20 Episode results for "Ron Kuby"

S2  [BONUS] The Lawslinger | The Ballad of Billy Balls

The Ballad of Billy Balls / The RFK Tapes

35:32 min | 1 year ago

S2 [BONUS] The Lawslinger | The Ballad of Billy Balls

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This is the last time we're going out in the field together with your fuzzy wani on the way back in my microphone to are you going to miss my badge. Yes austin and i have spent a lot of time together and one of our favorite things to do is to tell each other. Dad jokes sounds like your nose is. It catches your dad to be babysitter. It goes back stops on baby tomato and says catch up. It's good yeah. I love these jokes. So where are we going right now. We are going to visit the cougs. We're on twenty third street walking in to the law offices of the one and only the law lost winger ron kuby why why record sukuzi because i m szeswith him and i want more we're going into ron kuby office to interview him about his life and the cases that he's worked on again a little bit more of the cougs because the cougs is the man and and he's a great storyteller josh rushing you the town i'm cotillard right and this is a special bonus episode of the ballad of billy valls hello. Hey ron kuby. Hey how are you tom good so where is all buried now. Send send me all that shit now. Try to get something out in the next few days i wait. What what do you mean you get. I think back to then what i didn't intend to work for you. He he is to submit a fresh foil. <hes> my office will do that. I'm pleased to report that xenos paradoxes been resolved and the arrow. He'd has at the target the n._y._p._d. Has sent us a a a talk. If you will record any possibility that we didn't have a gun yes but there's there's nothing to support that theory and everything to support the notion that the cop is telling the truth epilogue three the law slander. The ballad of billy balls is presented by a._d._t. Real protection organized crime and mafia conspiracies is filled the one thousand nine hundred eighty s but you know what was truly criminal the bed prices. A queen mattress was just one hundred sixty nine dollars a total steel. Guess what right now. During mattress firm's flashback sale this special one thousand nine hundred price is back plus with throwback deals on all the mattresses you can save up to four hundred dollars on a new bed without planning a bank heist for bed deal so good. It shouldn't be legal shopped at mattress firm today today thanks for having a strong <hes> floral hawaiian shirt and shorts and no shoes. We follow a barefoot run into his conference room and start talking. Can you tell me about where you come from and how you came to law a little bit. Can i ask you yes or no questions question that i read on the internet yes. Is it true that you lived in a commune when you were a teenager yes it. Is it true that you worked on a tugboat in saint croix. Yes ron didn't wanna talk about growing up up in cleveland ohio but in nineteen seventy four when he was seventeen he found himself on saint croix in the u._s. Virgin islands i was i'm in california from ohio. I was coming yeah. I was never really good in geography i when he went down to visit a friend and he had a beautiful to me beautiful beach house and it was right next to what what was then a calypso bar dislike to me paradise beach bar beach bar beach bar and i don't even have to put shoes on i mean it all worked and i got a job on a tugboat and it was like filled with all these old west indian seamen who were always always brewing these weird teas from plants and stuff and i'm trying to make conversation because we didn't have a lot in common as you might imagine so got interested in herbal teas. He's an herbal medicine. In west indian medical systems at this point ron's eighteen he spending his days learning about medicinal plants on a tugboat and then coming home to the beach drinking and getting high and hanging out then he met a girl. I fell in love with her. She fell in love with me. She left left to go to maine and ron followed but he soon learned a bit more more about his sweetheart sort of discovered that she had slept with pretty much every guy and a substantial chunk of the women in south portland which didn't bother me except except for the fact that i kept bumping into them everywhere and it's like high yeah you too cool ron decided to get out of there and go to college in kansas city university of kansas great midwestern institution where he studied anthropology focusing on those medicinal plants that he learned about on the tugboat and saint croix african traditions and spanish west indian introduce and he's not shy about how well he did yeah i had a four zero average and all this other shit so i was the best anthropology student they had seen in a fucking generation was so when a faculty committee turned him down down for a big fellowship he was shocked and so i'm walking to the bar and i bumped into the head of the committee and i said hey what happened. Why didn't i kept recommended and he said the committee didn't like your attitude attitude so i asked what was wrong with my attitude and he said they found you condescending into sending an arrogant then went to the bar told the bartender and he said you know you ought to go to law school they. I like people like that there. I wasn't doing anything else that i had nothing scheduled for my future. So i signed the idea while in law school at cornell p- ron began interning with one of the most famous civil rights lawyers in the country william kuntsler william kuntsler defended the chicago seven kevin martin luther king junior and malcolm x. among his clients there is no credibility in in government it was all lies to justify wotton cold-blooded murder public officials who sanction and condone mass murder must themselves house be indicted by a civilized society the first summer of ron's internship. This is now nine hundred eighty two. You counselor was defending two men in a murder trial james yorke anthony laborde york will board were to former black panthers <music> who had gotten pulled over for a bed tail light by two police officers and both officers approached the car and a simple will traffic stop european laborde allegedly came out shooting. One of the police officers died the other was shot in many times but survived and so it was a very very very very high profile trial and we're going to be opening statements and there was going to be a wad of media media coverage and i'm just carrying bills briefcase bill and young intern ron head off to a courthouse in queens for opening statements. We're going to the the subway and i bend over for something or bill drops a paper bend over and my pants rip right along the middle seem and crotch ass and it's like i i am now freaking out like i know bills concerned about the fate of two black political michael prisoners and going to prison for the rest of their lives and stuff like that and i recognize i'll really important and shit but i am like now and and there's going to be a lot of media there and bill looks at me and in his way that's fine and then says the immortal words just your clock flop out during my opening aw one of the best razor i've ever heard dough legit cock flop out during my it it's not listed in quotes by william kuntsler in the akkar whatever that is but but their words to live by ryan continued to work with bill kunstler eventually becoming an unofficial partner in his law firm and and the two men were very close. He was my friend my mentor my teacher. My critic great guy to hang out with guy taught me everything that i know about lawyering and he was the guy i probably most most important in terms of my future career. I mean all of those. Things were incredibly wonderful but he was the guy who you got me. Entree into a world and communities that otherwise would have been alien with consular kuby work to defend people like the daughter of malcolm x. associates of the so called gambino crime family and members of the hells angels so the <hes> ohio hells angels charter cleveland charter called counselor's office. I think in ninety nine hundred ninety three of their members were charged with a murder allegedly according to the government that there were two people in sandusky ohio ryan who drove yellow v._w. Micro buses one of them was a large heavy. He said bearded number of the outlaws motorcycle club with whom the hells angels had a long standing uh disagreement the other was a big heavyset bearded but utterly harmless correct store clerk guests which one got killed yeah record store clerk so the feds took over the case and we're making this a very big deal and the cleveland charter hells angels called and asked if consular would be interested in the case bill great you know so we said a fee was a lot of money by our standards. Then and counselor sent me out to pick up the initial retainer or whatever it was but basically put a face to the firm. Her kuby flies into cleveland awaiting him at the airport is an escort from the hells angels. Yeah i get in the car with a giant guy picks me up huge like human arm. Wa style guy looks at me says are are you jewish and like i'm processing this question really quickly. It's like well mother's jewish so jews considering ju- and and i'd be a jew under the nuremberg laws but i don't subscribe either halacha or the nuremberg laws and i certainly don't believe in any gods so my shoes right rapid cycling but that was not the answer so i said yes this is early on to and we went first to get something to eat at corky and lenny's which is a historic deli in cleveland heights ohio whereas the docile ladies would go and eat corn beef and we walk in this guy wearing his health insurance patch and me and my suit and we pump into his aunt who's sitting there with dasa ladies and she's like selwyn so this is my after what can only be assumed is a delightful lunch. Ron is driven to a meeting point to pick up the first installment of the payment. We go to a nondescript office where i meet some of the other guys and they give me the initial installment which was fifty thousand dollars which was a lot of money at that time and certainly more money than i had ever seen in. My wife is cash stacks hundreds wrapped up so i have a briefcase and i start loading the briefcase. You've case the guy across the table from me says. Aren't you going to count it. No it's fifty thousand so it's not because i trust them although i did but because i'm not gonna sit here with a bunch of people watching me one hundred two hundred drake three hundred four hundred five hundred six i'm sorry did i say twelve thousand three hundred twelve thousand four hundred yeah. No i can fuck around like this so i start letting my briefcase and somebody behind me says there's been a change which of plans so i turn around and there's this guy holding a._r. Fifteen at my head look at him. Look at gun what back to across the table to the personality dealing with just sort of waiting and and what i'm thinking is well. They certainly didn't invite me out here to steal their own money back and kill aw i mean there's just no point to that so i don't quite know what's going on but i'll just sit here and wait for somebody to tell me the punchline and they'll start laughing doc and put the gun talk. I didn't get the joke it didn't make any sense to me and what i didn't realize really until reflected many years later was this was a gut check to swiss their way a of seeing. If somebody pointed a gun at two guy who's going to be there voyeur. He would like shit in his pissed. They don't kill me hopefully daughter and passed not because i was brave but because i was confused and bemused which i guess was perfectly acceptable acceptable substitute for courage the scare tactic by the hells angels may have been a joke doc but later in his career ron would face a different threat was definitely real. Semi the bulgar von oh wanted to murder. Are you hopefully way. You said it is accurate past tense. That's after the break. The ballad of billy balls is presented by a._d._t. Real protection the ballot of billy balls is brought to you by third love thirdlove uses data points generated by millions of women who have taken their fit finder quiz to design bras with breast size and shape in mind for a perfect fit and premium infield. It's hands down the most comfortable bra you'll own. Fit stylists are available every day to help the text chat or phone and returns and exchanges ages are free and easy. They have a one hundred percent fit guarantee. Every customer has sixty days to wear it and put it to the test and if you don't love it return and and third love will wash it and donate it to a woman in need third love knows. There's a perfect bra for everyone so right now. They're offering fifteen percent off your first order. Go to third love dot com slash crime town to find your perfect fitting bra and get fifteen percent off your first purchase. That's third love dot com slash crime town fifteen percent off today. When you're selling stuff online getting your orders out can be a real pain time consuming expensive so many carriers to choose from. How do you know you're making the best choice. That's why you need ship station dot com. It's the fastest easiest easiest and most affordable way to manage shift your orders. I've used ship station to sell merch and it really makes everything much much easier. No no matter where you're selling amazon oetzi your own website ship station brings all your orders into one simple interface which you can manage from any device even your cell l. phone and right now listeners of the ballot ability balls can try ship station free for sixty days when you use the promo code philly balls. There's absolutely no risk you can start your free trial without even entering your credit card info just visit ship station dot com click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in and billy balls. That's one word lower case ship station dot com enter promo code billy balls ship station dot com make shit happen all right so to get to the point where the law slinger ron kuby is receiving death threats from the mobster lobster sammy the bull girvan. Oh we have to go back to nineteen ninety-two good evening. It's a guilty verdict. Prosecutors hoped breaks the back of organized crime in new york city. Damn beano crime boss john gotti and his codefendant franklin cossio guilty a host of felonies that john gotti had avoided conviction picture in three previous trials but then his one time underboss sammy the bull girvan. Oh agreed to cooperate with the government and testify against the jury believed the government's star witness mafia turncoat salvatore sammy the bull rondo john gotti's best friend and betrayer as part of his deal gra vano confessed infested nineteen murders and was placed in the witness protection program but then it might just be the most famous snitch of all time but now salvatore a tour sammy the bull griffin o. was planning to murder new york city attorney ron kuby what happened why awesome so fairly short time after he was placed in the witness protection program woman came i'm to me young woman whose father was murdered by bravado and she had put together like a loose group of people home almost always the youngest daughter's of mob guys who had been killed by bravado. I mean he was responsible. Four he took responsibility for nineteen murders now. After time passed the youngest daughter's were pissed and we're especially pissed. The bravado now was looking as though he was going to profit by writing a book called under boss and so they came to me <hes> wanting to know if there was something they could do so all these mob princesses walking in and out of my office and it's like okay. I'll take the case. They talked me into doing it. I called a press conference to announce the filing of the case at julia's restaurant in coney island old old italian place in brooklyn and everybody show up more cameras than i had ever seen in my i wife families came together for the first time today. Fighting a book deal that could mean big money as sammy the vulgar von. Oh and i do remember thinking ourself. Holy shit you know innocent. Black man railroaded by corrupt cops. Two or three reporters on our black man killed by racist cops apps. Be one camera couple local reporters while of blondes everybody the f._b._i. His rap bravado up the american flag and called him a hero and we're here today to try to peninsula that but that may be easier so i filed the case and at that time i had a radio show on w._a._b._c. saturday mornings at that point and i were talking about the case it tells us what he this was around the year two thousand the show was called curson kuby ron and his co host would talk and argue over current events and take calls from listeners what i did not know about at that time. Was something uncalled streaming audio yeah i know i just didn't know about it but it was a thing and it was the things that mr granola had <unk> had from his home in arizona is still in the witness protection program well at some point he had left theft but that's not announced and it wasn't so much the lawsuit that bothered him. It was like a lot of things i was saying about him personally. What did you say you know. What does that. Actually that dance on my tombstone debts absolutely the one thing. I want a my tombstone. Was it something i said. I'm not going to repeat the things that i said but frankly had i developed more judgment. Which eventually did i would not have said them. There is no reason for me the as a lawyer to personalise this case against him but i did and so he was listening and was getting more and more and more pissed until eventually he he decided that he was going to have me killed and it was unclear. You're exactly how that is. The specific method is going to be used but the actual plan had been developed as i found out in some detail he had dispatched one of his lieutenants. A guy named pescucci to to have me killed in texas and the idea was that he would call the office and say hey my name's name's joe. Whatever and i'm the friend of somebody who's locked up in texas. He's heard about you wants to meet you but the idea was i would flight lied under texas. I would be met at the airport which people do i did this hells angels and so i was gonna fly down there and picked me up and and the only as the daily news put the only case i would get would be case of lead poisoning and i think that he did call call but i made it a policy not to take cases in texas after they executed one of my clients. I really didn't want to go back there. Shall i never responded then when that it didn't work to next place they were going to have me killed my wife and daughter and i regularly when she was little win to to what's the happiest place on earth disneyland disneyworld never been yeah yeah. I used to go a lot. When she was a little girl girl. They were going to have me killed his knee world happiest place hugger again nothing came of uh-huh and there's no like plan whether he's gonna dress up as goofy or something because hathaway in this case law enforcement who was like monitoring the whole thing that bothered to give me a heads up and arrested. Everybody involved including von. I found out about all of this. After it happened on. It was a little creepy. There's a daily news amid to cover the daily news with a really bad picture and and the headline one mo hit for sammy me insane besides just being creepy i mean did you feel any stronger feelings that you feel scared. Were you scared for your family news. It was all after the fact. Let's say you're walking down the street with your headphones on not paying any attention and a giant piano falls out the window right behind you yeah i mean holy shit. That could've killed me but it didn't. You're safe would you. I mean i would be more afraid of pianos falling out of windows then like where you did. You think that maybe this wasn't even over yeah sure but i also felt that mr craven at that point facing twenty years had bigger fish to fry so to speak than me. Mr girvan owes lawyer. I sort of reached out to her to reach out to him. I heard back that everything's fine. I know mr ivano was released about a year ago. I think mr gra von is happy to be out of the prison think his family's happy out of prison sub. Hopefully everything's fine. Why do you do what you do. Why do you decipher the people that you fight for it. I i don't know anyone who sincerely we knows how to answer that question. Because that requires a lot of i think deep understanding of personal motivation motivation almost everybody dresses personal motivation in the clothes of doing doing good and so i would need much more therapies and i'm interested in or that have time for or i care about hoped to unpack that so i just don't anymore. Ryan says he's got more important things to think about <hes>. I'm going to work on the case today and i've got tickets to the stones concert tonight. Yes <music> extra allows. It's a good name wasn't van hope. You're not going to the bathroom to bathroom. Oh my god be careful things that i tried to teach my exam and if enough guys assuming standing there and mentoring by the barefoot they'll stop peeing on the floor. I believe thanks ron and thanks to everyone listening. I'll see you next week. The the crime town is stuart ponte and marks merlin. The ballot billy balls is hosted by me. I o till it right and made in partnership with cadence hayden thirteen. You can find on the internet. I milo loves you on everything and if you wanna know more about my story pick up my memoir darling days we have a voicemail set up for you to call us. Here's a message about the cubes. We got this season ron. Kuby cool motherfucker the fucker. If you'd like to leave a voicemail please do. I love it so much. Give us a call aw five seven zero three nine two nine six six zero. This episode was produced <unk> by me and kevin shepherd our senior producers austin mitchell editing by zach stewart pontiac and marks merlin. This episode was mixed by sam bear music by kenan cusak. Our title track is dark allies light asylum. Thanks to daniela araya virtually right emily wiediman greencard pictures allesandro santoro bill clegg ben davis oren rosenbaum the team cadence thirteen andrew andrew in san francisco and of course my mom without tom. None of this would be possible uh.

ron ron kuby billy balls murder hells angels cleveland ohio austin mitchell salvatore sammy william kuntsler york Ryan texas malcolm john gotti billy valls saint croix ron head
S2  [7] The Hunt for Paper | The Ballad of Billy Balls

The Ballad of Billy Balls / The RFK Tapes

29:34 min | 1 year ago

S2 [7] The Hunt for Paper | The Ballad of Billy Balls

"The ballad of Billy balls is presented by ADT real protection. You know, what I realized what's that? You're always very concerned about my year Bramante consumption, but I realized I don't drink coffee one morning, my producer Austin. And I are in the studio getting jacked up on caffeine sound a little froggy when Austin hits me with a surprise the reason that I sound so bad today is that I was up very late last night. I didn't go to bed until after two AM because I was working with Amanda to file for the death certificate. She texted me at midnight saying that she was starting the process, and I was like all right. I'm here with you. Oh, my God it happened and it happened, and it's the death certificate application has been filed. I don't wanna get too hopeful yet. But. What I hope is on the death certificate. What we requested is not just, you know, the date of death and all that, but the cause of death which can only be released to the next of kin, and so she'll receive it in about three or four weeks, barring any type of complication. Then about three or four weeks later. Okay. What days it? It's Austin was working with our editors Zach what happened get closer to my iphone. He got a message from Amanda. It says, hey, I received the death certificate is pretty fucking shocking. Oh, man. My heart's pounding. We don't know what we're gonna find out. So yeah, you're staring at something. What do you what what's in front of your face right now? I'm looking at Billy's death certificate. Which I just really am struggling to believe that we have. Really? This is really really really intense. This is real this is really real. Certificate of death name of deceased William heights men. Please of death New York City borough Manhattan. Homicide. From crime town. I'm till it. Right. And this is the ballot of Billy balls. It was a truck you'll going batch. That's what I heard any impression of who had shot him. Undercover cop. I mean for making shit up based on no evidence, we can make up any shit we want and it's all consistent with the no evidence that we have. Find some paper. And then we'll see what we can make the pieces of paper. I want to think about it. Like a lawyer where I just wanna see the now. Chapter seven the hunt for paper. The ballot of Billy balls presented by ADT real protection will be back after this. After listening to an exciting story full of police corruption crime ridden streets and thrilling twists it's time for a peaceful break for the best rest, you need a bed that's up to the task. That's where our friends at mattress firm step in with the widest selection of mattresses compared to any other mattress retailer. You'll be sure to find your perfect bed at an unbeatable price. Don't let the world of crime theft and wrongdoing rob you of your precious sleep shop now and save big at mattress firm. Pretty New York is right now. So that's so bad. I love when the lights low like this. Let's back it up for one second last winter before we got Billy's death certificate before we met Amanda Austin. And I started our hunt for paper in the east village just a few blocks from where billion my mom lived. So we're on fifth street between first and second avenue. Freezing cold and crystal clear outside in the sun is blasting in from the side, and the trees are barren and on the north side of the street is the ninth precinct, which is the police station that polices. The neighborhood. I've grown up in my whole life. Place. My mom always spits on the ground outside of because as far as she understands. They're the one that murdered Billy. We're searching for the police files from Billy's shooting or what do we want to find out? I would like to hear if they still have records from nine hundred eighty two and where they would be in. How one could get them released. No. That's good. Yeah. I'm with you. All right. Let's go. Thank the station is bustling with uniformed police. A small area near the front is filled with people waiting a pretty French girl is filing a report about her stolen by we walk up to an information desk staffed by smiling cop. I'm good. I'm looking to an incident that happened in nineteen eighty two thirteen third avenue, which is. The cop looks young like real young. But I'm wondering do you guys have records going back that far incident reports and things it would probably have to go through one police plaza. The only records that we have access to everything this computerized. And that was. Jeff. Yeah. As he writes down, the number an older cops entre, silver, just ahead. So folks report. Forty million quoting. Have you wanna even formation out of the police on record go for the young one who blush when you're sick microphone just? He looked like if you put a police uniform on a toddler. He looked like a toddler was going trick or treating. They were actually much nicer than I expected or much more willing to help thinks that has to do with the fact that they don't know what we're dealing. Have reached a New York City police department, we call one police plaza the headquarters of the NYPD. And ask them where we can find police records from nine hundred eighty two to a while ago from eighty three on we have everything on our computer, and then everything priors on microfilm. So you know, it is so you could still request. Yes. We just have to go up and get the archives. Summer. How can I help you there? I'm calling regarding the foil request that I've said we filed something called a foil request which stands for freedom of information law. It's a way for members of the public to access New York state government records show on. Sure. Problem was my mom. Didn't remember the exact date of the shooting? So we gave the NYPD week long range the first week of June nineteen eighty two the NYPD sent a letter back saying that they needed more information or they would close the request. Our speaking help you principle Ellis was the person in the records department assigned to our request very busy day, sir. Okay. Well, I received a letter in the mail that said I needed to provide additional information about the request in order for it to go forward. And if I didn't provide additional information than it would be close. Okay. Hold on. Let me let me see if I can pull up the file hold on. Please. Now, let's see. We may be that date of current and the complaint number. So I don't know either of those things which is why. If that's the case, you know, you know, we can't help you. I talked to somebody else in your office last week who said otherwise. But. Yes. Yeah. But I mean, really. For twenty years. I know what I'm talking about. Okay. I believe you. I'm just wondering if there's any way that we can work together to actually search this out because I don't know the exact date. I know a range. Well, I know they're not going to be day will pay I'm not going to happy about this upstairs and co wreckage section because they did not like idea having go food tons and tons of microphone for nothing. Which is why export specific. I can deal with in the meantime, oh, do this in pieces. I'll just take the time period divided in half. If I do find something. Okay. I'll go forward and down the second half of that time period. Thank you so much. I wish I had better information for you. But I I wanna work with you as much as possible on this. Okay. Plummeting any mirror, of course point stuffing. We'll definite, you know. Okay. Thank you so much. Well, we'll say all right. Good day, sir. All right. I need to grab some food. Yup. And then I want to then just a week later. Are you fucking kidding me? I just got an Email that said the foil request for the police report was closed. What? Saying in regard to the documents, which you requested. I must deny access to these records on the basis of public officers law section, blah, blah in that such records consist of police officers personnel records and are there for exempt from disclosure under the provisions of civil rights law section, blah, blah, blah. You know, sometimes they close these things because they didn't find them. They clearly found something. Yeah. They're telling us that they're not going to give it to right? Compeer pets, Allah speaking, may I help you. So we call principal Ellis to see if he could clarify the reason are requested been denied. I got an Email this morning saying that it was closed. Okay. And it says that it was closed because the records consist of police officers personnel records related to personnel records of a police officer. That's usually exemption to foil request rebut. What is the personnel record? What does that mean? And what it's supposed to be the employment record employment is three of an officer. Yeah. I guess I'm just a little confused only because I was I was asking for the incident report and not personnel records. Well, that would be considered. But. But you do have you do have the opportunity to file an appeal. You do have back. Okay. I really appreciate as well. You you putting the request in there to them to search for it. Thank you for doing that. All right. Can I just ask before I go? Is there any other information that you can tell me about this that doesn't involve going into whatever is denied? Let me see. Okay. Well, let me see the original data instant was June. Happen night June for eighty two the Heitmann incident. Yeah. Eleven PM June third nineteen eighty two. Billy was shot around eleven pm on June third nineteen eighty two it was reported involved shooting. And also, there's another reason why he may not be able to get access particular record because the officer was working undercover. There was definitely a police officer involved and the police officer was working undercover. And for obvious reasons, we have to we have to block any information regarding the identity of the officer. So that's another Roebuck right there. Just waiting to know. I'm just waiting. You know, why this was denied? And that was all principal. LS would tell us out of our hands. You have to make a case that you know, for for getting access to those documents. Okay. All right. All right. Thank you so much principal. All right goodbye. There was no way that we weren't going to appeal. So we reached out to our legal muscle. Hey, Ron, it's. Ron kuby? Your name came up on my phone full. Waffle is here. Okay. Got an Email from the foil people often. Do you want to read him we explained to run that are requested been denied because somewhere in the files were police officers personnel records with this type of stuff do Ron said he'd dealt with this before generally speaking, civil rights law. Fifty a protects the personnel records of members of the uniform services and others. That is to say, I can't get the cops. File I can't when he took vacation days or whether she tested HIV positive or whether in this case, he said, the NYPD seemed to be interpreting the term personnel records in a Broadway. This now reads the way this reads is anything that has to do with police. Like, oh, here's camera footage of a police officer beating demonstrator over the head. Nope. Sorry personnel. Yeah. So so this makes zero sense. So so anyway, okay. Just just just send me all that shit. Now. Try to get something out in the next few days. I I won't send it out intil. You look at over. Oh, wait. What do you mean? You get back to then I'd I didn't intend causing work to is to submit a fresh foil. My office will do that. We're requesting the records and will add a little more detail. Like, there's there's specific categories of documents that you would not no doubt as a lay person. Thank you. A lawful. Thank you. They roughed out HAMAs. How did he leave out unaccepted by? So Ron Kuby is in our corner. And he is dope on Kubis, man. Ron the Saint that he is submitted a new foil request to the NYPD on our behalf. It's three pages loan on his stationery. And it says that it is going to be submitted on line and hand delivered record center. And then he has a list of thirteen separate very specific forms. It's an epic sprawling request. It's Xenos what the police paperwork looks. I don't like we want a piece of paper to say what happened and he's like, well, okay. So I need this this this and this. So for the police files all we could do was cross our fingers and wait. Austin? Hey, it's round Kuby. I spoke with the detective assigned to the class. Really nice guy. He said that the big issue is trapping down where the filed or physically located because there from nineteen eighty two, but he said this should be done the next couple of weeks, and we should have whatever we're gonna get by. All right. Take care. My. Oh, my. So we waited a couple of weeks turned into three then four we tracked down, Amanda and got Billy's death certificate, which said he died from homicide. And it said a lot more. That's after the break. The ballot of Billy balls presented by ADT real protection will be back after this. If you love Omari Hardwick, power or hip hop. Then get stoked for his incredible new podcast Poetics, which is only available on luminary Omari Hardwick sits down with a bunch of your favorite rappers and hip hop artists. And dissect what's behind their lyrics where their songs come from season. One features Wycliffe, John Dave east big daddy. Kane her dizzy Wright, casanovas more this show that I little aspiring rapper that. I was when I was a kid would have to listen to. Luminary gives you access to a bunch of other original shows to that you can't find anywhere else. The luminary app is free to download and you can also use it to listen to thousands of other podcasts, including ones that you already love like this one. If you love podcasts, you should absolutely check out luminary. And luminary has a special offer for my listeners if you sign up by going to luminary dot link slash crime town, you will get your first two months of luminaries premium content for free. I just did it that's luminary dot link slash crime town for two months of free access. Cancel anytime. Terms apply. I didn't fully get that the death certificate is literally just a list of the facts it's back in the studio with Austin looking over Billy's death certificate. So could you read it re I guess just read through the whole thing? And then we can talk about it. Certificate of death date filed eighty to June thirtieth seven forty five AM name of deceased William heights men. Sex's male proximate ages thirty seven years police of death, New York City borough Manhattan Cabrini hospital where he was in inpatient month day year, June fifteenth, nineteen eighty two to three AM. So he died on June fifteenth nineteen eighty two to three AM. He died in the middle of the night, which is extra creepy to me. And for some reason, my brain immediately jumps to the other probably six seven eight hours of that night during which by mom was sleeping and didn't know yet. He was dead that whole night, and she was sleeping thinking that she was gonna wake up and fight the case again and woke up and probably got that call and she said. She got the call in the morning, right? But morning. The hospital called in the dude told me to come down to identify the body. Of really heights men. It was around my mother's birthday, which is June seventeenth. I further certify from the investigation and postmortem examination that in my opinion death occurred on the date, and at the hour stated above which again is June fifteenth nineteen eighty two to three AM and resulted from and then there are six empty boxes. One of them says natural causes than there's accident suicide homicide undetermined circumstances or pending further investigation. And in our case. Our in Billy's case homicide is checked. Which is chilling. Animal instinct was martyrdom. But homicide is when somebody causes the death of another person in any situation, all murders are homicides, but not all homicides are murders. And so then goes on and it says that the causes of death were. And now, this is the really heavy duty part immediate cause multiple gunshot wounds of back back is the first thing listed multiple gunshot wounds back chest liver. Spleen colon and arms with internal hemorrhage survival twelve days shot by police homicide. I came into this questioning everything I came into this process knowing that the only way to actually do a fair and balanced assessment of the situation was to question everything. So the search in that he was killed by the police was also question Mark for me. Because a rumor on the street doesn't mean shit to me I want evidence. So now, we have paper. And the first place that piece of paper says that he was shot was in the back. If Billy was shot in the back. It at least opens the door for serious questions about whether or not the police officer who shot him shot billion self defense. It makes me take the stories more seriously that we've heard from my mom about what she says Billy says in the hospital. He told me he walked to the back store to make a phone. Call says to broke down a front door. Came shooting shot of cold blood starting in a back five times. The question was did you have a gun? No. And that's all that you need to know. I now believe that more. We know for sure that William Hite spin Billy balls was killed by the police. It was in this month of this year at this location, and he died in this hospital, and then was processed by this medical examiner's office. So all of the circumstances have now been corroborated. The only thing we have no idea of is motivation. Motive. Why? Now, I want the police report who shot him. Why what were the circumstances? What's the story that they give? Hey Austin is run could be it's Saturday a little after one. I I'm pleased to report that Xenos paradoxes been resolved. And the aero indeed has hit the target. And so basically at eight fifty three AM on a Saturday morning. The NYPD has a call if you will records. Including all the crime scene unit stuff, including sotos and the arrest report and other what we call de fives. That is statements of the police about the investigation, and there certainly is enough more than here to to put together in there of what happened whether people choose to accept that area for not. But there is a story that the police tell and it can be teased out from the document. So I'm I'm forty them to you. And I'm foreing them to show. Yeah. We'll talk soon take care. I oh, I. Support was our halting second of all there's some fishy, man. There's some something's not right. That's coming up in two weeks. Sorry. Crime town is sex Stewart Pontiac and marks Merlin. The ballad of Billy falls is hosted by me. I took right and made in partnership with cadence thirteen you can find me on the internet, Iowa loves you on everything say Hello love seeing all you guys. And if you want to know more about my story, pick up my memoir, darling days, I love to hear what you think of it. We also want to hear from you. We have a voicemail set up for you to call us. This one is from an anonymous listener timely annoying that you guys don't go ahead. And just at least let us know what the police records say about the events. We know you have them and you're just hiding them soda after episode. You're hiding what happened? You know, we didn't actually have them until we did. If there's something on your mind thoughts feelings complaints outbursts of love and joy, call us and leave us voice millet five seven, oh three nine two nine six zero. I'm serious. Just call us right now, just say, whatever you can also get into our discussion forum on our website, the ballot of Billy balls dot com. The show is produced by me Kevin shepherd and Ryan swaggered. Our senior producers Austin Mitchell who's rapidly becoming my best friend editing by Zach sewer Conti and marks Merlin fact, checking by Jennifer Blackman this episode was mixed and sound design by Sam bear music by Kenny QCI, title track is dark allies by light asylum. Thank you in. In and. Archival research by Brennan Reese, thanks to yellow Araya. Rachel Lea right? Emily liederman. Green card pictures, L Centro Bill Clegg, Ben Davis, Oren Rosenbaum and the team cadence thirteen. And of course, as always my mom without whom none of this would be possible.

