2 Episode results for "Saint Ravens"
J.J. Watt & Thomas Davis
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Thomas Davis who has dealt with adversity all season long from the death of his father, Tim returning from his four game suspension and ESPN NFL researcher, Evan Kaplan will join us to give us the latest insight in preview on week seven, but first JJ watt JJ. Thanks very much for doing this. I appreciate it. No problem. Thanks for having me. I'm watching the game on Sunday and I'm watching what you did, and I'm watching your postgame comments and your furred to the critics who the people who say you lost it, who, who said you had lost JJ. You know, we are, you know, we always y'all negative comments this your and whatnot. But I mean, I don't blame anybody that that said that. I mean, I don't. I don't blame anybody at all this last two seasons. So they have they have a right to believe that it was. It was possibly over that I could never come back and be the same. So I don't believe any. I don't blame anybody that had those thoughts, but it doesn't mean they can't use it as a little bit of motivation. Did you hear that though? I mean, did you hear people say you would never come back? You would never be the same. Oh, yeah, plenty. Plenty of people. I mean, all over whether it was just social media or whether it was media or whatever it was, but and that's, I mean, I, like I said, I don't blame him because I mean, right after my surgery, I had those doubts myself. I mean, I had, you know, after you break your leg back through the year before you're like, you know this late one was was worse than the back and my I mean, my leg and my girlfriend didn't didn't even tell me this until recently. She said that the doctors after surgery weren't even sure if I was going to be able to play again or not. So I mean, but nobody nobody ever told me that. I'm glad, but you know, this is you always have those questions in those doubts. I mean, you're human, you know you, you wonder if it'll be possible, but then one day just make a decision. So right. We're gonna take one day at a time. We're gonna work as hard as we can see. See we can make a bit when we're those doubts most real for you your own mind. Right after surgery. I mean, right after my surgery when you're in the hospital bed, when you can't walk for two months, you know you're laying on the couch, you can't do anything. You can't. You can't really do any rehab. You can't really do anything to work towards your goal. And I think that's the that's the time that you're doubting the most when you're literally just resting laying on the couch with your thoughts. Because all you have to do is sit there and thinking you try and watch TV and take your mind off it. But here mind inevitably goes to what what now? And I'm very lucky. I have a great girlfriend k. a. who who just went through ACL surgery herself before my leg. And she picked me up help keep me motivated. She help keep me positive through it. All. I have great parents. I have brothers who both been through injuries would always keep me help me pick pick me up in my teammates and coaches. So I'm just lucky to have a lot of great people around to all those people who doubted you JJ you now. Or Todd, the league lead and Saxon. Seven. Yeah. No, it's pretty crazy. You know, I mean, I love being out there with the guys. I just love being back on the field doing what I love. It's it's so much fun. I mean, just just playing football. You know you take it for granted. When your health being you've been healthier whole career and you do it Dan and day out, but then it's taken away from you. And once you get it back, just it's, it's fun and you just enjoy it and you love the work. You love playing. It's great to be out there. You talk about having fun. Let me have a little more foam with you. You've won the defensive player of the year three times and the only other NFL player in history that's ever wanted three times is Lawrence Taylor. What do you know about Lawrence Taylor first and foremost. Incredible player, obviously, unbelievable player. I know obviously a lot of things going on hostage shield as well, but he's just legendary player. I mean, he's he's incredible. Rack Romeo Cornell here coach some bit. But I mean, obviously I've watched film on them. Everybody's seen film on him. He's he's one of the best ever see. I grew up watching Lawrence Taylor, Jay, and I watch his first game and I remember his first game. He comes around the offensive tackle Irv Pankey. I believe it was the Los Angeles Rams in he swatted Jim Everett with his right fist. And I said, I've never seen a defensive play like that in my entire life, and there were many like that throughout the course of his entire crew. And so you have won the defensive player of the your three times and he's one of three times. So if you can keep this up, this sack total production. This way you're playing right now. You could become the only player in NFL history to win the defensive player of the year four times. What would that mean to you? It'd be pretty incredible. I mean, it'd be it'd be pretty wild, obviously very long way to go to get to that point. But like I said, I mean the game, you know, when the game was taken away from, I just wanted to get back out and play. You know, I just wanted to get back on the field play with guys and hopefully played a high level. So to be back in those types of conversations and to be back in that realm of the game, it feels great and I love it and I'm still working to try and be better. But yeah, that would be pretty special. There is a long way to go in there and that's fine. But the fact that you are where you are is pretty interesting and pretty incredible in its own way. And if you were to get to that award winning four times, we'll have a little more fun here. You realize that would puncture ticket to can't Ohio, and you'd be there with Reggie White and all these great defense blurs Lawrence Taylor that you have seen new about heard about. That'd be pretty cool. You're talking to grow. That's my jargon really getting really cared away with yourself. Now, I don't mean to do that DJ. We'll go back to all the people have said that you were washed up and couldn't play more Bill to balance back from the injuries. How about that, but the seventy four and a half sacks in your first five seasons is the second most all time behind only Reggie White and you're from Wisconsin. How much did Reggie White inspire you growing up in watching him and learning about him. I love Reggie. I mean, I grew up loving Reggie White. Obviously everybody in the state of Wisconsin, bubbling white. I was huge, huge fan, just incredible player, incredible guy. And it seemed like now everytime I, you know, I accomplish something whether you know all these people come up to you at stats. And after the game Lasky about the stats, say, just broke this record. Is that record, but it always seems to be second behind. Only Reggie White categories. Seems like I'm always second behind Reggie White, and I'm like feeling I'm always chasing Reggie. But if there's anybody in the world, I'm gonna be second to for for defense statistics. I'll take Reggie White. Did you ever get the chance to meet him JJ. No, no, I never got to meet Reggie. Unfortunately, I do have a signed jersey on somebody gifted me, so that's my house and it's a coveted position my, but I never got to meet him. Any other sign jerseys you had that means something to you? Aside from Reggie's. The two pools. One of the half of my brothers are think that I mean, I have a bunch of grape jerseys. I mean, there's a couple of really Leo Messi gercy which I think is awesome. But my brother's the coolest just because of what the significance of all three of us being handed fell and and where we, you know, playing in the backyard, you know, pretending down punts on the one yard line and plan, you know, just yard football. And then now here we are in the NFL. Bring up your brothers and your brother TJ in Pittsburgh is one sack behind you. How much does that motivate you? Is there any sort of friendly competition between the two of you on a weekly basis? We, we definitely after the game are quick to our phones to see what the other guys in in. We'd be lying if we said we didn't want to read, but also we'd be lying. If we said we didn't want him to get as many sacks possibly get. I hope he gets thirty six and you know, I want him to go out there and have an unbelievable season every game. I hope he has three sex. You know when I get back to my phone, but I also would be lying if I didn't say it was nice to have the lead for the moment. But if you had one more second, but the end of the season, what would that mean in the watt household after the over. I'd be okay with that. Are you okay with that? And I'm sure that there will be some by the end of the season. I'm sure there'll be some sort of dinner but on the line or something, but not yet. No, not yet through early. It's really got just trying to get now on trying to win games the last two weekends. We've been three the brothers. So we all want last weekend and we all won this weekend. So we're gonna try and keep that streak going. That's pretty cool. How does that happen? Not that often. We, we obviously haven't been that healthy the last two years. So we haven't been able to keep racking teach. It has gone league last year, so, but this year I think I think the last two weeks, I'm not sure if it's the first time it happened this year, but two in a row. So hopefully you can make it three in a row on a by next week. So they're silver in London playing the titans, which would obviously help in our my division, and then where we're in Jacksonville, so big, we can see you gotta get Derek a call and let him know, hey, take it to Tennessee this week, right where you do that. Yeah. Yeah, a little favor there pal. Yeah. Why not? Right. Exactly. Nine years old right now. And you mentioned some of these surgeries that you've gone through the back surgery in two thousand sixteen the fractured tibia in two thousand seventeen. How much longer can you and do you want to do this for. I wanna do it as long as I've planning at the top of my game. You know, I wanna do as long as I play very good football. You know, I don't wanna. I don't wanna be out there and just trying to hold it together and try to scrape together something that's clearly not happening, but I also love the game. I love. Like I said, I love being out there with the guys locker room. I love it. Also, I'm gonna you know, a couple of years ago I had more thoughts about it than I do now. I don't think about it anywhere near as much now as they used to. I'm just enjoying every day and taking one step at a time. The last thing I want to ask you about JJ is obviously you're filling rob pick efforts in the Texas area. You've raised more than thirty seven million dollars for hurricane Harvey relief in Houston. And I think that is a mind blowing number. We could give you all the sack numbers and four time Pro Bowl player in four time first team all pro, but thirty seven million dollars for hurricane Harvey relief. When you started to raise money. Could you ever have imagined that you get to thirty seven million dollars in counting in relief funds. No. This is incredible people out there in the world. And that's the biggest thing I've learned throughout that process wrote my career is how many people that are in the world. You know, many people want to help other people and just may not have the same platform may not have the same opportunity that I have. So I've been very fortunate. I mean, this is my eighth year in the league and just being able to use that platform to try and help the community try and help people. Obviously, Harvey during the difficult situation trying to do what we could. It was by no means a one man effort. I mean, there were hundreds of thousands of people from all over the World Health out and for strangers people they didn't know. And so I think that it gave me a massive amount of hope for humanity gave me a massive amount of just excitement about what what this world can do when we all come together for one common cause and we all step up to the plate to help out our neighbor and it was really special and we're still, you know, we're still. Seeing that money at work. We're still seeing people getting put back in their houses and distribution of food and medicine and things like that. People are still struggling. I mean, it's a long process and so I'm just thankful for everybody that helped. And I'm grateful to be in a position and I'm ready for my parents helped, you know, raise me and teach me how to do that. Experience change the man that you are today? I mean, you know, life is so much bigger than football. I think that's, you know, that experience in the last couple of years with my injuries and everything really help teach me about life in perspective and understanding what's truly truly important. You know what I mean? I'm, you know, I'm in the parents, you know, may have read my social media comments, a lot cured a whole lot about what an anonymous person online that the biggest thing that I realized is as long as my parents, my friends, my girlfriend, my teammates are proud of me. I'm all right. You know, it doesn't really matter what anybody else thinks as long as those people that are close to me know who I am know what I'm about. Are proud of the work I'm doing. That's that's enough for me. And you just do you and you've done a great job being you on and off the field. You have put me in that crowd. I'm proud of you to jayjay. It's very impressive. