4 Episode results for "Saint Laurent Balenciaga"
"I started our tell them. It's me god. Hey y'all this is lisa and his car and this is pop fashion. Lisa how are you. I'm i'm on the edge of my year car. I ready to fall off a cliff. Twenty twenty clip into an abyss. That's probably secretly a post office. That is a great mental image to start off the show. I appreciate that this is about to fall into a endless pit of male. Excellent corley wraps mail. Yeah that's my entry to. That's what i have to contribute today at. Look into the post office like every other day for the past week. Why did i want so badly to wrap the gifts that i ordered online and then mail them to my family. I see the post office is where i go to lose faith in humanity. I know at such a mailing quagmire right now to. It's harsh out there. They're talking like it's historic level problems with shipping right now so everybody just hang on. Santa will get there when he gets there right. It'll get there but like also if you're y'all bends the post office you're done but just i just want you all to like think of me. Finally when you mentally envision me waiting in line at the post office and the woman behind me. Just talk to me. No and tells me that. Her muscle relaxer made her constipated. This this really truly happens like two days before we're recording. And i was like fuck my line. Wow wow wow lisa why these people engaging in so many reindeer games on my car and gets on the phone today. She's like these reindeer games. Call it everything from now until the end of the season man. My buddy better stop at those reindeer games. You can send that right through january. That's a that's a it's seasonal because it's winter you know reindeer don't just disappear on december twenty six. I ended that. Yes right i mean. They aren't mythical they actually. They're real with that in mind. Should we i mean. Let's talk about some reindeer game right here. So we're going to start with the sing. y'all wanna talk about. Let's on our instagram here. We go anna winter at legit wrote my notes. Anna wintour t. s anna wintour s. She's been editor in chief of us. Vogue for the jillian years like honestly since nineteen eighty eight. That's older than a lot of you. And since two thousand fourteen she's been conde nast. Us artistic director and now she's got a new promotion. All of a sudden conde nast was named her. Its first ever global chief content officer which means that she will oversee all five vogue editions worldwide and all of conde nast brands so that includes chiku new yorker vanity fair bunches of others. It is all an effort to unify u s global segments of the publishing house of conde nast but like anna wintour has not had the easiest year. Cutting ask first of all. He's laying off people. So which is not a good look for the company right and then you're going to promote this woman who like basically runs the media world and whole bunch of black and brown folks. Staffers came out this summer and said that when toward didn't take them seriously over the years that she's been editor she brought to do better but the question in my mind is just. Do we need to just keep giving anna and tour promotions. She still going to be out. Yeah so she's going to oversee all twenty-five vocations worldwide including the us one that she's already editor us and olive conde nast brands like being the. Let's backup. I would like to call this segment the wind tour of my discontent. They give all day to say that to me. No i haven't. But when i start thinking about those reindeer games led me here. We go down this road She's gonna stay to editor vogue. She's doing all this other stuff and goodness knows when you have one job you want seventeen other jobs. One of my guys are hilarious when we put this up on instagram. Because i put up without terry and then you guys just ran with it. We have the best listeners. You guys are so funny so insightful. And so so laser sharp. Just cutting like y'all are are cruel and i like it our listeners. Lauren dropped in. The comments are instagram post. I like how you just dropped. That turned here. That was exactly the one. I thought you were gonna say. Yeah which first of all you know who i am because i just wanted to present without commentary and see what happened I am struggling with understanding. The torah really did have a place in fashion history. That was very important. Juxtaposed with it's time to go. I look back. And i wanted to kind of like look through some dates and i want to remind everybody that this magazine has been around since eighteen ninety two it had its first black person to photograph the vote cover and twenty eighteen twenty eighteen. That is shameful. She cannot say but she's vowing to do better and then nothing changes. I just like i. I can't i'm wrestling with the idea that like. She harnesses power when she wants to. And then this summer when she had an apology. Not i've just basically like not including black and brown people. There is no accountability there. She runs fashion in this country. Essentially she could do whatever she wanted. A lot of. This is about who she excluded up until very recently it's too. I really feel like it's time for a change. Yeah and and if you want it to exhibit the change that you are vowing to present wouldn't the noble thing be to say let's promote someone else to this role. Let's give someone else voice in this role that you're creating besides me anybody. Anna and here's think company is not doing well it you know. They're struggling subscribers. They've laid off people in several rounds this year and in earlier years. We've discussed it on this show. And i don't know if she is the exhibit of business success anymore volk has made some decisions recently about specifically what their covers about focusing on different body types people of color gender fluidity so they are kind of embracing this but it took people getting really angry to make that change and so instead of leading the way they were kind of forced into it which really bothers me. It wasn't until after people started protesting in the streets this summer. The anna torset. Anything like good for you lady but like you don't need that job as struggling with it the i am you you already run everything just do the gala at the matt do the thing the one thing that we care about every year. Just let somebody else take over the magazine. Okay okay justice suggestion more thoughts. But i think i can only wrap my head around that for tonight's action only get mad at so many things in one calendar day please no. I'm changing course on this entire episode. You have to do the fashion crime next. Fasching be read so this is true. Caring is being investigated for financial crimes. Those are my favorite crimes. At least you're gonna love this story. Oh man alpers racketeering his brady close okay so caring is a conglomerate that owns many important fashion labels including gucci saint laurent balenciaga alexander mcqueen etc. Luxury group is being investigated by financial prosecutors in france for quote aggravated laundering of tax evasion. Oh now as we go through this. You're going to have some questions. And i'm here to tell you right here right now. I don't have any answers. Okay i do not know what i'm telling. You is exactly what i know because it gets complicated into. Who's doing what and where they're doing it. Investigators are focusing on how a swiss logistic centre impacted the taxes at s. l. And balenciaga carrying said in a statement that quote refutes in the strongest possible terms all of the allegations tobacco up last year carrying agreed to pay one point two five billion euros as a tax settlement in italy related to the gucci label. I remember that yup in two thousand nineteen carrying agreed to transfer the majority of its logistic operations. That were then in switzerland to italy. The company was using switzerland as its international hub at that point and that became the center of tax evasion case so to back up a little bit more at the end of twenty seventeen. Italy conducted searches at gucci because they suspected that the label and its parent company were paying taxes in switzerland where taxes are lower on profits that were generated in italy. Got it what i think is happening. Is something similar is going on between switzerland and france about where they paid taxes and they're under investigation because of it it does not sound fun but they've already been through this similar type of investigation with switzerland and italy because of gucci. Yes right. And i read that the one point two five billion euros was like the most anyone has ever paid because of this kind of charge investigation young. Yeah that's it. They're looking at financial crimes. It is twenty twenty. Y'all you to be better at this. You're launder the shit out of some money to evade your taxes. Why are you trying to do it. Through one of the biggest luxury conglomerates memorial. What you need is a laundromat or a bo. Dagga do at the american way. Maybe a barbershop. Because there's when. I got my eye on. I think it's a front but don't do it through your y. Alum balenciaga gucci. Please like. I hope you have a google alert set for this. The thing that surprised me most is how little news there was on this. I did some digging and it was really hard to find what was going on right now. Shit i know right if you know anything. I don't think y'all do but if you do your house. People listen to this show who work at those fashion houses. You know who you are. you know. We don't call you out by name but we know who you are. Yeah we have a listener letter later from. Gd by select blue. And i ain't even play in so stay tuned. this is just. Don't fast forward to you. Gotta listen to the whole thing on one x speed. Don't speed it up. I'm gonna take you to another fashion crime. This one does not deserve the song and not playing with this one he is. It is rough but look. Let me tell you about an old man. Who's in a lot of trouble canadian. Fashion mogul peter. Nygaard was arrested on december fourteenth for allegedly using his company. It's money and its employees to prey on girls and young women. If you're like i've heard this. Who is this guy. Here are the details. You need to know. Peter nygaard founded women's apparel company nygaard international way back in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven since then it has expanded from its home in candidate to worldwide with collections including aaliyah sanjay bianca nygaard and three brands exclusively available at dillard's in the us until recently put a pin in that one also you can find nygaard brands at walmart. Costco and balch among some other spots in north america. So this is probably a brand that you've run up against before but maybe really haven't noticed. Meanwhile nygaard the man has been involved in numerous lawsuits over the years. Some of them relating to this elaborate state he built in. The bahamas called nygaard k. Because once you get rich enough you just like architect entire island. What what's it's apparently modeled after like mayan ruins or something. What is happening right now in this this back and forth dobacco for like a decade with his next door neighbor on the next island about who owns the rights to whatever land under the sea. That nygaard was trying to dredge to make whatever cavern he wants. I don't know so this seventy nine year old guy with an estate called nygaard was charged with racketeering conspiracy. Oh ding ding ding. That's where bacterium racketeering conspiracy conspiracy to commit sex trafficking sex trafficking and charges relating to trafficking minors and the actions leading to those charges span from nineteen ninety-five to this year. Maggard denies the allegations but canadian authorities are trying to prevent him from getting released on bail saying that his personal wealth of seven hundred million dollars makes him a prime flightless. He was an island. Yes that's true. He doesn't own island. In the bahamas. Allegedly in june nygaard was considering the logistics of traveling to somewhere like bermuda or malta under an alias. So they have some receipts from that Contemplation and so the charges that are against nygaard are from the us attorney's office the fbi and the nypd. They worked with canadian authorities to arrest him. A couple of things that happened before this arrest a class action lawsuit was filed against him in february by ten unnamed female plaintiffs for doing some of the stuff that i mentioned about the same month the fed rated the companies manhattan offices to investigate the contents of that lawsuit and nygaard stepped down as chair of the company at that time. Dillard's dropped nygaard international brands completely. Instead we ain't going to sell the ship anymore good And also in march twenty twenty migrant international filed for bankruptcy. And you might be thinking. That's interesting timing. What's up with that well. Filing for bankruptcy blocks further lawsuits and prevents creditors from season company. Assets yeah this guy is such a snake on so many levels like i didn't think dudes could get sneakier and then this one showed up. Yeah so just to let you guys know to the what is being accused of right. Now is pretty horrific. We didn't wanna go too far into it on the show because it's just that much of a nightmare it's really bad like look when i ain't gonna tell you things that are that he's being accused back. I'm just. I hope it goes down. I really do. Yeah yeah well when you google him. You know 'cause. I know. I saw this headline. I don't know if i had google to be honest with the. Oh it's just it's so triggering do not google hem but when i googled him to learn more about the history of him building this company. None of that stuff came up. All that came up was like twenty years of accusations against this guy. Every news article about this guy has been bat. Either it's been about this drama with this island but or it's been like Accusations of horrible thanks. He's done to women. And i just this guy needs to go down. Do not do not let this guy out on bail so look because this is like out of the realm of fashion crimes will usually talk about. I'm just gonna let you know if you all need help or need to see something. Say something regarding potential trafficking issues you can go to human trafficking hotline dot org or call one eight three seven three seven eight eight. That is the national hotline for human trafficking issues. She's that's rough friend. Y'all y'all the mood of this show is going to come up from here like we just hit that upsetting dramatic point but like it's going to get a little more fun. Yeah i really struggled if you should even address it on the show because it is so horrific but this is part of the fashion world to that we cannot ignore it exists. We can't ignore that it's happened and it still happening. Yeah drastically changing tones. Just a whole one eighty on the tone here really drastically changing tones. Let's get out of this. Hugo boss is collaborating with the nba. It's i. this is the year of the collaboration. I have a theory on how this is gonna work. Oh do tell what. I want you while i have a guess. Tell me just came to it. My guess would be that hugo boss is gonna do like custom suits for players for when they his whenever players. Come to the stadium or to the game. they're dressed. Lee said that such an intelligent gas. But that's not it okay. I was not close and the reason why i wanted. No no the reason why i wanted to do. A sports ball. Story is because y. They're getting a two why they're doing this collaboration and it's because they want to change the perception that there are men's suit brandt so your guess i think prior to this year would have been right on demand because it makes more sense but pat's democ happened and literally. No one wants to wear pants. Aim for and hugo boss. I think is seeing that they need to change and this is a big splash. They can do it. Boss decided to team with the nba. On to co branded capsule collections. The first launch in february it will feature shorts sweatpants. T shirts and hoodies would as lisa. They will have the nba logo and will feature nine teams including the new york. Knicks brooklyn nets l. A. lakers clippers miami heat chicago bulls golden state warriors houston rockets and toronto raptors. Leaving out some good teams there. But okay i high profile. Nba sports talent will be featured in the upcoming marketing campaign. We do not know who that person is do. They know who that person is. Who knows they're not committing right now. One of hugo bosses execs came out with a statement about the collaboration and said quote emphasizes our ambition to continuously expand the share of casual wear and our collections. In the years to come the collection will be at boss stores and online at bloomingdale's and nordstrom and the second collection is going to drop in october so this is sounds like the beginning of a whole new era. And is this about survival. What do you think that was the stiffest executive commentary. I've ever heard in my life. It's like that guy was like i have seen a sport would like to be there like look legit legit. This is about survival. And i think it's i'm gonna call dumb luck because it has strategic but it is a very lucky that the nba wanted to collaborate with hugo boss. Right and so. I think there's plenty of room this kind of stuff on the market. I just think it's It's it's going to be a little bit of a brand switch up for them if they wanted to make a splash and letting people know that they're kind of mixing it up. It's a good place to start really It's not like they were like we're gonna do leggings now know they're going to the nba refresh those nba. Players are going to look good. they are. It's probably going to be a great collection real hand. Handsome man's some handsome close. Who a mayan. Sign me up for some man. I've got the vapors somebody's still like put us to bed untold new year's eve goodnight girls. Okay that is smart. I'm excited to see what that looks like. I'm also excited to see what talent they cook up to like anybody who knows about the basketball who wants to volunteer. All these guys from the seventy sixers or like you don't want us. We could be there but you didn't ask for us. Okay well look. We're just gonna stay on the nba segments. This is the whole middle section of the show is about the nba in a roundabout way. Just trust me. So sh short months ago. It may have actually been weeks. We were talking about how adidas might wanna reebok. The sneaker company has on other sneaker company since two thousand six but despite its efforts to like pump up the brand reebok their sales have just always been lagging behind adidas and the pandemic did not help so this month. We know for sure that adidas is considering selling off reebok. It is part of the five year strategy for adidas which outlines a few options with either reebok staying or going and on march tenth it will announce whether or not it is going to sell reebok which let me tell. You is twenty twenty or trying to get through this week. We cannot even think about march so like in you send us a calendar invite or else we ain't gonna be there now. You're going to need to remind me that you're