Billy balls Amanda Austin NYPD officer ADT New York City Ron kuby Austin Manhattan William heights principal Zach sewer Conti Ellis caffeine producer Omari Hardwick theft Austin Mitchell
Stress Less, Sleep More with Dr Brad McEwen

Body Science Podcast Series

43:05 min | 2 years ago

Stress Less, Sleep More with Dr Brad McEwen

"We live in a highly competitive Saudi with challenges to everyone in the job in the private life. I have Natura path nutritionists educator research. Dr Brad McEwan with me, very happy to be back. Let's go. Welcome to the body sides podcast bringing you everything you need once and should know about fitness, nutrition and training as always the inflammation causes the nation purposes. Mainly and he's not designed to diagnose treat prevent or many any injury disease or other health related condition. Today's podcast is brought to you by the revolutionary new hydroxy burns leap REX these natural therapeutic sleep formula. He's unlike any other designed specifically to combat the negative impacts of poor sleep on the mind and body without the common side of big associated with other sleep is it combines innovative and clinically researched German ingredients recovery in and blew nece with us safe ribbon hoods to calm, the mind and sued the news, helping you sleep better. How by a low levels of stress, anxiety and reduced muscle pain, improving your recovery, time and enhancing mood, sleep bitter. Woken a body science, the Heimer fit happy and healthy. With me today. Dr Brad McEwan Brad Howe. I I'm very well. Thanks and yourself. Good for those that didn't pick up on your first podcast with awesome jenex. And we did a few other really cool on the guy back and listen to those Brad you and tell us about yourself for we start dodge brand McKiernan metro Peifer bliss, nutritionist educator. And researcher twenty years clinical experience and fifteen years teaching and you just dropped some research recent in relation to chocolate's good for us chocolate. Good for anytime of day Arkan, you're gonna get a lot of with chopping. If you want to catch Brad on Instagram. It's at BRI MC e w e n so the reason we got Brad. And today is it's it's about lost all anxiety sleep stress youth fraud out there, it's a competitive society, and this challenges everywhere everyone's going challenges. Whether it's in job, it's in your private law. We're going to talk. I don't want to angel and he Brad's cognitive performance and talking about during the day and then at night, what are your big five tip? So if you've got some tips for us in relation to called him a form of things we should look at what should we do? You know, he's competitive. What do we do to make people live better off these all big topics? Yes. The world has become more competitive. There's a lot more stress. Lot more mental stress. I want you to imagine. If we go back in time one hundred years and read the newspaper. There's more information in that newspaper than what one hundred. As before had this rating learning retaking lot, more mental and emotional stress. Imaging a lot less physical stress. Silo? We're not out plowing fields, for example. So we're taking a lot of it on board with thinking about today thinking about yesterday focusing what we're gonna do later on today. Maybe tomorrow planning events, wherever it's, you know, we've may I do a lot of conferences on planning a lot of head that way of people might be just planning taking the kids out of pocket for says a lot of mental distress in a free dynasty frag or clear that cash enough it it burns us stays on us. Why day frankly, the case, that's right? Since might a heard a sighing the other day that pay think of the past have depression, pay think of the future have anxiety that doesn't leave a lot left for people who don't think. That's right. It's like living in the president exam. But it's we might up oval memories. So that's one of the things we have to think about and sometimes is memories stay there. Good and bad. And we Conway's processes and thinking about the future is like what you said. It's having that executive about the future. What if I can't pay that Bill? If I lose my job. But what if what if what if and that's a lot of memory spice being taken up and some people have had more stress than others in life. My I doubt a ten stresses different Ueda attempts stress. Everyone has different stress levels so capable that in mind stresses an underlying driver of nearly everything do and thinking of what we're talking about. Today, it affects a lot of their memory concentration out cognitive performance. So why don't we throw mental and concentration around the word positive mood coping with stress like why are they so associated today? I think why we think about it is effective each other greatly. So when you have a positive outlook, your thinking is clear your memory concentration. But I want you to imagine you having been a bad diet as would be the dark cloud, the contracting cloud, overview, you, feeling it'll be saddled depressed about whatever reason it is. And I want you to think thinking, clearly, okay. So you thinking thinking you've forgotten ks? I forgot to do something bicyc- things, and it's very hard to get that mental clarity back. So they do often get lumped together in the same compensation. That you know, what drives and thrives is a good mental health locale. So why would mental focus concentration and memory promote a com positive mood. Now, that's a big I say sometimes dine step in the same shoes. If you ask me yet. It's something we all put together when we talk to people when we we put draft from a brand, perspective, etc. We talk about these components going hand in hand so on and now, it's a I I think what it's coming down to move us word stress a lot today 'cause there's good stress and distress effectively use wittstrom stress. The fact very good by Jack's where Renan's today around fire. I want you to think that he has stresses. It's Saini short small word that affects us greatly. And if we have the Rodman estrus, we get up out of bed in the morning retreive. We live for the Di do everything perfect. If we have the negative con distress. We survive not thrive, and I have a ton that just knocks us down Knox's down Knox's data just keeps doing that. So I want you to think everyone needs to think that stress is a good thing. To send point is it some top of definite. No, you don't have this written down in front of you. And it's probably allied to questions or definition of stress. I mean you talking about stressing positive as getting out of bed and all of a sudden hawk quotas. All you hit into that type of thing later on people need that that flawed on a flawed aspect of law. But then we all spend old. I try not to be stressed or letting stress get the better of us. And is there is there a definition of what stresses and what I'm trying to work? I don't want the clinical, blah, blah, blah on one. I stress is this but being stressed this. That's not stress like looking for that rut that little landing in the middle that we can all have happily walk across to that Lafi is full of stresses. Well, it is love is full stresses from day one. There's all different types of stress where it's environmental physical mental emotional wrong, temperature luck get hot and flustered because of the hate that's a stress now to feel stressed and have stress can be two different things. Yeah. So keeping in mind different has limit and Iran's limit is different sort of stocks. When you think about it is this different ffices as the alert phase where we're aware of the situation. Action. We can save the stress wherever to sabertooth tiger or something in the distance were alerted to it there's stress sometimes we don't see the stress at this example, we can say the cyber tiger at body then goes into the acute phase of what do we do? Do we fight because it's in the distance to remind where we are to remove away, which is you flat. What do we want to do a lot of us will stay because we can see the stresses off in the distance. It's knowing nearest. It's tomorrow's deadline, for example, not today. So it's it's all right. But then cyberattack tiger stress gets closer and closer. And as it gets closer. It's not Linnea. I want you to imagine his steep curve as it gets closer as a stress builds up. It's building and building and then it hits out threshold. And that's when stress chances stressed when it changes. And now we then Mike again the decision. Do we fight and run for the dying kick going or do we actually drop it and flat and just say rock just can't do it? This is the bright down sort of exertion side. Because how do we help those people that suffer from what you just talked about? So the flight stages happened. I ca. Just can't do this. I'm at Moines Whitsand or whatever word you want to use. How do we help people? What are some things we can do one? The first things is recognize it everything has its limits, recognizing it as a fist edge set from a workplace perspective way. All we have to remember. We're talking about some tips here and cut you off on number one, which is a massive nine. What should we do phone workplace in a home perspective to help someone recognize that? I'm actually glad you sit at that way is work and home China, not to take work home. And I know it's hard sleeping at the. I not to bring Hyman to work because I. Emailing when I am this morning. So I want you to sort of think we do need to actually have some kind of limit to that where we say workers for work ran a twenty four hour world now. So earlier today, I wasn't emailing to the other side of the world secretary white that Tom is getting into bed. So I'm gonna business I've ac- so nine to five days null nine to five it's extended and much more greatly. However, we can still have that division. So something would turn around and say or out since we have dinner fines off not at the table. And then for half an hour. You can check emails whatever afterwards, we still have a time. And we know it's twenty four hours Saudi so therefore expect to find call was something maybe say to that person. Can you call me between seven and seven thirty pm gap, for example, control of what I could control does abound dri. So even you still doing work at home. You've allowed that boundary and said, he's my home work time as in this is as the boundary if he call me at seven thirty one I'm sorry. I'm not going to answer Qassam with my partner with my children on with whatever. I'm. Being thankful tone thankful time again to the gym doing a workout on going for walk. It's my thankful. Thomas one. I'm doing for myself or for my family as well. So having those. Yeah, I don't want to comb Barry is, but actually putting up those foundations in place saying this is my work, Tom this my hometown going to build a building you've got to put some foundations Dan signed thing as you say from a work perspective. I guess that's turning night of -cations of emails and the emails when you wanna go to eight miles. That's Tony notifications off your phone. What other things are work as a as an employer? What could we do to help out team wellness wise in relation to aknowledging? That is starting to happen out sort of deadlines that we can't that's it, obviously. And sometimes it did launch contract. Yes. The deadline is this is the way it isn't today's well, some people you turn off the notification some people go as far as deleting the apps, which I think's a little bit too fogs, and you'd have to reinstall and set it all up again, which causes more stress. What was that password? Again. I need to take something for the password. Remember, but the thing is it's like, I would always say ten nine fixations some people you can set your fine now to actually a block blackout Tom's, Sarah, no Imos messages after this amount of time. Put you out of office on say Ron knows not there is August twenty four hours a day work now set the time and place, and whether your single married doesn't matter have boundaries for yourself, and we've your family, so you can organize it and say these were times outside of were falling on what you said. Like, I might be working waiting on an Email and are now it's gonna come in light of that night. Why can't stop that are con- hope that? But at least I know in advance Arkansas that cyber toothed tiger. And the distance thing the Email in this case that there is an Email. It's coming I have to answer it. So I know it's coming in regards to workplaces. We need to have the the rest and recuperation stage. That's good sleep during things you love always side of people. I mean, not doing numbers at the moment. Do things you love wherever it's work. I love what I do that's watches to do it. Other people do it because they providing for the family. This reasons why people do what they say love driver. Yeah. It is you're doing for your family because you want them to guide to better school go to camp or something else. Like that. There's a love driver. I always say find something you love. And you're the manor people ask us what what hobbies do you have what you love doing? And I tell me, and I'll get when did you last do it? And I saw cart member so want you to think of what time of year. It is right now, I love photography. I take a lotta out taking full moon. You know, all this kind of stuff. I love photography everywhere. I go like fighters I love travel are trying to regularly, and that's my outlet icon drill. I'll be honest until the whole world, I cannot draw not nod est account paint. But I'd love titan fighter. And that's my outlet. I get creative. But I don't do federal or anything that I take it. As is an on, creating we've my shutter speed and aperture, I do that kind of creativity. I'll work with that. And that's my outlet. And then if I can walk in get outdoors and do all that with it. That's the perfect drive for me. So from a work perspective get at launched time. Don't you sit down and redefine and each food aid said h got for walk try and get as much as you can. Those breaks. That's it. What a lot of people do is sit down there gown to work. And I sit down the day. It's great. I've got water out in front of me, which I'll have some soon because we need to be hydrated. But some people actually have water drums next to him effectively a laugh to get up. Yeah. And that's nice. But not you need to get up. They aided the desk of the morning to afternoon tea snacks lunch. Jayme house checking fine doing so much. But then all breaking from it allowing that again that defragmentation really several talking about earlier. So I said to people if you can get up if you'd go to sitting down job and office get up every half hour every half L stand on your stand up. Some people say one hour that's a long time. So I save get off after half an hour. Thirty minutes get up walk to the opposite end of the office and back shoulder shrugs re-something just get some movement gangs, goodfeet cadio-vascular system could feel nervous system and just pretty much allowing you to defray from that thing that you're reading right now because you might need to concentrate, and you're talking about day fragging, all what a shame that mice people who got up and did that who listen to what you're saying. If they grab their fine stride. Away jump on jump into some type of social media. What are we doing to us elves in doing that? And that's part of the my movement. If I might fear missing out. So it's like yet work what the world is round. This is doing and as I get that one minute break Assayed a lot on the trains them in public transport, straddle either on off Saint PayPal ready for this one that Phil between the gap between the and the platform. I had to pull them out that he actually went paying attention. Look either fun and went right down at the pull them. Out douse scary. Actually, I hadn't that was mad. As was very scary person freaked out too because people look Cup look up to the world around you. So it's like, that's I k gun have your minute break we walk around. But thank grabby fine. Or what have you need to do that can wait till I get up and guy woke I over into the office. Sit back down naked fake us on that Email. That's very intensive Junaid raid saw God, the example, the laptop sitting here sort of using this as a tool to essentially what I'm talking about this. So I could be looking at Email now working on it. And then the intensity of the work lead on that can actually lower your intensity book courses drawing you're in. It's taking too much in jetty out of you cuisine. You more stress, and you lose your focus. You drive clarity get up guy. For thirty second down there. Come back. Rub. Some water. Yeah. Grab some coffee or tea or whatever you think is do that. Maybe some of the stuff in front of us, he relaxed for that moment it allows for that clarity. Then you go back to that Email and got that's the answer on laid unable to expunge it. And that's the thing. It's short quick break allows the body to reset recharge and Lucca civilians, actually, very good for cardiovascular system because people sit down long at a high risk of you dig vine from Bose's, etc. It's not just on planes and trying to example, you'll be in your office in your risk you need to get up and move around as a lot of good research coming around about movement. So let's keep moving people keep moving somebody. Let's just say that's really good advice. Dr Brad, but you live in a bubble on gonna get up. I'm going to grab my fine because I'm suffering from five nine which my fear missing out yet. I'm suffering from my so what can we do as individuals to assist us around a lost? All that means on connected twenty four seven. So I'm Anne, and I'm talking from your clinical perspective. And when you you talking with you. You someone guys because it happens on we do I see. Okay. Yep. Soon as I stand up, whereas my phone, grab it wall. Stride on inst-. Look what they're doing. Oh, jeez. Aaron Europe or Jesus training all missing out. Yeah. Missing out. So what can we do as karma society to help us like to help us along those lines? What can we supplement? What can we what can we plan? What can we do for those people? Like if I said to my you can't have you fine for now. They would look at me and go to the US stepping on very dangerous grants and having I think what it comes down to is the autopilot the guy from one device to the next. I was reading a study recently, which is funny enough to say that actually worked out that when you look at fed is from the nine hundred fifty s you've actually go people sitting on trains, let this reading the newspaper joking at the outside world. Now, we have how devices doing the same thing. So it's been a trend that's been going for a while. But now, it's a lot more electronic. It's changing the information being provided to us is nonstop. And if you've got notifications. On I spoke Instagram Twitter, where k miles hustling miles. It's picking at your, and and vibrating it's telling you lucky walking along vibe writes in your pocket, you pull it out. What's Rudeina hand, it's automatic pilot mode. And we have to be very careful that so being present in the moment. Lucky you said in the past depression in the feature anxiety, leaving in the mind and can be hot to gazette is that fear of missing out. It's the activity. It's being now now now pressure we have so one of the things we have to have is acknowledging that removing that old ipod, for example, and focusing on the now if I could see on the moment, then we look at how foundations will fundamentals guide for the war, proper hydration. And when the main things people forget, which is very easy is proper nutrition. If you have Goukouni nutrition, you are already wants dip ahead. So what foods should we be aiding for focus? One of the main ones are defined various for is nuts and seeds like very easy H day. I have a different I suppose packet on said, hi, I've got all these different containers all the different nuts and seeds, and I literally have a one that's our. I bet on that high and wide, and I'll just go to pick up sort of small handfuls of h saw Mon have almonds. Brazil nuts cashews. Walnuts. Sesame and pumpkin sits day tomorrow. I might have the same ones, but different amounts of h 'cause it's random selection, and without on getting my vitamins minerals, essential fatty acids, Massiyuk quotas approach, and which parts of those vitamins and essential fatty acids are actually doing a Safai we're looking for our Moi's looking at will vitamin B seeks zinc magnesium. They have so many functions in the body. Enzymes new transmitters bouncing homeland levels cellular energy flies taking Amiga three supplements. If you have that combination zinc magnesium basics, the trio she tight those together, you're gonna metabolize you make three better. They have flexi which is gonna make it three six nine. And when you say metabolize your Magath, raise better. What do you mean technically this couple of pathways? One of them's called delta fog to set your eyes and one's delta six to centralize. And I want you to imagine as technical thing cetera. Maine's take something. Away day, it's removing and when a changes the Amiga Compiegne, it's Mike it more by a valve in the body to avert to be used. And if you have a deficiency in as nutrient sink, magnesium basics unite effectively metabolize use essential fatty acids properly such as a mega three. So I got a deficiency. You're not gonna use them correctly. That's correct for Hedwig step around that again, looking at diet having a good diet reviews. Speaking to a qualified nutritionist is go by around it. Oh dot Titian. Dow guy feel dot now. Check oil Varamin. Oh, prior ten counts, etc. And his vitriol programs that do that for you. And then I can see where he deficiencies are. And sometimes we need to supplement who's supposed to maybe heavily deficient year running on empty. Now. You mentioned the happens a lot more than you think peasants running on empty, and what we need to do is make sure that we replenish that system. And sometimes a handful of nuts and seeds is not as as today is a handful nuts and seeds. So not since as my that's an interesting one because I always talking to you earlier, and you told me Brazil nuts Nauta had see it. So what is that? Maine. Around Australia has some of the oldest stores in the world. It's just because the land. So I said to paper when you're looking for Brazil nuts, look from Brazil. Okay. Co Queensland nuts. And that is I enjoy day. I looked Brazil nuts from Brazil, certain foods, come from certain places in the world talking bad, but Celia, for example, is found in India taking really any get it from the so I sent areas grow. So it's better is different herbs that grand different places in the world is one could civilian side just grinding Oxford University in the paddocks out the that has different constituents compared to the rest of England or even strike so that comply very big row where something has grown. So as looking for gluco quality ingredients is in but also supplement Anaya for fact, the bonus at we source from Germany comes from a little province in Germany, and it's got some pretty cool aspects to I'm obviously week we use balloonists in stress Brooks. Yes. So Daytona stress and annoyed. Tom stress product. So why is something like where an ingredients grown so important it. It comes down to everything is made up of. Chemicals. Are the best way. We'll talk chemistry for second. Everyone at buddies Matt up chemicals, the soil plants everything we ate review Mehta -tarian vegetarian. Yep. Everything's mad chemicals. And then if we break it down that could be then metabolize with different features, etc. And if you think of wherever it's Oxford or wherever to little province in Germany other apply slot that the soil contents different and has different mineral levels different. The soles of my add up of just different constituents and that gets taken up by the plant Sagan have the same. Herb grind in two different places and have similar constituents, but one would be more for memory stress, and focus and Evelyn may work more the sky, something different homelands avow Beith do the same thing. Just the focus on the plant is different. And in your example, blindness is a good went to work with. So why let's talk about Luna's for second it Spain in quite a few human studies. Yes, I'm not sure if you've read those, but tobacco compulsive mind, but a Kuyper stress even talks about I July cognitive impairment, probably a lot of people who he listening to us. Care bat now, but we are all wide twenty four seven or member middle ages twenty five. By chemically speaking, why would a brand like balloon us going about certain aspects of their extract that Mike you thi- sites bitter form of lemon balm than what's available in the marketplace Judea a few concepts like it's he gave you asked me to say. Would he knew rose Merrick? Is that the right word? Yes. Rosemary, Nick acid. Yeah. They guy. See I'm not an expert in that area. Say to sound technical. We have to use really difficult words. Yeah. That's why I bring you in because you ought technical. I'm just here to make sure the show keeps going on semi what's ago with like, for example. That's one of the things. I hop on. Let's I'm talking about ingredients. And generally but balloon his hop on. That is obviously that comes from a certain little province in Germany. And that's obviously why they grow up there because it's naturally gone to enhance the exactly enhance it hasn't had anything done to. And that's the difference which you'll notice with some products that hasn't been enhanced. So I want you to think that Limbaugh that's being used for over two thousand years when us for stress anxiety memory concentration and just good for just health. If people get the butterfly. The stomach that kind of stress is well, and then because it's grind grinding a sitting area that Seoul content in plant content has a higher level of that active constituent. So I want you to imagine everything has chemicals in there as saying earlier. But in this case, it has a high level of this Rosemary, Nick acid and nets the constituent that seems to be doing the extra cognitive benefits. Now Adra let it cognitive decline jumping back to your statement. There. That's something that a lot of us young folk are worrying too much about right now, but society is getting older. If you look at the aging demographic is a lot more seventy year olds eight year olds now compared to hundred years guy, for example, we're living Lunga, hopefully, healthier in some cases, not because various different chronic diseases. So the benefit of having a supplement with balloons Senate is at its able to improve cognitive ability a memory concentration fighters, and I've wrote Dr because she can think clearer allowing us to give for twilight years a lot easier. So dumbing this down for people at myself out there. Why does the lemon balm help? With that. Like what what is it about that extract? What is it about these herb that people who actually tight the product or just love it on on mean? Like, why an and that's a tricky thing it has many different pathways to work some and some of them. We just don't know yet. Okay. There's always that we've research that we're aiming find out the reason why one of them has this effect with the neurotransmitters and home minds, which has that anxiety or antianxiety effect. So it allows us to sort of come down that little bit a wine diapers out. Mike, Israel groggier. Anything? Just calms down. Louvred silicon Montana focus another area works. We've is Gabba say gamma mandatory casted. So there's a lot of talk about Gabar. It's really good for you. I Dan supplement Gabba. I use herbs and nutrients that allow body to produce it more effectively regulated see get a better result round. That's a result much better than getting a high that then drops very quickly taking a product. I've Rava guy for something that enhances the buddies I natural ability, and I want you to think about Gabbard quite interesting, though, I have works in the buddy at. Allows you to think more clearer and allows you the tons do sites. I on one side, it's the accelerator. Larry's to think clearly, but it's the bright side children tend to have a high level Gabba naturally cassia landing the alphabet mathematics in the world around him and learning that capacity to learn his very high because it has his Gabar effect where we sent that glad to go to the Tom in the world because in their brain by chemistry. They do they take near everything on learning about the world and the world around him as we get older at naturally declines in some people declines worser. And that's when they get more issues with their memory concentration and focus. They can't remember that just put the case like a minute ago. Yeah. Because the different stress levels of people might be work commitments. I forget amazing. Let little things that we just turn around. And think is that really big issue will. Yes, it is. And it's forgetful nervous, a massive stress driver. It is a lot of pride ourselves on memory and being out or member things, and we'd waxed off to really focus on it and figuring someone's name that you've nine for wall. That's a huge dress or member that push. Even from such and such at dismised, nothing to me someone said that to may be thinking nice sorry that person from such and such and that causes more stress. So it's a very big stress. Driver, memory and focus, not just forgetfulness big issue. That's interesting. I didn't realize it children had however level it it isn't it allows him to really land take on things. And so what do we lose it? I deny some of his dilu- from L essences. You're probably have no gaps in the system. They're making mistakes. But it just the why I'm thinking with the way I have body works is we hit that age of twenty one to twenty five where buddies now sit it's hitting the Paik you picked by mass your muscle Mesler, everything sort of getting to that stage. Now, you Brian has matured. Everything's got to point where it's like, he got you got everything you need them life now. Go ahead. You should have lunch lessons by now. Okay. Somebody wanted twenty five. Yeah. Louis pass that for some people haven't length is lessons because they might have had extra stresses in their life low levels gather poor nutrition, they might leave. In a home with violence or not poor who a pony Trish in for example, schooling. My obtain Judah sickness, I'm out of an outer tend says all these little factors where the thanked about and that sort of putting a bit of a Dallas on my conversation, but did a things of people having the weld, and then hack can we improve that living in the past with the depression side, you said Faber can travel the whole life of that. But can we not necessarily move on? But can we do something about it? And the answer is. Yes, some eight your Bisi it to summarize where we're at at the moment we wake up with stress, and that's good. Yep. We get stressed when we go to what we need to have a management plan in place for that. Whether it's decreasing the five mile levels stopping the night if occasions possibly looking at having the at midday snacks. And you know, you're not Seiji mentioned what you have for the chiefs and copy cobs. So they're not helping us now 'cause I give us that quick high. I tie goodbye. I do I love myself. But I did give you that quick high. But then you get that quick droughts. If you maintain your blood glucose levels, the your Crimea magnesium as. Well, but if you maintain that you maintain the energetics to the Brian allowed to go through you mentioned earlier having a coffee or lemon balm or as we make a product on here on Trump backdrop, guys everyone. I'm sorry. But Hodge ops. You've been in clinical. Nope. Has that fringe milligrams? Which is what the research says does good things. Yes. Why would we have a potentially calming agent like blue nece with a potentially aggressive caffeine and feel free to knock me down. When I say that because everyone handles caffeine differently. That's true along with some B-vitamins, etc. One of the things we have to think about is. Why have the buddy works at balance technical would is highest ISIS. Yep. It lasts a balance and by combining different things together in a formula. And I want you to think of you got to activate as in commas gone by putting them together. Some people think isn't that contradictory that doesn't make sense. But now think about how the way the body works. It's maintaining balance all the time blood glucose drops it releases, but a Glock Aegean like glucose guys up brings it back like it's continuously. That's just one example is continuously breed. Balancing, things sometimes you actually need to provide nutrients vitamins minerals, amino acids, who will medicines, etc. At different times of the day to allow the body to work it out in some cases of might be the beginning of the day. I've had some patients where you know, you can give them vitamins at night and everyone got on that's really bad or keep your Wyche. Now, it doesn't that's one example of someone keeping them awake. At doesn't always keep your white because it depends on the person's balance everyone's individual everyone's individual, securing that in mind if we're gonna do. Yeah. A blue Ness in the morning, which is going to have that nice calming, but memory concentration focus drive, which is what we're doing at work, which is what we're doing a work, adding extra nutrients to help fortify strengthen that affect that. Then allows you to get through the day and towards the end the body was thought coming you down naturally because the buddy knows that it's dynamite. Sequence mice the time during the day were active or Weiqun moving around and saw Benjamin, Franklin, etc. Says a hits not time. You're very Don you play rest and recuperate. So. And by doing it this way at allows a buddy to naturally work for the prices so much sound contradictory. But it works it balances things out by chemistry, home, engineer, transmitters, etc. And by doing it it balances the flat. Like, I said from a brand perspective about here bodies on fucking talk about us for second. Without hydrog span clinical way, talking about giving focus and energy in the morning. What we say have that clinical when you hit wh- talk time less. Good time to have that it is very much off even vise lie for breakfast, for example, tycoon with breakfast. And by the time, you get to work you're in that face. It's already being absorbed into the system, and it's starting to process. Okay. Knauss? So that you that gays you up during the die side that you can actually create a platform to have natural slate, but I be using the correct woods, and you are and the thing to remember is that priming fucking ramming would priming the priming of the buddy. And my buddy spirit if we're gonna for the whole day allows us into focus into the night. Because one thing we do think about we get home from. Work. What have you done today? What can we do? Tomorrow are is live really creek, really, HUD. We lose out fibers which causes more stress. DNR kids dinner needs training catch out fable catching up a paper. Checking emails lot. We mentioned decent work stuff at high. But then we're not focusing clearly on gained slate. It's literally as if we have to say it sleep time now neck to the body to put us into that mode after buddies not FICO st-. You're gonna get what people the monkey mind a monkey mind. It's it's razzle-dazzle was all have the place. It's like everything's firing off at the wrong time. And remember the all die sites. I count shape doesn't work. Remind Monem gang is one cheap to at ten. Now. Flonase to it's really active the way, my brain works that doesn't help me at. Oh, okay. So she reactivating things. But it still that need to fight us to say we're heading towards the end of the day. We need to def- Raghda dry for the Brian clear. The cash focus on family and friends and everything else that we just said and actually allowing us those to go into that relaxation moat and. Is that an important way to sleep like what what the issues with dropping? And I neither is a time and a place for prescribes sleeping, pills, etc. I travel I use them on planes. And what is the long-term goal? He for people with sleep. I mean, we're talking my where we're pretty much heating the GM in the industry that we play in then were probably having some delete that meal prep dole prepared or my my my not be done. And then we're going to sit down I'm gonna jump on St. and have a look what the world's doing maybe catch from TV. But sitting there wa-, so what should the fitness industry? That's probably a bad way. It's a big one. That's how we can use. It all want to think of a lot of fitness and health. Yep. So we'll combine it's big. 'cause we're now really finding a how important good sleep is. It's not just the quantity, it's quality. So a lot of research Shang seats to nine hours per knocks six on on bring that now on. I remember my last around six to nine and so good quality sleep, and that will allow you to actually rest recover clear, the cash get you ready. For the next day. I'm not gonna rant. He had his lemon balm balloon us. It'd be a good quality sleep. Well, at allows the buddy to come calm, and relaxed. It allows you to prices and think about the digress. You got that bit of fighters and clear the mind monkey mind of things that are bothering you say, everyone has something that bothers them. Yes. Honestly, or we can all gray in hook land that everyone has something that's bothering them right now as we're talking is something on your mind by mine, tanning that focus and clarity. He can actually prices better and say, should I really be thinking that you know, how they say problem hard as a problem solve whose problem wasn't are you taking on someone else's problem having these and you taking it on. That's a big thing. So we have to tear us. I what is bothering us right now. And if we're not fakest, redone, the clarity we tight that into tomorrow and the next day and the next day and then that snowball Dame roller fixed that's happening like in the cartoons. Yeah. The countering character gets wipes. The that's what happens in where do we go? We put into bit. We go to bid we get put into bed square. So exhausted and stressed. We cock it up and in the buddy makes us rest and recuperate. You get sick might be cold or flu or just Tuttle exhaustion. But the buddy makes you do that. And then you're out for the count. And you really need your go quality nutrients and everything to restyle as body get you up and running again, I Saint Simon patients always suffice crash and burn 'cause an all the Cavs themselves looking off to everyone else, but not really taking the time to say on a to look after myself Salk. And look after hours is a big deal on NF kids, for example. But if I did I want to be able to plan during them, not by myself sap saw could we need to recover. And if we're taking Simon that bombs us at NAR and knock saucer, what's the long term effects of that. It's out of fischel sad slack being worked on the head of the hammer. You get knocked out and you wake up groggy. The next day. Short term something would do need it because I do need to absolutely have that sleep. Because getting to that exhaustion stage. Always consult your doctor and healthcare professional to my SRI tightening, the riot and doing the right things have decided that you have to make sure. Doing that Ron Kuby the wrong thing know listened to medical advice on that one. But if we can tend around and say while doing that, let's look at vitamins minerals herbs diet lifestyle. You know, we'll talking earlier today about watching on what's Watson in movie. I want you to imagine we watching Terminator or predator or something. There's a lot of action as a lot of things going on an EMMY guy it's bedtime. Your adrenalin up cortisol is up. Everything's up and firefly because we've today's trying out of bed you trying to get a bed. You're in the movie, which is technology. We're trying to switch it off my conto that we need to a good sleep. How to do that? You're you mentioned sleep hygiene and just stepping back to Al hydroxy. Burn sleep Rx. I've had really mixed results with that from people like people who some people on it. And I got just lovely stuff. Greg. You've changed my life. And I got something went not didn't might me. Gotta slave dot com. I'm gone back to whatever was on. So is there a reason from that hygiene that sleep hygiene point of view on where we wanna go why a product like what are we going to that? We've got lemon balm. We've got. Kaaba? We've got Czyz averse I sign that would basics there. Transmitter powerful as as some crime in there as well should have things in front of me. Next time. I go down this path of talking. Why would some people love this product and some people go, I'm not sure if it's working or not sure if I should continue taking it should they continue taking if it doesn't put them to sleep help they sleep hygiene. Like where are we with these like, we're talking people supplementing sleep, and these point some I'm gonna I start off with why work review? Yep. Mrs just with anything you can do in this world. It doesn't work river on the sofa seven billion people. So you always find some my words pharmaceutical ones, everything you do in life. It's not gonna work for someone out of seven billion. That's one person example to. Yeah. In this case what else did I doing in their law? Are they carrying a lot of baggage like carrying a lot of stress lot. What's actually happening could be affecting? I'll give you a different example this saying to you, for example, it hasn't really made a difference that then you can start questioning them. Sometimes we forget something that's now better. Okay. Lucca I want you to imagine decide last g you said to me. Surroun-? And can I ask you today or have you been on? Nothing's changed now guy. What about your arm? When you what about you said we lost? She of Soham on our. It's better. No. Yeah. Lucky move on. Yes. So sometimes people move on and forget about of the health issues because somebody else's come that your in regards sleep, sometimes is not the quantity, the changes, its quality. I want you to imagine that sixty nine magical six to nine hours a night, some people mind any still get six hours. So they might have to be up at six I got a bit at midnight at wine changed icon change. It's not gonna it's not put me to sleep. And then I asked heady feeling to get up. I feel much better. Did you white during the night? Now, I didn't wake up engage up to get a snack or gather toward or anything. So they go to deep asleep. So sometimes the hours dine change, which is a quantity. It's the quality of another question. I asked people do you dream or do your membe dreams because everyone dreams so acitivity from wise daydream dos. I know get. That's okay. What everyone does? It's our ability to recall it and one of the best nutrients driven out the podcast land is what I'm basics allows us to recall dream. So when. We've automobile six deficient, redone or as reclaims. Oh is that? Right. So we can up the basics a little bit. Depending on what kind of dice is the needs might be twenty five to fifty milligrams. I'm happy -lize Dyson. You can't get a little bit high. But I've known me dined, and that allows near I transmitters. Yeah. Different Paphitis serotonin melatonin allows them to work effectively to put us into a deeper slate might and then the brain day frogs, which has dreams a shop his dreams and memories and things like that. That's the that's the Brian working out the leg, I blocks putting all different things in a different place while the puzzle removing the monkey mind and fixing to puzzle in that case. And that's quite an exciting thing because she stock getting deep asleep, waking up more refreshed so talking about Davis sleep is deepest late come from Siam someone who has gone to sleep. But as a baggage of stress that on taking a baby with me at night. Am I am I getting benefit from what's happening during the day with the ability to look at mood status and look at stress and all those things with ABS like lemon balm and balloon us is it better for me to go to sleep with that in more system versus. More on either that's a lie to question because that's a product. But I'm trying to talk about the concept here all having these products and sleeping versus taking that to sleep. With you lecture in the Diane you take Audrain clinical, you feel better straight up that all day long. So at nought on clubs malls have gone asleep. Inside something didn't work it didn't do this. But my watch says, I slept Deepa, da, da da revolver. Now is is that watch daughter and that I'm trying to ask you as an expert. Sorry, I'm not sure if you're sleeping, so it'll never actually asked you that. But I'm gonna assume you're sitting there, you must be good at my things like everyone does computer go, I can fix everything on a computer is it important to have no stress from Mahanta shot in being sleep short answer. Yes. Important thing to remember is going back to run is different and focusing on the twenty four hours so looking at the balloon S, for example, recover been dis-official, all the medicines, etc. Well, allowing the body to cope it. Okay. We're allowing the mind to cope better. So by using these mechanisms with the modified cortisol which will talk about lighter wherever. Modifying serotonin melatonin than one receptors. That words is hot musk urinary. Every lockout technical energy said that sit will Carleen pathways, which is out cognition memory concentration. Silk Elena, which it imagines luck. Spark plug affect allows a communication to get across Asia. When we think slow this Caroline's running slow as an example, can we help regulate that answer is? Yes, we certain hoped nutrients can we re balance that? Yes. So what we're doing with supplementing the body what it needs most. And can we do that everyday? Answer's yes. Some paper mache gone a product for four weeks just to get the sokoll up and running again, they improved. I feel better. And in some circumstances for weeks is enough that the good, but then I might have relapsed a stress something else later, and I can go on a lot of supplements as days when they've been formulated and designed a meant to be short, and long term zoo depends on the person, and we have to keep that in mind. And that's what body signs does for example, when when looking for the research, what can we do to improve the? Health of the person more beneficially. Yeah. Mental physical and emotional. And that's the combination of herbs nutrients that are new formulas, and how they work is something that we can take the beginning of the day like clinical, for example, that will get us through the day 'cause stress levels are so high. We're really stressed, but we have to works. We're thinking of family or whatever we need to do. But we need to get through that day. So when someone says ought didn't work on an awesome. Well, how was your day loaded? Unloaded questionnaire. How was your day? And they think he can watch him. You say the wheels tennis uncle more. Don, actually, I didn't feel a stressed. I had to work a mile that would have stirred me up in the past. Now it hasn't yet. I stopped giving you those answers. I had a Monday morning meeting with the boss that we didn't get along. And it was perfect because my stress levels were down. I will present better. And now worked out mine Zaidi gains leading is why by Boston. I didn't connect who's anxious saying something that wasn't there. Yes. It wasn't there. But my stress over took me and as fighting and flighting with sabertooth tiger at the exact same time. Tom. Channels bending me out, and that's an example of a patient. Okay. The Kevin saw me and they've been taking the herbs and nutrients. Awesome results, very happy. So if we can do that during the day, and then flick, the switch for the night and allowed the body to come relax recuperate rebuild all these technical sort of things that we think about by chemically and reduce them to is woods. It's simple. And you think we're building the buddy up to respondent away for stress during the day and to work with a stress we haven't not twenty four hour perch can. We've we've talked for an arrow say now, I think we'd better tennis off before we get to carry it away. Yes. I top three tips without me stopping you this time. Oh, better sleep happiness during the day. Let's it well putting it into three. So what I'm thinking about is number one as chocolate I love chocolate. So is number one. But making sure you always have time out via. So that could be locked my photography or something else. Let that something fi self everyday look at your nutrition have hot quoting nutrition nuts and seeds, fruits and vegetables, goo quality price. I mean, physical. Activity is a mind thing guy for walk. You then have to hit the gym too hard. You know, what I mean that if the do that it's good to do that. Yes. Going up your lean muscle mass excetera, that's another podcast. But I want you to think just walk things off. Okay. That's how I say and supplement Neetu just to get you to that point and beyond that point because we're not looking at just essential nutrition. We're looking at optimum nutrition and health Wilbert we want to thrive much as civilized north. That's a great way to end might. I can't think you're coming on board again today, again, Dr Brad McEwan, it's at B R A D M C E W E N. The man who published it. Chocolate is good for you. That's right. I always remind me for that might and thanks for everything. Thank you. Today's podcast was brought to you by partners in fit happy and healthy. I s n utrition warehouse. D Y just can't fireman's fat burners iron -ly Evelyn fi Mr. supplement will find a retailer online at body signs dot com that I you forward slash retailers.

