19 Episode results for "Sally Ann"

Season 4 - Episode 18

They Walk Among Us

37:20 min | 11 months ago

Season 4 - Episode 18

"Welcome to season for episode eighteen of they walk among us. A podcast dedicated to U K true crime listener caution is advised. This episode contains adult themes and descriptions that some listeners may find distressing in November ember fifty nine thousand nine hundred seventy. One is a diet the Leslie John. Will Never Forget it was the day that Queen Elizabeth the second came to Swinton a town located in the southwest of England along with Jacob Edinburgh. The parrot come to inaugurate the Civic Center the development that had reportedly cost around seven and a half million pounds the M. Ford tonight year providing the town with links to London on South West to Wales bringing with it's an influx of people and money reigning monarch hadn't visited the area since the mid twenties twenty so as the rain felon that cloudy day crowds could be seen lining the streets of region circus with people waving flags and holding balloons loons hoping to catch a glimpse of the quaint as she addressed the public from a Standing Theatre Square they watched in all oblivious is to the constant rainfall as the heavens opened while it was the day that sticks in the minds of many in swindon for Leslie John. She would would remember it for a very different reason on November fifth a daughter. Sally Ann was born raised in Swindon sally-anne. Sally is a mother with cooler at a happy chocolate much just like any other youngster at the time sally-anne would ride her bike around the estate enjoying walks in the park and family picnics. She was especially especially close to her mother. Choose a happy child but in Herat less than she grew rebellious the Mo- her mother tried to put her on the straight right to narrow the MO- sally-anne wouldn't listen a mother would like to say her door to simply influenced by the wrong people whilst still remained close to her mother the past struggle to see eye-to-eye in Harare early Twenties Sally Eliane supported herself financially through own street sex work in Swindon Leslie. Her mother found it more remote. Challenging to come to terms is with her daughter's decision on how she made a living but they still remained in contact. She loved daughter even if she didn't agree with the choices she she might the time. Sally Ann had a park and developed a close circle of friends often seen working around Manchester road. Only a short distance from Swindon train station. The tax seeds which operate outside. She was remembered and by her friends as kind and quick to laugh. They said that one day she sought to build the new life possibly with family but during one evening in September timber nineteen ninety-five she vanished the police related spoke with a boyfriend and visited her flat on Kim Ridge Clive. Oh I've seen north swindon where she was staying but came up empty handed it did not appear as she had taken any of her belongings and police not possible. She may have simply decided to build a new life for herself somewhere else. Either abroad will still within the country it was reported that she was last seen around Aylesbury Street and station road at the time she was wearing a black jacket short pink ninety style dress black foiling socks and black shoes following a national appeal over the period of more than two months with Leslie John. Frequently in his daughter was never tracked down. Thousands of people go missing every year but it is almost impossible to pinpoint exact figures as some of those people do not have a support system of family or friends looking for them. Sally Salon John Was Twenty three when she disappeared however with no new clues she was declared missing person not seem to be the end in Devon incredibly tragic story. A Christopher Halliwell was arrested in two thousand eleven for the murder of Sean Callaghan during his arrest he admitted to killing Becky Gordon Edwards Woods picked up outside the destiny and design nightclub in his taxi. The start of two thousand three the venue closed is the doors the following year and it was only a short distance around a quarter of a mile southeast from Swindon train station and his taxi ranks Alexandra Road Aylesbury Street and Manchester Road but a few minutes walk away while Halliwell would not face justice at the time time for the murder of Becky Gordon Edwards Z. wasn't cautioned. They'll give an access to a solicitor. The police now had line of inquiry detectives and experts Ormond show that he had killed other women in the period between becky and Shawn's mud two thousand and three to two thousand and eleven this led to the media media looking into all of the missing persons cases throughout swindon for those individuals who boasts some resemblance to the to mud young women either appearance will circumstance circumstance foam a detective superintendant full show who obtained the confession from Hollywood night to spoke with the media and said that he would be astonished astonished if Hollywood did not kill Sally at because he noted that Hollywood was known to consult with having live nearby Becky Gordon Edwards had made a living a sex worker as did sally-anne and they were both in their early twenties when they were last seen David Wilson a professor of criminology at Birmingham University was lighter interviewed by The Guardian newspaper and spoke about highly will. He said there was a significant gap before he killed Sean O'Callaghan Nazis very unusual the question he posed in prison the how many people you need to kill before being considered a serial killer is important. A lot of killers fantasize about that they boy books about serial say real mudder. They become fascinated with the phenomenon in defending himself during his trial. Hollywood revealed his narcissism. He will love speculation about what else he is done. If I was to have a cookie cutter and put it on the mass of male humanity and say this was the Cookie Akiko shape for a serial killer it would be him speculation in the press wouldn't be seriously raised until two thousand and sixteen off the Halliwell was convicted of Becky Gordon Edwards Woods mud the police will making these connections much earlier the case was reviewed by detectives in two thousand and thirteen and during in November two thousand fourteen it was reported that the case into the disappearance of Sally Ann was upgraded to a murdering quarry though her body had still I'm not been found after a detailed review of circumstances. It was thought the Salon John was no longer alive. Detective Inspector Tim Corner From Wilt She as major crime investigation team spoke with press and said twenty years is a long time for a person to be missing and we are now working on the theory that sally was murdered on or shortly after the eighth of September nineteen ninety-five we are now working on the movements taken by Sally that night shortly afterwards there were a number of sightings of her that evening and she was last seen near to station road in the Police Service the way we investigate and methods Ben no resemblance to nineteen years ago the changes in the way police investigators this prompted a review which has brought up a number of new lines of inquiry in relation to Sally's disappearance though significant new lines of inquiry are being being investigated and on now progressing the detective stressed however the reinvestigation was in no way linked to who will peration Manila an investigation into the potential criminal activities of Christopher Halliwell and is other possible victims during this period a team of forensic officers at turned up at his former home in the same area where Salman lived before her disappearance. Only a five minute walk away. The price equipped to points out that it wasn't incredible coincidence that the efforts to find Sally Ann's killer were running in tandem with an unrelated unrelated investigation into Christopher Hollywood is the news of the reinvestigation broke. Several people contacted the detectives detectives working the case. Ds Corner said in the last twenty four hours we have been contacted by several people who knew sally back in Nineteen Nineteen ninety-five. It's been courage ing the number of people that have come forward who knew sally on the days up to a disappearance who have given us information information which avoided some interesting lines of inquiry which we pursuing mall. Das Corner would not offer any new details of what new lines of inquiry will being followed he did set him detectives would dedicated to finding sally-anne with a number of offices visiting both Aisles B Street and station road moved near to where she was lost saying Sally and also often spent time on Manchester road which the media writ cooled Swindon's Red Light district so there is one source which places her swindon train station on the morning of September ninth looking at a timetable now this sighting remains unconfirmed and does not form part of the official time line. It is most likely a witness I just seen someone who bore resemblance to Sally-anne a police constable Louise Cocoon scare addressed the local press spoke of the risk posed by sally-anne in the years leading up to her disappearance and the risks sufficed by those people in her position. Today there is no denying that sex workers be that's on street sex workers or those working in brothels offals find themselves in a situation which carries significant risks they all meeting complete strangers both on foot and in vehicles and often being driven driven to secluded areas without anyone else knowing where they are a few days later. Solomon's mother gave a heartfelt plea for information disappear nineteen years ago and I still think of Eh day no just the as everyone did wish you could be a part still with the thoughtless from Gabriel Cross police station. Leslie Johns spoke about her daughter and said she was a bright and beautiful girl. He could make anyone smile. She had a lot of friends in swindon and many people knew her. I still cannot believe the all these years. No one has come forward to say sally. Is We really want to know what happened to Sally. someone in Swindon has this information so I'm pleading with you to go to the police and all these years uh-huh lives change and so do friendships relationships another police want to hear from anyone who knew sally urged them to come forward they may. I know how spoken to the place at the time. She disappeared but neither they might be able to. This small bit of information might be the key to give us closure and finally knowing what happened to our girl won't bring her back but it will ease suffering. Please come forward and help us find sally. She was very are- bright and bubbly girl said lots of friends not two sisters. She was just very popular. Show was was at school. Will I always saw when they told me those years ago. She was dad was just a feeling I've always had a neither do neither do nine. I'm very grateful to them for to start an solo for again so hopefully we we all can get closure one way or the other but my first. INSTI- instincts all those years ago when she was that don't ask me why it's just soon. I'm hoping that she's she is alive. I mean not it's all our hopes that she's alive but if she's ooh is the spring ring of two thousand fifteen approached from the operation maestro incident rate a team of offices dedicated to tracking down sally-anne continue to visit all of her known acquaintances trying to locate anyone she might have been close to during the time. She disappeared the investigating officer offices. DIY CORNA said the difficulty we are finding. Is that a lot of people we would like to speak to a no longer around for various reasons. Some some of died and others have left the area. Not is the main problem with investigating some things so many years later investigations are still ongoing. We we have a team of detectives. Actively working on this and conducting extensive enquiries is progressing well but in cases such as this yes which are twenty years old they will naturally take some time before it is concluded with Operation Maestro in full swing night to that year police would arrive at salons form home on Kim Orig- close in ninth swindon. The property was located in a cul de sac believed to be salons final place of residence before she disappeared two decades on police are back at the flat that was once the home of sally-anne John a police tent and tape telling the public detectives believed this could be where vital clues. We'll be found to explain one of which is most baffling crimes as what is number ten. Kim Rich close officers were examining Garish to the rear bringing in sniffer sniff adults from south Wales to aid their work Detective Chief Inspector Jeremy Carter addressing the waiting press spoke about salons hands full harmon said though it was searched as part of the missing person inquiry which was initially launched in nineteen ninety five the property will now be forensically originally search by specialist offices. The search will concentrate on which may be related to sell or may assist being better. Thank thank you we will have a mobile piece unit stationed in the area. Would you perish members of the public who may have any information regarding salons disappeared appeared on information regarding the property to come and visit offices appeal posters distributed in the local area as well as with areas that we understand sally-anne was familiar with including station road and Aylesbury Street when she was lost C. D. C. Icahn took over the investigation from Dr Corner there would since moved on to another police department. He was determined to find answers. If in a lot of advances dances in a science cetera during the twenty year period since she initially went missing hoping through the use of those techniques we will make some form of breakthrough. I I mean resolute in my intention to find whoever was responsible for the murder. Sally and I'm absolutely determined that they brought to justice and we will leave no stolen turned in achieving that goal over the period of several days a d. town search of the premises was undertaken along with the use so blood dogs and ground penetrating radar several items were removed to be examined to Forensic Laboratory detectives tibs remained hopeful and were quote feeling increasingly positive following the said she's at the property the flat neither had been search previously previously when Sally and I disappeared but not in as much detail police were optimistic they might turn up something perhaps a personal item that was thought lost or DNA evidence which could be linked to the missing woman's disappearance after a three day search of salons former home police made a series of arrests three men to in their early the fifties from swindon and another so in his early fifties from shipping were arrested on suspicion of kidnapping and murder. They were held held in custody for twenty four hours but will bail the following day as police continued their investigation Leslie. Jones said the arrests had given her hope that she would get answers won't ship police a keeping their cards close to their chests. They're not saying what new piece of information what new lead has from them to reinvestigate the disappearance improbable death of sally-anne John but they all being clear about one thing they say they don't believe that she was killed by the Swindon Murderer Eric Chris Halliwell. Even though at the time of her disappearance when she was working along these streets he was living just a couple of roads while there are reported numbers of attacks on sex workers they are likely vastly underreported as those women do not have have the protections that would usually be afforded in documented work. The risk of being assaulted while working is extraordinarily high in wanting stints to sex work who chose to remain anonymous had been picked up from Manchester Road and taken back to the home of fifty four year old Barry's of Anwr on county road the woman was brutally right and assaulted she chose to speak up and reported the incident to police the case went to trial during September. Two Thousand and sixteen and seven row was found guilty after the weeklong trial detective constable Matt Lewis praised the victim for bravely speaking up quite showed great courage by the victim in coming to the court and indeed electing to give evidence in the courtroom Rava Vanover the video link she showed extreme bravery in doing so she should be he commended for that every pass and has the right to be protected by the law and that includes everybody whatever their lifestyle I would like to particularly thank the Nielsen Trust in supporting the victim through what has been a very traumatic time for her Barry's van Roy was sentenced to eight years in prison and would be placed on the sex offenders register for life outreach worker for the charity Nielsen. Trust you support those people affected it by addiction and the multiple and complex needs to come with it night to spike of how these women fund their addiction turning to sex what she said set worry if I see these women a warrior if I don't I fight risk every day. I take it on the Chin and move on there is much violence against these women. I also fun were Ooh That would be little movement on the case of Salim's disappearance with the three men who were arrested arrested Romania on bio they had been reporting to the police station each week for most of two thousand and sixteen. DC ICON to would tell halvor poses the type of the last nine months the three men arrested on suspicion of the kidnap murder of Sally and John at remained on police bail pending ending further inquiries noodle said going to mention the team of specialist officers from the major crash investigation team who working tirelessly on the Kayce following the said she's at Sally Ann's former home in knife but in spite of the arrests the men would never ultimately be H. charged doing separate two thousand seventeen police least would arrive at one of the former homes of Christopher Halliwell on broad street in Swindon property was located two and a half miles west of nine but only five minutes walk from the location. West sally-anne was lost saint along with forensic tents which covered the entry points to the prophecy. Take blacktop Poland been type two crossing gate placed in front of an adjoining alleyway security guards stood outside to ensure now now unauthorized personnel access deed the high will the surrounding area. We'll police would not discuss the detail of the ongoing investigation with the countless unless reporters and photographers monitored the scene day and night several pipes were Lincoln. The search is at the address to Sally Ann's disappearance. ooh. The search of Honeywell's former home was not without incident and when Sharon Thomas arrived at the scene and started to shout abuse the forensic officers working at the house the forty six year old who was was a family friend to one of Hollywood's victims lit incense sticks and began writing something on pieces of paper she then through the Piper at the forensic team moving in and out of the property Thomas Cruelty Halliwell royalty and hell on a nearby wall and was protesting that she had no faith in the the actions of the police. She began to hinder the office's ability to do that job. She was arrested when in her cell she was given food but through the triumph of the will she eventually appeared before magistrate charged with obstructing a police officer and criminal damage damage relating to the tea tray. She launched across her cell Sharon. Thomas was told Multiple Times to stop shouting throughout the short. What hearing a she claimed she was victim of police brutality. She said the only reason that she threw her dinner at the wool was that she didn't like. Mike Lamb chairman. Thomas pleaded guilty to buy charges in the month later on March twentieth two thousand seventeen seventeen an episode of Crimewatch ed which featured a segment the focused on the disappearance and possible murder of sally and John. The programming to view those involved in the case and retrace salons lost nine movements a mother Lesley John was interviewed. She said it's a horrible feeling you'll do to may have been murdered because you can't do anything about it. I just want her found a really we do want to found. I want to did this to be counted for like to know where she is so we can put it to rest and then this whole night happy. Iva Solomon was last seen on Friday September eighth nineteen ninety-five she said to off with a group of friends around nine PM and police understood. They wanted to work for a few hours until later that night just before eleven p the N. Sally Ann was seen on Alexandra road by two Police Officers Police Constable Cornelius and police constable wet up to this point information about the offices citing not been reported in the media wasn't the only new information police ace revealed a postcard the looked to have been written by Sally and was sent to a friend of hers stamped with the date Monday October second nineteen ninety five and implied that she was in London writing in blue ballpoint pen it rent de Clive filtered toed right as I heard you've been missing me and the you around the worried that something had happened to me as you can see in London now but no one compares to you big boy love. Sally printed on the white side of the postcard in the top left is London in capitals and Tower Bridge Belie like that in the bottom left is printed a one zero one the date the postcard was sent stamped in the top right along with the initials initials t be in the top corner Thomas Banacci limited London. He's printed below that and further down is what looks to be a company. Okay for story a DC owning the company's website which is in Italia mentions. They produce illustrated books tourist guides. It's museum guides postcards and souvenirs. It wasn't until the review that police analyzed the postcard a handwriting expert compared the writing on the card against salons address book and founded the postcard looked to have been penned by someone else police least considered that this person was somehow connected to Salvia either. They was someone who had been involved in her murder or they might have been forced to write on the card on did that. US on Crimewatch Detective Sergeant Don pocock understood that a great deal all of time had passed but appeal to view is asking for any information that might I in the inquiry voicing his optimism. The detective would like to say we hope that the appeal on Crimewatch will encourage anyone he might have known sally all those years ago and has information. They have not yet reported to police nice to get in touch he continued. It has been nearly twenty two years since sally disappeared. I appreciate this is a long time. No doubt friendships relationships and lives will have changed dramatically since then but if you have any information about what happened to sally it could be see the missing piece in our Jigsaw. A reward of twenty five thousand pounds was also offered by Wiltshire police upon conviction of the person or persons responsible for Sally Ann's mud or the successful recovery of Salomon's body mm-hmm the link to Chris Halliwell was raised on Crimewatch and the detective said he would keep an open mind in two weeks before the episode of Crimewatch shed a friend of Salomon's coincidentally really all so-called sally-anne gave an interview with the Mirror newspaper. The two women together shortly before Sally and disappeared a namesake left swindon five months earlier she became pregnant and did not want to continue earning money as a sex worker. Hello remembering her friend. The now mother of four said everyone used to call us the two salons when we weren't working. We'd go to the pop and do Karaoke have fun. The fighter of sally-anne in the red top smiling was taken by me every time it pops up on the news. It brings it all back juice such a bubbly happy girl choose funny in a way smiley still can't believe she is gone the last time the two sally and spoke Sulaiman's French Roy to persuade her to leave swindon to sally-anne wanted eighty to stay to be closed to her mother. It was only when she had lied to begun a new life and had a new job that she was contacted by offices during September two two thousand and sixteen Miss Sally and terribly she said but she was part of my old life when police told me she he was missing and they were treating it as a mud felt sick. I had no inkling I can't get it out of my head. It is haunting me want want to help find her so she can be laid to rest the fact the two women shed the name and lived at the same residence was not the only connection. I had after being told the friend had disappeared likely murdered the other sally-anne began researching the case and slowly realised the Christopher Halliwell was a previous client of us like she did not know. I know him by name at the time. Hollywood reportedly picked her up on Manchester Road and driven to a secluded spot is the pay became intimate. Halliwell put his hands around Earth right feeling threatened. She told Halliwell that she wasn't uncomfortable and got out of his car. She walked back towards Manchester. Right and Halliwell drive off the other sally-anne. Lianne has since spoken to a number of other women who Hollywood pipe for sex in the swindon area quite. I said it was frightening because it could have easily been in them. Also another interesting connection is Hollywood reportedly been paying Becky Gordon Edwards what was nine as a stay in you think this would involve staying the night with him rather than her looking for other clients sound liens friend was confident that Halliwell had been doing the same with her. Ceylon would go into approach the police to give them this further detail about Hollywood however in her words they didn't seem interested. She was told there was no link. Detective Stephen Full Scher and Sal Leon's friend were not the only ones to raise links between sally-anne. John and Halliwell Karen Edwards Becky Gordon Edwards mother also highlighted the possibility that Halliwell might have been involved in a book she had written cool the killer's confession she brings up the links not timely between Halliwell and Sally on June but also highly wells potential ties to Claudia Lawrence a chef who disappeared from you can two thousand nine Karen for the voice tough frustrations with Wiltshire police as they contacted her asking if she had withheld information you former detective Stephen Full Shirt also written a book titled Catching a serial killer in which included details that Karen Edwards had obtained and will try to find more information about her daughter's killer Christopher Halliwell who at the time could not be prosecuted. Karen had in fact passed this information to ship police but heard nothing and only gave it to falter. He in her words seem to want onto listen. The years have post but the grief has not Ceann worked in the Manchester Road area. SWINTON's Red Light district. She was last seen alive on September. The the Eighth Nineteen ninety-five Hollowell admitted murdering Swindon Office Worker Sean O'Callaghan in two thousand eleven and investigations continue to see if he this responsible for others please. So where are we now. Despite several public appeals three the arrests and the countless theories about what might have happened Sally and Joan Remains Missing and detectives are almost certain she has been murdered if you or anyone you know has any information about the disappearance of Sally-anne John. You can contact crime stoppers in the UK on zero eight hundred hundred triple five triple one or visit their website Crime Still Pays Hyphen U K dot Org. Thank you for listening and special. Thanks to our pay. Aintree on supporters details on this episode can be found in the show nights who were on our website right. They walk among US PODCAST DOT COM. You can follow us on twitter the T. W. A. You underscore podcast who follow us on instagram and facebook under they walk among US podcast

N. Sally Ann swindon Christopher Halliwell Sally Salon John Swindon train station Hollywood murder Sally Ann Becky Gordon Edwards Leslie John Sally Eliane Swindon Leslie Becky Gordon Edwards Woods Police Service US Swinton Iva Solomon Gabriel Cross police station obstructing a police officer Queen Elizabeth
Murder of Sally Anne Bowman

Murder Minute

18:18 min | 7 months ago

Murder of Sally Anne Bowman

"Welcome to murder minute today. The story of up and coming model Sally and Bozeman murder order in England. But I your true crime headlines in Alabama woman who went missing after texting a CO worker. That she he might be in trouble was found dead in a shallow grave behind a vacant house. Fifteen miles from where she was last seen. Twenty nine year old Peyton Houston was last seen on December twentieth at a local bar in Birmingham where she had gone out with some coworkers. An eyewitness saw her leave the bar voluntarily with two men around ten forty five pm about two hours later. She texted one of the CO workers who had been at the bar with her that night and told that co worker that she did did not know the men she was with and might be in trouble she was not seen or heard from. After that and reward of ten thousand dollars was offered for information leading to the woman's whereabouts. Her body was discovered after investigators received a tip about the backyard and Huey town south west of Birmingham neighbors said the dilapidated property had been vacant for some time. Houston's body was found wrapped in fabric and buried in a shallow grave the homes muddy backyard. An autopsy has been completed but Houston's cause of death has not been released at this time. No arrests arrests have been made in the case and the investigation continues in Ohio. The trial begins this week for Jessica and Daniel. Grove's core charged with murder in the death of their infant son. The baby was found last July at the bottom of thirty foot. Well on the couple's property and outweigh outweigh Ohio. Seventy five miles south of Columbus. His body was wrapped in plastic bags with duct tape around them and had been weighted down with rocks and anchors. The baby boy named Dylan had been placed in the custody of child protective services. After being born addicted to drugs last January anuary. His father Daniel Groves was able to complete the reunification requirements. Ordered by child. Welfare agents and Dylan was returned to his custody. Authorities authorities grew worried when groves started missing doctor's appointments and court dates and they attempted to perform a welfare check at the family's home. The couple attempted to flee Lee and were arrested after an hours long standoff authorities found forty two thousand dollars in stolen items in the home and in subsequent searches of the property. Hardy they eventually found dealing groves body at the bottom of the well. It is believed that he died in March. An autopsy found that he had multiple bone fractures and drugs drugs in his system. Jessica and Daniel Groves are facing murder charges as well as charges for kidnapping endangering. Children tampering hampering with evidence interference with custody gross abuse of a corpse and felonious assault a twenty a year old South Carolina. Man was shot and killed while attempting to protect his mother. During a domestic dispute. Police were called to the home in the city of Anderson South Carolina China near one A.. M. When they arrived they found twenty year old. Landis cosby with gunshot wound to his chest police and ems tried to revive the a young man on the scene but their efforts were unsuccessful. Police say that four people in the home witnessed the shooting including a six-year-old child. His mother's boyfriend forty year old Rashard Smith was arrested and charged with murder and possession of a weapon during the commission of a violent crime. He's being held without bond as he awaits his first court appearance. Those were your true crime headlines The next step the murder of sally and Bowmen but first a quick break. Welcome back to murder the minute today. The Story Sally and Bowman's murder Sally on Bowman was living the dream of many young women by her eighteenth birthday way she'd attended Brit school ever stages British Performing Arts and Technology Institute in Croydon England. The same school amy Wine House and Katie Malloch attended the youngest of four girls. She fit the baby of the family. archetype asserted by psychologists pretty well. She was highly social social confidence creative and keen on being the center of attention. She loved dancing singing and entertaining supporting these passions. With part time work work as a hairdresser and barmaid she was also an up and coming model having become the face of swatch watches and drawing comparisons to supermodel title Kate Moss for the entertainment industry. It seems she had it all talents. Glamorous looks drive and that it factor that can really make a career. sally-anne would have loved to hit the big time and many believed. She was well on her way instead. Her bright light went out forever. You're on September twenty fifth two thousand five the evening before less than two weeks. After her eighteenth birthday she was eager to take her a passport out for the first time to prove age and legally buy a drink years later her mother. Linda told the sun that she remembers that night. As though it were yesterday your day. sally-anne sat eating chips. She said wearing a pink gown and slippers and asked her sister Danielle for a ride to a club in Croydon before they left. Salient stood in the doorway looking back she said thanks for having me here. Mom You don't have to think me I'm your mother. Linda replied sally-anne reached the front sidewalk. She called back to her mom that she loved her. That almost seems like a for telling scene from a movie. Now the kind of makes you wonder if two characters we'll see each other again. Linda told her daughter she loved her too and reminded her to call home. Should she need a ride later. She would wait and wait for that. Call after leaving her mom's House Sally and spent the next few hours clubbing with friends. Threatens at one point meeting up with another one of her sisters Nicole sometime after midnight. She called her boyfriend of two years. Lewis SPROXTON and who was out with friends to. She asked him to pick her up and drive her to her place something. He was far from pleased with the couple. Had A history spats and repeated breakup and make-up's not an uncommon pattern teenage romances. That night they leaned. Toward the break-up upside Lewis did as she requested though leaving his friends to pick her up all the way to Sally Ann's apartment they argued. They were both jealous of the other and suspected infidelities parked outside the building. The fight carried on for close to ours once they had both both had enough she stepped out of the car and stormed off twitter. Place Louis sped away minutes later. Someone grabs sally-anne and plunged a knife into her body. Neighbors heard screams but chuck them up to a common dispute or sounds from. Fox's that were prevalent in that area at night. They looked out their windows. Noting nothing suspicious but the attack was far from over. The man kept on stabbing an biting the young woman before raping her lifeless body several hours later just after dawn. A passer-by spotted her remains and called for help. Police arrived to a scene so horrific they decided to take polaroid's to show neighbors for identification purposes rather than having them look at the scene straight on without hesitation neighbors named the slain woman as Sally. Anne Bowman the aspiring model and singer. The daughter sister and friend soon after Linda Bowman opened her front door to find police. Officer Stuart Cundy standing on her steps. Did she have a daughter named sally-anne her I thought was. What have they done now? She later told Scottish TV presenter. Christine uh she knew sally-anne had been out having fun with our POWs and sisters if only it were a matter of simple mischief. Cundy didn't waste any Time staying true to his commitment to be front and transparent with loved ones of the deceased their daughter had been stabbed to death. Authorities described the knife attack is controlled but frenzied and one that created some of the most awful defense wounds. They had seen all made worse by the horrific indignities of postmortem rape the patch of sidewalk were sally-anne took her last breaths soon filled with flowers including a wreath from her grandmother. Other olive with a note that read for our beautiful granddaughter. She will always be in our hearts once. The investigation began. Sally Ann's family only made a public appeal for help in solving the case leads poured in providing detectives with fifty names and one hundred fifty phone calls with tips to consider. TV footage. showed the young model chatting with friends at a bar a few hours before the attack which was estimated to have occurred between four fifteen for twenty that morning just after her boyfriend Lewis sped away as is typical with murder cases. Romantic partners are often a suspect. And and the first to be questioned. There's even a term for the murder of a girlfriend or wife exor aside and a US Department of Justice Studies show that eighty. Three three percent of spouse murderers are men. When police approached Louis the day after the murder he assumed it had to do with the argument? He and Sally Ann had the previous night. It wouldn't have been the first time. Authorities were made aware of their bickering but was his jealousy a motive absolutely not according according to him through four straight days of questioning Lewis never shifted from his claim that he had nothing to do with the attack. The relationship Asian. She wasn't perfect. He said but they cared about each other deeply. After a quarrel. He expected that they would soon things and carry on as usual. When DNA analysis showed that the semen discovered in Salomon's body belong to someone other than Lewis he was removed as a suspect from there? The case went cold for nine months. Sally Ann's Family Having to not only grieve but wonder who had been responsible for the murder aware that that the killer remained free living his life while they're beloved was stolen then on June fifteenth. Two thousand six a thirty six year old man. The Mark Dixie got into a brawl after watching England play in the World Cup on TV at a pub by this time taking DNA samples for minor offenses was standard as police questioned. dixie about the bar fights. The man broke into tears which seemed odd until his DNA sample came up as a perfect match with a sample salience case. He was promptly arrested and charged with her rape and murder his coworkers at pub where he worked as a chef were stunned to hear his crimes and sadistic history. According to the Sun Dixie had three children and girlfriend who described him as the life of the Party when he was taking drugs but dramatic mood swings often followed. Because dixie refused to admit to the murder. Sally Ann's family had to endure trial hearing painstaking details of the assault. dixie ended up admitting to and detailing how he had raped Sally Ann's corpse corpse which prompted her mother to flee the courtroom tears. He also fantasized about a sex killing earlier on and masturbated over newspaper images of sally-anne. Uh He filmed this act and the video was used as evidence against him. If only someone had found that film learned his obsessions sooner. It's difficult to say whether Dixie felt compelled to murder the young woman or if he killed primarily to feed his perceived need to have sex with corpses. which would be considered? Did Philip homicide while. NECROPHILIA is associated with a particular disorder. Some necrophiles have been diagnosed with conduct disorder and antisocial social personality disorder on neither one justifies violence. They might help. Explain dixies lack of empathy or remorse. People with anti-social personality disorder also called socio apathy often violate the law. They lie act impulsively and have problems with alcohol and on drugs if our when they harm others they feel virtually nothing except satisfaction as long as it helps them get their way. The trial trial also meant that to victims of dixies. Earlier crimes would have to relive the brutality. He had imposed on them. The man's checkered past included -cluded conviction for robbery during which he mugged a woman at knifepoint and indecent exposure to salts for which he was sentenced to two years of probation he was also deported in one thousand nine hundred nine after being convicted of assault and later accused of masturbating in front of a woman in a phone booth the day Af Sally Ann's murder. dixie stayed overnight at a friend's home near her apartment during the day leading up to the murder. He celebrated his thirty Fifth Birthday. Stay down in copious amounts of drugs and booze. It's believes that. He attacked a woman motorists in the area about forty minutes before he killed her. Then just after four fifteen. Am neighbors heard those screams. Prosecutors alleged that Dixie hid near her apartment watching and waiting leading like an animal prepared pounds while she and Lewis argued then didn't hesitate to make his move the jury consisting of seven women and and five men found Dixie guilty of all charges his punishment would be life in prison with a minimum of thirty four served years during the sentencing. The judge said to the killer no words of mine about what you have done can remotely match the ones you've heard today from Mrs Bowman I I shall only say that what you did. That night was so awful and repulsive that I do not propose to repeat it. Your consequent conduct shows you had not the slightest remorse. Moore's for what you had done nearly nine years later in January of two thousand fifteen. dixie wrote a letter to the police stating that she wanted to tell how the truth nearly nine years later in January of two thousand fifteen. dixie wrote a letter to police stating that he wanted to tell the truth truth about what happened to San. He ended up confessing to two more attacks too including severe sexual assault when he was just sixteen gene. The wrong man Ramana vander dozen had been charged with an imprisoned for those crimes. No outsiders can know whether he confessed because he wanted credit or if deep inside he had some amount of remorse after all skeptics and psychoanalyst's might assume that earlier regardless if detectives had caught him back then sally-anne might still be alive dixies three page letter detailing his added crimes was as used by Romano's lawyer for an appeal. Sally Ann's MOMS supported his appeal and Romano Center message of gratitude. In two thousand fourteen fourteen. She told mail online. She was absolutely appalled that her daughter's life could have been saved with greater diligence for authorities. And that quote an innocent man. Ed spent eleven years of sixteen year sentence in prison for a crime. He did not do. After the verdict of Sally Ann's murder trial was read her her father. Paul Bowman spoke on the family's behalf. The last two and a half years have been tortuously painful. An immensely difficult he said. I do not think we could have gone through it without the love and support that has been hugely available from family and friends. I hope that now sally-anne can rest in peace and those affected so deeply by untimely and brutal death can be afforded at least a chance to begin to grieve in earnest and he shared an emotional a message for his daughter. Sally-anne you may have been taken from us but rest assured you will forever be missed a never forgotten in the words of the song your heart will go on outside the courtroom. Sally Ann's mother. Linda spoke about immense pain in her heart and said in her life seemed to end with her daughters. All she wanted was to hold her again to smell her perfume and say to her everything. She never had a chance to as they drove away. She played a recording sally-anne singing the celine dion song. She had the singing voice of an angel and decide which it's very fitting now. This has been murder minutes for true crime anytime. Download the murder minute APP or follow us on Instagram at murder. Minute for exclusive content intent and early access find the show on Himalayas.

Sally Ann murder Linda Bowman Mark Dixie Lewis SPROXTON Daniel Groves Houston Ohio Birmingham Jessica Anne Bowman assault Louis England Peyton Houston rape Bozeman Alabama co Columbus
The One with New Potties, Podies, and Parties

That's So Iggy

1:01:14 hr | 7 months ago

The One with New Potties, Podies, and Parties

"Hi everyone and welcome back to another episode of that. So agee podcast created by five Italian Greyhound MOMS who talk about their little alien dogs and exactly what it means to be a they really quick. Sorry see for your editing. Why don't we all introduce ourselves? We are and who our jobs are and what our instagram handovers alphabetical order. Tags ceasing number. Yeah so am I I then yes. Sexy Hey I'm C. C.. And my dogs Are Piper and Norman Argus. I should say Norman and Piper. There's is a bad they're tag is at Norman underscore end underscore Piper birth. And they're just a lot. Norman is known worldwide as the goodest dog Gabar. He is perfect he is the professor and Piper is known pretty much worldwide as has extra the definition thereof She's a squirrel killer. She's fast as lightning and has a mind of around around for sure. Is that her barking now. That wasn't here. That's Percy three floors down Try to avoid there is actually so inserting okay. Hi My name is Desmond. Aiko Bite Das- usually I usually am Percy underscore on the Hudson's mom. I pretend to live in New York. We live in Jersey Percy. She is most famous for falling off a balcony months and surviving in wearing cardigan sweaters. Really well and being a little needy eighty I mean. I'm just saying that because he was just whining. So maybe there's five people in this house. He's like MacAulay Culkin home alone. Where the houses flow and he saw a problem? It's further but he's engaged very that's nice. Sorry forgot he's engaged. I'm Margo and I'm Mussa maples. Mom and you can find them at Portland. PIGGIES IT'S P. O.. So our T. L. A. N. D. I. G. G. Y. S. Mabel is probably best known for spending her life inside the couch And when I say that I don't actually mean inside of a couch. But she gets inbetween like the blanket that we have covering the couch and the couch itself in like a little cave That's where she lives her life. And she's engaged Percy and Moose is the other Italian Greyhound around here and he's known pretty much just for being a doofus He has a big goofy errors and his is always look super wide so he just looks like a doofus. He's not a doofus little haughty guber. Hi My name is Sally Ann. I am birdies mom and you can find us at Birdie Iggy B. I R. D. I.. E. T. H. E. I G. G. Y.. Is that right. I think that's right. Spelling has been spelling. Well okay if you should know I was the spelling bee champion or great things that you're putting the snowball downhill mad fast since then so But Yeah I am beneath mom Birdie I think is just buried. Just most well known for her fire sends a style And also doing the IGGY death scream over salon show that was mixed into who'd never forget last but not laze. I go by tea on the PODCAST. Goes those with the Being really nervous about telling people who I am in public or on the Internet I am the Mars. I limit New York. Oh wait are we supposed to say where we're from. It's not that she's flagged or anything. Okay so I love your warring from. Because he'd call me out on social media all all the time about actually being a New Jersey which is very frustrating. I'M TRACY SAY ON JERSEY. That was like twice. Is that okay anyway. Lost Oh low blow. We don't need to talk about that game yesterday. All APPS anyway my my name isn't he or sorry I go by T- I'm from New York City city with birdies at Agee birdies named After a nut from Ohio that will stick by excuse me the separatist is mostly known for being just very derby So I don't know I guess he's extra. All Italian greyhounds greyhounds pretty Turkey. I think that's Kinda why fell in love with them and I but British extra therapy that like most multiple people have reached on. Say He's like he's weird. Maria the goodest kind like he's just like his facials and Dirk King. I think it has to do with his lighter is here so you can kind of have more expression issues are so full of expression but he looks at you like he's a human so how is known for that and we traveled a few times with him so he people call him the traveling eighty two. Hey come back everybody. It's been a while although I talked to you whole of time. Everybody have a good Christmas I'm nervous laughter. Loaded question I retract. We'll if you ask our age on instagram. We had a fantastic Christmas. Yeah but installation so speaking of aggies one of the coolest new relationships. I've had has been with Trevy eras. They are so cool. And I'm so glad that see introduced me to the end because of having lost on Instagram Anna here. They had a birthday party girl. Let me tell you about this so Arabists is probably like one of the note not probably ably. She's definitely the second Eggy that Norman while Piper wasn't even around that Norman met like in real life. So for for those of you that don't live in Alabama this is not iggy heaven. Their aggies are scattered very far apart. And it's just a very sad desperate. Take time down here in a one of our good friends. Iggy Leo. Who used to live here in dozen anymore? Actually connected assault together so Arabists is a longtime friend on instagram. Now in real life Arabists Mom Ellen. I are good friends and She kinda keeps listen I on my daughter dominant. UAB and it's just a great situation. Oh yes it's just awesome. So anyway Arabists is birthday is in December CIMBER and Ellen. Her Mom decides to sell a little birthday party. which in and of itself is not that Eddie? I mean we've had birthday parties. It may be a little iggy to other people outside of this world but in and of itself. That's not that crazy. Let me tell you what is crazy so in this is why missed episode three by the way. I wasn't on that at podcast because I was at the Party of the century tree or at least of the year not sure about century yet. Anyway I missed a branch with Tika and no lot. Make our PODCAST podcasts. Well let me tell you I love me some Tika and Noli like the moon and back but this is better than that would have been. I'm telling you y'All listen crazy. Okay so first of all she has a private venue rented. It's this doggy daycare facility ability where we had run of the whole place. Like nobody else was there but Arabists and her friends there were sixteen aggies. They're you're only cast team and there would have been nineteen except you're probably wondering was there any iggy drama will. Yes there wasn't he. He drama so net to midnight right before so the parties on Sunday so Saturday night. Sunday morning around midnight Wesley who is one of the I want to say swept issues. I'm GonNa give you the account name. 'cause they're awesome. It's at a G. G. Y. S.. Ww Lt they have four agencies. Okay listen all. They literally came Birmingham and rented a hotel room to come to this party. Okay I'm Talkin big fun so Wesley is playing around and I the maybe he jumped off the better something. Whatever breaks his leg? Oh my gosh yes fired and I guess landed wrong. I don't not all the notes but our hearts go out to Wesley. His may be at home by now. I chatted with his mom this week and she had her fingers crossed that he would be he coming home soon but it was a huge surgery like a very bad break just really horrible just very traumatic. So they weren't there But but anyway so there were sixteen other issues there Fria iggy that's F. R.. E. Today IGGY was there. She's a beautiful a useful white iggy that I had never known and now totally in love with little the iggy which. I don't know if y'all know that she is the tiniest Tinier you think Tika little in her name is little like Tom. Would you not name her little and she ends up being the smallest of Jawohl Sifi. Hi Fi Were there said they have three agencies and one of their aggies that Piper Arabists who always zoom that's all piper hyperion Arabic. Do the whole time is just run. They're fast as lightning and Petra who is one of sci-fi iggy man I know they're. They're like jean-luc and they all have great names. But Petra kept up just I mean right in time with them. And they just zoomed the whole time and Little Ultra v the IGGY was there she so tiny and so sweet she drove from Georgia. and Fabio McNeil was there. I mean it was just a huge she each time. So anyway where there for a few hours everybody's playing zoom in sniffen whatever and then it's about to be time to be shutting down down in here come out the party favours which oh by the way. Here's the party favours like that. Just the exposure. Thank you now. I hope you're sitting down. Tom Became the party. Favours was like a little bag of treats yet got that. That's really nice. Thanks a lot. Oh and here's your shirt from little violence closet set a freaking awesome everybody. They've got a shirt and we took a bunch of pictures and like now we have this whole southeast. I facebook group. I mean it just it morphed into this really really great thing so now you know the Portuguese in the southeast region of the US have to go play with. It's awesome so how's that for an IGGY party of the they were all different a friend. Why some more superheroes now Arabists herself had on like a super slick happy birthday shirt? That melody ahead made for her special. It was like it was almost. I WanNa say it was like dry fit material. It was so nice so everybody just had different. She had a bunch of different sizes is obviously goodness doing work. Like also right before the holidays. I know it was amazing. It was definitely the youngest event events that we participated in two thousand nineteen one hundred percent. I didn't I just sent a DM to the group group with the shirts. Awesome Fun yet answer. I think she even ended up. Sending shouts out to the aggies. Were able to make it but she did. Yeah he did so. I think that is true of all of them but I know the ones where Wesley broke his leg that that group iggy swell. I hope I'm saying that right S.. Ww Lt swamp is that how would say net. Yeah I I think it's all the initials I think so too reports. But anyway I know they posted a pic of all there in the shirts. Oh Yeah Thanking Ellen for sending them out shout out to our one of our sponsors markle's mom the little little Milos Claus anymore. Just yeah exactly and let's say I didn't even I totally the league last over the whole fact that there were you know pup cakes lobby. I mean just it went on and on and on I was just trying to hit the really big part. Yeah Hey does is looks like we have quite a number of follow for Birdie and Percy's birthday in May y'all it's gotta be In front of you guys stay tuned really. Good of birdies is birthdays coming up thank. We'll just do something. Intimate ow just be brutus. And Kevin or Alvin or whoever wait year may to me what no no. No this is January. Yeah I don't have much time at order. Some stuff already his right around the corner. Isn't it early January. Yeah F- y'All ready for giveaways presence. She may have that. Maybe maybe it's coming for me. What about that? Midsummer's night iggy drama. y'All know what I'm talking about. I think it's a good thing thing to talk about. 'cause there's a really good lesson to learn their you know. Look at your stuff in the eyes of others. 'cause like I personally don't think that those people meant I don't think their intent matched what takeaway was right. I feel like that was the thing that upset me about the whole situation. Clearly it was not it was not a good thing. Nobody is saying that how it occurred is what should have happened. I think the thing that I was really really disappointed about in the whole situation was that than a bunch of people kind of jumped on that account and were saying things to her that were released. You shouldn't say to other people and that led to their account being taken down so what could have been like a learning opportunity. Opportunity an opportunity for us to support other people in our community and try to understand. Maybe what the intent was instead was is kind of like this mob mentality now. This person isn't even around for people to interact with I will I will say so I I m I know that I think T- it might be but I am also in a few of these Italian Greyhound facebook groups and that's how now I I found out about all the stuff happening was the Admin of one of these facebook pages posted. The videos on the facebook page was like this is outrageous like this animal abuse like all sal. Sally described what the video was because our listeners may not know what the hell we're talking about. Yeah so basically. What happened was so midnight? Summer ECKES was instagram account and They had posted a video of the two days Obermann. Tanya ah or on your short I guess but nobody yet obi she posted a video of like her I against quote unquote punishing them after they had ripped up potty pads and the inspiration was actually from. I think a post hosts. That did a while back when brutus had ripped up one of his party pads but what Tia done which she took a piece of the potty pat that was ripped in just tied it kind of around the tops of space by his ears. The difference between live and what this in particular account did was not only did they do the ribbon around the Towards the top of the head by the ears but they also oh tied the smell like tied a piece of Potty pat around the snow and I think the thing that really bothered me about that particular video oh was not only was a tighter on the snout tight around out pretty tightly and era you could very clearly tell that both of her dogs were it seriously bugging out like really really really stressed out appoint they yeah they were shaking Anya on your was like I. I want to say whimpering. Almost if I remember correctly I might not be But I definitely remember her shaking. Ob looked freak doubt then in like after she posted all those videos. I think the thing that bothered me about that particular. How how she posted it was she also posted a explanation? which was like? I'm not hurting the dogs. Like clearly like on. It's just you know stressed out. Because she knows she did something wrong Blah Blah Blah so. Everyone can relax. And so then fast forward forward I see all of these people on facebook groups talking about it and she got real in the comments of some of these facebook groups like fast. They found they found out like the owners. Names found out the county that they lived in and and were encouraging people to call the county's animal control to report them for Animal Abuse And that's just kind of the tip of the iceberg and they were saying some really terrible shit about them. You know the least of the worst being they were animal abusers and just kind of escalated from there and For me like I had interacted personally with that account before. All of this stuff even happened. They are really nice neo. No no matter what the situation may have given people in terms of who they might be just based on the content that they had posted But but you know I I have always found them to be incredibly sweet incredibly kind incredibly giving people and so. I was really really really disappointed. Obviously that they posted content like that thinking that it would upset other people but I think I was also really disappointed in how certain individuals just reacted so strongly and I get it. You know I mean just seeing that makes yes you like It gives you kind of that Israel reaction but I think to than star like offering to buy the dogs off the owners like the troll. You know You know to report them for animal abuse to do welfare checks. I felt like that was really really crossing the line like I. But that's also just coming from my perspective as someone who has interacted with them In the past they weren't that big of an account. Either now I come from the same perspective. Do I always interact or one of the first Catholic interactive attractive with when I started on instagram. But not knowing that context not that. I'm not disappointed with the compensate that said I also would have never expected that kind of content. I'm from them at all because they they are like lovely. Yeah they always post really positive content about both of their dogs so i. I didn't expect it to be that serious like I. I didn't expect that your dog is ripping up. You know you're POTTY PADS I would've been I would've I would've just like taken video of the Ponti. Pat and Linda zoomed in on their faces or something like I would have probably posted that same content. Different Yeah Psych. I before I guess from this rations I kind of feel bad like that. I I might have triggered happened. But I've posted videos before of Brutus ripping up the peapod and maintainable on him And I haven't had any negative feedback. Of course it was a different situation. I DIDN'T I. It's not really tight. He was a whimpering he was just looks very very ashamed. I guess it's like a normal dog. Ashamed reaction versus something maybe painful or her I guess really fearful for him but it was like scared. Who still shaking like he was looking at me with his puppy is but I never really got the reaction and I've never interactive their account before so it was like news to me And part of the reason like that it might have have exploded. More was because they tagged by account at Agee Brutus and I reposted it on my story it was was a story. Sorry posted it on my story. We've just like a sad crying face like a neutral out out look at it and then I guess other bigger accounts Thaw it and said. Oh my gosh. Why would they tag you in that? Though they would go ahead and said they message to person and told them you know it's not I don't know what they said is not nice. Whatever we're told them it shouldn't happen and then I guess somehow got brought if he spoke after that that was kind of like the time minded? I was looking at and At expected to be like that either maybe I should. Maybe it's a lesson for everyone to not not post sensitive content or potentially sensitive content up. I guess it really escalated within like twenty twelve hours probably. I don't even see twelve hours. I think it was even less than that. y'All yeah I well I went to sleep and then the next the next day it was like well like I got so many messages and like what what's happening. I thought I was just. I didn't think too much into it. I thought the dog looks scared but I it wasn't like you know the dog in imminent danger of apply. ibook at the Accountant. Look Normal afterwards the women are takeaway from on this. What's the moral story I mean my takeaway is when you're doing something like that? You need to always stop and look at the photo or the video in the eyes of somebody who doesn't know you or your account because that perception it becomes reality instantly and it doesn't matter how nice you are. It doesn't matter how great you've been in the past. You know you get somebody body with fifty thousand followers post in your shit up on their story saying you're a dog abuser. Then you're pretty much done in this world. I I think I mean that's just my takeaways. You really need to be careful. I mean obviously. Don't post horrible things. That's a no-brainer but I think A lot of sometimes. It's just a you know a an unfortunate series of events you know I. I just really don't think that this account had any intention of of posting what was perceived. Does that make nothing Seru. Yeah Yeah I don't I don't know if Nola INSYS does monkey posted it but she is. One of them is Jim privately. I think that's kind of more acceptable unless you're like threatening done privately but to just his a hey. I'm a dog owner to do. This is like sensitive content. Maybe you should reconsider our take down. I think the other thing to keep in mind. Is that when you do. How a significant a number of people following you like people are always going to take a minute to think for themselves like people are going to take what they see and then they're going to run with that so I think just being aware that when you have that big of a rich you want to try and be like balanced silence about what you're putting out there thumbing sense? Yeah this this actually made me a little more. I guess thinking twice about what deposed the the me too honestly. Yeah Yeah you can ask your friends I guess or maybe other accounts that you trust. I won't put you on blast immediately. We asked awesome. Hey should I post this like I did that with a posting brutus in his little in and out hat comparing to a pulp figure with the the Bishop Pat. And I couldn't figure out which poke to post put in might be Not Sensitive of me so I picked Pope Riana say of her conversation. About Pope's yes so reach out to our Fred. I asked someone who might be on the Internet ally see if they think this might offend people allowed things offend people of course but see. They're takers I guess so. Maybe that's a good segue into instagram. Confessions what are the things that we do. That are not great. We're not perfect trek with the content. We put out. There are dogs. We do who of instagram. That would put us on the knobby. Liz I us as people or says us as social social media people. Okay so I don't understand the question. I thought we were perfect. I'm not going to have a response. Well I I'm a little to those in giveaways but I didn't. You didn't think for much at first until you win one until you went one. You're like Oh crap you can actually like get stuff from these. Then it's like crack cocaine. Yes so I guess it's it's it's not good because you could get it's the band but I don't know and then you'll get a flag on you for a long time but td ever flag on You D. Think I think it's might be lifting. I don't WanNA speak too soon. Ed How do you know how do you do. You just have a feeling well. It's because like I do like the slightest thing afterwards after unbanned and like I'm back in jail like what the I didn't even enter any giveaway. I was just commenting on my own post every time I enter anything. I don't energised every giveaway. I'm not totally crazy. Raziq about it but I do in our a lot and like I was entering ticket the gays doggy bathroom giveaway this week and I thought about you I thought oh I hope that teed is not enter this eight thousand times and then well firdous is doesn't go indoors so I entered turn in hopes to win it for Percy. ooh That was nice friend. Yes I really need my heart so warm. Yeah Yeah there was some drama on it right. We WanNa talk about that before Nathuram for other waiting so basically on the. Yeah so on the dougie bathroom for those of you who might not be following or owner. The doggie bathroom is a box that you you can go to the party and there are biodegradable. Patsy can throw in the Washer. They are amazing. I have one similar at home Made from Home Depot Abo- and Pinterest but they have made it official and beautiful so Tika is doing a giveaway with the the Doug Bathroom and somebody commented on the post saying that this was a luxury item that the owners who do so are the rich because they have too much square footage or they are lazy and don't want to take their dogs outside. I could do. Kika had the classiest the US queen response as Tika Does Dinner Story About Earner Story. Define it here. I think I sent it to our are and by the wing. I see you entering it right now. Oh just so. Everyone knows you're recording alive. And I'm looking down at my phone and I'm seeing Iki Brutus also comment on Thika the Post Winston once the Nice plywood you tag at once and once at that you're running it for me tag other people three winners guys anyway I find it no. It's gone news something like something like you don't have anything nice to say. Don't say it. You Know Yeah Yeah. Don't who works for one does not work for all others. I am not lazy. I Walk my dog a lot in sweaters. He who says I want to go outside. What am I gonNA do? Yeah and British just doesn't want to go inside it's like people are like. Oh man it's so cold it's snowing you're bringing your dog through the pain in you know like there's there's haters on both sides so it's like the Awami walk him or do not WanNa really walk it. Yes you can never win. It's like you do one thing. And then people people are like what are you doing it this way and you do it the other one as long as you're doing whatever works best for your dog and your dog is like not in pain or caused any problems by then nick. Just do your thing if you can have him peeing the litterbox in your house. Cool if you WANNA take him outside to have them go to the bathroom. Cool just like all different preferences references to spell lazy. Do you know how much work it is to maintain a litter box for a dog and keep the house smelling like lemons. It's not easy at all kind of. Yeah I'm kind of glad like every time I have to walk him outside like I am. I'm thinking wait. I'm saving resources. I'm saving I have a frigging diaper. Genie house does it smell of her babies they smoked. Yeah so doesn't Arte Dog. Confessions Being Lazy Not being so I think the the other dog confession we had was being tired about excessive posted. Maybe not commenting as quickly as he should. uh-huh who wait. Let me think okay. I'll L. DO at the university is obviously Brutus Ibanez. Perseus good friends so brutus has posted a lot of Christmas photos and Dan because in British really in front I comment on everyone but I can only say merry Christmas so many different ways I Austrailia. That was a really hard season to get there. Oh yeah just in general for everybody so I've actually continued the concept now. Lindbergh unpurchased Not Christmas related. I make a Christmas related. It's a lot of very so I confess that I copied aide Merry Christmas that two words and then pasted it and then added some stuff at the end so the insert is blocked me replied Merry Christmas to you county art to you all or to your family. You know it's just easier. Ah especially if it's everyone is just wishing America I mean. I'm not trying to say anything bad but like it's obviously there wishing. Merry Christmas posting a picture dog so confessions I also feel like it's a little bit different to like posts similar blur responses to all of the comments on your post versus going out and putting the same comment on everyone else's posts. Oh my gosh that that is I think. Probably some of the biggest struggles that I've gone through recently For those of our listeners. Who Don't know I'm slowly starting to come back from a very very long breaks that took from BIRDIES social media. But when I first made oppose saying saying that I was so we're going to start come back. I mean obviously like there was so much love and support that I received from so many different some people which was very nice but then you know I want to respond back to everybody but I feel like all of my comments. Were like thank the guys. Hey like like it's so good to be back and I just I felt like I sounded like fake eight. Gas Ho fly like Lehrer Respon- I mean I've I would much rather like get a response in no this somewhat. What is actually read? What I've written than just not get a response like I would rather that like the person clearly going through and like saying big you two things even if they're just saying thank you to everyone than I can tell that they're looking through although there might be a way to like automatically responded? I don't know about because I'm instagram. Dome mm-hmm but so here's here's what I noticed over the holidays so I was kind of in and out of instagram had a lot of Home home stuff going on for the holidays like so. Many people did so instead of responding in more or less real time which is what but I usually try to do. I would not be on instagram all day. Maybe even through the night and the next day go and look and try hi to address comments all at once. And that's when it's so hard right because you're trying to just get through them. You're trying to acknowledge everyone. Everyone you know whereas if if you have the luxury to do it in real time which nobody has that luxury every day but when you can do it that way it seems like I always come up with something much more genuine. Does that make sense. Yep It's also dangerous like I've gone blocked because I'm responding to all the comments at once so I actually I actually space it out like that flag tee time to well you on the hit list to it. Sounds like people within like forty five to a minute. If I'm because usually when I post I tried to post in an hour hour block and that block respond to the comments as they come in and then the ones that come in later. I says I'd like another hour finished out interesting. Well I think the bottom line. 'cause they I honestly white to talk to my followers not just like the relationships develop are so fun. I'm thinking sorry it's like I mean I was just GonNa say I mean you know talking engaging Ajay with the people that engage us less like that. I mean that's how we all found each other. I think it's pretty cool and look how far we've gone. This actually brings Something that I wanted to talk about got a so I- strolled into a random store to get a pet portrait that so anyway. A free pet portrait. That's so iggy brutus. Anyway that is very iggy brutus. So and then I met a the one of the staff members who said he has an eighty two and looked at night. Wait I think I follow protests. Turns out he didn't but he followed him immediately so forgiven but it turns out that the IGGY that the person had was iggy squad Dante's brother like oh pretty crazy and I told him followed podcast and he'll probably Ali isn't just episode. Hopefully I saw him subscribe on. It and so. That's pretty crazy. It's like when you start to recognize other people's dog on the street or you start to to be called out and say hey is I- blah blah. It's like pretty cool and like a little bit creepy actually but pretty cool so keep doing that. So does he have a business no he. I think he was just a employee at the store. Okay I was going to say you should give him a shout-out but And they don't have an instagram account for the dog. Either but the DOT Dante's brother is name. Is Ito just A to alphabet letters. And he's really cute. He's really tiny they're only four months. Dante is actually a really big for four months. A yeah from what I can see. so He's like probably. EEO is going to be pretty a big too so he was like lifting. Brutus like how much does he weigh. Like is this GonNa be. Oh it was pretty cute a good conversation when you know other egg Owners and meet them in real life. It's like you never stop talking about your dog. It's like insane you're awesome. Yeah Oh yeah which reminds me sally also had an encounter with a ye right with an in your store in the bay area no not an encounter with an Iggy so I was at the outlets a couple of days ago with Birdie and my parents just trying to get some last minute shopping done and for me Before I leave and fly back to Boston on Tuesday on New Year's Eve I I ran into this woman into storage useless like very very a Korean lady and she just started talking to me and my dad ad and she was basically just gushing over birdieing. Health was how pretty she was. which isn't normal like people will whether that's been here in Bay area or even back when we're in Boston people will sometimes stop us on the street and they'll oh pay a lot of attention to birdie compliment her and her sense of style which is basically what complimenting me is still I love it while the ego boost whatever so oh she was like complimenting how property was how a key to us or sons of style and then she started asking me? If birdie was ever we're GONNA have puppies in future And I kind of taken aback. I was like You know she's just just a puppy right now and we're also not planning on making are have any sort of puppies or litters in future feature. Either and I didn't really tell her that she was spayed right away. I just you know she asked me. How Old Bernie was you know? She birdied the district seven months on Christmas Eve so I thought that would probably be enough indication for her to light hop the F. off but it wasn't apparently apparently because she kept on pushing she was like pretty is so beautiful should make such beautiful puppies and like all the stuff. Won't you know birdies stayed. She basically kind of was like like you. Speed your dog like how could you like you know she's like how. How could you know she would have made such pretty puppies like why? Would you do that to her. Like Bobo logo and I basically left that conversation. Asian being like yeah well you know. I don't feel like I would really be like as a good of a breeder as I would want to be But also oh like I'm not about to start taking care of like more than one dog in my life when it's already incredibly difficult for me to take care of this one child that I have so well because it's not a dog it's not just it's like my life which is fine and I love it. Obviously but yeah I mean it's a lot of responsibility and then to also like rear tiny af puppies from like like little baby to like less of a baby and ready to go home. Wants someone like that's also a lot of time and effort and money and those are the things that I don't have right now not that I felt like explain myself to her just kind of left but I kinda left that conversation a bit missed like what the Hell I I told you she was paid. Just leave it at that and please. Don't make me confront you because confrontation I think he's you know the AL Q- I was actually referring to Yup. Yeah I did okay. I didn't WanNA interact. IS THE NEW STORY TO BE SO I. I don't WanNA interrupt but anyway yet no yes so I did go two Yup So I was in San Francisco a few you days ago with Birdie and my parents again we were going out hikes in the area and San Francisco is and always will be one of my favorite cities and I took birdie around to some of my favorite places in the bay area which was really really really great and just a really nice breath pressure for me. I've just had a lot going on the past few weeks but we ended up going early square and Stopping by a store called gap so at any of my northern California Bay area friends. Please pooley's go check them out because they are incredible and so amazing Their owner and at at least their owner and the ahead of their product development team are actual iggy owners so while a lot. I mean obviously all of the products that they sell on the accessories clothing clothing other gear that they have all met their suitable for all breeds. But they really designed a lot of these things with Italian greyhounds in mind in particular her and so like the designs of the different clothing I feel like is so practical. Practical and useful will like I did a whole product review on the performance. Wrap that they sell which has been in a huge game changer or a walks and hikes that burden? I actually go on now which has been really great But they also when I went to the store had a fifteen year old senior iggy that was there and I just I cannot remember the name right off the top of my head but She was going. She doesn't have a lot of eyesight. Eyesight left anymore. So a Birdie as soon as she saw the senior Iggy just wanted to go right up to them and just start sniffing But obviously you know sudden movement sudden movements make any dog kind of jumpy but I feel like a is especially. They're incredibly touching when it comes to stuff like that so she a really bristled at first but they ended up getting along okay and I ended up getting a Birdie. The performance wrap a harness that they sell their also a ski suit. I did the review of the performance rap. And if you didn't see it on my instagram I'm going to make it. A story highlight On my profile so that people will be able to see it once. I am back in Boston. In the the articles I will be doing a review of the ski suit as well. I'm really excited about the Because it's sick as hell and and the design is just I think impeccable end just really well thought out in craft dead so I'm really excited to share that review with everybody wants. I'm back back but we had a really really great time. And they're just so friendly. They care obviously about dogs and the kinds of products in the kinds of products except they're creating But also they gave me a discount for being an iggy owner which was the best because we ended up spending a lot of money. That's that's awesome but we had. Yeah we had an absolute blast. And I'm really hoping to talk with them in the future about reviewing more but products what extent Supporting their brand as much as I can. Even though I'm all the way across the country and they do have a store online a I use domestic in international so no excuses if you are interested in any of their products you should be able to get them at least on the website if not in their or store yes and the website is yep stores dot com white piece stores dot com were not sponsored this year disclaimer and Yeah they In the future I think the next purchase I'll be making is probably so the performance of the performance. Wrap that I got is a fleece lined wind and that's one of the few things I really liked about it but obviously when it's warmer in the spring in the summer of having that particular rap will not be super. We're hopeful because it'll just make her hot so I'll probably get like a lighter. Wraps that they sell that isn't for line and as a little bit thinner in fabric material but I will also be purchasing a like. They make bathrobes for dogs as well. Which I think is the most extra thing but so agee Because I think that our dogs do need bathrobes they just shiver all the time at least birdie shivers all the time when she comes out of the bathroom so I got we stop the bathroom with help. Yeah it's really cute looking at right now very very stylish anyway okay. What else do we have Santa Ana San? Well if I if you need segue. I didn't get any presents for Christmas. Oh no you didn't get him Alot no it's just that I was going to give him his present SPEC home and we were travelling. I'm not going. It wasn't GonNa like my suitcase with like presence once. We don't understand you as I mean. How big were these presents? He incoming presidents okay cannot lie anyway so at aged creatures did a international again international national agee Suppo Santa this year where I think like twenty something or participated in a couple of us. Did everyone except for I guess right. Yeah so we put our name yet so it was like a l.. Sir I think what's the website a We put our names in a hat assigned different people to be their secrecy and You can also put your wishlist on it if you want. It's like a forgot. The price acquaint Twenty five bucks euros euros was what threw me off five euros. Yes twenty to twenty. I five so I think you had a little bit of okay. What is our et? I read that is as dollars anyway so I. I don't know how much that would be like twenty eight dollars or something I'm working on. It doesn't matter that much of a difference. Yeah it's not lie euros are dropping anyway anyway anyway. So section comes next yeah next on economy anyway So it was a gift exchange and then we all were supposed to open our presents on the twenty third considering during the people will probably be busy on the real Christmas Eve on except Sally. You guys ripped it in early. Yeah so my guest got signs nine in the middle of November will ice so got certain very early and I don't even know who birdie secret Santa was. So if you're out there slide into my d m who you are but I saw this really cute Haydn didn't toy is like shaped like Boba tea and the a little squeaky thing the squeaky toys inside of the today were little like Bobo balls. So birdies been having a pretty good time with that. I am actually agee creatures secret Santa. Uh all my guy so I got her clothes from this random kind of off she website. I found a couple of really cute jumpers that I wanted to send them But turns out things got lost in the Mail on I just had found out about like so IGGY creatures if you're listening to this. I am so sorry as soon as I fly back to Boston. I'll be purchasing. You guys really nice colors weedon callers you guys Because I feel so bad that all these things happen and like the worst thing was I was kept in will leap about all of this until I received the message from the agree creatures mom and she was like hey I didn't receive anything Thing and This was also still while I was kind of on my really big instability so I wasn't really keeping up tabs with a lot of birdies social media messages messages emails. All that stuff so it It also kind of got tossed off to the wayside for a little bit but you will be receiving something very soon Zim. I promise and if you don't you can just cancel and Meyer. Salient blast will hold you accountable. Tori thank you. We're honest honest people here But except are you supposed to review your secret. Santa is like people post they. Oh my God did post I mean I mean I mean. Are you supposed to know who gave it to you like in real life. Yes no it actually. It depends on the Secret Santa. There's that I've done where you don't ever find out and there's others where everybody gets told after Anyway experience he could so firdous. This received a gift from CC and it was that a star pom-pom hat for a no Yan nude aggies which also. Oh make that shark at that British wears so I know there has actually kind of fit to Dickstein debt. Brutus takes a few pause to get it off his head but thank UC was really cute. It was today In wearing Santa Alphabet packaging was like. Oh my God the my mail that actually looked at at me like what the when when he gave me the package and and I was just like what does she has to be his secret. Santa Present and I I opened it and it had a a frozen gift bag in a frozen card actually sings and didn't die midway though it was really nice. Jason Sweet and of course brutus didn't really like his present that much but that's because of the hat but I liked it so that was a that's it was really for you. Yeah I know it was for me and photos and he doesn't. I wish he can wear a hat I think it bothers him because of the ears being tightened being over here danger when when he's outside I don't know that's what it is. Yeah so I don't know I don't should I review my my my purse gas. Can you get with me. Something like spill spilling for the soundbite do so we'll tag her area. So my brisk got a president or I did this. I got a present for at iggy Adelaide pop up in Toronto Canada So I got her A. I guess. It's a multi purpose hook. It's shaped of dogs by and his tail as a hook so as I say pretty neat and it's cute Where I guess she can hang her leash or hang her jacket or our other stuff for the door I don't remember the brand. It was that she just on an Amazon item. It was one of the items on her wishlist that she had created. I thought was really cute and I would want that for myself so I got it and I actually haven't seen her open so I hope open made it I also got it really early. I guess I'm one of those overachievers Sally's C percents so And I didn't actually know. Oh that everyone was going to do such like awesome packaging until I receive minor. I'm like Oh shoot I should have ordered it and repackaged and shipped it but that'd be double shipping so I dunno her efficient. My person was in the UK so that wouldn't have worked super well for packaging wise in Canada. Still a little bit difficult. So yeah who has oh absolutely. I think it's a lot easier to like IOS. Whatever their local Amazon on things are and that way than sending it here and then sending it out? So who'd you get Margot I don't know who they are on Instagram And I did send them our instagram handle. But I haven't seen them post anything but I do know that they got it. 'cause I got like delivery notification But then our secret Santa was IGGY EH pepper. Yeah IGGY under Yes and Super Duper adorable. Who got acute blanket and one of the a little Like hide and seek toys which was gingerbread house with gingerbread people. Inside of it two of which have been murdered at this point and then a bag of treats so it was very exciting. Fine Yeah it was a little tricky because You you don't know the dog's size notre allergies and but but you could private message them. Ominously on Ulster's those. I thought that it was pretty neat that you can ask. Hey what size. No Colorado was shirt or use in this Marin so that it was like easier making sure that everyone gets the right gift so I have a funny one about our secret Santa Light t said we polled Buddhists and so we took care of that and then Christmas miss comes and I'm not seeing anything I did get this package from nude iggy few days before Christmas like that week last week week. I open it up and it's I have a post on my profile. You can see it of the dogs in these really cute hats like Leopard Cheetah Leopard. Maybe eh there pom pom hats super cute. But here's the thing that package just says it's to me and I opened it up and it's these hats and here's here's how I know I personally have a problem. I'm like I don't remember ordering those but damn they're so cute so I'm so did you catch so. I'm sure I did so I put on my take pictures. I'm having a great time and then like I guess it was twenty third or twenty fourth. I get a message from iggy creatures. Did you receive your gift. I'm like nope nothing and I'm not I'm not trying to make waves. I'm just like she asked so I'm like no I didn't she's like While your secret Santa said that they sent it. Are you sure I'm like no nothing here. Okay so how are secret. Santa was the squad. Good friends on. Hello I'm like look down. We we sent you the had such an idiot. So thank you again squad love you. So that's my stupidity. The Secret Santa. Thank you for listening to another episode of that. So A and thank you to our sponsors Patina pets rock on Roxy Exceed and Chewy for discount coach from our sponsors. Please be sure to check out our website at Dot Com and follow us on Instagram at. That's so easy.