gonna make an announcement in march but can we pause for a second. Because i love how they're treating this like a game show like we're gonna now we may sell. We may not like. Is it the masked singer what are they doing it as a big reveal. It's hilarious like they're treating it like a game show this is. Let's make a deal but there's only one suitcase and they open it. They say this is the deal. Good night they're like we think that reebok is trash and we want somebody else to take it right. That's literally at reebok has done a lot. In the last few years to attract women to the brands and people to any people to the brand. They added a maternity line. They added sizes one through three x but adidas just isn't happy with sales and how it's bounced back this year. So here's where shack comes in shaquille o'neal one of the five best pro basketball players of all time. Do not argue with me. You can put them anywhere on the order. But he's on that list and in of all people get the hat tip on this one for putting these puzzle pieces together last summer in the sunny and bright days. Twenty nineteen shaquille. O'neil said out loud that he would like to purchase reebok. He is involved with authentic brands group. Which owns a lot of prominent brands. Shack has been tied to reebok for a long time since like I think nine hundred ninety two you might remember his famous shack attack shoe at the time last year when he said this is what we're news quoted him as saying that adidas has deluded the brand so much to where it's almost gone if they don't wanna let me have it. I want to bring it back to basketball and to fitness. So bring these two news items together with me did adidas in confirming that it is considering selling reebok effectively throw a giant bat signal into the sky for shocked to swoop in with a bg and buy it. It is in my opinion. Yes so authentic brands group owned a lot of different brands. Shack is part of that group and his own brand and he has money invested into it too. I think he wants this brand. And i say give it to the man if he could do something great with it because you know what shack has passion. Do you know what adidas does not have passion for reebok so give it to the man who loves it and let him nourish it. I have a picture in my head of shack just holding a little baby shoe just a little bit reebok. Actually no no. It's shack holding a regular size. Reebok shoe but in shacks hand. It looks like a baby show. Let's let's check. How tall shack is. I'm gonna guess. I think he's six seven foot one. No he isn't live alive. Oh my gosh. His wife is five six. Oh my gosh. i've always had a soft spot for shack. These he makes me laugh okay. Shack has been doing very smart things lately in terms of business Do you know about his office. Furniture i do. He has a line staples no his line of office. Furniture is at office depot officemax that like strategy place at and it is so smart because it is office furniture. It is office executive style office chairs made for people with large frames yet. So think a seven foot one man who could like you with his thumb. The idea that shack said everyone's at home. Let's make office chairs for everyone. Who's at home. And i'm talking. Everyone like each genius. And it's long overdue. And i think he has a mindset of inclusion because he knows how it feels to be the tallest person in the room. I was really prepared. I heard about his office furniture. I really prepared to laugh at it. Because i thought it was so silly and so funny and then i saw a picture of it and i thought oh my gosh dot chair looks so comfortable. He's a business person. He understands what he's doing. yeah. I wanted to laugh. I got this e mail in my inbox about these chairs. i was like. This is the dumbest thing i've ever heard of and then i looked at them. I was like. This is the smartest thing i've ever seen in my life shack. Is you see a picture. And you're like yes. mix them. yeah i get it. Yeah so look. Let me tell you this. We know how the story ends on march town. They're going to open the briefcase on adidas. Let's make a deal and it's to just going to be a picture shaq's head on the inside or or shit that ain't even at you know what show you know. Contest is a fucking bachelor. Shack is going to be like adidas. Do you take this. Rose and adidas is like yes in exchange. Please take all of these sneakers and that's how it's going to go. I think you're so right you. You are an oracle lisa. Do my research sometimes car and hands me the research on a silver platter and says here's your research and i say thank you one last thing for today. Shut it down. Pink is being shut down and sold when we talk about paik. We're not talking about the vicki. Hush line pink. The for not about that. We're talking about formerly known as thomas. Pink the dress shirt maker very stylish that pink. It was a label created by thomas. Pink nineteen eighty-four. The company is known for bright button down shirts ties and men's accessories it was acquired by lvmh and nineteen ninety nine. I did not realize they had it for that long. As being wound down and sold off so stores have been closed during lockdown this year because the pants stomach but they will not reopen. The website is down. It is done. Lvmh talking to potential bidders and the sales happening out of paris. Even though lvmh isn't saying that sale is happening. The label went through a relaunch two years ago when john. Rae was chosen as a company's designer. The company stopped calling at thomas. Pink and rebranded call a pain and as it went through this relaunch. They started doing some really interesting things including doing very basic but well-designed shirts for a round one hundred and seventy five dollars. Wow which isn't cheap. But it's not outrageous when it comes to luxury brand. There are also starting to get into more sustainability like a sustainability mindset that got rid of plastic wrapping clips pens got rid of cardboard stuffing. There are really thinking forward. Yeah but what happened was just couldn't sustain the business through the pandemic like everybody stopped wearing clothes like work attire lows. They stopped wearing clothes completely. They stopped close really an online sales. Were enough to offset the missing out on that foot traffic and really office where sales so. I really enjoyed this brand. I've sad to see it. Go especially because i think they would have been on a different trajectory if things went down differently this year but they just didn't so this is certainly An example of the collateral damage of the pandemic and its economic. Yeah totally. It's such a shame. Can you imagine just having worked on that twenty eighteen rebrand and putting just lying your sweat and tears into that project and then have it last two years and then be told this and i know especially because i liked the direction it was heading. It was fresh and interesting. Yeah and because of the way that the stores are closed on the website is down. I know l. The is to sell the brand. But like i have in the back of my head like are all. These shirts gonna wind up in tj maxx somewhere. Someday but i don't know if this is the the end and for paying. I don't know too. I'm not trying to be a smart ass. Honestly something like an authentic brands group may buy them up because they bought brooks brothers right and you know who likes nice things shack. Thanks give the ban some nice things shack shack. Do you know there are opportunities out there for businessman. Here is one. I don't know if it's time to get into this particular line of this. But i don't know i mean there could be more. Nba collaborations with menswear brands. Ninety f- right. I'm so glad that most of this episode has been about basketball. I really really. Yeah a sport that. I watch zero percent of the time but also claim to be an expert. Like yeah basketball. I know all about it look. That's the fashion news. It is time for a listener letters. Or as i want to call it this week listener letter because we only got time for one and it's it is from the spy. I mean holy shit. Y'all get ready. This is juicy so one or two weeks ago i dunno. Time is a flat circle. We talked about H m in germany being really under fire for surveilling its employees and violating gdp are which. I can't remember what it stands for right now but internet stuff back a couple of episodes. You'll catch up. It's fine the spy who is a long-time listener wants to be anonymous. Wrote in and said just listening to this week's pod and was interested in the gdp are and employ monitoring. So i have a bit of an interesting professional background. I worked in corporate ethics and compliance. Then a national intelligence and now work for german company that makes workforce management software for contact centers. Hold onto your wigs. When i say our listeners know shit they know show so before. I go through The spies points. I googled it quick. Gdp are stands for general data protection regulation and in applies to the entire e. You it was It was made official in twenty eighteen so with that in mind they say here's some thoughts. I was on a team that rolled out. Gdp are training to major international companies. Think hundreds of thousands of people after that law was passed. What h. I'm did was such a blatant violation of the law. It is baffling as a major corporation dabba compliance department. What is more is that it was done in germany. The country has probably the strictest slash most advanced data privacy protections in the world. total dumb. Dumbs let me now geek. Out on some compliance regarding monitoring employees actions at work. Here's the thing. Many times that is for information security reasons to keep employees from accessing dumps. It on the internet. Yeah yeah also. It's a question of the appropriate use of company equipment. Your company email address bueller phone slack account etc all belong to the company. You shocked and i mean fall off your chair. How many companies. I worked with were. They were constantly. People for watching porn at work Dan yeah people are human and money. Do dumb shit. What's also consider all the snakes who are looking to steal intellectual property digitally harass colleagues mishandle customer data et cetera. These are all risks to accompany and one violation could mean millions of dollars in lawsuits and bad press. It is the unfortunate reality that companies deal with and the internet is one big paper trail now. Let's chat about employee productivity monitoring given the line of work. I am currently in real time. Adherence or monitoring people's adherence to their schedule is a huge deal. Think the contact center industry and a location that is fielding support calls chats emails tweets etc customers customer support immediately. We now all have the patience of a crying baby. Contact center employee. Productivity is closely monitored because it drastically affects staffing requirements contact centers scheduled people sometimes in fifteen minute increments and there is a significant drop in service if even one person slacks off. Thank you fancy algorithms. This is now an even bigger need because due to covid. Contact centers have moved to remote work. One manager may oversee one hundred plus people and they have no way to oversee people otherwise last when tempted to do something stupid online. I just remember when i worked as a spy. If you don't wanna get caught stay the fuck away from technology. I'm bricks can get the job done shit. That was a novel. I have a lovely holidays. These anonymous the spy. Oh my gosh. What an email i thank you for writing end because this does shed some light on things. It's it's both super informative and the kind of movie that and i gravitate towards something we want. We wanna information technology thriller. It is inciteful to help me understand what is going on in this segment of the industry. I had no idea. Yeah especially knowing that this took took place at a a customer service centre. It all makes a little bit more sense to know how closely they try to optimize those places of work and how they be trying to use this information to be able to do that. Granted while h did is still fucked up. Oh oh a complete violation complete violation and not a good idea. So that's a lot of intel and still fucked up some shed but at least we have some insight as to how that could happen. Exactly amazing letter amazing. Thank you so much lease one good thing this week. Well i'm gonna tell you about a little that i've been enjoying and it's You may remember a long time ago. I recommended a podcast about cleaning and car and was like why. Would i want to listen to something about that. Well now i'm going to tell you about an app about cleaning and this is an app called sweetie and it's i think it's designed for someone. Yes weepy but the door will Like sweeping the floor but with a y on the end casino. It's it's an app it's cute. I think it's made for the person who starts one project and all of a sudden has started five projects around your house and has made no progress on any of them if you start by sweeping the floors but then you gotta take this curtain downs. I gotta wash his. And all of i dusted off the ceiling fans in a while and then suddenly you're sock jurist spilled out all over the living room floor and if this sounds like you you need this app. What's weepy does is. It takes you through every room of your house when you set it up and it. Has you input all the different cleaning tasks that you would do. And how often usually do them so for example. If you change your bed sheets every week you can put in the last time that you change the sheets and it will tell you when it's time to change the sheets that's smart. I use the free version and what it doesn't do is show you a list for the day of the of the top priority things but what you can do in the free version is go into it and see which rooms are in pretty good shape. Which rooms could use a little work. and which are like. Probably dag nasty and you should get into them and clean them so I will show car and what it looks like with my rooms and it just shows like i put them all in like bathroom. Whatever and it gives you really simple. Green yellow red indicators of which rooms need less work which need more and it's it's really helpful for just choosing. What's one thing you can do today. What maybe was two things you can tackle today instead of getting overwhelmed by everything and so by constantly giving a little bit of attention to things. You're keeping general. I have washed dishes on here every single day so that i can check it off every single day great. This sounds like an amazing tool like really smart idea. It is really great. It encourages you to start a streak and see how many days in a row you can accomplish something. That's on your list of but it also gives you a wild card so every ten days or so. It gives you like a freebie day if you need a day off and it's just really simple. It doesn't try to do too much and if you're someone who just gets overwhelmed by the thought of cleaning by the amount of cleaning you feel like you need to do and if you probably need a reminder that things look better than you think they look This app will give you indicators of what actually needs attention so that you can sort of compartmentalize your anxiety about an era desire to do it. All i say i love the idea of checking it off to you. It's like it's almost like a game indication. That's very cute actually. Yeah yeah so. I like to see how many really quick tasks i can do a day. That really make a difference if it's dusting my office area or Just you know like making sure that. I swept bathroom floor like that sort of thing. It makes me feel like. I accomplished something and i really didn't do that much. But like just to have that task marked off these a little better awesome awesome good app yet so for and whatever app store i use it on. Ios it's called sweetie. it's very cute. Cartoon was your manga thing. My one good thing this week as dionne warwick twitter feed girl. Works coming to get you. Tell us about it first of all. She's a legend. She just turned eighty and she's fire on twitter and this is not a of listeners. They know exactly what i'm talking about. Because they've been following her as intensely as i have. She's been a frequent delight on twitter most famous late in the past few weeks. She's had an interaction with chance. The rapper where she tweeted. And i'm gonna give you some tweets because it was so good chance the rapper. If you are very obviously a rapper why did you put it in your stage name. I cannot stop thinking about this. And he responded. I will be whatever you wanna call me miss warwick. God bless you. She then tweeted to the weekend and said the weekends next why. It's not a spell correctly later on. She said if you have the name of common for you need answers today. I bet what came out of this is right now. It looks like miss warwick chance. The rapper and the weekend or all teaming up to do a single for charity had nothing's impossible that they're going to produce a song together. What a great way to end the year She's totally being herself. And she reminds you of somebody in your family like everybody has a relative just calls it as they see it they just say what they think. Karna just amazing i have more news for you regarding the dion. Were twitter. show oh please. Snl did this this weekend this past weekend. So watch it her. That happened did not see it. Please for me. I have also heard about it but it was a segment. It was a sketch called dionne. Warwick talk show where she apparently tells it like it is and look. Let me. Just go back for a tying second. If you are a child or someone who wasn't allowed to listen to music dionne warwick sang walk on by. I say a little prayer And shit i need a third example on this list might have one. Oh i did tell you. This is what makes me laugh her even more she did. That's what friends are for. Yup she did it with elton john gladys knight and stevie wonder and the eighties to raise money for aids research amazing. She's just an amazing person. I love this part of her life. It's bringing me such joy to just rebound she's thinking i love this and i love that. She's using her sick burns against men in the music industry to like end up collaborating with them for good. If you have a favorite celebrity twitter feed you should send it to us because we're always into that always it's so fun it brings us joy. Nothing has brought me quite as much as the farm. That has the ducks during rush hour. That karn found but all know sabrina. You need to stop with those reindeer games over here. I hear that goddamn jingle bell and your neck. She's trying to bring you joy lisa. She needs to not show up in my recording. My open air recording booth. I would like you to know. Our intern is crawling all over. The podcast equipment. Our intern wants some attention. You for that the end of our show. I'm lisa i'm carin and this is pop fashion this week. If you want to get in touch or listen to old episodes good pop fashioned. Podcasts dot com. You can also follow us on instagram. At pop fashion podcast. And we'll talk to you next time and remember. What are we remembering. Certain shack attack shag attack. I love jackson.