Tom Email Dr Brad Mike Dr Brad McEwan Brian Brazil physical stress Ron Kuby partner fraud Germany cortisol dodge Rosemary melatonin Heimer researcher Ueda
S2  [BONUS] The Ballad of The Ballad | The Ballad of Billy Balls

The Ballad of Billy Balls / The RFK Tapes

42:58 min | 1 year ago

S2 [BONUS] The Ballad of The Ballad | The Ballad of Billy Balls

"<music> when it comes to something as important as your family's safety you deserve real protection from a._d. Real protection means the nation's number number one smart home security provider is standing by and there for you when you need real protection means having a safe and smart home with everything from from video doorbells surveillance cameras smart locks lights carbon monoxide and smoke detectors in system custom designed to fit your lifestyle and you can control your smart home with the a._d._t. App or the sound of your voice. That's real protection set up custom automations unique to your home to automatically. Do things like lock the doors and set the thermostat when you leave even close your garage door from virtually anywhere visit a._d._t. Not dot com slash podcast to learn more about how a._d._t. Can design and install a secure smart home just for you that's a._d._t. Dot com <hes> slash podcast. Hey doing good mom to the studio. Thank you i. I really like this studio. That has the effective like the womb. Now i come in here and i feel safe and hello zack here. I'm here sacher jacker editor title editors such underestimation of what's going on the show. All the credits on the show are fox. I'm like none of this actually equates to what everybody does yeah well. I'm glad we're doing this episode of the show so that we can actually talk about what the fuck happens so this episode is going to have a lot of spoilers basically all the spoilers for the whole season so if you haven't heard the series go back and binge it first so we were just listening to that south by south west talk so before we launched the show i own i went to south by south west to like play <music> a trailer but i told everybody i knew that we were premiering at south by southwest so i got eighty percent of the value of anything it south by south west is getting to say that you everybody. Thanks for coming just intimate enough to perfect. It's good because we got some some very encouraging conversations to share this was before the showed come out and so there were a lot of secrets than you couldn't talk about. I want to tell them so many things but we're still in the last phases of the investigation shirow still like i but one of the big secrets didn't have to do with the investigation at all right it had to do with <hes> a storytelling decision that we made when do we reveal is connection to the store and we've always for as long long as you and i were talking about. That was the thing that we had with. It's like investigated by the kid cool like it's like this personal the journey and that's what made it interesting and so then mark came in mark's merlin are other editor walmart came in at the eleventh hour with this harebrained idea that turned out to be genius that was let's not reveal it until after rebecca's told the entirety of her story the sort of the meeting so just a few weeks before the show launched. Should we went to south by south west to test out mark's new structure idea of holding back my relationship with rebecca yeah. There's a there's a major secret or it that we will talk about this secret. Then we played the trailer and the trailer doesn't reveal that i'm gonna hit and then i was like and by the way so. How did you find out about this story by the big secret. Is that rebecca's my mom. I think it works and i remember there was an audible gasp in the room and we were like awards today. Zack austin and i peel back the curtain a bit. We'll give you some juicy these secrets about how we made the show and will reflect on how we feel about it now from prime town. I'm not let right and this is a behind the scenes bonus episode of the ballot of billy ball <music>. Hello are okay okay all right. Tell me what you want now first of all what is real name. What's the poll we will name william hite. There might be a daughter and i think my mom. I know her name for some reason. She thinks that she lives in oregon. We're well the. I'm confident we can find me. What's missing all of this. We need the we have. If we get this police report for if we find out what happens and you can introduce some of that stuff yeah that'd be the end of this. This is our secretary coming together to. I o and rebecca either bad or good. We don't go by epilogue for the ballad of the ballot. The ballad of billy balls is presented by a._d._t. Real protection. You know what scares me more than true crime bad sleep. Luckily right now during mattress firm's labor day sale sale you can get a king bed for queen price or queen for twin price and save up to six hundred bucks on the bed of your dreams not to mention you can get a free adjustable base when he's fen just four hundred ninety nine dollars for customized comfort. That'll keep you sleeping safe and unsound all night long. Skip the nightmares and save big only at mattress firm all right. So how did this whole thing come together. How did it start. I was planning to write a book. Look it was called the ballad of billy balls and his baby girl that was the end it was gonna be a memoir nonfiction murder investigation book and then i was listening to all these true crime podcast i went through a break-up and i was like in the sweltering sun in joshua tree building furniture listening to every true true crime podcast hit my hands on. I'm sick motherfucker and everybody listening to this podcast. You're great. You're all great and then i heard word your name as i was listening that crime town zach stewart pontiac marks murli welcome to cry. I was like no fucking in way i'd met zach probably fifteen or so years ago through my friend jamie raisin shadow shadow jamie who was working on a movie that zach was editing and he wouldn't stop talking about this brilliant young editors acts acts act so when i found found out that zach gotten into podcasting i was just like i know i wanna make a podcast like this. Medium is beautiful and exciting and really cool cool and then we'll just ask you launch. You were starting to work on cramped ends. He's into and it was freezing. We were at a whole foods. Go honest aw i told him about the book and news that would make an epic podcast. Have you ever thought about making a podcast. I've thought about it but in oh yeah that's that's genius because he was a musician and because you were saying my mom had documented big parts of her life us all these record azam her accent so crazy and wild on way she talks a soap raising wild and i figured everybody around would also be audio gold as soon as you said i was like like yes to it'd be a podcast and i kept writing. Whatever but it really at that point i was like oh that's what this is supposed to be and then i went off and tried to make it on my own yeah which was a great lesson in people saying no to things and you being like no <music>. I'm sure everybody i talked to from these other networks and stuff. Where like we'll have. You found the killer. Do you know how it ends and i was like no. You don't understand it's not it's just it's an amorphous orifice. It's a study in humanity and nobody wants to hear that. They're like who's the good guy. Who's the bag you know. It's it's about love but i i couldn't articulate it but i knew you got it. We came up with it together and then the heavens parted and i came in here and you guys were like so this is awesome. Go have launched with him. I was like okay who the fuck you guys are basically yeah we are slammed and austin's the man and we want him to be like the lead on this. Yeah i mean from my perspective. It was zack. Spend mike all right. So what do you think about this. There's and he gave me your pitch deck. What was the deal that he. How did he explain. It was his this elevator pitch of the balance. I remember that clearly but it was something like all right so there's this murder mystery men takes place in the east village in the early eighties and i was like ooh okay all right keep going. He was a musician all right and then you have to work with iot right and i was like no a- and so yeah that that was it. I was excited about it. I was excited about the prospect of it. We had no idea what it was going to fee man of <hes> <hes> and so that was that was honestly a little exciting <hes> so it was a thing where it was go have lunch with. I o and see how you get get along. See if you'll be able to work together and then we sat down and had lunch and you lovely and you told me about california and all this stuff and i was like all right great right. Let's do it. Was it thumbs up like in the in the in the luxury guys like we're doing this for me. I was like i said no questions about him. I think our only question at that point is whether or not somebody was going to give us the money to make it right until we got cadence <hes> really on board and they came in and they they were great the first trip when i came to new york in december i came here for a week before we had a green light. I bought the ticket yeah that week. We just sat down. I remember you like asking me what you hope to get from this project and it was still all it was like doc. Meat is still very like unseasoned than uncommissioned play. We should play some of that because it's like so interesting to hear like the wide that i'd sort of yeah oh we things so in terms of this project. What exactly exactly do you want to get from. This is my first recorded. Sit down with austin. We need to piece together. A picture of who billy was a real picture of billy was versus my mom's interpretation and then we need to somehow which is going to be the hardest part crack crack the n._y._p._d. Case files and get them to possibly incriminate themselves in a murder and it might just be that it might be right there on a piece of paper arresting officer so and so and this is the guy that shot him. That's the guy i want to get to. I wanna find who the dude is. Who is the guy in the campway strangely prescient or whatever yeah yeah sir certain things that you're saying absolutely happen. I want to sit down with him and i wanna ask him. Do you remember this man. Do you remember this day what happened. Why did you shoot this guy. Why did you go back to the hospital. Why did he die and then certain things are just like not not even even in the you know and maybe he's so old. He'll be like we needed to get rid of him. You know maybe the guy's dead i don't know but if i could find his his killer and have a real conversation with him. It might set my mom freeze really what i would hope. It's really it's just the fucking interesting thing about this process. This show is such a i people have expressed surprise at the fact that we were making taking it as we put it out and i think that that doesn't even begin to touch on the like it was real. Live growth and real live have emotion and things changing in my family week to week. This is impossible. Most people who imagine episodes came out at six am on thursday mornings and at one a._m. Three a._m. Four a._m. On every fucking wednesday night austin is here in the studio most likely with kenny probably kazak making the ship before it comes out in like a matter of hours and sandbar bear engineer over the course of the season. You kind of go from being like oh my god. We only have four days to to do this like holy shit too like by the n._f._c. like we have four days like we're fine. We got okay. Let's try this. We've we are four days. Yeah like there was not pre done. It was not preordained at all. A lot of things happened last minute or by stroke of luck everything from ron kuby coming in to save the day to that faint imprint of the undercover cops name on the police report and even basic production and choices liquid our theme song would be on and also the theme song. Oh we went through so maybe i was like really wanting thing to to use billy's music a whole thing yeah so we had kenny put <hes> take some ability songs. We asked kenny cusak our resident composer and sound engineer to try turning a few of billy's tracks into potential theme songs for the show. Here's one early sketch should play some of that and you'll hear just how fucking they are and i take total and i was the one pushing it so that's not not kenny kenny was ashley following the horrible the action that i was going to try to try we swing hard but when it's not working pretty much everybody gets on board. Okay clout working yeah. Let's try something else and like thought of light asylum at some u._n. Really saved the day. That's fucking song s you. You had a relationship with shannon. I've known shannon teenager. I'm talking about shannon funchess the lead singer of light asylum. I i love shannon's. She used to perform at the barry poetry club with my mom. I think i just newer from the village from like when i literally i was a kid and now people people are like rediscovering light asylum or first time discovering and like all my god are they good ban to play some of their other music. Yes what is this is one of my favorite latest album songs. It's called p._c. It laying so good but what people don't know is that the decision to use light asylum happens probably before we launched the show why you don't hear light eight asylum in our trailer. It's coming up. We get into our favorite moments from making the show. That's after this break the ballad of billy balls presented by a._d._t. Real protection hiring used to be hard but now there's one place as you can go. Were hiring is simple fast and smart a place where growing businesses connect to qualified candidates and that place is ziprecruiter dot com flash billy balls with their powerful matching technology ziprecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invites them to apply to your job. Ziprecruiter is so effective that four out of five employers who post on ziprecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day and right now you can try ziprecruiter for free at ziprecruiter dot com slash billy balls. That's that's ziprecruiter dot com slash b. i. l. l. y. B. a. l. l. s. ziprecruiter dot com slash billy balls ziprecruiter recruiter the smartest way to hire the ballot of billy balls is brought to you by third love thirdlove uses data points generated by millions of women who have taken their fit finder is to design bras with breast size and shape in mind for a perfect fit and premium liam field. It's hands down the most comfortable bra you'll own. Fit stylus are available every day to help the text chat or phone and returns and exchanges ranges are free and easy. They have a one hundred percent fit guarantee. Every customer has sixty days to wear it and put it to the test and if you don't love it return it and third love will wash it and donate it to a woman in need third. Love knows there's a perfect bra for everyone right now. They're offering fifteen percent off your first order. Go to third love dot com slash crime town to find your perfect fitting bra and get fifteen percent off your first purchase. That's third love dot com slash crime town for fifteen percent off today. Okay so we're back in the studio with me austin and our editors zach like what what are some of your favorite parts of the show or favorite parts of making the show the fact that we got the answers like that is just so fucking. I'm so proud of that like that so insane. We found the guy <hes> and the cowboy hat. We got the police report. We like amanda talk to us. You know like we got. We found his body all the things that i i wanted to solve. We solved which is crazy yeah. Yeah i mean i already cried about this in the credits but my relationship with austin i'm not looking. I can't him because i can't but my relationship with austin is like a gift that will never you know that's something for life have been through it yeah yeah and i think the there's just it's so personal and my mom's such a character and there's a you know i freaked out a couple times and had like approach like irrational panic about weird shit and just stick in the mud about the wrong things because it was just having an emotional response out crazy this whole process was and like there's austin just being like okay. I'm gonna take a walk and talk to you and like give you space to air your feelings and stay on the fucking phone with you for three <music> hours while you figure out what the fuck wrong with you and that is a when you're dealing with something as emotion and trauma connected as this this whole thing was was essential to making it possible so i got austin out of this. What about you. What are some of your favorite things. I love the hard island episode. The bird bird i was reserved along could leave me alone for just a few minutes. Maybe doc one lives in birds fly with all my life. When i was drawn lot. My brother had birds all our most harmless little further when birds the aviary the birds okay. We have to tell them that. The birds was austin's of the whole world to know they know they know. Most of it is is austin's genius move on whoa compliments. Just everyone knows that's true. I love the way you handle that interview with the guy in the cowboy hat who wasn't actually wearing a cowboy hat but <hes> but i love the way that that works it was really a special thing and wonder if you're comfortable telling me a little bit about like what you it felt like was that a rare occurrence parents have actually ended up in a shoot out of any time and i was not happy with it at all yeah. I mean if you can't be happy involved in something like that so it's bothered you. Enter collected didn't want that to happen yeah. I can't imagine anyone being happy about it. Obviously around shooting people cop so like forty the is and he was the only one he's the only one it oh my god like the fact that you have. You're able to have a connection with that person. I think made the show and a lot of ways because i think if that goes a different way it's like not as and it would have totally been in reasonable for it to go a different way because of everything that everybody who listen to the show totally understands <hes> but i just love that thank you very much all right. Take care. I love the ending. I love like i think of that like tarintino like moment of seeing them like go off into the sunset and i love that. Which was your gene yeah. We should give some credit here. This was not i mean so it was that but in the studio with your mom during that last sit down it all happened in the way that you heard in that episode you revealed to your mom whatever she wanted to know. It was very tense. Wanna know anything about the cop or any of that stuff. I'd like to see him fry and be six feet on there. You're right. That's that's it. I mean side note. I'm sitting here in the studio watching this happen when she asked about his name what's his name is sure you wanna know that yeah. I wanna know why. Why do you think i could see you processing. It and i'm like gripping. Don't tell don't tell her. Don't tell her mom. Let's i got to think about whether or not it's <music> smart kid to tell you that that interview did happen the way that it happened in the last episode but zach as is your role in this show to kind of supervise the the bigger picture structural things you had an idea to bring it back and and with the scene with billy there's a story about you guys going to boston right just like a beautiful thing thing literally them driving into the well so the snow says no said i imagine her draped across the bench seat her bleached blond head resting on billy's thigh as he skids through the snow a cigarette dangling from his mouth. She reaches up and caresses the collar bones of the man. She will love forever as they sing together. They're freezing air flies up from the highway below but they're unfazed warmed by love <hes> we knew when my mom sat down and she sang that fucking song awesome and i looked at each other and we knew even she knew and she said yeah yeah yeah the best for your show more positive courses like but i think that's a great way to end the whole show sure but that was not originally what we thought the ending was gonna be no as we were structuring the show as we were reporting reporting everything we were. We were certainly was going to end on hart island with your mom in front of the grave. That's really what we thought yeah but until you took that trip goodall rebecca never fails to surprise you. We had always imagined you had always imagined catharsis for your for your mom which wasn't so then we're kozel okay well and then there needs to be a final sit down but the final sit down wasn't going to be in the studio. Originally it'd be at her house which would have been a totally different thing and then then circumstances shift again and now it's in the studio and now okay. We'll rolling with that okay so it's like we're like it's a lie very live ball and all of the decisions that we're making our kind of like reacting things being like president and trying to like mold the way we think should be going. It's fucking fascinating process. I just wanna say like none of the work that i've ever done has touched people the way this has has like your openness and your like the personal nature of this story like profoundly impacted. The people pull that listened all these voicemails all these emails. All these comments like really passionate just like wow you know people crime town but it's not the same thing is not deep is not as deep yeah to be a part of this thing that was connecting on that level is really special. Yeah it feels really really really amazing to hear and see and read all these messages from people saying that it's like impacted them emotionally change them push them made them think about things you know affected me as a mother and the daughter and the phrase the past matters for your journey but the ultimate goal is radically authentic presence since with another person that just resonated with me with the past with my father and also wondering what it is that i'm doing my own children yeah so i just to park. It was amazing you looking touching talking while doing man volleying and his car thank thank you. I actually lost someone <hes> as well who is my life and i realized that i listen to there's talk that i will love him forever so anyway. I wanted to thank you. Also thank you for being so vulnerable and thank yeah. I agree with <hes> that doctor that vulnerability is a superpower. I feel stronger longer than i was. When i went into this. I feel that vulnerability has cost me anything like it was painful to make it but like i find i think you would be more painful to make something that wasn't vulnerable. If nothing else from this story i hope that people <hes> take that ah that would be incredible vulnerability and honesty and artem in the world yeah ooh. What's your life like now. I'll post show my life. Now involves a lot of desert and i <hes> have been remodeling a house and like building furniture in it and i think that's what i created escape my brain mostly <hes> ah drive around in my nineteen ninety ford ranger pickup truck that has no a._c. Mccullough it's white and it's currently between one hundred four and one hundred and thirteen degrees daily eh in joshua tree but it's dry heat so it's manageable and i take my little dogs and put them in my truck and i love my truck up with tools rules and then i go and i put things together and build things and like listen to weird murder pa. I'm basically right back where i started and <hes> i oh. How is your mom doing house. Rebecca great question my mom ah she's okay. That's the honest answer is she's okay you know. She doesn't have the context next of what we were making <hes> she did not wanna listen to it because it's not entertainment for her. It's her greatest trauma and so. I think there was a lot of kind of feeling like her. Most personal information was being put out in the world without her control and shoots the kind of flailing around in the dark a little bit there was a moment though during the show so my mom has a version of my childhood that's that's different than mine where she thinks it was you know roses and peaches and glorious because she doesn't remember a lot of what happened and so my dad came in for his episode and he in that interview that was the first time he's ever owned the role of drugs in his judgment in my childhood so that really changed my relationship with my father and so she went up till lunch at his house in the bronx and he had a conversation reception with her and she called me afterwards sobbing and said basically apologized for fucking up my childhood for the the first time in my whole life and i was totally didn't know what to do extending in construction site and joshua tree just kind of like it's okay. It's okay. It's okay i love you. I love you buy an that is a moment that i've literally been waiting for my whole life and only happened because of this process but then boom she went right back into you know denial and the and the fear and irrational kind of outbursts so i think in the end she is better for the the fact that i've grown through this process but if she could choose out tissue probably would not have done this although i don't know you know it's the the heart island thing. We don't know how that affected her yet. It's gonna take time for that to settle in so i don't know how she's doing being just like the show it's complicated and that's what makes a beautiful but also difficult ooh wait so we never got to my favorite parts of the show. One of my favorite parts of this was a lot of i o your and my venturing out into the city and it's being knuckleheads and they are. I reporting trip. We went up to the upper east side to talk to this woman that we're calling natasha eighty six and after that interview we went and got a sandwich hotton christie's. That's our best bet on their black and white cookies really good and we were standing in line and you're like <hes> ruth bader. Later ginsburg is over. There refitted ginsberg's here but she was so tiny. She looks like ruth bader ginsburg. No that was ruth bader ginsburg no fucking way. I don't know i think i was fucking with. You and i think it worked worked. No this was her. I have the instagram story posted an instagram story of this a little old lady and wrote rby question mark. I pulled the story backup in the studio kelly. Is that her i. I don't know anyway austin counters and pulls up a real photo of r._p._g. Online this is her in the hair. Colours glasses are exactly the same really looks like it's hard. That's why it looks like her. Posture does seem like really feeling that i feel like a lot of people who are eighty six probably might have that posture. This mystery must be solved. Can you see her rings. Anywhere is their picture of her hands anywhere because this person has on his hands i'm curious. Actually there's austin pulls up another picture of r._p._g. That shows her hands so this is fucking r._p._g. Look at the rings saying you see it. Oh yeah oh my god it was it's fucking r._p._g. And we didn't fucking talk to her. Oh i stay little time. I narrated her whole eating experience to the microphone into the microphone. I was thrilled. Ah that's better ginsburg just finished her. She's cleaning up her trey. She's cleaning the crumbs off her tray. She such a same rb to put on bright red lipstick heroin like the boss. Somebody's coming to meet arbitrary an older man. We solved another mystery. Good boy g. like soup groundbreaking investigative journalism. I just thought it was all lady who looks like her on me and i was always trying to think of my head of a moment when we could get that in the show yeah here it is <music>. I wanna thank everybody who's just listen to this. Show for all of your feedback all of your voicemails everything you've written me online. The response has been tremendous and it gives us all so much winner sales awesome thank you. I'm gonna miss you. They cram town zach stewart ponte and marked smart lane. The ballad of billy balls is hosted by me. I o till it right and made in partnership with cadence thirteen now. You have to find me on the internet. I'm i o loves you on everything. If you want to know more about my story you can pick up my memoir darling days. We still have that voicemail line. Set up for you to call us. I'm going to keep checking it so please call the number is five seven. Oh three nine two nine nine six six zero truly. It's one of the greatest joys of my life to hear how the show has effected you guys and your dad jokes. This episode was produced by me and kevin shepherd our senior. Producer is the king austin mitchell editing kazaks stewart pontiac and marks merlin. This episode was mixed by sam barth music by kennedy cusak. Now you know what that means our title track his dark allies by light asylum. Thank you shannon and bruno so so so much you made this show. Thanks thanks that in yellow araya rachel right emily wiediman who by the way are all of our girlfriends wives green card pictures allesandro santoro bill clegg back ben davis oren rosenbaum and the team hayden's thirteen and of course my mom without whom none of this would be possible took hello yeah <music> <music> uh-huh <hes> uh uh-huh mm-hmm <music> uh-huh.

billy balls Zack austin murder ruth bader rebecca shannon funchess zach austin mark editor zach stewart pontiac kenny kenny new york california walmart ron kuby zach stewart ponte austin mitchell william hite
S2  [BONUS] I'll Call You Back | The Ballad of Billy Balls

The Ballad of Billy Balls / The RFK Tapes

37:18 min | 1 year ago

S2 [BONUS] I'll Call You Back | The Ballad of Billy Balls

"<music> when it comes to something is important as your family's safety. You deserve real protection from A._D._D.. Real protection means the nation's number one smart home security provider is standing by and there for you when you need them yeah real protection means having a safe and smart home with everything from video doorbells surveillance cameras smart locks lights carbon monoxide and smoke detectors in a system custom designed to fit your lifestyle and you can control your smart home with the A._D._T.. APP or the sound of your voice that's real protection setup custom automations unique to your home to automatically do things like lock the doors and set the Thermostat when you leave leave even close your garage door from virtually anywhere visit A._D._t.. Dot Com slash podcast to learn more about how A._D._T.. Can Design and install a secure smart home just for you that's A._D._T.. Dot Com <hes> slash podcast so we're in the studio today and we thought it would be fun to call some of the people back who've called US and left US great voicemails and I've got somebody here with me. A very special guest is name is sweet. Kevin Sweet. Kevin is Kevin Shepherd our associate producer. He's The guy who response to your tweets or instagram messages. He's also in charge of the voicemails. You leave us. We call bananas or do you want to call the first message. He's pulled is one you heard in the last bonus episode from someone. We've come to call parking lot. Okay what the fuck this is such a good podcast that I had to stop driving. I'm on episode six. I in a grocery store parking lot like it just sitting here listening because I'm so enthralled podcast dope. Let's call there. Hello Hey this is I o from the ballot billy balls. Okay listen this. This is so crazy okay. What's up parking lot? Where is this the grocery store parking lot that I now imagine you to pay rent in? I'm in a public grocery store parking working on what town with city what stage show tree oh like outerspace no welby to you boone North Carolina where Appalachian State University is wow. I'm from the city but here's the thing I left home when I was like fifteen and a half and I worked kitchens I come from four generations of bakers. <hes> you know I spent a lot of my youth. Being you know just on the streets living ving that kind of life so that was like the biggest thing with your podcast is I was like as as your mom not just Kinda bust in but I just want to get it out as your mom was like discussing this streak and she was saying the word that was it's like Oh is voluptuous. It is too sweaty. That's the beauty like everyone else is a voyeur to what she's saying but for those of us that have lived in those moments. It's like reminiscent today. I talked with some of you about the connection. You felt to the show and later you'll hear from some other characters. You've gotten to know well from crime town. I'm I o till it right and this is another special bonus episode of the ballot of Billy Ball. Hey Cheetahs Iol. How are you are you doing all? I'm GonNa Throw along the South Park Ron. I do have one more question. Though how do you think we should refer to you because you're not our lawyer. Law Out log hired gun till boss slender yeah pretty much anything works Great Clo yes. Hey this is I o Rebecca Rights Kid wow. I can't believe you called UH epilogue to I'll call you back. The ballot of billy balls is presented by A._D._T.. Real Protection Protection organized crime and Mafia conspiracies filled the nineteen eighties but you know what was truly criminal the bed prices. A Queen Mattress was just one hundred sixty nine dollars a total steal deal but guess what right now during mattress firm's flashback sale this special nineteen eighties price is back plus with throwback deals on all the mattresses you can save up to four hundred dollars on a new bed without planning the bank heist for bed deal so good. It shouldn't be legal shopped at mattress firm today my phone voice ready soon. We've got three new voicemail since we started this. Oh Wow do you want to what about that Guy Dom don yeah. I like this voicemail and I came at a lot yeah. That's we actually featured that. It was featured in the credits of chapter four to be exact. Hey this is dom from Los Angeles. I just want to say this podcasts making me feel all kinds of stuff specifically on my thing Gregory Capri and amazing soul who are taking too young and I think billy gregory somewhere especially. Can we call them in. Call Him Yeah. Hey Hey tom this is <hes> I owe the host of the ballot of billy balls. Oh what's up hey. I heard that I got features. That was freaking crazy yeah you did. We really liked your voicemail. Thank you for calling in and sharing that with us. I want to call you yeah. I can talk to you a little bit more about Gregory Yeah. Let's do it <hes> I'm actually walking with my mom to <hes> high mine other. We're both really connected to our MOMS <hes>. She's going through crazy times right now to she's bike got like stage. Four cancer and it's just kind of crazy like life is wild so I'm really sorry that teller I said hello and I also have you WanNa hang out with her and don't WanNa talk us about this totally don't after I don't know if you're just going lock together so this is perfect timing well. Why who was Gregory to you so greg was a friend? We're both born like it's fairly close to one another in small towns in Oregon and so we have some kind of weird spirit we used to have a bunch of concerts and stuff at our house in the basement you know stuff like that and in just come through and supply party you know I know you just had like a fire under him like he. You know he he go up to Alaska and fish and like do a super dangerous his job to get money and then we'll just do whatever else he wanted but the rest of those months like he was just a wild man but you know using our them and talk to him and he was just like a lover. You know just kind of reminded me like how billy with everyone talks about. How charismatic Hewas Tounsi was like Greg what ended up happening him? He got busted on Saint Patrick's Day in car with like twenty four vials of the acid. There's something crazy we just started address because like he got arrested and I didn't know what was going on with them and then I knew he got out. I think that he just got like super. Ketamine and I think he was just using one night with somebody and just oh deed and it was just like terrible. You know like it was a huge shock. Ought to all of us. Even the people knew them like thought that he was able to understand it limits not regard but I mean he was there Saadah Cannon so that was dragging. I mean it really hit hit me though because like you and now like my desire to get fucked up and be crazy Kinda side with Gregg you know I was just like what's the point. If Greg's not around you know. Do you think there's an afterlife dumb anything Greg and Billiere hanging out somewhere ripping the world apart I think they're both writing like dragging like brown style somewhere her wrecking zombies playing guitar by strapped to that monster truck and Mad Max dislike craziest seen you've ever seen who else is there with them mm-hmm Shit. I'm sure Dan Joplin's there. Maybe George Herbert Walker Bush but hopefully it's a good ratio party not too many you thank you. I really appreciate it. I hate behind my mom's names Leslie Chris Christie Hi Leslie She's also wild woman and she had some wild time to practice their best wishes to Leslie Chris for good healing and health. Thanks all right. I'll talk to you now fight on Iraq unbelievable well that was beautiful. Thanks again dumb. What's next week Kevin? Let me go to this one right here. Your podcast has gotten old thinking about the disappearance. My mom disappeared in two thousand sixteen <hes> <hes> it really strange thing <hes> yeah I trying to figure out how to yeah. I don't know just not sure how to talk about it. So my name is Brian Thank you I was out to lunch when that call came in and I kinda just listen to them as they come and I stopped and cried for a couple of minutes the you can't even get the yards out. Let's call them hello. Hey Brian this. I O from the ballot of billy balls calls yes. How are you <hes>? I'm doing okay. Is it okay that I'm calling you back. Yes it's okay that you're calling me back. I thought they had my shit together and just saying that on that voice mail was really hard. I'm sorry it was really a lot harder nice. I mean it makes perfect sense to all of us yeah. How well do you WanNa tell me what happened? Well my family all went up to <hes> <hes> Lake Alpine camping trip and <hes> my mom wouldn't go for walk doc down to Lake so my dad marketeering are halfway down and then you know walked back to the campsite and then never heard from hurricane <music> they did have some art the lake all day sound was logs and whatnot they didn't find scuttled clothing or object to belong to her and they scan the whole area. No yeah like miles and miles. How long did the search gone at one on for about two weeks the extended as much resources as they could and they what's the point where they couldn't expend any more resources at the time it was the largest search and rescue in California state has three wow really they found absolutely nothing? She just disappeared vanished. Do you mind if I ask. Did your mom have any <hes> history of any kind of mental illness or anything going on well <hes> she was hiding things what we figured out is she had been hiding a lot of beginning stages of either dementia or <hes> <hes>. What is it on Alzheimer's Alzheimer's yeah? She didn't want to net that stuff. You don't WanNa bet that you're getting older. You know it's Kinda hard so do you have a theory Brian of what happened. I think that probably probably her whatever she was going through whether it be dementia or whenever you know was way worse yeah and she was in a place that she didn't really recognize so my is someone else give her a ride yeah and she got confused and she may have gotten a car with someone that had not necessarily good intentions yeah yeah. What was her name? Rustling Saxon Learn Roslyn Saxon Meyer. How have you made peace with this Brian or have you? I went through therapy for for over two years before that I had to friends <hes> get basically we murder. I was being evicted from my home. I had a cancer scare that turned out to not be cancer. Thankfully <hes> thanks to and then I had this and I went into go see my doctor and I was telling her. She asked me how was doing and I told her everything she went. Do you use therapist like yeah. That could be a good thing. Yeah I think so you listen to some people tell their stories about their parent dying. They're preparing for their parents die. I get to prepare for my parents guy. My parent vanished. I've always wondered how really properly tell the story. It's hard to speak it into that voicemail. <hes> it was very hard to find those words at that point in time and I thank you for listening if if I could say anything to you after hearing your story and speaking you a little bit. It's like if me opening up impacted you remember that as you go through the world and the power of you opening up because that will open things up for other people able to and your story is really powerful and will be helpful to someone else so keep finding your words man. Thank you hi Brian. Thank you so much for talking to us and sharing your story have a beautiful day. You have a wonderful day coming up. We check in with some old friends friends. That's after the break. The ballot of billy balls is presented by A._D._T.. Real protection with the winter blues coming to an end. It's finally time to get back into a routine that empowers you to feel your healthiest care of is a monthly subscription vitamin service that delivers completely personalized vitamin supplement packs right to your door and care of makes it easy to find out what you specifically need to be. Your healthiest care of has a fun online quiz that. Takes five minutes where they ask you about your diet health goals and lifestyle choices in order to find out your personal scientifically-backed vitamin supplement recommendations. I took the quiz and it is actually pretty fun. Although one of the questions was do you look at a computer screen for more than three hours per day which made me laugh and feel sad at the same time also another cool thing about care of a portion of every sale goes toward the good plus foundation which provides expectant mothers others in need with valuable prenatal vitamins for fifty percent off your first month personalized care of vitamins go to take care of dot com and enter crime town fifty. That's fifty percent off your first month when you go to take care of dot com and enter crime town fifty Robin Hood is an investing APP that lets you buy and sell stocks E._T._F.'s options in Cryptos all commission free while other brokerages charged up to ten dollars for every trade robinhood doesn't charge any commission fees so you can trade stocks and keep all of your prophets plus. There's no account minimum deposit needed to get started so you can start investing at any level. The simple intuitive would have designed and Robin Hood Makes Investing Easy for newcomers experts alike view easy to understand charts and market data and place a trade in just four taps on your smartphone. You can also view stock collections such as one hundred most popular with Robin Hood. You can learn how to invest in the market as you build your portfolio discover new stocks track your favorite companies and get custom notifications for price movements so you never missed the right moment to invest Robin Hood is giving listeners of crime town presents a free stock like Apple Ford for Sprint to help you build your portfolio sign up at Crime Town Dot Robin Hood Dot Com. This is Austin Austin Hussin Balata Billy Boston. This is someone we called Natasha in the show. How are you doing you? You met her in Chapter Four. I'm just curious how you're feeling after listening to the season I think you guys did in the marvelous job. I loved every second of accepted still at emotionally training a very upsetting story rain. I feel very sorry for Rebecca. Did it change what you think happened to billy or why you think he was shot well. After listening to Ron at really was turning point for me because I actually do believe for on very serious January Ryan the undercover cop. I really don't think he was lying so I think all that's true and he was a drug dealer any definitely Delton heroin because you know where to get it and the trigger happy stuff that happens with a lot of testosterone with guns involved and share. I'm I'm you know it's it's really too bad. I really do think ron remorseful. They actually shot and killed him <music>. How did you feel about being involved in this? I wanted to make a contribution. <hes> I love the show. I think you did fabulous job. I think should make a good movie. I hope you put me in it to it. I will reveal who I really am in that case and the music that came out of that place. I wish you would use a little piece in my music from that time. Okay all right. I'll throw consider that thrown a piece of music right here but can you give me the lean and lanky. It just didn't get well good luck with everything and thank you for talking with me and I hope you stay in touch yeah. Yes definitely you can tell me <music> who might podcast so. Are You GonNa do movie <music>. Hello Hey Cheetah. Hey this is Austin Mrs Cheetah Chrome phillies close friend and fellow musician. Have you had a chance to listen to the show. The power of it wasn't all I don't know. Do you WanNa know what we found. What did you find okay so we found the police report and the police report said it had the story from the undercover Costin tells Cheetah about the police report and that we talked with the undercover cop he said that billy pulled a gun on him while he was trying to buy heroin from him and cockpit and that's why he shot billy? I don't buy it would have never pull a fucking gone my first reaction to that yeah so street curl capsules shit nobility. Oh by one second billy never sold heroin to any of us. He's old pills. You know value in fucking sentinels shit like that speed. How by that all lost? He was insulting though there is a chance. I'm sorry to tell you historian. It sounds at it's probably upsetting man smoke saying shit use a good friend yeah. How people do you find it? Midnight on Roller Skates <music> Snow showed little snide blue job so then a blue jumpsuit panels rollerskates. Did he roller skate everywhere. We've heard a couple of times. Yes anybody else roller skate eight eight. He will great songs. Maybe UH yeah. I'm sorry that's okay. Man is close. You're getting the fucking top of the phones fires you can yeah that's how we thanks for of me. Yeah yeah all right hello. How are you man Kirby and of course we had to talk with the law slinger Ron Kuby? Did you listen to the final episode yes of course I did deeply sad deeply moving realizing that in the guys of a true crime story it was really a very much a love story between <hes> mom and her son Yeah and you know I it illustrated something that we don't need much illustration of these days which is the power of false narratives to affect people's lives and behaviors and are persistent refusal refusal and unwillingness to examine actual facts that could contradict that narrative or add all way or of nuance to that narrative and you know it made me feel really bad ad for Rebecca who kind of is now and has kind of always been a child who needed to take care of <hes> and I think different people played that that role in our lives and I think I ended up signs that role and to be self referential to you know you guys called. It was just like okay do an interview. You WanNa see splashes this aspect of. Policing or whatever and then you know the level of debts and discussion and your charm and Io's charm and everything stood two of you were really serious about this project and we're really seriously trying to get the documents that would tell version of the story that it had not been told and you went about it and all the wrong with they did not your fall. You're you're lay people yeah hours and you talk to all the wrong people who gave all the wrong answers and this is one of those things like I know if I spent two hours on this I can do apps and made a real difference in how the story got told in what the story really was and I'm just I'm very happy I did that. Is there any advice for somebody who is wanting to do kind of foil requests like we did if they don't have a lawyer involved. The answer is find a lawyer. Don't call me what they should like email over call you and you just okay. That's true. Maybe we can make public what you put in for us sure we're going to do just that. We'll put Ron's full foil requests on our social media pages. That's so oh nice of you can't thank you enough and you can try to figure out a way of thank you. Thanks <music>. I just realized I should also I have it on do not disturb and go straight to voicemail back in the studio with sweet heaven. This is a funny one. It's funny but then it gets real. Oh we've got one. I'm last person to call back. You Got K.. Balls here Aka Rouse Tillman Aka Cooking Kimball Rock and Roll Business Probably Dr Rock and roll and your podcast his field many many miles of joy. I laughed. I cried quite you know sucking reality. Keep us you can get work party home. That message was awesome but then we got another message once again. K Miles and I believe is podcasting. May Me going to change my life. I get home. I'M GONNA quit. Rock and roll business is spent some time with my daughter before he is grownup. Doll the Holy Shit Call K. balls right now calling cables Hayes K. balls. Hey balls this. I am the host of the ballot and billy. Wow I have early enjoyed your program. Thanks man thank you where are you. I'm in Spartanburg South Carolina cool. I drive to the Martha Kanter Band and one of the guys call me K. ball's pointing kimball too. That's another one your nicknames kicking Kimball Route Kiln and I've got a whole Elliot's so you'd never use your real name out on the road uh-huh so Ralph Tillman's real name either Kimball High Kimball. It's a pleasure to make your acquaintance. We all really let Your Voice House when I just sitting there listening hit a baby in it was may I say this Gig good but hey I have a question for you. Go for it your second in voicemail. You said I'm GonNa go home and quit the rock and roll business and spend some time with my daughter. What's that all about well? I've been on the road all these years. When you're gone two hundred days a year you're gone and you know you miss them? Things so hope like the first formative years seven years of her life I was there and then her mother and I split up and then I just been on the road ever since my daughter's a senior and so I said fuck it and game straight home and and I'm at home no shit no shit. I'm not gonNA presume that that's because you listen to our podcast well. No you SORTA because you know <hes> as a driver. You know I'm up all night. You know <hes> medicated you not goes and all that yet so I just got really emotional. Listening to y'all's thing ain't got damn you found Amanda and when you found Amanda you know you just think students at the life that she had to live. You know it's crazy and you know life's too fucking short work to just let it you fly by you know yeah so and I got a farm and all the things that you wanna live except happiness that that little thing I think it did influence me. Just say fuck it and I did. That's amazing K. balls. What's your what's your daughter like she? She is a sack of hell. She just the best kid she's honest. I don't know how that's possible well. What are you going to do with their now that your home? I'm GonNa just hang out with her. <hes> take my daughter the beach for Grad Week and we're going to do dinner tonight and hopefully you can get here tomorrow. Help me with this garden. We got stuff to do in seventeen year. Old Girls Are you're in for it man Kimmel. It's been a real pleasure speaking to you. Thank you for picking up and and thank you for calling us in the first place and I'm really proud of you man. I'm allowed to be tell you what keep up the good work kids all right. Take care during Moonshot then you some great yeah all right done. Three shake means so much Jimmy how cables here I've been at the fucking be with a bunch of senior in your girls that have graduated. Oh God gives party anymore. Cave Ball cable wherever you are party on crime town is Zack Stewart Pontiac on T._A.. And Marks Merlin the ballot of billy balls hosted by me iota it right and made in partnership with cadence thirteen. You can find me on the Internet I o loves you on everything I love it. When you say hello and if you want to know more about my story you can pick up my memoir darling days audible too? If you'd like to leave us your voicemail please. Do you never know we'll be done. Give us a call five seven. Oh three nine two nine six six zero. This episode was produced by Me Kevin Shepherd and Ryan's Waker our senior producer is Austin Mitchell editing by Zach Stewart Pontiac and marks Merlin. This episode was mixed by Sam Bear music by Kenny Cusak back. Our title track is dark allies by light asylum special things to David Williams Melrose music and palm springs for all your help the season thanks to Daniela Araya Rachel Rate Emily Wiediman men Green Card Pictures Alexandra Santoro Bill Clegg's Kassiyev Chefs Ski Ben Davis Orrin Rosenbaum and the team cadence thirteen and of course as always my mom without whom none of this would.

