20 Episode results for "Samuel Beckett"

Tattarrattat

Something Rhymes with Purple

34:49 min | 5 months ago

Tattarrattat

"This episode is brought to you by wind dot com. Hey wine lovers. Tired of staring aimlessly the wine. I'll go to wind dot com and pick the perfect bottle with confidence every time. Filter your search by price ratings and even chat with wine experts for recommendations. It's the world's largest wine store delivered to your door. Get fifty dollars off your first order by going to wind dot com slash modifying terms apply. This episode is brought to you by pay pal. These days choices are everywhere. Like for instance. The milk in your coffee. Would you like it from cow but tree. Everyone wants options and now your customers have a new option in the way they pay with paypal in person. Just generate your unique. Qr code in the pay app for them to scan and start accepting pay pal in person today learn more at paypal dot com slash us slash get qr code. Hello i'm welcome to this week's episode of something rhymes with purple the podcast the word nerds but also anybody who has ever stopped to think. I love that word. Or i really hate that word. I'm susie dent. I work on the program countdown. I also dabble in dictionaries pretty much all the time and with me. Is mike wonderful percents. I'm friend john's frederick hijaz. It's good to be with you. We haven't met in a long while. And i would like you to be the first person that i hug. But you wouldn't want to hug me right now. Because i've got a cold a stinking cold call and i didn't know how you manage this because i'm looking at you screen but we trashing little bit before we came on and i now have a sore throat. It's the part of personality. My wife has been saying for me for years. You know marvelous jobs but just tone it down. A bit. remind spa- people you don't give them the full thing every time but i'm so keen on you susie that i've been breathing into the microphone. Has been going down the line. And i'm so sorry. It's the kind of illness equivalent of an echo. Praxis and echo. Praxis is the center prices. By which if someone you orleans then immediately infectious and you you have to you as well I didn't quite how that works for sore throats but yes literally just come on. i think it's all psychosomatic what we ought to talk about this week. Well every now and again we like to shine the spotlight on one person who has contributed greatly to To our language. So we've we focused on george orwell. Haven't we adopted. Johnson of course charles dickens and jazz. Ut's of weeks ago. Someone who i'm going to be completely honest about. I have not read very much of asshole. Which is a polling really because he has made an impact in a very sort of strange slightly tangential way he has made an impact on our language and you will find many of his words in the dictionary. But i wouldn't say many of them equally was we would use every day but you know so much more about him than i did. I'm going to sit back and listen today. We're going to talk about james. Joyce one of my favorite words that he came up with his smile's smoke s. l. e. s. m. i r. k. Which is a cross between a smile and a disdainful smirk. A smile smirk. He did have an amazing way with words. James joyce we are so blessed we who speak and read the english language that island exists because island has given us some of the greatest wittiest profound exciting writers. If you like the theater as i. Do you love the plays of sheridan and oscar wilde. And bernard shaw three. Great irish playwrights. James joyce also wrote a play exiles but he's most famous for his novels and i do not only because i did him for a level and a level and i dug up my notes and i thought i might begin since you know so little about him by just reminding you and everybody else who james. Joyce was james. Augustine allah wishes joyce great name ball on the second of february eighteen. Eighty two Same date second of every one of my daughters. She's called site through won't give her an interesting name and he died on the thirteenth of january nineteen forty one novelist but born in dublin. Where his father and his is relevant to his stories somebody went around collecting the rates. It was educated at a jesuit college and he became captain of school. He then went on to university college. Dublin he had a great imagination and a great mind. He started naturalist and symbolic symbolist literature. In paris he married a lady called nora barnacle in nineteen. Oh four when he was surely. Isn't it great namen. She again important to his writing nor is fascinating name barnacle an even better name in some ways and he left island and then lived on the continent teaching languages at trieste and in switzerland the more than ten years and living abroad is is relevant again to his writing one of his devotees who helped him with his writing and also is a great irish writer. Samuel beckett also contributed to the language though. He wrote mainly in french and then translated his blades back into english. Anyway back to joyce's first. Publication was a volume of lyrics poems and songs called chamber music and really he becomes famous and we begin to recognize him through his short stories. Dubliners and that was published in nineteen fourteen. And that's in a way a very good with which to start stories about dublin. And the book. I did at school and this is how most people listening to this to be introduced to him portrait of the artist as a young man. It's a biographical not and that came out in nineteen sixteen but his fame on the book that i have read many have tried to read an abandoned. It i don't pretend that. I've understood it all even understood any of it really. It's an avocado. Unisys was published in paris because of the censorship elsewhere. It was reset six times by the printers because joyce kept rewriting it every time he got the proofs but eventually yes. What did you james. Joyce the misprint your book would have been treated as a great original new words anyway. When eventually it was published the first printed copy on his fortieth birthday and one critic at the time described as the greatest novel of the twentieth century. While another said it was the foulest book ever print that we have to talk about how scatalogical he is because it made a huge impact. For that reason. Well didn't it. I think unisys is a little bit like tristram shandy. It's the book that you take on your summer holidays because you are finally going to read it and you never quite get round to absolutely. I still haven't finished warren peace. Nevermind ally sheriff's don't do proosed yet. Bruce seventy exactly the films. They they help us through a and people have tried to make things like you to seize in into films. But you're right. The language was banned in medical nineteen thirty three when a judge ruled that one many places it is somewhat emetic new. Does it tend to be aphrodisiac. And the story deals with a single day in dublin and it is amazing. Let's begin to explore some of the words that he uses and have some fun with those. But i will just share with you. My favorite samuel beckett story because it gives you a good impression of what joyce was doing with language beckett. The man who wrote waging forgotten was a younger person and helped joys in his writing he would dictate to beckett and becky would rides down and once or twice he was dictating a bit of finnegans. Wake and other great works. And in the middle of one of the sessions there was a knock at the door which beckett didn't hear and so joyce said come in and beckett wrote that down and afterwards joyce was rereading what becky did written down and said. What's this come in and said you said that. And joyce thought for moment and then decided let it stand so he was willing to see. Coincidences a collaborator. So i just need to worry too much. Somebody knocks at all. He says come in becket rides down as part of the book and it stays in the book so we can be quite relaxed in ways. So let's choose. Let's let let's look at some of the words. I mean he's most famous. I think for a hundred let a monster of a word. That appears in finnegans. Wake that begins by bob dying talk. I can't even do it. People will have to look it up or even read finnegans wake. Do you know about this word yet. Well it's it's supposed to be representation at the thunderclap that accompanied the fall of adam need so it Poster guess sounding frantically ominous and and heavy and powerful bass. Got bronco in it. Which of course is greek for. Thunder is gonna sun in the middle and it's got a certain look at the end which sounds very norse like and he much thunders viking. So it's a very clever word camera pronounce it. No no chance. If you it's one of those words you'd have to break down into ten parts and then you probably could. Because i think in the middle that i can see after bronco there is tornado. Which is the french fall thunder. isn't it it absolutely. Is the italian duo. No is in there. And the japanese cami nadi the most famous of the ten equally enormous words joyce conjured up if fantastic word as say the. These are the ones that stick in the memory. If not on our tongues. Because i think we particularly in a us many the words became up with. You can admire that fla the Versatility there is one word that he does ease. Which i actually quite like and i think we could do with bringing back into the into the migration that's up. Do you know what that means. I think it means with your wife. Isn't it means busy. I mean being devoted your wife. Yes so am. I guess joyce absolutely out this was a husband dotes on his wife. Possibly slightly obsessively there is a single word that describes the reverse a woman excessively fond for husband is meritorious. But if somebody's not wasn't picked up really but he himself said my right does which i think is beautiful. What treaty mattis is that love to love love. Awfully what is interesting about his books. Is that the only ones are certainly the easy ones to read. But even the ones that you don't quite understand is rather like i don't understand music but my friend sheila hancock we'd be making television series where we got on canals together. She has got me some airpods and is making me listen to classical music and is trying to explain what it's all about to me and i'm not really understanding what it's all about but i'm quite enjoying it and that's a little bit. What the this music. In the language of james joyce who don't always have to understand it tonight. That is one of his words tat well. It's clear its version of rat-a-tat isn't it. Someone's of someone knocking and it goes into the guinness book of records. I think as long a single word pal andromeda us directly that he a. T. t. a. Double a. t. t. a. t. He's a strange character and he has a tough life because after his written ulysses next seventeen years he begins to go blind. And this is when he's working on finnegans wake this is why you have to dictate to samuel beckett. And the truth is the stories are comprehensible. The latest stuff is kind of musical and strange and some of it really is to me anyway. People and he's experimenting with language ends up quite sadly because during the second world war. He is in zurich and he dies there. I mean people say worn out by privations and worry so. His personal story has great joy and great unhappiness to and the language. Is i think more intriguing and interesting than changing our language. He does take a word like sausage though news. It hadn't been used before. Do you know about that. Yes he verbs it isn t so. We've often said on the podcast. Lot's of people blame for being on north american english to say this is terrible. Sign of degradation of is that we turn everything into verbs verbs into nouns as well. But she's been going on for a very long time. and yes. Sausage transformed the noun jay. Joyce transformed sausage into into a verb from the noun. Meaning this is according to the d. to subject a personal thing to treatment reminiscent of the manufacturer or shape of a sausage. Which i think is good isn't it. He's not obviously one of the world's i think he has introduced language or or given a new twist is botch-up. Yes similar to bug up. I think but bochum tells about that. Yes say botch up is being used for a long time. So i definitely didn't Coin that's been used. Since the sixteenth century meaning to repair early barge which is another english style at were to make a massive something but again joyce took that verb and we worked it into announce her botch up in ulysses is a total mess. A botch up of concert. A veritable chabot. Yeah what about chiseling again. He bit like shakespeare is and it's very difficult to know whether a particular writer actually coined the phrase or whether he actually popularized something was already in common currency or at least bubbling under. So it's possible that cheese alert had already been in use in irish line before he puts into print in the nineteen twenties. But it comes from a slime use of chisel to mean to fleece money from so a cheese ller. He uses as a nickname for a young child and ulysses. Now you can tell me this. Do you know whether she's lawyer is actually a flea surra. Swindler works for a criminal of some kind. No i guess i think it's just an expression it'll nickname. He gives him like a like a cheeky brat. Then that would be a little bit like a a wide because a lack which we now apply to. A comedian actually began as a a nickname really for mischievous child and it was a walk. Holter say fairly dark humor here. The idea is that the child is so mr vested they might whack. I hang from a holter that the news of gallows so Yeah it's it's a similar idea. I think one of his words that i think is quite useful is mono ideal can me about that. One well mono ideal basically means expressing conveying only one idea mona ideal and we live in a world where people who are sort of obsessed with one thing and bang all about to the exclusion of everything else and i find that slightly irritating. I think that's a a coinage of joyce's Mono idealism existed about really before him in the mid eighteen hundreds meaning kind of single mental fixation but mono ideal is a word that he came up with. I mean what he was really into. I think is what we call on a matter. Remind me onomatopoeia means and what are awesome is sort of sound almost. Isn't it itches. Am it's used of a word that represents through its sound the thing that it describes the formation of a word from sound that's associated with it like cuckoo. Aw sizzle at that kind of thing. One of my absolute favorites. I was aware of this one. Because it's it's possibly one of his. Most characteristic sentences poppies mic his mic. So that's the smacking sound of a person's lip up post post participants quite hard to say but the sentence he uses it in in ulysses absolutely brilliant if i can get through this flurry whispers to her whispering. Love words murmur clapping loudly. Papa smick plop slop. It is consciousness. Isn't it really. And it's verbal music extrordinary. Another of his automatic words is more now mall. no. I think i'm pronouncing correctly. Who who's he isn't hitter tennis m. r. k. g. a. o. m. k. g. It's his version of meow. It's you several times. And with a variety of spellings in ulysses it's mao the cat said loudly blinked out of avid shame. Closing is mewing plaintively in long showing him a milk white teeth. Oh and you see it works in. Its own way. He is an extraordinary person. Do know the word polluted polluted. Yes i do know that one because it becomes this one after the break because it is one of many many many many synonyms in the english language for being drunk. Good ring roundabout. It's time for a break out. Everybody we want to tell you about a new podcast from something else. Gold cheat. And here's a glimpse of what to expect. Have you ever wondered about those people in life. You don't play by the rules. Maybe it was the person you write the answers on the hand in an exam or the singer who lip sync every we have a name for these people we call them cheats keys to everywhere. People who cheat the system. Large-scale cheat social media cheese with fascinated by them and now with storyteller an ex philosophy professor also slade. Something else brings you cheat. The put cost a drums to dig beneath the surface and look behind the headlines. Chance to beat the cheats someone on the way. We have to ask ourselves archie. It's actually not so different from ourselves. Keat from something else fallen out on all podcast platforms. Yes cost you nothing. If you believe that you've been treated this episode is brought to you by hp plus in a world full of smart devices. Shouldn't your printer be smart to. It is with hp plus these printers know when they're running low so you always get the meat delivered right when you needed. Plus you save up to fifty percent on inc so you can print whatever you want as much as you want anytime you want. That is pretty smart. Get six three months of instant inc when you choose. Hp plus conditions apply visit. Hp dot com slash. Smart for details. Welcome back to this special upset. Do something rise with pepper where we are talking about the language of james joyce and the impact he had upon the dictionary. So just tell me about pulu. It polluted polluted than you're very very drunk and choice. Use this in dubliners. Which is his early works stories. That i do recommend and probably inspired. I think by the early word blue third. Yeah it's a kind of irish. Passion of bruce as it means being drunk. Does the lots of words like this. Oh my goodness so the brilliance cobra for jonathan greenaway says the waterfront the slang narrow but very very deep and he produces these mice fantastic timelines of particular themes. Within english and you can trace the different synonyms for that particular concept. Some of them are quite rucci will find the vagina penis all sorts of things in there. But when it comes to drunkenness off. The timeline is absolutely incredible and quite losses in the d. But i have to say slang furnishes lot more if you can. I would urge you to look. Jonathon green's about jonathan green. His timelines of slang offering free All available online as fantastic's line dictionary and Yeah i mean polluted billeted just two of many did james joyce invent the kwok q. u. a. r. k. So what is he. Is it for it in the physical sense as we would use it today in infinite he three clocks musters mark and it sounds to me just like a bit of rhyming fund that he's having three. Quarks musty mark show. He hasn't got much of a bark and show any he has. It's all beside the mark. this is from as well apparently a us physicist murray gell mann he coined it in nine hundred and sixty four but he did later associated with the use of quirk by james joyce so definitely influential there he said i'm employed the sand quoque for several weeks. This is the physicist speaking in one thousand nine hundred ninety three before noticing. Kwok in finnegans wake which had parise from time to time. The illusion to three quirks seemed perfect. I needed an excuse for retaining the pronunciation. Kwok despite the occurrence of mark bark mark and so forth in finnegans wake. I found that excuse. By supposing that one ingredient of the line three quirks us mock was a cry of three courts for mr heard in. Hec air with his. Gosh that's there's a whole lot going on that great so actually it's core than kwok. I think i'm going to check if you can hit us. If you look in the oxygen rich me you can click on audio and get a pronunciation. Say hey guy kwok they go and in the. Us quirk the regret. I use the word ring roundabout. Because i rather liked it before the break. And that's used in ulysses demean To completely surround something okay scribbled the hobble scribbled hall. Sounds like was horrible. That was the name joyce gave to one of his notebooks which jotted down names and words ideas turns of phrase anecdotes and the word has made its way into some english name for a rough notebook. I'm gonna drop that down in my scribble. I wonder whether he actually lingered over these confections and really thought very hard about how he put them in or whether they were just very spontaneous as a stream of consciousness which which is what we got a new disease. It's in the oxygen inch dictionary. It appears that the first entry one of his notebooks for finnegans wake and he uses it substitutes scribbled the hubble for an instance of scribbled hoy used with reference to school children working at the lessons and in fighting remember. I said it reminded me of hobbled the hoi that already existed since the eighteenth century and i love husky hoy because it describes a teenager particularly boy here is kind of Slightly difficult twilight stage between boyhood manhood and so is ever so slightly awkward. Hobbled away very good. I mean some of these words. I think because of the story. I told you about begged writing it all down. And when the when he said come in keeping it in the book. I think a lot of it. Just all came to him like he has the word. Unbe shoot back. It's an refund. Bumper sheet isn't my favorite time for an umbrella. And what's the origin of bumper. Shoop is that a victorian term for number one. Victory in the bumba is simply from umbrella. Bumba and the shoot bit. I think is it. Works written s h ot that is a variant of shoot as a parachute because it kind of looks like a parachute that you sort of have above your head. Said she is particularly north american. That when i love it and umbrella does that come from the word meaning. Yes major. Son shades Umbrellas but of course particularly in britain and many parts across the world. I was actually hearing a lot about the fund. The plumps in florida this week from the trump's destroyed you being heavy sudden unexpected samples of of rain but in in rain-soaked countries. The umbrella became a rain protection rather than the sun protection for which it was originally designed. I think what joys was doing is winning. needed a word. If there wasn't a word that came to mind he invented one. When snus is a good example of that. I like that when snus means what it says of someone will something. Witnesses is sort of the source. Point where where they came from the place from which it came once when mrs gorgeous and actually we have a letter from someone. He's also been pondering some new word creations in the spirit of joyce so. This is a letter from minnesota. And pull peterson who says we recently gave him. The bibliotheque clapped meaning someone who still books and he's wondering if there's a word for the opposite. His wife for example firmly believes that no one should own books. And the if you read a book you love you to give it to someone who you think would love it as well with no expectation of ever sing it again. Is there a word. Such a person and he suggests pool a biblical. Do or pan bebe list which A great i think and arlen pondering this little. And i can't actually come up with anything better that would be great puts out to the purple people and and asked if the mistaken coined a word that means somebody who loves to give books away In the language of easter island there is famously documented. By adam jacob one in his usual tingo the word tingo which means to borrow objects from a friend's house one by one until there's nothing left i think he may have thought that from his his predecessor. Howard rheingold is brilliant. Tin goes. But i can't think of anything for somebody who just loves to keep books away did well. I think we need to challenge the bubble people to bring out their inner james joyce and come up with an original word and if you are if you have read any james joyce particularly if you read the tough ones ulysses finnegans wake and want to put his right on any of this on tennis. What y'all favorite james joyce word is do communicate with us. I think my probably my favorite one is yu-gi-oh box yogi box. It just it's fun. He coined that word in your aziz and it did to describe the equipment and paraphernalia. Little spiritualists carries around with them. Hits his yogi boogie box. So if you can come up with a word for the door or your favorite word by james joyce or new word in the james joyce tradition do please communicate with us. And if you haven't read an james. Joyce give him ago and probably start. Where i started when i was a teenager with the easy stuff. The portrait of an artist as a young man. All the dubliners and depraved his legs with caution. We've had to another letter. Yes about vice. Yes this is ryan from it. He says i just had a random random word thought and of course you were the first people i thought. What are the route to the word vice. I'm thinking device in vice president to do with holding position of authority versus device associated with immoral behavior. And he says the same thing some would say So thank you ryan for that. Well the vice as invoice captain simply means a substitute for a not comes from the latin vic v. i. c. which means change and not also gave his vicarious which means that you are experiencing something through the medium of someone else so the idea of channeling authority three. Someone else will substituting being substitute for someone else. So that's the voice is vice captain vice president etc device. That is the sense of immorality has a different route. That's from the latin. Vrt are u. meaning vices. Well which gave is vicious that originally meant kind of sharing immorality if you like but it was extended to mean savage and descriptions of bad tempered horses and later came to mean spiteful and now it's actually even stronger it kinda goes against the tide of many english words where they lose their power. This one is that she gained Over time and finally there's also the tool sent his well the voice. That's a kind of a screw or a winch. That again is different. Showing just how many journeys all advocacy makes that comes from the latin vetus via it is which means vine and that's because of the spiral look of the tool the spiral grace of great tendrils or my favorite letter. The week comes from one of our regular. correspondents professor. marc laviolette. who is in about. He has a great name. And here's a great job in the department of mechanical and engineering at the royal military college of canada in kingston ontario. And it's appropriate for this part of the podcast. Because he rides shawny the collective noun for three vocabulary. Words suggested weekly by english lexicographer. Susie dent an aimed at improving. Elocution and writings is a trident brilliant. Isn't actually thinking of that yet. Very dry dent. What is the origin of the word. Trident in fact we missed. Three three toothed really so you have to remember the content sent to and possibly my ancestors had quite permanent teeth. Alternatively it might be topographical to dent in in yorkshire. But yeah it means tooth so it was a three pronged. Fish spare wasn't it that poseidon And born by britannia three teeth. They said try again whether you are a trio and so have you got something we can get our teeth into. Have you got a trio of interesting words to share with us. This week's yes. I have a dialect word today from devon in britain which describes you if you in a state of nervous apprehension. I seem to spend my my life in that we were talking about being on tenterhooks. In the state of nervous apprehension you can say your twitter t snip. Twitter t snip snip. That's a little slow slightly. joyce were self snip. Yeah it is now. I think if you remember one of my trees for a little while back was a spin drift which is one of my absolute favorite english words and spend spendthrift is the tang of the season discouraged by the a you know sometimes you can taste on your lips. That salty tying the see but if the see is particularly whipped up by the wind producing a spin drift. It is spew. Mustn't spew mustn't means frothy or foam link. Spew mustn't will. I think that is worthy of james. Joyce to spew message and finally a gallimore free. I think some people will be will be familiar with this. One and gallup simply hodgepodge or jumble or a bit of a mass and it comes from the french. An unappetizing dish made of all sorts of different ingredients is strange concoction gallimore. Free hodgepodge exactly what. What is the yes. Indeed the joys went up but what is a hardwoods hodgepodge. Come from and hodgepodge hodgepodge right you know. We need to return to food. And i'll talk about them because they're so many different words that for a complete mess that are related to food. So leave hodgepodge with me. Good we'll come back to food will come back to you very shortly. I'll give you one more. James joyce story and then oppo him a short poem by somebody who was a a friend of his and also rather strange person who ended up pretty unhappily but this is my favorite story. A young man comes up to him in zurich and says to james. Joyce may i kiss the hand. The wrote ulysses which joyce replied no. It did a lot of other things too and now the poem. And i thought i'd do today by ezra pound controversial putt strange man. Eighteen eighty five thousand. Nine hundred seventy two. And he was a friend and collaborator of james. Joyce times and the is simply for lines and the days are not full enough on the nights unfold enough life slips by like a field mouse not shaking the grass such peaceful times excellent. Well thank you. Sorry i was just wondering that one. Thank you for listening as ways. Please do recommend this to friends if he likes us. Better still get in touch purple app. Something else dot com something else for him to purple something rises purple as well as something else. Ramsey purple is something else production. It was produced by laurence facet with additional production from harriet wells. Steve ackerman mcleod j. bill and plop himself. it's golly.

joyce james joyce Joyce beckett Samuel beckett james Susie dent dublin frederick hijaz unisys Augustine allah jesuit college nora barnacle paypal becky sheila hancock Hp paris tristram shandy
Anti-Oedipus 2021 Chapter 2, Section 3 - The Connective Synthesis of Production

Deleuze and Guattari Quarantine Collective

1:54:39 hr | 7 months ago

Anti-Oedipus 2021 Chapter 2, Section 3 - The Connective Synthesis of Production

"I'll just discordant ivan so think all of you for joining us or the blues and guatieri quarantine collective reading of anti oedipus. We are in our second reading. We're calling it. Anti oedipus twenty one because we are cheeky. I guess today we're gonna be reading section to hurt. I believe it's three two three. Which is the connective synthesis of production. We left off last week reading about the three texts. The freud in their major critique of freudian psychoanalysis and now they're moving into what they believe is the function of the unconscious machine. That is the confidence and how it works from here out. It's really going to get very specific and it is really fun. This is the stuff. I really dig. So but i'll dive in right now. With the beginning of the connective synthesis of production. Given the syntheses of the unconscious the practical problem is that that of their use legitimate or not and of the conditions that define use of synthesis as legitimate or not take the example of homosexuality though it is something more than an example we noted how in produced the famous pages of sodom and gomorrah cities of the plain interlaced to openly contradictory themes the fundamental guilt of the occurred races and the radical innocence of flowers the diagnosis of edible homosexuality with a mother fixation of a dominant depressive nature and sadomasochistic guilt was quickly applied to produced in a more general way. Still some critics were too quick and discovering contradictions either in order to declare them irreducible or to resolve them or to show that they were merely apparent. According to preference in truth there are never contradictions. Apparent or real but only degrees of humor and inasmuch as reading itself has its degrees of humor from black to white which it evaluates the coexisting degrees of what it reads the sole problem is always one of allocation on a scale of intensities that assigns the position and use of each thing each being or each scene. There is this and then that and let's make do with it too bad. It doesn't suit us. Where do we start when proust's is talking about sodom and gomorrah what he's really talking about then right as like the the the deceptive nature behind the signs that we share with each other because they they imply and show us the existence of an entire world of that person that we don't take part in where the signs are coming from that we then have to decipher like so. He's saying like like sodom and gomorrah represent the to actual unknowable intern analyses of each of the communicating parties. Right is that what he's talking about like you know. That's how i kind of took it the the way he's talked about sodom and gomorrah or in the contradictions the sort of classic freudian way of looking at a A person believes these few things as let's call them whole objects and they have these inside of them and there are contradictions and those contradictions are the things that causes to have issues. The the problems of sort of your internal systems and they're saying no it's there never contradictions apparent or real. It's about degrees of humor. And kim has a a great Link that he posted a called humanism which is not necessarily about all all the deceptive are here from preussen signs all the deceptive signs emitted by a loved woman converged upon the same secret the world of good maura a kind of a priority that jealousy discoveries because the world expressed is always award that excludes us even when she gives us a mark of preference. So that's that's kind of what he's bringing up here right we interpret but at the end we come up against a sign of good. Moral is something that we a world we cannot enter in which the other person lives so I mean if i can just interject for a second that that sort of ideas in the tail right with with ending where you can't look back at the city at as it's about to burn then you look back and you know you turn into stone and this is recapitulated in the in the orpheus tale. Right it's the exact same thing with I can't remember Name but the The lady he loves her whatever as they're about to walk out of hell can't remember who looks back with timur her. Thank you and And yeah it's like this This world that you can't look into that you can. And and i don't know if it's necessarily about the sublime this is a point about the sublime in And shelling makes this point about the sublime and schiller to That it's this limit to what's reasonable but at the same time it completes ones like aesthetic and moral education. Whatever to be able to to to know about these limited experiences one of them being able to fully disclosed another person's universe a bit careful here though because what we're saying might them that very well may apply to preussen signs. I think this first paragraph talking hawk roost uses two contradictory themes a how. There's not actually a contradiction between them. And so there's a there's a point there which is going to tie back to like what they're dealing with this first paragraph and the such right Which is going to be. How do we know. Or how do we not even. Just how do we determine. But what Happens The use of the synthesizer illegitimate right. What are the conditions for an illegitimate and legitimate use. And if it's not going to be in terms of contradiction right so i if what defines legitimacy is not contradiction but conditions right. That seems to be the big move. They're making right here. So you go back to like example of proust's on was bringing up and even Where brooks and ken were taking that with freud right. So there's a way in which psychoanalysis will use this to resolve contradictions right in how Psychoanalysis is going to be under scrutiny in the section for diligent. Use of the three syntheses right so in resolving the contradictions and proust's through the sado-masochism and the mother aspect. There's going to be an i think what they're driving a zambian use the synthesis here with could be the that is still foyt also vote buca jokes jewish jokes in relation to unconscious so is still decline humor employed and what. He applies to delay of the encore inches. I think is just Unconscious which is The royal hit will for richfield for floyd's Going just yet there. I suppose because in jokes in the deletion to the unconscious that has just spoken. Elation people have to verts synthesis beach refined humanistic. Vich fee gets which is part of the unconscious. So i think it's. It's not yet the diversion floyd it's just Bringing a polarity to it by making it about this or death which is difficult fence sentiments because shorter also wrote about the phenomenology and the nod existence of things relation of the person to existing objects which also came forward in the of about disorder that which relationship bit people have if the tivoli to the objects in the world So that's It's it's still of course that's my baby. Continue one of the things. That's important if you have not read preuss. We probably should explain the scenes that they're talking about the handful of pages that they're referring specifically do because no one has yet the main character the narrator inside of the fourth book of in search of time is A hanging out in this amazing orchard with these gorgeous flowers all around him. It's the duchesses flowers. I think And he's watching them get pollinated b.'s. Going between and he's very the tone and the way he's describing it he's talking about. Is this very natural simple beautiful process and then he comes across two men who are having sex in the area. He's able to see them as well. The tone shifts decidedly not super hard. It's intended to be a little bit open. But that is the specific moment they're talking about. Is that juxtaposition between on the one side is they say the flowers radical innocence. Where even though. We're observing the flowers having sex which we are. It's not how we know it. But that's what's happening. And then there's this hyper base act of as they're referred to in the novel homosexuals. As the the cursor races are also having the two guys are over having sex in another place in the area and it seen as this interesting sort of everyone's got a lot of interpretations that's the scene they're talking about. The difficulty is that that scene has a lot of interpretations. Which has i think what they're referring to hear a beckett. For example one point said that it was. What did he say. I have the quote up on my screen. Somewhere samuel beckett Said flower and plant have no conscious. Will they're shameless. Exposing their genitals and so innocence are proust's men and women. they're shameless. there is no question of right and wrong. Which is something. Very beckett Conversely the entire scene is where people started to assign and say that obviously pushed his latent homosexual. He's dealing with these things because he doesn't have a good relationship with this. If you look through the books you could see. He has terrible relationships with the law with men with all of that. So it's obviously his father like this. This was this is how a lot of people interpret these things. I'm definitely did around the time of this Especially so. I think they're doing this as more of a direct response to me. They're doing. It is a direct response to The critique that a lot of people have of like basically hyper simplifying a lot of what was done inside of preuss book by grabbing the whole objects putting him in relation directly to them triangulating his place and then saying oh this obviously says This obviously says the things we need it to these other things. Oh yeah no. They don't work for our theory but fuck them. We don't care which is their last line here. There is this and that. And let's make do with this and too bad. If it doesn't suit us is kind of that last bit array. It's it's actually simple because if you few seemed perspective of homosexuals dental of course the flour is preferred Like beckett's suggests a that Because like when you make love you make the older boosts in your world. I assume that's the same for homosexuals as sexual and vin you right. It's expected of you of close Have not do you. You don't have to expected of selma sexual issue. Don't make the flower show ruled but you have its own sexual into heff. Deflowers which of two separates ding sue. So it's of course because they have human because flowers can be uncoupled. They They to look at disorder deaths. Because it's shorted since of humanity. Bits of course is still the difference because like a flower can throw off and love is to the human condition so the loving homosexuals are making are basically taking his wife thing exposing its two Maybe an would ball sentiment of course if you eat it that way. But they disagree on that they say no don't dis- seen By homosexuals because the flowers are there and the have the same value you could also as you were onto more feisty flowers make them part if your real just as much as two homosexuals. No i agree with all that. But i think specifically this paragraph is trying to talk specifically through the legitimate or illegitimate used to the syntheses and to them the illegitimate use is the separation triangulation based on whole objects within someone's unconscious and that's their argument kind of that they're making. I think i think all of what you're saying. Is i think spot on for the larger picture of what they're getting at but specifically for this paragraph because a lot of people haven't gotten as far as a you have in this book so it's just a specific thing they're kind of pointing at is That moment and some critics were too quick and discovering contradictions. Either in order to declare the may reducible or to resolve them or to show they were merely apparent according to preference That is that's the specific thing they're laying critique which. I think. I'm going to apologize for interrupting. Do to move on joe of to the next paragraph because they think someone what you're saying is also in there. I'm just happy you with me. That's all it happens sometimes. Don't worry in this regard. It is possible the tra- loose course. Admonition is prophetic quote. A lot we care about our old grandmother you little shit for what does take place in in search of lost time one. In the same story with infinite variations. It is clear that the narrator sees nothing. Here's nothing that. He is a body without organs or like a spider poised in its web observing nothing but responding to the slightest sign to the slightest by britian by springing on its pray. Everything begins with nebula. The statistical holes outlines are blurred molar or collective formations comprising singularities distributed haphazardly. A living room a group of girls landscape then within these nebula or these collectives sides take shape series are arranged persons figure in this series under strange laws of lack absence a symmetry exclusion non-communication vice and guilt next everything becomes blurred again. Everything comes apart but this time in a molecular and pure multiplicity where the partial objects the boxes the vessels all have their positive determinations an enter into abberant communication following a transversal that runs through the whole work an immense flow each partial object produces and cuts again reproduces and cuts at the same time. More than vice says proust's it is madness and its innocence. That disturb us if schizophrenia is the universal great artist is the one who scales the schizophrenic wall and reaches the land of the unknown where he no longer belongs to anytime any meal. You any school. As i was saying joe i think some of what you're saying in here you were. It comes back in this paragraph. I think In really crisp way the specific thing. They're talking about here and they will get into it again later. We will spend a lot of time. Discussing this is The way that they're talking about the molar The molar items the collective formation comprising singularities When we talk about innocence or a garden or house it's a large conglomerate of a whole shitload of things inside of it. We see that we say that it's a great idea so we'll call it a whole object of but it's filled with divisions once we look closer at the house we begin to separate things out. This is the bedroom the living room the front door the aviary if you have one of those under why fucking frog about aviary. I was reading comic book last night with one. What the fuck is wrong with me yet. You have these moments these things that you're able to see a new. You begin creating divisions and as you do that you actually if you go far enough. I think is what they're saying here that you end up getting once again blurred because things are blurry when i say house where does a house end and another one begin the we in order to know that we have to divide things up further well. The house has the yard. So does that one well. This one has has offense. Where is it divided in order to find that line jennifer providing but if you keep dividing you actually pass through blurry again in order to get to what they are calling partial objects the the molecular the pure multiplicity of everything the little bits of things that we can't even necessarily directly describe and talk about these partial objects themselves are this bedrock of things The molecular it's beautiful movement from muller to molecular and the explanation here and my far off. No i think you spoke told in my Visions i i just get up to the negative study book. I'm reading. i doubt which i think. It's this defending nice. If you let me quote it one seconds it's also an opposition. And i think it's also a mola molecular position. So i of the f. to molecular mess of fishy gay contact with the of black skin ching noise from the dick action of mass of fishy gray but what it does not excited monkey. Coaching the mullet monkey screams. So this is like fairly descriptive or what is underneath. Educating like if you sometimes maybe people can identify this sometimes two thirds black sort of distance yourself full. Editing and your goal ruled is not goal. It's simply not a die defect which you actually wants to it. The activists we have flight. Let's say the flowers the flowers which who want to interactive which you can't get there because it's all black at. This is the difference between the molar in the molecular vetter molecular that is like the the blackness that you take everything in what so whole world is basically this shape. This one's shape risk in immediate in in in in like an be says an immediate seat on the other hand you will. Expert won't piece of this ruled with like this lamp this computer or device Debt is a the molar vich. Who can't always get the skis. All i'm not sure That he fits in this situation. But i thought it was nice to Johnny and at the to dismiss that's Yeah sure i you know we got asked. What is the context of a lot. We care about our old grandmother. You shit so. It's been too long since i've read proofed. I'm currently reading all of it. I haven't gotten to that point yet and the versions i have don't have the literal translation so not able to directly find it. I think someone's gonna tell me. I'm really fuck it wrong. I think it's from the second book. the character not. I'm going to mispronounce everything now. Scarred i want to say i've been reading mouse. Guard the comic. So i wanna say my now scarred The way that he talks and screams it. People is like this really interesting like bursts of screaming at people in calling them little shits. He has one person who's specific second volume of in search of lost time. I'm sorry The whole series of the whole thing this book to There's a huge climax with nas guard where he basically just loses his shit and screams you little shit blah blah blah. How a lot of good. It's done me you little shit. I think it's in the context of that. But i'm not. I'm not at that point yet. Literally i'm like two weeks away so i'll be able to answer that soon k. Sorry if anyone knows that book better this would be the time to jump in. So i found the section of spy searching the word shit which is actually in this book quite a bit I'm gonna read just a little bit apart. I don't think it's the grandmother scene but it's gotta be the same character. If i've learned one thing over these years which seems to me immensely important particularly in an era as ours. Overflowing with mediocrity. It's the following. Don't believe anybody do not believe you are somebody because you are not. You're a smug mediocre little shit. Do not believe you're anything special. Do not believe you're worth anything because you aren't. You're just a little shit. Keep your head down and work you little shit goes on for a few like a page. They think it's from that i'm thinking from that nazi. Does anyone have questions on the molar or the molecular or anything else to add to this part. Yeah a little bit to that. So i think what you you've been saying about Especially near your take on. The first paragraph is really well Well poised here sir. We're seeing how what's going on between these two aspects that there is not contradiction here even though we might question right the roles guilt in that on this one. I just that we might question the relationship of guilt and the flowers to the denies job pointing out how to juxtapose. But the relationship isn't one of contradiction right so it's not that kind of problem. So what we see going on with the narrator in phnom there where they're taking prudish right now is the narrator is going to act as the body without organs here Right so there is the narrator. Seasonal thing here is nothing. He is a body without organs like spider poised on its web. We know where they're going with us. the thing i wanted to point out here is with what they're laying out here in terms of the molecular in the molar right so they're showing us how the body without organs at one level has this Transit iowa transitionary phase serves as a limit between the two right. And we're seeing. How on the in the molar we have the some statistical aggregation we have these collective formations comprising singularities distributed haphazardly. Right so there's not like an organization From like a rationale here we're seeing how things kind of Take shape haphazardly us. There were great. The cemetry strange was black lab at the at the molecular level. We see how the narrator plays in with different arrangements and connections right where we're seeing the flows being cut by the partial objects and Differentiated in that manner. So this is helping skill scale seen here of this Hobbies how these syntheses function under these conditions. And i'm going to actually jump to the next paragraph because it continues with examples of as a quick little preface. it's important before. I read this More preuss there's a lot of proof coming We will at some day do proven science. Which is the reason. I'm rereading all of this book. But albertine is the narrators. I kiss someone else has to have read this. This fucking thome of stories. I wanna say albertson's first kiss. It's this big deal. It's actually really beautifully written Really beautiful Beautifully beautifully written Some of us were too busy cleaning our rooms products. Yes well not everyone. Everyone has to be a lobster someday. all right. I'll give it a read. Such is the case in this passage. The first kiss given albertine albertine face. Is i a nebula barely extracted from the collective girls then. Her person disengages itself through a series of us that are like distinct personalities with albertine faced jumping from one plane to another as the narrow leaders lips draw nearer cheek within the magnified proximity everything falls apart. Like a face drawn in sand. Albertans face shatters into molecular partial objects. Well those on the narrators face rejoined the body without organs is closed nostrils pinched shut mouth filled. What is more their entire. Love tells the same story from the statistical nebula from the molar entirety of men. Women loves there emerged the to occur and guilty series that bear witness to the same castration with two non super imposable sides the sodom series in the comoro series each one excluding the other on the scene where he kisses. Albertine is very much about that the way that it's described and if you have ever had a first kiss and if you haven't you will someday but if you have it's very much that intensity if you think of the moment to moment it's help bruce describes it. It's really vivid as he's looking at her he sees down. She's she's gorgeous and he's comparing her very much two other girls and all of that. He sees this sort of c- of girls with her as the single face within it as he gets closer it becomes just her as he gets even closer the description of the smell of her skin in the way that her moves or her cheek moves her lips. In how the trump like very very very partial objects. And so this is again a transit to help explain when we moved from molar molecular and the way to think about through all of those earlier. Kale michael asks. Why do they say boxes. For partial objects the way to think of partial objects is as opposed to full ones. It's very easy. Partial objects are irreplaceable in and of themselves. That's kind of their constant sort of thing that they keep saying that they're mocking people believe these things are irreducible and they're not The the lips is not a singular thing. It's it's a matter. It's a huge collection of a lot of little partial objects that are connecting and disconnecting and firing off. In all kinds of stuff is going to describe. The goal is to try to find how deep those go because if we can still divide it. It's kind of not a partial object. Still but i do want to continue to experiment. Listen one has a thing because it's about to finish off this point nicely. I just want to say that it's important that the gestation is Is in the molar. So it's it's you you're actually guest rate. Innovate it's not like a partial gestation. So i just wanted to say that. I think i'm not sure but they think it's definitive did saudi. I'm i'm having oliveira around. It's molecular gas molecular and. It's not molar eight. Think it's cloud to book this way. So maybe some good. Correct me. If i'm wrong but i think that's important Often easy way to identify with castration. That it's always the molecular castration. Always impinges on the molecular but castration isn't necessarily something that exists in molecular that it is a molar concept and it as a thing but but anti production which they will get into it. Some point is produced in the molecular like anti production essentially kind of plays that role. But it's castration. As a thing doesn't exist at the molecular level the effects of it do that's mostly through a lot of other complicated stuff so we'll get to that that's not only in the first syntheses for right now. Let's try to. I'm trying to stick with it. So but thanks for explaining because i had to that so I i like your explanation books. It's a it's this is all complicated. Shit don't worry next paragraph this is not all however since the vegetal theme the innocence of flowers brings us yet another message and another code. Everyone is bisexual. Everyone has to sexist but partitioned non communicating. The man is merely the one in whom the male part and the woman the one in whom the female part dominates statistically so that at the level of elementary combinations at least two men and two women must be made to intervene to constitute the multiplicity in which the transverse communications are established connections of partial objects and flows. The male part of a man can communicate with the female part of a woman but also with the male part of a woman or with the female part of another man and yet again with the male part of the other man etc. Here all guilt ceases for cannot cling to such flowers as these in contrast to the alternative of the either or exclusions there is the either or or of the combinations and permutations where the differences amount to the same without ceasing to be differences. It's just want to continue expert off. Because i know what people are wanting to talk about it. Continues this real quick. We are statistically or morley heterosexual but personally almost sexual without knowing it or being fully aware of it and finally we are transsexual in an elemental molecular sense. So really find interesting set aligns. It's going to be a whole thing to discuss. That is why proosed the first to deny all editorializing interpretations of his own interpretations contrast two kinds of homosexuality rather to regions only one of which is edible exclusive and depressive the other being an edible schizoid included and inclusive quote for some doubtless those whose childhoods were timid the material kind of pleasure. They take does not matter so long as they can relate it to a male countenance. Well others who sensuality is doubtless more violent give their material pleasure certain imperious localisations. The second group would shock. Most people buy their vowels. They live perhaps less. Exclusively under saturn's satellite four in their case women are not entirely excluded but those in the second group seek out women who prefer women women who suggest young men indeed they can take with such women the same pleasure as with the man for in their relations with women they play for the woman who prefers woman the role of another woman and at the same time. A woman offers them approximately what they find. The man feel like someone's going to be just way better verse in a lot of this stuff than me. That one's a one thing that strikes me about this again. I'm reading through proof in science right now. is he'll he will make the the series of good maura the the realm of the beloved and of sodom the realm of the lover. And then here he saying that like each person will have like internal male and female. That communicates has other person's internal male and female so like we are each having both of those series inside of ourselves but they don't even communicate with each other inside of ourselves so like the the the world that were excluding the people who love us from is different than necessarily the signs that we use when we are like loving them back and being excluded from their world. I think that's been talk about. I mean this is like the designing machine nights. So is it outside to budi without or goods just a small Adjustment to what you are because the was. Yeah i might have used a wrong word or two. I'll i'll i'll totally admit that role. It's it's of course. Sites is Innovate bits not from the body without organs. That would i would agree with you there. I'd give you that point. I should have said like on the surface of or the. It's so today. I i like this. It's a really interesting set of paragraphs. But again i think ben. I think really put that nicely. It's the the reduction of things in the ability for things to be. Basically partial objects and desiring machines connecting changes how we think about how these groups or what desire actually is instead of the unconscious and how it operates instead of the line at the beginning. We are statistically or molar hetero personally homosexual without knowing it being fully aware of it and finally transsexual elemental molecular sense. It's just very very spot on. I think view of how they see desiring machines working and i think how they operate through the rest of this as well as atp. And i mean certainly through princeton signs i f. This small anecdotes let me know all tied to face it could actually because It's kind of hard. Because it was like when i was in i think like the second date of elementary school so i was very small child. that will this I gator okay. Mom to school he was saying. Guess a divorce guy. And the guy's name was baer he enjoyed just wasn't like Feminine or editing. that's the thing that homosexual. Either you know it tells it like I like the nineties. And i don't take like sex change operations for taking bits. You've also like an advert or whatever evils it like into being a woman he just likes varying guess at assaults age you know and everybody accepted. Nobody bully tim or whatever because for him. It's search just go. it's such a y'all helps pay ca- tight it wasn't It's school -sidered. just devait. He he was for him. I it's of its dutch english. No sometimes Tackle for the. It's it's it indicates. The boy i'm making is that's the the like the Designing machines are organized within people can differ on very early age and I think Are spoke on. It's it's actually fairly strange. That this late in the ole sis developing well maybe not because previous Centuries for more of a skit debate with saudi. i just want to gift that small abuse of my mind. So maybe it's it's easier to visualize like a child's like being innocent and liking just partial stuff off the feminine and like instigating it in his psych in survey that it's a self evident that that was the word i was looking for. It's just it's just for him. Self evidence that he wore address and for all the people will stare for self evident. Also because you could see on his face you could see his gestures like if you were a man and you like of course of what they're saying here you focus on demand leauge arts like davor at ease in him you know if you look at him i think if he wore like just like benson a like you would think something is wrong with him with the guy. Yeah these people exist you who just are not like preferred because a child s no sexuality at but no and i think that the lines here it's towards the end they start Really touching into of as as michael brought out the Plato's stephanie's myth of the andhra jain and rajini The the nature that Apparently once upon a time all humans were round little just little pacmans with four legs like around little things That were do do's on one side women on the other and andrew. John were the other they were the ones from the moon and then ono We had to get cut in half and so the men who desired men were the men before. It's just. It's really hilarious myth. They're kind of talking that directions how they use the words towards the end because they are talking about as i would say Making the other person their world To combining the joining and it's why they say things like we are statistically had sexual at large like again the law law of large numbers. However personally we're actually homosexual because we are us like it's kind of the subject works And then at the elemental or molecular sense. We are kind of whatever is being desire. There's no such thing at the molecular level as man or woman that's not how it works at all in sort of their view of things and they get into this later partial objects don't have a it's not a man. Object of a penis isn't even man. Object the tip of addict isn't a man object or a woman object. It's just a partial object and so like being able to sort of step beyond that when we're talking about such things and desires. Is i think the real goal of this paragraph again trying to get us back to desiring machines and how they connect what is connecting that. It's not these ideas that are connecting partial objects. Sorry jack go ahead. I really like what you're saying. Because i think that's spot on I think that's really a we can compare with the platonic necessary. But it's a little bit different right like you're saying at the molar level. There's heterosexuality the either or of sexuality right. So we're seeing improved you relate such ear such value to a man or a woman right which is Looking at here countenance at the personal level. We can see it in that sense to right. Now you're saying broach like it's had a very personal relationship so you're kind of with you know there's a problem of identification there. Perhaps but the sorry. Go ahead as the you're spot on there that desiring machines what they're in that second sounds that molecular sensitive produced talking about here. You're spot on. They're not connecting for the sake of woman mother but that the transsexual nature is the functionality so the reason we can get the same from either war or war or is because there's not that distinction of male female because the partial objects can rearrange in the assemblage and connect differently in that first synthesis but at the molecular level is what's functioning there as i was like you know. How do i have sets the woman. Or if i'm going to do that. How do i related to the comments of a man right either oregon else I think some sort of Doubts which must be eater Basically sublimate to either the molecular or molar because doubts it. Let's say or no. No no we're talking about pure positive so the the way they were talking earlier is about how we have to divide in order for the millette. The molar to not be fuzzy. But at some point we reach another stage of fuzziness where things start blending together and becoming confusing that we start entering. The world of partial objects but partial objects are that of almost pure pot. There's there's not gaps in the same way that that there is literally anything in. that'd be if i can explain myself a little bit I met doubt in like the like Section of doubts. Which is i think a totally positive because it's like this could ghetto Essential part of ghetto. So i i made it I thought they did Maybe unclear at dot experts so he knows for for the this scene. There's a scene in seinfeld. That comes to mind. Whenever i read this where george costanza goes in for a massage. He thinks he's going to get a pretty girl. Because jerry just did and instead walks this big nordic blonde attractive guy and georgia's like naked and the guy starts massaging his legs and working up and then it fades away comes to later. Georgia's mortified slowly walking around like why what's wrong is like it moved. That's the joke is that he was aroused by the massage. She got from a man and now he's wondering if he's the whole episode is about him wandering his on sexuality. That's the kind of the humor of it again. Nineties but the point that i the reason i connect to this because it's the idea of oh it moved. Oh my penis was aroused. Oh i had sexual desire in this situation. It must be because i'm attracted to a man i must. That's not it. That's the whole point here is talking about is like moving beyond the idea of you being europeans being. Oh i'm attracted to that. It's like no it's partial objects for partial objects. Technically partial objects are all transsexual. It's not that you're attracted manual attracted to the way. This felt in the way. All of these things were connecting. It's much more complicated than that instead of just being the simple like. Oh yes. I'm just. I must be gay. And that's kind of their set up. I don't know if george necessarily would be happier knowing that he probably had some level of molecular transexuality. But like i think like his neuroticism is something. They speak to a lot of a lot of the stuff. I think that flows back to sort of georgia's neurotic shitty behavior. I think did that in general too but it's just this It feels like that's a lot of what they're talking about here. I think you're right about that. The only thing i would add is that's how gives we mentioned supplementation because we're dealing with the mole and the molecular right. I don't think we're gonna find that kind of like come. Summation is i understand occurs in relation to the superego which is going to take a desire right at. It's gonna condition with some sort of social norm now in very simple manner and the sub nation occurs where. There's a tension in the unconscious that the ego needs to release the ed but the superego is redirecting that so you've gotta find a way to To release the tension and a socially acceptable way or really a superego. acceptable manner. the reason. I don't think we're gonna see that. Here's because we're dealing with the syntheses the mole in molecular where we don't really have superego Or i'm not even sure that we have a big other per se regulating desire in the manner. We're going to especially as we don't really have the eagle in that manner. To begin with this is all like you know. This is all pre subject right. When i don't wanna see prince them but this is like preoccupied. Yeah and we don't even have the capacity to begun what you're right we're going to sell. Subjectivity is produced without really needing a fixed. I in that manner but is it. It's why that vr like statistically or in the eater or it's part of civilization and then it becomes like dynamically or personally it changes with before i think it's applicable and i think that that this will they meant to eat or order. I have different desolation. So he order. Whatever comes next so i disagree because of the functionalities here and because the Desiring productions not being. I don't think it's being sublimated by a superego. On the tensions that'd be released through a norm. I think what we're seeing instead is how the syntheses function in relation to the The more in the molecular right and we'll see later in chapter. Three hundred associates plays into and the creation of territories by. Don't think there's some really jack. Just real quick. I can just say i can say holy. Supplementation is not necessary inside of their version of the unconscious and desire because social machines can invest desire directly into the social field. There is no mediation required by freud supplementation. But it's like the saying the ecstatic at That they're saying that the sexual also so they take the opposite of death guide. So as i say. The give Densely won't for explanation for seconds they say Lakes typically heterosexual. The person levy are homosexual. And then the homosexual of course the motor molecular No no no no no so let me let me try one more time desire machines and make up everything. There is no secondary thing everything is only desiring machines in partial objects. That's it are grouping of things changes that the grouping of things is the molar so at the very basic level we only have partial objects partial objects have no homo or heterosexuality in fact they're essentially transsexual because any one of them can apply to any sex of any sort of thing depending on their usage. And how they join up with other things inside of concepts as those objects partial objects connect and the syntheses fire off the subject. The subject is itself aware of itself connected to itself encompasses its own. desiring machines. looks back on its body without organs can go fucking a. that's me. i like it. Part of that is whatever sexual organs that that person has an so naturally we are by the subject and as an individual and. I'm doing that in hard. Hard fucking quotes we are personally homosexual and then after that because we are basically statistically at this point we just look at the law of large numbers. Most people are not. Most people are hetero. Probably because i don't know some genetic thing or the fact that that's just kind of the averages as the time being because of social machines as they exist that there is no separation. The heterosexual is filled with partial objects. That are transsexual and is also personally homosexual all at once in a singularity. I think the thing is that his translations got static instead of statistic. So we're talking about the molder. He's rian in terms of like there's a fixity there which would sound like a superego right so it should be statistical because we're talking about how says desire machines on the molecular in the molar. We have the social machines. How these aggregated and there's a statistical distribution that would be. That would be a problem. Yes just assume if if if at any point translation says the losing lottery are saying thing is static. There's a fuck up in the translation somewhere like anyone who's like you know what they believe in is very specific static. Things that don't change. You can kind of assume that something's wrong. Generally i'm going to. But i think the next paragraph continues talking about what we're discussing here so i'm gonna continue into that. The opposition here is between two uses of the connective syntheses a global and specific use and a partial nonspecific us. In the first desire at the same time receives a fixed subject an ego specified according to a given sex and complete objects defined as global persons the complexity and the foundations of such an operation appear more distinctly if we consider the mutual reactions between the different syntheses of the unconscious following a given us. It is first of all the synthesis of recording that in effect situates on its surface of inscription within the conditions of this a definable in differential ego in relation to parental images serving coordinates other. Father there we have a triangulation that implies in its essence. A constituent prohibition and that conditions the differentiation between persons prohibition of incest with the mother prohibition against taking the father's place but a strange sort of reasoning leads one to conclude that since it is forbidden that very thing was desired and reality global persons. Even the very form of persons. Do not exist prior to the prohibitions. That way on them and constitute them anymore than they exist prior to the triangulation into which they enter desire receives it i complete objects and is forbidden them at one and the same time therefore it is indeed the same etta pull operation that lays the foundations for the possibility of its own resolution. By way of a differentiation of persons in conformity. With the prohibition as well as the possibility for its own failure or stagnation by falling into the undifferentiated as the reverse side of the differentiation created by the prohibitions incest by identification with the father homosexuality by identification mother. The personal material of transgression does not exist. Prior to the prohibition anymore than does the form of persons this is where we start getting they will be very clear about this later on but they axed early on and they will ask again. Reich's question about why do people desire fascism and they say. Often people say they were tricked tricking lying to them. Then they're telling them the other thing that's like no they also are tricked into oedipus not really the right way to look at these. Things are tricking people there because of they are global people being shoved into a place they kind of don't belong in the unconscious they naturally because of where they're at form desire in varied definable specific in triangulate ways. That's all. I read that paragraph. I really liked this paragraph. if you'll almost jump in go forth. I think you're kicking it off. Well there So we're seeing how the to zoos. Were seen the two uses of the connective emphasis right. We're seeing the molar use with global persons Fantasy global in specific use as opposed to partial nonspecific use. A i desire at the same time receives a fit subject an ego specify according to a given the sets incomplete objects to find his global persons. Read psalm one hand. We're seeing the first census or the the first kind of the first synthesis. There's twister for you how that relates to global persons how that relates to The the aggregations in that on the other hand we're seeing on the molecular side. How will works through partial objects. So we're looking right back into that. Last thing we saw where on one level we can talk about how. There's an either or distinctions. Actuality right without enables like heterosexuality but then we're seeing. How on the flip side the first synthesis. It doesn't necessarily work. Through the connections in that either-or hand is either-or and in the second. Some sales but some with these connections and with the differentiations of flows and the machine productivity. That's happening here to put her back in the first synthesis. Now that's not really taking place Intending for complete subject intending for global person's right or like large collectives that are sort of marginalized is i am. I suppose that's Like the station synthesis or like addiction synthesised to the education which is inbetween tangle of the hudepohl which is the insists prevention is in a form goat. So i think it's like Like the It'll magnets Gets the demystified Differ loses Lettuce it's it's it's it's become inept enact innovate because it's code so the would is there but it's it's not active at this a goat which is scribes in the relationship a ofter multi father and later on the sister or boulder. It's mythic if the code is important to note that it's got because it's not named but this between the production at the register legislation like a communicates in both i think it's earlier mentioned in the earlier Jobs and i just thought i shoot to share notes. It's great The last sentence most gird asked can we expand on it Rephrase talk about it the the last sentence the personal material transgression does not exist. Prior to the prohibition anymore than does the form of persons the way freud and psychoanalytic thought Believes that the oedipus complex works can please tell me where. I'm wrong here if i am is That the ego and the superego are essentially the interplay of it with the in there and between those three that is that is the sort of interplay of your unconscious. You exist as part of that you as a subject are sort of the rapper of these things and it's You are imminent to them. They're putting the steps before that they're saying look this subject to the person who The whole person the whole form of you doesn't exist in health long after this sort of transgression exists but actually even more so the person material of the transgression. The desire to fuck your mom doesn't exist. Prior to the prohibition because of the nature of how three syntheses work you actually get the prohibition it gets inserted because it's a demand for a whole object and appointing of desire to it as well as the demand that you don't that sort of goes hand in hand and because it's whole objects it's added to the body without organs and your desires hit that and the material of the transgressions that desire to actually do that thing doesn't exist until then because the subject and all these other things come long after so this is how they started taking down the idea of oedipus being this you know thing that is The innate learned an innate Sort of determinate of being human innate. And it's go right because it's instantaneous and it is known binary descents of so. It's it's judgmental It's it's it's not like a It's it's not yet the boo so. It's right no you'd person doesn't hear the taboo or the thing and go who. That sounds fun. I should break that rule. It's like know how it functions is by having these larger objects in these stories and these larger sort of things that we forced into the unconscious the way that the desire machines operate through this but actually the last sentence does go into the next pair of is there anything that We should go over here any questions. Any thoughts any comments so far. Because we're about to dive. Even furthermore into incest and oedipus because i mean who doesn't want that i mean we all do yes as we're going into those because we're talking about how the the two ways the connective synthesis are being used. It's important to point out to edit. This creates global persons in the sense ready conditions. How global persons will be created. So we see in reality. global persons form of persons. Do not exist prior to the prohibitions. That way on them and concert them any more than they exist prime the translation which they desire excuse me into which they enter desire receives its first complete objects and is forbidden them at one the same time. So the thing here. Is that the construction of oedipus in this manner actually plays into how the first synthesis is going to create Global person's right inmates that possible. We've got a condition here. We've also got that The first complete object. So like i think later on they're gonna walk the sound more but like a detached object so something like the mother where like there seems to be an object of desire. Now you follow me without at this here is making The form of global persons and perhaps even persons in this respect possible but also like making them actualising them. Yup and. i'm just going to dive into the next paragraph because it dovetails with that we can therefore see the property. The prohibition has of displacing itself since from the start it displaces desire displaces itself in the sense that the oedipus inscription does not force its way into the synthesis recording without reacting on the synthesis of production and profoundly changing the connections of this synthesis by introducing new global persons. These new images of persons are the sister and south after the father. And the mother. It has often been remarked. In fact that the prohibition existed in two forms the one negative having to do above all with the mother and imposing differentiation the other positive concerning the cistern requiring exchange. I have a moral obligation to take as a wife someone other than my sister and an obligation to keep my sister for someone else. I must give up my sister to. A brother-in-law received my wife from father-in-law. And although new stays stacy's what's the word there is my pdf broken stacy's is that the word new stacy's or relapses all right it's stacy's or relapse produced at this level such as new forms of incest and homosexuality it is certain that the edible triangle would have no way of transmitting and reproducing itself without the second step the first step elaborate the form of the triangle but it is only the second step that ensures the transmission of this figure. I take a woman other than my sister. In order to constitute the differentiated base of a new triangle whose inverted vertex will be my child which is called surmounting oedipus but reproducing. It as well transmitting it. Rather than dying. All alone incestuous homosexual and zombie great paragraph new movie brits incestuous homosexual zombie big traumas working on that right now. Action come on. It's time to be alive time too. Great a great summary again. They're going to continue through this as we're diving through because we're going to get into the familial versus the alliant in a very strong way as we hit chapter three so if any of that is wait. Why am i giving my sister away. What's this what's critique. They have a huge critique a gigantic one. They're not there yet right now. We're simply discussing the process of desire formation. How the partial machines attach how. We learn what those desires are. And i'm putting that in big that you can't see and how the subject is produced. That's what these next few sections are about. So we're not fully there yet but we're getting there but it's the two steps the form of the triangle the second step ensures transmission of the figure young. And we see here how oedipus. It's not a natural thing. There is a way in which the ad upon description. It can't just go straight to the second synthesis rates got to affect the first synthesis. So we see the production of the molar in the sunset as taking on the either-or distinction. Well as taking on the global persons of oedipus so received the father and mother for instance or the the wife sister here right the way that these global persons constituted here is affected by the edible. I guess we'll stick with inscription yet. One scripture i manor which affects how. It's going to work in the second synthesis and then back on the i. I feel like has some thoughts here. Sorry i i was talking and i was muted a go ahead it can if you have something right I will continue. Sorry i had to take care of a of headband. Somebody out which is not something. I have to do very often but occasionally it pops up. I will consider the next paragraph thus the parental or familial use of the synthesis of recording extends into a conjugal use or an alliance use of the connective syntheses of production regime for the pairing of people replaces the connection of partial objects on the whole the connections of organ machines suited to desiring production. Give way to a pairing of people under the rules of familial reproduction partial objects now seem to be taken from people. Rather than from the non personal flows that pass from one person to another. The reason is that persons are derived from abstract quantities instead from flows instead of a connective appropriation. Partial objects become the possessions of a person and when required the property of another person just as he draws upon centuries of scholastic reflection and defining god is the principle of the destructive syllogism cont draws upon centuries of juridical reflection when he defines marriage as the tie that makes a person the owner of the sexual organs of another person. One need only consult a religious manual of sexual kazu trie to see with what restrictions the organ desiring machine connections remain tolerated within the regime for the pairing of people which legally determines what may be appropriated from the body of the wife. Continue the next paragraph clearer still. Sorry go ahead jack before you do. Because i know everyone wants to read about kentucky lots the reference there is from his metaphysics of morals parwan so just like to point out. This is a really good example if people are ever like what is miraculous eating like this is it. The the partial objects now seem to be taken from people rather from the non personal flows that pass from one person to another like that. That's the example of adjusting miraculous from the process We just need to tie in. The body without organs are the societas. They're they're talking about here on like a like this social regime of of it right so these partial objects are seeming to come from other people. But like it's the same way they talk about like how it seems like capital is going to attract more capital because like it seems to be emanating from the body of capital whereas it's actually the partial objects that make up the flow. The decoded flows of desires which capital is appropriating for itself clearer. Still the difference in regime becomes apparent each time a society permits an infantile stage of sexual promiscuity to subsist where everything is permitted until the age when the young man turn submits to the principle of pairing regulates the social production of children. It is true that the connections of desiring production were found to comply with the binary rule and we have seen. We've even seen that. A third term intervened in this binary the body without organs that re-inject producing into the product extends the connections of machine as a surface of recording. But here no by universal process is in fact produced that would fit production into the mold of representatives. No triangulation appears at this level. That would refer the objects of desire to global persons or desire to usc checked. The only subject is desire itself on the body without organs inasmuch as it machines partial objects and flows selecting and cutting the one with the other passing from one body to another following connections and appropriations that each time. Destroy factitious unity of a possessive or proprietary ego and edible sexuality. It's a few great little lines in here. There is no by univocal process here there. Nobody by univocal process is in fact produce that would fit production at the mold of representatives. We are talking specifically about the regime of desire machines that they don't get split off. There is no woman desiring machine. This is the real way to start thinking about this and how these concepts play with each other and play with a in general psychoanalytic schizoid analytic theory. There is no such thing as women. Desire men desire. It's not how it works. There is no such thing as gay desire in that sense. Machines desire their partial objects connecting and producing itself over and over and over. Go ahead. yeah. I've got this affinity nice I think you gonna fifty mitch appreciate I think is funny fair useful. So that i go. There is no more an individual. Would woody was. Then that is an individual fishy. Was bruce is a means of the gatien. Do the group in boats the edited form of its own production that makes its best from one generation to the next. It is adaptable. Note that stations. That's brooke desire or aged in buses. I love oh. I know that's right. Yeah that's that's i think that's spot on. It's there is no again These are representations. These aren't desiring machines. We need to break them down. We must go further. He is basically what delusion guatieri are always saying to all these people keep breaking things down a little bit and then more than moore's like we must go further and to them it's the partial objects are that base level. And there's no edible partial object. That's not how it functions the oedipus. Oedipus doesn't like sit around and go. Oh here's a desire. You go that way now. You go towards fucking your mom. That's not it. It's oedipus gives us a series of representations and those representations are what shape and that's the representations of mommy daddy me Sister family nuclear family. These representations breakdown there the smaller part of that representation. And they're what sort of start messing with. Things said the triangle of oedipus which is the next paragraph. I'm just going to keep pushing forward. The triangle takes form in the parental us and reproduces itself in the conjugal us. We do not yet know what forces bring about this triangulation that interferes with the recording desire in order to transform all its productive connections. But we are able at least to follow abstractly. The manner in which these forces precede. We are told that partial objects are caught up in an intuition of precocious totality. Just as the ego is caught up. In an intuition of unity the proceeds fulfillment even melanie klein. The schizoid partial object is related to a hold that prepares for the advent of the complete object in the depressive phase it is clear that such a totality unity is posited only in terms of certain owed of absence as that which partial objects and subjects desire lack. Consequently everything is played out from the start everywhere. We encounter the analytic process. That consists extrapolating a transcendent in common. Something but that is a common. Universal will purpose of introducing lack into desire in situating and specifying persons an ego under one aspect or another of its absence and imposing an exclusive direction on the disjunction of the sexes. I will leave a moment for everyone to take a moment. Ask questions say what you need. The only thing. I wanted to point l. We're taking on awkward pause so earlier this the only subject is desire itself on the body without organs inasmuch as machines partial flow partial objects inflows selected name. Cutting the one with the other passing from one body falling connections inappropriate and that each time destroyed vaccine a possessive or proprietary ego and apple sexuality. So we're seeing here how that So i in spain this idea of the subject being three syntheses and desire and how these function and take place right. One of the moves are making this paragraph is to expand on that last point in the preceding which is that the partial objects don't resolve lost or talapity right nor do they lack a totality. Can you say more about that. Last part oregon next true. So we're seeing with global persons Yanni want any that. So let's just put it in the very simple aspect of the breasts. Mammoth so we're talking about the breast. There is a sense in which we can talk about the breast as a fragment of a woman's body right. There's a sense in which we talk about the breast as relying on a woman to be present. Yeah but i think we're losing watery when it comes to i emphasise and we're keeping a very simple right now. I realize that the breast cannot stoller things just for to use their simple example. The breast is a partial object those that result from loss totality and doesn't rely on totality To to be a partial object as in this perspective is a partial object. It connects with the mouth of Of a baby right for wraps different mouth. And in this sense this connection through desire is going to be one of flows and functional like A generational flows. And i think like the consumption of those i think is the move there. In this sense we don't really need The totality of a woman that to rest the breast in this matter the breast because it's working with on desiring production here is connecting with the baby in the same way of the mouth is connecting with breast. So as to basically be part of the synthesis so we don't need the the totality of Another way to say it is more in psychoanalytic terms. The mouth doesn't rely on the hit of the baby to direct her to create the desire that the eagle will then move the baby to the breast instead of the cardboard right likewise the mothers Unconscious would need that because desiring production is in this impersonal level and the subject is these young. These flows royce syntheses. The breast. The mouth are self sufficient right there. Partial objects in that manner not resulting from A break with er totality is and not needing to be fit into a totality of Something that's been lost or something. They laugh thank you. I'm just trying to wear it with what i know about. Climate and it seems like a major differences to sort of this realm of a representation. That were because like you're pointing out klein. Sort of takes us process to fold ending in like some sort of evaluation of the object in that evaluation is what dictates the relationship. So you have like a good breastroke bad breast or something like that and And so there's a there's a reification or whatever a of a of a definite quality and the consequences. I like eleven seminars railing against this the that an object can have us a singular quality. Be good or bad like that. That's how this works. But he does maintain that whole There was no tap totality to begin with. But somehow you wound up in this experience or something or wanted through introduction that you lost something threaten the thing though isn't that they're saying there's no totality to begin with it's that there's no totality to end with either there's there's there's not a totality that is yet to come that it is only the beginning part of like there's no totality yeah in the conscious the same thing about the problem with the ideal ego the ideal ego has that that sense that there is some sort of totality like fundamentally different scopes. And i'm just trying to get a taste for the difference. So thank you. For letting me. And i think i mean you wanna talk about for them. The con- i'm gonna read the next paragraph and we're just gonna go because we have a we have a little bit to get through still. But i mean the next paragraph begins even such in the case in freud for example for castration for the second phase of the fantasy a child is being beaten or again for the famous latency period where the analytical mystification culminates. This common transcendent absent. Something will be called phallus or law. In order to designate. These signifier the distributes the effects of meaning throughout the chain introduces exclusions their winston editorializing interpretations of lacombe the communism. And i. i've never say that word properly. This fire acts as the formal cause of the triangulation that is to say makes possible both the form of the triangle and its reproduction. Oedipus has as its formula three plus one. The one of the transcendent fallas without which the terms considered would not take the form of a triangle. It is as if the so called signifying chain made up of elements that are themselves. None signifying of polly vocal writing. Detachable fragments were the object of a special treatment. A crushing operation that extracted a detached object from the chena despotic signifier. From whose law. The entire chain seems consequently to be suspended. Each link triangulated there. We have curious parallelism implying. Transcendent use of the syntheses of the unconscious. We pass from detachable partial objects to the detached complete object from which global persons derive by an assigning of lack for example in the capitalist code. And it's trying to terry expression. Money as detachable chain is converted into capital as detached object which only exists in the fetishists view of stocks and lacks marie de footnote. Very quickly. where it says One of the transcendent phallus without which the terms considered would not take up the form of triangle from edmund. Not eggs back english. is it in order. The necessary conditions for the existence of a structure in the familial institution or in the oedipus complex to be fulfilled. At least four terms are required. That is one term more than naturally necessary. That's the moment of lack the introduction of this the the thing we're missing the fallas in the situation. I think i'm just gonna continue. Because they're going to dive right into the audible code The same is true of the edible code. The libido as energy of selection and detachment is converted into the fallas as detached object the ladder existing only in the transcendent form of stock and lack something common and absent that is just as lacking in men as in women. Is this conversion that makes the whole of sexuality shift into the edible framework this projection of all the brakes flows onto the same mythical locale and all the non signifying signs. Same major signifier quote. The effective triangulation makes it possible to assign sexuality to one of the sexes. The partial objects have lost nothing of variance. inefficacy yet. The reference to the penis gives its full meaning to castration through it. All the external experiences linked to deprivation frustration to the lack of partial objects take on meaning. After the fact all previous history is recast and a new version in the light of castration. Guys i feel like it's purely con. Ken yeah yeah. I'm just trying to remember what he said about antifa. Because there's a line here too because they're talking about the fells but what calm doesn't start with the fouls right And so i mean it is the i that idea of all drives are virtually. Death drives that that in sex or any sort of connected creative activity there's going to be destruction or disconnection or whatever the yeah the the two aren't mutually exclusive or having hard time partially. Yeah the sounds like it's supposed to be a dedicated to I mean doesn't make their is no lack real. The real is overfull. Malak only comes into place in in trying to symbolize the real trying to make some sort of totality in. That's the problem and this is the problem look had with melanie. Klein is that the Or just even ego psychology in general is that it's alienating is that this is like fundamental alienating movement to miss recognize once enjoyment as being one's own that that you know i am the cause of my desire or i am i am this thing. That's i'm from green. Andre green wrote that quote the the us at the end. There ought to look into that. I will find translations in use of that. He wrote a piece called living affect Oedipus in africa things like that. He's got a few pieces on. This seemed to be taking from will will run with that Afterwards anyone have any questions or comments. A lot of this is If you're not understanding it's i'm just going to be like cans going to be whatever it generally it's okay to not fully understand a lot of what they're talking about with freud. It's a it's a way for them to position themselves. In critique against what was very much prevailing theories of the day they're doing hard against freud here and They will be going hard against lucon not as hard but pretty tough still so it's about placing themselves against that. It's not as necessary to fully end. I don't think so it's okay if you're not fully grasping a lot of the stuff that they're talking about with oedipus and the triangulation and fallas and all that it's a whole fucking fucking thing will the it's basically foreclosure of customization which is something I think they are mentioning in Got to the libido so because we live in discomfit a-list society It's to the foreclosure Station and don't have. I am actually i would say fullest. But it's actually an anal Ding to have money to assess it. And i would say that To hefty moustache schools. You have stolen since fuel anal device which is actually beneficial to homosexuals. I suppose but. I am a bit myself. Bickel deletion. i'd say that it's actually not The deep one signify chain around the fullest. But it's actually because it is this it's negate its to customization because of course live society mid women as well as men so to make this of. Ft will basically isn't foreclosure which is a dejected The gestation the foreclosure cassation. I don't think they named it. Foreclosure because beating But the keep repeating it powder. Fellows is detached this basically for I suppose Which is a concept in ethics seminar. Twenty again it's this is not easy And it's a lot to dive into so don't think that like this is not as necessary to understand fully because they again a lot of their philosophy. A lot of this writing from a place of positive origination. If you're for example going to decide. Oh i want to go down the road and learn about the con- yeah you really need to understand this shit because the negation. How foreclosure works and all that is. I found it very difficult to dive into and i still don't fully grasp it overall but they come from a place of basically a fully affirming interesting direction. So you don't have to worry about it quite as much just a just just my thought someone out there is going to disagree. I will move onto the next thing. It's about lack on its history. That is indeed. What disturbs us. This recasting of history and this lack attributed to partial objects how could partial objects not have lost their lives and efficiency efficacy once they had been introduced into use of a synthesis that remains fundamentally illegitimate with regards to them. We do not deny that there is an edible sexuality and edible heterosexuality and homosexuality and at a poll castration as well as complete objects global images in specific egos. We deny that these are productions of the unconscious what is more castration and epilepsy beget basic illusion. That makes us believe that. Real desiring production is answerable to higher formations that integrate it subject transcendent laws and make it serve a higher social and cultural production. There then appears a kind of unsticking of the social field with regard to the production of desire in whose name all resignations are. Justified in advanced psychoanalysis. At the most concrete level of therapy reinforces this apparent movement with its combined forces. Psychoanalysis itself ensures this conversion of the unconscious and what it calls prieta apple sees a stage that must be surmounted in the direction of an evil of alot to've evolutive integration towards the depressive position under the reign of the complete object or organized in the direction of structural integration towards a position of a despotic. Signifier of the phallus the aptitude for conflict of which freud spoke the qualitative. Opposition between homosexuality and heterosexuality is in fact. A consequence of oedipus far from being an obstacle to treatment encountered from without it is a product of eta position and a counter effect of the treatment that reinforces it when they said at the end of the last section. They said we must find a cure for the cure. This is what they're referring to quite quite a bit again To say they do not deny that. Oedipus exist as a as a complex there are people out there who want to do these things and who feel this. There are people out there who will have there are images. There are specific egos like. They're not saying that these things don't exist. They're saying that they are not productions of the unconscious. The these things are not the base level that the desires aren't in service of these things. So this is why you want to be careful when we say. Like the breaking from psychoanalysis. The re engagement with freud is similar to laekan trying to re engage freud very differently though especially because like losing water are not going to say we have. We've figured out freud where his Refunder what their criticism accomplishes here right. So we see in the very beginning on the state to have said the ad desiring production the new. It was impossible without the freudian and to make this move and yet it seems wrong. To say the same thing to equivocate equivocate. Too we find ourselves immediately faced with the judgesthe position and a critical on that as we're going through this right. We're seeing how their engagement with them. Oedipus freud and psychoanalysis in this manner right. The way they're they're they're performing their criticism they're not going to negate out of this but they are going to affirm that only the oedipus some has its place in that they're going to provide an account of how it's created how it functions in creation which we're seeing here how it affects the unconscious as delusion water air constructing it through the syntheses. And how those This playback on one another guy. This is really important because oedipus does stole. Have this eighth right. This represent even those representations still displaces desires will see later on this chapter and has were seeing now actually but that being said right. The task is create as we talk on iran Roundtables is going to be creating those lines of escape in relation to not go and read the last paragraph and then we'll discuss in reality. The problem has nothing to do with preamble stages that would still revolve around an edible access but rather with the existence and the nature of an an edible sexuality and edible heterosexuality and homosexuality and an edible castration. The brakes flows of desiring production. Do not let themselves be projected onto a mythical locale signs of desire do not let themselves be extrapolated from signifier transsexuality does not let any qualitative opposition between a local and nonspecific heterosexuality and a local and nonspecific homosexuality arise everywhere in this reversion. The innocence of flowers instead of the guilt of conversion but rather than ensuring or tending to ensure the reversion of the entire unconscious according to the nfl form and within the nfl content of desiring production analytic theory practice never ceased to promote the conversion of the unconscious to oedipus form and content. We shall see an effect. What psychoanalysis calls resolving this this conversion is therefore promoted by psychoanalysis first of all by making global and specific use of the connective syntheses. This use can be defined as cendant and implies a first parallel just in the psychoanalytic process. For simple reason. We again make use of content terminology in what he termed the critical revolution cont intended to discover criteria imminent to understanding so as to distinguish legitimate and illegitimate use of the syntheses of consciousness. In the name of transcendental philosophy imminence of criteria. He therefore denounced the transcendent use of syntheses such as appeared in metaphysics in like fashion. We are compelled to say that. Psychoanalysis has its metaphysics. its name is oedipus and the revolution. This time materialist can proceed only by way of a critique of oedipus by denouncing the illegitimate use of the syntheses of the unconscious. Found edible psychoanalysis. So as to rediscover unconscious defined by the imminence of its criteria and corresponding practice that we shall call schedule analysis. Let's go right back to a question blast in the beginning right. Which is how do we find the illegitimate legitimate uses. That's it right there right. The transcend them and the imminent criteria are the differentiation. Not play into. It will be parallel. Gis dick men's transcendent and we'll be just when it's imminent. Yes and again we're talking. There's three steps to the syntheses. This first one is about desire. And what it connects to partial objects now they function so when we talk about the difference of imminent versus transcendental. That's that's how you that's when we get to skill analysis which we have a lot of you were around for when we did our summary of that but this is. This is one of those steps. This is what we're trying to do with our skitso project is Sorry trent i said. Transcendent in jack transcendental trips me up to because it's such a subtle thing. yes sorry Talking quickly transcendent versus imminent Would be the difference but to say again though everything. Hang loose right that. This is the difference between the proper use of the syntheses the allowance of syntheses to connect as they do partial objects to connect as they do and produce as they do versus that of the transcendent which actually utilizes representation demands of that and isn't really where the partial objects are connecting. I am transcendence. Yes joe so it's not a bad pun for english being like your second third or whatever language not up at anyone have questions here. This would be the time Type them up in the chat if you want. We can happily on mute you any questions on this section because we are done just time to discuss. Did we miss question. Do we do anything. Because i'm happy to finish up in close out. Don't worry i'm happy to do that. You want to go over how the new question bought works. Yes we're trying. New avenue bought the way it works is unique and a little different. We're trying to figure out how to keep. We've gotten a lot of people who have questions and setups. So i in the chat. You'll see me type a question You you type till q. And then you type ask because you have a question. Do you want to ask you ask explained this whole section and you get a little check. Mark levin point Those of us at the top go excellent list. We answered rookies question. Excellent and it just keeps listing them so we can actually keep track of what questions we've answered Who's got to say all that fun stuff because we've been having a problem with questions getting lost in. What is a very fast check. And it's only gonna get worse over time. So then you look this get you to a nice little spot where we can have conversations over time and you can also do this other thing where you type till d. h. And your type up. If you have something to say put your hand up. And then i can actually just find out who has their hand up because they wanna save something so if i tend to be long winded joe tends to be long winded between the two of us. We tend to spend six or seven hours talking. And no one else gets a word in Raise your hand and we can kind of be watching when people raising their hands. Someone else wants to talk. We can start taking breaks allowing that so we're trying to make it a more inclusive conversation overall so if this sucks will find other bots just starting you want. Ken is asking. What is the relationship. Between transcendental and representation. The transcendent is desiring. Machines are by nature imminent. They connect to what they connect to. There is no thought there is no desire around what they're connecting to just the things that they're connecting to the bwf operates as a bit of a goal for that. But at this point we don't have representation. There's no Baby when it's first born does not go where his mother. I would like my milk. They do in comedies. Bad ones like boss. Baby sort of mock this and have this as a joke but the the nature of the reality is that we have representations in order to deal with things but desire doesn't operate on them instead of operates like babies does even when we don't think it does and we're nice and old and we think that we've created desire and world special. It's not really how it works. So representations are by nature transcendent when we say oh oedipus or the ego or these other. Large-scale things that exist far beyond its they don't. They're just representations by nature transcendent but they still have they still do quite a bit so to get into some of the meat of this question too we saw. There's a transcendent foulis right. There's a transcendent Signifier despite signifier. We're talking here about how an object. It's detached right how that affects the us. Would so things start to be right. What the idea is that. It would appear to be a lack of that which is detached right and this creates a transcendent use of the syntheses. Because now the argument is the unconscious is producing so as to satisfy that lack or to Try and resolve it or to basically be constituted in that in in the sense of that lack right. So in the sense of the phallus or to resolve the lack of the foul or to resolve that very lack of vallis right with the despite signifier. We similar problem. Where part of the signifying chain stands above and meaning is distributed in that manner. So here we would have the phallus for instance the meaning of the sign function of the functionalities. They're distributed at during the second synthesis following back on the first emphasis right on production self constituted through that Transcendent signifier so now. The the way the unconscious is communicating with itself to keep it. Simple is now thought to be and this is a pair considered to be through this privilege. Sign or this basically a signifier that That we're everything else is going derive its meanings from that. The functions are all in service of the function which is where you see them actually put the in a quotation marts to sit with a long awkward silences. We try to find out what is happening. Questions don't mind awkward silences at all in fact. Let's give the since can ask the question. We put him on the spot. Does that your question. You have like a it does just my question and still world full associations cerna so where do delusion g- watery fall on the topic of like meaning like near. There is no formal meeting and this molecular world. They very much value. What can be done with a thing or the production of something over. What does it mean. Or what does it express as goto. I'ts to mean ben Or am i mistaken. It seems like what they don't like are these singular functions attributed to partial objects is like the the fallas is meaningless and early in its case it only has affected by it being like a sort of signifier signified so the fallas might dispense. Despond signify right. There's a way in which those become Through their elevation. There's a A way in which centralization on that sense whether transcendent aspect allows one to derive that meaning from them. Right so all signifies get their meaning through their relationship through the transcendent. All things connecting like partial objects yet. Their meaning through the detached. Object is right. this would be gis sy- logistically there's still working with those signifying chains in that but this is in terms of functionalities right. So we're seeing how when a flow Like out of the the the rest of the mouth. Best example every the The flow there. There's a way in which those two partial objects are going to take on functions right for them. That question of what he does like. Ben says that's the proper question ask when we're talking about meaning that as opposed to asking what it is so as the place that basically through Another derivation right. That's kind of what they're worried about his. Then if we asked the question of what it is and we place meaning in that sense right. Sal pecan phenomenology is a meaning. Only possible through the condition of the transcendent or transcendent conscious is meaning only possible through transcendent fouls. Similarily rim chaos. The title wise. It called the connective synthesis of production does connective refer to connections between partial objects. I think i missed it. I mean they. They don't say it directly that clearly. Yes it did. The connective synthesis is the mo is the part of the syntheses where partial objects connect and. They're always connecting. They're basically always always always connecting all of them all the time to tons of other ones and the first thing essentially it's the first thing that happens inside of the setup it's always starts with that the edge with it and they'll get into this a lot more in the second and third. Is that that moment of connection is also the moment of production that it connection and production are wrapped together in this where it's because it's connecting in that connection it's producing and then it actually is continuing to connect and produce connect and produce connected produce connected produce over and over and over. It's this sort of self fulfilling cool little engine machine they're gonna call it also like a a serial and infinite connection think like this is connected to that and then that is connected to the next thing and then that is connected to the next thing infinitely in both directions. All the time is making some good points there. We need to add one more thing. Which is the brakes right. So during the connective synthesis we have the flows which is going to be a part of that connection between the partial objects those flows change enduring that relationship right and they get differentiated. And when they get cut or broke with the the the assemblage of we like so partial objects commended the assemblage partial eve the assemblage the flows. Keep breaking and connecting in that manner to any other Questions because i think we're nearing the end and we can start wrapping down but raccoons have a bone in their peanuts sledding. You now get the hell out of. You really actually have a bone in venus. How do you know that did you dissect a raccoon penis. The the shit. The internet has taught me. That is not only useless but also terrifying like raccoon. Dick are like the least leaving. This conversation would be the most delivers ian thing possible to do all right with raccoon. Dick bones we are going to close out. Thank you all very much today. Thank you to our viewers know. That's there were fine. And i'm going to close this out with the fun bay. It's been fun Thank you guys. So much for joining. celeste award. Ooh ooh

preuss proust guatieri beckett floyd maura albertine albertine albertine timur Kale michael samuel beckett schiller joe ivan britian budi selma brooks davor saudi
The Art of Dramatic Radio

