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Part One: How L. Ron Hubbard Lied His Way to Godhood
It's baritone date, Thurston host of spit. I heart radio newest podcast, which one, three and me where we explore, how understanding your DNA changes, how we think about ourselves and the world around us. We've got the why clefts John. We have so much more in common than you could even imagine you put two kids together. They're going to want to play. They're gonna wanna have a good time. They gonna wanna fall in. Love have opinions. This is every kid listen to the full episode of spit with twenty three and me in the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcast. Hello friends. I'm Robert Evans, and this is once again behind the vestige. The show where we tell you everything you don't know about the very worst people in all of history. Now, this is a show where I read a tale of terrible person to a guest who is coming in cold or as cold as you can possibly come into on a subject. My guest today is Caitlin. Durante the Bechtel cast comedian and fan of L, Ron Hubbard, love him. Love some l. r. h. yeah. Yeah. What what do you know about Mr. Hubbard I know that he was a SCI fi, like pulpy writer in his early days and that he's the founder of the church of Scientology. Yeah, I watched going clear and that's pretty much all I. Okay, cool. He was a living monument to how much a tall white man can achieve in this world by just lying without pause or cessation for seventy street us. That's his whole life. He just never stopped lying from the time. He was about four years old until the day he died and he, he died worth like six hundred million dollars. So it worked out pretty well. I had a weird time researching this because I wanted to hate him and it's really hard to hate him. Really. He's a piece of shit. He is a monster. He does terrible things, but there's also he's not just a terrible guy. Like with a lot of terrible people today, it'll be like some rich asshole. Who like does something terrible to the environment or like, you know, is abusive to their employees or whatever. L Ron Hubbard did his terrible things while shooting for the moon. That's interesting. Gotta admire him for that. He might be the most ambitious con artist in human history. He's in the running, right? So Lafayette Ron. Hubbard was born on March. Thirteenth nineteen. Eleven until the Nebraska. His family moved there shortly thereafter to Helena Montana. His grandfather was moderately successful, but not wealthy by any means. He owned a decent house stables and a tar with a black man's head carbon onto the top of it. Yeah, that's a detail you'll run into a number times early life. Yeah, yeah. I'm guessing it was racist. I don't know. Later Hubbard would claim his grandfather owned a massive ranch, a quarter of the size of Montana and that he spent his early childhood having adventures there and becoming a blood brother of the blackfoot Indian tribe. That's it. He's already appropriating, you know, other cultures born appropriating other cultures on the website. What is Scientology, which is a Scientology website. It says that his particular friend among the blackfoot tribe was an elderly medicine man commonly known as old, Tom quote, establishing a unique friendship with the normally taciturn Indian Ron with soon initiated into the various secrets of the tribe, their legends customs and methods of survival in a harsh environment at the age of six. He became a blood brother of the black feet, an honor bestowed on few white men. So this is when he's six is what he claims. So this is this is not. There's there's no evidence that six year old L Ron Hubbard had adventures with Indians and became their blood brother. The Los Angeles Times reported on this in nineteen ninety. They talked to a historian, Hugh Dempsey, who is an expert on the blackfoot tribe in his wife is a member of the blackfoot tribe and he basically said, blood brothers aren't even thing. The tribe has a Hollywood idea that was invented for western movies. Yeah. So it seems like all of L Ron Hubbard's ideas about this, try that he claimed membership and came from like movies he watched as a kid, which is, yeah. Okay, good. So love how influential movies are in how they, you know, don't do anything to fuck up our society. Well, and it's amazing how little fact checking people do if you claims a lie from far back enough like that because the church Scientology still continues this line to this day that our on Hubbard was brother of the blackfoot tribe. And he even claimed later that a lot of his philosophical ideas came from, like Indian rich. Tools and stuff. And it's like as far as we know, he never met a single member of the blackfoot tribe, right? So I did want to give sort of a source on Ellen Hubbard's early life from sympathetic side. Most of the research I did on this was by people who are critical of him, so I didn't wanna know kind of how the church of Scientology talks about his upbringing, and I found l. Ron Hubbard dot org, which claim to have by graphical information on him, but actually just tried to sell me a series of books on Ron Hubbard because it was owned by the church of Scientology, but there was a trailer for the book series about L Ron Hubbard called l. Ron Hubbard a profile, and I wanna play you a little bit of that because it gives you an idea of sort of the cliffs notes of his life as portrayed by the church of Scientology time earned. The hallowed place in black feet war became the nation's youngest eagle scout at the age of thirteen and studied with the last in a line of legendary mystics from the court of kublai Khan. History. Ascended to the heights of greatness in a now fabled kingdom of the pulse and chartered unknown realms beneath a famed explorers, club flag. Retrace his journey to the founding of Dianetics and Scientology and his. Almost none of that's true, right. He was an explorer and founded uncharted t was there was a group called the explorers club, which was like a big thing in the day, and he did basically connive his way into being a member there, and he did carry out a couple of explanations that didn't really find much, but he piloted around in a boat until his boat broke down and he had a flag with them. Okay. So that that that's kind of what he's there. So what am I main sources for this episode was a book called bare faced messiah, which is a really comprehensive biography of Ron Hubbard by Russell Miller. Probably the first anyone ever wrote in the interviewed. A lot of L Ron Hubbard's relatives, people who saw him as he was growing up and stuff, and none of the people who are with him when he was a baby when he was six when he was like a young child head any recollection of any of the stuff that he claimed about his aunt Marnie who grew up with him, described him as the baby of the family, adored and coddle by everybody. He was very much the lovechild with the whole family. He was a door by everyone. I can still see that mop of red hair running around so. He was like the little baby of the family, but he grew up more or less in a house in a small town as beloved youngest child of a very close knit family, no adventures in his early childhood that there's any evidence of a love that imagination on him. You know, there's a thin line between imagination and just lying. Yeah. The actual information says that Hubbard enrolled in kindergarten at age six rather than becoming a foot brother. I suppose his local nickname was brick because of his red hair, I guess, because bricks or read nineteen fifteen was not a good time for nicknames. So Ryan Johnson's film break. It's actually based on L Ron Hubbard wish I knew something about. Yeah, I'm I'm assuming that's a very good joke seen it. Oh, it's not a good joke. It is a joke. It's a pretty good movie. Yeah. Okay. Well, L Ron Hubbard young life was not a pretty good movie 'cause he, he pretty much went to kindergarten. He later claimed that while he was in school, he would protect other kids from the bullies, terrorizing his classmates using the lumberjack fighting skills learned from his grandfather was grandfather was not a lumberjack owned a small oil company, but wasn't a lumberjack one of Ron's closest childhood friends. Andrew Richardson stated he never protected nobody. It was all bullshit. Old Hubbard was the greatest con to ever lived, which is more or less true. Ron moved to Seattle after his dad joined the navy when he was like twelve years old, he did join the boy scouts at this point and became an eagle scout at like age thirteen. But there's, no, it's true. That is true. That is true, but there's no evidence that he was the youngest eagle scout ever because back then the boy scouts did not make a note of what age people were with. It became the eagle scouts bookkeeping, bad book. He's outs, but I'm guessing Ron knew that which is why he made the lie. Yeah, but he's good at being a boy scout, I guess. Okay. Not hard lease already an explorer, and we all those a blood brother of a tribe with the blackfoot really prepared him for his merit badges and wiggling and all face lies during his teenage years. His dad was in the navy. So during his teenage years Brown visited him twice for like a month or two each time. So he did get to spend some time in the far east, but it was mostly military bases with his parents. The myth factory, of course that he created later spun this into a series of exotic eastern adventures where he said, you heard the I was trained in the court of kubla Khan by thebenz mystics. He was on vacation with his parents and like China and stuff. He mostly seemed to not enjoy his time in the far east. He thought China was gross and dirty. He thought Chinese people were gross in dirty. We have his diaries from those times and he's not weirdly racist for an American in like nineteen twenty, but he's pretty racist sure pretty racist in mission into time. Scientology book. Though he spun his basic vacation with his parents. In China, into quote in China, he met an old musician whose ancestors had served in the court of kublai Khan and a Hindu, who could hypnotize cats in the high hills of Tibet. He lived with bandits who accepted him because of his honest interest in him and his way of life. So that's fun. Okay. Yeah. So far he saw the great wall of China. His only notes in his notebook about this was that they should make it into a roller coaster shitload of money. So. There's no evidence of him learning any eastern wisdom, but we do know that this is the time when he first started sketching out short stories because he spent a lot of boring time on boats and trains and stuff. It would like a notebook writing out story ideas. Most of them were just like he didn't even write out a lot of stories. It was mostly just him writing out the ideas. So like it'd be entries like love story goes to France, meet swell abroad in Marseilles. She takes them to her sink bedroom and bath where he lives until notable citizens object. He stands them off and takes the next boat for America. Having received a long expected will donation. So it's like weird little stories like that. Most of them involved American travelers meeting beautiful for and women. Again, he's like fourteen, yeah, he didn't seem to know how to write sex scenes. So like the closest to GATT in his first short story was a scene where like a navy Corman is with like a beautiful native woman and they fall in love. But then when he would write out like what they did, he just kept scratching it out to the point that we don't know what he wrote is he apparently wrote a sec. Scene and they're just like furiously erased. It. Like he puts his, oh, God. What is the woman again? All right. Cool. So he's an in cell. It is entirely possible. He did not know what a woman was at that point. Yeah, he was like a fifteen year old in the twenty s yeah, he either knew everything or nothing. He knew that you're supposed to objectify women. He just doesn't know how he was bad at it. Yeah. And that would be like a hallmark of L Ron Hubbard's writing is that especially since a lot of the Pulp Fiction that he became famous for other stories in that John, we're really sexual. That was never a thing. He was good at. Okay that yeah, you heard to here. I L Ron Hubbard couldn't write about, fuck fuck on couldn't. No. Actually, that's not true weirdly enough, which we'll get to later. There's some evidence he actually became pretty good at fucking. Wow. That just make that up. And that's more of his, you know, inventive meal. These are people who didn't like him otherwise, but like on relationships and we're like, he wasn't bad at fucking, can't wait till we get there. Oh, no, it's exciting. This is quite a journey. So after he got back from the far east, he enrolled in George Washington University in the fall of nineteen thirty Scientology publications state that while there he became the associate editor of the university newspaper was a member of many university clubs and societies and enrolled in one of the first nuclear physics courses ever taught in an American University. And several words of that are not entirely incorrect. He did go to George Washington University. He was a student of the school of engineering. He did not take nuclear physics courses because this was nineteen thirty. He was not good at civil engineering. He hated it and usually did not go to class. He did right for the school newspaper, but he was not an editor for it. He just wrote a few articles mostly as PR for the club that he launched, which was the school gliding club. Oh, he loved gliding. Hang gliding. No, it's still exists today as a sport. You don't hear about it much, but they're basically planes. If you saw one park, you would just guess it was a plane, but most of them don't have engines and you can either fling them into the sky with this weird winch system, or you can drop them off the back of an airplane. People can travel across continents in these things. If they're really good at them, you can go hundreds of miles, but they're not really planes. Okay. Because there's no engine yet. There's no engine. It's just about managing your levels, whatnot. I don't know. I'm not a glider pilot, but he was a big fan of that and he did. He was apparently pretty good at it, but he was better at creating a club for it and drilling up interest in it. Soon. He started writing articles for like sportsman's magazine, sportsman aviator, and other magazines like that. We would just lie about, you know, I was in this horrible die of my plane was falling apart and like, yeah, and I had this. I crashed into this barn and so he just made up stories about stuff. He did in this glider plane when in reality he did it for like a year or so. And then he lost his license because he couldn't afford to renew it. And then he never flew again. Okay. But he kept writing articles about flying even after he stopped being able to do it because yeah, sounds like a theme of his fabricating stories. There's usually a germ of truth. He did fly a glider a lot. There was one time where he like crashed glider into a small town. Nobody got hurt and like he wound up having to take off from a nearby hill or something like that, which he then turned into, you know, stories of traveling across the country on a glider and having all these adventures discovering a whole other continent. And. Yeah, so that's Elvin Hubbard and college. His grades were as bad as you'd expect because he usually would skip out on class in order to glide more often. He was studying civil engines, civil engineering, right. Okay. So his, I'd. Yeah, of course. He was bad at it because he thought the great wall of China should be a roller coaster. That was his idea like structures that was that was the first thing he thought seeing the most impressive thing. People that ever built was like, man, but a roller coaster on the son of a bitch. Yeah, l. Ron Hubbard his grades were pretty bad, but during this time, like in nineteen thirty two when he was a sophomore, his school launched a literary journal in he submitted his first finished short story for publication. So this is the first time he got published writing fiction. The story was titled ta after the name of its main character and it was about a twelve year old child soldier in China on a March to die horribly. In a battle, he quickly wrote another short story about another really, really bloody battle this time in naval battle in the Yangtze river be repeatedly described the river is being filled with headless corpses big thing for gore big thing for violence. Most of his early stories involved bloody adventures and fatally Asian settings. So this is his passion clearly see, see the pattern that summer summer of nineteen thirty two L Ron Hubbard decided to launch an expedition of his own. He called it the Caribbean motion picture expedition in convinced a bunch of other young nineteen year old boys to pool their money, so they could rent a boat for the summer and sale to the Caribbean. Their goal was to explore abandoned pirate strongholds and filmed themselves running around in pirate costumes for the presumed historic value of these video children running around pirate costumes. He also said that he wanted to quote, collect whatever one collects for exhibits in museums. Again, not a lot of specifics right about what's going to happen. Loves vagueness. Also Disney's pirates of the Caribbean. The film also sounds like it was based on l. Ron Hubbard. So little bed. A lot of movies based on this game flav. There was a report on his adventure in the school newspaper written by an anonymous writer who was almost certainly a run Hubbard himself. So I'm going to read you that school newspaper article trying to get other kids to join his expedition to the Caribbean. Contrary to popular belief, wind jammer days are not over in romance, refuses to die the death, at least for fifty young gentlemen Rovers who will set sail on the shooter, Doris Hamlin from Baltimore on twentieth June for the pirate haunts of the Spanish main. According to L Ron Hubbard the strongholds and bivouacs of the Spanish main have leaned neglected and forgotten for centuries. And there has never been a concerted attempt to tear apart the jungles to find the castles of teach Morgan buzney Bluebeard kid sharp down there where the sun is whipping up heat waves from the palms. This crew of gentlemen Rovers will reenact the scenes which struck terror into the hearts of the world only a few hundred years ago with the difference that this time it will be for the benefit of the fun and the flickering ribbon of celluloid in their spare time. If they have any, they will scale the heights of belching volcanoes. Hunt in the thick jungles shoot flying fish on the wing, yada, yada, yada, yada. So sounds like a great adventure. The great depression was in tight at this point. So it was like a lot of kids signed up because they're like, well, what else are we going to do? There's no jobs might as well have an adventure sailing around the Caribbean Hubbard claim that FOX movie tone and pathway news had already put in bids for the film rights. He claimed the New York Times had contracted to buy the photographs. So he's basically promising that they would do this expedition and celebrate video and photos, and everybody would get money that was the claim going out there. Now it was all lies. Of course, in Ron Hubbard actually hadn't worked out deals with any media agencies. The New York Times has no record of this. Neither do any of the agencies. He said he'd contracted with. He didn't even have enough money to properly finance the whole expedition. So the doors Hamlin, which did sail out head to return to port about a month early having found no pirate strongholds in film to know movies, the captain Hubbard had hired called the voyage. The worst trip I ever made. Most of the gentleman Rovers jumped ship at the first two ports. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was kind of a disaster good for them. Now. Now abandoning ship, never. You know, the sunk cost fallacy can make fools of us all. Sometimes it's important to get off that boat, which in the third episode of this three part series, there will be a boat that people don't get off of. We'll see what happens when l. Ron Hubbard gets to carry one of his dreams of taking a bunch of people on a boat to the furthest extent. He never gives up this idea. So in September, when everyone's back in school and Hubbard's back from his failed voyage to the Spanish main. L Ron Hubbard wrote an article chronicling his journey for the school newspaper. In this article, the journey was turned into a historic success where everybody got laid. It was all like no girls allowed. It seemed like no choice. Gentleman Rovers yeah, can't can't have a gentle lady Roman. Oh, no, absolutely. Not. No. No, cool. Well, yeah, I would. You have wanted to be on that boat. No. That sounds like a nightmare. I mean, I'll be honest, if at age nineteen, I'd had a chance to get on like a sailing ship and traveled to the Caribbean and pretend to be a pirate. I probably could have been convinced to do it, but I had a lot of dumb shit when I was nineteen. Yeah, yeah. Hubbard wrote in the article when they weren't out catching sharks or harpooning or visiting some colorful spot. They were capably entertained by the dark eyed, senior rita's at the various ports. I'm gonna guess k. he just invented that all the. The article also hailed the scientific achievements of the expedition, which mostly included a bunch of film in specimen donations to the university of Michigan. The university of Michigan has no record of any donations from L Ron Hubbard. Yes. Seeing any trend to yourself are really know you picked up on a pattern? Nope. Well, there isn't one yet. L. Ron Hubbard dropped out of school shortly after getting back from this and we will be getting into all of that. And what happened after he leaves college later in the start of his career, writing terrible Pulp Fiction. But before we get into that gimme good ad segue Caitlyn, hey, everyone stay tuned for more l. Ron Hubbard but until then to check out this ad. That was fantastic, really, really natural. That's the part that most convincing to people. Hi, I'm Robert Evans from behind the bastards. And if you're anything like me, you're scared of people seeing what you do on the internet because you look at a lot of crazy stuff. 