4 Episode results for "Sam Selman"
Effectively Wild Episode 1586: Duke it Out
"Hello and welcome to episode fifteen, eighty, six, effectively wild a baseball podcast fan graphs presented by. Supporters I am Ben. Derek Ringer joined by Miller of ESPN BELOW SAM. Can I give you my favorite phone back today sure. The giants and the brewers currently are tied in the standings. They have slightly different winning percentages because they play different number, but they're they're tied in the standings and like maybe a half game out of the playoffs each and if you were to take the brewers team leader in opie s plus he would rank ninth on the giants. The giants we're talking about the giants here. We're not talking about the dodgers. We're not talking about the Yankees were talking about the giants have eight hitters better than the brewers best hitter this year while yeah. We've been calling them the chaos giants on the Ringer Milky Show because it just it looked like they weren't going to be very entertaining. You're very. Good and then they just keep winning and they blow people out and they have people having all of these really surprising seasons especially offensively, which is what you're talking about. So I don't know what to make them, but it's pretty wild season. Can you name to giants relievers? I, mean, can you name one but can you name to giants relievers? Oh Gosh. no. No I mean really I come from a I come from giants household I live in the West Coast I have a lot of acquaintances who talked about China if anybody should sort of like Kinda know the giants bullpen, you know I it should probably be me and You know you got your Tony Watson and you got your trevor got and then and then, and then it kind of gets a little like Juan de Peralta is on this team and he's thrown sixteen innings in relief person named Caleb Bara Dr Never Heard of Sam Selman Scott My name never heard of him. Connor Minez has pitched eleven innings for them Tyler Rogers who is the less famous rogers twin song that team Harlan Garcia I, saw yesterday for the first time on this team another Sam same coon rod anyway. Yeah. The bullpen is the reason that they're tied with the brewers Kaz. The bullpen hasn't been very good but eight hitters better than Christian. Yelich this year. Well. Evidently. It's kill a barrier I believe hardly a household name anyway. Yeah. So I've seen a couple of fun facts that sort of entertain me this week to both home run fun facts which really have become a lot less entertaining in recent years because people have sort of abused them, there have been so many home runs hit that they're constantly records being set and so it's not much fun. Anymore we've talked about that before and a couple homerun fun facts that actually did make me say in both of them were courtesy of Jeremy Frank at MLB random stats on twitter and the first one was. laid August August, thirtieth he tweeted that the cubs were the first team since one, thousand, nine, hundred, and likely be history to have all three starting outfielders hit multiple home runs in the same game. Yeah which surprised me and I had to think about it a little bit and when you think about it, I, guess it's not that shocking. 'cause you know in order to have all three starting outfielders hit multiple home runs in the same game. That's six homers by one team in the same game that's fairly rare or had been until pretty recently, and then they have to be those three specific. And granted the corner outfielders are among the likeliest skies on a typical team to hit multiple home runs but maybe not the center fielder. So all those things have to line up, but still there's so many seasons in so many games in so many teams that I really would have thought that that would have happened. So at some point. Okay. So I just WanNa clarify here that your your the reason that you liked this fun fact was not because you think the cubs did something particularly special but rather. That thing that they did, which is what it, what it is. It had never been done before. It was the fact that we made it this far without that specific thing happening right because it's not more impressive than three other position players, multiple homers in a game but just you'd think with enough repetitions that just happened twelve point. Yeah. So let me ask you what if if the leftfielder second baseman and Catcher had done it and that combination had never happened would would you have been interested properly not know What you're getting you're getting soft in your old age and you're getting duped. This is you know that there is nothing particularly notable about the outfielders a unit it's just a collection of three of the eight positions. They have that happen to be sort of along the same line in the field but you know they often talk about them as a unit though, let know best outfield fastest outfield whatever. But we we do. Right. There are. So there are let's see. There are three hundred and thirty six combinations of three positions. If you exclude pitchers hand exclude the ages which you you could include the ages but I'm not so three hundred, thirty, six possible iterations of this trifecta and three players on a team have homered twice in a game only sixty times in major league history. So this is. What the cubs did is kind of rare 'cause that that fact only three, three, three players an Elena homering twice in a game only happens every other year kind of rare and the fact that it was left field center field right field. You've already granted me is not that interesting yeah. Well, as you say I'll fun facts lie and this sort of Hawaii it's not really a lie, but it's maybe a little deceptive or. Distorts things just because you're grouping together three positions that have some significance together and yeah. When you think about it a little more you almost WANNA retract your well but I already said well, so I can't take it back and this is the other one and this one lies I. think a little more even than that one and this was something that MLB tweeted or shared that the braves made history because for the first time. A team went with back-to-back three homer games by individual players. So the braves got back to back three home games by Adam divall and Marcel Zona or the other way round, and that was the first time that had ever happened. The Yankees apparently had done it on back to back days in one, thousand, nine, thirty when Babe Ruth and Lou Garrick did it but there is a double header so there is a game in. Between and this one sort of made me say, wow, because again, you know three home games are pretty rare but the fact that that has never happened in back to back games surprise me at first although as I have seen, some other people point out there has been a team that had multiple players hit three homers in the same game, which is in a sense more impressive rate but that happened in two thousand, one, Richie. And Jeremy Permits both hit three homers in the same game for the brewers. and. That fun fact is omitted from the other fun fact because it would sort of take away from the specialness I mean who cares about back to back days if? People in the same game sat game. Yeah. Yeah. I I. I. Mean I guess it's still sort of surprising that it hasn't happened in backed back days as well but it's twice as likely in back to back days. Yeah. That's true. So I guess it is even more surprising that that hasn't happened and yet somehow less special because it happened in the same game. So who cares about fact back to him so they both either omit something or distort something in order to make it. Work but both of them achieved their goal of making you say wouldn't have expected that I truly believe that what you are really identifying that you've reached a point in your career where you're you're more in need of content it is hard for you to find fresh content that you feel the burden of repetition in your life and you are sort of your falling for the pundits fallacy now where where you are just in search of of really anything that is novel you, I don't. Think. That two thousand, sixteen Ben would have said, wow. Either of those things maybe that maybe I'm listening to I, think you might be by the way I my query was complicated by I. Did it wrong? So in fact, twenty times, three players in the same lineup have homered in a game. Twenty not not sixty. Okay. Well you know as long as we're GONNA be talking about our own kind of personal weaknesses when it comes to new content creation, you know, I'm going to give you my favorite extra innings game of the week. Okay sure. This was two days ago the Astros and the Rangers were playing, and so the Rangers start with a runner on second Shinsu Chew Ground's out to second base and the runner goes to third and everything I'm going to say today about this game in the next is, is all based on again this expectation that I had coming into this that we were going to see a lot of repetition, a lot of groundouts to second base and a lot of sack flies. The extra innings we're GONNA seem formulaic and predictable, and so here we have ground out to second base runners at third. Now, here's how the rest of the game goes the runner on Third Scott Heinemann. He fakes steal of home causes the pitcher to balk then. So now the rangers have the lead Isaiah of FALESA grounds to short Carlos Correa. kind of perhaps frustrated doesn't feel that with much urgency throws in the. The ball is not scooped by the first baseman runner on first now, and then a popout Senate to outs runner on Joey Gallo up with one run lead Joey Gallo bunce, Joey Gallo bunce with a runner on first and two outs, and the Bundy is not that good. but Martine Maldonado calls off the pitcher runs out to feel that throws it down the line kind of scores from I on this wild throw and the Rangers get two run lead next inning. Forget something happened. But anyway. So that's it fake steal of Home Bach and then showy Gallo bunting with two outs and run I leading to shockingly a throw. While throw the allows runner to score. So is it like a shift beating because? Before I mean it's conceivable that he was thinking that. But even even with two outs, you wouldn't expect it with Joey. Gallo. He ended at right-back to the pitcher. It wasn't a particularly good could but I mean, clearly, it was a shift beating bunt I mean what else would he be bunting for so? In that sense yes it was probably an attempted to shift beating done. So the the lack of particularly and so then a few minutes later, the cubs and the pirates were in extra innings and the Ho- Harvey by as was the runner on second and there's ground ball second base and buy it goes to third and then Jason Heyward flies to right field and scores sacked fly in. So that's the sort of predictable thing that I was dreading but in between Willson contreras batted and Wilson Control as grounded to first base. The first Baseman muffed it. The ball went to the second baseman Harvey by as held it third until the ball got away and then he started to go home. The second basement picked the ball up through the ball home buyers had gone halfway down the line stops in a panic sprints back to third catcher Jay stallings gets the ball, but can't get a good grip on it and doesn't throw and so in between the predictable ground at the second and the predictable sac fly to right field there was a four three fielder's choice in which controls reached and Baya's didn't score and that just goes to the second thing that I've been saying which I just want to reinforce is that something about this situation causes teams to? Lose their minds everything is so sloppy. I'm probably imagining it or I'm probably just noticing it more because the stakes are so high. But when you start watching these players play with the runner on the go ahead, run on second base or third base you see how many mistakes they were I mean you know a Bach a box, and then a throw down the line on a bunt and then and then this weird four three, four fielder's choice where nobody is retired and it's all it's all wild. So extra innings continues to work. You truly are the best spokesman. For the automatic, Renner, if the extra runner had somehow hired someone to make the case for why this rule is great, they could that be doing a better enthusiastic. Than you are with this rule, everything happens everything happens now it's fantastic. It's opening up it is opening up sequences baseball that just don't. Exist. So, there's automatic runner rule email that we can segue into in just a second. I just wanted to say I've been reading all these remembrances of Tom Seaver who died on Wednesday at seventy five and of course of the remembrances have the incredible stats and how he was during his career in at the end of his career up to that point, he was probably the best pitcher of all time and they. All go through the three Cy Young Awards in the three hundred eleven wins and on and on and on. But all of the memorials include they all touch on certain highlights. You know most of them mentioned obviously the nineteen, sixty nine season and how important he was to the miracle mets and than the nineteen seventy eight no hitter with the reds and then winning his three hundredth game with the white sox and. Every moment. Every milestone in his career that happened happens with that team and at that time, just almost as a result of complete chance it was just like a fluke of timing that he went where he went when he went there because of when he arrived, which is true for any player at any time I suppose because you have free agency and you have the draft and everything and players don't really. Control where they end up and where they build their legacies but I don't know if for any inner circle Great Hall of Famer and of course, famous for having the highest percentage of support on Hall of fame ballot to that point I don't know if any player like that has had a clear illustration of the way in which players are just sort of at the mercy of whoever signs them trades for them. Whatever is happening at that point in their career because of course, he was drafted for the first time in nineteen, sixty five, which was the first year of the draft. So if he had come along a few years earlier than who knows what would have happened, someone would assign them he would've gone there. He might have been bonus baby or something he might not have spin met I mean the mets weren't. Around before nineteen sixty two but you know maybe he would have been nicknamed the franchise no matter what franchise he went to but he's so closely associated with that one and he ended up with the mets just really I mean totally as a result of chance there is this whole controversy where he he didn't sign when he was initially drafted and then he did sign but there is this big buckle reading from. Stephen Goldman's piece at BP here after his Sophomore Year of college, the dodgers selected him in the tenth round of the nineteen sixty five draft. That was when he declined seaver went back to school after his junior year the brave selected him in the now defunct January phase of the amateur draft. The braves took their time about sending a contract but seaver did sign before that though USC played a couple of. Exhibition, Games SEAFORD did not participate nevertheless a forever unnamed representative of a team called the Commissioner's Office and pointed out a rule that said, no college player could sign wants his school season had started and his school season technically hadn't started but nevertheless, Lee, macphail propping up empty suit commissioner. Spike. Eckert voided the contract and so he could have gone back to school for his senior year but then he was ruled ineligible. So so sorry. Okay. I don't know this story. So yeah, he was drafting the secondary phase which means basically the players who didn't sign in June were eligible for the secondary phase which happened in January and you're saying that because his team had played some exhibition games in the middle of the winter, it was deemed that their season had begun. Yes and so this the braves signing him was ruled void and and this ruling that he was. Ineligible for the draft was not made before the draft like it's poor braves because when when someone tells you Tom seaver is eligible for the draft you trust that they're telling you the truth I mean nothing could be worse than trapping player and then having someone go we didn't we didn't tell you he's not even eligible well, I think they drafted him before those exhibition games happened and then they took their time they didn't send him. Okay. Sign immediately, and then there were these exhibitions. Oh. That seems fair. Then because the US, the exhibition games didn't happen in in the middle of winter they had. The braids happened after that trap the point is of the rule might. Is partly to keep teams from waiting to see how you look in a game before they sign you maybe then that seems reasonable to me. I I actually Kinda think that. That's a good ruling. Well, I mean the exhibition games were exhibition games. So I mean yeah but they hadn't really started us. He didn't play in any way. So it's a it's a I it seems fine to rule either way. All right. I'm sorry I know I know the deals. So then he was ruled ineligible to go back to school for his senior year because. turned pro because. He had signed that contract and even though that contract was voided, he was now locked out of the NCAA as well and so the the compromise that they came up with was just a lottery a seaver only draft that any team other than the braves and the dodgers I guess who had drafted him in that first draft any team that was willing. To match the braves negotiated bonus package of fifty, one, thousand dollars Steve says, it was any team that matched that could be in this lottery and just be eligible to get safer by chance and only Cleveland, and the Phillies were interested initially and the mets scouting director at the time thought that seaver lacked stuff. So initially, they weren't interested, but then the. Other members of the front office persuaded the GM to participate. So the mets and these other participants were in this Derby perceiver they literally put names in a hat and pick them out and so that's why Tom seaver was a met. So the whole legacy of Tom seaver being met and being the best player in that franchise's history came about because of. A random drawing of his name from hat. Wow. Yeah, and then after that. So the reason why he didn't spend his whole career with the mets and transferred to Cincinnati in one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, seven, he was traded by the mets to the reds, which was a huge deal at the time that they had done that and one of the reasons or. The. Main reason was that he was kind of in a contract dispute with the team because he had signed this three year contract with them, and then all of a sudden free agency started and even though he had been the best pitcher of his era, he was suddenly leapfrogged by a few other guys in salary and you know he had argued that. He deserved more than he got before. He actually signed that contract, but the Mezzo wouldn't give him more and then suddenly free agency happened he sort of missed out on that initial boom and so he wanted to renegotiate his contract because of that the mets said, nope not interested and so they traded him and so he went the reds in nineteen seventy seven. Again sort of a fluke that free agency just happened to start at that particular time and that he was moved indirectly because of it, and so if you go on Youtube and watch his low no hitter in nineteen, seventy, eight with the reds which I was just watching some of myself it comes not with the team he is most associated with. That game was like just a little over two hours long by the way I was just watching it and they're no graphics on the screen which I find very distracting. Now, I'm so used to just seeing the count and the outs and the score and the the base out situation and all of it on the screen, and there's just nothing which I guess. What you see when you actually go to a game, but now to me, it's distracting not to see all that stuff but I will link to that go check it out, and then his one of his signature moments has his three hundred. Th Win comes with the White Sox and he was chosen by the white sox from the mets. He had gone back to the mets and nineteen eighty two in a trade, and then the white sox selected him as a free agent compensation pick. So there was this free agent pool at the time and He was left unprotected in that pool, which made sense because he was thirty nine year old pitcher and the mets didn't think that the white sox would select a thirty nine year old pitcher in this process and so they protected a bunch of young players in their pool and instead they took Tom Seaver, which seems like it should be a violation of some sort of unwritten rule of transactions f you should be able to to take the guy named the franchise in a draft this if he's thirty nine years did name for different franchise though. Wells, I mean, he he was with the mets at the time with the mets. So yeah, I feel like you should just leave him with that franchise. So anyway, that pick was so embarrassing for baseball that they did away with that pool plan I think not long after that. So all these moments like whether it's the the six nine world series or the no hitter or the three hundredth win they all came about because of the structures that existed in baseball at the time that hadn't existed for long before seaver in some cases didn't. Exist for long after seaver and he was just kind of buffeted by these rules and transactions that He really had no control over and you know again, probably just would have been at inner circle. Great. No matter where he was playing or when he was playing. But the way that we think of his career was so shocked by these circumstances that he really had nothing to do with, which is Kinda the case for most players. I. Suppose. But I don't know that anyone is sort of a a better example of that than Tom seaver. and. He didn't pitch. You said, he didn't pitch in the exhibition games his team played, but he didn't play in this right? Okay I'm back to now. Yeah. Yeah. So again, what was he supposed to like he was on this team that scheduled some exhibition games I guess he could've quit the team or something, but I mean what a team really like if you really had a sinister coach, what the coach would do is, yeah schedule an exhibition game the after the draft and then right your your players. If you don't WanNA, lose your players to the majors. Then you just have an exhibition game happen immediately. No time for him to sign. Anyway. That's one of the things that struck me about Tom Seaver is I was reading these things and I will link to some of them because I am too young to have seen Tom seaver pitch his. Last season was the season just before I was born and he was really good even then in his forties in fact, he was so good. Then he was still like a a league average pitcher at that. That he was traded in that season at that deadline, he was still good enough in his final season for team to want to acquire him and it was the white sox who had gotten him in that pool that we were just talking about they traded him June twenty ninth nineteen, eighty six to the Red Sox for Steve Lyons and something that I hadn't realized that Joe Sheehan mentioned in his piece is that you? Could have a scenario where seaver was facing the mets in the nineteen, eighty six playoffs and that would have been amazing and Joe rates unfortunately a knee injury prevented him from pitching in the playoffs leaving us with the tantalizing what if of Tom seaver coming out of the visitors bullpen at Shea Stadium in game six or game seven win a couple of shutout innings could have also changed baseball history so that would have been something. Yeah. Cool. By the way the Rangers were up to case now you got to the bottom of the tent and now I remember what happened. So can start with a runner on second and Michael Brantley singles to a little flair to Centerfield and Jose. altuve has to to hold to wait to see if it's GonNa land, and so he gets a late break and you know his his run doesn't matter they're down by two and so normally he. Would play it safe and stay at third. But for some reason, he decides to go home even though again, his run doesn't matter and the center fielder fields it throws home seems like he's got his shot at altoona and again normally since two as run doesn't matter, you wouldn't even pay attention to him because you'd want to keep the runner on first but it seemed like he actually had a real shot at Altoona and then the. First Baseman Yu Audio Rivera who had just entered the game and is not a regular first baseman he sort of like in my recollection he like flies across the Infield to cut the ball off and it looks sorta awkward and wrong and that maybe cost the rangers a chance of getting an out at home on to say in this weird scenario where there would never normally you would never have a play there because the run doesn't. Count and there was this long discussion about whether he did the right thing whether they had a chance to get to look like he did. But on the other hand, You keep Michael Brantley at first and then on the next pitch, Yuli Gurriel grounds into a double play and so the decision to cut the ball off turned out to be the correct one even if it was maybe done seemingly done incorrectly by an inexperienced first baseman perhaps. All right. Well, I'm glad you went back to that because now I can transition neatly to this email Mrs from Adam who sometimes helps us with stat plastic and he says I was listening to Ben and Sam's recent discussion and starting run second in every inning. Of maybe the biggest reason it wouldn't work. So we listed like seventeen recent why? Didn't seem like a good idea to have the extra innings role in every inning and we missed this one. Which I think is a good one having a runner on second would dramatically increase the run-scoring environment leading to fewer close games. So the reason why we had this automatic runner rule to end games more quickly by having these imbalanced run totals that would also have an effect in. Earlier innings to and you just get fewer close game. So Adam says, I, did some simulations using extols probabilities of scoring x runs given the bay state from historical data with the normal format and games with a runner on second to start every inning in the normal game. Thirty percent of games are within one run after nine innings if you had the runner on second in every inning. That would be only twenty two percent. If you had the normal rules forty-seven percent or within two runs with the extra runner ruled that would be thirty six, percent normal sixty, two percent within three runs not normal forty, nine percent within three runs normal seventy, three percent within four runs normal sixty percent within four runs. So you just get a lot less suspense and a lot fewer close. Games at the end and Adam says I do have a suggestion on one possible rule change that would add strategy without drastically altering the run-scoring environment what if each team could choose a single inning of the first nine where they could start with a runner on second teams would have to choose when to use the runner. If they used I, they could engineer it. So the best hitters. were up with a good base runner and get out to an early lead or they could save it for a leverage inning. Late in the game, what do you think of this rule in? How would you use it? All right. So let's put the rule aside for a second. I think that I don't think that I missed Adam address, but the Games wouldn't be as close on the. Scoreboard but a three run lead would be a lot less if you start every inning with a runner on right like as a team that's trying to come back if you are down three in a much higher scoring environment than you're more likely to come back than if you're down three and a lower scoring environment and so I think that he's correct to that if you increase the Amount of scoring, and then you are naturally like for the same reason, a that the teams are less likely to be even after one extra inning that same forces are more likely to cause a greater spread of runs over the course of nine innings, and so you're more likely to have less close games but also part of that is real part of that is just an illusion it. Looks like it's not as close because you're down by six but down by six doesn't mean what it used to mean or what means under the current rules and that's I think that that is both correct. But that comes up anytime you talk about changing the the run-scoring environment anything that Major League baseball could ever do or or that happens naturally to affect the run-scoring environment like for instance. The, the juice ball makes it less likely that you'll have a close game in the ninth inning, but it also makes it more likely that if you're down in the ninth inning that you'll be able to come back and there's that there's that balance you want to find that balance because if you make it too hard to score, then you're definitely going to have a close game but well usually but. You're also GONNA. Make Games that are three to nothing in the fourth inning seem out of out of reach I think Adam is probably right though I think that there would be more games where it would feel like a comeback was less likely but I don't think it's like a huge thing now as the rule where you get to pick one inning where you can do that, what do you think? Well I think it would add some strategy and that teams might play it in different ways, which is interesting. More strategy is good but again, I think I would be against it just because. I don't know it would seem sort of arbitrary or just to have you know all of a sudden here's the automatic runner rule. It's only one inning I guess, just my reservations about it in general would apply to it in this case too, and it would add sort of an element of randomness surge or something to the game that again might add some strategy and may make it more entertaining, which is what we've been talking about this whole time with this role. But to me I think it's sort of upsets competitive integrity in some way. Yeah I don't necessarily see a solution that it is solving or a purpose for it's being there. If if they played baseball this way for one hundred years than we would definitely have internalized it and be happy with it, and if you recommend taking it away, people would say, how can you take it away? It's great part of the game but a change, it is not one that I see a great need for and it feels a little weird. Okay this is a question from one, Sam? Miller who submitted any mail for the show and said the other day a team was up five to one and the broadcaster said they were looking for a big insurance run and then in a different game at was up to one and the broadcaster said they were looking for a big insurance run does any run by any team with a lead count as an insurance run or does the lead have to be within a certain range? What about to qualify as a big insurance run? Could. Question Yeah. I think technically any run by any team with the lead counters and insurance, right? Okay. So I thought that we might say that but. Really. Like the giants, the other day were up twenty to to yeah and then they scored three more runs you would consider those insurance runs. Because, what the point of insurance is that you are at risk well, okay. If something bad happens to you, you're not going to be able to handle the cost of that bad thing happening. So someone's going to take a little bit of your money to give you protection now. If at a certain point, the thing that they're insuring you against is so unlikely. So to so