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. I means a lot and I appreciate you joining us today. Thank you very much. Continued to. Assess. I wanna see somebody become the first four-time defensive player of the year winner. That'll be an unbelievable honour. And now I could say that I had that person on my podcast is it gets so good luck doing that. And good luck. The rest of the way the season JJ. Get to work. Thanks so much as you'd be. Well, we'll be back in a moment with Panthers linebacker, Thomas Davis, but now is the perfect time to tell you about hotel tonight, hotel tonight partners with awesome hotels to help him sell their unsold rooms, which means you get incredible deals. The cool thing is the only work with hotels they think you'll love and as sure profiles of each hotel with all the info you need to know and pictures of what the rooms really look like. And even though the names hotel tonight, you can actually book in advance so you can use it whether you like to plan or playthings by year. It's the one stop shop for booking vacations or staycationing. We can get away road trips, business trips and more so start getting really great deals at great hotels and go to hotel tonight dot com or download the app. Now, Thomas, how're you doing. How did it feel be back out there. I feel great, so great to be competing with my team. The game obviously entered the way we wanted it to, but definitely feel good to be back out there and be a part of everything. What did you like when you're away from football like that? Thomas. It's a very, very humbling discouraging feeling to think about. You know, I've been away from the game before dealing with injuries where I wasn't able to play, but never in a situation where I've been completely taken away from everything can't have any contact with anybody can't come to the stadium at all. Like there was a strangely tough. I look at that and for me outside looking in, you know, always seeing guys around the league that's been suspended for PD's like you kinda never really feel sorry for those guys when it happened to them. But now that you're in a situation that you see what is actually like to go through it. This is tough man, and I don't really wish that on anybody because you know, you never know where the guy's going through or what's going on in the guy's life. And you know, for him not to have the guy that we lean on so heavily your brothers team, major coaches that makes it the same. So now if you saw somebody who spend it, you'd have an entirely different attitude and you feel sorry for them. Oh, no question though, of course, because I think what people to realize when you see these expensive, it's not automatically every guy that has been suspended, it's out there trying to cheat and I think that's the misconception that people get. And they think in the here PD suspension, they think, oh gosh, they can still guys taking ACH and you know, majority of the guys that have done getting suspended now are taking things that in products that they have absolutely no clue that the that contains the the ban sisters. So I think now after going through that and being one of those guys that had a test that they didn't know anything within, then you know, I have a very, very different approach and a different look at guys going through that. Now, you obviously, as you mentioned, you're not allowed to be around your team and not allowed to be in the silly. What are. Do you do every day. Well, for me with working out spending time with my kids don't have four kids. My boys are playing football, so I was out they helping coach their football team and 'cause really trying to make sure that came back into this that I possibly could now, I don't know that I've ever heard this Thomas and my condolences extend to you. You lost your father. You buried him on Saturday and left for Washington the same day, and then go playing a game Sunday. So it actually well, the first week of the season that I was suspended. I got a call on Tuesday saying that my dad had had a heart attack and he was brought back, but he was without oxygen for a while. So we I, the Jacksonville to be with him that Wednesday. And I. You know, we back and forth to Jacksonville going on there and seeing him, and he never, he never really pulled through. He ended up passing away and we had the funeral set for Saturday. But hurricane, I think Michael came through my hometown and completely rig shop. And we without power for like five days. I think they just turned the power back on down today maybe. So we had to postpone the funeral so is actually been moved to this Saturday. Wow. So you're gonna bury father and then traveled to Philadelphia to go play the eagles. Correct. And what would that be like for you? It's gonna be tough going to be extremely tough. When you having to say your goodbyes to love one particular San, your goodbyes to parent is, I mean, if even for, so I don't respect the motions to be any different this weekend, and it would have been last weekend, but you know, there's a part of life and there's something that we all we're gonna have to eventually phase someday what it losing your dad mean to you? Thomas, you know it was. It was very tough, especially during the time that I actually lost him. You know, while I was going to suspend not being able to, you know, Lena my brother's like I said earlier, and you know, understanding that I'm a father now myself and knowing that you know there was a possibility or chance that that we could have had a much stronger relationship. And you know, Billy coulda had a chance to to do so many more. Great things. You learn so much more for my dad, but he was taking away at age of sixty seven. So now it's kinda, you kinda look at it like, you know, you kind of on your own and now you gotta raise your boys and you gotta teach them all the things that you've learned for your dad and just kind of go with the punches with everything else that you did not very knowledgeable us. What's the biggest thing you learned from your dad? You'll pass onto your boys. The value of hard work. You know, my dad was always a hard worker on he was or God that it definitely love people. He loved to help people out as much as he could. And I think that's kind of why got it from all about giving back and helping others out and kinda who he was and what he was he was able to do when he was here. People don't realize that sometimes right. They put on the television. They come to the games. They watch Thomas Davis, number fifty, eight CM out there, and they have no idea that you some of your teammates of your brothers are going through situations in life. There difficult to the, I guess everybody's got that every walk of life. It's hard though. Question of course, you know, we, we're, we're not superheroes. They, it says, NFL players laugh. We cry. We bleed the same way. Everybody else does. When you have situations that come about like this, I mean, it's extremely telephone as it is everybody else you do a lot of charitable work and I know you work with a lot of school age children. What did you tell the school age children when you're away on suspension about why you're away from the game? You know, I just I've just the opening honest with them. You don't have leadership academy. We have a session the night that we have a high school group that we continue to work with Israel, and it's always. The message to the kids as always this, you know, take ownership of the things that happened in your life. Do not allow them to define who you are as person and just keep pounding. Just keep going and things come your way always be faced with that. Firstly, Oscar is gonna come your way. Just keep pounding. Keep going, keep believing in yourself and and understand that the truth will always that you free, and that's the message that we contain delivered to our kids. So if ten those leadership committee meetings, that's what I would take out of them. If you came on lucid academies, and it depends on where they it is. But if you get particular night that I was interesting the kids and talking about suspension, and that's the best that you got. But you know, we have a different curriculum that we're talking to them about all the time about community service about leadership. You know, list is really goes on what we try to work with these middle school age kids on, because we understand that that's a find that kids are gonna make a decision in which way they want to go on life and wanted to catch them when they leave their elementary school before they become high schools so that you know they've had the proper training and the work that they need to win their faith with a tough decision. They understand which way to go in making those decisions and they understand how some of their friends bake some of those decision. It's all about being a leader. How do you know you're having an impact on them Thomas? I'm sure you are, but how do you know it? This is our, you know, ten year in doing this, and we seen so many kids come. Through or you can watch the growth of these kids from when they first come in acting, shy, acting heaven, behavior issue having trouble in school, and you can see the kids grow to become a really good students become a very respect spectacle, young men and women, and ultimately just gaining the confidence that they need to go on and be successful kids. That's that's how we gauge, you know, this assess of our program, and that's why we're still going because we've seen so many great kids come through. We've seen so many kids benefit from the work that we're doing. We ultimately know that the parents are able to do a better job of raising their kids because we are helping these kids become better children. And that's what it's all about for us. You know, what's not smart, the way hiring used to be jump sites that overwhelming tons of wrong resumes. Now there's a smarter way and ZipRecruiter dot com slash ASP ZipRecruiter's powerful match. Technology finds the right people for you and actively invites them to apply. It's no wonder the ZipRecruiter is rated number one by employers in the US. And right now, my listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash ASP. That's ZipRecruiter, dot com. Slash ASP comments during your fourteen season when you're done playing, whenever that is, will you continue with the leadership academy? There's something else you wanna do what's next for you to lose. Ketamine is definitely going to that that we're very passionate about. We've even talked about with my board members even possibly starting to charter school someday. It only just making the leadership academy are huge thing, even bigger than what it is right now. But you know, this guy's really limit for me. I feel like when I'm done playing because there are so many things that I wanna do, they help families and help chosen out. And right now continuing to play football. Just can't put enough time into it because there's so much work than these to be done. Panta fans are not gonna like when I say this, but it sounds like you've got a lot of ideas about the futures, how much longer you wanna keep doing this before you can divert your energies and attention to real meaningful issues like this? Well, for me, you know, like we talked about earlier coming off of this expensive. I definitely don't want to leave the game knowing that I didn't play four seasons doing that. It was because of a suspension that you know, I I didn't have any control over. It didn't know that that substance that I was using contain the ban stuff too. So I mean, I just after