19 Episode results for "Rumi"

Meditation: Healing Shame (2020-07-01)

Tara Brach

12:59 min | 3 weeks ago

Meditation: Healing Shame (2020-07-01)

"The following meditation is led by Tara Brach. Tax More of meditations. Join my email list. Please visit. Tara broke DOT com. So the key. Inhaling toxic shame. and to be guided by healthy, shame is self compassion. And inevitably this is true for all of asses. We're going to be practicing together in a moment. We will continue to fuel badness when we encounter the imperfections of our coverings. The the habits of in different ways getting caught in anxiety or lashing out or judgment or whatever it is. If, we can remember our basic goodness and I often. My mantras often just trust the goal. Trust the goal to you know. Instead of reacting instead of defending instead of sinking a shame if we can remember that. We can then respond to what comes up and away. That further aligns our heart. We all need pathways of self compassion in response to imperfection. We all need ways and we all need to help each other. Realize that these difficult waves we experience. They're not our fault. And if we trust the goodness, we can actually become. The being that we WANNA be. So at that words, let's practice a little. This meditation is on healing, toxic shame and trusting the gold. Take a moment if you will to pause. Light Yourself Saddle. Closure is. Might feel this body breathing. You might scan. Notice where in your life. You might be reacting. Tamper faction. You might be feeling down on yourself judging yourself. Feeling Shame or version? And if there's a situation that triggers. Let that be in the foreground. Issue might be of a situation. Where you turn on yourself that has to do with. Your relationships personal relationships are. Your work, or maybe it's an addictive behavior. Are, you might be turning on yourself. In relationship to your group identity feeling shame about that. Judging others. Could be related to raise their sexual orientation gender identity religion ethnicity. Some situation where you turn on yourself. New might sense the worst part of this when you're turning on yourself. What really feels the worst? And being guided by the rain acronym, we start by just recognizing whatever's predominant. When you're turning on yourself. What are you most noticing? Is a shame. Is it a version? Is it fear? Mentally Whisper whatever you notice. Begins to call in the mindful witnesses. And then allow that create. Some space allows like sang okay. These coverings are here. This belongs. To wave in the ocean. Let it be there. Then as you approach investigating lead, there be a quality of gentleness and interest. Real curiosity about how reality is playing out through your body mind. You might sense what you're believing. Would you believing when you're turning on yourself? Isn't that you're basically unworthy. That you're. There's a sense of basic badness. Should that you'll never be close with others because of this. The are not lovable. What belief comes. And as you sense, whatever belief is there? Let yourself feel the unpleasantness, the pain of of shame of that feeling of badness. If it helps. Put your hand on your heart. Just to feel connected with what's going on inside. Please do so. You might imagine you could look right now through the eyes of the body, Sada. A wise compassionate being. The self that feels ashamed, not okay. The eyes of a wise grandmother. The eyes of a Buddha. MAYBE IS OF A. And loving friend. And see the suffering that they're. The suffering of of self aversion. and also see the streams of conditioning that shaped. The very behaviors or feelings that you're judging. How did you learn to be the way you are? This is modeled from caregivers. Shaped by messages from other. Whatever you're judging. How did it get there? You weren't born as a bad person. What's the conditioning here? was their past trauma. In Your Personal Lifetime Pass Generations To the eyes of the body SAAD FA seeing. Conditioning that created the very thing that you're aversive to. How did the society shape it? Our competitive. Over consuming aggressive. Divided society. How did that shape? Your inner experience. Sends in the presence of this. Body, satisfy this wise and loving being your own away cart. You might send the message inward. It's not your fault. Offer Real Compassionate presence. Send, care right the place it's hurting. The place that feels bad. Let it be! Bathed with a compassionate presence. Sense this possibility leading in. That loving. That, healing. Letting go into becoming one with it. With, after the rain, just to rest in that open, hearted presence. That which sees clearly. The suffering and holds with love. You might sense. Who are you when you're not believing? Something's wrong with you. Since the possibility of trusting. The awareness and compassion here is really your absence. In from that place of trusting the gold trusting. The goodness of your essence, you might look at the patterning. That, you were judging aversive to. Whatever it is about the coverings. That you're not liking perhaps ways you heard others hurt yourself. You what's my deepest intention? From the gold, what's my deepest intention? And what will help me align with that deep intention? Let me live from loving awareness. The poet Rumi describes the gold is loving awareness as the secret self. He writes. I must have been incredibly simple or drunk guard Shane to sneak into my own house and steal money. To climb over the fence and take my own vegetables, but no more. I've gotten free of that ignorant fish that was pinching twisting my secret of. The universe and the light of the stars come through me. I am the crescent moon. Put up over the gate at the festival. Might take a few full breasts, and as you're ready, opened her eyes. So I WANNA. Thank you for your attention or exploring this together. And to issue all loving blessings as you move through these next days. Now, mistake!

Tara Brach Rumi Shane
Rumi born - September 30, 1207

This Day in History Class

06:19 min | 11 months ago

Rumi born - September 30, 1207

"This episode is brought to you by the Rolling Stone Charts Rolling Stone as the definitive outlet for all things music bringing you the latest news interviews and reviews rolling stone is your go-to source to learn everything about groundbreaking breaking artists and now rolling stone is going even further to show you what it means to be on the rise introducing the rolling. Stone Charts and interactive set music charts that offer an in-depth in the moment view of the biggest songs songs albums and artists in music the rolling stone charts are the definitive guide for trending breaking in popular music in the age of streaming his at rolling stone dot com slash charts or search. Rs Charts the day in history class is a production. I heart radio. Welcome to this day in history class where we bring you a new tidbit from history every day. Today is September thirtieth twenty nineteen. The day was September thirtieth twelve. Oh seven Persian poet installer Jalal Up Dean roomy better known simply as Rumi was born in the Persian empire. Some sources say his birthplace was ball in present day. Afghanistan and others others say it was a small town in modern day tickets. Dan How'd Yo- graphical sources have claimed that Rooney's bother Baha aldean relied was descended offended from the Calif Abu Bakar but those claims have been rejected. Ruiz father was a religious scholar itinerant preacher and Sufi teacher. A Sufi is a Muslim mystic. The early thirteenth century was a time of great conflict in that part of the world. The Crusades were happening and the Mongols also were also a threat when Roomie was young his family moved to Marquette and possibly because of the Mongols or political instability where they lived they soon farther west into Anatolia or present day Turkey. When he was a teenager he married Gow heart cartoon with whom he had two children by twelve twenty nine. The Sultan of the jukes had invited Rooney's father to teach theology in Konia the capital of the Sultanate Khanate of room. The jukes were a branch of the Oak couth Turks and a dynasty that ruled parts of Central Asia and the Middle East from the eleventh to Fourteenth Eighteenth centuries they established the cell juke empire and assaulted of room but a couple of years after the family moved to Konia roomies father died died around twelve forty one when his father's protege or harm Abdeen died to Rumi took over as teacher the assumed leadership of the disciples and he became an Islamic jurist in Islamic jurists or foxy is the illusion with expertise in Islamic jurisprudence in-law roomy soon became friends with religious scholar and mystic. Sham Algebris who arrived in Konia in twelve forty four. Tim's believe in unpretentious spirituality it was under the influence of Shams that Rumi turned away from teaching and toward the path of ecstatic roomy began writing poetry but a few years after the two met Shams disappeared according to Legend Shams left because roomies students were jealous of Shams and resentful of roomies new passion or they may have even had champs killed. Whatever the reason for Sham's is disappearance roomy grooming expressed his feelings of loss and despair in his poetry and Dan Rooney transformed into someone devoted to mystical writing and worship much of his work at this time was expressed through the voice of Shams but it did not take long for him to find his own voice and began writing his most memorable work like like mess Naby or spiritual verses a six volume poem containing fables tails and reflections that illustrate the safety doctrine he was inspired to write the work by another mystic. He was close to who saw aldean's celebi throughout the last several years of his life. roomy dictated the poem to Som- who wrote it in Persian. The poem is widely read in the Muslim world. People have compared to the Koran and recognized is religious and literary a significant Rumi also wrote the works of Shams Tabriz. A collection of mystical poems. Generally roomies poetry focuses on on the idea that God is absolutely ecstatic love and he questioned Orthodoxy many of the poems were composed to be sung at Sufi gathering after his poems were translated people in the West associated him with a tolerant Islamic spirituality and related to his focus on a direct connection with guide as far as his prose goes his sermons letters and lectures have been recorded Rumi in Konya in twelve seventy three his followers compounded the MED levy order a Sufi order years after his death. The order is also known as the whirling dervishes because they practiced whirling as a form the thicker or devotion as a means of attaining ecstatic experience. I'm eavesdrop coat and hopefully you know a little more about history today than you did yesterday. If you feel like correcting my pronunciation or my accent on anything that I've said it in a show bill free to leave a very kind to comment on twitter instagram or facebook at t the I eight thirty podcast. We'll see you tomorrow for more podcasts from my heart radio versus the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows this episode is brought to you by the Rolling Stone Charts Rolling Stone as the definitive outlet for all things music bringing you the latest news interviews and reviews rolling stone is your go-to source to learn everything about groundbreaking artists and now rolling stone is going even further to show you what it means to be on the rise introducing the rolling Stone Charts and Interactive Seta Music Charts that offer an in-depth in the moment view of the biggest songs albums and artists in music the rolling stone charts are the definitive guide for trending breaking in popular music and the age of streaming because it rolling stone dot com slash charts or search R._S. Charts.

Dan Rooney Rumi Legend Shams Konia Baha aldean Shams Tabriz Shams jukes Afghanistan facebook Sham Algebris apple Konya Jalal Ruiz Calif Abu Bakar Gow Sham Sultanate Khanate Roomie
The mystical poetry of Rumi

The Alchemical Mind

1:06:42 hr | 2 months ago

The mystical poetry of Rumi

"They! Would welcome to the Chemical Mind My name is Martin? At long last I'm doing my episode on Rumi. Very excited to share some of ruin these poetry with you. I think at some of the most powerful. Mystical. Poetry. That you could read. If you've never heard of Rumi. He's a thirteenth century poet Sufi poet and he's had. A great influence both in Islam and Sufism. The world is a whole to be honest. In fact that Remy's poetry is the second. Best selling. Book in Arabic in the Arabic world behind the Koran, not saying a lot. Now. I'm not going to dive deep into Islam. OR WHAT SUFISM IS! or who really was because? Ultimately, that's not what this podcast is about. This podcast is about sharing. Knowledge. And understanding how we can. Make that fit into our lives today. So that's what I'll be doing on this episode. If, you want me to do an episode, his life. Maybe I'll do when at some point. I'll definitely be touching upon Islam and Sufism in a later date that going through your on research. Ultimately, that's what the most important thing is. By no means an expert in Islam. So if you have a different interpretation of the poetry, that I'm reading to you in this episode, then by all means. Use, your own interpretation. Does, actually something that will be talking about a little bit deeper. This coming week as I do the episode and a thirty that I've been talking about for the last of weeks, that should be out sometime later on in the week, but I doing episode that if I had more important about letting go of things about some really interesting experiences in letting, go and allowing the university kind of work for you. Instead of you working against it, so that'll be the next episode and they will start diving into authority. will go to fear. In other things. Now's persons reduced to room me when I was a senior in high school. So this has been. About twenty years that will give you roughly what my ages spend about twenty years since I. I sorta roomy and I actually began to study Islam and Sufism. To understand who roomie is, we do need to know some basis of what Sufism is. Sure most of you listening to this will have some vague notion of what Islam is. Maybe of those things will be misguided so. We can dive into some of those things in a future episode. Islam is at its core a very. Truthful in beautiful religion. We'll have never practiced it formerly a have the Lotta studying into Islam. If you've never done so the night. By all means, there's plenty of great texts that you can pick up and learn more about this beautiful religion. But, Sufism is something that interests me more. In the reason for that is that Sufism is the mystical aspect of Islam. Now me personally. I've had kind of an aversion to organised religion for quite a while. I would say probably the latter half of my life I've had an aversion to. Organized Religion and will start at roughly at the time where I began doing comparative studies of religion in Highschool. I'm sure if you can relate because generally, that's when these things start coming about. People start having doubts about the religion that they're raised in. Particularly I would say within Christian. Communities in ailments say that because I was raised as a Christian, you may have a different background experience in different life joining different path that you've taken to get to the place where you're at, but that is where my journey started. Now, remember taking this. Comparative Religion Course in High School. And I actually I remember speaking to my father about this. Because my father was very involved in the church I was also very above the church he was a. he was a minister I was choir director at the time I was involved in in visiting other members of the Kardashian and Sunday school stuff I was very involved. But something never quite clicked for me. And so when I was given the opportunity to take this comparative religion course in High School. I spoke with my dad. And he wasn't too sure that it was a good idea. So he asked that I speak with. The main congregation preacher. And I did, and he also said that it would be a bad idea. But, ultimately it was my decision in so I took the course. And what they were right? It was a bad idea. If my intent was ultimately to continue on the path that I was on. An staying within that agregation, which I did not I ended up leaving a couple of years later. But. This is when I was introduced to many of the things that have been discussing on this podcast over the last few weeks. Buddhism Taoism Zen Hinduism Islam other sects of Christianity. The course really dealt with some of the major religions, so that was very much on legs, Zoroastrianism or the chain or anything like that, but it was a good introduction for me, and this is when I found out about roomy. We actually had to read the essential Rumi as part of the course. And one of the first things that really struck me. roomies words was. Mean they are poems in general are not very long. There are some longer ones, but in general. They're fairly short. Maybe, a dozen or two dozen lines tops. You nothing find many that are just a couple lines, three or four lines long. But the the quote that really got to me when I was reading this. Was Do, not feel lonely. The Entire Universe is inside gym. And I wanted to start this episode with this quote. Because if you ever follow any of the other mystical traditions from really any other tradition Christianity into his anything. Often hear the same kind of words. I find that very interesting and somewhat exciting. Because for the most part, organized religion is not created to. Actually advance your knowledge of who you are, and what relationship to whatever the by a divine being is in the sky or inside. You are around you. It is Kinda become a method of? Control within society. And I use the word control very loosely right? This is not some David Eick. Reptilians are taking over society or you know. The illuminated guiding US within the shadows. None of that. Mean there is maybe a little bit of an aspect to that right. There are certain things within organized religion that is meant to kind of. Keep people at ease at peace and continuing to contribute to the society around them. And well, that's all well and good. Maybe need some form of moral stance to take in a world where maybe we have no idea how to face it. At least I think until you get to a certain. LEVEL OF CONSCIOUS DEVELOPMENT In which case no longer need that. In those things become less and less important, and therefore, the mystical traditions become kind of more of a focus into how you want to base your life. And how to live it? Kinda hinted a little bit about my spiritual journey. I'll go into it in-depth at some point. Because I do want to end up getting to a point where share some of the experiences that I've had indeed meditation, but also using psychedelics in I have no issue discussing that I feel. If you're listening to this podcast, Chits, czar, you're open, minded enough where either you have tried it or you maybe understand the benefits of undergoing some kind of psychedelic therapy. So definitely be talking about that, but man I had this experience. Little over a year ago. A matter of fact I would think it was march or April of last year. I had an experience on. psychedelics said just completely changed my life. And ultimately gave me the strength the courage to. Start this podcast and actually talk about some of the things that I have personally experienced. anyways we're. Not GonNa. Talk about the today, so maybe I shouldn't even bring it up. But it's really interesting how? No matter what tradition you go into. If, it's a mystical tradition, the amount of overlap. That is found within those traditions. Whether you're looking at the Sufis or the Christian mistakes or the NAS sticks or the Vidana Focus. Every single religion in the world has some secret aspect, right the mystery religion aspect of it. That's followed by just a few. And those people kind of. Get the true meaning of what. The words that are given by prophets, holy books, or whatever else those people get the real meaning. Because a lot of this is. enveloped in mythology. In Story. Because gotta remember, it's much easier to remember a story than it is to remember a list fax. People we as human beings were kind of made that way where made to live in story. Where a storytelling people we have language tons of languages. Different dialects of languages. We'll we'll have different belief systems, different religions worship the gods. Have different views on how to raise a family how to raise children how to? Have a particular type of work ethic. Were all those things are different? The one thing that we all have in common is this. Aspect of sharing knowledge through language. And I wanNA talk about language. In the future I plan on doing a couple episodes on this. In College I was an English Major. So language is something that has always fascinated me. I was I was a little bit of acog Langer for a little while I created my own languages, construct languages, and it's a ton of fun. If you've ever tried it. Maybe you WANNA try it. It's if you don't know a lot about the structure of it might be a little difficult to get started. There's some great resources you can use to get their. Language Unites All of us right. We will have language. We have the need to tell stories. In ultimately that's what. I think organized. Religion lacks sometimes. It, kind of washes down the message of the true teachings of what. The culture religion is about. Because most people cannot or do not want to understand the true meaning of things. They just want to be held by the hand to be given instructions on what to do. But the mystic doesn't do that. The Shaman does not do that. Mystic the Shaman finds that knowledge within themselves. And this is what this roomy quote is about do not feel only the entire universes inside you. Do you ever feel lonely when you're doing this kind of work when you're doing this kind of research? Because I know I do. Is another reason why I wanted to sort this podcast. Kind of have a place where I could share these kind of things that I learned experience in my own. Because when I try to talk to people that I know about this. Just kind of think, I'm crazy. And I'm sure for many of you listening. You might have the same aspect where people that here you talk about. Some of these things might think you're crazy. What do you mean you did a nice ceremony? Trapped Five grams of mushrooms. In our day two hours a day. But you do a fast every week. You are reading the wet the her Medica. Too many people that's crazy to think about those things. But maybe to you, and definitely to me, it is not. To hear the words do not feel lonely. The entire Universe is inside you. To me, that was life changing. Because up until that point, my entire life I felt like I was the only one that felt this way. Wasn't true. As I dove deeper into the some of these things I learned that the had been true ever. That many other people have felt this way. And many other people found the same solution. You can never be lonely because the entire universe is inside you, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. If. You ever think of these words whenever you have any kind of problem. If, you truly understand that, believe it. Then! You have no problem at all. So I picked the about a dozen poems that I felt like maybe I could talk about in this episode and I'm not going to do all twelve, because that's definitely a lot, and that would make this episode quite a bit longer than I would want him to be. I want to keep these within thirty to forty five minutes usually and fifteen minutes I can tell I'm going a little bit longer. The longer end of things, but that's okay. Now give time again. Give things time they need. In order to pan out. So I WANNA start off reading. A roomy poem cold enough words. But that shadow has been serving you. What hurts you less as you? Darkness is your candle. Your. Boundaries are your quest. You must have shadow in light source both. Listen and May your hand. On their a tree of aw. This is what I'm talking about about the use of metaphor within roomies, work and other mystical works to get a message across. Guarantee you anybody reading this poem that hasn't done any kind of work of this type will have no idea what this poem meets. But you mean the darkness is your candle, but hurts, you blesses you. You must have shadow and light. What does this all mean right this Gobbledygook? It's garbage. It means nothing. Would love to be able to actually read Arabic by the way. Because I would love to read these in the original language in fact in preparation for this episode I was trying to find on Youtube in particular. Some will record find people reading some of these poems in Arabic. That's what I could follow along because I wouldn't know what word is what but just to hear how the original? Would have been spoken I think that would be really awesome, so if you have a link to that or have anyone that speaks Arabic that wants to. Record some of these readings incentive to me by all means let me know Martin at the chemical, men dot, com, or at two minute chemical on twitter. So, what does this mean? This is ultimately exactly how we started this episode. This poem is about the pain and suffering of life. Now, we have. We heard this before right in the first episode of this podcast if you listen to that. You may have heard me talk a lot about Buddhism. And I know a couple of folks Ashby was is going to be a podcast just about Buddhism. No as we could see by now, this isn't which is what it's about. But the message isn't really necessarily any different. The Buddha said life is suffering. And this is exactly what roomy say here. And we're also getting kind of a way to get over the fact that like suffering. What hurts, you blesses you. What does this mean? I'M GONNA. Talk a little bit about this a little bit more in the next episode as I talk about letting go. But that of relates quite a bit to where it hurts, you blesses you. Often! Times when something bad happens to us. We. Sit there and we get anxious. We get afraid we get angry. Me with feel like we don't know what we're GONNA do now. I lost my job. What am I? GonNa do right. That's a big fear. Lately a lot of people lost their jobs during the pandemic. What am I gonNa do where am I gonNA, get money to pay the bills. I have a particular skill. That's never behind the. Where do I go? Do I ended up working at supermarket flipping Burgers at McDonalds. House, where am I? GonNa, live. Right. Things that we worry about all the time, but should we worry about these things into me? What room say here is now. You don't worry about these things us all these experiences. As lessons. You take what hurts you. You turn it into something. Good something positive. Maybe if you had it lost your job, you wouldn't find the current job that you're right. Maybe find a better job. Maybe you end up going through some kind of existential crisis in your say to yourself. What am I gonNA do now. My whole life is based on going to church and being with those people. When we'RE GONNA do. What you do, is you go with the way the universe takes you. Things not going to hurt you. It's a blessing in disguise. GonNa make you a better person, it might make you different. It might mean the certain aspects of you are no longer true. It might mean that part of you dies will say. You cannot be reborn. It something else if he doesn't die. Darkness is your candle. You know this is really interesting. Actually I wanNA talk about darkness. At some point, it's it's on my list of episodes to do. Because I've been doing a lot of reading on the the dark night of the soul lately. And I posted a tweet recently, and got a pretty good response on the dark night of the soul so fascinating fascinating thing. That obviously I went through in again diving to that experience at some point in the future. But something that I think if you're on this path of of self learning. Of Bettering yourself of achieving a higher level of consciousness. Of learning the more mystical aspects of life. Then you definitely gone through this the. event. I don't know what the caller. This. Story this this dark night of the soul. There's there's a couple of quotes from the Bible that I'll be doing when idea when I talk about that episode, but even even Jesus talks about in the dark night of the soul. This we find that a lot of mystical traditions. What is the dark night of the soul? Erica your own research in preparation for that episode? It's not going to be three or four weeks out, so you have plenty of time. Fascinating aspect right because you cannot go into the next step you cannot. You can open yourself up into the light. I don't like using some of these terms because they have so much baggage. But you can open yourself to to the night tilt light. If you, don't I witness the darkness right? This is a core aspect of like not dual teachings with the teachings. You can look at the Yang Symbol for example is a perfect example of this. And I picked up. Because I'm sure everyone. Regardless of what faith you're on has at least seen Yin. Yang symbol right? You know what this is. You have these two shapes that kind of looked like tear drops. kind of melting into each other one have is black, symbolizing the darkness when have is white symbolizing the light. And you can have the whole. Without having both the darkness, and the light together. Not, just that, but within the light part of the Yin Yang Symbol. You have the black dot. In aspect of darkness within the light. And within the dark side, you have a white dot. Because you have a little bit of light inside the darkness. And this is really a fascinating topic. That I, want to dive into some day I don't know when but I I will definitely be diving into this aspect of light and darkness. And it won't be during darkness the soul by the way although I'm sure expanded on it then. It's fascinating, because think about the implications of this within the world as a whole right. Think about this within the world as a whole. They remember Rumi says you must have shadow in light source both. A lot of times within. Esoteric circles you hear certain things right like let the light flow in the. Right turn the negative into positive. To new fear into happiness. Your hatred into love, but in why does it have to be this way? Why do we only need to have these positive aspects? This is not what makes us human. If we are to believe that we are divine beings and I believe we are. Then, we cannot be solely goodness. Goodness wouldn't have all the the hatred and war and famine and craziest goes on in the world. If, that were the case. We have to have both. In ultimately think we're a lot of. I would say in particular modern day teachers right some of the new age. Teachers that are around. I think part of failing there is they fail to recognize is the dark aspects? Of Ourselves. Ultimately, you get into this kind of work. You're doing it not because you want to be i. mean maybe when you start you do. You want to be a better person. You want to be super good. You want to be great. You want to maybe achieve Nirvana, or whatever right some of these things. By the way you don't need to you're you're already there, right? Near the last episode Kim God his aside you. We're talking about this now again. We fail to recognize some of these things because we feel like it's bad. Right. It's bad to hate things. It's bad to be afraid of things. It's not bad. What's bad is not finding the balance between both sides, but that's. That's where we fail. That's what we get stuck in life. With things go wrong for us right were things go in a way that we don't want them to go because we force them to go in this way. But if we That we are both darkness and light. This wouldn't be a problem. And Trust me. I will definitely go much more into this when I share the second experience that I mentioned earlier because his exactly what happened in my experience? And this is when I felt after all these decades of learning and studying that I finally began to understand. What some of these are setting. It's A. How do you get through all this? You listen and lay your head under the tree of all. I, get this kind of thing quite a bit lately, and it all started with the psychedelic experience in I remember the next day I. I didn't want to tell my wife about experience and I still haven't shared with her. In fact, I haven't shared the experience with anybody. I I wrote it down. So I wouldn't forget it. And, it's been so powerful to me. That I, have not even. Opened up the document to reread the story. Because it's it's so deeply ingrained in my head. That I can recollect exactly what happened even a year later year plus later. But I remember the next day I talked to my wife. And I think she said to me it was. It was early in the morning. She started telling me about this problem with work. And I was still kind of in this in this days for my experience. and. Said, you know it's fine. Everything is magic. She thought I was the craziest person ever. To say that everything is magic, now remember. We've been married a little over seven years guy. Has Seen me kind of go through some of the transformations that have gone through as a result of some of the experiences. But never had she heard me say something like that and she had no idea how to reply. But this is what it's saying here. All need to do is listen. Right except that, you have both light and dark. And you will be sitting under the tree of all. You realize so many things when you do this about the world that you you thought word possible. But of course they are. If you truly understand. I think that this poem is absolutely fantastic, really powerful for for just a few lines. Now the next two poems are really interesting. They dive a little bit deeper into the fear aspect that will be diving into in a couple of weeks on the PODCAST. So. I definitely want to talk about these. The I was called the uses of fear. Some of these metaphors might be a little antiquated right because. You. We have machines that do things for us right there back the reforming and all that stuff, so keep that in mind whenever you you read some of these ancient texts. That the metaphors might be even a little more off for us than they were at the time, right? The metaphors might have been a little clearer than. But it starts off. A donkey turning millstone is not trying to press oil from sesame seed. He's fleeing the blow that was struck and hoping to avoid the next. We look to pain and keep the civilization moving along. Fear is the architect here. Fear keeps us working near the ARC. Sometimes, though it is fear. Contracting that brings you into the presence. Of course the way this ends kind of goes along with what we just read in a forts right, you must have shadow light sources both. You know here a lot of a lot of therapists. In Gruber's and spirits teachers talking about how to get over fear. Do you get over the aspect of fear? Become fearless. Right all these things all these catchphrases. And and we we don't need to do that right fear. Fear is an integral aspect of who we are. If we didn't have fear. We probably die. As a child as a baby. Right if our parents didn't have fear, they wouldn't bother sheltering us in in our homes. keep us safe from the elements. If we didn't have fear, you wouldn't worry about the red light right. You would just go across because who cares if a car hits, you and you die. That's not what this is saying it all right. There's different levels of fear. Mostly relates to irrational aspects of fear. Right thinks that leads you to have severe anxiety for example. Because ultimately the only reason you have that anxiety is because it is something that you cannot control right. That's what you're afraid of it. But at the same time you're afraid of it. When you shouldn't be because that thing isn't here yet, right? You're not living in the present. So you're only. Of something that hasn't happened. Well, what says, does that make? Right if there is in front of you. He's ready to claw your eyes out. The navy. You have some kind of reason to fear right? You might lose your life. Unless you achieve some kind of like deep enlightenment experience, maybe where you realize that it doesn't matter right. But, even then even if you have that Baird, front of you. You still shouldn't have the fear that you're. GonNa lose your life. And the reason for that is that if you have that, fear you still living in the future. You're not living in the present. And ultimately it means that you know you. Hold your life a little more daily that you should. We'll talk about that at some other point. Be Kind of a controversial topic. Because you know I'm sure a lot of you listening. Don't want to die. So. Hold that thought for now. We'll come back to it in the future. But this kind of the elements of fear. And ultimately time we fear things because. We don't want to change what we are. And to be honest if you're into. This kind of work and I assume you are. If you're listening to this podcast. This is something that you kind of need to get over? Because ultimately you will realize that the only way to truly understand any of this is for you to completely die. You the person that you think you are right. Me The person I think I am. Right I have to quit being Martin in order to. Truly understand all these things. And again we'll talk a little bit about that. Survival in steak, right? It's about survival instinct. There in the pandemic, for example, people are asked to wear masks right. Some people that want to wear masks I have gay you making me wear masks. It's a Free Country Right especially here in the US I don't know how it is in other countries, but here in the US. That's a thing. It's a free country. It's my right to netware mask well. It's not your right to not where mass first of all. Because if you're going into a public place, maybe right. That is held in the constitution. But if you go to say like a Walmart or target or some supermarket or whatever gas station? That's not. That's not a public place, right? It's owned by a private entity. They can tell you to do whatever they want to do. The free country stops at the door when inside. If you're in a different country, then you follow those rules. If you're here in the US. And you say you want to travel to France or whatever Germany or China wherever you WANNA go. And you walk around carrying a gun. Let's say right. You have a gun in your pocket. Well in most countries. You can't do that right here. The US. There are places where you can just walk around in public with with a gun in a holster on the side of you. Right. In some places you have to have like a seal weapons license right, but you can still have the gun on you. It just can't be visible. Place need to kind of announce it. Hey, you know have a concealed weapon. Cookies in the world. You can't do that. Right so if you go in somewhere and you get arrested because you have a gun on you. What are you GonNa? Say Oh, well listen. where I'm from I can carry a gun wherever I want. Well guess what you're not there anymore. And this is true. You know when you go into a business into a private business. But. Of course, it's a survival instinct, right? You WanNa wear. You have your gun with you. You want to wear a mask and what to not wear a mask. That's your decision, right? You're your own person. You're a free person. You can do whatever you want. And, that's not true. Ultimately we look at say. Or other. Entities of authority. To kind of guide us in where we go right. Here, he says dunk turning Milton was not trying to press oil from sesame seed. He is fleeing the blow that was struck in hoping to avoid the next. So donkey isn't doing the work. He's doing because he wants to do the work. Donkeys doing the work because if he doesn't do it that whoever's running? The MILL IS GONNA. Start beating the donkey. The donkey doesn't WANNA. Get hit! This is classic Pavlovian Psychology Right. If you've never heard of Pavlovian psychology. You know you I'm sure you've heard of it. The experiment the Dogs Right. The Guy was trained the dogs to be good, so you know he every time he, he do something good. They get a treat. Right and the dog such realized. Hey, if I, if if my owners has shake. Shake my paw. That means I get a treat. If I don't shake, that'll get anything I love treats. Let me just shake my arm. Right and sometimes they do this kind of instinctually their stately to an extent. Right, they might see you talking to them excitedly. Because dogs, dogs don't speak. English, they don't speak any human language. Right they understand intention. So, you might go to the dog and be really excited. Docs themselves him. God! Bless I'm this guy was excited. He gave me a treat. Let me just shake. Do you see sometimes you get excited and the dog just like goes to shake because that's what he thinks you want. Because he knows if he does that, he gets a treat is exactly what's going on here? The is only working the mill because he doesn't want to get hit right. It works both ways. Positive reinforcement negative reinforcement. So what he's saying? Is that a lot of times we do the things we do not because we want to do them. because. It is the expectation of those around us that we do these things. Right fear is the architect here. Being motivated by fear. Fear Up, whatever right? Disappointing somebody. Fear of not performing duty. Fear of not being a Christian good, Muslim, or good Buddhist or Hindu whatever. Fear of I. Don't know if you've anything it's just it's fear. Fear is a guides a lot of the. That we take around the day. If you go to work. Somebody Louis C.. Boss pisses you off. Right and I've had this happen this way I'm using it as an example. You gotTA. Work your. Boss pisses you off. instinctually you think to yourself this a whole right? How dare he? Say that. Right you say yes, ma'am, no ma'am. Yes, sir, no, Sir. I'll get it done right away. Why is it that you do that? because. You're afraid that you're going to lose your job if you speak up. In then you know you can't buy your kids food. You can't buy clothes. You can't pay for your car. You Lose Your House. Etcetera Etcetera. This appoint your wife or your husband if you do that. Be motivated by fear. Trust and believe. That there's some more aspects to this and I'll be talking about duty, because duty fits right in between these two big topics, discussing the next couple of weeks fear authority. Right duty falls right there in the middle. Fear keeps us working near the ARC. Sometimes, it is fear a contracting that brings you into the presence. So while veer may guide some of the things that we do. You don't need to be afraid of being afraid. Because then you end up going into. An infinite loop right. A self fulfilling prophecy. You're scared that you can lose your job. So then you're scared of this in that makes get the other things now. You're scared of being scared. And then that brings up another fierce. You're being scared of being scared of US scared of being scared and it just crazy. But if you're in the present. If you're aware. If you're mindful. And it's something that will hit up on. The next. Topic is mindfulness. And it won't be on the next episode, but maybe between fear in authority I'll be doing a a mindfulness. That can do along You know what we'll definitely do in the next episode. Spend the president. Be Mindful of on these things understand right. Don't don't just say. I'm not afraid anymore, right? There's different. There's different therapeutic remedies to kind of get over your fears. Right psychologists, a lot of things like this. One one that I've heard US often specifically with like really serious fears. Is is one that we've seen in esoteric circles in in religion I houses of years, and that's facing your fear, right? So, you might be put in a room. Your spirit spiders might put in a room with a spider. And and at first a spider held ten feet away from you, so you can see it right, but it's not close enough for might hurt you right so you might still be afraid, but not like really afraid just like a little skin. Right your little weary. And the next session you know, maybe it's five feet away from you're not like. Five feet. That's that's pretty close. That's that's in my circle, right a little bubble. But it's okay. Just stay right there. We'll keep spot there. I'm a stay over here. You stay over there with the spider. In the next time it's you know half a two and a half feet away from you like. Now I can I can. Stretch my arm at now. We can touch spider. That's that's Kinda scary. spiders really close. And the next keeps getting closer and closer closer until the spiders placed on your hand. And by then you realize sputters not doesn't want to hurt you. Have to be careful of course right if you if you get jumpy. He started over reacting despite his sense your fear and thank you trying to hurt it, and then it might hurt you. But by this point, you've done some mindfulness. Some understanding of how this whole thing works and you should be able to hold the spider in your hand. By being present, really important, really important. Let's go along with that. We have craftsmanship in emptiness. This is really interesting. Really interesting, In this relates not just to fear. But to how we interact with our culture based on peer. Don't listen to them. They seem to protect, but they in prison. They are your worst enemies. They make you afraid of living in emptiness. Right like. If if you've listened to guys, never already brought up David for example, let's go with that. Guy, like David. Wright and and that's his thing, right? Here to enslave you right there working in the background, there's a shadow government. The you know the. They're in control of Dilemma Nadi these people nobody knows who they are, but the guide the whole world they want. Imprisonments were slaves. And maybe. An interesting character because he, he does use a lot of In particular NAS tick ideology. In, in his conspiracy theories, and that you know if you'd like, that's fine I I think he's very entertaining. At do I buy into some of the things that he says now? But he, he is a very good entertainer. But ultimately he's kind of. Driving in fear, right? He selling fear. As we learned. We don't need to be afraid of being afraid. To be afraid of. Is See to protect the prison there your worst enemies now. Who is he talking about here? By subject here is that surely he's talking about maybe imams of the time right or other religious leaders philosophical leaders. But of course you know, you can take this for for anything you can talk about politicians I think nowadays in particular about politicians when you talk about this kind of thing. You know it could be anybody. It could be your boss at work right? It could be a spouse, maybe your spouse. Is keeping imprisoned in some way. It could be your children it could be. It could be yourself. Right maybe you're so afraid of it. The your imprisoning yourself. Right in society. You're giving yourself anxiety. So, whoever they is doesn't much matter. But there's always a day. There's always day. And we kind of need to get over the fact of Bay because as we'll talk about. In two episodes when I talk about authority. There is no authority but you. So? There is no day. Right? Nobody makes do anything right. There's let's say the devil made me do it. How how silly that is the silliest thing ever? The devil made me do it. I mean. Maybe you are the devil, so yes. I guess in that sense. A devil did make you do it. What does that mean? We'll talk about some time? TATTON stink about it. You know I'm I'm I might throughout some. Weird things out. As I do some of these these discussions on these topics. Don't ever take any the stinks. Personally. As personal attacks on your own spiritual beliefs on your own philosophical beliefs. Stick about why? Why would he say that what? Does it mean something? I mean it might mean something. Am I not right automatically. There's probably no meaning to to the things that I say. Don't don't take things. To literally. Make you afraid of living an emptiness right? Because ultimately you want. You want to feel fulfilled. Right. You want to make everyone your life happy. But expense. Right. What expense the work sixty seventy hours a week. So you can have a nice home in a nice car, and your spouse can have nice things in your kids in have nice things and never have nice clothes, and he good food and go to nice restaurants. Negative Disneyland or whatever it is that you WANNA do? At what expense do you work sixty seventy hours a week? Because you can't enjoy any of those things. If all you're doing is working. And when do you enjoy them? When you take your your week, vacation your two week vacation once a year. You're not enjoying your life that way. So you're living emptiness. So. You need to kind of get over that fear you accept it. And you let it go. And then you don't feel empty. You feel fulfilled. Because, he truly understand why it is through things you do. So how do you fix all this? You Start Living Your Life I. and how do we do that? Let's read not a day on any calendar. My Life is not mine. Give up wanting what others have. That way you're safe. Where where can I be safe, you ask. This is not a day for asking questions, not a day on any calendar. This Day is conscious of itself. This Day is a lover. Bread and gentleness were manifest than saying can say. Thoughts take form with words, but this light is beyond and before thinking and imagining. Of course. One of the most popular sayings ever. That relates to this is carpet. Right? Seize the day. Live every day like it's your last one. or the the related term carpet knocked them. Live every day like it's your last day. Right? Live your life to the fullest. You hear this all the time. I'll live you life to the fullest. You're all gung ho about it sounds so great. Right that means I can do whatever I want right I can go go do drugs. I can go rob a hotel I can. Do whatever yeah, whatever and maybe you don't think those things right? Those are just examples. But, do you do those things? Because I guarantee you a lot of times. You have these kinda catchy phrases in your head. But you don't actually. You don't actually live him. Right. Maybe you. Sound good right. That's why you say. We think they sound good. Don't necessarily believe him. Or maybe you do believe him, but you don't really understand what they mean, right? You think it means one thing. When it's complete opposite. I'm GONNA dive really deep into this on the next episode because I had this experience. Two or three times this week already. where I wanted something to happen. And you life pushes back at you right inside. WHOA, trying to take two steps ahead and you're pushing back four steps. But this week. After after second, Delic experience. This week I had to stay where. I just decided to just let it go. Not Worry about it. And boy has it really paid off? Because the exact opposite of what I thought was going to happen. Happen every single time. And when I say that I, mean for the better. where I felt like had no worry. Right, no fear of what could happen. At one point I was like man. If I don't do this I'm GonNa get fired. And I didn't do it. and My boss came in and we chat, and he left it. A great mood. Said is the best visit he'd ever had with me. It was just it was crazy. Because I let that thing. Go and I just allowed the universe to. Work, itself out. I got out of the way. And if you think well, if you're getting out of the way, you let the universe work, then your life is not yours. Right in Ruby's saying. My Life is not mine. Right exactly. It? gave up wanting. What other people have we have this all the time? We have all the time. Sometimes it just kind of by accident. Right and this goes kind of let trust the universe. Let it go something. Say a you need a new car right so you go car shopping. You find his car and. The car that you want is out of your budget. Like I can't afford that car, right? That's twenty thousand dollars I have ten thousand I. Can I can afford this car instead right and you get that car instead. And then you get your neighbor bought the car you wanted. Ike will damn it. I want that car, right? I want that car and I have this piece of crap car. He's got this really Nice, car! Why can't you be happy with the car you got? Be Happy with that. Are you know let's say? You have siblings for example. Let's say let's say you got a PhD right so your doctor. You have all this money. and. And your sister? She dropped out of high school she. Works at a as a waitress at a restaurant. She might say Oh my God my brother, he's. He's doctor, a rich schedules beautiful house. He doesn't vacations I want that. I live this crappy life because I don't have those things. Well, the thing is you don't need those things. The problem is that you're trying to find fulfillment. In somebody else. That's why your life is not yours. Because you don't allow it to be. You want what everybody else has. You're not happy with what you have. And you make your life worse. If you accept what you have. Your happy in that. And you become fulfilled in that. Of, course, it doesn't mean that you can't live your dream, right? You can't pursue your dreams. Whatever that might be you might be. YOU WANT TO BE A. What a kiss! When be Youtube, stars. You want to be a youtube star. Right! I'm doing a podcast I want my podcast to have ten million listeners. Don't Tempe. Ten million people listened. That's fine. But I don't do the podcast to have ten million listeners. because. I enjoy doing it I enjoyed talking about these things now alternately. That's what matters. And because of that brings me great joy to do this podcast. Read don't need to worry. Need to tweet at the episode. I get a posted instagram. Yes, I do those things. Need to right. And, so how do we solve this problem of wanting things we don't have? Not, being happy with what we have. Again remember this is not a thing where Oh you know. This is of course doesn't happen here, but in some countries still slavery. I'm a slave I'm I'm cool with that I'm okay with being biggest site. That's not what this means. Right in some ways, of course, you are a slave to acquitted unquote system, but that's not what this means. How do we get over this? Thoughts take form with words. And we sure he'll this a lot right. We hear this a lot. I. Don't know if it's still popular for a the secret was really popular, right? It was a it was Oprah's book of the month. Of course, all the ladies and gentlemen that Watch Oprah that I got the secret best book ever right manifest what you want, right? You think about it hard enough. It becomes true. And yes, that is true. Right? Remember the world's magic. And you certainly can manifest whatever it is that you want in life. But not in that way, right? Not In that way the the difference is. The the the whole secret thing to me is kind of like. What organized religion is to? Mystical aspects of religion and philosophy. Right! It's kind of this water down thing. That doesn't really get to the core of what it is. But. Yes, you certainly can manifest your thought into. Do this all the time. I'm doing this right now. Right manifesting this reality. The reality of discussion of this podcast right now. You might say that's not that cool right you just manifesting podcast will yes. But that's that's my reality right now. And maybe when I'm done. I'll manifest some sleep maybe. Of course, you can't go much deeper into this, so don't get me wrong. Right not saying that you cannot manifest the universe into making things happen for you in fact I'm saying the opposite, because as are discussing the next episode with letting go. That's exactly what you can do. But not in the way you think. Now all you got to remember. Is thoughts take form with words, but the daylight is beyond and before thinking imagining. Isn't that a thing of hey ain't to think about hardy definition. Happen to imagine myself wouldn't the lottery I'm going to win it. That's not what it means at all. These things if you accept them. As they are and allow the universe worked at for you. A little bit longer thought were already almost an hour in saw. Other one more, and then I. GUESS WE'LL DO A. Romy poetry part to at some point in the in the next few weeks and I'll dive into some more of release poetry. I do WANNA. Finish off with something. That kind of wraps all of the stuff I've talked about so far up. And that is unfold your on myth. This is this is really really great. But don't be satisfied with stories. have. Things have gone with others. Unfold Your own myth. With that complicated explanation, so everyone will understand the passage. We have opened for you. Now you can take this in many different respects and I'll talk about a couple of interpretation of this. You know what you can do about. This is a say about this this poem. Is Number, one, the more literal meaning right. Don't be satisfied with stories how things have gone with others. So, for example, starting a business is a good example of this. You want to start a restaurant. Restaurants are good example, because a lot of them fail I think I think the failure rate for a restaurant is is well over fifty percent might be closer to seventy percent. the failure rate for a new restaurant. So. Let's say you want to start a restaurant, right. And it's your dream, right? I love cooking so having restaurant. Be Awesome. I love cooking I. Don't WanNa a restaurant though. But you open a restaurant. In Your Life Tree you. You went to culinary school. You've worked for other people's restaurants for years and you said that's enough right. I WanNa have my own restaurant. I'm a great cook. Have Great Personality so you know people will love coming there. I'll have friendly staff Oba. But then you start doing research like. Seventy percent of restaurants fail. Maybe maybe I shouldn't do this. Right because what if I fail? Remember this this is fear right you're you being afraid of something? That hasn't happened yet. So you have nothing to fear, it's not here yet. Right, this is difference between concept imagination. And Trust me. I'M GONNA. Go very deep into that when I talk about. One of my favorite parts of focus meditation and my favorite exercises, which is Stereo at a hand. We're GONNA. Talk about imagination in this regard. But seventy percent Orissa's fail. You know I want to go put my restaurant here. Because there was a restaurant there before, so you know the equipment is there. But but the restaurant was already there. WHY THE FAIL! Right was food bed. Was There Chef Ben? They have that serve his if I best service if I'm a bad chef. Right all these things that you do to prevent yourself from from following your dreams right from doing the things that you want to do. You're afraid because you're satisfied with other people's stories do not be satisfied with stories how things have gone with others? I think exactly what it means. Unfold around myth. That complicated explanation, so everyone understand the passage. We have open for you. Don't worry about. Not doing something because it failed for others, it might work for you. And you won't know that until you do. This. This is especially true for this kind of work right when you're into the kind of topics that I discussed on this podcast. You might be very well aware of these things. You might be afraid to try some of the things that you need to try to get. Higher levels of consciousness. because. You're afraid of what will happen. Right. You hear tons of horror stories about Iowa. For example. Right I've never done you. Oscar so I can only assume, but I've heard the stories and it doesn't stop me from wanting to try it if I if I ever decide I want to take that opportunity I will at right now I don't feel like I need to. Use some of these stories right people go into the jungle in Peru or Ecuador wherever and they try the Iowa and they're. Vomiting for twenty four hours straight on my God terrible. Hate many. That sounds awful. Why would anyone WANNA vomit for twenty four hours right? That's what you think to yourself. I don't want to do that. What about the good aspects of that? I. Don't WanNa I. Don't WanNa do dogs of any kind. I don't want to do mushrooms right? I'm not taking a heroic those. Whatever you know, my friend took ten grams and A. And now he's in a mental hospital. where he went crazy, he lost it. Was it that was it something else right? There are people who are predisposed to certain. Mental illnesses. Navy. It's just one of those things that kind of. Kicked it off. So you don't want to do it because somebody else you know went bad for them. Right the last time you your your friend, your coworker went to your boss arrays. And they got laughed out of their office. You don't WanNa. Get laughed out right. So. You're not going to bother asking. Ultimately the only way you get what you want, is you unfold your myth? This is This is actually it's a great saying I. Hear this. Here on the I'm bite podcasts for example. Great Show love listening to that diving deep into into the NAS sick aspect of things. But you know every episode starts with that or if it doesn't start with it at the Co, host, the host says it. I. Mean I want to say every episode. It sure feels that way. Basically, he says Right Your Gospel live. Your own myth right same kind of thing right you and gospel of your on. I think ultimately that's what this is about right. You don't just start reading. Religious texts and philosophy books and do meditation Psychedelics, and wherever else just just to see right? Because you're searching for something. Then what you're searching for is exactly this you want to unfold? You're on myth. Because your entire life. You've been living. Somebody elses myth. You You yourself are a myth. and. You want to know exactly what you are. I think we're GONNA end this episode of Romy there when about an hour or so, this is kind of the limit of where I want to have the link to of the podcast. Enjoy that let me know what you thought about it. You can find me of course on twitter at mine. The chemical instagram the chemical mind calm, and you can email me Martin at the chemical mind that come. Check out the new website. I just redid it. I think it looks great. but you know mostly. Don't care about the website. Because he just you just download it on apple, podcast or spotify or wherever else you get your podcast, so do that. Leave review if you'd like and most importantly. This one of the person. And see what they think. Maybe maybe they'll get something out of it. You know I do this for myself. But I do hope. that. It helps others. Many of us are so lost. And I don't consider myself an expert in any of these topics. I. Don't want to be a teacher or guru of any kind. But I do feel like there's so many people that feel like they're alone. In in the world in in particular in this kind of in this kind of work. You just need to remember that you are not alone the entire universe inside you. And that leaves me with De Funnel quote for me that I'll be reading tonight and it's. It's one of my favorites. I posted this on twitter couple of weeks ago ahead a great reaction I'm sure many people that the that saw this new the quota already. You are not a drop in the ocean. You are the entire ocean drop. Beautiful. That's. That is powerful. That is powerful. Don't think you have no power. You are the most powerful thing. Anyway so it's going to be hope you enjoyed it. I'll be back in a couple of days with the brand new episode. Thanks for listening and remember as always that you. Hit.

US Martin High School Rumi David Eick Youtube navy ARC Iowa Remy Zoroastrianism director Kardashian Vomiting Walmart WanNa twitter Vidana Focus Langer
Welcoming Prayer

Podcasts | Charlotte Center For Mindfulness

19:31 min | 8 months ago

Welcoming Prayer

"So I thought I knew what I was going to talk about this morning. Actually had it all planned out. Next week's can be very easy. And then yesterday I got an email from an organization that I get their newsletters. And IT'S NEW ORLEANS. Ation that works on teaching facilitation skills for difficult situations And this was the first newsletter actually gotten from that since I signed up and it had this wondrous story on it that just so resonated with me that I I took it with me. Yesterday's the day I go to the detention center And a shared it with the women there and it resonated with them So after that I felt like I needed to sit with. So what what in the story is like Speaking to me And what it brought up was The welcoming prayer. I don't know if any of y'all familiar with the welcome prayer. I've shared it in here once before I think and actually intended to share last week when we were talking about gratitude in difficult places How to be grateful in the midst of things being really hard But it didn't quite fit last week so I I didn't share it and I read the story and I thought Oh the welcoming prayer so the story. I don't know if this story is true or not. It reads as if it's a true account but that doesn't mean anything I have no idea In in this story There was some ten year old boy who was in a horrific car wreck and lost his left arm in the car wreck And trying to find a way to help him recover from his loss and and find his his talents in life again. His mother signed him up for judo. Classes With missing his arm. So he got into the class and really bonded with the teacher The teacher taught him the basics and then taught him one move and had him practice this one move over and over and over and over until you know probably about three or four months later the boy finally said. Don't I need to learn more you know? Isn't there something else. I should be learning and the teacher said No. You need to master this move keep at it keep working on it and so he kept add it until the teacher finally felt he was ready And he took him to a tournament And in the first round The boy found himself with an opponent. The he was fairly evenly matched with Judo thing I don't know what that is And then the the other boy Jumped at him. You know like took some move at at the boy and the boy did his one move and one so he went up to the next round. again pretty much. The exact same thing for a little stronger More experienced opponent It was harder to hang in there. The other boy got tired jumped in the. The boy did his one move and won the round. He did that until he worked his way all the way into the final by the time he got to the final. It was definitely an older more experienced stronger. Bigger opponent And Win The match started The referee kind of having a moment of worried for this one armed small boy as he saw him In the match actually tried to halt it and and Call it as unfair matching. The teacher spoke up and said let them do it. So it continued. The boy patiently waited until the bigger stronger opponent jumped in Adam. He did his one move and he won When the whole championship so on the drive home with the teacher he said to the teacher. Did I really just win that on one move that really just happen and the teacher said yes. It did and it happened for two reasons one because you have practiced that one move. Show your move. That's what we call. You have practice your move so well. The two are virtually a master at it. You know how to do this. This move at a level that none of them have mastered any of those multiple moves that they have the second reason. The only known defense for your move is for the opponent to grab your left arm so so the teachers final words were allow your weakness to become your strength and you will be fine in life powerful image. Allow your weakness to become your strength and you will be fine in life the Conversation that the detention center Was Really Beautiful. What came out after that not in intensive but it was it was people in the circle identifying their their weakness and a couple of them naming it out loud and you could see them flipping of how to allow this part of me. That has taken me down part of why I'm here. How do I actually reframe that? And allow that to become my strength. So the welcoming prayer. This is challenging prayer Just invite you to notice what comes up and actually let me just share a little bit about where this this comes from It comes from a woman named Mary. More so ASCII tried And she was one of the very close collaborators of Thomas. Keating for bringing up centering prayer contemplative prayer in the Christian tradition and The way I see that practice. is Mindfulness in in the Christian faith and tradition kind of Thomas Keating going back and finding the wellsprings of where this this Orientation of human mind allowed this kind of opening and expressing it so this comes very strongly out of that That tradition welcome welcome. Welcome I welcome everything that comes to me in this moment because I know it is for my healing. I welcome all faults. Feelings emotions persons situations and conditions. I let go of my desire for security. I let go of my desire for approval. I let go of my desire for control. I let go of my desire to change any situation condition person or myself I opened to the love and presence of God and the Healing Action and grace within. I actually keep a copy of this by my bed and I come to it very very often. I am much more likely to pull it off the nightstand before I get in bed or before I get out of bed first thing in the morning if things are more challenging the more challenging things are the the more unwanted I find myself orienting towards what is present in my life the more I read this and come to us. Some of you have heard about some particularly JUST CHALLENGING TEEN YEARS THAT. I've got the Experienced this was absolutely part of what helped me navigate in a way that offered healing space for me and my daughter And found and to find are flooding with each other A year ago this time I was working with newly diagnosed breast cancer. Read this twice a day at a minimum during that diagnosis Phase and trying to figure out where things were And many many other times. And it's remarkable. What I have always found a certain kind of relief when I let go of a fight with what already is. And what's here and I instead find that. Radical acceptance of. This is the condition of this moment and there is a possibility right in the heart of this condition. As it is in this moment that I can put my feet down and walk my life in a way that matters in a way that allows this condition to help me be stronger and live more of who I want to be and how I want to be in relationship to the people I care about and the world around me the place that people get confused with this kind of prayer the guest house Riches saying the same thing is I mean. Wisdom arises in many different forms in many different ways. Rumi the Guest House that we meditated with in our opening practice. is the welcoming prayer versed. A thousand years ago The place that people get confused is it has nothing to do with be happy when things are bad Putting a smile on your face when it's really hard Or you know go out there and look for adversity because you will become stronger in the face of it. It has nothing to do with any of that kind of Pollyanna or the. Don't worry be happy Sort of mindset Or the power of positive thinking. You know it's not it's not any of that And I don't WANNA put down the power of positive thinking too much. There's a place for it but that's not what this is about this is about a square on looking at the conditions with a sense of being grounded in wisdom and kindness with being grounded in a knowing of possibility existing in any and every moment when. I find my way of being compassionately. Strong and centered with. What is hard the only other thing I want to say about this prayer is. I'm more likely to remember it when things are hard. I'm more likely to come to it when things are hard but the reality is I need it always in the mundane kind of more routine stress Many of you have heard about the puppy in the house at the moment. Been reading this a fair amount And it's really sweet to see how I think. Last week I was sharing around puppy relationship where where I was noticing the rabbit hole the useless rabbit hole of what was I thinking about bringing a puppy home. They should've known this would never work No help going down there. So it was like chemistry ending on the edge holding my foot in and feeling the tug of the rabbit hole but working with us And learning to welcome and Appreciate this beautiful beautiful animal in our house that I'm very grateful that we pulled out of a hard situation and gave her home. What I'm finding is This re understanding of the gift she is offering to me in our house of learning to not get frazzled with the more routine kind of regular life stress and to care about how I meet that as well And so it just really invites you to explore and it's always easier to start with the small things not the big things. What would it be like? And you can google the welcoming prayer. I'll send it out as well. But if you just google the welcoming prayer And you want the version by Mary. Mercer Hausky Fine you know pick one thing and what happens if you offer this orientation To whatever that is and find out for yourself. Is there a place that this is a service for you? So let's sit for a minute you sit. I invite you to see if you can bring up one scenario in your life not the big thing but a small irritation frustration. That is even if minor is unwanted. Take a moment to feel into whatever scenario. You're coming up with and feel into when you're not paying attention and you let the Mig della the survival center. The brain guide the show of how you relate to this thing. What does that feel like? What kind of thoughts go on in the mind emotions associated with it felt senses in the body? What effect does that have on the day? Now imagine welcome. Welcome welcome offering this possibility. Right to the unwanted Rumi says of the guests. Arriving in the guesthouse. Each has been set as a guide on the beyond. If you were to imagine for just a moment a truth in that for you this irritation has been sent to help you find your Rudeness Your Strength. Your knowing how to come back to center. Maybe there's a glimmer of possibility of doing re orienting to your own. North Stars of healing with happens in the mind the heart and the body with that. What effect does this have on your life or maybe even simply your day and that moment?

