19 Episode results for "Ross School Of Business"

The Quicken IPO, Explained

Daily Detroit

25:42 min | 1 year ago

The Quicken IPO, Explained

"I think this could be really good I mean if they could build over the next ten or twenty years. A second company that is successful as quicken. That would be pretty good for Detroit. That's the voice of Erik. Gordon a professor at the University of Michigan's Ross School of business. Today's episode dives into Dan. Gilbert's quicken loans or rocket companies is going to be called moving forward filing for an initial public offering on the New York Stock Exchange. It's not all that often. That happens here in Metro Detroit, so we wanted to dive in with an expert to understand the ramifications for both the Company and Detroit the city and we'll unpack it with a couple of our own thoughts afterward. This is your daily Detroit for Monday July Twentieth Twenty. Twenty I'm Harris days and I'm spend Gustafsen. Let's just get to. Fester Gordon Welcome to Detroit Oh. Glad to be here, so bedrock didn't really specify its goals, but what would be the reasons for a company like bedrock to go public I mean this is a company that we found out thanks to its SEC. Filings earned eight hundred ninety four million dollars in twenty nineteen, which seems like things are going pretty good for you. They don't have to go public. They're not desperate for money. The way a lot of these little biotech companies that try to go public. They go public because they're running out of money and they need the cash. Bedrock certainly doesn't need the cash today. You go public for a couple of other reasons. One is to make it easier to get cash in the future when you might need it and I think all of the vid slash. Economic uncertainty has led a lot of companies that don't need cash today to do something to either pile up cash that they can't possibly spend in the next year just to have it on hand or to make sure they have access to cash if they might need it in the future, and you know if you think back to the financial crisis, you can understand why bedrock or or any of these other companies would do it because during the financial crisis, great companies companies that used to have banks begging them all lend you. Some money couldn't get their hands on ten cents. Liquidity froze. I think a lot of companies learned their lesson so I think bedrock was doing something safe looking towards the future, and then there's the question of flexibility and liquidity for Dan Gilbert. You know he holds a lot of assets better, not liquid. This could be a step towards more liquidity for Dan in his family. When you say that Dan Gilbert owns many non liquid assets for example well, this was one before you know before it went public. This is not liquid is real. Estate assets are not particularly liquid. You can't sell real estate or a lot of it quickly. He has a lot of real estate in located in one city, so he has a lot of wealth I. Guess You could probably sell the cavaliers pretty quickly. There'd be a lying to buy even the cavs. My guess is that Dan's advisors have been whispering in his ear for quite some time. You know looking forward you need to think about. Liquidity and you know his more recent health incident may have made him listen a little bit more carefully to them. Well one of the that I wanted to explore with that because covering his real estate, one of the problems he sometimes phased, is that even he has trouble accessing lines of credit for his projects and a lot of things he's had to sell finance, and then off load to banks, and the like. Once you know it's already built, or it's already least up to a point and I know. Know that that's something that's been a little bit challenging with doing his his projects. Whereas in a lot of other cities, you kind of can arrange `financiers in different ways before you get started with Dan's Detroit. Work a lot of it has been you know cash over the barrel head, and it's been his money doing it. Yeah, that's the Detroit offense you know real estate projects like the ones Dan. Does. You know not a SLAM DUNK IN DETROIT? Detroit still seen as very risky place to invest in real estate. Which makes what? Dan has done in Detroit and his commitment to Detroit. All the more remarkable because you know as you said if you were building in pre cove it if you were building in New York or Chicago or Los, Angeles. The banks are falling all over themselves to lend you a hundred and two percent of the value of the building as opposed to Dan having to go out on the line until he can show that the building can be stops. Oh. You, know brave guy, kind of the only kind of person who could succeed in the Detroit real estate, so the proposed IPO would give Dan, Gilbert speaking of which seventy nine percent of the combined voting power of the common stock is that common for a company founded a write in provisioned like that, and and why is that significant? It has been surprisingly common in the last decade, and it has given rise to some controversy. So you know sometimes it's turned out great, and sometimes it's turned out the terribly you think about when Travis County Nick was in control of Uber. That didn't end well Adam Newman at we work. Didn't end well, but sometimes it ends really well think of the Google. Guys, you know they. They were in control. Basil's in control. This idea of you go public, but keep control, or if you're an investor, you're on the other side of the table. You Buy Stock in a public company and you have no control. The founders still has control. Have to have a lot of confidence in the founders, abilities and that the founder doesn't turn out to be. Some kind of Looney toon sort sort of guy. How will going public change the company? I mean we're actually we're talking about several companies here obviously and how they do business. Yes, so they put quicken the big company quicken loans into it, and then his grab bag of companies that related to the business that quicken does, and they'll be a couple of changes one. They're going to have to reveal the finances and a lot of other details in ways they never had to do. Every quarter they're going to file extensive reports with the SEC and even longer one once a year, and you know you and I. All of your listeners can go on the web and look that up, and it will include things including people salaries so they'll be revealing a lot of information that they were able to keep private. They'll be under a lot more a lot more scrutiny. They're gonNA spend a lot of. Being a public company because the kinds of audits, the kinds of legal fees that you end up paying you know million plus dollars a year, so it's it's a new expense that they didn't bear but I think the the big thing in this case. Is they're. GonNa lose their privacy, because Dan is keeping control as you mentioned seventy nine percent, which is really total control. Giving up control, but you know when you're a private company, you enjoy being private. Yeah, it definitely gives you some specific advantages you know dealing with your competition. Dealing with you know the kinds of projects that you're working on. You know for me. One of the questions that I look at when I went through the documents, is it? It's clear to me that they're really looking to expand their lines of business in a major way. This isn't just to throw out more. More home loans out there. It seems like they've got some. What seemed like nascent lines of business now, but could be really big deals. You know this is a long term play. Which of course is how you know? Dan I mean. All of his real estate plays are long-term place quicken. Isn't this overnight thing where you know three years ago? It was valued at one million dollars. You know some of silly stuff we see. It's been around for a thirty to thirty five years. And they really dominate home loan business our number one so when they're looking expansion. They're doing what I teach. My students in a strategy Karszai. Wow, well looking for number one in home loans. How do we use that to build ancillary businesses? Businesses were our strength in the home loan business are reaching a home loan. Business gives us an advantage, and let's build some other big businesses, and that's what they're up to clearly there. Thinkers they're investing in the future. They've asked themselves the question of what happens when we have so much market Sharon home loans that it's no longer a growth rocket. What what's next rocket? They're clearly all over that so thinking about this pressure to always be growing to be focused on the next quarter, and and the financial results and delivering returns to investors. What's that GonNa mean for the twenty thousand employees at the bedrock companies. You know I mean many of them. Frankly our listeners of our show so I think they're going to see very. Very little changes that may be a beneficial one. Here's why I think they're not going to be too affected by those typical public company pressures where management makes decisions which optimize the short term so that they get to keep their job and kind of toss out the long term. And then when they hit too bad quarters in a row, the top brass save their jobs by firing. Everybody else and saying look. Here's my turnaround plan on firing. Everybody. Who's not me I? Don't think people at rocket at quicken need to worry about that because. Dan's not worried about losing his job. The top management aren't worried about losing their jobs and activists investor can't show up and rattle their cages and scare them and get them thrown out because Dan has control so the fact that Dan, his kept control, and has been the guy who's had control along means I think the employees should expect. Pretty much the same that they've seen in the past, but with one possible upside, some of them could actually get stock options now and be paid in stock and participate in the upside equity of the company in a way. That wasn't possible when it was private. So you know if I were working at quicken I would think Oh. This might be pretty good. Yeah, I have a thought along those lines. We talked about the employees, but what about the city in general you know you look at cities like Charlotte that have been able to grow at insane paces, due to the financial sector, and seeing a company like quicken or I guess they're officially wanting to be called now like rocket or rock seeing this kind of move looks like an expansion of those services, and maybe even expansion of things that could be offered here in Detroit, you know I, think for Detroit's comeback to be sustainable. We need more than just one superstar company. And how could this impact the city long-term? Well, this could be great because. We haven't been successful at attracting big businesses to come in. You know years ago. Chicago attracted Boeing's headquarters from Seattle. We haven't had much luck with that, so you know what you have to hope. Is that companies like I'M GONNA? Keep calling it quicken 'cause. I've always thought it quicken that that companies like quicken one stay headquartered here don't move Texas or anywhere else, and that they keep growing so the fact that they have given us a peek. What their thoughts about growth are, and the fact that at least I think those thoughts make a lot of sense. Sense, I think this could be really good if they could build over the next ten or twenty years a second company that is successful as quicken well, that would be pretty good for Detroit and do you expect that you know some of Dan? Gilbert sort of side work that is to say some of the things that are not central to the business of quicken loans off his real estate, and you know I think they're still involved in some venture capital activities and things like that that those are going to be affected, pro or con, from this IPO. I think those things will continue forward I. Mean I Matt Colin. who was running the real estate side and That's really inside Dan's heart. He's not going to stop doing that and you know Jake Cohen and others at Detroit venture partners in the venture arm. They've built a good team. JAKES, one of my former students and Dan's heart really in that too I mean this is the Entrepreneur's entrepreneur so I think we won't see any changes there. You know you worry about when a company goes through a change like going public willie still be. Be Able to be involved civically. Well Dan wasn't control he still in control, public companies can be as volved civically as they want to. When I was a little kid, I lived in Midland, Michigan and Dow, chemical companies a public company, and it was very involved in good to the community, so the fact that one piece of his business big piece of his businesses gone. Public doesn't mean we should worry about any changes on the downside. You've presented very optimistic view of this whole. Move to going public and everything I wonder like. Do you see any big risks for bedrock? The risks when you go public is the litigation risk when you're a private company, your own by very small group of people, not only a few people who get angry and you typically work it out. When you go public, any of your thousands or tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of shareholders can sue you, and in fact, there's a whole group of lawyers. The Plaintiff Securities Law Bar, cruising around, and if you have a disappointing quarter, they can't get. Anybody fired but what they can do. is file lawsuits claiming some kind of securities fraud so public company spend just even the best up and up. Public companies just regularly. Spend money swabbing down these. Nuisance lawsuits so. That's an annoyance I I don't know that it's really going to be a danger, but everybody will have down quarter quarter or two, and you can be sure somebody will convince somebody to bring a suit and sue them, so you know that's just unavoidable. What I was. GonNa ask about one of the other companies that is in this kind of their whole like. Family of companies stocks. That's been you know corn that's gotten a ton of press at a ton of traffic and a ton of attention. Do you think a successful IPO? Here could portend well for other companies in this group, or or does that not affect it? Or what do you think around that? Yeah, you know it could happen. I. Mean took what thirty or thirty five years to take quicken public, but for Stock Act or something else which could be spun out as public I think if the spirits for. For Management and for Dan is positive if he isn't to aggravated by and how having public company Yeah we could see one of the other successful growth engines also spin out as a public company. What is your sense? Finally of the kind of response? That's IPO is likely to trigger from Wall Street. Do you think it'll be successful? And is it all noteworthy that this IPO? Will you know we don't know exactly when it's going to happen? But presumably it's going to come during the coronavirus pandemic, which has obviously. Shut. A huge swath of the economy Ya and you have to wonder you know what it's doing for. Home loans I i. don't really know whether it's affected home loan. Some people might be financing houses. To Predict Town IPO will do which I often try to actually try to predict it, and it's really hard because there are two factors, the factors that the company controls and then there's the the market stuff what's going on in the market, some other loan company, some other insurance company reports bad results, and all of a sudden people are worried about you or coronavirus cases go up, or something happens with China, so they're all of these things are nobody's control, and which are unpredictable their. Hazardous things falling on your head make it tough to predict the part where analyst will look at the company that part's going to go very well, because this is not a speculative company. This isn't a company where its entire value depends. On this drug that they haven't proven anything, it isn't dependent on them. Proving that it does cure cancer, which won't happen for the next four or five years, and if they can't prove that the companies worth zero, it isn't one of these platform companies where they make more and more revenue and twice as much more losses. This is star, really solid, long-term profitable company, so when analysts look at it, and when the investors you know, investors that pension funds and insurance companies, big investors who buy big amounts of the stock. Look at it. They're going to say wow, this one looks good. Because there's upside, there's growth. There's a growth story. It's not run by a twenty eight year old ego maniac. Long History Trust Management I think for whatever's under the control of the company. It's GonNa. Go really well fascinating stuff eric. Gordon is professor at the University of Michigan Ross School of business professor. Thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate it. It was my pleasure. That, was a great conversations fan. I'm really glad that we had it, but it just. I mean I don't know about you, but it gives me a lot of things. Yeah, you know I would say that Professor Gordon certainly offer a very upbeat assessment of the situation I think you know. He justified his arguments very well. You know I'm GonNa, just kind of play a little bit of Devil Devil's advocate here in a way and let me qualify by saying that I've never worked for a publicly traded company, but I've certainly read a lot of stories about publicly traded companies and sort of you know some of their internal machinations and everything. And there is no doubt that once you go public, and you know you get investors you know who who owns stocks and everything that there's going to be enormous pressure to quarterback topics right like the short term becomes You know in many times more important than sort of longer term goals. You hear stories all the time about publicly traded companies. You know there's frantic emails from. Company leadership to all employees. You know trying to rally the troops because we're in danger of not missing are targets for you know our upcoming first-quarter reports and everything like that. You know I will say that quicken loans, which is sort of the biggest piece of this family companies has really been known as a place at at least in certain departments around the organization. There's been a lot of churn. You know people have cycled in and out of their relatively quickly. There's certain departments. Hiring because they just don't seem to be able to keep people for very long for whatever reason and I can't help wonder if that is a trend that will see increasing as a result of this that said I mean. You, know as far as I know in correct me if I'm wrong here, but I am not aware of any like mass layoffs that have taken place inside the quicken loans. Family of companies in recent years despite the churn. They're not eliminating positions. It's just people quitting, and then they you know hire new people to take their place, but the overall employment levels seem to be pretty stable going public, if they inevitably miss a quarter or two of you know stockholder and analysts expectations that could change that. Went from multiple conversations there parts of the. Empire the quick and empire that are pretty high pressure situations where it's the churn comes from you know high performance in short times needing to make numbers that kind of thing that's just kind of the culture and a lot of Based businesses and financial. You've got targets ahead and all that kind of stuff that said. I see what the professor was saying around the leadership being stable, but my thoughts are once you start getting stock options into the mix. You might have a culture where the people the top might be secure and feeling safe, but people down below they might be you know when you start looking at things that have stock target. If you look at your own stock and seeing the stock, go up or down depending on performance that I've seen that impact people's. People's decisions I've not worked for public company before, but I have worked with companies who have on a very regular basis and interact with them, and it is interesting to see how people's decisions start to change when they start to get fixated on that stock number so I don't think it'll necessarily impact the people at the top, but you're middle and below. People just can't help, but look at that stock price number it just. They just become fixated on it. But my thought on this one's then. is a little different, and it is more on the civic side with with this whole thing. one of the things I've mentioned on this podcast before is that I don't think Detroit really knows what growths look growth looks like if you think about places like Charlotte, you think about places in the West and the southwest, well outside of Corona Times. The population growth is insane, and we don't know what that kind of investment growth that kind of thing things that are normal and other cities feel like hyper fast right here because of the big void, and I caught on something that the professor talked about was the idea that what if this empire doubles? What if the business doubles? Yeah, you know. What does that footprint look like think about how much change has been in the city now and then you double that or even let's say they. They had fifty percent of that. That's a huge. It's a large amount of construction that would need to be done. That's a huge amount of. That's a large influx of residents all that kind of stuff. Stuff, and then you've got the spin off businesses you start having people who used to work there. Start start business of their own, and you have vendors and things like that. It just changes the landscape of you know that corner of the city, even more yeah, and I think it's key to, and we talked about it with Professor Gordon. The you know seventy nine percent control of voting that Dan Gilbert has secured I. Think is key and I. Don't remember if it was the free press or the news, but they wrote about how this is essentially a hedge. Maybe they even spelled it out in the SEC documents. I don't remember, but but it's a hedge against any efforts to essentially get. The rocket companies to relocate outside of Detroit as as a lot of investors will probably be want to do because they look at Detroit and they just think it's you know sort of outmoded, and it's just an old industrial economy. SORTA mindset you know you. You talked about that a lot with ribbon and that was frankly something we saw several years ago. Remember with. With with compuware, investors Oh yeah, as soon as compuware loss local control. They were out. Yeah, I mean they faced a huge You know backlash from from an activist investor who thought that the company was being mismanaged and and needed to move out of Detroit and I mean you know compuware really doesn't exist in in name anymore. I think I don't even know. It's under some other names now, but it's. It's a shell of its former self. Well. That's all for today. Show thanks to our members. Including Emily Lindsay Catherine Christopher Ben Lin and stare for supporting your daily Detroit by the way we now have a button right on the front page. DAILY DETROIT DOT COM. That links to Patriot dot com slash daily, Detroit where you can become a member. We're also considering custom. Detroit made masks as a member reward. They would say something like daily Detroit. Did have are beautiful shield logo? Interested in that, let us know email us daily Detroit at gmail.com with that I'm jared days and I'm spend Gustafsen. Take care of each other and we'll get through this together.

Dan Gilbert Detroit quicken SEC Professor Gordon professor Gustafsen New York Charlotte analyst Erik cavaliers Chicago University of Michigan Google compuware Ross School of business
Episode 12_Suman Mishra_Sr VP_Mahindra & Mahindra

Executive Moms' Stories

15:39 min | 2 years ago

Episode 12_Suman Mishra_Sr VP_Mahindra & Mahindra

"The hub hopper originals hello friends who welcome to the podcast executive mom's stories this. This is not an ordinary business podcast but this show is with ordinary people who are making an extraordinary efforts the working moms who are juggling to balance at work and home today on executed mom stories so mishra challenges have been trying to blend the well can in life in a harmonious way the most difficult. I'm obviously when i go back to work where it might give us four months old so that <hes> that <hes> two gold mental toll on it someone senior vice president group strategy at mahindra and mahindra she was recently chosen for forty dollars forty leaders by my economic times a mother of four years jangle based out of mumbai having sixteen years corporate experience with companies like mine ryan mind cipla mckenzie and accenture she did m._b._a. From ross school of business michigan and computer engineering from end to using upper high someone welcome to the podcast executed lump streets. We are so excited to have you on this podcast today. I'm before we get started. Heartiest congratulations for taking you to think nommik thanks for being so. How are you doing. Thank you got it the kids. I'm doing very good and thanks for having me me on the phone because your expedience of making it to the list of forty fourteen <hes> list that is largely curated. Take a knee and <hes> judy decide so it's not <hes> something that you know we compete for <hes> <hes> <hes> apply to cry sachin expedient so <hes> getting on the list is <hes> i i didn't have much of a expedient but once i got on the list are the eventual fabulous i got an act with a lot of <hes> other people who we're on the list and also made the judy and all of it <hes> was just a beautiful expedience of which happened very recently as a working mom what had been your most challenging times while raising your data i have been quite fortunate to have a wonderful support system <hes> and also have the ability to pay for a support system and he did it but i guess the biggest challenges have been trying due blend the work and life in a harmonious way the most difficult time obviously was when i go back to work when mikey was four months old so that <hes> that <hes> took its own mental toll on it <hes> but that's someone who has always has a professional installation always worked there was no alternative but it wasn't hard to leave a <hes> full month old at home and get back to work <hes> so that was tough off and then i guess the <hes> second. I guess the days is when he'll try illicit when you have a big important meeting. Can you really wish to be home with your kid those stuff they would say <hes> on average. I have been able to you know executive. It'd be not that i have to be able to be there for my child on on <hes> the difficulties but that updates when you just when you something is gonna do the a new daily just cannot miss it and then <hes> you have to be away and find those the very challenging ones and how do you handle those challenging being base or challenging times. What's the kind of plan that you prepared. You know that can help you in overcoming that challenge alright. I guess i guess security anyone to be successful at work and really have a tightening life as you need to be very very organized and very structured in how you approach this so <hes> one thing is. Let's say <hes>. I haven't imaginative trip and the end of the month okay good <hes>. Let's say i have it in them. Which i incidentally do have now <hes> when i bet trip and i obviously have advanced notice because i might is landed then i would make sure that <hes> hopefully my petters. My husband can be home for that would be of i <hes>. I do have a full time. Living hell like my need was the good part of my life but <hes> we have a rule that <hes> if unite night one of the parents has to be home so we don't <hes> you know so we always says or with your kid every night so if i had been planet and then then my parents come in and just spend like a couple of weeks three weeks whatever <hes> has made those types <hes> and other times you may go use your louis part time you go home early. Come back early whatever it takes <hes> but <hes> it's really a blend. It's really <hes> you know. It is <hes> so it's just a goal mission that has real pissed tonight. It's about it. I mean it's not a fifty fifty balance. It's auto mixed together can be a page so you have to sort of really blend the focus on life to focus on the focus on health focus on <hes> on all of this focus on your family because most of the family than just the mother right all along you know really <hes> issues in <music> mix it over the course of months days and years okay so you have worked with essential supplies mackenzie now eminem so how do you see women fitting into deferrals controls across companies in diversified feeds. How do women featured restaurant. I mean i guess i fundamentally believe this. Man can view <hes> given <hes> the opportunity in it so <hes> why didn't accenture and mckinsey consulting firms the role of vending of any noise to just follow and get up to participants <hes> which that are subject of this <hes> in like <hes> <hes> that are i'm an even men in the executive board <hes> that are most i think three or four remained in the senior most ranks of the company and also as well on the factory floor in the most of the packaging lines in manufacturing in pharmacy to defense companies run by women lots of medical affairs quality cetera stuff so that have been given enough pharmaceutical industry in eminem wet. It is a lot more sort of manufacturing oriented business and <hes> the few woman in <hes> <hes> the manufacturing but my grandma has you know has large number of companies like club mahindra raindrop mahindra. Life's pace is my <hes>. <hes> logistics minded so now all of these that women in different levels and functions so it is my view that <hes> you know once you set your mind to get it done then you will reach the destination. Oh what does it take for women to break the glass ceiling and shackled the barriers in power corridors. You know talking about who many executive position so. What does it take to to break that ceiling and reach that position. I think perhaps uh a lot more confidence and i'm the woman but did you think risks right. <hes> i must be willing to raise my hand when the opportunities i've thrown at me <hes> <hes> <hes> and <hes> creating a network of mentors the doctors and other leaders who can <hes> both thousand meantime so they might have difficult decisions to make who can give me feedback and also not yet the opportunities for me so in my sense these fuel tanks supported by all the kids who are liberal capability to deliver will definitely have the big glass ceiling as a working mom. What do you miss the most and how do you compensate for that. <hes> i dorm pink. I miss much actually <hes> i i just i'm not the kind of person who until i miss. There's i missed that i say you. I'm just not the kind you know i. I and i also don't like necessarily. The you know the working mom. I'm i work at home and i do everything they can to ensure that spend as much time with the judge and take a <hes>. I think i missed much much admits more having more vacations irish as a family we could take more time off and on since <hes> between my spouse nice take my kid. That is the one thing that i want to improve on because i feel that when you're in the vacation when you're relaxed from the stresses of the day to day working you could need bond and better family so we do take a couple of vacation every year but i feel like <hes> we have shifted more. You know more shorter breaks or maybe maybe even longer vacation in the so i don't family i feel that that gives me a chance to connect my family with my child and a lot more focus kind of with otherwise <hes> you know everyone has a choice to make and everyone has to follow and i feel the best answer is if you are happy with the past that you choose okay so you talked about taking vacations so <hes> is it one of the stress poster that you have other many maureen which comes comes into play and helps in getting recharged absolutely do need to recharge angel given the charges self so tell me <hes>. I acted fueled up okay <hes> i do it. I try to do it every day but let's say fight. The week is uh-huh manage pissed <hes> so every morning around five or six i stopped by majority leader in two minutes to wanna wanna and that to me <hes> being centered obviously the other big stress busters my four year old who's laying around at home with me and the evening when i go back mccomb rachel she literally is the guest dressed bus stuff but you have to find the balance. How do you manage your time. <hes> our need if you can share certain tips that helps you in a figuring out what i am needs to be given to work activity. So how do you organize it. I am very well to say that i counted. She'll strength and thank god for that because this would be pretty crazy <hes> but i think think some <hes> some practices i follow. I don't know if it will help others but the practice is g._e. To tyler is okay. You can be dead foyer. There are paying you won't be able to attend to whether they be <hes> dinners <hes> in in the evening for work or something but today he's up days for your kid. You know things you just can't be there because you are one person and any of this many days of time so for me the first born just prioritize prioritize. What is it that you absolutely must do and then deepak. Don't let it bother you right so i'm just thinking i say it's an even weekend. Let this as a weekend. <hes> <hes> dinners paying somebody for well okay then. I am very happy to say saudi. I've gone make it <hes> only betty selectively collectively the nicer yes but i'm happy to say sorry. I won't make it and it's okay. You know it's okay to say. I can't be every day every weekend for everything <hes> <hes> on. Let's say that is a. I don't know i'm saying that's not a day the mothers so so this one thing so for example the mothers <hes> <hes> all the kids want to get together for coffee on working day afternoon. Obviously ain't gonna make it but you know it's alright. I was just this big. This is dry within the companion of paradise. It doled sweat the small stuff so this is my this is another thing that has learned to my experience radiance of so many of handling all of these different things that are small things that you won't be perfect in fact perfection enemy here. Please just let go whether you have to build you know like <hes> <hes> gupta snacks for you know kid or sometimes of a costume party or whatever it is you know. It's okay if you didn't make it happen. It didn't make it happen right so you shouldn't put too much pressure on yourself to be perfect at home. Audit audits work. You have to just really give it your best and excel at what you do but perfection is not an enemy. Sometimes it's okay. My husband is messy. It's okay if you just didn't get the time to get it done. It's okay or some get delayed by empty more weeks than they should be. That's also so for me needs like brenner days and <hes> going back this most stuff and i think the third one is us outsourcing effectively <hes> <hes> you know there are many things that you wish you could do it yourself but it's much better to just ask somebody to help you do it so you time so like whether it is offering alfred home but <hes> you know buying the veggie burgers or getting this that and the other things done <hes> i am very happy to outsource all these responsibilities disabilities so that <hes> i have more time to spend with my kid and myself and my husband <hes> whenever boss was perfect so your message for working mums i prioritize <hes> hand and don't sweat the smallest stuff. It was wonderful interacting with you. Someone thank you thank you so much for your time. Thank you thank you hello looking king. Moms learn to prioritize what must do and deep fried is everything else and don't let it bother you have a wonderful time and stay tuned to execute the mom stories we would love to hear from you for any feedback ought to be on guest or show. You can reach us at e._m._c. Mom stories at gmail.com or an execute imam stories facebook page. I hope you enjoyed this hubbub original national podcasts. If you wanna get started with your own show plays do get in touch. We'd love to have you onboard sent an email to info at hubbub dot com. That's info kebob dot com and look back to you in a flash. We're looking forward to creating some great audio content together.

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My Three Sons

Attack Each Day: The Harbaughs' Podcast

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

My Three Sons

"Thank you for listening to this podcast. One sports net. Production available on apple podcasts and podcast. One. He is currently the head football coach of the university of Michigan wolverines. And a former player his dad and brother are also former players and coaches, but there's more to them than just football. It's time to talk about attacking life each day with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind. This is attack each day. The Harbaugh's podcast with Jim Harbaugh. Hello, everybody, and welcome to another edition of attack each day, the Harbaugh's podcast IRA Weintraub here long with coaches Jimmy Jack Harbaugh director of recruiting Matt Dudek is here. Our producer McKinsey is here as well. Later on a special Jack talk for. Let's call them Harbaugh's lasting lessons before we go any further. Reminder subscribe to us on apple podcast, you can listen by the podcast one app or on podcast one dot com, and please follow us, and contact us on Twitter at podcast or using hashtag, Jack talk, so Harbaugh's lasting lessons. Part one coming up in a little bit. But first, here's the patriarch of the Glasgow family, dad. The Graham Ryan and Jordan, here is Dr Steven glass cow on attack. Each day, the Harbaugh's podcasts coach doing doing great. Thanks for joining us on the program. I have I have a question if I might, of course, Steve, have you are you in the process of writing a book on how you and your wife have been able to put this put together this fantastic family, Jack, I, you know. You're giving me a little bit too much credit. I think that my wife is probably the brains of the operation, and, you know, it's sort of a constant battle. You know, I mean sometimes we feel like we're winning. And, and sometimes we feel like we're losing, but we keep on battling away. And what a journey it's been all tell you. I mean, what, what a what a joy and what a pleasure, but we'll get looking forward to diving into it. Theirself a doctor your wife a doctor and these three sons now who two of them are playing in the NFL, and you'll have a third Jordan playing in the NFL still has another year to play Michigan. I wanna start with Jordan and just let you know that we love everything about Jordan, as it's too early to tell who are best football player on the team, but Jordan Glasgow. Has has the, the license and ability to be our best football player. Without question is our best player on special teams every special team he plays on. He's a complete animal and, and we after going through spring practice. He's been playing inside linebacker and he's also been playing the viper position. He plays all the time they played takes the most wraps. And every time the ball goes somewhere on offense in Jordan's into game. He shows up doesn't he dad? I mean he he shows up to make the tackle and in comes from everywhere. I mean, how many different positions does he play on the defense? Is he is he trained to play? He could play both the will and the mic. So both inside linebacker positions. And he also plays the viper visors to all three linebacker positions. He plays. Yeah, that's amazing. I you know, this is really lovely to hear all tell you from my perspective. You know, Jordan has a phenomenal attitude and I didn't. Believe that Georgie could approach us, you know, a summer ball or spring ball or anything any better of an attitude that he's always gone into practice with, but this spring ball you know I think he helped his game. I think he you know, he. You know, he was more excited, and he was more ready? And he was more Jordi, whatever that is. You know, and, and I felt a lot of excitement for him hidden in the spring ball, this year because I, because I thought that he was even you know, more excited to be participating that he usually and I and I already thought he was at one hundred ten percents. I'll give you a little bit of a picture, we've gone through thirteen practices, including the the spring game. And then we still had two practices remaining practice fourteen and fifteen and it was my idea to take the edge off of the starters a bit. And I wanted to take their edge off they'd been through a lot of competitive wraps through the spring, and I also wanted to see the younger players in the backups in more of the competitive situations, so everybody that went to and, and told them that they weren't going to be in there, except Jordan said of five. Coach. We understand Jordan, the hell you are. I'm not going out. Taking me off to feel completely defy defied the the request. For the listeners, just such a the light for young man and Ross school of business. Tremendous student has the appearance of Bobby Clark if you ever body type Philadelphia. That's when he plays. And just a, a real resemblance to with the with the, the long hair and a smile all the time. And the and the missing tooth. He's, he's got it all. That's whatever whatever you reminds me of. I'll tell you he does have the look. But I'll you know, we were just so delighted with him graduating from the Ross school of business, this may, you know, I don't know how he did it. But he, I think he graduated with, like a three point six five or something like that. So he really was able to, to keep it up and and get the job done. And, and I think that's a credit to, you know, once again, my wife when the boys were young, I sort of said, you know, if you guys are students away. Your mother was a student, meaning self starter go get all A's, do this, and that, then you can go to whatever high school you want. And if you're a student, the way your father was a student, meaning it needed to be pulled out of you every step of the way then you had to go to Marmion academy, which means of Benedict team monk military. So they all needed. Had to go to Marmi and a cat. High school. They were more students like they're five of them now Graham, and, and Ryan, their majors here at Michigan was a were they were, they were both economics majors. And, and they're both now actually in the kelce will business MBA program, the NFL PA, which were very pleased with, so that's one of the NFL master's programs that they have one of the online master's programs that they have, and that's with the Kelley school of business, and they both started that in this off season. So we're, I think amazingly only two to three percent of the NFL players take advantage at MBA program, and they're both doing it. So we're pretty pleased who's got better than the Glasgow. Body. Well, I'll tell you we, we are, you know, we're going into our ninth year at Michigan. You know, that is just talk about blouse, you know, I, I can't it, it sort of an embarrassment of riches, actually. So we really consider ourselves to be unbelievable loss able to be associated with the university of Michigan for us all start with gram. How did he get involved with Michigan? And how is he approached by Michigan? Well, you know, this is really quite a story and, and one that will probably surprise you. So Graham was being recruited to a high states and the trestle were there Jim Bowman was offensive line coach. I think that when Michigan found out that grant that I'll stay sort of interested in Graham. Hey, ask them to come on. Come on up for visit Graham visited a high state and visited Michigan that was Brady hoax first year. You know, was before his first year, he was had just taken the job and Graham, actually selecting, what will Hieaux stays and this one we didn't. I did not know the story. Yes. So one week before he was gonna report to summer can't not summer camp, a summer school in June of what would be as freshman year, the trestle 's resigned, Minnesota called Graham Michigan Cole ram and Graham felt that he it was in his best interests to switch to Michigan and off to Michigan. We went while that is a allies decision. That is obviously been very fruitful for the Glasgow family starting then and continuing to now what was the difference in age between a gram and Ryan Ryan. Then they were what two years apart thirteen months park. Oh my goodness. You like our family. Yes. Thirteen quite busy. Volos air teen months support. And you know, Graham is the one who really insisted in a Ryan was sort of leaning towards Vander bell. The ram basically inserted himself in the Ryan's process and said, you need to come up here. You need to visit with the coaches, you need to get a sense of what's going on here. So we went up and we visited and it was a done deal. And it was the same. And then when Jordi when it was Jordan's time, you know, both Graham and Ryan inserted themselves in Jordan's process, made sure that your ended up in Michigan. So what a wonderful journey at has been. Can you take us back and paint a picture for the listeners of like what it was like around the house, as these kids? These three boys were growing up. I'm picturing some rain, bunks young men. Well, you know, I think the first time that my, my wife had an inkling that this was going to be a little bit different than her upbringing. So I was the oldest of three boys, I, I was sort of used to. Three boys are like, and so one Sunday I think, you know, the boys were like four three and Jordy was barely wasn't even one yet. And I'm I'm watching football on a Sunday, reading the paper, the three boys are at my feet and their pile of bodies and their flight. Comes over and rips, the paper all homes is. Don't you see the problem with this? And he said what and she said this and I said, what I'm watching the football game. I'm reading the paper, I'm not even paying attention to the kids are fighting. I see. And she goes this, too. To the pile of bodies fighting with went on. Another and they're carrying on. And I'm I'm just as happy as. And I said this I serve you see that. She said, yes. I see this use this. Get used to. She said, what do you mean I better get used to this? I said, this is my earliest memory. And I said, you know what it ended? I want to go to college. I'm back over to back up again. This is the way it's going to be. And she was horrified. I you know, but I- Steve as you tell the story I must you and I were singing out of the same him book. I can recall that moment. Yeah. And you're saying this is the greatest thing could possibly happen to us. What do you see that, that you would wanna possibly change with this? My mom, my mom Jackie was was was the same way except she would come over and yell at dad me. Well, they're using using the rug. My mom would say you got to get your head up. You know, you gotta roll your hips into that. Okay. Right. Well, you know, we saw all take you from there to, you know, my wife was very anti. So there were no guns are, bows, and arrows in the house, or anything like that. So that was we had one of the, the sets on the floor where the kids could pull the letters in the numbers out. And you know, Graham would walk around with an L his gun was an Allen Ryan's gun seven. You know, and they, they pull those out and used those in that at some point form, basically said, you know what we need to take these guys and get them to do karate, and my, my wife said will know that, that's too violent I sit down on listen the questions there you could to channel the aggression. I said, they need to learn how to have had a deal sit. So I'm going to take them to karate and it's going to be really great for that. And my, my wife wanted nothing to do with it. My mom wanted nothing to do, so, I would taking the tool or boys to karate for a while, and every time I come home. I mean I'd be laughing too are all dinner at all the silly phones kids on how wonderful it was. So eventually, my wife started coming, and then within another month. It was Graham Ryan in my wife doing karate and taking karate lessons together and became a whole family thing. And Jordan was too young. And so the, the sense with so the sense would turn around to sort of run the class doing. Thanks jordi. Would sneak out there and he would say Jordan, you're too young. You need to go sit downs so Venturi after three or four sessions sense. He came to me and said, you can't bring him to practice. He's too disruptive. I said, what are you kidding? I, I can't leave him at home, and then he'll, he'll go not. I mean he's gotta come. I said, if you got to keep them off the mat keep them off met. This is your problem, but I can't keep them at all. And after another month of this Jordi got presented with his white bell and his little outfit and he got to be the youngest person ever to take her out because he wouldn't take no for an answer does not surprise me. And that was sort of the way it was, you know, every every step of the game, it was just absolutely wild, whether this not getting the football, well where we came from they didn't start football until fifth grade. And we had told our children that they couldn't play football. All right. So I played football and wrestled at the university of Pennsylvania. But my wife was very you know, I I don't want him to play football. So when they were younger, we would say you can't play football. So I think Ryan was in second grade, and they couldn't even play football until fifth grade. And Ryan came to me and Ryan smart. They're all smart kits in Ryan came to me and each he had it all figured out. He was going to manipulate the situation. So he came. He said dad, I wanna play football. I said, well, talk to your mom, and he said, well, I have talked to mom and every time I talked to mom, she says. No, I said, well, your mom, and I are unified on this, and he said, oh, he says, you know, I said, well, why do you wanna play and he looks at me? And he says, will they had I wanna play because you play, and I'm thinking you smart, little bug. Okay. That's the reason why you wanna play. He said. Yes. We'll that. You can't play I said, because that's not a good enough reason and he puts his head down. And he starts walking away. I said is it's why you wanna play? He goes. Yeah. Yeah. Dad and his eyes light up. And I said, well, why, why do you wanna play? He says, dad, I want to run into people. It's really he said, yeah, I said, anything else he says, I want to knock out. Oh, I said, well then you can play totally. You know, one minute I'm telling him he can't play. Got it all figured out. He's going to manipulate me, but it doesn't work next minute. I'm telling him he can. He loved physical contact that you want that you want to run into people and you wanna knock down. And that's the thing that's going to ring your bell. I said I you can play. I mean, I you know, I mean, we're not gonna be able to stop you. You're gonna go dean thing, and that's how they got to go place. You could ram started in fifth and sixth grade Ryan joint is to you. And again, it was a joint thing. So it have football on our community in second grade. But I had to go, Dr Jordi thirty miles away to play football at in second grade, because he would have. I mean he had if they were playing playing unify great way to get that aggression out as you said earlier. Right. So we, we found him a team. And I we would drive them to the games at Elgin, which was ill, twenty twenty five miles away. I guess, and he got to play football at the same time that they did Steve of research that there's the possibility. I mean, the really good possibility likely that the all three we playing in the NFL at the same time, I can't think of any three brothers at have played in the NFL at the same time, have you have you looked at that yet? No, we, we were lost keeping our heads down at let take there. Course on, you know, continue. Proud of with or to the zoo, the kids is a work ethic, you know. And you and I have had this discussion before shouldn't these be children that sort of feel like things are owed to the. And, you know, surgeons are kind of old school phone and, you know, we have been very demanding with reform. Born in that the only three concentrate on the things that you can control. And the only three things that you can really control, working harder, working smarter or two on. And, you know, we've tried to pound that into all former children even our daughter Anna says just finished her first year. And so, you know, we're most proud of the fact that, that he's kids will work, incredibly hard to get what they want to do what they're passionate about. And we've all also tried to tell him don't lose sight of what the point of all of this was in the point of all of this, and the sports in the channeling of the aggressive in all of that sort of stuff wasn't so that they could become NFL football players. It was it would be so that they would be good men. Good dads. Good sons your brothers. You know that was the point and that, you know we've tried to stress to him now. Look, you're, you're kind of in blessed territory and in your in very rarefied air, but don't lose sight of. Of what of what we really want is developed here, which were outstanding men at outstanding dads, so very well, very well said Dr Steve glass cow. Joining us here on tax day. The Harbaugh's podcast I want to go back to Jack what you're opening up the talking to Dr Glascoe here, and he said, I have a question for you. I really thought the question was you have any more sons? What we, we are truly done. But you know, as I said, four, four kids, you know, if my wife didn't work and my, my wife also is north vedic Surjit. But if she didn't work me, probably would have had six Ray and you know, thank God for my mom and dad. I mean, you know, it takes a village to raise these kids, you know, and, you know, my mom and dad have been with us since Graham was one year old to help us with the kids and, you know, their influences has also been, you know, just absolutely spectacular. You mentioned your daughter. You said she finished her first year her first year at university of Indiana. Okay and out, so she, she is interested in forensic science. Unfortunately, Michigan did not have a forensic science program and Indiana did so Indiana was her first choice, and she was fortunate enough to get in and. She has just completed her freshman year, and she's working as a bus girl in one of our local restaurants. And you know which is, which we just absolutely love and. She's doing. And she did incredibly well, last year, which is really wonderful. Gotta be bought. It'd be fun for her to, to be a part of the family. And I know as dad, we had to John and fourteen months later, Jim came along, and then five years later Joni came along. And she was a, the blessing of our lives to have that daughter to jump up on your lap and put her arms around your neck win loser draw. She was on your team. And, and I know that the satisfaction joy that you your wife get from your daughter. Well, you know, Jack, we cheated so. Felt like we were going to keep on having boys and we will not a little girl. It's good for you. And you know what, you know, we were a little worried, you know, because my dad would always concentrate on the youngest person and we didn't know how to handle it and, you know, we brought in a home and the kids were sort of surrounding you're in an after a couple of weeks Graham says, will you know what this isn't fair and we kinda show so we said, well, what's not fair son. And he said, well, dad, we don't want to share. We won't want each. Oh, god. You know that's not gonna happen. But we do appreciate the set of it. You know, and and out wonderful that was to hear you know, as a as a mom and dad there, the boys ever give you the line is with the daughter, you know, that you wouldn't if you treat here, a lot better at easier than you would have treated us. I mean, we to pull off something like that. I mean we would have been in deep trouble. Do you ever get that from the boys about trade treatment of your daughter? You know what I think they understand that Anna's a different animal. And so, you know, I the problem is really been with the two older boys George, because we didn't have two kids, as you guys know you were fourteen months apart. We were thirteen months apart. They're basically like twins. And so they're pretty much going through the same thing and it's actually the same time. So when you make an edict like you know, we always set up all these ridiculous rules with. Skiing, you know, when they were snow skiing, and then they were water skiing, and then we let them wake ordered, and then they would never water ski anymore. So it's told them they had to get to an expert level. The two boys the two older boys that they had to get to an expert level in snow gang before I'd let them go to snowboarding, and we sorta held to that, and really tortured, the daylights out of them, so they were probably thirteen when they first started to snowboard, and then the day that they snowboarded I had Jordan in the snow yelling at scream than carrying out. He had to snowboard the way he was going to touch skis yet. And then eventually he just wars down, and we let him snowboard and you know, as far as they were concerned, this was terrible. You made us toe. The line for five years. And, you know, and then he carries on, and it's like, well, I need peace in the family. I made I you know, I just can't deal with this, you know, we get. Snowboarding, and he's, you know, carrying on like a maniac and will not be denied. And you know that's just the way it is. And it's like well, Dan, this isn't fair. It's like you're right. It's that's very true. That's the way it is. It sounds sounds like the dick with the with your daughter, working as a bus girl. The work harder work smarter or work longer is bene- that's been Iraq that, that hasn't changed for any of the, the youngsters no, no in for her. I mean, she's very shy. So she has some difficulties sort of, you know, issue hitting contact and in this day and age where everything can be done over your phone. You know, I mean we've specifically pick this job because she's got to get out there, and she's got gotta make yourself on comfortable, and she's got to do things that she isn't with it and become comfortable. You know, I mean just trying to be a good mom and dad and figure out how to make them the best folks that we can, you know what one other question take me through a Saturday and Sunday in the fall of the year, you're out of you and your wife put that together. Well, first and foremost, we both go to all the Michigan games. So Michigan gets, you know preference. So we both go to the Michigan games my mom and dad live in Ann Arbor during the football season pretty much. So my mom and dad are already up there. We do the travelling and then we've already probably within week of all the NFL schedules. Coming out, we've divided up the NFL gains. And so what we do is we both go to Michigan game on Sunday. We're both out at at daybreak flying, wherever or driving to wherever, and at least split up two games, one of us. Does why one of us does grant, and then we get back to Chicago either late Sunday night or early Monday morning. So if it's a Cincinnati home game or it's a Detroit home game. We will actually spend the evening so that we can have dinner with the kids after the game. And then we fly back on Monday Hornets and start work at about ten thirty eleven o'clock on Monday, and, and so our weekend, and usually on, on Monday morning, if it's an awake eight we trying get out unless it's late game. We try and get out on Sunday nights will be to get back and sleeping. I don't bet. So there's never a time when you're watching a game on television. You're usually you're at the game while we go to the games and, and we try and go to we might it's like we're not going to maybe go to London with Cincinnati this year I the Seattle game, but other than that, that's great. We're we're pretty much all the games in folk. Are like will why why do this to yourselves? And I said, well, you don't really get, you know, we've been going to their games since they first started plan and first and foremost, were there, in case someone gets her. All right. Then if they don't get hurt were there in case they play badly. And then number three is in case the team loses now if they don't get hurt they play well in the team wins. And there's a reason for us to be there. Why's that sort of how we handle it? Hey, steve. It's Matt Judy. Because we as we wrap up with a little bit here. I just did some research three brothers playing in the NFL at the same time I know your, your heads low right on this right now. You had the ball angers in the eighties and nineties, Brian rich and Gary and then to families that we, I'm sure we all know the watts joy JJ Derek and TJ, and the gronkowski's Dan. Chris, rob. That's all that. I could find right now brothers he was the one that. The family of hall of Famer there was like us. Yeah. Matthews family. Would there be? There were like. Causey. They really weren't at the same family. Yeah. Brother. They were the Matthews brothers would've the older brothers who have played yet played together too late in the same time the true fonts, but they didn't all play the same time three one finished as one was starting. But those are the only three families I could see playing at the same time and that will propose it very interesting challenge, when you guys go split, your time up to go to the different NFL games, if you have three NFL games to go to starting in. But, but Steve challenge Steve. More staff. We have grandma. Yes, we're ready to go. But the one thing is that we know they're all three playing on a professional team still Saturdays. He'll be reserved for Michigan. Absolute highway go Steve. We appreciate your time. We have one last thing, I want to ask you before we let you go. It's a conversation. We've had a lot lately on the show you and your wife are both doctors and you have three boys that all play football. We've talked a lot about football, safety, and that kind of thing as from a doctor's perspective. Talk about why you would recommend football for boys in general while you let your boys play football. Well, the way that we looked at this is that we initially said, no football, and it became pretty clear pretty quickly that they were very typical boys had a lot of energy, a lot of aggression. And if you're going to be out there doing things that are going to be very physically aggressive. I think you want the kids trained appropriately, and you want them taken care of from safety perspective. We felt that if they were going to be out there, being very physically aggressive on the that was the thing that, that, that they wanted to be passionate about that. Football would actually be safer way to go about it, then who knows what they would be into, you know, at least this way they would be coached, right? From the beginning. They would be trained on proper techniques. And, you know, we have we have not been disappointed or it's Nuff about the skiing any, any skiing injuries along the way. No, they actually did quite well. I mean, want they skied from the time they could Jordy was diapers when he started to ski actually? So the first time actually, the Geordie had a someone watch him or care for him, or a baby sitter other than my mom and dad was actually at a St. resort. And he would they would have him out there with his little mini in. His diapers. So the kids, all started, very, very relented. It went to snowboarding and they were able to do all of that, pretty safely. We were we were very fortunate. So it all three brothers and their time at Michigan been pretty much injury free of they've, they've had some bumps and bruises. But we've had some initial stuff. Go on. You know that sort of comes and goes in that's part of the territory. Thanks. So we would consider that, to be pretty routine. So I think they've been they've been pretty fortunate. Thanks to Glasgow appreciate it. Thanks, dave. Listen, this was a real pleasure. Great to chat with eight stories. Thank you gotta do quote from quote board by now most of your family coming up. Next Jack talk here on each day, the Harbaugh's podcasts, every car comes to the sheriff stories that digging, your bumper, when you nervously picked up a first date, the luxury package, you got after a big promotion or the mileage you saved by riding your bike all summer while you can't put a price tag. On your stories now with truecar you can at least find out what your car's worth when it's time to sell or trade it in just go to truecar simply enter your license plate number and watch your car details. Pop up then answer a few questions, navigation and moon roof watches, they bump up your value. High mileage you already knew is going to cost you. But now you can know how much did you out? 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Jack gave us top ten list of life codes. If you will couple of months ago, Jack and Jim over a few podcasts will tell us how that top ten list is come to life for them. So here's the first part of our Harbaugh's lasting lessons series here on a tacky today. The Harbaugh's podcast, this is Jack talk. I wanna listen, I want to be better. I want to be the best. I can be welcome to our team. Cacti talk as you get older. You get to be seventy eight years old. Here's what I find hair grows in places that it hadn't been before. Welcome to hashtag, Jack talk one remind yourself, who has it better than than you. This would came up out growing up and low town of Chris line. I mean it was right after the war depression. Wasn't too far away. Very few in our town, had much of anything, but we had, we had each other. We met every morning in the summertime at eight o'clock, you'd play baseball until the lunch, go to someone's house, and they would have the door open for you and something something to eat back on the playground until dark. And then it was time to play a little kick. The can under the street light, then you got the whistle. Dad would take the two fingers and put a one when you heard that whistle. I mean it was time to sprint for the house because you were being being called home. And that was what the day day was all about. And I can't tell you the number of times that we would sit around and say, who has it? It better than us. Go buddy. And I want you to know during that period of time. No one had better than us. And it's just a way to face the face life every single day. No question about I think about a lot of times when I'm up from my team. I'll say the same they who's got a better than us. And then everybody loud, new body. And the crosses my mind is, is, as I say that to the team, you know, I'm telling them that, you know, coach could possibly have better coaches or better better players to coach. And then when they come back with the nobody, you know, they're telling they're telling us, I mean, they are happy to be here, and, and there's no no team that they would rather be on over the over the years of using that we have never gone with nobody without everyone in the room having a smile on their face. I mean, no matter what your day has been like, no matter what the circumstances are at. That moment there's a smile on your face. And you are truly together as a team. It's reminds me of John wooden, quote them. Sure. Was John wooden. And he said, it's up paraphrase, but it was something to the nature of there's two types of people in the world. There's, there's complainers and there's problem solvers, and those two types of people either work in one of two departments in your organization. They're in the complaints department or the solutions department. The complete departments open from eight to five and the solutions department is open twenty four hours a day. So that's another thing that goes into my head is like who's got a better than us? Nobody. We'll, we'll find the solution again to protect the innocent. We won't use any names here, but talking to one of the other coaches and, and we were talking about somebody that, that used to be here. And we're like an coach said something like why remember they wish to do these camps that you know that? You know, coach complained a lot when we go do these, these football camps. So you had June was his month that can play the other coach can play pretty much about every month. So we're looking for is to attack each day with enthusiasm, unknown man, unknown to mankind and solve problems and have solutions brings your team together. I remember the first time that I think that the the remind the who has a better than us. Nobody really I don't say mainstream, but really got out there to the public was when you went on your run to the Super Bowl with the forty Niners. And a lot of obviously leading up to the bowl within your Super Bowl against your brother, a lot of people bringing up the Harbaugh quotes that one really stuck with a lot of people. And after that point in time, I sort of hearing it from a lot of people, you kinda co-opting the harbach which I'm sure you guys don't really have a problem with. And it's probably fun to hear other people using probably Bo years later seeing other other people using the team team the team that you guys probably. Hey, if it works for you, why not? Yeah. There's, there's, there's sometimes there'd be there'd be somebody that you say that to who's got better than us. And, you know, the contrary and type of person would come back with well, this person has a better, you know, they have a better or this person over here has better. So we kinda we kinda added to the to the adage of who's got it better than us who could possibly have it better than us. And the answer is future us, future us could have it better than we have it right now. So we getting better tomorrow than you are today that fitting better today than you were yesterday future. Could have it better than we Ainsley. We have a little Ainsley. She was about six years old, which he, I heard it the first time and we'd be down with Tom and Joanie and, and Megan and Riley, and we'd be around the dinner table. And you'd say who has it better than us? And Ainsley would go some. Body. So that got caught the attention. And so, so maybe a six year old thinks a little bit differently than we adults when that you I really embarked on the on the boys and Joni first time I ever heard it was about first grade. Six years old might have heard it before that. But that's what I can remember it. We were living in Iowa City, Iowa. I don't think are we sometimes we had a car was an old Chevrolet. Remember the Chevrolet, kind of bluish green type of car militia derby, type car. Frans back. Bowling green. And when you were a high school coach and they'll know what your was or, or whatever. And then dad would get a dealer car that was the first time I can remember that the family got a dealer car from a car dealership. You get a demonstration car to drive for recruiting. So dad had this other car during recruiting seasons and got the drive that I think it was a panel station wagon and there was a time where we didn't have the, the recruiting car because it wasn't recruiting season. And then the Chevrolet didn't start start, you know, wouldn't work or it was in the shop. And this was this was a day, when, when we're going over to the office, dad's office that I was city and come out car didn't start. And he goes boys, grab a basketball John, you get a ball, Jim. You get a ball. We're gonna we're, we're walking today, one hundred with the right one hundred with the left and we. Started off and we're drivelines and who's got a better than us it, we're, we're back there. Nobody did. Nobody. We're, we're dribbling. Walk at org. This is great. Never the hills. It was city tall. When court there you had to walk up the hill that big old hill to get to the get to the office where you had to go up that hill. And then the next eight years, kind of like the stadium boulevard of bread. I can't remember the name of that street, but that had a big big. Downward hill. We used to ride our bikes on and tough to walk up bouncing, a basketball up the hill, and the right on hundred with the left and then one hundred back to the right and what happened if you like bounce it off your foot or something, or are you just go? Back. It's pretty easy question. We're going home without the wall. Yeah, you don't wanna go home without the basketball. That's absolutely sure so remind yourself daily that nobody has a better than you. And I know you do that every day with your team, and you probably do it every day at home. I try to do it every day. And boom wish performer home, not necessarily with that exact quote, but yeah, it's a lot of the times that you find that the obstacle that you do have to overcome whatever that obstacle is. Actually, makes you better actually forge is you into the person, or, or the athlete that you become. I had a dream of being a major league baseball player as a as a youngster, I wanted to be a shortstop and had had a ball glove. You know had had little league had fields and things like that with grass and, and in fields. And then I realized as I got older that there was kids down in the Dominican Republican that didn't have gloves. They would. Fashion gloves into milk cartons. They didn't have a groom field that ball could could take a take a hop in any direction and actually turned out. They had a better than I did in terms of becoming a major league shortstop because they had all the advantages the way it turned out. So it's, it's how you think of it. It's how you think of it. And, and that's why that's why that that way of life, you know, reminding yourself daily that nobody could possibly have it better than you is, is, so near and dear to our hearts, gathers a family. The second one air Do. Right. Treat others as you would be treated, that's a Lou Holtz. It was Lou Holtz is possibly as well. Trudeau's as usual as you would want to say. I think the bible K before. I recall the golden rule. Say do right. Do right. What are the rules do? Right do. Right. And then the second part third one there is, when you stub your toe make it right. And some of these coaches and parents, they had these rules on the wall, like one five fifty twenty th rule after rule after rule after rule. I mean you have to be a scientist, distant keep track of all the different rules. You have let alone the kids try to rule. But it's really simple do, right. You know, the difference between right? You know, the difference between wrong do. Right. And if you stub your toe, which you will, at times, you have to make it right. And there's going to be consequences with that simple. Not complicated whatsoever or the consequences. Like when the when the harbach kids, their toes. I tell you one thing I got Jim one time, one time, he he's having trouble in English and he had an English paper, it was due, and he was, I think he was a junior high school, weren't you channel where were you? See where you're going with the story. He was he was he was played basketball. And I told him if you don't get that paper in by Friday, once, you know, you will not play in the game Friday night. So I thought it was either junior high school game or high school game. And so I'd kind of forgotten, and Jackie kind of brought it up kind of after school was over. Jim, did you ever get that paper in and Jim said? No, I said, oh my goodness. He can't play in the game. And I was planning on going to game and I wanted to watch him play. So I thought to myself, what am I gonna do? I made I made the statement if he didn't have the paper and he couldn't play. So I said, okay, here's the deal wack. You take one wack. If you got you chat, if you didn't turn it in. I'm gonna give you one wack bend over being. It was kind of a soft little town. Okay. Let's go. To learn or right? He, he made it right. So it's time to get to the game. When I recall was it was I was probably nine or ten and it was the game was hockey night. Our our team Wilkinson luggage was playing in the hockey night at at Joost arena was a big deal that was for that was for the championship a week earlier my report card had come back, and it came back with some check minuses for in the behavior category talking too loud. And this, you know, disturbing others whether we're working, and there was there's a few of those tech minuses and. My dad said that I had I had one week to get that changed and going in the other direction that I had to bring a note the game was Friday night. And by by five Friday, I had to have a note from my teacher, that said that I was behaving better. So go to school Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday Friday and bring that teacher note home on Friday. Otherwise, you will not play in the the hockey night championship game. And I did improve my behavior that week. It was very important for me to do that. But I forgot to ask the teacher for note. So when I came home on Friday, we're kind of getting ready to to go and. Get a hetero bags ready to go, my dad. You know, came home from work, and demanded, the, the no from the teacher, and a said that I didn't have it, and he accused me of not taking it seriously. I, I did. I've I've gotten better haven't gotten in trouble once this entire week. And he you're lying down the truth. I said you weren't playing in the game. And you know what come over here? I'm going to get three wax with the belt. So I got the I've got three wax with the belt wrong sport. He was very excited for that Chevy Chase. No, they weren't. First of all, is pretty I was pretty good pretty pretty healthy. But the next two were, I definitely got the feeling that you're cut me a break attacking I in that Jackie and I around the kitchen table till that story every once in a while, and then she after the third wacky, it's okay, let's go jump into. We're close to the game you had to be helped because it was a choice. Okay. It's either it's either not playing a game or you're getting you're getting a weapon here. That's right. Which, which do you choose? I'll take take the weapon so. Winter story. That's a true story. We did win that game. You guys wanted to feed who aren't you? We had a great team. The many sports that you played here. There is a little story about that too, Jim and John. We're both playing football here junior, the wolverine football program tackle football on the fifth or sixth grade. And so they had hockey tryouts and they said, well, if you don't come for hockey, tryouts you can't you can't play on the team. They're having draft. And you can't play on the team and Jackie was adamant. They made a commitment to football. They will play football until the season's over. And then if they can't play hockey they can't play well so they were on a team. It was all draft and they all had team. So then what they decided was well, all the guys had played football that hadn't tried out. They put a team together was then Wilkinson look Jim it was at a different team. Do you remember we've, we've put the sheriff's all stars team together? I'm talking about hockey the hockey team. So they took all the football players. They wanted to undefeated. They beat all. Teams that had had been drafted. I might have been John. I don't I don't remember that being involved in with one of those guys a true story. Don't recall that at all. Give me some cover there. They weren't a lot of football players that played hockey back where we were you a guy would know that stories, John bacon jumping, and I was on that team. I'm sure John was on that hockey night. That was that was highest ever rose in the hockey leaks. Johnny level. Remember John got a winning goal in hockey night. One of those games he was he was kind of in front of the net and some guy shot a shot from the from the blue line like and it kinda bounced off of his stick, or whatever it went into the goal. And, and he was a he was a hero. They still do that. And then arbiter they do hockey night. They got there. I don't there's a hockey night. They're still you talk. You I don't know the that was big. That was the thing. We sold tickets for it was like selling it? So candy for football. And he's had to sell hockey night tickets for hockey growing up. I think all the all the sports teams that I know around here, still the same thing those like discount coupon cards every sport seems to have one at every high school, and so that you get knock on the door from every team won our discount card. And once you have one, they're all the same discounts. I don't know about hockey. Let's dig into that. John is famous for saying is that hockey was his best sport. He's as hockey was your fourth sport and you better than him, hockey nothing. He would say. He was better me in baseball. He was much better hitter Jonathan. Oh, yeah. He said baking in would say it's his fourth sport when he would play hockey that was that was his best sport. It was your fourth sport. But he was still. You're the better. He was a better. There's a lot of good hockey players. They about our kids in hockey, both John and GM. They didn't know how to stop. They were they could stage gate for you. Well, they'd get moving. The only thing they stopped on running into boards or slip or falling into the when they changed, you know, change lines. They would run in catch him about the waist and it flopped. The end of the block, or hit someone that was about the only three ways they had, they had a an ability to stop, that's the way to stop, right? Yeah. Yeah. I was wondering what you're telling the first story about school and things like that. The mom mom would come a lot to school. I was gonna I thought you were going to tell some story about how you came to school because now as parents go to school, I'm at school all the time. I'm there for plays. I'm there for sometimes to read lungs. You got you got you got the annual. What is your parent do for a job? And you come in and tell the, the second grade class, there's, you know. Drop-offs stuck. There's a lot. There's toasty Tuesday. You know, there's a whole thing he touts taco. There's a something else father to other dancers, so many things that you do for school today. And I thought that he never came to my school. One time he came to my school. One time. When I was in the seventh grade, and he's over there pounding on the on the door where we're glass. Glory goes, where's the rake? Dan, rake. You're talking about. We're taking a test. What you do with the rake after after you're done working yesterday. I hung up in a hook in. In the garage. He goes the hell you did. You left it out outside. It Ray all night. I picked up that money rake out of the law. Sorry, dan. How about you ready? Muddy rakes. Have you picked up now that you would know how it feeling it? I never left rake outside the after I was working with every, you got home, right? Every rate got hug up in the garage after that. So is he been? Here's a right hand. Turn for us that we have here in the podcast is how many times has he been said at one time to your school. How many times for the grandkids? He's been there for grandparent day was that Addy's play katie's did she get a first communion? I was at church. Is there for that church there, Sundays ago? Yeah, the rules are different for parents. Great thing happened this week, I was in Flint, went to Flint, Michigan for talk on Monday and some gentlemen came up behind. He goes Jack so good CNN. I well good. Seeing you nice meeting. No, no. You met me. We just met here about a week or so ago. I said, we did he's sitting right behind you at the mass when Katie got her first. Holy communion. And you turn it around and what do you offer? You know, when you say peace be with you with you. So we did we change the peace be with you. I do look for anything. So I remember here from bid. No. So there's good things that come from going to check carbos put. I mean he's putting a good five days a week in right now. Any kind of school or sport related. You got Jack football on Sunday. You go soccer Addy, or Jack on Saturday, and then you go to go to go to practice. You take what your night for taking Jackson soccer practice soccer's. On Monday and touch football is on Thursday. Great story great story yesterday. A Jackie took Addy to field hockey practice and the grass was long and wet in the morning. So everybody, they sent out a message and Email that the grass was long and hadn't been cut, so there was a chance that they would have to cancel practice that day. And then Bruce Elliott found out about three o'clock that they cut the grass. So he sent at other Tech's back, if practice you light to come to practice, I'll be there, so you'll come on over. So Jackie took Addy to practice. And she was the only one that came and it was just Bruce Elliott and Addie the rest of the girls. Evidently, didn't get the second message. So Bruce Elliott's talk about what kind of guy he is he could very say, well, there's only any we're going to cancel practice and we'll see a next week, right? He spent an hour with her working on individual. Oh, skills, and Jackie citizen. Most impressive thing that she's ever seen. And he was thrilled about it because he said very few times. I haven't a chance to work one on one when you got when you got a group of whatever number of girls you're working with the teams and Jackie said, skills them how to block and pass and doing all the different things. So in the nice no, we have the Bruce Elliott's of the world in this community of ours. The legend of Bruce Elliott grows that is that is a great story that fits in with exactly how your daughter described him. He's the best. He's the best coach he's the best coach ever ever. That's what she said. We had the we were taking Jack to the this was classic Jack to Jack had a football game touch football game. It was on a Sunday. We were me and my dad were I think more excited than than Jack was for the Gabe as pretty excited and they were playing the patriots. So my son Jack's favorite teams the ravens, but he loves Tom Brady loves the patriae. Hits. So we go to the game in right? When we pulled into the parking lot downpour pouring down rain and so the game the game ended up getting canceled all the all the cars, leave. And so I guess I guess I guess we'd better go. There's nobody that is not going to be anybody here. And so we're kind of drive it out of the parking lot. And my dad turns around Jack in the back seat and he goes, he goes. Boy, we dodged a bullet there. We got lucky. I don't think there's any chance we could beat the patriots today and Jack skit, but we're going to beat the patriots. I don't think so I we've seen we've seen the patriots as warm up they they haven't lost a game. There's there's no chance that you guys. The rain out is the rain out is good for two weeks. He was he was on that until they played the makeup game against the patriots played to make up game. And you, you hadn't hurt this star. You weren't there for that one. But we're at the game into patriots, are I didn't know they were that good. Really? I was just talking because he just doing your psychological boat, ovation given some psychological advantage, but they could and they score they scored again and Jack over root for the patriots. You want the patriots. I don't I'm rooting for you. He thought that I had changed my allegiance from the ravens. His ray. Team too. Of that discussion that we had ended up being a tie. Right. Well he really didn't the patriots won patriots one. Ooh. Jackson was attack. And he said afterwards, he's wow. That was close tied. They lost about two scores. Really? And I didn't have the heart to tell even I hope he's not listening to the podcast. I gotta tell you. I was we're driving out of that parking lot word here in highschool driving out in the downpour. It I, I see see my dad working Jack and getting them getting them all fired up at emotional, and how much he's going to have to practice if they wanna if they want to beat the patriots and just, just flashed over my entire life, my entire up Ray and I was seeing, you know why I am the way I. Was because of. Because of things like that. Blessing? You're what are we don't know? Exactly right. A compliment. It's a compliment to comment. You see it as a conflict. Yes. Golly, I'll take it has compliment. I would think. Maybe backhanded, but a couple of. You can contact us on Twitter at podcast or by using hashtag, Jack talk, follow us, favourite us and subscribe to us on podcast, one dot com and the podcast one app. Don't forget, the Rados on itunes. We want to thank Dr Steven glass for being our guest today. We'll think podcast one enter sponsor two-car. And of course, I have a great week, everybody and keep attacking each day with an enthusiasm, unknown to man. Thank you for listening to attack each day, the Harbaugh's podcast here on podcast, one don't forget to subscribe at podcast, one dot com. The podcast one app or apple podcasts.