you go through your career and you do things and certain way that entire career you don't ever wanna walk away knowing that. Okay. Comes Davis was a pretty good player, but you know, he had his four game suspension and twenty eighteen. You know, I and that's how he went out. I don't want that to be the case for me, and I feel like I'm still able to play at a high level. I feel like I'm still able to contribute to this football team. And you know if the, if that changes by the end of the season, then I don't feel like I'm contributing or if I could play, then you know, maybe I'll make a different decision that the end of it. But right now I still wanted to be a part of it. I wanna come back and I just to help the team of you now. Now, I think people will know Thomas Davis, aside from the fact that you create this leadership academy all the philanthropic deeds you've done you. You've played in a Super Bowl, the broken arm. You're the only player to come back from a torn ACL on the same knee twice. You did all this three times. Excuse three times the same ACL. Two thousand ten or eleven. What are you take out of that? How do you do that? I just really look at it as a blessing from God. I mean, you don't. You don't see that happen in this league. You don't see guys given that opportunity, you know, and I was blessed and fortunate enough to be with the organization like the Carolina Panthers that believed in me that owner to see me succeed and in new the work that out footing in to try to come back and they gave me that opportunity. And ultimately, that's the real reason why here because they believed in me enough to to allow me to come back and try to play. So I don't take that for granted and I understand that I've been favored in show many ways, you know, by the grace of God to be able to have those offenders, and they'll only be ACO and going in NFC championship game and break my fall on and breaking in a place where I can have surgery next morning, still able to come back and play in the Super Bowl. So I mean, things have happened, bad things are gonna happen to you. On your life. Anything that I tell maybe sip academy kids, it's up to you how you allow those things to define who you are. I mean, if you allow it to impact you negatively, then that's pretty much outcome. You're gonna get. You're gonna get a negative outcome, but if you continue to believe in yourself and you know that you can do certain things, then you're gonna have positive things happen for you. You mentioned you're gonna look at players who are suspended in a different way going forward. Do you reach out to or advise players who've torn the yellow because it's so devastating to see guys do this one week to lose so much has anybody you have reached out to you personally privately and just say, hey, I've been through this three times on one knee and I wanna let you know what you have in the future if you if you can think of a player that that turn. ACL pretty strong possibility that I, I've either talked to him east out to him in some capacity, pray form or either. You know, not just NFL players, you know, young ladies that are playing soccer, like I have a ton of people that reach out to me from, you know, looking my name up and looking up my story. Don't understand that. I've gone through so much from ACO standpoint, and I'm still playing at a high level of of people that reach out to me and through themes, and I'm usually reaching up or getting back with them. The most recent person that I, I've contacted with Jake, but you know, I know he's a guy that's going through it down in Denver. He went through it in Michigan. I was actually following the kid when when that happened to him in Michigan and now it's happened to him again, failed. And I just believe that he's going to be fine. I feel like he's gonna come back and he's going to have an amazing career and it looks like the. The sticking with them and and I would like to hope that the Broncos have looked at my situation here in Carolina and kind of said that, hey, you know, take his young. We're gonna speak by on man. We're going to give him up doing so you are the ACL consoler. I, if I'm here for them, I've been through it. So I mean this as to the greatest Hiller is spending. So I think that you know, I have a Duff experience dealing away c. l. so if anybody that needs any kind of help or wants to know any information, things that you need to know concern dealing with ACL, feel free to reach out to, wow, I reach out to you for guidance on how to report on them in the future. Thomas. That works too. Before let you go and I wanna thank you for your time and your generosity and your thoughtfulness, and it's been tremendous. I gotta ask you, what's the most unusual out that you've seen Cam Newton wear. Oh, man. What do we begin with that? Probably probably the the one that he wore to Super Bowl. That was probably the most unusual one, and we gave him a lot of grief about that one. He's got him in. I mean, he's got some wild taste in clothes every Monday during NFL live. We have Ryan Clark do a fashion segment and Cam Newton is featured every single week forever. He's wearing and it's always something that I could never imagine. I'm not that cool. I'm not. Listen, that's Cam, though. That's the is, and this is what he wants. You guys talking about it. He's doing his job. Well, we had a chance to talk about you take Thomas. I really appreciate it. Good luck this week. Have a great trip to Philadelphia good looking through the entire weekend, the emotional experience it will be for you, and I really appreciate taking some time to join me today. Not percent. I'm thinking we'll be back in a moment with ESPN NFL researcher, Evan Kaplan, but I, I wanna tell you about vivid seats. You know me best for breaking news around the league. Speaking of I recently received a tip. Vivid seats is offering ESPN fans, ten percent off football tickets, but you have to act fast head to vivid seats dot com and enter promo code ESPN checkout to receive ten percent off your first order. Vivid seats is the official ticket partner of ESPN and with their one hundred percent buyer guarantee. There's no reason to Missy game this year. Don't wait. This offer ends soon. So head to vivid seats dot com. Get off the couch and get into the action. Your team needs. You cap hit. Art having you just heard from Panthers linebacker. Thomas Davis. They've a huge game this weekend against the Philadelphia Eagles. There are a lot of great matchups in week seven. What stands out about this weekend to you? There are adamant and the lies told us that eight of the fourteen games in week seven will be played between teams that are five hundred or better that's tied for the most NFL history. This late into the season. Wow. You got eight of the fourteen more than half of the games in week, seven between teams with a five hundred record a better and the I'm really focusing on five of those eight because those are the game five of those games between teams in the same conference mentioned, Thomas Davis, Panthers eagles one of them, titans chargers. Texans Jaguars Cowboys, Redskins Bengals chiefs. These are the games that two months from now we're gonna be talking about who won this game as tiebreaking scenarios. Well, so as you start to project and we're now in the middle of the season years, we started project towards the playoffs. These are games that when you're talking about wild card for the divisional. You're talking about the visual races who the team that wins game. They're going to have a big leg up as as we get towards the high unusual how that happens. There are some weeks in the NFL where some of the matchup lack some sizzle, right? And then you get a weekend like this one in week seven, where there is a ton of sizzle. There's a ton of storylines a ton of games to talk about, and that doesn't even those five that I mentioned that doesn't even include some of the AFC NFC matchups bears patriots, saints ravens that that are really good games. You bring up the saints ravens. So we get a top offense versus a top defense and the saints offense has been tremendous and the ravens defense has been commended, what do you make of this match? It really has and all the talk about how great the chiefs and the Rams offense they have, they, I'm not downplaying that at all, but the saints lead the NFL in scoring offense right now. And this will be the eighth time in the last fifteen seasons. We've got top scoring offense against top scoring defense week, five or later we actually saw it. Just a few weeks ago at the Jaguars and the chiefs. Now the offense has won six of the previous seven games. So as you're looking ahead to Saint ravens, the offense, at least historically in these examples has had the advantage. Obviously, we saw the chiefs beat the Jaguars through two fourteen that defense ad was number one score divas at the time. Obviously, we've seen since then, Jacksonville defense certainly struggling over the last few games, but the ravens with their performance against the titans of week. Six now have a whole different animal deal with drew Brees and it's going to be an historic day for drew. 'cause I could agree that he's gonna throw that one past one touchdown for five hundred. It could be historic in another way. Interesting. Note that that I've been talking about with some of the the crew on Sunday countdown. The ravens are the only one of the thirty two current NFL franchises that drew Brees has never beaten in his career so he could beat the rabies and throw five touchdown pass all in the my favorite game in week seven. I think it's ravens couldn't agree more. You know, it's funny. Every Sunday in the war room, Seth Markman. Who is the NFL coordinating producer or now vice president, right? Yes, absolute. We look at the games the matchups 'cause he assigns the reporter. He always sends it over to me. What do you think of these games? And when he showed me the schedule for this week, the first game that I looked at was the ravens Sanchez said that to me is the best game of the week. And even though I know we're gonna have reporters at Cowboys and Redskins and Bengals chiefs in answers eagles and all these other matchups the Rams or the last unbeaten team at six? No. What does this mean historically? So for the Rams it's been pretty good the this is the the previous two times they were the final unbeaten team in the NFL. They went on to reach the Super Bowl, two thousand one. They ended up losing to the patriots in the nineteen ninety nine season. They beat the titans, but and I think you were on this note a few weeks ago. The recent history of the final unbeaten t down the NFL is not great. No, the two thousand six colts the last time. The final. Unbeaten team in a season went on to win the Super Bowl and that that's about twelve seasons ago now at this point. So it's while it's a great start for the Rams. Historically, it is not meant an automatic Super Bowl. Nobody been very impressive so far they've been about as impressive as any team. Most impressive part to me is that is the last two weeks when they haven't been as dominant, I think is the word as they were in the first four, but they find a way to win. And that's what great teams do their resilient. They've really are a, let's go from one great team and one great situation to another Tom Brady on beatable. We saw what he did to Patrick Mahomes on Sunday night. Quarterbacks who are under the age of twenty five in the regular season are now owing twenty four and Foxborough against Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. Now, Tom Brady gets Mitchell Trubisky. What do we make of this matchup another variation on the age discrepancy. So fifteen years older, Tom Brady when he's at least fifteen years older than the opposing starting quarterback. Seven and own his career wins over guys like Mahomes, Jared, Goff Shawn, Watson, Marcus, mariota. We have another situation with this week trubisky's twenty four years old Brady forty one. So the the history of these young quarterbacks against Brady specifically is not been great. And the other thing that I'm looking at in this game, Matt Nagy his first game as the chiefs offense coordinator last season was against the patriots week. One forty two points. We saw what Andy Reid. Obviously the same school did to the patriots in week six on Sunday night. Forty points. Maybe another shootout there. I think they'll be some points Gordon Chicago. That should be an interesting game on Sunday between the bears and the patriots and the team for mentioned team. The talked about the chiefs, they now head back home