Thomas Keating Mary Guest House google Judo Rumi Adam thousand years four months ten year
106 - Rumi, Personal Healing, & Fighting Injustice with Love (feat. Melody Moezzi)

CXMH

51:13 min | 2 months ago

106 - Rumi, Personal Healing, & Fighting Injustice with Love (feat. Melody Moezzi)

"You're listening to this podcast. See a major is a podcast at the intersection of faith and mental health. Hey welcome back to the show. I always like Schnee. What the Shit like. Hey welcome back to see a comedian. Podcast about faith mental health. Sure I'm one of your hosts Robert who is a therapist and I'm joined by my co host. Dr Holly Oxygen Learn News a social worker in an associate dean professor associate dean garbage. Well it's Friday Holly. How are you doing today? I must have your title. Can you correct me? You're great I'm doing alright. I'm doing okay robber. It is yes the title is that I am the Associate Dean for research. In Faculty development at the Garland School. Social work at Baylor. University has asked see too many words. I know it's hard not got the I got the court of You. Did you got you've earned as will thank you. How are you doing on this Friday recording? I'm doing well I'm doing well. Today is Kelly and Oliver's last day of the semester. Ooh And so. Yeah and so. We've been finding little ways to celebrate this morning and just try to start finding ways tickets to transition into the summer. But that's what we've been doing today. What about you how are you doing? What have you all been up to? Yeah I'm doing well we Gray doesn't go to form school so there's none of that to celebrate. I know our schools in Georgia finished last week. I know you were talking amount. Do like celebrating that. Do you have traditions? I know people have always done for when school ends. Do you have. Y'All have traditions that you have always done that. You're trying of how to do man. That is a great question so we do we have. I mean first off. We have like a little sign that we do that on the first day school we have you know some details about each of my kiddos and on the last day. There's like some other questions about the both of them and usually we still that out the night before the last day. School an take their picture before they go after school and And so this side by side. Yeah Yeah Yeah so And I love that because I love capturing some of these little things like your favorite song and favorite book and the things they wanted do over the summer and favorite memory of the year and things like that but yet we move slow today and we had a nice big branch Shin. We filled it out together sitting at the kitchen table inbetween. Kelly's like online lessons and things she had if allowed and so usually that's normally what we do and then what we've also been doing like on Kelly's last day school or the day after so we pack up the car and we head out to South Carolina. And you know this year that is not what we're doing so so. I was just telling you before how Kellyanne offensive time yesterday laying out on the HAMMOCK and trying to dream up what you know what we're gonNA WANNA do this summer. And how to fill our time in ways that you know are just good for our family and new rhythms and just kinda living into this next transition this next wave of uncertainty and what this feels like for our family moving into the summer. So yeah what about what about you. I mean I know grace still too little for those traditions. But is there anything that you used to do as a kid growing up at the end? That's what I was trying to think when you text me earlier that you having like a end of the end of the school brunch at the that. That's pretty cool. But we used to always. My parents always took and got us ice cream on the first day of school are fine and then like into into college they would then. Mo didn't exist but they would like no deposit fifteen bucks into our bank accounts for me my bra for and so. We did that with gray when he started daycare back. I guess the fall of last year last fall. Yeah we took him and he didn't he didn't understand right right bunch of pictures of him. You know eating ice cream and stuff like that and so we did that at the beginning which I think is a cool one to kind of carry on a slice cream but also we did every year on the first day of my last Mr of Grad School. My Dad sent Brooke some money and so I think keeping that is something that will probably try and do but nothing on the end. So I don't know maybe that's celing as gray goes into actual grades at some point of. Maybe we'll have to try and think about that's awesome. Yeah it's I mean it's hard in each what I'm realizing to with Kellyanne Oliver. Is that each of them. Wanted to for things to end the year. But you know we're just GONNA be creative. Spent some time this transition a twenty twenty to spend a little time to think through and figure out what we WANNA do this summer so that it feels like summer doesn't just feel like a constant continuation you know like there's still on the yeah. Man is so wild. Wow should we shift into talking a little bit about this week's episode? You tell us a little bit about this week's episode. Yes sure so this week we have melody noisy. On 'em she has just recently published a book called the Rumi Prescription. How in ancient mystic poet Chaim modern manic life and I had actually come across melodies. Work a little while ago. I think I've talked about on the show before I just I love it roomies poetry. I head discovered it in Of Twenty ten from one of my mentors In Grad School who had introduced me to release work and Ramiz poetry is just woven throughout my teaching and some of the writing. I do and I just really love his work so anyway so that is kind of what. Got Me curious about this book and then somehow we just connected. I don't remember I think maybe it was twitter or something but it was just melody is just been such a great voice to get to learn from and listen to and her experience regarding mental health and mental illness particularly with her diagnosed with bipolar disorder and the ways in which room is poetry. He's Kinda spoken to her and she's kind of worked through his poetry translating and writing about it. I don't know I just. I Adore Melody. I Adore her book. I cannot say enough good about it. She speaks so beautifully about her experiences and about roomies work overall. And I can't say enough good about it. She throughout this book she takes these general human conditions that we all tend to struggle with and she pairs roomies poetry with each of them in such beautiful way while weaving in her story. Yeah what about you were there any takeaways or any any thoughts you had about this one? Yeah I think a lot of listeners are probably similar spaces me where you say okay. I've heard of Romy of a couple things that quotes that I could think of but I'm not super familiar. Will I still enjoy listen? You're absolutely right so this is a conversation where I went in thinking like. I don't know a ton about roomy and so will I enjoy this as much as all of our conversations and I absolutely did write them in said she really humanize it talks about her story and things like that and I loved it and so I'll say you know even if you say I'm on I don't really know too much of his poetry. Definitely stick around. Melody does a phenomenal job. It's not all about this that you've you may or may not be familiar about her. Yeah it's really a good conversation. Yeah Alright while without further ado we will get out of the way so that y'all can listen to this episode. Where Melody Moise? Hey this week. We have melody Moisy on. She is an Iranian American Muslim author attorney activists and a visiting professor of creative nonfiction at the University of North Carolina Wilmington. She is a graduate of Wesleyan University and Emory University School of Law School Public Cal. She's written for the New York Times. Washington Post The Guardian and she's appeared on NPR C. N. BBC PBS and more Melody Lists Between Cambridge Massachusetts and Wilmington North Carolina. She's the author of how tall and hyacinths a bipolar life and wore on air real stories of American Muslims and her latest book. Which is what we're GONNA be talking about. Today is called the Rumi Prescription. How in ancient mystic poet changed my modern Manic Life Melody? Thank you so much for joining us today. So good to have you here. Thanks so much for having me holly absolutely. Is there anything that we missed in your bio? I think it's funny. I wouldn't people read my bio. Sometimes I'm like who is that person didn't I mean especially if someone with a mental health issue like their years of my life that are completely empty but I sound really good the way you introduced me but you don't introduce the year the empty years. Those are nothing I got up brushed my teeth and took showers and stuff. You know so that was a success. But there's I think people don't think about that right look. It's not often thought about that all that there's a lot of other stuff there too. Would it be like if we all started writing? Really the most honest by antibodies. Where it's like. I love it. Welcome Robert He made nachos yesterday all our biosphere gonNA become really. I I love it. I love it while we definitely want to dive into the Rumi Prescription today. But I would love for you to tell us about your backstory. That kinda lead up to writing this book touching on the previous books that you've written and what inspired you to write this most recent one well so two things. I grew up in Dayton Ohio as Iranian American Muslim. And that experience like it was a really great place to grow up and I think the division that I saw happening after the two thousand sixteen election especially Was something for you. Know for a lot of people that Activated them and certainly activated me and a lot of ways But none of it would have been possible if I hadn't already had this Intense mystical experience That happened While I was acutely manic so having bipolar disorder it happened to coincide for me and for a lot of people as well with this Mystical side Where I was able to have these beautiful mystical experiences and I had to In my life that have been extraordinary because they've I've felt more connected to every living thing on earth than I ever had before it was very much like people describe psychedelic experiences though. I've never I don't even drink alcohol like don't do drugs But it was a beautiful experience and what happened. Was the medical community. Sort of stole that from me by saying this is not valid. You this is hyper religiosity There's an actual word for it And I wasn't being hyper religious when I was in the hospital as a Muslim. There's a certain way we pray and I think the mental health community in Dayton Ohio was not in Atlanta. Georgia was also hospitalized. I don't think they were particularly familiar with that And they'd only seen it. Maybe on television so to them that seemed threatening right But I don't think it's all people of Faith I. I've talked to people of all different sorts of faiths In the mental health community is not good at helping us through that That was part of the problem. Part of the problem was also the faith community was not so great either. My faith community was like some of them actually told me you know. This is jen which basically means like you're possessed you need an exorcism No not possessed. I need medication. You know so it was like the ignorance on. Both sides was intense an impressive. And as somebody if you're in the midst of a manic episode or you know you're dealing with serious mental illness you lose a lot of credibility really quickly so in any case being after the experience of being hospitalized. That was the first time that I actually started taking this poetry seriously that I started understanding this poetry that my dad had been reciting to me my entire life and that I had taken for granted and rolled my eyes about every time recited a poem. I think like a lot of kids. I I was just brag about it. I just this this is basically my. Roomie is my dad's addiction And like a lot of children of addicts. I grew to resent the object of my father's addiction. Which was this beautiful poetry That every lesson I've ever learned has been accompanied from him has been accompanied with one of these poems so eventually once. I had that mystical experience suddenly. I knew what Roomie was talking about and not be. I lost the ability to read at that point after the mystical and Manic episode and for days I couldn't read and that was when just intuitively. I was able to realize how deeply connected I am in. All of us are to one another and to something greater than us but also that some something that lives within us We have different names for it. But that doesn't mean it's different. You know what I mean. Yeah they do yup. Well I I love that you kinda started moving towards talking about those mystical experiences and I do actually have some questions about that a little bit later but I I do WanNa Kinda start with just talking about the role that your father had in this book and what a beautiful role he had continually offering this deep wisdom throughout and in fact I was going back through some of my highlights and I think your dad may have made up like quotes. The he had may have taken out a large majority of my highlighting in the book. So I'm GonNa tell him that he'll be so happy. Please thank him for his wisdom the gift of his wisdom. That's threaded through this book. But I want to get them on the line. I know I just wanted to get him on the line so he can read some of these verses to us. I mean but we'll definitely have you melody read some of but anyway so as you know just as he pulled out these verses of roomies poetry. I do WANNA Kinda First. Poson just creative face to tell us a little bit about him and your mum Jasbi and who can a day? Are you in in this book? So I'm incredibly lucky. I grew up as the daughter of these people My Dad has name is Ahmad and I've always called him that in my they're both Iranians They both grew up in Iran. They both came to the United States. After or I guess during the Revolution. I was a fetus during the so-called Islamic revolution and they came to America is a dream kind of place. Where things that weren't possible after the revolution in Iran war hopefully possible here and their dream was for us to go to school and to have the same education anybody else would get With or without a Y chromosome And they were very adamant about that and they raised us with our faith being education And I didn't realize until later that that was also Islam within Islam. At you know I had an Islamic upbringing but it was very very centered around roomy And they're just both really extraordinary people both physicians My Mom is a pathologist. So she did autopsies. My Dad was an Obgyn so he deliver babies so we had both spectrums like the entire spectrum of covered Between the two of them so growing up in and seeing them both do work that had purpose. I think was also helpful especially to see my mom doing it and loving her work as well so I was very lucky to be raised by these two people And in this country I love that I love how you just write about them in this book to. It's so beautiful to thank you for sharing a little bit with us about them. Thank you also write quite a bit about this ancient Persian poet whose name is roomy and he has a much longer name that I will let you introduce to our listeners but I would love for you to tell us a bit about him. He was an a little bit about about his poetry. Our listeners particularly in in this link that it has that is deeply grounded in love and an offers a bridge across so many different religions that I'll touch on a little bit later but anyways yeah tell us about roomy in who he is yes so roomie who we Iran people who speak Farsi. We call him Mowlana which means our master and he's a thirteenth century. Persian Sufi mystic poet. So Sufis are the mystics of Islam but also you can run into Jewish Sufis so it's confusing and there's like all different kinds of fees It's sort of I. If you're familiar with Taoism where they say at the beginning I think the beginning of the Dow teaching is like the Dow that has an ISM is not really the Dow Sufism is very much the same way except for now. It hasn't ISM and it doesn't really work that way. But that is basically who he was. He was the first of What we know as the whirling dervishes though he never He inspired that order of Sufis but he he didn't found it. It was founded after his death. So it wasn't that he was saying come Worl- like me. He was very much encouraging people to do what was right for them and for him. Warling was a centering. Act FOR HIM BUT In terms of there's so much about his life and history that is men that we don't even know that a lot of it is legend. Franklin Lewis wrote a great book. That's giant it's all it's called. Romy. I believe it's like East and West something like that but I think the actual title I forget the subtitle but the actual title is Roomy But this book is more of a personal take on how not just learning his poetry. It's more like because this poetry was important for my dad. It was a way for me to get to know who he is and connect with him on in a really deep spiritual way that I really didn't anticipate especially because like I said I wasn't raised in a incredibly religious household the religion was and like I said this poetry. So yeah so yeah. The book focuses more on what Rumi has has done for me in my life now and is not so much like a history of his life and my familiarity with it. Isn't that of an academic? It's just that of somebody who is sort of in love with as poet. I love that I love just the way that you explain that and I totally understand like there's just that general understanding of Romy and what he's done for many of us on an individual level but in a group level as well and I think that that's so beautifully. Paints the picture of who he is. There is one quote that I pulled out that you had written in this book that I think really speaks to the essence of roommates poetry. And and and what it offers to us a new right regarding these of poetry you say they're meant to be applied repeatedly in groups and in unison through song and dance whenever possible beyond superficial. Wurley divisions toward eternal secret connections. It is no coincidence. For instance that this poetry exists in a language relatively free from gender with no she or he know her or him for rooms rhymes live the divine save no room for petty partitions instead they invite us to tear down our barriers and unite us through love. And then you highlight one at your translations where you right of his poetry where you say. Love Nation of origin is separate from all creeds. For the levers the beloved comprises all religions and nationalities. Get that really deep deep down. We all get it. They got the idea even just like God is small to fit into one. Tiny religion is almost comical to me But yeah I think I think humans need a route you know. And religion is is the route that we've created and we're flawed so a lot of our religions expressions of them are deeply flawed. Unfortunately Yep no answer good. Yeah so you do you write about and we mentioned it a little bit earlier but you write about beautifully right navigating the nuance between a mystical experience in a psychiatric episode. Which I think we have a fair amount of mental health care providers who listen to the show as well as obviously people that work in other areas But that might be kind of jarring thing for them to hear right how to understand the difference between those two. Can you talk about those experiences for you? And maybe how they differ where you new in some cases. I needed immediate care. Yeah so the thing about these mystical experiences is I was never. I'm not a monk. I never trained for this So to not train for a mystical experience is not the best place to be So most Sufis will basically go through prayer and charity and fasting and a lot of things till they get to the point where they have some sort of mystical experience. If they do I had not done any of that stuff. I just stumbled into this mystical experience which we call fennel which means the annihilation of the EGO. But it's the same thing in all these mystical traditions the ideas to annihilate your ego. Because the idea that there's a self separate from the beloved The divine as we recognize it is a that's a true delusion So I think what ended up happening for me is initially this beautiful mystical experience. But then it morphed the first time I was able to have it without it morphing into anything but it was a very short experience The second time I was not so lucky the second time I fell into clinical mania and I medication I'm a strong proponent of medication for people who need it like me and I also needed spiritual guidance. And that's what was really hard for the American healthcare system to understand that something could be simultaneously a clinical experience and also mystical one Or just a spiritual when it all right so this in the strong desire to separate the clinical from the spiritual And say you know these are two very separate things and they can't overlap It's you know life isn't like that it's not. It's not that easy and it's frustrating to talk about when I first initially wrote the since. My last book was a memoir about having bipolar disorder. Some people were like. Oh have you cured it with roomy and I'm like no? Please don't get the wrong message here. I'M NOT SAYING THAT. I've cured my bipolar with Rumi. I'm just saying that poetry has a place. Faith has a place and our medical system doesn't recognize that even though study after study shows that people have faith do better when they're allowed to practice when they're allowed to engage in whatever ritual is meaningful for them and yet still we. We looked down on the clinical community. Just the medical community looks down on that As being less than or not valid even though there are these studies that are you know control They still don't really Allow us to have those experiences without some skepticism on their part. Oh my gosh sister you are like just spur reaching to me right now. This is this is actually like the heartbeat of the research that I do around equipping mental healthcare providers to pay attention to client spirituality recognizing exactly what you just said that we have data that shows that it actually can improve outcomes if we pay attention to it so God bless you for doing that work because it's so important that there is actual data that people can look to because they won't believe us on faith And and this is really important that that work gets done in a serious way by people who were qualified by actual PhD's so It matters thank you that means a lot. I thought there was one point in the book where you write about this. So beautifully at from your perspective in your experience where you really put out this gorgeous call for us to consider spirituality in mental health treatment And if it's okay I'd actually I'd love for you to read. This bet. Sure though the conscious mind may be able to forget being torn from its roots. The soul cannot trying to heal a broken brain while dismissing a fractured soul is like trying to build a house while dismissing the shoddy foundation build your house on quicksand and it will sink no matter how sturdy or stunning the roof for all the pain. My mind has caused me for all. It's extraordinary and ordinary figures. I cannot dismiss the fact that it is also summoned alight transforming my wounds guiding my steps imparting a distinct spiritual hunger if not aptitude a compassion creativity a connectedness. I love it so much. I think it's so beautifully illustrates why we do need to be paying attention to this area of our lives. Ns Mental Health treatment. And I think it's such a gift that you were able to wrap words around that so beautifully. Thank you for that. Thank you that the reference there. I think maybe the listeners would want to know. Is this a poem? That combeback says translated. The wound is a place where the light enters you Which is not exactly precise to the translation but my translation is your wounds may summon the light here too but the sacred light does not come from you and I. I should've honestly it doesn't it doesn't. It's it's the idea that only you can heal yourself that you you come from. Nothing is what roomies speaking out against here. He's saying that you're wherever you're wounded. It calls the beloved to you. But don't think you're the one doing the healing yourself because that's that's where ego gets in the way like if we think we're the ones responsible and I think that's why there's such a conflict between the mental health community in the spiritual community because one wants to be right and they think to be right. The other has to be wrong. They don't realize that they could possibly both be right. Yeah no then I yep. I think that's so good so in the book you have in each of these chapters like a diagnosis which is more of a general human condition diagnosis. And then you have these translations that you've done of roomies poetry to pair with it in you. Call these the prescription and for each. I WanNa make it very clear that in this book that you're not saying in this is what I'm picking up is that you're not saying that the poetry will replace medication particularly for these clinical issues in fact slightly. Yeah in fact you even include medication alongside poetry in prayer in helping you heal while emphasizing again at that distinction between clinical level illnesses and more common societal level illnesses that as you know are rooted in ego ambition and prompting fear and insecurity are different. So you talk about these two is being different. Do you mind just unpacking not a little bit and then we'll go into some of the chapters that you write about sure. Yeah the I think ultimately for all of the prescriptions it comes down to love. They're all different incarnations of love in a all the diagnoses are different incarnations of ego and fear As an as a kind of expression of Ego Rumi has this notion that you know you're already so much there's a poem where he says. I'll I'll read it in Farsi. You can hear the music of it. Zach Talla Gusty hold a Vati which means you went out in search of gold foreign wide but all along you were gold on the inside. So the thing that we're seeking Is already within us. And that's that's you know that's why you see in children right like they children already know. These things intuitively We're taught out of this low right like I I. It's hard to meet a child who doesn't have a sense of wonder and and to me. That's that comes from something and I think what's divided people so much is giving it a name and saying this is God and if you don't believe in that there's there's something wrong with you As opposed to saying what do you believe in? Do you believe in nature. Do you believe in science. Do you believe in something bigger than you. And whatever you name it. It's a force that you can feel. That's that's part of your intuition in unfortunately like we are very left brain kind of society that and I think that fulfills a Lotta masculine stereotypes. I think it has a lot to do with misogyny. Just what is acceptable? And what is considered powerful and strong rate like being vulnerable and showing emotion is considered a sign of weakness in our culture and and a whole lot of cultures. And I think that ends up hurting us in in my solution to all of these these different diagnoses in there. It's not exactly a solution But the prescriptions that remains providing. They aren't saying you know. Stop being angry like he doesn't say stop being angry. He says feel like go into that. What is that anger really about? And once you dig deeper into it a lot of times you'll find an anger is what I have the most trouble with but You'll find that that there's ego underneath that. I tell a story in the book about giving a talk at A. Lgbtq Muslim retreat. Where I was the only a straight suspender woman there and I was talking about mental health. And I've been an ally of the LGBTQ Muslim community for a long time. Which is why. Obviously they invited me. But I remember there was some people who took issue with my being there and I remember one girl coming up to me when women young woman and she sort of looked like me and I call her in the buck. My d'appel gang tournaments big hair brown skin like she. She looks a lot like me. So it's almost like a mirror and she's so angry she's livid that. I'm even there an asking you know I need to make space. And she's right and so many ways but. I'm so angry that like how dare you. I've worked for like the only death threats that I've received a result of my work with Lgbtq community as an ally and specifically the Muslim community. So I feel like I've earned the right to view there but my anger wasn't about the cause or injustice or anything like that. My anger in that moment was just like why? Are you being mean to me? Like I'm better than this. I deserve better than this. And you know when you go down to the real source of it especially really strong emotions. Often you'll find the EGO is at the heart of it and that that's tough for me because I have a whole lot of anger that I think I'm very righteous about. I think I'm right and that's so dangerous. And I think especially you know after twenty sixteen a lot of us had this sense of righteousness that wasn't earned in part of writing. The book to is in this moment of such great division Is just to say stop it like I. I'm so sick of IT and I. I'm very progressive. I'm very liberal. I have friends who voted for trump. I have one friend. Who's a Muslim woman who voted for trump? She grew up in West. Virginia I grew up in Ohio. We're very good friends. This has not torn apart although a lot of our mutual friends have unfriendly her. And I don't think that's a solution I don't i. I know that her the way she voted was the result of some trauma that she's experienced. But I don't see that as a reasoning for sort of suspending the love. I have for her. I feel like it's greater than that and I think we have suspended love and we want medals for it. Like we've said I'm disowning my uncle because he's you know he voted for trump. Or He's this way or that way and I I just. I don't know if that's a solution I do. I really don't think that it is a solution. I think it's it's hurtful and I and I know a lot of I've heard this from White Christian Americans like telling me that they've disowned. They're Islamophobic family member and I'm like I don't want you to do that I would rather you say hey. I have friends who are Muslim. Maybe you should meet them. You know and I'm not saying like I don't want them to intellectualize with the islam-phobic uncle but I do think there is a way to reach these people and it's not by cutting them out of our lives and that. I think is what people are doing and unfortunately like for my white Christian American allies you have so much power. You have so much privilege to be able to talk to your uncle. Because he's not gonNA listen to me you know so. Why can't you be that bridge? I understand it's work for you but it's also worked for me to deal with your uncle and I'm not in a position where I can change that but you are and I know it's hard work but it's worth it and that to me is what real ally ship is about. I think those two things are so linked to the second half of what you just said and you started it by talking about. Getting underneath are like heightened emotional reactions right in saying okay if I can get underneath this. What's what's under here. What are the bigger things happening? And I think that's the part that is so hard if you see something and you say hey so and so posted this therefore like we're done because that made me super angry and that's so easy to do and they're certainly like I'm GonNa look at things less or whatever I mean like I barely on facebook because it tends to be a different Rita thing then my twitter feed right so like you know. Everyone's trying to stay healthy but then not just saying okay. I'm done with you as a whole human being because of this right but can we get underneath there and like find kind of the like if we dig down deep enough where all on the same planet you know exactly exactly and I and I really believe that in. It's been helpful for me to realize that a lot of the racism misogyny and all of the things that affect my life directly as an Iranian American Muslim woman. All of these things affect my life so I'm invested in them but I when I realized that somebody else's racism isn't about me but it's about pain that they have it's about how easy it is to blame me or my parents are immigrant. You know like my parents took your job. Well you know this this idea that you know you lost your job. There's pain there And as a result of that it's easy to just put it on someone else so I think that's just a fault in logic. I don't think that's a fault in spirit but when you turn it into that it what ends up happening is it becomes a Fulton's Berry I think we push people in directions Whether we know it or not and right now I think sort of the as woke as they come. I proud of being. Whoa I teach a lot of millennials but I do think this obsession with microaggressions for instance may not be helping us in the macro aggression sense right like if we're obsessed so much on these failures in language The may be using language that is outdated or incorrect An immediately labeling that racist or sexist or whatever. I'm not sure that really helps us? Because I'm not sure that gets to the core of the issue in the first place and immediately shuts down conversation. So I I think the labeling of it that quickly without coming out with love and kindness and with some sense of there trauma behind this there is pain behind this and I understand pain. I am connected with pain so if you accept that each human being each animal like all of us are interconnected. There's a part a divine part within all of us. You have to recognize that if you heard another person. Then you're hurting yourself. You know and I and I think of sort of someone like Donald Trump who I would say denies my humanity as a person in ways right I. He wants to ban people for my country for my religion. Like he's not very interested in that but I also like what a poor little insecure man that that this is what he's obsessing with something or if you think of like really homophobic people right who end up being homosexual in the end right like that is is a trope at this point. You know what I mean so when you're getting mad at somebody for being so hateful it may be that what they hate. The most has nothing to do with you but as something inside of them that they hate And they need to deal with that and if you can help them by being a mirror for them and letting them see who they really are like. What a gift to be able to do that. And that's that's what true friendship is about and Rumi says the faithful or mirrors for one another and not. That's my my father was a mere for me and I became a mirror for him and I think in every relationship. You can accomplish that But it takes work. It takes effort. That's really gotten I'm glad you looped in that piece about being a mirror for others and I think you articulated all of that so well when you know many of those topics that you unpack just now could easily have been very tricky to navigate just the way that you unpacked it. You just articulated it also. Well thank you for that and q for the opportunity so we right within each of the chapters as we mentioned earlier. There's a diagnosis in a prescription. And I I mean. I wish that we could go through every single one of these. But I'm really GONNA encourage our listeners to go pick up the book and walk through each of these as melody at talks about the diagnosis of wanting and isolation in haste and depression and anxiety and anger and fear in disappointment in pride and she unpacked so beautifully. The your journey your pilgrimage. Right through this alongside. What roomy kind of nods to each of these like ego diagnosis? I guess I don't know how are human condition diagnoses Bengo. Yeah tell me I'd be curious like which of these. Maybe which of these the most difficult to write? And maybe which one was the most life-giving as you wrote through it I think you know the the Depression Chapter. I talk about a friend of mine high lost to suicide so that was an I actually recently went to Greensboro and spoke. This is the last event I could do before We were all staying at home And I spoke there about and I in this is the only place where actually read part of that chapter about her and she writing about her was really really hard In my dad's notion of my losing this friend to depression in him saying you know she wasn't trying She wasn't trying to kill herself. She was trying to kill the depression. And the problem is you can't kill the depression without killing yourself. You have to welcome it. You have to welcome emotion every emotional guest Into your home and he really has a poem that I know. A lot of people are familiar with in my translation of it was welcome. Every guests no matter how grotesque be hospitable to calamity as to ecstasy to anxiety as to tranquility. Today's misery sweeps your home. Clean Making way for tomorrow's Felicity. So that means you you welcome every single one of those guests rate and your hospitable to them right and I and I've never really rolled out the red carpet for my version. I'm not I'm not a fan of it and certainly I wasn't a fan of what it did to my friend Mary And being able to see that there was a lesson in that that there's a lesson in all of these emotions in the it's not you're not gonna read you know you're not gonNA reach after about depression than be like okay. I'm never going to be depressed. That's not happening But this is a constant Effort that you have to really work hard to welcome guests and so that that chapter was really hard for me to write because of that My relationship with Mary in losing her But I think one of the most helpful chapters for me and all of them were helpful in different ways but the one around anger because I am naturally go there And it's what I've made a career out of. I'm an activist. You know. My anger has led me to. I mean that's why I right 'cause I get really angry about stuff and that's how I make sense of it So obviously there's a used to anger. I'm a huge fan of Audrey. Lord I believe the anger has a use a just like all of these emotions. Have A us? But you can't let it use you and I was letting it use me. I was getting so angry to the point that it was burning me on the inside and I realized that it was because I was focusing my fight against injustice on my hatred for oppressors instead of my love for the oppressed and so I didn't have to change my actions. I was still fighting for the oppressed. I was fighting injustice but I was doing it from a completely different perspective recognizing that love is our most powerful weapon against injustice not anger. Anger is useful But love is so much more powerful. You can't win someone over with your anger but you can win someone over with your love so good. That's good. I appreciate you You're not torture friend Maryann I am just. I'm terribly sorry about that. That had happened and I thank you that she is no longer with us. I think the way that you wrote about her honors or so beautifully and one of the things that you just kind of mentioned noted was this idea of welcoming guests that you want to warmly. Welcome depression half that. You're like yes but I you right in one at one point in there that you said welcoming guests does not mean you love depression. It means that you feel it so that are so you can let it teach you something Right I just thought that was so beautiful. How you phrased that. So not that chapter on anger I could feel it. I felt it I mean. I think we're all feeling. There was a lot of anger in this moment. Right now is such a great example of all of all of these lessons in a here like chapter two is about isolation So just being in this moment. It's kind of funny. I feel like God is laughing at my ambition because it's not like I got rid of my ambition but it used to be you know as an author you could count on Amazon to deliver a book in two days. But it's like now it'll twenty account. Is that meal out of. Can you slow down enough for twenty days to get a hardcover book and I never thought I would release the this book in the midst of something like best an I I'm sure I'm not alone in that. There's a lot of people in the same position But I do feel really blessed and lucky that the message of this book is useful right now in ways that it might not have been otherwise you know so I'm glad that people are finding comfort in it and one thing that we like to ask. People is about their their hope for their work rice. So whether it's specific to this book or your work as a whole may be both say you know you're putting all his time and energy in what is your hope for this book My hope is that it helps people feel less alone that it provides a community and it helps people create their own communities. Yeah Yeah and it not just for you know. Obviously I have my hope specifically for my fellow Iranians and Muslims who are reading this in terms of reclaiming this inheritance That has been taken from us in ways. You know a lot of the translations of Rumi Really Erase Islam from his poetry But hopefully being able to infuse that back in allow people who have been traumatized to be able to look at their own culture their own background in find healing and resilience and hope in that. And I my my hope is also that it. Doesn't you know for Iranians like me. Yes I want them to come back to romy. I want them to come back to this literary inheritance. We have but my hope is that. If you're Irish and you read it takes you back to your Irish heritage You back because there are mystics roomies in every culture It's just we. I think there's a special kind of healing you find when you go back to your own routes like that and I certainly did. And we're it's really and I write in the book about intergenerational trauma which you know. We love to talk about as academics and stuff but We don't often talk about intergenerational resilience and I think that's just as powerful and just as important and deserves as much attention Same with post traumatic growth versus post traumatic stress There are ways that we can respond to our experiences even intergenerational That can be healing instead of traumatizing. I hope people find healing where they knew trauma before so good. We'll friends. You can connect with melody at Melody. Boise DOT COM or on twitter at Melody Noisy and an instagram at melody dot noisy. We'll have the links for all of those our show notes You can connect with Robert at Robert. Dash FOUR DOT COM or on any social media at Robert Four you can connect with me at Holly Oxygen Dot Com or twitter instagram at hollyoaks. Sandler Melody so very much for joining us today. This was such a gift to get to listen to and learn from you. Jimmy thank losing much of thank you. I appreciate you having me on an just addressing this topic. I appreciate the work that you're doing. It's really important that we be able to blend science and spirituality in ways that we haven't before and it's GonNa take people who know the science to do it so I'm really grateful to you for that. Thanks for listening to this podcast. One a score some major brownie points. Five stars in an honest review on itunes follow us on social media at CSM H podcast and emails with questions comments and interview requests at CSM. H PODCAST AT G MAIL DOT COM.

EGO twitter depression Mowlana bipolar disorder Rumi Prescription Donald Trump Gray Robert Georgia United States Kellyanne Oliver Kelly Iran Mary And manic episode Associate Dean for research Garland School Dr Holly Oxygen Kellyanne
862: How roOomy Is Virtually Changing The Real Estate Industry

The Tech Blog Writer Podcast - Inspired Tech Startup Stories

20:26 min | 1 year ago

862: How roOomy Is Virtually Changing The Real Estate Industry

"Welcome to the tank bloke writer podcast, your guy to future Tech Trends and innovation in a language. You understand now over to your host Neal Hughes. Welcome back to the tech log Greider podcast. Now when I was first finding my fate and indeed the format for these daily tech podcast, I spoke to Peter, who is the CEO of a company called Rumi, which is the world's leading three day VR an AR technology company in the interior, decorating space. Roomie is the only instance dilution as far as I'm aware that converts to d- it property images into a three D virtually staged room design increasing home shopper engagement and also conversion rates. Now, fast forward to twenty nine teen and we're not talking about apple Google and Amazon, taking augmented reality very seriously. So I wanted to catch up with Peter and learn. How roomy is progressing on also what he's being upto in the last four years since we spoke, so buckle up, and hold on tight. So I can be meal is all the way to some fronts. Cisco so we can speak with who is the CEO at roomie. So massive warm. Welcome back to the show here too. We I spoke on episode thirty five way back in two thousand sixteen and eight hundred and five episodes later, we'd have more listeners all over the world. So can you tell the listeners a little about who you are? And what you do for anyone that missed that first conversation. Yeah. Absolutely. Neil and great meeting again. So I'm Peter CEO and co founder of Rumi. I'm from the Netherlands, we started the company in the Netherlands, we took a to DOS almost five years ago. So last time we spoke in two thousand sixteen. We spoke mostly about our propositions in real estate. The Frigel staging services ah, so the company's propriety imperatives score technology allows us to convert any room photo two-day room photo into three d space, which we didn't can decorate with contents at were creating for our home furnishing retail partners. So our unique position across both sectors, enables us a enables in a very enough growth opportunity in shop. Abol fertile stagings. So it allows retailers to engage with motivated, consumer spiritually in the customer journey and to feature their own products and catalogs in, in virtual staging so real estate really loves our proposition, because we make there are active listings, look, much better. And since since ninety five percent of the people start their home search online. It makes so much sense to virtually stage their, their properties in really showed the full potential of their actively things in different designs house. So there's as a nutshell of what we're doing. But there's been a lot of progress. So I'm looking forward to discussing the main topics since we last spoke in two thousand sixteen tastic. I'm excited to find out more about lace. I'm like you said the last time we spoke room after slowest exclusive three d virtual home, decorating up that proved to be a big hit with consumers real estate agents and retailers, ROY off the bat, but I am conscious that this is an audio podcast and everything that you do. He's quite visual. So can you possibly set the scene, and help them visualize? Exactly, what room is, and how the company and services you provide as evolved over these last few years. And and you know how they can get the most out. Yeah. You're absolutely right. So it's, it's a very visual proposition, so we always love to share visuals. So for that I would like to refer to our Instagram page, Instagram is just a perfect social platform for our for our services, as so on. Roomie on Instagram. You'll find news officials on before and after of Rupe staging that we have we have created for relisted. So, so how does it work? So real estate comes through us to virtually states their property. So what does that mean they share photos of their active listings, which we convert, and utilizing our core technology into three space? We are working with the largest online home-furnishing B Taylor's creating sweetie assets. So today, we have over one hundred and seventy five thousand three d models in the room library, which we can use for fertile staging so usually real estate select two or three different design, styles, and again, with Arthur -nology and professional interior designers, we create beautiful room these lines, which we done render in our facilities in Asia. So since last time, we spoke Neil, we opened three facilities in Asia where we're creating the three d assets for home furnishing retailers and where we're creating these beautiful high resolution renderings for real estate. So once we have created this beautiful, high resolution virtual station for real estate day posted in Darah in their on their website really show of the full potential of their active listings. I have been following your progress from afar, and it just seemed that you've come a long way by embracing the so many emerging technologies got three day. But was it got VR and aaagh technology to create these three D renderings of home spaces, ultimately, I believe, so homebuyers, renters can envision space as their future home, and helping a real estate professional best showcase their listings. But he told me a little bit more about that as well. Yeah, of course. And so I think we've always been on the first week for for to reality, and reality. So it started with the Rumi app, allowing home shoppers to personalize their design on the platform that is still feasible, I so once we have created that beautiful designed we provide a deep link to the Rumi app where they can open to designed we created for that particular property, and they can personalize Studer own likings again. Never jingle room technology and with very easy to use the sign features and also utilizing d. The product library of the many three assets since real products that we have loaded in our in our library. We have grown our against since twenty sixteen a lot of progress because Google came to market, I with their Tango technology later with their air core technology apple came to market with a or kit. So we have leveraged their technology to launch off manage reality apps really allowing home shoppers and real estate agents to show the beautiful stagings during viewings, and it was always one of the major complaints about virtual Seiji because if you visit the property physically, Dan, you also would like to experience a beautiful design during your viewing. So today real estate agents and home shoppers, stitches pool their iphone Android phone look up that particular designed at recreated for the property, and they can view it in in or mandatory. -ality. What's really cool is that all the experiences we have in homes with shop ability features. So people will be able to click on products and really make the purchase on the retailers pep site just fairly of come along way because almost feels that you within like you said, in that first wave because right here and now VR and AR is transforming almost every industry and real estate is no no exception. But I'm hearing stories of apple and Google Creighton. Aaagh headsets, due to arrive in the next couple of years, do you think, essentially, these technologies are increasingly becoming more, and more mainstream and integrated into our daily lives? And if they are I mean, that's great news for you as well. Isn't it? Absolutely. I'm a big believer. That's that, that will come to us as recurrently wiccan with magic leap. It's been in the news, but magically granted roomy a development projects. Meaning of magic leap is funding the project allowing us to make the technology available on their, their devices as the magic leap mixed reality devices, will be an Hans with Rumi technology, so soon and I'm expecting early Q three one. We'll be able to put up the magic leap device. Put it on your hats and really experiencing beautiful virtual stagings in mixed reality while fewing or visiting the property in, in real and magically, of course, had a lot of hype around a lot of attention a few years ago. I mean, if you had chance to see any of inaction and is good as, as we've been led to believe. Oh, absolutely. I'm working with my development team every day. So. After the top of the year, the progress. I just run through through another sprint demo and it looks and testing. So, yeah. Coming soon. I would say, but it, it, it really looks fantastic. It's, it's very realistic. We have we will embed our own roomy render engine at its retailer to interior design and I can promise the audience that it will look fantastic. Very photo. Realistic live, how you using technology to help homeboys and renters but virtually and vision, a house or apartment as their future dream home. He's fantastic, you doing, but you tell me a little bit more about how your technology platform is impacting the real estate agent and property manager to year real estate an obviously were a lot further in time now. So Rita state. Well, first of all, I think it's with all mentioning Neil debts. We have penetrated over two goals for two goals in, in residential industry. So where we started the needs additional broker agents segment, and with companies like solar BC international realty. We've now also penetrated into let's see the disruptive Cindy industry like red fin as well as new builders like toll brothers and in the multifamily industry has Saudi apartment owners with examples like like you DR, so many verticals have adopted the room technology for fertile staging. And I think what's also important mentioning the it's not only to D room photos today. We're we have started to I, she states megaport scans. And we can also work off cat files 'social specially in the individual of new buildings when the properties still need to be built. We're already virtuous aging, the cat falls that have been created by designers, the architects. So a lot of. Yeah. New technologies that we have introduced in Indian the St.. And I'm super happy that we have been a traitor all verticals in residential industry residential real estate. If we have to sue out just for a moment, can you maybe help visualize and a little bit more about the broader role of technology in the real estate industry, and why you think it's going to be heading in the next few years because presuming Li if more and more real estate companies are going to be adopting, these kind of technology and working with guys like you at roomy that's going to set a new standard of expectation, isn't it? Yeah, that's a great question you'll because I think real estate has traditionally traditionally not been the early adopters of new technologies, but that's really changing today, I think ju to the success of startups, but also had to disrupt us in the industry. Like I mentioned that Finn and there's compares. Where really embracing technology in order to make a difference in the industry. I think what's important for real estate is there. Let's say from my vision, everything will will will will will go towards virtualization, so old properties will be fertilized and made available for fritzy reality in ordinary -ality. So with today's technologies it's, it's fairly simple to create a threes, Ken of your of your real estate. And once you have that three discount, you can put it in the hands off your future, renter, or your future buyer and really make it available for personalization. But it is through interior design or whether it's through auto technology in order to, to make it really personal for for the one who's going to truly live in that space not before talking to you today. I took a look across your social platforms and quickly. It's a hundred and thirty three thousand followers on Instagram alone, which is pretty significant by a long stretch. So. Is always any secret to how what you've achieved some success on that platform, I presumably is because everything you're doing is so visual, but I had did you go about a cheating successful, a huge following lineup. Yeah, your assumption is right as a roomy is a very visual proposition. And, and it's fantastic is showing all these beautiful visuals on, on, on Instagram. I think the secret is, is really focused. So we're for return focused on future home buyers as well as relisted agents and brokers. So really penetrating the differ tickles in state and being aware who's in the market for a new home. I think that's, that's our secret receiver happy, obviously, with our full our base as we're. Enormously happy with the interior, designers that are following us on Instagram. So a lot of positive feedback on the beautiful designs that have been created by our proficiently interior designers, how's your engagement strategy as I fold to meet meet those volving, consumer preferences and attract uses digital world, does that change much over the last few years. Well deficient has not changed. I think we're sitting on a YouTube upper -tunities with our Chaba virtual stagings, the technology, however, however, has has evolved, so through augmented reality today, one is able to click on products. Well, if you beautiful stagings in or manage reality. And another new innovation that we introduced the democratise what we call roomy ready. And so we learned that people really appreciate the high resolution renderings. They're very photo realistic. It's is hard to, to, to see the difference from from a real photo. So we announced that with what we call product labels. So we are touching product labels that can be tapped on the internet, and people can find out where it can make the purchase for that particular product. So for anyone listening, who's who is in the real estate industry or someone who's just moving and ready for a furniture. Refresh clear taught them through how to get up and running, and what to expect with room. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's easy has show. You can download to you room. Yep. On your on your iphone? You can also dine load or men reality apps debt, we have created for real estate. So that's not our evolution of the company. So I would really recommend people to download for instance, the curate app, it's Saudis international realty of men reality app that is powered by Rumi. So that's a great example of a augmented reality app that we created for, for real estate ember brokers, and agents are leveraging technology to show of these beautiful stagings during viewings. These apps are also available on Android. Again another evolution. So it's not IOS only it's, it's also available on Android tease. You've already mentioned, the exciting future with magic leap. Is there anything else that you can share with me today about what's next for rooming medically is, is a big thing for us. I think it's also important Neil to mention is again, the, the facilities that we've set up in, in Asia. So our home furnishing retail partners. And, you know, that's a that we're working with SO weird with a with a dominance service provider for two of the largest three on finishing retailers online. How finishing details? So we're recurrently ramping the capacity big time today. We have approximately four hundred people working in Asia, creating sweetie assets for home furnishing retail partners. Recurrently investing a lot in research, applying artificial intelligence and machine learning in order to drive efficiencies. These home furnishing retailers are all in that means that they will fertilize one hundred percent of their product catalog. And then we're talking millions of products. So in my vision, we will fertilize all products in home, furnishing, retail and roomie is perfectly positioned to become the dominant player for for the industry. So that's a big thing for us. What is what is really nice mentioning is the working with a few home furnishing retailers to sponsor virtual stagings, which will further lower Detroit sold for real estate to invest in virtual staging, and meaning that the retailer will pick up the check for ritual station. Becau-. As they see the benefits of featuring their products in virtual staging then lost, at least and that's a no brainer for us. There will be your graphical expansion. You noted he has been pretty much focused on the United States, so far, but we will we have already introduced the, the platform in the UK, and we will continue to introduce the platform in, in Europe. Tastic a suspect is going to be a lot of people downloading the app while they're listening to till today. But I knew on that wants to find out more information about you guys contact member of your team. If they've got any questions was the best way of doing that. Oh, that's really going to our website. So is roomy dot com. It's our triple O M, Y dot com task is great to say, how much success you enjoying. It's not overnight success either. You know, these four five years of hard work on which I can appreciate. But also, I mean, I talked to different tech leader every single day of the week and I'll go down to speak to my. Wife, who's got no interest in the world of tech. But soon as I mentioned, the word home account, an Instagram, I think she'll be going to be interested who saw suspects. You'll be downloading but bulldozing just a big. Thank you for joining me today. Thank you, likewise, thinking, you know, when I first spoke with Pyotr years ago, I was not even really a thing. So he was clearly ahead of his time and I generally enjoyed a catch with him today. Not only to see how he's progressing, but also to show the importance of four years, hard work, and dedication, and what that helped create in the world of tech startups, because I think we all look at the next big thing, and sometimes think why did I not think of that. But for the most part, even if you did think of that five years ago, would you have spent five years of blood, sweat, and tears, bringing your concept to life, but that is what peer too? And so many guests that commodities daily tech podcast do. And that's what separates them from for the rest of us on this crazy world now this is. As an audio podcast, and obviously room is a visual platform. So please, I urge you to check roomy out download it have a play. See if it can bring your home to live and let me know what you think I want to hear. Good bad indifferent, whatever as I genuinely want to hear your thoughts. So please Email me you should notice by now tech blogger to outlook dot com. Tweet me at Neil, c Hughes or pop Bama website, tech, blog, GRA dot co dot U K, so a big thank you for listening as always. I'll return again tomorrow with a Miller great gas. But until next time don't be a stranger. Thanks for listening to the tech writer podcast until next time. Remember technology is best when it brings people together.