A World Where

39:08 min | 1 year ago

The Art of Dramatic Radio

"Hi everyone my name is Johnny writer and welcome to the art of dramatic radio. This is going to be a writing one. One Course for radio dramatists as well as playwrights and screenwriters and fans of audio fiction or dialog driven narrative storytelling in general. This is going to be one of two twenty to thirty ish minute video classes that will be posting for free on my new. Patriot page patriotic dot com slash. Mad really's that's M. A. D. R. A. Lies which is also the of my podcast network a network which has two shows. The first is called a world where the second is called the Muller Report Radio Dramatization. Both our radio drama both are very good and super weird and you can check them out at mad release dot Com. I'm also going to be posting an audio version of this lecture. On both of my podcast feeds. So if you're listening to this welcome and if you're watching this welcome welcome welcome. I'm so glad you checked out the Patriot on page. If you haven't yet whether you're listening or watching before you dive into this class. I highly recommend checking out the other video lecture that I'm offering for free which is called agit pods radical narrative audio lesson one the dialectic the dialectic or the dialectical method is something. That's going to come into play a lot in this course including in this first lesson so it's really good context for the material that we're about to cover again you can check that out at patriotair dot com slash really's or you can go to mad really's dot com and click on classes. I'll be hosting new video lecture for the art of Dramatic Radio on the first and third Monday of every month. I realized that if you're watching slash listening to this day came out. It's actually Monday the eleventh which is the second Monday so the schedules a little funky but going forward. It'll be the first and third Monday of every month will be the art of dramatic radio and on the second and fourth Monday of every month I'll be offering a voice in speech class called free speech articulation and resonance this is aimed at podcasters and actors. And really anyone. Who's a shaky public speaker will get something out of this course so you can check that out on the second and fourth Monday of every month and then on Fifth Mondays in months where there are v? Mondays I'll be posting a new class in the agit pods series which again is about radical narrative audio. Actually recommend. You do check out the first one of Before going into this class on Patriot dot com slash. Mad Release. Okay that's the last time I'm going to plug the Patriot page. Let's dive into the syllabus. You can find linked to the syllabus in the about section of the Patriot page or on the post that this video is in. It's pretty simple. It's just one page and in case you're listening on the PODCAST. Thought I would just start by reading the first couple sentences quoted at the top of the syllabus which are also the first few sentences of our text book which is called the art of dramatic writing. It's what is it. It's basis in the creative interpretation of human motives can never remember the full title by Lions Agree. It's available for three bucks as a kindle book. I think it's like fourteen bucks on the Google Bookstore. You can also google it to find a free agree. Begins the preface by saying this book was written not only for authors and playwrights but for the general public if the reading public understands the mechanism of writing if that public becomes aware of the hardships. The tremendous effort that goes into any and all literary work appreciation will become more spontaneous. And that's really the point of this course. That's what I was saying before about how it's aimed at listeners as well as creators in the Patriot page intro video. I talk a little more about why I started this project pod university and what I mean when I say podcasting practice. But that's the point of this course is to enhance our podcasting practice whether that practice is listening and creating or just listening agree makes a big deal about the hardships and the tremendous effort. That goes into any and all literary work which I think is true if a little self congratulatory but the things that really stick out to me in that paragraph are if the reading public understands the mechanism of writing appreciation will become more spontaneous. So if you're a podcast listener but maybe not so much a dramatic writer. Think of this as sort of a how stuff works episode for the craft of storytelling through radio drama. Maybe that's a weird way of putting it but I think I'm going to stick with it. So the big idea behind this book. The Art of dramatic writing the argument that agree put forward. That really really shook things. Up Is Aristotle was wrong which maybe doesn't sound like too much of a controversial statement in this day and age but back in nineteen forty six. When this text book was written the Greeks in the theater world were everything they had written the rules. Aristotle had written the rules in a book called the poetics and it had been hundreds and hundreds of years of everyone following those rules and then in the first half of the twentieth century a couple people came along and really just completely blew up the Greek ideal of theater. And I won't go too much into what the Greeks thought what Aristotle's theories on Theater and dramatic writing and storytelling. Where but what you need to know. Is that Aerostat believed? That character was always secondary to plot that you were telling a story about events and the people who took part in those events were less important than the events themselves so for hundreds of years people are caring more about the plot than the characters who are moving through that plot and then in nineteen forty six Laos agree comes along and says not only is character more important than plot character actually is plot characters shape plot characters plot their own play. And so when you're writing a play when you're setting out to write a play and by the way as I'm saying the word play you can substitute radio play or screenplay you shouldn't start with your plot. You should start with your characters a quote from much much later in the book that I love is whenever you have a fully rounded character. Who wants something very badly? You have a play angry. Also in this book proposes a dialectical method of character creation and Ding Ding. This is what we studied in. Agit pods radical narrative audio again. If you haven't checked out that first video lesson it's free on the Patriot page. Go Take Twenty minutes. Learn what the dialectic is. And then come back and you'll get a lot more out of this course. But in very broad terms it is the process of taking a thesis and slamming it into an antithesis or anti thesis and then melding them together to create a synthesis. Some people think of thesis and antithesis has opposites agree. Calls the synthesis. Your unity of opposites. I think that's a little bit of an oversimplification. You your thesis. Antithesis don't have to be diametrically opposed to each other exactly as much as they have to create tension. They have to be two things that are different enough that you can put them in conversation with each other to move your ideas forward. A great and perhaps the most famous example of antithesis in dramatic writing history is the line to be or not to be from hamlet being non being life. Death thesis antithesis is life the opposite of death or is it just as Dumbledore says the next great adventure. These are the kind of questions that you run into when you start approaching things dialectically so before we leave the syllabus. I want to draw your attention to the lower half where we have the schedule and I want to draw your attention specifically to the links which are links to listening material of classic radio. Drama plays All of which are available for free. I haven't assigned any listening that you would have to pay for next week. For instance we're GONNA be talking about or some well as war of the worlds so I've attached a link to that full hour long play which I highly recommend listening to all of because it is amazing. We're GONNA be using example clips from where the world when we talk about premise. Which is the first chapter of agrees buck from there will be listening to cuss Condo. Which is a little known radio. Drama by famed absurdist playwright Samuel Beckett then from there. We're going to lighten things up with the original hitchhikers guide to the GALAXY BBC Radio Serial. Which is so so so so so so good and then in. July which you can see. His conflict month appropriately enough the listening selections will both Be From. Star wars the NPR playhouse reputation which is much longer than the movies. Much more expansive than the movies and in my opinion much better than the movies controversial. I know get excited for the NPR version of Star Wars and then in August as we talk about crisis we're going to listen to wings by Arthur copay. That's another one that was produced for NPR. It's a beautiful little piece about the takes place inside the mind of a stroke victim and then I've written live zoomed. Show a little bit optimistically under the assumption that I will be able to pull this together. I have not been able to find a recording of my favorite radio drama ever which is called not not not not not not enough oxygen by Carol Churchill. I think I got the right number of knots in there. I think it's six nuts. It is so prescient especially with current events. Being what they are that I felt that not having a recording of the original production which I wouldn't really WanNa do a revival or reproduction of it I would want to do. All of these are the original broadcasts of the respective plays. I figured I would try and get together a live reading of not not not not not not enough oxygen. Just because it's so immediate. It's so now it was written in one thousand nine hundred seventy one but it takes place in the future which is currently our past slash president. It's just amazing. I guess about it forever but I think getting together a live reading of it at the end of as a way of celebrating. The end of this course is a really fun idea. I'm being a little bit optimistic again that I'll be able to pull it together but I'm working under the assumption that our last bit of listening material isn't going to be something recorded it's GonNa be something that Me and a couple friends perform live via private zoom call or whatever method we end up using K also. I just realized I was wrong about something. The hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. That we're GONNA listen to is actually not the original radio broadcast. It was put out a year or two after an LP. I'm GonNa talk about all these in a second so I'm gonNA. I think we should just leave the syllabus and move onto the next slide on which as you can see. I posed the extremely pretentious question. What is drama? I don't really mean this in a in a philosophical sense what is art. I mean more like what do I actually mean by the word drama? Because I think when people think of drama they think of it as sort of the antithesis Ding To comedy you think of the two masks comedy and drama as the two sides of theatrical storytelling. But when I'm saying drama would actually mean is something that is dramatized and by that I mean something that's driven by dialogue so trying to set this apart from fiction partially because something that irks me to my very core is when people misuse the phrases audio fiction audio drama and radio drama so actually I should say I miss use the phrase radio drama a lot because I use it interchangeably with audio drama. I don't think you have to be listening to radio drama on a specific object. That is called a radio for it. To be radio drama. You can watch a film from your couch. Even if you don't have a film projector you can listen to a record. Even if it's not a vinyl record that you're playing on a record player so I think you should be able to listen to radio drama or audio drama in podcast form and call it what you want to call it like radio drama. So we're going with that but radio dramas slash drama is different than audio fiction which is generally just a spoken word version of a fictional pros story. I think people call audio fiction radio drama and radio drama audio fiction A lot and I think Actually drawing a distinction between those two forms is going to be really important for this class because radio drama is just the radio version of a screenplay or a stage play whereas audio fiction is the spoken word version of what would otherwise be called a short story or a novel or Novella or something written in prose both of which are of course separate from poetry which is written in verse. These are all formal terms. These are all terms that. Describe the form that your story takes and drama is actually just a form of storytelling that is separate from fiction and separate from pros and separate from poetry when I think of dramatic storytelling when I think of something that's dramatized. I think of something that's dialogue driven and his agree says there is no drama without character. We always want to route everything that's happening. In our play in our radio play in our stage play in screenplay in our characters remember. Aristotle said plot was more important than character agree. Not only are you wrong. You're actually missing the synthesis of plot and character which is the character actually drives plot characters plot their own play and the actual way that characters go about plotting. Their play is by wanting things by needing thing. One of Kurt Vonnegut. Its rules for writing. Is that every character. Must want something even if it's just a glass of water because as human beings we are driven by needs and desires and were driven by the things that drive us and the things that drive. Drama are the things that drive the human condition so every character needs to want something and in pursuit of those wants Situations Arise which they run into obstacles to getting what they want and need to overcome them in order to achieve their once a needs and this naturally grows into the action of the play so there is no drama without character. There also is no drama without conflict. Unfortunately a lot of beginner. Riders tend to write things without conflict. This is actually just a very easy fixed. Hear writing if you're writing something that seems boring or it's not moving forward. Add some conflict put characters in conflict with each other tape find thesis and find an antithesis and smash them into each other and in a good dramatic story in a good piece of drama. Your characters wants and needs will bring them into conflict with each other if you have two characters whose respective needs are mutually exclusive than only one of them can achieve the thing that they want and the other one will not get what they want. Suddenly you have tension. Suddenly you have motivation to do things and take actions and move the story forward suddenly situations or cropping up left and right that you couldn't have planned before you knew who your characters were and what they wanted and finally the third main element of dramatic story is a crisis you have characters whose wants and needs put them into conflict and that conflict inevitably needs to lead to a crisis and that crisis does need to be inevitable. I think actually I'm using this word slightly differently than agree uses it because agree says that the crisis actually is the turning point. The crisis is the point of no return after which what he calls. The climax becomes inevitable. I don't love the word. Climate I mean ha but I don't love the word climax in the context of narrative storytelling because it it implies that that rising action falling action kind of graph thing that they taught you in school that I don't really give a lot of credence to so now that we've established what drama means which is a dialogue driven piece of narrative storytelling that has characters and conflict that leads to a crisis. Let's talk a little bit. About what radio drama means because the reason? I like the phrase Radio Drama as opposed to audio drama or audio fiction is that it is something that people actually know what it means when you when you ask someone. What is audio fiction. You'll probably get a ton of different answers many of which might be wrong or misguided but if you ask someone to name a radio drama they will almost certainly name the nineteen thirty eight adaptation of H G wells the war of the worlds which is by Orson Welles and the Mercury theatre of the air rising out of the League on a small beam of light against the mirror. Marriage some head on to tell you the play by the automobile. I absolutely adore this. Play a lot of the story about how it caused mass panic and had people running out of their homes thinking the world was ending jumping out of windows and things. A lot of that is overblown hype and not actually Super True but the play holds up so many people know about this play and so few people have listened to it that it's actually jarring how good it is how modern it feels because it tricks you into thinking. It's something that's not. And that's so subversive for a golden age radio play that. I really think it has stood the test of time and I do recommend listening to the whole thing before next class. Which is a week. But this is Kinda. The quintessential radio drama. This is when people think of radio drama. They think of war of the worlds and as a result when they think of radio drama really they think of science fiction science fiction and radio drama even more than fantasy and radio drama even more than theater and radio drama sci-fi and radio drama really do together in the cultural consciousness and it's because of war of the worlds. It's because of this cultural myth that we have around it of people actually believing it was true so chew on that. Because there's there's really something there there's something there about the immediacy of the form of radio drama that I think we could really unpack and maybe we will next week You can find out if you pay between four and seven dollars a month to become patron. Okay that's the one the promise. That's the last plug moving on. So the war of the worlds is the most famous example of a radio play from the Golden Age of Radio Drama which is pretty much generally during the thirties and forties and fifties somewhat before. Tv really took over the dramatic storytelling market. And then there was this. There was this golden age of radio in this country and then TV came along and radio. Drama really fell off the national radar and that is a different situation than what happened in Britain largely because of the BBC which has been consistently producing excellent radio drama starting in the Golden Age all the way to present day. In fact. There's a show called the archers that I'm going to talk about in a little bit that has lasted from the Golden Age to the present day. Part of the reason that the BBC radio drama is such a lasting cultural thing is because during the golden age a lot of really famous really amazing playwrights who were creating some of the boldest most exciting theatre workout. There were also writing for radio. Were being commissioned by a publicly funded service to write crazy boundary pushing stuff Samuel Beckett who's pictured in the studio wrote Koss Condo which we're going to listen to and a bunch of other plays like a Joe and all that fall and embers all of which are wild sleep new stories no more words. Don't give up this. It's the right one we'll there nearly. I'm somewhere gotten don't lose some follow him to the end com long. This time it's not right. One finished sleep comma Carol Churchill was another who wrote some really genre defining radio drama because people don't think a lot about radio drama that happened after nineteen forty or so people treat plays that were written for radio in the fifties and sixties for the BBC. Like they are theater plays people stage productions of Koss Condo and embers and not not not not not not enough oxygen. My favorite radio play is performed so often as a play that people actually forget that it was written for radio and because of that they miss some of the subtleties of the storytelling. Like the use of sound effects which are much more pronounced in the radio listening environment than they are on stage when there's so much visual stuff going on and the BBC has done so much for the form of radio drama and has really kept it alive has has really been the the lifeblood of the form but the BBC has also pushed the boundaries of the form in ways. That people don't really appreciate today in this case. I'm thinking of the original radio. Serial of Douglas Adams Hitchhikers Guide to the galaxy. Now this is something. You're probably familiar with as a movie or book or as a computer game but before it was any of those things. It was a radio drama. It was a. I should say a radio comedy because the BBC separates drama out from comedy. The hitchhiker's guide to the Galaxy was produced out of the BBC. Radio phonic workshop and the kinds of things going on in the BBC Radio. Phonic workshop had a lot more in common with the kinds of sonic experiments. That Pink Floyd was doing then. The kind of archaic fully every actor around one microphone style that were the world was made in. You better be prepared for the jump into hyperspace. It's unpleasantly like being drunk. Well what's unpleasant about being drunk? You ask good loss of order. Yes fish during my ear translating for you. Look on the table. Fish the book what's happening into hyperspace. It was the first BBC radio comedy broadcast in Stereo. Which was huge. It involved actors being recorded in separate rooms and then having their voices treated it had sound effects recorded on tape rather than done live. These are all very modern techniques. That really were sort of boundary pushing enough for a radio drama but for a Sitcom for a radio comedy to be doing some of the kind of experimental stuff that they were doing in the BBC. Radio phonic workshop really was out there. As the entire hitchhiker's guide series is so throughout the fifties sixties seventies eighties. The BBC is producing radio. Drama and radio drama is really completely fallen off the radar in the United States and then in the eighties and nineties. We get some very interesting and really largely forgotten work coming out of National Public Radio. Npr of all institutions pushing the boundaries of an art form to places that. I don't think anybody thought it could go. And one example of that is Wings the play about the stroke victim that I told you about which again is this. Sort of cerebral surreal. Severi sound design heavy meditation on loss and forgetting and age so much. I I get speechless. Talk about wings. Because you'll hear it when you listen to it to die that I know and how then day came as I'd hoped it would like came with it so with this. You'd think you'd expect you told them they will find me to me that. I am not alone. Hollow Long Ban man one of the most successful Npr Radio Drama series was based on none other than the star wars movies and George Lucas. Which in the age of Disney having the stranglehold on the Star Wars Franchise. It's it's it's sort of unbelievable to even think of this happening but George. Lucas sold the rights to all three of the star wars movies. Basically immediately after the movies came out he sold the rights to his local. Npr station for a dollar each and they were not only allowed to use the original music from the movies they were allowed to use the original sound design. They used Ben Birt's sound effects which I could go on for days about the amazing innovative stuff that Ben. Burtt did on the sound design in the star wars movies but to have those amazing sound effects that were produced in the highest tech studios at Lucasfilm to have these accessible to a public radio station to then expand these beloved movies into an hour's an hours-long serialized radio drama gets a kind of life to the star wars stories that I really wish more people would engage with. Because they're great shipping cargo your vehicle and your own persons even yours your highness subject to search here and now diplomatic missing of mercy and imperial decree a special emergency outweighs that you're under our jurisdiction. No advantage of the imperial Senate won't take this lightly in any decision to search. I ship rests with Lord Tire. He's in charge you so he is. Yes we'll make this completely then see just what it is. You're conceit I wouldn't try to raise has to file without war. There were two main. Npr shows that produced radio drama from about the early mid seventies s to the late nineties. And those were ear play and NPR. Playhouse airplay was the one that produced wings. Npr playhouse produced star and then public funding dried up. Welcome to America. I mean we really could have had another golden age in the eighties. Nine in we were on track for another golden age in the year. Two Thousand and we in this country decided that public radio and the craft of Radio Drama. Were not worth publicly funding and so a lot of the freedom to make experimental work and broadcast it on a national platform was lost and that didn't happen with the BBC the BBC has been publicly funding radio drama. Really since our golden age in fact There's a show called the archers which has been running consistently with the same actors and the same characters since the year nineteen fifty. It's a twelve minute soap opera that takes place in a rural farming community. What you'll Russia's anyway. They probably went back from the Bulls off and not the Bull David is. He'll be in the public fraternizing with his serfs as usual. What's the matter with you this morning? Nothing whatever my extra bed. That's all too much sleep. Always makes me spiteful. I've noticed I shall need a very understanding husband true. Did you ask mark by the way? I'll ask him what do understand me. Oh to marry me to glebe cottage. Who that yes. He couldn't make it. He's all from some nefarious enterprise with rich this afternoon. Looking at a boat or something vote Leicestershire where else? It is exactly as boring as it sounds. But it's wildly popular in England and has been for just about seventy years and that I think gives an example of the difference between the kind of parallel paths of British and American radio. Drama on BBC. Radio drama is sort of traditionalist in a way that I think it can only be in a country where radio drama has a tradition and in the United States. Some of the stuff that was happening in the seventies eighties and nineties was was as boundary pushing if not more than the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy and what they were doing the BBC radio phonic workshop but was it because we lost public funding for the arts. And that's where I'm going to stop the story because there are people who are arguing that we're in a second golden age of radio drama and I don't want to count. I don't want to provide an antithesis to that because that sounds great. I would love to be in a golden age of radio drama. But I think in distancing ourselves from the war of the worlds from from the idea of there being a tradition of radio drama in this country we are really missing out on some great work. That has been hard to find anywhere but the kind of obscure corners of the Internet. That I hang out so for the purposes of learning about writing radio drama. We're really GONNA be focusing on work. That came out of the last century. We're going to be stopping around the year. Two thousand the first radio drama that was recorded entirely via the Internet was done in two thousand and three. And we're pretty much stop there because I think there's so much to learn from the history of this form that so tied to public arts funding which is such a radical kind of idea in this day and age when people try and rebrand radio drama as audio fiction as something that is entirely new and doesn't have a history. We lose a lot. We lose a lot of technique because really what I'm interested in exploring the history of radio drama in conversation with the art of dramatic writing and we'll get back to agree and just a second but what I'm interested in is exploring a radio drama cannon. Exploring the idea of a radio drama cannon that has been produced almost exclusively throughout the years by publicly funded institutions. So that's what we mean when we say radio drama. Let's go to agree and let's go to Greece first chapter which is called premise. Let's talk about what? What do we mean by premise? Here's some examples from page. Eight of the art of dramatic writing of things that agree a short sentences that agree describes as great premises for play frugality leads to waste bitterness leads to false gaiety. Ill-temper leads to `isolation. There's a there's a prescient one prudishness leads to frustration. Bragging leads to humiliation honesty. Defeats Duplicity Agree? Says although these are only flat statements they contain all that is required of a well constructed premise character conflict and conclusion. What we're calling crisis. Writing is the art of communication in telling a story. We are trying to communicate something about the human condition to our audience. And you're never gonNA get an idea for your play that really drives you and really makes a good interesting story. If you're not trying to say something really what is getting at is just the the premise of your story. The thing that you should start with and in the Reading For homework pay particular story of Aunt Clara. Because I think it illustrates this point really. Well the premise needs to be rooted in your character. Frugality leads to waste your writing about frugal character. Bitterness leads to was it false gaiety. You're writing about either a character who is bitter or character who is falsely gay. I guess is late at night folks. When you sit down to write a radio play or a stage play or a screenplay or any sort of dramatic piece of writing you should be trying to communicate something to your audience. There should be something that you are trying to say so when we think about premise. Really what we're asking ourselves is. What are we trying to say with this piece of writing? I want to end with an egg request that I threw out in the beginning because I really think this is just the best way to start thinking about dramatic writing which is whenever you have a fully rounded character. Who wants something very badly? You have a play so for homework. You can see that on the syllabus. I've assigned pages six through eleven and two hundred sixty five thousand two hundred seventy four. So we're going to be skipping around a little bit Those pages at the end are from the section how to get ideas which is the title of the next class. I highly recommend listening to all of war of the worlds. It's an hour long and it is a totally worth your time. And then for this month's writing assignment Which again as I mentioned in the Patriot. Intro video you as a patron are invited to submit a two page scene for a grade A very gentle encouraging grade as well as A little bit of constructive personalized feedback from me to you. Write a two page scene. Based on one of agrees premises. That agree wrote out on page eight. So ooh here's my favorite premise. Craftiness digs its own grave. Let's go with that. Write a two page scene with a character who want something that is based on the premise. Craftiness digs its own grave. I had forgotten about that one. That's the homework assignment. So you're writing about a just as a hint. You're writing about a character who is crafty. In some way and in some way will dig their own grave.

BBC Dramatic Radio NPR Aristotle writer Samuel Beckett United States George Lucas Carol Churchill Muller M. A. D. R. A. Google Bookstore google Laos Kurt Vonnegut Ding Ding cuss Condo pod university Douglas Adams Aerostat
First Week of School Activities

Vrain Waves: Teaching Conversations with Minds Shaping Education

16:01 min | 2 years ago

First Week of School Activities

"And we are back back and better than ever so whoever you are wherever you are whenever it is is you are catching some brainwaves were coming to you from the banks of the eager in steamy saint rain river and almost always sunny longmont colorado and i'm ben call been across table is a co host. Who's forgotten more this summer than most of us will ever know. She's becky peter's becky. What's good really good introduction man. I like that one a lot. It's all good ben. I've missed the so much. I've missed bringing the giants and education and giant ideas. The minds of my favorite people busy teachers in order to help us be more informed formed inspired and connected and amazing lineup of guests and content for all of you the school year but this is our annual first few weeks of school episode. We wanted to bring your research. The ideas strategies things like that to you as soon as we could to think about for your first few weeks of school totes maggots absolutely <hes> we remember back one of my favorite episode was episode episode zero zero nine with the infamous dan pink and he really emphasizes the importance of the start of any endeavor that the star is the hardest part and and the most important part that launching spaceship most of the fuel is used getting it off the ground way less as us keeping it in orbit and the start of anything is the most important important part of any event and i wrote a book this summer which really emphasized that and had a cool analogy the book was called atomic habits by a guy named james clear <hes> we're gonna reach out and hopefully have him on the podcast but one of the analogies he gives about the importance of start is imagine you took a plane that is destined from los angeles international the airport to new york city if you take that plane and you rotate the nose of it just eighty six inches south. That plane doesn't end up in new york city. It ends up in washington washington d._c. So just an eighty six inch change at the start changes the destination by over two hundred and twenty five miles so how we start is is vitally important and we so hope that this podcast helps us start really strong so that's that was in that book cooled digestible takeaways. It sounds really awesome. Yeah it was crazy yeah. I think the biggest takeaway from me was he. Has this advice that anytime. You're trying to add new behavior the best way to do it is actually to stack habits on top of each other so we all have habits. Some of them are good and some of them are bad but if you want to add a new habit added to a habit that you already do so. I hate to admit this but for thirty thirty three years. I've never made my bed. You can ask my mom. My college remain my wife. I've never made a bed in my life and is that you make your bed. I do now all because i've read about the importance of starting off with a clean slate sort of thing <hes> i have been but i i didn't use. It's always a struggle right absolutely so i've never done it but but every day i do have the habit i get out of bed and i turn off my alarm clock after reading digital minimalism last year. I do not keep my cell phone in my room anymore. So i have a physical arm cocking across that i got at walmart seven dollars <hes> so it's across my room in so i added the habit of making my bed to turn off my alarm and i've done it every day. Since i finished that book and then i stacked another habit so now when i make my bed i have my book on the ground next to my bed. I put it on my pillow. Hello so then that night. When i go to bed i see a made bed and a book on top and of the thirty or so night since i've read it. I've probably read a physical book twenty twenty of those nights so i'll get me right. Look at me so have it. Sacking is awesome. Take something you do every day and stack your new behavior on top of it. Do you wanna wanna work out more. Maybe every day when you get home and you take off your work shoes. You put on workout clothes or when you're leaving school you know you have the routine of making sure your door's is locked will add the new habit of popping in the bathroom and change it into your workout clothes. You wanna be more grateful when you sit down at dinner. Just make yourself you know as you put your napkin your lap say something you're grateful for and once you get those procedural things done you can start stacking different things that maybe help you with your attitude so if you're super annoyed when kids always have their hands up with tons of questions maybe add the habit of every time you call on a kid you take a deep breath and smile before you answer pretty cool stuff stacks habits. That's amazing. I'm definitely going to try that. I really liked that idea. I feel like i've maybe done it before in the past but didn't know that i was doing it or something but that's really good because then it just like triggers you to do those other things super cool so i'll report back once. I decide what i want to try checking <hes>. What are they have. It's i want to get back into obviously as this podcast but then when you listen to brainwaves that you get tangible tips again. That's really really important to us. Let's do that. We know the start of the year is important. You'll try habits decking. Maybe to add new behavior to your year here our first few weeks of school activities that you can do during in class so my first one is called the three minute. No me <hes> i've done it a couple of times now at different events the first time i experienced it was at ideo the design firm in san francisco and cisco. I got to go there this summer with a few colleagues to kick off our chapter of the teachers guild which uses design thinking to approach complex issues that teachers face check that out at teachers go that org. I know i've talked about it before but i love it and it's great so i won't stop talking about it anyways. We did a kickoff in san francisco and i actually made kristen. Go with me to see the grateful that house right half of the corner of hate nash berry was amazing. I totally nerd it out. I've been through that since i was in high school anyways. They had to three minute. Nomi activity that i immediately wanted us students students. I'll post a link to it. It's brought to you by design school x. The d the d k twelve lab network and designed high school. It's basically a mad libs but it's cool who'll because it gets to the heart of a person's story like how they see themselves their strengths what they believe. They're good at their skills. They believe they can do and their stance. Which is what they believe in <hes> liquid their heart. We did it with groups of three which i really dug. It's like ten minutes activities. You meet with like a triad three minutes per person kind of walk through the story. You don't fill it out with a pen. You just talk it through <hes> and you could really do that a lot of different points in the year to get to know your students and to help them get to know each other. You're what are a couple of questions from it. Actually my favorite one that i had a really hard time answering the ring was on. If the apocalypse tomorrow i would do blank to contribute to the group. You got one. Yes i think humor and encouragement to like what would they do. Uh-huh teach them like right stem help. I could knit so i mean once we run out of close. Maybe after we read all of the department stores i could knit some scarves scarves people. That'd be very helpful really really good stuff like what's hurting my heart right. Now is blah blah blah so i mean really cool opportunities for deep discussions but also so just really getting to know people like where's your name. Come from and things like that really cool. I love that gray and again. That's in the show notes love. That's a nice low tech or no tech option action there. <hes> amy burdon dan writer. You'll remember their book. Critical creativity is one in becan is favourite books and we had them in episode six <hes> and they just wrote a blog. I post all about different ways. You can take some strategies from their book and apply it to the first couple of days of school and one of the ones that i really liked was that you do one of their activities which was called one word and so you give each student an index card and have them choose one word and could be representative of their summers may not their personality anything like that and then after about five minutes of that you have them walk around the room and organiz themselves in this thing called mad magnetic poetry so their goal is to walk around the room and try to organize themselves and get each of their one words to tell a story so you could do a couple of that you could say find five other people until tell the best six word story with their words or try to do a huge poem so i think it could be a really cool thing <hes> like the <hes> mandatory on their frigerator kind of yeah exactly like that cool yeah so another one i saw on that same blog post 'cause ben sent me a little while ago <hes> it's called tableau it can be used as an assessment later in the year actually but it can also be awesome icebreaker to get to know as i get to know you activity so basically what happens is your students are going to create a scene using their bodies and props and then they freeze in place and you can snap a picture and project to that or have them create the scene live in front of class so the students have to think about all the elements of what's in there seen like the emotions how they're standing or sitting any props that they use <hes> and they can create that in like ten minutes so if you give them a prompt <hes> find four students in this class that you don't know collects data that you all have in common and then you have to you know proposed it in a frame and people have to guess it with the with the freeze frame also as an aside. It reminded me. There's actually a computer software. Program called tableau for data visualization. I don't know if you're familiar familiar with it. It's amazing and it creates these intense and beautiful data visualizations and they offer free licenses for teachers all about like you know shout out whatever gives free things that teachers teachers put the lincoln show notes. It does not take a statistician to be able to use it and it has beautiful beautiful graphs into yeah w. blow there. I like that. I have another idea. Most of our ideas are not our own. We get them big number on steal from other people this when it comes to my friend alex who had taught within illinois so annoy they pronounce his name. Alex is a ball and check in via new zealand. You sound like museum. That's how you sound so alex teaches world history out in illinois and he has completely changed the way he teaches by using breakout until it started off those are kind of basically like escape rooms <music> but they deal with the content that you're teaching and so he started off playing breakout games with his students and then slowly give them more and more control till at the end of the year for their final for world history was that he broke them into four groups and they each designed a immersive game that the rest of the class had to play and break out of so super cool and he starts scaling up that process on day one by taking all the boring routine information that we usually read as high school teachers off syllabus to kids and he makes them like little puzzles that the kids have to solve in order to discover that stuff so it's really one of the things that <hes> he wants them to know so is the proper way of sending an email your teacher that you're not just like yo what up mac daddy. You hope you're good. We asked me and i found that i got one of those w._p._f. U._c._f. Wow that's fun. Yeah okay maybe not but one of the things he so instead of lecturing that he has a q._r. Code that leads to an email l. about <hes> email etiquette and then he's used if then if this then that to write a script that has an auto plan as email only when they send email email in the correct proper format so <hes> yeah they're kind of like hacking and trying in figuring out how to send an email and it's just a lot more effective than him lecturing yeah puzzle like a computer puzzle. They have to figure out how to send them a good email until they stopped getting that exactly. That's that's pretty yeah. It's so cool <hes> so it could be complex like that or it could just be how can you use puzzles and kind of play on that gaming idea. So could you have a worksheet. That has like getting to know my teacher so maybe it has the math problems like four four times. Two is the number of letters my first name benjamin or i was born in the same city of boulder or traveled to the twenty. Six country admitted to the union union this summer michigan so i think it'd be kind of cool to do that for yourself or let kids <hes> introduce themselves to you by making kind of some trivia questions like that thank you. I really like that one. Absolutely i will author one another website here that i think could be super helpful for teachers to make more engaging a visually appealing slide shows and and also a a tool that kids can start using it's a website and also an app on android in iowa called un splash and it's a royalty free image catalogue with with just hundreds of thousands of h._d. Images of anything that you wanna type in keyword for so rather than having those slide shows with really grainy pixel pictures or maybe maybe a watermark or things that don't line up with creative commons. It's a great place to send kids to and to use yourself to make any presentation a little better looking loud so check out on splash will link it in the show notes as well so we know from daniel pink we know from james clear that temporal landmarks. I'll do that one again. Tim temporal landmarks are important and we're so lucky as teachers in just working in public ed that we make a difference every day in student's lives but we also have this lucky privilege. We get to new year's daze. The rest of the world just gets january first but we get the first day of school so let's use it to wipe the slate like clean on our failures from last year. Let's live the samuel beckett quote. Try again. Fail again fail better so becky. What are your goals where you're gonna fail better at this. Here is a heavy question and i have so many which i know isn't the right way to start so my first one is talking about the teacher is the other day and one of the norms came out like like listen with the intent to understand instead of the intent to respond and again with data discussions this really habit awful a habit that i know a lot of us. Do i think it mostly stems from my insecurity of social standing like i think i feel like i need to know everything or something sometimes an intense conversations when people are sounding really smart i listened with the intent to respond and so sometimes i interrupt because i get really excited. I don't wanna lose my connection what they're saying which is like really selfish actually if i think about it if i don't have a genius thing to say after someone's finished that's fine and what i need to do is listen with the intent to understand where people are really coming from a big one for me. My second big one is to get comfortable with feedback. I had a chance this <music> summer to hear a woman beth comstock <hes> who wrote the book imagine it forward. I haven't read it but it's on my shelf. She said two things that are really on my mind today. One is tell me something. I don't wanna hear to elicit feedback. Isn't that great so like after i do workshops or something i'm gonna ask people. Tell me something. I don't wanna hear because i think that will really help me get better and then i can and decide you know is this. Is this coming from a person and i'll ask you know the right people but is this coming from a person that i want to listen to her. You know something that i really need to hear for myself so anyways the second thing that and she said that's bouncing off my brain right now is the piece of changeable never be slower than it is right now. That's a paraphrase but it's kinda hits me in the gut. Our superintendent just showed a video at convocation to the start of the year that said people probably have implantable cell phones in our bodies before the year twenty thirty. It's it blows my mind. Nothing is going to be slower than it is right now so also i'm trying to be more agile and open to change. I guess how about you ben and a really big ones. I know those are great. Maybe aren't that good. No oh i that i could definitely use either of those a goal but i think one of the ones that has hit me was just how much mindless consumption i do that. After a hard day of work my my default is to go home and watch two hours net flicks and just that any great thing doesn't get done by consuming so my goal. This year is to create more than i consume and even if i'm not good at that creation. It's actually been like i'm gonna launch. Procreate are here and i'm gonna be vulnerable. Becky's like one of the best artists look at this platypus. I drew on l. Lincoln and show to'real and i drew it <hes> and i like saudi royal and stuff and you can tell that it's a platypus and it's a powder post and i thought like it at first. It wasn't fun to do that but i was way more charged up to create than i was just watching you know my fifth show on netflix at night so my goal create more than i consume becky listening and eliciting feedback. That's awesome. We want to hear what listeners what is your goal for this year. What are you gonna fail better and we can't wait to just learn from and with you. I hope you guys can hear the joy in our voice. We are so happy to be back back at this and thank you all so much for listening. Please share this with a friend and as always have a great time of day.

becky peter dan pink alex Lincoln james clear san francisco new york city giants longmont saint rain river colorado washington washington los angeles teachers guild illinois new york walmart samuel beckett Tim
Jamming Their Transmission, Episode 7: Robert Lopez

Jamming Their Transmission

1:00:24 hr | 2 years ago

Jamming Their Transmission, Episode 7: Robert Lopez

"Greetings, humans living in dying in the ather. This is jamming their transmission. Where rebels? Critics just. I Khana class and balls. Travel. John madeira. This is jamming their transmission. I'm John Madera in his interview with Jason -til in Barra. House magazine. Robert Lopez says, quote, I think cultivating uniqueness on the page has to do with syntax and diction. Ultimately, I want to read sentences that surprise me in some way. I want to see a word. I wasn't expecting a phrasing that feels awesome. How is still musical? I want the goings on to be familiar yet. Weird in inorganic way. I'm not into anything that feels like it's trying too hard to do something. And that includes any sort of willful cultivation of weirdness, unquote. And in his interview with Peter Marcus in Los Angeles review of books. Lopez states, quote, it is all fiction, perhaps a supreme fiction. If we believe while Stevens, as we always should he wrote, quote, it is an allusion that we were ever alive, unquote. I think we become the sum of all that we have made up it bleeds out of us every. Time we sit down to assemble and reassemble language. I always make it up. As I go in everything, I do it is all a fiction and all of it is true, except when it isn't unquote. Robert Lopez is the author of three novels part of the world can be belonging river and all back full and two story collections. Asunder and good people. His writing has also appeared in dozens of publications including bomb the Mississippi review, New England review and the Norton allergy of sudden fiction Latino he teaches at the new school Pratt institute and Columbia University and the Saul stice, low residency MFA program at pine manor college. He was a fellow in fiction for the New York foundation for the arts in two thousand ten and visiting writer at Syracuse university for fall two thousand eighteen he lives in Brooklyn, New York. Here is Robert Lopez reading from a better class of people a novel currently under consideration with agents editors and publishers. This is news for how to stand in traffic the morning. I stand in traffic. I set my alarm for daybreak and get out of bed when it goes off other people stay in that after the alarm goes off. But I don't understand people like this in these days uninvited trying. Maybe years ago. I try standing traffic come morning so far. No one's asked. What I do in the morning and on that one developed here for mation if they ask I'll tell them. It's the stretch my legs or get some air. No one can argue with some wanting to stretch legs. Forget air. I love the out doors, regardless of letter. I love seeing the sky above me out. Ooh. Or graders depending on if it's blue or grad. I love breathing in cool Chris air, whether it is filled with exhaust fumes are not for me being outside is glorious. It is like food. I can't remember what I did for work. But it wasn't outside in the weather under the Chris Barrett sky. They had me in the building inside a room and cubicle all day and went on. Let me go come the end of it. I never stand in the same intersection twice in a row, which is something. I won't tell them even if they asked I don't need anyone figuring out. What intersection about to go stand before? I have a chance to stand there myself. I also mix up parts of town. I used to wake in the morning and go to work, and it didn't matter whether we're was or if I had to take a train or bus or even drive myself to get there. I do it every day until I realized cured anymore. One day. I told them I wouldn't be coming back. And they said what's the difference? So now, I stand in traffic in the morning, but never at nights. I only tried to do it once night tonight did like it. I sometimes try to catalog what happens during the day. I go through notebook after notebook when I say it helps. I mean, I try to keep track of everything what people say what they do where they sipped and STAN. Talk out loud front of everybody. I haven't been able to or anything out yet. But it's early. Mass week. I asked for them for the notebook during the noontime needed. We tell stories about our lives and try to listen to other without our heads exploded, I've been here for as long as I remember which is probably between two weeks and twelve years of not your bike ride myself here Priscilla did it for me. I do know that it was a good idea that it wasn't going. Well for me inside that Cuba anymore. Thank you, Robert one of the things I love about this fiction, and this is true fiction. Generally is how you depict space that is the spaces in which characters move are often left ambiguous. Few conventional markers are offered. So the spaces feel limited real please talk about these environments, and the choices you make as you imagine. And then to pick them, you know, we learn as readers first of all the nice oppose later is writers how important setting this. And setting is something that so many writers have done so well for so long that I myself have found when I sit down to work that setting disarray rarely as important to me. And so I very rarely actually name ready Nisab places in fiction. It happens once in a while, but not too often, and I really described rooms or how they feel or buildings streets or sidewalks parks anything that might be a wind scape. Every so often, I'll do it. But more often than not I leave that out. So for me space like everything else in my experience on this planet feels very ambiguous to me. And in this particular work, the narrator occupying some kind of home that could be a halfway house. It could be detention center. It could be a prison. It could be a mental hospital and. We're never quite sure. If it's any of those things, but it does seem that he does not have too much freedom of movement, and the idea that he is confined, and does not feel free is not in fact free to do what he wants is indicative to me of so much of what feels like to be an American right now. I think we are in generally speaking, an insane asylum. We are the inmates and. While the in the worst of the inmates are running the asylum and the rest of us are looking in horror. So I think that that space in this particular book gets returned to several times. There are will might be cornerstones of the of the book we start in that space, the book ends in that space, and there's one or two stories in the middle of the book that take place in that spaces while these spaces these transitional institutionalized confined spaces recur throughout your fiction. The reminded me of the geometry's of the spaces in Francis Bacon, paintings those dark blank rooms and Fantasma cages with their ghostly. Outlines can be belong to mean. River comes to mind, the narrator confined within some kind of cube. Why these spaces I guess it could be something of a washout. Jeff. For my psyche. But. Join up to think about it. It just seems abrupt indicative of what if yours like to actually do work. The sit down alone try to make sense of the world language or to render the nonsense of the world through language. I couldn't I don't think employees the interesting interesting lifelock to have everything does everything rights in the very same setting. That would be kind of really, however, you in TIMMY, belong that character is in a very similar place. And he might be the subject of tester experiments at he definitely wants to get out. And so returning to similar space is something that just kind of unnaturally poll to our toward it. And I guess it speaks to what I think of the world. What I think of what goes on in it. And I wanna feels like to being an American narrator. This fiction has some out escaped from or has been temporarily released from this institutional wherever where he attends meetings with other people who tell stories about their lives, and they all try to listen to each other without their heads exploding. So what are some things that make your head explode? Oh. God, I, you know, I guess it will be the same for somebody of us. Most of what transpires on social media is maddening certainly all the discourse surrounding of public, life and policy and politics makes my head explode album. Think also, you know, what goes on in the writing, we're all large degree is is vexing and confusing. Ridiculous, and that such all of his that the cheese into sense of palpable disease. But also, I think more more anger and rage and trying to keep that anger and rage as controlled as possible. But also, let inform the work in colored work in a very interesting later in this fiction. The character describes the police who have even greater powers than they currently have. Would you talk about the police in this novel in this particular, this particular were out of the police do have very far-reaching powers responsibilities? And of course, as nothing keeping the public secure or safe. It has to do with keeping order in a very militant horrifying way of the tops regularly ship people in this world for all kinds of. Gresham's that aren't tirelesly innocuously jaywalking for being a Mexican you are subject to being shocked by the cops. If you do that sort of thing. Oh, if you are that sort of thing. So it was it was Simpson prepares pleasure to Cox owner leads where the cops are even worse than what we see in our in our lives here in America. Cops have been the cause of some anguish in your life. Yeah. Buddy of mine. Really good friend, the drilling amending. Paulie Heenan who used to play music with and use a great engineers on engineer and producer, and he wound up getting killed by copies was murdered by cop in Addison, Wisconsin when he accidentally went into his neighbor's house late one night after he had a drinking. He'd recently moved to. To beaver that. He was familiar with. And he was staying of friends anyone into the wrong house by accident. Evan the the residents. They are called the cops by them. The the the man lived there Nuys Polly as being the young men just moved in next door and was walking him back to his house when the cops pulled up with their guns drawn and yelling get on the ground and the guy called the company. Don't don't Joe shoot. He's my neighbor. It's fine. Polly was stumbling towards the cops and they shot him or by times and killed. So how that kind of experience as a senior friends died such a horrific way and seeing what has happened over and over and over again in this country to people by the cops all over the place in every state in the union. It's it's. And it's. Needs the change in the ends. It seems like right now the public conversation is all about the the person I could have the Oval Office at all of his misdeeds his ridiculous before the rate at ignorance and stupidity as rightly sh should be extrordinary. And seems cops killing people mistreating people has receded in our national consciousness, of course, come back again. Once some, you know, having your own boy playing the toy get shot at one when it happens again will be a costume that for a little bit. And then we'll go away again. But I believe at something that really needs to be. How police function in this country is a sham at its tragedy at it needs to change. Agreed. Yes. Another thing that you do in this story. And this is true, you work in general as u Utah with time, and you leave time ambiguous the this. Character says doesn't know if it's been two weeks twelve years and wonder if you might also talk about time in your workout functions. I think very often functions like that. And I think that's a direct corollary jail. I experienced time I am very much the same mind of one of Gray's Perilly's raiders in her story wants the brilliant story one they tried to have memorized. But it the character says I don't understand how time passes and we see throughout the peace vis counter demonstrating how she doesn't understand how time passes and Mike experience of this planet has been. Very similar. I have a hard time marking time. It seems as though it doesn't get any better. In fact, it gets worse than worse as time goes on, and I get older and having my characters in these books experience time in a similar way. Feels if feels authentic to be because it's how I experienced. Would you talk a little bit more about grace paley? We'll see was one of the greats of twentieth century American fiction. No doubt. And if feels that she she was a rebel Anderson says were extraordinarily artful impactful at some of my favorites. And of course, I think she's both revered by any number of writers, a great many writers. But it's also as if she is some of the Swiss because she never wrote a novel, and she wasn't rally. She wasn't prolific. She she put out three collections of short stories over the course of our. Rather long life that you did some public treating some some not fiction as well. But she's most celebrated fiction, and and Sheila gave us three books, but those three books are fabulous. And seeing what she did with them at how her own. Evolution is a writer changed her first book, which came out fifty nine those mostly domestic issues and. You know, the the individual find make sense of a chaotic world, and and moving through very particular landscape, those New York City in the nineteen fifties at later in her life where she got too much more of social activist. She she took on different social issues inter fiction and seeing that ever Lucien is quite interesting. So she somebody is signed to my students every semester, we read the collected stories, and we talked about her artistry which was. She was one of the greats. Speaking of changes in body of work across time. A better class of people is somewhat of a departure for you. Well, no not departure, but more of an intensification of some thematic aspects of your work while you're writing often addresses politics does so lip declare a better class of people though, find addressing politics immigration, so called law enforcement prison system, more directly if absurdly in that inimitable Robert Lopez way, please talk about this intensification this magnification this shifting of the lens or lenses. I think it's all about the current political reality that we are experiencing. We are in visions. We talk about music and all kinds of music in such. I remember when I first became a big fan of Elvis of his Presley. He was very careful about the course Jisr career never. Speak on politics. He did not want to alienate any of his fans. And I think there was a wisdom and responsibility that he felt towards them. It was soon. He was he generally loved his fans appreciated them. He didn't wanna bother any at blooding also fell 'cause he was apps g think other artists should adopt a similar stance. And he said, no people should do what they want would be. Because this is the time. He was being asked this in the early seventies win. Vietnam war was such a big social political problem in this country and artists of all stripes were speaking out against it and Elvis supported them by saying, they should do whatever they want. They should feel free to say whatever they want. But he remains absolutely silent on the subject and other political subjects, and there was something that I respected about that. I thought that was you know. You know, he thought of himself. I'm just a singer here to sing entertain and make people feel that. I feel that with all the kind of George Carlin somebody that I admired for a long time. What he said he never voted and he didn't up and he said because it just doesn't matter. He said that the people who are voting for. It's just it's a show. It's just a a shell game and the real power resided in the one percent that he called the one percent before I know of anybody else doing, and he said, those are the people and it's much less than one percent. We're talking about a very small percentage of people that are actually running this country. And there are people who have more wealth than the bottom fifty percent of the entire world. I mean that answer that's insane. Right. And that's insane. And so I was very similar my might never any election for a long time. But again, then Rockall bomb team along and. I believe in his rhetoric. And I thought it was always was and it was a paradigm shifting moments in American history. And I went out to vote for him. It was the first time. And then of course, I voted in the last presidential election because I was voting against the current occupants of the Oval Office. Even though I knew that he was not win New York state by felt like I had to cast by my balance in that particular election, and all the which is to say is that to me Donald Trump is a game changer in that we have a fascist as president United States and so- remaining silent or remaining neutral is no longer enough. She I think how we deal with this as people as writers as artists citizens. This is fascist and it's unacceptable as corrupt awful as the United. States at its history has been is it's never been fashion, and it's never been this entirely ugly and about assessing, and I feel that I had to address it as a writer, and as a teacher, and so it just felt like not doing it would've been impassable it would've been possible under the Yod could have gone my whole career Samuel Beckett. Of course means quite a lot to me, and you and I've talked about several Beckett before. Yes. And Samuel Beckett said, basically politics has no place in art. And this is this is a man who lived through the second war was started the French resistance. Right. So he, you know, he obviously experienced the horrors of that. And yet still believe the politics had no place in such a statement coming from him as a paradoxical statement. And I think he was aware of that. Paradox. And that in itself that statement is a political statement, and therefore and his work if for the careful reader will will notice and notice that they're so much commentary on politics, by way of existential dilemmas and questions, so yes, there's no there's no rendering Hannie back. It's workable of any kind of political reality. That's going on right, right? There's no mention of any kind of government. There's no mention of anything like that. Right. By having his his tramps and his his unfortunates who are completely bewildered and lost and unable to get anywhere. I mean that was a complete commentary on on what life was like in the twentieth century and still very much his commentary on the twenty. Indeed, it is. And I think maybe that's that's one of his points that writing if you're engaging politics in your fiction or in your art as a form of or in the direct way that some people do it becomes a kind of sloganeering and therefore becomes only temporary. Earlier you talked about how the terrible state of affairs, politically and culturally etcetera had compelled you out of a certain kind of neutrality run involvement in a reminded me of something Howard's in. I think it said that is that you can't be neutral on a moving train. And this reminded me of the subway sections in this novel. Would you read some of those for us? This is Paul good percentage. All of the women sitting across from the baby are looking at the baby there smiling. I cannot see with the baby is doing whatever it's doing is making all of the women sitting across mid smart. Five of the seven women have nice miles, which is percentage. The other two are smiling. Like the heat the be like they wish the baby was dead or on another subway. These you probably cannot have the baby themselves. They want one for can't top one. It is sad. But another neutral they've tried countless times one can't conceive in the other king carry determine and now he is be under baby's mother as came all Davies at all. I know judge these women I know what it's like a my way home to drink myself asleep and maybe try to make weekend plans with us but who's been avoiding of late. This is jamming their transmission. I'm John Madera. You've been listening to Robert Lopez reading from and talking about his as yet unpublished new novel, a better class of people. Here's Robert Lopez reading another section from the novel. This was called syndromes at once. Now baby is hurting on the subway in. So now, everyone is a hostage. Everyone is either sitting next to or across from the baby or standing up in a way from it. But we might as well be bounding gag in the back of gestation. We'll look at each other. Like, we don't know what it's undeniable and true that we want this baby dead or to stop crying. So we can go back to the magazine you're reading with the music. We are listening to where the free hem of the skirt. We can't stop touching. Everyone feels badly about this about wanting to be dead or to stop crying because it is a mongoloid baby. And it is the middle of the day browse of early morning related nineteen would feel differently. And yes, it's true. That everyone knows you're not supposed to call this kind of baby among the life anymore. But this is what we called him. When I think this is what we call him. I mean this icon. I assume what happens to me happens to everyone. Or when I think occurs everyone. Sometimes I make that mistake goes away whenever I sleep turn my back, which is why make that mistake. I think is the same estate Gog mix. God only thinks he's God. That's his problem. So everyone says God rest his so God have mercy for the love of God. Or God damn at all to hell. This is exactly what God wants to hear. Because everything is about him. In. This is a lot like the old president the neo-fascist who abolished congress and the Senate along with science and the arts. I did tell by the look on everyone's faces that everyone agrees with me both about God and his baby maybe this baby weren't among the everyone would feel differently. But there's no way of knowing we think most people don't want to be around a crying baby regardless if it's a mongoloid or not and no matter what time of day. It is either you aren't allowed to shoot a crying baby in the face yet. Unless it's Mexican. What some people now is the doctor who they named the syndrome after was awful human being in the stocks on the wise wear for us of this abyss condition is even more offensive than calling the baby along the light in the first place. We tell this to the mother, and then we tell her we have nothing against the Mongolians as a people, and that we respect Gingas Kahn as much as anyone we might need to mention that millions of people are related to both Ganga's Khan and his brother Dom. And that is most impressive, no matter. How you look we tell her. We are not here to judge anyone. And then we ask what is the baby's name at the always cry like this in public. The woman looks at us and says, how dare you? We don't know how to respond. So we apologize. We say that we don't mean to center, and this is true. We feel sorry for this woman. And it's possible. We are already in love with him. It's possible we have profound feelings for this woman because of what she has to go through every day with a baby like this. And also, she is pretty and has nice hair tones basis wonder about the father, and what his problem is. And if he is still the picture, we his being is done if we had to bet on it. And then we this woman has been looking for a way out since she met him. There's no doubt she feels trapped and who could blame her this is when we realized we might be suffering from Stockholm syndrome, and we ask each other. If this is what is happening one of says, we have two syndromes syndromes going on at once if such as the case. Meanwhile, the baby keeps crying, and we crying. We mean screaming for than anything else is as if the baby is on the rack or is being disembowelled for something. Likewise unimaginable. We wanted to ask. If the mother is taking the baby to the hospital, but we don't because it's clear the women would take this the wrong way. We wondered if the father is out now with another one one would doesn't have a baby at might in fact, be bearing. So this kind of travesty could never happen again. This is another thing. We don't tell them of it. Now is cursing us covering the baby's ears and rocking it back and forth. By now, we know this woman is passed saving, and there's nothing we can do. So this is when we get off at the next stop, even though we are supposed to take this train to the end of the line. And yes, again, in this case, as in most cases, we is me. I'm not sure why do that other than what I ready said on the subject of what I think in assume and the mistakes both guard in I make for my part. I finally got a hold the best Peron's, and she agreed to meet me for dinner. I'm hoping something will come of this. But I don't think it will. I think as bonanza wants nothing. To do with me. Like, my mother even still we are scheduled to have dinner at a new restaurant downtown that almost everyone thinks is the best thing going. Thank you, Robert. That was wonderful a good percentage. Fines you doing something? So well that you always do so well that is you take a phrase and arguably dead phrase like a good percentage, and then revivify by placing it in an odd context reminds me of SHA club skis statement that are always makes the familiar strange and vice versa. So why do you do this? You know, I really don't know. Titles for me coming in in generally, one to as one one way is that I have the title ready, and I used to keep a running list of titles back when I wrote more stories, and I was a little bit like cheats, were a have fears that I may cease to be before my pen have gleaned by teaming brain, another my brain, no longer jeans. I felt the need to keep a running list of titles in a notebook but fled but for inevitabilities good percentage. I wrote the story, and it just appeared to me that a good percentage was the title. So generally speaking, I ate how title beforehand, and I find a way to impose it into the story. And of course, it I my best to make it feel organic and seamless that he came out of the story ready. Even though I wound up, you know, on the shoving it in there. Somehow four indicates like a percentage just after writing the peace and that having a title a good percentage just presented itself as as the phrase that felt like it worked as a title. So I think he I get titles one or two days navigator story. It was that that second way. I guess become accustomed to reading through the work and finding that that phrase that might feel it's intriguing on its own and it as a particular kind of helping to pull or intrigue, and then when you encounter in the tax itself, the meaning somehow changes are the feeling changes. And I suppose whenever I do that in a piece entitled the peace in that fashion on the lookout for for something that will kinda work in in several ways as I think titles should do while Stevens also used to keep a notebook of titles. You know, what I've read along Stevens biography or two, and I know that I like to think of myself as a massive fan of Wallace Stevens writing, but you've committed several of his poems to memory, right? Yeah. A huge fan of all Stevens. And I find him to be extinct tartar for given that he worked in insurance, and you know, the suit every day and walk to work in Hartford, Connecticut, and the people that he worked with at the insurance company. Didn't even know Lil on is is that he was a poet off. But that is is stature America Polidori was what it was. And so I find them interesting chapter along with the work, which I think is really, of course, there are some other unfortunate aspects to his character. If you read the by Agra fees. Yes. You learn these things, but it doesn't to me diminish the enjoyment of his poetry. Should we always distinguished artists from their work are there times when we shouldn't? And what should we do with the great work made by people who have committed moral transgressions? It's big question. And I talked to my students very often because too often students my students were there at the new school their products, the toot or Columbia Syracuse wherever I teach readers have a highlight of mistaking the voice, if it's a problem of it's a it's a persona in opponent or narrator in a fiction or a character in fiction mistaking that for the author him or herself. And I honestly students every time they do that. And I think what I try to get them to think about is. Work is it's phone and did. And the work. We have to divorce will we loving now of the author from the work itself. And so I try to do that all the time. And I think this idea that a racing or or basically throwing somebody into the ash can history because of like, you said this moral or some some misdeed I think it's dangerous because I think there there are time, and there are places in there are there's context and arts is made by artists artists are people and. People are flawed. And so do you have to be a flawless human being to be rubber-stamped by the left? And it's okay to be read for studied it just feels it feels ridiculous to me. Feels like we're sucking humanity out of certain certainly I wanna see something broad you want something general, you also want to say that it needs to be case by case basis, and you wanna say that people need to to make their own decisions. And you hope that eventually something, resembling empathy or compassion comes into play. And then we could talk about the work without necessary endorsing the authors, political views or any sort of mistakes or prejudice that they had or have even at early that difficult to do. I don't think that should be too. I don't see why. That's difficult. What we can separate the work from who's done it, particularly if somebody's dead, and they're gone. It's another thing of it's living writer, and they've done something of Jackson -able, particularly in a time and place like now where we all need to know better. There's certain things that if you said like if while Stevens said what he said about Wendelin Brooks. Now, it would be ridiculous. It would be absurd would be awful. It was awful them. But you know, what somebody who died who was born in eighteen seventy nine. I think that's when all Stevens was born. He was born just fourteen years after the civil war ended and. It's a complicated issue. But it's something, you know, the the left the organized left and in many ways of large sloppy artistic community. Literary community gets a little carried away with certain historical issues that that we need more context, and we need to understand to locate our own humanity when we dismiss someone for being less than less than human somewhere in the section. You just read from a better class of people you deliberately and repeatedly used a quote, unquote, forbidden word, it can imagine a mob of people online finding this story. And then castigating you for using such a term and calling a terrible person for using this offensive word. What would you say to people who would accuse you of having some kind of deep antipathy toward people? With down syndrome. Yeah. I mean, we talked earlier of camera if you will, and we can't engage stupid. You can't engage crazy. And so I wouldn't say anything those people. I would just say, okay. You know, thanks your way in and move on with my life. So I wouldn't say anything to that. You have to be a writer has to write whatever he or she wants. And it's clear to me that an epidemic piece somebody is saying these things, and if you mistake that for the the writer, that's on you. And there are people out there who call beebees little baby SU are unfortunately, afflicted with down syndrome. They used to all the Mongoloids, and there's something that's incredibly awful about that. But in a time right now where we have governors. Hours of southern states. Ten governors officials, you know, appearing in black face and all kinds of other would Diculeng antiquated expressions of entertainment that are that are racist and such in. I think putting a character out there in inside of a world where if you see Mexican you're supposed to shoot shoot up every every when I tell my students is every piece of writing teaches you every good piece of writing teaches you how to read it. And if you read this piece teaches you that it is absurd that it is over the top that it is a social commentary on what's going on. And if you don't understand that it is satire, and if you miss Reed, then that's on you. So they're up. What's the function of satire? What's the importance of satire? And how's it functioned in you work in? How do you see it functioning? Now, I think really a time that kind of begs for satirical, Conan's Jari, and whether it's all babies to sell out or. I mean for some reason, I am not others. Jared works are not are coming to me right now. Can you think of any other books or films in the last many years that are functioning satirically? I think Donna land trim down land Trump's fiction does that very well. Geor- George Saunders. George saunders. Certainly. Yeah. Sasha baron Cohen's? Dial G show Bora UK k version of the office Helenda wits. Lightning rods and some Purcell Everett's novels sorry to bother you. Well, yes, sorry. Bobby certainly really only center. The one that thing Samlip sites to the ask. Yes, will is the shoot is is Jordan Peele. Right eight he director what big movie I'll get out get out. Get out was also a satire. Yeah. I think we're really an Italian so incredibly over the top insane that sell tires one way to address it and as a satirist, and he sort of sadder as a Saturday alive or him ever. You've got you've got to be willing to throw fire to not bodies down and to counter ruckus. And yeah, if you're not doing that as somebody who sues to his playing around with satire, then if you're pulling your punches, you're wasting everybody's time. And so whether it's a film like get out or sorry to bother you or Paul Bettis, the sell out of your Saunders or sandwich sites last couple of novels, actually, they. You now you gotta let a fly. You gotta let it hang out one of the funniest lines in this story was you're not allowed to shoot a baby in the face yet. Unless it's a Mexican right to to explain a joke often dissipates, it's humor. But would you take apart? Why that line is funny? I you know, I am not going on respectfully decline. Yeah. I don't I don't know why I even studied comedy. I remember to the plummeting class in as an undergrad, and we talked about beaks, and we talked about timing. And we talked about any number of elements. But I will not try to unpack that particular talking about rights. Well, it's a line that you could get in trouble for. Yeah. Yeah. It is line again Joe for in this world, you his running running kind of gag about shooting Mexicans, and I think it's it's the here in America. We shoot everybody. You know, somebody crosses the street that women and in Minneapolis who call the cops. Yes. And she was killed. And so I use that in in in this particular book, and I use what I've seen. An as joins, cultivate, some sort of of Sirte world where we're satire is is going to be employed to to shine a light on how ridiculous it is. It just seemed to me with the way that Trump demonized Mexicans Email. They're dream. Drugstore, rapists. I'm sure some are good people. They just see what the next step that to make it satire would be that. You know, magic a world where if you see a Mexican out to shoot a just felt like the next step in the absurdity of our current political insanity. So yeah, I think you have to you have to be willing to go all the way and be offensive because you know, shooting. Anybody is offensive and guns to me are ridiculous that you could go out and buy the salts weapon. And. It's a legal maneuver here in this country is just incredibly absurd. So the contradictions and the blatant disregard for humanity demonstrated by Republicans there probably won't be tied. Where Americans will be required to she'd somebody Mexican on spec. But you know, it doesn't seem so far fetched given what given the wild west environment that the United States seems to be to take as literal. These obviously satirical aspects of this story betrays an unwillingness to see things as they are a things are as bad as they are and are likely to get far worse. The think you're right about that really think you do this story is you switch from the to the we. And I think one of its final lines is we me would you talk about that those transitions via. The engine is question is going to be one of those unfortunate examples of of looking behind the curtain and demystifying that blah, blah, blah. And with the story was originally written. It was done from the we perspective in type, and when it was originally published. That's how it was for me to turn it into something that fit into the book. I couldn't keep it from that perspective. But yet there was something about that perspective that I did wanna keep and so that was kind of he end-run loophole. I found strategically to handle it some of the stories originally written. It wasn't originally written to be part of any book considerably not a block with any sort of satire. It was just ridden to be a piece that was doing a series of pieces set on the subway, but I didn't have any grand idea. What that could mean beyond a writing. But your subway story. His and when I did fashion the book a better class of people together I had to go back into some of the pieces and make them go together make it fit. And so that was how the I and the we got played with in particular story. Another interesting thing in this in this story is and this is I think a preoccupation of the characters in I think in many of the stories there's a preoccupation with toes and fingers reminds me of Sammy Delaney's characters preoccupation with feed and Gary lutzes characters with four arms. What is it about feeding toes with these characters? I think I just this past week. So my students again, I Paul is referring to. But it's just it's what I do so much of that. It's a seems that I have to include it everything I said. My student. It's good to give your doctor obsession of some sort very often for me when I when I'm putting a character or characters talking through me. They do fixate on hands and toes quite a lot. And then they and I think it's because a those might be a body parts that aren't quite as as rendered in fiction. I mean, I think I don't necessarily a trying to to be different in in. What I do. I'm just trying to be myself. And it just so happens that myself is different. And those are the things I notice as a person out in the world, I notice I notice everything, but I pay particular attention to perhaps other appendages that that others might not and seeing how the maneuver and how people present them is endlessly fascinating to me. It's rare for the characters in your fictions to be name. Md, and whenever there is a name for a character much is made of it in a better class of people. One of your characters is named Esperanza a name, which is weighed with much. Meaning would you talk about names and naming in this book, and in your fiction, generally, like, you said more often than not gone through the populate the fiction aren't named by whether they are buried IRS or main characters or characters that the main characters are engaging with so maims for me are generally left off the page, and I'm perfectly fine with that. I actually joy that our. Yeah, I needed a name for this particular captor, and in this particular book, and it's no it's no surprise that esplanda Spanish touring hope and that this character is. Basically losing touch with. And and hope is remain is remain remains out of out of reach and on the teen of the app. So that those allies in the air force. I couldn't of course, have the main hopes being there being but esta Lonza is such a beautiful name. And of course, this character is Latino, and so some of the other Mames referenced in here also Latino names it felt it felt right? Would you read another story for us? I wanna read ROY which actually does some what we're talking about. This ROY blind. I need to call in ROY Nutt for any other reason than I like the sound of it. Those two months elastic words up against each other and rhyming like boxers one two punch a job in across coming down square on the chin and there were rumors. He like men, and I never wanted to because I did like men, or at least I didn't like them the way ROY was rumored to like them. But I also want him in my quarter because he worked the back of the house, and I need him to do things for me fix things. Get things simple things. So never mind. Boy thought I liked him. And all in all he seemed like a good guy to me, and I didn't care about the rumors. And even when people asked what I thought about ROY. I say, I don't think anything and they'd ask why called him ROY because everyone either called him ROY or Chico even older brother Gordon gotten. The job and was more or less than charge at the back of the house. And I tell them how I'd like to sound the one two punch, and I don't think they ever believe me. I think they thought there was more to good bet. But I didn't care because I like this bonanza who are in the front of the house of meat and cheating the truth of it, all or she would note if I ever got her lung, which never happened. And I still don't know why. Because it was clear she liked me too. But then something spooked your, and you can never tell with women, which is something you hear from the back of the house all the time. Even ROY who are like the best out of all them because he'd always to smile of space. Never you went back there to ask him to fix or assemble something not like the rest of them, the others who would Christian Spanish, go you go. If you ask them to do anything that even throw things at you. But you couldn't really blame them because it was awful to work in the back of the house that rotten stale sense getting. Cheer body and coming out of your pores, silken fear. Clothes. The heat bouncing off the walls day and night. There's nowhere to hide from it. Except maybe the walk him when you last long, and they're no matter how hot it was. And so you stumble out into the heat, and you hate yourself and everyone of your coworkers, especially the guys in the back of the house, and let me tell you. We back there yet, hold your breath. Try not to let those bastards gets you how they harass all the women from the front of the house, including rounds up who's their favorite because of the tight skirts and sweaters, and they drop you tunnels on the floors. So she'd have to bend over to pick them up and they'd all moving holler that everyone will laugh and laugh, including Ronza, who's a good sport. Even with those devils, which was one of the reasons I always liked her until they went too far beyond permitted to talk about that even still she was only classy never went along with us telling Ray in the. Most of the two of them. I s agents were in the house and asking questions heating mention you by name or how do you like that? And to this day. I don't know might have stood there except to say that one night will be close together and have a couple of drinks in the bar after work and ask your question or two and she answered by saying I can't answer question. Like that. It's too personal. And we'll leave it. They are other of the story the mystery. Yes, another story, which character is named this case. It's a name that rhymes which is a kind of repetition. I wonder if you might talk about your use of repetition in this fiction and throughout your fiction. Yeah. I mean for me repetition and refrain repairs are things that are essential in. And I can't get away from them when I put something together. And I think it has something to do with music, and how all these whether it is jazz classical or. Or folk music of any kind that the refrain is the part that is evocative and is somehow viscerally impacting the lead the listener. And so when I put together language whether writing fiction and working to nonfiction right now, there is a refrain that I always come back to and become something of touchstone or chorus that is meant to impact the reader and every time we encounter it. I wanted to have a different feeling based on the context of where we are in the piece of so for me repetition refrain curtian is critical. It seems to me that our lives are repetitive. Even if we seek to make them not feel that way, they are indeed that way and to employ techniques that reflects that feels to me appropriate about maybe three years ago. Now, we were talking about the Dessel, Tori state of things. And I think I was bemoaning how or both of us were bemoaning. How people were saying what do we do? Now, what can be done, and you had said, well, we need to do what we do best. We right. So I wonder if you might talk a bit more about that. Well. You know, the they're only several things happening. Once rated an course, there's going to be a certain amount of him ringing. And and a feeling that it is hopeless. We're trying to hold back the tide with a broom. You. There's nothing to be dumb to Samuel Beckett's nothing to be done. However for while. We're here it is incumbent upon us to try to do what it is. We do best in an effort to resist, and and feels I remember reading about where we're to and and and watching movies, and it felt so you know, it felt some exotic in from another world that there was a resistance resisting a fascist regime that will resist amount wiping out millions of of Europeans. And I never thought they have my life. Even though I thought that the United States was bound to crumble from within at some point. I never thought. That it would come at the hands of of vapid Sacha Mus celebrity who was as ENA Rene. As anybody I've ever seen in real life or on TV or read about and in the face of this in the face of of a fascist taking over the country and him being championed and enabled by too large, a legion of supporters that us speaking out and doing what we do if feels like there's never been a more important time to be an artist to put another piece of our into the world. And if you'd like there's never been a more important time to be journalists part of of what, you know, whether we are a fiction or nonfiction, we are talking feels like to be alive and on the planet in the year twenty nineteen and doing here in the United States America that we're doing it here in this country right now at a critical time. I feel like it is it is our responsibility as writers artists to to to be can to to talk about it as an active resistance and as an act of journalism. And this is what it was like this is what it was like here in twenty nineteen America. Maybe if people keep reading and keeping joying are insane. Twenty fifty one hundred two hundred years, they might happen across some of these works and get something from it. Thanks so much robber for being on their transmission. Thank you very much for having been a pleasure that does it for our show. Thanks listening to jamming. Their transmission? I'm John Madeira. Until next time and always be the strange wished to see the world.