Agee Brutus instagram Piper Arabists Sally Ann iggy Norman Argus Suppo Santa Percy Iggy B. Wesley Boston New York US facebook Iggy Leo IGGY
Season 3 - Episode 21

They Walk Among Us

43:44 min | 1 year ago

Season 3 - Episode 21

"Support for they walk among us. His brought to you by ADT ADT canal, design and install a smart time. Just for you backed by twenty four seven protection, the new smart home is customizable to your lifestyle and make you feel safe for listening to this podcast. For instance. She can say neighborhood watch service, an ADT will turn on outdoor lighting and make it look like your home. Even when you want ADT will set up your home with multiple smart devices and security features like video doorbells, cameras locks and more. Visit ADT dot com slash podcast to learn how ADT can design an installer, secure smart time. Just for you. One can facetious in three episode twenty one of they walk among us put cast dedicated to u k true crime. This is part. One of a to pass story. Listener caution is advised is this episode contains adult themes in descriptions that some listeners may find distressing. Gene. And Frank look is only daughter was born on August. Fifteenth nineteen sixty four Sally was the spitting image of their mother. Father Frank worked as a police chief inspector in the market town devices, the family, moved twenty five miles south to Salisbury a short distance from Stonehenge and Frank look was soon promoted to the chief of police surrounded by the quintessentially English countryside. Sally attended the south whoop. She grammar school for girls. She was highly athlete and enjoyed singing in the choir incredibly TalentEd Perform Sally was recognized and offered a scholarship at the Royal Academy of dramatic arts in London. She declined the opportunity to learn the arts preferring to stay at home and focus on her studies. At least one teach remarked, the sallies ACA Demi talents did not come naturally, and she would need to work hard a dedication paid off when she. She and taught marks after school. She set her sights on studying law. Our was discouraged by careers adviser. Who suggested the perhaps she should be more realistic due to the complexities at the law and to limited natural abilities. Disheartened Sally decided to study industrial geography at Southampton university as she did in school Sally worked hard exceeding electrodes expectations outside the classroom. She also enjoyed the nightlife and made friends easily during a time studying living away from hyme Sally, go the news that mother Jeanne found a lump on one of her breasts. And fortunately, she was diagnosed with cancer Sally under father rallied around jeans. She underwent treatment much families relief. The operation was a success. And progress was slow the signs looked good that gene would make a full recovery. Sully lighter received her grades and she obtained the. Highest score ever recorded at the university for industrial joker feared the time to one she missed a first cost agree by the narrowest of margins and decided on her next step. She got a job working as a management trainee at Lloyds Bank temporary career will she decided what to do next. She passed a banking exams and move to a rival company CitiBank working in their corporate finance department where she dealt with a number of local law firms one day at work. She took some documents to a solicitor. It was here to meet her future husband, Stephen Clarke, who was working as a genius elicited at the time. Sally was usually confident but around Steve she was tongue-tied and flustered. Eventually they began dating the differences seem to bring them closer together. Sully lighter said of Steve is my best friend, my innermost mate. I trust him with myself the couple ring gauge during September of nineteen ninety eight and couldn't be happier. But it wouldn't be long before the bubble burst the council which sound his mother at four so hard against was back and this time her prices did not look good. The family spent the Christmas of nineteen Ninety-Eight together and Sally would often speak with the mother about how happy she was with Steve after one of those heart to hearts in February nineteen thousand nine gene luckier would take a final breath. Sally's father Frank was a man that it worked hard his whole life is wife did most things for him without her by side, you found a mystic life difficult. Gene had been the one that it might the house a high. Stephen Sally were married in July nineteen ninety it's Thomas church in Salisbury. This was one of the happiest days of Sally's life, Jenny wished mother was there to see it. This relationship with Steve was going from strength to strength Solly was becoming dissatisfied with our position CitiBank. They Sally was in mid twenties and was well on a way to a subsidized mortgage company car, and a substantial Pyros she still couldn't shake the feeling that she should have pursued a law degree Steve was only too happy to help his wife and Sally was determined. She was willing to give up a job in the city of London and the salary of thirty thousand pounds, which is about sixty five thousand pounds in today's money. Sally was accepted onto a low cost the city of London university of the two years. She studied hard when the final exam results were published. Sally recalled the meeting she had had with a careers advisor telling her that she shouldn't focus on low telling her. She wasn't bright enough when Sally Clark received the news that she had passed. She was elated. Mortgage news came when a father Frank met, Rosemary Squires the two found solace in each other's company. So decided to get married Sally was pleased for a father and Franken raise Murray tie the knot in April nineteen ninety one. Steve Clarke had become a pawn to launch solicitors in my chest. Ikuta adult shores that the same time sallied found work as an assistant solicitor it. Another city law firm in that corporate finance department in nineteen Ninety-three after an acquisition the two funds ended up becoming one. So now the couple working for the same solicits? Both brought in a considerable income which afforded them the chance to purchase hope. Coated you Wilmslow Cheshire. The white building was the hyme. They always wanted except for an incredibly stiff front door that was almost impossible to open Celine. Steve watch their friends become parents. Although they felt they wanted to have a significant nest egg before trying for a family Sally was highly ambitious in a role as a solicitor was never overly maternal but felt a biological clock was ticking in January nineteen ninety six. The couple were blessed with wonder. Awful news Sally was pregnant. She was in shock. But she couldn't be happier later on in the pregnancy. They found out they were having a boy they had picked nine for this son before he Arroyo. They chose Christopher Joshua Clark. He was born in the early hours September twenty second nineteen ninety six three days later, the newborn was allowed to come home with his parents, the only oquendo of the household who were unhappy to see Christopher arrive at hope cottage with a family cats, Taba thorough and Trico Sunday described her son in one word, beautiful really, cried and seem content in his Moses basket he seldom stayed in his freshly painted yellow and blue Nasseri his parents felt safe knowing this son was nearby. So would often keep him in his basket in that bedroom spent as much time with the newborns. They could. Christmas was fast approaching. So the couple visited a talker to have their first family photos taken they arranged Christopher christening for the new year and sent out in voice to forty of their closest friends and family. Support for they walk among us. His brought to you by ADT ADT can now design and install a smart time. Just for you backed by twenty four seven protection, then new small-time is customizable to your lifestyle and make you feel safe or listening to this podcast. For instance, you can say lockup service and AT were lock your doors, close the door an arm. Your system ADT will set up your home with multiple smart devices and security features like video doorbells, cameras locks and more. Visit ADT dot com slash podcast to learn how ADT can design and install a secure smart home just for year. During the start of December. Sally and Steve to Christopher on his first proper family outing a trip to London they would be staying at the strand police hotel in the heart of London's West End on Sally was out shopping with her friends Steve was working in the hotel room. Looking after Christopher is he sought it through some paperwork. Steve gone Stover to his son notice that Christopher suddenly started bleeding from. Both nostrils dope was called urgently. An offer Christopher was examined his parents told that it was nothing to worry about you'd been in good Health Day before. Saline Steve tried to put the days events to the back of their minds. That was easier said than done. The weeks passed Sally cherish the time. She shed at home with a new sun. So is looking to go back to work on a part time basis. And fortunately, she'd only been qualified for such a short period, she couldn't reduce working hours. So after speaking with Steve the two decided they would employ child minder. Sullied worked hard to get qualifications. So it wasn't something. She wanted to give up. After the couple returned from London. Sally went to oppose Natal appointment, she told a dog to the Christopher at had a heavy nose bleed juice. I mentioned that a son had a runny nose, which he couldn't seem to shake off the doctor didn't examine Christopher explained the two was nothing to worry about. Sully was instructed that it could be cleared up quickly with some light. Steam cotton, bud. Freud? I December thirteenth nineteen Ninety-six a day that began like any other Sally headed out with Christopher to post a Christmas gift. And then went to a bakery to decide on the oh sing for Christopher christening cake returned to an empty cottage. Steve was at a Christmas party socializing didn't come easily to him. But he's wife had persuaded into the to spike on the phone. Then Sally got in the bath. Christopher was close by the bathroom one. Sally, droid herself. Oh, she picked up. Christopher put him in his Moses's basket on the bedroom. Floor in the wardrobe Sally turned on the TV and headed downstairs to make a hot drink. The cats will boiled Sally did the washing up before turning to the bedroom. She was no more than ten minutes when she returned to the bedroom. Shortly after nine thirty pm Sally placed a Cup of tea on the bedside table. She looked down at the Moses boss cket expecting to see her son smiling Bhakta, she noticed the Christopher was a dusty Greg color. Wasn't breathing. Sally didn't know what to do in a state of panic and unable to remember any of the resuscitation training. She had done silently picked up as son you felt them. She ran downstairs and Dowd nine nine nine. The emergency services rushed to Christopher's aid. They approached the property and tried both the front and back doors, but they wouldn't open one of the paramedics could his Sally screaming inside the front door was nearly impossible to Ivan and the back door had been locked from the inside by Sally before she went to bed. Sally couldn't remember where she put the. She she screamed that tonight as hot as spare paramedics obtained a key from next door when they finally access the property they tried their best to resuscitate the infant on the kitchen table. He was pale coal to the touch and had nine pulse. Christopher was rushed to the accident and emergency room Macclesfield hospital throughout the entire journey. Sally was hysterically screaming at the paramedics, please don't let my baby die. Once the hospital. Saudi was taken into a side room is the nurses and doctors did their best to resuscitate her son. She told a nurse that a husband would blame her and he wouldn't love her anymore. Around ten pm. Steve Clark was contacted out of restaurant whereas Christmas party was being held. You didn't recognize the voice on the other end of the line. Told him to get to McAfee hospital as quickly as possible is wife needed him. The arrived around ten pasta eleven an a doctor asked to speak to him in private. He was told his son had been pronounced dead at ten forty pm. Christopher Clark was eleven weeks old. In between her. Shouts of why me who Sally could think about was a Christmas present shit labeled in hope cottage it read to daddy with love from Christopher. In the next morning. Their awoken by two police officers. He wanted to know more about the previous evening distraught. Sally recounted the series of events that led to the loss of her son. The police officers took away the Moses's basket and abounds each share. The belongs Christopher. Christmas day approached silence. Steve received word from the coroner. The Kristopher died g to alo- words per to retract infection fee breezes were found on his body long with tear in his friend Ulum part of the political will this was believed to have been caused when attempts were made to resuscitate him small amount of blood was found in his lungs. But was deemed inconsequential the time the only grain of comfort Stephen Sally Clark, given this would have likely died in his sleep. A funeral took place on December twenty second nineteen ninety six tonnes church in Wilmslow. Steve Sally in the vicar witness. Christopher small coffin is it made its way behind the curtain. The start of nineteen ninety seven selene state decided to travel abroad to reflect on what had happened. I spoke about what they were going to do next when they returned. They both three themselves back into their work twelve to fourteen hour days. One unusual. But they both felt something was missing. The pair decided that perhaps trying for another baby might help their pain. Steve would like to say the couple saw this as part of the healing process to get over the loss of their first son. They didn't take them long to conceive an inmate nineteen ninety Sally discovered. She was pregnant Steve had been to bereavement counseling, but Solly struggle with the idea of telling stranger how she felt instead she turned to alcohol, but first she drank in secret at time, and then his progress drinking work the office staff soon. Realised Sally was sent on early maternity leave. She wrote. She tried to hide a drinking problem from a husband under the belief that he hadn't noticed when he finally confronted Sally about it. She was relieved. They both. Agreed that Sally should see a specialist after their appointment. It was recommended. The Sunday talk regularly with a counselor the specialist didn't see her. Our whole dependence is something that couldn't be overcome some testing was carried out to ensure the baby was healthy. No. The results were positive Sally Steve decided that would use the same hospital. The same consultants before as they would be aware of the couples past the happy parents were informed at the sex of the baby is going to be a boy. Playing badminton in October nineteen Ninety-seven Steve tour is kill his tendon. He was told his leg would need to be covered in plaster for the next few months. Not so ideal is son was due to be born in December the end of November the couple of rive at hospital for a routine checkup without realizing it Sally was in the early stages of labor. Harry Richard Clark was born on van between nine thousand nine hundred ninety seven it was three weeks premature and white just six pounds. Before they prepared to leave the hospital. Sally and Steve were reminded how to perform the resuscitation procedure. They were told they must be forceful a broken rib was better than a dead baby. Steve practiced on the dummy. But Sally couldn't bring a self to do it is it broke back. Too many memories. When they go time the couple and the hospital did everything they could to monitor Harry's health who's placed on the care of next infant program, which was designed to support parents that had previously lost show Geeta cot death. Electrodes were attached. A Harry's abdomen the machine an apnea. Rely could detect up normalities in his breathing. Harry slept next with parents bed every night. He was kept dumbs length for many one the shade. Even the slightest sign of a cold and his white was regularly monitored. Christopher seldom ever cried. But Harry seem to be far more vocal keeping his parents up. My Steve things the couple would go onto employee Leslie Carrigan the nanny who helped around the high five days a week. She ever saw two loving affectionate. Parents. Harry, turn seven weeks old is out near alarm was going off continually. He seemed to find the selene Steve told by experts that it was likely a technical vote around this time Harry started to develop a cold. This progressively got worse to his parents cool down to the -mergency doctor the doctor carried out in examination and had a few stern words for both parents as it was only a cold. This is certainly not an emergency. He said the couple explained to the doctor that they had lost a son to court only year before the prescribed hiring is drops was full of apologies. Christmas. Nineteen ninety seven was nothing like the previous year Sutton front to the fire. Sally, Steve, Harry and the two cats Tabitha and Trico enjoyed Christmas together. The new year passed and Steve return to work upon it was expected to attend corporate gatherings and networking events. After not returning time to light emits this family. It'd been asked to stay overnight in Glasgow for work in the coming weeks. He told Sally if she was uncomfortable. He was happy to stay time. Sally said it was fine. She would be I k- on a Ryan. Monday, January twenty six nineteen ninety eight Sally looks after Harry and Steve went to work. Steve's nagged student healed from his back Minton injury. He was journeying to the office by taxi still on his crutches sunny plan to dinner party with neighbors. So left to go to the butchers grosses delicatessen, and then purchase some bottles of wine after Sally returned home. Elizabeth macdougall health visitor arrived at three forty five pm with the new apnea alarm for hurry. Attend to four solid took her son to Wilmslow health center, where he received ZIM Yalies -ation jobs. Sally. So her doctor for post nine to check up, and she seemed in Schiff or mood every wasn't examined by the time. Sally, go time around five thirty PM. Harry was asleep was not a wide. Sally. Push the pram through the doorway of hope cottage Steve lighter right time from work. That evening the television zone and Sally was breastfeeding. Hurry in the bedroom. He seemed uninterested Sally past Harry to his father. He pulled some silly faces to amuse his son Steve put Harry in his bouncing chair and headed downstairs to make Christopher bottle. Instead he was gone for any a few minutes. Steve was downstairs. Sally look to their son. An immediately noticed something was wrong. Harry. Looked pile solid picked him up. And he felt limb was paralysed. She could do was scream for husband rushed up the stairs. Steve attempted to gently resuscitate his son on the bed. Remember the team must push harder on a hard surface as he tried to save his son's life. Sally ran down. Stairs dowd. Nine nine nine. The cool was made nine twenty seven PM the operator roster speak to Steve as he was the one resuscitating Harry. Sally shouted to stave to pick up the bedroom. Fine, but did not panic. She accidentally hung up the operator cooled back and Steve was told what to do throughout the next nine minutes. He pumped his son's chest and blue air into his lungs. Nothing's working Sally found the keys to the back door and headed to the garden gate. Paramedics arrived at nine thirty six PM. And they greeted Sally. Who was hysterical? They rushed up stairs and took over from Steve making further attempts to resuscitate, Harry. The paramedics didn't. Notice any signs of our trauma to the infant three minutes later. Paramedics rushed hurry to Michael's field hospital along with Sally. He was extremely distressed. She told them that. This was the second time. This had happened. Steve wasn't as mobile followed them in a taxi when they arrived Sally was sent to the same whiting Ramos before she screamed at the nurse who took her to a different waiting area. After Steve arrived the couple awaiting speechless. Announce break the silence, untold them. They should say goodbye to their son. Are we Clark passed away the ten forty one PM on January twenty six nineteen ninety eight? He was just eight weeks old. Sully Steve Clarke cost for specialist pediatric pathologists to carry out the postmortem as they wanted to know why the second of that shoulder. Also died unexpectedly doctor Allen Williams, the general pathologist MacOS field hospital carried out the procedure examined. Harry's body for signs of breathing to Williams. It carried out the post-mortem on silence. Steve's first son Christopher. Complete shocker their loss. Selene Steve might they're white home in a taxi they'd been back at hope cottage belly twenty minutes when they received knock on the door. Doctor had been sent by the hospital. He said there had been a report of a sick, baby. The address Sally's grief was uncontrollable. As before to police officers arrived at hope cottage, they took photos of the bedroom and was sympathetic to the couple's loss. The visit was expected and Sally Ann. Steve not alarmed they answered every question posed to them zone. Asli is they're able Celine. Steve thought is would be last time a police officer would dark their door the coroner's office, eventually cold and Sally was gently asked about the final days of Harry's. Life Sally explained the Tari had a block knows was given nasal drops that were prescribed by emergency doctor. She was told the soon as the mortem was completed. They would be able to confirm what had happened each day. Selene Steve called the coroner's office. Asking for news each time. They were told another test would be needed. Days turn to weeks the couple were frustrated with the delays. But we're told that it was completely retained. On the morning, February twenty third nineteen ninety eight Steve Clark was relaxing in the buff dressed in just a dressing gown. His wife was downstairs in the kitchen making breakfast through a window. Sally saw two 'cause polite outside the property. Watching is the five figures approached she knocked on the window glass is the front door was difficult to why Penn she directed them round to the back door. Sally was greeted by five. Police officials Detective Inspector John Gardner introduced himself, y'all. Sally husband was time. Sally said he was shouted up to stave that the police were here Steve out to the bar and began to dry self off Saudi of the officers a Cup of tea or coffee. They refused. To gesture. Stephen to the kitchen is the Detective Inspector explain that this son did not die of natural causes that was signed of abuse. Harry Clark was unlawfully killed in disbelief. Steve told them they had to be joking. But Sahlin Stephen Clarke were arrested in connection with the murder of their second son, Harry the couple would take into separate bedrooms. So that could put on some clothes. Sally told the offices. You are making a terrible mistake. She pleaded with them to at least letter travel in the same car as a husband. Request. Was granted as long as the couple didn't speak to one. Another in. Silence. Sally and Steve held hands throughout the entire journey. When they arrived at the station, they were separated pockets were emptied that shoelaces and bells were removed. Sally was interviewed. I she declined the offer for a lawyer. She just wanted to know why babies died and having an open conversation with police officers might help achieve that. The officers were relaxed salutations. She was asked about what she wanted a family. She explained that she was insured first wanting to build her career as a lawyer, she knew her biological clock was taking she told the officers that after Christopher was born our entire outlook changed. The most Sally spoke the more on his she was she told them. She felt fat when she was pregnant wasn't comfortable. She said occasionally, she missed her friends and after Steve injured himself playing badminton. It was hard looking after both him and baby. She told the officers that Christopher was a quiet baby. Harry was more demanding Sally laughed and smiled. She recalled the sleepless nights jokingly remarked, the little bugger by officers took note of a comment. Saudi was then asked about some injuries that were found during Harry's postmortem. She couldn't explain how he got them after the interviews. Finished Sally was taken to a police. So. Police searched through hope cottage. Steve Clark was interviewed. Three hours light to the police return to Sally cell. She was taken to be interviewed. Again, they asked about the care of next infant program through which Harry was being monitored. By also asked about Sally's alcohol problems. She told them everything. Four thirty pm that day. The couple were released on bio they're expected to report to the police station into months time. A month earlier on January twenty seventh nineteen Ninety-Eight died after Harry's death doctor Allen Williams carried out the autopsy talk to Williams or dental signs that Harry was shaken you found hemorrhages in Harry's retinas swelling in his spinal cord one of his ribs had been fractured and another dislocated under the belief that Harry was murdered informed. Both Detective Inspector John Gardner. Professor markel. Green a forensic pathologist and professor forensic medicine Sheffield university. He told them both Jew to the condition of Harry's body. He believed the infant was shaken to death further testing was completed by os field hospital which identified the presence of the bacteria staphylococcus, aureus non-sterile conditions such as morgues or a breeding ground for this bacteria with contracted when alive could be fatal. The results of this test. A micro biology report did not grace a courtroom until four years later. Now where they should retain the services of a criminal solicitor. Steve Clark was put in touch with Mike Mackey of criminal defense. Solicitors Burton Copeland during the meeting. He asked Stephen Sally, what they told police Sally replied, everything the solicitor toll the not to have any more conversations about what had happened unless he was there. Selene Steve decided not to tell their friends or family. The return time in a way to the call from Mike Mackey to tell them the nightmare was over. Finally, the telephone rang. It was Mike machi- Steve was told he would no longer need to report Wilms like police station. He'd been cleared of murder Steve hood, a deep breath before the solicitor told him that is wife alone would likely be standing trial for the murder of both sons sunny was shocked by the news, but believe that she had nothing to fear. She hadn't done anything wrong. After a visit to the police station. Sally was released on bail to reside at hope cottage. She was told. She must report to the police station three times a week and had to surrender her passport. The couple still can bed to tell anyone Saudi was questioned number of times by police, but declined to answer any questions on the advice of her solicitor. Truly after Sally was released on bio, she found out. She was pregnant certainly wasn't something the couple at planned. They told us solicitor Mark McKay about the news, but he was far from happy. It was worried that could spur the Crown Prosecution Service into action. The CPS believes Sally go pregnant on purpose. Mullick mukisa believed that the CPS might want to take their baby into custody. Silenced got in touch with family law. Solicitor who arranged an appointment with the local authority the child protection units and social services the couple were assigned a social worker who interviewed them both at length given the circumstances. It was agreed the ones the baby was born Sally and Steve could remain within new showed in the special baby care unit at the hospital for ten days. They were not allowed to be alone with the infant the baby within after stay with. The foster family Stephen Sally would be allowed to see that show two hours a day. On November thirtieth nineteen ninety eight Sally gave birth to her third, son. He was taken into a special babycare unit and selene Steve no longer allowed unsupervised contact with him. He spent ten days at the hospital before being placed into foster care. Silence. Stay spend the Christmas period of nineteen ninety eight between hope cottage babies foster parents in the new year the couple knew they would need money to mountain adequate defense and a lot of it. Steve went to the Bank for a loan would be for several hundred thousand pounds the end of July nineteen ninety nine Sally again reported to wombs like police station she had been doing since the previous year this time. She was charged with murdering both Christopher and Harry Clark. The Crown Prosecution Service was serious. And there was no way the charges were going to be dismissed. Committal hearing in macrophylla magistrates court place to prove if there was enough evidence to go to trial on their way to the hearings. Stephen Sally were accosted by photographer attempts to keep the hearing quite a well and truly over. It was unlikely that the charge for Harry's death would be dropped. But John Kelsey fry acting as junior counsel for Sally Clark informed her and Steve that the charge for Christopher's death would almost certainly be dismissed making the crown's case a hard one to prove Jillian Bevan QC was the leading barrister, but also be representing Sally in court. If the case went to trial. Dr Allen Williams, you carry carried out the postmortems took to the stand confirmed. The when he examined Christopher's body. It showed. No external signs that pointed to a cause of death detailed the split to Christopher's upper lip a small number of fingertip bruises a small amount of blood in his lungs. The time doctor Allen Williams believed that the split in Christopher's lip and the bruises were caused during the resuscitation attempts. He then went on to detail is findings when carrying out postmortem on Harry, one of Harry's. Ritz was fractured. An another dislocated that was swelling and its spinal cord there were also retinal hemorrhages in his eyes talked to Williams said there was no natural cause for these injuries. He believed that Harriet died after being violently shaken after he reexamined his findings on Christopher now. Believe that the baby boy died after being smothered. He told the hearing the Tutt hiring passed away. He would not have reviewed the details on Christopher's death. Dr Williams was asked how much blood in a child's lungs would be significant specifically the percentage of red blood cells of the trying to avoid Cering the question he said less than ten percent would not basic -nificant. Professor Michael Green forma high office pathologist he completed the test school this tiny five percent, professor took to the stand confirm. The five percent was low an airway obstruction couldn't be considered contradicting Dr Williams's belief. The Christopher was smothered. Professor green then explained he could not find any natural reason. Why Harry Clark would have retinal hemorrhages? He provided the cause of death. Both Christopher and Harry Zana's attained. In other words, he could not confirm how we the troll died. After professor green doctor Allen Williams had given evidence. Professor, sir. Roy meadow address the hearing on behalf of the Crown Prosecution Service an expert on showed abuse who had been knighted in nineteen ninety eight for services to child health. He'd graced the cause numerous times providing counselling testimony on countless baby murder cases. Professor ROY meadow who'd written a book will be ABC of child abuse in which he had som is in a single family wants sudden infant death is a tragedy to suspicious threes. Murder until proven otherwise you dress the hearing and spoke of research paper, he had completed which featured eighty one cases that Renisha claimed to be caught death. When in fact, fifty were proved to be murder. He was certain Christopher died from being smothered. The defense team of John Kelsey, fry QC in criminal solicitor. Mike Mackie were confident that the charge for Christopher's death would be dropped. They felt that the evidence from the prosecution lacked any credibility talk to Alan Williams. And professor Michael Green. The prosecution's own expert. Witnesses could not agree on how Christopher night. However is both experts agreed to hurry was shaken this would be more difficult to dismiss especially j to the hemorrhages found in his retinas. After a two day committal hearing the magistrate decided the Sally cog would be standing trial for murdering her sons Christopher, and Harry a trial was set for Tiber eleventh nineteen ninety nine. Prior to the trial on August, fourth a meeting took place between doctor Allen Williams, you gave evidence at the committal. Hearing a pediatric pathologist professor berry who would be giving evidence on behalf of Sally Clark, an impartial consultant paediatrician for the family division together. They would further examine the evidence in which doctor Allen Williams identified they were hemorrhages in Harry's retinas. The three men viewed the slides under a microscope. They realized the doctor Allen Williams had made a huge mistake. There were not any hemorrhages in Harry's retinas. This is the end of episode twenty one to hear more on the trial the outcome and the fallout of the case, please tune in next time. Thank you for listening and special. Thanks to our patriot supporters for more information, please visit they walk among us podcast dot com. From january. I nineteen seventy six through the end of March nineteen seventy seven the metro Detroit area was the site of nine child murders. Three of those cases are resolved. But the other six cases remain open with most of these data tributed to the as yet. Unidentified Oakland County child killer. Don't talk to strangers as a long form podcast focused on the series of unresolved child murders. Join us as we explore the stories of these young victims the impact on their families and the community. And what happened the investigation into these crimes? Subscribe to don't talk to strangers on apple podcasts, Stitcher or your favorite pod. Catcher. Support for they walk. Among us is brought to you by ADT ADT can now design and install a smart time. Just for you backed by twenty four seven protection, the new small-time is customizable to your lifestyle and make you feel safe for listening to this podcast. For instance, you can say lockup service and ADT will lock your doors, close the guarantor an arm. Your system ADT will set up your home with multiple smart devices and security features like video doorbells, cameras locks and more. Visit ADT dot com slash podcast to learn how ADT can design and install secure smart home just for year.

Stephen Sally Sally Selene Steve Christopher Harry Sally Clark hope cottage Stephen Sally Clark ADT Steve Clark Stephen Clarke Dr Allen Williams Harry Richard Clark Sally husband Sally Ann ADT ADT canal London Christopher Joshua Clark Saudi
A Fathers Invention and Physical Therapy Offer Mobility, Hope for Kids With Spinal Cord Injuries

Move Forward Radio

42:45 min | 6 months ago

A Fathers Invention and Physical Therapy Offer Mobility, Hope for Kids With Spinal Cord Injuries

"The move forward radio is brought to you by choose. PTA Dot Com the official Consumer Sumer Information website of the American Physical Therapy Association. Find a physical therapist near you at choose. PT Dot Com. Welcome to move forward radio. I'm Eric Reese Taylor. And Allie Moreland new. Before their son Brody was born that he would face significant challenges from Spina Bifida Africa Taylor acknowledges that he initially mourned for all the activities that brody would never experience. His perspective changed quickly though. Thanks to his sons irrepressible spirit and the knowledge and skills of Gertie Monta valley a pediatric physical therapist. Who worked intensively with the toddler? Taylor had a knack for fixing things in improvising solutions. Asians set to work inventing and perfecting a mobility device for his son. That would come to be known as the frog. It changed brody's life by sharpening his abilities and broadening his arise and and it also started with Taylor now calls his hobby producing the frog at little or no cost to share with children and their families around the world brody also greatly benefited benefited from targeted electrical stimulation. A physical therapy intervention that Gertie says holds great promise for children with Spina Bifida spinal cord injuries and other disabling conditions in this episode of move forward radio. She shares her research. Findings based on Brody's experiences. Here's our conversation with Taylor and Gertie. Can you tell us a little bit about your son. Brody and the physical and mobility issues that led to your basically literally taking matters into your own hands. I mean I. I've read that your mind initially went understandably understandably to all kinds of things that your son couldn't do but obviously that changed quite a bit along the way so so first of all tell us a little bit about brody sure. Yeah yeah whole first off. Yeah thanks for having me here. This is my first podcast interview. Somebody excited yeah but anyway so brody was born with SPINA BIFIDA and spinal cord atrophy back in April of twenty seventeen so essentially basically he is paralyzed from his chest down and you know there was first year. We didn't really know a lot about you. Know what he was couldn't couldn't do. We were still trying to figure out a lot of that. A lot of doctors visits a lot of physical therapy uh-huh to really kind of get his body figured out but yeah so essentially He is paralyzed from the chest down. which obviously really limits his mobility right and like like you said you know when I realize we're going to have a child with Spina Bifida You know he was still in the womb. And you know we were. You know you you just hits you that you know you think negatively whenever you hear bad news like this about all the things you know you were hoping to do with your son that you might not. We'll do anymore. You start thinking very negatively but you know really. I didn't take her long. I mean a week or two weeks just realize what who cares if maybe he can't. I play football like I did. There's so many more things that he he can do And so then then you wanted to adopt that mindset of you. Know bolstering what he can. I do I think that's kind of worth for all came from this kind of from from that. Mindset Taylor or something about brody spirit or something early on they kind of told you that not only were you projecting your own hopes for him but he was showing you that he had this spirit and that he would be able to do things and You Know Dad mom and dad just work with me here. Yeah I I think early will agree with me on this but we we started physical therapy back when he was You know six months old and right off the bat he was. I mean just so such a great. You know as far as like you know trying to you know. Help US help him improve you. Know what do I mean. He was just so great about about doing that. So motivated at such a such a young age And then by the time he was year old we we had them in a a baby. Wheelchair is it's actually what we had modified it So it would fit him and took it. I mean a half hour As all the training branding that you needed Learn how to go forward and backwards. No I mean you couldn't turn took awhile a long while before he's turn but he was motivated and he I mean he was in that. Ah for quite a while he was going forward and backwards in it and had the drive to move. I think is a very strong spirit when it comes to Exploring this world so Taylor I wanted to ask you what your line of work is. You're you're not inventor by trade right but somehow you got it in your head To try ride to create a project that that To to help improve brody's mobility. Can you talk about how you got that idea in the first place when in his life you got it. So your background background on me. I'm engineer by trade. and not a inventor really. I grew up on a farm so I I've made made things you know on on the farm with my dad. My Dad it was very mechanically minded and kind of taught me a lot of that You know I can visualize three D modeling in my head And you know I I'm just kind of you know. I guess you know made that way and I'm always been very curious to So I think that's that's kind of wear are you know How I was able to make the frogs so the idea started with Gertie she gave us and she's really I mean I've I've gotta give her a lot of credit here because she really is the one who taught me to think outside the box when you know in terms of I've brought his mobility and his physical therapy Bat She was making things you know for him and so she she gave us a Scooter Board Board basically a homemade scooter board just to aboard with some Castro wheels on the bottom of it She said tried this. Lay Him on it at home on. You know on the kitchen floor and see if he can skate around on his on his stomach. And so we did and it worked okay I saw some limitations as far as he couldn't go on the carpet his hands and get stuck underneath of it I'm he couldn't lay his head down on the floor when he got tired Just those kinds of things so I started tinkering around And it probably took about a month before I built was able to build the the first working model frog. And tell us how how you got the name the frog for it. The original name for the frog came from guess the very first model which doesn't look anything like the way it looks now but it kind of kind of had an upward slant kind of had to CASTER wheels in front and a big wheel in the back and so it just you know the shape of it looked like the frog and you know so we kind of called it the wrong then and then once once he started using you know kind of a modern frog. He kind of adopted Almost a hop UH with With his arms on carpet especially To really help propel themselves forward a lot faster and so the name. Just okay. Well that's that's interesting let let's bring in Gertie here You worked obviously worked with Worked with brody from a very early age and as Taylor just said you develop a or kind of presented some kind of early models of mobility devices. That could help him. Could you kind of talk about what you saw in brody when you first started seeing him and sort of how you worked with Worked with Taylor to kind of develop the idea that there might be a better product for him to us so I started seeing him when he was six months old and like Taylor was saying he had no movement and no sensation below his page who it was totally paralyzed and he would be considered a pretty severe case off? SPINA BIFIDA I knew had to get him mobile and I I was using two separate approaches the one at wanted to talk his paralyzed muscle start filing and I used electrical stimulation relation for that and second. I knew I had to find adaptive equipment that would allow him to be as close to the positions visions. That other kids were his age. So we got in a stander at nine months old For a couple hours each day like other kids at that age you know nine months they start standing. Toby felt it was important for his mental and physical growth and for his hips To be up and standing and like that was saying they gave him a little baby wheelchair. It's called the Zach So he could get mobile and go places What I've seen over the last thirty day so years as a pediatric physical therapist? Is that the kids the COMP move if you don't give them away way to move they become watchers. You know they just in their place and getting detained by other people doing stuff. But the kids that get mobility ability regardless if it is A power wheelchair that. There's a little baby wheelchair if it is the fog. They become doers. You know they're gonNA be right in the midst all the fun and what I wanted for thirty right. Were you surprised that the kind of with the speed with which Taylor came up with something thing that That was an improvement on what was already out there. See when gave him the food caller that was he on the market. I told him that it. It has never worked for me for any child. And exactly for the reasons that Taylor was describing. It has four wheels and a platform to kids would get their fingers card and then when they were tired they had to. Just let the head hang down you know. And it didn't have the feedback like the frog so for the flock since It goes forward and backwards Tito's backwards and forwards. Then you push with your arms here up and when you don't you can you head down your body. And he goes down to the normalcy back like another child. That can use their body so when they push was there on the up and then when they don't push their down so I loved. I loved that feedback that he gave him so. I think it really helped. That Taylor hadn't seen what else was on the market. So he had like Texas fresh and brilliant mind could come up with a totally new idea that just had never been made and he and he wasn't even aware of what the limitations -tations might be so therefore he kind of looked. Pass them right right. I think he just looked at brody and his ability and then just with trying to to adapt the floor to what Brody Cook do and Bodey a strong with his mom he can hold his head off you know that he's able to use the strong part of his body. You'll be mobile Taylor can you talk about what was kind of going through your mind Early on and again. This might be an early early prototype of the the fraud but when you first saw that what you had created was going to help your son in a in a way that the other products The other more rudimentary products had not sort of sort of how you felt at that point about the possibilities. Yeah so it took a while to get to kind of the early version of the frog. That actually worked for once. We got to that to that point and he was able to move. I mean I it was just you know a few feet across the kitchen floor. I mean he was doing it. You know seemingly much easier much more happy than than he was You know in the early models of the frog with that platform crawler. The the school board So then once we kind of saw him up but he could move and he could do it. You know pretty easily. Then we started really adapting and getting to the point where you go all around the house and so I guess the yeah the first model that works for Brody we were excited. Just for Brody QR We wanted to show Gertie What would we'd made just so that we could get feedback feedback from her about how to improve? Its brody that kind of thing But as soon as we should dirty she said there's nothing out there like this that I'm aware of Thank thank you would work for some of my other children. I'm you know. She asked us if we could Make her a couple of models that she could test tests that with with her kids and the ones we heard that wasn't anything like this and it could help children. You know just a live off. Wow we really need to get this out there to our kids right right and I wanna I wanna get to that shortly but but first of all Gertie I wanted to ask you A. You've kind of touched on this a little bit but could you talk a little bit more. What about what the frog in particular that products therapeutic benefits are for brody and the ways in which those benefits might differ from from other other models? It's or other similar products that you've seen before that yes absolutely so For one the fork is they light and can move very easily So depending on if you want to have the move or if you want to have the todd Worked really hard. You can adjust the fog so when you're just the wheels and we also have like a counterbalance in the back. They can either make it really easy for the kids is to move or like for some kids that I needed to get stronger with their arms. I made it actually a little bit harder so it could really get them to push against gravity and keep the heavenly electronic up So it gives me a lot of options to adjust and then what happens with kids that can move for example the frog it helps their balance putting motor to develop over stupid system. We have to move in space so he can go forward backwards. He can spin in circles and all of that helps balance For children that have to sit a lot either. Wheelchairs which a SIP because they can't move They have the same problem that we can get which means the back gets around They're not as strong and For the kids that are paralyzed have cerebral palsy. Sometimes you get like really tight hips. So they can't extend the hips anymore being in the fall if you get beautiful extension of the whole back and you're back muscles really have to fire while you're in there at the same time you get extensions. uh-huh goes in there so you working on preventing contractions at the same time. So you really addressing. I'm not a different issues. I would think there has to be psychological benefits to Then that the child realizes that he or she can do these things and they kind of propels them to to want to try to do more than perhaps they would otherwise. You're absolutely right. I mean it was once brody figure out how to use the fog walk when you would carry him. He would make like this movement with his arms like he would be in the flock when he wanted to move. You know so idea like in order to move you know have to lose that and that was kind of his signed to us like I I WANNA get down. There was still little. You couldn't say I WANNA get down there when you could move his body body for it right. I mean he couldn't say it but you could see it that he wanted to do that. Yeah Yeah Taylor I WANNA talk with you shortly about your efforts is to share the Prague with fog with other kids who would benefit from it. But I can you and or Gertie. Oh with whichever one talk a little bit about. What makes a child a good candidate for the device vice in terms of user her age and physical abilities this one? Yeah sure I so I think there's a certain age Developmentally which is around like nine months when kids want to move forward so when I so like the Fox with some of my other patients I kind of look at that. Mental Age doesn't have to be physical but mental age of about nine months. You know where they show some desire to for We then in terms of their ability they have to be able to hold the head up against gravity. Foot means like fifteen eighteen seconds and they have to be able to move the arms forward but otherwise I think it's great for children with Spina Bifida UH with Spinal cord injury Children that are missing legs I've used it in my children who have down syndrome. That are really weak with the upper body and I wanted them to kind of get idea about pushing with the In holding their head up for they could actually learn how to call. And that way I only have to address one part of carling which was the arms and head up with the legs at the same time and in children with cerebral palsy. It would be the same idea that they could really work on the upper body strength and on the things over there which would help them later in life life like if they have to use a walker to hold themselves up or hopefully you know when they can walk with crutches or something like that Taylor anything to add had to that? Yeah I mean dirty kind of addressed the the main things there I will say. Yeah we do have a seven month old little girl right now using the frog van. That video of her and she's using it fantastic and it's so great to see that because my knowledge there really isn't mobility device for children as young as as you know seven months They can they can use dynamically you know to get around the entire house and so I think that's that's really exciting to see you know a baby you know using using the frog who wouldn't be noble otherwise and now they are especially you know at that age. Everything is on the floor so all the toys is on the floor so I think it was limitation the baby wheelchair. We will using the bag that all the toys were on the floor so we could put stuff enough for him that was at that level. Where the sips out is but then he couldn't reach the toys that were on the floor? We're rolling on the floor so so With the fog. That is exactly what you can be. You know all this stuff. That's on the floor that the other kid play with a quick break to encourage you to move. Physical physical activity is associated with reduced risk of chronic disease not to mention improve bone health cognitive function way control and overall quality of life simply put more movement is the gateway to better health. Needs some help to get going. Physical Therapists are movement. Experts use exercise hands on on care and patient education to help you meet your goals. You can contact a PT directly for an evaluation learn more and find a physical therapist near you at Sousse. PT Dot Com. Are there safety concerns that people should know about in terms of for instance things like supervision. Sure Yeah I mean we always want you know especially whenever children are learning frog. 'cause it's not one of those things that you you put him in there in an off they go there there. Is You know at some time period that they need You know some pretty close supervision While they're first learning because like dirty mentioned you know with with the tilting feature You know their their head and their chest is is is not fixed at a at a height off the ground They can lower their head to the ground. This is one of the big benefits of the frog but it also You know does have some safety concerns if they don't quite understand that You know that that that movement there that they can you know essentially drop their their arms and hit their head on the ground of that kind of thing so we do every every frog ship we have ahead safety pad that we include You know basically to use for training. Ah Fell Chris. On the front provides a barrier between their their head and floor just in case there on a hard surface. So don't injure their head The only other other thing is with the placement of the wheels. There's a possibility that child could get there in their hands. You know to the wheels under they'll be able to other moving forward and and this was actually addressed with a wheel guard. which is you know something which I think it's pretty new? As far as I'm ability devices are concerned or maybe unique to the frog just in particular but it's basically a guard that goes over the wheel that kind of floats on the ground and so that prevents children's fingers from going underneath the wheel themselves so we see that you know with other children to learn how to crawl that. Sometimes they bumped ahead. You know just this point. They're not in a device you know so it's the same with the plot if you don't hold your hip hop and push with your If you just let your own go then you could potentially bump your head on the gun. Is there much of a learning curve for a for a kid to To kind of get used to using the frog or is it pretty much intuitive as is it as as they go along with it I think every child is different with brody progression. You know it took us a while you know to you know create the first frog that is like the current frogs and so he had a lot of time another crawling. You know other adaptations of the frog. Before he's actually. I won once he the first you know real one plastic and everything and he was already pretty advanced and it was already going around the house. But it's still been a progression. I mean I used to. He wasn't very spatially aware. And I think that comes with just not being able to move around in space. You know in in his environment armament. He just wasn't especially away with around him and you know He. Would you know run into some some walls run into some some corners on on the cabinets but after after he kind of learned his body and learn how to use it. It took maybe a month and he was. You know really really good navigating frog I would agree with Taylor you know. I think a lot of people think you put the child into the frog and they just take off and that is not the case you know they have to just kind of learn how to move in the fog. And sometimes I think Taylor Alley Brody's parents did a great job. Sometimes to just put him in there and let it let him figure out what to do so they give him time there to figure out his body in the fog and I. I think that's true for all the other children I've seen and I think that was certainly something. Sounds like some hands were thinking should work like really. Yeah That they know how can they in A. It's just takes a little bit over time when we first started out. We put brody in there for five minutes time ten minutes and you'll put him on the carpet carpet really not necessarily to be mobile but to learn how to balance worked on on the frog. No learn how I needed to push up the push so you know bring himself down. I'm how to turn that kind of thing so Yeah Tha taking it. Slow letting your child figure out the balance I is is is the the first step and then also You know trying different settings so different wheel placements you know forward or backward different Counterbalance weights the thing to to try to. I guess to an extent it's almost teaching or allowing the child to regard the device as being an extension of themselves exactly. Yeah absolutely yeah Taylor. The FROG has a website with more information. And there's a go fund me page as well in keeping with your goal of giving away frogs to due to any kid who benefit from it. Can you talk about all that and share those details that Web address and so on sure so first off our website is frog mobility LLC DOT COM And our GOFUNDME page is go. Fund me Dot Com slash health. Brody get kids moving linked to that on our website too so so whenever we whenever we started This kind of the FROG project as we call it you know. Kind of our mission to Get frogs to other children We wanted to do it in a way that was you know. Low zero cost to other families because as a parent of a child with special needs needs equipment and medical expenses are very expensive and there. There are organizations insurance does provide assistance and for a lot of these things but you know jumping through the hoops just a hassle. I thought well if we can produce it inexpensively and then basically how we ended ended up this. If if you can afford the three hundred dollars at cost us to make it and ship it you can pay that or you can pay all the way down to zero. You choose So we do a giveaway about seventy five percent of them Right now for free and how many What kind of a response have you gotten so far? So we've gotten a really really good response from you. Know the parents who whose children have been able to to use it. I mean there. There are some children that once they get it they. They realized it was wasn't quite for what their child needed necessarily. But yeah for the vast majority. We've gotten a very good response You know really we've got about a hundred and fifty thus far Two families About seven different countries and we actually just a follow up email here here recently just to see how things were going and we got an overwhelming response from parents sending us videos and pictures of the child using the frog. And you know there's been a lot of trying times in this adventure of ours lot of late nights long hours but to see those children moving around very very rewarding. Did you have any inkling when you first got started with this that you might invent in a product that would be used by people in foreign countries and sending out over one hundred of these things in a relatively short amount of time. When I first started out I just wanted my son to call? That was it and it was that way for a while. And honestly whenever you're ready so there wasn't anything like it and we kind of thought. Well maybe we're onto. There's something here maybe we can help other kids. I thought it'd be fantastic if we could send out. You know fifty of these. In a year's time it'd be fantastic and so you have to have the response we've had has been you know a bit overwhelming at times but really really great and world so you know kind of using that that to catapult. Some of my other ideas got a couple of other products. That will be coming out with your pretty shortly. Well and I WANNA ask you about that. First of all I assume that means that the the fundraising fundraising has has gone. Well enough to enable you to do these things you've also gotten a good response to the gofundme page right. We've had a great response to go for me page You know ever since media started to pick it up and then you know. ABC World News picked it up and that was a huge boost. I'm not not just our fundraising but also to the awareness about the frog. Dogs are our orders you know really skyrocketed after that so yeah fundraising has been great. We've raised about one hundred fifty thousand dollars thus far and that's allowed us to really get some equipment and get some health and you know as far as engineering help and really take on some of the issues we need to be. You know. Take on first to get this tour more children's so I I understand that the frog even received a design award from something called the The Patent Innovation Association creation. So so first of all congratulations on that and second of all you just alluded to having other product ideas. Can you talk a little bit about that. Sure so it's The patient innovation Russian. Awards is what Haitian invasion. Sorry about that patient of right. I didn't know anything about this You know before they contacted us either. It's through the European Institute of Technology Health Segment I guess or help organization. So they're they're nonprofit group of you know a small group of people that basically they scour the Internet you know looking for people whether it'd be patients themselves caregivers you know medical professionals who have created innovative if the vices to help patients who need them And so this is they're coming up on their fourth annual awards ceremony here in December and and so they called us. Oh I guess it was about three months ago told us they were looking at us. You know a as a recipient and So they recently just informed us is that we are one of the three leaders three recipients this year Minnesota yes a worldwide award to give out. So will you be going to that ceremony. You know we we would like to. It's in Paris in on this number second. We thought it would be great to go but Paris in December with two little boys our youngest. He's I guess eight weeks old now right. We decided it wouldn't be a great idea and luckily are wonderful physical therapist dirty has you know has stepped up and she. She's going to be going for us to accept our award. So so Gerda. You'RE GONNA take one for the team and go-to Paris excited about that. Well that's that's very cool so Again I had asked you Taylor about uh other products that you mentioned that you've got some other invention ideas Can can you talk about what those are sure. So we have a model of a toddler baby wheelchair ourselves. Now we call it the GOPRO for go brody and I think I developed the first one back in February or March for Brody and you know basically he was needing a new zip zip sac but those are fairly expensive and so I decide of all I can probably make La- myself and make something similar myself and so we did and it worked great for him and you know currently the current model about half the weight of the Zack. which really kind of helps him? You know especially through through carpeting and that kind of thing and then it's got a high back risk which that's one thing for broady. Since he can't sit up on his own he needed to be strapped into something so it's kind of has a high back breast with chess support And then it's adjustable bowl and in various ways and the feature. We liked the best. Actually it's has a built in potty chair so it oh wow sounds kind of odd yes. I'm kind kind of odd but for children with Spina Bifida you know a lot of them have to do Bowel program inappropriate program So Hell Brody started that it I guess it was about six months ago and so we just basically incorporated this potty chair feature and does go bro and you know instead of having to sit on a potty chair after we do You Know Anima Program for an hour or so you can sit on the go bro. And he was breakfast breakfast if he wants to. You know and and your house and you know it really keeps everything clean and easy clean up and you know he loves it. So that's what really excited about. So do you think of yourself At this point as as kind of your your job being your product designer for for children with disabilities It's a hobby It's I guess more more than a hobby. Now Um Yeah Yeah. 'cause my you know I have another business is my my full time. Job that run Provider our income and so luckily being my own boss and you know having Kind of some free time are free to you know schedule my own time. But I'm able to to spend more time now developing new newark new ideas and things so maybe a second job. I don't know I don't really know what my job title is. I think what works so well so I think a lot of physical there that we worked for so many years with kids. We have ideas but they don't have the mechanical technical skills to make that often we kind of bounce off ideas you know saying well Taylor. Wouldn't it be great to have business and Taylor was really mind kind of you know. Let's it kind of sit. And he has all these ideas and then he just comes up with something amazing using So I think in the line of Heidi is We have kind of developing right. Now it would be or twits Switzerland with SPINA BIFIDA or more towards children with lower extremity paralysis But we will be featuring some of those in June in Phoenix at the PTA conference the next trump. So we invited to speak there Dan and we were gonNA show like three or four of Cater mentioned at the conference not having any background in physical therapy appear in the medical fields. You know really you know my my knowledge as far as needs. Come from Brody's when I see something that brody could benefit from you know. That's that's that's what sparked the idea. That's what sparks motivation And then you know just happens to work for other other children too so I really You Know I. I don't know if that's a fair fair description of An innovator but I just find something that works my my child and or amount. Now Gerdes giving ideas too so but as you're saying there's a definite synergy there between between the the health professionals and and the people with a with a invention and innovate innovation idea. So if you when you get when you get those things together at a conference you you may spark more people. Well that can kind of put those kinds of ideas together both right so Gertie. I wanted to talk with you about something. That's sort of related Earlier this year you were the lead lead author of the report about the effects of something called spinal electrical stimulation on on what the paper that paper called an infant with Spina Bifida week we we know that that infant in fact was brody. So can you tell us What that spinal electrical stimulation? What that's all about? And what the results four with Brody and why you believe the case study might have implications for other children with Spina Bifida so like I said earlier when he came at six months ago I need needed a to address his mobility in two ways. One to do something to activate his muscles and then to to find some equipment so so activating has muscles. We started with electrical stimulation which you put two electrodes on Muscle and then ask the Quran goes through for those like towards the muscle contracts. So initially we started that on all of his lots muscles so the muscles on his bottom the muscle to help for hip extension the muscles on his size to help pony extension and Some Taylor and tally spent hours day placing electrodes on different muscles and activating them for like twenty minutes. At a time you know so they would do the phone of the next twenty minutes. The bag of legs twenty minutes the bottom twenty minutes twenty minutes so it was just the labor intensive and Dan while brody showed contractions in the muscle when the electrodes were not on. There was just nothing. There were no movements spontaneously on dangerously. So I contacted stuff the get along. He is a PhD physical therapist at the Maryland School of Medicine and he's one of the best known specialists in electrical stimulation. And I tell him Brodie's case and I was saying I don't know what else to do to help this child. And then he said well. Why don't you play the electoral directly over over the spine and the bottom of the feet? which is exactly the way the newest school they go from? That's fine too. You know the different muscles all the way to the bottom of the seat and see what he can get there so we did that and Sally Ann Taylor. I mean they're just most Americans mazing parents because they that the every day they were really good reporting back to me what they were seeing and was in about two weeks he started to move without the toilets on him The movements were like him back like a couple of times a day he would flexes hip or extent his knee or Over the ankle but it was something he had never done before. So we used at least the final Electrical stimulation protocol for him everyday only four lakes but then later also for his trunk remember remember. His trunk is partly paralyzed too so then we actually learn to place electrodes higher on his trunk to get his trunk muscles to activate more more now. The amazing part is that doing that. He has gotten much much stronger in his trunk in bottles that were previously paralyzed so now he can sit up on the ground still needs to have like one hand on the ground but he can play with the other ones but he can actually extend his back He's started to be able to get into kneeling like the tall kneeling when he supports like on a little bench or something like that. so He's been able to extend his hips in mailings which again before we muscles that were totally paralyzed. And on top of that he started to have feelings in both legs. So we made like a chart To show which part off his body did he have any feelings and so initially there was nothing you could Pinprick him with a little needle. There was nothing he he could put like ice on his skin. There was nothing he could squeeze his leg. There was nothing and so now this is two years later. Many many many parts of his lower legs And his trunk where he has feeling. Now so we were able to show that in those charts and submit that for publication and They really found our facades ballots and this populace helpless I have started with Five other children to use the same protocol and actually just tonight. They're going to have something on our local. TV Station about House by electrical stimulation has helped another child who is six years old as well to to have movement and sensation. He never had life before. This sounds incredibly significant. Yes I think it is. You know I think to my knowledge and Dr Lon was actually the one who supported that and he's now going around the world and kind of putting those Themselves that they have been nothing before where you could actually get muscles. That were paralyze to start getting activated again. You could get muscles. That would they're stronger But he couldn't get muscles that couldn't fire to fire So espn able to do that. It takes a lot of time and effort. Nothing but it has to bake citing Taylor. I WANNA I wanNA close with you. Given the places that Brody's journey has taken him is taking you and potentially Kind of by virtue of the Frog and then other developments may have taken other children. Do you kind of wonder if h played a part in all this or or at least feel like there's truth in that adage that good things often arise from an adverse circumstances. Yeah it's This is something you know. My my wife and I have talked about and she is You know very much of the mindset and accepting that road is here for a reason and he's putting our lives specifically for a reason and I think as time goes on and you know it's the journey that we've we've kind of been led down with not only with the frog but with This you know East Damn spinal spinal eastern and and how many children. That's helping now and how many will in the future. Maybe there's truth to that you know I've I've never never been a big state believer but I gosh you know. We first heard the news that we were GonNa Spina Bifida all the negatives with our head and then now like y all the positives that have came out of this have been overwhelming. He's helped with more people in his two and a half years. Then most people do in their entire lives Yeah touch more lives and it's been two and a half years multiple do their entire lives so it's just yeah. It's incredible it really is. It definitely changes your perspective. Doesn't it it sure does well. We'll Taylor and Gertie I WanNa thank you so much for speaking with us on new forward radio and and sharing your story with with our listeners. We've really appreciated it. thank you for listening to move for radio insight from our guests for informational purposes only and should not be music substitute for individual treatment by a medical professional subscribe on Apple. podcast Google podcast spotify or find previous episodes choose. PTA DOT com the official consumer information website of the American Physical Therapy Association. Find a physical therapist near you choose. PT Dot Com.

Taylor Alley Brody FROG Eric Reese Taylor Brody Cook Spina Bifida Gertie Spina Bifida Africa Taylor American Physical Therapy Asso Sally Ann Taylor Gertie Monta valley official A. It Allie Moreland frog mobility LLC US SPINA
Season 4 - Episode 36

They Walk Among Us

44:40 min | 6 months ago

Season 4 - Episode 36

"One can to season four episode thirty six of they walk among US podcast dedicated to U K true crime. This is part one of a two part case with the second installment available tomorrow. Listen to caution is advised is this episode contains adult themes than descriptions that some listeners may find distressing on Sunday August fifteenth. Two Thousand and ten police were led to a situation on the cliffs of Beechy head striking in their appearance and reaching over five hundred feet from sea level. The chalk cliffs located on the coastline of East Sussex. Have a darker. Side needs is a well known suicide spot and it is not uncommon for foot patrols known as the beach. He had chaplaincy team to provide intervention and support both the rescued chaplain and police. Negotiators spoke to a fifty six year. Old Woman for three hours desperately trying to persuade her to leave the cliff edge before she was escorted to safety around one PM. The authorities had been alerted by family member that the individual. Georgina Shallan Sally. As she was more commonly known a travel ban too tight courant Life Silas. Cows found close by around the same time. Several police officers attended the five bedroom. Home she had previously shared with her husband in Clay Gate. Surrey Juice Davis seventy miles north quiet affluent and very private. Roughly Ridge looks just like any well to do suburban st in sorry but it's now the center of a major investigation after police found the body. This House yesterday afternoon. Ronnie Wood lives here just up the road but neighbors today have spoken of this shock. I suppose you would crosses a reasonably affluent area but many of us are retired But I am absolutely amazed at some Something like this would happen on a UM after breaking down the front door of the detached property police officers found the body of Sally's husband Richard Challenge. It was clear the sixty one year old had been bludgeoned to death from the cliff edge during her conversations with police negoti axis. Sally confessed to killing her husband. The previous day Saturday August fourteenth. She was taken into custody and was subsequently arrested that evening on suspicion of murder. Sally Challen was charged. Two days later David Sally's youngest son to identify his father's body along with his brother. James The pay visited them mother. Won't she was in custody? Lebron's field women's prison. Sally had not slept and was far from the well-turned woman. They remembered dressed in a prison issue. Tracksuit Roy's cheeks swollen. She couldn't hold back. The teas a post mortem carried out on the body of Richard Shallan confirmed. He died from Severe Blunt Force Trauma. The pathologist concluded that the attack had been focused principally on the right side of the head which resulted in multiple skull fractures who consistent with a blunt instrument possibly hammer they at least nine injuries to Richard Challenge. Hands and arms. They suggested he made some attempts to shield himself before he was count before his death. Richard Sherman had retied previously working as an estate agent. Then selling motor vehicles from his car dealership in Richmond South West London. With news of the incident reaching the press friends and acquaintances. Who had known? Richard UNDIES wife. Sally were interviewed polar ruling grant who had purchased the car dealership. Wesley guarantees from ratchet after his retirement. In two thousand tonight explained. The Tea was not aware of Richard Separation from his wife. Will that Richard was living alone. He was very down. I didn't know anything about it. I pull the ruling transit before that he was very cheerful. We would have a joke together. Speaking about the incident at little he'd seen Richard's wife and how Richard frequently used to visit the car dealership he had sold. The owner of West Lake guarantees states. It is a big shock. It was a very good man only met her twice but he would come in all the time to see how I was getting on my did not know much about selling cars when I took it on but he would come in and help me. One of Sally's brothers Terence. Jenny was interviewed and spoke. About how hard is sister at found the separation and the difficulties she faced. The divorce should have gone through ages ago but Richard just refused to cooperate right at the time it was being reported. The divorce paperwork was G to be finalized any a few weeks after Richard Shallan was found. Dead neighbors were interviewed and one who wished to remain nameless spoke about sally the residents of Roxy Rich said she had this tiny dog. That was mold by folks. She was furious and winter. Roundell the neighbors warning them not to feed the local. Fox's she was quite aggressive. She was a strange woman terrence. Jenny described his sister as a very gentle person but reporters were quick to point out. This comment was in stark contrast to the violence circumstances in which Sally's husband had been found expressing the shawl conduct set. The family felt terrence. Went on to say that. Thi knew of no reason why had happened. Sally and Richard had been married over thirty years in won't seem to be happy. Relationship is the background of the couple was laid bear in the newspaper pages across Burton. It was reported Sally worked as an Office Manager for the Police Federation in Leatherhead Surrey. The Police Federation Being Essentially Union for Police Officers in England and Wales is they are forbidden by law to go on strike. Richard Shallan were tied. But I need two years before he left work. It was brought before a court for phone sleep claiming he was involved in a hit and run accident. The required thirty thousand pounds worth of repairs. He's ninety thousand pound Ferrari sportscar in the alleged incident. You'll sit declared that he had suffered whiplash from Guildford crown cooled. Richard pleaded guilty to attempting to obtain goods by deception and was handed a suspended prison sentence and community service. It was discovered that he had in fact crashed on a Belgian racetrack. It shipped the damage vehicle. Back TO SURREY. Telling police. It had been struck by Laurie close to his home when his insurance company could not trace the Laurie he was said to have struck and launched an investigation subsequently informing. The police challen confessed. The Daily Telegraph had reported on the core case making mention that his wife. Sally who is now in custody for taking Richard's life but forgotten to send over some of the insurance paperwork leaving him unaware he was uninsured for the racing event. Sally Ann Richards profiles on the now defunct to networking site. Friends Reunited provided a glimpse into their home. Life suggesting all was not well. Sandy's profile read married to children. Boys working she was a member of a group tied to separated and divorced. Richard pry follows. I mentioned his unhappiness reading Mary. Two children unfortunately living in clay gay to each sorry Sally Challenge first appeared in a brief hearing it stains magistrates court to face charges before a further appearance. Guilford Crown Court via video link from High Timpee Bromfield. A clean case management hearing was scheduled towards the end of October and Sally entered a plea of not guilty to a charge of murder in December. Two Thousand and ten. Trawl would take place in. May of the following year funeral was held for Richard Sherman. An understated service and Sally was allowed to visit his grave site. A few days later little was known about the reasons why she had taken her husband's life and then travel to the cliffs of Beechy head. That was a great deal of speculation in the press as to her motives and why she had pleaded not guilty. Some meteorologists implied that Sally had been upset. Juta reports the husband's alleged infidelity. It was reported that the couple were in the process of trying to mend their relationship until sally discovered that the husband had been seeing someone else so she attacked him and he dies following the incident. One of Richard Sally's neighbors had been interviewed by a reporter for the Daily Mail and told them about the cause of Sally and Richard Separation. The neighbor who chose to remain nameless said. She moved down to the family home last year into a small house on newest state half a mile away because he kept having affairs and seeing prostitutes. They were giving. It's another guy. I saw Sally. Helping Richard Cliffs and boxes out there. Shed and then they went out on a dinner date on Saturday. The next state was tense. Again she was screaming. I can't live with you and I can't live without you. Several tabloid newspapers reported. The Richard Challenge had been arrested during two thousand nine off the police. Caridad raid on a massage parlor aena short distance from West. Sally worked another night but Clifford bunching be told a journalist for the mirror. Sunlight moved away with some money. She had inherited and live with their youngest son. David the couple's eldest son James was living with his girlfriend speaking about the challenge marriage and confirming that the couple sought to reconcile Clifford. Budgen said apparently had been trying to get back together. She was seen in the garish clearing out boxes. They were quite introverted. He was quite an old man. Not Easy to get on with a friend who also did not want to be identified about the couple. And how Sally dealt the initial break-up I'd nine them for about twenty years. We just in shock now anew. They weren't getting along a new. They had separated after a lot of years together. Sally was quite distressed. About the break-up. She was extremely only after she moved but I heard they will possibly getting back together again though. It was clear that Sally had taken. Richard's life on August fourteenth. Two Thousand and ten. It was hoped an answer to why would become apparent during the trial but even then it would be almost an entire decade before the whole truth would see the light of day. The troll began on Monday June thirteenth. Two Thousand and eleven at Guilford Crown Court. Sally challenge pleaded not guilty to the murder of her husband. Richard Jurors were told by Defense Counsel Patrick Gibbs. Qc Bats at the time of the killing. Sally was suffering from an abnormality of mind and so her mental functions were diminished. Silje barely said a word throughout the trial. My son recognisable from the woman who was known by friends to always be talkative endlessly discussing her husband. Who by all accounts? She was madly in love with now with a hair unkempt. A missing front tooth and two fingers stained yellow from the endless cigarettes. She had been smoking. Walling custody sally was his shadow former self. In her opening remarks the prosecutor Caroline carberry. Qc explain the Sally's actions would you to her. Jealousy and suspicion the husband was romantically involved with someone else. Even though the couple had planned to reconcile the pad in the prosecutors words enjoyed a good life together in large detached house in Surrey. Over a number of years. Sally was suspicious. Her husband was sleeping with other women so often monitored he's emails and phone calls and suspicions would linked to be justified. The couple's relationship slowly dissolved and they split up in two thousand nine caroline. Carberry key said at the time Richard was unaware his wife had secretly purchased a property close to the high nice shed before divorce proceedings began stopping and starting around thirteen times sally at found the separation hop they have friends toltar- to let guy she kept in contact with. Richard and they agree to try and pick up the pieces of their marriage in two thousand and ten an August fourteenth. Sally arrived at the home. The couple of previously shed to help tidy the property which was going to be. Let out those still living apart. The couple plan to travel to Australia for six months to rebuild their relationship decree Nisi cy. It'd be granted on their marriage. This being the provisional stage when the court is satisfied the divorce proceedings can go ahead. But Sally ask for this to be rescinded. An agree to some terms laid out by Richard. He also agree to stop seeing. The women suddenly had suspicions about her husband's faithfulness. They thought the time away out of the country would be the fresh start she said desperately wanted is the pay would tidying the house in rucks leverage. Sally was asked by rich. It's a boy symptoms for lunch. He wanted to cook breakfast. Disppointed being the often I had no food at the property so silent left in the pouring rain to go shopping and returned durant three PM. While Richard was upstairs getting changed Sally noticed that his phone had been moved using the voice. Sally Donald One four seven one in the UK. This provides the cooler with the option to contact. The last number dialed silently. Cooled the number a woman onset. This turned out to be sue. Wells someone that Richard Matt on the networking website dinovite jurors was held. He had made contact with C. Is due to high winds. It was cancelling a boat trip. That the two at plan to the odds of want Richard left a voicemail. C Wilson turn cooled back and unable to get through. We'll say left voice mails suggesting they meet for lunch at home. The parrot previously met several times. Once on a group holiday will die. The relationship was platonic see will would like to tell the court about how she struggled to contact Richard the day after he died. I did call in the next morning. That's afternoon because I thought he might have had a heart attack and was worried. I thought that he was a lovely person. He had a good sense of humor around three thirty PM after cooking. Her husband sausage banking and eggs on Saturday August fourteenth. Sally confronted him about his contact with sue wells so install skiing if perhaps they were going to see each of the following day fully aware. He was making plans with someone else. You replied Dan Question me. Sally Dan Question May is Richard. Shiloh nights at the kitchen table from behind. Sally Hits Him with a Hammer. Which is injuries suggested he had been struck around twenty times. Sandy brought the weapon with concealed. In a handbag she would describe. Our actions is an out of body experience after stuffing a tea towel in his mouth. In case Richard was still breathing. Sally covered the body with Simone blankets. She found in the garage. She took off her socks and went upstairs. Changing into a pair of Richard's trousers a jumper and a pair of his socks. Sally went time where she tied tonight. The was light to return to the scene. She spent the evening the property she shed with her youngest son. He did not notice anything. The would suggest what she had done. The following day. Sally rang her cousin confessing that she had murdered her husband. She was at Beechy head and plan to Tikaram life. Saudi said killed him with a hammer or heat. Tim Lots of times if I can't have him no one can. The police was subsequently contacted. Sally was at first spotted by Ross. Whitaker one of the rescue chaplains that regularly walks area close to the cliff edge. Economy spoke with her before. Police officers arrived at the scene while the cliff edge. Sally repeated her admission that she had taken her husband's life prosecutor Caroline carberry. Qc spoke about Sally's actions telling the court quote taking a weapon from the toolbox that too high as she told police and bring it that day indicates you might think some degree of planning or premeditation. At the time she killed him. She believed that he was having an affair. The his attempts to reconciliation were ruse. Sally challen exhibited behavior which is all too common among people whose relationships are under Strang spying checking emails phone messages feelings of Jealousy. Insecurity am suspicion missing Richard. After that I split up. Sally sent husband an email. Which read wants to be with you. I'm sorry I left mail. So might we have been together so long? I can't see a future without Richard replied including the terms of their reconciliation. We'll consider return only on these terms. You will continue and complete the divorce only with a two hundred thousand pounds settlement then when we go out together it means together. This constant talking to strangers rude and inconsiderate. We will agree to items in the home together to give up smoking to give up your constant interruptions when I am speaking. Sally was asked by Richard to sign what was described as a post. Nuptial Agreement said that he did not have to bear any significant financial cost when the ped- divorced the day before the incident. Sally had visited her solicitor. Told signing anything of this night show was a bad idea. The advice was ignored. Sally was ruled simply wanted her husband back. It was Richard who suggested they travel to Australia? Giving evidence on behalf of the defense both of Sally's sons explained them. Mother's actions were influenced by their fathers dominant behavior in which he exerted control over their mother. As a consequence she suffered low self esteem. She had not been happy for the last ten years. Following the break-up she started to drink more MS diagnosed with depression. She was prescribed medication. Will they? She did not take it a friend of the couple. Sarah Nopal address the Colt telling the jury about the incident in which Richard was arrested and how sally struggle to kype quite. There'd been a ride on a brothel which had involved rich it and she likes sort on the telly Andy typesetter she could not get it out of her mind discussing. Sally witnessed continued. She was madly in love with Richard. She said he was how wild she struggled to be with him. But it was worse to be away from him. Rich was more able to detach himself the impression that Richard wanted to control her. He won't tie to stop smoking. Choose not to talk to people when she was out and she was not to interrupt him. If he was speaking season undescended Sally's cousin was aware that sally was being controlled and testified that reached. Pull the strings in the marriage and Sally was made to dumbs. After Sunday's arrest suicide night was discovered in her car. It rent which it said he would take me back. If I signed a post nuptial agreement my said I would and we bite source solicitors yesterday. Then I found out he was seeing someone and sleeping with them at had. No intention of taking me back. It was all a game so he could get everything he was going to get me to sign and then he should divorce proceedings account live without him said it would take him time but he felt the sign now a find he is seeing women and sleeping with them. He did this in order to get his own back on me all those prostitutes and other women how could he please look after David James and peppy? I'm sorry but a cont live without rich it on my love Sally. A video recording made won't Sally Challen was I interviewed by police was played to the court? Sally told officers that after she traveled in the reign of former marital hyme that Saturday on with a Hamma. She quietly crept up behind her husband is he was eating lunch him again. And again she said if fell to the floor and I hit him again and again I said I hit him twelve times or so and I'll go nothing when I hate him. I'll still left him. I have always loved him as what you have to understand. Even if he treated me like shit couldn't live without him solly told officers that she patchy some alcohol and cigarettes before she penned a suicide at night the following morning she dropped off her youngest son. David his place of work. It's a colleague. Geos restaurant she said to him. You know I love you. Tony in the interview footage. Sally said that after the attack she had I traveled to a multi storey carpark. Finding the cop shot she drive to the cliff edginess Sussex. They got lost. A number of times asking several passes by for directions is the instruction she had printed. Were unclear after she parked her car in the heavy wind. She not Westmont crosses had been planted in the ground. She climbed over the wire at the cliff edge and stood ready to jump during the negotiation. She was told. You'll be leaving your son's without a mother and father. That was the comment which spurred her to take a step back after telling offices how she felt numb after the attack she said wanted to be with. Richard and I don't know why did what I did. I love him but everything was always on his times what he wanted when he wanted it. How we wanted it before. I just took it accepted. I felt if I couldn't have Richard. No one else could Giving testimony from the stand. Sally was asked if she meant to kill her husband. I suppose I must have. She replied she was asked by her defense counsel. Patrick Gibbs did you love him yes she said. Why did you kill him? Deny just didn't think that he wanted to be with me a deny sally replied she had had. I told police that she brought the hammer to break up. Funnier Alva- wintom to say I accept that. This is not the real reason our brothers suggested I say that as it sounded better something triggered mate. Teich the hammer evidence presented by the prosecution consultant forensic psychiatrist. Dr Pull gloomily came to the conclusion that sally was not suffering from any mental disorder could identify at the time he believes. She was of sound mind when she took her husband's life. Saudi documented the disintegration of her marriage in Dari details of which were read to the court. She believed that the offense started in two thousand four after Richard began to attend a sound. Soco's sally made entries every time she thought that's a husband being unfaithful. She counted the number of his Viagra pills to see how many were missing she monitored. He's Internet search. History is facebook account. Alston May to spawn on him and look through his receipts. She even secretly followed him from a nearby carpark she watched on he went into a brothel called. Pandora's box in Surbiton Surrey. She waited for an hour before he left the building. Sally attempted to confront him but upon seeing her he jumped into his car and drove off. Sally also got into her car and followed Richard who sped through the streets back to the property. I Shan't when Sally returned home. She found her husband in the kitchen making himself a cup of tea. He denied the T. Paid for sex explaining that he was arranging Carcelle to one of the employees that he told sally she was going Matt telling her that he had no idea why she thought he was being unfaithful. Sally would like to find the number for the business in Richards. Fine records documenting. The relationship with her husband. Sally challenged Dr is perhaps showing light on her struggles. An extract read as follows Oguz. The two thousand and four asked him for a case. He said he didn't want to be forced to do something he didn't want to do hookah. Sixteen Package V. Viagra in suit jacket. Liar Liar Pants on fire October. Sixth Fan Receipt Dominion Theatre for drinks on June twenty fifth when he said he was the Nabet during November Eleventh Nas three stone in stress November twelfth. Finding London I- tickets when he was in Germany. He doesn't know how they go up. There said he wouldn't pay for my take to Australia. If I didn't stop asking Boston. November thirtieth nothing changed is still the sign embarrassing to watch comments on it. I'm sick of being treated this way. I have my own life to this. Isn't the one I won't December sixteenth of decided? Everyone agrees with me. He's a ladies' man. I'm sick and tired of his behavior every time he sees a young woman. He lays December eleventh two thousand and six a so him going into Pandora's in Surbiton February fifteenth two thousand and eight finding it hard to function time ended work who is sixty thousand nine A. Woman called evidence put forward by the defense to support their argument of diminished. Responsibility came from a psychiatric report produced by Dr Tim X. Y. He concluded that Sally was suffering from a depressive disorder. At the time of the killing the opposite finding to the prosecution Dr Wrecks were the admit with Sally several times and study term medical history. Now if a win cross examined he was forced to admit the tiny disorder. Sally was suffering from the time. May Have Been Mild. The she was highly functioning as part of their strategy. The defense chose not to focus on Richard Challenge Behavior towards his wife much of which would not be known until after the trial family and friends would lighter say they believe that the defense team did not want to attack the character of someone who had been bludgeoned to death as the jury would look unfavourably on the defendant on. Wednesday June twenty second two thousand eleven eleven days after the trial began. The jury retired soundly challenges. Counsel had argued that although sally heartache in her husband's life a mental state was affected due to severe depression loosely mentioning husbands controlling behavior. The jury of six men and six women were faced with three options in regards to their verdict after direction from the judge Christopher cruise line. They were told they had to determine if sally was guilty of a manslaughter. On the grounds of diminished responsibility be manslaughter by provocation. We'll see she had intentionally murdered her husband. Richard Challenge and was of sound mind when she carried out the act. Sally had been presented by the prosecution as a wife who was fixated on revenge for her husband's infidelity. The defense painted a fall more complex picture with some of the facts missing the time. Coercive Control was not widely understood the signs being recognized perhaps they might have been a different outcome uneven a different approach taken by the defense. Furthermore they would details left out unheard by the jury sally. He'd been abused. Not only mentally. But physically jury deliberations followed into the next day taking around eleven and a half hour. Was June twenty third. They arrived detail unanimous decision. The gas rang out in the courtroom. Georgina Sarah Ann. Lewis challen known as Sallie was found guilty of murdering her husband. Richard screens and soaps were heard from the public gallery for members of Sally's family. Who had been supporting her. Throughout the trial she would be facing a life sentence during mitigation her counsel Patrick Gibbs. Qc spoke of Sally's good character before the incident and went onto describe how physical and mental state had been affected before the attack. She's not the danger to anyone. Save arguably to herself. He said greatest punishment here will. Of course be that she really really loved him. He's the only man she ever loved. And she will never be with him again because she killed him though. The judge agreed the T. Could see some influencing factors. He was sentencing Sally for what was described as a frenzied attack. The judge explained. They were signs of premeditation as she had a weapon concealed in her handbag and there was evidence that Sally had taken the same hammer to the home she had shared with rich it three weeks before by had not used it addressing sally who was in tears the judge said you hit him from behind with a Hammer. You deliberately brought from your own home. You couldn't bear his friendship with other women and what jealous thinking. He was sleeping with them. You could never forgive him for going to see a prostitute in two thousand and six you find yourself being not with jealousy of his relationship with other women. You decided. If you couldn't have him nobody would. The judge went on to say you all somebody who was killed the only man you had known and loved and you will have to live knowing what you have done sally. Challen was ordered to serve a minimum of twenty two years behind bars. She was led from the dog. She looked hopeless. I rise firmly fixed on high two sons David James following the verdict detective Chief Inspector Chris. Raimo from Surrey. Police told reporters. This is being an extremely saddened difficult time for the family and friends of this couple in particular their two sons and off thoughts remain with them over the subsequent months. Defense Counsel Patrick Gibbs. Qc successfully argued Sally's case and she was granted leave to appeal the length of her sentence. The case found his way to the Court of Appeal during November. Two thousand eleven five months after Sally was found guilty of the murder of her husband. Richard overseen by the then Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales Lord Judge Mr Justice Royce and Mr Justice Globe the appeal scrutinized. How the trial judge judge? Christopher critchley calculated the minimum term. Sally was to serve referencing. The Criminal Justice Act Two thousand and three judge Critchley. You scheduled twenty one paragraph five. I is. He's starting point win. Sentencing Sally but reduce the term by three years based on the mitigating factors the sentencing guidelines from the Criminal Justice Act reads where the offender takes a knife or other weapons to the scene intending to commit any offence obey. Have it available to use as a weapon and use the knife or other weapon committing the murder? The normally the offense is to be regarded as sufficiently serious for the starting point to be twenty five years what was noticed however was the trawl judge initially adopted. A starting point of fifteen years is based on the facts presented. He did not see the crime to be a case of particularly high seriousness. When the aforementioned section of the Criminal Justice Act regarding taking not just a knife but any weapon to the scene was highlighted. The judge then increase the starting point. The appeal judges disagreed with the judgments of Judge. Critchley on how the sentencing guidelines were applied lighting. The trial judge's initial thoughts. And how the advice on starting points was quote not to be applied mechanistically. The decision was also reached after reading. Some of the statements made by both of Sally Challenge. Sons in which they did not harbour. Any ill will towards their mother only sadness about the situation. In fact Sally sons believed their father drove them mother to do what she did. While the judges precautious taking statements such as these into account they felt sally. Shallan sentence was excessive and should be lowered. Sally's term was reduced with her minimum sentence. Being set to eighteen years Sally's new home was a closed. Category Women's jail closed. Category Prisoners won him the very highest conditions of security and not necessary but to present to higher risk for ripen conditions. Only my pin conditions not appropriate as it is felt they cannot be trusted. Sally was a multiple prisoner undertaking counseling. She was nicknamed drop by fellow inmates. The slightest act of kindness. Oh positive comment would move her to tears to break up the countless hours. Sally spent reading watching television and knitting. A two sons would visit her every month for two hours over a hot drink. James and David spoke about the changes in their lives along with close and the order. Sensual the best thing. That Sally's sons Broncos the comfort that she had not been forgotten they continue to support their mother even though she ended the life of their father. This is the end of episode. Thirty six to hear the concluding. Part of the case of Sally Shallan please tune in tomorrow. Thank you for listening. Very special. Thank you also goes out to one knee patriots producer Matthew Wheelchair and everyone who supports us three patriots. We can be contacted via social media accounts on twitter facebook and instagram. And we welcome listener case suggestions so please do feel free to get in touch. Information on. This episode can be found in the show notes or on my website. They walk among us. Podcast DOT COM

Richard Sally Sally Richard Sally Challen Sally Challenge Georgina Shallan Sally Sally Ann Richards Sally sons Sally Shallan Sally Dan Question Sally Donald murder David James Richard Sherman Richard Shallan Richard Challenge Richard Separation Surrey Patrick Gibbs Richard UNDIES
The ongoing fight to save public broadcasting

Future Tense

29:08 min | 4 months ago

The ongoing fight to save public broadcasting

"This is an ABC podcast as Cova Cases Rising Canada. So does worry. The goal to avoid what's happening in Italy. Prime Minister has announced the most drastic limits to allies that the UK has ever seen in living memory. The aim is to get the facts straight. How does this work? How does it transmit? Where does it want to go today? The psychological impact of isolation and quarantine. And how we can get rounded. Psychological impact have established national covert Nineteen Eunice based on scar the headquarters in Dublin to coordinate the forces. Respond YOU EARLY DIAGNOSIS SWAB test? That returns results in one hour has been approved in record time in the US and now in Australia the BBC Artie the CBC and of course the ABC in terms of national crisis the value of truly independent public broadcasting speaks for itself that not enough rain has fallen to put the border fire. Despite conditions firefighters are working on Australia the ABC is being emergency reporting mode since around September last year dealing first with the massive transcontinental bushfires and then the spread of Calvin nineteen time and again survey showing that. Australians overwhelmingly trust the information they received from the national public broadcaster in this current crisis the federal government has designated the organization an essential service. Strange thin that only a few weeks ago that very same government was hinting at the ABC could be made to sell off its Sydney and Melbourne headquarters in order to save money. Hello Anthony Fennell. He welcome to feature tents. The Future of public broadcasting is our topic today. And it's certainly not just at the. Abc that things are looking uncertain. It says Sunny Ann Wilson and I'm the CEO of the public media lives known as PM media works with public media worldwide. And I think one of the real sadnesses at the is is that citizens politicians really underbelly public media is what it actually means for society. We're very clear on. We work with academics in public media. Worldwide that underpins democracy. It still has phenomenal reach. It's a public media space that we share a shared space the nation's communities for people to come together be that an audio be that in video be that also now increasingly online in vast ocean media platforms. And I think that's something that really until we've lost it. We probably won't know what we had. I mean we just doing a major scoping exercise on public media worldwide. The something like one hundred and fifty organizations define themselves as public media. Agassi are concerned. His some of those don't really understand what public media raise. It doesn't mean state-owned. It doesn't mean state controlled but very often physical ownership is by a nation is by a state but it how independent that organization is how editorial independence to question. And that's what we're seeing eroded we sit eroded for many years in sub Saharan Africa in Asia now increasingly. We're seeing really under threat in the Western world as well what happened to the Democratic Promise of one thousand nine hundred nine that new dome that moment when the Great Civilizations of Central Europe escapes the cold embrace of Soviet coming. I think one of the things that he's a great concern at the moment is what's happening in western Europe where we saying something we call state capture. Hungry is very clear example. That happened a few years ago. A couple of years ago where we saw that the actual journalists that the people who worked the public media organization that were literally sacked. And then me people were putting we've seen a consolidation of public media round victory bands own media companies and so we have sort of public media becoming yes-men to the state governments of the day that is really a concern because it's happening again more recently in Poland. We're also seeing it threats to check television in the Czech Republic and this is day by day we say is slow. Crete of states overreaching themselves and thinking that they own the public media. One thing we quite commonly is where governments say to journalists producers working for public media organizations. We don't want you to cover the bad stuff. We don't want you covering how much poverty we have. We don't want you challenging us on on on air so we have public media being framed as the enemy of the state. Now that's happened in your part of the world in the in the Pacific I mean most. Clearly it happened in Tonga where the actual prime minister went on Aaron and said that about T. B. C. in Tonga. We're also seeing that. There are other non state actors in many parts of the world. That is supporting the so other states. China very often comes into countries in sub Saharan Africa and supports the state having a greater influence in the public media the National Rural Kosta. And even in the United Kingdom and the baby of course is the example of public media. Blitz come under substantial pressure in recent times. Hasn't it the? Bbc has come under really unusual pressure. We're always used to challenges to the BBC and that's as it should be but here in the UK. In recent months we really seen that Prussia come on from challenges to license fee. We have a situation at the moment. Where ministers have been refusing to come onto the flagship morning radio program. The today programme and we're seeing this separation is really vilifying the baby say and pillorying of the baby say of course there has to be reasonable debate about modernizing organizations like the BBC. But we are seeing things here in the UK as you say. The baby was the founder of public media worldwide. And yet we sing. Challenge right here in the. It's GONNA be a tough battle for them. The I see is for Australian and the part. We play what we do for. The saw is a volatile one central to culture and democracy that being an independent public broadcaster. Stipe broadcasters the communications arm of the government its role is to communicate the messages of the government and certainly not to do anything that would undermine any government message scholley. No-one seriously wants the IDC to be a state broadcaster the former head of the ABC mark. Scott just a few years ago reminding. Australian politicians of the difference between independent public journalism and a propaganda unit so ideologically driven political pressure is having and will continue to have a significant impact on the future of the world's public broadcasters the second major challenge they face relates to the rapidly changing media environment. Sally Ann Wilson's organization longs to use the term public media rather than public broadcaster to reflect the continuing move from analog to digital that migration has been occurring for more than a decade and it seems many public. Broadcasters are still struggling to adapt. I think they dilemma. About using new platforms is something. We're right in the middle of the moment we advocate of public media has to be on platforms that reach the public in the country they operated. I think it's actually important for social media organizations in social media platforms to recognize that those values of public media can actually build trust on those platforms. We produce social media guidelines for public media journalists. Because it's really important. We know that the standards many social media platforms are really really worrying in terms of facts and accuracy. Disinformation but I think we would be very foolish to advocate the public media just separated itself from new platforms. Imagine if it done that when television came in when it was very well established on radio I think it has to be the but it has to set standards of how it's that and it has to really keep broadcasting radio and television athletes cool content production at its core then populate those platforms with its brand with its own values that can be difficult though combat given that these platforms are international platforms after nine by very very rich men very rich. American men or very rich Chinese men so to try and have some influence or control over those platforms even from the the point of view of an organization as big as the BBC is going to be difficult isn't it. It's going to be difficult. But then when ever working in the media beating easy on taking media fold? We've been very focused in the last sort of twenty thirty forty years on technological development. What's happening now with rhinovirus will help us focus on. It's actually the values. It's the way that content is produced the way that content is. Shed actually come back to being more important. You know a lot about the pipes. Now Cross we go back to really looking at the poetry I think public bald cost certainty in a western Europe. I would also include a trillion public bald Gaza. There has proven to be incredibly resilient institutions as so when you look at scientific research on public broadcasting you can actually read that the institution is under pressure in every single book and every single article starting from the nineteen sixties when we got color TV and then when we go to commercial television is the best show on public broadcasting as such as nothing really new and these institutions have proven to be resilient and. I think they're definitely a lot of arguments in the new environment that make the case public broadcasting stronger not weaker but Dutch researcher. Karen don't his own research indicates that many public broadcasters are still filing to find a place in the new media environment that might say their future focused. But the evidence suggests otherwise associate. Professor donors looked at four public broadcasters in Ireland The Netherlands the UK and Belgium now H had its own idiosyncrasies and the BBC of course is enormous in comparison to the others. But for all the difference there was also much they had in common. Basically the research focused on this transition from public broadcasting to public service media moving from a radio and Television Company to company that is active across devices and also engaging with new types of content and stuff like that and in academic research actually have a lot of contributions that really focus on the theory of that transition. Also defend that transition. That's also something I have done myself. And then study. Case studies like an example of a website or an interactive program to kind of evidence or showcase that. This transition has happened or has taken place. I wanted to take more. Let's say bit more long-term evidence based perspective on okay but audibly broadcast surreally public service media institutions or are they still mainly focused on radio and television and what explains for that and while those are shows that they trying to take steps full with that was really to focus on the research. I reach acquired CRISCO conclusion when you look at the practice of these public bald castles than you still see that the focus of their activities over the human resources of the money is still on radio and television which is normal. Because it's something they do. Well it's something. They're still very successful in. Whereas in the online environment they are kind of at best of market entry. M market entrance. So that's obviously quite difficult. Now what you also see. Is that the organizational level. It's also not that easy if you have a traditional staff base that is really focused on radio and television to make that transition so you also always have organizational assistance that is at play in these organizations and then the third issue I observed is that obviously is very difficult for public brawls. Do position themselves between the apples. The Disney's and dinette flexes of this world. That is very complicated issue. These companies very often have higher budgets. Work on an international basis have a completely different proposition are concerned with making people. Watch more doesn't really matter. What our as public walled causes obviously want people to watch in a more diverse way to have also knowledge of of certain things such as culture information documentary stuff like that. So that makes it. You know Netflix does not really too low coach over for public. Broadcasters obviously is very important to reflect society to lead people to that society that is also becoming more diverse so the challenge is very big that you do see. There are still a lot to be done there. Actually and also distribution strategy is very much certainly with the Irish the Belgian and the Dutch public bald kills inspired by economic motives at this bubbly bald causes have faced quite a lot of budget cuts over the last ten years and they actually see the multiplatform era as possibility to gain more avenues and not I say always in first instance as a means to realize the public service objectives better. You're listening to future tense. A radio national podcast exploring the world around US looking for the pathways ahead and signposting the future. I'm Antony Fennell. The public navy alliances editorial manager Christian Porter believes one. Partial solution is for public media organizations to work even more closely to fall more partnerships collaborations curb reductions are vital to the survival of public. And this is for a number of reasons. Despite that broad mandate they exist in a highly competitive commercial and global media landscape which is now I mean the future will be dominated vice streaming services such flex Amazon prime and Disney which certain speed launched tyranny UK so audiences a more fragmented. Annetta and probably media require audiences to cheat in to show. They still have reached in public media. Therefore need visibility audience. Appeal and co-productions allow them wherever. Let's wave commercial. Media will of public meteoroid is Asians to access why the resources and skills but collaboration goes beyond simply enabling visibility. There's a need for more global topics narrow more shared issues than ever before some climate change corona virus will needs global responses global knowledge and Greg Knowledge Exchange. I think just even when we look at the most beloved natural history content from the BBC for example. This is automating collaboration of other public media so that resources pooled and as greater access to more remote areas. If you like. I don't think that's not also forget about news. Exchange and the pooling of resources between international public media to ensure effective coverage. I mean it makes sense to collaborate with like minded organizations of public media organizations to ensure that buries shed ideals around balance impartiality editorial independence and perhaps most importantly public media underpin informed democracy. I mean less than a year ago is too well. Abc was raided by the Federal Police in response to an important piece of Investigative Public Interest Journalism Lisa Challenges Impressions growing worldwide. So now more than ever public media needs come together. It's not just collaborate on content but support one another interface at least challenges So we have those kind of collaborations as multinational collaborations depositaries aries. You'd like to see more of them but there also is an idea that public broadcasting should focus a locally and also be about national identity so how those seemingly competing mandates to be balanced. I don't think it's necessarily true. I think they don't necessarily have to compete. I think drama is becoming multi-lingual. Take the bridge the famous Nordic drama as in both Danish Swedish a role of the public broadcasters to bring an contextualized the world and bring the wells to its audience. Not Collaborations mess actually organization. Cool note vision. That brings together the Finnish Swedish Norwegian Danish Icelandic public broadcasters and allows them to shepherd values to share resources to pull costs and it's all on a comparative level allows them to depending on the size of a broadcaster to contain what they can to produce these incredible dramas documentaries and it's which include to play. I mean Nordic dramas nordic Noah's have spread around the world. I mean it found just as much in Australia the UK swear nothing. That's being a really important collaboration and even public. Private collaborations could be beneficial for public broadcasting in future says Christian porter as long as they're handled carefully needs to be cautioned and there are risks commercial media organizations and private meteorologists have different mandates to public media on the public media organizations as a painful audiences in many places for licence-fee that for accountable to their audience and accountable that full to a public mandate to inform educating entertain. My worry is that this could be weakened that this mandates could be set aside to allow commercial broadcasters to have M- awaits have more say. I do think that's really happened. I think a lot of the collaborations of I've seen across drama and documentaries have allowed actually the public media sort of ethos of impartiality toward independence to be able to help stay a commercial products as well is needed but I think by in large navales of public media outweigh that. It's a difficult time right now. As public broadcasters transitions becoming public media multi-platform meteorology is is the best way for them to compete is to actually educate and ensure that audiences understand what they are. What is the difference between public media organizations and commercial me rotations also difference between socio news from public media and socio news from claiming to social news from facebook? What's the difference between Public Media Maze content and that funded by Netflix increasingly refined public media contents on Netflix On jumping that's necessarily a bad thing so long that essential public mandates on slaw St- public broadcast need to adapt and mutual dance changing audience habits for example. I don't think they will ever be lost. I just worry that. In a lot of places where public broadcasting has and public media has been around for generations a seventy plays in some countries. I worry that maybe ordinances have become Necessarily understand what may offer. In comparison to a commercial services extremely giants you seed is international. Environment is incredibly. Commercial is not respectful of People's privacy of people's data is focusing a lot on fiction on series of films on sports but not on other content types like investigative journalism lag documentaries Razz all. These genres really connect to local cultures to domestic identities to diversity. So I really think that has a strong case for public service broadcasting and actually you also seat at least that's the case in Europe that now with the Global Crisis. Lots of people are turning to public broadcast because these are sources that they trust in times of crisis. We've also seen that when Franz but also Belgian the UK were struck by terrorist attacks. Again you see an increase of people going to radio. Television website of public ball costs so I think all of that actually says the public service broadcasts are here to stay. I really am convinced. That didn't twenty thirty years time. We still have public bald causes because they show their value for society on a daily basis. That doesn't mean they don't make mistakes but this is not the end for public broadcasting while I do think is worrisome. Are Two things. What you've pointed out is the political pressure that I think has become less niche that it has been so you do see that criticism from politicians on public. Broadcasters has grown also pressure on journalists through platforms such as twitter. You see a lot of criticism from politicians on twitter on social media. I think that's really bad evolution. Both dishes should be more reluctant to do that. And Dude respect the independence also the mental independence of journalism and the fourth estate. But the second thing that worries me a bits besides the political and the digital that we already talked about is social disruptions that actually threatened the existence of public world costs was in a lot of countries islands Netherlands Denmark Belgium. I do know whether is also the case in Australia. You see that the audience bard of the audience actually feels the public bald. Gaza is not representing them but it's got presenting progressive urban highly educated diverse elite. Sort speak. And you have more and more people and politicians also used that actually feel the public ball 'cause even while we watch it than they listen to. Radio is not Thursday representing them. Count on this and that criticism is picked up on this. Friedman at Goldsmiths University of London. Professor Friedmann has written extensively about the BBC the mother and perhaps the most influential of all public broadcasters but there are clear lessons for others. He believes well. The evidence shows that certain terms of the BBC. There is an over representation of Oxford. Cambridge graduates a significant over representation of people educated at private school. It talks about the need to address diversity but the fact remains there are very few people of color at the top and there are many people for example cleaners who are much more likely to be people of color and these are issues. That still haven't been resolved when it comes to the question whether it be elitist. I would prefer to put it in another way that the BBC is seen as too close to a lead themselves. I think there's an important difference there partly. It occupies quite insular world in terms of politics around the Westminster bubble. And I'm sure you will have some of the same pressures in Australia as well and it does that. Partly perhaps because of the demographics of the organization partly because that's a quote a cautious approach if your future is to certain extent guaranteed by people within a mile of Westminster. It makes sense to take Westminster incredibly seriously. In fact the Westminster really two focuses the center of all politics. And I think the mistake of doing that. We've seen in terms of the brexit coverage and it is something that we could see again in the future if we start to understand. Politics is something that takes place well beyond just the parliaments assemblies across the world. That's very difficult structural change. It means putting new and putting more people in different places. It means allowing viewers to hear more and different voices and for us to establish mechanisms in order to decide how those voices should come on. Air How those voices should be given space online. None of this is that easy. Perhaps it needs a little bit of letting go but I would want to distinguish it just from some of the laser attacks from its commercial rivals. Who's just make sweeping judgments that all public service media is by definition elitist as if these commercial organizations are just the voice of the people necessarily there are many commercial organizations whose proprietors wine and dine with the elites of the world. So having said that I do think there is this particular role of the public service media to have this relationship with audiences to have a more democratic engagement with them that does upset some of the established norms and the does cause few problems for the power holders. I think in the end that will only contribute to a much more long lasting and fruitful relationship which public media in a much better position to deliver than Private Sector Commissioners. Who off the roll? Radio have one overriding ambition. Which is to make sure they make profits that is not the case public service media who have more scope if they were allowed to do so to generate these much more productive and Democrats relationships as it stands now. I don't think that school card is that wonderful. But that doesn't mean it couldn't be with the kind of democratic renewal and revolution that many of us who've been calling for but as you know there are critics who will say there is no role and no real need for public service media in a platform age avast content your response to then the argument public service media unnecessarily more irrelevant. Because we're in a platform age is a kind of technological deterministic argument. Which while speaking to some truths at the moment is not necessarily the case. I mean the BBC has long innovated technologically over. Its hundred year history and not least with. I plan as well which was very innovative in its age and wasted it into the platform age. The problem is that they face some structural disadvantages. Up against a company like netflix which be deficit financed which has seemingly endless pockets so it is very difficult for public service. Broadcasters to go up against these giants who are less restricted but the idea that platforms in themselves should be hostile environments for public service media. I don't think it's the case. In fact they ought to be more creative more thoughtful more experimental and how they approach platform age how they use these platforms to establish new relationships to break down. Existing reliance on elites and on the status quo. These platforms could actually generate fantastic possibilities for new sources of content. It will be difficult but there is no necessary connection between a platform age prioritizing. The needs of commercial costs as against public service. Media Companies Valuing Public Service Media and ensuring it keeps focused on its mandate to serve the people we heard today from Karen. Don this does Friedman Christian porter and Sally Ann Wilson Go to our website. If you want further details you've been listening to future tense current Savannah that's my co Creator and Co producer. I'm Anthony Fano stay safe cheese. You've been listening to an ABC podcast. Discover more great. Abc. Podcasts live radio and exclusives on the ABC Listen Up.