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Politics with Amy Walter: How Coronavirus Will Hurt those Attempting to Enter the Workforce

The Takeaway

46:46 min | 1 year ago

Politics with Amy Walter: How Coronavirus Will Hurt those Attempting to Enter the Workforce

"Is politics with Amy Walter on the takeaway not so long ago. It seemed unimaginable. That you'd be able to hear a pin drop in Times Square at there'd be no line for security at the airport for that rush hour. Traffic would all but disappear but here we are. It's been about a month since Americans began. Sheltering in place are practicing social distancing. Those of US lucky enough to work remotely our own. That's not a choice. That HEALTHCARE WORKERS GROCERY STORE. Employees truck drivers or transit workers can make the severity of pandemic is unprecedented and it will change the fabric of society in ways. We haven't yet realized that's why today we wanted to focus on the impact. This pandemic is having on those of us who were just starting out in life. These are the people who be living with the repercussions could embed longest right now. They're missing out on celebrating important milestones graduations weddings Bar mitzvahs continuous and pregnancies. They're leaving school at a time. When more than twenty two million Americans have filed for unemployment? They're starting a family during an unprecedented health crisis. My name is Zara Green. And I'm from New York City The life event that current virus has upended for me is I am pregnant and not only pregnant but when I discovered this I was living in Paris. My name is Yara shod and I am from Chicago. Illinois Kurna virus has appended many live events for me including my last semester law school. My graduation hand my future employment. I'm Sherry Bonnin from Orange California. My daughter's wedding was supposed to be on. May night my name. Is Eric Bone? I'm originally from Indianapolis Indiana but currently living in Arbor Michigan where. I'm completing my master's in business administration of the Ross School of business. At the University of Michigan Corona virus has changed almost every aspect of what I thought was going to be a great finish to the graduate school experience milestones that would normally be celebrated or now met with fear and sadness. And Worry I. I traveled back from Paris and the dead of the night after Donald Trump announced that he was closing the borders for everybody from Europe. I mean it makes me feel unsettled. my husband and I were saying yesterday that we haven't really had an opportunity to celebrate being pregnant because there have been so many just life events and things that we didn't expect being thrown our way the first big ultrasound that we did for the baby was the day that one of the hospitals in New York City closed. Its doors to partner is being able to join the pregnant woman in the room so we arrived at the hospital fully expecting the two of us to go in together and there was security guard. Who told us that he couldn't come? The appointment took two and a half hours so you had to wait in the lobby by himself or two and a half hours just kind of twiddling his thumbs and wondering what was going on which which was hard for both of us. I was in my last semester of law school at Notre Dame when the krona virus pandemic states Notre Dame was on spring break at the time and we received an email stating that in person classes would be suspended for the rest of the semester. Notre Dame cancelled commencement In we are instead having a virtual graduation via zoom. Everyone keeps telling me that. Not Having a graduation doesn't take away from my accomplishments but it definitely feels that way. Graduation was meant to be a celebration of the last three years of my hard work. It was meant to be a thank you to my parents who had made so many sacrifices to support me and it was going to be the final goodbye to a important chapter of my life. It's hard not to feel like I was robbed of what was supposed to be the bus dear of my life. The wedding is tentatively postponed until October. But we have an order. The new invitations yet. Because we're still unsure if that day will be safe to proceed with also. It's difficult to make happy plans. When a crisis continues to unfold luckily the vendors and businesses we hired of all been very kind and since they all knew the reason why they just let us moved the date. We just hope that all of these businesses make it through in reopen. The biggest change definitely been town of to what comes next after Grad school my post. Mba Job Search. I was focused on the travel in hospitality industry with companies like Marriott. Where intern last summer as my target but obviously with the impact at the pandemic has had on that industry. Nearly all the companies I was networking with and applying for jobs. Went went on a hiring freeze as and March and having continued conversations with many contacts. A half a lot of them are being furloughed for the foreseeable future. The prolonged uncertainty is difficult to digest especially for those of you who had plans to celebrate. Achievements you'd work towards for so long. As far as the pregnancies concerned there's just so much uncertainty surrounding what will be allowed but will not be allowed or recovery. We'll look like what the first few months for my child look like now. I have no idea when or if the bar examination is taking place and the bar exam gets postponed even further than what most states are doing. It will have a significant impact on my financial situation. I definitely feels though. My plans have been completely derailed. Unfortunately there's not much I can do to adjust my plans right now because there's just so much uncertainty. It's been very stressful on my daughter and our whole family having to deal with I planning an entire wedding in about four months then having to suddenly stop everything. My daughter's been through so much. In recent years and recently she and her fiance had to evacuate their home because of the Sonoma's county wildfires two times in the past two three years. We just wanted something good to happen to her for once. We really hope it will happen. We need something to celebrate. I think first and foremost the should be a time of celebration with friends and family completed the NBA Process. But really out of that. I think the biggest disappointment has been the inability to spend time with classmates and faculty and friends who I've made here at the university and have really made the experience unforgettable. Help us understand the socio economic toll. The pandemic is having on Americans especially those of us who were younger. I spoke with Hanash Font and assistant professor at Northwestern University School of Education and social policy. I spoke to him specifically about the impact. Recessions have on those trying to enter. The workforce growing literature in economics at has shown that graduating in a recession has no persistent impacts on income and outcome. So you know if you if you enter the labour market doing an economic downturn than you earn less in the short run but then also absorbed for many years to come and in both recent study was to factor and we are looking at medium to long-term so we are following people up to thirty years after the end of the labor markets around like fifty and we particularly focus on mortality. That's an important indicator for health and overall wellbeing and we see that indeed mortality rates in Midlife are increasing for cohorts that particularly unlucky and enter the labour market in Vatican circumstances so why would their mortality rate increase as they get older. We cannot really pinpoint the precise mechanism but the general idea. Is that Gruden? Recession on average can be to socio economic decline. And so this could mean you have income that might mean more stress in your life that might mean for For health behaviors and we. And maybe riskier lifestyle and indeed see that mortality increases due to heart disease drug overdoses lung cancer liver disease so causes. That can be tied to health behaviors. How hard is it to compare past recessions to this moment that were in yes so this is truly unprecedented just like the magnitudes right of like the increase in unemployment rates and so on so anything that we have estimated previous recessions and now we have to extrapolate to levels that we have never imagined when we were writing the paper. We're like oh. A strong recession would be one where maybe unemployment rates increased by maybe five percentage point but now we're talking about increases by up to like thirty percentage point or something so that is one difference invest of course always a question to which extent do any of those effects just like scale up. I'm the other aspect of course. Is that the pandemic has a very particular heterogeneous impact on different groups. Right so and we can imagine that some groups whether the storm and like the lockdown better than others because you off this job structure and so on or maybe some people will lose their job. More on some some professions more than others so this is also different from from previous recessions but I think the takeaway from our research is just to say what if he learned about particularly vulnerable groups from past recessions. And I think we have every reason to believe that those who are about to enter the labor market are also vulnerable group in the upcoming recession in in in this period of time. As you look at what the government has done thus far and I'm specifically looking at the the cares act which the highlight of that is the individual checks being sent out to Americans. Is this enough? Is this the kind of things that could help these recent graduates or people who are new to the workforce or is there something else that government really needs to be doing to help this really vulnerable population and so I think? Of course it's IT'S. It's a first step to send out those fakes. Being the one could one could debate about how how much money is sent out. Compared to other loopholes we have found out recently about the care act right like very rich people and so on but I think the specific issue there'd be facing with the labor market entrance is not so much that they are lacking and money in the short term. Maybe there might be some expenses for like applications also unrighteous where they could help but in general it's not an issue that they are just lacking a few thousand dollars in the mountains off. Stop APPLICATION THE ISSUE. In general is that there are no jobs. Right and de the mets is that typically a formed and where like good candidates find good firms and start working. There start accumulating human capital. Get experience and so on become a valuable employee over time. Those matches don't don't happen and I think it would be great to have something like for example wage subsidies that that firms can get for hiring recent graduates and new labor market entrance nine. That would be much more directed. Incentives policies that are directly targeted at creating those matches and having the the new labor market entrance. You know getting job offers. That would be particularly useful. Sean thank you so much for taking the thanks. Thanks so much this yeah. Of Course Harnish. Font is an assistant professor at Northwestern University School of Education and Social Policy About a decade ago. The great recession was considered to be the most severe economic slowdown since the Great Depression. By late two thousand nine more than fifty million Americans were unemployed. Among them were millennials graduating from college and eager to enter the labor force at the worst possible time many of them struggled to find work relevant to their interests so they took a series of low paying jobs that reduced their lifetime earnings. And for many millennials this lead to distrust of the institutions policies and personalities that they believe contributed to the financial meltdown. I talked to Amanda Mole from the Atlantic about how corona virus might do the same for what she's calling generation see one of the stories emerging about the pandemic is the disastrous strike different groups of people depending on where they are in life and that means socio economically that means employment wise. That means you know lots of different things whether they live in rural urban areas But I think that's been largely overlooked is how it strikes people differently based on where they are in just sort of the Ark of their lives. one thing that could be really really severe younger. People is is the sort of socio economic and political fallout. That they have then have to deal with for the rest of their lives. So generation see is a term that my colleague Ed Young Coins and we have sort of at the Atlantic flushed out to mean young people right now basically under the age of twenty five so those in-school those in college and those who are just in their very first Post graduation jobs trying to make a transition From being young to being grown from from student hood to adulthood what do we think it means for these young people who again if they were in school or going through sort of their normal lives and struggling with all the things that a tween struggles with or a person that is going into Later teenage dumb goes into when they don't have those social norms when they don't have those those traditional points in their life that they can point to as guideposts one of the things that That I think all maybe not all but pretty much. Most of Americans sort of agree on is the story of our teen. Years isn't just the story of going to school. Going to middle school and going to high school means a lot to people in a lot of different ways. It's where you learn you start to build the skills to To Hash out interpersonal conflicts to have romantic relationships to understand your relationship to authority to understand what you're passionate about in life so all of those skills. You're picking up along the way that don't necessarily have anything to do with what's in your text books or what you're taking tests on are really really super valuable. And they generally require a lot of in person interaction. There have been studies done on learning programs. That are that are conducted digitally and even in situations where they are well planned and well funded the results that you get out of them. The thing the amount that the kids benefit is just not as much as going to school in person and then for kids who are economically disadvantaged backgrounds or from in stable families schools where you get meal schools where you get. Responsible Authority figures that you can rely on. It's where you start to build your framework of understanding your role in life in a in a way that is far more important for disadvantaged kids into this for one stable home lives so you have this whole array of potential factors that that could be impacting. How these kids will move through the rest of their lives right now right. There's also been a lot of talk though about especially if you're on the younger end of the millennial spectrum of a generation that maybe they were in school during the downturn of two thousand and eight or they started the job market on the tail end of the recession but the Sorta double-whammy that that generation is is feeling. Can you talk a little bit about? Maybe how this almost back to back. Crises is going to influence generation. Not just under twenty five but potentially generation under forty so of the exact The exact demographic that you're talking about here I graduated college in Two Thousand Eight. I was laid off from my first job. Seven months later when the economy collapsed. And it has taken me and you know a lot of that. Cohort of sort of like mid generation millennials. All of the time since then to scrape together the sort of stability. That would have been a lot. More achievable. Had that recession not happened now. That those those people are you know ten or twelve years out from that experience you. You're able to look at that data in say that the people who graduated from school whatever kind of school it was High School College Law School whatever During that period of time because they graduated into a period of instability they have had their careers redirected in ways that have Impacted not just how much money they earned then but their lifetime earnings does this then widen the okay boomer divide. I think that as the group of people who are sort of on the receiving end of a lot of the negative economic outcomes that this country has produced over the past fifteen years. Is that group rose? I think that you're going to see a widening of the existing ideological divide between older Americans younger Americans. This was really really legible during the Democratic primaries where more centrist candidates like Joe Biden and Buddha. Judge where a lot more popular among older voters whereas further left candidates like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders especially Were much much more popular. Among younger voters that divide over what people believe is the mandate of the progressive wing of this country's politics is only going to be widened as you watch. People lose their jobs as you watch working class. People being required to deliver groceries to their to richer. Folk says you watch you know. Transit operators and people like that go into work in and then die in disproportionate numbers as you watch how the The effects of the pandemic are felt more acutely among black and Latino people who've experienced environmental racism. Who Don't have access to healthcare At the same rate as the rest of the population so I think that pandemics loom nate. How does disadvantages accumulate and young people who are not as not as beholden to Cold War rhetoric and fear about more Social safety net oriented policies are going to want government to do. Those things are going to expect their leaders to have an answer for those problems. Amanda Mall Thank you so much for coming on and talking about this with me. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. A Mammal is a staff writer at the Atlantic After my conversation with Amanda Mall About Generation See I wanted to hear directly from someone who falls in that cohort? My name is Judy Lewis. I'm a political science major and an English minor at Howard. University Judah actually completed his first semester of senior year back in two thousand seventeen but he's forced to take time away from school in order to pay down the money he owed for tuition. My father had been helping me out financially and He came to me and he was like. I gotta be honest with you like you're GonNa have to essentially carry the baton across the finish line because it's just too expensive Which I completely understood and so that fall I went to school. You know I had. I had a pell grant in that was it. I had no other way to pay the money back on and that was the first half of my senior year that year. I ended up. They told me that I couldn't register for classes next semester because I had an outstanding balance on which I knew was going to happen but I was like I just. I need to go to school. I need to continue so I ended up having to take all of my stuff out of my dorm. 'cause I wasn't registered for classes and I had to go all the way back home and I had a bill of a little bit over eighteen thousand dollars that I had to pay back back home in Connecticut Judah had to figure out how to pay down debt. I didn't have a job. I didn't really have many people who would hire me because I didn't have a degree And so my younger sister at the time she was in high school and she said while she worked with me at this Vietnamese restaurant as a waiter so I said yeah sure. I'll do it and I did that for a few months I was making less than minimum wage. Which was which is difficult After that I left and I started to work at a warehouse at Amazon And I did that for a month and then I moved on and I got hired at the Marriott when I first started. There was making eleven dollars and five cents. I kept working. I worked there for about a year. I got promoted to the supervisor position in a started to make a little bit more money. Essentially all of the money that I had I was just throwing it at this debt and then I get hired at voyage financial which was another promotion and I was still living well below my means still just trying to find ways to like cut corners. So I don't I can spend less. I had friends would pick me up from work and bring me home and vice versa. Just that I could save money on bus fare in Uber's in that kind of thing. Eventually I was able to get back to school so he started his final semester in January on track to graduate this Spring Judah like thousands of other students was planning for commencement celebrations and life post graduation but as Cova nineteen began to spread. Became clear. Things weren't going to happen as expected. Obviously everyone knew what the issue that was going on with cove in nineteen on the it was a it was going to be a national issue on in. They're going to be some changes to how the university handled it in that kind of thing Originally we were told that we could stay on campus throughout the rest of the semester. But that everything was going to be in line and then they told us that we were going to have to leave and we come back April six and then that guy moved up till them saying you guys have to leave at the end of spring break which then got moved up to now you have to leave the twenty second of. I think it was March and then one day we actually got an email that said no. Actually you have to be off. Campus WITHIN FORTY EIGHT HOURS. And it's not just the end of the semester celebrations have been ended. The Corona virus once again Judah finds himself facing an uncertain financial reality. I was told recently that like a scholarship that I had gone for. Might be postponed. Because of the Corona Virus I received PELL GRANTS AND STUDENT LOANS. And that kind of thing. I received another scholarship but I am not sure if it was going to be enough to cover this last semester. That was another way. Actually that I did that. Scholarship ended up coming through or Neil. I'm not sure it's still unsettled it. Now Yeah I been bothering one of my professors about it. And he said that it might be postponed which it. I'm not sure what's what's going to happen with that when you talk to your friends about this Are you guys? Do you feel like you're on the same page with People who are in your same situation people who are graduating from school this year or almost set to graduate And what their prospects might look like for post graduation and then even I don't know if you're talking about what you were. Life might look like further down the road like what this is going to mean for you all five or ten years from now. You know. I'm not I'm not exactly sure With the students that I That I'm going to school with if we're on the same page. I know that they're very upset about it as well I know really. It's really really difficult to not to work. So hard towards something in like you have this idea of being able to go to a commencement and bring your family and that kind of thing and in you don't get to do that I I don't think we're necessarily on the same page I think for me was especially hard given this my particular circumstances And thinking like finally like I will finally be able to graduate now and I will be able to show my parents my degree and that kind of thing that I'm going to graduate with honors and that's not going to be happening the same You know I it's it's it's it's tough For sure but I think that it's affected me uniquely In my financial situation as well as me having left school for for two years and so you were hoping to teach for America after yes. Yes and what's happened with that I? I was accepted into teach for America. I was accepted into the Dallas Texas region. And so normally what they do is they hold. What's called Institute in for I think it's like a month and a half you actually use training and you're being taught how to teach in that kind of thing From other people that are a part of teach for America. And that's not going to be happening the same way right now. I don't have all the information But I do know that I'm not going to be heading out to Texas right now. I know that part of it's going to be virtual on. That's what they're aiming. So if you think about sort of where we go from from here as a country Do you see that you are generation is going to be uniquely Impacted by this. Is there a worry that you have that no matter how long this lasts? It's going to have a deep Assure Act for longer than just a year or a few miles for sure. Yeah I think that. I think that I mean my personal belief. Is that in life? In order to be successful you have to have a lot of different things. Go right and a lot of little little things. Add Up to huge monumental things so it's not just me but when I'm thinking about in particular like young kids who are still in K. Twelve. Who are not in school right now. What does that mean for them? I'm also thinking about like kids whose parents are struggling financially. What does that mean for them? Like if you're not getting the proper education in the proper care that you need in a span of a couple of months that if you are already in a adverse situation that could mean very very bad things for you down the line. That's one of the reasons that I want to join. Teach for America. To be able to mitigate that but that's definitely a concern of a concern of mine. I really thank you for taking the time to sit down and talk with me and share your story. Oh absolutely it's been a pleasure. Please stay safe and take care. I will you as well Judy. Lewis is a senior at Howard University studying political science and English. Coming up next. Look at the stimulus relief checks. Who GETS THEM? Who Doesn't we've been hearing for many of you. My name is Alejandro Correa. I'm calling from Orlando Florida. I will not be receiving a check even though I am a twenty one year old adult who lived on my own work my own job and goes to college full time because my parents claimed as a dependent my name is Roseanne. I'm calling from Chasma Delaware and I work part time. For an International Montessori School. I write grants for two historic sites and for the La- Napa Indian tribe of Delaware. I seem to be too old to be hired anywhere and I don't qualify for the newest out. Give us a call anytime at eight. Seven seven eight my take. You're listening to politics with Amy Walter from the takeaway. This week. Many Americans expected to receive a twelve hundred dollar check from the government. This one time payment was supposed to soften the fallout of a severe economic downturn caused by Corona virus but as the employment rate continues to climb and many continue to struggle with getting through understaffed and overwhelmed. State unemployment offices many Americans find themselves in a precarious economic position. Then there's the fact that many people who thought they qualified for the funds have yet to receive payment. How long is an economics correspondent at the Washington Post? I talked with her about people who are falling through the cracks when it comes to receiving this payment from an economic term the twelve hundred basically is supposed to replace one week of pay in the United States so here we are with people who've been out of work now for a month or longer. Is it realistic to think that? Twelve hundred dollars is GonNa go very far absolutely not the idea though was that this would be sort of a supplement that it could get out fast. It was almost like the emergency grant if you will. That could get out the door before people could get on unemployment so they did do what a. Lotta people applaud. They boosted unemployment insurance by six hundred dollars a week. So that took the average unemployment insurance payment from a just shy of four hundred dollars a week up to almost thousand. So that's where most people are going to be able to get their wage. Replacement is through the unemployment insurance system but obviously as most of your listeners will will know the horror stories of phone lines are jammed websites or crashing. People can't even apply my favorite rinse. The saddest part is really Florida. Their system is so bad that they have government workers handing out paper applications so people have to like a drive through to grab a paper unemployment application and they reported last night. They've only been they've had like eight hundred thousand people try to apply in Florida and they've only process something crazy like eighty thousand. That's why they did this. Check to try to help those people who are going to have to wait a long time for unemployment and there are still a lot of people though who don't qualify for the twelve hundred dollars at all and and who is missing out on this one of the ones. That shocks people is high school seniors. These poor high school seniors. I don't know maybe it's good on a promise a weird times of for some people but you know there's no there's no graduation and on top of that there's no money so High School Seniors and college students are usually claimed as dependents on their parents tax return and anyone claimed as a dependent on tax return doesn't get any money so it doesn't matter if that college or high school students seniors has worked a job in in lost it that doesn't matter all that matters is if the IRS sees that you're claimed as a dependent on someone else's tax return. There's no money coming to you and there's no money coming to your parents. There's you're supposed to get this five hundred dollar per kid but that the way that Congress wrote the bill is it's five hundred dollar per child under seventeen. The other group that surprise people a lot I think so adult dependence of people who may be disabled and and maybe in their thirties or forties or fifties and. They're living with relatives again. They're also dependent so so they don't get money either. One that a lot of people are worried about. If you're low income you don't normally file a tax return. You do have to input your basic information on the irs dot Gov website so someone who is homeless for instance qualifies for this payment. But you're GONNA find a center in. Yeah Yeah So. There's complications another one. That doesn't get enough attention and I've got some emails about it if someone is married and into mixed down in a mixed is relationship If they personally might have the social security number and maybe being. Us citizen but if they're not married to someone with a social security number at it basically voids the whole tax return in this system. So you don't get any money you also talked to a lot of people about what they're going to spend this money on. I'd like for you to just give us a sense of what that is number one but also what it tells you about the economy writ large so a lot of people referred to as a stimulus checks. And I'm guilty of saying that to you but this really isn't Isn't stimulus stimulus is like extra money that you get the government would hope you would go out and spend the go bowling or buy shoes. Whatever these are actually relief payments? And you can see that. In the early spending Dina so I had one of the groups that was the first to process. The checks started processing a week ago last Friday. I asked them to tell me so. Far where people spending this money and the vast majority of it was going for basic necessities. And that just tells you that tells you that that money is being used more or less. How Congress was expecting it. It's it's You know it's to bridge these gaps because people really need this money for the bare basics right now when they've had potentially three to four weeks of no income coming in and so for talk about the economy bouncing back Write A so-called v-shaped recession. Where people once they get this money. They're going to go do all those things like Sabbath for going on vacations going to restaurants the fact that people are just covering the basics suggests that it's not gonNa look like that. I think you're absolutely right and I worry a lot that when I talk to people they say okay this money. It's going to help so much. I'm going to pay my April rent. I was talking to a woman who has to use some of the money. She's waiting to pay her rent on her trailer in a rural Virginia community. She told her landlord. You know when the check comes in I can pay you well. What she going to do in May or in June so I think we've given people this band-aid help them for a few weeks. And it's actually kind of similar with those small business administration loans for the small businesses. You know we've given them sort of ten weeks of aid but this looks like it's going to stretch on for a long time particularly in some parts of America and what happens the next month. I worry a lot about that. There's a lot talk as you pointed out about small business loans and that pool of money running out but do we expect to see Congress. Appropriating more money may be another twelve hundred dollar check for individuals as we get into month two or three of this pandemic. I don't know if it's going to be part of this next package which does look like. It'll be more emergency money for that small business program but I think reality is going to eventually set in even for some lawmakers that the idea was we would give small businesses all this money and then they're going to go out and Rehire workers. That is not what is happening when we still have twenty two million or more people and employees in this country in May and in June and that's stretching on. I'm sure those lawmakers are receiving the same calls. I am it's heartbreaking and you WANNA help well how their long thank you so much for coming on helping US walk through this. Thank you and please go to. Irs Dot Gov if you are unsure where your payment is. Heather long is an economics correspondent at the Washington Post as part of our continuing look. At how mayors across the country are tackling this pandemic. We called up the mayor of Lexington Kentucky Linda Gorden. Now when I think of Lexington thing about horses I mean it is the horse capital of the world after all but I know there's much more to it than that. I asked her to tell us about how her community and how cove in nineteen has impacted business and life as usual in her city. Lexington Fayette County. We are emerged government so we are the city and the county and we're about three hundred and twenty five thousand people and we are of course the home of thoroughbreds and thoroughbred farms and Bourbon and Kentucky basketball. You know. The horse industry is Just carrying on their foaling right now so the babies are being born and our Bourbon. Industry is interesting because if has started making hand sanitizer in general. We are doing very well here. I am a registered nurse by profession. I had a full profession in nursing and so early on before we ever had a case in Kentucky of the virus. I recognized that we needed to get our stakeholders together to share information. And we did that before we had a case and then when we had our first case on March the sixth we just cranked into high gear. And possibly because I'm familiar with how viruses spread. I immediately within that those first few days closed down. Our jails are senior center are nursing homes to visitors. We took some really strong action in the beginning. And was this unusual in in the state where you one of the first cities in the state to do this. Yes and it helped us with our distancing and with people Protecting these vulnerable groups. We did it with our homeless population. We immediately knew we needed to identify some other places where we could spread them out. And so we did that early on we have not here in Lexington We have not had a death from corona virus for a week. And that's were a good size city. We have been proactive. And I think that has helped us plus our population here. People have been really cooperative. People helping their neighbors. We are a highly educated progressive community with Very strong healthcare assets here and were known for a lot of those positives so people here have taken it seriously and as you pointed out you haven't had you said you haven't had any deaths this week. Do you feel like there is a flattening of the curve. Did you have a surge and now it's gotten better in Lexington We have stayed fairly flat. We keep going back to the kinds of actions we've taken and we have in Lexington. We have the University of Kentucky with their healthcare and some other major health care system so we are the largest healthcare hub in the state. If you think about it you'd say well we should have had more cases may be but Lexington Bonyan's for the most part I thank have pretty much now. They've followed the rules for quite a while and in the whole thing. Our highest daily case number was nineteen here in Lexington and now it has dropped considerably so we never did have a really high spike. The other thing we're looking at as we're talking with mayors across the country is the impact that this Pandemic is having on your tax revenue and lost revenue in general And what impact do you think that's going to have on the county as you look ahead to budgeting for this next next cycle? The revenue impact will be significant. I am right now in the middle of crafting my budget. I'll give my budget address to the Council on April Twenty eight and we have worked with our forecasters very closely at the local state and national level. We think our revenues will be down by tens of millions and it will require some Reductions in our budget and some of them will be very painful. Yeah where where is the the most painful reduction going to have to come from well That's difficult to say we will not. We will keep our our basic services. Mostly all police fire corrections garbage collection. Those kinds of things that people have to have. We'll see some hits to our parks budget and to our it'll be pretty much throughout government will be taking some reductions because we've got a we've basically got to make up tens of millions of dollars and my take on. It is that we will not go bankrupt which I believe. Some cities may we will stay healthy. We have a very healthy strong Economic Contingency Fund which people refer to as the Rainy Day Fund for Emergencies? Just like this one and my view on this is the long view that as a community and a city government. We've gotta stay strong for the future right so that it's not just about next year's budget it's about the next year after that and the year after that because I think the impact will continue for more than one year so The the reductions will be across government. And they'll be you know there'll be significant but in many cases the public won't notice you mean it because they are going to be things that maybe they hadn't been using before. How would they know I guess I am? Let's think about the biggest. What are the biggest ticket items in your budget for quite a while? We've had a lot of vacant positions that we held vacant to make our budget last year. But they're funded. You know when we have a vacant session at still funded. Were going to abolish threatens and that will save us a few million dollars just to give you an idea. It will have almost no impact. Because they've been vacant now for at least a year and a half what about schools schools so our city government does not have any oversight of school system here unlike other cities so the school systems are independent and they have a very different tax base. They have mostly property tax base. Will Mayor Gordon thank you so much for coming on and and speaking with me a really appreciate this? Thank you so much. I appreciate it to Linda. Gordon is the mayor of Lexington Kentucky. One more thought for me today. Each generation has its defining moment for the baby boomers it was Vietnam for Gen xers. The Cold War for the generation under forty their lives have been marked by almost perpetual amount of uncertainty instability and change nine eleven war the first African American president a recession the norm busting presidency of Donald Trump. And now this a global pandemic. We don't know what the long term impact is going to be on this generation but we can already start to see its influence in our current politics especially on the democratic side. Not that long ago choice. For Democratic voters was between a candidate of big structural change that was Bernie Sanders of course or a return to the status quo with life pre donald trump and. That's Joe Biden. Today thanks to Kovic. Nineteen don't have a choice. We are living in a shaken up and potentially permanently altered world the inequities ever economic and healthcare system have been laid bare and that has changed the way. Joe Biden is now addressing. The challenges ahead during the primaries Biden criticized Sanders for pushing revolution when what voters wanted were results but on a recent video chat with Bernie Sanders. The other day Biden stress. That we can't just go back to business as usual. Joe Biden is now embracing a conversation about structural reform. That would not have happened without this crisis. Making him more of a change candidate than he was earlier. That's all for us today. I want to give a big shout out to the people who made this show Patricia Amber Hall Alexandra Not Polly Arango David Gable and Lee Hill and a very big. Thank you to those who came into the studio to make sure this show got on the air that's been fairchild and Debi Dot Com. Thanks so much for listening. This is politics with Amy Walter on the takeaway.

Joe Biden US Amy Walter America Bernie Sanders Lexington Donald Trump Northwestern University School Judy Lewis Atlantic New York City Washington Post Congress Ross School of business IRS Paris Marriott
269: Wayne Baker, explains the art of asking to advance your business and personal goals

My Quest for the Best with Bill Ringle

40:34 min | 1 year ago

269: Wayne Baker, explains the art of asking to advance your business and personal goals

"Hi this is Wayne Baker author of all you have to do is ask and you're listening to my quest for the best with bill ringel listen up small business, standard senior managers and rising stars. Ringel here, host of my quest for the best were in this small business leaders, discover strategies and tactics to unlock your book potential on each episode I, bring you the inside stories from published and accomplished guests who wanNA share their knowledge experiences. So you can be more successful in leading your people managing Your Business and navigating towards more growth than more impact in a changing and challenging landscape. Let's dive in. Joining me today is Wayne Baker Dr. Wayne Baker is the Ross Pete today professor of Business Administration at the University of Michigan's Ross School of Business and faculty director of the Center for positive organizations, his professional focus is on social capital social networks generosity and positive organizations. His articles have appeared in the Harvard. Business. Review Chief Executive magazine and Sloan Management Review among others. A frequent guest speaker and management consultant when Baker is founder of give and take developers of the collaboration technologies based on principles from his latest book and Adam Grants Book give and take win is here to talk about all you have to do is ask how to master the most important skill for success welcome Wayne Thank you bill. Glad to be here when it's pleasure to have you and one thing I, love hearing and understanding about people getting to know them is when you were growing. Up who someone who influenced or inspired him that I'd have to say that it was my father. He actually was a very quiet man. He didn't talk very much. I kinda lead by example and He gave me the confidence that I could do whatever I wanted to do, and that's quite a gift from father to a son. It sure is do you remember time when that came into plane helped you make a decision or take an action that you probably wouldn't have without his support? So I remember I think it was in middle school. I was taking French and I do not have an aptitude for languages but I was trying and I was struggling and I needed some help but I have found the teacher to be rather frightening at any one to approach him but I talked to my dad about it. And he said, you know I bet if you go and make a request of him that you need some help and ask for his advice that he'd be pretty open, he would help you. So in a way I could trace the origin of my new book. All you have to do is ask to that episode back when I was in middle school and My father was right when I went and talked to French teacher and laid it out said I I'm stuck here a really need your help that guy is softened and he was very helpful. I learned more I got a much better grade in I learned the power of having the Kurds ask for what you need. Do you remember the name of your French teacher? Mr Lavallee while wing when I hear that story, it makes me think that the obstacle that was presented behind Mr. Lavallee actually became a gift with long lasting implications. Do you view it that way now it did because I had to muster the courage and I did that with my father's advice and realized that I was going to be a little vulnerable because you can't always predict how someone's going to respond. Back and I I've been a professional for over thirty years. Looking back I realized now what I was communicating to that teacher was. I Care I WANNA learn. This is important and I just need some more help and I have to say of any students ever come to mean convey that I'm really motivated to help them I really WANNA help them traffic for everyone listening who might be going through a Master's program or Undergrad program or teaching one just a reminder of what a difference that makes and how students do need to gather courage in order to ask for help many times. Now, as a professional interest, how did you come to be faculty director at the Center for positive organizations or the center for positive organizations was first created in two thousand and two when a couple? Of Faculty came together with some wild and crazy ideas no budget no resources no space no administrative support no nothing. We had these crazy ideas that might be a different way of looking at leadership and organizations where we would emphasize what we call positive deviants. That's kind of a funny term usually use the word devious. We think about you know negative deviants. But if you think about, let's say in terms of of health. So negative deviates might be that you're ill or you're sick and you want to get better so that you're healthy and healthy would be the norm. But what would be positive deviants? Maybe it's Olympic fitness. Or maybe it's really super health or longevity or whatever it might be. So take that and apply organizations. No Lot of our focus was on teaching how to solve problems. Now, you have to do that no solving problems get you from negative deviance to normal we. So what's beyond that but organizations that are really thriving organizations organizations whether they're big or small you know where people love coming to work where they could be their best selves where they feel like they're living their passion and their purpose. The really pleased to be a part of that organization, an organization great results you know it's financially sound customers are happy and. So forth, and so we look at these thriving organizations, those positive deviants and say, okay, what are those organizations? What are their characteristics? What are their attributes, what their processes? How do they do it so that they create great outcomes, Anna thriving workplace that creates those great outcomes Wayne. This is a really big time in positive psychology coming into the workplace and coming into the national consciousness. It's when Morty Seligman and me Khaleej Zik sent me lay established positive psychology as something crucial, recognizable and distinct, and they were building on the work of Carl Rogers and Abraham Maslov. It's when Jim Collins published good to great to what degree did. This publications and those thinkers influence your work in starting your center. Well, it certainly very compatible and oftentimes I'll draw a bell curve normal curve on the on the board. When I'm talking about this in with my students particularly I'm introducing these ideas in and I'll say if you WANNA get from good to great, you've got to be thinking a lot differently. So good is the center of the Bell Curve and grade is the tail that's off to the right. Those are the positive deviants, and so I make a direct reference to to that work. Another really being influenced for us was positive psychology can give you A. Quick example one of the tools that we developed at the Center for possible innovations. says. Okay. If you want to develop a both personally and professionally one way to do it is to think about what you're bad at your weakness is your deficits and you know how do you correct those or at least get better at those? We said, okay, that's important. Let's look at it in a different way. Let's look at as positive deepens to say what are you like and what are you doing when you are at your best and so we have a process called the reflected bestself reflected means that you go to your network and you ask a network to send you one or two stories with details details a really helpful when they saw you at your best and when you get these stories and I have all my MBA students do this every year. They get these stories and they get the see themselves at a new way. So they get some confirmation of strengths that they knew that they had. But also they discover some strengths that they didn't recognize his strengths which might sound a little strange. But if something is a strength, it's easy for you to do. So it's possible to kinda discount it. Oh, that's easy for me to do math. Let's say it's not easy for me to do math to just WANNA. Put that as a footnote. But you know that would be an example and sometimes people don't know the impact that they've had another people and it's another way that we see when we are at our best and so that be an example of a kind of tool that we use with individuals. We also use it in organizations of all sizes where. You know if you have a team or a, let's say a small to medium organization. Can have people go through this process help to identify your strengths. Okay. Now let's put you in a position that enables you to play to those strengths on a regular basis that may be shifting responsibilities around a little bit. You know you and I might have complementary strengths. I'll do more one thing in less of another new do some of that. And we find that when you do this, you make these kind of shifts. You know this idea of putting people in positions where they play to the strengths on a regular basis. That leads to much more thriving workplace more thriving organization people are happier more productive and you know the financial outcomes are there as well. It's amazing how this work has been out there for decades now and people are still inclined to look at people's weaknesses and many managers are having the shift and realizing that playing to your strengths and finding out what people do well and funding opportunities. For them to do that on a regular basis is really one of the most powerful ways to build a high performing organization and one that delivers better than average results consistently. Yeah. That's right and you know this is ingrained in us to focus on the negative think of think when you're you know your son or daughter or nephew or niece came home with a credit card with. If they come on with a credit card that would be an issue. Let's say they came home with a report card and the report card had four a as. A D- what you focus on as a parent you focus on the D.. Okay. What's the problem? Why are you getting D. here? What's happening in you kind of disregard all those as. I always people or take a ask them why are you getting the A and they'll say, well, I'm interested in the topic I raised my hand I asked questions I see the teacher after work I look forward to my homework I don't put it off. And then they discovered that they actually have the skills that they need to make improvements in the subject they're getting in Deion but we know at the report know I have a son who just graduated from high school and It was hard to make that shift. You know he always good grades but someone is good when he was in school and it would be. I wanted to just focus on the ones that seemed like problems but I recognize that opportunity to help them identify strengths by focus on. How did you get an A. in those classes? That's wonderful. What did you do? So again, it's it's in kind of ingrained in us to focus on the negative. I say it's also there's a evolutionary reason for it back in you know thousands of years ago focusing on the positive wasn't always prescription for longevity focusing on the negative, the tiger that's about to eat you. Or the storm that's coming or read our come you focus on the negative because at a survival value soon away we were evolutionary selected to focus a bit more on the negatives says important to know because you want us. Okay. That's might be ingrained but I can work against that in focus on the positive absolutely and all the we know brain functions and the response. To stress fits in here as well. We're oftentimes will feel like situations or life or death requiring fight or flight responses when it isn't actually the case and we just need to take action, but we feel blocked because this physiological response is making it seem like it's a much bigger deal than it actually is to ask for help for instance that's right. You know that. I think it comes into play there as well where oftentimes reluctant to ask and so as you know I have a chapter in the book talking about some common barriers or obstacles to ask him for what you need, and there's research that's really helpful. Updating those beliefs I could go to very quickly. One is that we often underestimate other people's willingness and ability to help. Many times what I've used a tools that are right about in the book someone will take me a sinus. I'M NOT GONNA ask for what I need because I. Know No one here can help me I always say never prejudged the capabilities of the group. You never know what people know or who they know because that's Elway can help I may not have the answer or the resource, but I can tap my network and get for that way. So the people are actually taking themselves out of the game before they even make the request he had. That's right and. That's happened a lot and I'll say you know the research shows that most people will help you. If you ask even does this classic experiment that was done in New York City where the participants in this study had to go out into the city and ask a complete stranger to Bauer their cell phone and they couldn't give a sob story or bag or explained all say could say was could I use your cell phone to make a call? So we think about how many people do you think you'd have to ask a New York City to get a cell phone. Well, it turns out that you'll have to ask one or two, and you get a cell phone. That's amazing. That was not what I was expecting it is no no everyone always estimates all you need to talk to five people ten people you'll never get a phone, but the fact is, is that even under those conditions, people are very likely to help. So you know the research is helpful to say that if you ask almost everyone will say, yes the idea of asking someone for their cell phone I actually did that a couple of years ago my family and I were traveling in Sydney and they wouldn't let us book a certain excursion unless we're using a local cell phone number. and. I had to ask someone and my family thinking well, no one's GonNa. Let use your cell phone I said let's find out. And I didn't have the preconceptions like in New York City I would have thought it have been really hard but I went to the desk manager and I, simply explained I need to use a cell phone because they need a local number in order to book. This thing may use yours and it was just as simple as asking really surprised me and it just came to mind as you described that particular experiment. When you know one thing I played out in your request is that you applied the criteria of an effective request there were smart criteria it's this is different than smart goals but you think about it in your request there it was very specific. That's the S. The M was the meaning the importance y you were making a request oftentimes, you leave that out. It's really amazing how often we just assume that people think are request is important. You never assumed explain why you did you ask for something to be done that's the action you ask to borrow that person's phone. You know was something that was strategically realistic. The person could do it and then you ask for it right Ben. which is the t in the smart criteria. So you apply at all of that quite naturally when you made that request I'm glad that I can add some data to the support of that structure. You had another experiment that you were going to tell me about what was that oh? Yes. Thanks that was another communist stump Jenner barrier that gets in the way of making a request, and that is that we you know sometimes we worry that if we ask for something that we're going to appear to be incompetent week, eight, durant can't do our jobs whatever, and that's a very, very common belief here. The research is helpful for updating that as long as you make a thoughtful intelligent. Smart request people will think you are more competent not less. So if you're armed with what we've learned from research that can help you get over the barriers to making requests for what you need but then you also need practice you know it's a habit to ask for what you need and you need the practice that also want to point out that it's important to do both giving in helping others and to ask for what you need and the book I call them the giver request. They generously help other people without regard if it's going to come back to them or not, and they make requests for what they need whenever they need it. That's the best place to be as an individual as a team or an entire organization. Let's back up. Can you talk about an example of someone may be who you've consulted with or have worked with through the center for positive organizations who was reluctant to ask for help but learn these techniques and learned how the motivations and methods could actually help them be more effective and turn around this area of their life by asking for help more often and asking more effectively. But one is apple that comes to. Mind and I write about in the book is Jim Malagasy. So CEO and chairman of the Board of Prudential real estate and relocation. So Global Company but headquartered in Scottsdale Arizona at time and I had met him earlier when he was in another company, not the CEO another company and had used some of the tools that is writing about the book such as the reciprocity ring, and he really learned about the importance of asking for what you need also as a leader being a role model of the behavior that you want. So he took this with him now prudential real estate at that time was in dire straits we're losing many many millions of dollars every year. Customers didn't like them. Their talent was leaving in droves, and so he was really faced with a tough situation and by applying a lot of these principles that we talk about at the center for positive organizations in that I write about in the book he was able to turn this company around in just two years and make it profitable winning jd power service awards and attracting and keeping talent. I can tell you one one example what he actually did very early on, and this was applying these lessons directly and adapting it to his circumstances. So this was his first keynote address to all of the associates who worked with producer real estate and relocation, and so there were several thousand and a convention center in Scottsdale Headquarters. But there are also thousands all around the world and he made a request he pulled out his cell phone. Held it up and he said, okay, I, want you to all pull out your cell phones and there was this collective grown throughout the convention center and you could probably hear it around the world as well. Because everyone thought he was going to say in turn that thing off is said I want you to make sure that it's on I want you to either text or email, and then he put up a text number and email address. Would like to send your ideas are recommendations about what's the best way to get a new client keep a client. How do you provide you know extraordinary service to clients. And so people were doing that and within thirty six hours, he collected a couple of thousand high-quality ideas from this network around the world by making that request and then people responding. So that's one very concrete example that's the the application you know you have to make the request an amazing. You know how many CEO's are reluctant to make that kind of requests. They usually say, here's our corporate goals and here's our strategy and those sort that's important. But how about put yourself out there making a request even made a request for his personal goals. You know he said that he's living in Scottsdale Arizona a lot of the time, but his family and two daughters lived in Connecticut. So he spent a Lotta time away from home traveling a lot. And so he laid out his personal goals and made a request for help with those as well very unusual for a CEO but he's a positive deviant and you're one of those positive leaders and so give me an example. He said look I don't i. You know I spent a lot of time here but I don't WanNa miss any important occasions or events with my daughters that's a goal. Another goal is I WANNA lose weight because I've been traveling a lot not exercising enough for eating as well as I would like. and. So those goals people responded to them and people understood when he had to go to. Connecticut Ford an important event or they were stopped by the cafeteria mayor here was eating a salad somebody's volunteer to be his running partner in the morning. You know and he was living the principles. He was that role model of asking for what you need and people are extraordinarily generous. When you do these seem like small asks that delivered outside results simply because of his title but there are things that everyone can do in any organization especially now when we're working from home and separated from each other making requests is actually a way of building those bridges and strengthening relationships. Isn't it? Oh, absolutely. You know one of the many many challenges that we have during this pandemic is isolation disconnection and loneliness, and so you know it's it's kind of always been a problem, but it's really become problem now because people are hunkered down usually in their homes, not going in and working individually I think this time it's absolutely critical not only for business effectiveness this but for mental health to reach out and to. Connect with people that you haven't talked with in a long time something like link. Then you're gonNA find anyone linked at our facebook reconnect with people be really important to do. One thing that we did for three months running is that my wife and I had the idea of creating a virtual happy hour on Fridays and we had we actually had a regular group of people who would. Would attend we just had a question kind of a you know to get people talking, and in that our we would have somebody who had volunteered before to give a a fifteen minute presentation on some fascinating topics. So somebody knew a lot about the pyramids egyptology someone talked about that someone was a member of the Audubon society were avid avid a sailors on the great. Lakes. And so I talked about that and it was just as wonderful opportunity for people to connect. oftentimes, you know like one persona neighbors up the street here who I would say, hi, when I walked by but never really had a meaningful conversation with but was having those conversations because. We made our requests for people to join this group. That's fabulous. I found that just by walking my dog admit more of my neighbors in the last three months than in less ten years of living in my town. Absolutely. I've kind of I I. See them go by my house. We don't have a dog and I kinda think maybe we ought to get one for that reason we're just have out water or ice or treats for dogs and they could stop buying. You could start a conversation that way. Oh, that's a good idea. That's a very good idea. So I love that you turned. Your Friday happy hour into a mini Ted talk. Yeah. It's really you know we wanted to do something that would be but the criteria was it couldn't be like super academic. It had to be something interesting or fascinating or curious or something, and people really responded to that. So many people presented in it and a variation of that would be to find a you know a ten fifteen minute Ted talk that you really love people would watch that. So you don't have that people willing to present to have an hour fifteen minutes to watch this fascinating Ted talk and then talk about a little bit. ADDS a little bit of substance and structure to it. So it's not just about you know just you know getting together and having a beer or whatever, but add some structure and I think one thing that we've learned is Edison. It's important to really facilitate sessions like this, and that was when one of the ways that we did it. I. Love that Wayne for so many reasons because you don't want to just allow entropy to take place because otherwise you'll just be exchanging banana bread recipes with people. or or stores bed how things are tough this actually is uplifting and nursing to have people share particular hobby or passion that they have a lot of. Knowledge in secrets in know them better I really liked that idea is a highlight that don thanks. It was fascinating I learned so much. Appreciated had opportunity to share my passion for sailing the Great Lakes. Yeah it was really wonderful thing to do and I think that there a lot. Of It, know I had been in some a zoo meetings where that weren't actively facilitated in the Renault. Guiding structure to it, and there is a lot of just kind of looking at a bunch of. Hollywood square pictures or the Brady Bunch pictures on my screen it was really awkward it. Also, these these sessions do need to be actively facilitate very true that speaking of structure I'd love it. If you would talk a little bit about the property ring, it's something that you've brought a lot of detail to in the book and you have an example in there with Christina, from a mania who didn't herself but her mother on her behalf made this request and it turned into something pretty remarkable can sure that surplus So the reciprocity tutoring is a team or group activity in which people are required to ask for something that they need but they spend most of their time helping other people. So as both giving an asking one of the reasons that it works as well as all the tools I write about in the book is that normalizes asking it normalizes requesting and a lot easier to do it. If everyone's in the same psychological boat, if everyone knows it, everyone needs to make a request as part of the the rules of this activity than people find it a lot easier to. Do. Love, better than you know spotlight's on you you're. GonNa make requests for Roger's GonNa. Watch you. You. You know but you know if everyone's going to do it and so we had that insight when a show Baker? My wife and I created the reciprocity rain twenty one years ago it's now been used all around the world It's been used in twelve different languages. It seems to be universal works in any culture and it's a process by which people ask for something that they need and people respond to those requests. So it sounds very simple particular recipe for doing it. But you know when we first created this I thought the getting people to help to be generous was going to be the problem. So it's always start with a little introduction little lecture on imports of generosity. You know that was never the problem people were incredibly generous but everyone was struggling with coming up with something to ask coming up with a request and so that's what I came with a smart criteria and some of the prompts at are right about the book ways of helping people to make requests that think about what's trying to accomplish resource that they need and so forth then to state it in the reciprocity. So the reciprocity is using lots of places. One is at its used an inside. One of Premier Business School in France. So hold that thought, there's a little girl named Christina who lives in Romania. And she had a birth condition called cranial sinister hostess. So the human skull is made up of multiple bones and they're joined by cranial sutures, which are these fibers, tissues that join those different bones together. This is a brilliant design because it allows the skull to expand as the brain and the head grow. Every now and then one or more of those sutures will fuse prematurely and the head can't expand. So only bad things come from this. So if the head can expand, you end up with amid pinhead and a distorted face, which would mean a lifetime of social isolation and ridicule it can lead to learning delays line this seizures even death chances of finding someone who could correct this condition in Romania were remote. Fortunately Christina had an OTT by the name of Felicia who lived at worked at NCI and she was actually being trained the run the reciprocity ring for the MBA students they use it for all the MBA students faculty or staff trained to run this activity, and as part of the training you're required, participate, and to make a real meaningful request and so she made a request on behalf of her little niece Christina in Romania described those situation and said we. Need to find surgeon who could correct this condition? Will it turned out the resources that they needed was right there was a an adjunct professor. So you know someone working part time in the business school teaching but. His main job was a physician in a local hospital. It turned out to be a pediatric hospital in fact, the oldest one in the world that's in Paris. and. He said I know we have surgeons who can correct this condition introduction was made and were those two ways you could help. You've got the resource or you could tap your network. Introduction was made Christina family flew to Paris. She had the surgery it was a complete success. And she sits been back a couple of times you know for a physical in everything is completely normal. In fact, either Pitcher of Christina on my desk delay just after the surgery that I keep as a reminder of the importance of asking for what you really need. Because when you do even miracles can happen. That's such a great story Wayne because it's so tangible and what a profound difference at mead just simply asking so that when the exercise came up, Felicia actually asked for something that was very much on her heart on her mind to put out there even knowing that maybe no one could do this. But surprise surprise somebody was there who actually? Could make the introduction and opened up a pathway to the operation that really made a profound difference in her nieces life. Absolutely, and that's you know I have a thousand stories like that. Maybe not quite as dramatic. But incredible stories when people have had the courage to ask for what they need really amazing things have happened plus there were lots and lots of stories lake in a business context of people who make this use some of the tools that are right about could be the reciprocity ring standups, huddles the troika's all the stuff I read about. A give you a good example. So a colleague of Mine I've met through our central proposal organizations works for a a global chemical company. He's headquartered in Allentown. Pennsylvania. He runs one of the labs who succumb chemists running the labs and they have like thousand laps all around the world. And so he implemented some of these principles in what he called a rapid fire sessions. In fact, I was so taken by this I write about in the book is so what he does is that he was well, it's based on the assumption that okay. We're working our lab in Allentown Pennsylvania and we might run into some issue with a chemical process or some reaction whatever we don't quite understand, but the chances are. In some other lab in this vast network, someone is already solved this problem they've run into this problem right the problem how do you find that? So he is to these rapid fire sessions that are done virtually. This was actually being done prior to the pandemic. So He's continued it afterwards and they'll go through a set agenda things and so forth. But then at the end people make requests for what they need and what they discovered that the solution to about any business or scientific probably run into is out there somewhere in the network but you know you gotta ask otherwise people don't know. So there's an example in a business context of. You know the power basking. It's such a great example too because it shows that even people who are highly educated chemists chemical engineers, scientists who may think that they are expected to know these answers come into a culture where this is an ongoing activity and with frequency, you get the chance to develop the habits as well as to normalize the asking and giving help because I'm sure people feel delighted to be able to. Offer help to others as well as delighted to get solutions to their own problems. As we talked before about senator positive organizations One of the foundations is positive psychology and a focus on positive emotions. They're actually to positive emotions in asking for giving and receiving help. One is that we kind of have a warm glow of giving that. It feels good to help other people and I think we're hardwired to do that. And when we receive help the positive emotion that we experienced his gratitude for help received and I've done some research with a colleague of mine where we looked at many many many thousands of decisions whether or not to help someone you know someone hadn't helped you and we found that gratitude for help received is one of the biggest motivators to help someone else is at Sony people help me. So when I'm asked I WANNA pay it forward and help other people. Could you break down the glow of? Giving to emotional terms because gratitude is of recognizable emotion is the glow of giving something along the lines of proud of having something of value to contribute with I. Think Pride would be part of it. Also happiness even joy. If you could help in a in a really big important way, it could even be more less intense emotion like contentment with the fact that you help someone. So covers a spectrum and the intensity may depend upon the situation and a number of other factors, but I like that. We've now put into motion terms because we're talking about the emotions and people can relate to that through that language more effectively. When are you ready for the my quest for the best lightning round? Absolutely let's do it earlier. I asked about somebody who inspired you're growing up when you were a teenager what's a song that inspired you I'd have to say a this is gonNA sound very strange I listened to the doors a lot when I was a teenager and light, my fire would have to be. There song and if you could put a summary or slogan of your work on a billboard that business leaders and everyone who could benefit from it had to read each warning. What would it say? Well, it's been said that it's better to give than receive. But I say that it's best to give and receive in need to ask receive and give Nice distinction. What would you say is the best hundred dollar purchase you've made professionally personally in the last six months, it would have to be a replacement. For my drone because that's something I could do while I'm socially isolating and I do it my son who finds an interest in flying the drone and what would you say is the most important habit or routine or belief that you've stopped in the last year that's brought you the most pleasure or personal satisfaction. It would be a this is a sound, very pedestrian it would be to stop staying up so late and to get myself better to reasonable time. So I can wake up at a good time and be productive in the morning and what helped you with that just recognizing that that was something that was impacting your day it recognizing that not being satisfied with how I felt like in the morning. If I had to force myself up early to for meeting and realizing that you know these are habits in that yet if you change the structure and commit to that, you know I often talk about the the behavior of first principle, which is that if you want. To change your beliefs and attitudes about things. But you can change your behavior, and if you change your behavior, you will update your attitudes in your beliefs. In fact, that's a principle throughout my entire book. Was that people often say you know I'm not going to engage in that activity because I know it's not gonNa work I don't believe it. I always say, Hey, look I don't you don't have the believe anything would you just do it? You know here's the steps would you just do it and they'll say yes and at the end they always come back and say you know what? Now I believe now I get it, and the reason is, is that experience is the evidence that they needed to believe it in fourteen ninety two Columbus said I don't know whether you believe or not that the earth is flat but I believe that I can reach the India's by selling West. Any brought imperial pinnacle evidence it didn't quite reach the is, but he did show that he didn't fall off the ends of the Earth or met with catastrophic dragons. Get bits does a good example when what is it that people struggle the most with in your professional experience and working people from all sorts of activities and industries? What do people struggle the most with in asking for help I? Think there are two things one is an. Understanding of the why why you're asking for something or why you need to ask for something maybe that's a better way of putting it. So I talk about a couple of different ways of doing it in one of the most powerful ones is called visiting an it's writing a detailed specific narrative of what your life looks like say two three, five years from now you would want to include personal details, professional details, family life, and so forth. And when you have that vision of the life, you WanNa have a few years from now you have a much better sense of what you need to get there. You have intermediate goals you need Okay Wolf. I'm going you if I want to do that then I, need to do this now and eighty to make these requests. So having an idea of where you're. Going that goal is really important. Sometimes, people don't have that in mind, and then the other would be giving yourself permission to ask for what you need. So the title of the book is All you have to do his ask, which is you know catchy but it simplistic. But what it means is that also you have to if you do ask people will help you. But you've got to get past that barrier have to climb that mountain get past those obstacles often stand in the way those mis beliefs or incorrect assumptions, and then you've got to apply some of these criteria and practice it, and then you'll find that you get the inflow of resources ideas. You know support money that you need as an entrepreneur as a small business owner. Or as a the elite of big company when you've also include a hint in your title, that is the most important skill for success and anytime, you see the word skeleton very excited because they've realized that even if I don't have that ability I can learn it. I learn it for people who have developed that skill. 'cause we're not born with skills at something we. Developed. We may have talents at Lendus ourselves to develop things more quickly or more naturally than others. But if it's a skill, we can all make progress towards it by learning from others who have studied and researched and found ways to convey what makes it effective and that's something that you've done both in your book as well as in the interview. So WanNA thank. You so much for joining me on my quest for the best today. Well, thank you bill. It's been a real pleasure talking with you and I wish you all the best wink before we say goodbye for now. Tell me where's it we could find out more about you and your work online line. You could find out more about the work and my book at the. Website for the book, which is all you have to do is ask dot com. So that's the book website and you'll find a lot of free resources they are free assessment articles podcast and so forth fabulous, and we're gonNA link to all of the special people and resources that we covered in the interview as well as your social media and other associations and organisations are. Involved with such as Gravitas. So we're going to put that in the show notes that people listening to this can go to one resource and find easy ways to connect with you your work and everything that you're involved in professionally. That's wonderful. Thank you bill. It's been a pleasure Wayne. Thank you once again for joining me on my quest for the best great. Thank you. Hi, this is bill and I hope you've enjoyed this podcast interview in my question. The best be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcast, Google, play Stitcher, or your favorite APP. So you never miss an episode full of stories, tips and insights for the Bishop's small business leader. Now, I, have a quick request for you. Please go to apple podcasts and I tunes and give us a rating and review. My team and I really appreciate the feedback and we read every comment find out what you enjoy and what you want as we develop new content course materials and a few surprises that we have in store for you when you rate and review my quest for the best you other small business leaders find US subscribe to the podcast and joined the community. You can get the insiders enewsletter for small business leaders. By going to my quest for the best dot com, we have chosen a challenging path to make a living and make a difference in the world and I believe it's important share top notch resources with each other, which is why you'll find new episodes from top thought leaders and small business experts on my question the best each week. Thanks for listening and being part of the community. See you on the next episode.