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So start protecting your internet experience today with sixty six percent off a two year plan by using the code bastards at Nord VPN dot com. Slash bastards. That's promo code bastards at Nord VPN dot com. Slash bastards risk free thirty day money back guarantee. And we're back our producer, Sophie just had to throw it a salad that was really bad. So if you want to feel like you're with us while you listen to the show, make yourself a terrible salad and then throw it away. When we last left off of their story l. Ron Hubbard head dropped out of college after a failed expedition to pretend to be pirates care. What a time the thirties were? Yeah. Yeah. According to a brief biography, if L Ron Hubbard published after he came up with dynamics, his first action on leaving college was to blow up steam by leading an expedition into Central America. In the next few years. He headed three all of them undertake into study savage peoples and cultures to provide fodder for his articles and stories between nineteen thirty three and nineteen forty one. He visited many barbaric cultures and yet found time to write seven million words of public fact and fiction. No, this is true. He did get published play about two million words, something like that of of mostly fiction. So like he was a prolific writer from thirty three to forty one. He didn't write seven million words. Right? And it's just like gonna find some savage people to write about, and that's one hundred percent lies. He didn't go to Central America. We have no record of any expeditions that he led to study savage peoples and cultures. The fact that he's like these disgusting savages gotta go find out about them and exploit them and their lifestyles. I mean, it's nineteen fifty. Nine. Sure. Calling them. People is almost woke. Good. But obviously right after Hubbard dropped out of school. His dad used his navy connections to get Hubbard a gig doing volunteer work in Puerto Rico for the Red Cross, which I think is the closest to got to a expedition in Central America just not very close to being an expedition central, not at all that this is what I think he's talking about. He immediately abandoned his commitment to the Red Cross as soon as he arrived on the island and instead wandered off into the woods to search for gold. He believed that conquistadors had hidden. They'll run over. He is purely delusional, right? It's hard to say how much of him is just a liar and how much of him is living in a fantasy world because it's clearly a mix of the two because he's not one hundred percent a liar. I can't believe that after having read his story, some of this is he just lives in this whimsical world of this. Mistake, like a negative true information and then like blow at way out of proportion? Yeah. Because like for the rest of his life, he would talk about like how he was a gold prospector, whatnot for a time. It was like you wanted around the jungle and didn't find goals. Yeah, Scientology lore claims that he carried out the first minute or logical survey of Puerto Rico. The put there is again, no evidence of this. He did briefly work for a prospecting company, but he was back in the mainland United States within a few months in April of nineteen thirty three. He married a woman named Polly. He was extensively working as a writer during this period, but Polly later claimed that in the first year together, he probably made less than one hundred dollars. Now, this point he was reading mostly nonfiction later that year he claimed to have found gold on his own land, and there's some news reports of interviews with him about the Goldie found on his land. That appears to have been a lie cooked up for the benefit of his scheme that we don't know the other half of like, I'm gonna soon. He tried to make money off of it. But all we know is there's these articles about him finding gold and no evidence that he ever found gold, right? He was clearly trying something you're not gonna catch the whole story for everyone of this guy schemes. He never was not scheming right. Okay. AB s always always always be scheming nineteen. Thirty four saw. The explosion of the only art form L Ron Hubbard would ever truly master pope fantasy fiction from thirty three to thirty four. Hundreds of new magazine started up around the United States, many of these like weekly magazines that would have like fifteen twenty different stories in them would totally sixty seventy thousand words. So every week they're putting out like a novels worth of short stories, and there's dozens of magazines doing this. So there's a huge amount of hunger in this market for quickly written cheap stories of Cowboys and Indians of gangsters of monster and bear attacks like that sort of stuff sold in this period. So a man capable of ceaseless effortless machine gun repeatedly lying was perfectly. He was built to write really, really quick shitty fiction and and he was good at it up until this point. Like I said, he'd written mostly for sportsman magazines and National Geographic kids. And lying about his expeditions and stuff. Yeah. But as soon as he became aware of the hunger for Pulp Fiction, Lafayette, Ron Hubbard knew what he needed to do for six straight weeks. He wrote one short story per day each between forty five hundred and twenty thousand words, which is an insane rate of productivity. Fathom that can you fathom it if the person writing these never edits, anything never even reads over his own stories. He would just type out a story in one long swoop and then mail it off to a random magazine. So there's nobody like continuity errors and like all kinds of consistency relieve details. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Cool. But who gives a shit, they need stories and most of the didn't even get it like he's just brightening so many stories shitting out this, Chris, horrible, horrible, horrible stories. Also the movie Pulp Fiction was based on. But he certainly wasn't influence because he helped to find the John Rao. His stories had titles like green God, calling squad cars, see things dead men, kill and the carnival of death. Ooh, yeah, I would watch some of those movie. No good at title. Of course he would and he was like he, he certainly wasn't bad for Pulp. Fiction writer, he was definitely in the middle of the pack in terms of quality goes, yeah, but he was mostly famous for just, no one else could write this much. Right. And this does seem to be like his real talent was he could just write like a fucking bazooka. It's it was crazy. Yeah, it's really bad, but I, I don't like pope. It's all really bad. Okay. I enjoy HP lovecraft and he's an objectively bad writer. There's fun ideas in it that are scary, but it's not good writing. Of course not good pacing. Stephen King for that man. Yeah, good stories. Sure, great. Horror writer kind of clunky prose. I've actually not read much if any l. no, I've I read the The Shawshank Redemption. Novella that that one. Yeah. And I think Stephen King is like the good version of l. Ron Hubbard because they both are able to write at surgery. But Stephen King was just like, wow, okay. I can just write stories. People enjoy and not create a cult. I was going to be on cocaine. Now I'm just going to do lots of drugs. Stephen King, not L Ron Hubbard if you have this gift. So Ron Hubbard quickly made a name for himself. In the Pulp Fiction set, he started traveling to New York City regularly and became a fixture among pope writers and editors. He made sure they knew him as quote a real character. He portrayed himself as a bad ass who despite his young age had lived a life full of death, defying adventures, some of these men like the writer, Frank Gruber quickly picked Hubbard out as a bullshit artist, quote, one evening Gruber sat through a long account of Ron's experiences in the rain core, his exploration of the upper Amazon and his years as a white hunter in Africa. At the end of it, he asked with obvious sarcasm, Ron, you're eighty four years old. Aren't you? What the hell are you talking about? Ron? Snapped Gruber waved a notebook in which he had been jotting figures. Well, he said you were in the marines, seven years. You were a civil engineer for six years. You spent four years in Brazil. Three in Africa, you barnstorm with your own flying circus for six years. I've just ended up all the years you did this and that comes to eighty four. Good on him. Good him out on his bullshit, but he's still liked Hubbard like even the people pretty much everyone knew he was full of shit for the most part, but they entr. He was fun to be around like his stories were usually entertaining he. He was. He was an interesting guy. Most people seem to like him. All right, yeah. For a while, his career went pretty well in nineteen. Thirty five, Columbia motion pictures, paid him to write a fifteen part film story called the secret of Treasure Island. We would was played in like fifteen different days or something like that during like Saturday morning, man as services like it was a little sequential thing. And this is the only Hollywood thing he was ever involved with. But for the rest of his life, he would claim to be a Hollywood screenwriter and just claimed he had written famous movies that he didn't right. And that there's no evidence he had anything to do with. That's gonna just start doing. Yeah. Yeah. The church of Scientology says he was one of the legends of Hollywood's golden age. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. So yeah, just lie. Yeah, lie claiming you wrote great movies. All right guys, everyone I I wrote the godfather part two. Oh, that was used me produced it. Oh, yeah, we should already know. I mean, I could actually claim that pretty easily. I don't even have to change my name. So the reality is that he tried to start a career as a screenwriter in Hollywood, but he couldn't hack it in. So he moved back east to write more trashy Pulp Fiction in the woods with his wife. He developed a number of pseudonyms for his work with various publications names like Winchester. Remington Colt currently. Just like gun gun gut. Kotze. Gut? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Colt forty five was the most famous handgun in the world at the time I heard that Colt not no, no, no, no. It was three guns gun gun gun gun gun gonna wits. Kurt von Rockin was another, which I think was just like a bad ass sounding German name, Rene Lafayette, which is at least half his real name. Yeah, Joe blitz and legionnaire one forty eight. Okay. Okay. So good name. These are. No, he's got some gifts. Yeah, he's got some gifts. Yeah, is like Asimov like a lot of his fiction. So like he gained some respect within the community. He certainly wasn't seen it was like the worst who's one of the most prominent names in the Pulp Fiction universe. At that point, people talked mostly though about like the rate of speed at which he was able to put out stories. There were rumors that he typed using one incredibly long piece of paper at a time that each story was just one massive scroll that he would roll up when he was done. There were rumors that he built his own keyboard with single keys for the words that he used most often just typed so fast, especially a very smart if that's true, which I don't think it is no evidence. That's smart. Yeah, it would have been smart if he'd done it, ever made enough money to get his own now, custom typewriter. There were stories that editors would just send messengers to his hotel room with cover art and then wait outside while he wrote a story to go with the cover art. So he would just like reverse engineer stories based on these early stories about him, and it's not hard to believe, given the rate at which he produced for sure. Twenty thousand words in a day is insane. I can't even rain three words a day. This script is about eighteen thousand words, and I wrote it in two days and that was a lot of writing so brag. Okay. Well, join my coat just joined Michael. I'm already there baby. Okay. Well, I need a boat. We're going to. I got a whole. I have got a whole abouts. You know what? Not just gentleman Rovers on my boat trip to the Caribbean, where we pretend to be, you're going to let women to how how progressive I want to be able to scam twice as many people, of course. Yeah, absolutely. So obviously, Hubbard eventually turned from writing, you know, adventure tales and cop dramas to writing cheesy science fiction. This is sort of the period in the mid thirties when Sifi starts to blow up as genre. And he was heard of the golden age of science fiction. He wrote alongside guys like already noted, Isaac Asimov, but Robert Hyland else broad the camp. He was like one of the founders of popular science fiction and in nineteen thirty eight. When his writing career was near a tight, he wrote a book called Excalibur, which he never showed to anybody, but constantly claimed was going to change the world. Yeah, Excalibur was a work of philosophy, not a fiction, and it was Hubbard claimed a work of such breathtaking philosophic brilliance that drove everyone who read it to commit suicide. That's why he says he couldn't show it to anybody, the lock it in a Bank vault because people killed themselves when they read as amazing book. Could even that. Okay. Yeah, I can only I can't imagine just wrote a book, so good people shoot themselves. You know that feeling when you finish a really good book and then you go buy a gun. Yeah, yeah, three guns Remington. The other one one name for each of the guns. You'll have to buy when you finish his his amazing book. Some people claim. They actually read copies of this back in thirty eight. Some people claim. He never wrote it. We don't really know if he ever wrote a book and showed it to some people and then shelf did or if it was all the light of again with people who claim that they read drafts of it said that its whole focus was about like the need to survive. That was Hubbard's big. The survival instinct was his big philosophical focus. The thing it was, yeah. So it's like, here's how to survive, but then it drives people to kill them for some reason. Yeah, we don't know what he wrote in the book, but he wrote about the book to a number of people including his wife and in nineteen thirty eight. He wrote her a letter about it. That includes this paragraph to provide some insight. This is Hubbard's writing. The entire function of man is to survive the outermost limit of endeavors creative work. Anything less is too close to simple survival until death happens along. So I'm engaged in striving to maintain equilibrium sufficient to at least realize survival in a way to astound the gods. I turn the thing up, so it's up to me to survive in a big way foolishly perhaps but determined nonetheless, I have high. Hopes for smashing, my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form even if all books are destroyed, that goal is the real goal is far as I am concerned. So this is kind of accomplished is she sure did. No, no, this is way it's hard to hate them. This is a man who set a goal to smash his name in the history did it, and he did in a really shitty scary way, but. Not a failure. I live near L Ron Hubbard lane is a street in Los Angeles. The building we're in, we'll probably do the video later, but the giant church of Scientology building is like right off of our balcony and stuff like he definitely smashed his name into history. And that was his goal at age twenty seven in nineteen thirty eight. So there you go. In the late nineteen thirties, L Ron Hubbard bought a boat in convinced the explorers club to let him carry their flag on a radio. Experimental expedition with his wife. The journey did achieve some useful scientific ends and did help better map the route up to Alaska. So that's nice. Ron's on Marnie suspected. The trip was mainly an excuse for him to convince various companies doubt fit his boat for free because he would write to all of them saying, I'm gonna do this expedition you to send me free shit, which is smart. He got a lot of free shit. His boat did breakdown in Alaska, and he spent most of the trip hanging out at a radio station in a small town in Alaska lying about fighting German saboteurs and grizzly bears and stuff. So again, still spent most of his time lying but did achieve some minor scientific goals. Gotta commend him for that. His second expedition worked a lot better than his first. That's hard to argue with Ron Hubbard did serve his country in World War Two. The exact extent of his service is somewhat open for debate. The official church of Scientology line is that he was commissioned before the war in was present in the Philippines, when Japan invaded he was the first. American casualty in the far east flown home in the secretary of the navy's own airplane. He served in five different theaters of the war in received twenty two medals. I'm going to guess how much of that's true. I would say maybe five percent. None of it, none of it. No, he did enlist before the war. Okay, that's that's the only that's true. He didn't see any combat. He was supposed to have been in the Philippines, and if he had actually been sent there, he might have wound up fighting the Japanese in the Philippines, which would have been a hell of a thing. But while he was on his way to Manila, his commanding officers decided they hated him so much that they sent him home. His, here's his personnel file. This officer is not satisfactory for independent duty assignment. He has garrulous and tries to give impressions of his importance. He also seems to think he has unusual ability in most lines. These characteristics indicate that he will require close supervisions for satisfactory performance of any intelligence duty. He's just like going around, like telling us stupid stories to like anyone who will listen. It was like, get this fucking guy, and then he was lying like actual military intelligence people like no get this guy. We don't want this guy anywhere near a fights, get him the fuck away on them. The military there. Yeah, that said he was better at tricking. Other people in the military should have done. If he did see combat is just give his book Excalibur to all the enemies. And then they would just kill themselves, airdrop, Excalibur could've. We could've used that instead of the nukes those over Japan and in the war we could give him one to Hitler. Dammit l. Ron your gift. So after this, he was sent back to a training center in Georgetown Maine, where he lied and told everyone that he had served extensively on destroyers. His instructors believed him and he became the classroom source for information on destroyer piloting. Even though he had never been in one, he just lied about it. Eventually, Lieutenant Hubbard talked his way into command of an anti-submarine boat, a corvette, the US eight one five talked to the command of a little boat like a PT boat, like a little bitty boat meant to hunt submarines, eight or nine guys on it. But he did talk his way into getting a boat. Wow, he loves boats. He really loves. That's not good with them really bad with the match, but he loves both. The church of Scientology essentially put out fake military paperwork about L Ron Hubbard service. And then journalists went to the actual military, which confirmed like, no, there's no evidence of giving him doing, but according to the church of Scientology's fake military documents for part of the war, Mr. Hubbard was in command of a squadron of corvettes in nineteen forty three, the vessel under his direct command eight. One five was engaged in an action which resulted in the sinking of one Japanese submarine and the disabling of another this incident which took place off the coast of Oregon was described by Mr. Hubbard and a report that he sent to the commander in chief of the Pacific fleet sounds really impressive. Taken out to Japanese subs pretty cool, pretty significant contribution to the war effort protecting Oregon, Oregon's great except for all the racists. So shit that racist line really threw me offers. Second, we're gonna talk about what actually happened in L Ron Hubbard's epic, naval battle with what may have been Japanese submarines, but almost certainly was something interesting. We're going to talk about that in a while. But first Caitlyn, do you love products? You know what? I, I love this product that you're about to hear about. Let's listen to a. It's baritone date, Thurston host of spit, iheartradio's newest podcast, twenty three and me that explores how understanding your DNA changes, how we think about ourselves and the world around us. John legend joins us to discuss how are we all related. We're not a nine point, five percent the same, but that point, five percent is an area. We have been eager to explore those small differences, inspired a lot of discrimination. I feel like we're becoming more connected. I feel like we're learning more about how much we have in common listened to the full episode of spit with twenty three and me. Now in the iheartradio app will wherever you listen to podcasts. And we're back, we're talking about l. Ron Hubbard in his epic, naval battle with a pair of Japanese submarines. So basically what Hubbard claims is that while they were sailing from Oregon, there had been a Japanese bombing raid on Oregon, like I think it was like a balloon or something that had bombs attached with. They did attack a place on the Oregon coast near this time. So everybody was like freaked out and paranoid and Hubbard was sailing down from Oregon and essentially thought that he had sighted a submarine and started dropping depth charges on it and called and other boats for backup in for two days l. Ron Hubbard in like five ships were just bombing the shit out of what he said was Japanese submarines. Nobody else actually dropped any bombs because they, they didn't find anything they were just like sailing around will run Hubbard bombed the ocean at random. It's probably just like a family on a dot and he's like the enemy. It's even better than that. So the navy had a Admiral, Frank Fletcher, who was the operational commander during the battle of midway like a very serious. Admiral dude, investigate the so-called action in which Hubbard had taken out to submarines because Hubbard when he got back to base claim that he destroyed one submarine in winded another most likely actual research found out that what had happened is there was just a magnetic iron ore deposit on the sea floor that had food with his instruments, and he'd spent two days and dropped more than one hundred depth charges on the lump of metal. Lieutenant Hubbard was furious when his commanders wouldn't recognize the heroism displayed in recklessly bombing, the ocean. Now, this was