for what turns out to be big game. Very interesting, two weeks and road. The chiefs are now on in primetime so everybody can see Patrick Mahomes in judge himself about how good he is or isn't. So what does it mean. Patrick Mahomes is now headed back home. So while we've all seen Patrick Mahomes at the the home fans in Kansas City haven't seen Patrick Mahomes a ton. This will only be their third home game this season. He leads the league with eighteen touchdown passes, but fifteen of those have come on the road. That's strangely enough already. The third most road touchdown passes in a single season chiefs history, but now chief still despite the loss against the patriots five and one, they head home three of their next four games will be at home, and then we're already starting to look ahead week, eleven chiefs Rams Mexico City. So the chiefs will be at home for for an extended stretch here for three of their next four of the next month before that huge matchup. So the the, the home, Kansas City fans will get to see plenty of Patrick Mahomes play, but they will not get to see him on November nineteenth, Monday, November nineteenth, Mexico City get treated the game of the season preps, right? The Rams and the chiefs Monday night football set your DVR your schedule. All your TV viewing schedule now, because that's going to be a great one. It really is. I mean, when you when you have a game like that and we'll see if the Rams are still undefeated at that point, but the the, the story lines, the offense is the young quarterbacks. He doesn't get much better than that, Evan. Thanks for your week, seven preview. We will see you again four week eighteen as a lot at them. So there's ESPN NFL researcher, Evan Kaplan special. Thanks to him and special. Thanks to our previous guests j. j. watt who is bidding to become the only player NFL history to win the defensive player of the year four times in his career and to Thomas Davis who will take on this week the Philadelphia Eagles one day after burying his father. Do you want to get next week for another addition of the Adam? Schefter podcast are scheduled guests for next week are now the acclaimed author, Mitch Albom, and the Pittsburgh Steelers running back James, Connor two hundred again next week, everybody. Thanks for listening this week.
OA311: Opioids Are A Nuisance!
"It sure is like oh twist like twist any great trial and i suggest suggested give him ten years in leavenworth seventy five and ten worldwide <music> this rush. The judge was like this might not by honor i don't you it meant to come out here. Cutting the my side is the blood slugging lawyer luke welcome to opening arguments a podcast that pairs inquisitive interviewer with the real life lawyer. This podcast is sponsored by the law offices of the andrew torres l._l._c. for entertainment purposes is not intended as legal advice does not form an attorney client relationship. Don't take legal advice from a podcast hello and welcome to opening arguments. This is this episode three hundred and eleven oh three one one is not something i really think four one her and all the things that end in eleven i think are are actual three one one is is that non emergency police. Oh maybe that's it yeah well. That's good for this. This isn't an non-emergency but still very important. I've taken <music>. I'm john this without over. There is andrew torres. How're you doing andrew. I am fantastic extra fantastic since we got to do a numerology edgy intro so fast yeah. I'm just i've slipped my opioids. You told me to do i've. That's so we're talking opioids today. Finally we're also going to you talk about the man act and epstein something we wanted to cover before but it got pushed off because there's too much important news but it's very worthwhile question to for andrew dancer and also like i said opioids that big ruling big settlement <hes> i actually i think it seems to me that it's actually big not like oh. That seems like a big number but it's you know four minutes worth of income the this one seemed actually big to me so we'll see if if andrew greece and then finally got a little follow up on <hes> people crunching being the numbers on what we should expect statistically from court decisions prem- court decisions so that was interesting <hes> we can talk a little bit about that well well. That's our agenda before we do that. Do you have any any announcements so just <hes> just just two things number one. We haven't done a real proper begging segment to in a while. Hopefully you know at this is <hes> beginning of september. We just released in the main feed. The entire a your two hour plus breakdown of alex jones deposition. That's <hes> you can expect stuff like that law movies every month <hes> if you're patron if if you're on time listener of the show you'll love the show and you are gainfully employed and can support it. <hes> you know look we have law students. We have single moms we have you know we have people can't afford to support the show and <hes> and we totally get that <hes> but but if if you can kill us a buck kept us a buck ask a patron they will tell oh you that <hes> that they do not regret it and <hes> it's what enables us to <hes> to keep the show going and bring you the kind of content we we bring you so if you've been thinking about it. I know it's a painted. Patriotic is totally little capitalized with like nine figure now like one hundred million dollars of venture venture capital. They're totally safe to give them your credit card <hes> and <hes> and head on over patriots r._e._o. N. dot com slash law sign line up help us out and you'll get lots and if you if you aren't aware i mean all you do is they. Give you a link with the <hes> with the r._s._s. Feed you plug that into your whatever podcast first thing you use and then you just get all the bonus stuff automatically so it's like you're subscribe to the full thing so don't let anyone think you're like oh. I don't want to go to a website and download something. No no you you get it all in the feed so it's super easy super convenient and give it a try. Try it out it. You get you get the ad free episodes of the show. Sometimes you get early. Sometimes you get extended episodes often. You get bonus episodes. It's great stuff. <hes> if you can't if you're a law student if you're a single mom if you you know <hes> the other thing you can do kinda fallen behind in this a little bit <hes> head on over to i tunes head on over to stitcher to any of the places where you can rate podcast cast. Give us five stars that that helps increase the visibility and gas show out there six if you did this this this is like uber and it's like airbnb right giving us. Four stars is like well <hes>. They're one step above hitler seriously it. It is if you think we're one step of hitler. Then you know keep that to yourself. We try to be two steps above hitler so give us five stars yeah. Yeah give us a five stars ars. Okay that's enough. That's enough on the begging but thomas i also wanted to talk about the <hes> september twelfth. Democratic debate the criteria criteria looking forward to it now. I wasn't there i was i i was there was going to be an eleventh candidate. I forget who who it is. <hes> i'm blanking on it but somebody was like right on the verge and there are thinking like all of the the poll will be released that will get them into the onto the stage and if they had eleven i cannot believe this but if they had eleven they were going to do two nights and do a six and five they wouldn't have just smashed in another podium or maybe just set up a little folding folding table to the side and malaria can be on this one which would have been way better and more inappropriate to to like kinda demeaning about it but like now i they really six and five or five. I'd like to have two nights each with five candidates on the stage. Get you in a little more in depth. I i feel like ten. It's just you know look. I isn't great but to fives is also awful because you got the the problem. Is you so you have to repeat territory so like y- you the moderators there's two possibilities either you ask them all the same questions. Which do you don't want because it's like if you're if if the public is gonna watch two debates and by the way if they had to one of them would have been on a friday night would have been thursday friday. No one would have watched the friday night one <hes> so so yeah. I mean as a disaster all around. I think <hes> it's way better to have one but if you have to you they they can't help but like react to each other so like then that kind of is unfair fair to the first night you know like they got to the second night gets to react and have different answers. I don't know either way you do it. It's going to be terrible and also i'm tired of not having having elizabeth warren interacting with you know biden or whatever like we need to get them all on one stage. I think it i agree with that but i would just do that by doing with the republicans did and have right. That's top five candidates. Go thursday night and have the j._v. table on friday night. We'll the chinese should be like wednesday at noon and like nobody even whatever friday night is pretty bad. I mean you know that's that's. That's not a great time for folks wanting to sit down and curl up tonight which is crazy no different than the average american because when i was like whoa whoa that sounds great i'll love to crack open. A bottle of wine have a date night with the wife and watch the debate. That sounds fantastic to me. I'm wick. I would be <hes> inching my way towards the two of you on that couch. That sounds like a lot of fun anytime. It's a good thing we don't live anywhere near each other because i'm sure my wife would be like hey wasn't this our date night and then andrew would be there in the middle. We'll be like you know this. This is spectacular. I'm evan good for you. Guys right one of your amazing dinners and it would be you can just move in. It'd be fine there all right yeah i. I look like i suspect as i think you and i feel similarly. <hes> i i really i liked the campaign that kirsten gillibrand randy. I thought she was good in both debates <hes> but she failed to break through and so she didn't qualify for the second and dropped out and that is the responsible responsible adult thing to do anybody that didn't qualify for the second debate who stays in is staying in on vanity greed daego hitting. I i don't get it wh- what do you think's going to happen like your gala yeah after after not being on the one stage that all the series there is candidates are on then. I'll really get my push afterward and again. This threshold is not a big threshold this one hundred thirty thousand a unique donors and two percent in four separate polls did look right. I i wouldn't get one hundred and thirty thousand in donor man but i got a couple of one hundred and thirty thousand patrons join them on the stage. That would be fantastic. Look right julio castro and andrew young. I was gonna say that yeah and and i'm glad to by the way that who in castro's by that. That's an example of somebody who really <hes> he. I think he's maybe only person who really gained like like took the opportunity in a debate to make the case and launch himself into into that next echelon that upper echelon of candidate i don't i don't know that he's going to win or anything but you know he went from zero to in this debate which is cool yeah. I think that's i think that's that's that's the way the process is supposed to work. So you know yeah personally. I'm disappointed to see <hes> jilib rango <hes> but like that's that's what you do at this point and you know the the idea of having a continuing winnowing process <hes> you know now if we if we get down to five or six by the next one that would be ideal great basilica relief for the people that actually have a chance the debate yeah yeah and look <hes> this is. I've been saying for a very long time. You know polls. Don't matter sadder. It's early <hes> september the year before the primaries that that's when polls start mattering. That's when things start being predictive now <hes> that does not mean there is tremendous room to move around but like <hes> you know. This was the time in two thousand fifteen when people started taking trump seriously. I mean nobody's ever taken trump's here. Do we take him literally but not right right. <hes> <hes> this this time in two thousand and three was when howard dean went from one percent to thirty five percent right. Um our count the in a mention that quite a bit <hes> so you know again. Dean didn't get the