Wayne Baker Christina apple New York City Sloan Management Review Mr. Lavallee CEO faculty director Harvard bill ringel Chief Executive Jim Collins Ted Felicia University of Michigan Ross School of Business professor of Business Administ Arizona consultant
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48:17 min | 2 months ago

Ep 103 First Date Stories Author Jodi Klein

"Think about who you were twenties versus who you are in your forties or fifties. You're a different person and you know so much better who you are. What's important to you and you show up without being concerned about the unimportant things welcomed midlife. Mix tape the podcast. I'm nancy davis co and we're here to talk about the years between being hip and raking one. We do buluan to whom he was taking slung. We move on this episode of the midlife mix tape podcast is brought to you by audible. Get a free audiobook. Download and thirty day free trial at www dot audible. Trial dot com forward slash midlife. Mix tape over one hundred eighty thousand titles to choose from for your iphone android kindle or mp three player and you know what one of those one hundred eighty thousand titles is my book. Thank you project. Cultivating happiness letter of gratitude. At a time. It's about a year. I spent writing. Thank you letters to people who had helped shape or inspired me from my. Ap english teacher from high school. Who i hadn't seen in thirty years to my husband who. I'd seen five minutes before i started writing the letter. It gives readers a blueprint for doing it themselves and explains the science about why gratitude and happiness work so well together. I hope readers will find it to be a tool that helps them emerge from this difficult period. A little bit more gracefully so go to audible. Trial dot com forward slash midlife. Mix tape for your free audiobook. Hey everyone ed welcome back to the midlife. Mix tape podcast. I'm nancy davis co the creator and host of the show. And i've missed you over the past month while i was out on vacation but don't you feel like absence. Probably made our hurts grow fonder for one another. I think it did that. Topic of mutual affection is actually a specialty for today's guests. Do you see what i did there. Did i segue like a boss. Yes i still got it. My guest today is jody klein. The author of first date stories women's romantic and ridiculous midlife adventures which comes out on september fourteenth. Twenty twenty one a demanding career desire to find the right. Mr yes for her lead to jody becoming an alumna of nearly four hundred dates over the course of twenty six years. She founded first date stories. Both podcast and blog as a platform for gen-x women to share their tails and wisdom. So that others can overcome the trials of dating and midlife and find the long-term love they seek. Jody's a graduate of uc davis and has an mba from the ross school of business at the university of michigan. And she lives their husband san francisco. Yes spoiler alert. She found her husband. She found mr. Yes now after i had spoken with jodi. I was so intrigued by the book. I really enjoyed reading first stories and love talking with her about it. And then i thought you know who i bet has some good i eight stories. The people listen to this podcast. So i sent out a call on facebook and said real quick. Everybody semi great first date story and as usual yet delivered so stay tuned all the way to the end of the episode. Because i'm going to share some of your stories about memorable magical and some pretty bad first dates but for now fix your hair. Check your teeth for broccoli. We're sitting down with jodie klein to discuss i eight stories. Welcome to the midlife mix tape. Podcast jody klein. Thank you for combat. Today god every on the show is terrific to be here. I'm such a fan. Well that's nice of you to say. I have to tell you. I have been so intrigued by the book or state stories. We're gonna talk a lot about it but the first question for you. Jodi klein is what was your first concert. And what were the circumstances. My first concert is one that i will never forget. It was sticks paradise theatre tour at the oakland coliseum in oakland california. Oh my god but tell me all about. It was the last show on their world tour. I went with two girlfriends. We were dropped off. We waited in line for six hours and as the line grew. So did our anticipation we rushed in to the coliseum. We grabbed our seats. We have pretty good seats but we did not spend much time in those seats because the show was so amazing that we ended up heading down to the floor and the light. Show the the singing the whole fang. It just blew my mind. And how old were you. I had just finished my freshman year of high school See i think fourteen is the formative year. That's that's the age. Everybody should get to see their first. Show 'cause it really means something it did. I feel so fortunate to have had that as my first show. I really couldn't have asked for a better debut concert experience while now. I'm gonna ask you a question about gen-x and music and i want your a dating specialist so i will ask you this. Did we not perfect. The mix tape as a dating artifact that in fact caused people to fall in love. we did. i'm if you're seeing. Raise your hand if you either formulated or received mixed tape that was designed to make love happen for sure. In fact i seem to remember a movie or two where the mix tape was essential in the story line to the woman and i think many of us had those tapes given to us and some of us like me may have it still in a box somewhere. Totally it actually. I don't know why. I just remembered this out of the blue but when i was in high school there was this boy that i liked and he was going on a road trip because his grandma had passed away. He was going to grandma's funeral. And i didn't know him very well but i thought he was a nice guy and i made a mix tape and he came back and he immediately broke up with me he was like. There's no future here. Because i like you too much. The mix tape was so good that it scared me. And i'm not ready for that kind of commitment which began a whole run of boys who break up with me saying i love you too much to date you any longer. So it was like nancy from ages fifteen to nineteen. But i couldn't help it. I make a good mix tape if it scares you. That's on you buddy. Exactly if they can't take it you needed to move on. Have you had a mixed tape figure into any of the first state stories. You've a first date mix tape. That's a lot. that's too much pressure. It's way too much pressure. Yeah i would. I would be like sir. You don't know me well enough to create a mixed tape for me back off. Yeah i have not heard any of those stories. No i think you call if you do i will. I certainly will all right well. Jody we're gonna talk about your book for state stories. But i wanna start with a little background because there is also a podcast and blog that are related. And it's kind of a chicken and egg thing. And i hope that you could explain to everybody. Who's listening how these all interrelate and came to be to do that. I'd like to set the context. And that is that i created all this because there are millions of uncoupled women who are gen xers whether they've never been married or in a long term committed relationship or divorced or widowed these ladies do not get enough recognition or connection. There not celebrate enough. They're not supported enough. Not what they deserve. And i'm trying to fill some of that void. First of a women are overlooked gen-xer overlooked and genetics women. It's like the perfect terrible storm and we started talking about that when ada calhoun was on the show with them. Why we can't sleep about. Why gen-x women. Are you know trying to make changes. Because it's it's so right in our faces that were not being served with. The answer is in the attention that we deserve. So i hear you. I totally hear what you're saying. It really goes back to when we were little girls. A lot of us have created trailers movie trailers in our minds of what our lives. We're gonna look like from the time that we were little girls and of course this is not representative of everybody. But i think a lot of us thought okay. We will go to high school. We will go perhaps to college or get some other training. We will get a job and then when we are in our twenties or at the latest or early thirties a partner is going to show up in our lives and we will be coupled and we will live ongoing as a couple person and that is a result of all the media. The books movies tv shows that we used to see in the seventies and eighties. Because let's face it. No disney princess got divorced disney princess. Let a kingdom no disney. Princess ran a company right. I mean seriously. The princess's let down their hair. They ate poisoned. Apples lost their slipper and a prince always came to rescue them right right. Sure how did you go from that understanding to deciding that you were going to put together this forum for sharing stories about dating midlife. Well we as women connect around our stories. It is way we come to understand ourselves and each other it is way in which we give and receive empathy. Its way in which we validate our our lives. But what happens when you are still in the dating world and a lot of the people who you once ran the dating world with your girlfriends from when you were in your twenties and thirties suddenly. Aren't there anymore and you're kind of alone warrior in your own mind in this this journey and you don't hear those stories. Well you then. Don't get that validation and you start to feel disconnected and perhaps questioning things and lonely. Then you could very well pull out of the dating world because you don't want it to be such a solo journey or if you find yourself coming out of unexpectedly of a long-term what you thought was a long term relationship. Then you may not reenter the dating world. So there's that truism now the next truism is that you have to show up for a first date to meet the person who you will be coupled with so if you've stepped away from the dating world you won't do that right you gotta go on a first aid. A second attempt a hundred in order to be with that partner so my idea was to couple those two concepts together to have women share their stories with other women about how they kept showing up for what they hoped would be love or a meaningful friendship or companionship and in doing so share their learnings as well. So that the women listening to the podcast and soon reading the book would learn from them. Enjoy the tails not feel disconnected and continue pressing forward if it is in fact important for them to find a loving partner in their lives right because we're acknowledging not everybody wants that and just because you're single doesn't mean you want to be coupled so anybody who's listening. I'm not saying you have to do this. But if you want to ensure as easier. I think to do it with some company. Some validation that you're not the only one who was out there showing up for the coffees in the glass of wine with the stranger. I couldn't agree with you more. I have been there. I came to a point in my life. Where i thought okay. I'm not going to live a couple of life. And i m okay with that and i am one hundred percent believer that a woman can and should live a very meaningful joyful fulfilling life without a partner in it. Yes and i think that goes also for those of us who are married. You have to be comfortable with your own company. Be comfortable inside your own skin. So where do you find. The guests who stories you share across an and just to just to reiterate the the podcast the blogger booth also called. I eight stories. How do you find your guests in. How do you select them. Because i'm sure you hear a lot of stories that maybe are not as educational having read the book. I thought it was great and it presented a really wide variety of circumstances. So i'm sure that as you are deciding what story to share further. You're looking for okay. Does this one have a learning moment in it. Basically exactly. I kind of categorize them into three hopeful. Stories hilarious stories and horrific stories. Almost enjoy a horrific story right audit this can i can i mentioned in the book. There's a story of a guy who shows up for a date and he's like whoo off. The clock is a professional man. And then he just like this is where i get all my swearing out. I like to sway are and then. He curses his way through the entire rooted. Shit sir that is very rude. Oh my god that poor woman on that date yes that poor woman and the way he spoke to her and the way he treated her was awful. But hey it made for a memorable story early. Tell there was no ambiguity there exactly so i do receive a lot of different people's stories and we take a look at them and try to figure out. Are there nuggets in here. That listeners can benefit from. Is it entertaining. Is it something that will help. Move this whole initiative forward now. I want to mention that the stories in the book are entirely different from the stories in the podcast so when it came to selecting the stories for the book the idea was to put a collection of stories together that different dating takeaway. Tips could be drawn out because none of the stories there have overlapping tips. And i author those tips based on my personal very long journey in the dating world and so kind of gives an overall view to someone reading it of all different aspects of things that they can think about as they are out there in the dating world because this is really about just helping women become in the know. Confident daters and have fun right. Yes so he's chapter of the book is a first date story and then it includes the rest of the story so you find out what happened to the couple after the fact some of which were they never saw each other and then the dating takeaway tips and i mean you mentioned based on your own experience. Was it also from stories. You've heard i know you have dating. Experts come on the blog to suit brought in a wide variety of viewpoints. Kind of look at. What are the things we can learn and do better. You know dating going forward. Yes so. I did author a first draft of them all and then run them by professional dating coaches. There were two people who worked with me on this project. Through through the time it was in development so we ought to professionals. I on them and hopefully they will be helpful to read and they're really good. Common sense like a be punctual. Yes you have to show up on time. But i really appreciated that. They also upheld the dignity of both people really. I mean there is the situation like the guy who swearing where obviously the first priority is to make sure that you know. You don't feel disrespected. And you feel like you are Obviously physically safe but also uphold your dignity. You keep your wits about you and you you say goodbye and then also if it's not a fit. There's no need to belittle the other person. So i appreciated that. There was kindness kindness and also a recognition. That we we should have high standards for ourselves and and for how we treat other people will thank you for pointing that out and really kindness is at the core because you should show up as your best self when you meet anybody in life and to show up and meet someone and exude kindness. Even when they aren't always kind bank. And if it's not appropriate and you can't take it any longer it like you said you. Just leave the bathroom until your girlfriend. Text you that it's an emergency exactly or do the call or whatever yes and they may even have apps for that if they don't they ought to but they do right. I think do yes so having read all these stories you summarize some of the biggest challenges for dating at midlife. And i thought a couple i had not thought about Appreciative would you just throw out a couple of the The big reasons that you found that it is so challenging or that it can be challenging to date at midlife so i coined the phrase dating deterrence to mean just some little bumps the people can encounter the keep them from either keeping on in the dating world or reentering and there are six in all quickly run through them and the first is just sheer economics of supply and demand. When you're in your forties or fifties there are not as many single people out there as there were when you were in your twenty s but the good news is in some ways for you as someone in the dating world. There are people coming out of relationships so there are new people can time around. Merry go round. Started exactly and they're hopefully wiser about how to be a relationship with someone else The second is just life gets more complicated when your genetics at what's the one the cut jumped out at me. I'm like oh right. Like as stressed and frantic as i can be to add dating on top of that would be really hard. I had not given that full credit before. So i'm glad you pointed that out. Yeah absolutely and the third is societal pressure. I spoke about this movie trailer. We had in our heads coming out a early in our lives and it was formed. But you get to this point in life and there's probably some point going to be somebody who lovingly says to you. Are you still single. Why are you still single. We all agree something to do that to each other. Could we all everybody listing. Just don't ask that question. That's not very nice. You might be well intended. But it's think about the impact exactly it often is well intended but it's never received and then the fourth one is the we live in an age. Society and society celebrates youth over maturity. Unfortunately so often say often. Sometimes you encounter men. I if if you are looking to date a man who is in his profile. Let's say sixty and he's looking for someone who is thirty so he is not looking for a mature woman who is really more age appropriate for him and that is too bad for him. I say feel sorry for him. Because there are tremendous mature women. Gen-x women out there in the world and so ageism plays a role and then there's the fifth deterrent is the fear of getting hurt. Again you know. It's unfortunate that we feel hurt when relationships come to a close but you know they. Something adore has to close for another to open right. It takes bravery to keep going i so much respect for people who just keep staying open and pursuing this and yeah i. It's a character building thing for people who already have a whole lot of character so exactly i agree and for the women who have been dating longer than others or the longer than they typically typically thought they would you know i have actually coined the term season for these ladies and men because they know their stuff even out there for awhile and you know they they are as i said earlier to be honored and celebrated as you've acknowledged and the last one is community support and we've touched on that already talk a little bit more about that. It is harder to find those women. Your friends are probably from from early. Days are probably busy In their jobs busy raising families all of that and they're just not available to go out to talk about what's going on your dating life in life in general and so you may find yourself needing to meet women at that point in life who are available to do things and be present and sometimes it's it's easier to find men because there's an app in than it is to find women and of course the pandemic has made this all harder. It was going to say. That's the big number seven that kind of overrules all the rest of them. What were the stories that you heard over the past year. How did people work around it if they did they did and they did it really skillfully and they did it with bravery there are whole slew of these stories on the podcast. I will mention one of them. And it's a story about a woman named penny who's in her early forties and she's a special ed teacher. She also does something called. 'cause play do you know what the husband liaise yes. Do you want to tell everybody who is listening to. You might not know as i understand it. Caused a is a community of folks who dress up as different characters from a different comex and other genres right and they come together at khan and have a blast around these and obviously there was no comecon during the pandemic so a lot of these people move to facebook and created facebook groups and penny asked some people in a facebook group to create a video for star wars day for her kids in her class and a guy named jay created a video and they started to talk and they started to text and he lives on the other side of the country from her in zoll happening during the pandemic during lockdown. And so they start doing texting all day and then they turn to calls in the may turn to video calls for hours and then she has a birthday. They've never met in person. She invites him to her birthday with her family on zoom and the two of them have never met in person but they eventually do and he flies across the country to win the restrictions start to lessen and long story short they are now a couple. Awesome cursed a penny absolutely. We've talked about the things that make it particularly difficult for people dating in midlife. Is there anything that is advantageous to being in your forties and fifties. When you're dating anything that makes us better at it absolutely. This is not an doom and gloom scenario whatsoever. I mean think about who you were in your twenty s versus who you are in your forties or fifties. You are a different person and you know so much better who you are. What's important to you and you show up often without being as concerned about the unimportant things that you used to be carrying right so you show up with more confidence and you're more present for you and that is a very powerful thing about dating at this point in life. I feel like one of the things that comes out of these discussions. That i have is that a lot of us understand our boundaries. So much better. We know what we're good at. And we know what we accept. We knew where we are our best selves and we also know what doesn't fall into that definition and we can say no a lot more easily so i wonder if people at midlife have that advantage of being able to say at the end of a first date nice guy not a fit you know or this isn't gonna go any further or it is and just have that clearer sense. I feel like. I think back to people i knew in my twenties and myself in my twenties. Sometimes you let the relationship role on for an off longtime even though you knew it was gonna go to exit ramp eventually but it was just it was just easier to just let it roll till it. Maybe maybe the wheels came off. Do you think that's true. I think it's one hundred percent. Yes fiction daters more efficient daters and as we age we come to understand that time is also precious right So does it make sense to spend that time with someone who might be a very nice person but not your person and i mean spent time with them romantically certainly sending time them general fine. But if you're looking for a partner that is not the best way to spend your time necessarily well. I loved the collection. Because i think in every whatever kind of relationship you're in married single whatever i think we're all curious how other people are living their lives. How other people are navigate. Some of the same things that we navigate so. I thought it was just really. I think anybody who's single and feeling frustrated with dating or just wants to know that there are part of a bigger community. Would enjoy this book. But i i mean i. I'm married twenty nine years. And i enjoyed it too and i was like i need to up my game on that front. Like my dating takeaway. My husband's going to bear the benefit. Maybe i'll show up on time somewhere for change and in fact one of the stories. I got all excited. Because i was sure they were going. On a first date. To where andrew i went on our first date and then the guy got the tickets to the punk show the night before and ended up taking her like an earlier for a state but when they were going to hear music in tempe. I'm like that's what we did on her state of but they were going to choose. So wow that's where you went are wide won tickets on the radio to a google dell's concert in nineteen ninety nine hundred ninety and Walked up to this boy who had been falling around campus for days and said hey i got these tickets. You want to go to the show with me. And the goodell's were so bad in one thousand nine hundred that we left went got coffee and that was the first eight. So thank you for being terrible t ninety dolls. Exactly what a great story so through all these conversations that you've had about first dates. Has there been any kind of sort of overarching advice that you would be able to share with my listeners. Absolutely so much like you at the end of my podcast for state stories. I asked the guest what advice she has for listeners. And i have received a whole slew. A whole range of advice as you'd expect however there are really four bits of advice that have bubble to the top that have most often been mentioned in one especially it really touches on a lot of what we've discussed. It is first off. Look at dating as a growth experience right and just go in with no expectations. The second is we've talked about this to leave. If you're uncomfortable. The third is to take care of you and know who you are when you show up and just are living life and the the big one. The one that i've heard most often is to be open. Be open to meeting. Different types of people be open to where you meet them. Be open to what you want and it may not be what you think you want to really be open in your life and how you approach things that's great. What is the date. The books coming out. it's coming out. September the fourteenth but that it's available for preorder now so go go ahead and put that in your shopping basket so you worked as a marketing executive for many years. At what point did you think. Hey i want to support single people at midlife and start a media company because it's not an obvious like not everybody does that. No it is not that obvious for sure. I'd been a marketing professional for a lot of years I worked in high tech for for many years and then i left to start my own marketing consulting business. And when i left to do that. I took on a dual track career. I did marketing consulting and idid property management. And as i was moving forward through all of this i came to the point where i thought there's just gotta be somebody who addresses this issue. This void that. I spoke about earlier to try to fill it and at the same time i was part of short story writing group that i had co founded just as a creative outlet and we wrote about all sorts of different topics but i just kept coming back to the topic of for states and then i started to ask people about their stories randomly and they started to tell them to me and i would continue to write these stories on and off and then it got to one point where i realize based on serving high done because remember. I'm a marketer of other people that there really was the need here and so i decided to put the consulting on hold and to go forward with this state stories initiative. I love that. Because i think a lot of us at this stage of life have another passion here another call and it feels really scary to pursue it sometimes there. There's the road more traveled more clearly marked. And then there's the one you took. There's a lot of people take. That's really just trusting. That things are gonna work out. You'll figure out what you're going to do with that. And i think. I think it's great that you because the work that you're doing now benefits other people. That's why i'm doing it. I really want to help women. I have walked down this path. I have lived that journey. And i was out there dating in my a late thirties into my late forties. I just kept making. This has got to be better is this has got to be more connected than it is. There were so many fabulous women out in the world. where the heck are they. How do we bring them together. And so what happened hansi. Actually as i was fortunate enough to attend a fundraising event where anita hill was speaking and i sat in the audience in. I marveled at her and i thought to myself. Wow this woman. She did not ask to be sexually harassed. She did not ask to be called before the judicial senate committee. She did not ask to become the butt of jokes. She knows bit but what does she do. She turned it on its head. She took what happened to her life journey and she became an advocate for women who are the receiving end of sexual harassment. Now i am no need a hill. I'm not comparing myself to her in that way. I'm just saying she inspired me. And and i was in kind of the formative stage of all of this. I had just started to think. Okay this book is gonna take a while to come out. What else can i do here. And then i heard her talk. And i said yeah i. I need to move forward with us right well. It's that it's that midlife question. We have of what is my purpose. What is my legacy and you know for you. It's it's creating this connection and creating this sense of understanding that as you said of is missing for so many women at midlife. So what's the most surprising thing you've learned in the process. While the most surprising thing. I guess is that it takes a heck of a while to produce a book. What did you start on. I eight stories. I really started full on of four years ago. And when you're taking a more traditional publishing path it takes awhile so you mentioned. You dated in your thirties late forties. You found mr. Yes so as jody. Characterizes them. As mr know mr maybe and mr yes so do you think that hearing and reading all of those first date stories in analyzing what worked and didn't made you ready for your mr. Yes when he arrived on the scene or did that happen. I were you looking at that. In retrospect it happened in the middle Okay it happened in the middle so yes. All of this helped but really i think is a skill. Okay you gotta be out there doing it to get better at it and done a heck of a lot of it so there was that aspect but the interesting thing was when we met. I was not thinking at all about dating. I met him in an event where dating wasn't even on my mind. I had already gone out with a guy for lunch. That day on a date and i showed up to this networking event just to quickly be at this networking event and then to move on to watch san francisco giants playoff game. So you know there is something that a season date. Or here's a again and again from someone who says it'll happen to you when you least expect it and i would do the internal i roll. I'm doing it right now. And i'm married so like i punch somebody who said that to a single person. I know shut up. Yes but you hear it. You sure i would. Yeah and i never ever really believed it until it happened to me. So you said dating is a skill. What can you as a season to date her. What secret skill could you tell people listening right now like. What's the number one tactic too that you think pay. Maybe people don't know about like your ninja skill. I think ninja skill is to be able to talk to anybody When you're out dating for a long time You become a really good communicator. Which has a lot of benefits in all other aspects of your life sure so when you are communicator. You are good at picking up. What's going on with other people being able to connect with them around different things that you're sensing and you also end up often being really good listener and that's also a really important skill and the other one. If i'm going to add a bonus spin just kill coming your way. Don't judge someone when you meet them right away unless there is a very obvious reason to do so like suddenly immediately. Don't feel safe or something like that but otherwise none of us want to be judged out the gate. You don't wanna be judged it's not right for someone to jeju. Don't judge them. Give them time to present themselves because often we're not our best elves right away on a first date. Imagine the nerves tons of them. Yeah yes of course. People put a lot of pressure on themselves when a go out on a first date as though this next person they're going to meet is going to be there forever partner. That is just wrong. Wrong way to be thinking i would think as i entered cafe that restaurant bar that venue whatever it was i ultimately would make. I didn't think this early on. But ultimately i got to the place of i'm showing up to hopefully have a good time but at least to learn something to meet someone who has something interesting to share with me so that i can expand my view of the world and heck if we actually find chemistry in a connection that is such a bonus and that is such great advice beyond the dating realm like in everything you do show up and see what you can learn from people. I think that's wonderful and now we can. Now we can show up again and be together again. Which i know we are all really happy to be able to do. I was in restaurant. Last night was packed to the gills. I got nervous left again but still it was good to see people having fun all right. Jody klein the book is called. I state stories. You wanna tell everyone where they can find it. You can find information about the book you can find podcast and you can find the blog at first date. Stories dot com all right jodi. What one piece of advice do you have for people younger than you or do you wish you could go back and tell yourself i would go back and tell myself to stop comparing your life journey with other people's stop comparing yourself with the joneses. Don't be concerned with how their journey matches up with your journey. Let the joneses do the joneses and you do you and forget about the kardashians too. We know needs to keep up with the kardashians. I love that. I love that all right. Well i'm wishing you best of luck with i. Eight stories. Are you going to be out doing book tours or anything like that gonna be on the road at all. I will be and we're also going to be holding some virtual events. I asked the listeners to please check out for state stories dot com forward slash book. Where we're going to have all the information about the upcoming events around the launch of the new anthology. I'm so excited. You're going to be actually out in bookstores again. I'll leave links to everything in the show notes. joe declined. Thank you so much for being on the show today nancy. This has been an enormous treat. Thank you i really love. This idea that seasoned daters become more skillful in making connections listening and in reading people in a pretty much every aspect of midlife has some kind of downside. And that's all you ever hear about. I just wish we could work harder to recognize and celebrate the upside stories too. So i hope you feel uplifted by jodi pointing that out. And like i said i just had a feeling midlife. Mix tape listeners. Might have a couple stories of their own. So sure enough. Here's a sampling. Everybody was still sending the men when i had to record this episode. So don't include your story. Believe me. I read it and i loved it. There were of course the hilarious and hellacious first dates. I think they're hellacious if you were on them but they're hilarious. If you weren't like these reese wrote in and said i dated a real clone. Once he lived up the street and asked me on a date. Even though i had a boyfriend he was away at college so this guy had been declined college somewhere so guess where he took me the circus. We went backstage to see the elephants then sat in the front row. One of his clone buddies said one of his clone buddy sat in my lap at one. Point squished himself into my boobs. He had liquor on his breath and stubble under his makeup. My date that was a good time. I did not never saw again. Here comes the punchline. I married the boyfriend. He might have been off college but he wasn't wearing clown makeup. Okay i love this one from carey carey says she went shopping. Its structure for some khakis. Allot unpack that alone. She ended up scoring a date with the guy who worked there. And when he picked me up and his very fancy audi set very quietly the whole ride to wherever we were going and he finally asked me. If i was okay and i confess that i thought i might have just peed. My pants was actually that he had the seat. But were we're on. But i never experienced that brand new cars. Had i drove a ford. Probe for pete's sake we are still facebook friends happy ending. You didn't pay on his car. Okay speaking of cars are nebi has got one for us. I had a date with a fireman. I was twenty one. He was twenty five. I had no interest in dating but a friend was dating his friends so i agreed to one date. He picked me up said he needed to stop at home for just a minute. I stayed in the car. He went inside for five ten fifteen minutes. I on the door and opened it. This fool was laid out across his bed. You took longer than i thought to come in. You're very patient are nebi answered. I also can't drive. But i'm about to if you don't get up and take me home right now. Are nubia. says. I suppose he thought i was joking because a few minutes later he was running barefoot behind his swerving brand new car that i was quote unquote driving. I had to call a friend to pick me up. Because i refuse to get back in. His car never spoke to him again and in the never spoke to him again category. Here's lance with the story. So about a year. After i graduated college. I got set up with a friend's cousin. We hit it off and decided to make a real first date happen. She had an infant. But i didn't know that the child's father was in the picture. I show up to pick her up and dude confronts me in her driveway. One thing leads to another and the police show up. I have to sit on a curb for thirty minutes while the cops decide who goes to jail and why. I got to go home and i lost her number. Remember how jodi said not to judge. Here's your proof in these. I eight stories. That didn't seem promising at all. Or did they says. I finally got up the courage to call this cute woman and ask her out on a date and she told me she couldn't go because she did laundry on saturday nights. I asked if she could maybe do it another night and she said now. I took the hint and said okay. Well maybe another time right before. I hung up. She said wait. I think i can try to do it. On sunday. we did go on that date and i- inexplicably brought her brownies. The date went pretty well. We've been together twenty eight years. Who vicky louisa. Ellen says on our first date. He were blue plaid shirt on the second date. I thought is that the same shirt third date. Oh for fuck sake. This dude only has one shirt. I still have the shirt and we've been married twenty five years okay. Michelle had a story for us. She says he took me to pizza. Hut should've had me running in the other direction. But instead i married him. We celebrate our eighteenth anniversary in september. Wait where you at our wedding. Full disclosure the guy who took her to pizza. Hut is my cousin. Mark and there was an electric slide at that wedding eighteen years ago. My cousin mark on his dad's side of the family's scottish. So i will never forget the sight of the groom and all his attendants in their kilts doing the electric slide. It was very like dance. Meets brigadier in kind of a moment so caroline road win. This is a good caroline. Wrote it instead under the guise of borrowing his floppy disks so we already know what decade this took place in right under the guise borrowing his floppy disk. I asked the guy. I was crushing on my computer. Science class to my sorority formal fast forward a few weeks and we're at the formal his chivalry forces him to basically shotgun a bottle of champagne to avoid sprain. All over my velvet dress a little later in the evening while getting comfortable together on the couch. He proceeds to fall asleep while kissing. Me truly even had a little snore now. Fast forward thirty seven years later and that same scenario minuses champagne may have happened just last night with the same guy. I love that story. Here's liz she says. I went out on a blind date with this guy dinner and a movie. And we were both robin williams fans so we decided to see dead poet's society right up there with terms of endearment for saddest movie ending ever. Liz says i cried off all my mascara to the point where i was sobbing. The guy handed me a handkerchief and my first thought was wow. I never dated a guy who carries an actual handkerchief and after i blew all the snot intrusion kerchief and try to give it back he says. Now it's all right you keep it. We were engaged for months later and to this very day i can say he had me at handkerchief and then of course there were some. I states where things were just right right from the start. Beth wrote in and said my suffering year in college. I went out to the bar with childhood friend in her friends. None of us were twenty one or fake. Id so we took turns finding someone to buy his pictures all night when it was my turn. Some pointed to a guy who had bought for them on another night. So i went up and asked him he said yes if he and his friend could come sit with us. We talked for well and win. Walk like an addiction came on. We went out to dance. We were inseparable after that night. Fast forward thirty four years. We're celebrating our thirty third wedding anniversary next month. I totally lucked out meeting such good guy in a bar at one thousand nine years old and i count my blessings every day. David wrote in and said when i was a counselor the day camp unit had agreed to go on a picnic with me. One weekend wrote our bikes eight miles along the canal to a park. I had a backpack full of apples grapes and cheese. She brought a bottle of wine and it was pretty perfect. We've reenacted the right every ten years of our marriage. My father pointed out that every time after the first i was old enough to buy the wine too and finally. Here's one from chantale. Who says cute fraternity boy asked me out dinner at sniffers. Everyone's favorite and then off to a movie that are there murders that happen at sniffers. It makes me think of snuff films. Who names their restaurants numbers shantelle. Please contact me. let me now. it was cold. She says and he turned the seat. Warmers of his zhou on owner. We know where this is going to go. But this is different. This one is differently. The movie was beaches and he said he loved it as much as i did. Kiss me on the steps of the. Oh god you're asking me to remember what these greek letters are. Fada omega maybe exo. What's exo kiss me on the steps of the exo house and left me questioning that high school boyfriend who. I always assumed reunite with after college. Fast forward thirty two years. We still watch a movie every friday night together but the sappy dramas have been replaced by marvel heroes. I'm saving the best three first date stories for last because they're specifically about finding someone at midlife. Elaine says her. I was restaurant for lunch with margaritas. Putt putt golf. Two rounds deserted. The local gelato plays more drinks that evening. They hung out for eight hours and at the end of the evening. Just said okay see later. Basically she says it wasn't supposed to be a date but it was not even divorced yet. That was five years ago. And we've been married for two. Here's one from ruth. She says i asked my bumble match. Gonna sunrise hike on a sunday morning. It was in november. So wasn't super early. He agreed the sky lightened from dark. Grey to light gray as the sky was so overcast. There was no sign of the son. We went on a hike anyway. Continued after breakfast and we've been dating for eight months so i would like everyone to pause for a second. I'm going to be quiet a second. We're going to wish ruth. Well we're gonna wish her success in this relationship that she managed to create during the pandemic. Go all right ruth. I hope you felt that. And the last one from stephen back in two thousand fifteen. I asked the local librarian to coffee. She said yes then changed her mind via text but she sent to say hello whenever i was in the library. We texted a couple of weeks. Later when i was out looking at colleges. She texted after we get home to see how the tours went. I then asked her how she was doing. And she said not well as her rabbit of eleven years had died. I- effort to bring your comforting children's book lip laps wish to help her with her grief. That gesture piqued her interest. So then she asked me to coffee. We talked for four hours at rest bay gray on saturday afternoon. Went out to dinner six days later than twenty seventeen seven years after i'd been widowed. I'm married the second love of my life. Let me know what you thought about this episode or semi your own. Great first date story. I love reading them. You can find me on social media at midlife. Mix tape on facebook twitter and instagram. You can always email me at dj at midlife. Mix tape dot com. Thank you so much. Everyone for tuning in today. I hope you have a wonderful week dome down and you would have do for me. The donkeys on news of babylon argue. That had the means would have you want from him not be b. Be about it he won't.

jody klein nancy davis buluan jodie klein Jodi klein oakland coliseum Jody ada calhoun facebook jodi jody ross school of business disney uc davis disney princess university of michigan penny san francisco
Inside the Battle for the Hearts and Minds of Tomorrows Business Leaders

TIME's Top Stories

14:19 min | Last week

Inside the Battle for the Hearts and Minds of Tomorrows Business Leaders

"Brought to you. By american express business american express offers a line of cards dow. Take your business further because with needs like yours. You need a card built for business. Inside the battle. For the hearts and minds of tomorrow's business leaders by katie riley. Thima bond sal begins every new course with a cautionary statistic for her business school students. A two thousand eight study found that nba candidates enter business school with more community oriented values but graduate with more selfish ones. They come in caring about the world and they leave caring more about themselves why she says bon salle a professor at ivey business school london ontario thinks she knows the answer at the heart of every single. Course that we teach is this orientation toward prophet or leadership or themselves says bond sal one of a growing number of academics who want to change that nba programs. They say can no longer justify teaching future business leaders to maximize profits at the expense of the planet. The way bond silent others see it. The world would be a better place if more businesses played an active role in social and environmental challenges from climate change to global poverty and if the leadership ranks of major companies. Don't adjust the way they do business. They warn their fixation. On making money and rewarding shareholders will exacerbate inequality and climate disasters. We have a crisis on our hands and business. Schools need to act on. Sal says the world's major corporations stand at a crossroads many boomer and gen-x executives have grudgingly come to the realization. In recent years that they can no longer straddle the fence or remain silent on thorny social and political issues to attract and retain the best and brightest millennial engines e- employees companies are facing pressure to express their opinions and take action on critical matters including racial injustice climate change and income inequality a majority of college students sixty eight percent say companies should take public stances on social issues. Another sixteen percent said they wouldn't work for a company that didn't according to a recent axios generation lab poll another survey by washington state university's carson college of business found that seventy percent of gen z. Employees want to work for a company whose values align with their own and eighty-three percent want to work for a company that has a positive impact on the world. That demand is reflected in the young people seeking business graduate degrees at boston. University's questrom school of business. The number of students in the social impact. Mba program has nearly doubled in the last decade. Growing from seventy nine in twenty eleven to one hundred fifty five in twenty. Twenty one since leaders at the university of vermont ripped up that nineteen seventies era mba format and redesigned it around sustainability. Which is the term used to describe businesses that are environmentally and socially conscious. The program has grown from twenty students in two thousand fourteen to forty seven in twenty twenty. One they're considering expanding the program to seventy or eighty students. After receiving a record number of applications last year companies are also facing pressure from consumers who increasingly wanna buy eco-friendly ethical products from businesses that share their values nearly eighty percent of consumer say. It's important that brands are sustainable and environmentally responsible according to a twenty twenty study by ibm and the national retail federation which polled consumers in twenty eight countries. A majority fifty seven percent of those consumers. Say they're willing to change their shopping habits. In order to reduce the negative impact on the environment for the first time this semester presidio graduate school in san francisco offered. Mba students in eight week. Elective course on promoting anti-racism in the workforce adding two courses on leading inclusive organizations prioritizing social justice in supply chains and exploring renewable energy systems. Liz liba and adjunct professor teaching the course which covers the advantages and challenges of building a diverse workplace and how to identify discrimination and bias thinks it should be required for all students diversity sometimes has been an afterthought she says marketing is not an afterthought sales is not an afterthought the movement amounts to a fight for the hearts and minds of tomorrow's business leaders by changing how mba students are educated. Can we possibly justify teaching students to go out and profit their investors by depleting society and the rest of the planet. It's just not a viable ethical position. Says tom lion back. It director of the herb institute for global sustainable enterprise at the university of michigan's ross school of business but change has been slow. Universities are large traditional institutions that tend to stick with what they know and many major business. Schools haven't overhauled tried and true programs instead. Offering one off courses on sustainability or ethics. Maggie winslow the academic dean at presidio which aims to include sustainability and social justice. In every business course says when she offered to help the dean of another business. School start a sustainability curriculum. She was told. That's just a fad. Lyon has struggled to get concepts such as sustainability and corporate political responsibility fully integrated into the core curriculum and notes that there hasn't been a critical mass of students. Or donors demanding that change. It's like the mba. Core is the inner sanctum of the religion of business schools and every area feels like i have my sacred concepts. I must teach. And i cannot make room for these sort of nice but superfluous ideas lion says and many of the business schools that have been leading the charge on this front not among the country's top ranked mba programs suggesting that the most competitive business schools are hesitant to disrupt a time tested curriculum but as the world experiences the devastating effects of climate change and the country confronts centuries of racial injustice. Many professors argue. That change has never been more urgent. It's an all hands on deck kind of moment. Lion says were close to a point of turning the planet into a place that is much less inhabitable than it's been for the last millennium a fifty year old paradigm dartmouth founded the first graduate school of management in nineteen hundred with the tuck. School of business and harvard launched the world's first mba program in nineteen. Oh eight the nba has since grown to be the most popular postgraduate degree in the country. Making up twenty four percent of all masters degrees earned in the twenty eighteen nineteen school year. That's according to the national center for education statistics but the world has changed dramatically since the nba. I became a rite of passage for business leaders raising questions about whether courses in marketing micro economics and finance are a sufficient foundation for business leadership. Nba applications surged as the pandemic caused economic challenges and mass unemployment but business schools had been contending with several years of declining applications before that business schools are still operating out of a fifty year old paradigm. And i think that's the fundamental problem lion says all the businessman had to do was just maximize profits play within the rules and everything was fine and the problem is our rules. Need to be changed. The system isn't really working anymore. Climate change is expected to cost the global economy as much as twenty three trillion dollars by twenty fifty according to a twenty twenty one report by the insurance company. Swiss ry and a reckoning over racial injustice has intensified calls for corporations to do more to promote equity and diversity. Eliza governor davis a second year student at questrom says if you had told her in college that she'd one day go to business school. She would have laughed. My impression was if you go to business school. You're only focused on the economics and do the economics pencil out. And there's no room for thinking through any other considerations says gotten her davis thirty one but she enrolled in questions social impact mba program which includes courses on impact investing discrimination in the workplace and environmentally sustainable supply chains because she wanted to understand business basics in order to pursue her interests in environmental justice and clean energy. The demand is coming from corporations to in june the accounting firm pricewaterhousecoopers announced it would invest twelve billion dollars over five years to create one hundred thousand new jobs many with an environmental social and governance or es g focus student. Demand is increasing. You can see employers are seeking graduates with these skills and knowledge. There is demand from society to business schools to positively contribute to tackling some of these grand. Societal challenges says caroline flamor the co faculty director of questrom social impact program. She teaches a course called social impact business society and the natural environment which she thinks should be required for any nba student. In my view the social impact mba program should be the mba program. She says at michigan lyon teaches a course on the economics of sustainability to undergraduates and of course on energy markets and energy politics to graduate students. He's working on building a task force on corporate political responsibility aiming to confront the way companies too often focus on their own. Short-term profits at the expense of the larger society. He'd like to see the concepts of ethics sustainability and political responsibility fully integrated throughout all mba courses. Not just tacked on as a single course. That's how sanjay sharma who's the dean of the university of vermont's grossman school of business. Redesigned that schools. Mba program with sustainability embedded in every subject students learn about impact investing carbon pricing and analyzing social and environmental risks. They explore all case studies through the lens of environmental and social justice impacts sustainability has been part of the core curriculum at ivy and ontario. Since two thousand three when bond sal. I began integrating business. Sustainability into strategy finance and marketing courses teaching students to take a long-term view and to consider social and environmental impacts in business decisions. She confronted the perception. That environmental issues didn't belong in business education. Now she hears from students who say they desperately need more of these classes she thinks. Mba programs need to do a better job of preparing students to solve today's global challenges. You have to have corporations that build products that solve nachos their own profits but products that actually make the world better. She says that requires a different type of thinking. Business moves faster than academia. Sherman knows that mba programs like his built entirely around. Sustainability are still niche top ranked business schools with powerful brands. Don't seem eager to up. End successful programs that are still attracting thousands of applicants willing to spend as much as two hundred thousand dollars for their degrees and producing highly employable graduates. Business moves faster than academia. Sharma says but he thinks all business schools will be forced to adapt eventually if organizations demanded and if society demands it. Then it'll start happening faster. He says he and his peers are confronting a lingering. Stigma that courses on sustainability or social. Justice are nice but not essential. I wish i could say. The vast majority of ross students were beating down the doors for ethics and sustainability. And you know they're not lion says the real drivers are student demand and donors so if students start saying we have to have this material. Schools will change for university leaders. There's nothing simple about. Revamping decades old curricula or persuading tenured faculty to change their courses but the global realities of climate instability and resource. Shortages could force their hand. If you only plan to be in business for five years maybe you don't wanna think about it but if you want to be in business for fifty years then we all have to think about this. Says winslow the presidio dean. We can't do business as usual. We have to do new business. Meet shannon simmons owner of rat ads ad agency shannon's biggest client has across the country and they requested and in-person meeting tomorrow so she used her american express business cards app feature which her tracker business expenses from the last minute flight to the late night. Burrito upon arrival big meeting tuesday expenses recorded wednesday crushing it every day built for business by american express. Don't do business without it. While the story is fictional the value of amex business cards is real terms of live. Learn more at american express dot com slash business cards.

nba american express business amer katie riley bon salle ivey business school carson college of business questrom school of business Mba Liz liba tom lion herb institute for global sust ross school of business but ch Maggie winslow university of vermont
Prof Amiyatosh Purnanandam, Professor finance at the Ross School of Business at the University of Michigan

Scientific Sense

50:09 min | 1 year ago

Prof Amiyatosh Purnanandam, Professor finance at the Ross School of Business at the University of Michigan

"Welcome to the site of accents podcast. Where we explore emerging ideas from signs, policy, economics and technology. My name is Gill eappen. We talk with woods, leading academics and experts about the recent research or generally of topical interest. Scientific senses at unstructured conversation with no agenda or preparation. Be Color a wide variety of domains. Red New discoveries are made. and New. Technologies are developed on a daily basis. The, most interested in how new ideas affect society. And help educate the world how to pursue rewarding and enjoyable life rooted in signs logic at inflammation. V seek knowledge without boundaries or constraints and provide unaided content of conversations, bit researchers and leaders. Who Low what they do. A companion blog to this podcast can be found at scientific sense. Dot Com. And displayed guest is available on over a dozen platforms and directly at scientific sense dot net. If. You have suggestions for topics, guests at other ideas. Please send up to info at scientific sense dot com. And I can be reached at Gil at eappen Dot Info. If you haven't heard about anchor, it's the easiest way to make a podcast. Let me explain it's free. Their creation tools that allow you to record and edit your podcast. Right from your phone or computer. Incredible will distribute your podcast for you, so it can be heard on spotify apple podcasts and many more. You can make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership. It's everything you need to make a podcast in one place. Download the free inker APP or go to Anchor Dot FM to get started. My guest today is prefaced them who is a professor of finance at the law? School of business at the University of Michigan and the chair of the finance area he switched, focuses on corporate finance banking and financial crisis. He has closely studied topics such as the effects banking crises on the real economy, the role played by securitization during the subprime mortgage crisis, and the economics of government bailout of the financial sector that come talks. Thanks a lot for having me here and unexcited to talk to you about these issues. Yeah, so I want to go back. To one of your older peepers the euro in two thousand eight. During the until last that financial shock. AD entitled Origin Geneka Disrepute. And subprime mortgage crisis. invites you say the odor. JANETTA DISTRIBUTE OT. D. Model of lending loan sensitivities. Third parties was tap by method of mortgage lending before the onset of the subprime mortgage crisis. And you show that banks with heightened involvement in this process is. Marketing doing the pre. PD originated excessively. Commodities could you explain you know? The OCD mortar, little bit and wide. The banks find that flying the track deal ytl sell send higher list mortgages, but perhaps quality origination, and perhaps you know at the end of the day the portfolio. How the portfolio actually performed. After and Let. Let Me Start Thought what? What is not an ot, D. model of lending and then talked about what he is yet wrote. The these of the mortgage lending is what we call you. The to hold model of lending that a bank would give a loan to a homeowner and that loan will sit on banks balance sheet to the time. It's getting paid or financed. And so that's being model lending that we all. We are traditionally familiar with it. And the. The key difference between this traditional lending model and the OT D. Mato or is the nature distribute as naming plays is the bank that makes the loan the. Bank does not hold onto that look. So the loan LEXI's. By a local bank here in Ann, Arbor, where I'm talking from, but after meeting the loan that may gets sold to investors on Wall Street through some complex packaging and secret edition transaction yet. Line is that risk. Is Not sitting on the balance sheet of the bank that made the law. And that's your Ot. D. Model of lending the same thing secret sacred ideation, so we talking about the same thing here. That when you say the puskas notes sitting in the bank's balance sheet when they distribute that loan, a third party and we is that that third party appears sort of. Party or so so bad. Does that was? I, guess. That's a good question, so let's let's look at a concrete example to give you a flavor of what happens. So typically what will happen is the knitting bank has given one hundred dollars off loan to a homeowner yet and then the lending contract. Is the mortgage contract now? That will be sold to. What Al Call a sponsor and think of them as a large Wall Street back yet, though on, so this'll be bank of America women, sacks, and sometimes at least to eight into nine, they would also independent mortgage companies such as the month mortgage, and so on. The now what this bank is doing steaks markets contract. And says it to this sponsor. And now the homeowner effectively oils the payments to this sponsor yet. What is sponsored will do that. Sponsor will buy mortgage like this from a hundreds and thousands off A. Bottomless yes. So now it will be that now sponsors essentially collecting all the mortgages in a pool. Right now thinking about this that is sponsored will end up getting sick creating a pool where it's worth a hundred million dollars independence Paloma. And then the next step. Is that this against hundred million dollar where these homeowners going to be making payments? The sponsor will create security. Yep and there'd be defend classes of defense securities. So they'd be a senior clause. There'll be a a mezzanine glass. There'd be a junior class. And both securities now sold in the financial markets. So I made for my own understanding. So in this you're describing the the sponsor here is. There is a third party. Sponsored far the third party. But worth the D. Securities have been shored yet but this. is now sitting with a DIV investors. This industrial, so the sponsor buys the buys the mortgages from being originators a makeup pull those those those mortgages, and then essentially take portfolio and create securities out of those football portfolios investors so now the bag is out of the picture. Yes, the investors hold the risk very and the sponsor become sort of a channel. On that West. District you just like you should chain. Yet. Have the mess after and by the time it gets to the detail. There are two three intermediaries in between YEP, if exact same process. So somebody's creating disease and then there are some intermediaries that like sponsors than but effectively. What will happen? What happens at the end up to date? that. The homeowner gets the money from these security investors. Right. So now let's go back to your question though. Is sitting now. The risk is sitting with these these bond investors. And not think about it. Unlikely our traditional model, these investors they don't even know who the ultimate borrower is right right in report chain the as compared with the traditional model where a bank gave loan to meet by House than the bank is doing the entire screening. You Diligence on me. Microbes called my job and how likely end to pay back or not pay that? And back knows that the consequences of a bad decision. Day maybe making the time of lending. Really be fully borne by that so in this process. Ben The bank digits the Lorne What how are they getting paid? How much what they almost getting a fee for the legitimation absolutely so? Let's just take discussion will at. The. Broader level. That! What is it in for the bank in this model? As you clearly. Pointed out that the bank is not willing to earning interest yet. Interests will be passed on to the bond investors. But the banks end up getting a piece of fee. Income will orchestrating these laws right? So now I think what is good about this modest were. Bad about this? Good about this model is that if you have an antidote band? Has Lifted Capacity Limited capital limited liquidity to meet the lending needs of all bottlers in Ann Arbor. And in this model, you are opening up the source of funds to global investors right. Effectively a bottle were in out, but ends up getting money from an investor's say from in in London Hong Kong by. The this gets distributed yet. So. There's a bitter risk sharing that happens because of this right, and maybe a better is sharing the cost of funds as as the amount of funds that you can get dibbled. Come down. But. So this is a good model in that sense. That's the plus side. and. That's why what you'll see. The mortgage rate will come down because because investors said diversifying and they're getting nicer distribution. The flip side is what might be is about. Is that what happens? Is the disconnecting this model been who? Creates this or is this are making bank? And who bears this? The bond investor, right? And? The date is a disconnect. Ben Now look at the incentives of the knitting back then essentially making money off the ordination fees. It's a it's a volume based business. and. You hit the Nail Ted. Up Volume based business. Yeah, and once you know that more and more. Of Lending do. I get more fee-based income, which in itself is very attractive in the banking business. Right, and why do I say that? Because fetus income does not convene your capital? You can be a video small bank, but all you doing as. Distant or the knitting distributing so for one dollar capital. You can do many more times of what deal ending the air to the traditional lending. Right right and so the club we get into in two thousand, eight, one of the troubles, is that neither the sponsors, nor the investors of the security I'm just making a statement. You can cover me really. Seems that really had a good understanding of the risk that they're taking especially Taylor's that they're taking. And the and the pool had I would imagine a Heidi Devos settles. Gauges with you know video bitty different types of great. and so, what was the problem that land into that when they were a discontinuity? There was really high level so for default, and that whole scheme essentially failed. I say eighty percent correct, and there's one thing that I like to embody. Find Your Day. So. So, indeed, there was a little bit off the misunderstanding or lack off. A full understanding off this that these investors were taken yet. And that could come from simply the fact that hey. People have talked about extrapolation bias in the sense that some investors. If they believe that house prices never go down. The growing up because these loans that fundamentally back by the houses. So so so so in two thousand, three, four five six we augment that house prices across the country across the globe, in fact, they going up and up and up, and if you extrapolate that a little bit too far in the future. Yeah I'm investing in mortgage backed Cardi and the essentially backed by these houses in House Avenue are going to fall by thirty percent opening forty percent. Then, you will make a mistake estimating the truce yet, but that was one, but but at the same time they will, they were bigger issue, and that relates to the incentives and the information of these parties. The knitting band had all incentive as we just talked about do increase volume. And give it also most informed about the troop quality of the bottle. Right. And as these loans got passed into the secret edition chain. Than father you wear from the borrower. Less informed you about this discovered that bottle. Right, because now effectively. You just don't know who this guy was, so you had a lot of knows like no doc. Loans are low documentation loans, yeah. So there, there were this incentive issue that did the ours knitting band done a blind eye through desks that they would not have taken. Had they been required to hold those loans on their balance sheet right? So that's in the in that sense, so there was, and they complement each other, but they're slightly different one. Is that look? Everybody missed the boat and they made a mistake in calculating the truest. But the second one is a little bit more. Dangerous for US economic system where some kind of knew that look, this guy has. V had no Ninja loans. No income acid no job. Traditionally. These loans were not being made, but now this incentive problem that look amid this loan and it'll be someone else's headache. Don't spend. So. They they they work with each other and I I. Did say that Al Psyche make one statement. One aspect of the state may yet. and which is imploded that look what you said is that? All divers kind of laws. And this is exactly how it should be for deriving the maximum benefit of diversification. One of the pooling look I will take a lot of loans, and they're not and there's a benefit odors station. They're not fully correlated with each other, and so on so some loans will do well. Some loans will not do that right, but effectively I'll have some benefit willing as yeah, I think I used the wrong to mend by divers loans. Is that some quality perspective? They will be different, so then you. Though If, you're assumption going in. Yes, said that generally generally the same that you probably making a mistake right after an Indie Add to the at an Indian. Film Saint the only thing that. Is that. The assumptions had made about The correlation is structure of these loans. Under, the same adoptions have made about how much fishing you're getting from these loans, and after the crisis, we realize that the the historically. There was this adoption that the northeast market housing market will be different than markets in Texas Than Marketing Illinois and Michigan at saw yet, but it on that time the died global mortgage market early in our country in the US that you had. A dog that was felt across all fifty states yeah. So then you had a scenario where you had a bad shock that hit every one. And it was not as easy local Our local crisis system attic. Army was more systematic and the you lost that benefit that you talk. You would have by willing alone from Michigan with a loan from from New, York and trump picks. Yes that issue led to the right of hate. Your problems after that, but before we get didn't do it. I looked to get into another paper. Entitled Judging. Banks risk by the profits Devonport. Now. The banks would not the issue in this area that just went through the sponsor. who was was the was the issue but generally you're looking at here. you say in competitive capital markets portfolios of whiskey debt claims have high systematically exposure than bad times, if they offer high yield in good times in anticipation of a bad time, right, so be applied to get the measure a bank risk so rather than trying to directly measure. On the balance sheet you're looking at the yield, said the deriving. From that portfolio and use that as a proxy dude did look at what the systematic sex exposure this. Accidentally at the deal like to tickets tobacco. Use of the paper. and. Talk about the philosophy behind banking regulation. the latest on the war, but typically hat and the philosophy goes back to at least Basset one thousand nine hundred eighty eighties, but even before that the philosophy of holiday Galician is a model based philosophy. That is you want to figure out how it is kees this bank. And somebody comes with the model. And the Model USA. Hey, give this bank. has this kind of asset this kind of exposure so I'll somehow translate what the band does, right. This could number. So only regulations like risk, weighted capital or value at risk and bunch of other stuff credit risk regulation. Everywhere essentially a model basic, Mitch, and none of them have any any any market feedback. I would imagine right and. Some of them on with broadly, you're right, but some of them do have market-based. Initially, it all started with the. hostal under the Olympic. Market was his book based on and Tantrum. Touch upon that. But, but the biggest issue hit is that these are always this cat and mouse game between the Lakers and the bats, so you come up with the mob, and the the the the related institutions to get out. How to game the market yeah right. And then the response has been the that will create a more complex mom. Because look the PITAS modest missed out with for example sometime around nineteen ninety, there was discussion. That well all the divisions we have ambassador one. They're all bowed lending risk, and all the missing the marketers in missing just gratuitous, got the other marcus so they they changed and the exhibition, and said look. We should compute the trading risk of bank using evaluators. And so on. So the so so handling, this is that every time you come with the model, the model phase because somebody games it. And the next version of the model is more complex that is solving the previous problem. Yeah. For us is a hard, want hard. You saw the next problem. And what you see and where this this paper, which which I'm very excited about. Is it about simplicity? And what we're saying here, is that look? A more complex model, but half may not be the solution because it gives more degrees of freedom. manically the D'Amato, but. Because more inputs needed, more exemptions needed more information needed to set up a more complex mobbing so rather than going about going going after the mapping off. What do do a list number less attack the quote of the problem. Is that of the incentives who make too much money in good times. That is no matter where you look at the banking crisis. Whether you look at the SNL crisis here in the US. You look at the subprime mortgage crisis. You look at you. Look in financial crisis. You look at Great Depression. The triggered off what led to the crisis is often different, often new. Is One thing that is constant. Which is somebody would benefiting a lot by hiding risk. Right somebody was making a lot of money. We lot of money in good times a lot of money. Exactly, so this essentially says that to forget about all this complex modern. Just look at who is making money. In good times. And this is the WHO did in the tibial finance. That is you make a lot of money. a big chunk of that comes from ticket. This traders netted riskier bonds will give you a lot of return a lot of promise coupon payments go times. Show in good time. If you buy a beat it at bond compared to actually. Make money. But then that the compensation for this that the beat to bond with more likely to be fall back times than attributed. Flight that idiot banks, and of course it required some ward some adoption with it, says the biggest that bags that are making money. On doing that. In a large part by taking. A lot of And and especially, if those office get paid out as CEO Compensation and dividends. Than what you're seeing is in good time to take a lot of risk. You make a lot of money that money gets paid out, so it does not estate within the bank. And in the bat time if there is the possibility of a government bailout. which happens again in a game? Then there's always this incentive of taking a lot of risk to profit at the expense of taxpayers right so so in this paper, so you're saying that lot of than having betty complex models. Dementia risk. Let's look at wonderful. portfolios are yielding in inaugural times, and that's a good proxy for the risk of the portfolio. And then the issue obviously is you know. What are the incentives for the Bank to take? High risk and You know your neck next people is is getting into that, so you know if the managers of the of the Bank cavs some sort of a backstop for the bad times they can keep pumping risk into the portfolio, doing good times and then. Discontinued to happens, they can throw their arms up in the go to go to Washington not to get the backstop right so. That, was the beginning of that that be allowed in two thousand eight. Beginning to allow again in the in the in the coming discontinued. Also you your third people here again looking back into two thousand eight season we can learn something from it. and you send titled Did. Bank's pay a sale return to taxpayers on the card. Programs troubled as relief program. I can't remember what the what the total number was, but he was a big Cobra programme of dollars. Billions of bits of billions of dollars given us a bailout for bangs. On the premise that if they fail the whole economy, goes to goes to hell and and so and so you're looking at here so that talk program had some sort of return coming back to back to shareholders, so there was an original contract in the bottom, and and then when things look bad, the renegotiated that so you're looking at what exactly did the taxpayers get paid back from the back? Right on on the backstop that do provided that's. And lift just just refresh memories year a little bit. This, we talking about September October of two thousand and eight to Lehman Brothers had just fade. Indeed indeed that that was a time when there was some support that was needed. otherwise the finish in markets with collapsing and with that the economy would have collapsed, and the market was under tremendous stress. So the issue, and this is something that the confront all the time that is when the bench sector are the genetic Groggy speaking gets into a stress. This disconcerted that look it will have. It has stating consequences for the rest of the economy if we not build them up. And? They submitted to that, but the fundamental question that we have to sort out as collectively in the Connie Society. Is Not so much of disagreement about helping them out in bad times. As what we get paid back in good times. That is there's no conflict and sometimes the cushion gets phrased at a false choice. Either you bail out on you get taxpayer. GET BASE GETS hammered. No, you can book. is by proper security design. That is what happened with an eight tonight. Let's say that we had to bump two hundred billion dollars as preferred equity, these banks. What what is a program that we are looking at in in my paper? Let's say that was needed. You wanted to give them two hundred dollars so that banks fail and the. Economy stays on trial. But. What happens subsequently when the economy covered? ACT Did not own. Enough profits that share of that recovery was not fairly shared with taxpayers. And up mechanisms to do that. You Attach Warren's. Out Money so that in the good times the bands chip price goes up. The profits are shared a little bit more fairly been bold. The shareholders manager of the bank and the taxpayers on. You might see Meka views. Amortize is that. You know those contracts can be designed properly but given everything that we have seen in the financial sector I have no trust. That they will figure something else out than than things to work out, so if you want to take the incentive of you know taking risks. picked out repricing the risk without really really literally looking at it on the that even do something you know with the Taxpayer Money In the future I think that behavior that is a behavioral issue there absolutely. That I. Don't know it's easy to collect contracting absolutely the, but what you just say, the word that used trust that. Is a fundamental problem than. That bothers me about this this this whole structure that is. Even lose trust. In. Economic System yet. The host of that is in its. Eight because and you have seen that in the last ten fifteen years for sure up mortgage crisis in our country and across the door with people has become cynical dimension sector. People become cynical about behold roloff. Bailout in in terms of benefits and insular. And if that happens that, it has a long consequences for faith in our capitalistic society and many other issues so. But but let me just. Say this. Bad I agree with you and I share your cynicism. Bad Look. You cannot saw these problems through contracts. But, I will have a little bit of. A little bit more to that can. Be cannot saw these problems. By talking about Duty Back Times. Yes, yes, why we have to talk about this. Good Time Yep late. This paper that that that you talk to you about judging backers by the prophets they pulled. We had ridden that debate about two years ago. And that Bush back be we are making profits. And how could you just because we are good? We got back. We have. Again and again and again and collectively what we need to do, and I understand that this lady behavior. You're in the sense that in good times horns are documented boarding on this and model, based regulation and all that. And and but the fundamental thinking, and and that that we have to have is that when time said good. Bet, Omar some simple solutions. To this problem. making sure that banks keeping their profits inside the back rather than being it out completely. Because that's the Buffalo. That's the cushion that we needed back times events enough capital on their own balance sheet did not becoming to experts. justic on route on this paper so You know the the talk through in two thousand eight you ought, you're showing that. Does taxpayers got much much lower? Turn then a private investor, right absolutely and keep wind the motivation. Is that look often hear bankers, and a lot of people say that look dot money we back every penny of it. And that is a correct that they did pay back the money, but that misses the point to offer a fundamental thing in finance that district on trade. Affair that turned that I, gave you ten dollars, and you determine eleven to me. That would have starting point. But what is fundamental in finance that if I gave you ten dollars in Janey bad state of the world is in two thousand eight. And you're owning eleven when everything's great in two thousand thirteen of forty. Ten dollar. As you want compensate me for the state of the world, and you did not compensate me for this that it took by giving you ten dollars baddest data the work. Yet make. Matt is was a by doing that. Be conditioned the financial sector to expect that in the future as well absolutely, and that's the moral hazard, all belief about future. bailouts and that creates on sort of a, but was incentives, but to control the paper. Yeah, that's the point so what we seen that as a benchmark with advance really or not is by looking at what with the deterrent for that kind of investments in private markets, right and the private markets are way more than the return that we ended up getting a tax bid from these bands, so the conclusion is that yes, banks. Did return our money back, but did not share in the upside gains that they got which was shared with other market participants right and to without luck. We have history repeating again Guest Wendy and you have a couple of articles allowances for example one of them You say GP. Mortgage Cheese must have spend all its payouts, and essentially this is a situation where the bank is continuing with its dividend payout. even though you know dollar did knows that it's holding onto Atlantic folio that it's not going to perform. and it seems like it is. It hasn't learned a lot although maybe to learn more than axe taxpayers actually. Actually play to teach Good from two thousand eight, and just anticipating. What's going to happen? You need. The point is that they've been sits? Day, out of course anew in a well-functioning Kappa markets, you want investors to get to turn back. But what is that at a time like this when you and I know? than via waiting for Nami off defaults. To hit us in fact, look, advance quarterly support. They offer only talking about taking up. A big. Loss provisioning in the. Income statements and so on so bad get ready. So, the point is that when you know that you're going to be under stress. And you know that there's going to be a lot of uncertainty on this stress that right now. Nobody knows how bad is. This. Read is going to be back. Slow when you when you're unsure about how bad is going to be this bad? You keep more. Dry Powder Bq. At You keep more capital inside the bed. That in expectation, the possibility that the taxpayers have been demeaned goes down and it's enactments that I'm saying that if you look at them, bickel evidence from across the. The policy will be to stop the dividends. And that's what you teach in business schools I think right so that internally generated cash is probably the the least cost data. WOULD BE I didn't want to go into the technical details of that, but I might add since you left me there. Is that let Indian. It's what we call this information information insensitive away of raising capital that is a win of accompanied with raisins, dollar capitals from the outset market. A little bit of a discount that outsiders will give because they're not sure what information that the company has. Both needing dollar of your cash inside the company. Yet new information discount so indeed that is a video efficient form of capital that is keeping said before. Yes, so so what you're saying is that you know no change in the capital structure, no change in the dividend policy. They have temporarily sort of to save. As has stopped Avi Purchase Program but essentially this looks like just. The NAMI to happen and then look for that backstop. and so if that's the case, you know. financial institutions maybe the law from two thousand eight so that they can repeat the same. With US taxpayers and this is not just financial institutions. You have another under article around an operating company this. Boeing. And it's sort of the same problem, right? After. Now and yeah, so it's not just financial institutions that have conditioned students also blocked about because he. And basically they. more of these bailouts but at any in company like Boeing you have what about the same thing that that big a distress and we collectively help them out which is fine. But, but which is fine at some as long had we as taxpayers get compensated? these urgent, my not king on the issues. That's the conclusion that I have kind of walked with at At this tax that that look, we have to help A. because. The alternative is even worse, so they met in the argument that you don't want to let a company like Boeing I see that that. But the point, is that short if I help you? What do I get tax faded, and that's where we have a proud. and. I don't know. So you know sort of a principal agent problem here to the principal's taxpayers distribute, and they don't really have. recap the politic, she the agents they put into this process to negotiate on there because. you know they may have incentives that are not really aligned with the taxpayers and you know. Yeah. Let me expand on that a little bit. This is a very important point that you as that. One of the principals have distributed. Like experts like Small, and they're all over the place we hire our EH negotiated. Exactly Yeah negotiator will work on our behalf only if your she is either good agent. And they said look. I just do the right thing for my dad's bears. And all they have incentives to do that. And the incentives to do that, I think will come either from. Financial Incentives or Reputational, incentives right. And often in this debate what happens that we have our a? Elections we have our. Presentative change and some of them might have shocked incentives Yep, and if you have shipped incentives than the deputy channel might not work that. That strongly as one would want it to. Sir Get. Pretty complicated Yeah I don't know. Why do you think about this? Oh, given that we are going to this crises more frequently than otherwise There has to be a position that you know just like you elect. Elect the Congress Maybe there are few people that you are electing. do to actually handle a crisis situation. Rare you can. You can ensure that you know. The incentives are aligned with the taxpayers. Other, difficult idea and in fact, that is a little bit of. Progress on that front when you talk about the after the financial crisis set central beacons of dodd-frank. Got To that point, they're old. The Summit Dental on making dad that is living bill for every band bad, what and so some some structure behind? How you try to do. Either structure, these firms renegotiate the contracts. This is a little bit of progress by much much much. More work needs to be done there. Yeah, that goes to use suggestion which is. What you're saying is that let's have structure in good times. Let's help. The rules set in good times. not in anticipation of the good times going going perpetually, but now dissipation of a bad time coming. At don't change those rules than bad taste. Bad Times happen right absolutely, absolutely, for example in in in a very tangible terms in good times. Make sure they're building up a lot of capital. There have some attempts in the last. Twelve years on you must must have heard about a countercyclical capital buffer and things like that advocate build up your capital. Good Times they dish could be some some notion of understanding, excessive risk taking in good times. that. If somebody's making a lot of prophets, let's have a little bit more careful. Look at those guys because most of the big. And by new means I'm suggesting that profit making his bat. Yep, absolutely not, but profit making has a often sources. One is what we call you gender eight. On Fall, or in the sense that it's your kid, it's the Yup our own profit, and then is a Lisi profit, which is simply this taking profit. The win. Good Times you see profitability high for some trading desk got some company. Is, known, as investigate, that was the source of back profit. Right, yeah, so so I. I don't know this May out the account for their so there's no concept of sort of lescot districts us with or also reporting in the banking arena. The it is the whole idea behind his waited capital requirements, and so on goes towards that. Yes. That is. The the idea. But it's but associate drastic cushion. Yes, Betty, some. But, but it needs to be a right front and center into the banking regulation, which which is not the case right now any tests to be plan spattered and systematic. You can kind of fool around with it right, I mean. Y- also depends on your computer. Risk of your portfolio's. There has to be set of rules that are consistent systematic. Otherwise, it won't work, thank. Equitably end and took the disc is to begin with in the best of times, or until you have to live with a liberal arts, angry liberals, a lack of clarity, but we can make the system better, but attack incentives so that it goes back to that issue. the crisis every time what? Advice is triggered is all of the different a different one? But the motives almost ought to say. In conclusion. Let me ask you to speculate What's your best? Best guest as to what's going to happen next eighteen Martin's. Are we going to see something similar to two thousand eight? Or something different. The! Look in terms of. The banking sector right now, banks. I didn't much better shape. So so one way to see that that look a lot of. Things that we learn from to crisis NBA implemented. We went a little bit up on capital requirements in effective gap requirements. And an end the banking sector was being great for the last the seven eight years before the at so that's helping us yet. Why that's one factor that gives me comfort beat of that at least when it comes to the Okay okay. But, but you are. You're suggestion would be. At the video lease, the financial sector. CAST TO CAST to look at the capital structure in such a way that they will, they will get bad outcomes. That's what has been happening. Right absolutely and so. In fact, giving every Benny, and that's why I don't like the idea that these days events stooping dividends back to me is absolutely not a good idea. You saw a save every penny. are in inside the band. Because unique them pretty soon. So bottle of what you asked me. How do you see speculate? And I am an attack that word, because it's just make relation by be I. Can Afford to be bad dad. That Cam yet look, it will partly depend on of course, the abroad macroeconomic actor which the vaccine. It's a medical problem. We have no idea at least somebody like me does not bring the idea that side of the world here and. Give depend on that, but the sticking to the financial sector yet. Be, the way to finish respond to this prolonged crisis quicker governor will be a function of homage capital Rehab inside the sector that one. And, and at the same time. How much is the? The the liquidity and and the funding constraints in the. Secondary Market, but let me expand on that Libya yet. by Amine that we need all our banks to have enough capital, and things should be great there, but we also want the other intermediaries like the and the dealer and the the the the Money Market Fund. And the that important indimedia is that that? In fact do all those people contracts where have the flow of money happening across the financial sector and then from there to the real economy? And beat even talk your dad is. It's more disruption in that market can amplify and have logged impact on the finishes it like. That is a big learning from two thousand twelve right, it's all interconnected yet, and so even if you keep ninety five percent of the system, pity well capitalized. If you have a problem that a five percent, it doesn't really matter because it's going to fool thing absolutely absolutely so so governor with depend on A. Will that be having our traditional banks and the banking sector and be? How will lubricate, and we have how much liquidity key in the secondary market so that they stretch on money market, mutual finance, most stress on primary dealers. Like like. Yeah. Let's see It'll be a hold on your season been interesting, right? That's my. That's my speculation. You wrong with that and that will. Be The case yes. so this has been great mutation. for spending time with me and good luck with all your. Research, Michigan! Thanks for having me again and I enjoyed our conversation would like with this. Thank you, bye bye!