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Episode 61: Performing arts, performing experiments

EurekaNerd!

32:42 min | 1 year ago

Episode 61: Performing arts, performing experiments

"This is a stimulus network. Podcast hello welcome to your reconnoitered. I am well great seven into Yuba. And I'm Leah. Once voted best actress of the year by a panel of my is. Hello we are back. It is good to be back. We have been away for a little while everything should be working now in sound less on the fire and then there was a whole Christmas thing. You know how these things pilot of hand but we are here. The science is ready and raring to go. Except we're not really talking about science. Well we're not talking just about science this episode. We're looking at science an art together. The intermingling of the disciplines. We're talking about mostly science. That's about our people have done science about people doing all somewhere out there. I'm sure people are doing art about people. Doing Science doesn't work quite so well as a podcast medium won't have to talk about those some other time. I I as a tea boost this press release from October. Twenty seventeen really spoke to me and it says in the headline. I don't take my to to work at Microsoft. Ibm mazed if anyone did. Take it to work at Microsoft. It's not a very portable thing is Susa- phones on the other hand designed for marching with so like. Maybe there's some wiggle room there but this paper from La University is all about the untapped. Creativity in the workforce in how to maybe make the most of that genuinely Nelson. You've pronounced the name of the university right Lee high. Yeah I think that's how I've heard it pronounced before but it's somewhere in America a medical Kansas Arkansas. So who knows I would like to say. I'm sure there are people who take that musical instruments to that office jobs. They all probably musical instruments. That are better at like just a general of background melody situation rather than something designed to be a baseline another awesome instruments. Where you see someone come in to work with an Acoustic Guitar. Think Oh God is going to be an entire lunch break of anyway. Here's one the wall just on on someone with a violin gotTA RARELY HOPE. GonNa do something amazing with that because anything less than quite good violin is pretty bad violate and I say that as someone who's pretty bad of the violin now go to great too. I mean I did multiple years learning the recorder and never did any grading tall. So maybe still flashing your musician. Privledge around thanks. I'm sorry about my ups. Points only worked up until I was eighteen. I still want to bring some more without. I do work with someone who plays the bagpipes. But he hasn't brought them to work yet yet. I want him about the Bagpipe episode. One Coal Back. Oh Yeah we're off to a flying saucer memorable though isn't it? Memorable stuff is apparently a lot of the work happening at Lee high high however the pronunciation is meant to be without someone has no. We genuinely only date night vocab that work which was published in American behavioral scientist at the time shows that the majority of ants alumni over ninety percent in fact now working on arts related jobs or at some point in their lives. Working on arts relate to jobs. And how do you bring that creativity into the workplace? Keep that creativity and those skills alive in you. This is something that the research is involved described as the concept of creative identity. How people who think of themselves as creative trained to be creative volt do what do not view that gravely portable skill in various occupational contexts. I you still an artist. If you have a desk job I used to Lee musician. If you are making ends meet. Whatever it is you need to do is getting done. I feel like this is relevant to discussions about the way that for example Maths and science education or always seen as having transferable skills whereas people don't necessarily think the same way about arts education. You'll be like well. What's the use of being able to analyze something to do with the painting blahdy Blah but the research skills the skills of contextualising and just open mindedness and creative thinking definitely always come in handy a musical perspective? A lot of music is a team work with sometimes dozens up to a hundred other people trying to get the same piece of music to sound good to maybe even thousands of people listening to it and that's as a soft skill that's a pretty useful one to Leeann or the ability to look at the series of holds that we call a saxophone and go. I know what to do with that. At S- some very technical knowledge. That is something that is in fact quoted by one of the respondents in this survey whether looking at balancing creativity and work life. An individual explains that I use the technical skills on my instrument as a tool and backdrop for most creative work I do with or without the instrument another one describing his arts training as relevant in working with others and needing to consider people's skills link in the bend not relevant. Because I don't take my TV to work at Microsoft another quote from further down which does give me a little bit of pours now. I think about though that the communication skills and creative thinking I learned at school really helped with lawyering. I'm sure there's a better word for lawyering than lawyering. Only more specific ones practicing the law. I mean really depends in what way they all rely. And the results of flavors of lawyer true one of the respondents. Just down the page from that I quote about lawyering. Droese very distinct mind between arts. His creative lorries thinking. Apparently creativity isn't a thought process. That's up to them. But in the Oval Analysis researchers attached to this paper wherever it is that they are from find that about sixty percent of graduates alumni say somewhat or very satisfied with the opportunity to be creative in their work and seeing as my job is now kind of fulltime audio production. It's touching on skills that I did kind of foster from playing in bands and recording crummy punk songs in parents lounge so an informal training but my background is now directly influencing my work. So I guess I'm in that sixty percent and if we want more direct way of how your musical background influences your day to day life we can point to how upset you get when people can't clap in time concerts. It's so bad at it. I know like doppler effect and time and stuff but people also lousy timing lots of people. Just don't have run moving onto next story his puzzle for you guys at home. Which do you think is more dangerous to your personal health professionally punching people and getting punched out by people or musical theater. The answer Michelle Kim turns out both. Let's call them disciplines for the sake of argument involve quite a lot of head injuries. That aren't necessarily treat it seriously as they should be. Because you know people get bumped on the head and you just go get back to it. Is it really that trained on what to look for us a concussion? Because I've done I eight and I don't remember it coming up. I only know because of that. One time I did get concussed a month. I was being dramatic. I doubt another bang on the head earlier in the day that I hadn't mentioned and then I started throwing up well. Sports and traumatic brain injury. Do have a proven link. I think there was an entire will smith film about it and football in American football and mixed martial arts. The risk and rate of head injury remain unknown. Going to Saint Michael's hospital a higher university though have done the numbers when it comes to concussion symptoms in the performing arts and sixty seven percent of theater workers surveyed had experienced head impacts almost forty percent at more than five. This is among many reasons. You should make sure everyone has got some like first aid and health and safety training because I mean I don't know how many of you listeners have been backstage in theaters but there is an awful lot of stuff that could drop on your head lights scenery of the performance. Think he made the of people who've been thrown into the air and then come back down on you if you've gotta take any kind of a full as part of a performance. If someone has left the drama studio floor a little bit dump because they were getting sweaty Watson Noggin Bankin opportunities so many or as few or tat a sophomore student at Ohio relates with a bit more experience from having actually done it and not described head injury as bonking wants. Noggin as I just have. She is not surprised by the study. Don't and said she wants slipped and fell hitting ahead and felt really off. She had had light sensitive noise and took some time to rest since it was the end of the semester. Not much work to do. Even though she was eventually diagnosed with concussion data admits that had their injury occurred during a show. She would have kept working. There is a feeling that if you say you can't do the work someone else. We'll just get to do the work. There are some parallels in the head injury. Study where basically we don't have the numbers because what constitutes a serious head injury is defined and the numbers don't necessarily exist to make comparisons to of sports and activities with the performing arts one again. This is something where the numbers aunt well understood. And it is probably being under reported in official statistics. You're not gonNA find lots of people talking about two in the accident book. Even in the training book out of something like two hundred fifty pages had protection. Received all of two thirds of a page according to this press. Release in front of us and you can definitely tell that people are going into an anime fight without head protection and then get immediately punched in the head. I feel like it's not going to be long until the numbers do not coming in for that. Yeah I would expect much like boxes and American football players. There will be an increasing number of retired sports people with obvious symptoms of brain injury But preventing head injury. We can move onto preventing burnout. She's kind of a mental health concern. It does tie in. I'm sure there's a segue here with work from Tulane University looking at using arts and humanities in medical school to help people just be better people and specifically be better doctors which is nice we always want doctors to be better And in the words of senior author Mark Con the Peterman process a professor and senior. Associate Dean in the University of the School of Medicine. The humanities have often been pushed to the side in medical school curricula but our data suggest that exposure to the ants are linked to important personal qualities for future physicians. This is the first study to show this. Correlation a conducted an online survey measured exposure to the arts personal qualities that could be considered positive and useful for practicing doctor and negative qualities associated with wellbeing. We've a sample of medical students now. I'd say seven hundred nine realtively small so put. I'd say for a single institute study. That's fatty comprehensive. And if there are any questions and I would encourage this to be repeated in vote out across a couple of other places for observational studies and confirmation because if it does end up making doctors more resilient to burn out and being able to function better as empathetic humane people. Then let's give that as much chance to work as we can. Because the correlation these surveys revealed was that medical students who had more exposure to the arts scored higher in arpanet visual spatial skills empathy and scored low On qualities associated with burn out. They don't mention controlling for whether this people who are better at those desired qualities are just more likely to seek out and engage with outs. They've not necessarily sure causal relationship. That would be something. I'd be interested in investigating those people skills a better more liking to do something creative. Or is it coincidence? That sets of qualities and exposure to arts there is like there is a different factor that links them because having interacted with lots of people who are very artsy and very academic and some who are both very outspoken very academic. It is possible that this isn't necessarily a causal relationship coming back to the first people we had about opportunities to use your creative skills and the soft skills transferable skills from background in the onset work some musicians after member lots and lots of things. Doctors have to remember more more serious stuff for show and mastery of any kind is going to inform the learning skills and practice skills as well for taking up any other disciplines that said if dr did come to my bedside table and he was adna singing songs from Sweeney. Todd I would still have polls yeah. That would definitely be an appropriate. I've told you about the statistics when I had my wisdom teeth removed front. Yeah yeah the Jodi Roger Tattoo. Yeah fasting I remember that upside down skull looking at me. I'm just going to send you to sleep now. The exact opposite feeling is covered in our next press. Release from the University of the arts. Helsinki art creates hope. The press release covering the release of the new educational texts on critical articulations of hope from the margins of Arts Education. This is edited by Eva Angela and Anina Swaminarayan and covers. How might be a response to many problems that the human race is currently struggling with? They list them. In the introduction to the book natural disasters political crises prolonged violent conflict global corporate greed continuing disrespect for Foundational Human Rights Environmental and economic impoverishment and increase in hostile attitudes. That's really detailed. What I fear and have anxiety about on a daily basis. Yeah I mean it's It's an extremely stressful. Time to be a person operating as part of society. I had a general problem with the world for a while. Now and I've articulated each of these very very clearly. There's a wonderful quote from evangelical paragraphs below this introductory list of the problems which they think out can help relieve odd can have a crucial role in saving the world. There's a lot of potential there that has not yet been utilized gooding to until who has a fantastic title of professor of dance. Pedagogy at the University of Helsinki. That's the job that when you are talking to someone new party and they go. What do you do and you say? I'm professor of Don's pedagogy. At the University of Helsinki. And they're like oh professor. Interesting of DON'S. Wow dance pedagogy okay. This like it's like a PAS fait as late as I've yes. Shrek references in the euro. Twenty twenty will still have exactly as much as they did. The first time around honestly people take the pace out of Shrek without first movie was the first to actually. We're really really good soundtracks bannon. Yeah absolutely anyway saving the world without which I suppose we could draw more Shrek links to but will leave that alone for now until it does specifically use climate change as an example suggesting we might raise the next generation to be creators on reformers rather than simply consumers which yeah some of you might have watched a year or so ago now a program that the BBC Ron Kuby Victorian House of Arts and crafts. They got a bunch of artisans and craftspeople together to live the arts and crafts movement lifestyle for a month also. And that's the mood basically. That's that's what William Morris and all his colleagues in the arts and crafts movement were going for is people who make rather than people who can see. I can see that. We're on the right kind of trajectory that following the mid thousands financial crash in which everyone was broke too now the increased public discourse and engagement with social political topics. We are in the woke phase and then we move into bespoke I see we're really meaning hard. Which if anyone is listening to this he's like under the age of twenty five. This is probably painful to listen to the transformation into my father begins. I mean I don't know whether any generations listen to podcast if you do give us a wave. Young people as my scientifically engaged teams at lots of them are in their twenties now. They're like like aging into proper adulthood. Which is wild no. I've only just finished being my twenty S. That's not right. We're going to a different topic of causes for my anxiety but I will follow this up the conversation that we're having about the out to save the world thing when you talk about the financial crisis. I was going to point out about how in Greece. After the economy like completely imploded and money became essentially meaningless. In having a job it became essentially meaningless of Voss number of people gave up their day. Jobs became like Yoga teaches and potters and weavers and stuff because if everything is based off basically a Baltic system you can kind of make value out of anything you're doing and it's unfortunate that it took basically the total collapse of the economy to do it. I'm hoping the rest of the world won't have to get to that point. There were good two or three seconds when I thought I don't remember that with musical. I know it's first thing on Sunday morning. They get a great shot anyway. You might think this whole saving the world without saying to sound a bit leftie. Liberal Metropolitan Elite hippy dippy and woo woo to quote directly from the Press. Release the book presents perspectives on that education from marginalized context and communities around the world. The inspiration for the book came. Edit has noticed that a large portion of literature on arts education is in some way linked to the Anglo American academic context that the contributions are a collection of educators research. And not as you have devoted their research and practice to exploring how to utilize arts education to work towards Justice Equity Sustainability and hope when communities or groups are faced with the most challenging or entre situations. I'm preaching to read this to be honest. It sounds like there's going to be some really good stuff in it and as somebody who frequently experiences deepened affecting art feels. I'm into it. I'm very into it. So that's critical articulations of hope from the mountains of Arts Education from the University of arts. Helsinki this press release from November twenty. Eighteen you should be able to find it in local libraries or through whatever online access portal. He views and while we're on the subject of using art to improve the world. How about music lessons. Which according to this press release from frontiers in neuro science music lessons improve children's cognitive skills and academic performance. And this is something that I have had hands on experience with those in music lessons up until I was about sixteen on a couple of different instruments and have been playing in bands for all of that time as well to those informal music education as well as we were talking about earlier. You got not just a length of time. A depth of learning and there was very much the expectation that if he were playing an instrument in the county music service that I was a part of. You probably some kind of a nerd which is true Although admittedly you big bras boys with less no D. than say the first violin. Different kind of nerd bear in mind that the biggest process that I sat next to the first Hebrew for a long time a guy called James did have lord of the Rings Tattoos Okay. But he was very hype. One return of the king came out he was able to be ninety about other things whereas the first violin probably only has space in their life to be not about violin because outside competitive that's why trump violent whereas youtube ists scope to be not about other things because there are fewer of you to compete fairly grow establishing some kind of ecosystem. You know. That's how that is you've spent enough time on the humor section of classical. Fm to know that's how that is have it. It's a riot anyway by personal experience with this is backed up by this research published in front of neuroscience from the Vu University of Amsterdam with corresponding authors. Being Dr Arti Africa and Dr Hanging. Hernan children who received music lessons showed improved language based reasoning and the ability to plan organizing complete tasks as well as improved academic achievement. Who didn't Adultery Ashqar? This suggests that the cognitive skills developed during music lessons can influence children's cognitive abilities in completely unrelated subjects leading to overall improve performance. And they do mention right at the end of the Presley Snot. Both music and arts classes is supposed to be applied throughout old Dutch primary schools by the twenty twenty and they are hoping that these results will really push that. I am from a relatively privileged background. I'm absolutely amazed that their primary schools in the Western World. That don't have music and art lessons in that. Maybe like an afternoon once a week with the whistles with recorders. Yeah Yeah we have handbells actually my primary school and you know it was it was one set for the whole school and everyone would get one hundred bell and I mean that was more a lesson in timing and cooperation than music. I'll such but it counts. We had sessions about movement and we definitely had art lessons. I've got the sketchbooks still. We had a singing and clapping. And I mean we have to do Hymns in assembly as well we did hymns and occasional Beatles songs pickers Mr crips. Who did the piano playing for singing in school? Assembly was a massive Beatles. Tiny straight pastas called the whole world in his hands or things. Bright and beautiful. I get by with a little help from my friends fair enough. Obviously as like eight year olds we feel. I get high with a little help from my friends. Men in like a a metaphysical sense rather than a narcotic sense I believe that was the justification they used in cold yes. These findings from the University of Amsterdam backed up in latest study. That we've got the press release four as well this from George Mason University. They find that taking arts class leads to better academic performance this one from a larger group of students the Amsterdam one including one hundred forty seven children in Dutch schools that George Mason University study thirty one thousand three hundred thirty one students. And what's better? Is this large scale. Longitudinal study not only traces that participants academic achievements but I also controls for other factors which is not something many studies of this have done so the legitimate criticism of the kids who are more privileged to start with are more likely to have access to music education and the majority of them were Latino Black English language learners and receiving free or reduced price school lunches so this is very much a less privileged sector of the population music lessons. Don't come for free most of the time which is a shame because they ought to. If you can afford to have music lessons you can probably afford tutors and stuff as well. If you'll going to go to the author of taking your kid to music lessons taking your kid to grading exams you'll leading a lifestyle afford to that and you'll probably having greater input into your child's education in general. You probably sitting down and helping them with their homework. So as to studies backing up the arts should be part of education and they improve your thinking across the different subjects that will contribute to leading and participation that you can engage with and your science classes as well which is why you should fund the Arts World. I mean where is the Science Textbook Industry going to be without science artists to do your diagrams? looking around this room. How many signs out illustrations do we have on the wall? I mean I was thinking about the one skin. But she'll okay. That's what I can take with me. The one physically etched into your forum science is in the anklets skin metaphysically and literally. And finally we've talked about how arts can hope you learn and the value of a comprehensive education arts in science and possibly not knocking that information straight out of your head with Thai boxing or whatever on what else can really contribute to consolidating information helping you submit ideas and maybe even come up with some new ones of your own according to mathematicians at the University of Arizona Failing fifteen percent of the time and this research published in nature. Communications is from a study. Titled the eighty-five percent rule for optimal learning. Lead author of the Study Robert Wilson University of Arizona Assistant Professor of psychology and cognitive science worked with collaborators at Brown University the University of California Los Angeles and Princeton to conduct a series of machine learning experiments teaching computers simple tasks and established that when the computers were able to give the right answer eighty five percent of the time then. They learned the fastest. Obviously my first though I'm reading that this was a machine. Learning experiment was well whilst not to do with anything else or computers the same as anything else happily the researchers have headed off at the pass there and done some Meta analysis of other studies. I'm found that. In general in learning experiments this eighty five percent. Rule seems to hold out and there's the old adage about learning from your mistakes goes if you're making nothing but mistakes and he's clearly not lend but if you are making just a little bit of mistake to think a Ha. I must remain agile and engaged with this. I can just breeze my way through it. And they even mentioned the importance of maintaining this sort of right because with people if something is too difficult if not getting enough right to encourage them there is a fairly high chance you will just give up the words of Holson forgive you really easy. Examples hundred percent right all the time. There's nothing left to learn to forgive. You really hard. Examples may be fifty percent correct. And he's still not learning anything new something in between it can be sweet spot where you're getting the most information for each particular example if you taking glasses at a too easy and translate that to classes. That are too easy all the time. You probably aren't getting as much out of the classes someone who's struggling but managing to keep up. The hope is that we can extend this where can start talking about more complicated forms of learning. Now what this doesn't get into which I am interested to find out about it. How you apply this how you celebrate something to produce the eighty five percents success rate if it's anything like the primary and Secondary Education. I had do not give the entire class the same test because as someone who sat around that one hundred percent mark and kind of stopped trying. There is the concern that if you have an innate ability in something you don't build the patterns of behavior about learning about taking in new information about adjusting to new information as it comes your way. Yeah I was a similar position I didn't need to realize until it was too late to learn to revise and with the attitude to learning of. I know this it'll be fine and then you have a big fail. It don't adjust you. Don't learn from that mistake. You have another break. Yeah Yeah a little bit you get halfway through an Undergrad degree and think. Oh God this is actually what I want to do. What do I want to do? Oh God I'm not reaching my potential. I could have done so much better. I was such a precocious kid. I had a really high reading age when I was nine and look at me now. So yeah please do have a go. At tailoring education to kids abilities give them something to strive full and build a little bit of wiggle room before they hit that big crashes a teenager I think it is important. We mentioned the opposite end of the scale where everything is a struggle a metaphor you kind of just give up on trying to learn stuff and disrupt classes and end up dropping out of school before you finish. Gcc's case for tailoring education as best you can meeting. Everyone's needs where they are with what they have with what they can do. If you'd like to join us in this educational revolution then festival right to your local elected representatives. And ask that of them because they have more say in this kind of discussion than we do if they do constituency surgeries and stuff to see if you can turn up in person that really works as up to date with informal. Learning through our podcast. We are at Eureka. Nerd const on twitter. You can find us on facebook force actually recod- or send us an email to reconnect cost at gmail.com. That's Erica nut cost at G. Mail dot com if you have enjoyed this particularly themed episode and wanted to hear more themed Ad Roads in the is going. Then let us know about that as well if you want to hear more. Just random spatterings of the latest news. Then tell us that too. And if you want to help support our efforts and defray the cost of producing this GEICO's a few quid on our Koffi. Koffi DOT COM folks shaken ican at but just before we part ways from the American Society of plastic surgeons seizing the incredible insights from attracting technology to help design better boobs. What Yep what makes more attractive pressed? Well let's see what people looking at and then try and make that in. Whoever needs a knee boob unfortunately listeners? You can't hear the face I'm pulling. It's quite a face but like they're not pressed to natural structures. They're not really like they owe to be looked. But that's not their only purpose and we should really as a society be moving away from trying to quantify anything's value by how nice it is to look at. Don't get me wrong. I like things to be pretty but people are allowed to look how they look. But that's all from us. We'll see you again soon until then bye bye bye bye. This podcast is brought to you by the stimulus network.

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S2  [5] Those High-Powered Lawyers | The Ballad of Billy Balls

The Ballad of Billy Balls / The RFK Tapes

38:33 min | 2 years ago

S2 [5] Those High-Powered Lawyers | The Ballad of Billy Balls

"The ballad of Billy balls is presented by ADT real protection. One night. I came around the corner of third avenue, and it was snowing. Those Billy outside shoveling snow away from his away from his store, and he was wearing a pair of boots like rubber boots because it was freezing. And he was completely buck naked and in the middle of the street and shoveling away. You will Larry three I guess didn't give a fuck about anybody else or what they thought it was confrontational brash. And he also had a really big heart. This is Robbie Bowman a musician friend of Billy's and the guy who went to the morgue with my mom to identify Billy's body. I went with Billy's very close friend Robbie Bom in to the medical examiner. We took the cab of two city mortgage never been there before. And it brought us down stairs. And there was some window with curtains, and they opened the Kirk. And he was there. And he had a covering from his hairline up. There was some sort of covering and there was a blanket from his neck down. We are seeing him in profile. And I remember thinking how hard it is to recognize somebody without their hair. And without seeing them standing up. You know, your mother recognized him. And so I said I have to. What's your experience of his shooting, and then eventual death it was fishy from the start. But I was told that the police broke in years one guy, right and shoots. Now. Why did he shoot him? I don't know. But. It seemed more like an execution to me. And and you know, I don't think anybody bought the idea that this was a legitimate arrest. And then he was in the hospital, and he started to get better which were all amazed and. I, you know, next thing we heard was that he had died. Because they had taken him to exercise to the exercise room needed exercise. Apparently. We knew what that match. You know that he'd been Merck. Robbie thinks that after Billy's survived the shooting someone came to the hospital to finish the job. So that scared the shit out everybody. And scare the shit out of me at least and that to me that's what they murdered. It was like oh shit. You know, we'd better like not talk about this loud. Very much. Yeah. It wasn't like, you know, we better start investigation with the newspaper something this is really scary. You know, if they can do that to you would you're in. That'll is like clear message to leave it alone. Today on the show, we asked was there a conspiracy to murder Billy in order to keep him, quiet. And we do our best to separate fact from fiction. I oh tallit. Right. And this is the ballot of Billy ball. Something has gone wrong. I got the impression that he had possibly killed. Somebody. Him going for Don against any. It was a revenge. Thank from the cops. Why did they want to kill him? Both were I don't have any idea and that. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Chapter five those high powered lawyers. The ballot of Billy balls is brought to you by away away creates special objects luggage bags and more that are designed to be resilient resourceful and essential to the way. We travel today. I have one of their carry on suitcases, and it is awesome. I went to Columbia with it last year, which by the way is a beautiful country that you should consider visiting and my waste suitcase was perfect. It's made with this premium German polycarbonate which means it's ultra lightweight, but superstrong and inside there's this compression system, which kept all my stuff. Exactly the way I packed it. But my favorite part the suitcase comes with a removable battery that can charge your cell phone tablet. Anything that's powered by USB cord which was crucial to have in Columbia because sometimes you're in the middle of nowhere. When your phone is about to die, which makes you panic a little bit because he can't speak the language, and you might need to show your cabdriver where your hotel is. That you have a place to sleep that night. The battery is genius for twenty dollars off one of these awesome. Suitcases visit away travel dot com slash crime town and use the promo code crime town all lower case during checkout. Robin Hood is an investing apt that lets you buy and sell stocks ETF's options in cryptos all commission free. While other brokerages charge up to ten dollars for every trade, Robin Hood doesn't charge any commission fees. So you can trade stocks and keep all of your prophets. Plus, there's no account minimum deposit needed to get started. So you can start investing in any level. The simple intuitive design of robinhood makes investing easy for newcomers. Experts alike view, easy to understand charts and market data and place a trade in just four taps on your smartphone. You can also use stock collections such as one hundred most popular with Robin Hood, you can learn how to invest in the market as you build your portfolio. Discover new stocks track your favorite companies and get custom notifications for price movements. So you never miss the right moment to invest Robin Hood is giving listeners of crime town presents a free stock like apple Ford or sprint to help you build your portfolio. Sign up at. Crime town dot Robin, Hood dot com. Hi is this Mark just hey, Mark. My name's I oh, I'm Rebecca rights kid. Yeah. I. Good. How are you? Actually. I'm a little sick. This is Mark pines an old friend of my mom's Mark was the first person she called after she found out Billy had been shot. So I'm hoping he might have some answers. I am trying to figure out what the hell happened to Billy. And you are named that keeps coming up. Yeah. Sure. Are you around New York right now? Yeah. So great to see you hang out. Definitely. Can you come over get us some food sent up and and we'll we'll talk. So my producer Austin. And I go to see Mark at his apartment in the village. Got forty years worth archives in storage rooms around the city of everything I ever shot in the seventies and eighties. Mark worked as a video artist. He produced some of the first music videos for bands, like hall and Oates, Jefferson starship and a lot of commercials my mom modeled for him while she was pregnant with me. We use the Ford face of the eighties models and is Rebecca from back was in. I think it was about her seventh eighth time. Rebecca, I think we have an unspoken bond on a level that we've never tried to explain to each other. If just enjoyed and of course, talking about my mom leads to talk of Billy and what happened to him. I wanna hear your theories before I tell you. From what I could piece together. I mean, Rebecca, call me, you know, she called me right after it happened. Well, she said. Just call me pines pines. And Billy been shot. What she told me about it was sometime mistaken identity. Thought he was a much bigger drug person than he was. And he went down. I think they got him in the kidneys. And he was in the hospital, and he was hurt. But he was not critically hurt. He was gonna make it. He was gonna make it. And they began to realize that they had the wrong guy. And somewhere in the hospital one of the attendants. Turn him over when he wasn't supposed to opened up the moons and caused a massive hemorrhage, and he died. Died from secondary situation as I remember it again, this is filtered through many years. After Billy was shot. And while he was in the hospital. Mark says he did everything he could to help my mom. I try to be there for she was going through stuff. I got them. You know, pointed them in the direction of a lawyer. I got Mark pines on the phone, and he told me to of the heaviest lawyers in New York City right off the backs because it was clearly a big civil suit, you know, and some horrible crime against Billy balls. The way my mom tells it the too heavy lawyers started building a case. Yeah. The lawyers visited Billy in the hospital. They got testimony from him. A case was being brewed up the lawyers had all the sit on paper. And the paper was evidence when need that we need that bad, right? The names of lawyers, right? The fucking lawyers. It's another thing that I just can't fuck and remember, Chris my mind has just. Put this out, you know. But I I'm sure that I can figure it out. If I if I talked to Mark pines. Do you? Remember, the lawyers that you got involved for my mom because they're thinking about. And v lawyer for people in the village a guy named high shore. Sure H Y S H O R. Mark believes that one of the high powered lawyers. My mom was working with was a guy named high Schorr. Thank you, Mark. And thank you for all of your time and researching and helping me and this name thing, I hope that. I hope that of that opens up something, you know. I sure. Lawyer back in the studio Austin, and I searched for any information about high shore. Hi, short, lawyer state of New York. What the fuck there's nothing. I can't find anything about a famous lawyer named high shore I found the name high shore in court records. As a defendant as like, you know, not as a lawyer as somebody who's being sued. That's the only time I found his name. So then that's wrong. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Eventually Austin manages to track down someone who worked briefly with high shore glow. I is this Robert Steinberg speaking, the conversation doesn't reveal much except one curious detail. We just have to share good person high shore yet to hook on one arm. A hook. Yeah. You didn't have one arm. Oh, wow. They had a device. Do you have any thoughts about other people who might have worked with him or known him? No. All right. We need a little legal assistance. And luckily. We know who to call accused me during that document. They're the ones that do that judge not he's one of the best known criminal defense and civil rights turn in the country. The message that comes out of this is the government is saying that it's all right for white people to go out and pick up guns and shoot black people. He's famous for defending victims of police brutality members of the Hells Angels and the so-called Gambino crime family. He even got a shout out in the movie, the big lebowski shoot lebowski one fucking lawyer, man. A what? A what? Wrong could be. Hello. Hey, I o run Kuby. Hey, how are you? Good. So whereas villi balls buried now. After the break, Ron Kuby. The ballot of Billy balls is brought to you by mattress firm if grimy tales of crime in wrongdoing are keeping you up at night might be time for a new mattress. And you're in luck right now, you can save up to five hundred dollars on top rated beds during mattress firm's semi annual sale with a new comfy bed. You'll have no time to think about corruption and villainy because you'll be in dreamland as soon as your head hits the pillow say goodbye daytime sleepiness because that's the criminal. You'll never see again. Again, check out mattress firm semi annual sale to save up to five hundred dollars on top rated beds. So how can I help the project? Well, I. Where do I even start? I'm on the phone with civil rights attorney, Ron Kuby telling him the story of Billy balls. And they were like, yeah. William Heisman shot five times. Get the fuck outta here. So she then went and called a friend and he gave the number of high powered lawyer, but we haven't been able to locate this lawyer. I I hate it. When those high powered lawyers just of apparatus is that thing that happens like hook. No, it's it's it's not a thing that happens. It really isn't do you know his name. Well, the one name we had was high shore. Does that ring a bell for you high? Sure. I mean, I knew a lot of the high powered lawyers in that day doesn't ring a bell. If you've been able to find any reference to my mind, nothing with that Ron gets off the phone works ah. Magic and calls me back. I oh Ryan how are you know, good high shor is dead long with high shore. I sure present. I had a feeling has transitioned. I sure cross the rainbow bridge. I sure celebrating his blank year in heaven full. Good one. Thank you. One lawyer who might hold the key to everything is dead. So I keep digging with Ron who is very much alive. So why did Billy balls get? We're assuming he was killed by the police. Right. I mean, that's what it sounds like. Well, yes, no, our number. There are a number of plausible theories. Really what I'd like to do is interview you in person. But I think before we've been we'll do that. Oh, that's fine. Great. That's yes. We have dogs here. You're good with that. I'm great with that very excited about really really good. This is an eighteen year old old Frazee we show up to Ron's office and are greeted by three dogs one of which is in a corner staring at the wall. No, she just can't see anything. She's just wind so way to make fun of her disability. Hey, why don't you make fun of fucking Jack? He only has three legs. My office is in the corner there everyone runs tall with grey goatee and long hair pulled back in a ponytail. His office walls are covered with framed photos. One of which catches our eyes photo is is a group of Hells Angels. Looking very mean and intimidating me. Let me know. Let me know they look as one guy said to me when he was charged in a federal crime, and extortion thing and his role was to look scary and breathe heavily. I should look scary. Agreed. I mean, when did it become Crump, then we sit down and start talking about Billy. Thank you for making time for us in meeting with us. We're now unpacking. The history of who this person is. And who he was and why this would have happened. And there've been a lot of different theories and the conclusions are multitudinous if that's a word, but. Viewer. Notting? Great great word. So I go into the multitudinous theories starting with how Billy may have been involved in some illegal activities. Everybody's doing drugs. Everybody's up to like, whatever degree of elicit. And how Billy news shit was about to go down. Billy saying I want to get in the winds like it's time to move some. It's getting and how after he got shot he was recovering by all accounts was on the mend and was like on and the city was afraid of the civil suits. She was connected with where some big time lawyers really thought that it was going to be a civil suit. Maybe there's some justification for the fact that like he was killed. What are you done? The whole story is an story. So there's there's sort of two periods of time. Here there is period of time prior to the shooting and the shooting itself, then there's the aftermath of the shooting and his death. So let's take the second part. I because it seems like that part is fueling a notion that he was murdered in the hospital Craton. So let me just try to address that. The basis of all of this appears to be the lawyer telling your mom what a great case. This is. So. Every lawyer in the world who wants a civil case in wants to get retained says, it's a great kicks. No lawyer wants a case ever says cases doc was going nowhere. Don't waste my time. Yeah. To great cases. Fantastic. We'll make you know, millions or hundreds of thousands. This is outrageous. They all say that when they want the case. But maybe high shore was different. I mean, I did a search history on on Mr. shore. And let's just say that that high shore is not going to topple Mr Justice Cardozo from his lofty perch as an Anglo American famous New York jurist at what kind of things did you find about high shore that make you think that mostly he was being sued for not paying his bills and fighting over legal fees, and the the kind of stuff that tends to afflict not terribly goes lawyers when they're on their way down. That's that. This is a revelation to me because the way that my mom painted. It was that the lawyers that she was connected with some big time lawyers really thought that it was going to be a civil suit. And that's why what happened happened Baronne does say that it isn't always the lawyer talking up the case to try to get it. Sometimes at first glance a case does seem great. Wow. The cop shot this guy to death rashly. No reason. And then you start to do some investigation. And it turns out there was a reason. I'm not saying this is what happened here I'm saying. This is what does happen in many cases. The reason was this guy had a gun and this guy pulled a gun on a Cup, and they opened up on it. My mom insists that Billy had gotten all of the guns out of the house. So there were guns in the house. Yes. But your mother insisted Billy hit already cleaned them all out as prepare Tori to him disappearing because of the heat that maybe he got all the house except the one he kind of kept within to deal with the problems that he thought he was facing. I mean, if somebody thinks they're being hunted, and and about to be attacked for their activities, legal or illegal. It does strike me as an odd move that they divest themselves of all of their firearms. Ron is just getting started the fact that he was shot. Multiple times doesn't we set off a warm bills. The cops are trained to shoot at the center. Mass to stop the attacker. The fact that he was shot in the abdomen. And seemed to be on the mend and then died doesn't strike me. As all that. I'd got shots are very very difficult to manage even today. The notion that the police murdered him in the hospital just strike me as farfetched and and really really unlikely. Why? Because the cops did they what people doing fuck a movies. I mean, the cops aren't like doing hits in hospitals to prevent people from talking. What was he going to say? Okay. So Billy wakes up and says I was in my own apartment. Minding my own business and the cops came in. I walked in my apartment, and there are some undercover in a cowboy hat looking around. I confronted you shot me a bunch of times or what if I I've been dealing to this cop or buying from this cop. And he's a dealer. Yeah. I've been dealing with this. I've been selling drugs. He's corrupt. He came into. Rob my stash I called him. And he shot me. Okay. Wakes up and says that fucking crazy didn't happen. You know, I have no prior relationship with this guy, except I knew he was a drug dealer. He came in. He pulled a gun and we shot him. And if we're trying to kill him we want to kill them. And we did we shot him. We recovered the gun to guns in evidence just making up a story. I mean, it's a much easier way of dealing with the problem of Billy than organizing a murder in hospital. Just tonight you deny everything and in one thousand nine hundred eighty two nobody was going to believe Billy balls over the line PD under those circumstances, especially when they claim to had a gun. No cops got prosecuted in the eighties or nineties for that matter for bed shootings. I. There was nothing to fear. Then. Murdo was on the mind of a lot of people along one Harlem street this afternoon. There was a shooting and at that as a general relief, though, even in nineteen eighty two the NYPD did not go around killing people for no reason on the cops part. And I just want to clarify this. There were lots of people who were killed by the police in New York City. Twenty four times by five police officers always so called line of duty say self defense. Others say, no, and it didn't take a lot to get killed by the cops in the line of duty still doesn't he made a motion toward his ways. I thought he had a gun. He pulled out a shiny object. What you saw a lot of was cops just not giving much of shit whom they killed and under what circumstances. How many times? But sort of premeditated murder or a murder in. The course of the cop committing some other crime. Directly. So you're right. Yeah. You can always posit an outlier. You can always posit crazy. Robe drunk drug-addicted cop is totally corrupt. Who you know is rippling through Billy's apartment to steal drugs. Comes in confronts him the cop shoots him multiple times. For whatever reason to can't finish off the final shoddy gets taken to the hospital. The cop is so paranoid. He's going to tell the story and people are going to believe him because the cop after all crazy in since crazy people do pacey things we have to make any logical sense. And then the engineers things to murder Billy in the hospital when he seems like. Sure. Sure. And are proof of any of that is. As I understand things, you have not a single sheet of paper referencing any of this is that correct? I mean for making shit up based on no evidence, we can make up any shit we want and it's all consistent with the no evidence that we have. And there are answers that are attainable. At least if you're claiming this was an unjustified police shooting. Then one thing you would look to are the plot topsy reports that is was he shot in the front or the back just kind of basic things. After meeting with Ron it's clear that we have a lot of work to do. And it's also clear that there may not have been a crime committed against Billy. So before we leave. I asked Ron a bigger question have been wrestling with knowing that the truth is very complicated. I think about my mom, and the story that I've heard my whole life. And I wonder what your opinion is on the best way to protect someone like my mother in this situation. If you think that the truth is actually a weapon against someone who has lived thirty seven years in grief. Best way, not do this project. Let sleeping dogs lie. But dead be dead. Let people continue to live out their grief in the narrative that they're attached to. I mean, there's sometimes that truth is incredibly important. But that doesn't mean it's always important or people always need the truth or people want the truth and doesn't sound like your mother, particularly wants the truth. And. So I wouldn't have done this. But now, the are I don't have a better answer. Can we come back? We have some more pieces favor. Sure. Find some paper. And then we'll see what we what we can make the pieces of paper without pieces patriots, very difficult. All right. Thank you. Okay. What do you think? I'm thinking that it would be very easy to be deflated by that. But I feel like now I feel all the more determined to get the actual evidence. Whatever we can get our hands on. Because as unlikely as it may be as outlier as it may be the fact is that like sometimes crazy shit did happen. So I guess I'm a little bit. Like, I wanna think about it. Like a lawyer where I just wanna see the that's now. Hi there. I'm trying to find out about. So I called the office of chief medical examiner in New York in nineteen the more. I'm trying to have some of his records released, and I wonder what kind of documentation we would need to do that. Do you? How did this? If you know, you don't nothing kids trying to find. Okay. What do you do? They feel. He was my mother's longterm boyfriend not laid to you not by blood to me. No. But he was his partner. No, we not you cannot sorry only. The families on low summited big on requests. Okay. Thank you. You come up. Billy's blood relatives can request his records. And as we understand it. His mother his father and his older brother are all dead. But. There's someone else someone that could change everything. Vaguely kid at one point. She was sweet girl. What happened? Or was there a daughter around? Then she was the daughter of Lynn Todd and Billy's the legal father. The daughter was two and a half. When to set to win ties mother in Washington state. Did they tell you her name when they I told you? Manda. In the next chapter the ballad of Billy balls. Amanda. Crime town is sack Stewart Pontiac and marks Marley. The ballot of Billy balls is hosted by me, I o till it right and made in partnership with cadence thirteen you can find me on the internet. I o loves you on everything. And if you want to know more about my story, pick up my memoir, darling days, we also want to hear from you. We've avoi- smell set up for you to call us old school. Here's Mia who had something really nice to say, I want to say that it's the most enthralling incredible story I've ever heard it makes me think about my own mom, and how me law. For love of her life, my father because he thought away from mental illness, and I do the same thing for my mom. I would want to help her heal. And I would want to understand what happens in her life before I came along. If there's somebody Billy reminds you of or you have a theory on what could have happened you just want to tell us your feelings Carla's and leave us voicemail at five seven three nine two nine six six. Oh, you can also get into our discussion forum on our website, the ballot of Billy balls dot com. The show is produced by me Kevin shepherd and Ryan swicord. Our senior producer is Austin Mitchell editing by Zach Stewart Pontiac and marks Marling fact, checking by Jennifer black men this episode was mixed and sound designed by Sam bear music by Kenan cusak. Our title track is dark allies by light asylum. Thank you, Shannon. Archival research by Brennan wreath. Thanks to yell Araya. Rachel Lea right? Emily wiediman. Green card pictures Allesandro since for oh, Bill Clegg, Ben Davis, Oren Rosenbaum and the team cadence thirteen and slim slam for keeping me on my toes. And of course, my mom without whom none of this would be possible.