nomination. He collapsed right right before iowa but this is the time where are we. We start going from it. Being just name recognition and people are starting to kind of dial in and focus and and and the social science literature says that matter so you know i to me again probably gonna lose patrons over that right like it seems pretty the obvious to me that you know you have a you have four candidates who can who can realistically get the nomination at this point right you biden sanders sanders warren and kamala harris. I don't see a path for anyone else. You wanna put people to judge in there i i it looks like he's he's sort of peaked early and is fading but you know fine. If you squint <hes> i i think everybody else who's still on that stage. <hes> i either falls into the category of injury yang. Who's running on an issue you be. I which we will discuss on the show or is running for vice president and you can see see the appeal of right amy klobuchar cory booker beto rourke julio castro those are four very very replaceable and people to judge i would i would put in the vice presidential pool but again. I'm gonna lose listeners over that and and i wanna have pete on the show. We've we've tried to reach out after a couple of channels. He's done get yang like he's because he just does everything. I should have gone for that but well. Let's i'll reach out the yang to <hes> based. I know it's interesting because in podcasts smaller than ours so yeah okay yeah. I like i like we we talk about <hes> his version. I'd love to talk about his version of christianity and all that stuff. It's really interesting yeah. I you know it's interesting because at this time i do wish we could just hear from those for four candidates and also andrew. I appreciate we get to do a little little punditry here. This is fun. I don't normally do it but anyway. I also really want who in castro astro on the stage just for what he adds to the conversation you know and and i would put i would put booker actually a little bit in that category personally. <hes> i d- uh-huh whereas someone like beto i just i don't. I don't feel like he adds anything that i haven't heard somewhere or club charges says hey i'm a moderate the vote for me you know and so i kind of wish it was smaller but i also see the value that some of these candidates even though they don't likely have any chance. I like what they're adding to the conversation because i agree with yeah. Go ahead finish well. I was gonna say i suppose commonly harris would be the one like the one non white <hes> candidate of the four that you talked about who you know who are who are the top four but she also has some some stances that are have been in the past a little more conservative on on things like <hes> you know i i <hes> criminal justice and all that in a way that i think that who in castro and booker are nice <hes> counterweight to that i that i appreciate on the stage so anyway. That's what i'm looking forward to i. I i agree with that. I'm looking forward to it and then i assume you will do your usual fantastic job of covering the debate on <hes> on well yan dan jamie over there <hes> if anyone hasn't checked it out. I've been working with co host jamie lombardi recently. Who's a philosopher in <hes> has has a doctorate. Dr teaches philosophy has been a lot of fun. She's really great and <hes> she's been really looking forward to <hes> jumping on for a debate episode once once that comes up so she keeps telling every sound like what should we cover. She's like oh. There's the debate. I'm like it's in september like she's really <hes> chomping at the bit excellent excellent all right well that that aside it's it's time to get to the show but that was fun down down down aw down. Let's talk about this. Man act in why epstein was not charged under it this. I am correct in saying that this has been a little bit of conspiracy. Theory yet elated thing. Okay yup absolutely can really think ob gyn foil hat yeah well joe right into my brain yeah well. I it's all moot now because the indictment against epstein steen in the southern district of new york <hes> has been null processed right that is noel prosekey which is latin for. We're not doing anything with this. <hes> and that's because he's is dead. You know we we tend not to proceed to. You know criminal verdict against a dead people but i i have. I've been really wondering about that though because like how does. I don't know if you're gonna explain this or if i apologize if it's not what you wanna talk about it at all but like i have been wondering you you know if if i'm potentially liable to somebody let's say i've wronged them in some way and they could get a bunch of money from me potentially but then i kill l. Myself is my money like then. Save like it's in my family you know like is there a way for victims to still get restitution or once you once you once you off yourself then when you're just you're out. You're everything safe ono so civil lawsuits can proceed against the defendants are right so yeah. It's just the criminal proceedings so this is it's a really good station and it's much better right like because we saw for example most famous celebrity <hes> you know in history in recent history three in terms of legal proceedings right the o._j. Simpson trial of criminally yeah right <hes> criminally not guilty civilly definitely liable liable and <hes> and that's <hes> that will continue those cases those civil cases go continue against epstein so but yeah back back pre <music> the epsteins suicide which again i feel like we had a little bit of a bubble conspiracy bubble of you know. Was there a hit and was it inconsistent. I think think now like you know we've sort of come around to know. Just you know relatively old dude like hung himself in prison. We you and i certainly feel that that way and i think a lot of people listening might but i also think there's a gigantic number of people in america who just take it for granted that he was killed like it's. Let's see i wanna see the numbers. Actually i'd be curious if they've done a poll yeah me too. Yes send that if you've if you've got the numbers if your listeners but <hes> so this this question was isn't it suspicious that <hes> jeffrey epstein was not charged under the mann act <hes> and so <hes> in answering that i thought i would take a little bit of a trip down nostalgia lane and <hes> talk about what the man act is that sounds like a great a tuesday deep dive so the man act was originally called the white slave traffic act put a put a pin in that and in the nineteen ten anymore <hes> in its original form it made it a felony to engage in the interstate or foreign foreign commerce transport of quote any woman or girl for the purpose of prostitution or debauchery or for any other immoral purpose and <hes>. If you're good originalist you might be looking at that going. Okay i get i get prostitution. <hes> not one hundred percent certain on debauchery that that seems like that's a term that's kinda gone out of fashion <hes> but what does any other immoral purpose mean again remember. This thing is called the white slave traffic act right so you think it should be a criminal thing well to explain what any other immoral purposes we look to a case is called community versus united states nineteen seventeen case so it only took it took a year for the supreme court to rule so you know it only took about six years for prosecutors prosecutors to invoke the man act in this situation and you might be able to guess where i'm going. This is to marry guys his who lived in your neck of the woods. I'm sacramento califor- now rule. They decided they were going to travel <hes> road trip. <hes> <hes> it's nineteen sixteen so <hes> you know model t. with the top down or something <hes> they all people who traveled and road trips died back spend but that day died of dysentery. It's a reverse oregon trail. They were going from sacramento to reno <hes> with their girlfriends and <hes> so you know they they sounds doctorates to my nineteen ten years yeah and it also did to their wives who found found out about this road trip. I i'm just trying to envision the like old timey like bob and i are we're headed out to reno for for fantasy football draft or <hes> but <hes> yeah so wives found out and and told the police and <hes> he's guy i support arrested in reno and convicted under the act <hes> because they were transporting women or girls namely their girlfriends across state lines from california into nevada for any other immoral purpose at in this case the immoral moral purpose was <hes> to have <hes> you know consensual sexual relationship outside they're outside of their marriage and this case made it up to the supreme court because this was there was nothing else going on in the united states in nineteen seventeen. You know <hes> world war one the collapse of the czar <hes> but <hes> the the supreme court said affirmed the convictions they said any other immoral purpose included consensual extramarital affairs and remember. I told you to put a pin. In the the whole white slave traffic accident the supreme court said look that's not the immoral purpose that congress meant so this this actually becomes one one of the very first textualist decisions of the supreme court right like they're saying well cleveland's or any other immoral must mean any other immoral orl- let's not pretend that we know what the legislature which by the way is only seven years later right like it's not hard to ask them or yeah look at contemporary broad catchall language there doesn't that essentially give you licensed to legislate morality of any kind that you feel like i mean any any immoral purpose. Are they going to you know like <hes> <hes>. Try to try to gamble. Try to do just do anything that they feel. They're going to drink or or they're gonna do anything that somebody feels is immoral. Doesn't it kinda surprising i think and and and you're right so so let me read the language the supreme court uses and then i think you were implicit. Criticism is they're going to use this broad language but even then they don't really mean it right so here's here's the supreme court says it says where the language is playing at admits of no more than one meeting what no more than one meaning the duty of interpretation due to look look at what the congress thought does not arise and the rules which are to aid doubtful meanings need no discussion there is no ambiguity in the terms of this act it is specifically made eight an offence to knowingly transport in interstate commerce any woman or girl for the purpose of prostitution or debauchery or four quote any other immoral purpose <hes> or with the intent and purpose to induce any such woman to engage in the like mine and we're gonna go jay walk in vegas so i'm gonna be convicted of the man on act and and under the plain meaning of what the court says in-cabin eddie that would apply under reality reality if the if if the kennedy court and if we time travel back to nineteen seventeen you look at this decision you know all right. I'm going to test this law. I'm going the to transport a woman across state lines for the purpose of encouraging her to jaywalk. There is one hundred percent certainty that the supreme court. I would say well okay for any other. Immoral purpose is in a clause right. It's in a list of three things where the first two things are prostitution russian and debauchery right those referred to sexual conduct so it means any other immoral sexual purpose they didn't. That's why i'm i a._m. As certain as i am of anything on earth that that's how the supreme court would come out but notice right and this is why your criticism is dead on and this is reason number eleven seven thousand four hundred and six y. Tex dualism is is nonsense. <hes> notice that if the supreme court is to be believed right. I just read you the passage they they said nope we don't use any canons of statutory construction here because the meaning is plain from the language and your point supremely well taken. There is no such thing as a supreme court case in which the meaning of the statute is one hundred percent clear. I feel very comfortable. Sang that are are there things in which it's completely clear yeah it's completely clear when it says the speed limit is fifty five right but even then right i i how many like all of our listeners understand the like. You can go fifty seven when it says fifty five and i cannot think of right i cannot think of a single bright. Here's a bright line that we can enforce right <hes>. You must be eighteen years old to vote right now. Notice