Bank US Michigan professor of finance spotify Gill eappen woods Gil D. Mato University of Michigan School of business Lakers NBA Ann Arbor
Robinhood is going public. Can its unusual plans for investors hold up?

Marketplace Morning Report with David Brancaccio

08:25 min | 2 months ago

Robinhood is going public. Can its unusual plans for investors hold up?

"This marketplace podcast is supported by equifax the world's digital infrastructure company looking for the choice and control of hardware with the low overhead and developer experience of the cloud deploy equifax metal in minutes across eighteen global locations from silicon valley to sydney. Just add metal at metal dot equinox dot com this marketplace podcast is supported by cyber reason cybersecurity defenders. Don't fear ransomware. They end it with cyber defenders detect and stop ransomware that even others miss a promise backed by their one million dollar breach warranty at cyber reason. They don't fear ransomware they end it. Learn more at cyber reason dot com. It's a big moment to launch new stocks into the ocean of capital markets. I'm david brancaccio new york. I after weeks of negotiation. The senate has voted to begin. Debate on a bipartisan infrastructure. Bill that would provide hundreds of billions of dollars to fix loads of things. Roads internet waterlines. Marketplace's novus ofo has followed the to-ing and fro-ing on this nova last month. The white house revealed of framework for this any surprises. Here well there are definitely some changes. The top line amount in new spending on infrastructure is a little less than what they didn't actually agree to five hundred fifty billion dollars. That's down from five hundred. Eighty billion senators whittled down funding in some categories like public transit but overall the investments are actually pretty close to what they'd agree to a month ago. I talked about the bill. That's emerged with a d. tomar. He focuses on infrastructure policy at the brookings institution. This is a generational investment. We're now on track to invest in the same range as we did during the height of the new deal so for many of us who are not alive during that period. This really is going to be over the next five. Plus years the biggest investment in our physical systems. We've ever seen in changes in how we pay for this right. that's right. They got rid of the idea of boosting the irs to go after tax dodgers that was jettisoned over republican objections now. Lawmakers are instead tapping into a lot more unused kobe relief money than they had. Originally indicated and de tomar brought up an important point. David that if and when a bill actually gets passed that would still just be the beginning of this process. The federal government does not own the majority of our infrastructure assets it really falls to states and local governments as well as private sector partners to actually design execute in terms of workforce development and capital flows and actually construct these projects so down the line local and state governments are going to have a lot of decisions to make david about how and where to spend this infrastructure. Money novo sappho. There's news that economic growth in the april-june quarter was brisk but still a lot weaker than expected. Growth is running at a six and a half percent annual rate at a time the forecasters were figuring something closer to eight and a half percent that fits into federal reserve chair. Jerome powell says has been yesterday that the economy is healing but not to the point that his team can start taking away special pandemic stimulus government. Statisticians can now say that for all of twenty twenty. The lockdown year the us economy contracted by three and a half percent. Hey it's jed kim. Host of million bazillion million zillion is a podcast for kids in the families. That helps dollars make more sense in each episode. We tackle the tricky questions that your kids have about money. Like how was it. Made is our factory somewhere that makes it. Or what determines the price of visa and we're back with all new episodes. That's more answers to the questions. Your kids wanna know thoughtful ones. The silly ones and the really hard. To answer one's million. Zillion listen wherever you get your podcast. Thirty companies are set with initial public offerings of stock this week alone including language-learning abdul lingo and dole as in pineapples and odd. One is robin hood. Which is set to start trading today but hasn't quite yet the company priced its new stock at thirty eight dollars. That's at the low end of predictions. Robin hood is a stock. Trading system charging no commission favoring people starting out with their stock picking and with those who informed by chat online. Try to show up the wall street. Titans let's go deeper with erik gordon. A professor at the university of michigan's ross. School of business morning. Good morning david. Why is robin hood in a sense. An outlier the public offering itself is unusual in a couple of ways. They're setting aside a large chunk of the shares for their own customers. People who trade on robin hood and there are some technical things about the offering that. Make it very tricky. For example in most ipo's the insiders the founders and venture capitalists who have really cheap stock because they bought it a while ago. They don't get to sell for six months. It allows the market to stabilize but in robin hood. A lot of them can sell right away. They can go out the back door while new investors come in the front door so some democratizing people who normally not get a piece of this right away are getting a piece of this but the big dogs. Also get to play without a lockup period. Yes so this is posited as democratization We're going to let the individual investors in. You have to wonder. Is that because they love their customers or is that because they need their customers to buy the stock in order for the ipo to work. When somebody comes to give me something that i not usually getting. I always wonder why they picked me. Do i just look like a soccer. Well we'll see still this model. The robin hood is pursuing. You think it'll spread. I don't think the ipo technique is going to be that popular. There are no big advantages to the company there. No real big advantages to the investors. I think it's a little bit of gimmick and what's with all the. Ipo's here in late. July early august. I mean before cove. It wouldn't say launching. A new stock was trae. But it didn't seem quite as in know we've gone through a period where going public was very much out of style. Founders were told lots of ugly stories about what it's like to be a public company so they held off now it's as if the dam has broken and we have a flood of ipo's including from companies where it's amazing they can go public at all. It's a market in which some people are going to make money at a lot of people are going to lose money all right. Eric gordon is a professor at the university of michigan's ross. School of business. Thank you so much. My pleasure david. Facebook stock is down three point three percent in early trading. Here that's after. The company warned. Its profits could quote decelerating significantly in the second half of this year it spring prophets did just double we should say. The company said separately that only with only a few exceptions all of its us. Employees who work in the office need to be vaccinated. Google just announced a similar policy in new york. I'm david brancaccio. This is marketplace morning report from apm american public media molly would host of marketplace tech a show that helps you understand the digital economy. How a more of the country get access to better internet. What new jobs will artificial intelligence create or destroy and what tools will help us. Survive are already changing climate. We tell the stories behind the technology in our lives and every weekday. Our podcast brings you insight. You won't hear on the radio checkout marketplace tech. Wherever you get your podcasts.

robin hood equifax david brancaccio de tomar Jerome powell jed kim tomar abdul lingo silicon valley erik gordon ing sydney david dodgers
Ep. 609 Ludovica Leone   Get US Market Ready With Italian Wine People

Italian Wine Podcast

24:34 min | 3 months ago

Ep. 609 Ludovica Leone Get US Market Ready With Italian Wine People

"Thanks for tuning into my new show get. Us market ready with italian wine people. I'm steve ray author of the book to get. Us market ready and in my previous podcast. I shared some of the lessons. I've learned from thirty years in wine and spirits business helping brands enter and grow in the us market. This series will be dedicated to the personalities who have been working italian wine sector us. Their experiences challenges and personal stories all uncover the roads that they walked shedding light on current trends business strategies and their unique grants. So thanks for listening in. And let's get to the interview before the show us the shoutout. Our new sponsor federal line federal has been the largest one gop not since nineteen twenty have generously supplied us with our new t shirt. July one. just donate fifty euros and it's all yours. Plus we'll throw our new book jumbo shrimp guidance. Initial ideas entity for more info go to italian dot com and click donate or check italian broadcast on instagram. This week's edition of get. Us market ready with the talian wind. People i'm pleased and honored to have as a guest today vida liana who is Dot ece ludovic is the director of the global mba food and wine in at the bologna business. School and i've had the pleasure of club lecturing at the classic. A couple of times in personnel psomas recently zoom ludovico. Why don't you give us a little intro to yourself before we get started with the interview first of all. Thank you steve. For disease mutation. And i'm really pleased to be here so anti-saddam ludovico leona and that actor the global mba food and wine and bologna business school. Which is the business school of the university of bologna. And as most of you know the university of alone as the oldest university in the west and word since it was born in ten eighty eight the university of bologna business. School was born to twenty years ago. So is pretty young and our program. The global mba for the wine is at is tenth edition these year so it is also a young program which is growing really fast. What was i didn't realize woods. That knew what was the impetus. Why did they create that. Well the love nba or the business. I get the business school. The global mba the global. First civil. it was more. The food wine is just one of the trucks of business school level and we decided to revive the global in gave just global. Because we have both professors and students coming from all over the world and we decided to to create an mba that was not directed justice. A general mba generally stick mba. Boxer wanted to to offer a program that was specialized. You would are the pillars of meeting teddy production seven. That is why i'm available. India the divided in different trucks. And we have of course the food wine and now we have the supercar super by two motorsports says since we are in bologna. Also at the center of the of the motto valet. We have designed Goods track track now summation a robotic Naseem said annot many people out aware that immortal yonder is a huge production of automation and packaging bali also and agreed energy and sustainable businesses. Again ballooning in the media of the huge and rising interest in an rian businesses are sold this suffering data a we we decided to To focus on our student seven in the first half of the mouser. I of course have all classic. Mba or says dan in the second part of the of the master. They specialized in the industry. They they selected. That is a little to the distinction. Distinctive characteristic refine chrome compared to other programs. Our other mba programs around award and lennon. Just say dat. We're really proud to be be only mba data offer. Cut these kind of specialization. So that is why we decided to launch this program to actually put in practice what our faculty was doing research on and also to respond to requests from the companies that we were working with because you know companies are always looking for new talents international talents especially in italy. A worry we are looking for the nation of our company and so to attract talent sir in those pacifica industries that we needed a special special programs so it is a little bit. Why the rationale why. We started this program so few years ago. Can you give me a sense of The staffed supporting it the number of people in the in the system. And i do want to give a call out to barbara biondi. Who is the one who coordinates Everything that i do with bologna business school but once give me a little background on a number of people. Okay so I the number of employees them or the number of people working for the would which kind of number of the staff at the university that are directly related to the business school. Okay so i can give you this number in Second moment because i don't have it in the moment. How many people work. Yeah the faculty members second tell you that are more than two hundred general at the school. We have More than five hundred companies that are in our network him and we have in general. The school has a eleven fulltime masterson. Both in english and in insulin and thirteen executive master's plus we have a lot of open programs Custom programs than we do directly with companies so these is a little bit the numbers in terms of how many many a masters in terms of many people every year with grad way to more or less six hundred students. Both young people are so. Let's a young. I mean people who are already have their bachelor's degree or Foot three managers. Enterpreneur sim so people that are there for executive program Sounds pretty large. Also one of the things. I've noted this is more of a statement than a question is very focused on the practical aspects of all. Listen and the and the idea of working with companies to help shape that which you teach and get Intern opportunities for the students. So they get real world rather than just academic experience and you're dealing with five different tracks. There's motorsports modina. That's kind of where all the car companies are located. Yes but also in bologna so a modern and you have had aria bats. You'll also have between modern on your lamborghini yet in in nine bologna. We have the ladder in which is an apartment near parma. So we have been very a very concentrated network of companies in the multi. Bali and Sure i'm forgetting you mentioned. It was the oldest university in the world. The university itself is in downtown bologna. Some of the gut destroyed during world. War tuba prebuilt. A particularly remember the medical auditorium which was beautiful wood building but the graduate school is housed in avila that Dates back a couple of hundred years can tell a little bit about that. Well the headquarters of the bologna business. School are on the heels of bologna. Bologna's now abedi. Big town is a university town. The the law la is located just ten minutes from downtown bologna and Is is called villa originally was owned by a cardinal meaning that west of alani and it was these S is some residents. Say to usually you know. They had the downtown at the winter. Residents in up on the heels wet was fresher during summer. They used to stay. And allow is the desert sixteenth century. And he is one of the elements that say that impressed. The most of our students in our faculty who love being there ask studying and working and about the villa is at the moment. The bill is not enough so because of course we doing lot so we we are. Adam building is exactly front of the villa we. We are building a new campus which has been designed by a famous architect Office from bologna working on sustainable projects and so in phnom. Let's hope that soon. We will see our new campus just in front of of the well. I'm looking forward to that. The would comment for the people are listening to bed. I can't show photographs but the the classroom. I think that most of the courses are taught in certainly the ones that like tra- once a semester is this fifteenth century thing with frescoes on the ceiling in the big wooden beans and all and in this huge fireplace classic. You know drawing room. I guess from the fifteenth century for sixteenth century and. Then they have a big wire with a projector coming down right over the head of the of the lecture to screen so they've adapted wonderful old room to Modern teaching methods. Okay of one of the things that you guys impressed me was your connection with everything. Happening at borana fiero particularly with with stevie stevie was a commencement speaker about three years ago. She's force course behind the italian wine podcasts. That we're listening to right now and you also have done a couple of intern programs with her kind of as a result of the commencement speech. Can you tell us about your relationship with all. That's going on in verona. Yeah so of course the first of all you know is a. She's a force of nature so we ask the moment we met. We met to nine new york a few years ago. Thanks to hook and we immediately stopped to talk in the possibilities of collaborating With with our program and what we did do was a sam. Im- biting m navigating to nation of four now small seminars and dense stevie Offered to our students have several times interest position because as you mentioned before we have strong relationship with many companies and both in the future and in the beverage m so in the not only the in the wind but in general in the beverage industry. Intonation is one of these Of these companies and thanks to these companies saw thanks to stevie among the others We were able to talk to our students Talents and also to to let these talent remain in our territory because stevie in boston meaning intonation on higher few of our students so it is interesting the fat in its vat international environmental so it was not really difficult for them to finding invite by breeding environment very active and they always tell me they learn a lot from stevie from unita intonation on so this is just one of the things that we did together bosses llosa mention we You know in our course our global we have a course e app teach a school business development. And it's not actually fronta classes more number to read where we work with students and companies as soon as where like consultants and we work on a specific project and For yeah let's say the twice so we work with international on on the project so for example last year we worked with a group of students on a new version on our white wine. Now i'm sure you know is the Be to be fair of Nation and the students worked awfully to develop new formats new ideas new content. You know speaker suggestions. So for inciting the fair and of course calling derived so everything was The ideal of the of the event was impressed cents. But then was not so that. That's a little bit when apple so the classes are taught in english. Which is the only way that i could But then covid came. so how does A university class that really is defined by the physical presence of international students in in this international city of bologna. Had you adapt to the impact of a gobert well. We reacted very fast to the outbreak of kobe. Because before the government launched the lockdown we decided to to move everything online and to to avoid today. glasses in presence nassir and we. We were able to transport everything l. Classes all the seminars online and uh these was of course a pt. For many students that arrived in italy to visit companies to be fair to interact with people from the industry to travel the country. Nc directly with artists efficiencies of our production have we tried to balance these with plenty of webinars leadership talks. I mean the troll company towards the unedited that we could do and these was last year while we were a little bit scared of what would happen desire because we were. I mean from september. Two thousand twenty eight academic year. We went a little bit skeptical because we were thinking. Oh my god now who is going to come. I mean an into apply to to this program because people cannot travel and are afraid to travel. Everything is just big question mark and we were very i mean We saw a betting huge reaction from students from prospered students. And these yeah. We had a greek class so we the numbers didn't change. We had maybe. The suits were more motivated than in the past because they made a big investment in this moment to quit their job to come and to to followed fashion so i think that was really a challenging year. We had a few few months online and few months imprisonment set so we had the possibility to have the usual visits that we do not of course all of them have seen that students even though they finish the classes now they are continuing to go visiting companies especially wineries in this spirit. The adia traveling goal italy to to keep up with the things they lost in this month. I wanted to give a shout to kathy heuer. Who's president of lyrics and mutual friend of ours and kathy introduced me to you. Tell us about what kathy does and her class. yes kathy. gas is a great friend also she to. This is also. i cannot thank every time. I think you're lots of so. Kathy started to to have a seminar. You know at the school. I metro during initially and few years ago. We were sitting together and launch Just randomly you know the certainty producing meeting you do during these events and we just get connected them and we started to to to be in touch and to To talk and so she came first seminar and now she's teaching at the school. That's the fourth year stitches. And she has a course called innovation and ration- in the inefficient one industry so talks about innovation in terms of business model innovation in terms of our product innovation and out to communicate. Also you know innovation so of course. Now she's an expert in a big data on the use of data in the in his industry. And so i think that ihr approach is always suffered that students off and the fact that you bring a lot of experiences from de frente speakers south that students really appreciate the fact that she has a direct approach on these on these businesses after the students love. Because you know as you mentioned before we have a lot of damage in the program but we prefer to give students also the real perspective on business so they come here to to learn how to work in industry and so it's very important to have connections with people that work in the industry just studied industry so within that the chew perspectives are complementary aso. They have a lot of professors semi coming from you. Know we say practitioners entrepreneurs managers professionals from the industry co. and at cathy's company shout out for that is in olympics and you can catch it online and see an outline of the kind of work that she does both talion wineries as well as domestic. Us wineries very interesting stuff. And what other teachers do you have. That are visiting. That are doing interesting things that you would like to highlight so in general. Our our our program not is composed by professional So we rely on locked On our business network him and is called advisory committee torkham and he's is made by leading companies in that interested that participate in designing and implementing our program so for example one of this company is going to sound just to meet named want and in the in the one industry we have as i was saying. Gotta jump Three for example. These hosted the student four tour of the company and talking with them. We work for example with them also with auntie naughty and we had students going to the company to visit the company with their expert manager. We have every year. We bring students to visit Apply company so we have. Marco introducing the company to dan and talking off second theme so these are just few names for wine industry and as for the food companies are working with with us We have gland at all. We have cop. We have many companies that come in teaches to our students said lupul montenegro. She's a very famous beverage company. Not just beverage because they are very famous in food boxer day famous for the brand. What angel boxer they were also on them in the food industry. So these are part of the company. Name some In terms of our faculty. It's just Academic t- We have professors coming from lowered. Wert italian professors the abroad and intonation professors and so coming from different countries in university so these year for example we had Paternity to have all across of who came as a distinguished visiting professor and talking about the nation relations To to our students We have a lone wolf was a professor of engineering and at technion from is it out so betty different profiles and you see not only in the food industry beverage industry. We have professors coming from And what you. We have professor coming from So we have very large network. Professional professional professors come from different Different universities in different different countries coal faculty of course from university of bologna. I was particularly pleased when the one year electra. Dare i i guess it was. Before he must have been vinitaly and Saw a bunch of the students in italy in the same thing at wine to wine which was the business to business conference You mentioned earlier that stevie puts on in verona used to be or is in november december. And i think in might actually be live this year. So why do i know something to put on your calendars but it was great to see the students. They are in interact with them outside the campus. While you're there with a whole bunch of people from the industry and that was i think very effective not only just for the students for networking in looking for jobs and connections and so forth but also for the companies that attended. So i'd like to bring this to a close in a always asked this question. What what is the big takeaway. We talked about a bunch of things of what we spoke about for. What do you think is the most useful thing that you talked about today that our listeners might be able to take away from this conversation so i think that yeah for me. The biggest takeaway is always when i talk about. This program is always ball since making are trying to understand what we did without doing. Turn to stand doing right. And what can we do. Best and in terms of what people can take away from asia. i think is importance of Of education and continue to you know the vital in advance so vacation a even in the toughest periods ending these in in crisis moment a because we These year was really challenging for for our students. For example box info companies bought to was betty enriching for them and they had the best era of their lives even though was the pandemic think that investing in education and continue to think about who do best. What can we learn. How can we also learn from charter. And and what. That's one of the biggest thing we try to To push students to do not to have these to be. Fda big family where they can leverage on charter and learn from chatter. That was ludovico leone. Who is the director of the global. Mba for food and wine at bologna business. School founded in ten eighty eight. I love saying that. Thank you very much for participating in today's conversation. Thank you steve. Thank you to newark. And of this podcast. Thank you for listening. And all comes back to stevie. That's gonna the genesis of so much that happens in town into these days so thanks. Tv steve. ray. Thank you very much for listening to Get us market. Ready with italian wine people and we'll be back next week with another edition of the show and a big thank you to leeann for taking time out of her schedule to share her garments with us. And we'll see you all next week. Thank you this is steve ray. Thanks again for listening. On behalf of the italian wine podcast.

bologna university of bologna vida liana ece ludovic saddam ludovico leona mba food and wine and bologna university of alone as the old stevie barbara biondi bologna business school Us steve ray alani italy stevie stevie Naseem llosa instagram kathy masterson
Always Bet On Black: Lifelong Friendship - A Conversation w/ Frank Reynolds

What's Going On With AABE?

1:13:38 hr | 1 year ago

Always Bet On Black: Lifelong Friendship - A Conversation w/ Frank Reynolds

"This is paula glover. Welcome to today's episode of always bet on black today. Talking to frank reynolds president of holdings where he has responsibility for united illuminating connecticut. Natural gas southern connecticut gas in berkshire gas. Frank has also held leadership position that bridge rolla and avante grade. He is a retired major from the connecticut. National guard and a really good friend. Hope you enjoyed the show. Welcome everybody to today's episode of always bet on black of today. I have with me. Frank reynolds a. We have been friends for more than twenty five years. That's amazing us and so there's a lot talk about the. We'll start a little bit from the beginning and i wondered if you could just tell people kind of a little bit about you where you're from. Where did you grow up that sort of thing store so i guess at some point when we get to when i had my first child tell people you were on the first few black call. So i'm a i am a jamaican. Many people say american because adventure most of my life the accent but every often when i try and turn it on comes on a lot. You can tell you know. There's some routes they're what i you know. We we emigrated here. Immigrant emigrated from jamaica. When i was very young four years old and we. We moved to connecticut harbor connecticut and unfortunately you know very early in life about a year or so after we got here. My mom asked the way and you know we explore this conversation. I'll tell you that you know. Although i had a short time with her my memory of time with her just so explicit installing influence on my spirit my frankly In fact Again when we there we'll talk a little bit. About how i i stumbled across the place where we lived when he passed away with one night when i it just was kind of an amazing experience but i grew up in bloomfield connecticut area. And you know it was a great experience Because bluefield would i had come to learn was one of these towns by design that was meant to be birth. It was a test town. I guess you don't haven't done a lot of research on his so my classmates you know pretty much from by elementary school years right through to high school. Were of a very diverse. Background knows Let's just saves fifty white fifty percent fifty percents Tinos hispanic folks a little bit of middle eastern those. It was relatively diverse for summer. You know just a great experience known throughout my high school years and you know early in my career also joining national guard when was like after this juncture where i realized that i needed to figure out what i gonna do with my life and so i decided to join the army national guard and mare in We all believe it or not. You know it doesn't show right down. So when i enjoy the national guard i had hair right. This is the michael jackson days. He was around a very popular. So you're saying you had a jerry curl okay. Are you saying that something that you had a jerry curl album. It was all about the classy curl l. Headed say it. Yeah well here. We go so i show up to basic training. Seventeen years with with it all going on and throw sergeant comes over to me and says ain't be no michael jackson's in latin into your spot so on day one here i am with you. Know hundreds of kids from across the country and he put me in the hot seat. He made me a squad leader in beer in that never had formal leadership role in my ice. I was like front bear. I wasn't on student council or anything like that. I was your normal shit just having a good time in high school right so here i am. They one puts me in the hot seat. Net got fifteen kids from across the country. Urban suburb ountry boston. Arkansas old white black hispanic that. I'm in charge and of this kind of eight weeks story short. I'm eight weeks later or people that were assigned while the one i was the only one that survived and graduated is a slab leader at the end of the course which i think it was just a testament to some of the natural skill started to come out. Rambis rain yeah when we talk when i talk with barrett one of the things that he said is and it was a great takeaway even to me. Was you know. Sometimes people recognize things in you that you don't know were there and that you have to trust that what they recognising you is actually a real thing that they are accurate and i might think suggested. Perhaps whatever it was that you brought with you with your jerry curl and whatnot. He saw something he saw something in you. That said you know what this this kid right here. There's something here and let me see what that is gonna grow to be in the next eight weeks. That'd be correct. you think so. I mean i might think that particular disposition at merrick shared might be a little bit more appropriate a little later on my career. And you know there. I think he just us. Put me in hassi bernie out. The other reduce got fired and recycled and i was able to work with people strengths. By frankly and that's what. I'm recognize if i reflect. I learned how to use each person's strengths. Guys in the country guys in the city without and be right there alongside with them Without necessarily you know taking leadership rule in too late the beneath outright they're leading right alongside as we say right sometimes you you in front. Sometimes you right next. Sometimes you buy charlotte sharing them on but to bears point. I would say you know when i joined southern connecticut. Gas private you here. And within a year that the assistant to the chairman might recall frescoes. There he saw that. I didn't haven't first generation coming from jamaica first generation college graduate and so i didn't have anyone saying okay. This is what she needs to do. When you start of baragan all that time to allege that others are privileged might have. We don't necessarily Is first generation grads answer but somehow a german at the time selling gas sauce upping. Now what's up basically rears. I'll say to my career and you may be this assistant now. Bear in mind. There was only one other person than it had quarter among fifteen twenty years into their career ahead. This was a director on the company and is assistant. Role was basically refers executive interactive under nelson young twenty. Something year old kid assistant to the chairman assistant to the chairman director. Which meant i was working on this event. And i get to see all of that. So he saw something that i realize existed myself at that time and that really is my career where i today. So let's go back. We're gonna take a quick step back. i think of you. You're in the service you know he'd get through basic training. But you and i did not know this. I knew you know had retired as a major. I didn't know that you spent your entire career in the national guard. Correct i what made you you go to school. Southern connecticut southern connecticut state university connecticut. Which isn't that new britain or wallingford. Okay tell me about that. You go to central. How do you end up at southern connecticut in the first place that happen. So connecticut you might recall was a heavily manuafacturing. Stay you know at the time. United technologies was the last employer state and like many central grads and other grants. I had a technical degree. I was working. I did a few internships. At united technologies and manufacturing engineering department in other areas and so when i graduated from college actually was working at research center and basically what the research center incubator for spin offs businesses. That technology develop and so late develop company united outs ties and believe it or not. So this again. Urbanites was A company that was making what we call frequency modulator chips that were going to be used interacted tv so well before the date of net flicks and all these other streaming services but this was a lithium nyabaik ship that was going to send all information on demand over hundreds of miles instant working there. I only lasted for about two months or so. Great lesson in terms of what i learned there. But you know. I wanted to. The manufacturing sector and their graham relatively new grad on employed. There was a researcher. A phd researcher there this research center that game saami must've saw something in me. Had a side business and said hey come more russ Here and so. I went into debt. It was interesting because it was the star of business we atmosphere for a little while. Because all that. I need a little bit more certainty. So this company tells me this other manufacturing company all on me and i went in to. This company has a process engineer on this company isn't berlin connecticut not too far from Headquarters wherever sources had orders sent. And so i worked at this company year. But i wanted as a processing air. I did some things very simple things. And there may be general hormone of the entire It was very tough. Sixty league twelve hour shifts rotate inches. So one week does work again. Mid twenties seven in the morning till seven at night. Monday through saturday following lurking seven at night seven in the morning. Monday presented very tough. So that was really interested in that sense a Did some great. Thanks. it's really interesting. That the workforce there was banik and polish and neither of Each other language in need are going release so a lot of their communication was handed arm signals which learn a lot about militant but they had some pets in general sheer on the chess. I went in there. And i talked to run as much as they understood english at atop them about the fact that they were professionals and each of them what they did in terms of developing that we were delivering for high involves Was crucial in order to develop a high-quality flawless product out. The door and i spent fifteen dollars fallen on these little dry. Erase boards that immediately. And what i what i need. Virus be picture is plant in these large presses. And i kind of put up like this information system on these different plants or presses. These try rates Each job that we ran down the run rate of job. That scrapped billets. We're supposed to use this as aluminum. Extrusion three point and it was just amazing it after we ran The crew was relatively spread out around the facility. Secretary shop people come over to the board. Look at how did and posted there would be the feedback and you could see them shaking their heads in just a they had you know. We brought our scrap down like fifty percent. Production went through. They sent me the company sappi down atlanta to instituted. Same analogy mom Plants down there. They had all kinds of people. I coming up at all as spent and spent a little time. Talking to these people familiar. They were adding and You know. I guess the rest is history. The said bigger job allows excess of they were paying while at the same time and then along comes a friend of mine is hanging on vast recruiting the veneers diverse engineers. And would you be interested tilly. And that's no offense to anybody who works for the state but at once away from in oregon at the dmv or something. This is before the before the dan. You know the dnb back in the day. Nobody wanted to go. It's not quite a government job but it was like jira less gonna move slow when they get you get you there and they will come back them as you know. I didn't return their call for a good month. And then they called again in finding went in a lot of things were going on. At that time. I realized i didn't want to be engineers engineering design the next rocket or working with anything out of work out bandmates engines and things like that. I don't wanna do that. Recognize again combining that you'll learn down a central and you know leadership skills that i was getting to militant which by far ahead of my feerick right. None of my peers were getting exposed to people across the country. Different ages at seventh long enough in yourself. And so i was. You know all of that came together at this thing out. And you know as i said we're recruiting Product all the but really what the chairman of the company was you know basically a what he all the future leaders in his mind coming here learn about the company and then you know in the lead the company so i rotated for two years. I went through different departments and it was extremely educational seemly educational book. One of the things. I learned on that journey really was the amount of people that i met and the relationships that form and the resources that form or able to put into my little box of edgar reach out to necessarily. I didn't have the answer. But so i could get the answer from somebody did experts and it was really surprising to me because recalling how southern was relatively small companies for five hundred employees and two locations that were all of ten miles apart and i i knew people in both locations where people that worked on location isn't really either face your if you understanding privy here but so amazing debt. You know this. The relationship that i gathered in that short time exceed some other relationships that have been there just working on facility. The obstacle pause them. Make sure that. I'm on the right talks. Yeah now you are. But i think you know you you said at the beginning that you know when you first went into the national guard and she'll basic training platoon leader Kind of major squadron leader. Maybe just to see if he could wish you know if you would fall out to sea had yes. So he was. He was the drill. Sarda jail started. But i i might suggest that there was something else there with you right through experience at ut land long. I haven't no but times be sick. I am some of the sometimes. It's it's the ability to understand that it is a simple solution that gets the most out of people. So when you talk about your experience you said you know as leader. Sometimes you're in front of people you're besides people you're behind them. You're trying to figure out right. Pull their strengths out of them to make them better on. The maybe was very intuitive. But you go into this new role on this this big clanton and you said you have you know. Half the employees basis polish f is hispanic. And for whatever reason it occurred to you. Let me have a whiteboard to let people know how they're doing as a motivating factor. And perhaps you would not have articulated that way. Then but certainly. That's actually what you did and so might just that. There's obviously something in you. That even came up with that idea. If you're saying people are coming to feel like how did he motivate people in and with you emphasize that costs fifteen dollars right that the solution was cheap. I might emphasize and what i want to ask you about this. But you came up with the solution. Like what does he even think that that was the thing to do that. That that could be a motivating factor. So is that a little bit about my experience. Early on at united technologies photonics tonics first job out of college. When i went there. I was looking for what i call textbook solutions. That united had that transition from college to workspace again didn't have those cycles programs around like they do today and so i you know terms of preparation. It was like okay. I got my first job. It's jobless s commute ever because it was two miles from hope and i was faced enforcement. You know trying to develop this system for these lithium textbook responses textbook answers in there was no textbook scenario. If you will for this particular situation on sell the author for a second and then every call you in the military. I was off to some training in one day. I had just the goal of piccinini where we had. We had a challenge. And i was the remember to the day gone across the springfield feeling. I had this idea. I just had this idea of doing something with military combine but just different and i shared it with my commander in again. It's at the end. We did it and it was a big hit and that really got me going with noble hutch. He's coming in your ideas ideas to folks and that's the low number that's gonna get you in so ever since then a ever since then you know after i graduated from officers went to officer candidate school after so i went to basic training. As i said successful spoiler then went to advance training the honor graduate of the pants individual training and i went back to my unit and in some sorry for bouncing around here but it's important because i went back to my unit and nineteen years old at a semi thinkin. And my sergeant. We had this exchange in. Who's only white guy says to me. You know you're not faded thanking gave me a and here. I was on a graduate ready to do great things like it really set me back really set me back. You know so my response to that. Was i went to answer candidate school and eighteen months later i was his boss and i handled. But my point is you know so going back to where it wasn't in terms of the topic. I realized that ideas is what not only the military wanted needed. Solas corporate america. They wanted idea. So that's where the idea around reading visual workplace at the manufacturing company came from and subsequent ideas when i joined southern connecticut gas. I think that's probably would be recognized. By the chairman of the company time was brought in from the manufacturing sector which was very service oriented only mentioned management ties in a lot upper a type philosophies were really drilled said the united announce at so i brought in someone that service quality if you will into the service sector which really was just at a time i think really trying to focus on us and the quality of transactions with customers and so i implemented. I remember one of the early things i bet. It was a customer satisfaction survey. Tell us that did when we came to your house. Installed geffen a degree restored appropriate. Weedon we leave your lawn and mess and we ruin your driveway to be calling on time we do at one settler. Whatever and we little incentive up eric recall back in the day we were still weiss business soak as an incentive to get the response rate up. You know we offer something to that effect of gas grills something like this. We had a great response rate and we got great feedbacks on it eventually. I think really let its way to some of our debut star tracking us a little bit later so again. Simple idea that turned into something Formal a lot more impactful business but it starting running across the field. And if so. I'm i want to delve deeper into this idea of being paid to think. Now i will share with you. My my dad retired from the army as a sergeant and all of my nine brothers and sisters will tell you that the one thing he said to all of us ain't nobody paying you to think and it all the time as kids ain't nobody paying you to think and i actually thought that it was something he came up with until you just shared that story and that way i know where he got it from And i can remember the day that i said to my father daddy. Somebody's paying me to fake and caught him off guard but he was really proud. And so tell me about that idea of paying people to think. Because i think you know sometimes and you're not the only one i've heard i've heard Executive very early. My career say No i i i he. This particular executive was giving employees Tuition reimbursement no matter what their major was and his reasoning for. That was that college Polish taught you how to fake and he said you know. I can teach you to do anything but i can't teach you how to think and so you know that's what education does education will help you think so as a leader. Tell me like well. How do you think about that with you. Know the people that you're leading now in this idea really paying people to feed your so you know as i explained. I'm from very humble beginnings. And you know i didn't go to an ivy league school and go to one of these top tier universities and so one of select shapes meet by event. One of the things that i attempt to do is happy. Recognize that you know. You can be way more successful than me. I try to build that level of confidence in people so that they recognise again. I just greg. you're next year. I'm different than you so-called my pants on the same way. But i really try to understand that. They possess the ability to be extremely successful and next sons with confidence. And and so. I try to create a culture where you know. I don't want people to fail and have something. Mental occur right. But i won't feel comfortable and those ideas and i don't want them to be united saharan this now this head coach hundreds to recruit me. I want to bring you someplace for each place upside down all this sentence. I want incremental gains and benefits this little tweets starting from scratch those fifty dollar investments at may significant parts and so when we talk about paying people who think it's about you know create me create a culture where people are extremely comfortable in experimenting. Where necessary but coming up with that is to solve some challenges that we face in trying to anticipate some of those areas that we might need to explore look for those incremental benefits that can whether safety or operational efficiency certainly customer satisfaction environmental stewardship Diversity where wherever it might be just having the confidence on so that you can do that is to tell ask why people right you know go teach somebody to do something that you yourself candidate amherst first time. I said something. Like for instance. You're not a writer by the my handwriting me do that. Well i mean some symbol it. Is i invite faith forwarder. Let's okay. I'll go get him in silence on hot arrive. I'm not saying that physics teaching you you sell can't do is empower as a leader when you right. I'm not a i took over. Semantics are electric business. Some years ago of planning agent. I extracted imagination it. Tougher signing on transmission system. We were able to make our planning engineers better right. We're able to give them a top to go out and and do some pretty amazing things on our system to increase reliability and in that sense customer satisfaction lower costs etc. Oh so by extension. Does that mean than as a leader. You want to surround yourself with people who may be better than you. Do you feel like you know you wanna make sure you know as much as those you lead or more to feel like. I'm making a room smarter. Not necessarily that on the smartest person in the room. But i'm hoping that i'm connecting people that need to be connected in those challenges that we face to come up with the appropriate solutions to again lead us the words that we need to get so. Yeah want smart people around me. I don't my under smarter than me. That most of the time they are right. And it's all good says i'm comfortable with. I love being around people who are smarter than me to learn. And that's what. I talked to someone who might want to change company chip tad impacts the goal. So you're now at southern connecticut gas and your you know the assistant to the ceo. Mr cross foe. Who i remember fondly and really. I think have pretty tremendous career while you're at southern connecticut. Gas live opportunity to move and do some new things which may seem unusual to folks because it was right as you. I described the utility company. The gas company. I'm i wanna talk a little bit about like that. You know and how that must have been very different than what you expected. Yeah it was. It was quite amazing as we all know folks that work inside of eastern salaries. It's their challenges about right. There's many challenges for us to today with the policy holes out there any state. And and what have you back. Then on i got exposure. I was able to get exposure to so many different things again at a young age in in just so early. Mcbrayer was presenting to our board of directors. You know which had some pretty esteemed. Individuals on the board at the time is again as i learned after after the fact and and so things like that Being able to do that you know again to the or and senior level management in and still being able to do different projects which gave me a lot satisfaction. So let me just reminded me of something that happened at that point to which makes me appreciate on having that exposure so early in my career. So i do that all. I was responsible for a lot of operations series in every day. You can see what you did in someone satisfaction. Because i can say and we ran a thousand miles of pain. Whatever was put in xylene services. But you could see each day then what i started working for. Mr cross alert was more strategic. So there wasn't that same daily satisfaction. Luckily years out. If you will it mergers acquisitions or just long term business opportunities and so it was really good to have that early in my career. Because i started moving up through the chain the chain of the organization as an executive at aecom cleft brainer. You have more strategic view each day. Start wondering okay. Let's get What's the value that i added today. It's harder to see. But i recognize that you know again from that group less than on That dumb that's that's how it is at this stage you you. You put in longer term use and making sure that done continue to engage employees that was longer term introduced Everyday wins that keep them going in defined satisfaction. It is a sad again. I feel great satisfaction. In going back. To what i mentioned about helping people become confident when i see people that you go from you know not necessarily thinking that they can do much do anything at a particular juncture to really Whether it's leading large projects are just accomplishing significant tasks that they didn't feel that they can do as shooting rewarding. I've had a lot of military situations like that and situations within like Which streaming rewarding as about. Who is still the confidence in you. Where did that come from. Is that something you developed. That something that you think you've just always kind of have that level of confidence and self assuredness. You know quite frankly right. so i think it's evolved. I mean you've known me a long time. And i think it's been through scientists and so at one point in my career because nobody really said what but at a point my careers are always add. Thank you. I keep getting put into his areas that i know nothing about. I didn't think it was fair. Won't go run appear eating year in. Okay take mental okay. We need some safety. You go run this operation centers. What white wine me. But then you realize you know those those those common those skills than you can take transferable skills that you can say to you. Thank you to each of those assignments which is particularly around leadership with your y. You keep getting those centers so at Absolutely sections satisfied to to be able to to continue to add value. And that's where the confidence right. So i share the story so often so up until twenty twelve or so in career was ended Pretty much you know operations operations support type roles in then. I get a stamp on the shoulder by ceo up in new york. You also and he asked me to take over our what we call asset management business with electric transmission systems electric distribution system substations electric substations all things that a fairly had no exposure to because it's by bitcoin. You're still focused on gas. Yeah yeah prior to that was primarily. Guess from my purview. Was that just gas at that point. I did have responsibilities in parts of our electric business. More from oracle wasn't leading any particular function and this was going to be leading and that again out. So i go into this thing. And i until this story once in a while because the day that i got asked to do this i remember. I went home as my own environment in house. I had to go out that night for something to answer them and again. My mind's going mountain started the reverse out of my garage and realize i hadn't opened the rest. If it hadn't been for the brake lights. I would have been buying new garage. Door never lies at moment at any. Get my head. It'll it'll be alright. So i quickly recognized again as leadership ryan eight unique Planner the transmission planner substation sky of education guy and that assignment was also challenging rewarding. His team that sound old just accomplish something phenomenal things to this day. In fact just this morning. I got a note from one of the folks on the team. Because we've got some professional development coming up and we're going to be in this together in a kid in terms of how they're going to include a niche atlanta. Thomas stanton is that. I have a weakness for doritos include. Act that's a secret thoughts. That's what builds the confidence event taken on some of those challenging stretch assignments And again certainly as a leader. As when i think for me it just said okay. There's a bus can go to for whatever the challenge might be very order. Felts talk me a little bit about the skills you mentioned like you recognize when you were being given these assignments and you felt like kinda did i make mad. Why am i getting dumped on with all these different things but that there was a set of skills right at some point you realize is skills that i'm carrying with me from me to simon. That's making you successful. Which is why you're getting these other opportunities talk a little bit about with those skills. Are you know quite well. And i think part of it is just. It's just a natural inborn steals not just in a in terms of just my demeanor select start there is. I'm i remember when i took over that group and i had a session. This who i am chatting blah blah employees came up to me afterwards else different. That's know essentially and we got the top of it but they are used to the savings tight lipped if you will executive editor of the end so and so my own time and what have to snap that a little bit more on any. This is me so. I think i'm the part of that is disarming. Some extremely approachable people. Bring things to me and in turn we work on those challenges ranked together that instills confidence. Right not only me Listening reacting and helping them through the house but in the house they rain. If you who's got the monkey rank the revolver that make sure that they they don't leave the monkey with me. They take a monkey with that problem. Right joel beautiful fame. And so you've at so that's certainly one goes. Thank israeli may sure that just the naturally that people see me as being very approachable but then i think people realize and recognize as i just mentioned Emailing at this morning and it's tough right How to maintain these relationships People across the organization. And i i do form a relationship jubal is might imagine with these groups. I mean it is. I won't say his personal issue but it is it's a it's there's a bond there that we about ru The exercises we go through and maintaining those relationships can be quite challenging. But i tend attempt to rebel. What so. I also think you know. Being genuine is key resilient people see that all right united this relationship to what i needed out of that make me successful. Acquire still beginning of relationship. Maybe not as often as we used to talk and interact but it was. It was nice to get out scorning from from former employees from what is going back seven years. So i think that's another skill. I might bring their not disarming being genuine and truly as i said to you looking in hoping l. being able to be more successful setting them up they wanna be more successful than me or or happy to help you. Here's what i did ask you can just replay saintly but leaded. Here's what helped me yours. Whatever man consider so. I try to make it also a lot of times. People wonder what's going on in the room right. The board meeting are what's on executive. Share that information as much as i can Realizing anger some face. That made themselves couldn't do it doesn't have to be that secret like is that some secret society are if you really want to be successful and as fire evidence roles and be successful when they get their own tells the door so they can prepare themselves for yeah that transparency at you know really important to people so this is a really great segue Let's talk a little bit more about relationships. Mentor ship You know sponsorship if you wanna talk about that as well but just important relationships relationships and because you know me well you know. I'm all about relationships. I that's kind of my thing Bullets talk about mentorship. I and so tell me if you have any mentors and if those were formalized mentor relationships what you went to someone said hey would you be my mentor or was it a relationship that became a mentor ship in time. Yeah so i would say early on as do kind of at the beginning. They were informal Assault certainly an informal mentoring. What was about this well. As some of these other mentors early honest you knew the good ones physically. And we added scott frank the call and a back and you know here again project engineer. Ceo company in while the ceo. Called me back. you know. that's awesome right. Get advice Help you navigate on issue and was true to their word right offered to be there and came through and delivered the call so i think certainly early on as i think about my career i decided those really kinda informal mentor. Certainly you know. There's women along the way when i was in my program on that that helped me navigate the challenges again. Various talk but later on. I would say than became you know in the executive role it's been more Pointed are deliberate in you know as you know a a great opportunity really sung maybe a decade ago now kemba walker and use Gone through for all. It's over for senate east and brought him in. He brought in a lot of mentoring until the coming really accelerated allowed learning across the company. Simple things that he implemented. Recognize evan on your term. Approximately eight loop to bring in and let me just take a minute to invite people who are listening that if they haven't heard our podcast with kevin walker. They should do that things. We talk a lot about mentor. Ship and service that you both sit share absolutely. Yeah so we only had Relationship pretty early on term you know recognize a similarities having the military but yeah he got the farmland informal mentoring coaches soviet coaches deliberate mentoring around professional development and extremely extremely helpful and then of course credible is still around are frankly in my life. He started move really on this trajectory in the basins due to be a friend mentor of throughout my twenty year career and then along the way a force through again more sometimes deliberately Allow informal mentors that had provided guidance. In in my case yet they come from a lot of different. Parts of the organization had a lot of senior Company but you know some police believe in the reverse mentoring view rates. I've had employees and has given me great advice. I remember early on. And you'll s right on by acadian you got in my mind's multitasking employees and black lacquer unum looking at blackberry nails in they're talking to the i got this back on the great but lack of such simple cheap. I pay attention. I'm talking to you and from that day on what i'm talking to employees. I'm talking until Him that multitasking is which we can't do right. Scientifically when we shan't so really just doing everything else exactly exactly so i. I believe in the power. Men's our mentorship. I had had a lotta great opportunity. I think it's a great learning opportunity to so many Aren't even draws have mentioned people over uk and result and along every exchange. The i feel like. I'm a long way to you know Which i think helps right in terms of that discussion that relationship. It's an exchange in an exchange Again i'm right next. I'm not above you. Just is the physician power if you will. I'm right here alongside. You talk to see how i can help and does help them. Give me some great beanbags that members south share with you as you described kind of the tools that you use the leadership of you know your demeanor and being disarming and transparency etcetera and you mentioned chuck release of those who are listening chuckle lee. Who was. I'm the president of yankee gas in the nineties african american main And while he led the. I worked for yankee gas. So he was my leader There many things about chief. Frank that remind of him in towns originally. He was young forty years old. But i will. I'll share the story with you Probably ninety three ninety four time from somewhere in there yankee gas was going through a restructuring where most companies going restructuring a reorganization. I think is the word that we use them. And you know it has multiple things and so they were to be layoffs and he came down to my division to share with everyone. You know what was happening and there might be layoffs that there were going to be layoffs. There was going to be reduction in the number of employees. And i can remember listening to that conversation in being stunned. By the fact the most employees felt bad that he had the bring them at news they felt worse about the fact that he was in that position of bringing that news than they did about the message that they were going to lose their jobs. That's how much they liked him. And i remember thinking like did you hear the whole speech but it says a lot about right when you are a leader who is transparent and really demonstrates i think assess the level of boll nobility about. Here's where we are as an organization. Here are the decisions that we have to make these very difficult decisions but these ordinances that we have to make for the company that people we see that in lots of ways in relief in this particular case people were like feeling bad for him. You know and and so. I see that in you. That's why i'm sharing this story Because i i see that kind of style In in you and so. Let's let's take you to talk about relationships so you talk about you know you talk bit about mentor ship I have a colleague who always talks about the kitchen cabinet. Who are those people Who also surrounded support you. Who may not necessarily be former mentor. They may not even necessarily be people who work in your organization. Toss me about how those other relationships have helped you in your leadership or even just in your career very broadly. So you're looking at one of whom right here so i will tell you. It was interesting right so his southern can make the gas like many other companies went through a bunch of mergers acquisitions lee went from this five hundred eighty company to control of thirty thousand forty thousand employees around the globe and if we were just southern connecticut gas and joe cresco was running. I think i think yeah. Career path is kind of online in pretty straightforward to seize your But i remember through acquisitions and mergers at kinda time. You ever one time saying to me you know. I must whatever role snowing at the time. you're glad to see that they continue to kind of new for whatever higher authority of assistance within a fan. I didn't see it but you head and and was Was extremely encouraging encouraging for me. Because while i wasn't sure ra- micro was going essentially at that time just that those simple words helped me to continue to remain this and continue to attempt to do the types of things that i wanted to do which continuing to build confidence in my ability leadership skills and agassi rian in terms of opportunities. That have hatton things that have been able to. Do you know certainly company. So you're certainly one of those folks in and out now some of the others. Yeah so okay. So we moved around and we. We've talked a little bit about mentor. Ship and tell me about sponsorship and if you've seen that kind of in your career and i'm asking you these questions because these are the kinds of questions that i'm asking. Oftentimes i don't really have a good answer for them. So alley will be stealing your responses so i'll tell you what it's critical Sponsor so that go back to kevin walker mentor and sponsor. Because i became a vice president when kevin was our chief operating officer. And you know he shared with me. Conversation or call is happening. Which was he said. Something along the lines while you don't be good by vices at since that simple vice president and this is a conversation. You must've been emily. Hr or some other executives. or whatever. And so i think that's where you know sponsorship because he doesn't people in our in own sauce. That can not move the needle as as i read that too long. We know this wasn't a journal. Boston around those decisions are made before the job is even hosted. Absolutely right and we don't even get a chance necessarily to put our name in the hat or when we put our name and the happiest kind go through the motions if you will. Because there's already a predetermined Rain a little You want all it. Unfortunately that exist without answers ship like a cabin or someone else there to To to enlighten people. I would say and make sure people are emanating integrity and reflecting the value. Right we try. We say word value this in that also. Are your actions actually demonstrating bill values that we espouse to be a company right. You want to do the same train. Do in terms of our condo Avenue and you sign off on knowledged These values that wealth actions she's lined up with everything right so yes. Sponsorship is a really important and is thinking about everything. That's going on this past summer. This past year has been extremely challenging. Receives brought a level of awareness Blow will stick year in west africa leaders conservative efforts the ursa pipe boards of directors and senior leadership in government. And there's this across the board so To make sure that that happens but yes you know. I think all of those sponsors sponsors health all. I just read an article this morning walmart and some of the actions it. You've taken intense aching influencing government really to alison's place that again help to promote the kind of intensity that we desire at least desire by sponsor important. It's important is in kiki suspenseful so for those people who are listening who want a sponsor. I certainly know that. I have benefited tremendously from sponsors. Even though i didn't know they were in my sponsors. Just probably snuck up on me a little bit but those of those people out there who are saying you know what how why put myself in a position where someone wants to sponsor me or get noticed or whatever. Are there things that people can do or is it a little bit of luck happenstance. Now maybe it is some of that. But i think at the same time you can you can have those conversations and i might approach in recommendation would be somewhat twofold either yugoslav formal route right. So if your hr as a program where they're connecting mentors. If you will and manatees together you have that avenue that you can take on or you have a more direct right. We all know the power base or the people in the company that we might want to know over can benefit from knowing and you seek those folks out new telephone about it now. I don't say. When i was in college. I had a friend that always used to come to in say something. United technologies studying irving. We had this guy At hansel tokes senior Stays active ranks to run raking up. Fact see have come hanzel in network not just had this really at or to me right because it's like i don't wanna use anybody to get and so there's gotta be in my mind when i don't i like to help. People ranks of the relationship ought to be more genuine than you know. Hate only be on your coattails. Do away and i ain't never been so. That would be my only caution. As if you're seeking a sponsor there should be some sign of connection hurricane. I i wouldn't necessarily see somebody out that you think can help you get ahead doesn't mean just doesn't see through that that does not value in that. I find that working really uncomfortable. If i'm to be honest. Because i'm actually really shy of introverts i actually don't like it And i've found for me that it's more palatable. When i go into it trying to figure out who i'm going to help that actually gets otherwise i really i would. I am absolutely the person standing in the corner sipping wanna drink and looking at the door in planning my exit quickly. We as possible nelson joke wrestler early on. Did you go to when. I was his assistant. I go to these events with him and he would do this outer loop thirty five forty but we may have to cut that out but everybody would have seen right arrow up all but so as an executive is valuable small lesson right because you go to a lot of Kids and wife. I like to spend some time with them. And so you know being there as much as you can scream. But it can't consumer-led i. I'm totally believe in our balance. Right definitely but i always wanted to be in a position to like you were to help you and i'm open opening helping anybody. That's the funnest part. Let's talk you started. Let's talk a little bit about work life balance as me and your dad. Two beautiful daughters a lovely wife. Love your little girls who seem to be growing up way to fast. But what is work life balance. Look like for you in your role. We always hear these conversations about work life balance for women and men. Don't go to the same thing. So i wonder if you share with us. What is after for you. Well you know. I i guess i try to make the best houston alan. I'm at my office that he actually. I'm taking the day awesome. Speak but we have family dinner every night. you know. it's a rare occasion that we're not at the table together having dinner together. It's very very important. Neither may be traveling or you know just might have an event but outside of that i would tell you. Eighty plus percent of the time were sent down every night and so. I'm good with making sure that happens. And if i need to walk out visas of any to get on the advert the owner. Whatever trees accessible ryan successful donnas in some latin. I'm good with getting back on later. In the evening justice make sure that providing classes feedback guidance. Whatever it might be at our that doesn't necessarily impact my family and at the same time. I'm very output. Emails in older way send pattern people during their time. I don't listen. I don't On saturdays every it has to be an agency for me to do that. Saturday's holidays quite. Frankly you know after our people on a friday. I'm not china. I want the people that are in our organization to that same were like balance that i myself tried injury and i you know i've always believed that but i certainly learned that. I used to work for the c. e. loads central maine our sarah and build a europe. I should like put our plans out there. But she travel and we want her actually be gone for a week or two and she really and told us to to develop people right Leader follower don't get on emails. I don't hang her. Leave people behind in charge and make sure you good. Enjoy your time your emmett and so you know i try to make sure i am aren't debt wisdom and use it myself on. Here's a ceo company that when she's gone she wasn't getting up early doing emails Out outgoing whatever. She was happy. So it can be done and i totally look to to make sure that i have that balance and as you said on these kids grow. Pass right one when i called you. Sixteen years ago nassar's driving right or or learning how to try and just happens to quickly so we need to make sure that. I have as much time as i can. So that's interesting when you shared with the president of central new power 'cause there it says a lot about her leadership in the amount of trust that she has in her teen when she checks out and sometimes a team struggles with relief or kind of checking out You know my approach. I'm not gonna checking out. But i'm very good at this. Actually is my decision and and people on my team will tell me tell you that they may send me something. And i'll say this is not my decision. What do you think we should do. You tell me as opposed to ask me because i want them to feel empowered. Feel for you to have a leader. Who kind of treated you guys that way. You know the world's not going to come to an end. And i'm gone and i know you guys got this. It's absolutely are on and i. I think you know part of the reason when a lot of once. I learned that article. You know who's got the monkey. It's one of the first things. I give the by sharing that article with people because it is all about letting them recognize helping them to recognize that they can teach people to do things that they themselves cannot do. They are our to make decisions in entrust that they will make the right decisions. I remember. i'm trying to think of the word was inspiration and inspiration and it takes on different connotations. But in this sense it was all about. What would you do about about. You be inspired do around in in so really trying to set again that that that culture where people aren't fire the act. I recognize early on that. I'm not gonna make all the is a family that i don't necessarily around right if you right and so i i definitely try to ensure we have a culture like that people have the confidence know know that else in terms of making those devices. When they make a sarah choose great choose grade can just reinforce that particularly again coming from her level. Ceo can do it every level Should so i think my last question for you. Frank is gonna be. What inspires you. So i drove this great. They have a lot of great professional development programs. And that can can't do some great international travel early on some programs. So i remember i was in switzerland. Doing this professional development program beckoned twenty ten eleven twelve timeframe ed. We had coaches as part of the program. And i remember talking to my culture and i had friends that are really asking about football and basketball. Some sport other things music. Whatever and i like all those things. I like a good game but i follow a team from day one two and so i felt really bad that i didn't have action if you will around stuff like but what we did through conversation recognize that might passionate about what we call the unleashed Potential on fashioned as about unleashing potential. And i feel like a magnet of sorts when i go into an organization is unpacking that potential. That's their right letting people know. Don't hold back that idea. Don't hold back on making that decision. Let me show you know the advice. Look the parameters fuels. You might need deficit or at central. Come up with that idea. Whatever his teaching undo some unis gilson so it's it that's what ours is really helping people succeed in the end of the day following our business. What is that. it's helping. Our business is helping our customers right. We're out of serving as an essential earth is helping our customers. Our employees are the very best that they can do coming up with the very best ideas do it's benefiting orange and so i'm all about anak potential Thank you for joining us for this episode of always bet on black. Next week we have shannon pierce vice president of growth and chief external affairs officer for south star energy services. And remember for all things you can check us out on our website. Www dot af dot org and follow us on social media. You can find us on. Facebook linked in and twitter.