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Satan's Last Stronghold

Blamestorming

53:44 min | 1 year ago

Satan's Last Stronghold

"Welcome to blame storm in the blames the win in a true world. This plenty of blame to go around twenty plane to go round. You're playing to join Dave Cyrus Marissa's Smith as they blamed still blame store as they blamed storm about today's hot topics. Hey, guys. Welcome to blame storming. Hi. I'm Dave Cyrus with me as always Melissa Smith. Hey, as we also have some guests today. We have Sally. Ann hall. Hello. She's a set alot and LeBron as well. I mostly going to say Hello. Thank you. Sally. Ann is a friend of mine in comedy comedian and other person than I know, of course, from the roast battles the comedy fight clubs, and you do all of them. You do all the the fight clubs actually just they made me an official. I am the official women's studies. Major of fight club. Oh, that's nice. That's good that everyone's getting labels, and Leah is a very respected musician drummer, particularly, but a musician in general, I be friends with for a very long time, not a comedian. Now, it's someone with very astute political beliefs. Thank you, very well defined beliefs. I would love to I get into a fight today. I would not love to get into a fight today. Well, I'm trying to make things that can be as antagonistic as possible because I really want to get things going with a you ladies, I really want. So if there was a fight that were to happen. What would they fight be about? Dave. Oh. It's. Lies the rub. I just feel like as a as the only man here. It is my responsibility to be what they call the devil's advocate. Yes. See ladies, a devil's advocate is you're gonna man's playing devil's advocate yacht. You used to this? No mercy. You don't have to you. Don't have to literally say the name of the bit as I'm doing it. You see when you're trying to do a bit Marissa. What you want to do is say. Sally. How is the fight club intrigue near? Oh my God. Right. I, you know, I as a women's studies major I live for this sort of thing. I'm like, please. Please. I want to play like, you know, that like man's planning. Bingo, where if you like checks all the boxes, I love that above what it if I don't play devil's advocate who is going to say, the things the devil would my God. That's so fucking probably all of us apparently. Right. Because you're women Backley, exactly. But no, there's a lot of things this week that I'm I'm dying to talk about it's been a little while. There's the news just keeps coming. There's a lot of it. Just a few things we wanted to touch on. I mean, there's Jeremy Coursey or course, I the the author of where's the birth certificate? Who was apparently just made a plea deal with Robert Muller, which is very exciting. Very happy about that not that it's going to destroy Trump. But just because it hurts him. Yeah. I mean, but like who's gonna suffer because he was hurt. Like who? Roger stone stone going to jail because Jeremy Corsey is wants to knock go to jail. Just great because it's like, it's nice that this whole obstruction. And Russia investigation is getting back to the original people. We wanted to punish the people who pretended Obama was born in Kenya. And Chris Matthews makes the best point about it. Which is the argument is that Barack Obama's mother smuggled him here. As a baby because she even who's born in Kenya. She really wanted him to be eligible to run for president like that. She had this plan. He'd be president someday. Which is of course, the only reason you would smuggle a baby in for babies. Born to American citizen in Kenya. It will then come to America and have all the same citizenship rights. There's literally nothing you would lose out on except maybe running for president. But as he points out if she was that keen on him running for president. Why would you name him Barack Hussein Obama? Did you name him like George Washington Jefferson, like the name, we all soom the first black president would have? Oh, totally. But yeah, that's Jeremy Corsi he's he's author of where's the birth certificate? Have you read that by the way, it well written a lot of Typos? So now he plays into the the WikiLeaks part of this. Yeah. This whole clues. You're right. Because we know that there were people coordinated with Assange and Assange was coordinated with the Russian intelligence, and he was basically the go between between Roger stone and Assange is that what they're they're like the the jest of the he's part of the chain of information that they have been breaking down. And Roger stone knows he's going to jail now because he's been publicly saying the the the FBI is making Jeremy Coursey lie about me. He doesn't know what? Jimmy course, he said. So it's kind of like when somebody walks into like like his comes home from work and says to his wife. Hey, listen, anything happened today. No. Well, if any women call you today their goddamn liars, it just doesn't look right. Do you think that Robert that Muller is going to be fired before any of this? Very well might be. But the problem will you're he very well might be. But if but Matt Whitaker there's a lot of pressure on him because Matt Whitaker, by the way, you know, who is a criminal is an alleged, you know, guy who defrauded people out of millions of dollars with this company. I think he's aware that a Saturday night massacre would look bad, and I think Trump will do it anyway. And it's going to be one of the main parts of the impeachment because pardons and anything like that if it directly affects an investigation that affects the president it could be obstruction of Justice. He is obstructing people from getting Justice, and the counselor says even president cannot be his own judge. So I think he very well may fight fire Muller. The problem is Muller knows what he's doing and Muller's prepared for that. And it's not going to stop anything. Also, we interest fire mother, you need a reason. Yeah. Like what? Yeah. Muller and that will because they want to fire they want to. But what would be the official? They don't have an official reason. So whatever that reason would be would be trumped up and that in and of itself would be something that you could impeach someone for C by trumping up charges. Oh, it's it's exactly what would happen because Whitaker wants to be Robert Bork. Robert Bork was the guy that Nixon got to finally fire everyone and it tainted his career forever. Well, what occurs. Kind of are ready stated his plan of how you would defined the Muller investigation to the point where they wouldn't be able to afford to continue investigation, which would like basically put it in a halt where he wouldn't actually fire Muller. But like he would just defined the program so much that they wouldn't be able to send the FBI to investigate people. They wouldn't be able to afford the lawyers probably already passed that threshold. He's probably already spent the money he needs. I think he's been preparing for this. And and also another we have a democratic house. That would complicate things for the Republicans just sweeping all this away. Because now they get to investigate every direct thing that Whitaker does involved in the investigation back. So it's going to it's just it's a much bigger headache for Trump that it was before has molar gotten in touch with Julian Assange at all will the we know that there was a a warrant note that there was charges drafted for over the summer that were leaked. So that there very well could still be an arrest for Assange and look people used to talk about Julian Assange like he was some kind of hero. And I know liberals who talked about like, yeah. See his his character. Arc is the interesting one in this story to me. I'm like is he a criminal is he a villain or yes? Yes. He's a very much villain. He is. I think of it this way Julian Assange would be like if somebody came out with hey, I found member when they invented like that nail polish that stops women from getting rooted. What oh it's a famous thing. They there was a nail polish. Put on your Trink, and then even color, and it's a great like integrate with catch guys, and it probably definitely discourages guys. Now, they know they can get caught in the moment. And of course, there were few lying. Toxic people who wanted to make feminism look bad by pretending. This was a bad thing. But everyone who have brain knew that. This was a good thing. Now, imagine someone came out with that. And they're like this is really cutting down on on on on people getting roof eight and then the guy came out and said, hey, by the way, the product now only works when Hispanic men do it. That's okay. Right. I mean, we're still stopping rookies. Right. But we're not going to stop white men from roofing, that's essentially Julian Assange, did he said he was doing something. Good. And then he said, oh, but we're only going to attack liberals we're going to expose all the secrets of liberals only. That's what's so evil about Julian Assange, and that he is a guy trying to say, oh, we're making everyone know, everything we're going to just expose everything to the light, except if you're a fascist who works with Putin, or if you're an autocrat, or if you're someone who's tried to crack down on gay rights or someone who hates him aggression, those people we're going to keep safe. But if you're someone who believes in, you know. Helping refugees and k rights and anything else. Liberals believe in your the one who deserves to have your your secrets, basically because he some paddock oh without like fascist-like misogynistic regime, because he's a rapist like reason why even been accused of rape. Yeah. The whole reason why he's in an asylum living in a silent for like almost like three years now that base because he was accused of rape in his own country and fighting extradition. Yeah. And of course, he wants to say like everyone when they're caught doing something like that that oh, this is one of those examples of the speed fake, right? Everyone does Michael avenue wants to make the fact that he was accused of smacking around his girlfriend responsible for the responsibility of that twenty year old who was paying off people to say that Robert Muller molested them. But of course, well who accused you of an ATI was it a random woman, you never met. Or is it your living girlfriend because I really don't think he paid off your live in girlfriend if it was. Yeah. Leave me if this was a homeless woman you'd never met I one hundred percent bleed in Texas. The fact that like you live in the same address kind of tips me off that maybe you did this. Yeah. Yeah. Also agree. We all agree. We'll hate. Mike Levin, audio ready. Right. Like didn't we already find him like that? He was making us look bad. He's a chaotic good. Well, yeah. He's he's on our side. But he makes us look bad. He's a douchebag deuce definitely a douche. But like to fight dish with douche like, you know, like, I just feel like do shirts. That's a great slogan for. You know what I mean? It's like you need sometimes it due to counterbalance other Dushi, and this especially pressure that you say that because of course, Douches are actually not very good for you. So you should fight them. Well, because we're self-cleaning. Yeah. Yeah. The human body actually has ways of shutting that whole thing down. Tell us more about the female police, so but Julian Assange villain or no. Where did we land? Yeah. I don't know. Here's a monster. He yeah. His plan was to help right wing authoritarians get into power by exposing the secrets of liberals. That's why in the last election. We saw what happened when only one side's emails come out. Like we saw what happened when when when John Podesta's emails come out. And even when there is no smoking gun if you can see people's personal conversations that's enough for them to decide you're a bad person. Even if you didn't do anything just the fact that you have those personal conversations people would say, well, look what she did without even reading what they were. I just don't understand why anyone on that on that side of things with Roger stone. And with with Trump like always accusing people ampaign people off saying all an accusing Bill Clinton. And you know, everyone around them that they were, rapists. And that they were, you know, abusing things like that that, you know, Hillary had like actually fought off these people or, you know, defended her husband and stuff like that's what confu-. Loses me is that like these lies are very blatant and obvious, but they're still being accepted by by the mass. And yet these emails that don't seem to have like the most you know, that that. Headlines people if they see a headline that says smoking gun, they'll just repeat that. And I've had conversation with Republicans who will literally I've had conversation where the this one Republicans said two things that were amazing one. He said CNN lies constantly. And I said give me one example. And he threw the biggest tantrum I've ever seen on adult throw my life. Because in that moment, I realized even he didn't know he didn't know any and I said, okay, give me an example. And he starts Google in an hour later sends me we'll CNN said that the ratings were as good as Fox News is. And then Fox News said that was a lie. And I looked it up. I was like well CNN was using the measure of how many total viewers they had over the course of an hour. And Fox News was using the measure of how many viewers the head at any one time, meaning a million people saucy n n for at least one minute in this hour, but more people stayed on Fox News. Gotcha. So CNN different metrically. We had the same number of people yours, and I'm like if that's your example of why the news media lies. Is constantly. You just admitted you are desperately full of shit same guy. Same guy said Hillary Clinton has been convicted of multiple crimes, and I was like you can't even name and crime. She was formally accused of you know, hasn't even been indicted. Yeah. And this is you know, and you wait and they Google, and then they get really said, and then they change the subject, and it's like, that's when you come. And that's what we're dealing with. We're dealing with people who really do live in that kind of fog where they don't even know what they believe what they I. But that is exactly what they think about us. Like those like word for word what they're like, you know, liberals say all these things bad things about Trump. They can't even actually name the can't even like name any of this like like an honesty, and you start rattling them off. And they'll just say, well, those are all is those are you just the mainstream media. Yeah. And like, and that's that's the brilliant plan that Trump is executed as being like, oh make them mistrust. The media, I can say, whatever the mind. The funny thing is is it's not even stuff that it's like accusatory. The the media is an accusing Trump of these things. It's Trump actually saying. This is from his account when I was in Texas at the Ted Cruz working for when I was writing for triumph the dog on Colbert, we were covering the Ted Cruz bed or Rourke last week. I couldn't say where what was therefore I saw people asked about things. But Trump said and she says, well, I don't believe any of what the media says he said the media is insane. He said any video of it. It's it's it's it's footage. It's playback. It's it's not manipulated if you hours of footage. Yes. Will indulge me for a second. I have a rant that just specifically. I to me explain exactly how we ended up here with them believing everything Trump says ou, okay? Have to do with God somewhat. If you turns how far back ago, if you just go back to George W Bush, George W Bush was someone that millions of Republicans felt deep. Shame for being fooled by for someone that they defended they said the Iraq war had to happen. And then almost unanimously they all stop defending him once his popularity collapsed, and he's was no longer president. However, you saw a lot of people like Dan Quayle sun a lot of Republicans as soon as Barack Obama became president. They felt like the only way to salvage our dignity is to somehow make Barack Obama as hated a President, George W Bush. The problem was didn't give them anything big to use against them. So they had to just fabricate ObamaCare where he was. But they had to fabricate a World War was not just ObamaCare. I mean, I'm talking about the deep fucked up Jeremy Coursey, where's the birth certificate type of politicians? They just started building this false reality. We're Obama was getting away. With hundreds of crimes where he's a gay hustler where he's pimping children and a pizza place where he's personally, you know, working with the Muslim Brotherhood. They invented this entire false reality. Because it's the only thing that would make their worldview make sense that no Bush wasn't bad the every presidents this bed. And now we have to believe in this false reality to get people to believe that Obama is this horribly monstrously bed. Otherwise, we'll never get another Republican president. And then we'll bomohs no longer president. They were like, well, they're still obviously this fake media in place that's been lying to us because these walking around be like how come the media never talks about all the children Obama is selling for sex? How come they ever talk about all these horrible Muslim things he's doing and they had to believe that all reality was a construct. So that when it was reversed and Trump was actually doing hundreds telling thousands of lives do in hundreds of things that everyone hates. They were able to say well all reality is allied to. Make Obama look good. So obviously, it's still going while that also really just explained my dad's journey in the last twelve years from a normal person to only let's get this news from right wing radio. And yet believe things like that Obama had like internment camps that he would send, you know, the political protesters to and the key like truly believe that and believes that do you remember where those internment camps were by the way, where they often said they were I don't know if I didn't I did not change the subject, wonderful family dinner. I remember a lot of people thought those internment camps were the Katrina tents that we're still they thought that you know, you remember Katrina have tents for years because of how many people were homeless because Republicans are so angry over all charity from the government. They had to make up this idea that instead of. Caring for homeless people these were concentration camps, and I viewed one conspiracy guy about it. And his I so how do you know, what you see tanks connected to them making me like oxygen propane. No, the that's really like tanks to gas them. Yeah. They saw gas tanks propane. And they were like, well, that's all they needed. That's these are people who live in a desperate fog of confusion. I have been on two dates with two separate Christian conspiracy theorists dudes when Obama was president, and they both had like very similar where Obama was like, obviously like anti Christ bad guy. But that he would drink children's blood specifically, and they both were like, yeah. Every everyone knows that he's like an agent of the dark Lord life. Like like, I'm an idiot and how did twice this happened? We need to. From from like, Texas, and like the mid west like very Christian places that came to New York. This fucking got like like nine eleven truth thing, James MAC. No. He's just a Bros. Battle of Reno. Who turns out now, malaria's belief one of them is also a flat earth or I found out, and that's the one I let touch my boobs. So we really need to talk about how you ended up on dates with two of these men because I like, I am not a hard person. We can let once that is a hard night. I didn't go on a second date. Yeah. I mean, I get it. They didn't tell you. They're flutter. There's you know on Tinder, no, I would've stopped them at Christian. They. Well, that brings up another point that like I've seen a lot of these Republicans talk about how women liberal women. Oh them their vaginas like they act like liberal women are like you are to blame for me hating. You like as you won't fuck me just because of my horrifying beliefs. Yeah. Like, we're withholding a basic human right from you, treat it like you're like, I you have to give me food and water. Like, no, this is not a need. Right. That's the Australia's prime minister Abbott said years ago said that there needs to be a compromise between women's control of their bodies and men's desire to sex with them prostitution is exists sex work. Yeah. See I I don't think he would consider that a compromise. I think he would consider that just giving it all to you women if it has to be forgiving, you the dick and our money. What if I'm really good at it? Why do I have to pay me? I'm like, I don't know. I've been I've been getting dick and just not getting getting making any profit. And I'm just like, I don't know. Maybe I'm doing it. Because you're a good person. That's what a good person, though, she she she has. I I've I've done my part for the sexiest Christian men. I really have. I've given my share ladies as was nonconsensual. Yes. Hi, horribly sorry. And that's my only experience with like any Christian. Studying to become a pastor. That's so Oxford University. Oh, I mean, it as horrible as that is at least you get to feel right about like these men like, yeah. It's it's I knew that from the beginning. I only I only racked like this. Because I know the story you're talking about already. That's why I'm not, you know, acting that emotionally reactive because we've talked about this. But yeah, it's it was a person who was a monster. And a lot of monsters is amongst it's easier to be a monster. When you cloak yourself in whatever bullshit morality, you think. Yeah. Just constant denial. I think even just being a normal human being or you know, putting on this sort of. Yeah. Facade of of acting as if they can save, and he'll people, and you know, change the world in some you know, or or convert to. You know, this is let me ask you this question. Do you think that these kinds of people are they more coming from the place of because they feel they feel some sort of moral superiority they start feeling like they have a right to do these horrible things or do you think they're horrible people who found that moral superiority as a mask? I think it's a I would think that it's a mask. I I don't know. I think that that that person in particular kind of just yeah. Kind of pretended and really really wanted to pretend that he was a good person for parents or for societal kind of like worlds to convince himself to. Yeah. I think it was just a matter of convincing himself or the people around him that like he had some sort of merit and also at the same time had this other side where it was just like, I'm the cool person. I'm a cool cage. You know, like, I don't have anything wrong with me. And and I invite people, you know, it was just kind of like a it seemed like it had a. Strange or around it not so much like, you know, I'm I'm doing this for my life, you know, being being this. And honestly, it's kind of moment where you really see it. Because a lot of people are good until they have they have to do something about it. Like a lot of people are good people until they're challenged. Oh, yeah. And I think that that sort of situation it's like how many people that's the moment where you see. Okay. Who actually walks the walk of being a decent person and doesn't tolerate this. And doesn't say, oh, well, maybe it wasn't what you said because that's inconvenient for me. It's really, oh, it is a credibly depressing that people disappoint you with that. Because other people we know back in LA there were accusations against other people. And you know, it's you really see how difficult it is for people to when it comes to their lives condemn someone. Oh, gosh. Oh, gosh. It's really sad. Because that's when you really well, it's like with Trump's it to make an analogy. It's like Trump supporters. He is their test. He is their morality tests. He is a test that it's almost like someone said what if you could get everything you want politically in terms of policy, but you had to literally align yourself with a cartoon version of your devil seriously, and everyone who takes Trump's side with this has shown us your religious beliefs where a lie. Oh, do you do not believe any of this? You were always using it as a club against people. You wanted to punish for their slutty nece for their lack of discipline lack of lack? Worshiping authority. Do you think that this exists for? I mean, like, I know that it existed and that it's been around. But I don't feel like people actually believed these things until someone with like so much authority and so much conviction. That his words were right? Like, I don't believe that all of this stuff was actually there until someone like planted it in their heads, making them believe that you know will. Yes, I I think you're right in that Trump inspired a certain sense of embracing everything, you know, is wrong. Yes. And and embracing the the butterflies in your stomach when you confront someone and act wrong like the butterflies you get in your stomach when you lie to someone to their face. I think Trump taught people the proud boys are all about saying. Like, that's a good feeling. I wanna feel that I want to Trenton of knowing you hate me of knowing I'm doing something naughty in wrong. I've said it before I think, it's the same basic psychological premise behind the. Way serial killers sexualize violence, these people sexualize, awkwardness, and aggression and schrool culture. And and and kind of abandoning this need to need to be liked because being like, I don't care. What you like Trump saying he's like, I don't care. What you think? I'm not one of these people. I say it like it is that was they liked that whole vibe. They're also like a white male. So I guess you hate me. Anyway. So I might as well be a monster. Like, you know, what I am nationalist? Fuck it. I will say like that's that is what we're seeing. Like, oh, you say it's bad to be Nazi? Maybe it's not like end. It's kind of just it's so I think the seed was planted, and he just fucking this is something I think has been kind of going. I mean granted it it's kind of exploded now, but it kind of started I'd say in that in the late seventies early eighties with beginning of the silent majority. When the Evancho Kohl's started kind of trying to make more of a political play where there were there. Faith was what was dictating their politics. And then this was kind of Trump is is like the. I guess like the Abol of that kind of thing where he just kinda metastasized like just as cancer where it doesn't matter what he says or does is long as we the silent majority. Now have this voice, and we are the majority which they're not. But it's like, you know, as long as Boertien are illegal, and as long as I can have my guns. It doesn't matter what he says or does to anyone else because we're going to be protected where the children people where the Christians and fuck everybody else an important thing. Also that Trump recognized was that he saw that there that the big mistake in the Republican party to him was that Republicans all acted like there was going to be a future Republicans in general while as much as I hate a lot of their policies. They were all behaving as if they knew twenty forty years from now people. We're going to look back and be like, you guys are really on the wrong side of history, and that they didn't want to be too fucked up. And then Trump was like, you know, Republican voters are way more anti Mexican than the average Republican politician. And that's how I'm going to beat them. All I'm going to embrace all the ugliness that the Republican politicians saw in their own voters and said we need to push that aside because I'm going to look like a monster in the history books if I allowed if I really do a Pat Buchanan here and go along with this. I remember after like Obama got reelected the Republican party had like a big fucking like identity crisis. And they were really trying to get like more like Hispanic particularly Republicans in there, and it just didn't fucking work at all. And then from that. So it's a really interesting point. Because the autopsy the Republican autopsy after Romney was we're going to start speaking Spanish, we're going to start being nicer to immigrants we're going to start doing all. And then they were like, you know, let's do the exact opposite of that. Just over to say, we don't need another. Voter of color to ever exist. We just need every angry white man to agree with them on to suppress the voters of color if the symbol. No, I have to change the subject to something because it's so related to what we're talking about right now. And I think after everything we talked about is a really feel good story is something that really like I think we can all kind of enjoy. Oh my God. I think you know, exactly what I'm getting to Sally the Christian missionary who was killed by the sentinel east tribe. I am not happy about any death. But does it real? Okay. Here's here's we have to be allowed to be happy. This will because of how many ways he was wrong saves lives, except for those who know, but here's the thing. Heat relief. They he that island was not immunized. He was putting them that entire population still people at danger. So like, so I'm like, oh, we're still waiting to see if they die. It hasn't been long enough to even see if the diseases he could expose them to are going to kill them. There's an estimated fifteen. Sentinel's alive today when there were six hundred hundred years ago fifteen as it may the the the Indian government estimates fifteen most anthropologists as probably closer to fifty that just there's that many. They don't see. But those almost no women because they're all kit nine kidnapped by whom pimps. In indonesia. So so that those I mean is the sentinel ease tribe is that just on that one small island sentinel the end of an islands are a cluster violence halfway between Indonesia and India that used to have very highly developed not developed how highly. The sixty thousand year old civilizations that are essentially stone-age, and that they each different island had its own isolated tribe that that had very literally dragged with each other. We know that because in hundred tribes, I think that was in Indonesia in Jakarta last year, and they were telling us about like how there are like fourteen thousand tribes in seven hundred eyelid this tiny little. This tiny Lamont. So the islands were one of the most exclude secluded one's ever. And there were multiple different tribes there that were so secluded that their languages were impact work completely unrelated. So almost no even spe- known of them, even speak to each other almost very few people could even have Riva new multiple languages right now on the earth. Literally, it is impossible to communicate with the sentinel people. There is no one on earth who can speak both sentinel lease in another language. It's not even related to the Aung or the Jarrah the Jarallah, which are another linguist would probably have to study for years. I mean, it would take so much so long to get them. And it would take a long time. There is no die before. Then. There was right. So these people are the most violent to outsiders. That's why they're the ones who are still alive because the people the jungle people they actually oh, Hello nice to meet you. And then they all died right either through slaughter or through disease because they have no genetic some some some form of colonialism killed them. So this. Fucking asshole this American from Portland decided and by the way, not alone. He is part of an ultra conservative religious sect that sent him there. Because one of their long term goals was to convert these people to Christianity called it Satan's last stronghold because they because they hadn't heard about Jesus. Yeah. If you don't hear Jesus name, you just fucking die. And as you know in Christianity that means you go to hell, which is funny because Jesus wasn't even as name. Yeah. And I mean, why did he concentrate on the senten- lease people ride it they concentrate on the center leaves people when there were all these different tribes while the other drives because the sentinel ease were the single most secluded right because the sentinel is unlike the young or the or the Joel was so hard to say that word. It's like, rob da J A R A W a good walk. Yeah. Thank you. They who by the way have been reduced to a few dozen people begging on the side of the road because of because they you know, why because they didn't fire fucking arrows at people who came there on a boat, by the way before this guy. I he started swimming to shore or he was on a boat, and he and he yelled to them. My name is John. I love you. And Jesus loves you. And he brought a football, right? Yes. And he knows they don't speak English. He knows it will speaking shit gift, and he got his bible got hit with an arrow by a child, and he was talking about. I can't believe this little kid with his high pitched voice is throwing Ariza at me. And so then he waited and then went back again later, right? Well, he should have just stopped there like he'd still be alive if he just stopped. We'll use a religious fanatic who felt like this is his chance to be God's greatest soldier. But you would think like being such a religious fanatic that it's like, you know, something God's spirit. Life with with his own word. Maybe I should figure out another way to to be his soldier only spared me for another day. So I could do something that he didn't die. How this? This guy's a kit. Right. How this leash six. Yeah. I'm sorry. The fucking group response like the there's some responsibility for the people who fucking pushed him and sent him to do this. This is that's fucking bullshit. His mother doesn't believe he's dead. I heard those parents like what like forget Queen give these people, and I'm like, well, well that is nice because of year, we don't forgive your family for for allowing this. This group sent him there to die. They sent him. No to die because these are religious fanatics who believe that dying for Christ is a great. Oh, yeah. He did he know he was going to be like a martyr or something he knew that. He was going to a place where they kill everyone who goes there, and he wanted to die trying to bring the Christianity because he felt like this is his one chance to be a hero to be a sink. He thinks he's going to be a Saint this guy thinks he's going to get sainted. I think I think went in there thinking, I'm such a great, man. Yeah. He's he's I think he was Protestant. Yeah. But I don't have saints. But we just have celebrities. You know, I think this getting all your Christians. I couldn't imagine a Catholic do this at all. Do this all standing? No, no, they believe in Jesus. It doesn't matter. And also, let's not forget this guy who said that God was protecting him. He thought God would protect you from getting killed. But he also thought God would protect them from him killing them with his diseases because he did not give shit. If he went there and lived and tried to pitch Jesus, and they all died of the flu. He would think he's a fucking hero because they went to heaven. Yes. Because they got to learn about Jesus before they died and not that they went to heaven because they wouldn't have been converted. I, but he would have said well by making sure they at least knew the option of Jesus they had a died, and I did the right thing. Because the because what evangelical tell people is whenever someone dies without ever here in the name of Jesus their blood is on your hands. So as long as you give them the opportunity your hero doesn't matter if they go to hell or not that's their choice. I mean, that's really true. When I because I was I grew up like. Gel coal Protestant. And I went on a mission trip to DC where I think was just the first time any of my, you know, fellow church students saw a black person. And I think that was like it was because we're from I'm from Idaho. And it was so but for missionary things when they were preparing us for the mission there were other missions to like Honduras and stuff in our church, but we they do really go like any scar any danger? You put yourself in is like. At bad of like like a badge of honor like merit like they're talking about this one time where someone got cut on the face. And they're like I got the scar for Jesus, and we're like, so cool. They really do. You know that a show is being fed to lions the. Yes, they definitely they definitely talk about that a lot. But they really just like any harm that comes your way in service of Jesus is something to be celebrated. Will you know it ancient Christians of earliest Christians being eaten by the lions? People think it was Christians being fed to lions it actually wasn't really that for the most part. It was Christians were expected to show feel t to the emperor. And they're like, well you can stick Christian. But we need you to show that you also worship the empire worship the Roman gods as well. Because the role the laws in Rome were you could worship wherever you want. You just have to worship our gods. Also, that's where the term when in Rome do as the Romans do comes from. Oh, God that was the actual law. Jews like me were allowed to be Jews. If we also had their gods and jus just and their for their forebears, the questions also said, no. So at some points when they're being fed to lions, the they're like, we don't want to have to kill all you people. We just need order. So they would say them like look, you can you can still be Christian just say the emperor is God publicly do a little dance. Bow do literally anything. So we don't have to kill you. And they at the time or like, no. Yeah. We are. We want to die for Christ. Because, you know, this is when Christ had been dead for like, you know, forty years, and they're like we want, you know, if we die for and we get to be in heaven. So it was a real thing where they thought he was going to come back at any fucking second. They come back in their lifetime. Yeah. Absolutely. They all did the anti Christ. Was clearly Niro, it was just an allegory for euro and fun story about how he would feed Christmas lines. I heard this. He would like gut a. A horse a dead horse and then put tie a man in the fetal position put him inside the horse. So the horse up and unfair to a lion. Isn't that nuts? People wanted to much trouble to have interesting ways to co people human pizza rollers. It's such a human. Hop hockey. To human the horsemen. Oh my God. So funny when you really think about the history of torture and murder, and it's just it's just like TV has really saved entertainment. I have to say people were so bored. There were just bored to death. They had to kill people. They would just hang two kittens down that were starving and see which one killed the other one that in medieval times that and they just be like battle it out kittens, which just assholes must be surprised if that still exists there's YouTube view, there is still bear baiting in Pakistan. There's still some what's that where a bear would have to fight other animals in a ring it still happens today. It's really horrible happens fights here. There's dogfights in America. There's barefoot. I I just I happen to that. I was reading about it impact that they're still remote areas of Pakistan where they love a dog fight like five pit bulls. I mean, I've a bear fight five pit bulls. Or have you know, b give a monkey a switchblade and have it fight like a hyena? It's really I mean, yes, I wanna watch. But okay. Like, I feel like you're just pitching a web series. And I'm like, yes, I'm into this real like, and they I mean the word pit bull means that it's a dog that was genetically bread to fight animals in a pit y'know fight fight bulls. In a pit. What is any bull is? They were they were bred to kill bulls. In a pit for people to watch. Yeah. That's right. I cannot wait to tell people that at bars that's fast. Just like the poodle comes on the fact that after they would poop they were draw with it. You're kidding. Yeah. That one I made up. Oh my God. Oh, I just looked at Pitt bull Israel. Can we trust anything you say day doodle, the white man, you shouldn't a poodle eventually shorten? I know a man who did a poodle once. Now with his his body. I'm really happy, by the way, Leah with hell open you've been with this. Thank you so much Terry Lee made this thank you so much, this worthwhile, honest person. Now, you really really really helps show. It really does. So he drew with his poop. Yes. Well, you. He's going to hate me for talking about this. But it was my ban may and and it was like years ago. I'm not gonna. It's called a place to bury strangers and years ago years years years ago was only one guy. Don't worry so many years ago. Not in could have been another member that wasn't in the band. That's not in the man. I don't know. Anyway. So there was this guy. And he was I wasn't there at the time. But I have seen photos of it. He was very wasted. He doesn't drink anymore, which I'm I'm very happy with us rock bottom. I wonder I don't know if this. Yeah. Yeah. So no, he was he was in a hotel. And no no before he got to the hotel. He was he was lying around in the grass at night. Like he had they had just finished a show, and he was being on wacky. And then started lying around in the grass, and then he gets up and all of a sudden everybody else around him was like dude, you got on your back and. Laughing and he goes into the hotel room, and he's just, you know, like, lathering, the the the sheets the hotel bed sheets, and then, you know, posing for pictures and stuff. Yeah. It's it's wonderful. I mean, and it's a lot of Putu. It's not just. Oh, this is why the middle Americans vote against their interests because they hear stories about Californians pooping and posing with chilies not even from this country. There you go out explain. All right, build a wall. The poodle or is in anymore. Keep the poodle or is out see now, that's the kind of story that will change my mind about a people. Well, you know, when Shakespeare built the globe the arena that he the famous theater. It was the way that they got investors to build. It was if the plays don't bring the bring people in we can just go back to fighting animals. So when the globe is I built that's how they got built the investors. Like, all right. Well, if it doesn't work out just get a couple of dogs in a bear. And we'll have a show. And it's like, here's the thing. I don't know if you Manet's done with it. I feel like with the way we're going right now we are. I mean, let's let's be honest. If Trump was president for life. I feel like that would come back as being on TV. I mean, I don't know. I feel like our version of it is now just like love watching just like pundits like tear each other part. I feel like that's like the modern day. Like, we just wanna see some bloodshed. We just like whatever bloodlust we have breath and Trump fans while literal blood. Yeah, they want. Terrific. Like, boxing, MMA like any sort of bring fighting wrestling to a lesser, the typical Trump supporter, watches MA and just yell stand up while to like world-class jujitsu guys are on the ground who don't know how to throw punches. Well, we'll football is getting in trouble because of all the concussion, so I feel like there's I feel like you're right. I feel like the more that we go in a non-violent way. The more pushback there's going to be in the way that like, you know, Republican party was kinda in a crisis. And then they just went super insane. The know what that brings up a point. I actually really wanted to get into that. I think is very I don't know how to talk about this because it's such a complicated point. But I wanted to talk about it with you guys Hillary Clinton recently made a statement about immigration where she said that that having strict immigration laws will prevent white nationalism in your country, meaning that places like say, Italy or. Seeing the swing and Germany are seen a rise in fascism as a direct result to the fear that the native people of those countries feel toward the influx of immigrants. Now, that's the first time. I've heard something on the news about Hillary Clinton that it made me think, oh, she is gonna run for president again because that is her staking out the middle in a an sane. This is the area that does not exist in America anymore. The Ma the creeping to the the the more moderate democrat because everyone's going swing into the sides. That's her stake in the middle that is smack dab in the middle politics. And here's the thing. My question is I think that it is a trap for us liberals to say all immigration laws, Iran. We I think it's a wrap to make to make to fall into this trap. Because right now when I was in Texas, I saw multiple Ted Cruz fans actually say the words, if you don't believe in a wall, you believe in open borders, which is fun. Looking ridiculous. But that is how that is how it's being painted. That is how we we are being addressed. So we are constantly having to talk to people with that narrative in their minds and would Hillary's doing it sounds like is trying to stake out the claim of we need to really stop that idea because it is ridiculous the border being having strict border control has nothing to do with the wall whatsoever. Now, it is actually going to take money away from real border enforcement. I mean, Obama was one of the strictest immigration presents. We ever had didn't you deport like more people than other president? And because he was and we we saw two things from that one that it doesn't matter how much Bama does that the Republicans like they will pretend it never happened seriously flat out lie about its existence. And they will just say you didn't do anything. It's really really no incentive for Democrats to give anything. It's the only thing. Trump isn't really trying to reverse that that Obama did was thought like Obama was. Quietly very into immigration like and very strict about it. But like everything else like Trump is like, oh, no abominated that like ObamaCare, we're going to get rid of this. But whereas like the immigration like Trump hasn't even deported as many people as Obama did. But it's like the only it's like the hill. He's going to die on because it's like, oh, well, you know, the liberals there's there so pro open borders when like, you know, Obama never was, but he was just quiet about it and wasn't being blatantly racist. Yeah. They're just they're going through liberals. They're so open borders, and I'm like, not if you look at the fuck and policies, like, you're you're just you you think are you're attacking an imagined ideal. That you think we have you heard some college student on YouTube say something that you think now represents the entire Democratic Party or that. That's what we believe. And what is actually enforced are the same fucking thing. Right. Well, well, because the Democrats have never had the crazy people in power like Republicans have Republicans actually have their crazy. People in congress. We have a very large faction of people who are mad that they're not in power. But at this point in time, the Democrats are still in power are still, you know, the Dulger still empower people like to talk about. Okay. So Cortez if she's some liberal lunatic. But you know, what she's a policy wonk? She's there. She beat Crowley because she paid attention and did her homework. She is not some like occupy homeless person. She is just a twenty eight year old who doesn't have the who doesn't have doesn't have the savvy from being there twenty years yet. But she knows what the what the hell she's talking about. And we don't have the equivalent of whereas on the right? There are full blown congressman who believe in the moon landing not happening. There are full blown congressman out there who believe in psychotic conspiracy theories about vaccines about change. I mean clemency is one of the least ones, but it's it's the most important one because it's the one that's actually going to kill everyone of all colors. Yes, congratulations. It's gonna kill black and white. It's a great equalizer. I mean, I think climate change is the single most important political issue. We have because it's the only one that will kill everyone. Yeah. I mean raises everyone has something to lose racism is a horrible problem. It is. But if I were going to say, what's the more important overall in the course of history political story would it be legalizing weed. I would say is it the existence of the slave market or the end of human life. You still have to say if human life because you could say what about the option slaves? What about Sumerian slaves was their happiness worth more than the future of all human life? No, I'm saying, we don't think rich people think they're just going to like live and Connie's on space. Anyway. So in any like, I heard a comedian. And I wish I could quote or because it was very funny. But she said she's like, I think they have a place to go. Yeah. Like, there's there's gotta be some underground layer where they will all be safe forever, rather. We we did within fifteen years, though, if they have one of those trust me, we will. Eat them their sex lives. So we will literally eat them. That's what's going to happen though. That's Republicans don't understand. It's what returns on understand? If you think you can step on poor people for this long. They're going to literally eat you. I think they do. I think I think people are really afraid of that like conspiracy theorists like my dad. So sorry. Oh, you know, what he's a really good cook. But the he he really was like he's like he's he thinks that society is going to collapse like that. We live liberals are on the verge of just snapping and just tearing everything apart like the rich people, you know, like the because he's afraid of like, communism and stuff, you know, that the evil and. So nobody loves Putin. So I'm Hyun gosh. But like, I can he doesn't. And here's the thing. He does not like Trump. He voted for Trump because Hillary's the devil. But he, you know, but it's just we'll get me defend. It's just what can say. Now, they always like that. Because they devote embarrassment. They say, hey, I don't like Trump. But Obama shut the fuck up your liar. Yeah. No. I mean, like, honestly, I don't even care you you did the damage. So like your insight feelings, I I'm not gonna give you pass. Yeah. I forgot what I was going to say what they think that they were going to survive. This like I what SpaceX and things like that. Like, they think that they're going to be able to leave earth go into space and beyond some sort of colony. And I I don't know, and it's pretty much every dystopia disturbing. We're just we're just nowhere near scientifically at that level. That's the thing is like they can go. They wanna do it. They think they can do it. But it just doesn't exist yet. Well, we've already had someone spent a year in space. Yeah. It'd cost a trillion dollars. So it's not a it's it's not really sustainable when do we just when are we all going to just realize that money's not real? And then nothing would cost anything, and we could do whatever we want who's with me. You're right. Pretty soon. That's what I don't. I don't know. Gold chickens and gasoline, honestly, I feel like there's going to be like an economic something. So I'm not paying back my student loans. That's all I'm saying. I mean, it's just like as soon as everyb- the the right wing and Trump and this entire presidency and the surrounding people get what they want. What's what's next is it do they just push it further or do we just all crumble and self destruct into? I mean, I think that it's going to be waves. We're gonna come back from this. I think that we're going. I think one thing I tell all my liberal friends is you have to understand we're going to be hitting them over the head with Trump for the rest of our lives for the rest of our lives. Trump is going to be a punchline that they're going to be ashamed of in a way that Bush only hinted at because remember remember how we got to throw Bush in their face. Remember, how many thanksgiving you got to be like, hey, how'd that Iraq war workout for you? I was the only person my entire family to support not Vadim Iraq, including the liberals included the game. Ones including everyone in my family, and you and now everyone in my family hates Trump. So we have gone a good direction except one of them. But he's a shamed of it. So he's keeps quiet about it. But like I was the I mean, and I have that's the one good thing that came out of all those horribly killed Iraqis is I got to gloat to my family for years after about how I was. And they were all wrong. We should probably take a break. Ooh. My right founds. Got we're going to take a quick break. Which means we'll be back next week or in the studio in five minutes. Thank you very much to our guests. Sally, Ann hall, not her real name and Lia Braswell. Thank you and Melissa Smith. And this has been blamed stormy.

Trump Barack Hussein Obama president Robert Muller Roger stone Julian Assange Texas Jeremy Coursey Robert that Muller America Kenya Hillary Clinton Jesus Sally Trump official Leah Google YouTube Ted Cruz
Tue. 2/4 - Meghan Thee Stallion is NOT Hooking Up With G-Eazy

Celeb News Ride Home

20:03 min | 6 months ago

Tue. 2/4 - Meghan Thee Stallion is NOT Hooking Up With G-Eazy

"Welcome to these celeb- news ride home for Tuesday February fourth twenty twenty. I'm your host. Kate raft today is a huge. Stay for me it's like. It's a huge day. Kim And carnets house is currently being featured on architectural digest. And I've just been like pouring over it all all morning today. I learned that Connie West sold his Maybach to pay for an original John. Roy Air Polar Bear Sofa. I know everyone. Everyone makes fun of their house for looking like a Solis Museum but like that is actually my ideal aesthetic. I'm really hoping that this celebrities ride home. PODCAST takes off so I can eventually build my own. Solis Museum to live in also. Kylie Jenner has a huge profile in Harper's bazaar today she's like dressed rests like Marie Antoinette. The girl boss. I haven't had a chance to fully dive into it yet but the pictures are insane. There's one shot where she's just like in full on on. Who Could Tour Allah Marie Antoinette? And she's using a xerox machine but like the girl has clearly never used xerox machine in her life because she's got an an entire stack of papers on the image scanner and only like half of it is even on the scanner like first of all put those bad boys in the document feeder. You you know what I can't I can't I can't explain to Kylie Jenner how to use Xerox machine as a former office assistant. This is all this is triggering. I can't look at it anymore. Bosses just like never know how to use a copy machine it's infuriating. I'm sure Kylie doesn't care though. She's like let them eat paper Jam. I definitely am going going to inject this article straight into my veins later today. So listen to tomorrow's episode of this podcast for my full thoughts on Kylie as the Lipstick Girl Boss Murray Antoinette okay. Today's topic's Janine. Garafolo and Edward Norton are having the mildest most polite feud of all time she hadn't endorsed. Cancer is back. She's now revealing her stage. Four breast cancer diagnosis Brad Pitt allegedly skipped out on the BAFTA awards to have a heart to heart with his estranged son. maddox Megan these stallion. Denies Sleeping with G.. eazy and lastly arianna `Grande has a linked arms with her rumored boyfriend. Mikey foster while on a date at Disneyland. Here's what you missed today. In the world of celebrity news I love when celebrities feud with each other and I especially love. When it's it's like extremely polite extremely low key celebrities that are in the middle of a feud this time I'm of course talking about the very mild and very polite feud it's currently going on between Gen X.? Icons Janine Garoppolo and Edward Norton Janina recently went on a Yahoo talk show called build series series and opened up about how Edward Norton was the reason she lost out on the iconic nineties. Role of MARLA singer in fight club which ultimately went to Helena. uh-huh Bonham Carter. Here's the first part of the interview clip where she describes how she was offered the role initially at. I met with David fincher. Who just handed me a script? I was on my way to going into the airport. He said if you like it the Parkers I read. It called him and said I would like to do it. The director David fincher obviously wanted Janine to do the part right but then she goes on to talk about how Edward Norton got in the way of her actually booking it. Apparently Ed refuse to have Janine even auditioned for the part because he wanted his is then. Girlfriend Courtney Cox to play that part. Listen to the center. Janine describe it here a Edward Norton who is wonderful wonderful active felt. I didn't have the chops to do it but but nobody told me. Oh God that's so mean. She didn't have the jobs. I think you had the chops. Janine and I was told at the time that he would like Courtney love to do excuse dating and then Brad Pitt said. I'm not going to sign off on that. And then they agreed on Helena Bonham Carter who is probably much better than I would have been. I loved it. Brad Pitt. Didn't want Courtney Jaycox to play the part of MARLA. He was like my girlfriend's best friend is not going to be my co worker. I actually this part is really interesting to me. Because at the time of Casting Costing Fight Club around I'm guessing ninety nine late ninety eight. Maybe even this would have been when Brad and January like a very very new couple like they. It didn't become a red-carpet official couple until late ninety nine. But they were kind of dating during the filming of Fight Club allegedly allegedly. So I guess it would make sense ends for Brad. Not to work with Courtney Cox in the movie. It might have been too weird for him as he's just starting to date Courtney Cox friend so anyway. The interview goes on and she talks about about how Brad Pitt was always really nice to her about losing out on the role. And then she kind of shades Ed Norton and implies that he's maybe a total jerk. which kind of WANNA I believe? I WANNA believe Janine Garoppolo here. Let me play that clip for you. Brad Pitt. Who I don't know very kindly said I'm sorry about what happened? And he had nothing to do with it. And actually I live right right near Norton. ICM all-time he's never said anything. In fact he he pretends he doesn't know who I am. Every time I see him I same all the time. That's true her. My God Damn Norton. Why did you have to do Janine? So dirty would it kill you to say hi Janine at the grocery store Jesus doing you guys like like shop at the same dean and Deluca. You might as well say hi God anyway. Ed Norton has responded to these claims and basically calling Janine Garoppolo Aligarh he told. CNN quote. David fincher does exactly what he wants. He makes the call on every dimension of his films top to bottom. I don't recall him ever even raising using the subject of who he was. Considering for most other roles one suggestion I made he shot down. I was a big fan of genes. So I'd have loved to do a reading with with her end quote. I love that. They're both being so polite about this feud but I'm getting the sense that there's just like. They're both fuming mad about this. Like Ed's comment is is kind of rude like I said he was. A fan of her is not he is a fan. I'm obsessed with this feud it's so funny to me. They're both trying to be nice but I kind of feel like they hate each other like date each other right like Ed Norton. Engineering Garoppolo allegedly probably hate each other's guts. I'm living for it. I'm totally living for this. This is the best best of two thousand twenty camps down Shannen Doherty. He is opening up about the current state of her cancer and reveal to ABC News that her breast cancer is back and has reached stage. Four in interview she revealed quote. My cancer came back. And that's why I'm here. I don't think I've processed it. It's a bitter pill to swallow in a lot of ways and quote God. This is so sad in the interview. She admitted that she's struggling with the latest news of her illness saying quote. I definitely have days where I say. Why me and then I go well why not me? Who else? Who else besides me deserves this? None of us do she said but I would say that. My first reaction is always concern. About how how. How am I going to tell my mom? My husband and quote in the past Shannon has been open about her struggle with cancer since her initial breast this cancer diagnosis in Twenty fifteen but she was choosing to keep this latest diagnosis private. The reason she's now speaking out about it is because she's currently the embroiled in a legal battle with her insurance company. After her home was damaged in the two thousand eighteen Wolsey fire apparently the condition of her cancer. Diagnosis doses is going to come out in the court papers. So she's just getting ahead of that with this interview got. That is so sad but no one should have to do that. What a weird world we live in? Anyway the whole thing is just like heartbreaking. I hope Shannon has a good support system right now. She goes through not only cancer but also a lawsuit. It's just heartbreaking. What else can we say? It's completely heartbreaking. A can I ask you an extremely serious and extremely personal question. What does your problem? Why are you still using one of the big wireless providers between expensive retail stores inflated prices and hidden fees? You're you're being taken advantage of and you need to love yourself enough to walk away. Baby you need meant mobile. Meant mobile provides the same premium network network coverage. You're used to but at a fraction of the cost because everything is online. I love my mobile plan. It definitely feels way more modern and I mean come on living in the future now plus get the same coverage. No dropped calls was super easy to figure out MITT mobile makes it. Easy to cut your wireless bill down to just fifteen bucks a month. Every plan comes with unlimited nationwide talk and text with meant mobile stop paying for unlimited data. You'll never use choose between plans with three eight or twelve gigabytes of four orgy lt data. Who's your phone? Keep your same phone number. Same context save now with mint. Mobile to get your new wireless plan for just fifteen bucks a month breath and get the plan shipped to your door for free. Go to men to mobile dot com slash CELEB- news. That's meant mobile dot com Tom Slash celeb- news. Cut Your Wireless Bill to just fifteen bucks a month at many mobile dot com slash CELEB- news. His okay I am about to tell you a horror story for most of my twenties. I've had literally only only one brought and it's a bad bra okay. It's like falling apart at the seams. I'm talking like the lining fell out two years ago and I never bothered to get a new one. The straps have never stayed on my shoulders. It's missing prongs. It's literally abroad nightmare. And you know what I thought that that's all I deserved like I was like no. I don't need a new BRA like I'll just keep like having the worst bra of all time. I mean I was treating my boobs with like hutter disrespect that not anymore more because now I have a beautiful brand new bra from third love and I'm a changed woman I mean. This BRA is so gorgeous. It's so well made read and it actually fits me. It's so good I could cry. I'm dead serious right now. It has changed my life. I absolutely love third third love. They have this great deal where they promised the perfect fit. It's called the perfect fit. Promise you take sixty days to wash where if you don't love it you can always return it for free and and once you've returned it third level wash it and donate it to a woman in need third loves team of expert FIT stylists are dedicated to helping you find your perfect fit fit fit. stylists are available to help via chat or email returns and exchanges. I so free and so so easy. They've got over eighty bra sizes. That's so so many bras sizes and you can find your fit in sixty seconds with their online fit finder quiz. I took the quiz and it was so easy it was so so easy and brock came in the mail and it fit. I swear I almost cried. I was like this is this is abroad. That actually fits me Louis. Authored love knows. There's a perfect perfect bra for everyone. So right now. They're offering my listeners. Fifteen percents off your first order go to third love dot com slash celeb- news now to find your perfect fitting Bra and get fifteen percent off your first purchase. That's third love dot com slash celeb- news for fifteen percent off. Today come on you gotta do it ever good Bra itself care. What year is this right now? I mean dunker ruse whose are coming back to grocery stores. We're talking about the casting of fight club every single day. There's a new headline about Brad Pitt. Is this nineteen nineteen ninety nine or something like design. My parents haven't gotten divorced yet. Oh can I get one of those giant flip phones to impress everyone in my fourth grade class us. Today's Brad Pitt. hadline revolves around the reason. He was missing the BAFTA awards this past weekend. Apparently it had something to do with his son Maddix which automatically. When I hear that it it feels very heavy? Because as we all know he allegedly had a physical altercation with mattocks on a private plane which ultimately allegedly led to his divorce with Angelina Jolie. The Sun is reporting that Maddix. Who's WHO's an estranged from Brad Pitt? Allegedly for years was finally open to talking to his movie star Dad. The Sun wrote quote with the help of Angelina. Brad Rod has tried desperately to put his relationship with maddox right so when he was given last minute opportunity to do just that he jumped at it and quote apparently a friend. Brad's who leaked this to the Sun said quote. maddox gave Brad the chance to talk. And he dropped everything and quote. Who is this friend? I don't know maybe it's I have no idea. Maybe it's Courtney Cox maybe it's Janine Garoppolo That same friend who leaked these little votes to the sun also said quote maddox. It has been away at universities. So when Brad found out he was going to be around and they have a conversation he cancelled the UK trip end quote. Okay all right right well. Hey Brad good for you for trying to mend fences Angelina a clause co-parenting maddix. You do whatever you gotta do Maddix. But Hey M. I. Rooting waiting for this family to you. Know men some of these wounds absolutely. I Swat Angie and Brad and Maddox to be happy. That's really all I want. I don't even care if I'm happy I just want maddox Jolie Pitt to be happy. You know okay so. This next topic has multiple parts to it and it took me like ten full years to fully understand and I still don't fully think I grasped what's going on here but let's just try and give this go. Shall we okay. So this topic involves a cast of three characters. One alsi the Popstar to G.. Ge Easy Aka Gerald the white robber and three Megan the stallion. I mean come on. We all know Megan. These Dalian out girl summer. Okay so from the beginning let me just recap this for you. Halsey and G easy to be in a relationship with each other. They had a really bad like on and off break up period. She's since come out and kind of implied that the relationship was abusive. She's now constantly finding herself getting heckled online and in real life with ends four or Fanta. Me's fannies what what do you call a fan. Who's also an enemy? Draw A troll. She's getting trolled. Basically and these trolls like to yell at G.. EASIES name at her. She recently went off at someone in the middle of a concert when they shouted G.. eazy she responded sanction's going to kick them out of the venue people were like yes lake but that trump is placed whatever. She's also responded to her online trolls with a recent comment saying quote. I see y'all in the comments and I know I know you think you're funny because you're at home on your phone and I'm not a real human being to you. I hope to God you never have to experience an abusive relationship and to quote so then possibly in response to this G.. eazy boasted a string of instagram videos of himself. cozying up to robber. Megan the stallion. I don't know if these were like real. Or if they're just hanging out and he was trying to make Halsey jealous or something either way. The fans went crazy over G.. eazy possibly dating Megan Sally Ann mcgann then ended up being a trending topic on twitter. That day G. eazy followed up the instagram videos with a grid pick of Megan these stallion where he just posted a caption. There was like a bunch of blue heart emojis. Anyway maybe Meghan these dalliance was sick of being a ploy. Jeez weird alleged Halsey head games but but today it. Megan has come out denying that she's ever slept with G.. eazy she tweeted quote. Ll Alright now. y'All got y'all jokes out crying laughing face Emoji but I am not G. Eazy. She then implied that him sucking the side of her face in one of the videos was just him having a taste for fantasy. Not beauty makeup product. So there you go. They're not sleeping together. And that's it for that weird complicated web of celebrity drama hope. Everyone's having a good one. Maybe in Hosea. Megan these talion collect hang out there. The ARIANNA Arianna Guerande might have a new boyfriend. That's right Arianna `grande might have a new boyfriend everybody. According waiting to people dot com she was doing the most girlfriend boyfriend thing of all time. And that is linking arms with a guy while on a double date at Disneyland. That's right people. Dot Com is reporting that. She and her rumored Bu. Mikey foster are going out now because they you know linked arms on a double date at Disneyland People Dot Com said quote during their time at Disneyland the pop star stayed close to her man and never left his side. `Grande who was seen walking arm in arm with foster throughout the theme park was dressed casually. End Quote you know you're in love if you're dressing casually that's what I always say. If you're wondering wondering who mikey foster is music guy. I've never heard of him until today but apparently he's one half of duo called Social House. He's worked with the J.. Lo Meghan trainor and Arianna `Grande on music and also. Apparently he loves linking arms at Disneyland. But like doesn't I mean come on Arianna and Mikey denied. Neither being in relationship in the past rumors were swirling after he wrote a very heartfelt birthday post for Arianna but then after that they denied they were together. So maybe maybe they're just friends are friends. Legally allowed to link arms at Disneyland though unclear. Thanks for tuning into Celeb- news ride home. I've been kate raft. You can follow me at Kate Raft on everything you could follow the show at Celeb- ride ride home on instagram and twitter as always. I'm going to try to be posting pictures of some of the things I'm talking about today on our shows instagram and twitter accounts to give it a follow. Follow baby and thank you so much for supporting our sponsors. When you support our sponsors and click on my little links it does really help the show so super super appreciate that? Also all of your apple podcast reviews have been so nice. Thank you so much for writing them. When you give five stars any Levi's comment it really does also help the show so you know? Thanks for helping this show. Excuse me now while I go live out the rest of my day with my eyes glued to Kylie Jenner's hand and on a xerox machine. I just can't get that image out of my mind of like Kylie Jenner's overly manicured hand doing a really bad job pretending to make a photocopy. It's it's like seared into my brain. Maybe I should get a tattoo of that of of Kylie Jenner's hand on a copy machine. Alright thanks to write home media And my co producer and engineer Jack. Alison I'll see you tomorrow bye bye.

Janine Garoppolo maddox Megan Brad Pitt Edward Norton Kylie Jenner Cancer Brad Courtney Cox Fight Club xerox David fincher Mikey foster Arianna `Grande Disneyland instagram twitter BAFTA Ed Maddix Halsey
178: I'm an Old Soul Trapped Inside a Kid's Body

The Mortified Podcast

27:45 min | 8 months ago

178: I'm an Old Soul Trapped Inside a Kid's Body

"Radio X hi. It's Dave and for for those who don't know I'm the founder of mortified and I'm Hadley. I'm a producer on the show. And if you're wondering where Neil is right now. He's actually in a police station right now. This is true he I was robbed. He is okay but if you have his car please give it back. It's just Kinda lame excuse not to be here. But what's not lame. Is Supporting Radio topiary because right now it's our network's annual fundraiser and we realized if we're asking you guys to care enough about our show to donate something you should know why we care about the show. A lot of love goes into making this show. That's true for me me. It's very personal. The show began when I discovered a love letter that I wrote at age. Sixteen and for me. It was my first job out of college. That's right. It was a an internship that blossomed into producer producer ship Woohoo. We love getting to work on something that makes people laugh and sometimes cry and this year in particular. We've really been pushing ourselves to tell more challenging stories as stories about kids is dealing with divorce disabilities and even death all of that requires resources though so if you like what we do consider giving we love any amount just visit radio toby dot. FM But our golden amount. We would love from you seven dollars per month recurring one burrito a month minus the the avocado. Yes if you can afford one burrito month minus the Avocado then you should give at Radio Tokyo Dot. FM and what do you get if you give at Radio Tokyo Dot FM. Well you're supporting. All the shows goes on the network. You get a commemorative coin. And you're enter to win a trip to Boston where you'll have the opportunity to meet different personalities behind radio topiary shows like yourself south and also people like Roman Mars and criminals phoebe judge and all you gotTa do is go to Radio Toby Dot FM and donate a Burrito for that Kado were with Dear diary six grade February fourteen. Ninety one I am really depressed cheaper with me. You can't read this. Yeah at least shower. It's one of the most enduring movie genres of all time so it it feels like they just keep making the same filled again. I wish I could change places with you. Wish I could too. And so on her thirteenth birthday wishing dust she only made one wish. I JUST WANNA BE GROWN UP BIG FREAKY rickie. Friday vice versa. Like father like son. The hot chick thirteen going on thirty eighteen seventeen again little all movies were kids somehow seriously magically magically find themselves trapped in the body of adults old I beg your pardon the Or where an adult is trapped inside the body of a kid Marshall Seymour as a knock to become is eleven year old son family and vice versa. But it doesn't always require a magical Zoltan machine cosmic dust or mystical fortune cookie for for someone to feel like they're a grownup trapped in the body of a teenager. Dear Journal my God ever get the feeling of pure shame you at all the people in your Gauge Fox for kids like Georgia. All it took to feel like an adult is a pen in an empty page in the diary and she wasn't alone and not to be easy but I'm a lot more mature than some eighteen year. Olds I know. Let me tell you. I've seen the dark side of from Direction Radio Topa. I'm dave and this is mortified. Today we meet two people who who grew up feeling like a middle aged person trapped in the little kids bottle tales of old souls with young hearts minus the Hollywood magic. Hi my name's Kate. Shulman and I was a jaded old old lady in a third graders body. I grew up in New York City as an only child hung out with adults all the time and when I was a kid I would just like stare out the window. A line just be like in the city's change and in the third grade trade. My teacher gave us these writing notebooks that we could write whatever we wanted based on the prompts that she would give us in class and as a highly opinionated Grande Dame of the five boroughs food. I loved it so my first prom. Trump was about homework. I hate homework. I think I'm catching a fever. Cold stress I never. I can never get my math zone and when I get home I'm exhausted So my next prom is called. What can go into a writer's notebook so I wrote your personal life? Ideas regrets this next entry in this next century is just called tired sometimes. Sometimes I'm tired sometimes. I'm not this morning was not one of the best days I overslept. I got dressed very slowly. I had the two eggs which took a long time to eat. I was reading my comics for fifteen minutes. It was late for school. ooh It's happened before. That's why I hate permanent records so our next prompt was called Soda. So Soda Outta Love. So if you don't like soda where are you from. Aw North Dakota yes really got them there. This next entry is just called pink paint on my bedroom walls pink sheets. Pink covers pillows pink clothes. My mom says pink is beautiful color. I hate the color. I'm wearing pink right now. Aw I don't mind if animals where but I need to get my room redecorated all die. So this next prompt highlighted on one of my biggest fears which you can probably relate as an eight year old my biggest fear there was Jodie. Foster's two thousand five feature films Light Plan. Then you are familiar. It's about this ex-pat aviation engineer and she and her daughter have to fly her dead husband's body back to the states to get him buried so my next prompt is movies. He's a flight plan. I'm scared of flight. Plan a woman gets up and goes to the bathroom and she comes back check. Her little girl is missing. It still haunts me. The thought of it happening to me. It will never happen to me. I stay in my seat so I would write a lot of lists and my notebook as well so my first list is called six things. That are scary Gary Clowns Black Widows Dead People flight plan the phone calls phone calls. And nobody's there. This next. Prom is called Thanksgiving Turkey in cranberry sauce. Stuffing sounds good right. Not so much which I don't like Thanksgiving not really my favorite holiday. The food is outdated. I used to think the I used to think that I liked cranberry sauce. Because it had the word Berry in it I tried it. It was weird I never ate it again. The holiday is old. This happened in the sixteen hundreds we were invading trading peaceful native American land. Can we give it a rest to conclude. I don't like Thanksgiving for a number of reasons. And my negative. Maybe five things that are stupid homework drunks murderer's anything. That's paying. So that was four things. Another list I wrote was called one weird thing saying one weird thing people who sing off key people who are eight and have passed the fires eh clowns smell of fresh cat litter so that was also one one thing again. This next entry is called sick. My stomach did a backflip. Worst case of him I ran into the bathroom and I think you know what happened. My mom gave me some of this. milkshake thing called Optima and just as as a quick aside optimize the slimfast protein shake so. That doesn't really make sense. This next prom is called the cell phone and talking on your cell phone can kill brain cells. Get off that that cell phone and that's it for that anyway. This next prompt jumped is just called hobbies. I have some hobbies that I really like. One of my hobbies is collecting real estate magazines. I thought the furniture and it came with the House. I was wrong places. I want to go Wisconsin so we had to write a mystery story at one point in the year and we had to brainstorm and list of ideas for our mysteries story. So this was my list of brainstorms mystery of the missing teacher. Who murdered the Queen? Where's molly where's Casey? And why am I back in time as much as I sounded grumpy and in complaining as a kid I really did love writing and I kept writing and I still do today so my final prompt was about my favorite subject. Act In this one. I like to write. It gives me a chance to express myself. I think I'd like to be a writer. One one day thanks. Kate Shulman at a mortified event at Wunderlist Hollywood Hollywood. Here's the mortified office. We have the best parties. Most of them aren't even planned. Hey where are you in such a good mood I. Why did you start seeing a new therapist? That is good. Hey guys meals back in. Wow this party is great. Parties are great but so is finding a therapist that really. Here's you and that's what I just found. Thanks thanks to better help and online counselling service. They connected me with a licensed therapist at my convenience who it turns out. I have a lot in common with. Hey how's it going. That's right. We even share the same. And even though we've only had a few video sessions therapists. Neal is already helping me see things. I never even considered and I get get to do therapy through video audio or texting right from my own home so something is getting in the way of your happiness consider help convenient and truly affordable therapy option option right now mortified listeners. Get Ten percent off your first month with discount. Code mortified get started today go to better dot com slash mortified. Fill a quick question here would help them. Assess your needs and get matched with a counselor. You'll love that's better. Health dot com slash mortified use discount code mortified. Do you have any other clients. Science named Neil. Is that something that would be important to you now. While Kate sounded like a middle aged woman who complained about all the small things in life are next storyteller. Jasmine SAR czar. Self as a middle aged woman personality that was larger than life. Hi everybody my fascination with fabulous fabulous women started pretty early on I was around twelve and a half and while my friends were busy distracting themselves with their kind of likes crushes on boys. I was distracting myself with delusions of grandeur and fame and of course Bette Midler. I I wanted to be Bette midler. I used to set up my video tape recorder on a high shelf health and wear a dress. That would twirl when I would turn and I would lip sing to her songs. Hi I'm jasmine figure. I biggest fan in all began when I was eleven years old. I'll never forget it's no bette. Midler was actually a little little older than my mother by like a few years and I think it was really weird to my friends that I was fascinated dated with this woman in her forties. She was quirky looking. I was Korcula. Gang she was big and Brassy. I was Bagan Brosse for like a preteen and something about her unapologetic on a bash. It presence I am here. I am not going anywhere. Inspired me and spoke to me in a way that nobody else had in this little town that I needed so desperately to get out of March Second Nineteen ninety-two age. Twelve and a half. I disagree completely with what the critics say about Bette Midler for the last few days. They haven't had positive things to say about her. They save us. She just barely made it as an an Oscar nominee. That's not true. She was fabulous in for the boys. Being my one and only idol. She is fabulous list in everything. She deserves the Oscar and she will get it March fourth. Everybody has an idol. Everybody has a hero everybody. Everybody has an obsession but no one is as obsessed as me. My obsession with Bette midler started in October. I was watching her nine thousand nine hundred eighty eight movie beaches for the Twelfth Time. I always loved that movie but that time it was different in March eighth. When I go up on stage I feel so free? I don't have to be myself. I could be anyone I could even go anywhere. To the Moon Moon Outer Space Japan Louisiana Anywhere Verne Fowler is into the only the stage work that I do this last summer. I was in the musical Anne. I played Mr Bundles. The laundry man. Aw Most people think that my wanting to be an actress is just a phase. Well it's not. I'm going to make my dream a reality March twelfth. I I saw the movie. This is my life I loved it. It was witty. Charming funny sad and Julie Kaverner was terrific. It would have been better with Bette midler but wouldn't everything march twenty six. Mrs Smith Always Accidentally Caused Me Janice Danis instead of Jasmine since everybody makes fun of me in her class now I'm not only fat ugly stupid horrible hair ugly closed etc but now Janice Mantis is made fun of for being called Jasmine. They don't know how bad that makes me feel march thirtieth only nine and a half hours to the Oscars. Bad midler is nominated for best actress. They say she won't win one. If she doesn't win an Oscar she's she's still a winner in my mind. March thirty first last night was horrible. Aw I I got in a huge fight with my mom and step dad. What else is new? I got hit kicked and finally grounded. I'd like to pause for a moment to just say that my parents never hit me. They never touched me. I was attached dramatic matic. My mom gave me a choice of either watching the Oscars and being unable to watch. TV for the next three days or missing the Oscars and watching the next three days I watched the Oscars of course to top off the wonderful night that I was having Penn Midler didn't win the Oscar but she always has been still is and always will be a winner in my mind's April ninth. I decided to write about something different rent. I chose to do this because my book report for the Fourth Marking period is on Bette Midler. I can't think think of anything else to right right now. I'm looking at my framed picture of Ben Midler that I bring everywhere in April fourteenth. Yesterday I got in the mail. An autographed picture of Bette Midler. As soon as I saw the a large envelope with the return address. Disney I knew it I went crazy. It's probably because I send so much. Fan Mail oh I could die may twenty second yesterday Bette Midler was on the tonight show with Johnny Carson. It was phenomenal. No that's not the word outrageous. No hell there's no word fabulous enough to describe Bette midler. Anyway I recorded it and I've already watched it ten ten times and that's not an exaggeration. I already know everything that she says and sings. It's a shame that Johnny is leaving in May twenty second my best friend Patty Fund. Second is totally sick of me. Talking about Bette Midler. I can't understand why in June fourth today is Patty's birthday tomorrow. Is Her party from eight to ten. And I'M GONNA show from seven thirty to nine fifteen. That's sucks folks. I can only come to the party for about a half hour. I know however that the acting career means commitments. Something I I have got. I will run across times when I have to put aside my social life in order to obtain my drama June fifth. I hate it when people call me uglier when they call me homely I'm the one inside the body. I'm the one with the face. I can't can't have plastic surgery on my heart. I've been waiting decades for validation like that bad. Thank you June eighth. Miss Harris told me that Bette Midler was that. JPs Highschool like six or seven years ago to see this Google play. She was wearing jeans and a t-shirt and no makeup. I guess they know what I'll be wearing tomorrow. I was actually never quite sure. Even in retrospect whether I wanted to be bette midler be like Ben Midler or simply. Do Bad Midler my admiration for women. It carried on throughout my teen years in my twenties and thirties. I'm turning forty this year. Thank you it made it culminating. I'm now in my lovely relationship with very tolerance partner Moore who incidentally does not look anything like Ben Mettler you know like I always thought it was just bad but like in looking back I realise it was not bad. It's like when you're as a grown up. It's like as we get older in our are thirty S or whatever we realized they were representing something. It was the idea that I could possibly have a really good fulfilling life with blake big feelings and and big activism and and big love just because everything she did was so big at. That's what she was to me and I just think if I had met her in person there is no way I could have conveyed to her the importance that she played in my life against getting amy emotional talking about it. Now just recognizing that it was so much more than her and her voice and her movies and the lullabies. She had that she sang saying to her little actor kid and for the boys December twenty nine. I had an incredible experience. Today me mom and Wayne went. went to see a Broadway show I met spoke to and got the autograph of none other than the legendary Patti lupone. I said to her. I think you are so amazing. She signed my poster. I could die what Patty has. What bet has I need that now? I can't wait until my name is on Broadway. Marquee and people write about me and their diaries over the years. My bed obsession has turned into like a more of of a deep appreciation. I guess you could call it and a few years ago I even. I had the opportunity to go see her in Las Vegas. Perform at Caesar's palace is awesome. Yeah I figured it was a good time to go. Now that the restraining order had been lifted thank you And this concludes our look middle-aged souls who are trapped in the bodies of awkward Middle Schoolers where we learned age is not a number. It's a state of mind that requires a monthly subscription crippen. One of my hobbies is collecting real estate magazines. He's episode featured Georgia Goudie M Morrison Kate Shulman and Jasmine Singer. The checkout Jasmine's memoir always too much and never enough and while you're at it you can pick up point of mortified three books including our latest. My mortified life a guided journal filled with writing prompts to reflect on your own teenage memories if the ideal holiday gift for the Awkward Soul in your life find it at get mortified dot com along with upcoming events and a brand new to the site to Matt Collections of podcast episode. You can also find us on twitter facebook or instagram. We'd love to hear from you Our Bod gas production team for this episode includes Hadley Dion. Neil catcher intern Vicki and myself Dave Natal Berg crisper Sally Ann Anna Altmann produced some of today's material for the stage. Music by Gordon Bash. Alex Burke Adam Smith the Angel Zoe rose Palladino and snake- snakes snakes additional thanks to all all the dedicated mortified live producers whose work make the stage show possible until next time. We remind you that we are freaks and we're fragile and we all survived Here's the mortified office. We have the best parties. Most of them aren't even planned. Hey where are you in such a good mood. Did you start seeing therapists. That is good. Hey guys meals back wow. This party is Great. Parties are great but so is finding a therapist that really. Here's you and that's what I just found. Thanks to better help and online counselling service. They connected me with a licensed therapist at my convenience who it turns out. I have a lot in common with Amiel. How's it going? That's right. We even share the same name. And even though we only had a few video sessions therapists. Neal is already helping me see things I I never even considered and I get to therapy through video audio or texting right from my own home so something is getting the way of your happiness. Consider better help convenient lenient and truly affordable therapy option right now mortified listeners. Get Ten percent off your first month with discount. Code mortified get started today go to better help dot com slash mortified. I'd fill a quick question here to help them. Says your needs and get matched with a counselor. You'll love that's better help. Dot Com slash mortified use discount code mortified. I'd do you have any other clients named Neil. Is that something that would be important to you.