Billy Billy balls Ron New York R. Mark Billy ball murder Mark pines Hells Angels Robin Hood New York City Austin ADT Ford producer Larry Merck
The Court TV Cases

The Family Crime Cast

29:40 min | 9 months ago

The Court TV Cases

"Hey all right how are you? I'm good how are you very good? As a matter of fact I see you've escaped to Florida. Yes yes your mother and I took a look at the weather forecast. The New Jersey was not that promising for Memorial Day so we decided take a road backed up. The car backed up rocky our dogs. Your second favorite dog now and we're headed to Florida for a few days so we're down here in. We'll be back in a few days night. It's you did for Memorial Day. Well I worked a lot which. I'm very grateful for very grateful that I had the opportunity to work when a lot of people don't have that right now at this time for those job now. I work in production and when the pandemic started I was out of work along with a lot of freelancers in our industry and I was given the opportunity to remotely record these videos which I never thought in a million years would be auction for me in my industry. But I'm very grateful for that and I think it's really interesting. I mean it's not just me. It's a lot of everyday. Business has obviously moved to this virtual form of communication including the justice system and I think we briefly touched on it at the beginning of last episode but from your perspective if you WanNa give us a little more insight. What has that been like for you. Well as you said. You'd never expected that you could operate remotely with what you do. Well quite frankly. I never thought that I could operate remotely what I do. I mean I'm a trial at chart. I go to court every day. That's that was my job with the pandemic you know. We have now evolved into a remote court virtual court. I've done guilty pleas I've done. Sentences arraignments had status conferences. All remotely all from my chair in the living room. It's quite an experience quite frankly. I think that this is going to expand. As a matter of fact New Jersey is piloting virtual grand jurors meaning that twenty-three people will be sitting in their living rooms or kitchens deciding whether or not a case should be indicted. So we'll see how that works out but again. I don't think we're going to see anything that will lessen the use of virtual precedings I matter of fact. I think it's going to be expanded. It's quite certainly I think. Go to be for new attorneys and hurries up and coming the wave of the future. So that sort of segues into what? We're actually GONNA be talking about today being in front of the camera in a sense. This is going to be a little different from the previous episodes that we've aired but we thought our listeners would be interested in hearing about your court TV appearances and the cases that you commented on on that program. I remember being little and watching you on court. Tv In our living room. I remember even one time you brought us into the city or I think just me into New York to the studio which I was so excited about to watch. When you're tapings. Remember you going in the makeup room in coming out in looking like an invalid blah. 'cause you had so much makeup on it had like this orange tint to it. I don't know why they do orange. I have to think it had to be because of the color temperature of the lights or something I do not know but I always thought it was so cool that you were making these on air appearances. I guess we could start from the beginning. When did you begin making appearances on court? Tv So I started Court TV in one thousand nine hundred four spring of ninety four court TV started in one thousand nine hundred ninety one and they were the first network that actually brought cameras into the courtroom and televised to gavel-to-gavel proceedings with reporters on scene and an anchor and guest commentators. And you've got to realize that back in the late eighties early nineties. There were very few courtroom that allowed cameras in the courtroom whether they be still cameras television cameras. If you remember the old idea of the courtroom artist who would be drawing sketches of what was happening in a courtroom. That was what was occurring but court. Tv changed all that. And they started to get some really big notoriety when they telecasts. Menendez brothers trial which I was in nineteen ninety-three and that sort of took off for court. Tv and one day. I got a call from good friend of mine. Jack Ford who was an anchor for court. Tv who is a former assistant prosecutor? Mama's county she ISA's how would you like to do a little guest commentating on court? Tv So I asked my boss John. Do you think it'd be a good idea because there weren't too many prosecutors who were on TV. There were a lot of former prosecutors and defense attorneys but not many prosecutors. John said Yeah. Yeah go up do a good job and Hell Jack. I said low so headed up to New York and started my career on court. Debbie Harry so why do you think one of the reasons he called you to commentate on court? Tv well the case that he was talking about was going to be a death penalty prosecution and he knew that I had tried to couple of death. Penalty cases was an experienced prosecutor. And they really needed somebody to really not necessarily advocate but to explain to the viewers prosecutor was thinking and how he was going to proceed with a death penalty case. What was that death penalty case though the case that I first appeared on court? Tv was the state of Florida versus Danny Roland. Anti Rowen was accused of murdering five students at the University of Florida. Gainesville Florida and it was quite horrific case. That's the first case that I was called to comment on. So that case is such a crazy story and Danny rolling was nicknamed I believe before they even caught him. But the GAINESVILLE ripper such a horrific case and actually games all ripper was the inspiration for the movie scream. Which is one of my favorite movies and Dad. You probably remember this but I think twenty fifteen halloween rolls around and I went as Casey Becker. The Drew Barrymore character from the I. Scream she's killed in the first ten minutes. It was like wes. Craven's owed to hitchcock killing the star and like the first ten minutes of the movie. One of my favorite scenes and so. I decided to go as her for Halloween. And To my surprise my dad showed up till Halloween party. He was dressed as the ghoul. Ghost costume famously. Made in scream. So one hundred dollars. So if anybody doubted our bonding over murder look no further than twenty fifteen screen fame. Hollowing costs down. So I didn't realize that you know the Danny Rolling case was the basis for screaming until I took a look at some of the stuff with preparing for the podcast. Essen loan behold it. We are the characters and scream. And now we're talking about Danny Rolla now pretty crazy. So what did you comment on Danny Rollins case? What was your commentary? Well you know this. This case terrorize the University of Florida. When it happened we went to into little background of the case Because what he had done is he had murdered five students over four days on the campus in and around the campus of the University of Florida. He was not caught until two years later. He was burglarizing residences in Ocala Florida and he had used some tool bars that try to gain entry and the tool marks that were gathered as evidence in the o caliber. Gorey's were matched to the tool marks. Used in the burglar raised enter the residents. Kill the students. And so ultimately he was cau- and charged with those murders of those students. Yeah I remember reading about the case and just hearing that. He really terrorize the campus. I think they started setting curfews. The college that curfews and and I forget if they ended the semester early or students voluntarily left and it was just like a ghost town because the college students so terrified of the gains over when it was happening so what ultimately ended up happening in that case. Show you know. When he was caught he ultimately confessed to the murders of the students but he was scheduled to go to trial in the spring of one thousand. Nine hundred ninety four and right before the trial was to start. He pled guilty to the murders and the state's attorney in Florida then decided to proceed with the penalty phase the death penalty phase to try to convince the jury that Danny Roller should be sentenced to death and was he sentenced to death. Well after the penalty hearing which involved His mother testifying his girlfriend testifying lawyer testifying a psychologist testifying jury. In April of nineteen ninety four ultimately came back with the sentence of death for Danny role. So what is another memorable case that you commented on to the next case that I commented on was the people of New York versus Colin Ferguson. And in that case Colin Ferguson boarded a rush hour trains from Long Island Railroad people heading back at the end of a work day back to their homes on Long Island and he had automatic weapon and honored sixty rounds of ammunition and systematically went down the aisle of the train shooting people and ended up killing six people as well as wounding night. T wow. I don't even recall ever hearing about this case to be honest. I know it sounds like a really really big story I just. I don't remember hearing about it. We'll lose a reason for that. But you know I'll get into that in a second. But this was a very interesting case because Ferguson initially had a court appointed lawyer and then he had a another lawyer who advocated that he should pursue an insanity defense and then he had two very famous. Liars William Kuntsler and Ron. Kuby who are activists lawyers will also believe that his best defense was an insanity. Defense however Ferguson rejected that defense and wanted to proceed by himself as his own lawyer and indicate or try to convince the jury that it wasn't him who did it the irony of all of that is that the trial involved him actually cross examining the people that he had shot and it turned into quite a I would categorize it. As a bizarre almost circus like atmosphere in that trial and ultimately he was convicted and still serving time now for those murders and attempted murders but the reason why Mariah. Probably you don't hear very much about this. Case is that his trial occurred around the same time as the OJ Simpson trial. That makes a ton of sense son. Yes exactly that's That's why most people do not remember the Colin Ferguson. Although it was a horrific case absolutely horrific I mean it sounds horrific terrifying. I mean you know ending workday and just heading home in your at that point of relaxation and then have to deal with things like that can't even imagine But now it makes so much sense that I never heard about it because Oj Simpson. Was I think maybe the biggest media case I think in the world now like this case was just such a crazy media sensation Variety it was billed. You know back in nineteen started. I think in nineteen October or November of nineteen ninety before in October nine hundred ninety five so it carried on for eleven months and it was billed as the crime of the century and was almost like a professional sporting match like the prosecution the State of California versus the Dream Team. It's almost like the Lakers. And the Knicks. Were playing a basketball game and the promotion was endless or coverage of the OJ Simpson case and So actually I was doing sometime on Sundays double duty. I would do Colin Ferguson. In the morning and then in the later afternoon and evening do commentary on the O. J. Simpson case. So what do you remember about commentating on the o? J. Simpson case will the Oj Simpson case obviously had many different issues? Involved in that case and quite frankly as a prosecutor. I thought that the Prosecution Team Marcia Clark Christopher Darden Bill Hodgman who are all experienced prosecutors had a pretty good case I mean. They had a bloody glove that the crime scene. They had a bloody glove back at. Oj Simpson's residence. They had blood on his socks blood on his Bronco. They had a motive in the case. You know he was a jealous ex husband. She was victim of domestic violence. And you know of course. Everybody remembers that the two victims in this case Nicole Brown Simpson. Who was once married to? Oj and mother of their two children had reported on several occasions that OJ. Simpson had abused her. And Ron Goldman. Who was a waiter at a restaurant unfortunately ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time by returning a pair of eyeglasses that Nicole Brown Simpson had left at the restaurant where he worked and they were brutally murdered. It was a murder murders that we're committed which surely indicated that they were done with savagery and within ten so. I always thought that the prosecution had a great case the piece together to prove that. Oj Simpson was guilty. Now you have to remember that in this case this was one of the first big cases with the use of DNA and DNA matched various samples Nicole Brown Simpson to evidence connecting to Oj Simpson. But it also was subject to attack in the case as being contaminated or corrupted or planted at his as evidence by law enforcement. And that's what the defense hammered at during the course of this entire trial right. I mean it's it's it's obviously one of the most famous cases of all time when most interesting ones and I love the portrayal of it on heavy watched the people vs Oj the American Crime Story. Your yeah have and the they did a pretty good job Portraying all of the characters. Because you know really you did have a cast of characters. You had a very hard driven prosecutor Marcia Clark yet. Christopher Darden who is an younger prosecutor who you know Idealized and believed in the prosecution of this case and then you had the Dream Team of lawyers on the other side. Initially Robert Shapiro headed the defense team. But then ultimately Johnny Cochran headed the defense team and moved in the position of the leadership role of the defense. But don't forget you also had F Lee Bailey Alan Dershowitz Barry Sheck and all those guys Robert Robert Kadarshian and all those guys were part of the defense team. So and then he had Barry Sheck who was at the time the from year person dealing with issues involving DNA so whoever characterized them as the Dream Team certainly did them justice because in fact they had probably some of the best lawyers in the country representing Oj and we followed the case on court TV from the very beginning of the luminary hearing all the way through the verdict? So I think I appeared maybe twenty thirty times on court. Tv during the course of at almost a year of the televised trial and do have any specific moments. That you remember comment that you made or anything like that. Still you remember to this day. I do remember that. One of the motivations are one of the reasons why the state of California pursued. This was because of the fact that they believe that you know. Oj Simpson acted in rage because of the fact that Nicole Brown Simpson. Either may have been seeing somebody else or didn't want to anything to do with them. And she had a history of domestic violence and I remembered that I was doing a lot of domestic violence cases at that time. Back in the mom of county prosecutor's office I remember specifically commenting on The victims of domestic violence and I remember that At some point during an interview of Nicole Brown Simpson's sister that she actually mentioned. My comment is being spot on about. How victims who suffer from domestic violence react. In certain circumstances I remember that and then I remember being called back to be around to sit wait and see for the verdict and certainly that was very memorable to when the jury came back because if everybody remembers they came back very quickly and everybody was surprised that they came back so quickly and then everybody really wasn't sure what the verdict was. GonNa be right and obviously we all know that. Oj was acquitted for the murder of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman and it was pretty theatrical two. I think that the trial itself played to the viewers and they were captivated by this trial. And the commenting you know from my perspective as a prosecutor in because there was some criticism of you know the Marcia Clark and Christopher Darden but I never once criticized you know what they were attempting to do. I was just explaining what they were attempting to do. So certainly wasn't in a position of saying that I would do something different or whatever which some commentators did but I was at least trying to explain to the viewers. Exactly what their position was going to be on various issues in the case so on court. Tv why are some of the more memory horse more memorable people that you've got to work with equity will? They were a great number of people that I got to work with number one the late great Fred Graham who was. Cbs legal analyst Way before they were in vogue which they are now He was a brilliant man and really knew the law and he was sort of like the Vince. Scully of court. Tv Did an excellent play by play of courtroom drama so he was a great guy but there were many others who became quite famous in their own. Right there's Greg Jarrett who gone onto bigger and better things. Terry Moran who is a senior correspondent for ABC News White House correspondent international correspondent for them appeared with Nancy Grace period with Savannah Guthrie Ricky claim in Dan Abrahams. All of these people became very much involved after court. Tv in big positions with various networks as legal correspondents ricky claiming And I had done a number of cases together and we had great chemistry and she kept always bringing me back for my perspective. I thought she was a brilliant lawyer. Brilliant mind and still she is doing legal commentary for CBS. Certainly I have great fond memories of all those people on Court TV. But I wanNA tell you. Ri- One of my favorite experiences was doing a show with Johnny Cochrane after the O. J. Simpson Case Court court. Tv had hired him and originally he did a show with him and Ansi Grace and ultimately he ended up having his own show called Cochran and company and one day. I get a call from his producers saying Johnny Cochran would like you to come up and do a show with that I thought. Wow that's great johnny. Cochran wants me to do a show self go up to New York now. I really really was never nervous during a core TV commentating for the first time going up to be on a program with Johnny Cochran. I I was a little nervous because I wasn't too sure how was guide to receive me here. I was prosecutor and he built his fame and reputation Scenting cases that he believed that the prosecutor was not being fair or had wrongfully charged. Some individual. And here I was. I was first assistant prosecutor in Mama's county coming up to do the show with Johnny Cochran to my the light. We instantly hit it off because we had something in common. Believe it or not Johnny Cochran. Not a lot of people know this but he was the first assistant district attorney for the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office for a period of time and so I went up there as the first assistant prosecutor for Monmouth. County instantly we had a bond of two former or to to first assistant prosecutors and we missed over that type of job and what it entailed and then we rolled into whatever subject matter. We were going to cover that evening. But that was the most enjoyable and memorable evening and I was so sad when just a few short years later he passed away. He truly wasn't a great lawyer and a very fine gentleman who was an is still accredited. The legal profession. Yeah I think like Johnny. Cochran have been one person that I would have loved to me. 'cause I just feel like one. He's just such an icon in the legal world and to I mean like what he did in the O. J. Simpson case. He was just so theatrical so over the top but it worked and people loved him and people were rooting for him. Like you mentioned like it was a sports team and I mean he created the most iconic line in all of court history saying they're people if the glove does not fit mush. I don't I think that line obviously was something that will forever be thought of as being one of the greatest lines to be uttered in a courtroom and I'm sure lawyers all over the world have somehow either mimicked that line or have used it or paraphrase it in some trial or some a preceding but Johnny Cochran is the one who initiated it. Johnny Cochran is the one who delivered it and that's the most important key. It could have not come off very well but he delivered it and it was perfect. Timing and quite frankly it was probably one of the turning points in that trial alkyl so When did you end court? Tv and stop doing appearances. The thumb will court TV sort of ended itself in two thousand eight. They decided to go into a different direction and do sort of crime dramas and get away from the live courtroom televised proceedings. And so that was two thousand. Seven two thousand eight. I think two thousand eight ended my court. Tv experience you know just recently within the last year or so court TV has come back as a digitalized network and one of the original anchors vinnie politics. Who's a New Jersey boy of the original court? Tv is now the anchor with a new court TV Program. There actually once again. Doing what made court. Tv grade is at the televised proceedings and giving commentary on those proceedings. Yeah I mean should I love watching trial footage like I just find that so interesting and I mean all these cases were so public? It's Sorta makes me think of today in the US. Were all diming. Crime obviously doesn't stop have criminal. Trials been postponed. What our criminal case. It's GonNa look like moving forward. Well that's that's a very good question right because you know criminal trials again. Are you know involved person to person contact where you have lawyers giving opening statements and lawyers giving closing statements and examining and cross examining witnesses and that is all done on a personal level where you're trying to connect not only with witness but also with the jury and I think the fact that these virtual proceedings take away from that personal touch that trial lawyers have a need to have when presenting cases in front of a jury? And so. That's going to be a difficult thing not too sure how that's going to be conveyed? I pretty sure that we're a long way from having virtual trials but we bay get there. Yeah I know it's it's going to be interesting to say and we'll try to keep our listeners updated on moving forward if it does become some sort of virtual situation will try to keep you posted on what that's like and in the process of that we also we have a lot of VHS tapes from my dad and his court. Appearance are court TV appearances. So we'RE GONNA TRY. To do is get those transferred to files and hopefully we can post them to our website and other social pages. I just think that'd be really fun to cut his show. Some of the commentary that you did good. That's good so we'll see how this plays out. Rai in the future. Certainly I'll let you know if I become more and more a expert on the virtual reality of courtroom. Today can be the pioneer for a dad. I don't know I don't know if my career is going to last that long but to try to get you on this remote recording situation so maybe too strong of a word to use. Maybe maybe pioneers too strong. But maybe I'll go along with the flow so this episode of. We'd really love to hear from you on our mouth. Family cried costs at Jimbo. Dot Com. Send US some requests of cases. You'd like you're from US. Any other tidbits that you want to send us would be really great and thanks so much for listening to this episode on TV and my Dad's momentary. I found it really interesting. I hope you did choose. So thanks for listening right. Ride love you. I love you too at all right.

Oj Simpson prosecutor Johnny Cochran murder Nicole Brown Simpson New York Colin Ferguson O. J. Simpson Case Court Ron Goldman Florida New Jersey University of Florida California Dream Team Danny rolling
37: Playing multiple games at once

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37: Playing multiple games at once

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Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom - Danny Rincon