not a great move for his career. The navy doesn't like it. When you bomb the ocean, think is a is a prospector. He would understand at deposit of metal, but if he was a real prospector, yeah. So the good news is that he had an opportunity to redeem himself a couple of weeks later when he recklessly Sheldon uninhabited Mexican island, and then ordered his men to fire their weapons into the water around the island. Officially, he says, this was an unapproved gunnery training exercise Mexico said it was an American boat firing wildly on Mexican land. And so they weren't happy with this. So Hubbard lost his boat as a result of attacking Mexico. He loves boats, the Admiral who looked over listen, reassigned him rated him as below average in said that he should be put on a large boat where he could be properly supervised. So for the rest of the war, he would spend more time in naval hospitals than serving on ships while he. Claim to Robert Heinlein and his other writer friends that he'd been some four times and wounded repeatedly. There's no evidence that he ever suffered any service related injuries. He did come down with a duodenal ulcer during his time in the military, but that's about it. Nothing is the result of combat. What is that just an ulcer of your in your guts, guts. Okay. Yeah. So after the war, L Ron Hubbard would spend most of his time lying about several and verifiable service related injuries to the VA in order to get more disability benefits. I spent years doing this. This was most of his writing in the first two years after the war was lying to the VA about the extent of his injuries to try to get more money out of them words a day. Yeah. Yeah. Money. He did eventually get a forty percent disability payment, but it was it was for nonsense. So right around this time, he abandoned his wife to hang out in a black magic sex mansion in Pasadena. What do you mean. That's weird to you. Okay. Those is a lot of information. It is. Okay. You'd expect it to be more interesting than it really his wife to hang out and black magic sex Colt sex mansions, sex mansion. There's this guy named Jack persons. Who was you've heard of Alister Crowley? No. Okay. Alastair Croly was like a Philemon this like black magic sort of thing. He was a magic guy. He wrote a bunch about it. He was very prominent in that industry and like one of his industries, they're on where it, but whatever the magic string one, the magic industry. One of his acolytes was a guy named Jack Parsons who was like a rich kid who owned a mansion in Pasadena, and they touch briefly on this in going clear a, yeah, it's it's weird in murky. I don't think Hubbard ever believed much of it, but Hubbard wanted to fuck the ladies that Jack parson had around him because Jack was like, had a poly-amorous thing going on because it was like, we we're beyond, you know, all the constraints and Hubbard Hubbard just went in there to like Steelers girlfriends, basically install twenty thousand dollars from. Because he got Parsons to invest in a yacht company and then just bought a yacht for himself and the girlfriend the boat out to move away. So we lived on a yacht for a while until he had to sell it. Yeah, the whole black magic sex mentioned thing isn't as interesting as it ought to be. They did try to summon the anti Christ. Yeah, but it was kind of boring to be honest bummer. Yeah. Yeah, you would have hoped for more of a tail there, but I think it's all nonsense. So on August tenth, nineteen. Forty, six. He married the woman that he had taken away from this black magic sex mansion the twenty one year old. Sara Northrup. He married her thirty miles away from where he married his first wife, Polly thirteen years ago. He was still technically married to Polly. So this was bigamy, but he's not like actively living with both of them. He's just he never before? No, he he. He never told his first wife what he just ran away. She had no idea where he was. I mean, we'll go huband in their kids to they had like two kids. Yeah, he just abandoned his kids in his family stole a guy's money to buy a yacht, and then. Twenty one year old. They really dodged a bullet that first family of his, they did you get the feeling she's angry that he's a creep, you don't get the feeling. They feel like they missed out on not having run hovered around. During this time after he wed, Sarah Hubbard started selling more stories. Again, got back into writing Pulp Fiction. He sold several stories to an editor named Sam Merwin who said of him quote, I found him a very amusing guy and bought several stories from him. He was really quite a character. I always knew he was exceedingly anxious to hit big money. He used to say he thought the best way to do it would be the start a cult. So this is like nineteen Forty-six. The first time when Hubbard you know, starts putting out feelers that like he wants to start his own religion boats called the coke. Moving up where the money is. He eventually moves up to boat Colt. Right. The whole, the whole journey. Yeah. On April fourteenth nineteen. Forty, seven, Ron's first wife, Polly filed for divorce on the grounds that her husband had abandoned her and their children seems pretty fair fair. She had no idea who he was living with. She had no idea. He was already married to somebody else, but that changed three weeks later when Ron moved into the home, he'd once occupied with his first wife with a second wife. His family was furious about this because his mom and dad had been taken care of his first wife and their kids and putting them up so they they're really angry about this. This is kind of win his aunt Marnie soured on him. Well, we loved him as a child, but he's a perfect stranger to us now. So I'm glad they realized that seems to have changed in late nineteen. Forty, seven, L Ron Hubbard met the man who had become his lifelong literary agent Forrest Ackerman after their first meeting Hubbard drove forest home and told him along and insane story about how he died on the operating table and visited heaven. He would claim a number of times in his life to visited heaven. He wants to be visited heaven, six or seven million years apart. He and multiple lives. Here's how forest recalled L Ron Hubbard driving him home telling him about is yet. I remember he had an old rattled trap of a car and he was chewing tobacco as he drove you with open the tour with one hand and squirt tobacco juice set under their. When we got to my apartment, we sat outside in the car. Will he continued with the story? It was after five o'clock in the morning and the sun was coming up before he had finished. Okay. And then he was like better Representative sky as his literary age. I think he was like, this is a mother fucker who can tell the story. Yeah, I think he made a lot of money off. So Hubbard told Ackerman about Excalibur his suicide inducing visionary philosophy now I almost forgot. Yeah, almost forgot. Don't worry. He never did. He claimed it had been rejected by publishers quote. He was told it was too radical too much of a quantum leap. If it had been a variation of Freud or young or Ostler a bit of an improvement here or there it would have been acceptable, but it was just too far ahead of everything else. He also said that SE shopped the manuscript around the people who read it either went insane or committed suicide. The last time he showed it to a publisher. He was sitting in an office waiting for a reader to give his opinion. The reader walked into the office, tossed the manuscript on the desk and then threw himself out the window. Ron would not tell me much about Excalibur except that if you read it, you would find all fear would be totally drained from you. I could never see what was wrong with that or why it would cause anyone to commit suicide. Right? Yeah. Also, this is going to be my excuse as a is a failed screenwriter. I'm just going to like, well by screenplays are really good in. They just get rejected because people die. Okay. Hubbard continued to sell Sifi short stories during this period making just enough money to stay alive, but not quite enough to live comfortably or stay in one place with his new wife. His most successful series was the old doc Methuselah adventures. These are futuristic tales about a space, traveling physician adventure with an alien sidekick, slave who cries whenever the doctor tries to free him. It does seem that these might have been influenced doctor who, but I don't know that, but it was about like an immortal doctor traveling through the universe solving mysteries and stuff with a sleigh with a slave. Yeah, it may may have been pretty popular l. Ron wasn't exactly a genius, but he was probably one of the ten most notable names in science fiction at this time. At some point, he earned the attention of John w Campbell who was very famous editor. He's some people call him the father of science fiction. Yeah, Mary Shelley's probably the mother and founder of the discipline, but he was the editor of astounding science fiction, like most of the greats of the scifi golden age worked with him, and he was apparently really, really, really good editor and he liked l. Ron Hubbard. But his work with Ron would be something outside of the scifi genre c Hubbard at this time decided that he didn't wanna keep writing short stories and dime store novels. He wanted the respect. He thought he was entitled as a philosopher. So in January of nineteen forty nine l. Ron Hubbard wrote a letter to his agent and promised him a book on philosophy. Here's how bare faced messiah summed it up. Ron promise that among the handy household hints contained in the book was information on how to quote rape women without their knowing it communicates suicide messages to your enemies as they sleep. So the Arroyo Seco Parkway to the mayor for cash and evolve the best way of protecting or destroying communism. He had not decided he added casually whether to destroy the Catholic church or. Merely start a new one. There's a lot in that paragraph. Yeah. How do you even start on Pak that? I mean, some of that is like nineteen forty. Nine people would be like, oh yeah, teach guys out of rape Shaw. It's the forties. Everyone was terrible. Is just garbage year. Buckle up. Not get more pro woman. Actually, I'll say this for L Ron Hubbard. I kept expecting him to be a rapist. I have no evidence that he was a rapist. All right, no accusations or anything like that, which you really expect with these guys really do, especially if he's taking that sort of especially saying that sorta stance. Well, also society's understanding of what rape was back then was different. Later that year rumors began to spread in the science fiction community that L Ron Hubbard was up to something new. He was planning to reveal a new science of the mind. Something that didn't seem as odd to people then as it does to us. Now, science fiction in already developed an uncanny reputation for predicting the future. Science fiction writers had been the ones who sort of called nuclear bombs and stuff like that had been predicted. So head space travel and everything by science fiction writers. So there was a real belief in the community that like something brilliant was going to be borne out of all this fiction. So they were ready for a Sifi author to create a new science like that. Didn't seem crazy to people like nowadays, someone's like the air about this new science fiction writer whose launching a science. Okay. Okay. That's not where you do it, right? Yeah, that December of nineteen forty nine. John Campbell published in editor in the December issue of astounding science fiction. He revealed the imminent release of L Ron Hubbard's new science Dianetics done. Don Don Don Don quote from John Campbell. Its power is almost unbelievable. It proves the mind not only can, but does rule the body completely following the sharply-defined basic laws set forth physical ills such as odors asthma and arthritis can be cured as can all other psychosomatic ills. So John Campbell was a believer because l. Ron Hubbard had already used his revolutionary new science to cure the editors chronic sinusitis. Okay. Most of the work of Dianetics revolved around sitting down with an auditor in remembering old traumatic incidents from ones past Campbell believed Hubbard had taken him back to the moment of his birth, which somehow fixed his nose. I don't know. He believed it in mid nineteen fifty before the publication of his book on Dianetics L Ron Hubbard attended the last meeting of his life is a simple science fiction writer who was a convention in Newark, a sort of prototype for Comecon, like events of today during the meeting, Hubbard is reported to have said writing for a penny. A word is ridiculous. If a man really wanted to make a million dollars the best way to do would be to start his own religion. In April of nineteen fifty Campbell teas that coming in June, a sixteen thousand word article and Dianetics would be in the magazine titled Dianetics and introduction to a new science in his hype article. Campbell related the story of an amputee veteran who Hubbard had saved basically claim that like this guy had been hit by a mortar shell and like while the medics were coming through afterwards, there were like this guy's hopeless. He's better off dead anyway. And then he wound up surviving, but he like wanted to kill himself. 'cause the this he had read Excalibur no, no, because the memory of these medic saying that he was better off dead had gotten lodged in his brain, and that was what Dianetics was all about is bad memories get misfiled in your brain and you have to go through with this auditing therapy and refile them basically. So Hubbard in Campbell, succeeded in wangling support from an actual medical doctor for their science. You gotta remember nineteen forty, nine sciences, and it's pretty rudimentary, it's not an exact science. There's a lot of nonsense going on in science and guide. Dr winter sits in on several auditing sessions because they would run. Auditing sessions on just Sifi fans that Campbell brought in performing quasi psychiatry on strangers who walked in off the street and just like reading science fiction. But yeah, eventually Dr. Winter agreed to go through a session himself in found it really compelling. He added that in the other patients he'd observed, the changes were obvious and people seem to be cheerful and relaxed and feel better after they got out of Dianetics session. So he figured maybe there's something do this like the seems like it might be a real science. It really seems like what was going on as psychotherapy was pretty new as a discipline. At this point assure in Dianetics which just sort of repackaging psychotherapy with different names, but like there's a benefit in sitting down with your friends and talking about you're talking about your feeling. Yeah, that's what he was doing. So that's what people found benefit with because like nineteen forty, nine people didn't talk about their feelings. Men didn't talk fees. So there was a benefit to this. It wasn't Hubbard's genius. It was just the benefit of sitting down and talking about your feelings. Dr winter actually tried to publish an article on Hubbard's methods, but the journal of the AMA and the American journal psychiatry both rejected his papers. They said that he and Hubbard had neglected to provide any clinical evidence that their techniques worked. In fact, it seemed that they were just ripping off the basic techniques of psychotherapy, giving everything new names and making wild claims about repressed memories. Many scifi fans, though we're interested in this new science being launched via phantom, although several fans wrote to Campbell to complain that all he wrote about now with Dianetics for the most part, people seemed really excited as as a mauve though did read an early copy of the Dianetics article and proclaim it gibberish not everybody was onboard in may of nineteen fifty. The science of Dianetics was released in the form most befitting, a serious new scientific discipline, a science fiction fantasy Pulp Fiction magazine, here's the cover of the issue where Dianetics was announced to scrub the cover of that astounding science fiction magazine. With the new science being launched in it, it's this man appears to have hair all over his body. It's drawing alien. Yeah, it's like he very agro looking man was for. He's appears to be wearing like a mask over his is his cat like is. Yeah. Yeah. He is crossing his arms. He's very angry about something. And yeah, just he looks like a creature, slush alien slashed werewolf. Yeah. In most of the magazine that week was just a bunch of random science fiction stories. This was from the helping hand, I guess, about some alien coming to earth to help or or whatever the article that launch Dianetics was also in this magazine in the article Hubbard explained that the brain was basically like a computer and likely computer. It has the potential to operate with perfect recall and recollection mental illness was caused by memories that it essentially gotten misfiled in the brain, and you could refile everything. You can make brains function perfectly and you'd remember everything. And just human beings could be perfected by this new mental science that L Ron Hubbard had essentially developed. So yeah, he called these memories. They got misfiled in grams. And so like if a child got bitten by a dog when he was too, she might not remember getting bitten by the dog, but the Ingraham would be stuck in her and it could be. Stimulated by sights and sounds that were similar to what had been going on around her when the dog better and that could cause distress. The purpose of Dianetic theory was essentially to gain access to the in grams and what he called the reactive memory banks of the mind and refile them in the analytical part of the mind. So you wouldn't react to them a logically. So that was how he justified the science behind Dianetics sounds like nonsense because it is nonsense. Now. Hubbard claimed that if the earliest in grams in the brain which usually happened around childbirth could be located in refiled person's analytical mind would reach new heights at productivity and success. Individuals who cleared their earliest in grams would be called clear and they would have perfect memory recall in a total immunity from all psychological illnesses. Many physical wants to in may of nineteen fifty Dianetics the modern science of mental health reach bookstores across the nation. It's publisher Hermitage house only printed six thousand copies for its first run. They were not expecting a major success. The book was a guide for to carry out auditing sessions as described by Hubbard and. Campbell in the readers on home Hubbard was basically, yeah, providing address up guide for people to perform unlicensed psychotherapy on their friends and family. Very safe. Yeah, Dianetics. The book was a profoundly anti-woman terrorist greed. A feminist icon feminist icon l. Ron Hubbard claimed that attempted abortions were the single most common cause of pre birth. In grams quote, a large proportion of allegedly feeble minded. Children are actually attempted abortion cases, however, many billions America's spins yearly. I've institutions for the insane and jails for criminals are spent primarily because of attempted abortions done by some sex block mother, to whom children are a curse, not a blessing of God. All these things are scientific facts tested and recheck and tested. Again. He's like a pro life pro rape again, feminist icon. All right. He believed that other Ingraham's came for abusive husbands. For example, if a husband beat his pregnant wife and yelled take it, take it. I tell you've got to take the child might interpret those words literally and become a thief because take it Zo Ron Hubbard. He thought a pregnant woman suffering from constipation might sit on the toilet and you know, be in horrible pain and go, oh, this is hell. I'm all jammed up inside. I feel so stuffy. I can't think this is too terrible to be born. And so the child would think that they were so terrible. They didn't deserve to be born because their mom couldn't poop specific thing for him to write. She likes to what a woman leads say, yes, so. Okay, that's great. Really interesting. He thought a lot of prenatal in grams. And in fact, the worst prenatal in grams were caused by women cheating on their husbands because he assumed that a woman cheating on her husband would talk shit about her husband to her lover and that the fetus developing would hear this. And since many kids had the same names as their fathers, he would think that his mom was talking about. About him. Weird, right? You know how fetuses understand language perfectly. That's that's what they're most famous for. This is new language skills. Many of these ideas are still present in Scientology today, for example, about a second worth googling, brought me to a Scientology parent website and a page on that website titled why silent birth? It quotes Ron Hubbard a woman who wants her child to have the best possible chance. We'll find a doctor who will agree to keep quiet, especially during the delivery and Hulu insist upon silence being maintained in the hospital delivery room as far as is humanly possible. Because of course, any yelling during birth would give the child and the doctor's like, come on now, push the fetus. The baby is going to be like, oh, I'm supposed to push people down. Exactly. You know, just be Shelvin. Yeah, and that's why our streets are filled with covers Syrian shelving people every day because I was given birth ABS always be shoving. Scheming and Chavez gaming and shopping. Both important Dianetics was not an instant success, but within the first couple of weeks of publication, it spread very widely enough to earn bestseller status in provoke its first negative. Press the New York Times wrote bad stuff about it, a reviewer from new Republic savaged. It basically claimed it was it was nonsense whatever makes sense in his discoveries does not belong to him. And his own theory appears to this reviewer as a paranoiac system, which would be of interest as part of a case history, but which seems quite dangerous when offered for mass consumption. Is that therapeutic technique? Probably fair someone knew what they were talking about. Yeah. All the experts were like, this is bad idea. The reviewer also noted that in addition to being able to cure psychosomatic illness, Hubbard claimed Dianetics could treat cancer and diabetes. The experts of course cried out that this was dangerous nonsense, but no one listened Hubbard sold fifty, five thousand copies in the first two months after release. He was finally rich. So in thirty nine, short years, I'll run Hubbard had gone from fake blood brother of the blackfoot Indian tribe to a fake war hero. Real trash novelist and had now ascended. The lofty heights of a pop psychiatry guru. Dianetics was officially a fat, but Hubbard had a plan to keep this fed going long past. It's rational expiration date, and that is what we're going to get into in part two. Yeah, we haven't even gotten to the establishment of Scientology I know, or the establishment of his boat Colt. I'm so much more call so much more to get into Caitlyn Durante. You wanna plug your plug up holes. I would simply love to you can listen to my podcast, the Bechtel cast at how stuff works follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Petco cast, and you can follow me on those places as well at Caitlyn. Toronto and you can find me on Twitter at I right. Okay. Find this podcast on the internet at behind the bastards dot com. Pictures that wonderful issue the science and yeah, check us out on Instagram, Twitter at bastards pod. You can buy our t shirts on t. public behind the bastards. So go do that. Wash your brains off, come back tomorrow and here another hour or so about Ron Hubbard being fucking nut bar. It's going to be great. Then. 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Behind the Bastards