Bette Midler Oscars Ben Midler Kate Shulman Radio Tokyo Dot Neil Hadley Dion toby dot writer Neal Patty Fund Dave Natal Berg Jasmine producer Boston fever New York City Penn Midler
Desperate To Believe

Cherry Avenue True Crime Podcast

26:07 min | 1 year ago

Desperate To Believe

"Welcome back to cherry avenue grind podcast. Thank you for listening and telling a friend, your support means so much. This episode is a doozy. I read maybe a paragraph on this case, and I was hooked. I had to know why also why turns out there are lots of reasons. This is a true crime podcast. It contains explicit details of murder and other types of assault. It is intended, for a mature audience listener discretion is strongly advised. It was August two thousand ten somewhere around fifteen miles or so south, west of central London, Sally, challen had just left Klay gate, Surrey a suburban village. In November of two thousand nine eight months earlier Sally had finally taken steps for her independence, including buying a small home in clay gate with money from inheritance. Now, she was in the process of reconciling with her husband of thirty one years. It was a rainy Saturday when she returned to the family home on one roughly ridge to begin clearing out the house, so that she and her previously estranged husband could put it up for sale. The home was estimated to be worth one million pounds that is around one million three in US dollars. They were planning to take an extended trip to Australia with some of the proceeds before. They got down to work. Richard told Sally he wanted. Bacon and eggs for breakfast. She had to go out to the store to get the makings for them. She felt that there might be a reason why he wanted her gone for a while to the store, and she checked his phone when she got back. She was right. There was a call from a number that Sally knew it belonged to a woman Richard had met through a website called dinner dates. She asked Richard to explain the call. He told her don't question me, Sally made breakfast. And while Richard was sitting at the table, eating bacon and eggs, she took a hammer and hit him repeatedly more than twenty times. Just to make sure in Casey was still breathing. She stuffed a tea towel into his mouth before wrapping him in some old curtains. She wrote a note that said I love you. Sally and placed it on Richard's body, then she washed the dishes and drove back to the home. She shared with their son, David the next morning. She gave David then twenty three a ride to work. After that, she drove to Beechy head, she called her cousin to confess. Then she walked to the cliffs, it took a suicide prevention team hours to talk her back from the ledge. When I first read about this case, I thought, wow, a hammer, how many women bludgeoned their husbands to death. Not many certainly, not as many as do shoot their husbands or poison them. Was this just about being jealous about being portrayed? Not just this was about a lot more as it turns out, and just about everyone supported Sally after the murder they were not calling for Justice for Richard in June of two thousand and eleven Sally was in court. She did not look. Well, she had lost a front tooth, her hair was not the usual impeccably groomed blonde style. And she was quiet, very quiet barely speaking. The prosecution made claims she was a possessive jealous wife. They painted a picture in where the call from the other woman made sallies snap. However, they said the other woman was just a friend. It was platonic. They told how Sally had counted Richards Viagra and checked his emails, hacked into his messages. When they asked why she killed him. She said, I don't know. I. Just didn't think he wanted to be with me. The trial was seven days and at the end of it, she was found guilty. The judge sentenced her to life. He told her she had been eaten up with jealousy. Ed Richards friendships with other women. You are somebody who killed the only man you loved he said, and you will have to live with knowing what you did. There was so much more to Sally story, and so much more to where her mental state was, it would be six years before, all of it would be heard, though, in two thousand fifteen course of control was added to the statute books under the serious crime act in March of two thousand seventeen Sally one leave to appeal against her conviction on the ground, she'd suffered coercive, and controlling behavior from her husband, something did did not become a criminal defense until four years after her trial. Her lawyer Harriet wis stretch was the co founder for Justice for women, which helped with the release of some famous UK cases of women who had killed her violent, and abusive husbands coercive, control identified something that victims of domestic violence had been trying to explain for decades. If not longer the physical, assaults were not the worst, there was the pattern of humiliation domination, an isolation that had broken them down. It stole from them, the person who they were before often a slow methodical chipping away of there being until they no longer knew who they were Sally did not have hospital visits or broken bones to us. No history of physical violence, what they did have was numerous, witness statements taken in two thousand ten but not used in court emails from Richard to Sally and months of time spent with Sally herself whist. Rich hope to show that for thirty years Richards behavior, pushed his wife to the edge here is a woman who absolutely adored her husband, a very old fashioned housewife, who had never committed an act of violence or criminal offense. Her lawyer Westridge said from the outside is such a bizarre thing to happen. It's only when you look at their whole marriage and understand course of control that depature starts making sons Sally's sons have always been behind her Sally Jenny met, Richard challen, when she was just fifteen and he was twenty two her son David said about this, that's important to know understand what happened later. He went on to say that he got a real sons growing up that dad was mums childhood sweetheart that romance went on all her. Life is seemed very pure. He said that now he can see the age gap for what it meant his mother, never had a chance to experience any other relationship. Or form any adult identity of her own my dad and the way he behaved was all she knew Sally's father was a Brigadier in the Royal Engineers, who spent most of his life in India, Sally had four brothers who were all teenagers when she was born her father died when she was just six years old. She was not encouraged to go for higher learning. Her mother thought secretarial work may be and a husband and children should be Sally skulls, Richard challenge father was correspondent for the news of the world. Richard was into cars growing up, and as he got older, he was passionate about fast cars. He was funny with the way of talking to people that made him a natural salesperson. He started making good money selling cars. Richard friend set him up with Sally in those early years, Sally would go by Richards flat after school and clean and cook for him. Richard was on an office alley. He always had other. Women going as well. Two things in those early years are important to note. One is that Sally became pregnant at seventeen her brother took her for an abortion, Richard had stated to her and to them that it could have been anybody's, however, Sally only ever was with Richard, and he was the only man she had ever even thought of. Second thing that happened is something we would call nowadays. A red flag incident. Sally had stood up to Richard one day about him seeing other women. He physically dragged her down the stairs, and through her out the front door. Somehow, they still got married. Richard's old schoolfriend Dallin Blackmore was his best man at the wedding. He had a feeling that Sally's family was not very happy about her marrying Richard Richard had made her sign a prenup to protect his money. Everyone always joked about how tight Richard was, but Sally loved him. And everyone could see she was deeply attached as time went on most people on the outside saw the challenge marriage as successful, Richard owned his own car dealership by this time they soon had two sons and bought the grand home at one roughly ridge by all accounts, including her children's Sally was a wonderful, mother. Richard son said he was a normal father, the family, went on some nice holiday trips such as trips to Disneyland in Florida. The boys said they considered their first ten years to be relatively normal. People in their small communities saw differently the families in Klay gates socialized together and had dinner parties. There was gossip one neighbor whose children were the same ages as the challen- kids got to know them. Well, he said Richard was a man's man. He had the expensive cars designer clothes watches and more. He also said Richard made disparaging remarks about Sally's appearance, which embarrassed everyone, especially when he tried to get them to agree with him. He would say things like my God. She has a big arse and laugh and try to get people to say he was right. Richard also did have some trouble with the law in nineteen ninety one. His motorcycle was an police chase when they tried to stop in for speeding, the chase included hill cop cars in court. He got off because the police could not prove he was the one riding the bike. Then in two thousand six he crashed his Ferrari on a race track in Belgium, then shipped at home and claimed on his insurance that he was hit by a truck in the city where he lived this time in court. He was found guilty of fraud and received a fifty one week suspended sentence. There were other itchy type incidents where for two years in a row. Richard sent out Christmas cards with a picture of him with nude and topless. Women straddling him. This was a man with a wife and children. And those were the cards. He sent just him and nude women for Christmas. Many of the neighbors, if not most did not like him. One neighbor had said Richard was sleazy. If someone was having a dinner party, and people knew that Richard and Sally would be there, you would not get a good attendance. Richard was avoided socially whenever possible, and in some ways this isolated Sally socially, as well. Well as they got older Sally sons started to notice things, their mom did everything. She did everything at home, and she did all of Richard's business administration. When her youngest son, David was thirteen she got an office job with the Police Federation after that all the household expenses came out of her income. Their sons were aware of all this Richard was getting a Ferrari, a Cartier, watch and went to grand prix events. He was pretty much often his own thing, for example, one time in the middle of summer. Richard asked his son, David, why he wasn't in school. His own dad wasn't aware that he was on summer break from school. Both kids said Sally was loving kind and calm and accepting mom. They said she always listened to them later when one of her sons realized he was gay. It was Sally that he went to there was sort of an unspoken agreement, not to talk to their data about it to not even mention it to Richard, sadly, both kids remember their dad putting their mom down. Quite often thunder thighs was a common insult that he thought she had a giant asks was another Sally, very often got compliments on how she looked by other people. The boys said their father would usually respond with something like, well you haven't seen her without her clothes on. Things around the house, were always good and easy going when it was just the boys and their mom when their father got home things were different. They felt on edge. There were arguments over what Sally had chose to make for dinner, or Richard would complain if he didn't like how she made something when Richard was watching TV and someone was talking. He would turn the volume up to drown them out. Richard was also seeing other women. He had several mobile phones that he used after his death even more were found in the spare tire of his car when Sally would find out about other women Richard would deny it and tell her, she was crazy, which is a pretty common theme when pressed he became angry as he didn't feel he needed to answer any questions that he did not want to Sally's friends say Sally almost always talked about Richard. She just wanted to make him happy and feel loved by him. Sally did see her doctor for trouble sleeping. And what was called? Domestic stress, because so many people avoided Richard Sally did not have a lot of friends. Richard did not want her to see friends alone. There were only a few that he approved of and that was because he was friends with the women's husbands first before Sally had met them. One curious incident happened in the late nineteen nineties, one of Richard's, oldest friends had moved to Los Angeles. He had married and the two couples would get together several times year. This one evening. Everyone had gone up to bed. It was just Sally. Ann Richards, friend downstairs. They sit up to go to bed as well. And the friend gave Sally a hug and kiss. Goodnight this was not unusual. He hugged Sally, every time he saw her Richard came in at that moment, and asked, what was going on? The friend said, are you kidding? Neither the friend, nor Sally could believe he was serious. It was ridiculous to them after that holiday, Richard. Never talk to the friend again. He would not right back or answer. His calls Sally told another friend that night, Richard took her upstairs and raped her. The thing that is most often reported to be the breaking point for Sally, the thing that made her actually take steps to leave and get her own place was when a massage parlor, really abroa- thel was rated it was covered by local news reports. And it was staffed by women who are being trafficked, it was a brothel and these women were victims of human trafficking. There had been times when Sally had followed. Richard and this was one of the places that she had seen him go into soon after this. She bought the small home with their inheritance money. And she and David her youngest son moved there, her oldest son James was twenty five at the time and had already moved out with his girlfriend. It was November two thousand nine when Sally managed to break away. Still she struggled without Richard. She missed him and had a hard time knowing what to do without him. He had been her whole life, her closest friends said she was always on the phone to her talking about Richard. She kept telling her that she was doing the right thing, and she needed to give it time. But Sally was unable to do this, and what ended up happening was she started to talk to Richard about getting back together. He was willing to consider it, but it would be his way one Email. He wrote back to her said, I will consider your return on these terms, you will continue and complete, the divorce only with a two hundred thousand pounds settlements. She would have been entitled to much more after a thirty one year marriage that when we go out together, it means together this constant talking to strangers. Is rude and inconsiderate. We will agree to items in the home together to give up smoking to give up your constant interruptions, when I am speaking, those were his terms, Sally was desperate to reconcile. They began to see each other. And Richard was the one to suggest the long trip to Australia. Sally did worry that this was possibly a ploy by Richard to get her to the divorce turns. So he could walk away after the divorce with most of their money. Her divorce lawyer said, she stopped and started the divorce process thirteen times, David said that his mom's behavior was odd for the month before his dad was killed. He said she was distracted unfocused. She wouldn't listen after years of being pushed around and played with it was as if the ball was rolling when I found out what she'd done, I didn't even think to ask why in Sally's two thousand eleven. Trial Richards behavior was barely mentioned. The defense seemed to feel that attacking the murder victims character might look bad at the time of the Piel Sally was sixty four and seven years into her sentence by all accounts, Sally's still missed and loved, Richard. This may be shows just how strong a hold, he had on her by all reports. No one had anything positive to say about Richard. No neighbors, family members or friends, plenty Spokane Sally's defense, but not so with Richard the appeal was successful and she was released and a further hearing is scheduled for June seventh and a retrial in July of this year. If necessary. Sally has served nine years now and his home with her family. Speaking outside the court David challen, said today, we are overjoyed that bail has been granted for our mother. And she will now be released back to us. Our mother now, rejoins our family, ask what it will be like, when she walks out of prison on Saturday. He said, it's a massive moment. He added it's a happy day for us. We get to see her again. Okay. So I found a really great article in the guardian written by Julie Bendel, and I recommend reading the whole article, but I will just give you a little bit of a break down on it. And it does. In fact, mention Sally and her case as well. The main question of the article is, why are so many women charged with murder as opposed to manslaughter, if there is strong evidence of domestic violence. Give you a quick break on the cases that they mentioned Emma Humphreys was just seventeen years old when she was convicted of murdering her pimp boyfriend Trevor Armitage. This was in nineteen eighty five Humphries childhood was awful. It was filled with violence and abuse. Her stepfather was extremely violent. And she had witnessed regular abuse at age twelve she started to run away soon. She was victimized by men who turned her into prostitution. It started with just a bed for the night in exchange for sex at sixteen Humphries met Armitage. A local punter and moved in with him. Armitage immediately became violent and controlling Humphries was regularly raped, and beaten by her clients. Her life was just a pure hell. At trial, Humphrey was advised not to give any evidence unsurprisingly. She was convicted and sentenced to life little if anything was sudden, the court about the violence and abuse she had endured from Armitage as well as other men, there was no sympathy or understanding as to why this child with no history of violent offenses had been driven to kill. She was just seventeen years old. She had been imprisoned for seven years when she heard about Justice for women. They launched a campaign to get her an appeal, three years later Humphries won her appeal and walked out of the court. She was surrounded by supporters cheering. Her case made headlines around the world, and even resulted in a change to the law. Judges were now able to direct juries in such cases to take into consideration the whole life histories of women, like Humphries, many. Campaigners felt this is a great turning point would help other women in a position similar to Humphries. They would be more freely treated by the courts, and hopefully, better understood they were wrong in two thousand fifteen ferenza Martin twenty two was convicted of the murder of Kyle Farrell in two thousand fifteen and sentenced to thirteen years in prison. Martin who had the time had two small children with ferrall grabbed a knife when he tried to strangle, her for ELLs violence often left Martin in fear for her life. But she was too frightened to call the police in case social services became involved, and removed, her children, Burrell's history of violence was not adequately explored during the trial. Justice for women is campaigning for the case to go to appeal on the grounds that the evidence of domestic violence was not afforded enough significance during the trial. And then they mentioned the case of Sally challen. They say another case is that of Sally challen who killed her husband, Richard after decades of domestic abuse, Sally met, Richard when she was fifteen and he was twenty two Sally was abused and controlled by Richard from the beginning of their relationship, and then they go into how the course of control is affected. Sally now has a legal team. This was an article and her appeal against the murder conviction will be heard later this year on grounds that she was subjected to coercive, control for decades, she was given a sentence of twenty two years in two thousand and eleven. The prosecution suggested that her motive was jealousy. Richard had a number of affairs and also was known to have visited brothels on a regular basis. One neighbor said it was well known that he had an eye for the ladies. This is somewhat different to the way that many men who killed their female partners are treated. Infidelity is ready. Clearly used as a defence in such cases, often successfully by men who kill and yet women such as Humphrey are given no understanding or sympathy for their experience of horrendous domestic violence and sexual violence. In two thousand seventeen new grounds were submitted to the court of appeal claiming that at the time of killing the time of the killing Sally challenged, the subjected to course of control a form of abuse prevalent in domestic violence relationships that has only recently been made a criminal offence in two thousand sixteen Emma Jane magazine stabbed her partner James night after he had attacked attempted to strangle her. There was a known history of domestic violence perpetrated by night towards magazine on the night. He died night was captured on CCTV pushing magazine into the road. She had grown up witnessing horrific domestic violence, which led to mental health problems in later life during the murder trial. No mention of this history was made. Why are so many women charged with murder as opposed to manslaughter, if there is strong evidence of domestic violence. How different is the attitude to mend defending property than two women defending their own lives or the lives of their children, against violent men, the victims of domestic violence, who live in well-founded fear of their lives. Have the right to a fair trial? David James Sally's sons campaigned hard for her release. David posted a pitcher of the three of them when she was reunited with her boys outside of jail. She had served nine years at this point. And while always a very attractive woman you can see that she has been through. A lot. Her boys are very nice looking like their mom and look very happy to have her back. It was reported that her conviction was quashed by the court of appeal in February following a campaign by her two sons. This was quoted she admitted killing her husband, August two thousand ten but denied murder Mr Justice at a set of further hearing for June seventh and a trial date for July. I if necessary outside the Royal courts of Justice after the conviction was quashed David spoke to the press the abuse our mother suffered. We felt was never recognized properly and her mental conditions were not taken into account.

Richard Sally Richard Richard Sally David James Sally David murder Sally skulls Sally challen Piel Sally Sally Jenny Richard challen Richard friend Richard son Ann Richards assault Australia Richards Humphries London
Fletch With Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, and Chris Ryan

The Rewatchables

1:17:35 hr | Last month

Fletch With Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, and Chris Ryan

"Today's episode. The Re watchable is brought by state. Farm rant here. We love talking about movies that we watch. We Watch and watch him because they're just that. Get the thoughtful details. The little things other movies don't have that. Keep US coming back and here's the deal. When it comes to insurance. We can't get enough estate farm. Have all the details we appreciate. Make Insurance easy minor your coverage payer bill. Bill or even file quaint through their APP, which is where the Best Insurance Mobile, two thousand eighteen and thanks to their network of nineteen thousand agents. You have some local walkie through options. Help you choose a positive. Meet your individual needs versus cookie cutter coverage the good the a straight Oh gimmicks. No Games just guided. You can count on. It's a no-brainer. Go Out and get the insurance you deserve. Get state farm like a good neighbor state farm as their. Get quote. Find, an agent at state farm. Dot Com somebody's bucking for promotion. It's probably that pederasts Hanrahan fletch. is coming up next they call him fletch. Fletch Fletch? He's good at defending. HIMSELF GOTTA tire shoelaces. Whole. Disguising himself. And, getting himself into trouble, while at beef fletch, go ahead. Make my day. He's a reporter. Tim Universal Pictures Presents Chevy Chase. As, fletch my hero. Alright shop. Fantasies Hair Chris Ryan is here. Wasn't ashamed to admit to us recently that he has syphilis. and. It's been a rough ride for him and marge. Is this podcast? GonNa be one hundred and ten minutes of just quoting this movie to each other. Yeah, I think it is. This is one of the most quotable movies ever made. Its weirdly. Rooted in the eighties, I tried to watch us with my son. He left after twenty minutes. He was like this sucks may be questioned the whole thing. It's came out thirty five years ago. It's fantastic. It makes me laugh. Every time at it is the most quotable movie of the eighties with maybe to exception shot fantasy your number one take on this movie. I think if you don't get Chevy Chase, you will never get this movie and Chevy. Chase is a is a relic of a different time. I was just chatting with our producer Craig before the started, and he was like. What's the deal here? Why is this a thing? I don't get it and I think that that's going to be not uncommon for everybody who? who was born after nineteen, ninety five, but for us, Chevy was a was more than a thing i. mean he was? He was one of the comic icons of the late seventies and early eighties, and so if you like Chevy than you like this movie, we're not starting with this energy. We are not starting off with Craig and bill's son. Don't like this move. Is a stone cold, fucking classic, and we need to put respect on Fletcher's name. Very, fair I had a whole. Chevy Chase. Thing that put at the top of my document here because I don't think we can discuss this movie without talking Chevy Chase background on him for the for the nonbelievers like Craig in my son. I seize the vessel. There's only one breakout star. It's Chevy. Chase his on weekend. Update New York magazine comes out probably eleven twelve weeks into the premiere of the show. He's on the cover and says I'm Chevy Chase, and you're not becomes. A breakout breakout show star the logical successor to Johnny Carson. Transcends the show to the point that after the first season. It's a contract negotiation whether he's GonNa to stay, he wants more summations. Agents get involved all the sudden. He's leaving. He leaves four episodes into season. Two as the show is becoming e what it became by which really happens around season three. When it becomes entrenched, he goes on to make movies from Nineteen, seventy eight to nineteen eighty. He makes I separated this in the six quadrants and we're GONNA. Talk about each quadrant as we go here for. Only four quadrants. Six! I. Don't think your tone. Foul play. Style play huge with Goldie Hawn. Chevy Chase's the movie star here we go. Oh, heavenly dog, uh-huh Chevy Chase might not be movie star caddyshack boom well. It's not totally Chevy Chase movie. We're still that sure seems like old times him and Goldie Hawn again. Yeah maybe a movie star Let's just talk about those four films I. Shown you go I. Well I was trying to figure out who Chevy Chase thought he was trying to be, and there's a little bit of confusion. I think at the outset of his career where he imagines himself because he's a tall handsome guy who is very very confident. Performer economy seems like he thinks he's like Carey grant or Jimmy Stewart. Carey grant it's care. Yeah, taking on those kinds of parts and taking on the kind of like lighthearted mystery movies or the mix up movies where there's a some dramatic tension, but he relies on his comic charm to get us through the story always with a very. Able foil female, lead Goldie, obviously one of the best from that era, and I think that those movies are okay. It's amazing how they don't have any reputation like if if we think it's hard for people to understand, what is you know foul play and seems like old times were big movies. I feel like foul play in particular was like a was a golden. Globe nominated movie. You know these are movies. That had a big profile, but nobody really talks about them anymore. Mostly because I think Chevy was miscast himself for what he should have become, and then he kind of starts to resolve that once once, caddyshack comes in the mix. What do you think Chris Yeah? It's tough because I. I think that this is a guy who essentially doesn't give a shit. That's as bit. You know what I mean that that May. That may not be actually what Chevy Chase things, but his greatest quality is playing up being a wise ass, who kind of is too cool for school in every case, and that's such a foreign thing for our movie stars now like I can't think of a star right now. WHOSE ENTIRE AURA is, he's just like this is beneath him to actually be doing this, and he'd rather be doing something else. He'd rather be hanging out with a supermodel or smoking. A cigarette by a pool Chevy Chase had that quality, and it was a really distinctive vibe from him. so He's also going against tight because on Saturday night live. He's not just a wise ass, but he's the pratfall guy and he's doing Gerald Ford, just fallen over in different sketches. Joe Ford raises the president. And he's also opening the show and each snl opens with pratfall until he gets hurt, he actually like I think either ruptured his testicles or some sort of bad podium accident in May end up missing a show so I think he was going against type with that out of those first four movies. CADDYSHACK is the closest to what I think. We all wanted Chevy Chase to be in a movie. 'cause he's tie web. We haven't done caddyshack in the Rewatch ables yet. I don't Wanna tip anything off, but there is a forty year anniversary coming up this summer. You know we like anniversaries on the rewatch -able sometimes. Tie Web is one of my favorite characters I. Think he's ad-libbing most of it. It's really there'd the if you're GONNA say tie with ty, Webb versus fletch. What are the what are the differences and similarities I? Don't think there are any differences. Fletch is basically tie web. Anything different. Maybe just the tie web seems rich, and and Fletch doesn't. Yet I also think that there's a difference in having fletch be in every shot of Fletch and tie web kind of being more of a tertiary character in caddyshack true. all right so now we go, so we're in pretty good shape here. With Chevy which quadrant Rian were got. We're heading into the second of our six squadrons. It's the third master but this. Third Bird Mestre the six quadrant. I've really liked to foul play Shawn's right has not is not a movie. That's disgust anymore I think seems like old. Times says held up in a lot of ways as kind of the precursor to the ROM COM era that comes in the ninety s in full steam. 'cause it. She's married to Charles Grodin her. Her first husband is Chevy. It's actually a good one it's it's a good re watch for the people listen at their nineteen eighty-one things fall apart. He makes under the rainbow huge bomb. and He makes modern problems which I remember seeing in the theater 'cause I love Chevy Chase so much and. It's just abominable, and it's even worse than that because he almost gets electrocuted during the filming a modern problems. You know this'll story. Yeah, no, he has to. His character is wearing landing lights because he dreams that he's an airplane. The lights bow function. An electric current passes through his arm back neck muscles. Any almost is, it's a near death experience. He's also battling cocaine and other stuff. During this time goes into a huge depression. His marriage ends. And that's eighty. One does not make a movie in nineteen eighty two so now he's like so many people in this era falling star, which moved us to new the third of our six quadrants. Vacation Yeah. The comeback. A movie that I think is. Directly that like the father of some of the EPA Tower accommodates. You see a lot of the same. Certainly, they hadn't DNA. They're tied. Phillip stuff yeah. I feel like this is where he figures out that he has one other pitch. This is where he he. He figures out his fastball curveball, so his fastball is smartest guy in the room. Probably the biggest asshole in the room. His curveball is thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, but his actually the dumbest guy in the room, and as soon as he hits that he kind of figures out how to be more of a movie star one of those, too, so to be fair. They tonight three. He also made deal of the century. which is an amazing wikipedia. Because we freed kids the director, but it's a comedy in Segovia Weaver's in it and Gregory Hinds Chevy Chase and it was reviled. Yeah it's it that movie and best defense quickly ended the arms dealer comedy genre that was for some reason developing just ended until they brought it back with dogs yeah. So now we're still not sure what Chevy it's like. Did he just get lucky with vacation? What really happened there? Then we hit eighty, five, eighty six, where he rips off fletch European vacation spies like us in three Amigos. And suddenly he's one of the biggest stars in the world again. And off. Four of those are good choices. The three Amigos. Get some back with Lorne Michaels, which is huge. He works with Dan Ackroyd and spies like us. He's back in the good graces of that late Seventies. Comedy community right because the Bill Murray all those guys that Kinda turned on him style. He's back. He's figured it out I. Think he goes to drug Rehab and eighty six to cleans up a painkiller. But at that point is one of the Oh Jeez. It's like he's neck and neck. With Bill Murray and you know if you're just talking like biggest comedians. Were quadrant five, he hosts. Two Straight Academy Awards. Which I had forgotten. Then that leads us to the last quadrant. Eight, hundred, eighty nine. He does the couch trip. Funny Farm, fresh lives Chris fletch lives in Christmas vacation, so he makes sixteen movies. In twelve years and has four different incarnations of himself. And if you go back and you read the Old William Goldman pieces that he wrote for Your magazine. Like, he's talking about Chevy Chase. Like is one of the biggest stars and movie. If you have Chevy Chase you can open a movie stuff like that. The nineties come the wheels. Come off, and that's it but. It's a really really bizarre. Up and down arc, and you can only blame the drug era as one of the reasons why this is the eighties weird shit happens at the says we keep saying over and over again. It's just hard to even come up with a common theme to career like that one of my favorite bits. That I saw when I was reading up. About chases earlier specifically, but just that that eighties run. Is something that I was in the New, York magazine bit where. They were talking about him as a possible Johnny Carson replacement. Generally great, what if with him where I guess he made like a kind of sideways comment about not I. Would Never WanNa have to like talk to TV stars five nights a week. I I I would hate to be tied down to a job like that forever. And after that Carson took a shot at him in public about his ad-libbing ability, couldn't ad Lib Fart after a Baked Bean, dinner or something like that, and you just kind of wonder, because obviously he has a personality that is absolutely perfect for being a talk show host for doing that that kind of monologue in that breezy banter. What is career would have been like if you hadn't made that. One offhand comment about the tonight. Show right, it's. It's it's funny that you say that. Though because I I watched him on Carson last night when he was promoting Fletch I, Dunno, if you guys have seen this clip, balance the one where he comes out, and he's wearing the LAKER's uniform and they've got a basketball hoop setup, and he he like does same move that he does in the movie where he put the ball behind his back in his legs and scores, and then he comes kind of out of breath, and he sits down next the Johnny and there's something just. A little bit tense between him, and Johnny it's, it's funny, but you can sense. The Johnny just thinks the Chevy. Chase's an asshole and it is, it is a thing that is kind of coursing through his relationship, so while I agree that he would be probably ace at doing the bits that you need to talk show host he such an ungenerous performer like everything. He doesn't sell other people. People he sells himself all the time and for Fletch. It's perfect because he's not in the middle of the frame the whole time it's all about him, but anytime he has to be with somebody else. He just doesn't work as well, but it's funny. What that what you're saying about? Weird Eighty Shit Bill. Do you remember who he co hosted the Oscars with the first time you hosted? Now who was it so in the eighties? They used to do this thing. Where rather than there be one host? If they didn't feel like, they could get a stronger person, they'd have a number of people. And then we saw this later on like James, Franco and Anne hathaway to this, but it was a callback to in one, thousand, nine, hundred seven, he hosted with Goldie Hawn who had starting to movies with and Paul Hogan. Dundee. And Chevy obviously was the best part of that, and then so the next year they invite him back and he hosted Solo but like this was a very weird time to be a comedy celebrity. You know you could do a lot of different kinds of things. I'm a certified Chevy allergist. And the best thing ever written about him was in the Saturday book by I. Think Doco Jeff Wang Grad. I think we're their names and you can get it. It's it's available as new book. I think it's out of print, and it's honestly one of the best five TV film books I think of all time. It's about the first ten years this Saturday live. And just incredible reporting and all the stores and they wrote a whole chapter about Chevy Chase in there. About like his life, basically unraveling because I have famous was where that shows being watched by thirty five million people. and. He was the breakout star and a lot of the stuff that he did that was genuine like allow the pratfalls, goofy and class clown stuff. All you start doing that, but you're a star, and everybody is just laughing at whatever you do, and it's heading into the cocaine era, and he just kind of unravels. Bill Murray has a good quote. There's also the history of SNL that Tom Shales Jamila did where Bill Murray says. When you become famous. You've got like a year to where you act like a real asshole. You can't help yourself. It happens to everybody you've got like two years to pull it together, or it's permanent and he's talked about Chebbi. So Chevy has that stage, but he leaves us now he goes to. La Becomes a movie star. He just becomes an asshole and he was legendary astle. There is the piece the Washington Post piece. One was at like four five years ago. That fiasco community Yeah, just like this guy's a huge asshole. They had that comedy Central Roast where they all these people who don't know him, because they could barely getting friends because you really have that, many friends they. They come in. They just skewer him, and it's really sad. It's it's. He's definitely a Hollywood fame drug era casualty in a lot of ways because it seems like people, he would keep coming back to SNL. He hosted a few times. It's like Lauren couldn't totally let him go, but Lauren kind of also one how it played out his dad. This power struggle Chevy lost the whole thing's bums me out though I really loved the guy and I ask. The reason we're spending so much time this I feel like he was a one to one I. Don't think there's any ever been anybody quite like him. You know and you could say that about burying. You could say that about Jimbo John Belushi does some degree, but Chevy's like like nobody's come before a sense that did exactly what he did. Yeah, and I think that that's why fletch is so good is because every other person in Fletch? lets him cook like everybody else. In fletch plays the straight person. The only person who even actually takes the bait is the Joe Don Baker character. She Harlan almost everybody else seems oblivious to him doing his bits, and it actually makes the movie what it is because if everybody if everything stopped every time, he gave himself a fake name and was like I'm Ted Nugent, or whatever if Tim? Matheson characters like wait a second Ted nugent I do that is the whole movie falls apart right? If you just pretend like this guy is the biggest prick, but also the funniest prick you've ever met. You can make anything you want like that. I agree, yeah I. Agree too I mean I it's funny. Most of the people regard him with like a mild bemusement. You know like Emmet Walsh doctor and your icon Dana Wheeler Nicholson. smirks at him. A lot is like. Aren't you cute and never really interrogate anything that he's doing ever. It's kind of amazing trick, so Chevy says this is what he said. In one of the histories fame as a huge thing that is in your life. We know that taking drugs to self medicating. But what are we medicating? Something that's hurting us usually depression of some kind or some sort of sadness. Something stressful, right? That's what we're self medicating well. Fame is extremely stressful. That's why so many people who become famous so fast self medicate, and what is there to self medicate with a hundred dollar bill, and if it's nineteen, seventy-five, some cocaine, or some pot or something? And then he says later. It's also very frightening thing because it's the most stressful things. There's a certain amount of post traumatic stress about him being a regular guy and then suddenly becoming an extremely famous one. I. Know Chris. Battles with this every day I mean as we watch Chris Become. When the Pacino imitations really went to another level like about Chris and he's started when you're cocaine issues start I mean. You. Guys have to me now through for through my team at Gersh. He also says. This is really a Chevy has some great quotes about this? In all children, there's reservoir of self doubt and guilt and sense of low self esteem I think so one lives with this kind of Dul. Isn't this disparity between the marvelous Bajic of becoming accepted by so many so fast, and at the same time a lingering sense that one doesn't deserve it and sooner or later will be found out. Lorne used to say that Coke was God's way of telling you that you have too much money he used to say. Don't stand one thing if you're gonNA take anything rotate them. This was a long time ago. Learned that goes with some drug advice. So for the kids staying at listening at home. Don't stay in one thing. If you're going to take anything, rotate them, but yes very very easy to shift away from cocaine. move onto orange juice for awhile you know shifts back in a you know I'll lemon water, and then back to heroin, and then back to cocaine, and just the that's the virtuous cycle of addiction. I think that thing would chevy is that everybody was rooting a at like I didn't know he was an asshole. When I was sixteen fifteen I just I knew him as the the guy who is really fun guy and we update who was great caddyshack, and who made the Goldie Hawn movies so when it when he reemerged air, eighty three and rips off all these comedies. On our side, we don't know that is an Aso. We didn't know that he could have been the next Johnny Carson and all that stuff. It's you know. He was out of the guys from the seventies I. Think Kim Nba Murray specifically rape and navigate what came next with the Letterman era of the the sarcasm era basically Letterman Seinfeld. All those guys Chevy actually fit in better in that air than the previous era. I just don't think that being a wise ass is really celebrated anymore like something changed where we don't really identify that person as the funniest person but that. You've talked about it even with the Chandler character on friends like all the way up the chain through the ninety s that was the funniest guy and it's. It was interesting how you're just reading those quotes that he's when he's reflecting. What happened to him because he sounds so vulnerable when he's talking about the problems that he had in dealing with fame, but his comedy persona is completely invulnerable. Never showing a soft side. He's never letting anybody in. He's always the same and flash like. Does he even have feelings and Fletch? He's just these just the joke machine. Yeah, and it's like I feel like we've kind of gone through the cringe comedy period of curb through Nathan for you, and and this kind of almost like experiential like observational humor where the the main character is also. is also very cringe-worthy, and that that is so different from chases thing where no matter how desperate fletch gets, he's all always a step ahead of the person who is in a scene with. It's interesting because I just saw the Pete Davidson movie the Staten Island movie. He's basically doing two thousand and twenty Chevy Chase and a lot of ways in that movie. He's wisecracking can't be serious guy, so it is an archetype, and he's just a different version of it. Right is covered in tattoos and he's at had a bunch of personal issues. We know about, but. It's Kinda the same setup and I was. Sean I kind of enjoy it I don't know why it's. It became a law star and what's interesting about this movie specifically? You know it became A. Phenomenon after the fact with blockbuster. Cable TV it's the perfect. TNT TBS Comedy Central. Move with commercials. It's an hour thirty seven. It's almost like they made the absolute perfect length of a movie to have commercials. They're also bad scenes in this movie. Yeah, and it just keeps going. You get sucked in all that stuff, so they around two thousand Kevin. Smith wants to remake it. Goes through this. Multi Year Odyssey with. Harvey Weinstein, he wants Jason. Lee Kevin Smith, he's convinced Jason. They should be the next fletch. Harvey, Weinstein's like he's not a big enough name. Somehow affect enters the conversation which is really interesting, because I feel like Affleck is kind of a wise ass. Then that dies then bill. Lawrence comes in and he's. He's hot from scrubs and he wants to do it, and it's been in development hell for twenty years and nobody's redone it and it's now were on the floor fourth decade without Fletch, but it seems like a really easy thing to resurrect I'm I'm shocked that it hasn't happened Chris. Who would be your ideal? Two Thousand Twenty Fletch? It's tough because I. I was just thinking about like the other examples on TV or in movies of people who are trying to do Chevy. Joel Mikhail's doing Chevy Chase in community with Chevy Chase in the shrine. Do Gosling He might be a little too pretty, but in some of the stuff that he's done especially a nice guys. He has that kind of That kind of smart assery nailed down and he's actually way closer like Chevy Chase's sense of humor in his talk show appearances than he is in the movies that he's in. Yeah I think it's funny. Michael Keaton was the other kind of wise ass guy from the eighties. Yeah, that had a great run. He was really sincere, though like I'm mean. He was in gung-ho like he had true. But I'm saying like when he like his in night. Shift that guys just like. Should it's. A At some point, we're doing nightshift watchos night shift is kind of like seems like Old Times. Though that's like a movie that I don't think people have seen like it didn't get that that cable streaming bump the. Other people isn't. NIGHTSHIFT ABOUT CORPSE FUCKING! What's going on there great? Is Craig Craig. Can you come on the one second? Yeah. Craig, would you believe in nineteen eighty two? They made a movie. These two guys worked at a morgue. They ended up taking over becoming pimps for a bunch of prostitutes in running it out of the work that that was a very successful nineteen eighty comedy. It sounds like. We do. Very! Good answer. Thanks Puppet Greg. Let's talk about fletch really quickly, so it's a Gregory MacDonald novel, which I'm sure Chris owns cream you read. I've read one of yeah. Yeah, they're. They're very good day day. Are All the newer stuff. All the voice over stuff feels very of the book, but the scenes and and his like obviously ad Lib. Dialogue is is kind of a a variation on it says it's a deviation from it, so a producer named somebody burroughs I deleted his first name beginning July seventy six got the rights. And then every studio rejected for eight years. And then Michael Douglas Was the one who got it over the finish line as a producer back when he was the most interesting man in the world and starring also. Producing them eight million dollar budget. Made Fifty nine million bucks. Twenty, four point four million in video rentals. And, God, only knows how many how many millions they've made just in networks, licensing it for I bet one point. Two million of those are just like Bill Simmons, late fees on returning fletch throughout his life. You know what's funny. It took me like probably four years to really embrace this movie. I saw once it was fine. It is one of those movies that wears you down. 'cause I E and that's why it's a very watchable it's. Shit all right. He's at the country club I'll just watch the scene, and it becomes one of those movies because there's some bad scenes in this movie you know I I taught. Nothing's happening. It's like you don't like it is. Amos movie, but the the. Stuff just carried it as a cable cable comedy. I I feel like is one of the Oh Jeez Seventy seven on rotten tomatoes, I know Sean Cares. No meaningless Roger Ebert. Raj come through man. Two and a half stars. Raj, said This is the problem is chase's performance tends to reduce all the scenes to the same level. Yeah, that's the point Raj at least as far as he's concerned, he projects such an inflexible mask of cool detachment. Of Ironic running commentary that were prevented from identifying with them, fletch needed actor more interested in playing the character than playing himself Raj. Fuck off That is just awful. Really Talk About Biscuit movie. leaper comedy takes are really consistently bad. That's amazing that he didn't see this movie. Sean defender. Boy I can't I re watched the SISKEL and Ebert segment from the movies. When this movie came out last night, and SISKEL nailed it. He was on it. He was like. Chevy Chase has been miscast for years. He's been waiting his whole career to have a guy like this to play, or the ironic detachment was the whole point of the character, just set him up to knock him down, and he very clearly in the moment gets with important. The movie is and then Raj comes through, and he's like no, this is wrong. This is not how movies should be. Movie should be about the character being invested in the story and the audience being invested in the character, and he does missed it. He just he missed the point did Ebert want it to be like the big sleep or something? I duNNo. I duNNo. Sad Faraj Ebert with thought it was a drama. He was confused by other one lighters denote was. Like the killing field. Why isn't this chariots of fire? Should have been one of the sidekicks. let's go to the categories most re watchable scene. It's funny that there's not really rewatch. -Able scene for about twenty minutes, and then fletch goes to get a physical. They start ripping off. rewatch seeds from that point on. Did some sit ups in the morning Ben over like this I'd probably feel. One hundred percent ooh river. Thank you, doc. Ever serve time. These Easy. You know. I was surprised that Allen was able to get that policy. I know there's a history of cancer in the family there is. As a matter of fact. Using the Vista. When my son didn't love this scene, I really started a question whether I was his father. I might have to have a DNA test. I was like. How do you not think this is funny? Thank you, doc. You ever serve time as the whole fist act like he's just. River River. And my son is just stone face watching them all right. I give up. Just go go play your video games. Destroy the next generation actually next re watchable scene. It's a short one, but the Lakers dream sequences so goddamn enjoyable chick Kurd Karim. Six five six with the Afro The sports footage. All, that's great next one. Fletch, fixing airplanes with buck teeth. Do you. Think the bypass line, right. I think a bypass line, yeah! I'm GonNa, need some flyers and set at thirty eight ball bearings black. Tell you what I gotta go to my truck Fred gets here. Point back. You can tell them start without me. He'll you need barons? Oh come on guys. It's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey, it's all ball bearings nowadays. It's all ball bearings disease days it's. Was that Jim Varney. No He's not. The Guy who looks like Jim Varney, but it's not yet. He's the Guy Jim Varney market corrected martyrdom that guy. Then the Second Tennis Club visit now I'm happy to put the first tennis club visit into it kind of ends abruptly. The Second Tennis Club visit which includes him ordering caviar twice. Charge it to the UNDERHILL's. Yeah, that's right. Do you have any caviar? Eighty dollars. Off. Better just take two portions of that How's The lobster thermidor? Good that'd be fine. Bring two bottles of DOM perignon one goods. And put down thirty dollars for yourself Place the gale stanwick opened the door. In a towel. Can I borrow your how my car to Water Buffalo? I got out of the shower. Can I borrow your towel for sick. My car just hit a water buffalo. Mice place you have here. the guys delivering double lobster. The two bottles of Champagne give each other twenty dollars. The Guy Mr, underhill getting the bill. Dom perignon one hundred dollars a pop Jesus H Christ. Where is it? Where's she? Want Jesus H Rice. That was the first time I've ever heard that movie and then the Mrs Stared work. Work. Just all of that five minutes, and then flach saying like hey. I'm actually this report. From the only times. Your husband's a fraud and Gail stanwick just nonplussed. Like Oh, really my husband's a fraud. He's been married to another person like just. It's all bouncing offer everything about it's great. Jail Stan works just a great hangman. Where we're getting into her later sh next. Scene Fletch steals a kids offer Mayo other. Could the stealing it? Afternoon Patrol. Had your emissions checked Nassir fluorocarbons ozone. No, Sir, well. Let's check it out. We stay. Pretty good. Escapes the police. Somehow there's no helicopter. Never gets broken. Local news ends up at Fred Dorfman's lunch. And does the Fred Horford probably chases best ninety seconds of the movie? All things considered the way he works. The crowd gives a speech gets the God bless America. All, that's really good. Thank you very much, Sammy. Thank you. I couldn't wait. The very nice introduction, and I am very thrilled and proud to be here today and I'm wonderful ceremony so far here on behalf of our own Fred. The, door, Dorfman. Many of you don't know. The Fred was darn near death recently. Wasn't ashamed to admit to me that he'd had listen. Thank God, he's stopped into tracks. It's tremendous, and then the last one is. I'm just going for the tail. End I really like how it ended. is on the beach with Gail when it came to basketball. Gayle is the loss, but we had our own version one on one, and she thought I was the brave guy in the world, which of course I am by the way I changed tire V. I charge you tire vacation Mr Underhill's American. Express card want the number. Boo Movie Ans- so. I don't know what beats. They were on where there's literally nobody on the beach, so any other re watchable scenes for you guys, yes? A Lot I broke mine down into Mr Bar Dr Rosen Pitas John Cocktails in Mr Poon Eager Stravinsky. That with Dr Rosen Pena's. You have to have the autopsy and they're like. What is this like? You never get used to the smell. Is Incredible. Just camera tight on his face the whole time. Feel Good Oh. Oh, you never use the smell, do you? Think what he wakes up and then the the physicians in there and they're just like. The, score the guys. The guy the autopsy when he says he's like sterile I spy. Hansie's like you're not. You'RE NOT GONNA. Make this guy and he's sicker. This. Listen I'm not really prepared for this. I. Haven't sterilize my hands, so you're not gonNA. Make this guy and he's sicker. Visited there. What else yeah. I just the entire Mr Poon seen. SEC and him talking about Hanrahan as you mentioned and. Boy Getting really up up in his face and I also had yeah I actually. I actually liked like all the moments of him in the Motel in Utah where he's doing the different voices and the woman running the desk just keeps looking over him. It was just like it's Ebor Stravinsky I'm here to check in on that ranch property so yeah, those are the couple that I had. I love the interrogation with chief Karlin. There's one other character fletch fletch. Like, what do you do for a living Mr Fletch I'm a shepherd. Officers, could you excuse us very minutes few minutes? He's like yeah. Why don't you guys go to the gym and Pump Each Other? It's like why are you doing this? MR, fletch and he says I like men I like to be manhandled I like you and then he winks. Joe Don Baker, incredible. My My single favorite is is when he goes to the tennis club the second time. It's just a perfect like six minutes. I underlined that it's great. Why did your lunch here because it's where I knew my mouth was going to be. It's he's just ripping them off. I think my favorite my favorite character that he plays. The airplane mechanic! It! There's a tremendous amount of on these windows. Just like although well, he's the boss in those guys just bullshitting with each other. That's that's my most watchable. Yeah. His best moves are the bucktoothed airplane Guy, and then just that one scene where he's got. He's like a mock or whatever George Carlin's hair. Yes, we're skating. He's the and it's really Chevy Chase and he's doing really. It's kind of amazing. What do you have for US watchable Sean? Definitely. Dr Dolan and. Two! One B. B.. BYARD. Now. How long had these pains with Barbara? Now? That's the bar. To. One B.. Yeah, but not right next to each other. I thought that's. That's my favorite part of the movie. There's a really subtle when the when it leads to Dr Recipe in his when he looks at the director in every doctor s Rosen. Thirteen doctors roses Dr. Rosen Roses Rosen. Where's the records room? What's age the best, so Tim Matheson is cast as the villain Alan Stanwick. Who is trying to get fletch in there? So he can eventually murder. FLETCH burn his body. There's a really cool animal house symmetry here that I was appreciated because Chevy Chase was supposed to be an animal house. And was basically too big of a star at that point and felt like. It was a backward move, but when they wrote Animal House, they wrote. Tim Matheson think his character is otter. they wrote that character. They thought it was gonNA. Chevy. Chase, then when you watch animal, house. Tim Matheson is just doing a chevy chase impersonation. It's not actually Chevy Chase like that. They, they circle that full steam or getting find this guy who looks like me. Go Kill him in its Tim Matheson playing the Guy What's the Best Mr Underhill? To scenes. The first one? The first one he just. Just the way to shreds. Basically maybe next sure you'd want a gratuity will maybe next time it's so evil doesn't look like I'm finished. And then the second one is four hundred dollars so Jesus H Christ. He's just such a great parity of coach. It's like they took judge. Snails just crossed with Hitler and gave them Mr Undergo. Another would sage the best, Kareem's IMDB. Which inexplicably has that Bruce Lee movie airplane and Fletch? What a run! Unbelievable I. You could argue is probably the most successful athlete actor right? What else is on there Sean? Most, successful athlete actor, just no I am debate, not not saying success. AB- saying if you just glance at the IMDB. In his game of game of death, we as a pivotal scene in that ray was that was that game a death bruce game of death. Yeah, he's incredible in the game of Death I. Mean Airplane Fletch. He did an episode of twenty one jump Street. That's tight. He was in D. to the mighty ducks. Oh Wow and he was in a really pivotal different strokes Yup and he was to build a new class and He was in basketball. Be Great job by him. I have a I have a contender for this title yet. Jim Brown. So that Game Jim Brown Mars attacks any given Sunday running man and dirty dozen. Pretty good. It's pretty good and I'm GonNa get you sucker. Dirty dozen was like an actual real role in a great movie. Yeah, that he has speaking lines and stuff I got to say. You know. He's not he's not red hot right now, but I. Think Oj Simpson. towering inferno, naked gun, two iconic one's. Cool! During Oj now wired OJ. Never get the final three quadrants, six quadrants of. Guys made fun of it I just. Another what's age the best? The secretary, going up. Sorry, who you again a free does boss. WHO's Frieda by Secretary. Here's the complete list of of pseudonyms he used other than. would. What was it Fletch Fletch Fletch, fletch F- fletch Fletch fletch. Ted. Nugent Arnold Bob. Dr Rose appeanas stuck to rose's Rosen John cocteau stone Mr Poon. Eager Stravinsky Gordon, Liddy, John Levinstein Don, corleone, and Harry S Truman. Dunklin forgotten what the corleones part yeah! To in Utah, hold on a second Craig Comeback. I'm here. I'm here. Craig Yeah, so you you tell me you didn't laugh when? I didn't like what I don't know when when when the lady comes up and says Sugar Mr Poon. Whole, mood was like after a joke live looking. Pretty good right and then she's. Learning is. Also, folks. Dad. Oh my God. This is tag. All. Wow okay, I have no children. Let me just say that and I love Fletch Aamer. I. Think you react too much to what Liz reaction to the movie is. Maybe you should stand up for yourself a little more. I think you could not. All right back to what's age the best? Music by her fault Meyer Amazing Eighty Yeah you know what? I feel like we need to hear a little bit yeah. I like how he starts out and you think like. Oh, it's going to be this kind of music. But then the Herald. He puts in that second one belanger Thomas Thomas Dolby. Starts doing this. You compare the Thomas Dolby influence. So he has this in Beverly Hills cop right next to each other, and can I say he'll be coming up apex mountain later. Honorable Mention for the song played during the Alfa Romeo Chase. Get Outta town get Outta town. Get Outta Town I. Think the only lyric. Isn't bit by bit in this as well. Yeah Yeah. Isn't that like the theme from Fletch Pretty Pretty? INTERESTING MUSIC IF I bet mills, Seventy Mills Yeah Cisco made a very obvious but good point in that in that clip. I was talking about where he's basically like. One as soon as Beverly Hills cop hit. It. This movie made a lot more sense because you could put two big action sequences in it, and you could put the Herald fall to Meyer music in it, and then all of a sudden. What seems like a weird Ri- comedy all the sudden becomes an action comedy, and it's easier to sell to audiences. You can make the trailer a lot more easy. You can give it a little bit more energy at those smart. Little ahead of its time there any other. What's best for your guess? Yeah? I wanted to give a special shout out to his apartment. with the magic bird life size poster and the Full Basketball Hoop on the wall. Yeah, the Perfect Bachelor pad like the Guy who still has the sensibility of like. When he was in college and would just like randomly put sports shit up on the walls and call a decorating, but it's like De Force divorce say only cares about the writing for the paper and the Lakers at it looks like actually perfect for the character. And then I had one more would say the best i. just really like his Lakers. Jersey s just that old school eighties. It's kind of a Jersey and kind of like a like. It's more expensive than t shirt, but less expensive than Jersey whatever was going on with that. Look in the eighties, but it's a little faded. It's a good purple. That's a really fun Lakers year, too. Because that was year, the Celtics beat them in the finals. I was just GonNa. Say I'm surprised that you like this movie given how much leakers fandom is an prime part of it? Although wait a second, they beat in the final. Fuck. This I recant my statement. Yeah, this eighty five. She canceled this pod Yeah Damn it well I mean Craig. Hardy, through a big bucket of water, but was. You'll the energy. Craig's getting to get what he'll get. Thanks to twitter when this comes out, people are going to be very upset. A crack telling you What's age the worst? Way We. Can I do one more? What's as the best? Yeah my Guy Michael Ritchie. One of the all time greats. You Love Michael Ritchie. Yeah. This one came out of nowhere to. We thought Michael Ritchie might have been done. He hadn't made a big movie in a long time and he comes in. It's like a for hire job. This is this is the all time. Best sports movie director ever look at his IMDB. He has the best run downhill. Racer. Bad News bears semi tough. Bad News bears go to Japan and and Fletch and wildcats. That's amazing digs down in the ninety S. That's incredible run. Chon. We don't speak of bad news. Bears go to Japan. I'm sorry. This? Happen, he didn't direct just produced it. He directed all the other ones. Am I imagine this or did he shampoo? He didn't do champ. That's how. Running to. And did he do Golden Child? He the Golden Child which is, didn't he? Do something from the seventies that was signature beyond downhill racer, the candidate the candidate. That's what it was. Yeah, he's one of. He's really underrated. Candidate two months ago and it still great. I really really highly recommend the candidate. If you're super board, it's on Amazon. It's on Oliver Place. What's age the worst Allenstein rex plan? It's just ridiculous I. Don't know what He's thinking is Oh, I've been scouting this crack addict for two weeks. Who looks like me and I'm going to have him. Shoot me, but then when it comes to shoot me. I'll actually out kill him, and then I'll burn his body, and there's no such thing as DNA or dental evidence yet. It's I don't know what he's doing. It's very Raymond Chandler, and like the those plots for these kinds of L. A., nor are you know famously inscrutable like even I remember. There's like this famous story about William Faulkner trying to adapt a big sleep, but he calls up Raymond Chandler to ask him to explain the plot and Raymond. Chandler's like I have no idea. And I wrote it, so it's not surprising that there are parts of the Allen Stanwick part of this movie that don't make any sense. Also, if the book was in the Mid Seventies, it made a little more sense that you could burn somebody in pretend it was you, but by the time we get to eighty five. Yeah, we have. We have some sort of science going at that point. What stage the worst I you know what I don't like the Stephanie Mills Bit by bit at the beginning Whoa Yeah I. Think you just go right to tomorrow? Let the shift cook. Concern. For the first two minutes, and then rate, as we're about to get to the last five credits in Audubon to Chevy on the beach and then fall, tomorrow comes in. Just let the chef Cook I. Don't know why they over thought that when it was almost like a Stephanie, mills, it's like she's hot. She'll really help the movies. She's on her way up Wolf Sneaker Song is I. Don't like that more. What's age the worst Craig? Craig's. Craig's age the worse for his take of not liking fletch. It's GonNa aged terribly. Craig the biggest the most tension we've ever had on a remarkable as the jennings really hurt by getting LEDA. Eddie other what stage the worst. Can I talk a little bit about what Chevy's wearing in the movie. The scene when he goes into, see, or he's taken into the police chief. He's wearing a long jeans with wide bottoms. He's wearing. A allure looks like a white linen, button-down shirt tucked in with a big collar. He's got three buttons opened on top. Yeah pockets on the breasts. He looks like a clown like his clothing is so bad in this movie, but he wears it well. He's like six five and a handsome guy, but he's the it's. It's really really rough. Eighty style him and Eddie Murphy had a real knack for being able to wear absolute dog, Shit clothes and make them look really cool like Eddie Murphy the Muilenburg state, t shirt and beverly, hills cop and just a Hoodie. And then and then Chevy in this movie is essentially dressing. Of Venice Beach Junkie and looks great doing it. The, but then what later in the movie when he's wearing to matheson suit, you're like Oh. Yeah, you're cheese. You could be cary grant if you wanted to be like. He looks amazing in the soup, but most of the clothes he's wearing are just terrible with the rare exception of the Lakers uniform the pointed out bill. I have a mild. What's age the worst? That's a direct assault on Chris Ryan. What's you better? Not say three talking about W and here. Bill come on man. What's up with you? Listen, I love her. She brings back a lot of great memories. Amal and Dana Wheeler Nickerson as Gail Stanwick. Not a great actress, in Los Bri wife was watching the last hour with me, and at one point was like what's up with. This lady's acting. which to me is always a red. ALMAC I still Laker I'm glad I'm glad she's in the movie she brings. She brings back some fond memories I'm not I'm not really sure was exploring the studio space with the Gal. Stanwick characters my point. Gail Wick is the greatest hang of all time. Like she is just rolling with it. She is the absolute whatever you WANNA. Do let's hang out. Let's eat lobster. Thermidor is let's drink champagne at two o'clock in the afternoon. Give me tennis lessons. Let's go to a Lakers game. Teach me all about basketball absolute Alzheimer Hang. But you don't think we could've accomplished that same vibe with different actress. Seemed? Who seemed a little more surprised? When Fletcher's like Hey, but nobody is her husband someone else. Nobody is surprised in that movie like Tim Matheson doesn't blink when he's like I'm Ted nugent. Well I love her, so I'm fine with that, but I just I I do think it would have been interesting with An actress, who is a little more interested in really anything Sean. What do you think? you may recall from the tombstone podcast that I noted that she is a bad actress, and she's not good fletch, and if you just put Elizabeth Shue or Sharon stone in this movie, it's a thousand times better. Can't argue can't. It can't argue the point is you can't. A tense Rewatch ables I would say. Here's one of my. What's the worst is? We don't get enough time getting to know Sally Ann Cavanaugh. That's was apparently a smoke show, but we. Could have stuck in. Out One the low key funniest scenes when fletch goes up to the airline counter to check on the tickets to reconfirm his airline tickets, and she's like, and you bought another ticket and he's like Oh for Mr Signaling. Six like no cavenaugh and she's like Sally Ann Cavanaugh. You bought the ticket yourself as it doesn't mean I want her to sit next to me. Fruit scene, but I I really WANNA see. I wanted to have a gale stanwick sally. Ann Cavanaugh face off. Casting FS. Burt Reynolds Jeff, bridges Charles Grodin. Mick Jagger and Barry Bombastic were among those considered a play fletch. The author had rejection rights. He rejected Burt Reynolds and Mick Jagger. Said no thanks, not interested in those people play in my my guy. Fletch the original producer Jonathan Burrows. Get Ready Breakout imitation machine Chris. John Burroughs originally wanted. Richard Dreyfuss after Chevy Chase. Who is a cycle classmate? His manager is rejected the part. Gail I charged it to the UNDERHILL's Gail. would. Drive us but not work, Elvis. Bill. Where are you at on Bostick? Feel like he really had like the one of the worst possible outcomes on his career. The could have had. Key Got Barca corrected just over and over again by other white guys. The commodores. Guys corrected him it ten minutes. It was Barca Crack Damn who's getting market crafted by three other guys. Say, it's tough. He never got He never got that big one George. Segal Sean Guy at one point considered as fletch turned it down, he he might have been good in. Good Yeah. Yeah best that guy? Okay? The Joey Pants were. Richard Liberty Plays Frank the the newspaper editor I don't even know where that guy. That guy. Great characters. Great Character! Larry. FLASH JENKINS IS George went the The other guy gummy sort of drug addict. We're not really sure, but. That's Your Guy Seat now not really because he's season three of the White, shadow. With can see over my shoulder season three's win. The wheels came off so I look and Larry Jenkins as one of the symptoms like the same way. You know Chris looks at Tobias. Harris as the guy, the official sign the process got fucked up. Not, all that different, and then another that guy that guy who played who kind of looked Jim Varney, but it was Girardi right. That guy's got market corrected by Jim. Vardi, and then the other one is the guy who does fiscal on them is one of those guys Amit Wall. She's one of the all time. Great that guys yeah able character actors I, go him. There's some more Kenneth Mars. I feel like is on the list to he plays Stan Boyd. He's like he's been. He tons of movies in the seventies NPR bogdonovich movies, and he's tons of TV shows and murder. She wrote and Shit like that There were who else Chris or somebody a couple of. Gena. Davis go into that guy here now. Stop it okay, Allison La Plaza as the person. She's the woman working at the airline at the airline desk. I forgot to put Gena Davis and what stage the best, but she's coming up later. Is Joe Don Baker job on Baker? That's a big question. Yes, he is so to the three of us. He definitely is what percentage of the people listening to this podcast. Do you think could identify Joe Don? Baker, if they saw photo of men right down his name, I think if people are thirty five, and over they could they know it's Joe Don Baker he was. Was a real guy. Oh Yeah Walking Tom in yeah. Walking tall is was a kind of a borderline phenomenon. When I think it's a single digit percentage but I think that there are some people who could do it I mean his best thing was when he was in the mystery. Science Theater the movie that they did. He's a detective with the one kind of fat bloated. They're just making fun of all time. Now that US right. I don't think that's the name of the movie. I thought the guy had that he had like a one name. It's a movie named after the guys it's omits. That's what it's called Oh Mitchell I've never seen that, so if you go and Youtube. The mystery science I'd always never understood why they didn't do more modern movies. They do Mitchell, and it was my favorite one out of all of them. They just rank and showed up acre. Her like there's a running seeing. They're talking about out of breath is and it's really funny. Outlets give Richard Liberty any the that guy award, because he's just that guy from this movie. Vincent Hanna Gimme all you got. For best overacting. It's a two man race between Richard Liberty and Joe Don Baker. Karl with a K.. Right. Joe. I don't know what movie he's in, but it's not the movie that we're watching. He's yeah, he's playing. It is like a nineteen seventies exploitation movie, yeah! I don't know if they told him. It was a comedy and I. Don't know if he cared. But he thousand up. The Brandy Booth Award for best performance by pet the Doberman. Guard dog grabbed jobs through the window of up. Yeah, great job six out of ten Dan waiters. Gene. George went. The guy the guy the autopsy. Given the autopsy, he'd never get used to the smell. And I I gotta say. Dana Wheeler Nicholson is eligible that sank. She's GonNa get it, but she's only in four scenes. Is One of those nights when Dion is like three twenty seven. She's curry for Dana. I'm giving it to I'm giving it to Gina. 'cause I I find her to be just at the light in this movie Larry She's incredible and I don't understand why fledged ever kind of looked at Larrys. You're GONNA go Larry. You're going Larry. Over William Trailer is as Mr Underhill. That's pretty good. Yeah Mr Underhill does bring the heat. Yeah, that's good. She's as h Christ also I think chartered to the underhill's has become like a thing. People save for thirty years after this. Yeah, that's fine. Good call a recasting couch. Alright Air MUFFS, Chris. Is this a better movie if they just flip Gena Davis Dana Willard Nicholson. Yes. I think it is I'll do. RESPECT TO DWI N. I. Don't know what they were doing at the Gina Davis thing like she's adorable. She's clearly headed for bigger and better things. And she's just Kinda. To this bit part as like fletch lackey at the. Movie. Yeah. Was Dana, wilber Nicholson's like. Secular third movie. I don't know she's also. She's also perfect to play. She always played against really tall leading men. You know like opposite Goldblum in the fly. She's afraid opposite Chevy, she six Tall Gena Davis is huge. We've never really had the Gena Davis Conversation on the RE. watchable but I'm excited to have it and I don't even know what movie oh I guess. It would be league of their own yeah. Louise One of those two. I think illegal. Their own I think that's like her marshalling all of her incredible power. She's amazing in that. Yeah. She's really good. So recasting, catch out, flip them. That'd be my move. Your I stand. You know where I stand on. This Elizabeth Schuette Christie's. Nichols is Wheeler Nicholson like your mom or your mom's best friend or something. What's the? Email relationship or something I. It's not that is not the case. I think she's just a dynamite lady I I wish I had been of an age in the eighties where I could like data ladylike with Dana Wheeler Nicholson. She seems like an awesome hang. She is like she is of the Diane in school like she is just like out on the town hanging out. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go to Wolfgang. PUCK get a steak. Chris Beta good case of she roll with the punches in this movie in a really good way, so it's because she's not acting. HALF ASS Internet research. Allen Stan House. Is the same house. Used in. The Godfather with Jack Waltz finds. The horse said in his bed that. What a great I love that! Those are the only two movies. It said Fletch the Godfather. So so perfect Khartoum. Kind. WHO CAN AFFORD TO LOOK? Let me, tell you something my Kraut friend. an original run of movie posters shows fletch. It is various disguises. Including one is a hockey player Stubborn made the final cut were the Elliott Elliott kings were an in l. a. in the eighties were they? Oh, yeah. Oh Yeah. There's another fantasy moment that was cut where he pitches in the world series and Lasorda polls them from the game. The secrets are men, the movie, their existing production stills of flesh, and the pitcher boundless sorta come and take the ball away. That's why he says later. The movie Tommy lasorda hate that guy that was going to be one of my by my picking nits. Why he said that yes, because if he's such a huge La Sports Fan. What's his problem with Tommy Lasorda? Yet copy. Dodgers written. or You could argue he's so entrenched La that he knows the secret, which is time. LASORDA was an asshole. Maybe. That's us. Maybe maybe it's another level. San Isn't eighty five. The Insane Orel hershiser season. Then I was like eighty s eighty, seven or eight, right, nine, thousand, nine, hundred, nineteen and three, no eight was the Hor- eighty eight was hershiser, wasn't it? The Gibson Yer Gibson Orel hershiser and like basically nobody else. Apex about. So Chevy Chase is an interesting one because I almost feel like he's a double is he has two different apex is Right Center live clearly apex? He's one of the biggest stars in the world, but then it. Kinda rounds back in shape somewhere around here. I'm not sure it's this movie, but it's somewhere in the vicinity of here. I would say would be the new apex bound, but you could even say it's a year later at somewhere eighty, five eighty six, when he reclaims his a list movie stardom, he's it makes sense. He would host the Oscars of make sense. He would have a Fox TV show at some point. I'm going to say yes. Dana Dixon for Chris. Her Apex has been going for thirty five years. As one long sustained apex, yeah I think others would say it's this movie. Herald fall to Meyer, so he's got cop, and then this movie I think after this. The Sky's the limit for Harold. Quite literally with top gun. Yeah. So I would say here, this leads the top gun. Karima bar. Basketball Three Point Oh. Let's go break down, yeah! Well nineteen eighty-five. Wins the title against the Celtics. Wins a deciding game. Six in the Boston Garden becomes the first Laker team to beat the Celtics and does it on their floor. Winds finals MVP. In eighty five. Fourteen years after he won a nineteen seventy-one. He's just broken the scoring record, so he's the greatest score of all time. he is now being discussed as the best poor of all time. This is this is a year before Larry. Bird starts getting best poor of all time run, which then leads to magic, Johnson the late eighties, the Michael Jordan the early nineties, and then on and on where he just gets completely forgotten, I think he released giant steps his autobiography either year. Before this share, he started to become more humanized. He's in Flash. I'm saying yes. I think you could say this nineteen eighty because. I this year and this era is is baby as apex I don't think being in Fletcher's his apex. I was combining it with the eighty five finalists. Okay, their stuff. Okay, but the correct answer I think is nineteen eighty because the Lakers win the title that your magic and he's an airplane and airplanes, a giant movie, and he's still at the peak of his powers, still the best part of the week. So sure. Sixty, seven, sixty, eight, sixty nine national college player of the year they win the title all three years. He plays in college. That's not the absolute apex of Korean. Now. Greatest College basketball time in the conversation Nah. You could go seventy one bucks to when he's finally VP that. Year! Cream lot of apex is. Do you guys think that it's the Apex Mountain for Arnold J pants esquire. Chick hearn I think it might have been though wow. Is that as apex. He's at that point a true legend. The Lakers win the eighty-five title and he has a really important seat in Flach. When did it get better for chick hearn? When does he get the street named after him? Chikan Court Jaren court. Does that happen without fletch? No fletch pushed it over the top. I think you're right The fletch. Jersey. Becoming An actual thing that people were like when I was in college and stuff not quite an apex, but is something that happened I meant to fight that any other apex bounce few Venice Serie before Venice really falls apart. Venezuela would probably be white. Men can't jump exactly. That's what I was gonNA. Say My only other apex mountaineers cans of course. Really really great great beer-drinking by Chevy in this movie about. Newspapers. Apex Mountain for Investigative Reporting Yeah maybe. Picking nits. This one's bother me thirty five years. Why was Gail Stanwick so bad at tennis? Like what did did she have some sort of muscle disorder? What's? Somebody not hit a tennis ball forward the worst tennis anyone's ever played like I could put my two year old kid out there. They would have connected with more forehands. The Gal stayed wicked weather maker that bad. That was just Dwi n improvising that she can be bad everything you know. She really wanted to show that she wasn't just bad at acting that. She was bad at all aspects of life. I don't think tennis. Was that widely practiced by people back then that's it yeah I. Think tennis was like terrible take. No tennis is like you actually. Be like a rich kid to play tennis now as a member of. Yes! She's in Tennis Club. She may be swimming hanging out the UNDERHILL's. Chop it up about local politics? Also also, what club had like Cabanas like that? That Cabana was like a two million dollar house. California, Racquet Club I, not like that that was really impressive I, either if that still exists a I'll step on the egg there, but I don't know that was a really nice one and then Mrs Stanwick. Seeming completely unfazed when Fletch told her everything. any other picking nits Augusta. Now, is mostly the DOT. The dodgers thing that anybody obsessed with the Lakers like that wouldn't be punching. Pictures of Tommy, lasorda especially glass glass framed pictures. I take some issues with with Alan Stan wicks plan. I wouldn't say it's exactly bulletproof. Even even despite not having DNA evidence from burning flushes body. It's still. Pretty extravagant story there I. DON'T I'm not sure that he's GonNa. Pull that one off. He seems like not a bright bright guy. Yeah, he has a plane like he presumably could get to Brazil on his own. He doesn't need to go through this whole. My dead body thing. Yes, it, you WanNa know how somebody has a second marriage that's covered extensively in the La Times with big photo on the cover in the mid eighties without somebody else kind of picking that one up. Like Wang alert at all Noga weird? could this be remained as a ten episode Netflix show, please no. Probably unanswerable questions. This one is a real one that I actually struggled with over the years of my column. What is the correct spelling of John Cocteau stone? It's actually cock tolstoy. Yeah like Leo Tolstoy both Cock in the beginning I thought he said Cocteau, stone, it sounds like he's Cocteau Zain but yeah apparently Gordon imdb Cock tolstoy. Unit Trust IMDB Rio nears. Think he says Cocteau Stone Yes. Now you'd never make it as an investigative reporter I. I'm going Ko K- Te'o ass. Te'o end. Did you say K. O.. S. K., O. K., T., O., S., T. O. N.. I'm fascinated with the see. It's definitely with the see I. think the cake because it throws you off a little bit I think we're finding out that we're all three of his dyslexic while trying to discuss a fake chevy, chase, name and fletch. Next question. Did you think fletch actually retired from the time at the end this movie? Will we know the FLETCH lives right now? That leads us to our next question did much to happen 'cause I like to live my life at like it didn't happen. It was hugely immensely disappointing. Movie Experience, and I've never seen it since I. Think I've seen it twice, maybe maybe one. It's Okay I. I'm not a big fan I feel like the one of the only guys who makes it from flesh to flesh lives as Mr, underhill, he's one of the only actors whose Name Yeah Yeah. Remember being let down over and over again in the late eighties with sequels for eight hours to godfather three which we did on this one. fletch lives. It was just like over and over shack to. CADDYSHACK to do like Chevy and caddyshack to though I feel like that move. He's really funny in that. And then Beverly Hills cop three, which was a little later at the thousand ninety three range that was so disappointing in such a weird movie. A I can't believe like Eddie was not like washed up by any means at that point. It's weird that that was the movie. They son into who won the movie Chevy Chase's unanimously answer no question. Yeah and Dana Wheel and ECKERSON second. I? Wish they had fucked up the sequel. It feels like this character could have. If there's a flaw in this movie it's. It's that there's some seat by the pants. Kinda stuff that they were clearly kind of doing on the FI. That if they had structured a little better and bigger cameos and bigger people in it. I think there's a better version of this movie that comes next. Maybe, not as funny, maybe not as beloved but I do think they could have blown out the same like a really good example. Is Beverly Hills Cop Two? Which is better than beverly? Hills cop one. They needed to make like six of these if they were gonNA. Make more than one. A detective series where the Pink Panther should be pink panther. Right am I crazy to think that right? Honestly like nobody cared about like narrative coherence like it could have come back three or four years later, and he could have just been like he's doing another case, we we don't care about what happened to Gail or whether or not like one case leads to another. It's just like just give them. It's Fletch in the case of the blank blank, and it would have been great I agree with. That figure in this out as a series and then val, kilmer. Just not get enough traction with the Saint I think are the two biggest movie tragedies of the twentieth century. Your love for the saint is in top six weirdest re watchable thing. Which squadron isn't it? It's not weird. You just haven't seen in a while. Okay, it's a good movie. The music incredible. It's very well done, and it just came out at the wrong time. Listen! I like Val Kilmer, the most of anyone on this. It's fine. That's fine. I'll support vow wherever I'll I'll go to the island of Dr Moreau with them. I'll go I'll I'll do the saint within whatever you guys when he's blind when he's a black guy with Mira, Sorvino, a man, I hope I hope he figures it out. You guys, you guys are conditional. Val. It's fine. Here's the power rankings of P How strongly people feel about the same okay number one obviously Val kilmer? He cares the most number two bill, Simmons number three, the nine guys who worked paramount pictures. Fire the same out. That's the whole list nobody else cares. People did care did pretty well a great soundtrack? Keep saying who was on Sunday. Okubo disguises. Skies that's learning based on this movie and Saint Wait. Did it really bomb. No, it did well. Y- see, you're you're now? You're just slandering the saint first of all your guy. Phillip Noyce directed it. Yeah, that's okay. He's good. Oh here's astles. Budget seventy million. It made one hundred sixty nine point four million. More than doubled its budget if you had to choose. From the two greatest Phillip Noyce films of all time you'd have to choose between the Saint and sliver where you're going. You're not going to go dead. Calm. Sliver is bed. A clear and present dangerous, pretty good, too. Let's go clear and present danger on on this podcast. Dow kilmer earned a golden raspberry were domination for worst actor. That is such bullshit fucked. Keep believe that. Wow you bad check. Six underground by the sneaker pimps. Orbital Moby Fluke lucious Jackson, the chemical brothers and I've never heard you talk about the apple music in any other context. It's time ever liked. It was a two month stretch. As well as part podcast series ELECTRONICA. Hosted by Bill, Simmons Yeah Solo pod. Errors you on ecstasy talking about the. Music was a thing for eight months. The next. And then ended abruptly. With backlash, everyone just kind of moved on that was. It lives on with Val kilmer in the Saint. The saint died. What are you talking over? The moment is over. Doesn't it shouldn't be over it's it's bad that the It's bad that it's over I really. Wait a second. Yeah, you use you saying six underground. Why hasn't Ryan Reynolds made fletch? I now I thought when you were saying. Ryan Gosling Ryan Reynolds will pop to mind because he is. He really is the guy who stole the Chevy. Chase playbook deadpool. Yeah Yeah for sure. Bills just thinking about Val kilmer. Yeah, do you think Jason? Lee would have been a good Fletcher I I don't know if he would have. But at that time I was all in on Kevin Smith, and I was following that news very closely like a nerd, reading and cool news online, and getting excited about the prospect of it, and I thought jeeze Jason Lee was one of the last guy who did that. archetype that we're talking about or like. He was actually at his best when he was pure astle when he was just a completely smarmy dude and I definitely would have watched it. I would have been interested. There's one other guy would imagine what this is Vince Vaughn. So. It's. Kind of the area. It's a little different. It's his own spin on. It's a little more parish, also tall guy. Yeah, motormouth, but Vince Vaughn has flash I. think could have made it. Nobody signed up for that Vince Vaughn and in the Saint I think also really well. Do, you think they should have passed this like how Batman? Different people became Batman. Maybe that's how name that would have been the solution for different people in the lead role. I honestly feel like I'm on a Nathan for you episode. Right now. How `bout this I'll watch the saint. And we'll decide whether it was good or not. Why don't we all we watch it what up? What happens if Chris and I both don't think it's good, but you do does do we get hot gas with you? Shots Sean the HBO Max App Likes Sifted through like Blob. Oh, it's back. Just it like nine hundred fifty, three of the HBO Bax up I to be the one guy who watches all the nineteen fifty three. Max Offerings better that than furiously beating it to Dana. Chris you know. Why am I? Catching strays is the one making fun of. Federal you're. Right it was a raucous episode. Enjoy Flash. It's available nowhere. You have to rent it on Amazon or or Apple but we enjoyed it for Chris Rightish fantasy We'll see next.