Wrongful Conviction Podcasts

47:30 min | Last month

Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom - Danny Rincon

"In the late eighties and early nineties to crack epidemic was in full swing and one. Of new york's most powerful drug gangs was lenny and nelson sepulveda's wild cowboys aka. The red top groom redtop referred to the color of the caps on their crack vials and their less powerful competitors were called orange and yellow top. Yellow top began selling out of an alleyway beekman avenue in the bronx which was redtop. Territory december sixteenth nineteen ninety-one in an incident that became known as the quad murders nelson sepulveda's and three others rolled up with semiautomatics indiscriminately spring. Sixty bullets into the alleyway on beekman killing four and wounding one detective mark tablets was under intense pressure to bring order to the dangerous area and he indicted forty one people as co-defendants for several drug related incidents including the quad murders. Taverns is street sweep turned suspects into witnesses and nine of the forty one indicted went to trial five codependents were blamed for the quad whereas four of whom are innocent and one of those poor. Souls is danny rincon alibi. Witnesses placed danny on the other side of a large city blog at the time of the shooting including a victim's mother and brother but the jury could not see through the trial circus. Atmosphere danny was convicted and sentenced to a hundred and fifty. Eight and a third to life. Clinton garber and farah roster from the exoneration. Danny rincon colleague from attica prison. To tell us about case they've built for danny's freedom. This is wrongful conviction with jason flowers. This episode is brought to you by stand together stand together is a philanthropic community dedicated to helping people improve their lives for more than twenty years. Stand together and its partners have been on the front lines of criminal. Justice reform by empowering people to take action supporting nonprofits and working with businesses. Stand together tackles the root causes of problems in our communities and empowers those closest to the problems to drive solutions solutions like adducing unjust prison sentences through the first step back empowering community based programs help people reenter society and now working to bridge divides in our communities to learn how you may get involved visit stand together dot org slash conviction. Let me tell you about a podcast. That i'm addicted to it's called labyrinths and it is hosted by two of my favorite human beings. My i call her. My little sister. Amanda knox and her partner. Christopher robinson feel like me. you're navigating your own personal mays. I mean life is takes you down. These winding paths deadens shortcuts. Inhabitants amanda and christopher delve into stories of getting lost and found again through compassionate interviews. But much more than that philosophical rant. Play full really entertaining. Debate with fascinating people and i mean really amazing. People season one features interviews with andrew yang malcolm. Glad well jon ronson dave navarro. I mean lavar. Burton expect to arrive at unexpected places when you listen. Check it out labyrinths wherever you get your podcasts. These are difficult times. It's and this pandemic continues to affect our lives. Prolonged isolation can make it harder to get sober and stay sober and recovery centers of america wants you to know. They remain open and ready to help. Recovery centers of america is drug and alcohol addiction treatment leader with detoxification and residential treatment centers across the east coast and midwest at rca. Their expert team of medical professionals will customize a treatment program. That will work for you so that you can begin life and recovery. Rca answers the phone and admits patients. Twenty four seven call today. One eight six six four nine seven zero six seven nine. Rca has inpatient treatment centers across the east coast and midwest when it comes to addiction treatment. You deserve the best start. Your journey to addiction free life of fulfillment and happiness right now. Dial eight six four nine seven zero six seven nine to speak with an rca treatment advisor. That's eight six six four nine seven zero six seven nine. The prepaid collect call sign and made at next state department of corrections canoeing supervision. This call is subject to recording and monitoring to accept charges. press one. Thank you for using secure as you may start the conversation now. Welcome back to wrongful. Conviction with jason flom. Four introduce danny rincon. Who's calling in from prison. Where he's been for a very long time where he doesn't belong. I i'm going to introduce his legal team. Farah rossner barra is an attorney with the exoneration initiative and with us today as well is glenn garber and glenn has been responsible for a large number of exonerations has the founder and director of the exoneration initiative. And it's so great that you're here and so great that you're working on dante's case that i know that you'll be the first one degrees in when he gets out the not much. This case means you. So glenn garba welcome to wrongful conviction. Thank you jason. Happy to be here. And danny rincon calling in from attica. So danny welcome to wrongful conviction. Thank you so much jason. Thank you for the opportunity. Danny is serving. When i think a lot of people will agree as an absurd sentence. He's serving one hundred and fifty eight and a third years to life. But let's not start there. Let's start at the beginning. Danny you grew up in washington heights in the height of the crack epidemic. Can you tell us a little bit about what it was like. It was certainly a volatile neighborhood. A troubled time in new york city. It was a on drugs. There was a high crime and murder. Rate with drugs are prevalent particularly crack cocaine. And i'm not going to say that. I am innocent of being involved in drugs but i would never do what i am. Wrongly convicted of you know my parents were working people. My dad worked at columbia presbyterian medical center for twenty seven years my mom. May she rest in peace. Excuse me my mom. Thirty three years at a goal factory and my parents went car to provide for my brother than me. My parents still values in us. And i made it poor decision those years to take to the streets which brought nothing but shame embarrassment and humiliation my parents and my family. But you know we're blessed in many ways because my parents provided and we have what we need him up others and i and we went to school. We had a great upbringing. Despite the fact that we grew up in a poor neighborhood flooded and riddled with violence and drugs but that was washington heights and the south. Bronx was no different. You know. I've mentioned over to the south bronx age of maybe fourteen fifteen years ago and what i saw. There was not much different than what i've seen in my own neighborhood in washington heights even for the violent insanity that was taking place in the south bronx in washington heights that whole section of the city in those days. This was a particularly violent crime though this was a crime that became known as the quad murders their rival drug organizations at the time in the area in maat haven and there were three that we can discuss which were actually relevant to. This incident was the top organization which is led by two brothers lenny and then there was another organization the orange top which was affiliated with and then there was young. Talk each of these organizations had a separate location where they would sell drugs. They had different people that worked for each of the groups they were stepping on each other's toes. They were fighting over territory. They were fighting a pricing for each of the violence that they were selling trying to undercut the other to take over some territory so it was a drug that was going on between these new organizations. This was not some small time. Drug dealing i mean they were making between ten and twenty million dollars a year. Just the redtop gang itself right. This settled is sort of drunk kingston's and they were the ones who are actually willing most in that area. Big avenue is a small street between st mary's park and one hundred forty four street in the bronx. You're basically ruled dickman avenue with an iron fist letty. Surveyed at the time of the murders was in prison. A good friend of mine gerard hurt. Open up a spot on avenue and was sending yellow chop nelson sepulvado apparently took over while his brother lenny was in prison and felt that gerard her in crouching on beekman avenue so an aca force or discipline. What have you. He decided to unleash these individuals including himself to shoot up just killing four people. So what happens is first of all is a freezing cold night. It was about ten fifteen ten twenty on december sixteenth and nelson sepulveda's who was the architect of the quad murders arrived on the scene with a francisco. Medina or freddy krueger. Guy named platin- know who's afraid of dallas angeles teza or rafael perez an individual known as crazy ray converge and. Start opening fire into that alleyway at three forty eight beekman avenue. These guys two of them jump out of a car to run up on foot. Nelson sepulveda's wilfredo dillas angeles rafael perez. A guy named crazy ray. They roll up spray. The alleyway with sixty rounds from semiautomatics wounding one person janice brewington and killing four. Cynthia kasahda emmanuel vieira one unidentified man and antony green danny. You knew answer the green and his family. His brother benjamin and his mother irene. Sh- i mean in fact they're part of your alibi. I mean again. This is the mother and the brother of victim it. It just doesn't get more alvin that right. What we learned later was that the shooter's less the apartment. Terrell blair and brenda player. I'm beating the surreal. Blair leaves his apartment and runs up to the greens apartments. Tell benjamin that something's going to happen to his brother down on the block because these guys were leaving his apartment and he knew they were discussing gerard heard his brother and those individuals around yellow chop there so he was headed up there to warn benjamin to go get his brother out of the way because something was going to happen. Siro blair has refused to get involved in this matter for whatever his reasons are. Can you tell us about that night like. Are you actually doing that evening. I was on cyprus avenue in building three seventy in apartment one gene. While i was sitting in a bedroom talking to my brother may also rest in tease. He was incarcerated at the time he made a phone call prior to me taking the call. I was inside of apartment. One be in the adjacent building. Three fifty four and they bench because well. My brother and i were on the phone. I heard shooting and it appears to me that the shooting was coming for right out front. I raised the shade from the window. And i see a girl standing right in front of the window by the name of pamela fortune. I bang on the window. I tell her don't you. Those people shooting get into building omits later within minutes. I'm getting ready to walk out the building in the vestibule. The building. I run into camp. Lena patten irene green who's crying uncontrollably iranian green because she is the mother of two friends of mine benjamin. Green anthony green. She tells me that her boy got shot. I offered to help up to her apartment. Lena pat and pamphlets and said that they were going to go upstairs so like the front of the elevator and i left him there. I really walk outside. I noticed that benjamin green was standing in front of the building in my mind when she said my boy got shot. I thought that it was benjamin. Because i knew at the time was running the streets in those days. Never had it occurred to me that it was an so. I approach benjamin. I said to him. Hey mother doesn't seem well. You need to go in there and check on your mother. He tells me my brother got shot he into buildings assistance. Mother i leave the neighborhood that night the very next day i was back on cyprus avenue about ten eleven in the morning and see that the neighborhood is flooded with investigators in cops kind of seeing that whole entire area. Yeah i guess you would have a lot of investigators and a lot of pressure get the killers off the streets or to get somebody just to make the pressure go away right and i imagine that had a lot to do with how they ended up targeting you right absolutely spot was pressured to make arrest in this case it needed. Have anything was a member of the fortieth precinct. Detective squad and he had several open pieces in the mont haven area during that time in ninety two after the murders he was assigned to the bronx jay's office to help make in the quad was under pressure. Close all these cases and so he used a lot of the same witnesses over and over again sort of witness for higher situations these but this is what offer false testimonies change for money and reduced charges or sentences for their own crimes in the quad murder case. Many of the witnesses he used to implicate danny and his co-defendants for members of the red talk the rivals. Today's orange tops. Thanks to those yellow types who read the targets of the in all had a vested interest in danny getting off the streets. There are more than facing so. Let me give you an example in april nineteen ninety-two chaplains received a call from a woman named elizabeth morales morales for by the way had worked for the Musician claim that she and her family were in fear for their lives because the simple betas were after them because they still enjoys from them. So the morales said she have an exchange for the help. She told saban's conveniently that she could provide health information on a lot of the violence that took place on beacon avenue remember under so much pressure. He went immediately to the shelter to where she and her three children were started talking to them and she said they could give them names of alleged perpetrators of on as well as several other homicides. That are taking part in the area over time so he calls him down to the da's office they give statements. Nina has providing protection. He's helping them to relocate to a motown he gives them money for living expenses. Any later moves department is working for their rat so each of them happening is a statement. One of his daughters are middle. Iris she was fourteen years old at the time of the one and she also was an employee of the top. She didn't even read english at the time but she signed a statement. He handed her. She saw danny from her fourth floor apartment window of the opposite end of the avenue. Which is where the alley was located. And she said she heard fireworks so she leaned out her window down the road rule. Fires says she can see what was going on. Now if you picture a city block. It's pretty wrong. She can see all the way down to the other end of the block in the dark. The lights have been blown out agency that janney sitting in a shooting from the car. I mean that sounds a little bit sketchy to me. Yeah i would like to actually go to that apartment in. I was funny feeling. We would know. Maybe you've already done that. We actually did do that. Jason and we stood on on the street. I'm going down the block and there's absolutely no we did it in broad daylight. There's no way in the dark of night you can. All we see cases like this over and over again where these witness statements are so easily proven to be not only false but could not be true. It's a different category from fox. Right could not be true because you cannot see from where they said they were to where the took place but that gets pretty easily glossed over and of course to these preceding somehow morales also had a son named joey around us who was thirteen at the time of the quad and he allegedly saw. The shooting is well and he by the way was written in six other cases. Let me tell you something. About the incredible joy maradas joy. Miranda's claims that went to buy it got into milk at ten thirty in the evening and witness the quad murders. In another case. He went to buy milk at three thirty in the morning. And witness. a guy by the name of rushie rice and angel cajon commits robbery and murder at three thirty in the morning at his mother sent him to go. Buy some milk in another matter. Maybe phrases case incredible around claims that he left his house to go hang out in the neighborhood at forty afternoon and wonder neighborhood so six o'clock in the morning without going home euro kid one. That neighborhood though. She is to six o'clock in the morning. We're at five thirty in the morning. You allegedly observed miami and frazier committed murder on hundred and forty and these people were just so lucky that they have the witness murder after another. That sounds like some scar solid type. Stuff lean that has cost out of the one of the state. Everyone wants to keep their home in their family. Say and whether it's from a break ina fire flooding or even a medical emergency simplisafe home security delivers award winning twenty four seven protection with simplisafe. You don't just get an arsenal of cameras and sensors. You also get the best professional monitors in the business. Dave got your back. Dan night ready to send police fire or even. Emt's when you need them most straight to your door and you know. I'm not a paranoid person or anything. But i gotta say capping a home. Security system. seven added to sense of security simply safe has an arsenal of sensors and cameras. And protect every single inch of your home and you can set up yourself in about thirty minutes. It's super easy right now. My listeners get free home security camera when you purchase a simplisafe system at simplisafe dot com slash rob. You also get a sixty day risk-free trial so there's nothing to lose visit simplisafe dot com slash wrongful for your free security camera. Today that's simplisafe dot com slash wrongful. When did you get arrested at some day like It was joe. Six ninety nine hundred eleven was on the same speed that was on the night of the murders. I'm type avenues. i look up. I see mark and he tells me that you needed to talk to me. And it's also me about what he said. Well somebody said you robbed them. When i get to the prison. You tells me that. I'm there for being manabi. And that's what do you mean beekman avenue so we got information that you was driving the car. The night of the murder me possible is thirty. Forty people that can tell you. I was on cyprus avenue that even that's impossible i was processed i was taken down to central booking and charged with killing four people and wounding someone else and i regret me granted bail. The bill is at one hundred thousand dollars. That's kind of low bail for someone who they think committed this. Horrific crime isn't it. I was able to get out. Because benjamin and his mother irene green where my rain. And as you know benjamin brother. Irene is one of the deceased anthony green and so their statement was to open statement. That i was on. Cyprus avenue in that building assisted her that evening. And then i couldn't have been involved. The judge i guess took that into consideration and granted bail. Even what i was out on bail. I visited the greenhouse. How long were you out before the trial. So i got arrested in ninety two. I got out on bail. I initially started trial in the bronx. Well at least a co-defendant the globe supreme court justice in the process granted me the bill by the way ira globerman did not believe that i was guilty of these murders. He's told the prosecution and hearing he said that he's seen the evidence the prosecution had these not persuaded that i'm guilty these murders and for those reasons he's going to separate my case from that the codefendants. He said the photo finish will go on trial. I and mr rehn calm. Because he's out on bail. He'll go trout second. That never happened. Obviously we was indicted in superseding indictment in new york county. All the charges were later dismissed in the bronx and reindicted new your county. I was reminded by snyder and that was ninety. Three at the charleston starts with a year later. We went before snyder and leslie crocker. Schneider was an animal judge. I mean she torius for doling out the harshest of sentences in wrote the book. Twenty five to life which focused on the wild cowboys. Yes she was notorious. Did anyone now that this tough judge would not be biggest. Problems is important to note that in november ninety. Three thousand indictment which forty one defendants cody shannon's and they called it. The wild cowdery trial but it was all the crimes that are taking place in that area so there was a big blanket of an indictment that the issue and all that the auditor is just one of them. Thirty two of those individuals of the forty one played out. They had guilty and nine. Dan eating one of them proceeded to trial and of those five of them were conducted on the quad. I can tell you that the wrong people that they focused on were stanley tooks heiress daniel gonzalez and danny run cone and those people are all innocent by the way addition to danny run comb. It was one guy. Wilfredo dallas angeles. We believe was a an actual perpetrator of of the quad. The that they went with was clearly wrong. How did they come to land on all five of them so the prosecution came up with this theory. That orange top teamed up with redtop in an effort to off yellow top which was totally false. In fact redtop in orange top did not get along and redtop Put a hit out with actually shot danny in nineteen ninety. I was the subject of a similar shooting. At the hands of sepulvado where i was shot six times on that same corner with the quad hatton just the before for the same reasons because i was associated with ours as we know that the murders happened on december sixteen nineteen ninety one two weeks later i held a news podgy at cypress avenue. I invited the whole yellow top crew gerard. Her benjamin green who's brother had been killed earlier was in a party with me so you know it just. It's size logic that you know i will try to ambush these guys and then be potty weeks later but ironically the people that were actually now not responsible for the quad whatnot. President or invited to the party defies logic So that was really a clear. Divide between redtop orange top but the prosecution just blew through that because they needed to join them for their case. So you end up a trial. And how did that whole thing play out. The trout began in nineteen ninety-four september ninety four. But i never for the life of me believe that the quad was something that get convicted for many reasons. The alleged witnesses stories all over the place you know they're have changed for one into the next and i knew that there was just so many people that can place on factories avid but as the trial moved along i that the waste night was pushing this forward and the way she was denying stuff. You know my hopes wendell more and more that i can get a fair trial in front of this woman. And so the witnesses got up on the stand and they all testified in one after the other. The lawyers tried their best to try to show that these witnesses were all lined for favor and provided testimony and the prosecutor's office of you know whatever reason but i predominantly wanted to hear the crew's morale of sam because i why didn't know these people. I know that we weren't friends. I knew that these people were lying. And i just knew that point. You know it's gonna come out. This is gonna come out join. Just drive that these people not this this and these people just implicating individuals here wrongfully. That was my aspiration but it didn't play out that way. They testified they gave the conflicting narratives that they gave and the jimmy still accepted. But i believe that. The jury accepted the narrative that these witnesses providing simply because the way the trial was held. They sat in this courtroom eight individuals at defense table. So try to picture this guy's in your mind this three defense attorneys as an armed camp of quarter officers and investigators and police all around the courtroom media all over the place. This eight defense attorneys. A couple of the defense attorneys had either paralegal or second chair. And there's just this big show going on about how these guys were one of the worst groups of individuals that committed all these hanes x. Join the costs up seven years. It sounds like a circus. I mean with that many people. How could you even begin. To present the cohesive defense very unusual that they would do more than five defendants together in a trial anything over five becomes super unwieldy and this was way beyond that it was a circus and the jury not hearing from the defendants in their mind. Must've said that they will guilty. They all did. Why aren't they getting up there and defending themselves. I wanted to testify. I was prepared to tell jimmy. Look i was on. Cyprus avenue and irene green and benjamin green had provided information to donald tucker. Danny's lawyer about that alibi. Donald tucker failed to do anything with that alibi and investigated further and put on alibi. Witnesses danny's behalf the lawyer donald chuckle at the time. Who was disbarred by the way six months. Seven months after my trial told me that if i force any witness to come into the courtroom to testify. That doesn't want to testify. Whenever i needed to testify they will testify for me. And i was explained to that if i do. Testify would not be in my best interest. So i decided to not to testify which i think is one of the worst mistakes i've made in my life but the trial was a fought. You have a circus trial with an impossible. Number of people at the defense table in a round defendant's lawyers paralegals yet a lawyer who is on his way to being disbarred. But the moment the moment when you were convicted what was that like. I gotta tell you that it was probably one of the worst days of my life. I mean absolutely my mother's passing and my brother. I think that that was one of the most worst days of my life. you know. I sat there and looked at. I stared at the jimmy like a blank stare. And i'm trying to just make sense of. How did they come to the conclusion that i was guilty of the quad. The reason we sat there was because of that quad murder. And i knew i wasn't guilty. I never never never would have imagined that twenty eight years later. I'm still sitting here. I knew that at some point. I said to myself you know benjamin green family come forward. I'm fortunate to come forward. And so these people. I'm not responsible for this. They can be a witness to the fact that i didn't do this and that they hasn't come. You got sent to prison. On the day of sentencing i was taking up the downstate from the bullpen. I didn't make backed iraqi xilin processing downstate within the next two or three days. I was on a bus headed towards western new york. I find myself at wendy correctional facility. I stayed at wendy for about roughly seventy days. I don't opportunity at least to see my mother. My mother tracked me down and made her way up there. And i saw mothers. And they're asked the seventy something days later. I saw myself where. I am today at attica correctional facility and i'm looking for familiar face and i run into their hamilton who i had known from right design. Who actually was a friend of my brother. He arrested things. So i seen derek and he tells me listen you gotta go to the library back then. I didn't have a clue of what the library was was going to me. And i just didn't go so five years later. I leave attica. i find myself that greenhaven. I decided that i needed to go to. The library was offering research class now. I ended up getting legal research certificate. Almost four years later leave greenhaven. I find myself at auburn. And i run into a good friend of mine. Name ship shukor. Who introduced me to other individuals that are working in the law library of doing things that were constructive and i just made a decision that that's what i was going to do that. I had to teach myself how to research understand how to seek evidence obtain evidence and present. I finally get a job in the law library around two thousand seven thousand eight and then another guy comes into the library that i had a privilege me then nelson cruz soaking about his case. He was talking about how he had a role full conviction and he had actually officer who can substantiate that. He was not the shooter in his case. Low behold how much the rise of the facility. But he's got the shoe now and he sent me a message because he heard that i was a crooked law libraries and so it gets down to the library. We all together all roughly convicted because we were all arguing actually missions. We named the group the team the team. So what we would do is brainstorm different cases one of the cases that we brainstorm was Davis supreme court case where the guy was convicted. Roughly we believe as well for shooting a police officer down in georgia and interestingly in the decision one of the judge stated was that the guy has some alibi witness who given the opportunity to testify. This should be afforded that opportunity. And when i read that that that kinda like jimmy energy gave me hope that have place me how to be given that opportunity to testify should be given that opportunity to testify So danny actually had a number of post conviction motions after gut sentenced to one hundred and fifty eight in the third to live and the first motion was a brady violation the suppression of exculpatory evidence which he lost it was another one. That was broad based on leslie. Crocker snyder failure cues herself because she had conflicts associated with the case they lost that there was abuse corpus petition brought in federal court based on the theory of prosecution which was that it was one single conspiracy which was the red top orange top combined. When in reality was multiple conspiracies. They lost that those years. You know the people that i would write frequently right was klett. Gobber giannetta stein. Ron kuby pleading with them to help me with my situation. But unbeknownst to me there was an attorney who believed in my innocence was david david. Goldstein will actually speak into glen for me. Damon tiger who was the lawyer for rafael perez and was co counsel to donald tucker. Danny's lawyer came to me and said you gotta get involved in daddy's case we actually went me and david tower up to see teza fell peres to talk to him because david was saying. That danny was innocent. And the affidavit that has assigned came about i went with him or maybe shortly thereafter but in any event in two thousand. Fourteen teamed up with two other lawyers to do what was a very substantive post conviction motion of also four forty motion and the lawyers. Were jonathan stein. Patrick joyce and in that motion two thousand fourteen. We had an affidavit from rafael perez. Tazoult who came forward and said that he was a shooter in the quad murder. Now mind you. Tessa was not one of the prosecution. Defendants for the quad murder. He was actually at that joint trial but the prosecution did not claim he was associated in any way with a quad shooting. But it turns out that taza was a shooter and francisco. Medina also came forward aka freddy kruger and he also signed an affidavit and said that he was a shooter in the quad murder. Also somebody the prosecution did not target as a defendant for the quad letter. Also wanna put something. That i think is very interested. In nineteen ninety-five. There was individual by the name of row walkies who was indicted by federal prosecutors in southern district of new york along with several others. They charge seventy murders freddie krueger. Who was actually one of the participants in this quad was charged in that indictment as well in nineteen ninety five. The federal government had yet to declare whether or not there was going to seek the death penalty in that case decided to become a federal cooperator in nineteen hundred five. He admits the federal government that he was involved in the quad murders in that trial. Rela vargas testified about being the driver and being in the neighborhood around the corner. When the shooting took place and was aware of the details of it and knew that freddie krueger was involved knew that tessa was involved knew that nelson sepulveda's involved and knew that platinum was also involved and says that danny had nothing to do with the quad murder so we had those three people who were all involved in the quad murder all people the prosecution did not target as defendants in the quad murder in came forward and they said unequivocally that danny was not involved. That really should have been enough to get either an exoneration or a hearing where they could have testified in front of the court and the court could have heard from them. The judge actually denied us even hearing on that motion. There was other things also that were raised in that motion. That were very powerful. There were six alibi witnesses. That came forward and just to harken back to what danny was saying a bed. Those were witnesses that placed him at that apartment one g on cyprus avenue over a block and a half away from where the quad murder took place at the time that the shooting occurred and those witnesses prepared affidavits and we filed those with our four forty motion as well. Some interesting features also is david. Tighter wrote an affidavit and said that teza rafael perez had been telling him along from the beginning that he was involved in the quad. Murderers and that danny was innocent. But david towered couldn't reveal that information because he was defending tazoult and he obviously couldn't raise that information implicate him on something. That's client did that. He wasn't charged with but tazoult only allow david tagger to come forward with this information because justice demanded it and that gives you a sense of white. David tiger was up in arms about this fact that danny was erroneously placed in the quad murders. Not only during the trial but also afterwards why he came to me. Why so adamant that injustice happened. That danny needed to be exonerated. David goldstein. Also filled out an affidavit that was submitted in that for forty motion and talked about donald tucker who was danny's lawyer and said that he had revealed to tucker that there was an alibi and irene. Green benjamin green had provided information to him about alibi and donald tucker never brought that evidence forward and one of the claims in that four forty motion by the was ineffective assistance of counsel for tucker's failure to do anything with that. Alibi investigated further input on alibi. Witnesses on danny's behalf so unfortunately in two thousand fifteen judge fitzgerald who got assigned to the case wrote a very bad decision denying us on all grounds and not even giving us our day in court. And that's what we're basically at now where we're continuing our investigation. We're trying to shore up additional aspects of the alibi. Were looking into taverns in. We're at a place right now where we're trying to get him back into court with new stuff and one of the most important parts of this whole case is in the targeting of danny basically to get him off the street and i think the witnesses they used. I mean. The josh never seemed to acknowledge the fact that all of these people had a vested interest in having input put away and that was something that just was never brought to light. And i think that that's sort of argo. Going forward is to show. That they all had a motive. We have people with no incentive to live at. It cleared him. So i think we just need to sort of parse out the facts and separate them con- logically logically to see wiring the situation just as any sense. It just doesn't make any sense. And so many of the people that danny reference there people that we've had on the show people that i consider to be friends and most of them have been exonerated by now or at a minimum freed and yet he continues to go on with. Danny i mean what a what an inspirational guy you are. You were convicted of a horrible crime. That you didn't commit killers. Were allowed to remain. Free and new york city suffered as a result taxpayers. Continue to pay for your wrongful incarceration and you continue to pay with your very life and all of it is something that should outrage every body of good conscience. The good news is we're here. We're shining a light on it. We have glen and farah and a whole team of people and i think. Hopefully we'll build a new legion people with some of the information that we share today. And how can people get involved first of all they can write letters to the manhattan district attorney's office to sivan's junior on acid. They'd be sent to the integrity unit. And that they re evaluate the case we went to the integrity unit by the way and they didn't give a shit making go to their local government representatives in their districts and they could say that this case that bothers them and ask those people to get involved in. Maybe write letters to the. Da's office on their behalf. There's also a petition. You can sign on change dot org so please scroll down to the bio and get involved. Now we turn to the portion of the show. We call closing arguments. First of all. I think our distinguished guests all three of you farah roster for being here for having his season. Thank you glenn. Garber might pleasure. And i'm glad that you're featuring this case we really appreciate it and of course. Danny we're gonna get to you last because that's how closing arguments works here. The show is that we always save the best for last and But first of all. Like i said i just wanna thank you for being here. Thank you so much and we're gonna keep fighting for you so now. Closing arguments is where. I turn my microphone off. I kick back in my chair. And i asked each of you to share your final thoughts with our audience. I thank you so much jason for having us. Thank you for taking the time to. Here's dani story getting to know him money as many people as possible here about the justice he is already spent twenty five years in prison for a crime. He did not commit. As you've heard there's no there's so much evidence supporting his claim of innocence and statements of the actual perpetrators of the crime to the people who are with him at the exact time of the shooting is clear that he was not near the alley when the shooting occurred in fact he was on the phone with his brother who was incarcerated at the moment. The shots were fired. Any ranji when it happened. He yelled to his friends to come inside then he saw the of one of the victims actually hugged him consoled her six people have signed affidavit stating the danny was with with them when the shots were fired the all signed statements saying he did not commit the quad murder he had the misfortune it having a lawyer who did not call these witnesses alibi. Witnesses at trial. Despite his repeated requests he also had the misfortune of being tried in front of a judge who was predisposed to not liking in as we later found out in a book authored after the trial with no evidence. She blamed him and his co-defendants for death threats. She and her family received during the trial he had. The misfortune of being targeted detective was determined to close his cases as quickly as possible. And as we've discussed concerns about detectives use of witnesses in this case an found a pattern of misusing the same over and over his made promises to those witnesses and they often received reduced penalties for their own crimes in exchange for their false testimony. Most of these witnesses were members of the rival organization. They had just getting off the street so glennon are really committed to helping him. Uncover the truth in this case. Getting danny as well as the families of the victims the justice they deserve so this case is a debacle of justice. And there's exceptionally strong evidence of innocence. That normally would be enough. To at least get an evidentiary hearing to be able to open the door to the court and establish through live testimony the exonerating evidence and we unfortunately had a judge who didn't care when we brought the evidence forward in our post conviction motion in two thousand fourteen. The decision of the judge wrote was basically focusing on non subsidy matters to deny us even the hearing that we needed to establish danny's innocence. We are hopeful that maybe with a new. Da in manhattan or with additional evidence which were developing right now and getting back into court. We will get a fair hearing if we have to go that far and we'll get a judge who's actually going to care and hear the evidence because we do think that once we ultimately get our day in court. Well we can bring those witnesses forward those true killers who actually admit to the crime and the alibi witnesses who never been heard by fact finder. Once we're able to bring those forward in a fair environment where optimistic. That danny is finally gonna get exonerated ayman and now danny over to you for closing arguments. Thank you so much. Thank you so much jason. Forgive me the opportunity that i wanna. Thank glenn gaba rosina the exoneration midget forgiving me. This opportunity for believe in my innocence or not giving up on me while noxitril my life difficult situation Being in prison is hot enough in prison for crimes and doing life for a crime that you didn't commit and you know in the memory morning and you don't have a date to be released from this. Hell it's pretty. It's pretty hard to swallow weighs on my aunt. Joan's it makes me make bad decisions. I makes me lose my temper and you know it tested my faith. It says my my mental forty two. It really doesn't mean a in affects a lot of other aspects of my life and my personal relationship with my family and friends and it's just not right. And i know that most of the decisions that i make obviously influenced by this incarceration but my aim us to prove that ultimately one day that can described and that there is more than enough evidence to substantiate defected economics. Crime and i had hers. Those who have better you know come forward. Come forward for that evidence you know. Think about what it would be for us. Sit in prison for twenty years for crying and think about what it would be for benedict when your brother or sister. Anybody that you've been close prison twenty years knowing that the person in person what does the wayne robson. That's not. That's not an easy thing and i think sir anybody is not something that anybody go through and you know. This is a difficult system. The justice system is not just you know the justice system is about. Who have the wherewithal to see. If you have the money. You can locate what you want to need. It appears to be in the evidence. You know the first of some reason the undermining and look for ways to discredit the Something but i've faced in two thousand fourteen when they motion was filed that might be half based on actual incident or just by the needle. Gerald undermined the evidence Overlook the fact that. I was sitting in prison for crimes commit and did away with me. You know that was wrong for those reasons. You know among others hindsight as hard as i fight to prove that you know i been around my family and friends and did prison so rot away for something that i don't forget to give us a fantastic wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps. And i'm a proud donor to the innocence project. And i really hope you'll join me in supporting this very important. 'cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to innocence project dot org to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team conner hall. And kevin mortis the music and the show is by three time. Oscar nominated composer j ralph. Be sure to follow us on instagram. At wrongful conviction and on facebook at wrongful conviction podcasts wrongful conviction with jason flom production lava for good podcasts in association with signal company number one

danny nelson sepulveda danny rincon benjamin rafael perez benjamin green irene green lenny donald tucker Danny bronx washington heights redtop mark tablets gerard Clinton garber Danny rincon attica prison jason flowers Christopher robinson
The threat of white nationalism