as to be unrealistic, then it's not really insurance anymore it's conway like if I give you if I give you for Instance Dragon, insurance and I and I say if a Dragon Burns down your house tonight then I will I will rebuild your house and all you have to do is make you know monthly payments of eight dollars to me. You wouldn't consider that dragon insurance you consider it my dragon scam. Yeah. So I think that in a K. I think at a certain point you're ensuring what are you ensuring against your insuring against an eighteen run comeback in the ninth and also if you give up eighteen runs in the ninth, your probably giving up nineteen like whereas like it if you just map out the scenarios of what could happen in the bottom of the ninth inning, there's a lot of scenarios where you give one run but not too, and there's a lot of scenarios maybe where you give up two runs but not three and fewer the more. The higher up you go the less likely it is that you're going to give up you know three on the dot four on the dot five on the dot six hundred it's extremely unlikely that you're gonNa up eighteen on the dot. You might like there's a about a one in ten billion chance that you give up eighteen on the dot but very, very, very slim like the odds are if you've given up eighteen, then you know well, you're probably not giving up eighteen and if you do, there's a pretty good chance you're giving up nineteen anyway. Because you are in freefall whereas, I think that's quite the case with a one run lead where the market is quite slim. I don't think anyone's GonNa say in twenty two to game unless they're joking. So that's kind of a an academic discussion which I guess is the kind of discussion we often half year but I think it's not technically incorrect like if someone says that's an insurance run I I wouldn't save. No, it's not. It does I mean you know maybe to an infinitesimal degree it does make you more likely to win or less likely to give up a lead that you have. So okay but obviously, there's a a threshold. The benefit is so low because you're so close to being assured of winning already that you just wouldn't say insurance run unless it was ironically, and so I guess the question is, where is that threshold and? Stop saying big insurance run and. I think five one might even be see the thing about five one I guess is that you are still a grand slam away from Taika right so I guess in that sense that you could conceivably lose the lead with one swing maybe you could still make the case that it's still. Within the realm of reasonable to say insurance run at that point. But that's probably even bigger margin than I would say it I think I would be most comfortable saying it within Gosh I don't know if I would say with more than a two run lead like after that, it's just I don't know it's just tacking on it's just it's lead it's just a bigger lead I don't know that I would use the term insurance run unless. Close Yeah Yeah it almost has to be big for me. So you're saying that not only would you not use big insurance run for five one, but you probably wouldn't say insurance on you'd say just adding on. Yeah. Yeah unless lengthening early, I just use some other words so. I think it would be like. A one or two run margin for me to say it, and I might not even say big because for me it's almost implied that when you're saying it, it's big. Say that a big insurance run has to be one or two probably but I would feel better if it were one because one, you really you guarantee that the tying run is up the entire next inning to you. You don't guarantee that. So you can make a mistake and it doesn't matter how big a mistake it is. You make a mistake next inning and still have the lead if you're up by two that's not true if you're up by one to me, that's a significant difference insurance in a lot of cases in real life is for one mistake like. Your house doesn't burn down twice. It. Burns down. Once. You get in a car crash like like once that's what the insurance is for your thinking. I'm not going to get in a ton of car crashes but I might have one bad day and make one bad car crash. So the insurance run protects you against the one mistake and so I think I I think I would try to hold it to just that one for big insurance. I. Would try to hold it just that one run lead. But if you have say the top of the order coming up the next inning, maybe I would I would stretch to two run lead if you're really nervous if in Colorado that sort of thing. Now, that's for big insurance I think that insurance. Run can go if it takes it out of a safe situation if you don't have to use your closer or if you're closer is gonNA come in with a non save situation to me that it is a kind of an arbitrary and misleading line, and yet it's one that we all recognize where the difference between a Foreign Lena three run lead is enough that we have different statistical language for it. So I would say that if you have a three run lead and you make it a foreign leader that would qualify as an insurance run, but not a big insurance run. You can now put your reliever. You're reliever back on on on his on his bottom and bringing a different reliever. Okay. Do you have a stat blast. It's dumb. Yes. Okay. Well, here's the step last song cover of the week by Michael Temple. It's an instrumental version which has been one of your favorites so far. Who? Des. Just. Curious Ben Tom seaver retired with one hundred and six war with three hundred eleven wins. If you knew someone was going back in time machine to change the officiant schedule to make sure that he would be a brave. And so he's going to be a brave. Now he's not going to be met everything else in the world up to that point is the same. What would you say is his median war expectation And you know it's Tom Seaver you still know that it's like you know that it's all the same ligaments and brain cells. Yeah. But he's now playing in a different universe, a different scenario, different team, different player development but also just different rolls of the dice yeah Gosh I I. Guess I would say that when you have a that great you have probably ended up with an upper percentile outcome for what your career could have been. You know maybe he would have been even better somewhere else but odds are that if you changed anything, he probably would have been worse if anything so I guess I would say that maybe it would be like Eighty or something like I still think he'd be great obviously. But who knows you know he's pitching in a a different game he's hit by a comebacker or you know he he gets overworked and he hurts his armor. Who knows you know he's in a different place at a different time. He suffers some off the field accidents or something. These are all like involving injuries, but it doesn't have to be an injury. It could just be a developmental thing. Yeah. I would go as low as maybe thirty five. well, yeah I don't think I'd go that low because it's not like he was a project is pretty great from the Gecko like cues college pitcher than he had one quite good season in triple a in nineteen, sixty six, and then he was rookie of the year with the mets in nineteen, sixty seven. So I sorta suspect that if he were that Greek right away, probably would have been great right away wherever he went but I don't know if this is the case but I think the fact that he ended up with the mets maybe made him more special in the sense that he transcended his stats in a way because. He was so significant to an expansion franchise that had been pretty bad up until that point, he made them respectable. He was the you know the face of that franchise he won that nineteen sixty, nine world series. He meant so much to many mets fans in Yorkers at the time. So if you transplanted to another team or teams and he is just as good as he was with the mets, probably things don't shake out in quite that way and maybe you'd remember him as an all time. Great. But without some of the emotional resonance that he has for for fence of the mets. All right. So here's my bad stat blast has had. Tom seaver I heard a baseball anecdote the other day about a manly who was one of the co-owners with his wife EPA of the Newark. Eagles in the Negro National Leagues and the story goes that he was watching one of his hitters. Foul off a bunch of pitches fighting to stay alive and it back and. He sees everyone of these foul balls, go into the sands and he knows that like he's paying for those foul balls and so he sends a message down to the manager that that batter needs either strike out or put the ball in play that he's got a quick fouling the ball off or he's going to start getting fined. For every foul ball, I don't know if that story happened but I would say that other than the modern American. And National Leagues of the last twenty, five years every other baseball team and league throughout history has had some concern about the expense of baseball's the expense that frequent use of baseball's adds up to and so like our friend. Theo at the stompers they had a a they. They would. He was obsessed with how many baseballs they were using, and so there was a thing where a foul ball went out of play A. Fan could bring it back and exchange it for like a like a box of milk duds or something the because a box of milk duds costs the Oh like two bucks, but the baseball cost him four fifty. So he was always trying to get those balls in play and various. I think a lot of actually a Lotta Minor Leagues Actually Mine Teams do that today as well our pal. Dan Evans. One time told me that I should the article he wanted me to write was figuring out when first baseman started tossing the ball into. The. Stands on their way back from the last out of the inning because he remembered earlier in his career that you never did that you would a first baseman would never be giving away a baseball team needed those baseballs. They didn't want WanNa go to that extent and the other day I think it was Tony Gwynn I saw in an old article was saying that coming out of the strike that had changed I think that that's what you can trace that back to. So I think post strike when teams really saw getting a lot. Of Baseball's into the stands as being away of doing fan outreach I think before that, even the major leagues was a little bit protective of their baseball supply, and so anyway, that is just all to say that whenever a batter fells of all off, it costs team a little money and a about that a lot of balls off cost his team more money. So I want to see how big the Rangers how much an expensive player costs his team in foul balls and who is the most expensive hitter in baseball on foul balls alone. So I took last year's hitters I took their number of foul balls, hit and their number of home runs hit to see who who put the most balls out of play, and then also to see who had the highest rate of balls put out of play, and so the answer is first of all that Freddy Freeman cost his team, the most money in baseball's Freddy Freeman. Input at least six, hundred, fifty, one balls play between his foul balls in his home runs. No. I am not counting various other balls, put out play that batter might be responsible for. So a batter that has long at bats, for instance, is probably more likely to just by making the pitcher throw more pitches they're also GonNa may be more pitches in the dirt pitch in. The dirt has to go out to play a batter who hits more ground balls is more likely. I think to put balls out of play because if a ball hits the infield than it also goes out of play I, think a batter who I if I'm not mistaken a batter who makes more third outs as a proportion of his outs would put more balls out of. Play because usually the ball disappears after the end of an inning. So those are all things that a hitter might also be responsible for but I don't think that the team executives would blame the hitters for those quite much as they would for the balls that are directly out of place. So Freddy Freeman six, hundred and fifty balls put out of play last year that's six hundred. Thirteen fouls thirty eight homers sorry six, hundred, fifty, one total. So he is the foul balling is home run. Hitter in baseball hand by my math or I should say by Theo's math that would cost the team two, thousand, nine, hundred, and thirty dollars. Probably just release them that point. It's. It's an expense. Okay. It's a real expense if you were to look at rate because not everybody has many bats Freddy Freeman than the highest ball out of play hitter in baseball. Was Jeff McNeil Twenty, eight percent of the pitches that Jeff McNeil saw ended up being replaced because they were either fouled off or hit for home runs just a lot like almost feel like I should redo that seems like a ton twenty, eight percent how much they say I said twenty eight percent, right? Yeah Twenty eight percent. So average Jeff McNeill had back produces a souvenir which is considerable. Compare that to the low end of the list. The bottom of the list is Derek Fisher who only put eleven percent of balls out of play eleven percent compared to twenty eight percent. First of all, that's a lot right like over the course of a Game Jeff McNeil puts three more balls out of play than Derek. Fisher over the course of four plate appearances. That's three more balls that Jeff Fisher are that Jeff. I've gotten my name's. Jeff? McNeil. Steph McNeil cost three more baseball than Derek Fisher. Costs. There's nothing else in baseball I don't think where the spread from the top of the leaderboard to the bottom of leaderboard is that extreme? That's three baseball's that he's. Four Times Baseball's. It can't be my math has to be rolling. They're going to be four times the baseball's. Times the rate is it. It's only three times the rate. Oh, it's not four times. Baseball's it's it's three times the baseball but four and a half baseball's compared to one and a half baseball's that Jeff macneil uses. So over the course of the season that means that Jeff McNeil costs his team two, thousand, four, hundred and thirty dollars more than Derek Fisher would cost if they played every day two, thousand and four, hundred, thirty dollars, it doesn't seem like that much but to theo. A lot for. Theo yeah. It's probably a lot for the Wilpon to. Their dead, right. So anyway, so I guess to answer that question, there's a pretty big difference between the the the worst offenders in the rest but the cost actually is is not that much unless you're working on a a fairly small profit margin which most baseball teams throughout history have been but most current, American and National League teams are not all right. Well, Jeff McNeil gets traded. Now you'll know it's because the will come. To this, and they realize how much he was costing them in foul balls. Aright. A quick one this is from Dj. Sort of a step plastic question Cameron Maven was traded by the Tigers to the cubs this week for Zach Short, this would be a trade that wouldn't normally receive much notice for me in this case was alerted to the fact that this is the third time that may have been has been traded away from the Tigers previously had been reacquired by the Tigers in November two, thousand fifteen and traded way to the angels a year. Later, most notably as a prospect, he was a major piece of the twenty seven trade that brought Cabrera to Detroit and know that many players get treated numerous times over the course of their career especially someone with me bins. Profile a guy with the talent to be helpful but never quite good enough to become a piece for a team to build around still having one team, acquire a player three different times, draft trade free agency, and trade them away. Each time seems quite unusual. Is this the case has there a player traded away by the same team more often than may been if not are there other notable examples of player being traded multiple times by one club does this happen more often than I expect and it does not happen often I got a list here from dinner shift baseball reference. So there have been a handful of other players who have been traded three times so it is maybe and pinkie. Bucker. SAAG. Rich Hinton Ed Levy Dick Scofield and Cardinal. However, there have been four players if you include purchases, which is basically just a trade but for money instead of another player than there are two. Who have been traded or sent away for cash by one team four times one of them is Bobo newsom who played for decades and decades like from the twenty s to the fifties. So he had a lot of time for this to happen and the Saint Louis Browns kept requiring him and getting rid of him again and again but do Carmel who I mentioned he. was traded three times by the cardinals, but he was dealt four times because he was also sent away via purchase one time and I think he takes the cake here because do Carmel only played four years in the major leagues, he only got eighty one plate appearances in the majors for the cardinals who kept requiring him and traded him away and I think that's because. He had the misfortune of being left handed outfielder first baseman at the same time as Stan musial as Dan Hurst, point it out. So you know as we were talking about circumstances of a team in a time, can really dictate a player's career and that was probably the case for Carmel. So Do caramels transactions log on baseball reference goes before the nineteen fifty, five season. He was signed by the cardinals as an amateur free agent nineteen sixty he was traded by the cardinals to the dodgers a couple months later, September nineteen sixty purchased by the cardinals from the dodgers. Then may of the next year nineteen, sixty, one traded by the cardinals to the dodgers. Again, he was like the the Oliver Drake of his day before the nineteen, sixty, two season. Sent him back to the cardinals in an unknown transaction. And then in March of that year nine, hundred, sixty, two, he was purchased by Cleveland from the cardinals before the sixty three season he was sent by Cleveland to the cardinals in again and unknown transaction, and then July of nineteen sixty three, the cardinals having gotten him back after that traded him to the mets for Jackie, Davis and cash, and then finally in nineteen. Sixty. Four he was drafted by the Yankees from the mets in the rule five draft and that was the end of his career. He played briefly for the Yankees in nineteen sixty five and he was never in the big leagues again. So cardinals really had a thing for to Carmel, but not enough to keep him very long at all what do you think is going through their? Heads when they're making when he's making his decision to join the cardinals for the fourth time and when they're making decision to acquire him for the fourth time because you're right that it doesn't make much sense for him to be on the cardinals. So they keep trading him but it takes more effort to reacquire him than it does to trade him in. You would think that. You would be doing some of that calculus when you're doing it and then you would think by the fourth time he'd be like four times shame on me as well. So I wonder if it like he just lived there in Saint Louis and and it was this was his home base and when he needed to Kinda reset, he would just WanNa go back to Saint. Louis. Because he he's a New Yorker and after his career, he went back to New York according to the Bullpen became a salesman for a liquor distributor and is still with us and still a New Yorker I believe so. I don't know maybe we should talk to Carmel quite a career. I, think the cardinals were interested in him though because he was sort of a minor league, slugger nineteen, fifty seven, he led the Pioneer League with twenty nine homers and in a thousand plus O. P. S. Nineteen, fifty nine in the minors for the cardinals he hit twenty three homers with nine hundred plus O. P. S. nineteen sixty, four AAA with the mets thirty, five homers with nine seventy seven Oh pious say he was kind of a quadruple A. Guy or maybe just sort of blocked and really get enough playing time to show whether he could translate it to the majors not. Yeah I guess I was so heated I mean I I feel like it's sort of silly because of course, he wasn't making the decision to go by this was nineteen, sixty, five, there was it's not like signing as free agent he was being traded back there. So it doesn't matter whether he had been fooled four times he did not have the. Right employer rights that players would come to have later. So forget that I said that but still interesting that the cardinals would keep going back to that particular Carmel well. Maybe, they were they getting did every time they traded him they maybe they were just I I've told this story before but one of my friends I might have told this story I don't remember if I told the story totally honestly the first time but one of my friends had a John. Nineteen ninety leaf that had a crease right down the middle of it, and he would trade his whole thing as a kid like basically his job, his income as a child was to trade that John All root for something good and then like a great. Trade by the way you know, I'm glad that you didn't mind the crease and then the person would see the crease because you couldn't see the crease. It was really hard to see the crease unless it was at the perfect angle and then the person would get all mad and he'd go. Well, I mean I'll trade you back something else for it. So then he would trade less. So he just kept on basically trading the donal rudely for value and then trading for it for the discount and doing that over and over and over and over again. So I wonder if something like that was, let's see. So Joe Cop John Glenn Got John Clinton. Pretty good. And Check Jack With an e Davis. These are particularly story baseball players that I know of. Let's say John John Glenn Played Thirty two games for the cardinals after they acquired him. Joe Cop K. O. P. P. E. HE played no games for the cardinals after they acquired him Shack Davis played no games for the cardinals after acquired him. So they were trading them for they traded him they traded and three times. Four if you count the unknown transaction, whichever it was, they traded him three times for a grand total of thirty one plate appearances from the other players that they hired. And he barely got more than that himself for them so. Yeah, that is a a singular career I. Think I found a blog post about him here that mentions that when he briefly played with the mets in nineteen, sixty, three Duke Snider was on that team. So it was a double Duke Lineup and also you mentioned in Balfour. So quoting here, he went to spring training with the bombers in nineteen, sixty five amid much fanfare in. Paul Fort Jim Belton Sardonically notes that he was supposed to be the next Joe Damasio cording about and he struggled in camp and Whitey Ford consoled him by suggesting that he just couldn't hit in south Florida. When he continued to play poorly in Tampa weighty amended his remarks you're just not Florida. Hitter of course Duke then faltered in a few more games further north prompting the Great Yankees Pitcher to say it looks like you just can't hit south of the Mason Dixon Line. But he didn't end up hitting New York either. All right. Can I give you a a quiz too end on here I've prepared a little quiz for you. Okay. If you'll play along this is prompted by a question from Nathaniel and he says so phillips vowed as just through twelve changeups in a row. Dennis. ECKERSLEY. Unheard of and even said, he'd never thrown anyone pitch twelve times in a row. Is this a record? If not what is the record for most of the same pitch in a row and is it smart fouled as got the better on a high fastball but was he lucky? So I have here courtesy of Lucas layers of baseball prospectus the most times consecutively that every pitch type has been thrown. Yea. In the pitch tracking, arison. So since two, thousand, eight. So I've got eight pitch types here. Oh, goodness changeup splitter curveball slider sinker cutter for seamer knuckle later. If, you're if you're willing I'd I'd be interested in you taking a stab at putting them in order The numbers. So I'm just guessing the numbers I'm not guessing who did it no day I don't expect you to guess that but yet. So we got four seem to seem splint change curve slider knuckleball. And what's the cutter? Did you get those cutter Okay Okay Yeah Okay so I'm putting them in order the loss of longest streak and let me give You a little. We're going to do a little production here. We're GONNA do some editing. I'M GONNA I'M GONNA disappear for a minute. Okay. Okay. Okay I'm ready. Okay and I will a few details here because they affected my guesses here these are limited to. Single appearances. So I think the I would have had cut her higher if I could have on multiple appearances in a row because I would have guessed that I could have gotten like a run of multiple Kenley Jansen or Mariano Rivera appearances. Then, if it's one outing and then also this is since two, thousand, eight I think if it were. If we could go back to say the eighties I would have put splitter higher than I do. But just because it's only in the past thirteen years, I, don't think that there are enough split-finger pitchers that I am that confident then there would be a ton. So I'm kind of on the fence about anyway. All right. So here I know this could've looked up across multiple outings but I I think it's more interesting this way right and because I think part of the entry that you're throwing the same pitch over and over again to the same on the same day, which you know that's daring to do that. Whereas if you're coming back on a different day, maybe it's different team entirely they haven't seen those previous pitches anyway. All right. So how am I? How are we doing this? Just I. Guess. Guess the the first longest streak that you think in Okay and how long you would guess it is all right. My first longest streak I have knuckleball at eighty nine pitches. Okay. You are corrected is indeed knuckleball, but it is one hundred, four pitches. So come on did you that's pretty good? No, it's. All right Dicky. Was the record holder on April eighteenth two, thousand, fifteen he threw a hundred four knuckleball said I'm just trying to see any through a hundred four pitches that day so he nothing but knuckleball. Okay. All right I get points. Okay. Now gets harder next I'M GONNA say to seamer at forty four. I don't know how to. Give away just tell me tell me what number two seamer is. Tell me what rank to seamer is okay and then how many? To seamer sinker is actually the fourth most common only and it's thirty nine. Okay. That was Derek Lowe in two thousand ten. Okay. So I was pretty close on the on the number but not on the rank okay. Yeah. Well, all right. My number three was four seamer which I had forty one of okay for seamer is next after knuckleball actually fifty six Daniel Cabrera in two, thousand, eight Daniel Cabrera just through a lot of fast balls didn't really work out that well for him I don't know if he didn't have good breaking baller or they just didn't tell them you should throw more breaking balls but he had a lot of outings. where he just through very very heavily fastballs. Okay. Next I have cut her but my number's going to be low I know that because I know it's ahead of two seamers. I have cutters twenty nine. Yeah. Okay. It is cutter. It is forty six by Lenny Dinardo in two thousand nine. Wow. Really have you noticed that a lot of these are in two thousand and two thousand nine do you think that it's early pitch affects the pitch classifications aren't as could be these are I should've said, these are based on the Pitch Info classifications. Harry Potter so they should be better than just the the standard automatic MLB once. It is possible. Of course that a a pitch could have been mis classified at at some point and I guess maybe it would. have been more common at that time maybe just when there was less of an emphasis on mixing pitches and throwing certain pitch types more often than they used to be thrown. All right. Now, we get to the the the moving stuff on number five curve ball twenty four. You nailed the number. EF, which I don't know if you do that. Yeah it's the. Nicole Nicolas's out of October twenty seventeen. But that is not the next pitch, right? Yeah. My goodness. Okay. So I had number six I had slider but I had I had it down to fifteen slider is twenty nine Brad Lidge Brad Lidge is pet nick. Check in two thousand. Twelve He really through a lot of. I would like to that me too, and then here we this is where I I am going to go. I'M GONNA go seven splitter with thirteen. It is splitter with Seventeen Edward Mujica two, thousand thirteen, and then I'm GonNa Change Up at twelve. Change up thirteen Houston Street in two thousand fifteen. So ECKERSLEY was right to be taken aback by this and he saw twelve changeups in a row that is one short of the highest number that we have on record here and Lucas and I guest before he ran the numbers and obviously you guessed to that change would be the shortest long streak which makes sense because a change. Like, you think you could get away with it for a while with a really fast hard pitch because you've got control of it and it's just hard to catch up to or the knuckleball obviously because it's random and unpredictable. But with the others like you know sliders and curves there had to hit the they bend a lot too. So you could in theory, get away with throwing more of them in a row whereas with changeups and splitters, which you're sort of similar like changeups on their own are not great change. The whole point of the change is that your changing speeds from the fastball, but it looks like something else and then it's Not, and it's not as unhittable on its own merits as a breaking ball would be. So you would figure that yeah. It'd be pretty hard to throw changeups thirteen times in a row because at that point, it's not even a change up really that's that's just the the baseline and everything else is that change up from that. So to do that anytime soon, row that's that's risky but Houston Street had a good one. All right. Now, I have a quick quiz for you in two thousand eleven one of the maybe like the second or third article I ever wrote for you was about how Bartolo Cologne was doing these long stretches of nothing. And he he has the record for like Maastricht stir does yeah. But also he was throwing light long stretches of just fastballs and then I wrote about how I was really looking forward to seeing all fast ball game and then that day that very day at Ran Justin masterson actually had a day that he only through one non fastball in an entire start just crushed all the other games that fastball heavy games that we looked at anyway. Do you remember the headline that you gave that are. You don't know unsurprised I. Okay. What was it footloose and fastball free? Pretty. Good I guess. Okay so we will. Okay that will do it for today. Thanks as always for listening. You can sport effectively wild unpatriotic by going to patriot dot com slash effectively wild. The following five listeners have already signed up and pledge some small of the amount and upkeep the podcast going it get themselves access to some perks enter stockman and wine Aqui KANTER. Myers is Cannella and Doug Graham. Thanks to while of you, you can join our facebook group at facebook dot com slash group sash effectively actively wild. You can rate review and subscribe to effectively wild on. spotify other podcasts platforms, please replenish our mailbag, keep your questions and comments for me and salmon neg coming the email at podcast dangerous dot com or the paycheck misting system. If you are a supporter thanks and Higgins for his editing assistance and we will be back with one more episode before the long weekend talk to you soon. then. You would you Stated Legacy. Toy? Birthdays functions. Thank you.