Chevy Chevy Chase Chevy Chase Chris fletch Times Tim Matheson Goldie Hawn Lakers Craig Craig basketball Johnny Carson cocaine Chris Ted Nugent producer Bill Murray Chris Yeah Sean Mr Fletch Bill
Slate Money: Succession, S2E8, L to the OG

Slate's Culture Gabfest

53:06 min | 11 months ago

Slate Money: Succession, S2E8, L to the OG

"The following podcast contains explicit language before we get into this episode. We have a big favor to ask of advertises is conducting a survey and we would be very grateful for your help with answering questions it will take less than ten minutes of your time and your participation helps her show so go to sleep study dot. Com to took complete the short survey now thank you hello and welcome back to the slate money succession recap podcast after last week's seeks dark and gloomy edition. We really hit a comedic stride this week. I'm feeling salmon of axios. I'm joined by Emily Peck of Huffpost. I am joined by Gabriel of slate. Hello and this is the episode I've really been waiting for because this is the episode where we Ed joined by Sarah Allison of the Washington Post who knows everything about everything but specifically about media indeed and in fact you wrote an the entire book about Rupert Murdoch Buying Washington Post. We'll see general main basically rose an entire book about about the last Logan boy buying yeah. I did buying the PSE and I'm so happy to be here. I feel like this is my true. Calling this is your. I feel like we like this is. It's quite sad there are no. PS is in this episode. It's true the ghosts are there and Kendall what happened to Naomi. He's got this whole new lady so let's without thinking of missing. Pierson yeah he was he was all up in the whole Naomi. PS Name and then and then she went on to regents park to go feed the ducks next thing you know he's he's getting into some actress. Jennifer from the sand Jennifer psycho-sexual but I mean she's just going to be a blip obvious. No she's John around the next on the next plane but the line about Jennifer came from Logan where he goes up to shave and he says seen candles latest mind like a balloon so I'm I mean we may as well start uh emily. Do you have a theory on like. Is this like symptomatic of Kendall falling apart and totally not having it together. Oh I think this episode was really interesting for Kendall because he's quite cheerful and almost like an a manic yeah because lost episode was clearly very depressive and now this big swing suddenly he's grinning what he's when he smiles on drugs when he smiles Elsa Kana and he's like I'm so happy. It's a genuine smile. He's genuinely hey. It hasn't worn off right like that was essentially redefining. Fuck Channel burnt all right. So what are we going to do here. I feel like the island put in the giant island size bed and in just into Dundee you come to Dundee. Let me play. I mean it's like two nights off. It's not Arthur Miller Ryan kind of own a movie studio. Where's Dundy. How about you look it up on your phone on the way to the airfield subsiding your driver and I'm getting overtime. I mean there's a line. He says near the beginning. Oh to connor he says I'm drowning in Pussy and everything's Golden. It makes you think he may a not be on the drugs anymore. He may have be may be giving sex addiction a try yeah yup well that could be. I just sort of thought like Oh. This is why a he shouldn't go off drugs because this is what he feels like when he's doing drugs and this is probably a really good place for him and then you see the sort of deflated shell of a human he's become when his father doesn't like that his new girlfriend has said awesome twice in the course of one conversation and then it's all over for him yeah and it was very funny of of how the girlfriend. Jennifer calls him out when they're walking down the hallway and there's all this like pieces from you know. Logan's history and she's like you talk about your dad a lot and it was just like very deflating. I think to him it was like a little puncture in his little balloon of unreality basically because that's what he's doing is just like hiding from what what he's done which is manslaughter. I like to mention it ever episode yeah. I think it's it's in the back of his mind all the time. Maybe like when he's having sex. I mean who knows I mean this. This is not the broken robot of episode one. He was very broken lost episode when his dad forced into go into the House House the guy that he killed and then like yeah he's just massively overcompensating and he doesn't really understand what he's doing but he also which has to to be a part of it gets to stick the knife a little bit into connor by snatching away the actress from Khanna's Goffin's play just just went in when when she leaves fans wonderful out will be really meters girlfriends. Kendall goes up to to to earn goes that was you were a playwright. They no one can no one can think of a single good good thing to say about the play their even like what little maggots in ways that are fighting. Maybe my favorite character. Oh my my gosh now I get it so when he's complaining done the midges biting his San might by you know the sand in Sans creatures living in indeed thriving and and he's itching Greg was he complained about him last episode but he was really back in it this time especially with his grandfather disinherited Greg's going to inherit a quarter of a billion dollars or is he or or is he choose between the Hell is in waste our Waco stock which is apparently going zero because U N an Roy is battling deal right wait. You all think that he's backing the weasel situations okay so let's let's talk a little bit about what pizza deal did to. Gorka because this is lily what the subtext of this entire episode is all about. Okay Okay Sarah. No you go ahead. You have a good handle on it because I hadn't even thought of that until he walked in here but the Peter Thiel Gawker situation was just that the billionaire Peter Thiel was funding funding Hulk Hogan's lawsuit so what happened is. I need to jump in here because it was yeah. It was secret like this. One is clearly less secret. I think you and is not trying to keep it secret well we if we were at Silicon Valley Party with Peter till we would feel like it wasn't secret but we have the benefit in this situation -Tuation of being inside the hearty be so sure it's you and just because he made that crap about cruises because he made the crack about cruises at the end and I right because I was thinking maybe the final line it did seem like Stuey that was my first thought who's funding this okay but then when he comes in at the very end yeah the final line yes he says it's hard to know which is more toxic your news outlet or your Cruise Division. This is your fault this this empire of Shit time to pay up yeah you're right that was. I did this to you and and you need to read that in the light of what Jerry had said which is basically we've through twenty million dollars this weasel and he didn't blink one someone is funding him and and and cities like we'll open the phonebook play of any number of people who would want to bring logan down but it. I think that that was just you and basically coming out and telling Logan. I'm doing this. I think he thought the Logan knew about it but Logan's only going to find out about it tomorrow but in any case the the story the very quickly the Hulk Hogan story is the Hulk Hogan sued Gorka because they published a tape of him having sex and and wasn't a particularly likely lawsuit to win the legal standing and Gorka tried to settle with him and offered him a bunch of relatively generous settlements which given the likelihood of him winning any normal lawyer an any normal plaintiff would automatically take that and he kept on saying no and he kept on jurisdiction shopping he kept spending more and more money on lawyers and everyone on the goal could side of things like this doesn't doesn't make any sense. He's behaving incredibly irrationally especially when he would drop cases that were ensured just to make sure that like if they paid it would have to hurt them and this is exactly what they're referencing here in. This episode is that the weasel is is not behaving rationally the rational national thing to do beat the take the twenty million dollars what he's doing. He's trying to bring down the company. This is it goes back to a piece that I remember you wrote about Peter Thiel at the time where you said the PTO has not just brought down Gawker. He's invented a mechanism by which you can bring down any media operation you. If you have enough money you can now bankroll enough. Lawsuits suits refused to settle that you can now destroy any media company if you're a millionaire and that's what's happening in the show the UN's money comes from his brother and comes from the company Way Star Areco. Am I mistaken. He might well so he's all into treasury bills a little bit. I'd like to know what your theory theory is on. How Greg how his ultimatum to Greg fits into this situation was wide the site company. Is that what it is. He wants to protect him through say you're either with me or your with. Logan and if you're working more than you're you're not you're not me anymore. And what do we make of brother. UN crossing the birds out of Little Logan's notebook is that just the this is where all this started is because because Logan just wanted to bird watch. She just wanted to find the thrashes wasn't he was lying. If you've already messing with the reality of how many birds you you WanNa get to the truth is the purest don't write down the bird unless you genuinely saw that bed and this is all coming to into ruse now fifty. I have a question though which is how did you even get to Dundee garment. Is he like Greta. Don't don't you remember season one that he winds up like the Greg. Him Allies Right. Ryan and Greg trusted talk to him and he's like shut up. Don't talk to me. I'm greg is desperately trying to him because Greg knows that like he needs to get in with his grandfather fees. GonNa wind up inheriting any of its money and you having none of it and now you and it's like. Oh yeah you'll you'll. You'll you stand to inherit two hundred and fifty million Wolde because Greg. I mean the whole the whole story arc of Greg for the vast you know one and three quarter seasons is that he doesn't have any money and now he's like wait. I have two hundred and fifty million dollars coming to me like the minute you cock it yet. It seems like Greg is reluctant to quit this. I will listen to the whole show is like attraction and revulsion in the same time all around Logan and so you see this what I loved about this episode is that we all knew that it was true for all the Children Aldrin and the executives but now you see Raya being drawn into it and being humiliated in exactly the same way that anyone who comes into his orbit is humiliated basically after five minutes of being in his presence. I'm getting close to him and so I think that the Greg thing did he would even hesitate that he wouldn't even just be like okay two hundred and fifty million dollars to get away. I mean he's already made crimes. He's already going to live it quits in the bathroom. He goes up to look in the bathrooms. It's been a pleasure doing business with you but I I now. I have to take my leave. That was a good land and Logan can't let him do it not because he loves. Greg so much greg valuable employees but because if greg quits in order to go with uncle you and then lowest lost a point in the battle but also greg is genuinely conflicted and the reason is financial. He has that like swanky office now. He has has a nice six figure salary. He is comfortable in a way that you know when we first meet him in season one. He's like throwing up inside of a zoo do a now for the first time in his life. He feels like he's got his foot on the wrong of Latin. He knows on some level the he doesn't deserve that and so he knows if he quits he's going to have to find an actual job somewhere else and there's no actual right but it has to be less than I mean. It's not just financial because he's also he's also destruct. He's also destroyed evidence and and he knows I mean he gives himself this whole pep talk in terms last season about going to prison and being. I mean he's really deep in this and you would think that I I mean I. I think there's more working in his mind than just the paycheck I think at some point at some point he winds up teaming up with UN and the weasel and coming out and fighting on you know the white hat side against the Evil Logan Roy Empire. That's that's kind of inevitable right. He he becomes light. Logan's enemy and and and giving evidence against Logan slate money is sponsored by the Journal which is a new daily podcast from Gimblett and the Wall Street Journal. If you lake sleep money you might like this one. It illustrates how businesses drive the headlines. The host host Ryan and Kate Linebaugh and they look at where the three college would be better for everyone. Whether a recession is coming what we should do when the recession does this come. What happens to a city win. The minimum wage goes about fifteen dollars. Journal follows the money to understand how people across America gain access to power uh-huh and how they wielded once they've got it. Listen for free on spotify or wherever you get your podcast and I feel like in terms of the attraction and repulsion we saw Logan do this in the bathroom where he says he says to Greg. I really like you you know and there's something really like they love deductive. It's seductive exactly and we see Raya doing it to an Roman right. you know I had exactly likely were lower and it would she also says she also says it to to Rome to Roman and it absolutely works at neutralizes. The brothers shift can't get them to do anything in this episode and it works. I E Bogan. She gets Kendall to pull that rose all she can achieve as like some some low level like hazing but you can't. She can't these they're so toxic and they don't know how to love each other and they cannot even team up like she's. Ah Why would I love about the way that the this is all unfolding that they aren't beating you over the head with the fact that the kids are so easily played but they are so all easily played tiny little bone of affection from from pretty much anyone and they are all in so you know obviously the fact that Ray can even just throw these minor they know that she's a snake and that she's manipulated ship and she's already screwed her so the fact that they both are kind of like well why she so bad in the end you know and it's a little it's actually not that subtle but it feels to me like they let it play out in a way that is very satisfying because you realize that these kids are just so desperate spied for attention and please do it. I I'm going to take the other side of this. which is that what we saw here was like it was kind of the AVENGERS VENGEANCE VS? Thanos kind of thing that we everyone started attacking rare in a different way and each of the attacks like didn't didn't mortally wound her but in aggregate she was very alone and had no real support and Masha comes it might have candle does the you know he catta toast like shave obviously does like really cutting the other thing about oh. She doesn't drink and all of this actually works. This is my theory all of this actually works six in terms of persuading Logan. He's he should not trust to or appoint her is CEO and he sitting down at dinner with with shift and he goes. It's Hugh and shift like feels that it's going to be her and then Jerry calls. We're all fucked committee. What did she call it. What the fuck are we GONNA do. Committee the fuck you gonNA. Do Committee and Jerry does this thing and there's a little bit of a macguffin and Jerry. Does this thing where she says whoever the next. CEO is is going to get a huge amount of phase and it's GonNa wind up like basically being set up to fail and shave. I can take this job. I can be the next year we have weakened read to the point at which I which Logan will appoint means that have rare the I don't want to because I know what's happening. Red Doesn't know about this. You know the weasel so I'm going to just whisper in my father's. It is is say oh you know. It's let him appoint rare. Let laya walk into the Shit Storm. Let rare take all of the blame and then shift can come in post post shit storm if there's anything left. That's my question first of all. Is it so bad. Raya has nothing to do with what has happened at the company in the past so yes she'll become CEO and have to face a shit storm but she's not personally responsible for any of the shit storm so really is so that was why I called a little bit of a macguffin like but I mean I think once you enter into the I mean she's going to compromise herself. She's like yeah. This is what it is like. Once you get inside you've got you've probably already you know sold your soul in a million different ways so I don't think it's going to matter that she personally wasn't there learn but one of my favorite moments was when Logan is sitting there was ship and he sort of his trashing Raya and he says her you get. Did you get your fucking get it yeah. He's like she's blue and just like I am to you. fucking get it you fucking get it and it was like that's the most real affection and that. I've seen in the entire show. She's got my contacts. Every everyone is collided noticing. Yeah she's blue. She's liberal. My haven't yet but you and did you get it to me. She told me she drank. I showed skill with prick tees. Oh we don't use that any sort of usual. fucking wives have gone that way. I'm worried more is it. I got it right. 'cause you're smart smart and yet in fact what he's saying what he's talking about when he says you fucking yet. You're a liberal but you fucking get it yeah. He's referring to all the time she's humored him. Yes he's referring to all the time. It's racist and she's been like. Oh Okay Dad right because then they have this conversation like you can't you can't exactly which which she gets us she. She gets because she gets him. He's willing to kind of twist herself into whatever and you're right there. That's genuine affection in contrast and we have to go to the ridiculous over the top fake Oh affection of Kendall's rap to his dad and l. to the OJ itching. Let's do we believe that that Kendall would do this. Total direct reference Prince of course to James Murdoch's early career 'cause records. Where was I mean. This is James Back when he had was still at Harvard and and started a record label with friends of his that was a Kinda hit pop label and it was his own little rebellion about how he was going. GonNa have an earring in a tattoo and be his own little person and then of course it lasted for maybe five minutes and his father brought the company so I I mean that was just so satisfying to watch this entire I could. I almost couldn't watch it. It was so embarrassing and such a uncomfortable moment but it was I mean there was it was even more of a direct reference than the Hulk Hogan thing. It was like that James did that. He started his own. I don't think he actually wrapped at the foreign literally. Would we know about it like might have wrapped at some. Maybe I want to do is I'm going to have to go back to the tapes and see whether James medoc wraps when he was. I wish someone would leak that to us. Please email. It's late in in the early nineties. SEND THEM TO SLEEP MONEY AT SLATE DOT com. My boy squiggle cooked up beat for me. Check get on the door of the of the years drawing now he's rolling in a Roddam may regulate loops thought star general y'all the job and wwl I read his burning my eyes but I cannot look away aw Dude G. and you play and play up throw the be g and he that was just a wonderful scene. I mean speaking of candle being in like high and manic and just like I don't WanNa say back on his game but sort of recovered from his Malays right I mean he was just he was really happy. UPI An into it wasn't he he's because it was all in service of his father out that in that sort of shadow and he's obviously got nothing. I mean his whole the just the contrast between the Latte. He's back on his game but he's he. It's a bad game to use to. WHO's on that Game Marcia Marcia Marcia you know I'm obsessed with Russia right like I am the big. The big like breakout star successions into is clearly jerry that for me. It's always been Masha and for me. I'm I'm so wait for next into what Marcia like managed to pull like that wonderful thing where she pulls verified and have you been the safety testing to see this right justly. She has no idea what damage what was the quote she said about. I win and I have have fought and I have lost and I have fought and won but when I lose the other one will generally lose an eye who's an eye right and then and then you go get it. Oh it was so excited. She has yeah so she I mean. She still is losing right now right. I mean she's board. Wait wait. I don't know I feel like so far. I'm not impressed by anything was so I feel like next week or in the future episodes. If she's really walked out we get to see what marshes Oh. She's actually been doing apart when Marshall's gone but also my share was one hundred percent down with ships assassination attempt on rare so there's that wonderful line where they're talking to each other and Shiva's like you allowed Marsha to Organiz the party and Masha just looks at her and says layer thought it would be nice. It was like she knows. Mush knows better than anyone. The the one thing that Logan hates more than anything else is rights party and Marsha just lead threadbare walk straight into that you know because his she wants to see rare implode and between the surprise party which Logan hates and you know one of my favorite had seen when they say surprise and you just turn that so much and marches when you talked him into going back by the way for more right can can we have here. We go if she wants to. Throw him a big surprise party. Who Am I to spoil it. Yeah that's good while we're just is talking about favorite characters and Marsha the Jerry and Roman situation on my golden the declaration uniform for marriage proposal the marriage proposal and the variety of ways that he does explain what they're going to do what he means by marrying right you eat me and I you like they do in Germany. What happens in Germany Helix. I mean Germany. I I also cannibalism uh-huh Oh and one more thing real quick. Should we get married. What about that like an an equivalent of the thing like I have duct you foresee to live with me. That's not equivalent then you kill me. You Chop my dick off. You know something I'm kidding but you know what I'm saying. You eat me you like they do. In Germany. Anyway thought to think about that is one of my favorite I wouldn't even call it. A side imploded so like the soul of the whole thing is going to okay another thing. We learn feel like we learned a lot about Logan this episode another thing possibly that Jerry was once his his. Thank you one thing he was the new thing and Roman is only slightly troubled by that. Yeah ups her appeal. You think he ever boned Jerry. He's delighted by love the idea the Roman Roman is clearly you know the only thing that he actually sexually attracted to is the worst thing you know the most humiliating most disgusting thing unhinged and if I wind up with my dad spoke a second that's like even more disgusting and makes it even more sexually appealing to them. Yes he cherishes the depravity. That's correct. That's it. I also want to know who Sally Ann is and why Logan bought her a harp. What is going on there. They keep right so that come up more than like that was a good good catch and I guess up. Could we talk about shift Comeback Episode Right. This was the first I smart successful play that she had made in all of season two. I feel like the master arc of season two is in season. Chivas set up as like the competent person has gotten out of the family emily and his now having a proper career as a person who can actually do stuff and at the beginning of season two by SORTA tapping her on the shoulder and saying it's you all of that crumbles and Logan and just brings her in and all of a sudden she's incompetent and flailing and fucking up all the time and that's what she's been doing right up until the end when she makes this play by getting rare handing rather the poison chalice and we'll see if that turns out to be a smart play or not but it's the first not flailing thing that she's done and one thing I thought was interesting was how she was dressed. In this episode from the time she's promised the job she starts wearing the full turtlenecks in the suits and all this but in this episode where she's trying to mount her comeback we see a lot more of shift skin like she wears turtlenecks dresses in two different scenes but they're bacchus right and we see she's just not as buttoned up anymore. She it's like they've the dress her to be more free and she has the back great line when she goes. I don't want to put a damper on Raya celebrations or anything but it's time we killed her day in her skull in with Iraq and you're like okay yeah and like you don't want to go up against shift wanting to smash your skull in with her because she house Rox but I do think that the whole I mean what brings all of them down is proximity to Logan so this is shifts fund period because she's pushing Raya into the sun and then we'll see what happens when she actually I mean I don't I think I actually feel like it's sort of nothing personal with Logan Roy but once you get sucked in you then become tainted and he abuses you and it's only a matter of time before your humiliated four on the floor cast aside bore on the floor. I mean that reference. Was You know Ms Good to remind everyone threat what happens is there anything to be said about. Marsha and like Rupert Murdoch's various wives and any references all logan references all his wife was yeah I mean I think that the it'll depend on what Marcia ends up eventually doing but if Marcia is a sort of Wendi Murdoch of of this show which it seems like that's who she would be. She was his third second third third. When he was his third. She'll become abusive and eventually really I mean we're being really literal than her. Sons will establish and create a dossier on all the things that she's done. She'll have an affair with various world leaders. Maybe somehow by and will eventually be cast out who's James in lockdowns. Mom Anna Mandatory as the I mean I I yeah so the the connor character is actually the oldest daughter who is in some ways prudence thank you prue and then Anna Has Lachlan James and Liz and then Wendy has grace and chloe and then obviously Jerry not. There's no more children Jerry Hall. Jerry Hall has not right. It's a little brady bunch. ah but this is interesting subplot of like Kana running out of money where you have Roman buying a football team on a whim you have have Kendall the wrong lives Kendall Kendall sending jets and clearly not having any money worries in Kana who you know we remember his massive pad in New Mexico and he brought out like an entire hotel and that's suddenly seems we've woken up without any money he like. I know that Broadway productions can be expensive but like something well. He's also running a presidential campaign right. He's on two fronts. He's bankrolling a Broadway play. It's going to be a complete failure and he's running a presidential campaign those consultants in his living room right another great mom was when they're at Logan Roy's childhood home and Connor says I mean I would totally live her. I wouldn't put somebody could it's like they. They don't know I mean they would never for people to actually stomach kind of regular middle class also re connor the first Pancake Pancake Hickory line apparently apparently his mother was sent to an asylum or something. Did you catch the real world parallels there too yeah and they said something just like four connors. Mom Mom yeah I I then McConnell. Khanna's definitely a weird line we plot with when he when he comes out with that line about sometimes. I think he'll never truly understand that until I shit outside what yeah that was a running theme and throughout the episode did Logan. Actually should outsiders just myth his sort of went in his line. I mean I don't know how to make his Logan's discussion. And what did he say that the future is real but the past is all made up. I love that and his Rosebud was you know whatever whatever whatever the fuck it took to get me out of here his sister that he somehow feels responsible for her an and why you and that she said that actually that wasn't your the full right what's wonderful about the show is like I heard the set on someone else's podcast so ripping someone else but they don't really fill in the blanks. You know there's no a flash cheesy flashbacks to tell you exactly what happened to Logan in his child's. We just have all these little delectable clues about dead sister about a mother dying when he's four years sold about how they left Dundee but we don't know what the circumstances were. What happened we. We really don't know anything but it's so fun to get the little clues. Almost makes makes you want to fill in a back story. You know we got a lot of good clues in this one all the Scotland stuff and the girl who didn't even play the harp. It could be slate. 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IEP DOT com slash sleet money okay emily. What's your favorite line. there's so many do the insult who writes the insult. I do WanNa we know that anyway this is Roman to Raya when he's admiring her and he says you're kind of like a peppy fun gun set to milk with like a lean and woman he branding thing that works well with the Fitbit Moron whatever people on Again Fun Gun God tacitus just all killer no filler with Ah Greg's complete inability to make conversation with anyone like that that yeah. I mean even Tom. Way that bizarre like not quite sexual relationship and you'll say oh can. I just mentioned about Tom this this. There's one really jumped out at me for the with this is the first time in succession like seasons one and two where homewares and not authorship suit remember how like that whole dinner party where they were mailing looking like a mid western briefcase and a night. Italy Dundee and it's like well fitting comfortable like good expensive looking like who wait times looking good all of a sudden the Tom home fashion choices shit and also he pins shift down when he sees her with the actor and he makes her uncomfortable coming coming up. I was so impressed with Shiva in that moment because she could have handled the whole. She made it so obvious yes she could've. I just played that so much better it was because you had an entire affair that she was able to yes she had that high and quite the end until her wet airy but but otherwise right yeah but still. I thought she could have done a lot better. I agree and also Tom. Defending Raya. was I thought unusual because usually they're such a team the two of them Tom and shift of but he says to her like maybe it's good for me well. He's always been. It's not gonNA be Kinda. It's obvious and I can be good for him. He is he did was taken aback back when she was when. Logan said she was going to be the next one. He's like Oh. I thought that I thought we were in it for me so I think he's always I mean. I think like all all of them. He's not really concerned about anybody else. It's not really true love with chef. I don't think so I can't quite shoes. I really love love when Roman refers when Kendall starts. It's Reverend Reverend Ken W is but I think I think the one that that really stuck with me was logan just looking with a look of sheer disdain his son and going. Maybe a fucking right how word I know what team I supported all my fucking life. Maybe I support kill monitor right. He got the distaste dripping and we're just like okay. I I guess he's not going to bail them out. Who knows man in the The candle wrap which I've watched several times now they record on the action shots to the flash to him a lot. Mike what is this what is in the rest of the board the rest of the out of executives who don't mute when they're supposed to do. Oh g UH AH. We're not playing along at all now that was I mean. It's it's it was maybe the most humiliating moment of the whole all series. I think maybe even more than on the floor because it was not as overt because he was willingly you've broken. This man is that he's willingly willingly getting up in front of everyone. He knows just horrible. Yeah I agree. I agree I mean he. He did shit his bed. Also so this season like it's just been one humiliation after the next yeah. Maybe that is more. You mentioned the humiliation of being dragged into the house. If the kid who you killed I mean like yeah well. That wasn't humiliating. It was torture psychological punishment and torture but rightly rightly so I mean it wasn't like Oh. We're going to be so mean to you because you're GONNA have to face the fact that you killed someone. That seems appropriate. Actually it's appropriate in that. He's coming face to face with the consequences consequences of his actions but Logan was doing it in revenge for Kendall challenging him on rarest in revenge for Kendall Daring to date NAM. Yes for all of us stay. It's not like moral and I think it's important for you to understand what the processes of your action right now. He's doing. Don't fucking tell me I can't sleep with this exactly right this sleeping with each other. I mean Logan Ran Kaiser a prick tees but I guess he just meant that about the drinking drinking but Burundi they're not sleep. That's what I thought yeah. That's what I wasn't sure why was saying practice but when he has sued sleep over and she says oh I wasn't expecting that. Aren't we assuming that that's already happening going out to dinner with her four times a week. I mean this is. I mean it's accession. No one has sex so we don't know it is true handle in in yeah except the Kendall and thank God to see that Oh yeah no one wants to see Kendall having sex literally. No one would rather see him wrapping. Yeah this is what was your favorite lane. I had so many I think a two phased snowflake with commoner address I uh-huh from shift to Raya I thought that was quite good and the only the other one was look at you fitting right in like a camp counselor and my but when I was twelve well that was good so I think that he really Roman really has a good. Somebody's writing good stuff for him. This is the the energy. DNA man no one no one on television rights. You know those kind of lines if you took the insults out of the show. Would there be a show. I don't think so no there's most redeeming thing that they know how to do is really come up. It's brilliant. It's like bringing in her into the family million at her but now you're one of US comic insults out. Would it be billions and you. You can tell the way that you can tell the rare is not part of the family is that she doesn't have her insult game on yes. She doesn't do insult fallen. She's also asking people genuine questions about how he's going to flatter her way into the fancy whereas the family insults the way she's adapted tapped into the pierces. She made her whole career working her way into one family that has this kind of waspy niceness aesthetic and now she's in a very different kind of family business and she doesn't quite know how to handle it. I can't wait to see what happens when it all falls apart. When the cruise thing comes out in the weasel start scam I think she's going to be forced to do something so jerry is the new face is going to get ripped to shreds so is that what happens in the next episode the the weasel comes mm south on national TV and the new face you to take yeah I mean she's she can't. She's not going to distance herself. We got four more episodes this season right right. I think by the end of the episode ten by two more episodes from now Raya will begun and and we will have reset to like who in the family is GonNa. Take the reins next right. That's where they are going to land. At the the end of every season so ray has two more episodes to go my prediction. I don't think that she can be long for this world and I mean how long can you book Holly Hunter Center for this is a good that's another. That's probably the key. Hbo They can afford it from but I think that she I mean if she is the rich the Nino. Oh character which you have to say that she is so the whole. Pierce family is based on the Bancroft family who owned Dow Jones which the Wall Street Journal which is where I used to work when Rupert Murdoch made his bid to buy that paper there was a CEO of Dow Jones at the time. I'm who had who whose name was Richton he no he was he was had a working class upbringing. He was not a Boston Blueblood of the kind of Bancroft the variety and he played both sides of the deal and ended up having a lot of conversations with bankers on the Murdoch side and giving being them a little bit of insight into how to divide the Bancroft family which had cousins upon cousins and lots of historical divisions and so the you know the finale of the last last season which reveals Holly Hunter for having played both sides is very much based on the Nino. He couldn't have survived inside of newscorp escort because he had served his purpose and now he was gone and so I think hustling you're just GonNa pay money went away. He got paid lots of money and he went to go work for a private equity firm. Always Suray will be okay. Maybe I think she'll be like just logistically like why Logan would want someone like that to run his company. She's clearly to face like she was she wasn't is that like that's a good. She's strategic so so that's like a did he and I actually can kind of. I think we can all possibly relate to this a little bit that he is only going in the direction of someone someone because he is avoiding someone else so he's annoyed with in a success with his ship and so he's got this other person now. He's annoyed with her now. He's annoyed with Ray and obviously Kendall had his moment and he sort of brought Roman in and then he throws Roman out of the office when Kendall comes back and so it's just who does he. He hate less in the moment and so it's I mean I do strategy there. I don't I mean there's also there's also sex appeal appeal right. There's also a thing between that he likes. He's there's a certain amount of what he said to Kendal in the previous episode he said I'm construct your other ones and there's a measure of that going on US champion because the thing about the other person that's really about him but the the other thing that happens in in this episode is a bunch of Weird foreshadowing when Canada's his desperate attempt to try and join in sort of avenge Astana staying when he's attacked needs shoutout to rare for planning a wonderful funeral I mean memorial but then at the end when Masha is furious at Logan she goes God forbid. I should miss the plaque your shiny little gravestone and these like intimations mation of more talented becoming more and more explicit okay. You told me nothing about you. Stepping aside why you folks something here I didn't like it when you come into the guy should so my the company. You hear what you want to hear then you punish me for something. I didn't say I saw the judgment this U. P. carried this of me worship port hiring. Excuse me as time for the plaque off I'm going washer. Don't be fucking stupid who supply God forbid shot so one of the interesting things about season two is the logan has been in halo shape. He's been like unless he's not one where he's all right. Hang on he had all been in full control of his faculties basin me old seasoning like suddenly he did throw up in a glass at the valley yeah. He didn't remember his she. She makes that scrapbook for him should make some ascribe correct his houses well. I couldn't tell one rich people's rich person once you have a couple of dozen houses like how do you remember the remember that time when John McCain was asked when he was running for president how many houses do you own and he couldn't remember here is like six seven. Ah who among us have the whole show isn't it about it's about an old man man who can face dying. That's it that's the bottom line and I feel like that. What is everything is really about though probably know he's that's it. That's that's the only thing that motivates him is avoiding that fate and this was the whole all. This was was confronting his own mortality going back to his hometown. He can't even go into his childhood house. It doesn't want to think about the past at all too painful but also you have that kind of businessmen view on life that you know everything has happened in the past is a sunk on cost and the only thing that Israel is going to be able to create future. Why does he say everything in the past is made up because I think that's how he thinks like you know he. He is not one for introspection. You know he's not one for dwelling on the past. He just moves forwards because partly because the pastas so painful to him to look. We don't know what happened to rose. We don't know how he got the scars on his back. You know there's a lot of right real pain in his Boston. He deals with it by just e calling facon calling it yeah just a fun fact there was a period of time when Rupert Murdoch was going to write a memoir of his own where he was going to sit down and do his own autobiography and he found it's so I don't WanNa painful in the sense of he had too many scars that he didn't want to look back but he found it impossible to actually engage in that process process of going back and retelling his own life story that he scrapped the project and ended up never doing it and so it's very it's very recognizable that that there is no way to be able to write. It's slogan driving up to the House. He grew up in a dozen people standing outside of it and he can't get out of the car just drives right right on. That's what the past is to him so Gabe you you see where this way. The season is headed right. I mean I think razz got two more episodes and then she's she's toast and we're back to like which my kids am. I going to hand this to none of them. I really don't know what's going to happen. I don't I don't have a solid prediction. Prediction episode nine has to be the weasel right coming out on TV and suddenly like that. Shit Storm uh-huh hits the fan I mean can tell us the title of episode nine because like when we were talking about this is done the we knew it was going to be like that is what what has to happen because if that hits on DC yeah these hearings congressional hearings interesting is that of course it has to be the weasel because it hits on all the things it's Ray which touches Marcia then we also have the Greg's Greg decision about whether it's you know that's that's. That's obviously what I mean like the minute. You say Hey Greg Congressional testimony. You know has to happen you. Can you imagine that scene. I just like Oh and then he paid and then Logan's going to convince them to lie. I bet perfect. Maybe that's a bridge too far all right so I think that is what we have to look forward to for episode nine and I think that's going to be the COO leary threatening us next week on you. Sir You all WanNa live this grimm. It's going to be a good one next week on sleep money succession

Logan Kendall Kendall Jerry Hall Raya Greg Roman Rupert Murdoch connor Marcia Marcia Marcia Dundee Emily Peck Masha Logan Roy Ray John McCain UN Arthur Miller Ryan Little Logan Boston CEO
Goodbye, My Friend, It's Not the End

DirtCast

44:14 min | 1 year ago

Goodbye, My Friend, It's Not the End

"This episode is brought to you by GS K. No, two cancers are the same. That's why GS K R oncology. Scientists are working on personalized treatments. One way we design these new medicines is by harnessing patient's own immune system to target and destroy tumors. And by creating new combinations of medicines. That work better together, we hope to transform cancer treatment for patients in the future. Welcome back to your cast. I am your co host Madeline Davies I'm your other co hosts Meghan Reynolds. And this is going to be a very bittersweet episode. We are going to kind of take an indefinite pause on the show while we rejig or some things and figure out what's not working. And what is an ideally come back with something bolder and stronger and sexier than before and strong and fresh. So this is goodbye at seal later, but see. Later is going to you later could be never. This is either see you never or see you six two months theose or sometimes the event. Yeah. Neither of us as far as we know knock on water dying. No. I mean, every as I mean insofar as much as everybody's dying every day. I knew. I just like to remind people of mortality at every term. I opened the door did through you know, better than to open that door because I will run through it. And I never run now. I mean, I I love it. I I love I love your nihilism. Thank you. I was talking to someone recently rose like I'm like a really upbeat nihilist. That's my like kind of brand is. I think that I think that's accurate. Yeah. I'm like, it's kind of cool. It's fun that nothing matters. It's freeing it is will it invades chaos in a way that causes me. Great stress for you're just like, oh, you're like just so anxious over this one decision because what grand scheme of things nothing matters doesn't matter. Nothing matters. Everyone's going to eventually you're going to be forgotten and easier lucky three generations, if you're lucky if you're normal too. That's true. Grandmother's name. No. I don't either. No, do I have one. Obviously, I have one. I don't know both of my grandparents just sprung from the earth fully a little cabbages. Yeah. It's like some sort of creation myth. Yeah. It was just I don't have. I only have the family that I have laid eyes on. So that means anything that came before came from game from alternative patch her, right? Yeah. Cbs' fine. I I'm with you. Thank you. I appreciate that. So right. So as this is our final episode for the momento, Mattie. And I thought it would be fun. If we just sat in this room as we have for like a year along time. Yeah. I think the podcast has been on just over two years. Yeah. And I joined I don't remember. Yeah. Never nicely. Nicely. You always here. It's like I was always here. I was in the woodwork. And then I materialized in creation. I grew from this table. So we are going to sit in this room together. Just the two of us, and we're gonna talk about some stuff. Yeah. We're gonna we're gonna play a little loose. We're gonna talk about some stories of the week. We're going to probably go on some rants yet some riffs. Ooh. Love to riff. Yeah. So I mean, dry, your tears, which I'm sure are flowing start dismantling the alter someone's like, you're on the subway or the bus like are you? Okay. Are you? Okay. I was gonna say, ma'am. And then I was like, well, I don't know, sir. Look, there's no straight men who are just like I can think ever my dad. Yeah. My dad listens. This also to Robin. Hey, dave. We have like a nibble of dirt dirty. Yeah. This is actually pretty dirty isn't actually pretty filthy dirty in like a hubba hubba away. You moving your eyebrow. I can't do it can't do without. How is lifted her? I row with her finger. Okay. Here's this tiny dirt nugget that I've found Melby and Jerry Hallo of the Spice Girls might have slept together the link but law. Okay, I feel I feel no particular way about this. I think I guess that makes sense. Yeah. I think if you're like young and in like any kind of traveling group right there tends to be some mash of parts. Yeah. I mean, it's like you're together. Twenty four seven you're on a tour bus like you're so close to these people that they're like your friends, also your family, possibly your lover's. If you wanna be my lover, you also are my friend. Why they were giving us clues all along. God. Fuck. Yeah. I also just think like, yeah. Like, they're probably like partying lot. Yeah. You know, I mean, she happenings happen. You know, what happens on the spice world tour? Bus stays in our hearts and stays there until someone flaps their jaw and says something about it in two thousand eighteen this is where we aren't like the birthright trip of Popstars. You know, I feel like both of them have at least one of them has either denied this or has been kind of like like no do about this. But I think they did. Yeah. I mean this like let us have it. Yeah. Just I mean, there are so many things. So let us have this one like nice thing. Yeah. You know, ginger spice. Okay. That's Jerry, right. Yeah. Yeah. These are two of my favorite Spice Girls, actually say now that I think about it. Although I do think Mel c has the best voice. Did you watch Penn? Fifteen. I watched two opposites of it. Okay. I understand. There's a space girls episode. Yeah. Somewhere. It made me feel so awkward because my best friend in middle school like legitimately. Did look like Melby really God. Like, she had the same hair. She is a lot like her love that unlike very much embraced it. And like, I think I really embraced like sporty because I could. Wear jeans because they've made my legs breakout knives. So I was like oh track. I know about hive legs. I didn't know about. Oh, yeah. It was. It was a rough time K you look how far you've go really made fun of me for wearing bike shorts and look at what's coming back right now. I mean, I love that. You're a you're a soothsayer for twenty nineteen fashion. So true. I think the reason I did not watch as much of Penn fifteen as I thought I was going to is because those girls are for your like four years younger than me something like that. Thirty one 'cause they're supposed to be there in middle school in the two thousands. I was in college. I mean, I think there's some stuff that you're going to cause like resonant, I really loved it. I think after I'm done watching all the garbage like five year old reality shows that I have unearthed that we will discuss later. I will take some time. Speaking of the cultural zeitgeist, yes, meta juicy us gnomes tonight. Seeing it tonight. I did request spoilers from Jacksonville, pop culture. Reporter his all cells who graciously provided them to me. She basically just like explained the plot to me and explain like, whatever he wants to. And all that great news is my brain is twist cheese. So I only like vaguely remember what happened. So I learned things I mean of I'm realizing now as I age that I have a listening problem. So I mean, I listened to all of what Hazel said, maybe it's a hearing problem. I listened to all Hayes all said, but are no. At e and like, a sponge sure it was orb water. But also Burras that's true. That is that's awful. That's accurate and your full of germs. I am. It's I should be microwaved for cleanliness every three weeks or so. So I don't know actually. I just throw. He's throwing the win. They smell like spongy. Yeah. So I should be tossed out right now. We're not gonna microwave mega. I'm starting to get spongy you sought it out. I saw on Friday. How was it is good? Okay. I would say it's not great. Ooh. That is what I have heard. Also like everybody is really really good in it and entertaining heard lupita is amazing. She's so good. And like the two little kids just like be still my heart. Yeah. Wonderful. And then the guy from Black Panther was also really good hot one with the thighs that Mr. Simon. Yeah. No one can stop talking about his thighs. Like can't wait to see your thighs on a big screen, and it's like not overly like Corey. Okay. So, you know, I'm. Mm a giant baby. When it comes to anything scary. It's kind of scary. But it's scary in like a fun way. Okay. It's not scary. And like an anxiety way. Like Herat like again, my not like hurting. I literally cannot see another. Although I will see that director is next movie. What's it called midsummer? We'll because I don't want to. I'm scared. Cool. I want to be scared. And then I usually regret it because I have to sleep with the lights on for one night or so PD from the good places in it. Oh, he is. Oh, then I will definitely see it. I mean, I'll see it. Anyway, does matter, but that's just a fun bonus for me. Yeah. That's funny. You're like I will never see another movie like hereditary that guys next week. And then everything else, I didn't see his spirit. And that seemed like it would be scary. I have no stomach for gross either. I can tolerate like a marathon of like what not to wear. Oh, same like, my that's like my baseline for takes like scary in its own way. But since we're talking about things we haven't ever gotten to. Yeah. It's crazy that Stacy and Clinton hate each other. I know, but I love it. And it also makes sense to me because Stacy London seems like a lot of woman to go. I've always just loved her like white streak of hair her white streak is aspirated signal to me as I have noticed an a white streak blossoming in my bangs. Oh nice. I'm trying Lynn to. Yeah. I'm just but it's not like it's not nearly as uniform as hers vary like Caras like she got scared as a girl. Yes. Yes. Like a ghost scared her art ever haired, girl, that's where the ghost touched her on the head, and then her hair sprouted white ever since the thing it's wild that they get into these like Twitter spats seems like they liked each other on the show. I mean, they're very good actors. I guess yeah. If you if we're going to go there that shows a great show, though, it is very dated. Yeah. I also always hated Nicarico erosion haircuts nickel. Roseau does bad haircuts. He all Gibson was so much. Better. He like gave every woman his haircut. It'd be like like close like how rate he loves like a sort of Kate Gosselin adjacent sort of choppy kicki Bob to pick see situation like something that requires a lot of wax. Yeah. I guess. Workplace as a curly. My worst nightmare is to get that haircut. Because it's just like you is what do you do with it? And it's like you don't have like a cool looking for. Oh, it's just like a little like a pup- review Bessant boyfriend. It's just like why did you do this to me? Why don't we you mean airy leaned into that? All I did always love even though I think her makeup is bad Carmody. I thought she was a soothing presence. Sure. I agree. Dumb as a box of rocks. Insane Votaw cts. Oh my God. Yeah. Carmody space like did not move like, no. She likes smile, and it was like, but she I thought she was always very nice Eos thinks, you know, too much. I make up almost everybody on that program. But neither here nor there. A TLC reality show episode would have been something that I would have really enjoyed. We did touch what we did the trading spaces one. Which was yes. But T L C's corner on the market of like, they have dislike excavated every possible facet of like love and relationships, and then also like overweight people both we are going to talk about one TLC really are one that has been on for a while. But that I just recently discovered and feel fucked up that I did not. I mean, I new about it didn't watch it. Well, this is my mom's favorite show. I think ever really she loves it. Oh my God. Shouting out. Both my parents will solve Amy. Hi, amy. So I tend to only watch it when I'm home with her because I like really like watching it with her because she oh that is so and so yeah. Like, she knows all of the Goss the show that Mattias is speaking of that I'm out. No we did. It is a little program called ninety day fiance to me, Megan Reynolds, it is the best show on television the premise is you can probably get the premise from the title. But it is couples who have met like either online or in another country have ninety days to get married because the person coming over the United States is on k one visa they say this at the top of every show. There's a little thing that flashes. It's like this how can one visa works bobble book, and then they highlight like four or five couples all of whom are being scammed like to various degrees. I think I mean, but who skimming who good? Yeah. I mean, it it depends on the couple. In ninety days. We're going to be husband and wife. People say nineteen year old. She's just using you. Maybe she could be. Swallow on vacation lost my virginity and had has baby. She's beautiful. She's sexy, but just ninety days to get to know my mother. Very good cook. Mom, my biggest thing that I hate is. When like a guy brings a woman over here on the promise that he's like doing very well. And then she always arise and he's like losing like carpeted one bedroom apartment in the middle of like Indiana nowhere like and he's just like, actually, I my mom is by main source of income. And then when she's like what the fuck like why didn't like, oh, you don't love me for me. And it's like no you don't love her for her. You don't let nobody loves anybody in this situation. You know, you don't know anybody each season is like contained in you can really just hop in at any point. Because if you were introduced to the couples in the beginning like the fucker e that is happening at lake sees episode seven will you just need a brief catch up. And then you're all good. So I've watched parts of season three parts of season for some of my favorite couples from these seasons. Nick. Cole and his on Nicole is a twenty two year old woman from in Florida, which looks love I hate her on my God. I know she's the worst sorry, please. They met online. I believe they had. Yes. Said never met impersonation prior to her going to Morocco. Whereas on is from he was. Quite surprised? She very much misrepre represented herself, both as you know in her photos and ensure her like their communications. Yeah. I'm talked to Nicole. It's not like just like fifty five percent. Because I always want to go Jim with NBA held. But are you attracted to me? No matter what I love you, just please physical, gene together. But are you attracted to me, no matter what? It looks like they are still together. I think so I mean, the thing with her was that you went to Morocco to meet him her mom is like we don't want you to go. Mothers. Incredible. You're too stupid. Yep. Pretty much which is like imagine your mom like it's not like, we're worried about your safety. It's like, yeah. We're worried about your safety because you're too dear. Like not row Martin enough to handle this to that multiple times. Yeah. And she already has a daughter that she was just like fuck it. I'm leaving. But the thing was that like she didn't know research into like what like a Muslim government or that's true. And so she kept trying to like hold his hand in public and like kiss Mike touch him at cetera. An- every time he'd be like, no, we can't do this like she wanted to share a hotel room with him and got very very when he wouldn't do it. And he's like, I don't think you'll get like. I will go to jail, right? Like, this is not allowed here. I'm not like just like dissing you right? Like, I will go to jail if we like are not married insurer hotel taking that as like a personal thing. Yeah. And then he's like kind of a dick too. In this way, that you're dislike think of the green card. Another couple from the same season different season. Melanie and Davar Davar from Jamaica. He was the lifeguard at the hotel that she was staying at in Jamaica, they fell in love. Schorr very how Stella got a group that it is very how Stella got her groove back. Melanie lives in somewhere in the middle of Pennsylvania. She has two sisters their names. I have forgotten. But they were both incredible one woman. I think her name was Beverly had fire engine red hair like eyeliner that looked like it was tattooed on. And was like listen bitch. Like what the fuck are you doing her other sister, similar aesthetic vibe, similar like attitude? Both grade devise mom didn't seem psych that. Melanie was white. Didn't they end up working out? I think they did. Yeah. Like they like actually really liked each other. I think I think that went ended up. Yeah. They did. There is also Lauren and Alexi Lauren met Alexi on a birthright trip in Israel. Oh, she the one who has threats. Does he have Terance think? So a really, yeah. I think that's her. They had to live in her. Parents condo in Florida. She gave up her like one bedroom apartment in New York. And then all of them. Might crammed into the condo. And her dad gave them a lecture about how they have the sexy doesn't want to see a condom wrapper. He is wanna hear it. He doesn't want to see it there. No. I e for fuck sake. I just those were three couples that I enjoyed watching one couple that I did not enjoy watching was Mark and NICKY, Mark is like fifty something. He has three kids. Nikki is nineteen. She's from the Philippines. Oh, I do. Remember mark's? First wife was also from the Philippines. He his daughter is like two years older, the Nikki they had to have a very uncomfortable like dinner meeting in front of like like on the shores of the lake where he lives in Maryland their season is the one that I don't think I finished. But I can't imagine. I mean, I guess I I can't really imagine that one working out. But I bet it probably does. Honestly you've gotten to like Danielle in Muhammed, right? Not yet. So they're they're amazing that one that everyone says it's like wait to get to that one. Yeah. 'cause she's quite a bit older. Okay. He's kind of like this young super fit, dude. Yeah. Who clearly like wants to go like women Miami. And he can wear tight tank top. Oh, hello. Okay. Got it. You know, like he often just like goes to Florida. And I'm just like, yeah. I think like I don't think you're the right flavor for him in multiple ways. Sure. Sure. Well, we saw the sane of you at the wedding. You said that you could not kiss her. Yes. Okay. And you has a kiss before that. Yes. You have intimate before that. Yes. You have. Okay. So you kind of consummated the relationship was there any intimacy actor the wedding at all after the win s there was but we've thought facing a problem. What is what was the problem? I don't want to say like this is very private, but she's like, she's martyr, and it's just like you married like a much younger man from a country that you don't know am I just skip and find that one watching ninety day fiance for me is like a personal experiment to see if I can stick with a reality show that is of this nature because like usually dating reality shows reality shows that concern marriage and love like I do not find interesting I much prefer like a real like a competition based reality show. So you think you can dance a project runway a cooking extravaganza. I don't get the bath. I mean, I get the bachelor, but I also don't get the bachelor like I can't do it. You haven't mentioned kind of the goat of ninety day fiance, whom switches on fees a my fucking God. How did I? A. Russia. She's incredible. She has had so much plastic surgery. Would that she looks like a doll from different angles, though, her face is so confusing. She's married to a guy named it's George radar. It's spelled hor. Hey, he says, George, but does this family also say George number, but he's a fucking loser. Yeah. When I first online, I was just like, wow, I knew she was my dream girl. We travel the world together. I thought that I wanted to be with your. So I fees to the US came on. But when God here, there was a whole lot that I didn't know about her. So I had to learn it the hard way. And he also is like the same thing rose. Like, oh, you didn't love me for me. And it's like she's like my favorite line of the entire show. Okay. Is he said, oh, would you not love me? If I didn't have any money, and she looks him dead in the eyes and says, would you not love me if I was not hot. Would you love me if I was hot? Would you love me if I was not? And then he's just like, yes. And it's like, no you fuck in one it, man. The last episode I saw on fees. It was like pretty close to their wedding. They got into like a huge fight. They were in. There was like a producer standing outside of their SUV, and he had like a huge stack of money. And it was like I was going to give this to her. So she can let go back to Russia because it's like isn't working. But then I saw the follow up the like reunion or whatever, and they were still together. Yeah. All right. She's she is an incredible reality television characters. She would have a great career. So true again. Like, I said goat get she's amazing. I cannot believe I forgot her. I mean, I loved TLC's reality programming. Now, I've heard that the next step after ninety day fiancee's love after lockup which is on. What what the hell is it on? We TV which is the wedding channel. And I will get there. All right, Dan. We'll get all right. I'm ready. It's like a tier of reality show that I have not completely immersed myself in not out of judgement super depressing. Yeah. I think it just like I like seeing like larger than life characters is when it's just like all this is sad. I do like the sort of CD underbelly like I do like to see the sort of. I guess maybe I'd like to see desperation like bear in laid out. Like, it is on these shows on a lot of these shows are like legally early questionable like they've done a lot. There's been some stuff written about ninety day fiance, and like how it reflects on like the immigration crisis in a way where it's like this is how Americans like, yeah. They're immigrants. Yeah. Just again. I'd like tons of terrible things. Yeah. I I understand that the choices. I make are not always morally or even just I mean, it's it's true. It's like trash none of us. None of our decisions. Are you know, why we talk about these? That is true. I mean, the show is like pure, gar BAAs. Yeah. But I mean, you know, garbage again, I whenever I go home. I loved her dislike curl up with my mom on the couch binge. It's so nice. It just goes so smooth. You can look up and like eight hours of elapsed. I mean, that's how I watch all of dating around. Says like this might be fun. And then like, however, like three hours later, I was like redone basis. I need more Kundun your own. What does it acceptance of the mediocre? Yes. Just how I live my life every day. So that is a show that I would have loved I would love to preps write a dissertation on. But I need to as I need to solve my commitment issue with television. And I'm hoping that this will fill. There's also as we're going to talk about next cutting this push into like I feel like it's like true detective, it's like what true detective in cereal like hath wrought every single network is trying to produce their own versions of God. You're right. It's like the off shoot of like the true crime, boom. But now it's like diluted into different like tributaries. Right. And so like Hulu now has the act which is based on gypsy rose and her mother Dede Blanchard. It's a really horrific story. Yeah. That if you're into it, you should just watch the documentary. It's very good. It's extremely good. And it does a much better job of telling the story. I I mean, did you have you how much of the act of you watched? None. I watched twenty minutes of it yet last night while I was putting this together. And was like, no, I don't wanna. Yeah. This story like five times for starters. There's like this weird controversy to are like Michelle dean co created it who's the reporter kind of like I really like went in hard on the story. Yeah. She co created it with this guy who's not like trying to act like she didn't right. There is some issue about like. Yeah. I guess they were doing press around it. And he was sort. She was sort of being a raised from the narrative of creating it writing it being the person who originally reported the story, it's cetera a blink. If you love a true story about a daughter who is tortured by her mother for years, and then murdered her mom. Here's another version of it for you to consume. When I was watching it. I was like, okay. First of all, yes, I've already seen this. I've already read this. I'm like, I know whatever that's fine. But the story itself is so sorted and gross. And like dark that the TV at optician of it. I think made it to it's like two glossy. I mean as television generally does I think right? It was too glossy. It was too like slick it just felt like a shortcut as that's that was I. I would not for the life of me. I was staring at that woman's face being like who are you fucking Patricia Arquette? Okay. All in a wig bad wig. Yes. That wig wigs get me. I'm so stupid that put a wig on a person. I'm like who are you? Hello. Remember, I'm not gonna continue watching it. Because again, I feel the need to be reminded of this heroic tale of Munchhausen's by proxy. I will simply watch the documentary on HBO oil revisit the source, which is the story that was on BuzzFeed twenty fifteen or whenever that was. Did you watch the inventor? How's your Lisbeth homes? Well, that's it. I I loved him. Holy fucking shit. So this is like one of those stories that I admittedly really slept on sale. It was happening. And kind of only really started hearing about it once all of my friends, read bad blood, which also say the book by John Carew, Harry ru carry ru difficult thing that came out this past year that like everyone is nuts over the last book. I finished says something about me or the or no not really doing great. Thank you. Yeah. And it's like, I mean, we're not gonna get into the Elizabeth home story right now. I mean, there's no need Wilde's like watch the documentary. It was wild to hear her speak in because they mention her like, the deepening her voice. Yeah. In the book. But I was like you can't be that bad. And then I think I saw the trailer for the inventor was like, whoa. Well, and then I saw people being like, why are we focusing on this woman's voice? Mrs like, look, I. Am a deep voice woman. I support other decoys reality show, but that is not real voice. No, just like an all of her like, a static outward choices are so strange the hair yet like God, his one thing that also commented on a lot where it's just like she liked shows up to the White House looking like, a she drank. Yeah. And it's like, I don't know. It was so strange to me that like they pose this as like, she beguiled all of these men, and I'm like, I don't know if it was hurt sexuality that did that. No. I don't know. He's like fair cute. No, she's I mean, she's like a thin blonde woman with big blue eyes that don't seem to blink. And she I guess she had she has a deep voice or should. I look where here. She speaks with conviction about something that is like clearly not going to work like theranos. There's no thraw news is how is it? How does one pronounce it? It's a a thing to of good therapy diagnostics. Arana's k thank you. Event. It was good those good. But AVI Govender did do a really good one which I shook me to my core. I mean, my guess is just like everyone in Silicon Valley wants to get a piece of the thing that will actually change the world. That's the driving force behind all of these startups. And all these people with charismatic front front people. Who are like, yes. This Cup will revolutionize cancer. And if you say, it convincingly Meghan to put up, and I wouldn't put a Cup with lipstick on it in front pushed it towards Mattie. You know, you never know mold from bread cured penicillin. It's true. These traces of lipstick that I got in the Cup might cure cancer. We don't know. But if I was convincing enough, and I had a black turtleneck, and my hair still look like this because look great right now, and it washed it, and I talk like this. Then maybe I think it is a thing to die in the should happens in Silicon Valley all the time total like people have so much money to throw. Around. They just wanna like throw it something that they think will do good. And also just like big part of it is believing your own scam. Really? Yeah. I went on this whole Twitter. France about this so apologies to my many followers rating. Boy, oh boy. I am listening currently to this four part podcast about Joan of arc. It does have the podcast is history on fire for of the episodes. They do different person each episode has her life is so like wild along rights for. There are a lot of weird civil Aries Joan of arc. Yes. Tell me Philip both from a very young age had this like insane conviction that they were going to help save humanity. Okay. Both had like confidence that was well beyond what their social station was that got them into rooms that otherwise they wouldn't have gotten into on their own conviction. Yeah. Joan of arc is described as like being very pretty or like being pretty but men. So basically, if you if this was like, the fourteen hundreds, and you are a woman travelling with an army, you would get raped like a minimum of twenty times. That's amazing. And somehow she and that was just off the top of my dome pointing you would get sexually assaulted left. And right. She never did. Oh, interesting. The way men described her was as like being pretty, but so pure that their bodies completely emptied of arousal on in choose around. Wow. There there was just no thought in my mind this pure being. Yeah. Yeah. And then Elizabeth homes is like kinda described by these men in the same way like describes her as monastic. Yeah. Versus just like God. She just was like this like beam of light, basically, right, man. So crazy. Yeah. And both of them like probably were full of shit total at one hundred percent like there's like a theory that like Joan of arc heard voices because of malnutrition. Or she just like maybe dislike had some sort of disorder was not diagnosed. Yeah. For mental distress. Nothing was dying at that time. So, but like they both like fully believed their shit in a way that we have wild that just like people believed them. Yeah. I mean, I think the Mark of scammer that actually gets over is conviction. Yeah. Is like you have to you have to believe in the shit that you're selling. She clearly lives with homes clearly did and still does. Yeah. Even though it has been debunked widely across the across the land will like when Joan of arc would go to these courts, like talk to these noblemen or the king whenever she would be like, yeah, I'm sent by God. And they'd be like, okay. Can you prove it, right? Great question thing. Yeah. And she'd be like, no the way I prove it is I'm gonna win the war that I mean, that's one way to do it, man. So you just have to trust me. I'm going to win the war against England. And that's like. That's kind of the same thing where it's like. Oh, can we see how the? Machine works. No, you would just like steel our our idea. Right. Like, you can't anything and just like these people are just like. Okay. All right. Well, anyway, sure. A check or you know. Yes, you can lead to wroups so insane. It's a crazy story. I loved it. I'm always game to hear a tall tale about someone. Who who's I mean, who's confidence the confidences there, obviously, it has to be there's no way she could have like she dropped out of Stanford. Yeah. I like nineteen to like do this right again. I'll be on her station. I mean, think it. Yes. The the parallels are there. It's just there's so many things about it's just like, I I guess I feel sort of bad focusing on like her appearance more. So than like, the fact that she was like, a we focus on soccer path. It's true. You know? Yeah. He looks like a little penis. I was gonna talk about like the hoodies. Oh, I think physically look like a little little dog. But I'll take it. I doesn't not look like a dog. So I mean, if he was bald he'd really looked like a dog in any case, it's just wild to me. How again how like all of these old white men were like, yes, of course. Yeah. Definitely sure. Like, they're dumb. It's fucked up. I don't know. So almost like for thought all the white men tend to fuck things up a lot. But, hey, if anything with homes fighting for equality and showing hey, young white women can also really fuck things up. I mean being a disrupter not in the Silicon Valley sense. But in the sense of just like, what are you even fucking doing? Like, you are disrupting by like ruining everything also lying out of every orifice possible. That's my uncle and I loved him. Okay. Just equal opportunity scammers come in every size shape. It's true. They're everywhere. I mean, I'm been scamming Mattie for a year now out of what I don't know. Nothing literally, honestly. Terrible. Mark, you know, me well enough to know that I could not pull off a fucking scam. If I tried. Yeah. I like to think I could. But I also like wear my feelings to you could get me easily though 'cause I'm a dummy. Yeah. So the pride in that. I don't it's like skimming baby. Be like trying to scam a toddler it'd be so easy. Then you'd be like Ovacik just a baby, and it was too bad. But they just a little baby. Yeah. Man. I might watch it again. Maybe although I feel like there is like a peak of Elizabeth homes content and thoughts and were at we're on the other side. Yeah. But maybe I could be visited, although I am surprised for myself that usually hype of this sort makes me not want to engage with the thing, which is why held off on reading bad blood for so long. And then I read it I read it in a weekend. It was like, oh never mind. I like to read everything about this. Now, I have not watched the twenty twenty episode featuring Elizabeth homes, which I was told was not bad. I was excited to read bad blood until I found out it wasn't about the Taylor swift song. Okay. All right Allie. I'll let you have that one. Thank you for the last show, you please. This is now as your. Unleash everything. I can have any like favor memories from the pod as we wrap up. My god. Let me think I liked to drink wine with Matt invasive, Matt hearkens and Vivian Olen to our best most consistent guests there, medium, tiny hurting, Nancy Kerrigan and nineteen Ninety-four museum. Visit good plug. We drank celebrity wine with them, and I really enjoyed that. Because I got to drink wine and also talk to people that I liked. Yeah. What of my I think you are out for this. But it's when we interviewed sally-ann sell Sonko fro short that was she is a bulldozer in a good way. Yeah. I think the reason she reached out to as 'cause I wrote like a snarky blog post about hunter mountain, which was her like jersey shore esque show set at a ski lodge in upstate New York. She was a bulldozer of a woman, but I respect it. And I also like talking to why will I forget his name. Now the guy below deck. Oh, my favorite. Mark cronin. Lopez. It was a wonderful episode. I love you. Mark Cronin leaves lease Lopez who produced like rock of love and flavor of love this real life. It was a two part episode. That was so much fun. That was a good get. Yeah. I really liked sitting down with Matt from pop culture died in two thousand nine that. He was a great interview. Everybody was so great everyone. I mean, we've had we've had fun. So I don't know just a really hardy. Thank you like all of our guests who've come on. Yeah. It's not like easy to get away in the middle of the day. Something for that alone. We thank them. But also just for the great conversations they generate insights. And of course, thank you like Bobby finger for Kalonge the podcast. Thank you to all the staff who routinely dropped what they were doing to come on who he would force. Yeah. And then also thank you to. Of course, Monmouth Fiji who is the executive director of audio here is a rock and Rachel withers who's our producer for overly longtime and Levi sharp who produced a big bulk of our episodes like we really could not have done it without all of them. No because it would be so bad if we just Mattie, it would just be like, oh, an unedited recording. And Jamie Kilonzo who mixed the majority of our lives like if they sound good. It's not because of us because we don't generally sound. We sound fine. But not great. Yeah. And of course, like, I don't know we kind of had this very loyal group of listeners. We did these past couple years, and like, I don't know you guys rule. Thank you for listening to us talk about truly the stupidest shit. Yeah. Like for hours hours of ours. You'll never get back. But we are happy. That you chose to spend some of those hours listening to me and Mattie talk about like our cats. Oh, yeah. Thank you to Lenny and Carl and easy and Christina. Boy cat who fucks the sweater yet? I don't know, man. I am excited to see what we end up doing in the future with this pod. If it returned are lives and our lives. Yeah. I'd like to know what will do with our lives in the future. Why it's on? Guy. Really good. We had a really good theme song. The our theme music by Stewart would are is quite Jonty, we gave him so many notes, and he's somehow managed to come up with something. So thank you to him. Thank you. Stuart would. Oh. And thank you to Jim cook for making cool art stuff for us all the time. Yeah. Just thank you everybody for again, enduring and enjoying. Thank you. Everybody came to our live show. Thank you for not pelting us with tomatoes or rotten strawberries, two things that I was expecting. But did not receive. I think strawberries are so expensive that why would you throw them? It was January. Also, someone of really had to dislike us to get strawberries than have them be rotten. Yeah. A citrus fruit. Maybe I would assume oh. Pelting with clementines that would hurt. It's been a good ride. Yeah. That's a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to cast and thank you to all of our guests who have ever existed, Montana. Mopey is our executive director of audio this episode was mixed by Jamie Colosio. Our theme music is by Stuart would want to send us a tip or just let us know what you think fit us up at their cast at Jesuit dot com. Or follow us on Twitter at dirty casts pot.

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Slate Money: Succession, S2E8, L to the OG