connecticut jerry curl Frank reynolds United technologies national guard Mr cross paula glover united illuminating connecticu connecticut harbor Rambis hassi bernie baragan nelson young Southern connecticut southern united technologies and manufa michael jackson
516: How to Find Helpful Advisors, with Ethan Kross

Coaching for Leaders

38:01 min | 8 months ago

516: How to Find Helpful Advisors, with Ethan Kross

"When we're struggling with something our tendency is to reach out to someone who can show us empathy. That's a good start for support but it's insufficient on this episode. The science behind finding helpful advisors this is coaching for leaders episode five hundred sixteen produced by innovate learning maximizing human potential. Green steve from orange county. California this is coaching for leaders. And i'm your host dave stove. Eac leaders are born. They're made in this weekly show. Helps you discover leadership wisdom through insightful conversations. One of the pieces of advice that many of us have heard is the importance of seeking out mentors seeking out advisors seeking out those who will help us to work through tough situations both professionally and personally and that news isn't news to anyone but what may be news is that that doesn't always work the way that we want to. How can we really get useful direction and advice from advisers. That doesn't just make us feel good but also is actually going to help us move forward. Today's guest is an expert on this is going to help us to really take the next steps to benefit as much as possible from the advisers in her life. I'm so thrilled to welcome. Ethan cross to the show today. He's one of the world's leading experts on controlling the conscious mind. He's an award-winning professor. At the university of michigan's top-ranked psychology department. And it's ross. School of business where he studies. How the conversations people have with themselves impact their health performance decisions and relationships. His research has been featured in science. The new england journal of medicine and the proceedings of the national academy of sciences. He's been featured by good morning. America and pierre's morning edition the new york times. The wall street journal harvard business review and many other publications. He's the author of the new book. Chatter the voice in our head why it matters and how to harness it ethan. I'm so glad to welcome to the show. So excited to be here dave while i was reading the book and it is fascinating and i can't wait to get into this conversation with you and the story that really caught. My attention is a story that you tell about yourself where the story ends with you. Google lean the phrase bodyguards for academics. And i was wondering if you could share high moment in my in my career. I've wondered if you could if you're willing to share that story and just a bit about what led to that. Because i think that that highlights a bit of what chatters about sure so 'bout little over ten years ago my colleagues and i had published a study showing how in the brain so the experience of social pain shares some similarity with the experience of physical pain and the study got a lot of attention. I went on the evening news. It was really exciting by first time on the evening news had had a whole ten second soundbite and life was really good and then a couple of days later i i walked into my office on the university of michigan's campus and and are basically received a you know a really threatening letter in the mail. The likes of which i have never seen before. Nor do i ever aspired to receive again and it was a really serious letter. The kind that. I ended up having to go to the police station. Talk to officers and the whole nine yards and it really shook me i just my wife and i just had our first child. I felt like. I'd put everyone at risk. There was no real solution for how to deal with the letter. The advice the police officer gave me. When i went to to speak to her about it was to to make sure i don't drive home the same way to my house from work each day which dave is a little tricky because i lived at the time four blocks from from not too many permutations on that so for a couple of nights i was just i was on edge and i had reverted to protector mode and was pacing. Now's with my little league baseball bad peering out the window. You know at three in the morning at one point in the middle of the night i actually thought to myself bodyguards for academics. And and that was actually a moment that the was experiencing that thought which in my mind was just over and over and over racing with. What if this happens. What am i gonna do. What if someone comes to get us chatter which will talk a little bit about more later. I'm sure but when. I thought to myself the bodyguards for academics. So ridiculous that actually helps snapped me out of that funk and actually highlighting some interesting scientific tools that turns out. We've gone on to study. That can be useful for helping other people when they experienced chatter as well so so. Yeah i i run. A lab called the self control in emotion lab. We spend all our time studying chatter. Gets what. I can experience it at times to just like. I think most people who are listening can yeah. I appreciate you sharing that. Because i think it really shows that we all struggle with this and you speaking of family you mentioned your dad in the book. A bunch and a you right early in the book. My father's rationale was that cultivating the skill of introspection would help me through whatever challenging situations. I encountered deliberate. Self-reflection would lead to wise beneficial choices and by extension to positive emotions in other words. Going inside was the route to resilient fulfilling life. This made perfect sense. Except that as i would soon learn for many people it was completely wrong. What is it about introspection that we've got wrong. Well you know. Some people think introspection is an amazing gift. Others think it's a curse. I think it's both and i tried to explain that in chatter so our ability to divorce ourselves from the moment to let our mind wander to go back in time to think about the future and to use words as we traverse those spaces This is an amazing superpowers fireside. Concern this capacity to interest back to reflect on our lives this is the underlies our ability to problem solve to innovate and to create. It helps us control ourselves. It helps it. Helps give rise to the stories that shape who we are identities. But it's also something that can get us into trouble because sometimes we go into respect. We go inside introspects. In particular murder experiencing negatively bad things happen and rather than come up with solutions to our problems. We end up spinning instead. We worry we ruminate catastrophes which which i use the term chatter to capture. So what chatter is is it. It captures the negative cycle of thinking and feeling that takes this amazing capacity to respect and it turns it into a curse rather than a blessing and it can really undermine us in a variety of ways it can make difficult for us to focus at work and perform well. It can create friction in our social relationships. Make us more aggressive. Makes less fun to be around. And there's research showing that can also interfere with our fiscal health because it leads us to experience stressors but then keep on experiencing them over and over and over by replaying them in our minds in ways. That can exert a real wear and tear on our bodies so what people get wrong about introspection. I think if you think about it as defacto good or bad you're getting it wrong. Introspection is a tool and tools could be useful if they're using the right way. A hammer is an amazing tool right. It can helps us build homes in all sorts of other things in the hands of someone like myself. however who doesn't have a handy bone in his body hammer can be an exceptionally destructive force. And i think the same is true of introspection. And so what. I try to what i've done in my career is really trying to figure out when introspection is is going off. Course what can we do to bring it back on track. What are the science based tools exist to help us harnesses capacity to to basically live better. Lives appreciate you saying that. And that's one of the reasons. I really wanted to talk to you because the traditional thinking i think for a lot of us when we catch ourselves in those moments of gosh. I'm too much in my own brain. I'm overcome too much chatter. I'm not moving. Forward is to seek out the advice and the console of others and i think most of referred when we're struggling with something we should seek out that support a but it turns out that the the who and the why of and the how maybe even a bit is really significant in how we seek out advice from others. Isn't it absolutely. And i i you know. There's a lot of research which shows to your point. Dave that when we experience the kinds of strong negative emotions that that are characteristic of chatter. We are intensely motivated to share those feelings with others to go to other people to get their support and advice. And that makes sense because there's one truism of the of the human condition that i've come across in my research. It's that were much better at advising other people on their problems than we ourselves so it makes sense that when we ourselves are really struggling to find solutions that we go to someone else to get their input but the advice that you often hear just go talk to someone and it turns out that talking to other people isn't as simple as opening your mouth and articulating. What happened it. There's a lot more to it than that. And sometimes the conversations we have with ourselves can actually make chatter even worse in so. Let me break down how that works one. We approach others to talk about our chatter typically to needs that were trying to fulfil i. We've got we've got basic social and emotional needs. We wanna be able to find someone who can share our experience with someone who will impact engage us right. It feels really good to know that there's someone out there whether it be a colleague or a loved one who's willing to hear us out and learn about what we're feeling and so describing what happens to us that might have driven chatter response. That can be really useful for making us feel more connected to someone else. But simply venting our emotions. Which is what many people often do when they talked to others. Venting alone is not sufficient. Venting our emotions makes us feel closer more connected to the person we talked to but it doesn't do anything to actually address. The problem that is bringing us to that person in the first place. What research shows is that. If you want to address the source of the chatter. You need to do something else as well. You need to have that other person. You're talking to help broaden your perspective not just get you to talk about what you felt over and over and over again but nudge you to consider alternative ways to think about the experience. Oh so data. If you came to me with a problem you know you had this really obnoxious guest on your show who just kept talking over. You wouldn't listen to what you said. He didn't know what to do so forth. And so on. I might say something to you like david That's probably happened before right like have you managed that in the past or i might say something like that. Sounds like a pretty pretty upsetting interview but you know the good news is it's over and you've got another one schedule next week and you got hundreds of these that you do or i might say you know. I've been in that situation to in it stinks. Here's how i do it so in other words there are lots of different ways. That when i'm in the in the role of being your chatter adviser when you're coming me with for support the lots of ways that i can help break you out of this narrow way of thinking about how awful your experience was driving your chatter response that can be useful and the best kind of social exchanges between two parties. Do that they not only let you talk about what you felt what they help. Broaden your perspective some of the research that those in your field have done on this Is just really fascinating. And you write in the book in study after study it's been found talking to others about negative experiences. Doesn't help us recover. In any meaningful way. Sure sharing our motions with others makes us feel closer to and more supported by the people we open up to but the ways most of us commonly talk and listen to each other. Do little to reduce our chatter quite frequently they exasperated. And what really was interesting is some of the research that's come out around some of the shootings on college campuses and also that was done for eleven on this point specifically and wonder if you could share a bit of that with With me absolutely. I mean there have been many studies that have looked at people's tendency to express their emotions following negative experiences. Tragic events and by and large data. Don't support this idea that simply venting our feelings makes us feel better. In some cases it has no appreciable effect on our wellbeing over time but in other cases it can actually make make people feel worse and the way that works is so how could how is it possible that sharing our feelings might make it worse. Well let's think about what might happen in what we. We often call technical terms a a cool rumination session or or event session debut. Come to the problem. I ask you to tell me about it. I though that stinks. He said what you had that make you feel you. Tell me. More had sounds awful. That guy sounds like a piece of garbage. So essentially. What i'm doing is you and i are feeling really really connected to each other right. Yeah we're thinking on the same level. I i've got your back but i'm essentially just throwing logs on the flame. I'm keeping the fire burning. Because all i'm doing is getting you to rehash what happened to you and what you felt and that keeps our negative feelings alive this is where freud and aristotle and others really got it wrong. Those luminaries got many things right but The idea of catharsis as a route to feeling better has not been born out in the data. And i'm not the first to make this. Argument is argument has been made many many times over the past few decades. What's so interesting to me is that there's stubborn resistance that people display towards towards really believing it and i think the reason for that is it can often feel really good in the moment to share feelings with someone else. We feel so connected with them. But i'd remind listeners that there are lots of things that we can do that. Feel good in the moment. That aren't good for us over time drugs in the like being being one example. Now i don't mean to compare Addictive drugs venting. There are clear differences between them but the point is that sharing our motions alone is not sufficient. You do wanna share your feelings. I'm not advocating that. Anyone keep their emotions bottled up inside. What i'm suggesting. Is that when you're struggling with chatter. Find someone who you can not only share your feelings with but find someone who additionally helps you broaden your perspective. It's it's cheating both of those those goals that is really useful thinking about what you said a moment ago of a being able to have that emotional need met but also the cognitive eat man and let us move forward and you. You've used the analogy in your work of you. Want to have a captain kirk and also a spock. Who's who's there everything comes back right now. We'll look dave. I am a i am a professor. I'm not ashamed of some of the Inner nerdiness that is inside me. Yes yeah it's really it's being able to find someone who and people in your life who have elements of both of that. I think is really key and one of the other party right. Is research indicates that people who diversify their sources of support turning to different relationships for different needs benefit. the most. The most important point here is to think critically after a chatter. Provoking event occurs and reflect on. Who helped you. Who didn't this is how you build your chatter board of advisors and in the internet age how we can find unprecedented new resources online and that to me is super interesting. Because i've heard lots of ways of people doing this. Who have taken the advice of creating a board of advisors and some people even go as far and i've run into people. Who've you know they they have a blitz board of people set up even meet regularly and that's always felt a little weird to me To to do that. But i think what what you're inviting us to do is to not necessarily. Maybe it's that formal but to be thinking about. Who are the kinds of people that can help you in different situations. Yeah so i'm exceptionally deliberate. When i think about how. When i when i try to apply the science ought to my own life and and i do dave i mean everything i talk about in the book i i believe in i do implement these things myself with my family when it comes to seeking out support from from from other people. I'm really careful about. I go to to talk to for support. There are some people in my life. Who i love very much and who. I'm pretty sure love me. I don't talk to them about my chatter. I talked to him about other things. I go to people who are skilled at satisfying both of those social and cognitive. These people can provide me with support and help on my perspective and there are different people who do that dependent different people depending on the kind of chatter i'm experiencing so if it's a problem in one of my personal relationships my family you know there may be three people that i'll go to speak to at work. It's four or five other people and is very little. Overlap between those different circles there is work showing that the more people you have to go to the better when it comes to seeking out this kind of support and so i like to use the metaphor of that board of advisors. I think it's appropriate here and can be very useful when thinking about how do really structure your world to maximally. Help you navigate chatter experiences when you think about all the research you've done and your own personal experience of finding those key people those four or five like you mentioned the professional environment. What is it that you have noticed and watched for that has forgive the term filtered out. Maybe the noise out there as far as advice and really identified to you that those people will be most helpful for you. Well you ask question. Sometimes people ask me Had if you're experiencing chatter and my responses usually know it when you're when you're experiencing it because it's all consuming right and in my experience. What helps me filter out the relationships that help when it comes to chatter or from those that don't is do. I find after talking to this person. That i they actually helped me come up with clear solutions to improve the chatter to to lower the volume on that nasty inner model. That is taking over. It's often really apparent like there's some people who are especially adept at helping breaking me out of the tunnel vision that characterises. What happens when. I'm in chatter the rating and other people. Just don't and when i speak to the other people although it's nice to share my emotions like i don't feel better about the problem when i'm done and so it's really. That's the barometer for me. Like is the other person actually helping me work through the problem. It's it's noticeable. I am conscious of it when they do. And if i have a conversation with someone who is helpful. I tag that in my head and i remember it and i go back to matt person when i have other kinds of of chatter that could benefit from their from their support and advice. You know people don't put on the business cards. Excellent chatter adviser you know. Maybe maybe there one day be a rating system online. I wouldn't put it past the way. Technology is developing but there is a bit of a trial and error with respect to this issue of how to find those people who you want to be on your board. But i'll tell you once you have your board. It's it's it's really nice. Functioning ward advisors is a tremendous asset. I've got a pretty good one. When it comes to both my business and personal life and i value deeply i feel similar but i also feel like i probably haven't curated those conversations as well as i probably could and as i reflect on past situations. I don't think i've consciously it'll maybe subconsciously. Thought about it. But i don't think i've consciously thought when thinking about seeking advice from someone when i talked to this person in the past. Did they help me to move forward on this problem or in past situations. Maybe i've done that subconsciously. but i. i think that that's a really useful invitation for all of us to be thinking about and be more explicit and maybe even reflect on that her journal about that a bit because that would be. That'd be super useful to be intentional. About i think so i've certainly benefited from it. And i think that's what the science where the science points us you know. But this idea dave that you haven't necessarily been intentional about it. I think this characterizes many of the many of the ways we we try to harness our chattering daily life. A lot of people have tools that they use to manage their chatter. I think some of them are quite effective. In fact tells stories in my book about people using the using chatter fighting techniques without even being aware of it without knowing it. I think we often stumble on tools as we're living our life and we don't necessarily realize using these tools but if they work we continue to do it and tried to do in. The book is bring the science to bear to really shine a spotlight on these tools that exist like they're out there and so i think the value that the science springs is in in being able to tell us. Okay this is exactly what the tool is. And here's how it works and once we're aware of that it allows us to be much much more deliberate about how to incorporate these tools into our lives and the hope is that doing so will make us be better leaders be better partners e better parents live better lives. It's huge and one of the things i'm gonna do coming out of. This conversation is actually created document. And just to start tracking noticing when i have conversations even a step beyond you mentioned of kind of internal tagging in my head but starting to really be more deliberate about who am i reaching out to for certain kinds of problems and is that helpful most so really curious about the other side of this to a lot of folks on our listening community. Have people coming to them as advisors as mentors and a lot of us have gotten the advice. Ironically of don't give so much advice in fact we've done shows on stop giving so much advice to people right because people want to be heard they they say i want someone who's going to be empathetic with me. I don't want someone who's going to immediately jump in and try solving problems. And i'm i'm curious how do you parse that when thinking about being the advisor helping someone else. How do you walk that line. Between being someone who who's present and and shows empathy and at the same time not just getting caught in that place of potentially making it worse. Well it's a great question. And i think the first point to keep in mind is that if a person is coming to you explicitly for support. Then you want to do two things. You wanna be pathetic. Absolutely you know it to go back to the the example. It's blending captain kirk and spock. It's not being one or the other captain. Kirk being the empathy guy and op being all rational advice. You wanna let the person be heard and show that you care but then at the appropriate time once you have a pretty good lay of the territory you that's when you wanna gently start nudging them to start thinking about the broader bigger picture now. Exactly what that time point is i wish i could give you a science based recommendation have them talk for forty six seconds about what happened and then a switch into advice moat. I've i've served this literature. I've done research in space. I don't know of any data that can speak to that with that kind of precision to say. This is exactly when you transitioned into advice mode from empathy mode. Yeah this is where the artistry of being a good chatter advisor comes in. You need to be able to read the situation. We we do know. For example that in the media aftermath that of emotion being triggered people aren't always ready to to they're not always receptive to getting the perspective broaden advice. Oh you know for some people. You've gotta let them cool down a little bit before going into advice mode so there you do need to be flexible there in trying to figure out when to dive in with advice. So that's one one point is that you wanna do both of these things empathy and support on the one hand advice on the other end. You need to feel out when to make the switch but there's another really important. Take home that we get from the science. Which is this everything. That i've just talked about pertain. Situations where a person actively seeks out your support and advice can come to you for help there many situations in life both in the professional as well as personal setting where i think a a person. See someone else struggling and they think they can help. But that person hasn't come to you for help and the question is what do you do. Then jump in and give your advice or do something else. The research suggests that if people volunteer their advice. When it's not asked for that can actually backfire. It can backfire because what it does is it makes the person you're giving advice to feel insecure. It's an ego threat. They feel inadequate. So the example. I like to give. I tell this story in the book which unfortunately has repeated itself a few times in my personal life. I've got two little kids. And i'll see them struggling with something their homework and so. I'll go over exceptionally well-intentioned. Hey let me show you have to do this. You're not doing the right thing. I can help do a better. Did i ask for help. Do not think i know how to do this. You know This kind of reacted and which is coming from a place that i've i've insulted my daughter without intending to do so and so turns out that plays out across different domains. It's not just parenting kid. That happens between partners in relationships in organizations to and so in that situation where you register that someone could benefit from help. But they don't ask for it. There's a whole other category of things you can do. We call it invisible forms of support and there are ways of helping without drawing attention to the fact that you're actually helping so i'll give you a couple examples if my wife is filled with chatter. She's trying to deal with issues at work with our clients and there's kids stuff. I can do things to ease her burden right without having to ask i can. I can pick up the dry cleaning and and take care of dinner and make sure things around the house or in order like simple things but those simple things can ease her. Chatter burn apply to the work workplace. Like do things as simple as one one executive told me a story. I was interviewing her for the book. She was a consultant a high powered consulting agency andrews leading a team and they were engagement out of the office and was super stressed. She picked up coffee and some muffins without being asked it made a huge difference right because her hungry employees didn't have to worry about how to get food into their system mean that's that's one tiny example of how you can help invisibly another way you can help. Invisibly is is by trying to get advice to the people that you care about or working with. but without shining a spotlight on their own inadequacy. So let's go into the university setting you know if i see that there's a talk being given on how to optimize your performance at work without getting stressed out. I'll say to my shoes. Hey why don't we go check this out right and so we all go and listen to it. And when we're in the talk we hear things that are totally relevant to my students situation and their encoding that information and presumably benefiting from it. But i haven't it's not me saying here's exactly what you need to do. So invisible support can be another powerful tool in the chatter advisors toolbox. I love the invitation to do that. And also the distinction between is someone seeking advice from you specifically or are you just wanting to offer advice know what a wonderful way to think about perch that this is so helpful to me. Thank you and i know. It's going to be helpful to so many others. Ethan and we have just scratched the surface on so much in the book of creating. A board of advisors is one of several dozen practical steps. You have in the book so for those who really want to get a lot more perspective on how to handle the chatter. That's going on in your brain. I think this is a wonderful resource. Encourage you to check out the book. Robbie can have it linked up in this week's weekly leadership guide and the episode notes. Of course even before. I let you go one thing. That leaders and experts are always doing is. They're learning they're growing and they're also changing their minds on things sometimes as you reflect on your work over the last couple of years. What's one thing that you've changed your mind on. We really actually. You know it has to do with what we talked about today. i used to think that it in chatter. I talk about different kinds of tools that we can use to manage our inner chair harmful chatter things. People could do on their own thing ways of harnessing our relationships and the world around us i think early on in my career. I focused a lot on ways. We can solve the problem on our own by rethinking our circumstances and there's no question those there are lots of things we can do. Spend a lot of time talking about in the book but the power of our relationships has that they can have on our wellbeing on our lives on chatter. I think i underestimated that early on my career and i valued a lot more now. Both both as a scientist in terms of the science that supports how powerful those relationships could be but also just as a person living life. I really value the relationships of my my friends and loved ones and the role that they play so So i think i underestimated relationships and I don't anymore. Ethan crosses the author of chatter the voice in our head why it matters and how to harness it. Ethan thank you so much for your work. Thanks so much for having me tons of fun if he found this conversation today with ethan useful several related conversation said also recommend one of them is episode. Four thirty seven. How to know what you don't know with art markman. Art also a psychology professor. He's at the university of texas and in that episode we talked a lot about meta cognition. The awareness of what a person knows and doesn't know and some real practical things we can do to get outside of ourselves. It's a wonderful compliment to this conversation. And one many of you told me is been useful to you and thinking about. You're learning and growth episode four thirty seven to go for that. I'd also recommend episode four fifty eight the way to be more coach like with michael bungay. Stander michael's been on the show several times over the years most recently talking about his book the advice trap. And as you heard. Ethan and i talked about today the distinction between having empathy but also at the same time being useful and providing direction. And you heard him make that distinction of the importance of that being permission base and of course being coach like is very much grounded permission and a lot of perspective for michael in that conversation on how to avoid being that advice giver. When it's not going to be helpful and also winter the times that you might do that and when you do how to approach episode four fifty eight where to go for that and then also a very helpful compliment to this conversation episode. Four seventy nine leadership lies. We tell ourselves with emily leathers. Emily and i talked in detail about some of those typical lies that tend to come up in all of our minds and yet they are lies or at least minutes that we do need to work to overcome and get outside of ourselves at that and a lot of times in advisor mentor can be helpful with that and we talked about identifying some of those patterns and how we can move beyond that another episode. That many of you told me was really useful. T. a. practically on taking next steps and then finally i'd recommend a free audio course. That's inside the website for those of you. Who have your free membership set up. I have a free audio course on making the most of mentoring of course mentors are wonderful. Sources of great advice and perspective for us and in that audio course i talk about yes how to navigate some of the formal mentoring programs but actually the or audio courses much more focused on in formal mentors. And how do you reach out. And make connections with people that are necessarily part of a formal mentoring program with you either as mentor or men. T. but how do you really build relationships with people that you can learn from and also that they can learn from you all of those resources you can find on the coaching for leaders dot com website. If you do not yet have your free membership. Set up at coaching for leaders dot com. I'm inviting you to do that today. It's going to give you access to the entire library of content since two thousand eleven searchable by topic so you can really zero in on the thing. That is most important for you right now. We talked today about the importance of finding advisors that are right for you in context of what's important and that the websites really designed to provide that for you so you can search for the topic you're looking for and get access to the right conversation with the right expert immediately all that inside the free membership. In addition the audio courses. I mentioned the making the most entering audio course a moment ago there several others in there that will be useful to you plus my entire library and then you get access to the weekly leadership guide. Someone asked me recently. How do you get access to that. Weekly leadership guide. Just set up your free membership and it all happens automatically have access to everything inside the free membership plus the weekly leadership plus everything else inside. The website portal coaching for leaders dot com where to go to activate all of that white on the main page there and you'll be off and running in just a few moments next week. I am glad to welcome pat griffin to the show. He is from dale carnegie and organization. Many of you know. I know well had the privilege of working for many many years and one of the conversations that i've been having recently with a lot of leaders. How do i do a better job at writing. A job description and defining someone's role pat and i are gonna be diving and on that in detail next week on how to define a wall and the practical steps for doing join me for that conversation with pat. Have a wonderful weekend. I'll see you back next monday oil.

dave Green steve dave stove Ethan cross The new england journal of med university of michigan harvard business review national academy of sciences ethan School of business Functioning ward advisors The wall street journal orange county pierre kirk the new york times ross baseball California
Chatter & Your Inner Voice  Ethan Kross

The Retirement Wisdom Podcast

30:57 min | 4 months ago

Chatter & Your Inner Voice Ethan Kross

"You're listening to the retirement. Wisdom podcast focusing on the changing nature of retirement today and the non financial aspects of a successful retirement transition. Join host joe. Casey and learn from leading experts in the field and the stories of people who created interesting second acts as they share practical ideas and tips to create your own check out our website at retirement wisdom dot com where you can download our newsletter and other resources to learn more about how coaching can help you the best way to support this. Podcast has the head over to apple podcasts and post a rating and comment. It's easy and it's free. Join our conversation to get wiser about your retirement. Welcome to retirement wisdom podcast. We have a diverse group of people. Listen to this podcast. But there's at least one thing. We all have in common ribbon ongoing dialogue at dialogue. Explain our heads our inner voice. It's so constant and has been going on for so long that you may not take much time to give much thought but today we have an opportunity to get smarter about it. Our guest today is. He's in cross is author of the new book chatter. The voice in her head why it matters and how to harness it ethan cross. Phd is one of the world's leading experts on controlling the conscious mind in award winning professor in the university of michigan's top rank psychology department. And it's ross. School of business is the director of the emotion and self control laboratory. He has participated in policy discussion at the white house and it's been interviewed on. Cbs evening news. Good morning america. Npr's morning edition is pioneering research has been featured in the new york times the new yorker the wall street journal usa. Today the new england journal of medicine and science. He completed his b a variety of pennsylvania and his phd at columbia university and this is his first book. Even thanks so much for joining us today. Thanks for having me been looking forward to this conversation. So i could you tell us about the work you do with the emotion self control lab at the university of michigan shore. So what we do in the lab. Is we try to understand how people can align their thoughts feelings or behaviors with their goals to say that more simply we try to help people feel the way they wanna feel. Think what they wanna think and behave the way they want to behave. We do research on those questions for two reasons both to advance our understanding of how self control works but also to help people as they live their lives. Because i think the ability to control ourselves is fundamental to living a happy life and so we really straddle both of those two different basic and applied areas of work. Father's day is right around the corner. And i noticed in your book that you wrote a little bit about your dad and what did you learn about introspection from your dad. My dad really focused from the time. I was really young kid on the value of interest action on the idea that for most of the koerbels life throws at us. We typically have the answers for how to deal with them already inside inside us and the key is to figuring out how to tap into that knowledge. My dad's lessons to serve me. Meanwhile throughout my life. But i've realized once. I started studying. Psychology formerly is at sometimes. The path to tap into that knowledge can be a little tricky and can lead us astray and and i've devoted much of my professional career towards understanding why that is why does going inside and intersecting sometimes help us but sometimes really really hurt us leading us to worry ruminate catastrophes and so forth. So i've spent a lot of time trying to figure out why that happens and more importantly when it happens. I've been trying to figure out what the tools that exist to help. People harnessed the terrorist action rather than to fall victim to those negative potential negative consequences of it so we have a lot of relationships in our lives but we have this ongoing relationship to a south through our invoice in invoices in cures. What are some of the statue of uncovered in your research about the self talk. We engage in. Well we spend a lot of time not living in the moment so you know. We often hear the importance of being in the moment in modern times. The truth is we did not evolve to be focused in the moment. We have this amazing ability to travel through time to think about the past and the future a lot of those moments that we spend in the future in the past. We find ourselves talking to ourselves where we're using language to make sense of things that happen to us or to try to figure out how we should act in a certain way in the future you know so we do spend a significant amount time in this this world of words in our head and sometimes those conversations we have with our shelves could be the source of a lot of joy. When you're savoring you're going over. What happened like a positive experience. That might have happened to you or your imagining. What an accolade you might receive in the future. You're hearing yourself win this award but we also spent a lot of time talking to ourselves in ways that can be really disparaging and make us feel upset. And that really captures this conundrum of self talk. We have this voice that on the one hand can be this great source of wisdom and self confidence and a wonderful coach but on the other hand we also have this inner voice that could turn into a really harsh critic that makes life pretty awful so this negative self talk you mentioned. How does it impact people. I think of negative self talk in in particular. I wanna make a dry distinction between negative self talk and chatter and i wanna make a distinction. Between after the following reasons sometimes you say negative things star selves at which can cause us to feel bad in another self. That's not i would argue. Not a problem. It's not a problem because negative emotions in small doses are actually quite adaptive. It's useful when i screw up. And i say something bad someone else at work and i feel a little bit of guilt and remorse about doing that. Replay that conversation of my stirrup in my head. That's giving the information that i can learn from that's a learnable moment so maybe i figure out. Well i said this. I probably shouldn't say it again. And that impacts my future behavior so negative emotions are functionally evolved. The capacity to experience negative emotions for a reason when negative emotions become harmful when me start stewing a negatively and. That's what chatters about chatters with me get stuck in a negative thought right. We keep on going over the same problem in our head turning it upside down from every different direction. Why did this happen. What am i gonna do. Oh my god yada yada yada. That's really harmful. And when i mean really harmful back to your question chatter. I think is one of the big problems we face. As a species it can consume our attention in ways that make it very difficult to think and perform well at work. The world health organization recently put a price tag on on anxiety depression for the global economy. We know chatter fuel so states over trillion dollars to huge amount of money to huge cost to the economy that chatter is impart causing. We also chatter can undermine our relationships because when we're consumed with a problem we're not necessarily being a good partner to others around us. We're not listening to what they say. Were dominating the attack the conversation with our own problems so can cause friction in our relationships and then finally we know. That chatter can impact people's physical house because what chatter does is. It takes a stress reaction which in and of itself just like negative motion isn't harmful. We often hear that stress kills. That's not entirely true. It's really useful for us to be able to experience stress response whether we're in the presence of threat stress response quickly mobilizes resources in our body to respond to this situation head so either fight or flee what makes a stress reaction toxic is when we have a stress reaction and then it persists over time right to the stress goes up and it stays up and that's exactly what shattered does because a negative experience occurs and then you're constantly reactivating it and perpetuating it in your mind by rehearsing it over and over again. So that's that's how you get data. Predicting things like problems of of cardiovascular disease inflammation and a host of other unpleasant physical states that that aren't fun to experience talk about so if we talk about what the negative experiences of chatter. Are you know. we're talking about many of the domains that i think make life worth. Living are believed to thinking perform well are believed to have rape flourishing social relationships and our ability to have good health. You mentioned that. We have these two parts of this. Some picturing angel and devil above my shoulder as i think about this but there's both an inner critic and then there's an inner coach how each one of those work. And how do you control one tap fully into the other. Well quite simply. The coach is much more. Supportive and the critic is more disparaging and more talking about like the inner critic. What really makes that. Inner critic toxic is is not just experiencing a fleeting self critical thought. I screwed up again. That in and of itself is not going to be particularly harmful to next up streaming inner monologue. That just plays on an endless loop in terms of how you flip from one direction to the next critic to coach there are lots of tools that exist and one theme of my book chatter and my research is that although we're often looking for single tools at work for us across all situations in fact what we're learning is that there are lots of tools out there and different combinations of tools work for different people in different situations and so i think a key challenge we. All face is to figure out. What are the unique tools at work for us. Now let me share with you. one tool. That happens to work really well for me. When it comes to this coach versus critic and that's something called distance self talk at involves when i find myself slipping into inner critic mode trying to coach myself a situation like i would give advice to a good fred and actually using my own name to help me do that if you think about when we use names like we typically usually think about referred to other people what we learn from this research on distance. Talk when you ask a person to use their own named coach associated problem so already thin how you're going to manage a situation that essentially thrusts them into this coaching mode. It gets them to start advising themselves like they would give advice to someone else they care about. And what's really fascinating. Is i think a lot of us when we when we're in this inner critic be safe things to ourselves that we never ever ever say to someone else out there in the world let alone. Good fred right. We say ugly things to ourselves and so the idea here. Is that when you switch your perspective when you get you. Put yourself in this frame of mind where. Hey i'm gonna tell myself what i would tell a friend that really changes the inner dialogue in ways that could be quite useful. So what do you find helpful in terms of as you mentioned that endless loop the rumination putting the brakes on. What would you say are the best ways people can stop that runaway train so there are lots of tools exist for helping us manage chatter and i like to organize them into three buckets of things. You can do in your own. Their ways of harnessing your relationships with other people and then they're environmental tools ways of interacting with the stacy's around you that can very interestingly impact how we talk to ourselves so let me give you a couple examples and i'll do so by focusing on the tools that i personally use. These are all science bay strategies. Different people have their favorites. And that's true of me as well. So one tool. All use is distant self-talk. We already talked about that. The moment i detect myself experiencing chatter. I'll start trying to give myself advice. I would give to one of my best buddies. I'll also do something called temporal distancing or mental time travel. If i'm dealing with an acute stressor so take like the covid pandemic. i'll think about how you feel about the pandemic six months from now when we've reached higher levels vaccination when i'm traveling again when my kids are back at camp for school in what jumping into that mental time travel machine does. It's so useful is it makes it clear that what i'm experiencing right now as awful as it is being stuck at home my kids having trouble at school and so forth and so on although since are terrible but guess what they're going to end its temporary because transport myself into the future. I think about this alternative life where things are different much. Better and and recognizing that what i'm going through his temporary that gives me hope we know that hope can be really beneficial when people are extremist chatter. So i'll gauge mental time travel now also a harness. Some of my relationships with other people will talk to folks in my life way. No are particularly adept at helping me work through my chatter and not everyone else when not everyone on close to is actually good at that in my book i talk about what makes a Another person a good chatter adviser and they really to features to have good conversations. That help others work through their chatter. The one thing you wanna do you wanna find a person who who does let you express your motions for certain degree. It's good to be able to share what you're going through with another individual. Who's there take the time to empathize with few invalidate. Your experience but ideally. That's not all that happens in the conversation because if all you do is express your emotions you feel really good about your relationship with the person you're talking to because hey it's great to know someone is out there. That's willing to take the time to listen but if all you do is just rehash what you're feeling that doesn't help you reframe the way reframe what you're go through waste ultimately naked feel less worse. So ideally the person. You're talking to also helps broaden your perspective at a certain point in the conversation they nudge. You think differently about what you're going through in that help you feel better and so there are a couple of people in my life. Where really good at doing this. And i'll consult them. When i'm dealing with chatter and it often helps the final thing i'll do is. I'll take a walk in green space in my neighborhood. I'll find a safe park or a walk around the streets around my home and let my attention drifts. Onto the natural beauty one of the things we've learned over the years that nature green space exposure can be really effective. Means of helping people manage chatter. Because what it does is. It helps replenish our attention. When we're consumed with chatter all we can think about. Is the problems dealing with and we only have so much attention that we can devote to fix any. Give them high. So all your attention on your chatter. A whole lot over two things and what nature does is it. Gently intrigues us. Draws our attention away from our problems onto the beautiful landscapes around us in ways. That could be really restorative so those are four different tools are all many of them are very different. But that's my unique chatter fighting cocktail if you will non alcoholic and really does help it. It nips the chatter in the bud. The moment it's activated. But one thing i think is important for listeners to know one i intimated towards this before different people are going to have different combinations of tools and and that's why i think the most important thing we scientists can do is share the tools with others so that they can begin to try to sort out. Hey what are the tools that work best for me and that was really interesting to hear you talk about. What makes a good chatter adviser and in particular not just giving the space but also helping helping less reframe and get a different perspective on things. How about the flip side. We have this relationship with our inner voice. What about when we bring other relationships in conversation. And i know you've written about venting in the some of the dangerous. What should we know about when to keep those inner conversations in her. Well i think just knowing that bending can have some negative consequences is really important. Because that's not a message that our culture tends to spread in fact many people think that the way to feel better about or is that only know is at venting as i said before it can make people. If you don't do too much it can make you feel good that you have a relationship there that someone's willing to listen that the data inventing of linked with lots of negative consequences for one. After people dead they tend to leave those conversations being just as upset as when they started. Because all they've done is rehash the negativities. We also know that if you vent over and over to your friends and loved ones it can have the paradoxical effect pushing other people away because relationships really thrive on reciprocity and ideally in a social exchange. You give a little. And then i give a little. There's this kind of almost this linguistic dance that we engage in. Were each sharing information back and forth. If you're dominating the conversation with venting over and over and over again that can often push other people away. So i think being aware of the fact that they can have. Those negative consequences can be useful for helping improve people's relationships now just to be clear. I'm not advocating in. The science doesn't advocate. Not talking about your moshe ease important to to share what you go through in small doses. The key is that's not the only thing you wanna do. You wanna share the emotions of someone else but then hopefully transition into kind of conversation while you're thinking about the bigger picture to hopefully allow you to work through the problem appreciate that you mentioned the pandemic before and on imagining that the pandemic has been peak chatter. What have you learned personally. And in the lab about chatter through the pandemic that wasn't clear before while the pandemic has been described in previous conversations. As as the chatter of end of the century pandemic has been characterized. it's an uncontrollable event. Uncontrollable event had trouble pronouncing that word That fills us with absurd. And we know that people love certainty and they love to be able to throw. Thanks and when you take those away from people it can really fuel chatter and and we've seen rates at exiling. Depression with cheddar factors prominently into a really skyrocketed during the pandemic three times the rate that they normally are last. I checked so it's a huge problem. We've actually been doing research we've been looking at. What are the tools that people are using to manage their chatter during the pandemic. And are they helping people and what we've found across a series of studies is is largely supportive of what i call when i talk about in my book is a toolbox approach coping value toolbox approach and the idea here is as i mentioned earlier in this conversation. What you really want to do is equipped people with a toolbox of skills that they can use to manage their chatter. What we find in our research is that each day. People don't use a single tool to manage during zaidi. They use multiple tools three to five tools. Let's say and what we find. Is that people who use the healthiest combinations of tools tools that both that scientists and experts rate as having a firm scientific foundation for helping people things like mental time travel and nature exposure talking to other people in support of ways people who use the healthiest combinations of tools in our study experienced a thirty something percent reduction in daily anxiety compared to people who use the unhealthiest combinations of tools and by unhealthy tools. I'm talking about things like alcohol or venting or trying to suppress your feelings. So we've on. The one hand learned that these tools can make a difference and number two that using combinations of tools seems to be where all the action is. Many of our listeners are planning for retirement than they have hopes and aspirations and dreams for this next phase of life but as you mentioned certainty. There's a lot of that. There's a lot of anxiety stress in often. Fear people confide in me. How can people think about the right combination for them of the tools. You're mentioning the might be useful in that transition or at any transition. I think the first thing to recognize is look life. It'd be great if we had stolen certainty but that's not how life works and i think just recognizing that life is filled with uncertainty like. You're so many things that we take for granted but but they're not certain outcomes right like you know you could walk across the street and get hit by a car of certainty that you won't actually a ton of uncertainty. Life is actually filled with uncertainty. And i think recognizing that fact he'd be really liberating right because once you recognize that there are certain things that are just going to be outside of your control. The hope is that you then stop trying to control them as much as you are right because impossible task right if you cannot control an come in you keep trying to do it. What good is gonna come from. That's i think having that recognition can be powerful and the number two in terms of which tools work best for people with my book ends. And i think that's where the fun challenge begins the challenge. I mean readers with is i give them the tools and then now you've got to figure out through a process of self experimentation which the combinations of tools our best for you. We're all unique. We all have our own psychological fingerprint if you will and out the combinations of tools that match our own unique composition. I think this is a very personal question. And it's something that sciences is beginning to look at so where we're beginning to look at this in the lab has can we figure out what the exact precise combination of tools. Are that work for this person as compared to that. But there's no reason why people have to wait for the outcomes of that research. They could start trying these tools themselves. And if you use a tour that helps keep using it if you use a tour and you find. That doesn't help. Stop using it. It's really that simple. I just wanted to add that the tools you're mentioning in the book. It's a list of. I think if i counted correctly. Twenty six of them in they're divided into three sections. As you mentioned some. You can do by yourself some with others and some that relate to your environment and it's very valuable. The whole book is great but the toolkit is really very useful impractical. I talked about a number of the tools already but the one in that list. that might be counterintuitive. That not draw people's attention that you'd recommend that. Take a look at a distance. Self-talk is counterintuitive. The idea that using your name to coach yourself your problem is going to be beneficial so try using that one do. It's silently though. You don't want to walk around the streets of your local city talking to yourself with your name out loud. That violates social convention. You wanna do this internally or if you wanna do it do it while you're alone in the house or let your partner know why you're going to be doing this. To distance talk is one. I think counter intuitive tool another tool engage in ritual. I talk about the value that rituals can provide to us. Rituals are rigid structured sets of behaviors that are infused with meeting in their science. Which shows they can help alleviate chatter organiz your space. Some people find this to others. Dome but organizing our surroundings can provide us with a sense of control that we often lack on experiencing chatter. It's another easy thing to do. And then finally i guess. I just be mindful of the fact that venting can have real consequential negative implications so be wary about just finding people to have that session with because unlike censored venting has not proven to be particularly useful and one last question. If i might. Is there anything you're working on your lab that you could share that you're really excited about. This is always such a hard question because we have so many projects they're like like it's like choosing between different children. One study i'm really excited about. Is something called. Recall the toolbox project. And what we've done is we've worked with teachers from across the country to develop a curriculum that teaches high school kids about the science of how to control their emotions and their chatter. And what we wanna do what we will be doing. Next year is teaching thousands of students in georgia exposing them to this curriculum and then looking to see not only are they able to learn this information. The context of school. We think that we take it for granted that they will be able to learn the information. Then what we really want to look. At what implication does knowing about what chatter is and how to control it about what you're negative emotions are how you control the what implications having that information have for the students health their relationships their performance and so forth are idea that working hypothesis is that if you give kids these tools than experience occasions in life where they're elephant then they should use those tools in as at help them just like teaching high school students had a computer percentage can come in handy when they go to a restaurant in half to computer tip. The idea is teaching a person how to manage. Their chatter might be really useful when they find themselves experiencing chatterbox debilitating later on in life. So this is a big big study that has been in the works for a long time. It was supposed to happen last year. Hope gotten away really interested to see what happens when we run it next year while we look forward to following your work and really appreciate you taking time to share your insights and wisdom on chatter. Thanks so much for having me really. Did the conversation pretty across spending time with us today and a lot of great insights in practical ideas that we can all use. I'd like to share my four takeaways. And hopefully they'll be helpful to you in concert with your own takeaways first. One that came to mind for me is how wise it is for us to pay more attention to the center chatter this ongoing in her monologue that we have and learn how to manage it so we make the inner coach more accessible to us which made a great source of wisdom were big fans obviously of wisdom on this podcast and then we can really meet the inner critic to what is saying that's valuable but also be able to ignore the noise secondly pay particular attention to two things that are important signals a when we find ourselves nationalists loops of negative thought and be sharing those negative thoughts in the form of venting. He mentioned it's in small doses. But that's about it third. We can all learn how to be good chatter advisors for others and that means empathizing listening carefully and helping other people reframe their thoughts and in fourth their tools we can learn and their combinations. Those tools that are particularly rate for us. He mentioned several today distance. Self talk time travel my personal favourite thinking back to future connected with nature which is good in many ways us as we know but also see point out shifts. Our attention takes away from that chatter and the also talked about ritual which the book he talks about having greater meaning in contrast habits and routines but the key is really defined that combination unlocked. That combination really works for you by experimenting. You find twenty six different tools that he describes in the book and i highly recommend the book. It's chatter the voice in our head why it matters and how to harness it by ethan cross. Thank you for listening. The retirement wisdom podcast. Our mission is to help people retire smarter by helping them to plan for the nonfinancial side over tyrant. Not just the financial side in my work. I cover a lot of people for whom retiring seems like an end but then they discover this really the beginning of their next chapters. But where do you start our coaching process with a certified designing your life coach helps you chart a new life out on your terms. Build a road map to your future and one that's driven by what matters most you can start here with us to return wisdom. You can design your new life. Thank you for joining us today on the retirement wisdom. Podcast you can listen to all episodes of our podcast by subscribing to them on apple. Podcasts google podcasts. Spotify stitcher or on our website at retirement wisdom dot com.

ethan cross the new yorker the wall street university of michigan anxiety depression cardiovascular disease inflamm fred right america new england journal of medicin School of business columbia university Npr Casey Cbs the new york times world health organization ross white house pennsylvania joe apple
Spending big to expand governments role in new tech

Marketplace Morning Report with David Brancaccio

08:33 min | 4 months ago

Spending big to expand governments role in new tech

"This marketplace podcast is supported by out systems. The application platform that enables every company to innovate through software out. Systems accelerates the development of business critical cloud applications build the difference without systems for more information visit out systems dot com slash action. Hey everyone. I'm marie mcrae's hosted the marketplace podcast. This is uncomfortable. It is a show about life and how money messes with it and this season. We're digging into one very specific feeling that nagging suspicion that in some way or another pro kinda getting scammed from a decade-long quest to unravel an identity fees to the get rich quick ler of multi level marketing skis. We get into how our society seems to be built in a way that can often leave many of us feeling cheated. You can check out. The new season of this is uncomfortable to get your podcast of seed. Money for new tech could soon poor from washington. I'm david brancaccio have you. You've been hearing. The main infrastructure talks between the white house and senate republicans have collapsed. But as that was happening. The senate held a very bipartisan. Vote on something else that'll shape the country's future spending big to expand the government's role in new technologies. This is largely with china in mind. Marketplace's nova sappho has details on that. David this senate. Bill would spend two hundred fifty billion dollars over five years on research and development of various technologies here in the us including an emerging fields such as artificial intelligence. There's also money for a host of other things notably for more domestic computer chip manufacturing along with telecommunications equipment production and that has to do with next generation five g networks. There's also some money for the specific types of chips. Automakers need and we know the reason why carmakers have had to cut back on production because they can't get enough chips. There's a shortage now. The senate passed this bill. Sixty eight to thirty two so many on the same page for once. Yeah indeed and make no mistake why. This is about countering china. There is broad bipartisan agreement. On that front. Here's republican senator. Roger wicker of mississippi just before the vote. Yesterday this is an opportunity for the united states to strike a blow on behalf of answering the unfair competition that we are seeing from communist china. And it's an opportunity to have a game changer. In terms of geographic diversity in our research efforts and now that the senate has voted david. The measure moves over to the house. There are some differences between the two chambers. And what they want to do so they'll have to work that out all right now. Thank you and analysis a fortune. Five hundred companies by deloitte and the alliance for board diversity finds that white women have made some gains but overall changes quote painfully. Slow as marketplace's meghan mccarthy carino reports one challenger sitting directors who tend not to leave board members generally stick around for about a decade yoga. Chang a business professor at the university of virginia. I mean it's very uncommon for someone to be pushed off of aboard. Most companies do have mandatory retirement ages for directors but the age of mandatory retirement has crept up often above seventy five because the rules that govern the board are usually enforced by the board would be tough. I would imagine for a fellow director to vote against keeping somebody there. They wanted to continue survey one reason they might wanna stay. Average compensation of more than three hundred thousand a year according to consulting firm spencer stewart but companies face increasing pressure to be more responsive to cultural change says peter gleason head of the national association of corporate directors. It's good for aboard to refresh itself. It's good to have a mix of tenure before he says board's usually have the option of simply adding seats to increase diversity. But they rarely do. I'm megan mccarthy carino for marketplace and the investigative news organization propublica. Got a hold of what it says is raw. Irs data from the wealthiest taxpayers in america and finds the word taxpayer may be a misnomer. Some top billionaires reportedly paid little or no taxes in some recent tax years benefiting from legal tax avoidance strategies. They can afford this among the top twenty five richest. Jeff bezos of amazon michael bloomberg the entrepreneur and former new york city mayor tesla's elon. Musk financier and philanthropist in berkshires. warren buffett critics of america's tax system of long complained it benefits people with assets in penalizes people whose money comes from wage labour president biden secretary of the treasury. Janet yellen has said an across the board extra tax on the wealthiest would be hard to put into practice. The irs is investigating. How propublica got its data. This marketplace podcast is supported by personal capital. Who can help you take control of your finances no matter where you are. Download the personal capital app or start today at personal capital dot com to get free professional grade financial tools including a retirement. Planner and fi analyzer. Want to talk. Personal capital has registered advisers by phone or online for qualified users personal capital. There's no place like financial confidence. Good the future of the museum be in the form of drive thru in an example of pandemic adaptability. Listen to what they're doing with dinosaurs. In north carolina colville charcoal of w unc reports as part of our back to business series. Imagine exhibitions had life-size robot dinosaurs in zoos and museums across the country. When everything shut down but no one to go see or hear them then came an idea. What about a drive through dino safari within months a production team put together a slick audio tour and app and a website to guide people from the comfort and safety of their cars. Are you ready to begin your adventure. In japan imagine exhibition started the drive through late last year and is now running the tour in three cities across the country. Tom zoeller is the company's president. So the dinosaurs. We had to redo all of our sign edge. We'd by the way. I never thought i'd own traffic cones. I now own ten thousand of them. Imagine has employed stagehands and other entertainment professionals who've been out of work for months ticket costs vary by vehicle size. Or uv costs about sixty dollars and zoeller says the business has been profitable still. He's not sure if it will keep it going. All pandemic restrictions are lifted. It's definitely pandemic driven right. That's why we're here why we did it or crazy enough to try it but maybe from this there'll be some new form of entertainment. That's a little that's new and different and you don't have to get your car who knows drive through exhibits a tough business. Bet says erik gordon with the ross school of business at the university of michigan but they do offer convenience. Think of all of the advantages. Yet don't have to pushing overloaded stroller. You don't have to drag a little guy with short legs to keep up with a big sister with long legs who you keep telling the slowdown and he says drive thru options may be a good bet for a lot of businesses moving forward in durham. I'm cold el charro for marketplace. We'll stuck on the ten thousand traffic cones there brancaccio marketplace morning report from. Apm american public media molly would host of marketplace tech a show that helps you understand the digital economy. How will more of the country get access to better internet. What new jobs will artificial intelligence create or destroy and what tools will help us. Survive are already changing climate. We tell the stories behind the technology in our lives and every weekday. Our podcast brings you insight. You won't hear on the radio checkout marketplace tech. Wherever you get your podcasts.

senate marie mcrae david brancaccio Roger wicker china alliance for board diversity meghan mccarthy carino america spencer stewart peter gleason national association of corpor propublica megan mccarthy carino Janet yellen irs Personal capital white house deloitte university of virginia
All You Have to Do is Ask with Dr. Wayne Baker