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What The Coronavirus Pandemic Reveals About The Endless Urge To Stay Busy

On Point with Tom Ashbrook | Podcasts

47:17 min | 3 months ago

What The Coronavirus Pandemic Reveals About The Endless Urge To Stay Busy

"From NPR and WB. You are Boston. I magnin Chakrabarti and this is on point. Nobody chose this. No one wants to be in a walk down because of an historic deadly pandemic and yet in this moment when the din of daily. Life has been quieted. Maybe that's making room for something else to it's been very lonely in very quiet the white noise of the city. Finally it's Allow me to hear a lot of my thoughts and And I didn't realize how much stuff goes to my alarm any thoughts that I have. I started a garden. Chang to be present in the moment and in the place and I'm feeling very lucky to be in a place where I have lots of trees and birds and create your friend. It's been difficult because I live in an area where have not a single neighbor. So I've come to learn how to walk in my yard. Get the plants notice flowers blooming spending more time in that way. That's Marie in the French. West indies Benny in Weitzberg Kentucky and one in Brooklyn New York. They're sharing their stories with corona diaries. An open source audio projects supported by the Nieman Foundation for journalism at Harvard and the MIT Center for advanced virtuality. Now gone and Benny and Marie are all talking about the sudden loss of all the business that once dominated their lives. Your lives my life for sure. It's upsetting and unsettling to lose the activities that once filled our days and marked our accomplishments but again is that also maybe allowing something else to flourish. So this hour on point. Let's talk about business. And the virtues of experiencing more by doing less and to help us think through this is Omid Safi. He's a professor of Islamic studies at Duke University and the founder of illuminated courses where he's currently teaching a class on Rumi. You can find a link to some of his columns about business for the on being project. We have linked to those at on point. Radio DOT ORG omid. Welcome to on point thank you. It's really lovely to be with you. How has your life been changed or transformed by this moment? You know I think as you said this is something that Very few of US could have seen coming and we didn't go into it with a map or with a plan And I think in the first few days like a lot of other people I found myself experiencing a very deep sense of loss and focusing on all the things that we're not getting to do and I'm very fortunate enough to be married to someone a lot wiser than myself and And so she very wisely turned it around for me and said well you know Everyone is talking about everything that is prohibited or recommended against. What is it that we are getting to do? What is it that we do want to use this time? For and My wife is a gardener and so she very much speaks in these natural cycles and The language that she gave me was a life that is not so much stripped down but it is distilled And that's kind of what the last few weeks have felt like. It really feels like distilling life to the essence and we are much more Trying at least to be present with one another Focused on checking gin with loved ones on very simple home-cooked meals When we are able to to take a walk outside and And there's actually you know something quite beautiful into midst of the storm that is around us and all of the uncertainty and all of the suffering that we see. I think there's some sense that the pace of life that we were living before was not so humane So we should just acknowledge right here at the at the top of of this discussion that there are many people right. Now who don't have a choice right Professor because they have to continue. They are the essential workers of this nation. That are keeping us. They're holding us together so they don't have a choice they they are as busy if not more than they ever were before and We should also note that there are many people who have a lot of time on their hands that they simply do not want because they are out of work so I just Wanna I just WanNa say that. There's there's range and I wanted to acknowledge that not to not to diminish what you're saying but it's part of this the whole picture exactly and if he gets a good reminder that you know sometimes we use this language that were all in this together. Well we may be all in it together but we're not all in it in the same way. Yeah and it has very different consequences for us and I think you know we're seeing Some of the much deserve attention that the healthcare providers that the people who stalk grocery stores that the the postal workers that essential services are providing and one of the things that I really appreciate and every time I see people going out and clapping for healthcare workers as they're getting off their shift is a reminder that would really choosing to value is service. It's people who extending themselves in love and service and care towards others. Yeah so this is a form of distillation though right because when we when we when we talk about I mean. The process of distilling is a purification process. Right so it seems as if I think it's it is fair to say that all of us in whatever way have been forced by this moment to sort of really purify what it is that we value and then question or compare this our answers in this moment to what we were filling our lives with before. Is that what you're saying? That's exactly that's right and I think what I'm realizing. The more I listened carefully to people is there are many people who are saying yes we would all like to be able to get back to work particularly those who are out of work or those work has been diminished or have been furloughed but I think what we don't want to do is to get back to quote unquote normal because what we're realizing. Is that what passed as normal before was actually not serving all of us and what passed as normal before wasn't serving the whole of what it means to be human that we were caught up in this pace of life where remeasured are worth and our value by what we were producing. And I think we're trying to find a different way of living a different way of being. That would say no. Actually our lives have worth and dignity and depending on the language people WANNA use. It's because of the extent that we're able to love and care for one another. It's because of your soul is because you are a luminous being a child of God people have different languages for it but I think we want to get away from that hyper capitalist sense that my worth as a human being is measured through the dollar amount that I can generate for a corporation at this same time that yes of course we want to be able to get back to work and help people economically. Recover so then. Let's let's let's get down to essentials. These words distillation pure essential. They're gonNA come multiple times. I have this conversation. But but so. How does that how you're defining business or the problem of business is it? How are you defining it? You know it was actually very simple observation. Some years back That I kept asking my friends in a very casual sense. how are you And the response. I noticed that I got was not good or bad or angry or sad. It was just just nodding of the head. Oh you know. I'm so busy so busy so busy so busy so busy and no one looked happy when they said that they were so busy And it got me to sort of realize like. How did we end up like this? We don't we don't want to be like this we're supposed to be human beings not human doings And I realized that if I tap into the wisdom of my own tradition and I speak here as Muslim in many Muslim languages. When you ask someone how they are the question you literally ask them is how is your heart doing and I realized that when I ask people that question how is your heart or has your heart. In this moment people would pause and it would almost catch them and be like. Oh my heart yes I have a heart. Let me look into my heart and let me see how hard is doing. And it gave us an opportunity to move from this conversation of business and of action and activity to realizing that were supposed to live a balanced life of action on one side and repose on the other so so many questions to ask you professor Safi but In the short time before to take a quick break you're a scholar of Rumi defined inspiration in in room poetry. Remy's verse to help us understand this. I do I do. He speaks to me as he speaks to. So many of us and You know when I find myself under quarantine My Wife said well. Why don't we take this time to go deep into his teachings and this led me to Put this course together on illuminated courses. There's a poem that if you have time to read it for you We have about a minute to be perfectly frank. Because I don't want to rush you. Can IT FIT in a minute or should we do it when we come back from break? Stood when we come back that gives us a lot of Cure Antidote for this disease of business okay. I'm I'm glad that you said that because it would be a true. Shame for me to rush you in an hour where we're supposed to be considering the virtues of repose so amid Safi Professor Plum Studies at Duke University stand by for just a moment. We ARE TALKING ABOUT QUESTIONING. Business in the midst of this global pandemic whether are forced collective slowdown is actually making room for something else. Does this resonate with you? We'll be back. This is on point. WanNa add more positively to your podcast feed checkout kind world stories of extraordinary kindness and compassion. That's kind world. Subscribe now on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen. This is on point. I'm magnetic Roberti. We're talking this hour about whether our collective forced slowdown might be making room for something more. Something new not that any of us. Want to have to live under lockdown in a pandemic but this is also a moment to ask some questions about all the things that were keeping our lives extremely busy before we entered this historic moment and in order to help think those think through those questions. I'm joined today by omid. Safi he is a professor of Islamic studies at Duke University and founder of illuminated courses where he's currently teaching a class on Rumi and professor software. You were about to share with us some of roomies verse that that you find particularly inspiring at this moment. Yeah thank you so much So you know. We were speaking about distilling one's existence and the way that Rumi talks about. It is to go back to the roots of your being so it's a tree metaphor and to rejuvenate yourself by going back to the roots and so he has this one poem and that I've been discussing on these Illuminated courses and this one is called wherever you are so I'll just share this with you. He says wherever you are be right there fully present. Have your heart be wear. Your feet are wherever you are. Be The soul of that place and I think the reason that this spoke to me is I'm a teacher and I realized how many of my students and my co workers Talk about multitasking as the default mode being. They're reading and they're under phones. That might be watching something that might have headphones on and many of us can imagine what this multitasking looks like. But we don't have even a good word for the opposite of that. What would it look like to be single? Luridly present in the task. That were doing I was mentioning to a friend. A lot of us can think of days where you get up and you're on your computer and then lunchtime rolls around and you're like what have I done today. Yes whatever actually accomplish today and then you look. And there's like ten emails and fifty tabs that are open. But there's no sense of anything having been brought to fruition and sometimes conversations are like this you know we're sort of chatting with someone instead of really being present and I think that's what room is talking about is whatever we are. Whatever it is they were doing. In that moment have that task be would receives all of our mind all of our soul all of our glance. Whatever person were with in that moment treat them as the most important person in the world and this is the language that domestic issues. Have your heart be where your feet are And in some traditions in Buddhism for example people talk about this as mindfulness. And I think I wish the English language could become a little bit more capricious and borrow some of these words from for example. The Islamic tradition and have a word called harmfulness I I want us to have heartful existence where we are fully present to one another and then when that moment goes on then we move onto the next task and we'd be heartfully present there and so on instead of always being scattered brain and scattered attention and scattered hearted well. I would just like to know that that is a beautiful and worthy goal and at the same time though we have. I'm not a Luddite by any stretch of the imagination but we have modern life. That's With very powerful forces that are quite aligned against that that goal right I mean we the phrases via tension economy. Everyone is vying for your attention. It is being shattered every second bydesign absolutely and you know when the human attention becomes a commodity and it's something that is part of the market place Then people as you say are competing for it. I think what I'd like to do is to have us. Cherish our attention to have US cherish our presence and to say this is something really precious and I don't want to simply be casting away on the wind and the analogy that I give my friends and my students and this works for them is I ask them like you know observed themselves next time that they noticed the red battery light under phones coming on when they think their phones are about to die. It's almost like they go into this cosmic in existential state of panic because you know for them if their phones die they die They're just like frantically looking around for a place to recharge even if they have to sit on the floor next to some smelly bathrooms somewhere. They will sit there so they can recharge and I ask them like. Have you attempted to be as attentive to your own heart? Do you know when your heart has the red battery light on. And when you noticed that you're running on fumes do you know what to return to to rejuvenate yourself? So this is that going back to the roots and for for some people it might. There might be some people that when you're with them they fill you they rejuvenate you for some people that might be a place for others it might be a practice whatever it is find it and do it and do it again and again and again until it becomes a habit well so professor soft. If you just hang on here for a moment I want to open the door to another voice in this conversation and joining us from Dublin. Ireland is Brian O'Conner. He's a professor of Philosophy at University College Dublin and at the University Center for Ethics in public life and author of idleness a Philosophical Essay. A book that challenges the case against idleness. So professor O'Connor welcome to you. Brian O'Conner can you hear us? We're going to try to get him back on the line here so professor Safi let me. Just turn to our callers. Let's go to madeline. Who's calling from Baltimore Maryland? Madeline you're on the air so I was calling into. I think is a really interesting conversation about four slowing down. And it's definitely something I'm experiencing a moment. I just graduated from Nursing School and prior to nursing school. I was a total wild child like I use to hitchhike around and it was a musician and when I started nursing school like my schedule became tight and I became really tight and wound up. And just really hyper focused. And now that I've graduated and I'm waiting for my job to start. The process of unwinding has caused me like a lot of anguish and the transition was really hard. I had to call a suicide hotline last week. because I feel like my Dundee has totally been changed and I'm trying to figure out what is going on with myself but I've been rediscovering of my artistic endeavors so that's been helping me and I feel a lot better now but it's been really hard. Yeah Madeline don't hang up and first of all thank you so much for sharing your story. I'm glad that it thinks seem a little better now. But I'd like you to talk for a second with Professor Safi Professor Safi. I think Madeleine is saying. Many people are probably feeling that she talked about that. Sense of identity being broke down with the with the lack of activity absolutely and I'm so thankful that you have You've called in and I also just want to applaud you for having the courage to give voice to devante ability. You know we so often hide away from that. And if we can't face the suffering in our own self. Hauer we ever to confront somebody else's suffering And I'm also specially moved that You know your career path has been to go into nursing. I think this is one of the things that we notice. Is that so often? It is the people who spend their life providing care for other folks that themselves are also in need of being looked after so. We're not alone. And this is the strange part is that it is an age of physical distancing. But we're not meant to be alone so I think whether it is teachings or whether it's people I hope that you are doing. And I hope that everybody else is able to look at their own. Life's journey and think about who's loved them. Who's befriended them and thinking of love in a very expensive way not just dramatically Who who's taking care of you? Who is loved you and your life and it might be a grandparent. Might be neighbor might be a teacher. It might be a lover It might be a best friend. Might be a puppy And and to sort of return to These relationships and I do know that a lot of us are checking in so much more frequently with people who have have had loved us and have loved on us during the course of our life. Madeline what do you think about that? I think that it's interesting that That the topic of others was brought up like other people because positive interactions with other people is so fulfilling and grounding but being such a strenuous program really stripped away the The circle that I had one in my life and school was just really isolating. And now that it's gone. I'm realizing how isolated I am. So it's hard to rebuild that like you know I just don't know how well Madeline thank you for your call and I wish you the best best of luck maybe some of these basic steps. That professor Safi was talking about which might might be where you start so madeline. Thank you again for sharing your story. let's try now. I think we have professor. Brian O'Connor on the line again. He's a professor of philosophy at university. College Dublin Professor O'connor you with us. Yes I am wonderful. Sorry about the technical difficulties. It's a new consistent fact of life for us here on live radio in these times for you and forever. Well so you've been you've been hearing much of what Professor Safi has saying. And I wanted to start by asking you Professor O'connor you wrote this book idleness. The Philosophical Essay is idle missed. The opposite of business. I think so although not in any simple way because it's not always very clear that when we speak about idleness we speak about it in the same way. One extreme is is that I'd like attaching out doing nothing almost vegetating but the other version and I think possibly this is the one that may appeal to the imagination at the moment is a life where you're not dedicated to productivity. Where you sort of do your own thing and making your own day your own way as far as you know practically possible. And what does that? Yeah no no continue. Go ahead professor. I think I think I think you'd question asked me to say but go to say anyway. It was at that kind of day is one where I think. I think really good echo many things at home. It already said where you have a very different sense of the importance of productivity where you're no longer really measuring yourself in terms of your approach but a further thing emphasize here is very distinctive feature of contemporary. It's been developing over centuries but it's come to a completely abnormal novel. In recent times kind of business that dedicated to sort of making a name for oneself establishing an identity whether it'd be a social media identity a presence of personality or or professional one where visibility where relentless visibility is required. I think that's probably the most stressful thing that many people put themselves through his building a visibility which is highly dependent on whether anyone wants to look at you whether any wants to regard you as worth looking at that. I think I think an escape from that strikes me as a pretty liberating possibility liberating. Yes but also it's a rejection of centuries of religious cultural and economic norms in in the Western world. Professor O'Connor I mean we have an entire economy. That's founded on on on a notion that idle hands are the devil's workshop. So productivity is is indeed how people were measured yes. That's that's very true. But I think we have to distinguish between the kind of productivity that we recognize as important to keep our cells together you know to keep body and soul together to maintain the kind of an orderly society that kind of productivity is is there to stay and obviously that's the condition of human beings as creatures embodied creatures on the Earth. But there's another kind of work practice which seems to go well beyond that and I'm certain that the change we've seen since the middle of the twentieth century which is where the excess our surplus desire to work to be seen to be work to be marred for work so the sheer fact of being a worker becomes admirable in an above. What it is. That work needs to do In the past nobody was condemned for not working provided they were productive when they need it to be but in more recent decades kind of. What would you say mythologies ation of the work ethic which has never been greater inspired with the fact that we're now it's religious in the West as we used to be? This kind of so-called probably work at Marseille described. Seems to have gone to to wholly new high. So it's it's kind of an escape from that. Then they need to be seen and admired as somebody who who who works well even even above and beyond what's required for basic production professor. Safi your thoughts on that I think. Can he's exactly right in the sense that there is something about the current Economy and even the ways that it has crept into some of our religious language which have become some capitalistic in terms of their orientation. Their become market is that said drives us to a life that is all work and no rejuvenation all work and no contemplation And I WANNA just to remember that It's also possible to have a different series of metrics whereby remeasure fulfilled life and could be as simple as asking ourselves perpetually How deep is our love? And whom do we serve? I've rarely met somebody who has who wants to have written on their tombstone He was quite efficient in answering emails. but I think the way that people at the end of their life look back under life as having been a sweet life and a beautiful life it's directly related to how well they loved not just romantically but in all the expensive ways. And how did they also spend their life in service towards others so I think I think we are talking about a very. You're right? This is very counter cultural in today's world. But I also think it gives us the promise of far greater happiness. Well Omid Safi and Brian. O'conner hang on here for just a minute because there a lot more to discuss on this when we come back we are talking about whether this moment of forced slow down for most of us is making room to ask them questions about what was keeping us so busy before. We'll be back. This is on point need to escape the news for a moment checkout endless thread a podcast from Wbz you are and read it from mysteries to histories two stories that will remind you of our shared humanity. Subscribe to endless thread on Apple podcasts. Or WHEREVER YOU LISTEN. This is on point. I magnin shocker. Bardy tomorrow on the program. We're going to be taking a look. At innovation admits the corona virus pandemic and how ingenuity leadership and resources are being marshaled. For THE COMMON. Good from making more face masks to developing. Never before seen vaccine. So are you seeing innovation at work all around you? And how are you or your company innovating? Leave us a voicemail at six one seven three five three zero six eight three. We WanNa know what questions or thoughts you have about America's aspirations and capabilities for innovation in this pandemic again that six one seven three five three zero six eight three. That's for tomorrow's show and I just want to acknowledge that. It seems rather ironic that. I'm promoting that for tomorrow show because it's very activity and worked based our and today we're talking about pressing back pushing back against the cult of business in America and whether or not this four slowdown that we're all experiencing is actually allowing us to do that and joining us today for that. Conversation Omid Safi and Brian O'Conner and Professor Safi and O'Connor in effect. I don't actually see it as an irony that tomorrow we're going to be talking about innovation while today we're talking about harmfulness as as you were saying. Professor Safi because if both of you would allow me one moment to just bring my own personal experience into this delay. Bear my bare my soul here to the two of you. I I want to be honest and say that I struggled a little bit in my in my preparation for this conversation. Because I've marked my whole life by A sense of pride or desire to to do the work that I was in. I have been an M. engaged in that I've you know I've I've felt a sense and continue to feel a sense of. I don't know if accomplishment is the right word but meaning in working with great teams to put stories on the radio or helping my child learn how to read or to be active in my community. It seemed to be a very busy life on paper but it provided meaning. And if I if I may I would actually even quote Emily Dickinson. I was looking at a poem from from Dickinson where she wrote. I tie my hat. I crease my shawl. Life's little duties do precisely as the very least were infinite to me so I I guess I'm saying I still find meaning in a lot of my actions in a lot of my work in a lot of my business and I'm not quite sure there's anything wrong with that. So Professor Safi. What do you think you know? I'm I'm delighted that actually you find the work that you do meaningful and I would rejoice if everybody finds the work that they do to one to be one that gives their life. A sense of meaning I am never against the sense of living a meaningful life. I hope that work has dignity in whatever sense it is that we do. I think the distinction I'm trying to make is that. I'm not so persuaded that busy ness and meaningfulness are one and the same it's possible to be busy all the time but not necessarily being engaged in activities that are particularly meaningful and a lot of the work that is the most meaningful you know when you sit down with a loved one and you have your hand on their arm. And you're listening very attentively You may not look very busy in that moment. Even though it's the most meaningful thing that you could be doing so I would say the fact that your life is meaningful is wonderful and I think a lot of us myself included who come from immigrant backgrounds We've been raised to measure part of our contribution Through the extent to which we can make a meaningful difference to the society that we now call home. I just WanNa make sure that that doesn't come at the expense of reflection and the examined life socrates with call it that ultimately makes it worth living. We'll professor O'connor we put it this way. That sometimes I consider myself the most Protestant non Protestant in my belief in the Protestant work ethic. When you think about that I mean. It's it's true that some professions have a certain space of freedom which allows individuals to sort of take possession. Own Time Anyway. There's other walks of life. Don't so I'm not sure how much we can infer from the fortunate cases like yourself worthy babs myself and two. I worry I worry about that. That many of the idealization work on built on models are really not available to many people given the structure of industry and the interconnected ways in charge. Konami new to work. Those kinds of professions are are are sadly for the few Many others have kind of a a a much more controlled Park place and I think that makes that makes makes a great difference than we have to say that under the current crisis those are people who probably won't find much to be impressed by in our conversation. These are people. Who are you worried about? What's going to happen next? And I'm probably don't feel that is new space if they're lucky enough to be to be able to sustain themselves as one that can that can last forever. So many many of us are in the luxurious position of thinking. What can we learn from this and bring forward And if we have certain kinds of professions there's possibly a space for that kind of revision as we go forward. Lucky US Is All I can say. It will be wonderful if I can echo of your other guests that that's others had such such positions but we're not really structured to too often tool which is which is one of the nightmares far far world. And I absolutely agree with you on the fact that having the luxury to contemplate busy ness versus idleness is is a luxury In a privilege afforded to not enough people I mean we we start at. I'm not sure if you heard this professor o'connor but at the beginning of the conversation we did Professor Safi and I did did make that point and it's I'm glad you bring it bring it up again but so so let me ask you. Then though Professor O'connor does does this moment can this movement even for the people who do feel deeply concerned about their wellbeing about their future because the fourth slowdown is actually quite damaging to them in their families? Is it possible for? Where do they begin to to to find some comfort some solace in this? I'm not sure there's much I'm sure their main hope is that we we find some solution to the current crisis and we get we get the show back on on the road The the question is whether those who are fortunate enough not to have such great where he's coming. Perhaps I guess try to frame some of the experiences that we that that many have have gone through and also something that might be. Potentially you know Constructive in the future. I found that testimony that you broke out at the beginning of the show. Extremely moving I I listened to on with particular interest to the speaker from Brooklyn. It was a certain kind of anxiety in his voice. He was interested in what was going on around him. But but there was an exciting there about. Whether it's supposed to somewhere he could really go as you know as time moved moved on. I I. I'm worried that we might make might lead to very general and radical conclusions based on an extremely unnatural sort of crisis. Something that happened very suddenly By public policy decisions and that could be reversed and solve fairly quickly it. It's it's how much in a historical I walk up really is just right. And that's a that's a really really good point so professor. Safi let me ask you because I do wonder about this. If we are frank with each other many many people and I will include myself in. This yearn to go back to. This moment that we're in is not what we want. We yearn for the normalcy that we had before. Even if it was marked by this plague of dizziness forgive. I did not those terrible use of words but you know what I mean that that to professor O'Connor's point this is. This is an an abnormal moment that that people might welcome the return to the life. We had before where business was part of the mix. What do you think about that You got a excuse me because I'm a religion professor and I tend to think of life and reality religious terms And to begin with. I think you're always measure the sanity of situation. The compassion of a situation by the way that people on the margins are faring. And so I do ask myself that question. What does this mean about going back to? Something called normal when we don't have health care universal health care and now we're seeing the ways in which the health and the well-being and indeed the very life of all of us is interwoven. An interconnected so what I always tell people And this is slightly ironic. Language is That what I really hope we are experiencing And this is a twinkle in my eye is an apocalypse but what I mean by that is not apocalypse in the sense of the end of the word world but rather the original meaning of the word apocalypse which is an unveiling. I hope that we're having details of illusion removed from us that the old way that which we thought of as normal was actually the best way. I do think there is a better way possible. I do think there's enough food there's enough healthcare and ultimately enough love and dignity for all of us but we're not gonna do that going back to the old structures as tempting as it is. My hope is that something about the unsettling aspect of this moment allows us to connect the inner to the outer to allow each of us to go deep inside and find out what makes us human and then to bring that outward and to figure out how do we take care of all of us Because I don't know that we have another option well so professor. O'connor just briefly. Do you think that this sort of moment of incense innocence force decompression that we're experiencing could again? What by the reduction of the Din of the business that was dominating so many people's lives create the space for that kind of change. Professor Safi is talking about. Obviously I would welcome that but I have my doubts on the reason for that is that we haven't gotten to the place we've been in by accident. It has been pretty much a case of a process of social social evolution of education of training of socialization. But that is very deeply ingrained in us. Very deeply ingrained. I mean when you think about one of the complaints that many people have under. The current lockdown is boredom and boredom is always a symptom of not knowing how to spend your time in a way that satisfied and this is because people haven't really had the experience of having to spend so much time using their own initiative. We've been well trained to undertake tasks to move to each task. That's put in front of and successful people are those who who who identified the tasks and get them done quickly and impressively but we're very very much socialized as creatures of a certain time type. I guess I wonder whether when all of this is over it won't be a little bit like those Thomas's people make on vacation thing. Our I never wanted to go back to where I'm I'm going to read novels every day. From now on and it and it just drifts away over time this is. I. I'm not saying this. Because that's the human beings naturally are I don't know what human beings naturally are. I suspect that we've been on naturally socialized to be busy though And I think that's going to be a generational process if we're ever going to reverse that well Bryan O'Connor professor of Philosophy at University College Dublin and at the University Center for Ethics in public life and author of Idleness Philosophical Essay. Professor O'connor thank you so much for joining us today. Margaret Pleasure and professor soft. We've got about three minutes left to you. I was wondering if you could fit in another roomy poem for a parting. Thought absolutely you can never have enough Roomy poems in your life so This is one of my very favorite ones. And it's one that I think really addresses this question of suffering which so many people find themselves in And it's called. The wound is where the light enters you. The wound is where the light enters you and it sounds a little bit like that. Wonderful Leonard. Cohen Song That anthem that has the line. There's a crack and everything that's where that's how the light gets in And it's not surprising since letting was such a huge fan of of Rumi called him the greatest religious poet. So here's the says trustee wound to a skilled healer. You cannot see the ugliness of your own wounds flies hover over them your thoughts. Your wound is your hearts state. Unelucidated the healer. This sage puts a bandage on your wound. The pain is gone. You think you healed all by yourself but know this. The healing was from the light. The wound is where the light interview. The wound is where that light intersts. You I think the reason that that speaks to me so much is I know that. So many of us feel like wounded beings and so many of us are actually wounded and there is suffering. I hope that through the suffering of this moment through the reflection and our response and our love and care for one another that there is light that also enters us that we're able to find out ways of living a more meaningful more sustainable kinder and gentler life that supports all of us will meet. Safi professor of Islamic studies at Duke University and founder of illuminated courses where he's currently teaching a class on Rumi Professor Safi. Thank you so much for joining us today. I and by the way I should know. Today's the first day of Ramadan. So an especial. Thanks for you for taking the time to be with us on on this first day of Ramadan professor. Thank you so much well on point is produced by Anna Bowman Melissa Egan Eileen Amata Liam knocks donal sonus West. Martin Hillary mcquilken James. Ross Dorje. Shamar Tim Skoog Grace. Tatler Adam Waller and Sydney Wertheim are co Captains Graham Griffith and JEB sharp. I magnin shocker. Bharti this is on point

Professor Safi Professor Safi professor Professor O'connor professor of Philosophy US Rumi Duke University Safi Professor Plum Studies founder Madeline Professor Safi Rumi Professor Safi NPR Boston Apple Brian O'Conner Nieman Foundation corona Chang Brooklyn
Rumi Neely On Being A Pioneer As One Of The First Influencers & Launching One Of The First Owned & Operated Influencer Brands

The Skinny Confidential Him And Her Podcast

1:00:05 hr | 11 months ago

Rumi Neely On Being A Pioneer As One Of The First Influencers & Launching One Of The First Owned & Operated Influencer Brands

"The following podcast is a deer media production. This episode is brought to you by skill share skill shares and online learning space offering more than twenty thousand courses. I'm currently using the platform to learn a bunch of different skills that we have talked about. Many Times on this show is the tool for brands and individuals acquire new skills or take Naba skills to an expert level think it is the net flicks for learning skills online so join the millions of students already learning on skills here today with a special offer for our listeners get two months of skill share for free. That's right skill shares offering the skinny confidential him in her listeners two months of unlimited access to over twenty five thousand classes for free to sign up skill share dot com slash T. S. C. see again go to Skilljam DOT COM slash T. S. C. to start your two months now that skill shared dot com slash. Tse She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire fantastic and he's a serial entrepreneur a very smart cookie and now Lauren efforts in Michael Box Dick bringing bringing you along for the ride major illness. Welcome to the skinny confidential and her going in my head. Constantly outfit needs to be like foot on priority Max what could potentially be like a good backdrop like constantly in my mind so I feel like I just try to take every moment and like how is this moment use best mark hi hello happy Tuesday. Hey guys that clip was from our guest of the show today Rumi neely one of the top influencers on this episode were discussing business fashion photography design. We get into it. If you're new to the show what's up. I'm Lauren Everett's Bostick. Damn Bostick Babe and I'm the creator of the skinny confidential. Hello Michael Boss a serial entrepreneur the newer and brand builder most recently a new newly announced Father Lorne. You are hanging it out. You've been hiding for so long now. You're just you're pregnant. fucking contents are on the fucking table. My stomach's hanging out. I'm letting it loose listen Michael. I was like Kate winslet titanic for five months so it's time to take off the core set and let things just show. I don't get the references tight. Kate winslet titanic was like abused by her mother with a core set because she had to like get it tightens so much okay I get it. Now I get and so does that make me. Leroy GonNa sink in in die in the freezing cold water. If it's between you and I like who's he's living well. I'm pretty sure it's not going to be me yeah. I'm pretty sure now that you've got the baby. They're definitely it's not gonNa be me. I'll just sink to the bottom. You know what who it's going to be our producer Taylor Taylor there is also joining us on this show say is that I don't know if you noticed but there's a lot of debate. If could Leonardo bring on kate onto the floating door. was there enough room for both with them. Even if there was enough room born would take the whole thing and Michael Withdrawn. I'm so glad that you know that you know. My Grandma told me she said I said what's love to my grandma and she said love is when there's one slice of chocolate cake left on the table and your husband wants you to have it in you want your husband to have of it and I thought fuck. I would take the chocolate cake and eat it. Do you know what is though I don't. WanNa fucking cakes so it's so you can have it every time. I think that's why their relationship works. I would take the cake not a big guy was his smart sweets but or would like eat the whole thing and leave you with like a small mo like measly marsal Susan. Luckily I'm not attached to sweets food food. Any kind of any kind of that stuff ain't got the you have been. You have been eating. I've been craving oatmeal raisin cookies and he's been trying to eat my oatmeal raisin cookies. I ain't got pregnant. One fuck with raising guys and exciting. last week was exciting. Finally got to announce a baby which we've been holding holding back obviously for five months. Don't keep that secret anymore. The baby is hanging out but the secret was really hard for Michael you guys it was really hard for him to suck it in for five months now. You're really flaunting around around now. She's going up and down everyone she is she came into the office almost every single person that you walk by she had to do the whole like. Oh my God congratulations she's showing it off and she's she's looking great. You know what's fucked up is for guys and I didn't read. I didn't realize this but like you have to be careful when your wife's pregnant but when your girls pregnant because you think your your body tries to league match the estrogen level and so you have to like do do some things to keep that testosterone flow and I'm telling you said that I was reading about and I was not I'm like why are you so motionless. I thought at first it was just like because I'm happy which I am. I'm trying to think wait. A minute is my estrogen out of control right. It's not it's not an anchor baby yeah. That's what it is. You've got her pregnant. She's GonNa leave now now. She's GonNa Start Crying. All the time and Lawrence is GonNa be like Jesus Christ more crime than me. She's obsessively or now. She's smelling me all the time Fairmont. She's blaming it on the big issues like the baby the baby yeah I literally do you like a line of crack cocaine. I just sniffs him every morning. Michael is one of the toughest people that I know hands down like uncompetitive a AH across the board but now on your knees and suck is decker. Hey I'm tough too so I'm right up there with them so what I was going with this is now. I have this thing where in my mind he's like smelling roses. He's sitting there. He's like Oh. I got to take a take a quick break and look at these. Nice Dandy Lion type things he has been like a little bit Taylor saw Taylor. I saw one video of me being vulnerable on Youtube and now he's. He's thinking that I'm just crumbling yes so I actually want to talk about this. The reason being is because you learn. I didn't know this until just the other day. She actually filmed the reveal where Michael where she showed Michael that the I don't know that you showed him the baby the baby test no he had no idea I was your in. Your verbiage is off. He showed Michael revealed. I was pregnant like he didn't know. Does that. Make sense she on your brain. Isn't there yet right. I don't even know what it's called the thing trae down. You have to get the word that dome when he when he pulled the dome off you have to see the video because his face. I'm telling you have known for years. I have never in my entire life seen him make this face. It's one of the most just like pure a happy or kind of it's I don't I don't even know what to describe it genuine to snow but not genuine because it makes it seem as if he's not genuinely like expressive with his emotion it's almost as if Michael was injected with love with where for instance I was where I was gonna say this but also it's not even that Lawrence reaction where she he goes. I'm freaking out and you can legitimately here like tears. Get caught like almost caught up in her inner voice. It's so emotional that I almost teared up. Are you going to cry right now. I'm not gonNA cry now Albert. Thank you did get your number. I did track I did get goosebumps and I watched it multiple times and it's something that I think now think of when the kids full grown. He's always going to have that little moment to where you have the first reaction when you found out that she was pregnant with him. How do you know why I just realized that things that you don't know the agenda. You've been calling it a heat which is really suckers. Are you hoping that it's I have no appropriate so he can try to date her friend. ooh Gross No. I wouldn't put anything founded Taylor. That'd be weird. I might have to actually now that would never happen so but I think that everybody should watch it. The reason being is because it's a moment in time that I think is rarely captured. It's well. It's all that's set. Shooting Star that I think is that I because I didn't know she was filming me and I didn't know what was going on. If you look closely that do I'm like wearing these like weird ipads and she kept it was weird she said kept telling me take take those ipads off but I was had some under is I was drinking the night before so why why Blake let me let me leave him on because she was trying to get me to fill so then I started crying and the IPADS are going down my face new. She dropped the camera at that point but but that's why I think it's a moment where I didn't know I was being filmed and I didn't know it was coming. It's all I had was the pure reaction. You guys are getting a little more feminine. 'cause you guys keep discussing this at length which reduce your arm wrestling streetfight office temp or something exactly slam a glass of whisking streetfight. That's good tattooed right yeah. I do want you to try to I. I'm going to definitely you are yeah. What do you think you're going to get. I think she got a cucumber kids. Don't get don't get don't don't don't run your body like I have yes so unless you're Taylor go ahead. When you get with me wash the Youtube Video. It's live on Youtube and it's the last five months and again some people. We're asking me why we didn't tell anyone for five months and the answer is super simple. We just wanted to have a moment between ourselves. Didn't we do the whole go doing podcasts about that yeah but I've gotten asked that question still and I just WANNA drive. People people do that to me and I just revert him episode number two thirteen fourteen. Whatever was it says the episode called Ward Pregnant you can go to let's uh-huh yesterday's gone down the river. Let's head back. It's not because I'm GONNA ask you questions not because I have any interest in it at all but I'm curious. When is it acceptable for someone to touch the Belly Michael. When is it acceptable for Taylor touch my stomach. I don't know I don't want I have a phobia of like the those that particular thing babies and general but like heartbeats and stuff freaked me out right so I don't want to tailor you're not going to this isn't a cartoon or the heartbeats like popping out of the stomach. which is that you guys don't touch each other? That'd be good okay. I would like some no actually I was. GonNa say some will but that's weird now. Let's never mind ignore that. I don't want you going anywhere near my wife so really creepy to me since I've been pregnant yeah. I feel like it's the boot. It's one of those things in this instance. You can't really avoid it. It's it's like what is it. It's a very delicate dance okay. There's no delicate dance involved at all with my wife. There is no defense that gets cancelled no dance out so we don't even need to explore my friend not at all all right before we get acquainted with this guest. I want to tell you guys that there is a huge. I mean huge gifting campaign giveaway. Whatever you WANNA call it on my latest instagram basically I teamed up with with tons of killer. Bass influencers and we personally curated this fabulous gift. I hand picked every single item. There're their products that are up to three K. It's probably the biggest gifting campaign giveaway I've ever done. It's my favourite. YSL purse. You know the one that I warn France. That's like a beach bag. It has every kind of pink swag that you would want and a Mac book. I mean this giveaway like I want to win. The giveaway. All you've to enter is go to my instagram page. It's my latest post. It has all the information on how to enter. It takes sixty seconds. You'RE GONNA love all the influencers. You're gonNA love the gifts. It's very on brand and like I said I I personally curated this fabulous gift. So many Gutty is a Mac Book Elias l bag tons of pink stuff. They even have a smeg lemon lemon juicer. My friend anger got me one and I was like we need a smeg pink lemon juicer so you're going to die when you see it all right. Check out my instagram at the skinny any confidential enter take sixty seconds tag your friends before we get into this episode. I WANNA shout out Rumi neely. She is one of the most genuine coolest influencers out there sometimes in this space it can get weird. Sometimes it can be a little high school and I'm I'm not a big fan of partaking in that but Rumi neely is the real deal she it is an O. G. influence or K. think she launched a blog back in like two thousand eight or something crazy she's someone I've always looked up to in the space and she's he's taken her platform and transformed it into a business and a company massive respect when I moved up to. La She reached out and had a whole list of where to go what to do. What kind of Macho to get specifics. She's very very detail oriented which I love. I also have her L. A. Hotspot recommendation list so if you're interested in checking that out I will do a blog post on Rumi neely's hotspots with that. Let's welcome to the show. She is a boss a creator a designer Annan influence her meet Romy hold up Michael. You know what I'm craving right now. You're looking deep into my eyes. So is it me. It's not ill. It's actually one of your Greensmith Greensmith as you're pretty good at it. Goes I make a mean mean green smoothie. Keep you healthy. Keep you on point to keep your feet. Keep you energize and one of the things that I put put in that smoothie Athletic Koreans the ultimate daily. It's your new best friend so it's an all in one supplement was seventy-five proven vitamins minerals and whole food sourced ingredients which help support your body's nutritional needs across five critical areas of health so this was obsessively research to solve the founders digestive issues and digestion. Josh Chavez and got health is real and I feel like we need to really start opening the conversation about it. I'll be the first to say that I know don't have the perfect diet and I know that I don't always get my nutrients traits with Athletic Greens. I feel much better because I know that even though I'm not perfect my own with Athletic Greens I can start my day right. Pump it into a smoothie known getting some nutrition known getting some vitamins known gimson minerals. You need all the help you can get really. Michael and for those of you that are traveling frequently. This is the best are always on the road and had carrying some of these travel packets. It's in her bag that we just dump and some water stir up and boom healthy makes me feel good. You should know that this has no harmful chemicals artificial colors sweeteners no added sugars no. GMO Gluten free dairy free no pesticides you name it. We're super super specific about who we partner with and this is a product that I know you guys will like it's Vegan. It's Paleo. It's friendly throwing your smoothie. Manipulate your husband your significant other your girlfriend your boyfriend whatever to make you a smoothie every night fine sharing that you both get your. Greens in so if you're done letting your body down done letting yourself down. Don't let your health down and if it's time to focus on that health and feel your best getting into a daily routine with with Athletic Greens really will be the single best thing you can do for yourself this year so why not just try at jump over to Athletic Greens dot com slash skinny and claim our offer today twenty one eighty three travel packs valued at seventy nine dollars with your first purchase. That's Athletic Greens dot com slash skinny to start your day right good things will follow. I promise you will be jazzed housed up just like me energy off the walls and for our listeners in the UK and EU they can ship to you as well so athletic. Greens dot com slash skinny. Let's get back to the episode. This is the skinny confidential him and her. I am so excited because we have the most iconic blogger her ever learn. No really I was not the first I'm GonNa tell you that before I started I was inspired by like basically the whole Scandinavia which already away on it but no one in America was on it like that. I mean you have to say like you were the first bog I ever fallen. Okay well think of someone but for now all two two thousand eight so I started in two thousand ten years before that is a huge gap at that moment because when she started people were like what the hell is a blog. You're never gonNA do the your blogs and you were two years before. That's six hundred something that's been through so much. What is this. What are you doing like. Why didn't you photos like I didn't care okay okay back to two thousand eight so you're inspired by the Scandinavian bloggers but but I'm sure there's more not What else are you consuming the content of just blogs the way way back? I should just like all I ever really never got sick basically and that was from when I was like ten or something like I always won. The latest Harper was are in vogue like not like you know the like teen magazines or anything I like just one of the best and like memorized every issue and like that just was what I wanted to do and like it was just not really something. That was an option. I feel like at that point. You said you want to work on fashioned. It was like you literally need to be in some like really high elite like social network in order to even have a chance chance of being like in those magazines offices so I kind of just like went to college for normal stuff police. I kind of always kept that in the back of my like minded are really wanted to do and then just when I saw that yeah like there's so much like opening up the block space and like Scandinavia Navio like they would do these daily outfit posts and they are so cute and I was like okay like I can do that like an Sergio. Ask Your boyfriend. Take your photos. At this point right yeah my my acts. He was amazing taking photos and it was like very much a fun thing I do is like literally living in Pacific by the way like full. San Diego like really yeah. She's false. Fulsome hold on because I know you and Lauren how personal that you guys have been together before and you know the backwards for me. Can we go back. Michelsen comes next is a fellow somewhat Javanese person yes Japanese. How do you feel an act. I feel like your penis Japanese. What what does that mean e fermented soybeans soybeans. I don't know it depends in certain things feel Japanese but I don't know how to explain. Explain it in in other ways. I don't feel Japanese. Grandma was fall grimace full yeah so it's a rare thing to be a quarter feel like I WANNA meet. More of these people. They're like McGrath was full. Oh Mom's half but then I'm a bunch of stuff like I've I've got so many different. Things stuff is like whatever to me okay so so your boyfriend starts taking your photos literally alleys of Pacific beach. I I mean I can picture this very specifically. Grow up in San Diego. Okay grew up kind of the place was little in Tokyo and Hong Kong and then norcal San Francisco Bay area an so San Diego was basically like where I went to further from and my family and stuff I would say to when I first started reading your blog that it was inspired by all these different areas like even though you lived in San Diego you could tell that you had outside inspiration from in the United States. It was almost like being San Diego was like reverse inspirational for me. I felt so like not on the same wavelength everyone there because of like the like. Let me tell you are seen she was. I was San Diego. As much as I love. It grew up there. I don't know how they could be so close to. La and so far behind in Fashion Day are by this is very confusing social behavior like let's hear about Kristalina. I love his podcast. He's talking about San Diego is one of the worst place to reform because of the Brawley nece and like the very kind of like Bro. He kind of flipped law. I don't get it but at the same time a special place March. You don't know how the Hell I came from there what if actually became more. La like we'd be kind of horrified right. I'm going to get a lot of all the San Diego. They're gonNA come out and said that about the place to grow. You're going to be a whole Oh. Thanks Sorry San Diego. Sorry you guys have everyone's down there. Your restaurant my dad's restaurants down there and just opened one and one okay so your boyfriend starts me. Michael and I always go off on tangents. Your boyfriend starts taking photos of you. My girlfriend fashion lush who I think I told you about at dinner. Calls me and goes. There's this girl and you have to go look at her and she has the most amazing content and at that time your content was better. I mean I still think it is but it was like really like better. Exponentially than anyone else crazy you started getting invited to fashion week meek on that because I know that ruffled some feathers okay so the very first show I went to wasn't isn't even in New York it was in Paris and it was for the Ungaro show and it was just like such a full-on Chris Experience and was complete dream. Come true sure I couldn't even believe what's happening and but we're editors not at this point because this is like what to two thousand ten. I feel like that never really affected me. Directly never really cared. I mean I I feel like I'm very even like in my everyday life for like an I with what I do now like I'm very much like stay in my own land. Don't look at paper like don't care like focus in the zone and there's no other way from doing. What was the goal back then. It didn't feel like there was anything that was like a structure from you to base things on because it was very much like you know the wild west and was definitely exhilarating every time I got like some kind of crazy email about an opportunity. I was like okay I guess this is the levels at now in his kept on going bigger earned bigger and yes I signed with next in. La I had like a whole separate tangent of my life where I was working in Tokyo for. Maybe like take two years. I was going there really often doing like modeling jobs and just like building my profile over there and doing some probably the most like high high-profile work is like stuff. I've done in Tokyo like my face wrapped around trains and stuff like just crazy. We need to get ready to get my face on a trade. It was so cool to like would've get like to tap into like Japan again because I felt like I was kind of losing that side of me and like look the language came back to me full Japanese. I'm half hop my dad's Blake from Kentucky. What are your friends and family and boyfriend thinking when all this is happening since it was the wild wild west. I think that it was a bit like unnerving for asked because he was just like this. All feels like really exciting. The same time like this is going way outside of you know the world that we're currently and like that was absolutely correct but I just had the slight insatiable desire to just keep on like prodding and see what could happen next and my family was. I think like confused until my mom Mama's doing in Tokyo and her friends were like look. She's like in a magazine that I picked up the newsstand and then she's like okay. Maybe I won't be okay with now. I mean mothers are tough until until they see shot. I literally played two instruments until like they don't. They don't give in until you until you until you get on a train. You're not you're you're not going to. It's like worried. She was like okay well. You're going to do other stuff right. This is just like for now and this is going nowhere. We know that right and I was like now. She's like posing with the Coffee Cup by her cropped off off. She literally wears. Are you minus the cutest thing in the whole world. She's like this micro like pocket person and she's like where's everything I think so beautifully and it's very thing so. When did you start to have the idea for Your Business. Was this something that was like for me. I launched the skinny confidential knowing I I wanted to be a brand. Did you feel like that or was this something that you just sort of. It was kind of just like an in the moment like hey like that lower. Shrub looks cool like what a picture the picture by it like in the thing that I'm already wearing and it was very like organic random off the cuff organic yeah and back then there was no blueprint either. There was no. Hey there's a business that existed assistant. There was no blogging businesses that really existed outside of like some takes banner ad pages yeah so having nothing to base it on me and I was really worried about like making money. I was just like if offerings are coming and I was making money but like I wasn't like okay. Where's those going and like what do I build this to just taking things as they came and like definitely could have had more more like a structured plan about it and I think if you ask any girl like what's one of your dreams that you like. Would you know love to achieve someday. It's like having clothing brand of course like who who who's GonNa say no to that almost and so yeah it was in the back of my mind but it's not an uncommon thing but yeah there came a time where I was just like. I knew I was ready for it. You know clothing clothing line though is different than a lot of people just saying I WANNA launch clothing line where I have massive respect for you as you didn't just slap your label on something like every single piece piece you can tell is created from out of your head. It is a pain staking but like such a glorious process like I just gives me energy like literally like I am the fit model fittings every Monday and Thursday for my line and like sometimes I'll get to work and just be like terrain for whatever reason and then link. I'll see like the pile of clothes turn like I'm literally just like brought to life again like it's just every little detail every little like pathway that can be forged from like us working with this fabric or that vendor whatever and and like it's just amazing so Michael Argue Michael's Berry into fashion and you would the way her stuff fits. It's like you thought of the boot fat what you thought you thought of how to slim the arm. You've thought of how to show the clavicle like your piece. The everything is so well made and so you can tell it's very thought out more confused about it's not that I'm just so into. I like fashion closed but I appreciate good design right like when something is aesthetically when it's worked worked in designed well it could be anything it's it's almost like an art piece right if you if you design it when people take the time and that's why I think it's important and I also like I think it's a really creative expression the way people dress in the way that they you know formed. They're closing the way they match things. You wouldn't get us into fashioned with the shirt that he's wearing today. I saw blazer. It's I had color the blazers because it didn't fit my feet. I thought it was a darker ninety seven. Where'd you get that blaze away. That's not you're not getting over. That's called a photoshop always do when launched your line. Was it something that that got popular overnight. 'cause I see all these celebrities and influencers wearing your stuff. I mean obviously I was lucky to have like my existing platform from fashioned host just to be able to show the line to immediately and so it felt like a very exciting like here it is what I've been working on like. This is the seven core pieces. Is that like I think everyone needs and that's how it started. It wasn't really like I knew what was GONNA come. After those pieces it was more just like this is your essentials IOS and from that point. It's like grown so much and I think there was definitely a point early on where I was worried that like once I did the perfect slip dress like what comes after that but now almost the more you do the more styles like I bring into it the more ideas I have so it's almost you know what I want to talk to you about eating because you are somebody somebody that's started. Let's say like they called blogging than influencers term. They just fit the marketing term to basically describe what they do when they're allocating dollars to this this type of space right because I like what do we call this remarkable influence whereas everybody's an influence or dollars this way but for somebody that calls himself an influence or now in is making the transition from okay brands are paying me to showcase their products. Now I have an idea my head and I want to create my own line. Can you talk about what that transition looked like. I'm sure that if you start to focus on doing your own on you have to limit the other stuff because you have to. It's almost like gift to pick one or the other. I know there's links. You can do collaboration still but it's ideal like basically zero sponsorships night. I I love you to talk about that. Switchover was very natural and very quick and I'm not saying that I'm opposed to doing anything with any outside brand but there's nobody listening and literally like where ninety five percent of what I wear in. My closet is things that I've created. It was really firm me and I think that I always had such a specific vision of how I wanted things to fall on my body and like how short they should be like why can't that strap you like even even more barely there and like all these little tiny details on was it skirted leave the income though like the collaboration income. It's still scary because I feel like you know having your own business like you're you. I'm like much more like on a day-to-day basis poor than I was. You know maybe in two thousand fourteen or something but I feel like it's totally worth yeah that's exactly it feels exactly right and it feels woods the transition from having a job to being an entrepreneur right like a lot of people say okay well now that I've created this blog in this plot from an entrepreneur because these brands are paying like no you're working for somebody and they're paying you as a job. It's like a freelance thing you're doing now. Is your entrepreneurial. You have your own Business Rachel Rachel like when you're an influence. Are you have clients you know and like it's not really my vibe. I'm so specific and so like I want everything to be the thing that I decided. If it's like an aesthetic thing touching my body you know like was a natural transition and people are GonNa get fired up about that statement saying that basically being influencers not being an entrepreneur no. I I agree with our free last topic. That's happening right now. I just think I think being an entrepreneur. You're creating a business from scratcher. You're building something that does not exist in. You're doing get for your own organization and it's employing people employing things in creating something. There's nothing wrong with doing influence of business. We did all the time people sponsor this podcast all the time but for me. That's doing freelance work for just a graphic designer or developer. Whatever it's there's a there's a big distinction. I think people get in trouble because I'm an entrepreneur are you. Are you doing freelance work for other brands. I mean that's definitely really valid way to look at. What is your day to day now that you're in the business because I know sometimes it can be hard when you have to work on the business snus and in the business and you have a team till I have a team. I love my team so much. I feel so I mean it definitely took awhile to assemble the right group of people and like we have been you know over twenty people on our at twelve and that feels totally perfect. I feel like it's weird. Once you're past like fifteen people. I feel like there's a vibe change in like the likeliness for something to be negative is like amplified so much. I feel like it's because people start reporting into people and it's not something that happens anymore right. There's there's levels herbals and there's different this person's reporting to this person and that dynamic changes especially when it's a small team and everyone's kind of like on the same level but when you introduce more and that offense like wait wait a minute. Kathy was working next to me now. I have to report her and it like it starts to create dynamics it. It's not fun. I feel like especially for how Chila Vibe I want in my office like it's perfect whereas right now and so wait what was no. I was just saying like how is it running team day to day. Are you in the office nine to five live. Is there like a smile. I'm obsessed with people's like Danielle Steele Lake. If I was in the office nine to five that would like undo the whole point of everything that I've really tried to which I'm the anyway so it's very much like I can decide like the morning of like what my mood is what my brain feels the most tailored to do based on my mood or whatever it is like if I'm like really inspired to take photos do that if I'm really inspired to you know think of new development for the designs on all work on that but I feel like it's very much like such Gotcha privileged position to be m super aware of that but yeah that's kind of how my day by Monday and Thursdays basically like I'm definitely at the office and everything else is like make kind of filled in random. I'm really hoping one of my favorite partners has some courses on what to do as a new father because I have no clue. We'll hopefully our friends over at skill share dot com of course of knee if not I know they have a million other courses that are gonna help me feel good level up. Take my mind off the pressure of being a new dad. Hopefully hopefully at some skill tomorrow. Machar and you guys can level up as well guys. We've been talking about skill share for a long time. They have been a long term partner on this show skill share for those those of you that don't know is an online learning community with thousands of amazing classes covering dozens of creative and entrepreneurial skills all online top by people like you and me you wanna take e-class photography creative writing design productivity marketing. Hell you WANNA learn how to be a calendar. They got something for you. So whether you're returning to a longtime passion project challenging yourself trying trying to level up looking for a new hobby they have of course you and guys like I said it's taught by people like you and me very easily digestible if you're like me which I know you guys. Are You love Productivity Productivity to k they have courses on how to be productive. This is something that gets me all excited K. You guys have listened to the productivity episode good and I feel like if you WANNA continue to get tips and tricks and become a practitioner of productivity skill. Share is the place to go and you can also get all the little secrets secrets of design so if you WANNA design out your instagram story they have you covered. If you're waiting for the luck bus to come up and pick you up and take the promised land. It ain't happening to stand out is to level up and add new skills to your arsenal guys. There's no better way to start. No more cost effective way to start. Don't have to worry about tuition fees just boom broom skill share and you're ready to go so as Michael said there's no luck bus to join the millions of students already learning on skelter today with a special offer just for our listeners get two months of skill share chair for free. That's right guys skill shares offering all skinny confidential him in her listeners two months of unlimited access to thousands of classes for free all you have to the sign up as good as skullshaver dot com slash. TSE again go to skullshaver dot com slash TSE to start your two months now that skill share dot com slash tse. Let's get back to the episode. Batch your content issue because your instagram content is. I can tell us a creator. It's a lot of work. I like a bit botchy. Yeah you'll just be one day. I WANNA shoot everything yeah if I'm like really in the mood to take photos. I'll do that but definitely there's always like. There's always something that needs to be addressed. When it comes to you now having everything be like working the way it should be so oughta work. Slack is like yours you slag affect my life flood like it's the first thing I check in the morning and it's just like yeah. It's a godsend like I was always just like criminally bad at email so I feel like that's like allowed me to like still be functional. Slack is like email untaxed mixed together. Yeah I took me a while to get used to it though and it can be cute to yeah it can be like what are you doing. I'm like like there's no email is for. I know that it's the most annoying thing for the sake of making a statement though so I fully support that large so have you kind of Badger instagram. Do you have any tips on instagram aesthetic like if someone starting out in their listening. Is there any tools that you use that really help with your instagram because that's one thing I feel like you take take time and put a lot of thought into feel. I don't put too much laundry me driving on the street and I'll see like like just even earlier today some flowers by a wall and I'm like hey. That's cute like what if I've seen. People don't think like this. They'll know elaborate. I'm literally like there's a constant like saw going in my head constantly about like what outfit needs to be like put on priority next like what could essentially be like a good backdrop like what you know growing. WanNa shoot next for whatever we're doing for that month for releases like constantly constantly in my mind so I feel like I just try to take every moment like how is this moment use best north from there. It seems like you're you're essentially like also the creative creative director all the time definitely and Yeah I love it. It is not exhausting so I love the off the so. Do you work with your husband like I do sometimes or is it never worked together either. We have worked together and the first couple years of having are you my he was the full like logistical and financial side like batteries audrey figure it out. I don't really recommend it to anyone and even like you. WanNa come yeah. It's just not ideal. I feel like you should be able to like look at your husband and be like okay. I see fun and like you know exciting future things being together not like the day to day like Machen Mirus. I I feel like that was amazing indefinitely necessary for the beginning because that's obviously not where my brains out. I don't want it to even have to to be there. I WANNA use my brain food. That's good for so yeah. That's the kind of a hand off and leg. We put a team together to wear like he could kind of a good exit Taylor. Yeah how quiet is Taylor. I know talk. Some more usually wait I want. I want to say the moment to really can't even see I put him back. Nobody's doing I'll tell you what he's doing. He's back there googling photos of you like I'm trying to do something creepy. He's smiling right now. I know back to see me but you can feel me air. It just got so tired presents no but like I just wanted to know such a lake faithful listener of your podcast favorite so I know that's that's why you know it's a Taylor Taylor's. Should I wonder what she's heard me now. I'm like Oh should. I wonder what she's heard me. Say the Caroline Stanbury. I'm very where he was being like. Extra Taylor and I was axed. We'll actually she's married but she she was putting out a vibe to him and he was loving it okay so she was speeding haeusler. Slave ship lost at sea. He's ready with these google script for every moment that he's definitely a character of this show show. He stressed this like. Let's not Google image. I know okay so there's a lot of girls in this industry that are trying to get into it right now. I am not a big fan of the it's two saturated thing. I I think if you have a unique perspective and you have a way to communicate with an audience than you then there's potential. Is there any advice if you were starting right now. Is there something that you would say to you you at eighteen hours. Just even try to see past everything you've drop everything you've ever seen unseen at like. Make it into what what do you care about the most what something that only you can bring. I feel like I read something like in your. They're so good at this. Make your mess your message and that's something that I'm not good at. That's it's white struck me a bit but I feel like thought. It's definitely like what needs to happen and probably the way to get people's attention now. I do feel like it's so difficult to start right but I don't want to be like no but it's true. Make your master message. That's a real like a really good quote. I would agree with that you have to you have to sort of open it up. Everyone's different like I think it just depends on like what your brand is. I want to speak a little bit more about the business side just because I feel like out of every single influence or I told Michael this in the car that I've ever seen. You're like one of the best. How do you choose where you're going to distribute your product. It's only sold nurse. I thought it was revolved to for something. Oh it's only on your side. We have like full control of everything and that's what he wanted. This okay can you. That's really interesting to me. Can you speak up because when I eventually launched product. I think I WANNA launch it direct to consumer for only two yeah. Why did you make that decision. Well in the beginning. We actually did test how stocking with some retailers brick and mortar with eighteen beckon crusher though to do people don't realize that like they order like. Oh cool. I get an order from a retailer especially. If you're working with one of the big like nordstroms there was I was involved in a company. I won't say which one people comply like Google Wild Rex or got rid of my shares but sign shaking leave the back around with Nordstrom and Nordstrom fucked up and and they didn't put the product out and then what happened was since they since they had all that product this Christmas season past and like Oh shit we have this. Friday thinks that they discounted all of it what they did at the time to that site is everything got price matched and so it completely almost sunk the business salts because of one big retailers. The people don't realize it's not always okay. I got into storm in Barney's nordstroms orchard. That's not the kind of care about and literally like not to be rude but like I can't remember the last time I stepped foot and Barney's and like found anything occurred about it like I just literally can't can't find what I want to make it so I feel like going bankrupt for a lot of influencers to read this. This is going to get me in trouble probably but they want to do these things where they go and they have this this this brand in their head and they go okay. I'm going to get most of this business away to a big retailer and the retailer then becomes your partner. They control a lot of that business. The problem is you don't have any that user data. You don't control your fun. No no you don't have you know if that retailer say. I'm not going to focus on this anymore. I'm not gonNA move onto something else. You're fucked so yeah. You have to control your business and your pipeline. I believe launch everything to direct to consumer I because it starts to take off and you do it well. Then you have leverage and then you can go your sie lay and here's why guys. Oh really done it incredibly well. Here's his trip Liechtenstein over there but yeah like not answering. I mean the way that I plan things out or even. Don't plan things out or Just want for things to beat are you. Am I like it would so not be pleasing to. Let's say like a board or anyone answering to. It's just exactly like what I want. It's a bit like on a whim. I think it works for me. at the size that we're at. I feel like the fact that I don't have to answer to anyone. They have like no say in anything. I you can do like that means. The clothes can be exactly what I want but that's how you made your master message like. That's what you're doing things how you WanNa do it on your own term. Yeah and you're not giving energy to what anyone else is doing. I think that's why you're so successful. It's really just fun for me. I feel so like beyond lucky to be able to do like all the different categories of the things I love about fashion for a living. It just feels crazy like you. Were saying like we're basically never on sale unless it's black Friday but yeah if few army can make sense down the line but it's after you've already built your brand made a powerful business and have control right like you know then say okay. I'M GONNA move a couple of thousand in units or whatever to these stores but you have your hub and you have all that customer data. That's another thing if you go retail. You've no customer data. You don't get any of it. We have everything we literally. If someone's one's wearing are you might we can track exactly how it came to be like yeah. That's how your top customers when how often it's the best yeah yeah so. Who's your top celebrity customer. Would you say out of every one I mean. There are so many amazing girls awake where that we work with. I think the day that just probably will never be topped like when Malaya Obama ordered a bunch of pieces before their trip to the south of France. Now is just like what's not is a good one under under yeah it was insane and I was like okay. That just makes me so happy for the rest of eternity. I don't like we're never going to see those pieces on her. Of course she's like her. Privacy is so valuable label and just the knowledge of that is beyond but yeah then she ended up being photographed in a what is my life doing to me like it's just nice to crazy so yeah and when Kylie Jenner Kendall where something it's gotta sell out it yeah. They're obviously I think Barack and Michelle votes are from me about some now they didn't but they still bomb was using some movies when someone like Kylie or Kendall wear something of yours is it's something that you see right away on the back end. It's definitely like a lot of excitement and there are so many like you know dedicated closet accountable Battaglia so we'll know literally insanely early yeah. It's a palpable effects that they have and it's yeah. This is my own selfish question that I have for you. How do you think how can you successfully go from being an influencer to running a business like you run like. What do you think are things that you look back on that. Maybe you shouldn't have done or you wish you did more of I mean I feel like there was no way that I have known any of it like even like having that perfect team size only working people that you would wanna work with that. You could see yourself working with forever. and I think yeah. It's just the learning curve stuff. There's no way to even know that I mean like I literally was just working for myself for so many years with my blog and I didn't really know nothing about like even now management. I'm just like what like I honey. Similarities deal with that like well. I don't do deal with Eh. Loren Loren has to deal with it no no she. She is like me and you're like her husband though the dynamic no but I'm not like I'm creating content and working with any but you and I are the the same way where it's like. This is what my perspective is a new one. Tommy I'm wrong. Money isn't what drives its. There's so much low hanging fruit like left he gets in this can be like a like we can get in fights about this. It's being able to create something out of your brain that no one else has created and be so specific and detailed and bring it to a customer that not only is going to wear it or use it or whatever they're gonna go tell fifteen of their friends and you know that when they tell fifteen of their friends those friends are GonNa tell friends like that's what I feel like a rush on the purity of that is just like literally the only reason to do it and I feel like it's definitely difficult Chris's the same way. He'll be like WHOA. This would be so easy to do this and I'm like but you know. I don't think there's like a problem in the stock market and I don't need to contribute to right now so it's fine like warrener's understands. Sometimes there's a good time to clarify it so give it. She wants to run around into our projects and blog and take pictures in the street fine. I don't care about the money I love art. Project no problem if you wanted to do this and just do no problem but the the moment when you start the art building a team and you have other people that are reliant on you for their income and for their their life yeah that's when you have to be responsible to the business so for me interested in. Oh because she had such a good balance of will the reason that I have that is because my team is insane and they completely understand the quirks that comprise me and I mean I'm so spoiled by that like literally like yeah. I have such great people that I work with and I'm so lucky that I have been yeah. I don't know they've just like stuck around with me for a shout out to your team. They sound amazing. Is there any tips that you have for hiring someone. Did you find him on linked in. Did you find him through instagram. Graham I think like the they cut off like find me if that makes sense like I don't know my system. I found on craigslist like I mean it's just crazy like how long I've been working with the same people on how like in and out we know each other and like like Sergio my par- my brother like we're just like bicker and just like get each other and like the craziest most Pacific ways It's like a mono grain and then yeah that girl that she was my c o she he she was for a while and then she wanted to leave and focus on our own stuff but we're still working together like she'll come in like multiple is a month and just like help with what she's best. I and I just feel like people. I'm so lucky that I feel that. They want to be a part of it. It's such a positive energy and it's it just feels like that's not normal from what I hear about in the world so I still guitar really really Lucky Joe. Yeah I mean it's all these personalities. You're managing a lot of emotional intelligence feel like yeah and then you're beautiful studio. I've never seen it in person but I'm going to visit. I WANNA visit. I feel like if I go. I want to bring like my photographer because it's so make it a whole thing yeah seriously and same thing for flutter flutter so flutter clutter is I'm GonNa say it's fully fully. It's all Chris's masterminding. It is just I can't believe he pulled it off and it's just what I've I've seen it go from nothing but it is now obviously in like a quite quick turnaround time and it's it's really exciting so it's like it's immersive art experience where every room is basically an installation that you can interact with and like there's so many like tactile and different features every every room and it's just yeah it's really exciting so can accept his babies. That's like a really allowed him to be. That's good though even further apart he on the day to day of yeah so a so so flutter is an art exhibit but I feel like your studio or your office is an art exhibit to it looks on my middle reclassify. Yeah I mean it's. It's so beautiful yeah. Can you sort of like how did you did you design yourself. We had space a few blocks away consolidate everything thing last summer and of last summer into this amazing full floor of a building downtown and that's like the current law which is like above and beyond what are old loft was and yeah. It's all just like things I love like some random marble table from a flea market or we had someone come in and paint the wall behind the bed in February and just like clough was inspired myself. He's like Cherry blossom paintings at this random error. Viewers viewers thing like just random things. I gotTa Bring Western into her like I'm telling you it's the GNARLIEST thing to. It's the most beautiful situation Michael the way yeah. That's very very good. Can I tell you something I want. Everyone to lauren is always the bog to the social situations because I'm like L. Let's go and then she is the the one that's kicking the can down the road and not getting her schedule in order because you will relate to that energy towards creating every David. You just like overall exhausted constantly. He doesn't understand a lot to just. Do Anything. Michael's not going to do that but it's now I'm GonNa. I'm an actually go and shoot up flutter mislead so we'll come in downtown one. What is your morning routine. I know it's specific. okay so my morning. It's a a I feel like I've basically not like not a morning person not tonight. I I feel like I love all times but I feel like the mornings. I really try to reserve for Lake. Just you know planning out my day getting the energy energy correct like literally taking my time. I make my husband breakfast every morning. it's disgusting literally like. I don't know alive my like housewife tendencies. Are there and I never knew that about me until I met listeners are. GonNa be fucked up but it's it's the Japanese side. I think we I think Oh oh my grandma every day a spoil she's she had to cook for me. Even if I didn't want to listen I'm I can't eat them. Completely full pancakes eggs bacon my sister's. This is wake up. She was like no not for you for him. I mean yeah the way that my mom feeds him when we're visiting my goal but I'm telling you it might be in my blood yeah Asian cooking uh-huh. You've cut your husband rock fest gone. I I WANNA keep hearing ideally go he's like I don't know I feel like having a house or little things like heap in order like things I just am constantly learning about like right now. It's like there's something living in my chimney. I don't know what it is. I don't know how to figure out how to get it out so that's like when my projects right now. Jimmy Sweep does that exists still Taylor you Taylor chimney sweep Taylor's living uh-huh you living in the treaty weird. It's like literally like Google it and like apparently it's the sound is like not constant. It's like got an animal is like denning like raccoon is there and it's babies the other nesting it does sound that beggarly gauge the size of anyway so there's. Tony Little things like morning. Wait hold on. I'm never fire a fireplace so bad a human skeleton uh-huh falling down on this guy with like high reviews on Yelp and he's I feel like it's GonNa come except on the job but did you go to find this guy like Mary Cook. I need a guy to come over and clear critters out of my chimney issue anyway so I feel like I dunno just maintenance. You know I take care of that stuff in the morning. That's a really specific and weird one but yeah there are a lot of little things like that like the room news blake brakes. I Dunno these. Little things are happening so you all the time my brakes climbing task of it. I'll make us credit card. Thank thank God for my system article. Six things that you need to be aware of in case you need to hire chimney sweep K. I'll skip number one. It's Boring Cambridge to smelled a strong odor from MMA fireplace or chimney happen. That's like a dead body. I'm thinking number three noticing greasy black suit sut sooner feel like you're describing yourself right now. Now the Senate bill up listed diverse having a damper that is in bad condition and number six worker hearing animals or birds words inside the wall. Yeah I think it's I think it's you guys. I'm dropping it with the value today. Wow people are more bright and early and get in our chimney and figure out chamber Shimla Jamie fucking Chimney Bathtub. I WANNA chimney in a battle for BAFTA sobered. I talk about it every day. Awesome devastating. I tell them this everyday so he's looking onto my chimney available though in their own filth anyways like a cesspool of Hersher take all the time the united outdated. I take a shower before I get in the bath. Oh of course because I don't wait Lawrence. Stop now. You're the Chris. I don't take a shower before you get to a very valid point. I like the Japanese ever wonder what the waters in Japan offers on my God even like mess around with Japanese baths. They're insane. It's basically a whole like wet room and like you have half to shower in the bath without cleaning yourself irs. It's like the Mo- responded Japan because we haven't I I lived there yeah there yeah yeah we got to go on a go to Tokyo and my whole my mom she has like zero family in America like her. Entire family is over. There are three sisters and that's where you on the bus. Yes okay train train train. Maybe but helicopter liked trade gives a show about the bus train. You guys need to go to Tokyo. It's just I would love to go morning routine. Is there anything else green smoothie. What are you. What are you eating and drinking. I'm sure everyone wants to know that your body's banging. I'm sometimes I'm sneaking like Chris's Vanilla Protein which is like disgusting when I'm trying to like see of protein does anything good protein protein grosses. People are so good protein. What yeah it's gotta be a specific protein yeah so the talking as pressing cookies and cream protein that I got wants. Oh Oh my God. The kid's toothpaste tries to be like a flavor. That's not men yeah no. I'm not doing cookies and cream. That doesn't sound like you're drinking. Not In the chimney had that same discussing looks like it's a rite of passage for them. It looks like Seaman Seaman who okay powder no no once you add liquid to it just becomes as Gillette cookies and cream protein batter looks like you can literally take anything to that play yeah. He loves it. Yeah it's jarring. He loves he. Jarring is the word for him it. Oh my God yes yeah. You should go. We decided Michael and I were aboard the other day and we scrolled all the way back to his instagram to see like old photos. There is some Chretien favorites but he was he was trying to do who this girl one time. When you had this like Nice that he had Taylor you can feel it for trump and but he did a Selfie in the suit but I knew what he was up to and I called him out and I said Joe. Are you only wearing the top half of the suit and not the pants are the real sense to you since he was Hitless and you're correct view it. He was only wearing no pants yeah he was pretending like he went out on a Saturday night to make her jealous. Okay did it work but I know sitting in his underpants ads playing video games. I called him up. Literally the upper half of the suit on had nothing honors bare-legged fair so he had no. I'm sure he had no boxers on on no pants and he took a picture of himself in his caption was going out for a fun raging Saturday night. I know that to me anyway aiming for yeah. We must effort yeah. We must admire the. I don't think you can wear them i Taylor. I don't think that's going to work out. I am Buck podcast resource that you can recommend the audience website netflix special. Oh anything like I don't know I don't I don't you kill obamacare. No I don't watch that rush that I literally just watch the office on loop over the office like like just the other one every time leaving frank siding. It's so good but I dunno esters podcast soon to die but still listen to it her in general what I'll you set a podcast earlier but I didn't catch the name it was the Guy Crystal is a comedy okay. I gotta listen to his podcast. I was literally like die like how just his level of maniacal Michael like gleam in his eyes just makes himself. Laugh is the funniest videos he creates on social where puts his face over old news fucking hilarious to. I've never heard it. Why I I heard this person or Lord well. He's a San Diego Bashar Sandiego Bashar. Yeah I mean you know I love San Diego but I like you know no. I Love San Diego. They're just they just need to up their their presentation about like you. You have to love that. It's like anything. The Beach Beach setup is so good the beach that was going to the beaches there yeah you get some space over there feeling a little bit of room wholesome place. The Mexican computers definitely better better. Taylor lives in a chimney without pants blazer in San Diego and pronounces it suit chimney sweeper number was going to say sweeper but there's a special outfit for that. I think the yeah there probably has it instead big top hat. It's a cropped pant. Maybe Yeah Hi Taylor. Thank you for coming on. Where can everyone find you and your brand. I'm at my friends at are you a my and I might not come. Spell your brand though because it's spelled specifically it is okay so it's a play my name if you didn't figure that out yet and it is a R. E. Am I you guys. It's so cute and so many you have my instagram's. I'm wearing it. I love her stuff and it's really looking at sane and it your new pieces all your stuff. There's so much new so many nice things things I mean honestly. I like out of all the brands. It's alright to tell you it's I dare you so much wines very very detailed and you're wearing a top. I think right now most sites leave off the shoulder. I feel like people are gonNA. Ask Me so you have to tell me which one this is before you go. ooh. That's gone. It's so good. Thank you for coming on your amazing in your inspiration. Thank you so much guys thanks for doing. This is fun. That is a wrap on roomies episode. She can come back anytime and talk Biz. Also I want to remind you the gifting campaign. That's on my latest instagram. It's a million pink things Elias l bag the one that I warned France. It's completely curated by me. You even have a pink lemon orange lime juice or you could make Margaritas with it SMEG. There is so much cute. Stop you even win. A MAC book takes five seconds to enter Go check out my latest instagram at the skinny confidential and with that we'll see guys on Friday. This episode is brought to you by skill share skill shares and online learning space offering more than twenty thousand courses. I'm currently using the platform to learn a bunch of different skills that we've talked about. Many Times on this show is the tool for brands and individuals acquire new skills or take signal skills to an expert level of it is the net looks for learning skills online so join the millions of students already learning skill share today with a special offer for our listeners. Get two months of skill share for free. That's right. Scotia is offering the skinny confidential him in her listeners. Two Months Unlimited access to over twenty five thousand classes for free to sign up go to skill share share dot com slash. TSE again go to skill share dot com slash. He SC to start your two months now. 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Part 3 - Forgiveness: Releasing Ourselves and Others from Aversive Blame  (2019-05-29)