The Wrap Up Show Padres Sweep Giants
"Mobile APPS IT support cyber, and network security. These are in demand and rewarding career paths. You could pursue with the right education trust a university with over fifty years of proven graduates success EC Pi University. Our hands on approach keeps you engaged helping make what you thought was complex fun and exciting. When you think technology think e CPI university and you could earn your bachelor's in two point five years or less go to E. CPI dot. Edu to get started. This is the wrap up. Show each time to break down everything that happened out on the diamond sixty games sprint continues all the analysis all the highlights and all the reaction here from Jay Stigler players and you. Contact here. Now we go. Live to the extra thirteen sixty studios with John. Schaefer and Jim Russell. What an afternoon on. Sunday. For the padres they sweep a doubleheader from the giants and extend their winning streak to seven consecutive games. The padres will finish twenty twenty over five hundred for the first time. Since twenty ten s San, Diego moved to thirty one and seventeen with a couple of very impressive wins on Sunday afternoon six nothing in game one by my cleven jer three, one in game two behind some clutch hitting three relievers. Behind Garrett Richards and the padres absolutely rolling into their huge series this upcoming week against the La Dodgers. This is the wrap up show with John for and Jim. Russell. If you're not following us on social media, please do that at twitter at John Shaffer at Jim Russell. St. Over the next hour, we're gonNA hear from the manager Jay's Tingler we'll hear from my clovinger as well LS scores and we'll get you set for the massive. At PETCO Park against La the begins on Monday and six ten. But what a weekend Jim, we didn't know if the momentum would be halted as the padres didn't play Friday and Saturday, because of a false positive in the giants organization but the Padres pick up right where they were and they've won seven consecutive games. Yeah. A couple days off may have actually helped team to be honest with you and they got to sweep today. Kinda like. Easy I to me it did it to me. It felt like there's no doubt in my mind that not only the Padres, the better team, but they're going to win these games. They're gonNA to find a way to win in the second game there, and then the first game I tweet this out after the third inning, I'll like this feels like clovinger I'm just GonNa go seven complete this game type outing for him and which he did he went seven. Felt Kinda effortless almost when you look at the box score complete game seven strikeouts only one walk only giving up two hits like that's the Mike Levin show that this team traded for and who they hope they get in the postseason is a guy that's going to give you seven innings going to not allow any runs couple couple hits given up. strikeout seven plus only walk one it was it was his best as a padre so far and couldn't have come at a better time. And then game to like it was you know giant scored I there but to me I was like, all right. You know I felt that they were gonNA come back and win that game somehow, and it wasn't pretty will myers at a home run. But other than that the other ones they scored wasn't pretty how they did it but still they got the job done and their bullpen. John, this is a strength of the team. Now it's incredible because it's been nine days. So the first twenty, three games of the year, the padres bullpen was six point four, eight, the last twenty, three games coming into today two, point, seven five and the bullpen today two and two third innings of one hit no run baseball Tim Hills now three. Now he was the winning pitcher in game two drew pomeranz not allowed to run JIM this year and fifteen scoreless innings and Trevor Rosenthal was able to work around two out error committed by Fernando Totti's junior. To Work School. seventh-inning for his tenth save and third with the chargers. If there's one thing we saw over the course of these two games and maybe over the seven game winning streak is that Fernando Totti's junior is a human. You know he wasn't GonNa hit three fifty all year. He wasn't GonNa hit thirty five home runs and sixty games you know he For the first time, maybe as a professional at the big league level actually slumping, he's one for fifteen. Now, in his last five games, the Patriots won all of those games. So that's the good news. In this double header he was over six also committed an error with two outs in the seventh inning, which brought the tying run to the play but if Listen typically over the course of any sixty game stretch. Essentially, every player in the big leagues is going to go through stretch four or five games with or not having success. If there's any good news again for the padres are winning and they're still twelve games to be played. So he's got time to work himself out of it. Maybe it's pressing a little. Bit that such a spectacular star Jim is only twenty. One can ofer six year today. I don't think it's caused for great concern. But again, for the first time all year he's struggling at one I last fifteen the fact that in those last seven games he is slumping you know this entire month he is not is not at the plate Ben particularly well. And this team is still won seven in a row. It's it's kind of amazing that they can do that and they can. They can withstand. You know a slump from Todd Totti's, and then the bullpen delivers night in night out now the starting rotation is. Lights out in Chris Paddock dig injured. But still he had a good couple lanes there. Aguirre Richard Dot Pitch Pretty well, today groups you and I feel like the only reason why they put Gary Richards. Is because they needed to get the bullpen maybe a little bit of work because they would have been four straight days of the bullpen. Pitching because of the Games lost on Friday and Saturday, and then today they didn't pitch and then going into tomorrow night's game. You WanNa have at least some type of work before you face off against the dodgers and I know this team because they've been asked, right? Hey what do you think the dodgers? What do you think about catching the dodgers and the the status quo answer them as we're just worried about ourselves we're just worried about ourselves. But it's hard not to think now looking at the standings that at worse they'll be two and a half games back going into tomorrow night against the dodgers at home for three game series like it is set up for for the padres perfectly 'cause laments GonNa Pitch Tomorrow, night. And they have a chance. Now it's an outside shot because the dodgers have been swept all year they've only lost what one series of home. Series of allows one series. So Ariza shot, right it's out there that if they get the sweep they will, they will then lead the division with about nine games to go. Right they'd have a half game lead although the dodgers would still have that half game in hand, which means they could get back even with a win, but they would be even in the loss column if the padres sweep the dodgers but to your point, so you're going in two and A. Half Games back at all likelihood. There's a possibility of Houston comes back tonight from a big deficit. You'd be a game half out. So if you're two and a half out, even winning a series, Jim and pulling to it's in a game and a half gives you a very realistic chance to catch them down the stretch because the padres will finish Seattle on the Road Los Angeles, the angels at home, and then four games at Oracle Park in San Francisco the fourth game. Has Not yet been announced. I would guess the Middle Game of three game series will be a double header at Oracle because the giants are playing sixty games the giants are thick or right now in the thick of the playoff chase, they're not gonNA have the giants play fifty nine games and the padres they're gonna WanNa have played sixty games as well playing for seating and they might be playing for an NFL west. So you can win this series if I'm the. Padres, if I'm Jay Stigler. I'm not putting too much pressure on my team to go out and be perfect in this series. Try to win this series. Don't try to sweep the series. Of course, you'll take the sweep but if you can find a way against a good baseball team to win two out of three that means you've won nine out of ten overall, there is no team hotter right now than the padres who since Fernando Totti's junior swung three Oh in Arlington. Or Twenty and five at not looked back they were under five hundred. When he swung at that pitch, I've said that few times they were eleven and twelve firmly leading that game against the Rangers and like you said, they haven't looked back there twenty and five I'll take my chances against the against the dodgers anywhere and that's the chance they have this week Monday Tuesday? Wednesday. I like having lament pitch in the series by the way clever in his career. Did you see this is the only had one appearance like one plate appearance against any every dodgers? Yes. So. He's never faced the dodgers he has faced. Dodger has faced him but he has never faced the dodgers I believe. Okay. So I think that works to the advantage of the padres if they meet in the postseason and by the way by pitching cleven jer today a smart essentially saying Cleven Jersey Game One starter. Yeah. By putting clever in front of Lamont, you're not doing that turn in the rotation. And the final turn of the rotation into the into the postseason. So I think it's going to be cleven jer who pitched like an ACO today followed by Jerusalem big opportunity tomorrow night for lament no question and the thing with the padres this last ten years right was they couldn't win games in their division that was their problem is division games they were horrible in division this year they're seventeen nine against. Three teams, the National League, West and just three and four against the dodgers. So they're twenty and thirteen against the NL West that's that's what you need to do. You need a win against your division opponents and that's how you make the postseason and that's what we said coming into this year because there are so many division games they needed to play welcomes their division and they played well against their division tomorrow night it just it's GonNa be. It's GonNa be the series that I think while they're not saying it it's the series they've been looking forward to because they've been playing such good baseball, right they now have a shot to catch the dodgers outside shot. It's going to take a lot right? It's going take a lot of winning and a lot of dodger losing and it's hard to say the dodgers are. GonNa lose that many games but they've given self this shot and I think it's great for the psyche of the team to to know that they're in striking distance of the dodgers and if they don't catch the dodgers, that's okay. They're still going to be the four seed in the National League. It's highly doubt or how scenario where they drop past the four Cedeno they shouldn't they. Shouldn't, and they're definitely not going to get below second place in the National League West it's it's almost. Impossible for that to happen, well, the magic number. Now to clinch second place in the West is down to six and the padres still have twelve games remaining what that means. Any combination of padres wins coupled with third place losses. Right now is the giants that equal six means the giants excuse me the Padres have clinched second place in the West to your point it's all but assured I mean the padres in these final twelve games. If. They win four of them and go four and eight and the giants lose twice in final dozen games than the ponchos will clinch second place. Let's get to the Games on field here today beginning with game one padres impressive shutout win behind my clever records again, his second career shutout seven next two hits one walk seven strikeouts, the Padres in this game Jim do what they've done all year and that's Gore, six, two out runs. Every single run in this game was played with two outs including Greg RC as big on single in the second inning the Koch you on the Board Will Myers big to run single in the third inning that made it four nothing than an RBI basit jerks in profile as well in the sixth inning part of two runs that plated in that sixth-inning they've been. So Clutch what they've dealt with men in scoring position this year leads. Major League Baseball and then what they've done with two outs leading baseball and runs scored with two outs again, it's just like it's a perfect storm right now offensively, and while the padres eight hits in this game I, know it was only seven innings and then a game two, six, zero, fourteen hits in fourteen innings good total. But they're scoring runs including six runs in that opener because a clutch hitting and now but hottest sitters. Pro Far he's brought his average all the way up to two, fifty, four, nine after game two against the giants. Later today, we'll get to that in a bit here, but he has been one of the teams hottest hitters and there was a point there where I know a lot of fans were wondering and asking why jerks profile out there sky can't hit. You know he did not have a good first month and a half of the year but he's been hot lately and he's been one of your most productive hitters and he made a great play in the outfield today in the second game he's been handling the bat very very well for this team I think he's hitting over four fifty s last eight games. With the PADRES. Pretty good. So that's pretty good I would say. It's just a testament to how deep this lineup is right when you're not having guys like Totti's or Moreland or. Griffin was one for four in the first game but you have guys like pro far in krona worth in Garcia and Myers wrapping up all contributing in that first game a they didn't need six runs, but they scored six runs and clever shut everything down it. Just it's just another testament to how deep this lineup is with all the production pretty much coming from the bottom the order, and then you look at a guy like Austin Nola who I think. has now made eight starts for the padres behind home plate and San Diego has four shutouts in those eight games That's interesting. So they've skipped absolutely no beat defensively we're told for years and years how good defensively Austin hedges plays the position and he is he's an excellent Defensive Catcher but Austin Nola has proven to be an all around player exactly Nolan. Game WanNA single a walk to on scored in game two he was the she was over three but. He has provided so much on both sides of the ball for the padres and then you've got, you know a clear secondary catcher right now, your backup catcher Jason Castro's caught a lot of big league games and has some pop off the bench for you. He started game two. Walked he was over one only two at bats. There's no easy. In that game there's no not really I mean, there's not right now. We'll Myers is pacing for an incredible year I just saw. Judson tweet this out he's pacing four, forty home runs one, hundred fifteen. One, hundred, sixty, two game season he's sitting to ninety six with twelve home runs thirty four RBI's in forty four games played. You talk about the potentially the NFL Comeback Player of the year who could be other than we'll Myers who has played so well, all year it's hard to think about anybody else other than we'll Myers and we all said all right. How just going to perform when air COSMA went down they have not skipped a beat like at all it's kind of like. Mars team and or not. We'll Mars Eric Hosmer. Excuse me the Silveira 'cause you know it's like Oh cool. When he comes back if he does then that's another added bonus lineup and the depth of this team and Oh, by the way Tommy Fam I'm sure it's coming back very soon about him right so another bat you can add to this lineup. This lineup is crazy. It's insane how good they are and how deep they are. There's nobody on this roster right now or at least nobody in the starting lineup that I look at is you know an easy out or Is. It Starts Matteo. Is Is You know obviously the the other reasons he he's there to pinch you're on he's there is still a base he's there for a defensive replacement you don't WanNa start them and to their credit they really haven't started them. You know what I mean like there was a period in time where he was getting a couple of starts and I think they saw what we saw which is he was a little bit overexposed in those circumstances. Lewis can't be Sano to get some at bats and then we saw own you get. To get some bats off the bench and you're right Matteo in the postseason obviously going to start any game for the padres but could help you win a game absolutely because he pinch. Ron's maybe steals a base and maybe scores on the basis, the outfield maybe scores and important Ron just there the padres quick note on Eric Hosmer since I mentioned him there I tweeted out this picture of him. He was seen I think drinking a coffee like in the Dugout, and if you look carefully, he's not wearing any splint on his on his left index finger. You kind of see a little bump there and might be. Swelling but he was holding the can of coffee with his left hand with no splint and drinking it and look like everything was fine now. Obviously I'm not a doctor. So I don't know when he might be back but they did mention it's one of those things where they're going to wait ten days and it's might be a situation. Where just can he deal with the pain? You can you deal with the pain threshold in that left finger and they'll take that baby up and I'm sure he'll try to go and it's also the top fingers. So he's not putting too much pressure on that when he when he's Holding the BAT. So. That's another good sign that that there's nothing on his hand, right? Really good sign I think if I'm the padres I want back for the final weekend I don't need to force it beyond that gives them a bats. If you could play in two or three games the final weekend and get ten or fifteen played appearances. This guys thirty I don't think it needs more than fifteen plate appearances in the big leagues. Now to prepare for the postseason, which would be on Wednesday, the National League playoffs will begin the Wednesday after the regular season ends on a Sunday back to clovinger for a moment Jim, he retired thirteen consecutive batters at one point in this game he's not GonNa Three Point Zero Zero and three starts for the Padres I. Think he said his first two starts at San. Diego Felt A. Little bit like summer camp starts and this was the first where he really felt as if he had settled into a groove, he through multiple pitches for strikes he got ahead of batteries. He didn't really battle. He only walked one and this is the guy that I think Indians fans saw for a long period of time padres fans get a chance to see someone from the first inning was pitching well, and that's what we saw here today maybe for the first time this year and a padres uniform. What did I say after his last outing I said I think is next out we'll. Will be the outing. We'll see the room right levinger because the first one super nervous making your debut with your team on the road and the crazy travel that he had to do. Me Still had a quality start going six given up to, and then his next outing was the first outing. May He made it home? He mentioned he was nervous they ended up scoring two million runs that game. So didn't really matter. Right gave up three runs on the first inning to no one Aaron out of the three run home and give up four overall was like a cheap run there in. The fifth and he said findings four runs but he went through five and at one point he retired eleven in a row and I said, I was like look this guy next outing. That's GonNa be the real might clever because he's going to be settled down with his new team. He's already taken care of the debut at the team and the debut at home in dealing with all that pressure right in the travel and switching teams the trade. Now he's settled in new. Now this is where we're going to see the real might clovinger and today was the real might clovinger going. Seventy. It's a quote unquote complete game It was a shutout only two hits striking out seven giving up one walk and to CEOS just against the giants well, guess what the giants at the third best offense in an entire league So they had the third most runs scored in the entire league. So it was like they're facing he was facing a lineup that. Doesn't on its hodges or excuse me the giants or the hottest team in baseball entering the series on Thursday, they had won five straight games. The padres had won four straight games. The giants were fifteen and five coming into the series. I think the giants had aspirations of still finishing in second place in this division before the padres did what the Patriots did to the giants. A little bit maybe like what's coming up here with the padres and the dodgers podger padres have aspirations of passing the dodgers in the division. The question becomes can they do it and can they play well at home against La Monday through Wednesday of this upcoming week let's look to game two for a moment jim or the padres win through one that's their seventh consecutive win their nineteenth come from behind win. Again, it gets their magic number to clinch any playoff spot or excuse me second place in the division down to six and in this game. Will Myers trailing by Ron. You mentioned it earlier hits a home run in the second inning off Logan, web and then. You inherited luxury items like heirloom jewelry, Diamond Rings, golder coins that you want to sell if so call Samuelsen's to schedule your one on one consultation. samuelsen's understands that choosing to sell your items personal choice they provide a safe private and clean environment to meet with you and evaluate your items and with the price of gold and other precious metals at an all time. High is the time to sell Paul Samuelson today at three, oh, one, two, three, four, seven, zero, two, five, or visit samuelsen's buyers dot com Samuelson sell with competence. Saying tall is not the same thing I say, not at the Fisher. The Fisher House I know is a huge part of recovery for somebody like my husband for them to know that their family members are being taken care of that's a huge burden off of them so they can concentrate on their therapies. Just having that assurance that no matter what as long as we were there, for Anson, that someone would be there to take care of us. It took so much weight off our shoulders. How can you help go to fisherhouse dot org dill tied at all the way into the fifth inning and the way they get out in front is back toback walks to lead off the inning. Then jerks and profile gives you the lead with an RBI. Single and you score two runs there in the fifth inning and the bullpen does the rest like you said a little bit whole home. I was a bit surprise that Garrett Richards went to. Sixty, five pitches. So was he he was not pleased when j stiegler came out there. In fact, I don't even think he looked at him I. don't even think they contact. He just walked off the mound I don't even know if you had the ball of the ball was one of his teammates supposed to take the baseball when you get taken of. Okay. So he just walked off the man without acknowledging J. Stigler. He he no, he's had some short outings. He's had some quick hooks and he goes four two third innings allows two hits and one run. You wonder what that means for Richards in the postseason knowing that the. Padres haven't trust him to like get an additional out through sixty five pitches in this game I grew you the bullpen needed some workmen sixty five pitches is not a lot for a starting pitcher. If you'RE GONNA ask him to start in the playoffs and I think James Taylor said after the game and we'll hear from him coming up here in a bit that they treated that any like the seventh inning because of it was because it was a short game you know. So in that situation there, they had just trump ski coming up they gotTa left-handed Rhett left-hander ready Tim hills pitched great for you the last you know. Handful of outings for him he came in there got the two outs, moved it over to Pomeranz and Rosenthal. Now that's the end of that. You know the bullpen to me was the story of game too because it just adding onto their dominance of late and just how good their eighth and ninth inning arms are like we know Pomeranians is your eighth inning guy. Now we know Rosenthal is your ninth inning guy. Now you have plenty of weapons to pitch in the seventh with begun. How great he looked his last outing Tim Hill match Traum like just one of the I l. he went on the I l. but I think. He'll be back. It sounds like they say, Zeman pitching with some knee pain for a better portion of the season. That's I, mean he's pitched really well pitch. Well, he's got like a three year right but that's something that to keep our eye on I. Think Dan Alta Villa like they have a bunch of arms for that seven n roll right in tonight it was Tim Hill for that quote unquote seventh and enroll so. The bullpen is clicking at just the right time and it's no coincidence that you see when the bullpen your went down this team's win started going up right because they could have had more more way more wins before that ranger series when Taty swung three Oh sure because the bullpen gave runs gave a lot of late any leads and it was a huge concern and it turned into now the strength one of the strengths of this team which it couldn't have happened at a better time. Yeah you're right. I mean the bullpen era right now they're nine and two cents to trade deadline. The padres are nine into. The padres even before we again prowler knew we had a good team and he decided to roll the dice and see if he can make the team. Better. He had a good clubhouse they were playing good baseball. But you gotta give credit, you know without risk there isn't maybe that great reward on the other side and there was some risk associated with making six trades you know bringing in two new catchers. Bringing in obviously a frontlines starter like my clever getting rid of some options off the Bachelorette Josh. Naylor's Josh Naylor Anti France Francis played really well for Seattle and eight or nine games with the mariners since that trade but prowler deserves credit because the padres have gotten better and that was the goal put yourself in a position not just to make. The postseason. But to win in the postseason, win around or two or more who knows win a world series, we've seen teams in wild cards and again every team this year is in the wildcard round but we've seen wildcard teams like the giants go on to win world series. It's not far fetched to think that someone's going to get to s earn. That wouldn't have necessarily been thought to get there when the season started two months ago and you could put the padres in that conversation. You know maybe people thought the Pasha's and make the playoffs. Make the national. Championship series. Well, that's very much on the line right now based on how they've played and just show you how like good. This team is just look at. His numbers last seven games. If you looked at AO, Totti's numbers and you would have told me okay these last seven games he goes what one I last fifteen that's his last five games. He's had some hits in the Games prior to that. But let's say it and we're making that. But let's say he's hit two hundred seven game. That's accurate. Okay. So He's His last seven games. Oh, by the way, the padres are seven and no. That's a scary thing to think about for everybody else because if you have a hot teas like this team. Right now with the bullpen, the pitching the contributions up and down the lineup Oh and then you're gonNA throw in a hot totti's. That's a scary thought for everyone else to be honest I, it's the the padres I would not want to play them in the postseason. Nobody's GonNa WanNa, play him. You know and if you're the PADRES, you want to win this division, there's the psychological advantage of ending the dodgers. You have an opportunity by the way you control your own destiny as crazy as that sounds about that. Because if you sweep through the dodgers, you control your own destiny to win the division. Now Easier said than done they've got twelve games remaining by saying they control their own destiny. I'm essentially saying if they win their last twelve games, they win the division. That's accurate statement. It's very difficult to do that in baseball the hottest team in baseball there twenty, five, one, thousand, nine, hundred down the stretch when nineteen straight, it would be nineteen consecutive wins the longest winning streak and patriots franchise history one of the longest winning streaks in baseball history but you get my point, they do control it because. They can go through the dodgers now right and they're not going to be more than two and a half games back, and if you swift the dodgers, presumably the dodgers will lose again if they get swept by the PADRAS presumably, they will lose again as well. But these are exciting times. I mean these are exciting times in San. Diego. We should hear from the manager J stiegler after the padres sweep through the giants who came in again among the hottest teams in baseball. But the padres dropped the giants under five hundred by sweeping a doubleheader sweeping shorten three-game series that was supposed to be a four game series. They win today in the Twin Ville six nothing in game one behind my cleven. Three one and game two behind Garrett Richards and the bullpen. We'll take a timeout. When we come back, we'll hear from the manager James Taylor. We'll also hear from Michael Savage who recorded that second career shutout in Game One padres move to thirty, one and seventeen. This is the wrap up show on Xtra. The wrap up show rolls on four five, seven, zero, thirteen, sixty. Hello. React Sandiego here are John Shaffer and Jim Russell. Sweep a doubleheader from the giants they win game one by clever six nothing. They take aim to at PETCO three to one by Richards and the bullpen John Shaffer Jim Russell back with you here on the wrap-up shows. So the padres have won seven straight. Let's hear from their manager postgame. Here's James Taylor. Now. It's it's It's a lot of fun I guess the answer, the question and and it's really hard to Take a double header to to get both games certainly helps you you go fourteen innings and you know you're pitchers gave up one run against a really good offense. So. Obviously, you know a lot of people a lot of departments contributed but you know I think the the group on the mound like I said going fourteen innings and only giving up one run huge. We'll talk a little bit last game about not needing the beginning all the time to get the job done this this last couple of games six for twelve years and scoring position. Timely hitting it seems like. Yeah. We haven't besides wills I guess shot to Dead Center. Haven't gotten You know the the big one but you know. We talked all year about being able to manufacture Ron's been able to score runs in different ways and and You know today a lot a of timely hitting two out hits and you know it's a 'cause They're big hits when guys are on base and certainly in scorn. they're all huge especially. As good as the giants pitch today and just being able to to add one on here there and then the the importance of that especially with the the way our pitchers throwing It was a good combination today. But you're. Far. That's something that you guys Paula at something that he did Amazon. Yeah. He went up there we we talked about it a he's you know one of. The better Just bad handlers on the team. He can do a lot of different things. You can hit the ball the other way can buy and so. When the situation came up if Castro was to get on, I think. I do want to mention. You know celmins been so tough especially on lefties and for for Kernan worth to win his at bat and then Castro to win his. So as Castro was kind of battling hit his at Bat profile. You know we we were talking about some ideas and and He wanted to go up and and give it a try and it worked out. Thoughts on Gary Richards out. Exactly. So I thought Garett. Didn't have the command early certainly the first Got The first two batters then ran away from him and he really battled through the second and And you strip see got him squared him up down the line we got we got that ball land and then I thought he did well after I thought he was the aggressor thought he found a couple of things that that was working for him and he was starting to roll We were in a situation with the seven inning You know we almost treat it like it was the seventh inning Probably could have let GARETT WE KINDA debated it go back out there. At the time I thought you strip ski was really the only guy that at that that had put in two really good swings on on G. And because the the way, the guys have been throwing certainly Garrett with his last outing going as long as he did in Oakland and and obviously we had the. The two games down clever goes the the the shutout complete game before. So we had a fresh and. I just thought you know take our chances with hill and you strips key and and it worked out we're able to score and then being able to give the ball to palm and Rosenthal, and let them do their thing ended up working out to. Kevin Spacey. In going back more in your vision for what you want to accomplish, but teens going to finish above five hundred, some that hasn't done around here in a long time. Of that. It's probably something modestly that It feels good you like honestly like didn't Our minds not not place. It's probably more. You know when we're done playing at the end of the year, some things will look back because. You know we're just trying to keep improving, believe our best balls ahead. We got things we can. We can improve on and we're just going you know day to day with it and we're having a blast doing it. soul really the the focal point is is you know the present and then you know looking ahead, very minimal and just trying to enjoy the moments because it's it's really hard to win up here. It's extremely hard. There's there's not much room for air and Our guys are are doing a good job right now a plane winning baseball. J. Stigler is the padres start a ten game homestand seven Oh, I mean completely dispatching of the teams behind them in the rockies had visions of maybe reaching second-placed start last week podger, swift them out of a four game series this week in the giants they've got visions of catching the padres potentially Indiana. West that's now all. But forgotten if you're San Francisco giants fan as the padres went three consecutive games, can they do really the unthinkable Jim and swift the dodgers and go ten and on a home stand? The level of competition only increases now obviously heading into this week Monday Tuesday, Wednesday and bought a we have. A pitching matchup of all pitching matchups on Monday denounced Clin Kershaw is a hell of a pitching matchup to store of that series. But you start you start to look at and you start to wonder if the padres can keep this thing going for the final two weeks of the season probably not a lot of teams go rhino on a ten game homestand probably doesn't happen. But no. You know if you can win two or three here, you won't catch the dodgers. You know standings. Wise. But it's still a notch in your cap that, hey, guess what we took two or three from you you know and we threw out one of our best pitchers and I I think David is going to pitch the series as well. Right? He's scheduled to pitch the series. Yeah. Okay. So you know lament, Davies and whatever's going to happen with paddock and his start like that's pretty good wh you know Clemenger won't pitch against them, but still just a psyche aspect of it from. On the like taking two or three from the dodgers having a chance to go five and five against them in the regular season this year like it's a big I. think it's a big deal. You know I don't I don't envision them sweeping. I really don't it's hard. It's hard to get sweep image league, Taylor and especially against one of the best teams in the League, the dodgers they've been the most consistent. They've been the best and you know the padres are on their heels. But it's just hard seen than than sweeping. Now the good thing is that there are over five hundred, they're a lock for the postseason, and even if you lose this series, you know if swept if that's the worst case scenario, it really is not that big of a deal. You know like that's the best part about this series one, hundred percent lose the series or even get swept and it doesn't even matter. It's a little bit of a house money series exactly you're playing with. House money. Now, the only detriment to getting swept in the series and I think you'd Agree Jim is that if you get swept in that series, it's hard to really anticipate a National League divisional series. Let's the padres and the dodgers and feel great about where you are. That's true. You can say, thank you follow month of the season man we beat everyone but the dodgers, and here we are sitting in the second round of the postseason on a neutral field taking the highest the. Dodgers team that once again as one a season series from us, something that the padres have not been able to do against the dodgers since two thousand ten. So that's the only element that now if you lost two hundred three here, could you still want to series against the dodgers investor five series? Of course you could they could get swept, get outscore thirty, two nothing and still wanNA series the playoffs. You know how the playoffs are a different beast or they could swift the dodgers thirty two nothing and then losing a best of five series against La in the postseason this is just all about opportunities the padres have played so well, they've. Presented themselves with opportunities that they might not have have envisioned. They might not have envisioned to start this year or even start this homestand or even two weeks ago but. Listen the dodgers are GONNA win tonight barring collapse in the ninth inning. The dodgers are GONNA win tonight it'll be two and a half games better than the padres. Dodgers will be thirty, three and fourteen. The padres will be thirty one and seventeen two and a half games back. But still with everything to play for heading into Monday night with the Nelson Lament on the man whose pitch like one of the better two or three pitchers in the national league this year and yeah, you're right like it is a psyche thing. So if you get swept by the dodgers here, it won't really mean anything standings. Wise. But at the same time, you set yourself up for okay. Yeah. We beat everybody else except for the dodgers don't want to have that in your mind. You just want to have that in your mind that we can play these guys right where we can stand toe to toe with them and we can compete with the best of the best because now we have a team that's capable of doing that we stack up with anybody in the league pitching. Wise. We stack up with anybody in the league with our line up we stack up with anybody in the league right now with the way our bullpens pitching, and if you end up getting swept by the dodgers, it's like Oh. Okay. I guess that sucks you know and it's a psychological thing. That's why we ended winning the vision while while it'd be great. It doesn't really mean much in the post season It's a psychological thing to overtake the dodgers finally. After how many years of being you know in the cellar of the nationally west and seeing the dodgers win the division seven straight years every time they come down and PETCO park their fans invade PETCO. It's you know dodger stadium south and it's just one of those things like enough's enough right enough's enough and you have a chance to finally say that. With the upcoming three games was won't mean much if they lose I think it would definitely is gonNA, mean a lot if they win the series or even sweep them because they sweep them, they lead the National League West with nine games to play. I'd be absolutely shocked if the PADRAS were swept this week by the dodgers considering Nelson Lament and Zach Davies. Will Pitch in the series and both have been brilliant this year just considering the way the padres have played, who will maybe get back one of their starting position players and Tommy Fam-. They don't really need Tommy. Fam- right now with the way, jerks and profile has played like you've been talking about pro for here today game one, they're eighteen and six at home. That's really I. Mean Pro Foreign Game One, two for three pro-foreign game two, one for one. The RBI single walk had that that play the J. Stigler talked about where it looked as if he was squaring then he pulled back butcher boy and got it by the third Baseman Longoria I thought. Longoria. Should make that play even though he was drawn in off his. What's that? He's not Manny Machado. It was hit Adam right I mean it was hit right Adam and it was office made into left field was ruled a single padres took a lead. They wouldn't relinquish it in the three one victory. So the Padres as we talk right now jim or two games out, they'll likely be two and a half games out at the end of the night dodgers playing on Sunday night baseball and leading the astros the last time the padres were two games out in September or October the final day of the two thousand ten regular season when they lost in San Francisco three nothing. To Finish two games back and missed the postseason going ninety and seventy two. That was the team that had a large lead in the West over the giants. But suffered a ten game losing streak at the end of August into September, before relinquishing the division to the giants who would go on and win the world series in two, thousand and ten. That's the last time the giant excuse me the padres were this close to first place. Yeah. It's a little different right if the police are still going to be in the playoffs and if if if they're postseason was expanded back, then because it wasn't only one wild because they're the padres has been easily and padres are easily in you know so. And if it's an expanded postseason like is it has now padres are easily and. I look at that compared to now is completely different I. Know It's happened in their history, but it just there's there's no way here. There's no way you know if you if you lose every single down the stretch. Winning record is there in the postseason thirty one and twenty nine is going to be enough right now the eighth seed is under five hundred. I mean the Chinese are under five hundred. 