Slate Money

53:06 min | 11 months ago

Slate Money: Succession, S2E8, L to the OG

"The following podcast contains explicit language before we get into this episode. We have a big favor to ask of advertises is conducting a survey and we would be very grateful for your help with answering questions it will take less than ten minutes of your time and your participation helps her show so go to sleep study dot. Com to took complete the short survey now thank you hello and welcome back to the slate money succession recap podcast after last week's seeks dark and gloomy edition. We really hit a comedic stride this week. I'm feeling salmon of axios. I'm joined by Emily Peck of Huffpost. I am joined by Gabriel of slate. Hello and this is the episode I've really been waiting for because this is the episode where we Ed joined by Sarah Allison of the Washington Post who knows everything about everything but specifically about media indeed and in fact you wrote an the entire book about Rupert Murdoch Buying Washington Post. We'll see general main basically rose an entire book about about the last Logan boy buying yeah. I did buying the PSE and I'm so happy to be here. I feel like this is my true. Calling this is your. I feel like we like this is. It's quite sad there are no. PS is in this episode. It's true the ghosts are there and Kendall what happened to Naomi. He's got this whole new lady so let's without thinking of missing. Pierson yeah he was he was all up in the whole Naomi. PS Name and then and then she went on to regents park to go feed the ducks next thing you know he's he's getting into some uh-huh actress. Jennifer from the sand Jennifer psycho-sexual but I mean she's just going to be a blip obvious. No she's John around the next on the next plane but the line about Jennifer came from Logan where he goes. It's up to shave and he says seen candles latest mind like a balloon so I'm I mean we may as well start uh emily. Do you have a theory on like. Is this like symptomatic of Kendall falling apart and totally not having it together. Oh I think this episode was really interesting for Kendall because he's quite cheerful and almost like an a manic yeah because lost episode was clearly very depressive and now this big swing suddenly he's grinning what he's when he smiles on drugs when he smiles Elsa Kana and he's like I'm so happy. It's a genuine smile. He's genuinely hey. It hasn't worn off right like that was essentially redefining. Fuck Channel burnt all right. So what are we going to do here. I feel like the island put in the giant island size bed and in just two Dundee you come to Dundee. Let me play. I mean it's like two nights off. It's not Arthur Miller Ryan kind of own a movie studio. Where's Dundy. How about you look it up on your phone on the way to the airfield subsiding your driver and I'm getting overtime. I mean there's a line. He says near the beginning. Oh to connor he says I'm drowning in Pussy and everything's Golden. It makes you think he may a not be on the drugs anymore. He may have be may be giving sex addiction a try yeah yup well that could be. I just sort of thought like Oh. This is why a he shouldn't go off drugs because this is what he feels like when he's doing drugs and this is probably a really good place for him and then you see the sort of deflated shell of a human he's become when his father doesn't like that his new girlfriend has said awesome twice in the course of one conversation and then it's all over for him yeah and it was very funny of of how the girlfriend. Jennifer calls him out when they're walking down the hallway and there's all this like pieces from you know. Logan's history and she's like you talk about your dad a lot and it was just like very deflating. I think to him it was like a little puncture in his little balloon of unreality basically because that's what he's doing is just like hiding from what what he's done which is manslaughter. I like to mention it ever episode yeah. I think it's it's in the back of his mind all the time. Maybe like when he's having sex. I mean who knows I mean this. This is not the broken robot of episode one. He was very broken lost episode when his dad forced into go into the House House the guy that he killed and then like yeah he's just massively overcompensating and he doesn't really understand what he's doing but he also which has to to be a part of it gets to stick the knife a little bit into connor by snatching away the actress from Khanna's Goffin's play just just went in when when she leaves fans wonderful out will be really meters girlfriends. Kendall goes up to to to earn goes that was you were a playwright. They no one can no one can think of a single good good thing to say about the play there even like what little maggots in ways that are fighting. Maybe my favorite character on my my gosh now I get it so when he's complaining done the midges biting his San might by you know the sand in Sans creatures living in indeed thriving and and he's itching Greg was he complained about him last episode but he was really back in it this time especially with his grandfather disinherited Greg's going to inherit a quarter of a billion dollars or is he or or is he choose between the waste our Waco stock which is apparently going zero because U N an Roy is battling deal right wait. You all think that he's backing the weasel situations okay so let's let's talk a little bit about what pizza deal did to. Gorka because this is lily what the subtext of this entire episode is all about. Okay Okay Sarah. No you go ahead. You have a good handle on it because I hadn't even thought of that until he walked in here but the Peter Thiel Gawker situation was just that the billionaire Peter Thiel was funding funding Hulk Hogan's lawsuit so what happened is. I need to jump in here because it was yeah. It was secret like this. One is clearly less secret. I think you and is not trying to keep it secret well. We if we were at Silicon Valley Party with Peter till we would feel like it wasn't secret but we have the benefit in this situation -Tuation of being inside the hearty you be so sure it's you and just because he made that crap about cruises because he made the crack about cruises at the end and I right because I was thinking maybe the final line it did seem like Stuey that was my first thought who's funding this okay but then when he comes in at the very end yeah the final line yes he says it's hard to know which is more toxic your news outlet or your Cruise Division. This is your fault this this empire of Shit time to pay up yeah you're right that was. I did this to you and and you need to read that in the light of what Jerry had said which is basically we've through twenty million dollars this weasel and he didn't blink one someone is funding him and and and cities like we'll open the phonebook play of any number of people who would want to bring logan down but it. I think that that was just you and basically coming out and telling Logan. I'm doing this. I think he thought the Logan knew about it but Logan's only going to find out about it tomorrow but in any case the the story the very quickly the Hulk Hogan story is the Hulk Hogan sued Gorka because they published a tape of him having sex and and wasn't a particularly likely lawsuit to win the legal standing and Gorka tried to settle with him and offered him a bunch of relatively generous settlements which given the likelihood of him winning any normal lawyer an any normal plaintiff would automatically take that and he kept on saying no and he kept on jurisdiction shopping he kept spending more and more money on lawyers and everyone on the goal could side of things like this doesn't doesn't make any sense. He's behaving incredibly irrationally especially when he would drop cases that were ensured just to make sure that like if they paid it would have to hurt them and this is exactly what they're referencing here in. This episode is that the weasel is is not behaving rationally the rational national thing to do beat the take the twenty million dollars what he's doing. He's trying to bring down the company. This is it goes back to a piece that I remember you wrote about Peter Thiel at the time where you said the PTO has not just brought down Gawker. He's invented a mechanism by which you can bring down any media operation you. If you have enough money you can now bankroll enough. Lawsuits suits refused to settle that you can now destroy any media company if you're a millionaire and that's what's happening in the show the UN's money comes from his brother and comes from the company Way Star Areco. Am I mistaken. He might well so he's all into treasury bills a little bit. I'd like to know what your theory theory is on. How Greg how his ultimatum to Greg fits into this situation was wide just site company. Is that what it is. He wants to protect him. Yes Crusade. You're either with me or your with Logan and if you're working more than you're you're not you're not me anymore. And what do we make of brother. UN crossing the birds out of Little Logan's notebook is that just the this is where all this started is because because Logan just wanted to bird watch. She just wanted to find the thrashes wasn't he was lying. If you've already messing with the reality of how many birds you you WanNa get to the truth is the purest don't write down the bird unless you genuinely saw that bed and this is all coming to into ruse now fifty. I have a question though which is how did you even get to Dundee garment. Is he like Greta. Don't don't you remember season one that he winds up like the Greg. Him Allies Right. Ryan and Greg trusted talk to him and he's like shut up. Don't talk to me. I'm greg is desperately trying to him because Greg knows that like he needs to get in with his grandfather fees. GonNa wind up inheriting any of its money and you having none of it and now you and it's like. Oh yeah you'll you'll. You'll you stand to inherit two hundred and fifty million Wolde because Greg. I mean the whole the whole story arc of Greg for the vast you know one and three quarter seasons is that he doesn't have any money and now he's like wait. I have two hundred and fifty million dollars coming to me like the minute you cock it yet. It seems like Greg is reluctant to quit this. I will listen to the whole show is like attraction and revulsion in the same time all around Logan and so you see this what I loved about this episode is that we all knew that it was true for all the Children Aldrin and the executives but now you see Raya being drawn into it and being humiliated in exactly the same way that anyone who comes into his orbit is humiliated basically after five minutes of being in his presence. I'm getting close to him and so I think that the Greg thing did he would even hesitate that he wouldn't even just be like okay two hundred and fifty million dollars to get away. I mean he's already made crimes. He's already going to live it quits in the bathroom. He goes up to look in the bathrooms. It's been a pleasure doing business with you but I I now. I have to take my leave. That was a good land and Logan can't let him do it not because he loves. Greg so much greg valuable employees but because if greg quits in order to go with uncle you and then lowest lost a point in the battle but also greg is genuinely conflicted and the reason is financial. He has that like swanky office now. He has has a nice six figure salary. He is comfortable in a way that you know when we first meet him in season one. He's like throwing up inside of a zoo do a now for the first time in his life. He feels like he's got his foot on the wrong of Latin. He knows on some level the he doesn't deserve that and so he knows if he quits he's going to have to find an actual job somewhere else and there's no actual right but it has to be less than I mean. It's not just financial because he's also he's also destruct. He's also destroyed evidence and and he knows I mean he gives himself this whole pep talk in terms last season about going to prison and being. I mean he's really deep in this and you would think that I I mean I I think there's more working in his mind than just the paycheck some point at some point he winds up teaming up with UN and the weasel and coming out and fighting on you know the white hat side against the Evil Logan Roy Empire. That's that's kind of inevitable right. He he becomes light. Logan's enemy and and and giving evidence against Logan slate money is sponsored by the Journal which is a new daily podcast from Gimblett and the Wall Street Journal. If you lake sleep money you might like this one. It illustrates how businesses drive the headlines. The host host Ryan and Kate Linebaugh and they look at where the three college would be better for everyone. Whether a recession is coming what we should do when the recession does this come. What happens to a city win. The minimum wage goes about fifteen dollars. Journal follows the money to understand how people across America gain access to power uh-huh and how they wielded once they've got it. Listen for free on spotify or wherever you get your podcast and I feel like in terms of the attraction and repulsion we saw Logan do this in the bathroom where he says he says to Greg. I really like you you know and there's something really like they love deductive. It's seductive exactly and we see Raya doing it to an Roman right. you know I had exactly likely were lower and it would she also says she also says it to to Rome to Roman and it absolutely works at neutralizes. The brothers shift can't get them to do anything in this episode and it works. I E Bogan. She gets Kendall to pull that rose all she can achieve as like some some low level like hazing but you can't. She can't these they're so toxic and they don't know how to love each other and they cannot even team up like she's. Ah Why would I love about the way that the this is all unfolding that they aren't beating you over the head with the fact that the kids are so easily played but they are so all easily played tiny little bone of affection from from pretty much anyone and they are all in so you know obviously the fact that Ray can even just throw these minor they know that she's a snake and that she's manipulated ship and she's already screwed her so the fact that they both are kind of like well why she so bad in the end you know and it's a little it's actually not that subtle but it feels to me like they let it play out in a way that is very satisfying because you realize that these kids are just so desperate spied for attention and please do it. I I'm going to take the other side of this. which is that what we saw here was like it was kind of the AVENGERS VENGEANCE VS? Thanos kind of thing that we everyone started attacking rare in a different way and each of the attacks like didn't didn't mortally wound her but in aggregate she was very alone and had no real support and Masha comes it might have candle does the you know he catta toast like shave obviously does like really cutting the other thing about oh. She doesn't drink and all of this actually works. This is my theory all of this actually works six in terms of persuading Logan. He's he should not trust to or appoint her is CEO and he sitting down at dinner with with shift and he goes. It's Hugh and shift like feels that it's going to be her and then Jerry calls. We're all fucked committee. What did she call it. What the fuck are we GONNA do. Committee the fuck you gonNA. Do Committee and Jerry does this thing and there's a little bit of a macguffin and Jerry. Does this thing where she says whoever the next. CEO is is going to get a huge amount of phase and it's GonNa wind up like basically being set up to fail and shave. I can take this job. I can be the next year we have weakened read to the point at which I which Logan will appoint means that have rare the I don't want to because I know what's happening. Red Doesn't know about this. You know the weasel so I'm going to just whisper in my father's. It is is say oh you know. It's let him appoint rare. Let laya walk into the Shit Storm. Let rare take all of the blame and then shift can come in post post shit storm if there's anything left. That's my question first of all. Is it so bad. Raya has nothing to do with what has happened at the company in the past so yes she'll become CEO and have to face a shit storm but she's not personally responsible for any of the shit storm so really is so that was why I called a little bit of a macguffin like but I mean I think once you enter into the I mean she's going to compromise herself. She's like yeah. This is what it is like. Once you get inside you've got you've probably already you know sold your soul in a million different ways so I don't think it's going to matter that she personally wasn't there learn but one of my favorite moments was when Logan is sitting there was ship and he sort of his trashing Raya and he says her you get. Did you get your fucking get it yeah. He's like she's blue and just like I am to you. fucking get it you fucking get it and it was like that's the most real affection and that. I've seen in the entire show. She's got my contacts. Every everyone is collided noticing. Yeah she's blue. She's liberal. My haven't yet but you and did you get it to me. She told me she drank. I showed skill with prick tees. Oh we don't use that any sort of usual. fucking wives have gone that way. I'm worried more is it. I got it right. 'cause you're smart smart and yet in fact what he's saying what he's talking about when he says you fucking yet. You're a liberal but you fucking get it yeah. He's referring to all the time she's humored him. Yes he's referring to all the time. It's racist and she's been like. Oh Okay Dad right because then they have this conversation like you can't you can't exactly which which she gets us she. She gets because she gets him. He's willing to kind of twist herself into whatever and you're right there. That's genuine affection in contrast and we have to go to the ridiculous over the top fake Oh affection of Kendall's rap to his dad and l. to the OJ itching. Let's do we believe that that Kendall would do this. Total direct reference Prince of course to James Murdoch's early career 'cause records. Where was I mean. This is James Back when he had was still at Harvard and and started a record label with friends of his that was a Kinda hit pop label and it was his own little rebellion about how he was going. GonNa have an earring in a tattoo and be his own little person and then of course it lasted for maybe five minutes and his father brought the company so I I mean that was just so satisfying to watch this entire I could. I almost couldn't watch it. It was so embarrassing and such a uncomfortable moment but it was I mean there was it was even more of a direct reference than the Hulk Hogan thing. It was like that James did that. He started his own. I don't think he actually wrapped at the foreign literally. Would we know about it like might have wrapped at some. Maybe I want to do is I'm going to have to go back to the tapes and see whether James medoc wraps when he was. I wish someone would leak that to us. Please email. It's late in in the early nineties. SEND THEM TO SLEEP MONEY AT SLATE DOT com. My boy squiggle cooked up beat for me. Check get on the door of the of the years drawing now he's rolling in a Roddam may regulate loops thought star general y'all the job and wwl I read his burning my eyes but I cannot look away aw Dude G. and you play and play up. Throw the BE G M he that was just a wonderful scene. I mean speaking of candle being in like high and manic and just like I don't WanNa say back on his game but sort of recovered from his Malays right I mean he was just he was really happy copying into it wasn't he. He's because it was all in service of his father out that in that sort of shadow and he's obviously got nothing I mean his whole the just the contrast between the Latte. He's back on his game but he's he. It's a bad game to use to. WHO's on that Game Marcia Marcia Marcia with Russia right like I am the big. The big like breakout star successions into is clearly jerry that for me. It's always been Masha and for me. I'm I'm so wait for next into what Marcia like managed to pull like that wonderful thing where she pulls verified and have you been fiancee's defenseman ray justly she has no idea what damage what was the quote she said about I win and I have have fought and I have lost and I have fought and won but when I lose the other one will generally lose an eye who's an eye right and then and then you go get it. Oh it was so excited. She has yeah so she I mean. She still is losing right now right. I mean she's board. Wait wait. I don't know I feel like so far. I'm not impressed by anything was so I feel like next week or in the future episodes. If she's really walked out we get to see what marshes Oh. She's actually been doing apart when Marshall's gone but also my share was one hundred percent down with ships assassination attempt on rare so there's that wonderful line where they're talking to each other and Shiva's like you allowed Marsha to Organiz the party and Masha just looks at her and says layer thought it would be nice. It was like she knows. Mush knows better than anyone. The the one thing that Logan hates more than anything else is rights party and Marsha just lead threadbare walk straight into that you know because his she wants to see rare implode and between the surprise party which Logan hates and you know one of my favorite had seen when they say surprise and you just turn that so much and marches when you talked him into going back by the way for more right can can we have here. We go if she wants to. Throw him a big surprise party. Who Am I to spoil it. Yeah that's good while we're just is talking about favorite characters and Marsha the Jerry and Roman situation on my golden the declaration uniform for marriage proposal the marriage proposal and the variety of ways that he does explain what they're going to do what he means by marrying right you eat me and I you like they do in Germany. What happens in Germany Helix. I mean Germany. I I also cannibalism uh-huh Oh and one more thing real quick. Should we get married. What about that like an an equivalent of the thing like I have duct you foresee to live with me. That's not equivalent then you kill me. You Chop my dick off. You know something I'm kidding but you know what I'm saying. You eat me you like they do. In Germany. Anyway thought to think about that is one of my favorite I wouldn't even call it. A side imploded so like the soul of the whole thing is going to okay another thing. We learn feel like we learned a lot about Logan this episode another thing possibly that Jerry was once his his. Thank you one thing he was the new thing and Roman is only slightly troubled by that. Yeah ups her appeal. You think he ever boned Jerry. He's delighted by love the idea the Roman Roman is clearly you know the only thing that he actually sexually attracted to is the worst thing you know the most humiliating most disgusting thing unhinged and if I wind up with my dad spoke a second that's like even more disgusting and makes it even more sexually appealing to them. Yes he cherishes the depravity. That's correct. That's it. I also want to know who Sally Ann is and why Logan bought her a harp. What is going on there. They keep right so that come up more than like that was a good good catch and I guess up. Could we talk about shift Comeback Episode Right. This was the first I smart successful play that she had made in all of season two. I feel like the master arc of season two is in season. Chivas set up as like the competent person has gotten out of the family emily and his now having a proper career as a person who can actually do stuff and at the beginning of season two by SORTA tapping her on the shoulder and saying it's you all of that crumbles and Logan and just brings her in and all of a sudden she's incompetent and flailing and fucking up all the time and that's what she's been doing right up until the end when she makes this play by getting rare handing rather the poison chalice and we'll see if that turns out to be a smart play or not but it's the first not flailing thing that she's done and one thing I thought was interesting was how she was dressed. In this episode from the time she's promised the job she starts wearing the full turtlenecks in the suits and all this but in this episode where she's trying to mount her comeback we see a lot more of shift skin like she wears turtlenecks dresses in two different scenes but they're bacchus right and we see she's just not as buttoned up anymore. She it's like they've the dress her to be more free and she has the back great line when she goes. I don't want to put a damper on Raya celebrations or anything but it's time we killed her day in her skull in with Iraq and you're like okay yeah and like you don't want to go up against shift wanting to smash your skull in with her because she house Rox but I do think that the whole I mean what brings all of them down is proximity to Logan so this is shifts fund period because she's pushing Raya into the sun and then we'll see what happens when she actually I mean I don't I think I actually feel like it's sort of nothing personal with Logan Roy but once you get sucked in you then become tainted and he abuses you and it's only a matter of time before your humiliated four on the floor cast aside bore on the floor. I mean that reference. Was You know Ms Good to remind everyone threat what happens is there anything to be said about. Marsha and like Rupert Murdoch's various wives and any references all logan references all his wife was yeah I mean I think that the it'll depend on what Marcia ends up eventually doing but if Marcia is a sort of Wendi Murdoch of of this show which it seems like that's who she would be. She was his third second third third. When he was his third. She'll become abusive and eventually really I mean we're being really literal than her. Sons will establish and create a dossier on all the things that she's done. She'll have an affair with various world leaders. Maybe somehow by and will eventually be cast out who's James in lockdowns. Mom Anna Mandatory as the I mean I I yeah so the the connor character is actually the oldest daughter who is in some ways prudence thank you prue and then Anna Has Lachlan James and Liz and then Wendy has grace and chloe and then obviously Jerry not. There's no more children Jerry Hall. Jerry Hall has not right. It's a little brady bunch but this is interesting subplot of like Kana running out of money where you have Roman buying a football team on a whim you have have Kendall the wrong lives Kendall Kendall sending jets and clearly not having any money worries in Kana who you know we remember his massive pad in New Mexico and he brought out like an entire hotel and that's suddenly seems we've woken up without any money he like. I know that Broadway productions can be expensive but like something well. He's also running a presidential campaign right. He's on two fronts. He's bankrolling a Broadway play. It's going to be a complete failure and he's running a presidential campaign those consultants in his living room right another great mom was when they're at Logan Roy's childhood home and Connor says I mean I would totally live her. I wouldn't put somebody could it's like they. They don't know I mean they would never for people to actually stomach kind of regular middle class also re connor the first Pancake Pancake Hickory line apparently apparently his mother was sent to an asylum or something. Did you catch the real world parallels there too yeah and they said something just like four connors. Mom Mom yeah I I then McConnell. Khanna's definitely a weird line we plot with uh when he when he comes out with that line about sometimes. I think he'll never truly understand that until I shit outside what yeah that was a running theme and throughout the episode did Logan. Actually should outsiders just myth his sort of went in his line. I mean I don't know how to make his Logan's discussion. And what did he say that the future is real but the past is all made up. I love that and his Rosebud was you know whatever whatever whatever the fuck it took to get me out of here his sister that he somehow feels responsible for her an and why you and that she said that actually that wasn't your the full right what's wonderful about the show is like I heard the set on someone else's podcast so ripping someone else but they don't really fill in the blanks. You know there's no a flash cheesy flashbacks to tell you exactly what happened to Logan in his child's. We just have all these little delectable clues about dead sister about a mother dying when he's four years sold about how they left Dundee but we don't know what the circumstances were. What happened we. We really don't know anything but it's so fun to get the little clues. Almost makes makes you want to fill in a back story. You know we got a lot of good clues in this one all the Scotland stuff and the girl who didn't even play the harp. It could be slate. 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IEP DOT com slash sleet money okay emily. What's your favorite line. there's so many do the insult who writes the insult. I do WanNa we know that anyway this is Roman to Raya admiring her and he says you're kind of like a peppy fun gun set to milk with like a lean and woman he branding thing that works well with the Fitbit Moron whatever people on Again Fun Gun God tacitus just all killer no filler with Ah Greg's complete inability to make conversation with anyone like that that yeah. I mean even Tom. Way that bizarre like not quite sexual relationship and you'll say oh can. I just mentioned about Tom this this. There's one really jumped out at me for the with this is the first time in succession like seasons one and two where homewares and not authorship suit remember how like that whole dinner party where they were mailing looking like a mid western briefcase and a night. Italy Dundee and it's like well fitting comfortable like good expensive looking like who wait times looking good all of a sudden the Tom home fashion choices shit and also he pins shift down when he sees her with the actor and he makes her uncomfortable coming coming up. I was so impressed with Shiva in that moment because she could have handled the whole. She made it so obvious yes she could've. I just played that so much better it was because you had an entire affair that she was able to yes she had that high and quite the end until her wet airy but but otherwise right yeah but still. I thought she could have done a lot better. I agree and also Tom. Defending Raya. was I thought unusual because usually they're such a team the two of them Tom and shift of but he says to her like maybe it's good for me well. He's always been. It's not gonNA be Kinda. It's obvious and I can be good for him. He is he did was taken aback back when she was when. Logan said she was going to be the next one. He's like Oh. I thought that I thought we were in it for me so I think he's always I mean. I think like all all of them. He's not really concerned about anybody else. It's not really true love with chef. I don't think so I can't quite shoes. I really love love when Roman refers when Kendall starts. It's Reverend Reverend Ken W is but I think I think the one that that really stuck with me was logan just looking with a look of sheer disdain his son and going. Maybe a fucking right how word I know what team I supported all my fucking life. Maybe I support kill monitor right. He got the distaste dripping and we're just like okay. I I guess he's not going to bail them out. Who knows man in the The candle wrap which I've watched several times now they record on the action shots to the flash to him a lot. Mike what is this what is in the rest of the board the rest of the paddock -secutive who don't mute when they're supposed to do. Oh g UH AH. We're not playing along at all now that was I mean. It's it's it was maybe the most humiliating moment of the whole all series. I think maybe even more than on the floor because it was not as overt because he was willingly you've broken. This man is that he's willingly willingly getting up in front of everyone. He knows just horrible. Yeah I agree. I agree I mean he. He did shit his bed. Also so this season like it's just been one humiliation after the next yeah maybe that is more mentioned the humiliation of being dragged into the house. If the kid who you killed I mean like yeah well. That wasn't humiliating. It was torture psychological punishment and torture but rightly rightly so I mean it wasn't like Oh. We're going to be so mean to you because you're GONNA have to face the fact that you killed someone. That seems appropriate. Actually it's appropriate in that. He's coming face to face with the consequences consequences of his actions but Logan was doing it in revenge for Kendall challenging him on rarest in revenge for Kendall Daring to date NAM. Yes for all of us stay. It's not like moral and I think it's important for you to understand what the processes of your action right now. He's doing. Don't fucking tell me I can't sleep with this exactly right this sleeping with each other. I mean Logan Ran Kaiser a prick tees but I guess he just meant that about the drinking drinking but Burundi they're not sleep. That's what I thought yeah. That's what I wasn't sure why was saying practice but when he has sued sleep over and she says oh I wasn't expecting that. Aren't we assuming that that's already happening going out to dinner with her four times a week. I mean this is. I mean it's accession. No one has sex so we don't know it is true handle in in yeah except the Kendall and thank God to see that Oh yeah no one wants to see Kendall having sex literally. No one would rather see him wrapping. Yeah this is what was your favorite lane. I had so many I think a two phased snowflake with commoner address I uh-huh from shift to Raya I thought that was quite good and the only the other one was look at you fitting right in like a camp counselor and my but when I was twelve well that was good so I think that he really Roman really has a good. Somebody's writing good stuff for him. This is the the energy. DNA man no one no one on television rights. You know those kind of lines if you took the insults out of the show. Would there be a show. I don't think so no there's most redeeming thing that they know how to do is really come up. It's brilliant. It's like bringing in her into the family million at her but now you're one of US comic insults out. Would it be billions and you. You can tell the way that you can tell the rare is not part of the family is that she doesn't have her insult game on yes. She doesn't do insult fun. She's also asking people genuine questions about how he's going to flatter her way into the fancy whereas the family insults the way she's adapted tapped into the pierces. She made her whole career working her way into one family that has this kind of waspy niceness aesthetic and now she's in a very different kind of family business and she doesn't quite know how to handle it. I can't wait to see what happens when it all falls apart. When the cruise thing comes out in the weasel start scam I think she's going to be forced to do something so jerry is the new face is going to get ripped to shreds so is that what happens in the next episode the the weasel comes mm south on national TV and the new face you to take yeah I mean she's she can't. She's not going to distance herself. We got four more episodes this season right right. I think by the end of the episode ten by two more episodes from now Raya will begun and and we will have reset to like who in the family is GonNa. Take the reins next right. That's where they are going to land. At the the end of every season so ray has two more episodes to go my prediction. I don't think that she can be long for this world and I mean how long can you book Holly Hunter Center for this is a good that's another. That's probably the key. Hbo They can afford it from but I think that she I mean if she is the rich the Nino. Oh character which you have to say that she is so the whole. Pierce family is based on the Bancroft family who owned Dow Jones which the Wall Street Journal which is where I used to work when Rupert Murdoch made his bid to buy that paper there was a CEO of Dow Jones at the time. I'm who had who whose name was Richton he no he was he was had a working class upbringing. He was not a Boston Blueblood of the kind of Bancroft the variety and he played both sides of the deal and ended up having a lot of conversations with bankers on the Murdoch side and giving them a little bit of insight into how to divide the Bancroft family which had cousins upon cousins and lots of historical divisions and so the you know the finale of the last last season which reveals Holly Hunter for having played both sides is very much based on the Nino. He couldn't have survived inside of newscorp escort because he had served his purpose and now he was gone and so I think hustling you're just GonNa pay money went away. He got paid lots of money and he went to go work for a private equity firm. Always Suray will be okay. Maybe I think she'll be like just logistically like why Logan would want someone like that to run his company. She's clearly to face like she was she wasn't is that like that's a good. She's strategic so so that's like a did he and I actually can kind of. I think we can all possibly relate to this a little bit that he is only going in the direction of someone someone because he is avoiding someone else so he's annoyed with in a success with his ship and so he's got this other person now. He's annoyed with her now. He's annoyed with Ray and obviously Kendall had his moment and he sort of brought Roman in and then he throws Roman out of the office when Kendall comes back and so it's just who does he. He hate less in the moment and so it's I mean I do strategy there. I don't I mean there's also there's also sex appeal appeal right. There's also a thing between that he likes. He's there's a certain amount of what he said to Kendal in the previous episode he said I'm construct your other ones and there's a measure of that going on US champion because the thing about the other person that's really about him but the the other thing that happens in in this episode is a bunch of Weird foreshadowing when Canada's his desperate attempt to try and join in sort of avenge Astana staying when he's attacked needs shoutout to rare for planning a wonderful funeral I mean memorial but then at the end when Masha is furious at Logan she goes God forbid. I should miss the plaque your shiny little gravestone and these like intimations mation of more talented becoming more and more explicit okay. You told me nothing about you. Stepping aside why you folks something here I didn't like it when you come into the guy should so my the company. You hear what you want to hear then you punish me for something. I didn't say I'm the judgment this U. P. carried this of me worship port hiring. Excuse me as time for the plaque off I'm going washer. Don't be fucking stupid who supply God forbid shy so one of the interesting things about season two is the logan has been in halo shape. He's been like unless he's not one where he's all right. Hang on he had all been in full control of his faculties basin me old seasoning like suddenly he did throw up in a glass at the valley yeah. He didn't remember his she. She makes that scrapbook for him should make some ascribe correct his houses well. I couldn't tell one rich people's rich person once you have a couple of dozen houses like how do you remember the Eh. You remember that time when John McCain was asked when he was running for president. How many houses do you own and he couldn't remember here is like six seven? Ah who among us have the whole show isn't it about it's about an old man man who can face dying. That's it that's the bottom line and I feel like that. What is everything is really about though probably know he's that's it. That's that's the only thing that motivates him is avoiding that fate and this was the whole all. This was was confronting his own mortality going back to his hometown. He can't even go into his childhood house. It doesn't want to think about the past at all too painful but also you have that kind of businessmen view on life that you know everything has happened in the past is a sunk on cost and the only thing that Israel is going to be able to create future. Why does he say everything in the past is made up because I think that's how he thinks like you know he. He is not one for introspection. You know he's not one for dwelling on the past. He just moves forwards because partly because the pastas so painful to him to look. We don't know what happened to rose. We don't know how he got the scars on his back. You know there's a lot of right real pain in his Boston. He deals with it by just e calling facon calling it yeah just a fun fact there was a period of time when Rupert Murdoch was going to write a memoir of his own where he was going to sit down and do his own autobiography and he found it's so I don't WanNa painful in the sense of he had too many scars that he didn't want to look back but he found it impossible to actually engage in that process process of going back and retelling his own life story that he scrapped the project and ended up never doing it and so it's very it's very recognizable that that there is no way to be able to write. It's slogan driving up to the House. He grew up in a dozen people standing outside of it and he can't get out of the car just drives right right on. That's what the past is to him so Gabe you you see where this way. The season is headed right. I mean I think razz got two more episodes and then she's she's toast and we're back to like which my kids am. I going to hand this to none of them. I really don't know what's going to happen. I don't I don't have a solid prediction. Prediction episode nine has to be the weasel right coming out on TV and suddenly like that. Shit Storm uh-huh hits the fan I mean can tell us the title of episode nine because like when we were talking about this is done the we knew it was going to be like that is what what has to happen because if that hits on DC yeah these hearings congressional hearings interesting is that of course it has to be the weasel because it hits on all the things it's Ray which touches Marcia then we also have the Greg's Greg decision about whether it's you know that's that's. That's obviously what I mean like. The minute you say Greg's congressional testimony. You know has to happen you. Can you imagine that scene. I just like Oh and then he paid and then Logan's going to convince them to lie. I bet perfect. Maybe that's a bridge too far all right so I think that is what we have to look forward to for episode nine and I think that's going to be the COO leary threatening us next week on you. Sir You all WanNa live this grimm. It's going to be a good one next week on sleep money succession

Logan Kendall Kendall Raya Jerry Hall Greg Roman Rupert Murdoch connor Ray Marcia Marcia Marcia Dundee Emily Peck Masha Logan Roy John McCain UN Arthur Miller Ryan Little Logan Boston CEO
Day 741: Trump says he'll let DOJ decide whether to release Mueller's report

The 11th Hour with Brian Williams

44:06 min | 1 year ago

Day 741: Trump says he'll let DOJ decide whether to release Mueller's report

"Breaking news tonight. Donald Trump says he'll allow the Justice department to decide on the release of Robert Muller's report. It's a major pronouncement on one of the big questions swirling around the sprawling investigation. Plus a Muller court filing. Today reveals how the Russians have been swiping information from the Muller team turning around and using it to wage a disinflation campaign against the investigation. And would this story of an entirely different? If Donald Trump had simply followed Chris Christie's advice, the former New Jersey Governor here with us tonight. The talk about what else he's written in his new book as the eleventh hour gets underway on a Wednesday evening. Well, good evening. Once again from our NBC news headquarters here in New York day, seven forty one of the Trump administration and the breaking news, we're covering tonight. As we come on the air is in the form of quotes from the president in a new interview just out tonight. Some of it is about the Muller investigation in an exclusive interview with the daily caller Trump was asked about whether he'll sign off on the final Muller report. He responded this way. Quote, they'll have to make their decision within the Justice department. They will make the decision as to what they do. I could've taken a much different stance. I could have gotten involved in this. I could've terminated everything. I could've ended everything I've chosen to stay out of it. But I had the right to as you know. I had the right? If I wanted to to end everything I could have just said that's enough. Many people thought that's what I should do. Trump was also asked whether he talked to his acting attorney general Matt Whitaker about. The eventual end of the Muller inquiry earlier this week. You may recall Whitaker said the investigation was close to completion. Tonight. Trump responded about it wrapping up, quote, I never spoke to him about that. I would say that after almost two years at certainly should be processed crimes or process, you know, questions the answer is different than what you thought it might be. And some people say they lost their memory or a lack of memory, which a lot of people can understand that too. We also have brand new revelations tonight from special counsel Muller about the latest effort to disrupt his investigation apparently coming from Russia itself. Federal prosecutors say the Russian swiped information that Muller's team had provided to a company called concord management owned by a Russian oligarch. The guy known as Putin. Chef concord was one of the Russian entities that Muller accused last February of helping to orchestrate interference in our election. The information from. Colors team was given over to Concord's lawyers here in the US as part of what lawyers called the discovery process in this case now the feds allege that Russians took it alternate. Then distribute it on social media and used it against us in the new court documents filed light today, the special counsel accused the Russians of creating a Twitter account in October twenty eighteen and posting lives claiming quote, we've got access to the special counsel Muller's pro database enjoy the reading Muller's team says the Russians actions were quote part of a disinformation campaign aimed apparently at discrediting ongoing investigations into Russian interference in the US political system. Earlier today on this network. Former Justice department spokesman Matt Miller explain why this latest Muller filing is so critical. Muller has been fighting turning over sensitive discovery turnover. 'non-sensitive information to them under protective order. It was supposed to stay only with the attorneys and other people in the company it showed up on Twitter in a Russian disinformation campaign along with fabricated materials making clear that all of this information that he's turning over the lawyers. It's going to the Russian government and being used again against the US that right there brings us to the president's reaction to what his own intelligence chiefs told congress about the threats from Russia, North Korea and Iran among others. The Intel leaders assessments were very different from the picture of the president has painted, and he didn't hesitate to point out on Twitter multiple times, he feels he's been successful in dealing with some of this nation's biggest adversaries while continuing to push for a wall on the southern border. But he was particularly incensed by the Intel chiefs conclusion that Iran was in compliance with the nuclear deal, quote, the intelligence people seem to be extremely passive and naive. Leave when it comes to the dangers of Iran, perhaps intelligence should go back to school. Those attacks came out just hours before Trump had his intelligence briefing in the Oval Office. What must have been like tonight? A former CIA director who has given those briefings to other presidents weighed in on the Gulf between Trump and his own appointees his own intelligence community. I think the best way that you have to deal with this president is for him to bear the consequences of his rejection of their information and the way he bears the consequences is that those are matters than turn sour on him because he's failing to lead this country with regards to national security issues. Well with that let's bring in our leadoff panel on a Wednesday night. Harry Littman DOJ veteran who's former US attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general under President Clinton. Joe Kovin White House reporter for the Associated Press, and Malcolm Nance veteran of naval intelligence special operations homeland security with thirty five years working in counter, Intel and intelligence also happens to be the author of the plot to destroy democracy. How Putin and his spies are undermining America and dismantling the west of book that could be updated on a weekly basis if the author so chose well. All of you back to the broadcast jail. I have to ask you in the upside down world of twenty nineteen how big news is it that the president said tonight in effect he's gonna follow procedure. I mean that was very notable. Especially in the interview with the daily caller tonight. We haven't seen the full transcript yet. But the president does seem very clearly say that he's not going to interfere with the release of the final report that's contrary to what we've heard very recently, even from his attorney Rudy Giuliani who said just in recent days that the that the legal team would want to correct in his words, and somehow alter that final report before it made its way to congress, or before it was publicly released also cautioned that this is very first we've heard from the president really suggesting that this is the direction we haven't yet heard this backed up by his legal team. And it's still very very unclear the extent to which this report will actually become public. You know, you've got Muller who I? Needs to submit it, obviously to the DOJ, and then it'll be a decision there that's made about whether it should be released and how it should be released a summary point four bullet points. What kind of information would then be disclosed to congress and potentially the public? But we also know is that this is an administration. This is a president and his outside legal team who have worked now ceaselessly for the last point number of years to try to discredit the mullahs report before it's come out. And so I don't think this is a fight that has finished yet. Hurry lydman. Here's why this is important in a few days. I'm guessing if the confirmation process goes as they're expecting in the Senate, we're going to have a new attorney general name William bar and say what you will about him say what we said about him during the hearings. He is mostly and 'institutionalised. This is his second go round in this job. And he seems to have answered a lot of the critical questions to the satisfaction of most members of the committee. So if you don't find wiggle room, Harry and. The president says tonight in this interview is this again same question as Jill does this past as good news that the president of the United States vows to follow procedure. It does. And I think the president of the United States has concluded there may not be wiggle room. It's obviously wrong grievously wrong. For to say he has not protested before. Of course, he has. But I think this decision is an early dividend of the nomination in perspective car confirmation of Bill bar bar famously said in his hearings when asked about Giuliani's threats to kind of monkey with things that will not happen. And I think Trump and his team realizes with bar stewarding that report they're not going to be able to Pierce the DOJ process. And they're they have to sit back and let it happen. And so he's just saying what bars perspective confirmation makes manifest. Hey, malcolm. Let's talk about this disinformation campaign by the Russians. This gets into your your cockpit. Living in a democracy has. It's pitfalls sometimes and when you're special counsel because we have laws on a system, you have to hand over to the other party some of your evidence in this case, it gets spun around and gussied up and polished into disinflation to hurt us by the Russians. See all of your previous writings on the subject, correct? Absolutely. I mean, this is a good example of how the Russians I have no concerns over the legality of anything that they're doing this is disinformation warfare, pure and simple. They take the information that they find using the American system of Justice through discovery, they use that information handed off to the Russian intelligence services who processed that and turn it into disinformation creating a Twitter account. So that they could feed that information back to the US and international news media, and then try to discredit the special counsel who is going after the, you know, the people who were there sponsor sponsored them Donald Trump and try to discredit the entire process. This is very old school intelligence operations the way the Soviet Union used to do. But most importantly, they've added a little twist to it that I think is very interesting. They are not only. Stealing. This are taking this information and not caring about the legality of it. They're taking this information. And they are using it to essentially feed the US news media the way that they tried to do with WikiLeaks in the Hillary Clinton emails hoping that we would think that it's salacious enough that we would ignore the way that the information was taken from concord management and brought around and then introduced false information into it, which is called black propaganda. So be interesting to see what's true. And what's not in these than the their releases? Yeah, they added a little Wikipedia type branding to it to make it sound extra salacious. Hey, harry. You're a lawyer, and we're not. So I have a two parter for you number one. I to those of us who are lay people and think it's a credit card. Explain what discovery is. Start there. Okay discovery. First of all, most importantly is very different and very limited in the criminal context. It's not the full bodied in Iraq, toys, and depositions that you may be used to if you ever in the civil trial is the provision of very limited and specified information, essentially, the evidence that the government is going to use at trial and evidence that might exculpate the defendant to the defendant and here, Malcolm makes a great point. What's basically happened is concord as a company has submitted itself to the jurisdiction of the court. But the defendants have not the individuals. And so the the prospect and risk is that the company which really can't be punished very severely in the United States gets this information funnels it to the individuals and they use it to make mischief. But discovery itself is is is limited and subject to a lot of regulation by the court as. The court did here in pudding real restrictions on who could see it. And when and how are notice you still manage to slip some Latin in there? Okay. Harry part two of the question is this first person I read this weekend on social media with a theory about the Roger stone indictment was our mutual friend. Joyce Vance who said the reason they're bringing him in on these seven initial counts is because of discovery if they have weightier stuff against him. That means they will have to expose potentially sources and methods. And this is the problem with a counterintelligence investigation. Do you? Concur. I think it's one of the reasons and generally speaking, you're having here the whole nuances of the hybrid counterintelligence versus versus criminal investigation. So I agree with Joyce that probably wouldn't happen and tell later on in the process, but I think it's. Also, the case that they expect to maybe get more. And the biggest thing they could get to bolster the conspiracy charge when it comes. If it comes is stones cooperation himself that that would be the big bounty. But there are many reasons I think that that Muller who suggested in the indictment. He has a conspiracy case in the offing would want to really wait until it's totally tied up and strong. Joyce says, but other tactical reasons as well to have his cards all set before he lays them down. So Jill check of the calendar shows it was two years ago today. Sally, Ann Yates was fired. And looking back on it that kind of started. Well, it started a lot. And it's been a lot. It's been a long two years that also started a kind of period of attack against the FBI fast forward to today. The president is asking that the tactics and methods used to storm the stone home in Fort Lauderdale, Florida pre dawn last Friday be at least looked at looked into. Yeah. The same day that the president suggested that the US intelligence officials go back to school because he believes that he knows more about Iran than they do later that day. You've got the president in this interview with the daily caller suggesting that maybe the FBI tactics need to be looked at or that he would look at the FBI tactics. Once again, because he was clearly very thrown by the way that Roger stone was brought into custody that day, which has been described as know pretty standard way of approaching somebody when you're concerned that they might do something to compromise evidence. If you're concerned that they might. Flee in some way. And this is a pattern that we've seen with Trump where he has also expressed alarm even people he's he's wound up turning against with Michael Cohen. For instance. He's really privately and publicly dwelled on the idea that the way that the FBI operated in apprehending him in raiding his office reading his hotel room. He thought that that crossed a line and crossed the line into something that was revealing their tagging towards him. This idea that the president has that law enforcement the intelligence agency, it should be reflecting. What he wants them to reflect as should be behaving in the way that he wants them to behave has been this pattern that we've seen throughout his administration and something that is very troubling to a lot of critics Malcolm quick question before we go where you heartened by the fact that the Muller team in their quiet way shouted from the mountain tops today that look this stuff is being turned around and used against us in this information campaign. Well, I wouldn't say that I'm heartened, but it validates what many people have been suspecting all along, you know, when you're talking about dealing with Dmitry promotion, the head of you know, concord management who also runs a mercenary organization in Syria that tried to attack you a special forces. He is the dirty tricks operative the Eric prince of Ladimir Putin. And so I think Robert Muller by exposing his activities today can get further restrictions against them. Hopefully, and certainly now use this information against them. I'm not particularly sure whether that's going to work with the Russians. They don't care one way or the other. But certainly I hope that this will be able to be part of the process that shows that Americans have coordinated with groups like concord management, certainly are not dealing with people who are using the US legal processes straight. My goodness. All these people you get to cover in your line of work. Harry Littman Jill Calvin, and Malcolm Nance are thanks to the three of you. Turning to the broadcast as usual coming up his public schedule nearly empty, but his Twitter feed is running at capacity. Most days look at what the president's been up to since his last public appearances appearance with none scheduled for tomorrow. And then later, former New Jersey Governor, Chris Christie is here he'll talk about his time in and around the Trump team and why he thinks so many people might be lying about Russia. The eleventh hour just getting started on this Wednesday night. For the fifth straight day. Now, our president huddled in the White House with no open press coverage events on his schedule. He did find time today for an interview with the daily caller, but the president has not been seen in public since announcing that temporary deal to reopen. The government on Friday in the rose garden that means no meetings with the congressional negotiators working on that deal to keep the government open past fifteen February Trump has been spending a lot of time on his phone. Here's a small sample of the more than forty tweets. He sent out since the weekend, including this threat today. And we quote, if the committee of Republicans and Democrats now meeting on border security is not discussing or contemplating a lot of proper names here a wall or physical barrier. They are proper name wasting their time. His warning seems to have gone unheeded Democrats announced today they will quote, push for a smart effective border security posture one that does not rely on costly, physical barriers. Meaning there's no sign of potential deal. Quite yet with us tonight Temer Keith White House correspondent for NPR and Franco or Donas White House correspondent for McClatchy newspapers who covers among other things immigration and foreign affairs. Good evening to you. Both first of all tamarin, we should all have people in our lives as loyal as Sarah Huckabee Sanders, who's said in an interview out today. She believes God wanted Donald Trump to be president having established that last week we established during the shutdown his number one priority was the shutdown in this wall. Do you have any idea? What what it is? We can't see in the west west wing this week. I'm holding in his hand is scheduled for tomorrow. Nothing public again, nothing public again, though, there is a meeting with a high ranking Chinese official, and and there have been trade negotiations going on starting today that the president wasn't strictly speaking involved with those also there are. Preparations underway for a state of the union address. Next tuesday. Those typically do involve a lot of preparations though, also typically presidents are seen in public in the days leading up to the state of the union. So, you know, this is not the first time that President Trump has sort of seemed to disappear in recent weeks during the shutdown there were other stretches where where he just seemed to disappear from public view. In some ways, the the wall and the border security fight has a clips everything for this White House, and and the rest of its agenda. Franko timra is right. We have seen these these long spells and he has also felt comfortable to complain. How long he's been cooped up in the White House in Washington what he missed out on over the holidays, you've been pool reporter recently, which normally you're running gunning, you have a huge responsibility to report back to everyone else who can't be part of the tight group of reporters covering the president. What's that been like other than the Maytag repairman? Exactly. I mean, I think I think yesterday I was there all day from the beginning of the day to the end of the day. The only thing that I reported back to the hundreds of reporters who were kind of waiting for any type of information from the from the president was that there was a lunch break. On the end of the day was basically called by four o'clock colleagues are essentially watching botching their watches to see whether there's a marine outside the Oval Office was indicates Trump is working. And they're questioning is he there in the morning is he not in there. There's a lot of questions about it. You brought up the scheduled for tomorrow the meeting with the vice premier the China as well as the American manufacturers he signed an executive order that is a perfect time to have a photo op of the president doing something. This is typically what presidents do bring the cameras in show that the work that he's doing all of that is closed press. It's very interesting and tamra because we had you want and talked about the shutdown in real time. Here's one view of how it went over. Let's just say in America to the west of Washington DC Salt Lake Tribune fifty four percent in a poll would not vote to re elect Donald Trump now usual caveats two years. Out early yet. No identified specific democratic candidate. But they don't get much redder than Utah. And that number does get your attention. Then Utah is a unique state in that it has a large immigrant population, and and has sort of different views on immigration than other deep red states. So that might be affecting it as you saw in Utah. Mia. Love the Republican congresswoman ended up losing in the midterms which was one of those more surprising results. But this is this is not a great time for President Trump his approval ratings in any number of polls are are not where he would like them to be. And and the reality is that we're sort of in this LOL in this time of uncertainty between the longest government shutdown in US history. And what comes next, and it's not clear what will happen President Trump, but many of his allies even will say he lost round one. And now there's this period of time waiting to see what happens in round two. And and whether he is able to hold onto his base is really critically important to him. He's always been super focused on his base and folks in those red states, and and it's not clear if round two doesn't go much better than round one in terms of the. Wall actually being built what what will happen for him and Franco as Tim correctly points out as we enter this kind of face to we also have a preoccupation to our south. And I don't mean to call for a judgment on your part. But what is the latest thinking about what this administration is going to do about the situation in Venezuela? There was this famous moment today, you have to be careful what's written on anything. That's on your person in the era of digital photography Bolton national security advisor in the I'm sorry. Oh, this was Monday in the briefing room with a legal pad mentioning five thousand troops to Colombia on the board. Yes, it's you know, what's happening in Venezuela is pretty incredible and the president and the Trump administration has been pushing so hard on this issue. Trying to help install a new interim government to overthrow Madero. We're reporting that this is this has been going, you know, very quickly. Some in the administration are questioning how quickly it's going actually. But it's very interesting to watch. Because well, Trump has a lot of detractors, actually, he has gotten a lot of support from the international community as well as station bipartisan support on this issue. However that roll out on Monday of the oil sanctions has raised a little bit a few eyebrows. Because some were very concerned that maybe now is not the time to do that it could cause. Ause more problems more humanitarian issues, and essentially they don't want to cause or create another Cuba like scenario where we have an adversary for another sixty years like them are thanks tonight. To two of our returning guests to Tempera Keith to Franco or Donas. Thank you both for coming on the broadcast and coming up, Chris Christie is here with us live in the studio to talk about his new book what he says and doesn't say about Donald Trump and the people around him on the eleventh hour continues. Our next guest mix it up with Nicole Wallace. And this very studio about thirty hours ago, then drank tequila with Stephen Colbert just last night all of it in order to get ready for the eleventh hour, clearly Chris Christie has known Donald Trump going onto decades. He's seen a lot and hurt a lot and writes about some of it in his new book from the first time they met for dinner in two thousand and two when Trump ordered for him to running against each other for president. So without delay with us tonight. Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, the new books full title is let me finish Trump. The Kushner's Bannon, New Jersey and the power of in-your-face politics. I've got to start with ordering for you. Yes. Welcomed by the way. Thank you. It's a weird. I would never in a million years dream of doing it. There's different styles in restaurants. You can finish this line. Try the veal. It's the best in the city. Thank you. I knew I could count on. And you can order, you know, you can order call Amari, your, garlic bread, or or mozzarella sticks for the table. So weird thing to order for some believe me. I thought it was too. I wrote the book win when he did it. He called John George the owner of the restaurant out and said, remember, remember the great appetizer. You may be two of those. And then then entree try Bicket it exactly the same way. We'll take two of those. Yes service to Trump and he walks away. And then it funny. Just order for me. And they said you gotta worry you'll love it. And the funny part of the end of the story is when he doesn't notice that it only eat the scalps. But when I don't eat the lamb, he says, why aren't you eating? And is it not cooked? Right. I said, it's cooked fun. I hate them. And he said why Jordan it? That's unbelievable. That's Matic of what? But but simple Matic at that time. He our first meeting. I think he was trying to I was a sitting US attorney. I think he was trying to impress me. I think he was showing off a little bit. And I think that's what it was. And. He loved that stuff yet eaten. So he thought everyone will love it. And that'd be great. And that's what it was. And it's been a running joke between the two of us. There's two running dinner jokes between the two of us. They're both in the book. There's that one. And then two or three years later, I turned out to be forty five minutes late for dinner one night. Mary Pat was there and on time because she was in the city, there's a big Lincoln tunnel backup. And I didn't get into forty five minutes late, and he was irate. And I'll say Bryant this summer, Mary, Pat, and I had dinner with him Malania and at the White House, and when we showed up he came into the room. There was for six thirty. We were there at six thirty. And he said, this is great. You're here. Not like when you were late for me it and that happens thirteen years earlier never forgot it. Well, I want to extend a conversation that started in this room with Nicole Wallace. You're a prosecutor a process guy, a former fed after all of which we have on this broadcast all the time. And a patriot. Are you? Not remotely curious what everyone is lying about. Are. You not remotely curious why there were Russians in Cleveland at the GOP convention. Well, there's listen, I'm not remotely curious about the Russians and Cleveland because there were all kinds of foreigners in Cleveland as there always are at every national convention. So that doesn't that doesn't bother me. The line bothers me bothers me a lot as somebody who has a former US attorney, you know, hated when people I to us misled us because it costs us time and money and and faith in the system. Now, I also know is US attorney that dumb people and bad people lie for reasons that make no sense that they're all lying about one thing. And they're all in service to one guy. But that's what they're being asked about. And my point to be. If you ask them about the weather, some of these people would have I they're just not good people might Flynn's is not a good guy. But it's not Paul manafort's guy. Look how many bits of evidence do you need from his business dealings to his tax dealings to hiding money. Overseas to pull matter. For is just a bad guy. But Muller doesn't run the national weather service. This is the Russia investigation because it's Russia. And because we think they're thumb was on the scale in our last presidential election. Sure. And they tried to enter the interfered with the election. They tried to move it. I don't think they had any measurable effect on on the election at all on given what they did how much they spent and all the rest of that the problem with what they did was. We don't want anybody messing with our election for for one minute. Let them forever much time. They tried to devote to it and try to infect it. So all this stuff is bad. That's why I've all along said, everyone should leave. Bob Muller loan. Let him do his work. And then I'm come to a conclusion. And and I told the president that and anybody else who listen because in the end, I think he's a fair guy. I think he's direct guy, and I think he'll come to some conclusions. I don't know what they're going to be. But he'll come to them will you as a former fed and one of the people the stories people will learn is your years as US attorney. Vow on this broadcast in front of the world and Donald Trump and whoever else is watching that you Chris Christie will accept the findings of the Muller report. Sure on accept the findings in the report is volunteers got the evidence to support it. And I will assume that Bob will have that. If you put it out because he's a pro, but I will tell you what the the first one of the first things there's maybe uncomfortable about the mower thing was the stone arrest. Why is that? Now, you have you have carried out arrests as a US attorney times, you know, standards and practices and practices on that is if there's not evidence of imminent destruction of evidence, which we don't know. Well, he said that there wasn't and that there were no weapons that whenever I did a raid that is US attorney it was because of weapons if we knew through our investigation that someone that even a weapon in their house a firearm, then we sent the people in that way for two reasons. One to make sure that our FBI as harm to to to try to make sure that the person didn't harm himself or herself. Because if you're coming into be arrested, that's a traumatic moment and some people in the past of turn to suicide in that moment. So you try to go with that kind of force to be able to do that. I don't see evidence of either one of those things here. Do you think find out about it someday? Well, I think we will Lindsey Graham talking about wanting to to ask them questions, the FBI director about whether he authorized it, and if so on what basis that I think those questions should be as because anything that we do whether it's tweets from the president attacking an investigation or overzealous enforcement by law enforcement that diminishes people's faith in the Justice system is a bad thing for our democracy. Let me ask you about Chris Wray who you recommend it as FBI director. He was there at that hearing yesterday Gina Haskell at CI who this month celebrates thirty four years of service for the federal government. If you're the Madero regime, the Kim Jong UN regime or the Putin regime, and you wake up this morning to see the US president differing with his Intel chief. Chiefs trolling their intelligence, isn't that a great day for you. Listen, I'm sure they enjoyed that. But on the other hand, I don't think it's going to change one whit of what happens with Gina hospital work, Chris Wray or Dan Coats. I think what they all three them showed yesterday is that they are professionals who have taken an oath, and they are resolved not to be effected by political pressure. Little weird to live in a country where they disagree with the commander and chief, listen, listen. Of course, it is because he appointed them, and it's to me, it's not the right thing to do. And I've expressed that to the president over time directly because I have faith in folks like genus hospital, and I know Chris Wray, very well. And know, he's doing a great job as director of the FBI is a man of extraordinary integrity. But because they're both that way I could tell you that they won't be affected by this. And you saw the video Chris rate did on Friday during the shutdown speaking to his people letting them know he was standing up for them. And he was speaking out on their behalf. Half. That's the kind of leader he is. And he won't let he won't let the FBI be affected by any politics within the politics for the White House or from Capitol Hill. Why don't you think Donald Trump believes those three people who testified yesterday a work for him hard for me to say, Brian? I really don't know. I don't know. I don't know that there is a there's a lot school reason to explain that. If I can ask how often do you talk to them. And does he call you or you call him we usually speak once every couple of weeks, and it goes both ways. All right. Chris Christie has agreed to stay with us largely because we've taken away his car and to walk in New York. We'll continue our conversation about these two guys right after this. This is the book. This is the author sitting across from us here at Chris Christie remains in our studio. Let's do. Rapid fire. Lightning round. Right. Name association. Alexandria. Oh, Cossio Cortes socialist. That's it that was intertidal title. She ran as a democratic socialist. Well, that's it. I don't want to do this quick right now. And it really pound it out if you want fallen direction this comes in three sizes Howard Schultz run Howard run. Let's go. I'll get the t shirt. Get him in the race. Finally, Kamla Harris. Smart lady. I've better few times number of the former prosecutor community. Yes. Smart lady. Okay. Why do you keep going back to the notion of maybe entertaining working for this crowd Trump incorporated because I love my country. There are other ways to serve your country. Sure. And I served my country and a lot of different ways. But you know, what this is my profession. And so, you know, I feel like every night when I go to bed. I thank God for all the gifts that I've been given the health of my family and our success and the love we have free other. And I know that it's only possible in large measure not only just through the grace of God. But because we live in this amazing country. And so and dirty enough, Brian as you, and you know, I am to believe that when a president United States picks up the phone calls, you at least have to listen now, I've said no multiple times this president for multiple jobs because I didn't think I either was suited for the job or I just wasn't interested in doing that. Particular job. So it's not like I'll say, yes. To anything. In fact, I've said no to almost everything to be fair. Your buddy, Jared has said no to you in on a couple of times. It's right. And the only thing I've said yes to the president on so far the opioid commission, which I feel passionate about and I'm glad that we did what have you been successful in changing this president's mind on going all the way back to the campaign number of different things like convincing him to lay off judge Curiel and knock that stuff off to lay off the cons and stop that whole lot of salt image was Josh you're and and that's funny. You read in the book, it was the family that brought me into talk to them at those times on judge Curiel vodka on on the cons of his Jared who called me and said, we think you'll listen to you come and talk to him. And so we'll start with the campaign and doing that to changing debate prep into something that was much more professional and much more useful, which I think made him a better performer in the second and third debate convincing him not to. Rise to the bait during the debates every time at the talk about the things he wanted to talk about a pathway to success in that regard. And you mentioned Chris Wray before I advocated very very hard for Chris Wray to replace Jim Komi after Tim had been fired and he listened to me on that one. And I think despite whatever concerns he may have from time to time he has told me too that he thinks Chris is doing a really good job all the evidences that Americans should feel very good about having Chris Wray, very secure the FBI. Do you think this president will organically complete his first term? Do you think he's susceptible to primary challenges? I believe you will finish his first term. And I don't believe today that he is susceptible to a primary challenge. Now. He's underwater in Utah. I understand that. But when you look at the numbers just amongst Republican voters, which will be the only people will be voting in the primaries. He's still at seventy to eighty percent approval rating. So there's not a lot of room at the moment for challenger. Now. Anybody who has ambition in that regard? We'll be keeping close eye on those numbers and the president's got two years now to make his case for reelection. And before you can be reelected. You must be renominated. Now, if that were today, he's clearly the nominee for the Republican party, and he will be our Representative in the twenty twenty general election, but everyone's going to keep an eye on those things and more importantly, the president should be thinking about what are the things. I need to do every day to build my. Case that I have made a better America. And I deserve another four years. And if you focuses that way that I think he has a chance to be re-elected if he is scattered and doesn't have good people around him that it's gonna make that very very difficult. We have promised to governor to return his car if he waits through one more he's agreed to do right back with more to pay for the parking cancer. Here's the book. Here's the author. We've returned his car and paid the parking Zun ready to go. I'm in in the studio yesterday with Nicole Wallace. You talked about life being full of defeats and your book your forthright about them starting as a young man chapter of your life. People heretofore have known about. And that is being a catcher in baseball. I should add that among your spectacular children. You have raised to spectacular baseball player. I have tell us about that. Well, I was the catcher for my high school baseball team my junior year good enough player that I got elected one of the captains for the beginning of my senior year. And then a guy who I have been friends with through elementary school junior high and had left to go to a private school. And it was an outstanding athlete and a great catcher decided because our team was going to be so good that his last semester of high school that he would transfer from the private school back to the public school. And he took my job and I had to live with. Watching my team go twenty eight and two guys have been playing with since I was seven years old and win the state championship number one in our state. And it was one of the hardest things I ever had to do at that point in my life, incredibly disappointing because I worked so hard towards that year. But what some people urging me to quit because he thought it was unfair. When it happened to me. And but my mother said to me, you're not a quitter and go in there and do what you can do to make the team better. And she convinced me, and I and I stayed hung in with the team we won the state championship. And I learned a lesson about the fact that all my all my teammates, still admired me, I still was able to contribute in a lot of different ways. And I and it taught me that you can't get back up and keep fighting and that also will play into your next chapter which you ain't saying much about now. I mean, let me finish is enough of a clue right? I mean, I still think I'm done yet. In many respects, fifty six years old. And I'm not ready to hang it up. And I feel like I still have a lot of things to say a lot of things to contribute. I don't know how that will manifest itself. Brian. I really don't not being coy like the Republican president right now. And I told you I don't think anybody can beat him in a primary. The only job I'm really interested in for running for elective office as president and the one I think I'm best suited for. So if that comes about opportunity comes again, I have a chance to run and win. I'd consider it. But otherwise, I hope to find another way to contribute besides just to my family and their financial wellbeing. I can't do endorsements but you can best Mexican food and seaside New Jersey Lewis the best Mexican food. You know is right on the seaside heights. Boardwalk Macy's can't spicy canteen. I hope Wayne is watching you better be to mention that's huge see it down. I'll see at the shore. Thank you. Because down the shore are everything's all right. That's right. I heard that and lyrics to a song somewhere. Chris christie. Our guest tonight coming up. I'll look back at something said forty five years ago today, we'll play you that tape from our archives. When we come back. We're back last thing before we go tonight. The state of the union address as delivered by a president under criminal investigation with his administration facing an urgent and excess dential threat. This is not a preview of next Tuesday night. This is in fact, a chance to look back on another man at another time. This is Richard Nixon January of nineteen seventy four in fact on this very day forty five years ago, and this turned out to be the living definition of wishful thinking, I believe the time has come to bring that investigation and the other investigations at this matter to an end one year of Watergate. What we said about wishful thinking that was January of seventy four forty five years ago today. Nixon was speaking to a joint session of congress controlled by Democrats, all of it both chambers. Senate and house Nixon was gone by August of that year, Gerald Ford whose ambition in life had been to be Republican speaker of the house was sworn in as our next president the rest, they say is history, and that's our broadcast on a Wednesday night. Thank you. So very much for being here with us. Good night from NBC news headquarters in New York. Hi, it's Stephanie rule. If you love MSNBC where your heart on your sleeve gear up with t shirts. Hoodies hats and more from Belgian rule and all of your favourite MSNBC shows at MSNBC store dot com.

President Trump president Governor Chris Christie United States Robert Muller FBI US attorney Ladimir Putin Twitter Muller New Jersey Intel Malcolm Nance congress White House concord management Russia New York Harry Littman Jill Calvin America
Fed Cup & Monte Carlo Re-Lived: Navratilovas Homecoming, Musters Controversial Comeback

The Tennis Podcast

1:21:41 hr | 3 months ago

Fed Cup & Monte Carlo Re-Lived: Navratilovas Homecoming, Musters Controversial Comeback

"Hi this is Marion Bartoli Mats Wilander. This is Mary Carillo. Thundering am lighten Hewitt. I'm Andy Murray. Hi I'm Lucy Holtz. Hi I'm Henry. Holt were from Brooklyn New York. And you're listening to the tennis podcast. Thank you Lucy and Henry from Brooklyn. What a fantastic intro. We've ever had a better than that. I mean we had exquisite. Didn't we were the other week? But come on Catherine. That was pretty good isn't it? Yeah I left that we're going to be out of jobs. Seen by the sounds of things splendid job Lucy and Henry also. We'd like to just say hello to Paul in Washington as well and Sally Ann who said send us the loveliest emails last couple of that have really given us a boost and just just wish them the best and wish you the best out there as you find your route through lockdown wherever you are in the world and we're here to keep you company here on the tennis podcast wants more. We've got loads of plans. For the coming weeks. And today we are going back in time because it is tennis relief to time once again. We're going to be going back to nine hundred eighty six and the Fed Cup final between Martina Navratilova Cova incredible story. That is that we'll tell you all about. We'll also go back to nineteen ninety-five with Boris Becker. Taking on Thomas Muster in monte-carlo because it would have been Monte Carlo final weekend yes today and it would have been fed cup finals weekend. Yes today but of course not to be however we are going to be reliving. Those classic matches I I. Let's just catch up on the news since we were last week. And there's been plenty of it live. A Cup has been canceled but tennis is restarting domestically. It seems at the moment because the has been an exhibition setup. In Germany reports Simon Briggs in which Dustin Brown is going to be taking part the rough on the Dow Academy is proposing to use itself as a campus in which some of the players can stay in compete against each other. And this morning. I saw Patrick Mara Takasu on five. Live breakfast on BBC radio over here in the UK. Talking about the ultimate tennis showdown which David Goffin bete-noire Perr Anaconda copper in are going to take part with all sorts of considerations given to the fact that social distancing needs to be employed. Still and they're going to have just a single CHARON PA they're going to have a system for the balls so that the net use the same ones and Yeah we'll find out whether that actually works. I've got mixed feelings on the ultimate tennis showdown. I can see the plaza. Struggling people in Tennyson in all sports and all walks of life are just desperate to get started again. It feels pretty early to me it to be talking about this particular initiative. It's IT'S MID. May that it's GonNa take place I applaud the entrepreneurial attitude and an instinct desire to do something that can help create some business for for tennis tennis players and put something on TV screens. But and yes. I take on board every Patrick saying about all the the sort of considerations that will give to keep people at a safe distance but given that the have canceled tennis and WTI CANCELLED TENNIS UNTIL MID June Wimbledon. Not taking place and no tennis is taking place. Yeah it feels a little bit some uncomfortable to me to be talking about starting something up ahead of time. I didn't know what you think. Yeah it feels incredibly premature and we should probably be celebrating the prospect of tennis any tennis but I have any confidence at all that this event will will actually happen. Be Tennis when it does return. I don't want it to be you know as much as you know. The entrepreneurial effort is is good as you say I don't want it to be entrepreneurial. Individuals grabbing opportunism that gets tennis. Backup money again. I wanted to coodinated cohesive efforts And decision making process in terms of. What's the best way to get the show back on the road and three a Nathan has anything ultimate about what she navid? Gaafar Against Lexie Operan. You can't call it an ultimate showdown. I'm sorry a no by that by now. We'll probably be glued to it. Because it will be professional sport. Beat UCONN COOL. Goffin gopher against Operan and the ultimate showdown silver shadow. When there's nothing else has showed that word you used there Catherine opportunistic did does feel a bit like that to me from Maroteaux blue point of view reading something that he wants to involve in this competition which is to have Players able to express their emotions more freely than ever before. Because THEY WON'T BE. They won't be the same code of conduct that there is on. Hp and I know that something that Moore took Lewis talked about before is wanting to bring into tennis. It feels like he's kind of using that for his own end to to kind of experiment with something. He wants to see one of his motives. I don't know that that made me a little bit. Uncomfortable was at pains to say that The money that is generated will go to the players playing or at least most of it so creates an income for them. I don't think David Goffin and Ben Willpower exactly a few quid Alexey popper may be different. One hundred in the world he is. I must have missed the just giving page. Donate to the cause of Benmaller. Yeah I'm sure maybe toddler for the beard for the beer bid cultivation now. I take the point on the subject of relief tennis players. Generally this has come up last week. As well reported by John Larthon of sports illustrated he revealed details of a letter that Novak Djokovic had written he's the president of the ATP Plays Council to all the players in which he was proposing a support package for plans right two hundred and fifty in the world to seven hundred in the world and he says in his letter that the ATP had been talking about something similar for plans right two hundred fifty two four hundred but jock itch ref on the down and Roger Federer had spoken and they propose that it should be more more depth to that in terms of lower down the rankings. Help given they're hoping that the Grand Slams and the toes also contribute to the fund and what they're proposing from a player's perspective. Is that those rent. One five and the world will pay thirty thousand dollars each five to ten. I guess that should be six to ten. Would be twenty thousand dollars each then. Eleven to twenty fifteen and so on down the rankings. Two hundred ranked player in the world donating five thousand with the hope. Ultimately that would be just over a million dollars created with talk twenty doubles players putting five thousand dollars in each. They're hoping that's grasslands would give half a million H. ATP as well and to eventually raise four to four and a half million dollars to enable them to give ten thousand dollars each to two hundred and fifty to seven hundred in the world. They've also talked about wanting to donate for fifty percent of the prize money at the world tour finals in London. If it happens at the end of this year to the player Relief Fund is there. 'cause calling it and also a chunk of the money out of the prizemoney at the Australian Open if the event doesn't happen the ATP finals so it can create a pulse of money. What is your reaction to those proposes. My first instinct is good on them for actually being assertive to try to do something for the good of their back and create some money that can be used further down the line by those are really struggling. We heard from Liam Brady Fair Shefa Tauber as well took into Catherine a couple of weeks ago of the struggles for plans right the two three four hundreds and alive. I do feel that the the amounts that they they're talking about their needs some further consideration. I would have thought really because plaza ranks low down in that number fifty to one hundred paying five thousand eight as you go down to that level that they're not making that much money whereas Jovic Nidal and Federer that make you know talking to earn two hundred million each in their careers now. I don't think it's absolutely on them to to put all the money in better. Maybe that needs to be thought through a little further. What what what are your immediate reactions? What I think is very difficult to create the perfect system and I think he's a very honorable gesture that they've that they've come up with this off the back and I think it's definitely a good thing but I do think it probably needs some refining as you said as this is certainly in the top hundred who wouldn't be able to pay coach at the moment and the now being asked to check in five thousand I just had a quick look down the rankings players in the hundred sexual as Gianluca measure soon-woo Kwan Hugo daily N. Salvator Caruso Attila by lashing. Not you've just quite recently got into the top hundred there than possibly not going to be in a financial situation that some people in that two fifty to seven hundred ranking range will actually be in because they've just sit down the ranking despite having a good career. Someone like Jack Sock is in their misha's verify Thomas Baluchi. You know so. I don't think ranking is actually an accurate representation of wealth necessarily of your financial status it roughly works. I think they've got a template there. But something that needs to be thought through a little bit more refined at a little bit more. So that the money's going to the people who need it from the people who can afford it. Yeah I mean. There's no doubt that the the detailing and they the details of what's being proposed aunt aunt right. They don't feel rights they are. It's very very blunt instrument. That's being proposed. I love the fact. That kind of every A aid package that I've seen proposed. Andy Murray is eligible to receive the benefits of being ranked one hundred twenty something in the world. But I'm wary of the the pylon that we keep seeing against elite athletes. We've seen it with primarily football. I'M NOT SAYING. They're not eligible for for some criticism. It'll just because this isn't exactly the right thing doesn't mean that the thought process in the the sentiment behind it isn't the the right. One is a balance. I on one hundred. Don't want them to be held up and lauded as saintly individuals just because they're proposing anything. Because I think that sort of natural human instinct and they are in a in a very privileged position to be able to do so but I will say anything. There should be a big pylon and huge wave of criticism. Just because they're they're multi. Multi multimillionaire has an offering thirty thousand I think a reaction a nuanced reaction. Somewhere in the middle is appropriate. But Yeah I mean. I think they're probably doubles players around about twenty in the world that that need help that. There's no way in a position to be able to chuck in chuck in five grand not comfortably anyway. Incidentally Joe Millman ranked forty three in the world tweeted if the concern is to help plas- ranked two hundred and fifty to seven hundred in the world. Why has it taken a global pandemic to realize this? Surely over the many years of top end heavy prizemoney increases. We maybe should have distributed the spread a little more which which is an interesting point and a and it's yet another example of something of this significance perhaps causing pause for thought and maybe things will change as a result of it the other bit of news that We had an overnight. It was from a facebook live session that Novak Djokovic took part in with some other Serbian tennis players and he is reported to have said that he opposes vaccination and if vaccination is required in order to return to the tennis circuit. Well he's going to have a problem with that. We haven't heard all the details of it. He has said reportedly as well. This was translations. Should add that if that is insisted upon. He's going to have a decision to make. But we await clarification of exactly what is issue with the with the vaccine would be so those are the little news items that have come up over. The last few days should also say that live. A Cup has been cancelled over the last week for this year and put back to twenty twenty one also in Boston sensible decision. But what we're GONNA do in the absence of tennis four two in the immediate future. We're going to look back. Once again and go into the archives with tennis relived the first of the matches. We're GONNA talk about comes from the Fed Cup finals in nineteen eighty six. It was the Czech Republic against Czechoslovakia. I should say against the United States of America. Martina Navratilova returning to Czechoslovakia her country of birth with the United States to play against Hanna Mandlikova and all the other Czechoslovakian players nineteen eighty six. Catherine it was July Ronald Reagan was the president of the United States. A lot had happened lot of tragedy that year. Nuclear reactor exploded inch inaudible the challenges space shuttle disaster happen. The Oprah Winfrey show aired. That was one of the disasters but that did happen. The Phantom of the opera first staged Lady Gaga you saying Bolts and certain Rafael and the Dow will born House Walls. Catherine which I will never get enough. If the way. You've just Sidley Dagogo. That's the first time you've ever said it. They never said it to other people before. What did I say like a baby says it? I'm not really updating David coaching right. What's the name of the famous Queen Song? Radio Gaga Right K. C. Tell you right rummy. Starts at brownies safe. Stay from Birmingham. Giga is what we say right big. If a person is the void appoint they give the birds of great people? So take you remember anything about nine. Thousand Eight six do nine. My parents stieg's of the Mace magical year. The lines that I remember nothing nor does Matt. No that was some years away from having been thought I was a teenager and it was a few years before I turned into a lazy. Get a sweet looking in nineteen eighty-six as to around about average height. Who say that's right? So yeah that was. Nineteen Eighty six at Wimbledon earlier in the month of July. Boris Becker defended his title aged eighteen. Martina Navratilova won her seventh Wimbledon title in singles she'd went oversee many doubles. Titles as well beating Hannam Antle Mandak over in the final and it's the rematch. That took place later that month in. Prague that we watched together on Saturday night. We're going to hear from Pam Shriver Martinez doubles partner in a minute. But first Catholic gives a little bit of background so the tie and why it was so significant generally. Yeah we'll have some nine hundred ninety six. I mean it's to very much till the end of the Cold War but it's still very much the depths of If I kn- curtain territory in Czechoslovakia was Much opposed to that and D- Athlete defections from nations behind the Iron Curtain. Were were pretty common. And I think the the whole context and textural that is very well summed up by a couple of statements Here that that Matt picked out in his research first of all the statement from the Czech Tennis Federation. This was in one thousand nine hundred seventy five two weeks after. Martina had left Czechoslovakia they said Martina. Navratilova has suffered a defeat. In the face of Czechoslovak society. Navratilova had all the possibilities in Czechoslovakia to develop her talent but she preferred a professional career and the fat bank account. Obviously there were restrictions in mind cutting countries about being a professional athlete in earnings and travel restrictions all sorts of restrictions on on freedom That was the way the Czech Federation viewed it at the time. they stay kind of putting the The the opposing point across or from perspective from George pendle writing in eighteen. Forty Three magazine. just a few years ago reflecting back on his defection he said in an instant. She had free to so from government minders from having her prize money confiscated from the threat of having her passport taken away but she had also lost family and friends. She had lost her home. It was a strange kind of freedom that she had gained so not a decision. I'm sure that Multi not taken lightly And Yeah going into this Fed Cup tie. She had been unable to return home and see family and friends for more than eleven years since that defection in nineteen seventy five or already put into perspective and we can get further perspective from Pam Shriver Martinez longtime doubles partner. Part of the most successful doubles partnership ever. She can help us set the scene. Catherine spoke to a few days ago. And that's what comes to mind when she thinks of Prague in July nineteen eighty-six. There's a lot of things to the first thing would be the personal tour that Martina gave to Xena Chrissy in myself of of her home area. The club where she grew up on the home-cooked meal Help prepare and just you know getting away from the courts and the in the tournament in really stepping into the life that we had never seen in person that Martina lead that led up to her defection and then to to realize that we were part of at that point in time the most famous athlete. Who'd ever defected from their home country and now going back in and even know nineteen eighty six. It was still for the Iron Curtain lifted so there was still. It was still a really bold move and Martina was not really recognized by the Czechoslovakian Tennis Federation in the way that the other three players were recognized. She was never recognized by name at the tournament But she was recognized by the crowd in probably the most emotional Noisy enthusiastic crowd noises. I've ever heard So it was interesting. Sort of like the establishment was blocking saying her name over the PA system to the crowd but the crowd was just lifting Martinez up and you know showing their support. Applauding you know her skill. Her talent is being already a multiple. Multiple major winner had been number one in the world for a long time leading up to that eighty six Fed Cup tie and be able to share it with Chrissy. The greatest rivalry in the history of sports having played eighty times in singles in so Christie. Was there and I think Kristie being beside Martina back in. Prague was probably the greatest part of that goes. There's so much she just said that. I want to pick up on and get stuck into. She defected in in one thousand. Nine hundred seventy five and and had to write on visa applications that she was stateless until one thousand nine hundred eighty one. I think she got her United States citizenship. This was the biggest sporting events behind the iron curtain in a communist nation outside of the Olympics. It was it was absolutely huge. I believe she'd been denied a visa the year before in one thousand nine hundred eighty five. Was it ever in doubt that that she would make this return Martina. Oh I think I think it was in doubt up until Probably a week or two beforehand like something could have happened if for those of US old enough to remember back to before the Iron Curtains lifted. I mean what what was really for sure if you came from a country like the United States There were a lot of Mysteries unknowns and uncertainties so I I don't think it was until we got there got to the hotel sort of had some normalcy of checking in like other Fed Cup ties. The you know the opening party That made us all realise. Yeah this is this is going to happen. We're going to have an opportunity not just to compete but hopefully be able to win this Fed Cup tie and obviously anything we did. That week was really had. Had Martina in mind. It was really in her honor. We were celebrating her as a player as a champion her bravery coming back to her homeland her being able to see your family again in her homeland. I mean there were so many emotional moments friends from childhood I it was it was crazy. I mean I wish we had iphones back then. In could've recorded more of those behind the scenes moments the way you can. Now you mentioned this is kind of the huge divergence between the reception that Martino from the fans and the people which was just rapturous in woman and the reception she got from from the federation and the authorities were were either. If those elements are surprised to to you to Montana to to the team in terms of the reception that she was going to get. I don't think we were surprised that the public was so as you say. Rapturous and supportive in grateful to be able to see probably the most famous athlete of from Czechoslovakia ever But it did. I think it took us back. You know we come from the United States a free country where people are able to. You know have freedoms that back. Then they didn't have in Communist countries so but for us to actually hear the. Pa announcer her name. Chris Evert Zina Garrison Pam Shriver and not be able to save the name of Martina. Navratilova was just that was that was really different for us in in We couldn't believe it. I'm not sure there was any heads up. I just think it was like all of a sudden we were like wait. Martinez known as the player from the United States. That's that's just crazy you can't you imagine now in this day and age but that's what it was back then. How did you focus on the on the tennis when all of that was going on? Not just obviously not himself but you the whole team. Well I think it was pretty easy for us because we had obviously a clear goal in mind. We wanted to win the Fed Cup again and win in Prague for Martina and once you start playing tennis match anywhere whether it's Center Court Wimbledon or Fed Cup tie or matching your hometown. You know once you start. It's tennis and you figure out ways to settle in and that's what that's what everybody did in You know I from what I remember. There was just one difficult moment in Christie actually played that Fed Cup with a bit of a knee problem and Marlon Chrissy and Martina or to the healthiest most great champions with longevity and they hardly had injuries but Chrissy had a bit of a knee tendinitis remember she struggled in match against Raphael. Reggie I think losing it so it put. We did have one doubles match where we were at one one but for the most part we were. We were just too good for everybody even against Czechoslovakian in the final So once once we got into warm up and I ball we. We settled in when I think of Martina is a tennis player in and watching back some much issues. Such machine on the court her peak she just played with such purpose. Play on clay just being so committed to coming in and playing aggressively. But she's quite an emotional character of the cool isn't she? Whoa was she like emotions. Wise that we can. What effect did that did that? Have on you well from what I recall was one of the greatest job she ever did it. Managing her emotions Martinez had been through a lot of learning to do that. Okay so this is nineteen eighty-six. It's after she want first major. At Wimbledon at seventy eight over Chrissy. She had been through numerous different relationships. She had had the the reporter sort of out her before she was or to which he tried to get ahead of it and she knew she had to come out as as As a lesbian and that in one thousand nine hundred eighty one. She had to sort of lived through that. She had lived through the defection getting her citizenship. A lot of her Wimbledon championships because we all stayed in the village. I remember sometimes there was tumultuous things going on in her life and she was still able to step out on center court and play great finals even with personal storm's going on around her so this is one of the things that Martinez was able to do. Whatever was happening. Whatever emotions the would have seemed maybe overwhelming and could be a distraction. She could compartmentalize and even though she might have some oceans on the court they never or very seldom especially once she hit her stride in say like nineteen eighty one through say eighty eight. She was very seldom knocked off her goal. Really interesting a few minutes going. You mentioned the special aspect to that time was Martina and Chrissie being piloted the team together and going through that to get together. They already great great rivals. That time. I think that sixty nine times at that point which is just extraordinary but then they're also being teammates and I think there was a very warm mint between them during during the opening ceremony which must have been incredibly emotional for Martina. Can you just sort of expanded a little bit more on on their relationship in an experienced together that week well I mean he had their rivalries? You mentioned they were already close to seventy matchups. They'd one major doubles tournaments together. They'd already played on teams whether it's Fed Cup or Wightman Cup which was USA versus Great Britain They had known each other since the early seventies so this was maybe fifteen years into knowing each other when they ended up being in Prague and Chrissy knew that it was Martinez. Week it was Martinez moment to make history for herself. And Chrissy wasn't gonNA miss it even with knee tendinitis and you know it's not easy between Wimbledon and the US Open with everybody's schedule to go to Prague on clay court but it was something that Chrissy wouldn't miss any shows us for the loyalty that Chrissy had towards the friendship and the rivalry. And I thought they both handled it great to the greatest champions in the history balloons tennis coming together on the same team at a historic moment. and I thought Chrissy Chrissy handle it. All beautifully did it. Did it feel historic at the time in that moment? Being a part of it did. Yeah yes it felt really big. It felt well. Sometimes you can measure how biggest fields by the number of media people around and the number of people who made the trip or could could get visas to get in and there was a lot. There was a lot of Extra media their extra. Us Ta People ITF. I mean everyone knew. This was not just your normal team competition. It will release. It may be was the most intense the most Unique tennis team format Week ever And so that's what I remember is just so many more people like the next year it was in Vancouver Canada and then Two years later we want it in Tokyo in what was Christie's last match ever After the US Open in nineteen eighty nine. But when I think about all the different Fed Cup matches or Wightman Cup teams. I mean any Davis Cup matches that I've been able to go to including the US when they wanNA Their last Davis Cup Tie Davis Cup win for the year. This one will. I don't think ever be repeated as far as Not just tennis history. But really in a way. Kind of world history. Those are incredibly powerful words. Aren't they particularly at the end? From Pam. Shriver who Catherine Spence a good fifty minutes on the phone a few days ago and we'll play the rest of the interview for you in a separate podcast and a few days time. She was interesting to hear her stories from the earliest when panel reached a US Open Final. The experience she's had experiences she's had with. Martina on the double scull incredible doubles partnership so many fascinating thoughts about the game today and exactly the situation that we find ourselves in right now and win tennis mart. Return so that'll come up in a few days time but in terms of this particular interview this particular story. It's it's mind boggling. Isn't it to to to think what it must have been like emotionally. I think for Martina Navratilova in particular to go back to her homeland and we saw the match all together. And just the kind of the the widest story Madame. Even if you read up on a lot of what when Tom during that the lead up to the event and the event itself it must have been a very strange atmosphere Absolutely I just just hearing Pam. They talk about everything that Martinez overcome in her life. I think this story of nine hundred ninety six as we said really starts in nineteen seventy five for the defection and everything that she had to overcome in those years in between this was then like kind of like a seminal moment in her career really and I I feel bad that I didn't know that much about it. Was Mary Carillo. Who tipped us off that it would be an interesting story to tell and I think it really is. I think these days we can get so swept up in Grand Slam. Success being the absolute measure of a player's career. But Actually Martina Navratilova is a perfect example of someone who who had so much so much more going on in her life. I don't want to compare and of hardships. That players have gone through but Martina Navratilova had so much to overcome. And Yeah chief so much on the on the court and this and this would have been as you said such an emotional moment. I found it really fascinating. Delving into the research in terms of what Pam was saying. They're in the difference between the reaction that she received from the local officials and the reaction. She got from the fans just to expand on that a bit the US as matches were shunted to the grandstand court. Even though Martina never over and Chris Evert with two of the biggest draws so only eight hundred people were able to set on that court and watch while the other matches took place in the eight thousand seat main stadium so there's reports of four five people deep on those grandstand courts climbing on chairs on ladders just to get a glimpse of Martina Navratilova The newspapers provided only bare bones of those matches involving Navratilova. The stadium shop sold photos of every player. Apart from Navratilova photographers were stopped from taking photos of her. And when you say on the topic. The prime minister got up and left immediately. He didn't he didn't even acknowledge either the winning team or the losing team and he was followed out of the box by by the officials as well so that was on the one hand on the other hand you had the crowd reaction you know people coming up to. Navratilova giving her roses. Linesmen asking her for her autograph There's an incredible story that that there's a train track running behind behind the colds and and the driver would would sit at stop the train so that people on the train catch glimpse of the cool as it was going past and he would go past multiple times a day and always stop so that people could watch just an incredible contrast in those two perspectives. Which I think is really important to to acknowledge. That's something that came across when we were the match the warmth of the crowd towards her even in the knock-up we win. The plays were introduced at the start. I felt the bigger ovation went to wrestle over over the player playing under the Czechoslovakian flag in Mandlikova that that was the sense I got was a sort of polite warm applause throughout all the shots. Didn't really feel like a classic Fed Cup atmosphere and the place was packed. Him and there was a huge crowd watching this match not to seat to be had but it was. I got the sense. People didn't really know what what they were supposed to be doing. And I would just reacting instinctively and that was to be politely Warm Towards Martina in the end. All just seem to come out. Because when she was giving the the post-match interview she was really getting warmly received as Pam. They're the noise was was immense. And it really started to show on Martinez Fe. She was she was pretty emotional at the end. It was quite some. Watch Katharine. And this wasn't part of what we were we were able to rewatch. We relived the WO- proved to be the deciding rubber in singles between Vattela Vermont. Cave a bit. The opening ceremony for the whole event was I should say it was a it was A. It was a Fed Cup event style of which we going to see this year in with the revamped fed cup in in Budapest it was a standalone forty nation event. Tilden one city during during one week in Prague But Matt some of the some of the accounts in detail if the opening ceremony is well a pretty breathtaking. I think the first thing I would say about the opening cermony is how about this for symbolism coincidence is that the opening ceremony took place on Sunday the twentieth of July nine hundred ninety six which was five years to day since Navratilova had received her. Us citizenship. It was the same day in the calendar says she received a citizenship on the twentieth of July. One thousand nine hundred eighty one and then five years later. She's coming out on the cool in her homeland but wearing the USA's colors really extraordinary coincidence there And Yeah I just wanted to pick up on the role of Hana Mandlikova during the opening ceremony. Because as we've heard officials wouldn't say Navratilova's name but Hannah Mandlikova stepped up and kind of announced her to the crowd and apparently apparently the shares were rapturous and incredible and people just gave Nevada over this warmth because never has had been really unsure how she would be received so that was a really important moment to to get that warmth from the crowds And it's interesting. Because Mandlikova herself hadn't paid much in Czechia. She was given license to travel without the restrictions that Martina had about she wasn't allowed to defect so She was kind of seen as this. This Queen Really of checks back in tennis whereas Martinez was presented as kind of a nonperson. They they didn't acknowledge I record. In the in Checks Zakia so Mandlikova was was able to travel and she was able to live there but she hadn't played for eight years in Prague so it was kind of a bit of a homecoming for her as well. I think the reports are that she was really classy about it and just recognized also that it was a moment in the same way that Chris Evert did on the USA team as Pam. Shriver was saying and another another thing that I found about. Mandlikova is that she got married that week during the tournament so we watch them play the final and the Sunday she'd got married on the Friday I. I came across this article in the independent from two thousand and one looking back on that and John Roberts while taking a morning stroh during the Fed Cup in Prague in one thousand nine hundred six British tennis journalists noticed a newlywed couple outside the old town whole. She looks like Hannah. He thought dismissing the notion. He walked on by but upon arriving the stadium. The gems discovered that the bride in the mid blue leather suit was indeed Hannah Mandlikova. She called a press conference to announce that she just married Jan setback the owner of a restaurant in Sydney Australia so it was almost like this was. This was a week for Mandlikova as well that she always wanted to mark in an extraordinary way because it was everything about it was extraordinary for her as well. Just something. I found fascinating that I hadn't realized while we were watching the match that we saw between never wrestled over Mandlikova she. She got married two days earlier. Wow Gosh just digest water story and the Self. The final was th. They're actually so is the second of three rubbers. The first rubber was Chris. Evert Lloyd as she was then because she was married to John. Lloyd the British former plant. She beat Helena Sukova seven five seven six and then second up was Martina against Mandlikova. Now the first set was really tight. WasN'T IT Z? Five all ended up being one seven five and then she right away with the second six what. What was your impression of what we actually saw in terms of of the tennis. How good it was. How Good Martina Navratilova was. I mean I have. I have extremely hazy memories of the latter stages of Mati invert of his career. But I I really have any clear. Memories of her in her obsolete pump. I'm looking forward to to seeing some of that. Growth Wimbledon when Tennessee lived there but seeing on clay a special for different reasons. Obviously I mean the first thing that struck me decided to focus. Just what an athlete she was. I mean she was just a in her obsolete physical prime she just say strong and balanced in have movement was just incredible. Absolutely incredible. No they you know have movement was booked for Gross. She she was good slider on the clay wasn't sheep. Moving up to the net. She didn't she didn't remotely uncomfortable on clay that she was sort of unsure of her best fitting she just had this total commitment to her game and her style of play that that it would be enough. It would be good enough no matter what the surface no matter who the opponent and yes she. She was reading credible. The other thing that I think struck me even before that was that both of them had their head down with not tied up. They both had shoulder length hair and neither had tied up. I mean I just cannot imagine doing sports without tying my hero up you're not going to be up to contribute anything to this. Maybe you will be able to a few months but couldn't get over to ninety five south could've related to it. I think when I had my top not in those days David's and that would have been goodness what what struck me was. Because I remember those days Do Remember watching tennis back then and remember Mandela of a always being talked about as having a big forehand for her time she had an incredibly powerful flat struck full hand. That just pinged off the strings. I would compare. It's in a little way to to lentils of that era wasn't blistering one punch knockout power but it was just relentless she could hit deepen pathway with it but it was noticeable in the second set. She just stopped doing that. She started trying to chip and charge in almost plan ever ever terrain game. You realize then just water water. Great never ever was as an exponent of serve and volley tennis if chip charge tennis and she would beat you with combination. She wouldn't just you see these days. Somebody comes in and a volleys knockoff folly because the the approach is being so devastating in its own right and it's produced a put away back then they weren't trying to get a put away on. The first volley are often with their approach. There were trying to get in and then they would come up with. She would come up with a combination and she would volley a knee high volley deep and then get you on the next one if she needed three or four dollars not a problem and I think that is such a rare ability these days. It wasn't all just drop volleys. It was just these wonderful combinations. And it's something that has been lodged a loss to the game these days and never till ever. I think probably doesn't get the do that. She deserved for just. How could she was? Because as you say the movement was mind blowing at times and people forget and that's the beauty of going back on watching something like this is. It just reminds you my word. She could've competed against anybody in any era. And she made Mandlikova lose faith in her game didn't she? She lost the opening set. Mandlikova when she really had hung in there and competed. Well it was pretty nip and talk and Martina was very obviously nervous. She wasn't it was good tennis. But they will moments when you could really see the strain of those nerves and she was showing the stress on her face in the frustration of being a perfectionist unite. There was never any it was interesting. How negative body language was she never celebrated a great show? She just chastised herself for a sub partial. 'cause she was obviously this crazy. Perfectionist is so many great athletes are but she won the tight opening set and then Mandlikova seemed to just think well my games. Don't get enough then and tried to beat Martina hers which obviously was a hiding to nothing is great players. Make you do they make you adjust to them? You know they hundred percent back their own game style to be good enough on whatever surface against whatever opponent and that's what Navratilova did there I think you've both commented on the start of plays that we saw something that we will picked up on in terms of how tennis's changed happened between the first set in the second. Set as you said that I was really tight. Seven five but because they paid an even number of games. They didn't actually go in sick down like they would. Now at the change of ends they played the next game. They started the second set there and then I actually thought that was a turning point in the match in terms of the momentum because now rattled over just broken to win the set and then she rattled through service game in no time and so within one change of end she at one the set and after a good start and the next set and MANDIC overlooks sized. Look a little bit deflated and it was just interesting the way that not having that break between sets can autumn minimum whereas now players have a bit more time to reflect in each set. It was like a new star whereas it did. It didn't in those days. They just carried on. We should something we will send notice from the from the ninety five final in Monte Carlo. Which we're GONNA talk about. Yeah felt so brooks didn't set a speed of play. Generally I mean that's been striking about all the matches besides the Murray Forero that would say far. There's just just no messing the plays a waiting on the bulkheads. They can't get the bulk it to give them the Bulls fast enough to serve. Bring that back please. Also Nice little note here as well as having played Mandlikova in the Wimbledon final that never to level one that one in Straits. Well she then went on to the. Us Open and faced Helena. Souckova in the final of the US hype. I'm Betas six. Three six two then went on to the nineteen eighty seven Australian Open and lost to Mandlikova Manica winning seven. Five seven six two to win her I around the Australian Open singles title so a lot of matches against her former compatriots and just such an interesting period in the sport and it does show how old the top players were playing Fed Cup in those days and how cool it was to have them all together. Which is what they've wanted to get back to with that kind of format of having the best players in the world play each other in a country competition which doesn't doesn't happen quite so often with the with the old format as Davis Cup and Fed Cup oversee then back then. It did which was which was great for the Sport. I was reading doing. Has it a guess at what never saw overs? Overall Fed Cup record is in a Khokar. Imagine she lost about three suspect. It's ridiculous she lost one and it was. It was a final ever rub when she came back to play in two thousand and four. She teamed up with Jill Craybas but overall her record is twenty an hour and singles and twenty and one in doubles. Do you think she holds that against? You'll craven saw Martin over to play in Fed Cup in two thousand and four in purchase in Slovenia whether it was that tie but yeah the USA consisted of never to over right at the end of their career. Just playing doubles. I don't recall her plane but maybe she did. And then there was Venus Williams playing as part of that team yeah fantastic occasion was against Austria. That's true Albert shaft was playing. Wow Guy so what? Great Memories and Martina Navratilova. She'll be coming up again in tennis. Relived over the next few weeks and months when we get to the French Open and Wimbledon. Yeah I just wanted to read out a little thing from sports illustrated from Frank Deford. Who's one of the Great Sports Writers I think it just sums up the story quite well. Something to end on is He says St. when senseless. I'm apologies if I'm such a sign that for the first time in pronouncing it incorrectly I Got Lady Gaga Saint Wenceslas. The city's patron once promised to pop back if things ever got really sticky but neither religious atrocity north foreign occupation neither the jackboots of the Nazis. No the tanks of Moscow have been enough to summon his return. Don't bother asking for when senseless yet. The check say things abound to get worse so this summer for just a moment time. Martina reappeared instead no saint for sure but every anxious symbol her name. Navratilova even means she who returns and so she did. Although as time passed in Czechoslovakia Never Salova came more to mean she represents hope and then at last she who triumphs which I thought was really powerful summation of the immune. This moment had on the country. Really God I love it when sport into set with history. That is one of my sweet spots from Thursday. So that's not ninety six. What about nineteen ninety-five? Catherine what were you doing in nineteen ninety-five winning things? We Yeah Yeah. That was my athletic. It turns out genuinely not a setup I ask my mom to produce fatos for producing all of these photos But the one the first one she produced from nineteen ninety-five with me proudly holding a cup and she sent it to the the family group chats or no she. She held up junior family group. Chat my brothers response was what? When did Cathy ever went to cope? He can get in the bidden full subtext. I was the one that one of the cups which is not Andreea. The Takeda anyone a cool if that Cup 'cause I run third leg in the sprint relay district sports boxer and we had one and I insisted on being the ones take the cup and take the cup and then sort of engaged my parents in some sort of fatal sheet me with the Cup for which I would be grateful for twenty five years later. Yeah we've got the Pittsburgh photographic evidence of it Well and of my hair in nineteen ninety-five peaking than than what? The word is what you were doing. David's great hair days. Have you seen the poem running on Instagram David? No well. Currently you'll beating Hugh grant in a in a style contest. You might be peaking at the polls. I had deliberately going into the hairdressers and take a picture of Hugh grant with me. Now said a want that place and this is when he was a thing he was funeral. And also this is jeff vetere gins timothy shallow again. Well that means David's Federer. Yeah the underdog so yeah basically. I had the curtains all over my eyes and yeah it was a horrific look. Well like I can't believe I'm saying this but I when you produce that photo of the Bull. The talk about your. He won't days. I was pleasantly surprised. I didn't it didn't I didn't ex-navy is awful. I mean it was ov- it's time. I don't think you should do that now. For various reasons disagree but now he's exactly time to agree But it it was. It was all right okay. Well I'm surprised the ladies didn't come flocking. Didn't and my mother refuses to put that picture up in her house. Even though I graduated with a header on lots of other things happening in one thousand nine hundred five is well. Not all of them. Good as you can probably imagine. Oj Simpson was judged to be not guilty of double murder. Although that would be followed by a civil case with different outcome the five year Bosnian war came to an end. Toy Story was released Braveheart was best picture at the Oscars and Madison keys was born. Those all happened in nineteen ninety-five in the rubbish wasn't it s world more generally The the big story really was the rivalry between Andre Agassi. Pete Sampras. They played in the Australian Open. Final one biography that played in the Indian Wells Final Win by Sampras and they've won the applied in the Miami final one biography so that was providing storyline. I don't either of them played in Monte Carlo that year but Thomas Muster Matt had begun. I feel almost plus sports on his own because he wasn't a factor associated events but my word when got on clay was he a factor I love that description because it does seem that he was just doing his own thing on clay so going into the Monte Carlo final he was on a twenty one match winning streak on clay he already won three titles that season on the surface in Mexico City Estoril and Barcelona just to just take those stats onwards moving past this Monte Carlo. Final just to demonstrate how dominant he rolls on on clay in this area. He would eventually extend his winning streak to forty matches winning Monte Carlo Rome roland-garros and sank polten in Austria. And it was the longest winning streak on the surface since Bjorn Borg in. Nineteen seventy seven to nine hundred seventy nine winning forty six overall on clay in one thousand nine hundred five win. Loss record was sixty five. Wins Two losses with Alex Correction Albert? Kosta the only two players to beat him. He won twelve titles in the season. Eleven of them on clay and my favorite part of that is five of those records after on Garros Somehow managed to find all these tournaments on clay. And you just win them. All as you say what everyone else was doing. Other things. So twelve titles directly shays with federal who also onto in two thousand six and then he would carry that Geico form into the next season when he won seven titles on clay and he went into the nine hundred ninety six roland-garros having one ninety six of his last nine hundred nine matches on clay. I mean extraordinarily extrordinary numbers. And yet the thing I find most incredible about Thomas Muster. When you see numbers like that is he has one. French Open which came in that one thousand nine hundred five season. He kind of timed his extraordinarily burst only around kind of one French Open and he had. He hasn't difficult drawers. I think at the French Open courier and he played Gomez the year. He won it but yet he only has one French. Open with numbers like downplays. Pretty pretty remarkable and that burst was relatively late in his career. He was twenty seven ninety. Five during the the monte-carlo final that that we lived yesterday. And before that he he he was a thing he was around he'd been think. Top twenty the year before and so two steadily risen up the rankings of slight parallels with Stanford rinker. I suppose he was there. Were there abouts but nobody was talking about him as a genuine grand slam contender and then all of a sudden. He's he's a thing a big big thing winning everything and and getting to number one in the world and winning a Grand Slam. Nice plays the difference with brinker you happen. Just the onesie expanded expended his canister in a two year period regard got to eighty nine semi final the Australian Open. He's got to as well the semifinals or in fact the final of the Miami Tournament later that year and he beaten unit known five cents in the semi finals of the Lipton Championships and he was due to play lendl the next day in the final in the early hours though when he was I understand. He was getting something out of his car. The sort of the boots. The car and a drunk driver rolled straight into him and seven ligaments in his knee. I'll never forget. The video pitches that were were played thereafter of him on a clay sitting on a chair with his leg raised unable to get up but smashing forehands from a sitting position as you tried to get back into tennis and I mean my early recollections of muster between ninety and ninety five when this was happening was when I was really following everything I was. I watched all of those clay-court tournaments. You've just talked about that. I'll watch the lots including all the ones after the French. Open so I ninety nine ninety six nine matches he won. I watched all of them and my sense before that I remember. When he lost to currier the franchise from was the E. was such a grind. He was the ultimate grinder but he didn't have a big show. He had like a heavy four hundred just kept on coming but he was not explosive. And you would get to the the grand slams when everybody else. Who's peaking and somebody else had a bit more. Had a bit more too much for him and even on clay so he developed something can in Ninety Five. Annalisa arrived running across in ninety six. He was such a favor. He was a needle like favorite to win that title and he ran into Michael Stich. Who beat him huge shock at the time? But coming into Monte-carlo it's interesting. When we saw the graphics on the screen that he was I think the night seat and Becker was the second seat and he was in a run of a form. I mean okay. There was no sampras-agassi there but he he had an incredible year. The rest of that year did Boris Becker at the big events but on clay he'd always struggle to breakthrough heat handsome some fantastic results but we haven't managed to to to win a title. Yeah he'd Never WanNa touch on clay and never date in his career But he did say during that Monte Carlo Tournament that it really was a goal for him to win a clay court title. It would have been such a big deal for him just to win any ties. Klay because of the way that the surface didn't match up with his game He really had to overcome the surface. So obviously we'll get into the match but for Becker to not win. This match against Mr must rank as one of his toughest defeats given given all of that given the position. He put himself in the match and what he said about how much of a goal it was to win on clay. The other elements of the backstory Matt is the muster the day before had played a certain and drag identity who is now the ATP's champion and get Enzi was not very happy. At the end of that match and muster was a right state yet cowed Enzi was not behaving like ATP chairman in waiting it also good rewards just walked lesser latter stages A muster is sucking in. He can barely walk between points and Gowda Enzi is getting really thrown off by that is really messing messing him up mentally and anyway it goes to a second set tiebreak and must have wins it and he wins it on a smash and gardens e after hitting the return of the smash into the net follows the ball into the net with his racket he throws it violently from the baseline into the net. Sort of cutting through the air vicious. I mean it could. It was dangerous. It could have hit a ball. Kid GonNa pick the ball up from the net could have gone over the net and hit. Most he was just absolutely furious cowed ends. He gets booed off the cold by Ola. Crowds must have stayed on the on the floor in a heap. Can't even get up cow. Then Z goes over to. He does shake musters. Ambi doesn't the Empire's hand. He was really annoyed with the empire for not insisting on the time between points. Because he thought Mr Mr was so tired and he wasn't he was taking too long and the empire wasn't enforcing that rule where we heard that before and yeah he's just absolutely furious. Cow Dens is it's quite comical in a way but also you're aware that actually what he's done is quite dangerous. He could have hurt someone there was. There was a potential incident which didn't happen. Which could have done with him. Throwing that racket goes into his press conference and he's talking about the umpire not enforcing the rule but muster that evening actually went to hospital he had. He had several sugar infusions because he was saying he had no energy he hadn't slept for. Its that like six hours over the past forty eight hours. He had no appetite at all. He could neat kind of thought he was ill and he said. Are you gonNA be able to play in the final tomorrow against Becker? And he came out with this amazing line saying well. It's nice to win monte-carlo but not with a heart attack so the eye so the Dow whether he would actually take the call against Becker the next day and actually when you saw them in the early stages because Becca wins the first two sets and it was a bit like watching Ferrer against Murray the other week. Wasn't it where you early on you thinking is this classic because it's one sided demolition job and. Becca is playing some fantastic shots. He serve and volleying relentlessly. There was that stat wasn't there after about a set and a half. Becker had come to the Knicks Sixty Times on clay which was great fun to watch and it also reminded me that how muster hated playing serve and volley is his record against Stephan. Edberg right now. Thomas Muster's record against Steph. Edberg is zero ten who I lay. It couldn't did matter what they played on. He couldn't beat Edberg and when he was playing. Becker at the time. Becker was two zero. Wasn't even the head to head and then here's two sets to love up and must've does look just short of energy he's got no ZIP and get up and go but because in a way because we haven't seen in for so many years you kind of don't know where what his baseline level is really and then you see intensive energy intensive get up and go and then you suddenly see that starting to come to the fore later on and what a different player he became but as a match the I think the third set was one sided in favor. Of must've wasn't it was one of those classic Bekker's one two sets but he's having to really shop make on clay in order to do it And then the. The crux of the match is the full set. An incredible force set. Isn't it really close throughout matchpoints? Everything yes they use too much points. That Boris Becker held six four in the fourth set tiebreak. That's that's as close as Boris. Becker came to to winning a tight long clay and he he double-faulted on on the one on his serve and that was his only double-fault at that stage his only double fault in the much. Over the course of four sets any any any really went for the second serve which was a which was a tactic. He was going forward on clay. He said he said. Afterwards you have to trust your gut feeling and I would have regretted it more if I just patted the ball in and lost and lost point and it served so well all tournament going for that approach serves and it. Just let him down on that point. Y- his approach was right. It got him in a winning position on clay. He just couldn't execute under the pressure of championship. Point which is amazing to think that you know even someone who's greatest. Boris Becker. You know it gets to him and it. Snowball didn't because he was a shell of a man in the in the fist that he he joined. He disintegrated in that. I said he couldn't believe it. He couldn't believe that it squandered the opportunity is a Fini that was it. That was my chance to to win a tight long clay to. He knows what he could have gone on to do on. Clay won one of these points. Because it was the the deciding set was just not remotely contest in Thomas Muster. His in his face he was full of energy. A bag of beans just in his face with just Oh. I'm so pleased with myself that that you didn't win those much points and here we are in fifth. Salova UP ON ME and here. I am Jason groundstroke of just not demonstrative Thomas Mr through the whole match and suddenly it all comes out in the fifth. And he's just roping. Boris Becker's knows in the whole situation and poor guy just looks like a shell. It's like a hollowed out. Shell is yes pretty extraordinary. The way that that much ended the The star of match they had a the photo at the net and Crikey. You don't get that feeling of an ano tension these days that you got in matches back then because these two were standing shoulder to shoulder. They weren't looking at each of those. No communication between them. It was just attitude feeling of agro at the end. It was a polite handshake. A little hand on the shoulder from Beca to him and muster was just beside himself the celebrations. He was really milking it. But in the post match press conferences it did take a different ton didn't intense. I mean but like I said. Becca seemed to be quite magnanimous in defeat. At the end I think he lost a six love set in that fifth set but in the Post Match. Press conference he he wasn't too happy with with muster sort of going from death's door in the guarantee match and looking like he's out on his fate early on in the first two sets to be in a ball of energy. Then Yeah He. He was asked to explain what happened in the fifth set. And he said Boris Becker. I wasn't too tired in the fifth. He just seemed to be on another level which is not normal so that was the first quote that you know. Maybe he was going to customer. Dispersions hair grows back and then the journalist. Doug little deeper and he just said I have a hard time seeing Mr today and Mr yesterday either. He wasn't so tired yesterday or he did something last night. Or this morning He's been known to be very fit. But yes they in on the call he seemed to be dying and just twenty four hours later. He's down two sets to love and is running quicker than in the fifth set than in the first set. He says I'm just I'm just saying what everyone is seeing. And he says either. He's a good actor or something. Unbelievable magical happened last night and personally I don't believe too much wonders and then the only said you know you'll saying this. This sounds funny. But you're serious about this and Becker says yes. I'm I'm a serious person. All I know is that what I saw yesterday doesn't go with what I saw today. Exactly what he was getting done exactly. No but what we do know. According to tennis three six five. Who reported on this match subsequently in the years in recent years in fat they reported the Becker was fined? Twenty thousand dollars for those comments and the ATP after an investigation determined that Becker had violated a rule governing conduct contrary to the integrity of the game. The remarks by Boris Becker raised inappropriate questions about the reputation of Thomas Muster and the tournament physician. Dr Patrick Coder said David Cuba. Atp's administrator of regulations so yeah Beker in hot water for those comments and yeah. I couldn't complete remember that story you told Matt about how muster being in hospital the night before and had those sugar infusions. But yeah. Boris Becker wrists slapped some big headlines for Thomas Muster Yeah Yeah FA headlines for Thomas Muster. Yeah because he well yeah over the next over the next twelve months he would be in the headlines a lot because he would win the French Open he would go to world number one and then he would also have tabloid headlines for an alleged relationship with the Duchess of York. Sarah Ferguson which rumbled on for the next few minutes I remember. Being at Queen's when tabloid journalists were following around leaning over and actually funny enough talking to Andrea Gardens e who used to be his training partner because both muster and guarantee were were managed by the same person. Ronnie Leitgeb a very influential person in sport a tennis over the course of about fifteen or twenty years in Austria so yet muster was a big deal back then. He went on that incredible run. But that match just sticks in the memory almost almost feels like the starting point four at all for his run. But what's also interesting is what Becker went on to do. Because while things weren't going very well on clay and had felt like many of his best years were probably behind him with the emergence of Agassi and Sampras they went on to Wimbledon and Agassi Sampras had one how many in a row by the need one two in a row. Nine thousand three hundred ninety four went into ninety five property as joint favourite with Agassi for the title because Agassi won the Australian Open. And I remember the Agassi was leading. Becker by a set. I think a certain a break. And then he was absolutely thrashing him. In the way that only Agassi could on grassy just took these big serves part e beaten Becker in the ninety two run to the final and to the title in the end and then Becca mounted a comeback and one in the semifinals ended up playing Sampras in the final edged out by Sampras and then he went all the way to the semis of the. Us Open's welded BECCA. And that's when he had some sort of falling out with Agassi because when they faced each other in the semi finals of the US Open it was a four set win Fregosi but right at the end when he hits a winning foreign return comes up to Becca and basically slaps his hand away at the handshake because and he doesn't make eye contact. He slaps his hand and walks off with his hand. Raised and it was just agro central. Brilliant stuff agassi eventually beaten in the final by Pete Sampras and then Agassi's career then suddenly went into nosedive and that's when he went into the Challenger level of the tournaments and he talks about that I think he sustained an injury in that match against becker chest injury Petra injury and ended up. Just yeah withering away but there were so many players to talk about in that era and so many of them brought something. It was great. We don't need to talk Matt on when we relive ninety s matches you'll memory David food. The Ninety S is extraordinary. Really love. It didn't didn't Beca then go on to win. Just ran open the next year. Six in in in ninety six. Yes he beat. Michael Chang in the fine. I'm trying to remember what happened to Sampras back in ninety six fit a piece yeah it was. You're quite right. It was the fifth this year and he was absolutely the knocked off the court. I mean I'd love to relive that match because it was Sampras's world number one. He was beating everybody. He and he was famous for knocking. Everybody off the court and Philip. Pacers just picked him up throw around. It was incredible. St- three straight sets some of the hardest hitting I've ever seen from Philipoussis. You're quite right. And then Mark Woodforde beat for the pussies the next round. All the hype was going around would just came out and just sliced and diced Emma and then Beker in the hottest conditions that I think I've ever seen at the Australian Open wins and beat Mark Woodforde in straight-sets on his way to the title. So yeah I think it was. Maybe two years later that I'd joins the tall fulltime and actually both muster becker featured in my early memories of being involved in tennis because in ninety six when I did my first ever work experience. The first player. I came across Queens was Thomas Muster and he was in the gym and I was looking through this window trying to sort of locate where he was in the distance and suddenly right in front of my face he just walked across from. Out of vision two in front of my face and he was looking at looking at me and stomping around because it was raining outside and he was training like an animal. I've just never seen anything lightly intensity he would trainer Thomas Muster Becker in my first day for the ATP tournaments splitting Cratia was there and he carried himself. I don't know how players coped with it. The way he would just walk around and he just suddenly stay you out. I never met him alive but I kind of crossed paths with him on the toilet and Harry was coming out and just eyeball Amir's. I'm passing him over seriously. Intimidating Guy Those are the days. So yeah you can on the the footage that we watched the Montreal yesterday included the the footage started with the players waiting in the Monte Carlo Club pounds. And then doing that quite a conic walks through the clubhouse bit like Queens down the steps and onto the court and you could feel the waves of intimidation Of Thomas. I mean Boris Becker who is a pretty imposing guy in a big and strong and statuesque and you know had a massive organ as you say he was the highest seed but there was something a bit scary about. Thomas missed it felt back in the eighties and the early nineties mid nineties felt as though that was part of the game which to try to intimidate or at least the very. Show that your not intimidated. The the. It's so much easier cosio now you don't you don't get that feeling of Plas- trying to impact each other when they're in the locker room when they're on the handshake or in the knocker printing of this stuff back then. The message is being sent all the time. Oh I feel like we need a new theme tune for this section of the Post Yeah. I need a nineties themed. Thanks let me know what you think. Tennis podcast. What sort of things you should we have But that's about anything else before we look ahead into our futures. What's there to look ahead to not much shoutouts? Matt I do. Yes shoutouts to Richard Denton to Jonathan Pattern and to gail now rich. Jonasson Gail Away. And thank you one and all that stuff so thank you backing A hope you have enjoyed tennis relived once again. As I said we're going to have an interview the full interview with Pam Shriver that Catherine did coming your way in the next few days and we are constantly talking about other ideas which are going to be coming. Your way on the tennis podcast. Thank you for joining us for this one. Take care of yourselves and we'll see it.

