19 Episode results for "Salem Oregon"

#00 | 10 Bestest Trailer

10 Bestest

04:53 min | 5 months ago

#00 | 10 Bestest Trailer

"The. Hello curious humans. There are so many amazing things out there, but it is impossible to keep up with it all. That's where we come in. We sift through the noise. So you don't have to in this weekly rapid fire podcast. You'll hear all about ten things that were currently enjoying in our lives. Each of us has exactly two minutes to dive in and tell you about one of the things we've chosen, and before we talk about what we're going to talk about I want to tell you a little bit about my co host. Karen is a chemistry professor by day and a punk rocker by night she's actually in two bands. She's in city of pieces and all girl punk band hot sheets. Now, these are just two things that she does and it's probably enough for most normal humans, but she does a ton more. She's also the CO host for radio EXOTICA. She founded came Jozy, the radio station here in Salem Oregon. She's a tactic Salem speaker she has to other youtube channels and she's an amazing mother with two amazing boys and the cutest dog ever fish sticks most people call Griffin. I'm Lebanese warm fuzzies. Thank you and while I'm sitting here, Baskin in the love let me tell you about my co host Brian brands a video producer, but is also the hardest working community advocate. You will ever find on this planet. He is deeply involved in curing and volunteering uncountable local events. Ted Ex Salem. SEALANT progressive film series, real film snobs. He is also a longtime volunteer at Sundance. Film Festival he works at their reverse city. Rockstar Academy is involved at Make Music Day. The list goes on and on Brian is committed wholly with all of his heart to making the world. A better place is one of my dearest friends and best of all, he makes me laugh sometimes a bit too much because I'm going to break this Mike but Gaza so much fun to do this show. Oh Gosh. Thank you. Thank you so much It's still hard for me to hear about things like that but Yeah. Here we go. Well just makes you extra. Awesome. Let's be something samples of topics we draw from. I talked a lot about sustainability stuff. I like that kind of stuff to I. of course, I talk about movies and TV a lot. Yes and I bring in lots of music stuff I, know you too. Yes. Music's pretty cool. It's and. Attack, of course, oh my gosh I'm a tech nerd. About that new gadgets that I buy or. And I love love travel local travel long distance travel all about travel. Yes and for podcast I talk a lot about other podcasts because there's so many amazing podcasts out there and I like to share them. Yes and maybe related to travel and I also I know a couple of languages and I. I really love things that are language related. Yeah. I. Love Those cushy to include about those. I think we both talk a lot about mindfulness. That is true. Yeah. I and also I like talking about philosophical and religious concepts. Cool. Yes and I always like to try to bring up amazing humans. Or know what kinds of things they're doing because again, there's so many amazing people out there doing amazing things and we'll share those a lot. Oh, for sure and of course, me being a chemist and scientists I talk a lot about science Yes and I am not a chemist or scientist, but I still like to talk about science from a non science person's point of view I love it. We both love it so. Things we have in common. What else do I talk about? Oh I love to talk about books I. Don't read a ton but I buy a ton and I like to talk about them. Hey, and to our longtime listeners, we love you and do not worry. This is the exact same show. We just have a different name, very good point and to all of our new listeners. Welcome. We've been broadcasting this program it used to be called cool sheets throw local radio station came jozy since November. Two, Thousand Sixteen and now summer twenty twenty relaunching worldwide as ten bestest with a new episode every Monday at ten. Am Pacific One PM Eastern be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a single episode and head over to our website. Ten bestest DOT com. That's one zero bestest dot com. You can find out more about our cool sheets get show notes some links and also sign up for a monthly newsletter. Thank you all and stay curious.

Brian Salem Oregon Mike Ted Ex Salem Baskin Sundance Rockstar Academy youtube Karen Gaza professor Griffin scientist producer two minutes
How to create a visual oasis-Laura-ELY093

The Easy Living Yards Podcast

25:05 min | 1 year ago

How to create a visual oasis-Laura-ELY093

"What's up I'm Ben Hale and this is the easy living yards podcast? Creating Beautiful Yard should be easy. Let's jump in in create the Dream Yard. You deserve so you can enjoy more time doing what you love Welcome to episode ninety three of the easy living yards. podcast breath guys. I'm super excited to try a new thing today. And that is giving you guys a sneak inside peak on what it's like to work in the easy living yards membership. I Have Laura on today for a live video consultation. Call that we did and we had a super fun time together. I'm super excited to work with Laura to help her transform her front yard in a very unique way. We all have. Unique situation are yards. That's three reality. And so working together with Laura we figured out how we could really create a visual oasis in her front yard in a way that a lot of people people don't have in their front yard but again everybody's got a unique situation. So part of this design process is figuring out your unique tastes your the unique lifestyle and how we can transform your yard to fit into your unique tastes and lifestyle and way that doesn't take tons of work and it's actually gives back to your life. So let's jump in and listen to what Laura has to say and also how. We can work together to really transform Laura's new new front yard hey this is ben hale with easy living yards. And I'm really excited to bring on Laura her from Salem Oregon today so Laura's interested just like you guys in creating a beautiful low-maintenance eco-friendly landscape. So she can enjoy more time doing what she gloves. The Laura thanks for joining me. Yeah Hi Ben. Thank you for having me on Yes so we are here in. Salem Oregon My husband and I moved here. You're from Texas. Of course the climate and geography are completely different. We yeah and don't get me wrong. It's it's beautiful beautiful year and we're very outdoorsy me. Hike Bike Kayak. I'm a distance runner as well. And so we just we love the natural setting and the trees and all the season's just all the beautiful things about this country So here we are in our house. We've been in for about six to seven weeks and thank you. Yeah it is. So you know getting settled in and I work from home full time. I have have an online business and outside my lovely office window is a dead zone just a plain empty the zone that we cannot figure out what to do it so outside my window is it. Looks just like a gravel or rock a parking lot. Most it's an. It's not as big as a parking lights. Maybe twelve by twelve feet. The rest of property is gorgeous. I mean tall trees and Bush's in rocks and even some fruit trees. It's it's beautiful outside. These windows is nothing and so we don't what to do with the space. We're not very familiar with the climate in terms of the rainfall and the cloudiness and just things like that. We don't I don't know what to plant here but we know we wanted to natural who wanted to be something that we can look out of these windows and see something that is visually appealing like the entire tire. Rest of the houses windows. Look out onto an amazing view. These don't and we're stuck right now. Okay so let's dive in so I at this is really exciting and very helpful information too. So it's it's just you and your husband in the house in in so that just to recap the space is relatively small. We're talking almost like an outdoor room rate and a little hint of one of the thoughts. I have So it's a smallish space. It's pretty shady as well. Oh yes very shady. Because it's it's Kind of within a corner of the house so there are two walls that connect And then a rounded are so many beautiful tall pine trees which is great but then it creates this dark shadowed space. Okay all right. That's amazing. Yeah Yeah we just need to figure out how to dress it up. Okay all right and so I think you had said you had just had a few pictures. So do you mind just sharing. We can Those pictures wrote so. Yeah so just show you on my phone. Just hold it up. That would be sure so the one. I'm showing you right now. Now is standing on the hill in front of our house looking down to the space so we have master bedroom windows up top. We have two smaller bedrooms on the bottom and you can see what I'm talking about here with the dead space is just a okay. So you're in that in that corner bottom window right now. It's okay really interesting okay. And so So there right before we got on the call. You were saying that that was that was so you took that in the afternoon. Is that correct. Yeah late late afternoon early so it looks like it gets them like a just a tiny bit of late afternoon Sun Right not superstrong throughout the day right. Okay Okay and is that. Is that your front entrance right to the left of the or just to the left of that photo yes. It has a beautiful looking front entrance right. Yeah that part really is bright. Yeah so and then in this final image this is if I'm inside the room looking out okay and so you can see. There is definitely a natural element to the soon just really interesting. Is that the Pine Mulch on the the slight berm behind their yes. It is because that's I don't know if you can tell them an image but that's a pretty steep incline. That's not something that could that could withstand a lawnmower or grass or things like that. Yeah Okay and and then again before we got on the call here you were saying that that then drops down to the street behind that view right Thursday. That's right so it's pretty secluded so when I'm sitting here I cannot see the street and nobody in the street can see me okay in now from your second story do you. The over that berm then down to the to the road just a little bit early okay. Because you're kind of level with some of the lower branches of the trees so it's really secluded. It does feel secluded so okay so you have a wonderful opportunity. Then the sounds amazing from all four of those windows and sounds like if we recreate the space a little bit it can be almost like a visual oasis and so even if you're not in the space you feel like you're in the space so that's I'm really excited that what we could do with this face is a fantastic way to put it. Okay yeah a visual oasis whether you're in the space or not carry. I'm excited okay. So I I have a few ideas one. I kind of alluded to which is There's there's a concept of creating out when you create outdoor spaces as you can create almost like a room like a mood or something and so like instead of having physical walls that that defines a space. You just have differences of space so it really easy concept of like of how to perceive this as like Like a back deck like you have a deck has a pretty defined space to it and and then maybe next to it you have an actual like concrete patio or something or firepit and so each of those are different spaces kind of like an outdoor room and so you you have a physically defined space there as well and you could create almost like an outdoor room with it so it could be like How I guess before I go into my ideas there? In how easy is it to access that space from the outside. It's easy so we can walk out the front door turn left and you're in it. I there are. There are no no screens on these windows. I could step out right now because the bottom of the windows is just about a bigger okay. Maybe I will recommend that that at least from the front door though it's okay and so okay. That's actually wonderful. So one of the concepts than that I was thinking of is is if you took this space in and you could create like almost like a like a border around it of plantings for example people To kind of further define the space and make access to like almost like a step path or something that comes from the into the space. It shows clearly that people are welcome into the space so not only you but also guests maybe might be welcome into the space. So if you're welcoming somebody to your house they might come to the front door and you might say well. It's beautiful outside. You WanNa come over here and just Kinda hang out or whatever and it's this beautiful space for entertaining. Usually people think of the backyard hard for that but you could also maybe include a space like this in the front yard too. That's that's open and welcoming and and it's clearly defined as a space for Andrew to entertainment entertainment or relaxing or something. I could see that because it is secluded from the street and yet highly accessible from the Francia. Yes So yeah yeah especially because it's secluded like you're saying so there's that tall berm on the far side provides probably a sound and visual be barrier. So you probably not hearing as much sound from the street but yeah you're you're basically kind of hidden in that space and you had those giant tall trees right there too that just create that sense of being outside side and being almost like in a forest or something like that. Yeah so so what you could do that as a few So this is just one idea is like a few spaces for seating for example. Like a few benches or something or comfortable chairs like like patio furniture. And you could even have. It's it's probably too close to the house for like a fire pit or something that maybe like a like an outdoor coffee table. There's something something where like it's clearly for relaxing and enjoying the space space. And so then you don't have to worry much about planting all of it. You could create a subsurface that you enjoy underneath those those benches and chairs our tables that you don't have to sit there and mow the lawn or anything like that because it's really difficult to grow grass there anyway probably around it plant some beautiful perennial plantings like maybe some short growing grasses or some very small shrubs or perennials You know a mixed mixed amount of plants Lance there that kind of breathing space into more of a natural space and it doesn't look so sterile an empty so that's one. I like the sound of that. So what what what would be some examples of principles. That might do well on his face like that that I could look into. Yeah so I will have to get back to you on that. Because I'm not fully well-versed on Salem Oregon plants so there's tons of resources wherever you live especially I love native plants. Install it especially with your interests of of you're saying as a really outdoorsy. It will give you that feeling of using some native plantings there will will and they can look really pretty to. They don't have to like a lot of people think native plants has to be like some like on mowed lawn or something that looks really rough But so you can really create a lot of beauty with native plants but it also gives a really clear sense of the space of the place you live so what we can do is find in some some native plants suggestions from your region since. I'm not an expert in Oregon plants but but off the top of my head. I would guess something like Like some like black eyed Susan tight flowers that those are really pretty. Those types of spaces took took tucked in between like some grasses blunting grasses that have some beautiful plumage I guess you could say to and so all year round. And even when they're they're dead the grass is look beautiful and they they sway in the wind or whatever they give a lot of sense of movement and life even in the winter months when things are kind have a little bit more sterile so Given your more temperate climate too so in winter for you you know. It's still relatively mild near on this sunny afternoon. You might be able to go out there and enjoy the space still and so having having a little bit of movement out there a little bit of life is still nice so Let me get you some suggestions for that. Ah a follow up with you on that and then I mentioned like some really small shrubs too so you could potentially find like Like a even if you if you wanted ended evergreen you could have a few evergreens in there just to have some color all year round. But you definitely don't want to Overdo it with that too so we take some really small like juniper slash Cedar Cedar type Shrubs that that would kind of fit in that space and I don't know if we really want to go to the tree level or small trees easy even because they might over. You're talking about a twelve foot by twelve foot space so they might do it and so we probably wouldn't WanNa go that far idea the smaller ones once and I'm really going to hold onto your recommendation of native plants because we do want it to be low maintenance and so that just seems like it'll be low-maintenance maintenance. It will fit in nicely with the surroundings and it won't look like something that's not really supposed to be there so that gives me direction for sure right there with you on that. So that's good so I had one other thought so if you if you don't like the idea of making it like an entertainment space you could also consider just totally filling the space to certain extent you could still have some areas with rock that almost the Nice thing about rock is kind of like on that that Burned behind you in the picture you showed you had some some larger rocks. Yes if if you have rocks situated no matter what the size in kind of of a flowing arrangement directionally it can give that sense of flow or movement still just from a visual artistic standpoint and so in the absence of I'd say like a it almost feels like it's like a stream bed or something like that when you perceive it and so you could kind of keep some of that rock element there if you like that that idea and it looks like a naturalized space almost but then you wanna Tuck some plants in there as well to make it look like a stream bed or something where it looks like. It's it's meant to be there basically instead of just a giant gravel patch or something like that and so so that's a concept you could do if you want it semi open still or you can completely fill the space with plants as well and so that one might be a little bit tougher UNLESS WE WANNA go to like the small to medium size trees especially closer to the berm there And to really kind of fill in that space and almost like provide further screening but also pretty view as well so you would have like some taller plants maybe farther back And I guess trying to trying to think of direction so your the House the Front of Your House is on the south side. Is that correct. Let me think about that. Well okay. Let's we'll yeah. Okay yes yes it is all right so so then. If we're if we're looking out the front door facing south yes so you would. You would probably plant the largest this tree and and we're still talking pretty small size trees here some. You wouldn't want something that's growing more than maybe twenty feet or so because you you have those big mature trees and in And also you have these smaller trees closer to the house. So you don't put any risk toward your house as well with the roots roots or the giant branches growing next to your house And and also it's just a small space you don't overcrowded so if we're talking small to medium trees especially it could be like some evergreens like like some juniper type trees so there's like a western Red Cedar. I know as a tree and I believe there's some cultivars ars out there. That look really pretty. So it's pure middle type tree but you don't again want to Overdo this so let me let me get you some plants industrial have to do some thinking about this but okay just thinking of the shapes we'd has some medium sized trees especially in the south getting all turned around here. The the South West corner of the right Southeast Corner Base Corner would be the largest and then you would want something. Smaller caller closer to your front entrance was his straight South Because you don't want to over be spilling over in blocking the the view of your front entrance of your house And then so and then coming closer to your house Away from the Berm and close to your house closer to the windows. You would kind of step down so you might have a few shrubs. Interspersed disperse there and then stepping down into some basis perennials and grasses and you could even plant that space to look like a like a fancy designed prairie. I guess so you don't it depends on your on your tastes. Maybe you want it to look completely natural and have a wild pollinator meadow. So that's one idea. Or if you want something to look a bit more cultivated you can also take similar plants and have specific groupings of them. So you can have like groups of grasses and flowers and under coming into bloom at different offensive year in its complex of planting but it can look really beautiful And and so you have like these different POPs. Throughout different prince spots as things kind of come in like fade in arise and fade basically throughout the year. That's really helpful. And while you were describing that I was is kind of sketching it out on the stage in front of To help visualize what that would look like. I see what you're saying. That could be a kind of a progression of have relatively high to medium to low yes route relative to the height of the mature trees. That are already there but that would fill in the area nicely It especially if different things are coming into bloom at different times of the year. Yes I like what you mentioned earlier about. You know some taking advantage of some of the company type grasses so that there's movement especially some of those colder wetter the winter months so I could see I. Yeah I can see it in my head I mean I I was sketching describing it but yeah I can see it my head so this makes it seem very doable and now the space ace that has felt so open and barren seems like we can make this into something really really pretty cozy looking so awesome. That makes me really good Okay awesome so I guess. Yeah so what I'll do is all I'll follow up with a like. Maybe a quick sketches. Well of maybe a few of the things I'm talking about and then Kinda let me know how you're feeling afterwards is just just as a follow up With whatever you WANNA do in also try and provide you some plant suggestions and then we'll kind of just via email we can kind of catch up and see how things are are looking after that. Sound good yeah. That sounds great because this is a plan going forward now but that is fantastic. Talk Support after this call knowing that there may be some questions that come up as we're implementing so yes yeah and so. I guess that that's our follow up. Step is there anything specific while we're or we're here together. Anything specific also about that space that you want to maybe touch upon Just one question as we're talking about. What would go in this space is? Are there any general rules of thumb. About how close to plant at some of these items even even small items like like some of those clumping grasses is. Is that something to keep away from the house is is it okay to have them up against it. Are there any rules rules for that for the smaller plants There's there's not really any set rules with the house. It's not going to provide a risk to your house the biggest risk because when you have very large shrubs or trees that are going to grow up next to your house and so the the top growth will be brushing up against your house messing exciting or or or or gutters or anything like that and also you have almost a mirror image underneath your soil of roots in so those roots can mess with your foundation Dacian That sort of thing but is far as the smaller plants like your your basis perennials. which are the the The perennials that the top dies back and the route survive and then they grow up again in the spring Order your perennial grasses yet. Those are okay and those aren't going to provide an issue now. The only thing is when you really close to your windows windows for example You won't want something that's kind of if you don't want something that's going to restrict them from opening of course you're probably GonNa want really work it growing type plants right up your house there. Okay got yeah. That's something important I think about. I I keep looking out my window I can see this so yeah okay awesome. Well thanks so much Laura. I'm really glad we could help with your space there and I really look forward to seeing what you can do with it. So thanks for joining me. Yeah absolutely the traveling with Ben. Thanks Laura guys. I don't know about you but I had such a fun time working with lower there and I also learned some things to myself so if you want to be involved with this. This is a premium option in the easy living yards membership. You can go over to easy living yards dot com slash membership to check out the the options for you to join the membership as well. I'm so excited to help. People like Laura and yourself to work on transforming your yards so you can create a better yard for you in your family and also a yard that is low maintenance is easy it's beautiful it also helps improve the world around us so guys going over checkout easy living living yards dot com slash membership a look forward to seeing you in the membership cheers. Ra guys one more thing. If you're listening to this in November remember soon after the podcast airs. I've got a cool new feature that I'm trying to Launch and I want you to be aware of it in case this is something interesting to you so I am offering free live trainings on various topics over the next month or so. And I'm going to test out this new idea to see how much you guys like it. So if you're interested on what to do with your yard now so you can stop stressing enjoy life more. That's the first topic topic I'm going to talk about. These will be live trainings. So go over. Check out the link for the next live training in the show notes. You can go over to easy easy. Living yards dot com slash live to check out the information and join for the next live call. I'm super excited. It to work live with you guys to be able to talk with you. Answer your questions at the end of the training as well so basically what we're GONNA do is. We're going to talk about a specific civic topic. So in this one it will be what to do with your yard now. So you can stop stressing enjoy life more interested in that topic and if if you're overwhelmed with your landscape if you feel stressed about your landscape this is the perfect opportunity to really get some just helpful training to get started on what to do with your landscape next so I'm super excited to work with you guys after the training I'll have a live. Qna as well where we can. I can answer your questions. So there's like a live have chat option and so after I'm done doing the training piece or the you know the session. Whatever you WANNA call it then I will answer your specific questions and we'll go through them and and really try? Try and make a positive difference in your landscape. So if you're interested going over check it out easy living yards dot com slash live. I look forward to chatting with you guessed guys as always. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure you live with passion and make tomorrow better than today and.

Laura Salem Oregon Oregon Dream Yard Ben Hale Texas Bush Southeast Corner Base Corner Qna Andrew Susan Red Cedar twelve foot seven weeks twelve feet twenty feet
He Threatened to Cough On Everyone

KILF Morning New Podcast

06:43 min | Last month

He Threatened to Cough On Everyone

"With all the Pandemic pandemonium we get stories of people being stupid. Yeah especially when they have enough money to pay for what they need to pay for a long island. Schools superintendent reportedly threatened to cut off on everyone and spread the disease at his gm if they didn't extend a freeze on his membership amid the pandemic extend a freeze elite. Understand what you can. I do this at my gym. Like a pause. Yeah exactly puts off your termination day. Well no i mean like. I pay a certain amount of money per month for my monthly member gym membership. I can put it on on pres for up to six months if i get hurt. Or if there's some extenuating circumstances and those extenuating circumstances now is covid nineteen because you're too afraid to go to the gym so i pay sti- still pay like thirty dollars a month for the membership to hold it. But i don't pay. That's a fraction of what. I pay on a monthly basis for the membership for the family. Membership why what do you mean why you're not going because we haven't been going well. Why pay if you're not going because that's what it is to pause membership or else you have to re sign up and it's like three times as expensive to re sign up because i was one of the founding members of this particular jim okay but it's but i took it off freeze now because my daughter's been going You nobody's coughing on anybody and now technically that bill. Hendon reich is superintendent at the valley stream central high school district. He left multiple voice messages and texted the orange theory fitness last month before a freeze on his gym membership was set to expire in texas. Allegedly claimed he was a close contact with someone who has covid positive and in quarantine. He said i'm demanding. That you freeze my membership for another month. If you don't. I'm going to cough all over. Everyone allegedly said he wanted the voicemails. What a baby really on your tilt says. And you're a superintendent a school district. Of course you have standing in the community. Just just pay the membership so a little dignity dignity sir. Jim called the police but manages decided not to press the charges. And then here's another thing the the somebody With the with. Jim said he made our staff feel extremely uncomfortable and threatened. Well i doubt that really you know people to just be jerks but still i mean you're superintendent of a major school district on long island. I'm sure you make you know mid six figures you can probably pay arns theories that much well as we said at the outset of this segment you see a lot of idiots during the pandemic licensed medical community who stand on the steps of the oregon state capital and make statements that contradict the centers for disease. Control may soon find themselves unlicensed. A doctor by the name of stephen lot to leap. According to the salem oregon statesman journal who publicly dismissed covid nineteen as quote a common cold virus and said that he wanted to expose what. I call corona mania. I mean you have the right to be stupid. Isn't that freedom of speech to stand on the state capitol steps and say what you want to say the yankees license. That's not right. He said i hate to tell you. This might scary. But i and my staff. None of us wants war a mask in my clinic now. Maybe that's the basis on their pulling his license. I don't know he got a letter. From the oregon medical board it said at five fifteen pm on december third. The board voted to issue an order of emergency suspension to immediately suspend licenses medical license due to the boards concern for the safety and welfare of licenses current and future patients. Those very nice. But it's wrong if you're if you're if you go to your doctor during this pandemic for whatever reason i think it it it it's it's on you to find out what your doctors attitude is about covid nineteen and the protocol surrounding whether a lot of doctors that are homeopathic doctors that liked to do natural treatments on somebody rather than official treatments they violating rules to exactly because they have a different philosophy question should their license be pulled. This has nothing to do with kovac right when it comes right down to it. Let the buyer beware you. You're the consumer. You're you are the patient. You're the client if you were. You should know a little bit about your doctor to whether to know whether or not you're comfortable with his or her belief it's just like going to a restaurant where they're not wearing the masks if they're not wearing the masks in you're not comfortable. Don't go to that restaurant. Yes exactly because we wanted to go to a particular steakhouse for dinner. And i heard from someone else that they weren't wearing masks. They're the people working. There weren't wow and so i said to my husband. I don't know that. I want to go there. If they're not wearing their masks. Yeah yeah he said you could call and find out. I said but i don't want to be in a position of being there and then have to leave and not being embarrassed but just having to go through that whole thing yeah. Speaking of restaurants. I mentioned The beginning of the hour that we We went We went out with friends who were visiting from out of town and they wanted to go to the all the rodeo events in stock yards area so we did a little nervous about going out there anyway but i i would estimate that maybe i don't know twenty five to thirty percent of rather large crowd out there yesterday was masked up and everybody else was not and we went into a restaurant there. bar restaurant it was. It was ninety. Five percent capacity really. Yeah they couldn't find could have been and they weren't six feet apart. I would imagine it was impossible. So did you stay in there. Yeah we did because we had the eat. I mean we were starving. There was no place else to go. The the whole stock yards area was packed. And at that point you're going well. It's just us in our little table and i'll just hope for the best i you know. I don't understand people but that's the way it is just the way it is.

thirty dollars jim okay Hendon reich valley stream central high sch long island arns stephen lot salem oregon statesman journal oregon medical board Jim six months cough mania texas oregon yankees kovac cold thirty percent Five percent
Episode 426: Ponderosa & Thymes Katie Davis; plus, our state focus: Tennessee

Slow Flowers with Debra Prinzing

1:09:22 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 426: Ponderosa & Thymes Katie Davis; plus, our state focus: Tennessee

"Hello again and welcome back to the slow flowers. podcasts Deborah Printing episode four hundred and twenty. Six this is the weekly podcast about American flowers and the people who grow and assigned with them. It's all about making a conscious choice and I invite you to join the conversation and the creative community as we discuss the vital topics of saving our domestic flower farms and supporting a floral industry. That relies on a safe seasonal and local supply of flowers and foliage. This podcast is brought to you by slow. FLOWERS DOT com the free nationwide on my directory. To florus shops is studios who designed with American grown flowers and to the farms that grow those blooms. It's it's the conscious choice for buying and sending flowers and thank you to our lead sponsor Flores Review magazine. I'm delighted to serve as contributing editor for slow flowers. Journal found in the pages of Florus Review. It's the leading trade magazine in the floral industry and the only independent periodical for the retail. Tell Wholesale and supplier market take advantage of the special subscription offer for members of the slow flowers community at Deborah printing dot com where you can also also find the show notes for today's episode four hundred and Twenty Six and now through the end of the year you can take part in the buy one give one subscription program and I'll have a special link to that to our first sponsor thanks goes to farmers Web Farmers Web software makes it simple for flower farms to streamline working with their buyers. Here's by lessening the administrative load and increasing efficiency farmers web helps your farm save time reduce errors and work with more buyers overall. Tom Learn more at farmers web dot com. Today we're continuing our theme for two thousand Nineteen Fifty states of slow flowers with Laura. The big be fought of Whites Creek. Flower Farm in Whites Creek Tennessee. Listen for my conversation with Laura in the second portion of this episode but I I I'm delighted to introduce you to Katy Davis of Ponderosa and time. Katie and I first met in the spring of two thousand fourteen while attending a little flower school workshop. At shriners Iris Gardens in Salem Oregon I was there to produce an article about the class for Country Gardens magazine and Katie. A hometown Gal was one of the many talented designers attended a few years. Later would may ash wholesale florist plan. It's Portland Oregon Branch Grand Opening Katie. And and I were invited to present designed demonstrations during the party. It was such a thrill to share that experience with her for me. Gave me a new appreciation for Katie's artistry extre- and affinity for designing with color texture and nature as her Muse Ponderosa and time. Join slow flowers in two thousand eighteen and I've been wanting to interview Katie and share her amazing story with you ever since as I stay in our conversation it's silly that Katie and I live in adjacent states and yet have waited this long to record our episode. Let's blame the slaps in part to our mutual busy travel schedules. Katie has been a nomadic floral design educator for the past several ears and well you know I'm always on the road myself to be fair though. She's not a nomad but an artist whose desire is to develop and lead experiences and opportunities opportunities centered around creativity. Authenticity and personal growth florist is the artistic medium. Katie uses to facilitate these experiences. This Katie is known for nurturing supportive and inspiring learning environments that are immersive intimate beautiful warm she values environments where people can be truly early present and connect honestly with themselves and others in their pursuit of artistic expression and a sustainable life. Katy Davis is an internationally acclaimed named florist based in Salem Oregon the heart of the Willamette valley since founding Ponderosa and time in two thousand eleven Katie has become known for her textual designs lines inspired by nature. Her floral designs use the most luxurious and beautiful flowers available while incorporating locally foraged unique and sensory plants into into each arrangement the result is a visually breathtaking experience. Katie's design aesthetic could be best described as playful romantic irby and fragrant in addition to creating florals for intimate weddings. Katie and her team host incredible workshops worldwide for floors and other creatives to explore the Arctic. Arta Floral Design Ponderosa and time continues to offer wedding and event services specializing in intimate and heartfelt experiences with a heart for education. Katie has been teaching floral design since two thousand fourteen serving clients across the globe. Flowers are a language of their own while teaching English. Katie is able to cross cultures offers with her thoughtful and emotional approach just as comfortable teaching the basics as she is pushing experienced professionals to expand their creative boundaries. Katie loves to help people. People grow discover and connect the Ponderosa Workshop Retreats Have Taken Katie to Italy Scotland France. Australia and New York. She's also been invited. Vital to teach in Korea Mexico and across the US with the advent of twenty twenty the ponderosa classroom in Salem Oregon is gearing up for a full series of workshops including one day and two day intensive sessions that focus on specific skills techniques and designs to facilitate artistic expression in floral design. Inner Dr Conversation. You'll hear Katy discuss decision in two thousand eighteen to lease a brick and mortar location in her beautiful hometown. I'm thrilled to share our chat with you and I invite Vite you to visit. Today's show notes for Episode Four Hundred Twenty Six at tepper prison dot com to see images of Katie her workshops her new classroom space and her floral art. We'll also share links to her social places so you can find and follow Condor Osa and time. Let's get started Welcome back to the slow flowers. PODCAST with Deborah Printing. And I'm so delighted today to have someone on as a guest who have been trying to link up with for a long time. Welcome Katy Davis of Ponderosa and time. Hi I'm so thrilled to be here. Finally with you has been a long time coming. I know it's pathetic that were once stayed away from each other but it's very difficult not to connect so Thanks for saying. I'm so glad I've something I've been wanting to do Thanks for happy. You bet well Katie and I met originally really I think about four years ago maybe at a workshop at shriners irises right totally. Yep I forgot that's where we first met our no true you and it was a wonderful little flower school workshop and then we teamed up. Did a little demo together which I feel so embarrassed that I was sharing the stage to automate Yash. Were vent all my word. I had this. I had a similar feeling about you know like I was feeling like I'm sitting standing next to greatness at me. I felt totally out of my league designing next year. It was really an honor. Oh usually a the moment that I look much affection and feeling like I was growing up the designing Thank you that's released at least kind of you. It was really a fun. Event and I've I've followed. I followed your amazing career and with just complete of awe. Aw and I'm so happy that you joined slow flowers. I know you are an advocate for sourcing locally and seasonally when you can and you're you're based in Salem Oregon right yeah yes I am. I have a classroom in downtown. Salem and the historic area building is Mac DAB right there exa capital beautiful. I love that and you are kind of in the you know the the part of Oregon that is agriculturally rich with with farms and yet wineries but also flower firms. So let's start by. Just I'd like to ask you to just give us a snapshot of Ponderosa and time as it looks today and then we'll we'll backed up a little bit in a while and get the get your journey. How do you describe Ponderosa Time Today? I like that Right now okay right now I'm sitting in my In my classroom and right now it's empty so it's a little equity but when there's the people in here it's a really warm and beautiful We've got windows. That are that. Wrap the side of the building that we're on and so we just have incredible Window Light Let's face Light airy beautiful we have natural wood floors that have been you know not restored restored but kind of lovingly. They're very distressed and we just we just made them. We lead into that so there are these beautiful distressed floors. There's and we're just feel really lucky to be in a in a historic part of Salem And really right down in the middle of where everything is happening in Salem. So Yeah I feel like I I kinda lucked out with the space that we have And and we teach classes and here is it's my dream. It was always my dream to have a place to teach I never imagined that it would be in my hometown. I kinda thought it would take me. You know going somewhere else. And so when the space became available in my in my home town the place that I grew up You know and it seemed like the city. He was ready for what we're doing so we just leaned in to see and it's and it's been really successful. It's been really wonderful. Teach classes you know. People come in from all over the world to learn about about flowers and experience the beauty of the Willamette valley and I feel really honored to be able to be apart right in the middle of it. All all right in the middle of all this amazing agricultural amazing flowers Yeah it's really special and I feel like I get to introduce these people to it. I love you know and I used to take it for granted where we live but really everything grows hair. It's really incredible. And I know it's not normal to to be surrounded by amazing so I thought well let's make Salema destination for Florida's. Let's make it a place where people want to come and learn about this incredible environment. Then you know neat then you open to kind of our goal. Yeah and you open the classroom within the last year right. Yes Ah we've been in our face now sending year in October. Oh Wow okay well happy other exactly. Yeah and a roughly. How big is it in square footage twice? Oh Gosh I'm horrible at square footage We like to have classes of eight people. Definitely perfect call people at our classes and everybody has a table so you know not set up and it's cozy but it's not too tight and you know that's that's about the size I right listen. Katie share some photos. And we'll put them on the show notes for today's episode. Then people can see it. Okay I'll never and just being being a pacific North Westerner. I have to say Salem Elim if for anyone who's listening in does not know where Salem is. It's just a very short less than one hour. Drive from Portland Oregon International Airport. So you really are in Anna like a relatively accessible hub from major airport really really close. Yeah so in addition to your classes classes that people can go take account. Come to Salem and take with you. You have a really active online presence. icy you go live almost every day with some very spontaneous. I don't think it's scripted. It's just you going live on. Meteorite that true. Yes so how did how did how did that. Become part of your brand so it was a natural sort of need of that. I saw I. I experimented with instagram. Live almost as soon as it came out and I thought you know this seems like something that will help people to be able to understand who I camas human and not just Beautiful photos on a screen and so It was really important to me. Is The people connected with me as a as a person and not just a brand um from the beginning and so as soon as you know that tool became accessible for me I realized that that was something that I could use to really help people. We'll get to know me and be able to reach the people that I want to reach and it and it really has done that for me. I it's not scripted. I usually don't plan it very well. And sometimes that shows shows You know but I do have a really amazing group of people that I get to connect with online on instagram daily. And it's it's it's pretty special. Wow and Katie I. I'm just curious about your personality. Do you consider yourself an extrovert or like how do you. It's your you just seem so natural and yet. I don't think you're extremely I don't know I don't think you're somebody who brags about herself or who has to kind of be the in the spotlight. It's more authentic and kind of personal the way you approach communication. I really appreciate those words because I it's weird to say those words that yourself but it's nice to hear them I you know I don't. I don't consider myself an an extrovert. I technically when I took the test X. number introverted I actually showed up as an ambivert. Which is somebody who's right in the middle middle of extroverted and introverted technically? I'm a little bit more. Introverted than extroverted but indifference can be great performers and they're good on a stage And so even though. I leaned toward the introverted side. I do you need a lot of alone time to recharge. I also love being with people I need to be with the people. I love people why I do what I do. people are my passion and Yeah I'm passionate about people but I need a lot at low time to recharge so got. I've got to figure that that one out yet that falls under balance right so Italy. Yeah totally while I like it. It's really fun and it's also I it's unexpected like if I'm on if I'm scrolling through instagram and you up I just jump in for a little bit but it's not like it's not like you're scheduled super scheduled like nine. AM every day okay. Now that's fun. No that's not my personality. I wish I was. I wish I the more scheduled person but no are you. Are you not good at that. But that's okay I think we all I like the spontaneity of it seems to be authentic as as well like I kind of wanted you to comment a little bit on. What do you want to share with people? Are you in almost always in your studio or on location somewhere or or are you shopping for flowers. What all of the above? Yeah I mean I I try to just take people behind the scenes to moments that I find find really beautiful That's usually when I'll go behind the scenes for stuff is like usually when I'm experiencing something just really really beautiful and I think you know this might really encourage somebody or this might really Really speak to a large group of people on instagram right now. I just want to share this with them and I don't do that. was everything like yesterday I was experiencing sending really really beautiful at my house and I thought Oh gosh maybe I should go live and I thought no no no. I'M GONNA stay president here with my fam- right now. So I don't I don't go live all the time But there are moments that I feel like our special share with people. A Lotta Times like if we're doing a photo shoot for workshop or something and I think Oh this is really beautiful and I feel like I've been present enough then I'll I'll do something like uncle life maybe in those was in but The other reason is usually just because I have an idea Then I wanNA share with the group and I just WanNa try something something out and I want to share it with them maybe the process of it Or I feel like I have kind of a message for our community that I wanNA share message of connection action or hope usually It just kinda depends on a lot of times. I feel like sharing that message through the medium of flowers whether I'm doing a far meditation meditation or doing a tutorial is a great way to kind of reach people heart I feel like you know the social media world is really full of a lot out of comparison and a lot of anxiety and I kind of just WanNa be a moment of peace in the middle of it all. That's my hope. When you get online that people could interact with my feet per minute and they'd walk away feeling better about themselves afterward? I love that well the Ponderosa in time time business name has a story. I'm sure and I'm curious in a war. When when did you start the business and what was your original? Maybe you original version of ponderous. Rousson time I know it's evolved to hear about that it totally has PADRAS and time started seven seven years ago. I think. Gosh I'm really bad at my time. I but Before that I was Katy Davis flowers and events. I used to coordinate weddings and events and do the flowers for them I'm really good at coordinating weddings. I realized pretty soon that you know I really wanted to coordinate. My own events They turn that energy. So you know of doing things for other people and turned it into energy for my business and I started. Coordinating my own. workshops and retreats and stuff like that and started focusing more on flowers instead of that work Like coordinating stuff Realizing that I needed to put my energy into one thing and I was definitely more passionate about the flower process so I just focused on flowers and got better at them and really you know I've been doing it. I've been where I worked in a flower shop when I was sixteen I've been doing flower sense. I'm thirty you who got Sheldon I. I'm thirty seven to two thirds of your life. Yeah two thirds of your life doing this. Wow Yep it's my my passion it's my life feels like a like a another win on my body you know Yeah so I feel like it's always been there but I think you know when I decided to make the leap from you know trying to do everything to really focusing in on flowers and and perfecting my art form around that I really fell in love with it with artistry of it And and I'm a natural teacher. I've also had teaching jobs throughout my life and different aspects And I started wondering if you know maybe the things that I learned in the past teaching different kinds of things maybe that would you know translate into flowers and so I tried it out in my front living room for Christmas centerpiece class and You know the rest is history discovered that I love teaching flowers as much as I love teaching other things things and that was really good at it and so that was pretty early on in honor of time I knew that I was going to teach probably within the first year or and a half Yeah so I was. I've been duly my business to get to a point where I could just teach. Because that's that is my passion. I love flowers I consider forestry my art form But teaching is my passion. Wow so when you talk about teaching through Ponderosa and time have pre sounds like pretty early on you. Stop pursuing wedding bookings for four weddings. Yes I took a lot of weddings. You know for the income for sure but there was also an element of it that I really wanted to learn as much as I could so that I can have the conversations about weddings. You know with people that are doing them. I wanted to be able to teach out of a place of knowing So I still take events and weddings. I learn a lot from them every I am. I do them so I always have something to talk about This last year though I only took I think three three events right right but your that I really respect that because there is that that that added those who can't teach or some stupid thing like that and you're you're you're defying defying and. It's usually about academics. Not Not Florida. But you're right here though. Yeah your your current enough in knowing that demands of wedding forestry but when you do teach those questions inevitably come up from your students. You're able to give them real life advice from from your experience and I worked in the wedding industry doing wedding for three years. Yeah I mean I I know it in. I know the industry in-and-out out I I. I decided pretty pretty soon into my career that I didn't think I wanNA big weddings You Know I. I had the opportunity to work on a few really really large weddings with large budgets. And I realized that world isn't for me. There's there's a lot of reasons why which is really big conversations but for me. Big Weddings are are not the kind of celebration that I that I would normally want to take on. And so that meant that my the budget for in general going to be a lot smaller And that's primarily. The world that I know is smaller wedding budget industry because I chose like I said pretty early on to not really try to pursue really really big event. But that's hard you know to to not do big events. You I mean your budget's going to be you know you're the budgets that you're working with are going to be a lot smaller which means you're gonNA have to do a lot more and for me. I knew that doing weddings wasn't my passion and so I had to pretty quickly make the decision to just dive into teaching. If I wasn't GonNa do for weddings and a weekend we'll from met first workshop in your living room. Teaching Christmas Design A to international teaching workshops shop slash retreats. I feel like they're really experiences that you're leading How did that I mean what was the first big FREAKING scary. We risk. You took to put one of those. Those destination workshops together well. I think that you use the term perfectly freaking scary. That's exactly what it was and I don't recommend to anyone do what we did You know we. We put our personal finances on the line for that workshop shop We we Faith or rented a space that was incredible very expensive All all of the Richard Star because the locations. Go to our incredible. And that's part of it but you know the very first one. I had only done one. Retreat leap before I did it as a test. Run to make sure I could to pull one off and afterwards I knew. Oh Yeah. I've got this this is going to be great And I I was in Ireland Kind of Last minute ship to Ireland. I'd never actually gone on a solo trip before I'd never been to Europe and I got asked to do flowers or a Sotogrande workshops in Ireland and I got my plane tickets a long story but the plane ticket or the plane ticket and my passport came. You know the day before I had to get on a plane I've been raised by the seat of my pants sense Ireland was definitely a whirlwind trip for me. I learned a lot about sourcing. Flowers and other places It was a it was a trial by fire but I but I made it in on that trip. I met the people who introduced me to the idea of even taking a workshop to England I met Sarah from wedding sparrow and she helped me and connected me with some people And the next April I think that was is in July and the next April. I had my first workshop in England and it was it was a magical experience. Definitely the biggest financial risk I've ever taken for my business or myself personally And it was definitely scary. We didn't know if we'd sell the tickets it. It was a huge risk but I believed in in the what I felt like it was the calling is a teacher. I believe that I might. People are all over the world and I needed to go to them Because I knew that if I just started something here in Salem they might not find me but if I went to England. It's pretty central and sure enough. You know we had twelve all students from eight different countries And it was humbling. I mean I cried every night when I went to bed so I was so overwhelmed by it And I still feel that way. Every time I teach a retreat and it sells and people come I you know I just cry when a workshop south out. 'cause I can't believe it GonNa Lucky And I'm crying on the phone. I know I'M GONNA tear up to. I mean it's just it's there's nothing better than doing what you love love and knowing that you're enriching the lives of others and that's what teaching in its purest. Form is true so in a in addition to England Ireland whether countries have you led workshops in Oh man well actually haven't led a workshop in Ireland. Oh Me Oh okay. Yeah but that was my first trip. My first trip to Europe was I was doing flowers for workshop right. Okay Yeah but We Ireland's come in. I'm hoping for it. We've done workshops in England. We've done them Spain We were in Italy you this year and last year We've been in France twice Gosh I'm trying to think of anywhere else we've been I have taught ought in Mexico. I didn't leave the workshop there but I got I was. I got to do some guest teaching there that Super Special and I know I'm cricketing Oh Okay I put on the spot with that well and then in addition to teaching Kind of closer to home. And which is you've done workshops shops similar to your international ones in Oregon. Haven't you yeah. I'll tell ya one in Oregon. We've done we've done some On on on the East Coast as well in the south Just kind of we've kind of spread out and I've done a lot of guests teaching to Sometimes they kind of overlap so it just it just sorta depends on you know a lot of times. They'll come in as a guest teacher for like a multi teacher conference always really really fun kind of like Lower Stockley. We're talking about right right so tell me if if someone was ask you your aesthetic. How would you describe it? I mean it's I don't Wanna I know what I would think but I want to hear what you have to so I'm like I want to know what you think I don't know I always think of it as being fragrant and Irby and textural I love lots of textures. I don't know I always think about the way it smells when I look at my mother's so what I want you to sign that Pantai Bouquet When we were doing that may ship and a couple of years ago? Oh Yeah I just was enthralled by the anonymous minimalist minimalists at all. You are but Lou. But you're able to take what might to some seem like a complete. You know ECLECTIC pile. Hi of flowers and integrate them by using balance in line and color and form repetition and color echoes goes and all all the things that artists would do on a pallet on canvas. The whole the end result is so surprising. In extreme compared to the you know the starting point of just a bunch of stems on the table it was lovely to walk. Oh that's fun. Thank you and your so well obviously inspired by the material. The the stems the botanical As you're you know kind of your Muse when you probably it does sign. It's it's fair doesn't strike me as something. That's very recipe driven. No I do create recipes. You know if I have have a have an event or something create a recipe first centerpieces for instance or whatever. But if I'm if I had the opportunity to just create something on one off that's always the best. I love that Super Fun and I'm definitely driven by what is in the bucket in front of me. I think that's life for me. Working with local flowers is the best thing ever. Because you're just never going to get you know these perfect dabs. They're always going to have special movement Dan toward different kinds of coloring. That you would not normally see and so I find you. Know any kind of abnormality that or different kinds of shapes. That's something Eh for me is absolutely going to dictate the shape that I read in the end. Well your mentioning local flowers. And we've kind of alluded to the fact that you live in in a region where there are a lot of great power farmers. I remember seeing you at the Pacific Northwest Cut. Flower growers meet up a couple years ago. And I my first reaction was what is she doing now is is there going to be a ponderous and time farm. I mean were you. Are you growing at all. Or was that more for education I'm fascinated by growing. I'm not great at growing yes I have a property at a beautiful new property that I It's a blank canvas and I'm I'M GONNA attempt to make a garden in it Awesome really excited about it. So I'm learning a lot about soil right now. That's my big focus is learning about slow because that's obviously foundational And then I'm hoping to just get my soil to a really good spot this next year and then hopefully put some flowers in this spray. We'll not oh my goodness that is exciting. Well you're highly aware of The flowers in your region and we talked. I'd love to talk a little bit about your so sourcing practices I I also interested in The challenges that you faced when you do teach internationally because obviously you just fly in and you have have to make things happen long distance before you get there. There are two different completely different Game plans whether you're doing something in your own backyard in your hometown. Yeah Oh yeah totally. I mean that's part of what we're super excited about this next year. We're doing a lot more at home. And and part of what. I'm I'm really excited about out of the very you know besides just being near home that's GonNa be great but also we're going to be able to use local flowers like for almost every every single class we do And that for me is is really really wonderful I can call you know five or six people people that I live within twenty or thirty minutes of me and I have buckets the local flowers within a few hours. If I need them I either have to go pick them up or sometimes sometimes they drop them off but I mean I just I have everything I need really really close to me. And that's it's not. That isn't like a normal situation and So I feel really lucky for that but I you know when I'm traveling. It's a completely different thing. I have to plan way in advance and if I try to use is local flowers Honestly every single trip I've taken and tried to depend on local hours. It's been something that's happened where You know whether happened or season happened and the flowers that I was expecting weren't there weren't available and it's happened so many times times now that I've primarily have to depend on flowers that are that are not local and harder for me. It's just a hard you know. It's just a reality As you know and I do source ethically as much as I. Can you know do the research that can I work with companies that I know are ethically but I ask a lot of questions questions I you know if I'm going to try to go to places that I know I can get some local flowers like when I'm going to London for instance I know so When I go to flower market there growers there are there are wholesalers? They bring in lots and lots of local. So I asked that okay. Point me in the direction When I go to places that are a little bit more remote where we have to have stuff shipped in you know? Luckily there are companies that can work with that will ship mayflower sure Sure figured great. Yeah when I need it but it does. It does have a different aesthetic. It seems In some cases I'm sure you can make gorgeous stuff with all imported flowers. It's it's just a slightly different. Look than wouldn't you've got some wacky crooked stem Kim that you're grooving on. Yeah but that's really interesting and I think it's I'm impressed that you are Decision to open your classroom in Salem and perhaps have more Training and teaching in that region is because the availability. Well probably for a lot of reasons. Because you don't have to travel as much but but also the availability of resources that you can use for your workshops ups from local farms. This really cool. Well I just I feel like it's a responsibility thing and a lot of ways like me really leading into what I have here and being thankful for it a and saying hey tom experiencing experience the abundance what we have come experience. This like people shouldn't should be able to experience this you know and sometime in their lifetime because it's beautiful if they don't have it in their backyard problems come to a place where it exists you know and see it the And learn about it because I think the limit values a really great place to learn about About well the kinds of flowers that can grow together. I'm always surprised what I see right right and you know the thing that you mentioned them. We'll we'll valley. I have to say it's pretty temperate and in terms of the climate being temperate. So you probably can go almost to Thanksgiving and start up again. Maybe march or April. It's a little bit winters shorter. It seems yeah and not as a fierce. It's pretty mild usually watch now. This will be the worst winter ever on record or knock on wood. Yeah Yeah I mean we have similar climates here so you have winter pal. Your your Winter Palette though is more muted and more quiet and but I think you design beautiful items with that absolutely absolutely. Well I'm just excited to see what happens to your with your school. Can you talk a little bit about what you have coming up in the in the twenty twenty season. I mean we're almost choosers. Well three-quarters yeah Yeah I ah. We're announcing our dates this weekend. So I guess by the time this airs they'll still have just been announced And we are yeah. We're are releasing winter date soon and I am hoping that they sell out quickly. I'm that's always the hope isn't it but yeah We're GONNA efficiency doing after classes. It's here in the classroom Here in Salem and I'm not going to be doing any international retreats next year because I really want to focus on building building this classroom and making it making it everything I want it to be They don't already is what I want. But it's really you know. Having more people in Harris the more people we have in here at home I feel so yeah. That's our goal is less wonderful classroom and we'll have lots of masterclasses is that we're teaching out of this space Most of them will be one or two days so people can kind of you know take a class and then get back to their normal life. it won't be as much of a retreat setting. I don't know I think for me. Taking a break from the chiefs is important Just because I have to. I'm going to be focusing. Hang on like I said creating this atmosphere here in Salem and also I'm starting a book so I'm going to start writing that this year. Oh my gosh. That is so exciting. I can't believe that are you What can you tell us about it? Will it be designed book or that's a good question it well it's it's in cross us so It will be about color. I believe that going to be about color. Lovely and obviously flowers will be a part of it. Yeah I guess you will be in creating all the visuals for the book and design spy you will be featured in it you. Well that will have to put. Okay I tell you what Katie when the book comes out. We'll do another. We'll do another conversation. That sound bud and then you also are continuing you in your online presence with education there right. Yeah Yep it's really important to me to stay active in Instagram So I will continue. Did you do the live videos. But we've also launched a live video platform I'm kind of calling it the net flicks for Flores Because that's essentially how it's operating I'm Developing videos every month and releasing them on there and then People can access them anytime. I'm an growing library of the to`real and meditation they do far meditations at how to's and conversations and and I don't know it's really good resource Really proud of it and we're GONNA be working really really hard this next coming year to really grow grow that that presence Grow that community. Because it's it's pretty beautiful already any proud of it and people can access that at your website right. Yeah they can't and find out info on my website. Gosh this is really nice. Thanks for letting me take time to talk about that yet. I want to ask you just before we wrap up describe. What a flower meditation Asian is? I'm so intrigued. Son's yeah well you know I am not a person that can just sort of sit and try to think. Think about nothing I that has never worked for me So when or to think about to empty my mind like that's not something that works for me. So every because I'm an imitation practice I find my my mind wandering and not able to payment down but what I discovered with working with powers is that when I'm working with lower my mind is empty of everything else Usually usually the kind of intense thoughts intense feelings that I've been experiencing throughout the they kind of go away or go out as I'm processing to my to my hours or even the good feelings that I'm having I call is that when I'm designing with flowers more than any other time and so I was doing it. Just as a kind of a natural practice for myself and recognizing. This is my way way of meditating. This is how I do it and I always come out of those sessions just invigorated and with answers and feeling like I process this information really well and so then I started doing them without telling anybody what it was on instagram. Live and people responses does too. It was just huge. People loved that And they were really like. They were getting similar experiences that I was getting. That's wonderful. Yeah Yeah so then. I just decided that something. I'm GONNA continue do on it but it's nice when it could be somewhere permanent tooth so that the part of online line crosser that we've added. I think you've put a name or description to something that is so universal and that many people have as you said experience whether they're you're in nature or gardening or signing with flowers. I know I've had that same experience myself. When I worked on the slow flowers book it was literally the only time time every week that I was away from electronics and quiet by myself and I just got a little shiver listening to you? Because I know that feeling you're describing I and I'm so glad you're making it accessible and available to people who are seeking a way to kind of connect better with themselves and their feeling ailing so sounds beautiful. Yeah we we all do have access to it you know. I think we all know where that that space of creativity exists and when we can access that just for ourselves as flowers of the medium. It's especially good But I you know I think that for me. That's part part of what I feel like. I'm called to do is help people to be able to connect with himself and their creative voice and for me far meditation or that idea of creating and feed of prophecy. You know that that for me is the way that I get there I it differs for everybody but find that space is really. It's really powerful. It's really beautiful and definitely my passions interview people that IBS. I love it. Wow okay this has been such a fun conversation. Thank you so much for for making the time in your schedule and just bringing me up to speed on all the amazing racing things that you're involved in and of it a lot. Well we'll you. Oh I I'm so grateful to and I'm serious about when the book comes out. We'll have a part of this conversation. How does that? That'd be amazing I'd love it Thanks again Katie. This has been a beautiful moment in my day. And I'm so glad we can share the listeners. It's great to talk to you Catholic. Take your Thank you so much for joining my conversation today with Katy Davis of Ponderosa and time time my heart is filled with admiration and affection for Katy. And I'm delighted. You joined us be sure to check out the ponderosa classroom online. A new project that Katy created as a response to requests for affordably priced in depth online education monthly floral meditations to inspire your creativity recipes for arrangements Prince Information and online discussions on relevant business and creative topics access to music playlists access to full length. Instagram live video replays from Ponderosa and time high quality content accessible twenty four seven connection and community with like hearted. Flower France and more monthly memberships are just ninety ninety nine per month. Annual memberships are only ninety nine dollars. US per year. You can find more details in our links in today's show notes at Deborah for Printing Dot Com our next sponsored thank you goes to syndicate sales an American manufacturer of vases and accessories for the professional florist. Look for the American flag icon to find syndicates. USA Made Products and showing the Syndicate Stars Loyalty Program at Let's syndicates. SALES DOT COM. Now let's visit. Laura biggby fought of whites creek flower farm as part of our Tennessee spotlight in two two thousand and nineteen fifty states of slow for our series established on earth. Day In two thousand twelve whites creek. Flower farm is an artisanal permaculture. Flower our farm. Just outside of Nashville Tennessee whites creek is a stork rural area. And you'll hear Laura describe how beautiful it is there. Her flowers lovingly lovingly grown and organically managed. She grows many unusual varieties specializing in an English country. Garden Aesthetic Laura's bouquets are elegant and imbued with with a sense of whimsy and they are raised with profound respect for the ecosystem of which they are apart. Let's be Laura AM So excited today to be visiting the State of Tennessee as part of our fifty states of slow flowers series this this year. And I'm delighted to introduce Laura big be fought of whites creek flower farm. Hi Laura Hi Deborah. Thanks for jumping on the line with me. Happy to do it. Actually we've never met in person but we've been pen pals for awhile. Well give give me a snapshot of where you're located and a little bit about whites creek flower farm because you're more than a farm. You're also floral design studio right right. uh-huh we are in a little municipality In Davidson County Tennessee That is actually called Whites Creek. It's quite historic. It was settled back in early. Seventeen hundred And but we are within the Nashville city limits. So we're this wonderful little the rural pocket Just northwest of Nashville. In fact we're twenty minutes from downtown. That's great for you because that's probably a lot of your customers are yes they absolutely are. Yes so it's it's perfect. It's a wonderful location. What kind of acreage do have we personally own? Three and a half acres But I also grow. I'm very fortunate that my next door neighbor is a gardner. At our local Botanic Gardens teakwood gardens and she she has a big wonderful backfield about two acres that she also lets me grow on. She's just thrilled to have flowers. Grown back there and So far has not allowed me to pay her rent. It's it's been a wonderful setup and it's completely it's it's adjacent to my high tunnel so it's it's great that's crazy. I mean it's think that you have that much. Access to land in. Basically the shadows of an urban market is a dream. That's wonderful so give us a sense of what you're growing Laura And you mentioned a high tunnel so you're doing field grown as well as undercover yes. Yes in the high tunnel. I'm growing tweedy a- and and Snap Dragons Louisiana this renunciation CALOS have a row of Eucalyptus down the center. Thanks Dave dowling. That's what he recommends what I've done I'm going to grow some both perennial and Annual sweet peas in there as well so So that's all the high tunnel I look for unusual varieties of things to grow Because I'm kind of a plant NERD. Hudson Great Yeah I do I do a lot of Do a lot of unusual perennials and things and I start so far. I've I started everything from seed except the bulbs informs I bring those in but everything else I I start from because that's just such a magical process for me. What is your season? I know Tennessee. I mean it's technically the south. I don't know what your zone is. But it seems like you maybe have a longer growing period than people mighty my suspect. Yeah we're considered mid south here. We're not the deep south right we're mid south and We get crazy easy wild swings in temperature so we can be below zero in winter but we can be over a hundred in the summer so We're in zone seven. Kevin Sound seven a and Yeah we have for farmers who do row crops. We have three growing three. You can get three planting I and the season so it's pretty long starting with the like hell wars and tulips undercover and things like that February we we can start having things in February and then we also undercover. We can have Mums and Dallas and and even some flowers late into November. Wow so you're still. We're here talking on actually on Halloween. And you're still you're still running around harvesting it. Sounds he's like yes. We'll take absolutely I've got MOMS and Since sunflowers and not a whole lot else right now and I will have until tonight because my values are in the field so tonight we're supposed to get a heart brost so they will be. They will be gone tomorrow Well thanks for taking a pause to talk with me. I really wanted to get you into our our a rotation and next week is Tennessee so aubrey so who are you selling to. And how do you sell I. I'm really curious knowing your proximity to Nashville. That you're you're you're probably have a lot of different channels. Yes yes there are quite a few different channels. I started out selling to Selling to the public and farmers market and I just felt I'm a one woman show so I kind of felt like that. That was the best option for me. The and when I started my son was still An elementary school. So he's still pretty young and I didn't want to be on the road with a with a bucket route trying to go out several days a week because I wanted to be available to him so I did a Saturday morning market and that at at one point I was doing at once by myself. Oh my goodness yes other people's staffing the booth or how are you doing that now with me and my little son and my husband of course would help out in the boots you know he would help load and unload and shirt you know help with the tables and stuff like that but Yeah so that I WanNa say it got old really quick but I did love it because I'm an extrovert and I love love meeting the public and working with them but that quickly led to weddings because people would stop by my booth and they go. Oh this is just just what I want my wedding to look like. Do you do weddings. So I started doing wedding design and then that became so profitable that I finally had to let the markets go because because they were really keeping me from doing the weddings and the weddings. What were were what with really paying the bills? So the I've heard similar narratives tips from others in the Cell Towers Community who had that. That's stair step approach with initially at farmers markets and then that led to requests for a wedding design. Do you find the people. See your aesthetic and especially at the farmer's market. They don't really know what to call it. They think it's like a wildflower look which is clearly not but the air there's something that is capturing their Emotional connection to those flowers and I'm just wondering yeah look. How do you describe describe? Your aesthetic does a designer I typically call mine. I even have this verbiage on my website an an English country garden. Look that freshly gathered. It's like you just walked into an English country garden and although I grow an awful lot if natives but that that also really resonates with people especially here in Tennessee because a lot of A lot of our original Citizens since here Trace their ancestry back to England and the Scottish Isles show that really resonates with them to say English Country Garden freshly gathered third So I tend to use that although when people say wildflower They also they'll think about their grandmother's garden here. We are in the somewhat. Were World South and they think back to simpler time when their grandmothers had beautiful flowers and they could just walk out the back kitchen door and cut the flowers and put them on the table. And I think that's why it resonate so deeply with people instead of romance of the handpicked bouquet and fact that they know you. And you're the grower so love that Ryan so how. How long have you had whites creek flow or farming in what led to it? I'm just I don't think I know your story well Initially chilly I was a singer actor. Dancer both my husband and I were and lived in New York City. Just push pests us. The singer actor dancer isn't it considered a triple threat dance. He was the least of the three definitely a Singing actor Oh my goodness with forced to dance. Sometimes you performed in in In New York in the theater world I did did we. We neither one of us. We'd been there several years. And and we were both getting seen for Broadway shows but not getting booking them and I I have off Broadway away credits. And he sang at Carnegie Hall. And you know we we. We just weren't making that step up and we were in our mid thirties and We wanted to have a child so so we left New York and We had a child we moved to Orlando Afford and had a child and Are Wonderful Son Burton and then Various circumstances brought us to to Nashville. Okay and my hus-. My husband is now primarily filmmaker and animator. He still does some acting and voice work and puppet tearing he's he's really cool guy But my son had reached the age where you know. He was a lot more independent and I was like. Oh what am I going to do. It's now community theater didn't cut it for you now. You know I just know I. Yeah I was ready to move on and do something else. I was out planting roses and we had bought this property and we were just you know spending all this time mowing it. And what can we we do with this. Property is crazy and I my husband came out and I was planning roses and he said you look so happy. Why don't you do something like this? And I came inside and googled flower farmer. And that's how I found your book the fifty mile. Okay Oh my goodness wow history so that was probably around seven or eight years ago or let's see that book out two thousand twelve. Yeah Twenty Yeah Twenty Eleven two thousand twelve. Yeah right in there. Wow what a great story. I you know that. Thank you for sharing that. That's isn't that funny. What how did we ever learn anything before the Internet for one thing and look? What's happened for you? I mean I can't quite believe you're a one woman show with access to five acres curse of farming area. I mean that's intended. That's not five acres broken out. I have about a an acre broken out. Okay but the across five acres the large Garden but oh my gosh I had five acres. I just I'd never sleep. Yeah you'd have invaded Laura one of the things that I feel like since I met you and I I I remember reaching out to you when you first joined slow flowers just because I had a A an aunt in Nashville who wanted to send flowers to but of course it was January or something and it didn't work out but that's how we first connected connected personally and I remember thinking there weren't a lot of people doing what you're doing at the time in Nashville but look uh what the explosion of the local flower seen Including people who create yeah including people joining flowers in in Tennessee. I mean what what has happened. And and how. How have you witnessed? That sounds like people probably contact you when they google flower farms in Tennessee. And you pop up. Yeah they absolutely do. And I've really enjoyed. I wouldn't say mentoring but kind of meeting encouraging A lot of the young growers so any time some younger has contacted me and said Hey. Can I come look at your farm. Yup come on over because there. Is You know automate so many mistakes. You May as well learn well and under two floors contact to Erlich. How're you? How are you seeing being things? Change on the on the customer side with Flora's I don't do too much with floors I've had a few contact me But pretty pretty much all my flowers were going to. My design started just growing specifically for things that I like to design the design with So but I like talk about the collective here about our collection. Just share your news. Yeah this is exciting okay. Great we've got so many wonderful talented new growers and designers a ton of new designers. Oh and that was another revenue stream it is it while I didn't sell to Florida to brick and mortars I had a lot of designers who would come to me and it was really it. It was really a cool thing because we could share design tips. There was no like Rival rear like that. You know I mean if they got a Gig that was great because they could come by flowers. If I got a Gig you know. I'm sure they would like to have had it but you know they knew that I grew my own flowers. So it's been a really. It's a really nice community of designers and growers here so I did sell to To the designers contact me but now the demand has grown so much with all the designers and all the brick and mortar that Several growers in Middle Tennessee have banded together together and we formed a COUPLA collective while we can pool our resources and sell directly Both retail and wholesale sale. And so what what is it called. Tennessee cut flower collective. Okay Great. We'll we'll I'd like to try to get uh-huh more information on that to share with people but you currently have a website and a presence on social media and that okay good. We'll share those links than did this happen about. I remember you emailing emailing me about this when it first started within the last year right. Yeah well it I think it officially we're doing our grand opening Next next I in twenty twenty we had kind of a soft trial period. Soft opening This year and I must say it would not have happened. Happened at all if it hadn't been for misty moment from Twin rose farms down in Murfreesboro. Which is south of Nashville Right For several years Six or seven of US had kind of tried every year to get it going but all of us were pretty much one woman one woman show upright and missy and her husband are husband and wife team and in fact. There are three person team because Her brother-in-law is is also involved in the farm so she felt like she could pull away a little bit. She saw the necessity for having you know for selling collectively because we were buying hanging selling even from each other when we needed things for events and actually that was our first line of defense. We will grow to go to the growers. I I you know the local growers. If we didn't have it we go to the local growers and only as a very last resort. We contact a wholesaler but she saw that need and so she stepped away from the farm a little bit. Let her husband and brother-in-law kind of You know have more autonomy with the farm. I guess although she still the events coordinator and does all their business somehow she is an amazing wonder woman ask busy wheeling and yeah no no kidding so it sounds like you all are like that well I hope so for special so so we may think yeah. Can you introduce Michigan me by email and we're gonna try to do something to follow up on this story because I truly believe that. Excuse me that regional it kind of flower focused regional sourcing and marketing and selling is really blowing up. I mean I'm seeing it happened on the country and the The community aspect and the collaborative aspect is really appealing and Maybe you could talk a little bit about how you actually intend to. The cell is at a at a physical location or is it online. Or How's that working. We last year we tried to do an online online plus Physical location there were a lot of complications with that This year We're going to sell L.. We'll be selling for three days a week. Friday Saturday and Sunday at the downtown farmers market which is a fabulous facility that has kind of been underutilized. ICED Me By really the community at large. But it's it's a wonderful facility and they have a fantastic executive director Tasha Canard and she's wanted to get flowers there forever. I sold their one season. And then it was at the end of that season that I stopped and decided to go to you Strictly wedding event design But yes so. We're going to be there three days a week and I. I don't know everything that misty is working on right now but I do believe there will eventually be a An online component where Where designers can place in order does the it is in a way? It sounds like the the farmer's market is kind of this collective may because they have a ample amount of space or using their how. How is that all going to work Eventually we're going to be able to have our own like a a florist store the storefront kind of Cooler right in that location. Yeah we're we're looking at having having one of those there To store just on a weekly basis you know just when people bring things in there will also be a lot of mixed bouquets out to tell the public So those will. I'm not go in the cooler so I think pretty much. Just the the orders for designers will go in the cooler and the Knicks bouquets will be out fortunately It is undercover. They have these wonderful market sheds and there has also been some discussion of us being in the market house which is air conditioned like mcadoo idea. Yeah Yeah especially given the climate issues in Tennessee. Yeah well that can't we can't sell At at market like a syringe just will completely once it hits the hits the outdoor air. You bring it back inside and it fluffs up again so we'll it is key. Yeah and you have that experience base base in probably working in the wedding industry. That's probably why you're busier in the spring and fall with weddings rather other than summer right. Oh absolutely yeah congratulations. It's very exciting. And it's all get whatever links you have now so people people can follow at least on social media and Watch what's happening with the launch of this and then we'll circle back and do another episode to learn more but I'm I'm just. I'm just appreciative of the snapshot of Tennessee. I need to come visit you. We keep talking about it and we'll figure it out maybe in twenty twenty but I I'm murder have you okay Laura. We'll also Love to share photos of you and your flowers and what's going on at whites creek flower farm in today's show shown us or an initial nuts for today's episode so we'll make sure people can find that at reprinting dot com right all right. Thanks so much okay. Thank you You'll want to check out photos. Laura has shared and find links to whites creek flower farms social places in today's patients at Deborah Printing Dot Com. Thank you so much for joining me today. The slow flowers podcast has been downloaded more than five hundred thirty seven thousand times despite listeners. Like you thank you for listening commenting and sharing. It means so much in fact for the month of October which we just wrapped up more than thirteen thousand. This is seven hundred episodes of the sloth. podcast were downloaded by listeners. And that's an all time record. As our movement gains more supporters and more passionate participants who believe in the importance of the American cut flower industry. The momentum is contagious. I know you feel it too. I value your support and invite you to show your thanks with a donation to support my ongoing advocacy education and outreach activities you can find the donate button in the column to the right at Deborah Printing Dot Com our final sponsored this week goes to Arctic Alaska Panties a cooperative of family farms in the heart of Alaska working together to to grow