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Just having that assurance that no matter what as long as we were there for Anson, that someone would be there to take care of us. Took so much weight off our shoulders. How can you help go to Fisherhouse Dot Org Jersey shirt of being at least two games over five hundred at thirty one and twenty nine all right. We talked about like clovinger. Let's hear from him. Now he talked after game one again, a shutout for Cleven Jer, this is clever you're on if he felt more comfortable today for the Padres, take a listen but definitely felt or coke think also the day game really early me morning person kind of helped me dial in and bring it back a little bit. So we really find the even Keel of control aggression. My favorite he's the best player. He's made for San Diego ever besides Totti's I mean this dude is made for San Diego like the skateboards in the. Picking up early I WANNA to drink a couple beers later on go skateboarding show by the be. Good food where should I go? Should I go? It's chill Bra like Dude I. Love you the best and he pitched great today's he can say and do whatever he wants. Let's see if he can keep that up down the stretch. This is Jase Tingler after game one on how fun it was to watch clever work today. Way. Through Thought him in Nola were just on the same page all day and he was able to execute his pitches, mix them in and did a great job just attacking and staying on the attacking did a good job. His position which I think helped as well at least twice. and had the defense engage because of is. Just, as quick tempo working and and just pound in the zone. So it was well needed for a doubleheader for game. One Any questions you have about this team right now he's been answered obviously over the last four weeks when they've gone twenty and five I mean what are the questions right now? Will they get fully healthy will Tommy Families Twenty nine thousand four will Lewis can't be Sato contribute late in the season he's been out with wrist will eric hosmer perform. We'll get him back at the end of the regular season like what else? What are the questions surrounding this team offense is good as there isn't baseball rotation top five in baseball bullpen pitching like top five in baseball. What are your questions? I'm trying to think the only question right handed bat. The only question I have with this team you know is a question that won't even really matter in the postseason and that's Chris Paddock right? Like if Chris Paddock is rolling question, then you're not you're fine because you're not going to be pitching them in the postseason. He won't be on the starting rotation. He won't be getting a game there unless it's like a someone else gets injured because you already have three starters and paddock maybe could pitch and a seven game series for your visa four starter but you also have richards. So that's a question there but other than that like okay hello. Get Tommy Fan back get. Eric hosmer back. Don't have any lapses down the stretch. You have what? Twelve Games left here games and you've got still three days. Now you're GONNA play double header not an off day. Okay. At Oracle. So you play twelve games over the course of they still have fourteen days and then they have two days after the regular season before the plan Wednesday I mean I mean just this team just goes five hundred down the stretch after it's hard to say that because they just won seven in a row right? Like just go five, hundred, thirty, seven games. Which is clearly evident three it's over six hundred baseball I mean, yeah, it's it's a really good record. You're right and at this point, if you're padres fan I, think you start thinking about getting gritty hoping for more and speaking of hoping for more Jim like if you look ahead, this is something that the padres won't do but we can do it talk about Chris Panic if the Patriots win the first round, the wild card round, and if it takes three games well, then you might have to throw Chris Paddock in game one of the NFL l.. Or Gary Richards. Because if you go clever cleverer lament Davies on a Wednesday, Thursday Friday then of a day off on a Saturday and start a series on a Sunday I, don't know if that's how it's GonNa work or not. Then you can't throw cleven game one of that series unless you do it on three days rest I don't think they would do that. No to open a series. So if you get out of the first round, and if it takes you three games as opposed to then you're gonNa Start Either Richards or Chris Paddock in game one against the dodgers of the National League Divisional Division series, which is a good thing is you've gotten there but you're not starting Davies or Or clever if it takes a three games to win that first series, right? I yeah. I mean that's why you need for starters. I didn't think about that but that would make sense because you wouldn't want to pitch clovinger on three days. So why would you do that because he could pitch game to although then you could bounce them back on game five. If he's GonNa go short rest I'd rather have them go short than game five then in Game One, right? and. So okay that's my question you need to have Garrett Richards or Chris Paddock. themselves. I thought Richards. The last two stars have been good and that's why I thought. Maybe they'd give them a chance to get through that fifth inning. Understand. Tingler. Like Osama tending and it makes sense the goal is to win and to be honest with you if I pick right now I'm picking Gary Richards because historically lifetime paddock has not pitch well against the dodgers and Richard says. Has Yep so Now it's just okay. Gary Richards. You hope he can pitch like he has down the stretch here right? Because he's had a couple of good outings in a row. The out in Colorado when he went four, it was a quick four innings right because he because he's off three days rest healing only two innings that previous starting the Astros became impeached forties against the rockies I believe only gave up one hit in that outing ever since then he's been really good. So continue with that story with that streak for him down the stretch, and if you get past the first round games, he'll get ever get guarantors game winning dodge, and by the way you'd only be asking for him to go something like he went today four two third innings because of this bullpen yep? Like you could go richards four and a third and you can turn it over to Ulta villa or Tim Hill or gone, and then knowing the eighth and ninth secured right in pomerance and Rosenthal I mean if you get your star through five innings and you've got back guys like pu-gon pomerance and Rosenthal then you only need like one additional bridge inning and you've got so many options out there hopefully, strong comes back healthy. But again, you've got some Tim Hill who's been very good for this team and moving to three no here today. So the padres sweep, the doubleheader, they have won seven consecutive games they get. The dodgers on Monday at Petco Park in what would be the biggest home series Petco Park since who knows and you can only imagine what the crowds would be like at three consecutive sold out games Monday Tuesday and Wednesday, if not for this pandemic so we know that there won't be people in the stands but the eyeballs on this team this week both in La I think with dodgers fans knowing that the padres are right there on their heels and here in San Diego with the padres playing eight hundred baseball over the last twenty, five games. I. Mean. This is anticipated of a series as you're, GonNa? Find in a regular season in San Diego and again, it just sucks there's no fans 'cause you know that the tide would start to be shifting here and the PETCO not be overrun by dodger fans there'd be lot dodger fans there no doubt about it, but there would be way more padres. They're making a lot of noise because this team is the team that they've been waiting for the team that they've been asking for for how long now you know like they have a while legitimately to MVP candidates they have a rookie of the year they have a comeback player of the year they have legitimate cy young. Nelson met and. Mike. Clements Mike Clovinger. They have a manager of the year Jay's Taylor they have an executive of the year the just. The I did say come back Myers. So they have everything that this fan base is wanted for over a decade like this would have been. Just electric and that's what sucks. But the stupid pandemic that we will not get that electric feeling these upcoming three games against the dodgers instead we're just GONNA have to watch watch and feed off it and be electrical home but you're really like, I'm feeling it. I mean rounds India go. Now I mean it's amazing when I wear padres stuff around San. Diego, like. I've got these mass and I get people talking to all the time out for a walk go padres and people are obviously excited as they should be because this team has played as well as any team in baseball other than the dodgers this year. All right. Let's take a look at the scores around the NFL west here today again, the dodgers in progress against Houston. On Sunday night baseball and the dodgers boring in absolute collapse will win tonight they're leaning in the bottom of the eighth inning five one against the astros trying to split a two game series at dodger stadium. The angels in Rockies played earlier today of course field and the angels Pete Iraqis five to three also earlier today Seattle in Arizona against the diamondbacks and the mariners. Who have played really good baseball in the second half of the year, beat the diamondbacks who've been complete disappointment seven to three. So here's how I'm going to do the standings I'm going to do it with the dodgers winning this game. The dodgers with the wind moved to thirty three and fourteen assuming they hold on that's two and a half games better than the padres. Thirty one and seventeen the giants twenty three and twenty four or ten games down and seven and a half games behind the padres with twelve to play. So the padres securely in second place in the NFC West the rockies are twenty one and twenty five eleven and a half games out and the diamondback seventeen at thirty one. I mean what happened they were over five hundred last year there sixteen and a half games out. But heading into Monday night Jim the Padras tune Afghans twelve to play three games against the dodgers to Nelson. Lament against Clinton Kershaw. What a match up. Man. has just like that's that's the matchup you want. Right there may clovinger but denotes the mets. Your best pitcher all year most consistent pitcher all year you WANNA go up against the best and tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow night's match up. It's It's must watch television now. PADRES dodgers Monday at six ten listen to the numbers for lament. This year is two and one with a two point two four listened to the numbers for the left-hander Clinton Kershaw the future hall of Famer where the greatest left handed pitchers in baseball history five and one with a one point nine eighty or a lumet has never beaten the dodgers ever in the regular season. In five starts he's Owen three with respectable four point three nine ers Clayton. Kershaw against the padres has some of the best lifetime numbers of any pitcher against the padres ever. He's twenty one in six with a one point nine eight. Career era. So Kennedy as lineup before that's the thing can limit and the padres reverse history against Kershaw in a season that has really reversed history for the padres at thirty one and seventeen lament and kershaw Monday at six ten, the first of three from PETCO. Park. In a vitally important game for both teams that lines up like this lament game one Davies game to will see about game three paddock if healthy maybe throws Wednesday. If not, who knows maybe a bullpen day with the Pacers have done against the dodgers actually earlier this year at Dodger Stadium and if you're throwing ager more home like I'm GonNa that. Good point he's throwing well for this team absolutely in the second half of the year right here the totals in these two games today San Diego Game One six runs on eight hits and no errors they left on four San Francisco no runs on two hits in an era they left onto my clever the winning pitcher seven innings to hit seven strikeouts. One Walk. He's three two overall as Johnny. Cueto takes the loss went five and a third innings allowed six runs, four of which were earned in game two San Diego three runs on six hits an error the projects left on three the giants one run on three hits and no heirs. The giants left on five winning pitcher Tim Hill a safer Trevor Rosenthal, his third as. A Padre tenth overall and the losing pitcher in relief was saying Sam. Selman. For the giants who by the way in this double header had five hits in fourteen innings and scored one run what a job by the staff that good padres here today very very good. All right. Our next wrapup show follows Monday's padres dodgers game at six ten you can tune immediately. Following the final out will be on xtra thirteen sixty and the iheartradio APP make sure to subscribe to the wrap up show on the free iheartradio APP, you'll get future episodes delivered into your APP. Automatically, you can go back and listen to previous episodes as well, and if you're padres fan and you're not following us on twitter, you need to do that at. John Shaffer? Jim Russell as deep for Jim Russell I'm John. Shafer sweep today of the twin bill by the padres they have won seven straight are thirty, one and seventeen the dodgers away. This has been the wrap up show an extra thirteen sixty. You've been listening to the wrap up. Show me listening after every padres game is John Shaffer Jim Russell breakdown. What happened why and how fellas can bring home a win On Your home for Sunday night baseball extra thirteen sixty. Mobile APPS IT, support cyber in network security. These are in demand and rewarding career paths you pursue with the Right Education Trust University with over fifty years of proven graduates, success EC, Pi University, our hands on approach keeps you engaged helping make what you thought was complex fun and exciting when you think technology think EC University and you could earn your bachelor's in two point, five years or less go to. Dot Edu to get started.
The Sleeper and the Bust Episode: 901 Starting Pitcher ADP Risers ft. Mike Kurland
"Welcome to episode nine hundred and one of the super bus. I'm just in mason joined by jason jason. Hey i'm doing while man. I took a three day weekend. Friday off so it's been super nice to catch up on some things. Get ready for a labor tonight to into a bunch of first pitch forum stuff and get out the joy free awesome weather. We have right not not not going to lie. It just pretty awesome outside how you doing. I'm doing all right whether it's pretty nice here. I don't actually even have to wear a sweatshirt in my office which is unusual. I nine o'clock in the morning. So that's nice and Yeah i'm just doing draft up stuff. So then updating my rank which the up on the site this week Did another one of those eighty market reports. And yeah so. It's just been a lot of work getting ready for my i think. Final seven or eight drafts of the season and then we'll be ready for opening day. Can't wait joining us. Today is a good buddy of mine. That's mike kurland of the podcast. Mike welcome the show. I appreciate option to be here. I have a huge small face because this is a show that has telling you before that it's always listen to be a part of it is kind of so real so again you guys are having. Of course i was hanging out on What the the list. Every night of weeks ago During or you know the the weekend a pitch conned in your all like oh yeah. It's kind of on my bucket list to get on the bus. And i was like oh i was going to have you on but i'm just gonna older over head for awhile. That's okay because you know peace appears like you know what i went up you. Just and he got me up fantasy prose. I so you know what yeah. He's he's so mike for those who don't know who you are letterman where he results social media and then talk about what you do appreciate it. You can follow me on twitter at mike underscore kurland as you mentioned the host bases-loaded podcast. I write i currently right for wrote a baller and prospects live and my big thing right. Now is a spring training line of stuff man. I have the sign of tracker created on google gets into my profile and i recently started my weekly. What's going to be a weekly our ongoing series pretty much all things lineups. Any manager quotes like find any playing time trends. I can identify as run out from spring. Training but season to apply applies. Well we're looking. We're watching every little thing. We can terms of tiny toons etc etc. So it all. It's pretty much health spring training lineups right out for me and your spring training up Google sheet is absolutely amazing. People should be going over to your twitter and finding that because it. It's super cool. I i know you mentioned to me the other night when we were doing a livestream For tgif fbi and as okay. i'll check it out. And then i went and checked it out. I think Yesterday the day. Before i was like god. Oh how am. I not been using this This week so people definitely gonna go check it out. You can show what each team's lineup was who they were going up against In terms of star starting Righty or lefty and then Kind of give you a little bit of fancy tank. And it's i think it's goal dude. It's pretty awesome. I appreciate that the idea kind of i found this. I fell into this last year. Because twenty twenty so fast paced rapid almost Lineups matter more now sees long than they ever have. So i decided to kind of take that idea that kind of came up with midseason transition into a spring training where we don't have much of a spring training tool like this so i'm kind of just taking this niche and running with it in so far so good. I'm really enjoying it. It is a lot of work but it's honestly a labor of love. I mean you gotta love it to put up with this long right So we're gonna talk about some Adp risers in starting pitching market But we've got a ton of news and notes cover and then we'll get to a mailbag question or two at the end. Oliver mailbox coming from the The discourse for for the patriots. So if you would like to have your questions read an answer on here. You've got to sign up for The patriot on and get one of the tears. That has the discord i think. The the the cheapest dischord tier is a four dollars and twenty cents. Because paul are children definitely do that. it's a small group right now. So you get a direct access to both paul and i. We gotta get jason in there at some point. So let's discord. Do you do discord somebody yesterday about clubhouse hell in here's being the buber else clubhouse Discordance because i have to suspend my kids access to it from time to time what it is it makes you feel better. I'm not a boom only thirty. And i don't know clubhouses so i'd ask somebody as well so guys. It's brand new. Someone on twitter asks paul knife we were in clubhouse announced like yeah. I don't know yeah. I feel a bit old to be clubhouse so i i don't know that i'm gonna join it but we'll see if feels like just this year's version of what was google plus or whatever it was I can't remember what their their facebook was in I've enough talked keeping up the slack like she and slack community loved But i can barely keep up with that and i. Can't you know. I'm not going to start going to pile on discord and i'll be in the picture list. Discord god now i make it peer pressure into one of them but i have. I have enough struggle. Yeah i have enough trouble keeping up with the fan graphs staff Slack by troubles. I'm united. don't keep with. I'm just hoping My boss is don't listen to this but anyways let's not let's talk some notable notes in transactions things like that Jagoda rizzi Right after paul. Night kind of finished recording on thursday. Signed a two year deal. I think on friday with a with the astros. They lost from revolt out does The also lost Forests wit lead. Tj which will talk about here In a moment but odor izzy is now locked into their rotation singer jason. I know you've been a big guy in the past or you can go back to the well known originally this you're gonna legs before before preferences there was Tweeted out an article. This morning from freaky town On twitter from espy nation. Who wrote a fantastic article A featured stuff about already so strongly suggest people go find that off my twitter feed but it talks about how there's a probably another level to If the astros can employ their Their their spin magic on people. I'm going to find the article so you can put it in in the show notes Justin but they're so go. Read that article of look at some tree About what could what could happen. Resume always been a fan just because he's typically tends to come dirt cheap And you don't have to worry about it now. The fit in minute maid park is not exactly an ideal fit for things by if he can't the astros can do what they've done with other pitchers legally Than perhaps there's gonna be Perhaps there's a little more upside to receive as you said when they lost dez. What appears to be for. Most if not the entire season with the finger injury And then for sweatless is seeking a second opinion but has already been told. The you're gonna have tj Type of thing. They had to do this. And so it's it's going to boost up his adp. I can tell you that he was going late. I mean he wanted. He wanted drafted at the point. We had when the news came out and he went s- Right around the fbi. He went in the in the middle of the twentieth round. So mike. are you buying on odor izzy here. I think you have to just the simple fact of the potential for buying opportunity right now. I'm you're talking about a guy. We jason mentioned how ladies going and the stuff is just interesting especially if the astros can work. Their magic with a razzie has the fastball. That seems to get decent rise. Nothing like oh my god special but it can play and then he has. You know the slider that wasn't utilize heavily last year. But i think he's gonna get a chance to maybe up central. This would be the team to do it a spinks. The third love to us. I just like to see what they're gonna play. They're gonna try to utilize that curb rumour and he gets crushed but maybe they can help them with a better grip. I'm more spin efficiency. Because he has the has the arsenal. It's a matter of putting it together. We know last year. I think Gobble lucky the answer to say considering he underperformed across the board compared to all his career totals again are smaller sample. i think there's a good bounceback attached and you're getting again dirt cheap and now even if you rise is what he still espy five type at the highest. Probably pay for him. So i'm okay with taking a shot. Odor is especially considering again even with inflation is still before it will. Yeah i mean he's gonna definitely rise up Interesting how far rises up. This kind of late and drop season definitely won't get to where he would have been had he been a. He's signed with the address earlier in the spring. And it's kind of nice situation. My biggest concern is something Jason is mentioned voter as a bunch of which he is awful third time through the order and the twins. They're really really good job of kind of using him on the first time since the order depending and so he gets to goes deep is He can get through those first two times and then he automatically comes out. I don't know that dusty baker on the astros will do that. So i do worry that it might get crushed a little bit as they tried to get him to go deeper in games especially with the fact that they are kind of lacking in the rest of Kind of that rotational little bit in the bullpen. So he went. I think in the twenty first round of my tgi draft like you know within an hour to of In signing so you know. I don't know how indicative that is considering ian con saw. That it got signed was like well. I guess i'm taking them here I don't know that. I'm going to end up with other a fair amount. I mean if he drops draft in has been going extremely late that maybe i'll take the gamble but not someone necessarily targeting Speaking of astros did mention that force. Whitley get tj off so obvious or he's gonna get tj So badly He has done for the season. Likely going to miss part of the beginning of next year as well mike. So let's talk about dynasty leagues. Is this time you kind of cut bait on an on four whitley. oh man. that's like a loaded question because in a sense it's like there's leagues deep enough. I'm still holding onto honeywell link. That's just where i'm at. So yeah there's i else there's usually i'll spots and you can hold onto it. Depends on like shower formats. Let's say ten twelve fourteen teen dynasty. I think you could drop him safely. Especially dynasty leagues. Where you keep everybody now if you have limited keepers. He's obviously a drop. So whitley's the talents. Their health isn't this is almost like a honeywell to point out. Feels like at this point. And i just i very least i should have learned from i was thinking i i won't make that mistake twice. Whitley's a guy. I'm probably this cutting and trying to find something better player. Wire jason what are you doing stealing hard past eileen army. It's been a bumpy road. It's been a bumpy road up to this point and now you're gonna have this at. He's talking about going to seek a second opinion. And i said bless you. When you were talking about brent honeyball saint fame. I love that dude three surgeries ago. Just hoping i'm just hoping he gets the pitch in the major leagues. That's where i am with him. I i absolutely loved him a few years ago. In my my ale keeper league. I ended up trading. I haven't read dollar. I traded him before the surgeries. Because i've been burnt by this type of thing in the past And if he does have the surgery than twenty twenty one. Gone twenty twenty. Two's pretty much watch now. We're talking about twenty twenty three and if he comes back was he reliever if i could find a bunch of that stuff so bass. Yup i kind of feel the same way. I've mentioned this view. Times now On the pod. Is that ken goldstein. Who worked for the astros announced back over fan graphs Had mentioned in his chat that he's got the widest range of outcomes probably any pitcher in the minor leagues and that means he could be as good of as a number two starter or never see the majors and now we know he's not gonna see the majors for at least a probably the next eighteen months and i if someone's willing to buy low on force whitley i'm definitely willing to sell Speaking prospects and being out jared colonic He's gonna be out three to six weeks after injuring his knee running to first base He is a great to strain of the duck. A duck derm muscle in his knee. That i can't apparently pronounce and so it all works out right. Everybody was wondering what the mariners were going to do. In terms of holding down a service time they now have an out. This pisses me off. Not just because i've taken him In the top like one seventy five in tgi in few other leagues recently but just because they get off the like. That's i i hate that. They're getting off the curcas I felt like they should really be of drag over the coals if they if they some now now they have every right to because he's injured Very much like when flat guerrero was a rookie in in got injured right in spring training. So i think he's going to be fine And probably at the end of april when we kind of expected them to hold his service. Time down But jason what are your thoughts on jerk Clinic with this injury you how convenient It does suck that if you there's not a rule in play that says hey you've been caught breaking it you have to promote guy. He's got to be up day one. It will be nice if if baseball punish people for index like that But they don't so you know. I hope the playing it gives them honestly. I'm not expecting for him to get like kris bryant treatment where it's just a weekend he's out Going to push back things to a normal schedule but we all used to sit around but okay here comes a memorial day weekend coming out of that s when the prospects are gonna come up. That's what it feels like. He's more of a jewish guy now then and even a late april guy or early. May what this kind of timetable. And the time he'll need it really feels like he's we're not concealing the active roster third of the seats can be gone a quarter to a third and so that's you're taking him early kinda sucks. Obviously but that's that's where i'm viewing It's like going into tonight with a labor. I'm sure he would have been a hotter name But his not you hit especially going into what the uncertainty of us mike. What are you doing with clinic. I'm kind of laughing at the fact that he killed you. Gutted you with the common of won't be up till like Let's silence. Here's the thing i don. I think he's i think he's i think he's up at the end of april as long as he's healthy so he finished the game or at least finished out like the next inning so he clearly About as melvin. Pitch to seven batters. Yeah he but clinic doesn't need like surgery or anything. he just needs steiner. I think he's going to be fine. I think they're going to use this as an excuse to keep him down. Pass that threshold in then. He'll be obsolete. I'm not super worried i would still eat. He drops outside of the top two hundred draft. He's likely going to be on my team. Which means i'm probably have a lot of planet shares rest of the way. I don't know how much he's gonna drop though. Because i do think. I think most people are going to have that mindset. Even i wrote up to In my article. I dropped today that i think he'll be up in may even if it's not the earliest part. I think i'd say ten days. Maybe two weeks at most intimate. I think we see him. It all depends on how he progresses through this who his injury and all that so clerics guy that i'm still in on an ad discount even i'm acting on but the count. He sent his back whereas adp was prior to the news of clinic. Coming up right away so there is a little give and take there. But i'm willing to take a shot given the agnes price drop back down aright Next we're going to talk about is rotor. Soon he's gonna hold a showcase for teams On march twelfth Do we care. Mike no like i i mean i wish i remember the exact quote Jason said but. I'm only a hard pass. Hard pass That's where i'm at. Are you hard as well. jason. I am still. There's still too much risk there. Obviously when the when the astros let him go there was a ten billion dollar player option. That's why he displayed or you know he's gonna be paid they just let them slide right through waivers. I just can't imagine that arm is is even ninety percent In good shape and it's still risk because he never had surgery to fully repair. If i if i'm not the steak ends like he had a slight tear to the ucla job of it didn't go the surgery route and now has to prove that he in fact is fully recovered. Yes i think so. I mean i think the last round of a fifth year outdrawing old or something like that Somewhat interested in this is a guy with a proven closer track record and if he is healthy and he looks good. In that showcase he will land somewhere. I don't know where um and doubt it's going to be a place that just hands on the job right away or anything but yeah i mean last last. Pick your drafted hold of you know. Reserve picking only. Yeah i'm okay without and as that happens. I don't know if you guys sirens but apparently setting police after me. So i think that's more of a Ambulance coming to get out of as lee. The phillies is going to be out for weeks of the grogan strain in an appears that that lease odebrecht herrera's league candidates win the center field. John this is obviously going to work itself out. Someone's going to get that centerfield job but a rumors are harare is kind of the guy who is in the the front runner of that Mike are you interested in audubon rare at all man. I remember the days. I wasn't long ago and he was actually fantasy viable and somebody that we targeted. What in the two hundred even like. I'm try remember when he was and her is a guy that despite my personal feelings against fantasy production could be there. I mean we see them in spring training now again this spring training. Let's that's like this matter for a guy like herrera. Because he's fighting for starting gig we've seen bats. He's had four hits a home run and stolen base. So he's there. He's a multi category project producer. And he's better than kingery. I'm sorry. I mean we all wanna believe in kangaroo. Believe it's there's a chance but he has. He's been given multiple opportunities. Can't seem to come through. Although i am curious because i remember reading a trying to find it but harper was asked about his feelings on harare essentially and her being a star on the team pretty much dancing very favorable of the idea of even like he just didn't seem very happy about the whole situation sounded like someone. If that will actually play any part will will. The players have any say in that like him being the star being the big money guy. Does he have any sway in harare making a team. I mean i'm going really deep in over thinking that one but just something. I'm kind of watching forcing that. But overall looking at production upside guys. I mean he was pretty much undrafted bitching early. Dc's now he's a guy you're going to be able to get really late and obviously has only upside as well so early guy that i'm at the earliest ping on one. I'll watch this. Because if he's playing every day it could just give you some power and speed and that's really valuable. Jason are you interested in harare depending on the context. Sure he's just such a weird dude. Will you look when you look at the body of work again. Onfield for safia outfield scrimp. Onfield he went from a guy that was a positive defender to a guy that was a below average defender like that. He went from a defensive war from almost ten to negative nine in one season And then yet that's cesium sitting for more power. But then we see we see some of his other indicators just backsliding two thousand nineteen was obviously a disaster play last year. So it's like how much I'll take this. You mentioned goldstein's podcast. Reality at cody decorated. Episode cody decker was talking about having a month off and then going to triple a. And villa and no idea what he was doing at the plate for a while. You talk about a guy here who's had one hundred thirty nine plate appearances over two seasons and he's going to step back in and see what he can do against major league pitching. I mean if i was in. I didn't need to see if you went to now labor last i forgot to look But if you know if he did at that point. I would be surprised if he you know. He didn't go into labor last night but if he's not going into labor then why would he go. Why would you look at them in your own. locally and Labor this labor is tonight Herrera did not go last night. See that surprises me attack. You went for two dollars in two zero. A sean so there so that makes sense. Yeah that that's the format i think. He deserves to be part of. Because i think there's a bad staring at bats are valuable in any only format. It'll be interesting i. There's this tool that. I use that this guy. My furlan does the tracking lineups and Yeah i'm gonna. I'm gonna kind of track that over the course of the next week or so and see you know. He played on saturday. According to mike. Curling's google she'd Bad second played played in center field. So i'm an reports are that he is kind of elite guy. they're hitting second in that lineup. That's a pretty darn good spot. Be so i'm gonna be interested if if that is the case Moving right along kazaa. Wanna get to kind of our main topics of day. A danny santana's signs minor league deal in boston. Kind of adds to their outfield in. Maybe a little bit of their kind of flexibility and infield. Do we care mike No hard pass if theme today man hard pass they. You're the nasa word thing so get kika hairiness who can do the same ben. They got marwin gonzalez. Who can do the same thing. And now they're going to add danny santana. Who could you move up a five year holiday once was. Rv knife is always cool to having your house or your pocket but three That's that's a little weird so i don't know if we're he where he cracks the team You look at how they're putting their bench together appointees gotta make it a second catcher. Christian non-royal is out of options but criminal royal compla- three spots on the infield himself. So if you're looking for his addition kind of tells me that christian arroyo was on the outs by the deal. He's probably not in anybody's draughtsman's To that but that's where you kind of look at what they're at. They're bringing him in. Somebody's got to go out. And arroyo seems to be like the logical dude as somebody