Unraveling Kerings Investment in Vestiaire Collective
"Hi this is imron ahmed founder. And ceo of the business of fashion. Welcome to the podcast. It's friday march fifth for some time now big luxury brands including chanel. Gucci and louis vuitton have been reticent about the luxury resale sector steering clear of the growing market for secondhand goods but in recent months the cold relationship has begun to thaw somewhat as more fashion brands begin to experiment with resale and strike partnerships with key resell players like the real real. Invest your collective. But this week things in the luxury resale sector took a really big step forward. Good morning days. French take paris based luxury. Resale startup. best year collective announced that had raised a new one hundred and seventy eight million euro financing round led by tiger global and carrying one of the largest luxury groups in the industry and owners of saint laurent. Balenciaga alexander mcqueen among others. Do kidding you know carrying new stake. Ultimately amounts to only a five percent stake invest your collective as our paris based correspondent robert williams reported in his professional analysis on the transaction. It is the strongest signal yet that the luxury sector is finally realising it has little choice but to engage with hand marketplaces. that are selling their goods. I spoke to vest their collective ceo. Max bittner to get his take on what has changed over the last year. That has motivated luxury. Industry leaders like caring finally dip their toes into the fast-growing resell market carrying the old industry has made a dramatic shift over the last six to twelve months in much more open towards second homes. I think it's very important to clarify that. I think if. I look at the last two years since i've joined the conversation we were having two years ago. Have nothing to do with the conversations we had even last week before the announcement of the deal and the investment of caring noticing that this is not a short term trend. Is this something consumers are looking for this. As something especially on consumers are expecting from the brands they won't to endorse so so i think both us and the brands are realizing consumers. Expect this in some sort of way and if you think about why that has happened is obviously consumers are much more focused on sustainability but i think the luxury players have just realized that we're not really a competitor. We're not really trying to take market share from them but exactly the opposite. We're actually paying marsh to luxury by having these wonderful products for sale at a real value after six twelve months or five six seven ten years. Yeah again many products talking about are expensive products in the primary market. You have to think about what these products have a residual value after six twelve eighteen months or two three four years. It's pretty striking. i mean. It's very predictable. Always joke to people. Why why does it. Bmw cost double. The price didn't Apart from the fact that it's a german. Congress is the french car which is of course very fun for me as a german in paris. The reason behind that is the resell value. Bmw has an extremely predictable result. Much more than usual has and i think that's what we do. We pay mileage. By showing that these brands have incredible residual value their assets. They're not consumables. And what we're doing and why we think what we do is not just reselling beautiful products but also really changing consumer's behavior is by highlighting the fact that these brands are much more. Long lasting devalue. Doesn't go away. They're more durable. This is real craftsmanship. That quite often forget about it's not just brands with big logos on top of them. It's it's real craftsmanship and we believe that we actually help convince people to trade up in some way and so instead of buying the first time. Michael kors bag. You're buying secondhand goods. She bag instead of buying first times. bag maybe buying secondhand schnell. Instead of buying. I engineer you buying a secondhand. All consumers along all different purchasing classes are are basically trading up and being able to afford something which is might citing more expensive than what they used to four biggest. They are wearing the smart about reselling it afterwards if they stopped using john. I think that's when you think about the sustainability in the circularity part is really around extending the life cycle of products. You know we all know. We consume too much. The only way we can stop consuming much repair reuse recycle so the key is to take better care of the products in the key is to extend the usage and the life cycle of these products. What we've really seen we've done a lot of work here because we also want to challenge ourselves in know some of your colleagues have been very tough on me in the past thing isn't resell fueling consumption. And we've actually kind of reflect on that redundant work with ecg. In what we see is i eighty five percent of our customers when they use us they want to buy less but better in seventy percents say because they are aware of secondhand. They treat their products much better. So it's basically again repair reuse cycle. Which are the goals of sustainability. So i can understand given all of the forces that you've mentioned thus far why the sector is gaining more attention from these big players but it's a completely different matter for carrying to work and collaborate with for its brands to work with your new brand approved lists in some of these other things that you've launched. Its another for carrying to take a direct financial stake in your business. Which as an entrepreneur. I know is not something you take lightly. Because you're thinking about what's investors motivations. What's the long term play here. Both for the investor the company. What do you think was the motivation for carrying to take that additional step and say no not only do we want to collaborate and work with a collective. We want to invest invest here collective. I don't want to speak for them but the interaction. I had with them over the past two years admittedly when i joined this year i reached out to most players in the industry just to be polite introduce myself and i spoke to legally Who is the chief digital officer. You know almost two years ago. Now to this day and i just had a incredibly constructive and open relationship in dialogue with him have been very open about where i want to take the business where i saw the opportunity of a partnering with the ecosystem. You know. think about sustainability. There's no second ad without first hand. So i never came in and said we want to replace. Everyone and i really have seen carrying Especially being just very innovative pioneering very open towards digital in the very open towards sustainability. So so i think they genuinely care about that message that they're portraying and they rather have a front seat than being reactive to it. I mean that's the way they explained it to me. I let them kind of comment more on that when we approached his fundraising round. We didn't say we need to have a a big luxury is strategic as an investor mail. We did a pro says. We had a lot of demands. I think our businesses done very. Well we've grown more than one hundred percent on order volume last year. I think the team has done a fantastic job over the last one or two years and there was a lot of interest in in when we then came to the point and segregate who are the right partners the discussions with caring continue to evolve extremely. Well we started having discussions. Are the alexander. Mcqueen obviously already during the process and i felt that having a closer partnership with them just allows us to invest even more so in these more commercial partnerships thing long term have multi year roadmap. I is being transactional with times commercial. Aggregation ships can be so it just made a lot of sense. I think it's important island. It's not just carrying which invested in his round but also tiger global which is probably one of the leading tech investors out there. So i think you know we were extremely fortunate to have these two amazing investors joined the business. One thing that i've been thinking about which is if some of these trends continue to play out as you highlight meaning that big luxury brands respond to this consumer interest in secondhand sales of luxury goods extending the life cycle of these goods. What do you think happens to the overall revenue growth of these companies. Do they end up giving away in in effect some of their future sales at the full price brand new firsthand stage to the second hand resale stage and therefore in a way. Does it cap the scale of growth. That they can have for their core business. No i really don't think so i. I think it's exactly the opposite. I think they're opening up their business too much bigger audience in and they'll get back to that in a second because they allow their existing consumers potentially more consumers to buy more and because they know by buying they resell and that's really the way they look at us. It's basically a service that they're providing to those existing luxury fires. It they look at us. And saying okay years max. He provides resellers a service for us to our customer. He enables us to tell our customers. What you've had this bag now for six twelve eighteen months. Are you still using it as much if not. Why don't you trade it in and we give you a store credit to buy a new one in in some sort of weighed actually generate sales not reduces the sales and secondly where incredible feeder for new customers. We've done a lot of work on that again. Last year would be in in a big part of our customers are buying the They're buying on us for the first time second hand and then afterwards consider buying first time not only do we allow them to increase the volume you know with its existing customers but also feed the new customers. I think what this model means is more threat to the brands. Further down the food chain. And if say like that because ryan's which don't have a good resale value. I think will face much bigger challenge. You know why would you buy a bag for five. Hundred euros of the resell value is only hundred yours while you can buy brand for thousand euros if the resell value is eight fifty you know. And that's really tied to the flight to quality in some sort of way coming back to what i said at the beginning. This allows them to grow the pie. Obviously luxury is also about explicity. And they don't want to grow the pie endlessly so i think that's the way i would think about it if i'm a luxury players so i think i don't think there's any shape of form a threat to future revenue Anything service to their customers. Endorsement to products in the value that their products carrie ann in. Hopefully we will just allow people overall to buy more durable lasting acids than than just consuming for the sake of consuming so one hundred and seventy eight million euros raised during this round at more than a billion dollar valuation. It comes hot on the heels of a a previous round. You did in april. And i'm wondering when you're talking to the investors. What did you say you needed this funding for like. How's it going to help. Accelerate your own plans in scale your business. Where where the primary uses of the funding. The primary uses the funding wraps around technology. It's about how much more developers more data at teams in skating. Those upcoming where where a marketplace. That's very complex. Business to run in the more engineers. We have the better technology bill. The more engaging ours acknowledging our products is the better from our side. We think about engagement we think. About conversion rate we think about discover ability find ability. I mean all of this is endless. I mean if you think about detective that i have today versus the tech team. I had lozada when a left. It's still much smaller. So so the primary uses Actually building around technology. In you know what i told investors. It's the same. What i told the investors when i joined two years ago you give me another ten fifty or a hundred developers near these are the three four things i'm gonna do or this case more than twenty or thirty things i'm going to do in you. Know i mean the team have very clear roadmap of the product in tech that we wanna build of next two three years and this raises more about doing the same doing it faster. I having more people at the second part is is you know. We've had fantastic traction across the whole of europe. We've had very good traction in the us traction. In the in the in the in the countries we already president in asia that good traction rest of the world countries that we don't spend any time on. I mean we have markets like romania. Poland and greece were just exploding. And and you know. We don't even have a local website and both the buyer and the center site. So so i think you know geographic expansion opening up not phone buying side. What else from selling side service services is is definitely the second partner. Third one is around how it can. We now work together with brands to provide an innovative in pioneering way of of working very closely together and i think the alexander mcqueen is definitely the first example. You know the concept that very different to what we today that you can actually go into alexander mcqueen store as a former vice in customer and you drop off item in the santa assistance tells you at that moment. Product is priced at this. You wanna trade end. Yes years store credit straightaway by a new item. That's groundbreaking for the industry. And you know this is not just a one off. you know. we're still very much in a be step mode. And and we're learning. And but we want to invest much more into that and build Really rethink about the way that people think about consumption. So i think those three pillars which are big pillars to to invest in. You know we thinking about global expansion whether it's organic or inorganic. There's lots more great technologies to think about whether it's blockchain or or other as synergistic businesses or or categories. I mean the spectrum of things that we could look at right now is pretty broad in having you know what i would call some sort of a war. Chest is is a good place to be at the moment. Are there any challenges. Max in the market that you know as you look ahead the next five to ten years. What are the big blockers. That are still slowing down the development of this market absolutely. There's there's big knockers. I mean you think about a platform like ours where defined by the liquidity that we provide for buyers and sellers so anything that blocks the liquidity is something that we need to remove overtime Blockers can be anything from the cost of a transaction Shipping costs can be lack of trust the customers that have been buying a secondhand item. It can be the ability to find products that are right size for you in secondhand. Obviously you go into the store even if you go online you know. One brand sells a certain amount of items you know at this brand. This is is always the same way. Become to apply for my ours which secondhand in which goebel different sizes different locations. You know not. Everyone uses the same metrics. I mean there's a lot of knockers in. I think if you'd think about you know the things that are invested to remove these bunkers. And so so you know i would. I would be very scared if studio today. tell you there's no challenges in the next five to ten years because of their no challenges you know anyone could come into the space and just muscle in you know. I like having some complexity in the business that means that not. Everyone can do it so so absolutely. There are lots of blockers. And that's a good thing because you know that that means we still have a long way to go until we unlock those trillion plus items lying in people's closets too. That's the big thing is to unlock that inventory. That sitting in all of our closets alrosa world to. I would not i would love to would love to have an insight into iran's closet in no what is in there what's being used. What's not being used. You know what's been lying. They're left alone sad for months or years on end. I would love to be able to tell you you know. Iman your wardrobe is worth ten thousand. Twenty thousand may be much more. I don't know no one will ever know. But i think i the more understanding i haven't there's many ways from you to get access to the information you know is is. I can encourage you products. Even if you don't want to sell them you know we can work together with partners. And creating what i would call digital wardrobe and there's many ways from us to start engaging with you then one of the most fascinating stats i've ever heard was senior. I think it was a ceo of one of the biggest banks in singapore. He asked me to time. Hoffman to people. Check their current account balance on their banking up. And i you know. I was like three or four times a month you know. Why would anyone want to check the current account balance. I mean it's your salary and he's spending. I mean it doesn't change that dramatically and he was like nomex four times a day and that's what i call engagement. I mean if you can create an excitement and games occasion around that. I think there's a long long way to go. And i think that's how you really make people realize what value is lying in their wardrobe whether you're rich or your poor at doesn't really matter. I mean no one is just lying having cash lying in their wardrobe unused. Everyone likes investing putting in a bank or putting the stock market or blockchain or bitcoin. These days known as the same of the water. Why would you you know have a expensive bag lying in your wardrobe completely unused if you can monetize it in and put that money into better use and i think that's really the vision that we're working towards last question Connor going back to what we talked about the beginning. This is a big deal for best their collective. You know it makes you. I know i kinda hate this word. But it does make their collective like. The fashion industry's newest unicorn with the greater than a billion dollars. And you've invested personally in. This isn't this company. So you have your own skin in the game as they say. Do you think karen could be a potential acquirer. One day is this. Is this like a line to an exit. Have you thought that far ahead. Where does this go from here. I have not thought that far ahead. But i can give you the answer. I really do not want to sell this year. I mean i've sold my previous company to baba and you know and i still regret it to this day. I think there is nothing more fulfilling than than continuously to to build and create great companies. Especially when they're so mission driven than invests the air. There's a lot of talk about stability. But i think you don't need anyone of this year doesn't fundamentally believe in what we're doing in wearing incredibly tough on ourselves on where we're not holding us to our own high standards that kind of an opportunity to build such business doesn't come very Again i built a similar company like this before in selling it even to this day in incredibly bittersweet experiencing that. I don't wanna go through. So so i don't see any reason to sell. I mean we're all having way too much from this. Investment is not to set up a sale in the future While maybe caring has something else in mind. But i guess only time will tell but thank you for taking time out of i know has been a very very busy week for you to break down the thinking behind this deal done all right take care bye bye while max may not be ready to sell the company just yet carrying may have other intentions when a strategic investor like carrying takes a stake in a high profile startup in disruptive new industry segment. There is clearly a lot more than financial returns. Play to get the other side of the story. I spoke to robert. Williams are paris based correspondent covered. This story for peo- f. this week to better understand carryings long game. How some of the other big players may engage in the luxury sector and the challenges. That may lie ahead a think the most important thing at this stage is that you know. They're getting their foot in the door. They're getting exceeded the table because this sector is so controversial and it seems to have so much attention stole in ways that could be quite positive for fashion but also perhaps quite problematic. I think the biggest priority for them is you know to have this visibility on what's going on as well as you know a bit of influence and hopefully be able to steer in what direction this is going. You mentioned that caring has put in at least fifty million dollars on how we know that is that they have disclosed around the five percent stake and we have maximilian now telling us that the company is valued above on billion so that is a pretty significant investment. I can understand why it's going to be seen as a vote of confidence in just how important an how promising this might be. I don't think it necessarily means that. The luxury industry's position to would resale is set to completely thaw Maximilian talking about how at a mcqueen story the future you might be able to just come in with your products and handed them over in exchange for store credit. You know we don't know that the partnership is gonna go that deep for the moment the brand is just reaching out to certain key clients that they know have an archive that would be interesting to sell but caring's long game if we were to see how it could be extended to different brands in their portfolio. One thing that's gonna be interesting is how this could influence how the brands are perceived on cell site a site like Part of whites fund for users. but a bit For the luxury brands is that products are coming to the site in all kinds of conditions being presented in all sorts of ways if the brand start to have more sway and start to populate the site with things that they approve of that the items they find fashionable that have been photographs in a way they like. That are priced in a way. They like they start to find to clinton real estate on the resale site for that. I think that could be very positive for them. That's super interesting. So i just wanted to dive a bit deeper one of the things you said you said that. This is potentially a controversial or problematic part of the emerging part of the retail ecosystem in luxury. What why is that. Will i think from the very beginning. The luxury brands have been able to see. How resale could kind of a road. The control over distribution and perception of their brands which they have built up over decades. If you look at brands like christian dior since the nineteen eighties. They have been discontinuing. Any kind of regional license agreement. They have been discontinuing. Partnerships with department stores are wholesalers to arrive at a place where the only place you can buy your and be sure that it's not counterfeit is at your store. That's what they want you to believe and now with Not lots of people are posting items which are clearly genuine christian. Dior in the brand has to say well. How do we navigate that now. Customers could come in contact with things. We produced thirty years ago that were produced in like you know korean sizing under a license agreement this sorts of drones and all the history of what luxury brands have been in the past being visible alongside with their present iteration. That's something that can be quite problematic in terms of brands control over how they're perceived another issue. That chanel has raised in particular. Is the question of does having such a robust resale ecosystem increase the risk of counterfeits. Unclearly you have these sites putting a lot of effort and energy into authentification and verifying that everything is real but the more work they do on that of course the more energy might get put by counterfeiters into making very sophisticated fakes. We've seen on a huge court case. In france with former areas employees who were caught in a multi-million dollar counterfeiting scheme making extremely accurate organs for example. So that's really interesting. Because a kind of explains why some of the other luxury players have been a bit more reticent almost combative in some situations in terms of the way. They're dealing with this. You know the canal has had a long standing legal battle with the real real in the us and when asked about the retail sector Last year antoine arnault of the ludi. Mr arnault's son said they're still exploring it but carrying taken a much more bold forward-looking stop at the saying okay. Well if this if this sector is going to be around we might as well be part of shaping it as opposed to just letting it develop without our involvement. So why do you think the other players are being more careful here. A think bad. Chanel has a unique positioning. Insofar as they are one of the only remaining luxury brands were true scarcity is still a part of their model in so far as they do not sell long line. And if you don't have the resources or the time to go to chanel store in a major world capital you won't be getting a chanel bag and that's Part of how they have preserved. The cachet of this brand over time and so in the internet in general has always been problematic for chanel trying to negotiate their relationship with e commerce and social media. Now that we have online resale. It's just added a new complication. Wear their seeing people presenting their products photographing them. Pricing them in ways that don't necessarily align with the brand and how they want to be perceived so they have wanted to take the position that That they are the only place you can buy. Guaranteed one hundred percent authentic. Chanel and anyone. Who's claiming that. Their resale products are that is is not telling. The truth is what they. They've tried to claim that's been their argument bottom. Chanel has this issues issues with the internet. In general and resale has definitely added even more complications to that. Lvmh i think is going to maybe take more conservative stance into than someone like caring but they have a mixed range of brands. A mix of reasons they would either want to get involved or not. I think it's still very much wait-and-see to go back to carrying though carrying has certainly a motivation to show that they are on top of this and to show that you know wherever the action is in fashion. They're making sure they have a seat at the table that they have influence and that they're supporting innovation actually because they position themselves as the most environmentally conscious luxury group and they've been very vocal about their sustainability commitments. They probably can't square that with being quite as adversarial with resale We know that we sale is is really positive. First involvement in terms of ways to consume fashion. So that all makes sense so robert. I think you're avesta collective user you know all these brands seem to have such concerns as you've outlined about being present in that kind of environment about the risk to their brand perception about like from your own personal experience with vast aire collective like what's it like as a as a luxury customer you know engaging with that platform you know i am Tiv user i got into it because of the fact that you know luxury fashion brands. They changed so much from year to year and sometimes the item or the category. You're looking for is something that really is gonna come from the past so for me. It's the latest iteration of thrift store shopping and hunting and vintage stores you know. Vcr collective is the biggest resell platform in europe so the inventory kind of reflects the rich diversity of fashion that's been sold in european department stores and boutiques over the decades. You can really like spend hours sifting through various miss. Sony shirts from the nineties were Sandra read gauche but I will tell you that there is a lot of friction in the process because sizing has changed so much time the way products are labelled though what reasons they might come from. Various licensing deals that have evolved. It's very hard to proceed with the purchase on resale. Being sure that you're going to really get what you want unless you're looking for some of the most flagship popular items that people really know how to photograph and kind of package and explain in a sort of cofide way Okay so robert. I know it's a hard question. But how do you see the salt developing over the next few years you know. There's this growing concern about waste in the fashion industry and people have positioned resale as kind of helping the industry to become more circular. Were in a very difficult. Economic environment. people have less money in their bank accounts or some people have less money in their bank accounts in are being bit more price conscious. There's all sorts of reasons tailwinds really for why the sector should explode over the coming years. What do you see happening. I do see that there are gonna to be more and more consumers who are willing to put the energy into finding clothes for their wardrobe on resale it takes time and energy but people are currently very concerned about the ethics of buying new clothes in light of the various scandals. That have emerged about the way people are being treated in the supply chain whether it's in cotton fields in china or in other regions where their spin child labor scandals. All of this is really in people's consciousness it's motivating factor to try to find things. They like at second hand on the other hand. I heard maximilian saying in your conversation that he thought the model could be kind of scaled without limit because they're trillions of items in people's closets there are trillions of items people's closets but a lot of them. They're not wearing them for a reason. And if you've been then really think you know how. Many people had the desirable item in their closet. Something that someone would really want to buy and will ever they have in which they don't want any more and also they have the time it just sell. I think when you think about that and you know what portion of your wardrobe would you be willing to try to monetize. That people are actually interested in buying you. See that sourcing. The inventory for sites like this year collective in the real real is going to continue to be be a challenge. I was looking on there yesterday. at stone island as thinking. Wouldn't it be fun to have stone island tracksuit and wanted to get resale. So that i'd feel comfortable rolling around in the park with you know playing with my friends dogs and not feel like i need to treat it like something really precious a popular item like that can be very hard to find on resale whereas like i said you know Massoni shirts from the nineteen nineties. That is a bit easier quo. Well they say that. One person's junk is another person's treasure. So if max advancedhair collective and the real real and all of these companies managed to get people to empty their closets there junk maybe it'll be treasures. Other people will just have to wait and see. Don't miss roberts b. o. f. professional article on this landmark deal at business of fashion dot com. If you're not yet a. b. o. f. professional member podcast. Listeners can benefit from a twenty five percent discount on your first year of an annual membership using the code podcast pro. That's podcast p. r. The buick podcast is produced by venetia van horn. I'll come on cape farce hand and kevin bobby cook in the studio t.