PRI's The World

47:03 min | 2 years ago

The threat of white nationalism

"Support for the world's podcast comes from legalzoom with over seventeen years and more than two million customers. Legalzoom provides helpful support legal advice entrance. Parents you for business owners more information at legalzoom dot com slash world. What New Zealand is teaching us today on the world. I'm Marco werman. Well, the attacks in New Zealand prompt the US to get serious about white nationalism. I'd like to see some kind of quivalent to what the state's -partment has for designating foreign terrorist organizations. Also, Patricia Kuma was arrested after she climbed the statue of liberty day was not Tom for me to be discouraged be swayed in a different direction. This was a mission a mission to protest immigration policy plus five years ago today, a Crimean landgrab Russia has proven that it is willing to use force to take territory from its neighbors and surf music with roots in the Middle East. Those stories and more today here on the world. I'm Marco werman. You're with the world. Thank you for making it here. New Zealand is a country looking for answers this week answers to questions raised by the deadly attacks last Friday onto mosques in Christ Church. Here's prime minister just into our Dern today. The public rightly are asking right now is why is it? And how is it that you should end currently able to buy military style semi automatic weapons in New Zealand, and that's the right question to us. Our government is already promising to announce changes to New Zealand's gun laws and response to the attacks. Another related question raised by the attacks should countries be developing a strategy to fight the global rise of white nationalism. Some countries are doing that. But many are not the Sufen center here in the US analyzes emerging threats and global security, and they argue that the federal government government's generally need to address right wing extr. AM specifically white nationalism with the same focus as they address other areas of global terrorism. So what would that look like calling Clark is a senior research fellow at the Sufa center. There's multiple pillars in laying out that kind of strategy. The first is I'd like to see some congressional hearings on on the topic. Just speaking personally, I've been called to testify on the threat posed by south jihadists, maybe three times in the last year and a half. You don't see that same sense of urgency with right wing extremism. At all. I think there's also a funding issue in terms of countering violent extremism programs and other programs aimed at preventing terrorism. Those seem to be earmarked specifically for for terrorism that's related to Jihadist groups and not for right wing groups. And then Lastly, I think these are really at kind of the higher Schettino level. I'd like to see some kind of equivalent to what the. Department has for designating foreign terrorist organizations. So whether that's the FBI taking the lead or the department of homeland security some domestic agency that's able to do the same thing for domestic terrorist groups is it possible to rearrange funding at the federal level like the global war on terror still kind of can trigger authorization for use of military force around the globe. So why can't those funds also address white nationalism? Yes. So there's always a lag effect in dealing with us when you look at the amount of analysts that are dedicated to focusing on kite or the Islamic state compared to right wing nationalism. I think it's probably extremely disproportionate. It's not a threat. That's emerging the threat is here. It's right in front of our faces. And we need to wake up to it sooner. Rather than later are there countries that you see the that are doing work on this that that you think they're they're models are that we can actually the US can actually learn from. Yeah. I think both Germany and the UK have recognized how. -nificant this threat is and are starting to shift resources in that direction. I know that in Germany there are plans to increase their ranks by fifty percent for researchers that are studying the the right wing threat domestically. Similarly in the UK there's been an eighty eight percent increase in counterterrorism operations as part of investigations into four right extremist activities. These are countries that we have long standing relationships with. And I think I think there's a lot that we could learn in terms of best practices from what these countries are doing and again, putting the pieces together because this isn't an issue that just affects the United States or Australia or the UK. This is a global movement just like salvaging hot ISM. And we've really been slow to recognize that why do you think the US has been slow to recognize that I think there's a lot of probably social political and cultural reasons why why we've been slower to recognize the threat of right wing extremism. But that's not an excuse. Particularly given events of the last year. I'm talking to today from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I live in squirrel hill. I've lived there for ten years. And so that's where the shooting of the synagogue happened yet the tree of life shooting. So this is this is something that's impacted my life personally. And I, you know, I know for fact because I talked to the researchers regularly that they believe that this is an issue as well. I think again, I mentioned the lag effect we need to start moving on this immediately to get the proper balls authorities in policies funding streams in place to tackle this threat. Head on I'm in nine eleven was profound on a shock to the US system. Is it possible? Do you think the track any form of extremism without overlay with race and political identity? It's tough. I mean, especially in this country where we really struggle with those issues. That's apparent right? And so there's a these kind of political landmines that people are wary of stepping on. And so I think we have to have an honest Frank discussion, and that you know, that should really. Not only occur at the grassroots level. But there's gotta be some leadership driving that from top. Colin Clark will leave it there. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. That's calling Clark with the Sufen center. This weekend yellow vest protests in Paris, turned violent. You can still see the damage done to shops and restaurants in the city centre. And the country's prime minister has responded that starting next weekend yellow vest protests would be banned in certain areas. The anti-government protests began four months ago over the rising cost of living. Cindy palm is a journalist based in Paris. She was at this weekend's yellow vest protests there the eighteenth weekend of these protests. What is the latest Sunday? Like, what did you see when you were covering these demonstrations yesterday to say that during the week seventeen which was the week before protesters' were promising to come out in full force. They said that week eighteen was going to be up -solutely huge. And it was we have not seen this kind of violence in weeks. And the reason why it was. So big is because this marks the nearly four month anniversary since the Elvis protest began, and it also coincided with the end of the grand debates that French president Emmanuel Macron was having these series of public meetings where people could air their grievances. So it was a very violent Saturday in the type of violence that we haven't seen really in a while. So it will mccrone was wrapping up this kind of listening tour of people's grievances across France, there's violence in Paris. How do you explain this violence has sounds somewhat unprecedented even for these elevates movements? Well, a of people simply say that neck will solution has not been enough the protesters, they say that the reason why they are out there week after week is because they say that life is a struggle that they are being taxed too much, and they feel that netphone is the president of the elite. They say that he's not Representative of them. But even before week eighteen though the protests seem to have died down a bit. But this possibility. Protests. You've really saw so many more people out there. So you mentioned a number of coincidental things that may have pushed these numbers, especially high this weekend at these protests as for the trend of the numbers dwindling over the past let's say seventeen weeks doesn't that suggest that that the protests was kind of dying down it did especially after MAC clone gave his new year speech in which he denounced the violence at the protests on that we have to remember that the majority of people of yellow vest. Protesters are not bought land. But there is a handful or a group of people. They call them cast Sarah in French who are not necessarily yellow vez protesters. But are there amongst the crowd that do 'cause the violence in a burning building is that we've seen in the throwing of rocks? So Kosovo means breaker like people who break things is the yellow vest movement. Are they distancing themselves from these Cusco? There does appear to be a separation between a. Staff in yellow vest protesters. But when you're talking about hundreds of people in thousands of people out on the streets. Sometimes it's a little hard to differentiate between the two of them. It's interesting though, there have been some comparisons to the occupy movement here in the US and twenty eleven Occupy Wall street protesters addressing important issues about class and economic inequality, but at the same time as with the Elvis movement, there's no clear leadership and that large umbrella issue of economic inequality ends up by kind of drawing in a whole host of grievances. And the whole thing gets kind of unfocused. I is that a fair comparison. I think there are definitely similarities because this is a movement that started on social media. And you're right. There is no clear leader. This is something that has spread through social media in has really taken off and as for the grievances. You're right there isn't one grievance. It's people who have a whole host of issues, although the one commonality is that it is harder for them to get five. I think for them they're hoping that this will lead to some sort of change. But if. You talk to them too. They don't really have faith in the maximum government. Either Paris-based Reporters Sunday palm. Thank you very much. Thank you tomorrow. Brazil's president Shire Bolsonaro meet someone he's often compared to Donald Trump both conservative populace both prone to making outlandish and hateful comments both with associates in legal trouble. Brazil in the US are also the two biggest economies in the Americas. So tomorrow at the White House, the two presidents will presumably have plenty to discuss as we hear now from Rio base reporter, Catherine Osborne, the backdrop to this meeting is a significant increase in alignment of Brazil, United States relations. Trump didn't pay much attention to Brazil until bozo. Nado who modelled his campaign after Trump's was elected. And now the Trump in the Bolsonaro administrations have been talks coordinating on issues like commercial relations in on Venezuela. And so about business ties, even though the US, for example. Number two destination for Brazilian exports. There were trade barriers and now the hope is that right wing alignment can make this smoother and then on Venezuela, which is another big issue in both administrations their support for the departure of President Nicolas Maduro, and there are also conflicting factions about whether outside countries should remove Mobutu through military force. So some impulse not as government said in the past they'd support military intervention. And that's something the US on void of in Israel, Elliot Abrams said last week he'd support so Trump and Bolsonaro see eye to eye on a lot it seems you've been spending some time talking to Brazilians on the streets of Rio. What did you hear from them about this reliant between the US and Brazil on you know, the things you mentioned trade, politics and Venezuela? Yes. So I talked to Brazilians who going about their work day in central Rio. And as far as trade goes, they understand that the US is a big economy and Brazil is still coming out of a deep recession. So many of them were cautiously optimistic about that. On venezuela. There were conflicting opinions I talked to one bulls not a voter a credit card machine. Salesman named Ali Sean that he when he was getting a snack at a hamburger stand up on the blue think shoulda do you say which? Stone is he's saying that a transition away from doodoo invincible, and it's the right decision. But also, he's happy with this more moderate stance of non military intervention. Another person who I talked to who did not vote for both NATO. Amending Lucci is twenty six was very critical of the possibility of military action because for him it represents Brazil bowing down to what the United States wants. So I think the relationship in Brazil and the United States is ridiculous right now. I think most of is like a puppet Florida United States, the everything that the American government would ask him to and even as well. Experience is just an example off that. So Catherine I want to take a step back, and let's look at how and what Bolsonaro has been doing now that he's been in office for nearly three months. The the big headline in Brazil's that people close to him have been hit with several scandals. What are those about right? So corruption really has dominated the headlines in these first days of the administration Bhosle, no son, flop view has been in the news a lot for two scandals. One involves illegal money transfers from an aide of his and the other involves him employing the wife and mother of an accused death squad leader and then amongst both not his cabinet there to ministers who've been implicated in scandals in which they've been accused of illegal campaign finance schemes as well all these scandals right after getting into office. I mean the details differ of sleep. But again, another set of parallels with Donald Trump. We're seeing a lot of people in his orbits Narda getting investigated right away. Both in has passed a decree making it easier to buy a firearm and many in Brazil's congress want to pass a law to widen access to carry them last week. There was a school shooting. What happened there in what are people saying in regards to this law? It was horrible too. Young gunmen killed eight people in a scoring south bottle and in a conversation that followed about gun control. You started to hear arguments around it that are similar to US arguments. Which is that a school shooting isn't a reason to tighten gun control. But rather to loosen it and that a teacher, for example, if they had been armed could have prevented this, and it's interesting because there was this other massive shooting in New Zealand last week and the response there has been so different than here in Brazil reporter, Catherine Osborne in Rio, thanks so much. Thank you. I'm Marco werman, and you're with the world five years ago today this happened in Moscow east getting you cut your, but this. Russian President Vladimir Putin addressing all the big players in Russian politics and the nation from a hall inside the Kremlin. What could I used to get a job? This was March eighteenth two thousand fourteen and Putin was announcing Russia's annexation of Ukraine's Crimean peninsula chunk of land about the size of Maryland sticking out into the black safe. You've gotta see what scooping. At the end of the speech. Putin sat down signs some documents. And voila you the anthem according to Russia, the Crimean peninsula was there. Accept the annexation was declared illegal by the international community, including the United States. We've continued to be deeply concerned by events in Ukraine. We've seen an illegal referendum in Crimea, an illegitimate move by the Russians to annex Crimea and dangerous risks of esscalation. Russia wasn't done though, as you might recall Ukraine had been going through a political revolution. At the time. Ukraine's Kremlin-backed, president Viktor Yanukovych had been ousted and even after a new election. The country was not stable in the middle of all that Russian soldiers dressed in unmarked. Uniforms entered eastern, Ukraine and working with local separatists started a war that continues to this day five years later, more than ten thousand people dead more than one million people displaced one of the biggest crises in Europe since World War Two. So where does the US stand in all of this today, and why isn't the annexation of Crimea and the war in eastern Ukraine scene is a bigger deal. That's what I put to Kurt Volker. He's President Trump's special Representative for Ukraine ago. She actions. Well, it is a big deal. Russia claims to that exist five years ago no-one accepts that claim the European Union, and we and others have placed sanctions against Russia as a result of their invasion occupation and claimed annexation just recently, March fifteenth the euro. Union candy. United States are coordinating the announcement of a few additional sanctions as well to Mark that we still refuse to accept this claim annexation by Russia. What are sanctions actually accomplishing? You know, the fact that Russia continuously seeks to have them removed is an indicator that they are having an impact we see that Russia's unable to expand some of the businesses and relationships that it would like to do that is putting some pressure inside the system on Putin. I think he has become more or -tarian over time the more restrictive. So I think these sorts of things are reflecting that there is pressure inside the system because of sanctions, and I think it's important that we keep them in place and also reach out a hand to Russia and say, we are willing to talk. We want to see peace reestablished. We want to see the territory of Ukraine restored wanna see the lives of these people especially in eastern Ukraine where there is active fighting every day. We wanna see this people's lives improved. Again, see the lives of people in Crimea improve. Again. So you said in there one of the goals is the territory of Ukraine should be restored. I mean DEA think the sanctions are going to actually get Putin to back out of Ukraine. I think it's a combination of things sanctions are part of a wider strategy. Not the only thing what we tried to do it. I talk for a moment about eastern Ukraine and dome bus, which we're fighting is actively going on and also I should say with the annexation claimed annexation of Crimea. Russia has alienated the people of Ukraine you've seen young people, especially Ukraine, but the population as a whole become more unified, more nationalist, more pro Ukraine. More anti Russian more pro Europe. These are breaks in that civilization that are a consequence of Russia's attacks. And I think the longer this goes on the more it will create that schism between Ukraine and Russia. And I think that's the reason why there is still hope that at some point Russia will want to end this. And when they do we in France and Germany does prepare. To be as helpful as we can to negotiate peace. So that the territory can be restored Ukraine. The Trump administration has been sending arms as you know, to Ukraine is this a proxy war between the US and Russia. I would flip it around. I would say that the previous administration had a ban on sales of lethal defensive arms to Ukraine, not a ban. We hadn't played for all countries around the world in one place where they needed it. Most with are actually being attacked by Russia. We had said, well, we're not going to help you with lethal defensive arms out. I think that made a lot of sense, and I that has now been removed. So we now have a normal defense relationship with Ukraine as we do with lots of countries, we're speaking with Kurt Volker, the US special Representative for Ukraina Goshi nations. Let me just take a moment. This is President Trump talking about the fighting in eastern Ukraine in an interview with ABC. This is back in two thousand sixteen before he was elected. And frankly that whole part of the world is a mess under Obama with all the strength that you're talking about and all of the power of NATO and all of this. In the meantime, he's going away he'd take takes Crimea. He's sort of. I mean, she said you might recognize that I'm going to take a look at it. But you know, the people of Crimea from what I've heard. Would rather be with Russia then where they were. And you have to look at that. Also, so embassador that was Trump three years ago. Does the president today think Crimea should be a part of Russia? Well, as you saw the secretary of state Pompeo on behalf of the Trump administration issued a formal declaration saying the United States does not and will not recognize Russia's claimed annexation of Crimea. So that issue has been put to rest there. There is no question about what the US position is on this. So here's the thing about Crimea, as you well know, Vladimir Putin sees it as a Russian possession. It's in the narrative of Russian sovereignty and Russian culture and writing a historic wrong and lots of Russians love him for that. When he announced it in parliament, there were lawmakers who were crying that Crimea was back. How concerned are you that that dynamic is just unsurmountable will? I think in the short term what you're describing is exactly right. President Putin is going to hang onto Crimea as tightly as he can he. Remember has said that the collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest tragedy of the twentieth century. And the way he has designed his rule is that you're going to have strong leadership. Putin is at home and a nationalist outlook abroad, including a right of say over its neighbors had over former Soviet territory. Ultimately, however, like the Soviet Union itself that is not sustainable, the people of Crimea do want to be in control of their own destiny again and not subsumed fully into Russia. But but in Crimea, there are a lot of people who want to be part of Russia, and they would say their lives have improved since Russia annexed the territory there may be some. I'm not sure I would go so far as to say a lot. And I would certainly say that that number has gone down over time because the the nature of the system that Russia has put in place in Crimea is in fact, very restrictive very repressive. Would you say you've got a tough job? You know, I wouldn't say that. I think the if you say that the definition of success is to get the territory back tomorrow, then okay, that's not going to happen. But what we need to do is build a strong and sustainable position for the United States and the transatlantic community and for Ukraine. So that you crane becomes a successful democracy successful economy is secure country. That is a part of Europe. And as long as we build that strengthened sustainability then time is on the side of Ukraine getting it's territory back. And I think we've done a good job at that. I think over the past few years, we've built a stronger and more sustainable position that that will lead to the results over time Kurt Volker, the US special Representative for Ukraine negotiations speaking with us on the fifth year anniversary since the Russian annexation of Crimea ambassador. Thank you very much. My pleasure. Thank you. I'm Marco werman scaling. The statue of liberty purposely getting detained by is activists are putting themselves out there for their causes. Actually it globally speaking. We live in the most contentious time in recorded human history as civil resistance goes stories of modern activism. That's just ahead here on the world. I'm Marco werman. And this is the world where a co production of the BBC World Service PRI and w h here in Boston when it comes to symbols of American freedom and democracy. The statue of liberty is way up there. So eight months ago on the fourth of July when a woman tried to climb the statue it made headlines liberty island got evacuated the woman's goal to shine a light on the detention of children arriving at the US Mexico border. Patricia Okumu has since been found guilty of trespassing and disorderly conduct tomorrow. She'll learn her punishment the wolves Rupa Shenoy has her story. It was breaking news just into CNN. Liberty island is being evacuated now because of a person trying to climb the statue of liberty. You're looking to live picture Titian a coup a personal trainer and naturalized American from the Congo. Seemingly just hanging out under lady, Liberty's upraised. He'll officers in helmets secured by ropes and. Harnesses crawl toward her authorities forced to evacuate thousands of frustrated tourists. We planned it and everything on the fourth of July on purpose because I'm very upset. I had the children in mind and children alone. In a way, a coup had been heading toward this moment. Since Donald Trump was elected president. She had never protested before I will work from like fast during am in the morning until about ten thirty eleven go home sixty now and come out with my banners and signs head to the Trump Tower. In fact, I was interview by the host of the young Turks. He was the first thing you can sit to discover me, you're the one protester I found here. What are you protesting against Trump? Looking move says protesting became a calling for her. I was having nightmares about the children cages haven't been born and raised from the Republic of Congo. I use my background as a sort of encyclopedia. To become a check of Dallas on what I'm witnessing around me on July fourth coup joined a group called rise and resist protesting on liberty island with a banner that said abolish ice AKU went her own way. I didn't tell the soul, and I was not intended to tell a soul because I knew they was no time for me to be discouraged. I'll be swayed in a different direction. This was a mission. That's how she ended up under lady Liberty's foot and then arrested for trespassing interfering with agency functions and disorderly conduct Okumu says she figured that something like a random lady, climbing, the statue of liberty would get under the president's skin, and I succeeded Trump the next day on July fifth winter rally and mission. Today on the Sanshui liberty. You see the guys that went up there. I wouldn't have done it. I would've said let's get some nets. Let's wait to she comes back. So the president was addressing my action. That was a success. Well, good. I mean, I'm glad that she sees that kind of attention as something that validates her behavior and her act, I think, I don't know Erica ten with Harvard School of public policy. She studied civil disobedience and says we're in a new era actually, globally speaking, we live in the most contentious time in recorded human history as civil resistance goes in the last two and a half years ten with says the US has had more acts of resistance than ever before. And now some wonder if protests have become to normal to be effective in this media age with its rapid news cycles China with says, it's hard to tell what will break through to make change. It is true that one person can make a difference. And in fact, I would argue that in this. Instances person has made a difference. But that doesn't mean that she alone can win keeps trying in November Okamura attempted to climb the Eiffel tower she wanted to urge the United Nations to investigate US immigration policy in February. She was in Austin, Texas, scaling a four story building that houses a nonprofit that runs shelters for detained. Children crews repeated recidivist climbing is making my job that much harder. But a coup attorney Ron Kuby says she's taking risks that other people can't or won't history is made by people who are willing to take risks. They're not the people like us who sit around and jitter, they're the people who act, and yes, sometimes they're a little kooky could move was convicted of the charges from her time at the statue of liberty. There has been ab- recommendation that she spends three months in jail. Kuby says no one's serve time. I'm for protesting or trespassing at the statue of liberty before certainly the Trump administration has decided to treat this case in a fashion different from all other cases, and that clearly is a manifestation of the Trump administration's anti immigration stance. All they do is raise her profile and confer upon her political prisoner status spokesman for the US attorney's office in the southern district of New York where a coup moves charged declined to comment as she faces for sentencing hearing tomorrow, a coup says, she's ready to go to jail, but hope she doesn't have to. I was judged by the law of discount, which is embedded in what supremacy if that had been judged on festivals by the people, then I would have been found not guilty. All that matters coup says is that she's on the right side of history for the world. I'm Rupa Shenoy a new. The film follows another sort of bold experiment by immigrant advocates. I'm twenty two years old in stone document he league. I don't care. What you call it, really. Just other words for free. That's from the infiltrators tells the story of two young undocumented activists who were detained by immigration agents in two thousand twelve but here's the twist those two immigrants got themselves thrown into detention on purpose. We came out of the shadows and stopped a few deportations on then you plan get into our detention center and give people on the activists goal was to gather information from detainees to help get them released. And they concluded that could only get that info by being inside the detention center themselves, so Marcus the Vetere and Vajrayana Martinez turn themselves in to immigration authorities. They were sent to Broward transitional center a sprawling four profit facility, pumpkin. Oh, beat Florida where they started organizing. The detainees waiting on the outside to coordinate. The campaign was undocumented activists Muhammed at delay. The film documents how this was all changed with a mix of on camera interviews and reenacted scenes. I asked I believe he why he and his colleagues took such a big risk when they didn't have papers. We grew up in this country. We speak two languages, we can sort of navigate in and out of spaces that maybe our parents, and maybe other folks that are more vulnerable than us in the community can't, and so it's because of that privilege that we sort of saw it as a responsibility to let us go to the source of where people are detained instead of sort of sitting out here. One by one by one fighting these deportation cases, let's just go right to the source yourself. Mohammed your undocumented born in Iran. What was your role in this effort to what did you do? Exactly. We sort of internally with joke with marquan video that they had the easy job. They were inside on the outside. We were answering calls from seven AM to eleven PM. We were coordinating with family members. We had a whole team with the national migrant youth alliance people all over the country on so my role was sort of the coordinator between both worlds inside out man to ensure that Markel vedic got out safely. So here's a moment from the infiltrators. It's you envy, that's. Vivid Yana Martinez, and you're kind of explaining what you do. You know, once it was like, okay. This case is solid. We started an online petition every time somebody would sign the petition. There was an automatic Email that was generated that was sent to the personal Email of someone that worked at immigration. We had probably four thousand signatures in just a period of twelve hours. Muhammed what made the undocumented activists like Marco MVP who voluntarily went into detention, wh what made them so certain that they'd be able to get out themselves because there's this one moment where Markos in you know, the detention center, and he sees board with everybody kind of look the red and yellow and green little pin next to their name. And that suggests when they're going to be deported and Marco has kind of this like, wow, I didn't know this was happening really the confidence for us came from the place of having done cases, just like our own where as undocumented youth. You know, we had done a whole campaign of civil disobedience, and what we found is that the more public. You are about your status on the more out there. You are. Safer. You are any of us can get picked up any minute. And it's better to always be a phone call away from a group of folks that can help you then to sort of be without someone to reach out to and even if there is an imminent deportation. You're still giving advice on what to do. This is a moment in the infiltrators where you're on a phone call into the detention center, a giving advice for detainee who is about to be deported. So tell him to try and refuse the board. Let's do this strategy as Andy that he did. Which was he told the pilots that he was afraid his legs in danger. He refused the ward. So that's a moment from the infiltrators were speaking with Mohamed Abdillahi, he's one of the main characters in the film. So I don't want to spoil the end of the infiltrators for our listeners. But I do want to follow up on one character cloudy. Oh, Rojo's one reason this project actually began is because row houses son asked for your help in getting his dad out of the brower detention center, your pressure campaign one row houses released, but now he's back. In detention again, what happened Plotto was released August of two thousand twelve and he was sort of doing regular check ins every year. He will check in with is. There was a period of time hit an ankle monitor. He's always complied with all of his check ins and so this year, February twenty seventh. He had a checking it was three or four days before the sort of Miami premiere of the film infiltrators, and when he went into this check in they detained him, and you know for us. It's a very clear sign that has retaliation by the Trump administration just in so much that the local ice officers there that they normally deal with told Claudio that this decision comes from above us. And so he's at the Krome detention center, it's Dettori detention center. I think it used to be the Cold War military base. Now, he's fifty three old man. He just welcomed his first grandchild two weeks ago. There's no reason why he should be in that detention center. Other than the ministration is trying to use him as a vessel to send a message to all of us that we need to be afraid. I alluded to. This earlier President Obama was called the deport her in chief the headlines under Trump eclipse, the Obama period though in reality, what has changed? They are using the same system that the Obama administration built they may be using parts of it more efficiently. Other parts of it not. But what's really changed under the Trump administration? Is that people are finally opening their is we always joke that people finally care about us as immigrants under the Trump administration because he so vocal about what they're doing so vocal about separating children. These are all things that we witnessed under the Obama administration, and we were sort of screaming into the void. We had to literally send ourselves into the tension centers to be able to show people the type of people getting deported Muhammed. You took partner really daring pretty brave kind of guerilla style campaign to raise awareness of all these things facing undocumented immigrants as an Iranian. Do you worry that you could be deported? I'm gay in from Iran. I think I can I can I can manage a pretty solid campaign on my behalf should the administration. Try to come after me or should I end up in a deportation proceedings? What I believe in is. I think the same agency that I have in the same privilege. I have it's my sort of responsibility to be more out there. And also for us to be able to find other ways to help other people. Everyone has a reason why they deserve to remain in this country. And I think, you know, I'm sort of a walking example of that Mohamed Abdillahi one of the main characters in the film, the infiltrators. It's about a group of immigrant advocates who get apprehended intentionally by immigration agents to help others get out of detention centers Muhammed. Thanks so much for your time. Great to meet you. Yeah. Thanks for having us. Okay. Let's go back to the case of cloudy Rojo's. He's the Argentinian emigrant who is also one of the main characters in the infiltrators. And who as we heard a couple of minutes ago was detained by is last month. Just just before the film's Florida premier. I says it plans to deport row house on March thirtieth despite the fact that he has no criminal record and has lived in the US for almost two decades. This morning. A call came into our studios him still age when their mother being need by got up ordered ended the needle in chrome service processing center, that's the automated recording that signals that call coming in from a detainee. It was cloudy a row Haas reaching out from the Krome detention center near Miami medical. Hello. How are you cloudy? Oh, they're doing good immediately. That's okay. So do you think you're being detained because you shared your story? No pants trying to think. I don't think it wasn't retaliation for the film. I know it was. The fact that I took part in it. They took that as an offense and they detained me in retaliation. I mean, the judge didn't even give any specific reason for it cloudy as we see in the infiltrators, you're really close with your family are you in touch with them now, and how are they dealing with this generally? Don't him by term. The new Joe because she's was I am in communication with my family, and they're up for this fight, especially my children. So yeah, we're in touch and my kids are open to doing anything. They can to keep the story in the press to help me win. My case Klaudia, how would you advise other families with loved ones in detention about how to cope with these really stressful moments. I don't know. Maybe he well like you said this is a really difficult situation. But this is not a time to crumble and let someone else decide your future. It's a time to unite with others and stand up for your rights. Don't give up and do everything you can to make sure your rights are respected. Klaudia row has much grass. Yes. Thank you very much for your time. That was immigrant activists. Cloudy, Aroha speaking with us from the Krome detention center outside Miami Rojo's is a protagonist in a new film. The infiltrators about undocumented activists who get inside detention centers to organize detainees. We reached out to ice for their response to our story is spokesperson Nestor Iglesias emailed us to say ice could not comment on row houses case, hoping you had a good Saint Patrick's Day. It's always good to celebrate American ties to Ireland as long as we're celebrating those ties. Here's the world's Alison Eto with the little known story about a group of people here in the US who helped the Irish during the height of the potato famine. There's a sculpture in Middleton. Ireland not far from the Jameson distillery made up of twenty foot tall steel eagle feathers arranged in a circle it's meant to honor historic ties between the Irish and the Choctaw nation of Oklahoma. Yep. The Choctaw and the Irish have a bond that goes back more than one hundred seventy years it dates to the potato famine in Ireland one of the worst famines in history over two million people died and it prompted one of the first worldwide relief efforts highly to-. My name is Judy Allah in the historic projects officer at Choctaw nation of Oklahoma. Judy Allen grew up with the story of how the Choctaw people heard about the starvation in Ireland thousands of miles away, and they donated one hundred seventy dollars the equivalent of about five thousand dollars today. The society of friends commonly known as Quakers today had tell the story of. The starving Irish during the year eighteen forty seven. And when the Chuck toss heard it, even though it had only been sixteen years since their own trail of tears when he were forcibly marched from their homeland in Mississippi to modern day, Oklahoma, Dr impoverishment and starvation where many of our people died along that trail of tears are talk talk people fail. Such tremendous empathy. Alan says that experience moved the Choctaw to pull out what little they had and donate Etta made headlines in Ireland Hughes historian, turtle Bunbury, it gets a lot of coverage in the British and Irish press at the time because it's so extraordinarily that said is donation from very far away. But people who you know, didn't have anything. Mmediately obviously connected to autumn to the Irish experience at the time. Some in the United States attributed the Chuck Todd generosity to their exposure. To Christianity was. In Oklahoma newspaper went so far as to say, the Choctaw 's were repaying the Christian world for bringing them out of quote, benighted, ignorance and heathen barbarism, but in Ireland turtle Bunbury says people saw the ties to the Choctaw in a different way because of their treatment by colonial power. A lot of other Irish were neglected very badly treated pushed the west in to the barren lands in the west of art and dispossessed of their own ancestoral lands. It's very similar story in in. That regard historians on both sides have written about the story, but it's remained largely history Intel fairly recently in the past few decades, the relationship has been renewed in the nineteen nineties and Irish delegation walked the six hundred mile trail of tears from Mississippi to Oklahoma to raise money for world hunger. A few years later, the Choctaw did a hunger walk in County Mayo. And then there's that giant set of steel eagle feathers dedicated to you. Years ago in county cork for the world. I'm Alison Hedda. It's weird. How sound associated with surfing in California had its roots in the Middle East and Mediterranean? We're thinking about this. It's tributes coming in from around the globe fans, remembering the king of surf guitar. Dick, Dale to understand the connection between the search sound and Middle Eastern stick. It helps to remember dick DALE'S younger years. He was born Richard Anthony months sewer right here in Boston his mom was polish. His dad Lebanese. So Richard had this wide world view. But it was his father side of the family that would really impact what Richard monsour would go onto musically. Saving Cuevas as a reporter in southern California and met and interviewed dick Dale several times. What did dick Dale tell you Stephen about his upbringing musical background heat spoke about those days Marco, very funny. And he came from a pretty musical family, mainly it was an uncle of Dick's that really introduced him to instruments like the food and the Tara bocci a percussion instrument, and I think it was a grandmother or an aunt and introduce them to the piano the. Piano was really his I love as well as the drums that very progressive kind of sound. You can hear it in his guitar playing throughout his career was interesting so piano, which is very much a western instrument hitting all those notes on the chromatic scale the food which is kind of a Middle Eastern lute, which kind of captures those little micro tones that you hear an Arabic music. We actually have a really early recording of miserably the song that he made famous this one those from nine hundred twenty seven. I guess you can kind of hear some of those nuanced notes in there that the dick Dale would pick up on later. It you told the story Stephen back in two thousand ten of how dick Dale turn this on miserable around making it his signature surf tone gets played slowly the but to duck. But I said that's too slow. And I thought of Jean croup is staccato drumming where he went wonder if people wanted people want, so you go decadent dot NET. So I wind putting his looting that rhythm. And. Done down down down down down. They're going to get like that. Well, there you go Marco like dick could, you know, really cut a set it best y'all have to keep in mind that when he recorded that song. He had started playing it in this gigantic ballroom in Balboa here in southern California down on the beach, all these surfers talking five six thousand people, and he was going for a really big sound. And that the kids could really feel and he talks about how young when he started playing that song man, the people would just like levitated. So he might play miserably let two or three times hundred show and the kids just went crazy. Yeah. I mean, dick del just heard a riff it's aimed in went with it. Thanks to Pulp Fiction misery who is. Now the stuff of legend. Even if you don't know the backstory as you've told her what what is a dictator kill deep cut that you like that is not miserably like where else who is talent, Sean. Well, I would like to throw to something. From the same years Pulp Fiction it's from his nineteen ninety four album tribal thunder. And it's the first track it's called nitro. And it's kind of a cousin to miserably like really proposal really per Cussing. It's dick kind of looking back on that sound. But also pushing it forward and making it this whole other new kind of beast. I see nitro is like the miserable of the latter half of his career after it was largely relaunched after the successful Pulp Fiction. Well, here's a little nitro. That's freelance journalist Steven Cuevas joining us from station K PCC in California hats off the dick Dale today. And thank you Steven through time. Oh, Marco is a pleasure. Thank you so much. Music from the late if dick Dale. He are public radio international.

United States president President Trump Marco werman Russia Ukraine Trump administration Crimea Ukraine President Putin New Zealand Kurt Volker Brazil Trump Brazil Representative reporter Middle East dick DALE prime minister
Lucido, Lansing lobbyists, primaries, bonds, w/Tim OBrien, Sam Inglot, Shimekia Nichols

Michigan Policast

54:08 min | 1 year ago

Lucido, Lansing lobbyists, primaries, bonds, w/Tim OBrien, Sam Inglot, Shimekia Nichols