writer Robert Lopez Wallace Stevens United States America Samuel Beckett Paul Bettis John madeira John Madera Donald Trump Oval Office ROY Nutt Joe shoot Chris Barrett House magazine New York foundation Los Angeles president Barra
Stupid, Stupid Voters

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

39:02 min | 4 months ago

Stupid, Stupid Voters

"They friends armstrong. And getty. Here and mike. Lindell the inventor and ceo of my pillow wants to give back to our listeners. You can get great discounts on all my pillow products right now. Mypillow dot com click on the radio listener. Special get deep discounts on my pillow mattress toppers towels and much more. For example. mike is offering a buy one. Get one offer on giza dream. Sheet sets the best sheets. You'll ever own go to mypillow dot com. Click on the radio listener square and use the promo code getty. That's mypillow dot com. Use the code getty broadcasting live from the abraham lincoln radio studio the george washington broadcast center jack armstrong and getty stronger energy armstrong and getty. He's got a text from the white flash. He's locked out not clear. Whether just locked out of the studios or standing there in the entry other nevermind determine how far locked out of the building or just on the list is right over there. You think you can always count on. I'm happy to happen. But it's kinda funny locks on the doors for protecting something but if you not done the door somebody will open absolutely as cracked security style. Welcome to the show today. Were under the tutelage of our general manager. I didn't want to go with critical race theory. Even though it's you know around here it's a little It's it's a well worn topic. i am i just. I'm getting the feeling is starting to penetrate the american consciousness. people are finally starting to realize. Wait that it's not just like not being a racist. This is something new and weird. Yeah i listened to one of my favorite podcasts. The other day and this was all harvard lawyers and they were talking about. This is just so tired. I mean we. We went through this at harvard in the early nineties. These discussions have been had. And i thought okay because it was a thing for you at harvard in the early nineties. We're all tired of this. I guarantee a up until the last couple of weeks. Most people had never even heard of critical race theory. Let alone heard all the arguments and had the debate. that's tiny tiny percentage of the population apologies. To all of those of you who went to harvard and are tired of the topic discussed it nearly ninety so that's kind of funny. Yeah so we never talked anything about that. Dang bill that they voted on yesterday that Stopped at the vote of fifty fifty and had to be sixty forty to get it to continue. Its every media outlet on portrays it as interpreted as voting rights legislation when it was an attempt for the federal government to take over elections from the states which most people think is unconstitutional. Anyway even passed it the spring court. Say no the us. It's in the constitution states. Decide how they're going to vote right. We had a record turnout last election. Among all demographic groups engenders record turnout what is the whole voter suppression thing. I just died. I don't get it plus. It doesn't make any difference states. Get to do it. It's a state thing. yeah. I haven't been paying attention to it very much for that very reason. It's never gonna go anywhere. Although i mistake especially these days because an idea that starts with starts as utterly unworkable stupid ridiculous it starts to gain momentum and before you know people taking more seriously or twisting. Themselves into unconstitutional knots to get it done. All it is as you point out is a federalizing of all elections to concentrate more power in washington. Dc now founding fathers wanted to balance the federal government with the state's power so that the federal government didn't run over the entire country anyway so well yeah. Let me point out that if you concentrate all of the electoral power. The electing the power to run elections. I should say in one place in one set of hands that makes it possible for that set of hands to defraud the entire country. So that's our coverage of that. We gave you two and a half minutes on a topic that for a lot of cable news channels and for a lot of radio shows has been every hour for several weeks but that is are two and a half minute breakdown of that. It was unconstitutional. It was never going to go anywhere at the end. It's virtue signaling. It's it's pandering to the base. So i heard Report at least in some areas of the country where the covert is going up. Virtually every case is people that didn't get vaccinated of course not surprisingly not surprising. So i don't want to do yet. The new variant going around. Yes take your chances. I mean if you're if you're not if you're not old then your healthy you'll be fine. Probably if you get it. So yeah probably. Although the lasting damage this beast can cause really troubling. it's in a low percentage of cases put. It's it's a little bit scary on the other hand because we are actually fair and balanced. I have really good Little look at the risks to the vaccine. Now there are apparently are some. it's been understudied and under publicized because our public messaging is purpose messaging these days. It's not getting you the facts so you can decide. It's crafting the message so that you will do. What the powers that be want you to do. In the case of the vaccine i think is probably a good idea to go ahead and get it. But again people differ. There appear to be some very rare but significant risks. Another topic to get to As we keep pointing out crime is climbing the ladder as the most important topic for people in america because crime has gone up so much and our perception. That crime has gone up so much as they're also well so the president was gonna give a big speech is going to give a big speech on crime and other okay interesting to see how and it's going to be all about guns. Apparently of course. Alright okay so all the car break ins and san francisco or a gun law problem. Sure adding virtually every Shooting in chicago with a gun is with an illegal gun anyway. We'll see what he has to say about that. You know it's teamwork that makes the dream work. That's why we introduce everybody in the squad to kick off the show. There's our technical director michelangelo prison. Buttons flippant dog was pulling levers running some sort of foot pedals. Like it's a church organ. How are you this morning mike. I gotta admit. I'm a little stiff entire. I had to sleep all night on a air mattress. And oh do tell. What on the outs. With the mrs doghouse. Now no nothing like. This is a cartoon from the sixties. We're getting a new bed today. And so i had to move it. Get it ready because it's coming. I'm here at work. And so i had to have the area clear and so i had to bring out the mattress and sleep on that. So and you don't sleep on air mattresses now not particularly. I am fortunate than i can sleep. Well anywhere. I lay down on the floor right now and go to sleep right now while you guys were talking. I'm just a good at sleep. A standing up with we get strapped to something so i don't fall over If if i'm leaning against something i'll be good. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. You're a gate to gate guy when it comes to sleep on. Barack obama sleep before it leaves. Somebody has to wake me up when we land. That's practically transportation. Her teleportation is being teleported unfortunate. Got woken up by the sound of our female cat throwing up which is even just wonderful. Yeah and of course. I woke up the wife and said your cats throwing up. So it's interesting you mentioned. Your cat does not like me. I waking up and saying your cat is throwing her cap. I don't know that. I've heard a cat throw up dog throwing up. Sounds like it's probably similar. It is there is positive. Sean who smile lights up the room. Are you doing quite well. It was This day in history June the twenty third in one thousand nine hundred and eighty nine. Tim burton's batman was released. And i believe that to be probably the agent zero of the whole comic book. Takeover of hollywood bet eventually We find ourselves in today. We're here right. If you want any sort of movie made you have to figure out how to make a comic book character. The center of it and it was darker. Take on the batman. Saga and from my. You know it's just in the last year so that i started watching these comic book movies because my got to the age where he wanted to watch him so i watch him with him and it seems pretty. Clear that all the kids. I've seen them all multiple. It seems that all the big stars in hollywood decided. I guess if i want to work i gotta be in one of these because everyone in my watch think. Wow what's he what she what. What pity hopkins and they also decided. If i'd like to be wealthy for the rest of my life. I can go ahead and throw on this wacky suit and pretend to be the penguin for six weeks filming for instance. I'm fairly certain robert redford. I remember thinking that first time. When i was watching captain america robert redford just as one of one of the movie and then i'm fairly certain robert downey junior films. The last twelve of those movies in a closet. That was just a green screen. I don't even know if you had to be set stuff. Wow yeah. I'm jack armstrong. He's joe getty on this is how did it already get to be wednesday. June twenty third year two thousand twenty one where armstrong getting. We approve of this program. Let's begin now. Officially according to fcc rules and regulations here we go at mark potter waiting. Blobs it under the basket around wears her out on the war ho. What else can you say. The final score sons. One son's one hundred four la clippers one hundred. Three game win on alleyoop. that's cool. Wow hold on. i'm supposed to play this pile of no this snags. Joe's did yeah sean. John's quitting so slacker mind is elsewhere favourite stat of the night from last night's wonderfully entertaining basketball game but the last ninety seconds of the game took thirty three real time. Minute mini reviews. That's that's five reviews as field goals made. Don't even get me started. I know i'm in the minority on that. All get the reviews every time i kind of now a casual sports fan. I used to be a super sports fan. I wouldn't have missed a single. Nba playoff game at all. But i watched when they are not. And i thought the whole that's right. They review these things now. Exciting moment and then everybody stands around for for three four five minutes and it doesn't count all or does count. Yeah what was it. We were reviewing again. I remember and what did you say. The final ninety seconds to thirty three minutes. That's ridiculous ninety seconds of the game took thirty three real time minutes five reviews five field goals made and as a giant nba fan. How many major calls do we all discussed. That changed history that we wish we could. And i don't have any at the top of my head. They didn't always get the cold right. But whatever you move on to no big deal so it's an it's a tv show could trying to get perfectly right and make it more entertaining. Which makes it would mean making it faster. Eight the reviews. I eight my after every punch line and friends you had. We're gonna pause now. He's a group of sociologists. Assess whether joey and ross is relationship is realistic. The way i'm seeing. That is the the. Joey count on for the of man for ten minutes. Those of you who are in the crowd of whether it's baseball or football or whatever what's important you get call right. You're wrong you're wrong. it's entertainment your ratings are going down and i have a feeling this has got something to do with because everything just got slowed down and mucked up and aided slowing it down for the twenty first century yahud marketing plan. How does mailbag look. Please are you kidding me. It's reputation precedes it. That's an interesting stat. Last ninety seconds took over half an hour. you can't do is right all right. Our text line is four one five two nine five. Kfc we'll get to the news today because that's what we do. The armstrong and getty show ground checks on guns. The buying of guns stopped more gun purchases last year than any year in history. Although that's mostly just because people attempted to more guns last year than any year in history by a lot because it became clear that the authorities viewed keeping order as an option right duty and indeed which is workout into that position in a lot of a lot of places almost never mentioned whenever. I hear the story about record gun sales. They're it's a reaction to seeing looting in your town like blocks from where you live and nobody doing anything about it. That's what's making people. Buy guns yeah. Yeah it's funny those Those truths are little inconvenient to the narrative so they don't get much airtime. Well they do here by god and so does the freedom loving quote of the day. Donald jefferson from the letters of thomas jefferson. I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power power to the people says tj. I'm a little behind today. Just throwing mailbag together i I flipped on my computer today. And it said Printer is in error state. Now thought let's see. Most people make errors of judgment in nevada. So evidently my printer is in nevada inclusion. But i'm my have mailbag radiographic mail. Ma'am mail bag yacht and go down you bastards jerry tire round of discussions with that stupid raining tacos song in my head. By the way. Jackson tried to golf with his kids. Yeah it's funny. That came up just yesterday. We were at a park where they had the disc golf polls thought we should go to the big five sporting goods ourselves. One of those special disc golf frisbees. Yeah it's fun. For folks of all ages god once and it was like a backpack full beers and it was a completely different thing than going with my kids. Yeah well let's see longtime listener. First-time mailbag paul non mus rights. Here's the solution to who can compete in which sports solution to the transgender controversy. We no longer for sports is girls. Boys man's women's from now on it'll be double x chromosome or x. Y chromosome gotta y. You're in this sport. No idea other sport period. Some high school sports maybe double x plus x y sports. I see locker. Rooms are x y done moving on then we got this from markey and beautiful denver colorado. Who is a transgender fan of the armstrong. And getty show. I'm a fan. Because i agree with you about seventy percent of the time. That's not a bad batting average. I just wonder. I mean if you agreed with us. One hundred percent of the time. That'd be a little weird off pudding. I mean especially because i will change my mind and then if you changed your mind along with the it's more stocking than friendship. I don't agree with myself. One hundred percent of the marquis. We admire your independence anyway. I just wonder if there's any room in your ideology for the fact that most trans people don't want to be in the olympics or make it unfair. I'll finish the note then respond. We just need some space in the world to live work raise families and be reasonably free from violence that fair. Maybe that's all the. I is trying to establish to transgender suicides. Are an epidemic. Sorry the weightlifting. Competition is skewed but what are the olympics. Really for you know. I'll grant you that. There are very very few parts of life where i would suggest any sort of thinking at all about transgender folks other than human beings than they deserve one hundred percent of their human rights and constitutional rights. I would say in athletic competitions where a former fella brings greater bone density mass. The rest of it. You gotta let the gals compete on the road. That's like the only limitation. So is there room in our ideology for the fact that most people just want to have a happy violence free life. Of course there is of course and if we gave any other impression i apologize for that although i'm not sure we did. Let's see speaking of apologies. with apologies to the great irish playwright. Samuel beckett. sean. We must go on without you. We can't go on without you. We will go on without you. Best to do best wishes and add you. That's very from thailand. I like that word adieu. Do as french for sia later. Nerd vic- you i. That is one of my favorite samuel beckett. Phrases from play I can't go on. i'll go on. Which is a good one for a lot of things in life. True ma hong kong. Great cities of the world is no longer among other things on the left and getty geico knows. There are many reasons why you ride in from the exciting adventure of the daily commute to the peace of mind that gyco always has your back with twenty four seven access to claim service and legendary customer services but pamela had one reason in particular. My skin is extremely averse to most fabrics except for the soft buttery feeling of leather thankfully. I found my clan of leather lovers and the biking community. It's been life changing geigo motorcycle. Fifteen minutes could save you. Fifteen percents or more. The armstrong and getty show president buying is reportedly planning to announce strategy to reduce gun violence this summer but before you give him too much credit. The plan is free knives much credit. The rusty razor blade plan knows days used member the straight race. You bang them onto curve. Getting wrong would have been the rain barrel times. I remember that more on guns in just a second record number of people denied guns do background checks which is probably a good thing but he. We'll talk about that in a second also Y single people smell different and The most mispronounced words. So we'll get to those. Wow okay is a grammar national socialists. I can't wait for the mispronounced words. One trying to decide what order do this. I guess i'll go with a kind of breaking news out of hong kong. The pro democracy hong kong newspaper. The apple daily got nothing to do with apple. The company that makes iphones. Let's in bed with the communists The apple daily there in hong kong is closing down after twenty six years following the arrest of its executives under china's new national security law so the pro democracy newspaper is done and In remers kind of signaling. This as the official end of hong kong as the world knew at one of the greatest cities that ever came to be in the history of the planet is now just part of china s. He said winner. Beijing loser press freedom democracy and hong kong. So that's that and find myself thinking back to win. It was announced that the british were giving hong kong back in the. Yeah yeah two. Two systems one country. We're fine we'll just let it be and i. I wonder what the attitudes were among the millions of hong kongers at that point if they trusted the communists or didn't if they were optimistic or or what well up until fairly recently that i thought oh seems to be working more or less okay but When china decided they wanted to take it they took it and to me the most interesting part of the story is how the world kind of yawns only the biggest financial markets dual beacon of freedom in the middle of a communist Whoever nap part of it's there are no alternatives. I think it'd a little more noise about it. Wouldn't you well. I i know in the us with one of our most serious diseases is taking liberty for granted. People don't understand what means so. That's that so as i mentioned in twenty twenty background checks blocked the most gun sales ever quite possibly until this year. Because we're still setting records every month with gun sales as we mentioned earlier What's leading to gun sales and this is left out of the story. All the time has people looking around them and seeing that. There's mayhem and the police either. Don't do anything about it or aren't allowed to do anything about it depending on where you live. So there's that the number of people stop from buying guns through the background check system hidden all time high of more than three hundred thousand last year amid a surge of firearm sales breaking just smashing all records the fbi number provided to the associated press. Show that background checks blocked nearly twice as many gun sales in two thousand twenty year before but they say that just keeps in line with the record sales surge so about twice as many guns were sold in two thousand twenty s two thousand nineteen of obviously the background check thing went up about forty. Two percent of those denials were because the would be buyers had felony convictions on the records. And we're supposed to get a gun so that's pretty much the way it's supposed to work. It's an interesting move is a convicted felon to go ahead and do the paperwork. Maybe they just hadn't heard or does it work you know. Does it work enough of the time that you just try several times and eventually get a gun or your felon buddy said yeah. I went over there and bought a gun off from apm. The increase in blocked gun sales largely tracks with the record setting sales. As i said blah blah blah comes as congress. Bob skip that Blah blah okay. The every towns research from that sixteen percent would be gun buyers in two thousand twenty where prohibited by state law state laws like extreme risk protection orders or red flag orders which we've heard a lot about another twelve percent were related to domestic violence involved in that and then he can't buy a gun so i don't know all of those could get a little sketchy and being the eye of the beholder. The just plain you're a felon. Those are the laws on the books. If you don't like him off to change the laws I certainly understand the very good intent on denying people who've been involved in domestic violence of firearms does not escalate to the truly horrific. But is it is. It got to be a conviction everywhere. Because i mean an accusation doesn't mean anything in constitutional right now. It doesn't it absolutely doesn't you know and it's a troubling thing and i understand. There's there's a part of me that just wants to shut up and keep The generally the woman safe. But i don't know you just can't play fast and loose with constitutional issues like that. So the speaking of law and order in new york. They voted for mayor yesterday in the The test at least in new york city of ranked choice voting and eric adams the former police captain and running on law and order won pretty handily or at least had the most i most the i choose him first votes. Eric adams at thirty two percent distant but in second place the socialist take a billion dollars out of nypd. Maya wiley who is a adorned by. Aoc and is just a crazy person. The story that came out over the weekend that might have heard some of our votes. I don't know if you saw this typical of these sorts of people. She lives in a gated community. That have guards at the gate to make sure nobody gets in. Oh so nice. So she won't take a billion dollars out of the pay but she lives in a gated community. This is a thing tucker carlson's always talking about the rich and powerful. Who who who. Who think we're being too tough on homeless by you know by boom off the streets or wanted to fund. The police are all these different kinds of things. They live in a gated communities and have their own police force more or less right almost people around. They don't have to worry about the cops. None of this stuff. Is you often point out. The the great leaders that the directors through our pathetic little lives are in favor of open borders. They never have their neighborhood. Flooded with people who don't speak the language don't know the culture depend on social services the rest of it. They've heard about it. They've heard rumors about it but they've never seen it one of the problems with ranked choice voting is. It takes long to figure out who's going to win so in a normal election. Eric adams of just be the winner. Big because it's ranked choice. They have to tabulate all this stuff. And even though he had about a ten point lead over second-place. They said it's going to take weeks before the mayoral primary winner can be announced. Is that because of that because players computer programs right. There's gotta be an app for that got. You would think the computer would just crunch that immediately. Eliminate the bottom to vote getters where their second place votes go but so explain to me how he couldn't win so if if he was like. Nobody's second choice and maya wiley. Got all the second choice votes and a whole bunch of third she could win is that we got it essentially. Yeah yeah once. They're the people who had like the bottom. I don't know how many votes how many candidates they eliminate in the first round but say it was too if Every single one of those people then turned to their second choice because their first choice was was booted out and every single one of those was the crazy socialist woman in the gated community than presumably. She'd win andrew yang who lead in the polls for much of the election. He is the only one who conceded last night. He came in at eleven points but he said i'm not going to be the mayor of new york and conceited. Because he's that kind of guy but it's interesting just on name recognition. He ran in. I place for a long time. Plus in this is follow. His his He just was his message. Might have got him mayor a year ago or two years ago but the crime wave overtook the election. And the guy that ran from the beginning on law and order the former police chief just seemed right for the moment which is the way elections often work. This is worth pointing out. Though the socialist finished second in that race a socialist candidate stunned in buffalo. India walton progressive challenger. Running her first campaign as a socialist is on track to become the first socialist mayor of a big city and sixty years. The united states of america buffalo. We'll have the first socialist mayor in this country in a city of any size in sixty years while. That's gotta be a symptom of tiny tiny turnout. You know her activist crazy. Supporters turned out avid. Mr and mrs buffalo ignored it. Probably like they do most primary elections. I would think is buffalo. Some some center of soviet thought aware of and what was the one other thing i wanted to go to. This was worth mentioning. Just because i saw it on the tv. They're making a big deal out of the fact that the a high proportion of people getting the covid now are younger and black on. It also fits in with the demographics of people who are not getting the vaccine. For some reason the media is a really into the whole trump. voters won't get the vaccine but when it comes to black people not getting the vaccine at some other reason well. It's explained by a very reasonable suspicion of the medical establishment established because of historical inequities blah blah blah. Some of which you know maybe legitimate but a lot of it's like one hundred twenty five years ago. Well it's just the fact that the two most likely groups to decide. I don't want to get the vaccine are black males and And a lower income white males right. And as i was starting to say if it's the black folks they search for perfectly reasonable academic sounding explanations. If it's the trump voters it's because they're stupid there's dumb stupid stupid trump voters smarts skeptical black people. I mean it's just so pathetic. Speaking of controversial issues final note on the whole transgender thing. A really interesting editorial written by a transgender felon newsweek. We featured parts of it yesterday but he makes them really really important points. That i want everybody to hear. We'll do that among other. I got why single people smell different and just for joe because the scratches and worry it is the ten most mispronounced words. Yes yes wait at least four of them. I do regularly. Oh boy get your words straight jack. One of my one of my. I don't even know what it is. I don't ever say it so okay. Well i appreciate you doing this to save me that the you know squirming every time i hear. It must be torture. It's very very hard. Line is four one five two nine five k. ftc getty the armstrong and getty show country. China is currently engaged in the biggest public relations campaign in world. History interesting way to look at it and they're good at it and the world needs to be aware of it and Kudos in your times for the work that they put in on digging this up. We'll talk about an hour to i. Suppose and it's all about the in concentration camps and everything and speaking of that sort of thing messaging and proper ganda. What are the risks of the vaccine. What do we know at this point. What are we looking into There have been so many Sorts of opinions that are declared forbidden. You're not allowed to express them. How dare you suggest that. Perhaps the virus leak from the wuhan institute. We're going to silence you. Well we're not going to engage in that we're not going to you know have the ends justify the means. We're going to give you the full picture. Let you decide so stay tuned for that as well wanted to bring this to you. It's a it's a piece written in newsweek by a forty eight year old transgender male. Who went through a absolute medical nightmare and looked into it and realized that so much of the transgender stuff. The surgery the medicine. It's experimental and there are no standards. There are no baselines for care in the rest of it remembers one. Remember that famous book. Guy that was written about that name as bandit Yeah absolutely and and then the other area of concern he writes about is how once you express interest in in perhaps you. Maybe i should transition. Maybe i'm i have gender dis for you That you get swept up into this under this conveyor belt of enthusiasm and the counseling in the meetings are just encouraging you. Nobody ever says. Wait a minute there might be other issues. Going on here. And i'll i'll pick it up from there. What he writes. Trans activists tout studies. That show medically transitioning gender questioning. Children improves mental health. But those studies have often been retracted in those retractions under reported by the media moreover no long term studies have been conducted on children who grow up without the benefit of natural puberty talking about the puberty blockers. No studies at all have been done on d. Transitioning people returned to identifying their natal sex. What are the psychological effects. No-one has a clue and researchers too often shutdown by cancel culture for even raising the questions. Peer reviewed studies show a shocking correlation between gender. Ya autism depression anxiety eating disorders and other co morbidity additionally. It seems that many of these children are simply gay. Could pushing people out a one way path. The medical transition be a different form of conversion therapy. I think it is for kupfer completely different reasons. But i think it's not shocking to me at all that and a feminine boy. That's just gay. But he identifies more with the girls. Because i've known. I've known gay guys who say i like to play with dolls. And that was my first inkling and my parents notice. I played that the dolls of the girls. And the boys you know then they. He wasn't a female trip. In a male body he was gay right and for whatever reason had more effeminate leanings. And it's it's a weird sort of of prejudice. That okay if you are that sort of a guy you're not a guy at all. I mean that's like ugly stuff of the past. Yeah it is. It is ugly stuff of the past. It's a weird You can't be a feminine male. Mm okay we had we. We got past that and here for like a the last two decades. We've been okay with the effeminate male and particularly being gay of him. Now we've decided if you're infringement mail no you'll clearly need some sort of surging needed just change into a different person right. And he goes on to write full do but not nearly the numbers that we're seeing right. We need to ask and study these hard questions for the good of all children. But we're not not in the mainstream media and certainly not in president. Joe biden's new administration. And here's an irony folks. America's proceeding down its path of total affirmation just as other countries restoring greater balance this past december. The uk high court of justice ruled that puberty blockers for minors are both experimental. And they one way ticket to permanent transition finland in two thousand twenty completely overhauled. Its approach to treating minors with gender dis for prioritizing psychotherapeutic noninvasive interventions and recognizing. That adolescence is a time of major identity exploration. Yeah don't make permanent decisions as a teenager in other words. Sweden of all places conducting a systematic literature review of the scientific basis of the long term effects on physical and mental health of puberty blockers and hormones. The researcher championed the dutch protocol which was like super liberal for transgender stuff. Recently called for rethink said. We have to take a serious look at what we've been doing. We've gone too far while other research is beginning to show that the current one size fits all status. Quo is too limited so for now waking up to the fact that gender does four years over simplistically inflated with transgenderism medical treatments have understudied long-term consequences. Some are getting rich off transgender medicine. D transitions are speaking up in skyrocketing numbers. Why are we only making it easier for children. Unquestionably transition got. It's just horrible. To think about you know all the steps forward that had been taken so that if you you know if you're a teenager figuring this out and you realize you're gay or you're not like most of your friends or whatever but now this whole thing gets thrown on top of it. Oh my god right right ruutel well. And and this gent. He wrote that he finally realized he just couldn't accept himself as a masculine lesbian. Any thought now that can't be right. I just no no. No no i know what it is. It's gender dis for so for some people. Psychologically and i'm not gonna dig deep. Because i don't have the ability nor the you know the personal knowledge to do it but for some people it's easier to accept that. Oh i meant to be a dude. Then now i'm a woman. I'm just a fairly masculinity lesbian whether it's social pressure or i don't know what it is. But i tell you one thing to take away from this. One hundred percent needs writes about this eloquently it's posted under hotlinks armstrong and getty dot com. We need to slow down particularly when it comes to kids know rushing kids along the conveyor belt if they got to transition they can do wonder dolts player societies weird in so many ways we get whipped up into enthusiasms and just go way too far. I gotta call an audible. There's something we we meant to early. Today we gotta do next segment to kick out the second hour and that's the shocking stats out of a harvard. Study about immigration policies lately. Different than what you would Would be led to believe by the media. Cable news everything you're hearing i. I got the list of the most irritating mispronunciations top ten top of it is specifically instead of specifically. I don't hang out with people who say that now probably a probably instead of probably is just being in a hurry. I don't think that's a mispronunciation. So if i'm voting to hawaii i specifically take the pacific right exactly. I'll get to more of those next hour. They'll make angrier as we get further down the list. Every hour on the podcast. Armstrong and getty com armstrong and getty own. America is an amazing country filled with wonderful people who do incredible things a mcdaniel and this is real. America paid for by the republican. National committee not authorized any candidate or candidates committee. Www dot the gop dot com.

getty armstrong harvard jack armstrong federal government george washington broadcast ce Dang bill hong kong mike robert redford America joe getty mark potter la clippers Eric adams samuel beckett Donald jefferson jerry tire
The Unborn Future: Lecture # 2 | Lessons Learned

Ideas

55:04 min | 4 months ago

The Unborn Future: Lecture # 2 | Lessons Learned

"You're smart funny friends. Who always seem to have the best celebrity gossip. I'm talking about the ones who always know. We should be watching reading or listening to or what have you can pick their brains every week. Pop is a brand new podcast but does exactly that and feels like spending time with your best friends. So join me. Alina mahmoud and a panel of the smartest culture critics that i know as we dissect the discourse but also have a great time doing it. This is a cbc podcast. The truth is the twin achievements of astounding wealth an astounding. Mass production are fundamental byproducts of philosophies oldest dream attempt to know the external world and to that extent tame remake and conquer it too iowa i add and today on ideas philosopher. Todd defraigne gives the second lecture in our series climate change and the unborn future in his first lecture. Defraigne argued that climate change is inseparable from capitalism. Today he sets his sights on another target. One that doesn't usually get much blame. Western philosophy his contention. Is that the enlightenment. And all its values of freedom and individuality have turned us all into slaves of free market ideology. We are all now branded products. Just the same hogs an unending parade of phony mass individualism and pseudo radicalism. Such as the freedom to consume different argues that western values compel us to focus on economic growth over and above all else after his lecture will hear a response to his arguments by lee phillips a writer and journalist and co author of the book the republic of walmart. I would prefer to convince these people on the green left. I mean the reality is that we do face a significant climate crisis in biodiversity crisis. I want to win them over to evidence base physicians that actually benefit working people incident wagging their finger at the fact that they bought a barbie doll at walmart now to todd frayne with his second lecture. He calls it lessons learned. We often say the climate change is driven by an economic system that begins with industrial capitalism. And it's true but the system creates more than harmful pollution. It also creates a certain kind of society in particular a consumer society that impoverishes the masses. And enriches a small subset of people. The plutocrats consider a few telling measures of global inequality in twenty nineteen a little more than twenty one hundred billionaires owned as much wealth as almost five billion people roughly ten trillion dollars or sixty percent of total world. Wealth and twenty twenty one billionaire alone. Jeff bezos made more than thirteen million dollars per hour which works out to over fifty thousand dollars in the time it takes from to utter this sentence. This means that basil's increased his existing wealth during the first year of the covid pandemic and world depression by about seventy four billion dollars. Seventy four billion in one year. That's over two hundred million dollars a day as a cheeky. Headlining g. q. Rightly declares billionaires are the leading cause of climate change however capitalism is billionaire. Class couldn't and didn't do it alone. A fact made less frequently than the one about the economic system. It's just this. The world making unmaking power of capitalism was made possible by an entire worldview justice historically significant as economics and that worldview is western philosophy. This assertion may seem like hyperbole or the empty. Musings of someone enamored with paradox. Winking irony but philosophy was never just an account and critique of every day it was from the outset anchor to its opposite namely to the state apparatus that includes the exploitation policing and miseration of the masses. In point of fact this very particular philosophic system helped rationalize determine the basic virtues or anti virtues of our global economic system individualism rational efficiency competition egoistic read and rank viciousness. The truth is the twin achievements of astounding wealth and astounding. Mass production are fundamental byproducts of philosophies oldest dream the attempt to know the external world and to that extent tame remake and conquer it to for this marriage of knowledge and craft epistemology technology is quite simply the grand project of western knowledge and by extension western imperialism. The signal importance of philosophy to this project will no doubt surprise. Some people including marxists since the status of philosophy has rarely been less assured than in the contemporary world but the marginalization of philosophy is a defining feature of the project of philosophy. And here's why it was philosophy that i advanced and systematized the values of reason inefficiency. That made possible one. By one all the other disciplines reason inefficiency each of which fashioned its own theories and practices and turn it was philosophy that set the instrumental world in motion and so it came to be that philosophy proper was eclipsed in the contemporary world or as martin heidegger once put it meditative thinking was eclipsed by calculated thinking nowadays. The cart of economics leads the horse of contemplation. Universities which it's nice to think once knew better against the flow of instrumentality thoughtlessness. I'd like to start with a big question. What are the philosophical conditions of the current climate crisis and since our time is short. I'd like to skip to the obvious. Although finally unsatisfying answer which is twofold first condition enlightenment humanism the belief that the natural world revolves around human interests and second condition philosophic rationalism the belief that human reason is the lever for moving the world to our will together they comprise a significant driver of our world today over the course of roughly three hundred years humanism and reasons start out as the answer to every question but become over the last hundred and fifty the question behind every answer scientism the belief that science and technology will save us combined with the almost perverse evacuation of meaning by managers efficiency experts and positive effects of every stripe have come to ruin the aspirational ideals of freedom progress happiness and universal fellowship in other words. The promise of the enlightenment turned into its dialectical. Opposite in other words the promise of the enlightenment told into its dialectical opposite. Unfreedom the famous diagnosis of theodor adorno and the frankfurt school those famous killjoys of modern life in the west freedom they teach has been abandoned for consumption progress for triumphalism universal fellowship for a winner. Takes all individualism. So although humanism and reason begin as radical ways of revaluing all values hitherto for example by debunking superstition prejudice and religious literal ism. They later morph into highly conservative tools for policing thought and action. They later morph into highly conservative tools for policing thought and action. In effect reason became part of a regime of terror and rejecting. it wasn't just the duty of radical subjects from samuel beckett. Thelonious monk to andy warhol little richard but the feature of the postmodern condition. According to this condition high culture must be undone by low the authentic by the hybrid the sacred the profane and humanism bite anti humanism or more fashionably yet by post humanism in effect reason became part of regime of terror and rejecting. It wasn't just the duty of radical artists from samuel beckett and thelonious monk to andy warhol and little richard but the feature of the postmodern condition. According to this condition high culture must be undone by the low the authentic by the the sacred by the profane and humanism by anti humanism or more fashionably yet by post humanism over the decades. The beards flowers and denham of the baby boomers have simply been swapped out for the man buns tattoos eyelash extensions and painted eyebrows other. Children the millennials but capitalism same as it ever was had merely perfected the magic of conjuring enormous profits no matter which fashion political party or source of protein. One happened to embrace. We are all now branded products. Just the same cogs in an unending parade of phony mass individualism and pseudo radicalism such as the freedom to consume as the american public intellectual. Thomas frank argues the rebellious subjects of the sixties quickly traded in sex drugs and rock and roll for investment portfolios lipo section and wall street. We're all now branded products. Just the same cogs in an unending parade of phony mass individualism and pseudo radicalism. Such is the freedom to consume as the american public intellectual. Thomas frank argues the rebellious subjects of the nineteen sixties quickly traded in sex drugs and rock and roll for investment portfolios liposuction and wall street. The real legacy of boomer politics isn't therefore black rights. Gay rights and women's rights the impetus of which started in the nineteen fifties. The real legacy is ronald reagan margaret thatcher the cult of mine rand and the rise of an increasingly vicious form of right wing populism. The real legacy is globalization in the rollback progressive values for that indeed is how things shook out in the nineteen eighties and nineties especially in the united states when boomers ascended to positions of power in every field in the forces of globalization assured that the rest of us would follow instead of progressive ideals universal healthcare pharma care and high quality education to many citizens in the wealthy west got capitalist realism the military industrial complex and tax cuts instead of progressive leadership. We got politicians like bill. Clinton and tony blair instead of progressive leadership. We got politicians like bill. Clinton and tony blair to proper names like reagan and thatcher that functioned today as proxies for the complete capitulation of the left to the beliefs of the neoliberal. Right by the time. This remarkable capitulation was over democratic politician. Barack obama would become and the irony is intended the best republican president in recent. Us history only deep history of racism toward black men can explain why so many conservative republicans nonetheless aided him by the time. This remarkable capitulation over democratic politician barack obama would become and the irony is intended the best republican president in recent. Us history the deep history of racism towards black men can explain why so many conservative republicans nonetheless hated him. Ask for liberal democrats. They were satisfied with the warm. And fuzzy gains. Made an identity politics and the symbolism conferred by obama's two-term presidency but the consequences were disastrous. And not just for the victims of his drone. Moore's in the middle east for when obama simply continued the democratic absorption of neo liberal beliefs and policies. He inadvertently did something far worse than selling out. His party's values like clinton before him. He ended up pushing doctrinaire conservatives. Even further away into tea party libertarianism conspiracy theories trumpism and cunanan lunacy and that simply put his how both us liberals and conservatives pave the way for the kind of demagoguery evil at its core that plato wrote about over two thousand years ago. This is the city in high fever and with it the tyranny. Plato warned us about the consequence not merely of unjust souls but of marrying bad philosophy. Too bad economics. Of course it's important to recall that the us was not alone in these regards. Let's not forget italian. Prime minister silvio berlusconi the billionaire trailblazer of sleaze and corruption or more recently. Uk prime minister boris johnson. Brazil president geijer bolsonaro and in canada. A string of conservative running from ontario premier. Mike harris to prime minister stephen harper to toronto mayor rob ford to his brother the premier of ontario doug ford and beyond over and over again citizens in the west have been subjected to one more embarrassingly infantile man child elected after another. All the trust funds bunga bunga parties prostitutes secret dealmaking golfing trips. Absurd expense accounts billionaire. Funded campaigns pork barrel politics gerrymandering of voting districts stupid populace mantras crack pipes wall street recruitments lobbyists who right bills voter suppression schemes. Tax cuts for the rich trickle down nonsense. Ubs guts abnormal haircuts and hair dye running down the temple absurdities that finally exhaust the limits of parody and late night punch lines in truth this parade of serving up twenty four hour reality programs of nonstop horror austerity for the masses on the one hand privatized enrichment for their overlords on the other socialize losses and privatized gains a wall street fantastically disconnected from the reality. Not just of main street. But of the earth upon which we live and work the economy appear simulation signifying nothing finally but itself like catastrophic climate. Change this dystopia of the day is in part our own fault. We did this. We created these monsters or better put. We failed to stop the plutocrats and their minions as they brazenly openly unapologetically cooked our tax systems cooked. Our education systems cooked are voting systems cooked. Our environmental laws cooked our politicians and then lied repeatedly about it all through the media outlets often owned so that they could amass fortunes even thousands of dollars a second every hour of every day. That would make the robber barons of old blush with shame. We applauded and then elected these monsters or let them still elections and they have never stopped punishing us for our remarkable apathy. Dimwitted nece foolishness and less just admitted are false consciousness but to be fair individual agencies. Nothing next to the economic and philosophical structures the created the modern world for these structures function like black holes sucking all human agency and resistance into the void rendering the dystopia effect of it all seemingly unavoidable naturalized wonder we accept the live at there is no alternative and no wonder we fall back on consumerism shopping. Our way out of depression or more easily yet. Changing the channel to something less disturbing. So yes the ancient project of western philosophy most especially marriage of reason. Humanism has a lot to apologize for while it enabled and rationalized the expansion of human ambitions creating incredible monuments to civilization ego and white male pride and while it generated unimaginable wealth for those lucky enough to be born into the right demographic in the right country in the righty paw it also established and then accelerated all the conditions associated with catastrophic climate change. These changes include mass suffering and death. In the form of droughts wars dislocations extreme weather events the sixth mass extinction and almost certainly. Here's my bet. The end of civilization as we have known and enjoyed it over the last seventy years or so. Let's keep all this in mind when we confront what i take to be. The three big lessons of law sophy in the anthropology and condition first lesson we are only now living with the most extraordinary consequences of western reason and humanism for this project is not a feature of the distant past something we overcame and left behind but the omnipresent source of all the colossal changes to the natural world that are tear forming the planet today. The first lesson. We're only now living with the most extraordinary consequences of western reason and humanism for this project is not a feature of the distant past something we overcame and left behind but the omnipresent source of all the colossal changes to the natural world that are tariff warming the planet. Today we might even say with only the slightest exaggeration. The what is flooding burning. Baking drying freezing and pummeling us all is the concrete manifestation of western humanism itself because now the natural world really does revolve around human interest concerns and ideas bottom line. Climate catastrophe is the concrete manifestation of three hundred years of western thinking and doing second lesson. It's nonetheless clear that we can't address the challenges of this refashioned planet without the continued use of reason humanism if the cat astrada climate change requires more reason and indeed more humanism than ever before. Why because only human beings not trees bees and ocean currents can curate the results. Let's be blunt about it. Nature doesn't care if we survive only human beings do so best we get to work saving what we can where we can in the ways that only human beings can the third and most difficult lesson. Is this anthropogenic. Climate change therefore demands of us a kind of absolute responsibility for the conditions. We have wrought. We broke it. We own it. There are no escapes possible. Beyond the intelligence creativity reason in care we bring to this collective problem so yes. The project of western philosophy helped determine not just the weather but the geologic shift called the anthropoids scene and sure that means the west in particular is responsible but this unexpected regrettable and tragic result. No more vitiates. The use of reason for our collective good than the horrors of the holocaust vitiates the use of census data for advancing social welfare. The failure of technical know how in instrumental reason in the twentieth century while tremendous is no excuse to embrace unreason or a rationality or pretend that there is any position outside of human reason from whence we might stand virtuously as it were above all the effects of humanism of course doubling down on reason humanism is ironic and even discomforting especially for the critics of reason and humanism including myself but no matter our complicity with human destructiveness mary to our capacity for reason. Self criticism are major planks of any meaningful pathway forward as paradoxical or contradictory as it may seem. Were now obliged to reason our way out of a situation that was in part caused by the perversion of reason itself. By the same token we must rethink the domains of western philosophy and economics. We certainly don't have to respect the old shibboleth about the unified subject of human reason and so called rational man theory both of which are laughably naive and have been since at least the time of nature as even some economists now admit. Our decisions are very often. Anything but rational. The same point holds for the reign of homo economic us if we can agree that the economic system is created by imperfect human beings and isn't of the natural world then we are free to reject its distillation to the bill binary of reason and unreason rich and poor elites and masses. In other words. There really are alternatives to a planet destroying capitalism together. We fashioned this unjust society and together. We can and must do better refashioning it all again but differently. Accordingly we must work both with and against the humanist capitalist systems that made it all possible to these ends i suggest we rethink five of the defining features of human existence. Most of which overlap in important ways which i'll mention in descending order of difficulty i at the political level the masses must embrace legitimate street level movements for social justice such as black lives matters and the reasonable aspirations such as reallocating police budgets. If we ever hope to create a meaningful uprising based on social justice and equality the key is creating loose coalitions of as many people as possible from across every class race gender and age grouping not only to protect the vulnerable who risk their lives with such actions but to render state and police violence impractical and in time null and void for if the vast majority of citizens agreed that we must change systemic injustice in its many forms and i think they do them by gathering together in protest the rules of democracy and not the billionaire class will start once again to dictate the behavior of our spineless politicians second at the societal level. We must embrace collectivism in some form of democratic socialism. This isn't a specially quixotic since. There are many practical truly non-radical models available from sweden today to canada in the nineteen seventies. Clearly we can and should do better and soon moving forward. We should institute the three day workweek and some form of universal basic income as we start shedding jobs from advances in artificial intelligence the automation of white collar professions and the shift towards post capitalism intern. We need to de-legitimize nonsensical measures like p the gross domestic product and validate meaningful measures like the famous one developed in bhutan the g and h or gross national happiness index. Why bother because we all know by now that wealth beyond a certain point doesn't improve happiness at all but human connections and a sense of purpose do so forgo importing the pure bred puppy from asia. And cook supper for your friends instead. Third at the economic level we must embrace de growth which means we should double down on sustainable energy and reduce our production of thoughtless often. Useless stuff this doesn't have to mean austerity and deprivation as anti leonard puts it in the brilliant documentary. The story of stuff in the united states ninety percent of all she says the stuff we mine harvest process transport is literally trashed within six months of being purchased. Consider that for a moment. Ninety nine percent is trashed. Let's start therefore by restricting the production of disposable products including cell phones and computers and minimize the production of plastic charge skis beyond that. We must tax billionaires out of existence and redistribute their incredible wealth in this respect. Let's aim high and reinstitute progressive taxation. As last seen in the immediate post war era people forget that nineteen forty five the us tax rate on earnings over two hundred thousand dollars. A year was ninety. Four percent or about three million dollars today. That's still a lot of money for any one individual but fine. Let's triple that ceiling since it would only be a fraction of the outrageous earnings of the twenty one hundred absurd and truly dangerous billionaires living today fourth psychological level. We must embrace what. I call the globalization of empathy. This shouldn't be insurmountable. Hard to achieve because the masses are already well underway at both the cognitive and emotional levels as american liberal. Jeremy rifkin argues human beings over history. Forced ever-greater 'collectivities identifying i with family tribe community and then with a nation state this expansion of human empathy naught. Human reason has been the primary driver of civilization throughout history. Consequently rifkin's probably right to forecast for humankind leap forward toward a planetary consciousness of each other and of the planet for. We obviously don't need to live in australia. Be australian for. We obviously don't need to live in australia. Be australian or have family and friends who are australian to weep over the loss of a billion animals in the great fires at the black summer of late. Twenty nineteen all. We need is a newspaper. Radio television screen or social media feed all we need is access to information sufficient enough to trigger our capacity for empathy with others hence the great motto of our time. If you're not worried you're not paying attention. Luckily or not. The democracy of suffering practically guarantees that the amazing privilege of not carrying of not paying attention and of pooh-poohing the science and facts. You don't like will not survive the concrete experiences of climate catastrophe that are big into our collective futures and finally fifth at the intellectual level. We must embrace prospective or aspirational philosophy. One that abandons the worst thoughts and actions of the recent past for the very best this means reaffirming the boldest aspirations of immanuel kant who foresaw cosmopolitanism and perpetual peace and karl marx who foresaw collective freedom and the dawning of meaningful existence for the masses by the same token this principle also means continuing to critique the philosophy that supported their dreams and made the miseration of the masses possible and climate catastrophe inevitable by invoking these five conditions. I'm not saying that everyone will achieve a kumbaya moment of blissful enlightenment greed individualism and indifference won't go away any more than altruism collectivism empathy disappeared under capitalism is not one or the other but the relative weight given to each characteristic by society at large but a society that favors empathy has consequences for our existing philosophic and economic systems systems that are supported by myths that naturalize an even deify reason egoism violence and competition. Rational self interested individualism. The philosophical bedrock of what pope francis calls the globalization of indifference will not help us survive in conditions. That no longer favoured life on earth but the globalization of empathy will collectivism in some form of socialism will and aspirational philosophy will. He's are highly practical matters. They're not just abstractions. If so then maybe. The biggest lesson of the anthropology condition is just this how we think and feel about the world and its inhabitants matters for we think and feel about the world creates and recreates the world. It's past time we hapless curator's of the human and natural worlds more carefully fashioned. A home were happiness and meaning still exist and to this end. Resist the forces of fascism unfreedom and evil. That keep us down. I'm afraid this also means we must let go of the innumerable reasons we've devised to stick with the past with tradition where the dead still hold the living. In their grasp. Clearly our responsibility today is to the unborn future and to the call of life itself this call of life is nothing less than the call of a revolutionary present. The call of the anthropology. So let's be wise together. Let's accept this call and think and feel our way into a better world for everyone everywhere right now. That is talk to frame philosophy professor at lake head university in thunder bay with the second lecture in his series climate change and the unborn future. You're listening to ideas on. Cbc radio one. In canada. Across north america on sirius. Xm in australia on abc radio national and around the world at cbc slash ideas. I now i am well. Many theaters are still empty. Claiming is back with a brand new season of binge worthy audio dramas featuring powerful theatrical productions from some of the world's most acclaimed creators for the stage experienced exhilaration of theater. Right from the comfort of your own home. Everything from provocative dramas to a reverend comedies. You can listen and subscribe to play me on. Cbc listen or wherever you get your podcasts. One ideas are always up for debate. So over the next two episodes will get a critique from both the right and the left of defraigne first. Stop is lee phillips. He's a journalist and co author of the book the people's republic of walmart and author of austerity ecology. He joins me from victoria. Hello early hi there. Good to from where you stand. What would an agenda like the one described tawes lectures mean for the average working person so he makes mention of de growth repeatedly throughout his his lectures and i would say that this is deeply unjust from the perspective of ordinary. Working people branko milinovic the former world bank economist And one of the world's leading experts in inequality has done a surf back of the envelope. Calculation of what this would mean if you halted all growth economic growth tomorrow around the world letting the developing world advance while the west retreats from development while also divvying up all wealth around the world that giving up of wealth around the world the figure would be five thousand five hundred dollars in income per person again so while for many people in the developing world. This would be a significant advance in their standard of living for the vast majority of working people across the western world this would be a radical decline in their standard of living. This is what i call aeko. Thatcherism thatcherism being a political project of constraining wages amongst working people. And i don't think factor ism feels any better if it comes with a lick of green paint. You know forty years. We've suffered through stagnating wages. In many cases declining living standards in the united states just before the pandemic the economic situation was so dire. Did we even began to see a decline in. Life expectancy for americans for the first time since the second world war. So basically what todd is doing here. He's telling everybody across the all the working people across the west you know how much suffering you've experienced in sir stagnating wages for the last forty years. Well you're going to have to suffer even more if we take a step back and we'll come back to the idea of de growth but his argument major part of todd difference. Argument is that economic growth directly amplifies climate change. And i think we've all kind of made that connection that more stuff means more emissions. How can we keep consuming as much as we do or more. Drastic reducing our greenhouse gas emissions will the first the first thing to say is that it's simply not true That growth is the driver of climate change or the growth is the driver of economic growth. Is the driver of biodiversity loss or nitrogen pollution or the raft of other very serious environmental challenges that we face if we turn clock back to the mid nineteen eighty s we were faced with another existential ecological challenge which was the the hole in the ozone layer. And the problem there was the use of chlorofluorocarbons or cfc's in a range of different industrial processes in and commodities in the popular imagination. This was fridges and hairspray aerosol cans of course. He was a lot more than that. But that's basically what people are served conceived as thanks to regulation intervening in and against the market against the corporations that were producing using cfc's and forcing them to switch to other chemicals that didn't Undermine the ozone layer we're now on track to almost complete healing of the ozone layer by about mid century. Now if we'd instead of technology switching and instead of you in growth as the problem then the the solution of growth this would be to prevent any new fridges or any new hairspray clearly. From from this example. It shows that it's actually the market. That's the problem that what we need is technology. Switching through regulation industrial policy built out clean infrastructure. These sorts of things that will solve the problem of climate change not telling working people. In the west of they have to eke out a very minimal living. Let me ask you this. You come from the perspective of the labor left side of the political spectrum as you said. We're we're workers should be the main beneficiaries of the economy but the labor movement's agendas is not always in line with solving climate change isn't labor's interests aligned with those who are pro capitalist to mind much or smelt as much steel and produce as much stuff as possible regardless of the impact on climate not at all. There are a raft of Clean technologies they Can be the deployed that make yousef. Almost all of the skill sets of the working people enlisting the mid largely in the middle of our own country that are in many places really suffering from the boom and bust cycles of of extraction if we were to for example significantly expand our incredible capacity for nuclear power in canada. We at one of the most innovative rector designed to the world can do that provides high-quality high-skilled high paying family supporting often trade union Jobs that would make use of a lot of the the skills that people learn within the oil sands similarily. If we use that same technology to be developing synthetic carbon so that we can deeply decarbonize heavy transport like aviation and shipping right now we can't electrify long distance shipping. Because well you know for other reasons aren't any charging stations in the middle of the pacific ocean. So we're going to have to come up with some genuinely clean fuels not by fuels but synthetic hydrocarbons Nuclear plays a crucial role and again the the pipes that we're going to be needing to To distribute those. Hydrocarbons looks exactly the same. In terms of skill set required for that as somebody who's a pipe fitter currently working For any sort pipeline across the country so rather than saying And in fact if you look at what. The trade unions are arguing. They do not Argue against The clean transition. What they say is that the green left needs to start paying attention to serve engineering. Know how the body of knowledge that is that is that sits within the the massive working people who who work within the energy systems they look. We know what needs to be done here. And you are calling for only wind and solar one hundred percent renewables refusing to To to embrace the idea of of nuclear power you refusing to embrace Synthetic hydrocarbons you refusing to embrace carbon capture and storage all of these things. We know that we need To to deeply decarbonize. It's the green left. That actually is a major blocked to deep decarbonization. Not the trade union movement. Trade union has a lot of good ideas at lake task. You big picture question about this disagreement on the left on how to proceed on environmental issues tall defrays arguments are are not just his. Obviously he shared by number of cultural figures with a lot of influence. People like miami klein and david. Suzuki michael moore. Why do you think the view that economic growth is the enemy is so compelling to so many people look at her. I i think that climbed to some wonderful work in many areas. Particularly with respect to defensive war writes She and her husband's work a number of years ago. In terms of defensive arch argentine workers when that country's economy collapse excellent. I mean i absolutely. She's a comrade however when has to understand that for much of the last forty years Great swathes of the left. When the certain serve anti-union laws introduced in the nineteen eighties across the west Do is real breaking of the trade unions and a lot of the intellectuals within the left retreated from being based within the working class based within the trade unions to the academy to journalism To ngos now i'm not. I'm guilty of this myself. A journalist but what that meant was the intellectuals within the cut themselves off the base of the working class and so when naomi klein says something like you know we should buy think on black black friday. After thanksgiving after american thanksgiving she claiming once buy nothing day where a day where we absolutely nothing you go to lots of working class households in they want finally able to find something days i mean. There's there's this this other middle class condescension there for many working class families. That might be the day in the year where the can finally afford to buy that. Bloody xbox did their kid wants and everybody else in the class has but they don't. I mean it's the money that is spent by these figures. These these figures in their their their their farmers markets buying ten dollars loaves of locally produced bread. Lot of people. Just don't have the luxury of doing that. And they sneer at the as talk put plastic charge geeze the give a just that little bit of joy that's why this merger there from the from the mass of the working class cut it from ordinary people. I am curious how you think these differences of opinion of course debates important but how these differences of opinion especially in the left. Do they not muddle the main message. Which is something needs to be done. And how does it affect public compulsion to act or to push action. I would prefer to convince these people on the green left. I mean the reality is that we do face a significant climate crisis in biodiversity crisis. I want them. I want to win them. Over to evidence based positions do evidence based physicians that actually benefit people incident sneering and and and wagging their finger at at the fact that they bought a barbie doll at walmart. I tried to make these arguments at try to win. People away from from these positions But i think fundamentally it's a matter of working people standing up for themselves and disciplining the left that is supposed to represent them and it has served run away from them. I think we're beginning to see some signs of that Certainly in the united states the tightening of the labor market has favored workers they're able to Demand higher wages and better working conditions. I think it was very a heartwarming. To see joe biden the other day. Say that this is a feature not a bug of full employment. We want workers to have more power. I'm actually quite frankly. Quite pleasantly surprised at how progressive president biden has been with respect to at least two at economics i was more of a bernie sanders supporter But i've been pleasantly surprised along those lines. The me think back to again the green left. What do you think ultimately is at the heart of their way of thinking like what does it say about how they might view humans and their relationship with nature. Well there is. There's a. there's a dark thread of of counter enlightenment thinking of anti humanism of The ewing humans as a scourge at the start of the pandemic. You'll remember there were all sorts museums. Being passed around saying we are the virus. Humans are the virus. The reality is that two point. Five billion years ago cyanobacteria We're the first organisms to photosynthesis. I swear remarkable development within the history of Of of life on earth but resulted this was basically burping out Oxygen which was toxic that point to almost all other life it resulted in the very first mass extinction event and we don't often counted in the big five because it was It was it was a microbial. mass extinction event. Remember when i was a university asking one of my professors why wisn counted as one of the mass extinction events. And she said well basically comes down to microscopic chauvinism but it was a mass extinction event. Now if we look at that and we say should that have happened. Should not have happened. Well if it didn't happen all the rest of life wouldn't have we wouldn't be here. We have to begin to thinking of what's going on at the moment. Not as something. That is bad for life on earth but rather that we are. It's a challenge. Humans there is a very sir limited window. Small window of of of conditions on earth. That are optimal for human flourishing. And we're fiddling with those those those parameters pretty significantly with respect to climate change and by diversity lost to bite. Less problem for us is the fact that we emerge involved in amongst particular assemblage particular suite of of organisms that deliver ecosystem services to us. If we screw that up then we will be undermined life on earth. Won't we that what we're doing now is effectively. No different from those cyanobacteria. Two point five billion years ago so the irony is here. Is that the reason that we want to be prevented. Climate change. biodiversity loss is not because we want to save the planet. The planet will be perfectly fine is because we want to save humans. We're endangered ourselves and our planet so the flight Fight against climate change is inherently a humanist struggle so the get it completely wrong both on a scientific basis an-and philosophical basis. There is an argument. That what you're asking for is is physically impossible. Even if it's the workers benefiting growth can't go on forever. The world only has so many resources. I guess the question is. How do you reconcile the desire for everybody to be. You know living better conditions and richer but the world having only so much stuff but the thing is the earth and the cosmos more. Broadly doesn't only have so much stuff. It's a it's a nice little line You can't have infinite growth in a finite planet. But what this excludes the possibility of technological change of switching of what's called de-coupling absolutely decoupling a so that is to say that we could continue to do something while producing particular good or service while reducing or even eliminating its environmental impact as i showed you with the example of the ozone layer. We've already done that. There continues to be growth increasing hairspray. But we no longer have the problem with the ozone layer and there are dozens and dozens of other examples along these along these lines so long as we are focused on the question of growth which will do nothing to solve the problem of climate change. We are distracting from the real problem. Which is markets and the the very real need for us to intervene in a regulatory fashion in fashion of muscular industrial policy public built out of clean infrastructure. So long as we're telling everybody that the working class needs to have less. We are not having a conversation by what really needs to be done. Defraigne uses Another word in both the title for the lectures and in elections themselves. He uses the word enterprising scene. And the you know for those who don't know of course it's the geological age defined by human impact on the planet. It's usually used in a negative sense to you. Is it possible to have a good answer machine. Yeah absolutely. I think this is probably one of the most exciting times to be alive as a human being the history of our species. This is the moment where we are. Emerging from from being a subject of the earth systems to potentially being the designer of the earth systems to further improve our quality of life or standard of living ultimately th we deeply decarbonising tear economy. We probably will still need to Reduce the atmosphere concentration of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases through such things as negative missions technologies and and reburied that. Lock away that that carbon back down in the fear and away from circling within the the biosphere in the atmosphere. And we'll be neat needing to get it down to well. What what's what's the optimum concentration atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide. We know that four hundred five hundred parts per million is absolutely not what we want. Do we want to reduce it down to two hundred parts per million one hundred fifty parts per million and at that point we need to assess what is the optimum concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere for life on earth there is no optimum within certain bounds but life will carry on whatever they the concentration is again up to a certain point. What we're talking about. What is the optimum for humans for human flourishing and. So that's why it's actually kind of exciting at the same time. If we get this right potentially we can make the earth. Even more optimal for human flourishing. It sounds incredibly hopeful but again it raises my suspicion about how up we are for the task. Can we be trusted with the collectively. Be trusted to do the right thing. When our long history showing that it's difficult for for for humans to cooperate the way we should. I think we well. We have lots of examples already of of the our ability to absolutely couple our goods and services from From environmental impacts other examples would be you know that are elimination of For all intents and purposes a lot of air and water pollution in the west lead pollution these sorts of things. So just more of the same i would say but we need to if there is an argument. That would have me worried. Is that those. Were each different Sector-by-sector problems when we're talking about climate change. We're talking about the entirety of economy. The entire do. The economy is built on the usa. Fossil fuels and there are a number of different processes the really essential to To to living like production of cement and steel did it where the the chemical reactions the process itself for what's causing the greenhouse effect and we need Steel and cement for public housing and for other purposes so it is basically my point being that. It's almost entirely the economy that we have to change. So i'm not minimizing the scale of the challenge at all. What i'm saying is we need to be basing our our suite of solutions to that challenge on an evidentiary basis. And we need to be making sure that it does not make the least amongst us the ones that have to pay for the the solutions that is to say the viability of achieving de growth. Realistically you have to convince a majority of people in canada and around the world to vote for less you. You're talking about a political party winning an election on the promise of. I promise you you'll have an income of five thousand five hundred dollars a year forever. No party will ever win on that platform and they don't need to because we have these other solutions. Thank you very muchly. Glad to be your lot. Phillips is a writer and journalist in victoria. He co wrote the book the people's republic of walmart with economist. Michael reservoir scheme he is also the of austerity ecology in tha defrays upcoming third and final lecture. He proposes some solutions to the problems. He's described the pandemic a golden opportunity to correct an unjust system. That hurts nearly everyone even the plutocrats who exist like idiots in an unhealthy unreality we must therefore press unapologetically for collectivists solutions and for some form of utopic realism because the pandemic has driven home. All of the truth with which we started we really do live in one interconnected world. That's a clinical statement. Not a sentimental bromide nature is the most essential part of it the very ground upon which we stand the economy which is created and not given can be changed. Human nature is almost the opposite of what we've been taught to believe. Life is more important than profit. Good leadership among politicians such as prime minister jacinda ardern of new zealand is not only possible. But is admired around the world and the masses are fully capable of rising to the challenge of radical world historical. Change just as the pandemic has knitted together a world of sufferers. It is also knitted together. A world of people unwilling to go back to the business of suffering as usual existing. Inequities have been laid bare fault. Lines have been exposed covid. Nineteen is therefore the name for this collective to the systems and structures that once seemed unable inviolable unchangeable and therefore hardwired ordained and natural. of course. It's true that the pandemic is a tragedy by the end of twenty twenty long before the variance of interest and variants of concern. Came along. there were already nearly two million deaths from covid nineteen worldwide but the pandemic has opened up a chasm between what was and what is still possible and at the last possible time for human life to thrive on the planet. It may very well therefore have saved us too because climate change promises to be so much worse than this one pandemic. let's be brave and aim for what was once thought impossible foolish naive or utopic. Let's target the systems and structures that are killing us and the planet after the lecture. We scrutinize the arguments with writer randy. A goethe capitalism is this kind of monstrous figure full of agency throughout his lectures. But who are the human persons who are acting in all of this. So who's making those changes who's redistributing wealth and on what rational that's challenge one. I think challenge two would be To think about capitalism not in the context of buji self-indulgence but rather in the in the context of the very very familiar figure which is the new comer to this country An immigrant or refugee. Who whether of necessity or choice or some combination elects to open a business themselves and by that same logic what they are. Motivated by is the capacity therefore to make prophets than cells to i think in most cases sustain and provide for their families. And if you are willing to kind of curtail. The kind of the buji people within their according to most interesting restaurants. They're not they're not providing the the revenue that those individual entrepreneurs from other parts of the world would benefit from. So those would be my two problems right the the question of agency on what rationale. And how do you then account for those people who have come to places like canada seeking exactly those sorts of opportunities and i don't. Don't you violins here. This isn't some sort of wonderful romantic immigrant vision of things. But rather i just see that there is a a certain amount of entrepreneurial energy interest and need. that wouldn't be satisfied in that account move. This episode was produced by greg. Kelly austin pomeroy handled the technical production for this episode. Our web producer is lisa. I usa senior producer. Nikola look schick greg. Kelly is the executive producer of ideas. And dime nulla. I add a for more. Cbc podcasts go to cbc dot ca slash podcasts.

walmart united states Thomas frank Thelonious monk obama samuel beckett lee phillips Alina mahmoud Todd defraigne todd frayne andy warhol tony blair cunanan prime minister boris johnson geijer bolsonaro
Fruit Trilogy, Everyone's Fine with Virginia Woolf, Fairview, Desperate Measures