The Remarkable Leadership Podcast

31:01 min | 1 year ago

All You Have to Do is Ask with Dr. Wayne Baker

"There's power in asking questions. All you've got to do is ask. That's what we're talking about today on. The remarkable leadership podcast. Let's go lack onto the remarkable leadership. Podcast we're here each week. To help you lead more confidently and make a bigger difference both professionally and personally. This episode is sponsored by Kevin's free weekly newsletter. Unleashing your remarkable potential which is full of articles and resources to help you become a more confident and successful leader. Sign up by going to remarkable PODCASTS DOT com forward slash newsletter and. Now here's your host Kevin. Hey everybody welcome to another episode of the remarkable leadership podcast that we're recording on April the first but we're not fooling when you're listening to it but I know that it's April the first today and my guest. Today is Dr Wayne Baker. Let me tell you a little about Wayne is the author of a brand new book. Titled All you have to do is ask. And he is the Robert. So may professor of Business Administration and a professor of Management Organizations at the University of Michigan Ross. School of business is also professor of side of sociology at the University of Michigan and faculty associate or the Institute for Social Research. This means he's busy and he's smart. Everybody he currently serves as faculty director for the center of Organizations and prior to joining Michigan. The Michigan Faculty he was on the faculty at the University. Chicago's business school his PhD in sociology from northwestern and was a post doc research fellow at Harvard with his wife and son and cat in Ann Arbor Michigan. So we have that in common because I grew up in Michigan and he lives in Michigan. He's our guest. Today is name. Is Wayne Baker? Thank you Sir. Rather have you here. Thanks Kevin Nice to be. Here is a pleasure to have you so. I'm guessing that you don't wake up one day at age. Six and say I'm going to be a university professor. I'm GONNA have sociology degrees. Hd and all that stuff like so how do you how would you briefly? Tell us about your journey from how you got to where you are now. What you said is so true even when I was in college I didn't know what it was. I knew a college professors were but I literally did not know what a PhD was. And when I finished my undergraduate in finance of all things. I decided that I didn't want to be a banker and I said okay. Well what's a hundred and eighty degrees from finance and I heard about this thing called sociology? So I said well I'll give that a try so I joined a a Master's program in sociology kind of fell in love the subject. Then I figured out what a peach was in apply to northwestern and even then it was thinking about being a professor. I was a management consultant out east for number of years and after that. I decided that I wanted to be a professor so I'm glad that you did figure out what was before he decided to get one. Because it's an awful lot of work if you didn't have that you've written this great book and this is like the second time we've tried to do this. Have this conversation and I'm so glad that we're having it. The book is called. How excuse me all you have to do is ask in? The subtitle is how to mask master. The most important skill for success awesome subtitle. So what's the what's the basic premise? I've got a bunch of things I wanna ask you `bout about asking But what's the basic premise of the book was devoted a lot of my career teaching and research to figuring out. How do you improve cooperation? Collaboration among people especially in in organizations. How do you get people to be generous? How do you create a workplace culture of generosity and always thought that the barrier to generosity was getting people to help or to give but what I found out is that that was rarely? The case is that most people are willing to be helpful in generous but most people don't ask for what they need is like you know everyone could be in a position where they WANNA give. But you don't know what the give unless someone has communicated to you what they actually need. Some we created this activity Cheryl Baker. Number of years ago called the reciprocity ring twenty one years ago in fact and I started. Is it actively where you give and get help to start the activity? The same way was a little lecture about generosity in the healthfulness but I found. That wasn't the problem. It was getting people to ask so. That was actually one of the things I want to talk about later was the reciprocity ring. So since you brought it up. Let's just talk about it right now. So what is it really and sort of? How does it work? I had heard about it before I read the book but I'm super fascinated by it and I think it has all sorts of applications for us in business which clearly does mark to us about what it is and how it works. It exists in two versions a face to face committee that we call the reciprocity ringing. I'll describe that process in a moment we've also created a digital version called. Give it to us. So give a toss as a combination of giving and Civitas which is Latin for community. So kind replicates the reciprocity ring process but on a grand scale and you do it through your computer your iphone your IPAD or whatever but they both work on the increments is that you need to get people to ask. And it's the asked. When the request drives the giving and receiving process so with the reciprocity ring usually do it in groups of twenty to twenty four When we have larger groups we did it with a group of nine hundred at the same time we just the vitamin the smaller groups and have lots of facilitators who helped run the activity. There's a poster a bunch of products and materials that go with it and it's going to sound super simple but there's a particular recipe for doing this and make it work. What is that you need to talk to people about? What's what what are the criteria of an of an effective requests and give people some time to think about that? No other goals are they trying to achieve. What's a resource they might need and then how they can formulate that as a request that's part of it And what we've learned is that everyone makes a request. You announce a to your group and then at this okay. Everyone pause. Think about how you can help. You could help in one of two ways. You've got the answer the resource and you can share it with a person or you can tap your network as someone you tap your external connections and make an introduction and the person get helps that way but what we found. What was really important is that you don't learn until later in the process. Who was going to help you. So a request is made people think about who they could help and how and they write it down but they don't reveal it it goes to the next person next person next person it's all. The requests have been announced. And then you play. Connect the dots. Which is you connect the offers to the requests and what people find is really amazing is that they find that most of the time the people they help are not the people that received help from. Its this more indirect kind of generosity that we call a generalized. Reciprocity you help me. Kevin and I'm grateful I paid for to help a third person who pays it for up to fourth person. Eventually all comes back to us well and the other thing that I'm sure is true. Is that people. Don't so tell me. People are sometimes surprised by who was able to help them like. I would never even thought to ask that person is. I wouldn't think they had any way they can help me. And that's no disrespect. Even to the other person has would never cross my mind fair. Oh absolutely that happens all the time you know when I do this activity or many of the other activities. That are right about the book. Usually someone takes me aside and they say you know. I'm not I'M NOT GONNA ask for what I need because no one here can help me and I. My answer is always the same thing which is that. You never know what people know our who they know until you ask. And it's rare that people don't get a lot of help on the requested they make. It's such a cool thing. I mean it's just such a cool thing and I I love it so much and so that's one of the reasons I wanted to have you on So you open the book with what you call the law of giving and receiving and I. It's so core. Clearly you open book with it but it's so core to to everything that we're GonNa talk about today that I think it's useful that you take a minute to talk about an an an as everyone is listening. I want you to be thinking about how how it applies for you as a leader how to fight for you as a team member and how it applies in your organization so talk to us about the law of giving him a law of giving and receiving covers the two sides of the Cycle. So you can think about the law of giving and giving us a virtue we. WanNa be helpful. We want to give to those in need. We WanNA be generous. But that's half of it. People also need to be willing to receive and the only way you're going to receive is by asking for what you actually need so I realize over time the law is just not the law giving but it's the law of giving and receiving because those are two sides to come together and remember. It's the request that's the driver or the catalyst of that giving receiving a cycle. What I think is that we all have a responsibility to do both in talk in the book about different types the type that we want to be an individual as a team or even an entire organization is the give request her the person who's generous the team that's generous but also you make requests and you ask for what you need. You talk about several types. There's a really cool little Assessment that you can take in the book or on your in your on your online site which ought will let people find out about the second year. You said a minute ago. That people will come in and say. I'm not going to ask because no one here can help. I'm paraphrasing. What are the other reasons why we humans? Don't ask this other reasons. That's one of the big ones. Another big one is that we worry that others will think that were incompetent weak ignorant. Don't know how to do our jobs. And so we're not going to reveal a weakness by asking a follow that one just a second everybody because as leaders because of our position. This happens a lot. I can't ask questions. I'm supposed to have the answers. I don't WanNa look like I'm weak and if we'RE NOT GONNA ask our team isn't going to ask either and we create this really bad downward cycle okay. So I just needed a hopping on that for a second. So they're more reasons. Go ahead. Yeah so it's interesting this thinking about it from a leadership perspective I just published an article in which I say that the leader should be the sea age. S the chief help seeker in an organization at the person needs that need about it so you can't expect other people to ask To make themselves vulnerable. If you're not going to do it yourself Some leaders have what I call the Sage Syndrome. Which is that. I'm the fond of wisdom and knowledge. And help and just come to me and I will help you exactly and I'm on the mountain and it's going to be a long journey to get here and when you get here. I will give you the answers. That's right and that is that the leader has requests has needs as well you know and it's important to be a role model of the behavior that you want. I often tell leaders. Who are. Maybe they don't WanNa be that. But they feel the pressure that they're supposed to have all the answers. I always ask them. So do you want to have a Boston? No like no. So why are you trying to be one right? Why are you trying to be that person that you don't want to be so they're a bunch of reasons why we don't ask and there's reasons we don't ask all sorts of things one of the things that you and? I agree on drive out in. The book is the idea of psychological safety in organizational. Setting the the We need to think about whether people feel psychologically safe especially in this case as it comes to relating s relates to asking question. Run talk a little bit more about that. Assert so Lack of psychological safety could be one of those organizational or cultural barriers in a team or an organization so psychological safety was defined. I by Amy Edmonson from Harvard Business School. She says a team were psychologically. Safe as a team where it's safe for interpersonal risk? Taking so he can ask a question. you can question your boss. You can admit a mistake and you could ask for help when you need it now. The tools that I write about in the book were very well in a psychologically safe environment. What I found is that in a psychologically unsafe environment if you start using the tools bit by bit it'll make it a safer place and so it almost doesn't matter where you jump in you know. Is that use the tools become safer when it becomes safer? The tools become even more effective so I want to say a little bit more about that and that is you know. Wayne everyone who's listening. We don't I mean we. I know that most everyone who's listening either. A leader or aspires to lead. But we don't know what people are In that in their own leadership journey where they are in the organization and I know even relatively high level leaders that I coach or that work with that will say well. You know. It's organizational culture thing. There's an organizational culture and there's a team culture and as a leader if you're a frontline leader brand new leader doesn't matter you can create a culture in your sphere and I think this whole idea of psychological. Safety is one of those areas that we can begin to create and the tools that we talk about in. The book are some of the ways to do that. And if you don't have the culture that you want around psychological safety work to build it a little bit of time going to happen overnight but you can build it and you can have it be a place for wanting people aren't GonNa want to leave because they really do feel safe and they are able to flourish and be successful. Yeah so in other models for culture change and I write about this a little bit in the book. One model is that we want to focus on changing the culture to change people's behaviors but the more effective way. Is that all you need to do? Is Change People's behaviors and then they will update their attitudes and beliefs in the cultural change. So I call it the behavior first principle so these tools that I write about you start using the tools which is a recipe for certain behaviors. People don't have to believe it's going to work. I always tell people this religion up to believe anything here. Just do it. Follow the steps experiment for a period of time and what happens is that people's experience becomes the evidence. They need to update their belief. And they'll say like I've had people do the executives do the reciprocity ring and they'll say oh. I don't believe this isn't GonNa work. I'll say well you just do it. We just follow. The steps is okay. I'll do that. They follow the steps and at the end. Come up and say oh now I get it now. I believe but it was behavior. I so I would say focused on the behaviors You know youth tools that change behaviors. And then your cultural change trust the process. Trust the process. So you know you and I before we before I hit record we were talking about the fact that unable to I twenty twenty. We're living in a world that's were it. Pervasive is the talk of the Corona Virus Cove. Nineteen whatever you want to say and so right now you and I were talking about the student right now. Everyone's working remotely way more than before. I just literally an hour ago was doing a Webinar. Where forty four percent of the people on that Webinar. I've been leading remotely for less than a month So my question for you is as a sociologist right How how do these ideas that you're talking about? How the ideas of psychological safety relates to a remote work setting or just. What thoughts do you have For folks who are leading in a remote setting working in remote setting any thoughts at all about what? We're talking about or anything else around remote that you'd like to talk yes I just finished up a short article about how to make meaningful connections in virtual session virtual meeting a it's ten guidelines in it's based on I've had a lot of experience already. I've had to teach classes. Virtually now staff meetings. Virtually Committee meetings virtually Church Youth Council meeting I've been at virtual lunches even had on Friday. We started a virtual happy hour with group of friends. And I've done a lot these and some of them people really connected in some people don't and I started thinking about. What are the guidelines for this and so It'll it's going to be published in psychology today sometime this week The the length jangle leg because that means before this is out in the world. We'll have it will make sure that everyone is listening. Can Yeah I'll send that I won't go through all ten but what I mentioned one or two It seems like the ones that work. The best are the ones of which there is some sort of active facilitation That someone is the MC someone is you know has might be doing with a light hand not a heavy hand but kind of leading people through a particular process Like if it's a round of introductions to make sure everyone introduces themselves could be as simple as that And the ones that have worked very well is that there isn't an MC no active facilitation and Kevin. There's Edinburgh one time we Roy. Kinda stare each other on the screen using Zoom Raleigh's little pictures like the Brady Bunch But no one knew what to say or do you know because no one was leading through the process of one other a mention and I'll definitely send us link to you is that I strongly encourage people to have the video on. Yes in fifty percent. Make the Webcam your friend. Everybody what you can't have a meaningful connection or create what's called a human moment unless you could see people and I think it's either then some. I was on a town hall meeting where and was hundred people and it was. I would say seventy five percent of the people had their video. I had my not week later. We had another one. I'd say fewer than half had their video on and I'm sure we hit a tipping point that when we have the next one very few people have their video one and the thing is that there should be an expectation is that we have the video on so it's guidelines like that some very practical things that are necessary and with all the incredible work you've done on remote leadership in your book on remote leadership and I know you think I'm probably speaking to the to the choir here when I tell you these things but Maybe there's one or two tidbits you'd find helpful. Well all of them are going to be helpful to those of US finding ourselves in that situation so it's really really really great so I have felt throughout this conversation that I'm talking to the Master Question Asker and I'm trying to ask questions so I'm GonNa. So here's the here's the other question. I've been wanting one nasty net is this. How can we all be better? Askar's so I think so. Asking questions is a big part of it. But there's more is asking for the kind of help that we need. It could be that. There's information that we need our data financial resources a referral and opportunity brainstorming session. Expert advice or whatever so it's asking questions as a part of it but it's also asking for the resources that you need so there's a four step process go through this quickly How we can better at making these requests. I wanted to pause and think about the goal. What are you trying to achieve? What are you trying to accomplish? I found a lot of times people jumping to make a request and they get a resource that they actually don't need haven't thought through what they're trying to accomplish. So what's the goal? What are you trying to do okay? Given that goal next part is okay. Well what resources do you need to help you achieve that goal or at least make progress on achieving the goal and maybe it's information ideas some other kind of resource and opportunity connection whatever and then the third party say okay? You've got the goal. He got the resource. You need. You haven't asked anyone yet. 'cause you're thinking this through the third part is to formulate a request using what? I call smart criteria. This is different from smart goals. So the SS for specific specific request triggers. People's memories of what they know and who they do. A general request won't do that the M. now this is different from the M for smart goals 'em for smuggles is measurable of which is Great. But here it's meaningful. It's the why of the request people also assume if you're making a request the Y. Is known but that's rarely the case you need to explain why you're making the requests what's important wise it meaningful. The A is for action. You're asking for something to be done. the are is for strategically realistic. So I encourage people to make author requests for small things for big things for stretch things. But it's gotta be it's gotTa be within the realm of possibility and then the Ti- is time we'd have to have a deadline got the goal. Got The research you need. You can formulate as a smart request and only then. Do you make the request so one of the things that and I'm taking even though I read the book. One of the things that struck me Just now as you were saying is that I do that in reverse as a coach and so I want you all to think of how you can use those ideas or yourself as a request that you can use those ideas to help other people be Westerners but I ask those questions to help people get clear themselves about what they're trying to accomplish why they're trying to accomplish it. In what resources do they need? Sometimes what resources do they need from me as their coach perhaps? Or what resources do they need from their organization or whatever but it's a great framework and I really appreciate you sharing. It was so I have something that we do here. Wayne that we call the fast break right and the fast break is Three ideas I'm going. You do not know what they are clearly but everyone else now knows that you don't know and I'm just going to share these ideas. Nasty to share whatever comes to your mind related to them that you WANNA share in a short time. Okay so not necessarily word answer but brief your first thoughts about these ideas dot the fast break in the fast break is brought to assault today by our remarkable retreat. Someday we're going to be retreating again. Everybody and when we do you can come with us for two and a half days to really take your leadership to the next level we talk about the mindset. The skill set in the habit said it takes to become a truly remarkable leader. You learn more by going to remarkable PODCASTS DOT com slash retreat so. I have three words. Are you ready? The first one is coaching the second. One you just said this. Word Mitigation Strategy Thoughtfulness and the third one is attitude attitude positive It's K awesome. Thank you for doing that. And thank you for playing along so now. I'm curious when you're not writing articles writing books. Teaching classes virtually tending all virtual media just diagnose about what do you do for fun? Well I live surrounded by the Great Lakes and for fun is to go sailing with my family on the Great Lakes That's Not doing that now literally. Yes Oh we're home here. My wife and our eighteen year old son. Who's GonNa Finish Highschool here at home? The college freshmen in the fall at Indiana University. So very close to where you are given you had to bring it. You knew you knew that I've been. I've been waiting to bring this up because I know you're doing. I don't know I'm going to have a hoosier in my family. It's a fine business school. That's as far as I'll go and you know and you know and now is about to know my daughter is is they are. She'll be three years ahead of your son so it's a fine university but as I told my daughter. I never going to reform sports. So so. That's that's that's fine. It's interesting it's always to me find out what people do you know when they're not working and I think all find that balance and find what those things are. So what are you reading these days while I guess as a as a college professor is should name something that's really intellectual. Bowman. I'm reading. This is science fiction and aggregate science fiction since I was a teenager and my older brother turned me onto it. He'd read a book and give it to me And so everyone has a I call it a literary device maybe it's You know maybe it's a murder mysteries. Who knows what for me. It's science fiction some reading the old man's war series by John's scowls. And it's this way out there. Science fiction world is like six or seven different novels a series. I'm in number six right now. The old man's war series will have the link that everybody in the show notes. You go find out more. They're so now the question when you've been really wanting me to ask as work people find out more about this book in about your work in. I mentioned a website a minute ago. Where can people get access to you and connected the thanks for asking US so? We created a website for the book. That has lots of Free Resources on it. So you mentioned there's an assessment in the book and also that assessment is available free online. If you take it online you also get a report really nice report. That will compare your results with our population of assessment takers We create learning map that encourage people to download and to widely distribute. It leads people through this process as as a learning map. Our podcast. That's going to be up there too when it's Once it's released and we'll be pushing that out but I guess I should tell everyone the url. How do you actually find? I was getting ready. You can't just tease it. Y You gotTa tell us I know. I'm yeah okay so so it's it's super clever. It's the title of the Book Dot Com. So it's all you have to do is ask dot com. All you have to do is ask DOT COM and it should be easy for people to remember. All you gotTa do is ask. Excuse me all you have to do is ask dot com. So when thank you for being here? It was such a pleasure. I've been looking forward to this end. it was great and I appreciate your time today very much. Well thank you very much. I appreciate the opportunity and it's been delightful talking view So before we go everybody I have to question for you now. What we're actually going to take your. There was fifteen things at least by my count that you could take action on from the last thirty minutes. So what are you going to do i? Are you going to go to the website and get some more information? Are you going to think about how you can become the chief? Help ask a secret. Are you going to focus on how you can change the culture in your organization in one or more areas? Think about what you WanNa do what you can take from this and go act on because until you act really not all admirable right so so wayne thanks again for being here. It was a real pleasure to have you and everybody. I hope that you will be. This is your first time. We found it useful. And if you've been here for a while you've heard me say this before but man we'd love to have you join us on either. Are linked in page or our facebook page. Were putting other content out where we're giving you the chance to interact with us. Were asking questions. And lots more remarkable podcasts dot com slash baseball remarkable remarkable podcasts dot com slash linked. In is where you can do those things. Hope you'll join us there and help you come back next week. We have another great episode of the remarkable leadership podcast.

Dr Wayne Baker Kevin Nice professor DOT COM Michigan US Chicago University of Michigan Cheryl Baker Harvard Institute for Social Research faculty director Great Lakes professor of Business Administ University of Michigan Ross School of business Boston center of Organizations
active CEO Podcast #144 Bo Brabo White House Leadership Values

active CEO Podcast

1:03:14 hr | 10 months ago

active CEO Podcast #144 Bo Brabo White House Leadership Values

"Cultures and outcome. It's a result of what is it. A result of came up with the simple formula that that behaviors plus time multiplied by everybody in your organization. That's going to be your culture so how we all go to work everyday and behave You add all that up with everybody coming to work. There's your culture that can either be purposeful or it can be whatever unintended whatever you know and then suffer the consequences of of that So so when you're thinking about values if you if you don't have core values in your company we should consider them and then how would you do that. Well think to yourself this goes led by the ceo. What is it that you believe how. How do you behave every day and are and and how would you define those behaviors. Helping the and pizzas latest. Discover the energy to perform exceptional brilliance and positively impact. The lives of those around them being by world leaders. Game changing influences and next level. Gary's these these the active see our podcast where the ordinary dark along. And now you'll highest see r. And founder of energy to perform international speaker and ladyship performance coach craig on this episode of the active. See your podcast. I speak with the former presidential communications officer for president. George w bush and president barack obama who served with the us army in iraq is an executive leadership coach and the author of the book from the battlefield to the white house to the boardroom. His education includes an associate of science in aviation business administration from embry riddle or aeronautical university. A bachelor of science in business administration from strayer university and an mba. From the university of michigan he has how director roles in asia with the us saami white house communications agency some mentions commuter technologies advanta health and national spine and pain centers as an entrepreneur. Here's founder bravo. Wist inc hail media group ltd and the bar and look poker shy. I'm honored and privileged to introduced to you a consummate professional who is known for a servant and pragmatic leadership is an inspirational keynote speaker. And believes valley's drive results barbara bo. Welcome to the shy craig. It is fantastic to be here. I appreciate the invitation. An opportunity you welcome. It's have on the show and you've got a wealth of experience behind you know. I love the work that you're doing there in the us. I think we live. Start out for you. And what fueled your fire in the belly as a child. Yeah lifestyle started out for me when i attended What we called. Career day when i was in high school seventeen years old. I was in eleventh grade and we had all of these professionals come to our school to talk about what they did like here. Are your opportunities all you young minds. Hero your opportunities and the types of fields that you can go into an study. The most the most popular session of the day was the was the. Us army recruiter. That person or that group had think hundreds of kids in there listening to what they had to pitch so of course. I was one of those kids that went to that session and it wasn't shortly wasn't shortly thereafter where i found myself in a one on one meeting with with the army recruiter And this was the this. Is the army national guard. So it's the the state state of michigan The guard force serve one weekend a month two weeks in the summer and so forth. it's a component of of the regular army and everything that they were telling me was just sending lightbulbs off in my head that this was something that i wanted to do. I was intrigued. Sounded interesting fascinating. So i i raised my right hand and i enlisted in the army. National guard now was only seventeen so my parents had to consent I went to basic training Right after my junior year of high school so in the summertime and that that was a pivotal moment for me craig in that. That's summer under Well lots of things happened that summer but you get all hundreds of hundreds of men coming from around the country all all races all backgrounds you name it and then put under the charge of these three joe drill sergeants. Who were mean. They knew how to break you down all of you and build you back up as a soldier but in reality what i really learned and i feel blessed to have learned. That at a young age was disciplined. I learned i learned what it what it meant to get up every day at three o'clock in the morning and you know get started with physical fitness and and how to work together in teams and really how to follow. I wasn't a leader. I had no idea what leadership was. So i i learned how to follow. We were at the direction and influence of those drill. Sergeants they leading us so we all learned how how to follow which When i look back on that and i study leadership and i talk about leadership i think you you have to be a good follower. Know what that is. So you can even demonstrate empathy for the people that you're leading and what they think about following you as the leader now so that that's the pivotal moment for me. That's that's that's where it all began Seventeen years old boot camp. The united states army very good at and then it's a great perspective there as well because people think you need to learn leadership but i love their approach of you need to learn to be a follower. I see you understand what is required when you are actually become a leader. I think that's fantastic. Yeah no you think about being able to follow but part of followership is listening. You have to listen to commands and people giving you in that scenario people giving you orders but in reality. There's times you know even when you're learning how to shoot weapons Where they're keeping you safe and being able number one being able to listen and understand who the commands are coming from. Who's in charge. And and following their lead. I think was very very important. I think it's an important aspect of leadership. So yeah so i think i think i got lucky really an early age to learn that so in in twenty twenty has been really interesting year. Where win win covered hit and crisis sort of took over the world in many many different ways. We can really see that people look to be led. Yes and so you know we. We've gone through this last few years where it's all about clever of leadership cleverly ship and which is which is good needed at certain times but win sure win. Things are when things uncertain. That's when people look for someone to lead them I agree with that completely. It's crisis right so this time around everybody's in crisis every companies in crisis every company's trying to figure out what to do next They don't they don't necessarily have the playbook in place that says this is how we how respond to crisis so leaders and people are absolutely looking for that person. That's going to take charge and guide them. And i think that is. That's a component of crisis leadership which you could probably do or maybe vardi done a single episodes just on leading during crisis But that you're absolutely right. That's what people wanted. That's what they're looking for. And it's in those times. Where where i think the great leaders step up. Step up to the challenge and you know the title of the podcast active ceo. Sometimes it's not the ceo that that's founded could be a someone else in the organization that says i take charge of this and i can lead this effort correct. Yeah it's totally true. So you're in the union asami. Seventeen year old. You've being lit at that time as he developed through the. What was starting to kind of shine through you as something. That really resonated with you and you know i wanna grassless and learn it and be someone who is a leader in this spice. Sure i think from the very beginning. The us army has this amazing. I think it's amazing. Professional development formal education internal to the organization itself taught by leaders in the organization that are at at the levels above you. And they're coming back and now they're teaching teaching the underlings. If you will and one of the very very very first things that i was being taught. Now i'm being taught from from a leadership perspective but i had witnessed it as a follower if you will Was really how to take care of people taking care of the people that you lead in what that really meant and and you know back in the day old school if you will know smartphones. So it's it's really. It's almost like carrying a binder around where you had all the information on every single person that you are responsible for. You knew everything about him. You knew where. They grew up where their hometown was who their names of their parents You knew who their their brothers and sisters were with. Their birthdays were if they graduated from high school. Are they taking courses to go to college. I mean you just knew so much about them so that you could support them in every way and also you. Would you would start learning how to identify when someone's having a bad day in what might be impacting that that day you know where they late for work. Why were they like for work. Did they get a call from his mom or dad sick. You know sub anything along those lines really started to resonate with I think one of the most fascinating components of leadership is super critical. Is to really show your people that you care about them. So it's always a discussion today. In twenty twenty is how do how do you do that. How do you show. How do you show your team members that you really really really care about them. And you have their best interests at heart. You know you're taking. You're taking the heat when things go wrong. You're giving credit to the team when things go right those types of things. And and how do you do that. And how do you really. How do you really drive. Build a high high performing team I think a lot of it starts with how how how much depth you give to caring about your team. And that's what. I was learning at the very very beginning. My leadership development. I think we would talk about care right. So if people feel like they cared for then loyalty stars to kick in and then you build trust which is fishy when you're in a life or death situation or you're in a crisis situation inside an organization you need that loyalty and trust so it all comes back to here. Yeah i think it does which is very good so you moving on a little bit here. So you became director of human resource services and you're managing teams in germany in iraq full of the us. Army you what will you greatest achievements in this role awhile. That's the fan tastic question. I think i think the greatest achievement in that particular role was taking my team and we had a large team we supported. So we're we're overseas so we're supporting a community of about sixteen thousand americans all living overseas in a foreign country so we're taking were responsible for in that environment all of the immigration and visa processing and so forth. Not just for the servicemember but for their spouse and their children and so forth and so we're supporting in about sixteen and organization. Let's say sixteen thousand people. I had i had an hr team That i was responsible for of about eighty people so now they're all direct reports but eighty total in about ten direct reports out of that and then to pick up that operation. So so you're doing it in germany. It's a safe place you know it's like shoot. It's just like being in the united states. Almost on the year got a foreign language to deal with but then to pick that up and now it's time to go to iraq to combat but to pick that operation up and move it to iraq and still perform exactly what you're supposed to perform for all of the service members and soldiers who are overseas or are in combat was a significant lift a significant effort. Because then then you're talking about leading and there's no better. There's no better description of crisis than being in combat and that's everyday thing and there's not necessarily a solution from an individual day to day operation Except for get through the day take care of your people lead them the best you can and be and try to be as safe as you can't because it's truly life and death possibilities and that's the kind of risk that you deal with and you know that it's there but you still have to operate you still have to do your best to accomplish the mission so i think getting through that time and being at my best every day and eighteen nineteen hours a day seven days a week. was a was a super accomplishment for me fascinating fascinating time when i look back and really study. Try to think about and analyze that time period and all the things that we did as an organization and with our teams in that environment was was quite incredible. How long were you working in that role. We you're got people in the combat zone and you work in those sort of cnn. Eighteen ninety nine hours a day. So i was in iraq for six months. I was in the role total for three years in germany. I was in iraq for six months. And then i i. I went back a little bit early from the rest of my team to start setting up the whole reintegration process. Four when everybody's coming back and then it's like you're you have to go through that like now make the analogy and i actually taught a course on this For reintegrating your teams after covid right so when offices start to bring people back into the office. You're coming out of a crisis. How do you do that. How do you reintegrate people back into what you would want to say. Maybe as normal or back to the normal way or could be the new normal. So so now you're reintegrating. All of these soldiers tens over ten thousand of them back with their families but yet they've had this experience that their families can't really Relate to so there's a lot that goes with reintegrating Reintegrating people after. You've been through a crisis. So that's when. I went back to back to lead that effort for my organization Which still included. Because there's so much to do. It was still seven days a week long long days in prepping for everybody to come back to germany so not a short time. That's for sure. And from that time where you're reintegrating you'll team back into the usa and somewhat normal live what what was so key lessons you from that that. Ceo's leaders can integrate into businesses as they return to back to back to the office again. Sort of covid. yeah. I think that Just like you mentioned earlier that you know during a crisis or during covid people are looking for that one person to come to take charge Just because especially in the early stages It seems to be over. Or you're getting back to normal. I think i think for a timeframe whether it's three months six months or even a year that that leader cannot really take their foot off the gas. Because they're gonna they're gonna now transition people know that they trust them. People have been following them. And now they're in this next phase post post crisis if you will and they just can't they can't disappear. They gotta they gotta still keep their keep their leadership attributes strong and in charge and and be the source of information and guidance communication and how the company organizations moving back into this post post crisis environment super important that the leader keeps a hold of keeps a hold of the team. So that things don't get out of control which which can happen. Let goes who that's over. You know you could end up right back into from a company perspective of not really getting back on track or back on a path beyond a path that you want to be on to be profitable and successful and have a great culture and so forth working some incredibly long hours and i'm sure the stress levels a really high. You're lacking in sleep. So how did you trying to manage yourself during that time to ensure that you could turn up in your game every day. That you mean to alertness. Was there that you wouldn't showing signs of fatigue for your team. Yeah before the show. We were talking to help you mentioned health and wellness so even during even during the rough times and when you're in crisis you we did it while we were in iraq in a combat zone. We still worked out. We still did pushups situps. We would run when we could run and so forth did as much partner assisted exercising. Because you know keeping the body physically fit is a is a good way to to keep your mental. Get your mental game on track But it's but it's just a way to get through those long days you know so. So fitness is super super important fitness and exercise and. I'm not saying. Go be a bodybuilder. That that's what you have to do but being fit and be an active on a daily basis Promotes your physical health which can in turn promotes your mental health. And then you add the right type of Hydration and nutrition diet It's important really. I think those are the most important things to get through the continuous long days. You have to take time. And i would. I recommend a lot of people do do it in the morning you get up early do it first thing so it's out of the way and you're not worrying about it really kind of set you up for your day but you gotta do it. Don't don't let it don't let it slip or slide away and i'm sure a lot of people listening have worn a nice Trade three from their office to the kitchen during this time. So it's so important to put things in the fridge or in your kitchen. That are actually healthy. Because the last thing you want is when you're tired you kinda gross sometimes for those sugary drinks or weights and things. That probably yes. We'll give you a short term but long term and not so good for you. Yeah i agree with that completely. And i think that's a great. That's a great comment about when i talk to people and they ask you know. Well how do you do it or how you know if you say well get up early. Okay well how did you get up early or eat healthy. How do you eat healthy. Well you have to prep the battlefield if you will right so if you got to get up early okay and you're not used to that while don't use your phone get an old school. Wind up. alarm clock said it across the room. So you have to jump out of bed you know but then make sure right next to the alarm. Clock is a glass of water. So you drink a glass of water and start hydrating yourself right away. So it's prepping you're right. I think it's great. It's great analogy. You prep the space So that you make it through the day and then at the end of the day prep space mixture. it's For the next day. That's super good. Does in and obviously you discipline and the army might discipline was was being sumerian and being an athlete from very very young age and it just becomes normal practice now. I don't need alarms to wake up at four. Thirty or five reminding away. I'm the exact same alarm clock. I'm between usually between four. Am and five am. And as long as i'm up in that timeframe i have exact. I'm able to execute my day the way that i want to Yeah lots of great similarities between elite athletes. And and what you've learned through that process as there are with with elite soldiers or soldiers in general and what they learn along the way as when it comes to commitment and discipline and and so forth because to be really really really good That's what it takes. And certainly does. And i just just kind of on a side note to been doing With with my business partner. We're doing some work with the qantas airlines recently. And you talk about redeployment you talk about being in the indefensible being an athlete or parlor. What's happened right now for near. The athletes and the pilots is sorry foreign to them because now they're in the whole life and they routines that they used to a totally disrupted you think of a pilot whose maybe harm two days. A week is the risk tom. They flying so they life is out of a suitcase and thirty thousand feet up in the anti thing. It's hard to different but now they stuck in this new place. What do i do now. How does this work. How do i get round your what. I'm so used to general challenge. Oh i can imagine that. It's a challenge for them. We had a great. We had one of our guests on our on our show. And you think about I thought she came up with her counterparts. We're dealing this exact thing and they are actors and actresses on some top. Us tv shows and we had this. We had one of them on our podcast and you know they. They postponed all of their postponed. All of their filming right so now. She's sitting at home all day and she used to go to. You know to keep their skills relevant just because they have work and they're on a popular tv show They still go to acting classes and so forth and get continue to get better and better and better at their craft. Well those are cancelled. So there's no more imprison classes so they just got creative and they her and a bunch of her Counterparts they do zoom sessions like this with each other. Let one person lead okay. We're we're going to study this week. And and they kept. That took a minute. They didn't figure that out right away but but it but in time they figured out a solution that could help themselves stay relevant and oh by the way help them feel like they're still working in the industry They're part of yeah. You gotta find those creative solutions and engage with to help you get there. I think the. I think the one industry that must be it must be sorry foreign right now is someone. Who's like eh top musician band. That your plan front of twenty thirty thousand people to now trying to do that on zoom where you dr have the emotions and immediate feedback that you do already so weird. It's got to be incredibly weird it was. It was april april or may. When i did. I've done. I've done speaking in the past but it's always been in person. You know. Keynote speaking leading workshops or whatever the case might be at conferences and you name it fireside chats great. 'cause you're in person you're just having this really engaged discussion but you're in person and then i did this. I did this webinar for a company out of texas. And even though i knew that there there were fifty to one hundred people in attendance to the webinar. I couldn't see any of them I there was a moderator. Who did the introduction. And then i gave this presentation and i basically talk to the camera for an hour and i had no idea who i was talking to. There was no fourth engagement and tell you that was tough. It was. I enjoyed it but was it as rewarding of an experience as being in person with one hundred people know. You didn't have any of the banter you didn't have any of the back and forth the the the real engagement and so i can only imagine from a professional musician whose used to that raw excitement of thirty thousand fans screaming while they're playing. Yeah it's great that you're you know you're on zoom and people are listening that's absent has has to be absent. It'd be tough. Let's move on here and you've had some incredible opportunities in new and your life following working in the us army. you know. i want to know what it's like to lead a team behind the voice of the nation. Yeah it was. It was the highlight of my highlight of my professional life for sure. Have the opportunity to to lead communication teams for president bush and president obama so huge responsibility and and even as the leader of those teams. I had my own duties to perform. So i couldn't i couldn't just you know you had to have it. Goes back to trust. You know you're building the trust and confidence and taking care of people because you had. You had people on your team that you had to trust. Get their job done as well or what you had to accomplish in a six day timeframe just wasn't would not get accomplished so We would go out in advance of the president Going to speak somewhere Anywhere in the world and it was in the united states. We were out a week prior to whatever event that he was going to attend and speak at so you. You've got six and a half days if you will to receive all your equipment and get it all set up and you're performing Secure non secure voice. Communications audiovisual information technology from it perspective. Just as if the president and his staff were sitting in the white house. So you're delivering the same capability. Only you're doing it on the road and and you walk into a city and none of that exists and you have to get it all set up and i think the The the benefit that i receive from that and through that experience and i did that. For eight years was Was the aspect of performing leading those teams. And what we used to call a zero defect environment and that You know the president's going to arrive president's going to speak you don't get to do a rehearsal with the president before the steps up to the microphone. It's it's it's go time hundred percent go. You have to be ready and you have to have that stuff also up Prior to his arrival. So there's a lot of Gosh it's checklist after checklist. it's daily checklist. This is everything that you have to accomplish on this on every single day leading up to what we call game day and the president's arrival and then following the departure. There's still things that you have to get done. And i try to always encourage people In in building systems. So it's not just having goals but it's building systems that you can execute against or lead your people within in order to hit your milestones or achieve the objectives or exceed your objectives Moving forward so in that environment You know you get you. Get the call that you're going to lead a team in. Oh by the way. You didn't get the same team every time. So i might go to iowa. I might have a vet with in washington. Dc or go to utah. I don't always have the same team members on those on those events. So you have to trust in your fellow leaders that they too are building. Their teams are building the people. Because everybody's coming together to execute execute this event and you're in charge so working hand in hand with secret service from the security perspective and the white house staff leading the overall event and then of course all the people on the ground. I was an exhilarating experience for me. And it's kind of everything kind of tried to bottle all it up as much as i can and leadership development that i do today brilliant and you talked about weekly is about to say you know. It's it's like being a professional sports team in a way. But then you start talking about okay now. Well we've got a whole lot of subs coming in. And changing with time. So that throws a whole new dimension into what you do we with the times when you got real short notices. Well bang this this. Obviously because imagine you know these things happening around the world that in an instance you need to the president needs to stand up and deliver a speech. Yeah yeah so. We had at rapid response teams for sure absolutely so it's grabbing so it's modifying think about when you have to respond to something and then rapid format. It doesn't mean that you throw you. Don't throw everything out the window that you're used to doing. You just have a modified a modified plan of attack in order to respond to that so yeah so when there's a crisis somewhere in the country and the president says hey tomorrow i wanna go there right. There's a team on standby ready to do that. And they already know this. This is the modified game plan We'll still deliver what we have to deliver but maybe certain things get adjusted and so forth So so yeah so you have to be. You have to be ready. And that's all about planning in advance so companies today you've been through everybody has been through this guy instill in it really the cove nineteen pandemic right. So are you planning. are you learning. Are you doing after action reviews. Are you learning from what has happened in what you've had to do. Over the past eight months to survive and thrive and are you creating that playbook for the next time that it comes so the pre planning now so that you can respond accordingly the next time. Yeah which is an and obviously you talked about their spending eight years with both president bush and obama you for you in your interactions with know what stood out as the greatest difference and working with two successful prisons. Yeah they had very different personalities. And i think those came out even on tv but even behind the scenes they came out which was which was fantastic to be part of my role this is. This is why. I drive so hard on values based leadership and i write about this in my book. It's like how do you how how this group of employees if you will transition from one polarizing administration to another polarizing administration that are very different but yet you have to keep performing the same mission because you're supporting the office of the president not just the individual or you're not supporting their politics but there's an office here the head of the country that has to get there's things that have to get done and there's a mission that has to be accomplished regardless of who's in that seat so so the differences between the two You seen them every day. President bush was very from what witnesses like. He was very stiff. If you will suit and tie all the time not too laid back or didn't demonstrate being laid back you know in front of in front of the team's president obama smile on his face all the time very charismatic charisma that he showed on. Tv is the same charisma. I saw behind the scenes. I don't think that you were seeing. I wasn't seeing a different person than the public saw and very engaging so different personalities Both very very smart every time you heard them speak even enclosed events where the press was not allowed but we were inside the event Recording the the event and so forth we're supposed to be doing So so you definitely saw very intelligent individuals that are in these positions. Like wow these people really. You know what they're able to talk about and have and demonstrate expertise and enroll thought thought leadership if you will for based upon their beliefs and so forth was pretty profound from from my perspective looking from the outside in the you saw the use of power and influence being in different ways. So you see more. Bush would start with power like lead with power but in the influence account from behind whereas obama was more influencing with the power sitting in the back in. Yeah asia yeah two different approaches for sure which was which was really kind of cool to see from the from behind the scenes If you will play out in front of your in front of your is only being backstage instead of out in front of the stage It was it was a one of those lifetime once in a lifetime type of opportunities that i had and you talk about the presidential quality What does that yeah. That's a great question. Because everybody used to ask everybody would say what is presidential quality and mara executive directors our organization. They would always say well. Let me tell you what it isn't. I don't know that. I can put and they would say the same thing. I don't know if i can put a finger on. What presidential quality is. But i can tell you what presidential quality is not. You know so things like you know a teleprompter glass falling while the falling off its stand while the president is in the middle of giving their speech. That's not presidential quality and that happened that unfortunately has happened a couple times. And it's embarrassing to the president. So excuse me anything that could bring embarrassment or discredit to the president. Himself or to the office of the presidency would be not presidential quality so not being ready for not being ready for your event would not be presidential quality. You know skipping. Something on the checklist not presidential quality. Not doing your your your communication checks you know not checking out all the communications inside the limousine and doing them the right way. And you know following the the checklist you know. Cross your t.'s. Dot your i's make sure you've you've done absolutely everything that you know. That's presidential quality making sure you're doing it not doing. It would could be detrimental cause some type of catastrophe potential. Yeah so since obama. We've seen quite a change in the way that us. I has been led and promising one of the most fascinating presidential elections periods of all time record. What can lead is learn from the way that political leaders are able to influence persuade immobilizing followers. Yeah i think. I think when you look at when you when you look at any of the whether it's president trump today president obama before him and president bush I think you have to pay particular attention to To how they're influencing their their followers and so forth and and try to take it. Take whatever lessons you can learn from that some will be good some. You may want to emulate others. You may not and try to separate the propaganda from from the actual influence from a leadership perspective. It's not easy. it's not easy for me. i even even now looking. You know as a spectator from the outside and no longer on the inside great question. Great question because it's not easy from that world definitely definitely. I mean from a fire. It's been for those into reality. Tv it it's this. Last presidential election has been a lot of people have been really absorbed into. How was this planet. Why is this playing out this way. This is of different account. Believe this is happening. So it's it. Has i familiar. I don't tend to follow much of this type of thing. But i saw only people gravitated to it so there was obviously something around. That was really attractive to people. Yeah i think. I think you know what i've what i've witnessed here and i don't think many different than anybody else and it's something that that we try. Our podcast craig. That one of the things we're trying to do is get people of different opinions like completely different opinions to be to be to be on the show to talk about why they believe a certain way or delve into their opinion without saying my opinions. This because i don't like the other guy or i don't like the other opinion right and and we get a lot of that here from from the national stage as people not being able to describe what they like or what. They what they support. What the things are. They supportive their their candidate. Or they're who they want to be the leader of the country but you get a lot of what they don't like about the other person that that at some point you know i would think has to change. You gotta be able to defend your position debate it. I would like to see more of that going forward. I totally agree you. We've talked about the you border up briefly around after action review and we see so many people in the world who spends so much time moratti. Norway's spent a lotta time executing sums been quite a bit of time pre planning but very few actually do the review which to me and listening to what you've been signed today is the real crucial part in defense. It is right. That's where all the learnings happening that we sit up for the next opportunity to execute effectively for you. What are the crucial ingredients of the after action review that people need to be aware of inside implementing the very first ingredient is to put it in the phase that you just mentioned in the planning so you have to plan for it in the beginning before you execute so that the team knows that you're going to do like it's not over until we've gone until we've conducted the after action review at the end. Whatever that is maybe a company's launching a new product right. So you're planning your planning for this product launch and then the product launches and then what all in the planning stage you need to have planned for a full evaluation of the entire product launch from from the planning stage all the way through the execution stage and getting it into distribution the initial marketing and so forth. And then you have to sit your teams down and and in you know in a in a concise format because you plan for it. People know it's coming they. You would have put out guidance in the beginning to keep track of to keep track of what's happening whether that's just through meeting notes project notes. Whatever the case might be keeping good minutes along the way a good records along the way and everybody involved everybody involved in the event. We'll just call it an event or has to be invited to the after action review with full transparency that they can discuss their piece of the pie in an open environment without judgment right. And you're focusing on your focusing on in this event. What went wrong from your perspective from your perspective. What went right. What what did you do well and then you start talking about what you could have done differently or what you need to do differently. That for the next event right. And then you gotta have all of that captured in some type of documentation video. Whatever it is used on the day of the the actor action review so that you can you can plug that into your strategy planning the next time around so that you don't repeat the same number one you build upon what you did really well so you continue to do that better and better and you focus and then you focus on not doing the things where you made. Maybe bad mistakes Along the way so that you can correct. Correct them and take corrective action in the future But you're right. If you don't do that. I think you're you're destined to to to repeat Things that things that you've always done in the past and may not get the raise the you may get the same results but maybe you're not getting better results right. Revenue growth profit growth market. You increase your market share. Whatever the case might be If you want to go after those things you've got to put the right things in place to ensure that you're always improving constant and never ending. Improvement is so crucial in your book from the battlefield to the white house to the border. You focus on executing with precision. Can you share a little bit around. What the book is about and what the intention is for. Yeah absolutely so. The book. Battlefield to the white house to the boardroom. The title defines my journey if you my personal journey and but infused in there so in writing stories about my journey i really focused on on values on values and values what it means for values based leadership and i use my stories and then i'll i'll tell the story and i'll give an example of like the values that were demonstrated in that story from either myself or leaders that were over me and leading me. If you will and the things that i saw that they were doing really well that embodied the values of the organization. And and what. I what i did on the front end was come up with a formula that that defines culture. Because i'm like. I'm not writing a book about culture. There's all kinds of books on culture and there's a lot of people who speak on it. But i'm like let's define in my opinion in a formula what culture is so. I went to the dictionary. And i'm like okay for culture is an outcome. It's a result of what is it a result of so i came up with a simple formula that behaviors plus time multiplied by everybody in your organization. That's going to be your culture so how we all go to work everyday and behave You add all that up with everybody coming to work. There's your culture that can either be purposeful or it can be whatever unintended. Whatever the you know and then suffer the consequences of of that so so when you're thinking about values if you if you don't have core values in your company we should consider them and then how would you do that while think to yourself in this goes led by the ceo. What is it that you believe how how you behave every day. And how would you define those behaviors right and those start to form core values if you want other people's input. I put some examples in the book. Somehow twos and how you can actually engage your teams your employees to get their input on building core values. And you and i drive it all the way home craig where once you have established core values in your company. And what all the behaviors. Are you literally you literally disseminate that in your preaching that across your entire company so if you know the behaviors that are associated with certain type of position that you're looking for okay. Then who's ever recruiting for those positions needs to know. The types of behaviors are looking for create questions of your candidates and people interviewing for jobs that would elicit answers associated with those types of behaviors. So you're not taking a one-size-fits-all interview questionnaire package and asking everybody you know regardless of their position the same questions and then trying to figure out why you're not finding the right fit for your company. So i i try to in the book. Go into through the stories. Go into the ways with some how. To's and so forth. That leaders. Ceos whoever can business leaders get their hands on the book can really start looking at. Why values Y values matter and why they drive results. Big topic made me think of comparison here. I think way when we're recruiting people for jobs. We need to think about it the same as a sports team so the best sports team is not always the eleven for a soccer team just putting the world olympic soccer players on the field doesn't mean they're going to perform its around the team and its around. How do you align those values and behaviors so when you recruiting people recruiting based on values and on the behaviors that you want. It doesn't matter how good that person is. It's probably not gonna work probably not going to work there so much evidence for that but yet people continue to make that same that same mistake over and over and over again because they don't in my opinion that just don't take the time to formulate what that is and what that looks like it takes real genuine leadership to get to the bottom of that and lead that through through the company so important and i'm curious right side so i'm listening here and i can see some sort of things coming through here but i'd love to know what you think i. Oh sorry. what are your core values ariza person. Yeah so me. As me as a person i wrote about this in the book. I didn't know what. I did not know really what values were Until i joined the army the army in one thousand nine hundred ninety five Which was a year after. I was on active duty. They they formulated and they published seven core values loyalty duty respect selfless service honor integrity personal courage. I have taken those and and manipulated those for the civilian world because the army of course has their definitions and what they mean to be soldier. Right in the army But i've taken personal definition from those for myself. And and i and i i say this in the book to you know if you don't have values these are seven great values that you just can't go wrong with right. There's there's nothing wrong with any of them. And if you can embody these values and the behaviors associated there in you. You could really make a difference in this world. So i you know along with discipline commitment. I give i give credit back to that. Organization to introducing me to what values are and how they're used and the importance of them and the importance of identifying all the behaviors and leading people through those behaviors. Along the way so that you do have alignment in your organization. So so yeah so i have adopted. I adopted them adopted them at an early age print. And you've done a low around leadership in human resources and how they fit together from values point of view on the first of january twenty one. You're launching the bravo center of excellence. You what does the instr- behind creating a platform for. Hr professionals in to become leaders. Excellent question a love that question. Because i had an. I had an aha moment several y- few years ago when i was going through my mba program. The university of michigan and it was the dean of the ross. School of business. Got through he. He led he actually was the professor for our very last course and it was all on lot of on on leadership and so forth and one of the studies that he presented Was a harvard was a harvard business. Study and it was focused on. Hr and leadership within human resources. And though i kind of felt this way kind of it was that moment. That said oh. There's a study on this and this kind of rings true and it was. You know they they. They go to all these. Ceo's globally and the simple question is do you view your top. Hr professional as a leader or as an administrator right and seventy five percent said administrators. So only one in four were viewed as actual leaders in their organization. That could that could partake in finding solutions to business needs not just transactional the transactional portion of human resources. You know where you're doing benefits enrolling people in benefits and compensation and you're investigating employee relations. That's all that's all great. Those are needed things. But who's who's working to find and to align the people operations with the actual business needs of the company who's leading that effort. And and that's when i said you know what somehow some way some day and now that day's coming to fruition here in a month it's on it's on me. I won't take on this mission to to change that to to switch that around so instead of one in four. It's three and four right that that would be fantastic and to deliver the type of leadership leadership education leadership development for human resource professionals and even for business leaders. So they know what so they know what to get and what they're looking to get out of their hr folks. It's not just compliance in a box you know. Hey we can't do this. We can't do that. You can only ask these questions at interviews. Don't talk about this you know. That's that's not what it is if you wanna be a real Leader in your organization. You're leading people and you're you're the person you're the people p the people's people if you will that's what human resources should be the leader at the top of that has to demonstrate those leadership abilities be in tune with the business so having the business accurate and the strategy accurate. How to tile that together so that you come up with the right. Hr strategies in order to meet the business needs now and into the future. So that's what we're going to attack. That's where that's what we're coming out of. The gate with with the bible center of excellence is leadership in hr and in in bringing that development program to the market to focus on that specifically. Now i love it. I think is such an important part of the of the world that we spend enough time focusing on and to me. It's mako break. The wither a company will be performing at a high level or not is with you. Get the right people on board. And so we need to empower the people that are leading that to you feel like their leaders and know that their leaders and they're really important. Part of the organization agree we own. Our smart people have great answers but the most successful people ask great questions. When was the last time you did something for the first time. You know when i when i read that in prepping wow that's so that's so relevant because it literally just happened Couple of days ago has nothing to do with Just in straight line with the question of my wife my wife renovate flips houses And she buys them. They're in pretty bad shape Gets them all refurbished and gets them back. Out into the market so her motto is rejuvenating. The neighborhood one one home at a time and This past weekend This house that she was working on she actually gave me the project like wow. I've never done this before. And i had to I've done hardwood flooring and so forth but this particular floor set of stairs An old old house I had i had to basically rip old flooring off And for this room. The best thing to work with some indoor outdoor carpet and all kinds of angles to cut. But i did it. I got it done. Looks good so it was literally a i a i for me. It was the first time it was the last time i did something for the first time. Nothing better than getting the hands doting and on the tones labor. I was a follower. I followed instructions. And did what i was asked to do. Really what does the one question that you would love to solve. Yeah so so. So i think goes in with what we were talking about the center of excellence. And it's and it's the it's the mission that i'm out to solve and i wrote this down. How do i change the tides and turn. Hr professionals into leaders right. So i'm doing my best to try and solve for that In delivering the best education content. That i can in order to make that type of impact. That makes sense very good for you. What is your definition of living an extraordinary life. Yeah my definition of that. Craig is is never been complacent and using my my own Gifts and talents my experiences To serve others and to to never stop doing that. I'm not one that that believes that. Just because i turn a certain age That that means it's time to retire. And just you know fade out into the into the wind or whatever whatever it gets done right. It's life's not over till it's over so it's it's just the daily passion to serve others to give back through Through my experiences and and and that the legacy that i leave her fascinating. I really liked that approach and i think that's so important. People think about themselves a bit too much but i think those that are truly. It is always think about how they can other people burger. How can people learn more about what you do. And what is the best way for people to connect with you. Yeah so website is robert bravo dot com. That's b. at the nba be. Oh that has bio. It has ways to contact me. It's got my email phone number. You can send messages through the website. always always happy to connect with anybody on linked in so robert brab linked in whatever the first part of it is and then profiles. Robert bravo You'll see that because you when you go on the link. It's got the website there to robert. Bravo dot com. That's probably the fastest easiest way For anybody around the world to get in touch some. We'll put those links in the notes as long with your podcast link as well so people can check out what you're talking about in people. You connecting with your. It's been an absolute pleasure speaking with you today to to hear from back when you were years old how you inspired to go in and serve as part of the us army and with jude to focusing on people and your whole life being around. How do we serve people. How do we ensure that people connect through values how to ensure that companies will teams can thrive based on the way that people were put together in in a team environment to listen to your insights into the excellence. That's required in. The quality control is needed for when you are executing in. Say a us army with regards to be executed. I project likes cuter. Person executed project. That the right way when you're working for the presidential places while the detail that goes in behind the event people might see the president. Speak for one minute to ten minutes may be sixty minutes. If you're absolutely lucky but the amount of hours and people and days that goes into making sure that success every single time is absolutely crucial. I love what you wanting to do. And creating at the moment with regards to the center of excellence and we look forward to seeing that thriving in twenty twenty one. And i know you got be making a massive difference. Many people's lives. Thank you so much for sharing your insights into leadership into hr and for people generally being great people. So thank you very much for your time today. Think you for listening to an incredible conversation with barbara white house. Leadership values on the active. See podcast do you have clarity on your deny for me. I like to have denied rather than us to provide clarity. you know. And so. I was fund that values can be a little bit too broad can be to open whereas when you start looking at things like dna you get good deepa a lot more specific around. What's important for you as a person or what's important for you for your company. So here are the deny that define how i live in work. I one passion light. The spark that makes a difference number two lead plant a seed everyday number. Three freedom live healthy laugh. Lots explore more nar regrets number four performance bring out the brilliance in everyone number five generosity give more than you receive number six challenge courageous in the uncomfortable number seven community make friends i bring people together and number right ingenuity in spied genius through creative collaboration is i deny that i love by says you can see this one word and then how you explain it so for me With my business energy to perform and for myself personally they the eighth things that i i look at every single day. I make sure that lined with and for me. It's really easy. Because charis him. Because i thought that'd be cool. I'd charis and because they really connect deep in my heart so passion learn freedom performance generosity challenge community and ingenuity. That's why live my life every single day. What is your deny. What defines how you live and work every single day. Have you got clarity on your non-negotiable deny that you live on if you need someone to god support and hold you accountable on your day through active senior coaching them. Please contact me at craig at energy. The number to perform dot com or cook on the contact page of craig jones dot com dot. Au website thank you so much for listening. This is being a great episode kickoff. Twenty twenty one. It's going to be a fantastic ear. Whoville amazing gifts lined up for you. I'm craig jones. This is the active. See your podcast with ordinary door below. Join the active see eye movement by visiting. Www dot enegy to perform dot com that's n. g. number to perform dot com chevy's podcast on linked in an face show to tagging energy to perform leader of you on i tunes drop us a line with your feedback and questions and connect with us on the energy to perform facebook and instagram pages. Be sure to check out the next active. See our podcast where the ordinary dunk belong.