who's out of options wonder if this has anything to do with Frenchie cordeiro have covid and potentially maybe word that he's not going to be ready to start the season so I mean i think more will be revealed would see how much playing time getting in spring. On if there's a real shahrani. Alva durand noise micro savings but he has options but certain jan durant looks really goodness spring. Yeah i don't think chip's making this team all right Then let's see the next the next thing. We've got his friend. Laura's jose ramirez their way from the team for violating the The covid protocols I don't know that this has much of an impact in terms of their fantasy value but Just shame shame shame. This is the second time now. In two years at friend mill has had to be sent home because he violated covid restrictions. Ramirez is a star in just should know better. I mean either. You guys have anything does not even starting to capture the team. It's it's i mean it's just disappointing. Like whether or not you think there should be covid restrictions like there are for your profession and for this sport so like come on like don i mean. Hopefully they learned their lesson though clearly has not from last year and this doesn't happen in season but it just seems like cleveland has a bunch of knuckleheads can say much. I mean it's just it's i rank is again. I feel like they're taking a serious year. Like as a whole. I feel like there's not much reporting on it and i understand. It's kind of you know everything's getting better. Which is good but still like. This isn't gonna help. And covert is still thing we mentioned. We just got done mentioning. How french cordeiro reported camp yet. So it's still very much an issue and these guys should know better. Especially i can't. I'm going to harp on it. A little bit usually harbaugh things. But ray is just really like. Come on dude really. I can't i just can't deal with especially has the It was out the they got busted for go getting getting a haircut and then eating inside the restaurant it's come on your arizona. How beautiful is the weather right now. May i know it's allergy season that so maybe that's an issue but it is absolutely beautiful on phoenix. Like three hundred and sixty days a year And so yeah eat outside. Plenty of room of other people all right moving right along the giant sign. Jose alvarez. I didn't think this was really worth mentioning. But jason does so. Jason talked about why you think it's worth mentioning. I do think it's worth mentioning. And i think it's worth mentioning because you look at the structure of their bullpen on how the bullpen is structured with him coming even before he joined the The bullpen and you look at how lefty leaning it is with Darling garcia sam. Selman and now jose alvarez joining jake mcgee most teams don't carry four lefty relievers less. They have plans on doing something with one of those lefty relievers Instead we don't have louise baseball anymore to me that kind of hints at cape kappler to lead on jake mcgee to be his primary closer. This year You know we can all jokes about the capital us. Anybody in anybody. And i'm all for that but we look back just tonight. We're looking back before we started recording this morning and get captured dave hector nearest a lot of leash in two thousand nineteen And even before that it was certainly dominguez darris. Weddings stands in the following year. Narrow twenty the same so that club and so he has shown a proclivity for using primary guy when he has a primary guy. And you look at that. Bullpen is as structure and last year it was messy but they went out and got mcgee. They went out and signed alvarez who was more reliable relievers when he was filled at when. I went out in kappler alvarez. We're in philly together and so they went and supplemented This bullpen out Still would like to see them. Put aaron sanchez in the bullpen. Instead of the rotation But to me. I'm i'll take him in fact i took him in the twenty first round of tgif. Be i as my third reliever wrote about an article for a wire earlier this winter. Because i really want him to come back to tampa bay for their bullpen. But he got a two year deal from the giants and i think it was more than just. Hey come in here and work the seventh inning as you did with the rockies at were what he did with the dodgers because that bullpen was so deep mcgee wasn't needed to do anything else there but he's got a he's got a clear path to ending decisions With the giants. And i think this edition of another lefty to the bullpen speaks to where they're leaning. Alright mike Because i don't trust get counselor uncomfortable. I just don't like i'm just. I'm just not going to invest in the giants bullpen. Except for maybe like a. I mean he is going super he just went in the twenty first round. Then of twenty six rout of my teaching fbi draft so. I guess it's worth the gamble. There is you're like rpg three or four depending on if you're playing at twelve or fifteen wing I don't care that much. Mike do you care. I'm just. i'm so beat up with these. Relief pitchers the draft season. I mean it's it's so hard to tell. I'm probably going to end up with more. Jake mcgee i want to because i do like to try to leave the draft with three to four depend depend on format like guys a format relatively with three league relief pitchers for sure. And he's the guy. Jason grabbing with the perfect point like third relief pitcher as a guy who can get us the Here and there or possibly be everyday guy you never know. Kappler is off his rocker. Maybe he decided you know what. I'm going to be traditional this year because it's kappler we don't know yet and i'm going to bed. You know what. I'm gonna take my sean mcghee because of the price and i'm all about chasing saves late because i if i don't get them early will i. I like to do is get one early and in grad wrestling one is closer but this so that's kind of millions of autumn. My rosters 'cause you're my third guy. I'm like just see what happens. Yeah i'm just. I i don't know. I mean the mystic knight mystic at all i just did my my relieve rains last night Posted first thing tomorrow morning For those of you on twitter. Asking where the rat. In that i did. Actually they'll be posted tuesday morning because tomorrow morning i'm going to do the eighty market report for relievers and this is what i've noticed because there's been a lot of talking cluding by people like myself about just how disaster you know how much of a disaster. The kind of closer pool is After doing that market report article and updating my ranks for publishing I don't think it's as big of a disaster as maybe other people do. And i think it largely has been a narrative from earlier drafts season when a bunch of these guys weren't signed but it doesn't feel that much different than it does every year. There's some lockton guys. there's some not locked in. Is there some committees All of those guys are gonna lose their job at some point so like i wouldn't be changing up my approach to closers From previous years. If you've been in the don't for contingent there are guys. You can get Later on or spec plays But if you're like me you tend to like to leave a draft with at least one established closures. I think there's plenty of those guys actually I think the the free agent market is now finally settled and we kind of know the guys are that are locked in who aren't and then there's the usual question mark so i'm not quite as worried i think is maybe other people are and i do think it potentially comes from this kind of Early draft season narrative that is no longer true at this point so that's That's gonna wrap up all the news and notes. We're going to move on. And i wanted to kind of move our mail. That question up in front of our arising. Adp guys. because i don't have any of those guys will actually get to this point So to answer the question we got for the mail bag and kind of than a secondary question In zastava discord again all the mail back are coming from the discord now. citgo sign up over patriots With looking like no d. h. In the national league. Do you worry about matt carpenter taking playing time from any cardinals. Infielders namely tom edman. So i'll throw this one to you. I might yeah. I hate to say this but i am concerned because they really seem to. Wanna get him in the lineup. He's hit top to every game except for today actually is hitting fifth. I think but the the point is is. He's playing so much now. Maybe they wanna do they have in them. Maybe they wanna see what carpenter still offer. But they're planet not only the age they're giving them roofs at second upset third. They are really interested in seeing they have left and carpenter and they want and they seem to want about them at top of the order so no d. age. I'm not sure if it hurts edmund. Or if it's just more or less they're going to plug and play. Obviously i mean edmund is guide kanter right. I know i'll carpenter playing in the outfield. I i it's it's going to be edmund against days off especially struggles early on jason. What are your thoughts on. This is carpenter gonna screw overtime. He hadn't been owners. I think he especially in the spot of the lineup. Because that's one thing. Carpenters has. The ability to do is strong on strong. Ob p history. In recent years it's been down somewhat but previous previous to that. He knows how to draw walks and whatnot. So if you're gonna play and you gotta play high in the lineup. It's like more of the things. I'm always staring at us. Were especially lineup lies at bay boob ed than if he doesn't hit first and he hits eighth. Then what do you do with the. How do you work in betas. Anybody anybody else play centerfield for them. I don't see other option on the roster to play center field goal publican. I was gonna say. I agree with mike. That carpenters should not be playing the outfield. But it's like you look at the profiles o.'neil invader i mean they're toolboxes but the range of outcomes on those guys could be anywhere if they can ever put it all together as wow but at the same point. It's like the the the range of outcomes could be on the bench to If o.'neil start making better contact same thing with bater but that's kind of were that that situation falls. It's a weird mix but the other thing is i. Don't we just keep trying to stay your camp on this. I know have not had much movement on the conversation. But you might correct me if i'm wrong. We have still yet to have a pitcher take on at bat and spring training. Not that i've seen. I really hope to it retraining. Do i've read an article yesterday. Just infuriated me. It was talking about the interview. Joe girardi and like he goes. I haven't really told the guys go up there and take three strikes and sit down. I'm like oh my god you're gonna. How's that even in the realm of possibility does it. That's that's how it's going to be. Just don't let the guy go up there but i know we're talking about two plate appearances in a game for the most part but still it's like you're really going to go up there and just telling guy okay. Just take it. If it's not a sack situation just go up there and take three strikes. Sit out But that's it's literally the knights place hitter go up. There crouch really coastal plate The fact that these pictures aren't even don't even do anything not even go into a game right now. It's all been cage. Work tells me that they're holding out. Hope and i really wanna hold out hope but right now i'm just using it. I'm i'm drafting up or not in tgif. Be i. when i've gotten down the okay. I want to take a picture. I'm looking for sale as swung some of my choices. Historically last year it was great because it was easier But this year. It's i'm leaning towards the nfl guy. When i. i have to pitchers close. Because i have to play with rules that i haven't hand right now right now telling me that al guys are gonna get the base the pitcher twice And so that's gonna be to easier to easier At bats for them in a line of versus derail contemporary on all talk about the. Da is jewish in here in a second. But i'll get back to edmund row. Quick I don't think this is gonna hurt. Edmund is much as it's going to hurt either o'neill or harrison baiter and so those of you who are on the yearly tyler o.'neil hype train right now thinking. He's got a fulltime job in left field. Edmonds going to be playing up her when carpenters because Like mike mentioned iran in goldschmidt are not sitting for matt governor. That just knock it happen unless it's just a regularly scheduled day off type thing but When carpenters in the line of its second edmund will shift out to left field in either batur or o.'neil will set up I think it'll work itself out one way or another and been. I don't know that if the cardinals actually do you wanna try to somewhat compete this year that they wanna be running carpenter out there especially at the top of the lineup Mean his walk is still great but the reason is. Ob is down. Like jason mentioned is because his average is absolutely atrocious when eighty six in twenty twenty two twenty six in twenty nineteen and those were fairly well deserved so I don't think it hurts edmund. Quite as much I do think edmund could run into some issues if they bring up their Their top prospect nolan. nolan gorman. at some point a apparently he is ready. Been working at second base. So i think then edmund turns into kind of a super utility guy plays mostly in left field that just prices from Labor last night edmund went nineteen a baiter went fifteen odia what nine carpenter with two yup signed not showing gorman as gummer was take him in the reserves he should have been saved the reserves It's a I don't know this is somebody who fab later. I get it especially a lotta guys. Taking their chances on pitching the research is there's a lot of yellow and the labor gore. See gorman's guy. I've been trying to grab the forty eight forty nine or fiftieth round in drafting holds. But i totally understand in your regular regularly not not wanting to take a shot on him. Because i don't know what he's up he's in the. I don't know that he's necessarily guy who's up at the end of april. He's probably more like him in summer. Camp guy so all right Any other situations were really worried about with the playoffs with the lack of d. h. I do believe that it is still an option. Like i mentioned last episode with paul I'm definitely more in the Twenty percent chance that it happens opposed to feeling like is greater than fifty percent chance. That happens i'm I'm not closing the door on it for sure. But i think at this point. We now have to start kind of planning for it if you hadn't been already And i mean like for instance. I'm kind of coming up on the clock. And i make gotta make a decision between matthew boyd. The al pitcher horse and hilliard. One of the guys who may be part of this kind of roster crunchy issues without t h in the national league. So mike what are what are the situations that you're worried about in the nationally. I love it. You said he'll you're the first all my list that i made here has. The perk following. Lineups is trying to get an idea. These trans in hilliard's seems like the odd man out. Not hamson hilliard was initially thought to be. Maybe starting center fielder but if you look at every line of so far it's been hamson essentially playing center field. I think one game where he played second so and he'll you got. His websites aren't field. But the more. The more concerned about hilliard in particular is that when blackman was in the lineup. He's one who shifted to the bench not have remained in southfield today. Blackman's and lineup again in hilliard shifted the left field you see. The constant is hamson. Playing centerfield not hilliard hilliard. Likely the odd man out without the d. h. Right now that's like one of the first big ones. There's a whole. I have a whole bunch Run through but i'll start with that one. Other people talk jason. What are the situations you're worried about. Yeah that's the big one because you look at the possibilities of what hillier could do getting back to the toolbox comment that i made earlier. He's got plenty of them but he's also got he's got a got his flaws and that's where it becomes that were that's where it can come into play. It's like to learn only good if you can actually get on the field to use them We saw some talk more. Talk about In in your backyard and san francisco about longoria having a foot problem and entering a platoon situation is going to have his issues alad. Bring that up. If you're know we we have to talk to our l. folks amount name sharp udom roster longoria mixed league format any more than just a regular factor. The early play. We don't have that. Like what do you do in those games. We have where you're the braves. You really gonna put zona back in left field. How how is that roster crunch going to look like. They wanted valued their defense. But i wanna see how these teams are going to handle. There's there's not that many fulltime d. h. is in the national league last year. Most of most teachers used as a rotating day off but for somebody in particularly like osuna in a mentioned him because he's a i took him into third round of took them in the third round of td fbi. So i've i've taken him highs so he's a high profile dude And if yeah took him into third round so if he's going to have to sit was at nine games He's gonna be pinch hitter for nine games. That's that's a bit of hint to a tiebreaker. To say okay. I've got a burst crews Or if you're in all backing on jd martinez was to al guys Versus the nfl guy at ended least cruises never gonna play the field either. Martinez could in theory Played field a little bit. But we've seen what a zoo can be. Yikes so that's really that's really subscriber is. Is these guys these big bats. If they're going to have to sit for the most part for nine games. Than maybe. I'll take a chance on the guy that plays in the forgot to guys similar simone aligned. I'm gonna look for the guy that's not a total disaster in the field aren't mike. Why don't you just give me your whole list if you miss any all from other well. Here's this a few. That i came up with looking at the nfl. Just playing time concerns. i'm going to go to depth. The mets has a whole. That's like the obvious low hanging fruit one dom hasn't yet has yet to do anything but d. h. That team that there's just so many questions when it comes to the mets in terms of late late inning replacement all that stuff i it bats. They're reds as a whole have like four players for two spots. I know they've come out and primer said since l. Should be the starring stanfield. But they still have aquino akiyama winker and since two spots without the the age there that can cause issues in terms of platoons and just in general like just a headache. Marlins have derrick cooper who. I love what right now. It's like him or aguilar. I don't see a place for both of them. I don't see cooper playing outfield. Maybe off chance he can get some reps out there. But i just think it's one or the other more than likely almost as brewers. That's that's another one. That's obvious you have J. j. in lorenzo cain with even cain hasn't played yet there might be some lingering issues there we don't know about. Jj should play so there's again another crunches to in general a huge loser out in la and the the padres again other team just literally talent. You have kim jae colonel worth and profile. All kind of like fighting for spots pro far has been relegated to the fourth outfield type. If you look early on he's only he's only been starting in the outfield giving other guys rests which will probably end up with three games week. Just spelling myers famine whatnot out there. Kim and worth should play. I'd say probably three or four games each every week. Maybe can gain the preference. Those guys been bouncing around. The infield playing think play persons second kim's playing third and shortstop second as well. So they're really trying to see what they have out of kevin krahn worth and they're just gonna plug and play but you know they have six and then two spots for the last. Three centuries seems the padres do so. That's kind of big to watch just a lot of. It's it's a good problem to have. I guess with kobe to don't remind me about the garcia that was tough. Thomas follow got everything might lost. A bunch of weight got into shape At at the two thousand sixteen through two thousand nineteen batted ball data against the backdrop of what was last year and like. Oh yeah we see what he's capable of. The play centerfield last year out of shape was taking its toll on him at the plate as he went out and busted his butt to get in shape this year. And then there is and it doesn't look like you have some depth. Obviously if if something happens with cain Or something as as the older guy on the roster injury why so they have some depth. It's the last thing you wanna hear me. I had not taken garcia yet but believe me. He was my game plan. The he's still out there now because everybody has and you should because they're still full-time starters out there. That are sitting there but man. He really took a big hit. Just just there are right then and there on that and for me. That was the one where i thought there was. There is more upside with him. Given the switch given the situation and everything but without the. Da is really tough to take him in a fifteen team mixed league in the active phase of your draft. Yeah gosh are say. And the thing is though there showing confidence in him in terms of in terms of bad. Because he's pretty much married to the top of the lineup A top four hitter in any lineup. He started in and he's gotten regular playing time. So it's really really aggravating that he's probably beginning squeezed when in actuality. They seem really confident in his bat. So it's like. I'm hoping that they find a way to get them in there more often than not but i don't see the path without the hr injury. Yeah i think a lot of these situations will work itself out one way or another. Because of injuries. Injuries happen covid. It's going to happen And so i'm not like i'm not like totally dropping guys off my board but indefinitely evaluating Garcia just went in my league while we've been recording so in the twenty first round so That's that's an interesting kind of spot for him. I'm not like knock closing my. You know the door on the da in terms of believing it can get on his. We saw out quickly. The expand playoffs got pushed weekend right and it was done the night before those muscle Yeah it's i'm not. I'm not closing door on that one. So all right. Let's let's kind of move through some of these Starting pitchers rising eighty p I don't think we'll get through all of them In solid kind of pick and choose as go. But i do wanna start zach. Police act. Because i've seen him go as early as the third around in a fifteen team league in this league is the ninth around fifteen team-leading Over the course last two weeks. So he's extremely polarizing. I'll start with you mike. What are your thoughts on zach. Police ugh do i. All things are there. We saw them changes pitch mix. It was more effective. He played really bad opponents. Though at the shortened season teams didn't really have that they normally would shape etc etc. He's priced out for me. I don't i think he is going to be talented talented. I think he's going to have a good year. But i'm not sure he's going to have a good enough to justify this adp. I'm not as high as others. Are autumn. I liked what i saw. But what we saw was a hot run in any other season. And that's what we call the toy twenty season so please exit guy that i'm cautiously optimistic. But i am very apprehensive when it comes to buying it. Jason thoughts on police. I agree with all that. And he was the he was. S p twenty four td fbi. He went just after jim. You just in front of jose boura various. That's that's where he's sitting. And i look at it with the review and only because toronto going to be playing on those very friendly offensive parks this year. I could make the case there. But i'd rather have various over both of them Then hendrix would just epa that i'd rather have hendrix max freed went after hendrix. That's where so. I'm looking at the guys that went behind him saying yeah. I want all three of those guys before. I'm gonna a touch police soccer view. I really want to see how these the central division pitchers are gonna handle themselves when they have to face the other divisions this year because they had been a pretty cozy situation last year. Yeah i mean he said kind of in the introduction of police act i mean. He's super polarizing right now so we go from. The third of the knights route is crazy. Yeah he's he went in the seventh round of mike. Tgi fbi trapped as a twenty seventh starting pitcher off the board And that's kind of where. I would feel comfortable taking him if he'd made it back to me In the seventh round. I would have been inches because i think one of the things that i heard this mentioned on the pull it or podcasts. I want to give every. I wanna give a shout out to rob. Who's just doing a really fantastic job. He didn't episode with matt modibo. Diga and Oh god yeah mark. Sure if if you plan out of bc at all you need to listen to that episode because it just to the best players in the game right now Kind of drop in knowledge and mark mentioned on that podcast. One of the things that people are thinking about is like in the innings limits for starting pitchers in terms of actually making your innings requirements. There are going to be teams that in the last month of the season or forced to stream because they haven't gone the volume unique and one of the police at can do that. We know we can do that. He will be able to do this year whether or not. He's good or not is volume dude. Went deep into almost every game me last year And so for that reason he becomes somewhat more interesting to me. Because i feel like a pair him like with a with a kind of an ace and he's my number two guy. I feel like of already gotten a lot of volume of opinion with coal or bieber or gras Or you know other shire's nola guys who i can feel pretty comfortable about his his volume. The question becomes. How much do you want that volume. You know if he really does. Struggle with the home runs again Like jason mentioned. He's you know not going to be just going up against the alemanno central this year So the the competition level will go up. There are some concerns they are. But i'm willing to take the gamble when he starts falling kind of seventh eighth ninth round in a in a fifteen team legs so if that is where he ends up in in drafts in the shop. But i'm not going to be one of these people are taking them in the third route Or four probably not even the fifth so on look smartest sheet Rain men's fifty three in his max's ninety seven so like even there he's got he's got a span of where things go in volume volumes blessing and a curse volume you and strikeouts for sure But if it's bad volume that's that's it's gonna hit your ratios at a bigger volume two and that point tonight ahah labor. We have a nine hundred fifty inning limit. I think nfc's thousand But they they knocked down the nine fifty for labor battalion. We don't have one so you can exploit you can decide to zacks I'm very curious once we do tout a couple of weeks how the how the al and the nl only leagues differ and that regard. Because you know here we can't just say i'm gonna take two starters or you could but then you look at the bench one of the things. I noticed that looking ad I've mentioned earlier but sixty four percent of the reserve picks and And i'll labor last night pitchers so some teams are deciding okay. I'm that a goal with like. Two three starters relievers and that. I'm just gonna stream in july on streaming to to get my hands like i'm looking at not that derek cardi construct as raft in this way. But he was the one team that used all six of us reserve picks on pitching. So he's looking at it like he. Grab logan weber. Pick velazquez wade miley. Pierce johnson chase anderson and brett anderson. He just gonna stream match around that because like his his a active roster got alex miles. Nicholas you know. He's got a leisure hernandez he's got a lottery ticket to nelson momentum that he's got to worry about so and somebody else who's five and somebody else has got four. Somebody else's got four A few teams have four. So i can see teams looking at that to get to the limit may dictate what people have to do. And nfc format to where you typically like to say okay. I'm gonna platoon situation. I'm going to grab something like that. Or i've got this closer and i want to get as backup but you may have to use like four to five fifteen spots the pitching. If you're not one of those guys very confident in your ability to work waiver wire and identify the matchups all right. Let's let's move onto the next guy that strom us grow continues to move up on in the eighty p. I grabbed him in my tgi draft. I believe her out pink or a round seven on. I'm just double checking as i talk. Oh sorry round a. I grabbed him So pick one thirteen. I i wanna believe like i do. I want to believe and he definitely looked good in his first spring. Start but i mean i do. I've said this a few times already over draft season. I do feel like. It's a little bit of charlie brown trying to kick the football when moss grove at this point so jason. What are your thoughts on muss drove. Is this finally put together. This is finally year. He puts it together. This is it. It finally happens. And i'll see her. We joked about it. We've talked about it a couple of times in the offseason joel Kurt russell starting escape from new york. Joe must grow escape from pittsburgh and so it should work at. It should workout while forum. He's has the opportunity of nice. Run support You there may be some issues the ratios but the wind should be there for him in that capacity to strike. Outs should be there for him. He's gonna have some tough match-up when he plays the dodgers pitcher course field. You just have to manage them appropriately. He's not a set it. Forget it pitcher for me. That's one thing in pittsburgh that you could do with him is just set it and forget it. Hope for the best so you have to manage him properly all right. Mike is this. Your musco put together again. Is that like an appropriate answer right. Yeah when it comes the microbe. It's like you mentioned breaking football. It's great i also picture the geico commercial. Where he's the fishermen with the dollar bill in the end almost got it like. That's that's why it's like we're chasing that dollar bill and we're just trying to get it but i mean we have the drafting is almost like s p three range for your team. So you're saying you'll see him as the senate forget it pitcher by you're paying for that as your three roughly so it was my sp to see and there you go now you have to play. I'm sorry but you know another another vibe. I'm getting is. Unfortunately i'm feeling very twenty matt boyd ish right now. Don't say that. But t tell me. It's not the same idea that has a stuff just put together. He was going to do it last year and didn't and and now he's actually. I'll be looking better than they did last year. And he's not getting at least had the excuse that he had the hamstring in a foot. Injury must grow thirteen out labor last night in mitee. Fbi the fourth team four used him as ford starter took him in the fourth. Pick of the seventh round after casteel slavery and paddock So obviously a padres. Fan big believer there But yeah that's where. I think it's a great comp with with boy because we were all in love with matt boyd. Last year most of us were But like even his his rages kind of tight though. A minimum ninety. Four max of one forty one across the fbi address so it's not terrible a compare me that's a that's a on paper it seems like a more narrow range then We're just talking about earlier. He's got a narrow range that ian anderson and even zach. He's more narrow but In anderson the guy that people really love this year has got a wide range of outcomes in minimum maximum picks. Tgif the adenjer must growth so far. Yeah and you mentioned injury. Risk with you mentioned injury with With what's face boyd. It's not like must've known to stay healthy. I mean he has his fair share of alston's as well. So i wanna buy and plus you know. He's looking sharp in all the one and a half innings. We saw him pitch but he was talking. Really really talking up austin knowle's a catcher. Maybe that can help. Make them better this year as well having a better catcher under usually an underutilized. Like a part of your you know Looking at pictures and stuff so there was reason for upside and the stuff is there. But will he put together they. The padres have also mentioned the possibility of a six station. Which could limit is effectiveness especially have to set pitching for the week one star guy and possibly so. There's a lot of question marks. i'm not all that settlement out autumn. Let's play. I'm like i'm i'm. I'm a glutton for punishment. Just give me some more. But i don't like them as must be to. I'm sorry yeah that's an. That's a six man rotation as long as donelson limit can hold up so Yeah that's not a six. So i'm i'm not extremely worried about this edition part however as a person who's been clean and sober for almost sixteen years That was the first time. I've thought about drinking in a long time. Feeling not so good about that now. But i wanna move on to finish our last guy A then we're going to have to wrap it. Up is a fortunately and unfortunately i'm going to be doing the first pitch florida Conference here in about an hour selling to kind of make sure. My kids destroyed the house and then run back to the office sub Last guy we're gonna talk about your chidi He's rising up with the framer injury Even with the odor busy signing he's locked into rotation role. The question is mike. Are you kind buying this new eighty. Beat i guess. I'm not really a huge key guy. I think there's a lot of no tax on this one. No one tweet one tweet. From e-e-e-e-no keyed is getting boosted. Updraft boards thank you know but Yeah i'm not. I just i don't know i don't really know how i should feel about him. Jaising i'm truly torn. I'm not as high as maybe i should be. I think it's between the biggest between know the tweet tax at recency bias. Because there can you look good in the postseason to And so our recent memory is like oh hey that that gets interesting. But that's where. I'm not as high on the others to because even last year won't be so i just wants to strike out enough dudes ads. We have the range of outcomes is minimum. Pick one fifty five max to thirty eight so people have been really all over the place on him at these drafts. It started last week and he. He's got that kind of range to them. I think there's a safer options Especially guys going around. Zach eflin mike. Saroka david price Rogers there's mackenzie hood on feel safe with at all saroka. While talking about like super-safe smokers already has his injuries. He's gonna miss some time early out of the gate But that's all i'm looking at there. I'm just trying to go through names. That are going around him You know and that's kind of it. And then you get down to andrew keeney as kind of the next guy. So there are depends. Are you disparaging injury especially when you do. You really. don't want to listen to the latest pitiless podcast. then yet it depends roster. Construction ended up. Point what you're what you're comfortable putting on your roster because there are some some volume guys and he should be a volume guy if the anaheim gets out of the six man. Rotation mindset chris. Bassett's back there. So i mean there are. There are some ways to get some volume guys that have a safer floor. The water keedy has. But i need guys miss more bats but the reasons he buys to be pretty strong in some places when it comes their keady. I just. I'm looking at the adp. Now since her very i in all championship league so a lot of leagues. I'm just really in on soleil really on stroman. And they're kind of sandwich like he's accused between them so that's probably what it is. I just don't end up with any or key. 'cause i'm getting a ton of somali stroman. Yeah i'm i'm probably not gonna take him where he's going guys. That are going around the same spot him. Injuring any gyms jon. Marcus stroman nathanael ryan yarbrough on. I'm really starting to try to get more cheers of a guy. The yeah exactly you know i. I can't i. I mean i might end up with your key. Share here there when he drops a draft. I mean he's raised seventeen picks over the last month or so In be champions leagues. And that's kind of where why he made this list but at the same time like he's literally coming in with your illiterate has seen. Adp at the beginning draft season so his draft stock dipped just went right back to where it is so. I don't think it's necessarily is big of a change. Maybe as i originally thought all right. That's gonna wrap this up for this episode. Mike thanks for joining us. I appreciate it man again. I really am thankful for the opportunity and Can't i just can't thank you enough. It's really just awesome reminder of social media and then plug everything you do oh man the best part right you can find me on twitter at mike underscore curling again spring training. All things from trainline of that's really my main focus right now other than that. I'll write something else in there but other than that. He's just from train right now. Focused all right. Jason work grecian on. What are you working on so working on of. I'll have the happy late draft tonight so that recap will be up on. My road wired columnist week once Probably wednesday to give that up there and then next week at no drafts. thank god. I think i'm going to do taxes next week. But that's like like my last raffray weekend. I have my nfl. Home league draft in the twenty. First i have our. Al tout on the twentieth so heavy draft season next weekend somehow felt like nothing's happening and thank goodness i do have. There are some a couple of spots left in the in the beat jason rona wire online championship. Nfl four spots left. So if somebody wants to jump in there and take a swing at me figure Maybe literally if you win. Other if that motivates people are closed line than a closet upland yeah There are some spots. Open air if you want to do that. Nestle this tuesday nights at eight o'clock if you can do that. Zola than yeah rich meltzer just mason. Fws be doing a writing daily own fan on vandross right now so Adp market reports and ranks are pretty much the things that i'm doing here for the next two weeks and then we'll start up the right up right before the start of the season and then yeah Tgi podcast going strong with my wife. Danielle have thoroughly just trounced her in the middle rounds of this draft. So i no longer worried about it. That's actually true but Yeah and then Yeah be just amazingly. I'll put the link to both jason's and minds on my championship. Beat leaks Mine is. I believe a march twenty eighth at four. pm eastern saw. If you want to come. Hang out me on sunday. I'll be live streaming that old drafts you can actually hear me live clubhouse not in cloud nine thousand but i'll be i'll be livestreamed pretty much all my draft stress away so Mixed tout's coming up. Both my main event drafts coming up in the frenzy benefits Qualifier league is tomorrow night. I'll be live streaming all of those so if you follow me on. Twitter youtube Facebook and twitter. Any of those places you can catch all those livestreams so i can hear my process And sometimes other people's processes while we're going through strums that will wrap up for jason mike myself. Thanks for listening a fantastic as well.