Maxamoo Theater

59:45 min | 3 years ago

Fruit Trilogy, Everyone's Fine with Virginia Woolf, Fairview, Desperate Measures

"And. Welcome to the maximum theater performance podcasts this sense. These today Lynn are in an I four shows, we've seen over near CD over the past few weeks, joy, the show. Okay. So let's start with interruptions. Hi. I'm Liz fuck. Yeah. Great plays. I'm Orin squire, New York data review Jose, and I'm pretty much everywhere. So we went and saw four shows Brazelle to city hall. All in the sweltering summer city of New York, C Penney. Mary you're listening. You missed out on the one ten to travel and non fringe summer without fringe afflicted some without very strange. Okay. So let's get started. All right. So for step, we're going to talk about fruit trilogy is new. You've ends ler. That's going on at Abingdon theatre company is a three parter starring Clemens and Liz, Michael. Where it's three pieces pomegranate, which is about a two women who are sort of being bought and sold into some sort of female sex, something vague on the details. And then we have KADO which features a young woman who is escaping sort of sex trafficking. By being. Oh my God. What is the word? I'm looking for transported. Yeah. She's being ship of cargo on condos, yes. In a big holder, and then the last one is coconut, which is a woman in her bathroom, sort of reflecting on the ownership of her own body. So I guess this year. We've gotten two new evenly because we got this, and then we had where the body bodies world must title up. And I saw that one, too, and I laughed saw because even such an icon of feminist. The vagina monologues is like one of those classic shows, and I remember leaving. Body of the world and feeling like it kind of missed the Mark like it was a show that was. Exactly evens ler, but wouldn't really translate to anybody else. It's very for better for where she has very specific white feminism that really think resonated, with me when I was in college, I encountered that show vagina mileage for the first time. And I feel like now I'm seeing these newer plays by her, and they're sort of missing the Mark like she hasn't really caught up with the rest of the conversation and. So this, this piece to the opener is. It's evens ler doing waiting for Godot a little bit. Beckett's play. And yeah. And it just didn't work for me. I thought you know, if this wasn't eve, Unser, this would not have made it onto a stage. It just feels kind of hacky to women's heads. You've just either heads, and this sort of neon lighting, and they're sort of in a grocery store. Maybe a toy store. What are we doing? Why are we here where we go? Oh, look at that man. Just. Zippy's zippy. And it just didn't work for me and I thought, oh my God. If this is all three plays I'm going to, I don't think I can stand this. I did like your Clemens, who is the solo actor for of caught of the second piece, even though I felt like the second piece wasn't telling the anything about trafficking that I wasn't Ernie sort of aware of. It was a nice little twist of she wasn't on her way to but on her way from. And then the third piece with coconut. Features older woman, who's taking ownership of her body. And then it gets very meta theatrical, and it's about just letting her letting herself exist in the space. As an older woman as a bigger woman, as a black woman and owning that part of her, which includes getting topless, which I don't know about when you saw that in my overly literal gasps when she took her off, which saying, please don't. Guys. Oh, no, please. And I was like I don't think that's appropriate. But I also kind of agree with you. I didn't understand what the piece was doing, but to her credit, I will, I will say that is not a body type. I am used to seeing naked on stage at all. True. Which is pretty incredible. And to just the way that she owns it is amazing and beautiful. And I really enjoyed that part of it, even if I'm not sure I liked the piece. So. Yeah, I mean, I guess overall for me. I don't really understand. I feel like. It was missing some. Education. It was missing something a little deeper. I don't know. I'm really glad that you brought up the, the gasps because when I saw it the gasps came during KADO when I remember everyone of stern line, beating everyone went oh but there were okay with the nudity. Like that was the case when I went, but it was, you know, I agree with a lot of the things that you're saying. And in fact, one of the things that was very curious about west to see how I mean, the Jinan monologues, has become like legendary because like it pre much allows women from all backgrounds to appropriate in a way. But like in the body of the world is very eve, like you cannot see anyone else. Just pick up and drop dropping a college other actors do it is. So specifically eve engler's experience with cancer for better, you know, which is great, but it's one very narrow perspective on it sold. Yeah. I was really curious about how she was going to have to actors during this pieces. And there is a lot of events ller in these pieces. Like, I don't necessarily think that women scaping human trafficking are going to be talking about eccentric them that way. But also I, I kind of like met it and the middle. I think like I was like, oh, this is so eve. And there were moments that I found really beautiful like what you're saying about, like, the, the older women and just being so comfortable with her body in front of all those people just big. You know what this is me, you can like it or leave it. I've never seen the. Vagina monologues. I've seen excerpts of it. I missed that whole generation of theater. I did enjoy in the body of the world. But I was prepared for the Enzo experienced by a lot of friends. Don't go don't go see it is going to be like, the longest bar mitzvah speech, just full of earnestness like we should all recycle and vote in twenty twenty and make sure you donate to your blood Bank, like things where you're sitting there as a New York liberal, I know preach to the choir some more about how we should be good people, and so I really enjoyed in the body of the world, but my expectations were very low, and I knew it was going to be white feminism, and I'm fine with that. I do believe there's a place for that, obviously. And later. But this player brought along the friend, I Coulter, the king of Chicago theatre in town, working on a project so he came along with you to see this, and we're both kind of in a lot of pain throughout these three different plays. And I thought maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm a New Yorker, maybe heels, he's enjoying it. And then afterwards he said, like they should pay me to see that, and I was like, okay, so we're in agreement, I, I don't necessarily agree on that level. But by the time we got to the black woman stomping our feet and singing and getting the white on incidence. I just wanted to get up and stretch. So I was cool with getting up waving my arms around. While her, you know, nen as drooping down to her, her knees, I was like, as long as I get to stand and stretch out because this has been a long evening of self-indulgent, Ernest speeches, don't reveal anything new to me about sex trafficking object. Vacation of women or the Miskel magic of black women on stage and the white people's eyes, push this shabby playing 'cause I wonder you know what I think I was pretty much the only person Colorado, like everyone, my performance super widened super old and a lot of those people were having after the show, and there were talking to try like can you believe that and all that, so then it's in the right space in, but, but it's it's like I was like this New York. And I totally agree with you are in. I was like this show probably should be playing in regionals paces. I actually came out of it thinking, you know, some college kids are gonna get really great monologue cuts out of the three shows. Well, maybe the first one, but the second these pieces that are going to they're going to work for scene work. They're gonna work for college. I just they missed the Mark and my audience was pretty young audience was almost in. Entirely women which was interesting. Baden's was older, some young people, but it was maybe a slightly, more diverse and people are just thinking. Sure people just could not wait to leave. I was thinking about that, too, for one drink at hangar next door. And how we left that second Drake out there, the rush over where like how soon is this? We're still good. We're talking about. Like can we go back there and get our second drink? Especially during that KADO section where it was just the same note. I don't know whether the acting directing I know this actress is very talented. I really liked her just affect the texts that wasn't quite working with her not Lisa, which because the way that she talked took her from everywhere from twelve years old until they twenty five and I felt like the. Itchy a young person who's been thrust into this world too young is she older and embittered, and she kind of went between the two and I wasn't one hundred percent. Sure, what usually you was opposed Caspillo, your next found it, very gasping hysterical, her performance very much, like hiccup gasp, pickup, that at the beginning, and then it got more grounded. And maybe that's why the age went up like halfway through, and I wasn't sure what was going is she aging? How long has she been in this? This facility, this KADO truck or wherever she what, you know, the container shipping container that she's in. I don't know. I just. No. Middle class when people start screaming at me. I sort of lean back in my chair. I cry more when you get me to scream or get beat cry. I don't cry when you're crying and wailing and screaming at me. I tend to as a middle class Americans sort of shut down emotionally when I see that, like when is this going to be over, like an animal that's being like yelled is this over yet? So it's just personal opinion. Some people do like the operatic, emotions of people throwing shit. I tend to like freeze up like an Edward Albee character. Yeah. I don't like when everyone starts to scream, I can't deal volume as an indication indication of emotion, but I feel like this. Each of the pieces was go was hitting their marks. We have to do this, and this, and this is how we're going to talk about this subject and do something new. I wanna see something interesting and different it just didn't quite a we'll give props. At least a my opinion, the first one. I checked out of, and then started to win back at the end the one with the sex toys. I was like I was checked out. And then I was like, oh, this is going to be over, and then once I realized it wasn't going to be over soon. I kind of let my mind go, and I found some pleasure in just going on the journey of slightly. Esoteric non-linear monologues of two voices battering against each other in darkness. But it took me a while I had to go from, like pain to misery to, like, what are the stages of grief scribe tonight? You just did it becomes, like eventually journey, at least with that play. And then I was like accepting it at the end like oh, and I saw the beauty in the world. And I felt like I was the end of Winston, whatever winced at the end of nineteen eighty four like crying, big brother. Big brother, so beautiful. But I had to go through the whole torture. I, I liked Advocaat enough and the last piece if I didn't like the plot of the both actors which was like totally given it their all. And so that's cool. I think also this brash should add that their shows eighty minutes. So, yeah. Longer show. But it does feel like you're in it for for a while. It's three very realized pieces. I've Mark, because I saw that in London. She presented them. Like I think coconut is making like premiere here and the fruit trilogy. But I think in London, she did each piece individually like pomegranate, and avocado. So I wonder how received in London, and I wonder how just sitting there for half an hour with each of these pieces might affect. And because like the experience of that whole troje is very yeah. It's quite something speaking of short plays not related to this at all. African mean girls. Play is forty minutes long I one in it's brilliant, and you kind of want more, I wonder what would have happened if she would have written like a completely different play a second part, whether it would have you talk about like rhythm, and pacing. But you watch that forty five minute playing like I want more. But wait a minute. Maybe that's a bad thing. Maybe I shouldn't get more. Maybe this is good at forty minutes, 'cause then I get sick of these characters because it's so rich. Yeah. I think that you put pieces like that, like, in the trilogy together, you're saying, look at these as, as a unit together and looking at these unit together. I see they're trying to do, but I don't think it's novel out all. And maybe if I saw them separately. Would draw that out a little bit more. Maybe I would appreciate the first one more. If it was separate from the other two, I don't know if that's true possibly not. But if it wasn't in stark contrast to the other two, I don't know, rather see you're talking about her private parts or cancer than try to go outside and do like reporting and turn it into a Samuel Beckett show if you're going to reporting, I think, do in the body the world whereas I'm rich white woman, and I'm in west Africa like Anthony bourdain would just like out without the cuisine, more like anti board game for people to be like miserable on their trips and see terrible things happening in the trough cities. But I was own it or vagina monologues. And like if you're rich white woman, own it being fabulous rich white woman. Talk about this a little bit after we saw. We saw something that you're talking about the China monologues. And every show, we talk about just always gotta go back. But that I don't even think it resonates as well. Now did when years you'll because these when I saw it at my college and, you know that they have since out some pieces, and rewritten its sort of ends with this, like the best thing woman can do is give birth which is a little nowadays. And I remember my college, there was a big uproar from you'll be like, what if we're not having children or trans women who can't have children or other people who can't have like why is the having children? The end all be all of having a China and that was difficult. And there were certainly were no transposes in China model at the time, I believe they have since changed that. Yeah. I think it's just. I just want to evolve a little bit. I think that's all I'm asking playing. I guess doubles advocate a lot of sham shepherd plays of not age, well, too, but because he's doomed, we are willing to restage and, and deal with the massage Andy and weirdness of a lot of his plays, which might have been good thirty forty years ago. But now you watch like your rights. So I wonder if. Yeah. Buried child, which is odd Juilliard, and I was like what's going on? And maybe it's just a lot of plays when they're hot in there about a specific topic or very related to that person's character. It's hard when that person's rockstar character for that brief window of time looking at it thirty years later being like what would people smoking back, then what was the deal? I don't I don't understand. And so I have to immi- mind, not let the tyranny of the present oppressed the past. I can't let my particular like this is boozy to be like, well back then maybe people were feeling it because, you know, I have to do Sam Sheppard stuff when I was in school. And that was considered important work, even though it was dated slightly. So that's food for thought. Food for thought. Daughter. But I do agree, maybe some of the stuff doesn't age. Well, I'm not sure because I've never seen John excerpt. But anyway. So speaking about wasted time. Being important works. I think that's a great segue to go into our next show, but she's which is elevated repair services. Everyone's fine with re wolf, which is a parody Perry or set. It's a parody, right? Yeah. Which is a parody of Edward all these who's afraid of J A wealth. And we can have George Martha Nick Honey, just like being asshole, switch other and drinking. But in the script by Kate Salesa what we see is that they bring to the surface, all the themes specially like the gay themes that were not necessarily office in Albee's play, which is one of those other things that we see every couple of years Broadway, right? I happen to love who's afraid of. I don't think that it's H particularly well, and one of the things that I really loved about this production was that they went and cast African American women's Honey, which is like the state doesn't probably can't Nick has to be a white guy because of all the references to area nation and all that stuff. But I believe honeys okay to be cast as a person of color, but there was a big uproar when they cast. People of color as Nick and Honey recently in a major production, remember, which one the all state all these state lost their minds. So I wonder what the state things about about about this, and it was very funny. Like I happen to think that who's affordable. It's really really, really funny, maybe not necessarily for the right reasons, sometimes so I appreciate it. You know, this company just like poking fun at a classic that all the critics like pretty much checkoff to all the time. Didn't critics back then criticize Edward Albee, because they said it sounded like two gay men were arguing with each other, at least in New York Times. I, I'm I'm trying to recall my theory history class. Vaguely. I've heard that. But I couldn't pinpoint a source for you. Quickly overwhelmed, by course now considered a classic. But I, I remember at least near daily news, or New York Times critic was like digits to gay men who are talking to each other zinn was a whole backlash saying, what are you saying gay people can't right? Straight characters or Drake. Hairdos don't act like bitches, because they do it isn't just gay men after three martinis. America couples can be some of the cruelest people in the world to each other, and I think it would be though. He wasn't in a married relationship with the woman tapped into that unhappiness of his adopted family and the unhappiness of adoptive mother, and growing up around rich spoiled people in how sensitive and brittle, and fragile and full of rage. They are, and you kind of wonder like you don't really have a reason to be on the surface when it comes to material goods. There's something lacking in your life, and a promise that seems like it was not fulfilled. So that's my not defensive who's afraid of trying to understand the context of what people were thinking when they might have seen it like fifty years ago, even the movie came out like people still refer Cuba. Elizabeth Taylor's Oscar winning performance month greatest drag performances of all time. I love the movie though, because it is a before. It is a pretty great role. Yeah. I, I like the beginning of the show a lot as someone who did study, a lot of theater history you the way it came out not just that wolf. But Tennessee Williams and Arthur Miller in there. The spoiler at the, the vampire that shows that Carmella, which is based on. Classic cannon canonize Dracula, pre Dracula story, rather, vampire story about this woman who refuses her power to seduce other female vampires. Yeah. It's actually it's very cool. And someone made it into a YouTube series. Recently modernized. It's actually fun. Look it up. Hila. In. So the biggest thing that I got out of it is the way that these cannon writers, white male writers. Couldn't really, right. Women with nuance. Harpies and she bitches and the sort of draggy performances of Stella and blanche. And you get a lot of both of those in there and just men. Trying and failing to capture a female experience. And the show comes at you so fast and the beginning, just maybe, you know, and I liked that. I really like the performance. Anti McNamara who plays Martha doing sort of, we'll be saying in a in a gas fire sort of performance. Very, very sketchy sitcom e sort of opening. Now, I I've not seen other elevator repair service shows I understood them all to be eighteen hours long and this is a breezy our in fifteen minutes. And I almost felt like the pact three hours of show into an hour and fifteen. And so a lot of. Issues were raised, and maybe not spun out or resolved, and resolved, but that they didn't. They didn't spin out a lot of these ideas fully. You've just got a lot of theory thrown at you and a little bit of explanation. But no solution. I don't know the only elevator repair service show. I saw had April Mathis in it a few years ago, and it was yes, she plays co let yes, fondly colon at New York theatre workshop, I believe, and I loved it, it was way too long, but in its extreme lane, it allows you to get lost in the work, and then you have to surrender to it because you're not going to be able to follow beat by beat Beaumont by moment, because it is like a hodgepodge and a collage of different styles. So they, you lose a story, then gain the story, then you lose the story again. It is similar to watching a David Lynch movie where you're not expected to follow beat by beat lock law and order episode. You know they're going to be poor points. Mahal and drive. You're like what why is the monster behind a dumpster? What was that, about have to be like, okay later later. I'll we'll get back to that later and you trust in the storytelling, but you need a large enough campus to do that. In felt like this should have been Waesche order, like sixty minutes or way longer so that you could have gotten lost in the world that they were creating if bell like it was not only cut, but they had sections with the actors were either improvising actual lines. And I saw or they were changing their intentions, like they hadn't figured out what their role wasn't hammered it down, especially say Anna McNamara. She was trying out stick, but she wasn't doing it in my opinion with competence, and she sort of gained confidence as she went along. The guy had a stick down, which was like hysterical screaming, and that high pitch voice, which is, which always works. I guess then night, the night when I like is hysterical scrape. They. They he would reach, but it didn't feel like they were listening to it felt like they were trying out stick during certain parts like maybe I'll try funny voice, and they do like a baby voice than they do a voice, and I was like, really this is like how elementary school kids would act in a play, they'd be like, I'm gonna try to be cute here, and I'll try my baby boys out. And now I'm going to stop around and it's like, are you listening to the lines? Are you just trying out different tones to see how it feels to the audience? So it might have gotten settled down as it went along, because we saw early in previous. We talked about that, after the show a little bit, and the more I thought about the more isolated added to the sort of weird sitcom e vibe of the first two thirds of the show, we get a big tonal shift in that last third. And I felt like that lasts. Third could have been longer. I would have liked to see us I would like to have seen more. Touches of that earlier in the piece I would've integrated a little bit more and a little bit longer where you get the sort of zoom out of Carmella, who's are PHD candidate in. This is her thesis project. And she sort of comes in and explains all of her ideas, and I would have liked to have seen maybe a little more interaction between those two barring the. George. What you call the Judy Garland moment, or has the big microphone, and he's in the Kaftan and his didn't which was delightful, not to steal from other shows as about to steal from other shows, but I would have been interested even beginning with the PHD student, Allah, octa Rune, so framing the story of, like, here's what I'm doing. This is an experiment or therapy, or both or neither I don't have a therapist, and then you go into the show. So we know like, all right? We're in this person's head. We're in this PHD students head just like an actor on. We're in this black playwrights head because of Octo just begin with the slaves you'd be like what is going on? This is confusing and racist and weird. But it's framed by saying, oh, this is what we're gonna do. This is a form of therapy as a black person for a female do student PHD student. This could be a form of therapy. Examining hysterical. Women in Tennessee Williams and Edward Albee. And there was an excellent point than a peach, peach of what make when he said like she said. Ed in Edward Albee and Tennessee Williams stories, the failing of men are these huge tragedies about society and the failing of women are like these hysterical. Little incidences of forty and trauma, your home. Yes, the were the cake burnt in the oven or like the roast or these I burn dinner angels on America. These set of these minor things, or very white woman. Right. Right. Rich white one failures women's man's failures the world's fan. Yes. You phrased that a lot better than me. I'm gonna explain over you joking. Thank you meant to say. I wonder how much in the show. I was also very surprised, so short as grateful, but as a prize. But I wonder how much of that had to be had to do with much the company thought that people knew the play beforehand, because I went to Mattie Nate and it was like a nine year old kid in front of me. And I was like. What? So I wonder if that was ninety year old kid nine oh nine. Yeah. Timelessly. Everyone's fine. The positive version of everyone's fine. So obviously did not read the irony. I remember once our hand to God, it was on Ash Wednesday, and people were walking out because head to God, it was gonna be like, so people sometimes to read this an opposite. Yeah. That's true. So I will be going to say. Okay. Let's turn next show that are in, I saw Fairview with Liz, and half of New York theater felt like if you just running into people everyone who's anybody was at the that we went to Cole was there. Mike walkup from seventy three. Daniel ISAACs who is in the gentleman caller, and his on billions, and like five or six of the people who are recognize Lynette Freeman anywhere gets the play. I'm just going to name people all these names that you just out excuse me. Namedrop bor. So we all were at the spot. So haram to see you by Jackie's, Sevilla's Drewery. Sanger name. Right. Let's do it directed by Sarah Benson who is also the artistic director at so Harrap. And when you enter the space is very peach mauve sort of toned living room. Every MCC play. Yes. Or a lot of half of MTC's plays where you're watching a nice living room, the furniture as very middle-class nice to the point of being like cheesy. And we know we're in a SoHo rep space, we go. What's the trick will this is not really complain about. So is this something we could do a spoiler alert or spoiler? Because it's pretty hard to talk about this play. Pause. We should just warn people when this aren't coming. So the play is set in three different parts. We can talk about the first part in the second part, I think, fairly easily the first part is like a standard black family drama, and they're plenty of like dancing, and remembering songs from the seventies, and the earth wind and fire and things that make you feel good, and joked about mama and family intrigue, and who's doing what to who and the daughters lesbian. Cooking lots of cook and don't spoil this. And did you remember to get? It's things that I can almost do like in my sleep, and I think a lot of writer to do in our sleep, and that is on purpose. And I kind of knew that I was like this isn't Justice play like this isn't a mediocre family matters. There's something else going on here. So then when the mother passes out the play rewind itself. Spoiler alert begins you do now. The play rewind self it begins again. But this time we hear this podcast of white people talking over the play. And they're talking about race and how much they wanna be black or which race. They could be if you could choose your race. What race would you choose? Yeah. And then the people on stage doing the action, but they're muted and we're listening to this very long drought conversation about race it goes on for like thirty forty minutes, but like an hour and then it continues on into the play. And at the very end the white characters in the podcast, who you here. But don't see sort of join the family at the end in this giant orgy of food, and violence and catharsis an expiation of things in black culture and tropes and black dramas and family dramas, and then a calls to question, who are these dramas four on? Age who's watching them? And why can't we do something new as artists of color? So I thought what Jackie was saying was was great. And was a great experiment. It triggered a lot of memories in my mind feeling slightly him din, and trapped as an artist of color, did it succeed. Well that's very subjective. Not entirely in my opinion. I'm sure it's going to get a rave in New York Times, but it didn't exceed excel entirely because the first part was. So Pat, that I know what she was trying to do. Trying to make it Pat on purpose. But the first part was, so Pat and one and kind of goes along at a normal clip that, I expected the second part begins, and it's the same thing over again, which I was fine with never seen again. Except now it has these white people talking over which in fact made it worse. And then it goes on for like thirty forty minutes, it goes on for on time, and I was checked out. And then the twist is the white people arrive onstage is black characters interact with the black characters, and this whole big breakdown about American culture and how we ourselves happens. And that's when I check back in. And then she asked everyone come up on stage at the end and examined, the white people on stage and the black actors all the white people to leave their seats and leave all their stuff and come on stage. So I might it and I'm very happy that I saw it. I think is definitely worth. Being. Is it an enjoyable play? I'll leave that up to other people in Jose enlisted aside. Because it's something I don't think I don't think it's a question. I can answer like is an enjoyable. It was enjoyable in places for me in other places it was very much like something that would drive people away from theater who are newcomers, if they saw this, they'd be like never going to the play again. White people because I don't want to be yell that I feel threatened. Part of that. I did spoil the play for myself, but I was trying to find the fricken run time for the show, and I found a comment on Broadway. World's message or something or someone was talking about how they went and saw it and, and then we got yelled at and we got yelled at by the actors to leave our seats and we had to leave the theater because it's show wasn't for us anymore. And so I went in prepped to be yelled at I was like, I'm gonna screamed at I don't know. I was like, okay. And I will say to white listeners, we didn't get screamed at they sort of keep musing about it, like, what would it take for me to get people out of their seats, and what would that be like, and how would that feel and I did not feel a costed someone had a very visceral reaction to it. Apparently. But he did. I did going on stage with a bunch of white people. I'd say it was probably half the audience, when we saw it, there were people who did not leave their seats that was an interesting choice on your standing there, looking at these people, you're like, what is your judging, like, four white people being, I was like, hey, you, and we were standing on the set, which is also after you spent so much time being watching the show. It feels like an invasion, I felt like I was taking in someone's space. I think is kind of the point that I felt like I didn't belong up there, and I shouldn't be taking over the space from these actors. And then. The actress I can't remember who played the daughter, Maya bulleting. Yes. So she zoo, she's standing at the front of the stage facing the audience now with her back to most of the white people, and she made some joke, and I don't remember what she crack some joke, and all of a sudden everyone around. And I felt really uncomfortable. This is not our show anymore. Why are we? I feel like I'm not I don't want to be engaged in this more. This is not for me. Which I think is all the point. It's about sort of giving. You can talk the talk of giving people space. But then you have to actually give them the space. To, to develop new work and stuff. And I guess what I got out of it as someone who's trying who wants to do a period of color, who wants to tell different stories and still stuck in the same, tropes, that we expect of black playwrights black plays. But it's so Harrap. So the actual context you're seeing the show in kind of tips you off in might do a disservice to the show. 'cause you're, you're waiting for the irony. If this is like screamed at by roundabout or lie. MTC you right. They're like, oh, people on stage how comforting see is February yet. Okay. I'm seeing that show. But like, because it's so ho- wrap your. Where's the twist here? I know this is your sort of gonna hit me with a jabs we're debating outside whether that gave away the game, so soon because you're like, I know this isn't just a play about black people. I know that you thought it was going to be like a slap me slap in good time. Even thought like what's wrong with SoHo round like they had a stroke. I guess you could also go into up show knowing there's going to be a twist, but not knowing necessarily, what that's going to be, is it going to be ten out of twelve situation where it's just kind of crazy technically or like a marie-antoinette something, I don't know. Don't know again, I sort of knew going in that it was going to be I was going to be screaming that which was not true. Again, I would just went emphasize, I wasn't screamed at for Djilas real people. On the Broadway. World message board, of course the like that a conservative blogger who cues Maxine border shoving him and you look at the tape, she's she goes by him on the way to approach excuse me, young man. I'm trying to pizzas guy. I don't have time for you. And he was like this woman shoved me. And it's like no, you're Jill is so extreme that. Oh, black woman, trying to simply move to a space is an attack on your person hood, like a black actor addressing the audience is screaming at you because it is breaking the fourth wall, and making you uncomfortable about your status. But should we made me think about it? I mean obviously, if you're listening to this right now, you know, you're listening to a podcast and it made me think a lot about, you know how we have become so used to listening without really listening because like join the podcast segment I also like my mind wondering, and then there was a moment where brought me back to the show when I don't remember what the people in the podcast set and I went whoa. So I've wondered about that also, you know, all the MPR liberals and like all, like, oh, we Hillary Obama, people who are just, you know, like liberal and progressive and theory, and what it takes to bring these people to actually doing something in practice, and I appreciate it that, about their show because I was like, you know. You know, you can listen to all the MPR you want to be all day long. But if you're not voting if you're not doing anything, really, if you're not being kind, and helping people if you're not giving people of color. Room's space in real life. Then you're just full of crap pre much. Yeah. I felt like a lot of that podcast to overlay was a white liberals trying to outdo each other to be the most liberal end just stepping on their toes. And the process it was just just go. Oh, no. You don't put on a I feel like someone at one put on like an Asian accent. Oh, god. It was bad. So overall, I enjoyed it, and I think it caused a lot of questions for us. It doesn't necessarily have to fall into the category of feel good or feel bad. It follow to the category of Hough that's something or that made me think or maybe next time, I'll be aware of blank, and maybe that was Jackie's point. And in that I say kudos, so horrific for being able to take a risk and the challenge for something that wasn't quite necessarily developed in smoothed out, and all the rough edges. But putting it out there for discussion. A last show this week, buzz musical adaptation of measure for measure called desperate measures running at new world stages. It has the book and they're expi- pure Kellogg and music by David Freedman. And you know, it's a musical adaptation, never measure, and the, the wild west, and so everyone's a cowboy basically, and there's this guy who's in prison because killed a dude and his sister whose a nun and his girlfriend, whose saloon dancer slash sex worker, they're trying to help him and I don't know about you guys, but obviously, like measure for measures. As a lot of problems. And I don't know how I felt about like let's go be happy at a musical. Two women are trying to get this asshole out of prison. That's what really got me about this play. Is that in the opener they acknowledged this issue? One of Shakespeare's problem plays we don't do it enough a lot because it's a problem, we know it's a problem, but don't worry. We cut it. We cut a whole plot. So basically, what the, the ignore it was a problem, and they kept the problem and everything else measure for measure, like should really zero in on the rape stuff and just like why these poor women have nothing to do, but they throw them a bone and trying do a little female friendship in there. But honestly, it's all about these women helping out these men. And it's just. Oh, yeah. Stealing chairs where regional theatres go to shop. There Costco's, you go to pick up a nice like to pack of be level. C-grade grade plays that you can spread out over a season or two in Oklahoma or. Always feels to me like I'm going to the park, you kinda hit your little spots. It's all weirdly lid, you go I'll and I'll and I think it's partially because there's so many different shows going on at the same time to get slotted into track essentially, and then, even the theater, and it's super rape to feels a little like you're going to Mexico -perience I don't know about you guys. And then this show felt like a theme park show. I don't mean that in a bad way it just felt like it probably could have been like a ninety minute. You fit this in and then you go to the hotdog stand afterward, it was pleasant. Guess given them ideas. Universal desperate measure, although it have to be like on pleasure island Disney this because. Yeah. I was completely in my mind having a grand old Opry flashback playing over this over Abbott. Oh, this would have been so great with Dali Parton. I was like this would have been a great thing, and the grand old Opry, because it's like double entendre Komaraj Selley Anne, it's so heavy she could've played Donna could've played the prostitutes, people would have been rooting for a head all cast in my mind like who would have played the semi the bitter none. Who loses grip learns explore this grand old Opry style. Not that, that's bad stick, Harper valley PTA square, in the middle of show and dance and great. I felt so guilty ball, the show, and I was not enjoying it because I was so this trip by everything, as like this is a show about white straight men for the most part straight. I guess trying to convince women that sex with straight white men, as their lives should be about. And then people were laughing and slapping, their knees and everything. And they've showed got really really wonderful reviews and it's like people like zoned out of the whole. This is show about fucking how terrible men are knowledge in parts, where I was like, Liz loosen up. But what everyone's laughing at all of the cracks about, you know, I'm going to have sex with her whether she wants it or not from the governor, and all that it was very creepy. And the way he's just gonna run gonna take whatever he wants how he's going to get it. And that's how it's going to be. And that I just I didn't find that as a. I don't find it as funny villan co on Liz lucid. Another drink gret. Go of the Susan Sante Kushtia. You're sitting on the bell hooks bookmark in your mind. Me joy, Liz, my God, what burning brawl or not wanting to talk about rape jokes for PG thirteen thing. Many teenagers will see filling courage by. Definitely see a school, bringing their kids to this show, has its cold and digestible version of a problem play. But it's a problem. It's the reason it's a problem. Laura Molina's delightful. I didn't perk up when we started getting the numbers between her and Connor Ryan who plays the, the mail that everyone trying to get out of prison because the two of them are, so cheesy, and then you bring the two of them together, and they're just over the top, they're constantly, mugging and just chewing scenery together. And I enjoyed that together because I want to that acting in everyone's fine with Virginia Woolf that experts sitcom cheesy acting in a lot of Virginia Woolf that would have elevated in my opinion, that's a skill being cheesy onstage and committing to it. So then I started laughing despite myself like the bad groaning lines. They had to say and they, they sold it. Yeah. Lordly lip rolling the entire play. And it's delightful, which also like so funny that she that she also matches like even which is doing this. Outlandish. Just like gestures and like all this like facial expressions. Sheaves still manages to be very moving at times. I was like pissed all the massage and stuff. But when she says this isn't as polar Shakespeare, whatever when she. Cycle yet. She's like, when she wants to get married to this asshole governor who wants to rape all the women, and she's like his might be the best thing that happened to me, and she's saying it, you know, like to make laugh, but she also means that. And that was really funny. But also so fucking heartbreaking, and I loved her, like she was my favorite thing. She was the highlight of the show also that cactus Lenzi, which I definitely want for summer. If I can get set up with that costume designer, please. I would like one, the irony is at the west was won or settled mostly by women. They're the ones who have the power without women, the west would have just been a bunch of work camps. It was the brothels, which cities organize themselves around that allow men to go into an area with this money and spin then created bars that created hotels and saloons and the most powerful business, people of that era were women who starting brothels. Leverage that into a hotel, then levers out into a saloon, then would help elect public officials and then sort of controlled a lot of the towns in the west that's who really was taming the west not like Cowboys and people who had six Judas. It was people have the capital and women had the thing that guys wanted and wanted to spend money beyond say, you know, who runs the world girls in very tight tight dresses and high heels. So that's a whole other aside because obviously going for historical Acura take of how the west was settled, but it is kind of funny that you're watching, like a western and it doesn't pass Bechtel tests at all these women running around. But, like, in the west women were with a scarcity, so they actually had the leverage they were way too many guys and to few women who wanted to actually go out west so that's why they had a lot of the power, but in on stage just the opposite, all the women are running after the guys like their precious metal. I'm like, no, there's five other Cowboys who are as debit the handsome as Connor. The beginning when we meet Sister, Mary, Jo the sister, who lives in the, the nunnery, I was kinda hoping that she this modernisation would have given her a little more agency, but they literally, they show her with a gun, and she can't, she's trying to get rid of a crow and she can't, and she can't, and then great the big strong man shoots that for her an were off and I just want. Rush. You're the confused me about this show though, that I was sitting there like this show, seems gear for, like Brett states like like four like all the people who voted for the current precedent to be like Harare. Let's subjugate women, but it's also so like anti religion and like there's like the priest whose like obsessed with, like me, chip, basically, and who doesn't believe in God anymore. And then the shows also saying that the non should not be anonymous goddess important as getting dick from like a cowboy. So I'm like, what audience argument? So who is this show for, like, where's this show? Supposed to run at the thoughtless middle that lives are contradictions doesn't want to actually explode are all those weird contradictions in the piece, actually religion act Specht that you bring it up to me wasn't religion is bad. It was like God is what's in your heart isn't a terrible thing. I mean, that's that you don't have to be an institution to see the beauty and see you can marry a nice man, and settle down and have your religion that way, I saw that coming from a mile away, like they're not gonna end with the pre suits becomes atheist. He's going to settle on some Disney fide Christianity of it's what's inside people go. Oh, okay. And then he goes, down real smooth people can get even very religious people can get behind that a religious people could be like, okay, whatever. Makes you feel better. Roll your eyes like if that makes sleep at night, shorts in your heart, you know, that could be indigestion. It could be anything, we'll say it's guiding your heart from the hot dogs from the hot dog Chow down intermission at new world state, so what shows place. Oh, solis. Anyway. A movie. That's why it has like that stadium yield to multiplex sticks to that the walls nothing feels like it's a theater, but that's movie complex. Okay. Did you ever see a movie there? No, no. But I just have to know that. That's what it used to be. And when he was, of course. We also Nate Moore movie theaters. But anyway, what shows next counters? Let's see what we're seeing log cabin today. The podcast comes out. I just dance nation saw that to which I really enjoy eight I don't know if you did. But I did. For a different podcast and also review this -ation of sorts go. Yeah, I should go back and listen. I skipped it because I knew I was going to go see it a great. Okay. Did listen to you in deep. Talk about it on the American theatre. Token theater friends podcast. I swear, I did not ask her to pluck my pocket. I just I try and plug. Everybody's everything gross. Everything that's tickets for much coming out. It's pretty quiet right now bowl. They're all those Shakespeare's in the parks, probably make it out to the Shakespeare in the park. Get a discount ticket for just paradise blow. And I guess a hundred twenty feet is closing today. So I'm going to miss that. But I've seen that before twice is meant come with. I'm not gonna see it again. Homework theater. I don't need to go see it again. I do feel like if a cheap ticket comes up for skin-tight I will see it because Josh brought that play in the class. And we read it and I'm interested in seeing the changes in the advertisement for the play doesn't represent the play at all. So I find that funny, not getting like Markle, maybe radically rewrote it. But at least when I read it, she's a side character, and it's about, like a daughter and a father, who has a sugar who's a sugar daddy to this rich hot boy, toy. And so in the role they must have beefed it up. They must have rewritten coz she in the initial play didn't have much to do. But if skin-tight if, if someone has a discount ticket, just because I'm principle. I don't wanna pay retail for. Let me know. And, you know signature, whatever they have going on. What's coming up next signature, be more killed? Yeah. What's that musical? Okay kid on. Well, I'm not a kid. I'm more but it's. New York debut, which is exciting. It's based on a book. It's the music's fantastic than I will probably be saying that just by the Osmo sus of being in cigarettes eaters lounge. I've seen so many shows just because the lounge waiting for you. We know sure there's. I lounge. It's the best part of New York City right now. The world. Trade Center had allowed like that memorial so far away. Yeah. True. Also bring a conformant to teenage stick at the public theater. Oh, yeah. That's my right? Haven't gotten tickets. That is another play that. Pass over. I could see it but I've already seen it before ending the case of teenagers dick. I've seen it twice. So it's like I could see again. I did enjoy it. But there are other things I might wanna see, but teenager decades, great. I'm Passover someone asked me, like do you wanna see those, I've seen it before when it was at cherry lane, two years ago and it was a Netflix? And it was like, do I want to see it again? Maybe. On netflix. Yes. Spike Lee filmed it as a movie on that clicks, just have to check it out there, Dan. I just ruin a potential holidays member on that flex. But you should still see it live better. If I can just watch it with no pants on as far as I'm concerned. That's why the summer your pants. Yeah. -solutely and I do want to add that since talking about Virginia. Well, the quad cinema has a great Elizabeth Taylor. Retrospective going on right now. And they're showing Virginia Woolf on the many. So get your tickets and think you guys and we'll see all. Thank you so much for joining us for today's episode of maximum. The performance podcasts questions. Come in opinions that are different from our own good love to hear from you can find some Twitter at maximum. This is at mid slits Richards Aren at our inspire, and I sessile these my in if you enjoy the show, please leave a rating and review an I choose or wherever you listen to podcasts. We have merch can coffee, mugs tote bags and stickers with your favorite maximum assumes, you can get to the store, BMX dot com. All proceeds go to helping the podcast and persona polity. Thank you. The media.

Edward Albee New York City Liz George Martha Nick Honey New York Times rape Cowboys Virginia Woolf Samuel Beckett Pat Elizabeth Taylor Jackie Tennessee Williams China America Drake Jose Mary Carmella
Getting Over Your Fear of Public Speaking, Once and For All  Ep. 002

Bellwether Hub Podcast

48:22 min | 2 years ago

Getting Over Your Fear of Public Speaking, Once and For All Ep. 002

"I'm Jim Frawley. And this is bellwether. Hello, everybody. Welcome to bellwether very excited about this topic. This is always been a very large passion of mine. The topic of public. Speaking is one that strikes fear into just about anybody that you speak to and it takes a lot of work in a lot of effort. It seems for people to overcome this massive fear, public speaking. We hear the joke. People are more afraid to speak in public than they are to die. So they would rather be in the casket than giving the eulogy funeral. Which is which is unusual. You know, considering how we are social individuals. We really enjoy the the social aspect of being with other people putting ourselves on display that Molnar ability of of being in front of people is is a big challenge. But when you wanna think about your personality and letting your personality shine through when we when we talk about public speaking, I feel like one of the big challenges is not necessarily what to say. But how to say it, and what we are concerned with is really, you know, is our personality going to resonate well with other people. So when we think about personality personality or two different things personality is your your set of values your motivations and everything that you are. But it's also what other people say, and so the running theory or one that I've always heard is the fear of public. Speaking is actually a fear of social rejection and your brain treats social rejection in the same way that treats physical paint. So you hear someone who went through a break up and their brain is basically telling them that that they broke their. So when we think of social rejection, we think of social pain sending in front of a room full of potential social rejection. What happens we shake we get nervous sweat? And we get that fight or flight response. You're. Things you're in front of a room of lines. So that's nights. Right. So we know why people are afraid, but how do you actually overcome it? And that's really the big challenge. And that's why I am super excited for an old and very dear friend and coach of mine who is a public. Speaking expert for many many years, and he is here today to tell us how to overcome this fear of public speaking. How to beat this this brain trick? And and get us to be the best public speakers that we can possibly be. So with that being said, I would like to introduce Mr Tony Fiala. Tony thank you for being here. Thank you. Jim. This is really excited. Berry have never done one of these before. And I'm really looking forward to good. And you haven't done one of these before because considering all of the people that, you know, over the years all the work that you've done with public. Speaking of coach, thousands of thousands of people, and I'm the lucky. I person- have you. I am very lucky to be here. Great, maybe this'll be my first of many many because you have a lot of good knowledge. A lot of good knowledge to share. So tell us a little bit about you. You are. Some would call the master of public speaking right with the with the impact you've had on so many people with the work that you've done, especially with me. I mean, this was twenty something years ago that we worked together. Why public speaking a little bit about you? And why love public speaking? And all the good stuff. Well, you know, I've been teaching at the same prep school premier preschool. Holy Ghost prep for thirty nine years. I think that's about to end because I'm getting a little tired. But I've been running their speech and debate team all that time, and I just developed a passion for it. And it's either that or my cat's that's pretty much. It's pretty much what I do. But I've loved every second of it. And. I just love making people grow, you know, into who they can be. And what's really great about that? Especially at a prep school time. As you have a lot of people who are multiple at that time. Right. So it's very transitionary period for individuals, and it's a very open time in a challenging time for a lot of people. So to add over the challenge of learning how to speak in public with all of the stuff going through has to be a pretty unique challenge. Yeah. Well, you know, I can recall many kids like one Carl Carl couldn't stay still, you know, his his freshman year, and he slurred a lot. Okay. But I said, no, no you have it. You have the gift. Let's just clear out the good. So that the gift can shine. And in my world he wanted national title by his junior year. And so I like to prove to people that they can do it. It's just they need somebody to help them clear out the weeds. So that the flowers can grow. So for Carl you saw the gift. Yeah. Yeah. Does. Everybody have the gift. Well, it's like connecting wouldn't be a great actor. People can be actors. I don't think anyone can be a great actor. Okay. But people can always be way better than they think. They can. Yeah. You know, that's my opinion. Now when you see the gift and someone like Carl prep school student teenager, essentially, do you see how it an adult when you think about upgrading to? Let's grab someone in their forties. Ryan who's going through this? You know, I'm gonna corporate job or something. How did they tap into that gift? Well, I find that. I have helped some pretty significant people over the years. One was Maron all sap who has the conductor of the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra helter, writing, his speech and helter deliver a speech and some other people perhaps even more famous and I find they had the same problems. It's no different. They're just as scared. They lacked the body control. They lack the vocal variety. They lacked the passion when they're up there. I mean, they could perform the heck out of any text. But when they're speaking, you know, the character for side disappears. They have to be themselves. So I don't I have not found any different working with an adult or even inexperienced adult or kit. Same thing now. So they're they're afraid right? Why do you think people are afraid is it because they have to take the character facade and actually have to show their true selves? You said it at the beginning. You know, I go back to book that I read in high school. Why am I to tell you who I am right in the answer to that is because you may not like who I am. And that's all I have. So you know, we want to be liked. We are mostly out directed, especially when we're up on stage, we feel vulnerable. So I I think you need to get out of your head, you know, and not give the audience that much power and just have time. Okay. A lot of other things. I could talk about now. But that's generally my advice. Get it out of your head. Don't give them the power. Enjoy yourself up there. And then they will enjoy you as well. So getting something out of your head sounds like a lot of reflective work because I feel like it's about being comfortable with yourself. And when the older so quote, how can anyone be satisfied in life? If they're not satisfied with the person that they can't be separated. Unto you. So is that the first step to being effective public? Speakers figuring out who you are an individual to be comfortable. Well, yeah. Yeah. I guess, but I'm more about. Learning your body learning. Your voice learning your wording and learning how to control with those three the audience by carrying about them. But also using techniques to pull him at your world. So it's a matter as I said before stripping away, the guk to give you that total control of body voice. Face gesture, emotions and words, and that takes time, but. Once you have one taste of success, you go for golf. Yeah. One good hit. And then maybe you're interested ally Choi golf for the first time this summer in Florida face again. I've ever good. Well, I didn't hit anything into the water. I did what do you call? It did the driving rage. But. I knew this wasn't for me. You learn. Well, so, you know, golf, isn't for you. What about people who try to give their first speech, and they say now speaking for me, well, everybody's makes every day. So you have to kind of tell them you do this. Okay. Is just you're not used to a lot of people looking at you at the same time. So that's the kind of thing Ryan, courage. Everyone not to give up what because you do it. It's just a matter of shining shining it up making it good. You know? So when you go. Thinking through. We talked about the strategy of being, you know, yourself in front of people getting out of your hat, right? And that's a strategic, but then you've got techniques and tactics. What is the most important step first step that a person could take if they're looking to adjust or improve their their speaking capability? Well, I have a kind of an acronym that I call be C C P P BCC PV, I know say that a couple of times drink of. The first is belief. Okay. The belief that at some point you will be really good at this. Okay. If you don't think you're going to be good at this. You won't be good at this. So again, get out of your head get rid of the negatives. You know, send him on a vacation for a little bit. Not too far. You can't afford it. But just just believe in yourself. So that's number one number two. Oh, I also used to make students at adults say this phrase over and over I have come to bring you joy to make the world better place. So if you see yourself as someone who's bringing the guest to people, and all of a sudden, you feel a little more empowered. Sometimes if a kid or adult will stop a make them say that line five times, and then make them back because you want to you want to empower their mind wanna put the positive thoughts their minds, and once they do that things are kicking things that move to shift the power. Yeah. Exactly. The next thing. I said before it's control you want control of the body control of the is control of Vogel's. There's a lot of things invoked goals. It can be fast. It could be slow can be loud, soft, right and implicit in the vocals is contrast like the whole world turned our injury. Now, you probably wouldn't even see our Inge you'd see nothing because there's no contrast similarly, if you want people to pay attention, you have to play with the variables to get them to lean it if let's say the air conditioned goes on right now. Okay, or the heater we'd here, and that we wouldn't hear it anymore because we've heard it so much we don't pay attention. But when it stops. What happens we look, and we noticed that something changed? So you have to give them as many possible contracts, and that will that's one. Of the techniques to to get the audience to really be with you, even if they don't want to be there. And let's face a lot of times. They don't you know. You know there because there were they have to be in a school situation of something like that. Yeah. Great. And the other one's passion. I always tell this this simple story if. Jim if I gave you five envelopes, and I said, you have five hours to stamp these five under loops, I what a boring thing that is it requires no energy requires nothing. And if I were to watch do it it would be like a Samuel Beckett play like nothing to be done for like, two hours. But if I said, your little puppy that you just guy is on the window sill in your five story, New York apartment and the window is open. You were dash right to that window, the savior puppy, and in that intensity, you know, there's energy. So you have to figure out when Chang energize with passion, and with intensity, you know, different parts of your speech, different parts of your presentation. The next Pete is preparation if you know. What you're talking about? You don't have to over obsess with with structure with you're gonna have that. And if you get lost you're not gonna you're not gonna fall apart because you are the expert. So you do your research, you do everything ahead of time. And then crucially you practice out loud years ago. I was invited to give a speech in South Dakota. It was a South Dakota speech and debate state conference, and I wrote of the speech almost word for word, and I never do that. But I was bored on the airplane. I to flights and I did it. And then when I got to tell said, we really don't need to only the practice this out loud. And I went no, I think I should. Well, what I practiced it out loud. It was for hours and the speech was only supposed to be an hour and a half. Okay. I did not know. I know that because initially I practiced in my head. You can't practice in your head. You have to air it out Lau. So I always tell people do it out loud once verbally, then if you have your your camera videotape yourself because you're going to see something that might annoy you or you're going to see somebody that you love. Okay. Either way you have some tools to work on before you get to the real presentation and the final P. I call personalization. Two things number one. You let the audience know with your is that you care about them. And you care about their understanding, you know, peering, one on one into the eyes of one person shaking your head to one person to say, the again, it do you understand it makes the audience feel? I mean, as they should feel that you care because if you come off somebody who's just rating who's just dropping words out of their mouth like a dead mice. That was an poet uphold years ago, they're not gonna care. Okay. And the other part of personalization is connect yourself to the topic. Whatever it is somehow show that it's important to you not just court into them. But important to you because they you become somebody super. Credible. The ethos aspect just hits the ceiling. If you could tell a personal example. As the how this topic impacted your life, and usually in the speech world that comes in the seven minute, Mark. If it's ten minutes beach. It's at the seven minute Markovits, the twenty it's the fourteen minute Mark at usually where people wanna hear something like that interesting. There is a structure then to how you want to articulate your speech other so many structures there really are there are so many. And if you know the structures, you have to learn them that actually would make you very successful doing extemporaneous speaking. Okay, except herreni's making, you know, as you know, speaking of the cuff with more Jhelum Nana preparation, it's different from a prompt or where you like no preparation, but if you know how to organize things in your head a head of time, then things will just flow. You know? You know, I have told students give me a topic and in five seconds. I can create a fluent interesting seven minute speech and their jaws drop, and I say, well, I've been doing this for a while. But at the same time, I'm using structures that I know I'm using principles of organization that I know I'm using developmental things that I know which is basically name it. Explain it give an example of it summarizing. Okay. So I know that's what I'm going to do for each of the points. So what looks like magic is really a lot of things that have been deep set in my mind that I just go back to and then I just hope I have, you know, interesting things to say that our novel that are useful. But usually an extemporaneous situation, you know, it's about something, you know, it's not about something. You don't know some random topic? Yeah. Pronto could out talk about cockroaches. Or thought about anything? Talk about my cats that could be us, not an expert on cockroaches. No. I don't have any here. We have. We do have answered when I put the cats it out right near the window. Forget it get. It's the answer heating it. More than two cats. Okay. So so that's interesting. So the way that you've separated this. Is really content versus presence persona, right? So content is a process that you keep in your head. Would you can basically research different types and learn that and practice that to say, how do I organize something in my mind to just filter and put things in an appropriate path. So then I'm able to speak on any particular topic at any particular time where you give that to me. And I know how to structure in my head, right? We'll just take saying that takes practice. Right. But then you've also got the persona aspect with your individual belief that you're going to be successful all the way through your BC's peas into personalization and preparation how much preparation should a person spend on creating content versus preparing their presence. And preparing how they're going to present themselves in front of. Well, I really depends on how good you are in both. You know, I'm more of a content person because I like to lis-. Listen for the information. But I could be distracted by bad delivery. Now. This is my vice when you're preparing content. You have to remember that there are different kinds of listeners in the audience. And usually it's based on how you were raised as a kid. So for example, most people like examples because most of us as kids were told stories were read fairytales. Okay. So that's like part of our chemistry like right away. Some people had very unemotional upbringings for whatever reason. Okay. They're not used to touchy feely stories. So they are going to look for facts and statistics, if you give that person just examples they're going to be bored because they want the facts, then you have people who were raised by. I don't want to be offensive. But let's dicta to'real. Parents children should be seen. But not her, you know, that kind of apparent where they feel as if their opinion is not important, but thority are. So they are the kind of people because of how they were raised looking for authorities according to Dr so and so from Harvard University, according to the yell review they want to hear that because that's how they were raised. So I was taught by one of my men. Ters landing late landing negligent from Texas. I was taught that it's best in every part of your speech. To sprinkle. A little bit of each of those okay, always are in on the side of more examples because most people like examples, but again, if it's an example, heavy speech, the intellectual is gonna think, oh, this is nonsense. Okay. And the test one who needs a thority is gonna feel like. No-one important is telling me any of this. I don't think I should believe it, and I found that when I help people write speeches when I make them do that instantly their speeches more successful content. And what's interesting about that is that it's based on a person's individual history on a surly demographic. So if you're giving a speech to a group of counts where you're giving speech, a group of teachers or you're giving a speech to real estate agents it regardless of what industry or whatever type of group, you're talking to you're going to have different histories. Yeah. It's about the individual. It's not about the group. The group collective. Yeah. All it's important. I think headed time obviously to know about the group collective sure, you know, audience analysis, and so important sometimes you can fail before you even begin by not asking about, you know, the components of your audience. You know, is there is there a sex makeup? Is there an age makeup is? An education makeup is there a racial makeup, you need to know because you need to sprinkle out something for everybody. I hate to say, but it's like, you know, whenever you see a college advertise for its university. It's university. There's always, you know. A certain five six people in the picture. You know what I'm saying? Right. Because they wanna say we welcome everybody. Okay. Well, that's the same thing. When you're giving a speech. You don't wanna Elliott anyone, you know, not at all one time. I was asked to give a speech to I thought were a grade school kids, and I don't remember what the topic was it was a long time ago. So I put it and my my information my content was germane to the young kit. Right. It was funny. It was cute. It was genyk. And then I walked in. And no it was their parents not only that it was their mothers. Right. So instantly. I had to just change tactics in my head because I realized some of the examples were not going to speak to the moms in the room. You know, they may have reached the boys, but not the moms. So I made the Rebecca that. And so I try not to do it again. And I imagine that's part of you know, that just goes under the bucket of preparation, right? Yes. Not only preparing the words going to say, but how those words gonna land on who's listening. Absolutely. Now. What what advice would you have for someone who did that preparation, but it was the wrong preparation? And now, you have you walk in and say, this is suddenly become a somewhat extemporaneous speech. Even though I prepared some words, how do you adapt to something like that? Well, you know, I might use the phrase now if I were speaking to your son's, I would say this, okay? And then come up with something. But I'm speaking to you. So I'm saying this. So you can still use some of the things you have letting them know that this would have been directed to somebody else. But then you have to come up you have to be like right there on the ball coming up with something original. And you know, you can I do believe people people think quickly on their figure don't think they. They do they do. I think. Depending on the stressful situation, we could come up with a very creative things. And US content versus delivering, you know, in this world to say it, but delivery, always Trump's and no pun intended, always trunks content. You know, because how many times do people say things incredibly well, but make no sense. You know, so you need you need with contrast to win people over with your delivering. So that your content shines through because content could get lost in a bad delivery case in point. I went years ago in the eighties to English literature conference for college professors, not a college professor, and I thought okay, this'll be interesting. I wanna see how they present. Well, what generally they did is they open their text and they read quickly. And in a monotone that sounds awful. Yeah. I'm looking around and I'm going well. Yeah. It was awful to me to the people in the room that was their expectation. Right. Like, they didn't care. They were just listening for the content. But for somebody like me who was new I I could not pay attention. I really couldn't. So. Yeah, I learned because of that that yet there are some people intellectuals who just want that and that room just had all that that tight, but you need to appeal everybody. Yeah. So what advice would you give for someone who wants to learn how to tell a story? So I worked with a lot of clients just on presence. And you know, the terrible, you know, public speaking because of whatever and a lot of times in order to make it. So you're just telling the story whatever it is. So it doesn't even matter who the audience is tell the story that you wanna tell what advice do you have for someone because storytelling? I mean, there are some amazing groups out there with mazing storytellers, and you can get into a rabbit hole of how to tell a great story. But what tips would you have for someone who needs to learn how to tell a story? Well, first of all. Telling his story has now become the equivalent of let's have a conversation. In other words, it's used a lot and not just in the context of speaking. You know actors have used this phrase, pre Oscars, you know, on happy that I was able to tell my story in that film or to tell his story in that film. And this is what I think it means number one. I think it means that there is an honesty, and truthfulness and a connection to the store. You are telling it's meaningful to you. And as a result. It's meaningful to them. Second in every good story. You have to begin this is from Covey's book years ago. Right. Seven habits of highly effective people seven seven there, we go. Okay. You have to begin with the end in mind. Because if you don't you can spiral out of control, you know, you need to know where you're going. And then you incrementally need to build to that finish. Okay. So that's that's what I always tell people, you know, where you're going with the story and get their the shortest way the longer it takes the more. You will. Well, the more you will board more you read out of a textbook. Exactly. One more question for you. So you talked about. When we talk about sitting in front of a group, right? And this could be you know, we talked about before we did this podcast. You've got different types of got auditorium speeches, and you've got classroom speeches, and you've got meetings speeches and each one takes a different version of you. Right. And that's based on your audience based on your preparation, and your belief that you're going to be successful. And all that other stuff. But your challenges are different free twelve year an auditorium. You're not necessarily seeing faces. But it's you know, you know, it's a lot of people. So it's nerve racking in a meeting or small work presentation. You may only have five people where you're right in front of everybody. And it's it may actually be more nerve wracking. What advice do you have for someone to overcome that nervousness? How do you get that belief system into your mind that yes, this could be a total disaster? But I know what I'm talking about. I am an expert, and they are here to learn from me, and I'm spreading this joy to this world. Whatever topic it is. What is it? Reflective. Is it, you know, do you practice in front of a mirror, and you know, kinda Stewart smiley snuff? Yes. You are love then you know, all that. What what can people do to overcome this? Well, I if you're a guy check your zipper. There was one time where I was at the Arden theatre, and I was introducing show, and I've looked impeccable in black and it was a long time ago. So I still had my hair, and I was still a little bit dashiki and everything was black and everything was sparkling. And then a little old lady about seventy eight years old when he she was sitting in the front row, and I'm like. And then she goes he and she takes her finger, and she points below my belt, everyone saw I was wearing red underwear. Nice. Okay. I mean, it was like you couldn't miss it. Okay. So casually, I closed the jacket and just pretended. Nothing happened. Of course, sometimes the best way to deal with that is making a joke about it. You know, but I didn't have time wasn't a speech. It was just an introduction. So that's just a silly example of what you need to do couple of couple of hints. I think if you're speaking to an auditory, I always tell people it's easier. Because you can't see there is. And I was tell them chunk the audience into four, you know, look at this fourth as if it's one person look at this fourth as if it's one person look at this fourth as if it's one person and very where you place your contact. What this is what I mean. Don't go like, I'm looking totally left. And then I looked right. Nets to it. And then I looked right next because that becomes predictable and boring. So I might begin on the far left and say a couple lines, and then I might shift to the far right and say a couple lines, and then I move next. And then I may not do the one I skipped I may go back to the first. In other words, the more contrast, you give them visually, even the better. The better it is and. In terms of basically, it's the same same speech skills you use but you should be less. Intimidated by stage because you don't see people giving you like, oh, you're terrible or or you see them falling asleep. Sometimes I do when I'm tired, and I'm in the theater in row one. I forget where I was in New York a couple of years ago. But I think I was watching something rotten the fun Shakespeare parody, and it was wonderful. But I was really tired. And the guy stamp. Right in front of me. And what me up I gave them thumbs. And that was pretty much. And turns them meetings. Some people say jockey for position if it's an a circle try to sit in the middle. Maybe it's a semi circle try to sit in the middle or close to the middle. And and some people say try to make the first comment because it shows you're interested and shows you're eager I find that. If there are issues with meetings, either, you don't know parliamentary procedure because most official meetings are run by that. So you really need to get to know it. But Secondly, I think. You feel like I have nothing to offer. So what I suggest is you bring your game to the game. You know, you say something like, you know, I'm the youngest person in this room. And I think my perspective represents a March perspective out there. And this is what it is. Or you may say, you know, I'm about to retire her been here for so many years. I like to give you historical perspective on where things are. And I think we're things need to go. Or you could be the activist would have, you know, whether it's a race activist or sexual orientation activists, or whatever, and they say, I'm representing this hear my voice. So if you can bring the U that represents other us to the meeting, they will respect, you even more, and then you'll have to worry about not not knowing enough or feeling like you're not into it enough or feeling like, oh, you're too new at this meeting, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, which isn't a soda it. Almost sounds like you're separating. So you're bringing your game. But in in in a technical term, you're separating yourself from you. So you are representing your perspective. Which is you know, that's not right or wrong. It's just a perspective. You are representing a group. So you're speaking on behalf of other people, which sometimes. His easier to do. So that's that's great. It's really cool. The other thing I wanted to say is. We had mentioned this a little bit in the beginning. But I wanted to talk about it because we talked about fear. And you're you're hilarious. When you introduced the, death and stuff and eulogy. I totally agree with you. I was trying not to laugh, I didn't know if I was supposed to you're allowed. But I was laughing. So these are some of it some of the tips that I give people that they used in combination could be helpful in eliminating fear. And therefore in allowing you just go for it. I Nicole is the breath of life, and it's very true. If you take like five or ten deep breasts slow slow in slow out. You will relax yourself. There are a lot of other techniques that I'll have time to get into here, you need to see it that are even more helpful with breathing. But it does work also with breathing. If you feel you're boring, and you know, sometimes I am, okay. Sometimes I'm not depend. On how boring whatever whatever you describe. I don't know. I think when I was in the front row. Something rotten something's rotten. You say your your words while yawning? Because when you yawn, you aerate, your words, and your your words, get taken to places you normally wouldn't take so. How are you? Like, I've done things that I don't normally do with my voice. So once you do that kind of thing you subliminally give your body permission to go there. So that's that's pretty good with that whole breath thing the other thing I called talk to the trees some people just don't project flouted of. So I always tell them even with a microphone sometimes they still mumble or they looked down. Pretenders of the audience is like three times farther away. So I might say, hey, Jim how you doing today? Good seeing you you look great. How's mom house? Dad? How's your family? I'm speaking if you are farther away, but in energizes, my voice, and when you use energy, it you also use your nervous energy for a positive reason. Like nervous energy means. You're not using me, dude. Use me I'm here. And that's why it's rattling, and that's why you're shaking. You're not using it. Then I call something steer into the skid. I was taught by. My driving teacher we used to call him Aldo chain. His name was Aldo. And he was chain. Smoking are still in the car. He was like once we were like dying because I'm allergic to cigarette. Smoke like one cigarette after another. And he said, you know, if you're on ice and you start to skid to the right, don't go. Lest you have to stay with the right until you get control, and then you could hopefully steer out of it. And that's the same thing with with speaking. So if your leg is shaking, your leg is saying can you walk a little bit so walk if your hands feel shaky or tents use a big gesture find a place where you can open your hands. Why or point way in the back to somebody in the audience, get your hand in Volve steer more in the direction, and that's also related to what I call intense? The tenseness. So if you have shaky hands or you have nervous feet what I tell people do is beforehand can't up every part of your body that tends to show nervousness because once you tense them up for like, ten seconds. Fifteen seconds right afterwards. You shake it out. It's an estate of relaxation. So you're beginning relaxed. Okay. Next hit the man in the moon. Call it that that means you know, I was on a baseball team in grade school. Okay. I quit because the the pitcher threw a bowl my. I mean, not the coach through all my head. Because I when I hit hit ball and practice it hit him. Of course, I need it. And he as mature adult that he was chose to almost kill me. So I quit after that. But. He did tell us you have to imagine yourself hitting the home run, you know, that you wanna hit that ball so high and so far you're gonna hit the moon, and you know, sports coaches, you know, always tell their their athletes that you have to see yourself succeeding, and that's very very very important positive visualization is very important next is tap into your superhero. Some of the shyness people in the world naturally are great actors who can do anything. And what they basically say is when I'm there and being somebody else I own it. But I'm still kinda shy myself. Well, all you have to do is pretend you're somebody else. If I told you to lift a fifty pound weight, Jim you would do. And then I people holding that way, and I'm gonna adding fifty of course. That would be pretty easy. But if I said a Matic another hundred you had probably don't like this. And I said adding another. And of course, there's no late there. Right. So it's mind over matter. Okay. So we can't pretend we are superman, delivering a speech, a wonder woman, delivering speech, so many superheroes on these marvel fills delivering it works. It really really works. Final thing. I think is hilarious. I this is relating to high school. But I've used it with adults to I call it Kotel hell, I had a sophomore years ago who was bringing Tonkin, and I said Anthony, you said Anthony. Come on in. You could be a national finalist. Now, Jim was the national champion and a national finalist. So he knows what I'm talking about. It means top six in the nation out of three hundred people who qualify to the national tournaments pretty big deal. And he said, oh my God. I'm only aside more. Molly fifteen I said trust me. So we did some work. And when we got to the meat the day before it began, we sat in why sat in a very crowded lobby. And people were just all over they were trying to register check in. It was like chaos, and I sit Anthony you're going to deliver the speech to me for three hours. He said, you're kidding, right? I said, no you're going to do it and people were banging into him. There was noise. Galore people were looking at him people were talking, you know, around him or about him or asking what are they doing? Well, he made the top six and he said to me afterwards. He says. That hotel hell stuff. Everything was easy as to that. After that zoo that was a nightmare. Yeah. Right. It can't get any worse than that. So you know, I mean, I do that prudently would specific dulzura 'cause you don't wanna freak them out. But it works put them in the worst case scenario, and then just talking becomes really easy. So there's some of the hints that I you helpful ploys that I'm used out people giving it the nervousness. That's great. And it's, you know, it's I like mind over matter, right. Doing a speech. No matter how big or small what's the worst. It's going to happen right with your hotel. Hell you could imagine it's in front of that and people walking across you and everything else. So it's just that's great. Excellent. So, yeah, I, you know, I love working with high school students all the time and also many college students did that for couple of decades and in the last eight years with adults, and I just like. To make people improve you know, it's rewarding to me. And I know they appreciate it a lot like, you know, I've worked with with Jim and I've worked with his two brothers. Now, you know, Mike, and Kevin, and they were all national finalist. You know, and his mom Babs. And every you know, just you meet some wonderful people. And, you know, I'm proud of them proud of you know, anybody that I've helped in any way. And so that's that's rewarding to me even beside any of the victories, or any of them successful speech is the fact that people have grown, and they become you know, who they who they could. And that's and that goes back to what we talked about at the beginning. You know, you you've worked with so many people at fundamental points in their lives and giving them a platform where you could learn to speak in public, which is the most frightening. Thing the most people could do and they can do it. Well and having a successful track. So many people being able to do it. Well is as mazing. It's it's amazing that that, you know, everybody has a gift, and when you find someone who's able to bring that gift Atta people, it's a it's a pretty special things. Good testaments, man. That's. Yeah. No regrets. No regrets regrets. There's a lot of people would agree with that no regrets. The they've benefited off. I always ask everyone recommended book. Do you have any kind of book recommendation one I just got in and I've been behind in reading for various reasons, but I'm a reader of plays. I love reading plays because it forces me to imagine everything else that novel gives you. Okay. So last year's Pulitzer went to a play called the cost of living. And it's a fascinating play about to the relationship to to not couples. But let's say, you know, person a person bay in person see person do and one in each set has a severe challenge disability or whatever. And it's you know, the cost of living. You know, does that make life not worth living? Does that? So I'm glad that Amedee play one. Because it's I didn't start it yet. I'm really exciting. But it very relevant which is something that most people can can relate to someways wishy perform, absolutely great. I also read a lot of self help books. Those are good, you know, somewhere titles. I couldn't really say. Attracted to those like, you know, nasty tiny funny, but they're good. They're really could get you thinking. Yeah, they do get you thinking, you know, this purpose. Lutely grit will Tony this has been fantastic. I know a lot of people are gonna really benefit from this, especially those individual tactics, and separating content and and presence and delivery and all that stuff. So you are an expert you are legend, you are a phenomenal human being. So we are thrilled to have you on this episode more than anything I'm in need of cannoli. That can be arranged. Thank you very much. Thanks. Thank you so much for listening. Now, do something for yourself bellwether as much more than just a podcast. Join us at bellwether hub dot com where you can read riveting articles view upcoming events and connect with other interesting people. I look forward to seeing you soon.

Jim Frawley Mr Tony Fiala Ryan golf New York South Dakota Carl Carl Molnar Berry Samuel Beckett Maron Carl prep school Harvard University Baltimore Symphony Orchestra US professor Inge Vogel Choi
76. The Princess Bride (1987)