Aired 4 months ago 63:00
Part Two: L. Ron Hubbard: The Greatest Con-Man In History
Hello. I'm Anna REEs and I'm Laurin vocal bomb and our show foodstuff all about these islands, history and culture. Food and drink is relaunching as saver re along with our super producer, Dylan Fagin are hitting the road to find the stories behind all the things we like to eat and drink. We will be talking to the culinary creators and eaters of the world to get to the bottom of why we like what we like and how we can find more of those things. On our first trip, we went to Asheville North Carolina, a city that pulled itself out of a seventy year economic depression with beer and food. Neil episodes will be coming out Wednesday and Friday on apple podcasts. Hello friends. I'm Robert Evans, and this once again behind the bastards to show that tells you everything you don't know about the very worst people in all of history. Now, this is part two of our three part series on L Ron Hubbard pm. Listen to part one. I recommend doing that now for those of you who are back from Tartu, you're listening to this the day after part one is dropped, but we are recording them all in one terrible marathon fell swoop. So you're Addison the point if this were an actual marathon. This is about mile five, where you starting to feel good. You've hit a stride, you're happy with the progress, but midway through this is when we're gonna hit our wall, and it's just gonna break both as human beings and is creative artists. So that should be really exciting for all you people. And then the third episode we won't even be human beings will just be shattered remnants of souls hanging onto meager office. Yeah, Graham in grams in a meat packing anyway, you ready? So ready. Let's do this. So people regularly message me on Twitter. Suggest new candidates for episodes of this podcast. Sometimes their suggestions are spot on and I do appreciate them. But I get a lot of people who will suggest shitty people like Ben Shapiro, Iran, Paul or Brad Kavanagh, and I'm not going to do an episode on in these people because while they're shitty, they're all kind of lame like they're not interesting in a bad way. We all know the ways in which they're bad. Like Brett cavenaugh, everyone who thinks he's bad, understands everything about him is a shitty person. That's public knowledge. I liked to cover people who are shitty and exceptional. And that's why I picked l. Ron Hubbard this week because I really do think we talked about this a little in the first episode. I think he may be the greatest conman who ever lived. So today is a story about we. We ended the last episode with the establishment of Dianetics as a science kind of how he build it. He can think of anyone. Jordan Peterson, he's like that sorta guy where he, you know, normally guy that gets six months year of prominence or so, right where everybody loves their new pop philosophy book, and then we just sorta shovel them. Into the coal fire of our culture in forget about them and move on and other years, someone else will come up. We'll be obsessed with that for a little while l. Ron Hubbard avoided letting that happen to him. And this episode is the story of how of how he thought against fallen into obscurity. Take notes during this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you want to become a guru and then transmit that grew into starting your own world, religion, this is the first class you've got to take on that because l. Ron Hubbard is the master. Yep. Well, there's, that's why that is called the master. Yeah, just got it. The master is really just got okay. So within two months of publishing Dianetics more than five hundred different Dianetics groups had started across the United States out Ron Hubbard began offering classes in Dianetics that were like two hundred fifty, five hundred dollars a piece and holding conferences established different centers in different states and whatnot foundations. He called them in the money, started pouring in Hubbard's work, developed a rapid fan base who blanketed newspapers with. Angry letters when they provided critical commentary was sort of like an early example of what now happens every time anyone insults anybody popular? Yes. Like the first edition of the Elon Musk's internet hate mob was L Ron Hubbard's fans of Dianetics sinning, angry letters to the New York Times. One of the heads of Hubbard's troll brigade was a political science professor from Massachusetts named Frederick Shuman. In one letter to the New York Times, he wrote history has become a race between Dianetics and catastrophe Dianetics will win if enough people are challenged in time to understand it. Now, the reason that people thought this was so important was because L Ron Hubbard who claimed that Dianetics was not just a path to personal betterment. It was a way to cure people of mental illness of psychopathy, but also it was a way to if everyone did Dianetics if everybody that came clear Hubbard said there'd be no more war. And this was again, you're talking about nineteen fifty. The specter of nuclear extermination has just arisen for the first time. So people are freaked out that like we're gonna murder the whole species which we probably will at some point. Right Hubbard is claiming with Dianetics. We can denuclearize the world. We can all live in peace. You know, this is what will save humanity from the darkness of the Cold War in America ended up for the first time in his life. L Ron Hubbard became the focus of national attention which is clearly what he'd wanted his entire life. Yeah. So suddenly he was being interviewed by a lot of journalists and newsmen, and of course they asked him about his childhood and his background, and this is when he was held at all about. I was a blood brother of the blackfoot drive across the country. Yeah, don't go. I would. I was pirates of the Caribbean. What's your life? If you were to write like a Twitter post tomorrow? That becomes the bible of the world, six months later for some crazy piece of internet alchemy suddenly, suddenly everybody's talking to kaitlin Durrani and wants to know like, what did you grow up? What's the lie you choose to tell? Oh, I mean, I'm just such an honest person that I can't even make up a live every in have your own religion with that attitude. I think the closest thing I would would be that I'm from punks Tony, Pennsylvania, the home of the groundhog. Of course, that's a lame line, I know, but it it. The truth is that I'm from a town about twenty miles away, but it's just easier to say, yeah, I'm from punks Tonga's not even a, that's like, let's like growing up in Mesa and claiming you live in Phoenix like it's just making it easy for somebody just so brutally honest that I can't even fathom lying. Let me tell you how I do it. No point in my life would, yes. Okay. So Abubaker albuque- daddy, the founder of ISIS, probably dead, right. I would just lie and say, I killed him because I was over in Iraq around that time. So there's a kernel of truth. It's easy enough to make up the rest of the lighter and nobody who doesn't fact check. That would be my lie. Okay. If this the internet wasn't here, it would be easier. The internet exists would be easy to prove it wrong. But if there was like nineteen fifty, I could probably lie and big people believe that. It's so hard to fact check in pre internet. Everyone's just like, I guess he was a blood. I'm not gonna ask blackfoot Indian about whether or not they have blood brothers. Talked to somebody who's not white? No, sir. This is the New York Times, right? Although in fairness, the New York Times, they were actually very critical. I picked the name of the newspaper. I slandered, great lady. Let's get back to the story before I commit slandering. So L Ron Hubbard started in addition to lying about his background, claiming that all of his years of work as a trashy scifi writer and his globetrotting adventures were all research. You know, this was him studying human psychology and the human mind in order to develop his revolutionary new philosophy, all of his his travels adventures that were not real. We're him studying history in ancient cultures to figure out the kernels of truth. He told parade magazine that he'd had a child with his new wife, Sarah Hubbard, which was true. He claimed the child was that world's first Dianetics baby. He claimed to have protected her from noise and even parental conversations in order to keep her from developing any in grams. As a result of this. He said she'd started talking at three months in crawling at four months. Oh, it's going to get Tarum neglected as baby by like not talking to it or. Well, if I know anything about babies, it's that they thrive when isolated and neglected. Yes, I think that everyone says it about babies. Yeah, that that's why most cradles are dark rooms in the basement. That's how you raise again. Just a few months after the debut of Dianetics onto the world stage L Ron Hubbard introduced Sonya Bianca as the world's first clear. He claimed that she had quote full and perfect recall of every moment of her life and then brought her out in front of an audience to prove it. Unfortunately, Sonya was just a twenty one year, old physics major who did not have perfect recall her entire life. So the audience immediately started asking your stuff like what did you have for breakfast on October? Third, nineteen? Forty two. What's on page one twenty two of Dianetics and she couldn't answer any of this. At least get like an improv actor. Yeah, I had that omelet someone to lie, right? Yeah. At one point Hubbard turned his back and someone asked her what color has tie was, and she couldn't even answer that. So this is like it. It's a Bockel this first attempt to reveal clear, but it teaches Hubbard a powerful lesson which is never ever put yourself in a position where people can prove you're wrong. Like if you're gonna hold events and stuff, you got a stage-managed that shit so that it goes exactly the way you want. He would be more careful in the future. He did come up with insane Dianetics logic to justify why she hadn't been able to perfectly recall everything. He said that when he'd called her up and asked her to come out now the word now had frozen her in present time and temporarily interrupted her perfect memory. Wow, makes sense to me the mental gymnast back on board. So the whole event was at a buck, oh, but it hardly put a dent in the progress of Dianetics in less than a year. The new science had made enough money to buy four and a half million dollar mansion in Los Angeles. So Hubbard could manage his new operation in style. It was the old California governor's mansion, which is weird because the capitals not in Los Angeles. I don't know what we had a governor's mansion in l. but he bought it all that money attracted attention from the government. And from the media, there were from this point on kind of regular looks into him from the FBI and stuff just because he's making a lot of money. He's not paying taxes on a lot of it. He's being very shady with it. Barbara k. worked with him at this time. She was a PR assistant for Mr. Hubbard. She later noted in interviews that quote, he was having a lot of political and organizational problems with people grabbing for power. He didn't trust anyone and he was highly paranoid. He thought the CA had hitmen after him. We'd be walking along the street and I would ask, why are you walking so fast? He would look over his shoulder and say, you don't know what it's like to be a target. No one was after him. It was all delusion. Barbara would go onto. Have an affair with uttered who'd since lost interest in his second wife, Sarah, the two worked closely together and often travel together. So the great leader could administer the far-flung chunks of his burgeoning new empire. At one point, he leased an apartment at the Chateau more Mont for them to share in order to reassure Barbara of their relationship. Ron walked through the apartment and said, this is your closet. This is your dressing table. This is your toothbrush two days later. She found all of her possessions that she'd left in the apartment on a bag at her desk run Hubbard's wife, Sarah, and their baby had moved to Los Angeles and Hubbard had put them up in the apartment. He'd written for himself in Barbara. Later in the day, he apologized to her called his wife a bitch and said, I miss you. Then he asked her to have dinner with him and his wife that night. His wife present. Yeah. Yeah. He he wanted to have dinner with them, so she wouldn't think that he was having an affair with Barbara. Okay. All right. Dan, inner interviews with Russell Miller, Barbara admitted that she felt almost uncontrolled drawn towards l. Ron Hubbard because you'd get pissed him a lot for being a creep. But quote, I was completely infatuated. I remember I said to my roommate, we had a small apartment in Beverly Hills. If I ever tell you I am marrying this guy, I want you to time. Yup, and not letting the out the door because he's a lunatic, but I didn't trust myself not to do it because I was so enchanted by him, being with him was like watching a fascinating character playing a role on stage. I was never bored with him. He was a magical, delightful man, a great raconteur, very bright in the musing and a very gentle patient and sweet lover. Oh, so so he has learned to he. She had, she says, he's learned to fuck, and she's clearly recognizes he's a nut. So she has no reason to lie about this, right? I'm gonna guess he'd learned how to fuck good on him. So everyone. Good news l. Ron Hubbard learned to fuck. All right. That's a t shirt. That's a t-shirt. Someone do some art for L, Ron Hubbard learn to fuck shirt, so we can get really sued by the church of Scientology like ludicrously suit. Our numbered condoms, maybe l. Ron Hubbard dental dam. That's the one. Wow. Yeah, he was gentle lover. It's dental dam says, here's Barbara again at the time I recognized early on that he was also deeply disturbed. Some of the things he told me we're really bizarre, but I never knew what to believe. He said his mother was a lesbian and that he had found her in bed with another woman and that he had been born as the result of Emmett tempted abortion. He talked a lot about his grandfather who could really hold his liquor and played a fiddle with the head of a negro carved on the end. But he never talked about his father and never once mentioned. He had children. I did not know. He had a son until I read it in the newspapers years later. There's a lot in that paragraph to also wasn't the federal Qatar. Okay, guitar, he's lying about it. Instruments forgotten what kind of instrument with the weirdly racist, carving his grandpa. I don't know. I'm gonna give him a pass on that one. That's so close to the truth that it counts, honesty out of L Ron Hubbard's mouth. Yes. I don't even know what to say about the part of what this makes me think that maybe he did think that his mom had tried to abort him heard no evidence of this, but he seems to be obsessed with the idea. So maybe he thought that I don't know also like he was as we heard in part one like the beloved like baby, like everyone loved him in the family. So like what that it does seem, and I'm this'll become clear that he had a persecution complex. There's part of him that wanted to be hunted that one of the government after him. So he may have just had a really happy family life and wanted to invent like this dark backstory for himself. This is real life was kind of boring. At one point, Barbara wind with him to San Francisco, and they attended a welcoming party at the house of a local diagnosis to adored L Ron Hubbard Barbara caught the great man in the kitchen making out with the host's wife when they got back to the hotel, she refused to sleep with Hubbard and he shouted, they're all against me. L. Ron l.. By the winter of nineteen fifty Dianetics had grown way way too fast for its britches. Hubbard establish too many schools in too many places, and it couldn't cover their own bills lead also hired way too many people Dr winter, the guy who helped make Dianetics look, legitimate left the organization after several people develop psychosis during auditing one attendee. Turns out damage people by doing this? Yeah. Have an untrained people try to do psychotherapy. It's a mixed bag. Lesson learned lesson. Well, no, no. Didn't learn any lesson this lesson flew way over everybody said and still has won ten de of a dynamic center. In Elizabeth New Jersey noted, quote, people had breakdowns quite often. It was always hushed up before anyone found out about it happened to a guy in my course, a chemical engineer. They wanted to get him out of the school and volunteered to stay with him in an adjoining building. He never slept her eight and was in a terrible state. No one could do anything with him in the end. They took him off to an asylum. Yeah. Yeah, good. So Dr winter leaves in a number of the people who had, I think Campbell starts distancing himself from all of us at this point, number of people who had been backers of Dianetics sort of step away after because Hubbard just immediately goes to light crazy shirt like right away. 'cause he'd been waiting for this whole life, which guys, Campbell again, Campbell's the editor of the science fiction editor. He's like a fan of his. Yeah. When Dr winner left Hubbard announced that the doctor had been engaged in a scheme to take over the foundation rather than just him being like, this isn't working out so he can't take accountability for anything. Oh, good Lord, no, no, no l. Ron. Hubbard take accountability for something that is not the story. We're reading. Sounds like this is to end really well. So problems with Dianetics were compounded by Hubbard's problems at home in nineteen fifty one, his wife, Sarah attempted suicide l. run audited her afterwards and claim to have recovered in Graham that told him his wife. Suicide attempt had been caused by a phone call from Barbara about work related business. Hubbard interrogated Barbara about this, and she actually wrote a record of the conversation in her diary and it's pretty fun. Oh. Me Barbara. You make a habit of instilling in grams too. Don't you? That's fine. That's good behavior for the founder of Dianetics Hubbard. Isn't it exciting for you being upon of such a grand chessboard you are playing for the world? Can you think of anything more exciting, Barbara. I don't give a good goddamn about the world. I want a single gratifying human relationship. Hubbard you couldn't have one, you're an ambitious woman. You crave power, you're a Marie, Antoinette Cleopatra, Lucretia Borgia you must have a Caesar and Alexander you get the idea. She told him he needed her more than she needed him, and he responded in nineteen thirty nine. I was very much in love with the girl. She felt that way too. When I knew she had a boyfriend coming up. I waited on the stairway with a gun just for a moment. Then I said they are flies. I realized who in what I wasn't left. I told her I would leave her free to marry a sharpie with a cigar in his mouth from Muncie Indiana, would you like to be left free? So. Hovers. All right. About either this is just how all run Hubbard response to someone trying to break up with him. I guess. I don't know. I could not find out what a sharpie with a cigar in his mouth. Oh means is an insult marker. I mean, I understand why Muncie Indiana is an insult. And if there's any fans from Muncie in the end, let me know. Offended. You know, we do have a lot of Pittsburgh fans. I'm gonna give another shoutout to Pittsburgh. It has no bearing on the story too far from punks Tani where I'm from your learning. You're Hubbard. So this seems to have prompted a Ron Hubbard to fire Barbara in break off the affair temporarily. Although he would try to reengage it a couple of times his marriage though was already doomed. At that point. His wife. Sarah had begun to date Dianetics named miles Hollister who she'd met when Hubbard had forced his mistress to go on a double date with him and his wife, and she brought miles along and his wife wound up with miles a messy tale. And miles is apparently like a handsome, nice intelligent guy. So Hubbard was obviously furious at all. Yeah, it was around this point in nineteen fifty one when l. Ron Hubbard decided to start drinking his followers based on nothing. Really. He came to the conclusion that a mix of benzedrine which is a type of speed, insane doses of vitamins and glutamic acid would help make auditing more effective. He called this chemical mixture g UK coordinators agent you supposed to take it every two hours for at least twenty four hours. So it was like really crazy doses of speed in vitamins and taking enough would allow you to release the in grams within you without the need for an auditor. So that was Hubbard's claim. It didn't work out Dianetics quickly abandoned this practice, but Ron Hubbard never give up on the idea of dosing people with absurd amounts of vitamins. Okay, gain, unspecified them beat. Well, you need it too much v. The late seventies after Scientology was established the church. He developed a