Effectively Wild Episode 1665: Season Preview Series: Blue Jays and Giants
"And welcome to episode sixteen sixty five of effectively wild fag baseball podcast brought to you by her patriotic supporters. I'm a rally a fan grasp. I enjoyed as always by ben lindberg of the wringer. Then houria doing pretty well. How are you doing okay. Have you been watching spring training baseball band. Little bit here and there pay so we have spent an inordinate amount of time in the last couple of episodes. Talking about the tom jerry. Business our like when there's baseball stuff that is wrong. They should ask us for help. The general way out there in the world and we will help them. But i am here to say that. I have a tiny bit of a bone to pick and it might be with. Mlb about its own products. Oh that's a first for us. Yeah we've never. We've never criticized the game of baseball before but do you get these like. Mlb flashback commercials. Between thanks yeah okay. so you know. There's there's like what's supposed to be like a wicked guitar riff. And then there's an exploding baseball and an exploding home plate. And i guess that's supposed to like denote action or excitement or the mlb hates baseball. I don't know what it's supposed to me. Have you noticed that the baseball and home play are made out of the same material in this explosion. That's a good point. I mean who knows what the baseball is made of these days but the plate is made of no they are supposed they are supposed to be wildly different substances. And so i don't know if they thought it would be like upsetting to have the actual Stuff and nonsense in the middle of the baseball lake exploding outward but it is not like a solid piece of plastic which is what they make it look like and so i thought i had exhausted all of the things that i could find. Urinating about those interstitial. But i found a new thing. Yeah ever since we had that email show conversation about sentient baseball's and what would happen if it were suddenly discovered that the baseball's were self-aware. I've been less comfortable watching baseball's explode so that's somewhat painful but yes. I long had complaints about like mlb tv between inning things like especially when they do flashbacks to highlights which is great. I like seeing old highlights but you see ones over and over and over again. And there's so many great baseball plays out there and there on that great interface on the mlb site now the mlb film room without searchable highlights and they're all tagged in. It's wonderful but on tv you tend to see the same like three highlights over and over and over again. And it's like explore the space open up the vault so many of the highlights that you have in reserved their because if you are a frequent baseball watcher then whatever they show if it's a repeated thing you will see so many times by the end of the season that you can't stand it anymore so mixing sobriety for those of us who are watching all the time. It is interesting to me that they. I think there must have been a meeting or at least an email sent about Their their level of comfort was showing astros. Highlights has at the beginning of last year. There were not. They did not show astro. It was like they're like nobody wants to have this conversation right now and now that complete game no hitter from four pitchers against the mariners. I've seen that. Ad comey god damn times and so. I think they must be out of the doghouse at least from a highlight perspective. But we are putting the whole enterprise back in dark house because yes show new clips and show show more teams and show weirder stuff and get a new song. Dan nana and you're like that was terrible. And i'm here to tell you that that's exactly said generic rift. They're like can't we can't make it too much like inception but we wanted to be in that in genre. We want people to to hear foghorns. Well are complaints. There have been a lot of entertaining sights and sounds the spring training. I know i said recently that. I get impatient when spring training starts. I want fast forward to opening day. But there's a lot of oddness that happens in between that is worthwhile and some fun stuff that you wouldn't normally see you like each row. And mike cameron taking it. Batson playing the field in a mariners. Simulated game that was wonderful or orioles pitcher. Evan phillips facing pirates hitter philip evans also entertaining or the yati molina. Jose serey challenge play. Siri had the audacity to taunt molina for failing to back pick him and then challenged melina essentially to throw him out or molina challenged him to try to steal on him and he was cut down and yachties are stolen. Base success rate are not what they used to be in his prime but he can still throw and jose. Siri was not up to that task and who is jose. Siri to challenge yet here. Lena soaks as david better. The big leagues yet. So molina sort of cut him down to size put him back in his place and that was fun because you could see that he cared. Which is you know that kind of gives you a window into the competitive personality. Because molina he's going to be a hall of famer it's an exhibition game. This is jose siri is far from a household name. And yet molina was motivated to assert his dominance to show that the old man still had it. And i guess you could say that he was provoked even more by the fact that it was not a prominent player. But also it's like you know this is like beneath the notice of yet your molina. Except that he wasn't that's the way that a lot of athletes are wired if you challenge them no matter how insignificant compared to their career. They want to put you in place and he did. Yeah i i have a feeling that if you out of your molina watched Michael jordan doc. That the and i took that personally really resonated with him. He's like finally someone gets it right. Yeah syria sort of the matombo finger wag first base which was not wise anyway. There's been some fun stuff like that. And also this practice of rolling innings which is just for the spring so what if the pitcher throws twenty pitches in a frame then. The team can elect to not finish the day. Just walk up the field half inning over which is weird because then you get situations like the reds in diamondbacks had a few days ago where they just didn't finish the bottom of the ninth. I think and it was a weird situation because think the game was originally supposed to be eight innings and then eight and a half and then it was supposed to be nine but there was some confusion about that and then there is a a rally in the bottom of the ninth so i think the the diamond backs were up against the reds five to three or something in the bases are loaded and there was one out and then the gay just ended. It's like well. We're taking advantage of this rule and a rally over inning over game over and it's odd that i'd almost surprised. There's no unwritten rule about that. I think there was a case like in another game. Someone mentioned her facebook group. I think it was a brewers game and they were up big at the end of the game they still insisted on playing it out just kind of as a courtesy or maybe just to get a pitcher some work but it's a weird situation. I mean it's spring training and it's been trading post pandemic season and so anything goes really but that just sort of reminds you yet. We're watching exhibition baseball at an odd time in the sport and in the world. Well it's the thing that happens on the backfield's all the time because the young no it especially in an environment where you're prioritizing developments. You definitely don't want to injure a guy just to sort of observe the normal rules of baseball because that stuff doesn't matter and so i wonder would. It feels like for for some of the non roster invitees who are coming up prospects. Obviously you don't have the the sort of normal number of minor leaguers that you would have on the complex given how they spaced out spring training to try to minimize the risk of an outbreak. But you do have prospects who are non roster invitees and i'm sure for some of them look i thought it would be so different appear but i don't still just rolling so it's the same. Yeah so. I wonder what it's like for those guys to be like. I thought that this would feel more different than it. Yeah i want to know the the unwritten rules of rolling innings. Hopefully there aren't any. I mean there shouldn't be it's exhibition. It's everyone's trying to work themselves back into shape at an unusual time so hopefully no one takes umbrage at this but it is a strange sight so we are doing season previews today. Two teams as usual. We'll be talking to kaitlin. The graph of the athletic about the toronto blue jays and then we will be joined by brisby. Also of the athletic to talk about the giants. So just a but up to things that we've been entered about before we get to our guests. The first is that jared kelanic is hurt. Now i guess so. Maybe this sort of ends. The service time is going to be on the opening day roster debate. I don't know if kelanic is acquiescing to that. Because he seems to think he will be back post-haste but he has an injury that takes a few weeks to recover from usually. And so this would give the mariners illegitimate excuse or cover at least not to have him on the opening day roster and not to have too many people be mad at them and then if they bump him back to mid april which is when they would need to promote him in order to have him under team control for one additional year. They will have a valid excuse for that. And it sort of reminds me of the vlad situation apple years ago where the whole conversation in spring training was. Will vlad be on the opening day roster and if he's not how will they justify it and then he had that injury and it became a non-issue suddenly so i'm sure the mariners are not happy that jared kalmyk hurt himself but it definitely takes some of the pressure off of them. They no longer have to think of a not so believable. Excuse if they are to start the season without him one of the unfortunate things about this whole scenario. Which is that you just you want. Everyone's incentives to be aligned in the same direction and toward you know a good player being productive at the major league level. And i think one of the things that makes Sort of whatever. Lack of trust might exist between cal. Nick and and the mariners right now. Is that you the possibility. And i don't know that this is true and i'm sure you know. He has irritated as he is with both the injury and the the events of the last couple of weeks hopefully china keeping his is sort of on his long term health and career. But you don't want him to be in a position where he might be incentivized to be dishonest. About the extent of the injury in an in an effort to be on the opening day roster. And you don't want the team to slow play this guy even when he might be. You know ready sooner than than they wanna say because they want a good excuse for the service time manipulation to take place and. I'm not saying that any of that is going to happen. But i just i do think that one of the side effects of this stuff is that you end up in in a skeptical place where you wouldn't necessarily be if you've had confidence that everyone was sort of acting in good faith so i hope that kelanic recovers soon and that. He doesn't russia and that the team promotes simas yunessi is deemed ready both from a health end onfield perspective and then the mariners could be good or at least better than they would be and then we can all sing and hopefully better than the mlb guitarist because that was terrible and the last bit of news is jayco torrisi related so we talked last week about the fact that oh teresi was still unsigned and was clearly the best free agent still available. You speculated that the astros would be a good fit for him because of the injury to from revolt as and then there is a subsequent injury to forest whitley and it was not the deepest rotation to begin with and sometimes things just make sense and the player ends up at the obvious destination so the astros did sign odor easy. It's a sort of an oddly structured. Deal so it's a two year deal with a player option for the twenty twenty three season. But it's an option that is very unlikely to be exercised because it's a twenty three and a half million dollar guarantee but it's a six million dollar signing bonus a six million dollar salary in twenty twenty one a five million dollar salary twenty twenty two and then a six and a half million dollar player option for twenty twenty three which comes with a three and a quarter million dollar buyout. there wouldn't be much incentive for him to exercise that option. Less things have gone horribly wrong for him between now and then so it's kind of one of those weird situations where it seems like it's largely maybe tube suppress the average annual value of the contract for competitive bounds tax purposes. Which you know that was kind of the issue with the astros. Everyone was pointing to the astros as an obvious destination for odor easy but they were right up against the cpt and so the question was can they signed him and still stay under that and they seem to have found a way to do that. Because the player option is technically considered guaranteed money and a guaranteed year because the player has the option to exercise it and so the average annual value of the so torrisi deal is a little less than eight million dollars whereas if they were to put the same total into two years it would be considerably higher and in this case it would put them over the tax threshold. And i don't know if it's just me but anecdotally. I i haven't studied this but it seems like teams are getting more brazened. How does does right by big ways to get that average annual value lower because for competitive bounce tax purposes what is assessed as the annual value of contract. And so if you can take another year onto the end of that thing or or do something to try to get the av down. Then it's less avai quasi cap hit for you and the yankees just this same player option gambit with brett gardner in deir no day and justin wilson so that saved them at least a few million i see bt purposes in theory like they're supposed to be limits to how much you can manipulate that and upi is supposed to have some oversight there but it has seemed to me more and more like teams are sort of skirting that and finding ways around it and it's not like i mind this sure. The purpose of the c. Is partly to try to maintain competitive balance. But it's largely to discourage teams from spending. I don't know why. Mlb is not cracking down more on that because if there is one thing that mlb tends to be pretty vigilant about it is trying to suppress salaries and payrolls somehow and the seems like one way you can get around the penalties. That are in the cba. So i don't know if it's just that it's tough to legislate this or it's the last year of the cpa and they figure while the system is going to change anyway but it's something that has struck me as becoming more common. Yeah yeah i sorry. I've been talking like jimmy stewart. Last two weeks. I need i need vaccine. So the facts of the vaccine. It makes you stop talking like jimmy. Mr would let me go outside with greater confidence. Probably i'm so sorry. I don't know leave it all in dylan people should know this. Is this what. It's like. Now so i am so i am similarly surprised i mean i don't wanna offer a galaxy brain take but i do wonder if if maybe they are like fall. This cat's players paid and we want to try to tamp down labor unrest and being creative and so you know if another owners like. Hey what about that guy over there. We can say well they did. They structured the deal so cleverly. I don't know though it still does seem very odd. I assumed that the white sox would get their slapped around this stuff but after after they didn't one hundred signing i was like Maybe maybe everyone just gets to have have a little a little cvt. Shenanigans retreat to stop this. I guess you'd have to build something in where you can't have like a greater than something percent increase or decrease in salary over the life of the deal. Maybe something like that would work. I know this has been an issue in other sports and they've found ways to curtail it. I was asking michael bowman about this earlier. Because i knew that this had come up in the nhl and bauman explained to me that this was at least one cpa ago but there was a spate of contracts that would run like twelve years and carry on until the players age forty two season or something and at age thirty seven or so the salary would drop from ten million dollars a year to one million but because the cap hit was the it only costs seven million or whatever against the cap and at the time of the salary drop the understanding was that the player was supposed to retire and so in two thousand ten the devils signed ilya kovalchuk to a seventeen year contract right which is a pretty bold that would have run until he was forty four years old and so the nhl said not so fast and they made reconfigure the contract i think to fifteen years for roughly the same amount but then in punishment for trying to do the seventeen year deal the nhl strip the devil first round draft pick from them. Although i think then gave it back before the punishment applied and batman said there is something called cap recapture where if a player on one of those super long deals retired after the salary dropped but before the term of the deal was up the team would take cap penalty for the difference and then ultimate leave they just agreed to limit the term contracts. So you could only sign a maximum of eight year. Contract extensions and seven years for free and so i guess that could be. Mlb future but maybe they can keep getting away with it if teams don't make that egregious and diamond said nhl gm's are nowhere near as devious as an upbeat will stay on the right side of that line. Capri capture. sounds like us based thing that sound like a stage. In like our rocket re entry or something catastrophic hap- recapture capita anyway. The astros found a way to get jacob and it's probably good for them that they did because they really need him even though he has not gone deep into games lately and even though he missed much of last season with non arm related injuries between valez and whitley and cova outbreaks in not having a ton of depth to begin with the astor's really needed someone like him to kind of raise their four. I think in a division where they're not the powerhouse anymore in the in the as are credible competitors and so it it seems like as dense impor- ski wrote in his post about this that adding it really gives them some insurance and makes the the worst outcomes less likely yeah. I think that that's right and it's not a sure fire signing by any means but it is. I think they would have left themselves very vulnerable to what is a winnable. Division for other teams would have been much more so if they hadn't done this so I don't know that they had another choice but to sign some and i think they got the best of the available options still on the market. So yeah we don't have to believe that conversation but yeah those astros and more important. It cemented my win in the offseason. Free thank you came down to odor easy you who i had the under on his predicted. Thirty nine million dollar deal from mlb trade rumors and ended up comfortably under that which was unfortunate for odor. Easy who at a different time might have cashed in more in sort of deserve to probably based on his longer track record but at least i eat out the w in that draft which i know everyone was on the edge of their seat waiting to see who would win that one so we will take a quick break. Now and we'll be back with caitlin mcgrath talk about bluejays followed by brisby. The giants fan took me all right. It is time to talk about the days and we are joined by king mcgrath. Who covers the movies and comics for the athletic she. Also co host. The blue jays podcasts. At yet but expen- rate how are you doing pretty well so i think the blue jays may have led the league in boomers. This offseason both rumors that panned out in rumors. That didn't it was kind of a running joke on the podcast for a week or two that every time a free agent would signed. We would hear that the blue jays. We're so close. They were the runners that they made the second biggest offer and then ultimately they did land. Some of their targets ended up being pretty busy. But do you think this offseason took the path that hey envisioned or intended because they did talk a game coming into the winter. They said they were going to be active. And then they certainly seemed like they were trying to. But maybe it took a little longer for them to actually breakthrough than they had anticipated. Yeah i mean i Would consider this to have been a very good off season for the blue jays in a sense that they did accomplish a lot of what they wanted to get. You mentioned that they eventually did get some of the targets. They wanted so when. I looked at the off season. I'm from the outset of it. I thought george springer did make a lot of sense for these blue jays. Centerfield was a position of need for them. They also needed a a sort of star player. Like a player that you could really build your offense around. In addition to that a player who's experienced and a player who has a lot of playoff experience. And so when you kind of look at all that and then you look at a guy like toward springer. He just made a lot of sense for the blue jays. So i thought that the offseason was really going to hinge on whether or not they were able to get him because the sense around the team just following the team. He's did seem like he was their number. One guy certainly. They probably had other guys that they ought to that. They didn't get. But it just seemed like george springer really was their priority. I think they really wanted him and they really went out and got him other. Signings look really. Good like marcus. Semi-in looks really good in the lineup. He makes the offense even better obviously. He's moving positions so the Really signaling to boba shed that they have faith in him because markus simians gonna move over to base but the blue jays kinda talked a lot about how their position players are very versatile so they kind of approach the offseason where they weren't exactly looking for a specific position per se. They were really trying to like target people in players. They really wanted and then kind of mold their team around those guys. So i would say position player wise. I think the bullpen. They made some nice additions. Kirby gates i think could be like a sneaky good signing so i would say the only thing didn't really address fully would be starting pitching on obviously brought back robbie ray. They traded for stephen Matt's both of those guys are kind of bounce back candidates if you will last year there were some good returns from robbie ray so he was really happy with the blue jays. He kind of wanted to continue on that path to see if they could really kind of rejuvenate his career. But i would say like the starting pitching that would be the one area where the blue jays didn't necessarily check all the boxes. I think they're still kind of missing another front of the rotation arm to kinda compliment hundred. Reaon it come. It becomes even more apparent now. Because maybe we'll get into this later. But like nate pearson's kind of separating from a minor injury right now so it kind of you know. Their rotation is probably the weak spot of their roster currently. Do you get the sense that it's any harder for the blue jays to sign free agents than the typical team because there is a perception that that's the case for various reasons whether it's because well currently they sort of lack a- a- staple homefield but also just generally you know the playing surface or being the only team in canada and the complications that come with that the milk coming in bags and cartons whatever it is do you think that they have to pay any sort of toronto premium to get players to come there. I do think that it probably does take some more money. Just because taxes are higher here. Tuesday could take some extra money. I that that's generally the perception around toronto especially the over the last few years in all the points he made valid like. I do think that there are some legitimate concerns or dislike a questions or uncertainties with some players have who have not spent any time in canada. It is very similar to the united states but it is a different country. There are some major differences in it is just living in a different place. You have to get used to crossing the border all the time you have to. Your family would have to have passports if they don't so. There are just like a lot of things that you have to consider. They're not major roadblocks but just additional things you have to consider and then this season and last season in particular like you're talking about the blue jays have all this uncertainty about whether they can even play in toronto. We don't know yet if they'll be able to play here. But honestly talking to guys like george springer markelle simeon to you kirby. Yates like It didn't really come up with them like not. None of them sounded that concerned about the uncertainty about the home ballpark on the blue jays. Did a good job sort of like reassuring them like. This would be the plan and you know we'll make everyone comfortable will make families comfortable staying in dunedin to start the season so that's really not a huge transition for the players because they're all already there during spring training so and the the other point i would make is just that i think all the concerns that come along with maybe coming to canada or just coming to a new team are valid but i also think like if the team is winning team players. Wanna come here and at the blue jays are willing to spend money in pay players which they demonstrated they are willing to do this past offseason than players will come here so i do think that there are some questions that pertain to the blue jays. Only the blue jays. But i also think just like other teams they can spend money. They can put a winning team on the field and if they do those who things players will probably wanna come here. Can't believe that ben is reigniting. The bagged milk controversy effectively. Wilde's pass so the blue jays did what they set out to do. They signed exciting. Players gonna feel this this team of new free agents and their young core and it's gonna be a lot harder for people in canada to see them and it's going to be a little bit of a different experience to hear them so before we get into some of the specifics of the roster. I wanted to ask you what your impression of the fan base is. Reaction is to the team's decision to sort of eliminate their dedicated radio broadcast and simulcast their tv broadcast. And then it seems like it's been very difficult to watch this blue jays team during spring training through some combination of scheduling in the end the blackout restriction. So what is the general sense among blue jays fans about that right now. And what's the strategy here because you would think that you once you've gone out and signed exciting players wanna make it really easy for your fans to watch them especially when they can't in person at least not in the beginning of the season yeah. I think that there is a lot of disappointment among fans right now about not being able to see the during spring training although they did set up cam camera today that just like streamed the game with no sound so that was something that was new today so does he make are making a bit of effort. I mean it's a complicated thing. Because as i understand it. The decision about the broadcast and the decision about the radio broadcasts in particular would come down to sports net. Which of course is owned by rogers. Which rogers also owns the blue jays so there is some overlap there. I don't know exactly who is making the decision about the broadcast. My sense is that it comes more from the media side so like a sports nut side as opposed to the blue jays. Having really much say in that. I think if you ask the blue jays i think they would prefer to have as much content about their teams as much as possible so but it is a it is one of those very complicated situations here just because of the ownership questions than being owned by the same communications company here but just generally like it has been it has sort of slowed down. I guess the the hyper excitement that was around the blue jays. Coming off this offseason. I think that. I think that once the season starts though in the game at least be on tv again. That kind of excitement will reignite. It's been a weird year. Because i think there's also been a lot of teams. I don't know if it's budget or what it is but it seems like a lot of different fan base has has have been dealing with the frustration of not being able to see spring games. I wonder if it's just you know. Another another layer to the general frustration. How difficult busier has been for everybody and just not that rushing. Change to see baseball on tv and stuff. It feels like it's all kind of adding up but you know in a couple of weeks they'll be on. Tv every day and the blue jays fans will be able to watch them albeit gobi dunedin. Toronto fans are still going to feel kind of far away from the actual team. Yeah and i think the blue tastes are the only team. That's doing the simulcasting of radio and tv broadcasts and i know that last year. Going into two thousand twenty. The a is announced that they weren't going to be doing terrestrial radio broadcasts but they were still doing dedicated internet radio broadcast and then very quickly. I think because of the outcry about that they went back on that and had terrestrial radio broadcasts but the blue jays. Roger seem to justify this decision based on covert and travel concerns but it seems like a lot of people interpreted as a cost cutting measure. Which if so don't seems like it would be somewhat shortsighted because baseball on. The radio is quite different from baseball on tv. And if you try to tv broadcast with radio listeners in mind or vice versa it seems like you're either going to over describe or under described him units. It's hard to satisfy both of those audiences. So do you think it's a cost cutting thing. Is there any possibility that they might change their minds. Easer the season in a future season. I hope so. Like i really hope. The radio broadcasts comes back. Because you're all the points you said are exactly. I mean it's a different audience. I think that also there are people that just prefer radio Prefer listening to it on the radio. Maybe it's because they grew up out. I'm listening to based on the radio. They preferred those. Broadcasters i think thumbs worsening in particular they let go of mike wilner who was the previous play by play voice for them the last few years so they really had a vacancy. The sort of i understood it as that they were going to try and fill that vacancy with a former player tight broadcaster to complement bed wagner still with sports net and so that was kind of the announcement that we were all waiting for. Who is going to be the second the second voice in the radio booth and then it came down that obviously they were doing the simulcast. I mean i will say that. Dan stolman is going to be part of some of those. I'm not sure the number of games he's doing or whether it's even been announced yet but if there is a person who can handle that kind of challenge of calling it on tv and radio at the same time. I think dan schulman's a guy that can step up and do that. I mean he's a really great broadcaster. He's beloved in canada. I mean he's probably beloved everywhere but especially beloved here in so. I'm sort of optimistic. That he ended up martinez. Pablo will be there too. But then i'm optimistic. That dan schulman has the has the chops to handle it. But i do hope i do. Hope moving forward that they do find they go back to the ways it was right and they have. They do hire someone. I don't know if it's going to be a former player who it will be but certainly you have to wonder right like you do have to wonder about you. Know if it is a cost cutting thing but like you were saying like if other teams have tried. This are some time. It's so much backlash that you know the reverse course in there certainly has been a lot of backlash over that decision about the simulcast. So i mean. I don't know for sure but i'm optimistic and i would hope that just knowing how much Fans are hurting not having radio broadcast. They would sort of intend for next year for it to go back to normal. Well this is the time of year when we hear about is being in the best shape of their lives often. That's just eyewash. But one guy that it might actually apply to mirror junior. I'm sorry to start with this. But i'm sure you anticipated the question. I'm curious just how he actually does look in camp. And what if anything you might think it means For his future