again <hes> that there are exceptions to that right like states have allowed seventeen year olds to vote in primaries if they're going to be eighteen at the time of the general but but assume we can still pick a number and figure out right. You're you are too. It's two days shy of your eighteenth birthday on <hes> <hes> election day twenty twenty year. Don't get to vote that is there's zero ambiguity ambiguously. That's correct that case doesn't get to the supreme court because there's zero ambiguity right right at cases one hundred percent shut that you know w- ah open and shut <hes> did this. Is this something that you learn really on day. One of law school which is <hes> the there there are no you can and divide and we've talked about this. We talked about this in the in the in the white house brief you can divide things into easy and hard cases or political in a political cases <hes> but by even if it's nine oh even if the court comes down <hes> in a way that that is decisive. There's no such thing as a as an easy case is like the you have to be eighteen to vote. You have to drive fifty five at the supreme court. All of these hit the supreme court because there's some ambiguity acuity because there's some tension between what the law says and what the law means and that's kind of why i wanted to have this <hes> off this discussion about the you know crazy <hes> interpretation of the man act in <hes> in nineteen seventeen. I can tell you that because because of this decision and you know wouldn't be an o._a. Segment if i didn't depress the hell out of people the man act has been shamefully lee used in our nation's history against <hes> what used to be called miscegenation <hes> african americans <hes> usually blackman transporting white women across state lines today <hes> the man act is codified eighteen u._s._c. twenty four twenty three a and and <hes> the women or girls bit and the <hes> immoral purpose bit has been <hes> brought into the twenty first century and it now says a person knowingly transports individual who has not attained the age of eighteen years in interstate or foreign commerce or in any commonwealth territory possession of the u._s. with intent that they engage in prostitution or in any sexual activity for which a person can be charged with a criminal offence shall be fine under this title and imprisoned not less than ten years or for life well that doesn't twenty four. It sounds good. Maybe stop human trafficking style and twenty four twenty one does not is is it repeats that language for any person right so i want to say the man act by its terms that the cam manetti like like you know carousing guys <hes> you know step out on their wives with girlfriends on a trip <hes> in a state in which adultery is illegal like new york for example <hes> the man act could technically still considering team right. No no. That's that's twenty. Four twenty. Three is entering our twenty eighty four twenty one is any individual okay yep so you could technically still prosecute someone <hes> if they <hes> take their girlfriend to new orc if it <hes> they engage in any sexual activity for which a person can be charged with a criminal offence and adultery is a criminal offence in the state of new york so oh so there's the man act and <hes> it is i i read nothing into as as we said this previously epstein was was charged with two counts he was charged with conspiracy and sex trafficking under eighteen u._s._c. fifteen ninety one <hes> those <hes> at the the specific indictment <hes> said with girls as young as fourteen that hits subsection b two which carries a mandatory minimum penalty of ten years so the crimes for which he was charged have the exact same statutory <hes> penalty as the man act <hes> <hes> the way in which we've gone through the federal sentencing guidelines adding on additional counts <hes> would not have added them consecutively typically <hes> onto epstein sentences <hes> and but but each individual right under the different theories <hes> but each individual act with with each individual girl <hes> could indeed be <hes> be added on consecutively so <hes> so there was no need to do this. They didn't lead to unlike the florida. The florida deal was clearly politically sweetheart. <hes> we know that we've talked about that at some length. <hes> that's not what happened <hes> with with the the failure to charge epstein under the mac and i did you know i'm not we have. We don't need the catchall schol man act to cover <hes> child trafficking or sex trafficking <hes> that is specifically codified at the sections that i talked about <hes> and you know it it i'm not i'm not a huge fan of the way the man act has been deployed in our nation's history for the reasons that we've talked about so <hes> <hes> so nothing nefarious little bit of a story a little bit of a dig at originalism and <hes> and i thought it was worth covering yeah nice deep dive that that was a that was interesting definitely some disturbing history there but i'm glad the <hes> the the man act is less disturbing now and might actually be useful for stopping some really bad people so that's good all right. Why don't we take a little break and then talk about the major opioid settlement opening arguments is brought to you by ziprecruiter cruder folks hiring is challenging but there's one place you can go where hiring is simple fast and smart a place where growing businesses connect to qualified candidates. It's that place is ziprecruiter. Dot com slash o._a. Ziprecruiter send your job to over one hundred of the web's leading job boards but they don't stop there with their powerful matching ching technology ziprecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invites them to apply to your job as applications come in ziprecruiter analyzes each one and spotlights the top candidates so you never miss a great match and ziprecruiter is so effective that four out of five of employers who post on owns a precursor get a quality candidate through the site within the first day and right now. Our listeners can try ziprecruiter for free at this exclusive web address. Go otas ziprecruiter dot com slash a that's zip recruiter dot com slash a one more time ziprecruiter dot com slash. Oh <unk> a ziprecruiter the smartest way to hire okay so give us the details. I saw the news alerts alerts on this and i knew you were going to talk about it. It was the andrew breakdown what happened here so this arises out of the oklahoma cla homo lawsuit that we discussed in episode two ninety two and <hes> that case has gone to verdict <hes> that was a bench trial so no jury <hes> judge verdict against johnson and johnson four five hundred seventy two million dollars in the immediate aftermath the the day after that verdict came out <hes> johnson and johnson stock went up so some questions back and forth of hey why's this johnson johnson and johnson does is this too little was it right and i want to disentangle all the parts of this lawsuit and explain what it means means going forward. The stories new stories that you're alluding to thomas <hes> are <hes> multiple reports that in light of this verdict <hes> purdue pharma which is responsible for oxycontin right which is the the first domino that started the chain the lead to the opioid crisis <hes> we've talked about them at at significant length in multiple episodes on the show they have offered to settle the the mall tied district litigation thousands of cases <hes> that are pending in ohio <hes> four ten to twelve million dollars <hes> excuse me for ten to twelve billion dollars <hes> and the sackler 's divestiture themselves elves of the ownership of purdue pharma the this has been described in various places as kind of bestest style settlement. The idea is that then purdue pharma would be restructured taken into bankruptcy and <hes> restructured as a trust trust to pay out <hes> amounts owed to victims of the opioid crisis. I'm going to explain why they would make that offer. So in light of this verdict <hes> in a minute. I want to say the the settlement also involves the sackler kicking in so purdue pharma value to ten billion <hes> the sackler would kick in three billion of their own money. <hes> the sackler is collectively are estimated to have total net worth of thirteen billion dollars so so a lot of money <hes> they still will have made you know inordinate gobs of money on wrecking <hes> rural america basically the the notion this this does not really follow the tobacco settlement <hes> as much as it seems seems to me to be rather similar to the model in asbestos litigation so <hes> at the time that specis litigation exploded the johns manville. Oh company was the worldwide leader in the manufacturer of festus. They were essentially <hes> you know amalgamated asbestos company inc right like if if it had been if they'd been a nineteen ten in company you know they would have been called best docs or whatever <hes> <hes> johns manville manufactured most of the festus that was in use around the world once we realized that his bestest was <hes> very very dangerous. It was clear johns manville was not going to continue as a company that that their liabilities would vastly exceed the company's assets and so <hes> the company was taken into chapter eleven bankruptcy restructured <hes> <hes> <hes> they created the johns manville trust and all of the proceeds of the johns manville corporation were then used to pay out out as best as claims so <hes> that model i think is kind of what <hes> purdue pharma is anticipating <hes> with this proposed settlement right that they would be turned into a trust to pay out sums in connection and with the <hes> the opioid crisis. Why would so that's your initial offer in settlement will wreck the company and will kick in three billion dollars. I think that that helps indicate the significance of this oklahoma verdict yeah so the idea that like this is just one state so if this could happen all over the country you know by the time it's all said and done. That's a lotta money so therefore this was a good deal to them. Well it's that and also <hes> this is the vindication of the public nuisance theory in oklahoma and so we we discussed that briefly in into ninety ninety two <hes> but this was not write a product defect there are there are lots of potential claims that one might make against purdue pharma right you might make strict products liability claim you sold a thing oxycontin that is <hes> as used unreasonably dangerous. That certainly seems true <hes> you purdue pharma engaged in deceptive acceptive marketing techniques that violate <hes> the uniform unfair marketing practices right right there lots of things have we sat here and brainstormed armed. We could probably come up with a dozen different torts <hes> that you could charge purdue pharma with <hes> but the problem with all of those torts is that they require customer identification right if i want to say hey <hes> and let's let's take this analogy elegy into <hes>. Let's say the power tools line right like <hes> i use a let's not say black say black and decker. This is a hypothetical. Please please. This is not meant to actually describe actual black and decker chainsaws which i'm sure perfect we go. We go dewalt. We'd go black and decker. We got all kinds of options. I use a black and decker chainsaw and i use it as intended it throws off the chain and you know cuts off my arm right and then i su- black and decker under products liability strict product liability and i said look you've made this unreasonably dangerous chainsaw and it had a defect <hes> you're strictly liable for the fact back that i've lost my arm and you know i i then prevail in that lawsuit but crucial to that is i can only recover against black conductor if i can prove that it's a black and decker chainsaw right. I couldn't recover against black and decker. If i'm using a dewalt chainsaw that would make no sense now. Let's put that in the opioid context if you take average person who is buying opioids off the street right some who are using fake prescriptions right may know <hes> who manufactured the particular drugs that they've taken <hes> but the but the vast majority are going to have problems identifying the manufacturer mrs mrs kay right. I've i've talked about this. In the past. There are lots of problems with us. When you have an industry in which you know you have a major player <hes> but you have other subsidiary players right and so you know if you have if you try and aggregate together quote the opioid crisis right then purdue pharma lawyers again they would be the incompetent if they didn't do this