Full Cast And Crew

1:20:03 hr | 1 year ago

76. The Princess Bride (1987)

"Then welcome to the forecast. Grew podcast formerly thank you? I think you're the first. Well I guess Rick Brown would have been the first super listener to then appear as guest on the podcast but you are the second most exclusive category of listener these super listener. Hold a distinction now. Okay what's that I believe? I am the person you have known the longest whoever to guest on the. I think I've known you longer than Kim. Yeah without question. It's only a year probably now. I didn't meet James. Until the nineties. Okay denying the person who you have. Yes longest I have known the longest. I feel like because of the tagline that you now use your podcast. I believe in all those years. This is the first time that you've ever expressed that. You love me as so not true. Ben Totally told you that in the you've told it to me in your actions drew our come high of use those words. I might have said. Man. I'm on just now and I wanna see if it sounds familiar now. I feel awkward and I love you and I have no problem saying I'm just going to let that silence hang really writing her own. Love Story you're not in love story yes it did okay so you chose this movie. Princess Bride. Is this movie particularly important to you? Yes it's it's one of my favorite films so even if I were just choose from a list of favorites it would be there. It would it would. It would definitely be in my top ten but it also holds a very special place in my heart for a number of reasons. I assume most of which we will cover. Okay well. Why don't you tell me what some of them are so to start? I love this movie from the first time I saw it and I saw it when it came out and pretty you know perfect timing I was probably eighteen or nineteen. I mean every time I wasn't too young too old for this hit me just right and at the time. I don't think I knew who William Goldman was. I knew Rob Reiner was because I'd seen the sure thing and spinal tap and of course let's mouth happened and that was why I was excited because of having lunch vinyl top to us on stage but it's very very special because if you can see yeah the numbers will go to eleven look raw across the board eleven or seven. Most Eleven. An Ams. Go Up to ten exactly. Does that mean? It's louder isn't any louder. Well it's one louder isn't it? It's not ten. You say. Most most blogs play at hand. You're on ten here all the way up all the way up the way. You're on ten on your tall. Where can you go from that where? I don't know exactly what we do is if we need that extra push over the cliff you know what we do. Put it onto avenue. Exactly ONE LA wanted you. Just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder these kinds of eleven at the time. I don't think I do. Golden wasn't as I said. But but but I very quickly after that grew to love William Goldman and I love golden as a writer both as a novelist and as screenwriter so I taught third grade for many years when I was a teacher and I taught fifth grade for many years when his teacher when I taught third grade. I did not read this book to them by the way. I'm someone who saw the movie. I then read the book but I absolutely loved the buck. And if I if I were to think that I'm hoping to accomplish anything today. It's it's to encourage people who have seen. The movie had not read the book to read the book because okay own experience which is also fantastic but anyway So I I did not read the book to third graders when I taught third grade but I did read the book every year to my fifth graders when I taught fifth grade and I think that that says a lot about those two ages actually. It's actually pretty interesting. Litmus test of the difference between those two ages that eight-year-olds really aren't quite ready for the book. The Princess Brandon and ten year olds really are any broadly. How is the book different than the movie other than the typical thing of well? It has deeper characterizations in motivations for everybody the way the film is framed? Is this idea that there's a sick young child? And he's being read this story by his grandfather. I GET SPECIAL PRISON. Nice right when I was your age. Television was called books and this is a special book was the book. My father used to read to me when I was shipped and I used to read it off and today. I'm going to read it to you the book that's taken from the book but the way it is from the book is that. William Goldman is pretending that there is a book called the Princess Bride written by this guy s morgenstern who was degrade. Florida's writer of his time in Florida history and that William Goldman. When he was a little boy was read this book by His. This is all fiction. Of course Was read this book by His. Uncivilized and unsophisticated barber father. He only came to realize later when he was a combat. Just like the boy in the movie when he finally got his hands on the book that his dad had lashed out all these huge parts of the book so he then decides to set up to re write it and writes it as the good parts version of the princess bride. And that's sort of how this can be. I have no idea going a novelist outside of being a screenwriter. So I got the book and I started reading it. I was so confused through the First Fifty. Sixty five pages. I had no idea what was going on. I had no idea if s concern. This was like some manning scripted. Bill Nevada I'm looking on the map is four in a real country all the Meta stuff I was like. What is this? Why is this and even in the movie itself? Why do you think there is that device? Do we need the Peter? Falk Fred savage device. What does that give the narrative other than those moments where it stops and starts and goes into different directions that the purpose for the device when the story gets to a place that we don't want it like Wesley Dead. That Peter Falk is the engine by which the story then turns in. It's just a little like writer. Lee Trick Yours really interesting because I think the device which is very similar serves a different purpose in the book than it serves in the movie. I think he originally did it in the buck to sort of save themselves the pain in the ass so that when he gets to a part where he's like. I know in a book like this one I should do is write this about this and described this when it allows them to do as he can step back and go This point in the book s morgenstern goes into this long winded description of X Y and Z. And it's so boring so I actually think that is the reason half the reason the other reason is you know the the story of how this came to be is that he he had just finished writing something. It was time to write something else. He had two young daughters in the book. He claims his one overweight son. But that's not true. He has two young and he said to his daughters. What should I read about next? And one's princesses and the other said. Brides? And he said I'm going to write the princess bride like that literally. The story of how that came about but in the movie I think what it does is first of all. It's a very for most people. That's a familiar experience right. I don't know you know as a only child working single mother. I thought this spoiled Little Brat. Getting ready to with a cold was like shut. Suck it up okay. He's such a jerk. He's such a jerk. I grandfather yeah he likes. What are you doing like yelling out? Do you think that Peter? Falk is wearing his Colombo shirt and tie. Because I do well. Let's let me start with how much Jack I love it. So of this camels here. Would you believe it the first thing I did this morning when I left to campaign headquarters I run right over? Taylor's I'm sure it was delighted. He loves the challenge. What do you mean small joke or you made about fitting me. I'm not just the legs are something goes funny and here with the legs kicked jackets. Pick them right off the rack. They feel like a glove. I think that I actually think Peter Falk is a little bit. Doing is Columbia was a GRANDPA. That would be amazing by the way in researching a little bit for this podcast. I found out something so fascinating that I'd never known before. Do you know that Peter Fox has two daughters? One of them is a private detective. Yes hats amazing to me. Yes of course following in her father's love that I love that turning to reality Peter Falk also pre-stages sort of thing that's going to occur in this fantasy movie which is like. Okay Fred. Savage is clearly in Chicago given the memorabilia yet. His grandfather is like from Brooklyn and we have many sort of agglomeration of different accents. Going on within the within the characters in the movie itself. Right. So it's it's sort of just leads it another kind of go anywhere and do anything. There's a there's a story were Wally Shawn Says Rob. I don't know how to do a Sicilian accent. And he says don't worry the seaney talks like you just keep going. We are but poor. Lost Circus performers is their village nearby. There is nothing there by not for miles and there will be no one to hear you scream okay so yes as you mentioned the movie had a tortuous route to production and I actually have a hot take revenge you know usually I am anti any remaking anything classic own like I don't. I don't really appreciate when they say. We're going to remake the princess bride in twenty twenty two would however which they said they were GONNA do. They said they were GONNA do in. There was a big outcry. Carry always tweeted about it ever Businessworld yeah I found myself agreeing with someone. I rarely ever agree with Richard Brody from the New Yorker and he wrote this long Which of course devolves into Kim comparing rebates from filmmakers? I have never heard of nor have ninety. Nine point nine percent of any sentient. Humans hurt but he basically advocates that they should remake this movie and actually think they should. I think they should because I think one of the flaws of the film in the time period that it was made is it just. It was too low budget. For what the fantasy elements of the film really would support him. It's not that they didn't do a great job with what they had. But if you imagine all of these different Meta narratives and things that are going on with today's filmmaking techniques actually think it would be a really interesting film to remake and I also think that you could repair the character of buttercup who in this movie in several articles I was I was laughing. Because they refer to her as essentially just like a sack of gold that gives treated amongst Glenn. She's not a real person so it'd be an interesting thing to do. It's funny because that you know for the listeners. To know we were originally going to do the movie diner which is also one of my favorite films also does not treat me back with with very much. So let's talk about you lose when when you're talking. I think it was dirty dancing episode test and at the time that you were going to enhancing I I was we. We were preparing that I was GONNA do diner with you and I thought Oh man a minor so badly that that like the each go back a grade like not only not only are there justice you about characters some of them. Not even they definitely. Don't talk to each other. They definitely don't talk about anything. That's not amount but this is this is the the key to me. Is that if you talk about. The plot of diner of which there is not much. If you talk about the plot you almost inevitably would have to mention the wedding. It's how the movie ends the through lines around so if you're describing the plot of the movie diner someone who's never seen it and they're like. Oh well there's an answer when a WHO plays the wife you'd be like she's not a garter character. You don't need to worry about that. So yeah let me switch over. This will be which also fails the back. Although I did see in an online forum that some people like to claim it passes two of the three steps of the backed out because the the witch woman yelling boo. Ask Her is talking. Buttercup wow that's going characters and it's gone that's going pretty Delta true. It's not you know that is resentment your take very interesting. I I hear you about the I am in the. Us is so terrible so terrible terrible. There's so many moments that you can see little things in the you know the the famous stories that under the giant who was hired mostly because messiahs had literally no strikes. He was probably the weakest person on set back was injured from years of wrestling and he could bear any weight. So all the scenes where he's carrying Robin Right. She's actually suspended on wires exactly so if you look at the cliffs of Insanity in closely you can see the line that's been cut into the cliffs because there's obviously a hydraulic left. Airing it you know. I hear all that but for me. I think that that low level really adds chart. I think it's nice that it's not see I think right. But his that charm now or is that charm. When he saw moment in the moment did it feel like a movie of its. I was in nineteen eighty. Eight eighty six was donated. Next came out in eighty seven. I think that it is so well cast that. I think I really think there was no. There's no mistake in casting in this field and I think it would be almost impossible to cast this film now and do it well and certainly GonNa give you. I'm GonNa Give You my rundown on. Who's WHO's good in this movie and who is not okay. Number one mandy. Patinkin is great when I was a strong enough dedicate my life to the study of fence so the next time we meet. I hope I will go up to six finger man as long. My name is a new AMANTEA. Kill my father. Prepare many phenomenon Andre. The giant is phenomenal. There's why you couldn't cast this film now. That he is the person for that role. Yes you can do that you could. You could figure out how to do that. Chris guest is good. Love Chris My favor Chris Guests story from the book. Which I'm sure you remember from as you wish as funny was Ticket and carry out. What trained so hard. Excellent actually became great sword fighters and in fact Mandy Patinkin. Who is right handed was so concerned about being good with his left hand that he trained much more than that and actually now is a much better starfighter with his left with his right hand by Chris Gas because he really only. Once in a sword fighting did did far less training. They got to that nurse day and when they started the sword fight scene. Rob Reiner you'll cut cut. And why what? What's wrong in there like Chris will edit in the sound later he was going Sh. What's actually funny? Because it's hard to think of another example of someone like Chris guests who admittedly had a long and storied career as a comedy writer and performer. Long before spinal tap came along. But I'm trying to think of another example of someone who is in an iconic movie like that as maybe the iconic character in the iconic movie who then goes on to make iconic comedy films I used to be able to name. Every nut was that used a drive. My mother crazy because she used to say Harland Pepper. If you don't stop naming nuts and the joke wasn't so so we lived in. I think that's what put it in my head at that at that point. So I'd go to see she'd hear me and the other room and she would just talk. Yellen Peanut Hazel nut cashew nuts macadamia nut. That was the one that was saying her into going crazy. Said you stopped naming nuts and Hubert used to be able to make the sound it. He wasn't talking but he was a raw theralac macadamia nut but it's also the name of the town. Pistachio nuts. Red Possession natural oil natural wax Stash. It's a testament to how good Robin Wright would become that in her. First FILM IN S thankless role has buttercup is and frankly kind of pretty insulting role for an actor on to be given I mean it sort of flakes or lack of agency. I mean I'm not just talking about twenty twenty is I'm talking about even in a fair. Ten like he just gives her. It's worse than the book. She's Dull Tara and all sorts book. He's got all this stuff about boobs kissing. It's like grow up already. I mean give me a break. But it's a testament to how great she is would become. She's eighteen eighteen nineteen years old and made this movie had only been on Santa Barbara this. I'd only been on the soap opera Santa Barbara and because she's that good even though she has nothing to do she she definitely. That's your captive good. You know. It's good cruelty reveals everything. The Dread Pirate Roberts visit with fried. What can I do for you you can die? Slowly into a thousand pieces complimentary Linus Lucille. Venema me kill my love possible. I can a lot of people. Was this love of yours. Another prince like this one ugly rich scabby no homeboy pool. Perfect is like a say after stole Chris. Sarandon is great a you need him his his charm his wits. That works really really well. It's odd but when I had Zini to have her murdered on our engagement day I thought that was clever. But it's going to be much more moving when I strangle her on her wedding night. Once gilded is blamed the nation will be truly outraged. They'll demand we go to war. I will say I don't think Wally Sean is good. And I don't and I don't think I love. I love carry always. I love his book. A very charming but one of the best and most heartfelt books about the making of movies that you can read is always book as you wish about baking of the princess bride however. I understand why he's in the movie I understand. He looks that way. They don't have any chemistry together. Him and Robin Wright do not there no sparks and while he sean is. It's like an idea that you would have over cocktails when you're talking about making the movie but you should have dismissed that idea after your second cocktail instead of signing the actor by your third cocker. You know the whole Star Wars. Because you've read as you wish but this is just it's pure he. He was definitively not the first choice when his agent called him. They told him he was in the third choice and told him the. Danny devito under Dreyfuss spends the entire movies. And he's going to get fired any minute. He spent the entire movie just trying to do what he fought. Danny devito would you in the part and the line reading for every single line he did. That is unheard of racquet. But that's a reiner thing buddy on everybody's fed he vet him every single line would show talk about it. He says that performance is really about a third. Rob Reiner third me and asserted. Danny Devito. Ride to the enormous on your. Am I going mad or did the word think escape their lips? You're not hired for your brains hippocratic landmass. I agree with Physic- The sock has spoken. What happens to her is not earlier. Concern I will kill her. Remember this never forget this what I found you fathering drunk. You couldn't buy Brandy and you friendless brainless helpless hopeless. Do you want me to send you back to where you were unemployed. In Green lands you said for example like the falling off the rock. He only did that because Rob Reiner showed him to do that. He said he would never have come up with that. I think it's weird. That Reiner does that as such a nice guy because like being buried to theater director and someone who works with actors all the time like you. Don't give a line reading to an actor that way. That's just not done. That's like an insect correct and carry always in his book. Actually so in his British way writes. I was surprised when rob offered me allied reading because as an actor. That's not the usual you know. And it's like basically it's his polite way of saying what the fuck John's but it sounds like people accepted that. At least I I guess I guess but I. This is my big contention is carrier was yes. He looks like a young Douglas Fairbanks Junior and he he has that. He's prettier than Robin Wright. Most but I watched it again last night. I was catching me at a bad time to watch the princess bride. Because I've just been going down a wormhole of like really brilliant Japanese wide-screen crime films of the sixties. That are all about societal conflict and Akira Kurosawa. All this kind of thing and then I'm like last night I put on the princess bride. I'm just like what is this marshmallow reality while the Dow now she did because we don't have TV here. We're quarantining without television. So I just watched my laptop and I watched all the making which I loved warranty and without television you deserve of metal but we do have ipads and computers. Yeah the casting. I walk me through some of the alternatives. Did they consider anyone other than carry always before they settled on him today? Consider anyone other than Robin Wright. No they chose Colonel West basically for his luck he had just been in lady. Jane and Rob Reiner was shown it either casting directors the Gaza actors Jane Jenkins and Janet Curtian Horn. I love going to casting directors. Imdb pages because instead of you know hundred. It's four hundred things so these are like these are top of the line cast yonkers. They're amazing Jane Jenkins says the Princess. Bride is her favorite film. She ever cast. This is interesting. I looked up the artis awards for the year. That House that that's the Casting Society of America awards loud. He's a great. Dinner started started in the early eighties. It's the Oscars for argues that like Greek forecasting or something. I don't know the answer to that or is it already already. O'shea legendary casting. There's an acronym but I don't want to try and figure it out right now but anyway so the year that this this was only the fourth audio's awards. They actually have an award ceremony for casting couch. I've never even heard of this. This is Matthew Engineer. So most of the craft organizations intelligent film actually have societies that recognize those particular crafts. And they distribute awards voted on by their here so in this case we have the Casting Society of America the CSA. Maybe you've seen the American cinema editors the ASCAP the American Society of cinematographers. On the sound side and pse notion pictures sound editors for on. Sound Mixing Side the Cinema Audio Society if you see letters after names and credits CSA CAS NPS. This is a designation that that person is really well regarded in their craft. And is that a really high level? These are pure organizations. Were MEMBERS RECOGNIZE EACH YEAR. Through a words. The craftsmanship of people in their particular area. And it's usually you know it's a high honor to be in a craft and be invited into these societies anyway. Back to the bought arguing for years that they should have an Oscar and forecasting kept saying now so that I would. I would celebrate an Oscar for casting director so I think the casting. This movie is passing probably speaks to my inability to get truly critical of the spell. Of course that I that I can't speak negatively to while Giancarlo because probably if I was introduced to this movie today or some other form. Maybe I'd be able to agree with you but I'm not going to be willing to but these are the these are the five films up for the Artas in one thousand nine hundred eighty three year that princess bride is one of the nominees radio days. The princess bride moonstruck broadcast news and baby blue and believe it or not even Scott to go to moonstruck broadcast news even though I think princess bride is one of my films ever and I think it's so how cast I was appalled. That broadcast news didn't win broadcast news. Moonstruck Yeah Fair enough for this news. Burqas News that's that is some of the greatest casting in movie history. I've never seen you like this with anybody. So don't get me wrong when I tell you the Tom. While being a very nice guy is the devil. This is a friendship. You're crazy not look like a few rent condos taken by a t tail. Come on what's he gonNA sound like. I'm semi serious ear. Your series people be attractive. He'll be nice and helpful. He'll get a job where he influences a great God fearing nation. He'll never do an evil thing. You'll ever deliberately hurt a living thing. He'll just bit by little bit. Lower our standards where important just a tiny little bit just coax along flash over substance. Just a tiny little bit and he'll talk about all of us really being salesmen and he'll get all the great women anyway that's broadcast news is cast not it's not surprisingly cast right so like yes Jack Nicholson as a news anchor. Okay I get that piece of stunt casting essentially doesn't have much to do in the movie. William hurt was a big star at the time. That's was molly under was but she also dismiss Cheetah raising zone like. That's okay I mean if you did that once if that's the only way you deserve a place. Good point about rushmore. I guess what it is is that when I think of those three performances Albert Brooks performance lamer performance and the performance. All three of those are cinematic goal. Sure but the unexpectedness of share as Italian Loretta Casarini and the balls to have nick cage. Go Full Nick Cage in this. Otherwise Romantic comedy is so unexpected in great. I I mean that's A. We've done the movie on the podcast people to listen to throw hot. Take your way I agree with you. You've made your like if you knew our friendship. That would be on cradling his bed and I like to go back and forth to agree to because as I think about what you're saying when you think about the arch of casting that yes even if those three great performances great you're expected them to be great growing going in it's not. It's not as impressive of an idea as maybe casting share as the lead. Okay let me ask you this D. Think that don't you think again. He so British so he's extremely polite but don't you think carry always in his book basically tells readers he and Robin Wright had an affair during the making of the film I mean he makes it clear that they have a very special connection. And that I mean the whole Eretz an entire chapter basically about how neither of them wanted to stop doing aches of the end kiss so okay so they considered no one other than him and no one other than Robin Wright. Don't Robert Wright was like the Brown right okay? She was was cast because they got fed up of looking for people. They did so much passing. But but no carry-on was the you know once once they had seen him in. Lady Jane Roger Flies to Berlin Demidov and once he says a couple lines. They're they're good with a he he tells the story that I'm you know. Rob Reiner concern. Was like he looked the part but could he handle the comedic part and that way they met. Arriola did an impression that doesn't hold up post the publication time of as you wish because it doesn't impression of Bill Cosby doing fat Albert and that's what Over the could handle that the huber. What's interesting about the humor? Is I think someone describes it as or maybe it was rob. Reiner described it as he wanted the cast. I think many Patinkin his hilarious in any making of feature. Don't know if you've watched the country but you can listen to many think until you story of how he decided to buy pants without pleats versus pants with leads and he would tear up and it would make it the most engaging in amazing story that you ever heard it'd be like an Indian. I turned to my wife and I said to her. I think I'M GONNA go without depletes. I mean he tells these stories. That are so incredible. I think he's the one who says that. Rob Reiner wanted every character in their own way to be like a card player who is only showing so many of their cards and to otherwise pretty much. Play it straight. Which as we know is the secret to good. Comedic acting is you have to commit. And that's why Patinkin of anyone in the film I think gives gives a fully realized and complete performance almost alone in the movie. He is someone who embodies I feel like I can tell you what that character was as a child as a as a grown man what he would likely have for breakfast like what his foibles would be. He was so all in and he's many of course he went so all in that. That's what you see on screen when an actor does that whereas like I mean Christopher guest could show up on and do what he did in the movie without knowing anything about what the movie was about and be as Larrea says yes like doesn't really require much characterization to be as wittily funny as Chris Guests can be off the topic given great lines but he but he takes the lines. He's given and he knows what he knows how to make. Hay while the sun is shining. There Rob Reiner said. He could play any party wanted and he they all say that they all say they're like what is okay. So what if I be Wesley? No no no meaning. What does that mean? You could play ego but wanted to be the bag. The famous Andre. The giant Samuel Beckett story has now been you know despite disabuse light. It was driving in a car together. They hit someone in a car. It's just it's it's that. Samuel Beckett took a home in the small town in France which happens to be under the dinesh hometown and the way the story goes Andre. The giant at fifth grader had already grown too large to fit on the school. Bus and Samuel Beckett owned the only convertible in town so Samuel Beckett agreed to drive Andre the giant to school everyday so this right so get your unfortunately it turns out not to be true. It is in fact true. Zero Becca did drive under the parts of art. True supposedly is Andre Giant. Could still on the school bus in naked gave all kinds of kids rides to school. He was a nice guy who was just helping out the whole community. And they form a specific personal bond. According to the people who I like to imagine it that it is the other way. There's another anecdote in one of the makings of like wait. What had to stop the whole thing down because somebody was like telling a story about Andrei and part of the story wasn't of course at the time. Andre had a farm in North Carolina. Wait what a former in North Carolina. Yes he likes to go and just be with the animals because they made him feel less freak strings and I was like. Wow so Andrei I mean is such a great example of someone who is wonderful in the movie not because he's a real giant actually but because the warmth of his soul is so omnipresent and oozes through every pore of every scene that he's in that you can still hear people talking about it you know twenty five thirty five years later when they're talking about him and they're not just talking about him in the way that people talk about people who have since passed on and they were lucky enough to have a brush with that person so they sort of self aggrandize their importance or his importance to them in their stories. That's not the way any of these people are talking about under the giant. You can hear every person in this movie talk about him with such warmth such affection an that tinge of poignancy because there was a sadness. There was alcoholism. There was a lot of Mental difficulty in terms of being seen to be this freak and and not wanting to be looked at which of course the great and underlying irony of most every performer. I love this far. North Carolina As I recall. And he said He. He loved walking with the animals because they don't look twice at him and he said big people. Little people get gypped was difficult. Where where are you? Because then I'm bill anything for big people everything for grind people from creeper people for people with people so we ought to fit in there and it's not three zero time. Andre had difficulty bearing weight because of his back problems so they hired a giant where they knew he couldn't speak English but they figured at least they have trouble with any of the giant stuff and he actually handled the English language. Fine couldn't lift the feather. He couldn't even hold me. I had to be hooked up to cables. When I'm supposed to fall into his arms. One hundred pounds he couldn't it killed him my favorite moment with him. Andrea and I were on the boat alone with only the script supervisor. She turned on during she said I have. Have you enjoyed this experience? Has It been enjoyable pleasurable for him and he said she said? Tell me how. What have you enjoyed about? He looked at her and he said without skipping a beat nobody looks like it was just one of the one thing. That's really interesting about coming to learn more about the film is when I was a kid I saw the movie. I saw Andre the giant. Sure like you know. He's toiling away as a wrestler. Probably not making a whole lot of money. Of course you would want to join up with the movie. The fact is they almost didn't get him and the reason they don't almost didn't get him is. That is the shooting schedule conflicted with with the wrestling schedule and they were like can we buy him out of that and they were like well. He's GonNa make five million dollars. So do you want to spend five million? That's nine hundred ninety six. Come on is that true? It wasn't wasn't for just on event for like a few events but he was gonNA make five minutes on the farm and North Carolina. I think he was very very very wealthy from wrestling. And I think what is interesting about that is. He didn't do the movie for money I think he did the movie. Because I mean this is just completely out of my head but I think he did the movie because he really you know he says in the Cario Westbrook that he's happy about his life because he's such an interesting life. He is said to be the largest and highest paid and best known wrestler in the entire world. This man stands seven feet. Four inches tall weighs in at about five hundred pounds. Please welcome Andre. The giant bill just felt like it would make his life more interesting. Because it wasn't going to be easy when you watch anytime someone who's watching this on the next Seville watch the scene where they climb up listens and look at his face at the very very end when a nego has declined him now. We know hydraulics got him up there. We know he didn't want any lessening. But you can see that Mandy. Patinkin has to sort of like getting off of his back the pain that registers under the joint space is real head wound. And you know it's amazing. Is he told many? Patinkin that being on a movie set was was one of those times where no he felt like. No one was looking at him. Because you know a movie set right is not unused to strange thing. It's not that he didn't stand out in that way. You can really tell that it meant so much to him to be in that part you said there were we kidding. When you were talking about alternative casting for for Richard Kiel Kareem abdul-jabbar which added course personal college. New Freak no Arnold Schwarzenegger and only did I find recently because he talked about on a interview show. Liam Niessen auditioned for the part lunch physically Leonides robbery. It was like now. Sorry he was only six believed. What is a nineteen year? Old Leeson is going to be. Does that work? Maybe is making that story up. And then I I already mentioned Danny Devito and Richard Dreyfuss for visine the only other one. That's that is really interesting is is Michael Palin was originally thought to the clergyman. Peter Cook ends up playing. Okay I WANNA. That's a good thing to stop down because to me. A lot of this film plays like Monty Python Light. You know that's kind of where it's pitch it. It kind of wants to get their Thank God would Peter. Cook showed up just so just so welcomed that brilliant cameo I think devito would have been a really good visine. He would've actually. He has a deviousness now. But you know wally. Shawn's it's almost kind of like it's not stunt casting doubt while Sean because while Sean does a thing. It's funny that he plays visine in he can do all these things. And it's funnier than it would be with even Danny Devito for some reason because he so effete and such a New Yorker even in the middle of this fantasy story taking place you know hundreds of years ago all I have to do is divine from what I know of. You are you. The sort of man would put the poison into his own goblet or enemies. Now a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet because he would know that only great food reached for what he was given. I'm not a great fool so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you but you must have known. I was not a great fool. He would've counted on it so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me. You made your decision then not remotely. Because cain comes from Australia as everyone knows and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals and criminals are used to having people not trust them as you are not trusted by me so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you truly dizzying intellect. Wait till I get going Australia. And he does disappear for the movie fairly early on so it's not as if he has a role to play. Which probably white veto didn't do it. I don't know I mean I think people weren't so sure this thing was gonna work well and it actually didn't work. I mean this is. This is one of those movies of which there are many where I don't know what they spend on at eight million dollars eighteen million dollars. Sixteen million okay. So that's that's a good chunk of change for nineteen ninety-six but it didn't do well when it came out. It became a hit in the early nineties with with the dawn of like the VHS and DVD sales everything that all of a sudden it kind of became this thing. I'm not sure why I love the book as you wish also spoke very highly of it. One of the things that I think is so nice. The buck is carrying out. West is at the very end of the buck. He says you know what's interesting about what happened with the reception of this film is very similar to what happens in. Miracle Maxes had been with him. Is that the movie wasn't debt. It was mostly dead and it was life with the bench. I thought that was a cute little kid. I need him to him of murder. These twenty years if I started was better. Where's that bellows cramp? He probably owes you money. Well I'll ask you talk. You know so much. Yeah well it just so happens that your friend here is only mostly. That is a big difference between mostly dead and all that please opened his mouth. Yeah mostly dead is slightly alive all dead out with all dead. There's usually only one thing that you can do. What's that got to was closed and look for loose change? Apparently a lot of his funniest stuff couldn't be used because it was a little little crystal. Chris deleon off color. Yeah like he originally compared a true love to a vigorous bowel movement. Four love. You couldn't ask for a more noble cause than that. Saudi true love is the greatest thing in the the world except for Nice. What lettuce and tomato sandwich when the mud is nice and lean and the tomatoes ripe sell parking? I love that had to move. Rob Reiner off off stage because he kept cracking up and he was laughing. I think I'm bill KRISTOL's great. I mean again one of the things that surprised me when I read. This book is how much of that is in the book. The might lettuce tomato sandwich. Obviously yes in the buckets cough drops which doesn't good it actually get continues to get used as a joke but But they talk a lot about all the ad libs but they're having fun storming the castle actually Ad Lib and that turns into research in the field so there are a few fahnestock into castle lake it would take a miracle the by the other thing. Speaking of what isn't ad-libbing. That really surprised me when I first read the book. Is that the Peter. Cook character the clergyman. That's all written a now. Marriage is what wins us. Took off that laissez right with me. Bring a comedy legislator. Let him do it. Changes things it's written as Maui in arrays. Just go back for a second. That the reason why Michael Palin turns down the film is because of the speech impediment and he was getting ready to a fish called Wanda. You didn't want to be like the speech of some in the book. Do you think that the character do you think that the actor she ended up playing the roles feel like the characters in the book to you the most part? Yeah I mean the one thing I love about this book I you know. I love character. Detail character detail is just like my favorite thing. I think about a movie. Like the big Lebowski the giant atro- scene where he licks the bowling ball. That's being doesn't drive film or than any way you can remove it entirely and it wouldn't change anything about the film but it's so fantastic like how could you leave it outright and so one thing. I about this movie. That is even more so in. The book is just all of the character detail. You just get to learn so much about these people and I think that's part of why they're so fun to play. You know you get to know. I was in the single biggest difference between the book and the movie. Is that in the book? You get the full back story of an Eagle Monta. You get the full story of and you you get to learn a little bit about the backstory of illegal Montoya just through his little speech when their sword fight you. You never really care. Physical Baxter in that part is really great. Also there's a whole long so much bigger card in the book and they're already big movie. There's a whole thing because in the book is called the pit of despair. It's of the zoo of deaths. That's got all animals in it and I'm sure for budgetary reasons. They decided to change. There's a whole very long bit where Nego emphatic are. Getting through the zoo of death to get to the man in black parts left entirely. Terry Gilliam made this movie. You would have you would. Have that almost untouchable Andre. The giant poignancy take center stage. You would have that back story. Because Andre the giant kind of feeling like a freak end and how that sort of affected his psyche also his addiction to being known in being famous and William Govan Goldman died a couple of years ago. So you could remake. All you'd be doing is turning him over in His grace. You know what he did okay in his time. He doesn't like I actually think he he probably would. He probably would never say it because the movie has become. This almost untouchable thing. You're not allowed to have a contrary opinion about the princess bride otherwise. You're some sort of outcast. You'll be you'll be shunned by polite society gear to look at it and say sets are pretty bad special effects. Pretty pretty bad though is very little plot like. I'm not sure where what what drives the plot is it could. It's almost unnecessary right. But what you're talking about. That's the interesting stuff like how did this guy adapted own book and leave out. What sounds like the most interesting stuff? No I wanted to make someone with real talented. I actually think it would be worth while to do it. Here's another copy by Ben. You know me you know that I get fixated on minute details that throw me and I can't accept anything after this happens. Hunt synthesizers on the soundtrack Okay eighteen million dollars. You can't spend seven hundred thousand dollars on an orchestra why after synthesizers in a movie that is set in a fairytale throws me out of the movie. Okay so we have to talk about the hunter. So so you know that that that Rob Reiner and had seen local hero. I'm also one of my favorite films and so Mark Knopfler did the the scored a local heroine is great and Rob. Reiner really wanted Mark Knopfler to do the score for the princess bride. I still you know this story. That Coppola agreed to do it but he had one condition. He has loved spinal tap. And that's the reason why he wanted to do the film and so he told her Brenda that he would do the film. If the Mardi de Burgi hatch from spinal tap is in the movie princess and Rob. Reiner was like sure they bring you know. Mark Knopfler in the the big showing it at the premier after the Premier Rob. Reiner comes up to mark knopfler. And he's like. Did you see that that? I hung it behind Fred savage in his room. You know I couldn't get the real hats. Had another hat made you know put in Martin also looked at me and it's like I was that's Great. I'll tell you my Pepsi's okay. The SANIEZ carrying bag so the entire chase thing only to reveal that what is inside. That bag is a bottle of wine to goblets hunk of cheese and some bread and tablecloth. Just seems like why? Would you be traveling with that? Well I mean there's quite a few things like that if you really wanted to get into the gritty. But I wouldn't want to disabuse your your love for the film is say when we were talking about casting. I wanted to say that there's from this film and I don't know if you have this segment. There was an alternative end which thank God. They didn't go with weight which was not in the shot. A scene where Fred savage gets up out of bed goes to the window. We had the little boy after Peter. Falk as he leaves through the book and he starts reliving it and then we have the four heroes on the four white horses. He looks out the window and he sees them and he waves to them so we had these four white horses and we had Andrei we had to. You know he's five hundred pounds so there's no horse that could support him so we had to figure out a way to lift. You know lowering from the ceiling on like cables and that day. The Nouveau Beaujolais came out and he started drinking nine o'clock he drank like I'm not exaggerating. Twenty bottles of new vogue and I'm now at the end of the day. It's eight o'clock at night. I'm walking to the end of Shepperton and studios. It's kind of misty rain. And they open the doors of the stage and there comes from the ceiling. A five hundred pound drunken giant. And he's waving at me and he's going hello balls like this and I'm thinking what do I do for a living? What what is my job. That's what you have to really really. I think Fred savage in peer Faulker miscast peer. Faulk I mean. Of course I have a whole segment Columbus cinematic universe cinematic universe wide margin. So I'm not but pure is like black. Licorice deploy very sparingly. He's doing I think you're right. It's like the actor. Peter Falk as Columbo portraying someone else's grandfather. It's like three levels of something that's going on at the whole time. He's kind of. He's kind of winking commenting on the fact that he's been doing it in the first place upset at first because he was only fifty nine years old at the time and he had to Redo his makeup because when they first did his makeup he felt it made him look too old. Grandpa Pau maybe Komo from read it again to me tomorrow as you wish. I didn't buy him as Fred. Savage's grandfather I would have liked to have seen like Paul Newman. Oh Done Rob Reiner and what about what about car around? We'll be back in New York. My favorite of of production design is a hind. Fred savage is not one but two William the refrigerator Perry posters. And you'RE GONNA. I knew that you were going to single on the refrigerator. Perry posters and. I'm glad you mentioned the Burgi hat because that was the first thing I noticed and I seen the movie I was like I was like. Oh there's one of Rob Reiner's hats is like us S. N. Navy hats. Or what do you think is the greatest? Rob Reiner directed movie. But I I'm not gonNA have mentioned an errand sorkin Vilma on your podcast because I know what kind of reception I will get. But as you say so the holdouts. You're referencing the episode. That came out last week about network in which I went on a used. My podcast Oriel Authority to cut in clip. To make a point that I was making about Aaron Sorkin being a second rate Patty Tchaikovsky and I thought I used a devastatingly perfect sound bite did you did you agree. Yeah I mean of course earns organ. You're either GonNa like bats thing or you're not because that is one of the most ridiculous speeches. Ever the statistical data recall of Jeff Daniels in. That is just so insane. I also love. I love carry always talking about how he's like. Yeah Sure Certified Training. No problem like shows up and like many tickets already. Stripped to the waist ripped sweating has been training for bunce is completely advanced. Expert Sword. Fighter is just like all right. Okay sorry You know this product before people do what how far Mandy was willing to go. Yeah that's Weird Reiner you know. He had a run there in the eighties so he goes spinal tap. Sure thing stand by me. Princess Bride Harry met Sally Misery a few good men. That's pretty good very good so we ain't Goldman. I saw this movie. I read the book I loved it about a year later. I read marathon and marathon. Man is not one of my favorite films but it is still probably one of my favorite books and seen the film. It's not going to do the same thing for you if you read the book. Now it's really one of those books that you have to have read the book. I I was lucky that that happened for me. And part of the reason why is Spoil Marathon Danso spoiler alert spoiler alert for one thousand nine hundred seventy sixes marathon man? When you read the book his brother is character and the spy is a character and you do not know for almost the entire time. They are the same person when you find that out. That's one of those moments. Rereading where like everything. Just stop like. Oh my God that's amazing. Because they do it in the movie. There's a moment where you realize Roy. Scheider is is not who you thought he was. But yes it's different strokes tried like make it work but it's not the same threw out the bulk. You are following these two that you only later come to find out is the same character so so he's already so William Goldman was already got to be I. Then you know. Got Into screenwriting a little bit. So I read the veterans in the screen trade. So fantastic so I happen to know a guy about twenty years ago. Who was very close with him and when he found out that I was really a huge fan. He said you know He's got this new book coming out. It was the sequel to invention screen trade called. Which lie did I tell he said? I've got a advanced copy like do you want to read it. Yeah so I read the events copy and because I was a fifth grade language arts teacher I can't help but find typos and so I found about five typos in the book and I went back to the guy who gave it to me and I said you know just I love did. Who's this laugh is a so you that you are about to correct over his typos. If anyone new bed user out there anyone who's listening to this who grew up with us do haven is laughing right now. Then I guarantee you there is none more user than this store and like look if I were me once to ask the guy should I should. Should I give you my list of Typos for you to give to bill? I did what did he say said. Yes yes I think he would appreciate that. And so the ARLEIGH. Don't you know you know that? That's that's it's there's a reason you have a galley per correct early on. I said hopefully and I said it's very possible that this hasn't even gone through the worst thing in the world for me would be this book comes out and they're in there and I stopped it. I couldn't save one more junior schindler's list moment so I so I gave my copy back to the guy who did you write any view include? Did you include some other substantive notes I said to him? Tell him that I loved the book and I'm only doing this out of concern for you. Know the biggest. Did you include any sort of criticism of like? I was a little unclear in chapter four. I love the second mom. Okay again I would love it if you had the there would be funny and so i. I've done this with onshore through e mails that I sent you but okay go ahead. So what happened you give the lists and emails? Writers was published just saying hey in case they do their pressing visit my mom. These add benefit to the security lists that my next reading. I would show my mom something I worked on for ages and the first thing she likes to be like you that horribly to my daughter. It's terrible okay anyway. Yeah so social time so so I didn't hear back and I was like okay. Well I blew chances with and then came out in the book came out. Who's in stores and I was like. I went on the shelf just to make German. There weren't the mistakes that I had. There's a somewhere along the way whether it was editor got caught and then in the mail directly to me through the versus Scott my address. He mailed me the book signed to me last right here. Is that right here? Four band hang in God bless Wayne Goldman loud and it came with a letter thanking me. Now not wasn't confused or anything but it was just like. Hey thanks. Was there after hanging. There's no there's no punctuation no punctuation. Wow I yeah. I'm surprised prized possession. It's very price book. We you know we are rending. This year we sold our house in renting this. Here's a lot of stuff is in storage. We also actually called through and tried to get rid of a lot of bucks but when I was going through bucks this was obviously a buck. Can I in your will what. Let's see what happens with my children. Let's see they're not gonNA appreciate this we might. I'm just saying really liked the brand. In fact I have audio of me interviewing them immediately afterwards for their immediate. Take so if you want me to sell off Lonzo saying like maybe you could have one of those things. It's like if you know if in the next ten years you should predeceased me. That the William Goldman book can go to me and then I'll be custodian steward of it until such time as ideal children mature enough to handle such a talisman at around cap. I'm taking this Also I should just mention gas in the sentence. It is also one of my favorites. Owns all of us? So I'm really giving also has a strangely out of character soundtrack. Dry is not for me. Goalless draw back complaining John In that case ends up being like genius where the Synthesizers in this movie will drive me. Crazy till the end of my day and wearing golden mentions butch cassidy time this kid several times in the princess bride in the book in during his special moment. Even there's a great little moment to where he's talking about just being attacker working with people who make movies like always wanted to change your stuff when you're the writer. And he some producer on which guessing Sundays kid wants to change the line. Where but says I got vision in the rest of the world wars by phone calls because I vocals were invented. Wave opened goes on a long rampage back out by folk definitely had already existed appointed layers. Revenge that line state of the movie. That's hilarious when I want to say one more thing about this movie. That's the only thing I have in. The book talks about this and again. This is one of these things where I'm sure this exists many many many examples than you can probably the most of your head I can't. It's an interesting film in that. All of the supporting parts are played by very established. People Tony Award winners. People nominated for Oscars like Chris Random. And that kind of thing and the two leads are played by these very young newbies outright at basically been a nothing always and at the time. Terry always didn't even think about like all on his shoulders that the two leads of this film were carrying with all these veterans around him in and he speaks everyone speaking very nicely of them that they handled it. Nick it just reminded me of a story when I did a lot of acting when I was in college at the very first play. I I I got the lead. The director really liked the Ron S. Like that I hadn't been trained to think and the very first meeting the table reading where we I got an arts and our sitting down with our scripts the director said okay. Well the next week we're going to work on blocking and I raised my hand inches again. I said what's blocking and the woman who was playing the lead opposite me. Who is very good friend of mine and his very very sweet and feats when I tell the story and tries to imagine it didn't happen just like slapped head really laughed on my saying what's lacking. I'm the lead male instant natural Dan. You know you're like Andre the giant. I think I switched dreaming. Once I started taking classes. They do read William Goldman's books they squeeze it out of you. Oh I know I know what I wanted to mention. The reason I was so confused reading the actual vote for this bride was because by now or whatever. The last edition of the book was there. Are these intros to the book that William Goldman had done along the way so that now there are like Hugh Intros when you are dated you know ten or fifteen years apart and they chew engage in this type of like Meta thing that layers upon layers of like what is going on. I could not figure out what the Hell I am in a rich. Eisen original nineteen. Yes there is there an intro in that. There's an intro. But the INTRO. Is The the part about the whole thing about the history of this? How my father used to read me. Yeah so in the kindle edition reading there are two subsequent intros before I was like GonNa Start True. I felt like I was Woodward and Bernstein in all the president's men trying to follow the narrative of another great William Goldman's script controversial so though there is a whole school of thought that this happens more often on movies than people want to acknowledge but basically the story on that movie which again people can listen to our all the president's men episode for more indepth information about that amazing movie by one of my etc top three films of all time for sure a Bill. Goldman says he wrote so many versions of the screenplay there were so many other people contributing ideas that of course became one of those movies. Where famously even though he won an academy award for his name is the only name on it. There are plenty of other people who will claim or we'll say that he didn't really write it in the sense of the way we think about writing movie but like I said his name is on the script. He won an academy award for it end of conversation. We talk about William Goldman without mentioning the great story about good will hunting where the Apocryphal story is that He. He's he actually wrote. Good will hunting the faint. Praise back the backhanded praise. He gives to stay. He didn't talk about the Serapis thing agreed because he's he says absolutely read that movie. Those guys were great. They wrote that often south. It's such a wonderful down and besides if I did not feel there wouldn't be that terrible scene with a therapist like no therapist talks like that. Will he thought that he thought that hit the therapist hugging Matt Damon was was such an affront to the concept of therapy that had anyone been to therapy says the guy who thinks bifocals existed in butch cassidy and Sundance Kid. By the way. I'm GONNA send you. He will. Okay what else can we just not your van. Do we miss anything on this. I mean there's so many things in the film scenes. What's your favorite scene in the movie? My favorite scene in the movie I think is the is not a battle of wits. Seen really guessed wrong. You only think I guessed wrong. That's what's so funny. I switch classes. What you're back with. Third how you feel you felt victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia but only slightly less well known is this. Never go in against Celia when Jeff is on the line. It's absurd it's absurd seed but I just I just love it and I loved. The trick is that he actually pattern. Both I just I just have a pet seen. I mean I guess when you first find out that fezzet are both good guys. I think that really was big for me too. So so on. The top of close insanity with the whole sort fight really is an amazing and then immediately following it with Speaking of another one design. The don't don't envy you the headache you'll have when you're wing. But in the meantime rest well hydrogen when he says rest well and dream of large. I would choose fezzet. Seen I think the Andre scenes I just he's a unique and fascinating onscreen presence within any other movies other than this wasn't a few. Maybe he's at movies on TV shows and a bunch of that experience and some of the TV shows but he loved. This surprised. Didn't do much more after this. Maybe one of my favorite bits in the whole movie which also surprised is in the buck and it's in the book written exactly. I just love when he says the table and they walk four white office talked. There are four overs women friendly and already. I figured if we find the Lady Laura so that is in the book the book exactly written like that wish em dashes like you know you captured sort of his his his his avuncular nature that carry always sort of captures really. Well the bunker anytime carry would call him. There's a scene in the book where it's the night before filming is to begin. Carry always having that actor moment which is like raft with self-doubt. I can't do this. Why am I how? How am I going to do this? He Calls Rob Reiner under the guise of like so. What are we doing tomorrow? And then he kind of like says the actor to director. Which is I just WanNa get a break. You know which if you're listening with your producer directors means. Oh my actress having a moment now. I need to talk and down but he'll capture rob Reiner's way of being like Oh hi Carey Ohio Ben Ohio Up. Your voice sounds like you don't Laura Yeah. He's a very good impressionist by the way. If you can find there's there's I remember I couldn't. I couldn't find it on youtube but I remember him being on one of the late. Metra's doing impressions of people are doing impressions of Ajar. The only the only impression that I do. That's really good is Lee. J COBB I do Lee j Cobb from from twelve angry men. It's the best thing I do And I'll do it for you and if you have young viewers and say they won't know what this is. Lee J. Cobb this is Lee j Cobb twelve angry men. Everything every single thing says he's able what do you think? I'm an idiot or something. They all men saw him right there on the stairs. Every every single thing that took place in that courtroom but I mean everything says he's given. What do you think I'm an idiot or something? I saw right now thing that I think is very special about this movie. Is that you really. You can tell what a good time they're having you can't want to talk about it. Talks about that live together. They all came together. They eat all their meals together. They they clearly had a great time. I watched this movie twice in preparation for this podcast and I have to say I thought to myself. This is the first time I am effort watching this movie with a critical eye interesting. Ever watch it with a critical eye before and so that so it is interesting. Sorry to have made you do that. Ben Deformity it's done. It was worth. It was worth the you love me. I do love You ben without qualification. Okay okay you don't really have any latchkey. Tv experiences. He wanted to go on. Some long involve thing about watching channel. I don't know if we need to do that. Here's what I want to say about Latchkey. Be and I. I enjoy listening to watch T. V. Segments that takes me down memory lane. I was very much not a latch key child. I cannot remember a single day coming home from school my entire almost my life up until college. Where one or both of my parents wasn't home. Wow I really really loved television and I really love watching television. I love listening to all of the people that you have on talk about their experiences. One show that has not come up yet. I believe I don't remember. Ever hearing anyone mentioned it is and it's inexplicable that. I as a Jew Jewish boy from Connecticut. Watch the show but the daisy goliaths node never been on a slim really like it won't clue no Goliath you sit up. That is a big part of all of our childhood. Even though we're essentially being brainwashed with Christian ideology without realizing it and it's one of the only impressions I do is. I do goliath impression. Do it all the time at home. I don't know why comes up for some reason. I just find myself often so and so so. I've been surprised that doesn't come up I too. I think it's just because it was ridiculously on TV at the time. There really wasn't anything like it except when the holidays and you had sort of the heat misers in the other sort of holiday specials that same type of plasticine stop motion animation. I guess here's here's my only other impression really. Well I probably have about five or six. This is the only one I can think of. I don't know why it's not. Even one of my hair comes but I do an impression of the character from chariots of fire. Telling his girlfriend that he is going to run ill-effects. Let me see if I can get it on a deep deem Jenny. I believe God made me with practice. He made me go to China but he also made me fast. And when I feel his pleasure Jan Gordon Lesson Aleve that Goldman me for China. Also run a pleasure okay. I can't wait to come down to how. How did you end up doing that? Totally absorbed of reversal of fortune sank. I'll have my own all of the ginger cruel I did. You've mentioned there's certain lines in certain movies. That's I think why I love the princess bride so much so quotable but that line. That movie is is served such gender. Yes because it's it's I'm not. I'm not plugging the matter. Okay but speaking of bad soundtracks chariots of fire would otherwise be an iconic movie for all time. I'm not going to say it's ruined because I love the Vangelis Soundtrack on its own as a thing but tied to that film. It's too dated now the synthesizer shards of fire since it's a great film. But it's got this of its time since soundtrack many mark knopfler did that to me. Okay thank you so much. That was fantastic. Loved you talk.

Rob Reiner William Govan Goldman Fred savage Peter Falk Andre Giant Mandy Patinkin Danny devito Robin Wright writer Peter Andrei North Carolina Jack Nicholson Kim Ben Totally Michael Palin Rick Brown Wally Shawn Peter Cook Wesley Dead
Get Curious with PAW

Casting Actors Cast

23:27 min | 1 year ago

Get Curious with PAW

"So sometimes actors will ask me if I have any advice to give to actors and of course I have lots of advice to give to actors but lately I have been saying the following. You need to get curious with Pau and they look at me. Really funny like what? I'm going to explain what that means. Get curious with awe in just a moment on this episode of Casting Actors Cass. Welcome to casting actors cast. It's the podcast for actors in the business of show with casting director. Jeffrey Dries van. Visit us at casting. Actors CAST DOT COM for more information. Please remember to subscribe and like Casting Actors Kansas. Here's your house. Jeffrey Dries Mac. Hell come to this episode of Casting Actors Gas. I'm casting director Jeffrey. Dry Spot with the mccorkell group in New York. How are you? I hope you having a really good day. Today you may have noticed that I said the mccorkell group in New York. We're GONNA BE CHANGING Our Name. It's going to go from mccorkell casting to the mccorkell group. It turns out that the staff that we have Rebecca and Nathan and Joe and Pat and myself. We just seem to have this really amazing chemistry and we pat and I really thought about this a lot and we really love what's happening right now with our organization with our team and so we thought it'd be really fun in the fall will be changing our name to the mccorkell group so it's just kind of a fun cool new thing so. I just wanted to share that with you but welcome to casting actors cast. This is the podcast for actors where we give tips and advice talk about all things acting career and acting and the business of show so. I'm glad that you're joining us today. And this is that moment of the podcast where I would like to say. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you tuning into day. The numbers and the feedback have been really remarkable. And I couldn't be more grateful to have you joining this amazing podcast community and I encourage you to check out the website casting actors cast dot com. That's casting actors casts all one word DOT COM. Also you get a free book. If you go to the website you can fill out the dive into the talent pool form. And what will open up as another menu that allows you to download this one hundred page absolutely free book called? Conversation pieces out of the studio voiceover workshop for professional actors. This is a book that I wrote about doing voiceover work and I'm just giving it away. Even though it's an some colleges and some university training programs I thought it would just be just something that I'd love for you to have if you're interested in doing voiceover work. Also I have a little house cleaning to. Do I know in the past couple? Avec EPISODES OF CASTING ACTRESS CAST. I love mentioning and talking about actors connection and this is a wonderful organization. I've been doing a teaching work with actors connection for many many years now and I just love this organization and it turns out that for the past couple episodes. I've been talking about location in Chicago. Turns out I am wrong. I always thought that there was this location in Chicago and there is not there has been talk about opening an actress connection or doing some programming work in Chicago. But my mistake and I want to apologize. That was like not a really great thing to doc about but there are locations in Atlanta in Los Angeles and New York. And I just WANNA give a shout out to my friends at actress connection. It's just been a wonderful organization. Now here's an check it out please. Because it's actors connection Dot Com. But what you're gonNA find our people in the industry. These are people who are working in the business of providing seminars and classes and all kinds of workshops and all kinds of neat things going on. And we're talking about casting. Directors and agents and managers and directors and industry professionals who are providing really excellent excellent classes and information. They've been doing it for a while now and it's just such a wonderful group so I wanted to give that shout out to to everybody in again apologize but you know I'm an isolation so at least give me a little break please. So anyway that's my shoutout to actors connection and hope you're all doing really really well there so let's talk about today's subject a little weird. I know get curious with PA. The reason I wanted to come up with this is that I've been racking my brains over the past week to figure out what would be a really interesting subject to talk about today. And sometimes you know sometimes. It comes really easily to me that I just go. Oh my gosh. This is something I've gotTa talk about on the podcast and then there are other times like this week. Where so many different things are going on in my life personally and professionally. That feels like popcorn in the microwave. Where this stuff is going on. And I'm having a really hard time coming up with something. That's I hope that you would find really helpful and really useful and so I spent some time talking about this with pat and it just kind of hit me that I didn't want and maybe I'm making a mistake here. I don't know you tell me but I really wanted to not talk about things that you can do during corona virus. I've done like three or four episodes about that. Not that there's anything wrong with that and and you know if you're an isolation and you're not reaching out and you're not doing some of the things that you could be doing now I I'm concerned and I would love for you to to get up out of your chair or your couch and take a walk and connect with some of your fellow actors. That's all advice and that's the kind of thing I've been talking about but I really wanted to. Just give some good solid foundational things for you to think about now regardless of whether we're in corona virus or not so it's not geared for us in isolation. This is something that I a concept that I think would be useful to you any time even when things get back to some state of normalcy. I think you're gonNA find some of these ideas useful and the theme that I discussed with Pat finally came to light that I think the secret to having a successful career as an actor is to remain curious. And if you're not curious it's really time for you to get curious. And when I say with Pau I don't meet Paul like GRANDPA and I don't mean a paw like a cat's paw no I mean the acronym p a w performing actors at. What do you think? The W is for riders performing actors and Writers and the whole theme of today's episode is about serious. I think sometimes we find ourselves in a locked kind of scenario our environment is the same our thought processes many times are the same. We don't necessarily feel like thinking outside of the box. But if you get curious. I think you're gonNA find amazing things opening up a lot of wonderful things will be revealed to you as you start asking yourself questions that demand answers so when I say get curious with Paul I mean get curious with performances and I'll explain that in a second get curious with actors and I'll explain that in a second and get curious with writers. I will definitely explain that well so getting curious as something that I think is challenging right now but I think it's for me. I know it's always challenging. I always want to remain curious to things I always want to remain teachable but certain times of my life. I kind of lose perspective of that. I lose the idea that there are new things to be discovered. There are new things to check out their brand new things to find out because if we find out about things outside of US outside our circle we're going to be finding out a lot of really great things about ourselves and I think that's the cornerstone of the reason about getting curious. So let's go down the list of things I've Made Lewd POB pee. So the acronym being pop he w performance would have told me about performance. Is I'm GonNa make a few suggestions to you and I really encourage you to take a look. Maybe jot these down if you can and think about what if you check these out already then by all means you don't need to do it but the idea being the more curious you are the more your world will open up now if you haven't checked out the actors fund the Youtube Channel Actors Fund Youtube Channel. It's an amazing youtube. Now you're gonNA find all kinds of really interesting performances. There are people making contributions left and right to the actors fund and they're donating their performance energy and their time and their skill and their talent to putting together really interesting programming from a reading of movies and films and plays Just all kinds of wonderful things going on and you can really get a comprehensive view of this if you go to that you to channel called the actors the Actors Fund Youtube Channel. Please check that out if you haven't already done so the second on my list theater mania theater mania so Google Theater Mania or go to theater mania dot com and you're gonNA find all kinds of really great information about what's going on behind the scenes industry stuff. It's a lot like backstage dot com. It's a lot like playbill. Dot Com but theater mania really has dedicated itself to providing a lot of really cool current information. And that's a great resource but in addition to that you sort of my hope is that you get an idea about the community and you're gonNA feel a part of that community and I think that that's really really valuable for us. Being part of a community and not isolated being part of a community really does infuse your own soul for lack of a better way to say it with a lot of goodwill good feelings and it's also taps into that creative side for sure also if you haven't checked out. I M D be Internet movie database. Imdb that calm. This is a really great resource for lots of movies television projects. If you WANNA know who cast whatever project if you see a movie that you like you WanNa find out who cast it. This is a great way that you get those answers. You'll find all kinds of information about the actor the producers the writers. It's really a gold mine for doing that kind of research and I don't want to say research like it's it. It sounds like you know you're in college or you're you're still in school or something but remaining curious and asking those questions and then being able to have a resource to answer those questions really efficiently. Boy that is really satisfying. I am DB. Now there's a pro version that you have to pay for but to start off with the IMDB the the non-paid version and you're gonNA find a lot of really good useful information for sure the last one on my performance of the paw series that we're doing today is taking a look at the American Film Institute the American Film Institute. Afi they have done an amazing job. Over the years of recording Broadway productions Broadway shows full productions that have an archive at the American Film Institute where you can see the original. Hello Dolly for example on Broadway. I believe and I could be wrong about this but I believe. Find out what that schedule is. Check out some Broadway shows really invest some time and get curious about how they were able to accomplish this amazing feat of recording all of these Broadway shows and then if you can have access to get into watching some of those shows by all means. It's a treasure trove of history and really amazing performances. That's the American Film Institute so that sort of wraps up the p the performance side of things. The next is what we're going to talk about actors. I find it really fascinating and I find it kind of just surprises me all the time when I bring up an actor's name and I'm teaching a class for example in young people in the class. They don't know who I'm talking about. It's like wow. There's a whole world of actors prior to you. That have really you know blazed. The trail and being curious about some performances and some actors in those performances is really useful research for you. The question that I think would be great for you to ask as what made some of these famous people famous. No I'm talking not talking about the famous people now necessarily because you got your barrel streep in your Robert Deniro's and you know that's that's great and that's all there but there are some performances and there are some actors who in their time were very very famous known for their acting work. And I'm going to throw out a few names and I'm GonNa tell you how you can do some of the research for this in addition to IMDB. By the way. So I would love if you don't know the name Red Skeleton Red Skeleton if you don't know who red skeleton is I implore you to please do a little research find out who this guy was he an actor clown and he did some amazing film work and best known for his. Cbs television variety. Show but I just would love for you to kind of do some research and figure out who red Skelton was and then study his work because I think that there's some masterful performing with him. A comedian really. It really funny actor comic actor and like I said a clown and really did a lot with pantomime and just really an amazing amazing performer. And Personal Note. I had the opportunity of meeting Red Skelton when I was under contract at Radio City Music Hall and just standing in the elevator with like this genius performer and him just smiling and just nodding and kind of greeting. And it's just something I'll never forget and so I want you to check that out and you'll see magical things can be discovered if you look into Red Skelton another actress that I think is worthwhile taking a look at greer Garson greer Garson. Now you might not know she is. You might not be that into the films of the forties fifties and early sixties. But if you check out the careers of some of these leading ladies I would love for you to check out greer Garson a beautiful amazing talented actress on those same lines a little bit earlier in our film. History I Edward Everett Horton. That's his name. Edward Everett Horton an amazing comic actor. I think he was rather young when he started but he was one of those actors that was perennially more old than he actually was. I think he always kind of looked and played older guys but really funny Amazing and You'll see him so many different times in so many different films. It's just remarkable. So check out. Edward Everett Horton also an actress by the name of Joan Fontaine. I think it'd be really fun for you to check out. Find out the movies of Joan Fontaine. So here's how you do that all you need to go to. Imdb DB type in those names. Edward Everett Horton Joan Fontaine greer Garson and red skeleton. Take a look at some of their work. Then what you want to go is to go to Turner Classic Movies if you've got it on. Cable T. C. M. I'm sure they must have an online presence as well or whatever your method of getting Turner. Classic Movies I I'm sure there's there's an online way of doing it. I'm sure that it's out there. But t C. M. has all of these old movies and you'll find out when the movies of these actors are going to be showing and you can really just sit back and check out the performances so turner classic movies is a really wonderful way of seeing some of these classic actors early on in the acting journals of filmmaking and you'll you'll not be disappointed. It'll be really fun. I think you'll find it a totally enriching experience for shore. Then finally. That's so that's our actors. Now we're going to go onto writers. Pau Performance actors now riders. The thing about writers is. I don't think actors are curious enough about the writers. They're auditioning for. I don't think actors are as curious as they could be about the bodies of work that many many playwrights have given us and I'm also including in that of course. Television writers film writers screenwriters. I I think that there is really something to be said about finding a movie or film television show or a play that you really like and then making it a habit to really figure out what this person wrote and in fact. I love the idea of reading all that writers work. Really just indulge yourself with some of these writers reading everything that they wrote figure out what they did and the style of writing but it's also the period that they are living in or lived in. I think that there's just so much really wealth of knowledge and information. If you're curious about writer so I'm just going to throw a few writers out there and not going to give you a lot about them. I just would like you to kind of do the research if you haven't spent any time on some of the classics there's one classic writer that I think you know the name but maybe you haven't read all of their work and I'm encouraging you to do so because it's just so rich and so full of wonderful material that I would love for you to Get into I think it'd be really valuable that is Samuel Beckett talks about Samuel Beckett. Everyone may be knows a play. But there's a whole body of work that would really be useful for you. I think and really helpful. If you're curious about the work of Samuel Beckett so do that now that's going back in the past right. That's an older writer. Let's talk about somebody more contemporary. That's a with us now and still writing prolifically to research reback. If you don't know her work yet please check it out again. There's all kinds of just google the name Teresa Reebok. And you're going to see all kinds of work now. Teresa is a very very prolific writer. She's written just amazing material. She's writing wonderful plays and she's an awesome human being. I know that she was in our office for a period of time and Both pat and Theresa got along really really well and just a delightful human being It just kind of one of those great people right. Somebody who you really hope is really nice and they turn out to be that. That's Theresa Rebecca. I can't recommend her highly enough in terms of reading her material. Also Sarah Rule Sarah rule is just do such amazing writing and writing such amazing pieces so I encourage you to check out Sarah. Rules work as well She's just one of those kind of up and coming playwrights that I think everyone should be kind of Tuned in on and so those are my suggestions so if you can read the entire authors work if you do that research your world will open up because you're going to see all kinds of different styles all kinds of different characters and for you the actor you're gonNa feel so much more confident about the kind of material that's being written now because you've done the research on what's going on from way back when to recently to today. I hope that's been helpful for you. So remember to get curious with P. A. W. remaining curious remaining teachable is like the best gift you can give yourself. I know I feel that way myself can simply remain teachable. And not know at all and really stay curious about those things in this business boy. That's what keeps my energy going. That's what keeps me motivated. And that's what keeps me really really excited about the future. I hope that this has been helpful to you. Thanks so much for tuning into casting actors. Gassed I'm casting director. Jeffrey dries casting actors. Cast if made possible with your support just by listening. Please like share and subscribe wherever you get your podcast. I'm Caitlin Clarke.

IMDB mccorkell group Edward Everett Horton writer director pat American Film Institute New York Theresa Rebecca red Skelton Pau Chicago Google Samuel Beckett Teresa Reebok Jeffrey Dries van Jeffrey Dries Mac Edward Everett Horton Joan Fon Joan Fontaine Pat
40 - Mercedes Murphy, Director/Writer

Page To Stage

1:00:41 hr | 11 months ago

40 - Mercedes Murphy, Director/Writer

"You're listening to the broadway podcast network as the curtain rises. Broadway's i ever behind the curtain soap opera with a star studded cast including alex brightman ashley. Park arianna dubose. James monroe aigle heart. Michael yuri sarah styles. Andrew feldman lilius. White leslie margarita. George salazar rabin karen lou body milligan and so many more with guest appearances from lynn. Nottage alex lattimore allen. Coming david torrens. James jordan roth gordon. She's people just just go. Listen already visit. Vpn dot fm slash as the curtain rises. That's bt and dot fm slash as the curtain rises or. Find it everywhere. You listen to podcasts. Anti ringling bill. This podcast is sponsored by next. Does your website help customers by or bounce. If they can't find the answers they need on your site. They'll bounce to a search engine you know starts with a g. were they'll get bombarded with ads not answers. Yuckiest answers can help by adding a powerful search engine to your site so customers get official answers to every question not a bunch of annoying ads. Try next answers for free. Visit dot com. That's why x t dot com. Hey everyone welcome to page to stage a conversation with theater. Makers we're your hosts. That's brian nats. Mary join us as we focus the spotlight back on the theater maker to uncover their process. We speak with folks in the industry. That often aren't heard from such a stage. Managers producers crew members marketing professionals. Everything in between we hope you enjoy this episode. Everybody elaine welter off. And i'm hosting a new podcast called built to last by american express where we will dive deep into stories history and continued legacy of small businesses. That shape american culture are debut season will focus on black owned small businesses. That need our support now more than ever in each episode. We feature the story of a black business trailblazer that has inspired a modern black owned business. First step is key. Cole of atlanta's food truck turned restaurant celebrity. Vegan we'll also chat with lethem wamba the cutting edge designer behind the haniffah three d digital fashion show. Plus we'll check in with each array are modern day renaissance woman. We hope that it encourages all of our listeners to support these businesses as well as the black owned businesses in your own communities tune in for these amazing stories and others on spotify apple youtube. or wherever. You get your favorite podcasts support. For this podcast comes from we work. Today takes new ways of working. It takes new measures towards prioritizing health and safety flexible terms to adapt and scale with change. Convenience spaces designed for focus and collaboration. It takes the innovation of we work to take your business where you it to go. We work that's how tomorrow works visit. We work dot com slash tomorrow support for this. Podcast comes from state farm here with good news and even better news. The good news state farm has new lower car insurance rates. The even better news that means you can now get the service and convenience of a local state farm agent at surprisingly great rates state. Farm can help you save more cash and get the good neighbor service. You deserve just talked to your local state farm agent or visit state farm dot com to find out how much you can save on your car insurance when you want the real deal like a good neighbor state farm. Is there hi. I'm mercedes murphy. And i am a theater director I do mostly device theater. So i ended up also being a little bit of a writer and a little bit of a designer and a little bit of producer and a little bit of my mama so i love it well. I'm so excited to have you as i said you just a couple of minutes before. We started recording You're my movement professor in college. Montclair state university freshman year. And i have to say just to get going. When i was in the montclair state program for acting it was very movement There was a lot of movement components to the program and whenever people would ask me. What are you doing in school. And i would say movements as one of the things that i was doing in school. They would always say we'll there were so confused. I couldn't really explain what it is. We did so. I'm wondering if you have some sort of Some sort of way to encapsulate. What movement in the theater for the actor looks like in your brain. Yeah definitely I feel like a lot of what guides me is sort of that sort of abyss between who we are and who we want to be and a lot of that sort of escapes words and so therefore we're left with movement you know or song And so my trading was heavily focused on the viewpoints and grochowski and so the viewpoints is a way to sort of work on stage composition. It's you know. originally. I studied with mary. Overly who had A sort of orientation more towards dance. And then i worked with and bogart. Who is more theater based Both heavily rooted in movement being sort of the engine and the driver for the creation of work. You know I think the thing that separates me. And maybe we can talk about later is actually the amount of sort of like research and source work. I do like pair that with that Movement really you know anyone who's taken my class. We always start the same way. I feel like movement is such a nice sort of way to get a really awful painful routine that you do again and again so you can show up one day and not want to be there. I'm so happy you brought that up. Can you explain to the listeners. What that routine is yeah okay. So it's been called by My loving students sister of pain and it is a combination it starts almost like a yoga slash pilates movement sort of sequence but my focus from the beginning. We start with breath. So it's sort of a frenetic guided meditation. If that makes sense the most important thing is i you stand in a circle which is why it's called the circle of pain and you find a partner across the Circle from you and you make direct. I can't take with them and start breathing with them. And that is the most essential part of it. Because as soon as you have that partner that connection becomes very real and i feel like there's lots of times when there's movement training that it is you know that might be what separates us from say a ballet class or just classroom. Modern class is it really is about trying to connect with another actor or creator in the space in that moment. So that's the way the circle starts in it progresses through the different sort of sun salutes. And then it's very quickly sort of either evolves or devolves depending on how it's going into more grochowski work which is plastiques and really sort of rigorous physical exertion try to actually physically exhaust to the actors to the point where they they have nothing less to accept their experience of that sort of exhaustion. You know that's where i always say. That exhaustion is the edge of discovery. and it sounds crazy and it sounds like i'm militant and a bully but it actually like everyone gets to draw their online of where that exhaustion is and sometimes physical. Sometimes it's emotional and sometimes you never find it but either way it sort of gives you a way to take your focus off yourself and start to already get the wheels going sort of creatively. Just hearing you talk about. That is like making me like a- having gone through. That makes me like just salivate to do that again. Especially after the past couple months of coronavirus you know. So i mean you don't sound militant. It's really something that i think. You can really become addicted to doing that. Sort of practice. I think it's actually feel that everyone would benefit from it because the just the idea of getting the attention off yourself and trying to be present is to sort of muscles that have not really been used that much in our current society I think they're essential for a creative process and for a really thoughtful exchange. Where hopefully you ask at least one hard question that maybe you don't find an answer to but at least you tried you know and i do feel like bringing your whole body to that. Means you're bringing your heart your mind and your soul where sometimes you can sit around a table and breakdown. Like i've been thinking about three sisters stop during the pandemic i think to moscow is like to the election. But like there's a part where it really is. You could sit there and talk about three sisters or you could get up. Do the circle and then get on a grid which we haven't really talked about yet. Maybe i'll explain that in a second and you have a totally different connection to the work to the people in the room and that's when it becomes theater because it could only happen that with those people in that room in that circle so you talked about at first you when you first get started. You're making the connection with One person across the circle for you are you keeping that connection with that one person or you then expanding it to incorporate everybody or anybody a great question. I know brian could probably chime in. I hope and when it's you know is i e you get your focus off yourself. It goes onto the other person and then all of a sudden it's strange you sort of like a tree growing roots all of a sudden the people on either side of you become important and become your partners to start a stay focused on the person across from you all of a sudden you're starting to realize there's some fuck quad who's behind everyone else who's to slow. There's someone else who's like incredible and the whole time it's really. It's not like this sort of you know crazy sort of shafts of sunlight and sort of this harps and like you know acquire if ause it's it really is in the room hating someone who's too loud and breathes weird like like loving someone they'll never know how much you love them and just these little moments like really being in the room. I think sometimes people think of being present as being like good like no. You can have all the other emotions so totally. Your focus goes everywhere it goes. You know i sort of talk about the idea of having the focused like right in front of you. And then you can have the right to your partner behind your partner extending outside the room extending to the edge of the riverfront extending into manhattan extending past manhattan into brooklyn and the idea of like that focus keeps on sort of irish thing in and out and that is what really great theater is like no theater. The idea that wall moment you can be so focused on some various central sort of main event and then all of a sudden a new audience member enters and your focus can change to somehow trying to intend with that audience member that they're going to feel the beginning energy of the play while you keep the plot moving forward know so you sort of have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time and physical exhaustion. I think helps that. I'm trying to remember as you were explaining the beginning of this. I was brought back to an. I was assistant directing production at montclair. And i feel like the the movement i think she was the choreographer. Even that was a play because it was pride and prejudice. I think she was heather. I don't remember last name. But i'm sure she was. Are you shaking your head. Yes brian as it was. Because i remember i walked into her one day not knowing what was happening and it was i was like oh oh yeah. They were doing all sorts of interesting shit with that show. They were late embodying chairs and some interesting things going on there. That's right how. How did you get into a house movement. I introduced to you an. You're career like how were you able to kind of build that into our complete midwestern naievety to be completely honest. I'm from missouri. And i got into nyu and i wanted to go to experimental theater wing because it sounded that s and then i went there and it was really heavily dance focused. I completely the wrong match for me. In terms of studios which was a blessing and i think I worked with mary. Overly and bogart Window beavers steve zahn. You stayed even though you yeah. It wasn't a match. You actually like kept the program. Yeah oh that's awesome. Only it really because what happened is through that movement you have such a physical experience you get a really clear understanding of your artistic voice you know i think people think and artistic voices something way. More lyrical and poetic. You know where it really is like i it also mimics meyer to stick voice. I think's mimics my artistic process. Where like the beginning of any process. I think i know it. All and i am all hustle and bustle and entitled and then all of a sudden as soon as reality hits like the first rehearsal. I'm panicked in terrified. And hate everything. And i go through this period of hate for a couple of weeks. No one knows. I'm hating it. Because i have the mid western thing down but there's a part where without that physical part of the process. I don't feel. I would be able to attack the work the same way you know like i have to wear myself out. And where my sort of all the self criticism all the sort of Prickly around omega person came late they don't like this show or that person thinks this should be cast for that or this person's in the room and they gave this amount of money all those dumb little competing voices in your head. The only way. I can quite them is through wearing myself out so i can laser focus in on what it really feels like to be in the room with these people talking about this event you know where your your world of or your interest in directing in your interest in. Movement kinda collide. Do you remember a specific point in your career. Where your training where you said you know. This is going to be that sort of that. I use in my process. I think it has always been a part of me. Otherwise i i for me just gets two. Crashes and the problem is. I'm probably one at the most sentimental and sort of like mama bear type people so when it becomes precious it becomes so annoying and shitty and like bad made for tv after school. Special crap you know. There's nothing like edgy. You're not inviting audience in any way and it's super self-indulgent you're just putting yourself on the back even if you make a good theatrical choice you know so there's a part for me i think the physicality that has become like like the only way i can enter into anything is because i want to be physically present because emotionally. I'm sort of pin bowling around. You know and that's a combination of being a good director sort of really tries to figure out every character's arc and then you sort of figure out which which rq on a dial up on the dials which you wanna dial down and you sort of think of yourself more like a sound mixer but in order to do that really well i think you have to have a stillness. A quiet and i just haven't found it any other way except to physically exhaust. And also i feel like i don't know how to not do ensemble work. I'm one of eight originally was born into an ensemble. And so there's a part where i i need the group and so a way to get going with the group is the circle you know and so we'll do. It said this earlier but like the grid work which is a combination of like mary released. Viewpoints amp bogart's viewpoints. Now my own sort of evolution. It's i've come to what i call my version of good work is. We're after we do the circle like physically drenched. I'm like my hot pink. Irish skinned self and the actors are wanting quite the directors chasing them around the room. We start to just get on a grid and only have one option which is right angled turns and just the beauty of the economy of choice of just having to turn and then actually interact and exchange with other people in the room. You start to realize they're probably. I've said this all the time in all my classes. There's really only one story aids be elusive be it gets be back loses be forever so all of a sudden you realize what you're there for is actually what's going on in your life you know like we could read any play right now and and be like oh my god done any other time except this fucked up time. We're living in. I mean the fact that i feel like somehow three sisters is like has to be done right now. I've been stuck in this house forever. You know like moscow has been manhattan. Moscow has been away for my children. Moscow has been into a theater. Moscow has been in a circle like this idea of nostalgia and homesickness becomes amazing and homesickness takes on a whole different definition. And like the only way i think about entering into that is walking around only making right angles and being forced to confront that feeling i have brought to rehearsal again and again and find that one. Little sanctuary of turn into someone else and be like. Oh my god it could lean into that person. Or oh my god i could slap that person you know and then you have your like four events. A met be a loss. Be a copy back a loses be forever bit. It all happens just on the grid with right angles. Only after you're so exhausted you're only left with your dirty stinking self and other people in the room after you've been at home for seven months. He's cat out there so sick. All these door charges ready to head coach. so i mean there's so much vivid storytelling so even though this is just an you know an audio medium that we're we're talking in right now. There's so much Visuals that i hope that our listeners are able to grab from what you were just saying as i've been able to do throughout that so i'm wondering how you approach a script director and utilize your movement background so the movement is like my sort of life jacket my like buoy my lighthouse. Because i do the exact opposite of movement for like weeks to months before show starts. I find every translation any adaptation. I normally do greek or sometimes like a little bit of no. I like old dead guys. You'll beckett samuel beckett like if they're alive i don't wanna be with them because then it's their work you know and i'm not i don't consider myself a writer but maybe like you know a divisor and so i will find every possible book ever written on it if there is a book about how a ghost enters a stay like onstage and a european tragedy. I am on that white on rice to the point where it's annoying to be like. Oh oh the persians that happened during the our community period. That's amazing yes. So many incredible like no one in the theater cares especially because i don't really do sort of time period type work. I really sort of contextualize. It and either very specific event in history or an event. I wish happened like a revisionist history That i'll fall down the rabbit hole of learning about that event history I feel like this is where it becomes very political for me. But i think about like where were the black people where were the. Lgbtq ex people like where all we're all my people and how do they fit into the show. And then sometimes i find it and it's really obvious and then sometimes i just sit and cross my fingers during the audition process that like that dream date comes into the room and everyone is like what the fuck are you thinking. Even having that person read like not the right age not the right gendered them like no. This person knows winning. This person knows fighting. This person knows losing whatever it is that somehow i feel like that core connection is there. I'll do that. But otherwise i'm pickling myself i like fall down anytime i lose my mojo i i go into youtube and i like i call it like the spank file. I literally will just watch amazing choreography. Like pena bash. You know i will. I will find what ever beautiful like movement like for a long time during the persians because we are really big cast. I was really into In japan they have these walking competitions like speed walking like and they walk in different formations. And it's about like three hundred people in squad walking making formations. It's like at the sort of like a marching band but it's the precision like all of a sudden they make a diagonal line out of nowhere and it is my heart leaps. Visually a visually amazing. And it's you know or like it's the same as the rockets sucker for like a bunch of people making a line But i will do that. And then i feel like i've known like i know the whole show. I break it down sort of act by act scene by scene i ask if there are any scenes i can get rid of any acts i can get rid of And normally i fallen in love with all that point. Some very precious and i'm afraid to what i call. Kill the baby. So i keep it all and then i go through beat by beat by beat for each character and i do all the paperwork of like what's objective. What have you had to say this sort of event for them one sentence what was it. What is the arc like the emotional arc from timid flirting to savage sodomy. Like whatever you know whatever like there's an emotional arc then. I try to think of ford motion which i think is the best one. It's sort of like the more he looks at me the more i wanna kiss him. So there's sort of this you know. Direct correlation of. Like if if this character does something it'll affect me this this way Trying to think of other paper do loads of paperwork. I have a big black sketchbook that i write all these different things on there all these weird bubbles and it looks sorta like a strange like ten goodson ski-type uni bomber thing. That makes no sense. My writing is awful. And then i take it like shivering. Two auditions hoping all my boyfriends and girlfriends will show up like they all wanna play and they all don't don't scare them and then we start like talking to like designers and stuff and again. I like completely overwhelmed and nervous thinking like shit. They're gonna think this is a wall crazy idea and then we start rehearsal and for the first two days. I pretend to be normal and have table talk and then i ask everyone to dress for movement and the shit hits the fan. There's always one actor who hates me so when you get in the room with the actors and you start to go through and do all the table work. Do the beats that you wrote down months or weeks. Prior do they change it all gets thrown out within the first thirty minutes of it comes back at the end but honestly like i find it. The most valuable thing is to make an entire playbook and then never use it and then sit in the room and have someone else pick their beats and then 'cause it always ends up like after you've been physically exhausted or you've done because we do things two hundred three hundred four hundred times and then we get really granular like okay. So now have you could sit for it. Okay if you could sit forward with both your feet on the floor but when you sit for could you put your head in your hands. And i did it. I'm like okay now. What's your version of that or sometimes someone else. You know what. I was thinking. What if i was on the floor. It let's do that. How do we get you to the floor and bit by bit by bit we will do a scene and so whatever i imagined to the point where i have little stick figure drawings in the bubble with really shitty tables and really weird sort of like you know like platforms and whatever. The set is and they. It just looks weird like these little stick figures like none of it really happens that way you know. And that's the. That's my favorite thing about theaters. Every time you go someone else comes. And it's like they brought a surprise you know and so you have all these ideas and sometimes they work and you can throw them to be like okay. I had an idea. Let's try this and it'll work but otherwise someone else might come and have a completely n. could take you in a completely wrong direction. And i am one of those people that i'm happy to do that. I think it pisses people off. Sometimes but i feel like it's like in i call it like in the soup like you don't taste all the onions but they're there instead like sort of your building in layers some of the work only the only the castle know about you know like so the beats could change a lot and how far how far in the quote unquote wrong direction. Do you go until you're like okay. This is clearly not working like. Are you able to identify immediately that it's not working. No sometimes i know this is an exercise and being a good momma you know. And that's why they have union breaks. You know because everyone starts to feel it but there's something about letting everyone else feel it too because the same way you feel that's not working you can feel when it does work you know. There's like two sides to that feeling or even if you know a lot of times even like just a normal not devised play it with with the script and everything. You're going to see as an actor. You're gonna come up with a lot of your back story. That may never actually get put on stage. You know so. It's like you're feeling that sort of any you'd call it a container. You feeling your container with all this stuff so that it's there and you can have that full performance yeah. I think that that's the thing that The more work you do. You're not doing the work for it to show up on stage. You know you're not going to be able to point to a moment. Like oh you know what i think that. She's read all of the poetics. I think she. I think she. She crushes the poetics. She knows all about unity of time. Baby no it's about like it's dedication like not like i'm a hard work. It's i m dedicating myself and that's where all the beauty and the surprises. Everyone will be like. Where did you guys find that one moment. Where like how could we not. We looked under every rock in the forest. How could we not. And that's what like so brian earlier. Just said like the container thing so like a lot of times like the world sorta talk about like the substance and the cover you know and you can think of that content like that cover being like a container you know and i think that's where we start to find really exciting performances is where we realized we don't have to really share anything with audience like every audience. We've all had all the like we've had have in high school honestly like we've been betrayed we've had like had like our hearts open like cracked wide open. We've been disappointed. We've you know had like some wins like everything is already there. So you don't have to really be very illustrative a heavy handed because the text is there and the people around the room. So i really like i creep out actors. Sometimes because they're like well it says you're supposed to cry here first of all you should have cut all those stage directions the first day of rehearsal and also that doesn't that's not how it works like like like that's for the audience to decide like their experience is always going to trump that and if you have a strong enough container you can really hold it back until the right moment you know and so. That's another reason. Why the physicality so important. Because to actually like i mean. Everyone has had a really awful stressful event in their life where they felt so fatigued that they couldn't hold it together and they know the exact moment they broke. You know. someone's like how are you doing. And it was the wrong person with the right question at the wrong time and you just lose it. 'cause physically you can't sustain that level of keeping it together you know that most of theater should be about keeping it together to honor those moments you know. That's why i love the idea of containers. And i love the idea of like developing physical stamina because like it should feel like real life and have you think about the stakes of any really good show. That's fucked up that you can't tell anyone that you killed your mother. You know whatever it is. That is an exhausting secret. So it like physically. You have to be able to mimic that. Because i think it's much safer than trying to do that emotionally. Yeah people get really reckless and sort of will i like i call it like emotional masturbation while they will imagine something and do you like what ifs like an it. It can work especially for most good actress because they're very empathetic but that's dangerous. That's not the way we should like like trying to like recreate that several times a week or however long the ryan. You're gonna burn it out. It's like it's gonna be like fuck it. She said i feel better. Another one can ask you about your relationship with dramaturge. I'm asking why fascinated in general with the research that any any of us do to put together the a piece of art. But i what you've described as your process. I feel like it ties very closely to what traditionally not wanna use that word but what a dramaturge would be doing some curious as to how you if you work with the dramaturge and how that relationship works. Yes totally. I rely heavily to different at the beginning of the end so at the beginning all the research you know i i don't find any normally i always find the weirdest thing i you know. We're like there are a lot of directors we'll have like a much more sort of Traditional approach where they'll go to lincoln center watch the tape see what other performances have been like sort of you know just studying sort of other versions of the show. I sort of find one thing that i love about a show and sort of go in that direction and then the whole time. Try to break up with the idea and so drama. Help a lot because sometimes They're able to help me articulate something that i didn't know it was on to you know i sort of try to always enter into things. Being very naive i started. Call it like a learning things like not you know just sort of a blank slate and so there are times where a drama can gently sort of. Remind me though. This is actually pretty normal. This is just called catharsis And also there are times. When i i want to fall down the rabbit hole of like studying. Some sort of really weird idiosyncratic sort of theatrical convention and i will need a dramaturge. Help me with the work of just sort of the historical context. I want to put it in and sort of finding out any because that. That's where you find a little gyms and those special moments. Where other i always want to assume that the audience is smarter than me and that they're you know they're understanding of the play and also just like basic understanding of wherever this plays placed in historical context. They're gonna they're gonna. They're gonna look for easter eggs. And so like the dramaturge. I rely on for easter eggs. So we do a lot of that in the beginning because then we try to get all the other sort of members of the production like designers actors excited about that idea that like we're making this special sort of faceted little box for the audience. And how many different things can we make defined so an audience can have a totally different experience based upon the other people in the audience or based upon how they enter into the show or based upon like. I mean like right now like just based upon like the new cycle. You can watch the show one day and it could be a tragedy the next day it could be a comedy if you do it well enough. You know if there are enough easter eggs. Were it. feels like you know. Maybe ironic or prophetic or heartbreaking Metrics are super duper critical. And then at the end. They're like always invite someone that i feel Really competitive with to see if the show and like see what they say. Because i can feel if they like it or not and then i have a dramaturge so we can cut the shit out of it because i think that my work best like best works at ninety minutes like no intermission a really fast and just like almost trying to get the audience to physically feel what the circle would be like. We're you just can't let them go chance to go. Just don't give them a chance to go and not not 'cause like they're going to run from the theater. Screaming was like what the fuck is like. You don't want it has to be unrelenting. The momentum to a lot of a lot of the work that i've seen you do is very momentum driven. I think yeah and you'd lose a lot of that with that break in between. Yeah no i think it also like i mean. Contemporary theatre recently is very ninety minutes packages. We don't have the stamina anymore but also think there's a part where making a different type of theater and so there's a part where that type of restorative are. I don't know for me and the the work that i've really enjoyed watching as an audience member. It has a sort of a sustained energy level that can't last. And then you can't you don't wanna pick it up again if you're given a break you don't wanna be forced to do hard investigations you know or be put non com- uncomfortable like sort of situations as an audience member you know you sort of want the second half to be more like singing in the rain like and so like the dramaturge for me really helps figure out because i always end up having like three quarters of the show done and the actors are terrified and we have like two days before tech and we have finale of the show to do and everyone's like causes gonna happen like it'll happen just believe it will happen and it happens through of carving through the front part and realizing maybe we can just sort of backload some of those things and steal sometimes we actually will steal physical staging and put it in the last part realized we were sort of like shooting are wad too early or sometimes we'll do it again 'cause it was worth it or sometimes we'll realize maybe we need stillness that we almost finish finish. I always finish the show by shortening and tightening up the first third of the show. 'cause i really believe as a director and lake. The most important thing is the beginning of the end like the audience like the like. That is what they remember most. And there've been shows that were so shitty but had amazing openings an amazing final events that. There's a part where i like to. I hope i do a good enough job throughout. Like i'm not just relying on too little book ends to call it the ethical piece but i think that that beginning an end is another thing that the dramaturge helps me with and they'll be like this really gimmicky. This is really stupid. And i'm like okay. I was lying to myself. 'cause the problem is really like the circle also can engender this like loyalty to like. Just collaboration you know and so you'd need the drama turk to help sort of be like a second director and be like cut it. That'll just be in the soup. There's just more onions for the soup. Yes oh drama turks. I don't i don't know how people don't have dominatrix. I'm wondering where you see the use of movement in contemporary or and specifically commercial contemporary theatre. And if you see a use for. I've noticed and maybe it's just that thing of like once you're introduced to something you notice it more but i mean i've noticed a lot of commercial theatrical productions even broadway utilizing a lot of movement in their storytelling. Yeah i think it's a product of two things. Think that we all like it. I used to pride myself on. Having like really edgy. Music selections that's gone like everyone can find the same the best player. Like that needle in the haystack. Like sort of feather in your cap thing is gone So spotify it. Yeah i think everyone has like you know like shas. Am i know it now to bitch But i think it's the you know the ubiquitous sort of flattening of sources. A little bit. But then i also think it may be like the other way to say that it's like it's just like they're more people watching and they're coming from different places this same reason. Why like action movies. Sell out in our blockbusters because like it transcends language and i think we are there like tiktok made us very visual. I see it everywhere. I see it all the time like. That's the thing one of the things i miss. The most is walking around midtown manhattan on the grid and no one would know it like being like. Oh my gosh. We're doing such a great floor pattern and they don't know it. I miss like those. Like lovely little exchanges. But i do feel like it and i actually see it. A lot in sort of Like web based series as well. Where i think that is Like i just watched with my my children's star girl it's a disney plus movie but it's like disney's crushing their physical theatre game now. How so they girl. It's actually cute at some girl. That was in. America's got talent and she's just like really unique in idiosyncratic on her own as an artist has a really great gravity girl voice but they caster as this sort of outsider. That comes into a sleepy town and wakes up but she has her love interesting. She's magic and so she starts going to the football games and singing cover songs during the halftime show and the half like the halftime show become more and more physically driven. So like it's like if you think of american. Utopia david burns visit cat like like it's happening. It's happening at disney plus. It's happening everywhere and i think it's Has to do with. There's also i think there's like i think people who have like i don't know or at least like minded people so sick of everything's on repeat accepted gets exponentially worse and more horrific and shitty. So somehow just doing something physically feels like a little island of quiet and like a nice way to communicate some type of you. Know sort of Either if it's like a rising action or just in terms of thinking like a script like some sometimes right now like maybe. We don't even need to talk because we're all so on the same page that we don't want the words to divide us and that physicality feels very unifying and and Energizing yeah i was. I was thinking. I was going to ask you think that it's a purposeful plan or objective in the disney plus model that you just talked about that star girl where that was like a purposeful action or do you think that it's become so like what you said like the tiktok society now is kind of zigging ingrained in us even realizing mandy moore choreographed all the the halftime show. So i think it's just the the choreographers that are coming up now are products of that. Like ryan eddington. There's so like their products of youtube of tiktok. And so that is how how we have those worlds collide disney and awesome weird movement based know covers of betray your school on a ukulele with like a big bass drum and a hot sort of like flu sounding horn section. But i think that is like there's a part where i'm very excited about that and then sometimes like okay. Maybe i can retire like my work. Here is done you all do movement But i think it's really a product of our time. I think that we're Maybe it's a sign that like everything's becoming a little more Equitable and like. There's sort of like a universal language. That can happen once that happens. That's like my hope that like you know it's like a code for like this is a good place to be. And we like making fucked up shit or In disney's case sweet idiosyncratic stuff a couple years ago. You decided to leave. msu as an adjunct. I'm wondering what made you not necessarily leave that particular school because there were probably reasons there but Just a transitioning into something a little different for for lack of a better word like a civilian job. Yeah mostly was health health insurance to be honest And then i had before. I've always taught like since since graduate school and i love it. I find it in like essential to my creative process actually But they're just start of the all. The different competing needs for my time. I realized i was losing why. I was teaching like i. The engine was started getting tapped out. So it's funny. Because now i find myself in the middle of pandemic loads to do stuck in my room But so i. I think it's now i'm really happy. Doing maybe one show maybe every two years and when it feels like the moment is right because it's just i don't know i. That's my new cycle you know. That's that's kind of what i was trying to get. What's your relationship now to the theater. And where does that sit in your on two different ways. Yeah i it. I'm like for a long time. I did device theater. 'cause i didn't have the discipline or the confidence to write. And so now. I have like lots of writing and i realized that i didn't have the competence. 'cause it's it's just so there's so much to go through like for me. My processes like just generation generation generation. So now the the next step is like editing which is going to be interesting. i'll keep you posted And then the other sort of side of that is i. I see like almost like a like a like a peacecorp mission. I feel like this is essential work for everyone right now. Like connection and like being. I i see it People are people this as in the movement like the this approach. What what this not necessarily movement that. What what you're doing where you wanna of it. The product of it being Being willing to listen longer being willing to be rock being willing to change your mind trusting your work enough knowing that you don't have to have it stick the first day of whatever you're doing you know it's sort of Realizing whatever you're working on and it could be either theater it could be You know You could be you know a litigator. You could be a sort of a legislator you could ever you are. I feel like theater. That approach of but i said before being kind to yourself being kind to others willing to be wrong like sticking it through when it gets uncomfortable you know like it. I think it would serve everyone really well. And so i do enjoy bringing that into like other settings i'd i am so sad. Just have it be such a breath of fresh air for so many people to say. I was totally off base. I had no idea what you're talking about. And i just started talking. I'm so sorry people like what like but like that. Like i often had students come up. I don't. I don't know if i should do theater. I'm terrified. I'm not comfortable with it. I think i should drop out of the program. And i think their parents might have paid me like you have to stick on the program. Why because you won't do theater but you will take this training with you out to the world. I mean you kind of did that yourself. I've done it again. I've had so many different jobs. And i think that's also one of the reasons why i ended up doing the type theater i do because like if if you've been in multiple different sort of uncomfortable situations and had to start again and again you realize that like other starting sucks and i really hate it like the first like leading up to rehearsal the first days of rehearsal in the first rehearsal like i hate it. It takes every ounce of me to be like upbeat and positive i just feel like it's just it's just dirty and having to started and everyone's fake and we're all proving Like proving talk small. Talk so annoying. I want to get straight to it. But if you rush it is your cheap date. It doesn't work. They never call you back like it doesn't work so i mean that's a lot but i really feel like so like my life in terms of theatrical life and sort of outside theater professional life in like it's always been a weird ebb and flow. But i think that they're both essential to each other because the i'm outside of it this time the more i know the next couple of things i have to do have to be almost like i call it for like my twelve year old self to like new. I should be doing this. You know like. Don't worry girl we're we're going to get this one And then i also feel like in all the other settings. I do believe that any person who is worth their salt in making good theater makes every place they go better you know because they bring their whole selves to everything and people can't not do that. You know like people. Like if i show up. I'm ready to work and like other douchebag like webex sort of like the they feel it they feel like they're not present. You know that idea being present is like the best thing that anyone can do right now. I just want to share a quote and that if you have a response to it feel free awesome. So the quote that i chose is from arthur miller and he says the theater is so endlessly fascinating. Because it's so accidental. It's so much like life. Yeah i hope like if you do it right. It all should look like an accident like ice so like this is different. This is sort of what i tell all my actors like. We're like somewhere that everyone hears about the white van was on my list and we just passed the cruises my fantasy so here the white man i version of the accident. That like i feel like theater is required. Essential like the same way like everyone needs to do a certain amount of physical activity and you need to put the right food in your body and you should read certain things and vote for certain people whatever I feel like everyone should have to do theater. So i have this fantasy. That i have a white van. That probably has a very large carbon footprint and like sputters. Backfires is like a really a kidnapper van. And i pull up to different people's houses but it's like like literally pedal to the metal probably sixty six miles per hour to a screeching halt like burnt tyres. And i literally run their like. I'm like storming their house and kidnap them. I put a sack on their like their head. Throw them in the back of the car. And i get the whole cast that way and that a load them up like we zip over to theater. I crashed into the loading dock. The car is completely totaled and pushed them onstage and then they all of a sudden find themselves disoriented fearful scared strangely feeling. This strange need to be in this room with these people right now telling the story. There's a part where like it should feel like a surprise for the actor to like nothing is guaranteed so maybe it's sorta like that like accidental idea. But i i want it to be that level of surprise and excitement that like you know. It's really think of theater like every time we get to it like a preview or when we open up i everyone like this is like my wedding day and is because you sort of play on your whole wedding and you. You don't forget that you don't think about all the people that are going to be there so you're thinking of like all the you know the details. The flowers address whatever whatever and then all of a sudden you go there and these people are here and it's the most overwhelming moving thing in the world to think that people showed up because it's this is important to them and i always want every actor on stage to have that moment because i talk about breaking the third wall a lot the fourth wall a lot and it's like i want them for a moment to feel the responsibility and the just like loving connection of. Oh my god you guys want to see this shit. Holy fuck. let's do this. That right here was fucked up. Let's get going. You know. And like i think the audience feels it that i think one by one audience like i feel like they just they just like connected that just got me like the just like sucked me in there you know and somehow for me like the idea of the accident is very purposeful is pretty staged It's a very sturdy container that then hopefully the audience starts to fill up. you know. Yeah we got to the white van idling outside your house now mary. You wanna kick us off with our lightning round. Yes so these questions. We ask enlightening lightning fashion. We're not necessarily going to respond. Although sometimes i want to respond. And o'brien also to tried to just go from one question to the next okay. And i'm answering all the questions. Yeah ok okay. The first one my favorite one. What is one thing in the theater industry that confuses you why they're not more female directors. What are three adjectives. That describe your favorite working environment. Hot loud and fast. Is there something in your process that you find unique to you. How strong and rattling it is and how scared and overwhelmed. I am that whole time. What's your favorite yoga pose. Probably the crowd. Just because i'm a show off me too. Be master the croats proud crow into like head stand and plank. Something really fucked up. What is one hobby. You have outside of theater. So i'm a hardcore. Roller skater. And like my basement has become like a roller rink. Like all my kids can shoot the dock like the pandemic. We've really refined our skating skills. I love that. What is the scariest moment. You have as a director. The first night of rehearsal particular Scary moments No well. I'm not like scary movies that i've been watching there been a couple times. Where like i am as physical as i am and i really do like to do things that are physically rigorous and are alarming for the audience. I also want to. I want my actors to be completely safe to the point. Where i can't do it or if they can't do it is like repeat it safely again and again it's not worth like. I'm not comfortable with that. And there have been a couple of shows that have seen that even before the show started. I notice a set piece and be like that's not gonna work. Someone's going to get hurt and then be in the front row. When someone breaks their leg that i hate i hate that i hate like the hulk spiderman thing like i just don't think you can be bad ass and i feel like we've pushed the physical envelopes so far. Now with a specially like sort of like any sort of fly work and stuff like that but as soon as it's not safe it's just not cool because you lose audience you know. Let me the audience can sense it in here and there immediately pulled out of the scene. The story yeah. They're totally popped out. You have to like walk the edge but as soon as you cross the line. It's you're an asshole. This love letter a something. I don't know what in this is. Our final question that we always ask our guests. What was the last great piece of theater that you saw. Well i saw two pieces that have stuck with me for a long time. The strub piece at p. performances. I loved that with gobert combo. And then you know. The david byrne peace now is being like spike lee films. So it's coming out soon. Who'd you see that number way. No i saw it actually at For screen for sales. Whatever the tennis places in queens. I saw it years before it happened. And it is so any anybody who choreograph. That is one of my teachers. So i sort of always track her but that is one of the things. I'm so jealous. Because i've always wanted david byrne to be like my guy and to be they to do. His shows a little jelly but she nailed it at. Both of those are really physical. You know thank you so much joy to have you on. Awesome nice to meet you. I like meeting you too. Is there any way that our listeners can find you on social media. Do you have any public profiles or now you gotta you gotta leave no trace dump. They'll vanina lake man. Take off for plates. Who you are. I love it. That's the magic. I really just wanted to do a circle now. Thanks everyone for listening to this episode of page to stage to keep up with us. You can find us on. Instagram and facebook. Page to stage podcast. And if you're enjoying these conversations we would really appreciate it if you could take a couple minutes to rate and review us wherever you're listening to this podcast until next time. That's brian. that's mary lucille. Later by thank you. For listening to the broadway podcast network. Make sure to visit us. Online at broadway podcast network dot com on instagram at broadway. Podcast network or on twitter at a pod network.