defensive position he he moved to first base last year. I imagine that he will still take the majority of his at bats at first but dusing. There's any possibility that he might end up. Moving back up the defensive spectrum as a result of this shift in his physicality or is he just firmly anchored at first. So i'm not present in dunedin right now so i can't confidently say how exactly he looks with my own eyes because i think we've only seen him on zoom and you know what kind of looks like on zoom the you sitting down but i have heard from people that are there that have seen him and they say it's a noticeable change like they say he looks really good And i think you're right. I think it is probably almost accurate to say that he probably is in the best shape of his life and he kind of alluded to that too like. He said he feels later. You feels more agile. He feels like he can take more ground balls. He feels like he can swing the bat. Better back speeds all that kind of stuff so it does seem like it all is pointing to direction where he is going to be better on the field in. I think also just like total credit to lad. He's in his early twenties. He went out in las forty. Two pounds is what he told us. That's incredible so. I think that alone Just being able to accomplish that taking his career in his own hands the accountability. All that kind of stuff. It's really great to see. I think sometimes we forget. Because i feel like we've been talking about vlad for years and years and years think sometimes we almost forget how young he is still early in his career. So i think that everybody around the organization all his teammates. Everyone is very happy to see him. You know initiate shape. That he's in and i think it's pretty apparent that he's really feeling good about himself. So that's that. I think in terms of defensive position. I think that they're giving him an opportunity to play some third base on and they don't want to close that door. I think that it's really beneficial for the blue jays and there are kind of lineup versatility. If he can play a little bit third base because it really just opens things up for the rest of the lineup. So of ladd can slide over third base for a game. Then you can have rowdy to lead at first base and then you can use one the extra outfielders at the d. h. position. So i mean i could go on and on about different kinds of lineup combinations that it opens up for vlad at third i will say. I don't foresee him becoming an everyday third baseman. I think that the blue jays the message to him is that you can play a little bit of third base but we really want you to excel at first base. Now i think they gave him the message like something along the lines of you know go out there and go become a gold glove first baseman. So i really think they envisioned for faces his position. But they're not gonna close the door on third base. If that makes sense. And i guess like you know i'm also curious sort of where he's at with the bat we've you know. He was hugely touted. Prospect when eric long in hagen wrote about him for fan graphs he described his bat as messianic. And i'm curious you know. he in. The shorter season saw a bit of an improvement at the plate. But he has he has yet to reach the high highs that he in double and triple a. in two thousand eighteen and i'm curious one sort of what the expectations are for him. Offensively this year and also if he's experienced anything of any sort of release of the pressure of being the big bat in the lineup. Because now he you know he doesn't necessarily have to carry this offense all by himself. He surrounded by some other potent hitter. So what effect has that had on. Sort of his approach at the plate in the way that he sort of thinks of himself in the light up. Yeah i think that about the pressure for sure. I think having the bringing those two guys. In particularly on a george springer end marcus simeon definitely does take some of the load off of not just vlad but some of the other young players to like boba cabinet. Bdo today's daddy dance on. All of them were so young. They're still early in their career thing. Adding those kind of veteran experience. Bats really does take some pressure off of the other guys In vlad in particular. I think with you know. I think that he learned some really key lessons through his first two seasons. I mean they're not quite full seasons yet. He with his start in his rookie. Year was delayed. You weeks we know the reason why and then obviously last year was season. So you really hasn't had like a full season runway release. He do. I think he just learned some valuable lessons. He learned how much harder it is in the major leagues to hit two to hit and right like a major league. Pitchers are a lot better than minor league pitchers in so i think he learned a lot about preparation. I think he learned a lot about. Just you know being a professional hitter as as they always say you know all the all that kind of stuff on even the fitness stuff like i know talked a lot about how fatigued with got to him and you know especially after at the end of a long season he would feel tired and i think in his rookie year You really did see sort of a decline there. In the last few months he really attributed to his just getting tired interest nino not being as fit as possible and that contributed to his kind of slow end of the year. Again like it kinda goes back to just like him working hard this offseason and i think for that reason like i think it's it's fair to be fairly optimistic about flawed. I have sort of picked him to be like a breakout candidate. Which feels we are to say because again like we all know that. Yeah we know who that is like. He's not like some like guy that he's like a twenty six man roster and i'm saying he's gonna break out this year like we know it does feel like they're they're the pieces are there. He's gone through the lake the lessons that you need to go through early on in your career. He's learned how to be a better hitter. Learned all these different things. He's coming into camp really good shape. He's got he's now on the team. That's not quite in the rebuild. They're kind of on the other side of the rebuild so some of the pressures probably off of him and i think all those things they they suggest to me that he could be heading for. Maybe that sort of big season that we all are all the fans and everyone was sort of just waiting for him Since since he debuted in the league so if floods not gonna play third someone else has to and they were some thought that we might bring in a third baseman ultimately. They signed marcus semyon. Who's more of a middle infielder which seems to leave that spot to cabinet be. Oh semi-in has played a little bit of third in the past and be she too has played some third but is not primarily a third baseman. Speaking so defensively speaking. How is he expected to fit there. And then also offensively. He's been quite productive over what is essentially a full season's worth of playing time thus far but there's still some skepticism about his bat because he just has not hit the ball very hard it has worked fine for him so far and he walks a lot like his old man maybe even more than his old man but is there any skepticism within the organization that he can keep up that kind of the production. No i think I think the blue jays are huge fans of Some of it has to do with the intangibles any brings to the team. And i think some of it has to do with the tangible brings to the team so defensively. They have a lot of faith that he will adapt to third base in. Like you said the town experience. They are especially not in professional baseball. I think early almost like when he was a teenager. I think-i played a little bit of third base. But i mean that's a long time ago on it's kind of like youth baseball on whatever it was but he seems really eager and keen to learn third base that position he's working hard their untold in spring training. Really taking ground balls there and so. I think that there doesn't seem to be really any concerns about him. There in the blue jays. Like i said earlier like they kind of went into this offseason almost fully expecting that. That was a possibility i think. If they didn't have faith that cabin could do it. Then they really would've gone out and got specifically got a third baseman essentially with signing semi end like in. This is a move that you gotta do your organization trying to bring in. The sky is essentially said to him. What do you want. We're not gonna shortstop that supposed position about what. What would you prefer to play. He said second base so they gave him second base. So that kind of moved cabin. Over in kevin's he's built this reputation as this very team. I will do whatever the team needs from me kind of guy. And so essentially like they were like we need to at third base in. he's like got it and so he's fully immersed himself in sort of learning opposition so the only concern might be his arm strength. I think that's the one thing that is something that he probably needs to work on other than also like really getting comfortable with a position. I think he was saying that. Third base is a lot more reactionary than second base. So i think it's sorta just like really getting the reps there this spring and offensively. Yeah he's he's not the hardest hitter. He does have a tendency to hit. Some home runs. That are like wall scrapers. I know that's kind of been the book on him. Hitting high-velocity is while has not been his strong suit so there are some things offensively needs to work on in there might be some things offensively. That just really aren't in his wheelhouse. I think though he really does make up for it in some other ways like the his ability to get on base is pretty much been the best on the blue jays for the last couple years you know you said. He takes a lot of walks. He really has. That patient played approach. He's a good. He's good about taking a lot of pitches. And i think he's also been good about adapting like i think early on in his career he pitches kinda got the book on him that he really didn't swing audrain until they just started pounding him with strikes in he would strike out and so i think he kind of learned that he has to kind of walk that fine line between being patient but also being aggressive in going up there and swinging. If you see a pitch you want hit. So he's he's adaptable. I think he of recognizes things that he needs to work on in one thing that you mentioned this year which has been sort of a trend. That's been going through the blue jays last two years. has been there to strike approach. You not oscar. Hernandez talked a little bit about how that contributed to his sort of breakout last year which is to strike. Approach simplifying swing. It'd be more confident up there with two strikes so and obviously bobryshev as well known for his to strike approach. So i think kevin trying to borrow from those things and try to improve offensively that way. I want to ask about a trio of players because the the blue jays catching situation fascinates to me so right. Now you have your dan jansen you have reached mcguire and then you have all hundred kirk. Who has the most impressive albeit in a very small sample of of their bats at least recently but doesn't necessarily look like he should be able to play catcher because he is kind of a husky guy and as a result of that is uniquely fascinating to me because the body type is so unusual for big leaguer regardless of position. So do you think that he has a chance to sort of slot into the eventual backup role. Or is that really rece- maguire's gig at this point. I think he has a chance. You know. allah hundred kirk fan favorite around here blue as fans love him. I think he's just really fun. Gotta watch for a lot of different reasons and so last year when he got called up it was. It was a surprise to me. I didn't think the blue jays do it just because have typically been sort of really cotton like not cautious. But they didn't really careful. I guess with development in progressing is slowly and but then again last year was a weird year really didn't have the minor leagues to move up in so they really hide if they wanted all hundred kirk to get a taste of actual competition. They had to put him in the major so and it was kind of a mixture of things do it was released which was having a really bad year last year. They really couldn't even have him out there. He really just had to figure things out. So kirk stepped in. He was great last year. You know. I think the blue jays were really really impressed with how seamlessly hitchike transition to the major leagues last year. Especially considering he hadn't played above high. I think a lot of the blue jays. Painters were really impressed with him as well. Like the How he called game. Like i remember probably ray In particular an instant connection with him and so considering all that. I do think he has a chance to make the team. I've been kind of like when i feel like making my productions maki my predictions in stuff. I've been kind of like taking the safe route. I suppose in insane in Only because like i think race is out of options. So if the blue jays didn't break camp with him than potentially they could lose him or you know they have to work out a trade at the same time. Like i think kirk the blue jays really want to be a competitive team this year. They wanna have their best lineup. Every day kirk makes them better because he can really hit. I think he needs to. I think the team says He needs to continue improving defensively. I think game calling in communication getting more comfortable back. There just other defensive things while he worked on them all off season. Of course you can continue getting better. Like i said he really doesn't have a ton of experience at the high minor league level and he's only got a handful of games at the major league level so he can always get better. Get us more time the miners i think really. That's the most interesting sort of roster job competition right now which is kind of boring. Because the blue jays Most rauscher sort of sat which is a new phenomenon. Like there's been other years where we didn't really know what the would be but this year the is kinda sad like the big competition is like who's going to be the backup catcher. So at this point i think it's almost fifty fifty really depends on what the blue jays kinda wanna do. Whether they don't wanna lose res whether they want to spend more time miners that i can see it going kind of either way. So you mentioned the rotation. There's been a lot of turnover there. The last couple of years there was Twenty nineteen when everyone in ontario to start at some point okay. Rebuilt their rotation again and now they've sort of rebuilt it another time in as you noted they didn't really land a top of the rotation target so they settled for a few new faces. None of whom is Assure thing necessarily and i'm sure they have high hopes for pearson who is struggling with a grain issue right now. So how do you see this shaking out. Because there are a bunch of people who are ostensibly in the rotation who kind of been back and forth between the bullpen and the rotation in their careers. And maybe there some interchangeability there. So is this gonna be a weakness. A strength is the sort of a work in progress though I don't know like i think that on paper. It looks like a weakness in a sense of when you look at the Rousers whole if you were to say. What is the weak link here. I think it's a credit to the other parts of the lineup. I guess but i think pitching starting pitching in particular was the weaker spot and with the injury with pearson characterize as minor I think as far as i can tell it does seem to be fairly minor. I mean he's been playing long. Toss for the last couple of days and Presumably it shouldn't take too long for him to sort of at least be throwing aside session or something like that so there is some optimism that this isn't gonna really sidelined him for a long time but i think it's fair to say that he's probably questionable for the start of the season just because this will put him behind a little bit. I think like the guy who slides in is probably roster plane just because he's kinda built being built as a and then in he was an invitation he would take up that like swing man role. So it's kind of easy to just slot him in the rotation to start the year. Then if nick using it's healthy then then you just move ross back to the bullpen. Where he's still long anyway. So but there's other options like the blue jays. I will say like there. Is some question marks about their the high end of their rotation. i guess but they do. They have built themselves quite a bit of depth. Like they have a lot of young guys that you like you alluded to like that kind of were bullpen guys. Last year but really are more traditional star types or want to be traditional star types so like anthony tae trent thornton of last year but he was a starter for them in two thousand nineteen like our most consistent starter and they are. Is thomas hatch. Julian mary weather is another guy although he's kinda dealing with some lower back tightness right now doesn't sound again like it's super serious but it's kinda slowing down. Tj's awake is another name. He's a guy that wants to be a starter so they have like a lot of young. So any of those guys kinda be called upon to be starters but if you look at sort of like the the rotation in how it will be like you re you at the top. Obviously he was great for them last year probably There's probably still some lingering questions about like injury with him or you just really never know like he does sometimes need to pitch on extra rests so there always are you know with review. You do have to be careful. Are he's very particular. And then after that. It's like kinda betting on guys that you really hope like found something right so lake. Tanner rourke is really trying to bounce back from last year which he was not happy with. Why guys kind of alluded to before like robbie. Ray really wants to bounce back. He liked he liked with the blue jays. Were doing with him so he he signed almost right away because he wanted to continue that work with them. Pete walker and bushmen. And then stephen matt's who's actually had a really nice start spraying he today yet. Another good outing. And he's kind of really clicked with the blue jays pitching coaches as well so there is a lot of question marks around this rotation award of it is kind of like hope a prayer on some of these guys really bounce back and not kind of fall back into maybe some tendencies that they were that they struggled with last year on paper. I'd say it kind of looks like a weakness because you really don't know how it's going to pan out and i think also like the blue jays are probably almost looking ahead to the trade deadline and like if they're not shopping for a starter even before then. I think they will be at that point. So those guys who you mentioned are hoping to hand leads off to the blue jays bullpen and the bullpen. Last year was not especially good. It was toward the the bottom half of the american league. It was in the bottom half of baseball overall and to remedy that they have brought in a couple of guys some of whom had disappointing challenging twenty twenty s but who they're expecting a bounce back from so they added kirby yates they added tyler chat. Would they added david phelps. So this seems like a group that could gel nicely or could once again sort of disappoint. What are your expectations for them this year. Yeah the bullpen was weird last year. Because i think up until the midway point which i mean last year was like midway point was only like thirty games or whatever but the the bullpen was actually quite good and then they really seem to like tire out and i think some of that was because of injuries really went to the open pretty aggressively at a lot of young guys. They're like they weren't used to the bullpen roles and just like other crazy things with baseball on small sample size in the kind of stuff so it was weird year for the. I think they're hoping that it says a more of a strength this year. The names you mentioned. They all have good track. Records especially kirby eighteen especially felt for being released. Chat wood is more kind of transitioning to be that high leverage relief guy now which is interesting because i think when he signed initially sorta seemed like he might be more of a swing man tight just giving his starting experience but he's really kind of embracing that relief for all our high leverage relief role and You know he's also really good so far like throwing the ball really hard in so that kind of thing early returns suggest that could work out really nicely for them so i think a lot of this the success of the bullpen kind of hinges on garlic. Kirby yates if he can really stop into the closer role and return to form a twenty nineteen even get close to it than you know. He's one of the best relief pitchers in the majors. He's a guy he actually appeared in spring at. I think kind of bringing him on slow just given like The injury in surgery that he had last year. But he's also a guy that traditionally isn't a big reload guy. He's got the splitter rate. So i think that he's a guy that if if you are hoping for a bounce back those guys traditionally maybe bounce back better. 'cause they're just like not relying on like blowing past guys so that's why i kinda thinking might be like a sneaky good signing because i think there's potential there for him to just kind of put twenty twenty behind him and really kind of like the pitcher that he was in twenty nineteen and you know. The blue jays have some other interesting arms in their bullpen lake jordan. Romano really like really kind of exploded onto the scene last year He was a guy that had. He's from Just outside of toronto so he's like a hometown guy and he had spent some time in the minors as more of a starter and then finally jays cottages converted him to a reliever and then he came into camp last year having spent his full. Offseason focused on relief anti really. The returns were great like he looked great original spring training. He looked great at summer. Camp you've really had a nice start to the season and then it ended with like a finger injury which kind of was tough. But he was shaping up to almost like a future closer. He did have some closing opportunity so if he can really be the guy. He was for that short sample last year. The jays do have a pretty good sort of setup back there they could have a yates that romano phelps back backloading bullpen. Which i think you know if all those guys are doing what they traditionally have been able to do. I think the bullpen actually could be a relative strength from blue jays. Wanted to give you a an opportunity to talk briefly about the new player development complex that you wrote about a couple of weeks ago and a link to that piece but seems like the blue jays separately invested in that area. I know they've really been at the forefront of pursuing sports science and high performance departments and. I know that they tend to be pretty secretive about that stuff. Tried to talk to them. When i was working on the mvp machine but it seems like they're doubling town in those areas. And i guess it's not a bad time to open up a new complex in dunedin when the big league team will be there for at least a little while. Yeah i mean so. The complex has been a project that's been ongoing for the last five five and a half years. Essentially since march pyro joined the blue jays. That's been one of his. Priorities is to rebuild the facilities in dunedin. And you know he. He was pretty blunt him when he was talking to whenever they unveiled the facility. A couple a couple of weeks ago. And you're saying that like the facility in dunedin was like the laughing stock of the features like it was really outdated right. I mean especially when you look at what other teams are building in florida and arizona. All state in the art monster facilities and so the blue jays really behind times and so finally make now. They've sort of leapfrogged teams that they were behind a now. I think they sort of consider there to be the most advanced of the majors shirt up. Only a number of years before their their Lapped some other team will come out with an even better facility but you know it is great for a good timing like you said like now they have to start the season in dunedin. I think it's really great for the players like just having this facility a lot of them have raped about just the fact that thing you need. Is there for you. The pictures that were in that piece. I have Spectacular i mean. I don't even know if i've seen like a a gym or weight room like that. Big that lake. Just there's so much there. They've got these expansive outdoor fields. These covered outdoor fields Covered like cages. So it's really impressive facility. I was honestly hike jealous looking at the photos. Because there's like the florida weather in the background. Literally sunny nice and i would love to go see it that we were there last year and it was just like under construction so you could kind of envision like how big it would be because you know you just like saw the like outlines of it but when seated actually completed as is completely different so but yeah like it's one of those things where gave a tour but of course they didn't let us see inside like the pitching labs and all those like labs teams have so i think they think it's going to give an advantage. I think that there's certainly reasons why it could give them advantage right. Like i think having a great facility for players will make players like wanna spend time. They're working out. I think there's some hope that eventually it could become dunedin in that surrounding area. Could become like a hub for the blue jays in. You'd have like blue jays player spending like year round in in florida or essentially offseasons in florida. And so they're really using that facility all the time and then the Teams can have sort of more supervision over offseason plans and and so they kind of really hope that that it does lead to Championship quality teams. And i think that obviously there are other factors that go into that. But i think like having this facility having decked out with every single player coaches in the organization needs it can only help right like you can only helps. Oh pretty spectacular. They did a good job like paying tribute. I thought to like the blue jays organization. The history you know looked really nice. All the there's a lot of photos up there which i think thrilled the players that there was like photos of them like just last year in staff so it literally nice and i think everyone's really happy with it and so we'll see what the next big project is for mark shapiro. Everyone's gonna be everyone's going. I already saw fans asking for. Okay now now renovate the roger center. So that's gonna be the next big project that everyone's going to be asking about. Yeah i know. They've brought in people who started in sports european sports other non american sports. So if you look at the blue jays front office you know. High performance department was things you see. A lot of names like angus mugford. Which hey. I always enjoy seeing there. But they've been kind of progressive when it comes to that so we will end a second by asking you for a win. Total prediction for this season. But it's hard. I suppose to predict how many wins. The team will have without even knowing where it will be playing and when and this was something they've got used to just being an itinerant team last year playing in buffalo playing all over the place and i guess you could say it mattered less than a season where no one had fancy at games then again i guess you could say it mattered more in a season when there was all this uncertainty about the coronavirus and it was probably added stress to always be on the road and not in complete control of your surroundings and living out of a hotel all the time but regardless they are starting this season in dunedin. Is there any sense of how long that might last. And if and when they might be able to return to draw or what sort of effect it might have if they have to stay in florida for well so the initial plan right. Now i think is for them to play out there i to a home series in dunedin which i think takes us to just after the beginning of may and then i mean they'll reassess our certainly though before that date but so they could stay in dunedin for longer they come back to canada and their questions about that would just be like the further you got into the summer months. The worst weather can be in florida so it just as hot and it can be relate rainy and you can just have these massive thunderstorms and so the weather becomes an issue and obviously the blue Spring training ballpark does not have a roof so on it might not be a good idea for them to stay there much longer than into the summer so if they are not able to come back to canada than they would probably go back to. Buffalo is my guess. They've kind talked about how they're trying to implement. Some hermit changes in the fields in buffalo with the bison they are affiliated with them anyway. And they've just signed like they re upped that affiliation so they're going to be a failure to them for the number of years so investing in that ballpark permanently is only going to help organization but it will still take a lot of effort for them to move to buffalo though have to kind of do similar things what they did last year and they can't find the same solutions for like last year. Emerson the photos but like last year the blue jays used the concourse for example as like their weight room and like their cages. And stuff like that so obviously. They can't do that this year. Because presumably in new york state they will be able to sell a limited amount of tickets so if fans are going to be in the stands even a handful of them than they're going to be to move through the concourse so so there's gonna be even more creative solutions for buffalo this year and then it just to answer your question about canada like it's really still uncertain i think The only thing that i can say is just that really kind of just depends on continued. Roll out of the vaccine. Both in the united states in canada in it depends on then how successful that is then when ever the border opens I think that will be really key. I mean the blue jays will continue to talk to various levels of government in canada. They need to. But i think the thing why they weren't able to play here last year and why they didn't even really pursue to play here yet is because you know things really haven't changed enough with the spread of the virus by in you know things changed so quickly as we've seen this Going through this pandemic altogether so in two months time it could look really different. And i know the vaccine timeline in the united states is a little bit different than it is in canada. But they're talking about. They're really optimistic and canada. Now the last couple of days about even getting all adults vaccinated by the end of june. I think in ontario. So you know that was able to be done than i think. There's probably a path for the blue jays to eventually return to candidate at some wheat. This summer i think that sort of the hope. I think that if they could get back here some point in the summer that would be the best case scenario. It's so hard to pinpoint like a date though it will happen like so much could change between now and then okay. Well that takes us to the last question. Which is how many games do you foresee the blue jays. Winning in twenty twenty one. Good question never great at predicting this kind of stuff. I'm will say. Eighty eighty six. I think okay six all right. Well i don't know if that will satisfy all fans but at least they have a lot of young entertaining players to watch new additions. Hopefully they'll be able to listen at some point and it won't be weird as well so it's an exciting young team in an up and coming team and following up on a playoff appearance and hoping to make it another but difficult division as usual so you can find caitlyn at the athletic toronto canada yet. Let it be. You can listen to her on spin rate the bluejays podcast via the athletic. And you can find her on twitter at cape ann mcgrath. Thank you very much kitten and now we will take one more quick break. We'll be back with brisbane to talk about the giants. Ncaa way he said you care about you. We are back and we're as ready as we'll ever be discussing the san francisco giants. We used to be joined by our friend in yours. Lennox rent went frisbee. Hello grant that is short for granted. Great it's grantham as the initial. So we're talking about the giants. I wanted to start with a quote that comes from the beginning of cars lease piece for bp in the coda. Hates your team series. And this is on the giants. And he says. I've been staring at this roster for twenty two minutes trying to make sense of it and i've got nothing. It contains a truly cursive