variety of Scientology focused rehab centers Narconon for drugs, criminal for crimes. Just to name to one treatment method used in these programs was the purification rundown or still is which is basically you sit in a sauna for days and take huge amounts of vitamins. Notable people have died in these facilities for variety of reasons. One Oklahoma facility lost four patients in the space of three years, so don't do that. Don't overdose on, don't give people fatal doses of vitamins for no good reason. But you know, you should take fatal doses of. That's not the right way to introduce ads. You don't. You should take the right amount of is the ads that we have. I'm gonna eat a dorito you guys can by the way the the simply organic white cheddar. Doritos, really good, really tasty. Here's some ads that paid us. Hi, I'm Robert Evans from behind the bastards. And if you're anything like me, you're scared of people seem what you do on the internet because you look at a lot of crazy stuff. So I am here to recommend Nord VPN sa- great VPN service that I use myself in this era of voting machines getting hacked by teenagers at Defcon and Facebook, you know, exposing thousands of people's passwords. It's a good idea to have good digital hygiene. You know, most routers are not adequately updated to protect from security flaws. You're putting yourself at risk whenever you attach your computer, do an open wifi network. So with Nord VPN you know, not only do they not take logs of anything you're you're seeing. They've got military grade encryption. They run everything through tour network as well. You know, it'll help you get past the great firewall. If you're in China, it can, you know, protect you in the Middle East. If you're in places like the UAE, it's just a great VPN. It'll keep you safe online and it's kind of the the minimum you need to do to be protecting yourself right now on these hacker full days on the internet. So start protecting your internet experience today with sixty six percent off a two year plan by using the code bastards at Nord VPN dot com. Slash bastards. That's promo code bastards at Nord VPN dot com. Slash bastards risk free thirty day money back guarantee. And we're back. We're back in just eight a couple of white cheddar, organic, Doritos, delicious. I'm not really focused on the organic thing. Normally. I can't imagine how organic would be different from normal to Rados because it's all very processed, but good. Yeah, I think it might just be the white cheddar is a flavor, ally a lot, and these white cheddar Doritos or fucking fantastic. Well, are the cool ranch are that's why China is that something different? It's cool ranch out for you when you meet. What do you mean? Is that something different? Well, there's going to be cheese involved in the look. We have three bags of Doritos on the table. They've given us zero dollars. We have three more bags than dollars. We've gotten from the Doritos people. I should stop plugging them at this point. I'm now pushing through bags of Doritos. It's towards Caitlyn. They're all right here in front of me comfortably. So you look uncomfortable. L. explore these later. Explorers, the right word for it, and you know, who would have appreciated. The adventurous taste of Doritos. Would it be L Ron Hubbard would be famed explorer l. Ron. This is not going to help our sponsorship, but how we're off the rails now, fuck it. I'll unplug it. If I'll do a whole podcast on how L Ron Hubbard would not have enjoyed the flavorful taste of Doritos. If if the torito's people get in touch with us, is that good? Okay. Let's get back to the story. So when we last left on Hubbard, he'd broken things off with his wife and his his mistress any it's nineteen fifty one. He tried to drug his followers, but it hasn't worked very well and later in nineteen fifty one, the New Jersey board of medical examiners started what would become a decades, long pattern of state, national agencies investigating l. Ron Hubbard activities. They accused his facility and Elizabeth of teaching medicine without a license, and they brought a suit against him in response Hubbard closed up shop because he knew he was going to lose any sort of legal battle because he was one hundred percent teaching medicine without a license and they left New Jersey. Everything he owned was shoved into the back of a black limousine and they drove to Los Angeles. Oddly enough, Greg Hemingway, youngest son of Ernest Hemingway was one of the Dianetics to pack. L. Ron Hubbard stuff, Greg, Greg, giving way she, it's weird because Ernest Hemingway sounds like an author name. It just has that probably because way, but it's still has Greg, right as a father. You're really sabotaging your kid from following in your footsteps by Gregory. I mean, you need more than one syllable. Even Gregory I, I'd never read a book from Gregory. That's such an untrustworthy name. No, I wouldn't. Yeah, Michael. There's a book name I'll come on. That's just too generic. Sorry for all you Michael's out there wanna generic first name and then exciting. Last name will like Michael Crichton. Michael Crichton. There you go. Exactly the most trustworthy writer? Yes. All of this. He didn't turn out to be crazy or anything. You know what? I'll forgive everything. He did after Jurassic Park because of Jurassic. But yeah, that was a who that is bad. A descent as this cheesy SCI fi author pretty rough in case you don't know Michael Crichton spent his later years writing a whole book about how global warming was ally and also writing one of the critics who badly reviewed his books into one of his novels as a pedophile and describing the critics, small penis. Michael crichton. Classy fella. Boy. Okay. So the marriage of l. Ron Hubbard and Sara Northrup fell apart as he was fleeing New Jersey. He knew that there was going to be divorce in since he was now quite wealthy. There was a lot of money at stake in order to secure more favorable divorce terms. What do you think l. Ron Hubbard did in order to ensure that he would have the upper hand in the coming divorce battle is not known for lying. So I don't imagine he did anything dishonest. So I would guess that you know, he just parted with half of his money and assets amicably. No. Oh, shoot fun fact. He kidnapped his daughter, Alexis and took her to Cuba. Yes, clear. Oh boy. Well, he didn't immediately take her to Cuba I, he kidnapped her and paid a random nurse to take care of her for a month, and then kidnapped his wife wants. The baby was are taking care of the in two of his followers kidnapped his wife physically forced her into the vehicle according to bare faced messiah, the grabbed her by each arm. One of them clamped a hand over her mouth and they bustled her out of the house across the sidewalk and into the back of the car, which drove off at speed. Sarah fought like a cat in the back of the car, screaming and shouting at Hubbard, who in turn was shouting at her. At one point when the car stopped at traffic lights, she tried to leap out and thereafter Hubbard gripped her around the neck and a stranglehold while the argument continues. Yeah, okay. Feminist icon run over kidnapped his life. This is why I say it's shocking that I can't find any evidence of being a child molester right? Because it's really seems like he runs. He would have been molesting skits like. Oh, but okay. I guess it's still piece shit monster. So once his wife was subdued in the back of the car, they drove to San Bernardino to try and find a midnight doctor who would declare Sarah legally insane. Unfortunately, and kind of shockingly he couldn't find one. Oh, which I think you probably would be able to find a doctor willing to do that in LA now. Yeah. If you had l. Ron Hubbard money, right? Apparently you couldn't back then that's encouraged kudos nineteen fifties, San Bernardino. Psychiatrists. You get a clear pass from behind the bastards eventually. He promised to tell his wife where she could find their daughter. If she signed a piece of paper claiming he had an abducted her just then. Wow. This guy, I'm starting to like him. It's just so consistent. Yeah, like it's just so shockingly consistently terrible. I'll tell you where our kid daughter is if you agree not to tell anyone that I just kidnapped you and strangled, you Claire. Claire, you insane. I mean, I gotta say nine hundred fifty one strangling probably wouldn't have got him in a much trouble. Probably it. It didn't. Sure. Didn't. He let her go after she signed the paper. But when she went to go find their baby Hubbard at already had the child moved. In fact, he'd hired a couple who were against strangers to drive the baby across the country. The baby's just an afterthought and no point is he focused on this kid. You couldn't matter less to him. Sarah Hubbard filed a kidnapping complaint with the LAPD, but they assume this was just a domestic dispute and decided not to get in the middle of things. So the LAPD hitting it out of the park in nineteen fifty one. Yeah, you guys don't get a pass psychiatrists of San Bernardino. Cool with you. Fuck the LAPD in nineteen fifty one LAPD today. If you want to sponsor the show, we can talk about it. In the meantime, while Sarah was trying to file a kidnapping complaint, L Ron Hubbard found a psychiatrist who was willing to diagnose him sane, which he had done just sort of a precautionary measure according to one of the men who helped and do all this Dianetics with the last name of de mille quote, he and I, I went to a psychiatrist who didn't like the smell of it. He obviously thought he was being manipulated. So we just paid him ten dollars in left. Then we went to a prominent diagnostic psychologist of that era who did some protective testing on Hubbard and produced an upbeat harmless report saying he was a creative individual upset by family problems and dissension and it was depressing his work and so forth. It was very bland, but Hubbard was delighted with it. The main value of it to him was that it didn't say he was crazy. So he could claim had been given a clean Bill of health by the psychiatric profession. He called the FBI to claim that miles Hollister the man. His wife was having an affair with was a communist as well as armed and dangerous. He made several calls in reports to the FBI trying to get them to murder his wife's new lover by claiming he was an armed and dangerous. Communist. Next L Ron Hubbard mill and his baby flew to Havana Cuba upward, put the baby in the care of two Jamaican women as soon as they arrived. We're also strange strangers strangers not with anybody who cares about it. No, no, no, no, no, no. It'll run Hubbard's not gonna spend any time with his baby. He spent the time in Cuba writing the draft of a sequel to his book on Dianetics and drinking huge quantities of rum. So he couldn't be taken care of baby then. No, he's to drink for several weeks straight and write a terrible book. Sarah did eventually file a writ with the a. superior court in the news picked up the exciting story that the founder of America's newest coat, psychological, fad, whatever had abducted his own child as a result around Hubbard had to write in letter to his. Estranged wife. So I'm going to read you that letter. Now this is to Sarah this to Sarah time, dear. Sarah, I've been in a Cuban military hospital, and I am being transferred to the United States next week as it classified scientists, immune from interference of all kinds. The white will be hospitalized. Probably a longtime. Alexis has getting excellent care. I see her every day. She is all I have to live for my wits never gave way under all you did and let them do, but my body didn't stand up. My right side is paralyzed and getting more. So I hope my heart lasts. I may live a long time and again, I may not, but Dianetics will last ten thousand years for the army and navy habit. Now my will is all changed. Alexis. We'll get a fortune unless she goes to you as she would then get nothing hope to see you once more goodbye. I love you Ron. More truth. Yeah, no. The truth, Alexis, his daughter who he's not taking care of an instant drinking rum. Yes. And we'll later deny is his child and tells her when she comes to him in adult that she was the illegitimate child of his wife and okay, I was gonna ask about because he has kids from his first marriage, Paula. Five or six kids. Wow. Yeah. One of them nibs I think was his nickname was with the coat for a while and then left changes last name to DeWolf. Hubbard's nephew, Jamie DeWolf does a lot of, I think he's like a motivational speaker and stuff. So number of his kids have become big anti Scientology, sort of voices. He didn't spend any time with them. So how could they have one of his kids committed suicide? Yeah, at least one. So Sarah filed for divorce in the court documents. She filed revealed horrific details from inside their relationship. According to her, at one point, Ronn told her they couldn't get a divorce because it would be bad for his reputation. She says that he told her, basically, you'll kill yourself. If you really love me because we can't get divorced because it's the fifties. She's, she also says that he regularly strangled her. She believed that he was insane and needed to be locked up in a mental asylum. Obviously she has a bias, but it's really hard to disagree with that statement. What a different world it would be. If somebody had given L Ron Hubbard the help he so desperately needed. Now, Hubbard flew back from Cuba around this time. He wound up living with a millionaire Dianetics enthusiasts named pursell who'd gotten rich through something else and just love Dianetics Bersell wound up, essentially taking over the business operations of Dianetics for awhile and fixing everything. Unfunny all the damage Hubbard had done to the structure of atomic profitable and for a while, Wichita Kansas becomes the the center of Dianetics research. Yeah, Wichita. So they're doing research? Not really. Yeah. Yes, yeah. I mean, no rights, a bunch of books about Dianetics try to sell them to people, teach classes, but now I'm only doing much real research when Sarah found out that Hubbard was in Wichita. She filed a petition asking to have his assets in Los Angeles placed into receivership. Hubbard responded by sending a letter to the department of Justice. He described himself as basically a scientist. This exact where it's basically a scientist and accused the communists in their secret agent, his wife of orchestrating a campaign to try and destroy him. He would later claim that his wife was a Nazi agent as well. He can switch between the two, okay, pretty much at will. And this is like McCarthy era a good time to be accused of people communism. It is proof of how nutty he sounded. He is constantly going to the FBI in claiming that all the people who are against him are communist's armed and stuff. And the FBI immediately writes them off as a nut which the FBI was not good at determining who was legitimately a threat to the country and not in this period that went after a lot of innocent people. But even the nineteen fifties FBI was like, this guy is fucking crazy. Joseph McCarthy's basically running the show right now, but this guy's a fucking lunatic. Yeah, which if the fucking FBI under j Edgar Hoover thinks you're too crazy to be credible about your anticommunist conspiracy theories. You gotta be real crazy. You gotta be really got him. Okay. The good news is that Sara Northrup eventually got both are divorced and her daughter back and I, as far as I know, hopefully Lexus had a good childhood. I really don't know much more about her at this point, but she went to live with her. She's a getting filled with that in grams, holy shit, supposedly in exchange for getting her baby back though. She agreed not to say anything bad about her husband, L Ron Hubbard. He also made her right a statement or rather he wrote a statement and then published it with her name attached to it, and she didn't complain that seems likely based on the actual wording of the statement. I'm going to read you the end bit of it. There is no other reason for the statement than my own wish to make atonement for the damage I may have done in the future. I wished to lead a quiet and orderly existence with my little girl far away from the interpreting influences which have ruined my marriage. Sarah, north Republic interpreting is a word that L Ron Hubbard invented. Which is why people think he just wrote this and she wanted her baby back and it was the fifties. And she was like, this is the closest version of Justice second get. Okay. Yeah. In turbulence, and turbulent. It's a perfectly chrome Hewlett word. Yeah. But the end of nineteen fifty. One Dianetics look to be on its way out. A conference of dinette assists only drew one hundred twelve attendees, which is about about a year about what you could expect to get it of a fad, pop psychology thing. This Hubbard desperately pushed book after book including child Dianetics, but all of them failed to catch on the book he wrote while drunk in Cuba did not see the same success as the original, which is really tragic. The sequel we call Dianetics to Dianetics to yet. Extremely. Diametic harder. You could call it like a reverse Hemingway because he went to Cuba and got drunk to right, but was less successful. I assume that's where Hemingway did all his good stuff. I don't know much about hats where around him that's improbably shitload. Yeah, I assume maybe would have been better book if he'd add more cats. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. It became increasingly clear to many people that L Ron Hubbard was not quite the genius. They had thought Perry chapter lane. A researcher at the Wichita Dianetics foundation said, quote, the problem for many people involved in Dianetics was that they accepted every word Hubbard said, is literal truth rather than a framework around which you could do things. I remember at a lecture one night, he told people that if they did this or that they would no longer need to wear glasses and that they would be able to throw them away forever. He pointed to a big bowl at the bottom of the steps leading up to the rostrum. At the end of the lecture, people were throwing their glasses into this bowl, Don per cell. The millionaire who saved Hubbard's asked and save. Dianetics was one of the guys who tossed their glasses into the bowl, quote, Hubbard thought it was a great joke. He told me about it afterwards, making a snide remark about pursell describing how he took. His glasses through them into the ball and groped his way out of the lecture hall Hubbard was laughing that people would do something like that just because of what he said. Of course it didn't work like everyone else per cell had a new pair of glasses and a couple of days. Yeah, I thought the story was going to end the like someone crashed on their way home because they couldn't see that would have made sense. Now. I mean everyone on the road was drunk and nineteen fifty one. So they were limped when they hit anyway, right? Hubbard met and married his third and final wife. Mary sue whip. During this Wichita period, she was like eighteen, and he was like forty, seven. It was kinda creepy, but they stayed together the rest of his life, and he may even have been faithful to her, maybe not probably a couple of affairs in their butcher. He might have been. They were. They were together the rest of his life. Well, sort of she wound up taking the fall firming going to prison, but that's a story for another day. Which is also where he first revealed the meter advice he claimed can measure emotions and quote, given auditor insight into the mind of his pre-clear Hubbard announced this at a meeting in a Wichita hotel right before he made the exciting announcement to a group of eighty that he had developed a new science even better than Dianetics science that filled the few holes Dianetics had had an elevated it to a new level. It was almost more than a science. He called this Scientology. Yeah. Now I looked on Scientology dot org, try and figure out what they had to say about this, and I actually found another reference to his totally real book Excalibur because that's what they claim. The name comes from. L Ron Hubbard began his studies of the mind and spirit in nineteen. Twenty-three resulting in a manuscript entitled Excalibur in nineteen thirty eight in this unpublished work. The word Scientology first appeared to describe what Mr. Hubbard termed the study of knowing how to know he decided against publishing the book for the fact Excalibur didn't contain any therapy of any kind, but was simply discussion of the composition of life. Consequently, he said, I decided to go further. So now it's worth interesting. The author bare faced messiah found an earlier use of the word Scientology in like a German scientific study published like in the thirties, but it had nothing to do with any of this just worth noting someone else figured out the term. I not really a big deal. Howard probably wasn't plagiarizing this obscure German scientist, but thought that was interesting. So in the Scientology dot org, right up of things Scientology was. Immediately conceived of as a religion. The reality is that it was immediately conceived of as a science and it's real purpose was to protect Hubbard legally because he and pursell had gotten into a fight at this point over the rights today, networks Don persona. He had a falling out. And so there was a giant legal battle waging over who is going to own the rights to Dianetics Hubbard created Scientology initially. So he could keep making more books than selling more products under thing that pursell had no rights to. Yeah, and it was not a religion at first Hubbard claim that while Dianetics had been about the body Scientology was essentially focused more on the soul because he had quote, come across incontrovertible, scientifically validated evidence of the existence of the human soul. So we're going to get into what Hubbard claimed in Scientology and how it changed from a way for him to dodge legal liability into a religion. But first consume. The lint killer murders gripped. The small town of hollow falls a decade ago by the end of the killing spree. Six people, including my aunt Beth were dead. The police discovered a handwritten note next to her body and decided it was her confession, but my aunt was no killer. The mission of this podcast is simple to uncover the truth to clear my aunt's name to put the real killer behind bars or die trying. I'm Tig Torres, and this is lethal lit, lethal lit, a Tig Torres. Mystery a six