Tara Brach

52:58 min | 1 year ago

Part 3 - Forgiveness: Releasing Ourselves and Others from Aversive Blame (2019-05-29)

"Greetings. We offer these podcasts freely, and your support really makes a difference to make a donation, please. Visit tar Brock dot com. Number. Stay, welcome. Story heard a while back of a man who had a really tough day at work, very oppositional conflict with other people on nothing was going as way. So he was driving home on the beltway and his car phone rang. And when he answered his wife was very, very upset. She has this urgent warning, she said, I just heard on the news. There's a car going the wrong way on the beltway and just please be careful. And he said, Dan, that it's not just one gar, it's hundreds of them. I always love that one haven't we all had that experience of going around and wanting to shoot arrows at everybody for the way, they're misbehaving just piss it everyone disappointed by everyone. And then we realize there's one common denominator. So this is opening to what I'm considering as the third of a three part series. It's been spread out over time a bed, and it's on forgiving releasing, the arm ring of, blame that we carry where we make either ourselves or others wrong, or bad, and really that hardening of the heart, and I use the first two of these classes, and they're all available now I'm podcast to really explore the ways we turn against ourselves and make ourselves bad and wrong and the suffering of that. So the third is really had a wide in the circles and, and bring forgiveness to others. The verse from Rumi, which inspires this and many times, I bring it up because I find it so valuable is that our task is not to seek love but to seek and find the barriers that we've created against it. So that's the exploration here, and I find that probably more than most other themes. I come back again, and again to the themes of judgment because that seems to be the single most painful habit. We have of creating distance. And I can certainly say, in my own life that I keep going deeper in the discovery that whenever I've locked into blame where I'm really critical of somebody else. I'm in a trance in some way another. It's no matter how right? It seems to always seems like I'm really right? There is a shrinking of my world, and I'm actually caught in a very tight hearted place. And the other person is no longer a real subjective feeling being there more of a two dimensional character that in some ways fitting idea badness. In other words, I'm not living and dimensional reality. So I watched that myself, and I also watched sense in a broader away, how in the whole development of our species, and certainly an individual our individual development, the creation of a bad other has caused so much suffering so much suffering. It seems like the most important place to pay attention, if we want to have some peace on this planet, and it certainly domain. Main of major research. There's been tons of research on the effect on our own body of holding Rudge's big article on, I think last week in the New York Times on this that will make Harry are grudges over the years. It's associated with higher levels of inflammation, and product illness. And of course, there's tons of research on the effect of blaming not forgiving on our minds that the process, Sifford giving is associated with all sorts of positive emotions like happiness and peace and open heartedness. And this is all kind of intuitive like at something, we'd say, yeah, I can get that. But when it comes to own personal life, and we actually get caught in something where we have felt injured in some way and angry. It's like forgiveness is a great idea. And tell we really have something to forgive and then it seems really, really hard. So we'll look there's different kinds of blame. For many of us. It's just a deeply grooved habit that whenever we feel in some way, criticized or insulted. Wherever there's been disagreements in some way, we contract back and the other kind of push the other away. I find that if we track what it's like to listen to the news if he comes really obvious. What's going on the way our minds? So quickly categorize others into the enemy. I watch it and myself. I'm not speaking others out there that do that. So we know when we don't agree what happened in one story that some of you might remember there's a conversation between the little, girl, our teacher. And she's talking about wells and the teacher's telling the little girl that's physically impossible for a while to swallow a human, because it's throats too small and the little girl insists that it's possible because why Awale swallow Jona, you know. Right. Right. So the teachers starts getting irritated because the little girls being kind of obstinate and says that it's not possible. It's not physically possible. So the little girl several when I go to heaven all asked. Zona and the teachers what have Jona went to hell. And she said, then you ask them. It starts early this thing of needing needing to be right. It's really deepen our psyches. You know this thing about being. Right. So that's one level blame. But then there's the other deeper level when we have been abused are in some way, violated and often early on childhood abuse when our hearts just close up and there's a pushing away. And when we are unable to process it, and move on, it very much shapes our our personality in our relationships with others and creates a lot of suffering. So want to start with some defining of what we mean by forgiving. And there may be some of you listening that feel like forgiving is not a useful word for you. And that you'd rather talk about cultivating, compassion and response to situations. That's a fine substitution. But either way when we're injured moving towards forgiveness. Our compassion is an organic process, and it's not something we can will. We can't say, okay, I'm going to forgive there. There's just a squeeze and shut down in our heart and wounded nece and a hurt that we can't legislate out of existence and Nour's that intelligent, too. That's the first thing is that we can't. Well it as we'll discuss. We can be willing now. Now, there's it's we can engage in a process that helps to open us. But we can insist on it or judge ourselves. Push ourselves on it. Another. Guideline is that in protecting ourselves or protecting others when there's been wounded nece? We very naturally, an instinctually shutdown empathy. We do close down. And that's not a bad thing. That's just part of the process, and I'm gonna talk about that a little bit in a moment. But even as we start reopening. The opening our hearts, does not mean that we put aside boundaries. I think one of the biggest misunderstandings forgiveness is that if we forgive we're just going to open a door and say, come on just step all over me, again, hurt me, again, you know, it's not that in fact, mature forgiveness requires that a tremendous and holistic kind of sense of how to take good care of ourselves and others in the process. I think it's really helpful to. Consider forgiveness in terms of, you know, very biological level. And if you think of CNN enemy, and many of you may have can have an image of you poke a little sin. Enemy is very limited number of cells. There's a contraction danger contract, and that is the way we are wired to that one more threaten more slandered. We're blame when there's an obstacle to our well-being when more manipulated when we're abused. We are meant to contract. Were wired to be angry wired to respond with fight flight freeze. It's an every one of our nervous systems to react that way. And it does include shutting down empathy at the time that we're being wounded. We're not supposed to be trying to figure out how that other person suffering, not then it'll that comes a little later. So just as when were endangered we and there's fight flight freeze, all our blood flows to our limbs, you know, and digestion, kind of slows down or stops. It's the same thing empathy. Shuts down for the time being so it's really important to honor that there is developmentally a phase where we're not -sposed to be forgiving. We're supposed to be taking care of ourselves and all the apparatus defer. Give is not there. Does that make sense at swim? Okay. Give you an example of one woman that I worked with that was had experienced a whole lot of emotional end sexual abuse from her partner. And she felt a lot of shame and a lot of self version and a lot of fear, but it wasn't until she really got it that this is abuse that she fully opened to her anger west until she felt anger that she actually did what she needed to do to take care of herself, which was to get away. To find safety to get a divorce to get help. And I'm I'm saying that because it's so struck me that, you know, we have these spiritual ideas about anger. Well, we need it, and we need it. And I think of social Justice movements and we need our anger to get us going at times. It's a catalyst for change. I felt it just today. I was reading the paper. And, you know, I think that when there's a lot of bad news for years in a row or whatever that are tolerance in a bad way gets bigger in other we kinda get kind of numb to it. But I got, you know, kind of I felt clobbered, and then felt all this anger when I heard about the administration plans to take away healthcare protection for transgender people, and just like anger, and it comes right on the heels of HUD. Has this proposed policy to allow homeless shelters to deny services to transgender people so humor on the heels of that, and just it's like violating friends? It's like you feel when your friends are being violated will that's these are my friends and I felt like it was a good anger. I wanted to lead to. Let's say I'm not sure maybe it's leading to me sharing it with you. And maybe that's the action. I don't know. But there's a phase when we're supposed emotion moving being able to do something, and yet, it's a catalyst for change, but it can't be sustained for healthy change. And that's the next piece we're going to be going to. But I do want to say that people frequently bypass the emotions that come up, because they think they should be forgiving are not angry and it gets them in trouble by via way of another example, man, I work with some years ago. His wife cheated on him. And for the sake of his family and thinking he was being a good spiritual person. He he kinda covered it over, he kind of buried it and said, let's, let's get on with it, you know, she did her apologies and this, and that three years later, he was bitter, he was distanced, there was kind of a triangulation going that he hadn't expected, what happened. And when he went into therapy, he started getting touch with the depth of the wound and I felt the anger, and then he felt the, the deep sense of being rejected, and he brought compassion to that. And that was his therapy for eight months, nine months, and then he was able to widen it, and, and be able to sense more about us wife and where she was coming from. And then they went to therapy together. In other words, they had to do a lot of things to get to where his heart felt open to her and true. Early forgiving way. It's organic and in a way with this points to is I think of two distinct phases and forgiving. And the first phase is when we have been wounded, we first before we try to forgive somebody else, we have to make sure we're safe. We have to make sure we're taking care of her own needs. And we have to bring a healing presence, including therapy, and friend to the wound. Before we can actually bring integrity to the process of forgiving. Another. We have to do that work with our own. That's step one. Read you. This is from the view of four year old on step one who gives internet advice with the help of his mother. I think it's I think this is amazing to me. So a little girl dawn from union city rights. Do you think it's okay to tell someone I'm afraid to forgive you? Because then you might hurt me again, our should I wait until no longer afraid to try to be their friend again. Response. It's nice to forgive someone because then you're not angry anymore. My friend, David really wanted to play ninja turtles. And he just hit me in the nose, and then my nose sort of bleeding. He said sorry, and the teacher said it was an accident. But I couldn't forgive him because my nose was bleeding. When you're nose starts bleeding. You can't forgive someone. But when my nose stop believing could forgive him. Isn't that like as good as anything? Step one in forgiving. We have to take care of ourselves. And not to judge ourselves for, for the anger. Whatever comes up. It's like be present with it. You don't have to fuel with stories of bad bad, bad be present, but take care of ourselves and keep the boundaries. We need. Partout in this world will spend the rest of our time is widening, the circle of compassion to include the other person. And the understanding is that step one and fight flight freeze is necessary. But if it stays dominant we can't continue to evolve. Does that make sense if we stay in that phase if we stay in that limbic reaction, which has its own intelligence? We can't keep hall. It's true both individually and as groups when we talk about social action, I think, of an a group way of, you know, activism that, that anger energizes us. But then if we want to really make the changes that we believe, in, we have to be living from wiser, more whole place. And I think my friend Ruth king who some of you might remember she taught here before, she says it this way. She's anger is initiate Tori, not transformative. I'll say it again. Angers. Initiate Tori, that's the intelligence of it, but it's not transformative. So we need to be able to move on, because otherwise we're locked in the limbic system, which isn't where we call on our deepest intelligence, and our heart, and our wholeness. When we're in the angry limbic system were not able to see the whole picture. We're in a trance so now we're going to look at. How do we forgive others? How do we do that organic process that we can intentionally facilitate a forgiving? Others, wilmer. Locked in blame. And if you've been with me before, you know that this is going to end with me asking you to come up with a situation where you've been caught him blame on, I'm gonna have you do a process with its, you might wanna start thinking what you're gonna wait. You wanna work with. And I will ask you to pick something where there's not trauma, because he'll develop that muscle forgiving a lot more. If you start in a more gradual way. So the first piece on the how to forgive is that we begin with the Egner and the more deeply. We can bring presents and kindness to the wounded agitated place in us. The more that presence can be extended to see clearly the other person we can see past the mask, and the way often describe it. And if you've heard this metaphor before you'll know why describe it as of that dog in the woods, a person's going through the woods they see a little dog by tree. They reach over to pet the dog the dog lunges things Baird person shifts from being friendly towards the dog too, angry and scared until they see the dog has its pawn trap. And then they shift. When they go oh you poor thing, but they don't necessarily go cozy up to it right? But, but their hearts changed their hearts, no longer feeling anger. Angry at it because they see the cause of the action. And so it is with all of us, say, for the most part. Can't speak for psychosis and some other states. But for the most part, when we caused suffering its customer suffering. When we cause suffering when we harm another person are harm ourselves. It's because we're in pain in some way. So that phase of forgiveness. We're widening out is can we see past the mask to what's really going on for this human being? I remember hearing one friend, tell me that the way their mother kind of train them, which is when the kids are I think three or four brothers and sisters when one of them would say something really critical about somebody that wasn't there. She'd stop everything and say, okay, let's come up with three possible explanations. For how come they're acting that way? Isn't that marvelous, what great training to pause and say, what possible reasons? It's much harder than we've been the one that's been injured. It takes awhile to, to bring that presence in word. So we can actually be looking through the eyes that can see I'll share one of the earliest conscious processes, I had of, of forgiving and I wrote the story, it was probably the heart one of the hardest stories for me ever to write about or tell in radical acceptance, and it was a story of being betrayed and emotionally abused by my first spiritual teacher. And I had just had this car, and he berated me in front of a lot of people telling me, I'd 'cause the miscarriage, and it was complicated because he thought I was in some way, saying his yoga techniques caused it's who's kind of defending his turf and it was a it felt cool to me. And so- phase one, you know, I went in word. I took care of myself as well as I could I left the, the spiritual community that I was part of, but then as a couple years, I kind of locked into he did a bad thing to me, and I hadn't ever experienced abuse. I've been very fortunate in my life. I've been treated well and had never experienced anything like that. So it was pretty clear that he was like he did a really bad thing to Mandy, and he was very abusive to other people, too. So I knew this was I wasn't the only victim but. But I was still a victim. Okay. So even after I had been with myself and, and felt my own vulnerability and felt a lot of the hurt and the pain of it, and brought self compassionate start trusting. My own goodness that I was okay. I didn't have to believe a message from some guy out there, even then I still had that storyline of I've been wronged, and he's bad and so on. And I realized after a few years, that was keeping me in a trance that was that was keeping me as if was disempowering to hold that storyline that narrative. And so I very actively engaged with trying to see him. And I asked myself this question Amway willing to see him differently, and it's a really powerful question to ask yourself when you're caught in the transit blame. It's like once you've taken care of yourself and my willing. To see differently my willing to open my perspective, and look through the eyes of wisdom. Am I willing to occupy more whole sense of being and see from that? And I often think of it in my willing to really. Connect with my most awake, open hearted self being in here. So that was the question, and I would actually meditate on him and I would see this mixed bag of human. I would see his vulnerabilities how he was living in his own kind of guilt, and shame. He had a he had a lot of shame around the shadow side. He knew he was taking advantage of people and lived with that. And he was kind of isolated in his power and also saw what was driving him to defend himself and try to maintain his power, and I could also see the good side of him as phytology his brilliance, and his charisma. But I just started seeing more whole human, and the armor and got release, I no longer was in a small place of victim. He was no longer the bad monster perpetrator. Who's this? Human Justice human. So there was some freedom in it, and I want to reinforce it wasn't a matter of letting down boundaries. I was at a good distance and I also is very public about his behavior to help anybody else. That was going to experience it. Because, you know, he was a threatening figure to other people. We forgive the freedom of our own hearts. We really do. We put down blame because blame keeps us armored. So that is one example of facilitating this organic process of letting go of blame. Now another. More unusual. And interesting example, I thought I'd give you was something that I think Janet sent me an article About Eve, Ensler, and she's known playwright for the vagina monologues. And she has a new book called the apology, and I wanna tell you about this, because it's a creative way of doing the same thing of being able to from a much bigger place of heart and mind. Look at the other person who's heard us and understand from the deeper level, what's going on in a freeze. So here's her process. First of all, tell you a bit of her story. And I'll read a bit from this article. When she was five or father started sexually abusing her when she got a little older. He started beating her and it left her suffering from all sorts of physical and emotional challenges night, terrors, and the like she began drinking, and so on. And all through his life. She kept waiting for him to apologize, and he never did, so even after he died, she's kept waiting until she then wrote this book called the apology. And so the text is presented. I'm gonna read some of this as a letter written by her father from kind of void beyond the grave, and he can't lead describes the atrocities committed he confesses the weakness that made him so cool and the acknowledges the damage he wrought on her tender mind and body. She describes the apology and act of therapeutic imagination and for her. She's sixty five nurses, as writing out the sentences writing out the apology, brought her freedom, and I'll come back to that, but I want to tell you a little bit about the process. She went through, she says it takes so long to get to a place where you can open yourself to feel what your perpetrator feels and to know what they've been through and to know who they are because it's much easier and less painful to cash some kind of monolithic, monster. That's really important. Our default other is bad again, this two-dimensional being that comes out of her trance much harder to try to feel into who they are and sense, a dimensional being for her. She had a think about his past and about how he was raised, and what she calls the rape paradigm. His parents severe unaffectionate and the expression of owner -bility or regret were signs of weakness. She goes on to say she's not letting her father, any of user of the hook that it's not shouldn't feel like the apology, writing it was justification. It was explanation and says, most abused women will never hear an expression of sorrow from their tormentors. But by doing this kind of feeling into a another level reality. She says we can actually shift the way those predators live inside us. We move. Move them inside us from a monster to an apologist. The effect of her process, the effect of after she did her a certain amount of inner healing feeling into her father, and what was driving him and the person that wrote this article said, she breaks down briefly, she tries to describe just how different the world suddenly feels. I don't even know what this place is going to be. Now she says her tears turn to laughter, my heart feel so open and away, it hasn't been able to be open. It's like driving a new car. I don't know how to drive this car. I wanted to share this because. And the I'm giving I'm giving rather more extreme examples. But the process of forgiving, the reason that it matters to us, and that we want to, is because it leads to a freedom. That's unimaginable one where caught in the blame. We're living in such a small version of who we are. And as she described she she'd been in that for decades. And just to imagine who would you be if you weren't blaming anybody anymore. A lot opens. This is the second kind of way on a describe this processes is really creatively. Trying to feel into the other person the last way I wanted to scribe is something that's not always possible. But in some instances, is that when there's been harm caused to communicate. For communication to happen. It really needs a very very good container and very, very good guidelines such as non violent communication guidelines, and for not familiar with that NBC is a way of really allowing the speaking to be taking responsibility for what you're saying, not blaming the other speaking, your feelings, making requests, and so on. Unreal other begins to solve when we have real human contact. That's the way can most directly resolve, and yet our deepest habit. When there's tension is devoid that contact. By way of example, Earl and Bubba sitting quietly in a boat fishing, and drinking beer. Suddenly Bubba says think I'm going to divorce the wife, she hasn't spoken to over two months Earl takes long. Slow sip appearances better. Think it over women like that are hard to find. Many people really appreciate not having to deal with the other person. I wanna give by example, the possibility of what happens with communication, like to share some what I've been learning about a show on CNN called the redemption project that I've Jones has has created and doing all the set it up doing all the interviews. And I'm wondering how many of you if any have seen any of the episodes of the redemption project? Awesome great. Okay. Recommend it against the n so it's an regional series of stories of survivors of really horrific violence meeting with the offenders, those who committed the crime. And I thought I would share one of the stories of those encounters because it impacted me so much. It really speaks to the potential, humans have when they meet each other. This is an encounter between Donald Lacey and Chris Smith who killed Lacey's daughter when she was sixteen. And Donald starters. Name was Lois shea, and I may be saying it wrong, but it's two words, some Nigerian dialects in English mean to love and life. Which is the way he described her though a shea and in nineteen ninety seven year when the hundred home assigns and Oakland, one of her friends was killed, and she had been involved with conflict, resolution being a mediator high school. She was really distressed. And she wanted her father to help her write a play spent to spread the message of nonviolence is the kind of young woman. She was sixteen a few months later, she was killed while in a stationary van, and her killer Christmas was attempted friend who is now on a gang. And he didn't realize using the van because that's the setup okay now, Chris friend that killed Kelder hits most of his life in foster homes. A lot of. Neglect, and a lot of abuse, and then he joined again and hid then seeking revenge for killing of one of his friends, but up until then he'd been on the sidelines. But this was his opportunity actually, to get really more included in the gang. And this is what he said. He said, if I go and kill someone for my gang than I would be accepted into a whole other family, a family that will love me, a family that will care for me, a family that will never leave me. So he had thought that the van had the targets the people who were supposed to get in them. And then they found that the next day he killed his friend, he confessed, and then he was sentenced to twenty years. He ended up in San Quentin. Now, after the killing of his daughter, Donald said he was wanting something positive to come out of his daughter's murder, so we started an organization called love life, aound Asian, which is an Oakland based community organization to promote nonviolence. He worked really, really hard and years, later decade. Whatever he had a breakdown. Because you've never really processed. And during the break die starts thinking about Christmas, the killer of the daughter. He said, I realized part of the thing that was blocking me was that I hadn't forgiven him. Okay. So he decides he wants to meet with Chris, who's in prison, and they began working with a group that specialized in restorative Justice dialogues. And for those of you that aren't familiar with restorative Justice. It's a process that brings together victims and offenders and give simple of ways to try to create opportunities to secure and rehab and accountability. So that's the process that. That he wanted to get involved with so, meanwhile, Chris in jail in prison, and he's facing his own demand, and he became active in and a victim offender education group. And then he's received were that somebody wanted to talk to him, and it was Donald lacy. Father, the, the young woman killed. So as it turned out, they both gave permission for their encounter befell MD as part of the redemption series and hence that's how we're hearing about it right now. So they're they are sitting feet apart from each other and room at San Quentin prison. And Chris says this I'm just going to read you bits of what they're saying is I don't know what to expect the fear of the unknown the uncertainty. We'd been prepped for the dialogue for a whole year straight. But nothing can prepare or anyone else verse situation like that. I was nothing but your emotions. So they following the facilitators. They both say what their intentions are. What they want to accomplish. And then as they both choked back tears. Donald Lacey, said the three words transform both of their lives. I forgive you. Christmas in shock. He said it was almost like I didn't hear it. It's like he had to say at a couple of times, for to really register. Walking out of that room. He said, I felt one hundred thousand pounds later six months later, Chris was paroled and Donald all the California court Susan favor of his release. And so now Chris's working towards a degree in psychology. Wants to be a marriage and family therapist focused on single parent mothers and their children. I want to tell you and the story by telling you about Donald, he says, I'm not going to sit there and pretend like it was anywhere near easy for me to do that. But it always felt like there's this ancient African proverb and I forget exactly how it goes. But it's the children choose their parents before they come into the world. I always felt like my daughter chose me for this. The lesson I learned from my daughter. Is this life and this world can be so much better? If we all just put a little more effort into being compassionate. That was my daughter's greatest gift the way. One who loves life? Chose to share a an example, from their Dempsey project, which is for many people listening, perhaps more of an intense violation, though, what we've experienced off for all their many people have experienced really awful things that this is the process of. A free ourselves in each other, and it has to a can't be forced it has to happen naturally, but it's possible and to sense that possibility and ourselves to know that we're ever you feel armored, and blame, there's a possibility if you have the intention to free your heart and like like you described it. You might not know how to drive the car being this new body mind that so much freer. But that's a nice problem to have. So intention is the big deal here. It's that some wisdom in a scat set to keep on volving. That's the invitation to pay attention and to not the life process, and that we're going to keep on getting tricked and contracting. But every time we contract and something in says stay and be with it, and feel it's here, and be compassionate towards our inner life, and then widens a circle, and ask that amazing question, am I willing to look differently at this? To look differently. And we can trust that every moment that we pay attention in this way. How we pay attention. Now is shaping our future. And we start right where we are. Closing that just we do this practice that I've mentioned just bringing attention to our own experience. And like invite you to if you're uncomfortable, Shifter position a little, but find a way of sitting where you can. Bring your attention. Nordli. Invite yourself as we explore this process of forgiving of releasing the arming of blame invite yourself into presence take a few nice full deep breaths. Notice if there's any part of your body that wants to relax. Let go a little more right now. Maybe some place you've been carrying habitual, tightness or tension. Letting go in the shoulders. Softening. The hands. Scanning your life and sensing where you might be feeling armored against somebody not a place of arming because there's been major trauma views. But where the you've been holding blame. Grudge resentment. Might be somebody in your family or somebody at work. There's a noise or just like. Pushing away. The beginning of this practice is to censure intention. The intention to deepen presence. The Anna pathway of letting go a pathway of opening your heart. Part of that means not to judge the speed of it or how it happens. Because that just bogs down things. Letting the situation be. The front of your attention right now. How this person has in some way, triggered off your blame or your anger? Let yourself notice and attend to what happened. The possibility of what we call the u-turn where you move your engine from their behavior to how it feels inside you. And sometimes it helps us to put your hand on your heart and just bring the attention inward. So you're feeling. Okay. So when this person did this acted that way. Here's my inner experience. Then you might feel like you've been rejected are you've been disrespected pushed away and you can feel your own heard, and anger. The tightening and just breathed with that breezes. What you feel. You might sense that you can call in your most awake. Hi, self. The wisest part of you just to be with you, the kindest, part of you to, to help bring comfort to your own heart. Breathing with the feelings of hurt or perhaps fear. Shame whatever's come up. Breathing with what's underneath the anger. And you might sense an imagine that you can offer message of kindness to yourself. It might be I care. I'm here. Might be. I'm sorry, and I love you. I care about the suffering. Take not on puts it, darling. I care about this. Suffering. Sometimes just it's okay, it's okay when it sent with tenderness, so you're bringing kindness to your own being. And if it helps to feel that there's some wise loving, being outside of you offering kindness to your heart that can be useful. Somebody that you trust. And love the helping you bring care and healing to your heart. Could be a spiritual figure. So this first phase of the process, you're bringing kindness in care. You might imagine light and warmth going right to the place you that feels most vulnerable. As you practice on your own this phase could take three minutes or twenty minutes or three months. So that, even as we move onto the next step if you're not ready just come back to self compassion. You don't sometimes we go too quickly into bringing our attention to the other person, and you have to kind of guide yourself trust yourself. If you're not ready, just stay with the self compassion. If you want to explore widening, the circles of compassion, again, from your most awake, open hearted. So you're highest sell your future. Soul begin to look through the eyes of wisdom at the other. And you might ask yourself my willing to look differently. What else can I see about them? And as you look what the eyes of compassion and sense that person somewhere has they're like, in a drop is some way hurting. They're suffering in their own way their fear. They have unmet needs. Their own confusion, their own insecurity. Their own allusion. Misunderstanding, just to see more dimensional. A real human. With. Hurts. Fears. And also hard that wants to feel safe and loved. You can feel your own heart, including both of you. Beyond the rights and wrongs of the matter. New might even sense of this is a person you're in contact with how when you're next with this person. How releasing the arm ring of blame might give you more choices and how you behave. More freedom. But mostly feel right now, your own heart new might close this way, just feeling. The presence. It's here. Noticing if any judgments have crept in about how you're doing the process, and with kindness and wisdom, letting go of the judgments trusting the organic nature of this. And taking this last few moments. In a quiet way to feel your breathing. Listen to the sounds around you. Sense, perhaps an increased amount of presence and openness. And honor that. The lesson I learned this life in this world can be so much better. If we just all put a little more effort into being compassionate that was my daughter's greatest gift. Nama stay and blessings. For more talks and meditations. And to learn about my schedule. Join my Email list, please visit tar Brock dot com.

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The Secrets of the Self: Avidya (Lack of Awareness)

Daily Breath with Deepak Chopra

07:33 min | 4 months ago

The Secrets of the Self: Avidya (Lack of Awareness)

"Today's episode of Daily Brett is brought to you by Sikora nutrition for your body and your mind. Welcome to daily bread. This is Deepak Chopra today. I want to talk about what really divides people what keeps the doors of perception shut. It is a concept called hub Bardiya Video which is the sunscreen with him for lack of awareness most people unless they've spent time in reflective inquiry or meditation or mindful awareness are not even aware of these ten levels of existence. So let's explore them right now. Radio pure being is being self aware without any conceptual intervention the right. Now as you're listening to me just be aware of that. Which is listening and you'll notice is still presence. This silent witness so pure being is present in the midst of all. Exp- is no matter. What the experiences could be a perceptual experience. It could be a mental experience. But when you pay attention to yourself raid non that would be that which is listening. Be Aware of that part of you. That is listening and you see. There's a still presents ninety body. It's not mine it's just. The witness of all expense has the great poet. Rumi says who am I in the midst of all this thought traffic so you are the pure being in the midst of all thought traffic again. Let's move to the second level List let's just remember a moment of extreme joy. Maybe when you fell end up for the first time anyway so when people fall in love for the first time Lee experienced Bill Bliss. But you can also experience condition place when you're dancing when you're listening to music or poetry when you're in nature when you have peak performance as an hat lead the so many instances of peak experience all of these point to condition bliss which then transforms to love in every relationship than not just falling in love but love in every relationship and when we experienced these deeper levels of our existence pure being conditioned bliss love. Then we automatically have spontaneous knowingness. Many people call this intuition with. It is even deeper than intuition. Is the right response to every situation as it occurs without planning without anticipation without resistance. Without memory in this knowingness we tap into the collective imagination ancestors which is represented as Mitten archetypes as a result. We have a more contextual more relational more holistic way of looking at the word which goes beyond win-lose orientations or linear cause-effect relationships. This is true in tuition and trump crew intuition gums imagination for things that haven't existed before imagination is the raw material of creativity and of course being rational beings we want to know the limits of our nation but if you followed me so far where infinite beings than reason tells us that. There's no limit to our imagination and creativity and this leads to a new emotion. It's called compassion. Empathy joy equanimity and actually undestanding our physical body as it process. But not a thing. Our physical body is known through intermittent perceptions and sensations and by going to the source. Which is you're being we can modulate. The activity of the body even converted to a state of well-being at every level so big performance is based on peak. Living which in turn is based on knowing ourselves as multidimensional creatures as a person you can attain video or awareness in one area. But when you do that you're ignoring the other areas so our goal here is to move forward into the light of awareness from of the DEA to bid on all levels when we do that we are leading what people caused a spiritual life. Then the spiritual life is nothing other than a life of complete and total self-awareness. On all these of how Today's episode do daily breath has brought to you by with a car. You're putting the best in your body so you can feel your best if you're looking to change your diet instead of restricting what you eat and what if you nourish your body with the healthiest and most nutritious. Food Win Cigar. You're putting the best in your body so you can feel your best. Their organic ready to eat meals made with powerful plant based ingredients and they are designed to boost your energy improve your digestion and get your skin glowing along with delicious meals to Gara. Also has daily wellness essentials like supplements and herbal teas to support your nutrition to boost results tried the best-selling metabolism superpower and all natural remedy for bloating weight gain and fatigue and right now cigar is offering our daily listeners. Twenty percent of the first order when they go to cigar dot com slash daily breath or enter code daily bread at checkout. That's Kara Essay K. A. R. A. DOT COM Slash Daily to get twenty. Percents off your first order so God dot com slash daily breath. Spas Year for today.

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Weekly Training: How To Stop Being Codependent

ManTalks Podcast

16:08 min | 4 months ago

Weekly Training: How To Stop Being Codependent

"Welcome I'm connor beaten? And this is the man. Talk Show training for men and answers for women. This today is going to be the final segment in the co-dependency series and The first episode we looked at what? Codependency is second episode. Was how to tell if you work. Oh dependent and this can be breaking free from codependency so before I dive in just a quick reminder that Vienna and I have a really great course. It's live right now If some of you have some free time which many of us do due to the The lockdown shutdowns. That are happening right now. Definitely go and check out the program that we've put out a six week program called. Get the love you want. It's really meant to be the foundational principles of relationships. We talk about family systems communication how to turn conflict into connection setting boundaries with your partner and exploring the depths of sex intimacy. So if you have some free time I would strongly suggest you check out this program. We've put nearly a thousand people through it and has radically changed lives and relationships so you could find that either at man talks on Instagram at mind. Flam T. on instagram. That's Vienna's profile or economy dot com so with the housekeeping out of the way Let's just dive into this as I feel like. This is a topic that many people have been asking me about asking me how to break free. So let's just revisit what. The definition of codependency is so. The dictionary defines go to pence as a person with an excessive emotional or psychological reliance on a partner and Co dependency and this is not in the dictionary but codependency can be some what Insidious that can be somewhat tricky and manipulative and from what I have learned in working with hundreds of thousands of people. Now is that cut pence he can be really hidden. It's quite interesting Also noticed that more couples display codependent behaviors and habits than you might think. It's actually quite a more common thing mostly because co-dependency isn't just a sort of like blanket statement of like your whole relationship is Kinda pendant or your whole being as codependent. That's not necessarily the case in some ways you and your partner might be dependent so you might be dependent on one another financially or you might be codependent emotionally or you might be co-defendant from a developmental standpoint and so you can be cut in one area of your relationship and the rest of it be okay or for some people that have a more A more sort of severe codependency can shop in a multitude of ways so codependency can really trick us into believing that we are not necessarily whole without our significant other or any significant other. And I think that's why codependency is of such a challenging thing to recognize because it feels like we need the other person in some way shape or form in order to be okay in order to be safe in order to feel like we're enough or in order to feel like we are confident and performing. Well I noticed that for a lot of men especially that are codependent. A really easy. Sign that we've talked about in past is that a man's confidence and Oh Kanus but his confidence at his value and his ability to perform is is very much dependent on the validation that he gets from his partner and I keep thinking about one of the one of my favorite quotes of all time as coach A quote by Rumi and Romy said your task is not to seek for love but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself the you have built against it so again. Your task is not to seek for love but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it and I love this quote. I love this quote because this really is the work of shadow work right. It is to seek within us the barriers two blocks the blockades the obstacles the Ino self loathing and hatred that we have aimed against ourselves that blocks our ability to love the people around us the world our careers or jobs businesses our customers and clients whatever it is but also of blocks us from being able to receive him. So how would the world look? How would we all look if we actually did this? And that is an incredible Question for us to answer. I think one of the other things that that I've been thinking about is is the twelve step program which a lot of people have gone through. In the twelfth struck program people are encouraged to write a list of the ideals the quote unquote ideals That they have in mind for a partner and I've heard of people in twelve step program Say Sometimes our ideals our ideal lists Are so much less about what we want. The other person to be an all about who we should be in a relationship and for a lot of people. I think this is a big one. So it's less about the partner that we want to attract and the person that we want to become an order. Track the right partner so maybe we need to think about being more emotionally available and communicative in order to attract the type of people that we want. So let's talk about breaking free from codependency. What is important. I have three things for you. The first one are the three RS research recognize and rewire so the first one is re- research codependency research. What could offense is if you if you want. Obviously go back and listen to the previous podcasts. On this I did some extensive research just to be able to bring this information to you But research specifically your codependent origin story. Where has that codependency come from for some people from for some men that I've noticed it's the relationship with their mother? It's the relationship with the feminine entity in their life and the way that their mother nurtured them or care took them or gave validation or didn't for some minutes a lack of physical intimacy that they got in their childhood that they are seeking that from their from their partners for other men. It's that they had a very controlling sort of mother figure that was sort of constantly You know using their son using their their child or children can be a son or daughter to be their emotional caretaker right and that can happen forefathers as well But I've just seen to be a more constant from the maternal figure. So what's your origin story of codependency? Is that what was prominent in your family system? Did you have a parent that relied on you? A very young age to be there sort of a caretaker or or or emotional processing center. The second is recognized your patterns so as I like to say you are past. Pain will equally your future fears. Your future failures and so sort of recognized your patterns. How is that codependency showing up in your relationship right if if you had a a mother who was overly reliant on you emotionally inwood over share and sort of needed you to caretake her in some way shape or form. How does that show up in your current relationship right do you? Are you a repeating pattern? Are you getting in relationships with women who are? Who Need You more than is healthy? And Are you getting validation? From that neediness. I think a lot of men confuse providing with codependency sometimes especially when they don't know the difference because it can feel incredible to have someone who needs us to provide for them to protect them but that can very quickly Turn into something that is a mashed and unhealthy and there's no boundaries so recognize your patterns. Start to see how it shows up in your current relationship and start to see you know. Are you trying to fix everything that is happening? In your partner's life are you trying to force them to abide by what they say? They want trying to force them to go to the gym. Each and a force them to make more money trying to force them to do these things because you want to find value in yourself as a partner by getting them to do something And lastly so research recognizer patterns and then rewire start to choose different notice where you are seeking or needing are clinging to that validation from your partner and start to let it go and consciously consciously choose and say you know what and label it to your partner literally say. I think that I have been maybe a little bit master codependent in this way. And I've been seeking validation from you in this way and I'm going to let go of that. I'm going to let go of the need of so much sexual validation from you. Let go of the need for so much Emotional caretaking from you and I'm going to start to take care of my own needs and ask for what I want. Ask Road I need but do not be dependent on you. So the rewiring process requires you to research and understand your origin story. Recognize the patterns that are showing up in a relationship and then starting to choose differently outside of that outside of the three Rs. I'm GonNa give you two more things the second way and this is an and I'm going to be pretty honest in the past. I was definitely in some codependent relationships. I got a lot of validation. Think you've heard me talk about this before a lot of validation from sex specifically within relationships and was constantly sort of needing that sexual validation to feel good about myself In many ways it was the thing propped up. My confidence was the thing that made me feel better. If I was low it was the thing that made me feel powerful and so part of my letting go of that sort of codependent. Validation of reliance on my partners emotionally and sexually and intellectually was to learn how to develop in. This is the second piece learned. How to develop the connectivity with the South? So one of the things that I started to realize was that I was actually pretty crappy at understanding what I was feeling emotionally and when I didn't understand how was feeling or if that anger or sadness or loneliness or whatever I was feeling emotionally would come up. I wasn't tuned into it and not only was I not tune into it when I did tune into it I have. I had no idea none whatsoever what to do with it and so I was constantly trying to find ways to run from it or to get reassurance that I was okay so the second piece is being able to learn to develop and cultivate emotional connectivity with self that can be through journaling and consciously writing out okay. How my feeling today and you know. There's a lot of anger. I'm frustrated because of what's happening with the stock market. In fact that I've been sitting at home for two weeks and just start to like really tuned into your emotional intelligence the intelligence. That's that's coming from your emotional body and learn how to read that code right your in your intelligence your IQ is just a form of data processing right when you see or hear your thoughts and you. Are you know critically analyzing problem or equation? That is a form of data processing and your emotional. Intelligence is the exact same thing when you start to tune into your emotions it is just another form of reading data of reading information and you can get quite proficient at learning to read and translate and understand the information of the heart the information of the emotional body right so you have three. In my opinion have three forms of intelligence. You have your intellectual intelligence your intellectual quotient you have your emotional quotient and that comes from your heart and then you have. Your intellectual are sorry into wishful quotient and that is from your gut right. That's your gut level intuition. So for me. There's three different forms of intelligence that we have to learn how to Read how to how to translate and how to understand them and each one needs a very specific focus and from most of us men we've just been taught to over index intellectual quotient and that we can figure everything from there most of them in that come and work with me have realized that this is virtually impossible and and suddenly they're like Holy Shit. There are other forms of intelligence with me an E. Q. and in intuition quotient of sorts. Like listen to my gut and I've never learned how to do that. And so a lot of the work that I do is teaching men how to actually listen to their emotional body their emotional quotient elevating e q but also elevating their intuition quotient. Being able to tune into their so learn. Develop your emotional connectivity journaling. Meditation tune in with yourself. Set a daily alarm on your phone This is one that I did for a longtime journal every single day and alarm go off three times in a day and it would say how am I feeling and that moment I would pause and I would tune in and I don't know wasn't acceptable? Answer I had to sit until I tuned into. I'm feeling anxious or I'm feeling good or I'm feeling a lot of love and appreciation gratitude in my life right now And last but not least learn how to be alone without your loneliness. So most people are running from their inadequacies and shortcomings and the codependency in their life is there as a sort of Safeguard from having to feel that loneliness and most people just don't know how to actually be alone and so one of the greatest things that you can do is to start to meet the you that is there when you are by yourself because most people are conditioned to distract themselves. Most people are conditioned to when they're by themselves to sit on their phone. Scroll through Instagram or facebook or watch youtube videos or binge net flicks or whatever. Maybe maybe you're more of an extrovert and you're out there. Having drinks and partying and whatnot just to distract yourself from meeting the you that shows up when you're alone and for most people this is where they're sort of shadow really shines forward is in their loneliness right. That's where a lot of hidden behaviors ours. Where a lot of people will watch the poor and or have a drink or get high or you know. Do the behaviors that they don't WanNa talk to other people about But let themselves get away with so meet that party yourself learn to be alone with your loneliness and without it right and that can come through. Meditation I do a silent retreat every year. Where I go by myself for at least a couple of days somewhere can be out in the Wilderness Nature Outon You know rent some property go camping and just be with myself and a journal in a book and that's it and it is one of my favorite times of the year because it is a very powerful experience. So those are my pieces just to recap one research your codependent origin story to recognize your patterns three rewire. And then after that learnt develop emotional connectivity with self that's developing your emotional quotient and third learn to be alone with and without your loneliness so thank you so much for tuning in. Please do share this podcast episode with just one person goes a long way Don't forget to leave us a rating review until next week this connor beaten signing off.