Katie Salem Oregon instagram Katy Davis Oregon Laura biggby Nashville Whites Creek Tennessee US England Arta Floral Design Ponderosa Tom Willamette valley irby Florida Ponderosa Workshop Whites Creek Tennessee Portland farmers Web Farmers Web
The Escape

Happy Face

40:13 min | 3 months ago

The Escape

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The state penitentiaries as Americans, we have taught ourselves that freedom is the most important thing in the world. We want our freedom. We. Don't WanNa be in prison or a state hospital. So it's not surprising that someone would want to escape. It doesn't do much. Other than that to her mystique. Had the ability to over offense that had lots of wire on top. And basically be able to do that. Stephen. Gorham. G. O. R.. H. Am. I'm an attorney in Salem I've been an attorney since nineteen, seventy five. I went to Cornell University as an Undergrad, and then there's a graduate I went to as a loss to school I went to Atlanta University in Salem Oregon. where I have been practicing since nineteen, seventy five. Steve Represented Diane downs as her post conviction attorney post conviction attorneys represent a client, the verdict, and we'll typically assist a guilty party and making the case that they were not adequately represented by their council and the courtroom. They try to help them appeal the verdict or provide other post conviction relief my first steph in. Refugees somebody at the time in the post conviction was to go visit him. So I'm. Sure Who is in? Oregon Correctional. Center here in. Salem it's happens to be about a mile from my office on State Street. The want women's prison was built right next to the Oregon State penitentiary right outside the wall. The Oregon State Penitentiary was built in the eighteen hundreds sometime it's walled prison and They goes to women's prison right outside the wall and the women's prison was a one story. Building with a fence around it they had a small yard that was outside the building. you could see the yards from state street. because it's right off of State Street and it was surrounded by tall. Chain link fence with barbed wire on the top. But that's not where our story in this episode really begins. Shortly, after Steve took on Diana's a client, she escaped from prison. So also in one, thousand, nine, hundred, thousand. That's one Diane Estate. She jumped over the fence. She knew some people. she had. Other inmates that the Oregon State Women's Correctional Center. New People in Salem? Some of whom with. A couple of blocks from the women's prison. So those are warehouses that were rental houses on State Street. And when Diane escape she got picked up by a couple. Because she was either hitchhiking I'm not sure why they let her out. But they didn't take very far. Out. Eric Mason was working as a reporter in Oregon at the time of Dan's escape. He traveled with a photographer around the area to find potential places Diane could have escaped to hoping to be among the first to figure out her whereabouts. She's at Oregon Women's Correctional Facility and doing. The rest of her life there. and. You know it's not the most high security Max. Facility. In the world there, there's a couple of chain link fences and. Today it's closed but at the time. You know it was where All kinds of women involved in strange crimes were being held, and so she's been there a while and I think life is just. Grinding on for Diane. And just down the street I mean literally blocks. From the Women's correctional for center are two guys that are semi homeless working poor who are there? and. Crazy. As it is once again, my path crosses these people as. Devoting and donating some time down at the Union Gospel Mission to make dinner and do some other things there for them and meet shoe guys. Wayne in Bob and you know I struck a conversation at the dinner hour with them and they're two very interesting guys. And so they begin to tell me about their life. And the reason I went to go visit their house was because there were sources of information about how the world of drugs worked in this town. Potentially well, I saw them as. People who needed help and obviously they needed help from the Union Gospel mission. But they also wanted to tell me stories and they knew I was a reporter. and. So got to them in the months leading up to her escape. So when When they escape happens and she goes over the wire. Let's like, wow, she's got some guts to go straight over the fence how? I'm thinking you know fourteen eighteen feet her so. She goes up over the top of it and as out and gone. And Day goes by and two days goes by and I'm thinking wow, she might have actually. Escaped and got away with it and so every day the assignment was. Be the first to find Diane and get it on TV. If you can't make sure you get her arrested being walked in. and. So we were driving everywhere myself and the photographer I. Remember this we were thinking okay. She could be out in farm country she could be living down by the Willamette river she could be trying to find the next guy already. And so we were we were trying to check all the boxes of things we've done and I said to the photographer. You wrote around each day with a photographer. I said wouldn't it be weird? If she ended up at Wayne's house along the river. Just a few blocks. From the Women's Correctional Center, the prison and darn it that's which she was. Eric offered to show me the area firsthand. So we got in this car and toured the area near the prison where Diane Flood. So then there's no preconceived mill creek. And then on the other side of Mill Creek. Is the women's facility and you can see. That fence there. Yeah. SEATTLE SARP wire fence. That's pretty intense. And so at the time. It was not as well fortified as it is now. And Diane just basically climbed it hopped over kept going. I was surprised at how the prison was like a modern day castle with a riverboat. Dares. Big Open. Brush on three sides. Of the place in you'd expect. You would have thought. that. If someone wanted to get out of town fast head towards. The railroad tracks and into. A box car or anything getting out of town and and take it off. But that's not what was going to happen here. And the state police officers were they brought her in. Who's right over here? And That's where. I I saw. Five and Wayne. Being led away. Almost as if. You know they were on the same perp. Walk as. Diane downs, but they were all together right here. I wanted to know what Bob and Wayne were like these two men who harbor Diane after her escape Bob was you know studious looking and you know had glasses and kind of look like A. Computer. Geek. And Wayne was a fairly decent looking individual and look like he could be a landscaper you know in southern California. And they really did how little odd jobs every day that they would do but they never really made enough money to have a nice place. So they had this tiny little hovel. Along Mill Creek, and then go down and have dinner at the Union Gospel Mission, and that was their life. So a have a notorious convicted. Show, up in the middle of the night at their house, you know it was quite a surprise but you know they certainly weren't going to throw her out either. I think what was later determined was that she used a creek. Mill Creek. To be able to. Confound the dogs. and. She knew enough about tracking that she went down that creek and so I think one of the first things she did is she got rid of her clothes. and. I think left them in the water. I'm not sure how what level of nakedness data she was but when she showed up at Bob in Wayne's place she was cold. Didn't have close or most of them and just needed to get warm in a place to stay and I believe that I'm GonNa have to go back to check the see. This is true. that. She had some correspondence. With, people outside the prison was a pen pal and I'm not sure how that worked into it but they finally looked at our tablet and begin to figure out who she'd been talking with, and so that's what helped them. figure out part of beato wonder plans where Outta she was getting out and whatnot. Wayne that he L. Repair. Yes and so I remember, Wayne. Almost thinking and. Saying to the effect of. I couldn't believe my good fortune. You know here I am a marginally employed, but mostly homeless man in Salem Oregon and. The. Woman of my dreams comes walking through the door almost half naked. What's it like to drive the Volvo xc ninety plug in hybrid. The thrill of a four hundred horsepower t eight twin engine. The, joy. Of Impromptu. Road trips. And the serenity. Of Electric power in pure ego mode. visit at DM Vivo retailer today to experience the xc ninety recharge plug in hybrid for yourself. A family of five brutally killed in their sleep in the companion podcast HBO maxes the murders at White House farm. You'll hear from those involved in the making of the series and the real life events on which the drama is based stream the murders at White House farm now on Hbo Max and Subscribe, and listened to the murders at white. House, farm the podcast on the iheartradio APP HBO Max Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. From what I read with Wayne as unlike Wayne and Diane had a relationship Diana's sleeping with. Wayne. So I don't think he would easily give her up at that was the case. It's true I think. Wayne was. The type of guy who was street smart. And really didn't. likes niches or people that turned other people in. So yeah I would imagine he kept things pretty quiet. While I really can't believe is that. Given. The search that was done. That for those days following the escape she stayed right where she was and no one founder. That's that's the part. That's amazing. that she was able to basically hide right here. Plant site. I think it's okay. So here's. Where we go over the creek, you can see it's very vegetated down there and someone just walking up that creek would have. Tried to find someone's back. Porch. which she did. So this neighborhood is cute. It looks like it's an older neighborhood will bungalows to actually looks very different than what I thought. It would look like in my head because these houses are just adorable like painted little ladies right and then the ones they're right on the creek. The some of our. Chests like an outbuilding to another house. Okay I see here the creek to some of these see this little building hair it looks like an outhouse hatch to this house is just a little outbuilding. Shed, and that's what those two it was very much like a shed. And you can see the water. You know someone could just. SORTA swim along this creek. and. They're sent. You couldn't follow that trail and I think that's I think that's what she was able to. After she was captured Diane's brother James was one of the only people close to who who's able to speak to her about this scape I wish she'd call me. That's what I said at the time. Actually I remember I remember I was working. as working at a place in San Joaquin Valley. California you know I wanted to take her to Canada Take Mexico or just take her away from here and tour she'd be safe and but yeah. Obviously what is you think when she was found? I've had conversations about this I thought it's not surprising. She was caught I. Guess you know she's looking for affection she's looking for love you know she's just looking to be held and everything's going to be. Okay. You. Know and I guess maybe that's why I wanted her to call me. So I could tell that will your conversations about about that time that she escaped She scaled over the walls and took off. And she was going to go there and she said. Oh my God. What do I know? You know what? I mean best laid plans this she get over and it's like. Oh. Sharp. Where am I gonNa go and I mean even if you go to the house, you have in mind to go to like what's your next per next plan was to find the person that did this and every time she said to herself is like How do you do that? You know what I mean and so. She got this person's house and was checking up with this guy and. Never got the part of finding the person that did this. All she also had tons of authorities looking for her I don't. You get over the fence on. It's like, Oh, my goodness. Gracious. What do you do? Bad men sixteen foot tall was circular razor wire on the top of there's two of them. Did she do? She through through some over the top. And just climbed over. Literally. She just climbed to sixteen foot fences with circular. Not Barb wire, but razor wire on top of them. Once caught Diane was transferred to another prison under the interstate compact likely to prevent the Oregon Women's penitentiary from receiving any additional public attention that arose from her presence there. They sent their New Jersey after her escape, which is semi surprising in the it's not so surprising that they sent her out of town because at the time our women's prison was you know? Not. The most secure. And the interstate compact is basically like. Baseball trading or football trading you know you traded inmate for another inmate. And that's pretty. What is That that knew that there was a lot of rejections for who house Diane downs after this scape and that New Jersey said, we will take Diane if we can extend you to, and May, when we have the need when the neater. Yeah you know and I'm I'm relatively sure they they moved Diane. To get her out of the town so that the publicity wasn't always there. And again originally because she had escaped and a Lotta Times they they do the prisoner swaps or the interstate compact to try to get. A new environment for the night. Where they will you know maybe under different circumstances and different prison a state they will you know get better. Whatever that means on. Sure. No one wants to take diane because of the publicity and then you know she tried to escape that. Krizan. I didn't know that. Oh. Yeah you didn't know she tried to escape new. Jersey. No. While she was in New Jersey, she got a had a personal relationship with a man who was a helicopter pilot. WHO was going to steal a helicopter. And the New Jersey and escape with Diana again. And he gave that. Conspiracy up I'm not going to get this right. You know a couple of months before it was supposed to go always a practice. Because, of something that happens he didn't get caught he confessed. And turn himself in and he may have been from Seattle on. A lot of these details. Aren't they are but. I know I went to see her in the Jersey prison after she was there. before this escape attempt because I was visiting my family and it was just easy for me to do to visit her. and I wanted to visit her just because you know. Mainly to see whether a New Jersey prison we'll talk and then when this escape attempt happened. It was just weird. You know and that's when she got sent to the California prison. Which is as I understand it and I don't know that this is true. The worst women's prison in the world or at least in the United States. Ought to do some research on that I, know that I was talking to the infamous. Bo Derek. and. She's housed with Diane not they're not like cellmates or anything, but they actually know each other not prison which is interesting to me but how you know different inmates are connected. Yeah as I said, I went through some of these records. on ocean and some of the things that she was claiming. Again. I didn't go and say any of the details, but she's claiming you know. She was you know made of hers and This Folk Era Lady. You know I think training also, it's a conspiracy theories. Who she's been sold with. Initially Steve Reserved his opinions on Diane's guilt going solely off the court's verdict his principles as an attorney prevented him from taking certain actions of the client directly admitted guilt to him well, her daughter. She was the perpetrator. Always, say at that time as always pushy here stranger. I believe I'm an ethical attorney. and. and. That's a cool attorney can't have his client on the understand and lot. So if your client tells you that they're guilty. You can't put them on the stand and. Say Not guilty. And when I say guilty and not guilty I'm talking about the individual faster so they can. Write. A defendant has the absolute right to take the stand and defend themselves in a criminal case. So if you get somebody who tells you Just use an example filming if somebody tells you. Yeah. Shot this person. They can't get on stand and say I didn't shoot the person. Say you get on the stand and say I didn't shoot the person and they've already told you when you believe that they did shoot the person. While they have the absolute right to get on the stand, you can ask them only one question. Question question is what happens. You can't ask them any other questions. And you have to be careful how you present the case other than that. So. Knowing that from the beginning of my career and knowing that I was. An ethical person One of the things I try not to do when I first started to represent somebody you say. Are you guilty? A criminal defense attorneys obligations are. Ninety, nine percent to the clients. That one percents is to the court. that. You can't let your client lie to the court. So. I, basically tell them that upfront. So they know the ground rules what they should be telling me what they shouldn't they tell argument. You represented both Diane back as mom and and then my dad what stands out to you about their personalities are they similar or they would you say to both narcissists what would be your assessment of the two? Well I would say Diane, was a narcissist and I think Chad was to. You know it's hard to. Your Dad owned up to the crime scene. which took a lot of guts. I'll say it. This way fan is guilty which. In all likelihood she is she never owned up to the crime. Hey there it's mango Hosa part-time Genius Co Founder Mental Floss and like many of you one of the twenty one million people that have picked up gardening in the past six months. That's why I'm hosting the brand new podcast humans growing stopped brought to you by Iheartmedia and your friends at Miracle Grow. Join me on a green adventure as we talk with experts, friends and surprise guest and here gardening means to them listen to humans growing stuff on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Food is and always has been political. That wasn't clear before the events of two thousand, twenty five revealed this truth in a spectacular fashion. So this season were diving deeper learning about the nomadic roots of the people and the cultural significance of Matt Dining. We traveled to Palestine to taste the milky distant Iraq. And then to La Palma in the canary islands to drink local wine from a woman winemaker while considering the industry's male dominance or questioning the morality of meet. The politics of language and why we don't say food desert but rather food apartheid. This season, we're bringing you into the policies that influence and shape our food system. Along the way. Drinking coffee with you while discussing it's African origin. From the makers of Whitestone media, its point of origin season three I'm inviting you to travel with me your host Steven Satterfield for another tour of the world of food worldwide. Listen to point of origin on the iheartradio APP, apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. The main focus of Steve's post conviction relief was the forensic evidence presented at trial Kristie testimony was difficult to disprove, but Steve knew that blood splatter evidence was controversial. Well, again, you look at the case and it was a big case. So there's a Lotta paperwork. First of all you have to, you know read the transcripts of the trial to understand how she got convicted. And the facts that led to her conviction and what? Do you remember what does worth that led to her conviction or think testifying that she did it. Was the biggest. act. If I remember correctly and then. There was forensic evidence that tried to just prove her theory is the case. And one of the biggest parts of that. Was where she said everybody was situated at the time of the crime. inter out of the car and plus bag or evidence concerning that which came minutes trial but again as I said. Earlier one of the main things you look at is Ineffective Assistance of console meeting. Did the original attorney to rights and what does he do wrong? What would you say? That this would be Jim Dagger. What would you say he did right and what would you say he did wrong. Well I remember it will fade into the blood splatter and now I, remember at least somewhat concentrating on the blood splatter that he didn't do that right I mean over the years there's been some controversy over blood splatter forensic people prosecuting quote, unquote scientists. Elise. You can tell a lot about what goes on from blood splatter. Some people don't believe it's very scientific at all but clearly, the state tries to prove that I am was not telling the truth. Based on where the blood. SPLATTER was and how is it existed in and around the car? Our case was to try to show that. And Do a very good job and could holes and the spat or testimony of the experts in the case. Love. Her sentence. The Nile Got Life. With minimum I think fifty years. So she's contested a lot of different things and one of the big issues that were contested I believe is that the gun was never found. Leave I have this feeling that. Either Diane, said that a gun was thrown in a river. Or Somehow? Gun got in the river. But. I believe he's the. Police searched the river. But. I personally believe comes in the river I. I'm not sure I can tell you why I believe that but I think that's where it is. came the letter after her conviction Diane wrote a letter to her defense attorney Jim Jagger and it Diane changes her story about the night of the shooting. He's representing her the headed his file in at some point. The state asked him for this ladder. and. He had to turn it over to the state. And this was the importance of this letter to me. It may be not important to anybody else but to me. If you remember after the children were shot and they were on the. Road next to the Mackenzie highway. She's driving to the hospital in Springfield. Very. Slowly, and at the trial someone who followed her I, think a man, maybe a pickup truck. was following her. Said Jewish dramas person didn't know her from Adam this person me very slowly. Sums going on now. So they use the state argued I think that? She was driving very slowly to the hospital so the children would die. Yeah I can't remember how she explained it. probably, she just didn't know where she was or whatever. The trauma the. This wider basically says that somebody in the pickup truck was fouling her on the road. This is before the killing. He passed her. Then he slowed down. She passed him I mean not be right about that part. and. Then she stopped because she was interested in this guy. Danger of the night to stop per se ages look. I think I knew about this letter. But. If I didn't know about the weather that I think. Her changing her story on this is important in my mind because it really describes. The swo- driving before the cry. And that she was interested in just. Picking up this guy who is in this pickup truck. And she basically. Since then after she stopped in. Met. This guy. That he became pushy hit stranger and and he's the one who shop because. A letter starts out with an almost confessional tone. It begins November Seventeenth Nineteen eighty-four Salem Oregon Dear Jim I'm not really sure how to start this letter, but I guess the best way to make an apology is to say I'm sorry now you're probably wondering what this is all about and when you're through reading, you'll probably drop this letter and say Damn Diane like you have so many times before your blood pressure will go up and I'm sorry about that too I'm sorry about a lot of things really alley you will forgive me for not being. Totally honest with you is just so hard for me to put myself in someone else's hands. I find it hard to fully trust anyone not to hurt me I needed to control myself and the situation and I've been that way for a few years and has been a hard lesson to learn I can't guarantee all be cured forever. But I know now that I should have placed his whole problem in your hands and let you deal with it but I was afraid silly maybe I was afraid you would lose respect for me and well, let me explain. The letter goes on to retail. Diane's of what took place the night of the shooting she states the shaggy hair stranger was actually a man who was driving behind her on the road according to her he passed her and slowed down was kind of a flirtatious dance between the two cars and she eventually pulled over she claims the man wanted we'd and when she opened the trunk, He took out the case containing Steve's gun. After making advances on Diane, he proceeded to shoot her and her children one by one before fleeing. Really, interesting read letter. What's really interesting to me. Well I mean to a criminal defense attorney. It's a damning. And Who knows what else she had told Jim Jagger and He obviously did his best in representing. I think someplace in the letter she said, she told him several stories or something like that. would. have been hard for him. Though Steve Tried to remain ethical attorney and go on the basis of Diane's proclamation of innocence the letter finally convinced him of her guilt, the change in her story from what she claimed multiple times and trial and to the press showed Steve Diane. Most likely wasn't telling the truth and potentially never had he doesn't believe she'll do well at her future parole hearings. No, and I don't believe she will have a chance I wa again, the Parole Board over the years has been very conservative. I would say the Parole Board has ever been liberal in the state of Oregon so they do look at. The Parole Board should be looking at the person. The individual what you should be looking at is, of course, the crime, the effect of the crime especially these days on the victims and you know it used to be the victims really didn't much matter and then we went through A. A phase that still exist victim's rights and Carter that is the parole board wants you to come clean. If they believe that you're guilty of the crimes they want you to say you're guilty of the crime. And show remorse for your guilt. So the fact that I N. Has Yet to. Show. Much remorse or so show that she is guilty. It's GonNa be hard for her to get out on parole. by the pool for and frankly especially crimes that have. Such publicity. Conservative, them I don't believe that show ever get out on parole. Diane downs was denied parole in two, thousand eight and again in two thousand ten Dan's Parole Board hearing took place just recently September twenty third she was denied parole. On the next episode Michelle Presents Becky with the conclusion of efforts to trace becky's paternity and identify her biological father. Also coming in a few days a bonus episode, the Bizarre Letter Diane downs. Route. To Jim Jagger read in its entirety although we were unable to percent the entire letter in this episode due to time constraints we feel that you the listener should hear this bizarre retelling of the night of the crime in Diane's own words. Who could be responsible for murdering a family of five in the most horrific way imaginable. That's what occurred when quiet night in Essex England in nineteen eighty five when police ruled that twenty-eight-year-old chillicothe fell murdered her parents and six year old twin boys before killing herself. As. Evidence continued to surface however the truth revealed something even more sinister I'm Lauren Bri. Pacheco. Join me as we go behind the crime scenes of the new HBO Max. Series the murders at White House farm as well as the infamous real life events that inspired it. We'll talk to the people involved with the series and the case itself and find out why suspicion started to shift from. Sheila to someone else and reflect on the fallout for all involved. Stream the murders at White House farm now on HBO Max and subscribe and listened to the murders at White House farm the podcast on the iheartradio APP HBO, Max Apple, podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up? This is Adam Devine Anders home, Blake Anderson, Carl Richard, and you might recognize these suites sultry voices from the hit television program workaholics. And we were sitting around and we were bored in quarantine where always on these calls and we thought, Hey, you know what? This important totally these are important conversations were having and the world needs to hear it. So please do yourself a favor and listen to this is important on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Steve Diane Diane downs attorney Salem Oregon Wayne Oregon California Union Gospel Mission HBO Bob Diana Diane Estate Mill Creek Diane Flood Seattle Oregon State Penitentiary White House Eric Mason Stephen
A lot of us are in a transitional place.

Misfit Stars

1:09:15 hr | 1 year ago

A lot of us are in a transitional place.

"Welcome to the MISFIT STARS PODCASTS Tour edition time. I'm standing curtis and on Jamie Hill Hi everyone one hi Shannon. Hello Wow hey hey guess what happened just about fifteen minutes ago well. I know they were driving in this car right now about to report our podcast for this week. I guess what listeners haven't we cross the Columbia River which means that we crossed back into the state of Washington for the first time in months and where we live on our who's bed. We're going to sleep in tonight. Our own bed our own bed. Oh my gosh she's bed. We're going to sleep in a weird question Hey Man when you're when you're a real easy. Who's better you in each night hard to know risque but just seventy. It's not elect it's very exciting to be just so very close to our own house. We're still in addition though because tourist done over even though we're staying the night tonight in our own bed in her own house we still have a a handful of more shows to do this week and through next weekend and then sort of a couple of outliers in a week or so after that but we are we are so excited back in the state of Washington Yeah. It's wonderful and we love it here here. We haven't seen it in two and a half months. I know and it's beautiful and it just it feels like home which is pretty awesome because it is home. That's fortunate hey so Do you want to welcome our new listener. Oh yeah you know what thank you for that open door Shannon. I would love to walk through it. Yes inside this welcoming room. Welcome all of you new listeners right nine. If you are one of the people who picked up one of our glossy misfit stars postcards this week on our pop up store table. Thank you for that and thanks for tuning in super cool and to a new supporting members. Oh my gosh. Thanks you all new supporting and we're very grateful for you in case you're listening to this and you're like what's a supporting member. KNBR. Here's the deal. This podcast is largely free. Listen to you just go to apple podcast. You'RE GONNA stitcher you go to our website. Whatever and you listen to it. and we want that but if you want to use it as an excuse to support what we're doing and also literally to support the podcast. This is a listener supported podcast so if you want to self select into that rarified group group of special people special cast your lot in with our our stars we do your are stars. Is that a little corny hell. Yes it is yeah. Is it very sincere and earnest. Hell yes that too. Is this the place for that. Hell yes always present as you probably have picked up on. I'm usually the more sarcastic one Shannon's usually the more honest one but I let her ernest gravitational force pull me toward her side on this kind of stuff because that's important from Shannon there are times when earnestness is not not just okay but actually the appropriate course of action and I really feel like with are supporting members. This is one of those times because we take seriously that you take us seriously yes and you know what we do new. Ernest as health stuff sometimes in his podcast and in the private facebook group that Oh by the way you get access to if you become a supporting member if when rights they were chanting so so we would love it. If you want to become part of our stars the way that you do that is it's very easy you go to misfit stars dot COM mm slash join and you just follow the instructions you find there you pick the level of support that works best for you five hundred twenty a month people and they're like visit sticker pack you on a guest. She can get that t shirt level. You can choose that with the basic levels five bucks a month and and you will get all of our exclusive exclusive members only content from time to time discovers only stuff on youtube but there's nothing else to seven with. Eh went with no. It's okay also will be invited to join our private facebook group online and you can get to know smother stars and they're pretty great. We we have the just the most supportive conversations in there. It's really seemed to want to use that area as a force for good and I'm here for here for that too and Shannon by the way is wearing her misfit stars T. Shirt today I am because we're the ones who made these t shirts. We made each of ourselves one. It's a great it's good shirts and you know what now that you've worn for like ten months or so and launder repeatedly you'd like it really holds up. Well ages well. It's a good Eric really ties. I'll just throw that out there again. I WanNa get yourself a teacher. It's a level you can do that so thank you those of you who decided to join us as as members and later in this episode. We're going to talk about the absolutely incredible day we had yesterday in Salem Oregon where we got to do do a concert for a center for housed youth. Yeah the center serves mainly a youth population ages eighteen to twenty five. I took we were. We're GONNA talk all about this second half episode it was I mean this sounds kind of over the top in that what I'm about to say here but it in in a lot of ways my experience there yesterday kind of felt like a kind of a life changing day in some ways like a really shifted my perspective in some really deep and in profound ways and so it was an eye opener. We're going to talk about that in the second half of today's episode so stay tuned for that but other than that. Where did tour tickets this week. Jamie well the first thing we did since we last spoke with our listeners as we celebrated your mom's birthday we did celebrate. We were in northern California on on my mom's birthday lovely her with her and her boyfriend friends great it was wonderful. It was really really nice evening. It was and then we drove just an absolutely beautiful drive day from northern California up to the Boise area and we had a show in Eagle Idaho. We shirted which is not exactly a suburb because it was one. I found that out there right. It's an older neighborhoods for the area from Lake was incorporated. It's been around forever but I think it was incorporated. As a town like in the seventies seventies seventies western town vibe it's cute as hell up in the hills and we've been going there for a number of years now to do house concert with our friends. Nicole and Mike and and so the Nicola Mike we were indoors this year because we were you know getting close to fall and the weather had definitely turned and so we were inside today day today at that show but you don't realize this when you're like in California but the rest of the world switches over to fall yeah you're kind of late summertime anywhere roles like Oh. It's chilly and I can wear socks but Nicole and Mike their house holds the distinction of US performing. Maybe one of our hottest concerts ever the the first time we ever did a show at their house one hundred twelve degrees outside and I was sitting in the sun and it's a miracle. I didn't die the miracle. We all didn't die listening to her. I know it was really really hot but yes we've been doing shows with our with our friends day for a number of years now and and it's one of those situations where I feel so so grateful with year after year getting to know these people better in deeper way just wonderful feeling closer and closer to them as they continue to invite us into their lives and into the into their community it's really remarkable and privilege thing to be wonderful. you know they're just they're neat couple. They've got two wonderful kids. it's just a really cool situation. getting to know getting to know. Both of them has been just such a joy. Nicole is sort of more forward in that way and might play cards a little closer to the best yeah and sort of you know unpeeled his layers and sort of getting in like he's got this warm tenderhearted share and it's just been such a privilege against the no a side of him he said the most touching thing to me. I always take the hosts right before. Guests show up just to a private place. It's prep on what the show is going to look like that year. Refresh them on on what day of show host duties are and in that little private time. Mike said I just said thank you so much for continuing to invite us back is really special and Mike was was the one who said you know. I don't think it would feel like summer. If you guys weren't here which only my gosh you know what I mean. It's it's just such a profound thing to me. We met met these people in someone else's backyard because we travel around doing music and now like these are dear people in our lives and I feel that way about them to we didn't see them. I I would be disappointed totally. It's just really nifty magical. I love being able to grow with people in that way and getting to know your families Their daughter is remarkable like I'm sure kids are great but their daughters older and we've just gotten to know her little personality over the last number of years she so wonderful. I'm sure that the the Sun will get to know in that way to yeah just a little boy yeah for sure like toddler age just sort of and so yes this year their daughter there there hung around quite a lot. She was there for soundcheck. Yes she's she's been sort of like. They have in their basement which she's been playing. She's never had lessons ah but she we could hear her playing down from downstairs in the basement like playing left hand and right hand at the same time you know versions of Mary had a little lamb and a couple of more sick. Song Doa dear dear yeah I also taking out to the ball game yeah and so she's not had lessons but she's figuring out the piano and clearly has an intuitive sense of with pianos all about also deer and take me out to the ball game are not simple songs harmonica speaking to intuit those melodies. You have to have an intuitive understanding of the idea that there are internal modulations like she doesn't have language for that but those aren't necessarily simple melodies to pick out. It's not like they're all just on the white keys. Amu- and she has the rhythm and she she has all of this figured out. She's eight by the way she's not like. An old like fifteen year olds like she's a young human being and she has been figuring this out for pretty needs. She's been teaching herself apparently notation but like she doesn't know what her own notation yeah yeah. I know figuring out system for writing down how to play on the piano. We most people who learn music. Have it's notes and you know it. She's figured out her own. System is so amazing we had. She asked if she could play my piano and so after soundcheck we had her up on the bench and she was just just playing notes. She wasn't playing a song of any kind she was just kind of playing a melody with her right hand and some other notes complimentary mentoring notes with her left hand and it was musical and it was like it was it was pretty neat to to share that moment with her and I was telling Nicole after the show a ways after the show like you know. I just telling her like she's got you know she's got some some intuition around piano. She's a smart girl and and and Nicole shared with me some stuff. It was really just really cool she. She was saying that it's really important for her. She she recognizes that she has an old soul. She's raising and also she. She was sharing with me. What a what a big value it is of hers as as a mom to give her daughter experiences where she sees strong women doing work. That's meaningful to give her daughter the notion to instill in her daughter the idea that women are strong and can do whatever they want to do in the world and she she shared with other experiences that she's given her daughter just giving her exposure to different women doing doing you you know bold stuff in the world with their lives and I was just like Oh man like this is how cool but one of the most important jobs on the planet is the job that are for. Nicole is is doing his mom of this little girl. I'm raising a daughter. That's you know we'll be able to to see what's possible for herself. As as citizen of this world and go out there and you know she's going to save us all to approach parenting a daughter as a mom with that sort of intense analogy is so powerful to me you know not just the idea that you can do anything but that specifically as a woman you can do anything and I am going to show you examples of women doing stuff in the world in strong and powerful ways and what an honor by the way for her to include you in that I've a high fell nearly honored to be included in that group. Gosh I sure that it was it was an interesting parallel for me that night between that conversation in one other conversation I had with a guest at the show this woman who I think she's probably in her sixties. I would guess I would I if I had to. You take a guess at her age She's she was it was her first time seeing one of our shows and talked with her for a good long while L. after the show and she was sharing with me a little bit about career transition that she's in right now. She's you know she. She told me she was retired. Tired and then I probed a little bit more about that and it turns out that her last job ended just like a month or so ago and so she's technically retired but looking for the next thing uh-huh and kind of unsure what that's going to be and then she sort of like shared with me how she's thinking that maybe the first time in her life or her career as a working woman woman. She's worked your whole life. The maybe for the first time she's able to look for something to spend her time. Doing that is meaningful and feels like is something of purpose for her but that she that she has spent a lot of her life and her career working career doing jobs that she quote unquote thought she should she was supposed to do yeah rather than sort of being purpose driven or passion driven short and she also she was in our conversation. She also shared with me. about how she has a step daughter who's in her mid twenty s and she was sharing with me how much she admired her stepdaughter for being a young woman who does seem to be making decisions about her career and her life based on on on look ideals strength and passion and purpose. You know choosing to spend her life life. You know doing things because with those values in mind and she said something at some point that was sort of like this a wistful comment like I wish I I wish as a younger woman I would have been enabled to or a known. That was an option for me to choose to do things the way that she's doing them and you know I think this is a direct correlation to it. We're seeing with our friend. Cole raising her daughter. You know like the fact that this stepdaughter is is aware of the fact that these are choices available to her is directly attributable to the generation and of this sixty something year old woman that I was talking to who has made it possible for for those coming behind them to know that the options are there to to you know put cracks in those those glass ceilings women like her experience matters her experience even though she maybe just now figuring out that she could make some of those choices based on her own passion and purpose the work that she has done paving the way for the rest of US matters and counts toward toward our world becoming one in which women are empowered to do more than generations previous. CBS Stars have been able to do exactly right. You know so that was that was just a neat tie in that night. I felt like I left there feeling like I'm just proud to be a woman girl absolutely no and just feeling really great about about the women in my life life. The women that were we've encountered encountered all summer who are out there doing new things trying new stuff living in their truth living in their strengths and changing their worlds. You know the words with the people around him as a result yeah so go girls girls. I mean women not girls girls colloquial. Okay that's true as intended in a pejorative way. It's okay. I think so too well from Eagle. We drove. We drove West Toward Oregon beautiful drive day. Yeah you know we're in the Frick Buni. Leave the Boise area in Idaho Idaho. There's not a lot west of there and then you enter Oregon and there's a whole lot less fair because we drove through some just really remote desolate areas it was a gorgeous drive and it was a lot of it was new road for us gas which is highly difficult to achieve in the lives of two people apple who've driven pretty much every road drive in the United States seriously yeah but you know it was once one medium scared destination to another mother medium obscure destination you know through a not very well traveled route and so we ended up in Bend Oregon during that drive and what a beautiful place place. I haven't been there since I was a kid when I was when I was like an elementary school at some point my family took an Oregon vacation and I remember that we went to Sun River Oregon remember. We're having a t shirt that I wore at school felt very proud of that. I was like back in wearing my T. shirt from out of state in elementary school and we got back from summer vacation yeah yeah. I remember being having a t shirt from somewhere where you don't live years old yeah totally and so. I kind of feel like that frankly. Oh do you. Oh really yeah. I've got my outsiders house t shirt from Tulsa Oklahoma. I've been wearing that proudly on tour. That's true to our friend. Danny boy that's so true so yeah you know bend is is beautiful and it was a really unique situation that brought us to bend one unlike any that we've really ever had on our how artur touring career someone who would our hosts. Lawrence Sauce perform at House concert in Gresham Oregon earlier earlier this summer a phase high and when we extended the dates for our late summer and fall dates she wrote with a really interesting idea. She's like you know. I don't think that I can that. I got the ability to get your your minimum thirty people to come to a concert but I have a different idea. What do you think about this instead and what she suggested is that she wanted to invite twelve of her closest girlfriends to her vacation home or family vacation home in bend for a whole weekend getaway of which the concert Saturday night was going to be a centerpiece of the night and so she sponsored the show and and then had her friends chip in for that sponsored show rates so we could do this performance for a smaller more intimate group of people and it was magical. It was really really really really cool first of all you were. The only guy had that feel. Oh great very very comfortable for me. I think I've talked about this in previous episodes of the podcast but like I have surrounded myself largely with women in my adult life from age eighteen onwards. I've sought out the company of women. I've lived with only women's since I I had I had a male roommate my freshman year of college no remain my sophomore year had one but then he wasn't able to come back to school so I just had the room to myself on a junior and senior year three and five women respectively in those years and have only lived with a female roommates for the entire time since then and I'd just feel super comfortable in in a female environment and I feel very comfortable being the only the only guy in a female environment. It's a role I know well and can be very comfortable in us and so it was great for me. I love it you are you currently have sparkly toast. So you know like I said we got pedicures and I didn't get a color. I just hadn't put the sparkle stuff on yeah. It's real discreetly from certain angles. You can't even tell I forget and then I'll catch him in the morning like what the either sparkle toes so this. This episode is turning out to be a whole lot of women. I love it. I love the women energy here yeah but this this women energy at this at this cabin in bend was a beautiful beautiful night. We're up in the mountains. They're allegation like three eight thousand feet and you know because these women had gathered together with the intention analogy of spending time together and then sort of having those Saturday nights centerpiece of if they're gathering concerts and it and we were up in the mountains it kind of felt like camp you know like do like getting away to it also sharply for House kind of backs up just to a nature preserve exactly but it's just like there's a wetland area that kind of just goes through the land of the terror river yeah ends and so had that we're out in the boonies at camp feel really accentuate because like you go out to her back patio and it's just like reads and deer runs and trees yeah yeah a lot of other houses very cool in that way you know when you're when you get away to a place like that like you know whether it's for a vacation or weekend getaway or right when you were kid and you went to camp you know there is something about being in nature and being out in a place where when you look up at night you sued the stars. You know it just makes you feel. I don't know it makes me feel a little bit more able to be in touch with things things outside of my everyday concerns yes you know and to be to be in that environment with those with those women doing that. It was just really special. We got to talk with abundant. We stayed forever and talked and had so many conversations with people and one of the women said me one of the first conversations I I had somebody afterward. Actually she said you know a lot of us here. IT TURNS OUT WE'RE ALL A lot of us are sort of in a transitional place in our our lives for one reason or other and she shared with me what that meant for her and then in the subsequent conversations. I had with a number more of them. It was so true and like the people are going through big stuff from major career changes to going through divorces to you know pondering a a a significant move new location just major lifestyle stuff. That's not that that you know. Oh getting away to contemplate would probably be really good idea you know and and get some perspective yeah life like getting away affords you perspective on your life. Yeah it totally totally and so just you know that this group of people I don't even know if they knew that everybody so many of them in this group were going through so how many changes in transitions right now or if it just ended up being that way or maybe that's something that the odds are you know this age group of women. Maybe that's it happens more frequently. During that phase of life yeah potentially knows I'm not even sure if that was intentional or not but here they were I can't processing their transitions friends and we got to be a part of that and that was really special that was really really special and for her to use your songs and the show you of created and this thing that we do energetically in a group of people as a focal point for that was a real honor for me absolutely oh you know what I do like you could tell that she knew that that's the energy that because we bring energy and she knew that she was going to be bringing energy to in that she thought that those energies would be a good fit for one was a spot on and be super cool. Yeah thank you Laurin yeah. It was a really special nights. It was the following day we drove some more new road from Bend Oregon to Newberg Oregon over a mountain pass over the cascades. It was gorgeous. Just be youthful will and we ended up at the new big. Blue House occupied buyer dear friends Darlene Lennox and I should say it's not a new house the house from like nineteen eighteen o six but it's new to them last year and they Charleena's somebody that I met way back in two thousand ten then when I was on tour with a two other songwriters and a drummer that we had hired we called ourselves the band end of songwriters we learn each other's songs and played each other played backup for each other big shoutout to Aaron Beaumont. GT Spangler Nick Beer. That's right and we went out on this tour around the Western. US and that's when I first met Darlene we played it was actually probably the maybe one of the first house concerts I've ever replayed with band of songwriters back in two thousand ten. That's where I met Darlene and She invited us all to stay at her house that night. which was great? It's the guys took over her kid's bedrooms where they were bunk beds and that meant that the only spot left for me to sleep in was right next to Charleen in her bed o the very first day that I met Darlene. We shared a bed together sounds very racy but it was not at all but we've been we've been dear friends ever since then share a bed with somebody you gotta remained friends. That's just the role. Oh yeah sure so we've been different since then and a few years ago she married her sweetheart. Lennox who's just an amazing soul wonderful and they they have been working toward toward dreams dreams in their lives toward goals that they've got as individuals and as a couple and this big blue house where they moved into a year ago is a manifestation station up so much of the bounty that they have been just welcoming into their lives and it was so wonderful to be there and celebrate that with them in their news so ooh wonderful it's yeah it's just amazing. I mean 'cause we have known darlene through a bunch of different versions of her life. Yeah Darlene for instance is yeah. She's an incredible nurturer. She laid the very definition of what it is to be a nurturing human being She has raised her own kitchen. Ritchie is also raised a bunch of her niece's kids. just out of a need that arose in everyone's life she is just a wonderful person a wonderful mom just caring soul and you know she is always centered other people in that way and so look for her now to be a place where she doesn't they don't have any kids currently living with them right. Everyone's kind of out of the House and she and Lennox get to explore lake. What will what are the what are our dreams. Raza Copeland what we want for our say and they really wanted a space where a that felt like a sanctuary for them to have a space for Lennox to do music like a real intentional space not like the corner of a bedroom somewhere but like here's your music space. I we relate to that. We're those people to and space space for her to do the stuff that she likes to do and then also space for guests in space for family and just for it to be a sanctuary for not just then before anyone who wants to be able to come to spend time with them and just decompress which is such an amazing thing and it's this beautiful house from like the early nineteen hundreds with this amazing woodwork and he's really high ceilings in that very classic western American architecture kind of way it's beautiful. It's wonderful and it's just it's spacious but not too big. It's big but still comfy. It's just wonderful she shared with us that she's been wanting to host one of our house concerts for years and this is finally the year that she got to start doing that and they. I mean they told us next year I think we're going to be. They're going to be on your schedule next summer ever which I'm so excited about. I think it's I think it's it's already an annual tradition also they're living room sounds really good. Does is true like old plaster last laugh. Oh my gosh does good things for sound people. Can I tell you my favorite moment of the whole the have several favorite moments one of my favorite moments of the whole night was was when Lennox got up at the end of the concerts to sort of give closing remarks at the end of the show and I end the the show with a song called infinite lines which is on the new record and I introduced the song as being my love song to possibility and he got up and he remarked about that. He's like you know I'm i. I heard you say before you put that last. Song that this is your love song possibility and it was so fitting because over the course of this evening I fell in love the possibility that is just the most rewarding thing that I could have possibly heard from any human like seriously. That's that's what you know. When I write a record I write I write about the stuff that I am personally wrestling with snow or needing in my life you know like this record. It came directly out of my own experience of you know understanding that there's a lot of really dark stuff happening in the world and in our in our lives all the time but that I need I needed to be able to focus is on what's possible and put my energy towards that and find others who want to do the same thing as we can propel each other forward toward a to a better place than where where we are right. Now you know what I've needed and and you know if I could have. I didn't really articulate this so much before we set out for the tour but if I could go back in time I would. I would articulate my goals for this tour as or my goal this tour as being. I want a whole bunch of people to fall in love with possibility and he summed up for me in a way that I didn't even realize that's that's what I hope is what is needed in my life and I and I realize over the course of sharing me songs with people that also need is other people on that journey falling in love with that idea at banding together to to move forward. I agree with that completely. I mean because there has been is pervasive subtext for us as a society over the past couple of years and that's dread and foreboding and lack of certainty and worry about the future and I I know that for you and for me part of what we really were very conscious about as we were working on designing this record you know Oh in the store and this whole experience was the idea that we really needed a center positively into central joy yeah and to and to really explicitly not have there be heaviness S. or darkness but really have it be a celebration yeah you know and we'll because we have a lot celebrate Yup. We really do. That's it. We have a lot of celebrate and we have a a lot of really great ideas to make our lives in this world better than they currently are and we're not gonNA ever achieve them. If we Wallo hello and I know that we doesn't mean you need the world in general that's what our ideas in the world that are good and that we can act on. Yes yeah and we need really to be focusing on that. You know it's really easy to feel divided and focus on the negative and I think it's sometimes really hard to feel like there is that sense of possibility and that there is something something positive that we can all focus on as as a body politic yeah absolutely so that was really fun. It was a great night can't wait to go back next year same also they've had the cutest kitty ever. Yes that's so true and I wanNA give a shout out to misfits Dr Scott's daughter. Abby who you showed up. That's right yeah. She losing area came by that was so fun great good for the shutout human being so we're GonNa take a quick break and we are going to come back after the break. We're going to tell you about the the concert experience that we had yesterday final concert in this last week's run of shows which was a really unique and profound experience for us both revelatory even yeah so stay tuned after the break wait for that we'll see since Unisex. Uh We're back back which means we're still on. I five driving. Could you tell or driving date of Washington barreling towards coma where we live so so sorry tonight sleeping in our own bed alleluia just for one night to start but I don't want to rush into things you gotTa East back in Yeah. He's back in mm-hmm but yes we're back. We are here in the second part of today's episode to talk about the show that we did yesterday which a little bit of a little bit of background out we'll get a backstory couple of different parts of the back story I will take the first part of the backstory which is how this show came to sure go for it in the first place so every spring we make a new record which which we bring out on tour with in the summer and fall and each it's spring we also do a an album fundraiser to run to raise the funds to make that record kickstarter and we have a community the people over the country in the world that participates and you know people choose the level at which they want to participate one and a levels that we've had for the last couple of years which has become one of my absolute favorite favorite levels sport. It's just the best is a level called the gift of music in which somebody who contributes seven hundred fifty dollars. That's what that's what the price tag was this past year anyone who could be seven hundred fifty dollars for this gift of Music Package we will will in their honour gift a concert to a group of people who would not normally be able to be part of the the kind of concert experiences that we give to folks around the world so around the country so the idea. Is You know we would do it for you know last year we did it for a group home of of somebody who lives in a group home and actually the indigent afraid group of group homes so it was you know clients people with varying physical disabilities who are the clients and the group homes and their caregivers offers and their families all came when we got to a concert for them and it was so special rose amazing physical and emotional and mental disabilities kind of represented so it was just as magical metrical medical day so the the intention is to give it to you know a group of people like that so this year room of donation based concert would just not be a thing exactly exactly so this this year we have a member of our community from Canada Wendy Mae who gave us the gift of music contribution this year ear and she asked us to choose the the group that we would be giving this concert too so that's great for us was we can kind of keep our ears. I the ground about like where where my you know this work in with our schedule. Who might you know who. Who can we give this to an earlier in the summer? we ended up at a house concert. at our friends santas house. She's been hosting us as a host for a number of years now and we got talking with Shanteau Dante about this new job that she'd been have that she'd had for the last the previous few months yup just got it and and in talking to her about her job. We realized Oh man this could be a really cool place to give a gift of music concert said. You WANNA share shanties part of it was yes shontae it has as a few months ago being the program director for a place called host H. O. S. T. and what it is. This is a transitional youth shelter transitional shelter Slash Services Facility for an housed youth so youth like when I was a kid we will call them homeless but I've learned that the we've learned that a better term is in house which really kind of makes sense because it's like just because you don't have any indoors place to stay. It doesn't mean the you don't have a home like these people's homes Salem Oregon. It's just they don't have a house to live in in their home right of Salem Oregon right so they're announced and specifically its youth aged eighteen to twenty five and it's just an amazing amazing place. There's a there's a number of different things they have going on. They have a twelve bed ed like many dormitory where people can stay after a trial period of one month for up to a year as they sort of transitioned into kind kind of being more integrated into sort of normative society you know light rain would have a job and a place to live on your own and you know just all that kind of stuff so place where they've got a roof over their head is secure place to sleep every night while they are also accessing services from this center to if they need to work on getting their ged he completed up do that or job training for you know figuring out what kind of a job they want to. They want to apply for figuring out where their next housing housing might be in like how the you know save up money for first month's deposit. Tana anybody airy skills like all all the life life skills that like if you don't have a stable parenting situation in your teenage years you don't get taught right and so many of us just take that for granted right like we just get mentored by our our parents. you know in all this stuff. We need to just a simple stuff like if you get paid twice a month. How do you not blow your paycheck on video view. Games a TV and then not have money for food for a week and a half right just like the stuff that you know to do those of us who taught seems like common sense but for someone who has never been taught this excuse very abstract or been modeled behavior that you know that you can learn from that way too so there's this shelter aspect of it but they also have a walk in center and they get you know dozens of people a day come in for They can make appointments to take a shower do their laundry. They get food a meal hot meal counseling so that people can talk to them about what where they're at and what they need and see if there's any like other services can look them in too yeah yeah we met one woman who's been working there for seventeen years one of the staff people and she mentioned to us that she every once in a while someone who was was her client you know years and years and years ago will come will pop in because it's been in the same location for seventeen years. An old client will pop in and say hi and these are people who who are now living successful lives. They've got families. They've got you know they're they're. They're they're doing well and they you know credit at the time in this transitional place for having given them the leg up to form those successful lives. You know it was just Sunni deal yeah so so yesterday. wh- we saw earlier this summer we learn about what she was doing at the center. We're like well. Maybe this we we asked her. Would this would a concert experience like this. Do you think be beneficial to slash you know received by the population of people that you serve and she jumped on it. She was like yes absolutely we would love this right and after after after she had hosted the show like that evening so she had seen the show yeah exactly and so we've been planning this with her for months and we showed up and so. I have to say it would before we arrived. You know not knowing knowing just just from having heard what the center is all about. I knew I thought I knew what what happened. What happens there you know and I think I started to think it's myself. Oh Gosh is this you know is what I have to offer really going to be applicable to relevant relevant anyway. You know how I started really question doubt myself and I realized you know in in some of those self-doubt moments that like that is something that happens when we enter into something thing this unknown previously in an unknown situations easy. You just say clearly not easy but when we're entering a previously unknown type of situation sure her bass for me like when the vulnerability feeling kind of kicks in and known like well. Maybe I is what I offer to be you know and and I started to think well should i. Maybe like do a truncated version of the show should I you know I wasn't sure if you should scale it back. It's really it's really touching you all like anytime uh-huh Shannon's in a situation where she's feeling insecure. First instinct is maybe I should cut the show well sweet. I guess there's never cut the show I don't know if and if the description of sweet that's not it's not sweet. It's just it's it's my self doubt and then there's nothing sweet about that you know. I suppose that's it's. It is my my humility about. It's touching to me okay well. I appreciate that but you know I had I I realized as we were approaching the actual concert like okay you know I'm not sure how it's going to be you know and they'd set out like you know twenty or so chairs and by the time concert time started you know so there were probably six clients. Maybe four or five staff people who hung out what's really intimate group. Yeah and there were more kids apparently early sitting on the patio outside listening who didn't feel comfortable being in side in that structure of environment that many people which again like ten people will in a space that could hold forty. You know what I mean right but I I get it. You know like if environment feels overwhelming overwhelming absolutely and we spend some time hi before concert time getting to know students they showed up at three thirty roughly and we have a half an hour to kind of like hanging clients. I said students science because they're yeah exactly. Sorry yeah totally so we we hung out. got to know them many of them most of them introduced. US introduce themselves to us with their street names. Yes I took me off guard. I've not I've not had experience living on the street so I I that was like something I had to process in in real time like a fanciful nickname. Oh yeah like it makes sense that you know if you're if you're living living in a vulnerable type situation that you would protect your self a little bit with check your privacy however you can absolutely true so and they were all very people who interacted with very friendly and you know being jokesters each other and a little bit with us but there were. Oh worm there were welcoming and then we sat down to do showtime and I start performing and the room went quiet. They just pin drop quiet and somewhere in there. I made the decision to just give one hundred ten percent of what I am able to give you know and not hold back in any other ways that myself dot was telling me to and again you know like uh-huh that self-doubt thing can creep up anywhere at any time so it's not like it only happens in situations like this it can happen in someone's living room and does yeah and I often have to make the choice like a conscious choice. Okay Shannon. You're here to give of yourself and what you've prepared now. Sit Down and do it and don't hold back you know and so somewhere in there that we did that and Tang. These people really received us in a really open hearted way I. I think that there was part of me especially as as we were talking before the show about like asking them and what kind of music do you like to listen to and Mike. What are they going to think about a middle aged woman sitting by the piano singing songs about feelings. Are they. GonNa receive this and it's so interesting because I had that same sort of wonder too late. You know beforehand like house is going to relate. I figured it wouldn't someway but I wasn't quite sure how but like as I was listening to you perform the show in real time and do my thing too it also like listening to the words as they came out of your mouth and realtime whole different contexts. Oh yeah just like sitting getting in that room with those kids. It was like oh my gosh. This feels so relevant yeah so much of it felt. I mean specifically relevant like I was because I'm super super empathetic. I always when I'm in a group of people doing what I do for the show which is shaped the sound shaped the experience therefore the people are having in the room and I can really shade it in a bunch of different different ways to share. If you're me you can shape a sonic experience in a number of different ways and you're an audio manipulated audio manipulate and so I I have to be really really empathetic and so a skill that I have developed around. This is really to be so intentional about reaching out with my little antennae and feeling appealing. What is the energy in the room moment to moment. What do people need where people at how can I better connect Shannon's experience with the experience that they're having in this moment yeah you know and what I was picking up on just imagining trying to put myself in their shoes. That's what I always try to do in a crowd like put myself in the shoes of the crowd and like who are these people on what they need and how can I best help them with that you know and there seemed just in that moment to me to be so many things that you were saying that. I thought I thought this was a show about how you know optimism or maybe a metaphorical way. This is the show about ideas from you. Know the new deal or something like that. Take a metaphorical layer there but this somebody there's so much of this show is like this is a show about how in having how you overcome homelessness like so much of what you're seeing it just felt like it was specifically in that moment applicable in a way which is very interesting to me. Yeah I found myself you know when I was talking. There's a song on the new record called crushed which is a song that that I wrote based on just notes I jotted down on my phone when I was having a nasty internal battle with with a feeling of scarcity Yup Yup and I introduce that song by talking about that moment and and what it feels like for me when I'm dealing with with scarcity with a feeling of scarcity and sharing that story I'm like I have never experienced scarcity in a real way right like these people in this room have experienced scarcity in their lives. Yes you know they are currently living in a dorm or on Rosary on the street yeah like they. They have come from this from the street. Even if they're living in the dorm they have lived on the street and that's certainly has not been part of my experience and you know to to he's singing. Those words are saying those words with that. Lens in front of me. My face was just I was pretty profound and you know. Put your money where your mouth is kind of moment. You Know WanNa sing about scarcity in front of these kids. Well you better fricken. Put Your heart into yeah. Exactly you know you cannot bullshit scarcity to a roomful of homeless youth right right and so you know and there was a part of me that actually was feeling right before that moment like do I what white eight to I have to talk about this issue in front of this group of people you know there was a part of me that in in real time was having this debate within myself south and then it occurred to me as I was performing it so the song crashed in this show we transition from crushed into a song from a few records ago uh-huh called slowly break which is ultimately a song about the first bulk the song is about the idea that that our hearts break slowly over time via just the life pounding hounding us over and over hopes being dashed over and over going about doing what we just doing the routine and not finding joy in anymore more. That's how our hearts slow thick with unhealthy behavior patterns and attachments on that too. Yes life can grind you down yeah the very end of the song it it transforms into this moment of then. I remember that I have everything I need within me and I can take a breath and let it go and redemptive moment redemptive moment so at that moment in that song I every single night on tour. I make I make an intention an intentional act of trying to make eye contact with as many audience members as we'll do that with me you just look you look over every single person in the space as I'm delivering that last redemptive moment of that song right and having gone through this this whole thing and like you know. Do I have the right to talk about. Scarcity with this group of people will and okay. I'm doing it and giving it all here. We go pouring it all out. I get that last verse of that last that Song that set and I start looking around. It's the first time I've made eye contact with these with these folks you know span of Tucson whole songs right and as I'm going from face to face every single one of with them was looking intently back at me with an overwhelming amount of openness nece to what it was that I was offering to them. Yeah not a stitch of defensiveness for for callousness Orlic street hardened like emotional armor and it was all I could do to just not burst into tears at that moment a saw before me these faces of people who forever they have every reason to not trust the world not trust the people that cross their paths is because especially adults yet where the age of the parents who rejected them yeah and we should talk about that as we learned over the course of the day a lot of sort of some the back stories of some of these young people yeah I and so I was kinda shocked like almost everybody we met their story was that and it was the same story with a bunch of different shapes taken yeah that they to a person everyone but one that I talked about this was gay or bi or Trans and had been kicked out of their home typically in a violent and abrupt fashion yeah by apparent who wouldn't accept them when they realize what their kid was. enemy in some of these stories were shocking this one kid was sharing with me how his when when he came out as Bi to his parents his dad went and got a twelve gauge a cockpit put it in his face and said get Outta my house right now. I'm blowing your head off right and like I mean not like you've got thirty minutes. Pack a bag like Louis from from there to the street in in fifteen seconds and that's it and now you're homeless right there was this other Kid who was showing me this little slight guy showing me had multiple bullet wounds healed up and I and and multiple stab wounds including one in his chest. stab wounds just barely missed his heart which is why he thinks now he has some heart problems not that he's received a bunch of adequate healthcare but that's his like self-assessment right and it was the same kind of thing. I mean he he was on the street after coming out as by to his family and got taken in by an older person to him you know someone I think in their thirties who started injecting him with heroin while he was asleep conventionally found out in a in an effort to get him addicted to to make him more pliable apparently just like super manipulative in really devious actual ways just just insane exploitation behavior. We met a young on a trans woman. who came out to her family trans and again was it was taking the league at the F. Out of my house was driven by her uncle from this rural town outside of Salem where they live to to to Salem and dropped off at a men's shelter. I guess they just like founded on Google or something. You know what I mean. It wasn't like where's a good place for a young. Trans woman was like here. Here's a men's shelter alter right so it's just like a bunch of the way she characterized it was it was me. I walk into this room. Full of a bunch of fifty year old alcoholic man not exactly exactly the safest feeling environment for like a seventeen year old very tiny very petite trans woman who's clearly clearly still existing in the mail container. She was born in you know which is not a safe way to move through the world for most transpeople anyway you know moving to the world is a trans. This person is fraught under the best of circumstances and it's like the worst of circumstances. I I was really struck. I know that I've heard stories about how a lot of an house youth the Lacob a very large percentage of the une house population are people who are Lgbtq who have been rejected by their families and this is why they are living on the streets yeah I think I was not prepared for the personal stories of of the vast majority of people we encountered. They're yesterday and it's really easy for those of us. Who've not had that experience of of being without a home without a house you know to it's easy. It's really easy to make assumptions about what that population is like. I mentioned to somebody a couple of weeks ago that we were going to be doing this concert with you know the Center for announced youth describing what kind of services the center provides for these people and the comment back from this person. I was telling this to was we'll. Do they have jobs. I'm like okay. We're just missing a whole lot of layers here of understanding and compassion like like an Arrow pointed that comment was the of the subtext was the reason they don't have homes is a lack of personal responsibility exactly. Can we just stop with all of that like mm-hmm. I goddamn baby boomers bootstraps GONNA. Just you know my heart breaks. I and I want to scream all at the same time. You know for those of us who have not been in that position. You know what maybe just. Let's shut our mouths until until we have gained a little bit more understanding about what people have been through an are going through yeah in the world because you know I I like to I think that I I like to think that I I try to be that kind of open minded open hearted person and seeking understanding I and even I was taken aback by the the experience that we had yesterday and and where these where these folks have come from in their lives and how they've ended up in this yeah I know I think it's probably ease. It's easy for us. Also ah to caricature populations that we don't know a lot and a hands on way like in in sympathetic and empathetic ways also trying didn't give him almost. I was GONNA say too much better for the but that's not what I'm trying. That's not the right way to say. I'm I'm. I'm thinking this through in real time okay but like I kind of in my mind I think had imagined that there would be more pathos in the room that it would be a sad experience somehow that they would just be this this bottomless well of need every single person and well absolutely these kids do have so many critical needs yeah also still kids there was so much joy in that. Gosh L. so much youthful energy and creativity and silliness like that doesn't doc in a person just because they're also an incredibly need in their life. They're still just being a human being in the world. They're still just being the person they are. It's just that they're doing so under. You're so much more of a burden you now but it doesn't stop you from being the person you are right right and from and from and from being able to be a person who can experience joy and and love and connection with other humid midst. I think that was probably the one of the most profound experiences of yesterday for me was in in those moments where I got to share that like intentional contact with everybody in the room and then in the hugs that every single one of them gave us afterwards leaving. I mean meaningful deep hugs. Sir Not clinging any clingy needy hugs snow just like connective connective what I what I I was not expecting acting to experience a group of people for whom the world to whom the mets Amos redway. It's okay okay. The world is treated them horribly and yet to a person in each their own way. They had an open heart to the world ruled that I wasn't expecting yeah. I saw them each able to receive the love that they deserve like they still they still they have not yet closed themselves up with an understanding a misunderstanding they they are somehow not deserving of love they were able to receive it and can. I just say that I've been in living rooms with grown ass this adults on this tour that don't have that kind of openness in their lives so sure that that have closed themselves up. You know I don't know saying we've been through through living rooms with like everybody's like that but we encounter adults or all the time. ABSOLU- have had way more advantages than these kids have had in their lives uh and yet have gotten themselves to a place of belief that they don't deserve connection or they don't deserve or they're or they're scared to death of it do do and aren't open to it. These kids aren't these kids aren't they're. They're they're ready for the ready for love and possibility in their life and it was frigate inspiring to be there with them. Yeah really was anything else you. WanNa say about yesterday. Well actually yeah because this is going going to err on Wednesday and and this thing that we're doing it might still be going on an cool so another feature of this this transitional sessional youth center host is that they they have a music room they have they had there's an extra room in the building in this little building in that they have dedicated to be the music room and I mean it's like you know eight by twelve with a weird angle bitten off it's just like the weird odd and end room and it's a music room and they have a bunch of donated aided like a few acoustic. Guitars Electric Guitar Amplifier Keyboard a decent keyboard in in fact a microphone Kerr phone. There's there's stuff their sheet music all this stuff and there was just. W- there's a young man in particular right now and I know that there have been others in the past because this this building's been there for a long time several of the people we encountered yesterday our musical in some way yes that's true. There's there was a number of them. There who are musical. They've got beautiful. are are the Trans girl that we met. She plays piano beautifully trained another young man he was. There has a beautiful singing voice. Yeah there was this one man young man particular who wants to be a music producer right. That's what he wants to do and he doesn't have anything to produce music on but he has all these the ideas and he was showing you like a legal pad with pages and pages and pages of handwritten notes not just of lyrics but also like separated out into different groupings like like these ones would be panned these ones we'd be in the left side of the headphones and these ones will be on the right side ahead because it's one of the voice of the consciousness one's voice the subconscious and and all the music would be right up to center as a way of grounding these two experiences like you had all these thoughts written down on paper because he has no way of fixing them in any kind of tangible will formally he doesn't to record that. There's no recording equipment. They're right and so we got ninety S so we got this idea because that's what I do right. I fix fix things in a tangible medium the way you do that these days excuse me with a computer a computer and you have software on it. you know perhaps it's a Mac with garage band. You know it is sort of most barebones but also still really good level and they don't have that and we were talking with Shanti our Buddy the program director about that a- and she says that it's you know it's on their list but I mean there's things on their list lake any organization like this they have more ideas than they have budget always and budget constant issue you know and they're always working to make ends meet and you know and things like this like a computer for the music room. Never necessarily is in the top five most urgent things right right and so so we got this idea. I got this idea like well. What if we could leverage the power of our community. Maybe to buy these kids amuse. He's a computer the computer for their music. You know get them a used AMAC that has garage band on it and get them a recording interface. Pardon the honking someone almost to the side of our car racing. Now we're okay. We're okay don't text and drive drive in Washington d curvy so late last night so last night I put out the word on facebook yeah. This is a dream we had to try to raise money money for music computer and some year for them to be able to make recordings. Yeah I described the situation and I and you know I just made an appeal like hey. Here's here's a here's the situation. Here's something that we feel could really be helpful to them. What do you think you know and as this recording as this recording according is more than funded for the base level of what it could be yeah which is really really really exciting. I had sort of set a provisional barebones. Goal is seven hundred bucks. That's enough to by like a used. I Mak a pretty decent one. Actually I mean granted sixers old but a six year old computer for this kind of thing is fine and you no and and an interface interfaces what you used to get sounds into the computer interface between the the real world the computer world you know percent for sound and so we already have that covered people continue to pitch in and here's the deal. I want to encourage anyone listening to this podcast right now if you would like to be a part heart helping improve the lives of these on house youth in transition through the healing and restored power of music and the unbelievable pride cried and sense of self reliance and satisfaction that you can get from activating a creative idea of yours into the world fixing it in a tangible medium you know I know from my experience with with alcoholism and homelessness that that music is one of the things that saved me that gave me a purpose it gave me something to get up for when things were the Darcus Arcus in the worst and I know that you can have that power and I know that it can have that power for these kids. we already have enough to do the most barebones version of this but you know if we can go bigger. Eric Great Lake if we can put more ram in that computer so it can be more responsive and more engaging to work with wonderful if we can get the version with a bigger monitors that they can see more things things at the same time and it's easier great if we can put a bigger hard drive in it so more people can store their musical ideas on their great bottom line. Is that whatever you if you decide. Did you want to contribute to this project with us. All of it will be going to to this effort of creating music studio for these announced Youth Center. We'll be taking collection for this for another few days. this airs on Wednesday. We'll probably wrap up on Friday. So if you're if you listen to this new want to pitch in do so you Venema me at at Hill Jam H. I. L. L. J. A. M. You can cash abney. My username is dollar. Sign Hill Jam H. I. L. L. J. A. M. You can can pay PAL me. My email address is hill jam at secret agent Audio Dot Com if you need to find another way to get money to you can messenger injure it to me. There's all kinds of ways There's no wrong way to do it. just let me know that you're sending me money for that. and I'll just put it into the pot and whatever the pot ends up being the weekend we're going to buy these kids set up for great. It's all happening. It's happening and those of you who are listening who have already contributed. Thank you so much. It's such a joy way to with you. Get to do this with these kids for these kids. It's pretty awesome. Thank you and thank you to Shans. Hey for welcoming us is to host and to her whole staff. That was just you were also remarkably warm welcoming and the work that you're doing there is clearly just of such great value. These are saints Amman us and S- thank you for for what will you do dedicating your life doing everyday everyday. Thank you Wendy Mae who funded this gift of music and really opened up this whole possibility to all of us and you know. Oh kind of overarching thank you to our community. you all just astound me on a regular basis. I with how you open your parts and you open your lives to others to us. people in your community folks that you don't know I A and really glad to walking this planet at the same time as you all very very very lucky with that episode passers. You'll sign off for the day. I don't want to Brag but we're like twenty five miles away for tastic Gosh. I have news for you that you're GONNA have to make a piece me before I get there. I'm honestly shocked to go this far relief miracle well. Thank you so much for spending the last hour or so with us. It's been in just a joy to get to to share our experiences with you. if you have thoughts about any of this stuff if you are a part of our misfit stars supporting according member group on Facebook we would love to hear from you. if you're not you could rectify that by going to misfit stars dot com slash join who takes like a forty five sixty seconds tops you can sign up you can become a supporting number. Basically here's the deal. If you like what we're doing in the world and you would like us to have five of your dollars per months to do a a little bit more of it than this the way that you can just sort of give us that support on an ongoing basis so thank you to those of you decide that you want to do that and listeners thank you so much for giving us figures for a little while we will be back next week with another episode which we may record into Canada as possible. Abyan International Episode Road Wants Misfits Without Borders a catchy so until then you I'll take good care of yourself and good care Arab each other and we will see you next week can't wait tightly then love. You guys bye bye.