collection of names. It reads like a neglected keeper. Team from twenty fifteen. Is this some sort of perverse amodu to remember some guys. It's like looking at an eno wildcard roster from eight years ago through a funhouse mirror. I hate it harsh but fair or harsh but unfair. Try making it your career buddy. I i think that's how i know. The whole gimmick of that series is sort of like a roast. You're supposed to take it good spirit so it's not wrong. You know you do look at a team in twenty twenty one in east. Start thinking brandon bell joke. He's gonna be thirty three and can barely tie issues anymore. But you know brandon crawford can be thirty four like you ever mongolia's thirty six. Almost i mean yeah. It's it's a weird collection of like you know. Name some guys yeah. We did a couple of weeks ago on the possibility that the giants might have an all over thirty year old lineup which has not been done since the two thousand eighteen giants before that was done times by the bonds era giant sewer old so yeah i mean if marisha debone takes a day off you're looking at all over thirty's basically i mean wilmer. Flores turns thirty point this season. I guess you've got austin slater who is A sprightly twenty eight but not exactly a youth movement going on here. No that you know. I noticed i mean i noticed this like i really noticed it like everything just snapped into focus About a week or two ago for me. Where i looked as they wait a second like a really old like i knew i knew. They were an old team last year. I think they had the average Lineup in baseball last year. So it's not a surprise but it's still jarring to think that Foreign zaidi took the team over after. Like two thousand eighteen at the time thinking. Well you know it's time to to burn everything down and lets you at grows out of the ashes in just what happened. They he stuck with the the thirty guy thirty year old guys when it made sense to and last year just making sense so there you go well even their big sort of offseason addition. This year is a guy over thirty. I guess we can use this as a as a sort of transition to talk about thomas stella who i will never be able to read without wanting to yell so but i'm curious sort of the. The duration of his deal is a little bit surprising. He's been a productive hitter for awhile now. He's been a productive hitter over the last two seasons arbeit in slightly limited time but where do they sort of see him slating and not only this year but just how much of the next good giants team do they expect. Tommy la stella to be a part of it took a question because You know he's going to be around to what twenty twenty three and he's you know he's already Thirty two years old so if you do the math thirty four. What is the thirty four year old giant going out. How much utility is that going to have pun intended. And i you know first off the first thing you have to think about is you can't worry about the contracts in the twenty twenty. Three giants have so much money coming out the books. The stella's contract. It's really really going to be back. Loaded at the same time like it's a rounding error on on that team because they have no long term contracts other lem le stella the other thing that there is utility in signing a guy for twenty twenty one. The giants are probably finish behind. The dodgers are going to finish behind the padres but You know maybe this breaks breaks here in in your challenging for the second wildcard not saying their favorites or that they're going to be in it on the last day of the season but there's also value in keeping fans interested throughout september. He can't just write off. Twenty twenty one. V give fans a reason to be excited for the summer months that that has value but i also think twenty twenty two sounds pretty darn interesting and you don't have to worry about la- sela blocking at prospect because he's so versatile you can play a third at second He can be a platoon guy. If you know markelle luciano is is ready. And you have to play luciano at third. Or or we'll wilson is ready. That's the guy that has to be at second base like. You can move less stella around. So i think it was a combination of this guy. Fits anywhere There's a benefit to winning this year. There's definitely a benefit to winning next year. In you know the giants they'll have long term contracts so why not. Yeah so you alluded to this but far hung was hired almost two and a half years ago. Now how surprised would you have been back in the fall of two thousand eighteen if someone had somehow showing you the roster resource page for twenty twenty one giants as of today. Is this totally different from what you would have expected. And why do you think he has diverged from what was expected if he has. I mean he certainly made some smart pickups and found some undervalue gems here and there. But it just hasn't really followed the blueprint that i think. A lot of people assumed he would follow. Yeah no i'd probably spend spent like the first five minutes laughing about alex dickerson's name because eight years old. But i know it is. It's a remarkable roster and a lotta ways in there would have been a lot of just like you can't go through this roster without thinking. Wait why donovan donovan solano. That guy's not even in the majors and belton crawford are still around. Are you kidding me. you know. And that's before you get to guys like Evan longoria and the the weird rotation that's like all cincinnati reds with the one exception. It's a weird roster. And i think it's just it's like a ship of theseus like you're just taking one part away and you're putting another part in and then he looked up and everyone division. No i was it got it and that was like i've listened to podcasts about the ship of theseus and i haven't seen one division. I saw i saw the reference. Come across my time. i'm like damn it. That was my pet reference. But no it's a weird roster and yet it makes sense individual ego well. Donald was stella he does this. That austin slater alex dickerson. They form together to make a a pretty nice lego Peace in left field and you can make excuses not just excuses but like arguments for all of these players. It's just when you step back in you. You've got the view from the top. It's just an old weird roster but that old weird roster can have some utility even. If it's just to to buy time for guys. So i wanna talk about the catching situation On the giants which you know we we have buster posey coming back after opting out. Last year we've noted the addition of curt casali and this seems to be impart at least to give joey bart sometime to figure stuff out. So what do you think. Went wrong for joey bar last year. And how might he get back on track. Because when his top one hundred blurb was written at fan graphs air long and hagan worried he had been tzaneen owed which seemed like a slight to me personally but perhaps not a terrible way of describing the situation that he found himself in here where he had just very little time in aa at a difficult position and then was asked to sort of figure stuff out last year. No in that's always been a competence that song over his head you've got you know right heading hidden catcher with power drafted with with one of the first picks in the first round and everything seems like it's right there every tool except maybe the content you know. Maybe they hit tool. But wha- what's going to happen. What the big problem with that Until the hit toll doesn't work and last year it was really unfair joy bard because a couple of different things. I don't blame the giants for for calling him up when when they did because They started the year and it was a real shock after a decade to realize how much good catcher meant to a team. Were you you've got. I mean it. It shouldn't be a shock but at the same time you're watching tyler heinemann and chadwick trump and she blessed them for everything that they did. But it's still just jarring. Were you've got sketch your defense defensive. Sketch your game calling skit. You're either just fueled general stuff where you're giving your teammates The best chance that they might have to succeed then so the giants wanted a catcher and they were getting rave reviews like everyone at the alternates. Guy joey part. I don't know what he's doing here. I'll choi birds killing the ball up here on the alternate side in the giants said. Okay you know screw it. The will bring them up. But we don't know Are internal metrics. Don't necessarily suggest this but okay. Let's let's just give it a give it a whirl and you know he played twenty two games above eight ball and he looked like it just flat out. He looked like a guy with twenty two games above able coming from an alternate site in the middle of the summer. In a weird mutant season and on the one hand. It's like i want to really use that. That look against bart. I just wanna be like. I saw this guy. He couldn't hit the inside pitch. Couldn't hit the outside pitch You know breaking balls away. Give him problems. Fastballs on the hands really gave him problem. So yeah. I'm just going to downgrade him to his At the same time. Newton season what he can do well. He still does well. Maybe he will hit twenty power in a solid glove. That should be fine. I think that's what the giants heads maybe. Stop at the hall of fame stuff just because it happened last time and just be happy if he is even like zunino in as prime. We've been rigging the lineup a bit for being old but it was also quite effective last year. The giants hit wealth. Hit better than i think anyone expected and actually hit. I empower hit an above average number of home runs. And i know that you have written about the facts. That oracle park seemed like the land that that you spell forgot for years but they changed the park in some ways that maybe had an impact. So why do you think. The giants did hit as well as they did last year. And what was it like to actually see some diggers in your park. It was just like the the world's fullest canteen thrown to you. When when you're marching through that does it was just to watch the team headed. They didn't they lost more games than they wanted. It make the postseason but they could freaking hit. And i'm seeing that surprised because it was if the giants were down three to nothing last year they might not win the game but you should still watch. That was never the case. It was like a three run first inning when the padres were in town in two thousand eight teams. Forget it. you know. I have to be here but you guys can go on because this isn't going to end well Last year no they would come back. it would scrap. They would have some good moments. The ballpark obviously had an effect A lot of people's pet theory is you know they. They closed the the archways. So people couldn't come in and watch the game for free and that affected the the wind tunnel at oracle park. Maybe that At the same time. I think the hitters were just better Maybe they had more confidence. The left-handers specifically when you're talking about crawford and belt had more confidence But i don't buy that theory either. Because belt in crawford started the season so poorly for two weeks. I think crawford's case three weeks they were so lost. Thought they were going to fade at any second So if it's confidence thing they would have to have the confidence to come back from that so that would have the confidence to in the park early in that i. I don't know it's it's all a big weird malange but i think it's just a their their hitters. Were were solid. I mean they were just good and maybe the coaching had a lot to do with that tattoo. Me about the weird malonga is gonna be this rotation because some of this might work. Okay maybe right so we should perhaps run through some of the the additions that they made here right they brought in guzman. They have alex. Would they have whatever is left of cueto they have anthony full ghani as you said like this is the the once and future reds. I suppose but what are. What are your expectations of what they're actually going to be able to put together here. I think the plan. And the more i thought about this because in the off season when i'm scrambling for content i'm looking at this rotation gone. Okay you need. You have these. Five starters You signed aaron sanchez. You're going to need six starter. Seven starter and eight starter. Nicer than started can't just be well. Logan webs our six starter and then we'll figure it out from there So you've got like Nick troiano and scott casimir built that depth but overall. I think the plan is just to make sure that the bullpen is in the game as much as possible and they have a lot of guys with options. You have tyler. Rogers has options and whereas miranda's options. And you'll have guys you'll have a shuttle from sacramento to san francisco that's going to turn an eight-man bullpen into a twelve man bullpen or a thirteen and bullpen. And they were already. The starters were already throwing fewer innings than ever before and that's just the trend around baseball. But i think last year Fifty percent of the team's innings were pitch by starting pitcher the lowest in franchise history that trend will either be right around there. Maybe they'll pitch even fewer innings I think that's the plan is going with their depth. They have quantity of quality. And if someone like. Alex wood gives them one hundred innings. Hey maybe that's what they're looking for you know you don't want him to give twenty innings you don't get forty innings but if he set your expectations at one hundred innings oh maybe can do it and then if you get that you know maybe can get that from aaron sanchez or if you can you get one hundred and twenty from Sclafani maybe i don't know and so i think that's the plan is get the the quantity of quality and hope for like not a total disaster. Worst case scenario for all these guys get the medium case scenario and you might be okay and what about the bullpen shopping up. And how might it be managed. I was kind of curious about what you're one of. The gabe kaplan managerial. Experience was like from sort of a a spectator perspective. So did the bullpen issues. That plagued him in philly. Follow him to san francisco. And how was his managerial style received. Yes it followed him. No it didn't like. I'm really conflicted on that. Because the giants lost their season because of the bullpen And that's that's not really in dispute. They had the one stretch. I can't remember exactly it was Three blow ninth inning leads in four games that led to losses three or four or five games That led to losses. And that's really really really hard to do. I was i. It's hard to search for throughout history but few teams in history of had that many ninth inning leads that lead to a loss in major league history and some of it had to do with specific decisions. Trevor got gives up a Five run lead in part in a game. That was even a safe situation in in capitals. Idea was okay woking. I'm just gonna put them right back into the fire and build up his confidence and instead he just ruined his confidence and then the bullpen was scrambling and the giants look like they were. You know in contention for the first overall pick and then things got really good really smooth. Bullpen was smooth after that tyler rogers rounded in a form kayla burger. You know became kind of his go to guy in a lot of ways and he did crate and there was like you know just little pieces hardly car sia sam selman and he was just playing the organ perfectly and it was all molest and then in the final weekend of the season. Sam coon rot. All the sudden the closer and whoopsie doodles. There goes that season all they needed was one game in a blown. Save by kuehne was enough to just ruin all those sweet sweet dulcet tones from from august before. So you know it's i i don't know it. It goes either goes in both directions. You can blame him. For those specific situations but overall i think the second month the season the times bullpen was was humming along in a big part of why they were contending in the first place one at the older hitters. That we were just talking about is make stransky who surprised a lot of people in twenty thousand nineteen and then when people thought he might regress in twenty twenty instead became even better. And you wrote about that. You wrote about some of the roots of his success so interested in what you found there. He has defied the odds and broken out at a somewhat advanced age. And then also what do you do with them. Now because matt trueba just wrote something for bp about how his performance and where the giants seemed to be makes him sort of an obvious trade candidate. So as one of the prominent of those slugging san francisco giants what his his future with this team. The with mary field conundrum. Now i i. It's it's chart so he got better because he his pitch recognition got even better. You know he's rarely swinging not just at like it's not like he's stopped swinging at balls out of the strike zone. He's not swinging as much at balls into the strike zone. That don't fit his profile. You know like he. He's willing to take a good strike. He's not scared of getting to a two strike count and his whole approach is just fantastic. It's a really. He's a really fun ballplayer to watch hit especially when it gets to strikes. He's been excellent with two strikes in that might be a little bit of meraj but the the general feel of his at bats is this guy knows what he's doing now as for will continue in twenty twenty one. Twenty two to the giants don't necessarily have to make a decision because he'll be cheap. He'll be cheap well into his thirty's they're not gonna. He's not an extension candidate. They have under tin control. Sucks when he break out in your thirty you know it's just you gotta get host. I just don't think the giants need need to trade him in one reason is i don't know if they're going to get. Mvp type offers for them. You know what i mean. I don't know if another team is gonna say Here's joe adele. Here we go. We need mike yastrzemski. We're going to give you one of the best prospects in baseball. Nothing we can do about it you. Our hands are tied giant. Here have had this top ten prospect. I just don't see that happening. And once you start getting those diminishing returns is it worth it for the giants. 'cause they might be good in a year two three and stransky. It's not like he projects to be a sloth in three years. He's at he's nath. Let a guy who might to age. Well i just. I'm not sure if the fit. Is there just yet. i could be wrong. But there's no harm in keeping around a good player who makes peanuts Just in case you get good which the giants plan to be in unless another team comes over the top with some buffo trade offer. They can't refuse. I just don't see the. I think maybe we should talk about the when they expect to be good of it with this giants team because when you look at the the forty man timelines for some of their top prospects she auto in rama's you know some of these guys on bart is obviously already seen major league time but we'll get to lick his wounds and hopefully Come back stronger this year by by starting in the minors. But when you look at the the forty man timelines for some of these guys you know. They're they're twenty twenty two twenty twenty three. Some of them are even further out into twenty twenty four so what. What are your expectations for. When we might start to see some of these guys actually come up at the major league level. Because they're clearly not in a rush but they are a bad team necessarily as you noted there. they're sort of done by a really tough division. So what are your expectations there. I think it's reasonable to say twenty. Twenty three is when the cavalry comes in that. That's what it all comes together. At the same time. I think the pattern in recent years has been for teams to arrive a year early The nationals when they when they were terrible and all of a sudden you could see that that wave of prospects coming up in the whoop the good a year early. The astros did that. The cubs did that. The braves did that. The twins did that. You know these teams. You could see it coming on the rise. You could see the braves and what they were building. And you're like You know when when this team finally gets it together. They're going to be you know excellent and then a year before the was like surprise. You know we went one of the braves. The brakes went from ninety losses. To ninety wins. i think there's a chance of that enough so that you can't just punt you can't just say it's gotta be twenty twenty three. We're not even gonna bother until then just as don't you worry about it. Just get back to us in two years. You'd have to kind of set everything in motion a little bit I you have to be coffin and giants ability to find strong offensive players. You know even if they have to dumpster dived do it. Whether it's with trump's gear donovan solano alex dickerson. I i think they have a fairly good track record there. So if you just promote one of those guys affiliate romo's becomes a guy know this year or next year you surrounded with talent. Now you've got one of your young guys in then maybe luciana comes up and once you have that you might have an ozzy albee's ronald kunia situation. Were a ha like these guys are in place and everything sure looks a lot better as far as contending immediately so you would have to think it's likely to happen in twenty twenty three or even beyond but you got a plan for a year earlier. You got a plan for some surprises in the in the near term. The giants have a lot of coaches on the staff. Maybe more coaches than anyone. Although there has been kind of coaching staff inflation across the league as there's been more of an emphasis on player development even at the major league level and so the giants have what three hidden coaches. They've got to hitting coaches and an assistant hitting coach who is also director of hitting. They have a pitching coach and assistant pitching coach and a director of pitching. So it's like double redundancy at every level. They've got multiple assistant coaches including of course. They have quality assurance coach. Have you seen any obvious benefits or affects from this. I mean do players appreciate having someone helpful like the coach player. Ratio is Quite good for the giants. So has that paid off in any way. Have any players credited that you know. I'm better because There were three hidden coaches available at all times and so we were able to work with them at same time if we wanted to. Yeah i don't think that if if a player didn't like it if a player thought that is too many too many cooks in the kitchen that they would say. You know what i mean. So it's it's it's a little hard to disprove it at the same time brandon crawford and gave a lot of credit to what he did his You know when he was starting the two thousand twenty season he was just terrible. Looked lost Looked like a guy who going to get released in at some point. Not only do the giants have faith in them and sort of. Just keep with them. Which surprises the heck out of me But at some point he got better and he said know. I think the coaching and the ability to tell me exactly what was wrong. And make sure that it's not just a few minutes in the cage before a game or someone one running up with a clipboard with a screenshot and pointing to it but actual dedication to Let's see when he was a august fourteenth august fifteenth. He had a four fifty four. Oh ps at games into a sixty game season and after that for the rest of the way he was hitting like an all star. He had almost a thousand. Opiates the rest of the way in he was crediting. The the coaches for you know saying okay. You're doing this. You need to focus on this. Don't chase this look for the pitch here I'm simplifying it. He gave that a lot of credit. And when you look at the returns from him from brandon belt from players who looked lost I think the coaching could could have helped. It just makes sense with what baseball is today. It's it's really. it's so granular. And you can have a just a great hitting coach. Who's the best to communicating. But if you've got Thirteen hitters that. You have to do that for in only so much time. Maybe spread spread it out a little bit gain on. Just just get everyone all the attention they deserve. Because it's not these coaches aren't all reinventing the wheel. They're like wheel salesman they're like. I've got extra wheels on the truck you know. They don't have to come up with these genius ideas they to communicate them and make sure that they're rock solid in everyone's head. I wanted to ask about knack. Because i didn't hear a lot about how her year went. Which i actually took to be a good sign that she was just able to do her job. But i i'm curious. What your sense of of her first year with the organization. How i know. It wasn't her first year with the orbit in terms of her role on the coaching staff. How that had gone and Assuming that it went well what the organization did proactively hopefully to support her and kinda put her in a position to succeed. It's a tricky question to ask. After the pandemic season because the quotes that we have the the are done via zoom. You know they are done in a very controlled environment so if someone really had if someone was really being a jerk ball about the whole situation you know you might have heard a comment overheard in the house you might. There might have been other ways to pick up on it. I'm just gonna assume that didn't happen though. And that she did her job well and then everyone sort of appreciated it and that it was fine. I mean andy beggarly Something on her in october. And everyone's like yeah. You know she she ruled. She did what she was supposed to do. She helped out. She helped with what we asked her to do. Did a little bit more. And i think we were better because she was there. And that's that's the sense i get in. I have no reason to think that there are crumple pussies who who think that. That is not the case. So i'm just going to be like okay like this. It like like you said the lack of noise. Maybe that's an awesome thing. So giants are in a division with two pretty good teams the dodgers and padres and for fragment of your former giants fandom still lingers inside you is probably not thrilled to have two powerhouses that seem like they could be competitive forever in the same division. I'm sure a lot of chance fans feel that way. Of course. I know you can also appreciate. What makes them appealing. What makes them fun to watch. Particularly the padres. Maybe you don't have the historic and the detoured. But what does that do for the giants in the future. How do you hope to compete with these two behemoths that are among the best teams in baseball. If not the best teams in baseball now and seemed to have just an endless wave of young players and prospects coming up behind them to the point that you can't really forecast a year you know it's not like you can flip ahead to twenty twenty three or something it's like okay. That's when the dodgers window will be closed and that's when the giants will be rounding into form. Whatever here you pick like. There's no year where the giants necessarily project to be better than those teams that we can actually foresee now. So how do you go up against those teams. Yes i will be. The first thing i'll say is that i for some reason of always had a special emnity towards the padres. It's kinda like i don't know this is just me like you guessing how it was because i was like captain football papa in high school but like you know when like your door in your with another door and you get to bully that dork. Like that feeling is like what giants fans could do with the potties. It's like none of us have world series. But you know you know the dodgers the capital football team and then they just had a growth spurt. Suddenly they just now. At least you could give the padres in a you know what i mean. And then so now. They're so i don't know it's it's weird to see the padres thriving like they are and a lot of that had to do with Like how great teams are built had to do with solid development smart things and then an also like you know the white sox want james shields for whatever reason and then he turned around and there are some super team. I'm not entirely sure how that happened. It's it's hard because the giants want to do with the dodgers do as far as they wanna have the money. They've got their real estate development in across the across mccovey cove. They're putting up all these buildings and they're expecting to be not just a baseball team but also real estate magnates and and once you have that you're the easiest way to get people to buy condos it and store fronts Near the ballpark is to have a reason to come to the ballpark so they should spend money on the team. They want to be rich. They wanna be powerful. They want to have a conveyor belt of prospects and develop the players in. That's the plan that you can't really worry about the dodgers you'd have to get that conveyor belt functioning you have to get that steady stream like oh i guess. We've got cody bellinger. Oh wow. mvp okay great You have to do that. You have to have players. Like alex redo goud. Who is worth a mookie. Betts in some teams is. I guess you have to just get those prospects up and allows you to do everything and allows you to spend on. Trevor bauer Allows you to spend on eric hosmer and once you have that conveyor belt it's hard to stop is rigged underpay. The players were the best. I mean you guys know this. The players in their twenties or the best players though the healthiest players. And they're the cheapest players in once you get those guys into the system and they start paying off. It's just a perpetual motion machine. You can keep doing it And you can keep you know given newbies now to the pirates or whomever right. Well you know how we end these things by demanding that you make win total prediction. So how many wins for the giants in twenty twenty one. Okay okay so last year. You did this and i think i did like forty. Yeah and the joke was that the season would be cut short because you nailed it. Yeah so a lot's riding on this grant. I'm gonna have to say two hundred because they're going to play so many more games than we expect and it's going to be all right so let's see this season. I'm gonna go eighty. I think they will fight to get to five hundred. I think they'll do better than some people. Give them credit for They will be in the thick of second wildcard race. Later than some people think might not win more games than they lose but will be an overall. Hey not too bad year all right not too bad is something that a lot of us would be very happy to have you. Were like really sick when we talked to you last year too and i might have been like her aunt. You have covert and we're like no he doesn't i just Wanted me the whole year. So i'm glad you're well now i was. I've been feeling badly about it. So yeah no i. That was after. I flew home from arizona. So i flew from san francisco arizona. Back to san francisco. I sick with a fever and it was like a respiratory illness. you know. yeah. I wasn't too sick you know but i i was. I was pretty sick and Yeah no i probably had the darn covid but you know. There's no way to figure that out. Now yeah. I missed that episode. I forget why was away. But i was listening to you all and you were talking about how conscious you were of touching your face and how you were trying very hard not to touch your face. Early cova days. I had my thumb on the mute button on my mic. Because i was coughing like at all times like this was about five days into it and i was just sort of like mute apart brian. They unmuted fun times fun times. Well glad you're healthy now. All right well you can read the grant writing about the giants at the athletic. You can find him on twitter at grant brisby you can hear him co hosting the giants podcast at the athletic bags and brisby. He has brisby. Thank you very much grant. Thank you very much have me on. I always enjoy. That will do it for today. Thanks as always for listening. You can't support effectively wild on the patriot. I go into patriot. Dot com slash effectively. Wild appalling listeners have already signed up and pledge some small month the amount to help keep the podcast going and get themselves access to some perks. Dan david firemen. James edward morgan bryan gold geier and dzhavadav missouri. Thanks to all of. You can join our facebook group at facebook dot com slash group. Sasha collectively wild. You can read review and subscribe to affect. Be wild on itunes on spotify and other podcasts platforms. Keep your questions and comments and meg coming via email at podcast grass dot com or via the patriot missile system. If you are a supporter. Thanks phil higgins for his editing assistance. We will be back with another episode soon. Talk to you then then. Just good note. Good no thing. Is this your first time. The inaugural podcast. I'm excited whom done this one hundred times. Leave it all in working out the kinks sir. We've been my muted silence record. Okay try that again.