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The radical experimenters: a rapper, a poet, and a biological artist

Science Friction

39:02 min | 6 months ago

The radical experimenters: a rapper, a poet, and a biological artist

"This is an ABC podcast. Hey welcome to side friction and welcome to the first three minutes. Units of the universe in the first three minutes of the universe doesn't expansion simultaneously Teini Asli everywhere not zero second but close the first hundred of a second hotter than the hottest star blew hot bruting rooting halt. The nor Smith Says Earth was not found or heaven above but in a yawning gap. That was grasp but no way there were no vikings kings. No Vanilla no lampshades but there was Lego like for life in the first three minutes of the universe everything started added to come together. ferment began to develop lips to form the word poem. one-star dreamed of turning away and now they're just so it could have time. I'm to shape clay. The universe became a rogue gallery of Jigsaw fighting for space and in quiet moments. Mango juice squeezed from the heavens and sparkled like Shaq suits. There was the first spoonful of the CARTWHEEL GALAXY N G C one. Three six five with its. Jim Like bots spiraled wills sentence hyperion Jupiter's moons pulsars born cramping the styles of the middle. I molecules began collecting just so that the wood Po Quaid could be part of this missing in the first three minutes of the universe. Atoms rose dancing and just like the poet. Rumi said they were dancing like madmen. Happy on miserable and they just kept on dancing lover. Melvin poet and performer Alicia. Sometimes there with her pace the first three minutes of the universe and Tesha Mitchell joining you for science friction. We're at this end of the universe you are about to in Canada. I eight poetry cosmos a biological artist who grows organisms as living artworks and a rat performer. Whose lyrics ricks pulse site with? Science Professor Oren Katz is co-founder of the Tissue Culture and art project and director of the University of Western. Australia's influential art. Science lab symbiotic. Baba Brinkman is a new york-based rep performer and playwright whose awesome Rep God's to science audits range from climate change to consciousness and Alicia sometimes is most recent show. Particle wave gathered audiences under planetarium dimes times. These three creative experiment is pushing the elastic boundaries of both at n science and shared a stage at the quantum words festival in Perth. Recently cently he's Aleisha reflecting on those first three minutes. What we want to do when we passion about and scientists connect with an audience? And I I have that problem I'm full of hyperbole and scientists aren't and I love that about them and they care about the mess they care about the facts and I hear all that and I read all that and then I'm just like oh his blitz. He's some poetry so I remember Reading Steven Weinberg's book the first three minutes of the universe and it's full of great fact so this was my interpretation mango juice squeezing from the heavens technically correct Richt by the way the physicists would disagree in that universe buddies taking a obviously a poetic license. But that's what I as a poet what I can never find the right words and the reason the movie dirty dancing connected so well with me. Is that moment. That one of the main characters is carrying a watermelon win and she goes up to Patrick swayze who she likes and says. I carried a watermelon. And that's all she can say and that is what I am like so often. I can't find the exact words and I love that about science that they can find words really matter and in a scientific communication or scientific paper hyper words mean everything but I love as a poet. I can sort of pie around with that and Taika Pot. Isn't it interesting that you draw contrast because as I often think when I'm reading your work that infect poetry and science scherer conciseness and brevity of language precision each word gets placed with intent. And yet your thinking of the relationship is quite contrasted. I totally understand what you're saying. And Brevity is so true and as a poet and I'm sure poets in the audience. They can understand this. Every word matters this and carries it's white but the thing is how do you communicate dark matter. Or how do you communicate Nebula something in biology or does I mean I can never find the right words. I love in contact. A film inspired by. Carl Sagan's book by the same. I'm Nice Cellular pinup boy. I'm so glad it was there. I didn't know you were gonNA talk about him. When demon haunted world is such an important political inspiring because well the Jodi foster character Elliott Airway says when she's thrust into space they should have center poet and finally why Korea I get to go in space so maybe on Amazon or something? I'll get to go just to ago. Mango juice everywhere. Do you feel like you could take sides. Or is that that's not your raisin for you all the Wanda I'm about to wonder in storytelling. I do understand that sometimes the failure of can you just beautifying science and that is somehow not enough and and that's why I love what so many people do is they take it apart in question and what aren was hanging is just so incredible what they do but I yes yeah so just like the storytelling and I really need to communicate it to audiences so they can just take away a little bit of wondering their pocket full of wonder. Hey John Adams Americans said you never learn if you have a poet in your pocket. I just loved that I said what are you trying to do with. I've seen your show particle wave. which takes you inside a planetarium? Describe it for people but also what you're hoping to do with that piece it's musical visual Poetic Extravaganza yes. I loved canvas of the Planetarium Dome and from when I was young and a lot of you would feel feel the Siamese diaby lie back. And you've got this gorgeous. Almost three sixty canvas above you and so I wanted to use that canvas to sell tell held. The story of gravitational waves got to work with a lot of scientists and I recorded a lot of scientists and I want the general public to coming and have a sense of awe four so it mixes poetry music visuals just to tell the story from general relativity some black holes look lookit to kill an and just sort of pint pitcher and I want people to come out and say well I might go read up on that but I had a science instinct come in an eighteen year old. He said that she walked in wanting to do chemistry and came out wanting to do gravitational wave astronomy. And I'm like my works done. That's enough poet delicious. Sometimes there when you think about rap song lyrics what comes to mind politics. Maybe six drugs love last year. American crime and punishment. Absolutely what about science though not really well here as Baba Brinkman canadian-born and and married to a neuroscientist at some point these graduate in comparatively chat court the science bug big time and he's now a renowned science communicate through he's rap gods to things like climate change evolution human nature religion and culture my first rap theater popularisation project CHAUCER's Canterbury Tales and a An evolutionary biologists in England saw that and he said good job. Now do you think you could do for Darwin. What you did for Chaucer and the first time I was introduced to do a performance which was at the Darwin Bicentennial Mark Pailin? The biologist introduced me by saying. Don't worry I checked his lyrics. You're about to witness the first ever rap performance. That's peer reviewed house like peer reviewed rap. That's the best idea ever confession. Spend my whole life perplexed. By Religiousness Front doorstep debating with Jehovah Witnesses I was a teenaged empirical thinker a spiritual seeker obsessed with rap. I considered it liberal research. This was the medium the Daca thinking speaking flipping ridiculous speech over beats like every weekend weekend my CD collection became my personal gospel. I wasn't apostle I think part of it was an unexpected side effect of doing science. This communication rap projects and that side effect was that I became way more gangster rapper and partially. That's because I used to be a communicator of my ideas in the humanities and interpretations of symbols and it all felt very woolly but the first time I did a rap show about Darwin I was I'm representing the scientific consensus around the factual basis of common human origins and natural selection as the key origin of complexity Adaptation in nature. Take it with me or the Army of scientists that you know. I kind of found this like voice in the science communication wraps that I had never had in my previous work doc because of the confidence of this is the best of our knowledge. And don't worry I checked and then when I'm up on stage it'd be like he's a fax and and Yeah I don't know I really. I enjoyed that. And it also got a great response audiences really resonated with it so I kind of became this like. It's not very hip hop to say this way. But this soldier for Scientific Orthodoxy. I mean all good rat taps into a bigger kind of power of some sort like a power our of a community or a cause or a plot so he wa science literacy. I think is an important thing that all science communicators can contribute to and wrap was not a channel that had been used for that. But I think it's a powerful channel master. The craft that could start a new religion devoid of superstition vision. A descendant of secular humanism with the ecstatic rituals of ancient mystical shame. Mystical visions except based on philosophical naturalism. Which means no supernatural or natural claims? No counterfactual nothing. But reason and evidence troops rational in my religion. The truth is sacred and science adjudicated in meditation. Who You WANNA find your human nature exists Q.? And it's not rude to face it. Enlightenment comes when we understand how evolution shape this demon human haunted world you can take it from Carl. Sagan read the Christian religion involved whether it benefits one of us or whether benefit saw nap to problems they're gonNA get solved. Religion evolve the biggest sale of society. The bigger the God people get along when someone's watching them. Religion evolved will send a rocket skit on a man mission to Mars to holy wars. Don't kill US first. Let's hope Jimmy Ball just not you know you. Mike Congregation a few years ago. I got fascinated with this field of research called evolutionary religious studies which is also sometimes called the cognitive science of religion and the ideas. Let's treat religion as a set of behaviors and cognitive processes. And try to come up with naturalistic explanations. For how how our species gained these instincts to believe in the supernatural or to attribute forces to an agency or intelligence and then also look at sort of cultural models models for how the details of each religion evolve so has of course. Religion persists in societies and eleven theorist would say will must be an evolutionary benefit. It's a complex behavior although it that's the debate is an evolutionary benefit to the individuals or a group is it to the groups or is it a side effect of something else. That's an adaptation or is it a cultural adaptation that's based on earlier physiological psychological adaptations. That had nothing to do with religion and then culture coopted it so there's varying theories he's but what they have in common is that we don't need a supernatural explanation for supernatural explanations. So when you sit down with your creationist family members or indeed audiences because I know you do and you tell them that they they fight system might be just a belly button biproduct that guy. Hi Dad when I created this rap evolution of religion show. I expected to get religious pushback but I really didn't I have people faith. Come to the show show all the time and they tend to say to me afterwards. I don't agree that that's where religion comes from. But I appreciate you taking us more seriously lead than most atheists because I think most atheists are prone to say they're just stupid they're just crazy it's a delusion you know snap out of it and at least the evolutionary evolutionary religious studies perspective perspective says. Okay I don't think it's true but that doesn't mean it's useless. So let's look at the adaptive benefits that draw people to it. It and I think a lot of people who are religious are more interested in a horizontal dimension of their religion than the vertical dimension. Like how does it change the way they interact with people. And that's what theories of religion are all looking at is what are the actual functional differences between having not having faith and can help us get to the origins of faith from an evolutionary perspective. So validating in a way. That's a really interesting point if you turned up though to to give a public lecture didactic kind of thou shalt believe what I'm telling you people without the REP track. How do you think that would go down? By contrast to an audience of faith for example or an audience of climate denies for example I think rap is designed Zayn to make you feel something I think as an art form. It's like a interact with the crowd. Colin Response Throw your hands up. Get people to laugh or cheer. Whatever at it's best that creates a rapport an openness to think about the ideas that you're talking about that if it was just like? Here's how it is. It would be more of an argument mode. I'm so I try to and hope that rap can achieve this connection visceral connection that can be a sort of lubricant for for information passing between people but nobody comes to my show and completely changes their mind after seeing one performance although they might get curious and decided to go read some stuff over time be like You know the like seed has been planted deeply graffiti with every one of the arrests. Everyone of my shows shows ends with a picture. That's got a bunch of books references back to the question at hand conscious mind. Try to predict your thoughts as best. I can and predictive predictive never even considered what religion is adapted for. Or if you have the night predict you've never heard of rap before how do I know what the Dapper I mean. It could be random drift. Could be a by. I product comes something else that has adaptiveness like your belly button which is amazing. But it's not really Ford navel-gazing onto side effects of your umbilical cord. So Religion Gin might be a viral mean that's parasitic or it might be an adaptation for maximizing descendants it might benefit individuals or it might benefit whole groups. Were might be the invention of cynical priest trying to control you or belly button glad product to recap them in the past maladaptive in the president. Those are good questions to ask. And Science can find the answers and the answers of non obvious except for the answer to where religion doesn't come from divine providence. The thing about rap is that in. Spain traditionally A. Y. will always be a way of expressing injustice rage fury anger disappointment that moment. There's an intensity of rage in many rap lyrics and this is what makes it so interesting this space in science now science is now at the heart of a whole lot of rage in society and if we look at the nature of the climate change debate quote unquote. There's a lot of rights they from all different aspects of the community and I wonder whether you're tapping into a particular vine there to wrap since the beginning has had sort of. You've strong negative emotions about societal injustice as one of its channels and celebration of the good life as a number one another one of its channels and the celebration of the good life wraps have ended ended up having more commercial success so a lot of people associate rap more with like showing off jewels and dancing and and material wealth celebration. And you don't see a lot of rage in that channel and sexual conquest. Yeah right so you know I think but I think both of those associated expressions of rap can be put towards science communication challenges just different ones rages inappropriate response when it comes to reacting to the fossil fuel manipulation of the political system in order to continue their highly polluting industry and slow down the transition to renewables like that is completely outrageous and people should feel rage. It's a it's a generational generational injustice that's been perpetrated Rabkin channel that but it can also channel the celebration of technologies that allow for greening and we can we can make electric vehicles. The new bling and wrap can help us with that channel as well. He's saying so. I think I mean really like the range of human emotions are on display in rap songs. uh-huh and it's like which one is appropriate to which science communication challenge and I was thinking about you. Climate Change Chaos Rep when when I was thinking about ride. The challenge with climate change is that you just say those words in everyone gets more depressed. So how can you have. People have fun with that in a way. That itself is something that you can play with and subvert and the techniques have rap can help so one of the songs I do is call fossil fuel ballers and unlike fossil fuel. If you're burning something Holler back back in. The crowd doesn't anything I'm like. What no one's GonNa Holler back? This is a western democracy. You guys burn tons of stuff. Let's be honest you know. And then the next time I do the chorus people alike and he started hollering and then by the end of the song. I'm like get loud if you're all the back and there was like yeah we burns off and at the end of the song that I'm like. You should be ashamed aimed if yourself so you can kind of use the tech the call and Response Techniques of rap to put get people into a zone of getting comfortable about looking at their own behavior savior and then start a conversation with that about what lifestyle. Changes are desirable necessary. You know what what are the proposed policy policy solutions to climate change. Some of which do entail a scaling down of our current abundance of civilization and others of which don't and You know it's more a reorientation away from the most polluting technologies where we still get till use energy everyday which most of us probably still WANNA do sides. Rapper Baba Brinkman their biological artist. Oren Katz Work and collaborations challenges is to think critically about the limits in the wild possibilities of biotechnology with his partner in work and life Dr Yang Zor. He's been cultivating living sells to Mike Art Forms for decades so there was the semi leaving steak. He made out of frog cells and then ate the victimless leather Eh. The jacket constructed from cultured cells the Porcine Wings Project in which he grew pink stem cells over a pair of wings because why pigs might fly and a whole lot. More work is creatively Franken. Stinian in the best kind of way Orhan no relationship decides news nemesis instrument. It's it's an interesting relationship so I went across boarders and this is a clue for you as well never till the customer. The border control people cheering artists. They would say that you so whenever I cross borders I say my work. He's he's looking at the the cultural impact of life sciences and the reason for that is actually true is as an artist. I'm really interested. In how contemporary life sciences changes which is our understanding of the concept of life. So that's the interest interest is more lyft and science in the sense yeah but sciences kind of provides the most radical shifts on spending afford fees and therefore I twenty three years ago popped myself in the science department at the University of Christmas. Rilya never lift in in a situation where actually really run research center in about science departmental not now twenty years. No that's it allows artists to come and work in a fully equipped barge club am Eh so often people confused affected. We're using the tools of science and they call US scientists but we we actually doing art using the tools of contemporary biology working with the materiality -ality of life in manipulating of life as a way to get at least insights into how undistinguished life is really needed. A major revision is a tie. Goes back to those early years of win because now you're in the mainstream you're a center of excellence in biological art but then you doing stuff that really scared the Bejesus out of people you were taking tissue cultures and growing them over all sorts of objects just described what people so I'm Steven cubing referred to is the closest thing to Frankenstein decide to fiction and live with it quite well So I did. My research actually studied product design and I was really interested in in what I observed in which is very snow but not suppose in the ninety s biology is increasingly becoming more and more for an engineering discipline in life becomes raw material for us to exploit the news and extract value from an engineer. An engineer in many different ways so I got really interested in that was predicting a future take. Designers would be called upon to design leaving biological products. Once engineers engineering them designers come into to designed and I found a suppose picked both the exciting but also extremely challenging failed. There's needs to at least explore. Some fair does What we refer to those ontological issues that are being raised from the sweet as Asian and we can now use in such a way and I think one of the most important events to tap into as I was studying was the appearance of the mouse that human errands book? Don't know how many of you remember seeing it's So that was nineteen hundred. Five demoss was created using or the era of the most was created using our technology tissue engineering and for me as someone was educated in the art and design. It was surrealist. Dream comes alive but he can't live with their hands of scientists didn't really recognize majoring. Major kind of cultural impacted the image of alive naked mouse. Oh hello smiles with human. You're going on it's kind of being on TV screen and for me. It was okay if they're doing that. I need to move in was particularly interested in this very same technology because of its ability to stop living material but more importantly I was interested in the idea of tissue engineering without debris of mouse. So what does this year. For example as a sculptural object tells about our understanding is having a body. What does not you too you know? What does it mean to be alive to have bodies? What does it mean if I can take sales from you from other people and distribute them around world what it and not just humans so so the whole field of tissue culture? Tissue Engineering became an extremely interesting one for me because I could grow sculptures using living tissue. Keep the sculptures alive and that was one still one of the main challenges. We have of bringing living sculptures into nineteenth century institutions. which are the museums are designed to keep the things waved thing exactly but basically unchanged all ideas for them to try and get a slow time and if you bring something which is living and dying and evolving and get contaminated rated off those kind of things that freaks them really fix him out? Well also you were taking the you taking what they. What is their power in a sense which is to use these these tools to grow tissue culture you know? This is a very kind of private specialized knowledge amongst very particular community. That is the community of science. Let's and he. You are some Bryson artist. Walking in and cultivating frog cells intimate that you then eight growing peak sales els porcine stem cells over wings. So you have pigs flying you know all sorts of stuff you really screwing with their head. But the funniest thing is that actually the support I received from scientists was amazing because the full field of tissue engineering it to time was just in its infancy and didn't know where it's going. What skills they need in order to do it and is a huge misperception about what artists do in the world? So sometimes we exploiters misunderstandings. They thought that we're going to make the beautiful. They thought going to communicate indicates and and create some kind of acceptance. But all we can do is artist. Great awareness that you were going to promote their work rather than critique it or rather than question mission you know because it's not even a critique of science it's critique of how we nagging behind is a culture in understanding of what life is while not so much. The science that technology technology to deciding to employ the knowledge that the scientists are generating in ways the tweezers society. We as a culture have no words or language to describe right. Did you have a comment and I just want to ask you. I'm sure you've followed this recent research where they can now grow Neurological or annoyed trains and in some million neurons or so that are in a network that show neural activity and now they're debating Is there a subjective feeling in this collection of brain cells which is functionally functionally equivalent to a tiny piece is area of the human brain. So I guess right away as you were talking now my thought was Would you have ethical concerns about creating organization based based art and if the answer is no then what would your artistic interaction be with the idea of a work of art with its own subject subjectivity. And what would be your duty of care. Is it's creating title Frankenstein exactly so those are really great question. We started exploring those questions in the late nineties. So in one thousand nine hundred ninety or one thousand nine hundred we already started the culture fish neurons and with the idea of what does it mean to grow at least kind of symbolic way fragments of brains outside of the original body from each there they were taken. Then we started to seek an extra interim we created a piece in two thousand one called fish and chips where we connected fish. Neurons to robotic arm to produce drawings owings and there was direct stimulation from environment that stimulated the neurons in order to produce those drawings detrick was taken by one of our researchers guy. Ben Ari we would develop seriously folks called meaty was working with retinue runs and now he's traveling dwelled with a piece called self so it's collaboration with team is just not Nathan Thompson. Another other researchers where he used his on sales used a PS technology which bisky took his skin cells made them into stem cells into nerve cells. GRUDEN F- sales over in a rare Felix roads that are connected to use a phonetic synthesizer display. Live with musician. Jim We traditions. So all of this is to say that here. We've been exploring during those questions of what does it mean to have things at least perceived to be responsive this Andy. I kind of stepped back from that because I treat me out. Oh yeah ask me. Alex sounds like in the logic of that project is. It's okay to torture and organize. His lungs is made from your own stem cells. Yeah that was one of the ideas that the it's like he doesn't I want to subject anyone else so we would subject on neurons into it and it's very likely that the response we got from the neurons does nothing coherent. Teach them screaming. It's like get me the fuck out of you. That's right. How would you know you need to learn their language so I love the fact that something free to add though? This is a good start. This is rich conversation conversation. But how would you describe as a poet. Your relationship to science is it is science your muse or yeah. That's a fascinating thing. I grew up with two people on my wall to start with one hand Solo. The other was called Sagan and and I a lot of teenage boys came into my room when I was a teenager and just walked straight out of that room so aw I was absolutely passionately in love with science and in high school was sort of discouraged from going down that route so I went down to not route but it just kept. I kept calling me and calling me and I find that in some ways they are completely different they have different framework sometimes and then others. They're so oh similar with without science you with both test you compute you. Guess you observe you connect. There's so many different ways that they come together and I would just love reading about science like I can't help it and I tended towards looking it physics and quantum physics and astrophysics so I looked outside of myself a bit of Hans Solo the Solo being that mercenary in in the Star Wars Saga. who was a bit of a head and you had a hand blocks to buy side? He his foreign pants and a wookey. Paul Sagan had big lapels and a gorgeous voice but he broke down science and science communication in a way that I can understand. He's COSMO's series. Just thought this is going to be my life somehow and I couldn't believe that it came to that and I always feel lacking on how you feel Baba but without a science degree. There's always that sense of insecurity when I'm looking at science but I can't help it. It's something I feel completely passionate. But after all those years of rating in you know more than any science degree would have given. You can promise you that and I'll just WANNA come back. Though to. That teacher was at a teacher. It was a scientist show but they thinking you of all people you truly in awe and passionate about physics. Well it's really funny. Those Myers Briggs test which. I'm sure there's a lot of scientists scientists who'd say that perhaps these aren't exactly scientific. They all came up with should be a scientist or an artist but to be fair to the science teacher. We were breaking breaking chickens in half and I've been a vegetarian since twelve so it was about biology and I was really backing off that and to be truthful I didn't know I didn't have the confidence to to go into science because I think if I was doing Dada Day after day after day I would have filed. I need chaos and creativity but I didn't realize you can get that in science But I just didn't know if I have nine. That physics was an option. I would have done that then. It's never too late no as you've proved RN. You're working at such a fascinating frontier. They as much going on now. In the life sciences I just did a series of programs on Synthetic Balaji which is a saint essentially using engineering principles to engineers synthetic life in all sorts of ways shapes and forms. which is you know has fabulous possibilities bility's but also fabulous concerns about what might happen if we create an organism that is then released into a population? What what happens? So you're working at such a frightening exciting excellent frontier-free aren't you think so. People are trying to make from scratch quick so they're basically trying to put together different types of chemicals to create something that would express Lifelike behavior in one of the most advanced. Groups are doing the Abasing acing Zurich in Switzerland and they realize in some stage that they would never be able to know if the successful or not so the employed philosopher to tell them if the work is going to work or not because the question of flies to realize was a philosophical question rather than a scientific one and so I think this is an ex extreme thing especially when we move now towards this idea of applying engineering logic. Living Systems engineers are not really philosophers to put it lightly. Well it's this idea. The two of engineering evolution to pick up Baba was describing to us. So do you see your role as being that philosopher North think artist of a very different role artists pointing the finger at places where we think philosophers to go so so we are. We are doctor carries the goal in the coal mine. Because you you know philosophers would rarely enter delib and what we do. And do the modal redevelopment seem to kind of get as many people involved not saying that this is the only model you can do is where we get artists to come and work in the lab experience into most physiological experiential. Way What it means to do those kinds of things. What are they learning? What are they doing? Give us a visceral sense because it this visceral. It's very visceral so but it ranges so we see yourself as a research lab. The deals with questions of life from the To ecological we seem to come focus. Focus mainly around the kind of the cell and tissue level and the idea of manipulating living cells and tissues. We also often go to the origin. So we are harvesting the cells ourselves. Yes we usually would win an animal sacrifice. For scientific experiment we would take the company buy products With and we are very much so when when I show oh my work I I often show us for some blood and guts and show death and show everything which relates to the idea of life and consequences of what does it mean to engage with life in such a mentor. We identify areas that need more cultural scrutiny driven by you know represent poets and philosophers and social scientists and geographers and whatever other people who have an interesting life but never have direct experience of engaging life that happens in labs all over the world by scientists and engineers should be doing more. Ah themselves to or are they too close to their work to understand the social ethical consequences some scientists are really good at doing that in the life sciences most of the scientists coming and because they are curious and end up acting as kind of utilitarian lead monkeys in the life sciences so much a scientist but the hyperbolic all around a life science is generating also many unrealistic expectations about the utility indication of. What's coming up in and outs of really genuine concern of sci-fi uh-huh really concerned about those unfulfilled promises? And how can probably trust is being eroded with things like the genome project and crazy promises that were delivered lever with it. There's a lot of a lot of bad sites going on then. Bed is a strange word. What is good sides? I mean there's a scientific methodology but how do you. How do he's describe what bedside sees on the other hand there's a little bad science sane and again that's a value judgement? I mean I get something out of everything that I participate in zoos but there is there is sort of bed out sometimes when you get on a high horse about something. Isn't this just anything that Sti- I identity for telling you all looking at things quite simply and just surface level and what are in saying about moral and ethical works by science and art sometimes people just push things for the sake of pushing it in. That's not interesting. So and also it's subjective objective objective. What what I think's bad you might not think spared but I think there's bad all over the world Especially akin to science are. It's just sitting the science spice. It's very easy to get to go. Oh Wow wow look at that an artist doubling with scientific knowledge. ooh But then war attempt to diagnosis. What you're talking about a good Canadian Margaret Atwood was asked so is there is writing for expressing your emotions and she said no writing is not for expressing your motions ratings for evoking emotions in other people and I think great art really understands that and takes it to his as far as it can as a technique take and a lot of people that decide? I'm going to communicate. Science with art are more interested in the science than the art. They're just like these are important. Ideas has let's try to get them to people by putting window-dressing on it fails as art so I think the intention to have it work as a as a performance or and as a work of art having the design process be taken as seriously as any other genre of art and it's also about science. That's when it works really well but if it's if you think your message is what makes it worthwhile. That's kind of narcissistic master. Batory even as well but Ralph until my students if you have an interesting story to tell it doesn't really matter what technology used to tell it and that's right that's riding any kind of riding if you just want to hear yourself then Pepsi something else fantastic. Can I please get you thank Oren Katz Baba Brinkman and Alicia sometimes sometimes joining me from the Quantum Woods Festival biological artist Professor Oren Katz Rapper. Baba Brinkman and poet Alicia sometimes thanks to co produce. Jane Lee Sound Engineers David Lemay and Christie Miltiades and quantum festival directors John McCready and Sharon Flynn Dell from riding South Wales and writing W. A. on the Tesha Mitchell on twitter at Natasha Mitchell. Catchy next time by you've been listening to an A._B._C.. podcast discover more great A._B._C.. podcasts live radio and exclusives on the A._B._C. Listen APP.

scientist Oren Katz Baba Brinkman Tissue Culture Carl Sagan Alicia US Jim engineer vikings Rumi Patrick swayze Canada Australia Steven Weinberg Natasha Mitchell Teini Asli Po Quaid Shaq
The Waters of life

Podcasts | Charlotte Center For Mindfulness

13:43 min | 6 months ago

The Waters of life

"TO START I WANNA share the work that. Mica Diane Karen and I did last week about how we're going to re work are are Mornings on the basis of All of your input. It was really sweet to sit and read them pod Show Wednesday mornings pretty much going to do very similar Tuesday evening We are going to keep our our just the same nine thirty to ten thirty. Then we're GONNA have a break at nine thirty and about five minutes for people that need to leave to standard stretch and then recruit for those who want to stay as we explore. How do we give more space for smaller group sharing time discussion time? practiced Sharing time so That's going to look like all sorts of things and I hope to have time to kind of give a little little driver enough that Today so we're going to do that then one of you to. I can't remember which had the beautiful idea of gratitude board The MICA was at you. That's brought it up actually came from you. Why didn't think about it for here? That was lovely At the detention center. Yeah the pillars painted in the nice colors with Try a race markers to write gratitude on Show we're going to try to have that and we've got three gratitude up there today and neither. None of us wrote our names. I would suggest write your name to and that board is going to be there just to share with each other In the morning and then we have a community Anyone who's willing to help offer some sort of community sharing event joining That came up really high on the surveys. People wanted more time for just community. Get together like a pot luck or a movie night. The way we decided to do that is whoever's willing to organize they get to play on what it is And we have our first to people who are willing to organize Ellen from Tuesday evening and Jen who goes back and forth between Wednesday Tuesday. So they're going to get together and come up with some idea for our first community event. Okay help me out one amend missing. Oh the practice group okay. So the other thing that came up high is people liked the idea of small practice. Groups get together like Once a month where you meet with six to eight people for six months to really share about practices deeper level So I'm meeting with someone who does that with another group in town And picking his brain About how we can kind of formerly organize that here so that will come. The last thing was Paul. I think it was you who said the lunch with roomy and so that would kind of go with the community events if someone has an idea like lunch with Rumi people liked that as well But what is going to take someone willing to say okay? I'm going to organize lunch with roomy. It's GonNa meet But you know and then the organization can help support. Share that word out so if you feel moved to actually pull that off Speak up or if someone else has some idea That you would like to offer I know bill. Hope you don't mind saying no you've seen every now and then like online courses And I know sometimes what happens around the country. These are national online courses is small groups at a local place will get together to explore it together through the course as another nice way of having a small group sharing so what that would take is semi feeling inspired by an idea and and then the organization can help support. But the word out and just deeply appreciate y'all's willingness to kind of jump in there and help look at this and anyone who wants to share as we get stronger at supporting each other particularly in these very difficult times where we need this Self okay so for today I have a short story and then out of this Story would love to explore some small group exploration This is a story from a brothers. Graeme story the water of life. Love that story but it's very long very very very Fruitful STORY TO EXAMINE. But just so long that actually don't think I've ever brought it here but I read this kind of shortened Alternative version of it. That's just simple and goes straight to one point and It it fits right in this theme of how can we look at our practice in a different way to help strengthen I get it stronger? So in this version this comes from KOSHEN. Polly ELLISON The New York Zinn Center for contemplative care. And I'm modifying just a bit from his to Show in a kingdom far far away long. Long time ago there was a king who was very sick and he knew there was something called the water of life. The Cure Him Make him well again. He had three sons so he promised the sons who ever could find the water of life would inherit the kingdom now. The eldest son was considered the smart one the wise one the intelligent one and he was the eldest and so he just immediately said this is mine to do. I am the one who is going to be able to use my intellect to figure this out and and father I will come back with the water of life to Save Your Life. And so he goes out Travels who knows. How far eventually crosses a bridge? Where of course there's a troll under the bridge and the troll POPs out on top of the bridge and before the troll can even say anything. The eldest brother looks at the troll. And says you disgust me? Get Out of my way and literally knocks the troll off the bridge and goes on. Well you know as it turns out. Trolls actually have some magical powers. And maybe knocking off the bridge in that. Smart. So the troll as as he's disappeared off into the distance you know throws a curse Adam And the curse land and the eldest brother finds himself in a narrow canyon that gets deeper and deeper Muddier muddier until he gets stuck mired in the muck he can't go far. It can't go backwards. He's just stuck so he doesn't show back up the second the second brother In this version is called the fabulous won the handsome fabulous one and when the oldest brother doesn't show back up. He's like well. This is mine and liking kind of this big ego at Quay Puffs often. I got this and he goes marching out. goes a fair distance Crosses A bridge troll jumps out pretty much basically the same thing you disgust me knocks the troll off the bridge. He gets cursed. He gets stuck in trouble somewhere. So eventually is just the youngest. Who's left at the at the castle with his father sick. Neither brother coming back and he realizes that this is what's needed for him to go out and look for. The water of life is just what needs to be done. He's actually called in this version. The dumb lean Sometimes that's referred to as the simpleton the one who is a bit slow a bit simple but he sees what needs to be done and he goes off. He goes who knows how far crosses a bridge troll. Pops up on the bridge and before the troll can say anything he looks at the troll and he says. Oh Hi how are you? Who are you and ask him? The question and trolls can have dumbstruck. That somebody's actually greeting him with care. Hospitality that the Troll Lake is a little taken aback and says oh well. I'm the troll of the bridge. Who are you and the brother says? I'm you know from such and such king them trying to find the water of life to save my father's life and the troll says oh I know where that is. Follow me I will take you there and The troll and the the brother go off and they get the water of life. Bring it back to the father. The father is cured and the youngest brother inherits the kingdom. So it's kind of this beautiful metaphor for like infant number things but if you think about it for practice why do we practice the water of life? It's like the water. We're looking for to help heal. Our illness are paying hurt. I worry and what often happens when we practice is our intellect gets in the way and tries to bat trolls out of the way. And we get stuck or or our ego gets caught up in it in a way. That's not helpful. Tries to bat trolls out trolls. Pop Up that's what happens. You go on a journey. Trolls are going to be there. That's just part of it And it's not until the youngest son walks on the path with the different kind of orientation with a willingness to meet what ever troll happened to pop up on the path and that act of meeting. The troll is what allows him to find the water of life. The troll is not. What's in the way the troll is the way that a really helpful turn around and if you just paused for your own self right now and consider your practice. What kind of trolls pop up for you? That feel like they are standing in the way of the path. Maybe it's a troll of business too busy. Maybe it's a troll of distracted. Mind my mind is just too crazy to settle down in this moment. Maybe it's a troll of anxiety or worry maybe it's troll of just Called up and too many things you know it doesn't you know what's the one for you. What are some of the ones? I mean rephrase it. I know I have more than one. What are some of the ones for you like maybe just named one internally for yourself and then consider what's what way do I need this troll? This like the first two brothers. And what happens with that? What do I know about meeting the troll? Or what am I learning about meeting this troll? The third brother what happens with that.

Troll Lake MICA Diane Karen Rumi Quay Puffs Polly ELLISON Muddier muddier Graeme Ellen Paul New York Zinn Center Jen Adam five minutes six months
461: Questionably Awesome - Your burning questions about JOY answered

Earn Your Happy

35:47 min | 8 months ago

461: Questionably Awesome - Your burning questions about JOY answered

"Someone's always going to be disappointed or upset but your mental health and your actual health is literally everything so give yourself some grace cancelled party if you need to but if you cancel don't feel guilty. Welcome to earn your happy podcast. I'm hi I'm Laurie. Harder founder of the bliss project three time fitness world champion fitness expert and cover model turned self love. Junkie Lifestyle Entrepreneur and author author. Each week will bring you a guest or a thought that will help you bust through your fears. Connect to your soul and get focused and clear so you can elevate in your life business and relationships. We don't wait until we're ready for someone to tell us we're good enough. We take what we want. And we anoint ourselves yourselves get ready to earn own and on apologetically rock your happiness every single day. Are you with me here. We go welcome back to another questionably awesome episode episode. Where my co host Evans? Yes and I talk about all things that you might have thought were questionable to be awesome and the move that they're not they truly are awesome. They're all they're all awesome. But you guys for real. This is a podcast episode. That is very different from the other. podcasts this is where we pretty much Include anything that could be covered under Shenanigan. Yup and we also like to throw a nugget it of wisdom in there. So if you don't like to laugh this is not yet just not Alario one go to an interview Go to a quickie but this one this one is all about like you should probably drink four beers before you listen to us. I know it's eight. Am For many warriors but but just go straight to the fridge and grab four Schlitz. What's Schlitz I think it's a midwestern beer? Oh it sounds kind of light and refreshing. You want us. Let's yet. Hey let me get you a slit say did you already slipped this morning but I also feel like that's kind of like Oh got Schlitz all over my shirt I dunno no no Schlitz. It's GonNa do you know what what I'm GonNa make it a thing today. It's a thing it's a thing now like if you spill you've Schlitz if you gone to the bathroom you've Schlitz. Let's Yep if you've what could be something positive I mean those are all positive clearly you Schlitz Confetti all over the place I had it. Mary-anne Schlitz again says so many readings. Oh guys I want to know what your your Favorite Schlitz is so if you WanNa send us stories. Yeah sure is a beer. I don't joke joke about beers. That aren't beers no. It's one hundred percent of ear. I recently watched you so you know when you're on an airplane like and it's a long ride I can start with movies that you're like. Yeah I'm interested in this and all of a sudden you find yourself watching. A beer. Documentary watched an entire ninety minute. Beer documentary was so so intrigued. And do you know what I ended up doing. Why ordered two beers during it what I've never ordered beer on a plane in my life and I order like their fancy beer because I how fun is that it was Super Fun and because they were going through I believe it was mostly a documentary around the taste testers at Budweiser and so all vigil? Budweiser brewery. This is actually quite interesting. Yeah has the top taste east tester there who is known for their Palette and what they do is at the end of every single year one of the taste testers gets like crowned like the best taste tester and Budweiser. It's like a super huge honor. Wow so they send in all of their samples of Budweiser at the end of the year. So all of these different breweries from all over the world God all over the world send in their samples and they get rated on you know Ferdinand acidity like all of the things that they rate them on. And then they the Basically go to bat battle. So it's this huge thing about like trying to make the perfect budweiser but when you think about it you just think it all comes from one spot and it's all the same woman. Yeah I just thought that was so cool. I'm like Oh my God. Every single place has a different and these taste testers are like so they're pallets are so they have no idea what they're tasting and it's quite crazy because there was one in there was a brewery in Asia that like every year they kept coming back kind kind of the same flavor notes over and over and I thought these tasters are that good that they have no idea what they're tasting. And they are. They know insistent in Exac- what area has what flavors and I also thought different areas like had different tasting different notes. It's so weird. That's very complicated is so complicated so anyway. I'm going to challenge you to watch a documentary on something totally outside of your norm and just allow yourself to learn something new so that when your dinner with New People you seem interesting I love that and I it honestly makes me want to have an ice cold beer right now today today right now you know what maybe next time. We're GONNA crack something open on a budweiser doesn't mean we have to drink all of it. Yeah I mean if you want to for me. It's kind of tough because if if we cracked open a beer in the morning it be like my third beer that morning. That's do love a beer in the morning. I'M NOT GONNA lie. I had a roommate remain. who had an alcohol problem? She called. Yeah is she called it going to the beach in the morning and she would crack. Open a beer in the shower. Oh man she'd say off to the beach in your anyway if you want to know my background. That's about where we did a thing in college when you'd be getting ready for a party like oh you would be for the shower. Our we were sure cool or like drinking a beer in the shower. How are you gonNA Shampoo your hair properly without a budweiser in their xactly? Now I had a beer earlier in the same. I can't same somebody who's listening to this. Has recently had a beer in the shower. Yeah actually I think probably not at all. Yeah I think that's not my audience actually probably not. They've had a lacroix in the shower. Maybe maybe that sounds Nice. Yeah that does sound awfully refreshing. Might try that. Maybe maybe not in the winter like hot cocoa in the shower Yanai sometimes. That's good alright. So did we ever quote. What are you up to me? Yeah I feel a little. We were talking earlier pulling a little overwhelmed. This holiday season is that is that a a new feeling for the holiday. ACAS I kind of feel like I. Just think of December and start hyperventilating. What I could really use a a decorated paper bag right now to breathe into have yup heavily like sometimes I just start tripping out on the future in like Oh and we got? You gotta be shitting me. I just went to a party. I have another party in another party in another party right. I'm already socially awkward. told me that every day and then don't make me eat sugar and I'm like wasn't gonNA drink cocktails last night. Totally dead of do look good. Lord I went to a party last night so well I'm feeling it and that's great and then then you do the thing that idea which is like the next day. I'm like I shouldn't have done that. Why do I always do this? That's the part that actually kills me the most so I'm trying to bring so much grace around that because because that's it it'll wake me up wake up at like four. Am like after doing something. That I'm like Oh. I promised myself I wasn't going to do that. And I'm like yeah what it's stat. I'm just trying to bring in so much. 'cause I can't do that to myself anymore. It's like it's literally crushing my soul. Yeah your shame it's we're shaming ourselves totally and it's not it doesn't help you make the next day better no it robs you of all your joy all of your energy all of those things. So I'm it's so funny because I've been waking waking up in a bit of a panic I'll be super stressed out and then I'm like what what are you GonNa do. You GonNa look back on your life and be like. I'm so glad I didn't go to any parties or socialize. Enjoy this time of year now. That sounds terrible. Your we're going to get back to our routine GonNa catch up on sleep. We're going to you know. Get back back to our normal feelings and pant sizes exactly. My pants are a little tight right. Now guess what L. Fit sometime. You know what I look like beautiful Christmas cupcakery beautiful Christmas muffin meat. You might those bushy trees. That's really really wide. Do you WanNa be a skinny tree. Nobody he wants that shade. Exactly exa- I want a lot of I wanNA skirt on the bottom of Tree Lafi. So that's what I'm working on. I agree the as my mom said to me the other day. She was like you know what they're they're always be laundry it'd be done. Yeah so it's like go to the Dang party. It's so true there we'll all you will. You will get back into your routine. Don't even worry that's what January is all about. In fact I would like to argue that your next year in your setup for next year would not feel the same and you wouldn't have the desire to want to create something to get back on track to be excited about getting very focused if you didn't have time to just kind of be so out of your normal routine great point like if this was three months ago and I was like yeah. I'm about to like change something. Go hard on my normal routine. I'd be like no. That's what I've been doing. Yeah lowering you gotTA swing the pendulum. You really really do right so you know what we be swinging. We'd be swinging really hard right now. Yeah exactly and I'm sure everybody. Listening is swinging pretty hard to so. There's something in their hands at the station at the station turning turning the knob still don't get I don't know do ya quo. Chris always tells me the best jokes are the ones you have to explain so that was a joke. So we'll just move on. I think I'm going to hope to get it later. This is. I don't know I like that thank you. Here's here's the thing about jokes you guys. I tell this to Chris all the time. I say that funny. People are the most brave people which year one of the most funny people I know because you have to put it out there and it's not going to land lake totally. Someone was just speaking at our mastermind and he was a stand up. Comedian he goes. You know in order to be great you have to you be willing to bomb. And he goes I had to be so willing to bomb and bomb all the time as a comedian he goes because I wouldn't you don't know what lands ever so don't use that one again again. I just you know I'll put it in the back pocket for never it's never come back somebody on here. Many people on here got it and there are just no. They're like God. Thank God that's over. Do you have a quote we review. What do we do for quotes stolen? Some somebody people are listening. bingoing these dumb asses never know what they're doing you know. I hope I hope empowers you to know that you can do anything right. You don't have to stick to a root that's why we're pretending when we don't know exactly my quotas for my Angelil if you're always trying to be normal you will never know how amazing you can be. ooh Doesn't isn't that. Just talk about what we just said. Yes yeah if you're always trying to make sure that things land and you're funny you'll never actually be the funniest version of Evans Right. Just be yourself you feel not to be confused with p you to remember saying peel all the time as a child he you you move so stinky I know about like why is it P. U.. Does that stay. Is it an issue. P U the letter P and U. P.. He p you have school that anyway. You look that up while I okay Mike Welt this is from roomy and who I have a roomy quote on my arm arm actually yeah. Let's give another roommate quote. Okay all right. I'M GONNA get questions about what the Rumi quote on my arm is it is. There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen this quote though from Roomie is sorrow. Prepares you for joy. It violently sweeps is everything out of your house. So that new joy confined space to enter it shakes the yellow leaves from the bow of your heart so that fresh green leaves can grow grow in their place. It pulls up the rotten routes so that new routes hidden beneath have room to grow whatever sorrow shakes from your heart far better things. We'll take their place. I love that it's so beautiful. Because contrast is what makes things what they are Contrast is what makes you experienced joy so luckily whenever whenever I'm in a place where I'm like wishing it away I'm like Oh this is yes. Is it ideal to be sitting in the space for a long period of time or a year or two. No my God goodyear. The year must be coming. I after I had so many years like that where you know once you have like a really great year and you're like well like things are happening. You feel really good. There's a lot of great things entering. Sometimes you get three or four year period where it's just you're Kinda live in and you're creating joy and you need to those years are teaching you to get really present. Didn't and be happy with what is an exciting. What is because it can't always be highs? nope yeah when you're in the trenches. Sometimes it's hard to see like oh my ever going to get out of this But you're creating how it feels you are. You're totally creating something. You're becoming something exactly like you are becoming that beautiful diamond under pressure. Oh Yeah we love a diamond. I'm Angela diamond. Actually things are changing with diamond. You don't need a diamond you don't and people are getting. What is it called the? It's a new version of a diamond. Oh the ones they make. Yeah I think that's really cool. Yeah totally like why. Why would you spend so much money on a diamond anymore? No people love it. It great if that has meaning for them spend away but if you could get a larger stone if that's what you want like a big beautiful ring of whatever right totally do do that you cannot do anything you want now after you want buyers and you can get engaged to yourself you know. What can I still do that? Yeah absolutely I'm going to ask myself out while you're I might buy myself a fake diamond ring me because you know what we deserve it and you know I have a right. Hand Me Jill. That one's for me this. When was this one's for me? Yeah what do we have a review of the we. Oh we have a review of the week and it is from Carl Bird Carlberg eighteen. It's it's really nice. The earner happy podcast is the fuel for my fire and never fails to bring me a spark of joy into alive a big spark. Everyone's Day Morning Lori and Evans join me for my morning workout. Motivating me to keep working on my dreams. And they're fun and silly ways on more than one occasion Asian people stopped to ask me why. I'm smiling and Giggling so much during my workout and I recommend the podcast to them. My friends and I have inside jokes inspired by Laurie Evans. Witty conversation in Parentheses Juggernaut. I feel like we're all one big DR cheering each other on cheering each other's dreams and celebrating our authenticity D.. Wow whenever I'm feeling anxious data myself I'll revisit lorries quickies for an instant dose of motivation or the questionably awesome episodes to remind me that life isn't is meant to be enjoyed enjoyed. I haven't in my vision board. One day meet Laurean Evans and attend the bliss project own happening. Thank you for shining sharing your irreplaceable awesomeness awesomeness this Chelsea bird. Oh Chelsea Bird Chelsea bird. Let's fricken amazing L. C. Byrd Chelsea Bird. I'm bought to do something crazy. What are you gonNA go? You're coming you're coming to Bliss Evans. I know Chelsea if you write customer service. I'm GONNA give you free bliss ticket Gustavia right now and totally serious. I love that so much and why not. This is like Oprah Chelsea bird. You don't get a car but did you get br bless project ticket. So you'd better write this all if you're working out right now. I want you to just drop it like it's hot for everybody. Drop it down low and be like this that blessed baffled you juggernaut you. I hope we get to meet you. I can't wait to me Chelsea L. C. Byrd Chelsea bird. This ticket is non transferrable. If you can't make sure they're Marina Marina del Ri- Hey what are you excited minded about bliss this year. Oh I really excited about everyone. That comes yeah because you get to meet so many wonderful women And I just can't we just see what you do this year. I can't wait to find out what that is. That's great it's going to we so good. It's crazy once I get into that. I used to like stress so hard like I don't know what the beginning is yet but once I get into the vortex of switching gears because right now there's just so many different things things leading up to. It bent love to focus on. I'm in that Vortex. I have learned so much about what it actually means to trust that you are supported because I know Oh that once I mentally switch gears into planning for it. Everything opens up and things start flowing to me. It's just that I'm not opening that channel yet because it's too much all at once so so anyway for anybody who was planning something or worried that they're not going to know where they don't know it simply because that's not it's not time yet and it's not your focus yet so once you shift into those gears and focus on it. It's about focusing on what is present now. So if you're thinking is not present now there. That's a big reason why it's not like everything's not flowing but it will and you have to have faith on that one so l. that what's our question. Okay well these are all about joy and this is from at Al Dot lands. What do you do when you feel like nothing is joyful? What do you do when you feel like nothing's joyful? I like this question because everyone has been there. I think And I feel like your best advocate So for me. I kind of have a little checklist of like. Am I doing all the things like my eating. Well my sleeping am I taking care of myself and if it's like Oh. This feels like a heavier thing I can. I'm not a medical professional but for me like seeking professional help has helped me in the passive. It's like wow. I'm really low. Something like that but I would encourage that person to seek the kind of help if they think that would help them or is it like a little teeny tiny twist of things. Where maybe you just need to get more sleep and maybe you need to talk to your boss about your workload or or something like that I don't know those are million good things that I think. That's probably the best place to start is a self assessment. How honestly a question I asked is like how much do I need Is this a Chris thing that I could talk to him about. Is this a friend thing. Do I need to call in like a friends circle. Do I need to get really vulnerable. If I don't feel like I have the right people in my life to ask this question in like either reach out to somebody do their therapists. Do I need to reach out to a coach. What do I need like because we cannot do it alone? I remember there was a point where I this was. This was a while back. I was in my early twenty s but there was a point where I felt so out of control with food that I was like. If I don't call somebody in this serious. It felt like a serious Korea like disorder could not and. I couldn't get out myself so I needed to call in coaches and friends share what I was struggling with just a it was such a massive cycle Michael of binge eating. I didn't know how to get out myself so it doesn't matter what it is. That was one thing that I knew I was literally in the gym and I was just like breaking down because I can't go on my life like this like fearing food not enjoying food not enjoying social settings so I think for that. I knew I needed help. I was like I I need to help. You can just tell I think you you know when when something's not right is in the same cycle again over and oh it was like a Monday. I just hated myself like I couldn't I was like I can't live with this loathing. This is horrendous so See like seeking help. That's just one example. I have a multiple multiple moments like that where I'm very aware that I'm not gonNA DIG Myself Out of this one by myself. So and it's so crazy to me that we think we're supposed to do it alone. The Holy Crap. How can we be on this planet? That's just like bursting at the seams with human beings and we're isolating more and more and more and we are so meant to be tribal like we would not have survived in the past. That's the problem with so much. Just with social media is a huge blessing. But that's the problem with so much technology and social the media is we are able to now live without people but I would argue that we might be physically here but emotionally were dead. I I agree. So don't do that to yourself. Don't cut yourself. It is a journey just to start collecting gathering in meeting people. But hasn't it changed. Changed Your Life yes like. Even these Thursdays have changed my life he do. It's the best. It really like. Just the the connection and the reminder of who I am at the core. You're clearly a very funny person. Amazing same with you exactly funniest person ever funniest person ever you need that reminder once a week importantly portio Celso portio sell through it. cuz Ain't nobody GONNA come do it for you. Unfortunately no no not even by not even your husband. No especially if you're relying on your partner your mom or your children your super fugard right. You remember that word. What do you do for fugard like? It's it's supposed to be like. Oh yes you are. I don't know where that came from. Mental Library of sorts collaborated mid West. Do you have another cue. Oh yeah this is from at Brit Gal pugh grape gouge. You sorry I really mispronounce that how do you I hope find joy within. How do you help people find joy within themselves and stop relying on you for their joy? Welding whoa Britney Swans hidden hidden close to the homestead. Yeah this is super abandoned. My past but very much also it can still arise sometimes now. So how do you say that say that again so I can clarify. How do you you help? Other people find their joy. When they're relying on you? Yes this is GonNa be one of the hardest things that you will hear and that is is sometimes you have to create a massive boundary Remove yourself from the situation not be there for them in the same way that you were. Yeah not let them lean on you because they're leaning because you're allowing it because you're showing up as a constant pillar in something in your life and our G or way of acting is telling them that they can lean on you and you will show up or support them in that way so this is completely an ownership thing of oh I continue due to allow them to throw this burden of me being their purpose and joy and it's going to require either a conversation or energetic cut off and also a physical cut off meaning like if they are texting you if they're saying things like I I don't see you enough. Why when when you're seeing them you have to tell them why that makes you feel a certain way like you know what life is busy? I love you you I want to support you but when you say this sometimes I can feel. This is how it can make me feel whether you are meaning to do that or not. I understand Dan. You may not be meaning to make me feel that way at all but it makes me feel like I'm not enough for you. And I'm focused on X Y and Z right. Now now I love you. What's a way that we could You know have a win win conversation and see each other and see if we can compromise on that you know something something around that how about for you. Have you ever had a loved one. Your Mom your dad a spouse a friend a friend from the past like really really rely on you further joy yes. I think this happened as when I got married. I had to remind or one of my older friends. WHO's like my mom's age Had to remind when you're not responsible for other peoples happiness. Yeah so you can't be like. Oh why isn't this person having a good time. Or why aren't they more joyful or DA DA and it's not up to you you take that. What is that burden? Yeah it's a huge burden and if someone's relying on you like that's on them toiling. I don't know how to stop it. I think it's just kind of mentally checking in with yourself and Giving yourself some space from them. You Know I. I've literally a million percent. I've had to sit at like dinners lunches. Whatever that looks like with a big group of people whether whether it's family or friends or whatever where there is one person who is not having any fun in the whole group is having fun right and here's what I used to do? And here's where what I still fall into the trap of. I'm a huge people pleaser. I WanNa make sure that person is okay. I take it on as my responsibility just like you just said and and what would normally happen is I would take my focus away from having fun and all the joy that I'm having with everyone else and I would focus i. I would just hone in on that one person. I'd start to be like what's wrong. I'd start not even say what's wrong. I'd start to try to make them laugh. I'd put all of my energy into into making them have a better experience and they wouldn't or I'd put all my focus there even though maybe I'm still talking to other people. All of my focus would be like. They're not having fun. Oh my God I feel their energy. Oh my gosh this is awful. Oh this is ruining my time. Why aren't they having fun? This is terrible. And maybe they're sitting there with their arms crossed and I'm just like so bent out of shape over this one one person not having a good time and then I talk about it in the car on the ride home and then I carry it the next day. I'm not like I. It happens quite often often in different situations whether that's just in your business life or whatever that is what you focus on is what you experience and you cannot control or take the responsibility responsibility. No matter what no matter where you are if you are showing up in a way that is positive and you've done your work and maybe maybe the party is your our party. If you know that you've done what you can to create a good environment. It is not your job to be the person who make sure someone is feeling included. It's so so hard it's literally not like if you've done your work on like inviting people like getting people to go like going up and talking to them once or whatever that looks like yeah it is not your job to go around and hold their hand or make sure that they are okay like so I am going to ignore it The best that I can Dan. That's all you can do. You can only do so much. I'm not GonNa let it run me and my joy anymore. Yeah it's a mean person included them. You invited them. You're are surrounded by joyful people. Then it's like hey it's up to you to totally shoes joy or not in this moment totally or that one person who always like needs attention. And if they're not getting the attention they pout. Yes yeah that one. Yup I thought off cutting you off. Sorry I've been there before to bend the person who's a powder me me too so as much as I'm preaching I'm also preaching to myself because I definitely do that with Adam. Meyer paying attention to me. Oh yeah that used to be a huge you saying in the beginning of course is marriage. I was just like needed. Oh it was bad. Oh real bad so silly now. I'm just like oh she he entertained. It cuts me off so I'm like oh I actually know that now when I act that way. I'm like getting cut off quick right so he taught me that he was not going to reward my shitty ass behavior. Yeah so you need to teach that person and look at it now. We now do not do that anymore. On our marriage average like ever so now like that is what you will do for that person in the beginning. It's GonNa feel terrible. You're gonNA feel like massive asshole. Yeah but you're not you're not. You're you're actually teaching them that you're not going to reward that behavior by giving them attention. That's what happens. That's why a toddler or child keeps acting out as if you keep rewarding matt attention now I don't have kids so someone with kids is like you're an idiot. I don't have kids either but I've seen it happen. It's like we're warning my dog for whenever whatever she goes to the kitchen I give her a treat now because she's now trained me that she keeps barking at me. And I give in if I wouldn't have given in like my brother in law nick when it comes over and he's like you are. This is ridiculous your so your dog. Has You trained. Because he has such a like. He's a good dog that he's a good dose of mine. The very disciplined the dog is so good waffles on the other hand runs my show. Sodas George he runs my life. Oh for sure she she has now Evans started barking at me at night like around. Oh Yeah so then I go get her one and then I sat down and then she starts growling and barking at me. You serious. It's it's it's gotTa stop. I don't think I should stop though. Because waffles serves all the trees. I totally agree. I yell at her I go. Why are you bullying me? And then she does it bore and I go. We'll get more tree. Yeah because she's just so thank you so if this is a telltale sign of what I'll be like with my children it's going to be a great. Yeah it's going to be real bad. Well what do you think what do you think are we done. What are we doing? You know let's go to some wisdom. Oh you should go I go I feel like I feel like what's your wisdom around joy in the holiday season. It's the holidays Doodoo. Deluded literally meaning Batum Hickory doc I believe they say in the Hickory decorate like who says Hickory Duck. Oh Yeah don't forget to linebacker. Clocks feuded owens like that's not what they say But all right yeah I like it I liked it Joy around the holiday season. Damn give yourself some grace because each you if you have five ten twenty extra pounds on enjoy your life You could die tomorrow Jerry. I'm just being honest like we do not take it serious enough that our lives do not last that long and nobody gives a rip about if your if you've gain a couple pounds or how you show up at the party. Can you and you know what else cancel party if you need to to be on. Nobody actually cares if they're not sorry. Sorry we don't care for your there. It's true like when people cancel on me for parties. I'm a little disappointed for like thirty seconds. And then I'm like great. The the people who are there are going to be great right and if someone is disappointed or upset like it does someone's always going to be disappointed or upset but your mental health and your actual health is literally everything so give yourself some grace cancelled party if you need to but if you cancel don't feel guilty if you know you're going to sit home I'm on the couch feeling more guilty than if you like worse at home than if you went just go yeah just go buck up put your ornament underwear on and you get your ass out there. Those ornament on these will really help. Yeah totally and like we said if it's an awkward situation you tuten rockaway. Yeah you just get diarrhea. That's a great way to get out of a book. I got diarrhea. Yeah to be totally honest and if you really want to actually get diarrhea you could. There's stuff that I take. It's called calm the doses one teaspoon. But you could take like four four teaspoons. Don't do that well if you really want to get out of it and be like no no I really have it like like some people are on here like I can't lie like that. So yeah if you want to create a if you want to create a truth by the way if you're GonNa ask me about calm it. It is the world's best like method to go to the bathroom in the morning and to fall asleep at night. Because I can't remember what's in it starts with an M. magnesium magnesium magnesium so it's like you can get at whole foods. This is not an ad but my got our. If they'd sponsor the podcast win that just be the best. If a Poop inducer her answers questionably awesome. Yes because I think it's very on brand it so on Brando on brand then maybe we could also find a natural poop. Spray goes hand in hand. Could be like we're going to give you treat and we're gonNA cover that treat up. Yes and this time of year. There's a lot of pooping on there is and maybe we could find something poop spray that smells like gingerbread cookies. Warm warm gingerbread cookies. That does not I don't like that. Oh well the heat is provided by. You just wants to stop talking talking about it. But wouldn't that be nice. Fill like wait. That's the bathroom but were you begging baking gingerbread in there as a matter of fact I did you know we could start calling it the bakery. Chris calls it the woodshed. Why did you visit the woodshed? And I'm like absolutely I. Maybe lots of ashamed. That is the most ridiculous thing and I love it so stupid. Awful an amazing so anyway which I'm like. Yep Did we meet our quota for talk today. We just did a good job. We need to meet her all right guys so I'm so oh so grateful for all of the people who've stayed on this long. I know you guys deserve a medal. You really do and until next time make it questionably. Nably awesome yeah goodbye. Everyone by happy holidays holidays. Thank you guys so much for spending this time with me on the earn. Your your happy podcast. I am so glad that you stopped by. If you could take one second to share this episode with someone you think would love it. That would be absolutely absolutely amazing and we would be forever grateful. Also please leave us a review. If you feel so moved by going to I tunes and leaving us an honest thought and honest comment tall us what you think. Tell us what you want to hear. More of. It would really help us out on our journey to helping thousands and thousands of people until then. Don't forget to earn your happy Thanksgiving guys bye bye mm-hmm.