Shannon US Darlene Lennox Oregon Nicole Nicola Mike Salem Oregon House concert Jamie Hill Washington Boise apple Columbia River California facebook Washington youtube
Hunted

Urge to Kill

24:25 min | 1 year ago

Hunted

"Previously on urge to kill from the room tearing Iq a woman so our main concern number one is nobody else gets hurt in my worst nightmares just come true. He goes just switched from a missing person. All we found kills purse. We found a rock that was used to commit the crime. And we found pretty pretty damning evidence linking to Kelly's murder. It's eight forty five pm P. M. Monday July twenty fifth two days after Kaley Sawyer went missing a nineteen year old named Andrea. Maze walks out to her car after her double shift at the Ross Dress for less in Salem Oregon. She takes US snapchat selfie before starting her car. When suddenly suddenly a stranger with a gun reaches in through a cracked window Andrea doesn't know her life is about to change forever and then everything everything just happened so fast? He's got into my car and Just at gunpoint just forcing me to drive him so I just still. He had asked me to do huge telling me like as long as you get to where I need to go like. You'll you'll be alive. I'll make sure I'm your host Ashley Cores Lynn. This is episode three of urge to kill a cagey w original. I I met Andre Amaz- well covering this case for a news story. When I started working on this podcast I knew all I needed to interview her because her experience is a big part of the story? When I I reached out to her I was nervous? I didn't WanNA screw this up. She went through through the unimaginable and live talk about it. Her story is incredible and I wanted to be the one to tell it. I explained the podcast. And she told me she you would think about it and get back to me. I knew what that meant though. She was politely blowing me off so a couple of weeks went by and I sent her a text message to check in. I knew she was apprehensive about talking to me and would probably tell me no this time. But she doesn't she tells me yes and then it should be right there on the right a few weeks later we drive to her home in Salem Oregon about an hour from Portland we are here. We pull up to Andreas home where she lives with her grandma and cousins it surrounded by trees and it sort of hidden away behind a church as we get out of the car. I wonder if Andrea area is religious. What she's gone through could either draw someone to religion or push them away altogether? That's my talker for Eric. Patterson once we get our equipment out of the car we head up to the front door when it just walk up first and then we'll grab I'll set all this down and I can help you. I'm completely nervous. That will scare her off. And she'll backout. Hi Andrea good to see you again. You Eric Eh. Yeah and then I'm destiny in meal. Urban coffee is so they should be on there. Wouldn't we don't want to intimidate or any more than we already have. So so we try to be nonchalant about all the gear that cameras lights. It can be a lot Awesome so eric sets in gear setup. Andre is only done one other interview that I know of that was with dateline. NBC crew when they like with lights people they had way more. That was probably way more than what we're work remotely timid that you too. So let's see where do you what were you feel. Most comfortable uh-huh maybe like in the Lebanon shirt. She is so soft spoken. It's almost hard for me to hear her. At first which makes me wonder under how this interview is going to go. We sit down in the living room and I admire her natural beauty. She is striking. She has long dark wavy hair and and a small nose ring. We do a little small talk and then I asked her about her family. Yes I grew up in a really really small town in Washington Born in Yakima. So it's like a twenty minute drive from there but very small so just everyone kind of knows everybody. Our family was mostly there the time but then everyone kind of spread out when their own ways. Just give me a little glimpse into your life right now. Like what are what do you do for work What do you like to do for fun Well right now. WE'RE GONNA Call Center for T. Mobile. Aw and for the most part I really like it like everyone I work with but when I'm not working I usually have my jeep and doing some exploring or I I I love being outdoors so I like hiking or just going to league or anything to do with outdoors I am there. I asked her to take us back to the summer of twenty sixteen and the night. Everything changed. Whatever you're comfortable sharing but let's just kinda start if if we can just from the beginning of what happened so take us back to the night you were working when this happened I ended up working a double shift that day because they had someone else has called dollar. Something sells like Sherry. I'm nothing else to allstate and take their shift What by the time everything was done? Like nine o'clock already and Andrea leaves her shift at Ross and walks out to her her car. She takes a quick snapchat Selfie and then checks facebook. And then I'll sitting in my car And that's when I had gotten a facebook notification so I had my car on had the doors locked but like the windows were cracked a little bit. Just 'cause like really muggy in the car but I've always had known like my mom would always tell me like you never like leave your car unlocked sitting there and like I always had those things in my hand so I was like okay. Doors are locked. I'm fine she's about to hit send on a facebook message. Winning arm shoots through her window and he was really pressed up against my window so I didn't see a face and at the time I thought it was just a coworker. Worker playing a prank on me or someone I knew like I never in a million years would have thought like what was happening was actually happening. But it's not a CO worker. It's Edwin Laura and he gets into the car with a backpack and a gun. He points it at Andrea. Do you remember the the first words he said to you. I just remember him like getting in and he was just like they just drive drive drive like I need to get out of here and he just kept repeating those things. Do you even remember what you said next. I'd never had really realized like the fight fighter freeze mode when you're like in a situation like that. I completely froze and I remember like everything. Every part hard to me was like on fire like Numb I was hyperventilating. Rages started driving. Like I had no idea where I was going in my head. He was just like take me to where I need to go and I'll let you go and I was like okay like down. The street Scher like could be off wherever you want. That's fine Not really realizing he was trying to go to California so we were starting to drive down the freeway freeland. I'm just like okay. Where am I taking you like? And then that's when he told me he's like I need to get to California and I'm like Oh okay. Things are different now and then Edwin tells Andrea Dot. He's killed someone. I remember just like went into a shock like I had no idea what to do like I always told my mom like if something were to ever happen to me like I would rather die before I would let someone do something to me. But it's crazy when you're in that moment like you don't think the same you don't think I'm just going to jump out of the car. I'm just going to ram this car into another car. You think more logically like what am I going to do to make sure I stay alive life. What can I do to ensure that like when your life is actually on the line everything changes you can think now like oh I would not? I would have done that but not until you're in that position Sean. Then you'll realize it's completely different. All she can do in. That moment is listened to his demands. So she drives. Was it like in the movies you know in time standstill but then everything's spinning at the same time. That's what I would imagine. Yeah and it it was like still kind of daylight so I'm just like how did no one like no like or notice anything like I don't know is so weird it was like completely crazy. As e everything just was like stopped Edwin start spilling to Andrea about what he's done. He says he killed the woman and then fled his home in Redmond. He drove to his parents house to ditches car and took there's instead he drove two and a half hours north th west to Salem and then he admits to waiting almost hunting for the perfect woman to kidnap. I guess the car he was using broke down or something at the mall or I'm not sure where the car was. But he said he was at the mall looking for people there I and that's when he saw the pregnant lady And he went to like ask her something and she like I just brushed them off and kept walking and has comment to me about. It was like little dish you know what I could have done to her. And I'm just like this guy is crazy to even think thought like he was hunting for a woman. Yeah yeah he was for you. Yeah I mean ultimately it ended like your. That's how it felt one hundred percent because he said when he was at Ross. Hugh saw me walk to my car to get my bag to return it. He will watch me. Walk back into the store and then he saw me come back out again and get into my car. So you've watched me the whole time. It is just like gives me chills. The like you never know when you're out and about WHO's watching you growing up here doing with everything that's going on. Now I'm process towns even spanning Bardstown Kentucky's a small all town in the heart of the bluegrass state but Bardstown Kentucky also has secrets five unsolved murders over four years rumors and and theories and still no one is behind bars. You'll Bardstown a new podcast from volt studios. It's been the almost six years. There's still not a lot of answers just a warning. What you're about? Oh to hear maybe triggering or upsetting to survivors of sexual assault or violence. mm-hmm Andrea starts driving south toward northern California. She only makes it about an hour when Edwin tells her to pull off to the side of the road. She's driving driving too fast. He doesn't WanNa get pulled over by police and that's where he can't cuffed me to my gear shifter thing and had me hop to the passenger side and he got on the driver's seat And he kept driving the rest of the way So I I really didn't drive very far. But he drove most of the way to California and then the whole time he was just talking to me trying to like find out who I was my life like siblings and friends friends and boyfriends and just trying to make small talk and I just kept telling him like. I don't want to answer questions and I would just shut them down like I'm like if you're going to do anything to me regardless list like I can't stop it but I'm not going to give you information to other people. The people I care about that you could potentially harm to And so I I don't know He. Just he never really was forcefully trying to get information outta me he was more trying to just like yeah and it was completely the weirdest thing ever because he was like like on his phone showing me pictures of him and his wife and like he's like Cobb and I don't know if you've heard of what happened. The girl just killed and He was. We're trying to show me the article and I had no idea what was going on at the time But I was just like this guy is like on something or like. Something's just not all they're like is I don't know what's going on or what to do but I'm just GonNa try to do what he wants so he can. Maybe just leave me alone and I can just go back home. Did you think he was gonNA kill you. Oh I did like I. Don't I don't think in the moment I felt like he was going to kill me because I had been like cooperating. And unlike doing what he had asked to driver say here do that because you felt like maybe he would if he ever take care of you if you comply so I kind of had that mentality like as long as I do what he asked him. I'm like not you know getting all crazy like you know just keeping my cool things like maybe he'll just you know and I in a way kind of like he did because at one point when we were driving I was like I really need to go to the bathroom and will you need to wait and I'm like no. I really need to go to the bathroom. So he pulled pulled over. And I'm like what can never pulled over to let their person go to the bathroom so I feel like in a way like I always had control over the situation. Even though I didn't have the control control I was still like calling certain shots or I was still like saying notice certain things. You'd probably surprised him You did stand up to him a bit. Yeah I would think I think so. They drive for several hours late into the night there in southern Oregon. Now an edmonds getting. I'm tired he tells Andrea going to stop and stay in a roadside motel. They pull up and park right in front of a check in window. A surveillance camera records them as they talk to the clerk at the front desk. WHO's behind the window Andrea wearing dark dress and her hair is up in a messy bun? She's standing with her arms crossed Edwin. Who still has a gun is wearing a baseball hat in jeans? His back is to the surveillance. That's camera did you walk with him up to the desk came. You remember like looking at the front desk clerk thinking like help me or what was that like. Take your The way it was set up it was like the little office was like outside. So was it like in a building But he had told me the same thing when we had gone into the gas station he was just like you know. Don't make any eye contact. I will shoot them and shoot you. I don't care so if you WanNa make sure that you Greysteel live. Don't make eye contact. Don't make any gestures. Don't do anything. Just look down and he made me pretend to be his girlfriend and Mike hold my hand and it was the most awful feeling ever like being forced to like act like something when you know what's going on and someone doesn't see that like I always wondered how the Motel clerk did not notice any anywhere signs like I'm this young looking girl with the older looking guy like and I looked completely tore up. I had no makeup. I've been crying the clerk. It doesn't notice at all. He handed when the room key and the to get back in their car and drive around the motel to their room when they get inside Edwin handcuffs cops Andrea to the bathroom door for some reason. He wraps a t shirt around her head to cover her eyes while he showers. She can't see anything but she can hear the water. Eventually Stop Stop. Edwin gets out of the shower and then tells her to get in but Andrea refuses I had told him I was like what I didn't even bring clothes like. What do you expect me to change into and I was like I didn't expect to be cannot lake and I just like had made little remarks and he never would like say anything back in just like thinking back? I'm like wow like I was very gutsy to say things like that to have knowing like he had a gun and he had just told me he had had killed somebody. And did he talk a lot about When he talked about what he did in bend and with Kaley did he seem proud or scared or or confused? What did he seem like? He definitely didn't seem confused. He knew exactly what he did Not Proud but just like I thought take a well like you had no remorse for anything. And that's what I knew when he would talk about it. I was just like yeah. This guy is something else and like the whole time when we were driving he cup still trying to make conversation with me just to talk and he started talking about his life and his family and he was saying how his his family comes from like a long line of like vicious murderers and like he was giving me their names. And he's like yeah you can look them up but it was like idolized them. Yeah Yeah Edwin Forces Andrea to the bed and handcuffs her to the frame. He takes out a bottle of sleeping pills and a handful of syringes. His mom is diabetic and kept them in her car which Edwin had taken that's where Edwin found the needles. He tells Andrea that if she doesn't voluntarily swallow the sleeping pills he will inject her. He's willing to do anything to sedate her. He told me he could either. He's like you need to take some sleepy medicine all either injected to or you could take it through this pill and I never really remember seeing like what it was. It was probably like some. I don't know like I don't know what kind of medicine there is other but I do remember after I had taken the book. So it's like not letting you inject anything into me I remember after I took it. I was starting to get really tired. I just worked a double shift that day. Mind you. It's like past midnight already. It's like past one in the morning. I was extremely tired from working so with the pillow. Just like Felker look. I had taken like five ten Melatonin and I was getting very very groggy very tired and I remember it just trying to fight it and keep myself awake. I just can't can't imagine what you was even going through your mind in that moment. Yeah I just kept thinking like if I fall asleep like he would probably try to knowing how disturbing he is he probably would even still try to like take advantage of me or something. So that was my motivation for trying to make sure I stayed awake. ooh Out of nowhere. An alarm on her phone goes off and it startles Edwin. It all happened like in the perfect moment because we were both laying in the same bed and that's been handling turned over here like licked my ear lobe and I could tell where this was going to start going towards like. Oh no like no. This is not going to happen. And then that's when my phone have gone off It's enough to rattle Edwin by Andrea a few seconds to think so. When you're in the hotel room you came up with a pretty Genius Plan I don't know what else to call it like. Walk us through what happened. And what how you you outsmarted him. Yeah I don't know how idea just like popped into my head like I said I remember my phone. Just had gone off and he had my phone at the time so he looked at it and it was like an alarm and for some reason that like really worried him and he was like. What's this alarm for her and he was just like asking me a million question? Uh It's almost as if Edwin thinks the alarm is a signal for the police to bust into the room at any moment. He badgers her for or an answer about why her phone is going off. At the time I was just like It's my alarm to take my medicine and he was like for what and I was like. I have an S. T. You D and I take medicine every day and I have to control it or else you know it's really harmful for me and he just started asking me like a bunch of questions like trying to figure out like what it was exactly and I was just trying to make it sound as discussing possible to like differ him and ultimately it did work so I mean he didn't know the story about an S. T. D. is ally and it worked Andrea Saves herself from a potential sexual assault. But she knows Edmonds wins dangerous so she tries to stay awake and suddenly Edwin gets a phone call. He likes her talking to someone on the phone own in Spanish and like I do understand Spanish but there's like different dialects so isolated. What kind of Spanish he spoke? Just I didn't understand everything one hundred percent and probably because I was also very tired but I was picking up bits and pieces and he was talking to someone about like he was like no. I'll be leaving now like I gotta go. He's like they're they're they're sending helicopters like he's he. I hear them and he kept talking about hearing helicopter so after that phone call he was like we gotta go. Let's go Andrea pleads with him to take her car and leave her in the motel room but he is not willing into let her get away he was still like no. You need to come with me like basically still returnees meals like a human shield kept saying like if something were to happen like they wouldn't shoot even if I was there and just like that they're back on the road and on the run again but they're not going to get far before Edwin Edwin tries to take the life of yet another innocent person next time on urged to kill. All I remember is like hearing the gun go off and everything just started ringing and everything was blacked out for help you get any mature emergency. There's a gentleman who says he shot stomach Edwin. Laura takes a drastic take steps to escape as police close in my head Dr Been. I've already talked to people already. I don't WanNA kill anymore in straight out of a movie urge to kill is a cagey w and volt studios production. Please subscribe and leave us a rating or review. We've got a lot more information including videos and pictures on Cagey W DOT com slash urge to kill. You can also follow us on Instagram mm-hmm at urge to kill podcast and join the urge to kill facebook group on K.. GW's facebook page. This show is written and hosted by me Ashley Cores. Excellent it's produced by me. Destiny Johnson and me lameda. It's edited by Zachary Carver and Destiny Johnson original artwork by Jeff Patterson person and videography by Eric Patterson special thanks to Ellen Boynton and Keiji W management and staff if you were a loved one or a victim of sexual assault help is available. Twenty four seven call the national sexual assault hotline at one eight hundred six five six x four six seven three or you can find help at. Www Dot online dot rain dot org that's R. A.. I I N N hi- Bardstown listeners. This is Jessica Noll. If you're enjoying the show you might also like true crime chronicles from volt studios. We bring you a new true crime story from across the country each week digging into some lesser known cases. You might not have. I've heard of check out true crime chronicles and of course. Thanks for listening to Bardstown.

Andrea Dot Edwin Edwin Edwin Laura Salem Oregon facebook assault Bardstown California Andre Amaz Kaley Sawyer US Ashley Cores Lynn volt studios Portland Iq Kelly Lebanon allstate Sherry
Amy Clark of Ultrarunning Magazine

Martha Runs the World Podcast

29:51 min | 8 months ago

Amy Clark of Ultrarunning Magazine

"Welcome to Martha. World A podcast for the new take on running fitness and all things health-oriented I'm Martha. Use your host and each week. I present a new topic that is of interest to all runners. Welcome to episode seventy. Two of Martha runs the world. I hope you're doing well I. Hope you're runs are going great. I'm having a good time. I entered a new challenge this week. It starts this weekend. It's the coastal trails. But what is it called team coastal, one hundred Mile Challenge. Where from now until? June twentieth. I run miles so that's pretty big for me. Get a medal. And a buckle so that'll be pretty cool. And there's a lot of miles to run, and we have specific days where he runs specific mileage, so there's a bunch of us doing it, so it'll be kind of like together apart kind of thing, but I least it will make me feel like part of a group. And, I really miss being around people. I gotTa tell you. I'M NOT GONNA. Lie, no whining. No winding on this podcast, but I miss my friends and Miss Races. But. Today I have a great guest and amy. Clark is the editor of ultra running magazine. And when you think of. Running magazines, the premier magazines ultra running. It's just great. It's been great for years and years and years. It's never deteriorated. Gone down in quality. It's always been a consistent quality publication. And we're going to talk about it with her today. So here is a me Clark. Will you join me to welcome our guest? It's amy cart at a alter running magazine. Hi, amy, how are you I'm good Martha. How are you doing great? So how are you and your family handling things right now? Well I've got two kids who they're twins. They're ten years old to their home home, schooling and my husband's home. Working from home as well so it's you know the four of us. It's been. It's been good I can't say that we're not itching to get out and and be with people of course I think everybody is, but we're doing the best. We can so far My running has not been as consistent consistent as I'd hoped to, but. That's just because there's more more to do during the day so well. Yeah, and it's. It's hard to be motivated to get outside I've found yeah, it is. It's just hard because you feel like. You can't go as far anymore and I. Don't know if that's just my mental state as far as. Were closed around here in Bend Oregon where amount, but there again and you know I just don't feel like. I can travel as far so I'm I'm just kind of hanging out at home with the family and getting around on the neighborhood trails, and that's about it. Yeah I hear that so where do you like to go were like right now? Your neighbor turtles some that you enjoy. Well so far, you know Ben's got some really great trail access in the national forest area. So there's you know fills trail, which is a lot of mountain, biking and and single track and then. there's a couple of parks in town and they've got some like shelvin. Park. It got some really great trails. And then my favorite to go to is pilot butte. See Park in. It's just a mile and a half from my house, and so I run over there run up to the top and then come home, and it's about a good five to six miles so. That's my go-to. That's a nice. It's Nice regular run. Yeah, yeah, very cool. So how is ultra running magazine handling it right now? I know it's really hard for small businesses. You know so with all. The race has been canceled. part of our magazine covers a lot of our magazine covers races every month. and we were prior. To this a ten month, ten issues per year magazine and we just decided to combine the July August issues which. Normally the July issue would cover. It was kind of our at the races issue, so it would cover a lot of the sleet spring early summarizes in our August issued cover western states primarily. And so we combine the two given. The all the races have been canceled. Most races have been canceled and in thoughts with the thought that we would kind of make this kind of the summer issue, and it would be somewhat of a comeback, not knowing when races are going to start coming back which they haven't yet, but Kind of the he. Let's get through this together kind of deal where you know. We give runners ideas of what's going on right now and turning world. What can be done in lieu of ultra running? What coaches recommend for training I mean just kind of all of the things that people are questioning at this point in alter renting, because people definitely are not stopping there. They're continuing to Run. They're continuing to do adventure. Runs continuing to virtual races I. Don't know if you caught any of Zach bidders One hundred mile walk record on the treadmill this past weekend, but stuff like that has been. It's been fun to watch, and so you know we're covering that. That's kind of. That's kind of what we're doing so innocence. To answer your question, we've been doing find you know Oliver Columnists super energized and ready to write We just aren't going to be covering. The typical reasons that we we usually have results of and photos of in the in the magazine, so it'll be a little different, but it's not gonna be too crazy different. We'll still be covering the the sport well. That's great that you can adjust yeah. Because we all we all have to just right now and and yeah. I can't wait to read about it because I think the only way that I could enjoy. The treadmill is if I ran as fast as Zach does. I agree. Yeah! It might be fun. Right? I know it was funny. Because when this whole thing started a as at home with my kids, my husband was still working at his office, and so I was on the treadmill a lot and you know there was there is live concerts and I was excited because they could you know do some pickups and ladders on the treadmill? And then eventually he came home and I was like okay. WE'RE GONNA go back out and renegade. That was fun for a few. Out No more. I, tried it I tried doing it, and it's like it's true and does seem like. An hour it's. been a Mile Oh my God. Honestly I feel like I'm running faster on a treadmill than I am outside. So that's another part of it that time I don't get. I know I know. Is it just? No I can't do it I. Think the only time I did do is when we had the wildfires outside. You just couldn't run outside so I. Yeah and. Where you located at in California San Francisco San Francisco Okay So. Yeah, you. You've been through the the wildfire smoke. Quite some time and and I. It's a beautiful city. There's no excuse not to run outside unless there's like smoke A. You, always, Hear. You guys have beautiful trails down there. And you don't even have to leave the city. You know most lot. Cities are really ugly and boring, but we have beautiful places us no excuse not to run outside. So our weather isn't bad, either. It's not like we have snow. You know cold or hand you have you know rain, but who doesn't really impede running? It's just kind of different. You know we have actually read right now. which is kind of a new thing for us this spring, which which is nice, it's a nice change, but I grew up in the valley in Salem Oregon and The rain was always kind of depressing, but over here it's it's a little nice to have the rain once in a while, so I'm sure you feel the same states to probably have a variety of of climates. Were you spend so beautiful? It's absolutely gorgeous there. It is yeah. I pretty lucky to be able to live here so. Nice. The the virtual racist that's that's become a really a gigantic thing. Now that's pretty. It has yeah I've done a couple of myself. It's kind of the new thing for you know people to connect. Not only you know you get your your daily run out there or your race or whatever your distance redoing, but it's. It's a great way for people to connect with the community. Air Vita running seems to be. Making up for all the reasons they've had to cancel. They've been scheduling all these virtual runs and it's been. It's been fun to see because I think it's really keeping the community. bonded to a certain level so. Yeah. Yeah, there's there's ones that my friends are doing I'm not doing any really long runs right now, but I'm following a lot of friends who do a lot of my friends are doing that that thousand K. across Tennessee right? Yeah, and then there's one that the one that I. It's I'm not doing the distance or The the the what is that two hundred forty nine mile when the New York City. Subway twelve all right that was really fun I. I would do that one, but I'm not doing the long distances right now, but there are just so many, and then there's the one the three different races in Colorado. There's all kinds of different ones. They are there plenty out there and You know we're trying to cover as much as we can. Give you know allows is one of our calmness. He he'll be writing about the Tennessee one He actually covered. The the Cornwall's. The quarantine backyard ultra was one of the first and actually was just editing. We had Gordian. Write a piece for us on that that whole thing and it's you know. It's funny to hear come from an elite runner. Who's WHO's just running hours on hours on end and I JUST It's some people can take it and go with it and I. You know it's not not for me, but I think that a lot of people have been really jumping on the bandwagon and I think again I. Think it's great for the community so. It's been cool to watch. Yeah, yeah, it is and I like that there are all kinds of different distances, no kinds of different types of the virtual just like regular races, so they can get anybody going. I need a goal. If I'm going to run, I need something to run towards right. Yeah, same here same here. I just had a race canceled last night actually so it had to. You know and again this year. Was Not my this was just kind of my a year to keep keep going and I wasn't planning anything super ambitious, but but I had a couple runs. I really wanted to do and and so far they've been all canceled so and I think that's just typical with the with the community It's just what's happening for safety, and for other reasons it's it's understandable so. got to look ahead to summer and see what else I can find. YEA, exactly it's. It's sad. It's like Oh. Yeah. This point with Western states. They'll do next year, but you know just stick so hard to get into it. Yes, exactly you know we've had. Conversations about that as well and. There was there's a time when we looked in and Carl are publishers on the board and he was talking about. You know postponing it, but it again. There's just there's just a point where you want to say you know. Let's just wait until next year and those are big decisions and I don't. Disagree at all I think that it the right call. given that people aren't able to train normally I. Don't think right now, so. I think that you know you want a year where you can actually do it, and and do it to to the best of your ability so. We'll be right back to the show just after this. You may have seen the free. Shave secret samples in your race swags. Maybe weren't too sure, so you didn't try any. Let me tell you I did and I was amazed by how great this product is I purchase. Shave secret myself and it changed my shaving forever. Ladies Guys, razors are expensive, and if we can find a better way to shave, let's do it. Shave secret uses a preparation to soften the whiskers making it easier for the blade to get clean close shave shave. Secret is comprised of a proprietary blend all natural oils fragrances. It's not comprised of chemicals or preservatives. Small bottle last long time, so it's not expensive. Shave secret is a small American company employing Americans producing every batch in the US there little company, doing big things to help you with a great shave. You can find them at Walmart regionally at Heb or wagmans grocery or online at Amazon Dot Com and shave secret dot com enter MRT W checkout and receive a ten percent discount just for my listeners, and you can find the link for Shave secret at my website. Martha runs the World Dot Com. Yeah plus. A lot of the big. It now my. has both trail and road and a lot of the road marathons. They're all being pushed into November and October, so people are going to have like marathons every week. Ed. Yeah, no kidding. It's crazy. Ho and I hope that those can go on I mean I. You know I'm I'm crossing my fingers that things change over the summer so yeah. I just hope that people are able to get back at it. That's that that would be a real big boost for the running community to look ahead and say hey. Fall is when we're going running again. I would love to be able to say that. Yeah we have to eventually eventually things have to, because the economy has to move forward. So you know people are GonNa. Put up with not being stagnant for longer I. Don't think anyway but I've been wrong, so we'll say. Well and again you know our. This issue is kind of like what's what's it, GonNa look like when we come back because I think people are running more than ever right now and That's a great thing. I I were talking about a new generation of of runners I. Think when we come back after this whole, pandemic and I'm excited because. There's there's a part of me. That feels I've talked to others in the community about about this whole thing, but part of me feels like this is going to be opening. People's is to hey, there is running. There's recreation. There's no that Vikings huge right now. but a lot of people have been just getting back to you know, get outside, and hopefully that translates to you know a new generation of ultra runners, but You know it'll be exciting to watch actually. I'm I'm I'm looking forward to win racist up. Begin to see how many new people are are running because it's always kind of our goal is to spread the word of of how. Great Ultra running is and and how much fun it is, and so yeah, it'll be fun to see when it all get started again. Yeah that is true. That's going to be exciting. People are going to be so I. Mean I'm going to be excited to see my friends and see all the people I've missed and it's GONNA. Be So fun realize. Yes it is, and it will be really fun to actually be at races to get the metal to get whatever it. How however they're designed I I'm not sure what they look like, but the might be a little different, but. We'll through Witton and we'll handle it and we'll. We'll do it. And what I really liked about about. Ultra running magazine. Is that you guys offered now? through this all of your your back issues online free I think that's. That's really really cool thing. Well, it was. It was kind of a a no brainer as far as when Corrie are web. Guy And part owner of the magazine suggested that You know we should just. People are at home, looking for stuff to read, and you know this is, this is brain. Let's just open it up and let people start reading old issues because you know I mean who doesn't want to go back and dream about all the trails that they could run and maybe get ideas for new runs in the future, so yeah, it was. It was an old brainer. And who can keep I mean as much as I'd love to keep all my old magazine of fire hazards. Right. We. Old Issues Yeah the recycling bin Sometimes. Only. Have this accurate. It'll keep them I have a little bitty -partment. Each one of those people. That's on hoarders. I don't know how much room it's very. Very secrets face I get. Sacked, but so I. I kinda like that I can go back and look at something that that I remember from a couple years ago and it's there I. think that's. That's really cool so. Has Already magazine bit around so we've been around for forty years. It'll be actually. It was nineteen, eighty, one so May of nineteen, eighty, one and then so next year. Next year will be our fortieth year. This year I can't. I can't I. ASSUME IT be next year next May I I. Don't know if I'm off a year or not, but yeah. It'll be about forty years next May I think. Maybe I'm doing maybe I'm doing the math wrong. I think we're already at forty. With this last issue, we started into the fortieth year so yeah, forty years starting with the last issue. So yeah, it's. It's crazy I've been involved technically with the magazine for about five years and It's so much fun to see you know the the evolution of everything That's because I have issues from like the eighties Sitting on my shelves and it's so much fun to see the evolution of how. Running kind of change, but not really like alternative is still the same as it were back in the eighties. They've got different year and They're able to get a little further. Is You know the running two hundred miles plus these days, but Yeah, it's. It's fun too fun to look back and see all the all the stories and And read about all the people running western states back in you know nineteen ninety-three. Yeah. It's crazy and it's fun to see the same runners who maybe were very young then and they're still running. They're still running now. Yeah, exactly, it's love it. I love to see Given that we publish people's names and the results. I. Just love to look back and see all the. I'm like I. Know that person I know that person and. You know they're still posting results today, so it's pretty cool. Yeah, that's one of my favorite parts of the magazine is looking at all the results and and seeing people I know, and looking at the results very inspiring to I love that part. It is yeah, you know. The photography plays a big role and I can't discount that we've got. We've got amazing calmness, but we've also got amazing photographers and It's really a passion that they bring to to the sport. Because that's what they love to do, the job to go out and they to watch runners. They love to be in the mountains. They love to hike in two different places to get the perfect shot and We've really got a passionate bunch of folks who. Are Very incredibly talented and do hard work over. The race weekend and just provide us with this beautiful photography. That's Yeah, it's it's amazing so. Grateful for that. Race Race Photographers Unsung heroes will tell you they. Did they deserve. I agree they don't they definitely don't and it's And it's. It's something that you know I wish we could we could. Hire them on the spot and just keep him on staff forever. For that, so yeah, they don't get the big bucks like they do at the big street races. That's for sure. Eggs? Yeah, but they but we love him, and and hopefully people will show their gratitude races. I try to anyway. Yeah, for sure yeah, do you still find time to get? Get Out and race? I do so normal times anyway. I used. I've been running for. For years and I started running marathons in two thousand and two And I ran my first hundred miler last year. in at Western states and I. You know I. Absolutely love it. In fact, it's funny. How I transitioned from a road runner to a trail runner. It was it took time. It took that goal of of getting to Boston and then running Boston got okay. What's next, but But I absolutely love being out on the trails now and I, don't know. Maybe that's Ben has gotten bigger. It's hard to run on the road. But I really do I. Love being out the woods and and running on trails and. I. I'm actually trying to plant a couple at this summer in our local wilderness area so so we'll see if that happens, but. Yeah I'm. Still Planning on doing one hundred miler this year. Let's hope have Alina, but if not, it'll just get pushed next year, so. What's your favorite distance to race You know I've been asked that multiple times and I. Just I can't pick one in particular I, you know fifty K. was It's perfect, because it's nice and just enough time where it's not too long. You don't have to worry about it too much. being out there too long. The fifty miler technically done. Iran one hundred K. and ended up DNA. Just didn't make a cut off, but An and then hundred hundred K.. You know it's. It's a distance that challenges me and Oh. My Gosh I canyons last year and That was probably harder than Western states. Somebody told me it would be. Just as hard, but it really challenged me and it was. It was tough I didn't have any crew. Pace or anything, and it took me over seventeen hours to finish in I look back at that night. You know it really. It was so hard that it really stays with you. You know those heart, races and But they all do they all with me. Anyway, you know Western states. The hundred dollar was was a completely new experience for me and I absolutely loved it. It was it was hard, but I loved it and so I can't pick on. It's they're all great I'm not going to go. Pass one hundred right now I'll say that, but all those distances just that really hold a place in my heart so. Yeah. That's that's very cool. Well. I have one last question for you, sir. I always ask this of my running guests. If you could pick any race anywhere in the world, regardless, Apollo vacation or money or distance whatever? which race would you like to do? I just had that conversation with somebody and it was difficult to pick You know, let's see. I think about this for a minute because I don't want to be. Too Quick. Nick because I don't have. I don't have particular. I. There's so many that I want to do. It's just hard to pick any anyone. Austin so. Yeah and honestly I haven't traveled abroad yet, so I'm just going to say. There is a hundred dollar in Switzerland. And I'm just going to pick that one because I would love to go run in the Alps and i. don't necessarily need the. UTM is everybody wants to go. Do But I. don't need the crowds kind of. Kind of deter me from anything, and so I'm going to pick yeah, pick one hundred miler and Switzerland. Amazing. So it'd be beautiful yeah yeah. I Yeah, that's that's my bucket list. You just gotta go go to the Alps and go run so. That would be very amazing. Yeah well, I. Thank you so much I. really appreciate you being on the show. I just love all magazine new. You guys just do it right. I love the columns I love. Everything that you have in there, the information the gear reviews. A go on and on. You guys just do it right and you. You provide a lot of information for your readers, and you take care of the readers, the you Yankee, and you know our goal is to keep that voice, true and mission you know to grow the sport as as much as we can, and and keep providing that information to our readers as much as possible so so thank you for the support, and and thanks for all you do for the community as well 'cause it's it's nice to have different voices out there you know spreading the the love of running, so appreciate it absolutely, and you take care and have fun, Ben and and Maybe will see it at race, maybe seeing y'all. Okay Sir. Thanks. Thanks Martha. Okay bye bye. Thank you. Amy I really appreciate you. Being on the show means a lot to me I. Love Ultra Running magazine. It's my favorite. Love the Rennie magazines. Lot of magazines gone downhill. And haven't been what they once were, but altering has been always been good and I foresee as always being good. You WanNa publication that you can read great magazines and be inspired by NC beautiful pictures, and maybe see your friends and yourself and your races. That's that's the one to look at. I have a bunch of great episodes coming up lots of things planned and prepared. You keep doing your races. You keep going. Keep going and we'll get through this together as we always do. And I really appreciate your help I. Really Appreciate Your. Constant support and listening it means the world to me. Thank you so much for being listeners. If you want any more information, the links were ultra. Any magazine or anything will be on my website at Martha runs the World Dot Com. If you want to email me for any comments, questions or ideas for future shows in email me at Martha, world at g mail, DOT, com, it and and the website. If you want to give Patriot, you can do that and you can give a couple of bucks a month. Is. Dollars a month will go a long. Way I me. And until next week let's tie shoelaces and gopher, run.

Martha Ben Amy Clark Bend Oregon Alps editor Salem Oregon Vikings New York City Cornwall Tennessee Switzerland Amazon Dot Com US Walmart Zach Oliver Air Vita Gordian
Episode 179 - Interview with Tim & Mary Dady on health, hope, marriage, ministry, and family - June 16, 2020

Family Health

47:51 min | 7 months ago

Episode 179 - Interview with Tim & Mary Dady on health, hope, marriage, ministry, and family - June 16, 2020