Mother, Champion, Queen, Goddess
"This is Lisa and this is, and this is pop fashion. Locarno to hear your voice again. Good to hear your voice. Welcome back from New York City, tell me it's been two weeks, since car, and I spoke via the internet and so much happened. So much has happened. I think the headline here is that you went and saw camp. Tell us about it. I got really lucky because my new benevolent overlord let us out early on Friday before the long weekend, and the Matt has longer weekend hours during the summer, which I guess starts in may. I don't know what their hours are but at the stars aligned and I was like, let's go to the museum. So my friend, Stephanie went with me, and we went to see camp now Carin last year had some major issues with the Mets fashion institute exhibit on Catholicism and fashion. And if I recall, correctly your two major arguments. Were way finding that like the this exhibit didn't have a clear path through it. And there's something else. I can't remember okay? Worms opened up the can of them. I had a whole lot of problems with as exhibit. I didn't really wanna talk about it because I didn't want to discourage people from going because I think it's still good even if I don't like it. That's okay. I still want people to go and see close, but I had some problems about what was end they exhibit right right, right? How they labeled things the way finding like I just I had an experience there now what was your experience like in this particular one? So this one, I was also thinking about finding going in because I knew that last year was an issue. I also had recalled it last year. I was there and like week two after the met gala, and the labels already pilling up off the floor, and I was upset. So this year, I go in expecting great things. And as far as the way finding goes, it was a very clear. Path through the historical story. I really loved it was a very clear follow this path. Learn these things, go see these objects, right? It was none of his milling about, but in terms of the labels on items, there are a lot of items behind glass, and instead of making labels that were like within the glass, maybe at an angle. They stuck those little vinyl labels right on the window. Oh, no. You can see damping if you look at our Instagram story that I put up from the exhibit, you will see how hard it is to read, a lot of the labels in the first part of the of the exhibit, which is all pink walls, everything with these labels on the glass, which was way more difficult to read than I anticipated. So that was a little bit frustrating. Also a little bit funny was at the end. There's a great large room. That is like the coup ta of this exhibit, and it's a beautiful overwhelming experience, just like sense. Overload. And instead of things being behind glass, they were in hollowed out Cubbies within the room and the labels were on the floor, and they were set just so everyone was leaning down to look at the labels and their big all heads kept setting off the alarm. Oh. Move your head. I'm like off, so many times that I couldn't even tell you where where the alarm common from. So in terms of actually exploring what camp means I thought it was a very interesting look through history didn't do as good of a job explaining what camp means now. But as always it was. Beautiful beautiful. Yeah. Definitely if you're gonna go to the mat, and spend twenty five dollars to get into the met, you might as well go see it, I hate that the label I mean because it really is about learning effort Mason, along with the things. That's what these EM's are about. Yeah. So I don't like that. But I'm still glad you went. I think there's still something. But I'm still glad I went to. Yeah, I just wish these rookie mistakes, and like this is one of our top museums, and I'm struggling with us two years in a row. Come on, now, just a minor beefs. What was your favorite thing that you saw? Oh man. Oh man. Who was my favorite thing. You know, the first thing that comes to my mind. So I'm going to go with it is the Bjork swan dress. It's so good. It's a classic if I think about camp in my lifetime in my cultural consciousness. That is a moment that I remember that's a moment that I can tell you about what it was like, in that time in a year, that I refuse to remember exactly, which one it was. But for me as a person who is like a kid in the nineties, that was a big moment. And it was very cool to see that item in person, so cool. I remember when that happened everybody was like she she wearing a bird. She had a bird around her neck. Not pictured in the exhibit, was the egg that she laid on the red carpet. Do you remember that that was not forgot about that? Yeah. Definitely if you're thinking about whether or not to go see it, go see it. If you've already seen in have opinions, please do right in because I'm just one person who saw an exhibit and had feelings about it. That does not make me a museum studies expert. So if you got to see and you have a big head try not to tip over. That's what we learned that the takeaway don't lean too far. Bring your opera glasses and peer over carefully. Can you imagine go to the camp exhibit with opera glasses? That's amazing. Everyone do that. Do do you would be like super street photography's? Like, there are a lot of fashionable. People are the exhibit, and I definitely enjoyed just looking around the room and other people's outfits as much as I enjoy looking at the fashion in the Cubbies, cool difficult seeing things, but make it fashion. Making fashion will you please catch us up on what the hell is going on out there car, and dress barn, shutdown, or is shutting down? That's the big news. They are closing six hundred fifty locations. I didn't realize that they were that big. Yeah. They have been in business for sixty years, the couldn't make a pass twenty nine hundred they aren't shutting down right away. It's going to be a process. So you might see some of your local store, still open gonna take while the company's six thousand eight hundred store. Employees will be notified as the decisions are made about specific closures. Their parent company is called sina. They also own and Taylor. Aunt, loft the chief executive of the company David Jaffe step down earlier this month. He was the son of the. Founder. And he led the company for twenty seven years after the story came out, I got contacted by listener that asked the question, do you think dress bar would have had better luck if they decided to change their name lethal? Do you think they would have made it? Okay to explain thinking about the dress barn. Name, it helps to explain my formula for deciding on the poor one out drink for this eventual closure, which is dress barn makes me think of those ads. They did where they made fun of themselves in hell barn animals, which makes me think about weddings in Barnes, which makes me think about drinking things out of Mason, jars at weddings Barnes, which makes me think of Mojo's that is a long, walk to get a Mojo. But am I wrong? I I'm a little surprised with that answer. I was expecting it. To be something dairy based. Oh, like a white Russian or something, something with cream maybe. The song. You know which one I mean Cal Cal now that I'm a cow Antica. Don't say me. I love that song. So much. Now I leaned into the barn aesthetic on this one. I see. Yeah. Yeah. So in conclusion, yet, maybe a name change to help, I think name-change, plus a refresh product selection. Plus, they obviously had too many stores, six hundred fifty locations, as bun, nana's these days. And when you think about what plus size retailers were doing, you know that specific category. I often thought of dress barn lane Bryant and lane. Bryant was doing a lot more in terms of designer collaborations and having styles that really felt like more up to the minute. So, you know, relevance is important. I don't think they kept up, which is fortunate. I was hoping after sixty years, they could pull something out. You know, they can't pull them out. So we're going to pour one out, and it's going to be a mint Mojo in a Mason jar on a hail. You want to go straight into another one. Tell me top shop would top shop having problems. They are filing chapter fifteen and the United States of America, which is what that is. It's chapter thirteen with international flair it's for people who have international businesses, they're closing, all of their US stores. At least their parent company is which is called Arcadia group. Arcadia groups owner, sir. Philip green has been in the news, this past year because of sexual harassment charges we talked about them on the show. Oh, it was Mr. green and the top shop with no customers. Yes, he's the one who did it beyond a ended up dropping her deal with the company as a result of those accusations. Arcadia owns top shop burden and Dorothy, Perkins and Europe at has five hundred sixty six locations. It is now currently planning are closing twenty three of those stores. So they're not closed completely they're closing their US stores. They're having some problems overseas. The company is seeking rich cuts on one hundred ninety four of those stores which isn't a bad idea, if everybody could lower their rent, I think they would go for it, but sir green is offering this crazy deal. He told landlords if they give him a break on the rent he will give them a twenty percent share of the proceeds of any future sale of our Katya. Do you believe that or do you think back? He might be a sneaky snake. I mean that sounds like really complicated. I'm pretty sure the mall, real estate companies kind of just want their money up front at this point. Yeah. I don't blame somebody for trying like reducing rent as a way that a lot of people are rethinking their stores, especially if they can't close them down. So many retailers are stuck in ten year leases, which isn't sanity right now so that overhead is really hurting them, especially with a peril retailers. So I don't blame them for trying. He's still a snake. Yeah. I don't think this is gonna work out. Well, European friends. Tell us what you're seeing is your local, top shop staying open closing. What's the hubbub bub? Are you hearing any talk about it? And you know, we're still going to pour one out for the United States locations, I have to. Give a hand to listen to Ron Davis who suggested the drink. I'm going to go with which is a cherry vodka sour. Perfect top shop drink. Thank you. France perfect. Thank you so much. Also, I do want to note that another comment when we posted this on Instagram, the return of comments most of them totally in dismay, but somebody said, so Kelly said complete ringer for the bingo board and I just want to note that the maker of the bingo board is the listener that I ran into at the met last week. So Christine people are still thinking about your bingo board Christine, you're kind of famous and my office. Because we hung up the bingo board and we go there and cross things off. I'm not kidding. My office talks about it. Fame fame comes in many forms, y'all. Can I just like pivot real hard and go to a fashion crime? Let's do it saying the song fashion. Crime is my favorite subject car, actually handed me this fashion crime. She was thinking of me, this is what love is like, when it's a love language, handing you a fashion crime news. Definitely my, my love language. Yes. Somebody got in trouble for trying to sell counterfeit goods from China to the US military in the US government. This is something we touched on a few weeks ago. We were talking about new military uniforms, Kerr made a crack about them being made in China. And I noted that for the most part, military uniforms for the US have to be made within the US with some exceptions. But they're basically never made in China back to the crime at hand eight clothing in goods, wholesaler, from Brooklyn was charged with conspiracy to commit wire fraud and trafficking in counterfeit goods income. Action with selling more than twenty million dollars worth of fake shit. According to the case, the forty nine year old defendant and his co-conspirators provided samples of actual military uniforms and gear to manufacturers in China for them to replicate. Then they allegedly reviewed production specs for the fakes to confirm. They looked pretty close to the real thing. The defendant, then parceled out the counterfeit goods to other wholesalers, who then marketed and sold them to military government buyers as genuine American made products. So just as a review of US law, conspiracy to commit wire fraud is punishable by up to five years in federal prison, three years, supervised release and a fine of up to two hundred fifty thousand dollars. Meanwhile trafficking in counterfeit goods is punishable by up to ten years in federal prison, three years supervised release a fine of up to two hundred fifty thousand dollars. So this could be very bad for this man, whose name, I'm not gonna say, because of morals and also because I cannot pronounce it. You know, Lisa when I come to think about who I wanna rip off an entire military is not on the top of my list, because I'm thinking they may have some resources to bring me down. Like they have weapons. They have the entire Pentagon, they have six thirteen for like they can get you. So don't try to trick them with them close friend. But I imagine thinking to yourself as the movie plays on your head. Like what a cash cow they're always going to need this stuff. And it's not so trendy that it's going to go out of style, and I'm gonna be stuck with shit, right? I mean you do have a captive audience that needs the product, but I still wouldn't try to trick the military. No. Let me get caught. That's I'm not saying it's treason. But could it be treason? I say they're probably. Going to Leavenworth. It's like light treason. Oh, as treason with fashion. Treason with flair. Budget on facet. Goodbye. Dumb dumbs. You're going to prison. And other news Sports Illustrated is being soul to authentic brands group, so you might be asking yourself, what is often to brands group. Oh, they own everything. They own. Here's a partial list area, postal, Banda Lino Fredericks of Hollywood. Judy tour Jones New York Nata and nine west, and about twenty out of brands too, so they own everything that's in the mall. Right. All those brands they bought Sports Illustrated for one hundred ten million dollars. Why would they do this up until this point Sports Illustrated was owned by Meredith Corp and Meredith will continue to operate the magazine and website for two years? So they're going to continue doing what they do. She's going to be under different owners. They will also keep the same editor in chief and publisher during that time in the meantime, authentic. Brands group, also known as a g will assume the marketing business development and licensing, operations for Sports Illustrated. The deal includes associated brands including Sports Illustrated, kids, sports, person of the year, Sports Illustrated swimsuit, sl and sl TV it also includes the entire archive of Sports Illustrated photography. The two companies said that they are going to work together to quote build a premium sports platform. It will include events, conferences licensing deals gambling gaming, an IP development, especially when it comes to video, and TV Sports Illustrated is the most read sports magazine in the world. They have over one hundred and twenty million readers. And now they belong to a clinic company, what just happened. There is so much going on here, but I can't get past the idea of, like Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition. Brought to you by Frederick's of Hollywood. Like I'm like, well, that's the one obvious brand high end that I can think of. But I mean beyond that, I'm very conflicted because some of the best sports writing out their lives within the Sports Illustrated, family of, of brands of titles. And I. I think that media is in a weird spot where you kind of have to do these things like events in licensing and stuff to make it work. But at the same time I do every time something like this happens. I get concerned about, like what about preserving the art form what about reporting and maybe a reporter at heart, and that's all I can think about. Yeah, the thing that caught me that was so confusing about this was the idea of gambling. The sports magazine company is working with a clothing company to build something that's gambling related what I can see this happening because e sports, not using e sports and, and sports gambling. They are two separate things, but sports gambling is going to be more of a thing now, according to laws that I can't quote back to you. But if, if hype Athetic leading this new Sports Illustrated conglomerate could create a sports betting platform like that could draw a lot of revenue. Do what I think about where magazines are going right now. Even vogue said that they're going to start doing events like VIP events for certain section of their readers. So I think you're right. It's kind of like news media outlets. These days are having to think of let me put my reported product out there. But then I have to do this thing, plus after do events after do conferences, like have to get an other spaces because I have to diversify revenue stream and it's not like the editors and reporters are going to be in charge of like setting up all the events that's going to be like different business departments that get involved, but it's, it's a lot of people working on different things within a publication that, you know, we talk a lot about the left hand in the right hand knowing what the other is doing in fashion, and supply chain. There's a lot of that, that goes on in media to this apprised me, there was a rumor that it was going to happen. But I was like really guys. Oh, yes, really? It happened. Today clothing brand, anything is possible kids, don't give up on your dreams. You too might own a clothing company and magazine. One day. Let's talk about transition sentence my favorite shoe brand that I love to hate as we're like hate to love. Love hate relationships mutual, so Edita's. Where does crocs fit it and then oh, that's a hate hate relationship. Oh, okay. Got I hate crocs crocs hates me for talking so much about how I hate crocks. I see. So that's hey, this is love hate. This is this is this is an on again off again, relationship data's it's complicated. We'll get back to that. For those of you new listeners who were like what is Lisa's problem with Adidas? So the news this week is that is testing the future craft loop. It is the first sneaker it is designing to be returned to us for recycling into another pair of shoes. Adidas is looking at this sneaker as part of the closed loop process, where nothing ends up in landfills, according to an article about it in Blasi, David quad, who was the project director, on the global strategy team told glossy that consumption can facilitate the expression of self creativity. But people as we know on the show are becoming more aware of the car. Consequences that consumption can have. So they're trying to offset that model of consumption. He said, quote, at the end of the day, even our product made from recycled ocean plastic still gets thrown away. That's the key insight that fueled future craft loop and gave us the inspiration to come up with an alternative unquote. Adidas is testing the future craft loop sneakers with a group of two hundred consumers influencers and athletes that does not include me. Are you better just a little another two to three hundred pairs are being tested by Adidas employees and in a few months, they're all gonna turn in their shoes so that they can be recycled into a second generation? So they're going to test, how well they can close this loop, so the parley, which is the Adidas shoe made out of recycled plastic collected from oceans debuted back in twenty fifteen and sold about eleven million pairs this past year. So there's definitely interest in a shoe that has some recycled or upcycle components, even though they have never sent me the free pair that I ask for four years ago. But I'm