Schlitz Chris Evans Laurean Evans diarrhea Shenanigan founder Ferdinand Rumi Chelsea L. C. Byrd Chelsea Asia Dang party Bliss Evans Exac lacroix Tree Lafi Chelsea Angela diamond panic
144: How to Build Good Habits and Break Bad Ones

The Psychology Podcast

49:44 min | 1 year ago

144: How to Build Good Habits and Break Bad Ones

"Welcome to the psychology podcast where we give you insights into the mind, brain behavior and creativity. I'm Dr Scott Barry Kaufman. And in each episode, IV conversation with guest, he will stimulate your mind and give you a greater understanding of yourself others and the world we live in hopefully will also provide a glimpse into human possibility. Thanks for listening and enjoy the podcast. Today, it's a great delight. Have James clear on the podcast clears website, James clear dot com, receives millions of dollars each month and hundreds of thousands subscribe to his Email newsletter. His work has appeared in the New York Times time and entrepreneur and on CBS morning and his taught in colleges around the world clear is the creator of the habits academy. The premier training platform foregin ization at individuals that interest in building better habits in life and work. His latest book is called atomic habits in easy and proven way to build good habits and break bad ones James such today. Hey, thanks, Dr. Manson. Talk to you. Good. Talk to you to this book that you did is right now this your life, your magnum opus. Yeah, that's true. I mean, it's the most complete and comprehensive guide that the other habits work and really how to change them or how to shape them. And you know, it's funny. I mean, as a scientist, you'll appreciate this flossy too. But I think a lot of authors. They write a book and then because you put so much effort, energy research into a book for me, this was a three year process to finish the book itself in probably six years writing before that. I think a lot of time once the book is published, you double down on all the ideas because it took so much effort to put it in there. But in a sense, I'm trying to view this as like the world's Most Polish, I draft on habits, you know, and so I put it out there and I'm hoping that I'll get a lot of feedback on what people enjoy financial, what questions they have or where there are gaps in my thinking. And then you know, hopefully I can send out a revised and updated version five years from our ten years from now, whatever in really fix the flaws, they're there. So I like I'm very excited share with people really proud of what it is, but I'm also excited to continue to improve it while you quickly walk it up because that's one of the main themes. Your book is to continually improve. Even one percent. You know every day I'd be happy if I put one percent every month. By lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I was impressed with those who can do that every day. Yeah. So I really like that too. You said the first draft for the world like the world's first strapped. But personally, you obviously went, I soon you went through more than one draft. What was your first draft like this book, your man. Well, this is maybe a little bit of insight into my process, but I totally over wrote for the book. So I I ended up having to ask my publisher for next year to research and write it. Once I got about a year in realized this isn't gonna be enough time, and they very graciously gave it to me. But my in first full draft of the book was two hundred and fourteen thousand words which is over seven hundred pages, and the finished version is about two hundred fifty pages of texts. So it's about one third of what it was when I first put it all together and I'm glad that that happened. I mean, it needed to be refined at home down, but my hope is that I was able to like still capture the essence of all of those seven hundred pages, but in a more digestible, easy to understand, simple, actionable format such a common thing for that. I rap to be bloated as they say, because you rarely know exactly until hindsight, you know exactly what are the most relevant things. Till you see the big picture. We said his case for me, you know, that was definitely the case. I didn't really know what the book was until I had written. That's interesting. Sounds proposal. Well, it was always going to be a book about habits, right? It was always it was always going to be that I've been writing about habits, James dot com for six years now. And so I had a lot of ideas about habits, a lot of individual strategies for changing them or specific tactics that you could use a given situation in there may be say, thirty or forty of those ideas that are all kind of under the umbrella of building that our habits, but I didn't understand how they all fit together. I didn't understand like what the framework was that how they integrated and I needed to pretty much right the whole book to get my thoughts in order figure out like how these work together on a blog articles can be like a spider web. You can have like one article that connects to three or four other ideas, but in a book, it needs to be more of a number line. Chapter one to chapter three, chapter four, like it needs to to build. And so I had to write the whole thing to figure out where to pieces fit. I love that. I love that because you know, in wire to create a creativity is is an emergent property. And Picasso said he hardly ever knew he was going until he got there. It sounds like your processes similar, but it doesn't mean that you operate blind. That's a false dichotomies. All right. Doesn't mean just as it's emerging that you're just like, stabbing in the dark trial and error, you're still building these habits that are going to ultimately increase the likelihood that something good's going to merge. You know, I'll be interested to get your thoughts on this, but I think for me similar to that Picasso quote, you just shared writing like thinking a lot of time. I don't really know what I think about something until I have written about it because they to kind of iterating on the thought multiple times as I go through it. And I find that if I'm asked about something that I haven't written about, what I'm really doing in the moment is I'm just talking my emotions. I'm talking my feelings like you asked me a question. I haven't heard about it before. So my response is just kind of based on like whatever might gut intuition is feeling as in the moment, and I'm talking those feelings out loud in my response. But when I write, I get to do that. I get to talk, you're my feelings. I read what I write out loud sensibly. Yeah, but I get to revise it again and again, and so eventually get to after revising article, twenty five times is very different than what that first draft would be when it comes out of my mouth in conversation. I don't know. It's kind of an interesting thing. It's like you asked me about something. I tell you what I think, but might not actually be what I think is just kind of my first initial response. Yeah, I've, I've often thought of the writing process as a beautiful thing for me personally because it allows you to kind of coal and and reject all the things that if they were put in public would hurt your reputation as a writer. And I wish like the dating process, the marriage process, the job selection process wish so much of life was like that. You know, I think like if some people read like some of those early drafts, they would not think I'm as good of a writer as they think right now who's the real me the real me. You know, the finished polished, you know, wow, he's such a good writer, you know, or as the room, the real me and my faking everyone. Rumi was like that I draft. I like the idea that like the mind is a suggestion engine in. So in my mind is suggesting a lot of turnips for the answer to any given question and writing allows me to kinda like all of those alternatives on one page and then gradually cold the ones that don't make sense in cut those out and refine the ones that do make more sense. And yeah, when you only get one chance of the first date or one chance of job interview, you kind of give whatever your first responses but may not be you're the best suggestion that your mind go with. That's right. So you were on this podcast before you're one of our rare return offenders. Thank you so much. I'm very honored to to earned the right to comeback. Your work is excellent. And I wondering how you personally have felt like you learned or grown since a child when you fell fourteen to adult it up every fourteen two thousand sixteen jotted. Where were you at that place in? You know, how do you think you personally have grown? Well, so you caught me right after. Red signed a book deal at that point. So I signed it relate to dozen fifteen. So adminis- you months. So I was in the process of writing the book. I really had no idea what is biting off in what was to come. But as far as how I've changed, I think my thoughts on habits have become much more refined when we can talk about that as go through the conversation. But in a more broad sense recently, I've come to realize or have started to appreciate more the, I guess, I'll say like the balanced between things. So the side DEA, that two opposing answers can often both be correct, but it just depends on the circumstances were to opposing strategies can often both be affective, but it depends on when you need them. So take just as a very simple example, you could live your life in like a low level state of movement walking to from work sleeping, whatever. Or you could do like a more extreme strategy, reliving on both ends of the spectrum like you sprint for thirty minutes a day need you like intense sprint were. Out and then you like really rest and recover for ten hours. You sleep a lot that night and often that like oscillating strategy can actually lead to better outcomes or better results like lead to more muscle growth in strength in the sprinting sleeping case than just performing like a mid range level of movement throughout the whole day. I wonder if that's also true a lot of ideas of true from like a mindset standpoint, that many seemingly opposing extremes or opposing theories, there's truth in all of them. And just the answer is not to always sprint or to always sleep the answers to like what strategy or would extreme do you need at this particular time? And so I'm coming to appreciate that a little bit more. One of the areas where I've thought about this related to habits related to ideas is, you know, there's this never ending nature versus nurture debate and like you have on one end, the deliver practice believers who say like we can fashion ourselves almost anything. And then on the other end, you have. Assists and scientists who say like, you know, the genetic code is definitely not a blank. Slate were very limited, and I think both of those are simultaneously true, which sounds like crazy when I think about it, but it is both true that we can fashion ourselves mold ourselves, much more than people would expect that maybe your ceiling in any given area is higher than you would believe. And it's also true that our genes nudge us in ways and shape us in ways, said abound ry for us in certain areas that we often under appreciate. And so I don't know. I've kind of been wrestling with these ideas like opposing answers or simultaneously true opposites. They love that. You said a lot of really interesting things there. You know, our last very latest podcast episode with Robert Pullman. Mentioned the book actually. I know I was gonna say, you mentioned him in your book and wanna relax chapters. So that was cool to see that. Yeah, and we try to kind of wrestle with some of those issues of that tight interplay between nature nurture he, he's a strong believer that the genes make us creed or environments we create nudge us to create our environments, you know, and it seems like a big thing of your book is choosing the environment that will help you excel like why hard for yourself? Like Pullman talks about not going against the grain of nature. Yeah. I mean, this is a talk about a little later in the book. I haven't really seen sure. Robert has Brady by the is in this, but haven't really seen many people talk about the influence of jeans on habits or personality on habits. And I think they're like some interesting threads follow there, but it's also it feels like we're kind of still in the infancy from scientific standpoint on what the answers are. But the example that I give in the book is that you have Michael Phelps, you know, one of the most. Swimmers of all time six foot four. And you have another Olympian that I mentioned who competed at the same Olympic Games in Athens. Hickama groups who is a very famous runner and Gruz held at one point the world record, I think in the thousand meter of the five thousand meter and the mile races. So he's a fantastic athlete zone, right. And what's interesting is that they're seven inches different in height. Phelps a six, four grooves five nine a belief and they have the same link insead on their pants. So the runner is like all legs Noto and Phelps as this very long back which is great for pulling through the water. And so the question I had was what if they switch sports, they're both like literally world class athletes, and you know if Michael Phelps was a runner instead of swimmer, could he make the Olympics? And the answer's almost certainly know at peak fitness, Phelps, one hundred ninety four pounds and grew and the other Olympic runners competed around one hundred thirty hundred thirty, five pounds. So folks would have been sixty. Pounds overweight. By the time it got to the starting line in distance running every pound is like a curse. And so the point here is that this is kind of larger way of looking at genes in general, which is that your genes are the usefulness of the utility of your genes is often determined by the environment that you're in. So if you're seven feet tall, that's an incredibly useful Seta jeans on basketball court, but it's very limiting if you're trying to gymnast or do a routine on the balancing. And this is true, not just for physical characteristics which are clear in obvious to talk about, but also for psychological ones. I don't know that we have the same depth of knowledge about psychological traits in their links to the code yet. I think we're moving in that direction, but it is interesting to think about. Can you set up an environment for yourself or put yourself in situations where you're like a seven footer on a basketball court where you're in environment that favours you and make it easier for self to build better habits in that way, and you probably know the. Psychology loser better than I do, but I am interested in like how certain percentage rates like the big five. About the onto the genetic code and then like what that might tell us about how to strategize for your habits. You know, like if your loan conscientiousness and you're not likely to be someone who's orderly organized in maybe like not the type of person who would remember to do something. Maybe your strategy could benefit from a more optimism environment, like a physical environment that has more cues in it to prompt. You remind you to perform a habit rather than just leaving it up to being orderly. I don't know. I'm not sure like how that would shape things, but I think that there's probably like a thread to pull on their where personality can be informative for strategy. And that's the alternate punchline about chapters that genes do not eliminate the need for hard work to show you what to work hard on. They do not eliminate the need for strategy. Don't just say, oh, there's biological determinism. No need to worry about this. Like it's all fixed anyway. They tell you based on your characteristics, where should your strategy focused? I like that I think is interesting. Catch twenty two with personality. In the sense that personality influence what strategies your motive to pursue in the first place. Like one facet of consciousness is chievements drive. Some people call grits, and people call industriousness and industriousness is a separate facet than orderliness. So you might actually score really low in a chief -ment oriented drive and low in orderliness and the oil ruinous just won't bother you like your very well orderliness and your high. These come apart as well. You're very high achievement like so seems like the discrepancy between like who you wanna be in who you are is really important factor here versus you knows it. 'cause some people just won't bother them. They're not setting habits that make them more orderly. Like some people are actually totally fine with not always having public recognized successes or even, you know, reaching long-term goals, there's happy like just have good friends and family. You know society think about? Well, I think what's interesting there, twos in this. This is true for any type of advice which is advices pretty useless. If you don't have a willingness to self experiment, you know, like a there are a lot of great ideas out there. But if people expect those ideas to map perfectly onto their own life than things kind of fall apart a little bit, you need to be willing to like massage the ideas or toy with them enough to figure out how do I fit this into my own circumstances. And so in that sense, a deeper understanding of your personality or your genetic traits, your inclinations predispositions might allow you to more accurately determine what advice is useful for you. You know someone who doesn't need to worry about things being orderly. It's like, well, you know, maybe that area of this advice is just not relevant to me. I can move onto the next section because something else is going to be more useful for my personality situation. So I think that understanding ourselves more deeply and they're all kinds of interesting things I think are going to come in the coming decades about DNA genetics, how that links to our psychology in mindset, understanding those things better will probably. Allow us to have better strategies for building habits as well. Yeah, I love that Lincoln to that. You're making there and it's good to start talking about that in the public conversation. Hey, everyone just wanted to take this moment to thank you all for your support of the podcast. Over the years. It's been a real privilege to do this podcast y'all for the past four years, if you'd like to further support the podcast, I wanted to a few things you can do to help make this podcast better experience for you. All I, I really appreciate it. If you subscribe to the psychology podcast on itunes, this would help make the show more prominent on. I tunes increase our listenership. I believe you can subscribe both in your iphone on your computer. Second. It'd be great if you could give the show reading and review tunes. I definitely read all the reviews and they are helpful to others who are thinking about giving the show. Listen, 'nother thing you can do which is new is to become a patron of the show by going to WWW dot PAT r. e. o. n. dot com forward slash psych podcast. That's WWW dot p. t. r. e. o. n. dot com. Forward slash podcast, their various op. That you can select, which include the ability to ask your own questions to a guest on the show and to have a thirty minute Skype session with me. Thanks again for your incredible support of the show. Over the years. I do the show for you all because I truly love sharing mine Fouzy Izam and love of the mind, brain creativity, and it really appreciate you joining me on this journey. Okay. Now back to the show, I want to circle back because like almost every sentence you make leaves meal and like ten directions to follow up on. So it's like particularly difficult guests in a good way, but you said a bunch of things that were very rich earlier, and I want to circle back to this idea of posing things that seem to be at odds with each other in like you're either this person or that person, and it's like, no, I'm a person that has both that encounters both sort of things. I think about this a lot. Let's zoom in on that point you made because Abraham as one of my favorites, psychologists refers to one of the key elements of self actualization as dichotomy transcendence. So I linked that to what you were saying. Like, you know about how like really highly developed individuals who are very wise, have this ability to not see things that seem paradoxical as paradoxical seeing them's only like apparent pirate axes. Like, you know, dichotomies we have inside like male, female, or work in play, or also things he actually viewed that as a very high level of actualization life. If you can do that, I like that phrase, dichotomy transcendence, you know, it's like you're stepping outside of this black and white conversation in seeing the partial truths that are available in in all the options. Yeah, I'm really exciting that point. I was excellent. You don't talk about too much in your book though. This new, a new theory, your next book or something? Well, I came to realize some of it as I was writing the book. You know? So I just mentioned this, like the difference between. Okay. So you know, there's this classic debate a lot of psychology research about like social psychologists, the environment shapes your behavior, personality psychologists, personality shapes you behavior and so on. And of course they're elements of both. But woods. Interesting to me is like how far either option can take you, you know, like how far altering the physical environment, like what you see when you walk into your room. So like let's say, you know, just take a classic example like watching television as a habit will if you walk into pretty much any living room where to all the couches and chairs face, they all face the TV. So it's like, what does that room designed to get you do? And we don't think about it that way, bright, but they're variety things you could do there. You could take a chair turned away from the TV. You could put the television inside a wall unit. So it's behind doors or cabinets that you're less likely to see the. You can take the remote and put it in a drawer. You could also increase the friction associated with tasks. You could like take batteries out of the remote control. And then that adds like an extra five or ten seconds. Do I really wanna watch TV or is this just something mindless? Amena do could chug out of the window? Yeah, right. You could take the Utica TV unplug it and then only plug it back in. If you can say the name of the show that you wanna watch. The aren't just allowed to like mindlessly turn on Netflix and find something. If you really wanna be extreme, you could take the TV off the wall, but in the closet only set it up when you wanted to watch something bad enough to send up again. But the point here is that many of our habits, our response to what is obvious or friction lists in our environment. I mean, there's no better example than cell phones are smartphones around us all the time, and I find last year. So I've started to keep my phone and another room until lunch each day. Keep it out of my office. So just gives me like three or four hours, right? Can stay focused and not be distracted, but was funny about that to me is that if my phone is next to me, it's on desk and have the room, unlike everybody else, I'll check it like every three minutes or five minutes or whatever. But if it's a home office. So if it's out of there, it's just up the stairs. It's like forty, five seconds. Way, but even though it's only forty five seconds away, I never go get it. And so my question is like, do I really want it or not? Like I'm checking every three minutes of his next me, but if it's not in the room, I never wanna work forty five seconds to go get it. And I think that there are a lot of technologies created a lot of habits like that where they're so friction, listen, convenient that we find ourselves falling into them whenever we have a down moment or whenever we are board for a fraction of a second, but we don't want them in some deeper cents. We don't even want them enough to climb up the stairs for forty five seconds, go to a different room. And so when you remove those things and you make them less convenient or less obvious, you often find that you slide back into the work that may as deeper more meaningful to you. It's not that I didn't want to write an article today is just because my phone was three feet away from me. I was always checking. And so once I took it out, it's like kind of removing the mental candy from your environment in becomes easy to like eat healthy stuff when you're not surrounded by that. So I think that environment design can play a crucial role in shaping. Yeah, I really like that. And you triggered me the idea inverting your fourth wall? I wanted to actually go through. Maybe we should. I go through the four walls, how will like after that? So we'll get everyone excited one. Listen. Now they're dining with the inversion is of the fourth wall. Let's go to one. So the first of all of behavior change and these are your laws by. I mean the you propose these laws, right? So these out in the book? Yeah, I break a habit into four stages and then they come up with what I call the four laws behavior change. There's one free stage in so you can think about them as like a set of tools for making it easier to good habits. So the the first law is to make it obviously wanna make the queues of your good habits. Obvious the second laws to make it attractive more attractive ahead. It appears to us more. We perceive it to be valuable, more likely to to all through on it in performance. The second or the third law is to make it easy. So you wanna make your habits, convenient or friction lists as possible. And then the fourth laws to make it satisfy. Buying with a habit is satisfying, feels rewarding enjoyable. You have reason to repeated in the future. And as you just mentioned, you can actually invert each of these four laws. If you wanna break bad habit. So make it obvious, make it attractive, make it easy, mega satisfying, building a good habit to break a bad habit than you make it invisible. Make unattractive make difficult unsatisfying. And so those four loss behavior change kinda give us a set of tools for adjusting and improving our habits. Yeah. I mean, that's sizes, an awful lot of research, the four walls, but like we're talking hundreds and hundreds of research studies on self control that back that up from all the self Trovatore seen definitely talks about like ways of making it hard for you to get to. The thing will actually, I mean, they're probably they're thousands of studies behind those four laws. You know, they're really what I wanted to come up with a framework that describes how human behavior works, and I'm not really. I think it would be a little reckless to claim that those four stages in those laws describe all of human behavior. But from abroad standpoint, they're pretty close. You know, pretty much every behavior you take in some kind of raw data. There's some type of q. or some preceding event, and then you interpret that Dayton, someway. And that's what the craving stages about about how you interpret the cues that you come across the second stage. And then there's a response behavior perform, and then there's some kind of outcome result which we could call the reward of its benefits or the consequence of its negative. And when I'm really describing the process of learning, you know, you see something you make a prediction about how to respond. You take an action in the new update your prediction for the next time based on the outcome. And there's a lot of finer details of which these things I'm gonna point some stuff out. I think it was protocol three layers of behavioral change, outcome processes identity. Could you explain those three? Now, let's zoom in on a day. Many favorite zooming in. Let's zoom in on density. All right. Yeah. So the way that I think about this is they're kind of multiple levels of behavior change or multiple levels of cheating something and. And typically when we go about trying to change our behavior, we start with what I call an outcome based approach. So we think about the result that we want. So I wanna double my income where I want to lose sixty pounds in the next six months, or I want to meditate for twenty minutes a day or something like that. And so we think about the outcome that we want, then we back into a plan for doing that. So it's like, all right, if I wanna lose sixty pounds, then my plan is I'm gonna follow this diet. I'm going to the gym three days a week, and that's your process. So you have outcomes in process these car, like peeling back the layers of an onion, so outcomes on the outside process, the next layer in. But then I think there's a deeper layer of behavior change, which I would call identity change. And this is like the set of beliefs or how you define your self image. That's underlying the process, the actions you're taking and the outcomes that you're trying to achieve now. Typically when people go about changing, I don't know that most people really think about identity most of the time. It's like, all right outcome. I wanna be skinny and process. If I felt. Diet, all be skinny. And that's kinda like the end of the thought. And the identity is sort of like implicitly just follows. You think that if I get skinny, then I'll be the person I wanna be or something. But I think it's actually better to invert this process. So it's not that any fast in. I'm the proudly. Was that I thought the inversion was if I'm fat, then I'll become the personnel. Exactly. It's not that any of the stages are bad. It's just that if you start with the outcome, I think you're focusing in the wrong direction. But if instead we start with the identity, one way to do this is to kind of reverse engineer the process. You can ask yourself, well, who's the type of person that could lose weight, we'll maybe it's the type of person doesn't miss workouts. And so then you focus on building the identity of being the type of person who doesn't. It's workouts and then that changes are shifts a little bit the process that you're gonna follow. 'cause now it's more about, okay, I need to go to the gym and it's less about like I need to do this particular type of workout or this particular type of results are outcome. It's more about like, how do I reinforce that identity? And this is one reason why think small habits can be so useful? Is that even if they don't get the outcome that you want, they can so reinforce the identity, which ends up leading to good outcome in the long run. So something like doing five push ups, a lotta people be like, you know, what's the difference? Doing five push ups like it's not gonna get in shape anyway, but. The key is if you're really busy, if your kids are sick or traveling, it's like I've been on the airplane last six hours. I was exhausted in got to the hotel and all I can do with five push-ups for a collapse on the bed. But I still in the type of person who doesn't miss workouts. So even though it's a small habit, it can cast a vote for that identity. And this I think is a good way to think about how identities are formed and how they can change is that every action you take is like a vote for the type of person that you want to become. So it's kinda like as you perform a habit, you're building up evidence of being type of person. In a sense, your habits are how you embody a particular identity notes. Like every day that you make your bed, you embody the identity of someone who's clean and organized. Every time you go to the gym, embody the identity of someone who is fit. Every time you sit down and write one sentence, you embody the identity of someone who is a writer. And so these small actions like reading one page writing, one-sentence doing five push ups, they. Seems little because they insignificant because we don't think they can get the result that we want, but they can reinforce the identity of who you wanna become. I think that that actually identity changes, true behavior change because once you identify that kind of person, you really no longer even looking to achieve some Kombi, hey, changes acting in alignment with the type of person that you already think that you are now. It's like it's one thing to say. I want this at something very different to say, I am this, and I think that ultimately, that's what we're trying to get to is to adopt the identity in let the result of all naturally. I really, really like that. I mean for the longest time identity, it was like, you know, an introvert and I don't wanna be as introverted. Sometimes you know, like I would like to break out of my shell sometimes. And so you know, I bet a lot of listeners listening to break out of their shell in their own respective things Li. We all have something like to add Rachelle, and you're seeing a really good for step is to yet Reconceptualise yourselves, as you know? Well, if I were this raging extrovert, I would be the type of person who would not say no to that request or my goals to be a raging extrovert. But you know, just got time that covers socially more will. I think, actually that Nino new don't wanna be a raging Shubert as the example. I think that's a good way to think about this. You're not looking like rip your identity in half or become a new person. I don't think I want to be offensive still. Right, right. You're looking to upgrade and expand your identity a little. Bit. It's I compared to like retouching painting, you know, you're just looking like make some adjustments and one way to make the adjustments is to implement some these small one percent changes. And I think it's also important to note that this is a little different than what you know. Oftentimes you'll hear people say, things like fake until you make it, but I'm talking about is a little bit different here because by sticking to a small habit by doing five push-ups or writing one sentence or whatever new again, you're casting those votes for that kind of identity. You have evidence of that being that type of person fig until you make it as asking you to believe something without evidence, and there's a word for beliefs about evidence called delusion. You know, at some point, if you try to keep believing something and you don't have any reason to believe it than the brain doesn't like that. It falls flat, but with small habits, you have evidence of being that type of person proof to route the identity in. I think that's what's so powerful about them is that they seem like the small actions, but they end up being evidence of the type of person that you're becoming. And this is maybe the deeper. A real reason that habits matter that I wrote this whole book on it. I think it's important. I mean, yes, habits can get you external results that can help you lose weight or earn more money or be more productive, or reduce stress or whatever. But they also are the path through which we forge our self image which kinda reinforce this who, what type of person we are developed self confidence. And so for that reason, I think they serve in even deeper and more important role in our lives that. Yeah, and I also really like their folks on systems. Can you talk about why we should stop setting goals and focus on systems instead? Because that's not a language that many people talk about. Everyone talks about goal setting for instance. Right, right. Sure. So, I mean, first of all, this comes from someone. I was very oriented for longtime, right? I was goals for the grades. I wanted to get school for how much way to lift in the gym for you know what? I want my business to grow and all that type of stuff. So I did this for a long time in at some point. I realized that some of these. Goals I set I achieved, but many of them I did not. And so clearly like the action of setting a goal was not the thing that was, you know, determining whether or not I was achieving these things, and I came across this language from Scott Adams, the cartoonist Dilbert I, he's like the systems or skulls thinking as well, and he's a little more anti goals than I am, but I think goals are useful, but it's important to be clear about what they are useful for their useful for clarity and setting sense direction, knowing where you wanna focus your attention, but almost immediately after you've done that after you've gained some clarity, it's best to put the goal on the shelf and focus on systems. And this is not the typical way that we think about this. I think that this is because part of it is because we live in a very results oriented society. So the news, something's only newsworthy, it's only story when we're talking about the outcome, the result, the goal, you know, you're never gonna see news story. That's like men aids chicken salad for lunch today. It's. A new story like six months or year later when it's like man loses one hundred pounds, it's only after the outcome that it becomes something that people talk about. And social media has just exacerbated this magnified even more because now all day long were inundated with people's results with people's outcomes. I think because we see the outcome so much. We overvalue the results. Think the goal, the dishes outcome is what matters when really it should be about the process of the system that precedes the outcome. And so this hinted at some of the things I write about the book about why goals are less useful, maybe or deserve less of our tension that we give them, which is that one problem is achieving goal only changes your life for the moment, right? Like we think that what we need is this result, but you know, if you get really motivated and you won't have cleanroom, you've got all this clutter in your garage or in your bedroom or something and see spent a couple of hours cleaning a room. You'll have a clean room for now. You know, after you spend a couple of hours doing. But if you don't change the sloppier messy habits that led to dirty room in the first place, you turn around three weeks from our month from now. You've got a thirty room again, and so we think the results need to change, but the results are not the thing that needs to shift. We need to change the habits behind the results for the system that led to the results. Have you changed the system? The outcomes are just a natural product. It's like we spend all our time treating symptoms about treating the actual cause. And so I think that a focus on systems helps resolve some of that. Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was an excellent point. I'm going to quote you on something ruling to this that I wanna discuss when you finally breakthrough the potato latent potential that's capitalized, totally consensual people will call it an overnight success. The outside road only sees the most dramatic event rather than all that preceded it. But you know that it's the work you did one go when it seemed that you weren't making progress that makes the jump possible today possible. You also talk about the different positive and negative compounding. Have you thought about in the reverse way? We make judgements about people, you know, as well. They're great because they did that. But we also make a lot of very judgmental about each other's well. So in the book I talk about how habits can come home for you or against you. And I think this is one key reason to understand habits. They're kinda like this double edged sword. You know, they can either cut you down or they can do up. And if you understand the details about them than you can design them to your liking rather than to your hindrance and maybe avoid dangerous half of the blade that double edged sword. And I think that that's crucial for understanding how they work because on any given day, I mean, I like to so that chapter, you just quoted from earlier in their say, habits of the compound interest self self-improvement. And the reason I like that phrase is that the same, that money multiplies through compound interest, the effects of your habits, multiply as you repeat them over time, but that can be true of positively or negatively. Right. So on any given day, it's really easy to overlook the. Difference between choice. It's like slightly better slightly worse, you know, I mean, what is really the difference between eating a burger and fries for lunch or eating a salad, your body looks basically the same in the mirror that night. The scale hasn't really changed. What's the difference between studying Chinese for an hour tonight or not sitting all you still haven't learned the language either way. And so it's very easy for us to dismiss those daily choices, though small habits, but it's only two, five or ten years later that those choices of compounded and we end up in a very different spot. We realized how much value there is in choice. That's one percent better and how much of cost there is in choice. That's one percent worse so that that's why like to use compounding as an example for habits, it's not that it maps perfectly onto that hockey stick curve, but more accurately describes what it's like to build a habit and what it feels like on daily basis, which is doesn't really feel like much. It kind of feels like the beginning of that compound. Kirby just kinda flat. There's nothing to show for it, and it's only later when. You get down toward the hockey stick portion of the curve. You're like, whoa, I'm gonna really different place a decade later than it feels like on a daily basis. Yeah, a love that, and I loved the idea contrasting positive versus negative compounding as really cool. Maybe we should step back moment and actually explain what you're forced modeled habits is. Sure. Yeah. So I'll give you an example as I walk through it so require the four stages are q.. What I call craving as the second sage response reward. As an example, say you walk into a room and it's dark. So in this case, the visual too dark room, the craving is how you interpret the queue or the prediction that your brain makes about what to do next. So often we talk about craving as like I crave doughnut or a crater cigarette or something like that. But I kinda mean this more in a broader sense like what you desire to do based on the situation. So cue the room is dark craving a wanna, be able to see I wanna reduce the uncertainty of being darkroom response is the third stage where you flip on the light switch to this is the routine, the action, the behavior that you take and then reward the room is lit. Mabel see now and those four stages. In that example, you know, that happens in what thirty milliseconds of it's happening so fast. The don't even think about it. And this is a good way to think about how this process works in the brain. Your brain is going through this endlessly. You're endlessly taking information raw data from the environment, the temperature, the pixels in your visual field, what you're hearing, all of this data on those are the cues that you're of the external environment, the your absorbing, and then you're making predictions about which of those cues are important and how you should respond in what your next action should be based on your current state and past experience in what you've learned, then you take an action and then finally, you analyze the outcome is and then try to update your prediction for the next time and your brains going through these cycles endlessly even right now as you're listening to this and if you do it enough, then pretty soon you can proceed through all four stages without even thinking about it's more or less non conscious, like flipping a light switch dark room. You don't actually think through dark like to be able to see like your slipping, the switch as soon as you enter the door and that is kinda process for me habit. You've you've repeated enough that you can do it more or less without thinking a second way that like to break down these four stages though, I think. It's instructive for understanding what the role of habit is daily life is that habits are the solutions that your brain automates to repeated problems that you face throughout life. So the more that you face the same problem, the more your brain starts to develop fluency in speed accuracy with coming up with a solution for it. So like in the morning, you put your shoes on, and in a sense, having untied shoe is a problem that your brain has to solve. So q. UC cheer shoe's untied, craving won't have tied shoe response. I Tida the shoelace and then reward the she was now secure in my foot. And in that sense, habits are just solutions. They don't have to be. This is one of the key things to realize your brain is just looking for an effective solution in the moment. It doesn't mean that the original solution that you came up with the original habit that you Bill is necessarily the optimal habit. Right? So like if you come home from work and. Feel stressing exhausted. So q. he walk in the door craving, you're feeling exhausted. You wanna feel refreshed or you know, improve in some way, improve your current state response. While other varieties deal with that. You know, one person might play video games for an hour and they learned that's one way to reduce exhaustion and stress. Another person might smoke a cigarette for ten minutes. Third person might go for run for twenty minutes, and all of those are solutions to the recurring problem of coming home from a long day at work, but some of them are healthier more productive than others. And once he realized this that your habits are just trying to just your brains best attempt to come up with a quick and easy solution to the problems face, then you can start to figure out like, all right, what are better habits might serve me more in the long run, but also resolve those challenges or problems that I face on a repeated daily basis. If I could make that happen in the real world, like I would definitely be able to make some strides in my habits because the stuff is as you talk about a lot. Of these habits are and as the water researchers at the subconscious level, they're programmed as if then statements, right? Like, so we need these implementation intentions in order to, but we can reprogram this stuff, right? There's hope, yes, there's hope and it's habits or. Yeah, if then statements. Good way to think about it because habits are all about associations, right? They're all about like the solution that you associate with certain context with certain problem. And this is often one reason why it's easier to build a new habit in new environment because you're not trying to overpower your old associations. So like let's say, for example that you wanted to build the habit of reading more well, if you are like, aren't I'm gonna read more tonight, and so you go into your living room and sit down your couch, but the context of being your living room being on your couch might already be associated with watching Netflix for an hour each night. And so when you go in there, you're unconsciously subconsciously fighting against your behavioral biases in that environment or the stimuli of being there in like wanting. To reach the remote and turn on Netflix. So it might be easier actually to build a reading habits. Say there's like a coffee shop near your office where you never go in there. And so it's a new shop. And now this place becomes the context, the area where you finish work, you ought to the coffee shop. You turn your phone often get in the door and you pull out a book, read for thirty minutes, and so now there's this, it becomes the reading coffee shop, right? It's like, that's the thing that context gets tied to. And even if you can't do it with like an entirely new environment, you can often do it with a space in your current environment. So maybe you get like a new chair and you put it in the corner of your apartment. And that's the reading chair in the only thing you've ever do in that chairs read. And the point here is your trying to associate the context with a new habit and it's better when you can do it in a place that you don't already have associations with. You don't already have other things you have to fight through to build a new one. I will sell them a little time. We have remaining Carolina. We talk. Do some advanced tactics harsher sounds like an operative like danced like mercenary tactics. Okay. Hello, how we go from being merely good to being truly great. I mean, obviously that book from degrade is a bestseller. You know, a lot of people are very interested in that lake. Can we go that extra mile frontier. We already talked about jeans in town and we already talked about importance of finding then virement that get the best out of your jeans. Key talked a little about the Goldilocks ral. Yeah, so the Goldilocks rule is essentially a way of thinking about how to stick with the habit in the long run, a maintain your motivation to perform habit in the long run. Any idea. There's some interesting research that has shown this that humans experience peak levels of motivation when they work on challenge of just manageable difficulty. So not too hard, not to easy just right. That's like the Goldilocks roar Goldilocks zone of coined that phrase Goldilocks. Yeah, I did. I'm kinda like happy about that. I didn't win the phrase. Just manageable difficulty that was from the research on, but Goldilocks roles, like my way of thinking about how to keep yourself that that edge of challenge. So the idea here is that you want to stay on the perimeter of your abilities, and so you know, imagine that you're playing tennis match. If you play against someone who's a professional, like Roger Federer, Serena Williams is gonna get boring pretty quickly because you're gonna lose every point. But if you play against someone who is like, if you play against a little child playing, it's five year old that's going to be boring because you're gonna win every point. What's up that might be a little fun. Oh, yeah. We'll be really cute for a minute, right? China play serious matter if you playing in someone who's your equal, you know who's like they're pretty good. You're pretty good. They went a few points you in a few points of chance to win. But only if you really try that's incredibly motivating forces you to lock in and perhaps the best example this in modern life is video games, video games of designed to keep you right on that razor's edge of your ability. So if you're struggling with a level, they'll give you more power ups or more coins, or maybe drop a few more weapons your way as you really vanishing knocking another park than all of a sudden they'll throw more challenges for you. But the idea is that they wanna keep you on that edge while you always feel like you're making progress, but you're also always challenged enough to stay fully engaged. And so that's kind of where you wanna stay. Now, this is similar to being in a state of flow similar to being like fully engaged in the moment and re some research has shown that states of flow are often. Achieved on your about four to five percent beyond your current ability. So you're being stretched just a little now in daily life. How do you know what that is? Right? Like what is what is writing four percent beyond your current ability or what is meditating? Five percent harder than you usually do? It's kinda hard to quantify that, but I think that as a rule of thumb, Raza Curacic to keep in mind this idea that I'm looking to stretch, but only just a little bit like you really do still need to be winning a lot making progress, otherwise you don't have a reason to continue. Yeah. And would you say Steve Martin was a good example? Yeah. So I tell the story in the book of Steve Martin who he had been a comedian for many years before he broke out. I think he said, how do you describe think he's at eighteen years total? And it was like ten years struggling for years, refining and then for years in wild success and early on his career, his comedy segments were incredibly short. I mean when he was like a teenager and he was doing this in high school, it would be, you know, three minutes or five. Sits on stage and then gradually each year expanded just a little bit. So he like a seven minute routine. And then I think by the time he was eighteen he was don't like ten minute routine or fifteen minute routine. And each time he would just keep adding a little bit. So he keep the pieces that worked right. He knew the had some segments that could get laughs, but then it was like all of a sudden have to come up with two minutes of new material that I don't have before. So he's also really being challenged. So it's a great example what the Goldilocks will looks like daily life. There's just enough winning for him to be like that wasn't a total bomb Sony to show up next week, but just enough challenge for him to really be pushing hard like, man, I come up with some good jokes and end result was he kept getting better year in year out, and he turned around when he was in his twenties thirties, just had this incredible career. And of course they're variety of other things aligned with that. We talked already about jeans and so on, rye hits, maximize your ability in any field. You need to be able to stay motivated and stick with it. And the Goldilocks was one way to do that. All right. So I'm gonna end here with to my favorite quotes from your book. So one, each habit of walks. The next level performance endless cycle of that kind of makes me think of life is video game right when he gets locked the next level, you know, just by doing something a little bit better. And the other one is the secret to getting results that last is to never stop making improvements. It's remarkable. You can build if you just don't stop James clear. Congratulations on this tremendous accomplishment of this book, and I wish all the success. Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity. Thanks for the chat. Thanks for listening to the psychology podcast. I hope you enjoyed the episode if you'd like to react to some way to something you heard. I heard you to join in the discussion at us ecology podcast dot com. That's the psychology podcast dot com. also quiz at a rating and review the psychology podcast on itunes, thanks for being such a great supporter of podcast and tune in next time on the mind, brain behavior and creativity.