"Welcome family teachers, a podcast or anyone who wants to experience healthy relationships within their family. This is Doctor Cory Gilbert and I'm honored to come alongside you to encourage educate and equip you as he focused on the different relationships Mikus family. Let's get started and focus on today's teacher. Dr Gilbert with family features? Five casts today I. Have Mary in a Tim Dedi GonNa. Share some today with us about kind of their life, their journey, and some really neat things that Gosden in their life. And also just how they can serve you, so I welcome Mary glad to have you on the podcast. Thank you, it's great to be here and being able to. A little bit about us and our during that guy's last counties past years, things are having s yeah, and so I. I actually reached out to them because I saw Mary post something on facebook about her journey of transformation. personal health and wellbeing so that I'm passionate about because of my own journey, but also this impacts everything for marriage to mental health, and then especially our physical health. so tell us more about you guys your journey your life, and where you've come from where you're at today. Yes, so we're both on court graduates. Remain Corp in. Where we were both ministry majors. and. Ended up doing full ministry. These Years where We ran lap the. Nice, young the small organization coach Osamu Injure. That's basically works in post-soviet countries with with Youth Ministry so neat wonderful. So we're helping. Local churches build. Youth Ministry is because. A lot of churches there, they have a strong like. Parent or older generation so sixty plus. A lot of the are. Not being reached, just helping churches realize if we don't reach the youth than our church will literally just die out in your church anymore and so just kind of helping bridge that gap. In bringing. Inviting students to events that they'd be more interested in not necessarily what? So through music and sports and everything like that just helping students connected with local churches, so is that lacking in that country? Just a lot of the youth type centered stings. He. Lappy has the second highest suicide rate. and. The percentage of Christians is round two percent depending on. What Your County? It is a tiny country. And there isn't church that survived communism. But yeah, they're definitely need some help in reaching the next generation. So your patch is your passion youth. Definitely working with. Junior high, high school, age and even. More recently into the college age. Range realizing that this is your students were really making those decisions of who got is Why am I here now and just being able to? Shine light where there's a lot of darkness I'm. Being a positive influence in students lives. How long were you in Latvia? Almost five years I'll allow five years and when you went, there was just you to. Ten mental old until the wow okay. He lived most of his life Latvia while. We have a daughter. WHO's soon have to NAFF. Meat so almost six year old and to nap K.. To two now while you're busy. That is the craziest stage of life is especially a young mom of little ones. Julia. That's for sure, but now you're back in the united, states. In Salem Oregon. Not necessarily a planned. Exit was it. I. Tell me a little bit about that. so we? We had just come back to reporter. Churches, we just been back in states year ago about this time, and we were intending to go back two years, and which is kind of the term for. Her. But we also discovered in that year. That our son has some special needs developmental. Delays! And that Latvia basically didn't have any treatment for it. That, we have been traveling to lend in twice a year to get treatment for him in intensive block, and then trying to manage home, so there were some concerns on the way to the states who went to London, began and kind of her. Update about how? Our hope therapy was helping him or not. So we? After that trip, we kinda had in our hearts that you know possibly by the time in school that we need to be transitioning back. But we were also right on the edge of starting ministry for College Students, so that was our intention to come back in June and start this. Ministry for college students in August. And did you ever make it back, so he made it back. So we. Were there for the summer and then basically? Income the next. This school year. that. Was Koga related. But. During that time, it was made clear that it might be better if we saw treatment sooner than we were planning. On guess just to help him. Develop in really. I'm sure some areas that were lacking that we were getting the treatment for Latvian so. In. Our family really had been under. Stress for about two. And I think. You know as missionaries were really. Prepared and ready to deal with things that are challenging. Here's your stress. You're learning the language and operating in the language on a daily basis. But. After her daughter was born, I was also struggling with depression and anxiety. That really went undiagnosed for half the year. We have a stalled at one point that everyone is depressed in the winter, which might be true in Latvia? So. We knew that was going in the background, but. We had for shouldering it and trained to. Your best to get through so. Those things combined kind of. reposited major factors in s leading center. A lot of things outside of your control. Else your health. Your Son's health as you came back in September, October was up. There yes, over over K. To Salem Oregon, which is, is that where you're from? Not. Originally Sarah we spent. Since College, so about ten years before we went overseas, so he kind of basically call Ceelo home, even though our parents and where we grew up isn't. I'm kind of her. We hire our number. Our married life was in college life in. Berkshire Community incidences where? We thought calm. Jolt were AIDS there few go home foam That's. When you lived in multiple places. You're not sure what home is really. But. This is where our community is are supporting church so just seem natural to come back to Salem? I grew up as a missionary kid in Chile South America. Okay, so we came back unexpectedly. By senior year of high school. Right before here so I hated my parents. Of the transition, because every time we would visit that was the struggle was welcome home. No chilies home. Raises the foreign country. Who Am I where do I fit? Where's my world? I'm not. I'm white redhead their. Thumb and here I'm nobody. Yes, it's a struggle identity and you came back to Salem Oregon. And you had jobs lined up in. Life was all peachy right. That'd be nice. We Serum Roam. The moment was decided in raises sent for us that we would leave out till landing was only two months. Oh, wow, so we had to do months to literally sell everything we own. Hack it out, dope. So Yeah Tim definitely did some research during that time, but He hasn't had any interviews or anything. Until we until we got back, so you came back still in the job. The only thing we had lined up is we had a place to basically crash until we found Ma home now. But I was only thing we had. A Church family interestingly. Brian Change like crazy since years past, so it's. Yeah. That's hard, yeah! Some of the same people. Same People Church. Definitely grew lease double. Since we left so they're. Not really that. Feels like it. New People everywhere great so. But Differently, in the midst of because like. Within. Six weeks. We're in our home like my mom's a real estate agent. So she was able to come when weekend and help us of. Do some house hunting. Nine. This is the last one we saw was the one we chose. Because like descended being the one that was perfect for our family, so it's like it wasn't even one that we're really considering place is really who to see how God lettuce to this heck's. Lace, And, he bought the house. The House. That's a big step even in in and of itself. Yeah. And then you got a job. I hope somewhere in. Got A job before we got the house so inwardly. So. Get. Severance from adventure, so we were able to could. Manage things as well. But yes, they're gonNA. Jog working for ten ferry About. A month after being or To, do three weeks after my son win for interview training. Jobs, and the I recently he met with me. He's like I could really see you working here, so got really opened up that door awesome. and has really cool got his work and that's a job that's working with people. Yeah, in so this something we enjoy doing. Serving people in a different way, suits and cool to. Concern. Than straightly gifted That sometimes struggle overseas where there's sometimes a certain type of personality that's drawn visionaries civically and. He was really able to help support. Organizational. Yes, so needed. Oh, it's so yeah. Yeah. My my dad's a former physicists for NASA. So his organizational skills. Oh, man! That's sweet did so much of was. You're putting together the research, unreached people, groups, and the ten forty window and things like that that. Many of the especially the visionaries are not going to be. Necessarily focused on the US all the time now. Yeah, that's reasons great, but so along the way your health and your mental health is not okay, right? Yeah yeah, so after daughter restored. Must Depression anxiety which? We weren't sleeping. We were stressed, so it just really went on trade for a long time. It's like finally saw. A. Rollie gist because I thought. I was losing my mind I was. She. Began and said Oh honey kids you know. And didn't really offer any help. That's terrible. Deep breathing yes! Breathing! But I was like I had. Now I can see the textbook symptoms is rep losing weight and a heck. Racing thoughts sleep last higher. Things like that just at the same time as understanding that are science special needs so. Storm! season. Yeah. Thankfully After about eight months of training to seek medical help, not really finding anything. was able to get connected with Christian counselor. Which is in your coal? She's the only one in the country. Allow arm, yeah! She spoke by language she could. She could Watt Council in English, which was amazing. So she. At that point I was severely depressed and. Was Not having any good days in sheet? I didn't need to get on medication for while. Her sleep and for. Eighty and she kinda helps stabilize you. Yeah, which is to me, one of the powerful uses of medication? They're not the answer, but they're an. Tool to save save US ourselves. So along. Were you on medications? That six months. Actually after six months at tried to go off in, it was really challenging. And so I had to go back on, and we did a more slower Yup. Yeah still working with her as well so this is all in Latvia. Yeah No, okay and then. It's only funny because it sounds like making it up, but in the same in we had. Like massive analyst family so. Tim had pneumonia and influenza Lucas Influenza tonsillitis bronchitis. Bronchitis we were like using the breathing asking like it was eight weeks straight of very very sick people. Oh, man, and so thankfully got really protected arm unity was a little bit healthier at that time. But almost authorized both of these guys. Hundred four point eight fever something. And so there have been tons of antibiotics because. It was needed for certain things especially as lung infection. friend. who had been sharing about natural supplements because we knew we needed probiotics. And the most pharmaceuticals come from, Russia. We don't read Russian cyrillic. We really were just guessing all long lake. Or on recommendations from people. Try this works. Like. We we. A lot of trust in people's conditions, but we wanted something to help because I knew. Him, my son, for sure rebuilding unity. Religion. So. Yeah, so we did start on some supplements, just PROBIOTICS! By men in then it's during which helps with the trigger. I think about. Two months for became after the state. WHO's sorry. Yeah. Not even. is about two months probably. Said Pink Drink. Yes there's a known for its at plexus. Is the company in? It's A. It's a drink supplement that helps down split Sugar Yup. Powerful. Powerful tool. Yeah. I realized for myself I type, Alexi May Light? And so both nude in energy really impacted me by these dips. And Epson blows with depending on what kind of Food I e? So for me that that was a really big help. Just in recovery. That was the first step for evil sleep veteran. Where did you find out about the pink drink there unless you? Yeah a fellow missionary was was taking it talking Bible? To someone else who discovered it and said. Hey check this out. How was how was your marriage? During this time of kind of mental health and NEW BABIES and. Was that a struggle? Was it pretty? Good like what was some of the? On because we both weren't sleeping. There is. A lot of agitation, I think for me. It was harder because. I have not sleeping, but I'm not sleeping for other reasons, because obviously I can't breastfeed the baby but Lucas isn't sleeping. So you're just like you're just like hard to figure out the best way of supporting Mary through this snake vinyl. You're not sleeping, but I'm not sleeping neither of US really getting. What we went, so holloway like. Definitely Trying to figure out how to best support each other we neither of us are in a place that can be supported I guess so. It's helpful. Perfect storm really like. Yeah. Son's diagnosis new baby mom's not doing okay does not doing okay. The perfect storm in a foreign country rain which barriers. Yeah Yeah and. They two months before coming back, you find. plexus and the pink drink. And what happens with that? What does that do? Yes, so first few months. Just Timothy me just. Notice that we were sleeping better, which was huge because I was on sleeping mats. which anyone has been on? Them knows that it's like a roller coaster. These stop working sick more. Groggy, you know so, that was the first I was able to get rid of display better into probiotic you're taking also helps to sleep to so does. So I think that was the first thing we noticed. and by the time I was in process of talking to my doctor about getting. antidepressants in anxiety meds. Had experienced some withdrawal and just realizing that kind of. Dependency Pool. Wasn't there wanted to do and I. also a recovered. I had reached a better place through counseling and. So After a few months. Say around three months with recant healing the gut. Announcing blood sugar I started noticing my moods for more stable and was able to. Doctor prescribed get down in. A Both of those medications to that's wonderful yeah. What other benefits have you seen from? plexus, the pink, drink and probiotics. Well. Tim Dozen has improved. We, we used to joke that he had a parasite. That's true. It's amazing. You kinda liquid when he gets normal. Cell Light. His lawyer has been like. We always have messed up stomach like. Anything, different I think most. Americans actually have messed up stomach. Send just settle for they live that way. It's the sad diet standard American Diet. It's terrible. Definitely the by taking that, you saw a difference. First Time of your life. It sounds like. A being able to realize like Oh, that's not normal. Guts different mom sleeping better. That's not huge changes. In the others are son had? Definitely a depressed immune system, and he had gird four year old Cole, no so sad which was part of the issue asleep, so we did. figure. That out so. He is taking a kids version. probiotics every day. We sometimes supplement also with more for him. And we noticed a huge change in his immunity. Nice is allergies have improved tonight's. Totally gone usually this time of year. His is would be like almost shutoff. And we haven't had inhalers for him this year. That was a regular occurrence. And, so you started this then that would be back in. August Ish. Last year to just since August. There's all these improvements in health for everyone in your family. That's huge. In the other changes. And mental clarity and focus definitely improved. Just in general Seeing how easy like? One simple thing. Adding supplements at your body is lacking, can really. Just hire able to lake. Get through a day in? A good sleep as we were sleeping, but it wasn't like quality rightly. The last thing for me. Is WE'RE GONNA balance. The depression for me was was. Ramona induced probably end stress. And I had struggled like. Either with weather like when it's dark or Just, time of the month with having some lake shorter periods of depression. Throughout my life and those have lessened and lessened. There is a link between insulin balance. Down to other hormones Yup. So. That's been really huge because I think for me. That's big Nancy mood. Yeah! So that sounds so great, it's so encouraging to hear us so neat. To save removing some of the stress of being a cross cultural environment. Another another language. Yes, part of. A lot of our health struggles were exacerbated by. Just want stress so. I think that's helped as well nice. I know fifteen plus years ago, I walked into numerous doctors offices. With probiotics. Saying here's what's helped me so far, but now I'm gonNA. Flare Up have Crohn's. And go no, that doesn't work. There's not proof behind it totally dismissive. And then I go crazy. You think of an an of one so study of one me. It worked working with. Not It doesn't save. You doesn't fix everything which is one of the struggles we have with medications, and with other things is sometimes. It's like this is the savior of our world, and it's like no, it's a tool. Like plexus and Bouncing Blood Sugar and probiotics that improves the immune system all those things are tools can radically change your life, which is it? Changes are mood changes her. You Guide how you our partner, our family, our children myself which everything? Sleep alone, just suggesting that. Changes. So much. I found that most medications made my sleep worse. Got Rid of the rim cycle. A, critical time of your body healing following away memories gets shrunk, if not eliminated on a lot of medications. So, doing something, natural or some other version, other way of balancing the body changes everything which is. So exciting but I. Don't think a lot of people know about it. I, think a lot of people still go to the doctor. Just do what they're told. and. It's medications and it's I've met with some young ladies in their twenties there on eight seven days medications. Because they go in for one, and then we'll the now. There's another symptom so the take another and it's just this. Horrible horrible. You know after the other which breaks my heart, because that's like that's not. Fixing. And the studies above the GUT microbiome in the connection to the brain and the gut. It is fairly new I. Think in the last seven years. It's been explosion of research, so it's possible. Some doctors nurses they. I understand who got her rn ten years ago and it wasn't covered right there, so. How sometimes that happens? The ten knows less than seven or six or seven years ago. I was at a conference here in Oregon from a doctor from La. Hispanic guy saying I was trained. You know fifteen plus years ago. But here's the new future of medicine. In everything he outlined was better sleep. probiotics exercise water like all night so basic. But the reason why we don't hear about it is the Pharmaceutical Industry Rosa world written. Yeah, and it's not a quick fix you know. Like I told my story. I saw some changes after one one three months, excellence and It's getting better investor. It's like an upward cycle. But. It's not quick. It's not really quick. which Americans went the quick fix in Furhter King I way right away. If, they don't want it. Right away. It's like well then. It's not working for me so then. It's obviously. Owning so just. No I went to a doctor and he changed my diet, and it took a while to get adjusted for a year and a half. That's how long it took to turn the tide of adrenal fatigue, thyroid issues and the Crohn's flare ups by eating fishing rice. It's like I. Put my gut in a cast. Nothing else went in there. Soft stuff that can easily digest and high end in Omegas, and it did. It changed everything for my future. Most people are not going to do that right. Yeah, but Kinda even of this conversation. My goal is that people think hey there might be a better way. There's going to have a lot less negative impact on my body and incredible rewards bigger picture on your marriage on everything all those pieces who I am as a mom as a dad. Those hats we wear. And the thing that so fascinating to me. Is The belieber like how interconnected? Our body system are. And how? We can't street one one thing. It just makes me kind of. Marbly gots design. It's the more and more that we learn. Yup. That's what's sad is we've silo out all the you go to your priest, your pastor for spiritual you go to the shrink to deal with the mental health, and you go to your MD or do to deal with the doctor, we. It's all connected. You if you miss one so to me the best person to go to someone who's got training and all those even if they're not an expert in all of those. So the mess therapist has training in the others in his aware, this could be spiritual. This could also be physical or hormonal. The doctor, the doctors at a saved my life or doctors who had training in other areas. It could see things more holistically. Which I think is the future of of medicine. It's just it's going to be a slow tied to get there. A lot of good doctors that are. Coming to understand that and see that. There's hope. Mike this is another one of those great tools where. You do something like that regularly. You will see quick change in quick benefits. Yeah it's working towards healing. Your body can more efficiently work and the thing that I love to. Do so fascinating from a science standpoint. Most of the supplements. They also help your body produce. What needs? AIDS, your body to produce its own good area, the Collagen each body to produce the Collagen the. So it's like. It's not just. Consuming Yup. Let's train to heal. The natural processes never got any. How dare we do it that way? That is terrible. I could go into a whole list of things I've done. We'll save that for another time, but those things that I've done are all nontraditional in all ways that many would go. How dare you yet? Mileit life is night and day different. I struggle with depression every every few months, and I have ways that I manage it, but one of the things that I have is a wife who she can recognize when I'm not okay, and she can go Lori, and she can tell. Remind me get you. Get some ice and put it on your gut. It reduces inflammation. Drink some. Fish oil because I literally just drink it when I'm in a flare up and it takes care of Kaz straight to the problem. And Not all these side effects we have these tools. It's a matter of learning about them and. Using them when I'm in that place, I can't think straight. Yeah. My wife becomes an incredible asset of. Kind of saying hey, snap out of IT A. Get some help, do something. Though your marriage critical thing. Interesting, each other tin during our time receive. He also had some periods where he struggled with depression. It were shorter were circumstantial. I think for him, but. It totally takes someone from the outside to say. Hints. You're not acting like normal, or you're responding differently. They usually do. And that. Fused device you saw science for me. What was going on. You've been married. How long? Can Years Yeah and Gary Thomas Talks about in his book. Sacred Marriage takes about nine to fourteen years to finally kind of figure out who you are as a couple. So think about that right now. Ten Years Newer. All you've been through, you're just now. That's crazy to think about. A At ten years for Kelly. We had three kids. We've been through a bazillion hospitalizations with me. Lived I think five states. I, mean we. Only changes finished a PhD program. On and on and on. Yet. It takes that long. I guess we're that stupid are just getting. Word that slow. Learn each other and to trust. Can I trust them to have? My best interests when they say hey, you're not okay. So, your marriage is crucial for your kids to. It is true knowledge as you're talking about that later? You've been seeing signs and being like okay like. go take care. Take a long time. Take whatever you need. Amanda four liquor. Up. My biggest gift for my wife when she was young kids was I go okay. so-and-so hotel is booked. Check in time this time checkout times by. Go in, Take Your Bible a notebook of couple of books and. Get away from the kids, and that's a huge so knowing your husband and wife nine what they need. Right a motorcycle, but what I do is ride to work in back, and it's kind of a long way, and that's kind of my therapy, and I feel great afterwards. It's having those those things that. Can Combine your brain down or or wakes you up if that's what you need. So you're back in the states in Salem Oregon job got a house. You're in a good church. You're back in your home church. We remember before we got on the call. You mentioned, but ministry has been something your heart desires. You know. Tell me a little more about. Yeah I. Think. Both of us how story of when we were young? Teens. How got really tolliver lives in our relations? Him became real. And so since that time, we both really had heart for Youth Ministry we were doing of ministry before we went to Latvia and we just naturally collect people in nature. Just people are drawn to. Eleven Actually our last year we had a nineteen year old with us, and it was just like the most life you paying for both the setting. That was even in the midst of all this craziness. Snow exists. Nice. We love being able to be. Works. To Mentor. Into Guide young people towards truth, especially knowing that in that period of time. Sometimes are not listening to their parents. They should, but they can hear differently sometimes from. Other adults losses. And of course in Latvia, there were positive role models really anywhere. That was a real knocking. Yes of here. We have some opportunities if and when churches physically open. To be involved in some probably the college ministry. But. It's been interesting during that time. How God has called us just to reach. Yeah. So. Is the lake, even being able to. Meet some of our neighbors around Yep. That's been really nice like. People are more open to. Being out like not out out Blake Hey, consume Miami Street. He walks to even walk. Sir more open to chatting and so we've just been. Godsend of being able to. Reconnect Numerous so great. It's going to need to see. 'cause even got two young kids and. I don't know if more on the way or not, but. Your Ministry and where God leads you for work, or if he turns the work into ministry year The all those unknowns, but you're gonNA journey that together. Like To? Create something beautiful together. I don't. I would not be where I'm at. If it wasn't for my wife, she's just been credible. And it's weird to look back and see how I was even like the kind of girl I was attracted to was so different than she is. And I. I was so dumb. Fun to see that God really knew what I needed and. Just how beautiful that is and then the three kids and. Your ministry there is raising those to your two kids to. Love him to. Have a heart for Christ and others and. Live in a dark time when it comes to a Lotta anger and hate and. so so sad. Now it'll be interesting how. Lucas. We're living in Latvia. Thank. You would constantly ask different people like like. We're giving somebody a ride to either you. Or just whatever like you'd ask like us? Say quietly Do Jesus I love, God. Well? Why don't you ask them? Love it and so it'll be interesting to see. How if in how that develops now? Being back and be like if you if he is still inquisitive about different people that we invite into our lives of my son. One time, my middle son was in a tree. And also he realized one of his friends that he played with the street like just around. The neighborhood didn't know Jesus and he was like in the tree. Camera the kid's name. He was like Jeff. Do you know Jesus? You need to know Jesus. Like. That's not the best way to do that. Until you. But the heart. Oh please don't lose that heart i. just read it, Yeah. So so important. And so I remember again one of the things that drew me to to you Mary to to get on. This was the. Again that story of of transformation that you shared on facebook and just your. Urine, different place physically health mental health just. As a whole and that's just beautiful I love that I just. To me. Marriage is one of the most central pieces of who we are if married. And it impacts everything. But then it has that impact on mental health physical health, and then it's vice versa like we've talked about just the way that's all integrated. And then the spiritual health as well. The Community, Arc community actually ironically is we home school? So that's our home school community, and then we have voice scouts in American heritage girls. Never would have guessed that those would be 'cause. You mentioned being that role model for people. That voice when they won't listen to their parents. None of us really wanNA listen our parents as teenager. So, even the best of the best of US need other people around our kids that we kinda vet. that. We've chosen. And, obviously I would want mine around. You guys because that would be a good influence on them. We need more people like you guys in. Others that are struggling that are hurting. I've heard of a couple of suicides recently in the area. Just from this I think teenagers. It's heartbreaking. But any lasting you want to say and share. Does we kind of wrap. My desires that by being vulnerable about my story in the things that I don't. Love to share about that other people would find hope in that. That's really the that I share about melted hall. And aware of the fact that not everyone. You don't always know what people are dealing with right? And so I have some great conversations with people who are looking for help or maybe at a low point. Spy being open with my story. So, that's a big encouragement to me and it kind of motivates need to share. You know whether or not by specific journey to help his what theirs is. It still opens the door to have this genuine conversations. And Alabama that's. been by her along with ministry and. That's an avenue. And one of the things it'll be in the show. Notes is a link to your plexus. Rican order stuff like that the pink drink. Like that. So we'll put that in the show notes. make sure that that gets shared as well. because that saying that actually ends up also supporting you helping you. because that's something that's changed your life, which is so great I love that. Now! What about you tim? Singing about it Regard Mental Health is just being aware of the thing that helps fill your soul. With an reminding him for who you are in Christ I know for me. Since, the weather has been nicer while give or take. To ride my bike to work. On Greenwich like a Three Mile Bike ride, but even just there in back just having that time to where I'm not in a car. Yup, they kind of. Breathe fresher air, just kind of have that time and being like okay. Kind of Declutter, my brain and just enjoy God's presence while I'm writing his nature so. Finding that for who like you like? What is that thing that really? Helps you reconnect with God even dark times. Now relationships kind of people you put around you. The activities like riding your bike. The people you around the job you do take the kind of job. There can be really toxic people. Not at Ted, ferry I know that. We really toxic people in that destroys. People destroys us. Seventy percent of Americans hate their job like that's so depressing. Yes, vote to level. You do, but to think of your kids. Your kids are GonNa Change so fast. How to keep up, which is a fun journey. We WanNA restraint ring ring our kids next half the time yet. Couldn't be prouder of the kind of people they are. They're harsh. They have towards others and. Now, and then you also struggle in wonder sometimes and. That journey doing that in community so having that I hope you guys continue to to build that because I know you're also fairly new in the area, so. Important. I know my wife when we were in Georgia she reached out to our pastures, wife and said I need a mentor. And the wife connected with an older missionary lady sixties, who was just a life giver? To See, she ended up in Community Bible study and she's been a part of that for what twelve thirteen years now. where it was a group of women. some of them are actually over. Half of them had been married over fifty years. In to see the them in destined Kelly, my wife. That's invaluable. And I see for men, too. Many men don't have people like that in their life. So being able to really be intentional putting in your life that can build you up support. You encourage you kick in the tail. We need those men in our life, and some of us are quite stubborn as guys. which puts the burden on the wife? So. I'm excited to see what you guys do and. Thank you for coming on the podcast and again the. Mare your plexus. Link will be in the show notes and. Four to hearing good things from you guys and feature. Thanks for coming on. For having us. Thank you. Tuning into the family features podcast. It has been an honor to serve find out more about Dr Gilbert and his resources for you and your family's growth and success at healing lives dot com, and if you think you could use some support along the way, be sure to book that call at Book Dr G Dot Com and one more thing. If you found this helpful, please share this podcast with others so that we can change the world together.

Latvia depression Salem Oregon Mary Youth Ministry facebook AIDS US Crohn Doctor Cory Gilbert Tim Corp Lucas Kelly Osamu Injure Lappy Julia reporter
The Spirits Move You

Stories Podcast

16:30 min | 1 year ago

The Spirits Move You

"Hello welcome to stories podcast I'm your host Amanda Weldon. Today's story is called the spirits move you an addict nation of an African fable written for you by Daniel Hynes today we'd like to say a special thank you to Lucas and Cecil and their family in Salem Oregon competence for life. I really struggled with math when I was in school and I really would have benefited from the face to face interaction. Magnesium provides being able to ask questions event just drop in math nauseam works to build strong foundational skills develop critical thinking and boost grades and test scores giving kids confidence in math through twelve and they have over one thousand franchise locations worldwide they're highly trained caring instructors teach each child as an individual they create custom go to math nauseam dot com slash stories today to learn more about their programs or you can call eight five five nine ten math that's magnesium dot com family from Sao Paulo Brazil. Thank you so much Tayo Lucas Benjamin Zachary Hazel Olivia Cecil and Lucas. You are part of what makes it possible things when you join you'll get a new activity box every month that will include fun activities and Kid Tested Kid approved recipes that your family can make together and you'll also get access to them learning is not one-size-fits-all and the way each child learns is unique especially in subjects like math so the standard school curricula Dan brought me these little fish shaped crackers to try as a snack and they were so good and then he told me that he and his daughter Gracie made them together over the weekend and it's all thanks Gracie opened up their box they found cheesy stickers cheesy flash cards and a bunch of cheesy recipes I got to try the fish crackers which were so crunchy and tasty and stay on a topic until I really understood would have helped so much more than half a million parents trust magnesium to help their kids get caught up or get ahead in math now it's your turn America's test kitchen kids full digital library of family friendly recipes and online community trust me you and your kids are GonNa love the young chefs club and right now slash stories or call eight five nine ten math thanks enjoy the episode the spirit if you would like to receive a thank you and a few episode head over to Patriarch Dot com slash stories and make a pledge then sent an email to Amanda at stories podcast Dot Com how America's test kitchen kids has a special offer for our listeners get ten percent off your first subscription box when you go to K- kids dot com slash stories and to America's test kitchen kids new monthly activity kit for kids called the young chefs club every month a new activity kit is delivered straight to your door and each box has a special for us to continue to produce fun new stories for our listeners if you would like to support stories podcast you can leave us a five star review on itunes or just tell a friend about us us know who to thank the weight right now is less than one month so it's a really good time to pledge now here's a word from our sponsors today at the studio column could be too fast or too slow or maybe just to linear for your kid one of the best ways to help your child accelerate math is magnesium they provide face to face construction which is perfect for all kids whether they need to get caught up in math or if they're advanced and trying to stay ahead matinees EUM is the authority on math education for grades is learning plans specific to each kid's needs so they'll slow it down or speed it up or whatever your child needs to really grasp the concepts best of all you don't need to make an employee Oh fem- you already heard all about the TACO truck box that our friend Greg Aka MC munter got to try with his little boy and this month the theme was say cheese when Dan it's move you once upon a time a Fox and raccoon happened to be moving to the same neighborhood the Fox was moving use the Promo code a T K kids ten at checkout that's eighteen k kids dot com slash stories and use Promo Code at K kids ten Gracie said that she really loved creamy macaroni and cheese they made for dinner the young Chefs Club is a great way to get your kids five and up excited about cooking and eating new thing because her old den had been paved over to make a parking lot the raccoon was moving because his old neighborhood got a new kind of trash can that was really hard to open and across the same little clearing it was full of lush waving grass and protected from the wind in predators by a dense growth of reeds I since the Fox preferred to be out during the day while the raccoon did all his manic munching at night they were both looking for a place to set up their new home and happy said it was a hard time for both of them and maybe that explains why they were both a little rude at their first meeting it was dusk of well gosh this seems like a perfect place to make my new home said the Fox she's sniffed at the sweet grass with her delicate knows her find a dirty box to live in somewhere a dirty buck did you see one the raccoon asked excitedly and then remembered himself wouldn't tip over you know I have to have my garbage well I think it's mine said the Fox with an air of superiority I'm sure you can Louis Oh Sarah Fox but this place is spoken for he said I need a new house on account of my old house got ruined by trash cans any trash I find is mine the Fox laughed and swished her puffy red tail as if I'd ever share with you eighteen whiskers twitching yes I'll build a little house right here I love it. The raccoon overheard this and bristled immediate I'd rather go back and live in the parking lot they stared at each other across the swaying grass they were equally sized and neither one cared to no no you won't distract me that easily this place is mine I'd say we could share but I don't believe in sharing its every raccoon for himself out there eight we can let the spirit of the forest decide said the raccoon oh I'm so sure and how do we do that oh well that was a bust said the Fox fine snapped the raccoon that neither one of us will build here if the perfect little spot not really they both waited a day to try and be sneaky and then snuck back to the spot the Fox got back that's what it takes to be rid of you then fine the Fox agreed they both turned and went their separate ways but neither one plan to give up I looked all around perfect no raccoon she said the first thing will be to pull up all the grass I'll come back and do that he decided the first thing to be done was to pull up all the old grass he got to work with his paws and claws and worked until the sun started to rise and Morrogh satisfied she went to get some sleep the raccoon one out that same night late when it was dark and still like the Fox orest spirits please drop an acorn on whoever is meant to live you the pair waited for a long time no acorn spell sting his beady little is not a bad night's work he said to himself as he headed off to bed now I'll get this all swept and level the dirt so it was soft and level perfect she said when she was finished now tomorrow I can get some trees to make my house frame zero the Fox woke up a short while later and went to go clear the grass but when she arrived she couldn't believe what she saw that grass she turned her fuzzy back and headed off to bed of course the raccoon showed up just a couple of hours later to start his night and when he came to the house sure not wanting to seem grateful for the help of the spirits the Fox decided to continue the job she took her long fluffy tail and swept ready gathered she cried clapping her poems together what amazing forest spirits I found they truly must want me to make this my home oh my God as already cleared she said the spirits of the forest must have heard me and helped me with the work they totally want me to live here this is a special spot for sturdy and Stout enough for a house frame what a wonderful day he said to himself as he left to get some sleep now tomorrow I just need uh-huh not wanting to seem ungrateful for the help of the spirits the raccoon decided to continue the job he went and found some good fallen tree branches Josh thinks guys she took the trees that had been gathered doug some holes and planted their bottoms in the earth that way they stood straight and get these in the ground the Fox woke up a short while later and return to the clearing in the warm light of day Oh my gosh the trees have all sure they've swept the dirt for me he pranced forward sinking in his paws so soft so luxurious such a lovely spot for a home fragrant pine boughs the branches were thick with waxy needles that would keep out the worst of the wind and sun the Raccoon worked all night and went to bed exhaust sturdy in the air they're a perfect frame tomorrow I'll come and get some pine boughs for the walls she headed off to bed and the raccoon took her he gasped with excitement wow well shire's well we WANNA wherever he gasped the forest spirits want me to live did just before sunrise the Fox came shortly after missing the raccoon by mere moments she found the stack of Pine Boughs and nearly cry laced with the rising moon theses incredible this is just incredible incredible incredible incredible he cried finishing the house with careful Pau and claw and snout work she wove the Pine Boughs into the frame in the end she had a tight little house that kept her war means I'm not done yet but what else is there he thought for a minute and then to finally he leaped up clapping his paws hearing and saw the little house completed he nearly lost his roly-poly little mind oh my sweet stinky garbage he exclaimed he saw the small pile of branches that the Fox had left behind they had been extra of course but he didn't know that they left branches with joy those spirits have favored me again this is without a doubt the perfect spot for me to make my home she spent the rest of the day did she headed off to fetch her things leaving behind a small pile of unused branches the raccoon woke shortly after when he walked into the she took her things and went into the left side of the house she was soon settled and sleeping sweetly the raccoon returned when she was snoozing he moved I'm and smelled Piney and beautiful finished she said finally now I just have to get my stuff and move it in Oh my gosh I'm so excited is be evil she screamed and ran from the house the screen terrified the raccoon and he to ran out the door they collided and fell in a pile yes used her paws to scratch behind her ears thumping into the wall with a WEAP- WEAP- WEAP- on his side the raccoon leaned over his garbage full belly these things into the right side of the house and lay down to rest as well never seeing the Fox in her half at dusk they both got up to stretch the Fox out front get out of my way said the raccoon I'm running from screaming spirits in my house no you get out of my way said the Fox said the Fox show did you said the raccoon doesn't matter now though I already finished my house your house I just finished my house the spirits planted my frame for me they must really want me to live here as a show of his thinks the raccoon spent the rest of the day gathering wide. I'm running from a moaning monster in my house they looked at each other and then looked at the house you said you weren't going to build here the raccoon left and the Fox came back with her things short time later she saw the home with a wall down the center knew what it meant right away or at least she oh I got it the spirits have helped me build a lovely house but it's much too large for me they must want to room for themselves of course he took the brand it's helped me they gathered me pine boughs new I gathered Pine Boughs

Tayo Lucas Benjamin Zachary Ha Pine Boughs Fox Amanda Weldon Daniel Hynes Salem Oregon Sao Paulo Brazil ten percent eighteen k one month
The Airborne Toxic Event's Mikel Jollett Recounts His Astonishing Life Story

All Songs Considered

1:14:35 hr | 5 months ago

The Airborne Toxic Event's Mikel Jollett Recounts His Astonishing Life Story

"This message comes from NPR. Sponsor patriotic allowing creators to build real sustainable income through the direct support of their fans. If you're a creator sign up unpatriotic P., A. T. R. E. N. DOT COM and start building the steady income stream you deserve back in the day as Netflix's began to gain popularity, its rival blockbuster was looking for an edge or one point. The investors were asking blockbuster to sell jeans the store in these older investors being like you know what the kids want. They want gene you get a Tom Cruise movie and some stone wash jeans the downfall of blockbuster and the rise of networks listen to it's been a minute from NPR. From NPR music, it's all songs considered I'm Bob Boylan. So today you're in for a real treat Mikhail, Joe lay of the airborne toxic event is joining me to talk about his extraordinary memoir called Hollywood park, and then there's a subsequent album he did based on this story. It's a journey that begins with McKell has a very young child growing up in sin on. It's a drug, Rehab Facility turn occult he's separated from his parents and it's a journey that in the end is about what it means to be a family. My conversation with Michaela. took place live on the NPR Music Youtube. Channel back in mid July. So joining me from the eastwest studios in Hollywood California is Miquel juillet. Area good. So good to see you. For You Know I've had this a little while. That's big bird's feather by the way. Very Horn section VIBE, there's there's a saxophone by happened in somewhere now need to play. Cal I WANNA start with giving folks who haven't read the book yet a flavor of. What's in store in this book if you'd actually read. A small section of the book from the top. From the opening chapter of Hollywood Park we've been living in sin and on, which is a drug rehabilitation. Facility that my dad went to when he got out of prison on to get clean off heroin and he met my mother there who was a free-speech activists from Berkeley may met they got married and then you know was very utopian vision of society that spiraled out of control I into madness and one of those one of the pieces of the madness in addition to the violence that happened in the. Sort of say psychological violence that happened where the children one of the more difficult things to write about how all the children were put into an orphanage. So I was I was raised there until nearly four and my brother until he was nearly seven. And we didn't know our parents because in the Colt, you weren't allowed to have parents So the book is written from my perspective as a small child and then of course, as I get older my perspective as grade school student and that eventually as a rebellious preteen and then adult trying to make sense of everything And I yeah. So this is the day my mom shows up We don't really know what it means to have a mom or dad, hug we did know because of the call was becoming violent she came to the rescue us to bust us out. So this is from the end of that chapter. and. My brother's name is Tom and he's there as well. I look at Tony's face for clues but he's got his chin pressed against the door frame holding the paper bag with his stuff in it. My head feels woozy is my eyes fall on the buttons of Debbie's blue overalls. She's Nice but she's new I miss clubby because he used to be with us at night and would hold me when I had a bad dream and Kami. Thon. To Tom we were safe here all of us here in centered on living together a great big family tribe of humans who love each other and love the world and loved little babies most of all. Debbie whispers something to mom Tony. Mad I'm told is my brother. Seem on the playground, but he never plays with the other kids he sits by himself. I sit by sometimes but I don't think he likes me because he pushes me and tells me to leave him alone. He's three years older than twice my size people say look like each other but I don't see. MOM picks this up. She seems so much like a giant bird like she swooped down from the sky and got us I wanNA tell her not to worry that I can fly to I'm strong enough, and sometimes when I'm dreaming my ears get big big enough to be like wings and I can fly anywhere I want. I. Just flat them and sore way up into the sky. Tell myself remember. You have to remember this when you wake up. You can fly. And I'm remembering now because I just woke up and I wanNA tell her but there's no time she beats her wings and we take flight over the school the playground, the yard, the field, the buildings the entire Senate on compound will be played games and eight and saying and slept where we heard the adult screaming through the speakers of the wire the in house radio with its crackle and his leading us hear the sounds of people laughing. People crying people yelling people dancing a jazz band playing music the punk squad the mean teenagers with their cursing and cuff jeans getting punched in the face. If they talk back every week, one of them runs away and everybody gets so mad. Son of the old man, the leader talking about things we don't understand. He says he loves us, but he's always angry. And the bird. Were told to call her mom. flapping furiously her eyes locked in some faraway point as she clutches her chicks and we fly up over Tamales Bay with its streams draining into the Pacific, ocean the giant redwoods on the hillside, the big waves crashing against the rocks on the coast slowly breaking them into tiny pieces, fracturing them pulling them apart. Till. They're soft to the touch portable and broken easy to walk on. The. Place into a small plastic bag for tourist visiting with Sunburn ankles from some ancient city to the east. I just want one thing. In a chatroom people might know this is a memoir. This is not a book of fiction. So all we talk about today is about your life to make that clear at the top what would the consequences of leaving? It's not like you just walk out yeah they were. They were threatening to murder people who left they had stockpiled about a thousand rifles There was a goon squad called the Imperial Marines that Chuck Diederik, who's the leader of Sinn, and on had recruited and doing drills in the field, and this is you understand this is a place that started as a non violent society violence wasn't allowed at all and in devolved as called Stewart devolved. and so we were risking. Getting beat up we were risking getting found one did leave. We were always told there was just this refrain. The bad men are coming. You gotTA hide. We weren't. We weren't allowed outside that first year at all when we went to hide in Oakland and Berkeley we stayed inside because it was we were worried that the the bad men were gonNA come. So we we live we essentially lived on the run. For about a year year and a half before we eventually. You know went to Oregon which was sort of like our sanctuary was like Salem Oregon in the rain. Like nineteen eighty, one, the feeling was like the hippies lost. and. I wasn't hip. The kid I didn't know I was just trying to piece together and so is my brother. You know. But I think the feeling was Reagan as president and here's Reagan. who was like my mom's arch nemesis from those free speech movement at Berkeley because he was governor California and he's president now and it was like they lost then whole generation it all the high minded. Just there were still I think we forget how much in the Eighties The ghosts of Vietnam was still with us that there were still. So like early eighties, you still had so many vets walking around the streets and so many people were at for the horrors of that war were still very fresh and they were still very fresh in the American consciousness as well. So I, think there was just this feeling of defeat. And like it just didn't, it didn't work out all these high minded ideal sort of devolved into madness and now it was we were hiding away and. The bad men. Did come and you witness such a horrible thing sitting on your porch in the driveway with Phil Toss about Phil and yeah. Sorry Okay. Sorry about this Yeah it was. It was tough we. We moved to a house in Berkeley and we we weren't allowed outside And one day. Phil who you know I wouldn't say it was like a father figure but there weren't any man around and we had a single mom because our parents had split but he was this really nice man he was he was a anti nuclear weapon activists and he still like big activists these days who's trying to shut down the Diablo Canyon. A reactor and he m he lived with us and he was a friend they were friends and he was friends with us in his daughter was friends with us and who's nice man and I I'd always come out when he when he got home, you know and one of the days my brother finally warm. My mom down was allowed to play outside because we weren't generally to do that, and so he was across the street and my brother wasn't you know came home and His is orange VW bus like any good hippie. He had an orange VW bus and he parked the bus in the driveway and he got out in these two men walked and I didn't know what at the time what it was, but they had this flesh mass like you see in movies like bank robbers where I soon they were nylons or something, and they were holding these short batons. They weren't quite baseball about someone they might have been pipes I don't know they were black. And he got out, he smiled at me and they just walked up behind him started beating him and he fell on the ground. Then he started screaming our is lopped And They beat him into. A coma. And was, yeah, I, was on the Portuguese five feet in front of me my brother watch from across the street. And then once they were done one of them sort of straighten up and said worse Tony and mccown. And he didn't seem exhaust hiding behind a part of the porch and look across the street, and then my brother was with a group of kids and you know. They they didn't know his name so the and they didn't know my name 'cause our never allowed to play with it because browse locked in the in the inside unable to play. So then you know the neighbor lady came out and started screaming and everyone was just terrified in and then ambulance came in I mean demand left and then the ambulance came in and that's when we realized we had to we had to leave California I and sort of go somewhere else and we we ended up in Salem. Oregon. One of the striking things the goes throughout the book is your relationship with your mom and you had this way about you. From very young they. Try to please all all the time. Yeah I think the kids respond to stressful situations. In, different ways and so much of the book I try to write about this from the perspective of the child is trying to figure it out. I was trying to I realized about halfway through writing the book what I was really doing giving his childhood voice this child that never had us because no one ever asked us how we felt no one ever said, hey, maybe we should get these kids some therapy they left an orphanage they witnessed crazy violence they're terrified the traumatize. There was just we were treated sort of his accessories to all this and so in giving that voice. I realized how much I very early understood that that was sort of my role different kids take on different roles and families sometimes because of alcoholism sometimes it's you know it could be cancer poverty itself. Why kid becomes the super at one kid becomes the scapegoat one could becomes what's called the mascot and these things sort of predictable take on my brother was very much the the rebel scapegoat child that was just like he was there to cause trouble and very early on you. Not, just you. Spend on how to out. I'll told us about two years of my life in a headlock. Added up. But I think I was like Abu The supermarket aisle I'll try to rise above this. I'll take care of everyone would get up before dawn on make breakfast go spend three hours doing chores we raise rabbits for meat because we didn't have you know we lived on food stamps and government cheese and all that kind of stuff and we raise festivals and stuff so. I would get up when it was cold and the rabbit balls froze over whatever and be like eight years old out there for three hours, replacing all the water and then go to school and then come home and shop. The would because we've never heater we just had a stove a like a like a woodstove and and try to make sure my mom's okay and be sort of her her caretaker. She was severely depressed. She dealt dealt was crippling depression her whole life, and then try to keep my brother at bay, and of course, when I was writing the. Book and I was giving voice to my brother I. I had I kinda came to have a different understanding of 'cause at the time I would have set out. He was just kind of being a jerk and then he's so mad and just all grown up you so mad, he was always calling him out. He's like this is bullshit he would say that he was like ten years old. This is bullshit. What are we doing? We rabbits I mean hamburger meat and ice cream, and what is this? Why are we running from this and now I can go play. And you know at the time I think I resented it, and now now when I when I wrote it, I look back like this kid speaking truth this this is the one. This is the one kid that sees it clearly like and it really gave me a lot more. You know his his response probably was in some ways emotionally more healthy than than mine which was to try to pretend I was you know could could outrun it or outlasted or something. Your mom who you're always trying to please. Her sense of reality was. Well, I mean she had her own issues and dealt with her own sense of reality. You'd say to her hey, I'm hungry and she says, no, you're not you earlier you know and and. All this want to. Lead to run away. We're talking now age wise. Start around four Senate on. We're now what about age eleven? Ten Eleven. Yeah. My first step dad had left or died. We weren't sure which he was a good man but a severe alcoholic but just put a nice guy. He always take us fishing down by the Willamette. River those guerrilla and then the my second Stepdad you know there's this thing in memoir writing where you're always supposed to look for the good and care n people. You're writing and I tried to do that a lot with my brother and my mom or you know my dad or whatever where you if someone's presented to you that you have decoration with, you try to see what they're struggling with and right about that. You have to write from a place of love and I think the one person in my whole life it I don't feel any need to do about. Is My second step that right now was clear. What the literary of I don't know how you put it in literature that someone was just a jerk but is was the I wouldn't say he was like some monstrous violent persons much as he was a lot of time intimidating me and then one night know stand over me and he beat my dog and he threatened me in that and then one night of blew over he comics some names and then I called my mother some. Names, and then he got in the face and got my face and pin me down and he you know being and I got up and white my tears in got on my bike and I ran away it was late at night I was maybe ten years old and I went to the West Salem Bridge, which is where I. would spend with my step dad who was this warm he was a drunk he was great drunk. Kind drunk it was a fuzzy drunk. He was like, yeah. Okay. Trouble hold on a job but he was a good day. You know we watch cartoons and and he was also just a place of warmth for us in in a world that we didn't have a lot of that and so I went looking for him. That was yeah that's that's that night and then I assume we're we're introducing the song here is. I'd I'd love. Feuds Kanawha how I would park, which is the soundtrack We're GONNA play We're going to bring a Mimi from the airborne toxic event over as well, and she's going to sit with me and we're GONNA play the song coming out which is based on. That night everyone made me per se the wonderful talented Mimi Pichet shreds. and we're GONNA play a bit of a role. We can play all coming out which is the story of of that night. No to suited. The front. Tune Rah. Was Loan Rod you. Think of me. Runaway. On away this is Matt. To. Cease it come on. Come on oh come on. Come on. Now. On. A Now Come. Law. On hard nine. Have Beer on should turn out live from the front door. I'll be tuning. Guy Got. Twenty Bucks. Pocket. Mustache not afraid out show would. Just shadow of shadows It's. Mung. with. With. on In the Night Settles Watch. So you stand on stage. As a fee and She's Run suits and. Just the. Face Nah I Does urine so My US break. Break. Please break. Break. Off. With. Come come. On. Now. Now. Long. Gone. Monitor. I. I've had some questions in the chat room sort of about beginning just to think about like why right this? And You know and and how do you begin to do that? How do you? Think about your life and and the detail. Blew my mind talk about that. Is a good question. You my father died. About five years ago in my whole world fell apart and I was I became very depressed I hardly left the house for about nine months and everyone knows grief is sad I didn't understand how confusing grief could be I was baffled by it was like the laws of physics changed and I remember thinking like I don't understand a world that doesn't have my dad in it and so I initially I had read between the world to me on he coaches book, which is sort of the conceit of the book is that it's a letter to his son and I just thought here's a really. Powerful way to think about writing a as the as an or as it you're writing for an audience of a person I think that's the book I initially set out to write like a maybe like kind of like a letter, my father, and then as I got into it, I realized I wanted to write something else because I everytime I. got early. I tried to explain to myself why my father's death hit me so hard I had had led to new questions while he was the first person I ever trust that's why he missed. Okay. Well, why was he the first person? You just well see Osborne inordinate. Well. Okay. So then often was inside a coal. Okay. But also, and it was like he was his whole world that I I had to wrestle with. So I decided I was going to write from the perspective of my I starting at the place of my earliest memory, which is the debut left sin. And a lot of the early detail. A lot of what I did was I did a lot of world building. So members like the string like you start to pull it, and then you get more and more and more the more time you spend on a in some Tony Morrison as this wonderful idea that memories it's called remem remember he lives in places. If you go to a place, the memory is still there in the place where it happened. So I don't know if you've ever had the experience of going to like your childhood home absolutely have to, and then your awash and suddenly things you hadn't thought about twenty eight all your friends there and and. You can smell the food you can smell the you know the carpet you can it's, and then you remember not just that but entire things that happen in your life entire attitudes that you no longer have because you've groner because you've changed so I would do that I would go to different places that the book took place and I would just write down or you know memorialize into my a tape tape-recorded like everything I remembered, and then I'd go home and right around that until I had. A good you know usually was between twenty and forty pages per place. So there's like you know Salem Oregon and the house they're they're sending on there's Plato, raid the apartment there the house in Westchester various parts of my life and I would just go to these places and then write about them and then I would call contemporaries that were there as well and particularly an compare notes you know you WanNa make sure you're not the only member am I remembering this right how do you remember this? Try to make sure and sometimes people would like. Yeah. It's exactly how remembrance and things like No. That's not what happened what I I'm sure if you asked your mom. I mean the way you both looked at the world was so different that she would remember things very different than yes. Of course So I compared notes with people and then the what synthesizing particularly the early stuffing of the first couple chapters are written from the perspective of we and I got a lot of detail from those those few chapters mostly from my brother. He was a lot older than I was at that point. So between all those different events, it was like once I had the places then I could just in this was about six months before I put any apply wrote a single word of the book. I spent six months doing this and then. when I got into it then I could just right. I could think about the story I can think about how things are being said I can think about how I was bringing new people in new characters and so I didn't have to think so much about our what I remember about this guy had already done all that footwork and I could just say, Oh, this is taking place at the house embrace avenue. Let's open that document and then okay, that's the world. All right go. and that helped a lot. because. A lot of this book is it does a lot of things you know memoirs aren't supposed to do. I. Guess There's magical realism in the book there's an unreliable narrator say things that are patently untrue because I believe them when I was six years old I believe some of the lies I had been told an N. I wanted the reader to go on this journey with. Me and my feeling was that these things are usually considered kind of the province of fiction. But I felt that wasn't it wasn't necessary that we construct our identity around magical realism. That's why we have you know mythology. That's why we have religion. It's why we have all kinds of different ways in which we think about our lives in these in these ways we we are oftentimes. Unreliable narrators of our own experience. So I thought you know, why can't I put these memoir? Why can't I I'm used these ideas to probe how I came to understand what had happened and who I was and and to let the reader on this journey with me because that's what it was. It was a journey of discovering what was real and what wasn't when I. Had started from a place where I had been told a lot of things that just turned out to not be true and I later realized this is what happens to a lot of traumatised children that they start in a place where no one's really listening to them and they're being told lies in half the slowly you know figure out on the things that are that are true. There was A. Moment euro or a runner your Your family comes to watch you in a race. That you win. A but your motivation. Is. Not Be like you're father. Yeah. You talk about this empty chair. And not only his failures are your motivation to success, but you can't you can't tell them. Something deeply striking about that. Yeah. there. There was a there was a time when we didn't really know our dad very well I. Remember he came to see me my six birthday in those. That's like when I really remember my relationship with him starting we'd seen each other before that seem centered on stuff but. and he was this mythological figure to us. He was like you know Clint Eastwood Meets, James Dean he was just this. We saw him. You know he'd pick your I mean what? What he looked like how he dressed he had. This big Jim Croce Mustache in a wife Roe. And you know he he only made it to like eighth grade before he started. You know what he calls you know basic mischief. But what was really like he got he was involved in a life of crime until he was about twenty, five, twenty six and you know they would steal cars and run bad credit card. Numbers and sell drugs and stuff, and and whenever any tell us about it. He was never like shy about telling us about his time in prisoners time as a professional criminal and we'd be like Dad, was it Kinda like organized crime was just like Gordon me like? This organized. We were too high to be organized. And that's how he was he was warm and he was funny and he and he was clean by the way to unlike most people who had that experts, he actually did clean up and he turned it around in my entire life. He never got so much as a parking ticket. So this is all just kind of something we knew about his past nothing we experienced, but we experienced was this wise man who'd seen everything? But you're literally running from that past of his got older. So as a child I worshipped I, it was just like that's the province children. My Dad can beat up your dad, my doctor ask your dad or whatever. You Know My dad at the coolest life ever, and then by high school I decided I was very important for me to go to college I wanted to get out I, want it to be the. Get to the next level in my life. I was a standout athlete and it was very dedicated student in it was an and that world suddenly switched and then I kind of an in the sat prep world. In the you know a AP class world I resented he couldn't help me with my homework and the fact that he had gone to prison my all the kids in my classes are their their parents were engineers and doctors and lawyers and my dad it felt like this mark of shame. That my dad had been to prison. My Dad couldn't help me with these things and I and I started to feel ashamed of it and so when I ran I would always have this image as a distance runner and a lot of what you do is you have to fight the fatigue and the pain and push through it and there's a lot of toughness with distance runners in my way of doing that was I would picture my dad and my brother and my brother was also a big rebel sitting in two chairs and then there'd be this third chair was empty net chose for me and it was like in jail cell and that's where I was going to end up. And it would literally drive me to the point. I was so angry where I just I want I don't WanNa be like you don't WanNa be like you which, of course then was also complicated by the fact that he was a lovely man and you know I I i. he was a kind warmhearted everyone. Love my dad everyone I the kids on the street. Loved my dad the family is funny and so I had a lot of mixed feelings about it because he was the place of warmth for my brother and I and affection and kindness and wisdom, and the time is I wanted to sort of blaze my own path and I felt like I was trapped by his his choices. You WanNa bring me back in you. WanNa 'cause. Tells about all at once. Well, we set up I'll wants is a song about the world changing all all of a sudden and sometimes that can be the death of personally important to you, and sometimes it could be let's just say a massive pandemic. And you're suddenly living in a new world that you didn't think that he would be living. We were. With time. Nameless in the. House of a mother. Father Anka. In the word wait for US thousand years in the crush of. Fearless and A Nothing. Then we. To. In the. Red Become. something. We never be. We were surprised. By the ninth. inning come. Mass. They just stood all that time. Then it comes. In In the. would. Someone. Ban. Show. So the Maybe Shows. Hope it'll be okay. We. Are. Just. Be Some. Looking down. On the day we. To each other. And? We'll take a quick break be right back. I'm talking with Mikhail Joe layabout his memoir Hollywood Park. There's also an album by his band the airborne toxic event also called Hollywood park, and we're return a minute and you're listening to all songs considered from NPR music. This message comes from NPR sponsor better help better help offers licensed professional counselors who specialize in issues such as isolation, depression, stress, anxiety, and more connect with your professional counselor in a safe and private online environment. When you need professional help get help at your own time and your own pace schedule, secure video or sessions, plus chat and text with your therapist. VISIT BETTER HELP DOT com slash songs to learn more and get ten percent off your first month. It's all songs considered I'm Bob Boylan I'm talking with Mikhail. Joe layabout his book Hollywood Park. It's a memoir also followed up by an album and a quick note that you can watch this whole performance and conversation online. There's a link at the all songs considered site. Tell someone our youtube channel, the NPR Music Youtube Channel. So. Let's talk about Jake. Jake. And, your your discovery of Robert Smith Your discovery of Music So I, there was a new kid from Nebraska that came to our class when I was in fifth grade and you ask them where. Nebraska, our side. And he walked into the class and first of all, he was eleven years old. At six foot three already. So he was this giant you know we were all these normal sized little kids and he was already sixty and he was sitting in this desk and behind me reading a Hardy Boys Book and my teacher asked me to take him under my wing comes to be you know. So I I, you know I struck up a conversation. We started chatting as you guys kids do. So you hear what you do and you know and and then out of nowhere he's like he swore in Farley he said, you know I don't know man we do a lot of bullshit and I was like, Oh, this test. result. Oh so swell could swear and I was like, yeah man there's a lot of bullshit around here. Like, calligraphy and fractious bullshit other bullshit like that. So we went to his house and he he was living in a similar situation government cheese and food stamps and whatnot and had some struggles with his own parents and so he brought he brings me upstairs in east like I got to play something for you we to his room and he puts his record on and it sounds like these guitars that are under water and there's this warble of voice and I didn't know you know what it was. And it turned out to be the head on the door by the cure and I I liked it i. he made I think he made me some mix tapes and cure mix tapes from all the different records and. I didn't understand how these songs could simultaneously feel so happy and so sad and it felt so different from you know. So much of the music that was popular pop music at the time was about winning. It was about how hard Kenya party you know how bad Asir you if it's you know whatever and nobody was writing songs well, losers and we were losers and I don't I don't mean to say we were like total losers at like were screw ups right? We we had. Something you could identify with wasn't in the the everyday culture because right? Yeah and it felt like it made it okay to feel messed up because we felt messed up a lot of the time and it was okay and it was like a relief and it was also incidentally this gateway as. It was like a door we walk through we're just these white trash kids and rainy. Salem Oregon, and here's these people and they're they're from this place. England and they're making this amazing music. That's about how sad they are and how screwed up they feel angry they can be in there's anguish and I think it was the smiths and it was you know the Cure and David Bowie and things like that and and it was like it was artistic. It was clever and it was sarcasm and it just made the pop music or the heavy metal or the everything just kind of sound like we were no longer interested in we. It was an it felt like finding like minded souls. I guess it was like we were felt like. A relief. There was a relief to it. All to being in felt like being seen like this is our music. This is who were always on everywhere we went. We get up one of those like cassettes dual. Kazakhs. Twenty batteries will walk through the woods you know playing loud bomb. You're the one. That was ruined. And just we like feeling. UNLOVABLE And you're about how old is was yeah like. preteens let's say eleven to thirteen or so like this this is what we in. This is what we did constantly jake everywhere we went we just and we assessed with David Bowie. We are obsessed with Morrissey in our minds more segalla girls. More. At that age as important. But I talked about picking up the guitar for the first time we're how what's the distance between finding the cure so to speak and and then picking up that guitar from your another two years went by, and at that point I I'd moved to Los Angeles and I had a friend who had acoustic guitar. My friend drew in Westchester Los Angeles California Westchester kind of the suburb and we went from living with my mom which was very difficult to living with my dad and my mom Bonnie which she's my step. Mom. But we don't use the S. Word and my family is you know she was also my caretaker in cinema. which is a whole thing that would I talk about a lot in the book but she's she's essentially been a mom to me since I was six months old so I just Karma So and they were they were great parents and there was finally some room to breathe air was finally some sense like, okay. People care people we have. We can just be the kids that we wanted there's food to eat. There's not this constant crisis happening So my friend Andrew had a guitar. It was like an Acoustic Guitar and what's that Smith's line? You know I thought if you had an exclusive Qatar you were protesting. I think of the topic. The first time I saw a guitar like, what is he a cowboy? Electric Guitars enroll, you know see like a Jaguar or something, but then you hear a song from a cure, your cords. And it takes you to play. Yeah and he played a few I think he played a Smith Song and then he played at Bowie song and the life on Mars and then and now the songs in the room. It was this conjuring. There's something magical about where it was like he play and suddenly we weren't. You know just two guys sitting around in a room and some sleepy suburb we were with these big ideas. You know suddenly we were part of this world, and so it felt like this conjuring in from that moment on I wanted to conjure things too and I wanted to learn to play guitar wanted to learn to write songs I I was never one of these. Guys that learned all the licks you know those guys that can just Wale in the closet and player I just didn't care. I learned songs from artists that I like and then I wrote my own songs from almost from the jump. I knew that this was an instrument. That's what his purpose was was to help me you know right about. How screwed up by. The time. But. To also then participate in that same world that David. Bowie and Robert Smith and Morrissey and people like that. They were in the room with us they know and. And the weirdest part I think well. You became a music journalist. A very bad one well, I. I wish your editor. For a short time which is how we met about seventeen eighteen years ago. You did a couple of Jesus for all things considered I was the director of the show back then. You are in a bad music journalist. How will thank you? CARE. What music journalist because I didn't care about the journalism I would interview my heroes and ask them how they wrote songs, and then I tried to figure out a way to like turn it into an article I. Knew I had to write. But. All. They really cared about was like meeting different and different people and ask them how they how they wrote the songs that I loved and got a lot of rape. I had a great conversation with Tom Waits. With Lou. Reed with Stephen Malcolm S with You know also Robert Smith and and David Bowie got to meet, which is I mean just think about that I mean. I do the. Things that we all can't imagine that can happen to us in our lives. Right, you're this kid who finds the cure starts strumming a guitar and that not so many years later you're in a room with David, Bowie and Robertson talk about the advice. Let's say Robert Smith given then with David Bowie. Of Things have they told Robert Smith was Um querulous. Strange, in every every bit as Robert Smith as you at hope, he would be you know. Almost worried with someone like Robert. Smith that if you meet him, he's just GonNa. Be like. How are you and just like? Damnit, he's normal and. Allow. It sorta strange and wonderful in and really bright and we're in this hotel room. We had like a it was one of these horrible industry listening parties where like the label is there and different journalists and and he's discovered gotta worse things. were. Journalists. Don't listen to the music. They're they talk. It's. Everyone's talking over the record in Robert Smith is standing there stiff as a board in the corner while everyone just kind of his in this high in cocktail party talking I was like this is a weird So he and I was mad about it. So we got drunk together and it was like I mean come on a my like my heart Mike your loving heart to to have this three hour I the three hour conversation in a hotel room with Robert Smith, what we just drank a bunch of beer talked about our lives and. Eventually, we got I told him I wanted to write songs, and that this is all our isn't I opened up about like you know I'm just trying to learn and. The biggest piece of advice. He gave me a few pieces of advice but the big piece of advice as he's like don't be normal don't worry what you're writing. Sounds strange don't try to write with other people feel don't try to write which you think other people are feeling right about precisely the contradictions that you are going through right about if you feel messed up the very specific flavor of what that is in your own mind as you personally understand it and don't worry about army norm I think the way he said it was normal is everything I hate about life which you know he's sort of like he lives that idea. The idea of writing about your contradictions can you give be and everyone just a little about what that means to you and I don't know if there's any songs that that fits into the people with no I know we wanna play a graveyard near the house. I don't know if it leads can lead. US, why don't I lead into graveyard and we'll talk about that. So the graveyard near the house is a really good example of a song I started to. Write about the idea of true love from this of knowing you know you're GonNa die someday also knowing that as you get older are the relationship gets older. You know love often fades and people fade buys face a what. What is love look like if you're really being honest and I I was really interested in not shirking from the challenges of that idea and of course, for me I've been in therapy and I'd seen a therapist about having been born in. Raised in an orphanage in what you what you end up with his descrip- alling fear of closeness at the same time as you have this incredibly strong need for it. So both those things kind of simultaneously exist inside you when you've been let's say abandoned at an early age how I think the kids from senator non experienced it and and you know we thought I think for me I thought I emerged unscathed because I was always so I'm going to be Upbeat I'm GonNa try and achieve things, and then what where it kind of came to a head for me was I had a real hard time with relationships for a lot. A lot of years because because of that, and so I wanted to write about that Robert Smith's words were just always echoing my head of just write about the contradictions you understand right about your personal emotional experience and don't just give me like all you need is love unless that's how you feel. But. That isn't how I feel at all like this huge number of complex things about about it. So when Mimi and on, we're going to give you a little bit of A. Or Olive the graveyard the graveyard near the house. The other day when we were welcomed by the graveyard near the house, you asked me if I. Leave. And if life in love both fades. predictively, we've made us ourselves kind the Dick. and. So I pictured us like corpses lying side-by-side visas in some dock only. Rebecca. We looked so silly de decomposed have turned the. In tattered clothes probably look just By by. This dog innocence I can't pretend. What is going to happen next? You know. About. Do you. Left me you wonder if people ever know each. Just stumble around like strangers in the. Casino Times seem so strange to me I must seem strange to you like to actors. Did you memorize your lines because I did his the by where I get so mad today you. Can't forget you. And you get so quiet now and you seem. Like a last. Shot. Moment. dog-eared it isn't. Going to happen next. You have no idea about me. Yeah no I dea bow. This something time and. To the ground moment passed. then. It seems a little less. were. Oh. Oh. I'm just trying to write it. down. Sons and you write letters we toddler to insert as. Talk in read and lavish sleep bed nine to get. You. Sometimes. See the thoughts blasts across you is they said Thailand, will you be kind? Will you be a good man stay behind? It. All. In the letters, all pass through my head with the worst said I was told. About the fading flesh of life and love failures. Can List. It's crippling fear like I'm reading from. All. The fireworks love still. I will carry you with me every year. If you die before I die odd name out of the sky. Fall, asleep. and. Dream. Way. Some say it's better to move on and let life just carry on and maybe. Instill, still, try. Whether. Loser. It's better A. View. Our. Love Our love you to. Ta. So, good together. Yeah. She's the one is lots. Lots of applause in the chat room. Thank you for everybody in Chat Room. Today. To different brains, it seemed to me. are needed to. Write the words you put into this beautiful book, and then another complete other brain that. Only, a few of us in life have is the one to be a right songs. Be Able to connect with people with your songwriting. Top at the relationship between the songs for the album. Hollywood park. And the book. So obviously book started I I would imagine yeah, I. Was Writing The book after my father died and. I was just so in this world emotionally that I was writing from in childhood world, some of the songs are written from the perspective of myself as a young child. You know the anger that I felt of living on the run or the fear felt from running away or all the different times Senate on people had tried to escape in the way that children have been ignored and. a lot about my father's life before I was born as well because I spent a lot of time thinking about that once he died as people do and I guess if I'm being totally honest there was there was a return to something. As a band, we'd had a lot of time on the road when when when you become a professional musician, I hate that term because we're not very professional about anything. You know but there's always pressure on you and people want you to follow these arcane rules of songwriting or whatever. There's always like some asshole. Going, like right hit get. Any like Wang Yang Nineteen eighty-one. Can you write me one of those hits I want the title Song to be downbeat of the first course. GimMe. A minor key and then you know an out zero you know and I think if I'm being honest I think a lot of that was in my head for years because I felt I don't know maybe like is there something intoxicating about it something intoxicating but having success particularly music because you go on tour and people clap and blushing it's the way you make your living. While my dad I suddenly just needed music again, the way I had when I was a kid or the way I had when was. First starting out. So there was a return to something. There was this sense I don't give a shit. About you know we'd been dropped by our record label and I knew Anna was leaving the band and I just didn't give a shit about any of that anymore and I just wanted to write from the heart I wanted to write the songs were weird and they didn't have courses or if there wasn't any hoax because I just probably know hoax and if there wasn't, you know I didn't catch wanted to capture with us going through I wanted there to be a record of what what was going through. Eh. Scott. Fitzgerald has this thing that the the living a scholastic life and artistic life is different than leading. You know life that isn't in the arts You just leave a record you know or if you're musician, you make and and that's really where I was coming from I wanted to capture this moment and I've met with the band and we talked about it and we were just like all right. There's just kind of the four of US versus the world it's Adrian and Stephen Darren and it was like You know. Let's just go make something. We love you know for all the reasons we love music. Let's not make a record for anyone but ourselves let's not make a record for anything that's based on anything but you know the ways in which we live rock and roll and was the sense of like we didn't know was going to happen we. Didn't have a deal with an avenue. I don't know we just kind of locked ourselves in rooms in and did it and it felt like it was giving life to these stories to some extent I think all the all new my dad too, and there was a sense of honoring him. I'm just wind this thing right and I think some of the. Songs, I was writing. I was writing because I knew he would like them. It's a little more classify and other records are records go maybe from postponed a forward but we've never really been like in this record I think almost there's almost a sense of classic rock and parts of it and I think it's partially 'cause my dad loved Classic Rock. I. was trying to just write these things that I knew that would conjure his spirit and would be good and great for the reasons he loved music and and it was it was. So like I it was too big to care about outcomes if that makes any sense. Yeah both writing the book and writing the music, help you as a human understand your. Your faults and You have a successful bluff and. Ran Away, from so many and so many. Ran. Away from you and I mean, it was sort of a full circle moment that happened when so my brother and I while I was becoming a musician after I stopped being music journalists in started the band, which by the way, a Bob told me to do I. Can you explain that to? Me I'd done some pieces format NPR and he I said Bob I want to read I am thinking of starting a band but I'm not sure because my writing crews going pretty well any in Bob said, you can always right go to her. That's fine. Writing later I didn't remember that at all. Before tiny desk and all the ways that Bob is gone onto, put his imprint on the entire music world in we were just kind of two guys that love music and we were talking about and is like I don't know what to do. Scared to go take this big leap and Bob was go take the leap man. You're a good writer you couch right you'll come back to it. If you need to go take the leap, who's Great Advice Bob Thank you, I'm proud of you. So. While I was doing that my brother had a sort of deep into addiction and eventually found himself after years of drinking on. And then eventually to heroin and. I was very scared when he when he finally disclosed his sort of full addiction to me and we we took him to to rehab any dried out. You know I don't want to give too much away from the book but his story is so incredible deed and I would go to these AA meetings and those you know anything about program I'm not a program person. Really? I also watch my brother share and some of the best storytellers in the world they're not doing ted talks they're not on. Public Radio there at an AA meeting, you don't tell the story they know how to do a beginning a middle and then they ought to tell a joke these people are story toes. by the way, ca is the best stories but anyways And I remember just watching my brother had the sort of peace of mind and had come come to terms with a lot of sort of his demons and I and here I am having finally some big success in my life feeling. So lost in. Know, the basics of love can't have relationship. I'm not good at it and I didn't know why and so You know there's this idea that rock and roll conceive you. You know there's this there's this peripatetic sense you go on the road and you know you're just GonNa live out your dreams on this bus and be married to the road and I made that decision for this May I this is what I do and you know and then I sort of realize it was just kind of a cover for the fact that US out scared to face you know what was maybe not. What was broken myself and it was hard to write about this too because you know it it as a person who always wants to come off as larger than life it's it's hard to admit you know struggling us that's struggling there for Awhile Babo, some dark dark stuff in in in I. It's hard to feel like he can't change I had tried to change so many different ways you know you you call a friend and you try to work it out. You still still can't change you. You use whispered into a quiet here at dawn in in you still can't change and you write a song about it. You steep it in like metaphor irony, you your volume of your voice at some ungodly levelness thousands of people that are now and you're still stuck as the same person in your head and in your personal life. and. You can't change. So the day came. When I'd had enough and I walked into the therapist office is a sunny little day I think culver city and. I walked into this really warm sort of British man with these red cheeks sitting across from me and he said, why are you here already wanted seek therapy and I said? Without missing a beat I said I WANNA be able to fall in love. I. And I know I have to change? And that was hard. It was hard to admit that that like you WanNa feel like a victim because we were victims as children we were victims we were we were abused beaten ignored and neglected and put in an orphanage and. Man, there was Holloway's and when you when you have that perspective about yourself, you think I above it and I ended up with a scholarship to Stanford like I. I like really kind of felt saw myself as like I transgressed all of this, I got out. And then you realize no, you didn't get out and then now you're responsible for your own changing your own self and to admit that I had shortcomings in that I was bad at released. That was that was hard but I really wanted to follow and I wanted to get married and I wanted to do all those sorts of things and so five years on the couch on a twice a week for five years Bob I. I did and I write. About this in the book about learning the landscape your mind it's hard. It's painful is uncomfortable. You don't have to look at parts yourself. You don't WanNa look at you have to sit with sadness or grief for shame or these uncomfortable things that you don't want to sit with, and after a while you start to get to know yourself and you start to make new decisions and then eventually in my case I think I felt like I was ready to fall that. And my wife and you have and and infecting I point out that there's a hand-drawn NPR logo. Above your book tell us about that. My son made that might three year olds on a new. The daddy was going to be doing a big NPR thing today. So you had a little help from, but those those that was his contribution and boy I you know we have two kids. Now I've three year old and a five month old and it's a just you know becoming a father just It was like I spent so many years like I was on the outside looking in either in this kind of lake near do well, you know married to the road conway or just as this kind of orphan kid that was always looking at families wondering if. I was ever going to have that and just have a son was just so much blinding Choi. Now my daughter smile and look at me, and it just brings this blinding piece enjoying this feeling of of warmth in to know what that requires of me is you know that I continue to to stay aware of my shortcomings and be able to be a good husband and a good father, a good friend and a good son and a good brother that you learn those lessons and a lot of those lessons I learned in therapy and some of them were sitting there right out in the open that I learned from my dad. from from Bonnie's well I'm Bonnie and so. I'd say that like by the time he had died I was ready and We he was very sick for awhile and towards the end of his life, it was kind of funny situations we knew he was going to go as sometimes happens with people who are very sick in the modern world you kind of know make within the week. So. We've all gone to the hospital where at Cedars Sinai and I walk in and there's my dad and he's laying in the bed and he's got you know tubes in his arm and he's got one in his neck because he's very sick and he's so small and so FRA-. And I'd started dating my wife at that point but we're just dating and I said Hey dad and he said I see hey, and he's kind of coming out of conscious because of the morphine and I said I have something i WanNa tell you. He said, what's that I said I'm going to ask her to marry me. Is He really liked my wife for the first time. We met her he said you should marry that. which he was right and he saw that's great and then he kinda paused any any looked up at me. And he said don't. And I was confused for minute I say is he questioning marriages? You questioning my choices it the morphine. Any sort of correct smile and he put his hand, my cheek and he said. Don't fuck it up. And those. Those last words those the last conversation that. We ever had and that's my dad. Know is is exactly. He knows me well enough to know that's what I needed to hear. He sorted joking with me and he's wise and loving all at the same time. That's that's who he was. So you know a lot of my life was spent admiring him running away from him and then eventually wanting very much to have that same warm center, my heart he had. That despite you know all the years that time he got he was in Chino, presenter. He'd he'd gotten out and. He stay at the racetrack, which is what why Hollywood park is named for. We would spend a lot of long afternoons through through the years at Hollywood park. You went there when he got the day he got out of prison he took a greyhound bus and shot dyson the back in one fourteen. Horse all one arse and you take you. And then kid he would take me and then I grew up I learned fractions at Hollywood park and it was kind of our place. That's where our father son bond happened was. We would go to date races him Humid Shady Friends Hey Jimmy teaching them to family business. A. And here are these little toe head kids with our like dad with this cool cafe jacket, his cowboy boots and his like kind of swagger. Double Rim, Romance and I know you brought to the studio? Because we're talking about Hollywood park This is actually a sign that I stole from Hollywood Park Bridge, closed down. Your Alaska they they actually destroyed the grandstand three weeks after my father died it was always a big blazing metaphor. For me on Mike's hiding some of the thing you want to read it to us or. Says when wagering please indicate the track name race number also please check your tickets and money before leaving the window. So this is what you would see if you waited in Hollywood park to to make a bet and so I checked it a keep steak and keep saying this. This was above my desk is I was writing the book. and. Then my wife likes to get these great old brochures They're like old Hollywood park racetrack in. Brochures from back in the day has all its arcane language and all these great little drawings of people horse racing. My Dad loved today the races and. You know there was always a sense that we were safe there and I'll I always knew it would be the title of the Book I was not the Title Record Iowa as the place felt magic in the fact that he went there every Saturday and then when he died, they shut it down and it just it felt like here's this metaphor this placing an aunt exist anymore it was almost like I felt like we invented like it it could only exist with him alive if he's not only I've. used. It why why would it exists and a lot of things feel that way to me now they're like these big intricate structures. In your life that become these big intricate memories and it's not something I think I understood it fifteen that the loss of people. Is So profound that you you. You create entire worlds. Where you can talk to them in your mind and I still talk to my dad almost every single day and so one of the great parts about writing the book and the record was I got to honor him but also got to be with him. I got to hang out with them. I got to ask him a lot of questions about the story I got to here in my head like what what is answer was did you ever get the band? Oh He loved the band. Are you kidding me? He Thought When he saw the last show he went to was at the Greek we played the Greek theater in l. a. and like he wanted me. You want me to bring him onstage. Wearing who's GONNA, Sing. And you know I, wish I had I had to. Come on you know we can't be doing that. You know I'm going to big rock band whatever. I if I could go back and do it again i. Would it's once how would have made his whole life you love and didn't have a good voice he had like a baritone voice and. Beautiful He loved the ban though he I think to some extent, he couldn't quite relate to my very academe side, the party that was like the scam on winner. Yeah. They went to Stanford and had all this sort of academic accolades and stuff. But then when I was like `I, banning all that around the time you and I talk I was like I'm leaving all the NPR stuff in the music journalism in the fiction writing I've been doing I'm going to start a band and everyone thought I was nuts and my dad was like go for it. He loved I think he does love having a son that was going to play rock and Roll I. Wish you could have heard the song when you take us out. Thank you for doing this and. This book I don't cry too much but thinking about this book and your story, it's so beautiful and. I listen to the audio book audiobook person. So I hear you telling me the story. It's a beautiful way to experience it but in any way you for those of you. Who are in the chat room haven't touched this book or maybe just read the first chapter you know store and Go forward and and enjoy it and Mikhail. Thanks for doing this it. This is not just about this book is not just about you think it. Certainly got me thinking about my life and. I think it will do that for many so. I really appreciate you. You have in us here today. Bob and and thank you. Thank you so much for all the good advice and her all. A lot of us that feel really happy for what you've done for the news growth and giving a voice to artists that aren't necessarily wouldn't wouldn't have the platforms they had. So you you've been a good guy for a lot of us for a long time. So thank you for the front. Bring back, Mimi, and close out. Take care of we'll go out on Hollywood, Park Seven. Five A. was known but burned in my. Veins weakness. A. Fourteen Made on. Raffarin. You. Elated on third because he was do. Do. Todd live. Uh. Names. This guy. Watching this. THERALAC I was ready to. Win The. Race. The Fifteen years. Live in a room with my heart on my sleeve and throat dry from even the were. Can Shy. You can. We love US though forces thunder. Had A to Sky Horses. through the. Toward Down, there was a in sound and. Our now she's then. Last. Only. The wreckage. Still on. There goes. The stood. Uh. Where do we go? Voices. Concrete an milking. Staff from. Miles and miles of grace. Still. corna malls, all the cameras were. Yeah wounded is lucky. Or if you just get. The brass, the admission. In fifty news. Dream of this small man firm. Tired. From lifting. From. Around. This time that out. Never claimed. This. Courses that. WOULD BE BACK Stand. y'All so much for joining us.