tennis Martina Navratilova Martina United States Catherine Spence Pam Shriver Martinez David Goffin Prague Fed Hannah Mandlikova Matt Marlon Chrissy Chris Evert Zina Garrison Pam Martina Navratilova Cova Andy Murray Boris Becker Mary Carillo Thomas Muster Christie Czechoslovakia
Pelosi and McConnell in stalemate over articles of impeachment

AM Joy

1:25:30 hr | 8 months ago

Pelosi and McConnell in stalemate over articles of impeachment

"Good Morning I am joy. Well what do you do when your home alone. Most of us at home for the holidays celebrate and gets a much needed rest but if you're donald trump. Well he's been his mar-a-lago resort all week golfing every day in rubbing elbows with his guests but in between all of that the president of the United States has spent his holidays attacking speaker. Nancy Pelosi the Democrats and even the late John McCain. I mean he's taken to twitter on a daily basis including last night to call Democrats Hypocrites and liars even when far fantasizing about Speaker Pelosi losing a primary Mary in the very comfortable district. She represents in San Francisco California and also reigniting his beef with California's Democratic Governor Gavin newsom on Christmas. Smith's you would think that Mitch McConnell going on his favourite network and basically promising him an acquittal after a quick senate non trial trial would have soothed trump spirit this week but that was before speaker. Pelosi pump the brakes on the entire process when she decided not to send the impeachment charges to the Senate until Mitch McConnell and Chuck Schumer Come to an agreement agreement on a trial format Donald Trump's erratic tweets are becoming the third after becoming the third. He was president to be peach. Might seem normal for someone who has spent his entire presidency batting democracy around like a golf ball but as the Huffington post reports points out his tweets are another reminder that Donald trump is the loneliest. This man in America one can just pick them roaming around mar-a-lago phone in hand tweeting away and screaming into the ether about the cruelty of the Democrats and now we can have this week's headline to all the others from his presidency and join me. Now is Randal Pinkett season. Four winner of the apprentice and author of black faces in white places and David Jolly former Republican congressman and MSNBC. Political contributor. Randall I want to go to you first. Because you know Donald Trump you've worked with Donald Trump having won. I'm the apprentice. What do you what do you think is his state of mind right now? How do you think he's reacting in your view to impeachment and is what he's doing what you would have expected from him from New Newham? Definitely what I would have expected joy. I think it right now. His state of mind is he's certainly unhinged. We see that reflected in this his tweet storm over the past few days and the proclivity. He has to fire back at others calling Nancy. Pelosi crazy or Chuck Schumer Schumer crying or the Democrats do nothing. I think he's also agitated to your earlier. Point being the third president in history to be impeached. I I don't think that's sitting very well with Donald Psyche. And he's hyper sensitive if not obsessed with how he is presented in the media and by the press and the the idea that this will be a stain on his presidency for history. I know that would not sit well with Donald but also I think he is on one hand both breath concerned but also comforted concerned by the very small crack in the Republican Wall. Senator Murkowski which we'll see if that crack grows rose but to your earlier point also comforted by the comments of Mitch McConnell or Lindsey Graham that they are going to be coordinating with the White House through the entire Senate Senate trial process so what is most comforting to Donald is. What should be most concerning to us that we have a legislative branch in in the Senate and the executive branch talking about coordinating in the midst of an impeachment trial? That should be very concerned to all of us. Yeah we'll stick opelousas made it pretty clear. Let me just read what she tweeted on Monday. That sort of sham process is not something she's going to allow to just go down. She's tweeted the house cannot choose impeachment managers injures until we know what sort of trial the Senate will conduct. President trump blocked his own witnesses and documents from the White House and from the American people are phoney complaint and thorny complaints over the house process. What's his excuse? I mean he's not GonNa get the trial that he wants which is just a sort of no trial trial because Speaker Pelosi. Could I mean she could hold onto you too literally. These impeachment articles till spring if she wanted to let it all through the court. So we're GONNA talk a little bit more later in the show but I to get ticket back to him for just a minute. David Jolly one of the things that trump and his supporters have been doing to try to get out from under kind of the weight of what impeachment means Him being the only the third person to be impeached. Impeached United States president. Well it didn't happen that if Speaker Pelosi doesn't send the articles over. There was no impeachment. Which of course isn't true? Even his own lawyer her friends. Jonathan Turley who. They rolled out to defend him in the house. Judiciary Committee wrote OP. Ed in The Washington Post headline of which I testified defied against trump's impeachment. But let's pretend it didn't happen so even his own lawyer friend to saying it happened. It happened is an impeached president. That can't be undone but for for the base of the party is that's what they have left now to say well. It didn't really happen if Nancy Pelosi doesn't send it over. You hear the president use words like invalid and you're going I want to hear other. Republicans use words like invalid trying to invalidate the impeachment Donald Trump pedals in alternative facts. And he is going to try to exercise that strategy with this the reality joy is in the very first paragraph of the articles passed by the House a couple of weeks ago it says the president of the United States Donald. John Trump is impeached impeached by the House of Representatives and these articles are created for exhibition or to be exhibited to the Senate. He wasn't peach by majority of the House. And the anger anger. You're seeing in the tweet storm over. The weekend is every time he hit send he is expecting some type of absolution to that impeachment and then he realizes no tweet can undo undo what history will forever record that. Donald Trump is the third president to be elected to be impeached by the house. Something that was considered shameful. Richard Nixon resigned rather rather than allow it to happen to him. Richard Nixon is not the third impeached. President is that he resigned after the House Judiciary Committee process so he'd never even to a full impeachment boats. So you know. Clinton is more impeach impeach Nixon rental. You know that this is a guy who lived his life as a television character as a television personality in a sense and impeachment trial would be television program right it would be. It'd be Donald Trump being impeached in a new era in which would take place before the cameras. The problem album with the one. He wants the impeachment he would like to have and it Mitch. McConnell to give him is that it would essentially kind of make him the Oj. I've said this war making the OJ Simpson of presidents right and then he would would get a quick acquittal but people would generally think that was that was that was not even a real trump. I mean even in the Oj. Trial was mystery about what the outcome was going to be me but when the outcome happened a lot of Americans thought it was invalid. That is what he is asking for. Does it make sense to you that he seems to want to do this. Sort of trial where he does come across as sort of an Oj of president. Donald has this love hate relationship with the media and television. He loves it when it loves him and he hates it when it's not favorable to him so I think his biggest concern without question. Is that when we moved to the Senate trial. There is some way that the testimony of a John Bolton or rudy. Giuliani makes its way onto televise screens screens. because therein lies the ability for the trial to really paint him in a negative light. So on one hand and to your point he wants this to be quick to be favourable to beef we've coordinated in a way by Mitch McConnell that gives him quick vindication in his mind. He feels as though he was impeached. But on the other hand there is is the risk. I'll be the small risk the risk that this trial does go the other way and that rather than ending up being favorable to donald that it actually does expose further other his high crimes and misdemeanors and David jolly therein lies the risk for your political party because if in fact sure witnesses are allowed if the deal that gets made is that John Bolton testifies and Mick Mulvaney testifies and other people testified who did testify in the House who who then make Donald make very clear that what Donald Trump says. He did which is try to get a foreign nation to investigate his political rival and to try to get evidence of this crazy conspiracy theory that says that Russia is innocent and that Ukraine is the real meddle in the election if it proves that what trump says he did he did and then he gets acquitted did will then. We're not looking at an OJ trout. We're looking at the kind of trials they used to have in the south when a person who went to trial and all white jury said they are acquitted it when everyone knew they were guilty right. That's a whole other kind of American historical precedent that Donald Trump cannot possibly want right true except for his base. I mean he wants the show because the show will excite his base and honestly allow Donald Trump to continue to put the spotlight on Joe Biden on one hundred Biden which politically Works for Donald Trump. Though there's no parody between the conduct of Joe Biden and the impeachable conduct of Donald Trump Donald Donald trump wants to make that case to his base. His base will accept it which is why though to your point about having a jury and a majority leader that has already expressed S. partiality and a willingness to to rig this trial I think Nancy Pelosi and withholding the articles needs to put a strong spotlight and almost put Mitch McConnell not on trial like we're talking about Donald Trump but in the house. Go big bring a heavy spotlight to the misconduct Mitch. McConnell I think his confession and that he would not be impartial in. This trial is akin to win. Kevin McCarthy admitted that the Benghazi were here hearings were only to sink. Hillary Clinton Clinton it is a fatal fatal error by Mitch McConnell that needs to be part of history and part of the reason why the articles are not going over. It's not just about the witnesses it's about the fact that the majority leader has said we will not have a fair trial in the United States. Senate that's reason enough to withhold this and what we've seen from our lago this weekend again it is the singular trigger for Donald Trump. Is Nancy Pelosi and to an extent the impeachment articles that she now controls. Yeah and it seems to me. I've been a quite a strategic error for Mitch McConnell to say that on television because he's also for reelection in a state that just elected a Democrat to replace the trumpy Republican. who was the governor of the state? So that's a weird choice that he made but I guess it was the choice. He thought trump wanted to go back to these prospects of a trial Randall. Last week on this very program Anthony Scaramucci who knows Donald Trump. Well he was his communications director for ten days. But he knew him before that he speculated that if there are witnesses is in a trial that if Bolton testifies if Rudy Giuliani testifies if some of these other figures wind up testifying that it'll be so damning that in his mind trump would would actually resign. Do you see prospect having knowing this man. You're already nodding. No he would ever do what Nixon did. Decide that. What's come out is so damning so embarrassing and so ruled that? He resigned his office. I don't see it. The man's ego is too big joy. The day I I reported for work with the trump organization donald was reading a stack of magazines and newspapers posted notes turn to articles written unfavourably about him. Donald Loves Donald. His Ego feeds his own ego. And I can't imagine a scenario even with the damning testimony any of a Bolton or a Giuliani and the list goes on. I can't imagine that in his his EGO MANIAC MIND EGO MANIAC. Mind mind that he would resign from the position that has he has built his identity and his his history and his legacy around having become president and even because we know he's prone to fake news and to creating his own reality in narrative around his success in around his accomplishment. And even the reality of that testimony. Good Morning I don't think could put a crack into that wall. That downs built around his ego. I can't see it all right well. Predictions have been made Randal Pinkett. Thank you very much. David Jolly please stick around because coming up. One single solitary Republican senator finally disturbed with how the grim reaper is handling trump's impeachment. We're GONNA talk about about that a little bit next. Hey Guys Willy Willie guys tear this week on the Sunday. Sit Down podcast. I get together with Emmy and Tony winning actor John Lithgow. Oh to talk about his prolific career from the stages ages of Broadway to Daddy's home two and everything in between get it now for free wherever you download your podcasts in fairness when I heard that I was disturbed if we are tasked as the full Senate to to do impartial showed justice under the constitution and the law. That's the old that we will swear to uphold at the commencement of this proceeding. Then to me it means that we have to take that step back from being hand in glove the defense one week after house. Republicans voted unanimously to oppose articles of impeachment for Donald Trump. Republican Senator Lisa as a Markowski became the first and trump's party to publicly break ranks on the Senate side and call out Mitch McConnell for his brazen announcement that he's working in quote. Total coordination ordination with the White House. I wouldn't count on a wave. A Republican guilty votes just yet dream. Now is Libya beavers Congr- reporter for the Hill and David. John is back with me. So I'm I'm GonNa go to you on this I that sounded. Let me actually play for you. What Chris Hayes? My colleague Chris Hayes had to say this was his reaction to Lisa Murkowski. Alaska senators seeming break with McConnell Donald. Listen or stance represents a crack real crack publicly in McConnell's efforts to forgo a real trial. It's a sign that McConnell's decision decision to go on. TV and declare. He was courting with the White House was a big tactical error. Murkowski saying that to me highlighted. What struck me? As a tactical air from McConnell McConnell which was saying out loud is coordinating with the White House which to me actually puts his moderates or his more sort of vulnerable members. Any worse position position so I think it is. It is true that it was tactically an error for for Mitch McConnell to announce in advance of the trial is going to be rigged because it does back. The MODERATES MODERATES SO-CALLED THE MODERATES IN HIS PARTY INTO A corner from your reporting on the hill. Do those moderates people like Lisa Murkowski. She's not even one of the people for reelection. Do they feel backed in a corner. Well they certainly didn't like that mccown. Put them in in this position right. They wanted to show that they could have a fair trial of some sort listened to the evidence and whether or or not witnesses are included. They wanted to be run right. And McConnell made it seem like Oh you know we're going to have this in the Senate we're going to quit and then we're done and that really put them in this spot where they were saying. We don't WanNa do that. We don't like your strategy. You're hurting us. Is there a sense on the hill among public. 'CAUSE I WANNA put up this. The Republicans looking facing reelection in two thousand twenty. It's Martha mcsally. Who didn't even win the first time she got appointed to the seat because she lost and then she got pointed? You've Cory Gardner who is in big trouble in Colorado a state that is not a trump state. You've got Susan Collins in Maine Thom Tillis. North Carolina Joni Ernst in Iowa state. That's teetering David Perdue in Georgia and Kelly Taylor also Georgia to Jordan seats up. Are Those when you talk with staffers for those senators or with those senators. Are they angry. McConnell for putting them on the on the blocks. It's that way I've actually heard a lot of praise for McConnell not necessarily with him saying the coordination with the White House but with the way that he's kind of been handling the situation with Pelosi they think he's been doing it kind of smart and they think that Pelosi kind of gave him ammunition to run on it. But what you are seeing is I was having conversations with some of my Senate Republican sources I said is this going to be a matter of principle or politics when they make this vote and they only said politics scores scores or doing polling. They don't want this blowback in the base. Because you know they want their seat next next. Senators are pretty pretty. Good Gig David. Let me go to you on this. Because 'cause going back to those senators up for reelection. Yeah they all WanNa stay senators but staying a senator in Arizona the strategy for doing that as a whole lot. Different than staying senator in South Carolina. Lindsey Graham is right I mean it places like Arizona Colorado Arts Wing States. It's just going up and saying I'm for trump thousand percent. It's not how you get reelected so do you think that there's real genuine pressure on those Republicans who are up for re election. Were not from deeply red states. Yeah I don't know joy. I first of all notions of public service and self respect should command that senators like Mick. Sally Ann Romney and Gardner and Antilles another's actually come out for a fair trial. Seventy five percent of the country wants a fair trial even though we kind of no there is no momentum to really remove the president from office we simply WanNa see a fair trial ahead of what we assume we'll be an acquittal or at least not finding the president worthy of removal but on the question of the politics in each race in a hyper partisan divided election cycle a witch. Twenty twenty will be. It has more of a turnout model than it is a persuasion model. And unfortunately it's kind of counterintuitive. How you see politicians behave you would think and more moderate purple states you would see? Senators want to appear reasonable and crossover. When in reality what it often incentivizes them to do is has become more partisan hyper partisan excite and turn out more people on their side then you see on the other side and that is I think the election that the irs see over on the Senate side is preparing to run most of their senators in? It's that type of partisan cycle not a consensus cycle. And I think that's very true. This is going to be a base election right and so if even if you are in a purple state you know your best bet. I guess the way they're thinking of it. If you're Susan Collins of Your Cory Gardner Martha mcsally is trying to Max out the vote that's GonNa come out for Donald Trump to stick with you and not not leave you off and just vote for Donald Trump. They want to get those votes to the chances of persuading Democrats or moderates to vote vote for them is probably pretty slim. That's probably the calculation that makes certainly and I'm even hearing some calculations with Democrats Kirsten cinemas also from Purple State like Mc Sally. Hi I'm hearing that. She's doing internal polling kind of see where her basis. So this is. This is a consideration that is being made. A report looks like Doug Jones. This is far from our producer. Let's play Doug Jones. Who is the guy? Won The seat in Alabama that no Democrat was supposed to be able to win but he was running against the guy who's banned from hot topic so you probably have a lot of black vote. came out for him. He managed to win the seat but needs to try to hold the seat. Here's Doug Jones on Sunday actually leaving the door open to acquitting donald trump to keep his job in the Senate and quite frankly. I didn't sit in front of the TV. Set the entire time. The last two or three months. I've been trying to read this. I'm trying to see if the dots get connected if that is the case then I think it's a serious matter manner. I think it's an impeachable matter. But if those dots aren't connected and there are other explanations and I think are consistent with innocence. I will go that way to. I've got to make sure that I what I really want to see. Though is to fill in the gaps there are gaps now people can make up their mind with gaps and testimony. But I would like to see a full in complete picture. You know interesting David. In in a in a in a world in which the Republican Party has become a lot more doctrinaire and extreme in in many ways you have them on the McConnell being beaten up by his hometown paper for violating his oath and being prepared to violate a second time by saying by taking the old saying he'll be impartial partial. But already saying I'm not saying it isn't true. And people like Lindsey Graham saying the same thing but Democrats being the ones incentivized to appear reasonable if they're voting in a state with sufficient as a number of Republicans. And what you're seeing from Doug. Jones is the behavior of the most vulnerable Democratic senator. I mean we as you mentioned. He ran against Roy Moore that elevated him to the Senate he has a very tough fight and deep Red Alabama. But not one. That's that's out of reach but to your point on appearing unreasonable. The contrast between the leadership of a Nancy Pelosi who gave her members space in the House has resulted in what we saw in the the blue wave it works. The American people have a certain sense of decency and fairness they want to reward consensus when they see it. And that is part of the success of Nancy. Pelosi's leadership in the House compared to the Senate leadership of Mitch McConnell Mitch McConnell in saying I'm going to rig the system is right to get the rebuke of not just his home homestate Kentucky but the nation as well and and the House leader. WHO Says I'm not sending you these articles Mitch? McConnell indeed going to run a rig system in the Senate and so the the the Democrats would require fifty one votes for procedural motion sixty-seven votes convict. which I think is highly unlikely I think we need to understand that the the idea? Donald Trump being convicted. It's highly unlikely. No previous impeach president has they normally are not convicted. That's normally what happens. They survived by one. Vote or whatever so. That's not likely but the votes for the procedural federal motions. Are you seeing the numbers out there. That looks like it's possible to get the procedural meaning getting witnesses and not a gambling woman but if I did put money on it I would say that. They don't look like they they have the votes. Yet and Gardner is one that they were looking is facing a tough reelection toss up state but the Republicans I talked to say they don't they don't see him changing. It doesn't when you won't but they don't right and then you have Mitt Romney and one of my sources say McConnell actually went to him and said hey you need to tone down your criticism criticism of the president especially as we're entering these impeachment weeks months and come to me if you have any other concerns. So McConnell is behind onto scenes really kind of putting in work for some of these senators that Democrats were hoping would vote for the races and they're putting in work on both sides. Yeah and very quickly before we go. I've always said that you know. I think the maximum that you could see voting for conviction is three and you'll either get three. It'll do it together and jump off together oil. Get none and and I've been asking a lot of guests which you look at it three or none. I think none but it is a rig system and and I've got an outlier of an opinion on what Nancy associated should do. I don't think you send the articles at all. Unless you see a complete change of position for Mitch McConnell. I think we except for for history that the House Impeach Donald Trump and there was such concern over rick trial in the Senate that the speaker and House Democrats decided not to refer the articles over. I don't think that's a crazy idea. I think a lot of people have thought it through and thought the exactly because it is pretty clear kind of trial. This would be if it happens. David Jolly beavers. Thank you both very much and up next. We will tell you who has the trump's above trump's the most triggered this holiday season. Hey Everyone Steve Cranky here i WanNa tell you about an NBC. We see news podcast. I'm hosting called article two inside impeachment. It's exclusively dedicated to bringing you the latest developments on the impeachment of president trump. I talked to NBC News reporters who are close to the story to break down. What's new what matters? And what it means for the two thousand twenty election and our country new episodes drop every Monday aac Wednesday and Friday search. Now wherever you're listening to this podcast subscribe for free when you look at what they did. It's rewriting history because because what trump was in the early ninety yeah. He was a tycoon. That was admired and embraced by American culture by Hollywood by the entertainment detainment industry. That's right Jesse. Long before he dared to become Christmas saving Republican demi-god in periodic stand in for Rocky Balboa. Because they look exactly alike per waters Donald Trump was a beloved cultural icon embraced aced the highest echelons of Hollywood until Canadian liberals so cruelly excise trump from a yuletide classic like home alone not won the two quoth the fail son to pick candidates. CBC under fire when Trump Cameo at home alone two disappears Christmas broadcast so the twitter mind of trump the second author. Perhaps ironically of a book called trigger. His dad's brilliant cameo was cut by mean Canadian liberals all all because he is making America. Great by tossing Brown Migrate Men Women and children into cages which is exactly what Mary Joseph and Baby. Jesus would want at Christmas time. As angels angels summoned them to flee to Egypt as refugees and Jesse waters in certain that the cameo existed in the first place because trump was so beloved by the American American people unfortunately for junior. And Jesse it seems that trump's cam you appears to have come not from adoration but because at the time he owned the Plaza Hotel where parts of home alone two were shot. According to actor and filmmaker Matt Damon Putting Donald Trump Cameo in a movie was kind of required. If you wanted to shoot in one of his hotels the deal was that if you wanted to shoot in one of his buildings you had to write him. In apart director Martin Brest had to write something into scent of a woman and the whole crew was in on it. You have to waste an hour of your day with a bull bleep shop. Donald trump walks in and Al Pacino's like Hello Mr Trump. You had to call him by name. And then he exits you. Waste a little times you can get the permit and then you can cut the scene out but I guess it home alone two. They left it in okay so not not so beloved. Oh by the way junior. This unkindest cut ball. Removing trump's ten seconds of Thespian. Brilliant in which he gives young Kevin mcallister sage advice that literally is what made mcauley coconut star. Wicked cut was not the fault of liberal trump. Laugh at her. Justin Trudeau was actually edited back in twenty fourteen gene before Donald trump even announced he was running for president and the Prime Minister of Canada was a conservative name. Steven Harper is going to be boom year in two thousand twenty for the American economy. I'm looking at grows closer to three percents to two percent. I'm looking at the Dow. Well over thirty thousand thousand. Donald Trump all the credit for good economic news and none of the blame for the bad and his supporters of so far obliged take this Washington Post profile a farmer struggling rolling to feed their family. The recent hardship is directly attributable to trump's trade wars but quote like many farmers they think their taxes. Too high the creeks and streams are over regulated plated in the trump still has their best interests at heart. What we've had unfair trade for years and years somebody had to fix it and he's trying to fix it unquote join me now? Is Democratic Senator Senator. From the State of North Dakota Byron Dorgan and Senator Dorgan thank you so much for being here tower. You Okay so let's look at the numbers. I thank. Thank you so much so if you look at the the job. Growth Chart don't trump is about in line with what President Obama's job numbers look like a lot of the economic numbers look very similar to the Obama era. uh-huh wage growth It shows increases over the past year. Wage jobs that are at the lower income scales are going up with. What's weird is that given? The economic data trump should probably be at higher approval rating than he is now a typical president would be in his personal. A lot of people leave his personal behaviors sort of detract track from his ability to take advantage of the numbers. There's a Washington Post piece. This is why trump isn't getting credit from voters for good economic news by John Sides political sides. Voters aren't giving trump much credit for the growing economy. Economy comes approval ratings haven't budged even though people's views of the economy of grow more positive since he took office in two thousand seventeen. What are you supposed? Is that disparity about that. People say the economy looks good to them but he isn't getting credit well. I think it's very much like tribal politics tribal economy. I mean you know. Republicans will give him credit for almost anything anything he he he is as you know an unusual president. There's nothing normal about him. Nothing normal about his presidency. Sort of a fabricator and a bloviating and He claims credit for everything like the rooster claiming credit for the sunrise. But here's the situation while the economy is moving forward and more jobs and so on and that's very helpful. It is also many ways unhealthy in the sense that we're adding a trillion dollars a year to the dead so this is Keynesian on steroids. Almost and then we have artificially low interest rate so this economy's being pumped up but there's GonNa be a response to that by our children and who knows how many years it will take but it may not be long when we're going to have to respond to this unbelievable amount of New Energy in terms of money put into the economy. Yeah I mean you you know the the the debt or at least a trillion of it is down through tax cuts that Paul Ryan when he was speaker pushed him pushing his probably adult life and Donald Trump signed which gave a trillion dollars lers mainly to corporations in the very very rich a lot of people saw higher taxes regular middle class as a result of it. There's also this headline that we just saw. The world's richest have gained one point two trillion dollars in two thousand nineteen as Jeff. bezos retains richest man. The richest five hundred people five hundred richest. People saw their Well surged by twenty five percent twenty. Nineteen so you have this economy with the stock market looks good and worthy macro data looks good but people have to drive lift on the side ride in order to survive and you have a lot of people going into bankruptcy because their farms are getting hit by tariffs it is like a double sort of a two tiered economy. It is. I mean those at the top the latter are doing just fine. Those at the bottom. It's kind of the cake and crumbs theory. You know Farmers have been hurt. I just wrote a book about native Americans the girl on the photographs. You go to Indian reservations. What you have to eighty percent unemployment They've been hurt so In fact there's not everybody's benefiting but it's it's still important to say. The economy is moving forward very largely debt financed in that regard but You know I I think that most Americans take a look at this guy with respect to to the potential election they say do we like him. Do we trust them. That's the way they measure most candidates for office. Do we like them. Do we trust and the fact is about sixty percent of the American people. Don't like at this guy very much. And the question of trust you know seventy eighty percent say. They don't trust him because he doesn't tell the truth so we'll see I think he. I think it's kind of disconnected from what's what's happening to the economy. He's out here by himself A lot of bad behavior and the American people know it and I think they're kinda worried about whether they wanna give someone like this a second term notwithstanding what's happening to the economy which by the way started under President Obama. I mean from a time of the month before he took office. Six hundred. Seventy thousand people. People lost their jobs in this country and so he began this economic resurgence and its continued. There's no question about that but I think the issue is going to be the president's behavior. Yeah because a lot of it is psychological right. There are people who the day before Donald Trump was inaugurated thought. We were in a recession which we weren't the day after he was inaugurated they said. Oh it's boop is also psychological gives them advice to the Democrats were running. There are a lot of senators on the ballot. And you know what message because you know. President Obama was usually reluctant to boast about the economic improvements because he was aware that there are a lot of people still suffering. Donald Trump is all boast and nets kept him. I think with his base. What what what would you advise the incoming Democratic nominee to do as far as the economy? I think you know you talk about what is important family sitting around the supper table or dinner table and and what's important to have good healthcare to have job security to have a good job. Does it pay. Well do do GRANDPA and grandma have opportunities for healthcare to my kids go to good schools. Those those are the kinds of things that people care about in their lives. And I think Democrats keep talking about those things and let the American people sort out whether they want someone such as Donald Donald Trump with all of his bad behavior you know having to pay fines for charitable organizations that he has provided most charity to himself. And so on you know let let the American people sort all this out to decide. Do they want more of this for the next four years. My best guess is not the really quickly. Well I have you here. You Know Mitch. McConnell who served in the United States Senate I do you make of his tactics regarding impeachment. Well I sat in the last Senate trial twenty years ago on impeachment. What senator McConnell did is just unfathomable to me? It's just fundamentally wrong to announce that we're going to take an oath and you have to take the oath the outlaw and raise your hand. I want to take go to be impartial. But I've already told the American people. I'm not impartial. And I've already told them that are GonNa you know I'm the foreman of the jury affect the Senate is a jury and I'm going to be on the side of the defendant and work with the defendant get acquittal. Well listen that is not the right thing to do and gives American people very little confidence in what might happen in the Senate. Yeah let let's talk a bit about your book that you mentioned. It's called the girl in the photograph and this is A. It's a very poignant story about native American girl that you came in contact attack. What's a little bit about this book? This young girl at age to living on an Indian reservation put in a foster home at a drunken party. She was beaten severely at age to Arm Leg in those broken late in a an hair pulled out at the roots late in an empty room for a couple of days. There's no medical attention She's had a very tough life. She's found and some more stability now. But I decided to write the book about the life of this young girl and Described in the larger sense. What has happened to native Americans America the last couple of centuries they were the last to get the right to vote in this country? They've really been left behind an Indian children have been left behind. Yeah absolutely and I think it's really poignant that this young girl from standing rock the standing rock reservation which we we know is also fighting just to have their land be clean and free of oil spills So a uh-huh vote even now. Yeah absolutely and having been denied the right to vote. It'll in a large part in North Dakota in the last round Senator Dorgan thank you so much for bringing that issue eighty four and thank you for being here. The book is called the girl. Thank you. Thank you sir. Have a great rest of the day thank you. Meanwhile farmers and their land or not the only things that are being threatened by the trump trump administration coming up in our next hour Texas landowners for now of target trump's desperation the most diverse Democratic primary field in his three could come down to Bernie the Bible really coming up after the break shoe loss Michigan by ten eleven thousand votes. Nine hundred thousand wanted to send a message to the Democratic Party trauma. But we're not. We're not gonNA tolerate you sending us another Republican Light Democrat if we go that route if we go that route it's guaranteed. We will lose the electoral college to come out and vote for the fighter for the person the shares their values the values of the majority of this country are the progressive values to the morning. Welcome back to. Am Joy well. Throughout all the ups ups and downs on the race for twenty twenty this year Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden have stayed remarkably steady in the polls ending. You're just about where they started it. And now the durability Bernie Sanders has the party establishment taking a second look. According to new reporting from politico democratic insiders say Sanders could very well clinched the nomination in two thousand twenty. The only other candidate they seem to see in the radar is Vice President Joe Biden so if it doesn't come down to Biden Sanders the two older straight already known white guys and what started out as a really diverse verse field full of new and fresh faces that could create. Its own dilemma. For Democrats in twenty twenty. It's actually remarkable to think that we could be headed for what amounts to a review of the primary battle two two thousand sixteen between an establishment candidate. But this time not even a potential first woman president and Bernie Sanders and his very devoted base. The race between the candidate preferred by moderates and black voters odors but who comes with two decades of research -able history and the one preferred by young progressives and the question is if Democrats learn anything new in two thousand sixteen that produces a different for an outcome from the one in twenty twenty a different outcome in twenty twenty and the one in two thousand sixteen joining me now is mid when Charles Civil Rights criminal trial attorney. Defense Attorney Michael Blake Congressional candidate and vice chair of the DNC deed over Dolla. The Dean Obaidullah show on Sirius. Xm Philip Agnew national surrogate for Bernie Sanders Sanders and Josse. Ross Co host of the indigenous pirate radio broadcast break dances with wolves. Thank you all for being here. Interesting interesting choice on where to go. I I think I'm going to go to Michael Blake. I'm GonNa make Michael. Blake go first here because it feels like we go because it does feel like something about the way that the DNC set the rules. I don't know if it's the rule setting that created this outcome but we really are looking at what started off as four hundred and fifty three candidates many of whom were people of uncommon women and LGBT. Really coming down to two older white guys. How did this happen to see everybody again? Of course go to see your joy this. This has nothing to do with rules. This is about people make individual decisions within the polls when we think about the context. Initially it was too many people on stage when it came to the debates debates then it became well now does not know people on stage. Let's make sure we're clear. First and foremost we hear often about senator. Harris ran a great campaign. Why was she not on stage? Page because of the rules already qualified when we think about what's happening respectively. Here's the core points in two thousand. Three Reverend Sharpton was at eight Percent Quinnipiac five percent in the polls essentially tied for second in South Carolina. So this is nothing to do with rules. Stop having US focused on what the party supposedly not doing. The reality is people need to focus on helping people of color. We have to make sure that we're standing up for black and Brown communities which we have been doing and at the end of the day when you ask us you never Dominican man and Tom Perez the DNC you have a Jamaican American and Michael Blake. Who is a vice chair? When seven of our officers are people of Color? It is not that we don't love people of Color we obviously support them regularly and consistently. This is about making sure we help. Everyone get in the game. Let me let me jump over to Dean Dean Gene. WHO talks to folks every day on the radio show so you get a lot of feedback because it's true? You can't say the rules when people are being asked who they want and they're telling you give us a white guy right. It's it's the voters say. Look at these two Poles. Here's the morning console. Poll look at the top of that. Poll here it is Biden still at the top at thirty one sanders. twenty-one John Warren fifteen footage nine and then it goes on down there. Michael Bloomberg has already bought six percent. So that's and it goes down from there so this is like a vote. The other real rule that seems to be in play here is the rule that I will gets to go. First and New Hampshire gets to go second because in Iowa. It's very clear right. It's it's it's Buddha judge Sanders bided warren quote. which are you get all the way down like six plays before you get to cory booker so this is also voters who are? I don't know if it's fear I don't know if it's nervous as I don't know if it's just saying a white man is the most likely to win to be trump. What what are you hearing back from voters about why? This is the choice that they're making I can. I say I want to propose new New Jersey as the first state in the future. Because I'm from Jersey. I WANNA see these kids come to baone sequel hard-working he'll get off my lawn. Buddy what are you doing. That's what I want to see. CANDIDATES VETTED COME TO JERSEY. Here's the reality. It was all clear for us in June of this year. La Times at a poll asking Democratic voters. If have you imagine the perfect candidate. What would they be? Seventy percent said white and male and that's been consistent through this was a new poll. CVS poll just two weeks ago. So in the Super Tuesday states black voters sixty percent of black voters said a white can't has a better chance of beating. Donald trump in a black candidate what I listened to people call my vice show. What I feel too is this urgency to defeat Donald trump and for some flexibility? Argument is someone who's a white male. I might not subscribe to that. I actually don't but some do because the fear that Donald trump poses to so many of our communities people of Color I'm Muslim American banning people spike at hate crimes. He gets my community. It's very real. It's very palpable. So we are concerned and we want someone who can be trump and you know what Biden and Bernie. I could see why they're up there. Liz Worn close behind and we can have all the ability but for many voters it's a white man and you've got to change that narrative or it's going to be a white man so be it. Yeah a Midwood that is true even among black voters just is when you ask black voters who they want they mostly say it is but I think it's important to talk about where that comes comes from right and I've said this before on your show your show joy when we talk about a polling when we talk about media coverage which candidates get the most coverage when we talk about what kinds of voters are constantly being polled. What kinds of voters are constantly being interviewed and asked to talk about how they feel what they want a lot of times? It's not voters that looks like me. I've never been posed any person who's ever been polled. And so when you take your ball when people call you cope from day one after trump won it's been nothing about what trump voters want. How trump voters of feeling what? The trump voters have breakfast. What did they have dinner so I think what that does is it kind of plants in the minds of a lot of people that we need to be concerned about what they want and I think a lot of people jump onto that and they don't want want to necessarily take risk and I've said this before on your show one of the things that I think? The presidency of Donald Trump has done is convinced a lot of Americans including Americans of color. That perhaps we should not take risks. But I think we ought to look back into history and look what happened when we did pick the person that we thought was safe and not the person that was energetic John Kerry people. I thought he was safe. We know what happened there. Obama was not perhaps the safe big. We know what happened there twice so I think it's into pay attention to why people are thinking this. What's driving and I think it's the media? I think it's coverage for example. You just said Michael Bloomberg brought his way into six percent. Why because he's buying his own media coverage average? Yeah it it helps you have hold media organization named after your last name that helps to trump orders had for breakfast Christmas. Let's do thank you Philip. Agnew just wanted to see a time when you can have. Christmas won't have the breakfast. But I I've been saying this to friends at all to you for all of you are my friends and the people that are also friends but this feels like we are headed toward an election. That could be much like two thousand four and I worked on that in that campaign of not on the campaign but for an associated campaign and and and this feels like an o four where you nominate someone. Who's got a lot of red flags that they don't address right which is similar twenty sixteen or it could be like nineteen seventy-two where the the the progressive part of the party says we're going forward and the country turns out to be a lot not as progressive as the progressive part of the party? Thought so so the risks of either a seventy two which the governor election or a two thousand four seem real to me. Do they seem real to you. I know that you are Bernie Sanders supporter. But what do you make of that. Insensitive risk that a lot of older voters and black voters have a sanders campaign. Could could be a seventy two well first off. I want to say on salty not. I'm missing out on the Party over there. Miss Michael Blake and everybody you feel. Listen listen I think this election actually is more like one hundred years years ago. So the candidacy of Eugene. dibbs this what we're talking about is a campaign election that is about values people want values and consistency. And so when you look look at the history of a candidate like Senator Sanders who was surging in the polls. He hasn't stayed where he is. He's actually surging. You look to someone who is clearly talked about the material conditions of working working people for the last forty years and that is what is animating people. It's not about who that person is. What is their identity? It is about a candidate who for the last forty years as has been consistent in talking about housing talking about food talking about clean water talking about the planet talking about criminal justice talking about Lgbtq Z.. btcu rights and this campaign is taken these conversations to barber shops. Where sneaker shops where at bus stops? We're taking the conversation directly to people and so what what we see is something I think more tantamount to what we saw one hundred years ago and the ascendancy of a candidate and a campaign that speaking directly to the real needs of working working people and no other candidate is doing that. When we talk about this Bernie Biden thing what we're actually talking about is somebody was an establishment who has not offered any new ideas as to the electorate specifically black people? We're going to Hughes. They're talking about their healthcare. They're talking about their parents. Healthcare the debt that they're under and these these are the things that Senator Sanders and his campaign is talking about so when we talk about the Democratic Party of the last thirty years this new but we're also talking about. Is this the Democratic Party of the next twenty years the rising electric the people who are affected every day by the corporations and what. They're doing want a candidate who's not in the same bag as them. And that's why Senator Sanders is surging in Iowa and New Hampshire in California and Nevada and South Carolina. Let me let me every point. Josse I'm going to get you in on this because very wise a friend. named Chris Matthews said to me at a speech that he gave it in Miami actually knew him personally he he gave us. We talked about the fact that politics is where you put the wedge in right and if the wedge is in between the very rich and the middle class so that the middle class ask feel more related to the poor. They feel like they're in the same boat. As the poor. Four people tend to vote for a Democratic president but if you put the wedge in between the middle class and the poor so that the middle class identifies with the rich they identify upward saying I could be it could be me at any time. They'll tend to vote for a Republican and in where we are now. Is it the biggest single pool of voters millennials. They actually more numerous or getting their either the same name number or more numerous than baby boomers and they are the generation. That's got a second or third job. It's driving lift on the side. It's got eight roommates in order to be able to live a normal sized city so that that that feels like the wedge is the first place. It's between the very rich. The five hundred people just got twenty five percent more wealth in just last year alone and and everyone else is like. Wow I have an eighth job you know what I mean so is is that where we are now where the politics is very much about where you feel you are on the economic ladder or is there something else that you think will drive it. Excuse me good morning joy going everybody. I think that the wedge is really between right now. There's a lot of US nerds talking about these polls and the average person doesn't pay attention to this. The average person pays attention to what's in their pocket book how their 401k is is working and how the economics on a daily basis as HAP- happening and how their kids are going to school and if they're able to afford that and so we're talking about a wedge between Wean those who are informed and those who are not regarding the everyday struggle and that might be an economics thing but it also might be information thing joy. I WANNA point out I know this segment is coming to a close pretty soon that that there's a people I appreciate. How you frame this question because this is putting on the burden on the Democratic Attic Party to create the enthusiasm brow people and black people showed they will come out if the Democratic Party delivers the goods to wit in two thousand sixteen? Extend the Milwaukee Indian settlement precinct voted eighty three point three percent for Bernie Sanders and pushed Bernie Sanders. Victory in the Iowa caucuses. They show that they will respond Native people certainly also black folks. Latino people who are overwhelmingly supporting Bernie have showed that they will support When when the goods foods are there and I believe that this question of whether or not you know this Sort of binary between these two white men. You couldn't be talking about two completely different enough white men they're completely different and I think we'll show that there's a progressive wing amongst people of color that are willing to support sort this white man who was very very different from the other white man Joe Biden and be willing to you know to support him in as these Democratic primaries happen Joy So let. Let's go let's go to that because you know embiid when there's also the base of the resistance to Donald Trump has been women. It's been mainly women of color but just women in general and and so does it surprise you as it does that that women have not risen further in terms of the top of the Party because Elizabeth Warren offers many of the same in policy prescriptions. That Bernie Sanders offers with somebody who is at least in. The beginning was seen by a lot of more middle class. Voters being more electable. She doesn't have a self-declared socialism issue. That would be used against her in general election. It seems to me that so much of the energy in the primary has been around getting rid of her honestly of billionaires running to stop her funding money to stop doing everything to make sure she ain't the nominee and in a way that has actually helped Bernie Sanders right because it's kind of cleared the field. Because she's the other person his his in his category. What are your thoughts in that it has? And you'll notice that up until the point Senator Harris was in the race. warned was doing quite well. And once Harris Harris decided to suspend her campaign all of a sudden all of the energy went towards Elizabeth Warren. And we've talked about this on your show before it's misogyny and you see that all the time time with the coverage of Warren's campaign particularly when you compare the coverage of her campaign the coverage of Clovis which is perhaps different 'cause Kluber star has has never really been polling very high I but when you compare the coverage of campaign to Buddha Jed who doesn't have the kind of experience that Warren has who hasn't necessarily been enjoying that microscopic lens the vetting. You have to ask yourself is it. Because she's a woman the way in which she's attack the way which she's asked to explain her her policies that you don't see people asking Biden to explain you don't see people asking a lot of the other male candidates to explain to the to the to such an extreme minute show and she constantly keeps being backed into a corner and having to explain things and so there's a lot more pressure and you can see it and and even I think in recent articles just yesterday you know how much longer before her campaign is over like. It's just a you know she's dead in the water. All these kinds of articles and I agree with you. I am surprised. I I don't see a lot of women rising up and supporting her in ways that you would expect that would put a woman the VP dean. By the way just before I go to Dean that her fundraising is down thirty percents. Yeah and that's going to be the articles right the office over. I feel like jumping. Think well first of all listen to me. I'm so sorry Jean Dean the bill are. I just urged yes. You're like the coolest guy no the second nerds by the way we're proud of. I know but I'm saying he's like okay. We're not he's cool. Let's so I love Justin and I say that I think you're sitting before this and we touched on earlier about how people are personally impacted in this economy is such an important important message. I think Democrats are seeing this idea that this economy is per for example. Trump's turn it into a miracle in reality Donald Trump is losing to donald when trump of a year ago when we had three percent. GDP growth that we have under two percent Bernie Sanders. You did a great interview with the L. A. Times and I'm not supporting any candidate per se. But he made a great point. You get a job now but it doesn't pay well the average American this year now last segment you talked about three percent wage growth. Guess what we've had two percent inflation. Any one percent sent real wage growth for the average worker in this country. Ford of ten Americans don't have forty dollars in your bank account to pay for an unknown expense in their life. Unemployment is gone up the last. You're in key. States like Michigan Wisconsin bankruptcies of Farms have gone up twenty five percent in the last year alone because we had a layoff announced in Michigan. GM plant you've had truckers suffering horrifically in this year to three times. The number of truck companies closed down this year compared to last year. Look there's a bubble in this economy. The Democrats okay. That's GonNa take the fight to that and say the rich have gotten richer. And that's not a talking point. That's the reality. How has your life? Why are you why you work in two to three jobs? Don't have enough money in the bank. If something bad happens how come. You can't scrape you just scraping by or dodgems rich friends who play golf with private country clubs. They're doing great. Of course they are. They're the wealthy. The tax cuts for the wealthy Democrats. Need to address the issue and have policy proposals like raising minimum wage. Billing Department of Labor Regulations for overtime pay the mandate and the list goes on. So I think seeding this fight on. The economy is a loser for Democrats. It's not left. I got centers versus progressive. I'm I I listened to people around the country every day. Who are suffering around this country they call my show from different industries them except the to fight? The trump on that cannot slowing down. Listen I massage and Patriarchy must be engaged with and talked about in our political discourse from home to the White House. And we have to talk about what this election is truly about. You're not going to be able to endorse your way or identify your way into the votes of women of black people of Trans people in this country. You've you've got to earn their votes and that's why this campaign is surging. It is not because people are looking at candidates saying I just want to choose a man. I want to choose a woman but black people people weren't supporting black candidates and it's because what they were bringing to. The table was not speaking to the real needs of working people. Women Have Day. Women Are Dying Hospital Hospital beds. Women are facing discrimination in the workplace. Women are not able to move about in society like anybody else in society and so until you have have a candidate who's talking about policies that say we're going to have housing for all because we already have housing for some. We're going to have healthcare for all because we already have health care for some that celts about having women in closing the pay gap between women and men and the job making sure that women have the care that they need. These are the issues that speak to everyday people and speak to women and so if the people are looking at the candidates and saying I don't really care what you look like but what are you saying. What are you bringing to the table? And also what have you been talking about for the last twenty or thirty years. We have counted this who switched parties. We have candidates who have chosen positions and backed away from it and the voters are responding viscerally. Because we know we've heard promises of hope and change and we need a candidate and a campaign and that's was representing the Sanders campaign. We are taking the political conversation to everyday people last week. We had a million dollars dollars raised in one day and small dollar donations. I think at some point we've got to trust people what they're saying and they're saying they want a campaign and a movement to the White House AH stands for them and I think people on the right are looking for that. And that's what we've seen and that is what has been animated by the Sanders Campaign and yes. Some of the other people are plummeting but it's not not solely because of who they are but we have to make sure that this is very granular. We've been talking about this too high a level right now. I mentioned this to a few few people recently. I was with my mother last night in the art or two in the morning. And you see I informs that what people are dealing with on the ground now you know and when people are trying to figure out whether it be dealing with flu dino of asthma dealing with housing being bills. I don't hear anyone asking me about the polls I don't hear anyone asking me about what's going on in DC. They want to understand how we going to help them. And you come from my communities like ours in the South Bronx where all different communities are coming together and we are afraid of what will happen when it comes to ice and people are wondering why is it easy unleaded gas and lead free paint. They want to understand Dan. How are you helping them get a job to pay the bills that is what is our responsibility as Democrats and that is what we're doing and I wanna be clear about that because too often? I hear that Democrats are being silent. This conversation we are not not too often. This has to be a space of twenty nine thousand nine of the Year of return twenty twenty s to be about perfect vision. And that's making it very clear. Here is the vision that we believe we are going going to fight for you. We are going to help you when people are asking you to go to website is not because of some theoretical exercise is because those of us that are running for office and those who believe in the cause. Need your helped to drive home the message that we are fighting for you not the other side. Let me give Josse the last word on this. Because there's a there's a there's a Guy Adam gentlemen love. Having the show began again. It's easy to booking but used to work for Harry Reid The great strategist and former Senate majority leader under the Democratic Party and he wrote a piece saying that he thinks that what needs needs to happen for the Democratic Party is to make quick nomination and then try to consolidate the party and he believes it should be sanders a warrant because to the point that I think a lot of you are making. It's the progressive wing of the Party. That has the energy has the youth behind it and has the movement quality. Do you agree that the Democrats should do is to try to nominate quickly the and consolidate. Because we'll just to be honest. Those who who are ever been on twitter know that there's some toxicity still between the sanders world and some of their more serious supporters and people who voted for Hillary Clinton met is still there that is not gone and consolidating. Everyone behind one candidate when that still exists is not going to be easy. A lot of people have a lot of feelings than have not ended. Do you think it would make do the party. Well to try to nominate quickly and try to consolidate everyone behind someone soon and not drag it out. Well I think first of all that it would do the world will and I think the world is watching us to everybody. Wants to get rid of this this racist and the White House and they WANNA do that. They're just unclear how they're make no mistake. What we're seeing now is fear? We're seeing seeing people. Say people are not supporting Joe Biden because they want Joe Biden and the office because he excites them. He ignites them to WANNA do action. They're saying this is the most I This is the the the white man the old white man with the most gravitas that potentially could occupy that seat as the president. That's not Donald Trump. That's all that is it's absolutely the progressives are bringing the energy they're bringing the phone they're bringing the flavor whether you're talking about Elizabeth Warren whether you're talking about Bernie Sanders offers and again. I want to give back to the message. That people of color absolutely will turn out with enthusiasm with with with clapping their hands and ready ready to move and action. If the Democrats delivered the goods we saw that in two thousand eight we saw that in two thousand twelve I gave the example of eight of natives overwhelmingly well mainly vote Democrat when the goods are there. We need a candidate that elicits excitement that elicit something more and I see people on my twitter feed feed. When I say responses like this that say well just getting? Donald Trump is excitement enough. No we actually need vision. I heard twenty twenty vision. That's what we need in two thousand twenty. We need somebody that can see where we're going. Not just to repudiate where we've been well. This is a good panel for the Democratic Party to listen to and luckily we we have the guy who formerly one the week here Michael Blakey go back and tell your friends at the. Ds's we talk here. We'll take it back to the Bronx. Don't worry I take it back to the Bronx Michael Goodwin Charles Charles. Michael Blake Dean overall. Philip Agnew Jessie Rodriguez panel haven't back. Thank you guys very much and up next thank you. Donald Trump is coming to take your land ticks Texans next. Is there any amount of money where you would be willing to sell. If you talk to me. My sister and my brother we would say no because it has nothing to do with money. We want our land. No amount of money is going to make us happy. It is unclear what Donald Trump won't do to get his precious border wall. He's shut down. The government declared a national emergency and even taking money away from the military all to make good on his central the campaign promise to build a wall across the southern border to keep Brown migrants out a wall that Mexico was supposed to pay for now. Texas landowners are feeling the brunt of trump's desperation in the administration begins using eminent domain to forcefully seize the property of private landowners to replace their ranches and fields with the wall. Joining me now is David Corn of Mother Jones. And this is the thing that we we've talked. I knew it was going to. If you're going to build a land Build a border wall across southern border. The people who own land or who you have to go through to get it. Yes and so you have a piece here landowners talented New York Times. Dr Drake six Mister Drake's sixty-nine draw doubts. The Wall will do much to stop apple legal immigration and though he supports the president ordered it he believes that the constructed wall the construction will ruin his life but selling land early on seemed better and cheaper than facing the government in court only having to take the land way anyway He reason so. People who supported trump voted for the wall are now going to have had their land taken from them. You know I circled that sentence in the same piece doubts. The Wall will do much to stop illegal immigration. They want it. That's the bottom line hint. That really is the bottom line you you know. The government can use eminent domain when it has an emergency to take land for people to protect the country. Do things that worthwhile the issue here is that this wall is not working. We're seeing the video of people climbing over the parts that have been built. There's more tunnels as well ultra-light planes being used it's not effective in the people Who Support Trump? Who Live at the border itself? Say That so at some point. It's it's only the biggest broken promise. He's made because Mexico eight ain't paying for this. It's inefficient it's symbolic it's psychological as you say but it's not good policy and it's particularly bad policy if you don't you're tied border security to dealing with immigrants who get here or people who are here undocumented right but the thing is is that whether it's in Gaza where Israel built built a wall or whether it's in Berlin the you know the old Soviet Union built a wall it is mainly psychological. It's meant to make people feel trapped in or make people feel locked out right this. It's four his base keeping these immigrants. These particular immigrants out is why they voted for him breakaway everything else so why they supported. That is the main. Tell you an interesting story when I was talking to trump advisors early in the campaign. You know he really wasn't able to talk about too many policies the one and they tried to brief him and he just wouldn't. I'm listening care though so they always gave him a re whatever his event was. Yep they always give them a reason to talk about the wall because he he sits psychological. Go get him and he's a builder and he knows that you know he's been playing the race card. This is a one you know. He doesn't care about too many things in the world other than himself he cares about the wall he cares. Here's SAM number. We've talked about this. One of his former advisers told me this story is Roger Stone Idea. here's another piece is marketwatch. Almost no land has been taken so far but department department of Justice lawyers have filed three lawsuits just this month seeking to take property from landowners. The agency says it's ready to many more petitions to take private land in the coming coming weeks. You know going all the way back. To the Supreme Court cases the Conservatives have usually been against the takings clause there's a fifth amendment to the constitution situation. This is what the Fifth Amendment says. No private property shall not be taken for public use without just compensation thus whenever the United States acquires a property. Do It don't mean it has a constitutional national responsibility to justify to justly compensate the property owner for the fair market value of the property. So they're going to use this constitutional provision to take AAC this land. There's nothing these people can really ultimately do about Abraham but these people who want the wall it striking to me that these people are willing to go to court and lose their own land lose their ranches whether well they're telling you they they basically cannot keep the land if the governor comes in and so that's why some of that the question is whether they go to to court and try to get the court to force the government. I hate them more than the government. I offer up a lot of these people including the guy featured in the New York Times. I've decided that it's too onerous. Yeah just going to cave in and take what they can and you know the building. These divides their property and there are gates. So this is the wall that doesn't work we already and they're going to be gape port ways openings in an nfl some of their land will now be in Mexico and some of the the other thing was like so this is not being built on the border. Right this is being built intent inland from the border. And so what they're saying is that the land between the border now defense defense is GonNa come under the control of the cartels so this is like giving a strip of of America away to the Mexican cartels. Yeah it's incredible. Well here's another pieces of the Washington Post take the land trump wants border wall. He wants it black and he wanted by election day because he promised to do. And it's very hard. Actually people don't really difficult. It is for presidents to implement the things that they say they're going to do on the intro he's determined to do it. Says trump suggested he would pardon the officials if they just go ahead set and just take it. He's waved off worries about contracting contracting decision. The use of eminent domain saint take the land according to officials according to his that should be a campaign under with his own base because he is saying out of his mouth. Take these people's land. Whoa these are mainly White Republican tax landowners? People who've built businesses had family farms for for decades. But you know what has happened with the base and with the Party itself. It's become a cult if not coatlike so whatever trump says they go that way and you know. Imagine imagine if Obama had promised to have Mexico pay for something and then didn't it'd be on Fox News around you know twenty four seven you know th. They've dropped that you know they. They will follow his bombast in any direction. It goes no matter who bulldozes so these poor people you know not poor. They're well to do be what landowners owners in the south who are being trampled by the federal government but the big government James Big government near trump's people are not gonNa care about what we saw the same thing with a lot of these farmers armor you know the the the handouts the welfare checks are mainly go into big landowners and corporate farms the little landowners record suicides. We have record bankruptcies people are suffering. They're still still gonNA vote for him because they're saying well you know he's trying to do the right thing but I think he's loose the soybean farmers Peter they've lost their market and the the problem is when you lose the market get back other people other people come in and they take it and then the Chinese wherever st stick with them so my guess is that. Meanwhile he's you know anecdotally we hear a lot of them saying they still support trump. There will be a drop off of a few points in those states in an close election. That could matter especially even that may be that they have to come out and vote for Biden Elizabeth Warren Pretty Sanders. It's if they don't turn out for trump and some close states. I mean look what happened. Kentucky Eastern Coal Count Cook County's went for the Democrat over the Republican government. And by the way also what other would also also happening Kentucky. Black voters came out in huge numbers and people who turned out out that they like obamacare. 'cause they found connect is obamacare. Like that Matt Bevin took away their four hundred thousand people try to four hundred thousand people's healthcare way. That was a problem to Dave. The corn always wanted to talk to you all the scoops. You gotta come back and get some of those during the election coming up. Evangelical Support for Donald Trump is showing cracks. Say with US and tomorrow on our very last episode of am joy for this entire decade. Our All star panel. We'll tell you who won the year the first so much more active when Jesus was falsely accused use of treason pontius pilot gave. Jesus the opportunity to face his accusers. During the trial Pontius pilot afforded more rights to Jesus than the Democrats Democrats have afforded this president and this process. I mean how dare you give. Donald Trump fewer rates are more rights and Jesus Certain Republicans left contorted themselves to elevate donald trump to biblical status. There are signs of cracks in trump's so far steadfast evangelical support ever since the Evangelical magazine Christianity Today called for his removal from office. We have seen such cracks but as my next guest points out that trump still falls short to bishop William Barber Co chairman of the Poor People's campaign and author author of revive us again vision and action in more organized and Bishop Barber. Thank you so much for being here. It's always good to talk to you. Thank you so much. Thank you in comparison to Jesus Pontius pilot was he tried to say like how dare you give Donald Trump more rights than Jesus. That's what that boils down to which is absolutely insane. bue and Johnson wasn't Hargrove are also friend of the show wrote a piece for the nation. And here's the headline of it. True religious faith demands that unwavering wavering rebuke of trumpism. And here's a bit from it. The only thing more problematic than no critique is an anemic critique that focuses attention solely on an individual's moral failings and doesn't lead people to interrogate their own commitment to immoral policies. That are hurting real people. Please explain because you wrote this in response to the Christiani today rebuke of trump. That got so much praise. Yeah you know joy. There's some benefit of course to the critique but there's a major flaw and it's a flawed has been in America for a long time and that is when you're willing to condemn someone's personal morality but not condemned the policies that's like saying a slave master as long as he's good to slavery is all right right prophetic. Christianity always says that faith is political. But it's the politics of God is not the politics of any party and you must challenge whoever those in power in the way that they treat the immigrant the poor the sick women and children and so when we look at that you can't just say trump is immoral and his personal action. You have to critique his immoral policies like attacks on the poor like caging women and children like giving tax breaks to corporations but taking money from the needy like appointing judges who want to undo civil rights and undo voting rights but give more power to corporations like supporting uh-huh gun extremism and denying healthcare. When you look at a Jesus base morale in out of GOP rally and a constitutional route to all of those things fall short and are in essence impeachable because they contradict the essence of what True Biblical Evangelical Ism is all about and so when you have the Christian Post which said that Christianity today which was founded by no? It wasn't part of our by billy billy. Graham Called an elitist for calling trump's impeachments attacks on them essentially and then being saying that Christianity was wrong for doing that. What what do you base the ongoing support for? Donald Trump among very strong support among White Evangelical Christians despite the fact that as you said Christianity is so rooted in the idea of caring for the poor the immigrant and a stranger. Well you know joy in this country we have a long history you know. Trump is is not just somebody. That's something that just came along and support for him is not just something that just happened. From slave master religion to the spiritual virtual mobilization that tried to overturn the new deal to religious who tried to use Christianity support. Jim Crow right on up to so call. White Evangelical Alec of Losing Tons of money has been have been spent to deceived a public and a whole lot of church folk tons of money have been in an attempt to use. This kind of false Distorted morality wrapped in some kind of religious covering to to in fact cover up for injustice and has always been a need for a kind of prophetic Christianity. That's what pushed forward the abolition movement. That's is what supported women's suffrage movement. That's what support of the Social Gospel Movement. That's what supported the civil rights movement. So we've always had these two strands going on and trump trump is just the latest saint. If you will of this distorted morality that is why we organized people all over the country. You know dropping in Kentucky where people evangelical and I've Seen White Kentucky inns come together with black folk who also evangelical. They may not use the term and come together recent and vote out our governor and the governor came to power and he began to implement Some of the programs of the poor people's campaign and national call for Revival Revival. That's why on June twentieth twenty twenty. We are gathering thousands of people in Washington DC saying look there are moral issue systemic racism systemic poverty ecological devastation the war economy and this false distorted that we must address and what concerns me. Most find. The joy is that there are a hundred and fought AMELEAN low wealth and poor Americans in this country. Sixty six million of them are white and many of them are hurt by these. So called Evangelical Evangelical policies and but we're seeing breaks. Young people are breaking and once people began to see what's really going on. What's really going on to this really? What about abortion? You know. This is about major positive money trying to put a hole in place. People who are committed to corporate corporate greed and corporate power and not really to the fundamental foundations of Christianity. Do you. Are you surprised that there has not been more vociferous outcry about the fact that the trump administration is about to change the social security disability. It come Rules so that generally thousands and thousands of people will be kicked off the people who get snapped thousands or about to be kicked off. I mean there really is firstly this Christmas season. That's pretty shocking set of policies. There hasn't been that much outcry. I well exactly right. I think we have in the in our campaign You know we're doing this. We must do more to all over the country and people outcry. But here's what I see as a major problem. We've had thirty three debates. I heard your panel earlier but we've had thirty three debate since two thousand sixteen and not one on poverty poverty and the policies that affect the poor. And I'd say the Democrats we've got to change that we cannot keep ignoring two hundred and forty million poor people or all we cannot keep ignoring these policies. That trump putting in place and not deal with them in a from away we have to speak out against these policies. The last presidential. Oh candidate that ever really talked with this league poverty. John People up and look that up. Is Frederick William Bar Bishop Barbara. Thank you very much. So it's great to talk to you. Thank you very much have a great holiday audie season. Thank you and up next by panel predict the Prosecution imprisonments the pardons of twenty twenty as the New Year begins. We look forward to what will happen. And what twenty twenty. We'll bring in our legal panel. Oh predicts who may be prosecuted imprisoned or pardoned in the your head out is professor at the new school Mayawati's former US attorney Barbara mcquade and former US attorney. Joyce Vince pardons prosecutions in prison. Maya Wiley who will be pardoned prosecutor imprisoned in your view into twenty. Well I'M GONNA go out on a limb and say prosecuted Rudy Giuliani which is not the same thing as surly imprisoned right. Now we don't know what the evidence is. There's just so much smoke here and it's not just related to Ukraine. We all have been following. The relationship between Rudy Giuliani his activities. Whether other not that's going to be connected to campaign finance violations is obviously one legal question but subpoenas issued by the Southern District of New York seeking documents related related to money laundering related to wire fraud and we know that Rudy. Giuliani has a wide variety of consulting practices that have related to for example hampel Iranian former Iranian terrorist group. That was literally on the terrorist list. Up until two thousand twelve responsible for killing six Americans and and Rudy Giuliani's one of his partners former. US Attorney Mike. McKenzie actually registered as a foreign agent for this group M. E. K. MAC in Just recently and Rudy. Giuliani did not and they were in many meetings together with this group. So there's that their questions around payments he's received see from a Turkish bank. There's a lot of following the money here. And we know that left Parnassus who has been indicted by the Southern District of New York related to it whether or not he's been using foreign dollars to influence U. S. elections is cooperating and is talking among other things about Rudy Giuliani. So and he has a joint defense agreement with free men who was also engaged in some Ukrainian activities. There's so much there that I'm just GonNa go out on that limb. Wow Levin Ego or make a return in our who's going to be pardoned prosecutor. And how ironic would it be if the guy who used to work for. The southern district of New York work gets prosecuted by the Southern District and just for fun fact nerds at home. Any case stands for Dean Aycock. Look it up. Let's go to Barbara Liberal Quaid Barbara mcquade who gets pardon per US acquitted or imprisoned. I'm GonNa Choose the pardon car joy in order to talk about Roger Your Stone I think he is the one most likely to be pardoned. Twenty twenty president trump will either have been defeated and serving out the end of his lame duck term at the end of twenty twenty or he will be having been re elected will be empowered to pardon anyone. He chooses not having to worry about reelection. And so I see him pardoning Roger. I don't scheduled to be sentenced in February His his range could be anywhere from one to seven years depending on what sentencing enhancements the judge chooses to tack onto his sentence. He'll likely report three months after that in May so he will be six months into his sentence. I would say in December of twenty twenty twenty and could look for a pardon. You might also see manafort. Get a pardon of someone I think will not get a pardon would be Michael Cohen. Because as we know president the trump values above loyalty to the United States not to the constitution but to him. And so I see stone and Manafort getting pardons but not Michael Cohen very interesting. Yeah I was GonNa ask you when you said Roger Stone whether Manafort might not be the smarter pardon because if you think about Donald Trump session with Ukraine it's partly about manafort going down in that Black Ledger scandal in which manafort was found to have made millions of dollars in illicit payments from the previous president of Ukraine the Pro Russia guy and trump is obsessed with it. He's obsessed with the idea. That things manafort got a raw deal so you put him second on your list. You think stone has more dirt. You think that's why he he lets them off. Because trump is not exactly the most compassionate guy you think stones more likely to get it Manafort's though I think he wants the The Council of Roger Stone. I think I just don't as someone who has a long history. There's a dirty. trickster has been valued confidant and I think he wants him back in the fold so he can get some impeachment advice very savvy I D it will joyce fans your left to bring the rear with this and you've gotta come hard because we've had Giuliani thrown out there. We've had Roger Stone that manafort thrown out there. Sorry Michael Cohen. He's not not in there. Who Do you think might be pardoned prosecuted or imprisoned choice? I have a little bit of an outlier pick here joy. My my pick is a pardon. Excuse me for. Congressman Duncan Hunter California Congressman Conservative from San Diego. One of president trump's first I supporters in Congress. You may remember that hunter was indicted for abusing campaign funds. This was the guy who went out to golf courses and bought himself clothing in the pro shop claiming that it was money being used as donation for wounded warriors projects. He'll be convicted or he's pleaded guilty. He'll be sentenced in early February. I think that there may be a high political cost to the president for issuing apartment to Manafort to Flynn as is barb says to stone too early in the game but the president loves the pardon power and a pardon of hunter would be a great way to signal to these other people that they should stay loyal that they shouldn't offer testimony during impeachment that would damage the president that he will use the power. Pardon power to help them. Come out when the time comes just not too early so I think we might see a pardon like this much like. He dangled hardens during the molar. Investigation period. Red as a way of messaging to his people to stay strong to stay loyal to stay in his camp. Wow that is a bold prediction. It sounds like Mr Hunter Might WanNa run Donald Trump's next charity because he sounds like just the guy he seems to be just on brand. I have these sisters and lock here. I want to ask a quick lightning round doc on whether or not you believe that there will be an impeachment full trial in the United States Senate before by spring of next year. Maya Maya will there be a full trial in the Senate a full trial well not by my definition of full trial because my definition. We'd have all the documents that Congress asked foreign. We'd have had all the witnesses and even Chuck Schumer. Has I think from a strategic standpoint asked for only a couple although key witnesses to be shore war so I would say looks like we have an opportunity for a few witnesses potential eight but definitely not full Barbara mcquade full trial Fahey trial no trial. I think they're probably will but I think if Nancy Pelosi were really sure she'd hold off until the Supreme Court rules in June about whether all of these documents have to be turned turned over and president trump can claim absolute immunity because with all of those documents with witnesses like Don mcgann. I think it changes the outcome substantially the likelihood of a conviction of of removal from office increases substantially. If you have all of that information so I think that would be a shrewd move by Speaker Pelosi former mcquaid not a political analyst going or political advice giver. But giving some advice that would place that trial right before the conventions very savvy. Joyce he's dance full trial fakey trial trial. I'm with my I think we'll see a partial trial. Ultimately there will be enough of political pressure on Mitch. McConnell he'll have to permit some form of partial witness testimony but I don't think shimmer gets all four witnesses that he wants there's testimony would be devastating to the president. He can't afford to do that all right. It's going to be very interesting. Maya Wiley Barbara Quaid enjoys fan select called Mar sisters-in-law. Thank you very much appreciate tate you guys more after the break. Hey everyone it's Chris. As thanks for listening now I want to invite you to talk to us here at MSNBC. We'd like to know more about so you and the topics you would be interested in hearing about as we look to launch new podcasts. Text podcast to six eight six six and we'll talk to you a link to a short survey perfect again. Text the word podcast. Two six six eight six six standard text messaging rates. Apply your input matters and we're looking forward to hearing from you.