alex brightman ashley arianna dubose Michael yuri sarah Andrew feldman lilius White leslie margarita George salazar rabin karen lou Nottage alex lattimore allen david torrens roth gordon brian nats Mary join elaine welter lethem wamba Moscow mary brian amp bogart manhattan James jordan
Episode 1256 - Kimmy Gatewood

WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

1:25:13 hr | 2 months ago

Episode 1256 - Kimmy Gatewood

"Hey folks if your morning toast taste more like cardboard than bread. Venue definitely haven't tried america's number one organic bread dave's killer bread. We're talking about the highest quality ingredients. It's organic it's non mo and it's just plain old delicious killer taste killer texture killer nutrition. I love the twenty one whole grains and seeds bread great for toast or sandwiches or just when you want a slice of bread visit dave's killer bread dot com to learn more and look for dave's killer bread in the bread aisle of your local grocery store also it can happen so easily. You're out with your friends or co-workers you're putting back a few drinks a few becomes a few too many. It's time to go in for a moment. You think a colin for a ride. Now you're good to drive you live nearby. You can make it home okay. What are the odds. You'll get pulled over or even. So what's the worst that could happen. You lose your license. You lose your job you total your car. You kill someone. It only takes one mistake to change your life or someone else's forever played safe and plan ahead to get a ride drive sober or get pulled over all right. Let's do the show all right. Let's do this how are you. What the fuckers. What the fuck buddies. What fucks tres. What's happening. I'm mark mayor and this is my podcast. How's everybody doing okay. I'm a little sweaty. I'm a little I don't know man charlie. Watts is dead. But it's weird i I love charley. I love the rolling stones. I listened to the rolling stones probably every week at least once a week on purpose. Not in passing. Not as part of a playlist. I will listen to rolling stones records all the way through. I listened to get your out over and over again few months ago when i was hiking and listening to blue and lonesome a lot for some reason. I do listen to that. Get your yards out. Because that is where i really. I understood the power of charlie. Oddly it's on that live record and ugly. It was on a reissue. Of that live record there was a slight remix done. I don't even know if the stones like those reissues. But i think the apcoa reissues. And i remember. I got it a few years back. And i used to listen that album all the time. Get your eyes out. Yeah because it's got. It's it's great live album. It's one of the best live albums because during those breaks during midnight rambler you heard about the boast lack and if you turn it upright there you'll hear some guy go god damn and another woman go just scream and they do it through all the brakes. God damn but. I think i think what would really struck me on. The remix was just how fucking tight that rhythm section was. Just how fucking tight. Bill and charlie were and realizing that without that everything is a fucking disaster like keith. As great as he is famously. One of the great rhythm guitar players. And i start thinking about that. I mean look man. I love keith. I eat. I love keith. A love them all all right. I miss bill. I wasn't going to go see the stones years ago dino. Because i just didn't feel right seeing them without bill but dean talked me into it and it was great. Daryl's great but the thing about the rhythm section and hearing keith. Talk about charlie. And they're sort of unspoken kind of understanding each other performance. Is that keith. Without charlie and bill would just be chaos. It would sound disorganized kind of like fragmented and stilted that keith richards. His entire sense of rhythm that evolved over time is only because of charlie watts and finding those holes and finding that place to float on. Charlie's jam and charlie fucking had to follow keith. And you don't even notice that and that's got to be a chore different points in time so without charlie you got nothing you get no stones. I mean look you know. Obviously if they decide to tour. And steve jordan goes out with him i mean. He's a great drummer by me throughout the whole thing that there's no really charlie is one of the most solid beats keepers of time. There is and he can swing and stay on top of it at the same time. It's crazy how good he was. But if you really wanna listen to the subtlety and the genius of that rhythm section of charlie and bill specifically give a listen to that. Get your eyes out and listened close. Because they're holding it together. Charlie's holding the whole fucking thing together. How do you think ronnie and keith can do all that. Messy fucking swap. That they do without charlie kind of like just being the bedrock. You know what i mean. Try was great. And just a real suave motherfucker too. Great drummer great rolling stone. One out of five gun. Great great charmer goggin miss him. I mean i still got him. I still got all those fucking records. I got all those records. Charlie never leaves and he lived a good life. He lived a long life. Specially iraq dude. Yeah rest in peace charlie. Watts godspeed swaying it. I forgot to tell you who's on the show. Because i wanted to honor charlie Today i'm gonna talk to kimmy gatewood. she is one of my co stars or was one of my co stars on glow She played one half of the stacey and dawn duo with her real life comedy partner rebecca johnson. And actually kimmy and rebecca were honestly very early. Comedy podcast adopters when they turn their apple sisters act which was their bit into one of the early scripted comedy. Podcasts kinney's been directing a lot of television Lately and she just directed her first feature film the allies a injure movie good on paper which is now on net flicks and it was good to see her to reminisce ke- to reminisce ke- we reminisced now is the perfect time to turn your cool idea into a new website. Do it with squarespace. Whatever you need a for it's also simple to do with squarespace. Start with a design. Template and use dragon dropped tools to make it your own and get to know your audience with the squarespace analytics tools. Those include insight on page views traffic sources time on site audience geography and more buying a domain from squarespace is easy because there are no hidden fees or price hikes. All websites are optimized for mobile. So your site looks great on any device and we know all this from experience wti pod dot com is a squarespace site and it works great for us head to squarespace dot com slash t f for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch us the offer code w f to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain that squarespace dot com slash w. t.f with offer code w t f for ten percent off your first purchase before i forget on my tour. I've added some shows first of all helium at saint. Louis september sixteen seventeen eighteen. You can get tickets for that. The neptune seattle september twenty. Second is is available. I might add a second show of that sells out the aladdin theater in portland Sold out but added another show. That's on september twenty fourth. I just want to give you a heads up The dynasty typewriter show october fourth. I'm not sure if there's tickets for that there might be new york. Comedy festival is now on sale for everyone that's november thirteenth at town hall. Get tickets for that. Okay that's the update on that good deal. So i've been festering about this thing on my finger primarily because here's the deal you know. I've become somewhat resilient to trolling. But i am not that resilient to suggestions about certain things that are actually worse for me than trolling like. I was on my instagram on instagram live. And i've got this thing. I'm under my fingernails on my index finger and someone on the instagram wife. Said you should get check for melanoma so. That was actually some of the finest trolling that i've ever been victim to because it's not finding my weakness around insecurity or jealousy or any of that shit and it's not. It's not really those kind of plane triggers of people with entertainers egos That you can get all worked up. It was something more refined than that. And i don't think it was the intention of the person that set it to troll me but it just i was like looked at my finger and i'm like what is that i mean. Yeah it looked like. I banged my finger but i wasn't sure if i banged my finger. 'cause i didn't remember banging my finger so i started to look at it and then i of course google just a touch just a tad fingernail. Melanoma melanoma under nail didn't quite look. Like what i got. But you know enough for me to start festering then for me to start thinking about melanoma and about how long would it take. Did it spread what is going on. How do you get it out of there. That was my biggest thing. So i started festering. About how if they have to get even. If it wasn't what do you. How do you gotta get something out from under a finger so because of my ability to spiral especially with hypochondriac panic you know i started to think like well. I mean if it hasn't spread which it probably has so. I'm probably got cancer. Which means like. I gotta start that fight and i was just starting to enjoy my life so that's probably going to happen and do i really wanna die that way so i might want to start thinking you know sort of kind of frankly and honestly about you know ending my own life because i really don't wanna just rot away of cancer by myself I gotta get my affairs in order and what okay. Let's say it hasn't spread so then do i just lose the finger. Do i lose the tip of the finger. Am i going to be incapacitated right. When i started enjoying playing guitar. Playing out and doing this stuff is now when i have to adjust to playing with partial finger with just part of my index finger on my friend hand. Do i have to make that adjustment. Would i make that adjustment. I'm not a professional musician. Why would i make the commitment of trying to play with three and a half fingers. No one's gonna give shit about that miracle i'm pretty limited player and i'll just be the same limited player only with half a finger on my index finger. And maybe i'll away with it. I don't know and what has acting to look good cosmetically. Are they going to be going to have some weird kind of tiny night nails sticking out of the top. My gonna be ashamed of my hand. Oh my god. So when do i go to the doctor. So i started to spin out and then On the plane. I started pulling my cuticle back on the bottom so i could see how deep down the melanoma went and just how much damage you're going to have to do to the finger if they have to sort of cut off the top or scoop it out and then i you know i kind of like i fucked up my cuticle looking at that and then i just went into foreign panic and i was like wow. I don't even know the doctor going to on wednesday. Are they going to give a shit about me. You know they're part of my plan. I've been there before. But i'm starting to think that some doctors they just kind of blow through shit and they just kind of like. You're not you know they care to a certain degree but I guess some of the lessons. I learned when lin passed away that these doctors can be pretty passive. They have nothing invested in you if you don't have a relationship with them you're just you know something that happens. You're just part of their day. Something that happens. They do their job if you die. They don't know you if you don't have a relationship with them so then i start freaking about about the doctor. I gotta see in dean this and he's got a. I got a dermatologist. So i went to dean's guy who's kind of a whiz notices this shit and he looked at my finger and he said oh yeah that's not melanoma. I'm ninety nine point. Nine percent sure that's not melanoma. It looks like you banged into some. Let's get a microscope out so we got it under the microscope. I mean how long has it been there on my nephew weeks. He's i if you would've told me that's been there for a year. Maybe i'd be concerned. If that was a melanoma that size would have had to have been there about a year and it looks like you banged it. You bruised but wiser cuticle allen mike. 'cause i was pulling it down with my other fingers so i could see how deep the melanoma was. He's like. oh well. I'm gonna give you a prescription for some Cream for that so it doesn't get infected so in my panic i might've injured myself. So what's new. What's new poking and prodding poking and prodding but also some other realizations about mortality. I realized that whatever the case is and thanks to my friend dean my friends sam my friend kit for talking me through somewhat of a spiral that you know that i'm going to get something if i don't die quickly. Umbrella gonna die something and i'm fifty seven years old and i got sort of grow up around that i certainly have a handle on the idea of mortality. I've certainly seen death of close now. But something's going to happen and you know how you handle that is going to speak to who you are your sense of character and one of the things i realized when i was panicking and dragging other people into my panic around my non melanoma under my nail. And what that was implying to me and my head and how it triggered my fear was that i know people with real sickness. I know people living with real sickness and they live with real sickness and they do what they have to do to manage that sickness and that's part of life and for me to spin out as if anyone's going to make me feel better. I mean when the shit really comes down it's gonna come down. This wasn't that time and not. Panicking is probably the better way to do it. And i thought. I'd sort of handle on that. I've i've been. I've been more of a hypochondriac in my life. But i just usually i think like wow. Wait a few days and see what happens. And that's usually what i do but the nature of these type of bruises under the nail They take months to go away so that that was. That approach wasn't gonna work. So i i'm giving myself pass on that but just realize when you're freaking out about probably nothing that you should be handling as a grownup it's important to get things checked out and to realize You know that you can and should do that when you have something. You're concerned about but tried not to freak out pri pri prematurely because You know you have to go call those people that you freaked out and say Yeah it's i'm alright. Thanks thanks for me drag you down the panic whole. There's never been a better time to try a shirt from untuckit. The world is going casual people. Even if you're going back into the office people are just jesting to a new reality where we all want to be as comfortable as possible wearing comfortable clothes. Maybe new to you but to the folks at untuckit. They've been doing the comfortable clothes thing forever forever people. They're famous for their button down shirts. That are made to be worn untucked but they have tons of other shirts to that. You wanna take off polos tease. Henley's they got them all and they have shorts pants to if you like single colors. They've got that if you like checkered shirts. They've got those patterns. They got him who needs. Dan flashes when you've got all these patterns that untuckit short sweet guy and i can always use some new shirts. Even when i'm on stage so i got some new styles from kentucky the fern ridge and the dorato go check those out and see what else they've got their at untuckit dot com use code w. f. for twenty percent off your first purchase at untuckit dot com. That's code wtn for twenty percent off your first purchase from n. t. uc it. Dot com untuckit. So this is me talking to my friend kimmy gatewood. Who is the director of good on paper. It's a wise swiss injure booby she's also was in glow with me and directed a lot of other stuff and there's some comedy of her out there. There's stuff their stuff in this is me talking to. Kimmy is the longest we've ever talked to her. And i actually so you're making jam yet and this is pre pandemic too so i was. It would english so you can say like so you have to qualify like that. This was not done out of fear and sadness this is done because of an abundance on abundance of. Yeah now the the bread my husband making was made at a fear and sadness. Bread did the whole bread. He's still doing it. Oh no different. Starters won the best starter. He started that one. Where do you get that from best. You know he got started at. They have a recipe for it or that you can. I just went to their other restaurant yesterday. Novel spell. But it's good holy shit like i'd never go to restaurants because i cook. I'm so disappointed at restaurants so because usually you're right this is what is this. I could make this or not. It's not amazing so fuck it. Yeah but that place is amazing. Like it's so nice to go to a place and you eat something. I could never make this. This is like magic food. And if you get there cookbook. They have like egg yolks thick. That take days to cure and that best. Ya has a cookbook. And that's italian right. It's like mediterranean. Italian really slash is amazing. It's very amazing. I don't eat like david. Bohm tradit- i eat meat. But i fish so. They have this Bone marrow everyone is obsessed with it right. They scooped the band bone marrow out and then there's a whole pasta thing you know. Oh this pasta involve straight back straight up the straight up bone marrow thing where people just scoop it out of bound like i'm pretty i don't things. Don't bother me but there's something about that. The consistency of it is not great. But i like fish fish. Oh it's a octopus. Oh you know. It's been sitting around and soft. Didn't his stuff is on the verge of going bad and it's just that we like it. It's a pay golden and oil. Yeah whoever yeah now. I don't know how that is i. I started out like it's not when those things like. Is this fresh. Of course it was frozen and we did the thing to. It's and here you go. I don't know feel bad. I didn't. I didn't watch the octopus. The show my octopus teacher know. How was i gonna eat octopus. After that i just knew right away from the trailer. If i watch this. No more octopus. Betsy was my best friend and my teacher. Birth and i'm like. Oh god that best you dishes still good. Yeah i know. I will watch this stuff. I should probably not eat meat. I don't know. And i mean you know i started. I became a vegan because this guy was dating back in new york was vegan but he was kinda vegan than eight. Like all that fake meat. So like i was just like farting all the time. Just of relationship that make-or-break foreigners we were okay. For moved into his apartment it was nice vegan farting come that hurdle. It's not nothing. Yeah yeah we got to. You got yeah and then and then we moved into another apartment of williamsburg and there was a. It was an empty place. It was a bakery and then it became a bar and that pretty much broke our relationship because it was just like opening four in the morning and i. Yeah i had that. I had that crazy person Fantasy where i would like drill holes in the basement or poor watered. Was that bad. Yeah nightmare i thought. Well that's better than like well. It's only four so we booked drinking grow out of bed in the morning. You guys just upstairs gave knock on the ceiling ready to serve. Okay so were you living back in new york. Yeah so i i went circuit. University graduate in two thousand came to new york. I live in. La oh okay. Yeah i li- i moved in two thousand eight. So where where does it start. Where'd you grow up in maryland maryland. Like where's the mic. Like what part. I don't talk to many people from maryland. So i'm between baltimore and dc right is it is virginia's close to maryland right. It is yeah okay. Something called the dumb marva peninsula delaware maryland. Virginia right right and then there's delaware's where you're like do we. Did we go through your favorite bit. Always that wayne's world delaware. We're in delaware. I love it. I don't know if i o the delaware river gap short dig bridge right. Yeah and ready. Yeah there's the chesapeake bay. Oh that's delaware to that's maryland. So how far into maryland are you. Is that an east west situation Will you know. Maryland is a very oddly shaped state. There's like the little cranky little little thin part the upper and then part that kind of hooks over in the chesapeake bay is in the middle of so. I'm like between washington. Dc and baltimore right. My dad group washington dc one of thirteen children. Lots of aunts and uncles. Yeah that's crazy from one woman yes. They were catholic as you can imagine what opus dei catholic which is like vinci code crazies. Type i mean. I don't know if they like. Your dad was that my dad was. I mean his parents were just. He's been around that long. Yeah it's been around for a while but my dad had me. He had a kid when he was like seventeen or eighteen. Yeah get out. there's no going back. And then he. Mu when he was like twenty so he. I know i have a half brother and then I have two other siblings but my brother was like oops i. Don't yeah. I didn't even find out about until i was like thirteen. And then he was in her life about four years and then we didn't hear from him after that still straight. Yeah i still. I looked for my facebook. I found him once. Did you reach out. I i think. I was too afraid to reach out right. What's the story. There was like some Wh wh how how the happen i think it was. They weren't very nice. No yeah yeah. And then she decided to keep the baby. I don't i don't really. I really need to like get it dig. Dig it with my dad back because it happened. Like i said when i was thirteen and then i would then i was like yeah and then i was often college i. I don't know what we need to find out what we don't i. It just seems like you know because e with fairly little effort the information is out there now you know and people find out things when they do genetic testing a lot of people are finding out that they have half brothers. You've gotta be like mom. What is that. we thought we took care of it. But now you took care of. Put it up for adoption now. I don't even know the kid. Yes the by the the most i think is like the sperm donor. Egg donor of at all because like doctors Yeah oh my god. Just use mine. Army so creepy. What did they talk like that to got plenty. I can generate this stuff every day. What did who's gonna be the wiser. They know about twenty three and me. All they knew is in their hearts that there were twenty kids somewhere. Yeah right. no that's messed up. And they get married would if they just kids. Wow i didn't think of that. Brain instantly goes thirteen. I've so many because they have to make sure they're not a great one. You do genetic screening data person in the area so dc opus dei government. Not in my sister works for the government now. Your dad's family the the large catholic. No they did like My fascinating star. Grandmother group in las vegas was part of like her dad. own was the owner or the president of the nevada bank so they were like socialites in las vegas. Yeah like yeah. He was like in the heyday. Yeah indeed in the heyday. There's there's somebody stories about my grandmother there's Like that her grip. My great grandfather got the job because he had nice handwriting. He you know he worked his way up to be president bank and the other story. She's like i was. I lived across from bugsy and i'm like really barbra streisand's mom in brooklyn or wherever that is lived right across from. Barbara's mother queens flushing. Everybody's like down the street from very jew thing. Is you know barbra. Streisand's parents barry. Manilow lives all over new bugsy school and then she my grandfather who was a life insurance salesman and then had thirteen children. Just like the. The heyday of las vegas quietly disappeared from our family. What thirteen. You know off. Yeah i know all of them. They all came by wedding. That is insane. I love them. It is so cool to be a part of family that big and how many cousins ninety probably because the cousins have cousins. because you know and like It's a lot like the last i checked. They think it was forty seven. That's amazing. yeah now. I'm sort of fascinated with the opus day thing but it sounds like your generation removed from it i am i am. I don't know too much about it And my dad wasn't really into it. I mean i was raised catholic. Just because that's what had happened like my. My parents were like banished from being married catholic and then also you. Is it hard to become catholic. Latin involved ritual robes smoking or just like a lot of kneeling and standing and eating the crackers. Yeah my grandmother grandmom wreck. My mom's mom was baptised. So that's what my mom was. So so that's a lot more That's a modern more exciting religion. Yeah yeah yeah. That's pretty fun. Like they had so in the catholic church we had wine music in the baptist. Church more lively lively but they had grape juice. So less fun right yes. We did the jews. Did that You know after services. Little morgan david. That's where it starts for a lot of jewish junkies no blues players bar mitzvah wise man. I my favorite jewish holiday is definitely passover but only like one day a passover. No no i have. I dated a lot of jews and also be friends comedy but like loved going to pass over. Did you remember The show that used to rob kutner at the y. And new york herzog. I did that show once or twice. And i went right after zach calvin aga's and i was like why am i here wing. You supposed to go after. Joe yes yes and then i came up there. Like kimmy gatewood. I was like listen. I again not. I was not long for the end up when you went to like your two siblings after seven exam. Yeah one one works. Ups he's a truck driver and the other one works at the atf. so the which is the Are hillary tobacco fire right now. Alcohol alcohol yeah agent. She yeah she no she's not an agent she's She works she's like she doesn't really i would like what's going on. Tell me everything she's like. I don't know i. I work at administration kimmy book. The hotel sounds exciting just at the computer. Most of the time it gets water sometimes. Yeah yeah presentation every now and again look how many people in uniform normal normal siblings. Yeah in the world. Mom works like she works at a company that Does the monitors like the train tracks like engineers train tracks. Riveting i know indeed riveting air traffic control for trains. No it's a testing the tracks to make sure that they're safe a job you go to work for every day Well my mom basically just like gah. She's the same thing administration covers the receipts and does the travel all engineers that go train. Okay she's got a problem on mile twenty of the is that kind of thing now. She's like you your flights at three fifty five. Don't miss it. Don't forget to give your expenses and receive okay and then the guy's comeback. When did you start doing Funny shit like high school or yeah i i. I was introduced improv. In high school and I would just do it for intermission. I would do an improv show in the high school the at At assemblies no at the the place so and the intermission of the play. So i'd be in the play. And then i'd out in the middle of mission and be like all right guys going by drake's or whatever and i'm going to put on an improv show. Really so you're in the theater group at in school. Yeah you're like. I'm going to carve out this niche for myself. I'm going to riff why people are going to the bathroom a little bit love interactive moment. Hey come back just you. It was a lot of times just me. But then i would train people to do it with me so we would do. Bits like with I had a couple of people i would. That would do it with me. Some people wanted to stay in character. Right take their moment during intermission. The people in the play. Oh yeah i mean. I was awesome when the play. But you guys didn't stay in character and we got an is fourteen not method actor. Which is this money. Yeah i mean my again you know. Being a part of big family. I would always put our show and stuff and i think that comedy was just the way of the the love communication and the family each other. Laugh when you were got. You were beloved by the family's right right memorable. Yeah no this child had to be forty. This one seems to have some talent. Kill them with the aunt lining. Yeah but then. I came to new york like you're so much a part of my story. It's hilarious right. Yes because like i did after college or college syracuse through your way up there. Yeah did you theater there. Yeah i did. I was either going to go to theater at syracuse or biology at maryland. Said if i get into go to theater school really that that was the crossroads of research or maybe being doctor right exactly. Well that was. That was the thing my my my friend. Her brother or sister was is a biologist. And she's like i research chicken shit all day and i was like Wow this is Does i don't know if that sounds nearly exciting. Romantic as i thought it did you know. Yeah yeah yeah no. It definitely doesn't but it's another one of those things. You could do a movie with the on on site. Because i think we got an active. Do we even see the chickens. Oh my god believe me. I've asked my brother all the time. Like what's it like being ups truck driver. Maybe it can characterize even done king queen or whether the accuser sam done he's full. Ups driver wasn't he guy. I didn't even realize that. See the donohoe script. And kevin james do this decade damn it Thanks mark you hear my life so you do theater like major in a kind of deal. Yeah i majored in theater enacting. But it's funny again. Like never got. The mainstay shows or anything audition. And then i found again. I would go to do. Improv shows The late night improv shows we. Would we had this comedy trip. The broken compass players that improv. Ms are just talked to tom mccarthy. He was in one and bbc along running. Sketch that running with scissors or something. I remember what is was called but they actually moved has a group to minnesota holy. Sort of like do it. Wow al people. Good people from minnesota colin dunn charlie sanders victim granada. All those guys Yeah i don't know like that was the generation after me we were the rogues standups out there on around the room for moms everywhere. Younger kids group work. Social animals deer players players at man. I'm rebel in sad and hotel the life. I've actually grown to really enjoy the that part of the life where i'm just in a hotel room mike. I don't have to clean it nobody. I don't hear any noise and to worry about anything perfect. There's a tiny water. Wherever i go but it's just peaceful it used to be sort of life is now my nice redeploy. Yeah there's nothing to do all right so you're doing you're heavy. You're doing sketch. But you're also doing what beckett and doing a whole a whole semester around back in. Yeah yeah really point. What is the key to beckett. Wha what's the essence. Oh okay my like. I took this beckett class i was. I thought it was so stupid. And i hated it and i was pointless and i was like this is garbage. Sounds like exactly what beck. It's trying to get across the message. I was like it's not like he's trying and then like i just got put into context. And that's like i feel like when i understood suddenly like reactions and art and whatever and and like my my little one of my nieces history stupid because you don't like us it today and i was like no girl no like history is everything you know that context for where reactions come from. That's a big fear. Fear of the the way the internet is shifting. The brains of younger people is that there's no context and seemingly no need for it so we kind of float this time free zone and we just react to everything all the time. Yes yes in in real time rather than looking back what you have to contextualize to understand the importance of anything real. Everything gets dismissed and just thrown onto the pile right exactly like you could look at a like some people look at a protest. Is like you like look at those angry people on the street just messing up my nice lawn and break. Let's look at the context and why they're protesting history of you know. Sure it's but. I think that that really opened my eyes and i'm glad that i took that class. That your your it gave you that intellectual piece where you're like i don't get this shit it's stupid and then you like but this is what was happening in theater and in the world and where he was at the time and yeah oh totally. It was a breaks reaction. Yes totally it was. It was like a breakdown of like. What is the meaning of theater. Like you know and and i became absolutely obsessed with it. There's this one called that time. That i staged it just just like completely. It's they're all somewhat insane. I played an end game. I played The the old woman those like ham. And i forget them. I'm gonna get roasted by my theater. Friends right lizzy caplan. And she's talking Well that's interesting. That nowhere. I pulled becker and it's actually the thing did did it. Start to frame comedy for you. I mean like it must have had some influence on something. I i i mean. I studied a lot of like. I said it hitchcock for a semester but becky really stuck with me. I think it was just like thinking. Outside of the box was something that kind of stuck with me and not like. I love mainstream comedy. Get me wrong. it's my favorite. I love it i love. I'm just constantly trying to get my mother to watch something she's netflix. She's never seen glow she's sound like. Listen my biggest. Accomplishment was a peyton manning commercial. I hate when they do that because they but you know. It's everything's changed so much so they they don't know how to to sort of like Contextualized your pain totally. 'cause it's like is it on nbc. Abc no cbs. Now then what. Then what is it. Right sam beckett. That's what it is structured network Yeah yeah i. I think A theater school. I feel like Studying both mainstream and kind of the degrades greats Was just good for me to like an expanded my palate. 'cause i had kind of you know mostly done just comedy in high school and there's only so much that high scher realize a high school teacher can really handle right. What's appropriate and what and what a kid can handle. Yeah so it was good to just really kind of challenge vizquel but during that whole process it was like i was doing marching band. Play the trombone. I was at a scab end. And i mean it was primetime live. Yeah did you do that in high school too. Yeah really yeah. And you're like little fan nerd and theater nerd. Yeah it's a you can imagine you're very effective nerdy very expressive nurse. You're putting yourself out there. No out of the ways that you know a mainstream people like the fuck trombone. Dues play man. Play the place here in the intermission. Remember intermission fucked up. I don't remember anything. Do even stay for the second part of the play. The whole bit trying to sell a flower me. She said it was an banana. It wasn't a banana bro. star right. he's cool so but you're doing this sketch stuff so you're not to work with people's and then you just go to new york. After that after college went to new york went straight to new york moved in with a friend from college Worked at columbia university for year as an assistant to a professor of weird job kind of professor of comparative literature ruined. Yeah and everybody's a teacher columbia. Yeah i got the job through. It was a temp job in this woman. Guy chakraborty spivak. Who's a very impressive professor. She went through fifty assistance and six months. Like nobody likes to work for. And i was like doing extra work on. Snl you weren't during the time. Yeah and and like. I just wanted to. I wanted to audition. And i wanted to be in theater and then i got this temp job. She was yelling at me for whatever reason and i was like. Why are you being so mean to me into it. You know what. Kim i like you talk back to me. You keep me in You talk three to me. I would like to offer a full-time job and i like. Oh my god yeah that'd be a punching bag so i said yes because it was like you know thirty five thousand dollars a year. Whatever like did you keep you on it you She kept telling me. But i would just talk back just clapback and like oh. There's the movie okay. Ups jerk meets a professor and the atf. on to them I it was just a it was a really interesting interesting job. Because i would just like didn't care what she thought because i know Interested in but that's what she loved. Did you learn anything. Could you go to classes or anything else. I read i read. I read some books. She really liked kurt vonnegut. So i read a bunch of provocative posts and Finally bluebeard and the i She i was helping coordinate. This guy dada. I don't know if you're familiar with takata here. But like he's like He came over. And i kind of learned already. Forgotten about data is a guy named data. Yeah there's no doubt it is. But i didn't know there was a data guy data daddy yeah yeah dada daddy by at the time. I don't remember now. But i definitely love to all the philosophical like thought i don't know. Yeah it's it's so it's so it's just all goes back to like you know becca opening your mind and stuff. I'm like this is so fucking stupid. And i'm like you know they have academia. Yeah and that's where stuff lives. It's the only place that keeps it alive. Really any of that stuff. If it wasn't for academia no one will give a fuck about beckett anywhere totally sort of sad now every once in a while they can sort of convinced to celebrities to do waiting for no. It's just the this again. But maybe i'm being cynical. It's so how did you get extra work. Snl oh man so ma. You're not gonna believe this. A cousin ninety cousin cousins aunts Who's a screenwriter out here. He's he's genius Yeah brian and he His aunt so not my amp. His mom's sister she worked for lorne michaels and Like i got in to do extra work on the list. Yeah yeah they were like. Can you my my friends my cousin. So i got on the list and then i so i did it the amount of times you had to join the union and then at the time it was after us it was like a thousand bucks to join and i couldn't afford it dead until fat moment but like it was a it was just wild because it was my dream was my whole dream must be. Yeah and i before you did comedy or anything else. This was like the beginning. This is the right when i landed. I was doing this that. I couldn't believe that player in the studio on the set doing the table. Yeah like sitting in the. Yeah i like those like a screening room type places that they would just keep us and like who who is the cast then it was like Ratio sands chris. Parnell would about You know will ferrell. Was he gone or i think he might have. I think he he. And like terry molly shannon probably just left and what about falun balance there. Yeah but i think really get to meet too many people to watch them. And and you see. Be like horatio. sanz would hang out. And so we. I would too. Yeah yeah so right when you got you got into classes over there. Yeah yeah that. Was that when it was in the old porno theater. Yeah on twenty second street. Yeah yes so. I started like. I think the theater started in ninety six or ninety eight. Maybe nine just they were at solo arts and then two thousand and when i got there with twenty second street walsh who lived upstairs did live upstairs right a place on live bait on twenty third street and he was coming there because he was dating one of the girls there. Yeah yeah yeah that was like a. It was a happening bar for a minute. Right right right. Yeah twenty-third in that area by the flatiron building. Kind of i couldn't get a job at the sister. place was it. Was the the diner in union square. Do you remember that place. All the hot models from earlier called. I forget place. Yeah and there was all models that worked there and i applied to work there after columbia and they literally look down. You should go to So rude you can only imagine though being marching band theater nerd. yes something. I was still your trombone by. I learned how to shuck oysters. There at live bait all right so you got the job okay. So you're doing you're doing the snl. You're doing that who's teaching. It was andy. Sikanda sean conroy. Billy merritt Like amy was still doing like one off classes. And ian roberts was still doing like an occasional class here or there. No matt walsh He was probably teaching too. I didn't know. I never never. I was so afraid of matt. Besser i i still i can never Never get over my fear of him. he's intense. there's something. I can see how it'd be frightening right twenty two year old. You're like god. I don't wanna fuck up in front of you and like you. I would do those late night. Shows are they came again on stage. And i'd be like oh god i'm gonna fuck it up and besser. Yeah there was like these shows. We would just kind of like you know yeah. They're everybody on stage off stage like It was it was it was a thrill but it was so that whole process. You just hanging we. I mean i go do show stand up shows that you have this fundamental resentment against these well adjusted people that can work as a group and the audiences you know no matter how many people try to hang all comedy on me or me being part of it. I resented it. I was at luna yelling. Because i couldn't get work elsewhere. I was watching you. Is that where. I made a different somehow. Part of the story that was in the you know you you were there. Yeah todd berry and allen. Those guys and i would do like. I like my. I finally like thirty for thirty or sixty and sixty one of those. I was like when i did that. I was just like i've made it a standup. Yeah like just doing a bit like. I don't know if i was a standup. I was a bit right. I remember those. Yeah those are fun. It was the point. That's what was the name of the guy that used to organizes. He had like a kind of a good name. I can't here's a comic. Remember his name or we. Do you were trying standup. Did stand up for a minute. And it's just because i was trying to figure out where i belonged in the world you don't there's no i mean it's like coming to hollywood. You're like i'm going to be an actor and then like this is really crazy else. Do that so i tried it. I like i i My friend college friend worked for berry cat so like he would put me on a couple of gigs and like I went i went out with That's a that's a messy whole of office to work. Indeed i i open for like bobby kelly once and al madrigal like i would. This was not my crowd guitar. Comedy did probably those are sweet guys there so yes. They're so sweet and they were so funny and we had a great game. The comics you got to that. I mean bobby. Kelly monster but he's a sweet monster. Very sweet sweetly know they were. They were really nice to me and i. It's just like they could tell like that was a funny person but i just like it was not translating to. Yeah for stand up. So i just i. Don't i do this anymore. But improbably is like connecting with being sketch was really connecting with me rebecca. I met her in two thousand and six so so you were just bouncing around for years in new york. Yeah i improv worked at the pit. Or you yeah. I remember that point. Yeah and people's improv theater I did Work with here's two names. Who was both yeah worked or westbound not a forty five after was times Swim syndrome around that time. I know i know that was two thousand. Wh what but i so the names ninety s she took me under her wing and Like she was doing a solo show class so she needed directors for her social class so And it was an amazing class of people like including eisenberg was in this like class at least lamp in la. And so it was just after your show so we it was kind of like a template for like oh solo show could be developed and developed mine with me So like so i would work with people stories. The real stories help them develop into shows or like they want to character merging. Indeed yes yeah uh-huh and And then i would you know then start to put together their actual tiller shows they do that for I lean kelly niki farside. There's a couple others that was sort of a format. Yeah that was sort of a way to present oneself at the time. Indeed i mean listen i had to solo shows. Why did you talked to a guy in denver who's about to do one at the fringe and it's like as a form you know. I don't know i you know i would back on on the what i've done in how i've done it and i i don't know. Do you know what i mean. I'm still a comic by you. Know the idea of the show the solo show gave you a little more Latitude to you know. But you know when when you're a comic in your heart and soul. There's some party going no. You can't be funny all the way through mr drama guy. Now you cry. We'll billion having a tom. Hanks moments like you know there was like you know it was something like you know what you can't manage. You can't handle the you know. Yeah i hear you. But but i did them and jerusalem syndrome was i look back on it and it's it's such a mock format which i did a one woman show because he had directed so many. It was hilarious. That's very pharmacy. And you should do a bit about a guy doing a one man show. Have you seen that. After i saw my com again. I can't can do. The movement weird intentional stays movements of a guy who's not used to being on stage in any had to really make decisions genius. So so that's what started you directing directed in college. I did Right the The beckett indeed. I did the female version of the odd couple in college which is show. I love that show. What really motivated me. Was that the professor at the time. Said well why would they do it with women. I how is that funny. And i was just like the fire was really pissed me off. Teachers can teach you voluntarily. Yes indeed sir ed. Yeah so i had kind of been. I mean how. I got to where i am today. It's kind of like it. I've been doing for a long time but didn't necessarily no that. It was a thing that you could do because everyone told me it was too hard to break in to direct a film director film director anything. But it's sure. But i mean but it seems like i think you and rebecca were sort of ahead of the curve in the podcasting. Oh yeah we ha. We did. Our apple sisters podcasts. Now yeah so. 'cause that's it seems to me that that in terms of landing in the comedy world in in in in earnest it was with that right Let's see i mean so when we created the apple sisters in two thousand and Six or two thousand seven and We went to the montreal comedy festival and that was like kind of our big break and that was in two thousand eight and this was just a two year right three of us. Three of you daljit acton away. Yeah we're in nineteen forties comedy radio. Show so i love the marx brothers. Came up with that. And we love to sing and dance. Sarah's comes from broadway family. Her grandmother's ruby keeler from forty second street and Sarah rebecca were the only female teachers and people kept telling us like the at the pa- now like you guys do fuck you just because the women that were like actually thinking funny. Pinup calendar comedy pinup calendar and rebecca. Sign was all right. We're gonna work together forever. And i say came up with this bit and we did a new show every month so we would write three brand new songs. Choreographed them write comedy. Bits like your classic pie in the face like so. It was almost like a period piece variety. Show yeah but it was satirical so we are very much talk about a lot of like the war going on because you know. Bush was president at the time and as like characters. Yeah i mean there's a war going on sir running for president a great kitchen but so there's three of us was candy. Corn cd apple. I play cora apple the dumb one. I just love salmon Sailors and Candy is the she's got a husband named cheryl who's a man fighting in the war sees at are closer lesbian character and then Cd apple who's like the Jesus loving in denial conservative up our group. So we have we have. We've had a lot of fun over the years like just poking fun at politics through the nineteen forties lens. So you did montreal. Yeah i mean what. What would that yield. I mean what were you offered a show or did you take meetings as a group and yeah no. You did ages managers from that. Yes yeah we signed with team principato young after that because we were like the only unrepresented group who are the only females in the sketch comedy like block. Are you still with principato. No not anymore but no thanks change. Mark it's so funny. Because i knew peter principato and they were all starting out and i didn't realize it you know it's just the nature of the thing everybody starts out in whatever they're doing in show business and they just eventually evolved in some make some doubt how he's such a dick to him and those guys like you know who the fuck of these people with these suits and just i remember. There was a point where peter like you know made the shift from being a suit guy manager to leather jacket. Guys like leather jacket guy. Now but then they went onto the of big career know when i knew him. This who's this guy was such a dick. I gotta careful of that stuff. I think it's all right mark. You're doing eight people love yo exactly who you are i bet you. He remembers me as a dick. There are some people that have those memories. peter principle. I don't think he has a lot of power to hurt me now but Moving that thing you said about my jagged. Forgive him never forgive. Principato projects for that kid but So that's where you got the agent. You got going. Yeah and i. That's the i tested for saturday. Night live because i was doing my solo show called the engagement and so i was doing like I was doing a couple of weird. Like can you characters impression stuff like that My favorite impression was judy. Garland was afraid of bears stupid. Do yeah it was really fun. I was Hello i'm judy. Judy garland sitting in front of your microphone laughing. Where they're bringing mustaches. The bear mustache babar. song. I'll get all the way through to learn. I did i got. I got all the way through. I got to. I did the got the call to do like the Comic strap had to go. Show up in the middle of the coin. Call i yeah. I i i and they They were like are like. I remember going to show like one girls throwing up in the bathroom kill. Watkins is actually i know. No we edition together michaela and So i mean. That's that's when i like i met her. We were on. The and i was like obsessed with her when i started. Bits and It's a weird. It's a really hard thing that story. I yeah it's it's kind of crazy like our paths. Were like right there. And then she went up there at night like rant to la so she got on the show. For what would you always. I am one year right. And then you went where i went to l. a. like it broke broke me. It broke my heart rejection. Because i went. You know i did that. And then you go you test the age and like i was getting very encouraging you know emails from the writers there but then i didn't get it and it just like broke. It broke me. I was broken. Yeah i show business. Yeah and i. I literally was like i'm leaving new york. There's nothing left for. And what about rebecca. We all decided to go to la together. Yeah yeah we. We came to l. a. Together thank god. Was that movie. let's all right. I know it's just a movie. Pitching session columbia. Professor still my favorite. Okay if she has that accent you got it. yeah You know she's from Colonialized india so yeah the best movie So you get out here and everything the skies open. La welcomes you. I'm working at the city. Bakery in brentwood. My bosses eighteen years old. I'm almost thirty. It was a rocky start. But i was determined to make it mark. Look it you did it. Yeah but rebecca came in. Sarah actually went to las vegas to do jersey boys so we were performing between l. a. We're doing our live shows in la. In las vegas. I was in the movie the movie. Right sara sara was actually pregnant and so she said to the castro doctor. My sister's which you know at this point we're basically sisters but they my sister's can do the show because they've seen it so many times and i was like i it which was wild jersey. Boys is that rudy vallee one. Then frankie valli franken was rudy vallee. Pretty is an older actor from probably the forties shannon one thousand nine hundred yes. So let's see discography. Nineteen twenty nine. I record all the way through to nineteen seventy six. I mean they were contemporaries. I guess kinda sorta. He's an old timer. Yeah but frankie. Valli sheriff yeah. Yeah frankie valli took the picture valley. Yeah those wild clint eastwood. That was crazy directed the movies. I didn't know that. Yeah house clinton i mean he's like the coolest guy ever and I mean this was shortly after the chair situation so that was a little. Politics aren't great but Indeed but Yeah no he. He let me improvise Onset which was a crater for him. I i don't do that. I don't know. I don't make your film. No but he liked it. But that that movie just stuck basically to the broadway shows script throat But just to entertain him in india. But you do to takes we we. You know you don't do that much. It's very quiet set. He's very just like efficient. Just give one little adjustment but really like trust the actors the way when you're talking to me i don't like to at myself anymore. Gimme really yeah. He's he's like when. I look at myself a see this old guy but i don't feel you know. Yeah yeah but then you also make jokes about You know my improv. Being like rated g. rated pg and then rated x. Sounds like you got a real Dynamic yeah he was listen. I mean he's an actor so you imagine that he knows the cool thing about him is he knows and like well. We'll come to you because legend. Because i'm sure he's very very intimidated. Somebody'll where some people will close themselves off right. It's intimidating to approach them. He wasn't that that's nice. So when did you start that apple. Podcast right yeah. Well i think we started in two thousand ten radio play kind of thing. Yeah yeah we would take. Our old live shows are scripted. Shows and we would write new podcasts about them so we would do like you must have been one of the first ones. Doing radio theatre podcast. Yeah yeah i mean. There was the thrilling adventure hour. They were doing stuff. I think right intended but in la so we eventually cross paths. But we were doing. Like i didn't realize how kind of revel non-revolutionary forgive me because has been around but like how different it was to be doing scripted stuff on. Yeah yeah it was the wild west san. I mean that we started in two thousand nine and there were podcasts around but it wasn't a popular medium so you can do whatever you wanted and there's only a couple that i knew of doing that scripted stuff. Yeah straight up. Radio plays in a way some of them and that became a very popular mod later. I don't know when that happened when it really started to take off. I wake why are we didn't continuous. Because like there was like i don't know some structure stuff but then like we didn't make any money doing that didn't and they were They were Paying their engineers. But like. I don't think that much and like then when they were like. You guys have to figure this out on your own where like we have no idea how to make a living. Yeah once we had done it for like a year doing all these brand new scripted shows. We were kinda like what like what are we doing. We're just kind of like we had a great We had a really great this ship and then it just got it once. They kind of handed over to us. You're like us fucking do it. How do you get traction. How handed over to you in which sense it in order to monetize it. No i i don't they. They were just going to take away. They were like we don't. We can't do your studio time anymore. Like you know what i mean like. Yeah it was like the infrastructure. They were taking. What are you going to do. What do you do it at your house. That kind of thing so they kick the building. But i think that was when like some you know like when they're probably being bought by somebody sure by scripts scrap sam. Yeah we were. That was that was. It was fun. Because you didn't have to do props costumes book stage but there was but but but all of the recording and tashjian producing with all being done for us. Oh you in order for you to keep doing. It would add a figure out. Find somebody to do that. And yeah she's just went away. It just went away. That's right it was kind of sad and then you're just doing the acting. Yeah back to acting mark then you get glow. Yeah the get glow the thing. That definitely completely changed my life. Because i was about to actually go Runny podcast network seriously. Rebecca's a package for glow. Yes yeah so. We auditioned together. So jackson The casting director the legendary casting garage dairies. So i we met in new york. She saw the apple sisters. A fan of the apples listeners. Brought me into lake. Scott pilgrim brought me in very very great in other ones. I've known since she was like a child. She's the. I've spend like she's Buds with allison jones. Like they kind of liked. Those two really have changed my life for sure Another casting director and So yeah jen rebecca. I and we thought we didn't have a chance. Were gingy cohen. Show like a glow which we both knew and mike. This is never going to happen. And so i was gonna get like the time on is kind of crazy. 'cause i was going to get plane. I was going. Do the audition get on a plane in new york except for the job and then become executive producer and So we get we get the audition we she's like you can improvise. Just do some characters and stuff so we did the apple sisters. We did a couple of other bits that we kind of come up with because like we drove back and forth to vegas for years. Rebecca we have so many show ideas. We have so many characters that we do because sarah low third apple sister lives in vegas so we recognize would drive to las vegas so during those i during those like hours and hours and hours on the road the two of us we came up with like we had a business together called the nerds of a feather or resolve had feather passengers. We worked at the same bar together. We We like we sold a pilot together. We have done so much shit because of that car. Ride that with this came along. It was just like an extension of just like us pink car. Five hours yeah. That's great so it's a great story. Incubator yeah indeed and so we Yeah we we auditioned and then we got a call back. And i was like hilarious universe so i had to move my plane for my interview. A week cus network. The big podcast break. Would what network. Is that how they doing now. It's full circle but Yeah i i like the people that work there so we got. We did call back which they didn't give us a script. It was liz carlee gingy. They're just come up with some characters so we're like okay so each came up with some wrestling characters We did some old ladies and Even though they didn't ask for it but Then they just sat and talked about our story and like we had how we met and like. We had children three months apart and like like. We've just done everything together. They wanted real friends who were also a comic duo and that was custom. Made for you guys truly. But we really isn't. Th we salsa del coming down from like like she's so fit i was like you don't have a chance baby like nine months ago. Not good luck so we were like fuck it you know. Is this kind of one of those auditions. We really through caution to the wind And then i went to have coffee the next day with molly pray there and i decided to turn my phone off because i'm going to be in the moment. I haven't seen him so long. We were roommates together. She goes to the bathroom decide. Turn my phone on. And there's like forty minutes that was that we got glow great. It's nice when it's all once. Yes yeah a life changing experience for sure. It was great time. We have man. It was a great time we had and it's so fucked up that we couldn't finish it. Yeah i really liked your message about the movie. I really on social media live. This is fucking movie man like what we have been that big a deal now what it could do. They have like netflix could have done it. I don't know what budgetary things but it was already. They re written a fucking season most of it So like the writing wouldn't have been that big a deal and you know in terms of like it. It just seemed like he could have been done. It would have been a nice thing to do. It would've been really nice but it really was an issue of i do. It's not that. I have sympathy. I understand why they couldn't do it. They're just holding onto the all those locations and it was in indefinable and we. We could barely do it now. I mean right. You know the protocols just shifted with that kind of show I mean there's no way to do it without daily testing and wasn't there and they couldn't wait. Oh yeah that was. That was a tough call to get and like the midst of all the shit you know. Yeah so how did you get this elisa. Thing how how 'cause this is like the first feature film. Yeah so. I started directing television dj. I started directing before. Like i drove couple of youtube red series. I director jeff. Like sketches. And i did all of ritual blooms like music videos and and like like. You've been really busy with it. Yeah yeah before. Before glow belong. I was just doing these like i did. A web series called junketeers for comedy central regio hyperlink then I'd done those pilots and they both got picked up for series and it was kinda one of those things that motivated me that this might be what i should be doing right right and then of course glow was like no you direct. No no no no no. They just like to do so back in acting. Yeah you however though. I didn't believe it like. I just didn't believe that like anything. I didn't trust acting like i. Don't trust acting gigs. I always feel so fleeting and you don't have any power. No agency indians. Yes even though like it was the greatest ex like acne of my life But i was just like. I don't know what's going to happen after this. I need some lake insurances. And so actually i got my first. Dj gig during. I didn't one close. Let me off an episode to direct this Amazon show which was amazing. Because they didn't have to do that. Very nice and So they salaries so that's good good all around. But then after directing television. I was directed. My first feature was a documentary called nerd corps rising that i did in two thousand and eight and I made it With nagin farside. We made it. We followed this guy mc frontal who wrapped dungeons and dragons and magic the gathering were discovering this world and two thousand five two thousand six and we raised money There was pre kickstarter so we were just like asking people to pay pal us money. And we will put them the credits always on the forefront mark edge and that went to south by southwest in two thousand eight. So that's kind of like where i started Put you on. Yeah putting in terms of like i. I didn't go to film school. But this is kind of like my. I learned operated camera. I look at do sound. I'd always been tinkering. Wanted to get back to a feature. So when this chemo along that it was actually getting made which you know is a miracle that any movie gets made this movie and she's been trying to make it for a long time. I read it i liked. I knew what to do with it. it was with universal and It got pushed by three months in chicago that i got pushed three months Interest shot in la. Okay so it was. She had good on paper for a long time. I had the script. Yes she had the script for a long time because it was based on the story that she told him stand up and so she you know it it it dating a guy that turned out to be a complete fraud. Exactly yeah i had to pitch you know to her. And the producers and universal. And i got the job so your vision for the for to make a board i. The first meeting was Just all talking about story characters gonna look and then the second meeting. I put together a little luck book. Yeah head casting ideas and so you know the a lot of the references. Were you know those old thrillers. And yeah and trusted you from the gecko. Yeah yeah now we we a great working relationship and she's like worker. Yeah yeah i mean. I would have notes and i would send them to her and then she would turn around the script and like three days while she was on the road doing stand work so such a hard worker and You know i I you know came together so fast. Because i originally i was hired probably a month for they were gonna start shooting and then it got pushed so we got some time to develop the script and like get shit together but luckily i had worked on a lot of independent from independent film. Lundy stuff's over. I call upon a lot of good people Including my ad through langer who Worked with the Duplex brother so he really gets that. Like sure low-budget. Yeah fast pace. That win could make a movie and a couple of weeks. yes drew's actually lynn's with lindsay d. Yeah right. That's why i was I obviously hugely admired everything. She didn't probably model of my whole career after what she did when she wanted to make a movie she'd make a movie. I know it's so inspiring. Like just do it like. What are you waiting for because we know that if you go to the studio take forever so this movie felt very much in that spirit. It was just like let's do it. Yeah you know called in every favor possible and it was popular right. I mean listen. I it was like this one point. Two million dollar movie at universal got eight. We finished it right at the top of the pandemic so i finished Editing in february twenty twenty and then had to do all the rest of the post stuff when the pandemic refers starting. We just like invent like we were like. Let's try this thing called zoom and try to like two eighty are But they didn't get released until after or a few months ago right. Yeah a few months ago. When i kind of when we started this film we kinda thought it was gonna be. You know this. The sat by southwest in theaters and then netflix kind of came in. They really got behind. It like put on billboards in times square unbelievable. Yeah it's like. I just all those you to the like it could. It might not have gone that way. If you've gone festivals yeah it probably distributor and like just but yeah yeah. They made a big deal because there well she does she have a deal there or or because they they've they've given a lot of opportunities. Yeah yeah yeah so. They showed like five special. It was the perfect place to go ultimately because it would have ended up at a streamer anyway and so the fact that i saw. She's like number three on netflix. That was trippy. And i was scared out of my mind because this you know you see i kind of went in thinking like okay great. I'll be like you know like all my friends like they. All they do the festivals and they slowly get to their movie and like it was just like i out of the gate your director. Now you do features. This is what we think of you. It was scary. Is it's still scary. It is still scary. Have you gotten offers and stuff. Yeah yeah it's been great. It's been great and you know it still. It's still always going to be hard to make a movie. No matter what I had been a attached to a big sony feature before it got elisas movie and it fell through but that attachment to that big movies. The thing that got me allies this movie. So everything's like surface purpose. Obviously and like everything's a learning lesson and the glow helped my directing career the movies out my tv directing career. Ever know. but it's working out. It's all right thanks mark. This is such a nice thing for you to invite me. I always wondered when it was going to happen. If it was ever going to happen it happened. It means so much and my father-in-law listens to this podcast. Religiously so what's up jay. Okay well good. I'm glad it was great. I i have to say when he calls cami mark talked about your will be today. Thank you for that now. He's gonna know a lot about you. Jimmy gave would good on paper. The movie with elisa who has anger that she directed is now streaming on netflix. And don't forget it can happen so easily. You're out with your friends or co-workers you're put back a few drinks few becomes a few too many. It's time to go for a moment. You think. I'm going to call her ride on calling a ride but hey wait a minute. Then you think you're a good driver. You live nearby you can make it home. Okay yeah well. What are the odds. You'll get pulled over and even so what's the worst that could happen right. You'll lose your license right. We're on you lose your job. Maybe you totally your car you could you kill someone could kill yourself. Could it only takes one mistake to change your life or someone else's forever or end it play it safe and plan ahead to get a ride drive sober or get pulled over. Here's some sad guitar. Charlie watts Um mark Lives monkey the fonda cat angels everywhere

charlie melanoma keith kimmy gatewood maryland new york delaware Charlie dave mark mayor charlie fucking dean charmer goggin dawn duo aladdin theater Melanoma melanoma Watts allen mike
Pod To Pluto: EP19 - A Day Waiting For Podot

Pod To Pluto

22:05 min | 11 months ago

Pod To Pluto: EP19 - A Day Waiting For Podot

"Cokie aradio presents final talk the full. He's the uk space agency engineering cardinal quality. Six my five year mission to explore the ten square meters. I'm trapped inside g caputo guidance which the lights if the still long absolute zero by pizza richard out of episode nineteen dame waiting although just a moment to moment shutting down just a great big bushy checked in there i this yes hi rush me levels of glitch forgotten me. Why don't you. how could i ever forget you. Y'all stirs my drink. Vici- my chips the kebab in mine kebab shop with all the food comparisons. I'm hungry you contact hungry your machine and you realize how long hba being lost had a bucket of chicken. These interminable taught just tell me what's going on. Why of the engines power dow. let's go. we're almost bad. We're waiting for punchy. Ram plus pub zero. Your older brother who's dropping by some of your trademark hijinks playing catch with the naked exhaust. Perhaps maybe just a good old fashioned oxygen tracing unit wedgie. Multiple wonderful at all is is zero. The relay hold its copy to meet us. And if we don't rendezvous with it this time or never ever get back home food packs fuel post waivers lianzhong pods zero for all of them to life fully seriously episode dramatic. But why is that so important. Now we nearly dad one must push because we have now to supply related moms when all capital than soon. All your have to eat just the wallpaper paste. And i'm pretty sure that posses specically fall eighteen months ago. Pulse zero has everything. We'd where absolutely realize pod. Sierra was taking settling. why didn't they just send another one the quota but it wouldn't they it'd time fully reach pluto no before long gosh officiation because it has the new sips for the oxygen filtration unit. Yes i'm afraid that as -pletely wedged itself so why has it been. Why didn't they meet as like the other relay. Units has tried quite a few times actually portable thing must be all talk it out spin keeping it then while the think about space right. Is that the further you get out. All there is is slow to space out here now. I know. I probably why they call it. Space in the first place. So not computed for the cupboard inside the matchbox or account stomach. Skip to the point. Well pulse zeros. V trying to catch up this for so long now that we've now reached the point where we need it all these with solta that 'age trajectory apex so if we don't catch it right here it will just keep going into deep space and if it keeps coming into deep space than i die quite compelling narrative setup as memphis did the i'd just jump into my emergency spacesuit with the re breda then we gonna strike saluto everything we need that show lay so close i can literally see it in the distance through the window is right there i can see it now. The most ships opening it than usual wouldn't make that fall. Why when we s got stuck on the stupid mission. We have more than enough to make it to mas then. Mas was supposed to give us everything else. We'd need for the outbound journey. Correct thou between one another. We don't technically have enough fuel. I can see the fuel display will go but we still have the reserves. Even without the new cells they'd be in a civilised push Yes you're quite right. But paul giraud auto has something we need even more and what pray tell is that but it'll fall brigade to open fuel reserves shocking house. We ended up without enough fuel to even get to pluto. This is uk essay. Thinkings ruin throw. Well it's probably because we how exactly the most diligent economical. Uk essay employees. Well i'm more of an indentured seven to this point the issue here now on the show. You're about to tell me why this is all my fault somehow is because all wasteful jake's wasteful japes. Don't get it wrong on two thirds of all the wasteful japes. We've had it together as more treasured memories odd to pot told you that never officially hoped you felt it too so these treasured memories. What were they times. Well we could have stopped ourselves for being so reckless hedonistic. The time told me could have saved ourselves drift. I'd leave without toward ultimate goal. But they also the time so be decided throw caution into space a drain precious resources to satisfy our own outlawry desires present for any of this hedonism that time we took detore she could see if stanley kubrick writes about jupiter settling. Do i knew i was right about that. Salem yes i do. All share a map of the time which could another detail so he could be sure that other the clock. Wash and dry about saturn. Do you mind not points. Impenetrable wax fiction nails. I'd that selfie just had to take with uranus behind to uranus uranus vice ice stopped is yes it posh time while it would have passed in any case yes but also rapidly so it just causes more time and fuel not mentioned that. Let paul paul zero pitting all of the soda system tried to follow our tradition and missing us each time as i read the tricky because as call she did all of which means so. We've now got his one remaining. Shot left to rendezvous with pulse zero. Why did you break the tracking beacon. Reckless abandon not tomorrow young guy today forever apart from me though especially if this fuel food all done any to play by their stinking rules you could show them gemina. So how long have. I got to show them exactly less lauren. How at that she lives of all we have right here right now in the moment. Finish cup of wallpaper paste before it gets cold. Am i dying. Nah may todd account on like this. That's what you think this is. We're all die. At our special elation and tribunal so how long have i got left to leave if pods. Zero doesn't arrive today about two weeks. Then why we stressing. Sandwiches was all the live life in the moment rubbish abou- shortly to pass the time while we wait right so we wait. We wait okay. Go and how long will it be the way. Yes certainly as long as to be since we talked sri part this is also meaningless. Just tell me how long will be waiting austria from zero. It should be here today. does not so bad. That was two weeks ago unless he doesn't com that he'll come tomorrow all day after tomorrow the hash just two weeks. This is boring asas spirit of along. Now what should we do well. Shit cited watch the capable drift joy. The gentle breath atmosphere together. I really didn't realize how much shut gotten use to. All those constant beeps of the computer machinery. Until you shut down. It's been the overriding singular soundtrack of my life. For the past three years silence left behind is starting to get a little bit. This isn't i. Don't have this. So i probably know getting the fully fact. My high hospitals can still hill votes. But there's no sound in space colin misconception. Actually it's only the screen got here. It's face bonds. If you have excellent lighthouse filters i me that you could actually hit oldham and take joy of the celestial bodies in that glorious destiny the you know what i mean surely not clue teddy. What i turned off my house fills that might be an idea of what is likely. Get your irregular shaped skull. Let's not bother. I'd only have to recalibrate the celtics. Volume fast touchy my high hospitals. Why could do it. I'm a great engine. Oh you're a terrible today. A pod shut up. I'm a great engineer. And i can prove it. How psychology get. It's constantly over estimated their abilities but they still need to reassure themselves forests being proven that the more people say that good at something worse they actually are shaw. I'm the good yes. I'm afraid you're a terrible engineer. So who proved this vote should go on about stolen time cold. The dunning kruger effect. Well while i attempt to process this depressing realization. Let's change the subject to something more optimistic like what we'll do when we get to the planet when we've completed all little pot to blue arch surprised he's taken us. This long to talk about the subject is more lauder. No have checked in a while. They're always changing their minds. People is fickle. When it comes to pluto's all the rest can be planet poor old pluto. They argue over it like. It's nobody's business. Poll it'll tyke stuck out here on. Its own kombi doing anything for his confidence. Your fish spent more time dealing with something more potent like the great spanish. Rach wall arguing of the status of iraq billions of miles away. That's the sort of meaningless trivia that matters to the everyday human on the street is some people upon matt pot and so people remain so chevy coil. Mom i'm sure should. How song viewpoint about whole this shock. No don't get started about pluto. She was livid when she found out. I was coming here. She still thinks it was a waste of taxpayers money. When the u. cake of mambo pluto we used to own an empire now always go is a single rocky planet on the edge of the solar system with an empty uninhabited research station. According to her pluto doesn't deserve to have lights let alone have them turned all times. I wonder if people on earth get so angry because of all that pressure on their heads. How do you mean well. it's down is. It is a blue upside down. How is it upside down. Just have to look at it from a distance and you could say someone is all ended but we russell japes probably don't do anything for the road. Egotistical abuse meant cats. You elaborate on how he worked this out. Cold hard. risha won't show you my headaches. Powerpoint presentation you know. Think i'll just take your word for it. Any word from zero yet should just kate through excited arriving today. One downside to that. Which is the message. Were sent four months ago. Theoretic waiting is so bad. Here's your chance to socialize. I'd be three off. His party's recently. And i totally on stale to the normal this taking so much less time to run these days and how everyone by jotted janet. John's john esther gone of vladimir. Still busy doing nothing. Catching whispers gareth loss on. Throw a hairball. You'll be amazed size of the upside down. It's all gemina called heaven. Up-or-down says anyone augusta me. Nope asya recall a disappointing. I think that courage him dead when they let off. I should probably date them on that sometime while you've got lots of time right now. Oh to torah. Nothing's it'd be done for now beginning to come round to that myself. Say all about pot window it's transparent properties. Allow you to see into the great anti faucets outside Just passing time gas spending three years traveling to the edge of a solar system just to turn off a light bulb makes about as much sense as anything else. I might have ended up doing if what stayed on sure. I would have found some other equally meaningless way to just pass the time back there too and so here we are now. Collective species conquered space created artificial life colonized planets can travel across billions of miles of interstellar space. What do we use it old fall. We use it to just pass the time so this place at this moment in time all humankind is whether we like it or not we blessed in that we to happen to know the true answer in the immense confusion one thing alone is clear we awaiting pods zero to come here could see it that way. Yes all the radar. oh jiro. Jiro age here the distance. I guess i bet go put the junk mail. Sign out not slowing down. And that's bad right idea who was just restarted. The so we can get out of his todd. Abrams should be slowing down. Because he's going to dr this right. It's very slightly almost plus likely. I'm spending three years old. Oh jc zero might have gone a little bit wrong. And it's sprayed box after all. That's what happens when you don't give us pods. Human dumped to keep us company. Just open communication channel. Everyone's paper family physician. Dr paul use massive astle berry european psychological. Trae tacoma down easy this time not this time out will q. Right it's gone crazy. That's what each you really have a dirty of you. That's what you'll hear from channel lightbulb. Your job is to take me from turning into that what we do you mind. I don't want you the time. Deepal others say is is exactly the most appropriate and proper time to panic. Always is that okay. So while we're both being real here this entire journey never ever even the slightest into data despite battalion. You dated you sign. Is that time. I pretended there was an incentive. All heidi the fridge to new hall pods. He said it was the only way to show. That's because i always had everything under complete control at everything i've ever thought was just to alleviate mind breaking all the time difference. This time i being a serious as my inbuilt painted gaslight the check out to jemima once again. I don't want you to. But i will lead you to jump to your emergency spacesuit quickly out. Please discuss part. I'm scared that. I actually call now broncos zero. You should brace yourself survey. Slight gentle giant mega. Maybe run out of fuel. Just not worth yoga yesterday now this well at least we don't john rich's imminent six professions. Do something you think about it. Host of new show us in january. Twenty twenty we walk.