NPR Bob Boylan Robert Smith Tony Morrison Hollywood park US Tom Waits David Bowie Berkeley NPR music Mikhail Joe heroin Cure California Salem Oregon Robert Smith Jake Senate
EP 112 Nick Sotelo Transitioning To Your Entrepreneurial Dream

Dark Horse Entrepreneur

56:32 min | 4 d ago

EP 112 Nick Sotelo Transitioning To Your Entrepreneurial Dream

"How can you transition into your entrepreneurial dream from where you are now. Stay tuned to find out. Okay here's the question. How are we dark horses. The ones everyone is betting against the ones they don't expect to win place or even show on track and they'll even laugh on us. We talk about trying. How do we show the world greatness and triumph. Come while that's the question and this podcast will give you the answers. This is the dark force entrepreneur. Tracey bregman darkhorse friends and family. Welcome back to your weekly dose of transitioning to your entrepreneurial dream learning. I'm your darkhorse host tracey bregman. And you well my friends that is infinitely more important. You are driven entrepreneur or one in the making either way. You're here because you're ready to start restart kick start a start living up with some great marketing personal or business results in order to build that beautiful business of yours into the empire absolutely deserves to be who that another big episode for you today today. Nick sedillo shares boat. How both he and his wife transitioned from both of them. Being six figure earners in their corporate careers to their entrepreneurial. Dreams plus i'm gonna let you in next week's interview episode guests who went from freelance consulting career to creating businesses it provides top nut services to the likes of pixar. Now i know you guys are enjoying this and i want you to come jam with us on a more personal level so come on over to the. The facebook group go to facebook dot com internet. Search bar up there type in dark horse tribe and come on in there and ask your questions drop. Your knowledge commend your and share with the other driven entrepreneurs debtor in group and that are joining the group as we speak and then of course be sure to stop by dark horse. Schooling dot com incentive for a newsletter. We'll be dropping all kinds of extra goodies Things like the thirty five Entrepreneur productivity hacks. The success of entrepreneurship plus from some new goodies. That are on the horizon. Here that will not be aired here on the podcast or shared in the facebook group. So you're going to be. I wanna be a part of that newsletter all right now as per usual the dark horse corrals chuck full of personal business and marketing g. o. l. d. spilling from every corner of the dark horse entrepreneur. H q so let's get to the starting gates and go all right my dirk horse friends and family. Today's guest is nick. Nick is a licensed marriage and family therapist. Who's turned life coach now knicks. Not your run of the mill. Life cooks at. Nick has a phd counseling. Education supervision in nick is a podcast host of the upgraded life. Where nick draws upon this advanced education is training and twenty years of experience to bring something that you can immediately apply in your life. And i know nick's going to bring something that we can immediately apply today nick. Welcome to the dark horse entrepreneur. How you doing brother doing excellent. Thank you so much for having me on the show at absolutely my pleasure. I know we had a couple of scheduling difficulties. We had to to muddle through but here we are And so i literally as you as. I was just telling i want to step back from the mike for a minute in hand stage over so you can tell your story the good the bad the road traveled to bring you to where you are today in love. Do what you do so much. All right sounds good. My story well. My story is one of those common yet uncommon. Here i am trying to be unique and special type of person so I'll start with You know i was. I was raised by my grandparents. Meaning that You know the people that brought me into this world. I'm we're young and they didn't have life quote unquote figured out. And that's kind of how i started in. His british raised an only child. And of course you know like you just told you audience. I do have a phd in counseling. So that's kind of where my mind goes. Turns chai child development. And how i got to where. I'm at so bear with me on that and so i was raised by my grandparents. They were Born in the early thirties so they were the depression era. Type people so You know. I wish that they were around now talk about. What are people talking about spanish flu. When you're little kids they would have been close enough to it. Right right But it was depression. Era type folks and so you know. We ate what most people would consider weird things like we would. We would take things out of the pantry put on a pot and turn it on. And that's what we ate dinner right and i was not so great of a student growing up until something clicked in middle school where i decided that if i guess if i'm going to have to go to school then i might as well do it as best as i could and kind of snapped into you. Know honors type principles. You know List for good things not for for the less not. They kept on a little drawer his desk. But you know the list. That got Pasted out in the hallways and whatnot but High school rolled through and i ended up being a pretty decent athlete. And you know finished with a three point nine eight. Gpa and Football basketball baseball. I went to a smaller school. So i was able to take advantage of that. And if you're an athlete you're at athlete didn't matter what sport you're you're in your on. I ain't rio Rolled into college. And i thought. I was gonna premed and i thought it was going to be a dentist and that was that was an expectation in my family that you know all the males went to school and all of me males achieved highly in school meaning. Bachelor's degree was just kind of the beginning. And there was an expectation that you would continue to go on. I guess filled that role you know capping it off with the phd. But i think you're good with acting i was. I was pre med But i went to school in the town that i was raised in so that was that salem oregon and i went to alliant university which meant i'm a townie. I guess that was a word that the the other students had for people like me and so still connected to all my old networks or existing networks and friends and when it came time to study or go out and hang out with my buds. While i picked to go out and hang out with my buds and come sophomore. I was put on academic probation on my first term That didn't last very long. I was able to snap out of it. I was premed with chemistry as my major was kind of the play and long story. Short ended up graduating with a psychology. Degree didn't do pre-med and was courted by a couple employees in the youth correction Or agency in in the state of oregon and they really kind of put their hooks into me. I applied and that was twenty one years ago that i started working in in youth corrections. It's the primary source of income. That i've had the only quote unquote career that i've known. I had jobs before that in college and whatnot syrian so today in starting the last probably three to four years corrections folks. Don't have the best outcomes when it comes to post career mortality statistics. Meaning that we the average corrections employees will die about five years after retirement. Yeah and i've seen it enough now. I've been around know twenty years. I've seen that. I've seen people not make it to retirement and i don't wanna be one of those types of statistics. Sure my wife kind of on a similar path with her career. We kind of looked at each other. She was an educator and we both looked at ourselves. Like we've been doing this for twenty years. We're not gonna do it for another twenty if that makes sense sheridan's though and we started thinking about how can we exit out of our careers and not burn the ships right. We're not we're not completely is going to cut ourselves from income. But how do we do that. In a way that makes sense you know financially we still have. We have still have kids in school. I have a junior and a seventh grader And so you know. It's not responsible to distill the cut loose of our primary income streams and then hope for the best right. We started looking at ways of. How can we build a different income streams and then systematically back out of our careers so my wife has been able to do that We were both six figure. Earners in our careers to keep that in mind. A lot of people have that goal of becoming a six figure earners and we were there right here that we we were there. We were realizing the cost of that as it as that was hooked to a employer employee dynamic right of developing other income. Streams is what made sense my wife Pushed forward with with her income stream that i fully support her in and part of me developing income. Streams is basically three fold one is. I am a licensed marriage and family therapist. I've operated private practice. Counseling since two thousand six and through my continued education. I have earned the ability and privilege to supervise other counselors as they're trying to become licensed in so part of what i do the best. Is i help people help counselors. That don't want bill insurance and they they wanna be in private practice. I don't wanna have to bother with insurance. So i show them how to do that. And it's kind of a unicorn within the the field that people don't think that you can do that. People think the goal is to grind away. Get licensed so you can finally billiards. Sure and i show people how to not do that. And then there's a lot of benefits and advantages to not billing insurance within still being able to have a thriving practice so That's a big income stream for me and another one is Doing that full pivot into becoming a life coach. When i specifically work with people it's Less mental health format and more and more life coach format. And there's a lot of reasons for that. But i'll be to say it's much more rewarding for me to work in the in the realm as life coach versus mental counselor. And this podcast. I think that that is another kind of building An income stream building towards it. and so. that's that's my story at this point in time. I'll let you dig into it as i heard. There's lots of golden pieces in there And i wanna come back to the whole bill insurance thing but let's let's go back to the beginning right so you're you're raised by your grandparents and i think that's kind of cool my My mom was actually raised by her grandma and her grandma lives in my great grandmother. Live to be an awesome age. I got to know her well into my teens. And her perspective on life I know molded. Some of my viewpoints is. I grew up. Listen to the amazing stories that she told no. She literally came across the united states from florence kansas to southern california as a young girl on a covered. And i'm like okay. You gotta tell me more about that right. You know they they. They got their plot of land they. The family themselves physically built their own home. tore down in their rebuilt. It later on and you just hear these kinds of stories and things. They did migrate. Grandma ended up being a made for the nixon family The parents of of richard nixon in whittier california for a period of time which obviously leverage itself into a number of reports in school for me right. But like like you were saying the the coming from that different era that thirty zero you learn a different perspective of of life and would you concur with that absolutely. You definitely have the just like you said the stories that they they have the towel and the way of life that they knew was just a little bit categorically different things that they had seen an inexperienced. I definitely wouldn't would agree with that. Yeah it was a. It seemed to me in that. It was more of a giving lifestyle. And that's how you got back you. You didn't take right. You weren't this out. They're taking from the land or taking from other people or taking site you were giving and then you're getting in return and i got a different perspective for mine term meaning that because of the the life especially that my grandmother lived she was really programming me to not necessarily take take But don't ever trust anyone because everyone is trying to get something from you okay. It'd be very careful about who you trust in in in what you give to whom because ultimately people are out to take advantage of you and unfortunately your family members are included in that category. And so that was. That was the message that i grew up with as a as a little child to be very suspicious. Very guarded very skeptical and that was based on her experience. Growing up happen absolutely. Yeah i can get that. I think if i look at some of the messages i got from mike Great grandparents or grandparents but my folks as well it was. Yeah there was that under underlying tony. Hey people will treat you how you give them permission to treat you right if you give them permission to keep taking from you they will if you say Stop right there. We we got a hold this bow. Then they'll learn and they'll move on to quote unquote easier targets right so okay so you had You you mentioned that your family for the males in the family had this high expectation I'll insert words into your mouth and say higher education right absolutely. Do you think that that was one of the driving. Factors behind your your scholastic achievements getting all the way to phd. It definitely was for master's degree. And when i look back on it I probably did that more out of dynamic to finally or maybe the continue to win favor with my definitely sought. They're not so much. phd by. I think she was still around by then. But i had made a tough decision Kind of mid two thousand would have been right around two thousand six is. There's a story there. Where i i started having less and less to do with with my family of origin and so so definitely. Phd was more of a decision that was made between my wife and myself. Okay nice but still. Obviously i think by that point you had years and years of schooling under your belt. It was almost a habit for you. I would imagine. Because i know a and i was just chatting with my wife earlier. And she's an in the education field as well and she's like yeah just to be a psychologist. You're going to all these hours of internships and that's just a get there. Then you've got a you know. Go into on might might. My head was spinning. The the pieces of information i didn't know so the corrections arena. That's that's got to be interesting. I know especially the the youth corrections in. I'm lucky enough. That the closest i got to okay. I'll be honest I was on the receiving side. Some use corrections okay. Let's be honest right But i think on the other side of that. The closest i really got to that was when i was in the public speaking. Arena down in in georgia One of the things i did. Oh god for longest time. Monthly or bimonthly is. I would go to the dekalb county a youth corrections corrections facility and just go. Give presentations you know. A know is went there with a personal development Kind of presentation but once they learned where i worked which was coca cola. That's all the questions rat right. And so i started going there and just sharing some of the behind the scenes coolness of the dakota world how they make the product how they market the product. And then you can leverage those relationships you build to help hopefully guide them say. Hey here's an opportunity over here and here's an opportunity over here so that you know god willing when they get out of the of the facility. They start making better choices. Tell me about about your row. Mindy as us corrections what you gained impact. You hopefully had Though i started when i was twenty one years old That was the minimum age at the time that you could work there. The i i came in. There is an era folks. That could you could start working at nineteen and so there were some folks that were like that that were there. But you know i was twenty one. Salem oregon is a small town i think. There is barely any small-time relatively considering there's about maybe two hundred thousand. Two hundred. Thirty thousand is the capital oregon but sits in between portland and eugene kind of the bigger cities and in the area an important self compared to seattle. La's pretty is small potatoes of portland metro. I don't think he even has two million. I think it's like in just under two million so compared to like seattle six million. Yeah no anymore but at least ten right and so being big. But i definitely didn't know What it was like to live you know in urban situations and lot of kids coming from portland and whatnot gotten in trouble It was a little bit of a culture shock You know. I was raised in the church in the christian church and was a i involved in youth group and those people that were courting me like i mentioned earlier were or folks that i knew from church and so there was a lot of culture shock you know and here i was Have never smoked. Never drank then. Have anybody pregnant. In went to school went to college. Played played sports. And when i walked onto the living unit There were five youth. We call him. You were older than i. What is an oregon. We can keep them tell their age twenty five. I'm twenty one guy in there is five that were that were older than i and so that was always kind of interesting mckenna hit here. I am telling them what to do. I've got the keys. I have the power. They weren't much older. I mean they they were you you know barely more the most was somebody would maybe like a year and a and a handful of months older than me huge spiritual there but so that was that was different In terms of what. What did i get myself into. And you know. And i didn't think that i would be sitting here. You know twenty one years after the fact talking about it. This might be a good stepping stone. And i might move onto something else. You're definitely a big culture shock. Going to dice. Yeah i can only imagine stepping into that. I know it was. It was also a culture sexuality. I wasn't behind the scenes but it was certainly a wake up moments. I want i know the first time i went there and gave the presentation. It was shortly after one of the big Shootings things that happened in the schools. So i'm dating myself here. Obviously and They had one of the lead suspects in this particular facility and he was in the audience. Walked out going. Oh my god. I'm glad i made some of the decisions. I made as a youth myself right. 'cause i could have been on the other side of this so it was it was it was interesting perspective to look at what could have been here. I was going okay. Thank god for that Okay so now you you've traveled these these awesome roads in that. You and your wife have made some choices like okay. We don't be traveling down this this road all the way because five years after we retire. Statistically it could be over right not going to be here. I would just call it like this. I'll be dead right So you start making decisions. Due to venture down the entrepreneurial pass good bed. Different right just is goes. Yo sounds like your wife is doing successful I know your your. Your podcast is taken off in your got. Some good things going on doing the life coach Cool for you a given your breasts of experience and knowledge but let's go down into the how does a coach help scenario absolutely and it's one of those things where you have to see it to believe it to a certain degree meaning. There's a lot of ways that you can become a coach. And that's one of the most one of the downfalls is one of the criticisms while anybody can become a coach it which is true a major the way the internet marketing works these days. Young on the interwebs and you can be hit up with all kinds of be certified to be yet become a coach. You know an eight week course over ninety seven dollars. You know things so twenty-seven right so so that is definitely a pathway into it. That's not everybody's pathway that definitely wasn't my pathway But i've been coach. I'm currently being coached remotely For some fitness goals of mine and In this list is focusing on that my own personal journey with fitness Again i was. I was an athlete in high school. I should have been an athlete in college. A different story and you know coming through children having children in my late twenties and not really modifying at my eating habits. You know very much at all. I wound up being. You know pretty damn close to fifty pounds overweight. That was you know about two years ago or at really kind of crested for me. And i was like enough is enough and so i spent like a year and a half on my own trying. This trying that Eating less in and moving more in reading books do i bought a couple. You know self Self driven in online programs to and nothing really work in a got to a point dory elissa still a goal of mine right and i still haven't move the needle so to speak in so i Took up somebody on an offer to Be coached them. In the in the rumba fitness and i've made incredible gains and just in. It's been since may as october so six months or something like that. So i've made incredible gains under under my coach Because number one. They know they're talking about Number two they know how to individualize it to not only what my goals are. But you know. I was able to take them. Show them pictures of this. I don't. I'm not going to jim. I'm not going to a fully decked out workout center. So i took him. Pictures of. This is what i have available to me to work out with. No problem will put together a program around that and the the accountability in the expertise around it. So what that means is one of the things that i learned that. I never read in a book. Never nobody ever told me. Is there's certain phases of of my fitness program. Were i actually will gain weight right. And so when i was trying to lose weight and i'm doing this. I'm eating the wham supposed to be. I'm hitting my workouts. I step on the scale. And i way more hell to the gar. Course entrepreneur podcast. You're right and so. I got to that frustration. That's the reason why you know prior to this was just a slight cycle of frustration. Why got that at that point again with my coach and i let him know. I said hey this is. This is crazy. You know i've been almost two weeks of E- eating a differently. I won't say restricted at felt restricted at time. It doesn't mean more and i step on the scale. I'm way more. Oh let's because you're you're in a muscle building as been doing these workouts in your body's kinda like what what's going on and so it's it's holding more water than what alert on. Oh so let's normal. Yes pretty normal. Oh okay right right. And if you don't know you don't know i know Interrupt you here for minute. My wife When we met. I was at that point. Your address like i had been watching my stuff. I've been feeling like crap going to crap in my in my life in eating accordingly right. And so i probably tanked on like you multiple digits of a extra weight. And she's in. She's a big fitness advocate license. In the whole nine yards and she never pushed it on but You know just out of habit in being with it's altered my eating pattern and then just the education. And i love working out with their right and over time as i. I got to that poems. Hey i'm losing. His wins will wait a minute and guinea back and gets you know no. No here's what's going on with your body you've been dropping fat and now you're getting that muscle that that from the workouts in might cool. I could deal with that. And then you start looking at the whistle device for magister registering your your body. Fat percentage okay. Now having that number. I'm a numbers geek. Right now. i have a different numbers is okay if my weight is here in this number is that that percentage i'm okay if the weight goes up and say that percentage of silica if they start changing i okay but yeah you're right if you don't know these things having someone who's got that expertise to share with you. Here's what's going on under the under the Under the hood of the car. So to speak so i mean you asked how. Coaching helps in so coaching helps Because you know if it's done right it's going to be individualized to to what your goals are and what your needs are and then there's going to be that accountability piece there as well. How did he know if your coach is good while the they ought to be able to point you to happy customers. I mean because coaching is a is can be cut throat. Because if you're a terrible coach that word is going to spread. And you're not going to be able to do much you're gonna have to turn to you you're gonna. That coach is gonna have to turn to internet marketing in order to to make it around that in. So it's really that ability to to know who you are. What is that you actually want in how to individualize that process to make sure that you're heading the goals that you have. That's that's that's a. That's a gym right. Dare right to point you to to happy customers. But hey here's a question right so I'm i'm talking to this guy. He's told me all right. I'll be his first customer. Where do we go with that. He can't put me to. Customers is just the individual expertise and help bring to the table absolutely I i would say that. The accountability piece is also multi-layered. And this is part of the reason why. I pivoted out of mental health counseling into coaching and so We know by research in in statistically that when you have more invested in your own process the more likely to follow through. And i'm not saying that just because you paid somebody x. Amount of dollars means that you're going to get results but you are far more likely to follow through We also know that the average person when they take up any kind of program doesn't matter what it is or it could be. You and i are both products of know. Zachary babcock to certain degrees and we always doing to help. People build their podcasts. Well that's a good example to most people only follow through about sixty percent of whatever. The thing is laid out in front of right so absolutely. I'm working with a coach where actually invested money in yourself puts more skin in the game so to speak and so so. That's one thing that i would tell somebody. The other thing is You know what is the person's background what what have they done for themselves. The you even though they may be their first customer so to speak for him. What have they been able to do for themselves. What have they been able to do for friends and family. There's a reason there should be a reason why. This person is out there Branding and marketing themselves as a coach. And it's you know it can be a little bit scary like in my domain. It's like i don't want to be the person that the surgeon has Patient number one for right behind the scenes. You're not patient. One surgeon has done a lot of things to get to that point. That coach should have done. Some observable quantifiable things. Take to get to that point that that's a that's a great point for anyone who's considering a coach who you know either. Admittedly our or not is newer to the game right. The there's there's the those questions you can obviously ask about. What have you done. What have you done for yourself. What have you done for you know. Maybe you were in corporate america and yet they could speak to the coaching. They gave their employees. Okay they were. They were paid from a different aspect but they were so still paid for that. Absolutely so in the coaching arena. That there for a minute for our entrepreneurs missing what you find is maybe you're Two part question answer either part both together Is your biggest struggle as a coach or in getting the the the clients in the door or both in answering that kind of for me specifically or or what people are talking about collectively out in. Let's start with you for specifically your experience right so my well part of it is just to some areas know what i do is a mindset coach what is mindset in so it's it can be difficult to put your message out so that people can say is this may or not me if it's me this look like something that i want to add to my life because he can't just go around saying hey tracy your mind sets off. You should work with me as a coach fight which could be very true. Could be hundred percent true right but most people don't go around looking at or or self a analyzing how their mindset is helping them or not. Driving is not. it's not a concept that is out there that most people are chewing on from day in and day out so it's learning learning It's really breaking down what it is that you do Very clearly in them being able to message that out in a way that the average person can actually stand and make the make that assessment for themselves. You know this is me If it is something that i want to add into my life and this is where people get too technical and what. They're trying to explain that they do. And how they do it in all these certifications that they have and blah blah blah blah blah. Right your your average client the ear that need your help doesn't care about any of those. That's a hard thing for people to wrap their mind around because we get trained and inundated the will show him your credentials and show him all right walls that you went to you. Know you're proud of all those accomplishments right. Your client doesn't care cares. Does this work. And can i do it right. And so i think messaging is is a big thing and i kind of Coit around with with different types of messaging. To the point. Where i again. I hired somebody to come. Help me with a message. Right and so. I'm a product of coaching. I believe in. Coaching is not me. You know Do my best to be out there. I've actually you know brought coaching into my life. And i've benefited minister. And there's a i think there there is yet another example that jeff you know if you're playing in the the arena. Do you have some coaching you. Because if you don't wait a minute do you believe in your own service. What's up absolutely it. So that's a good question to back to. What what what would you ask you. Ask your potential coach. How have they been coached. Yeah and how did it help. Absolutely i know. I've had god through the sousa forty forty years. How my god is dated myself. Pretty aggressively their forty plus years of In in and out of corporate america probably can't count on the as many fingers. How many coaches or mentors. I've had in different aspects. I mean If from every aspect to you know how to be a good boss how to be a good employees how to speak in public is all these different nuances that you learn through your Your careers in your life. You're like a guy i i need to. I need to smash down this learning curve. That's find someone who's done it already and bring them into my world in. Its for me. I i in as we're sharing was folks and i think you'll concur. It's not always a hey pay me. You know three hundred bucks a month. And i'll teach you. There are plenty of folks out there that you know in organizations or groups or associations that will be willing to mentor you just just as part of their growing opportunity as well. Yeah and. I think that that's a good point. I would concur with that. You know the the mentor thing and again. The average person isn't out there. You know trying to think you know man work at i level up in my life and who might be a mentor for me. And if even if they do even if they have that realization that i need to level up something in my life. Nobody wants to help. Nobody's going to write that. Mindset right there right but i. I would actually concurred but i i would say. The stakes are higher with mentoring than they are with coaching rebecca. Yeah the reason this is that nobody wants their time wasted right. And so if you're if you're gonna coach mentor in you. Have this idea that you're not going to have an exchange financial exchange or any kind of bartering arrangement in that this person who has what you want or as ben down a road you wanna travel If you're going to take their time. Yeah darn welby be need to be willing to execute on the knowledge that they're giving you because if you don't you know that that's insulting absolutely coach if you paid me in and you don't want to execute I'm gonna dig in there with you and figure out why you're not executing on it but at the end of the day i'm not going to be insulted. You paid me. It's your life type of deal. The mentor and they're giving up. I mean they're taking time away from their projects and their friends and their family to give you time. Dr welby Have to be ready to execute on whatever it is. They're giving you gotta shut up and listen in and do yeah. That's that's a that's a great point. I hadn't thought about that. That's an interesting angle. And there comes the the the point right if i'm if i'm the client or the men t and i have no skin in the game except for maybe insulting my mentor right. We know the. We know statistics. On that i i was. I was listening to something yesterday. Where they shared a statistic of all these online courses like you mentioned early. Hey get certified to be a coach for ninety seven dollars. Whatever but All these these coaching opportunities or all these digital products that are out there that about six percent of people go through the entirety of any given product. And it was like googling it. See if i can find numbers. I'm still looking so more to come on that. But i mean we're the product that was being talked about guy was saying. Hey i have this thousand dollar product. It was nine ninety seven he goes. I can say from from behind the scenes watching the numbers. Only about ten percent of the people are going all the way through the product and then he added in alive. Coaching call a weekly call for the the net. Like round three. He did of this product and it jumped to like seventy percent because now there. There's that accountability that one. Oh wine they. They had a coach that was answering those one off questions that maybe weren't answered in the product so that to me that helped reinforce that right coaching works. And especially if it's really aligned with the goals in case in this case you know the the digital product they were talking about So definitely if anyone considering a hey. I need a coach or if you're like i got. I'm struggling in this one area. I bet there's someone out there that can help you. Don't like nick like myself like new. The number for we we mentioned zach earlier writes the whole podcasting arena. There are folks doing these niche coaching areas. And they do it very most of it very reasonably for the for the effort. They're putting out that that you're getting from your life right. Saint myself all kinds of money by by flattening that learning curves. Now how i want and in the on the intake form. And i usually don't share this but you had this really cool thing in here about the the young living business to platnum. I see you have it on your shirt there. You wanna you wanna share a little bit about that. You're so young living as a as a network marketing company at tracy. I don't know if you're familiar with that format. Yup absolutely so Network marketing you know when we say the words sometimes you you get the sh. Yeah but it's an industry just like any other industry there's there's great people involved with it and then there's people involved with it and so But that's that is the income stream that my wife really latched into because of the product's helping our oldest son a major way. That's part of our story. And when she was becoming disillusioned with her career meaning that her the they kept reorganizing and it got to the point where she realized they were going to reorganize enforce her back into the classroom. Which is what she didn't wanna do in sale. She put faith in our in our own hands and said i want to build this business. i said okay. Let's do it and member back when i said we're both You know Six figure income earners day one of young living. We were one six figure income. That's like half your income is gone right right and But it taught us tatis us a lot about what we were doing with our money And we were able to maintain our lifestyle through that building phase We were functionally making half half the income that we're used to so it was. It was a huge. Learning phase wasn't easy now But that's that's what that is living in so We've been intentional business. Builders for the better part of three years ago approaching four years and about year two We we got to the point to where we played half of her income Through through young living and so And there's structure to it and you have to. Do you know so much monthly sales and and building your team structure in order to hit these ranks. So platinum is is the rank that We're going for right. Now we're we're manifesting you know golden gold. Ira around it's been. It's been a great ride young living in a company that's been around for for twenty plus years does about two billion dollars in sales every year in. So it's been around i. It's not going anywhere in. The product is just amazing in terms of helping people boost their health quotient in their lives in a variety of ways. Nice awesome awesome. Okay so let's let's loop back around here. Let me pause for something completely different. When it comes to your business so you're breaking out into entrepreneurial wet what is your Tell us about your biggest fear absolutely Yes there's there is fear associated with again. You know the play. It safe route is for us to still be in our careers right. I'm still in it to a certain degree In my wife was in a career in. That's what again the average person looks like. We've made it again. Not only where we you know. Single six figure income of double six figuring occurs right. But there's other things in it was that comes at a sacrifice when you when you're locked into an employer employee dynamic the level that she was is kind of the same level where i'm at where it's not forty hour you bring you bring work home with you. I i have twenty one direct reports at my work. I'm of Three critical state level programs in terms of of of youth than you. Just don't turn that off as a switch when you come home responding to emails. You're you're planning for meeting. And so that was coming at the sacrifice of being there in a way that we knew that we could for our own children in for my wife as a mom you know that was starting to eat soul a quite literally and so that was big. Part of k scary to do this is scary to leave my career. But you know we're survivors. What we're gonna make it in even you know and so that was kind of had to get over that hump of fears is now having the vision. It's getting your mindset right. it's also being grateful data day for the things that you do have and the time that she's been able to be here for our boys to send them off to school with a hot meal to be there when they get back to to to be able to do all those things i mean. There's no price that you can to then sign great so it can be scary How do you get over. the fear. Part of it will have a plan have a mission make sure that your mindset is set and know what you need to do every single day that if you were to commit to that every single that you can't help hit your goals and that's my coaching platform. Right their mindset michigan ice. Once you have that dialed in than the fear. Stood to ratchet dance. I like that. I like that. And i i see. You're a you're a proponent of those little messages around the house you just feel left at gold message up in front of you i. I went through a period. I did a lot of that right. Little sticky notes all over the mirrors in everywhere. A big embiid. Here's another one for podcasters at says start recording. Gotta remember that. I've been lucky enough. I haven't forgot to set the record button yet. I had one shared this real quick with your head. One probably like episode number three or interview number. Three and i got on and john gets on. We had this great interview in all right so that was the middle of the week and i do all my at my my processing on the weekend so i i sit down here my little space and i bring up the laptop might whereas my recording and your does that panic moment. And i'm like looking through all my files. And i'm pretty organized with my file structure so it was like it's not here anywhere. Okay maybe it's somewhere else and you know doing everything and then i'm just about ready to send a message to johnson dude. I got my face right. We need to record this. Because i can't find it in realized it was on my other computer shoe and so i think this that fear has kept me always checking the record button like the sticky too so Want to be mindful of your time and appreciate you hanging out here. let's let let's drop a top tip for our entrepreneurs are listening for any any arena. You'd like to share absolutely top tips for somebody who's early on in their path as someone that's about to start or restart maybe they've tried it before an stepped out but whatever it is. They're they're getting ready to say okay. I'm going to kick this into pants Saw i'll give you know two things one. Is you know. it's that stephen covey. You gotta start with the end in mind right and a lot of people wanna start small and see where it goes right in. That's probably one of the things that Creates that scenario where you start and stop and start and stop by experiential failures so start with the seven habits of highly effective people. Start with the end in mine. So that way you can have an idea of okay. Necessarily you're going to have to start small especially if you're if it's a one person show but then you know that that small step is building towards whatever the ideal end state is gonna be walkable. Go into it. They don't know what the ideal state is going to be in so when they start small they don't know where it's going or what is right or and that doesn't mean that it doesn't shift and look differently from roy for joining step. One step at one million. I'm not saying that either but with you if you just have a mentality long to start small and see where it goes. Probably aren't going to do much with that so yeah and then of course. The other thing is is Who's on your team yet. A coach get somebody who you can pay. That has a pathway already. Established that way you can lop off them. The time in in lop off the money to it. Might it might cost you more upfront. But it's gonna save you tremendous amounts of money and time in in in not even the long probably the mid term for sure into the loss of those are my two tips. Yeah no absolutely those great start with. I'm i'm a big proponent of the start with the end of mind. I learned this one the hard way at early on in my entrepreneur game and again i'm going to date myself. It would have been probably the mid to late. Nineties started out. I'm going to write this book. We all know how fun that can be right here and So i i actually did. Write an e book okay. I sell this book and made a few sales. But i didn't have anything past like. Okay what are you going to give them next right if someone raises their hand or saying. Hey i'll i'll read your book. Then they read it in. Oh that was awesome. What's next right. I don't know where i think more of late. I've got this bigger vision of gay. Here's this big product. i want to sell. Well i'm not going to go out there and pitch someone a nineteen ninety seven product right out of the gate. It can be done right but you know you need the big marketing budgets in everything else behind that and so i just started backing inches. Okay now what comes before the two thousand dollar product right. What comes before that. What comes before that so now. What's my lee. Call it the lead magnet. We all heard that turn right. What's the lead magnet of person that would in the end by this two thousand dollar car. Now right i have that small. Start like you're talking about but that still that big vision still there in mind in your ear right. Here's what's going to happen. I'm going to start that lead magnet. And i'm going to get these new new results. These new inputs from whoever is buying it saying. Oh will that thing that two thousand dollar product. I thought of. They really need this. You know it could be two degrees different. It could be two hundred degrees different. But the point is yeah. I think you're right. It's just start with that in mind. We already talked about the coaches right. Get those folks that will help us a short. Those those learning curves is huge. And i think beyond just the short of the learning curves. It's the what do i do next right. And if to your point if you get someone on your team that's done something along the path you're trying to travel. They can tell you well. If you're going to do this take this step. You're gonna do that. Take this step right which which direction so they can give you that guidance towards that next step and then hold you accountable crack that whip smack you up the head pat on the back. Whatever it might be. Yeah already sir. any final thoughts before we let you go. No tracy thank you so much for having me on. The show was was a fun time. And i really hope that your listeners got something out of this and we're able to apply some the knowledge that was given. I'm sure they will but before we let you go. I don't wanna. I wanna shirt my responsibility here. They want to learn more about knicks. Telo in all his goodness. Maybe they want you as a coach right. They know you got game. Where do they where do they find more about you. Yeah so you can go to my website. It's www dot nic dot com s. l. o. Is my last name. You can find me on social media on facebook in the search nextel. I should pop up. You'll see the purple branding all around. They're not cast called the it'd life and that's on most of the major platforms again. You'll see the purple brandon cap mistake. It you're gonna see me. I'm just now starting to grow beard out and most of my photos. Here's vol- affect so that might look a little bit different. Instagram is at the underscore upgraded life. And so probably my website the best place again. Find me in what. I'm about even book a strategy session. Tracy i give away thirty minutes to just listen to people and see what their needs. Aren't if i'm a good fit. I let him know not help them find somebody else. Who is thirty minute strategy. will be sure to get all those links in the show notes so people can just click and get right to you right away knit. Thanks so much. I definitely appreciate your time brother. Take care okay there you have it. My darker friends and family. Nick satele dropping some entrepreneurial in coaching consulting bombs on today what thoughts did resident hooked to. What thoughts did resonate with your wild. Here's good speaking his knit. What thoughts resonated with you. Let me give you the ones that. I came always thought number one. How do you transition to your dream. The knit mentioned the mortality rate of those that were in his field and he sat down with his wife to plan their exit out of their current fields into their purposefully chosen entrepreneurial path. Now we've heard a number of guests that have been on this show that just jumped off the cliff and grew wings on the way ghana. That was their tactic of entering their entrepreneurial journey. Now this tactic is his. I've said is really not for everyone. So here we have. Someone is a little bit more purposeful and thought out transition to go from one to the other without the risk associated with that a growing wings on the way down tactic so the question becomes which one is right for you. Well i'm going to be honest. An answer only you can determine right now however. Perhaps it's an answer that you might be best served to get some help with from a coach from a trusted mentor year spouse. Perhaps it's a blend of one Or or multiple of them right. Everyone's situations are unique in need to be addressed as just that unique yet. I think so much of the time. Someone's unique situation has been faced by so many before them that those who have faced them before concertedly lend a hand and helping you facing yours thought number two. they're always different perspectives. Aren't they now. Nick didn't call. This went out specifically but during our great conversation. I shared a perspective. The head learned from migrate grandmother. Who raised my mom in nick. Who was raised by. His grandmother shared a different perspective that she had gleaned or the he had gleaned from from his grandmother is either one wrong. You know what for me the answer is no everyone gleaned from their own perspective from their experiences and how they view them right. So here's what's even better for me. Neither one of us had to jump to defend the perspective that we had learned from our elders. Both of us were able to understand the perspective of the other person and respected. We would want our perspective to be understood and respected so as an entrepreneur. And i think moreover as a thought leader you are most likely are going to need a willing to hear out those perspectives. That might not ally one hundred percent with yours and at least ponder them right with your own perspective right or and then maybe ponder the embassy how they might impact your own perspective or might not impact them. Right do you. Does your perspective needs to shift as a result of this new bit of information even in the slightest who knows thought number. Three having a coach can make a huge difference. Nick shares his experience of trying to get his fitness under control member emma. He was an athlete in high school in well into college but then he found out his later years at his fitness was not near where he wanted it to be even mentioned now he had dabbled tacked on a little bit extra weight. Now after trying. A number of different self paced techniques courses and things He then took on the aid of a coach and a nick was able to make some incredible improvements in his fitness and only five months and he had taken on the coach at a time. We recorded the episode versus all the time. He been trying to do it alone. Prior to his coaches assistant. And here's the deal. Call this out. Not only does a coach know what they are talking about because they've been there and done that and they've studied many many that have right they can also personalize the journey to your situation and to your goals as well as help hold you accountable to reach into very dreams and goals. You told them you wanted to reach so once again. You hear not only me but yet another guess touting the benefits of having a coach to help you along in your journey be at entrepreneurial relationships spiritual or an example of nick gave fitness and thought number four. Start with the end in mind. Nick reminded this that. Starting with that mentality that you know. I'm just gonna start and see where it goes yet have not so much. That's you prescription for ending up nowhere near where you want to be instead. You need to start with the end in mind for me. This is much like the vista vision. I have my coaching clients. Who's right you're sitting up high on a vista for example overlooking the life that you dream and desire. What does it look like. What do you see where you living what do you. What's the i smell. You have when you walk outside the door of the hope that you're living in right. Who is helping you. What are you doing to earn a living. How does it feel when you help others. Who are you helping. With whom are you hanging out. How do you feel when you wake up in the morning right. Who like i said who has helped you or who is helping you. Leave your dreams c. n. As you look down over that vista vision of your life has it. Make you feel proud. Happy loved wanted hamas. the above. You see when you start with the end mind. I think you are much more motivated to take each and every step to get there even if over time you're vista vision changes which i think by the way it will even if it's just a little bit right. Few saas ponder there. What inspiring ideas resonated with you. Whatever they were take some time right one down just take one write it down and put it into action today or tomorrow get out there run your race get your results and the comeback. Let me hear about them right seriously. Email me at tracy at dark horse. Schooling dot com and share the the tips ideas that you came away with today. How you put into action in what results you gained from them heck might even bring you on the show and had you share your story and hey here's another opportunity. Come on over into the facebook group at you know facebook dot com type in. I i told you earlier. Darkhorse tribe in that search bar and commitment to the a dark worst tribe group and share with us. What you glean and how you put it in action and what results you gain from it in for some reason right. You can't find a facebook group that way. You can go to your favorite web browser type in dark horse. Schooling dot com backslash darkhorse tribe. All one word that should take you right there as look forward to hearing your winds. I speaking of winds. Let me tell you about a next interview. Episodes guest rich resent sqi now. Rich is the sole founder of tragic media. Which is a technology and software consulting firm based out of san diego california who. I'm envious of rich right now right. I love to san diego. Surfing rich has grown tragic from the ground up out of his successful freelance consulting career. Now to honor. He has provided some top notch services to companies that we all know and admire. I mean even the likes of pixar all while being one hundred percent himself. Now i knew you wanna keep getting all these valuable tips and stories. This podcast in the guess. I'm lucky enough to be able to get on. So go on down there and smash that subscribe button wired there. Could you leave us. A five star review. That would be awesome and some kind words a five star rating. Here i go. i'm a. I'm so ahead of myself. A five star rating and leave us some kind words in the review. Heck go ahead and leave us. Some words for improvements anything you think would be beneficial to those to me and to those listening right and of course. Don't keep all this. Entrepreneurial g. l. d. all to yourself get out there and share this podcast with other entrepreneurs and business owners you know would get value from it and with that. I'm gonna leave you as i always do. Successfully it take action. Thank you for listening to the dark horse entrepreneur podcast. Thanks for tuning in check us out at. Www dot dark horse schooling dot com. My name is tracey bregman.

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51: Business Opportunity Is Knocking Answer the Door! With Nigel Guisinger