part scripted podcast series coming to your favorite podcast app, Mondays starting October twenty. Ninth subscribe now to never miss an episode. We're back. We're talking about Scientology the new science of the soul than Elrod hybrid has just launched in order to avoid a court case or not to protect himself from accord reason to lift a religion all the great. Well, Jesus actually started Christianity because he hit a guy with his Camaro anyway. Anyway, it was it was it was a mess, but it all worked out in the, I think so Hubbard claimed to have discovered that human beings were driven by immortal and omnipotent beings called themes. No themes, trion millions of bodies over the course of eons. And so there centrally these immortal spirits that like Geydar meet sacks Dianetics had been about refiling bad memories in your brain to cure health problems. But Scientology was away of waking your feet in up to the memories of its long hidden existence in order to gain superpowers, essentially, you're activating your feet and so that you can, you know, clearing off all of the. Bullshit. It's tricked into thinking it's just a mortal being, yes, something like that. It's close enough putting, yeah, according to bare faced, messiah threatens were obviously not restricted to this universe in auditing sessions, revealed innumerable accounts of space travel in adventures on other planets, very similar to those found in the pages, the standing science fiction to which the founder of Scientology had. So recently been contributing. One report described how a pre clear-headed arrived on a plan at seventy four thousand years ago and battled a black magic operators who are using electronics for evil purposes. So this is the point at which past lives become a real big part of they'll run Hubbard's philosophy and they have electric seventy four thousand years ago. We'll, yeah, space aliens space space aliens stuff aliens been traveling space all the time. Yeah. Yeah. In July nineteen. Fifty two L Ron Hubbard published the history of man. He called it quote a cold blooded and factual account of your last sixty trillion years in it. He promised that with Scientology the blind will again see the lame walk. The. L. recover the insane become sane and the sane will become saner. Oh yeah. There's one man. You should trust them how to become saner. It's the guy who kidnapped his own baby. Yes, you know, that's us to me sane. Really stable guy, balanced, man. You know, I've always really respected kidnapping discipline. Oh yeah, there's, yeah, it's a wonderful industry. It's a calling. It's an art form. Really a good, solid kidnapping, basically science guy, stealing babies out of a window. What are you doing? I'm basically a scientist. That's the t shirt right there covered stealing a baby. We're going to get some good t-shirt base lawsuits out of this, and then I'll have to create a religion in order to maintain my rights to the show, and then I'm gonna fight you for those rights and then we're something bad's going to happen. You wanna baby in Cuba. Go right ahead because that's where it's going. Oh boy. Induction jokes, so good fun. When you know the kid got out, yes. A lot of kids didn't get out of Scientology anyway back to the story. So the history of man basically repackaged Hubbard's Dianetics ideas about in grams, but catch them in weird evolutionary terms. So now Scientologists didn't just have to worry about the traumas, date experiences. Babies, they had to worry about the traumas that deep back in time their ancestors had experienced Hubbard claim that many in grams were caused by clams because our clam ancestors were locked in an attorney conflict between the hinge that opened and the hinge that closed. He claimed that the gesture of opening and closing your thumb and forefinger was in consciously upsetting to people as a result of this getting late. Okay. Do you have questions about that? That's not all clear. Our clam and clams Clem sisters. It's like a cla model, man. So it's fish, clams specifically, specifically clamps we descended from absolutely okay. Or at least the'din spent time and clams. Oh, okay. Yeah, no, I get it. Okay. This, it's all internally consistent. This all works out. And then the motion of of me clasping my, you know, some against my finger, yes, is is upsetting is what he's saying? Yeah, it upsets people if you just do this just walk around the street today. Just do this at strangers, basically sock puppet, basically sock, puppet motions. If you live near L Ron Hubbard boulevard, just walked down at doing this. You really pissing people off. I live near the the whole church was Scientology. I live near the Scientology like movie studios. Fantastic. Yeah. I'm like in this area that we're all that stuff is very, we'll if a scientologist tries to abduct you, you know how to upset them. Do the clam thing. Yeah. Now, Hubbard did warn quote your discussion of these incidents with the uninitiated and Scientology can cause havoc. Should you describe the clam to someone you may restate it in him to the extent of causing severe job pain. One such victim after hearing about a clam death could not use his jaws for three days. So how's everyone's jaw feel? You know what? Starting tired, getting a little tired making so many good jokes about around my is tired, but I've read through sixteen pages. Nonsense. You know what doesn't tire your jaw out, and you know what? I'm not gonna do it torito's at now. You could've had a Doritos ad Doritos people, but instead I'm going to Schill for another product of the next product available, Lysol sanitizing wipes. That's what's good for you. Use Lysol San white yourself, clean your things away Satan's away. See Lysol got a freebie Doritos. Anyway, back back to the tail. So there's an awful lot of lunacy in Scientology. I'm not going to go into tremendous detail about all of the different crazy things. He said, because that could be a whole fucking ten part episode. Yeah, but it is important that you know it didn't all come together at once. You know, I think most people's understanding of Scientology's actual belief comes from that south park episode which did a pretty good job of summing it up, but he hadn't even invented all of this stuff yet everything about Zanu in that this was all added over time. It was definitely cobbled together. He did not just come out with suddenly this vision of how things had happened. Genius doesn't happen overnight. No, and neither do bullshit. Science fiction, short stories. The general, the story of Scientology's. The story of l. Ron Hubbard just making up things for seventy years and writing them down. And now people have to pay attention to him because it's a religion. Yeah, it's pretty great. He continuously expanded his claims of what Scientology could achieve in the book Scientology eight to eight thousand eight. I don't know what that's a reference to. He. Bragged with this book, the ability to make one's body older, young. At will the ability to heal the ill without physical contact, the ability to cure the insane and the incapacitated as set forth for the physician, the layman, the mathematician, and the physicist. So anyone can use the science to heal the sick weird that we still have sick. People shocking Scientology proved to be much better money making scheme than Dianetics had been Hubbard, moved to England and bought a gigantic manor house. He built facilities there and was soon making more than forty thousand dollars a week. Just at the English facility teaching auditors there. He's making millions and millions of dollars on in the world. This marked the end of L Ron Hubbard's money problems. Money is just you. If your questions, how do they afford that for any other part of the next two parts of the story is just he's richest shit. Okay. Like forever now, and this is one of those things. He does not have any more money problems like, and this is because people are just buying into this religion. And yeah, out outlying the books paying for training all over most of whom probably aren't super committed. Because like I've talked to a number of people in LA who did Scientology for years. So they probably spend. A couple of grand on it, but then they left, but there's a lot more people like that than there are committed scientologist. It's that good money, making thing got interest what it's always been, but I'll give it to him for this. It was a very idiosyncratic organization at its start in that initially caused some problems because he was bad at managing, but he really seems to have learned how to manage a really profitable gigantic worldwide enterprise, which is not easy. So again, one of the reasons why it's hard to hate him as much as you should is he's really competent like it's not like a guy who was just born rich Indo, shitty things like an unnamed person. We're all thinking of right now just as born rich and never has to work for his money and is prominent because the L Ron Hubbard was born poor and built a multibillion dollar religious cult. I, it's impressive. It's an impressive con shirt. Probably the most impressive Khan on April tenth nineteen Fifty-three l. Ron Hubbard wrote to one of his high-ranking followers and suggested turning their science self-help empire into a religion. I await you. Reaction on the religion angle. In my opinion, we couldn't get worse public opinion than we have had or have less customers with what we've got to sell. A religious charter would be necessary in Pennsylvania or New Jersey to make it stick. But I sure could make it stick. Not an accurate stuck well as someone from Pennsylvania from punks tiny specific of Tommy for sure. People are. Yeah, they're really impressionable there. So as the guy who defeated ISIS, I agree with you. In December of nineteen Fifty-three. L Ron Hubbard incorporated three new churches, the church of American science, the church of Scientology church of spiritual engineering, all in Camden, New Jersey, jersey boy. In February of nineteen fifty four. He incorporated the church of Scientology in California over the course of nineteen fifty four. He encouraged Dianetics foundation franchise holders because that's how it had spread so rapidly. People were starting franchises to turn their businesses into independent churches. Oh, yeah. Right? Yeah, really came together real well. Executives of the Hubbard association of Scientologists were now ministers some even call themselves reverence. Just let people call them something. Errands. Whatever I've always wanted to be a Reverend Scientology wouldn't qualify as a religion for the purposes of tax exemption until nineteen Ninety-three. This was a battle, the battle to get accepted like it took a long time. I'm not gonna get into everything they had to do it. We was it was a fucking uphill, but starting in nineteen fifty four. That's when he starts consistently saying, this is a religion. This is the point at which Hubbard quick claiming to be a researcher in a scientist and started presenting himself to the world as defied holy may sickly yet to basically assigned. He's definitely a holy man. Definitely a holy man. He, of course, drew government attention particularly from the f. b. i. this made him grow more and more paranoid. The encourage believers to attack anyone practising Scientology outside of the church apostates were called squirrels and should be sued out of existence. The term squirrel is still used by the church of Scientology. You can find YouTube videos called squirrel busters type that in. It's like guys with like gopro cameras, just like yelling Scientology nonsense. It's supposed apostate Scientologists. Yes. Awesome. In going clear, it's weird really uncomfortable. It's like two people yelling about a video game that you don't know anything about it. So technical and specific, are you on tech? I wouldn't. You talking. Hubbard advised scientologist who were arrested heckling nonbelievers or apostates to immediately sue for a hundred thousand dollars in claim religious persecution. He said the only proper response to any kind of challenge to the church was unrestricted. Warfare attack attack attack. Never stop. Attacking always be attacking. It works the ABA. I mean, it's it's the same social media strategy that the the president uses like, you never apologize for doing something bad. You always just attack new people in if you get attacked for something, you find like it works. Yeah. Yeah. Don't spend any time addressing problems just attack really successful idea. So Hubbard figures this out in the early fifties and applies it to his religion. So cool. It is cool. Yeah. The coolest throughout the late nineteen fifties, auditing sessions and courses devolved from semi scientific discussions of Dianetics into lurid stories of past lives as aliens and famous historic figures. One of Hubbard's followers your called there was a good deal of rivalry as to who could dig up the most notable or extrordinary past life. Jesus of Nazareth was very popular at least three London Scientologists claim to have been covered incidents in which they were crucified and rose from the dead to save the world Queen Elizabeth, the first Walter rally and the venerable Bede were also popular, funnily enough. I never met anyone who claimed to know anything about Attila the hun Genghis Kahn or punches pilot. Which is if you're ever pretending to have fake lives, pretend to be someone cool, right? Yeah, no one wants to be a goody two shoes in the past. Yeah, boo. Yeah, I was fucking gang. That's a cool pass life. Yeah. Now the CIA had taken an interest in Hubbard in nineteen fifty seven and the f. b. i. had been onto him for a while most be because of the hundreds of letters heat sent them claiming. People were communists in nineteen sixty run Hubbard officially spooked the government when he urged his followers to do everything in their power to stop the election of Richard Nixon, not on the wrong side of history there. Now Nixon didn't win probably for other reasons because JFK was just such a charming son of a bitch, but the whole escapade convinced Hubbard that he could use his coal to gain political power in August of nineteen sixty two. L Ron Hubbard wrote a letter to president Kennedy claiming that Scientology was the only way to train human beings for the rigors of space light since Hubbard and his followers were all aware of their past lives, Espace travelers. They really were the best people to manage astronaut training. Absolutely. Totally. Again, logically consistent the s. and NASA stands for Scientologists. He said in his letter to JFK quote, man will not successfully get into space without us. We do not wish the United States to lose either the space race or the next war. The deciding factor in that race or that war may very well be lying in your hands at this moment and may depend on what is done with this letter. Courteously Ron Hubbard spoiler alert we did get into space without them. Have we know I've seen those staged moves. Let's see. I think the moon landing is staged, but I think it's because we really landed on Venus. Oh, that's an interesting theory. Okay. And that's where cell phones come from? Yes, the government doesn't want you know with that. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, back to L Ron Hubbard in January of nineteen sixty three. The FDA carried out a raid on the church of Scientology. They didn't get much. It seems like one of those things where they basically cooked up a bullshit reason because e meters were labeled improperly and we're like making health claims, they should make, but the using the excuse to send them like dozens of armed men and stuff to like raid a facility. It was like it was. It was an overreach of force. It seemed like they were expecting to find a cache of weapons or something crazy because this Colt seems so crazy and they didn't church of Scientology is probably more in the right than the FDA was although they were publishing misleading stuff. Yeah, the raids seems to have been kind of bullshit. Well, they read, you know, works from well. Is it Remington Winchester Colt in exactly. Got three good. The whole thing increased out on Hubbard sense of paranoia and persecution in nineteen sixty five Hubbard introduced ethics technology to his new faith, which included conditions that could be applied to people when they had ethical lapses. One member who worked in Hubbard's English manor is a Butler recalled. I was assigned a condition of emergency because I served him salmon for dinner. That was not quite fresh. I was shocked. You had to go through a whole formula, write it up and submitted with an application to be upgraded. Scientology develops new cadre of ethics officers who are basically secret police tasked with punishing the insufficiently dedicated disloyal different penalties, including a condition of liability could be imposed members in a condition of liability had to wear dirty gray rags on their arms. They also couldn't like bathe and stuff. It was gross church members who screwed up too badly. We're declared suppressive persons, these people Hubbard declared. We're fair game to be destroyed by any means necessary. Now, Australia had been a hotbed of scientologist activity, Australia. Okay. Yeah, Hubbard brag that it was going to be the first clear. Tenant. But in October of nineteen sixty five and Austrailian board of inquiry published a report on Scientology and they wholeheartedly condemned the Colt. So Australia basically kicked them out. They said, it seemed so silly that people would think it was harmless, but that is really fucking dangerous. Scientology's evil, its techniques, evil, its practice, a serious threat to the community medically, morally and socially, and it's adhered, sadly, deluded, and often mentally ill. Austrailia knows what is talking about. Yeah, and they ban him, they basically banned so or at least the state of Victoria basically banned Scientology and I hate to say it, but we owe a lot of that to Rupert Murdoch newspapers. He owned and he seems to have been personally involved in really pushing coverage of how crazy Scientology was which is responsible for starting the investigation which got it banned. He gave them their first nickname, which is also the only nickname aware of for them Bunka Malla. She didn't take off their Rupert Murdoch's, not graded naming things now, but credit to a monster. He was in the right this one time in the fucking sixties. England began to crack down more on Hubbard and Scientology as well with the US Australia and UK all clearly against him l. Ron Hubbard began to look for a new place to basis growing faith. His first instinct was Rhodesia you ever heard of Rhodesia I don't think so. I mean it's in Bob way. Now. Rhodesia is the name when a bunch of white people were ruling over the black majority. Pretty brutally. It was a very much an apartheid state. There's a civil war. The people in charge got overthrow. And before that happened, he went to Rhodesia and basically promised to put a bunch of money into the local economy, and he wrote a new constitution for them than was meant to trick black people into thinking their votes mattered without actually letting the vote weirdly enough Rhodesia actually kicked him out. They didn't want anything to do with them. Oh, yeah. No, no, it's weird. You expect it to go even worse, but even the country of racists run by racists for racists. And it's still like a major in fire, right? White supremacist talking points today to talk about radio. They didn't want anything to do with outrun Hubbard. So I guess props to Rhodesia. Once he got back from Africa l. Ron Hubbard began to cook up a scheme to escape all his myriad legal troubles. One of his friends were called him saying, you know, John, we've got to do something about all this trouble. We're having with governments. There's a lot of high level research that still has to be done, and I wanna be able to get on with it without constant interference. Do you realize that seventy? Five percent of the earth's surface is completely free from the control of any government. That's where we could be free on the high seas. See back to the mode back to the boats, the high Caesar exactly where L, Ron Hubbard decided to go next quietly carefully. He and his minions embarked upon what he called the c. project. And we're going to hear about that see project on the next episode of behind the bastards. Refueling kaylin I feel great. I feel I, oh, man. I in vigor, am I scenes? Or the really charged up and my in grams or they're, they're disappear granting, oh, there go there, Instagram ING, but they on their way out. What did you have for breakfast and nineteen? Forty two. Because my many past lives, I definitely recall having some hotcakes putt cakes. Yeah, hotcakes well, I don't know what I'm trying to do. Plus you're speaking Instagram. You can follow me on Twitter and that was good. Thank you so much at Caitlyn Dante spelled c. IT l. a. n. you can listen to my podcast right here on how stuff works. It is called the Bechtel cast, and we talk about the portrayal of women in movies and yeah, follow us there at Bechtel Caspi he HDA. Oh, speaking of the portrayal of women in movies by Twitter is I right? Okay. You can find this podcast online at buying the best dot com. You can find us on Twitter at at bastards pot, Instagram too. So check us out. If you're an angry scientologist you can yell at me there. I'm sure I got something wrong about your religion because it's silly. That's the only religion. I'll say that about. Oh, I don't even know. No, I'm actually. Cool as hell. Yeah, it's really neat imagery. Sorry, I don't know why I've faked and insulted Zorro Asterix there. I've gone mad bleeding all of this. This is what happens two hours into the Ron Hubbard podcast. We insult Zorro Asterix for no reason, religion that never did anything. Oh, no, you're implicated now, and you're all implicated for listening and be implicated in our part three. Both. Hello friends. I'm Robert Evans, and if you'd like my show behind the bastards then I think you might like dumb people town. It's a story about dumb people about are the world's getting them every day and you know, stuff like burglars getting on board spaceships threesomes on public patio decks door to door, meat salesmen, crazy stuff like that. It's hosted by the Sklar brothers, Jason, and Randy Sklar along with a comedian. Daniel van Kirk who was on my show for the Hitler and the Nazis episode. So check out dumb people town. It's on itunes, Stitcher tune in Spotify wherever you listen to podcasts.