sure it's just lost in the mail. I could go out and buy one with my dollars. But I haven't I just sit here and complain. Adidas says that it wants sustainability to be holistic, not just one collection or one shoe, but glossy notes in this article that Dita's way of thinking, goes against the standard for sneakers, which, you know, we get hyped up for are really frequent and drop, and then consumers move onto the next item, the next hot sneaker and reselling. Sneakers on the second hand market has increased the lifespan of shoe, but really only for devoted sneaker heads. I have a theory about this, which is that, you know, like few people want to buy a secondhand sneaker, unless it's a collector's item because of the fact that sneakers, get worn so hard, right? You're not wearing them once or twice to a party, you bring them to run on the road or to do like dirty things getting out in nature. You know, they get smelly. They get worn. And that's what sneakers are meant to be. So sneakers mumber done using them. They often don't get donated to. To charity shops, because they've, they're Athey end of their life, and we just throw them out. So, I think sneakers is a really great way to experiment with this closed loop manufacturing process. But what do you think Carne is it is it worth giving up a little bit of the hype to save our one off? And when you put it like that way to back you in our corner, don't give up the hype. Obviously. No. I mean I like it that they're experimenting with us. I think there's a market for it. I think we're eventually going to have to do it anyway, because we're going to be living on our trash like hermit crabs trying to find a home like Templeton the rat. But I see a world where both things are possible that you can have brand new shoes. But they're still this part of their products can grow to and have a bigger market, where there will be people who wanna buy and recycle their shoes, essentially, and be part of this loop. I don't necessarily think like right away one will replace the other. But maybe they can live together simultaneously. Yeah. I think a lot of it comes down to adjusting what brings us excitement right now. I think a lot of us would agree that like it's fun and exciting to buy something new. And I think if brands are able to help shift that excitement to something that's recycled or something that you bought second-hand through its network, shifting that excitement to a more sustainable mindset is going to take a lot of convincing for a lot of people. But, you know, in the long run could be away that we navigate some of this. Agree. And it's just gonna become necessary. That's my ultimate thought. We're just gonna have to do it, eventually. Yeah. And like Dita's if you need my home address, like, just Email us have you picked up on why she's a little better. Just pop fashioned into your mouth dot com. I wanna be an early adopter for something once in my life. But I also don't want to shell out the bucks for it, which in turn makes me an influence her. See all together. It's a business plan right there next door. Let's talk about Serena Williams. There's an article New York Times by Vanessa Friedman called. Serena Williams won't be silenced. Her clothes are doing the talking. And it said Serena Williams, tennis, outfits are political tool. And here's why the French Open started on Sunday on that day, Williams, wore her latest Nike outfit. It was designed by Virgil at blow. It was part of the Nike off-white, Perner ship, it was black and white striped had crop top a skirt. It also had a jacket that looks like a small Cape that she took off in which she played. It was really cool. It also had the words mother champion Queen and goddess on it in French last year. If you remember Williams wore. Catsuit to the French Open. We talked about it on this show. I was like, kind of like a body suit, right? Everyone lost their damn minds for her wearing this cat suit. She wore for specific reason to help prevent blood clots because she had just given birth. The French Open thirties, said it was a dress code violation and also kicked up a debate on what athletes should wear on the court. Specifically, what was expected of female tennis players. The US open that same year Williams played in a two, I think just to be like all gave you famine. It was awesome. It was also designed by Abbo and Nike. Serena Williams is not just one of the top female athletes in the world. She is one of the top athletes, period. So which she came out in this outfit. It was a great tennis outfit. But I also think there's something kind of. Pointed here where it said those words that described her not an English friend. She said in French, and I think that is part of an ongoing conversation. She's having about being an athlete fashion. And what is expected in this role that she is just subverting by being herself? And through the use of close. Yeah, if you're not a fan of Serena Williams, you can go away from me. Yup. If I remember correctly from last year at the French Open, a lot of the flack that she guy was from the French audience. Am I remembering that correctly, it was from the, the French Open forties? So it wasn't necessarily from the public, I suppose she got to mostly the pop goes on our side. It was mostly from the people who the very traditionally authority figures around that particular event because tell you, I love watching tennis, but is the most uptight sport y'all got, like all over the world. These uniforms, or does impractical. And I just don't understand any of it. Love the sport, hate the rules around. High got address there. I think here like Serena's speaking to exactly who she wants to speak to. Yeah. I think whatever like great like through both ripple. She's in with, like Virgil. Blow. And Nike is so great because of Virgil Abla will poke the bear, right? Yeah. And Nike's letting the two of them worked together to do it. And saying, we, we Stammheim this woman, and I love that relationship that they have in terms of design and apparel. Agreed. It's a great thoughtfully, right? Which I keep calling through everyone corrects me every time, which tells you that I'm not in one. Yeah. I heard it on shits creek. I'm still confused. Smother quick fashion news carrying has announced that it's going to stop hiring models under the age of eighteen the company owns Gucci. Saint Laurent Balenciaga, a host of other luxury brands and the new rule goes into effect for all of its brands next year. Carryings chief sustainability officer, Marie-Claire devote told business of fashion, we are more and more conscious of the kind of influence. We have on younger generations through the images produced by our maize on it is our responsibility to put in place, the best possible practices. Several other companies have set a minimum model age at eighteen including Conde nast, and some talent agencies, New York has a child model act that has strict regulations for work permits around child models. But carrying so far is the only large luxury fashion conglomerate to enact such a rule stating that models need to be eighteen or up. There is going to be like grandfathering period where models who? Were, you know, sixteen or seventeen when they started can continue to model for them up until the point where they turn eighteen here's the interesting part of this, though, which is such like high school lunch room lockers in the hallway be asked that I love. So in twenty seventeen LVMH and carrying I guess, arguably we could say the two top competitors and laundry fashion, they rate, they signed a charter that said, neither of them would hire models under sixteen. So what carrying is doing is saying, oh, we have this agreement LVMH. But we're just gonna do you one better. Okay. Bye. I love it. LVMH came out. And essentially said, yeah, we're not doing that, that they're not going to raise the age either which it should be raised. Let's put the protections around children and LVMH said, fuck them kids. They said, get to work bitch better have my money. I guess they don't have to participate, but it seems like such a no brainer of having this protection. It seems so easy. I think it's because they wanna have they still wanna have very young bodies modeling clothes, and I think for everybody's protection. It's better to have a minimum there that acts as a buffer like let's have adults model close. Yeah. The thing that was most striking to me. I enjoyed that this business of fashion article brought in some knowledge from some experts around child modeling and policies around child modeling and the information shows that very young models, who start on runways at the age of fifteen sixteen whatnot. They are expected to stay at the same size even though they're going through Peabody, and like changing sizes would be the normal thing to happen to someone who's growing up. But because there's this expectation. Action for them to stay the same size child. Models exponentially develop eating disorders, and it's just a thing that if you see someone walked down the runway and they look amazing in this beautiful garment, he don't know how old they are. But like behind the scenes, there's so much going on and so much more that could be done to just like protect our young people. This is a no brainer. It should it should be done. It should have been done years ago. The children are future. Teach them. Well, and let them lead the way and let them eat more than a salary stick, please. Let them be humans humans will change bodies. Yeah. I mean, they're probably going to have the same body that body will they're not gonna like, you know, teleport themselves into alien bobby's or whatnot. You don't know you don't know there's been not a UFO action around here lately. You don't know. I mean, I have watched files all the way through twice. So I believe just about anything. That's it for fashion news. Moving listener those pew pew pew. That's that's laser noises. Not popular Pune noises. So it's been a long time since I read any listener letters. And we got some really great responses to our listener who was looking for sustainability jobs. So I just want to go over quickly, a couple of the options that were brought up. One thing that came up over and over, again, was that sustainability jobs aren't under like a sustainability department, right? Because the companies that are doing well and sustainability are not bragging about it. They are busy doing the work, so you sort of have to poke around in different areas in different jobless things to find elements of sustainability different brands, but some other tips, that came out where to look at Shannon lower. She's the owner of factory forty five it's factory forty five dot CO factory four or five that CO. She specializes in consulting to sustainable fashion brands, maybe our listener contact her for advice, another idea is she could join fashion organization in her area, like maybe a fashion group international in the area, I would recommend following those two companies on, so for media seeing with her bowel Jimmy little bit of research, don't necessarily Email someone unless you have a very specific question. But maybe but I do appreciate those steps. Another one. Another listener said, checkout, good on you, which the address is good on you EKO and done. Good dot C out databases for sustainable shopping. So once you find like a brand that you're drawn to then go to their website. Find their careers page. Then see you know what's going on with that company? And that listener said, good luck on the job. Search and don't give up. She mentioned sort of falling into a sustainability job through just her regular job search in finding a really good position. So if you're looking for sustainability, jobs keep up the good fight. Let us know what you're finding out there. What leg sort of hidden keywords. You see. And I'll keep you posted on this here show that is my update on that next. We have a note from Mary, who says Carin this notice for carring. Now it's gonna promise. She says, I'm so excited. You're learning about finance, I can relate so much in March. I join a financial tech start up as the director of client success, our software, automates billing and reporting for financial advisory firms. I really want this job and the Goshi aided my salary, like total baller because I knew very little about finance and was always scared of that, and have always wanted to learn more. I figured I might as well. Get paid to learn. It is a massive learning curve, but I'm learning so much. Plus, my company is hiring. And as a director, I make those decisions. I've already hired one woman have a summer female intern coming on board and have an outreach effort with women and tack to hire more than I. I have full backing of our founders, and feel like in my small little way. I'm changing the finance and tech industry one female higher at a time. If you know any women in Chicago with finance tech experience sear them my way, keep up the fantastic work. Oh. And there are a lot of dumb FOX, who work in finance. Don't be intimidated. Thank you. Merry marry. A make him a day. Thank you, for that was awesome. I'm so excited for you. I love that success story. Thank you to Melissa for sending us an article about a survey that found the women prefer targets bras to those from Vicky hush hush. Oh. That's not the important part, the important part is that there's an analyst at loop capital named Laura champagne and last year, she gave a Tory, a secret, the nickname, the Sears of brassieres. Mazing and I love it so much. And thank you, Laura for dubbing that, thank you, Melissa for pointing me in the right direction to discover this. Thank you ladies. Thank you, Sears of procedures steers of brassieres. It is so gun. This note comes from the NASA, who says, do you make my commutes to LA a breeze? She says I'm writing here because I'm fuming with returns refusal from Zara. I wonder if you could advise they in the store, and HQ's product department are refusing, the return based on my washing of the garment because their policy states, this somewhere, not on the website, the item shrank have holes in it after lightly wearing and handwashing per instructions once. Oh, no. I think this violates fit for purpose standards and the trade description of clothing clothing should be worn more than once. Be able to be washed per instruction without issue. I believe this is a faulty item yet they claim it has nothing to do with faulty manufacturing. I have never returned as our item washed before and purchase a lot from them. So I love your perspective on clothing fit for purpose. When design or quality is at fault. The person may only know it's faulty when they use the item. I know you've covered a lot re ethics of returns, and that has made me much more mindful about purchasing to thank you best to you. And I can't wait to chew the cut, again, left you both national. The stink so bad. Right. Especially if she. So it was a hand wash garment that she had washed right yet said hand wash. And she did it pearly instructions. I'm assuming let it air dry, and I feel like everyone has had this experience once in their life where they buy something and they wash it and it gets messed up and they're like, well, fuck me they won't take it back. Now, I think you have a case with this. Like I used to work at a store, where someone bought a garment, and she threw it in the washing machine and she brought back. She said, hey, this didn't hold up the instructions on it, where like to hand wash it and the garment I understood why there were hand wash because it was a delicate garment I personally ended up taking that return because she was a monster. But. But I think it was her foots, because she didn't follow there's reasons why there's instructions existed for this particular item. She hand wash at it could even take a hand washing. The only other thing is like did you stick it in the dryer? That might be. That makes things a little tougher. I don't know what to tell you to do, though. I think you're in the right. I don't know what to tell you. What do I wonder if there are any other retail managers or retail supply, shame people who would have an opinion on, if there is an argument here and the best way to make it from what I recall about clothing tags. I forget where even learn this from. But basically clothing manufacturers are, are only required to provide a one way for you to wash garment like one suggested method of washing and usually it's like the safest bet for you to wash that item for it. Not to get messed up on the first wash right in my mind. If you wear something you wash it once and clearly it shrinks, more than like two or three percent or just falls apart like the stores, take it back. I mean, I think I might do a cost benefit analysis of how much more time to put into this because. How much of your life, do you want to pour into solving this problem and is it worth that? So, I would think about how much garment cost and then, like, how much money you would like to make our and be like five make fifteen dollars an hour to. I wanna put thirty more dollars into trying to solve this with a company because it may make sense may be worth it, but your time might be more worse. Try to make this right with the company, which is unfortunate because I think you're right. It's experiences like this that lead people to hold grudges which this year. Revenge have that grudge that's fine with me. I just came to the realization that I'm slithering I'm fine with it. Oh, oh my goodness. I came to this realization this weekend at once donned on me something clicked in my life. I was like I accept this about myself. I am Letheren way we go back, what happened this weekend to make you realize yours Letheren, please do tell oh. It will be part of a one good thing. Okay. I will hold questions until further notice. Thank you. I yield my time. Well, I can't possibly freed our last letter this week because I need, we need to go to one thing. So I can find out. So I'll hold that one. Till next week cliffhanger this week, if you'd like to get in touch with us, go to pop fashion, podcast dot com. They can write us a letter. You can listen to past episodes, good, esta Graham pop fashion podcast, people are funny there. It's fun. Come join us or go to Twitter at just pop fashion. Lisa. What is your one good thing this week? I might have a controversial one good thing this week. Here we go. My one good thing is figuring out what you don't want. Well, that's a good thing. Yeah. As you may know I spent an entire seven days in New York last week, and I was telling karnal little bit before the show that it was the first time that I traveled to New York, where I was doing the majority of my traveling about town during business hours. I was commuting in the morning with everyone else meeting in the evening with everyone fighting my way through Times Square to get to my office. And there had been this little part of me in the past few weeks. That was like all should I have moved to New York? Should I have taken this chance, take my big media job, and go to New York and live with my best friend again? And just like have a great New York time. And that on my first day going to the office traipsing through Times Square. Elbowing bootleg elmo's out of the way. Hit me every time I thought that I don't want this. I've been correct. Yeah. You knew all of my hesitations about moving to New York are correct. It is a wonderful place to visit. But if I had to live there and commute every day to work on the train, I think I would lose my marbles about three weeks in it was just a moment of clarity for me that as much as I try to push it out of the way and to think, to myself. Oh, like be open to pass abilities. There is value in knowing what you absolutely do not want granted. That's all your office being Times Square is a little extra that is some like crazy, New York experience. I can't believe that they're there. It was so extra like I'm not ready to be in Times Square before good morning. America is over like. Oh, I cannot. So you'll occasionally have meetings there, I'm