Cokie aradio five year ten square meters pizza richard paul giraud Uk paul paul zero two weeks gemina eighteen months stanley kubrick Sierra matt pot memphis three years russell japes jake Salem risha todd
073 The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint Exupery

Book Club with Julia and Victoria

53:14 min | 3 months ago

073 The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint Exupery

"And i'm million. To fund fax to has an endless array of pop culture acknowledge eaten overall. I would say something about the way. She writes really concrete and immediate. Who is the fan. Why did he miss costume. Why did he drop his weird like pew like t's some juicy about the creation of this. This is again what victoria by. Not like. what is important about these people. What story there we can tell ourselves to walk into book club with julia and victoria. We are to lifelong friends since high school. Who read a book and talk about it each episode this is a podcast where we explore new perspectives in these books as a tool for colonel ann community growth. This week we are reading the little prince by antoine. They signed a super three. I hope i pronounced that right and there will be spoilers though. This book has been out for a very very long time. But if you're a person who doesn't like to know about the book before they read it. You have officially been warned and we are so excited to welcome our guest to the podcast this week. Sofia syntax luck fiene additional cash. And so happy to be here with you. Thanks for having me. We're so stoked. This is via syntactical. artist activists researcher an educator. You may remember sophia from reading their blog. Too sexy for contacts listening to them host. The anger podcasts are watching the former burlesque as the tattooed. Tapper in clever linguist specializing in less clouding and fetish performance. Sofia's talents extend beyond the stage. They're also an accomplished glass blower an photographer to connect to them on social media samples of their work. You can go to link dot tree slash sophia syntax. That's two xs and with a link in the show are you all that's herreid to xs. 'cause my syntax is extremely effective. But not three x's because it's not pornographic it's made a lot. I'm like no no no no no no harm my brands. Sorry sorry to disappoint severe. This is a really exciting jillian. i'd have gone. This is the first guest that wasn't like already a friend of ours like in real life in. This is the first like instagram on the podcast. We also listened to your show this evening. A collaboration within excited to have for awhile all she make wedge thank you. I was so excited when you reach out to me. Because i thought wow these are the first people who i don't know who are listening to my show. I've really thought it was just like my like my grandma. My cousin zik so it was a big moment for me so excited that we can enter lap her our internet worlds. And it's funny that you mentioned the books. Because i was just listening to your episode today about syria and i. That's actually how i found you. Guys originally was the review had done about their their of twelve characters. Who i didn't care about any but we're we're not gonna talk about how come back. It's we definitely will do. We'll do a follow up. We're gonna talk about something. I actually like today. Which is the little prince. I am so oh my gosh so excited this is. This is probably my favorite book. Ever amazing periods. And also as you mentioned in my bil- which thank you victoria degree job. Making me sound awesome so i am initially ave. I grew up speaking gibb way. My grandfather spoke jeb way with me at home and so it was something that was always around. And then when. I went to michigan state university i was able to study with helen. Roy to take formerly ojibway like as a foreign language which was super cool. that's awesome. Yeah it was so cool. I felt really like validated. Like wow okay you know. If a top ten state university is teaching my indigenous language must be like a legitimate academic subject. Yeah and funny enough. That team Some of those people are who worked on. The translation of this book will not excuse at michigan state. Now i'm crossing my streams there from university of michigan but the translation team one of the people that worked on this martin nude in and then my mentor from when i was at michigan state. Rachel butson did the beautiful floral initiative ojibway cover art and that was another. I was like. Oh my god. I think that's and i think that might have been the post i shared on instagram. Yeah i so. I was like i can't believe it or not. Only my favorite book being translated into my indigenous language. Just like whoa holy cow. I can't believe this is happening. Within like i know belay who did the art and i was just yeah. It was really really great and then reading the book. I have to admit you know we were talking a little bit before we got started about. When you read a book. Maybe the author name. You don't know the name because you've read it a certain way or there certain words you've only ever read ever heard the pronounce. There were definitely some way worse than this translation reading. I'm like. I am not sure that i got that right but hopefully i didn't embarrass my ancestors to it so you also mentioned before we were really hit record that you own this book in multiple different translations now away also Assuming english at some point what other languages have you collected. Okay so i. Of course english was the first one i got. My mom introduced me to this book. When i was really young. I was sort of ubiquitous with my life. Ever you know growing up. I was like all this book was always around and it was. What inspired me to learn. French will that and gambit from the x men. But i wanted to learn french because the original book was written in french cross and so i started taking french in high school. I went on and university. I minored in french. So wow yeah. All of its like so obsessive all because of this frigging buck and so. That's what acted with my life. My mom so proud so i've got it infringe of course and then it was moved onto spanish then. Two years ago. I got a fulbright. And that was really transformative to my research to my academic career just my whole life. My whole my whole gig kind of out of rooted i went to i went to europe and then as i was traveling around europe. I was just like you know what every place i go. I'm gonna get a copy of the go because it just seemed like you know like why wouldn't actually the little prince has been translated. I think it's four hundred forty five language dialects. I picked one up in bulgarian romanian turkish. Greek there was another one too but it's escaping in the moment. But yeah i so. I've got this book hobbies and especially like with the hungarian version. I don't speak hungarian. I slept through it just to give it a try successful. But i know this story in a now and it's really. It's really cool to see the different translations and how they talk about the different themes in the book that's handled as this book is sort of grown with me because you know of course. I got the original in english. Which is a native speaker of english and seen how these themes that i love are translated into the romance languages like french or spanish and then seen now as an adult how they're translated into my indigenous language of knobby. My one which by the way and this one is the the name of our indigenous language in our indigenous language. Our tribe is initially ave. But you might also know us you might also remember us as chippewa or the ojibway sue all three names for the same tribe. You can use them interchangeably off. That's so awesome. I know of that idea of like a souvenir that is not only like super meaningful but also kind of like tracks year journeys while you're on your fulbright I love books in travel language. It's like this is why our internet friendship has grown. So i had not read this book one of those that. I'm like how have not made it here yet. Was like classic sitting on the shelf. This and a wrinkle in time are like the two big children's books that i haven't read yet but it was great to have an excuse like i needed one but an excuse to sit down and read this one. I have beautiful coffee from the library. That i was excited to get. It's the two thousand edition. It was translated by richard howard. So it'll look a little intro in the front about his experience translating the book and kind of like notes about how like translation. I don't know if it's interesting. How his perspective on translation was like even though like the original work is the same as our society continues to change into the as our language like shifts morphs over time like it was time to bring another translation linked to the twenty first century. So found that fascinating. Yeah i think a lot of the themes resonated with me which will get more into I really wish. I had this in my life when i was younger. Like i wish i would have picked it up as a child really curious what young me would've thought because i am always kind of been that person who wanted to be at the next stage of life. The guy spent probably the ages of six to eleven wanting to be h twelve. I don't know why but twelve was very important to me. And i thought great things. We're gonna happen. He just which they did. My family moved from michigan california. How did i know like the biggest move of my life was going to happen at each show. But yes this whole book about like what it means to be a grownup what needs to be child. And how you can keep that like childhood wondering your dollars. Yeah and definitely like when i read it as a kid. It was more straightforward like you. Don't this is the story. This is a little prance. He's moving through the planet. And this is what he's doing blah blah blah. And now as an adult. I definitely i see it more as like an allegory. It has shifted a bit. Like i'm no longer the little prince. I'm the pilot now which is like so so dismal this so dismal abysmal I'm the adult now in my by plan that breaks down on. It was the same thing for me. Like i feel like i kind of knew i mean. This book is everywhere and it's like so international universally beloved. I see references to it all the time. And i kind of do the basics of the little prince story but i had no idea about the frame story of the narrator. Have no idea took me completely by surprise. And that's the part like you were saying like reading this as an adult. That's the part i latched onto. And i immediately was like. This is a war book. I had no context for it beforehand. But i was like this is a dude. He was fighting in a war. His plane crashed in the desert. And he's like hallucinating now. He's working through some things. I'm a military veteran. And like then when i came back from the military and i was reading this book. Yeah i definitely homelands got ptsd immediately. I knew what it was and it reminded me a bit of the hobbit to in terms of lake. The tone and someone who's been through war who it has lost a lot of people and is searching for this kind of escapism. And like trying to find the essentials of human nature and comfort and inner childhood and kind of worship of nature like there's so many parallels that i was like this feels very similar. I know i know who this guy is. And it really resonated with me and i was like so fascinated by because i think part of the reason i never read. It was because i was like. Oh well it's just like an allegorical book about a little boy who hops around planets didn't sound that exciting to me but now that i've read it i'm like oh there's so many layers and the fact that it's a tragedy in a children's book whole baby. Yeah i absolutely loved it. And then i looked at the author later and i was right and i was like my instincts are honed. I can find a wounded. Man drove a mile away all right. You won't do the who. Who is antoine. john as you perry. I love that you decide. His name. The author great. Thanks taken that one. You're welcome so our author. He was born in one thousand nine hundred in leon france to an aristocratic family though they were quite impoverished. I'm reading this all from the encyclopedia britannica. So if you wanna come at me with your own every time we do like a really well known author of like someone's gonna come out me someday being like you've missed this very important detail way. That's why we have podcast listeners. To help us fill in the gags huckabee. Yeah we're all learning all sturdy together exactly so. He began studying architecture at a finer at school in paris when he was younger to all but he was conscripted to the french airforce in nineteen twenty one and became a pilot so throughout the later. Nineteen twenty help. Establish airmail routes oliver. North west africa the south atlantic and south america. We all started writing during this time. His first novel was published in nineteen twenty nine throughout the nineteen thirties. He was test pilot for air france as well as a reporter and continued to write and publish including wind sand and stars. That's the english title of that book and That received the us national book award in nineteen thirty nine. I found that particularly interesting because the national book award is awarded. I believe the criteria is books written majority published in the us like they can be foreign authors and they can be from other languages with indistinct english version. So this book was distinct enough. It wasn't just a translation anyways that's aside now about national book awards. He fled to the us in nineteen forty with his wife and they lived for three years in new york and during this time he wrote the little prince and it was published. He did though return to europe to fly with his french squadron in the mediterranean cedar of the war and about a year later in nineteen forty four. He went on a reconnaissance mission over france. Never returned The wreckage of his flight was found six years later near marseille in pretty tragic end. Wow on mean cut fitting Kind of sadly fitting the end of the little brand. Yeah yeah premonitions but what was to come. But the little friends was originally published in both french and english. It was published in the us. Because that's what. He was currently living in. Because france was being occupied by nazis. It wasn't published in france until after the war in nineteen forty six so initially the Critics kind of like. What is this book is for. Children is a for adults based some like actually true life experiences so he he also as a pilot crashed into the desert in libya and he obviously survived About the tail but face dehydration and hallucination Insane experience That might have very likely been some fodder for the story in this interesting his wife. Her name Swallow essentially have some like erratic behavior according to encyclopedia britannica. I don't know who decided. She was erratic biting ways. This stories that she was similar to that of the prince's rose in the little prince and later she published an autobiography call. The tail rose. That was kind of like kind of a nod to look. Yes i am. The rose gotta gotta own the term right. I mean get your money girl. It is like right. When she was behaving radically she was upset that her husband was conscripted into a war. I'd like died a tragic plane crash. How it radic that. She wasn't happy that her husband died for capital islam. Oh no that's actually more than i ever knew about this author. So thank you for all my love of the book i never. It's just one of those. Don't meet your heroes things. I was like turns out to be. You know a domestic abuser. i'm going to have. I'm going to have to scrap most of my childhood most of my travel abroad. So let me just not no. I don't know about it. I don't have to cancel him. I'm going to summarize it real quick so that we can get into the the juicy stuff so this is the story of. It's not necessarily the story of a little prince. The frame story of this book is that there's a pilot who crashes in the sahara desert while he's there he thinks about his early childhood drying career and this little boy shows up from another planet planet asteroid b six one two who demands a drying of a sheep and they spend while the pilot is fixing his plane over the course of like a week the prince slowly over time reveals his story of his journey to the pilot and so he tells the story of his home planet. How there's a rose in a glass case. Three volcanoes one of which is dormant and. They're only by the height of his knees. He can watch the sunset as many times a day as he needs to. Depending on how sad he is and he has a bow fab tree infestation. Where every single day. He has to dig them out of the ground or they will take over his planet and break it into pieces. For some reason he sets off on a journey and he hops around to different planets and meets all these adults who just like are in their own world center really but not great people and he gets increasingly frustrated with adulthood ending comes to earth and he befriends a fox. Who reminds him to cherish end. Keep close the things in the people that he loves. He sort of despairs of the adult world and that's where he meets the pilot and then a few days later he asks his friend poisonous snake to bite him so that he can travel back to his planet without his body and the pilot is sad asks the readers to look for him in the sahara. So it is absolutely devastating book about your inner child and the things that things that adults make can sort of break the world so yeah. That's that this podcast is made possible by our fantastic Members you can support the show but becoming a member on five me a coffee dot com slash club with. Jv starting at three dollars per month but members can connect with fellow listeners. Help us select books for future episodes. Unlock exclusive posts messages. Get early discounted access to future events and more and if you wanna take your support to the next level you can join the tisza tour which starts at five dollars per month. The byzantine is all about autism. Are you optimistic person looking for community a possible narrative verse person looking for resources or an ally hoping to learn more from active person members of this tear free access to julius autism related articles on medium. The best part of any book club decide. The books is the community so join us in a growing community of book nerds by becoming a member of the book club today. Follow the link in our show notes or go to buy me a coffee dot com slash book club with. Jv to join the party. That's buy me a coffee dot com slash book club with javy. We'll see you there. It feels like this book has sort of universal appeal in a way. I haven't met a single person who was like nope the little prince hated. It didn't mean anything to me. There seems to be the sort of essential search for your inner child and essential kind of humanness that we're all looking for some kind of inner truth and kind of a dissatisfaction with the adult world that seems to transcend language and culture Fairly universally and so. We want to talk about that today. Yeah definitely i agree. The as this story moves from one language to another the core meaning the league the poor themes of the story. Stay the same. But every translation offers a different perspective. And like way of thinking that i think contributes to greater shared understanding like when i look at the translation in english and then when compared to like. What's in french. And then when i take it compared to mission on me mile and i can sort of. See this like this similar fundamental. Idea like transpose. In three different ways so like four okay. So one of my favorite parts of the story is when the little prince visits with the fox before leaving. So of course you know. He's met the fox and the the whole the whole shebang with having the fox be tamed. Die love that whole interaction between the little prince and the fox. You've got to come at the same time every day. You know i. Actually there was a point when i was living in detroit and there was this feral cat that i was trying to tame and i actually like i was like all right. I'm gonna do it. Just like the little prince. The fox take momma kitty her food at two o'clock every day and i'm just gonna sit it out there. I'm gonna pop the tom. I'm just gonna watch. And then every day. I'm going to move a little bit closer until finally the cat. You know like four months later. Finally let me. I was like yes. Little prince life hack sold my life yet again actually. You haven't let me yet down down yet antoine thank. You haven't let me down yet. So so when he visits with the fox before leaving we can see in the translations lamb. specifically i'm looking at the french versus the english where the separation how separation and secrets are viewed in each language. French and english like both in the same like indo european families so the the differences are more subtle than what we see in the initial amount translation. So excuse me while. I just like linguistic nerd out for your on When we moved between the differences between french and english we see in the french in the french version. He says i do deliver. Non was simone secret. La placing on avar being kid. Cool listen invisible. Paul ages and it's very similar to this english translation of goodbye said the fox and now here it is my secret. Various simple secret. It is only with the heart that one can see rightly what is essential is invisible to the eye. Okay so if you churn that french through google translate it's gonna be pretty similar and even like you can see it when you're looking at it like the way. The language is structured the syntax the grammar. It's very similar but when we take that same sentiment and we move it into a language of another family in this case. We're talking about in the a mile win. An interjection becomes a verb phrase and a promise to be together again and the metaphors get changed. Completely it's not the same. There isn't a comparison between scene with one's heart or with ones is instead it's a reminder that by letting go of what is material we can understand emotions and ideas so the literal translation of the same phrase which i'm going to read to you initially abby. My one is closer to. I will see you again. So he says gigawatt amon who he g either meany russian known geary win them on. Godolphin winnipeg nag me. The dash g we nishida linden at p. Wounding giza get together. Show in bala wahdan aji dig mama. We've ye she any negawatts so is closer to. I will see you again. Said the fox now. I will tell you what. I've been hiding which is simple. You will understand when you let go of everything that the unseen is most important so we don't get cutesy little high hard metaphor but we don't need that because culturally in oj culture. We don't like that's not the the audience that we're pandering to. That's not what we're trying to appeal to. So i think that is like sort of. Would we see the magic of the little prince encapsulated in this translation and just that by listening to him by listening to the little prince by listening to this inner child we learn to listen better to ourselves and all the things around us that have these secrets to share. Whether that'd be the fox in the field or you know the little feral cat in your neighborhood we just got open it up and look around. So that's definitely my favorite part of the book. And i think a really good example of some of the the strengths in translation. Yeah you know. 'cause i prefer to think of it in strength like it's not that one language is better suited to the story than another. It's just what parts of the stories get highlighted based on the the words that we're using to tell it that just made my heart so happy. I would like to tendon entire lecture. I appreciate you taking the time to like think gets ruined like like how the nuances of these different translations even just beginning with that translation into job way of goodbye being like i will see you again. I just to me. That's even more beautiful like in the context of the story because like a sense of loss and there's a lot of conversations about losing or not appreciating certain things in life and for the fox. Not just goodbye. This is it which can have more finality in an english. To say i will see you again Right and you know an ojibway in that reflects waiver indigenous way of thinking because we believe once we meet somebody. There is no goodbye. We always know that person. They're always part of our circle. And whether i see you again tomorrow or in another lifetime like you're always going to be part of my circle like our energies have exchanged. So you know you can really see that like in that translation. Example pulled out. Yeah i have another question for you. What i was kind of getting from your description of like in the english and french there. We distinguish between seeing with our eyes and seeing with our heart but in the translation they didn't Make that distinction. Is that like a part of the language or the culture that like seeing with your eyes and with your heart is the same thing that was what. My brain immediately jumped. But i'm curious if that is all accurate question. That is a good question. And i'm going to answer this of my sphere of knowledge. Of course you know. I can't speak for the translators ray and oh my gosh. If any of them are listening they hear major bay. Hopefully my ancestors unashamed man. That's all i have to say. I'm just. I'm doing my best okay. Yeah so And that's that's the hard thing for people who might not be familiar with this. Initiative amount went to dive into a book filled with these. Like long lines you ojibway agglutinate language. So it means. It's like think of a beaded necklace. That has lots of little pieces on it and you can move the beads around and it's still the same necklace. And it doesn't really matter what order the beezer on also is poly synthetic so like the order. You can change order around and you can do that like the fact that you can't. It's not like fixed word. Order like english is so for somebody who's not familiar with initial vanowen. Who's not familiar with a way to dive into this book. I think it'd be really intimidating And it's important to note that the spelling system used in this book is the fiero double vowel system. And this is the most common writing system that we use in the southern great lakes region. And it's a folk fanatic system. You know the way. I spell even like my. My name is different than like. If i go to minnesota i spell it like dimmer number dialect. So there's a lot of food today so you know we're not even within the same tribe. They're different clinton during clan. There's different areas of the drive. So it's not. It's not all the same. So i have to say that but circling back to your original question. I do think that this reflects this one. We talk about the hartson. The is in english and french. And we don't have that direct translation in ojibway doesn't doesn't frame the sentiment in that way it's more about letting go material things And i think that is very reflective of an indigenous way of thinking especially in initial culturally. I will be doing an episode of this on my paired. Cast in the future shamelessly on spotify. I i will be doing a podcast on the seven grandfathers teachings in the future hopefully but just a real basic level of the seven grandfather teachings in gibb way culture are basically like how we look at the world and one of those teachings is love and like doing everything from a point of law treating things with respect and i think that we see as the little prince goes through each of these worlds like the adults kind of kind of blow him off taken seriously. He asked questions. They don't really answer him and i think in this oj translation that i pulled out. It's more like you have to understand that these unseen things are important. Just because it's not right in your face just not because it's not obvious it doesn't mean that it's not important and i think that's a we see that more reflected in language than we in the ojibway version than we do in the english and french. But that's my highly unpack nicole. Take everyone answer to the coach. It is they definitely do change the metaphors from language to language. Yeah i feel like we could talk about metaphors for a solid three more hours. But i my main question for the group is like and this could be the first time you read it or as you've read it over time like what did this book sort of initially bring up a new. Was there like a thing. That adult said was really important but doesn't matter at all or maybe some creative part of you that got shut down that you're trying to bring out later in life kind of what. What does this book. What's the first thing that brings out of you like that. You really resonate with over me. Answ that quote about what is essential is invisible. Is that has been and always been whether it's in french or it's an english Less so it's it's easier. It's more difficult to cross stitch. The initial i was quite long so you can't really put that on a pillow but you don't even the initial not mallon version like it's still slaps for me. I think that is like the the key takeaway and if you know if parisian tour shops are to be believed that is also the key takeaway. 'cause i saw i got so many postcards and just like trinkets and caskey's and crab france because i was like. Oh yes little he is he has taken off here but now then i came back to the united states and now he's taken off here and the new movie on netflix. Which i recommend people. Who'd like this book and not ever watch any movie made off of this book because they're all terrible. I know we all say the bot every book of every story ever made. But they're really bad okay. I'm assuming difficult to make this into a movie now. It's too beloved in a short animation. They just read the book behind mike. I it's all about your imagination. Yeah the only acceptable version for me is if they did a reading with lavar burton yet and they do the picture reading rainbow like. That's it that's it for me. That's the only acceptable thing. But that's just me. I'm appearance your risk. Obviously how how about you victoria. This these questions. Hit deep julia. I'm sorry what did it bring up. reading therapy holy cow. The first thing. I thought it was just like my current situation with work has been very busy at. I mean anyone has essentially more than to this. Podcast has probably heard me say things online on you. Take care of myself. Laura like i'm creating boundaries in my live in like three weeks later i really should take care of myself more progress but just as the little princess going to these planets meeting these adults and you're just like this particular y'all live in this beautiful universe of all these different places you can be doing so many different things you could be talking to this really interesting being just like showed up on your planet asking very good questions and it's like i'm too busy for you. I'm too busy for you so as an adult reader. I'm like i need to be reminded like it's not about the numbers that you calculating where the power you think you'd have that no one even recognizes and even with the lamp lighter like realizing like when it's time to stop to question the rules to question why things have to be the way. They are some of the biggest mental breakthroughs. I've had recently have been around that idea like well. Why does it have to be this way Y y doing it. That way and i guess it was really beautiful to think about if if we can connect more if i can connect more by child like what kind of what kind of better questions can i be asking myself like. What creativity can i pull on myself by connecting to to child and not just the facade of being a doll attack chopped up all the to do things. This week i did. They adult thing right. I also love your note of you. Want your memoir to be called clarinets. Don't play jazz and other lies. I believe sorry. That's your note for you to read. But i love that so much i wanted. I thought the world needed to know your julia when you Asked like what are some creative parts of you. That might have been shut down amira kid. I had approached a music teacher in my life when i was playing clarinet and asked the cake. Iv jazz like i just wanna do more music and the answer. I heard clarinets. Don't play jazz thinking back knowing this person and the musician they are. It wasn't like you incapable of doing that. On the instrument it was more like the style of jazz band. We have like people. Don't play clarinets but never continue the conversation. And so i never learned jazz. And i went to college studying music and i had to do some improv classes in the whole time. Just kicking myself mike. Why did i believe that lie. That like clarinets can't do this. Like some of my favorite clarinetist out there are ones who are amazing improv and like can blend the classical jazz influences into their work. Band is just crushing. Dreams left and right. I had something similar happened to me. I started on clarinet. And i wanted to switch to percussion and my mom said no. I had to do a year of the clarinet improve. I was serious about ban. Because of course it sucked. You had to get up early. Take the earlier bus. All that rigmarole and she said if i stuck it out for a year then i could take percussion and then when i did. I went to change in the band. Teacher said it's impossible to switch from clarinet. Percussion you're too far behind after a year of mourning ban glasses. You missed it. You're never going to catch up. Oh and i believe this. Yeah and i. And so. I just clear and and i just never picked up music again anyway. Moving on for me does book. We'll like i said. I didn't realize the frame story narrator. Was there and the introduction to this book like threw me for a loop. I was so. I was lowered by. I just thought it was the most incredible introduction to a book like ever written and i was so surprised by it because this could just be a book about a little prince. You know sort of an allegorical study a little prints hopping around on different planets learning about different people and sort of critiquing them being like wool. Why does it have to be that way. But it's also on the outside of that. It's an adult who is remembering how his childhood creativity was crushed the fact that he used his drying of an elephant eaten by boa constrictor to test adults later on in his life to see like. Hey can we be real with each other or and every single adult that he ever met said it was a hat. And he's like well i can't show you my real self. Then finally he meets the little prince who like needs him to be creative and he tries things out and you know the first sheep isn't right on the second sheep isn't right and he has to try it again and then he's like well. I can't draw sheets while put it in a box on the little prince. Like perfect is exactly what i want and the fact that it frames the story within this feeling of crushed dreams and lost innocence and just like something in the world has been lost an i need to go find it again. And i think that's the problem with the world as a whole. I think that's why all these bigger things are happening it because we broke something in ourselves and we need to go find it again. And then you've got the story of the little prince from that perspective completely changed the game for me. I was like so emotional reading it. Because i sort of it felt like we got the narrators interpretation of the little prince and so you could see how ridiculous everything wise and that he was sort of discovering. How ridiculous everything was with the prince and the description of what a bank is i. I had to put the book down. He's like well. How do you own it as like you put it in a bank. And he's like what's a bank and how like. How do you do that. And he's like well you put it in a box and you lock it and i was like holy shit to stand up for a minute. Was like a cat that it's real. That is the most absurd thing. I've ever heard in my life and we end. Yeah thanks is like the paragon of steadfastness and safety and importance. You know like how banking is important and as you just putting things at a box things that you don't own to begin with incredible. Yeah i i like man i could go on and on and on but it felt like such a powerful reminder to adults of like what is the thing that you've lost look at how ridiculous all of this is like. Look ridiculous banks are what is a bank. Why do you trust it. What what is that in yourself. And i guess the main thing i got from it was like this sense of reassurance almost feeling seen validated of like. Yeah yeah my my deepest part of myself thinks that the adult world is ridiculous too but i feel like i have to pretend that it makes sense. You know that's like all adulting is right as you're pretending at being an adult with everyone else who's pretending to be an adult and we all pretend it makes sense and to have someone say it doesn't like such a relief. I want the little princess. Take on crypto. Yeah anything about bitcoin. Bro i'm sure he's got some thoughts. He's got well he's got questions for sure. Yes exactly you i would. I would love that. We need. We need a sequel. We need a sequel. The little prince going around to all these new you know in one coin planet to them just have him meet elon. Musk and oh hear him to shreds right. I don't i do not think they would be prepared for the realness. That is the little prince asking a question and never letting go no but what is an nf tea but i can just download it and own it on my computer. Now why do i need to pay seven thousand dollars for it but what does it do. One value doesn't have and you would want this because oh my god a excellent question so that yeah. That was kind of my the main thing that i drew and it just i feel so passionate i feel like i need to go. Write a few essays about the introduction to this book. I need to. I need to get it out of my system. 'cause i just i can't fit it all here but sort of our final question. I guess the story of the little prince's journey is quite enough for a good children's book. So why is it important that the narrator is there as a character and why is it told from his perspective. That's good question. Yeah why do we care. Board assists hit white man something. I'm constantly asking myself when it comes to the narrators of my books but let me try and unpack beth Well i guess we need him because it makes the story relatable because he's just a vehicle for which the story to happen. I guess yeah i don't. It is kinda strange with the story is called the little prince. I think maybe It needs to be the the author or the narrator the pilot. whatever. I think it needs to be the pilot because it allows us as the reader to ask these questions about the little prince. Maybe that's why they did it that way. Because if it's sorta like been for has no clothes like if we start with a little prince who says that we have no clothes like. Where do we go from there. And maybe the story is somewhat more about this journey. That's happening within the pilot of like. Wow you're right. The emperor does have no clothes. Why are we acting like he's not naked. Eight year old child. I like that. I agree it. It's kind of like this entry point as the reader. I think we also like my. My thought was that you could have done very similar thing with this book. But had just kind of have an unnamed narrator we could have known less about the narrator and still had like this perspective on the little princes that makes sense like some sort of the narration could have told us some things like oh. Isn't it odd that he would ask this thing. But i think it really helps give the child adult checks position and it's almost reminds me of like toy story when you read it as only watched it as a kid does a store you love about the toys and then when you wash it as a doll you like you love the andy like the whole arc of the movies. I'm when he went to college. I saw like we realized we identify with that. Yeah and i think it kind of gives you like. Maybe that's why such a lasting classic tubes give something to the children and they're like planted travel in like sticks and fox's cool and then to the adult radar you like. Here's a very specific person that you're supposed to identify with Story yeah kinda comes full circle. Yeah he he. Yeah he gives you away in like he kind of your hand. There's another book that. I love that i would recommend people who like the little prince. It's called illusions by richard bach. And the i think the subtitle the subtitle is Illusions reluctant messiah. And it's another story about way guys in byplanes. I don't know why this is the theme of my childhood favourite books. But it's like richard bach is. This guy just goes around and he flies into fields and gives rides the people and then he means donald shimoda. Who is this all knowing messiah. Who has decided he doesn't wanna be a messiah anymore and then it's like about their journey and the truths and revelations that they come to and it's a. It's a cute book. It's easy reading a nice summer. Read and i think if people enjoy little prince that would probably also enjoy illusion than he hasn't read it. Go for a treat yourself all right so some books while. I've already mentioned one books that i would recommend if you like this book. The hobbit by ronald rule token. Yeah that one. Like a children's book but also not really children's book inspired by experiences in war and real hatred of capitalism and technology common theme and then another one that's not a children's book at all but has a similar theme of let questioning everything after a major world war The play waiting for gatto by samuel beckett. I it's you know it's more along the lines of nothing matters than along the lines of like there is something the matters just everything that's going on right now doesn't so it's a little more nihilistic but similar vein i think for me samaya recommendation for those who enjoyed the little prince. One book that came to mind was the alchemist by polokwane. very similar. like boy goes on a journey. Learns a lot of life lessons and kind of a big allegory thing happening. I remember enjoyed that when i read in college. But it's been hot minute for me to remember any more details than that. Another children's books. I thought would be great. Trade would be the velveteen rabbit by marjorie williams because it just also has that like berry like oh oh this means a lot in this hits me in my heart as an adult and a remember like booklets as a kid okay and currently obsessed this way up season two just launched. This is a comedy written and created by ashland bean. She is an irish comic. It's streaming on hulu. It's about Woman n her immediate circle who she comes out of rehab for something. I don't remember the premise of the show. But she's she's not doing great and then you sort of watch her. Try to navigate everything with keeping up this wall of humor basically. So it's terribly funny and like really gonna cut you cut you to the quick in your emotions and then i just watched the trailer for hall. Z's upcoming album slash film so she's got an album dropping on august third. And then i saw that she was doing like a film to go along with it and i thought it was going to be like a lemony situation where it's like visual album. But no this is a legit horror film. That is going to be airing in theaters. Shot on i. Max the whole theme of the film and album is about her experience with pregnancy and childbirth. And but it set in. It's like a period piece of like wigs in crazy makeup in these big course addresses things and it looks incredible. Yeah and then. also. I've been. I wrote this down and this is so stupid but i've been spending a lot of time laying on my floor and it's been oddly helpful. I feel like i do some of my best thinking down there. So i would encourage you to try it sir. Yesterday i went to a movie theater for the first time in like over a year and half. I can't tell you the last year saw before the pandemic. But i did see yesterday. Black widow with scarlett johansson and florence. Pugh and i liked it. It was fun. I mean it's a marvel action flick like you kinda know what you're getting into but the fact that it was just like bad ass women the entire time with like a whole like sister story. I don't know. Of course. I cried at the end. I love sisters. I wish i had a sister. We watch out of the theater. My partner He's like did you tear up at. The end was like yeah. He's like we're wishing you had your own sister. stop it. He knows me well. Obviously i'm currently obsessed with myself. And i'm having a hydro summer getting vaccinated waxed so right now. I actually you know my podcast is angry. Indian girl radio podcast and we are on hiatus. I have gone berry picking for the summer. So i will be returning in september to do episodes i just i was getting behind on my production and i was like. I didn't have time for anything other other that that was fun so it was like all right. Capitalism can wait currently. What i'm doing is now that. I don't have to lay plug my podcasts. All the time. I've been listening to some projects at my other. Friends have started. And my current obsession is the camp creep podcast which is hosted by lauren and tisch and they basically are like to hoti goth counselors camp counselors and they just dish about horror stuff like they haven't first episodes about the crypt keeper and i don't want to give anything away but it's really q- and i'm not really a horrible person but i'm friends with lauren. So i wanted to check it out. And i think they do a really good job of making it. Accessible to fans are all across the spectrum whether you're super-duper duper in horror or you're just kind of a casual dave browser like me. Also subaru says. I love the triad of the your wrong about podcasts maintenance phase podcasts and you are good so it's like sarah marshall and michael hobbs. Do you're wrong about and then michael also does a podcast with aubrey gordon. About health and fitness like myths. They busted myths on maintenance phase than the you are good is like were they talk about. It's their marshall and alex seed and they talk about like daddy issues in shows and i don't know i just like this. This has been my little trifecta of media consumption for the last month. I'm just going through their back catalogs. And yeah i love the. I'm the same way if i find good podcast Or a hosted i enjoy. I'm like what are all the things you're doing on like that. I meet their friends Apples and all the things that you do. It's great time. Gotta become part of friend group. Yeah yeah that's my current obsession and the duo lingo owl. He haunts me. They need to make a horror. Movie about the dueling right. Like what why you doing nothing. I know you're not studying portuguese like whoa bro. I'll do it. I'll do it sometimes. I even go. And i do lesson already did just because like i just want to keep my streak and i'm like am i even learning at this point. I'm just making the owl happy. It's abusive relationship. Abusive relationship with the duo. Lingo our sophia. Thank you so much for joining us. This is so much fun. Yes i had a blast. Thanks for having me you know. And like i said there's not a word for good by an ojibway so i was just gonna say bama p which means until later. So obama peeve victoria by my julia. See you next time. Thanks for joining us. Spread the subset of book club of julia victorian chime in with your own thoughts recommendations on instagram at club with j. d. or through the contact form on our website. Www dot vocal with jd dot com or website is also where you can find show notes for this episode which include links to any of the recommendations we gave other tippett's we mentioned. Make sure to follow us on spotify apple podcasts. Or whatever you're currently listening and leave us a five star review on apple while you're there. This episode was co hosted and produced by myself. Victoria brick along julia causing our music is composed by greg brick. Our logo was designed by gabby. Dublin and rebecca guessing is our project manager. We'll catch you all on our next episode happy reading.

fox france victoria antoine colonel ann instagram Rachel butson Sofia michigan gibb europe North west africa julia radic united states richard howard Tapper gigawatt amon Godolphin winnipeg nishida linden
078 Ayoade on Top by Richard Ayoade

Book Club with Julia and Victoria

55:35 min | Last week

078 Ayoade on Top by Richard Ayoade

"Is this is. This is the main thing i got from. It was like this sense of feeling seen and validated. The why does it have to be this way. This book was placed in my hand fourth. This moment insight bowl learned a lot written quotes already. He and my book that we just pull out some of the big things that we see in the difference. I apologize if most contribution has came mom rubbing alternative feminine mystique per to your book lamb with julia and victoria. We are to lifelong friends. Who read a book and talking about it. Each episode this is a podcast where we explore new perspectives and use books as a tool for personal and community growth. This week boy. We are reading on top by richard a nonfiction book in which a comedian gives like a mock academic analysis of a very bad movie starring. Gwyneth paltrow about flight attendants and if that sounds like the weirdest premise for a book. Ever don't worry it is. There might be some spoilers but honestly you know just you just gotta be along for the ride with this one so this is a bucks that was sitting on our like shelf of like important books in our house. I don't know like this is some core reading that i put together. The julia put together which i had not read but she was like this. This book is my life it was written for me. It is so important. But i was always a little intimidated. Because like she was always describing is so And afraid i wouldn't like it or get it which to be fair like i don't know about films and film histories so like i was like. Oh you're right. I probably won't and it's like julia's like brain in a book. She probably doesn't wanna subjected to a lot of scrutiny. So i just won't read it. But i absolutely loved it and i thought it was really fine the mock seriousness of the film criticism which is kind of like a cousin of literary criticism. Which is right at my alley like even though i didn't know necessarily like what is typical and like film analysis like it's not totally different from like how we analyze books. Yeah and other stuff. And i had. Julius annotated copies out of luck julie had already told me was referencing. The second time i read through it. I made sure i was like oh victoria not gonna know what that is and i wrote it in the march i- goodness that's that makes a lot of sense. I think he did a pretty good job. Thank you because there wasn't any that i was like well. There's a couple that i was like well. Yeah i know that. But i was like well. Maybe julia was. Just you know writing that. I like i. I gave you the benefit of the doubt. What surprised me. The most was actually had heard of this film before. When i read i read reading the first part of this book and i was just flipping to see like how much of it was his essay writing. And how much was like i saw. There was an index in the back. Start reading the index which is hilarious. And i noticed roblo and i was like wait. What rob lowe's in those and for those who are longtime listening to this podcast for the entire year. Twenty twenty one. I have been watching the west wing. No i haven't been watching it multiple times. It's literally taking me nine months now to only get taxes and five and i've been listening to the west wing weekly which is a show that a podcast. That joshua malina does anyways i was like. Oh there's like rob lowe and this is a west connection. I'm intrigued. And then i see. Joshua malina is in the index of ira on top. So as a way wait so then i look of the imdb. And i realize jasmine lane was in this film. And i'm like oh my gosh. This is the film that he was like kind of mortified to talk about. Once it got brought up on the podcast that he had done a film that rob lowe was also and then he had explained like well. We were in any scenes together. We never film together and how this or the film was supposed to come out into one but with nine eleven a comedy about airlines didn't seem right. You still got delayed and redone so anyway. That's my little like west wing. Infatuated heart was very excited to have that connection and that like also drew me in and then of course i was like for and we have to watch this movie. And he's like but you just told me it was a terrible movie. Why would we watch it. And i'm like because we have to. It was as ridiculous as i thought. But it was fun to have the actual image of the film in my head as i was reading the rest of the the book. Yeah when you said you had heard of it. Because i never heard of the film and i have no intention of watching. It sounds awful. I was just blown away that you had some connection to it. I was like anyone has heard of this movie. This is so wild. I mean even the fact that richard ioana is like a filmmaker himself and he watched this. Yeah i'm like did. He was on like a weird like netflix recommended. Binged was at like. Was he seeking out terrible movies. But i mean it's like a stacked cast of laughs. It's like shocking. How bad this group of like. It's like you know they were working with a really rough script. If this many big name actors like couldn't make this movie work but it didn't. He addressed in the book. How like mark ruffalo thought. It was a sex comedy. Like a seventy six comedy. And i need to go find that interview with mark ruffalo. Who's like wait a second. So i imagine the original cut that was supposed to come out. Pre nine eleven was much raunchier and was like a totally different story. Almost the the reedit is what was probably. Wasn't that great to begin with. But i imagined the reedit is what made it really really bad right. I know i when. I read that portion Another original edit of the movie. I'm like where is it. i want to see it. I wanna know. Yeah that would be. That would be fun. Also as the love interest of the movie. I thought it was going to be like a sex comedy. Like how did he did. He shoot that he's not like that didn't go anywhere and that wasn't included because there are no sexy their zero sex scenes which means that like i imagine. Multiple of these men were paid to get naked. Did never showed on camera Yourself through with when victoria told me that she enjoyed this book at. She thought it was funny. I breathed a huge sigh of relief. Because like because it was like so so specific to me and so personal i was like really with special interests like that that i hold. Hold them very close to my chest. Because i've been burned many times before you know where like people really. This is the weirdest thing i've ever seen. Why do you like this or like someone makes fun of it. And they don't know that i like it. I'm like oh my god thank god. I didn't say that. I like that thing so when i introduced people to things that are this close to me identified a lot of caveats on them. I want to lower the bar so low that you're just like pleasantly surprised when it makes any sense to you you know. That's kind of my goal. You know 'cause i'm trying to protect myself from your what i assume is like. Oh you're not gonna this when like really. I should've known like a lot of the topics in this book. The only overlap. You don't have is the film history you know like you are familiar with everything and you know all the other jokes would get so like. I should have figured he would like it. But you know that's fair. I mean i feel like this is a very common approach when you really enjoy something that you like want to share with someone else. It's almost like i don't know it makes me think of different places or books that i would really hesitate before telling someone like. I was going on a date with that. I really enjoyed or like. I would take them there or have them meet the book. Because i didn't yet know how that date was going to go. And so it's kind of like you have like for those of you have been in the dating world when you have a coffee shop. The place that take dates to because i'm not taking them into my actual coffee shop because they don't want them to ruin it for me like this is my place. This is my book. This is my thing. And i'm only going to open my heart to someone i think i can trust with the special thing because i don't want them ruining for me. So the story of why. This book is so special to me. I'm a huge fan of the author. He's like a very english comic. Who's he's known for being like super awkward and geeky and strange but also very endearing league. You just kind of love him as a person and want to give him a hug. I'm obsessed with him. There's one appearance on of his on a quiz show that i literally watch over and over so i found out about this book. Because he didn't appearance on graham norton which is like british tonight show where he talks about this book he was describing the premise of it very badly and i was just like immediately was like i have to read this book so in the manner of my family. Christmas was coming up. And i told my brother to buy it for me. Because that's how christmas gifts in the in household work and he found it but only on like amazon. uk like it wasn't available at all in the us and he was like. Are you sure this is what you want me to buy. My take like four months to get here. And i was like yes. That's what i want so for months. Did someone like paddle a canoe with this. Seems like all long. I remember you gotta and like i dunno. Well well after christmas. Oh yeah it finally got me. And i read it like early. Pandemic didn't like laughing out loud cackling the entire time. I was reading it. I just loved it so much. Like from the first page was like this is my book. This is my book. This is it and it was even better reading at the second time. Somehow like i picked up on other joke. Said like i had never watched film before. But he walks you through the whole thing like shot by shot so you don't really need to nearby that'd be finished reading. You've seen the scene the film and it was more enjoyable than actually watching it probably. Yeah like i just feel like his humor is specifically designed to make me laugh every single thing that comes out of his mouth. I watch all of his stuff even his weird appearances. I read everything he does. Because i'm just like it's perfect. He asked him anyway. I'm very ignorant or elected so a little bit about richard. Ira this is from bbc. America at ten things. You never knew about multi-talented richard ioana. He hosted the bafta tv awards during a pandemic the two thousand twenty virtual ones so this was like a lead up to their. Like if you don't know who this guy is so. He's born in london to a norwegian mother and jaren father and imagine he's now kinda powerhouse of british pop culture in comedy so since he began his career twenty years ago so he sends the known for his comedy roles and the it crowd and the tv show the mighty bouche. He directed the british indie film submarine and the double and hosted the game. Show the crystal maze as well as a travel documentary series and rin very funny books like this one as well as a few others. So he's done lots and lots of things so quickly so these ten things you never knew which is also like okay. Read one book about him. And you've heard mostly things. But he grew up in the english town of ipswich and he was obsessed with j. d. salinger's the catcher in the rye does actually bit in iowa on top when he talks about dressing up as holden caulfield and it's hilarious. So he's married to the actress lydia fox. Apparently she's a member of the famous fox acting dynasty number three though he won a bafta tv award for playing socially challenged moss in the it crowd. He doesn't rate his performance in the cult. Sitcom calling it a mirror. turn which. I don't really know that. Means he said others are really good actors so the show can contain something which is more return than an acting performance. When dignified what. I do by calling it acting. Which is his very ridiculous self deprecating humor. It's like well you just want an award for your acting. I think you're probably pretty decent. He studied law at cambridge university and was president of the famous footlights theatrical club at the same time as john oliver he was one of. I ready's writing partners during their college years. That makes a lot of sense yeah. He is directed music videos for any bands including arctic monkeys radiohead. Yeah yes vampire. Weekend in custody on he had a small cameo in the mana laurean He was linked briefly to the british baking show when it switched networks in the uk in two thousand sixteen. According to the sun he was a leading candidate to replace the hosts at one point. And i really wish that would have happened especially watching all this youtube clip. She sent me of him. And neil news los name knoll fielding. No this is name noel fielding all these hoops of the two of them together and i was like. Oh that's so wonderful. And then i read this and i was like oh they would have been great together. Yeah i got yeah. Their banters incredible. Yep that's the ten things you have to now and you feel like they told you. That wasn't ten yeah. I skimmed over some of them. Because i thought they were not as fundraiser. Just about like he doesn't particularly like interviews according to this interview where he ridicules the interviewer. And i'm like okay. It's not that we have to know about him so okay. We've talked long long about this book already. But do you want to give us a premise of what. This book is doing question mark. Okay so i will attempt to explain what this book is in case. You haven't figured out from context so this book is a satirical academic treatment of a horrible film called view from the top starring gwyneth. Paltrow it's rom com about a girl from quote the wrong side of the tracks as gwyneth. Paltrow could be from santa strikes who's greatest ambition is to be a flight attendant for major airline that does international flights. That's her like life screen. There's some drama that makes no sense a love story. That makes no sense than so richard iowa. Watch this film thanks. I will write a book in which i walked through this film. Beat by beat and like analyze it down to like song choices. Whatever yet ida. I don't know what came over him. But i'm glad i did. So we get to know the film and the whole time. He's like making fun of it by taking it super super super duper seriously like he never breaks character. He treats it like it deserves to be discussed through the lenses of. He takes all these like film analysis philosophy. Feminism historical context like analyzing the director's intention even like some song analysis like there's a whole section. There's a cover of time after time that appears multiple times so he does like an analysis of that song. It sounds super bizarre and super funding. And knees shouldn't wear kind of the. This podcast is made possible by our wonderful book club members. You can support the show by becoming a member on by me. Your coffee dot com slash book club with jd. So julian i our readers. We like to talk about books. but we're also writers and so with our members we love to share newsletters of things happening in our personal lives as well as essays. Poetry other things were writing so starting at three dollars per month. Booklet members can connect with fellow listeners. Hope like books for future episodes. Unlock exclusive newsletters poems etc that we write and early in this kind of access to future events. If you wanna take you support to the next level you can also join the tisza tear which starts at five dollars per month. The tier is all about autism. Autistic person looking for community a possible diverse person looking for resources or an ally hoping to learn from an actually autistic person members of teargas access free to julius autism related articles on medium. The best part of any book club. Besides the books is the community so join us in our growing community of buchner's by becoming a member of the book club. Today you can follow. The lincoln are shown on a to buy me a coffee dot com slash foot club with. Jv to join the party now. Back to the books the rest is up. We're gonna talk to kind of an investigative lens. Yeah dissecting this book like what is the author doing who is the book for. Why is it funny. Because there's nothing more enjoyable than someone sitting around and try and decide how things are funny. I'm sure comedians everywhere love us. But that's what we're gonna do because this is what we do in this podcast. We talk about things in depth in a way the audit us though. I think we can take ourselves much more seriously than he. And we tend to pick books. We think highly off well. That's that's the thing i mean. I guess that's the place to start rate is like he's taking a book that does not deserve this He's taking a film that does not deserve this level of attention and writing a whole book about it ray whereas the taken hour long episode to talk about sort of the highlighting points of a book that we think deserves our attention rate. But we don't give it like there. There is like a page per second of this film. You know what i mean. Yeah permit it like. It's really in depth breakdown and it shouldn't work laid. Shouldn't you explain it to someone. And they're like that sounds really boring. It shouldn't work. It's an absurd premise. That he even like there's a section in the book where he acknowledges that like when he first pitched the idea for the book to his publishers and they were like what what are you talking about. It shouldn't work. So i wanna know why does yeah. I think in a way. It's what i audit as best right like it's it's comedy writing. It's film and he does it in his way. I felt like i was watching. Stand up special. I laughed as hard at this as i would. If i was like watching someone do stand up to the point that i put the book down sometimes because i was laughing so hard. It's very him like he knows his comedy voice and he was able to put in a book which i think is an incredible feat because so many comics art are good. Writers like a lot of comics also do. Tv writing and movie writing. They write their own up. I haven't loved every comics books speakers. Sometimes they take themselves too seriously. You know because the story of their life told in a humorous way but it's also like very personal it's like almost like a memoir is supposed to be more official and more more intimate than maybe they're like actual comedy is whereas i feel like i wanna like while he interweaves personal stories of his life like it's not ever posing as a memoir. It's him doing what he does best. Which many of us find humorous that are willing to buy the book so it works out well for him. Yeah i also think. His comedic voice translates particularly well to text. Because he's he has a very monotone delivery his character his persona his comedic persona is like an exaggerated version of himself which is very awkward intelligence. Nerdy kind of like geek like knows a lot and is gonna like lecture at you with all this information. And so that lends itself very nicely too. I am going to write a pretend book. Length essay like analytical essay in which. I explain things to people. And it's you know you don't have to incorporate the kind of tone and physical comedy at that like other comics might use you know when performing live because he doesn't really use any of that so yeah i think in the same way what are saying like we get laughing so hard well being so similar to stand up also because it wasn't just like a funny line like there's some lines we'll we'll get into and we get into. Why is that. We can pull out as particularly humor's but it all builds on itself rate. So it's like i couldn't even like stop and like read something a lot to learn and be like. Oh my gosh you meet this. Because that's not what's making you laugh. It's like the whole build up of the entire chapter to get to that line or pages so you can get the full emphasizes of certain punchline. So i guess that's what also felt like stand up comedy to me too because a lot of the comics i enjoy like i couldn't just quote one thing. They said because he will okay. Let's that's funny. But i'm like no you didn't get it. They told this story and then they got here than it was called back. It was interesting and he never breaks character is like a forward that's super ernest. Thank you to my mother for always supporting me in my comic career. Something like nah yeah. It's just like from the very beginning to the very end even through the index. All all the same voice all the same joke. Yeah i could see that kind of it comes across as almost a performance. Then i i didn't really think about it that way but that makes a lot of sense to me like i could see myself watching this. I want to listen to the audio book of him. Reading this is that design exists. Because i need it. Oh yeah. I don't know that'd be great because i see turning it into a show where he liked plays the clips and that explains does where he likes tax. Talk your ass tedtalk though at least so funny. Yeah i think it would work really well. Okay then like who's his target audience. Who is who is the book for. I mean i guess i can start. I literally when we wrote. Who is this book for. The first thing i wrote was just me. He sat on. He's like somewhere out there in this world as a woman julia close in this book. Yeah yeah that was his inspiration for writing it he was like. Julius gonna wanna read this. So i got her. I gotta write it. I guess 'cause he's mean we can get into it more in a bit but his humor feels like very specifically autistic to me in a way that I've been kind of merit aiming for longtime time of like wise this. Why does this feel so specific to me. Like it's partly the style of humor and then also. It's like the perfect intersection of all of my special interests. Also it's not just like the style of humor but it's also like film and kind of literary criticism and he's a writer and he brings in you know all these different lenses and it's just like a magical combination so anyway i am then very curious to be like what does the experience of what is this like further people. Who else finds this funny. I mean clearly. Victoria and i was kinda worried. No one else would find it funny so like what. Who do you think this book is for. Honestly i think it just should. I oughta being himself. I mean it's still like a character in a way but like kind of that like true to yourself. Unlike writing for what he would want to read is like the vibe. I get because it doesn't feel like he's reaching for a certain audience at. I'm not as familiar with his career. Perhaps he's very tuned and he knows like there's a lot of intelligent nerdy work. Let me rights intelligent and nerdy. Like perhaps maybe he's that he's got that focus. Pardon me also feels like especially because he writes a whole scene of how he pitched this book and they were like no just like he had this idea. And he's like i have to do this for me and also on some platform. He knows. he's the famous english comic. Maybe the book isn't going to be a best seller. But he's got an audience he can write another one of these and this isn't his first book like he's done other comic books where he does want about himself critiquing his own work like he's writing about his work as if it's like super famous and the very end of prolific career and he read it when he was in his thirties and like just starting so i think i think he's kind of like writing for what he wants to read was somewhat of a knowledge that he does have an audience that will go out and buy one of my favorite bits of the all the you to cook. She set me of him as he someone asked him like. Do you need to watch the movie before you read his book and he said i encourage everyone to go out and buy the book and then decide if they want to read it. Which was hilarious. Lewis again it's like. How do you explain that humor as he twisted their expectation. Your occasionally like read the book and decide if you wanna watch the movie. But he'd like by the book and decide if you want to read it because he's like once you bought it you can just decide. He takes he doesn't take himself seriously and he just he displays that by being super serious which is like the weirdest little twist that like we can see through his ultra seriousness. As not being serious. I think the books himself. Honestly that makes a lot of sense because i relate to him a lot and so if he wrote it for himself and i would be like by proxy a target audience member so we just like a lot of the feedback that you get as a creative person. It's like create the are you want to consume lead. You look out the world and you can't find the work that really speaks to you or like you have something in you that you wanna share and for him. It's super intense academic critique of ridiculous film but instead of like bemoaning like oh. That's not what people do. That's not what people write books about. I can't do that. He's just goes rights and it's wonderful in the world has metaphor and he's also like he clearly knows his stuff. You know what i mean like. It's an imitation like film critic. But it's a very very very good imitation. 'cause he knows his stuff he makes all these references like very specifically literary film philosophy theology references like he throws in heidegger and like very important writers and filmmakers elec the bible quotes in there and the style of writing is such a good imitation of leg stuck up academia. So you know that he consumes this kind of stuff. You know what i mean. It's not like he. He's very much a part of this world. Also maybe thinks it's a bit ridiculous. Pardon me as i was reading i was like man some of these references like i don't know if it would make it really inaccessible to people or you know if you're not like kind of in that niche little roll I dunno i guess if you know at least one or two if you have one or two of the circles in the ven diagram you probably enjoy it you know and pick up on the rest. He's not mocking that style from the outside he's mocking in from the inside. Which makes it kinda sweet almost in this really bizarre way. Part of me wonders. If it's one of those you know we we've talked about like those films for filmmakers and there's books for authors and i kind of wonder if this is kind of one of those things maybe well i mean even the fact that it's in the even if it's making fun of it but it's in the realm of criticism. I always feel like the geeky. Est of geeks when i'm browsing the literary criticism section of a bookstore. Because it's like it's not enough for me to read the books. I need to read about how we read. Books need to read about the writing books. It's like so it's just like feeding your own ego in a way. I mean it's but it's also so enjoyable so i do think his audience is supposed to be niche. He's not writing to everyone. He's not even ready to everyone who likes him as a comic. Because why you like him as a comic may not be actually your interest in background and i think like i also feel like usually even though i enjoyed this book i feel like i can recommend it to listen podcast. You have a lot of people who are very interested in how we read how we understand the world in philosophy and how intertwined with literature. But that's not the whole world. That's not even my friends okay. So we talked so much about his humor. And i know julia has done a lot of work to identify the types of humor. Wise book funny. Oh my god okay. So the biggest type of humor that he uses is sarcasm through extreme hyperbole. Which is kind of what we've been talking about this whole time. So and this. But he's kind of Going frame-by-frame through the opening and how the camera work is helping. Tell the story so up there. Sky lie dreams down here. Land laws reality donna. Sitting on her bottom behind in front of a trailer behind her lying on his behind on soiled couch seemingly asleep is her. mom's fourth husband. Pete this is the bedrock of great directing translating ideas into images so ridiculous. And when i actually read this before i saw i watched the film i watched philly a third of the way through reading and i thought it was gonna be like slower because she he goes so slow through this. I was like what was the scene like so dramatically. Like a down back but it's just literally just the pain of a camera and he's like he goes in minutely and makes those makes us a giant analysis and and then something so ridiculous for all of us. Oh of course like making a film Turning ideas into images there's literally the definition filmmaking the bedrock of great directing and yeah so that's his extreme hyperbole gives you a good sense of how he talks about the the direction of the because he did something that's like so basic to filmmaking like student could make it and then he's like this is the most important thing another thing he does is hill. Take a metaphor and and then make it super literal like you'll think he's going one direction and then you realize oh. He's interpreting this very very literally. This is one of my favorite of jokes that he does so. I loved this one so in this action. Go fly yourself. He references the ways of seeing by john. Verger which i feel so fancy because like we read it in college and like comes up all the time. It's just like modernist taxed about how we see the world and like a we're seeing and being seen whatever so he's quoting birger make a point so he he says burger goes on to write. This isn't quotes. This determines not only most relations between men and women but also the relation of women to themselves the surveyor of women in herself as male. The surveyed is female though she turns herself into an object of vision a site and then back in iowa voice but by this point. Berge was obviously losing focus. How can you survey something inside of you. It's durkan there. And pretty groupie i died. That was so funny. But yeah especially the glue. It just perfect word. It's pretty dark in there groupie. Pretty loopy oh my god. It's like what we're gonna go through more. But i feel like the making metaphors literal like that kind of deliberate misunderstanding is part of the humor that i find so autistic because i feel like that's that's one of the things that like my friends and i my friends and i'd like do with each other. That we find funny is like we sort of exaggerate the ways that we already misunderstand stuff and we sort of turn it on. Other people in an exaggerated way kind of deliberately misunderstands and reinterpret and take things literally and so like any of his jokes. Where he's you know he's an it's usually some really long academic thing you know really intellectual and then he the the line is like yo you didn't understand at all but he's taking it so seriously answer yet. That's one of my favorite types of bits that he does similarly. I think he uses very very fancy language for very mundane very not fancy subjects a few examples so one of the sections that made me cry. Laughing was when he is exploring different advertising campaigns of different airlines and like how ridiculously are and he's kind of examining like the sexualization of stewardesses are flight attendants and how different airlines kinda like sold that and it's actually really interesting. Actually views could be very seriously to discuss of like. Why were there stewardesses on planes and it was a traditional female role and he talks about like the influence of world war two and how there is a lot of women who were pushed out of the workplace again when men came back from war and how this one opportunity there for them at originally they were like trained to nurses but they didn't want people to feel unsafe when they were trying to solve these commercial flights so they had to make less like. Oh these people here for your safety because no you're very very safe for these people are here to look nice and help you and make you feel fancy and accommodated and like whatever so anyway. This is often very interesting section. But of course he infuses of it so much humor and he goes one by one. Here's air jamaica jamaica went with we make you feel good all over. Which even if he were justified on. Your inner ear is a flat-out fib. Few things are guaranteed to make people feel worse than air travel. You are one hundred times more likely to catch a cold on a plane. You're exposed to more radiation than you would be if you stood dexter nuclear reactor and perhaps most pressingly and makes a man mighty windy. The moment. Right before floaters passes to. The rectum is one of tension and intense self hatred. Once it's out you feel like god but until you elementary canal deflates you died. And he don't care how such a great example of his fancy language for very fancy subject literally farting on a plane. Yeah like you never even uses those words. He every word but and it's so good owing. Add me editing this episode. Like this literally just going to be me laughing at this book. Yeah it's an amazing one. I'm trying to feel the air. France section is so funny. I'm trying to see what category falls under for you. Okay so this is such a another example of making metaphors literal or taking things very literally. This is one of the. I wrote down. All air. france page eighty. That's all i wrote in my notes. Air france had the slogan. Have you ever done it the french way. But how can you fly in a way. That's particularly french discipline. Where beret and leave a trail of. I can't pronounce his french word. Golos fumes are the in-flight announcements underscored by nickelodeon are other planes. Especially if the on their gap years inexplicably attracted to them. What is this specifically french about. These aircraft are they're just giant winged begets or advertising. China suggest that the french cabin crew may well. Well what exactly. Why don't they just call it. Caligula are caesar white clean for a reason yes the front the giant wing beca. It's just there's nothing better or they are university students. Especially if they're on their gap year inexplicably attracted to them. Oh my god. I and then just imagine the invite announcements with an accordion underneath. That would be amazing so like he takes something like that like doing it. The french way right. So there's like a ton of subtexts there and we know because he set up all this stuff about how airlines sexualize flight attendants rate. We know what that is referring to but instead he's like that doesn't make any sense rate. he's he's pointing out the the ridiculousness of it by like deliberately misunderstanding. The point is to say like why. Why would you use this like sexual subtexts. And then he like is very long winded with these jokes to like he. You know it's not just like a quick punchline. He like goes into great detail about it which also feels very autistic to me. It's like he's like really trying to understand what would make an airline french. There's like an earnestness to it. Even as he's like making fun of them and calling them out okay so digs at the greats like he's comparable to them these come up quite often and their Particularly if you're familiar with like playwrights in film like screenwriters. I don't i didn't always get all of these. But they're the one that i picked out from your list i i did. I did also enjoy so baretto. Is the name of the director. British shows us a dry barren terrain. And it's middle absurdly like something. Becca might have written if he ever had the balls to come up with a plot. The greatest playwright his time. If you had the balls to come up with a plot he would've thought of something as beautiful as this. We're just underscores. How ridiculous and like on the nose. So much of the director of this film is yeah to make a comparison to beckett whose lake especially waiting forgotten right. The whole thing is a metaphor you know about like nihilism and stuff like this film that he's talking about is so incredibly. Literal that drawing comparison and calling beckett terrible and this director gray kind of points out just how different they are so he also has these critiques of class and sex and gender by mimicking these arguments about class insects. But drying out you can see the flaws in the argument even though he's taking that side in a way sometimes yeah he has a whole section about gwyneth. Paltrow company goop. That is just incredible. The take down of goop. I've ever heard like he talks about the vagina candles and the eggs and just kind of gwyneth paltrow persona at being super expensive and it's like really scathing and your I love that chapter yet and then he draws a he also loves drying out discussions on things that don't really matter like part of when he's like pointedly misunderstanding something. He also misses the purpose of something. A lot like he'll he'll were whatever direction you think he's gonna go. He'll go the opposite direction down. This lake side. Tangent does not matter at all and he'll spend a whole page on it you know 'cause he's just like we must analyse everything and i feel like that's a pretty good critique of criticism as well because you know sometimes we can get bogged down in these tiny details that like. Maybe don't matter but we treat with all this importance. I guess kind of where. I was explaining how some of this humor feels particularly autistic to me. And it's like if we wanted to summarize. Why is it funny. It's the sort of like blatantly missing. What's actually going on to an exaggerated degree maybe to point out the flaws in the in. What's actually going on. And it just feels like a super autistic sense of humor her and like we sort of take things that autistic people already do where we miss subtexts or tone or social cues or context river. Either turn it on its head turn it back on the people who would make fun of us or like exaggerated to a degree where it's like more clear and obvious what we're doing but there's also the second layer of like where a lot of times you need to be super familiar with our shared special interest rates. You need to be able to get all the niche references. I can't tell you. How many jokes like. I'm hilarious in my head but there are so many jokes that like only make sense. If you get this very very specific line from like three different films flick on the any of my friends would get that exact overlap of i knowledge to find it funny and to like. There's so many jokes. That i just don't say so. Yeah i i think a lot of a lot of our humor is like dumb references and re re repetition of references to things. So you have to have that particular knowledge of something along with our sense of humor in order to like tap into that which you know. It is fairly similar to something neuro. Typical people also do but it just felt so specific. That leg as i was kind of breaking down why i found this book funny it was kinda fun exercise in actually being like. What do i find funny. You know what is autistic. Humor like in those kind of fun. yeah. I feel like this. His humor is perfectly wonderful. In a way that he's using what you're reading is like an autistic lens or were waiting asthmatic lawns to point out the absolute absurdity of things like language film and culture. And there's so many things in our like neuro typical dominant culture. That weird is like yes. This is how it is and then it takes a nar divergent person to come in and be like why the hell is that. That makes no sense. And i'm like yeah. You're right and i think it's like exactly what we need. And we've talked before the podcast. How this is especially important in like super serious context like climate change in like Where noor diverting. People are stepping up and saying like. Hey y'all are saying one thing and not doing it so like can we please pay attention and do the things we said we're going to do. And that's i think every judicial court in the country should have a neuro diverse person there to help make decisions because like we need a supreme court of autistic people. It's because they would know their stuff and all like double minded about a lot of it not to say all autistic people wanna be on court. But i think there's a lot could be great at it. So i think it makes for a wonderful sense of humor and a lot of it made me think of what we discussed in kate. Foxe's book watching the english of like how self ridicule and self deprecating. Humor is particularly english like we we already knowledge like. Oh we find humor really funny and it kind of makes sense that we would see such a similar vibe from ira. Because he's not like you said he's not on the outside and making fun of film And being like they're so stuck oven ridiculous but he's like in a being stuck on ridiculous about it and that's what's funny and like pointing like oh. Aren't we ridiculous that we sit around and say all this stuff about films that somehow like meet the mark of like a great film. Why don't we do it with ridiculous. So i really enjoyed it. It's a great time when it comes to iras writing. I honestly don't know anyone else who writes like him. So i would recommend is other books if you want something very similar. I haven't read them but they seem also really humorous as far as writers like. Get into like niche film topics. They right what they love and what they're interested in what they wanna read about. Which i think is what i what is doing. I've makes me think of haley in victoria. Who the writers over at gold-plated girls newsletter. And he did this. Whole series called single women in hollywood. And she created like this matrix out of like these quadrants. There's like horny and sexless as like one spectrum and then messing organizes the other spectrums near the intersection of those and she goes. It's like a five part series because she goes in like looks at single woman in tv and movies that are like horny embassy in organized and sexless and like what those tropes look like and it is absolutely wonderful and takes very seriously characters from rom coms and other tv and film. That's just kind of pushed aside as like not worthy of critical analysis. So go read their stuff. It's hilarious so okay. If you like this book. I recommend going on youtube and finding old versions of the big fat quiz quiz of the year. It's a bbc thing that literally happens once a year and it's at new years and it's a review of like the pop culture references of the previous years so they have a section about songs like political things film and tv. And it's really but they bring a bunch of comics to do it. And for many many years richard iowa and noel fielding were a team and they never won a single dime. They did likes four five years in a row as a team and they never won. But they're so funny together. It'd be confined old versions of that with those together highly recommend and then obviously the. It crowd where he plays. Moss very very good and then two other things that this book made me think of while we were talking about it. i really love the podcast. How did this get made. I've referenced it before but is where like three comedians take apart really bad movies so they watch them together and they talk about how bad they are and it's a very different tone. It's a much more american tone like they don't take them seriously at all. But it's still really fun and then Also about the victoria got for me actually called shit actually by lindy west wrote shrill is she writes comical short essays about great films or not so great films just like some films. It's the most random collection of movies you've ever seen but it's kind of like watching like she's live tweeting watching the movie with really a lot of melodrama in her jokes and a lot of capitalization jokes and stephan. It's really funny. So yeah those are some good like taking the pests out of film stuff you might enjoy da da da. Show you all love. I don't know who like we enjoy of what we're currently obsessed with things that are bringing us joy you can go i got. You're watching big mouth yeah. Julia sneak peek. Because she sees my notes on a share. Doc you So vernon i went to mars bring many here in chicago and they have. It was a tuesday night out something chill. There was not very many people and they had like a screen pull down and it was playing some videos or whatever in the background but someone put on big mouth and we didn't any sound we were just reading. Subtitles are date. Went from us. Having great in that conversation stashes watching diagnostic other. Because we're like. Oh my gosh and they happen to start with like season one episode once so we were like this is funny and so we went home and we watching it and we watch it again last night and yeah so we're like five or six episodes now and it's great. I remember. Julia would watch it. And i would always walk into the most awkward times. I mean it's such like it's all about like puberty in awkwardness right. And she's like a good show. I swear i'm like i don't know what i just saw. I don't they don't even know but that's been really enjoyable. I also have been enjoying the podcast. The illusionist which is some great julia. It's a podcast about mahlouji allusion. Sra l. l. you as i o. And the host. I'm blanking on her name. She's a british woman lovely. She was like a guest on another podcast. And i was like. Oh that sounds interesting. I want to listen to the very short like bite size episodes of like her talking about language and english words come from end. Some lamar. A lot of like in depth background like i listened to one where. Sos comes from and is actually doesn't even mean save our ship because it was like an international designation so it's not in english. It's just because of the morse code is the most recognizable and you're not gonna get confused for something else. And so then there was all this history and she talked like these naval safety people in historians and i was just really fascinating deep dive and others are just like really kind of silly like a food quiz with some mean nosrat and chicago array. Which of course. I listened to that episode where it's just a bunch of random questions about food related terms and their atom apology and simeon. Got like all the questions wrong which was really funny but yeah so it's great. It's hidden for people listening to this podcast. Who might also be language obsessed like us you might enjoy it. And lastly i have a lot this week for me. I usually like one or two. I came with a list. The pair social club. Which is my lovely brothers band He's also the creator of the music for our podcast. They dropped a new ep today. Call isolation few songs they wrote during the pandemic so sweet. I'm so excited you're watching big mo. Yeah i'm so excited. Oh my god. I know i'm not i'm like. Why did we want together. I should have just sat down buckled in. You always walked in on the worst times and like i'm very bad at pitching stuff like i. I can't describe thanks mare in a way that makes people want to watch them. Like how did. I ever work in marketing. I don't know like don't ask me to pitch anything. I will either explain it in excruciating detail or i will describe a completely irrelevant like thing about it i i just i can't. I don't know what people enjoy. What did we will find funny. So i'm still playing catch up a little bit with my recommendations from our hiatus so i very long list and i'm going go quickly. Dear white people season for having watched it yet. But that's happening this week. Custody powell money heist season five. God so much drama huge clinger. There's one more season. And i'm like dying knows xs. New album monteiro blew me away. He's got some great features on there but he's also got some more chill songs. That i actually are my favorites. I think does he. Normally rights bops. You know but like actually yeah. He's got some really good like kind of sad song. Said i'm like. Oh my god okay right. Casey must graves new album. Star-crossed it's a break up album. Very lovely yeah. I wasn't like a huge fan of the one that went grammy. But i really like those one. So i don't know what that says about me and then churches the scottish bench They have a new album called screen. Violence that is very angry. So if you want some angry girl steph. This one's good so that's my list. Thanks for sharing this comedy. Gold this book with us. You're welcome. Thanks for rating opening your your heart to potential disappointment but hopefully this has been good experience to be able to talk about it. Yeah oh my god. This is the dream so lesson for the day. Don't be afraid to share to share your love with others. you gotta learn to be okay. If they say no which is still something that i'm working on. You know. Share your exuberance. And then i find if i'm very vocal about how much i love something it takes about a year but eventually someone will be like. Hey you know the thing that you always talk about your right. Which is honestly like how i watch nearly anything like for tonight. Decided to start a shower. Or something will like flip through and julia said good things about like fifteen months ago but i think maybe we can watch. Thank you for listening to put club with julia inventory. We would love to hear your thoughts on this topic. We discuss ac- you can share your review and recommendations with us on instagram at book club with jd on her website bukoba jd. Dot com by leading view. On apple podcast. You can also start website for show now with links to all the recommendations things bringing joy if you don't already go ahead and follow us on whichever podcast platform. You're listening on so that you can be notified when our next episode is released. This episode was co hosted and produced by myself. Victoria which posit provide gas me provides us with project management support. Our music is composed by brick. And our look was designed by cabin until next time reading.

julia Joshua malina rob lowe richard ioana mark ruffalo roblo Paltrow jasmine lane gwyneth richard iowa bafta tv awards jaren lydia fox bafta tv award famous footlights theatrical c mana laurean gwyneth paltrow buchner victoria richard
Mt. Rushmore of a Large Wooden Shipping Crate

Mt. Rushmore Podcast

31:13 min | 1 year ago

Mt. Rushmore of a Large Wooden Shipping Crate

"Greetings welcome to Mount Rushmore podcast. Mine is Jeff and I'm joined as always by my good friend Richard! and Michael Honey. Richard and Michael this week are going to debate and deliberate the Mount Rushmore of a large wooden shipping crate in pop culture. If we all we almost made it through it without without. This was my choice and. I am fascinated with tropes in cinema and storytelling and I remember as a kid saying in the Warner brothers cartoons, a large wooden shipping create would show up and often it had some words. Spray painted on the side in the Cooper Font. And often coming out of that would be something crazy or insane. They would send everyone into a chaotic scramble, but not just in cartoons and films and videos and story other storytelling. And it usually is a fun portent of. Something that will. The The plot into motion so I thought it'd be fun to discuss that. And I. Guess I'll see from your choices whether you had fun with it or not. so why don't we start with Michael Winfield? Okay. Well I I'm guessing. This is going to be on everybody's list. It was the first one that I thought of and I think it's. The best one, no matter what it's. The wooden shipping crate that contained Ark of the Covenant in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Obviously also on my list. Yeah, I like the this. The this was contained in a wooden crate twice in a movie. not only I think the most famous aspect of it is when it's kind of bolted up at the end with the words top secret, Army Intel sprinted. spray painted on. It says do not open, but also when the Nazis. Created that bad boy up and spray painted their eagle in sauce on there and. Then the Was GonNA. Take that Shit and burned that right off. And I just loved it. Doesn't matter what side of the war you fall on your using a large wooden ship and create to contain when I amazing archaeological discoveries in history of the world. Yeah. The the power, the power of God can't be contained by would or can be I guess in Richard. What was interesting to its ubiquity. It's It's imprinted on pop culture from. I actually have on on here. a slightly different. It's the raiders of the lost art. Crates Fluoro-. I'm specifically was thinking of the final shot of the movie after the The ARCUS. After it's been CRATED UP IN SETBACK TO WHEREVER YEAH One Washington the big were exactly. It is little here but it's just being is then being taken and put into this vast you know. Like literally square miles of warehouse space with. With shipping crates, wooden shipping crates that are matching with God knows what antiquities in and you know magical items that are encased within. and. It just made me wonder who had the contract for that. Because look at how many wooden crates those are. That is. That is in nineteen. Forties time that must have been. Billions of dollars of crates, just the crates themselves, not being counting stuff. That's inside of them. Whoever got that contract. You know that I'm guessing there were some graph that went into the. The wooden crate contracts. Order that went into that. And I I i. just think it's an incredible visual. This idea that all of these wonder of the world are just being stored in these the most wooden crates you can possibly imagine. Stops Lepas serial number on it and houses away to be unpacked again The unless you're? A crystal skull. That is. Michael Brings Book Good Point here in that many people out on the crowd source I did reach out onto our facebook page for answers, suggestions from the some of the fine folks listen to them out more podcast, and that was one of the top responses was. Indiana Jones but then some sharp eyed. Viewers listeners also followed up to say that it was in many of the other series in crystal. Skull in and. There was another fewer. This is going to be the thing where he's. Not Jeff Cup this out, also in Anderson, Dodoo, who suggested the? Indiana Jones also said last crusade when they bust out of the crate on the motorcycle with Sidecar. And I think there are many other crate scenes in the Indiana Jones a quad. Quadrille Edgy And I'm going to shuffled down to find them are you? Are you suggesting. Are you suggesting Jeff? The Steven Spielberg has a crate fetish? Yeah. He's monsters crates. The big what he's! The Big Three for Spielberg Yeah. There's a lot of crates in that series. Of course, it's about artifacts, and of course it's you know of a certain era, and there's a lot of scenes where people are shipping off from one thing to another, but yeah so. That's a fun for choice I what I love about that is. Like Yourself, Richard, I think of the ending shot in which. At the end of each of the skies, adventures, Is Indiana Jones character who was based on kind of a serialized adventure hero. All of the action and all of the mysteries in all of the things he's he's. Put blood sweat and tears into capturing are relinquished off into anonymity, and they get boxed up and put away and we know there's another episode and from that shot to so it's really kind of opening with closer for me. in that shot. Also you kind of wonder. What other mysteries lurk inside this warehouse? Is it just Genghis? Khan's wouldn't teeth or is it Other supernatural artifacts and things like that. On par with it. So yeah cool cool. I cool first choice. What do you got? Men Freddie. My second choice is in the cartoon category as You mentioned. It is widely coyotes various. Industries crates. That's also on my list to Oh. You know. When you're watching a Wylie Coyote and roadrunner cartoon, you know at some point certain things will happen. He is GonNa fall off a cliff and not realize he's fallen off the cliff for a few seconds, and then waved bye, bye, baby, hold up a sign. premade sign that says yikes. Get something like that, or maybe he has to write it really easily some fence, yeah! Yeah and another thing that will happen is he will receive a shipment from acme industries, and it will come in big generic crates. And, of course, the crate will tell you exactly what it is. That is inside of great, so you know automatically Oh. This is a a roadrunner traffic. Or an anvil. Anvil slingshot whatever it. Rocket. Rocket Shoes Rocket Skates whatever they happen to be. and. You know I know I'm not reading a new ground here, but. At some point, wasn't there their competitor acme industries. There had on right. There must have been I mean. There couldn't have been just one company making. Making, these under what you would call them, weapons of. Singular. Instead of mass destruction. It does seem like there is a place in the market for quality competitor. Yeah! Yes, there's some sort of quality control. It is not happening at me. There's also also raises the question. How is her these getting delivered? Because I don't why. He doesn't seem to have a fixed address. It's not like he has a house out in the middle of the desert or po box or something like that. To appeal box now way. Out with great epic, no can't get inside. You know Chuck Jones actually had nine rules for Wiley Coyote cartoons. And one of them was that Hold May I'm reading it real quick okay had to. Two of the nine worlds were based on acne products rule number two. No outside force can harm the coyote, only his own ineptitude or the failure of the acne product. And then also let's see it was. Rule number seven, all materials, tools, weapons, or mechanical conveniences must be obtained from the Acme Corporation. So? They did have the monopoly and. It was. You know. I guess they were all the other shipping companies and a novelty companies are novelty. contraptions were in maybe the Disney universe announced Does that Linden existential Obviously there's there's a lot of this is coyote and road. Runner might as well be. Bertel breakfast or Samuel Beckett waiting for Godot because they are. In place where the environment never changes, they never H. It is true of cartoons. They. There's never anything coming from the outside. So is what is reality, and then what is real? IS THE ACME company even? Even a viable company, or all these things actually in his mind, because the result is the same. At the at the end of all of that. We Wanna wax essential about that. I mean I I I imagine that they're they're just. They lose so much money. On Wiley Coyote because he doesn't seem to happen income. Yeah what is he paying with? That's a good question. I did I go ahead I was going to ask, does he? Does he try to try to reach her in these items after they? Like. What's the? What's the return policy of Acne Industries? I'm guessing. I'm not great. I did compile a list of ice I I watched a compilation video of all of the different products that he's received from acne. And then I broke that down and compiled just a list of the ones that came in large wooden shipping crates night, so also here is a list a- dog sled and twelve ninety two pound dogs. Dynamite bomb balloon and basket. Practice bombs do it yourself. Rockets led thirty miles of track jet motor jet propelled UNICYCLE. Outboard. Motor do it yourself tornado indestructible steel ball snow machine. A five hundred pound Anvil Street, cleaner, wagon and weather balloon. This I mean they're versatile if if anything you know. If. If you want something, you can get it from Akron Yeah. We'll think Justin Kosh. Who submitted Wylie, Coyote and acme products as a suggestion, so he agrees with you guys. So I guess with that gentleman. We have rocketed on a rocket skates most quickly to the halftime than we ever have before because you both pick that all right. Yeah, okay, so Let's start to head through the of we're. We're halfway to the to the end of the series as we know. We are. So, let's head toward the apparent tunnel inside of the desert, Mesa, which was painted, somehow with one can had colors paint inside of it. And give the halftime. Skill, which is just to engage you the audience to engage with a little bit more go out on the social media pages and suggest new topics. Pre previous. Suggest doors have ended up being guests on this. PODCAST, which is always fun? And then do us a solid download rate in review past episodes. We would love any stars have sitting around your place. Want to give to us. One, two, three twenty, and then let us know any specific episodes or might have. That would be super cool and the big thing you can do would be to share it with your buddies. You know people who. Listen to podcasts. The world. You don't commute to go anywhere. In your car. Let them know about hours? That'd be super cool. All right, so what's so interesting about a wooden crate any? When is suggested this? Was the reason that you said yeah okay well I, for me I just. I I think I replied back, Abso fucking lutely. This is in the wheelhouse of things that. Should be. Like if we're if our goal is to cover everything. We got to cover the ones that are seemingly mundane and I liked it. You know just because it's a wooden box on the outside. What are the treasures that are inside and I think that's ultimately. What the! It's an encapsulation of what our podcast feels like sometimes where it doesn't matter how Singular or boring topic title can be, it's all the other. Week. Oh, he stuff inside. Oh Yeah Yeah I mean that's that's you know and I also think that some of the best episodes are the ones where they're just like okay. Mount, Rushmore, jackets or Mount Rushmore of them or Morse's yeah where it's just like. Where is this GONNA go? Oh, yeah! Okay, okay, cool, then I guess it would be Michael Sharing his third. Okay, my third choice is from a Christmas story. It's the major award the. Leg Lamp that arrives at. The old man's house inside a giant wooden crate. That says a fragile. Fergie Lay Michael Fresh Eli I'm sorry, yes, and this end up. On it. and. By the way also on my list. Pasta shapes. For those of you who don't know we have always said that if Michael night agree on all four choices that we will immediately and we will, we will declaring in to the podcast string. What do one more episode on Pasta Shapes the? Right. Begun Well. That's scary. But. I never thought we'd get there it there. It was the most popular one out on the crowd source to multiple people. Talked about this and I. I can see that in this film. At least during one month out of the year is played twenty four hours a day on channel. Salute dedicated to it. But? You know what is interesting. Is they were very I would say there are very few comedies much less holiday family comedies. that. Involve this trope. A lot of them were adventure, films or genre films are mysteries so. It's an interesting thing to have that. And it does it does bring something mysterious. To this. Guy It in a way. And I know I want to hear more about why you chose this, but is it. Is the wooden. Before it has opened unless you know what's inside of it. It is a mirror lens to see your innermost thoughts. And this guy this guy. Who is? Darren, Darren mcgavin I figured he was perfect. Yeah is not in this film allowed to really relish in his ego, narcissism or dreams or have been dashed with this guy a long ago. So. Yeah, how would you describe his? His reaction when it arrives well I I loved the idea that he is trying to guess at what could be inside this wooden crate. And some of the guests he comes up with including a bowling alley. Just spectacular, trying to figure out. How can they send a whole bowling alley? Yeah, it's just you know the idea of the wooden crate as you said as this sort of. All encompassing mystery containment. item. Literally anything with the size of it. You kind of have to you know it would just leads you to all of these like incredible, apnea faucet. At this case for the old man, who, throughout the rest of the movie, is basically just getting kicked in the nuts over and over again. or we're literally getting. A bowling ball dropped on his nuts. This is like he gets his bowling ball. Yeah, yeah, this is literally his moment in the Sun. And the beauty of this late lamp is something that even is beyond even his wildest dreams and expectations of what could be inside this crate. I'd love the visual of him trying to pray this thing open with a crowbar. Is just brilliant. What I what I love about it is this is his Christmas Day. Kids get their actual Christmas Day where the running down the stairs and tearing into their Christmas presents in. He's running Zeppelin all over the floor and all you know they're so excited. This is excited as he is ever going to be as in his entire life with. Literally jumping into the box itself in throwing Straw. Packing material around and CR- Crowbar. Ian Open. It's him his Christmas present. Egypt's came you know two weeks before the actual Christmas. Manfreddy? Oh boy okay. I have thought about I thought about trying to pull them audible. Here goes something really obscure just just for the sake of the show. But nope, we need to appear on this. And if it happens, it happens. So my last choice is Khaimah thrums. Tearing Lancaster is shipped. To vars or with virus by Jamie laster. What neck on a boat. What an excellent choice Richard it is! Not On my list Oh. Thank God the show. The show goes on, though thank God, no I just and I the thing I love about. It is the when he gets finally when they get to their landing, place and bars like crowbars out of it. And the first thing he does that Terry does is complain about having to push his own. Line is pushes own ship through one of the small breathing holes. And it just makes me think about the you think of the trope of some shipping themselves to some place. Yeah, things that have has happened in real life, so it's not necessarily just. They TV or film. Cliche, but something that has I know there's a very famous story about a of the slaves. Shipped himself to abolitionists in the North during the just before the civil war in managed to escape slavery that way. and. Tyrians journey just sort of makes. You realize that would be APP so freaking lutely miserable. What a tear. What a terrible thing to have to! He's tiny. He's a small guy. If you're a normal sized guy in one of those boxes of even worse. In just the mechanics of yeah, what you do, you have to take a leak. What do you do when you have to take dumped? You. which you know, what would it be like when you first get out your legs? You know you've been. You know if if my legs fall asleep at being A. Sitting Criss Cross apple sauce for a half hour. I can't imagine what being crunched up. A box I for several days or a week would be like. Just absolutely miserable and I think. The way gave a shout. greymouth thrown showed. Period immediately after getting out and sort of his is annoying with the whole whole thing even though. This was done as a way to save him from his own execution. I think he's very very realistic to me because even though. Intellectual, you know hey, this was the only way that I could survive. Thank God that they did this. When you first get out all you WANNA. Do Bitch about it. Yeah. That's a fun choice. our friend Sam who goes by Sami similar. On facebook because he doesn't want share, real name suggested that one I'm not familiar with it, but it does seem both humiliating, but also. Gives him a new lease on life exactly yeah, that would be. Horrified. Okay Winfield. My last choice. Is GonNa make Richard absolutely. terrifyingly angry at me but I. I don't care I don't care. It is. The Trojan horse. From? Greek mythology and I guess if you want to put in a pop culture context, let's say the movie. Troy sure where you know tomato would. Technically made out of. Shipping would it's made out of as ship. It contains things. Traveled a long way. Jazz Pro I'm not even GONNA. About this one. Let, you be the judge of this. Good. He's the he's. He doesn't even have to. He doesn't have to. The points, but I can you know, argue my case okay, and if I'm laughed out of. His Majesty's Court courtroom. So. Every every court needs adjuster. Michael That's right. I am that. Let's unique ways guy. What do you what do you? What do you think is interesting or intriguing or whatever about the Trojan horse? would. It's a horse. Did, you run. Did you run out of ideas Michael. Technically, when I realized that when Garfield always threaten to ship. Normal to Abu Dhabi. And then all of the images that I looked up. Did Not have anything to do with a shipping crate, and they're all like a small wooden box like shoebox with holes poked in speaking of things being live animals being ship someplace I immediately started trying to scrambled to think of something that would be. A different I guess you know, but also contained people I thought you're tearing. Choice was excellent Richard. You know the same basic concept, but You Know Trojan horse. It was big wooden container that The the the trojans brought into their city. People argued not to bring in thinking that it was a trick and those people were. Killed by Poseidon sent like asked to kill them. The people that foretold would be the doom of the trojans. And? You know it was a good trick. It's it's ever ever. Everyone loves a good a good a good trick. I don't like I. You know crappy at Straws here, but yeah, it's made out of wood, you know. There's. There's a Simpson's episode that have shifted now a wooden box. You can Michael I just can't. I can't sleep. There wasn't a real. Rumble or something or somebody shows up in wouldn't create that you guys did pull out. Was the GOBBLY EUCHRE in? He was in an egg egg, so that doesn't. Yeah I okay I'm sure there was the three stooges episode. Oh, absolutely of a wooden created some. I'm going to read some the crowd sources and they were some really great suggestions. Leslie seiler was the first person to suggest raiders Bradley Gilboa was the. First person to suggest the. Christmas story Create Josh Carson. short-circuit to what we do in the shadows now. That's a good poll I think even though it's a co- yeah. Well I guess they they do live in the crates. They ships themselves crates. I, believe I believe that What's his name was? PC descent across the sea, not Peter. Ever was sent sent across the sea. The one that's played by Taika. WAITITI! How went? It took too long to get there. He said like second-class post or something. Yeah both Christie, Patterson, beach, and Howard Aaron said several episodes of Gilligan's island. That might have been the second place. I saw that as a kid. Greek comment from Brian Scholar in fact to Bryan's suggested Avenue Casello meet. Frankenstein stand up comics, credible a great pick, and then he went on to say that even though I I recall US discussing this in the Mount Rushmore poorer comedy. I think this film and He did comment that he had heard that film was what made Tarantino get into directing So that shows, the versatility of this trope can be comedy or horror this thing. Lil at Barber. Lewis Barbarian suggested and friends when Joey Chandler sit the box thinking about what he'd done. I like. Not Going to support friends, I'd rather. I'd rather go with the Trojan horse and do okay. dumbo drop. The Green acres episode the thing now. This episode, this suggestion from Jefferson Schwartz our audio o clip of the week, so we're GonNa play that right now. Okay, so. Jeff. Jeff I. Selected. Three acres that particular episode, because it was so funny, that Lisa got Oliver a gift is a bird, but in this big crate. And they needed help, so they got the monroe brothers. To open up to create, and of course, the Monroe brothers had to check their books to see what the rate was the crate rate. And then they said no state. Yeah? We have to follow. State freight crate rate. And of course they opened up the crate in something goofy side obviously. That's why I chose that green. Thank you Jeffrey for suggesting that episode of Greenacres that Super Cool. and CREEPSHOW! The crate was suggested by todd. Norris and I have to say this was one that. Immediately? Came up in my mind. Be. Not Familiar with Canoga person, so yeah of the different I anthology series. The horror. Anthology has kind of transmuted from EC comics to Stephen King through creepshow Essentially big crate. Shows up at the Biology Department of the university, and there's a a downtrodden henpecked guy. WHO. Ends up throwing his wife into the crate to be victimized by the thing that's inside of it so. Great great movie and Jamie Mallory. Back that one up, Madagascar from Ricky results a couple. Folks suggested the toy with Richard. Pryor Josh Bolten House suggested that, so there were a couple of other people in our good friend Paul Lurid said. Don't sleep on the live action door explorer movie. Thanks! Spoiler. She's in the crate. Sh super cool so I want to thank all the people who were kind enough to suggest on our. Crowd crowdsource the. Different. Places where shipping great Janet, Campbell's said there's whole series shipping wars that is based on so. Yeah, okay, so dudes! This is going to be pretty easy. Since three hundred four were the same so I'm going to say a Trojan horse is. Not a container, but people perceived it to be a gift unto itself. They did not know that it was a container. So Richard is the winner because guys picked all three of the same. Plus game of thrones so. This has to be a record. For whatever episodes I think, it's been awhile since it's been a while since we've cruised through unlike this. So the good news is you guys have enough time now to listen to a second episode of ours. At least part of one. Okay so this has been rushmore I guess my name is always. Richard I'm Michael.