Behind the Bastards
Aired 4 months ago 47:04
Dan Patrick Show - Hour 3 - Ariel Helwani and Reggie Miller (10-08-18)
It's all about me. Dan Patrick gas, there is more where that came from. Click back for new episodes. All week log. Your friends can only handle so much. Have a breaking point when print Ellen takes over and not just afraid to Petra by. Halloween, Hometec kings dominion. We'll put you to the limits of fear. Come select nights through October twenty eighth from nitrite stimulated creatures and terror. You've never felt before. Fear is waiting for you. Save up to thirty dollars on tickets at kings, dominion dot com. Broadcasting from the Mercedes men can. I think Aaron judge make everybody else around him a lot better. This is Dan Patrick final hour on this Monday. Hope you had a great weekend best and worst of the weekend more phone calls coming up also tweets as well. Eight, seven, seven, three DP show Email address DP Dan, Patrick dot com. Reggie Ella wishes Miller junior. The third will join us in a while since we talked to reg I always joins us during the NBA season. So reg has some thoughts not only on the Lakers, but also the fight over the weekend with Abib in Konic. Grega also aerial hell. Wani will join us coming up as well. All righty. Eight, seven, seven, three DP show. Got a poll question right mclovin we still have up was the post 'bout Malay, good or bad for the UFC. Now we say fifty, three percents a bad, so Switzer little bit. People voted in bad. Okay, I, I don't really agree with them. Yeah, I thought it was well ask Ariel, he'll wanna who covers the sport if it was a good weekend for MMA. Yes. I wonder if this covers for the fact that it wasn't that great of a fight. It wasn't a good fight. I didn't think there was any doubt about it. I didn't think that the end result was hanging in the balance there. I just I think Habib is he just felt like he was so clinical that if Conor McGregor made a mistake and he went down on the the Matt, that he was done now took four rounds, but I think you know the reason why it's getting so much attention is, well, you had this stuff prior to where Conor McGregor what he was saying, these press conferences, how he was treating Habib disrespecting him a selling the fight, and I get it. I understand it, but that's where Dana white. You have to, you have to least. Well, you don't have to because it feels like he's more Vince McMahon than he is, you know, a regular Commissioner. You know, you're selling the fight and you can't be aghast at at anything Conor McGregor does, but then near gas. Did you know what happened after the fight? So it was just surprising with some of it, but you know, it's the bottom line and Conor McGregor is the meal ticket. Dan, Patrick show brought to you by the two thousand eighteen Mercedes AM g. e. class with a suite of innovative technologies. One of the most intelligent cars on the road go to MB USA dot com or visit your local dealership schedule. Your test drive today. Fritzy reach out to Ohio State. I can't get a sideline pass apparently for Ohio statement that was quick. It was. I can give him a a, give him a pass, but sidelines there for photons and production workers, gay management staff. So I get that right. So I guess I have to be in the press box there. So at ease Georgia's, I have a camera in his hand. You don't want. What if I bring a camera. What about that? What should we ask? Michigan, then they'll, they'll Michigan can help us. They will. But I did I ever tell you when I got my father-in-law tickets to a giants game. And I, you know, as a birthday present and I got him tickets and I said, you know, you gotta have a camera on the sidelines. So he brought one of those little instamatic cameras, those disposable cameras. And so he was trying to pass himself off as if otographer he's next to the guy with the three hundred your land? Yeah. He's next to the NFL films guy and my father in law had that little yellow or orange instamatic camera. That's disposable. He's taking these pictures. He takes. He grabs Gatorade off of the table at halftime. He's talking to Phil Simms on what Phil Simms was playing for the judge. So he's talking to him from behind the bench. And then he goes over and gets Gatorade and unbeknownst to me, and I just got the the word after the fact. And he said he had a great time. He went with my Br. Mother-in-law. And then he my brother-in-law told me all the things he was doing. Yeah, you know, he'd got Gatorade. You talked to Phil Simms. I said what says? Yeah, yeah. And he had his little camera real small camera. All right. Let's see. Anything else I need to mention here before we dive into aerial, hell wanna hear, I just shocked. You're a beloved son of Ohio State well, but even supporting that team since you're a youngster, Wally rules are rules, and I understand that at OH I o and if they can't accommodate me. That's okay. I can always just stay at home with the family and watch Ojo state against Michigan stead of going to the game, embracing the buckeyes on the sidelines, reliving my childhood memories, their stuff like that. Reggie Miller will join us coming up in about twenty minutes, aerial Halawani covers 'em may better than anybody and working for the mothership area. Lemme start. Thanks for joining us. Let me start with the fight itself. Was this a good fight? Thank you for having me back on Dan. I really appreciate it first off. I thought it was a good fight. I thought it was compelling. I think everyone knew what was going to happen if you'd have told me before the fight that you had seen it already and it went into the championship rounds, and then you'd have asked me who on I would have guessed Habib. And if you would've told me, you know how how how he won, I would have guessed. Yeah, of course it was with wrestling. I think some people were surprised by Connors, takedown defense, but his achilles heel has always been his wrestling or lack thereof and his cardio or lack thereof. And I think both those things were on display on Saturday. Was it a good night or bad night for USC? It was a tremendous night who's saying it was a bad night. Don't listen to, you know, Dana, Dana doing the whole sad dad. I know. No, he's he's so disappointed in everyone. If despite gets made again in six months, rest assured all that footage and then some will be used. You know, there's talk of Habib being stripped of his belt. None of that is going to happen. Yeah, he might get slap on the wrist might get a suspension or fine. Six months spend some like that, but let's not forget. This is a guy who fights every six to nine months. So even if they give a suspension, what does he really losing out on? This was the second highest gate in UFC history, the highest in the state of Nevada, and by all accounts, it's going to smash all their pay per view records. It was an incredible night for the company. Would it Connor make off his fight. He said that he stands to make around fifty or so million. You know a dream of his as always been to make nine figures for an MA fight. I asked him last week before the fight. If he stood to make that he said he was halfway there. So not quite what he made for the Floyd Mayweather fight, but fifty million if you'd have told me five years ago that a fighter in the UFC was going to make fifty million for one fight after the pay per view numbers coming in and everything like that, and he gets a cut a pay per view. I would've called you the biggest liar on earth. I mean, that's just unfathomable I, I don't think the entire UFC roster is making money combined outside of Conor McGregor. So this was a very good night for him as well. And I in true Connor fashion. He's not hiding from this. He's not going, you know, into a dark place. He's not looking his Lewis. He's already calling for a rematch because a, he's that kind of a competitor and be he knows how much more money to make in the rematch. I was curious about this when you had the host fight fight and you. You know, where could be goes into the audience, the camera angle, all of a sudden, you know, there was morality here with 'em UFC where they went way way high above instead of covering it, like it's an event because member when galanga which hit Riddick bowl, they Jill Lampley did play by play of the of the fight the in the end, the Malay in the ring. That's what I was surprised at. It felt like wait a minute. This is in front of you and they had an overhead shot where they weren't focusing on what was happening. You know this spectacle, why. Why love you so much? You are so smart, you get it. Other people don't. Do you know why Dan? Because that's state run TV. The UFC is producing that that's real wrestling. They don't want you to see behind the curtain and I couldn't agree more with you. I, we watch that Bogle Lada fight last night and in particular the coverage and I thought Lampley was phenomenal and all of that and just being absolutely honest. My problem with the UFC and their and their and their coverage on television. As far as the events for years has been, it's dishonest a year ago, I made this huge thing about a guy named Al Jemaine. Sterling was brutally knocked out. They never showed him on the mat. It took him ten minutes to get up. They never gave us an update afterwards. They never told us how he was doing that ever told us that he was discharged and that's, you know, a small example, but it's because it's dishonest. They want you to see what they want you to see. Just like Vincic men wants you to see what he wants you to see. So in that moment, this isn't Mike Breen doing play by play. Ron r. test running into the crowd, which is what you should do. They are going as far wide as possible and telling you as little as possible. And and and I don't like that. I feel like in twenty eighteen the broadcasters need to start actually covering the events like they would and NFL game, NBA game, etc. But unfortunately, because the you have c. controls all the production. I'm not surprised. I'm very happy that someone like you, who's, you know, say I'll say like a novice may notices that because that's unlike anything else in any other sport unfortunate, our sport. It's still run like pro wrestling. Yeah, but who's going to be offended by this? I mean, you're watching. You have seen like, this is what you pay for. Don't you. Oh, it's not so much being offended. It's just that they don't want you to see it. So it's the same thing when someone is coming off a year long suspension for steroids, they won't tell you the real story as to why he was away. They'll just say he was out of action for a year. You know, it's all through rose colored, you know, again, same thing and I'm the, I hate the comparisons. There'd be in the sense that you know, I, I would get all fired up in April. I was getting fired up when people were saying like, oh, the Brooklyn incident with the bus was scripted, but that wasn't scripted. And I think you saw on Saturday, just how personal this thing was, but the way they present their show and the way they shy away from talking about the truth is is to me a very big problem in two thousand eighteen the audience is far enough, and you saw that on display on Saturday night because they kept going further back for the back, not show you an look. Everyone has cell phone footage everyone saw eventually. I think it makes them look bad for trying to hide it. So what happens next. Well, what happens next is that Nevada will probably, you know, give the be some kind of punishment of find suspension, but it's not going to be anything drastic. He is not going to get strip and and and Dana said afterwards that you know anyone who ran into the cage or trauma punch of if any of those people are on the UFC roster and some are on the UFC roster. They will be cut well to that. I'll say why you didn't cut anyone after what happened in Brooklyn, and there were people on the UFC roster who are you know involved in that incident at the Barclay center with the dollars and the chairs being thrown at the bus, so you can't do it. Now, you know everyone on this Monday morning wants to blame someone. They wanna blame Habib for jumping over. They wanna blame Connors, training partner, Dylan Dana's for yelling at him. They wanna blame CONNER for throwing the punch. They wanna blame Habib's training partner for punching Connor guess what everyone's to blame from April to Tober. Everyone is to blame everyone has some sort of part in all of this from from the way this. Was promoted to talk about religion and family and Russian politics. Everyone was to blame. You cannot be surprised for what happened on Saturday. This was very combustible. And so at this point, just eats to move on accept it. And at some point I would not be shocked if they do the rematch and I would certainly not be shocked if all this footage that everyone is claiming to be so upset about is used heavily in the promotion for that rematch. Well, done aro- good to talk to you again. Thanks for joining us as always my pleasure. Anytime. Aerial hill wanting covers the sport for ESPN. Yeah, he's right. I mean, this has been a six month process here and if he's right on the rematch they're going to be showing, you know, Conor McGregor picking up a barrier and trying to put it through the bus again. And what happened in the crown. Maybe you put maybe been you and close the cage so nobody can get in and nobody can get out may maybe that maybe it's a glass dome there. A glass ceiling for these two. Yeah, we gotta keep them caged. Yeah. I do. He's right. You know that you you all of a sudden you have Dana white, whose make it seem like this is so sad, this shame. No, it's unfortunate. Damn still good. That's what you want him to say. This real thing is when you see Conor McGregor trying to get out of the ring trying to climb and they pulled back in, he's being pulled in by a bunch of big dudes wearing sport coats, like, you know security guys, but not hardcore security guys and and he looks little like he's, he's not a big. No, but he looks. We next to them is we? But he swinging for the fences there swinging. I know it was funny. Best of the weekend. Adam adamant Iowa joins us. We'll take a break here coming up. Reggie Miller will stop by. Hi, Adam. Hey, I'm good again for the fourth time now I appreciate you taking my call. Sure. So that's the weekend has like Mahomes like, he didn't really play that well, but you can still one. I feel like that team like really, really, really good and I'm with Jake, stir in Wisconsin there. I'm Packers fan, so kind of fun to see that so, but my other worth is the Cowboys. I just don't know how they don't run the ball in that situation. I just felt like I should have done something different. But yeah, you can't play to not. Yes, thanks for the phone call. You can't play not to not to lose, and that's what Jason Garrett did. If you have a great offensive line and you have a great running back, I feel like the answer in your favor there and. You know, I know Zeki did not have a great night, but I, you gotta get a yard. Feels like quarterbacks. If Jared Goff can do a quarterback sneak, then I think Dak Prescott Cantu because the ram said, we're not gonna let Seattle get the ball back because if if they get the ball back, we, we could lose this game. Let's play to win the game, not play, not to lose the game, and that's what Dallas did. All right. We'll take a break. Got more phone calls coming up Reggie Miller in the on-deck circle it seventeen. After the hour, Dan, Patrick show, hey, listeners this college football season. Remember that a little exaggeration makes every story more intensity like dose AKIs. The beer used to water every college football field that America, but don't take it from us. Take it from legendary football coach, les miles. He famously said once the only tastes sweeter than victory is a blade of REM Yuda grass doused in northend Mexican lager. Once again, the only taste sweeter than victory, a blade of Bermuda, grass doused in authentic Mexican lager. But most. Importantly, remember to keep it in terra Sunday, this college football season with dose AKIs the official beer sponsor of the college football, playoff. It's the official beer sponsor of the college football playoff go after it, drink responsibly, imported by survey, SaaS, Mexicanos, White Plains, New York support for the show, comes from our friends at rocket mortgage by Quicken Loans America's premier home purchase lender. Let's talk about buying a home. 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Mortgage dot com slash Dan, it's the kind of thinking you'd expect from America's largest mortgage lender rocket mortgage dot com. Slash Dan, Rachel approve only vowed on certain thirty transactions. Digital conditions exclusion may apply beast and quickenloans data in comparison. Public data records equal housing lender licensed fifty states MLS consumer access dot org. Number three. Oh three. Oh, this is firefighter. Raphael poor yet for firehouse subs. Introducing the new firehouse pub stakes up with savory steak, crispy fried onions are rich, Belgian beer, cheese sauce on tap for a limited time order. Yours at firehouse subs dot com. Today, remember a portion of every sub by helps to buy lifesaving equipment for first responded, firehouse subs, joy, more subs, save more lives, limited time, only plus tax participating locations. Firehouse subs don't even minimum one million dollars in two thousand eighteen firehouse subs, public safety foundation by donating point one, three percent every purchase. Paulie just came up with an idea for jeopardy. They always have those smart people on jeopardy college week. Rocket scientist week on jeopardy. How about c. student week on jeopardy. Mike, those who underachieved maybe and you just have the questions kind of catered to people who got a c. average in college. Would you tune into watch. And they all wear the college sweatshirts like community college sweatshirts. Junior college state college? Yeah. We did you ever have good grades at any point in your career, like even going back to grade school was every time when you're bringing on the grades new, is it because sports or. No, I, I knew what I wanted to do, and I just didn't think learning about message patina was going to help me be a sportscaster and so I just I was not interested in it as satis. It is to say, I mean it. It's one of the great regrets that I had because I, I do like learning. I just at the time I kept thinking why I don't really care about the history of religion right now. How's that going to help me, but I'm on sports center being a big star or something. Yeah, but you're the case where it worked out, you had focused on generally what you wanna do? Media sports, etc. Yeah, now worked out perfectly. I was lucky that I knew what I wanted to do at age, twelve and not many people do. Yes. See, I was identified it a very early age as a dreamer. And that if I from a very early age, like I mean, I think like second or third grade that if I only applied myself was he spends a lot of time daydreaming and if he only applied himself, if that is that that those words or that word apply, oh, you should apply yourself. I feel like it's never used in anything other than to talk about somebody who's underachieved you should you should you should have applied yourself? All right. More phone calls coming up. Little surprise here. Little extra treat here. Reggie Ella wishes Miller, a hall of Famer Turner, sports NBA analyst. And I noticed that reg tweeted about the UFC two Twenty-nine brawl surpassing malice at the palace in reg joins us. Now I read the it or how are you long time? No, hear in my dad's longtime, no here from well, I'm glad this tweet kinda got guys like energize a little bit. I was letting you be daddy deers. Daddy daycare, you work you through. I didn't want to enroll. I didn't want interrupt at family vacations. Are we there yet the whole? Yeah. All right. So you you were watching this fight and you you were angry enough or bothered by the to tweet out. I'll what today agree and I wasn't bothered number one, fantastic card and Pantano fight not only the the Connor Habib fight, but the whole card was fantastic. It was just funny how this in malaria dese were in line with malice at the palace, but let me start by saying this that all the junk that Connor, but that's Connors stick by insulting and selling pay per view. We've seen this, we seen it before and when you felt the man's faith is family has country. At the end of the day, my opinions are sticks and stones, break your bones names over Herbie. I thought it'd be should rose above, but I get where the angry after he almost choked when Hindi did choke him out. Because if you watch it really closely after Conor taps out, he holds onto it an extra second longer, and then has words for Connor that I was okay with because that was pent up frustration where it sets it off and it parallels. The malice at the palace is when he jumps out of the Arctic on and goes into the stands. Now I hear people saying, well, he was going after Connors ju, jitsu coach, and that still doesn't make it right. Just because he knows how to protect themselves. What about the people around his coach? Yeah, it it still doesn't make it okay. And people say, well, that's boxing. And in this case in me, you sign up for that. No, you don't. You look, I know people when you go to a basketball game, you don't expect it to spill over into the stands. Won't happen. You don't expect it in baseball. Well, it happens hockey. I know there's fighting in hockey, but you don't expect it to spill over, but it happens and. It's never okay. It wasn't okay. November nineteenth, two thousand and four in the middle of it. It was bedlam I to this day, I shake my head on a couple of instances that went down that day, but it it happens. It's never okay. But I will say this, the Commissioner, David Stern was swift. 