BiggerPockets Business Podcast

1:18:12 hr | 10 months ago

51: Business Opportunity Is Knocking Answer the Door! With Nigel Guisinger

"The welcome to the bigger pockets business. Podcast show number fifty one and we went with the business. Philosophy called the week. Zebra find out who your competition is rack and stack your customer base. Figure out who they're using then Iraq stack of your competition that says here's the strongest to the weakest go after market share and take it from the weakest and keep going welcome to a real world. Mba from the school of hard knocks. Were entrepreneurs reveal what it really takes to make it whether you're already in business or you're on your way there this show is for you. This is bigger pockets. How's it going? Everyone I'm Jay Scott. I'm your co host for the bigger pockets business podcast here again with my co host. The lovely Mrs Carol Scott. How's it going today care doing pretty well? All Things considered tell you. What though no offense to you Jay. But I'm missing my people right my goodness this the staying home understand. It's entirely necessary. It's the right thing to do but wow I had to go this morning to pick up some schoolwork for this guy and had to stop myself dead in my tracks because I think it was like five and a half feet within the radius. I'm like Oh my gosh. I don't WanNa Freak anybody out so anyway. Missing People like crazy. But I'm loving zoom calls loving connecting with family members with friends from a long time ago with business owners with entrepreneurs with just other people trying to stay positive and get through this together in. Thank you once again to all of our listeners. Just sticking in there with us through all of this. We have really great episode today and you are going to love it absolutely. We have an amazing episode today and our episode. Today is all about opportunity. There is a whole lot of doom and gloom out there these days understandably a lot of people not sure where things are headed. What's going on but along with that? Potential doom and gloom is always a silver lining and our guest today helps us with that silver lining. His name is Nigel Geissinger and he is an entrepreneur. He's kind of a Hybrid Real Estate Entrepreneur and business entrepreneur. He's figured out how to put those two together to buy great businesses that own real estate and then basically leverage both of them basically make money both on the business and the real estate itself but the important thing is. Nigel talks us today. All about the great opportunity. We have as either entrepreneurs or want to be entrepreneurs who are looking to build our business by a new business. Start a new business and he talks all about. He throws out some amazing statistics and he talks all about how am why today. Maybe the best opportunity in decades for those entrepreneurs are those want to be entrepreneurs to jump in and start building or buying a business. This is amazing. Episode Literally Action Packed in fact stick around until the very end when Nigel tells us his list of very specific actions. That need to be taking today. So that three hundred sixty five days from now you're operating a successful business. Okay now if you want to find out anything more about NIGEL STUFF. We talk about in this episode links to the things we discussed in this episode. Please check out our show notes at bigger pockets dot com slash Biz. Show fifty one again. That's bigger pockets. Dot Com slash Biz. Show fifty-one now. Before we jump into our episode with Nigel let's hear a quick word from our awesome sponsor. Our sponsor today offers a product. That's absolutely perfect for this moment in time. Every plate delivers tasty meals right to your door and each meal is the same price as one cup of coffee so you can stay home. Take a break from cooking every night and you don't have to break the bank. I'll admit I've been skeptical about meal kits in the past making be expensive. But every play is America's best value meal kit. It's up to fifty eight percent cheaper than other major brands recipes. Come together in about thirty minutes. And my favorite part is you never buy more ingredients than you need because every place recipes come with everything premeasured. Every plate is constantly expanding. Their shipments owns so at checkout. Just double check to make sure they deliver to your Zip Code. Get three weeks of every plate meals for only two ninety nine per meal. Yes you heard that right to ninety nine per meal by going to every plate dot com and entering the code be pb three like bigger pockets business and the number three. That's every play dot com and enter the code be PB and the number three. Thank you so much sure sponsor okay now without any further ado. Let's jump into our discussion with Nigel. Geissinger Nigel thank you so much for joining us today. How's it going? Hey I'm doing fantastic. Herrell thank you very much for having me on. Thanks J. Absolutely thank you so much for being here. This is GonNa be a fantastic episode. We've been really excited about getting you on the podcast. Since I met you back I guess it was the bigger pockets conference last September so we talked a little while and I love Your Business Model and it makes even more sense now that we're kind of in the midst of this crisis that we're in the midst of so I'm I'm actually. It's probably good for us in our listeners that we held off a few months getting you want here. But I'm really excited to have you on so just as some backstory for our listeners. Can you give us an idea? Where did you come from? How did you kind of get to where you are today and a little bit about what you're doing today and so yeah so grew up in born and raised in Salem Oregon and my dad was in construction? My mom worked for the local high school and I was fortunate to also grow up in a family that that with my grandparents that had owned their own business. So I'd always been an entrepreneur at heart. I knew from the time I was little. I wanted to be in business. My first job was selling rocks on the beach to kids so that they could skip rocks up in the puget sound and my sister was embarrassed when I was seven years old so I knew from the time I was really little that I wanted to own my own business and I wanted to help other. People achieve getting their own businesses as well. Starting after high school or in high school I went up and got some education financial education from my dad's brother my uncle and my grandma and so truly got that life experience of almost like that rich dad poor dad experience where you know. You've got one uncle who's who's really pushing him business in in a dad who's in construction. GotTa take those. Two skill sets together went to Oregon State. University was originally going to be a business degree. Major was sitting in class listening to the professor. Talk about derivative lending and. I decided you know this isn't for me. I think this could crash the economy. That was two thousand to two thousand and eight derivative lending really screwed up the economy so thankfully I pulled out of that I was. I had gotten my degree. I ended up getting my degree in German of all things because I was already fluent in German and so did that started up a fraternity and and because of that that kind of got me into that mode of like you know anything they can do. I can do so. Why take something on when I can? Just start something up to start up a fraternity that had Had wanted to get back on campus. We recruited ninety six guys in two years and became the third-largest House on campus. And from then on it was it was all about how to be in business outside of school once I graduated sold construction equipment for about a decade for two different companies and then decided that I wanted to get into business myself The town that I lived in Salem has a suburb called Kaiser. That's where it really grew up in. Kaiser had a huge project that took out. It was called Kaiser Station. It's it's a big development and when it happened in two thousand eight there is a big downturn there and as a result the city lost a lot of finances which was further beautification projects for the main part of town because of this new development and it really hurt the community and so I kept hearing all my friends say. Somebody's got to do something about this. Somebody's got to do something about this. Will eventually somebody has to do that. And somebody has to be that person and I got so fed up that I was working on an apartment Rehab Project that I have my best friend said you know. This isn't right. Somebody's got to do something about it. And I I can remember having drinks and I said I've heard that line one time too many never again. Who's going to be that somebody? I'm going to be that somebody in so I looked online right. Then and there found on Biz by sell a business that was up for sale and I called the business broker. Right there we're sitting at a bar I call the business brokers said. Hey is this thing for sale. He says Yeah Sydney. Send me the financials on my iphone. We While sitting there at the Bar. I ended up buying the business and I looked over at my friend and said you know what we're gonNA lead from the front. So did you have any? I mean did you had. Did you have any experience buying businesses I mean? How did you decide? Like how much am I gonNA offer? And what do I get? And what's the risk? I mean that just it is. Isn't it yeah? No that's exactly how American economy works right. You're supposed to go. You know we can figure this out. Smart people can figure this out. So what did I do know? I hadn't really had a large experience into it. I mean I had had some. I take that back while so in construction equipment. I had a customer of mine out some financial hardship. I had some real estate because I'd been saving my money and putting it into real estate. He got in a bind. I told him. Let's use my assets as collateral for your bond as a. I want twenty five percent of the company. Any did it. This was in two thousand ten and so after three years of doing that. I know how business in that Class Company got up to twenty million dollars business. I sold that off here about three years ago but that was literally because I said you know what you need somebody to to be there for the collateral all jump in on that and so I had some sort of business you know where I had my own but I have a group of mentors behind me that I could tap into for better advice and so that's what I did. I wasn't the smartest guy in fact. I'm not ever going to be the smartest guy I was never four point student. I wasn't the guy. Who's you know Suma Cum laude? I wasn't the guy who has ever picked. I for a baseball team. Heck is usually baton night right. I mean I'm also involved. I was on our state football championship team for mcnairy. I'm I'm in the pitcher but I'm not. I didn't play like they didn't win because of me. It just happened to be there right so the thing is is that I take that approach and say I don't have to be the very best what I have to have to find people who are tap into them and then grow this thing because there's so much opportunity and it's just is somebody willing to pick it up. You know going back to that store on Iraq's on the beach when I came back from that summer camp my sister like I said was super embarrassed and my mom says will Kendall. That's my sister. Why are you embarrassed? And she says you know he's just so on rocks on the beach they could have just picked those rocks up themselves. They were just skipping rocks into the PUGET SOUND. And my mom said something. That's just absolutely profound but but small at the same time. He's but they didn't love. I sold rocks on the beach. I went to a summer camp at at seven years old and walked home with one hundred bucks and a whole bunch of candy and t shirts and hats and everything that said the summer camp on it because I picked up a rock on a beach. I'm not the smartest guy but kids want to skip rocks on a beach and a quarter for Iraq to skip. I I love that. Let's go back to this business. I'm intrigued now. So two thousand ten ish. You're sitting in a bar. You're talking about like somebody has to do something you find this businesses that the glass business no so. This is an appliance business. So I've been rehab an apartment complex and I thought. Hey this is great. I can do this and then I looked and said you know. There's there's going to be a better way because I don't want to just be landlord so we're talking about this and I'm looking at these or at appliances. We bought a bunch of appliance about sixteen thousand dollars with appliances. And then the next week. I have another complex just down the street and it gets a repair for an appliance for dishwasher and if anybody owns apartments you'll know that you've got maintenance and repair and all that. I got a bill to fix a dishwasher for four hundred and eighty six dollars and I lost my mind as I go. Buy a new for three hundred. What what the head so I called up the guy who was who was doing the repair and he's like well. Are you GONNA pay the bill not like? Hey let me look into this. Not as something seems off Kendra says the bill and so that prompted me to say there's gotta be a better option for for who I'm using right so then I talked to my buddy who's a contractor and he goes you know there's really nobody who sells to the construction guys and somebody who fixes. There's there's kind of a disconnect between the two you can buy big volume at the box store. You can get the mom and pop to fix but if you've got a big rehab project or you could a new apartment complex or you're building new houses. There's a disconnect between those two and I said Bingo deal so when I went when we're sitting at the bar at the bar I look on Biz by and see that this guy selling appliances is wanting to sell. This was a competitor of the guy who had used and so I said to my buddy who builds apartments said. Hey if I if I sign this deal and by this do I have your business and I'm kind of smiling because I've got the P. L. from this other business I mean you can pull that stuff up on line from Biz by so he goes. Yeah why is it? I want you to shake on it and say that. I'll have your business if we get it and by the way you know about how much you guys spin an appliance for your for your apartment building says Oh not too much. Maybe about seven seven figures just over a million bucks a year. I said okay. I said all by the next round he says what I said. Just shake on that. I got your business he says. Well we've got existing contracts. It's GONNA take about two years to get you into them because I can't cut the people who I'm already doing stuff with it. I totally respect that we signed a week. We shake on it and he goes. Why are you smiling so big? I said well 'cause this guy. Only three hundred and fifty thousand dollars revenue last year. Thanks for triple the size of the business before I even bought. It took four months to buy it. We bought it through an SBA loan. I bought that business for a hundred and fifty thousand in two thousand and seventeen. We did almost nine and a half million dollars revenue. Hold firmly knock shells that's all. We were whirlpools fastest growing dealer in the country three years in a row and we went with the business. Philosophy called the week Zebra which is find out who your competitions rack and stack your customer base based on how much they do figure out who they're using than Iraq and stack your competition that says here's the strongest to the weakest go after market share and take it from the weakest and keep going and once you've taken them and their market share go onto the next week. Zebra okay. Let's just say that again in. I think I sort of got that. Can you say that again in a little bit slower and smaller words for my brain so that we can really get an idea of the strategy? Yeah so if you take your market any market doesn't matter what you do. Everybody has competitors the big fish little fish everywhere between now just because somebody is a bigger business doesn't mean that they're a better business. It just means that they are currently bigger than you are now. Everybody has weaknesses. Some people have logistics issues. Some people have personality issues. Some people just just don't have it in marketing spot. So what we did was. I hired outside. Pr Person and what my PR person did was. She went to all of the property. Management companies all of the home builder's all of the apartment complex manufacturers. All of the the nonprofits that have housing all of the people who could buy appliances more than once. Because you were mean. We're only going to buy a dishwasher in our house every seven to ten years right but the Housing Authority's GonNa buy one every week. The the Union Gospel mission is helping people get into houses. They need a washing machine every week. You know there's some some different things that can be repeatable customers. So I was looking for is not to get that one often on fighting with the big box stores that sell appliances in bulk. What I'm looking for. Who Can. Who can I build a relationship with? And then this must sell it to him and then next to him and then the next month and the next itself so we have to figure out who those customers are I will once we find out who they are we also need to know who are they using and why once. I know who the customer is and who they're using then I can create a business plan of how to get those customers so based on that what do I do. It's really simple Iraq and stack them and say okay. Well this is the guy who's hardest to get and he's hurons business even better than I do. I have a competitor in my own town. It hurts to say but they're actually better at business than I am. You know why they've been doing it for sixty years. They have their systems down. Better doesn't mean anything against my company and the people who work for me. I love the people that work for me. I love my clients. I respect my competition. I'd love to take him out but I hope that through this this This pandemic that. We're suffering. I hope nobody goes away because I'm a better business person because that competitor exists and so what we do. Is we rack and stack them now? There are some people who are not good at business we all have competitors that do that. I'm sure some people think that about me but the facts are as if we can rack and stack and say here's where the customer base is. Here's where my company is. Here's these other ones. That aren't doing us well and to be honest. The customer deserves better. They get they need either a better price. They need better service than he'd better quality. They need better response. Time whatever it is and so figuring out where you're stronger than somebody else find out where those people are weak and attack that competitor that way and so we actually had an excellent spreadsheet and it was color-coded coded there's like thirteen different appliance. Servicers and dealers in our city. We knew exactly who? Every property management company was using every builder who they were using and why and we knew what was their reasoning. Was it price? Was it so now when we went after this this customers? What did we do is really simple? We just simply gave them what they were looking for. Because SOME GUYS ARE PRICE. Some guys are are service. Some people are I wanted now. Some people are hey you know what the aesthetic of the showroom be better than what I've got. Some people just want to go out and have a drink with you some people. There's all sorts of reasons that people do business with other people. And so what I found was if I knew the why I could give the why that they wanted not necessarily the why I was trying to sell. So that's what I did. That's awesome so so. Let me summarize us. Make sure I had this correct so basically step one figure out who your customers are and you did that by hiring outside. Pr People who could do local marketing to businesses and not just any customers. You focused on those customers who are repeat buyers which is really smart. If you think about it I mean you find a repeat buyer and you're marketing to them once maybe twice at to get them coming back you go after those one off customers. You'll have to keep that marketing machine gun because you're constantly finding new customers so step one is finding these repeat customers. Step to figuring out who they're using for their services who your competitors are and kind of ranked them top to bottom who the best ones are to the worst ones are really understand who your competitors are step three figure out what your competitive advantages compared to those competitors. So how can you do things better? What do you do better? What do you? What resources do you have? What what knowledge or expertise that you have that you can really outshine those competitors and then step four within that framework of who your customers are who the competitors are who the what your competitive advantages figure out how you can offer a better service to those specific customers than those specific competitors. Can't sad about right. That's exactly that's exactly it's like. I said we call it the week. Zebra because you'll lie. They don't go attack the heard the entire herd they go and find the weakest one I and they eat that one up and as a result the heard stronger the lion stronger. We consider ourselves attack dogs. We want to be aggressive not reckless but aggressive and so as a result what do we want to be? We Wanna be that hungry lion and we WANNA zebra. That's awesome and it. Sounds like you're not only being hungry lion and attacking and going after the strategy hardcore. It sounds like you're balancing it really nicely by custom tailoring your approach for every one of your customers based on what they want a need you're not just blasting out there just saying this is what we've got. This is how we're going to make this happen. You really tuning in to listen and give them the best thing that resonates most with them. That's exactly there's compassionate aspect of this too. That people need to have so like you're going to knock out competitors. It's going to happen as a result if you do the strategy you have to have the mercy on the backside too so those same guys who sold me a dishwasher that. I got so upset about trust mail when after their business in a year and a half ago. They wrapped up. You know what I did before. They wrapped up. I offered every single one of those people that company a job including the owner. And I said you know what you guys are actually better at appliance. Repair the night. Your techs are better than me. You guys have really bad customer service. Why don't you come? Why don't you come work for us? And what? She has to be the texts. And why don't we make sure that now you can do what you need. But you've got some fulfillment issues that we that we can do because we have the logistics that you guys don't and this guy actually ended up making more money working for me. He still works for me today. I mean we've had these these different things with people getting furloughed this all of the service decks. It came over. Guess what they're all still working every one of them. They're still doing repairs. They're doing repairs right now. I love that. So you're basically you're being honest with yourself. You're saying hey. This is what I'm really good at. I'm really good at the marquee. I'm really good at running the business. I'm really good at reducing expenses. Whatever it is you're really good at and then you're saying you're the things I'm not so good. I'm not good at actually Dixon Appliances. But here we have somebody. That's actually been running this business for five years or fifty years. Who is really good at that? Why not let them keep doing that? Let them do what. They're really good at let them do that. Thing that allowed that business to be in business for five or ten or fifty years while you improve the business by doing what you're really good at basically just that complementary skills. Here's a little secret. I can't actually install a dishwasher like I don't know how to do that. My company last year worked with eighteen thousand customers and I don't know how to install the dishwasher like. I actually don't know how to do that if I wanna to go do a dishwasher. I'd have to go youtube it. I don't know how however I've got a dozen people who know how and I know that if I need. Install a dishwasher. I can call you know David who works for me. Who worked for those other guys in? David can get dishwasher in fifteen minutes. So why would I do love it? Love is because I can pay him and he's amazing and I'm so grateful that you know that this happened. Because he is too because now he doesn't have the headaches and the risk and he's making more money and we talk about that along the show Carolina talk about that a lot in our real estate investing business. I know there are a lot of real estate investors out there but we flipped four hundred plus houses and car will tell you. I still can't change a light bulb and he doesn't and just like you. Why would he? He could call a guy who can have it. Done quicker simpler in easier than he could even mess with it love it love it okay and I think I think that there's a lot of opportunity for people. I mean I found appliances but there are so many opportunities for so many people right now. This market is absolutely prime for the picking in. It's going to be amazing going forward. Okay so this was your first business. But you've bought and built a bunch of businesses. Since and I love Your Business Model you have a very i. Don't call it unique. 'cause you're probably not the only person that's doing it but it's unique enough that I hadn't thought of it or seen it before. Can you talk to us a little bit about what your your strategy for businesses are investing is and what kind of niche? You've kind of built over the last decade absolutely so my wheelhouse is I love businesses. Where you've got an owner. Who wants to retire so let me step back just to hear him years ago. Well it's been about fifteen years ago. I was sitting in a dentist office in. If somebody of that's listening can find this. Please please please send it to me. I would. I would love to melt this thing on my wall. There's an Aarp magazine article in a dentist office that I read and it said that with they were talking about baby boomers and retiring of course because it's a magazine and what they said was ninety percent of businesses have no succession plan whatsoever. Where there's an employee that can take the the business and they were talking specifically about businesses that had a gross revenue of one to ten million with a ten percent EBA which means hundred thousand dollar a year. People minimum that ninety percent of them have no way to sell the business. Give the business employees or anything. If they don't do some sort of seller finance. How sad is that so then it got me looking into some data. And here's some here's some just real basic analytics last year. Three hundred sixty thousand businesses wrapped up only thirty two thousand. Ein numbers were acquired by other companies. That means that three hundred twenty thousand businesses last year wrapped up. Wow so so when we look at this. There's so much opportunity that it's it's there. It's there for the picking right so what. I was reading this magazine. I'm saying wait a second. So you've got a whole bunch of sellers. You have nobody who wants to buy right now and so there are three things. You could negotiate in any deal no matter if it's a business or if it's the Cana soda pop that you're going to drink. There is price. There is rate and there is duration normally when somebody buys something a piece of real estate or business they negotiate the by price with the seller and they negotiate the rate and the duration with the bank now in businesses. It's not that way you take the gloves off and you say hey wait a second. I'm going to negotiate the price. The rate and the duration because in many cases the business owner owns a business with no debt or has minimum amounts to debt or also owns the real estate. The business holds now during that that type of thought process with the SBA that exists. You can go buy business with ten percent down on a business. So the example that I'll give is the real life example of what I bought for another appliance store. See because about the first one and I thought why don't I create a network of a creative regional appliance store where we've got five or six or seven different locations and we can send product from one location to another? We can have some synergies between our delivery staff our service staff in and we can have a few salespeople in if somebody's sick. I could move on from one store to another. You know this helps out just on a cost basis right so I find an appliance store space in Sherwood Oregon and the people own the land and they own the business. Now they're hitting the the senior end of their career and they want to retire and so they say you know what we want to sell. But we don't want to get all the money now. So what do we do so we came up with a really creative solution what if I use the SBA to buy the business and they get all the cash for the business. So they're all paid out and they carry the debt on the land one hundred percent now. That doesn't sound like a big deal for most people. But let's go into some of the numbers in these are the real numbers. We bought the whole thing for one point. Eight million dollars. That's the land in the business. We decided that the business was worth approximately five hundred thousand dollars so they would get five hundred thousand dollars and then carry a note on one point three million for the land on that five hundred thousand. I needed to come up with fifty thousand because the SBA Gimme four hundred and fifty thousand dollars. That means that for a one point eight million dollars. Acquisition is spent fifty thousand dollars a mile money. This was a positive cash flowing business. It still exist today. It's open if somebody needs appliances. Come on in. We're ensuring like we'd love to help you. It's still exists. Now here's the kicker I bought that. In two thousand fifteen we are going through some refinance just like a lot of smart people are doing right now. You should be looking at that if you own a business owned land. See where your costs start? We got a three point two million dollar valuation on that land. Wow so now the business. I've got the debt service paid down. We've been paying that for the last four and a half years so we've got that debt-service service down by a couple of hundred thousand. The businesses paid itself off and that fifty thousand dollars equates to almost one point four million dollars asset value so the question is why are more people not doing this? It's not because I'm smarter than anybody else because like I say I'm the guy who picked last in sports. I'm not the smartest in the room. What I found is that there are so many opportunities and nobody's asking the simple question. What do they want? These owners wanted then wanted annuity. They wanted to get revenue every month. They wanted to shotley arm. Which is what the SBA loan gave them. And then they got paid ten thousand dollars a month on that land for three years until we refinanced it and that's what they did was the greatest thing for both people. They mitigated tax expense. Because they didn't take one point. Eight million dollars in all one year they were able to to maneuver this thing to everybody. Benefited because we negotiate a price rate and duration in all three are equally as important. And so what? I'd love to see US people today. Get ill that are listening. I'd love to see people get creative about this. Because ultimately we're going to have to rebuild this economy and it's going to come on the backs of people who are smart enough to figure it out and there are millions of businesses. You know there's twenty. Five million businesses seven point seven million employed to people are more in this country. There's so much opportunity right now. Our government is literally giving away money to people to keep businesses and keep people employed. Why not grab it? It's there there's people who want to walk out of business with two hundred thousand people last year that graduated with. Mba's in this country on an average debt service of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. We have three hundred and twenty eight thousand businesses. That didn't get acquired last year. Why don't we just match up the two hundred thousand people who are walking out with an MBA and the three hundred twenty eight thousand who are GonNa shut down and give it away for nothing and go like this? Oh Hey lo. And behold we don't have businesses. Just you know getting killed because small street main street is as important or more important to me than Wall Street. I don't care what the CEO of Boeing made. When everybody was fighting this out I care about is. How do we preserve every business? How do I preserve that bakery that we shop at? How do I preserve that small? You know Sewing machine may who repair company. How do I save you? Know the the little tax guy you know. How do I save these small businesses because between the seven point seven million of US small businesses? We are as important whereas viable and more important to mainstream because we represent sixty four percent of the people who actually work in this country and we are present sixty one point eight percent of the new employees that are created annually in this country because the back of this country was built on small business. It wasn't built on Wall Street and so my stance is. Why am I here today? And I'm so blessed to be here with you guys is one thing and one thing. I WANNA see us. Come back I WANNA see US rocket and I believe that we can and I think it's not going to happen by one company taking a million steps. It's GonNa Happen because seven point. Seven million business owners say you know what not today? We're taken one more step than we should have. We just need one more step and if we do that as a country it's going to be amazing we're GONNA see a change as this thing comes out and I'm so jack because I know that we're GONNA see huge changes we've already seen this socially changing our country you know. Nobody's complaining about what bathrooms he is right. Now it's the one with toilet paper so you know he's going to solve that the small mom and pop. Yeah I need to tell a little story here just to reinforce this because you're absolutely correct and I never shy away from talking about my mistake so a bunch of years ago I started a company and company went well for a little while but turns out that our costs were way to hide where we were designing and building a product or margin for low and after a couple of years. We basically had to give up. We shut the business down looking back. There was no reason why we needed to shut the business down. We weren't generating the profit margins that made the business worth for us but it was a mildly profitable business. It was profitable enough that I guarantee you. There are people out there. That would have been thrilled to own this business. They probably could held on for a few years. As as technology costs came down and and if they were better at At at optimizing certain types of supply chains than I was. They probably could really profitable business so we shut the business down without even trying to sell it. And I know there are all these people out there that think. Well why would an owner sell us a business at practically nothing? Why would an owner be willing to basically hand our business? Well let me tell you something. Six years ago I shut down a business that I would have been thrilled to sell for fifty K. or one hundred k. Or Two hundred K. On terms I would have taken no money down offer from from another business owner. Who came in and said let me just give you ten percent of our profits for the next ten years. I would've taken anything because I shut that business down into nothing even ten dollars. Somebody comes in and says I'll give you a ten dollars for your business. I would've made ten dollars more and so that goes to exactly what you were saying. Ninety percent of these business owners don't realize it. I think I'm pretty good at this. And still I walked away from this business without giving it a second thought. Ninety percent of business owners think about it even less than I do. You catch them when they're ready to walk away and they're going to be happy to hand you the keys to their business because they're gonNA make something as opposed to nothing so I wish I would have talked to you six seven years ago because I would have made a whole lot more money. Everybody needs to listen to this. Well it might my stance is. I believe that right now. We have an opportunity to grow Mineta country. There has never been greater time then right now. I mean. This isn't some sort of movement that's going to happen. This is the moment if you want to know you. You'RE GONNA go back twenty years thirty years one hundred years from now your kids. Your grandkids are going to hit. What did you do on tooth in April two thousand twenty because in April? Two thousand twenty we as a country every decision. Are we going to step up and say hey you know what we're going to go and we're we're not gonNA let any business go behind and we're GONNA make sure that the ones that the people are tired and beat up because emotionally. It's tough I mean I'd be lying if I said that last night I didn't come home and cry because I love people who who worked for me and I've got to make tough decisions I did. It's hard and this is the real talk of how business goes in a Lotta guys. Y'All were Gore women. Please don't take it wrong if I use the word guys. It's just a colloquialism I use. But but a lot of a lot of folks that are business owners you know. This is not easy. It's hard. It's really hard. It's so hard that people don't try it because they're scared and people give up too early and the reason that we shouldn't give up is because there's so much opportunity right now the amount of opportunity that we have is ridiculous and right now we have government the government literally given small businesses loans. And don't be surprised if you see debt-forgiveness on it for some of this stuff you know I mean you're never going to mitigate the risk one hundred percent so jump in because if you don't you know what what do you got to lose. I mean if you're going to go broke you might as well go for swing for the fence so let. Let's talk actionable here for a second. So let's say you've convinced me and you have convinced me that I need to go out today and by business and now maybe it's a business like you said where there's the business in the underlying land which we kind of skipped over this which this was another other mazing tip here which is literally if you buy a business where the owner owns the land underneath you've now purchased two independent assets that you can grow independently you can grow the business you can allow the the land underneath a to to grow and appreciate and yet some point you can sell the business and keep the land you can sell the land to keep the business you can keep both land in the business if you sell the business now you have a ten at the the new owner of the business is GONNA come in. He becomes your tenant as long as the businesses successful. He's going to be paying you your rent on the land. I mean amazing. Amazing Strategy There. Now let me ask you a question though actionable. I'm ready to do this today. Our listeners are ready to do this today. How do we find that business or does that? We can do couplet absolutely a couple of different ways number one main. We all have to be quarantined. That doesn't mean you can't go take a drive down your street right. Go go go by the businesses of the people who who are baby boomers that you think these guys might be tired. You know it's not hard right now. Bunch of these businesses are open so drive by and see which ones aren't open see which ones are open and just call them. Hey I've been a customer of yours for twenty years customer of yours for two weeks. Hey I see this. This is something you can you tell me about? Your Business. I'm yet to ever find a business owner. Who's not passionate about what they'll never found a guy who goes you know. I've had this plumbing company for thirty two years in you know what the heck with you know. They're not they're they're like. Hey you know I built this from the ground up and that toilet back there. I fixed forty three times. You know everybody talks about because they're passionate about what they done. It's what people have their lives into and so go in and find somebody who is tired because there's a lot of people that are tired inject that energy to him inject that energy and say so what can I do to make sure that we come back together. You know. We've all closed down. How do I make this earth? The comeback is that you've got a shot of energy and you because you've got the know how and I got the energy so what I'm GonNa do as a shot of my energy and a year. No how and you're GONNA get shot a your know-how into my energy and together we're gonNA forge us because you know what no business employer that I know of doesn't have compassion for their employees? Nobody wants when you wrapped up your business guarantee. The thing that was on your mind the most was the people who worked for me is this right. Should I stick around a little bit longer for my people because everybody has compassion? Had that in their head. How do I take care of my people? That's what I care about most whenever I had to do something this last week to buy walking in and seeing those owners saying hey how do I keep people employed and keep this thing going? That's what it is that's awesome and so basically what I'm hearing is. We're we're all sitting here thinking okay. We're going to go and we're going to offer the the owner money because that's what the owner wants. We do the same thing real estate. We always think the only thing to offer to seller is money. That's all they care about but we know that there are problems that people have when they're selling real estate or selling a business one of the big ones is this continuity and we don't think about that but there are a lot of owners out there who would probably be happy to say take my business or take it for a really small amount. All I ask him return that you keep paying my employees. You keep the business going because this is my legacy this is. This is not a tool to a lot of business owners. This is emotional. And they want to see that their business lives on. They WANNA see maybe their names on the business or maybe maybe these employees. They've had for twenty years and they wanna see that live on. This is a legacy for them as much as it is a financial windfall again. A lot of business owners. They'll take ten dollars because it's ten more than they would have made but if you promise the continuity you're offering something that they otherwise could not have. That's exactly that I have never had an owner. I've bought so we bought out. I think nine appliance stores. I bought a laundry mat. I bought a glass company. I started up a homebuilding company. I have never had an opposing owner. Say the most important thing was the money. It's always been so. Hey you know so. And so I brought him on for years ago because at a drug problem and watch this person because I care about them and I gave them a chance. Make sure that you protect this person. Hey you know. This person is a single mom. And she's she's really fought about. She's a hard worker and all she needs somebody to to let her come in eight fifteen. It's the eight because she's GonNa take her voice to school. You know this is. This is what people actually care about. We we get into all this business you know talk about all these different analytics and all that and we can get into it but but it really comes down to an emotional connection. And how can you serve your employees? And how can you serve the sellers employees? Because that's what they care about. I have yet to ever have one say you know what? Here's the check writer to me too. Heck with them out. Everybody says hey. How do I take this person? I go to church with and I care about them. Make sure you protect them. Every single business that I've ever bought as had that story and those are very very real examples and if my employer listening they know exactly who. I was just talking about awesome. Okay so the next step I'm starting a little notional here. These are very this all especially right now with everything that's going on in. We're all just like you said earlier. Society's changing so massive we were all connecting in new in different ways than we have before it just. I think makes all of this so massively relevant right now so. Thank you for sharing these great examples. So let's say you go ahead and you identify what that potential business right might be right. So will you take us through the next step Nigel? Now that you've found it. How do you negotiate? How negotiate those terms duration the price? And so on. How do you know how much to offer? How do you know what to ask for? What is that next? Step so the first and foremost most important things stood cashflow. How much does this business cash flow and these are the important words to know as is how is where is so as it sits how it is where it sits. How do I make sure that this business cash flow so that I can give you as the investor in the buyer of this business as it sits now assuming that I don't approve at all? How can I make sure you get the most amount of cash if you're going to carry some of this note as a creative finance solution so based off that if we know what the cash flow is we can reverse engineer. What the monthly payments can be once we figure out what the monthly payments can be. We can then adjust what the price the rate and the duration are. If you just get into a simple google alone calculator you can figure it out. Based on what it is now you need to retain some of that profitability for a safety net and as a new business owner. You're going to have some hiccups that are GONNA dip down. So there's some risk tolerance but you're also gonNA have some new ideas that are going to put this thing on steroids and Jack it up as well so you've gotta find where that happy medium is and what to find that happy medium. You just hit that price. I always offer Azziz. How is where is that? It's GonNa Finance based on that so we can negotiate the rate we can negotiate the press. We negotiate the terms. And we'd just maneuver the so that it works for everybody what I want is. I want that business owner to win. I WANNA win. I want employees to win. I want everybody to win Michael. Most of all with all of this and why I wanted to be on here specifically this week is I believe that we cannot leave a single business behind. Not One I love that show just to kind of reiterate this because again we have a lot of real estate investors out there who might think in terms of real estate in the real estate world. If you if I'm going to go buy an apartment building. Let's say there's always the struggle between what the seller it's worth and what the buyer thinks it's worth and the sellers thinking about well next year when you do some renovations and you raise the rents and you get better tenants in. It's going to be worth X. And you the buyer you think well based on the amount of renovations you have today and the amount of rent that's bringing in the occupancy today this is what it's worth today and when you say as is how as whereas you're essentially talking about what the situation is today and so you're not going to be paying again in the real estate world. You're not paying an owner. What you're building is going to be generating in rent next year you're paying based on what it's generating today. So if I find a business and I find out the cash flow and the cash flow is basically your profit like after all. Your expenses are paid at the end of the day before taxes. This is how much money you're bringing in. Let's say you have a business that's bringing twenty thousand dollars a month. You're Dow thinking okay. I know this business bringing twenty thousand dollars a month. I want to take some of that. Home is my profit but then there's going to be some of that that's left over that I can then use to pay be paying the owner the seller financing. I've been using that to pay off the business so if you know a business is generating twenty thousand a month. Maybe you're saying okay. I want half of that for me. I want half of that is my cash flow for the work. I'm doing the business building and then I'm willing to take the other half. Let's say ten thousand and give that to the business owner and so maybe that's ten thousand a month now over a year. That's one hundred twenty thousand dollars a year and I WANNA pay three hundred sixty thousand for this business so. I'm going to do that for the next three years. Is that kind of how the how you're thinking. That's exactly what I said. Well what if we what if we carry this through? And what were you making before? What were you keeping yourself? What were you reinjecting back in? And how do we get the number that you need to know what cash flow is and now we know what number they need now? We can fix price and we can fix rate and we can fix terms based on that. That's awesome I absolute as is how is where is because we don't need to pay for blue sky and this might sound harsh but the facts are is. I shouldn't pay somebody else for my efforts. Should pay me for my efforts in in that owners should also respect in the fact that if they want this to continue on they need me to be profitable and that doesn't mean take advantage of that of that buyer or take advantage of that seller from either side. I never want to beat up the by the seller of the business. Because they're carrying the no. We're in this together. This isn't a me versus them. This is a me and them if they're carrying on this and we're doing creative solution financing you know where they're carrying the land in and I got the SBA loan. Why would I want to beat them up? I WanNa take care of these people. These are my partners in this and so I can get into a business that I don't necessarily know everything about because they have the expertise. The one caveat on every single deal I've cut is that I have to deliver the checks to them personally every month. I do that because those people ask me. Hey what's going on in the business this week? Hey this is the problem. Here's what's going on. Here's what I've got. You know what they WANNA do. They've been in the game for thirty years. They want back in. They don't want the headaches but they want to solve that solution. They want that drop dopamine in their brand that goes. Hey I just solved this. I've got I've got my dairy favorite people in the world that carried on this Sherwood deal and talk to him every month. They're smarter than either way better and appliances then and when I need advice you know what I do. I Call Tom and Carol. That's that's there and and they're amazing and I drop off the check for the land. I dropped that. I dropped off in their living room and we sit down and we have a soda pop or a beer at lunchtime and carols and amazing. Cook and she'll she'll make something in have some brownies. I walk out of their three pounds heavier than I should. But I'm smarter because it because they have thirty plus years of experience and while they're tired they're still passionate about their people and so when I have to make that tough decision they can make it form. The funny thing is you're walking into their living room hand delivering a check. They feel like you're doing them a favor. Your hand delivering them a check. You're giving them their money. You're making sure they get paid. They're like wow. This guy's great. He's he's literally coming into our living room. And meanwhile you're sitting there thinking no they're doing me a favor. I get to go stand in their living room and talk to these people that ran business for however many years that no part of this business better than you ever will. And they're going to sit there basically free consults and they're they're thanking you for it because your hand delivering them a check and not just really consultants. They're passionate consultants. They're absolutely passionate. They have a stake in the game to know this thing's going to succeed you know they're my best pr people. They don't even live in the town anymore. They live about an hour and a half drive south. You know I post something on facebook for our business in the first person who will like in. Every single time is going to be Carol Vincent I guarantee and why some because she cares she cares and we just refinanced the property out and and the one caveat she said when we pay them out because we refinance a land because we did get a heck of a deal in and they had some health issues that said. Hey here's what we're GONNA do. I don't want to get into that. But we refinance out because it was in everybody's best best case for everybody and when she did she says. Here's the one caveat assign this to do this because we we want to do this but you start come by once a month You don't get a not come by on the seventeenth of the month. I'm like please you guys know how to navigate this because they were there in there in eighty seven there were there in seventy two. You know they. They've done it and their way better than me. And so the one thing I will say is when when I came into business as a young guy. I was probably the most arrogant cocky ruthless. Go at type of guy the last few years might shift has changed one hundred percent and I care more about that relationship. I know that if I went broke tomorrow. Three hundred sixty five days from now. I'm still sitting seven figures because I can figure it out and I believe that anybody can do it. I'm not any smarter than anybody else. I have one skill that stronger than anybody else. And that is I m relentless I'm absolutely relentless and I believe in this economy. I believe that we're GONNA come back and I believe that the people who are listening right now can go make it happen. And I believe that they can be relentless we just have to go and we just have to fight have to go and have to go and have to go. I I love it. Yeah we're definitely a situation these days where there's a lot of opportunity to find these and you can call them sellers but what they are is they're partners we can go and we can find these partners. These people that that are looking for a solution for their business problem and that solution is you being able to give them an annuity monthly cash that you're paying them for their business to give them continuity to give them a paying them every month to the land underneath their property. Basically you're helping them. They're helping you and together. You're helping all of your customers in their employees. Yeah and that's exactly where we need to be. I mean we're going to rebuild this thing back up in thirty sixty ninety days. There's going to be people who are tired. They're going to be people who say you know? How much more risk do I need to take? And so what I'd ask everybody. Who's listening right now? Find that business. That in thirty days doesn't reopen that. The people say you know what I'm just tired. Call HIM UP. Get on lengthy and get on instagram. Get on facebook. Find out where these people are going to go to the good of the Chamber of Commerce. Find out where they are in. Don't leave one single business behind without saying. Hey how do I resurrect this? How do I build this? Because if it existed ninety days it'll exist one hundred ninety days from now you know we just have to look and say how do we retain that as as a country and there's so much opportunity you know with with the real estate market doing what it is? There's a lot of risk in that. What if people don't pay right well? Why don't we control the variables we can when we build back our towns one small business at a time. Start WITH ANYBODY. Who's listening right now? Should have no excuse why they don't get on Biz. Buy-sell dot com or just swing by one of the businesses. That had look up and say. Hey you know what? Xyz mom-and-pop business about you. I WanNa make sure you make it through and if you're too tired to do it here's my back right on me. I love it and let me put something else out. And I I assume that this is probably purposeful and I'll let you talk about this more. Maybe it's it's probably obvious to you. Which is why you didn't mention it but it's probably not obvious to a lot of us the types of businesses that you mentioned laundromat appliance repair glass. These are all businesses that are recession proof industry their service industries the recession proof and these are businesses. That if you're buying today it doesn't matter if six months from now we recovering the economy's fantastic and and the Dow was at thirty thousand again worth six months from now. Unemployment still at eight percent and the stock market is down and real estate values shutdown. It doesn't matter. These are the types of businesses that are gonNA do well throughout any phase of the economic cycle and so it just adds an extra layer protection. Is that something? You've you've purposely focused owners that just absolutely okay so I have A. I have a super huge passion. I think our education systems kind of flawed personally. And I think that we've we've overvalued you know like I said I got my degree in German after high school for a year. I was junior ambassador. Us Congress and spent a year and a half in Germany different education system than us. And I I see the same thing that Robert Chiaki talks about our education. We have a lot of schooling but not a lot of educated people and the problem is is right now. You know that blue collar job. That's important you know. There's nothing too shy at plumber. Who's making eighty five grand a year because a lot of plumbers are making eighty-five grant a lot of here's the thing when I with the glazing company when I sold out we had one hundred fifty employees and over one hundred of a made six figures a year? We didn't have twenty five of those guys that had graduated college. We didn't have fifty those guys that had gone to college. These are union glazer's that were making one hundred thousand bucks now putting in storefront window recession proof because the facts are that bank still needs windows. Skyscrapers still needs windows. That applebee's that whatever you've got they need windows' so we have to put him in store windows. It was there but to many people say I need to go school. I need to do this. And so they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on this education to go get a bachelor of Arts in whatever studies that they've got they've got two hundred thousand dollars in debt and then they owe thirty they make thirty five thousand dollars a year. And then there snickering at the guy. Who's a Union Guy? Who's making eighty five thousand bucks a year putting in windows or my service exit or making twenty twenty five thirty bucks an hour as a service tech fixing appliances today? That are working today while those guys that have their bachelor's at two hundred thousand dollars debt or one hundred thousand dollars debt or leaving their you know their nonessential job at forty thousand bucks a year. You know we've got we've got it wrong because it doesn't look like those guys are successful in the eyes of instagram. I don't care what instagram says I wear I wear baseball hat and a polo shirt. Most of the time you know I don't care. I drive a Toyota Corolla with crack in the windshield. I don't need instagram to know who who I am or what I am you know. I want to know what the banker when I walk in the business to the bank. I want the small local banker. The Guy who's a prison at bank to stand up and go Mr Geissinger. It's good to see you today. I don't care if somebody recognizes me at the bar or offer this feed or anywhere else. What carries that John Wilburn? Who's the president of pioneer dress? Knows who I am that the guys at Willamette Valley Bank my local bank know who I am. That's what's important that the guy that will admit community bank Norway see I build relationships with the small banks because those are the guys that are going to be there. It's not going to be J. P. Morgan Chase Jamie Dimon at J.P. Morgan is now at Jason's. Never GonNa take a call from me you know. He's the CEO of that bank. But John Wilburn at pioneer trust if I called him right now on this podcast. He picked up into rinks. That's what you want. That's the relationship because businesses ultimately about relationships and for so long. We've skewed this to say it's about the flash in the cash. It's not it's about. How do I fix one washing machine at a time? I don't WanNa make it so that when you know the biggest story I can say about my industry to this is added Gal call. I'm just before Thanksgiving with a broken broken range in her issue was it wasn't about the the the range at all she broke down starts crying and says you know what this isn't about dinner. This isn't about this. It's at my mother-in-law is GonNa be here tomorrow and for thirty years. She stopped that I wasn't a good enough wife. So what did I do? It was six o'clock at night and I by myself delivered stove. I don't know how to install the stove. I learned literally Youtube how to put this thing together as the owner of the company. But I couldn't let this go because this wasn't about the stove this Gal's breaking down because it's not about the stove. It's not about any of that. It's about the relationship behind it and that she wanted to prove. Hey I'm a good wife for my husband and to my mother-in-law and so there's so many of those small stories and we we missed this. This is so much more important than the marketing than anything else. This is what we have in. This is what small businesses built on in. I can't build back. You know the economy by myself what I need is I need seven million people come with me and said we're going to take one more step. There are so many amazing stories in here so many good nuggets so many I mean it's not about the flash in the cash in the. I don't care about instagram. Knowing me I care about my small local banker knowing me. They're just so many powerful messages throughout all of this. So what's next for you? I mean I can only I can't even begin to imagine you've done so many amazing things. What is next for Nigel? So you know. I don't know to be honest. I'm trying to grow You know and and build this back what I'm really passionate about. In fact I called Duck Talk to my state representative last week. Instead you'll my passion is one thing right now it is. I WanNa make sure that as we come out of this that we don't leave one business behind not one. I don't want to lose a single business and I don't WanNa see any of these three hundred and sixty thousand businesses that wrapped up last year. Just wrap up. I WANNA see two hundred thousand. Mba students that graduate come in and take these businesses. I WANNA see businesses be built where we have the relationship. I in that we actually care about our employees and what I've done here in the last week if you'd asked me this two weeks ago at a city ham just gonNa grow my business and do me but in the last two weeks. I've probably had about five hundred people call me and says hey how do I? How do I navigate this shift? How do I navigate through the cares act? How do I navigate through? Sba navigate for this growth. And so one of my buddies who has a company called all the leads. His name's Chad Corbett. He says you know what we're in now is. We're not in a small economy anymore. We're GONNA professional market. We need professionals to come in. Sba SBA graduates to come in and fix this thing. One business owner at a time and step up our game and so he and I started and we just launched it. It's a website called your small business. Hub Dot Com. And what we're going to do is we're GONNA just give out advice of how to buy businesses how to purchase businesses creative financing some mentorship some consulting how to navigate the cares process. We're not trying to generate revenue. What we want is we want to retain every business. My Passion is. I don't WanNa see anybody go behind even the competitors who. I was dogfighting out with three weeks ago. I WANNA fight him again. I don't WANNA see them lose to this. I don't want to knock them out. I don't want that Zebra to die because of hunger. I want it because is ally and I'm GonNa go attack and take them out. I don't want them to die of famine and right now what's that mean it means that? I got prop them up and so I believe that we all need to prop businesses right now and we need to start locally and this is going to happen one person in your town today saying you know what not today this far no further. I love it I absolutely love it. Okay I want you to leave us before we jump into the four more segment of the show. I want you to leave us with a call to action for all of our listeners. Out there who are listening to this and thinking. I'm excited I'm inspired. I am ready to go. Be One of those seven million. That's going to buy a small business and grow a small business and I WANNA do it tomorrow. Give us a call to action perfect. Okay here's call what I want you to do tomorrow. Is I want you to list? Three businesses right amount find out who of those businesses in your town find the businesses that are owned by somebody. Who's a baby boomer and I want you to actually make contact with them? I want you to call them up. And just say hey. How's Your Business Doing? How can I support you? Are you thinking about wrapping it up and if so how can I stop that from happening? What support can I give you? Not Economic Aid. How can I go buy a gift card at Your restaurant? I mean how can I partner with you? I want you to call three businesses. I want you to find out who the owners are. I want you to actually make contact with them. What you have meaningful conversation with them and I want you to ask them. What do they need to that together? You and them three hundred sixty five days from now. Arcachon button taking names and that that business is thriving and so unique call. Three two of them are gonNA tell you to pound sand. One of them is going to say. You know what let's do this and if all three of them a tech with it you know what you need to call three more and then call three more and call three more until you get one person who says you know what I'm tired. I don't have the energy to do this. Back by like your spunk. And we're GONNA do this together. So once they action step before you go back to work with people are laid off right now. Listen to this before you go back to work. You better find somebody because there are ample businesses and social. Media's amazing we can get on facebook we'd get on linked in we can get on. Instagram. You can find who these people are. You know if you Google my name. I guarantee you'll be able to find my home. Address drive to their house holdup note like love. Actually I loved Your Business. Can I buy? What can we do together? I don't care how you do get creative but action step is actually do something if people are listening to this and they don't make a step. I'm just going to say I'm disappointed because the reason that I'm on here with you guys today. The reason I'm taking my time is because I actually believe that this can be fixed and it's not going to be fixed because somebody in the White House because of the four hundred and somewhat people in Congress one hundred one hundred senators that we have. It's going to be taken in seven million steps one step at a time in seven billion people saying. I'm not letting this business bill. I'm not letting this happen to my town so I'm drawing the line and I'll take the first step I love it and I just need to say one more thing because this is so important all the people out there I talked to again. I'm taking this back to real estate. I always take it back to real estate but all the people out there that I talked to that say yes. It's too hard to find. Good real estate deals these days. I wish I were doing this. Back in two thousand ten and eleven and twelve. Because that's what all the good deals were. And I missed the boat and Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. Let me tell you something in the business world to day tomorrow next month next year is the two thousand nine ten and eleven of the real estate world. These are going to be the best opportunities that we could see any in the last decade and potentially in the next decade. So don't ignore what Nigel saying here. Don't find yourself in two or five or ten years looking back and saying Damn I wish I would have taken action on on a business back in two thousand twenty when I first heard this because now now is the time that you're going to look back and say this was the opportunity. That's exactly. This is the moment I'm telling you you'RE GONNA see a lot of changes happen as things go politically interest culturally in our country in the near future as we come out of this thing and they're going to call it a movement of some sore. This isn't a movement. This isn't a movement. This is the moment jump on it right now. If you don't you're only cheating yourself I love it okay. I could talk for another ten hours. But we're about an hour and so so I think it's time to jump into that final segment of the show that we call four more where we ask you the same four questions that we ask all of our guests and then give you an opportunity to tell us more about where our listeners can connect and find out more about you. Sound good perfect excellent okay. I'm GonNa take the first question. What is your very first. You've already told a show. I I don't I don't I don't WanNa hear the first your first. You're selling rocks on the beach. Which was awesome. I want to hear about the worst job you ever had. And what you learn from it. Oh man so to pay my way through school at Oregon State. I was a sewer. Pipe Layer. And I don't WanNa get edited here but that means exactly what you think it means. It means that you are in live. Human feces like lane sewer pipe yet. No it's a really crappy job like as bad as gets but the thing that I got from. I have a superintendent who worked for me who super blessed to have this guy. He's built like a Mike an ox guy. Six Foot Five. Six thousand six former bodybuilder. Just yoked and he and I were working in chess. Waiters dry waiters in human feces working on wrenching. In this this big pipe that was coming in and he dropped his wrench in live sewer and he reaches down their hand picks up his wrench and goes back to work. And I can see. Your spaces just cringing right now. And that's exactly what my face did. And he looked at me and he says wanted to remember. This is the guy. Who's WHO's your form as your superintendent. I want you to remember this. I'm never going to ask you to do something I wouldn't do myself and I'll reach him. Light Shit he says. If you're going to be a leader you lead from the front. You never tell people to do something. You won't do but know that if I ask you how to do this. This is how serious I am. And he reached down and grabbed his wrench and went back to work. Didn't cringe didn't do anything. Just did it. Now that's where we are as an economy and that's that's the most important lesson I got from the worst job ever did because nothing sounds horrible. Like you have to change your clothes before getting your car every day. That's what we had to do at is an amazing story. Oh my goodness okay. Second question is if you had to go back in time. So what would you do differently? And the point of this question is what can you. What action items? What tips can you give to an entrepreneur? Who's just starting out. So they don't have to learn the hard way something that you learn the hard way on. I would have been a heck of a lot less cocky. I was really overly cocky individual coming into business because I've always found success through tenacity through relentlessness. Whatever it is and eventually we all go up and we all go down and so if I could give my my younger self some better advice it would have been. Hey on the way up. Be a lot nicer. You know. Be a lot more. Have a lot more mercy. I didn't have that. And and that's that's a character flaw that I had and I'd be line of I said I'm nasty dead because I haven't I'm working at IT I. I would have told myself be way more compassionate because there's a lot of effort that these other competitors have put in and it sucks watching this thing get hurt and so we're all GonNa. We're all going to experience a highs. We're all GONNA experience lows. I was absolutely jacked when we when we build somebody up and or take somebody out and you know. I shouldn't have let that high gets so high and shouldn't let the low skit Solo so that would be my advice. You know even when you're when you're in the mess don't don't get too high. Don't get too low and That's advice that I have to tell myself. Even as soon as as last night I was a little sad because I had to for people who I love and That's that's just what happens in so I I had to do what what other people have to do before. So knowing that we're all gonna be there in so have that compassion that you should have never as good as it seem. It's never as bad as seems. That's right okay. Number three This one is going to be a little bit lighter. Note which favorite book ooh favorite book. Boy I took a challenge this year and I'm working on it of reading the Bible all the way through and and so. I'm doing the daily Bible thing this this year. So that's my very favorite book but when it comes to business. There's a book that most people haven't ever heard there's a book called. Give them the pickle by Robert Ferrell and Bob Farrell owned Farrell's ice cream parlor on the west coast in Seattle and Portland. They were an old timey ice cream store. And Bob Farrow's book given the pickle talks about customer service and why he started up. Farrell's ice cream parlor Farrell's ICE CREAM PARLOR. When he sold out had a one hundred percent success rate in an industry that has a ninety percent failure rate and the reason in the story of give him the pickle as he had a customer who came in and ate lunch every single day and he had a new employees who've made their sandwich and didn't give a pickle. The people wanted an the guy wanted a pickle with his meal every single day. That was what he wanted with his sandwich. And the customer. The guy comes up to the counter. And says hey. I didn't get my pickle and they said well that'll be twenty five cents and Bob. Farrell lost his mind and he right in front of in front of a customer in front of in front of the employee said. Let me break down the math for you. Bob Fare wasn't amazing analytical mind. He says this guy has been in here for ten years eating lunch every day. That's three hundred sixty five days a year at five dollars a year times ten years. This pickle doesn't mean anything. He grabbed a jar pickles and handed it to him. And said anytime you come in you can have a jar of pickles will give you the pickle and they made a big sign then afterwards every one of his employees. Give them the pickle. This guy has spent I five thousand bucks in solely because they gave him a free pickle and so he says you know what what are we. We're tripping over this life customer. Who eats with US every single day? Over twenty five cent pickle. How STUPID ARE WE BUSINESS? If we don't give them the pickle just give them the pickle. Give him the pickle and he was. He was an amazing amazing businessman. He had Newport Bay restaurant he had Stanford's and and Farrell's ice cream parlor. He's since passed a his company he sold before he passed but amazing businessman. He lived it and it's a really quick read. You could probably read it in twenty minutes but it's called. Give them the pickle. Give him the Pequot not often that somebody recommends a book on here that. I'd never even heard of but I Because you did. I actually ordered that while you're telling the story so the story that I've ordered the book you can go back and play this. Podcast engage is good for everybody. I want the book. There's a spot on your bookshelf. Just for it okay. So here is our fourth question of the former so Nigel. A lot of people we talked to. You're not in a fancy cars. I mean you told us about your Toyota Corolla with crack windshield. Were the same way. A lot of entrepreneurs are so what is something in your personal or professional life that you've splurged on along the way that was totally worth it. Yes so that's a hard one because I really don't splurge a lot and this was out of all the things when we filled out the paperwork. What's the one that's a difficult to fill out? We bought a about four years ago. We bought a through my property holding company. We bought a Lake. House that we use we were able to. We hadn't moved up on anybody for a long time. And so I mean for like years and so we made a modest move of about fifty dollars per unit up on everybody and we have a couple of hundred units and so then we bought the town home style. Lake House In Lincoln City devils. Like and you know when things get stressful. That's where we went. You know that's where we go and we go and you'll go kayaking in so it's just a small little lake. It's called Devil's Lake in Lincoln City and It's about a mile away from the beach. So you can be on the beach you can be at the lake. I didn't spend a lot of spent like two hundred and thirty thousand bucks on a two bedroom condo. I've got four kids. You know I mean this thing's tight but it's just enough that we can all go in and relaxing. Get away from from our house. It's about an hour drive away and it allows me especially if I have a difficult day. Go sit and I do work there. I've called customers from there since it's an hour drive to my house and said going to office sometimes. I'll do my work from there Just to to have a little bit different scenery so I haven't really ever splurged on cars. No big trips. I'm not a Extreme lifestyle type. A Guy I get to sit and watch my kids go fishing off the dock and never catch a fish and I get to watch you know my kids You Know Kayak and get to go out there and just around in a Kayak or canoe or whatever we've got one of those paddle boats you know that we bought it for three hundred bucks off craigslist. I mean we're just just relaxing to spend time on the family because if anything right now know that families the very very most important that exists. And that's why I say it's all about the small business. It's all about the small community. It's all about your family in. I don't ever WanNa be that guy with the Ferrari. That's not my that's my my ideal say I don't I don't want to be flashy. I don't want everybody know me. I want the banker to know me. And that's what's important loving awesome okay. That's the four. Let's jump into the more part of the four more and that's where you tell our listeners where they can find out more about you how they can connect with you and anything else you want to tell us about pitch so I guess saying is like I said earlier starting up a website or just just getting up and going for called your small business hub dot com. That's where we're going to be helping people with just assets and information as to how to buy and sell businesses how to get creative financing assistance for some mentorship some consulting and how to navigate the cares package right now. This thing's going to be ever evolving. It's mainly just a passion project to help people. Just get out there and keep this economy going and keeping small businesses going. I do have linked in but I don't know how to log into to. Don't get me up there because I don't even know. I don't even know what the Password is. I am on instagram. I am on facebook and my commitment is if you send me a message through instagram. I will respond back to you no matter who it is no matter what it is. I will respond back and I will do whatever I can because I truly believe that right now. My my obligation to society is that I need to help. Businesses thrive and to help people grow. And I WANNA help people who've never been in business. Get there so it's just Nigel. Geissinger at instagram and Just all spelled out so you guys need anything. I'm here. I want to support people and I know that No one person can do it by themselves. Awesome Nigel for everybody out there listening. If you want to see links everything you just mentioned there in the show notes so check out our show notes Nadia. This is fantastic. I ASSUME WE'RE GONNA be back at the bigger pockets conference later this year. So hopefully we'll have a chance to chat again. I'm very interested to see what what's in store for you the next six months and I've feel you're going to be pretty busy so looking forward to chat with you in a few months but thank you so much for being here and would love to have you back next year just to hear what opportunities you were able to take advantage of during the tumultuous economic time. Absolutely anytime you guys want me. I'm here for you guys anytime awesome. Thanks Nigel thank you so okay. I gotta be honest. If after listening to that episode. Everybody is listening to this. Show doesn't get off their butts in the next twenty four hours and go out there and start driving around if you're willing to drive around people don't WanNa leave their house. If you're not looking to leave your house then go hop on google earth or Google maps or would ever use and do a search of all the businesses around your area and start doing some research and start picking up the phone and calling those owners just to talk to them and say. Hey what's going on? How can I help you and start working on putting together a deal because Nigel made a great point? If you start today three hundred and sixty five days from now you're going to be in a much much much better position a creed and let's not forget here reminded us that if we don't jump on it right about now we are going to be kicking ourselves a few years from now saying why did it. I go after that opportunity when it was right there in front of me. So this episode. I feel exactly exactly exactly what we all needed to hear right about now. It was uplifting inspirational and it was full of action packed tips. So thank you so much until that was fantastic. Yeah fantastic episode. Okay everybody you have a Wonderful Week. Go Get out there start. Finding businesses calling business owners talking business owners and put together some offers this week everybody. She's Carol I'm Jay. Pick up that phone call three businesses today. Three three three three is the magic number of people. Get OUT THERE. Get after it. Stay safe stay healthy. Thanks for tuning in see everybody.

business owner Nigel Geissinger Iraq SBA Mba US Jay Scott Hybrid Real Estate Entrepreneu jack America Mrs Carol Scott Salem Oregon Oregon State Salem Kaiser Station
My Husband Hid $140,000 in Debt! (Hour 3)

The Dave Ramsey Show

40:56 min | 1 year ago

My Husband Hid $140,000 in Debt! (Hour 3)

"The why of Ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios. It's the Dave Ramsey show. Work debt is dumb. Cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five. That's triple eight eight two five five of a two to five. Kim is starting off this hour in Florida. Hi Kim how're you doing. Great how are you dave. I deserve what's up in your world. Well let's see I learned about nine months ago that my husband had acquired that I did not know about I've always lived completely debt. Free prior to US getting married which I didn't get married till I was thirty six and owned a house at the time and paid cash for my car brand new. Didn't know about you about moment but So Oh married then. Fourteen years into the marriage macho what happened. He is a big follower of you and we've attended two of your live by the vents I enter these to you when we first started spending and have he's even taught. SP before at our church which in our last you know place where we're living so I learned out of the blue that he had charged on a credit card. About fifty thousand dollars and there were a couple of other credit cards as well that he eventually admitted to ten he had also Taken taking withdrawals from IRA and amount of about eighty thousand. So needless to say this is quite devastating to a marriage and to me ooh so inconsistent with everything else that you know about him. It tells us that there must be some extreme thing going gone yes lucky. He's leading a double life for some reason which indicates fair or an addiction. Or something. Like that what's going on right. I asked him point blank. Denies any sort of affair. Although meeting the person I am I ordered all the credit card statements And looked at those and I can't there are things on there that would lead me to think and believe that that could have possibly gone on whether well there's something that's inconsistent. I mean because he's leading a double life agreed. I mean he not only lied about this and hit it. It is an extreme amount. And it's not like he was you know this is a guy who taught financial versity claims to live one way and is doing things that are absolutely perpendicular to that which tells us. There's some kind of extreme switch is flipped in his head. Right I I I would think now I will tell you that we have made a big move and he had gone through several job changes changes and had gone from making close to two hundred thousand dollars a year to less than half of that and in the midst of all of that Bought a house and I kept saying. Let's find out exactly what we want to pay for a mortgage. Let's look at all our investments and that was kind of ignore it and we. We bought the home and his jobs. Continue to change and not get better And so am I mean while we were renovating in some on this house. So he has led me to believe that this was all that and things were just hide and they got out of control troll any not involved enough in the budget to know where all the current money that he was making was going therefore knowing it was enough right right because he took over all of the finances which is also talk with everything else. You told me about what he's been taught right shot. Well we started before I knew about all of this and of course because is that was not based on all of the absolute truth We had stopped seeing that gentleman saying well. He's not really helping. And then I went back to my own Counselor and I have been seeing that person and He has read a book and told me he thinks. He's CO dependent. And I am not certainly thinks he's codependent right right. I'm not certain where he no no. He's not codependent as a liar. Different Than Codependence uh-huh he's a deceiver I don't know what the root of his deception is. But that's not codependence. I mean he's lied and not just a little. I mean dream amounts of lies and hiding has worked very very hard to hide this from you in hand. What's most disturbing is not just? That is that he that it is so perpendicular to everything he claimed claimed to be and so it. I don't know in my experience and if you were my friends and you to shut down at the table able with a cup of coffee with Sharon me I would not be very gentle with him. I would've I would've been ripping him to shreds not because he didn't follow my stuff but because I'm going to try to find out where the what's really going on down in here 'cause something some kind of a switch flip that is not good there is there is an addiction. Or there's an affair I'll give you a ninety percent probability one or the other. There's a gambling addiction and There's a honey on the side. There's a pornography thing going on with prostitution there is. I'm not trying to be melodramatic. It's just too extreme extreme. It's too extreme the dichotomy of who it's so opposite and so so perpendicular to everything we know about this man until we learn this and then he doesn't come clean right intro to rationalize it away and sweep it under the rug which that tells me more addiction than Affair Fair But I don't know I'm not a mental health counselor. I've just worked with them in situations like this for thirty years. And so I I can just smell these rats. So I'm the I'm so sorry horrible thing for you. All to go through and honorable that he went through this job. Loss in it led lead to whatever this other thing is because their self-esteem hit on all that is probably precipitated. Someone but Very much an Alpha male on yeah for sure this office team you know I wanNA help them. Whether we're together or not I want him to be healed and whatever it is because okay well this is the for you. The normal on normal mentally stable person in your show shoes would have all the the same oceans of one hundred and forty thousand of hidden debt. We call it financial infidelity in our world because you process the same trust emotions. Sion's being broken as if he had come in and said he had an affair with the secretary Touches the same button for you if you're a normal human being and so what that means is that you need to get really good counseling and not financial counseling but a good counselor in your corner. And if he wants to engage in some healing with a quality marriage. Counselor that a call out all the BS that I'm seeing and you're seeing in his life and help him start to clean it out You guys have a chance to turn this around. I'm so sorry I'm sorry. This is the Dave Ramsey show. You've been working hard to get control of your money but if you do this one simple thing that we all do do. You are literally at risk of being hacked and someone stealing what you've worked so hard for. Do you ever use public Wifi. Hackers can use a simple bowl device to mimic WIFI with just a little bit of skills. They can take over your financial life. That's why I trust cyber ghost. VPN TRY IT for free for seven days protect up to seven Internet devices and keep all of your internet connections secure Download Cyber Ghost. VPN Today eight from your APP store Wow whether you're putting in a kitchen sink or fixing a gas leak or working on your car. These days are certain things. You just. Don't do for yourself. I don't pull my own teeth either. You don't. Diy everything to save money. Do It yourself some things you can do it yourself but we live in a culture today where people know. I know what they're doing. They're called experts and they can help you change everything that includes doing your taxes if you have complicated taxes now if you have a very uncomplicated tax turn you're not need to pay a pro bunch of money to do this but if you have a complicated tax return a few things here or there you very well likely could save Mon- enough money on your taxes to pay the pro. I can promise you I do not work on my own car. I opened the hood the other day it the whole thing looks plastic. You have to remove like seven things just to see the engine. The chances of me knowing what to do under that hood is zero now and I used to fix all the stuff when I was sixteen. Eighteen twenty five years old. But I can't do that now and I'll do my own taxes anymore either but when I was twenty I did mound taxes but everything was simple. The car was simple then and the taxes were simple. Then they're not now so go to Daveramsey dot com slash tax quiz and take our quick quick assessment in five minutes. We'll help you figure out if you should follow yourself or if you're better off using a tax pro and we will tell you the truth. Go to Daveramsey DOT com slash tax quiz to start the quiz today. Tim Is with us. Tim is in Missouri. Tom How are you. Hey Dave I'm doing well. How about yourself better than I deserve? What's up well? I am currently working through the baby steps. I'm currently on baby steps. Three and four saving fifteen percent of my income for retirement and then also even a bunch of money for Hopefully House that's down payment in a upcoming wedding eighteen months all right trying to figure out what intensity as you go with because my fiancee has that. I'm saving up money for that as well. So when you're dealing Gazelle intensity or should I be kind of living why you're buying furniture here. Upgrading my car. Things like that I think paying for weddings more important on a car so I don't think I'd be the car until I had the wedding. I think the day that you get married and come home from the honeymoon writing a check and paying off hurlher debts. More important than you. Upgrading Car I think a few other things are so just using the car upgrade as an example of a luxurious. Take it easy kind of thing. This example you used right so yeah yeah but I mean what I always do stuff like this man is I just sit down and say okay. What do I want the most? It's not that I can't get the other. It's that I'm GonNa get it second or third or fourth or fifth and so what I want most and if I'm in your shoes on what this wedding that's the most exciting thing in in your life right now isn't it. Oh Yeah Yeah for sure just more Taken back I send calling in listening for you know I. Yeah I mean if I'm if I'm your when you're all I think about if I was getting married that's the whole thing and you know your financial goal tube because paying for the wedding is a big deal and so how much do you need for the the wedding Thinking about fifteen thousand. Okay have you all set a budget yet Still in the early stages of planning but we're thinking it will probably be around fifteen or twenty. Okay well then you need to say I got eighteen months to save that and so if it's eighteen months for eighteen thousand that's thousand dollars a month right. Yeah Okay and so we gotta have that budget. Oh by the way. If you got there in nine months you could move on to your next goal. You don't have to wait. Eighteen eighteen months to get there in fact. You can't because you're not giving you have to pay for most of it before you get there so But yeah you need to lay out your goals or exactly what it is. And it's you know what I'd do say all right. I'm GONNA stay Gazelle and to get that done and then I'm GonNa stay as Allenton still have enough additional savings to pay off her debt when we get home from the honeymoon and yeah and only then when I started talking about buying furniture upgrading because in a sense buying furniture upgrading grading is causing her debt. To hang around longer. After you're married that makes sense. Yeah so I'm just prioritizing. I'm just listening. What do I want? I wouldn't want second. What do I want third? And we'll get there to all the houses down the list. It's it's on down the list Before I save for a house in your situation I might move up in car or I might do some luxury things or whatever those are possible plays as well so But you know you just listed out and say this is what we want to do this. We Wanna I wanted to second and it was a great right. I remember the first time I actually implemented that strategy folks. It was like this awakening because we had always. I think we were just being melodramatic hillbillies you know we were just like everything was all or nothing right and it's like you have to fight to the death because it's all or nothing and we finally realized it's not no it's just which is i. It's yes to both everything on. His list is yes. The wedding the car upgrade the house purchase paying off her debt increasing the quality of his lifestyle. Loosening up. All of those are yeses just which yes comes first. That's all it is and it saying no to something so I can say yes to others. You're always going to do that because money's always finite but my wife was driving one of those This a thousand years ago. y'All remember those two tone ugly Blue Astro vans. They were nasty looking but we thought at the time there were cool had like bucket seats and it was like a mini van. But it wasn't a mini van was like between a real van a mini van kind of thing and back in the day right and the kids. The you know we had kids so this is GonNa be our kid holler caller but we drove the wheels off that thing and we raised several dogs and several kids in that van and it was nasty and it was worn completely freaking out. It was on the second transmission transmission. The old engine was on its last leg and You know so. We're out of debt. Finally we're booking long. We're doing pretty good but we still got this nasty. But uh-huh van right and the business was growing and I had this particular thing I could do down here at the business. It was like twenty five thousand dollars ars and I was pretty sure that if I took that twenty five thousand in place that there's GonNa make one hundred per T.. Shirt I mean it would take a few years to get it all back but I was it. It was a really as an investment. It was a growth thing in the business. I just really really really wanted to do. And my wife is not wanting she's really really really really really wanting to no longer drive this ugly but old Astro van and so we get this big argument about it. And it's like well you know it's like as if we we had to do one and not the other and I remember that fight because it was a breakthrough and finally just said wait a minute. We can actually do both. We just need fifty thousand instead of twenty five thousand and if we're going to buy twenty five thousand dollar car or a twenty five five thousand investment at the office. Oh we need fifty thousand if we're going to do both right and so we've got to have a where we're going so it's not a matter of never doing doing one or the other. It's just which one goes first as you might imagine the purchase of the twenty five thousand dollar suburban which was a five year overdue upgrade. This car considering all the Hell my wife had been through with me in this process And it was a small percentage of our income and everything else but as you might imagine the first twenty five went to her getting the the white suburban Oh that thing was a land yacht too so long but they still harvest. Don't make the same body the same wheelbase on that thing so big old frigging car anyway. We bought her her bought her that before we moved on and did the business and then we went ahead and did the business upgrade as well. There's just not it wasn't no to both which one is first. And that's really Tim's dichotomy. Not Yes or no which ones I. And this is the Dave Ramsey. Show the folks great news. Interest rates have dropped again my friends at Churchill mortgage can can lock in your fifteen year fixed rates for around three percent right now if you qualify. They're good for up to ninety days call Churchill immediately radiantly call them even. If you're just thinking about buying or refinancing home do it right now before these rates go back up all it takes ten minutes to see what you can qualify for call triple eight eight loan two hundred or Churchill mortgage dot com. This is a paid advertisement in. It one five nine one in the molest consumer access dot org equal housing lender seventeen forty nine mallory lane suite. One Hundred Brentwood Tennessee. Three seven zero seven and in the lobby of Ramsey solutions. On that debt freezed. restage is whether it's Jay. How are you? I can't hear her try one more time. Try again jail. NOPE nope still can't hear. You GotTa know. Can you hear me now. I can hear you magical when we push the right buttons back here okay. How are you? I'm doing doing great and yourself better than I deserve. Where do you live? I live in Salem Oregon. But I'm from Fort Lauderdale Florida. Cool all the way to Nashville from Oregon to do a debt. Free Scream Kareem. Yes good for you. How much have you paid off? I pay it off. Eighty four thousand four hundred good for you. And how long did this take you eighteen months. Wow and your range of income during that time hundred six thousand two hundred and thirty six thousand look at you. What do you do for a living? I am a nurse practitioner specializing in nurse. Midwifery of of course specializing in nurse. What Midwifery Oh? I couldn't get the whiff report okay. Took me a second. I'm a little slow on the uptake. All right eighty four thousand thousand. Boxing debt may be to be a nurse practitioner. Maybe student loan so it was fifty six thousand four hundred fifty nine thousand four hundred for student loans and the rest were my credit cards. Oh I moved to. Salem Oregon bought a beautiful home it was almost one hundred years old in caps wiping my card. I need this now. Yes absolutely. That's what happens. I see some things I need after a by the house Houses expensive but then filling it up. There's worse it is worse especially when it's one hundred years old and you walk into plumbing electrical need that for sure. Wow Wow good for for you okay. So eighteen months ago you're living in the house ripen the card just happy happy happy just broke as a just broke his broke and what happened. What woke you up? Well it was normal but then I finally became really frustrated. I was putting money into retirement. I bought a new home and I felt like I am just working to pay off debt. It's not going anywhere I've been fifteen years and I'm still looking at fifty. Eight hundred eighty four thousand and I'm like why not going away and something I I don't know I was looking on Youtube. And you came across and I was like. WHO's this guy with this country accent? What's what is this? This is crazy hillbillies Willie and then I just started listening to you everyday on you too. May People at work be real irritated about hearing you. But it's that's what worked for me over very cool so that made you stop and go okay. Maybe I need to adjust some stuff because what I've been doing hasn't been working absolutely so I started doing airbnb my whole. Oh Yeah I live in the attic so I have two rooms on the first level and I just thought something has to give. I started working extra shifts and I I started seeing that I cry. Student loan was paid off. I was like Oh my gosh. It works well. I just kept going can do this. Credit cards paid off and get them chopped up and absolutely no way to go. So how's it feel free. It feels amazing and I had a discover card and I was like. You're not discovering anything they discovered is. I don't like you people have discovered yes and now I can just live life and I can travel and see family family and friends and the weight is off my chest and I'm like I did it. Yeah it was amazing. It's almost like when you graduated from school right. Yeah if you've pushed and pushed in pushed and pushed to get that goal and then you finally get there like analysts already pounds. Go Look at you go. Yeah that's awesome. It is well disciplined begets discipline discipline out here. So well done man. That is amazing. All right so when pick your friends that were going okay. I'm tired of listening to country guy with the accent on Youtube. They win but then they find out you paid eighty four thousand dollars in debt and they say wait a minute wait a minute how did you do that. What do you tell them? The keys they key is is knowing why you want to be free. And why did you want to be free. I wanted to be free to travel the world and I don't want my job to own me my money to work for me not working for my money with job very good. So where are you going to travel now trout. While I'm going to Vietnam in August and when I actually became debt that free September seventeenth of two thousand nineteen I went to the Dr. And that's actually. Why didn't my first free scream DA? Okay on the beach on the beach just yelling up listen to me God. I'm dead free. Love it good for you good for you so having a good why is a part of getting out of the dead. I agree with that. What else did you tactically due to get out? I can't people keep me accountable so there was a time when I wasn't listening to you as much coach and my Ama's would say well. Why isn't Dave on and I'm like Oh yeah I'm supposed to be sticking with it because that would be when I'm like well I WANNA go Out For lunch. That's not part of the Dave Ramsey plan. And so as soon as they were like. You're not listening. I was like okay. I'll get back to it so I gotta get back to it because I'm I'm not gonNA get out if I don't get to it right. I had to listen all the time and if I couldn't at work because I'm seeing patients than I would make sure when I'm home. I listen I'd be at the gym listening I'm cooking dinner listening in the car. Driving our to Portland to go. The podcast just wore you out. No I still love. I still watch it all right but I mean you had it on all all the time all the time. Oh my gosh. Wow that's absolutely amazing. Well congratulations who were your biggest cheerleaders your Ma's Ama's were my biggest cheerleader and one of them is here Sunday. My Mom's love and support. Yeah Yeah you. So what did your mom do grow when when you were growing up. What does she do for a living attendant? A flight attendant. Okay and you grew up where I grew up in Fort Lauderdale. You said that earlier. Yeah okay all right and so. She's watching her daughter. Who got the medical degree? Clean up this mess. She's got to be really proud. CIS gotta be really practice like looking at your kids like win like Addis Addis. You Change Your family tree. It's good for your mom so Yeah good for you very well done. Congratulations proud of you. Well well we got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you every day millionaires. Because that's definitely the next chapter in your story. I mean you're making one hundred hundred thirty six thousand dollars a year and and You WanNa be payments. I sure don't have anything that's amazing. I'm so proud of you very very well done. Jay from Salem Oregon Eighty four thousand dollars paid off in eighteen months making one hundred six to one hundred thirty six counted down. Let's hear a debt. Free scream three two one. I'm done in. This is how it's done. This is how it's done the proud of you very very good stuff. It takes an incredible amount of discipline and intellect to get through the The medical aw studies that Jay did To be able to get to be who she is and then to turn after that and apply that same. I'm Kinda disciplined and intellect to this situation and say eighty four thousand dollars in debt. I'm not getting traction. GotTa change some things and isn't it interesting. How you you just also need a voice in your head? We all need accountability. Someone that's just don't be stupid and then we also need somebody that's encouraging and says you can do this. You got this. I'm proud of you know you can do this. And you know. There's this combination that one two punch between Dhabi stupid and you got this. We gotTa have both people love US enough and that's me I'm here because I love you and I want you to win and I want you to be able to do this stuff and I'm Gonna I'm GonNa Straight up. Tell you when you're stupid you know. Oh that you call here on the air you'll get that but also tell you you can do it you can. You can win you. Can you can become wealthy in America today. You can live your dreams you can change your family tree you can set yourself in a position that you completely change the entire trajectory of everyone with your last name that follows you. Wow there once was an old man vanderbilt. That was the guy started it right right. There was an old man. Rockefeller that was the guy that started it right. There was an old man or Old Lady. Count it down there. You name the name. Someone changed that family tree to where now it's a household household name many many many many generations later. Why not you just a series of decisions you get to decide? Hi this is the Dave Ramsey. Show Yeah our scripture. Today proverbs. Two seven he stores up sound wisdom for the upright. He is a shield appealed to those who walk in integrity. Florence Nightingale said. I attribute my success to this. I never gave or took any excuse and Paul is with US policy in Texas. Hi Paul how are you Dave plugger to speak with you. been longtime first time caller. Well thanks chuck GONNA help Easy numbers parodies three I've got about three hundred thousand and I have a hundred thousand note left on my mortgage. I rent the house out and live in a one bedroom. I ran out the house his five bedroom and the question is should I pay off the house on schedule in ten years and let us continue to pay the rent and the property taxes and part the rent or should I pay the house off in twenty four to thirty six months. My thought was take all of my money and continue to Mac daughter my chest P and how old are you out I'm fifty no children's twice married now retired marriage and I have no no no debt and thirty thousand dollars in the bank. Okay then the three hundred thousand. You've done a great job. You can't touch the money that is currently in the TSP until you're fifty nine and a half without penalty right so we can't touch that money. The only question is how much we put into the TSP versus how much we pay down towards paying off your. You're home early. That's the only question and what we would tell you to do is tell is the same formula we use for everyone else. And that's baby. Step four is fifteen percent of your income should be going into retirement. Are you putting more than fifteen percent entity. ESP or less I'm lacking out everything and and I'm also doing this fifty years older catch-up Gfd so basically are you putting more than fifteen percent of your income into TSP. I don't thank you can. Yeah well it depends on what you make just how much you can put in there so Okay how much are you putting into. ESPN including catch up Probably Twenty five thousand. Okay and what do you make a year with rental income. No okay okay. Well that's fine not counting rental income. What do you make a year? Probably wouldn't twenty okay so you're putting twenty one percent of your income into the Sp.. So I would back that down a little bit And you just basically say you said you're making one twenty right right okay. So one twenty I would just take that and just say one twenty and point one five is eighteen thousand dollars what you should be putting into your TSP. No no more everything above that should go to pay off your mortgage until your mortgage is paid off and and and then when you get the mortgage paid off then you you can max out everything and you're in baby step seven we would call it at this point. Here's the thing Paul. They're saying that people okay and you said it. A while ago is not accurate and that saying is the renters are paying off my house and paying off the taxes and all that no. They're not they're renters are paying rent. You were taking your rental income and choosing to pay on the house. But the renter's aren't paying anything they're paying rent went and they're gonna pay rent whether the house is paid off or whether the house isn't paid off they're going to pay rent and so that you know the fact that you have renters paying income Does not mean you do something different with the income. You still say fifteen percent of your income into retirement and then let's get the house paid off now. You do what you WANNA I do. But that's what I would do if I woke up in your shoes call is in Mississippi. Hi Cole welcome to the Dave Ramsey show. How are you better then I deserve? How can I help So I just have a Khalistan Just I'm graduating with a bachelor's and they start a Master's program Mansour three to four semesters being on when sponsor lets me graduate What are you studying biomedical engineering? Wow what are you going to do. actually make a artificial heart New prosthetic legs that okay okay. So that's the type of industry that you can go into with the training that you've had correct good cool that's awesome man yeah congratulations. You're obviously very bright Saudi and so on. So what's your question So I'll make I'll be able to pocket Five six six hundred dollars while I'm in my master's program Where at boss would you give me? As far as like after I graduate the masters you know renting a house buying lying investing like what advice would you give for nearly grab okay. Do you have any debt. No I got a bunch of scholarships for my bachelor's there's and Ma sponsor is going to be paying tuition and I'll make about eight thousand dollars before taxes Good so you don't have a card. You don't have card debt. You don't have any kind of debt credit cards. No nothing great white Gokhale good for you man very cool all right and so when you come. I'm out of school. Is Your job already lined up with the sponsor For My masters program. It's already long too. I mean when you finish your master's Astor's is what you're asking me about. You said what to do our education after I finish I won't have a job on the You know work work on that In a year when I get close to graduating waller memo masters there. I'll make a few hundred chopping that partner. Okay but it doesn't necessarily feed straight in. It's not like an internship or anything like that. It's just from there. You will decide what your you know in your last year your masters you'll start looking for that the big career job land as as of graduation. So what do you estimate you'll make Starting sixty five or seventy really a year. Is that all ya talk. Double that I mean yeah well it can get pretty. Ah that you just need some experience. I it's very specific field very interesting. Okay I would've guessed a master's degree in something as complicated as is that going into the field of medical device. Field would have paid a lot more. I just didn't know I've never run into that. That's very interesting. Okay cool well. Here's what I would. I would pile up cash as high as as you can possibly pilot in something simple something like a simple savings account or money market account that kind of thing if you WANNA put a little bit of it in something like like an S. and P. Five Hundred Index Fund. You can. It's not going to really make you any money. The biggest value that this pile of money is going to bring to you is is not the investment returns the biggest value. It's going to give. You is the flexibility to move to the wherever this new job Biz. That pays the most so. Let me give you an example. If you have no money to make a move and someone offers you the best job in the world but it's GonNa the cost you five thousand dollars to move. It's harder to take that job. Then you might take a lesser job to keep from having to go into all the move right but bob if you need to move across the country or something and you can get this big time Gig and it pays twice as much but you got ten thousand bucks saved up makes it really Lisi to do it. So your biggest point of transition in your life in transition always has expense to it is is upon graduation. or it's one one of the biggest points is right after graduation. So your main thing to concentrate on here sir. Finish this degree. It sounds like you're awfully academically talented audited stick with that. Push on through finish up no doubt whatsoever for any thing save up save up save up save up and then that gives you the money to make the move by a nicer car when you actually buy you a couch when you move and you get the new job and you don't have to You don't have to live sleeping on the floor for the first three weeks of your new job waiting on a paycheck to buy a mattress and that kind of stuff and people do that all the time coming out of college or are they going to debt to do to keep from doing that and so that's all this money is good for it it'll help you make the transition smoothly and It'll it'll be worth every it'll give you a complete real return on investment. It'll be worth the trouble that you went to to do this so very cool man camp good to talk to you call. Thank you very very much for joining us. We appreciate you hanging out. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey show in the books books. Our thanks to Zack Bennett filling in for James Childs today. Oh Daniel our associate producer and phone. Screener I am Dave Ramsey your host. We're back with you before you not. In the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace. Christ Jesus us this is James childs dialed producer of the Dave Ramsey. Show once again. You made the Dave Ramsey. Show one of the top five most downloaded podcast last year. To get your daily dose of motivation motivation and inspiration subscribed day. Money isn't the only thing we talk around here. Get life changing advice on your career from my good friend and career expert. Ken Coleman all the Ken Coleman show. According to a recent Gallup Gallup poll nearly seventy percent of Americans are disengaged at work if you dread going into work every Monday morning. And you're just trying to make it to the weekend. The the Ken Coleman Show is for you. Everyone has a sweet spot. Your sweet spot is at the intersection of your greatest talent and greatest passion. We will help you discover what it it is you were born to do. And then we'll help you create a plan to make your dream job a reality you matter and you have what it takes. Join the conversation nation on the Ken. Coleman show hear more from the Ramsey network including the Ken Coleman show. Where ever you listen to podcasts? Hey It's james producer of the Dave Ramsey Z.. Show this episode is over. Check the episode notes for links to products and services. You've heard about during this episode. Thanks for listening.