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Girls Talkin' Boys: Former Dallas Cowboys WR Devin Street

Blogging the Boys

1:09:32 hr | 3 months ago

Girls Talkin' Boys: Former Dallas Cowboys WR Devin Street

"Support for this episode comes from t. mobile experienced the homerun derby like never before with the first of its kind. Mlb a our app brought to you by t. mobile the leader and five g. t. mobile and mlb partnered up to create an all new augmented reality experienced the brings advance stats three ball tracking and more right into your living room. Download the mlb a our app for your apple or android devices today. Fastest according to open signal awards based on average speeds in usa five g. experience report april. Twenty twenty one. C five g. device coverage and access details at t. Mobile dot com. Mlb trademarks used with permission. What's up guys tells. Charles marie here and you are listening to girls. Talk in boys in partnership with nation as always hulo friday. I hope everyone had a good short week. If you had monday off it made it to friday already. Look at us. Look at us. Would you would have thought. I'd be remiss if i didn't mention the fact that i don't like Often check out at the jersey boys who did talked about hard knocks and stuff. But i'd be remiss. If i didn't mention that there's a possibility that are queen's gambit could happen what because they're gonna do hard knocks in like you gotta do the epic battle of mark cooper Michael parsons like it has to happen. If that's not a major storyline in the entire series than it's a massive missed opportunity we'd find it producers. Hbo now yeah. Literally just hbo. We give us the content that we truly need. Yes i mean that you know what a week. I'm i'm here for that. Because they used to give out like awards after games like the hammer or like the special teams ace or whatever and this could be like a running part of the awards. I don't know if they do them anymore with mccarthy but you know i just feel like that could be a part of the thing or like whoever wins the tournament that week gets to smash the watermelons or whatever fruit that mccarthy feels like notching in his aac pre games. We just like this. That could be thing right again. feels appropriate. it does feel appropriate and like i was talking to john. Lewis shoda the other day and he mentioned as we can all tell that mike. Parsons has been personality. Yes so he was just like. I just feel like he's going to be the main character a year for it as long as i get the queen's habit that's honestly it really is really what we need so everyone genuinely pleased at. Hbo 'cause that's besides like gt. Be cameo like i was thinking about it. And i was like i just feel like we gotta figure out a way to get in there like even if i'm up. They're like recording my show. Maybe we maybe are just like run behind this. The you know the cameras and go full like you know random dude in the background with peace signs in the air like i don't know i'm i'm not above it. Is i trying to say. I mean it could happen. No chill would was had none chills. I feel like david helmets. Gonna make some ridiculous cameo as well. But like you know threatening to wear the most of noxious neon clothing neons so just look out for that in the back. Oh my god truly like there. Was this time on tv like when they were record. I think it was nbc. And they were. They were filming the team coming off the buses at training camp. And you'll remember this. Meg and dave like just full on trips over the something. The parking whatever like the concrete. What's that thing called. Whatever company in the parking lot and almost loses it on camera and it's phenomenal and like that is also the content that we need like. We needed a good job of trying to brush that under the rug. But i'm glad that you keep it on the forefront for all of us yes. You're welcome honest your plan you welcome for this content. Humbling him off constantly Well speaking of content. We have a really cool show for you guys this week. And it's very funny. Because i make an hour talking to him beforehand You guys may have remembered or heard of devon street and I was. I was sending him idea. But we're we were wanting to discuss with him. Which is training camp in life as an athlete and behind the scenes. Look and everything like that and let me tell you. We didn't talk about that whatsoever We we're starting to get some of that and they're like hold on a second. You said something really interesting so it turned into as we always do a very a deeper conversation than intended. Yeah it was really cool. I mean obviously we still touched on all the football things. But i feel like we took a lot of his philosophies and dip dug into the philosophy side of being an athlete in that. And and just you know how you approach things on and off the field. And then some of the greats that he's been around and You know he had some really. He has some incredible. Tom brady stories which i thought was pretty cool. I mean the guy really did get a chance to play with a lot of cool people neo from the romo's in daqing witton and castles of the world. That's mac castles touchdown. You know who didn't get to play with though it's damn shame collared keep home that whatever say voting your torch out there in the rain. Sister literally like someone's going to tell him how creepy i am in my keys. Going to file a restraining order against me speech talks about me constant. You're not following him. You're talking about him is he's keeping the legacy alive you pay you. He should thank you so much. I agree tile. Call me anyways. This is really fun interview. We hope you guys enjoy it demonstrate. Why receiver former hours for the dallas cowboys And police a cowboy forever. Let's let's not forget cavalry for life without further. Do what's gone dive in all right and joining us now. We have the one in only devon streets devon. Welcome to the podcast my friend long time. No talk longtime now talk. Yeah thank you for having me great to tap in. Was you know. I'm still alive. Yeah you'd say mcavoy always a cowboy way are they now addition demonstrate boy. Oh it's actually where are you now. I know we talked about it offline. But we're going to talk about it online for msci like. Tell the good people what's going on in your world in west the latest. At least you want you feel like sharing. How's that so. I mean jeez. Blessing the past. Like i played ages ago just turned thirty so but yeah after. Football decided to come out to colorado. I've been out here since like twenty nineteen. Yeah just wanted something different. Something new originally from pennsylvania so city kid concrete jungle outside of philadelphia. and then. yeah. I just wanted something new so i just picked a spot on the map at that. At the time. I left cowboys. I was pretty big into fishing. Fly fishing the outdoors stuff like that. So colorado seemed like the perfect place and then denver metro is pretty cool young professionals kind of cutting edge technology out here and and decided to pick boulder and then yeah i just like took like a year and a half two years kind of off. Stack my chips kind of well save some money up on that too much fun but yeah and then just enjoyed it. I got into a whole bunch of different things. I got into photography videography fishing. Just kind of got into or just experience things that i'd never experienced before because other rigorous schedule with the nfl and things like that and just the time and dedication. That's needed there. It was nice kind of iron. Are i guess you could say yeah. And then yeah. Funds ran out in having too much fun. And then i was like okay. I gotta get a job. You know not just retired for the rest of my life. Yeah and then got into real estate development. Construction got into that world during my time in the nfl into the ross. School of business for a little bit and really studied entrepreneurship and business. I was a marketing. Major cal have marketing major in college. So i kind of wanted to do something along those lines. But kind of change routes and like i said more infrastructure and real estate and working for a company out here through a mutual friend and then yeah kind of got. My rains understood the business a little bit. And now i'm kinda off on my own in another buddy of mine started our own real estate venture and now we're just doing our own investments. I guess you could say so out there. You keep him busy. Yeah yeah for sure Yeah we're definitely keeping busy but it's real estate market is on its head right now. You know prices crazy. I was gonna say you talk about a rigorous schedule at the nfl. I must be pretty crazy. Yeah yeah. I know just throwing myself back into stress. Yeah exactly exactly. That's all. I know how to do if you know if i'm not stressed out i'm doing something wrong so by right there my friends but it's all good you know because like it's like it's like a new breath life really just kind of doing a different career regular person. I've always been a regular person but it's been cool you know it's it's highs and it's lows but i'm enjoying every day of it just because i'm getting better every day as a person you know professional family all that stuff. So let's that transition life. Because i feel like i have friends. That have transitioned out of the league. And the spent a good part of their career doing just that like being an athlete. And then you know. I'm sure you you decide like a regular person. I'm sure that's kind of a weird thing to watch what you used to do on tv right and and you're still doing amazing things but walk us like what's that been like for you. Yeah i think it's been it's been relative to. I mean just to each individual. Because i stay in contact with a lot of players. I used to play with just friends who used to play and it's all been different for for both of us. I think we've all hit our our super lows. You know because it is such a big transition you know when you have sixty five thousand seventy five thousand people chanting your name and then it's just over like that you always. You're always cognizant of that but when it happens it's like what do i do like. Where's my self worth whereas my purpose all that stuff but for me it was kind of always prepared for it. Which in retrospect i shouldn't have been. It's more so i shouldn't. I was always worried about. Like what am i going to fall back on but you know looking at hindsight. I wish i was more in the moment you know. I wish i was more of like. I don't have a backup plan. This is kind of it. And and that's all i have. You know enzo actually had a speech like that graduation. It was pretty good it resonated with me so yeah so the transition was and it's a lot of people don't know how hard it was but for some it was a lot harder. I've talked to other players who really gone through a lot of depression. Anxiety yeah like suicidal thoughts and everything you know. Because they didn't know where that purpose was and you know what their next step. Was you know what fulfilled them outside of football. But you know like i said for me. It was just something that i was always prepared for. And i've definitely hit those lows for sure. But i think it's molded me into who i am now and then i think it also helps me talk to other players and just other people too. I mean everyone goes through it right. You know the highs and the lows are you know your top in your company and you company goes under and you have to figure it out or whatever you know. I think we all face that in life but the transition definitely we definitely was hard just because it was such a part of the one percent mean even under that you know just experienced in the nfl. And we've been doing it since we were five years old and then for the just stop grown adult life in like go figure it out. It's definitely tough. Yeah 'cause obviously you're incredibly talented to be able to even be competing at that level. But i think that some people don't realize that the dedication it takes to actually truly get there to truly get there like most people don't make it and to be able to make it and actually play and ill even if you don't play for fifteen years. It said a massive accomplishment in itself and so like you said like you're preparing your whole entire life for it and then one day it just kind of done. And i'm shirley like it's weird but i was am interested because you mentioned it. You kind of wish. He would have lived a little bit more in the moment but the same time it feels like you had a good back-up plan. Why do you like you always had a backup plan though d. Did you just. Was that kind of how you were raised. Always have that in mind or did you just think like hey. I feel like realistically i won't be doing this forever. Like where was your head out in that regard. I think it was. It's like the parents right or it's like people who have never experienced saying like oh it doesn't last forever or nfl stands for not for long. You know just hearing that all the time it was like you know even just coming across fans you know. It was never like it was always. You're talking about football. But then i was like. What are you going to do after like oh man. Geez it's gonna ask me that again so you know it's just thinking about it and thinking about it and thinking about it and then also i've i've loved football so much but at the same time i always knew there was a bigger world out there and just football. Football is really. It's just a game you know. I mean there's a lot of things that come with. So i mean it can be beautiful right and so many people can look up to you and your role model and all this other stuff but at the same time i was always just worried about like. Hey you know when it's done. What what can i do you know and like i said i think i focused on it too much because i'm perfectionist at heart. Yeah and you always hear the stories like the andrea rising and all these other people who just blew through all their money had no idea what to do and then the hurt and the pain to yo hear all that stuff. So i never wanted to be that guy but yeah like i said. It's kind of like a dollar store because you don't want to be too cognizant of the game but then at the same time you don't wanna be unprepared. Yeah unprepared exactly so yeah. Do you still watch cowboys games. I have to ask yeah. So are you catholic. Fan like disclose that now. Because i know you said you didn't grow up there. Like i'm era told you this my family's from philadelphia so what is my. My mom's side is trump. so we'll talk some. We'll talk some things here in a minute but i i it was when i worked for the team. Full-time my family gave me hell. And they were just like what are you doing. You know. And i assure i i don't know your billions but i'm sure you had some friends at least two or like my guy like what we'd do all the time all the time you know especially coming philly like i'm literally from twenty five minutes outside of philly so i would hear that all the time but then i went to pittsburgh university of pittsburgh too so then that was like it's big a controversial over there exactly just starting problem. So you know like grown-up. I always wanted to play for. I mean eagles or the you know the steelers. When i was a pit at the time. Just because i don't know had a bond with it. I experienced it but cowboys were always something like man if i could play for the cowboys and then i'll be like nah no way you know. Just because they are the cowboys i mean. They've always been star studded champions. Jerry jones charisma all that stuff polarizing personality so it was always one of those things to pay for the cowboys and when i did get drafted by them it was just like yeah. Dreams do come true just even in that moment but definitely ruffled some feathers. You know family and just being a boy. Because i've always hold true to that to my dad big. Pa guy you know. He's still never left still in my hometown. So i i'd hear all that stuff from his friends and family members and stuff. But i think at the end of the day they were all still pretty happy for me just because everwhere cowboys jersey. Yeah actually they would only wear mine and they would only playing and then soon as their team like all right. We're done done right. They're definitely got the backlash. But you know. I mean tennessee your question. I'm always be a cowboys fan. Just because the gave me an opportunity you took a chance on me drafted me. Should it drives me a lot earlier but to exactly. I got in trouble the college still so i understood. They thought they were taking a risk. Or whatever but now always be a cowboys fan. I'll always follow them and i do. I don't i'm not like devout. I don't know all their draft picks but another they got a pretty good linebacker at penn state. Yeah now the guy too. So i know they got that wide receiver from stanford semi you know so. Yeah i do pay attention for sure. Still i mean even teammates that i played with two tire in lisle collins. Back all those guys you know we had a. We had a bond in the locker room. And i'll always continue to root for those guys and wish them the best going forward. What was the locker like. I feel like that's one of the things that as someone. I feel kind of lucky to be able to have gotten a chance to. You'll have those types interactions with you guys than before i worked in the league. You're always outside perspective. Looking in. And i think megan i have where where a dez bryant stand podcast like 'cause i been able to have conversations with him and i'm like i know his heart's in like who he is like in what. He's the the interactions do. We'd had personally. I can't speak for every single thing he's ever done in like. I'm not going to try to but like it's a lot more than just this guy like yelling on the sidelines right. He's actually yelling because he cares about it. And i always tell this story on this podcast that he came me one time and he was like my first family was in the locker room. Like this is why it means so much to me so like what was that like dynamic light because again like you're you play with a lot of guys like they are still playing for this team in her a lot of leaders and it. I'd love if you have any insights or color commentary you care to share With with the group. If you will. Yeah yeah. So i mean i was there at such a fortunate time. I i was there at tony romo. Yeah arguably one of the greatest. Well you know. Arguably one of the great quarterbacks exactly agree with you right so you know being him in the big wit you know. I mean unanimous hall of fame guy. I mean is there. So and then with dez demarco murray. I mean so many guys. Darren mcfadden know one of the all-time greats. Yeah just a great dude. It was really cool. Because i got to see so many different walks walks of life like accomplished. You know different backgrounds. So i think i was really there at a fortunate time cowboys history and just the team and just players. Who were their coaches. Who were there jason garrett long history with the cowboys toes really great and then at the same time too. It's like you know. I see these guys every day and then of course we see what's in the media and we see how the media portrays guys and stuff like that and it's just. It's not like that. Right in touch on desert point of having a true family in the locker room. I felt the same way. You know i come from a really good background at two parents in the home you know. I had a pretty good upbringing. Fortunate just kind of middle class car but the same time understand his point you know from that family aspect just because it touches on the transition of the nfl like me and you can have a conversation about that transition but having that feeling right and guys understanding what that's really like there's a special bond there because it resonates in you know that person goes through it you know so. I think that's the biggest thing i miss. I miss ball. Miss putting on the uniform suiting up on sundays. But i think the biggest thing i miss is that camaraderie with each other in the players. And you lose out on that as much as you want to hold onto it you still lose lose out on it even after the fact and that's for whatever reasons right whether it's men thinking they're too bold or too masculine to talk about things or whatever it is it's just hard to keep up with them but yeah being in the locker room it was. It was something something crazy you know. We get you players. Coming in. Like greg hardy. I'll never forget him coming in. Been just like everyone talking about him. And then just seeing how he approached the game and a whole bunch of different stuff. Yeah yeah superintendents you know but yeah it's just like you know just seeing all those people come to room and then being able to talk to them and like you see him you see what's in the media but then like you get to know him like i got to talk to greg in. Yeah he has different personalities. But i mean just think a good solid did you know so it was. It was great. I think just are wide. Receiver room was really cool just with coal co visa was a really good friend of mine. We still stay in touch. Actually went down austin weeks or a couple of years ago and then we hung out at his ranch. Did all that stuff still lucky. We still stay in contact with so yeah. It was just like when you're in that locker room. You're just a band of brothers you know and You know you get close to each other and immediate can say one thing about this guy or that guy but you know those guys true at heart and i would say for the most part. We had a good group of guys. No one was perfect but at the same time we had a really good guys in. I'll always cherish that. That bond that we had for sure you really were there at a you really unique time i feel very similarly where i got lucky that i was with like sean lee. Like miles edition. Yeah like jason witten. Tony romo dez. Bryant demarcus ware. I watched demarcus ware. Rehire like that's easier legends walking around you and it just you don't really you think about it but you don't think about it because it becomes kind of normal for you and then we'd take a step back and you're like oh wow like i mean. That was a moment in time. Like that's kind of wild to be able to witness that and it's honestly pretty bad us and i feel very similarly in terms of like i always be a fan of the cowboys because ultimately they're the ones that got me my first job ever in the industry and i don't work fulltime for them anymore. I do part time suffer for them because they just can't get rid of me. But i feel like it's very sentimental kind of relationship if you will also that's cool and it's and it's good to because like like you just named all those names right. Everyone knows them for their name. But at the same time you got to talk to them and see the people that they are so that was always cool to me is just understanding. You know the person behind the number. I guess you could say. And i really enjoyed that so she was like the most. If you had to name someone the most misunderstood or one of the people that says don't even have to think about it. Because i still know that guy's heart and people ask me all the time like oh you put it does. And that's the first person they bring up. Really who had the biggest chip on their shoulder would really yell. It just didn't get attention from the media. Was jason witten. W- it was like the biggest like head case not head case but like he he cared yeah like intense like and it was like i mean he would get mad at anyone but it was just in garrett tony whatever he wouldn't he wouldn't back down. He wins shy away because it was all for the greater good and it was just for his passion of the game. You know and you have the you had to recognize it as that and not like all the guys complaining or this or that. But it's just like they care they care so much and i think does cares a lot but man w- it was like you know at the camera was on. I think yeah exactly. His personality was way more stronger. I guess you could say. But i mean i've learned so much from that guy and as both of those but i would say does though most misunders doesn't my dogs. Let's go to our babies. Yeah i don't know they probably running downstairs. Someone's eating a ball that's awesome now kind of recall something that you said. Though i'm you mentioned like chilling wait. What's his name. This is the secondary. Now that's bellevue bella. Her name is how is another one. his name is rocky but kind of hard to c. She's like a reservation dog too. There's a lot of reservation land out here in colorado and new mexico and she's like a total catalogue which i love her. She's love bug and she'll go on any fishing trips with me. I got the other one. And he's like scared of his own shadow won't even put his toe in the water is like let me be in the city. Let's go walk around here. She's my girl so he's a little batty. Mix love that. Yeah you're fine. I didn't even see the dog gladys directions. That's distraction. i was just gonna say you did mention like being out of the league and going through kind of like a lot of guys experienced depression and also when you're in the locker room kaiser masculine don't wanna talk about their feelings. That was kind of your experience. You know back when you were playing. Have you noticed. Maybe like a slight shift in that with like even guys like docker anyone. You know discussing their mental health more openly. Yeah definitely yeah. And i think it's a good thing. I think the league is definitely involved in that way. And then yeah. But i think it's what's going on. What's what's gone on. Since i've exited the league just about with george floyd and just how the world is more inclusive you know. I mean i was at athletic the other day and they had mannequins on that look like every different shape and size of a woman. That's that's how it should be. You know it's never been like that. And i think we like a generation. That's in the nfl right. Now is very cognizant of that right. I think you know you look at pastimes and seven sixties. Eaten bpm man. You know. that's just how that's just how it was. You know but it's all facade you know and whoever tries to live like that it's just faking it at the same time. We're all humans. Men women doesn't matter purple green. So i think they're doing a a way better job at that and i think it's needed because there's a lot of guys who fell by the wayside who didn't feel like they can speak out ended up making decisions that you know. It's sad vincent jackson junior sale or some peace. All those guys. I feel like they had things going on where they couldn't speak out about it and didn't know how to deal with it and then it all just comes to in our tip. You know where you can't can't control it so i think it's so important especially in the nfl because of that stereotype around surrounding masculinity in all of these things and then what you put in your body to in some of those things you see so many different guys who are more vegan or health conscious you know. Don't you know that's been a myth to is right red meat do all this other crazy stuff. But that's could be a detriment. So i think jack is definitely one of those guys too. And that's why. I'll always love doctor who he is as a person just because he's like that you know he's very cognizant very down to earth you know very he cares to right. He cares about his teammates. He cares about his brother. And i think that's just from his upbringing right. I think his mom being there and then him having to deal with that. I think that's why he's just the perfect meteor a perfect quarterback and it just couldn't happen to a better guy so yeah it's it's awesome. I love that that's happening in the league. I love just what they did with carl. Massive too you know. That was amazing. Nfl who's gay just and all these things right. Because he's not yeah. He's the first one to come out but there's been plenty of. Nfl athletes that were gay right but just couldn't didn't feel like they could talk about it and they couldn't to be honest because let's be real about it. There were teams that weren't accepting of it. I mean that's another thing too. Michael sam you know. And he he. Everyone knew that right. But at the same time he still wasn't accepted by different figures in the locker room or different coaches or whatever. Because i thought he definitely had the talent or talent some others to to definitely play in the nfl for longer than he did. So i'm glad the way it's the acceptance has been going up. And i'm i'm so glad that the players are really taking charge of it as well and especially the injustice the social inequality pat mahomes and all the players did last year too. And then you know. They're making an offices. Follow suit right. And roger goodell follow suit. They're the ones who led the way. And then you know owners and things are understanding it now too so players are very important in the nfl. And i think they're doing a really great job for for the nfl and then just for society because as young boys young women you know looking up to that too and now they they understand possibilities are endless and now they have a voice and speak out. Do all this stuff. So it's been it's been great. I think it's always been said like you have a platform when you're an athlete but to see them like really like feel that power of their platform has been so yeah. I don't totally agree with your point there. I think it's refreshing. actually here. You be so candid about that. Because i agree with you. I don't think it was a thing that was as supported up until pretty recently. And i'd love to dive into that further if you don't mind because of course i think there's a lot of discussions around. Why didn't come here to have these types discussions. I came here to watch a game. I came here to escape. Or whatever else are you know. Just we know the famous like stick to sports quote right. What what are you. What's your response to that. If you know like it when when you hear things like that are if you were in that position in someone had said that to you or if they did it to you what what say you to those types in in that kind of commentary. Yeah i think it's just the close mindedness to progress. I mean just to say shut up. Dribble is is just marginalizing. Anyone right and you wouldn't do that to your own family your own daughter your own son. So why would you do that to someone else right. Who has worked so hard to have this platform and wanna have or one a cause change right or you know and it's it's good change too you know so it's not like it's someone seeking out like devilish activity or whatever it is you know. I think it comes from a place. That's good and for anyone who doesn't want to hear it is just close minded. Like i said doesn't want to progress and doesn't want to see the other side right so you know for anyone to say that that's what they that's what they want to say. But you know it's hard for me to try to sway that decision or change that decision but it's it sucks because like i said i think you know we're all here on this earth to help each other. You know i feel like humans are not your to just live their individual life. And that's it. I feel like we're all here to better each other. So and even if you could just listen to a conversation or listen to what that person's thinking it might change your. I know it sure has changed mine. You know i always. I haven't been accepted of everything you know but the more i opened myself to it and the more i listen just listen right because a lot of people. I think it's hard for people to do. That is just listen but when you do that you have an openness right and you and you might not understand it right but at least you you listen right and you're trying to so that was really cool like even with you. Drew drew brees. Did you know what he went through with the whole military thing and just not understanding right. I mean it's just it's just not understanding it so you can change your opinion when you're presented with new information. I feel like people don't need to hold tight. Yeah yeah exactly. I love that. But yeah i couldn't agree more with that. So yeah that's hard one. You know we go round and round with it. But i just. I think it's going in the right direction. It's a lot of painful conversations. A lot of conversations one has had or is haven't been opened up to it but it's needed. It's but it's the same situations like you know like we're in a relationship right when you're in a relationship and not all relationships are rainbows and butterflies right so you go through things whether it's financial troubles whether your spouse's cheated on you whether you know whatever it happens if you don't have those difficult conversations you guys will never make it through you know you guys end up getting divorced or whatever it is just because you hold it all in. You're not really understanding the other person you know and you might not tell you still might get the but at the same time as you had. We've had those difficult conversations so you get to that point like what brought you here. Yeah yeah yeah exactly. So i mean if you have those than like i said you're more understanding more open. You feel like you can have those conversations with them. And i feel like that's what's going on you know in the league so get ready for stats on your baseball stats with the first of its kind. Mlb a our app brought to you by t mobile. Get in the moment. Data on every single hit launch angle exit velocity. Hang time and you can even bring a three d. model of course field right into your living room complete with real time ball tracers. Download the mlb a app today for your apple or android device. T. mobile account with five device required for some features. And i'll be marks used with permission support for this episode comes from locker room the app. That's changing the way we talk. Sports locker room is a sports fans. Dream come true. It's a live audio platform that lets you connect with other fans experts. And even the athletes themselves locker room makes it easy to start your own conversations. Talk about the latest rumors takes news and teams you care about most join massive watch parties for all of your friends to react together in real time as you celebrate a buzzer beater or suffer the agony of crucial bricks. Free throw. and if you've got a bunch of supremely spicy takes you'd like to fire off during luck can even record the conversations if you want and released them as a podcast. So it's time to start thinking about catchy titles it's all totally free and available at the ios apps store right now so go download it today. Locker room changing the way we talk sports. Yeah kind of the opinion like the more that you're given the more that is expected of you type of thing no matter what your religious beliefs or whatever else it may be but i. I think that it feels if you can. You should exactly email like. That's just kind of been my mentality. And i think that that's it makes a lot of sense to me if you can know like lift while you climb could apply a lot of things across the board So i love that. I think that's it's totally uncomfortable. You know because. I think there's also a lot of things that you don't know that you know and you're like shit like i. I would have never in a million years thought of that but that's the whole point. That is the exact po point of why you have to do it. You sit there with your blinders on. It's like what are you doing. How how for me. I can't imagine a world like that where you're just doing the same thing over and over again because it's comfortable to you right and like what. What what what fun is there in being stagnant and you know what i mean like i just i don't know those are those are the people that don't understand it and like everything that's more than me has been for uncomfortable situations or failures seriously. I mean in my triumphs. I mean i remember those moments. But i don't really remember what i learned from them. You know i've always learned things from. Yeah my trials my failures. I continue to fail every day especially in real estate. So but that's the beauty of it you know and even i don't know that's that's what you call said to right. There's beauty and the struggle. So yeah that's that's what it is and then too much is given much is required so there's always going to be people that don't see but i think there's more people starting to pay attention to is really cool so i love your comment and i can't give a fully away but i had this idea that i've been noodling on for a really long time and i you just kinda brought part of it to life where you talked about your failures and i have this thing evolve beyond social media. Still bless you for that. But i'm pretty open person of the things that i talk about and i think i have a problem. I have an issue with the self help culture especially like how it's been monetize lately. Where so often like these people with quote like perfect lives like selling you this book. This like journal that you have to buy so that you can be xyz. It's like we're not gonna talk about the fact that like you will come from to the dual income household and they you make the hell a lot of money as it is and so you were able to start your own business or whatever right you already. You already skinny when you were trying to sell me. That supplement but like cool. I say all that. Because i feel like a lot of it's kind of bullshit and you can cuss on this podcast because like we're cool like the on there but what i think the biggest growth comes from like you said in your failures like tell me the time. When tom brady like fell to his knees like i want want that moment that moment when he was like. This isn't working. And i have to do it differently. Or you know what i mean. Talk to me about those moments in time. Where like you had to dig so deep they you realize what really mattered to you and how you were going to get there. That's where i think it lies the real stories in humanity and i'd love d. Do you have any apps top of your head like i just. I'm you talked about it. So i'm imagining that. You have a few moments but like those are fascinating to me. Well i can tell you right now actually about tom. You know when. I first got to the patriots. It was it was a crazy situation. It was like. I was traveling for like seven hours. Got a call. I went went to the jets and got a call from new england. And whatever it was i got into new england like. I don't know three thirty in the morning. And then i had to be over the facility for physicals and everything like five thirty. And i remember some assistant. Pick me up some no name. Twenty twenty one year old kid trying to you know make it with the patriots and yeah he picked me up. We got over to new england and this was like right after camp. I got released from dallas and then going into week one or whatever like that but it was like an off day because they just had a crazy day before that and i got there at five thirty solid trainers while there's only one trainer head trainer there and i ended up getting my physical and everything like that and then i ended up seeing tom like i walk past the because walk into the training room and then on the left was to be room or whatever it was and i saw someone watching film. I didn't really see his face. But i was like tom. Brady you know. Because i mean i haven't seen tom either. But you know played with tony so kind of the same thing but anyway so i ended up doing that whole thing the whole day and then ended up watching film. Just getting ready. Got my locker room ready doing all that stuff. And then we were staying in this extended stay right and for whatever reason no one ever came to pick me up so i was just stuck out the facility right and i didn't have the guy's number because i was still there and whatever. There was a mixup. So i ended up being there till like four o'clock and i was only supposed to be there for like two hours and tom you know was still there and he pulled me aside and he said hey. What's up man. how you doing. I'm tom brady. I was like yeah. Fuck you are but yeah. And then he ended up you know we ended up having a conversation and you know said why are you here and all this other stuff and they picked me up off waivers and all that shit is it. Good i'm glad i called you in here. I wanted you to be here. You know i've been following your journey and stuff like that like follow my journey. I mean what you just asked me. What my name was you know. So yeah he ended up just saying you know. I've been following you and you seem like you've got a good head on your shoulders. And he said. Let's go to work so i said yeah okay cool so then anyway. He ended up calling someone to pick me up and then they took me back to my extended stay and then i had to go back that night. I had to go back at seven. Thirty because i had something was wrong with my ekg. Or whatever. and i had to get my ekg. So then i went back over at seven thirty and ended up getting my ekg and there'll be in some food. And then i was walking out. Known was in their doctor. Doctor was like i'm going to go. And the jenner was in there only only the janitor and they were cleaning up and then i was walking out in ready for my ride at this time. Like nine thirty after that and then end up walking bass the same room in. Don't you know it's fucking. Tom still sitting there so he was in there at five thirty in the morning. How that talk with me. He might have went home for a quick lunch or whatever but point being was he was there that entire time on his off day when they just had a crazy day from five thirty to nine thirty at night. You know so me seeing. That was like i'm totally failing. I've never spent that. I've never spent that much time in a facility right. And here's this guy. You know fourteen years in the nfl here right the only one there. No coaches no other players. Just him and the janitor so me seeing that. I wish i saw that when i was you know. Thirteen or like. When i was first one. I was rookie. You know i mean tony. Put his time in. Sean lee put his time in jason witten put his time in nothing like that in our because that trend was the same same way he was the first one in and the last one out so i tried to do it. I mean there was like two days. After that i wanted to be the first one in their. Tom beat me still. And then i was like. I'm going to sleep here because at the time. The patriots had like sleeping quarters where you could sleep in there and they had like a float tanks and all that other stuff so you could stay there so i tried to do that. I just couldn't. I just wasn't for whatever reason i just didn't have that. And he did. I think that put it into perspective for me like now where i'm at now. It's just a time in the dedication and then we ended up having a conversation right before i left the patriots and you know he just talked about what it really takes like what it really takes. You know not what it takes to be successful what it takes to be the greatest at something and it's almost it's almost a psychotic nature seriously. No it's almost like it's but it's you understand where it can take you. You know so that. Always hold true to me. And i try to approach everyday like that now to as just understanding the value of time the value dedication time but then also that struggle right like one thing that he said to me too. It's not easy. I sit here and watch film in. Like i want to go home and spend time with my kids and giselle and all this other stuff but where i wanna be. They understand that and they understand that time the dedication it's not forever so i mean that will always so true to me and if you ever going through tough times or whatever you know is stressing anxiety as part of life you know. He says you don't need a medical or whatever it's just part of it and those who can deal with that and push through and persevere really ended up growing and accomplishing. What they want to accomplish. So that was my quick story about tom. Brady and his psychotic. Just how crazy he is. But he's he's he's the greatest player ever not. Just the greatest quarterback but the greatest player ever. And i think that's the reason why also pair that with talent to i think he does our talent but i don't think he's always had that talent. I think there's plenty of other quarterbacks who are way more talented than him. He just had dedication like no other. I i love that. And i think i think greatness is consistency and i also think i always think back to. When i was younger my dad would tell me when i was little high school hero trying to do my sports saying in in just in general in life like you learn a lot of life lessons from sports but he was like when i'm making a higher you know he works in finance. He's like so there's a lot of people that come in. They have a bad ass resume right like they went to wharton or they went to harvard or ever amazing business school and cream of the crop in terms of on paper. But you give you the guy over here who went to georgia. State works his ass off to give it to me all day. He's like i'll pick him all day over this person who feels entitled because of what they were given or where they came from or you know the talents that they may have like you can lose sight. I think pretty easily if you have some of those gifts are the some of those privileges or abilities in. And i think that's really unique for a guy like tom who obviously has that but also is like no like i'm i still building did grinded out like that that its core is like the greatness that it takes and then the tylenol in. That's what i was. You know what you asked me. Is the failures though right and what it was. That's what he won. He already failed so many times before that in just in everything that he did from from his standard right from his perspective of a standard. You know like he wanted to go number. One wanted to be first round all that stuff so those are failures to him and you know everyone has their own sense of failures right. But that's what motivated him and he never wanted to experience that level of failure again. Now he always. He's you know he's always you know experiencing those small little failures when you throw incomplete pass or whatever it is but those failures are the ones where he really learned about himself and really learn what he wanted to achieve. So so yeah. That's just what it ties back to as the failures kind of drive. You also i i like this to. We could talk about game philosophy. i eat your obviously. You're coming back on podcast. Is we have other things talk about. We're not going to be. I know other things that i love like psychology wise especially you know building teams right not just sports teams but i want people on my team that hate to lose you know. I want the people that hate to lose more than they like to win and i recognized. It wouldn't even when you were talking. You've been talking about how like you quote did have it as much as the tom brady did. But even when you when i hopped on you made a joke you like. The cowboys didn't get me. I want that shit. Give give that to me all day. You're like you're like no man like like you should have picked me higher. Yeah i know my. I know my worth. You know what i'm like about that. No like i get mad about not being where you wanna be versus being like. I'm a bad ass. Because i got drafted which again in itself. Getting drafted is such a massive accomplishment. Did so many people can't even say they've been able to do you know yeah. Yeah you gotta have the tripoint shoulder you to have that confidence you know because mean praying you no one else going to have confidence in. You know i mean you got to be your biggest fan for sure and you deal with that too in the. Nfl is just because you're getting all these outside. Critics getting coaches some coaches really like you. Some coaches don't but you gotta continue to know who you are in know what you're capable of and just know that. Yeah you are about us no matter if you're an rn. Because some of those women are bad asses. You know whether you're doing marketing. Whatever is you. Gotta have that. And i think that's what's that's what separates you to just having that confidence for sure. So did you ever like yourself when you're playing like like how did you deal with that. The critics is i feel like i can't even i know like megan ideal with mike. God bless her like having meghan. Murray on your team is a wonderful thing in a great place to be because like she'll just go in like motherfucker people that try and cited my dm's they're like my mentioned she's like excuse you in imagine like some of the stuff like you dealt with like. How did you deal with that those types of pressures just people having opinions when they don't even know what they don't know yes so i'd go with myself all the time because so when i first started doing it or when i was in the i guess college a hit me hard you know but it was more gave me the drive but at the same time it would hit some pain points where they were calling me skinny or or this or that but i was never good at it right away. You know and i think anyone who tells you. Oh i don't care what people say about me. Bullshit right it's human nature right and i think biological tendencies. There's some things that we can't get away from so it would hit me hard. At first when i first started paying attention to it but then after that i wanted to know what people thought about me because there was some truth to it at some point to write like knowing your weaknesses right. Some people can't deal with that right. Is someone calling you out on your weaknesses or whatever it is and some some. Some of the stuff was bullshit. You know it's just commentators or whatever reporters not even having a clue not even sniffing the field but at the same time there was some truth right and there was other things where i wanted to analyze that and be like i gotta go out and prove this you know and not prove it to them but they i could understand where they're coming from. I need to go prove that you know so. I always enjoy that. And i think like i always pictured myself or like a c- ceo right if they could like have employees that they could trust for them to come into their office and be like. I think we're doing this wrong or hey. I think you're doing this right and you know some might be bullshit right. You might have that guy who'd never sniffed corporate or whatever the highest level but at the same time if that's ao can look at that and penalize that like okay we at her. It's like a really good company. And so for me individually that was like and that's what i that's what's going to cultivate the greatness in mea the drive in being or whatever it is you know so i did pay attention to it and i did care a lot earlier in my career but at the same time you know auger down that road kind of immelman so i like i like that shit when people talk shit about me because i i like it. I wanna prove it to go through with my mom to your own parents. You know you'll go through that with just even like with the real estate stuff you know. I can't remember. It's it was slow and i mean it's still slow now. It's not like anywhere where i wanted to be because i have such a high standard and i wanted to be as big thing so i can do other things too like. I'm not in real estate just to do real estate. I wanna be able to do more with funds of it and all that stuff. Yeah i love when people will say you can't do or they critique you this way or it's not on their time you know. It's not on their timeline. I love those people to write. That will like oh. You've been in you know. Been doing this for a whole year. You haven't done this yet. i'm like okay. You have you done it right. You know or like. Where am i going to be in ten years. You know so yeah. I love that and i pay attention to a lot of those people who've done that like elon. Musk tom brady. You know. I have some people in my small circle that been the same way. Have bishop and totally down in our right. And no one has believed in them and they they do it just because you know they're capable of doing that so yeah well are they gonna review. Internet another podcast. So he didn't even what we talked. We told you we're gonna talk about. We didn't even talk about it. I'm sorry we have so much to talk about so much interesting. We had to gone tangent. We realize how how very much our brand you worse. This is good so much. Yeah i actually want to close out. Today's episode of your first appearance with us. 'cause you're now a friend of the show but what's your if you had to pick an nfl memory near career that your favorite like when you just look back and you reminisce. You're like that was it like. That's that's the moment time like i'll never forget. I'll tell my kids are out of your kids. Whatever now i'll tell everyone that one is probably that tom brady story. Just because that's i mean that's one we'll always hold true for me. But the one. I mean my my touchdown someone i i. Yeah you know so. That was like it was is that giant stadium where i in a pipeline in pennsylvania. So i'm like forty five minutes from trenton. New jersey forty five minutes or thirty minutes. Forty five minutes depending on traffic to philadelphia. And then like another forty five minutes or so center city manhattan so at that game. I had so many people there like even people. I didn't even get tickets for no that. Were at that game. Giant's game at metlife and it was one of those things. Where i always envisioned myself scoring a touchdown the nfl and it was like that. It was like a time crunch game. It wasn't like super bowl or anything but it was a game where it was tight. We're going to go in overtime all this other stuff. That's just how it happened and making that catch like i'll never forget how time just stood still like that was the slowest like when castle threw the ball it literally felt like it took forever for that ball to get there and then it was just so quiet and then i fell to the ground and i got up. I looked up breath like right in his eyes and he put his hands up and it was just i coldly like is this a dream. You know just. Because i've been dreaming about since i was eight years old. I'll never forget. I was in the back of a car when i was eight years old. We we were going somewhere. We're going to lunch or something. And i just sit in the back and i told my mom i was like i'm a score a touchdown the nfl one day. She's like okay. Honey years old. Come from my nose and keep working hard and you can do whatever you want. And it was weird just because i had that same vision or i can remember that vividly after i scored that touchdown so yeah i think those two those two memories will always be long does a pretty good once. I guess i don't know his own a celebration dancer where you just like. Oh my god. No i still cringe at like what i mean like. It was so awkward. i've ever a like jumped on me. And i did like just awkward thing by chest. I looked athletic and really know what to do. And it was like man. I wish i would have plan for that like the videos on youtube. And i think he was on the two and they showed it out. And i'm like i celebrations cannot be like te'o ocho cinco whatever you know so scary in the ball back to the ref and did a weird little just won't i was trying to prepare for that. It would have been a lot better if i did something like cool but it was a pretty good catch though on what you would have done differently. And we'll let you hit the world to see talk or something the next seven-year next venture right talk. That's i'm too old for that man like got like you need to get on. You'd be great. And i'm like guys. I'm i'm at the point where i'm like asking people how to like hands-free video or something like addicting all the dancers and everything but i'm seeing people like position differently now so yeah i mean i think it's i think it's progressing too. I think you could do a lot of different things. But yeah i've been. I've been trying to stay off social media a little bit more just because that worlds can get a little toxic. And but i think it's great for him to so yeah while my friend and this has been wonderful way beyond expectations. We know you're gonna be great but then realized gonna be this great so awesome because our came into like what the hell you know what i'm going to talk about like from the past l. even played. You know. I appreciate you guys having me on. We're being serious having you back so don't worry but tell the good people where to find you anything You know all those all those things. You're you're on instagram. And i i actually personally like falling you. It's fun Musical yeah yeah on instagram street on twitter too. I don't really tweet. Too much on their accepts. According to lyrics that should be to my life or whatever one but yeah mostly on instagram. I would say but yeah you can follow me on instagram. I don't know. I guess there's moments where i get kind of creative artsy and do some do some outdoor stuff and then just give insight. You know what's going on in my life on. There's a lot of men with fish out there. But i'm only interested in this me visually appetizing. I'm a very visual person. So i like to sometimes. Like i said i get my moods where i want to just be creative and make something cool or or whatever you know so. I think i'm going to start doing that. More after this real estate stuff going more a little bit more but it takes up a lot of time. But like i said i love venture off often just experiencing new things. So if you're if you're eclectic can s my instagram could be entertained to but you're probably you listen to this podcast. You probably are eclectic so have some fans already guy. I'll go golfing gods the outdoors you know next. I'll be on a harley. Drive a motorcycle so do whatever whatever you know. Sparks your interest talents and do it yeah experiencing feel. It tasted demonstrate. Everyone thank you so much for joining us Real we're having him back so don't worry and we appreciate you my friend. Thank you awesome. Thanks for having me some mega appreciate you. I mean word on the street was that he is such a great guy. Sorry i had to get my son in there. Somewhere in the street was right there. Without regardless of my time. Every's that was so cool. Yes he really is. First of all i appreciate your copy and it was very much like off the cuff. So congratulations for that. 'cause i that would have taken me a long Along minute to contemplate in put together so those to you but yeah. I mean. That was so fine. That was so cool. Obviously we're going to have him back and actually talk. You know maybe some more xs knows. Now he's a friend of the pod he can come like recap a game with us or something. Yeah yeah but I just thought that was neat. And i really did. I love that. Tom brady story. I thought that was really cool in like a i. Just i can nerd out on a lot of things. But i also do really love you. Just the the sport psychology in philosophies in how you approach a the game but then apply to other areas of life to just the way you're living in i i don't know i think That was really cool to just get that behind. The curtain look in his insight from at least performing at that high level because again we realized that maybe maybe he didn't make it till like the antonio brown level or what whatnot now. He's an example of I ask say know at the same time. Like i don't. I don't think we realize at times what it takes to actually get to the league. You know two hundred percent is massively impressive you know. Yeah and it's something you just don't think about like when you leave your obviously like a dallas cowboy like that's so cool forever and like that you know just ride that high but like it's so smart that way he thought ahead and you know the way he just explains the mental toll. It takes on what you once you leave the spotlight of wearing the jersey in having that your helmet so yeah very cool. Yeah exactly so anyways. We hope you guys enjoyed it. Like i said we he will be back. We have given him no choice but to return and warned he really was. We were not kidding either. I think he realizes that. But guys. Thanks for joining us. We do appreciate you tuning in make sure you are subscribed to the bog. Boys podcast every year. Podcast with his spotify apple. Itunes i tunes it. There's an s. on there. you know. Yeah thing the service it's been around for fucking decade kelsey. He's frank put the e. on their day from the interviews. So we're good to go right okay. Good big anyways Yeah we're on all those left worm de-subscribe you can also follow meghan. I as well. I promise I'm a little bit better at spelling. Not that much better on. When i'm on social media i'm on instagram at hey kelsey charleston on twitter at kelsey underscore charles in meghan is. She's bringing her writing back. Says she's a lot more interesting than me. But you can follow me at at at meg. Murry with four hours Not quite as eloquent. But i try well. You actually are because you created this next phrase Out of out of. Just all of it's majesty. And i kind of plan on using it because i'm going to actually going to philly this weekend So philly forever. i'll preface that. But how about you just really emphasize the mentality as we head into this weekend and please pray for me while i'm in bird. City dallas forever philly four. Never if you're howard is an and you're in philadelphia and you see me. Please make sure you protect me. I'm terrified goodbye. Protect me please. Thanks to t mobile for sponsoring this episode experience. The t. mobile homerun derby like never before the first of its kind. Mlb a our app brought to you by t mobile. Every single homerun analyze player performance and get in-depth detail of every moment of the action. 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Ethan Kross | Chatter: Harnessing Our Inner Dialogue