assuming that you'll go up every now and then I'll be there from time to time. And you know, I have an ax for those times. Wow, your body is just like I reject this like I'm used to the sunshine. Now my hobbies like the sun may be here. But those were are you. Just it's just not my style. And it is feels really deep to know that my therapist is going to be really proud of me this week. Oh, that's great. You figured it out, girl. I figured it out myself. I didn't need him to walk me through it. And clearly, I'm cured. I can leave. I'll keep my forty dollars. Visit. Karn. What is your thing? The movie book smart. It's so good. I really enjoyed at I don't there's been lots of chatter chatter on social media about this movie. I saw it on Saturday. And it's funny, but I wasn't prepared for how vulnerable it is very vulnerable movie. And I really enjoyed that part about it. It's not my favorite movie ever. But it's surprised me and just how open it was about things, and I did love the main friendship. This is like we're this lizard, part comes in. This is not a spoiler. It's just this teeny little line in the movie where one of the main character says that she's a slither and, and it did a dawn on me, right? Then took there's a delay delay by about twenty four hours and I was walking with navene, and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm a slew the rid and Wien turned being said, yes, yes, he will. Okay. I got this. I got this luck I understand this part of my life. I get it. I enjoyed so much about a new type of female friendship dynamic was playing out in a great way. And the, the way I saw best represented as there's two times in the movies where they try on clothes, and both of the girls are talking about how beautiful the other person is, and I was like that is so refreshing to see that in a movie because usually the dynamic is about breaking each other down when it comes to close or like my, but looks like this boobs like like this, and it's negative self talk. But this these moments of these women being like you are so beautiful. I can't even look at you. You are so beautiful. I can't breathe right now that dynamic was just so cool to see on screen at mamy so happy to be, like, the, the movies good. But this moment, definitely got it right. Got it right. It was so fun to watch. That was my one thing. I'm so happy to see you. You enjoying a film about team relationships more than lady bird. I hated that movie. Which I just needed to like grind him a little bit because there was so long that if I only knew one thing about you, it would be how much you hated lady bird with, like the fire it's thousand sons, and that was the f- like I related to so much. I also feel like I would relate to book smart and you really enjoyed it. So there is hope for team relationship. Dead coming of age movies that currencies. I'll of course, of course. I know a lot of people enjoyed ladybird. The I am in the minority. I understand this about myself, so it's okay if you disagree with me, totally fine. One hundred percent it should look when Carne likes and movie it's worth paying attention is what I'm saying. I usually like once that are fun. Life is so full of enough BS. You don't need it to be entertained by it. I wanna see something fund makes a laugh. So did you see John wick this weekend to? Oh, no. I was warned against back, which is supposed to be great, but it's supposed to be a little too much for the via Lancia. Yeah. Okay. Good. Did you see that one this weekend? Now because I haven't seen the first two yet. Oh, yes. Let me tell you Michael. And I are like having a, a war about in the way that couples like we'll just look at each other like, oh my God, real issue hasn't seen that movie. Yeah. So he wants to set me straight, like, really quickly. But I think he went, I think Huntley, while recording this he is at the movies alone because he's like, I'm seeing it in the theater before people ruin it on the internet him. That's like a grumpy old man thing to say but I love it because I agree with it is the grumpiest almost thirty year old. So it is one hundred per that accurate. Yeah. You guys are so beautiful hurts for me to look at you. I just can't stand it right now you're just so beautiful. And you'll be even more beautiful next week. When we talk to you again by. Love you. Buy.
Ep 175: How Beauty Companies Build Their Brands & Stores
"Hello Hi welcome to ask our back in our regularly scheduled old seats on Jazz. I'm just I'm back. I'm back with my back against the wall. Mafioso feels better here. I like to have like a whole lay of how could you we're back to the door. That would make me crazy. I don't know I'm used to this fungus way. it's all good thanks. How are you feeling Mama to be feeling great. You're great. Thank you just very very thirsty. Oh Okay I see for that beauty knowledge. We've got an awesome. Show an awesome show today. We're talking about ready fall florals. I don't know if you guys a follow me personally on instagram. I do a lot of fragrance content and like I didn't realize allies it it. I've just been feeling florals like over and over and over again that there's something in the air then we're GonNa talk about your Girl v Victoria Beckham she finally Lee dropped her her new beauty line her makeup line and it's her own our girl. It's your girl. If I remember I you were friends with her at that event and I did take a picture of the two of view. It's you saw that photo somewhere my phone. Oh my God we'll do a flat not talk to her. I don't know but it seems like you to hit it off like she. She was like literally just Iraq doc with Jazz and all the other editors picture and shoot she this great white shirt on all my God okay remember so and then our guest okay. I'm excited about our guest. Christopher skinner the founder of schoolhouse. This is like a secret sauce episode. This is the beauty beauty job that you might not know about he's going to peel back the curtain and and let us know what goes on behind the scenes with beauty brands how they get marketed and what I'm really interested in is how they get sold in retail like that experience that you have in retail l. This is the guy that makes that for all the other brands more or less. He's great. He's tastic. Okay you ready to get started. Let's do hey guys. Here's a question when's the last time you washed your pillowcase. Oh case Yikes. I know gross okay. If you guys pause to think maybe it's been a little bit. You need a still von pillowcase. Your pillow case is basically a breeding ground for bacteria. Sorry and the cell phone pillow cases are woven with natural silver that illuminates that acne causing bacteria to promote clear skin and also their blended with before you think it's like hard metallic their blended with subpoena cotton which as you know as the softest most comfy cotton you can find so surprised they're super soft and silky like a regular sheet. You would have no idea there was silver in and there and then I mean I'm not saying washing less often but she can cause. They're silver yeah. It's just like a nice you know gives you peace of mind it does and Sylvan is giving our listeners twenty percent off just visit Silvana home dot com. That's L. V. O. N. Home Dot Com and enter the Promo Code Fat Mascara. That's twenty percent off its Sylvan home dot com with the Code Fat Mascara. Hey guys it's jess okay big news. Sephora beauty insider community. Have you checked it out yet. Okay so I've discovered it and I've gone into an absolute like rabbit hole of chatting with other people checking up people's look. CD You can take a picture and upload your your own is a very exciting even chat with brands. Get exclusive invites to events. I mean this is a beauty wonderland online. I cannot believe I didn't discover it sooner. Sooner so do yourself a favor if you're crazy about beauty or even if you're a beauty newby head over to Sephora dot com slash community you can get started in that. PD insider community today and I will see you there so I I was having a little meeting with Frederic Malle as you do as one does you know he's the I forgot what he likes to himself. He's a fragrance creator. He works with all the best perfumers to let them do whatever the hell the librarian or use this word before. We're talking a conductor of all of the different. Yes for fewer. We were talking about how some brands Iran are trying to go younger with their fragrances and they do it wrong and he's like honestly cool young girls. They want the heritage thing and we're like well. You know what is that in perfume. It's flowers Lauer's. Lake flowers got a weird old fussy connotation a couple years ago look in early. August like you'd never would say like I'm wearing a floral no it was all those kind of they call them like Oz Oz Ozanich fragrances or as onic. OPON icy yeah they kind of like water air and now and then you'd it had a moment big this tall skin sense. Oh Yeah Muskie's Incense Charles were not really wearing florals I think so but everything's everything's changing this fall. There are so many florals launching but they're not like they're not basic or grandmotherly like so many good ones so I wanted to talk about this. What's what's one that has captivated you get to start. You get to start okay but I might say the same one as you a sorry. That's okay so on overlap it was Frederick's. It was rose rose and queer. I never I never had leather in French. Qua- quizzes E. U. I R. Right once again Jenny Jess what turned the French for you on a beauty podcast tests French people will give us and and write it phonetically. Basically it's Rosen leather but it's queer eye when he says it's okay so this is a rose fragrance but like no other rose fragrance. I've ever smelled because it's sort of Hugh they reconstituted arose with synthetics in this way that plays up the peppery greenness of the Rose and they threw in some leather to make it bad ass and you put it on and at first if you want to try it in the store give it a minute league is is a big fragrance to start not like there's a big sillage behind you insp- but it just it's different than something you've smelled but the dry down on this one. It's just gorgeous ones. It sinks into my skin. I'm really into that one. What are you okay so I to emceeing these floors. Everywhere Nour's has a brand new fragrance agrements called audacious. Yes that's all about like a big fat. Floral and ours is kind of like the cool girl brand you know but they they have like sandalwood but mix. Tr Flower which is I want to say they said this is their first fragrance but my immediately came to mind was the body glow of the tr our Tehran sorry. I'm a teacher Dina I believe of it's like a white tropical. It's a very strong in a good way. It feels like you walked into some sexy sexy garden and you're like an island. Probably you know exactly france-soir is is private. has actually thing by the way yes the and cry. White White Right Frangipani which is another beautiful white flour with that like South Pacific vibe now one that I have been enjoying is. I just got the new Tom Ford drop. It's called met metallic metallic Mattel okay. The bottle is like metabolic. It is Meta League. and it's got like what I love about. This one is if you're someone that you feel like in two minds like you want something that feels more like a skin sent like I don't WanNa be too obtrusive like this is not that knock your socks off boom wearing a white floral ly dynasty Nour's ars or the Frederic Malle right this has it starts out with florals and has a lot of white florals which I really like has heliotrope Leo trope. It has yes when we say white florals in case. You're a beauty newbie yeah. This is like a perfumer term for Gardenia. Tuba rose I might be and what's when you just said Heliotrope I think heliotrope. I think that's a white flour. They're like very true. Floral sense that are very heavy right to you said to like bill kind of knock. Tuck your socks off and they really are just unapologetically little Alex sometimes yeah glamorous. Okay Sam Moore. Yes you cannot be a wallflower and think you're going to wear a white with guard. You are Dina to okay. I'm like I made me big white florals yes but this is tempered with a certain coziness. Yes it has like an umbrella in it. Which I think is just another word for amber it. Has It's one that smells like creamy. It smells awesome woody notes and then drives down to something that just really invalids you almost like I don't WanNa use the word Kashmir because everyone associated that with Donna Karen Kashmir missed I but it is kind of that like I wish the motion she's making. There's circular hug going on the woman running for president. Marianne Williamson circles does invalid who good energy and light and love the show and so it's really it. It's a floral. I think if you're not quite ready to go whole Hog Stiletto Lake Flora Yeah we gave a lot of fall ones. I WANNA wrap it out with wrap it up with one more that actually didn't come out fault came out earlier but you were wearing it the other day and I stopped. Oh and it was what is that. How could I not mention. I don't know why don't you mention it. Okay it's called. It's by chloe and it's called no mad and I remember you and I were both in that like a meeting together. We learn about the new khloe fragrance. This is a little wild. Let's not brand. Dan Brand new but it was like for them more. Why would like you know the original chloe's very rose very sweet very lights sweeter floor goody goody. You know this eat more of like it was a girl out in the desert on a motorcycle ads correctly because I was feeling she was it was like a cool girl. it has is this is why. I think that you liked it. It has FRISIA and we never really slow Frisia willow not since like maybe bath and body works back in the day right and that's a different. I'm not dissing seeing it but it's a different thing when you're getting it in a splash versus when you know the great minds that you know Khloe and cody are coming out with something that is really a very fine fragrance Frisia so you have your region more delicate than the other florals were yeah yeah and then it also has oak moss which makes it a little. I think thing that commercial I know they weren't being literal but a little more dusty a little more raw little moorlands blowing the Moroccan yeah yeah you you can. I'm sure like they sell this. This is quite get Sephora. You have to try and it's also kind of fresh smell. Say That and Tom Ford or like your baby steps into the yells and then and you can sort of graduate to the Frederick and then go and go all in with the yeah yeah. Are you guys into floors. Let us know what your favorite floral. Fragrances are police. TM US thanks bye. If you remember many episodes ago we talked about the Victoria Tori Beckham we talked some skin care she did once yeah remember that skin-care vaguely and then we talked about her line for Estee Lauder very well done collaboration. I think the skin care was in another country but the you know we were crazy about the Victoria Beckham for Estee Lauder collection from about two two years ago right yeah. I was like this is a woman who knows makeup yeah and I still have a little stub of one of those pencils. Well both Jeninites separately had private appointments now Jimmy Victoria Begnaud Nobo- went to her place. Oh we were talking about yeah. We were talking the we met her at the Estee Lauder launch but for this launch yeah we met with one of the creators of the products one of the creators of the products Sarah Creole years. She walked us through the line. We had to keep tip top secret until now okay. It's dropped so I brought a lot of the products here today to talk about Shall we call this like the the drop to Drop A. Are you making New York. Are you guys. It's your favorite fat. Mascara segment the drive to what do you think what do you think of the line creamy delicious. The textures are phenomenal already with is right so there's all is yeah. I do think it's interesting that she came out with something that she you know. I like it when a brand feels clear what think Torii backup. I'm not thinking of a red lip. I'm not thinking of like not anymore like a Tan bronze until I die HOAGIES Hackley her friend Charlotte so these products are creamy everything his smudge abol the cajal liner is we're going to talk about that and my God. I wish you could see. I wish you could feel this. It is like butter. It's like how it sensual it sent. Shaw essential and sexual an pencil the David Mallett scout massage. Oh thrall go on sensual eventual eyeliner eyeliner the component trie like this kind of it's a it's a fake corn. Don't worry I too was like it's not real horn right. It's a fake horn but it has the heft heft and the sophistication of real horn. Here is the coolest thing I just WanNa touch on this positive for a second. There is no plastic used in this line. I don't know how they did. Oh Yeah Yeah. This was my favorite thing about every palate even the is that a cream shadow in a pot it's like many last and recyclable materials but yet feels very rich and I said are you telling me I could take this apart and recycle it and she said absolutely but you're not going to because honestly this little. I shadow compacts credit. Cards is yeah you could put your debit card plastic. Honestly it's so well done. It's really well done. I know that they're making a big push with this line for clean the cardboard but it just doesn't I don't lead with the clean lead with the Glenmore the Glenmore and the just the texture so one thing that I was quite inspired by as these eye shadows which you said there cream but there I understand why there are cream their powdery thing that has such such as creamy fit like it's. It's so easy to blend on my bed so I'll go when she Sarah is showing me the products that Victoria herself uses says I it was so rich and dramatic on the I and I thought what am I doing that. I feel like this is inspired. Me You know I know you put on our instagram the other day AH shadow she try. I know that this is like your baby. Step your foray back into shadow as an adult but for me I'd like eye shadow but I like the boring wearing colors so I really want to step it up and I wanNA show up with like this is what vp does all the time she wears a Shimmery gunmetal shadow or like arrives at out to the corners fabulous. I think you know what's fabulous about Victoria. Beckham issues unapologetically glamorous. I know I just had to be careful about catching my face because I feel like if I do. I shadow look worried. It's going to transfer because I'm such a Klutz but if I'm GonNa try it definitely try. It'd be prime it and then maybe what I'm GonNa do. I and I want you guys to see these. If you try them. Please tell us how you're using them a smudge brush and like just pack into the lash line probably have to prime so it doesn't the lid luster yeah the ones that are the larders yeah and I don't expect it to I might turn off the draw. When since I'm like pregnant you're like is up here uh-huh seriously. It's like the big earings when you've gained. He's at the belly. I want everything up and I wanted to appoint of distraction. When will this will do it. It's a great line. I think she did it well. I'm really excited to see what composers like what comes next because they feel like it's very thought out so if she did is she did it well. What are we going to get next. I like the idea like remember Pat McGrath. She started out with like to start with is I think she started with is litter and that organiser yeah yeah yeah those disappeared real quick so not exactly the most environmentally friendly commits learning inning. It's all a learning it so Victoria Beckham beauty out now. Give it a try if you see just around. She's she is on her is is on my eyes and let me know what you think of the new look. I'll put mine on our instagram to its sponsor appreciation time. I'm Jen Jess. Let's talk about Tasha Hasha so you guys you. You Must Natacha these are time time-tested Japanese beauty rituals. They're cleaned formulas or anchored in Japanese green tea