are going to say okay. You can't bring this as a class action because as we're only responsible for people who took purdue pharma products right if you didn't take oxycontin <hes> we're not paying for that because we make the other stuff the way around on product i._d. One of the ways around product i._d. Is through a public nuisance theory because what happens when you have a public nuisance is you are are required to clean up the mess. You caused right <hes> so for example public nuisance theory was used used to varying effectiveness <hes> to deal with <hes> lead paint contamination in inner city per predominantly predominantly in in poor inner city neighborhoods right and so the remedy that you got was okay get in and remediate take the paint off off the walls and put a new non lead-based paint and so you can use a market share allocation to determine how come clean it up right if sherwin williams sold fifty five percent of the lead paint that was used in downtown cleveland in one thousand nine hundred fifty then they you just have to pay fifty five percent of the cost of cleaning it up soda voids like you don't have to figure out like oh this specific house had this so you gotta go to them to get your money. It's just like aright. We figured out roughly the percentages and that'll somehow go into some sort of trust or whatever that will pay out all these things yep. That's that's exactly exactly right. I mean and because again you have a product problem right because we know you know and the problem with lead paint is that led flakes and children eat the lead paint and it causes brain damage right so we know that that happens but you know i'm living in a house that has nineteen fifties paint on the wall. That's been sold four times right and the original owners are along. How do i prove if that's sherwin williams paint or somebody else's paint right. I've any idea and so public nuisance enables avoid find out yes <hes> this has bouquet of shirley my brain definitely the back palate is bear. I you know who knows right so so <hes> so this case was a a a a a major case because a it it was only brought under the public nuisance theory and be a purdue pharma had settled out they set it up for two hundred eighty million dollars and and again can you might look at that and go that seems like they got off pretty cheap <hes> i i would defend that settlement i would defend the state of oklahoma settlement with purdue pharma because their lawyers had had to take into account the likelihood that the judge would reject the theory and they'd get nothing so you price in the risk of loss when you're settling so so <hes> so i i would you know general defend <hes> that settlement but <hes> but you were left with a pretty aggressive live theory in terms of recovery and not the primary defendant right so johnson and johnson's pretty much their entire defense in the trial was does okay a public nuisance cast to cover damage to property and <hes> you know creating the opioid crisis doesn't fit the definition of public nuisance under oklahoma law and be to the extent that it does. Hey i mean purdue pharma ally purdue. They were the ones that were really awful. <hes> and you you know we we were not so that's a that's a that's a legally defensible argument to make <hes> but they lost and the judge specifically and i you went through <hes> an all uploaded it's fifty oklahoma statute sections one and two <hes> the define nuisance as any act that endangers the comfort repose health or safety of others and some other stuff and a public nuisance effects at the same time an entire community in your neighborhood or any considerable number of persons <hes> although the extent of annoyance or damage afflicted upon the individuals may be unequal and so the very first thing that the court said was <hes> look we get the public nuisance typically means damage to real property but our law doesn't say that so that the opioid crisis very clearly endangers the the health or safety of others so it counts <hes> and by the way even if it requires damaged property <hes> there's ample evidence in the record that <hes> the opioid crisis has damaged an awful lot of property so <hes> so we had to damage property. Here's what the court says they say. The state has shown tone that the defendants have pervasively systematically and substantially used real and personal property private and public as well as the public roads buildings endings and the land of the state of oklahoma in creating the opioid crisis right so <hes> people who are strung out on opioids damage is public property. Johnson johnson used public like they're. They're salesmen used the roads rightly and this is this is i tell issue but yeah j. j. is going to appeal this verdict and <hes> i it would not surprise me to see an appellate grabbing exhaustively reviewed oklahoma law it would not surprise me to see an appellate court <hes> <hes> curtail that scope of the of the public nuisance sturt right and say hey public nuisance theory does not require real property to the extent that oklahoma law requires a nexus to real property. This is too tenuous right. It will be dicta <hes> but that would still affirm the the the trial verdict right they would still say that <hes> this is endangering the health or safety fifty of a large considerable number of persons which clearly right and and the court also rejected the marketing marketing right jay jay had argued alec like you know it's free speech. We you know described the and the court said none. No no look like commercial marketing reading activities do not get you a first amendment defense to <hes> you know to public nuisance which i think that will stand on appeal <hes> the reason that this is five hundred seventy two million dollars is because as we've described in public nuisance. You don't get damages right. You don't get the recompense for the lives that have been wrecked. You get right and again. Remember that usually we're talking about. You know damage to property you get go clean it up and so beginning on page thirty there sixty four paragraphs of what clean it up the legal term there being abatement what it means in this context right so all of the different programs that <hes> johnson and johnson is going to have to fund <hes> treatment treatment and <hes> and and other programs to try and do something to stem the tide of the opioid crisis in in oklahoma so looking at that that it is instantly obvious now why purdue pharma wants to try and settle all of the claims now in perpetuity <hes> <hes> against the company because <hes> purdue pharma is not going to survive <hes> as a company the next five years as a as a going showing concern outside of bankruptcy the fact that a court has recognized this theory <hes> means that there will be parallel litigation across the country sorry and and so we are going to see some kind of major <hes>. This is my prediction that we're going to see some kind you've of major settlement beginning at their present again. Remember like that was their initial offer was take the company into bankruptcy and take three billion dollars of our assets assets and will divest ourselves <hes> of any ownership and running the company and will operate it as a trust to <hes> to pay out <hes> for opioid victims and by the way will you know have made <hes> you know ten billion dollars which is a eleven figures. I mean it's a number. I can't even all the all all their wealth is from this. I mean is there. Any reasonable claim that like well this is from our other businesses or something you know who knows but <hes> i mean that i am sure that they have love other assets and other investments but but yes i mean you know it it it. It has come from <hes> from operating purdue pharma <hes> mm-hmm but you know we'll we'll we will see ultimately but you know there's not there's not a whole lot more all more room to maneuver at the top and i think <hes> and i think ultimately you know the <hes> <hes> the the the various various states are going to accept and structure some kind of settlement that says i all right like look we we would love for you to go to jail ale and <hes> you know be like <hes> the <hes> the duke brothers at the end of trading places and you know have to be like living on the street over the flaming hobo barrel <hes> that doesn't happen to white collar criminals in this country anymore <hes> so you know there <hes> if if if you want a sense because they've kill i would. It be safe to say that it's possible. They've killed more people than anyone ever like. In a criminal crimmins did certainly than any serial killer right like evidence and we've we've talked about this and we talked about the you know deliberate <hes> and deceptive marketing of oxycontin and and <hes> sending their sales rep to tell l. doctors no you cannot prescribe higher doses of of <hes>. I guess sure sorry. I'll correct myself short of maybe four more frequent doses. I'm sorry short of cigarette companies and like the gun lobby. That'd be the only other two that yeah. It looked vis has an and again. This is an area. I mean i said devastating monroe america like you know you've you've taken some. Some comedic swipes at royal america on the show <hes> we you know we are liberal. City dwellers <hes> the the opioid crisis in trump's america right in red counties in in rural areas is devastating on a level that that is is hard an pathetically to understand if you live in in in the you know the city on your is it divided that neatly because i feel like this affected just a lot of uh-huh like i know somebody who might died for this from yeah i get it. I don't mean to suggest it is confined to rural areas. I mean to say that it is is <hes> this is not is not an inner city problem right. This is yeah. This is my throughout the entire in the sky hi but is there any chance of getting after gun companies under the same logic public <unk> nuisance logic or is it already so <hes> there there would be except for the law that we talked about on the show them passed passed by why <hes> bernie sanders that <hes> grants the <hes> the gun industry immunity from from those great apple and that was number one on the n._r._a.'s legislative agenda that it it's got so <hes> so no i really puts a new light on that debate debate back in sixteen. I i'll admit i didn't know it was that big of difference between the two candidates but actually was us and it sounds like that law was not well understood by me at least but maybe lots of voters well and again and sham damn still losing more patrons for us. It is an illustration of the decorum and <hes> gentleness gentleness with which hillary clinton conducted the two thousand sixteen primaries and i know our bernie sanders supporting people who are still mad and angry about it being stolen stolen and donna brazile and the d._n._c. and all of that i am telling you i'm older than you. I've seen through this. This is yet another piece of evidence that <hes> the it was a very very mild <hes> particularly from from clinton to sanders <hes> that that by by the standards standards of democratic primary debates. It was very very mild. This was something where she absolutely could have waged unceasing campaign <hes> against bernie sanders and and burned him to the ground and she didn't do that and she didn't do that because of the principle that we've tried to talk about right which changes <hes> you know don't don't poison the well right like yeah i also think she felt like she had a handle on the on the nomination that's part of the absolut absolutely lilly not did you let us let me not ascribe overly benifit motives to hillary clinton because <hes> <hes> she went much worse against barack obama in two thousand eight yep so absolutely if she thought she was losing i think she would have poisoned always in the well and burned it to the ground. I'm not i don't mean to say that <hes> i just mean to say that factually she did not do that so <hes> it it while we are running out of nowhere i get over it. We're running out of time <hes> anything else we need to cover on the opioid rulings or are we looking for anything in the future we we are. We are looking for a settlement. Maybe even before this episode comes out and that's and that's why i had an announced it will take time to negotiate the details but <hes> but that's the the the model that it will follow and it will follow that because once a court has said this is a viable theory <hes> now and look like different states have different public nuisance laws right like the they're not uniform this sits on top of the common law definition of public nuisance <hes> but it we'll be tried in every state again. It will be tried because you know you're talking about <hes>. If you're a high end plaintiffs contingency firm right like that getting thirty three to forty percent of five hundred and seventy two million dollars is pretty <hes> pretty enticing so there is a a free market incentive antef for lots of lawyers to bring lots of lawsuits and that will happen so it you know whether whether this will ultimately be a a satisfactory conclusion. I suspect they won't be right like the damage is beyond the capacity of the individual companies to <hes> <hes> to repair but we are at least east moving towards <hes> doing something and that's better than doing nothing all right well just time for a quick third segment here. What did you want to say about that. I think saba might run some numbers for you on the supreme court decisions. I don't know if anybody else did what do <hes> so when we were talking about the the <hes> sheldon whitehouse brief in episode three nine <hes> we kicked around some numbers right that were <hes> not otherwise president and <hes> an are amazing amazing listeners with combinatorial backgrounds <hes> were able to run some of these the <hes> having four out of seventy seven cases kind of randomly only come up five <hes> five to four <hes> meets with that they did the math. It checks out right so <hes> exactly what you would expect in terms of. They're being a handful of five four decisions that breakdown on what looked like ideological lines for non ideological reasons <hes> the the project since we have so many fantastic math geeks who were also law geeks who listened to the show <hes> the project that i would i would love to see <hes> that i think ought to be doable that that you can see breakdowns of <hes> supreme court alignments at scotus blog. They and they go back a more than a decade. My thesis is this and it is the first half is pretty pretty. Well established <hes> in the <hes>. The law review literature <hes> that <hes> supreme court cases throughout our nation's history three of how to reverse normal distribution right that is <hes> the they have predominantly been nine oh decisions <hes> and then kind tailing off towards the five four right so that the the average sorry at the item using the math term incorrectly here but <hes> that from a <hes> from from a modal standpoint right the mode of supreme court decisions has been nine. Oh oh my thesis is that the distribution of supreme court decisions <hes> has can be mathematically shown <hes> <hes> to have changed <hes> demonstrably <hes> beginning in one thousand nine hundred eighty s and then beginning sharply with the roberts court in two thousand thousand seven <hes> and i would love to see our listeners kind of tackle that project and <hes> and show that <hes> that we have moved from <hes> a supreme in court that has more nine-oh opinions to a supreme court that the that is that is pushing decisions towards the <hes> the the five four yeah based. It's on this show for the lifetime of the show. I don't even remember i mean maybe we don't talk about them. Maybe their basic you know. Maybe they're obvious but i we don't often talk about nine. Oh decisions. I mean i can remember from seven to maybe but yeah i certainly i mean and there have been some that again the dom yeah this shows any any indication. There are a lot of not nine. Oh decisions late so <hes> aright math and loudly seems to be the case that if you were to select a random decision from all of the decisions that had happened odds. Were you'd get a nine. Oh is that what you're saying whereas now that is no longer. It's is not the case okay interesting. Be interesting see some <hes> some numbers to back that up thanks to all our listeners who are math geniuses and did the stuff that's super cool. <hes> we love it and you can find that in. I think the facebook group hop into the facebook group if you aren't there it's a fun place. <hes> definitely search it out on facebook. Okay it is time to thank our new patrons at patriotair dot com slash law aandahl start us off here with grant bradley darryl ross and j clawson listen and ravens saint ravens angst there we go. It's one worth and i think that's what it would be your turn and thank you to cheapskate. Clown horn patriot cody. P schaefer finished the back catalogue time to start paying for laud awful movies. Yes indeed it is. I hope you enjoy it and robs. Thank you all so much for sporting show over a patriot dot com slash law and now it's time to find out that i definitely got this question wrong. No no question about that here we go t three b o no associated with sperm has ever failed the bar talk to the hand close. That's one of my vision parameters. Trust me why you cried. Okay <hes> so this question russian was about a law student in an apartment landlord says a <hes> you know i want some legal advice. <hes> law student vary <hes> intelligently and ethically says dude. I can't help you that landlord. Flips out goes off the deep end starts harassing him <hes> call him at home every prevening coming into the apartment when he's not there without his consent <hes> when he's off at school <hes> removing the handles the bathroom authoring faucets the kitchen faucets <hes> the question is <hes> can he sue for trespass <hes> use zig when you wanted to zag <hes> and said said no because he has no standing to sue for trespass <hes> i will tell you you you've got the question wrong <hes> that's that's not correct <hes> the property <hes> win one of the most important concepts about real property <hes> is that <hes> when you own a a piece of real property that is a bundle of rights right so think about it like you know fifteen sticks that are kind of tied together and you can transfer out pop property in fee simple where you give the whole bundle of sticks away to somebody or you can transfer out just some of the sticks <hes> leasing facing a piece of real property to someone else is <hes> giving them one of the sticks so they don't own the property but they still have possessory rights writes <hes> because they've leased the property from you so <hes> you absolutely have standing to sue for trespass because you're renting a piece of property all right so my plan landed pick. The worst answer wasn't good one. That was not a great. Where would you have gone. He's we didn't do you. Were so disappointed. I'm just really really beaten down by this by this. This is a tough question because i really. I didn't know i would say my next best. Guess or my actual best guests. I i mean be as plausible seen d i don't i can't find a big especially since d. contained see sort of <hes> i i can't find find a big reason for saying you could get an injunction <unk> punitive damages or you can only get compensatory damages. I guess i guess it would have been being between between d. and b. And maybe maybe i would have thought okay. Trespass does actually require some damage to property so therefore be i i. I don't know it's hard yeah well it was i thought you might say since you were trying to do. The george costanza like do the opposite of your instinct well. That was is what i was trying to do right well the opposite of a right no you have no standing in my view is for everything to be right <hes> which is indeed the correct answer so the i'm the opposite of every bar exam student thomas smith at that is without a doubt yeah. That is the best episode ever. I total agreement <hes> <hes> so yeah no this. Is this a case where you have standing to sue <hes> and then when it when it the question is what can you get in damages are you. Yes hell yes apparently yeah. Hell yes <hes> ted. Damn dan hal ask kings. Yes <hes> you could you can get injunctive relief because <hes> it's it's going and <hes> you can get compensatory damages damages for <hes> the damage to the property <hes> and also <hes> the as the bar exam is saying i wouldn't have known this for emotional distress <hes> and for the yeah okay for the removal of the faucet handles that that makes sense. I would not have come up with that answer on. I gotta tell you how my my right right just did there would have been the thing i do every time which is between b._n._d. And go the wrong one so i need to. I need to do that and then go the other one that i but just because i still would have got it wrong but it would fit with the pattern yeah what what would have <hes> clued me in in terms of getting the question is once you've once you've decided that <hes> he does have <unk> standing and he's likely to prevail on the trespass claim which which is correct <hes> then the question is can he get injunctive and punitive unity's damages patio clearly supports that that must have gone overseas guy yeah. I don't know 'cause it's weird though because he didn't yeah okay what's the what's the question remember. There's some other tort. That's a lie that's like trespassed but involves damage. There's something liquoring look look. There are a bunch of torts right that like the i don't know if you're thinking of sort of the difference between assault and battery right where you know there. There was some other bar question we had where there's between th they went on the property but it half yeah i don't know and honestly it sucks because that thing that i'm not remembering had that not happened. I might have probably gotten this right but like there's something going on. There's too much doubt info my mind that i couldn't. They do look the bar does that right faye load up questions. <hes> i mean as you saw right. There was the entirety of the like the legal advice and you you know the calling him at home and the harassment that has nothing to do with the questions right like that that that's all just there to distract you. The fundamental question is <hes>. Do you have standing to sue somebody else for trespass when you're renting the place and they do no damage to your personal property and the answer to that is yes so all right. Sorry no no no. I was all me. I've done in close all right. I think we can officially say this is rock bottom. Maybe i i mean i can always get worse. I guess i can get another wrong but maybe the opioid episode. I'm glad yeah rock bottom. I quit cold turkey which is not as delicious wishes. It sounds and get back on the saddle and actually start getting some questions right because it's been embarrassing okay well. Let's hop in our time time machine and figure out who has not hit rock bottom like i have clearly and and who is our big winner of justice well thomas not to pour salt into the wound or anything but this winter is kaley on twitter who writes for this week's teeth. I'm going with d. solely because it's the most wrong thomas imus can possibly be. I'm sorry and i'm sure kalia sorry but <hes> that was that was dead on and pretty funny and <hes> everyone should give kalia follow that is <unk> at work of art x. d. q. u. I r. k. of a r._t. X. d. on twitter and congratulations kaley on being this week's t three b e winner. Thanks so much for listening thanks. I hope you're enjoying lot of movies. That was so much fun all that good stuff be a patron. It's worthwhile weil and we will see you on friday the law this has been in opening arguments with andrew thomas. If you love the show and want to support future episodes please visit our patriarch page patriot dot com slash off. If you can't support us financially initially it'd be a big help. If you could leave a five star review on itunes stitcher or whatever podcast delivery vehicle you news and be sure to tell all your friends about us for question bastion suggestions and complaints email us at open arguments at gmail.com show. Notes and links are on our website at w._w._w. Dot ahrq dot com be sure to like our page on facebook impose on twitter at open arcs until next <music> <music> podcast production of opening arguments media l._l._c. all rights reserved opening arguments is a copyrighted production of opening arguments media l._l._c. all rights reserved opening arguments with assistance of our editor brian vegan hagan are transcriptions leverage production assistant ashley smith with generous assistance of our volunteer unofficial researcher deborah smith smith special thanks to theresa gomez who are merchant our live shows and also heads up the wiki project follow them it at a wicky and a big. Thank you to our facebook group moderators. Emily waters cook eric brewer. Natalie natalie knew a brian and theresa check out the opening our community on facebook and finally thanks to thomas smith for creating the fabulous theme song which is used with permission.