Good Life Project

1:10:31 hr | 4 months ago

Ethan Kross | Chatter: Harnessing Our Inner Dialogue

"So if you're like most people there's a certain amount of chatter that goes on in your head throughout the day but did you know that that inner dialogue can have a profound effect on nearly every aspect of your life. Today's guest ethan. Cross is one of the world's leading experts on controlling the conscious mind an award-winning professor and bestselling author in the university of michigan's top ranked psychology department. And it's ross. School of business. He studies how the conversations people have with themselves impact their health their performance their decisions and relationships earning his phd in psychology from columbia university. You think completed his postdoctoral fellowship in social effective neuro science which i asked him about kind of fascinated by that to learn about the neural systems. That support self control. He moved to the university of michigan. Two thousand where. He founded the emotion and self control laboratory and research has been published in science. The new england journal of medicine the proceedings of the national academy of science among other peer reviewed journals. He's participated in policy. Discussion at the white house has been interviewed on. Cbs evening news. Good morning america. Anderson cooper full circle. Npr's morning edition and his pioneering research has been featured in the new york times wall street journal new yorker and so many other places and he is the author of the national bestseller chatter. The voice in our head why it matters and how to harness it so excited to share this conversation with you. I'm donovan fields. And this is good life project. Go project is supported by knits. We'd so are you still running your business on slow software don't spend time dealing with manual processes multiple sessions delays and scrambling to get the numbers. You need net suite by oracle says it's time to get on solid ground so nets we is the scalable solution to run all of your key back office operations no matter how big your company grows net week gives you visibility and control over your financial inventory h. r. e. commerce and more everything you need to grow is all in one place nets helps you automate your key business processes and close your books in a fraction of the time and right now net suite is offering a one of the kind financing program only for those ready to graduate to net sweet gutu net sweet dot com slash. Good life that's necessary dot com slash. Good life nets. We dot com slash. Good project is supported by true bills. Quick question for you. How many subscriptions you paying for a month to even know the truth is eighty percent of people have subscriptions they have forgotten about and could be paying for when you don't even use them we'll chew. Bill is the smartest way to manage your finances. They're easy to use app. Lets you create monthly budget and expenses review recurring charges and cancel subscriptions directly through the app over a million users have used true bill to save more than fifty million dollars. It's time to feel good about your finances. The average person saves seven hundred twenty dollars per year with two bill so get started today at true bill com slash. Good life take control of your finances and start saving at true bill. Dot com slash. Good life that's true. Bell dot com slash good latin. So i kinda wanna start off in a bit of a direction. I want to go deep into the world of inner voice and chatter and and how that works with against sometimes. But you run a lab built around emotion and self control which i'm fascinated by. You've a background in psychology neuroscience and sort of the way those two things interplay so i have to ask you about something else because they have this opportunity to ask you about it and it take us down an entire different like dark dark place Ego depletion Earn titus was in one thousand nine or so and they finally come out with the original work. it's a replicated thousands of time. This whole idea that you know we have a limited supply of willpower and that You know it can get depleted and it it sort of the law of the land for a couple of decades and then a couple of years ago people started saying. Maybe that's actually not true. Maybe this thing called willpower self-regulation. It's not necessarily this depletable resource and the research is really kind of more all over the place. I'm curious what your thoughts are on it while so i don't think it's nearly that cut and dry. I don't think we've been able to pinpoint a particular resource that exists. That goes down over time Instead what we do know. And i think a lot of this actually comes from the cognitive neuroscience literature more so than even social site is that we do have a limited amount of attention executive resources. Lots of different phrases to refer to sensibly similar processes that involve carefully attending to something to bring a goal to light. So there's there's a lot of evidence that we possess the ability to directly attend to something to focus. Intently is a limited resource. That can wayne the more we use it but we also know that there's flexibility. There's a lot of latitude around how we use that resource. So for example. It's pot. yeah. I can get more tired after focusing really hard on a difficult problem and may be less inclined to exert self control but i can also easily reframe how. I'm thinking about the experience. In that moment that i'm fatigued and then exert control effectively and that's been shown empirically in in many studies. Greg walton gerald wack and veronica. Job have some great papers on this topic and so is there something to the idea that when we do something effort full be depleting. Yeah i think there is something to that idea but is self control this based on this one resource. That goes down all the time. No i think that's not the case and you know the sidebar on the depletion phenomenon to is a lot of the lot of the discussion around that has had to do with the methods that have been used to test that over time and i don't think we need to go down that path but in the cognitive literature there's a lot of work showing that our executive functions their effort full to use those functions. And so so the more we use them the more difficulty. We have continuing to do so. But we we still can motivate ourselves to engage. And that's i think the critical piece that was lost in much of the discussion surrounding depletion. The idea that even if you are feeling tired as the day goes on and exert yourself throughout the day that's not deterministic in the sense that no that you can't control yourself at night no way like you. Can you can certainly muster the resources if you motivated to do so. So that's my take on that phenomenon. Yeah i mean it was interesting. Also because when when i saw a lot of the pushback out which i think is probably four or five years ago now sort of all the dust started to get shaken up in a lot of the talk was about the methodologies that you were speaking about but also this notion that it was potentially a lot more dependent on whether you believed was depletable are not so literally like if you believe that it was this renewable resource. You essentially just tap back into it. You are good. But we didn't believe that then you were in and i was fascinated if that would whether i actually was certainly reading that right. Yeah and that's actually the work that i referred to earlier by walton and jobs beautiful work. I love those papers and it's a good segue into talking about what self-control is at least in my eyes because if you take my definition face value then i think those findings make a great deal of sense so i think of self control as having to I what self control is arts. Our ability to align our thoughts feelings and behaviors with our goals. So got goals. And how do we bring those goals to light and it has to there. Two key pieces motivation and ability. Right some motivation. Any to be motivated to exert some control right. If you're not motivated you can have all the tools in the world. You can know every technique that exists. If you're not motivated to use those tools for reason you're not gonna use them right on the flip side if you're highly motivated to do something but you don't know what the tools are to help you do that. Then you're not going to succeed. I can be intensely motivated to write a computer program this afternoon. I don't know a damn thing about how to write a computer program. I don't have the skills so you need both of those pieces in order to be effective at self control and so you know when you when you go back to some of that worth that you just you just mentioned on your mindset well if you are re framing how you're thinking about us hey self-control is is is limitless. I can do it as much as i want right. That changes your whole motivational orientation. How you approach the situation. I i can do this if i want to write but if you at the outset say this is pointless. There's no way i can do this. You're not going to be motivated to do so. So i think those findings fit really well with this this normative definition of self control. That really guides a lot of the work that i do. Yeah i love. That makes a lot of sense to me. it's interesting. You brought the relationship between motivation and ability also because it feels like also ties in with. Bj fahd's behavioral model. Which is you know. Sort of like a any behavior changes about some blend of motivation ability and some kind of trigger. What's fascinating about his work to me. Is that you know he's he. He really says that one of the biggest problems in his mind is that we tend to look at those two things and we think well the thing. We should really be focusing on his motivation. Let's flip the switch in the mind that makes you believe this is possible. I give you reasons to want to actually do it. And his lens. I now is that it's the wrong thing to focus on that. It's the much harder. Move needle to move in that in he breaks it into these three windows spot span and then sort of like long. It's easy to motivate somebody to do somebody for a heartbeat. It's harder to motivate them to keep it going for a span of time and it's nearly impossible if it's something they don't really want to do to to tell them. Make this change for life but if you if you make changes to environment skill to circumstance to their ability to do it his his lenses that's the thing that is the much bigger lever mover. I'm curious habit lands here. I think this goes back to you. Know the idea of these tiny habits and making these small changes and how those can snowball and i think. There's there's a lot to that idea. And i think his model generally motivation ability and situational triggers also scaffolds. Really nicely onto what we know about. How self-control works Based on on the science. So you know. In general i think his perspective resonates really well with me. When someone comes to me with a self control problem. I do think that sometimes it is about. It is a motivational issue. And if that's the case then we try to work on motivation. I think there are ways of enhancing people's motivation to do things for example. I coach my daughter's soccer team and she had to play goalie. She didn't want to and You know like there are ways of of motivating hershey and honestly she was on. The side are am i every goal that scored. You're gonna lose your ipad for a week. This really motivated. Now i'm joking at. She knew i was joking but but there are things we got to be clear. That was a joke. But but there are ways that we know you can push around with rewards and punishments rewards. Tend to be a lot more effective. A lot of how we develop habits has to do with rewarding certain behaviors over and over to motivate further change. So i think there are ways of intervening for motivation. But sometimes people are really motivated. Just don't have the tools. They don't have the skills. I think this is actually in my world when it comes to chatter in the inner voice. This is more often the situation right. Most of the people that i talk to their highly motivated to not experience chatter warri rumination catastrophe. It's an inverse of state. And they don't wanna be in that state of mind and so the problem there is though they don't always know what tools to use to help them modulate the chatter and so that's where a lot of the interventions focus but then there are other people who who need some help with both motivation and tools. So i think you know just understanding that self control has these different pieces can be really effective as a first step for trying to break down this problem of self control at or lack of which is a huge problem in in society right We have a lot of problems controlling our feelings controlling our thoughts controlling our behavior so once we can break it down into these little buckets. It then becomes more more tractable to engage with this problem. Yeah i love the framing. I think it's also useful to kind of zoom out and say okay. Well it's not super helpful to say that there's one model and everybody has the same challenge or struggle or invitation within. It's sort of like no you. These are the things that matter. These are the factors that we want to look at and you take each person as they come. That's right that's right and you know there are clearly like the signs that that we bring to bear that i know. Bj talks about that. I talk about and lots of others in the space. We know that these tools on average you know are more effective than other tools that we compare them against in our experiments but there's always huge variability in within any given experiment about how effective a given tool is some people find it more effective than others and i think that's a nuance that really speaks to the complexity of the human condition. That we really wanna wanna honor and and not dismiss Namely the idea that some people given their unique situations may benefit more from using certain combinations of tools than others like my wife and i by virtue of the fact that we live together and we experienced much of our lives together. We often counter very similar kinds of stress triggers chatter triggers. But we rely on different tools to manage those triggers. Like in the vent. There's a ven diagram of overlapping circles that my toolbox and hers and there's a little bit of overlap but also some differences too and recognizing that there's nothing wrong with that that we evolved the capacity to regulate ourselves to control ourselves through. Lots of different means. I think that opens up lots of possibilities. For how to help ourselves in help others that don't exist if you're trying to pin everything on one or two magical interventions and i think a lot of the zeitgeist right now and and historically has been that's identify one specific thing that people can do to control themselves exercise meditate eat well do head stands before dinner in. I making stuff up now but but we tend to look for one one single magic pill one tool. That's easy to use. And that's just not the way we work at least that's my My understanding based on based on the research. I've been with past twenty years right. It's not just one tool use. Its many and i think the the the more we can adopt that perspective the better off. We'll be completely agree with you. There i project is supportive is sunday so everybody likes to have a nice looking lawn but the work that goes into making a having can be kinda daunting especially if you're not really a one person. 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No membership text. Good life to thirty thirty thirty. You'll get full access to the entire platform all workouts nutrition information and support absolutely free. Just text good life to thirty thirty thirty. You brought up this word chatter. Which is the focus of your recent work. I want to dive into that but I think we need l. Let's go upstream a little bit and talk about Sorta like the broader term. Inner voice There's this notion that there's the voice that we speak out loud that we share with other people that we use to interact with other human beings the interpersonal. But then there's this notion that within us is this other voice. It's the intra personal voice where literally speaking to our capitals. Your or little self southlake. Somehow there's a voice in our head that is talking to only austin only we can here. I guess one of my first questions is it. And i guess this led to a little bit of a fun time on social media. Was you know. I think a lot of us if you had that voice. You just assume it's there for everybody but but is it a yes. I'm just getting all elaborate on my answer. Yeah there are a couple of there have been some explosions on social media over the last couple of years where people say i don't i don't have an inner voice. I don't talk to myself. I think part of that has to do with how people define and think about their inner voice and so the first thing. I'd like to do when i talk about. This topic is really breakdown. How scientists like myself. Think about the inner voice. What is it and at its most basic sense with the inner voice involves is is using language silently in your head so silently saying a word or set of words or sentences and we use as inner voice it it serves many different functions. It's not just one thing. And i think this is where some of the confusion lies with respect to whether we all have an inner voice. If you have the capacity to speak out loud than i would argue have the capacity to speak to yourself to and have an inner voice. So all well-functioning human minds have an inner voice and evidence of that all over one of the most basic functions it provides which is our inner voice as part of our verbal working memory system. This is a system of the mind that all well-functioning minds possess and what it involves is being able to rehearse a nugget of verbal information in your head so if you go to the grocery store and you ask us are what i have to get cheese cheese sticks milk barbecue sauce. You know. repeat whatever your favorite items are you've just use your inner voice if you're walking down the street and go over in your head repeat in your head. What's on your to do list. You've used your inner voice. Right are verbal working memory system. Vital to our ability to navigate this world when people's working memory systems. Stop working well for various reasons. Big problems in ensue. So that's fundamental to who we are as human beings at working memory system and your inner voice plays a key component in that system and i think everyone again who has the capacity to use language. Has that capability and uses their inner voice in that way now. That's not the only way in which we use her voice. We also use it to do other things. So i use it a lot. When i'm preparing for things like presentations on when you know go for a walk and rehearse the talking points about what i'm gonna say. In my head i'll simulate the presentations i'm gonna give. I'll hear other people comment on my presentation. And then i'll simulate how i'm going to respond. That's my inner voice. We use our voice to control ourselves right so sometimes you go to the fridge late at night. I'm projecting here and i say to myself already. 'then don't do it. Don't take the cake you'll regret in the morning. That's my inner voice to and finally we often use her inner voice to to make stories out of our experiences in ways that really impact how we make sense of who we are so when we experienced adversity rejections losses but trails anger. Fillon if you know filling your favorite at a aversive experience many people turn their attention inward To make sense of what just what just happened. How can i make sense of the fact that i was just rejected after working so hard on this presentation right. That's thatch jarring. When we experience those kinds of experiences in life and when they happen we usually just stop in our tracks and have to make sense of them so we could continue living on autopilot more or less and we use voice to create those stories that explain our experiences. So i think there's a lot more variability in the degree to which people use you are constantly trying to store a fi their life. There's variability how often people are using their inner voice to control themselves. And that's probably where some of this response Comes up on social media. I don't have an inner voice. I think those people are saying. I don't go over my life with this constant running inner monologue but that doesn't mean that they can't repeat the to do list in their head. That doesn't mean that they can't you know remind themselves when they're in the grocery list what they need so the inner voice is not one thing. It's a swiss army knife of the mind that lets us do many different things. Yeah i i wonder if some of the pushback was also around some sort of intrinsic negative biased against being the type of person who says i'm constantly talking to myself and my head because that's gotta be like i'm babbling and i'm not a babbler like that's not who i am. I am curious you know if using our voice service these purposes yell were doing this because it's getting us to a place where there sense making memorization a attentiveness. We do other things like we we. We use a written voice to accomplish this thing and we use a spoken voice to accomplish all of those same things. Are you aware of a difference in efficacy between those three modes. Like if i'm trying to make sense of a situation and i'm talking through in my head versus talking it out loud versus writing through. Maybe i'm journaling about it. Is there difference in in in how we land in the place. We say to land based on our choice of of those different modalities of processing yes. There's there's some there's actually a a study that actually compared those three modalities exactly to see which were more effective for helping people deal with adversity and both writing and talk. I believe talking was in the saudi definitely. Writing were more effective than thinking. What happened when people were thinking about a negative event and trying to make a story out of it is it naturally led them to ruminate about the event to get stuck in thought. Loop of the sort that. I i call chatter when they wrote about it or talked about. Ed those modalities steered people towards more of this meaning making mode where they're actually able to create a story in part of the reason why i think that happens. I think because this hasn't been shown empirically is when you're writing that that naturally like we write typically in full sentences right and we there's beginning of a story of middle and an end and when we talk to other people to in order to be coherent right we don't just pinball all over the place shit what's going to happen. Embarrassed terrible which is often how we think we often think in these small bursts of activity. Inner speech can often come in a very condensed form. Almost like the verbal equivalent of taking notes in shorthand. And when you're talking to other people you can't talk like that or even talking out loud because you wouldn't make any sense same thing with writing and so talking out loud and writing helps us actually craft stories in ways of thinking doesn't always allow us to do so i think there is benefit to those other modalities when dealing with adversity. Yeah that's so fascinating to me I think about practices like julia cameron's like famous morning pages. At millions of people do the wake up first thing in the morning they bang out three pages of But but the instructions are very specific which is do not try and make this coherent. They'll literally just open your mind. Pick up a pen or pencil and go and assume that nobody on the planet will ever will ever see this other than you and it's even not even for you to go back to and judge try and refine this is just process and get it. It's an exorcism you more than anything else. Well but i think you know. The sheer act of writing puts a structure. Like there's a there's a structure that you're adhering to like your writing. I guess most people in this country were writing. English are still writing from left to right. You know more or less on a straight line. They're not writing up and down right. They're using like subject verb nat like. There's a basic structure to it that that writing naturally imposes on how we organize our thoughts like think about how much experience we have writing right. When we teach kids to write a very young age we teach them how to write coherently. And that's typically the way you do it even when you're texting in using these emoticons at drive me crazy nowadays because i'm not very skilled with them you're still there's there's a coherent it's communicable to someone else. And so i think the moment you put someone into that framework. You're essentially queuing up the template for for talking about something or a writing about it in a coherent manner. You know actually a lot of work. there's been a lot of work on expressive writing over the years that has been shown to be useful for helping people deal with adversity. And actually the instructions. There are are very similar to what you just described. Really let yourself go right about your deepest thoughts and feelings. Don't pay attention to grammar and spelling. Just just get it out and you find happening first of all. We've done some of these studies in my lab. People are writing coherent essays. Right you also find that over time. They tend to shift in coherence. They improve like in terms of their narrative quality. So you're getting even more you're making more connections and showing more evidence of insight as you move along but even at the beginning they're still interpret -able and we we've done other studies where we we get these thought records of what streaming through people's heads indifference when they're in different states when they're in a chatter filled state as one example versus a more adaptive reflective state in another when people overcome a chatter. Their thoughts are often really hard to make sense of. You know one subject. I remember writing something to the effect of when we asked them. We have some to recall and work through an experience that made them feel really upset a time when they were really overwhelmed with anger stability and there s a red like angry upset victimized. Shane stepped on shit on humiliated. Aband- pushed worst experience ever. It was just this kind of machine gun firing of negative emotion. You know there was no attempt to store a fighter make meaning out of it and then you look in the more deliberate reflective conditions and their people are well. I was rejected by someone a really cared about. But i probably did deserve it because i did do something. Bad and in the grand scheme of things will be other situations so that was much more story like so long winded way of saying i think writing impart is useful because it helps us create those coherent stories which lots of research show are essential for helping us live good lives that are are not Lives filled with chatter that That lands is absolutely true with me. I remember hearing The author neil gaiman actually writes all of his All of his novels longhand with a fountain pen one of the reasons he does. It is because he knows he can't stop writing for very more than a couple of seconds because the ink is a little bit sticky on the tip so it forces him to his creative output is different when he's writing longhand versus typing on a computer but also it forces him into a cadence that he's not in control of and he knows he just has to keep going Preserves it there's a literal physical constraint on his ability to slow down which changes the nature of what comes out. Which i think is kind of fascinating. I love that. It is fascinating. And i don't know research that speaks us. I'm just riffing here. But it certainly slows you down making you more reflective. I find that sometimes. Depending on where i am in the writing process being able to go fast versus slow has different benefits of sometimes like when i i thought i'll sometimes just grabbed my tape recorder and just record it because i just need to get it out before i forget it and my mind sadly is like a sieve nowadays after two kids and lots of other stuff and so i'll lose it so i'll just frantically grab like recorded or scribble down some notes just so i could come back and elaborate on it but at other times Going slow in writing things down can be very very helpful so i suspect impart in in. This would be really useful for writers of any industry. If you knew when it's useful for you to to get things down quick versus it's useful to go slow. You can then use the technology that helps facilitate that that might be helpful for productivity. Yeah that would be really interesting It's funny that you mentioned like the the way that ideas come to you and you like madly just try and get them somehow memorialize. I'm big zach. Same way because they're gone three seconds later i'm a longtime meditators and very often. These theoretically amazing ideas dropping to my orbit went up in the middle of meditation and remember years ago teacher of mine saying if they're really worth pursuing they'll come back after the meditation don't stop. Don't write them down to moralism they'll come back in the new yorker kind of like really really. Because i've had a lot of ideas in the moment. I thought were really really good and i have by the invitation. They were gone and they have never come back. Yeah i you know. I think it depends on what you're prioritizing there whether whether it's peace of mind through meditation or or your next pulitzer or you know i've been known to to sometimes to my wife and and children's embarrassment you know. Be walking around the neighborhood with a like a little notebook. Sometimes i'll just stop in the middle of the street and just scribbled down all dude am. I can't lose the idea you know or or even like leave. Leave a voicemail to myself with with the idea. So yeah i'm right there with you. I have a lot of voice. Memos had been recorded in the middle of the street in dangerous to. Yeah yeah you brought up. This work chatter a bunch of times. Now which is different. Or maybe it's a subset of the sort of like the bigger notion of inner voice What are we actually talking about. When we're talking about chatter so when we're talking about chatter talking about the dark side the dark manifestation of inner voice and. I don't want to be clear that i hope to have already explained. Does a lot of good for us. You know when people tell me will just get rid of that inner voice. i want. Silence it my initial response is you wouldn't want to do that. In fact there are. There are case studies in which that's that's happened. I talk about one of them in my book where a person experienced a stroke lost her ability to use language temporarily. Initially described experiences. Euphoric because she no longer worried in ruminated but shortly after that found it completely disorienting because once inner voice left her assaulted her ability to make sense of her experiences life and who she was and she couldn't her working memory system was gone. She couldn't do the most basic things. Like remember what to do in the grocery store and so forth and so on so inner voice on the whole really good for us in important tool that you wouldn't wanna live without as many listeners will no doubt relate to at times when we try to use this tool it seems like it backfires on us we experience adverse events. We go inside to try to make sense of them with language. And we end up ruminating about the past instead or worrying about the future or catastrophes ing the common thread that runs across those different states. Rumination worry catastrophes ation is that we're getting stuck in a negative thought loop his goal. We're trying to make sense of an experience. But we're not progressing. We're not succeeding and that in turn has a really negative effect on our ability to perform at can negatively influence our relationships and our health and that is the phenomenon that i call chatter. I use that term chatter capture. Getting stuck in negative thought loop sometimes about the past sometimes about what's happening in the moment. Sometimes it's about the future but the common theme is we're trying to make sense of something but we're not progressing and i think it is you know with out without trying to exaggerate at all one of the big problems we face as a species i think the research documenting the negative effects of chatter in the domains that i just mentioned thinking and performance relationships in health it's astounding how consequential chatter can be for those different domains of life which just happened to be three domains of life that i think make life worth living from any of us and so trying to understand how people can manage chatter. Is i think a really important question. It's it's what i've been doing for the past twenty years. I want to dive into those three domains but before we get there. There's of a question that's floating my head. Which is chatter. Changing or is the rate of chatter. Changing You and i guess my curiosity is you know. There's the rate of so much the rate of information the rate of Exposure to all sorts of different things exceleron dramatically and has been over the last decade or so You know we are bombarded with so much we are constantly connected so the through put the input is has gone up exponentially annika some wondering and i don't even know if there's a way to measure it or if you've done the research on it whether there is an understanding of whether the the level of the volume the frequency the rate of acceleration of chatter is changing in a meaningful way in or an negative way. Well i can partially answer that question. And so i can answer it with respect to the pandemic that we're not going through and we know that chatter in the form of anxiety and depression and we know that chatter factors very promptly in those conditions has has increased exponentially over the course of the pandemic thirty something percent increases last. I checked which makes sense right because abnormal situations call for normal responses. So we're definitely seen elevation there with respect to whether societal changes and changes in technology like the advent of social media have increased the frequency of chatter. That's a more difficult question to answer. What we know is that social media has has certainly provided us with more opportunities to have our chatter triggered and triggered and others. But at the same time it's also provided us with new opportunities to help other people with their chatter and to get help. So you know. I've been studying. Social media affects on wellbeing. And how chatter factors into this for over ten years now. Really since social media came into play and there's been a real evolution in the way. That both i in the field i think i say the field. Think about it early on there were many people who thought social media was defacto toxic. It just had consistent negative effects for your well being so just stay away. What we've learned is that that is not true. It really depends on on how you use it on who uses it and so forth. What we know is that on the one hand social media provides us with giant megaphone for our inner voice. And i think that's just fascinating right like if you log into facebook. It says what is on your mind. It's essentially prompting you to share your thoughts and feelings. I i like to joke to people that like one day. We may have the technology to listen in to order voice. I mean you know fifty hundred years from now. I would hate to be a subject in that study. I don't want anyone listening in on my inner voice right like you know the stuff that comes up here. That's for me to know. And no one else unless i choose to share with them but but this technology is really kind of encouraging us to share those inner thoughts and feelings on the one hand. I think what we're seeing. Is it can doing that. Can lead to chatter and others because one of the things that social media allows us to do is is the way we present ourselves to others right presenting these photoshop lives and and really sweetie posts. That can make other people at times. Feel insecure about themselves leading Excites envy about how. Their lives are deficient by comparison We know that that social media makes it easy to express our frustrations with others in ways. Ekka manifest in the form of cyberbullying and trolling which are really societal. Ills i mean the harmful effects that those behaviors are having and others as quite astounding. It also can have nicknamed engaging. Those behaviors can have negative effects for the perpetrators as well in terms of our reputation. So so that's dark side That is certainly linked to you. Know lots of chatter chatter chatter but on the flip side. You know it's remarkable how social media can corral resources right. If you've got a network and you really need help you could get out from thousands of people or tens of thousands or more right by a push of a button and so there's evidence that many people's networks are supportive and can help them so so. I think it's a very mixed bag. And for that reason it's hard to know if at least technological shift in the form. Social media's accelerating chatter or accelerating the rate at which we manage it effectively and the next ten years. It can be really exciting as we continue to do research on it. I love the idea of certainly the evolution of thought around the technology in the platforms. Because i i remember you know was probably about Seven or eight years ago This really big study came out. And basically said the year that you know the use of the that that smartphones came out and social platforms became. There were mass adopted The at depression skyrocketed and kids. And since then there's been a lot more much more nuanced parsing of that data you know and and like you said also sank. Yes there are things that we need to look at it and be concerned about and at the same time. Let's look at what this is giving us to the channel for expression in connection and all these other things. Yeah i think You know it is fascinating to me. How sort of our evolution of thought is around not just the technology but nearly what is our responsibility in the context of how you use it and relate to it or get used by it. Well know i think two points here. number one. I think this is the beauty of science and how it evolves right and and we do studies we interpret the results and then we do we build on those studies and we learn new things which allow us to revise our opinions And our appraisals of of how things work. I think that's that's just programmatic science. And that's that's what that's science at. Its best but you know this other. The other complicating factor. Here with social media is that social media actually isn't one thing every platforms different and the platforms. Themselves are evolving. So i've often compared social media to the offline world off and say is social media gooder. Bagwell it's an environment and new kind of environment environments aren't good and bad good or bad depends on how you engage those environments so in the offline world if you go into the wrong neighborhoods and do the wrong things in big trouble to go on the right neighborhoods and you act right way with the right people that benefits you at a broad level. That's also true of social media with one important difference every social media platform if the people who were in charge of the algorithms that govern that how platform work choose to do so with a few finger strokes. Maybe i'm simplifying. I don't know how to code. Maybe it's a lot of finger strokes but they can actually change the dimensions of this environment in a certain sense if they wanted to they could essentially reverse gravity right by few finger strokes and that makes it really tricky for us to study social media because it's constantly changing. It's a moving target and you know zuckerberg and facebook leadership. If they discover something is in helping people right they could change that really quick and then see all. Was that making a difference or go in the opposite direction. And so i think that also is in part. Why really developing these science based insights this blueprint. Here's how to use social media to make it work for you rather than against you. It's not such an easy thing to do but we are making progress. Yeah it's that old line. I think in the world of tech and social media. You're not paying your the product and you know and whoever surly the middle person are making. The money is going to manipulate your behavior. Not for your own benefit. Not for the benefit of society but to optimize shareholder value dopp mazar around revenue. So and we're sort of like caught in the middle that i think we're waking up to that to a large extent also and people being more intentional project is supported by five so we worked as a remote team for years here at good life project which means that i know just how tough it can be to keep everybody on the same page and the damage and frustration. It can cause when freelancers are not looped in with what we're doing and our ethos it super important to be able to work with a team of vetted all star freelancers. That is exactly what you get with five or business so fiber business is a simple way to set up your business for success and a big win for productivity and collaboration. They make it easy to access the talent. You need with their team of dedicated business. Success managers matching you with the best people for your brand refresh product launch or investor. Pitch we've worked with five are on and off for years now and we've been really pleased with the work every time right now. We're working with an awesome motion graphics. Freelancer to create instagram rails at highlight our podcast episodes and it's been such an enjoyable experience. The work quality is great. That communication is quick is a must when it comes to remote were plus. The platform is so easy to navigate and clear about what has have been submitted. What the prices for the work and what all is involved collaborating online hasn't been this easy since while ever and right now you can sign up for five or business absolutely free for the first year. Get one free year and save ten percent on your purchase on five or business with promo code. Good life just go to five dot com slash business. that's f. I v. e. r. r. dot com slash business or. Click the link in the show notes. And don't forget to use the promo code good life. You mentioned these three buckets. We've been talking about chatter and how it at an how it relates to social media and technology and then ties into one of those buckets physical and mental health chatter in general. Though when you talk about you know how that sort of cyclical negative spinning in your head. More broadly relates to well being. I think a lot of people can make the connection between mental health Between things -iety and depression okay. So if you're constantly spinning you get into this anxious state. Maybe even obsessive compulsive at the extremes of the spectrum is there also a similar connection to actual to physiological wellbeing. I mean. I know there is through the modality at least of your mind. And your body are not disconnected. They're seamless feedback mechanism. But does he go beyond that It it absolutely does go beyond it So we know that chatter can have negative physical health implications and impart how it does so is it. Prolongs are stress response so we often hear that stress kills. That's not exactly true The stress response evolved the capacity to have this response for a reason serves a vital function when we're in the presence of a threat the ability to respond very quickly fighter. Flee good good thing what makes stress toxic is when that response becomes prolong and. That's precisely what chatter does because we experiencing negative in our lives and we don't leave behind we then after the experience has ended after. I've gotten the rejection letter on my last paper or after i've been insulted in the car i think about that event over and over and over again and thinking about that event keeps it active in our mind as well as the corresponding physiological response that is associated with it so that prolonged stress response in turn predicts things like cardiovascular disease problems of inflammation even certain forms of cancer There's often there's also some work now. Even showing that chatterly crime stress can alter the way our genes are expressed turning on genes. That are involved in inflammatory responses and turning off genes involved in fighting off viruses so even at the genetic level at the epi genetic level. We're seeing effects of chatter. So i'm hesitant to say it's not all in the mind because i'm a. I believe that the mind is grounded in the body and in the brain but what we know is that the effects extend beneath your shoulders into every corner of your body in ways that can have really consequential negative physical health and so so that again is why one of the reasons why i think this is such a such a huge problem. I mean what's what's fascinating about what you just shared also To me in particular is the notion that the level of chatter can potentially affect your epigenetics state which is effectively for those listening. It's whether certain genes are activated or not and if it's a gene or a state that leads inflammation or disease and that becomes sorta like effectively turned on. That's a bad thing. And then what spins through. My mind is the more recent research that shows that not just genetics. Epigenetics states may be heritable. Your then if you start to project out and maybe that's a bad thing to do if you're prone to chatter because you're like wait a minute. My chatter is potentially not only causing inflammation illness disease in me but that propensity may then be passed on to children and their children right On the one hand it probably freaks you out even more but on the other hand maybe that actually goes all the way back to the beginning of conversation about well. Maybe that goes into the stack of motivation. That lets you say. Let me figure this out while you know like so many things. It really depends on how you how you frame the situation. I am a huge advocate of option b. Which is to say okay. We recognize what the stakes are. But there's really really good news which is at the same time that we've we've evolved to be able to. You know to have this chatter like response. We've also evolved to possess a boatload of different tools that we can use to manage it. And so you know one thing. I like to tell people is if you experienced chatter. Congratulations welcome to the human condition. Most of us two times. And just because you experienced chatter does not mean clinically anxious or depressed. Those extreme manifestations of chatter but most normal healthy individuals experienced chatter in small to moderate doses at various points in their life. That's okay an and you know experiencing small blips of chatter aren't necessarily gonna predict you know developing these physical ills because we have so many tools that we can use to nip it in the bud when it strikes and regain the ability to manager inner voice and so So that's why. I chose to spend one chapter of the book talking about the negative stuff and i think six talking about tools because i think that is really where much of the action is and most of the opportunity surrounding eight. Genetic about being proactive in a revolve around these tools with respect to how to manage our chatter. Let's talk about a few of those tools. Also there's a lot of them as as you mentioned and you dive into a whole bunch of them. One of the approaches is something I characterize it wrong but effectively creating psychological distance. Tell me more about this boy. You've characterized perfectly so when we experience chatter. We often zoom in on our problem. Tunnel vision. were focusing explicit. What happened what we felt. What's going wrong. And we lose sight of the bigger picture. And so what we've learned is one natural antidote to that state is to pull people back to have him step back from the immediacy of what their experience that they could focus on the big picture and and develop alternative ways of thinking about what they're going through that ultimately help them feel better the real world example. I like people to think about to really drive home. The power of distance for helping people manage situations is to ask them to think about a time when a friend or a loved. One came to them with a problem that they were spending about chatter chatter. Chatter can't get through it. They don't know what to do. They come to you for advice and when they present the problem to you. It's relatively easy for you to give them advice to weigh in and coach them. When i posed when i when i posed that scenario to audiences and ask. Has anyone ever experienced this consistently every hand in the audience goes out right very powerful response. The reason why it's so easy for you as the friend wayne problems because that happening to you have some psychological distance from that experience. And you could bring your this this wonderful gorgeous brain you have to bear in all of its capacity to weigh in on the problem and come up with a solution. We often lack that distance when we're experiencing chatter but what we've learned is that there are many different things you can do to regain it. And so that that characterizes one set of tools that people can use when they're experiencing chatter took to make that more concrete one tool that you can use. Is something called distant self talk and involves using your name or the second person pronoun you to coach yourself to a problem. So if i'm spending oversight ethan. How are you going to manage this situation. Here's what you need to do if you think about. When we use names and second person pronouns we typically use those parts of speech when we think about an referred to other people a very tight link between a name and thinking about someone else someone who's distant from us as what we've learned. Is that when people use their own names to work through their problems it virtually automatically shift their perspective. It puts them into this. It activates the neural machinery. Involved in thinking about other people and it puts us into this coach mode that is much more constructive and when we're trying to work through problem in the first person so that's one thing that people can do. I would advise that if they do at though that they should do it silently or if they feel the need to really do it out loud while walking down the streets of their neighborhood to make sure that they have a pair of airpods in their ears. Looks like the are on the phone call. That's right it's just think that same thing Regina on a couple years back and she she described something which is similar but different She it's sort of like lived with his voice nonstop in her head and tons and tons of chatter. She gave a different name. It was like the crazy aunt and the attic like that and she. She created a character out of the voice of the chatter. That was not her and then would have these conversations with that person. That's distancing right there said another manifestation of it and in fact one of the one of the experience that i found so interesting while researching the book and you know. I talked a lot about that voice in their head and interestingly enough just as an aside like i interviewed c. level executives starbucks baristas and everyone in between and outside those distinctions. And they all you know resonated with this experience many of them spontaneously. They didn't know why had named the voice in their head. I heard things like Itty-bitty shitty committee A arianna huffington. I think said The obnoxious roommate in my head. I saw an interview with her. One of my favorites was someone who named their their chatter. Marvin just marvin doesn't sound like a nice nice person in there and those are in fact you know it's not me right and if it's not me i can engage with the differently. So that's that's just one kind of distancing tool that exists and. I really want to emphasize that. Because i think it is fascinating. How many different tools. We have like just to give you one. Other example of probably ten or twelve distancing tools Something a tool that. I've relied on a lot during the pandemic is is something that is technically called temporal distancing but i caught mental time travel. So when you're dealing with an acute care and your zoomed in on the awfulness of it. Oh my god i'm still at home. I can't exercise. My kids are doing zoom sessions at my ankles all these negative things. It's easy to get filled with chatter. In those circumstances what. I would often do think about how i would feel six months from now when i vaccinated traveling again when i'm seeing friends and when i engage in that mental time travel would it made it clear was when i got some distance by travelling in time from the moment he made it clear. That what. I'm going through as awful as it is. It's temporary it's eventually gonna pass. And that gave me a sense of hope which we know is really powerful for managing chatter. So i saw a mental time child into the future. To get some distance to broaden my perspective. I also traveled into the past. I thought of the the last rape pandemic we experience nineteen eighteen. I think it was. It was nineteen. I think so. Yeah and and my god like as bad as things are now they were even worse back. Then you know the death rate was higher knows. Zoom not take out you know lots lots more adversity and guess what we got through that make roaring back and so we'll get through this. It's another very simple mental shift that a person can engage in when they're when they find themselves experiencing chatter that has the potential to provide them with relief. So what's engine is a lot of tools that you some of the shows you just talked about and also a lot of the broader set of tools that you've explored and i'm sure there are so many others also that we can just adapt individually when i zoomed the lens out and i was thinking about them as so sort of a coherent toolbox surfing myself. You know these sound a lot like the the identical tolls that you see us day in day out in cognitive behavioral therapy which made me wonder. Is it just that. These tools tend to be effective in a broad array of experiences and circumstances or is that one of the fundamental drivers of so much of what manifest as systems that would lead people to seek. Therapy is chatter. Or is it just yes end well so we do know number one that the chatter is what we call. Trans diagnostic factor. That predicts many different kinds of Mood disorders like Various kinds of forms of anxiety depression so does cut across many different kinds of debilitating conditions. It's not the same. It's not a synonymous with depression but certainly propels. Those states and so there is a grain of truth to that with respect to the overlap between these tools and things happening and cognitive therapy or or even third wave forms of cognitive therapy. Like mindfulness based therapy on the one hand. There is some overlap on the other hand. There's some not overlap to As an example you know like some of the language stuff really hasn't factored into two cognitive therapy historically but certainly thought disputation and recognizing thorough turn of ways of thinking about it. Those definitely have aaron beck who is one of the founders of cognitive therapy back in the seventies actually talked about distancing as being one of the active ingredients that allows for a client to make change to actually improve. But something interesting happened. After he wrote that article seventies which is people. Stop talking about distancing and in fact for a long time. People thought of distancing as antithetical to good coping because the idea of distancing became acquainted with the idea of avoidance with not focus on your feelings. And so like when i started doing work on distancing people thought i was proposing something harmful like. Why would you tell person to distance. We know you have to engage with your emotions and the key pointed to to keep in mind with these distancing strategies. Were often having people step back in order to then approach and make sense of their feelings. We're not having them step back to avoid thinking about them. That's not a good thing right. That's something bad so there's nuance to how all this works. But there are certainly lots of individual tools in ct. That i think you don't have to be clinically anxious or depressed to be able to benefit from and i think the we can do to identify. What are these with pinpoint precision these tools that we can use to manage inner voice and give those the people the better off. We're going to be for helping people and society. It occurs me. Also you know one in the really big things is. We've got to be aware of the tools he never we kind of. We need to know they exist and then be no at least what some are you know so we can start to deepen into and find more but there's another there's another thing we can't actually use the tools until we become self aware enough that we actually we know in. We're in the grips of chatter. We can actually understand like like. Oh let museum the lens out for a moment. Oh i'm spinning. That's exactly right. And that's sort of like a a meta skill that we need because we can access the tools until we actually understand a word a moment where we need them. Yeah and i said so. That's where i think just having an understanding of what chatter is being able to define it and recognize once. oh i'm experiencing chatter. That's not a recognition. That is obvious to a lot of people being able to put a label on it. In that way as i think in of itself quite useful the moment so people ask me all the time experience chatter as a. Yeah i experienced a human being. And i come from new york city. It's like predestined that. I experienced chatter right. Of course i do at times and they asked me. Do i use the tools that i talk about. An i emphatically do use many of those shows them. Because i have my favorites. What i've become really good at over. The years is a recognizing the moment. I start slipping into chatter. And in the instance that i find myself slipping into it i rapidly. Take that chatter fighting. Cocktail that i have at my disposal non alcoholic and it's the tools there are like four or five tools that i will instantly deploy and usually they're quite effective at at nipping. It in the bud. So so you know. That's exactly the two step process that you're describing being able to know what chatter is and practicing recognizing it and then making the conscious intention making this specific plan. If i find myself experiencing chatter then i will use the tools in my repertoire and doing some self experimentation we. We've talked about tools. But as i've said for lots of others and some of them don't involve things you do on your own but rather they involve other people or actually are physical environments and so. There's a really broad repertoire out there tools that exist and you know. I think what science has done really. Well is profile individual tools. We've identified specific tools. We've studied how they were. What are the mechanisms that explain how they work but what we are only beginning to do is study how those tools come together in daily life in different combinations to help people and whether the combinations of tools that help you different from those that helped me and so while we wait for science to give us answers to those questions. I think there's an opportunity for people who are listening or reading to do some self experimentation to try out these different tools and if they serve you well continue using them and if they don't serve you well don't use them anymore being so much sense to me i am A a a daily meditative for over a decade now. I've noticed that one of the not immediate but long term benefits has been being able to more quickly recognize where my attention is what what is happening inside of my head so that i can step into a place of agency so i can harness whatever tools are available to me sooner So that i can. It's also like because my practice is mindfulness. It's a practice of dropping as much as a practice of focusing which keeps training every single day in. Okay that's not the constructive place. Let's let that go and then it comes back with thousand times but that practice over years it gets you get better and better and it happens. Faster and faster doesn't eliminate the chatter but it and being you know in becoming aware of when you're in it when it's rising up and then in intervening more quickly which i found like. That's this it really interesting. Single practice that i feel actually gives you multiple skills and tools. Yeah at you know. There's there's an important distinction that i think comes across from what comes out of what you're saying that i think is important for people to be aware of an certainly distinction that has helped me which is the following. We don't possess the ability to control the thoughts pop into our head. I don't know of any research that provides us with tools that can prevent does from experiencing certain thoughts. I don't know that we even know why we experience. Certain thoughts that just pop in our head. So we can't control the thoughts pop into our head but we can control how we engage with those thoughts whether we elaborate on them whether we drop them as you're describing whether we do any number of different things to to manage them and the reason i like to convey that to people is a. I think a lot of people students that like have taken my classes over the years on self-control. I've often asked them so. Let's say you know it's it's ten o'clock at night you're in the pantry and and you really want the oreo cookie but you decide not to take it. Have you been successful itself control and some of them say yes but a lot of them say no because the fact that the experience temptation in the first place that's evidence of not succeeding and my response to those students is if that's your definition of self control. Your your bar for being effective is really really high. Because i don't know that you're ever going to be able to manage those tempting thoughts that pop up in your head or those dark thoughts you know but what we can manage is how you manage them so i think that just an important additional distinction that can be useful for understanding how the mind works and maybe also Not being so charred on ourselves if we find ourselves experiencing thoughts. That aren't necessarily ones that we are proud of or or like. The forgiveness is a is a part of all of this. I think Feels a good place for us to come full circle in our conversation as well so sitting here in this container of your life project. If i offer up the phrase to live a good life what comes up engage with other people give to other people. Learn how to manage your chatter and indulge every now and again thank you. Hey before you leave. If you love this conversation a safe bet you will also love the conversation that we had with adam grant about the value of not getting to dug in on. You're thinking you'll find a link to adams episode in the show notes. Even if you don't listen now be sure to click and download so it's ready to play when you're on the go and of course if you haven't already done so be sure to follow good life project in your favorite listening app so you'll never miss an episode and then share the good life project love with friends because when ideas become conversations that lead to action that is when real change takes. Hold see you next time

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From Mount Pleasant to Ann Arbor

Attack Each Day: The Harbaughs' Podcast

56:29 min | 2 years ago

From Mount Pleasant to Ann Arbor

"Thank you for listening to this podcast one sports net production available on apple podcast and podcast one he's currently the head football coach of the university of michigan wolverines at a former player his dad and brother are also former players and coaches with derek mortar them then just split ball inside the talk about attacking life each day with enthusiasm unknown demand kind this this attack each day the harbaugh's podcast we've jim harbaugh hello everybody and welcome to another edition of attack each day the harbaugh's podcast ira wine shop here guide you through another edition of the podcast coming up in just a little bit one of the newest members of michigan football program mike dana dana a graduate transfer from central michigan joins us here on the podcast later on doug inaki it big time helped the michigan football program the right hand per ward manual he'll join us here on the podcast as well and then later on jack talk with a little infusion of john talk talk some words from john harbaugh here on the show a reminder subscribe to us on apple podcast you can listen by the podcast one app or on podcast one dot com and please follow some contact us on twitter at eighty podcast or using hashtag jack talk it's a privilege to welcome one of the newest members the michigan football program to the podcast you attack each day the harbaugh's podcast mike dana transfer came in joined us from central michigan the grad transfer data bolster that defensive line mike well the podcast looking at her back you've earned seven so coach you obviously went out you're looking additional parts of the roster what stood out to bring into the fold seventy s his play he is one of the top defensive ends in college football last year a his numbers i'm pro football focus for a were outstanding in and then a sean more who had been a tight end coach at central michigan the previous year raved about michael and a as he a he decided it was making his decision when he decided he was gonna go play college football again in that come out the draft and then he was a looking at what his options were then we we throw her hat in the ring in the new is good we really did ira but a it's a pleasure to introduce them to the michigan fans because he's doing better than advertised touched a is a is work ethic has been outstanding it'd be he cares himself a like he's on a mission to make michigan great and make himself great that it's been noticed by everybody on the team and the coaching staff the workouts i mean he's a he's a dude as don brown would say a moving exceptionally well which we really thought a but then there's been some of the sled work and some of the things we come up in an end physically punching hit a you know he's got a lot of power morton we mourn and we thought a so it's a he sees a under promising and over delivering right now so very excited about michael bennett is you're scouting report on what do you think i said all i think you hit the nail right on the head you know i pride myself on being a hard worker and that's been since day one since the first time i stepped on a fill in high school i pride myself on being a hard work and separate myself and unpack whether it's in the classroom in a way room also still on the field so i pride myself on being a hard worker is paying a local guy from detroit warranty the south where you're high school ball will let you in the initial process back a few years ago legit central oh well they offered me my spring semester my junior year and i ended up that was my only offer so i ended up breaking my leg my first game my senior season and central stuck with a lot of schools backed off me and they wrote it out with me and i end up going the central put together a really nice career there had an opportunity to be do the grad transfer thing or maybe look to go professionally what you remind what were the that decision making process way any of that the the two sides of that equation really i just thought that like one more year college football with a pit like the icing on the cake i knew i had a real good season last year in dallas capable of leaving by this new kind of like sort of back of my head that one more season a very good program anniversary procedures program would put the icing on the cake and just blow the roof off you know so in michigan came in and they said hey as coach that they throw their hat in the ring and i wanna bring you in here what were your impressions of michigan how long did that process take it wasn't a very long process you know i was always a dream of mine play college football and university of michigan so you know someone's they came knocking at the door as pretty much already so like my hat my eggs are all in one basket michigan came so you it's a pleasure to be here is on and a beer i guess i'm gonna continue to do what i do is being a hard worker you also michael said you know i've always believed from my playing days and through my coaching days is well is is there'll be a time if you're good enough to play in the nfl but take every last opportunity you have to improve yourself to get to get to be as good as you could possibly be you know before you have to go make that competitive step because it it's a big one you know an you wanna be at your absolute best so when i i didn't really considered after my fourth year of i'm coming back american i could get better egging i can improve as a player but just resonates in the way the way michael said that i also like any opportunity you can give someone else the maybe pay for another year college education 'cause right coaches not just improving on the field in in the weight room but also in the classroom is it'd be a grad student now so what you're up to wrestle masters of social work what led you in that direction a lotta guys on the team actually on did that and also the whole deal of being a social workers kinda like working within the community an always i wanna go back to the community not always been margot just finding a way to give back you know a community you gave me a lot and i feel like a plant time you gotta give back to the younger one or two that other person you know enter so true wilson would have been a he's a he's a year younger than you right so a but you guys teammates at new deals out there have you what have you thought of his progress you know you look at him he's the starting running back right now is that something you you envision while i mean since high school boys been able to run the ball and hit his head on the goalposts so you know a beast is abuse you know in his colleague i mean his high school career really shows it like he did what he did on the field high school and made a name for himself and it wouldn't have said is not surprising me now that he's doing what he's doing right now and making a name for himself he's a hard worker he put his nose down grind last year he is is speed is has really improved in coach herbert the strength that staff did it unbelievable job that's something that was important to him that he identify where he wants to improve and then a strike staff matching that and helping him the in a year it's it's noticeably different what a which video impresses of the strength staff so far michael 'em it's been excellent on my love the workouts you know we work on primary muscles now will going like just the little muscles you know i walk out the gym everyday feeling like i'm locker room to wall you know i gotta i gotta go palm paying every time i go there the strength coaches whole just a high standard and everybody x t bone high standards everybody hold each other accountable goto so everybody wanna work hard everybody got that mentality that you wanna be the best and be the best at what they do you know be the best everyday they come in a waiting room one day at a time so the way the the workouts are amazing i love in it's been great a short time he's been here do you feel welcome the players reached out to you oh yeah absolutely the players reach out to me the coaches reach out to me there's a ghost is reach out to me nutrition everybody reach out to me so everybody really made me feel like this is home you know i've been here for about two weeks now and i feel like i've been here for about a year now hill only paying there's not really as familiar is probably just ann arbor other that everybody has been real good i mean i you're gonna feel that first ballgame you line up in that tunnel and you look out across that field you see that banner and i i can't even say like i can't imagine it because i'm pretty sure just throwing is probably like you can't even imagine you know so like i'm excited for is a blessing to be in that position now guys get the opportunity so much embracing just make the most out of what about your family when you're going through this process and kind of like sitting back and what jack just ask when you know they talk to you about come and watch you and they get the big house watch you play football all they were excited side it you know ended the most part about it was that when i was a sense rose two and a half hours you and now it's only forty five away from my house i gotta hear my mom and my dad told me how long just two and a half hour dry weather i mean pitstops they may have to use the bathroom whatever but no they say i understand that but no they're really excited they can't wait they're happy for me and they're just happy that i finally found a home you know you're always going out and whether it's do recruiting high school kids are going up transfers grad transfer stereos looking to find the best eighty five you can put and i hear him give any answers and he's saying everything that you like to hear from football player working hard in the classroom all the things he checked all those losses for you yeah no question a you know by by his town by his work ethic i mean he's the only player that we brought in as a transfer in this class see every other a player was a player right out of high school but a now just we thought we thought michael a which really special were really really help our team so very happy that we did he chose me wolverine we're happy to have you here in arbor we're looking forward to seeing you at a couple of months not lining up in amazing blewett wing helmet run down that tunnel go out there and make a bunch of big plays a opener against middle tennessee and then obviously be onto the rest of the season we appreciate the time my number that we should look for is for why or oh well last year i had a single digits so you know in college four seven eight seven seven this year but clique hudson's wearing seven right and you know little single digit for college football players a little swaggie so so you know a good number harbaugh family the number four is very very crowded as he's he'll be the one guy where you you're parents confined you're jersey at a store but it right before four to sell raise on other to the number four family is that coaches you said on numerous occasions with different guys including chris webber the number four is that the stick together yeah that's right that's right and a thing i love about michael a it's been my my impression and and what i've visibly scene is a not always wanna make himself grady wants the big michigan great to and that the that's where i feel the best about thanks mike absolutely thank you coming up next doug inaki joins us here on attack each day the harbaugh's podcast you're listening to attack each day the harbaugh's podcast and we're joined on the day the podcast by executive associate eighty for university of michigan athletics and chief of staff and also these four administrator for michigan football i think around these parts coach i think you call the man right he's he's what he is one of you're a right hand man right hand guy help facilitate everything you you guys need doug inaki joins us here does love the podcast where the great hockey he's a he's great adored all the time where you would not be nearly athletic director you are today without doug mackey so doug i jumped right in here when the eighty two this should open up in came out the word is gonna be coming how excited are you to tie michigan grad got it worked here obviously before you went off the buffalo into yukon how excited where you come home well first word headed offered me a position and you know i've helped him for about twenty years and we always know that his son heaven is twenty years old when i met ward evan was three months old so yeah the opportunities come back and michigan you know left two thousand six join my time and never think you're in a comeback i'm sure coaches the same thing for you like loving in arbor it's a part of you university is a huge part of you but you never know what's gonna be opportunities come back in a yeah you're you're you're somewhere doing a job and do the best job he possibly can in having for both of us yeah no and it's it said it was like a high school reunion even on urban mind where you come back and everybody looks a little different put on some more weight and will the building seem much smaller and the campus of the university in the town it seems so much smaller than they talk about wait now i wrote my dad has been telling me the gym here's what you do you get yourself a scale you put it in your bathroom every morning when you wake up you get on that scale and a okay okay you know tell me this for a couple of months i got on the scale today i'm getting myself a scale to put in the bathroom he said it will motivate you throughout the day let me go over that again wake up when you wake up in the morning you go to the bathroom she thought t of relievers so you were the same pajamagram you were the same top every single night get on the scale every single day and they go up pony oh my goodness you know i gotta quit eating this so i got a great that i got back or work out something maybe i'd better go get another good another mile in and then you go down a pound guy today potato chips gives your program it gives you a plan for the day depending on what is this genius i did get i got that when i had the heart attack that's one of the things that they will tell you to do that is that a kick kim eagle salary goes over in wisconsin before i came back here i tell you one thing i i i subscribe to it fully jack we've never talked about this before i've lost twenty pounds in the last year i do that every single morning and i am mad at myself or proud of myself every morning like oh man i did i need that handful of chocolate chips last night before bed now now my point of six i gotta tell you i know or here but i gotta get a scale of a lot of work the here's the funny thing happened you don't know one day and you lost like shy three pound like we want the pj we put on the seventeen thousand steps i mean i lost three point oh my god i gotta disease you thinking oh my goodness something happened to me and then another couple of days you put it back on your and what day is it a i know there's you walk a lot i see you around town campus and things like that that but a what how many times you listen to podcasts on those walks that's my every win every tuesday morning i can't wait to get on he a treadmill and a new thing over the curve yeah he's married the curve oh absolutely that's a trash the treadmill that's curve because when you run you know you never just lift you're feet up and have the the ground move underneath you so that that treadmill mill makes you move the treadmill and so you have to you have to reach gift of lift reach and then push through these like cycle and that's why i spend an hour tuesday every tuesday is listening listen to the podcast enjoyed very much in anyone out there that might be wondering whether you should be listening to the podcast and not a window and door said highly we're in we're in new york ward and dogging juwan and a josh in don brown in that do that trauma getting a lot of other people but a lot of people like the podcast in new york that you had a great feedback white guy one guy said a gentleman said i love the podcast i like the way you guys you're talking about something then just a heartbreak which back to the left so a coach and that's the reason i listen to podcasts 'cause i need a no one building what exactly i'm walking into and usually it's laid out tuesday morning difference from me coaches i i listen to it driving the work will coach harbaugh here's walking on a treadmill learners hard right turn was about weight loss of getting meals a day or i mean i said i said i said now we don't do that but topics we got gas talking like this part of that friday goes i guess that that that that scale is a good example we took a hard right turn sudden change so back there again not a nursing ducking accu wards right hand man an easy a you also a overseas the these are are football associate athletic director is well have you on the program my a you know after missing the last week and in a hearing what you're just saying well worn undestanding need higher coach here's my representative when i comes up my next contract i've never had so many nice things said about me before so i definitely appreciate it around great guy we a wife sarah in doug his wife molly we had a we had a great time a hung out a lot in south africa where we don't compare notes of hey what did you see on this drive and so forth and the pictures everything going back and forth i mean what a what a phenomenal experience that was dogs bend africa ten years ago and then he was one of three people that went over were in previewed the astro advance advance trip and cetera tired dinner erin schedule did come off the way foreseen who is funny we went over on the van strip in a sky goldschmidt marchesoni join me along with david turnley an you know i talked a lot about south africa and trying to hype up a trip to the guys but anyone oversell it 'cause you want him to heat up and then you go over there in it isn't the way we want in the first day we landed in a cape town the next morning david and i were meeting with some members of the springbok the the national rugby union an mark with were unable mountain in he just over a period of five minutes twentyfive text from him every time you turn around and you see this this this and we finally met up around lunchtime undersold he said you absolutely did and then we're like oh how do we get coach excited about it because he you went in the first year of rome you tannery minute by minute and you're shuffling around in the paris you kind of take a step back and he said well we only see this this and this but the rest of you kind of left i just wonder if he's fries the link late this time around in we saw lying on the safari we went on van strip when i sent a picture coach and i just said you were not ready for this band 'em i mean do we undersell it yeah i talked about it i i thee again and i've said this before primary feed myself but i enjoyed every minute of that trip and be the safari the robyn island experience parttime museum listening to a hobby sacks table mountain experience with springs box a where's incredible power voting yeah a tiny ocean does stuff like scenery that's your your whole lifetime the sea and you'd you'd never see it unless you were there there and elian from a fresh kill risk with blood on his paws and his leg you know real dark blood and that's mouth in his in his chest and just well how do we follow up is the problem when having those conversations internally in where do you even go next year other than maybe the mooner i'm i'm really i'm really getting a this is this week so that we could be something next week that the i'm excited i would like washington dc i'd like to go the supreme court in the halls of congress debbie dingle i'm sure would a welcome is there an smithsonian holocaust museum you have mount vernon you have arlington national cemetery i'm from there i could go through the whole list if you call an hour and change what maybe two hours away you could go charlottesville and see monticello and go see were jeffrey road are no good and goldie eddie berg is burns awesome or we could go to san diego and a seal team's training camp pendleton miramar then on pearl harbor and there were i what do you think what do you what you're suggesting you're the you're the guy who organized these travel and talked about i division you know doing these middle school trip we all pile and buses and we charter and get there and then all the guys are holding hands walking brown paper bag lunch he has exact sack lunches and everything i mean a marketer sunny had a great idea he said hey let's hit every continent of kind of go through that process and then we actually talked i like that after that the first game drive we said hey this inexperience every student athlete football player michigan should experience and we create a rotation where every four years you gotta south africa 'cause it's is that powerful the trip an amazing experience i think ever go through we we talked about china japan yeah you know based on the troops you've taken the prude we swing something like that goes allen swimming that's my turtles have be fabulous so cuba even though my my my crews just cancel is president trump cancelled all trips cuba so when you look back on the list that's the only way you you're a refund you get a full refund i called this morning you knowing the power of the harbaugh family if anybody could open those directions that's up on the podcast he went back on the less israel's yeah i know you mentioned a couple of years ago that'd be phenomenal it's not it's it's michigan you know it's when you go to these places it's a michigan people come from all their in those areas they're all over the world then a and they a well the first morning we're gonna go table mountain but the win preventative to that the waterfront in the mall area there in the guys are walking around and all these people are oh go blue i went to michigan graduated this year and then word was walking around he ranted mitch albom a at the shopping mall in this place finish it up a book right yeah he's he finished a book and i think he's just doing a trip with some of his friends and who the kruger the week before i was in capetown finishing in of all places they're running the mitch albom when you're in capetown south it's unbelievable how families surprise aid having a family trip there the same time we were there just wish we could go back for more years if we're lucky enough to i'm looking off the still there the different when you go say on the advanced reporting a previous chip versus going west eighteen the twenty year old their reactions instead of what we did they advance trip in the whole when the team when we're on the ground really for six days when they were on the ground for like three and a half days so we tried everything in that in that timeframe and i you know i wear my little fitness tracking i averaged four hours asleep on that have been stripped of those up in adam pretty much every day and you're not really enjoying the experience you're just thinking the logistics says are our week the movement of getting hunter fifty people for motor coach is out of these places you go into the restaurants what type of food or these guys gonna eat we don't we don't want all the way the cape town in there just eating chicken fingers and french fries so you dabble a little bit on maybe some safer foods and then you know look at the more local foods and i the guys love the food i think well we're over there and i speaking of the scale coach i gained weight on on and maybe if way myself every day on the trip that wouldn't have happened is my shit that scales undergarments applied myself where they were in kilograms of throwing me off but it was a yeah just once in a lifetime thing in the but michigan football it's not a once in a lifetime thing it's much every me when it's just gonna make the point i made it makes it a lot easier play any stress when you know you're players are gonna get any trouble you know they're gonna they're gonna be they're gonna be a respectful and they're gonna a you know not do anything a but they're not supposed to do and i've said it before i mean sometimes my favorite part of these trips is when the plane lands back in detroit in that were all there were all here were all dead at nobody went off the reservation and a a so he's gotta make you gotta make it somewhat easier the plan plan i mean that's where we were you know we plan three drives and we did 'em for thirty wakeup call we got out there in were thinking on the second day that second morning drive and maybe fifty percent of the guys wanna show up 'cause that's a long day 'cause wake up before thirty game drive in we flew home later that afternoon and it's sixteen hour flight from johannesburg doing lana everybody showed up for that drive in we're eating breakfast after safari yeah as as a game drives safari in breakfast this morning getting ready to fly home and there is i mean the buzz envy energy and enthusiasm in that room which is awesome and you could be kind of take a step back and it did high five and all that long about those awesome credit kids somebody asked a question when when you go to big ten bt now you got a big big ten media days there you go the nc double a's meetings are you worth you're peers and other athletic directors at administrators in president's how do they respond to the trips the michigan trips they think that's awesome someone they also think were crazy or doing that you know 'cause usually most teams can have a foreign trip every four years but it's a competition your basketball team went to spain last year and they practice for ten days on campus which they can do is part of this foreign to where every four years and they they go abroad and they played three games while they're over there but the thought of of taking a hundred guys party of a hundred and fifty people so the other side of the world is just something they just can't believe we pull off and i wish more people would do it because i mean we've seen the the value when the power those traps in any experiences we give and i think when you see advance legislation those recently approved were sort of even though it's still in the courts opening up unlimited educational expenses you know something we've been doing and a funny three years ago when coaches officers take the team drome and we look in the rule book to a foreign to where every four years and all these things now there were trained washable really hey you just can't do a coach but we could cause they said competition in the next day i have a competition ready go there and cracked the next day i come over and coach's office and he has a legal pad with ten pages handwritten notes and i know so you could be a trial attorney coach i've always wanna i want i've always wanted to be you hit on what i really wanna be i wanna be a guy that thundering away the jury or a judge if you know if they're worth the gavel but unfortunately don't have a law degree you a you made a great case so ward myself and ward said okay if you could make this work and work with their lives behind regular compliance office and she signed up and the rest is history a visionary what do they call that statement or joined you're television where you have those tapes like the things you tape all those different people different programs you take the dvr dvr dvr it's it's a wonderful thing perry mason zone years right perry mason judge judy absolutely so my neighbors the lone ranger who wore honorary a j b from the university of michigan maybe a commencement wanna be here at farmers we have a conversation about favor cars and you all you talk about perry mason cars oh yeah with those those fifties convertible yeah i love it and he's got he drives like a different one around every every season sometimes it seems like every every episode hard right turn it on cars i i'm talking to coach a wants to what program was but he said you know we love love what you do with the trips it's it's unbelievable freer players that you could provide that coach we do it were were just trying to keep the lights on you know so it is it's all ton of credit to the university of michigan and the resources there providing a football player i mean you look at the event we're at and new york's here earlier in the room full of people and i think the sort of the getting praised the get in there even though we're selling tickets or six figure commitments they just they athletic department you've been different schools and matthew in schools and jack you have an i mean that's a special room with a lot of people who just had this love and passion not only should athletic department before university in now understand those experiences that were providing well that kind of speaks to what we talked about with award and talk about what you guys with michigan degrees at play here or worked here and what the school here and coming back and you wanna be part of it because i kind of statement the michigan different man that's what draws you back and once you wanna they wanna be here yeah i mean i grew up in east lansing and but my dad his parents what the michigan both did medical medical university and got married a you like this talk about great recruiting they met on black friday of thanksgiving and got married on christmas eve wow oh so it's a good turnaround is still alive you could use him as a recruiter they're doing absolutely there today turner on right there my mother went university press my father always said we're doing missionary work lansing a burning in we'd had the pleasure working into other schools and you know my wife would that mean with me at both the schools and never lived in michigan in when workout the job become i said honey we've had some pretty special places but you're you're just not ready and she kind of looked at me all confused what does that mean in three and a half years later she she gets a not the compare where you where you know to buffalo or being yukon but there's a difference right when you come the michigan in or coming back to michigan as both a ninety eight percent of the university they're out there as far as what athletic departments are able to do a couple of the scale of everything you know connecticut has great tradition of specially in men's women's basketball and he truly is the only team for the state on the college level but the on the east coast professional like the state is yankees red sox giants patriots maybe some jets very much divided on everybody kind of rallies around yukon basketball a but in football world it's just not there they don't have that history would would connecticut with football but you come to michigan it's everything across the board at the athletics it's academics it's it's the pride of alumni film in that specially i mean could be anywhere in the world you see someone wearing a block amy talk tillman you're you're best friends in that bond you are listening to attack each day the harbaugh's podcast burgers on the coffee table you wanna eat a burger put it on a far stakes three jobs for the new american cheeseburger fresh juicy fiefs still it's crispy around the yeah just covered in doing she's stuck to the ceiling with delicious and not sat down with a prostitute miracle bar just like go sports god's in america cheeseburger at buffalo wild wings are please drink responsibly that farmers insurance we know the sound of a perfect hot air balloon landing and a less than perfect quicker more we are underwritten by farmer's truck fire insurance exchange and make sure you stick around after this podcast get the latest headlines from the eighteen news minute read up your engines adam corolla is teaming up with podcast wonder bring you going racing you're new favorite highspeed racing podcast joined adamant mad as they recap some of their conversations with the most known names in the automotive world and hear about the best racist fastest cars and biggest names in the automotive industry get ready set go download new episodes of going racing every week on apple podcasts and podcast one no back to attack each day the harbaugh's podcast doug hockey sport administrator for michigan football chief could be executive associate eighty and cheapest staffer michigan athletics joining us here on attack each day the harbaugh's podcast and you're also very much involved in what we're sitting in right now they redo ocean backer hall a lawsuit take us through you're part of that process a reminder about three years ago sit with coach and again one of these ideas he's coming how we gonna pull it off but he did his research and then he goes the meetings we had architects and you know we'd walk into a meeting and they were in the right direction and take a hard right turn we have a rocky roman the football weight room or something like that and at first you're like what do you don't you don't get the vision and 'em coach had put thought into it and and it's a fabulous facility that on top the top the bottom of the meetings will be architects the coaches 'em be administrators you know we've all seen different facilities across the country in in what's here i think is a took the bathroom all around a football and we kind of kicked it up a notch and put it all under one roof here so i mean it's you know having been in this building for over twenty years i i still am stunned every time i walk in 'cause it's been completely redone pretty much top the bottom at this point so this is a guy that should make everything go yeah 'em dry had the vision and no were very involved with putting it together and wanting this year want that their reasons for you know everything but this see you know the sea architects and engineers in the workers make it better than what you envision is an i mean it's just a it's an awesome awesome feeling every time i walk in the weight room is like oh my gosh you know and and now with the training room being finished in a cry oh pool he a the new turf he a new equipment room doctors offices a everything all pulled together all in the same spot we are taking her first recruits through it a an are players as we mentioned last week of may have have real gratitude and a you know understand what what this does for for player development in just see it all come together better than what you envision is a marvelous feeling i think what's amazing who's usually these facilities when they built it start from scratch so they architects plan everything with a blank canvas and here we were using are existing facilities facilities in heading on another then some carpet swatches having been replaced that you'd have no idea where they old building a new building a matt and i mean the thought of taking a mastermind fieldhouse in taking forty yards out and putting on weight room in really how that's never gonna work and then we first time you walk in there when it's done it makes sense and you just have that while a win engineer said it would save ten million dollars so do that we're all we're all the same get it you're in a solution guy coach so again you wanna save us ten million dollars and that's what we did have the brain the brain here the tragedy operation to michigan degrees ross school of business needs theology where's you're a sheep ea in test score coming out of high school a no comment allowed i don't i i don't know i don't remember exactly what the east lansing high school like i said earlier ended up late for jeff smith who played for bump india in the sixties he's a michigan man where where's emory as my high school football coach had that influence i was a ashley waitlisted to the university of michigan and then i find out until around this time of year a long time ago when i was applying for the university so that's that one night shift you just wonder what would have happened is he a when i did not apply to another school got waitlisted it looked at my mom and i said you should apply for another college at this point and she said yeah you did you i did a nother big ten institution not he's not the one in east lansing i looked at indiana and had a great experience when it went down visit and a kind of held out hope and the rest is history and here i am a funny and i got waitlisted at michigan got off the weight listen got it myself injured spirits there you go apparently i was up three point one gps say any ten eighty thousand eighty s h t i know people that have a fourteen eighty s e t on the wait list right now i'd now oh i couldn't you now there's no right grade inflation coach i mean i think you know you took you're gps test scores the you know today's value i'm sure you'll be around the fourteen eighty two joe i think if i take a second time only took a one time i went down when it's like you know when i you know what you gotta do scc ten ninety okay good job ira everybody knows i went down the second time i don't have the ninety thirteen now i got i wanna see our our early on especially villain ever believe i believe that carnival back in the day hey nineteen fifty seven applying bowling green zone near desk here's this could be the exact we had no cash whatsoever you went in to be admitted and they had a mere that you blue into an official fogged up you're in and you want to see oh she can't wait to get that much grabbing the microphone didn't even take that safety there were more sunday's not to be the fountain of youth in this room or anything but i got josh and i took it like i'm a bad testing i think i took they see like four times and i think i did the same thing i read i think i got worse the more ticket but i got waitlisted at michigan to and then i went i ended up going to western michigan university for one year and i transferred back to michigan so kind of a you know what around the block a little bit but ended up where you're supposed to be so here handicapped my phone and i just thirteen seventy while cutting seventy approves a you got a very impressive got thirteen seventy now certainly darcy night thirteen ninety seven ten verbal six eddie math oh step matt i appreciate it i knew i knew this would come in handy no one ever believe me i guess that tells me about something about myself i guess at that point well it's a combination of personnel more of a wrong by i appreciate that outside of it but you get a twenty nine ac that's impressive never never a happier emerge chicken once or twice just wants to suppress the ac t it was not emphasize it on the east coast ninety i yeah i labor throat somehow survived somehow got it in michigan don't ask me how that happened there is no way i get it the michigan now which sam webb i asked him asking i bet you he had a very high mask or 'cause he's mass but i don't i ask you a question that was always the horrible achilles heel i lost my ex's math right after long division i like my father but we got one guy had we gotta we gotta sunday we gotta share that he is they mathematical wiz how the bike ride is only now nashville hot cast what hey longtime listener firsttime caller a little jack is the first one in the family to ever be promoted a great he's been a few go down the other way they were going in the right direction in this generation supposed to close what the what the generation ahead of them did in theory and you hope that's the case so jack as well on his way which is a gun i think we all want our kids to be smart enough i know i do well my kids are smarter the harsh adamant harming how they are j j and a news james in gracie they've all been all up in the thirteen hundreds so okay but that's beside the destruction project decides the trips what are your favorite things fun things that you get to be involved with when it comes michigan football oh i mean every every day it's something new you know i interned here's and undergrad my first one of my first jobs this day caring v a m go beyond club banner on and off the field wow pregame 'em thinkers possibility and when it was stolen dream my undergraduate years is not when i was in charge just wanna make sure that that's a that's record's straight but it's pretty surreal being involved in all all these different things and aspects of working with coach you're being in the building or former players will come back and it'll the guys that you know i grew up watching have to remember like okay you're a professional dear job you're not here is a is a fan and a every everyday with michigan football is just something you know you kind of working for the greater good and that you were just the caretakers a for this department for this team in in leave it in a better place than we found it in something i think everybody in this building is committed to an end work starts everyday very popular guy you know a doug very good friends with jack soccer coach red ribbon i am now now that i could go check out one of these games he says it's pretty competitive a on the field let me tell you about are lasting replaying the leopards the burns park leopards who were beaten us two weeks ago oh five the two handily handily beat us a so were back we've got a we've got william are back which we needed he was are these are best player and a this game is is one nothing leopards in as one one that's two to one leopards and then it's to to mustangs leopards and then it's three two leopards and then my son jack got the tangled make it three three so as this building the whole game i've never experienced the youth game where i mean the players i mean they're getting knocked down there in somebody's house then they're up there they're playing is hard as they possibly can and the fans the parents guys delivered score a goal ended on a high five and over there that we we score a goal at work or it just building building building building and then finally william arc chick went over everybody's head and a into the goal and we ended up winning forty three and a it's pandemonium the coaches are confident kid i just sit around and there's no scoreboard we don't keep score now we don't keep score and i watch it on there wasn't anyone in that scenario they did know exactly what the score was and what what is going on right no question about it for three that was my first time i mean you say i am against the tunnel i'm against the parents the go out yeah and hold hands together and make the title for the kids but i i was so moved by that david i joined writer that kids read through the total pretty cool when it comes to a tie right now we want not just the philosophy is a coach to ties you don't keep score but average that everyone should keep you all know the score but that that's the rules emotionally under the under eight leaked at my kid is and they we coach to a tie well my kids seems undefeated i don't think we don't know that right we keep we know if it's one nothing to one to nothing or if there's a tie you know because we were all competitive we all want our kids to have a score right the kids were competitive you don't want the not learn that's important skill the learning the you learn it'd be alerted five six seven years old learn how to be competitive you don't wanna lose but you kind of learn had a cause it like you don't get a job or the girl turns you down or whatever you had a except that defeat so it's better learn it five six seven had a win graciously or lose lose graciously but generally have graciously good sportsmanship and and a competition and teamwork right i will say this is it's much better to watch that there's no question about it well doug has been a lot of fun and i will look at least shutouts throughout 'cause we know you're listening i'm dr the work excuse me like i said when my contract runs out on have coaches go she ate with all the love who's gonna be here the last couple of weeks so thank you sir i'm just trying to figure china thank you like you're most shining moment but you've been involved in everything i'm over background guy like stay in the background in let other people you're not you're not you're not a self promoter but a you are truly great really great at what what'd you do and a any program it'd be lucky to have you as their athletic director and a we appreciate you so much and thank you and you did jack harbaugh is number one key to happiness in descending order jack horrible had a love and passion for so you're job don't trade outsmart people out work come number one mary wisely built a bowling green falcon or high sixties don't bother you go see if the kito life berry falcon man of action i didn't know oh oh my goodness what year did she graduated careful careful yeah comment earlier out alone we we ever diploma hanging up a smart man ena man of action doug inaki joining us here on his back into the harbaugh's podcast duck river thank you coming up next jack talk here on attack each day the harbaugh's podcast this is jack sock i wanna listen i would it be better i wouldn't be the best that could be welcome to the team the team that jack talk as you get older you get the beach seventy eight years old here's what i find hair grows in places it hadn't been before welcome to hashtag jack talk it's now time for everybody's favorite segment we can't can't attack each day the harbaugh's podcast it is time for jack talk and i said before we get to the meat of the jack talk today we wanna go back to last week's jack talk we were talking a little bit about a you're talking about rocky marciano when i talked about my driving me i eighty quarter omaha and back and we found at noon iowa is between demoines in davenport and i'm very disappointed i missed the stock is there has to be aside in that stretch i know at least one of the trip said that it was at night in the rain so i forgive myself for for missing that but i'm a little disappointed but i didn't see any other three times four times either twice in each direction they're not once did i see the rocky marciano sign that has to be on the highway for new between demoines in davenport this two years back in seventy one in seventy two i recruited for island made a lot of trips on that court or an end remember that i woke up with a big rocky marciano fan i mean he was when he was a a a a short arm guy talk about fighters you had a long arms and but he had a short arms and he had a punch a joe walcott jersey joe long car they were fighting and they jersey was actually winning on points but rocky marciano did he didn't try to hit his face he he put up his arms and he would hit his forearms and he kept putting his forearms in the end the blood vessels in his forearms where he broke in the arm swelled up during the thirteenth round he couldn't get his he's up there to protect his face and he nearly right on the tip of the john knocked him out in her thirties from listeners looked at up that that knockout punch i mean he had him on the ropes and he nailed him with the right that's great strategy can't get their hands up can't play defense right just knocked out bring those hands down he took a few punches on the way i i promise i'm sure he did buddy won the fight the fight and that's sticky one forty nine a row the ends justifies the means right for absolutely right so the meat of this jack talk is actually we won't have you set up we're gonna play the audio of what the video of your son john that he delivered for a few weeks ago at these celebration of football though you're at in jackson michigan he played it for all the parents and kids that were there but we want you to set the video up first of all you know we we've talked so many times our were in the july you know high schools are working out and getting ready for their their preseason camp colleges are chomping at the bit ready to get ended their camps pros are in camp as as we as we speak and and so a football is under a little bit of stress i mean there's moms out there right now are trying to decide do i want johnny depp participate in football ball the seventh and eighth grade i won't even play high school football football something i want him to be exposed to end a we've tried to frame it every way we possibly can an end for myself you know i have probably not done as good a job as a would have like but i do know there is a member of our family who has knocked that one right out of the park next john harbaugh he did a a a paper of but a three page paper here but three of four years ago and it got got a little bit of attention a little bit of traction and then we did are are van in in jackson and i ask john if he would do a video for a five minute video force the talk about why we need football why football's important why those moms and dads it's out there you know if their son is interest and that's what he wants to give them a chance to experience football and ask him if he would do a presentation for us and he put it together on video about as well as you could possibly put it together hit all the points that he had had a newspaper and he did it with a with a passion for the game in a conviction for the game and if there are mothers out there and grandmothers out their fathers uncles you know that a have youngsters it they they love and they believe in and they want that they want the chance to express football they want a chance to play the game football look at this video it's gonna give you some talking points where you can convince other family members at this is a good thing here is john harbaugh well not with you and jackson's today because of team activities with the baltimore ravens i did want to salute standing tradition and the storied history of our glick in jackson area football and i'm honored over my thoughts on this great game of football football in the visored instills and young men is critical to our society the game of football is under attack the question is asked over and over why would anyone wanna play football in why would anyone let their kids play football here's my answer i believe there's practically no their place where today a young man is held to a higher standard football is hard it's tough demands disciplined teaches obedience it builds character football is a metaphor for life the game asked young man push himself further then he ever thought he could go it literally challenges his physical courage it shows and what it means the sacrifice teachers and the importance of doing his job well we learned put others first to be a part of something bigger than ourselves selves to be part of a team where we learned a lift all of our teammates inner selves up together these are rare lessons nowadays there is no doubt word important time in our sport the concussion issues real and were facing it we have to continue to give players and better how much we have to teach tackling the right way and it all starts at the nfl level we've changed the rules were taking certain things out of the game and it will continue and is the right thing to do but even with all that importance of football has not changed in some ways in many ways it's more important than ever and i believe the most critical plays football still is that the youth and high school levels for ninety seven percent football players the pinnacle of their careers is a high school game few players ever going to play at the college level even fewer make it to the pros for a lot of these kids for a lot of you kids it's not until it's all said and done but they look back on it several years later and they realise lies the differences sport of football may not realize they're proud of playing the game let me ask you this have you ever met anybody who accomplished playing four years of high school football in at the end of that runs said man i wish i hadn't played it doesn't it said they know the value of football is the values in football that's what high school football and particularly high school coaches play such a vital role in our society are football coaches like the ones here today teaching you players here's on the front lines of the battle for the hearts and minds of young men and are society the culture wars on and we see it every day these young men are more vulnerable than ever the challenges students face are greater than ever coaches teach our young people lessons in life that very often they learned from no one else coaches have the kind of influence and are schools and with our young people that is difficult to come by the note administer billy gram once said one coach will influence more people in one year the average person who will do in a lifetime my dad also says all the time but it just takes one person to believe in a young man or young woman to change their life's i couldn't agree more culture teaches us a judge in activity but how it's gonna make us feel right now the football doesn't work that way the game challenges us pushes us it soft and uncomfortable it requires us to be at are best isn't that what we want in our society don't we all wanna be our best selves football as a great sport football teams can be very often are the catalyst for good in our schools in our communities millions of young men have learned lessons in football that they could only learned through playing the game football i save life that's why football matters that's why you attend events like the ugly football camp soak it all in become better coaches you matter students you met her parents you matter more than anyone football matters thanks for listening you contact us on twitter at eighty podcast or by using hashtag jack talk follows favors strive to us on podcast one dot com and the podcast cast one i don't forget the rate us on i tunes podcast one have a great week everybody keep attack each day with enthusiasts unknown man time thank you for listening to attack each day the harbaugh's podcast here on podcast one don't don't forget to subscribe at podcast one dot com the podcast one app for apple podcast capital one knows those life doesn't alert you about your credit card stock ram street in drive in the tech short you're tnl energy going up sixteen percent this month seems like you stay clear of the closing doors so me you know the capitol one assistant if the catches things that might look wrong like increases to a recurring bill then sent to your phone and helps you fix it you know another way capital one is watching out for your money when you're not capital one what's in your wallet capital one dot com for details limitations apply at farmers insurance we know roof can withstand a lot one of exception being an airborne 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