rice and algae such beautiful. It's really beautiful. It's your favorite products. I love Camelia. Cleansing oil takes up all my makeup grime. I'm into the dewey skin cream and guess what what they're going to give you guys. A free travel sized dewey skin cream with orders. There's of seventy five dollars or more just go to touch dot com and use the code fat. Mascara and you'll get free dewey skin cream with the seventy five dollar order. Thank you Tasha very nice. Hey guys it's just from fat Mascara here. I am so happy that we're heading into fall not only do I love the Chris cold weather but I'm all about fall all close bring on the leopard prints. Bring on those yummy autumnal colors. I am here for it but I am not going to be spending my whole savings on a brand new wardrobe. I'm just going to sign sign up for our Dash Haberdasher. Lets you create a virtual closet and then you can select three items at a time and they'll send you the clothes he can run them as often as you like swap swap them in and out and the whole thing's only fifty nine dollars plus. If you fall in love with something you can buy it for a discounted price which is really nice so head over to hammer dash dot com sign up today and there are no commitments and you can cancel at any time but this is a really different kind suited for us we are here with. Christopher skinner the founder of Schoolhouse Schoolhouse Agency that specializes in beauty and they handle everything from strategy to design to create a production to the environmental design. They really do it all so schoolhouses worked with mega brands like Pat McGrath. Can you get pat on our podcast. They put a call into mother locks Yvonne Yvonne Kevin Kwan loads more and full disclosure guys. He's also my really good friend. All welcome Krill really thanks for having me. I'm so happy you're here because I've been able to like you know admiring what you do and like seeing what you do from the start but I even ask you questions like about your business because it's so cool that you're really bringing a lot of the brands and products to life in a way that you know consumer boomer see and it just this kind of like a hidden industry but you're kind of like the wizard behind yeah when I always like Oh. We worked with schoolhouse a quite a few You guys are really hot right now but you started this company when I think people are GonNa die to note. When you're in your twenties yes late twenties late twenties? I love the caveat yes so just take us back a little bit. What did you do before starting this mega company before your thirtieth birthday okay so so I think we have to go back back back because I fell in love with beauty like growing up in the south going to ECKERD's getting like you know poor strips and all of that stuff I just like became obsessed with it was doing theater and ended up needing to make an extra like little bit of money and got a job at Sephora and Sephora was like five or six years in the US so it had like red carpets that we had to vacuum every night eight cases where make it gets so dirty yes and do you remember so before when they came in the US everyone beauty. Oh Jeez okay. This is a Sephora. Oh Gee we had to wear white gloves remember. This is the leave. It was one glove. Yes it was one white glove and that's how you would present product. I mean this is like I Love I absolutely love. This is kind of Mickey Mouse Slash Michael Jackson. I know very different. Sephora I mean and you know like a very very French and and I absolutely love it and I was you know kind of gave over my life to it but I was was like stocking shelves like cleaning and then they moved me to New York because they didn't know what else to do with me. In Georgia and I ended up leaving I spacing hey apothecary. Which is where I met Jess. Do you know that I didn't realize that you came to New York with Sephora realized that like a store manager at that point now I because because I never was great at sales like I was always like making up windows and like dressing the store cool but but like visual merchandising store design sewer experience. This was like not anything anyone talked about like it's not like Chris went to school for visual merchandising and you just you just frigging God in did it before yeah it took in New York and it took them and but again like store experience was nothing like it is now and they didn't know what to do with me so I left for spacing K. when it was coming to the the US was here that took me to London which is where I met you US and then before school house I was at fresh overseeing global design. Zayn inexperienced job at fresh fresh was I mean fresh is like has a special place in my heart. It's ex boyfriend girlfriend that you stalk on instagram. Even no you know with them anymore. but it was a huge you know it was when we grew at. Sephora we launched in Asia rerouted all of our stores in the US we launch launch back into Europe. It was a huge push for the brand and and honestly it was still very entrepreneurial like it. It was myself. Levin Lena a few other kind of VP's trying and do it all now it's totally different and so we really you know that was what kind of got me to a place where I had relationships and could feel like I could could start something on my own and and survive so when you were at fresh where you visual merchandising like building out stores yes so so did you put the sinks in the stores. Yes it's all that was pretty novel. Bull Yeah and those those actually the. I think that we found for fresh. That's in Union Square was actually in an old boy scouts like a bathroom kind of changing space and it's actually from London we've fluid over from London and that's what's in Union Square. Go by. That's that's it's words from very fabulous so now you're not just doing store. Experience schoolhouse does a lot of stuff on your website. It says you do brand re positioning and brand refresh. We wanted to talk talk about this because we feel like a lot of people just think. Oh you know Pat McGrath dude ourself urban decay as like. Let's build our little thing where all the testers are going to be but really. They're coming mean to people like you so. Let's let's talk about. Can you mean example of a brand. You've worked with where you've held them. Refresh yeah of course well. I mean I think like ultimately what we do. Every day is just kind of bring out stories from founders from brands. we bring them out through campaigns. We bring them out through social. We bring them out through stores and so it's really just kind of writing the book of that brand in all of the execution that we do and so. I think a great example and one that you know is super closest Cabinet Kwan. You know amazing makeup artist what was so special about. Kevin is that he we had this ability to touch pros and non pros alike you know he would could really speak to anyone and there's incredible stories about him being on the street showing someone how to do a perfect lipper perfect is in so when. Kevin passed away the brand sort of lost that Muzak needed for a little bit yeah and so some people didn't even know that who he was or that that he passed away yeah and so we see that's really a great opportunity. Where you go in and say okay we will not you now create this brand to hold onto the past? We're going to sort of take the energy that Kevin brought every day and manifest for the future and so that is kind of it's not so much or reposition. It's just kind of a rearticulating of the same thing but for today's customer with that involve making new products or suggesting to the company. Maybe you should should make this product. Yeah I mean I think it's I think the best projects that we do. It's allowing people to think a little differently. You know even founders. I think it's hard as a founder myself to kind of get out what your vision is and you sort of need people around you that can understand it and sort of say back to you and so that's what we do a law. You know we sort of a therapist. I really honestly because you don't really see. I feel that way at times to like you. Don't see yourself. Even even you know how it's even a I don't know if I'm being to Canada but like with our podcast like I'm always asking for people for feedback or what do you think of this or you know because because we're in it it's so hard to see how other bird's eye view exactly and I I do think you should not everything should be like. Oh how other people view me but you still need to know kind of what you're seeing off edgy and every that my mom's friend and I think beauty as incredible as it is to be beauty right now now. It's it's a very antiquated industry. You know it's how do you mean it. You know I think it's rested on its laurels for a really long time. We've had key players driving industry for for many years and we got a little safe. You know we had a launch on January. We had a launch in March launch and September whereas now paddle on something on a random Tuesday and it's a drop everyone goes crazy. I mean that kind of mentality is very new for this industry and that's kind of the exciting part of it in the scary part of it you you know we're sort of in this revolution time so let me talk to you about how the process this is really big picture and awesome and abstract but like okay. Let's say you meet with the founder and they're like. I don't know look tired and I know you guys do way more than the look but you know what does that process like Ju Backpedal and state will who are you. Do you make mood boards. What what is it like to work with schoolhouse yeah yeah. I mean it's a lot of listening I mean I think the best ideas is for brand building. Come out of the soul of that brand. I think beauty often looks elsewhere for inspiration. You know we hear a lot of All these people are doing that and these people are doing that. We have to do that again. I mean like let's be honest about the Fanta- launch with foundation now everyone's launching with fifty shades you know that it's it's this sort of metoo usage but yes yes the following verses the leading and and I think that's it. It's it's challenging aging because retailer sort of set it up that way. You know you have the big. Sephora an old tows that you know you go in and it's ten things that are new and every month you go in in something new so there is a challenge that the industry creates for itself in a way but we try to spend a lot of time really talking to that brand versus versus looking outside of the brand for inspiration because a lot of it is baked in either the brand and the person you know in one of the founding impulses that just kind of has to be rubbed in a new way to resonate again who should do like image consulting to feel like this is all very you know the this whole conversation is. It's not just about beauty. It's about like okay who are you and what are you trying to say. so when I think about visuals and and you know how a brand manifest our cultures become so much more visual especially because of instagram and beauty everything in agendas showed me earlier before the podcast a sunscreen scream that she is that we're talking about. No solid striped okay so yes. She showed me the solid and striped sunscreen. It's so it's made for instagram a lot of the skin care right now in a you can't do this kind of European spa line. You know just little tiny print. Everything is Punchy Punchy Punchy. What are the big trends that you're you're seeing well. It's funny because it really depends what of like region you're looking at. because what we're finding is we're doing a lot of work with brands and being born and bred in China and in actually in China that European look. That's not popular in North America is actually what people are after finally want this sort sort of scaled back minimalistic because as a culture they see that as luxury you know that's because there are you know learning from the European way of doing things in in North America. We've sort of like blown all of that up and it's just total maximalism everywhere you go and so it's interesting to see the waves of change and and I zinc you know as our own culture like we're going to start to find that will back away. Yes Sir anything you and you have brand founders in your office at the like we want to maybe bring some products. They like like we're thinking neon alphabetical and Malaysia. What trends are you Kinda like all right. We think moving them away. Yeah I mean I think I mean. The pink. Thing is like the elephant in the room. I mean yeah I mean. It's it's gotten out of hand. You know even for us. I mean we find ourselves like drawn to it in the work that we're doing and then we're like shooting into. Thanks I know I remember. We tried to make Gen Z. Yellow happen. Oh that never happened on that. Blush Pink and we're all trying to change the tone like no. Oh it's page. It's rose gold. No it's it's definitely you know the millennial. The has to go overdone when anything else that you're just like can we. I'm not I mean I think when you look at all the logo redesigns and it's just Saint Laurent Balenciaga. It's interesting because you you you. You find that sort of like redone redesign happening everywhere yeah okay. Let's so that's what we're talking about brands and what they look like on instagram. There's a lot of talk right now about in-store in store experience it takes a lot of people to get people into a store to experience beauty first hand especially with all these direct to consumer brands so retail isn't dead obviously obviously because your your agency exist. Can you tell us the nuts and bolts of it like do you actually build shelves and display units or like. What are you doing in store to make a brand. Come alive yeah. I mean I think there is a lot of heavy lifting on brands today to get people off their asses and into a store and as much as online you think or yeah relevant if they're not direct to consumer yeah if exactly and I think the the biggest thing that we we tried to do sort of say. Why is this as a destination you know why is someone going to seek this space out and then potentially comeback again and ultimately like each brand has to sort of figure hear that out on its own but that's really where we start? I mean what I what I've started saying. All of these meetings is no one's GonNa. Come back to look at your beautifully designed table like they're not come back. They're gonNA come back because they met surely and surely gave them an amazing experience or they got to do this crazy thing that they want to bring their friends and do with their friends or you know. They were captured in a way that they. WanNa share with their mother father. You know the design aspect and the Peter Marino approach where it's just like make the most expensive some beautiful store out. There and people looks like a leather motorcycle. Dude okay might know this one that that I it no one's shock-and-awe shock-and-awe in terms of like look how much we spent on this now which I think like you now. You see these pop ups or you. Just literally can't spend that amount of money doing it. Well like what's the the store experience. We're like. That's cool. I mean I think obviously the glossies are doing it while because they're they're reinventing their brand based upon location you know amount. Miami looks so different from New York look so different from La but at the same time there's a through line and there's like a sense of community that they're creating their and you know I think the brands is that allow that flexibility you know that Old Paradigm of luxury equals consistency and brand building is kind of falling apart and it's more about luxury as the personalization not just like you're getting something monogrammed but it's the personalization of that experience for you where you're at I want to e stop the other in the upper west side and they were saying how I've I've been to like you know handful use up stores in my life but they were saying how they're all adopted to the location that they're in. That was pretty cool. I mean you saw is it is definitely east. We've I've not worked with them nor had the opportunity but you know that that's an interesting one because from a design Zayn perspective they really reinvented every time but when you get in there there's really not a lot happening. I mean you kind of have to be like a design snob to WANNA go there. Dark clubby yeah like experience really have never not had a nice experience in retail I I have. I just don't talk about them but I I really. I don't know I think what you're saying before like they had a great conversation with suzy or whatever her name was and I know that you you guys aren't like staffers but I think so much about it is like the staff. Oh my it's the training I will never forget. Interrupts your flow. I Echo Joe Genaro village all of this on the podcast so if I have I apologize the best retail experience I ever had was in. SELFRIDGE's and I wasn't really wearing a lot of makeup. I had like a little bit of makeup and this was crowded this when the glittering jumps in front of me like a bandit like scary and she's like you are are gorgeous but in the sense awful okay like I was not offended she was like I really think that if we cover you know I can help you with those circles. She goes because your green eyes are amazing so it was a bit of a Neg- but it was also like shit. How does she have to help me. I bought like a hundred dollars worth lemass KWA cosmetics that day. I was just like killing time because it was like I felt like she targeted something. She saw something is not right. Ain't you guys are looking at me like this one no. I I mean and she is she. Put me in her chair and it was just like I needed a break from the world. I needed to be like spoken to. I had that exact not without when Moscow but I had the exact. Same thing happened to me recently at Neiman Marcus. I said Hudson yards woman her name. Is Nora even remember her name. Her name is North snaky and she worked. She literally worked off this tiny little elements. Lummus Tester Unit and I walked by and she goes. You're not toning. You're not toning sit in my chair. You're not toning you you and I are toning today and so and she has her. I mean Nora was like in my boyfriend was there and he was like you are toning something about. Ah Thirty but then she's talking to us. Come on the show you the spa then she shows this. I've spent like an hour and a half but you can't go train every employee who works in the ninety S. We can't do that but we do think about the culture sure of the store when we're working with them when we work with Luxy ton- we kind of helped create like a flagship concept and then we did a few of them not the same idea but differentiated appreciated and the first thing we said was look. We're going to build a beautiful store. It's going to being bring provence to life but we have to change the store culture because you're walking working in first of all everyone's in black like who walks on prevents like in all black off and prevents like a place where you go to like escape and have of like relaxation and casual so like golden light yeah golden a so like that has to come through culture like we have to make people feel like they've walked into into a cafe. That's been here two hundred years. Would you like come up with guidelines. Four stores like employees should wear this and when they greet they don't say hello. How May I help you they say. How are you doing in casual so yeah? I mean if source have like when you get a new retail job. Are you going to get a list of like. Here's how you greet people. Here's what you wear. Oh absolutely I mean what is it called called the brand guidelines. I mean it's like a retail guideline. It's it's an every store has their own kind of Lingam sure I'm not. I'm not sure if you've talked about like the Sephora Lingo is all theatrical like they called her displays Gondolas Gondolas all the all the staff member called cast the floor is called a stage like every store so you learned that in that process but some brands aren't as like adapt to you know they're just again