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You Lost Me Part 6

Other People's Shoes

42:18 min | 1 year ago

You Lost Me Part 6

"Welcoming to other people's shoes. I'm your host Neal. And today, we sit down with a gentleman by the name of Kirk. Now Kirk is the pastor currently of upward church here in Medford, Oregon, Kirk shares from pastoral perspective on why he thinks people should stay in church. And even when maybe it's time for people to move on from church to very unique perspectives. Hope you enjoy it because, you know, I'm ready. I hope you're ready. Let's go. Do something. Change older. Change. Welcome into other people's shoes. I'm your host Neal and today I get the privilege of sitting with a very kindred spirit where kindred spirits, and a lot of regards, but, but in one kind of superficial kindred spirits, we are both still maybe the long lasting Seahawk fans. So welcome in my guess Kirk Kirk. How are you? I'm doing great. Awesome. So Kirk, I always liked to lead every show off with what size shoes. Do you wear ten easy? That was that was easy. No question. All right. Ten I'm kind of surprised by that. I mean I'm like a ten and a half eleven but eight tenths fine. Do you have a certain pair of shoes that you really loved aware that just accentuate your outfit? Is that weird to say that way? I don't know STAN eating in camouflage, are you counselors guy? Yes. I am today I today or not. But, but that's okay. Okay. Is there a certain brand that you like above another no doesn't matter didn't care, don't care? Okay. As long as it's comfy. It's, it's, it's scaring me, okay? The idea, of course, is we're in your shoes. So that's why we kind of lead with that. So we're yeah. We're in tens camouflage shoes. No brand. So we're, we're going to KMart non brand. I wouldn't go that far. Fair enough. All right. So we'll just jump right in here, Kirk because I don't like to wait in the water at all. I like to just kind of splash in canon ball style. So so here we go. Why? And how did you get into church leadership because we're we're your passer, your passer of upward church. Let's throw that out there. Right. Brand new church and evaluate are how old now year and a half you're in half. And you guys are meeting, wear meet at lone, pine elementary school and service times, if ten AM, just one service one service, right? Okay. All right. All right. So how did you what's of your story in a nutshell of how you got into leadership? And then how you got into, you know, maybe planning churches. So what's, I'm not I guess I'm big on calling, but I'm not big on, you know, magical poof, calling overnight, I think calling is a process. I mean finding your calling happens over time. If you really diligent to, to be seeing what God has for you. And so for me that would be my story from nineteen on. It was it was a process of knowing I was leader by just getting my hands dirty being in ministry. I just started youth ministry, where can I serve what can I do not knowing what my calling was, and then through that process? It's always been. Okay. See that kind of good. At that, that's a gifting. I might have. And, and I remember the first time I preached was, I was thinking, it was twenty four I had no idea what I was doing. But there was something the senior pastor. I remember he was standing in the back and afterwards, he came up to me, and he said, you won't be here long. I had no idea what he exactly meant, but he just he saw something, and it wasn't I look back on the worst message of ever preach, but he saw something and gifting there. He's like, maybe I was really comfortable upfront. Whatever it was that he's like, yeah, I see that in you that's probably going to be something you're doing so calling is, is, is found through a process of serving and having good people around you pointing those things out, and I was had people that were willing to say this isn't your thing or this, this is something I think you would excel in. So as we walked along, I took that advice in kind of pursued the areas that I think I was best in and it led to church planting, and we've done that three times now. And so, I think it. Forty two. Now, I think I'm finally kind of hit my stride to where I feel like I'm at least firing on all cylinders things. I did my twenties that were stupid, you grow out of those things as you mature and grow up. I think you don't reach a level of leadership where you stop growing. It should be this process of learning what God has called you to do. And then getting good at it. And then teaching others to do the same thing. So, yeah, it's been kind of an evolution if I can use that word a Christian evolution of finding out, what God has for us. So it's been fun and humbling. Because I think if you go that process kind of takes the pride out of it, I'm not here to say, look because of my gifting, ings. I have this magic power to to serve Jesus better than anyone else. Now it's through a lot of humbling experiences through the process of learning. What not to do that you find what you should do. So it's been fun. And we're really stoked to be doing what we're doing now. Now, we're we're all of you planted churches. So obviously here in the valley, and then we're else we did. We started in Salem Oregon. In west Salem. And that was in two thousand four five somewhere in there. And then in two thousand nine we moved back to California to job at our kind of our mother church down in reading for a little while just to figure out what God had next through a series of events led us to Hawaii. I used to live there in the ninety s when I was single. So I had some connections, there was called to interview for a church out there in two thousand ten we flew out to speak there, and we re realize really quickly that that wasn't the church that we were called to go to, but God gave us a burden for that area immediately. And I know people at oh, it's why, of course, you had a burden I would even challenge to. Yeah. Wasn't that I'd already lived there? I what it was like. I didn't have that stereotype. This is perfect place to be. I saw the real culture. They're the real life there. So we, we just strategically said, now we're supposed to plant here. And we did. We went there with no organization just got job. Tent maker sell implanted there. And then we moved back here, I turn that one over in two thousand. Something, and we've been here for a few years, three years now, I think, and through series of immense now working with the CF again, or contrition evangelistic fellowship to, to plant here in Medford. And so, yeah, it's been a great transition. Great for our kids here to be here. It's a good place. When you have younger kids to raise your kids, we bounced around before when, when our kids were too young to have friends, but now it's kind of that season of life where we don't wanna put down the roots. I don't see us just okay? We're going to plant again immediately. We really feel like this is where we're going to stay at least for the time being. So we'll we'll kind of take a little bit of a turn here for a second. So I to grew up in the church and sounds like you kind of did as well. So I mean by all definitions church kids. Right. So I've heard through the years, you know, being a member of a church were, were, there comes a point in time, where someone leaves right? And so I you know, I'm I read through this book thoroughly this. You lost me. Book is a book put up by the Barna group. And so in that kind of got my mind, kind of swirling in a way like why do people really leave church? Why would someone ever wanna leave this comfort this caring people? But, but people do leave. And so maybe you could speak about that, too in your experience. How does someone generally leave or how are you notified of someone leaving a church if that does take place? I think just like anything else, there's good reasons in bad reasons to do anything and I don't think leaving a church or making a decision on churches any different. I don't want to just say that if you leave that's wrong. Sometimes there's actually good reasons to not be at a church, number one. If the leadership is bad, if they're sin you shouldn't be there or you should deal with it, if it won't be dealt with then you should move on. I think that can be a cancer, number two if their theology is bad, if they're if they're not preaching the gospel, if they're not making Jesus the center. These are good. Reasons to say, I might not need to be here, and again, you should you should try and work through those be a catalyst, if you get to the point where you say these things are not happening here. I need to move on. And then the most practical one that I think people minimize is just if you're just not connecting like it could be a great church. It might be gospel driven church leadership might not be in sin. It might be a good church. But if they're you know, full of fifty five to eight year olds that are good people in your heavy young family, and you just don't connect that just might not be where God has you. So I don't think those are bad reasons. You wanna connect to your community. You should spend the time getting to the people to see if you can connect. And, and I think those are valid reasons if someone is prayerfully, considered that and said, yeah, I just don't feel like I belong here because of this, I think those are godly reasons to leave. So what do you think are ungodly reasons? Well reasons that is a big, can you want to open their? I think that majority again, what I just explained. I think are few and far between right? Fortunately, most people don't leave churches for good reasons, they don't care about theology. Most of them aren't are looking for those things are digging deep enough to see if the leadership is, is usually the leadership is just assume that they're godly because they're leaders. They're not digging. They're leaving for reasons that are much more superficial than that. And the best way to summarize that or put that under an umbrella of batteries to leave is just our world view of the church. I think that people come into church with a world view of what the church should be to them. And because the church in and of itself, doesn't meet that expectation. They're down the road. So in the American culture, the view is really salvation and Sunday morning. That's what it's about. I mean if you'd ask your average person they would say, get got saved now go to church. It really doesn't get a whole lot deeper than that, there might be some indirect relationships that come from that. But really, that's basically where it lies. It really should be salvation leads to a long term commitment, that looks like fulfilling the great commission, which is making disciples. That make disciples. That's what the church should be looking at salvation, obviously part of it. But then that's just the starting point for most they're coming in saying in the American culture, what can the church do for me? I've gotten saved. I've got that nice free gift now I wanna come in and I want to be comfortable. I want you to meet my needs to make me happy so that I can feel good about myself and be inspired every week to encourage to go on. And there should be that component in there. But that's just the start the reality is most people in our society. Don't understand the role of the church. So their expectation when they leave our well that, that I didn't want to hear that. How dare they asked me that or how dare they get into my life, or that church is getting a little too close to me? I'm going to move on. I have a problem with this. I'm gonna move on instead of seeing it, as you know, this is a process where we are. We're called to fulfill the great commission and we need the church to do that. God gave us the church. Jesus loved the church. It's there for us. So when you have that perspective, you see it, as a family as kind of a marriage where you're married to the church. It's, it's Jesus's vehicle to fulfill the great commission when you know that you deal with things just like you, we get in a fight with your wife. You don't just we're done. I'm walking out the door. Now you work through it. And when you work through those things, that's when you grow deeper and most people just don't have that same view of the church, they don't want people telling them what they should do based on truth. They don't really want accountability in their life. They don't want them telling them about finances, or how they should spend their time when the. Is that's a part of discipleship. Somebody's got to say the hard things to you. We just don't want the church to do that. And so when people when we as the church, when we say things people don't wanna hear oftentimes, their expectation of what my job is was just broken, and then they're going to leave, so there's a lot of it. That's just scratching the surface, but I think that has a lot to do with it. So I think it's kinda funny too is our culture. Right. We're so inundated with social media through Facebook through Instagram or Twitter through all this stuff Snapchat, now making its rounds. So my thing is, is that when they wanna put their whole life out online, but then when they're called out on that. Do you think that also causes people really to kind of push back and go, wait a second? Your to close like you're again just building on what you're saying. Yeah it's a two edged sword. There's a glass house that social media creates even in the work world. You can't, you know, bosses now we'll check people's Facebook pages to see what kind of person. Is this really that just came for an interview and people, I think are, are well aware of that now in churches the same way people don't really trust the church. And there's a lot of good reasons to not trust certain people. But again, the route the route issue is do do you know that Jesus loved the church and he gave us the church? And if that's the truth, we should be willing to fight for it and, and help be a part of the solution, not just a part of the problem, and that was why we got new church planning is we said, yeah, there are issues within that church. But instead of just being the one that leaves or the one that, you know, criticizes, I'm gonna try and be a part of the solution. I'm gonna try and help again if there, rescind issues that's a Trump card. The first things we said, I would walk for, for those issues if gospels not being preached if their sin not being dealt with I would walk. But if it's smaller issues like worship style different things arguments disagreements, that person looked at me funny. They didn't say hi to me like if you're not willing to work through. Those things you should be you should be because Jesus gave us the church. And when you work through them, just like any good family. You're you have to work hard to have a family that loves you and support you that is healthy, you, it takes work doesn't happen. And I don't think that picture of family is, is really what our culture portrays as the church, and when those two things come together it changes everything it really does. So leading into another point. How does disappointments disagreements in? Discouragement play into a role of someone leaving in your mind disappointments, discouragements, they all have to do with expectations are is the church meeting their expectation people's feelings. Get hurt all the time leaders get feelings, get hurt you have to have healthy expectations. And again, I think it's good to just I, I like to go back to God's word, but I know most people's reference that are coming to church and fortunately, it's not God's word it's our culture. It's I wanna I wanna have this standard of life. I wanna live this way, I want people to see me this way and disappointment usually comes in the fact that if I if you speak truth, sometimes that shatters that ego, or shatters that expectation when you see the real not the Facebook family, but the real family when you really see that, you're, you have to learn to deal with the disappointment that may be the mess. You've made of. Your life. Are you willing to deal with that disappointment and say, I'm going to our gods? God, that restores and these people love me and they wanna help restore me. But if, if it's just about pointing fingers, it's pretty tough to deal with disappointment or discouragment. If you think that their motives are bad. I think that, you know, that's kind of a root issue there. So it's tough. It's hard to see people walk away because of I, I'd call them petty issues. I know they're not petty to the people that are feeling them. They feel like they're big deal. But in the big picture, there resolvable and, and people should be willing to work through that kind of stuff. So Cording to Fox News. So we'll just take that as a as a viable source, perhaps, maybe others would disagree with that. But according to Fox News, there are five reasons why people leave church. Do you agree or disagree with these in why? Here's here's number one. We tell people that the bible is basic for Christianity. Rephrase that one more time. Okay. We tell people that the bible is the basic for Christianity. And this is a reason as to why people leave. Yeah. You have to have lists with within your church. You have to have non-negotiables and negotiate deals. And I always say you have to have hills, you're willing to die on heels, you're not willing to die on and to me, the of scripture is a hill. I'm willing to die on. So if the thing is people need to know that right up front. I think part of the reason that people leave churches as they don't do their homework. They don't even know what their negotiators are non-negotiables really are other than the fact that they want to be inspired every week or entertained, or, you know challenge. You know challenge typically not we don't really want to be challenged. You wanna be inspired wanna leave happy and stoked and excited for our week and the line, kind of gets blurred there. So I think that that's a common one. That is not not addressed enough. Do you dig do you find out what said church really teaches? Do they value God's word in that way? They also believe that suffering disproves the existence of God. Again. I'm I'm really struggling with this list. It's not my list for the record. Well, if suffering disproves the existence of God, then you need to throw the whole bible out because that's pretty much from from beginning chances to revelation very. There's a lot of stuff and God allows is important distinction. God doesn't cause a lot of things to happen. But he allows a lot of things to happen. He allows a lot of things to happen in our lives because he's more concerned with our growth than he is our comfort again. That's not a popular concept to preach on Sunday morning. He's does not care if you're comfortable, it's not health, wealth and prosperity, its growth and discipleship. And sometimes he allows us to go through hard things. So, yeah. Again, if that's an expectation, it's just not a biblical one. So building on that they had a bad experience, which for whatever reason maybe there is an abuse situation, which there has been, you know, through the years in different churches and, and maybe leader disappointed or whatever so, yeah, you've got a everyone has bad experiences in their family in their friendships in their workplace churches. No different. You're gonna people there. You're gonna have bad experiences. Again, you have to be able to gauge whether or not these are hills, you're gonna die on or not. Or you gonna walk over these issues. Is this bad experience based on unresolved sin that won't be dealt with is as bad experience based on the fact that the churches in preaching gospel, then that bad experience should be one, you walk away from, but outside of that, that leaves a myriad of things that you could be dealing with that you should you should work through if you care enough about Jesus church? You should be willing to walk through those things. But I get it. I understand it. Bad experiences are all usually lumped into one basket, which means I'm out if I'm not happy, right. I mean, we can take that to extreme, you know, when you go to a restaurant, yet, bad service, you're never going to go back there again. You know, because they didn't make your hamburger the right way or whatever, whatever. I mean you just we can do that with preaching. I'm not preaching. Yeah. Like if we have someone speak for me. I've heard that in the past radio. I'm gone. I have someone else speak. There was a new couple that week and they they'll never come back because they didn't get to hear me. It's not about me, if that one experience on Sunday morning, made their decision as to whether or not they were going to attend. It's understandable. It's just not biblical. It's nothing. I don't sympathize or even empathize. I'm just it's not my job. My job is to tell you, what God's word says, I kind of have to leave feelings out of it. So, you know, I definitely understand it. I just I just have to say that it's just not biblical. Sure. We're bad at making people feel welcome. That's true. I think for most, I think people in this is the I think, Pete, some churches, get a bad rap of being colder or impersonal, and there are those out there. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. But there are some churches who were just so busy with their Sunday morning ministry that they forget to care for people they forget to stop. And you know, this is trying to give people the benefit of the doubt, which is not typically my ammo. So I'm really trying to extend this to give some grace here to say, I have to remind our people in our church is known, and I very proud of this known to be very loving and welcoming when people come in, but we work hard for that. We're always making sure we're communicating. Hey, don't get. So caught up in what you're doing that. You forget doing a good job is a good. Good thing. But if it means you sacrificed talking with people or making them feel, welcome, then it's offer, not it really is. So, yeah, I get that. So we made it a Greek word for the word church building, and the Greek word. I'm going to spell it because I'm my Greek isn't as good as it used to be E. K K. L E, S A, if you want to try to talk echinacea. There you go. Now that I hear it I can say it echinacea. We made up a word for church building. That's the that's the reason. Yeah. Apparently we just make up random words in Greek. Yeah. Again, just it's just not biblical, right? It's it sounds nice. It's not biblical when living on Maui. We had people that the idea, we don't really need to be in a building. I was at the beach a lot into kite, surfing, and different things. So I was down there a lot talking to the guys on the beach when we were starting to church there. And, and that was one of the things they said, oh, my church is it's in the out there, too, in the ocean like, yeah, that's nice. It's not biblical. It's nice. Sounds great. But it's just not biblical. Jesus gave us. The church gather at church leaders, a gathering of people. He gave us that because it is hard to do this on our own. You can't do it on our own. We have to have that, and I think there was a popular movement within the church in the last fifteen years or so this home church model, or, or just the idea that we don't need the established church at all that we're just love Jesus. And we're just out there doing our thing that sounds nice in. It's romantic kind of idea to, to be out there and be kind of a renegade for the. Lord. It's just not biblical again. It always comes back to. Okay, that's nice. But what is God's word say about that? There's a reason why he gave us a church because we can't do it on our own. We have people that balance out our personalities. We have to learn to work with people. We clash with in the church, just like you do at work. You don't come to church and it's not this utopia community where everyone gets along. Underneath the main reasons to leave. There are a lot of reasons to work through in stay. So, you know, I think that you have to always have a foundation. The problem is, as most believers, most Christians in church when really pinned down to why they leave are not basing it based on scripture, they're basing it on feeling emotion, and what they want, and that's human nature. But that's why God gave us his word so we didn't have to guess so that we didn't have to go off of how we feel so speaking feelings. I mean, you've got it up a few times, our feelings facts in your mind. No should should someone be governed by their feelings. Absolutely not. You have to take your feelings, and then check them, you know, everything should be checked against God's word. How am I feeling? And the better question to ask, is not, how am I feeling? But why am I feeling this way? And then say, oh, it's because of this, and what is God's word say about that. This is why we preach so often about knowing his word. It's not about checking boxes because God likes it when we read his word it's about being equipped to handle life, if we don't know God's word, we're not going to be able to navigate through all of the feelings that life does throw at us. So, yeah. I think it's very important that, that we check our feelings to God's word. So how does it feel for you as a pastor? I know we just talked about feelings. But but what does that have on you as a pastor? When you find out, somebody is leaving, could you maybe speak about that? Do you have any personal maybe not personal names or anything like that? But, but do you have any personal experience with? I think we're we're human in. I think we experience all the feelings that come with that. I'd like to say that over the years. My feelings have been narrowed down more to disappointment rather than anger when you're young you mad that they're leaving. Oh, how could they do that? Don't they care? They don't get it. So anger really immaturity leads to I think a better emotion, which is just disappointment and, and being a little bit sad. I think that's okay. Anytime someone misses the Mark we're going to be disappointed and gonna be sad. When people make poor choices and, and the view of a pastor really needs to be like a shepherd or a coach in. And when I see those that were wanting to follow like those are our children. When I see them making poor choices I'm gonna I'm gonna feel bad feel bad about it. We've had people in the last year leave that shouldn't have left, they should have stayed in work through it. And we've had other people eat one moved. They moved out of state, and they're doing different things or call two different things. We have a couple that might go. He called into a different ministry right now, that will take them to a different part of town like great. That's awesome. We'll pray for you. You know, that kind of thing, but we've had the people leave over to me issues that they should have stayed to work through because it's not because we need them to be there. It's because I know that when you do stick it out, and you work through it, you're always stronger for it and real growth happens. When you face your first time in a church where you have to decide am I going to work through this or not. That's where God often really does some awesome things. We have to be willing to do that. So, yeah, when I see payment people making bad choices. Yeah. It's disappointing. You pray firm and you hope that you leave it the door open enough that they know that they can come back. There's been people where I've been like. And I'll be the first one to tell them because we always communicate when people go if we can if we can communicate with them. We will we want them to know that. Hey, you're always welcome to come back. You know, you're always walking even if we don't agree with the decision you're making. We think you should wear through it. We. Understand. That's where you're at right now, we wanna leave the door open, so they can come back. So do you think do you think divorce has a has a part to play in why people leave churches so much? Because as a society, we're so quick to divorce. We're so quick to leave a relationship or so quick to break up with somebody. I mean, how often do we have to change our status? I mean, the younger probably do this more so than you, and I, but, you know, we changed our status from you in a relationship too complicated to single again. You know, whatever do you think that has a part to play in it at all? I think it plays a role for sure. I mean, we just don't we don't even know what the word commitment means anymore, and their biblical commitments that we are that, that did God wants us to make in order to grow, and be Elvy. And we're pretty loose with that. We're willing to say up, you can really see, when, when people lip service is one thing real commitment is, is seeing when things get difficult, and are they is it really your family. And I've had other leaders come to me, and this is one of the things that it's hard for new leaders understand that someone will leave, and they will they will communicate how could they leave? We like family that I loved I spent time with them then. I don't talk to me now it's like and how he's have to communicate. They didn't see it the way you see it. They didn't see you is family. They just saw it as a place. They went to church, you because you see it in the godly way you saw them as a part of your family. And now they left you. But you can't get mad if you if you understand that they didn't have that same perspective. They didn't see it as family. They just saw it as a place. They went for an hour on Sunday. And, and that makes it easy for people to leave when there isn't commitment there. So I definitely think it plays a role for sure. Okay, last question, Kirk. So we're going to pretend for moment, you're at QWest field. I know that's a wonderful place for you to go so Mariners. I mean you wanna go Safeco. We can go save. Go centurylink. Oh, sorry. Centurylink. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. All right. Like I said, Westfield. Why did I say quest feel as it used to be called back in the day, I think it was quest kingdom back in the back and then to? Okay. All right. We're gonna get down a road that I probably don't want to go down, but, but CenturyLink field. Okay. Okay. But I'm you could fact check me. I'm sure when it was first named it was field. I don't think you're right. But okay factor me, I'm just saying. All right. We're gonna argue about that one, we're gonna get along year just getting. We love each other. We really do. So pretend for a second that you're at the fifty yard line of CenturyLink field. It is packed like it would be for a Seahawks game. Right. And you're at the center of that field. What would you say to this statement? When I asked you, what would you say to everyone in their presuming -ly? We're going to -ssume that they're, they're all these people are there, because for whatever reason they've left church in some way. Maybe they've been disappointed. They've been hurt. They've been whatever but you have this great opportunity. But what is it? Eighty thousand plus at CenturyLink field. I think I mean I could be wrong on that, too. I don't know capacity, but, but we'll say like ninety plus all right. So you got ninety plus people there that are, that are struggling with this idea of. I'm gonna leave. I've laughed. I've been hurt. I've been whatever what would you say to them in that moment? Go hawks after that, after that, if okay. Boy, it sounds. Kinda contrite in. Stupid to say, but I honestly the root of it, I would really say he's a God knows best. God knows best and people need to trust that God knows best. He established the church for reason, and because of that it's worth fighting for it's worth working through it's worth fighting for that doesn't mean every specific church. You have to stay at I mean, the church in general, if you do move on its work, make sure you find a place you can plug in. It's worth fighting for Jesus gave us his church. He loves his church, and he knows best even if you've been hurt, and I've been hurting leadership many times doesn't mean I walk away from the church beans, people or hurtful, God's intention for the church is good. And I think that we need to trust that he established the church, and he knows what's best for us. Even if people along the way hurt us, he knows what's best. Don't give up on the church. And I think that's the most important thing. You can nickel and dime and talk about specifics different areas of church all day long. But in generally speaking, I think that's what we need to understand all of us have hurts in there. Some are in different areas summer. You know. You know. Some are leadership level hurts. Some are just I didn't feel welcome. They're kinda hurts. So whatever level, it's at the answer is still the same God wants you in the church in h and he wants you to fight for it and commit to it, and he wants you to do, so because he knows what's best for you. He knows that. That's what you need to thrive. You need the church. This idea that we can make it on our own just is not accurate. We can't make it on her own. That's why he gave us the church. So I'm gonna give you a closing and then we're going to play the game because games are fun. Right. That sounds awesome. So you're closing thought, what what is upward doing that? Maybe separates you guys from say, other ministries, do you want to speak to that at all? Well, I mean, I think discipleship is keys number one. We're, we're a community that has it. We like to say we don't just have discipleship or the, the phrase discipleship on the front of our bulletin. We have a plan for it a strategic plan for discipleship. So if you sit down with us and say, what does that look like we can actually tell you what that looks like in back with scripture, and we have leaders that are trained in disciple in you from an infant or a baby to mature adult that makes disciples? There's a process for that. So that's, that's definitely one that's key. But the other side, and I think it's vitally important too, is we think we get it socially. We love to have fun together. We love to eat together. That's something that's lost in the church. The word potluck has really been killed. I love a good potluck. I love ring. Fatima good potline. You don't know what he's talking about. You got to check that out. Google does not do a potluck Justice, by the way. So if you Google that right now, you're you're missing it. You really. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hospitalized is a spiritual gift for reason. Yeah. And I think we've kinda minimize that, and I it's, it's one thing to be intellectual and, and be smart and care for people and disciple people. It's another to do life with them. And I think we're trying to marry those two together where we say, hey, we're a church that eats. We love anything. We do have an excuse to, to throw a party in eat together, we go for it, and I think it's it sounds to some people, it sounds like it's not an important thing. It absolutely is important. It's important that people understand community in foods, a big part of that, you, it's represented in scripture that there would be a wedding feast, and the illustrations used oftentimes that people would gather together, and eat together. So we're trying to be a little old school with that, and culturally. It's, it's kind of been done away with we, we cater a lot of things. I just think yeah. Once in a while it's good to cater. But man throw a potluck. Get people to, to bring food and eat double, dander and. We do that a lot. Our entire summer is actually barbecue. So we'll do most of June outside the outdoor amphitheater behind there and we and we barbecue every week and we have a special drink every week that we do it's just ways to celebrate Jesus in a different way. It's to show you know, you're important in whenever something important going on, there's usually food represented, and we think the church should bring that back. So it's a marrying of real social components with, with the strategic godly plans for discipleship. We're trying to do both and I think so far, so good. I know it's not the popular way. It's not like we're going to bring in fifty new people every week, it's one family at a time kind of mindset because you have to get people that are willing to, to submit to that kind of church. So we're not a Sunday church if you come we're going to get to know you, but it's working, we're growing we're stable, we're healthy. And DNA set now we're really just putting walls up on that. What does that look like? Now. We build and grow. You know, beyond one hundred people. What, what does that look like? So that's kind of where we're at its church. It's exciting fun place to be if somebody was seeking like man, what you're describing. I've never encountered before anything like that. What would be your best advice to them on that? Well, do your homework. Number one, don't just like don't take my word for it. I really, really recommend that if it sounds appealing to be a part of people that eat together colts together to that's shouldn't be the only reason, you know, the Mormons are really good at throwing a party. That should not be why you go. So before you look at anything that looks attractive to you do your homework. Find out what they believe what the teach ask hard questions. Make sure your non-negotiables are set then once they're set and, you know, you're in a healthy environment, then, then enjoy the process of growing together, and working through things together and in calling it your family. So, yeah, I think do you. Your homeworks number one. Don't be lured in by a gimmick. We always say, we're not trying to gimmick people in when we offer food, or do different things that are fun. We just want people show that it is a part of a part of family that we want them want to be there. But we're also very clear that we want to back everything with scripture, I don't if it's if it's an opinion I will tell you, it's my opinion. But if it's not, I'll, you know, don't shoot the messenger. It's in God's word, we're going to communicate it and do so boldly. So, yeah, people I think should do a better job of, of understanding what their church believes and getting to know their leadership. Are they trustworthy is there things that you see there that don't look right? You've got to trust that when something doesn't look. Right. It's probably because something's not, right? You know. So valid point component vowed point. Okay. So here's our game. There is a diet in here today. Awesome. Sorry no Seahawks Cup buddy. Sorry. Got a hold that. This North Carolina. Didn't they lose you were going to bring that up? I blocked that out block that out everybody likes to be beaten on my heels. So we're gonna have you roll the die. And then from there. We have a fun question to ask you just to kind of close the show at one voice. So here we go. Hear it not necessarily. But very he rolled a one. This is fun. I like one. Here's question, number one, as we play a game called senseless because it's really just nonsense, but it's involving your sentence. So here we go. How do others see you? That's a terrible question. That's an amazing question. I love it. How do other see you? How does other c Kirk? The twenty year old Kirk or the forty year old Kirk both. I mean I don't know. You. There in your shoes. So you, you tell me how you see the twenty year old Kirk, I would say, how people saw me was a, a really driven leader put his he's put his foot in his mouth, because I knew truth. But I didn't know what a handle it very correctly. I think the forty year old Kirk. I've learned some some temperance and I still speak, boldly, but I do so. While valuing community in relationship and friendship. I would like to see that say that people would say that. I'm a bold leader, but I care and I am a real person, and I love a genuinely love hanging out with people. I love having people over community fills me up. It doesn't empty me. I don't need to get away to the mountains because I've been so sucked out by the church. The church actually fills me up. So I would hope that there'd be a balance there, that people would see a bold leader that loves people, and I think that early Kirk was kind of a bold leader. I didn't really understand people. You can speak truth and have it be very hurtful. If you don't care for people, so, yeah, that, that would be my desire. That would be my hope and so far. So good. I haven't driven away mass amounts of people. So must be doing something right? Yeah, absolutely. Kirk. I was like to remind people when, when we walk in other people's shoes, we really do. Get a different perspective on life. It's kind of how we like to in the show and so- Kirk. I just want to say thank you for giving me a few moments today to kind of dig into kind of how you view people leaving the churches. Specially from a pastoral perspective and last chance Sunday mornings. You're meeting, where again, eat lone pine, cool elementary school. We, it does not look like a school. When you come in there, and we've got pretty dialed in. It's really fun. It's cool. It's a great facility. It's an updated. And, and it's just honestly, we never had anyone say I wish we had a building and we want to have a building. But man, we're really enjoying our time there. It's a fun place. And if someone wanted to reach out to the church or know, more about the church, or maybe how to get in touch with you, do you want to provide any of that. Sure. Yeah. Face upward dot org. Okay. And if you go to face upward dot org, you can hear online, all our servants or online or series. We're doing two years in Luke walking through that and ways to get involved. Home groups all that stuff is on our website, what we believe, is, which is important is on there. So, yeah. And we have a Facebook page to, and yeah, if you look up upward Churchill Medford, you'll find it saw some great Malinche does in the show as well. So again, thank you so much, Kirk, we appreciate it. And this, of course, has been other people's shoes, and we look forward to future episodes. Thank you again.

Kirk Kirk Jesus Facebook CenturyLink field Medford Seahawks Neal Fox News Salem Oregon pine elementary school KMart STAN Oregon Barna group centurylink Google scientist California North Carolina
Ep 6 | Rooster

Murder in Oregon

39:17 min | 1 year ago

Ep 6 | Rooster

"Hey minion and we are excited to announce that we are releasing our own podcast series one fan interview the band in partnership with iheartradio. ARGH lady make sure to follow along each week as we choose one fan to come hang backstage and asks questions. Check out one fan to interview the band on the iheartradio APP Napa podcasts. Or wherever you get your chest. Murder in Oregon is a production of iheartradio Tim at video arcade and I thought he was the cutest most charming guy that hung out there and so pretty much right away he asked me out. Liz God love was tentative. ADDS girlfriend and mother of their son. They they met while they were both in high school and quickly spiraled into an intensely passionate dysfunctional and dangerous relationship. One that would end in a violent silence. Death I'm Lauren Pacheco and this is as murder in Oregon in our last episode. We learned that Tim Natividad also known as rooster was thought by many to be a likely suspect in the murder of Michael Frankie. We also learned earned his drug addiction propensity for violence and the twisted relationship. He had with Carrie Rothschild one in which he acted as a kind of broken guardian rescuing her from the drug fueled nightmare that was her mother's house and introducing her to a whole new nightmare of drug dealing dependence. It's and murder during that entire time. Natividad was also in a relationship with Liz. God love who started to see the evil behind is good looks almost immediately while like I said I thought he was handsome and pretty much our first date though. Oh He's showed a lot of jealousy we've doubled dated that night and he was super jealous of his own brother. His own brother was talking to me a little bit too. You much pissed him off. Started driving crazy in the car and yellow lettuce brother. Yeah this is my date. You have years back there. It really scared me but not enough to deny his attraction photos of Natividad show is strikingly handsome. Young man with dark hair and dark eyes didn't scare me away because Tim he always came over and called and he was just like over me and he was so nice in the the beginning you know he had the excuses. That is stupid. Brother China. Pick up on US data all the time and you know so. Put that to bed just sixteen and caught up in a crush lizzy Nord Red flags and refused to see the patterns. Natividad demonstrated from the beginning has abusive something that became much. More evident during the course of their relationship was young. Honestly the jealousy tend to display it on their first date continued and he quickly became possessive too young and inexperienced. Liz Mistook that intensity for I love. And when I would try to break up with him he wouldn't have it. No he would not have the no. I tried a few times and he would stab himself cut. His wrists was razors. Who Do all that in front of me? And then of course he tells me not to tell anyone but a lot of times my sister was there. Keep going to the bathroom and start cutting his wrists or I was at his mom and dad's house. He was in his bedroom cutting his wrists. He came to my work one evening and I noticed him in the lunchroom in the middle of the night it was really crowded and I noticed him watching me. Only God needs you get over here. You get downstairs now so I can fly downstairs after we get in his car he pulls out a big knife to start hacking himself in one squirting escorting everywhere saying he's going to kill me just stabbing himself so I get out of the car running and get hell place. com took him to the State Hospital for the night and he got up the next day. So that's how I lived with him. That's how it was. It was very scary aggressive but Natividad behavior wasn't just triggered by their relationship. This brother said that when they grew up in California early on he he was diagnosed schizophrenic. I don't know if that's true. I have no clue so the drugs could have been on drugs did it. And this was a similar pattern to it. Carry Rothschild experienced with Tim. His drug use led to Liz's drug use at Ed very young age. and Liz says it was spurred on by Thames own mother. His mom had turned US onto Chris. Tops speed early on like I think Seventeen than their little tiny pill that was like meth. It kept you up for hours and hours ours. Everybody was using them back then. I asked Liz about Tim's upbringing to gleam insight into his life and how he wound up in Oregon aside from drug use. Violent crimes seem to be part of this family. Like I say he did have his mom and Dad Six brothers and sisters. His Dad worked two jobs to support the family. The mother had a boyfriend my friend all the time on the side which disgusted and angered Tim. He didn't like of course his mom got into some serious trouble on California cornea and Tim like that. They had to move to Salem Oregon for her protection. She was in the witness protection program. Evidently she had delivered the money for the hit so she did some prison time for that. That's why they came to Oregon a few years into their violent and dysfunctional relationship. Liz found herself pregnant. And how did he react to that. He was happy he was fine with that. I was in shock. My God. Yeah he wanted onto eventually have another child with me. Her shock stemmed from the fact. She didn't think it was possible. In the first place he said there is no way shape or reform could ever have children. Never Tim said he was sterile. He was born with his intestines outside of stomach and he said that it had messed up his system for life that he was tested. And there's no way he could have children so he was happy when when I got pregnant signature and clearly anthony has his because I don't cheat on people and Anthony Looks a lot like his dad was Natividad. Faithful will no way no heck no. I learned later that he had a lot of girlfriends. I didn't know that see. I was at home taking care. The baby being a good girl while he was out selling drugs or whatever is doing I had no idea. He had other girlfriends mm-hmm after their son was born. Thames behavior continued downward spiral. Liz's sister. Becky was married to Vince. Taylor one of Tim's childhood friends who we spoke to in a previous episode. He was also a fellow member of the Kaiser Mafia the drug dealing in gang based in a nearby suburb of Salem. We lived right next door to each other. I lived above and they live below. It wasn't a quiet person. Everything was just going to hell after a while. You know and then you would start seeing Liz. Maybe had a bruise on her face or something like that you know at the time fence was living with his sister becky. Tim wouldn't allow Becky to come to my house. We lived in the same complex and he wouldn't allow me up there to visit a her. He just kept my family week for me. It was just odd if he leave and I needed food in the house I would sneak to store as fast as I could got. Caught wants pulling he. He pulled him at the same time. He was screaming at me. And it scared me. Sorry grabbed Anthony Aeneas star running toward my sister's house took a big set of keys through Sohar nailed me hard with the keys. My son in my arms sobbed and I think we call the police that night. I believe we always called the police because we went upstairs and lock the door and put furniture under the DOORKNOB. Kevin wouldn't come out eventually. Things got so bad that Liz her sister events made the decision to flee the state with her small son on. Here's fans I guarantee you know he's a lesson round. He was that far gone in his mind. You know he thought everybody everybody was a cop or trying to get him or trend. Woods questioning me I go what the hell are you doing. You know I mean things are weird. Wants to patch down to Mike Mike on your or anything like that. He was just he was gone. Tim Got extremely dangerous. We really dangerous holding knives to my throat. Certain Shokhin meow like the police were really. There's nothing they could do. I filed restraining orders. Tim would get locked up for the day and and get out. It'd be worse so they couldn't trust the restraining orders anymore. I called Tim's probation officer. I called the women's Crisis Center. They all said if you can and leave the state. So Vince in Becky said let's go. Let's get the heck out of there. We went to Colorado where we were or scared to death to be. They're looking for work. They're still afraid of Tim. Everyone was supposed to be quiet. Not till tomorrow as uh well one of my friends said. Tim went to my last place of employment and threatened her with the gun out on the front porch and said tell me where she's and she did so then my phone call was Tim's coming. He's coming to get you so forget scared. I may giggled today and it's just nerves some frustration it it just nothing was working. I didn't know what to do and less wasn't tape. It adds only target was threatening to kill me my family visits. I mean it was getting really really scary. Really bad. And he said he had killed the man who died just drugs and guns in his behavior. It was time for us to go. We had to go. We were scared for our lives. Married ears scared for her life and trapped by her fear. He'd harm her family. Liz returned to Thame Natividad behavior remained erratic back but it was after the time period of the Frankie murder. That things really hit a breaking point it was really super paranoid. Angry agree sad mad Alana crying and shaking and not letting me out of sight out letting me have have family over keeping the blinds shut and saying. Don't let anybody and do not answer the door if I'm here I'm not here. And he wanted to move to bend my house in those two weeks. He's telling me all this. He wanted to go to Hawaii so all these plans right away. Oh my God who was packing in the guns who's bringing guns in the house. A lot of machine guns pistols Hey everybody Noah Brown here executive producer of murdering Oregon and true crime is absolutely a passion of mine but occasionally you can get a little dark ark exploring all of these cases so an I need a break. Something of a mental pallet cleanser. I like to play a game. Called best means it is a challenging challenging puzzle problem solving game that also has a story. It engages your brain in a fun approachable way. It's fantastic for casual players of all ages. You can spend as much or as little time on the game as you'd like lately. I've been finding myself with a tiny bit of downtime needing to unwind and I'll play it maybe a couple of times a day I'm I think I'm at level twenty three but that's the thing it keeps updating adding new levels every single month so there's always new world to explore engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters. Download this five star rated mobile puzzle game on the apple APP store and Google play for free. That's friends without Out The our best fiends Jay bell a former detective for the Marion County Sheriff's department we members responding to a call during that time I was on the road and the NRA your car and I was assigned to make contact Economic Beers apartment house lancaster. It was ended up being the girlfriend of Natividad also known as Rooster Street. Name came downstairs and she told me that all four retires lash. And I'm looking at this and I'm thinking man lie you know that's pretty good knife to cut through sidewalls of four tires and there's no blood heating cut himself that concept. No evidence around the ground is just like they walk up and stuff down. So that's like one pope job and then she tells me the thing that threw me. She says I think Natividad did slash retire as we told me. She said I think he did that. She says we've been fighting a lot. And then she goes on a little further. Tell me he's got stolen forty. I five automatic in apartments right now and so I said well is there way I can get it. She says no because it would burn me and it would. He didn't probably the killer so backed off on nope. No maybe I could find something off the street to maybe do a warrant to get undertake and as before we we know about the two that out anything to do with any any suspicion of Frankie in fact I think it was. It was just a few days after Franken was murdered. If I'm crack her by this point timms abuse physical verbal and extremely effective. I felt worthless. Tim would tell Anthony Year. Mother's bitch ear. Mother is no good. Your mother's going to heaven. Sue the types of things he would say to my son his son. And when you have a violent drug addict in front of you telling you in showing you believe do you believe it. With every ounce of anything you haven't things deteriorated Syria rated to the point where listener came to check on her waiting until Tim wasn't at home and decided to take anthony fearing for his safety and and I opened the door I saw was her lateran and she saw the drugs in the guns and the knives in danger and took me and she said you're not getting back. No Way I understood. I understood it but tim did not and responded about as well as you might expect so so she had for two weeks and I was getting a lot of pressure from tim to he need a tattoo. Set is going to kill me and take you out to California and hide them underground no body Freddie whatever find him again and he said if he had to he would kill my sister Karen and her husband to go get anthony. I did give him. I could tell that my soul was dislike. I wanted to be done forever anymore but I got a burst of energy and wanted to protect my family so I ran grabbed the gun off the bed and was headed out. The door headed out my door which had a bunch of locks on it and I couldn't get it unlocked. I was terrified. Knew it was gonNA kill me. Grab that Diem done. The incessant violence the abuse and threats against her family and her son finally pushed Liz over the edge and when I heard him come up behind me a turned. We said Liz. But I'll tell you I snapped so weird because I didn't care anymore. I was ready. I told God you know I'm ready is going to kill me I worry just just please please please let my sister. Karen be the best mom to Anthony. You know saying my prayers. I felt dead and just felt felt like so hollow worthless. It's over over over and I couldn't tell you what snapped how I snapped can tell you I remember picturing how he was gonNA shoot everybody at sisters and then take my little guy was going to be scared to death on a shootout. He said he'd kill her in. The cop the follows him them to California. It was Oh hell no so I turned into Sean and a bunch and I can't believe it to be honest with. I can't believe it happened. I can't believe I didn't die. I actually shot him and two weeks after Michael Frankie's murder Tim Natividad. Ed was dead at Liz's trial. Her attorneys admitted multiple records of domestic abuse into evidence and several love. The cops who arrested Tim during those disturbances showed up to testify. Also on the stand was Liz's neighbor. who heard the sounds of Tim's violent went and abusive behavior firsthand? Oh my neighbor next door to us. I never met her in my life. Listen to it all night and all morning so she was there which was a shock to me and no idea she was on the stand and said I heard him clearly beat her that night and until her who was going to kill her killer family. I heard the gunshots. I heard it all before the trial. Liz spent spent three months in jail. But compared to the hell she'd been trapped in it was almost an escape ultimately I was acquitted. Thank God it just all came together. I talked to myself I looked at the jury and I said you know my attorneys can help. Tell the story. This is is how I lived. This is my proof. The restraining orders the police officers my friends and family women's crisis center. I mean I did everything they gotta was acquitted or my God God. I remember that day I was so oh free but I did still cry for a year because Tim had to die over all this. I cried Craig per year although I had my son and I wanted to be stable and I tried to be strong and stable for him had to get it out of my system and I went to my priest and confessed that I shot and killed him to save my life and he said that God forgives me. I felt really good. I ran into several of Tim's family members after this and they helped me tight and told me you that they understood to me. Had some anger issues and drug problems so they didn't hate me mm-hmm but after Thames death pieces that connected his timeline to Frankie's killing began to fall into place for Liz. Starting with a large sum of money he'd supposedly come into soon after Frankie's murder which meshes with an earlier story from Greg Johnson and that Natividad had received a payoff after Frankie's death. Tell me where the money came from. But he did come into money. We later found out that he hid it in the fan of the bathroom. The apartment were Tim died. There was a story that Tim's brother got forty thousand dollars out of the bathroom bit of money and I didn't know if it was a rumor that incident would have happened while Liz was in prison awaiting trial. I didn't know sister. Karen is the one that clean my apartment out when I went to jail and carrying goes. It's so weird. Less the apartment manager came in was yell L.. Let me for taking part the bathroom bit and I said I didn't do it. You know you leave me alone. I'm not taking their permanent part. And getting Elizabeth things out of here. I I call him that. Large sum along with Tim's taunts about having killed a man continued to haunt Liz. We really wanted to figure era. Who killed? He said he had killed someone. I believe. It was at my attorney's office when we realized there were two people that died and Michael Franken was one of them. Uh I remember vaguely seeing that on the news a whole bunch you know the the higher up was murdered and you see the police tape. You know an the whole of attention to it but then something happened. That did catch attention. The release of the sketch known as the man and the pinstripe suit and then the composite during the came out the newspaper and on the news to me in mice. My sister carrying it looked like Tim. We were shocked and said Oh my God it looks like ten. Interestingly enough as we've touched upon earlier that sketch barely made it into the paper. While I was calling around around trying to get the picture that I heard the state police were circulating among corrections employs. Trying to figure out who this man in the pinstripe suit was you know why wouldn't they release it to the press. If it was of interest to the state police wouldn't release it. I called Penn and he refused to he said now I I said why he said because it's not any good. This is not very good. Did he elaborate on what he meant by not good known Not to me. I personally didn't care whether it was good or bad. I wanted to get it so I kept calling and finally got a copy from Vinton when you first saw that sketch. What were your thoughts? Wow what a great drawing. What's really good and in fact it had been done by Joyce Brian Brennan who was one of the top three police artists in the country? It was excellent you when it comes to meet quality makes a huge difference in texture and taste and even though it might be better for you any environment a lot of higher quality meat you find in. The grocery store is just too expensive for most people's budget thankfully there's butcher box much. Your box believes everyone deserves access to high quality. Humanely source meet at an affordable price. That's why each month but your box. Ships curated selection of the finest cuts. Right to your home. Choose from one hundred percent grass fed and finish Ashby's free range organic chicken heritage pork wild caught Alaskan salmon and sugar and Nitrate Free Bacon. No antibiotics no added hormones loans. Just meet the way meet should be this black Friday. You can get butcher boxes. Ultimate steak sampler. That's a total of eight free stakes plus twenty dollars off your first box walks. Just go to butcher box dot com slash iheart or use Promo Code Iheart at checkout. That's butcher box dot com slash iheart or use Promo Code Iheart a checkout God. Kevin was back in Florida trying to pursue his brother's case with long distance. Phone own calls. which in those days meant racking up thousands of dollars and phone bills he'd been told by Governor Goldschmidt to direct his questions to Dale Penn.? The the district attorney assigned to Michael's case but pen and Kevin didn't exactly get along. He was a sniveling. mealy mouth wouldn't answer a question directly when I say mealy mouth in the first meeting that we had was with my brother in two in. The governor the Governor's reception office outside of his official office and I was requesting the copy of the autopsy report and address that request Goldman and he's a is the main to ask ask pointing to Dale Pen and they'll pay goes on this mealy mouth game and and I said is that a no and and then he couldn't even say no no Kevin felt he was fighting uphill battle with pen from the beginning especially over getting Mike's Autopsy. You finally they agreed to give me a copy of the autopsy report and he sent it to me in Florida and was four pages that was probably eighty percent blacked out. Redacted basically said Mike Frankie described him and that he died stab wound. Everything else blacked out. It wasn't just the Middle Finger. It was a smirking while a kick in the ribs. Here you go sucker. I guess the you know he's thinking is I'm thirty two hundred miles away. What am I gonNA do? But Kevin and his older brother Pat refused to to settle for the redacted report. They wouldn't settle for anything less than the complete autopsy even if they had to fight for. It here's Phil Show. They EH hired a lawyer. In Salem. Steve Classic has been with them. All this time to sue state officials to get an unredacted copy of the autopsy which which under Mara they were entitled to back to Kevin. We did finally get a full copy of the report but it was through through having to sue the state of Oregon and all the individuals involved including Dale Pin and the Government Goldschmidt and with peanut them to bring him into court to justify withholding the autopsy. Report when it's in the Oregon State Law it's called the Brady bill that the members of fame player entitled to a full copy of the autopsy report and any other medical information to have the district attorney and the head of the State both denying what's written into the law of the state of Oregon into the constitution and to have them plumped at just the arrogance of those fucking bastards is what grips me to this day. How could they? How dare just flaunting their authority Kevin Recalls the day? They finally received the report. We were Steve Classics Office. Three forty one St Street downtown Salem Oregon just a few blocks from the courthouse and Steve did picked above. But I guess from Dale Penn's office brought back to the office where bad my were waiting flown in for the Asian. Here's pat stay on getting the unredacted unredacted version. Or you're almost to the day I was up here and I got the full copy of took that to New York and set with Dr Michael Michael Baden who became famous years later the Oj Simpson case and he read the thing that got us calculator out and he told me that Mike probably didn't love more than about six six minutes that he was fully conscious about two minutes and losing consciousness after two minutes the because of the severity of the wound the nature of the wound that he he would not have survived even if he'd been in hospital it was through and through just destroyed or part of his heart during the time the family was fighting for the autopsy they were also getting numerous twisted and anonymous tips claiming that Mike had been mutilated or murdered by ritualistic torture that was months before they finally confirmed that there had been no ritual type it was purely defensive defensive wounds and attack ones and no other signs of mutilation but it took shit six months to get that so you're living with these movies in your mind the Trojans the feed fire that you don't want letting the first place so that was the first thing that I wanted out of the whole thing was to verify that Dale tell me the truth when he says there's snow mutilation because del pin had a tendency to lie and then to be able to identify the nature number and location of the ones and how the entry wounds made my sort of an angle and in part of the autopsy reported. There isn't mentioned of what you see when you see did the autopsy photos and there's obviously a picture that shows that make was identified. He got a pretty good wag the head the photos were the worse. Because I knew mice brains scenario running it a million miles an hour is he's bleeding out known as thinking this gamely that's Sharing the unredacted autopsy and photos of Mike with their parents was heartbreaking for the brothers seen scene two people in more pain in my life hurt. Have worried about my kids. That scares me if I ever had to get to. That I'd probably put a bullet my head And then adding the insult that they were only shared with Mike's Family under duress and with the threat when they were given this unredacted copy they were warned not to let it leak. If it leaked they would be prosecuted. That was the atmosphere at the time. That's incredible so. Pat Takes the autopsy back to Kansas City and shows it to the old man and they look look at it. They have questions since Dale pennant assured them that they'd they'd run it by the FBI. The old man called someone he knew. Clarence Clarence Kelly former director of the FBI who had also been chief of police in Kansas City and asked him about it and Kelly came back and said no they never talked to us. And that's when the old man's world sort of fell apart. He said they've been lying to us. They've been lying to us. It was as if not only killed his son. They sort of killed his faith in how things work out how the world works and he was crushed so dale ten. Uh told Michael Frankie's father that he had run the autopsy past the FBI and that never happened. That's what he found out. Yeah he apologized to me. said they'll pins been lying to me. He's been lying to us and it crushed. My Dad that that was a professional is the greatest generation. Thirty years in the army colonel. Full bird colonel is a man that put his trusted God and country and could not believe and I think he felt that. I was being in disrespectful when I was questioning authority. He was sad that I was right. Let's go back to revisit. The resistance to releasing the sketch of the man in the pinstripe suit which now in light of the autopsy and FBI issue seems more noteworthy. Why do you think you were met with resistance? That's another big puzzle here but it's such a strange inge place for them to lie. Sometimes you you have to figure out what's going on by the lies. They tell him that that that was definitely ally on pens part. It's almost as they were afraid that someone would see that sketch and recognize the person. Yeah that's about the only thing you can conclude Kevin Agrees bitched at him about not releasing the picture I said why won't you release it. He says it looks just looks like a lot of people. No and that's the problem. That was the problem when it came out. I looked at it and no. It doesn't look like a lot of people bits. Let's is certainly eliminates a lot of people and these are the rain and fills column was horrible. It was like a one inch facts from thirty years ago which you know like doing little pencil Batson thank so everybody that saw the column says it looks like Shit but but they were forced to put at the real one and once people. Well you've seen the real one looks like a photograph and that's when Liz and her sister stir saw the drawing of the man in the pinstripe suit. It looks like Tim Native at it did to me and my sister immediately immediately the woman who had lived with Natividad believes he was the man in the pinstripe suit. The rest is really nice. Sometimes he loved to dress really nice. It was coming together for me. Started coming together okay. Tim's claiming to have a lot of money. He became so paranoid and violent worse than ever before started collecting. Dot's for myself so liz went to the police. It's hard to remember exactly but I do recall frustration. Gratien guys I think Tim Kill Michael Franken. Need you to look into it. Tim always carried a knife. Tim had a huge knife collection action. Tim was violent. Tim told me he killed somebody. I think it's Michael Look at this composite dried. And how did the police react to to this bombshell. They laughed and said do. Can't convict a dead man. There's nothing we can do here. That seems a pretty odd response from the police particularly securely sense it could have led to the truth. Here's PAT steak longer than why was on. The more chance was whole thing. You're going to blow up in their face Komo or go away. And the easiest way to end the investigation into Michael Frankie's murder And make the whole thing go away find someone to pin the murder on a patsy On the next murder and Oregon an unlikely suspect is arrested. Saudi so many other folks that are probably. It's just didn't make sense and charged with the murder of Michael Frankie. Mike Kieron's a convict from the Idaho State Penitentiary attention claims Frank Gable told him he killed Frankie during a car burglary blindsiding everyone including Frank Gable. I walk into a complicated drug ring and really don't know how complicated it was. Until now murdering Oregon's hosted by Lauren Bright Pacheco and Phil Stanford executive producers are Noah Brown Lauren by Chico and Phil Stanford Supervising Producer and lead editor. Is Taylor chicane. Sound design by tristen McNeil story editing by marital written by Phil Stanford Matt Riddle and Lauren. Bright Pacheco music written and performed by the diamond street players and mixed by Taylor's Aucoin with music supervision by Nicole Brown additional music by tristen McNeil archival elements courtesy of K. G. W. in Portland Oregon the station behind behind the podcast urged to kill murdering Oregon. This production of iheartradio I'm Zoey Deutch. I'm Amanda Seals. Hey there I'm Bellamy young and today I'm GonNa talk about what I wore when I ought to for scandal. Welcome to what I wear when production of Glamour and iheartradio. I'm your host host Perry Samuelson each week. I'm sitting down with a woman. I find fascinating to talk about what she wore during a pivotal moment in her life. Listen to what were when on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

Tim Liz God Tim Natividad Michael Frankie Oregon Natividad Murder Salem Oregon Kevin Mike Mike iheartradio California Anthony Michael Franken murder US Karen Carrie Rothschild apple
Youre real screwed up! Talk to me more about you.