Richard Michael Mount Rushmore Jeff Cup Indiana Jones Rockets Michael Winfield Wylie Coyote Michael That facebook Intel Indiana Cooper Font ARCUS acme industries Steven Spielberg Washington Michael Honey
Spoken Word Poetry Podcast Sits Down with Musician/Poet/Artist Leo Crandall on Meet the Artist/Poet Series

Spoken Word Poetry

37:51 min | 11 months ago

Spoken Word Poetry Podcast Sits Down with Musician/Poet/Artist Leo Crandall on Meet the Artist/Poet Series

"Welcome to the spoken word poetry. Podcast listen in as poet and artist. Ariana terry features words written from her heart and performed from her soul every week. You will hear original poetry spoken through performance art and storytelling. Listen weekly on anchor. Spotify apple itunes and i true stories and poetry. Exactly what the soul needs. Learn a and so things june to me you on who were law cannot say. It was the church and a do omar dave welcome to spoken word. Poetry podcast today. I have leo crandall who is both a poet. Musician in artists He's been in quite a few places I will let him talk about that in. I have already talked to him a little bit before him and have told him about hosur so if anyone out there has heard of her i believe he kind of has that vibe. So i've listened to leo. Check out that one as well. And i would like to welcome leo crandall today. Hello leo. I'm doing all right. How are you great. Yeah we we need good days during this time right. Yeah i've done yes. I've done a lot of staying at home. I saw you had to show back in february. Hopefully you were able to do that. But i don't know about shows as of recent nothing. Nothing i've got a couple of thumb. Somebody for michigan contacted me about zooming concert some spring. But that's about it so i'm sort of beginning work on my own kind of video. Songwriting podcasts worry. Jacobs song and kind of talk about the influences. But that's still that it hasn't even hit my own computer. Hey it's okay to plan stuff. Brain mean most riders. The nobody wants to know what's going on up there in our head right. Yeah i have about a million. They say a variety. It's like computers when you have a million tabs open. So that's what trough it's for sure yeah I myself We are both riders in on. We used to go to conventions. I thankfully we both have daytime jobs so I work at a church is administrative assistant in. He works in a nursing home. So bluto service work which has made us essential so We've had that going but we do miss getting out there and seeing our convention family So it's been pretty rough and in both of us are kind of high risk so we haven't been out in public as much either. You've gotta do the wise thing which is not always the pleasant thing that it is quite sure but hopefully You've been able maybe least to find some time to create while you've probably been at home and maybe not out on the road is much. I'm assuming i created so much more this ask because it's just it away gotta same for all of its For all of its challenges. I've just got. I had so much more time. To tell ya my. You're creative work in that part of it has been really fantastic but yeah i'm ready to get back out there. Well you know all of us. We've always complain about not having a time so we finally got a year where we've had plenty of it rustles. That issue like social obligations. Eighty do at thursday jason in that. Now it's like you know that part of that went away a lot less of social Pressure out for sure So let's start talking more about you. Why don't you give my audience. Although background by yourself. I will include your link in the show. You know our show description. But i would like you to tell our audience about yourself. let's see i started. I started my artistic life. When i when i was nineteen. I got a job outside chicago full musician teacher and i made my living as as guitarist in chicago for something. Like twelve or thirteen years It was it was a great gig a but during that time. I decided that i wanted to go back to school. And i don't know how this happened because i was. I was in obsessive musician. when i was in school i just found a real love of linguistics and language so i was taking. I was minoring in latin. I was also taking now studying anglo saxon which i which i still use today my work and also translated us old. Norse i came at it. I came at language really. I mean i. I was an english major. I've i've focused on. You know english before chaucer but ila translation of latin anglo-saxon and from there i moved to a whole different career working in arts administration word for symphony orchestras. Oh have often that. Iran a an art center and then it worked in an arts council developing grant opportunities for artists But all the time. Of course. I put my own work aside and I ended up. Because i just have a lot of interests. Also making films filmmaker. And i ended up teaching some film classes at syracuse university. And a number of years ago. I was just missing it all so even though i was working i got the band of the country markers and the the markers were upstate. New york band. We did tour africa job. Really got me back into music. And at that time. Because i'd been a musician for so solemn and i really put my scholarship behind me but as the band like some of the band moved away in just people started. Thought are really should be a songwriter and poet. Because i know a lot about music. nola poetry. That's when i started writing songs in earnest and then i really began to focus on the lyrics. Because i feel so many musicians. They focus on their musicality in a good thing to do. But they're they're lyric running for instance. One of the first things i noticed is almost. None of them haven't editor. Oh man every other every writer every poet every novelist every every graphic novel writer. Every you know they. All have editors not well. I'm going to get an editor. Because i just need because i wanted to be stronger. So that's how. I kind of started on my gas. A number of years ago in joe's just released a cd and completed by nights during the had come halfway through my ex. Wow that's awesome. So that's that's kind of by this kind of my great. Wow you've had quite a history. It sounds like you've been very busy. It's it's it's been a busy busy but good. Yeah so. I know you said you've been like a teacher artist. Musician poets bit like as you were growing up. What do you think you were. I mean we're you like a writer. I or musician i mean i'm just curious nelson. We're all outsiders outside. But i was musician. I okay so. I became really obsessive about it. I was playing Playing stand up bass in school orchestra and then somebody said hey you know if you had basically towers the same instruments sideways it by dead bass guitar and i was just gone just learning every song i could learn. I got the band. Just douse my life for For a long time afterwards divinity for it but then. I also starting to find more out of the way music and dome. Scholarship and poetry gave me a little bit later. Okay so how did you get into poetry. I mean when you write music and lyrics kind of poetry already anyway so it means how did you make the transition or actually made the transition. It's a quirky story but When i was i was fairly young. When it's twenty one. Or so. I'd already been making living assistant for years. I i felt somehow. Because there's some people that i met that i was on educated so i decided to educate myself on school. Also i started to trying to teach myself latin and reading shakespeare in aristotle and the medieval said and i found that i just absolutely loved it and so eventually after three or four years after living like hermits. Nothing to school and just I thought i was going to hate it. And i love my professors role very smart very helpful. They also love scholarship and it was a great experience for you had some great authors. Who doesn't not like shakespeare interesting because they come back. I don't wanna say to haunt me. They'll come back they both. They'll show up in my work your songs. I don't know what a quite know where this is going into the line from shakespeare you know Hem stepfather says you know all of habits fully rankin can my away popular grab that line. Oh yes songs about so So yeah the saxon poets. They they have yes. They have beautiful literature. I mean how could you not you know. I mean this. Sounds like they kind of show up as muses in your work in will do the ham you know it's it's The show up in all kinds of ways offers through a lot of kind of outweigh authors. Or you know anything any anything that that is interesting me. I always stop and say okay. This is you're interested in this reason. Oh yes so explored finding. Write it out you know. Maybe next week. I'll be throwing it away. If aligned. my guest shows up. I stopped everything. Yeah definitely some your best work kind of comes when it just shows up when you're least expecting it you know and that's what was happening to me is a writer like i'll be sitting either at night or i'll be attracted watching a movie or i hear song and i get lines and he just come to me and i always feel like those are if i probably your best lines gold. Yeah they're golden. I would say the same thing happens to me musically walking out you see your easy. Yes yeah a why documented. Remember in work it. Yes i get that I started learning to play the piano if years ago. And then i started writing some of my own music and i'm glad that you said that because i hear songs on my head and i don't know where they came from like i will hear like the vocalist and you normally learning to play the piano and keyboard but i will hear like other background instruments but like the lyrics. And it's like you're hearing a song on the radio and it just comes to me. It's so weird. Yeah i think you know. It's interesting because people people get those kind of audio visions if you will in different ways so people. 'cause i had a long discussion with france. Some people like you they here like the whole texture Like you're the whole thing. Here's the piano when the vocals in the basin in like for me. I hear lines just here. This is how the line and it's just the so some people here. Think align this vertical line. Yes yeah so now. You know that. I'm actually talking to another musician. I don't feel so crazy. So i used to worry about hearing. Probably most of us artists and writers are anyway. Kid has to prove your degrees. Yeah so. I'm interested in hearing some of your work I you know some was emailed to me. And i really liked the sound of some of it. You said you were going to read some of it. So how about you go ahead and do that and maybe talk a little bit about yes. I'm gonna i'm going to start. I'm going to reach century things off my last release which is called unknowable and stunning thing. And how do you come up with your titles. Just curious let title is actually a line from this song. Okay what what am i song. So the widow and it came. I was i was actually exchanging correspondence with my editor. Joel and quiet and i was telling her about this kind of film clip. That i saw i was i was describing the tour and i said you know it's a thing that is that it's it's an unknowable. And stunning thing. And she said oh. That's such a great title of for that moment where you don't really understand this thing that has power stuns. You is no way to know it really so you just experience it so often does our great go ahead read away. I'm gonna start really things off that. Al was a collaboration with my friend. Hymie widow who's a percussionist and he was in my band against her markers and he and i decided to do sort of duo album. I mean i wrote all and stuff and He's he's more mental neshat. Drug kinda guide cool. He's also very musical. So so the first thing i'm gonna read is called there is did. That was my favorite. Oh great thank you so a couple of things about it. I don't know if you wanna give us the details but just a few things. I think i was kind of musing about things that lodge in me that i seem to think about. I don't quite know why something students on things down. That was a notion. Another another thing i was i was thinking about the word and the notion of watchful and what it is wonderful. This is and what is to be. Watchful it also. What kind of state you're in. You're not really an open stage. So if you're in a condition of watchfulness it is a sort of a hampered cautious condition and the last answer was inspired by One of the letters of samuel beckett. I was reading. So let me. Just get an and read There is a win. Great there is a wind gathered by the branches. And so these things are drawn into me and that is where i tend to. I don't know why they route. So deep is raining. Freezing in the air where i walk i cannot help would say these things. They disappear back into the rain back into the red. It was the memory that changed me the reckoning the made me watchful everything it was it wasn't i can hardly find one useful word into word would only be one more thing running through my veins. Just one more thing running through my veins Yeah i really like that. And and i will be sharing the one new report it to lyrics absolutely beautiful and i like your the way you seeing like your voice in the music the accompaniment you have with. It's just awesome so much you're welcome. The music is kind of discoverable in the same way. I never quite know what it's going to be in. You know that was an interesting one because speaking by friend. Hymie to my. I don't know if this one really needs much. Much of a drum set was like please please please let me put some drums on the end like it and the drugs are just killer there circa so i'm glad i you know i'm glad i kept open changes so most definitely yeah. Let's see this is a this is. Am also offense sale. It's called ruby at my heart to This was a song that i worked on. An all time worked on the lyrics awfully long time and it went through an awful lot changes probably a couple of years It was initially called ruby in my chest. But i didn't want people to think that it was a metaphor for the heart. Gotcha really this hard and beautiful durable thing inside of us that when we're young it isolates i uh speaking of being an outsider but as we grow older than we draw strength from. So let's see. What else would i like to say about this I think own yeah trying to think of anything else that was reading. Oh there is a reference in here to my helmsmen from the past is helmsman which six is actually a metaphor that comes from the saxon poets. Which i mentioned and I was also reading. Some of isaac israeli. He's written a short history of gloves. And so i was reading this. And so that sorta found its way so us is all the skull ruby ruby in my heart. You can keep the sky. I wouldn't even care. I hear lonesome border wall. So faint it hangs tinsel in her hair vaguely at the wall could not stay or go. And i've suffered at the hands of both both my friends and foes. I've been thinking of a place where the shadows fall away in heaven merges into earth been number place shake loose shake loose the winds. Let it touching each thing the winds. What guides me now and drew my helmsmen from the past this ruby in my heart darkly gleaming. Now this ruby. There's a table in the sun. Where i know recall her brooding turkmen bracelet weighing on her wrist in the garden in the heat. She wants to call for glove in the room. She did me that passing from skin-to-skin with nothing in between i've been thinking of a place the shadows fall away and having merges into earth shake loose. Shake loose the winds and let it touch each thing. The winds what guides me now cloaked in true by housman from the past is ruby in my heart darkly gleaming now darkly now. That's really beautiful. That's awesome thank you. Thank you and that definitely does take you back. I read on your site that you want your work to kind of take people back to another time and transport them in a way and you can see the exchange of the rose between the two and and you can just feel the wind. You know if you're really close to nature. And i i know i am. I mean there's a thing about like standing out of the woods or just outrageous in feeling the wind it touches you in distance. I mean how it touches everything else wants. I mean. I know some people may not really thinking of that. But it's kind of amazing how you can almost just become a part of all of that together absolutely and it's interesting because i think that's what all the meditation aficionado serve so living in the moment living your body and feeling him when you when you stand out of the wind. I mean that's white. We're it takes you. Yeah genuine presents. Feel your body in. You're not looking to the future experiencing. Yeah pretty deep i. Can you know. I've got a short run. If you look ahead one more great or you know. I get on these tears for awhile. Last year i was writing lullabies of nobody writes those anymore so i wrote this lullaby Somewhat darker all by a i had seen a a poster by a cartoonist. From around the turn of the century guiding windsor mckay designing posters to get young young boys to enlist and so after the loose attain. You a song. He made a poster of the woman floating underwater. The baby and the catcher was just enlist so who served tugging on everyone's strings. Sh what i saw. I wrote this. I wrote this lullaby and actually the theme got used movie. Wow that's making the independent circuit right out. Just one awarded romania rome. That's awesome This is called you. Sailor boys tonight. I'll join you su- boys at the bottom of the sea. I'll sing with you forever. More sing evermore with me will make a necklace of our bones in the stoney lonesome deep. So tonight i'll join you sailor boys at the bottom of the sea. The that's kind of deep. Even a short is this. I mean who say their souls aren't down there somewhere you know i mean and they're all meeting each other after everything's over. I mean it makes perfect sense. Thank you i mean. One of the things. I i play was one of the things is very fun at times. Very challenging is okay. What kind of music does this require in so that music i made it like a little child stems very simple very easy. Sometimes i play the music against tied take glorious. That are very dark. Very quiet waltz or vice versa. so it's a it's another sort of tool that are jewel box makes music ya in. The lyrics is sort of interesting to who's to say that you won't make like a collection of dark lullaby. you could do like a small album of dark lullabies or else you can go along with it Like a small book. You know a trap. Book of dark darko. Bison and someone illustrate like like nursery rhyme book kind of bet dark lullabies instead and have it will straighted ultra great idea. Yeah yeah i mean. I'm writing in my. My next release is going to be a series of like secular hymns. 'cause i didn't My family did not grow up a religious family But musically i just i just love him so i just wrote a series of him of the very. You know how they are. They've got this beautiful very simple kind of feel so. I just had written a number of hymns actually all of them so at some point in going to release that'd be awesome. Awesome cool Before i i in this Is let people know where they can find you on the web You know and how they can listen to your music. I will definitely have your website in my show description but is there anywhere else. Like you're you're on any websites all the usual suspects for for down for digital course spotify you can use them and amazon and all over the place I sell some merchandise gotta a handmade letter. Press book of my laird seafood unique. Yeah you can get a band camp. You can buy hard copies on band camp and cd baby or you can just go to my website. You click on their social media. I am yeah. I'm on facebook instagram twitter. But i don't use much twitter. So yeah i'm on there but i tweet stuff you know this. Hey check this out. I'm i'm sort of instagram guy. But i'm i'm post you know there's something excited about a post thirty seconds of a to some of the lyrics. I'm doing this. Have you heard of reverse nation. Okay you might check that out. I've i've myself things on there You might be pretty good in Your john over there. I think you should check it out and see what you think. Most definitely i will. Yeah yeah i'm not. I don't get anything for that. I don't can eat sponsoring me or anything. It just a website that i like and i like sharing my work on and i just thought i'd share it with another. You know Poet and musician and whatnot. And there's a lot of artists on there and you can check out their work. You can post your work. It's pretty neat awesome. Well it's been a pleasure talking to you. I loved actually hearing you recite your poems. I mean i. I you know i i listen to seeing them of course but sometimes it's different to hear it's set to music and then to recite it gives it like two different feelings so i yeah and i. It was nice to hear that. So i think you should definitely sometime when you have time. You'd even a recording of you reading those. I mean that's great. If this whole i used to run a poetry cirque awesome. I've learned a lot from poets. They're very courageous. Look it up and say all these personal things. And that's that factor into my you know what music writing is i'm gonna be. I can't be any less courageous. Those poland was so yes. I can tell you day. Definitely have that deep feeling really touch somebody. You have touched that personal aspect. So sure i guess so again for coming on spoken word poetry podcast. It's it's been awesome. Leah much so grateful buckets thrills of beyond screens. Yeah i mean. Nobody else gets to see but i was great to actually be. Yeah it was neat to meet you too Maybe if i ever had an opportunity to actually record the video but audio's great to definitely no. I'll have little see you play out. We can't even put a link. You have some youtube videos of you playing so Opera that two people can people can see you awesome. Thank you again. You have a wonderful day. Lille your you're welcome by sir If you are enjoying listening to spoken word poetry podcasts and you just might enjoy poetry. Written by area or cherry. You can buy her books on amazon. Visit your website at ariana arch. Cherry dot wordpress dot com Little school the house of the widow is ru single. Big handful you does this round. It was in some Aca man ill to me. Really windy is devotion pilots pollution. Sing this luge. There's a lifting in the desert from liz warden. Loss sing noble who Because it and

leo crandall Ariana terry omar dave hosur Hello leo Hymie nola poetry shakespeare chicago syracuse university Jacobs isaac israeli rankin michigan housman jason apple latin Iran nelson
New Zealand in shock after massacre in mosques

PRI's The World

45:22 min | 2 years ago

New Zealand in shock after massacre in mosques

"Support for the world's podcast comes from legalzoom with over seventeen years and more than two million customers. Legalzoom provides helpful support legal advice entrance. Parents you for business owners. More information at legalzoom dot com slash world. A nation in shock today on the world. I'm Marco werman deadly attacks on to mosques in New Zealand have shattered that country sense of security things. Like this just do not Harpen here. So people are in a state of shock and half a world away here in the US a sense that violence against a faith community is all too familiar. It feels like it happened right here right down the street in some ways. Also on the show today. American kids joined the global movement to demand action on climate change. I would pay our tic- environment and climate change in all matter interests like feminism because it's like impending doom while other things could wait a little longer. She makes a pretty good point. The stories are much more today here on the world. I'm Marco werman. This is the world. It is clear that this is one of New Zealand's dacas te dice. That's new Zealand Prime Minister just send a darn what has happened here is an extraordinary and unprecedented act of violence. It is unprecedented and the voices of witnesses and survivors underscore that what some of them saw in Christ Church as you're about to hear is hard to listen to always grabbing just outside the mosque. And I saw Tamar writes lots of people running and running for the laws. They're not sit well something's happening here. And then the Knicks Secondly was record for and these people whipping not down lateen pens run opposite where all driving sold them thing from behind and I was wanting to the ground hitting shooting shooting shooting. Mike good here screaming. The crying. And so some people were, you know, drop dead in. Some people who are running away. I wasn't the whom cheer. I could not go anyway. And also I didn't want to because I was afraid what was going to happen to the ladies. What was going to go into my wife suddenly from the window, which was on my left gunshot came in? And and I could see people getting hit in the head and shoulders and the legs and everywhere, and I was just reading that. I might get hit to keep checking my legs and body that if I'm had to not so I close my eyes, and I tried to call home. So that I could talk to them for the last time because that's what I felt right now that I should talk about sharp. And the worst thing most we couldn't get greedy Melissa's, but they couldn't get your son in the other guy could see was he was in bad shape. But I couldn't get to him. 'cause that was weird directly. The gunfire was coming from. I'm sixty six Neva thought of my lot for the to see somewhat this. No, the New Zealand. I cannot believe is what I saw today never expected because I I've been living here for five years. And that is news as one of the safest country. But I'm so scared now survivors and witnesses of the massacre at two mosques in Christchurch New Zealand four suspects have been arrested their messages suggests they were driven by white supremacy things like this just do not happen here. So people are in a state of shock jussie Daniels is a reporter with radio station. News talk said be in Auckland. We see these things on world news. Every turn on the TV. We say things in America. We say things in the UK Paris lies big names, but night, no one thought that Christ's church will be added to the list here in New Zealand. This is unprecedented for us not only have way never had a terror attack. We've never had a mass shooting of this size. The last major shooting event in New Zealand would be in nineteen ninety eight that was huge. And that was nearly thirty years ago. A minister. Into our during said in a national dress. We were not chosen for this act of violence because we condone racism we were chosen for the fact that we are. None of these things it was because we represent diversity in kindness. What do New Zealanders here when they hear that with the majority agree with that statement in twenty nineteen absolutely majority would agree with that statement. New Zealand is a renowned for the kindness for the organise, especially when it comes to different coaches. I mean, there's not Bain any animosity towards different groups like the husband a Papp's in our cousins in stride yet. But here it's completely out of the blue people have asked me today has there been this underlying kind of want supremacist nationalists kind of group just just waiting in the shadows. But no, I don't think they has this is caught everyone by surprise Muslims represent less than one percent of the population in New Zealand, but do these Muslim. Zealanders run into a lot of Islam. Phobia mean had there been any concern among the community that an attack might happen? Could happen. No. And I mean, we talk to the Muslim community here in New Zealand when something happens overseas just to check in with them saying people being crow towards year. Kyw? What do you think and not not not really anything of this caliber reporter Chelsea Daniels? In Auckland, the news from New Zealand is devastating. Dozens of people gathered at two mosques murdered Friday is the day of worship and weekly services at mosques. And so when American Muslims woke up to the news this morning on a day of prayer it hit especially hard to hear a tool dude as a board member of the council on American Islamic relations here in Massachusetts. I think the initial reaction has been shock and then Hora because you know, as details come out in. It's my seventeen year old who breaks news to me this morning as to how many casualties there were. And how veal this was for her even though it's a world away. The attack was designed to be in our faces. And that is actually the result that we're saying it feels like it happened right here right down the street in some way. He's I mean, one of the roles of religion, of course, is to bring people together on a day like this. Sometimes just want to crawl away and not be a part of anything. No, I feel especially with my experience dealing not only with anti-muslim sentiment. But watching this growing rise of anti religious sentiment. I as weaponized that people want to be together when these things happen when the attacks happened in Pittsburgh of the synagogue people came together in vigil when Dylann roof massacred black worshipers in the south people came together in vigil. And that's what I see. And I think that's also was healthy for people. But is it safe to be together? By thinking about the Birmingham church bombing in nineteen sixty three ten years before I was born that did not deter people from worshiping that did not deter people from gathering and fighting from a spirit of activism. That was led by faith. So we know that there's risk. We know there's exposure, but will that deter people from gathering, I most certainly hope not. And in fact, it has the opposite effect on me. It makes me want to be in community at the house of worship even more. So so I'm curious to know what you think of this one detail from New Zealand that really struck me the police they're telling members of the public to stay away from Moscow because of security concerns. I mean, do you worry that's letting extremists have their way? Oh, I think it it certainly does in the things that it also compounds 'isolation, and I think the that becomes the tragedy without having a strategy behind why you might say to someone don't gather at this moment seems like you're giving into fear, and that I reject that I reject so you're an attorney to here, and you represent Islam Berga a Muslim community in upstate New York that has been threatened by white supremacists. And we're we're seeing this narrative again in new. Zealand. We believe our government's doing enough to address white extremism and white supremacy. The greatest threat to the United States of America is white supremacy. It is white nationalism. We're seeing that manifest here in our country. But we're also seeing it manifest globally, and we need to as a citizenry push and support our public officials pushing support department of Justice in identifying and pursuing the proper threat. So no, the government is not doing all that it can do it needs to fund and continue the research and continue to root out white supremacy. Wherever it exists in particular where it poses a violent threat to other Americans and people throughout the world today being the Islamic day of prayer. Can I ask you what you're thinking about and praying for today, I'm thinking about my listen, my children, go to a very small Muslim school and on Fridays. They opened doors to the public for Jim. Rare. And I would not be telling the truth of I told you that that that I wasn't worried and I'm not worried as I'm worried about that. But I don't that fear. Keep me from setting up to school. But. It's a scary scary thing. That's a scary thing to hear a tool. What dude aboard member with the council on American Islamic relations here in Massachusetts? Really? Appreciate your time today. Thank you. Welcome. Thanks so much for reaching out later on the world how social media amplified the terrorist attack in New Zealand. It's been six years since this song was unavoidable. When Cy came out with gum, numb style. It brought K pob to the global stage. Even western music fans, couldn't resist the charm of Korean pop music. But now the bond between fans and their music idols is damaged sprawling Cape Cod. Scandal has rocked South Korea allegations of sex crimes and police collusion tied to nightclubs one musician caught up in the scandal soon gre-. He's with a boy band called big bang to understand why this news is so big we turn to journalists. Kelly Casula 's I do think it was a shock in general just because the main K pops are that we're talking about sim Ray, he's really kind of beloved and South Korea. I mean just a few weeks ago before all this happened. I remember seeing him on a variety show on television and a person next to me three times his age really was just talking about how much she loved him. And like leave a great thing for South Korea. He's really so admired across generations. So in that sense. It is really surprising that he would be involved with all this. But the same time South Koreans are definitely becoming more aware of sexual assault. The issue of filming woman forming sex acts or being raped without their knowledge and consent of that film. There's been a lot of issues about. Spy cameras in bathrooms. I mean, it does kind of play into the metoo movement and the whole theme how are Korean women seeing this a lot of Korean woman have wanted these capes ours out of the band's altogether. The moment that these allegations for surface pretty much all the SARS involved have either resigned from the entertainment industry or been kicked out from the company representing them. And a lot of kapot fans as well, South Korean female activists have been additioning for this demanding this on social media. And I think that's definitely a part of this greater me to move them out for this scandal. Go, you know, I think that there will probably be more probes in the future. As far as celebrities k pop stars. Go already South Korea has been experiencing kind of this general trend of crackdowns on rich families wealthy families in Valencia, people company, CEOs, etc. In the last couple of years. So it's really interesting. I think that in south. And the rest of the world. There's kind of this growing case for how power and money can so easily be abused in this country as well as the issue with influential people, you know, affecting law enforcement. I mean, right now, we have a police official at least one who is being accused of covering up a drunk driving incident involving a k pops are as well as helping keep this nightclub and it's shady activity under wraps for a long time. So I think if anything were just gonna see more suspicion more investigations journalists killing Casula insult. Thanks very much for talking to us today. Yeah. Thank you. So. Just ahead the college admission scandals. Yeah. There's actually more than one misses the world. I'm Marco werman. And you're with the world operation varsity blues. That's what the FBI calls its investigation into a massive bribery conspiracy over college, admissions, it involve movie stars and see paying more than a million dollars in some cases to manipulate the college admission system for their kids. I'm here with higher education reported Kirk Karen Pezzo with our W H partners. He's been following the story as well as another big not entirely unrelated story a discrimination lawsuit against Harvard University. It has been one heck of a week for education news, Kirk what our college admissions officers telling you. Well, I think the news that a lot of wealthy movie stars and designers and CEO's were willing to pay in some cases, millions of dollars to get their kids until we'd schools shocked many of us, right? This case calls into question. The very idea that America is America Crecy, but many people who work in higher education are not surprised they say the admissions process has become such an incredible frenzy. And there's this assumption that wealthy families will try to. To buy their way in one way or the other. So that was the big news this week. Then there's the ongoing story of a lawsuit against Harvard. Kirk it's getting sued for alleged discrimination against Asian Americans. What can you tell us about that case? Right. Harvard is being sued for allegedly discriminating against Asian American applicants holding them to higher personal and academic standards. The plaintiffs say Harvard is stereotyping them as one dimensional perpetual foreigners. Harvard has denied those charges and Harvard says that Asian Americans now make up nearly a third of the students there. So how could they be discriminating against Asian Americans? And there's a similar lawsuit in California. Right. Yes. While we wait on the outcome of the Harvard case, the university of California system is facing a similar lawsuit with allegations that administrators may be considering race in admissions. Even though California bands of the practice. When he was running for California state Senate last fall Republican businessman, George Chen, says he often heard from Asian American families convinced they're being discriminated against in college admissions. So in many of the town hall meetings or public forum, they will bring this up in a will be my position the more. I got involved politically the more. I noticed that the people are really concerned about I met at a restaurant recently in the heart of a suburban Chinatown near LA. He's sixty two the son of Chinese immigrants and says he didn't realize until last year that some Asian Americans were concerned that they were being held to higher ACA democ and personal standards in college, admissions, we were told if we play by the rule word cars, we'll be rewarded. So well, we don't want is having two sets of different rules Hsien lost his state Senate race. But then formed a group that's helping fund a current lawsuit against the university of California system. A lawsuit blood. Buy a UCLA. Professor Rick Sander, along time critic of considering race in admissions the longer we're kinda -firmative action the more I think that using racial preferences is highly addictive for universities. Sander wrote a controversial book mismatch, which argues that considering race hurt the students. It's intended to help by thrusting them into top programs. They may not be economically prepared for several studies have dismissed that idea countering that qualified minorities do better in more selective schools, but Sanders stands by his theory. It's a travesty to amid students without at least providing full disclosure that. This is a problem that we're having Sander wants the UC system to give him troves of admissions data to determine whether admissions officers have secretly considered race in admissions, even though California voters banned it in nineteen Ninety-six. We're not suing the university for discrimination were soon the university for information with which we want to decide whether there's going. On if so where he points to two thousand fourteen admission study by UCLA sociologist, Robert mayor that found Asians are disadvantaged throughout the admissions process. What mayor said is that if we control for individual, qualifications, African-Americans and Latinos are systematically advantaged. There's some disturbing evidence of discrimination, which I think is very hard to dispute the university of California is disputing that evidence and states that it does not consider race ethnicity or gender in admissions. You see is the largest public higher Ed system in the US with more than two hundred thirty eight thousand students for years UC says it's used race neutral methods to attract the most diverse student body as possible admissions officials way grades and test scores, but also personal characteristics. UC says the data Sander wants isn't so easy to hand over it. Protect students privacy and isn't required by law. Do you have mixed feelings about this because as a civil rights attorney that is often questioning governmental conduct. I do believe in very open access to information recall OT is the lawyer in LA with Asian Americans advancing Justice, a human rights group Oji has been representing students who testified in support of Harvard in the discrimination case in Boston. She sees similarities between the two lawsuits both us Asian Americans. As a wedge in this debate around the use of race in the admissions process, and in both cases or Asian American groups that had never existed before came out of the woodwork to be plaintiffs OG dismisses the allegation that the university of California intentionally and systematically discriminates against Asian Americans in a state where they make up thirteen percent of the college age population. But more than one third of all UC undergrads making think it's pretty clear that Asian Americans are not being excluded from the UC system that. Raises not being used to penalize them in the Harvard. Discrimination case in Boston. None of the anonymous Asian American plaintiffs testified and during a recent final hearing judge Allyson Burrows said that was a problem in proving intentional discrimination in California. When I asked UCLA's, Rick Sander and businessman, George Jen to help identify Asian American students who claim their unfairly denied admission based on their race. None came forward. Schimdt says that shouldn't matter in this public records lawsuit. This is a cultural thing Asian go like to. Rock the boat. And Marco George Shan tells me he's convinced that the university of California is hiding something a court hearing to determine the merits of the lawsuit is expected later this year reported Kirk carapace, I'm curious the two big education stories, we're talking about here on one hand Asian students claiming they are being discriminated against on the other hand wealthy kids and their parents bribing their way into college. What is the connection between the two stories is there one? Well, those who think the consideration of race should be banned are now using the bribery case to argue that we need to completely overhaul the system now the Harvard discrimination case exposed a special list of donors and alumni who were given what they call an extra tip in the admissions process, and it's not unusual for colleges to keep such a list. How are supporters of considering race in admissions reacting to the college bribery scandal? They're outraged supporters of affirmative action say the bribery scheme, drives home, the notion that the education system is completely rigged. They say the idea of America. Agassi has turned out to be just a complete nip that the SAT and donations or in this case huge bribes act as a -firmative action for rich white kids. I mean, I gotta say the notion that there is not America Crecy is not totally surprising, given the contours of the whole narrative that we know, but as a higher Ed reporter Kirk does any of this surprise, you the bribery thing. Yes, I need it's surreal, right. These families were paying to have the faces of their sons and daughters Photoshop unto the bodies of athletes playing sports of their kids didn't even play dumbing that it's come to this point. Right. But the idea that parents are willing to cheat to give their kids an edge. Not a huge surprise, right? The thread that runs through all these stories. I think is he met a pressure that parents put on their kids to get into elite schools. Kirk carapace covers higher education with a partners here WGN. Thanks very much Kirk for your reporting on both these stores. Thank you. Mark coming up. How social media played a role in the terrorist attack in New Zealand? I'm Marco werman, a live streamed attack an online manifesto, the suspected killer in New Zealand posted it all online others have done. So in the past. This expert says just don't click every click every watch helps inspire the next one. We know that the copycat phenomenon Israel that story still ahead here on the world. I'm Marco werman. And you're with the world where co production of the BBC World Service PRI and W G B H here in Boston in Christ's church. New Zealand at least forty nine people were killed in a shooting attack at two mosques, the prime minister just send a journey described it as an extraordinary and unprecedented act of violence. It is clear that this canal only be described as a terrorist attack from what we know it does appear to have been well planned it was late last night US time when the news from Christ Church broke for a lot of people here in the US included. The story was everywhere in an instant on Twitter and Facebook and cable pictures and disturbing details including a video of the attack itself. Streamed live and filmed by the shooter also going viral, a seventy four page racist manifesto written it appears by the suspect himself. Now, here's the dilemma we wanna. You know, what happened and answer the question. Why would anyone go into a house of worship mosques in this case and kill innocent people? Do we watch the video? Should we re post it same goes for the so called manifesto does reading it? Tell us anything useful. And then what Zan up to factually has thought a lot about this dilemma, she studies. The intersection of technology and society at the university of North Carolina Chapel Hill, did you watch the videos, and and if so why I did not watch the video I understand why of course, police investigators and detectives are going to watch the video but for the ordinary public. There's not much information to be gained from watching the video that video was made and indeed live streamed. Exactly, so it would gather, publicity and terrorize us. So it's like a snuff film. It was made to make us watch at the murder wasn't instrument for this act of terrible publicity by mass murder. So I. Don't want to participate in that. I know the tragedy happened. I know almost fifty people have been killed. I don't need to see it too. Appreciate the human tragedy. You. So I mean the very intentional way. This attack was executed with a camera streaming live on Facebook. I mean, I want to choose my words carefully here. But are you are you saying it's like the perpetrator had thought about this like the producer of a spectacle? Was that the point in this case to me that the killer thought about it very much? So and in fact of the video was clearly pre-planning, not the first time we've seen this motive act, it's almost like infamy by mass murder in publicity by mass murder. They know that the previous killers have had their, you know, face splattered all over the news that the video so victims running away in terror have been played on endless loop. And in fact from an FBI. Investigation. We know that many of these mass murders carefully follow like they collect clippings, and they watch how the media covers it, and they also obsess over the numbers. They want to one up the last murders number almost like a video game to make sure that they get this kind of publicity. I I'm not saying we shouldn't pay attention to this. This is a terrible act of terrorism that we should pay attention to. But I don't think we should do it on the killers terms. They've they're directing a spectacle as you put it, and I don't think we need to participate in a let them beat the director so withhold the participation but say someone a private citizen is sitting at their computer in any town USA aside from the psychic toll. It takes on the viewer. What is the harm of watching a video like this? What what is your research suggest? Well, one of the things is every click every watch helps inspire the next one. We know that the copycat phenomenon is. Israel. A lot future killer is watching how the skits covered. The future killer is watching to see what it takes to get their videos and their faces on our screens whether be at our foam screens or TV screens. So that's one big problem. The second thing is it's very disrespectful to the victims to just sort of watch their egg -unny terror like that, and we don't really gain anything from it the manifest the two. It's actually a document full of search terms that clearly he thought about and hopes will lead people towards similar extremists. Hateful ideologies. So he's hoping to publicize what are basically search terms. It's almost like a commercial search engine optimization. You wanna advertise, you know, soda, and you try to get the search term out there. That's what they're doing. But they're doing by mass murder, and I feel like if we make pretty. Clear as a society as the world that this strategy is not working. That's one step. It's not the only step, but it's one step by which we can try to prevent the next month from being inspired to follow in the footsteps then up. Thanks very much for your thoughts. Thank you Marco. Then up to factually writes about technology and society at the university of North Carolina, as you know, the Trump administration has ordered US troops to withdraw from Syria and Afghantistan American commandos are also leaving parts of Africa mostly in north west and east Africa. We're talking roughly twenty countries where the US has military operations fighting various insurgent groups those battles are far from over and the US withdrawal could be a major setback. Tricia bacon is a former counterterrorism analyst with the State Department. She spoke with my colleague, Carol hills Tricia, which countries are currently spots for terrorist activity. Take us from west Africa all the way across to the. Horn of Africa in sub Saharan Africa in particular, you have sort of three major hotspots you have Nigeria and Cameroon sort of the Lake Chad basin area. You also have the Suhel area, and then Somalia and in my geria-, the primary focus is Boca haram and the Islamic state in west Africa. And then when you move to the Suhel, you have this proliferation of groups, you have a number of groups operating, and that's one of the things that has made that region, particularly problematic and we've seen this increase in violence, come with the proliferation of groups, and then when you move east, you get to Somalia, and there you also have two groups operating al-shabaab in the Islamic state. But also Bob is a very dominant organization. So you have sort of different challenges when you have one major dominant organization versus a competition of multiple groups. So there's a very different sort of threat picture in these three different areas in each one poses its own kind of challenges is a fair to say that these groups are actual. Affiliates of ISIS or al-qaeda or do they have more regional ambitions? That's one of the things that makes Gus rat difficult in all three places is you have a combination of those two things you have groups that are affiliated with Al Qaeda or affiliated with the Islamic state. But that are also very locally in regionally embedded. They are groups that have exploited local grievances have exploited local shortfalls and have been able to recruit locally based on those conditions. But they also have these affiliations with the Islamic state now Kaieda in that provides them with some cachet, it can provide them with resources, and it provides them with a line to those two organizations when they need guidance advice or assistance, what kind of role are US troops currently playing in the fight against these militant groups, traditionally they're taking on an advisor in assists and training role. We have certainly seen instances when they are involved in operations. But that's not what they're primarily there to do primarily. It's been a capacity building type of role in these places. And there are clear capacity shortfalls in all three regions that are contributing to the inability to bring this Rhett under control and make it more manageable. So is the idea for these US troops to help countries help themselves in quelling insurgencies that is the idea. And I think that that's what the concerns that people have had about the announced withdrawal of some of the troops is that it will reduce the United States ability to build the capacity of some of these military since security forces, and that's a concern because the sense is they don't currently have the capability to deal with these threats on their own. And what's behind the decision for the Trump administration to start pulling out these troops? My sense of that is that it's twofold one is that there is a downgrading of the focus on counter-terrorism in Africa. There has been sort of shift to the traditional great power concerns about China and Russia in Africa, and sort of what they're doing rather than a focus primarily on counter-terrorism, which has been the case since two thousand one but having said that I don't. Necessarily think it's specifically about Africa. We do see a desire to withdraw troops from Afghanistan from Syria from other places where there has been a heavy role in terms of counterterrorism counterinsurgency. So it's a combination of the situation in Africa sort of a change in the priorities. And I think in overall orientation of bringing the military back from some of these conflict zones. I've seen some experts suggest that Africa is the next frontier for terrorism as ISIS loses territory in the Middle East. Do you agree? I don't think that Africa is a new frontier in terrorism. I think we haven't entrenched threat in Africa that has grown even more dispersed and has a number of organizations operating at this point. So it's sort of Bolya, stab front in terms of terrorism. But I don't think it's a new frontier in terms of terrorist threat Tricia, Begum speaking with the world. Carol hill bacon is a former State Department counterterrorism analyst. She's professor at American University. So that's the satellite view of. The US military in Africa American troops have been in Somalia way before al-shabaab militants existed. Remember the nineties and Black Hawk Down movie immortalized. One of the worst days for US soldiers there that was before September eleventh after nine eleven US troops were deployed to Somalia as part of George W Bush's global war on terror and the US has never left despite the Trump administration's plans to withdraw from other parts of Africa Somalia is bucking the trend. There are roughly five hundred American troops there and US air strikes against al-shabaab are increasing. The Somali government is supposed to take over the fight eventually, but that plan has mostly stalled the world's a Mulia Shankar reports, I'll Chabad is ever present in Somalia. Kept on pretty good me. But I'm supposed to any fight. That's from shootout earlier this year at the height of its power al-shabaab controlled the capital Mogadishu at affectively ruled the country, the terrorist group was driven out of Mogadishu by African Union forces in two thousand eleven but Somalia's fight against al-shabaab is far from over the ultimate goal of the US and other foreign interests in the country is to train local forces to do the brunt of the fighting. It's a strategy. The US has used in places like if ghanistan and Iraq with mixed success, initially, the US Pinto PTS on the Somali national army, but the army has proven unreliable deep divides between rival clans have been an obstacle to creating a United Somalia. The Somali national army is an immune to these problems says oh, mama mood with the institute for security studies in east Africa on Turnley. You have issues of developing a cohesive national army that takes into account the Somali clan structure right now what you have more so is throughout the country. A collection of cleanliness militias, which tend to respond than more to the clans rather than Mogadishu or unified commander. So I think moving beyond that is a huge challenge. Then there are the issues of resources and corruption the Somali government's power wanes the further you get from Mogadishu, I'll ship fighters currently control twenty percent of Somalia mostly in rural areas in the south. They take over villages impose sharia law and even Levy taxes for a steady stream of revenue. This video from an shebab training camp shows fighters who are often better equipped and organized than soldiers in the national army only seventy percent of Somali soldiers even have weapons and in two thousand seventeen the US stopped paying salaries for the army citing widespread corruption instead, both the US and Somali governments are backing and lead group of Somali soldiers known as Dan AB or lightning. It's a force. That's intentionally made up of soldiers for many clans exclusively trained by American commandos, small quick moving done Abune. It's have had success season. Ground from L shebab the gun up battalion. That is whoa. And become more effective, George Washington University, professor Paul Williams, essentially because it's being kept separate from this messy clan. Corrupted set of politics that is sort of undermining and degrading the Somalia national only, it's not just the military. The government lacks the infrastructure to estate. Itself in those newly gained areas. Meanwhile, al-shabaab is adapting its members often infiltrate the government and army creating fear with assassinations and suicide bombings al-shabaab has also gotten more bold in Mogadishu. There have been at least four attacks there. So far this year. Washington has responded by increasing airstrikes targeting. Al Shabaab strongholds, but defeating al-shabaab requires more than just a military solution, Paul Williams again, the key problem. Here is political the reason why Somalia has not been able to build an effective national army is because there's no political consensus among some all the elites that that's what they want to try and do if you can't even agree on what you'll nation is. And how it's going to be governed. You come build an effective national security architecture until then it looks like American and African Union forces will be needed. I'm ready that's amend Hussein. He manages a hotel in Mogadishu that was attacked by suicide bomber. Few years ago. Even like us, we kinda keep continuing with count people have limits when this kind of things have been there's no backup system. This is a war on terror or Yoto kind of face these things Hussein feels he is facing these things very much on his own not sufficiently protected by his government or by foreign troops for the world. I'm Mulia Schenker. Let me take a few seconds for a quick correction to a story we aired yesterday about Japan's far right and nuclear weapons, we misstated the year that the US bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki it happened. Definitely in August of nineteen Forty-five. Tens of thousands of kids around the world. Skip school today to demand that adults do something about climate change. It's part of the growing movement of Friday protests that we told you about yesterday on the world today. American kids. Join their European peers in walking out of their classrooms. One of the protests was at the Massachusetts state house. Right here in Boston. My name is Harry, Ferguson. I'm thirteen years old art teacher told us about this yesterday. And I was and I knew I know how climates be engaged, and I realized that in a couple of years it's going to be reversible. And by that time that's pretty much Armegeddon after that. Like a lot of cities are going to be like overcome with water from the melting ice caps. And all of the pollution is could force us to stop going to certain areas. Yeah. In fifth grade. I did a climate change unit on Japan project, if my friend who's from Japan learned a lot about how some of the surrounding islands. Are you going to be affected? We did a model UN about it. I do think kids can make a difference. If people see other kids going out and protesting this they'll they'll want to join in after a while, we might have a big movement. That's going to affect the entire. I am all on alert. And I am sixteen years old. And I definitely do think kids can make a difference, especially as the next generation and ASA generation to go because we have so many resources that we can use. And if we do use that I definitely think a change could happen as end-result. So when I was in fourth grade, for instance, we had a project on climate change in what it was doing to polar bears and the ice. Glaciers are melting and the sea levels are rising and being in Cambridge responded by water, that's very that's very important because so many resources that have been stopped on the ground of Cambridge and places that are surrounded the water can be ruined in the future. My name's ceremony mouse, and I'm told you so I would like the US congress to pass the green new deal. It's a step in the right direction. Even if it's not what we need and then for them to acknowledge and sort of work towards reducing carbon emissions in stopping them as a whole and part of the Key Club at my school, which is an environmental club. And we know we're working on plastic pollution. And since our school's getting renovated. We wanna make the new school bakery. Being is a big part. 'cause I if we don't do it. We're all dead pretty soon, and I would like to live older than thirty years old. I'm nervous. And I'm also like we have to do something. Otherwise, we're all dead and nothing had like humans are dead. Like, humans are indigent rates. I prioritize the environment and climate change in front of all my other interests like feminism because it's the most it's like impending doom well other things could wait a little longer. It's other things are bad. This is the most urgent issue. To deliberate. People like they'll think, oh, whatever we don't have to deal with it. Adults will just take care of it. And I don't I think if we don't do anything about it. They won't like we shouldn't we should be in our like them class right now, we should have to here. Just they should be adult should be in charge of this. They're the grownups. We shouldn't have to act like them. Yup. I agree time for the grownups to step up or you know, what just let the kids run the show. I'm serious middle and high school students here in Boston a why they joined the strike for climate action today, it has been a long week of politics in Great Britain vote after vote after vote in the house of Commons all about Brexit and all without resolving much of anything except for this Britain will almost certainly ask the European Union for even more time to debate the terms of its departure. So the story that few people understand we'll go on and on one of our resident Brits in the newsroom. Patrick, Cox has been editing are Brexit coverage. And he has these thoughts. A lotta my American friends asked me the same question. Can you? Explain brexit. My own say, no, no one can not even Theresa May, Brexit knees Brexit when she said that two and a half years ago, and they will almost huff fussed woods. As prime minister when she said that it was like, she was inviting everyone else to define Brexit. However, they wanted to and so they did it means Brexit, strong and stable Brexit, red white and blue Brexit Brexit. Have you can eat it Brexit, you believe it's not Brexit. It's almost like the X in Brexit is the same as the X in mass is stands for anything. Okay. I thought the politicians are going to have to define Brexit. But every time members of parliament was supposed to vote on what exactly Brexit should mean. The vote was delayed which led to this wild accusation from a member of Theresa May's own ruling party, the how to debate this. We wanted to vote the people expected to vote on it. I'm the government have gone run away and hidden in the toilets. It was around this point that I started refusing to on. So the what is Brexit question? Instead, I asked myself a different one, what is Brexit feel like of old people, the prime minister of Luxembourg savvy Patel gave me a sense of that us not long ago. Whether the European Union would renegotiate a Brexit deal with Theresa May. He said that nine nine nine nine nine nine nine nine nine one hundred Busta for nuke. Don't you like how he threw a bus that in at the end like you says enough in two languages, of course, it didn't matter. How many times he said enough Brexit is still hopelessly unresolved? That's it hopeless hopeless pundit pug, a Tory. That's what Brexit fills like which reminded me of something else that conveys the feeling of this messy on again off again, geopolitical divorce. Let's go we can't why not waiting for Godot waiting for Godo Samuel Beckett. Wrote this play in French and translated it into English more than a half century before anyone after the would Brexit. It's two characters unable to make any decision whatsoever. Because they feel the need to wait for the arrival of someone else a savior Cole. Good. Oh who spoiler alert never arrives hopeless PUM pug, a Tory. We do what we do. There's nothing we can do. But I can't go on like this. Would you like radish is that all there is there are radishes and turnips? Okay. It's bleak are there. No carrots, but its aunt. No. Anyway, you overdo it with your carries, which for me makes it less Blake and give me a radish. Plus it was written by an Irishman in French. It's black. Maybe it is about Brexit. It's a radical only like the pink ones, you know, that then you don't want it only like the pink one. Then give it back to me. I'll go and get a carrot for the world. I'm Patrick Cox. This is becoming really insignificant not enough. Samuel beckett. A playwright way ahead of his time. That is our show for today. The world's theme music was composed by Eric Goldberg from an and Bill Harris studios at W H here in Boston. I'm Marco werman, take a deep breath and enjoy your weekend. Our public radio international.

United States New Zealand Marco werman Boston America Somalia Harvard University Africa reporter California Massachusetts university of California Christchurch New Zealand Kirk bribery Legalzoom Professor Rick Sander Brexit murder
Emily Edwards_FBOL_April 13, 2021

Wicked Writers

29:18 min | 7 months ago

Emily Edwards_FBOL_April 13, 2021

"Welcome to the wicked writers podcast. I'm your host rachel dubinsky. What makes someone wicked. Writer on this podcast. You'll hear from writers who have something to say with a little new england west. Wicked writers is your outlet for lifting up your voice and expressing your most creative south whether you write for fun or professionally or don't know where. Start your writing journey with kid. Writers is here for you. I hope you enjoy the conversation and stay wicked. I'm excited to have emily edwards on the pod today at she's the creator and host of the comedy. Podcast about books called fuck boys of literature. Yes you heard that right We're gonna be talking to her today about podcasts. Why it is aptly named that and the work that she's doing to promote feminism challenged. The stereotypical male figures in literature. Welcome emily hi. How are you kidding. how about yourself. Good thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to chat with you course so to get started. Tell us about why you created the boys of literature podcast lou. Well it started as a joke as most things that i do definitely do. So million years ago the writer. Sarah ben and casa asked on twitter. What character from literature would you murder if you could. It's a little bit of an un pc question. But that's okay. And i said jane eyre. 'cause i hate her jane eyre like the actual female character of jane eyre. I hate her with the red hot passion of ten thousand earnings and so someone kind of responded back to me of what about rochester. And i was like that's a given and so we started talking about the fuck boys of literature and someone said we should start podcast or someone suggested i started podcast at instill anybody's idea and it kind of went from there so we've done all sorts of usual toxic dudes from literature. We're talking about. Lord byron was our first episode to mr rochester to You know just everybody you can think of. No one is safe It's been a really enjoyable couple years doing this. I'm on my third season right now and It's just been a really great way to use the few skills that i got from my literature degree at emerson in much more fun in sort of exciting new way though from that first episode now what has been the most surprising thing that you discovered or you know rant. You've gone on how think it's really amusing. Just how much people seem to hate us specific set of books you know. You have the major. Jane austen fans who. I'm not a huge jane. Austen fan so tb on on how those are usually received but most people understand that. There's fuck boys in an jane austen novels. And then you know you. You know other major classics and major writers. But there's just a certain subset of books that people really hated and one of them. Is john knowles a separate peace. My god everybody when it man hated that book it's wild. It is absolutely wild. That is probably the most surprising sort of Response that i've gotten since doing the show for a couple of season is just how much everyone hated a separate piece when they were assigned it in middle school or high school. So i've ever read that author. But i certainly share. I certainly share your jane austen. Yeah no that's a touch and go subject for us over on the podcast because I get why people like her. And i really get why people don't so you know i. It's just that's probably the most controversial opinion i will say. We didn't episode unheard of her epistolary. Novella lady susan which came out after she died wasn't actually supposed to be released. That was amazing. That was an absolutely phenomenal book because it was just basically about a rich woman wheeling and dealing to try to get more money and it was fantastic but most of her like romance novels where everybody ends up married actor for legal. So can you define that. What makes for a boy in literature. There are common themes You know usually has a lot to do with wealth and being born into wealth and status. Witeness is certainly a huge part of it though. We're kind of starting to discuss. How you though the western canon and western expectations of wealth and status seep into areas. That were colonized by europe. So that's sort of a fun little venture that we're getting into now that we're in our third season you know and usually incredibly demanding and toxic relationships in romantic relationships. I won't say towards women because we do discuss a lot of lgbt characters on the show as well but usually speaking. It's a very demanding and uncommunicative nature in romantic relationships so those are probably the really really big ones. And contrast what would it look like if literature was more equitable and it's romantic storytelling. That that's a really good question It's really weird. Because i don't really like romance novels. And it has nothing to do with the actual romance aspect of it. It really has a lot to do with the frisky scenes that romances known for. I'm a bit of a prude. When it comes to myself but when you're talking about romantic conflict most people seem to think that conflict for romantic storylines have to come with a certain subset of abuse. And i think that that is something that is really starting to get sort of overthrown by modern romance writers which will hopefully trickle into other more less romantic aspects of literature. Hopefully you know lit thick and women to their. We'll start to acknowledge kind of what romance novels are starting to do now which is kind of have people who have been to their therapy but they still have conflict. So that's something that i'm seeing. That's really really healthy in romance novels Nowadays that will hopefully make its way into more mainstream literature. I don't like to say mainstream literature. That wasn't the greatest raising because romance the selling genre and in olive books so it is plenty mainstream. It's just you know. Now i'm just rambling definitely. I think that i didn't grow up enjoying reading. But i like now more than i can explore. Md in decide of literature. And it's probably a degree the fact that it is in these strict gender roles or isn't talking about romance necessarily as the center point of the buck. Yeah you know. I think When i was a kid romance novels. Which is where a lot of trends of understanding romantic relationship. Sort of come from and trickled out out into other genres. It was still caught in the trope of like bodice rippers and assault fantasies. And that's really not cool because you know back in the eighties and nineties. You still yet. We're not supposed to have women who wanted to be in sexual or romantic relationships. They were always supposed to you. Know in it for the ring and nothing else and that's really really taken a one hundred eighty degree about face in the last so you know. It's really exciting to see that now that these sorts of healthier sort of romance novels are chart topping. Now you know the publishing industry will start to hopefully fingers crossed. Everybody expect that from from other things you know. Like lipstick is always a different world literary fiction. You know when it's like stuff that gun in for prizes that's always going to probably have a modicum of of despair and torture and emotional distress in an up but fingers crossed doesn't always have to be you know like we've been seeing a huge crap of new books showing up that are really about. They might be about struggles with identity but they're not conflicts of identity and that's a really really lovely thing to see as a reader so let's let's turn it to your writing. Can you talk a little bit. Bow any writing projects. You might be working on sure. I am one of the very lucky few that in the last over quarantine i actually managed to land in agent which is really really nice. Yeah after many many years of struggling and querying in all sorts of manuscripts that are sitting in the proverbial drawer so she is shopping around mystery. Novel that i've been working on for the last couple years. That's really exciting so td on that. And i have all sorts of other things in the hopper as most people who have a creative brain happened to have so. I'm writing a second sort of Installment of mystery series which is a nineteen fifties girl. Friday detective jerry. It's not literary fiction and it's my favorite thing too right so i'm not anybody who's ever gonna win award or a man booker prize and that's okay. I like writing stuff. And then i have a fun fantasy series that i've been toying with with a couple of years which is strange because a fantasy reader so we will see where that goes. I'm very rigid and stuff. Like which is something. I've noticed a lot while doing the podcast. I'll start a book and that immediately doesn't sit well with me and it's very hard for me to like get over literary prejudice. So i guess my question is what inspired you to write where you writing and reading at the same time you know. Where does that inspiration. Come from. I am one of those dorks. That probably sounds really pretentious. When i say like. I've never been I'm one of those annoying pretentious. That probably has never not been a writer. I've always been writing stories in addition to doing schoolwork and stuff like that so You know it's very hard for me to turn off the writer versus reader side of the brain. I'm very lucky that i do get to read a lot and sort of source ideas and get inspired from everything that i do read whether or not. It's a positive inspiration who negative inspiration. I think that's one thing that people discount is. Sometimes you'll read a book and you'll be like jesus. I never want to write something like that. So that's been very helpful with doing the podcasts. I will admit that my time and energy has been skewed much more towards reading over the last couple years and it has been towards writing As you can imagine. When i'm reading probably one classic novel at least a week it gets. You know you have to put a lot of head space into doing that. But you know the other side is that because they don't write anything particular literary you know i get to just sit down and play with ideas and play with puzzles. That's one of the really fun parts about ready. Mystery is is that it is literally just creating puzzle for people and If you enjoy solving them then you probably will enjoy writing them. So that's one of my favorite things to kinda. Do you know literally. I just released an episode on irc. you'll poirot agatha christie's famous gentleman sleuth from belgium air with very good friend of mine and it was really nice to sit down with a bunch of books and just kind of figure out how they're done which is something. I'd probably never considered before. I started doing a podcast. Of just like everything was a story and yes everything is just a story but figuring the layers and peppering clues and what is workable in mystery. And what isn't what. The expectations of each genre are stuff. Like that it's it's really fun to sort of examine and parse out in a way that i never would have done without having the reading side of my brain being tapped into Day in and day out and you bring up an interesting point about how z's novels are structured on and that certainly is what has gotten me more into reading. 'cause i too have always found that writing is my strength But if i think about it. More from a structural. You becomes more interesting with something that i can learn to do so i wonder you know what have you learned about. The structure of different genres definitely talked about the the pieces of the puzzle for mystery Are there any other ones that you want to touch on. What's very strange. Is that when it comes to most of the books that i do the show. They are not considered genre fiction. Impli the classics and you know Spliced as much as a genre fiction does when it comes to expectations of what's supposed to happen and how it's supposed to happen. No one looks at jane eyre and goes like Why did bronte do it this way. And what am i expect for jane eyre. That doesn't really happen. People mostly just talk about like the symbolism of. I don't know something that happened in. Jane eyre and i feel like It's not really considered. It's not usually dissected as though it is a romance novel or as my guest on the episode that we did on suggested a teen horror novel which i thought was brilliant. So that's really nice is when you can put different lenses on things and sort of assess classic literature. That's usually not considered a genre piece as genre so that's something that we've been exploring a lot more. I don't know if i take as much attention on structure when it come further. Show for stuff. That i read for the show as i probably. Should you know usually when it's just something that i write. I will do like the structure and you know the expectations of just like you need the the mystery. Reveal in you know. I don't know if i do take as much because i. This is gonna sound awful but i do really come from a lot of places as though like writing supposed to be fun and reading is supposed to be fun. That's first and foremost all i wanna do. So i do resent a lot when people are like well when i think about the symbolism of you know the pencil in her room and i'm just like no i tap out i can't do it. It's just not who. I am as a reader or a writer so Maybe that's why my work suffers. You know dvd. And i try really hard not to get to you. So teric about reading or writing. I wanna know how you feel about things. I wanna know how. I make you feel. And i really don't know if there's anything more important than that when i read or when i right yeah you bring up an interesting point about how reading and writing are supposed to be fun and i think in a school setting it becomes more of an obligation than fun and i appreciate that. Your podcast is examining a lot of those pieces of literature that were assigned in school. And you know addressing the problematic elements there are you know. I think that i went to public school until college. And i don't blame teachers for not being able to make literature fun because they do you know like most public school teachers. They have an agenda like a curriculum that they have to to you. And you know it's like. I'm not william of the teachers at all absolutely not. Yeah like it's a tough gig will like you know being a writer growing up. Everybody was like oh so going to be an english teacher. And it's like no. I do not have the patience for that. Are you kidding me. I'm not a good enough person for that. So it's a. It's a tough gig to try to make texts fun and especially certain texts. That kids are not mature enough to understand but there assigned like i loved reading the scarlet letter. But i'm one of the few people in the world who frigging love. The scarlet letter but i also know that when i was seventeen or sixteen when i was reading it like i was already like a dyed in the wool feminist. Who was like already ready to like up. And the church like destroy olive puritanical society. So like i got something different out of it. That you're running the mill like non militant feminist. Probably wouldn't get out of it and most the in its written like the worst language. And it's just you just imagine what everybody with buckles on their hats and everybody's miserable and everything is terrible and it's like yeah. I get why most people don't like it wasn't until college where i was really really starting to get into tax. But you know the other problem with college is you. Don't have a lot of time in college so there were only so many things that i could read in addition to like working fulltime and all that other stuff that happened during college so i remember reading. I read a lot of plays in college. Whenever it was like. You're notre class can be a play. And i was like yes because i take forty five minutes to an hour to read that i did with my like junior and senior papers in english class in high school i was like i don't have the patients for whole book tennessee. Ads like middle march. Which is nine hundred pages long or tartu which took like ninety minutes so like i know where i was. Also i love tartufo. It is one of my favorite plays. It's just like absolutely fantastic so like you. I also lean heavily towards comedy when it comes to things that i want to read like. I love satire. I want to read you. Obviously making fun of the society live. And like i don't ever if you want me to figure out how society works or what society's ills are you better put it through the lens of comedy or i'm not going to understand it so you know that's the other which like talk about stuff that's not respected. It's like every comedy that's ever been written. So unless it was like samuel beckett so like i also do err on the side of just like i mentioned before just having fun with it is imperative and i just don't and that's all i wanna do so. Do you have any advice for people who might be either looking to start their own podcast on literature or you know trying to go through that process of querying and finding an agent querying as the hardest must ejecting thing that will ever happen to you in your life. You've spent years probably a writing. This thing that you think is absolutely brilliant and dreading over it forever and ever and trying to make it perfect and literally you will write pleading letters to eighty or more people going please. Won't you love my baby. And they say no. Most heart wrenching thing will ever happen. I will personally. I can personally say that. I appreciated much more. Scathing knows than i did of just like thank you so much for your taught the form letter that was the that was the most ejecting thing in the world of just like. This isn't a right fit for me. But i'm sure it's great you know it's just like just i'd rather you just punch me in the face. Alas people are much too polite for that. And i don't blame them so being is incredibly depressing adu- you will lose steam. There were times where. I just didn't query for months on end just because like you. My ego was kicked very heartily in the stomach. And i just couldn't do it anymore so i really probably queried this first book probably on an offer two years each time working on it hopefully getting feedback and working on it further just a very very difficult process the pitch process that your agent takes on for. You is slightly less dejected. But not by much. So i mean like say like you have to really want it. You have to want it so bad you feel crazy honestly just like a rabid raccoon levels of warning. Which like if it doesn't mean a lot to you then like publishing kindle. That's what i do with my first two books. You know what i mean so you have to really really really be prepared for querying and i don't think there is anything that can prepare properly for it. At least i didn't experience anything that properly prepared me for it. So there's that starting a podcast is much easier at a much kinder all. I can tell you that like man. If you love your own opinion and thinks that you're great podcasting is the place for you self-esteem boast for me of just kind of like i know what i'm talking about and i feel like i'm smart so let's start a podcast and just talk to people about stuff and it is incredibly heartening until you get your first really crummy review and then you just get. I don't know about you but my main motivator in reaction to things despite so when you know i got a really lousy review or just some absolute moron dude is just kind of like in the comments saying nasty things. I get really burned up. I turned into a little seem engine of anger. And i'm just like well. I'm going to do it better at more. So that if you need a creative outlet in these times where you have a lot of anger and don't know what to do with it start a podcast cast for angry people literally so some of those people who provide those negative reviews. What do you think especially the dudes saying stuff. What do you think are some of the undertones there. There is such a stark contrast between those who are obviously dudes and those who are obviously not. I use dudes very specifically young. Know exactly who were talking about. You know when it's girls. And i assume younger girls who leave me bad comments. It's usually because like we scathed on a character they really really like and i don't blame them like you know. It hurts when people don't like stuff. I like to so feel free meal as review. I made fun of ron weasley or something like that. I don't really care but dudes man. It is a forgive me for using the word because it might bring them to you like moths to a flame. But it is like a real like gamer gate. Like subset of just kind of like it from a real nasty place i can deal with lake actual critique what i mean where. It's just kind of like well. You said this one thing but you don't know the actual historical context. I don't know the historical context. I'm an idiot so I don't mind that at all. I will totally admit when. I am like factually wrong. Or am i getting like the wrong thing of something because i don't have all the information i never have all the information. That's fine but you know. Like i get a lot of stuff whereas like again i will reiterate the title of my podcast is fuck boys of literature. So you know what you're getting and my favorite thing is when i give them exactly what they should be getting and they get mad. I don't know what to do with that. That's just the most delightful thing in the world so you just make one of them on twitter. It's fantastic boy like that. It drives you to want to do more. Because i think that there's you know can't slow culture. That is like all right. You should be out but just because you're dissecting these problematic relationships and characters you know the people who put the super negative comments you know might not be worth worth dealing with them. But i think that maybe you also get people who come to your defense as well. Yeah that's been really nice. Is that especially on youtube. Because i put on my shows on youtube as well because most people a lot of people don't like pod catchers and man that is a cesspool that is just an absolute sessile dudes but the good news is is that because what the show does is something that people really do emotionally connect with a lot of people don't realize they've had these thoughts and feelings tucked away since high school. And the show really taps into like you know like we haven't done this yet but like huck finn didn't sit right with you when you were fifteen. But you didn't have the words exactly yet to articulate. Why and so. A lot of this feels like therapy where you go back and you go like. Why did i hate this so much when i was a child. And it's like we'll because like there's all dri list of stuff that's wrong with it you know and it's like it really. People really emotionally connect with the show in that way so especially if you are someone who was always sort of a progressive thinking again. Didn't have the skills or or language to express those feelings when you were probably in public underfunded public high school like i was you know it's really become sort of a rallying cry for people and it's just really funny to have you know 'cause i use my name you know what i mean like. I don't hide behind another name. I use my name for everything by twitter handles. I introduced myself. I talk about where i live. Maybe not the specific street. But i talk about you. Know living in los angeles stuff like that. So i don't hide and that's one thing that actually really bothers me when we do get nasty reviews or youth comments it's always just like star wars reference to you know like sixty nine hundred sixty nine and you're always just like you coward so it's been really nice to sort of grab them all. I'll share the really agree. Just ones on twitter and most of the time. It's just really nice to know that you're not alone when people call you really nasty names of just like you feel kinda like you have your gang. Oh friends behind you. Who are just like that is not a correct critique. That is not a nice thing to say this person's just working through their issues and your comments section and you don't have to listen to it. It's very affirming in a way that i never thought i would have a community as an adult you know. Like when you're walking through your high school corridors and someone says something really nasty to you like hopefully you'll have a friend by your side. Federal help with the situation. You don't get that a lot as an adult. You know what. I mean when you go to work and your bosses just like hey your work is crap like what do you do you. Just turn around and go like i guess. My work is crap. But when you're making a podcast which is a lot of work for no reward. It is really nice to have the community after a little while. That'll be there to be like your little girl gang. it's nice. it's just in a way that i never thought would happen as a thirty five year. Old adult woman. That's really what it's all about is finding your community for sure on. How do people get in touch with you. emily We are mostly on twitter at fuck boys it that's b. o. s. and you can find all of our links and things like that fucked as of late dot com and on twitter all the time because it's just a really lovely and terrible place to be most of the day but by large like it's just been really really fun to explore that and You know put out a new show every week. Definitely tune into the fuck boys of the literature. Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. I want to thank you. Emily for your your humor and your ability and honesty all the alliteration. Or no i. I'm a big alliteration girl. So here we are. You know it was great to talk with you. And i think something in this podcast is always about writing and how it can challenge the status quo and picking that apart with you fun. Thank you so much for having me. I'm a firm believer that In the you know the bond mont from dead poets society of just like written word is the only thing that has ever changed the world so as well analyze it and have fun with it. Thank you for listening. Wicked writers or wicked. Here's as some may call themselves. You can find out more information about podcasts. At www dot wicked writers dot org. You can visit us on anchors spotify podcast wherever you get your. Podcasts wicked raiders. I'm also on thread. List selling some march and hope that you like Show enough to buy some merch. And that's wicked. Writers dot threatless dot com as well as we have newsletter. I try and keep it a weekly or biweekly trying to not flood your in boxes. But sometimes i can't help it and the website for newsletter is wicked riders dot sub stack dot com and as always feel free to email me at hello at wicked writers dot. Org stay wicked.

jane eyre Jane austen rachel dubinsky emily edwards emily hi Sarah ben mr rochester john knowles Novella lady susan Lord byron twitter Austen destroy olive puritanical soci emerson casa lou rochester tb new england