like looking everywhere to l. saying okay everyone and retailers black will just do the same versus saying like how can we allow this uniform this expression bring the brand life. You're talking about like communication and and with that comes the sounds you know little stodgy dodgy like tone of voice brand tone of voice what is that I was just chatting with some people the other day and they all worked at different brands and they were saying like damn like glossier dropping glossy again but they got it right because they spoke to people in a way that like a brand wasn't speaking to them before hey do gray a and b. What other brands do you feel like. You really liked their voice so I think this is a great topic. beings we have a podcast uh-huh because writers this is really like to me is is where. I can hook into a bit more. I can't build store in China but like yeah I mean I the sort of concept of like the real girl the race and I mean we thankfully it subsided but we've heard that so much like we want to be the real girl we wanNA talk to her. That's all we heard first of all actually as an aside we have like an industry have to stop talking about our consumers consumers as her like. It's just gotten so out of hand those correct your clients now but I I try you know at least in the verbiage that we we use when we talk about consumers then they so we have to talk to talk about them as them as they I mean male beauty men's beauty men as part of beauty the you know they're the audience is wider. It's greater it's a bigger even beyond just and female and so I think as an industry we have to start thinking thinking that way setting that precedent in trend for heritage brand for new brands but as an aside going back to the tone of voice I mean each each brand has to really figure out and find out where that comes to play a great example one of our first clients Dr Dennis Gross Skin Care. I mean one of my favorite product doc lines out there but when we met with them it was during the rise of like Sunday Riley Drunk Caliphate Glossy and you know they're like well shit like Dennis and this is not a real girl play like what are we going to do and so funny and so we had that challenge and right now we're seeing thing is like pendulum swing back where all of a sudden if you had great product you weren't good enough you know and so these clinical brands were suffering because they're zero like how are we cool. How are we hit like can use neon to and so we really worked sort of figure out like we'll dennis like you talk to people every single day so you have this ability to take your research and real life and bring it together and that's where his voice came from and it's not you know highbrow marketing speak. It's it's his his speak but it's his voice so each brand has to figure that out and when you say voice that means both the words you read on their website and the words read on the package right. I mean obviously what what else oh what I mean. When you think about voice and you know now if you start reading copy everywhere there's the voice and then there's the tone the voice is the brand you know this is? My voice is is Chris Skinner's voice but my tone will change if I'm being serious playful if I've had ten drinks if I've had no drinks and so the same is for a brand Chris Chris can change back in twenty brands voice changes like if you read back pack for a brand versus instagram captions Asians it should feel like the same brand totally different tone because it's different situation got it that makes that's really interesting speaking of switching based on where you are you mentioned. China and I know you do work internationally. What have you found her. Some of the differences in the way people buy and shop for beauty in different countries. Oh my God the Social Channels Kicked Hawk Doc in China is the craziest thing I have experienced and we're working with a cool brand that I could talk about called perfect diary. It's actually one of the growing the one of the top growing brands local to China selling to Chinese customers so they you know there are people out there that are representing them has influencers in varying regions but what's what's interesting about. China is they have different social channels depending upon the region of which you live your mourn you grow up Etcetera Audra and then there's different influencers for those different regions so you can be like a tier one city influence or you can be a tier two city influence her that kind of level of community connection action tearing is really interesting. Wait till like waybill which is like Chinese twitter. Whatever is different than tick tock like you would have would be on talk and justice in a different city and she'd be on like we've? Oh Oh yeah I mean th channel sort of trend in different in different places and what about like in Europe and other places around the world. Is there anything that stands out she was like Oh my God the beauty customer in Russia you have. I'm learning a lot about the beauty customer in India right now she she he they them and you know there's definitely a lot of desire for outrageous experience like outrageous experience and beauty arranges experience agreeance and marketing. It's kind of like there's a daring quality for brands to be super disruptive and the more disruptive you are the more impact you make and the more successful return brand. That's been really disruptive India or like a type of thing that they might just go nuts over yeah so I i. I know this brand called Mike Lamb. They did this crazy launch where they got the number one influence her and they staged this fake arrest arrest of this huge influencer basically had the number one. Paparazzi on site to capture it posted on their channels then they had the influence or go quiet for day all of their people and then they released their marketing campaign which was all through basically like jail photos news of this influence area staffer. Do that look gorgeous. No matter where you are I mean and so you think about stuff like that helped altitude too but you know it was like number nineteen on twitter internationally. It was number one in India. I mean it was so disruptive and it just created energy the and that is what the feed off. I mean need my lamb. That name probably wouldn't fly in the United States under Kendall. Jenner has like her mom say something about you know my daughter struggled and then it was like Tasmania like teasing coulter came for them yeah so I think sticking your neck out. Here is riskier yeah yeah because we're more litigious or something but but it's exciting to see him as an agency. You're like hell. Ya are has been raised school. How disruption level is like outrageous and of course everyone wants to do something different until they see something different and then they wanna do something the same so. It's it's nice to see a brand. WanNa do something different and do do something very well. Put very well. Put Okay so you work with a lot of brand founders. I know you're a founder yourself but for these beauty brand founders. What do you think did you notice a commonality. There must be something where like like why Dennis Gruesome Pat McGrath. What's the is there. Is there any relying oh a definite a sense of crazy you you know. I just have jared Blandino. I mean there is definitely a sense of crazy. You really have to be fearless. So you have to hold your convictions. You I mean the ones that really survive the grind of it. are you know come out superstrong for strong more in touch with themselves than ever before. I mean that is what I have seen from founders that and having worked with you know the Nikki Canard's eleven eleven Lena's afresh I mean these are really powerful. People not powerful authoritatively though they haven't authority but just you know they walk in the room and you turn to look at at them and you want to talk to them. Do you think a lot of them. That's an innate like inborn or do you think a lot of them are fake it so you make it. I think it really depends I mean I'm like a die reporter friend. I'm curious because I feel like a lot of there are so many founders but they can't all be like it's kind of. We're talking about this once. Introvert extrovert like the can't be these like extroverted. You know my idea is the best idea kind of thing. I just don't believe that they're all like that unless I'm not there. I mean if they're they're all people even for myself. I am a die-hard integrate so even doing things like this you. It takes a level all of the evening a quiet evening. Are you kidding me by twelve. Step regimen waiting for me. I mean I'm an have yeah I think definitely it takes all clients and nothing magical about it but I even introverts really except the introverted as qualities themselves got you and we have a lot of listeners who are the dream of creating their own brands and we also have a lot of brand founders. you know listening. Do you have any tips. I know that that sounds very broad like we make a million dollars with our skincare brand. Yeah yeah I mean things over and over again like Oh like you. Come back to the office and you're like guys. He wants to do a frigging like shit again. We need another one of these. I mean I say do it. Go for it. I mean we as this as an industry. We're already talking about fatigue with customers. You know we're seeing things happening in the color space. You know versus last year. Got Sales are down and colored. It is rough but but honestly we're not. It's just it's another bump in the entire ride eight and a we have to have more founders more thinkers people that want to challenge the status quo going out there and really doing and I think do it. The way you feel feel in your heart is the right way to do it that and ultimately if you work at a brand if you WANNA create a brand following that instinct following I got following. What you feel is right will always make you stand out. I mean those look at the founders that we have out there a lot of them if they had stock to repeated or done people told them they should do they. They might not be where they are today. Graf Pat McGrath yeah. You mentioned your twelve step. Can we hear about the twelve step and some of the other products or use. You must get to try everything yes but I have a I am committed to my cleanser. It is the notorious B. Say h a cleansing GEL. I had to discover that. It's facing K. Oh yes I did the nets horribly say H. A. Y. First of all I love a Gel cleanser just like feels on my face the as are just enough for a light expoliation so I like nick have a glow. GotTa Wear Sunscreen that I love that product I mean I will hunt that product down but outside of that I mean I love you know the Lemaire world. I've been trying to versed skincare brand that just launched in target. you know. I stay packaging. It's cute right yeah. I mean I think that actually describe the packaging for people who can't see okay so packaging designed today is basically pick a color and make the entire entire package that right so pop on Instagram or shelly solid Pale yellow a solid moss green solid willowy blue Larry community yeah this idea of mixed the cap with another cut. No it's like all one color and when it's still that same thing that was because of the drunk elephant of the world older what that was like Oh. I want the orange one. I want the blue one. Yeah I mean I think I think no disrespect drunk elephant but they did not have been color in this industry. I mean we all sort of say they act like they did but like Ola Henriksson was using color forever their incredible brands. I think what drunk elephant did is exactly we were just talking about. They went with what they felt was right for them. You know they brought like the theatricality of makeup merchandising and experience into skin care and yeah and so it just made it fun the playfulness which was for yeah I mean it's funny like we would always have these conversations of you. Go to color and it's so exciting in engaging you go to skin care and nobody's over there and it's not anymore anymore now. It's totally flipped drunk elephant law. They didn't invent color. They did take that risk to sort of say like we don't have to act serious to be taken seriously you know and that sort of broke open this new way of thinking that has been really refreshing rushing honestly back to your skincare be fabulous skin. Tokyu tried. I we like your cleanser. What else do you so some things that I'm totally hooked on. I mean I've been losing sugar lip balm forever love. Oh yeah fresh sugar lip balm Lualaba neither thirteen. That is my die hard that we you smelled like when you walked Tin Yeah. Oh that's good thank you. I love that one. They made it in collaboration with Colette so in Paris so it's kind of a beautiful story. You're still exists. Oh I remember remember when this is cool seventy two it was like I had like Eliza Angelique. You know I have to say beauty section want want I mean it's not robust navy yeah in that real bust. Yes nicely pick up a course it. Though oh that's true that's true all right just shopping shopping call that and I need to be there for that. I think I got like a Notebook Postcard Book Yeah Anything Plain and simple. I know it's like you're glamorous but you have a practicality. I feel comfortable trouble saying this because they're good. They're old friends but like that. Combo that tension between those two is what makes you so special lights we just now in on my brand. Yes freedom from the stone boring but glamorous kidding kidding. I'm kidding. Okay yeah those die hard outside of that. I'm just a product junkie. Whore like everybody else straps oops you know now. Don't ask why I have a question for you so I when I was growing up there. Was this little machine gene that would like sock black heads out of your but it went away when I got it never worked but now I have heard that there is a new field has a new one and I tried a- and it works really good on those weird plugging things under your lower lip. No they're like not black heads but it's kind of like yeah. It works good on those an an actual black head. I couldn't get it to extract but it's actually really fun. Yeah I just get on there a poor lupone the extractor silver loop and rock it back and forth and work its way don't drag though press progress rock. Preston rock but I I heard that that machine was back and I was hoping it was. I don't know if this is what you heard of but I know Rodin fields just launched. Okay cool off to try that. Would you ever do any like coverage products Gillick. Do you ever do like a concealed. Definitely was used in the cosmetics conceal her for hourglass conceals a great conceal. That's beautiful. I know the cosmic says good too because it lost last longtime. It seemed a little yeah. Yeah and clink actually really has really great. I like complexion stuff. That works well for my skin the skin so globally right now. What's the lotion that you're wearing. I mean well right now. I'm trying to Lamar moisturizing. Gel Okay very nice very nice but I mean also. I've been running around all day. sledding Jess Foam Barks doesn't like our little so I like it but I am glowing because getting we wrap it up. We should end it Chris. Thank you so much for having me. It's time to raise a launch by the time you guys listening to this. I think it's going to be fall right yet. You just had your birthday so it's definitely burning up there. What does that mean. What are you reading one two. It's the most wonderful time uh-huh girl. You're talking about a candidate in China. Hi Pumpkin okay listen. You guys know I love nest candles. I am not being paid by scandals. How this's Hashtag had not spawn just absolutely nuts about them. They really have a great throw even when they're not live and when they are lit it's like suddenly feels like your apartments a lot more expensive totally like. I value up Laura Slatkin and I are definitely like your war for you. Basically have an upper east side townhouse exactly exactly couldn't have said it better so so the Pumpkin Pie Candle pumpkins very polarizing people hate it or they love it. I really like Pumpkin. I like it. I'm not like crazy. Pumpkin Oreos and stuff but the Pumpkin shy is so sophisticated and it's so mouth-watering in its orange. You feel like you've done something festive. I I have to start like I wanna be a decorating person but I'm not I gotta get their starting table. scaping loved to have like a Pumpkin on my house like picture a witch Zhou Oh good service candle so start with the candle a mixture fouls feel cozy and warm unless you're spending more time indoors got thrown little gnat flags or whatever it just feels like all is right with the world when you get yourself a fifty dollars. I was like they make me these two. Oh I love it. You have one foot and fall is love my foot back in summer enough already. You're supposed to wear sunscreen all year round okay. Do we not learn that from the skin. Can we did. We did but I know a little viral trend happening. This hot girl summer besides talk girl summer did you notice solid and striped sunscreens on instagram every Ed truly the most instagram -able sunscreen brand scene at the end of the summer. I just a lot of cool girls popping this on their like blanket before they took a picture so I was like I gotta get let me some of that actually a fashion brand and the online and truly just the packaging alone. I was like this is cool looking packaging but I ran out of Elta. MD Not on the honeymoon because we're using so much of it that's my usual so I also had taxes under three ounces. The face sunscreen broad spectrum thirty from solid stripe it has is that serum light quality. Let me try that. I haven't tried this yeah. It's really nice. Oh that's nice did eric like it because it has like it's a kind of Tan. I don't know why the color is Tan but shears out its shares. Here's out it. You do look a little glow e when you have it on. I that's why we didn't vote but like in a nice way not a mike away. I have to tell you they know their audience because this is very glowing skin game. I mean you just look like you should be in the Rivera but it's not shimmery and honestly it the it the finished you can put makeup on top. It's like it. Has that sheer serum from quality that I look for in a facial sunscreen so okay. I have one more question yes. What is hot girl summer. It's a song oh it's yes yes by our producer writing and making these Meghan Michelle's mega thus talion right no the these dallying I was right okay meghani stallion yeah and that's another friends on. Do you hear this song. I didn't hear this song. It was kind of like we're if I'm not listening to the Radio Radio spotify like charting it was like I don't listen to the charges. See everybody talking about hot girl summer. I saw it but I thought it was like an instant thing like it's lit or away. The MOM has landed your mom vibes. They're coming through got used to go somewhere and it was always like a girl looking hot like in a bathing suit. Yeah no no living your best life. It could be co opted dying. She's dying hard. No that head was is going back and forth left to right sounds like if you want but no it came from a song. Do you really listen to spotify like the top trend. I'll do it like once a week or whatever just to stay up on whatever everybody else listening to. I feel like we're GONNA magazine. I got to know what's going on. I kinda liked the song now so I don't know all right. You know what yeah I gotTA. I gotTa Cheka Justice Hot. Girl summer is officially over. She's getting her Pumpkin candle somewhere. I was so not hot. You're always oh. Thank you okay bye guys his thanks for listening that Mascara is produced by our friends that will media you can check out our website at miscarriage dot com for episode recaps product recommendations nations and discount codes and if you wanNA reach us directly email us at INFO at fat Mascara Dot Com where you can follow us on social at fat. Mascara shoot us a DM and we'd love love if you went over to itunes and rating how many stars five five please.