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John Lewis + John Salley Are Black In America

The Rich Roll Podcast

1:46:29 hr | Last month

John Lewis + John Salley Are Black In America

"The. You have to understand that everybody has to speak up. When you hear something racist, you see something races. Speak up about it. I think people are too uncomfortable with being shunned. Like no, you're not going to be liked by everybody, but somebody's GonNa hate you. Let them hate you for doing the right thing. You know there's a lot of people like I. Notice wrong over there, but I'm not gonNA. Say anything because family and friends might not talk to me all right if those people don't want to talk to you for doing the right thing that's showing you. Their character is black. Folks need to say enough is enough and white. Folks need to say what you need. Data change being pro black, not anti way, hate white people, but with just one police. Brutality fixed. We just want cops. Stop killing us the thing that everybody is writing and protesting. Is Not I'm black you're white. What we're protesting is police brutality Is Tom the ended and only way to end? It is together. That's John Lewis and John Salley. This week. On the ritual podcast. Rich role podcast. Hey everybody, welcome to the PODCAST. Today's episode is brought to you by ten thousand, the makers of the best highest quality, most bad ass workout shorts in the known universe. I spend more time in running shorts than I do in normal clothes and basically what I found is that some of them look cool others perform. Most of them fall apart too quickly. A lot of them are ridiculous, or they lack certain features that are important to me like a decent pocket that fits my phone snugly or aligning. That doesn't shave my inner thigh ten thousand assault all these issues and just does what I need my shorts to do. They fit great. They look handsome. There super comfortable. They last forever. The fabrics are anti odor, and as a direct to consumer company. They cut out the retail middleman, so you get premium fabrics, trims and techniques that other brands simply can't afford. 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One I've got my Wu which has been incredibly helpful in educating me about how my sleep patterns, which are so often overlooked by the way, my heart, rate variability, and my training calculated as daily strain, all inform my day in day out ability to recover, which is such a crucial aspect of peak performance. woop is basically a fitness tracker device that Peres with your phone by WOOP APP and throughout the day and night captures set of biomarkers which are then analyzed and synthesized to provide you with helpful data and feedback on how your body is responding to rest to training to strain to meditation, and then provides insights and recommendations to help you dial in your daily routine so that you can perform optimally. They've got tons of stylish respond options to choose from plus the ability to create teams with your friends which I love it really. Really helps, keep me accountable with some of my buddies like Stevo Phil Geiman pose ner and my main man decay. So if you're looking to be smarter about how you sleep, recover and train, so you can be at your best. You've gotta get whoop for my listeners. Whoop is now offering fifteen percent off when you use the code rich role at checkout go to whoop dot, com, that's W. H., o., p., DOT, com, and use the code ritual at checkout to save fifteen percents off your order. Unlock your best self today with. Okay, my guest today are good friends. John Lewis and John Salley. Mr Sally is a straight up legend, the first basketball player in NBA history to win four championships with three different teams, the Pistons the Bulls and the Lakers in three different decades. How about that? Since retiring in two thousand John, Benet consistent presence on television and radio, appearing on countless programs, and even creating many of his own shows over the years. He's also a longtime Vegan, a passionate animal wrightson, healthy nutrition advocate for many years something that we discussed at length in his first appearance on the podcast back in two thousand fifteen. That was episode one eighty. John is also an absolutely relentless entrepreneur. He's got his hands in more businesses than I can count from Vegan wind cannabis and his latest Venture Cafe Organics, which is a brand new plant based restaurant, which just opened last week I believe in San Bernardino, the intention being to put an end to the food deserts that play the black and brown communities that reside there. John Lewis Aka the Bass Vegan is public speaker is a personal trainer. He's also an entrepreneur, a longtime friend, just one of the friendliest most positive personalities in the Vegan movement who has taken a new career turn lately as a filmmaker partnering up with our Mutual Friend Keegan coon. You might know as the director behind CAL spiracy. What the health and running for good. On this powerful new documentary, they're collaborating on called. They're trying to kill us. which takes a look at the impact of food and health injustice on disenfranchised African American communities, which is also a subject I- I explored. With Mr Lewis in our first podcast together back in two thousand sixteen that was upset to sixty. We're going to break it all down today. Black lives matter the. US! Police misconduct the nature of systemic racism. The role religious institutions play in embedding white supremacy. The importance of black leadership and black entrepreneurship. Food and Justice of course, and what is required of all of us to make things right including what black and brown communities need from white allies so that we can grow change. Do better together. I should say that the conversation about the movie. They're trying to kill us. which takes place near the end of the podcast was a bit briefer than I would have preferred, but. I will definitely have John Lewis and Keegan coon back on the show to discuss the documentary in detail upon its completion, which is near and promises to be quite powerful in the meantime I encourage you to check out the incredibly compelling trailer for the documentary posted on Instagram Page on I. Believe June twenty fourth. And finally this one, which is a bit all over the place at times. Both. John's are prone to Tangents, Sally Sally. That's why we love him. Is First of all packed with expletives, so pop on the ear buds if you got kiddos in the backseat. And it's also provocative. I suspect might be uncomfortable for some navy for many at the same time. These guys are a total blast. Their fun I love them dearly. Both of them so strap in. And prepare for the testimony of John Lewis. And John Salley. So Why don't we just start with? What's going on like? Give me your take on where we're at right now I. Really Want to hear your perspective on what you think is going on. Right I just feels like. Feels like we're out of spite where people realize that they have to use your voice now. And I mean everybody like we're starting to see the team effort to. Battle racism like. We realized black people can't do it alone. And White people have to speak up and I'm starting to see this actually was happening. but I won't I. Every person out there does helping US thinking about helping. I want you to understand that there's probably not going to be in the awards. There's GonNa. Be any PAT on the back. There's not gonna be a five like you're doing it just because you know what's right. And I think as long as they understand that you know because I feel like well. I I went to this March. It's like yeah, that's great. But. There's a lot more going on. As far as everything that's going on I, think has been going on is just getting revealed. Yeah, this is not anything new a main. Not the, call him out but jobs the older than me, so he's seeing more than me men. Just from like I grew up in Ferguson. We talked about before. Yeah, I've seen. Worse almost you know, so it's just like. It's time to end ended and the only way to end together, yeah. Yeah I. Mean I think they're they're. Look those changes at the highest level politically Require certain level of will right and that will is a reflection of popular support, and I've never seen this level of support, so it's about figuring out how to harness that and channel it in the right direction so that it doesn't just dissipate, and then we're back to some version of of normal because. and I think like what we don't want to do is make the mistake of what happened with Ferguson like we talked about Ferguson. Last time growing up there and everything had happened there two thousand fourteen and I think there was a sense that after that. We're going to be some changes and we didn't really see that right. This does feel different to me I don't know if it does to, you know. I think there's an opportunity here. I! Tell me. On I know I'm sitting. I told I told John Before. I said I'm required most of the time I don't want you to be quiet. My pace is that. I'm fifty six years old. So in nineteen, sixty four, the Civil Rights Act with past so if you were born before nineteen sixty four. Black folks had no civil right. and. We still had to fight to the point where Martin Luther. King got killed four years later and then the riots then. Forty seven days after the riot, the Civil Rights Act. was enacted That's when it took effect it got gotta go literally the only way this country or most people have ever ever ever. Dealt with things is when it hurt them and they pocket. Though I think it's the right thing to do. Not I. Don't think anybody's stuff should be burned down. Anybody should be in this situation, but you know what. From what it seems like. It seems like it's a lot of talk. And it does not feel real. So the change doesn't have to come. A! John's have both sides the change. The reason what he means by the change gotta come from both sides is black folk need to say enough is enough and white. Folks need to say what do you need? That's change they can't help us. Why folks can't help us, boss selves and we got do it this way period like. As we money we we do. We got we got a now. Crowd Fund and Sauce to ourselves. We now have to build things That help us as community. We now have to separate like we. We gotta take a second step away. Integration was at this point. We'd love to allies, but we as black folk gust up way. Step away and figure out. Which one of US Candice Oh Owens. Which one of us like killing Mike? Yeah, that's the difference and this is the problem when you separate everybody stays sip, but we have to pick a side we have added say will go this way, or we're going to go that way and we have to make a decision that. Decide! Raise their ways and those on decide raised as before we try to mirror. We try to put it together. And what we got was a Vietnam War and drugs in our community. I was ten. So we gotta change that look. I think we gotta be. We got to act like Americans when we didn't when they no longer wanted to be subjects of Britain. And Malcolm said you know if you talk about a revolution. Does nothing nice about? It's nothing. Shoot about it and if it doesn't. If it doesn't. We're going to go back to the norm. Assey and the normalcy was wrong. And, that's why when years you know. Make America great game like when the fuck was a great I like you know like we had some moments. You know like put it this way. For people out there that are listed when they when you when your rebuttal is black people had. Had A good. They had Michael Jordan, or they had a brag about. If you can only think of five people as the barometer of we had a good, that's not good what I'm saying like and people that. Everyone knows it wasn't good the dealers. What we'RE GONNA DO? Like. We send money to the NCAA NCA in WCBS. To. Me Right. End of ACP, do we send the money to black lives matters what happens when you send them money there when they put this in, are we going to hit corruption? And this guy bought Bentley and three houses. What what what are we gonna hear what what is going to be the move? We send it to Minister, Farrakhan. Do We senator Al Sharpton? Do Senate to Dr. Omar Johnson like. We literally need leadership. One one thought process I would say And I don't know if it needs to be led by religious fraction. I was going to post something out of the day enrich. This is the deal I'm on. This show 'cause John asked me to be on. And I said I here reluctantly. No, no, no. Cost angry. Because I'm enraged, but you know me being a a Buddhist. You've ever react in anger, but. I got seventy daughter twenty three Oh. Daughter, who say to me, how'd you get this far? Like I was in charge right, but then I'm like. Yeah, how did that? Why did I? Post it on my post, it said. No you position. Make your choice. Now. And I was literally to as many black folks that because they knew what it was like. You're going to play a bag You're going, GonNa play the front, and you're going to sit in the house. You going to be in a field. All those different words came about. and. I was like we have to literally unlearn everything. If we don't unlearn it. WE'RE GONNA start acting like my boy Simon. What's that Salomon said he had a book called Black Privilege. And people like what are you talking about? And he was like he got to think about it. He was like sometime. We act in a certain way. As if we're on, this is looking at black people like what the hell do when we supposed to be looking at us like what the hell. So. I just said. Pick your pick pick exactly what position you WANNA be in history. Do you WANNA spark? That's why. I decided to open up my own stuff. We're GONNA things and I'm making everybody else money posting stuff when I was like I. Don't if I don't show these cats. Especially nowadays financial Freedom Literacy growth and invested into my own thought, and and this is why. No one else can do. Yeah, well, you're both guys are black business owners and you got a million businesses right? I mean I can't keep track to cheat to change a lot I. have to ask the caller John Sometimes. Is Really. You. Know what is called a seventy seventy two means of ince a diversified. Have like literally the seventy two names of God in Hebrew, so little of you can have seventy two streams of income. As we not only help yourself you helping everybody really societas so I have seven right now. Right. Pat. Your Vegan Smart Right Smart Vegan as a corporation to in the production company hungry for justice. And something we you know people don't realize like the black dollar. Black consumer spent one point two trillion dollars a year. How many black businesses are put up front? To make their money, is that you're spending is going all the way from your community or your people now is like. Oh, well, what if you invested that back into the community back into black corporations, and in other black corporations come about it just a trickle of failure. You know at one point two trillion and a lot of money. There's a lot of baby shoes. You know what I'm saying. It's not. Is Not going back to the black community. Though so spin is all going out is not coming back in. So. How do you catalyze? preneurs hip in your community. Why we open up planet, health and Compton. 5-for-6 Wisconsin your restaurant. Yeah, so it's a trip, 'cause it's a small restaurant par. But it was like a strip mall, and then it had like a empty lot next to it so I can touch a Guy Moses who was making generators to make make water out of the atmosphere and. hopefully GonNa talk to Ron Finlay again about putting a farmer's market there and then we so here. Coffee, there's a stage for people to talk and get the words out. Things Call Small Cafe, and then it's clothing store, but what all stuff made in la so literally we did that across the street from new body got to say that new era because we want to just take over Compton Avenue I just that mentality, and then opened up plant organics Cafe Au. In San Bernardino in a brow neighborhood, so wanted a black neighborhood and wanted to Brown neighborhood and health and wellness, so it still fits. Will what we do, yeah. But it's. I wanted to get rid of the. The I wanted to make choices I wanted to get rid of the the lack of food, lack of knowledge and health in the Black Community right. I want to get back to one thing. He said earlier about about leadership right now, you know what different about this moment versus sixty four mlk Malcolm X. is that there is no iconic leader at the moment for this. That leadership is distributed and. How does that impact this movement like both of you? Guys are amongst those leaders both have huge profiles. You people who really care what you think and I'm sure you take that responsibility seriously and think long and hard about how you message to your respective communities, but you know what does leadership mean in? This moment and block matter. It means everything I'll tell you because a way everybody is getting. The information is literally the same way it's it's it's not diverse, so all the information comes from television and Instagram, so you're not. You don't have a paper that had been. Are you have a couple of papers, but none debt? We don't go and pick up the paper now and read it the same way. Things can be blocked on on on facebook and Instagram, and and you too, and knows other sauces. We get information from it is no We have to. We have the paper in you know in Inglewood, but you know it's not that everybody's running out to see what the news is where used to turn it on CNN and believe in that used turn on Fox and believe that. So the problem with the leadership is who trust to be one hundred percent on this side, and Never GonNa Waiver and the only person that was like that was common cabinet. Of. Cabinet put his neck on a show like Muhammad Ali did. And But he's not saying hey. I want to be leader of this movement. Right so the problem is. We just have to find out where you know. Do you go after a celebrity? Do you listen to Dave? Chapelle the check like we don't know that Dick Gregory quit being a comedian to be Activism! So it's, but he's passed, so it's like. Trying to figure out who, and what side to move on because. We have been. Rich light for better word We have been literally massaged into. Believe in. It's going to be okay. we've. We've been It's GonNa. Be Okay. We got literally not. Feel that we got in and who I don't know who we we listen to. Some big trust factor with that. Big Trust me because this time we want to move away from. We WanNA get out of it. You know I know I do. Is it because you got to think about like? There are so many people with alterior motives. Is like so yeah. Maybe they might come in. They might WANNA help am I won't do something like but saltier motive and track records have shown like. It's not a big track regular. Good people right now. Say on both sides. So like who do we want to trust and who wants to take that because like maybe? Three or four years ago, cabinet had that energy. He wanted to do that now. He's like fuck y'all were listed. In like you know. Because, listen to. So is kind of like that like. And then who wants to be torn down by the side to right, because who ever is going to be that leader? They're gonNA IT'S GONNA be a mission for other people to go after them You know like the premise of black lives matter. There's another corrupt about. But there have been people out from day one. The money's going here leadership is. Did you know like right? The core of it is good. Of course you're going to get people that trick Alina aren't like a one hundred percent at the at the protest. They turned into looters and they. They do riots like okay. Do you really think that appeal? The black lives matter is out. They're the ones that are really starting. The fires are doing this and that like. You get people that with black lives matter so much. Why do black people kill each other like? Do you think the people in black lives matter are the ones killing other black people like? Do you think like I got to answer that too? And I have to tell people because I know I sounded very strong when I first came on, but being pro black as not anti way. I, you know well. There's a lot of moral confusion out there right now. I don't have that like literally. about the sound like a white guy. No, my wife is my wife is is is half Caucasian and. some of my best friends away. Area. Is that US out crazy the other way, right? But I. But I just want people to understand data. stikes this not the OJ trial. This is neither deriding you like the fact that we even go back to that or have people with so separate separate. The country was and how like black people that didn't even know. Who O. J. was was on his like kind of stuff. We gotta get away from. You know so. And I am glad that my daughter's age different than ours is they kind of see no color that's how are they doing with all this The angry my my daughter. GIOVINE US thirty two. She's she's losing. It and I had to tell Joe Chill, I had to say chill. I was like because you're transferring somewhere else into this like. Don't transfer it. You've got to be smart about how this gets done, but. The one thing. That I would say. That I. Love The allies that are on our side, but. But we just want police. Brutality fixed hundred arrested shit. We don't WanNa let. We just want cops stop killing US I want I literally drive. The house, of white cars in the world. I drive a Prius. I did I. Don't worry that thing. I drove a previous. I. Still got pulled though no. No I drive a Tesla and and I'm driving, and it's even white. It is why. would. I drive this car. And if I see a police officer, I still set. And is like what the hell of fifty-six still doing it and you do I still second. Look and I just want that part to start. Have you had gnarly encounters in the past that was playing for the Miami Heat Ninety two, thousand, nine, hundred and ninety, four, ninety five, so I'm hanging out with my brother. Michael and I'm working for Toyota so I get a land cruise every four thousand hours, but it's like big predicament Toyota was thrown it out so big, beautiful, white, one and getting on a causeway relieving club. I don't drink or smoke. So and we were driving and the cops bullets on a causeway. And tell me to cut the cough turned. Get dropped keys out of which. opened the door with my right hand. Get out and walk backwards. While the gun would. Then it got me turn around. Put My face Napa delays is John Salley. Dude we heard somebody you know stole the white truck like this on the beach. It's my brother was like taking the city. Come on, we'll cool radio. Man, Novi, my brothers I trip you me. If I would stumble backwards you would. You would have shot me. And it never clicked until my brother Tomita. Like Sally coup, right as I got in the car, we get. Twenty minutes house, you say Shit I still couldn't editing as I. But. I got about six hundred. But they become so I've become so numb to it until I saw George flew. It was amazing was like Like those girls calling in Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby Like I. Yes I have before something clicked man that was I had I been. It could've been me and the trip is I posted today a white dude through the same thing. So it wasn't just black, it was police brutality exam nats. What I keep saying to people they keep thinking. I'm making a black. No I'm making it police brutality, and my my cousins like chief was a top captain by the cousins chief of Police Department my brothers Correction Officer. Get it. But they still overstepped their bounds. So when you hear, de-fund the police, no. No I said fund the police so now we could know what they need to do if we got stitches in jail. We need stitches in the police department. Find out which ones. On Air believe that the Aryan race as strong, fine tagme, get them out. WHAT THEY'RE GONNA! Do Estado police force so now. You gotTa Watch it, so we watched black clansmen. Watched Mississippi burning. We saw all these. All these things are imitating life. We watched it knowing what it was about police brutality. Now we need to stop it Yeah. I think it's obvious that that we we need a healthy police force I don't know why anyone would be calling for the abolition of the police I'm certainly not anti-cop, but but I think we need to figure out how to allocate those funds appropriately, so they're going in the. Got To train these people better. They need to be able to manage their emotions under pressure. They need to be adequately trained with firearms. They need to know how to handle high conflict situations like it just if there's anything that comes out of all of these videos, it's that these people are ill-equipped for high stress situations they stand. Soon starting. Now, racist right, but even even even one a lot of need to know the law. We need to retrain police officers to know the law and know the right. That's the deal. They don't know the rights. They believe they're above the law exactly so when you don't know to rights at a citizen, you will violate them. Right, how is corrupting absolute power is absolutely corrupting, so if you think I got the gun and a badge and you know. Shit. Who you Nigga with a badge right I get the right to kick your ass whenever I feel like it well, that is a mentality. It wasn't just Eddie doing it in the movie. That's a mentality I said when we know that the thing that every buyers rioting and protesting is not I'm black. You're white, right? It sounds like it what we're protesting is police brutality period, and then they need to know this is consequences to their actions right now like you said with them thinking they're above the law. It will be as. There's nothing wrong with it. You know what I'm saying like Bass metality right now is like if I anybody. If they find out, they can do something, and then later on, they realize Oh, we'll. Nothing's going to happen to me. The morality is. The paradigm shift for them like I've noticed is wrong, but I get away with it every day and layer on top of that the fact that that opportunity is attractive for a certain person who gets into that field work because of whatever. Trauma or abuse? That person suffered in their life that that makes that Javi sounds appealing. ROBOCOP Was it Robocop Robocop. robocop about the man then everybody's up Shits Creek. I'm sure you've run. INS with the police to right. Yeah, one case that always sticks out to me, is that. I was I was in college. I played college ball. I was going to a classmate's house to meet up with her. and. They lived in a better neighborhood you know. I lived in Ferguson. They live in a better neighborhood. I'm writing over I got this Nine Eos Mobile, if anybody ever. Speed up its hooves. Whatever I'm driving and I know the cop behind me and my job. Still Looking for house, 'cause I'll never been. So I am driving a little slow. And he put lights on. I'm like automatically like you say like. Fear like I remember just Segue I. Remember I put out a post about three or four years ago in house. Like for everybody out here I want to answer if you get pulled over, what's the first is that goes in your mind most why people will like. Maybe, take this and that most black people like. Am I fucking die? So that's a big shift for people to understand like. Yeah, we might even die. I'm probably end up with some kind of injury like that's for ticket whatever? So he's pulling me over. But I waited till I got in front of her house. 'cause I always remember Rodney King, I won't witnesses like what happened to me this before cell phones that cameras it is like ninety. Ninety seven something like that so all right so I. Get there, but I I called on my side. The cops just pulled me over. I'm just letting you know in case something happens, so he comes up. He's got his e unflapped the done he's got. He's got his hand on the gun and he's like. What are you doing? That's that's the first question like I'm not allowed. To be of our. Classmate where. We're about to do our paper together. My book bags right here. Eight home of your arms by I'm just showing you book bags right here so now for the cops showed up about a time. We keep getting our conversation going and he's like. Why don't you start when I? Trying light on I was like well I was nervous. I WanNa make sure those witnesses. There's no you stop when you when the lights come on, I'm like well. I was in the middle of the street to so. Pull over. And he gets my license. Registration goes back to the car I'm telling like I'm so excited outside on the porch. Her father was like a a state official. Some kind of so he comes is a hey was going on like Oh. This guy. He meets the description of the guy him and the car. Meet the description of the. It just robbed a grocery store. Around the corner I'm like damn like in cutoff. T shirt. Because I can't play ball that like you know who robs a store. That's like so many stories. Though is so terribly right now, mind you. I am. Twenty year old guy I'm not even I'm nervous. He'll. And everybody's like Oh. You just comply, but my man when the fear kicks like Dude I might die right now like you don't know what you're you. So I'm sitting there waiting and everything to go through. Finally, they come back. Luckily they stayed on the porch and waited and I think that that literally made this whole story changed and so finally gave the papers back. No, he's not the guy with when they go. Come back to. My classmates father, he calls into the office or whatever. Because they just wanted to check like. was there a robbery like now? There hasn't been in any grocery store in that area in the last five years. Just made it out, so he goes made shit up, but I just didn't fit like I should have been and. Right now mind you. The classmate was black, too. But. She has like a Alexis. Ran Around the night. You know it was so. I was nervous like the whole time the whole time, but it was win a cutoff. T shirt like now. I I would like. To Crop Top, yeah, they've got pulled over for the Croat. Lime Green. We. Man No. It was like a basketball shirt, so eat of it. But it pisses you off afterwards like. Why would you even fuck with somebody like that? For no reason not saying is not bad people out there, so the guy does. He saw the car. He's like this. This is tweaked ride. This guy's got like it looks like he's black lights up. Yeah, yeah, he should be in. His neighbor is a beat up car. The car's beat the fuck up, so he's like not as cautious it'd be in this area was going on and I'm like, but if I'm going to do some shady, I wouldn't be going creeping I would be. So he was. But it's so many stories like that I. Mean I've I've had more runnings myself, but it's like. And that's the messed up. Part is 'cause you, you're you're kind of powerless. Because they have supposedly absolute power and absolute power corrupts you. It makes you believe that anything other than you is lesser white black purple if if we don't change the way that thought process like the other day. excuse me I forgot his name, but the brother got killed in a Wendy's parking lot in Atlanta right. Yeah, he's standing up having conversation Brooks. Yes, he's having a conversation. Yeah, he's tipsy. He doesn't know his right. He doesn't have to take the breathalyzer tests. Next you know he's wrestling and as I'm watching it, they go, we'll look. This is when he turned around and points to stun gun. while. He pointed a stun gun, and then the cop shot him with a real right, so y if if he threatening the back did he feel threatened by stun gun? Then he shoulda well. He stole my son guns. Only other gun I had to shoot them with was that. It it's it gets to a point where you gotta, stop giving excuses. It it cannot. We cannot have any more excuse, and we can't have George Floyd Incense Sense George Floyd. Seven other people get murdered. We murdered murder that we. Have the kid in Palmdale who they found hung. A suicide to come up. Well we have to. It's crazy. That's the problem with the world you know. Hang attention to this so closely and a spotlight on police behavior that these kinds of things would happen. You got protests for police brutality where police of be a brutal against the people that are protest. There's like nobody sees this shit. Like people. Out there. It gets confused because you have looting and like people like has nothing but was. Forty tension gets dispersed. They're doing it to people that aren't. Ludi is like all right. We all have the right to peacefully protest whether it's a Nina football game whether it's out on the street whatever it is, we all have that right. And looting in every single riot. Looting right every. That's why it has a name and have the people that are looting have shit to do with the actual calls. Yeah. There's a difference between looting and rioting. Writing is breaking some shit. Some shit up. Looting is walking out with Louis. Vuitton has nothing to do with. George Fluid. Walking with eight Nike Boxes. Got, this. David throwbacks. Nordstrom at the grow you. That has nothing to do with, and that's where. I gotta say the White Chick but I. Did you go see the one when the when the newscast is saying, maybe she. White Lady. Buddy is being about the white cheese. She was walking slow slow. You always see everybody else. Because? She was like this shit fits. Yeah! I love that kind of. Bring. I get see video of people walking down the street with bags, and then lines of cops across the street doing nothing because they were focused on. You know whatever else and just letting, go like yeah man. They can't do anything about it insurance. There's another video whereas I three cops talking to a white lady while she spray painting, the Building and Oh. You say you join for his name older like the COP tells it like. They're not doing a is a white lady. They're not doing nothing to like. They don't say anything wrong like. Those allies those police officers. Those allies we need them. Like people opportunities, there's another video of a lady like literally walking up. This guy's like trying to board of his store and he's got the drew as somebody caught the lady doing it. She runs up to the guy. To. Ask you take a picture with him. He hazard a drill. She's got the drill. Her husband takes a picture over. They get back in the car leaf. It was a band steer. Wait now is the most egregious one because it was so. Late and like she literally gets out of the Ben's walks up tomorrow. The guys Jewish hoses with it like she's helping. It's the picture desolate say. We Trust. Like who do we trust like what's what's the direct? What? Israel yes, really, I don't know. We have these incredibly powerful images and videos going. Were all consuming them? We're trying to make sense of what's happening. And that kind of butts up against this insane news cycle where we're not sure what's real, and what isn't. It's all very disorienting. Just define solid ground. Where are we standing and and you know to talk to to? Continue on that idea of of being an ally ally ship like. How how can like someone like myself? Be An effective ally. First thing I would ask you Richard to check yourself. You have to check. You have to check for your own because we all have prejudices right because we're America, we watch archie bunker. We Watch Jeffersons. We watch good times. We Watch San Fran. We Watch friends that had no black people to the second to last season. We watched Curves you? Watch these shows kind of. structure I'll pop culture so the first thing you gotta check yourself for your own. Your own inefficiencies all your own, like check who you are, and once you check a you are new. Check in you. Check your ego and you check where you believe you are. That's that's it. We wiped each person to be strong as that person can possibly be. And if that person really wants to be allied, they gotta make sure that they are okay with what they see to give an example out of friend. in Miami and he was cool. He was always with us and then this girl he liked started dating my brother, and he said she's ruined. I go! What do you mean like they've? He doesn't have a big penis. Don't don't believe high. She was like. This. You know. He's I know she's ruined like no other like who I know. Other guy's GonNa win after this. Show so I had to check him I said what do mean by that. Keating. He's still to this day. Probably doesn't well. Maybe now he does, but he didn't understand what he meant a what he was feeling. It's Muslim I. Say Check Yourself. I checked myself a thousand times before getting here on what not to say what to say and how to be As direct without anger, and with a thought as possible because I do have A. I grew up in anti Jewish neighborhood. My first friends were probably widened black, besides my brothers and Ronnie Rosen Bounds still my one of my best friends and. We check each other constantly. Constantly in you know we'll, we won't even make. Back in a day, we make jokes you know because of his, but now we figure out. Maybe those jokes that we make aren't so good for the psyche either so I. Constantly Check Myself. That's the first thing I think. And I think it also has to be a point where. As far as holding yourself accountable, that's huge in. You have to look back and say Damn. To like Ambien, okay with it, not beating yourself up as an ally, you have to understand like Dan. When he cracked a joke and every every white person on no I don't care how much they tried. Tonight has heard a family member a coworker. Friend whatever it is when they would know anything anybody who's looking. They slipped in inward and some joke, or or they would been dead series turn the parent like posted a a couple of weeks ago about this white. That was talking to her parents. and the parents were like well. No. Together, they don't WanNa. See you know that's that's best problem and the white girls I know that's not the problems. They yeah, but they're like animals and this and that like this is going on today. You see what I'm saying so. For people to see that. You have to understand that everybody has to speak up this little seven I think she's seventeen or something like that. Just seventeen year old girl can speak up. Everybody has speaker and you have to nip it in the bird you'd really have to. New? Here's something racist. You see something races. Speak up about it I think people are. We talked about earlier are too uncomfortable. I was talking to Greg Yeah there too uncomfortable with being. Shunned. Like no, you're not going to be liked by everybody, but at least be. Somebody's GonNa hate you. Let them hate you for doing the right thing. You know there's a lot of people like I. Notice wrong over there, but I'm not gonNA. Say Anything because my family and friends might not talk to me all right if those people don't WanNa, talk to you for doing the right thing. Fuck them like literally like that. That's showing you their character. I, think yeah. I get that I. Mean I think that's an example of agreed just. A racist I think the real the harder. Hill to climb in the more pernicious problems is kind of what you are speaking to John's Mike the idea that that? That there are a lot of people most people who. Who will tell you I'm not racist. I don't have a racist bone in my body and I don't see color and the blind spot for them, and for myself is is that? Is the systemic aspect of all of this like when you have watched all those television programs growing up like I grew up in white neighborhood I mean there. There's you know I went to school with some black people, but it's like I'm I'm not I didn't I wasn't reared in black culture right, and and so you were. Well I was culture pop culture. Yes, sure. Sports and all of that But This is brought up for me. The work that I need to do to like unravel that not and and to kind of identify those those blind spots that I have within myself because. I I would I would look you straight in the eye and say I've never done anything racist I. Don't Harbor Racist Thoughts and all of that, but because of the way I was raised, and the people I've surrounded myself my whole life. It's impossible that there isn't some kind. EP embedded imprint that I need to like look at and unravel. You said you said. I said this before guy, said raise boat on my body. I said nobody racist heart. Not You, not you know. What I mean, give you an example. I grew up in a white neighborhood. You said. So you knew. Right. Knew Yeah well. That's what I mean you grow in the neighborhood. That was why right that means. You grew up in a neighborhood that separated you from black people. That race. So from the beginning of your being, they separated you from us. Because of their thought and fear of us so when you only know this when you see this, you only when you see it, go, Mommy. What's that they give you? The cliffnote. Over there, right, so that starts then starch racism when they separated you and when they didn't include beginning. So that's where it starts to other part is visualization as a young young. We I said this I said what needs to be done. Nobody wants to do. Right? Everybody wants to be a Mata. But they get you gotta die. So. No one wants to do what needs to be done and when I say it. I lose so-called filoviruses I. Put myself in a position, but this is I'm GonNa. Say It on your show 'cause I love you. The only way to race racism. is to take the picture of white Jesus out of every church in the world. If you don't erase the thought of God being white. Going to constantly stay this way. Every. GonNa Post every statute taken down with confederate. They need to go on a black church and take the white Jesus off the wall and they won't do it. Because, the white, Jesus was established across. Do exactly what it's doing, but this is what got us to this point. In Brazil. I was in by Brazil. Three hundred sixty five churches in the city of by this is first place that they. The first place they did slaves. They bring slaves into by they they still they will show you. The dances COUPLA though they will show you the the the the cells when they bring you up from its is a whole talk. Three hundred sixty five churches so every day you can go to a different church and worship Jesus Christ in every pitcher in there is why. There's gold flaking on the wall. People living in the streets did it's always been this way so an audit. Stop Racism. You have to stop preaching it when it comes to faith and religion. If, that's not done. With oh stay here. Can be a little bit of resistance to that Yeah Oh. It's GonNa, be but yeah. We've Detroit thousand sixty eight. When they went in, they painted Madonna Black. So it was called the shrine a black Madonna this specialists no way. Jesus was White, I mean. He can't tell me that because I. I saw him. Today right. The whole life. He looked like he had. He had pretty Brown here and Robin Thicke before he's. He was the best looking. German guy without getting like we just not gonNA. You know black people will defend that like there's some black churches what Nasr this. Hey, the take the pitch away. Jesus down. They said No. Said No. It doesn't mean anything said it means everything it means everything because. It means that if the son of God is White, God is white. If the son John Salley Kmart White. We would blood tests. Right so if the son of God is White, God is white. That is establishing that that's the supreme right. So where do you get white supremacy? That's the beginning of white supremacy. Super Interesting. Yeah, so did you see Cornell West talking to Anderson Cooper on CNN the other day I love Ya. I mean what a what an incredible monologue or he is. So powerful wanted things he said was. the. You know the blow-back is common like make no mistake there. This is not going to go quietly into the night. And just you know manifest beautiful change without a lot of resistance to this. So. How do you think about that like? Where do you see that coming from? And how do we? Prepare for that, I think I think it's spot on like this. Is So interesting that people want. They want people to be peaceful protests. They don't mind the cops being aggressive in getting the protesters out of there. But when somebody's more like Dave Shapiro if he just put out. A forty San that was. Not to get too far. Would anybody can bring a story together like he cared like with so many different? Aspects that tie together, but it's just like. People have to be. Willing to understand how long we have been quite. Like you see the memes like what we try to protest peacefully by taking a knee, nothing happens China, protest on the street nother happens which approach SPCA online. Nothing happens. We burnt some shit. Everybody shows up. All right when you showing up right, okay? When I hear now, let's talk. I'm with I'm John. It's too late I mean I know people were awfully busy so I definitely don't want to see that happen, but I also know that sometimes in order to get the point across. Shits gotta go down. He's got to go now. I hate it that it does I hate it. I hate that I. Wish we could find. We can find another way to get him attention, but then we also got to look at the setup that comes along with this too late. Nobody would talk about it. They talked about the random bricks that show up all the time, right. But his anybody ever tripped off wiser always a random fucking cop car. For like the extra seen on streetfighter, memories beat the COP car, and you get all these extra points like this is always a empty cop car for everybody to burn up and spray paint. It'd beat the hell out of. Win On. Like a proper photo cross that we can say that this is out of control. Exactly win on a normal day. Have you ever seen a random cop car on the street with the windows? Now windows down no cop around. No, Hey. I tell you this. No one likes the truth. A, hard thing when you gotta go in yourself and check yourself and you know how many times I had to check myself if I wasn't being house. Negro off Field Negro. Check myself. I wasn't being house and they used the word Negro because it. It's a little different, but and you think that's why the the the the NFL players acted the way they did with the copper next thing they. They. Would they were and you've had? Owners telling you if you do you out, finding you just. What are you thinking about? What get eldest, said well I. I got a text Texan. Joe drew brees I. Text Drew Brees as soon as it happened. Did you try so? Let me help you through this the me, explain it to you. And he sent back a wonderful tech. Say Sorry and get back to you. Obviously I've been inundated, but you is is I had to recheck what I was saying what I meant nights at the wrong time, but I now know where I was wrong. I was like perfect. I love wicked. I Love I love. We said, and I think he should say we should do this now, and we should pay more attention I think he's stepping up and saying that great I'm glad he did talking my giving people the jobs back on all that all he can do is apologize mistakes, but right now Kyrie. Irving is telling guys when trying to get the NBA season to start back in a Landau. He's saying I. Don't think we should be playing basketball right now and then. If the ball play at the black ball plays back career irving. I'm telling you can eat at market pushed out marginalized. No, the ones who don't follow Kyrie Irving are the ones who are going to get pushed up. They GONNA get pushed off from our community. Because I'M GONNA. Make sure of it. Those who don't join the fight. If you ain't wit us, you'll get US George W Bush. Well the drew Bristol. Back to the breeze thing I mean that that whole situation kind of perfectly encapsulates so much right. Here's a guy who just said absolutely the worst possible thing. He could ever say in that moment, and it was just looking at that. I was just thinking. How could he like what was going through his mind that he thought that was the right thing to do grew up in a way. I will give him my point, yeah. I mean the whole world. Put Him on blasts. The Internet just went insane. I will give him credit that he did a pretty good job with his apology. Like you really and just walk it back and do kind of like that. You know the textbook that. You could tell he put a lot of thought into it and I do think it's important in this moment where there's a breakdown in civil discourse and we're finding more and more difficult to actually just have hard conversations where you John. Salley can say you can speak your mind. You could speak your truth. That's why we need to have. We need to have this like heartless of European. Or whether we disagree or or not like that is the path forward here and right now our culture is so fraught and everybody so terrified of saying the wrong thing that a lot of people are sitting on the sidelines and remaining quiet in a moment where I think we need to be conversing. In public out loud and when you see. Drew brees and what he did. We need to understand that when someone makes a mistake like that that we have to provide them the opportunity to redeem themselves. We can't just cancel them forever like if we want to grow and learn from this moment right now we have to be able to celebrate the winds and figure out how to fan the flames of positive change without just the you know shoving aside of people who follow the line with whatever talking points are deemed socially acceptable in the moment. That speaks to all aspects of this problem from all different I think. And I believe in canceled poultry is. US, too much, but I do believe sometimes it is needed like like I would say this if Breezes speech was one speech, but his interview if what he would say was straight hateful, and you knew it was a hateful tone. Then that was different. You know what I'm saying just just apologizing that she just doesn't work. You know I think we gotTA STOP DOING IT TO IS BLACK PEOPLE! Well he apologize, even he said. I hate fucking black people and he hides out. It's different. We got situation like that where people have been hateful, and then they start looking at their money, their dollar and they're like. Oh, I need to apologize. I, don't apologize because as the right thing to do because you probably wouldn't have said the first thing I yeah. Let me give you a little history. George Wallace was the governor of Alabama. When that? Walk Across Selma Bridge Happen, and he wanted a one at exactly what happened when they crossed the bridge? People getting beaten everything. To win. The president had to send the National Guard in to tell him not to kill these black folks. Eight and had a stroke when he got older and his nurse was black. And, literally saving his life every day, and he apologized, and all these black people put they had them. I got it in jet magazine. And my mom's May sausage you see some people you can you can. You can go back and realize it's GonNa. Come back the one day the that you heard GonNa come back into one you gonna you GonNa need, and I thought about it. I. Like all of these guys I love? Withdrew said I liked did they came back and I liked that when people you said, get a chance to redeem themselves. But. He would not have said that if he didn't grow up thinking the other way. That's why you have in us on this show. Me In particular, only my second time, but don't worry about it so. Come back anytime. We were joking before the talk. Ask for the first time you came in. You just got up in the middle and said pick up your daughter. You remember that Oh yeah man. See was Right down the street from your crib to. Having a rough time that. Oh you in trouble. Flipped out from fourteen to sixteen like. Tripped was like. Out Right now. Man I was like hormones and penises will do some crazy things. were. Just enjoying the ride don't wait to see. Start smelling guys distance. He Smells Cute Jesus Christ. What was going on I wanted to write a book. Just raise daughters can. HAVE BEEN TOUGH I stepped on your point. Yeah Man! You, we do. We can't do to cancel. Culture and people do make mistakes and black people always always give just remember that no ever think that they hate me to never going to get by people and the reason I tell you. The George Wallace thing is because he was the most hateful guy. He was so mad at the University of Alabama. Put the it was so funny as far as. When they talked about putting the football players bear Bryant was like I don't care what you're saying, you know. I'm putting them on field. He was so hateful, but when it came down to win, his life depended on it. It was only black people around him. There was no I folks around, and he apologized, and he apologized apologizing and I. Want you all to realize that when you make those apologies and their heartfelt black people will put their arm around you, and it can't be a one time of policy. fucking life, but be okay would ask his Mama House. Mama has remember that time, but what I'm saying. Because the thing is, you might put out a press release. You might have put out something saying you apologize now, but that don't mean everybody else. Heard it right then, so you know what I'm saying. But we'll circulate negativities, so it becomes unlike jubilees. Talking about you know disrespecting the flag. Are you put out the press release. You know basically say I'm sorry I shouldn't have done that, but that doesn't mean just because you got over it. The other person got over that you're talking about. So you might have is. There's like I mean if you scholarships a starting point. You Mess Up. You added apologize for the rest of their relationship, and if you don't have a relationship with black people. You might have to apologize over and over and over or make the living amends. It's about De. How is he going to change his behavior? I mean I hate to say this is not into putting everybody out there. It's not proof is in the pudding. Is Proof is in the put in, but people in America mess like some crazy bats speaking closed. Not Search Down every time you. Know. But. Approve is in the pudding. Is actually what you gotta go get my daughter. And as soon as you're talking too much. I'm. Like my mentor, my older brother for real anyway, so like last spin around him his almost mostly that. You guys knew each other I didn't know. How old were you when I was a camp counselor? Sounds like a story. How. I didn't say the boys. The Boys! I didn't. Know about senior person about ten years, I would say It's probably. I wore his Jersey number when I was a kid though. I was a fan. Yeah, I mean I didn't know he was fucking crazy. I. I saw I saw something I was. At Mount Sneaker right and I was like wanted to I got. Like of course, he did my brother. My brother was on it since it was called. Saga and we sold it. Does cause. We thought. Yeah, we. We only sell them for forty dollars, so people can afford that right. Yes, aim Marbury mentality. They don't cost that much to make. And And some I says he'll may have Pale sagas and I. Swear I. Don't know if it's because I started smoking weed twenty years ago. I was like what the Hell is. Say. Dan. Side. I don't even remember that one I was like Oh. I used to play basketball. That's right. I couldn't imagine jumping and hitting somebody and my knees right now. Just tweet even thinking of. All that self care. Guy I was playing this coup. Kid and this kid did a move, and he went around me. He went around me so fast. An my legs in move, which used to be just you know it's like instant. Heat went around me so fast this way I had to look this. Say I looked at my legs, I said that's that's. That's what we're. Is it. My legs, I work anymore. I was like how long ago it was ten years ago. I'm fifty, six, nine, forty, six. I knew that's why couldn't understand. Kareen played. He was forty two Robert Paris Kobe plan to its could not imagine play in twenty years i. mean it to me right now when I see people that when you still run. Yeah. I wish. I could. I got some back stuff though I'm working on your. Products, you got for me man. I got some unbelievable admitted. I would mention one company, but they didn't do the deal yet QUANTA. Question Yeah but definitely I wish my legs. Don't work to say there's another company to that safe. They elsewhere awesome with them did go through, but shit were so. They actually got me thinking about playing ball again. My knee. Surgery on both knees now. Say. They. Not. Like Hey I. can this go for a run, my wife. I don't want to hear you for five days. She goes to Peleton's over there. Like. Man. I said an eight eight. They came into the House and said guess what this works for your height and this we have another seven foot, and through no uses, and here's some fifteen I was like. I gotTA do. Yeah, but it's it's. I I try to women again. Yeah, it was great. That was great but in. Mother maybe. I. In the pool. Cue Shaquille. Yeah like. Yeah, man. Thing and act like a like a west. Back in the water, he's like a great swimmer and I was like I got to go swimming again. I should is hot is. small Alpine organic. The name is, but they. They gotTA CBD creamed like. Like, put his way I was like eight or ten with my knees pain and I'm easily at zero two now. Wow, anybody that's been through eighteen pain. We'll take zero to. Heartbeat now. Me WanNa go play ball again, but probably the first. The but he's GonNa. Be like now. This is not what this. I can't even shoot a hook shot. I I tried it. I one of my the other day and I say you know what I'm just GonNa. Do some I'm not gonna I'm not going to. Your House yeah. I'm not going to jump that much. I'm just going to man I took about six shots life. The bowl with my puppy. All right. Let's shift gears here I. WanNa talk about the dock. Can we talk about the doctor for sure for justice? Name! Yeah you'RE GONNA? We're building up to it. I WANNA. Hear what it is, but you partnered up with with our boy Keegan who's? The Guy Behind what the health and CAL spiracy. Tell us a little bit about this movie I, mean you guys are still in production? Well, we was going to be done shooting in Johm, but with the pandemic and everything. We had to put it back, so we're focused on releasing about a end of the year the film is about social, Justice and Food Justice through the Lens of hip hop our current You know seeing what the health this is like the official. Follow up to what health. And we've John's in the movie Neo My Styles P stick from day. Praise Rory walkup longer. We talked, but he didn't he didn't want to. Talk about it, but s cool like I know is not fair. Everybody like some because we go very in depth Dennis and we're calling out major brains major government all kinds of stuff. Wow, sometimes, it's just everybody. Don't want to talk about it so I get I. Don't hold a personal. Nobody doesn't want to be in the community or anything like that but it's like the idea is. It's addressing food injustice, and like nutritional poverty, and the in the short, also like how certain foods literally are detrimental to the health of people color. I mean just like science pro shown it. all these lab tests, everything and the government still allows it to be sold. And one one of the one of the greatest stories us all was A. we're looking at advertisement from either. One of the major. Baby formula companies, and. And? They showed him handing it to me in the movie. And he's handed to me and I'm reading it and it literally says Mother's breast milk is not sufficient for the growth of of babies. So you tell people which is targeted to people color. that. Thing that that that. You're creating humans since humans thing, that's not good. That's why you need this baby for our. Full of fucking cow's milk. That's detrimental to people. Come already. So seventy percent of all allergies are related to the ingestion of. Animal meal, lactose, lactose intolerance. So have you started off with that? You're not even giving them breast. Like people don't even know how much DNA is transferred to a baby from the mother's breast milk, not even from your mother's Pressman, yeah yeah yeah just another human humans and you and when you dial it back to the actual mother, the mother asks the breast milk actually will change. Is Formula Formula to fit what the baby needs? That's how crazy science if they're like. No, no, no. Don't do that. We gotTA figure now. I got this product here for your. We need to lessen. We need to lessen the male African. Is a reproduction. you can say. What you want to say, we ought to show the deal. Is He? Put Foods in the reason I got involved is the first. Title was they killing US literally spelled any botox. They killing us. Not they are now air. Not Maybe they are without saying that they killing us. Here's what I was like. Keep that title because it literally mean something more than just. It's. It's. Way I just said it is black American period. Yeah, but they change it. Hungry for Justice for justice, but now the official title of the film is they're trying to kill us. The official type, not that they are not is they're. They're trying to kill us. They are trying to kill which and that's what they're showing, and that's what we're showing like. This whole system is set up to where you're eating the certain food. And it's GONNA lead to these multiple different either ailments diseases. Whatever and then when that happens now you have to go get peel. It appeared on worked long enough, because not appeals say that they cure anything they say, help you deal with the with the symptoms, the symptoms of so as duct tape like if you notice, there's nothing out there any of these commercials. They'll give you eighty. Five side effects may cause anal leakage in all this other shit, but Hicks. So he's talking about all these different things, and if that doesn't work, guess what ninety two surgery. Now. The surgeries thirty thousand dollars and have surge. Guess what you gotTa. Do you gotta? Take some more pills to deal with the lack of whatever we cut out of you. Right because you can't produce it anymore yourself or Whether they don't talk, about is right over here. We got this food that you could just eat that site grown from now and we'll. Talk a little bit about how this impacts Black African American communities disproportionately from communities. Could you make that argument that that would be the case whoever the customer is? Yeah, you could say that that is the case, but we've noticed is a portly that. Grocery stores. Are Not. Spread around the country evenly. So you look at. Lower income communities. They'll have a bodega. Maybe they'll maybe have a gas station. And what we've noticed that people call it. Food Deserts, snarly food deserts is nutrition. Desert's is food there, but whereas attrition and You know you gotta pack. Peanuts has got eighteen ingredients in it without. He's just peanuts. What you see is that. These people in certain demographics are predominantly people of color. So yeah, you might have. People with. The outs, outlying factor like yeah. There are some why people that live in this community. But predominantly is people color. So that's what they're showing, and that's what we're showing is that? You're starting off in the negative. Plan right? You know they're already. Let's say you come to into mountain. We gave him a five hour headstart. And we gave them shoes. You know what I'm saying. Now you get around to catch. You know what I'm saying like. There's so many things across the board without giving a whole movie way but Know like for instance were Elliott right now if he wanNA, really see the the difference. I wanted to go to Beverly Hills and tell me to address of the McDonald's in Beverly Hills. And if somebody actually address McDonald's and Beverly Hills fucking lying because there's not, there's not one McDonald's Beverly Hills. You didn't even know I don't even know that. Beverly Hills four point four miles wide supposedly. You will find McDonald's Popeye's. You'll find an one one one One gasoline store in this the highest gasoline into world in the country. That fancy one with the fancy roof. Yeah, I know people still happen. So? That's where you get to see where. They know what they're doing. They're putting things in certain areas. To! Feed. The the White America and the people call in. And just because you. Try to say like that doesn't mean you racist that you've been a part of this. This matrix was so low as like. No, but once you realize that would not the systemic aspect. Sort of reinforces this this the disproportionate outcomes I mean when you look at. Black Americans and the incidence of diabetes and obesity and. You compare you line that up against white populations, and it's pretty shocking and is what we've been taught. We've been conditioned to believe that we have eating certain foods. We've been conditioned to believe that we will have certain ailments and he certain diseases. But nobody coming to tell us you know that's actually preventable over there. You'll have to get this shit. You know what I'm saying, but we think we gotta have a certain way to eat got and most of that stuff. If you trace it back, start off of slavery as well. So you were giving this food and one thing about black people. We will turn anything you give us into go. You give us a fucked up situation. We're GONNA. Make the best of it. The problem is that we're still holding on left of the situation. Every time we eat these certain foods and still keeping us in the system. The one thing is there's a loophole. Is a loophole like the good food available out there. Is available for everybody, but they make you see a dollar hamburger, and you think that that's a better value, but in reality you can get more fruits and vegetables for the week. Under a certain budget than you would, if you were to go bus stake in his process, though Part of the deal is is fast food. Our community. Usually parents worth more than one job. and. It has been a Lotta Times where it's been single parent home either single mom or single dad. mostly mom, so mom doesn't have the time. Or the wherewithal to go get those vegetables. Make it into a meal unless they eat the open. If the the opium they know what to do with the length does in him in you train that one, but in America, which rain hit. Take some money. Go get to you and your sister. Some eat and come back. We'll five dollars go, and whatever you can get for five dollars is going to be your food for the night and the food that you're getting is not food, so it doesn't digest, but it swells your stomach. And so, if you get no nutrients and you're getting no strength than you have no ability to fight. If you got no ability to fight, you would have no ability to reproduce. Billy to reproduce. They lessened your sperm count they add tons of. Obesity has gone to your self. Esteem has dropped and this on the street, so you can't leave your. So. This is constantly put into a situation to make us a monk's selves while being sick. And that's that's where it comes into is why like you said? I did it and why we had to put better restaurant, but I'm GONNA get an argument from somebody. No matter what right when they were like sad, I mean I was talking to shack and he was. So I shouldn't eat fried chicken. Right and I was like now you know the the. Eaten a skin to and there's oil and it's going to get into user Okay Asa. You tell people not to eat chicken. Yeah Yeah. Exactly what? But his film is GonNa hit like you said you didn't get sued a lot. Always sued but I. Know! How to stir it out sure right he's. got a collective effort here like we I. Mean it's funny. I talked to him. Every day like every day and we always coming up with like brainstorm ideas like ooh shit. Let's do this. Do this Oh because you know when they see this. They're gonNA be pissed perfect because we won't be. She's a part. Go His punk rock. Thing exactly exactly. Are. And this is the thing to. If everybody out there, I don't want people to think that Keegan is running this field. I don't know why people I have somebody if I were you I would let them think that because when they get sued, Let. Like Right. I had somebody to play. Disagree with one of my post like I was like you know like all these big corporations and organizations that are that reached out to me about like. Hey, we need to promote the black people, but now you're silent. I'm like fuck y'all like like I'm I'm being honest. I know fuck y'all and they're like. ooh! I hope he sees this, and he drops them from the film lake. I was like first of all. Keegan riposted. Yeah, he's. Young. He's totally about a and second about like. That plays into the whole mindset of like well. I'll go report to the White Guy. the the black. act. You know what I'm saying. The mentality that comes a dad is crazy. That's wild man is, but it's so are troublemaker I am I am, but but I'm only troublemaker because people don't want to hold onto the. Fake Shit. You're troublemaker like. Late I mean Vegan instagram's shit show truth. Hurt so much if you live in a lot. As John. If you live in a lot, the truth is GonNa fucking her. You know what I heard yesterday. Oh my God, it was the greatest greatest day there was a guy heckling. Say something, and he said don't worry about it because he goes, you know what if you throw a brick at a bunch of at a pack of dogs? Only to one that get hit by a brick house, so the only two people who get up exactly right are the ones who will going to say something about what you're doing. Exactly one that the brick hits one. It's them then. They have some big as to. How for like I say I I say. Look I. Don't I might put the shoe out there, but I won't name the name of the shoe. Size of the, but it's always so much for coming along and saying that shoe fits. The word like that's how would be but I was name, anybody odd name out the actions. And I'm like if you fit these actions. Says you, so we have no sponsors for. Retirement. Yeah he's. started. We, don't we do have the? We do have a do have a a crow going on for the film, and it's to to make sure that people are involved in the film, even than what they are given the name of it What is it the crowdfunding? He's going to be on our on our website. They're trying to kill dot com. They're trying to kill us. Up Right now, yeah, so it's IT'S A. Tiny Shoshana. We spell it. They, are they're? They're H. E. Y.. R., E.. There's apostrophe on websites and by the time this movie comes out. John's going to win this argument. I said. was like Oh, So funny. Has Anybody made. A nutrition focused documentary about. The Black and African communities people of Color Community. There was one. will be out on. I won't leave her out. It was on Amazon or otherwise just like healthy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, nothing I think before her I don't think anybody else. Really May WANNA focus on people, color, and so shockers is just. I don't think anybody was in a position to make it at the same time. Just I've been fortunate to be able in a position where you know Keegan that we've been friends for a long time and he asked me he was like marijuana. Do a film man, which you. Because he's seen my work and other stuff I've done justice and always speaking up and doing speeches and he's like. Together I wanna I wanNA reach a different demographic. I was like well. You know like let's let's go for the color they need us. He's like yeah, but I don't know house like hip hop. Bye! My first idea was like hip hop. Hip Hop runs everything like. And! Whole Cultural Force in the universe. If you ever if you ever want to understand how strong hip hop is said. If you close your eyes, you can see a bunch of six foot. White guys on skates would Jay z plan in the background, and you just talked about the NHL. What I'm saying like that's how powerful it is the biggest party green. Green but you know look at the biggest Broadway show right now. Here views you know saying so. What about unhealthy Vegan so? We. We only talk about the black unhealthy vegans or Like when you say nutrition like what what are we? What are we? What point pointed? We get well. We are trying to get people to be healthy. That's the that's the thing like there's. There's a big confusion of light veganism and healthy. Begin isil. Like there. There are some products out there. That tastes like Burger tastes like cheese like that and sure in moderation, but we're trying to do is get people to. Begin for health. Is about healing in your movie. you know what is the path for like? What are the solutions that you're? You. Know providing people with best. That's one of the biggest things. I wanted to be solution based with the movie. As one big thing that Toe Keegan so one of them is a we're working on. Actual programs like more learning programs afterwards We're showing how to eat within the movie showing him where to get fruits and vegetables where to get. Nuts, legalzoom's and rice whatever it be, but how to put it together That's beneficial to them as well like. We also want them to feel like are we gave you this problem, but we didn't show you how to. showing him like. A lot of the different studies and everything showing how the reversal of all these diseases. Can Be Incorporated with plant based eating of Vegan eating whatever cases When big things too is that? We were working on a actual meal plan like actual product. Be Very affordable. Ally Vegan items are out of the price range for a lot of people. Actually has some talks with. A store brand whole foods. If you listen, let's keep it going, but we working on a having it to where people who watched the film they could get. These meal plans from whole foods. At an affordable rate! Also have them delivered. Since before pandemic delivery was still. Will hopeful and having delivered to them because when I had a meeting hopefully I told him I was like. You know you can build a whole foods in the hood. Right next door to a mom with six keys. As, she's still not coming. For Her to get all six keys in the car. Get him ready or even if it's a dad. Sound, railway, whoever parent a single parent with kids for them to get them in the car. Get them over giving Eboni we provide a solution. We're literally putting it on the doorstep for there's already made you gotTa, Do, is he the? Saying and I'm not. A busy making it easy as possible and expanding the perimeter, the delivery perimeter, also because those whole foods are far away and we're talking about Amazon. You know they have the capability to reach everybody already delivery like when I have the to where they give it to them. I. While as I have been in talks with other stores as well so if it does hope foods is going work out right well, whatever the solution is, it's gotta be convenient, convenient forcible. You know easy, and there has to be an education days to. Appease she showing. Hey, if you don't want us to make stuff, here's also stuff that you can do at home on your own get. The kids involved I. think that's a big thing to like. We don't evolve our kids in in the process of making our food so when the food is on the table. Like why don't you give me this? is so now. It's like involved in the whole family if they have time because we also know like you said you got single parents or whatever. Working two three jobs I was raised in a single family household. You know my mom was working our ass off because she was a manager for A. Bell south of Pacific Bell South Harrison Bay where we were and as a black person in the eighties as a managing role, a black lady at that she's putting in extra hours that the white guy that were under wasn't in. She had to show that she was cable this drive so. I chicken dinner every night because. It was frozen chicken from Sam's Club. Yeah it was easy I am plugged microwave. Told my daughters abroad. found. But. Then one day I just started putting Koya Web taught me. I just put a whole bunch of dishes in this when they went to use it regards. made the House on just put dishes. Used again. They had to learn how to Cook Analysis and glad you got teaching. It's. It's a trip. It's a thing that hasn't been around. My mother made me learn how to do everything. But yeah, it's I can't movie to come and it's exciting. It's exciting. I now like Cova does like push back a little bit. Yeah, you got some I want to retake. Muscles now. I've been able to work out. I'm framing my body back. I think I was really softened. About body was soft, my body stronger. The power that. A documented that whole it's to really shift. Culture is is super exciting new. Yeah, and it's where look you know the whole. Vegan thing Vegan movement. It's so super whitewashed dislike. Aspiration, of like the well-heeled and you know that needs to get that narrative needs to get shifted. And you know the fact you're doing that is, but you know what I found out When and I'M GONNA say it this way. White folks are Vegan and an to natural way of eating they a more empathetic and they understand. Slavery. What I mean by that they don't know it directly, but they don't want. The animals enslaved, and they understand the horrific treatment of animals, and that black folks at one time was submitted to the same level end still considered. that it's a better feeling when I'm around, vegans than I'm around a flesh eater. I'm around a flesh eater. You know they still think well. I can take my gun and go shoot a deer, and then I'm cool. And I go. Why don't you go hunting way to? Everybody got a gun. Right. Let's see how. Hunting sport is like a sport is when all parties involved part of the game like the animal doesn't have a phone glued. Give. When you think about it, the the overlap between you know how. I would like to think about myself. Approaching this situation and my you know how think about veganism and there's a huge overlap right? This is about like compassion. It's about you know being open to new ideas. It's about challenging your assumptions and. UNDOING! Some of that programming, none of us were born. Vegan we lived certain way in a certain way. We made a change and you know I would like to believe that. It's made me a more compassionate person but it has been interesting to kind of watch how the Vegan community is grappling with what's happening right now and you know some are doing it well, and some are not. And? That's disheartening to me because this is about compassion and and I would hope that everybody. Can you know think about that a little bit in terms of like how they're communicating and navigating? What's happening? Yeah I. Think I think also just that one thing that I saw it was Kinda like Kinda weird. Is that how you'll see? Vegans compare modern day, agriculture animal agriculture to slavery. They, will you? Speak that way then why wouldn't you speak up for the descendants of that same slavery like? They. That's the funny thing like they feel like. They can't speak up about it. Oh No, we only speak for animals like yeah, but if you are going to use slavery as you're, you're speaking note. The new, you can't be hypocritical by remember you know what I'm saying like an ICU that so many times across the board their use their so fast. It's like modern day slavery, okay, well, then his mind, and he slavery, You understand how powerful slavery was and how it trickled down. How do you fix can still be here, but you don't say anything. We enrich row now. They gotta say he's GonNa. Edit this shit. What about fifteen minutes sponsors Froyo? Trust let us. figure out how to put. A Barich, no bullshit I do and I was gonNA. Wrap this up. Now. That was my thing I'm GonNa just keep going until John? pull the plug. I'm. Empty Nester, my my kids away and it just me and my wife, and my puppy and I was like. Hey, what's your name? She goes my name. Is Data married you between? I. Wonder, who did read, it wasn't. Cool Man will thank you. Thank you appreciate it, man! I, really yeah. Yeah, thank you, try and man I gave it to you all right official. All the way to killing. Membership Card in the mail. Is You begin here? Fast. You Trust Me Lake. Is, stereotypes. By have a little bit of Barbecue, sauce! Going to disappear. Oh wait, I was we got about this. This is good, so anybody can do research, so I was found today that they when you talk about the trip down effective of racism, and how it's just been in place for so long, so you know the ice cream man, you know the truck when it comes around it. Has that song playing in the background? So there was a song that actually came from and in the lyrics like Niggers, watermelon in the song, so it is is opposed to right now and they actually it was recorded for Columbia records, and like nineteen, twenty six thirty six. One really. Maybe to anyway yeah, so they can find the song and the video that went along with. It is like this grey and white cartoon depiction of black face, and these they show them being excited about Eating watermelon excited about being. It's just so like those little things they turn at. Of course, they made it like instrumental out of, but ask shows you how? Long she'd has just been thrown into black people's phrases like now, I'll get over it. It's like no, you don't get over it like jingle bells to yeah jingle bells. Jingle bills the national anthem. Yeah. We only had to go into detail. Just people start googling the actual lyrics to the songs. and. He see what people get frustrated. It's like do this. She is right now face, but everybody like. Just over is okay. It's okay. It's not okay. This is going to be a great year twenty one. How about nine hundred twenty? Asian? Thing it was. The raid in twenties, it was like roaring. Wrongly Roy. So the covert twenties. But we gotta come up with this twenties something. Something I don't know what it is, but. I thinking is your vision. I think is just shown us some things. We weren't really looking for This show on a lot of Shit. Twenty show. We we we can do a lot. I'm saying it's like we can do a lot and I say that my my mother passed this year and then the day after buried Kobe died. And that was to Matt, and then we got locked down, and and then the economy happened. crashed and. president trump took over the Fed. And then what happened Lockdown Hillary's in court. for a crazy about the two like hours. He'll today I randomly just hit him up all the time like a just want. To see those up, and I don't know of the game you feeling and that's when I text. He was clean out his mom's apartment at the time. Told me the text some I has. fucking. Respond But he'll. He'll be back later though. But that's relationship. He'll hit me like hey, man. You need to watch this take care. It is like A. Big Brother Mentor kind of like being that. We got so anyway. He me back about his mom light to him. But some told me to hit him up and then right after that is funny because I was in La of the hey I'm in La. How come to La, I'll tell them even. Them. Is a problem if la and he found out later that I. saw. Say Hey I'm so lucky. Adult Chase broads anymore. So. I told them your like I'm in La. He's doing this. And then the next day was Kobe and I was like Shit, so I had to hit him back day, so I had hit him back after that I was like damn I heard about Kobe. Man Like I know. He was coast with Kobe, so a whole. You good man. You need anemia I'm here, but. I want people to like I don't. I hate hidden a people during like bad times because I already know. Eight thousand people hitting them up. It's always good to. People need to notice hit people up during the tough times. Good Times right when it when Shit is fly. Don't hit them. See I. See you. Hit Him with that. You know platform medicinal, but when it's tough times let people know. Hey if you need to call me back, I'm here. If not dude I totally understand I'm not wanting. People like well I called him, and they didn't call me back. It's like ego like let that person deal with the situation how they gotta do just let them know you're. Here if you need me, you probably don't need me, but if so I'm here, yeah, we should read the gift. Back. Good Life Lesson to put a pin in it. You GotTa get John Outta here. Man is getting Nancy Yeah. Right Steve thanks guys. Thanks! So that happened. I'm not quite sure what that was. But it was something right. It was definitely something. MUCH LOVE TO MR! Sally Ann Lewis for sharing their truth today. Please check out. The show notes on the Episode Page where I have enumerated a large catalog of resources, articles, books, films and nonprofits to today's discussion and current events at large. Check out the trailer for they're trying to kill us on my instagram page or on Youtube and let these gentlemen know how this one landed for you by doing it on the socials you can find sally at John Salley on Instagram, and at the John Sally on twitter and John, Lewis is of course at s Vegan on instagram and twitter. If you'd like to support the work we do here on the show, subscribe rate and comment on Apple, podcasts, spotify youtube places share the show or your favorite episodes with friends or on social media. I love that and. And, you could support us on Patriot at ritual dot com ford slash donate thanks to everybody who I'll put on today's show Jason. Kam Yellow for audio engineering production show notes and Interstitial Music Lake Curtis for videoing the show and creating all the clips. How do you guys like the new studio? Setups Pretty Bad Ass Jessica Miranda, graphics David Greenberg for today's portrait's decay for advertiser relationships and theme music by Tyler Pi Trapper Pyatt and hurry now. This appreciate you guys I love you see back here in a couple of days with another amazing episode until then. Be well. Treat your fellow brothers and sisters with gratitude. And kindness. Peace. Plans.

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