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The Mojo Radio Show Ep 282: Where do we find complete freedom? Jaimal Yogis

The Mojo Radio Show

1:22:15 hr | 2 weeks ago

The Mojo Radio Show Ep 282: Where do we find complete freedom? Jaimal Yogis

"The radio show we scare the planet to find the biggest names in health, creativity, wellness, strategy, brand, management, and more. This is going to be crazy. This Jason Overcome. Coach I. This is cal new author of deep workday. This is Brian that Richard Davies. Injury from the Canadian national. Women's Rugby Team Street in the state bludger. Radio. I'll be. We ask the big questions Miss Degree. Question actually landed right on March another really good question talking to you. Harvard's norm. Than that I had the I lake five hundred interviews. Nobody asked me about this Wow, sometimes, we talk about darts. Can I tell you Dana Gary Favorite Sport? He's dots. HOW ATHLETIC! I think it's interesting that at your favorite. Sport that I know a prerequisite. A cigarette. Come on, let's be honest. We take ourselves too seriously wrong half dozen. A. Welcome. To. Radio show. Everybody and welcome to this week's dishing of the merger radio show welcome aboard the big bread bus if you're new on the bus. And you have your ticket. What does this little program about? What can you expect well? It really is quite simple. We just find interesting people that we think. Have the merger working point of view. and. We just want to have a chat to find out what it is they do so we can apply to our own world or maybe someone. We know who's struggling at the moment. In order to get them Joe working this week. We are heading to freedom town, which is due north and we're heading up there with the salt water. He's going to be onboard the bus so one before we start your only price to get on board. The Big Red Bus east to leave us a review on I. Tunes throws a bone. Folks just the shows, no advertised, sadly no sponsors. It. Lets US know you're out there. It keeps the fuel in the tank and to be honest. We feed off that so if you can. Just one line destroys the bone, just going. They give us review a something. Let's say you're out. The that'd be good teams all aboard. The Bar Fridge is well stocked. I see rabbi puts. You've talked up on Tim's In fact, did you know? On US kit, isn't it I'm sorry I was going to say. There's a tea shop opening. But there is A. There is a keep cat store opening up based on the influence of the Japanese on live is kit cats. I don't know you you. Could you take the kitten will? Look I could walk away from team Tam but. I'm just thinking I can barely see through the moving boxes in here because voters sounds about to move premises I need a few cats. Because when you have a break, you need a Kit Kat apparently. ovallis remarkable facts. Well I took some cues from our guest this week. Our guests seems to enjoy basing their titles of these books around surfing so I figured the obvious question was for me, anyway was who surfed the biggest wave in history. And exactly how big was it now turns out. That record belongs to a guy called Garrett. McNamara Garrett Job Dean on get these one hundred foot wave back in two thousand eleven. That's thirty odd Mehta's or about a third of a football field in Robbo speak. Ever Humble Garrett, said it was really like any other wife I had no idea I was on what would become the world record? Wife remember thinking the entire time that I wish I was DEEPA, but after looking at the footage realized my jet Ski Partner had put me in the perfect spot. You can see. He's well record. Ride on Youtube. It's absolutely incredible. If you're a surfer, you will not believe it if you want to check it out, take a pick it out. FACEBOOK page and also get GB. Drop that in the show nights, butter a hundred foot. I'm not sure, I would be brave enough thankfully. Garrett's big fan of the show, so he could I might be good to have you on board. The the big red bus. I think he listened to Eddie would go episode. Any would go and now. I've got something remarkable impact of the virus. This I I saw stats in the. New York Times. and. I don't know that we are. We totally grasp the impact of this pandemic. Been Ninety. Six percent decrease in travelers, passing through the US airport security up that was that was between in March. April and this. Said Ninety six percent less travel imagine the impact that's having on hotels and security guys, starbucks, coffee teams news agencies claim caterers taxis That's. The but the flip side. Of thousand a suffering. Ease the Americans what six point one billion hours of Netflix in April alone. While I find it astonishing and the US box office revenues who are really suffering right now a macho pains we back a little grand couple of weeks with three hundred grand. That would normally be eleven million last year half the Americans. Employed before the virus are now working remotely and has been a thirty times. In zooms ten million in December thirty million people in April. That's what it is today. So when you dig into the stats and Lucky country here we think we're starting to get on top of things, but I'll tell you what this a long long wedding. Play up particularly for your business can't particularly if you're in America to you, but you know the thing that I find surprising about that. Ninety six percent through the airports, thing for me is actually would have gone not. Not Lower than that actually would have gone higher I wish we would've thought in ninety nine ninety eight percent with the whole country, being in lockdown and stuff I find ninety-six percent remarkable interested, in terms of maybe more than I would have thought now there is still some flights going, so there are still the right warriors Herat. They doing stuff so the not the airport's closed. But it's pretty restricted we'd we'd be. We'd going. It'd BE LINEUPS VIA STARBUCKS S. Radio show. Al Guest this week is Jamal Yoga's who is known as the Salt Boorda Buddha and that's how I I came across. It was a cool name. This is a guy who had a young age found himself in trouble. He ran away to Hawaii to follow his Lifelong Dream of surfing. He ended up in a Buddhist monastery. He then seven of the best beaches in the world, and then he had a dream to be a writer and. What's curious about your Mollahs in doing so? He let more about himself that he did. Just atop a here was writing about and. That all became his first book. Which is the best selling book is? kind of a memoir called the salt water. The Salt Water Buddha. which has been adapted into a beautiful film and I'll put that in the show nuts for everybody to go to. You can find youtube easy enough. He was a guest on episode, one, forty, five and his Rodney. He's been very successful mace writings Zepeda. DidN'T SPF magazine Washington Post. He's done stuff with Oprah and Jamal's a guy who's probably seeking searching for peace. In an out of control distracted. Overly busy world and he takes lessons from. His time in the monastries like he's lessons from Zen, in applies them to our busy, corporate and personal lives. To help us, I guess better handle all the chaos. That normally surrounds us. Jamal's about to launch his first children's book. which actually goes out this week? It's called. Mop Rides the waves of life. It's small. It's Kinda cool issues to gripe thing to sit with a kid and read lovely lessons in that and he's agreed to bring his set board to the studio to take through that book and lots more Jamal Welcome back by thank you. We kind of sucked too bad if you're gonNA, come back on time and time. Is Being Generous. I loved loved being on the last time, so just looking for an excuse to get back on will. Pretty good one! Yeah, you know what's interesting. There was a time times for your life. We describe yourself as a but Mian. Dan We know you was an author. We know you as a Buddhist. You were a monk for period. We know you're a surfer and then going back through your books, we now you've been a runaway. Has You. Sit there today. Had you see your identity? You know It feels like different dimensions being a dad I, mean you just you sort of? I think the first. Three kids Four, six eight. And the first couple of years. Like. Everything I knew about identity was dying, I was dying. And it was this weird experience of. The. New kind of joy in love. Being with your kid and I. Genuinely feel that I've felt this simultaneously liked I I was. Digging my own grave every day I had no identity annum. Sort of slowly. In a child. Parenting just profound in in a spiritual sense because you really, your life does become about tyrod -tising other people ahead of yourself, no matter what. I think no matter what kind of. Regiment I was putting myself in to try to do that Meditational Yoga or being on. Reading books about. Getting you know lessening the ego at an feeling more compassion for all business. No! Really I think I was able to live a selfish life. Do ever want with my tunnel and then all of a sudden. You know you don't have that choice and you have to really look at. What does it mean? To. Really put these guys as the priority and Is a bumpy road, but I feel like now that I'm here. You know an our oldest is eight. Is More like surrender. Slow to it where it's about big president with them and. And trying to balance that with you know getting some work done. But our lives are. Really chaotic and so every day. It's about getting that mindset of like this is going to be a challenge to get everything done and. While so I can either look at it as like. This sucks or visit a gray right. Expand Comfort zone yet again to that in this eighteen year marathon so So that's a long winded way of saying I don't even know what my identity is. I just tried it. And I think that. Is a daily question. I just trying to. Keep my head above water. And still do the things I love it. Share them with them. It's funny, though, isn't it? Because three your Jenny always Y- you went. Will I guess in reflection of your journey? You've always been apple two liable that part of your identity. From Your Education Growing up. Running Away Zoe's been this tag. You've been able to put onto it. And then today to say you still kind of trying to work that out with when you look at those times, and you are a guy who thinks a lot of stuff, and you ponder, and you meditate on things. What have you learnt? What have you learned about identity from that period of knowing and being able to liable in retrospect? Today not. Really being sure Dad's an absolutely critical part of that, and then the other stuff you do. What have you learned about identity in your journey on reflection, you know when you take when you get into Buddhism deeply in your in the monastery. You're really. Daily looking into that. How how does the identity form every day? And how is it form in a single sought, and you have the time meditating to really watch the settled nuances of that? And and yet you're. You've also on this new identity as like a monk who is separate from those crazy people out there who are like not taking the time to reflect and get. So you, so you kind of have this chip on your shoulder to and yet you're wear of that. You have this Meta analysis of light. I'm aware that I have ego about this that I've on one of the wise once. He's got Nas of the wheel of some time. And you're criticizing yourself so that in analyzing it but. There's no question that the whole model of like religion and shaving her head, wearing a robe of being part of this community. It gives you this new identity that. and. The catch with Buddhism is that it's an identity that is. EXPLICITLY FOR QUESTIONING IDENTITY End So. It's like you. You're using this raft to cross the shore of suffering, which is too much attachment. To Ego. And once as the Buddhist said once you get to that shore, it would be silly to carry the raft around on your head. You have to put it down. and. You know when I left the monastery. I definitely was searching for what? What is my new identity? And Surf. Bum became the thing that I wanted to do, and it's like once. You pick up that surfboard that becomes your identity. And I merged that into being a writer and. To writes about erode about my our journey and. I mean the truth is. At every one of those stages. It's felt just like being in the monastery where it's like. I feel. All detachment when one of my books comes out to doing well, and that creates all kinds of struggles inside myself I. WanNa be loved that I want to be accepted with each one and yet. With. I'm also observing that struggle. And how that brings up a lot of discomfort in myself just like when I was in a monastery and with each book. I feel like I. Unable to let go a little bit. But at the same time, you build confidence with each one two and you say well, you know people. People didn't. Say Go home never tried this again after I did my first book and say. You build confidence and I think that's just the paradox of Riddick. You know it's like we're all. It's important to build up confidence in what you do, and it's just to be human in society, and to feel like I can stand up for myself and. Go into room. Sell an idea to my editor work. Do those things and yet? The other side of it is, you can see how like. When you become too rigidly identified with Im Jamal Yoga's the author. An all your happiness is attached to that. You suffer so. I feel as though like I'm in the same boat I will. I was always I'm just I'm trying to analyze. Trying to be self aware of how. my identity is always shifting. An how I'm still at need that forty. Four an identity and an for feedback from the community where social animals and yet I hope that I'm developing a little more. Flexibility and slow like right now. I'm coming out of doing just. My new book is a fantasy novel. That has nothing to do serve. And I know it's GonNa be. There's a bunch of cognitive dissonance there of like, but am I. Who am I now? If I'm doing these other kinds of books, or who am I now now that I'm doing children's books and A. But you know. I really feel like. Life is about. Really opening up to. Your passions and finding purpose in sometimes that purpose doesn't sit a box or Doesn't none of us fit into a box. It's like social media accounts. WanNa. Put us in like you this your Gary, you're on, you do interviews on the radio. and. They have to be these sorts, but you know obviously you're much more nuanced person than just your public persona, and so I think. You've got made to stage now. picky about it out loud where I'm really exploring flexible. Trying to have a flexible identity and allowed for all the things that I want to pursue creatively and as a parent to come through and not be shy about sharing. Those different hearts myself Knowing that it will, it may be a little feel, a little scarier weird Because I'm not just. A good a surfer and that's all I. Live eat sleep and breathe. Put a link in the show Charton. Put a few things together I'm GonNa, try and produce era in merger reddish raft here to take us between a couple of places. I'll put a link in the show starts to your wall on Youtube. I watched your documentary, which is absolutely beautiful. It is just. Infect robot needs to have look at it. The editing is amazing. The way you'll music blends with your story with the visuals Shimao. That really is something and I. Wonder it's done so well. You know at the at the film festivals. The. This piece this piece in there I. WanNa tie back to build the raft and talk about that word paradox. You said You surfing the Santa Cruz Bryk and thank you describe it as being very territorial. And this is a place. Where are very tribal and some guys start screaming obscenities at you. And you said you will almost a yell back when you remember the story of the Summer I. Who asked Zen-master? Please teach me the difference between Heaven and Hell. And when I heard you talk about the would paradox and building a raft, it made me think about will. The ultimate is heaven and Hell. Can you just run that story for us? Absolutely I mean. The San Lies Story. Is One of these classic tales that gets retold. Over many generations in. Basically. This. Is Sam comes to amount Danny says teach me the difference between Heaven and Hell and the the monk. Looks at him and this time when Samurai were very revered. And respected an. Says why would I I teach this uncouth creek like you such a high teaching in your not worthy of that and the Samurai Raises Sword in his. He has. All the signs of anger you know bulging veins and whatnot, and he's about to slice the monk and. The monk stops him says way. That's how. The Samurai realizes how profound teaching is, and he he he bows down ingratitude. Among says that is hadn't. Really Beautiful Story and Out in the lineup You know how it was. taught in what do I do? Do I respond. And I was feeling a bunch of anger myself. Anger Insecurity and all these other things and And realized you know when you're carrying those things. Yeah, you're the one suffering. I still have to have his lesson every day with my kids like what sometimes they'll remind me like even when I'm. Right. Don't hit your brother. You know and I find myself getting really wild up angry and red, says the battle sometimes about four year old will. Say Dad. Why are you so angry? An. Angry 'cause you're actually little. You're not supposed to doing. That we talked about this. But I realized when I'm doing that. I'm. I'm taking a toll on my house for one, but I'm also. They're looking at me and say. They're not seeing where the bad ones. They're all of a sudden seeing themselves as the victims. Of Angry Dad's. Rather than hearing the lesson of life. Why don't we hit you know? Do you appreciate it when you get? Stay calm at I feel like. I have to learn this lesson every single day, but if I stay calm them a bit more patient than we have the conversation. The lesson gets through. They respect me I've I've haven't had this connection. So, it's it's just one of those teachings that is so profound and Still Come back to all the time, so you ran away went to Maui lent to surf. And one day you go from. The Time said that she didn't pretty good. You a competition. And so you'll egos started to grow, and you start to say actually I'm pretty good. So sometime later your route the back. You'll looking at picking up. Some grunts cutting on you and you let fly shoe. You Yell at them. And you catch yourself. I guess my question just by some what you're doing with the kids is how do we? had. We stay the pop because when I. What I saw in the documentary talked about it. It reminded me of the Matrix morpheus saints. Neo. There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. and. I find this Jamila. A lot with podcasts softened with books and blogs videos, and there's a lot of stuff we know. But we don't actually walk the path. We know the path. We walk the path whether it be food or thinking mindset resilience courtesy. Smiling. What have you learned about the difference between knowing the path and walking the path, and actually trying to stay in the woking pot, and not just sitting in the knowing pot in ever gonNA, walk the path perfectly. Know there's that model outs. self-improvement or spirituality where? There's an end goal and once you hit it. You're sort of perfect year. You never make another mistake, but I think that's the best. Thank you I, think we're always on an ever evolving. Pass. Of Growth and expansion in learning and there's always. I don't think Buddha Hood is is absurd finished product. So. You know we were always going R-, always making mistakes and we become. We become what we judge and. A. Human experience that think. We need that you need the fall down and make a mistake and and. You know, get angry once in a while and see why it didn't work. And hopefully just do it in a way where. When you become. When you when you do know that pass. The! The selling down moments are. You hope that they're not disastrous to others. But sometimes I think we just have to be compassionate with ourselves in realized that. The past is really about falling off of it and getting back on and trying again and and And you over correct you under correct than up. There's no, but there's no perfect. It's just it's. It's really about setting your compass. Is this little as a set your compass compassionate? You always end up on the best island. But which sounds Nice, but when you set your compass to compaction, it doesn't mean that that you're perfect. Just because that's where your compasses that you're going to run into icebergs in rocks, there's going to be storms and. As you do that if if your mindset. Is Well. This is about. Learning and growth than those mistakes are the way you. The way that you get. Way You approve a little bit so that when somebody else? Is Making in. Maybe your child is making the same stakes. Ubaid you can, you can help them out. But A. Yeah, there's no. There's no perfect you know and. I don't know I. Don't know what else to say the. Other than Nino. I think a lot of us. WanNa. Give you know. Things are trendy now, so it's easy to be especially when you're in the business of helping, other people learnt to meditate or writing books about it. It's easy to become a preacher and not do the work to. and. I say like with say with mindfulness practice. It's like. The Talking about mindfulness practice doesn't really help you all you have to actually. Do it. And so that's that's the walking the path by its front allotted. Some People Love to talk about surfing and get lots of boards and things, but not really go out, but she. Just out. You don't get any better. That way does no debt particularly in your early part of your journey. You're a guy who is see she. Seeking a freedom was important to. You is seeking freedom. and. During the documentary in some of the interviews I've heard you say that you know people. A lot of people have a desire to find freedom. And we normally in my mind associated with freedom to work when you want. The job you want, do what you WanNa do had you? WanNa do it. We speak of freedom in terms of things we could do, but then I hate you. Talk about freedom of the mind. Which I thought was really interesting. Is that I think a lot of people struggle with having freedom in mind? Head we do that Jamal. How do we find that freedom in Erin minding Aaron thoughts. What have you learned about that? We WanNa, find freedom and circumstances and set it up just right, or it's like you've got the you've got the perfect house. The perfect little beach and the wet know. Were you have the waves to yourself and? There's nothing wrong with pursuing that and there's if you get there, there isn't. There are. Lots of practical. Ways! That circumstances can help you feel more free, no doubt amid. You're working hundred hour weights, and you're getting paid less than minimum wage or something. It is difficult more difficult for you so this I don't want discount that circumstances are important. But I think as a society we. We. We put out of all our eggs in that basket of seeking out street in the circumstantial Censo- like about having that convertible in the board house in the In the right. But. All that stuff is constantly changing. It's bound to go bad at some point. It's like the best laid plans fall apart, you know wealthy people are often unsatisfied with their wealth. You know it's like everything. Everything has a every year has a Yang in circumstantial world. But inside your mind. It's a bit different. In that. You, know if you. Really take the time. Every day. To Do these basic practices of watching your brass and letting your mind. Signs. Some space between. The pounding waves of thought there really is. This sort of Fettered Bliss that is. Has Sages throughout? The ages have talked about it as your natural birthright. and. Is this Or John Masters Call it a wish fulfilling gem that it's like it's always been yours and. It's the most obvious thing when he when you even get a glimmer of it like why have I been such an idiot? Not Seeing that I have joy inside. And, even now saying that I feel like a fake segment that because. I'm so busy with. Being a dad and work, and what not that? I don't get enough time always to tap into that. But at times when I've really dedicated. Time to to doing the practices. Of finding internal. Peace. It's really real. That you can. Tap into your original sorta birthright of of of this natural state of bliss that is in your mind in your heart, whatever you WanNa. Call it! At that, but it takes practice, it takes work. Again anything else, and there is for sure like this you can. You don't have to do it by any one school like it doesn't mean you have to cross your legs. Their loud is for ten hours a dozen. There are all kinds of. Artists Stumble on this surfers people out in Many things they give us all poetry. But I do think there's something special about the stability. That you can find in In Meditation. And sort of the the mastery of mind that you can find with A. Structured practice. Gym I think that's really important. Because if you don't have that stability, you said it's still even if you're finding these ecstatic moments like wind and sex poetry. Who Does love all that? You can you can does are all windows doorways to the same kind of joy, but. This this quiet kind of practice that. I, think these yogis throughout the ages developed I. THINK IS A. It's like a stable way of. Having it available. that. I've been talked into AS A. Felt myself is is really powerful. I think a couple of seasons go. We had a guy on the shows cold. Akai Nevada he right Fianna. And he told us the story of the Buddha and the second era, and I've heard you talk about the second Arrow and I've got a couple things just to ask you about if you can fill seen on. Your take on the secondary and. It seems like that Second Arrow, is that gap between the pounding wives of thought you're talking about, so it seems like there's something in that if you could elaborate on it and then. In the same vein. How have you used that with your writing? Because I suspect there were times, and on now there are times when you've lost vibe on your writing and. Gone through that whole thing about comparison and concern and worries stuff. Give us your take on the second Darrow is, is that in your mind that gap in between the panting wives? And how have you applied that to your own site writing? Yeah Yeah. I love that story of the Second Arrow basically You know the Buddhist talking to all the monks. And as as licensed to, and he's saying you guys, you do slides, mindfulness, stash and everything else And you might notice. You still have some pain in your life, and you're still have disatisfaction. So. What's the difference between people who? Practice by the tation and this path been an ordinary person and. He says well, you know the ordinary person who's not mindful gets shot with an Arrow and feel the pain of the era. and. and. And then beat his breast and laments. freaks out about it and complains. You know who shot that era at Y. always with arrows sent it triggers triggers you into as many stories of like. Why does life suck? And all of that the says is the second era. You basically jabbing yourself with the second half when you go on and on into these. Stories. So the minds will want still feels pain, but it's just one era. And Yeah I mean that's the story of our days I. Think is like. As. I was saying before with my kids. I'm getting. Shot with Arrows all day where they say if I just take the IPAD away from them, they can start arriving on the floor at. I could say okay. This is a Bummer I. DON'T WANNA deal with Tantrum. But here it is I'm just GONNA wait. I'm just GONNA. Wait so it passes and say you now added. I told you that I've had time is up and. Or I can. Eat out start shouting at him and then go into a big like Courtney session about. My life is so hot. Right, now why can't get anywhere bent? Whatever whatever the stories that day or like? And, that's just a bunch of. Two three four. I might get into ten Eros. and. But the window the. Point is. Our sears, our emotional systems are faster than we are. So by the time you've noticed year, afraid or angry. You're already afraid or angry. You can't beat yourself. Consciously you have to train to find that gap so That's why you have to forgive yourself. When you notice, you've shot ten more house. You know it's like okay. It's fine by motion. System is faster than I am so. I've I've done it. And then you sort of deescalate from their attack can go and take some breasts down. Travis. Try to restart. But the gap between the waves that you're talking about is if you really. Are! Getting good at this way like able to watch how you react in every situation. Becoming kind of dangerous surfer of your mental waves, yet you can. Find that space of light here goes on about to react. and. I'm not going to take a breath Just realized this is uncomfortable. That discomfort is and that's okay. And then. Decide, then you sort of in the position of like will now if I could fix the problem from a calm in a calm way. Let me do that. If I can't fix it. I'm just GONNA. Let go move on You know like the Dalai Lama says if you have. If you have a problem and you can fix it, don't worry about it. If you have a problem at, you can't fix it. Don't worry. The worry is the second era. It's like if you if you can succeeding, go do the thing. Fix It if you can't. The worry doesn't help you at all is just going to happen so You know how I use that in writing I guess. Is. That, it's really like anything writing as hard like most jobs are and so. I can if I have a deadline or something. I'm on procrastinating Faking about how bad it's going to be when I have to go, sit in front of my computer and I'm already tired. That just adds a bunch of suffering, but if I just take the fake out, can start typing. I'm okay. And San goes for like once the the. the book is coming out is up things like you have all these expectations in hopes for it? And A. Never, met. It's like you never become a I haven't yet determined the. Beaten Stephen King or something selling books so. You you're not gonNA. You're going to be disappointed on some level and I guess seeing that is like well. That's okay, I'll be disappointed. And I'll just when I feel that I won't turn it into a big story about like. How I've sailed how it's just like well. That is the mindsets itself up to want more and when that comes, that's an era and you just great it about tear than say all right moving on now. Did a Ninja Sipa of you'll mental wives that will be on a t-shirt by Friday. That's cool that is. A needs. Of you'll mental as Daddy's going on the studio will that's gulled. Semi that semi side I would have it up if I if I take you back. Because there are people who he is like all of us, we hear this, so we hear about mindfulness, and we hear about Zen and Buddhism, but it's kind of. Got Right back out of the shower. They can't see that in their identity and we fear it. We can't see it. We done in Bryce it yet. What's really fascinated by a kid growing up you? Dad was in the military. which is how you ended up going to Hawaii when he got deployed there. And you born into Yoga see you got this. Dad's in the military in a spiritual family. You have surrounded by Yoga. Had added you dead. Navigate that dichotomy like? Did you think that's it was? It seems quite odd to have all those things wrapped up while he's on deployment so much so that your son can observe all that and it can influence. He's upbringing. How did you dead? Navigate or surf that dichotomy yeah hints phenomenal personalizing. I was thinking about. A passed away a few years ago. In his ability to really be himself. But a little break up into of C sections one I think. When you when you are a military brat or in the military, I think you realize how many people don't fit the mold of military person who like the stereotype. And So I really I always bristle against A. I'm a pretty progressive guy politically and like I'm all for. For example, we're having these huge George, floyd protests which. A against police, brutality and And sometimes that gets turned into. All cops are like a brutal racist now and. That always rubs me the wrong way like. Do you know like how many of these people actually know? Cops are live I've lived in or or or like. No military people in a lot of my dad's friends in the military works, immigrants, or black or gay. A lot of his. Most of his good friends in Didn't fit like this tough Guy Republican. Kind of. Image and And so. So I think in some ways. It wasn't as hard for for him to be a little bit different than than you'd expect A. End. And then, but also I think she. was just one of those guys who. You know we come from a long line of soldiers like. His Grandfather had fought. In the wars in Europe, and then my grandfather was in World War Two. And then, but he also grew up kind of the Bohemian did he was? He was raised Catholic, but was aggressor. He went to jazz ships. He served A lot of people who ended up in the military have that kind of. Diverse background than their adventure seekers, and they had been up saying hey i. don't know what else to ago. This looks like from getting on a submarine and And so But. Having said that. I think it was difficult for him. At times, he sell torn in different directions and when he was sending like. It out people underneath him to desert. Storm and he didn't really believe in the war felt deeply conflicted. I remember what I think. That was one of the reasons he he wrestled with drinking and all the stress that So. But, what that has done to his kids, I think is that. You don't eat out. I really strives not to put myself in any one box of. Of identity, and not just you know even though I, I mostly identified with progressive politics sometimes, I disagree and I I. I. Try to be one of those people who's like a critical thinker who doesn't say hey. We always have to tow. The tribal party line hair like every person has such a unique. Imprint? And what makes humanity beautiful is our ability to when we really live that and. IN DEBATE IN? Out Differ and so I think I bristle against this social media culture where it feels like. Sometimes whether no matter who you are, if you step outside of that. A image that people think you are in public like is almost like a tendency for the tribe to kind of beat you down and put you back in line. At A. I think we really have to watch that as humans right now because there's this sort of. We're all living this outward online persona. and that. Can Be good and have value, but it also We can fall into these More easily I think fall into these real. Tribal. Limited? Ways of being a couple of things to straight together here, Jamal. You talked about the day your dad came home and said on leaving. and Uh suspected when you think back at that, that's a very traumatic emotional When Your Dad, who you think is a fabulous guy. Goes I'm him gone. And then you talk about the fact that. A negative thought about yourself attached to other past negative thoughts about yourself. And your term was. It connects the same negative real estate in your Bryant compounds. Did that Hell Long. Did that compound view you? Dad Leaves. There's an emotional moment there. And all sorts of stories three of mine as a kid. Hen, long did that compound you and at what point were you able to break the disrupt that pathway? To create a different story, which helps you deal with it? Learn from it. and. Take something for the future. I mean I didn't know I wasn't aware at all that that. Those synopsys had tied together so. The anger at my dad from that moment the story that ran from it. Started running through it with your kind of that relationships are doomed or And and. Also. the this the. Anger that I had. Toward becoming a father as well. It's it was it was a slow at winding to that because I had to go through like seventy kids just to sort of. Rebellion feel of just living through my emotions and trying to make sense of them, and that was part of running away. And then But when I did run away was my daddy can't get man. We ended up having this time in Hawaii where we we felt. A reconnection to the water. and. It's only in retrospect having learned a lot about neuroscience since you're framing in terms of pathways in a really writing fear project I learned how. Memories, do have real estate. And each time you do, remember a traumatic. Experience. You're actually tapping that original real estate, but your altering it. You're altering it. And compounding it with with. This state of mind you're in as you remember it so I think when he and I were out in the waves sixteen and he came to get me. I was. We were that was positive exposure that I had had with him in years of exposure to. Each Other. and that this real exposure? The ocean or something. Like Klay for can provide was healing, but I didn't know you know any of that was happening was only later at writing it and writing was another way that that healing happened. I remember Writing Saltwater. Buddha cried through those first chapters. AD! And not being a healing, then seeing his reaction to the book of feeling sad about it. About an regretting some of the things that happened, but ultimately being really proud. Of made. A not being part of the healing. And then. And then it was really when I you know with my. Current wife's. My by aiming. The only married current wise makes it sound like married a bunch of women. And plans to marry anymore. But. But. When I met Avian was terrified to propose. Was Thinking about it. and. It was interesting I was at the same time I was I was researching this neuroscience I was pushing myself to surf bigger waves because I was reading the fear project was trying to get out there, and it was really getting over this fear of Surfing Mavericks I. Never Really got over, but I was able to do it successfully. And that was like a nuclear bomb that went off in my consciousness when I went down the face of at first Babic's waves. Where was like something from my childhood? Mice fear about that wave broke and it was like. Oh, you can break these fears. These things are in there. Was that real experience? Literally? When I came in that way I said on the I can do it I can propose the amy I can get through this. At that point. I was conscious that I had this real sheer of commitment. AB. And it was, it was palpable. So anyway, that's just to say. It's been a process. It's a process. I'm still in doubt but But I do feel this after many years of feeling like. My relationship with my dad was troubled. I now, really look back on our relationship with fondness and would love and don't feel I. Don't feel that trauma. Would I sell? As he was walking out the door. I have more understanding of where he was out and really. Admire in many ways how he lived. It leads you under something. I heard you talk to Dan. Harris about on his podcast, which is a really really good show. And that was. It was a terrific interview. Danza Big Ben about show. Hi, Dan we HARRA. The Harris Hair Haranadha. you. You told this beautiful story. About it's a menu met. And is that she agenda behind it. And he said to you very said. No probable. Way that story originate, and why does that statement means so much to you? That was. A monk that I became good friends with. THEM SO on. So The elevator version is is I. I've been to together with a woman for a few years of. Same deal I'd had a bunch of its. Commitments Years and then I'd finally come. Around was ready to commit What I got there. She said I've out of there and done that at a time when we were supposed to India together. And she was. indian-american. And so I ended up going anyway and was just a wreck. never felt more heartbroken by lives and never felt like. My life has just never gonNA amount to anything. But I made it up to the Himalayas. was trying to do. Of Journalism to get ready for graduate school and also some meditation. At Iran, a on. And gradually I learned that he was. Really grieving the loss of his family because he had come over. The Himalayas at age eleven to Ordain with the Dalai Lama. Hoping that he would then. Be Able to. Still keep in touch with his family. But which as the political situation with China wrapped up? He was never able to get back and he he didn't. have any APP had lost touch with them for fifteen years didn't know if they were all right. Two's very sad about this, but he was simultaneously the most joyful person I'd ever bet he just every every minute. He just exuded beamed. And yet, sometimes he would cry as he talked about his family. And I really felt like I was grieving, and I was just depressed, pissed off and angry at I I wanted to know. How Hubby's together. As, I was at a point in my practice, where I really wasn't I was using meditation as a way to sort of push emotional I was had this zen warrior approach route is like. It's about. Jetting tops for light. Eliminating emotion. And so I was doing a lot of meditation, but I don't think I was really contacting. Any of the real emotion I was just wanting it to go away. and. So? One day domino hiking the hills. Above this town McLeod Ganges and he was looking at the snow it. He got emotional Vicky about the snow into bat and I said. I saw. That he was getting teary, I said I'm I'm just so sorry that I can't. We can't find themselves and. He started laughing and he does. JEMMA Hugh Friday This fatty said no problem. And that? We laughed about it and. It was such a profound. Statement in one that I just realized that I wasn't incorporating into my life at all, because my very sad was a huge problem. It was my main righteous wanted to south and But it was after that that I ended up going on the tree, and it was church retreat ever that I ended up just. Bawling through the whole thing. Days Three. Is something cracked and I realized. That I just I couldn't stop crying I didn't it will again? It wasn't like this conscious thing like so told me that, and now I'm GonNa. Go on retreating cry. It just sort of those things happened together, but all the while I had that. Sort of mantra in my in my head. This very sad, no problem it was really helpful, and maybe he just gave me permission as this guy. Who was this very high bunk. Who to still have emotion like you don't have to. Being peaceful doesn't mean you don't. You're not Shearman? So. That was so helpful it still. Still really helpful to me. We've gotta eat against coming up on the show. Called Beth, Kinison, who wrote a Beautiful Book Cool Wabi Sabi and is a Japanese tomb that Japanese have a hard time. Actually explaining, but now what it is, but it's have a hard time explaining what it is. And in her book, Wabi, Sabi Beth talked about. Washing dishes without doing anything else being intensely in that moment. Noticing water in your hands, the feeling of the soap. The sound of the water flowing. and IT S he's A. It's a beautiful book that I porta. and. It made me think about you when I read that passage Jamal. Now we're going to talk today. Do. You have a practice like that that brings you back to that that gap between the pounding of the waves it. Do you have that that ritual? You have that process we go back to something to. Santa yourself with the census to experience that with the Japanese cooled Wabi Sabi. Yes, absolutely I mean I think I feel lucky to have lots of them. I mean certainly serving his one. but that feels like too easy because it's. It's one of those things that you sort of separate from the rest of live. It's like now I. Get to relax. Go Surfing, but. I've seen. Cooking has always been one of those things for me aware. Go to. Really. Just, sort of chopped onions in. An have experienced this real Shield really connected to. The grounded aspect of of being alive like. Soul sensory experience that helps foods just good. You're smelling everything and I but I definitely have moments With food. Where did that full process of whether? You're growing it? Cooking it eating it. It's such a chewed in of itself is like. A mindfulness? Is the full package Gino Fit 'cause it connects us. To To the cycle lives and deaths and. If you really WANNA burst in. You know. I guess the joy of of of the cycle of lots seems like. Cooking is in and eating. Our IT and Here on. Court during core gene. We've been getting back to that because we can't go out to eat as much and. It's been really lovely to. Every night. In my wife and I've been just going through the cookbooks cooking with our kids and it's something. Amazingly like? Kids really. They just they click in two different mode around food. Our kids do we have three wild boys. They cannot focus together on one project. Calmly. Usually at all. But if we do like at? We do cooking project. Sometimes, the whole family will be in there. In a really beautiful present way. Ensure House the time something breaks in one of the brothers bites each other or something, but it still on I'm amazed. I'm amazed how many times like? On most mindful moments, present moments together are often. Yeah measuring flower. Beating eggs. They seem to be a poem or a piece from a poet Rumi that seems to be at the core of your being and a lot of your writing. and. The poet Rumi wrote. We are not a drop in the ocean. We are an ocean in a drop. Why Y that statement. What's that mean to you? What does it resonate so much with Jubail well? There's there's the amazing kind of. Quantum aspect of where you just. Physics aspect where we're always trying to make sense of this. Idea that. There is no inherent south as we know it like. Here we are. Now I have a physical body identity. Around that body around the memories and thoughts that I have. And yet every day. Whatever it is that I think I am is exchanging out with the natural world. Right like I. Eat a carrot, some of that care it becomes and. And some moves back into nature than also we learned that our our atoms are constantly being switched out. So, what is it the? There's very little actual batter, sh-. Jamal comes out this little ball. That ball of manages expands and then dies and. And that? Matters, the same. The matter has completely been switched out lots of times over by the time Jamal is is. A returns to the Earth or my body returns they had so, what was it made me? That's the mystery right it was. It was the set of of Said of memories for shore at a set of actions, but also. and, perhaps like A. A, A mind streamers soul as the. Buddhist like the intensive. but But it's clear not getting under the spiritual around on a physical route, physical level that We really are in his continuous flow with. All of reality much like a wave has. A distinct look and you can follow that waves across the sea, and then it breaks on the ocean. Waves life and say that was a distinct way, but all the while the wave was just the ocean. It was. Energy moving through the media of Ocean, and it looks like it has all these distinct qualities in you can name it, but actually always was the entire ocean and and that seems to be the way that. Just reality is like everything is a way that actually down to the quantum level. Everything is moving as a particle or wave, and it's largely empty space. That we that we don't even understand at this point so I think it's a very satisfying quote on this. On an intellectual level of what we understand the paradox of being. In, roommate seemed to know that. End In lots of of a mystic have seemed to sense that. We are at once. The drop and the ocean. And And that every drops. Contained sort of. The. The. The potential of Of a of the whole. It contains the same basic essence. And And of course you can take that into real weird. Quantum, levels! Will maybe there are universes inside each Ataman? And I would not get into just mind boggling staff that is beyond my realm, but I've always found that somebody's likes to dabble in the quantum realm is really satisfying. Way of sending that up poetically and then at, but it's also. It's really what the White Ruby was looking at. It was like I think more. Of like a co on that was getting you to experience yourself as. An question the identity. And that's like more like zag level of like. Trying to break us out of our entrenched patterns at experience of that Satori you're like. This more here. There's more of. I don't have to be so locked in to my story of suffering. Do you know I could talk to you for hours Jamal I. Find Your stuff, so thought provoking Just encourage you to stop Ponda think re-address. A very conscious of your time and. You've got a new book coming out. wishes kids book. It's your first kids book right and it's coming at the end of June. Tell us about mop, yes. Really I realized that I. What I was trying to say a lot of words in Migra books. I could probably distill into a handful. And and. Actually mocked him to be just because one of the other things. I like Wabi Sabi things I like to do is doodle. I disliked to draw little stick figures in waves and things. Senator Dry, this one character, big curly hair like I had its kid and. I just really like drawing him, and then he just took on a character and live before I knew I had the story about this kid mop. WHO's nicknamed? Mop 'cause with them all But it keeps getting into. Big Emotions at school that Rodman to trouble. and. And so he learns what I learned I wish I'd learned at age seven or eight, but did until I was twenty that. Are lotions moves like waves. You can ride. The good ones happy feelings come and when they do absolutely shredded enjoy celebrated. But when those bad feelings come, that's okay. Storm ways or natural and. But you don't have to ride the storm wet right you can be. What did I. Say before the Ninja Surfer fear beds away. You get Ninja surf of your mental wives. You can you can duck dive on you can. and. If you do happen to get caught one, you could not fight it and relax, and so that really mopped learns that Metaphor. In August Satin. It clicks for him, but he can go back to school and. Anna and it's again and things. Don't go perfectly for he still gets angry. It's really like, but it's that lesson Saddam very said no problem. Is is sort of translating that sure kids and has absolutely stunning are by lies. Stick figures did. Didn't. With the publishers, so we were last defined. That Matthew Allergies A. artists in southern California. He did a really stunning job. With it, so I'm just having some fun with mop in the books I hope I can keep doing. We have a second one coming out basically like eight months later. And I just love it so where where do people check it out? Jim Moscow. There's a Lotta lead. Different Books an Yvette. You being doing quite a bit rotting since we last saw you in two thousand seventeen I think we caught up Where's the HUB FRILL? You're stuffy books or bet you you work. the DACA. Was the West simple? People J. A., R. M. A., L. Y. O.. G. I S. Dot net Jamal Yoga's dot net has. All my books and Mother good steps. You can watch the DOC on Youtube Right now during quarantine, the the producers put up there for free so. That's easy to find there and But yet mop is available anywhere. Books are sold. As are all my books. I think Dan way you guys are to that you can. You can order online or get him at your local bookstore so if your local store doesn't have until, tell him. This thing right will. We'll send you I A A T shirt when we've got the might. Ninja surfer. Ninjas surfer of your mental wives I think it's called out, thank. You might say good to catch up with the agree slice of book. In fact, the Curtis all the books and the doctor. It's beautiful. I'll put a loadings show nights and might we'll keep in touch great. Thank you so much great. Chatting against the radio, show. What did you get a massive headache? Call down. What's the so wash? So. What is my favorite part of that interview? Wendy's shed that story of the summary and zen-master. And the Difference Between Heaven and Hell. I thought that was. Gold is how simple and happen found that story was that it all has to do with their mind now I think thing that's. If, we look at Jamal and we didn't go into this show because we cover off in the last show, but he's very big on meditation. And I didn't. I intentionally didn't go down that offramp. But for those that are interested in meditation. Do you remember Giovanni? Defeats men, indeed. His what about a year ago was the last episode of one of seasons episodes two three, which Ma Bane to the end of season five. Yep. Anybody interested in meditation should listen to that shows a cracker in Giovanni talks about demystify it and talks about Ole all the different ways that we can gal about finding. Mindfulness and meditation, which is what Jamal is very very big on beacon. You can that in his previous episode? But, I thought. I thought. We would close with something that sits between Kinda. What Meditation Brings You? And the story of the summer I in mass of the differences between Heaven and hell that when you could find that place. I think that brings you freedom, but when you. He would freedom what I've been pondering talking to Jamal. As we think, freedom is freedom to do what you want when you want. But I think the biggest thing that Jamal brings to the show and Giovanni. The story that he told is when you could free your mind the burden of the past. or Opinions. And you can free your mind the heaven and Hell it's taking control of all your thoughts and your mind I think that. Is True Freedom. Among junk radio show well. We should probably think about closing out the show. Wide I, we throw the word freedom at Ula and see what you can come up with has. The first time I heard that song was my first ever radio station I worked at and I heard that song and I nearly fell off the chair. That is such a good song. But unfortunately I. Don't think it's US and it's probably a little. Bit Cliche Yeah Yeah. What else you got! A Now there's a classic. DOMINANT SKIN! Free But I. Don't know if they're audiences old enough to remember. Era, of free good, is it sad yuppie. Very. Seven other correct. What are you got? That'd be in your wheelhouse. That's that's that's brought up my alley absolutely, but apparently not yours. You're not much on a meal. Young Fan. I just don't see the attraction I mean that's a cracking song. Don't get me wrong if you're in the car with the windows down some of. You'd you'd crank it, but it's just I just wouldn't buy. And Neil young album put. There are millions of people lose. The plants on it sounds like it's best. That particular song sounds very. Let's do it. People say. Talk. Way Don Tonight. I'm Marie. The MOJO radio show is produced and recorded in the basement of food. Sound the law tips and tools to get your Mojo working. Check us out on facebook at the MOJO radio show or online at the MOJO radio show dot com to help us get better and get more people the opportunity to touch up them Ojha. You can now find us on unpatriotic. Follow the links on the front page of our website and for a coffee two a month you'll get bonus material and a copy of expressive hits nineteen. The best of the MOJO radio show. In the meantime to Polish your next radio production checkout through sound dot com Dodi you the about Gary. See Gary was dot com. And to book me Go to Andrew Pieces Dot Com. Andrew Pizzas speaking. See next time.

Jamal youtube Hawaii US WanNa Jamal Yoga Dana Gary Humble Garrett Dan writer I lake Rugby Netflix FACEBOOK Rumi Jason Harvard
121: A Room of Her Own

The Slowdown

05:00 min | 1 year ago

121: A Room of Her Own

"I'm US poet laureate, Tracy case Smith, and this is the slowdown. What's your sense of thirteenth century, poet and sufi mystic Rumi? Do you have a favorite roomy poem or passage or do you resist his brand of quotable wisdom while it's in my nature to resist the things. Everyone loves I to enjoy roomy because he seemed tuned in to something powerful reading him existence. Almost turns inside out making a new and better kind of sense. Here's a little snippet of Rumi your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. It took me nearly twenty years of trying and failing at love for that bit of advice to make sense. Maybe if I didn't count it at eighteen things would have been different though, I suspect it is only the frustration of repeated failure that makes a person receptive to new approaches. I think I've finally learned some of the lessons love has to teach me, but this advise doesn't seem obsolete. Even if I don't feel like it's love, I'm seeking. I can try replacing the word love with something else. Like say happiness. Your task is not to seek for happiness, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. And suddenly, I find myself envisioning what I want not as some distant possibility. But rather something available to me if only I can recognize what's keeping me from being able to receive it. I think today's. Poem a room of her own by Ming? D depicts a woman coming to a similar kind of realization a woman who feels trapped in the life. She has created for herself she tries to fix things. But her changes recreate the circumstances of her unhappiness, how easy it is to recognize such patterns in the lives of others. The poem speaker watches the woman and understands what the two of them share. She recognizes herself struggling in a similar self made confinement. And then a way out becomes clear away out for both the woman in the scene and the one outside the scene watching as if her own life were depicted there. A room of her own by Ming day. She never knew love made for such cold winters. She hides in the room. She painted for herself tuning listening as music spreads pain. Like spider webs down her legs. She walks from one corner to another the room grows. Bright with sunlight or moon stabbing. Her with needles. She paints a wall erases paints, again erases a wall grows like leaves emerging in winter she wants to paint a wall around the wall to guard a memory, then paint flowers and birds mountains and oceans a wave swirls around like a wreath circle. Up entangling her. I see myself in that room struggling paint a window. I tell her a window that leads to the sky paint a sky. Translated by main de with Sylvia, burn and Katie Farris. The slowdown is a production of American public media in partnership with the library of congress and the poetry foundation. To get a poem delivered to you daily. Go to slow down show dot org and sign up for our newsletter.

US Ming congress Katie Farris Tracy Smith Sylvia twenty years
Muslim mystics on the power of pain