'cause we had a game the next night and we only played with six guys. If you remember, I was in a cast. I had a broken finger and I begged our trainers to cut off our cast so I could play. We only have two guys. He said the Justice was swift. This is being kinda played out a little bit because all we're going to wait for the commission and visas might know Dana white. You can control your organization and you can be swift and it's Justice because I'm looking at. Yeah, because our tests was banned for the rest of the season. You had Stephen Jackson got thirty games during already games remain o.'neil got twenty. Eight five, which was doubt cut down to fifteen. Anthony Johnson bed, five, Ben Wallace got six. I gotta game Bill o. Cianci got a game gotta game. Yeah. Look, Ron, miss or look. He he five million dollars gone for the rest of the year. I thought the punishment was a little too much. I expected a obviously a fine and suspensions. I didn't think Ron was going to be gone the rest of the year because this made me go back which I don't like to do and look at the replace of that whole thing. Hard foul. What's it heartfelt? What forty seconds left in the game. We were up fifteen heart foul, but the overreaction by Ben Wallace that that created everything. And then Ron is just chilling on the laying down on the scores table my hand on them, and that damn Cup as a corner of my. I see it in slow motion and then the incredible hulk he from David banner to the incredible hulk and everything in sued after that. Now when have went into jump the octagon and went in, you don't. We still don't know because you what I was watching it live Rogan and gang were talking about it, but they wouldn't show the replays crazy. Why is that? I, I don't know why. Why wouldn't you see they tried to sanitize it. Why wouldn't you cover that you had the? Yeah, the do the play by play of what's going on here. You and I wanted to see which was a Bush league by Habib's corner people jumping in and the guy that was tagging Connor from behind what come on man, what a punk move. That's a punk mood. This man just went four rounds. Yes, he got down, yes, you got choked l. but man, you don't come up from behind and tag them in a couple of times. Again. I understand the frustration in the Habib corner. I get it. This do taught massive trash, but you've got you choked the life out of him. And I would have talked trash in that octagon while they were putting the belt on forever. That should have been his like get back, but where he lost everything is when he jumped, but I get it. But at the end of the day sticks and stones, look, you can't leave the field in the field of play. In this case, the optic on you just can't do that. I'm sure they'll be a major suspension for them. I personally do not think he should lose his belts over this. He won't cause the fight was over flight what he had done, what he was supposed to do and he's still undefeated and he put the smack down on Connor. But I think a major suspension will be coming down, but guess what? I'm gonna pay for Connor a b two, won't you his great for this. This is great promotion for. For two, it'll happen just like I thought Connor was going to be banned from the octagon after in April after throwing the Dalai through the bus, I thought three, no way they bringing this dude back that sales ticket. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think they could suspend him for six months, but all that means is he doesn't fight for six months and then and then he comes back after six months in one day, and then he's ready to fight Conor McGregor get. He's not gonna lose his belt, say they may fine, you know a million dollars or something and they move on. I believe if I was two million for the fight and I think they'll probably you're right. They'll probably hold a million back maybe. Five hundred thousand million, but I think he'll get some of his first because the work was already done. He did put it in the words. Yeah, they do you hope to life out of them, but you cannot leave. You can't leave the field of play. You can't. But look the other day, you're talking to a smack talker. I get it. I absolutely get it. This dude was talking so much trash. You know, the way in putting hands on me, I get it. I get it, but you had that when you were choking him out and her beam after he tapped out and was trying to grab you in you held on that extra two seconds that was your Justice right there when you got up and you were talking noise to him, that was your Justice, leave it at that. When Joe Rogan comes into the ring and interviews you, that's when your back, that's when you should have like let it all out. But when you jump the octagon and you go in and I wanna hear, that's his ju jitsu coach and he knew how to handle himself. What about the other people around them? What about the officers had to run in? What if they would have got a stray able? We don't know because they won't release the footage. Reggie guarantee. They'll probably be some lawsuits coming down from some fans who say they got hurt in the Malay, right? It could be good. Yeah, I haven't heard anything, but there could be. There could be some fo- fo- injuries there. Faye, right? Someone just trying to capitalize and everyone's saying, you know, because I heard Stephen say this, and I love what Stephen a. most of the time says, but on this point where he said that no one really got hurt in the April incident from Connor throwing the two fighters could not fight that night because the stitches. Yeah, that's their livelihood. So someone did get hurt, you know, no one really got hurt. No someone did get hurt to p two fighters who came to fight that night could not fight because the stitches because of the actions of greater. He's Reggie Miller. They away get hurt the hall of Famer Turner, sports NBA analyst joining us, but talking m. a. a are you watching preseason NBA of course, what should we be watching for. Really the story is gonna be out of twenty nine other teams who can dethrone the champs in my opinion. Can the Lakers actually put up a good fight against Golden State? No. Okay. No. What about in four months? I haven't figured I will say this. This sounds good. I think Golden State is gonna be I would take two, three, seven in the west form, an all star team out of two, three, seven, and they still not might not be able to be Golden State in the west, especially when boogie cousins comes back because what you did by adding boogie cousins, you added a ballistic missile, a guy that has to chip on the shoulder, a guy that throughout his career, people say, could be untamed has an attitude, but now you add him to Steve Kerr and that locker room and to Draymond green and Steph curry in that winning culture and on ring night while he has to go in the back while the rest of the guys celebrate that's gonna feel his fire. He's I wanna be a part of that. I want one of those so that. Energy to guys that have won three in the case of, you know, Steph and clay and Draymond in two for Katie, you know, it says, I'm getting bored, you have new life, new energy in that locker room. So that's what barring injury, major injury. 'cause they had injury last year definitely played what fifty four fifty five games and they still want barring major injury. I just don't see it in a seven game series. Anyone being able to to beat them do. I think some teams can compete with them. Absolutely. Boston can compete with them in my opinion, that might be even Houston might be it. No, if Andrei igloo dollar does not get hurt last year, I don't think that goes seven games. I don't think that's a seven game series. People forget he was hurt that whole series or the last three or three games. I believe you got the Lakers fifty wins. I do not. I have him in the finishing six in the west, and I have him anywhere between forty five to forty, nine wins if they get fifty wins. They get fifty. One win LeBron James will once again be in strong consideration for MVP in Luke, Walton should be coach of the year if they get fifty one wins or more. I'm just, I'm I, the makeup of the roster's weird reg that you got the young guys. I like it. I like it the Rondo pickup. I love Rondo because Rhonda won't pay off until April and may. And I think he's gonna help. Lonzo understand the game of basketball because Longo has great potential in great talent to me. He just doesn't understand the game. Rondo is a basketball savant. So I think that will help them and you've got to play them together, but Rondo won't pay pay off until playoff time. We saw what he did for Chicago before you broke his hand, they should it be Boston a couple of years ago. And we saw last year what he did for New Orleans when they be Portland swept them in the first round. He is a basketball savant, obviously winning the championship under Doc Rivers playing with, you know, k. g. Ray and Paul, I think is going to pay off big time compla- off time with Rondo. But forty, five wins to forty nine. I think in being number six in in the west, I think I have Denver ahead of them, Utah, Houston Golden State in. Okay. See, you know, I think it comes down to this and I hate to single out one guy, but I I know what to expect from LeBron Kuzina I think Brandon Ingram needs to take that next step towards being being great or close to being great. I, I don't know if he's capable of doing it. I don't know if the shadow of LeBron helps or hurts, but I look at Ingram is the guy who might be really the key. If they're going to be a dangerous team this year. What do you think if this, if this training camp is any indication because they've both played well together two days ago, he at thirty one points in the start playing alongside LeBron James. So if this training camp in this exhibition season is any indication. And that's a positive move move for Laker nation because they're finding ways to coexist, then you're absolutely right because to me, he's the x factor. 'cause if he plays towards the potential that we all believe that he has and he's capable of playing with, then maybe this is a fifty win team, but I just think on a nightly basis, there's gonna be a lot of inconsistency, but those young guys and once again, I think LeBron's going to have to carry the low, especially early. I think they will struggle early. I think they will find their footing of the middle of December probably through the all star break. And then they may falter off a little bit March into April and struggle. Not necessarily you get into the playoffs, but they're not that fifty win team and Lakers to me, the Lakers really are on the clock, not this season, but next season because they gotta get another proven, true free agent. Blockbuster deal and the play alongside LeBron and he's other young guys, and then they're really on the clock. It's good to hear from you will check in with you. When the regular season starts hopes the hope the family's good and we appreciate you calling in family is fantastic. Fantastic. I miss you guys. This is great. I love our energy. Thank you. You know, I try to be respectful because you know when he has his off season, he travels a lot and he's got little ones at home. And so she goes, hey, Reggie was tweeting about the fight. And you know, we could talk to him about the Lakers and I said, yeah, just see if he wants to that. You know, we just throw it out there if he wants to because we love having him on, but he's got a little ones. They're at home. Yeah, it's funny. You were talking about high state, Michigan and going to the game the last time we went to see Ohio State Michigan the night before we were to bar in Columbus and the mouse and the palace happened, and we're watching and a little pub in Columbus, Ohio. Yeah, we're watching this unfold in real time and I'm going wait. Oh, you just punch. Oh, he just went away. We hold on. I think we got changed the rundown here. Fans are on the core don't know and then register in street clothes, and he's and he's like getting our test off the floor and people are throwing stuff on him. I, we'll come back last call for phone calls what's in store tomorrow? What we learned. We'll do it right. For this. Okay. This is just a thirty second commercial and I'm gonna throw a lot of numbers that you please. Please stay with me in just fifteen minutes. You could save fifteen percent or more on car insurance. The company that has been offering great rates and great service for seventy five years. It's gyco. I'm using it for a long time itself. And anytime you need help, you could speak to one of their trains specialists. Twenty four, seven, no recordings. The company gyco go to Geico dot com today. Sorry for all the numbers. But I've been a fan and a customer guy go for a long time and five, four, three, two one. I'm out, hey, there diehards here's some football facts. Even you may not know about the first football game was played in eighteen sixty nine and in an average game, the ball typically play for only about eleven minutes and finally pizza can consumption rates go up during the week of a big game. That's not a shocker. Okay. You probably knew that one. Here's another fact you may not know, and it's actually really useful, especially if you're gonna buy a car if you plan on tailgating truecar also helps people get the right used cars. I'm a big tailgater. You know that. That's right. Truecar's just for buying new cars with their certified dealers. Network and nationwide inventory nearly one million us cars, you enjoy real pricing on actual inventory in a simpler buying experience, whether you need a new or used car with truecar years, could see what they get and see what they're paying beforehand, so they know they're getting a good deal before by not after and find out. You got, you know job. They're also more likely enjoy the buying experience connecting with truecar certified dealers. And when you're ready to buy a used car, a new car, check out truecar, truecar dot com. Enjoy more confident. Car. Buying experience is picked up a new Subaru forester use truecar got out, clean truecar, some features not available in all states. Stay tuned for sixty seconds of eight me news headlines right after this podcast. This is fire fighter Raphael poor yet for firehouse subs. Introducing the new firehouse pub stakes up with savory steak, crispy fried onions are rich, Belgian beer cheese sauce on tap for a limited time or yours at firehouse subs dot com. Today, remember a portion of every Soviet by helps by lifesaving equipment for I responded, firehouse subs, joy, more subs, save more lives, limited time, only plus tax participating locations. Firehouse subs don't even minimum one billion dollars in two thousand eighteen firehouse subs. Public safety foundation donating point one, three percent every purchase. DP show app for your iphone and Android app without a doubt. Best way to listen to the show in the live audio stream, or you can listen to the podcast whenever you want on the app plus tons of show and apple video everyday. Download the DP show app today at the app store. Bars been set pretty high for you. Guys just had Tyler in Toronto, got married over the weekend and his bride surprised him at the altar with the Dan Patrick show hat. It's a nice little wedding gift there. Mid wedding, and you get a DP show hat that he put on during the wedding well-done Tyler well done to his wife as well. I had a few phone calls here. Let me see. Grant Nile was been holding a longtime. Hi grant. What do you have for me today? Hi, DP. It's actually Brinton Iowa VR ent o. Okay. Mario, it's Brent in Iowa. Hi Brent. No. Hey, no worries. It's a pleasure to be on five eight one sixty five. That's the weekend is our, I was state cyclones, going onto road to Stillwater as double digit underdogs behind a true freshman quarterback by the name of rock Purdy and coming out of there with the w. Things. Things are good and cycling nation worse. The weekend is that for the third consecutive Friday, I have submitted a meet Friday, Elvis, Presley rendition, and it has gotten overlooked. Okay. I was calling the there was anything I can do to get some play this Friday, love the show, and congrats on the well-deserved Marconi. Thank you grant. You know, words like that always help, but Seton is the one who's our musical director here. Seton, are you aware of grants? Elvis, Presley. So I'm not. I don't go through the Email. That's another one that Mary. Oh does. Oh, and so he sort of really, he's really the gatekeeper, their mama moat. Was that guy's name Brent grant? Well, it was spelled grant, but as pronounce Brent. Okay, I'll go through and see, maybe. Let's just play today. We could find. Okay. Brenton in Iowa suspicious meet. Do you think he did like with suspicion. I don't think Elvis was ever on Saturday Night. Live. Does that surprise you? Because he died in what seventy? Seven. Yeah, I I'm surprised that they wouldn't have had Elvis on their when. Did s enough start. Fall of seventy five all if somebody's six, I'm not sure which one. Oh, it was a boy Brenston sent a bunch. No, he did to do. Are we gonna listen to this tough to miss that one for the first time? Okay. You wanna play. Let me just preview it just in case he's cursing. He doesn't sound like he'd be cursing. Yeah, those are the one. He's Brenton Iowa. Kevin in North Carolina, who knows what his name could be, but it says Kevin, hey, Kevin. Haiti. Best and worst of the weekend by far the best call of the weekend is the senior getting no spannis announce call from the Graham knows sixty three yard goal. If you guys have not heard it yet, you absolutely have to. And the worst of the weekend by far already Troy. Vincent is already contacting Mike Tomlin about telling the truth about how these calls are causing people their jobs. All right. I know that Mike. I don't know if Mike Tomlin gets fine for his comments about officiating probably does, even if he's correct. He probably does Josh in Ohio. Hi, Josh. Actually pronounce Brent. Thank you. Well, done well done. Thanks. I just start. I was sitting on that one for about a minute. I just wanted to extend this mid west hospital. I live in Columbus about a mile from Ohio State, but I'm from Lebanon, which obviously, you know, home of the warriors. Yeah. And so I am going home to see my mother thanksgiving like a good son does, but I have season tickets to a high state. And so obviously I'm going to the game. It gets Michigan and I just wanted to invite because we have Zeba tailgate in the world. I, I'm in my thirties, but I took it with these guys that used to play for Woody in the seventies, and it is the best tailgate in the world. And I, I won't even advertise it. I won't tell people you're coming, but I would love for you to come tailgate and come to the game. And anyway, just wanted the off. And Josh, I appreciate that. I'll I'll let you know if I'm if I'm headed that way, but thank you for the invitation. I put him on hold so you can get his info down text later by the way he's from Lebanon, Ohio, and we hate Linda. I'm for Mason the comments against the war for good tailgate. You could ignore it for four try. I try. How many do you put up on Lebanon? I didn't. I didn't put up a big number. I think I had like sixteen or eighteen, you know, but they double team me. Yeah, this guy set you up, maybe. No, hey, back, I don't think so. I know the names of the guys that I played against. I still remember their names. Amberg Terry emberg member, he'd never recovered. Is it pretty cocky? Always good play. Sounds like he held you to sixteen. Well, he had helped old me. Yeah. The look, one guy not gonna. Hold me do. All right. Did you have that music? You have the Elvis and present. Here's a brand or grant Ingram. Greg. The. Eating. My way. And. All the. The all right. I don't like the effort. Maybe the lyrics word as sharp as we've come to expect there. But I do like the effort and I'm a big Elvis fan, a honker Burnham meat would have been. I like the old school this. I like go around the room. What we learned in this program make Levin. I'm going to start with you. What did you learn Reggie Miller actually commits me resign. Rhonda was gonna lead the Lakers playoff success. It's Rondo going to be a whole Famer. Wow. I never never thought that was in. I don't know. Just just throwing that out. I can't do that with, you know, a minute ago, particular would Rhonda what's says, if Odell Beckham Judas trying to wreck the team. He's doing a good job with his mouth. Let me start with seating O'Connor here in the front row. I learned that if you are considering calling in and begging for your meet Friday song, make it please don't not a good strategy. Poli, Tim. Kurkin never loses. Energy does not. Tomorrow on the program drew Brees will join us. Maybe you'll have the record-setting night against Washington needs little over two hundred yards to set the record and the PGA tour player the year. You set to join us as well. What did I learn for its Tim Kirch and says, nothing cute about the brewers. They are relentless what we learned brought to you by Dollar Shave Club, amazing shower hair. Or styling oral care. And yes, shaving product. So no matter how you get ready, they have everything you need right now get an amazing deal on any of their starter sets. Dollarshaveclub dot com. Slash Patrick. Thanks for joining us emails, tweets, phone calls, all around support. Talk to you tomorrow on the program. Hey, everyone. It's Ron and Kelly Nash from MLB network with our new show baseball and chill exclusively on podcast, one sports net with us each week as we cover all of the action on and off the diamond with player interviews and in depth storyline analysis of what's happening in major league baseball. We wax with us every Tuesday on baseball and chill right here on podcast, one download and subscribe to new episodes exclusively on apple podcasts, podcast, one dot com. And the podcast one out also rate us Eva speed back. We'd love to hear from you would. Firefight Raphael poor yet for firehouse subs, introducing the new firehouse pub stakes up with savory steak, crispy fried onions are rich, Belgian beer cheese sauce on top for a limited time order yours at firehouse subs dot com. Today, remember a portion of every Soviet by helps lifesaving equipment for I responded via subs, joy, more subs, save more lives, limited time, only plus tax participating locations ourselves with the minimum one billion dollars, two thousand eighteen firehouse subs, public safety foundation by donating point one, three percent every purchase. I'm Rita Foley with AP news minute tropical storm. Michael could be a category two hurricane. By the time it hits the Gulf Coast in the Florida panhandle, governor Rick Scott is put twenty six counties under a state of emergency forecast moves slower and grow stronger, making landfall as a category, two storm mid week long, northeast Gulf Coast. The NTSB is investigating why a limousine ran a stop sign and crashed in SCO, Harry, New York, kill. Twenty people NTSB chairman Robertson Walt. This is the most deadly transportation accident in this country since February of two thousand and nine one resident tells us locals. Consider the crash site. Intersection, dangerous to Americans will share the Nobel prize and economics, William Nord house of Yale, and Paul Romer of New York University. They study how climate change and technological innovation intersect with economics. They'll be swearing in ceremony at the White House tonight for news supreme court, Justice. Brett Cavanaugh. I'm Rita Foley.
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