Misfit Stars

1:11:47 hr | 1 year ago

Youre real screwed up! Talk to me more about you.

"Welcome to the misfit stars. podcast I'm Shannon Curtis and I'm Jamie Hill. Hi Hi everyone hi Shannon going over there. It's a okay over here. Do you know what what is special about. Today's podcast. It's episode fifty superstars podcast show. PODCAST is over the hill. You know what that means. What does that mean it means if this silver jubilee episode? It's our silver jubilee. What what does that mean? That's like fiftieth anniversary celebrations. The silver jubilee is it. I thought fifty was golden anniversary. Did you look it up or Google. It really quickly lately but maybe I screwed up. I could be wrong to. I don't know now we have. Hey Theory is the fiftieth year the golden or silver. Okay okay. I found this on the web. Fiftieth golden all Silva. Check it out by the way Jamie has his a series set to a South African the voice which is really the voice that we use all summer long when we're getting directions from place to place on tour and so we get to make fun of how how the South African Siri Voice mispronounces a lot of American words endless entertainment and not mispronounces lake. We're making fun of a South African accent accent mispronounces Lake misinterprets vowel combinations. In a way that no one who knows how to read the English language and any accent would do. Yeah but the other thing about the South African Siri voice that we learned. Is that one thing. She's really good at is pronouncing German words for some reason when we went to take our car into get service at a Volkswagen dealership up a while back. She directed us to the Volkswagen Dealership street-by-street directions and then when we turn onto the street for Volkswagen. She's she arriving. She says arrived at Vauxhall. Like turn into this. Like serious like goose stepping Nazi theory. That's what it's very eerie. We did you find out what the golden or silver anniversary so for anniversary is the golden one. Okay okay. But I'm now googling. What is a silver jubilee? Because that's important information. I've never heard the word jubilee. Silver Jubilee Twenty fifth anniversary of significant event. Oh sense senses has screwed that up. Does that at the first five minutes of this podcast APP Golden. It's the golden anniversary sort of weak bursary because it's not it's not annual weaker versus a week. Yeah W. E. A. K. of resolving parts. No we're doing great just all over the place. This is scintillating multiple ways. It's falling apart are people are taking. Notes are people driving off the road in their car because they're enthralled they can't believe you're listening to something this amazing anyway. Fifty does sound like a really impressive number though and I liked that also means that. We're just two weeks away from our actual first anniversary of the podcast but we took weeks weeks off so it could be right around now. Well no we've released the first episode on Thanksgiving Week last we did hear So how do we manage to take two weeks off and still have this be the fifty I I don't really know I don't know we'll work. We'll work it out. We'll figure it out before we reach our anniversary. People say you know what I think. People like the best about the misfit stars podcasts the rigorous seperation. It's this is clearly rigorously. We thought through prepared this. We're going to say about it right. We've got our facts straight. We gotTA figures yeah nothing straight actually cool and we do great. Hey so welcome. Oh Yeah Hi listeners. What's happening? Hey if you're a new listener first of all we're so sorry and also welcome. It's nice to have you Looks from our statistics like we might have had a couple of new listeners. Last forty cool. Thanks for joining us is everyone yes. It's uphill from here and thank you to our new supporters also Whenever we get a new supporter really warms the cockles of my heart? Sure the cockles. Dr Michael I don't know that's a weird word. Are they any night. Use that word but an expression actually a cockle. I'm not I'm not sure but I just would like I just chime in restaurant. Used that word plenty of anatomy glasses in college. There's no cockles. Biology degree negative. Because you knew about cosmos or not because they aren't a thing thank you to a new support you right whenever we do get a new support. The areas around our heart feel warmed. Yeah I mentioned the cockles somehow. My Gosh sure well. It doesn't mean a lot because what it means when when somebody becomes a supporter of this podcast. It means that they have had a little conversation with themselves. And they've said you know what this podcast is pretty cool and it brings some joy and insight into my life and I value it and some jubilee knowledge something useless potentially really incorrect knowledge anniversary markers people going home today. You know what I learned on the pod today honey. The fiftieth anniversary is a silver anniversary in spouses are like no no. That's not that's not right. It's cold Jamie. Said something about cockles and it was on a podcast. I think that means it has to be true. Yeah so so. Thank you those of you who have become supporters. Yeah thank you to those of you listening to this and somehow have arrived at the conclusion that you to want to become a supporter. Yeah if you want to do that. There's there's a real easy way to do that. You go to misfits stars dot com slash join and that is the page where you you can just very simple easily. Walk through the steps to become a supporting member of this podcast because this podcast is a member supported podcast meaning that you know a lot of the episodes are free for anyone to come. Listen to there's no ads. There's no ads but is made possible by the monthly contributions of our supporting members. And if you become one of those members a cool points for you automatically be you become one of our misfit stars one of our stars and it's this this you know I guess exclusive group of self celesial selecting exclusive both self selecting exclusive which is pretty cool. Yeah you can just become part of a secret exclusive society diety. What's not secret? It's told you about it sh- actually dukes and we'll have more subscribers and the support that we get it from our supporters. It actually matters we actually just got our monthly installment of that support. Just a couple of days ago comes at the beginning of the month every month. It ain't things that comes in and we're like Oh that's really helpful and you know what else comes in around the first of the month bill. That's IT works out great. So thank you so much to those of you who have thrown your support behind us. If if this podcast means something to you you enjoy it in your life you want to. You want to grab hold of this like you know other small way to support what Jamie and I are doing in the world vis-a-vis this podcast come on over. Become a star at misfit stars ars dot com slash. Join you know while you're on the computer doing misfits stars related stuff. Quick pop on over to apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to this and leave a five star review rate and review. Oh Yeah Five. Stars Review Rate and review. That would actually be really helpful to us because when a podcast has a number of good reviews than that podcast hosting services algorithms algorithms like the itunes apple podcast algorithm or whatever it puts it higher in people's you might also like this suggestion lists. Yeah imagine if people who like the same stuff you like got shown Mrs Stars and be cool and then they could listen to. Maybe they'd be like you know aside from the misinformation about jubilees and it's actually pretty good. Thank you I haven't been married fifty years on earth. Would I know that. How would you yeah other than the pocket computer? I have access to the sum. Total of the world's China's such straight anyway. So that's right. Yeah so after the break. Today we have listener topic. We're GONNA take a second stab listeners. Right we we attempted to do this one last week. But we've kept the first part of our podcast very short today so that we will actually get to the listener after the break but are talking last week. We did our listener. Topics come from our supporting members from stars. They are the ones who get to suggest these listener topics and so if you become a member you can to sample that. You're listening to this. You're not yet a supporting member. But you've been listening to a few episodes like a fantasy enjoyable. That might keep doing it. Be I have something on my mind that I would actually love to hear Shannon and Jamie talk about yeah. You could suggest that if you're a supporting member I'm just saying MRS STARS DOT COM Slash Joint Karen who is a member. Did this suggested this topic. And it's on how we maintain social grace and open minds when we encounter someone of a different belief belief or value system. Do we always succeed at doing those things. Were not going to talk about. But we'll get to that the end at the at the second half of this episode today after the break so stay tuned for that in the meantime so what did we do this week. We did some stuff we did some stuff. Yeah we didn't happen in around the house it was. It was a cool week. We've really kind of like I feel like maybe crossed the transition period of coming home from tour getting used to being home now into like now. We're doing productive things at home things cool enjoying it. Yeah me too. I feel like the transition went well like I don't feel stressed out. I feel like I could be doing a better job at doing a little more reading a little bit less phone but stuff suspend interesting lately on online. You know well. I was at election That's right but Yeah we did a bunch of music stuff this week. First of all you have been working really hard at mixing a Janis. ACKMAN's records coming along. Great sounds good. It's starting to sound really cool And Combined Day of that with some mentoring of this new Sort of artist producer engineer. Friend friend that I have just. It's a really cool situation so I met this guy This guy's name is Julie and He's a lovely human being. I met him in the funniest of ways like we. We had a little pair of speakers that we weren't using. Yeah and so I put them on the Internet to sell yes and he replied that he would love to have him but he was the second person to reply right. They ended up going to the first person right because that's how you have to do that. But he was just super friendly and started a conversation. Yeah and then I am. He's like could be meet up for coffee and talk. I'd love to pick your brain about stuff once. He cut found out what I what I what I did. You know and so we met for coffee and hung out for like. I don't know two hours or something. It was a long hang. And he's just like justice. Really Neat like just smarts smarts superfast mind. I'm kind of like that too. I moved quickly. You may have you know and so like we covered a lot of ground and it was just really engaging in conversation toward the end of which he said. Would you mind if I came and just watched you work one day because I've literally never seen professional do this path. He's completely at least self taught and he's just been figuring stuff out right but he is so me twenty years ago. Yeah so like twenty years ago when I didn't have anything really but dreams and a little computer pewter and some ideas about production I would just read anything I could get my hands on right. And he's doing the exact same thing like now with access to the Internet. He can do it way better than I could. Twenty years ago but it wasn't like now he's reading manuals obsessively of gear. The key doesn't even own just to understand understand. How gear works late? He figures like he told me. I figure if I read about how ten different compressors work. All kind of how compression works. That's amazing which just brilliant right is hungry for information hungry. But you can't just you know he's an auto didactic and he's never had opportunities to sit with someone who actually knows what they're doing well and he's an artist who also writes writing music and like figuring out the production staff at what she sounds like also enjoys but working out the production Steph Jeff as a way as a means to record and produce his own music that he's making your which is that's so great. I mean seriously like setting up a situation intentionally only whereby you can be a self empowered artists who has like production control over their own work as a big deal eight lexical ideally. I wouldn't have a job. You know what I mean. Ideally like every artist would it. Just be so uptight. Every artist would be so up to speed as a producer engineer that they could just make their own stuff. I mean there is a value for an outside opinion and all of that and also for each person unlike. Some people just aren't interested in that kind of you know I I write songs and I can make my own like songwriting demos. But I don't have the level of interest in the process of like what makes a compressor work or all those those details. Although I see your protocol sessions I guess compressor and the KNOBS are not in the default place. Okay Sometimes I. You heard doing things. Sometimes I fiddle but I don't have. I don't have the passion to take Jake those things to the to the extent that you do you know and it sounds like jubilee actually does also have interest in that so yeah so but it's really cool that he's able to come over and like it was fun to be a fly on Wallace needs to you to discuss e Q.. And dynamic sin there was an. It was an interesting thing for me to do because what I really had to do is I had to when I'm working. I'm just sitting there working and I'm just doing stuff in an intuitive way and I really had to take it from one side of the brain to the other side of the brain okay. Here's an instinct. I'm having before I do the thing I have to explain the instinct and then the thing that I think I can do to satisfy fi this thing that I'm hearing right right and then go about doing it and it has to make your own process a little bit more rigorous if you have to say it out loud as you're doing it yeah you're checking your work so absolutely absolutely and also trying to explain it in a way that makes sense to someone who understands some stuff and is super smart. But for sure. Doesn't you know and understand a tenth of what I do because I've been doing it for so long long right you know But it was really rewarding too because also like he's super superstar superfast pick stuff up immediately like picks it up immediately in the way where the follow up question he asks makes it just transparently. Clear that he not only understood like at face value what I said but also implications of what is right and that's cool but that was rewarding. Oh it was great great. 'cause we yeah. We shared a meal with him too while he was here and got to know him some more and I I'm always interested in somebody who's making music who's like writing you you know like what's your motivation for writing. What is it that you have to say you know? And it became really clear that he that he writes from a place of I have to tell. Oh my story. He's got stuff. He's got stuff that he's experienced in his life into perspective that he wants to communicate through art making and that's me is like always the most compelling thing and we we talked about this at dinner to like you can be you know as talented as is anyone else on the planet more talented than anyone else on the planet you can. You know we've rehearsed you know you can learn all the engineering ins and outs you can all that kind of stuff. It doesn't matter a thing if you don't have something to say so true. It is the foundation of everything so it was fun to here like his story a little bit of it and I'm eager to hear more of the music that he's making if he's written like Jillian songs and lake close to sixty days recorded awarded. I mean again where he's just getting started. Yeah it's wild yeah And so he's in the process of compiling his what he considers to be his ten best. The ones again most proud out of and he's GONNA WE'RE GONNA get dropbox folder going together very see. See what it's about. I posted about this on facebook the day that he the day after he was here. So some of you who are listening. Who might have seen this on facebook of already seen this? But he mentioned something kind of like in passing as we were wrapping up the evening. That really struck me. And like I've been really thinking a lot about since then and I don't even sure I can't remember how our conversation with their but he said music loves loves everybody and that's what I want to be. That's why that's why I want to do this. And I just I yeah. I never really considered considered it from that perspective. But you know he prefaced it with one comment of contests realizes it and my listeners. Which is music doesn't choose who listens to right? That's right. Wow how deep. Yeah and you know I think about that in terms of like when I'm creating something you know I'm writing from my own perspective. My own experience variance. I'm getting it out. It's you know it is very meaningful impersonal to me in that way and then we've talked about this on the podcast before to like once you make a song and you put it into the world. It's doesn't belong to me anymore. And it belongs to whomever's listening and making it part of their lives or their world and I'd never really considered the idea That that's like that's like an act of love you know what's amazing is like. We've had the experience multiple times you and I were. We're you know apropos of your material. May Be at a house concert. You know someone will come up and be like I love this song Blah Blah Blah. Whatever the song is I just love so much that you wrote a song about x and the thing that they're like your song x is not at all what to you and therefore to me the song is about you know what I mean but like? They're not wrong to them. That's what the song long is about the song about right right right absolutely. It's really like it's sort of like an interesting metaphor for like it. Just how we exist in the world to right like like we talk a lot about on this podcast state. Being staying on our side of the street earned her personal personal relationships and those kind of just like healthy boundary living. But it's kind of similar right like I I would. I want to impose my own view or perspective on any any one of my songs on anyone else or do I want them to have the freedom to come to it as they are. You know as like that's that's what love is. Love is being able to come to something as you are and and so it. It just seems like sort of a beautiful lake umbrella metaphor for just existing in the world we offer ourselves we offer ourselves as authentically and in his true away as we can and then we let it go you know and and and it just seems like that's a neat metaphor for sort of how to live in a loving way toward the world. Absolutely our buddy. Jen commented on that post you made on facebook was like that should be your next t shirt. And you're very accurately relate. Man should be jubilees next absolutely. I would buy t shirt that says music loves. Everybody absolutely absolutely would get that teacher one day. Yeah seriously yeah I feel like this this conversation. Actually did you have to say about it. I like this conversation. Really kind of like dovetails very nicely into the experience we had yesterday. which is that? We drove down to Salem Oregon to install a kind of like a recording studio installed recording studio. It was more than just a music computer. That was that was the original goal but we can talk about how that goal all sort of balloon to blossomed into something bigger but we installed a recording studio in a center for Youth Transitional Facility for youth eighteen to twenty five life. Yeah and I feel like our conversation with about music and what it means. The world really dovetails nicely with that. So why did we go to Salem until they give people the background. Sure sure so So we went to sail because we have a very dear friend Shan Tae and Chan Tae has been Just a dear personal life now for like seven years we figured yeah yeah She attended a house concert and then went to another one that you're after that that was twenty two thousand thirteen and fourteen fifteen sixteen seventeen eighteen. Nineteen she has hosted has six in a row now. And just our relationship with her. It's just been so rewarding She's just got the coolest family The whole thing is great. They're just everyone is lovely and their friends are cool and wonderful people and the virus just always so need everyone so creative just great love it love it love it love and so chantal. Just got a new job this spring as the program director for host. It's been it's been there for like thirty something years. And their meantime and they do amazing work. They transitional services for kids in the position of being announced and kids not not meaning like children because these are people built their target population is Eighteen to twenty five. Yeah and so. We went there to do a gift of Music Concert Concert on our tour this summer and that is something we do. We've done for the last couple of years in our album fundraiser. where if someone buys is this level of support package for album fundraiser? We will go perform a concert for a group of people or in a place that wouldn't otherwise probably have access to To the concerts and so like for example. A transitional shelter for an has youth and it was an amazing experience The kids are so wonderful And you know I say kids because like they're technically adults but that eighteen to twenty five age and it's it's like yeah you can be tried as an adult but your frontal lobe isn't even baked until the very end of that age range also saying kids because literally any of them could actually be our children. Yeah that's really true. Yeah and and also lake. There was a really joyous sort of childlike old. Lake atmosphere. Not like an infantile kind of way but like all playful China It seemed like there was a lot of intentionally with them whether they would be be able to articulate this or not. I'm not sure but there was just so much play among all of that. And you know they've all been in such difficult situations. I mean a lot of them living on the streets. Yeah I think pretty much all living on the streets for at least a night or two before they found this place you know some of them still living on the streets but coming in for days every day services and then going back out to fend for themselves overnight you know oh my gosh. Yeah and so did this concert and there's this there's this one Really sweet kid and you should. You should pick up the conversation here and talk doc about how he's Shanghaied you after the concert. Yeah so we met a bunch of the kids before like we had built in time to meet and greet and gets no people before the concert and then we then we sat down for the concert itself and so I had met pretty much. Everyone you know that stayed for the concert beforehand This one particular kid will call them. S For this conversation. I mean we did. He did sign a release that we could use name for a photo. So it's on my facebook orange. Look Okay Yeah so but he sat you. Would you invited him to sit. Next is to you during the concert and so he did that. He's real shy real withdrawn and it just seemed like maybe he could use a buddy. Yeah and it was kind of a Loner Shanta and also had said also pointed out as being somebody who I was particularly interested in music so you had them sitting next to you and I notice that he was like looking at your mixer at times but honestly most of the time during the concert he was sitting with his eyes closed. Hands kind of like folded on his knees. And just taking it in like intentional absorbing the experience a really just Intentional kind of way and and then after the concert we were hanging hanging out somewhere and he comes up to me. He's like would you come with me for a minute back the art room and they have a room you know sort of as part of the facility to the end of the hall at the end up facility and it's they're like art slash music room and we've been in there earlier in the day we were going in. And he's like in this week. Showed me In the music room I should say they had A. They had a keyboard that people could play guitars. And then lots of art supplies and stuff people would do painting and all that kind of stuff so just a couple of Alexa hand drums. Minimal instrument music making instruments. kind of stuff. You could probably find at goodwill as probably confounded donate hodgepodge donated stuff. So but he he he brings us back there and he pulls out this This like a notepad like illegal had and he had written on it like four pages of lyrics meticulously written now this was not his first draft because there were no scribbles or like messy. It was like clearly lovingly written down. You know transcribed these four pages. And he's like these. This is a song that I that I wrote. And he had two pages that were labeled at the top with the letter s and he had two pages that were labeled at the top letter C. and he explained to me that you know in the song there's a there's a sub-conscious voice which is the ones with the S. and there's a conscious voice which is the played pages with the C. And I imagine that the that when this you know when the song is recorded that like the the conscious voices like over here in the headphones and the subconscious voice has like a treatment on it over here that sounds district to her right and left everyone but you right but he he had he had all thought out like how the song would go if it recorded as a recorded piece of music production ideas that he'd written down. Yeah and so he. He thought this all through but there was no way for him to execute that idea like he he had it all thought out and you know clearly outlined but no way to actually execute and so our wheels started turning. Yeah almost immediately after that and it wasn't that same day yeah it was so my my immediate thought was. This kid needs a music computer and so I said about AH trying to get them one and you know I got it for the facility but like I and you know I I told I told Channel this last night like I got it for the facility but I got it for him right now because really like I just remember how much music saved me when I was when I was transitioning out of being homeless. So you know It's all I wanted to do and I created an opportunity I was someone else was very generous and creating opportunity for me to make music musical fulltime part of my life that person it was Jaycee good and he was a club owner. Yeah he gave me a job. Doing live sound arguably didn't deserve a job doing laps out right and And he really believed in me and gave me an opportunity to to to start the thing that became where I am now right right Jay. Thanks J. UH-HUH I thank Jay every chance I get I have told him this. You know to his face. I have told him this On facebook. I've told this messages. I probably thanked him ten times. I'll probably thank him one hundred more you know But yeah I know I know the power that that being so passionate about something creative like that can have like in that sort sort of transition. I mean it's odd that I also have homeless homelessness in my story. Yeah you know but it's also I don't have homelessness in my story but music saved my life. Yeah in in that kind of way. Also you know like if I if I didn't have if I didn't have the opportunity ready to to work on to write songs and perform them in front of people and and figuring out how to scripture the resources to make my first as little recording. You Know I. It was essential to me in my in the most. Like fragile transitional part of my life. Also you know it was. It was a lifeline to be able to just create something to all those roiling stuff going on inside of me to have an outlet for for making it heard you know it was a little flag that you can plant a little piece of the Earth and say I'm here. This is who I am. Yeah yeah totally a big deal totally so so i. I did a facebook fundraiser. At one of my head now patented Lake side quests that you call them side quests Y- ah I ask you you would look a little back of the Napkin sort of Budget and you're like okay. If we can raise seven hundred bucks we could we. Could you know. Get the gear needed to make some record. Yeah I figured I could get like a used I mac. And maybe a crappy audio interface. I mean anything's better than what they have. Because they have nothing right right right and I figure they just use their on headphones and just like you know at least it would be something that they could just like noodle on yeah but People took to the story and went nuts. So you posted it on facebook where you did all this. This totally made just a single post on facebook about it like just Atlanta situation and and people long story short ended up contributing Like like a little bit over sixteen hundred bucks so which just made it a completely different vision that I was able to execute and so we really installed a little recording studio yesterday. we installed Some a pair of really nice Speakers Studio Speakers Really good used AMAC Really Clean Really Nice powerful A really good mid range audio interface. with a lot of good tactile like it was a a goal for me to everything. Be just like obvious to us an easy to figure out possible because there's going to be people using who don't know anything about it so I wanted to be one knob one funk. Yeah you know like you'd hold down this button impressed. Yes the sub menu. Thank God you know if you twist Inaba does a thing and there's a light associated period and that's great yeah audio interface for those of you who are not into music world is the thing that gets audio from the real world and did the computer. It's right vice versa. Convert sound into one zero us. Yeah and you know. Hopefully it sounds good while it's doing it and that's what you pay more or less for. They all do the same thing. But you can pay you know a hundred bucks or you can pay ten thousand dollars. It's just a question. And how good is this. Yeah and so we got but like they get better really quickly you know lake the sub two hundred dollar ones or kind of crap but then like anything above two hundred dollars much better so we do that and that's And then just a bunch of microphone stands and microphones in a really good cabling for everything. A pair of studio quality headphones. The same kind that you and I are wearing right now because that's what we use around our house because they're great yeah Not to mention the computer the computer and the computer and And then what else and cabling and just some odds and ends stuff you do cook it together and all that you know everything that you would need i. It's it's essentially a fully functioning little mini recording studio. I could make a good record on this absolutely absolutely next record on this. Set up if you had to. We have to record here by four PM every day. I'm kidding yeah but it's I mean it's amazing. You know like that that we were able to to give to them You know courtesy of our amazing community. This just it's a really good setup and then we spent yesterday like I spent the first hour like like setting it up and then spent the next thing. I don't know four five hours. Whatever it was like a longtime raining Our our our young friend in how to use everything he needs to know. Oh to run this system he tells he picks it up to your teaching how to roll cables. which is there's more to it than you think? You haven't done it before. And he was telling he till he got it like Doc. An expert by the day was done. You know it's great because we had a stack of like you get the cables out of the packaging and they're all sort of in the twist ties wherever they come in. But then it's like you've got to put the VELCRO APPS on him so there you have to have a vocal up attached to each cable so it just lives with it and that makes it easier to the whole thing and so it's like okay. Show them how to do the first one and then there were like nine more any any screwed up pretty badly but I made them do it again. Then he did okay but by the ninth when they were looking nice. Yeah it was great. Well that's what happened to your to Ray when you first got involved audio in here. Who is mentoring you first thing? I learned how to roll cable. That's it and he wouldn't let me touch the soundboard until I knew how to do cables right and that was like the second. Yeah I was just doing cables thought. We had to compress time frame a bit. But you know the first half hours rolling cable But yeah by the end of the day like he had walked him through like making a little test garage band session and he was like cruising around in it and doing stuff yeah and blowing blowing his own mind like on a every time you heard newshounds like his is with like. He's he plays his emotions close to his vest now. He's has had a lot of trauman in his young and I don't know that necessarily showing a lot of outward emotion. A lot of over to motion is the safest thing for him all the time. Necessarily but even within that frame he was he was enthusiastically. Visibly excited it was really really really sweet. If you WANNA see The picture of this young man that he signed. It's because like the. There's a client relationship kind of privacy sort of thing that places like this. Have to really be very careful about and so Chris permission to post his his picky he'd literally signed a release signed and dated a release saying that like we could post his picture which is super close so if you WANNA see his beautiful smiling face just go to my facebook book page facebook Dot Com Slash Hill Jim. That's H. I. L. L. J. A. M. and you'll see him. It was rewarding as heck yes and I imagine there will be some ongoing mentorship there. I hope so uh-huh and the when we met when we were there for the concert Couple of months ago was that a couple months ago and We met a bunch of other and kids there and a lot of them are musical leg. I heard one of them play a beautiful classical piano while we were there and Others were singing. You know. There's one kid had this really cool like almost like musical theatre type voice you know really like the very beautiful lilting. A lot of them have have music in them and I just I wish this hope that you know that. Maybe the the young friend that you trained yesterday. Might you know I. It sounds like he was eager to actually pass on what he learned to. Other people. The center you know it'll be it'll be interesting to see you you what they create and maybe they wouldn't be so interesting learning the engineering but maybe he could record that exactly exactly and lake help them make a little lake make recordings of themselves performing that they could carry around on their phone. Imagine how impairing that would be like. Here's me I'm an artist. I made this straight totally and the other thing And the you mentioned this in your facebook facebook post to and. I'm really glad that you said that. Because it's been on my mind you know Giving a gift like this you know. It's you know the people who who contributed those of you who in our community who contributed to the fundraising for this This gift of a recording studio. Thank you by the way goodness. You're amazing There's a big gift right. It's like all the staff who came in yesterday to see what we were up to in that room. We're like holy moly so you know it's a it's a really nice. You know thing I in in a place where people who come for services. There don't have a lot of Nice Nice things if any nice things in their lives. It's a it's a big deal but I feel like I've been thinking a lot about the notion that like a gift. Ah that it's just a gift. There's no expectation like so when I say I have wishes and hopes I do like I really hope the best for this and and Ah the same time you know. It's it's important to just it's important to just maintain a a an open handed nece about got it and and let it be whatever these folks want it to be in their lives. I need thing about it. Is that this. Computers Theaters Air Gapped Lake. It's not on the Internet right. That's I don't get wi fi at that room like that. Like the only way for that computer to get on the Internet is if Shanta goes down there with your phone and turns on on her hotspot connect right right which we had to do a couple of times to download a couple aspen drivers or whatever for the computer you know but like the kid. There's no way that they can't go back through and uses just to surf the Internet on the Internet right which is so creative machine and that's it that's it if they want to get files off at to enjoy like put on their phone or whatever are they literally have to put him on a like a USB drive drive to another computer yeah. That's great. It is great. Yeah Yeah so what a great day what was just one of those days that we left smiling and it was great feeling good so those of you who contributed to that effort. Thank you so much speaking of things that made us smile this week. Yeah just WANNA mentioned this quickly. Our dear friends Karma nate goes on a day trip as these are friends. People that we have here in Tacoma. We were introduced to them by our friends Brad and Kim loomis whom he loves dearly and they have become people who were superfund up here and they live in our town and they're great they're big supporters of independent music. They host house concerts on their own and have been for a long entendre. True Believers are wonderful They're smart they're funny. They're great and they offered to plan and surprises with a day trip to Saturday. Okay so like. We didn't even know we were going. All we knew is that we just had to show up at noon at their house and bring nothing and just planned to be all dressed in layers and here we go. Yeah it was it and they took us to the Washington coast to some favorite spots of. There's there and oh my gosh. It was a perfect day very few clouds in the sky. Sixty sixty degrees light breeze in the sun. Lucky we were spoiled. It's just it was picture. Perfect Autumn foliage everywhere sitting have been that Nice now the Washington coast on the second of November early November should be pissing down rain forty eight degrees so yeah it was great it was beautiful. It was thank you carbonate. If you're listening to this. It was a really fun day just to get to go to be at someone else's mercy don't let go and see things that spot that are meaningful. Unfold them that they enjoy. It was really neat. Dang we live in a beautiful state tomato sauce. Two Bald Eagles five away to locate. This is how magical our day was you all the day. The last spot that we visited on the coast it literally ended the visit ended with a Bald Eagle taking taking off and flying off into the frigging sunset over the ocean. I'm not kidding. You like all the national anthem played in my. We're all all saluting. I'm so glad that none of us actually saluted sitting there quietly respecting the troops in the eagles the Eagles Eagles. We'd actually my dad's from Philadelphia. So there's a tie in there. Eagles this is this is what going off the rails. Hey take a break and when we get back from the break. We'll tackle Scott's topics so back in a SEC Uh We're back back. Did you miss us. I missed us. I missed us. Yeah we have a listener topic from Scott Schreiber and Scott. Says I'd like to hear. How did you hear me spent my fingers I did? I did says I'd like to hear how Shannon and Jamie maintained social grace and open minds when they encounter someone of a different belief or value systems thinking that we do that got. That's the very charitable. We appreciate that a lot. Being on tour you must encounter many kinds of people side note. I know that Shannon had an interesting encounter at my house concert grimacing face. That's uh-huh face. We actually did spend a bit of a podcast over the summer. When we were doing our summer adventures podcasts Talking about that particular long story a real short Shannon got what's the word proselytized witness to these other of those pseudo pseudo aggressive kind of way. Never not uncomfortable yeah. There's no way that that happens is good totally the interesting question. I here's here's a sentence no one probably ever says yes. I'd love to hear about Jesus I don't know I'm just saying so Scott about maintaining social grace. So far was that Greece Open. Mind it we do. We encounter all different kinds of people and that was that became really obvious. When we first started touring nationally? You know like we got outside of like just what you know the West Coast. Jimmy started getting into other other regions of the country. Like there are all different stripes of people out there and we need a lot of different kinds of people so And I think that it's been really. It's been really good to to get to know folks with different backgrounds and different perspectives perspectives. Different belief systems and value systems. You know like I think that like the overarching thing for me personally has been that that you know regardless of what all what's attached to a person in all of those ways like what is it. What is it like to be in a room with them to share space with them? Are you able to be open to each other. And and gracious and loving toward each other like kid people do that and the answer is most of the time. Yeah Yeah and I think you know. It's that's a big asterisk though. which is that one or both of the people has to not get super personally invested in the interaction? What do you mean by that? Well like if you you know if if like say for example in that sort of you know being witnessed you situation like the problem. There was that in that situation. One person's super invested in and the other person is invested in you having a particular response right and that's that's what the whole interaction for them Kinda hinges upon where you can just exchange ideas and touch upon them if there's disagreement move on or probe them gently but move off when it's uncomfortable but if as long as there's like a sense of thing we're doing together other an unspoken understanding that we're probably not coming at this from the same place right but let's just see where we're each at and have a conversation about it and keep things cool wool rhino. I think it's one like it when when both people don't necessarily have that commitment. Let's keep things cool that unspoken thing go wrong absolutely we absolutely and it's it's unusual in a social setting where you're meeting people for the first time or you know them in a really casual way for someone to cross a boundary in that way. Yeah and to to to not respect your person hood and you're you're right to you know to have your own ideas says or thoughts about things your autonomy. Yeah Agency but there are. There are some people who are. I'm convinced that it's their job to convince other people to think like they do and you know I mean is it. Weird are one one hand. Is it weird unusual. Well there are things about about like there. Are Things about like how I how I see the world for instance that I do wish others more more people would think about the world in that way like in terms of like over the course of my life. I've learned a lot for instance. It's about how how I used to hold pretty bigoted views about LGBTQ people. For instance. I I was raised in a tradition. That taught me that that was wrong. And so I developed all these belief systems around the idea that that was wrong and an gratefully. I was given opportunities in my life to undo that thinking and to to change my mind. Yeah you know and so. That's that's an area where like I would like for those people who who don't see. LGBTQ people in their full humanity to think more like that. I would like to. I would like people to think for like me in that way if they don't already right so so it would be disingenuous to say that you know I don't I don't WanNa try to convince other people to think like me because there are some things that yeah I wish. I wish that I could influence people. Although is is it that you wish that you could influence them. Or is it that you wish that they would be influenced or would have some kind of a conversion experience like because you don't you don't just go around like spouting often like seeing who's on which side and right you don't you don't take a poll and people who are thinking wrong tried it. Can you know you don't proselytize. LGBTQ positively right right right. I get it I mean but in some way I do like I take the chance time every chance I get to talk on this podcast about my views about those kinds of. That's not directed at any one individual conversation like if if you're making somebody uncomfortable it's not personal right so I guess the point is that like I could encounter a person who has a different point of view about something and we can we. If we're both on board with with not trying to strong arm the other person into our own point of view then then we can share ideas and look for places of connection. If we're both interested in that that's easy easier to do. It's when one person has decided it's their job to convince Vince the other one to change their mind and they can get tricky. Yeah you know what's always super instantly. There's a there's a certain aspect respective this that where I feel like I can just detach and just like really get interested in someone else's point of view. which is it's a really specific niche subset? which is is a person who is a it's sort of endangered minority in one group having views that are in in a weird way kind of bigoted toward an endangered minority of another group? And here I'll give you an example K.. Right okay we have a we have a contingent of people people in our world In the Mid West we have a big huge redneck. Lesbian following and part of the redneck lesbian thing for a subset of with them is that they are super pro gun and blue lives matter and therefore like anti black lives matter and kind of pro cop anti-black in the shakes so you know and some of them living very proximity to Ferguson Missouri. Right right and so like a few years ago. That was like a really of the moment issue like it was is it was everyone in the country was talking about including us as we were on tour coming into these people's communities ten miles away from Ferguson and having these really wild conversations where in where Blake Blake Lesbians being being like all pro cop about the Ferguson thing. It's like the same people. Broadly writ who are are who have their thumb other boots on the next of black people. Also have your boots on your neck. Because you're a lesbian. Like right there should be solidarity here and it's just so interesting being to me too. Like hear them explain probably from their point of view even if they're not articulating it directly. Because I would never ask is probably directly but just like talking about why they feel the way they do about that from there you know. Sort of unspoken point of view is like Air Lesbian. It's like well that's so interesting to me and that's the kind of thing that I really genuinely just like. I could listen to them. Talk about that all daily you find it in one way reprehensible that's for sure one of the examples of a point of the point of view like you're talking about a minute ago. Wish you didn't have that point of view. I would like to see that changed in you but also like you have to understand that moment that if someone has a deeply believe that I'm not gonNA be the one to change it right. You know what I mean. So let's just want to listen and learn. Yeah Yeah Fair enough I think that's also illustrated an illustration of how I think we tend to I I mean we we do this as humans. We tend to simplify things as much as possible and put people in categories because then we can just file them away like okay that person is XYZ. You know and I think this is an illustration of the fact that people are way more complex than we give them credit for a lot of the time. So like you know your assumption going into the conversation that okay. The lesbian ought to be on the side of another marginalized population visa. The you know the focus and you know black lives matter protesters protesters and then they blow your mind cause they weren't well. Guess what there's room in the world for someone's maybe internalized turn analyzed white supremacist. Tendencies to override the the the solidarity with another marginalized community. They might be more white than they are gay right so humans are complex. And I think it's important to remember that like and I think that we're talking about the rich tapestry of human existence. This is part of that is a better for worse earnings and a lot of things. We're kind of veering off of the original topic. When I'm going here remedy status anyways like look? We listened to summer to a podcast about whiteness seeing white and and we started listening to the follow-up the next episode or the next season of that podcast called men and both those and other things that I've been reading stuff over the last few months have really started to reinforce his idea. Yeah for me that like the layers of society this sort of strata of society. You know where we divide each other up by race or sexuality or by you know gender that you know that that that what what boils would it boils down to for you know one group needing to keep another the group down. It's just about maintaining power. It's all about that. Racism is about power. Sexism is about power. Bigotry is about power. Xenophobia is about power it's all all goes back to power right insult you can. You can kind of understand how lake someone who has white supremacist. Tendencies or internalized racism. You know that that could trump you know solidarity because of you know of or a potential solidarity because they are sort of unspoken sub-conscious thought process is being like well. Yeah I I am Gay and and I get shit because of that but at least I'm not black right. That'd be worse today mean. Yeah yeah so I guess it's an important lesson in that. People are a lot more complex than we assume them to be. Sure you know so true. Yeah but I think you know the how to maintain social grace race for me going into different circumstances where we know. We're going to meet different kinds of people you know there are times times. There have been times when you know. I know that like like two two summers ago. We brought the show the space between on the road which was a show that that dealt adult pretty directly with divisions in our society based on race and and based on bigotry and things like that like racist communities well and so there were some nights where I knew going in I felt like I was going to. I was kind of going to battle a little bit you. I'm not sure that here's what those circumstances taught me which does relate to this topic that Scott brought up today about how to maintain an open minded and social grace you Kind of people have different belief systems with that taught me. Is that Lake Okay. I've been invited into this place to do this thing that I do. This is the record. Do put out this year. You know when we were booking these house concerts. The first single we had out in the world was a song called. Hello Don which was about like waking up to the idea that things are Ruvuma stuff right now. A new made a conversational video for that. People were forewarned not a mystery what we were going to be bringing in bringing on tour that year so so so you know going to those places places where I felt like we were kind of going to war. I are going into battle. We were invited to be there. I had created. This show had written these songs we had created the show together. Are we like at that point. All my my my only job was to show up and do me right like I. I was my job was to show up. Do the show that we came to do and the rest is out of my control right. The rest is up to them. And you know if I if I if I say that I believe that's the way to approach the world. You know I have to have to like live that through you know and so it became honestly like a a nightly practice of mind especially that summer when we brought that particular show on the road knowing that it was gonNA maybe rub some people in make. Some people may be pretty frigging reckon uncomfortable. Maybe some maybe uncomfortable. Sometimes I had to I. That's when I began my sort of nightly mantra of sitting down at the piano. And just saying it's my job to just offer myself and love these people and you know like an and so you know when when you approach the world in that way like that. That's it's all we can do right And we can hope for the best. Yeah and you know also like I think it's really important to like. Set the idea to that like that that maintaining social grace does not mean acquiescing or not pushing back share. You know what I mean like. Yes definitely the I've had to learn is how in situations like we're because we'll definitely just have people come up to us every once in a while and never it's not a a frequent thing but lake. Just start come up to us and starting inappropriate conversation. You know what I mean like Lake assume for whatever weird eared misguided reasons. Why on Earth would you assume this about? Either you or me that we'd be super into like some anti immigrant kind of talk right right. Oh you're from from California especially with you know like Oh you guys used to live in California emigrants. Aw Shit like why. Would you even think I'd be the person person to talk to you about that. But like that aside like okay. It's here now. We're talking about pray for my own self respect and like just my own integrity. I have to can't just be like. Yeah you know what I mean. Oh Yeah it's but it's also important not just to insult somebody somebody because that's not a productive thing you know and it's also not going to help me accomplish. My goal is changing their mind. Eventually I won't change their mind but you know what I will do if I push push back at them violently as I will show them to double down on and build another tiny candy coated protective layer of anger around that hateful feeling feeling. They're having what I really want to be. Soft and encourage softness in that person right away some of his heart and calcified layers right. You know and so you know asking probing questions and and Listening Lake and not just listening to rebut. We talked about. John is a week or so ago. Not Listening to respond but listening to learn now. Do I think I'm GONNA learn something useful from a racist or a bigot. No not necessarily but learning learning what their mindset yeah and the thought patterns or their life experience or whatever it might be that have led them to arrive at this place that they're at uh-huh Lake that's good to know about that instructive to me. If only sort of Jujitsu we kind of way right like knowing how things like that. Thanks and we're like building my own internal database of how people who think like that again. They're not like they're not a model list. Like there's a lot of different types of ways that people can think about stuff like this and just like learning some of the different different like other commonalities or things that people generally think were generally feel who hold these kinds of US travel the country. You know they watch Fox Fox News. That's absolutely be a lot of and what can you do. I mean that's if someone's watching propaganda they're sort of lost. You know what I mean. Yeah and and I don't know how we get them out of that. Let's shut down Fox News do that anyway. I didn't mean to interrupt you but you're right it can be it can be instructive that kind of an ear and I think we'll go ahead and by being a good and respectful listener but also in a respectful way pushing back. Yeah lots lots of you know. Doing yes and stuff you know that can that can be really helpful like as like asking people just like why do you. Why do you think that is why? How do you feel that way? Like really asking probing questions of the other person is not just like not trying to robuck but just trying to get them because sometimes the best rebuttal to To a factually inaccurate argument is just to let the other person play out for themselves right not to immediately rebuffed and then they defend and then you're both stuck but that'd be like interesting. Tell me why you think that. Do you feel that way. Yeah you know and just let them run the whole real out and maybe by the end of it will be like even even if not to me just internally lake. Yeah there were a couple of inconsistencies. Maybe that's maybe the best we can. You're absolutely right about the Russian that like those of us like so just having different. There's some things that we we can have different beliefs about the don't really matter right right right. Ford Chevy. I'm from Vermont. So let's let's let's not get crazy. Remind what are you supposed to be. Well I mean it depends where it's not like Vermont is Chevy Contra. Okay right but it's it's just like it's the kind of place where like if you're a four person your fricken four per se and screw Chevy but again this issues. That just doesn't really matter in the real world. Sure it's not harming anyone really to have an opinion one way or the other but there are clearly a lot of things. People have the strongly held beliefs about that that when those beliefs are acted upon in how they treat people how they vote how they interact in society can be detrimentally harmful to people and to particular populations and I think that in that regard you know we're we're way past the the live and let live right age of things with a lot of that stuff you know like the those of what I have learned about the structural racism in our society What what I've learned about the the the structural bigotry the the things that are woven into our culture the the sexism the You know things that are foundational to to this entire society in which we all exist. The areas in which I have privilege ledge with regard to those areas like it is my if I'm not if I'm not using my voice to speak up for what's right. In those ways that is me acquiescing to the status quo which is harmful for other people like we're in. We're in a position. Now where like those of us who who who can speak about and and offer those moments of reflection with others about their belief system if it's a belief system that is harmful. It's our responsibility to do that. I think that's right And we were. What is the the quote the Silence as always Yeah so that's that's where we're at and I think your point about how to sort of you know. Listen with genuine curiosity about where someone's point of view is coming in from and then asking probing questions to help them sort of identify getting a little deeper. Getting someone defensive never helps now and it will only serve to reinforce their views. So it's it's hard for me. Sometimes I have to say because I can get I can get pretty Dang mad you might say like Dang for example. That's that's steamy steamy right. I use curse words guilty about you. Bless your blessing. Now the crossroads you could say I feel really passionate. I think you know I think I have to when I when I dig a little bit a little bit deeper. I think some of my I can feel sometimes for people who have expressed bigoted racist or you name it. Beliefs beliefs about people in the world. I think that part of my rage when I I'm really honest about it may come from the notion that for a lot of those beliefs I used to buy into that belief system like an older version of me. Was the person saying you know that it's embarrassing to say it out loud. An older version of me was the person saying that homosexuality is sin. I mean that's and that's cut. It's embarrassing for me to say that you know like we. We've all harbored stupid somewhere on a spectrum team stupid and repugnant of using our in younger versions of our lives. It's the very rare person who hasn't save yourself some great thank you. I appreciate that by that. But it's important for me to acknowledge that I think that that might be the source of some of my rage. It's not necessarily righteous anger all the time it is some some part of it is a seed of me being really angry at myself for having held those us for as long as I did in my life. Yeah right right. We often see qualities and other people that we either having ourselves or have had an ourselves that we don't like we transfer our anger or our emotions about those things onto others. So I think it doesn't. It's an important thing for me to keep in check. You know in terms of my emotions about that stuff But if I can actually acknowledge that in the moment that also maybe Oh helps would help me to identify an empathetic way from where someone like. That's coming in. That's absolutely true. And that kind of gets back to what I was talking in terms of like like just like really hearing someone out on how they arrived at their belief system. You know 'cause like I think when you fully the more full you understand where someone's coming from and the more effectively you can maybe help guide them out of that place right yeah. Hopefully I wanted to add one more thing before we sum up is that if that's okay is that that part of part of of my journey has been to figure out how to actually actually stand up for myself and some of those circumstances because like my tendency with my co dependency is to is to shape shift in any conversation conversation with someone to make them feel like. I'm agreeing with them. That the Mike you're on their side like I'm on their side exactly like I'm super conflict averse and so I don't want to you. No I don't want to create any sort of feeling of rift with another person but it's been really really important for me in my own personal journey to figure out how to stand and firmly in who I am and and to be able to say confidently what I would I think. Even if it's not what the other person wants to hear that that moment you know. So like for instance in Scots example. When he said that he he remembered US having an experience with the guest at his show this summer and this person started off with questions about what is my? What is my spirituality and I thought at first maybe she was just genuinely curious? You know what that part of my life looks like and so I you know onto cool. Let's talk about it. You know I love talking about that stuff. Sure it became very clear over the course of our conversation that she had an agenda that she she really wanted to convince me to think about those things in the way that she thinks about those things. And it really bummed me out you know first of all because I thought we were going to have a conversation but I had to at a certain point when I realized what was happening I had to make a decision to sort of lake steel myself and be like okay I. It's not. I'm not being in true to myself if I just let her sink. That I'm in agreement with her or do do that that that conflict averse thing that I I can do really well. You know that it was important for me to figure out in the moment and it was like I was super tired at the end of this conversation because I was like my brain it was on overdrive trying to figure out how to remain true and say the things that were true for me while also allowing her to to be heard it was really hard you know and I. I don't think that we ended into place is certainly thinks she was happy with the conclusion of our conversation. But you know like I literally had to say to her like Ken. We just agree that each of us has found a path that's meaningful to each each ourselves. And Can I. Can I celebrate with you that you found some really works for you and can you offer me that. Also like I had to ask her to to You know respect that boundary and she she kind of did so insertive begrudging way and left deflated which I guess it worked out you know. I don't I doubt I'll see her again. You know but that's okay. That is all right. That's all right and I feel like deflated. It is appropriate there. I feel like that worked out the way that should have you know. Yeah so yes got Social the grace generally open minds. Maybe not as much over being A. Where's the thing right like open mind? Mine is not exactly maybe the perfect frame for this right because open mind sort of implies a general malleability and willingness to entertain and. There's a lot of stuff that I am not very malleable on nor willing to entertain shirk. I am at a place in my life where I don't feel at all like I've learned everything there is to learn that said. There's a certain set of core beliefs that that I feel pretty strongly about that. Don't feel like they're going to be changed by anybody around things generally in the social justice arena. Come at me with stuff about immigrants or raced I For Talking Shit about the poor or Class stuff or you know any any of the myriad ways in which we're terrible to one hundred segment each other out in the groups that we then try to oppress like I'm not going to change my mind about that stuff which means I don't have an open mind. You know right right now. If you want to make a well-considered argument to me about the virtues of like Penny Pasta versus Spaghetti listening holds the sauce inside the noodle go on my thing. But I'm willing to listen. Yes but we're we're comes where someone else's humanities involved. I don't averill open mind. Should have an open mind where someone else's humidity is being threatened. Yeah absolutely appropriate there at all. Yeah but a curiosity about about how someone has arrived at. Those views might isn't could be instructive. Maybe that's maybe that's more what it is. Wow Man you're real screwed up talk to you more about the social graces. We're good at that. So Scott I hope that was something along the lines of what you were asking asking about our rabbit trail certainly tickets. I people usually come in the big rations so hopefully it worked out. Yeah but thank you. Hopefully at least you enjoyed the discussion and you know what I would like to hear what you have to say Scott and other Stars in our group. We didn't mention this earlier but people who are supporting members of this podcast become members of our private facebook. Group you get invited you'll have to turn down the invite We'd be hanging but blue eyed love to have a conversation in the group about this topic of other people who are listening to have more to say. We certainly have not exhausted the topic so chime in let us know what you think What did we miss what you know? What do you have to say about it? Let's go right before we get wrong. Yeah I've definitely curious And if you want to become part of that group into not already part heard of that group do you miss fit stars dot com slash. Join and you become a supporting member. Here's the deal basically. It's this if you have five extra dollars per month and you like what we are doing in the world and you would like to support us in that small way we'd be really grateful for it so You can become supporting member of the podcast and by so doing become a small support to what we're doing and all the small business of Gorkha aggregated turn something much bigger than you do stuff with it like makes his podcast which you love right. You're still listening don't she. Lets let's you're still listening. You don't hate it or your hate listening to it or you don't know how to turn off your IPAD. Yeah yeah which said Yeah. Okay listening to podcast for our can't turn it off show Alexa for the love of God. You all thank you so much leads for listening today. we will

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NPR News: 06-30-2019 10PM ET

NPR News Now

04:58 min | 1 year ago

NPR News: 06-30-2019 10PM ET

"Live from NPR news in Washington. I'm Janine herbs. Federal aviation. Investigators are in Texas looking into the cause of a fiery plane crash at an airport near Dallas this morning. The left ten people dead officials say that twin engine. Beechcraft king air, three fifty hidden unoccupied hangar at Addison municipal airport. President Trump is back in Washington tonight after a historic meeting with North Korea's Kim Jong Woon and fears. Bobby Allen has more Trump became the first US president to step into North Korea with his photo op and meeting with Cam. Now, Trump wants to do what no previous administration has been able to accomplish convincing North Korea to dismantle its nuclear weapons program. Victor CHA isn't hopeful. He was the top career adviser in the George W Bush administration, the North Koreans have demonstrated over the past twenty five thirty years that they're not willing to part with all of their nuclear weapons. So they're willing to freeze some of their capability, but they're not willing to give up all of their weapons because it's the only thing they. Have that makes them secure in the world today, just said before a deal the north would have to verify how large its nuclear stockpile is which the country has long refused to do. Bobby Allen, NPR news in Oregon, a day after Republicans ended a week-long walkout the state Senate was again. Delayed today when Democrats demanded a Republican member, who threatened state police be barred. Lauren Dake from Oregon public broadcasting has more. The walkout is over, but the tension in the Oregon state Senate remains high before Republican Senator Bryan Boca's went into hiding. He told state troopers they should quote, come heavily armed in, quote, if they plan to come after him now book was his back at the state capital, some Democrats say his threat to state troopers warrants barring. And from the floor he says, as an overreaction if people are worried, they shouldn't be that's why we have state police there. They do. Find job went democrat walked out herself to protest Boca's presence without all the Democrats on the floor. They could lose priority bills under the state constitution. The legislature has until midnight tonight to finish their business. Anna churn for NPR news. I'm Lauren Dake. In Salem Oregon, the census bureau is facing a deadline to start printing twenty twenty cents as forms by tomorrow. NPR's Honsi Lewan has more. President Trump called for a census delay hours after the supreme court ruled to keep off forms for now this question is this person a citizen of the United States, Steve Choi heads when the challenges of that question, the New York immigration coalition? The court ruled that the citizenship question was not about whatever cockamamie reason, Donald Trump gave for the supreme court ruled then fact this citizenship question was a direct strike at big immigrant rich states like New York. The printing of one point five billion paper, census forms and other mailings was scheduled to start on Monday, census bureau officials have said that could be delayed until the end of October, but that would require additional resources and could jeopardize final sentence. Preparations on long news from New York. This is NPR news from Washington. Crowds carrying rainbow colors filled streets in New York City today for one of the biggest pride parades ever. The event marked the fiftieth anniversary of the infamous raid on the stonewall inn LGBTQ parades took place around the country today in San Francisco that parade was interrupted for about an hour by demonstrators protesting. Police presence, host Indian officials have condemned Trump administration officials for attending the dedication ceremony of an Israeli archaeological project in a Palestinian neighborhood of Jerusalem. And here's Daniel estrin has more. Israeli officials say they've excavated a pilgrimage route to the ancient Jewish temple from two thousand years ago, and it will later be open to tourists. The underground archaeological site lies beneath a Palestinian neighborhood at the center of the Israeli Palestinian battle for real estate in Jerusalem, the archaeological dig was sponsored by an Israeli group that also settles Jewish families in the Palestinian neighborhood. A liberal Israeli group says Palestinia. Ian homes above the dig suffered damage and some families had to leave their homes Palestinian officials called it a quote, racist, colonial settlement enterprise that seeks to turn the area Jewish White House Mideast peace on void Jason green Blatt said, archaeology points to ancient Jewish history and said, quote, stop pretending it isn't true. Daniel estrin NPR news Jerusalem, at the weekend box office Toy Story, four hung onto the top spot with an estimated fifty seven million dollars in its second weekend in second place, the horror film, Annabelle comes home debuted with twenty million dollars on Janine Herbst, and you're listening to NPR news from Washington. Support for this podcast and the following message come from frame bridge. They make custom framing easy and affordable frame. Your art in photos at frame bridge dot com or visit their new stores located on fourteenth street and Bethesda row. Get fifteen percent off your first frame bridge order with code NPR.

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NPR News: 09-11-2020 5AM ET

NPR News Now

04:39 min | 4 months ago

NPR News: 09-11-2020 5AM ET

"Live. From NPR news in Washington I'm Windsor Johnston. The Nation is marking the nineteen th anniversary of nine eleven today NPR's Brian Man reports. Ceremonies will be held in New York, Pennsylvania and Washington D C nineteen years ago terrorist US commercial airliners distract the Twin Towers and the Pentagon also bringing a passenger jet down in a field in Pennsylvania New York. City Mayor Bill De Blasio says that heartbreaking day showed his city's resilience. People all over this country and all over this world were in awe of New York. City and people grieved with us but they also admired New York City because of the pandemic names of nearly three thousand people who died will be spoken today at the nine eleven memorial museum. In Manhattan using audio recordings made by families a separate ceremony will include a live reading of the names of those lost Ryan men NPR news president, trump rallied supporters. In Michigan last night Quinn Kleinfeld her from member station W. D. E. T. reports trump took credit for revitalizing the US auto industry and also defended comments. He made during interviews with Washington Post columnist Bob Woodward trump called journalists, Bob Woodward a wack job, but acknowledged as Woodward wrote that the President Knew Cove nineteen was deadly but did not want to say so publicly trump quoted historical figures who like him he says kept people calm amid crises. He also claimed his trade policies and pressure helped bring auto plants back to Michigan though only a relative handful of new major factories are being built or retooled in the battleground state Queen Clientele Ter- reporting hundreds of thousands of people have been forced from their homes and Oregon wildfires continue to burn. Oregon. Public Broadcasting's Conrad Wilson reports the state. Department of Corrections is evacuating more than thirteen hundred inmates from facility in the north western part of the. State the Coffee Creek Correctional Facility is about fifteen miles south of Portland. The prison is almost all women. The inmates are being sent to prison on the other side of the cascade. Mountains. Annabel does says she's an inmate in the minimum security portion of the prison smoking. All morning we started complaining about it bill does called well, she was waiting to be evacuated. She says, inmates were handed a plastic bag to pack any medications and personal items. We're all nervous and scared and we want to know what's going on earlier this week. The Oregon Department. Of Corrections evacuated more than fourteen hundred inmates from three other prisons near Salem Oregon. From NPR news I'm Conrad Wilson in. PORTLAND. Firefighters are working to contain a massive wildfire burning in northern California. The North Complex fire has claimed the lives of at least ten people and rescue workers are searching for more than a dozen others. The blaze butte county has scorched more than two, hundred, forty, four, thousand acres. It's about twenty three percent contained. You're listening to. NPR News in. Washington. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is traveling to Qatar. Today he's scheduled to attend the opening ceremony of Afghanistan peace negotiations. The start of the talks follows intense diplomatic efforts including the US Taliban agreement and the US Afghanistan, Joint Declaration which were agreed to earlier this year. China and India's foreign ministers have met for the first time after a deadly clash between the two countries troops along a remote Himalayan border. This June NPR's emily reports. The two sides have pledged to disengage their troops there and work toward peace agreement. The unmarked two, thousand mile border between China and India has long been contested this. June. Those tensions turned deadly with troops pummeling to death twenty Indian soldiers both. Countries have sent in thousands of reinforcements to the border, and this week accused each other of firing warning shots the first time in decades. But when the two countries foreign ministers met on the sidelines of a summit, this week they pledged to work towards a peaceful resolution put distance between their troops. The current situation in the border areas is not in the interest of either side, they said in a joint statement. Emily Chang NPR news Beijing stocks across Asia traded mixed today. Japan's Nikkei average was up one hundred, seventy one points at the close of trading China Shanghai Composite Rose Twenty, five points. All of the major indices on Wall Street closed lower yesterday the Dow Jones Industrial. Average lost four, hundred, five points the S&P Five, hundred down fifty nine. I'm Windsor Johnston and you're listening to NPR news in Washington.

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