Future Perfect

56:55 min | 2 weeks ago

Muslim mystics on the power of pain

"Your website is pretty, but is it smart if it can't answer the most basic questions about your business when people search then? Ab It's not. Your next answers can help yikes. Answers upgrades your website with a powerful search engine. See your customers get an official answer to every question when they searched for information. And that means you can drive more transactions while also reducing your support costs the best part it's free to try. JUST GO TO YAHOO DOT COM and learn more about how your next answers can be the brains behind your business. You're clutching with both hands to dismiss. Of You I. Our whole broken nece is because of this. You and I. Should live. As if you and I never heard. Of A you and I'm Seagal. Samuel Co host of the way through. This summer my colleague shot L. ING and I are taking turns talking to spiritual leaders and philosophers who can help us navigate all the really hard stuff going on the pandemic economic collapse, the racial injustice all of it. We're hoping these thinkers can help us wide our. And maybe even find something meaningful or in this whole experience. My guest today is owned Steffi. A professor of Islamic studies at Duke University. He specializes in Islam mystics or Sufis like the well known poet Rumi. Omit comes from an Iranian Muslim family, but he's left in the American south for many many years now, and he feels a deep affinity with leaders of the civil rights movement like Martin King. In fact, he sees certain parallels between their views and Sufi views on love and justice. In this conversation immed- explains the Sufi tradition of radical love, which involves both love for the divine and for our fellow humans. And what it would look like to be guided by that tradition today, what would roomy do in a pandemic? We also discussed how we might be able to lean into our suffering and isolation how we can actually use it to our benefit rather than just trying in vain to escape it, so here's my conversation with Omid Safi. Professor Saffy. Thank you so much for joining us on this podcast. It's lovely to have you and I'm really excited to have you in particular because you're a professor of Islamic Studies in particular you study misses them including the mysticism of Rumi the famous beloved Sufi Poet. And I love these texts. So I'm really excited to get to chat with you and I wonder if we could start by having you tell me a little bit about yourself. Where did you grow up? How did you become interested in Sufism the mystical dimension of Islam? Thank you and it's a really wonderful joy to to be with you I have that. Kind of somebody, unique background of both being born in the US, which gives me a lot of unearned privilege, and also of having grown up overseas, so I was born in Florida, but then my family both my mother and my Father Ali and Peron are Iranians and they decided that Iran was a great place to raise children so we went to Iran when I was one, and we lived there until I was about fifteen years old at which time we moved back to the United States. I have the experience of being both a born US citizen and an immigrant and sort of dabble perspective. kind of in some ways is always shaped. A lot of my outlook and Iran was a wonderful place. You had lots of family, very. Close tight knit family. And I was surrounded in the way that so much. Persian culture tends to be in this world of music and poetry, and in particular Sufi poetry, which is really the backbone of Persian culture, so figures like Rumi and Hafiz are the anchors of but most Iranians think of as as their cultural background and My parents instilled a great love for these teachings in us. It's nice that you said you know you have both the double perspective of being American born an immigrant. Almost like you're kind of translating between both worlds, and you have gone on to translate and publish. Some of the poems of Rumi so it's sort of you know you. It sounds like you grew up really having a foot in each world and translating between them I love that wider perspective that you bring, and that's actually the threat. I would like to sort of start with. For me personally, my favorite Sufi is in the lower be twelfth century Spanish Sufi who I grew up studying with my dad. My Dad is a former professor of mysticism. Well, it was very interesting upbringing. Let me tell you. So I wanted to just open up this conversation for the listener, who, maybe as not coming from a Muslim background, maybe has not heard Sufi words before just to give a taste and to say there's something very universal here. There's a universalist spirit which makes these teachings really open to everyone so everyone no matter their background should feel free to kind of common, listen and feel welcomed into the conversation so I'll read just a short. PARAGRAPH FROM IGNORE BE. This is my favorite poem of his, he says. My heart has become capable of every form. It is a pasture for Gazelles and convent for Christian monks and Temple idols, and the pilgrims, Kaaba, and the tables of the Torah and the book of Koran. I follow the religion of love. Whatever way loves camels take. That is my religion and my faith. So I love that I love that poem. It's I. Find It really beautiful and for me. It picks up on this threat of universalism that I see in Sufism. In the sort of mystical strain of Islam, but I wonder if you were introducing Sufism to someone who's totally new to it. What would you wanNA tell them about it? Yes I'm I'm so glad that you shared a that particular poem, which is also one of my favorite ones when Edna, rb says I followed the religion of love, the scrolls of the Torah and the pilgrims around the Kaaba in the temple. Part of what he's doing is that he is going deep into the roots of the Islamic tradition. And they're the word for heart is FAB which means transformation? And the idea that if the Arab he plays with is that it is not the head, a reason that can perceive God. The heart. And any understanding of the divine has to be perpetually dynamic. And in need of transformation. So, what some other mystics might call the ideal. Should never be frozen should never be static and the minute that it does. It is no longer God. It is an idol. And yes, maybe we can read the Bible and the Koran and other accounts, and perhaps in a patronizing way. Shake heads in disapproval at the people who used to worship gods made out of wood and stone, if abby and rummy and the mystics of Islam. Are Teaching us that most people worship a God that is made up of IDs. That they worship God not as God the real, but rather the conceived constructed God of beneath. But they themselves have constructed at Roomy, comes out of the deep tradition that we tend to call the path of radical love. It is way beyond simply having fantastic spiritual experiences. The one will it is way beyond. Avoiding pain and torment, and perhaps even Hellfire though fleet. That's a nice side effect, and it's beyond the concern for Salvation in heaven. It is to be in love with the business of it. It is. Love the Gardner more than the garden. I that tradition radical love is not something. For the museums this is the living tradition that continues right down to our on H.. If sounds like there's just this real desire to become one with God to be so close with God, that you're almost indistinguishable and I think we'll come back to these ideas if it later of union with God of. The desire to avoid suffering. I want to for now. Bring us right down to Earth right into the present moment and concretize all this a little bit I like to do these sorts of thought experiments I like to think about historical figures and try to imagine what they would do today. If they were in my situation, so will you indulge me in a little thought experiment since you for you focus on Rumi? Let's imagine imagine if roomy were alive today in the US in two thousand, twenty, living through the pandemic and everything that we're living through. What do you think he would be doing right? This may be. We'll give us a little bit of a sense of. How these mystical ideas can be put in practice. Would he be engaging in petitionary prayer asking God to stop the virus. Would he be out in the street? Delivering supplies to people would be social distancing. Would he wear a mask well? I'm fairly certain that if he were to be in public that he would be wearing a mask first of all, it's just it's cruel and selfish to not wear masks when you're in public and it's not just for your own sake. It's also for the sake of everybody else, so let's just get out of the way. Look. We sometimes tend to have this dichotomy that we like to create. Would he be doing prayer, or would he be out on the street? Yes both, and above when where is it ever said that the life of the spirit and the life of bodies? Have to be divorced from one another The God that is the subject of wants petitions is sustained near of our bodies, hearts and souls. And if you love the folk, you care for the folk. What sets the path of radical love. Apart I think from so many other traditions is the very notion that if you claim to love God, you have to love God's creation. CanNot claim to be indifferent to the suffering of humanity, and indeed other since she and beings. If you claim to be on this path on this journey, so the question of suffering I, think is one of the most important ones. We are so uncomfortable. With our own pain, their own suffering. We don't know how to deal with their own pain. And as a result, sometimes our hearts become hardened and callous when we hear the cry of another person or another community. And then we go right into all the defense mechanisms that we have, and of course you see this nowadays, you have whole communities of color black communities in particular who are on the street, picking up on the cry of Eric, Garner and George. Floyd, talking about how we can't breathe. And you have people responding to that by saying I. Don't particularly like the anger in your voice when you're telling. Breeze, could you say it, but say it again a little bit? Could you say it in a way? That makes me feel a little bit less antagonized. And these are all the signs of callousness in our heart. We, are. In those instances. Not Unable but unwilling. To confront stuff right the path of Love Sufis. Would have been not talking. ACT The people. Who are hurting invulnerable, but standing in their midst. I. Think that's what the message of. An all these mystics be today to identify suffering to stand with those hurting and vulnerable love starts from there. This is not a very. Popular thing to say God does have a preferential treatment, but it is not for religion is not for a nation is not a race or ethnicity or gender. It's for the poor. God is on the side of the week and Devan ruble. And I think in the context of the current pandemic. What we see is that this pandemic is disproportionately taking black lives people who are low income people who are experiencing homelessness. So it would seem like you know. These are the people that an ethic of love would demand that we really do our utmost to protect. If, that means wearing a piece of cloth over your mouth when you go outside, you know the very small sacrifice to make presumably for achieving that somehow. Among all the countries of the earth, we seem to be. Almost uniquely unable to rise to this challenge, not because we lack the resources or a lack, the funds or the expertise I wonder if we lack the care and the love. You know that reminds me of a really stark contrast that I see between. That you find in Sufi thought and a very prominent strand in American thought in Sufism just like in the mystical traditions of a lot of other faiths, Buddhism Judaism many others. We see a real emphasis on selflessness and I don't just mean by that Oh, you're being generous i. mean something much more radical, total ego annihilation, right getting rid of your notion that you have a bounded self that is separate from others separate from God. In, Sufism. We have this idea of fanatic. Right? Becoming completely absorbed in God. To me, this seems like the polar opposite of American individualism. I think we're in a country that has a very strong libertarian streak where we're almost obsessed with individual liberties and I wonder if you think that this emphasis on our personal freedom, personal autonomy actually is getting in the way of expressing solidarity with one another drink pandemic, which is really a situation that demands a more collectivist mindset. Yeah, that's a wonderful question I. I do think that something about you know. This rugged individualism is certainly. Both real and also at times like the over. Exaggerate it. I mean after all. We are the very people who. WHO FOUNDING DOCUMENT STARTS WITH WE THE PEOPLE. It doesn't start with I. The person. It's we the people. There's notion of the people hood. The we miss the US. which is so fundamental I always, you know I was. Blessed in my life to have been loved and Mentor D-, by the close friend of Dr King's Uncle Vincent Vincent harding. And he would always take me back to that document and reminds me that what the document says. Is We the people? In order to form a more perfect union establish justice. And he's he would always pause and say thank God. It never said in order to form a perfect union. because. We were not perfect when we committed genocide against indigenous people. We were not perfect during the years of Transatlantic Slavery and Jim Crow. We are not perfect now. The goal is to become just a little bit more perfect today than we were yesterday and to move towards the direction of Shaping Perfect Union tomorrow compared to today. And how do we do it? Establish Justice. And, of course, you know, justice is never individual. would there's a reason why they call it social justice. It's just as out in society. It's not I wanna get what I can for me. I hear you talking about two notions. There's an ocean of love. And there's a notion of justice that you brought up and I'm curious how you think can. How Sufi thinkers would say these two notions interrelate? Well. You're very student at picking that up except they're not to notions, there's one motion. And the way that the Sufis talk about it. It was it was almost fell out of my chair. The first time that I heard Uncle Vincent Vincent Harding Express this because in here. Was this eighty year old black Christian. Elder of the civil rights movement. It was as if he was reading something out of a Sufi texts. just as there is won- love. And that? The love of God has to flow into love of humanity. That same one love when it's unleashed onto this world right the Sufi say. That love is not an emotion. It's not a feeling it is the very being of God unleashed onto this round. Love that brought you here. It is love that sustains it here and if you can just get over your ego. And Merge, into this cosmic current of love. That same love is GonNa delivery back home. So. It's helpful to think of this love as an OC. Amick wave that pours through you. And when pours out of your heart out into the public? Square we're recognize. It as justice. Right, so you hear Cornell West. Say This you hear Minson harding and Dr. King say this Alabama Kerr and student for nonviolent Coordinating Committee members said this during the civil rights era. All that we mean by justice is love comes into the Public Square I love that your pointing out that love and justice are not actually two separate things, but are kind of part of one wave. There is this roomy quote that I read in a Coleman Barks translation, a caveat that by saying Coleman Barks. Translations are perhaps more interpretations. He takes a lot of liberties with the text, but with that caveat. There is this one part where says what sort of person says that he or she wants to be polished and pure, and then complains about being handled roughly. Love is a lawsuit where harsh evidence must be brought in. To settle the case. The judge must see evidence. I find there's an interesting relationship there between love and Justice Right Love for your fellow people isn't just saying to them. Yeah, whatever you're doing, it's great, you know. Universalism means like total relativism if you don't want to. Be kind to others, or if you WANNA. Be Racist or whatever? That's totally fine. There is this element of. Judgement there is this element of. Criticizing when you see something you think is wrong or is going to harm other people and being willing to criticize when you see that is is part of justice, but that's not separate from love. That's right. That's right. Let's talk about the massive pain and suffering that a lot of people are experiencing right now during this pandemic. Think a lot of religious leaders and spiritual leaders are responding by trying to offer comfort that aims to ease the suffering, but there's also this really rich tradition in a lot of religions and spirituality is about suffering actually being Ino-. Blaming if you hurt us it correctly, this idea that pain can actually lead to good things are good, internal development sometimes, and I see a lot of this attitude in Sufism, roomy in particular. Has I mean just? I tried to pull out one quote, but there were five million, so I kind of gave up. Because it's everywhere right he says brother to be a lover. You must have pain. Where's your pain? Elsewhere, he just says seek pain, pain pain. Increase your need right. He's always in calling upon us to increase our. Pain are suffering in some sense. So how would you invite us to think about this? In relation to the suffering in the pandemic? Some, kinds of suffering seem like they're useful. Some maybe not so useful. That's a great question so I mean I. Think here's again a part of where each of us have to be true. To our own traditions and I'm a Muslim boy. Am Muslim boy of Iran. I'm the south. Who is politically most at home in the Black Church? And spiritually most at home in roomy. And if some people find that contradictory, that's really they're probably not bind you know. I'm not a Christian so when I listen to Martin whom I love. A moved by an inspired by. An i. hear him talk about. redemptive suffering. Willingness to bear suffering, and to pick up your own cross, and that if we can do so with dignity, than nothing shall be more redemptive and transformative. About that. Because that tradition of redemptive suffering isn't my And I want to be true. To how my life of faith and my life of! Politics is too limiting of a word, but my life of being a citizen of a human mingled together. I, also being somebody who was med in a previous life. And spent so many years volunteering in cancer wards pediatric cancer awards one of the questions that I always about when I hear those kinds Kinda Rumi quotes. was. When you read Rumi, talking about pain. Or you hear Martin Talking redemptive suffering. I quit myself back in that situation of one of those young mothers at the hospital. Holding her six month old infants and imagining what I would say to the. Would I go to them and say. I know you're enduring pain on your babies enduring pain. I want you to know that this pain is redemptive. That if you knew how as Roomy at times says if you knew how precious does paint was? You would plead for it with got BECKFORD. No I wouldn't and I. Don't think any kind and tender human being would when you witness pain. Sometimes, the way of bearing witness is to actually be silent. Now what do I do with those traditions of Rumi talking about pain. To begin with I. Don't think we have to go looking for pain. There's already pain in this world. There's already suffering in this world. Romy begins his whole collection of poetry. Talking about this suffering that comes all the different types of separations. For some people nowadays you might be separated from your loved ones that you don't get to see. Having gotten to embrace my momma at my Baba for six months now. You might be separated from a place that feels like home either. Your birthplace or the place that spiritually and aesthetically feel most at home. You might be separated from your own dreams. That you thought you GONNA be somebody. And Life hasn't quite worked out that way and so there's pain in bed, but then he goes on to say. Every heart breaks. But not every heart breaks open. And there's a difference between a heart that merely breaks and a heart that breaks open. So first of all, thank you so much for saying that. When someone is in a cancer ward are suffering terribly due to pandemic, induce death, or whatever it is, we don't go up and say to them. Hey, everything happens for a reason. This is terrific. You're so lucky that your loved. One is dying right? That's no right. I would feel terrible if someone said that to me. I guess what I'm left wondering is how do we work with? Pain and heartbreak so that we become the person who as a result. We break open and don't just break right. How can we hold the suffering of the pandemic? In a way that could actually be ennobling, or we could actually turn it into something, meaningful or useful. Sufi tradition have any pointers as to how we might do that. Yeah. I think a lot of it comes down to this notion of. The idolatry. Of the finite. Ego! So many of us if you just look at her own body, we think that we end at the edge of our fingertips, or if I had hair at the tip of my head. But. Instead in a we use our a fluid being your your soul is extending and already emiss- with other people. That same finite ego. Has a tendency to think that it is the master of the universe, but you write. Your own destiny. And that's it's only a matter of figuring out the. Best choices for you here on the air and so much of the pain that we have. Is that realization that? Our ability is finite that we were unable to prevent pain for ourselves or for people that we love we care about. If instead. We didn't see ourselves as one bound itself. Moving through perhaps bumping up against other finite self. Really saw one life. One Soul. One year winning. One living. One love. then. The pain and the suffering there might witness in somebody else and our own pain and suffering, which resonate with one another and I think that's at least a key to a heart that breaks open. EGOTISTICAL PAIN Always turns, back, on itself. Right, yeah, yeah I! Hear you going on about your pain and your communities. What about my pay? Your knee my back. You know my first gut reaction when you are saying this was no. This sounds horrible because you're saying okay. Maybe a key to dealing with a suffering is to actually feel how I don't have this bounded ego, the separate self I'm actually. This thing that merges with all other beings, and so I share in everyone else's suffering. My first reaction is Oh my God. That sounds horribly overwhelming and terrible, because that multiplies my suffering a million fold. But then my second response internally when you said that was. Okay, maybe that would help me. Feel a sense of connection with all of these other beings, and there might be something in feeling connected with that larger stream of consciousness or being that actually is soothing, because it makes us feel that we're not alone. I think a big part of what. is so painful when we're suffering these days. Is that it has this isolating element to it? We feel alone in and there's something maybe. Soothing and psychologically calming and healing about feeling like. We're united with everyone else, even if the mode that we're united with them, in is a motive suffering exactly so know has it's wonderful line translated in my book, Radical Love You're clutching with both hands to dismiss of YOU and I. Are Whole broken. This is because of this. and. Part of this does go back to that notion of individuality and individualism that we were talking about a little bit ago, and you're right. Some parts of this are woven into. Strands of Western thoughts. The reason that you see me being a little skeptical is you know if you are so insistent on our individuality and individualism while you're on your phone that? While you texting and tweeting, grabbing on facebook, because you crave connection well, okay, that connection is an indication. Of the fact that you're never meant to the island, you're meant to be in community with other being and there's this wonderful room if I don't have a favorite bomb, but. Is Up there You and I should live as if you and I never heard. Of View and and I. I think that really speaks to. You know this idea in Sufi thought of. Getting rid of the notion of the bounded separate ego, and how we're all, we all already always are in connection with each other. And it is making me think a lot about our current situation whereas you mentioned. During the pandemic, a lot of us are just in physical isolation. Unable to hug the people we love and. Go to the places where we feel at home. I find that. In the, West definitely I see this a lot I see in us a lot of fear of isolation I think. A lot of us are so scared of being alone. There was a scientific study done a few years ago, where the gave people the choice between being alone with their own thoughts for fifteen minutes or getting electric shocks, getting mild electrocution, and a lot of people chose the electric shocks right, that is how. How horrified we in the US, are of being alone the Sufi. Tradition has a lot to say about the benefits of isolation of Hala. There's this idea that it can allow you to focus on meditation on spiritual development, and this goes all the way back to the Koran and the Bible, right you see Mohamed and Moses going for forty days to the mountain to commune with God, and then they get their big revelations. Is there some way in which we can use this pandemic to not run away from our `isolation and In a panic mode, constantly trying to text, someone or tweet or Communicate with someone, but instead to lean into that solitude, and somehow use it to our advantage. That's a wonderful insight and. You're right that Even when you think about how languages. and. If you talk about being alone with no one wants to be alone. But if you talk about solitude. As, some people would say oh. That sounds very nice, and this is again. One of the reminders that the would not all on the same boat when it comes to the pandemic that for many people there is. Very. Crushing economic hardship that has come the loss of jobs loss of portions of their job. Inability to move around freely. We're talking about economic. Are Chip medical hardship. and also not all in the same boat when it comes to some of us are extroverts, and some of us were introverts, and we all have aspects of those us. None of us are one hundred percent is. That I have the great fortune of being married to someone who is much more on the introvert side. And she was like we get to stay inside and spend time in the garden and go for one on one walks and read books and listen to podcasts than play sacred music. It would be okay if this lingered. You know for a few years. Living her best life. Yes, I mean. This is like you know not to have to have small talk, which is just. Painful. Painful painful and she would much rather just politely bow out of the conversation and go to the fiscal solitude. and know for me somebody who tends to get a lot of my energy by interacting with people and get charged up. By having a hard conversation. Chat, but the heart to heart by. My, hope is that this? Unplanned perhaps unwanted. Periods of retreat and give us an opportunity to examine around life to think about what is it that we've been prioritizing? What is an feeding our hearts and our souls so every one of us has some signs of the EGO My wife and I were laughing about this couple of days ago. One of my own ego attachments is I love cars. It's like the twelve year old boy in me. That has never entirely grown up and I love a little convertible. What's the point of having a convertible if you can go anywhere? Or if you're not going somewhere as often, it's interesting at least wasteful. You know what I would really love to see my momma. To say my Bubba and When you think about Moses Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha and roomy Matt Harvey. All of whom did this practice allawas of? Moving like a wave to a cave to a mountain top to the inward. This wasn't a permanent calling. It wasn't that you would move to a cave. You would go inside to be alone with the one. And then like that wave, you would come back to the ocean and bring the fruits of that back into society. I think that's the part that I would love to see us as a community as a world community do this now and the invitation that I find is helpful for people to do at this point is examine your life. and see what is really feeding your soul. You know so many of us who are attached to our phone devices. We start to get really panicky when the battery lights on them comes on. Because it means you only have twenty percent left right, and then you like nervously. Start looking around like. Where's my charger worst outlet and if you in those days where you could fly if you're in an airport, you try to find with utter futility. The one outlet that is still working even if it's. Right near the bathroom on the floor. You would sit. There s so that you can recharged. I have been that person on the floor near the bathroom. We've all been that person and is by the airlines have against just pudding hundred these things like normal human places. But, what if your heart's? Had A red badly. Light. Would we even know where to go to recharge? And that's GONNA look different for every person. For some of bless. It might look like reading Rumi Poetry. Listening to a podcast. Sitting with your Mama. Embrace of friend making love to apart? Going for a walk in the woods gardening. Putting your feet in the coldstream. Listening to the tripping of the birds in the morning. Or going for a hike up on the mountains. Freyer or yoga. I, actually don't particularly care what that practice is rejuvenator soul. But I think it is really important to be asking ourselves. Do we know what it is? And do we know how to locate it? And do we know how to return to it again and again and again until it becomes a practice. Yes, I think that. particularly in the West, we are generally in the before times so busy with work with status tracing with a lot of these things that distract us from our internal world and that or even just for income reasons, make it really hard for us to have time to look at internal world and find things that will recharge us on a deeper level so in one way like you said I hope that this pandemic can give. Can give some of US I. Think it will be the privileged among us really. Who can afford it. Time to use this isolation as a moment where we can look inward and and reevaluate, you know my actually living in tune with my values are. There's some things I would want to change even when the pandemic over. So there is that period of Hallo of retreat, but I like that you pointed out there is this really dialectical relationship. In Sufi thought between Hallo and Jolla right retreating into yourself exactly exactly and going out back into society. Since he is, my favorite will read a quote from him. He says for him whom God has given understanding, Retreat and Society Hallo Angelo are the same. In fact it may be that society is more complete for a person and greater and benefit. Since threw it at every instant, one increases in knowledge of God. Right, so is there. Is this notion of YOU WANNA retreat? You want have this this period of isolation where you're looking inward, but that's not the end goal in itself. You don't want to just stay there forever. You WanNa, then ultimately use the wisdom. You've gained and the introspection. You've gained in that period of solitude. To then go back out to other people and. Be Able to see the divine in them and able to interact with them in a better way. That's exactly right. Ten hundred thinking of this notion of Holloway and a retreat is terrifying. To so many people yeah, because you know. Who knows what you're gonNA find if you start. Looking into those unexamined corners of your own soul. What if you don't like what you see you know there's a there's a great psychologist that has quote. It takes more courage for a person to examine the dark corners of their own soul than it does for a soldier to ride naked onto a battlefield. Woo Him and I love how vivid that sort of is. In general I'm not. I'm not the Union psychologist. I don't tend to sort of get all excited about the talk of shadows and the shadowy places I. Love and Light Person but I have found that oftentimes we all carry these wounds. Carry this pain inside of us and just because you're not looking at it. It doesn't mean that it's healing so sometimes it can be very helpful, but it's not just wounds that you have in debt unexamined portion of your own soul. There's also wonder and beauty and the presence of the one whatever name you want to give to her or to him. Forgive me because I'm going to take you now into a shadowy place I just. I can't let you go from this conversation. During a pandemic without talking about what I think, is the undercurrent running through so much of our anxiety these days which just? Fear of death fear of our own mortality. which we're not very good at talking about I think as Americans, we really brush it aside as much as we possibly can, but for Sufis. Death is not something to be feared right? It's something they say. We should celebrate like a wedding like a wedding anniversary. Can you explain why that is? And how we can possibly move toward that view because I find that very hard to imagine the death of the people I love most and not just be totally fearful. That's right. That's right and it's one thing if you can somehow. The mystical insight about your own life. That is another thing. If you start to think about the life of the ones that you love the most in this world style also be. I, WANNA be sensitive towards that so I. Think on one hand you know yet, look if we. Look at the only existence that there is being the life of this world. And that the universe and the INS is tied to these finite beings, and that wind is finite, being dissipates. Cornell West whom I love so so much and I I we sometimes when he's talking, you talked about when my body becomes, the culinary delights of terrestrial warms. Unlike thank you for that image, which now it's like embedded inside a by so. But what if instead? You come to realize as the Sufis did. There's this wonderful saying. Been, North African Sufi I think this is staying number, thirty, seven or thirty, eight or something in his collection. In the beginning. Was Gone. And there was none with him. In the end there will be God and it would be not with him. And this is the part that just was your mind. And it is now. As it shall be then. What if In this very breath. Yes you exist. I exist in all of the listeners exist. And the. Multitude the mini ness of existence are like the drops of the notion. And the ocean is always there even if the waves come in under waves, go back out, and even if the water evaporates and falls back on the ocean is rain. It's still the ocean. So! If I can sort of come back to that notion of what if ending? Of Earthly cycle is not an end, but it is the lifting of the veil so that you come to see yourself as always having been inside the divine presence If I can again go back to room me, you know he, he talks one point about you. Spend your whole life knocking knocking knocking at God's store wondering when it will open my friend. You're knocking from the inside. The inside the divine presence, and you're knocking waiting for the door to open. This world this here and now you're already based in God. There is. No place. To Go, because nothing you just outside of God, but coming back to that much more vulnerable place that I think you're trying to have us go to. Your right, there is a sense of fear that is woven into so many of our expenses of death. Not so much about what will happen to me. But what will happen to my left, one's would provide for my left one's. This is why we need a basic guarantee of income and and universal healthcare by the way. It would alleviate some of that pain. Anxiety! But what if we came to thinking about not so much the duration of life? But the quality of our living. I was freaked out recently to realize that my twelve year old baby girl. Who is someone that I love as much as I have ever loved anyone on this earth? Has a bucket list bucket list for twelve year old right? An and contrasting that to conversation that I had with my Bubba was my father. was when he turned eighty. And may God give him. And made a years be filled with Joy Evan. I asked him Bubba for your eightieth birthday. What would you like to have done? And he said nothing. And I said. I mean you're turning eighty and this is a big deal and and said Let me Jen. Got His already given me. The most wonderful companion for life that I've been married to for fifty years at four. Great children have wonderful ranch have spent a life in service to humanity tried never to harm anyone. Is Nothing that I would? Wait for. There's nothing on a bucket list that I have because there's pure. Gratefulness. To live in that sense of gratefulness would certainly at least from me. Remove allowed fear. That is almost all encompassing. In this moment of dynamic, I do think it's true what you said about at least for me I find it way easier to. Come to some canes with the idea of my own death, but the idea of my family members dying is totally. Overwhelming to me, there is a poem that I. Love ads in Roomy in the barks. Translation that I'll just read a little part of it. It's called the sheriff who lost two sons. A great. Shave has lost two sons yet. He is not weeping. His family and his wife wonder at this lack of grief. Do, not think that I am cold and uncompetitive unit. I don't weep. Because for me, they are not gone. The eye of my heart sees them distinctly. They're outside of time, but very close by here, playing and coming to hug me. As people sometimes see dead relatives in dream. I see my son's constantly in this waking state I am even more deeply with them. When I hide for a moment from the world. When I let the sense, perception leaves dropped from the tree of my being. Some attend to individual mercies and some to universal grace. Try to let them merge pond. Water eventually arrives at the ocean. One St. Works and lingers in the lakes of personal life, another place without limits in the sea. So again we have that water imagery you talked about where it seems to be offering the speaker of the poem some comfort to imagine yes, we as individuals, we are individual drops of water, but we merge back into this bigger see. That's an idea that when I was younger, I really hated because I. Don't like the idea of my loved ones losing their particularity, and after death, being unable to advise me and speak to me with that particularity of their unique them nece, but as like an older I find myself a little bit more liking that idea actually because it can mean that. This sort of Condensation. Imagine becoming a missed that permeates my whole world, and then they're not just localized in one particular body in one particular city, but they can kind of be everywhere around me like this kind of watery mist and that is comforting. Every cell in your body is is being changed. So are your memories? Sore your thoughts or your emotions, so our whole being is always undergoing transformation anyway. Death is perhaps just a slightly more dramatic verse, Right Right I like the idea of transformation. Just reframing death is transformation. Romy says what is miserable seed when spring comes that it. Should not be annihilated for the sake of a tree. I like that image? Right the powerful. That's really powerful, and you know he, he says. Everything that you put in the soil grows. Why are you so afraid of when you're GonNa put me in this. Yeah. It's a point of view that I aspire to to hold in my I definitely do not always managed to have that point of view. Yes I'm very I'm mindful of your time and that we've been with you awhile. May I ask you one last question if you have a moment means okay. Just thinking of that wider perspective. What happens if we look at the pandemic from the point of view of being capital be. From a thirty thousand foot view. When we take. US! Wider perspective is all the DAF and suffering due to this pandemic. At some level meaningless, or is each individual one of US extremely precious still, or is it somehow both at the same time? What would? Your favorite Sufis say to that I don't know of any favorite Sufi who would ever. Say That from thirty thousand feet point in the air. That all of this meaningless and I don't know of a God I surely. Don't worship a God for who? Suffering and birth and death and joy in tears are meaningless the God, that I know is. Both end. Yes, to all the above gods. Yes the transcendent majestic Lord of the Infinite Cosmos says universes of the seen and unseen. And of the God who mangoes individuals of a child, and the opening up of a blossom, and the chirping of a bird, and the silence in the solitude so. I would hope to hang on to this notion that. The suffering and the hope and the realization that we can bring into this moment. Is deeply precious and dear to that one. Thank you so much that was beautifully put I. Really appreciate all that you've shared with us I found it very helpful for me personally I. Know Our listeners will too, and if you want to tell our listeners if they would like to find you more of your work, where can they find you? Oh, sure, it's quite easy to find some of these teachings so if they enjoy a listening to things or perhaps even watching them have set up an online platform that's called illuminated courses I'm. They can just go to www dot. ILLUMINATED COURSES DOT com. The first one is unruly, and the second one is on Martin. Luther, King, and I'll comex. And if they enjoy reading been, there's a book that I have of Rumi poetry as well as their teachings of some of these other Sufi stages called radical love fantastic. Thank you so much amid is listeners. Check those out, and it was a pleasure for me to talk to you I. Appreciate it. Listeners thanks so much for joining us. If you liked today's episode, make sure to catch the next one spy subscribing on apple podcasts or wherever you listen. And? Please share this with your friends and family. If you have feedback about this podcast. I'd love to hear from you. You can send me a message on twitter at Seagal, Samuel. Our producer is Jackson. Beer felt the show is edited by Albert Ventura. Our executive producer is Liz Nelson. And this show is part of the VOX media podcast network. visit vox dot com slash podcasts to find more of our shows.

Pain United States Martin King Rumi Iran Seagal Omid Safi Romy professor Bubba Professor Saffy Duke University Samuel Co immed Steffi L. ING official
Healing Chronic Illness Using Chinese Medicine, Ayurveda And Yoga With Lyn Delmastro-Thomson

My Seven Chakras

56:44 min | 11 months ago

Healing Chronic Illness Using Chinese Medicine, Ayurveda And Yoga With Lyn Delmastro-Thomson

"Myzone jeopardize episode three thirty for the Senate Chaplain Swirling vortices of Energy Position Russian throughout the body from the base of the spine to the crown of for thousands of ancient wisdom has been can stop and measure to recycle what are the functions of these energy systems and cook these chuck help you unlike your destiny and find your in purpose welcome to my Senate childhoods and now your host Kumar what's up action of Asia year host and founder of my seven chocolate is a show where we prayed you ancient wisdom inspiring adding stories and action steps that help you transform your life so if you are new to our show then I want to give you a warm warm welcome and before we dive into today is amazing interview. Let me read out our recent. ITN's five star rating and review by a username shop shoot up in the USA. Let's see who writes as an aspiring psychic medium. The vast array of knowledge and experience showcased in this podcast is immeasurably valuable age as a skilled communicator. He takes the show in segments and summarizes. The information offered from the specialists in a way that is easy to digest and remember. I love the raw honesty that goes into the questions and their answers every episode truly. This podcast has changed my life for the better. Thank you so much for what you do and please continue leading the way for those of us who are young and searching wow. What a wonderful wonderful attitude review. Thanks a lot for sharing. Our listeners are definitely the best action. If you live for me to read out your review as well and the process of super simple to my seven jucker dot com forward slash review mice chocolate has dot com slash review right here review but don't forget hit summit and what you do that I'll read out your review to our thousands of thousands of listeners around the world all right so moving onto our guest for today sleep. Our guest is Certified Body Doc Practitioner Speaker and author of the Amazon Bestseller. You are not your diagnosis. She she holds a masters degree in somatic psychology and after being diagnosed with leukemia the age of five she became passionate about sharing with the world hum message that just because a doctor has said an illness chronic are incurable. It doesn't mean that it has to be a life sentence for you. Oh and that Western medicine isn't the only approach to healing and what are the other approaches where you're gonNA find out on today's episode action drive our guest today is Lynn del Mistral Thompson Lynn. Welcome to our show. Thank you for having me trade and are you ready. Inspire totally excited to grid grid <hes> so we also always begin our show with an inspirational court so what does that one <hes> court that you really drop on and how do you apply it in your life so call right now for me comes from a friend of mine who actually passed away last month from cancer and he was one of a very incredible inspirational story of how she journey through that process in her she said what what we do today to make your life count and that was really how she lived her life and especially the life through that during with cancer and for me. That's just that question. Ask myself like what will I do to inspire. What will I do to connect with people. How would it how do I wanNA show up in the world and and grateful to Annabel Golf for that message that she shared with the world on its thanks for sharing action tribe if you're listening if you're watching right now then it's important to take pause to who remark on this particular court which is what will you do today to make the most out of your life? Yes you know maybe you'll have multiple lifetime. We don't know we'll find only when we crossed the moment of truth. Are we experience a moment of truth but the truth is that your service that you're going to have this lifetime and the question is what are you. GonNa do it today to transform your life to take that one step towards a better life in a more self realized life so lynn thanks a lot for sharing that with us now in two thousand and four you're diagnosed with leukemia so firstly wards leukemia and what's the story behind your diagnosis disclosure so leukemia is type of cancer. It's a blood cancer and <hes> so in that journey for me. I was going <music> through Grad School. I was pursuing a PhD in a completely different field from what I do now and I was very miserable. I was miserable from day one of that program and I kind of tried to push through that miserable state of being in ignored a lot of the symptoms that my body I was giving in that I was on the wrong path and then in the summer of two thousand and four I was scheduled to have elective surgery and I went in for the preoccupied work. Mark and I got the phone call the night before the surgery from surgeon and he said there's something in your bloodwork that looks really normal in kind of that feeling of my stomach type dropping because that's a scary thing to hear you think you're just going for elective surgery and now all of a sudden. You're wondering what's wrong. He said don't panic yet it. Let's send you back and have them run the labs again because you know maybe it could be just elaborate or maybe something just was missing their process and I go back run on the same test and he calls and he says it's not allow her. There's something going on and I can't make the surgery you need to just go see your primary doctor and and have hamster to try and figure out what's going on and I don't think I slept a whole lot that night. After hearing that have not dropped in my lap and having no clue because I had zero era symptoms of anything and I was dropped down kind of a two week process of two different hospitals all sorts of specialists all different doctors risk and all these different tests and finally was given the diagnosis of leukemia and that moment I view as just such a shock because I had you know see myself as a healthy twenty five year old woman wasn't the happiest with my life in that moment comment but I didn't see anything relate massively wrong with my health and so I went through this process of actually being treated for that diagnosis for three years and didn't really see a lot of improvement in my health in that time always felt like something was wrong. Went back to different different doctors kept trying to actually see a different specialist at different hematologist couldn't get a referral to one and then finally when I let go oh of that graduate program when I got health insurance somewhere else so that I could basically leave that program and and have medical coverage and saw a different doctor actually found about that was in this diagnosis and I had been treated for that for three years incorrectly and that moment to again just a tremendous indus shock relief of someone finally listening to me and and was saying but there is also a lot of anger why no and listen to me sooner. You're so <hes> you know prior to your diagnosis of leukemia. What was some of the challenges that you're facing on an ongoing basis because he's you said that you seem to have been elite elite but then you're miserable in other words so can you find that pitcher for us yeah so. I think a lot of my symptoms before the time this health crisis more work kind of connected to emotional things and I started getting a had grown up with migraine headaches that I started at age twelve and they had kind of gone away in college each and they came back with a vengeance. I started experiencing more things that panic attacks anxiety depression and all of those things. I was just kind of writing off as you're stressed. You know it's normal to be stressed in graduate school won't it's you know you just have to get through it and there was a part of me that also so just didn't really want to admit that. I was miserable where I was scared to say. I don't know what I WANNA do with my life like I felt like I I'm kind of a person where I like like to have a path that a plan people can relate to that some people in our planners and the idea I'm just saying I don't know what I I wanted to make. y'All just go out and get a job to pay. The bills like there was a part of me that saw that is scarier than going to school. I'm sure there's people that batch. That's crazy ought to go to school. I seventy eight years. <hes> job seems much less scary but for me. I was too scared to kind of be adults in the world. Got It okay so you were going through. <hes> these challenges like headaches that seem to have come back from your childhood and and <hes> some anxiety stress depression and panic attacks as well now like you mentioned you took the blood work and in some abnormalities were discovered. What did the doctor discover so actually since childhood I had a very elevated platelet count <hes> they had discovered that when I was about ten years old and I had some abdominal pain and they thought maybe I was having appendicitis or something like that <hes> but back doc when I was a child they never figured out what that was again. Sent to different specialists coast tour I lived. I was kind of Brogden product at that point and nothing really made sense. There was no diagnosis and so I've kind of went about my life for another fifteen years without ever being a problem and the interesting kind of thing in my story is I always curious you know if I had listened to my body sooner and if I had listened to Peta that knowing that I was on the wrong path aw when my body has had to get so loud with a scary diagnosis right right right so help us understand what Yorkers I didn't pay too much attention to my biology class when I was growing up as a kid awarded. What is the what is the meaning of elevated platelet count would what does that really mean so platelets like like a typo blood cells and they basically help our blood clot so you WanNa have a good number of them right because if you don't have any in you cut yourself you could bleed to death but if you have too many than it means your blood clot too easily so you doubt what class somewhere okay okay? I get it now so that was sort of like a scared that you had as a as a child and then that sort of manifested into the abnormalities that you notice that the doctor noticed in your blood work and so you were diagnosed analyst for three years you you know what did the doctor recommend to you that you felt was not very effective or that. You felt that this is not what I supposed supposed to be doing. So what was indebted respected wrong approach do your diagnosis so without particular type of leukemia which was chronic myelogenous. Ns Leukemia. They put me on a particular medication that was designed to target kind of the genetic cause of that site never had that particular particular genetic mutation and there was. I believe Kinda from research. We did afterwards of what exactly happened. How could they have made this misdiagnosis diagnosis that there was some sort of a lab error whether it was you know the the task was red wrong or whether my sample was fought with someone they were and then they it preceded till monitor and look for something for three years. It wasn't actually there because it was a lab error that initially was used so I actually had something else is going on a different blood disorder that they weren't treating the men were looking at the wrong tasks and treating the wrong thing so I I took this medication that had a lot of side effects which included things like you would experience if you were going through chemo of a lot of nausea upset stomach the <hes> and that was all unnecessarily because I didn't need that particular medication and all of this was because of a leftist yes and I kind of kept saying you know why don't I feel better. I don't I feel better. I would go to the hematologist at who is treating me and would see me. I think maybe every month and I vividly still remember those appointments. I would wait an hour in the waiting Rome. I would go back and I would see him. He would spend less than five minutes with me and I I remember that question that he would ask which was how are you feeling and I would say I feel horrible like I don't feel like I'm improving and he he would dismiss my answer and say to me well. You look great which was not really true because other people have told me I looked terrible and I have lost a lot of way okay. I'll see you in another see you. In a month. <hes> God God well. That's pretty challenging for sure. <hes> you know. I've come across grocer as well right a lot of times as a long line patients who are waiting to see the doctor and the doctor is really connecting with you emotionally energetically. Just you know in a hurry to get stuff done and a lot of times. I was an artist that you feel down that something is not right with you for either either to doctor. Maybe he doesn't care are we does not know how to approach this at the holistic root level <hes> and bishops usually nor the does something omis this something wrong. Okay got it <hes>. So what do you feel now. I mean as you look back. Were some limitations in the Western medical care system I am I think that that story of that. Dr Particularly pointed to one now that not listening that you know he was a doctor who dealt with people with cancer and yet he was only spending few minutes in a visit and not really listening to the answer on important question asking that question shouldn't just yeah check it off your list patient how they were feeling don't really care about the answer the next question you know gave them engage with me as a human in that sense like I'm wow I see you're not doing well. I think some of the other limitations you know just pills in surgery aren't really the only ways to heal something and yet of course those are basically the main tools that mustard doctors have so those server. Sometimes medication can be lifesaving. I'm not somebody that's anti medication completely but it's not something that often gets to the root of a problem this happening. How can we fix and solve the problem is just the usually it's symptomatic in many cases and that's one of the biggest frustrations with kind of western medicine as more problems that you have a fax take another pill for those side effects. Yeah I mean one thing that is clear over here is and I'm sure our listeners are listening to this or maybe watching as well is. We each need to <hes> say that you know we're not doctors. Not The experts and just you know depend completely on the doctor or the expert we need to take control of our own lines and do our own research surgeon and find out an asset questions and and continuously seek to know what is health really right and is it just physical health or is is it you know <hes> the emotions and the energy and the and the taxes were having on a constant basis and if we have that in bliss you know that things will be much better because then we'll know who to reach out to what questions to ask so. I think this is a good topic to be on and like you've pointed out the Western medical system is great it when it comes to trauma and there's a sudden accident you need stitches as blood is losing out in union immediate solution for something right occur tag or something like that. You know you're having a heart attack. The trauma sudden like an accident or heart attack. Yes there's a place for that but when the issue is chronic and is ongoing and as an external external stimuli. That's disturbing you on an ongoing basis daily weekly or even monthly. That's one does a challenge. So what do you feel is the cause for chronic illness now obviously actually one of the examples of leukemia but there are so many other chronic in this as well. What do you feel is a is a cost. I think there's a complexity that it's hard hard to generalize to Everson situation. <hes> I think there seems for sure. One of them would be you know trauma in your past often manifestations illness. If you haven't addressed it seen it healed it. I work a lot with people with autoimmune disease. See that as being a big theme and what manifestos chronic illnesses you know childhood trauma birth trauma actually a huge part of certain types of illness so that would be one theme. I think sometimes our systems are also part of the process of what can show up as disease so we believe the world isn't a safe place than in kind of on the micro level our cells and all of our especially our immune system starts to react to the world in that way of fear itself. Whatever we're thinking in our head is reflected you know on the micro level and I think all of the toxins in our environment how we care for our bodies are we paying attention to approaches to health or we exercising or eating healthy foods all of those things factor actor in to what can become chronic on us so it's complex. It's not a one you know if you have chronic illness. It's because of one thing it's usually usually a combo of a variety of different issues so I should try by hope. You're listening right now. Maybe if you're watching at the moment whether it's replay or even live I see you've got some viewers over here but basically what we're learning. Is that important to especially if you've encountered trauma at some point in your life to express it <hes> you know I would just having a conversation yesterday with the gentleman who expressed that <hes> when he he lost his mom fires back <hes> you know there was no reaction right he was he'd North Grieve or he'd not let it out <hes> air because he did not have the methods is to let go of those emotional stuck energies and be because I think as as as men sometimes we're <hes> you know <hes> Dart to be strong and emotionless and art and North Korea and sometimes you know you have to let go whether you're a man or are women and and it's a it's important right because those those stuck energies will lead Armand in our body and manifest in the in the form of illness or or other other issues belief belief systems are baked like you've mentioned belief systems warfied believe you know is the universe working towards us or against us and then daily care nutrition are are you getting your daily nutritional. Mineral Supplement superfoods green vegetables as well as exercise. Those are those are big. I mean when I go to the gym twice a week. I really look forward to it and as soon as I come art. My whole day shifts so thanks for sharing all of that with us now you work with body talk right. So how did you discover body talk so I discovered body talk about I would say six years ago when I was going through kind of another other than a major health issue but I woke up one day and I started having pain in my left knee and it was very interesting because it wasn't like I had fallen down Allen or anything there was no kind of physical trauma to my knee just won't day my knee hurts and I tried all of the things I was already in the world of holistic ballistic healing and so I was going for massage and acupuncture chiropractic doing movement there be nothing helped and so oh than I remembered that I had met this woman the year before when I was not working and she said she did something called body talk she had kind of told me in that moment what it was and I was intrigued picked by it at a time. I didn't try it and I decided to go and actually try session because the pain actually was going on for about three three months. I couldn't resolve it and my at that point. I knew I wasn't going to start taking pills and trying to make the pain be quiet. I viewed it as something something that I needed to see an address and in that very first session the pain basically completely away but what from bothering me every day almost all day for three months to the pain was gone in what happened in that session was she had asked me. Did you go through something. Traumatic <unk> over the pain came on and it was like a light bulb went on because I hadn't connected what I had went through right before the pain to the pain right before or the pain. My parents had been staying with me. They came from Idaho and they were seeking a second opinion for my dad was kind of going through severe depression anxiety and I had spent two intense weeks being with them trying to get my dad how trying to figure out what was the solution for him and that I just went. Oh Oh I need to start working again and I've taken two weeks off you know as a self-employed person was like get back to work and my knee had been basically trying to alert me for a couple months to the fact that that was extremely traumatic and that I needed to take a little bit of time to process what happened and and to heal it. I went after that first session. I was like what is this magical thing that just happens. How did she do this. How did she know I had been through a trauma and I was just immediately for an intrigued by the experience action action drive. Did you know that thousands of years Buddhist monks have been using a certain type of mushroom called Linesmen along with meditation for Greater Focus and Tom and what if you could in the same way awaken your mind and support your wellbeing every morning by just sipping on some nice heart coffee. Wouldn't that be a music forcing. Forcing medic is a superfood company that specializes in mushroom based drinks for greater energy focus and longevity and I discovered this amazing drink at an energy heating workshop during lunch. I discovered the coffee I got intrigued. I tried out and I've been hooked ever since in the morning. I just <unk> Asom honey some cream and a little coconut oil to my Heart Cup of mushroom coffee and I just sit in silence. It's amazing now. This coffee contains dual extracted acted juggle mushrooms that support your daily immune function it also has wild road ula route that helps reduce stress and because it's made from one hundred percent listened organic Arabic of beans it is just like coffee so why not try this out right because they've extended really special offer for you. Receive Fifteen fifteen percent of your forcing matic budgets go to forcing matic dot com forward slash action tribe or use discount Gord action tribe at checkout. That's F. O. U. R. S. G. M. D. I C. DOT com forward. Slash is C. T. I. O. N. D. R. I. B. or use discount discord action tribe at checkout again four sigmatic dot com forward slash action drive or use discount Gord action tribe at checkout <music> well <hes> by the way our listener Lynn right now as a question and and she says I get a delayed reaction with my emotions come out but much later than when an emotional event occurs. Do you have taught something. That's really interesting. I would be curious you know is it because you're not comfortable fully allowing the emotion to come up in the moment that that might be something that you could kind of explore for yourself <hes>. That's not something that I've necessarily seen as a pattern so I would just be very curious. You know asking asking yourself some questions about how you feel about. Emotions may be look at patterns you know. Is it a certain emotion that that tends to have happen with. You know maybe anger fear. Whatever is there a pattern. Can you find a pattern and then getting curious at is dotted line. I hope that answers your question. <hes> <hes> not coming back to our body talk. If you could tell us about <hes> by the way I just noticed that you will have the same surprise. They spent so little Edwin Cuckoo so what are the origins of <hes> this modality body talk as you mentioned you've written it originates in multiple places right India kind of one person who created did it but he kind of drew from multiple systems to create it so it's bid system created by an Australian man named Dr John Bell Time and he it was originally a doctor of Chiropractic as well as an acupuncturist living in Australia and he created it out of his own process process. He had Epstein Barr that was becoming so debilitating that he couldn't run his acupuncture school many end so he wanted to find out how can he heal aw and he started exploring. He's one of those people who's probably studied just about everything that's out there like every healing system and he took pieces of different systems and has kind of incorporated it into one which is I think part of what I love about the system with the beauty of it is so we can work with them ready insistems in with kind of five elements theory from Chinese medicine. We work with the shocker as part of it as well. <hes> we can work with kind of. Ir vedic principles insoles from kind of Indian medicine traditions and then we also bring in a lot of western science so I'm one of my teachers and mentors is a PhD scientist just who worked on the Human Genome Project turned into a body talk practitioner and teacher. She teaches all sorts of cool things about working with things like EPA genetics so how genes are turning on often expressing which is often at the root of disease and working with things like hormones and our microbiomes all of the good bacteria correa so it's it's a fascinating system that I think has drawn on the best of a lot of different systems and brought them into a unified whole so part of your work you talk about the Chinese fable elements theory as well right so. Could you talk a little bit about that so I'm not an expert in in that particular philosophy because I haven't gone to acupuncture school but it will basically there's five elements there's fire earth metal water and would it and then all of those elements are connected to different organ systems for one and then the organs also represent kind of the five key emotions anger our fear joy sadness grief and worry and we look at kind of imbalances in those particular systems so five elements is a really fascinating joining. US system with a lot of. I have gotten really curious about it. I'm in in fact that's part of where my business name heart fire healing came from because the fire element is connected to the heart and I got really interested in are presented symbolically in why I wanted that to represent my business. Why expansion energy becoming who we are yeah yeah yeah? I mean it's a pretty fascinating. The <HES> <hes> Battle Hills at one can draw between ancient Taoist traditions and I- riddick traditions because both of them you know give a lot of respect and draw from nature like you said Fire Earth Metal Water and word and I think the clue here is to realize is that we are in fact part of the universe and there's a universe within us and the more we recognize this symbiotic relationship <hes> the more weekend you know maybe change based on what's happening around us in nature and ride ride the surf wave of off off the universe toward speak health y tally and balanced emotions as well so so so. Let's talk about you know what you did then. I mean how did you go about healing your leukemia. What does that. I think that you approached so and again. It wasn't healing Kenya necessarily because it wasn't misdiagnosis but healing healing the correct so I would say was about a year into <unk>. The misdiagnosis I know says I started exploring other modalities. I wanted to actually a really dark depression about a year and a half. After I was diagnosed I on my I had another trauma. A friend passed away very suddenly and so I felt like my whole world has basically fallen apart between being told they had routinely in her passing so I began for at that point I started going to therapy because I had so much emotional trauma that I needed to <hes> to talk through through process and then in that actually with working with that therapist she recommended that I go to class that was called Yoga for healing and my first thought when she said that was what are you talking about yoga for healing my exposure to yoga before that had always always been seeing it in a gem. I thought here I am. I'm sick I'm we. My Body doesn't feel good in your bank. Picturing need doing these posters. Were you know like a head stander strong poses and I was like what are you talking about Lady Yoga for healing. She said it's a different kind of a thing. You should go check out this classic promise you it's not what you think. It was a fascinating experience a very powerful one for me because we spent most of the class lying on the floor lying on our backs like breathing support imposes. I fell in love with it. It was very profound for me. I'm to have that space was really develop a new relationship with my body which up until that point for the past year and a half and felt like the enemy like it had betrayed trade me like feel good and here. I had this ninety minutes in space and a container where I could explore like how could my body feel even just a little bit good in that and that was I think there was an emotional healing that happened from that too just to to be present with my body in a new way and then. I just got curious at that point. I started exploring other things I started. I'd never had acupuncture before I decided hey I wanna try. This thing called all acupuncture. I don't know what it's GonNa do but started going for acupuncture. I went back and started seeing somebody who did something call. Oh biofeedback which I had experienced with the Migraines I had as a child and in that process I learned how to kind of regulate my nervous system system how to how to breathes to kind of calm down my heart rate out of bring coherence to my heart rate offending. That's like heart math. I'm hurting out is is actually a type of biofeedback work and I just viewed it as kind of like I had found the door to this room. That had this buffet. Am like all these other things that existed that I had not. I grew up in Idaho. I grew up in a small town. You know like I probably heard of acupuncture and I knew about higher practice but I didn't know about all of these things. I didn't know about energy. Healing you know like I said yielded to me was like yoga. The Gym which Never Brad resonated for me so it was it was fun. It was like a way of just exploring like what can I try like. I became kind of a scientist with my own. You're in the journey. That's amazing so action tribe if you are listening to this right now and think about worn those the things that you'd like to try out in this modest board of alternative healing and medicine because there's so many things that you can potentially try out and doing the sport guys is to expose you to different ways ways of healing your body and in fact item number. One of the most pleasurable experiences that I've had in childhood was when I did Yoga in school because it was mandatory it was part of school and <hes> the best expedience of course was towards the end would deduct of us up was and remember the expedients of <hes> just checking in with different parts of my body and my consciousness all across my body <hes>. I didn't have a word for to describe what that Phoenix was until much later on. I realized that I was actually my consciousness altered my body that I could project my consciousness not only within my body but anyway I wanted aged in a way. was you know this idea. That was deep within my mind that you know somewhere down the line. I might do something in this field which is funny. How life has a way of coming second for sure. I always as a kid. I thought that maybe I would help people. I thought about maybe being a therapist but I awesome deal. I listen at path at that point and I know how I would do that so I was always resistant to <unk>. Sifi had a love of history. I pursued a degree in history history. I love history. You just read school. It was not what I expected. If it's true that's so true I love. I love physics now but when I did physics in school I didn't like it. I love exploring metaphysics. Our loved loved geography. Geography teacher was very she was very nice. I still love geography and even by so in school. They were service subjects that I really enjoyed. It and I feel a large part of it was the teacher you know <hes>. I loved history alive geography. I loved English particularly we did we did we did. Shakespeare Jalousie which was one of my best <hes> favorite you know <hes> bliss a but I think <hes> the teacher plays such a huge role right to make it interesting to engaging yeah yeah. I I think that was part of where my love of history started was. I had junior high history teacher. Who I really connected with than than in high school. I had had someone phenomenal at it was always an area of interest but then I always had it was like the best teachers I ever had were history teachers and so it kind of Fed that love house of ood. This is fun to learn mess instead of who it's. It's a bore to sit in class. That's true that's true so action. Try maybe in the future might start a podcast art ancient history really passionate about India ancient China and sort of <hes> during the connections between everything so maybe in the future so lynn what are some foundations required for a balanced immune system and a balanced life or how should we think about it so for in terms of immune system. I think one of the things is not being afraid of having a little bit of exposure to things like dirt. A little bit of exposure to things is like germs you know we've we've come to that point where everyone has like gone into the hand sanitizers in the antibacterial everything and really ah like that exposure to things is part of our immune system learns and it trains so. I'm really kind of very anti using doing those sorts of things unless you like in a medical situation in a hospital it makes more sense but on a daily basis like let your let your kids play in the dirt. Go out and in dig in the dirt like that exposure is great for your immune system to learn how to healthily engaged with the world instead of becoming nick over active were basically basically kind of for lack of a better word word. Sometimes I think it attacks our own tissue because it doesn't have anything to do and I was the second part of the question. Could you own or just decima guidance of our how to really balance our immune system as well as a balanced slave overall balanced life overall. I think one heavy questions lured quiz. There's so much the foundations were what should we be thinking about. I would think about kind of all aspects of your cell phone so taking care of your body. You know what again what foods are you eating <unk> moving your body getting out getting in the sunshine getting fresh air like all of those basic things that our bodies need basis. What are you doing with your mind. You know like what thoughts are you thinking. Are you consuming things that lift you up or consuming assuming things that produce fear anxiety do sit and watch the news all the time in your life not that you have to be completely completely. Ill informed but how do you what fuel do you put into your mind because our minds are so powerful and then kind of that that spirit piece is like what what's your connection to something bigger whether that be come from a religious tradition or whether you're just kind of spiritual personally. How do you develop VAT ought. How do you support yourself in that area. Is it through like minded people and and doing kind of some different courses and spiritual development. Is it through your own practice through meditation. Let's definitely another a body mind spirit in that sense meditation really addresses. All of those pieces us so kind of examining all three of those areas because we really are. We're not just bodies. Were not just mine so we're not just spirits. Were were all of those together other so true so true. Try Hope you're digging norps or maybe Ashley's absorbing whereas being segregated now. We're talking about the basis or the basics of the foundations that would be required for real balanced life. One is obviously the food that you're consuming be mindful of the type of food that you're having and a lot of times we don't. We don't get all the minerals that we need. We don't get all the white Amin's and our daily nutritional diet so support him to have these supplements as well from time to time whether it's calcium or certain types apps of Light Emmens so that you get the food movement exercise. Chee Gong walks sunshine you know even I aware that teaches us to rise with the sun and and go to sleep with the sun the sun is super incredible in providing as the inspiration as well as the vitamin D to thrive and the tarts thoughts <hes> a are everything I mean I point out to study by Bruce Lipton. Who says that you know our targets? Determine everything hard to determine what type of chemicals are our brain. Secretes are endocrine gland secreting based on the emotions that we experience where we have good emotions. Serotonin of we have cortisol stress emotions or actions are life is determined right by all of that and it all starts with diapers tart that you're thinking thinking so meditation aca dry it all comes back causal Lynn. I'm also learning that you know <hes> on a sub-conscious bases in our life is governed by the habits right whereas Abbott's we even thinking or giving much thought to it. It just happens automatically. What are some bad habits that you've noticed. <hes> the people might have that is creating leading illness or that low energy that that fatigue that one might experience at the end of the day and how can watch replace them with if you shared some later. Oh they're so bad habits. I mean gene could be kind of how you're spending your time. You know like for me actually I. I'm doing myself a little bit of a cleanse of not being on facebook as much because I've noticed my the house around it. Power you engaging with the world is it can be a good thing or it can be we have it's an unconscious patterns. <hes> habits in terms of getting. Senate sedentary in our lives could be another thing like instead of thinking. Oh the end of the day. Maybe I'll oh cal. I've sat at my desk for so many hours. Maybe I'll go for a walk. We get into that habit of all. I'm tired. I'm just GonNa get on the couch now city she now who put on Netflix or whatever you kind of thinking what does my body need in the small met like how could they move of a little bit because we are such a society that sets all the time right and then I think there's habits of the mind to you in terms of like do we focus our energy and our conversations on positive things or do we get into the complaining of it. I'm is another big area that in your out of people can get into. It's like you what went wrong in the day instead of their gratitude for what what went right what you're excited about <hes> <hes> yeah yeah I mean social media talk something that <hes> getting more and more into because it's <hes> <hes> it's funny that we've not had social media long enough to be able were to understand the long term consequence also should on the mind and the body it's crazy but <hes> we don't even realize it but automatically we're on youtube or facebook or Instagram instagram. And how do we get addicted. Dopamine hits of those likes or comments and we you know and that's not good so like you pointed action once in a while. You started take a social media dogs. Maybe it's for a couple of hours that you hide your phone. Somewhere appraised complicated password that you don't really remember are just go away from your phone your phone dissolve your phone right because you'll realize <hes> once <hes> once you're away from like disconnected from the word. Sometimes it's good it to be disconnected. You will be connected with your own selves so that's great that people can try out and of course <hes> going away from that sedentary lifestyle that you might or might not be leading a small walk. I've read walk sometimes can be more beneficial than a run because sometimes depending on the age of the person around might put a lot of pressure right on the ligaments and in the bones of person especially on an ongoing basis but walk does not put that much pressure engine combined that with some nice breathing deep radian debris brief debrief out <hes> it can really be a pleasure experience <hes> and then like you said Tarts tart starts. It's hard to let go of those. <hes> parts at one might be having deep within the mind but what I found is possible is <hes> is baffled. Just the affirmations that you can have on on a daily basis or identify formations. You know what I mean the evening. I'm doing this thing of you. Know writing on your affirmations wherever you want to manifest and doing that two times every night for thirty days and I'm on Day number twenty nine close if you miss just one day you go to Peter from stock and I started three times now. Here's somebody's not fourteen. I'm like really I got to start from but it sort of builds it builds a habit and it goes into your subconscious mind so wonderful. Thanks a lot for sharing. I'm sure our listeners are getting getting some ideas. Some nudges some hints on the Dick and try out in their own lives but the truth is that it all starts at one step at a time. Don't let it burden orwell. Mu Linda's solidify shared this technique from which technique with Lennon. She says she's on sixteen. Keep going Lynn. Don't you don't give up. You need to get the data because it's awful. That's how the subconscious mind learns is to repetition and practice and you can do it. So what is it one action steps that you would like to recommend for our listeners based on the conversation that we're having I think one of the most powerful things you can do is just taking time to start listening to your body so one of the things I find the either with people with chronic illness or just you know anyone is we get sometimes annoyed by I different symptoms that we have in our bodies. We get irritated and frustrated and of course then there's the conditioning like our our medical system. Just take tylenol Alan. You have a headache instead of like. Maybe I could be curious why to a headache. Do I need some more water. Have I sat too long at my desk. Like what is what's the underlying root of that because I always tell people you know. Your body doesn't have words to talk to you. Your body aw has sensations symptoms paying things like that. It can't say to you. Hey excuse me I need some water right now really dehydrated me so if you could take one step on a daily basis that I think would completely change your health and your relationship to your is just to take that time to get quiet. It doesn't have to be anything super fancy. Just take some deep breaths. Take a woman take just get centered in present and then whatever area that feels like. Maybe you're feeling feeling uncomfortable. I'm having some symptoms with just ask the question like what. What is it trying to tell you. What's its message to you and in the beginning getting people who've never done that before. You don't feel like you hear a message and I would say keep doing it because you will start to get a message. It's kind of like your body sometimes in the beginning goes. Did you really WanNa now like you've never asked me this question before. Do you really WanNa know eventually. You'll start to get that and sometimes it sounds like something like you'll you get something. That feels like it's like. Are you sure that's the message and just trust one comes through yeah. I find that it's sort of like dreams right. When we have a dream cream most often we tend to forget it. It's like we went to the other side of the river on the other banks we came back and we can't see the other side of it clearly but the more all that we write it down <hes> the more that dream is like okay so you're taking a seriously now right now. We're GONNA help you were fourteen year dreams so that you it does not just saw same way seems like the dream and the Bardi they're working in Sync Duke. Send us a messages and some nudges some piece of information that we might might need to me. You know <hes> become our best cells. It's actually drive to access the show notes for this episode all the information all the league's eggs out for this particular episode seven. JUXTAPOSE DOT COM forward slash three thirty four seven CHAKA'S DOT com slash three thirty four or you can go there and you can access all the information from this particular episode and if you're enjoying the session so far then make sure on your iphone you hit the subscribe. Could I button all right the subscriber because if you don't then we'll keep on releasing three new episodes every week and you'll be out of touch six months down the line. You'll send me an email and you last me. I five stopped my podcast and I'd be like no episodes but you've not subscribe yet so make sure that you subscribe to our show on your iphone. The wound life is the place where the light enters you now. This is an amazing court by Rumi. Everyone seems to like Rumi Courts but this is probably one of his best the wounded in someplace or the other some of these physical wounds for sure because data deserted scars but most of them are emotional that we've had had since childhood and sometimes the presence of these wounds might make us feel sad or incomplete or incapable right but remember the expedience is what makes you the experience is. What makes you so just because you had that experience. It doesn't mean that you can't do something about it. In fact that wounds what is really going to help you shine a light of hope to the world around you because just like Rumi said the wound is a place with a light enters. You remember once you have the light you gotTa Pass. The torch passed the baton and that's that's. That's the whole point so talk to us about a time. When you experienced a difficult situation life challenge you know what did you do about it. And how did you overcome while obviously this is the story I told them of going through that help journey would be one key area resonate with that story of or the quote about the wound because it really <unk> inspired me to not just see myself as a victim of what had happened to me but I saw it as something that had happened kind of for me. How could I take what had happened and transformed my life and give my life meaning and for me I viewed it as a wake up. Call viewed it as putting me on my right path because I realized I did have a passion for for kind of holistic approaches to healing hopping all he all so that not to me it was kind of putting me on that path and letting that wound kind of let the light end in shine the light on Oh. I'm completely in the wrong place at this path doesn't do anything for me. Where do I WANNA go. Where do I want out late to shine. Got It so action tribe. I hope you're enjoying today's episode so so far. We're not done yet but team. Today is chronic illness how you can <hes> takes these small steps towards a more healthy and balanced life. <hes> and I'm sure you've learned to a new thing today. We're learning that. No one is perfect and we will arrive where we are today. Because of certain actions that we've taken certain habits Sarah thought patterns emotions or maybe some behaviors and just like we let ourselves you re are going to get ourselves out of this because as weekend but in order to take that four step we need to be truthful and radically honest with ourselves because as someone put you are strong wrong when you know your weakness your beautiful when you appreciate your flaws and you are wise when you learn from your mistakes because there's nothing wrong in making mistakes having flaws are having these weaknesses were more important is what are you gonNa do about it so we are now uh on the wisdom round which is strong for today so then what is the best ways that you have received. I think in the healing journey learning that if something didn't work for me like that didn't mean anything about other possibilities of something working and that's the thing that I love to share with other people you know there are are hundreds probably thousands of approaches to healing out there and if one doesn't work for you keep going like keep trying things because that one thing might not be your thing but you know you could try a couple of other things and you will find your the things that healthy out so don't give up basically just keep keeping curious and if you could turn back time and spend one hour with someone who is currently dead or living who would that sesikwe. Washington currently living. I would love to get to know Dr Jody Spun Zone or I love his work and I would love to like have a deep conversation conversation with him about that philosophy that he has which rests very much on what we've been talking about. How you know the power of our minds our consciousness I got it and what do you do like. What does it one thing that you currently do in the morning or maybe in the evening before you go to sleep that has enhanced the quality of your life so for me? It's usually the morning and it's kind of having a regular meditation practice every day before I can get my day really started dotted got it and finally what is it one book that you'd like to recommend for our listeners. I would go back to Joe Dispense again. I would say his new book. Becoming supernatural for natural is phenomenal. I would recommend that Book Awesome Selection Dr. Would you like to receive this book becoming supernatural for free. That's what I'd bigger. AUDIBLE DOT COM loves listeners and they're offering you one free audio book download with a Free Thirty Day trial so that you can get to check out their service because the truth is that listing the new reading and if you're listening to this podcast then I'm sure you would agree and I love my articles which are on my phone all the time and so you can have many of them. <hes> each get a new credit once you become a member but for now you can get one book for free becoming supernatural to try this out to get your first article. Seven CHAKA'S DOT com forward slash free book mice seven JUXTAPOSE DOT com slash free book to start listening to becoming super. Were naturally so lynn. Thank you so much for joining us today before you go. Tell us one thing that you're grateful for and how do we find you online today today. I'm grateful for my furry friends. My animals we have a puppy and a kitten that I just see so much joy in watching them play and you so you can find me. My website is heart fire healing. LLC Dot Com and you can get your free gift. If you slap our Ford Slash shocker. We'll have that link of the show. Nord's action tribe. If you have listened so far it means that you really enjoyed today's session if you can if you can afford four to make sure you give a donation so that you can support our moment because we really really depend on your support. Mice <unk> DOT com forward slash support myself chuck US dot com forward slash support. If you're an instagram I know many of you are in unison to our show in transit or in the lawn or some of it outdoors. Take a screen shot or a photo of you and me on instagram. My instagram handle is at my seven chuckers act seven chocolates and finally question comment observation. Some expediency would like to share with me about this episode and make sure you share it on. AJ At my seven chocolate dot com email me eighty at my seven chuck dot Com and linen. Oh so wonderful teacher attitude connect with you and thanks for sharing your story because many of our listeners are going through a chronic illness challenge <hes> <hes> and difficulty in it can be a very hard situation to be in so thanks a lot for helping us and taking us one step closer to a human revolution. Thank you for having me awesome. Thanks everyone we're going to end this broadcast right here. Thank you for listening listening to my shot at my son. Chuck Dot Com s. e. v. shoppers dot couch.

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