"The presenting underwriter of the Michigan podcast is progress Michigan providing a strong credible voice that holds public officials and government accountable and assists in the promotion of progressive ideas. He is and you know you can't trust this present do what's right for this country. You can trust he will do. What's right for Donald Trump? He'll do it now. He's done it before he'll do it for the next several months. He'll do it in the election if he's allowed to. This is why if you find him guilty you must find that he should be removed right matters and the truth matters. Otherwise we lost is a week with two Democrats getting a national stage the prosecutor who ensnared Donald Trump in a web from which only. Mitch McConnell's hyper partisanship can rescue him and Michigan's governor cap to respond to trump's post impeachment state of the Union address. This is the milk water and fidgets spinning pending addition of the Michigan. PODCAST or all about Michigan Policy and politics and the national surveys impacting our pleasant Peninsulas Zorg. I'm Christine Barry. We've got a couple stories about ethics and integrity and state government with more charges of sexual misconduct lodged against ham-fisted Larry O.. Senator Peterloo CDO and there is a petition drive to reform. Lobbying in the capital will talk with Sam. England progress Michigan about their citizen led constitutional amendment. Drive I'm amy. Amy Care Harden will meet an urban David taking Goliath a small community groups challenging Detroit Edison's future plans and getting results. Shoemaker Nichols from solidarity will join the POD. Early voting is started from Michigan's Presidential Primary One candidate. We know we'll still be in the hot would Michigan's votes are counted his former former New York mayor Michael Bloomberg running on the slogan Mike. We'll get it done. I'll talk with senior adviser Tim. O'Brien of the Bloomberg campaign. And what makes going to get it done for Michigan and in our quick takes this week Tesla fixing the damn roads with borrowed money tax payer handouts for GM and the latest political polling in Michigan. Let's start though with our good buddy Senator Peter Lucido when last we chatted he was facing an investigation for pinkish statements made regarding a twenty two year old Capitol Reporter. He imply she might want to get it on with an entire classroom of high school boys or vice versa. Amy Now the Republican bad boys facing more formal complaints one from one of his colleagues colleagues in one from an outside source. What's going on with our boy? Peter yes State Senator Mallory MC moral out of the Detroit area maybe any sexual harassment complaint against GOP. Senator Majority Whip Peter La- Saito close on the heels of a claim from twenty two year old journalist reporting on his inappropriate remarks remarks to her made in front of a class of high school. Age Boys MIC moral says Lucille Mehta lewd suggestion while touching her inappropriately Little bit too low on the backside Macedo categorically denies the accusation but today Chad livengood of crain's Detroit broke story that there is a third woman with the story story identical to Senator Rick Morals. This kind of offensive behavior is rarely a one off. It's almost always a pattern. And we're seeing a pattern here and you know the reason you get those patterns and a lot of times. The reason that people speak up is because they're angry that instead of owning it you've denied it and and she's Osborne is quoted as saying he's blatantly denying something that's identical to what happened to me. That happens to a lot of women you know. They're willing for whatever reason to move beyond what has happened. But when you start to deny it at that makes them angry and then they joined the sisterhood. They come out and tell their stories race. This is by no means that offensively CDO his behavior is apparently reprehensible but this is predates him for an awful long time. It's been going on forever. It's sort of like those saying well. They had the casting couch at Hollywood for all those years and nobody complained so Harvey Weinstein shouldn't be convicted. It's the same sort of thing. Not as serious certainly as wide. We Know Lisa as far as we know but it is something that you know catch up with the Times man this. This is very yesterday behavior. It's just not tolerated anymore. Exactly I'm I'm sixty exte- one years old and I know that when I was younger in my twenties and thirties and in the workforce we could not speak up We would get in trouble with personnel department for speaking up and calling out sweat entre inappropriate behavior fan of watching madman when that was on. AMC and that was the behavior in the sixties they've got up had whole episodes Built around that theme you know. Basically women were there to please them in protest ornaments. Apparently now in last week's pod one of our comments about the situation rubbed a listener at the wrong way in our discussion of the Lucido situation. There were comments misogyny in some other public figures among those other public figures former state senator and current political podcasters. Mr Bill Ballinger. He someone I've known and worked with sporadically for almost fifty years. Now Mr Ballinger was very upset with what we had to say. He responded in an email. And here's what he he said. There's not one iota of evidence in my life personal or professional that. I've indulged misogyny of any sort. Mainly because of incapable of it. Most people would describe me as absorb rather than as someone who thinks or speaks of women disparagingly or in a negative way for the record. I was the prime sponsor in the Michigan legislature of the equal rights amendment when Michigan was one of the first states to ratify it. My staff in the Senate was one of only two. That was all female by chief. Deputy whom I pointed at the Old Department of licensing and regulation under Milliken Alikhan was a well known democratic woman and all three of my deputies. Were women the only State Department so structured. I recruited a record number of women for Governor Milliken to appoint dozens to you state boards and commissions putting an all time high number and percentage of females in those positions. Mike papers documenting. All of us are in the Archives of the State of Michigan. You can check it out and I would just add one thing I had to look up the word Orios. I don't even know for pronouncing it correctly. It means having her showing an excessive or submissive fineness for one's wife. I'd I'd like to respond to that because I'm the one who made the comment when I was talking about the subtle misogyny that you see in reporting bill ballinger was one of the people I mentioned and to be fair. I did not give any examples. This was my opinion based on having followed his work over so many years because his writing his punditry his commentary take that kind of thing a couple of things first of all. I'm glad that he wrote in. That's what we want. People to do is respond if they find something that they want to challenge us on or add to whatever and I recognize that he did all of those things and all of those things that he mentioned are very much appreciated but the reason that I still say. Hey there is some subtle misogyny at work here. Is that when you use a word like petulant to describe a governor as woman governor and you have never ever use that word on a man. That's misogyny and I went back and looked guys. I looked for comments on verge. Minero on Andy Dillon. Both men in leadership positions that could be accused of doing dumb childish stupid things. Now we're going to get milk from them. AM I. pollock ESTA gmail.com people and never did you see commentary like that. In fact the only criticism that I really saw verged Venero who could fairly be called petulant because he was always shouting at something was that he wanted to build sidewalks in an area. That Bill Ballenger didn't think they were necessary and Ballinger said that they would only be used by power walking women from Moore's part so this isn't the first time he's been called Or that the word misogyny has been directed at him because it was directed at him back then to when your complaint about something Burge Venero wants to do involves a particular kind of woman and this is why subtle title. Sexism is so difficult to deal with because it doesn't mean that you hate women it doesn't mean that you're anti woman it just means that there's a difference there era that's negative. It's harder to document. It's harder to call out because people say it's being taken out of context and I would reference the study that I cited last week. There'll be more studies that I can link to in the show notes but it's a damaging thing and so yes I I say that it is there a recognized that he probably. Oh he doesn't hate women that's not at all what I meant and I didn't mean to undermine any of the work that he did but it is there and I will just keep pointing to the word petulant in pointing to phrases like power walking limit as my evidence for that having said all of that I would recommend people listening to his podcast is pretty darn good vine on I tunes arrive at a different kind of ethics and behavior issue at the Capitol is is the relationship between lobbyists and public officials. Michigan has the worst record for public accountability of any state in the nation. It's a huge scandal waiting to happen. Part of the response is a citizen petition. Drive to throw some sunshine on lobbying of public officials progress Michigan which is a presenting sponsor of of the podcast is leading an effort to amend the state constitution to create some safeguards. Now there are a handful of things in this amendment that they're proposing the no one that has come under the most criticism so far is that it bans gift giving you know and that includes meals or gifts of any value by lobbyists to lawmakers but it also includes you know adding a cooling off period. So you can't go right from being a lawmaker to being a lobbyist it would require that lobbyists in public officials does make public record of all of their communications. The definition of lobbyists would be expanded. So there's really a number of things that are included it in this but rich studly at the Michigan Chamber of Commerce has already come out and said this is you brought. It would prohibit a cup of coffee and no one abandoned their principles for a cup a coffee and it should apply to union lobbyists as well as corporate lobbyists. I I mean. It's not really substantive criticism of the proposal here because a proposal applies to everyone and It's not banning just cups of coffee. I think it was Michigan Campaign Finance. It's network reported five hundred forty thousand dollars of lobbyists expenses in the first seven months of twenty nineteen and food and beverage. So we'll have more information. Listen about the proposal and I will also include some tweets that happened yesterday between rich. Dudley and Lonnie Scott which this is really interesting? And we'll have more links shouts and we're joined by. Sam England the Deputy Director of Progress Michigan Sam. There are a lot of political reform. The issues out there that you could have taken on. Why was lobbying reform at the top of the list? Why is that what you're going after? It's two fold one. I think it's a pretty pretty common sentiment that people don't have a lot of faith in our public institutions anymore they think elected officials are corrupt They think lobbyists are running the show uh-huh and we think that this type of lobbying reform to hold law-makers accountable bring more transparency to the lobbying process in opening the window to some of those backroom conversations can go a long way in helping people have faith in these public institutions. That are so important to everybody's this daily lives. Secondly lobbying reform is necessary because frankly lobbyist run the show in lansing when you combine term limits. So we have this constant Kronstadt revolving door of lawmakers and you combine the millions of dollars that are being spent on a regular basis by a lobbyist obvious to influence our lawmakers. We thought it was necessary to kind of rain. In some of that culture and restore people's faith in government restore some transparency transparency. To Michigan are worse kept secret that we have the worst ethics in transparency rankings in the entire country all effort to make a government that is more accountable to the people and decisions are being made that a reflective of the will of the people rather than the ways of lobbyists one of the key reforms within your proposal is ending the revolving revolving door between lobbying and legislating. Something with term. Limits is a real problem. Because you've got people that come to lansing and they're almost immediately auditioning for jobs. There's a lobbyist. There are four real main points to our our proposal and they're kind of finer details under each one but I'll hit on those because I think they all build on each other nicely late and are really kind of equal weight so hitting on that first one ending the revolving door we are proposing a two year cooling off period from the time when public officials leave office and when they can become lobbyists. Like you said well I mean I think that there are quite a few Elected officials who who are auditioning for new jobs as lobbyists in the waning days of their terms of great example of that would be Brian. Kelly with what. We saw with develop initiatives around earn paid six hundred minimum wage. The Snyder Administration did exactly what business lobby including the small business association wanted them to do by going forward with this adopted amend gutting type strategy and then Brian Kelly wound up working for s Bam as the president literally days after the New Year So that's one two year cooling off period ending the revolving door the second thing is requiring more transparency and public disclosure in public communications. That's aimed at influencing elected officials. So that's you know radio ADS billboards. TV COMMERCIALS ADS on facebook. That say call your Senator Call All your state representative. Tell them to vote no on this tell them to do x Y and Z. And this is something that you would affect progress Michigan but we think that there should be a public disclaimer on all those types of material bills in reports made to the secretary of state as well so that people can know who it is. That's trying to push them to contact their lawmaker. The third thing is someone us in acted in a few states already but it's total gift-ban between lobbyists decline ans- lawmakers and their families right. Now we have situations where lobbyists are spending thousands of dollars on individual lawmakers over the course of the year wining and dining them to influence them on public policy. Frankly Brinkley's legal bribery and it's not just limited to food and drinks. There are concert tickets. There are trips. junkets things like that and we just think it's better to and that type of practice so again lawmakers were doing what's best for their constituents not basically decisions off of who got the best perks from which lobbyists and the last piece of this. The fourth one is really kind of original concept that I think will actually help improve some of the abysmal transparency rankings. We have here in the state. Ah We need to get foyer reformed on but we think that this could be a good complement to that effort as well. And that's a lobbying walk so right now lobbyists required to file at least two times a year. And it's there's not much information. There were proposing is a system where both lobbyists as well as lawmakers lawmakers will have to report their interactions with each other when they met which client the lobbyists is working on behalf of the General Broad Area Korea of topic discussion. In what having lobbyists and lawmakers will allow us to do is to have to records to compare and contrast that way we can spot. Check these things in look for holes in any of the reporting so those are kind of the main floor pieces of this and we think that they would go a long way in improving transparency and accountability in lansing and across state okay. Let's just talk the logistics of this just a little bit. You and I have both been involved in statewide ballot campaigns before had to collect a lot of signatures right. Now you've got because because of the various parts of state law you have to collect about five hundred five hundred fifty thousand signatures and you've got about four months to do it. That either takes one a lot of volunteers in the thousands or to a lot of money in the millions. How are you going to do it? We think we can do with both ways. I mean we're not leaving anything off the table. Paying a signature firm is definitely definitely an option. We knew that this was going to be a popular proposal but the amount of phone calls and emails and even the comments comments sections which are notably a toxic place on the Internet have been overwhelmingly positive so we think that there could be a very strong volunteer effort associated with this campaign. We've also been talking to some of our partners in the progressive space as far as organizations. Go we're getting a lot of support bears. Well this will obviously be your thinking. This could be over over a million dollar campaign. We know groups like the Chamber of Commerce will probably fight us to the nail. We're working on on building the infrastructure around this campaign and we thank thank God despite the Tall Hill that we have to Klein. Were convinced that we're going to have enough friends in support within the coalition. Get that done if people want to help out how did they. We're GONNA touch with you so they can go to close lansing loopholes dot com and they can join our email list of. We're still working out some of the behind the scenes infrastructure to start building a volunteer base within the coalition. But that's something that we're working hard to do right now and like a set of already got a handful of folks. Go input in there who called our office today out of the Blue those lansing loopholes dot com. You can sign up there when the citizens group takes on the lobbying core in lansing it is is definitely David versus Goliath. Saved the best of luck to you. Thank you so much. They've gotTA collect more than four thousand signatures day. Once they hit the streets in the petition hasn't even been and formally approved it but the State Board of canvassers and they're going to be doing a lot of it in the dead of winter. It's going to be a very very big challenge. Because they have to come up with really about five hundred fifty thousand signatures to make sure they've got the four hundred twenty five thousand signatures that are valid. Well and all of these things that they wanna do could be done legislatively but don't hold your breath for are there. They won't be early. Voting starts this week and Michigan's presidential primary. Maria's absentee ballots start showing up in mailboxes. New polling from Baldwin Wallace College shows that Michigan's delegates are very much up for grabs and also this shows a lot of very bad news for Donald Trump. The poll focused on Midwestern states including Michigan which swung trump in two thousand sixteen. But it doesn't bode well for him this time. Only twenty seven percent of Michigan Women would consider voting for him and fifty three percent of the respondents said they will vote for whoever is the Democratic nominee which may include include viral. Meme of his opponent being broken. Roomba going around in circles. Also I found this very interesting that ten percent of trump voters will dump him. I'm depending on who the Democratic nominee is so That's I don't know whether they're talking about Bernie or whatever So that's just remains to be seen. Ain't you know the numbers. I really like to go through this whole because some of the things they founder absolutely fascinating. We hear that the mid West is really up for grabs and it was close. Last Avenue closed this time but these numbers from a very large wasn't online polls. We have to be a little careful. There was only people that had Internet access that participated but they swear on a a stack of academic bibles that the sample is good. For example in Michigan. It shows that forty six point eight percent said they would vote for the Democratic Party candidate. Thirty three point nine percent on overall for trump and you've got a large never trump component as well the never trump component in Michigan. I almost certain vote against Donald Trump. No matter who the Democratic nominee is for president forty nine point one percent in Michigan. That is a huge hurdle for him very very big number when you get into issues listen motivation Again it all numbers. That favoured the Democrats the number one issue in Michigan according to the poll really. There's three issues that matter. The number one in the polling a slim margin was economic issues which they always are that works to the president's advantage to avoid but even in Michigan you've got the situation where a lot of people are underemployed or working two jobs jobs number two is healthcare and this is amongst all people all voters who was twenty six percents of that was the number one issue for them and number three was security issues terrorism from foreign policy and Border Security and right now I don't know if that works for against trump but certainly the healthcare works for the Democrats Economics. Who Does it's it's it's really hard are to read depends on where you're at In the spectrum economically the other thing that was really interesting as of this point the favourite in Michigan and the surprises me in the in the the primary where we are now. Voting is Joe Biden with twenty seven percent then yet Bernie Sanders at twenty one point six or thirteen point six on sure it a ten point six the reason this is significant now you see sanders surge national. He's got a great organization in Michigan but because of early voting people are voting. Now this is about about a primary or the votes won't be counted for another month. Actually about another five weeks but a lot of people are voting right now. I know I'm not going to and my ballot shows up in the mail of Wade into last second suck but the fact that Joe Biden starts out in front is a big advantage for him because early voting and Bloomberg's not in house numbers Bloomberg's in the numbers but he is deep down. He's at nine percent. I think Bloomberg does better though in those general election polls you're right. Christine Bloomberg had the largest margin barely four four in a head to head with trump. But the thing can't take into account because it hasn't happened yet is what happens in those first four contests were Bernie Sanders right now. Apparently is leading in both Leioa in New Hampshire. If you believe the polling Joe Biden is leading in South Carolina who knows what's going on in Nevada and then you've got Super Tuesday week before our primary all of those will certainly we have a big influence on what happens in Michigan but for now it's it's a biden looking state. Everything is really confusing when you put these polls together like I'm looking at this one poll from Des Moines Register. CNN survey two weeks ago fifty. Five percent of the Democrats want someone who who is more moderate than most Democrats seriously then why sanders surging. It's it's bizarre. You know like I said you have different polls at work care but it's just hard to. If so many different choices you can have like a radical someone who is going to radically change things or you could have a you know Joe Joe Biden. He's just kind of going to return to normalcy. That's his campaign or you can have the combination. I think you'll when we talk with Mike Bloomberg's people in just a few moments it's I think you'll hear that Bloomberg believe he kind of the combination of somebody who's going to shake up things a little bit but at the same time he has a record of getting things done the other number in this poll. I think's really significant as United States. Senate right now. Gary Peters Forty one point nine John James Thirty two point two a huge twenty-five percent undecided. That is a challenge for Jerry. Peters that definitely is one of the things that I saw it was a separate poll from this one That Biden supporters Are More likely to go with the second or third choice Whereas like Andrew Yang that? What's really surprised me was that his supporters are Yang or no one pretty much whereas Biden flexible? So that's a good thing for Michigan that if they don't get their first choice they'll go with the second choice if you watch television even occasionally. Yeah I've seen ads for one of the candidates. Michael Bloomberg has already dropped nearly seven million dollars in Michigan. TV Ads and his ads take direct aim at Donald Trump. I am running to defeat. Donald Trump twenty sixteen. I warned that Donald Trump was a dangerous demagogue when the Republican Congress wouldn't hold him accountable. I want to work helping run winning campaigns and twenty one house seats it's time for the Senate to act and and remove trump from office. And if they won't do their jobs this November you went I will. I'm Mike Bloomberg and I approve discussing. It always helps to have fifty five billion dollars. If you want to be president of the United States I was looking at the numbers from acronym some folks track spending on social media and in the last week that they reported Mike Bloomberg sped in one week on facebook and Google. Seven point. Seven million dollars. Tom Steiner the other billionaire. One point six million Ryan trump spent eight hundred thousand Bernie. Sanders was the leading Democrat at five hundred ninety one thousand dollars in other words about eight percent of what Mike Bloomberg sped. And that is it's showing up in the numbers is he's just inundating the world it's full employment for TV stations in political consultants and one of those people who's a political consultant of the campaign a senior adviser. Tim O'Brien in New York and he joins us on how Mike Bloomberg clients to close the gap in Michigan Tim. O'Brien as you know the key to winning the the presidency is goes right through. The mid West goes right through Michigan. Donald Trump carried the state by ten thousand plus votes in the two thousand sixteen election. What changes how does Mike Bloomberg win? Pennsylvania Win Michigan Wisconsin. So you can win the White House. Well I think there's a lawful lot of voters in all three of those states but specifically in Michigan who feel it see right now they they WANNA get rid of Donald Trump. But they don't feel like they've got a candidate in the Democratic Party that they can fully get behind and and I think for pragmatic progressives who want someone who's already governed complex city. WHO's had a lot of accomplishments as philanthropist Anna business person and who cares for progressive issues and has actually delivered solutions on a wide variety of fronts? Whether it's job creation health care infrastructure or or. They have that person Mike Bloomberg and they have a person who can actually beat trump in the general election. I think for for people who don't WanNa wake up next November with Donald Trump still in the white the house. Mike Bloomberg is there man and we've got a very robust ground operation in Michigan and in in across the whole country. Already frankly to help make voters odors aware of Mike. Bloomberg's full story His history as a self made man somebody who got through high school and college bootstrapping himself relied on loans to get through college while he was working as a parking lot attendant and then went on to very successful careers obviously. A businessman philanthropist. Mayor that that he's someone they can can safely and reliably back in this year in the most crucial election in our lives to be Donald Trump in the campaign. You've probably been the most aggressive of any of the candidates in taking on trump directly on a variety of issues tactically. Why did you decide to to focus specifically on the the president in that really kind of ignore the the opposition in the primaries? Well because I think first and foremost Mike Bloomberg sees this election is a referendum on the competence competence and the character of Donald Trump. We WanNA ask voters in Michigan if they feel better off now than they felt three years ago and if they don't why we have a good idea why they may not feel that way and what kind of problems they want solved. We want to focus on meeting the needs of voters addressing the problems. They're they're concerned about taking the battle directly to Donald Trump because we can both at the primary level and at the general election level simultaneously I think Mike Admires all all of the other Democrats who are contending right now. He just isn't confident that they have the wherewithal and artillery and backgrounds needed take econ trump and beat him so he doesn't feel he wants to do anything to divide the party he would really like to unite people and he's a person I think who's is a good bridge between both the progressive and moderate wings of the party. I think Democrats are GONNA win. They can't focus and beating up each other they got to focus on trump. And that's what might decided to write out of the gates you mentioned in your first comments infrastructure among other things Michigan has become sort of the poster child for bad infrastructure. Thanks to the water crisis crisis in flint but also our governor campaigned on fixing the damn rose which are the worst in the nation and has got nowhere with her Republican legislature. So far we've got P. Faucet contamination. Why should Michigan voters believe the Mike? Bloomberg's the person is going to respond infrastructure We've just gone through three years with a president who keeps promising a trillion in dollar or two trillion dollar infrastructure program. And so far he's come up about a trillion dollars short. That's yet another broken trump. Promise you know. I don't know a few saw this week. But micro out a new infrastructure plan that is a trillion dollar plan that includes rapid transit through education of roads and bridges and tunnels and build on his experience of having already delivered around things like this as the mayor of New York and the infrastructure problem album by the way. It is obviously bleak in Michigan. But I've been in Wisconsin Pennsylvania Arizona and North Carolina as part of this the My most recent trips I'm about to Texas and Florida and in all of those states Welt infrastructure is a mess and one common thread uniting. Those problems in every state are Republican and legislatures who have decided to make the delivery of what we once considered to be commonly value public goods whether it's infrastructure healthcare quality education education to be the sort of idiological ping pong balls that they can have fun tossing back and forth while clearing the Democrats out of any say in actually really delivering these services and under serving voters. So there's a real problem at the legislative level with I think a Republican chokehold on the legislative process and one of the things that Mike has been doing. A candidate is supporting get out the vote campaigns in every state and also down ballot races in every state as part tired of his presidential bid. All of that is part and parcel of of his desire to build a machine that will benefit the party to build a machine that will be able to put it. The foot of whoever whoever the Democratic nominee is so we can beat Donald Trump and we can also revivify the party and we also have a meaningful role in states. That need to make sure that the legislators they're still don't deprive voters of things. They really need like infrastructure. The only way to do this is to get back to just good. Old Brass tacks democratic policies like having a thoughtful but robust several government. That knows how to reasonably use the the regulatory and financial half of the federal government in partnerships with the best members of the private sector to deliver these things to to to to voters and residents attendance. Because it's things they need they're not they're not placed playthings another issue on jobs. It's been forcefully a outlined. I think more so. Oh by Andrew Yang than anybody else in the campaign but people just talked about it a lot as well for the midwest isn't increasingly manufacturing is becoming much more capital intensive and much it's less labour-intensive which means fewer jobs producing with the same output. How D- How does the Bloomberg Administration address this transition and our economy? Well well that's a great question because like your infrastructure question you noted that the president trump promised to one trillion dollar infrastructure plan. He also promised when he ran back in two thousand sixteen that he was going to bring manufacturing jobs back to states like Michigan. Thirty was gonNA also bring back farming jobs and and lead this broader rebound bound in in what were once great middle-class jobs and of course that hasn't happened and instead he's appealed to people's racism awesome by blaming it on immigration and Mexican Brown Mexican immigrants coming over the southern border or the yellow peril coming out of China. When the real reason? A lot of this has happened is that we have innovation an economy in motion. That has left some folks by the wayside and are responsible for the sidey focuses on meeting those those actual realities Through things like job training social safety nets and other tools we can use to help people transition to new well paying paying jobs and and be realistic about the jobs. We're not going to get back. Donald Trump has not been realistic about that. He's lied to his constituents and he's essentially actually run one of the most successful cons in modern times by promising to voter that he cares about their problems in the workplace but he really doesn't and that's been evident didn't I think throughout his entire presidency. One thing I find really intriguing here. You hear a lot of grumbling of course about billionaires trying to buy the presidency and all that but one thing that I find really different different between Bloomberg and president trump it seems. President trump is using the White House to line his own pockets and Mike quite honestly. He's got so much money. The teak probably does is better than the United States anyway. There's really no point in him trying to light his pocket through the garden because he's already ranked the ninth richest man in the world. How much more is there? Yeah I mean and you know in so many ways you know Mike Bloomberg is everything. Donald Trump claims to be. But isn't Mike is an authentically successful businessman. He is an authentically successful multi-billionaire clean-air he's a philanthropist to actually donated billions to society. It hasn't looted his own charity. Like trump has he's been a successful public servant and his interest. I didn't Public Servant Service. Trump's just use the oval office as as as a as a personal walmart. You know Mike sees this election as the culmination Asian of his life's work. I think you can buy exposure with the kind of wealth. Mike has but you can't buy an election if you could simply by election Tom Star wouldn't be pulling in the single digits as you know Mike Bloomberg's already pulling extremely well in Michigan and that's because voters what is real story as he's not just a rich guy on a vanity run. He's someone who cares about solving elving people's problems and getting it done and a lot of the issues that he cares about doubling the minimum wage improving education addressing immigration flaws. Better K K.. Through twelve education more affordable community college accessible high quality healthcare aren't typical rich guy issues. He's bread and butter issues for working class people and middle class people and he cares deeply about those trump has never cared about those things at all. The other thing is Mike Bloomberg is actually created. Aided jobs you know he's he's created tens of thousands of jobs at Bloomberg L P he created over five hundred thousand jobs as the mayor of New York and he did that to to a mix of innovation. He brought new industries into the city and he also put a safety net among under other people who are struggling and I think he wants to nationalize those things as president is an Tim. O'Brien thank you so much for taking time to join us. Thank you all real pleasure. One thing that's intriguing about this campaign so far in Michigan only two candidates have stayed offices Elizabeth as with Warren Open one up a long time ago and Bloomberg opened one up and of course Bloomberg spending all the money in Michigan right now everybody else is just kind of treading water the Sanders Enders people the Grassroots Campaign for Sanders. Probably the best organized but when it comes to formal structure Mike Blowers way ahead of the rest of them. I think you're gonNA see the numbers really shift hole up between now in the middle of the really interesting thing for me about that interview. And he was in Tim was talking about pragmatic progressives. Who Want someone who has delivered and they kind of referred to Bloomberg as the safest man to vote for our away? I really thought that that was like a spot on message for them. You know and he. He talked about Mike Not Wanting to be a divider in the Democratic primary and so on a Mike Bloomberg could win a general I think but he would never win Democratic primary. That just wouldn't work for him. So it makes sense that he jumps right into the general now what he brings to the general. I'm just not sure I Zeke and I. I may have said this last week. But if you're a voter who wants that pragmatic person and you. You know you want somebody who has what you think is business acumen who can be a really practical governing type person. He's attractive in that way he's also doesn't have to worry about going dollar offer dollar with Donald Trump and I personally think he's the one who scares trump the most because he's Donald Trump's strong points in his mind at least are his business background and his ability to raise money Bloomberg can double up on them on both of those things. Bloomberg's a much more successful businessman and Bloomberg's Richard and God. I think he peels away. That middle that group. Would you say the ten percent in the middle who maybe went with trump because they wanted an outsider. They wanted a strong man and to go in. Who Do some things that weren't typical politics? Those people who are now feeling let down or feeling like they could do better Bloomberg Bloomberg would be attractive to them I. They've never so far. I don't think anyone has seen him stammer or make the gaffes that Joe Biden has made over his in his career. See that is just a gaffe machine anyway. But he's he's overcoming it. It's sort of like Reagan with Teflon Reagan. All sorts of crazy do things that didn't really matter. Governor Whitman has long been whispered as a potential national political will star ever since her election in twenty eighteen. That chatter was elevated this week by an announcement from Speaker Nancy. Pelosi and Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer that she's been tapped to give the Democrats nationally televised response to Donald Trump's state of the Union Eurasian next month. And I think this is awesome. And I'm going to tell you why Michigan being being the battleground state that it is who is better to go up there and make the case for how Donald Trump has harmed Michigan. Donald Trump's gonNA talk in his State eight of the Union about what he knew well about himself and about probably pencil neck. Adam Schiff and he'll say all kinds of silly irrelevant Kevin. Thanks but he will talk about the economy and he's bringing jobs back and everything Gretchen. Whitmer is a great person to put up there representing Michigan representing the people. Oh who have been hurt by him and his his buffoonery. I can't help but wonder if Stephen Miller whoever's going to be writing trump's state eight of the Union speech will preemptively strike at Gretchen. Whitmer Take J. at her and and the Michigan economy or something to that effect so it makes it look as though she she is responding to that one thing that says for sure is that the Democratic Party sees her as a future star because both parties have typically used the state of the Union response. Aunts as a a sounding board for somebody who is an up and coming star in their party at least they thought was Last year for example was stacey. Abrams from Georgia. Who No question is one of the national stars before that representative Joe Kennedy of Massachusetts? I've heard that name Kennedy before Massachusetts. I'm not sure where Governor Nikki Haley. We did it for the Republicans Joni Ernst before that when she was running for the Senate Representative Cathy mcmorris. Rogers did it for the Republicans and fourteen she. She is now one of the top leaders in the House of Representatives for the Republicans Marco Rubio famously with the water bottle did it in both English and Spanish which was interesting. Governor Daniels of Indiana. And it goes back Paul Reid before he was speaker of the House. The one that really crack up governor Bob McDonnell of Virginia who ultimately was convicted of taking bribes and some Republicans in Michigan aren't taking this well and walk brought us. Some examples follow a facebook group that is promoting John on James for US Senate and these are some of the comments. They actually posted the Nancy. Pelosi's press release right on their site and these are some of the comments pretty amazing one person Ron Kuby. It's writes her and Soros are probably bedtime partners. Yuck Deborah Adams we need to get rid of all the dead people. On Wing counties voting lists all dead people voting for Democrats. Dennis Nemec wrote fix the roads. Bitch Julia McGuire useless. Pos piece of Shit Scott Got Wyler. WHO said the plan was in California New York Than Michigan? I hear the new Democrat plan is to give all illegals driver's licenses so they could participate in voter fraud and keep the workers paying for them. Carry Hook writes. It's which were not whitmer. Get on your broom and fly back to Oz. Carry Sooner Schwartz. Like I'd waste my time listening to this Bimbo. Mike Obolensky rights can't trust thing. The so-called women says perfect person to deliver a liberal response. Steve Steve Larson writes her. Next job will be working straight down the street in front of the Capitol in Lansing in a place called Omar's now for those lansing. Omar's is a topless bar and Jeddah rights fix the dam road. You lying bitch. Recall her trainer to our state no more refugees deport illegals. It's not rocket science. It's exclamation point all caps of course and a Robert. Brian Scott writes twit Mersch views. Nothing but loose fecal matter every time she speaks. I love a good political political discussion. These people are just not going to the park. That's that's some high quality stuff right there. Why goodness social she'll media they hide behind it and and they're so low information to begin with? I really misogyny I mean woman on woman misogyny. That's that's good stuff you know and Anyway so so yeah. So let's do some quick takes Walter. You Ready Yeah couple of quick fix first of all fixed the damn roads chapter Seventeen Christine Christine Governor Whitman state of the State is this Wednesday January twenty nine th seven. PM where she is expected to talk about Proposing posing a bond to get some infrastructure on your way and of course a bind would involve the state taking on some debt. The Michigan Chamber of Commerce has already expressed some support in. You know that under the right conditions this would be a good idea and because it sounds like it might be a good idea that gop and the legislature have already expressed their opposition. Senator Roger Victory from Hudsonville. He's working on a bill that would require the legislature agreement for road focused on sales that exceed one hundred million dollars and this would not get governor whitmer signature of course but Roger. Victory says the bill is to raise awareness and spur conversation because he wants a quote unquote mature conversation on the issue. And I'm just going to say Hashtag misogyny in Shirke says this kind of thing is one of the last things he would want to consider. Chatfield says I before. He's going to consider anything like this. He wants all of the gas taxes to be put into the roads which of course with take money from education. If we have a minute and I know these are quick takes but if we have a minute let me compare this to the pension obligation bonds which was proposed by West West Michigan Policy Forum at the behest of the GOP leadership last year. It was a ten billion dollar pension obligation by berry risky riskier than a general obligation John and Chatfield said I'm glad to have these different options and Shirke said we're considering every option. It's just opposition to anything Gretchen. Whitmer is GonNa do you period okay next to a few Michigan Sylla's GM more than two billion dollars. Amy How does that happen. It called mega tax discredits for a reason. The acronym stands for Michigan Economic Growth Authority but in practical terms. They often spell the fleecing of state tax payers in the past the GM hid behind confidentiality agreements on their tax deals with the state but this public disclosure of two point two seven billion tax giveaways as something new. What I find interesting thing? Is that good jobs. I really To subsidy tracker GM is usually at the top those are piecing together different communities giving tax credits. So apparently Elliott's is much much more than this been disclosed in the past the terms require that retention of about thirty five thousand employees. GM currently has about forty eight thousand the books so they could potentially pink slip thirteen thousand workers and keep their tax on us and the new deal that state struck GM will require the investment of three point five five billion over the next decade to create new job opportunities. Michigan is known for their mega-deals someday came in third in the nation behind California and I can't recall a southern state. Our final quick take. This is for people who love Expensive High Tech Toys. You will finally be able to buy and service a Tesla in the state eight of Michigan. Now Michigan's got very strange law that was passed under the Snyder Administration. The basically says that you have to buy a car from a certified dealer that that is franchised by the manufacturer. This was pushed through by the Michigan Auto Dealers Association because they are a very very powerful lobby group they have been for decades and they certainly. We didn't want the competition from Tesla which was selling direct to the consumer. It also says finally that Tesla owners will be able to get their cars fixed in Michigan again because until now Tesla was prohibited from having company owned repair facilities in the state and Tesla owner had to take their cars to Ohio or Chicago to get their cars affixed realistically. You couldn't take it to the repair shop down the street because the cars are just so different. I've ridden in their top of the line. Tesla I think it costs about eighty grand. It is is the coolest car I've ever been in. It was so much fun to drive. Of course I can't afford it. It almost drives itself. You've probably seen the videos on Youtube of people literally napping while their car drives down the freeway which is very unsafe yet. There haven't been any accidents as a result of that. If the technology is just amazing I've written and watch the car actually pull out onto a freeway pass other traffic and then get off at the exit where we wanted to get off without the driver doing thing. It is an amazing piece of engineering and finally my friends who owned Tesla's in Michigan. We'll we'll get them fixed here and if they want to upgrade and get a new one here if you recall about ten twelve years ago. The auto industry was talking about the Toyota Prius and how it was going to be way too expensive and they couldn't create electric cars and so forth. They were saying it cost sixty seventy thousand dollars in. Its come way down in price. So I imagine the Tesla will too as S. Increase their market share. The price will come down one of the challenges that the industry is GonNa have to deal with. And I've I've run into myself. I've got one hundred twenty five thousand miles on my Chevy volt old and I really need to put a new drive battery into it. It's GonNa cost me seven thousand dollars to do that. This is definitely a step in the right direction. I think for this kind of technology low. No I remain. A Chevy girl reminds me of the movie Tucker a man and his dream which is about a pro. I think his name was Preston. Tucker who had the innovative automobile right after World World War Two and he was basically crushed by the big. Three automakers did want the competition house a great movie. I remember that movie. Find it wherever it is. It's on Netflix. Show word is and make a point of watching as it's a wonderful movie in a very interesting piece of history we inaugurate a new segment segment. This week. We call work in progress stirs about our world where there's a challenge to the political or social status quo. We begin with a classic David Versus Goliath Story. Story a tiny community group in Highland Park Michigan over by Detroit is going head to head with a giant. DTE Energy and winning the organization is called Solar Solar Deity. It's a combination of solar solidarity the fight with DT began over streetlights in highland park and then grew from there. I talked we should be kid nichols of solidarity about how her group is taking on the powerful machine. Utility shoemaker. Thanks for joining us on the Pali cast. I Love David Versus Goliath stories. If you've had a two Luke Person Organization you're taking dte energy and you're winning. What is it exactly that spurred this whole battle I can go onto the creation story of solidarity garrity but I'll jump fast forward into the work from DC campaign which is galvanizing a lot of committee? Folks and EJ organizers Partners and even solidarity members to join in our fight to make sure that Allen Park has some justice in terms of the repossession of their street lights back in two thousand and eleven and to make sure that energy is safe affordable unhealthy for all of t's consumers there's always a lot of talk about environmental justice and how environmental injustice really impacts communities of color low income communities and the story of highland. Park is really kind of aquatic. When it comes to that it's something as simple streetlights? Yeah so it's as simple simple and tangible street lights but the streetlights represent a much. The bigger picture and a much stronger need to have some democracy and participation in the decision-making process and the way that communities are able to have input and put in practice self determination and where they get their energy from solidarity began with three folks down in the basement trying to figure out how they were. We're going to address the situation of the city making a decision to allow you to come in and repossess all of the street lights that were on the residential streets I with some leeway with the debt that was Dt Energy Iowa parks very poor Shuki. And you couldn't afford to keep watch on literally is a small city. It's hard hard of Detroit and the streets repossessed not just due to Either mismanagement of funds or through not having a community implem- process S. but it also was a think assemble for other folks in surrounding areas to Kinda know their place so detroit-hamtramck were even rural areas and saw the residents of highland park. Felt very left out of the conversation and solidarity was offspring of that lack accountability and ability to have input in the decision making process. And what we're talking about streetlights we're not just talking about aesthetics in your community it's also about your your basic safety fifty on the streets and you as the mother of two children are especially sensitive to having safe streets and street lights are part of that. Yeah it is it is but then also oh Masan being very young having the ability to see democracy real at realized is also just as important as having that voice in the decision-making process and having a safe streetlights is also very important as well. What are you trying to accomplish as you get in front of the Public Service Commission with your organization and Dt seeking seeking to get approval for its future plans from the state? What we're asking not to do is to go back to the drawing board and to make sure that community solar and when is included in their plan at this point there's more of a focus or the plants and the timeline in which they'll have those shutdown which is not enough even even though you're dealing with basically urban issue the response is something that goes far beyond urban energy definitely as we are having our community meetings and we're you're trying to connect with organizations like we people Michigan refining that a lot of the issues in terms of affordability and health and safety are across the entire state not just in urban areas? Now you start your very very small organization as I mentioned at the beginning of our chat yet. You're taking on one of the largest utilities in the mid west and and getting results. Are they kind of a little bit in shock. I haven't spoke directly to a DC representative but I would imagine that they are but again. It's the two of us us working in the organization. There's tons of folks that have signed onto the do-gooder page that we put up There's a lot of EJ organizations that are backing our work from ADT campaign pain in our part of our leadership team if people are interested in finding out more about organization may be helping out themselves regardless of where they are in the state of Michigan. How can they get in touch with you? So there's a couple of ways they can go to solidarity dot com the beginning of solidarity's S. O. U. L. It's just like solidarity and you can also go to Michigan Environmental Justice coalitions page. But what I WANNA push people to do is go to our do-gooder page age. We'll put links to all of your websites and how people can connect with you on our website to Michigan. PODCASTS DOT COM. So people can get in touch with you. Is this your her first. Effort is a community organizer. Work with your community to try to make something good happen. No this is my first experience organizing. But I will. I would say that is definitely my first experience tackling such a big monopoly utility company for about three years and before that I did organizing under asocial. Racial Justice. Fun Isn't it it is it is is good to be able to say what you want into into make it a reality Shiva Nichols Nichols thank you so much for your time. We will have those links on our website so people can get in touch with you and keep up the good fight. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you and that's that's it for this week's podcast. You can find out more about everything we discussed by heading over to Michigan. PODCASTS DOT COM. We absolutely welcome your feedback. You can hit us up on facebook or twitter or you can send an email to my podcast at gene mail dot com. We'll have the state of the state analysts next week along with exclusive look at the impact of UAW corruption the state's politics and economy. Until then see Ya.

Michigan Donald Trump Michael Bloomberg trump Bloomberg Mike Tim O'Brien Bernie Sanders US Senate president lansing New York Democratic Party governor whitmer United States Michigan Chamber of Commerce facebook trump Bloomberg Bloomberg Joe Biden
The 2020 Emmy Nominations Are Here!

Little Gold Men

46:17 min | 7 months ago

The 2020 Emmy Nominations Are Here!

"I'm Pooja. Patel and this is the pitchfork review. Each episode, your favorite Pitchfork, writers and editors bring you in depth analysis. It could be like a ten minute short film. Explore the best new music like we're all being as we talk about. Revisit Classics Pitchfork a perfect ten and report on the latest Music News. This song went viral tiktok won't be this. Is The pitchfork review? Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to little Goldman, the award season podcast from Vanity Fair. An honors present this next award. The nominees and The Group Goes and I can't deny the fact that you. On the. Mistake. Light you guys won best picture. I'm the chief critic. Richard Lawson filling in for Katie rich. Who is off getting ready to host the Emmy's which means is a big day for her. Because the nominations were just announced and helped me talk about that. We have our digital director Mike Hogan Hey Richard Senior. Editor Hillary abuses allow and the woman of the our our television critic Sonia Seraya Hello Sonia. I know you just got done writing a snubs and surprises piece for us so I'm curious just off the top of your head. What was in your mind? The biggest snub or surprise of these twenty twenty I mean nominations. I think for me. The biggest surprise was in day getting a nomination for euphoria. I felt that euphoria had been totally right now by the awards watchers, and then seeing her I think it was the only nomination and got was was pretty exciting and lead actress, which is a which is a competitive category. The biggest snub has got to be Reese Witherspoon, not getting nominated for three different shows kind of shocking to be honest, but yeah, little fires everywhere big little lies and morning show all of which got nominations for other people, although big little lies, probably not as many as they hoped for but recent get any. Yeah and the thing with morning show must have burned that much more because not only to Jennifer, Aniston nominated for best actress, Steve Carell kind of surprise, nomination for best actor, but also mark dupe loss and Billy, credit in supporting. Cast cut nominated and Short Martin Short Guy Yeah Yeah I got nominated for it I mean. So. Yeah, not not a great morning for reese, Witherspoon but you know, and the big little lies disappointment certainly. I'm sure it was felt acutely. By HBO, a lot to celebrate in the twenty six nominations for watchmen, which was the biggest show limited or not of the year at these nominations I also feel like the lack nominations for whether students, great motivation for a reese witherspoon character. I? Think that she again feed off of this energy to you know. Maybe she'll make a project where she plays like this tightly wound perfectionist. Who is? Challenged by unforeseen circumstances and everything in her tightly controlled world. Start spiraling. This is all there will be a little bit out of her range I think. Shot. Yes, I, think that like. An example of someone who might have somehow split vote, you know where some voters were going to go for one show in the other, and so are just weren't enough for anyone performance, but that's kind of belied by the fact that someone like Maya. Rudolph got three nominations to in guests. Comedy actress. One in a voiceover category Angela Bassett got to minimum nominations. Nominations there were a lot of double up, so so reason I getting anything I don't know maybe spoke to something else. Who knows what that might be yeah I was also really shocked to see Bela. Lies didn't get that. Many nominations me Laura dern Meryl Streep both got acting nonsense other than those were the only two major awards that it was noticed four. Yet somehow, the handmaid's tale was also aired over a year ago at this point and had. A third season that I thought was big debt from even the second season I caught a ton of nominations, which was really surprising to me all of the main. In it including Mir widely in Bradley Whitford, but that was that felt over representatives me, which was sort of surprising I know that the envy's light to dominate the same things over and over by especially at a time when that show last season feel so far in the rear view I was shocked to see you get recognized match. Although Elizabeth Mazda and get an automation which is kind of interesting. Yeah, it's really interesting that Samir Wiley and probably went for broke through the academy's attention, but Elisabeth Moss. For some reason I guess it was a competitive category. Yeah I think that what this year was marked for me. I mean we did our predictions post. This week and I think we did pretty well. I did the comedy stuff and a blind spot for me was black ish for some reason I thought that it along with some other shows where maybe going to get cycled out of getting the nomination year after year I was wrong. Anthony Anderson Entries Ellis Ross. Perhaps writing a high the high note, wave got animation, but there were also new players like insecure did way better than I think. Some people thought it did not only for research. Research the lead actress, but for best comedy, and for you on orgeon, supporting like that was really exciting, and I wonder you know. We talked about this a couple of weeks ago about Academy voters in quarantine. If it gave them time to really like dial in on quote, unquote smaller shows they hadn't seen. Do any of you think that? Did you see any of that? Potentially in play here or was there some other factor helping to highlight these shows that haven't gotten quite the nearest past allender. Quarantine bench Washington could be by what we shadows managed to break through. Month is a surprise nomination in the comedy category for facts or effects on Hulu or Disney or whatever that we're? At this point in time, it got three in the comedy writing category. Which is you know? Sweeping category that was that was also surprise. Surprise job especially. I think a few shows that debuted at the beginning of quarantine got bumps like tiger king with at six nominations Unorthodox which I guess we'll sort of at the beginning of the year, but was still kind of right in the mix when the pandemic hit us and I think I was surprised to see sheer hoskins nomination. I just didn't think people were talking about that show anymore i. feel also it's possible that Linda Cartolini maybe edged into the the nominations because of quarantine watching that to me. I think I think all of the streaming shows. Get a little bit of a boost when we're stuck indoors in love is blind structure reality category seem. Definite evidence of this phenomenon as well so you can you help me understand what happened to? Better Call Saul I know we? We feel the pain together. Here got an automated for best drama, but Bob Odenkirk no, Bob. No Rea- seahorn, no Jonathan Banks eight sort of feel as if the academy thought last year was year if it was ever going to be, it's year and then when it didn't break through more it I feel like the momentum may have passed it, which is too bad because I think that this past season wasn't incredible. But I don't know I mean I sort of struggling with it myself. You know there was another breaking bad snow, which was Aaron Paul for El Camino, which was very well received made for TV movie. You know whatever it is. I think it might just be that the breaking bad universe doesn't feel new anymore, and they were always playing without risk I guess. He needed. It's interesting you know because it did get nominated for writing, which is a strong indication that the academy likes what it's doing, but couldn't couldn't make it into the acting categories. I think also you know that being an AMC show I don't know if it's related, but you are seeing new or players emerge I mean Disney plus got really surprised. Best Drama nomination from the man delorean Apple TV was well represented not just by the morning show by Octavia Spencer getting a nomination for her show on that brand new streaming service. QUBE got I think ten or eleven dominations, short-form things which is. A billion dollars gets you I guess, but but that said that narrative might be belied by the fact that the great show I think all of us thought was going to kind of turn up in a lot of categories got almost entirely blanked Tony McNamara a nomination and writing, but I was looking. It didn't even get production designer costume design nominations rain directing. Too. So. That's not good for Hulu I guess or not good for that show individually at least, but I was really surprised by that, Mike. Were you surprised by anything else that you that either made it didn't. Well. I was happily surprised by Zendaya because we talked about how it would be great if they did think about her on this podcast, so now do believe that we have the power to bestow nomination surprised when I'm the nation's. I just want our influence. Think about that for quite a while. I was bummed about the better call Saul Stop. I was bummed about the great. You know it's a small thing. I guess but I was really happy to see bad education in there which I watched because it was on Richard and cams list of the best movies so far this year and I still hold out hope that it will somehow figure into the Oscar is somehow as well in this crazier, but that's a really great watch on HBO if anybody. Hasn't checked it out and. You know I was I was hoping for. For more curb your enthusiasm nominations, but at least it got it got comedy series, but I but I I don't even know. I never know who's going to be nominated I, just actually just like the shows that I like and like to see them. Get rewarded, I don't understand how the handmaid's tale in stranger things and Marvelous Mrs as will just keep racking up gigantic quantities, but I'm happy for everyone involved and I hope that they're enjoying their. I'm sure Wellard success. There is some interesting overcrowding and some of the categories like succession I think best supporting actor has three contenders of the six actors nominated both big little lies. Nominations are up against each other and watchmen watchmen I believe has three supporting actors all up against each other, including both versions of hooded justice both age ages of justice in the same category best supporting actor in a limited series to me. That's sort of interesting. It's like going all in on one cast. Seems to be kind of the order of the day especially where the HBO shows are involved. Yeah, in the comedy category is there's another example of Witherspoon Syndrome the good place guy ton of nominations across the board, including for much of its cast, except for actress. Kristen Bell, which stays at, has she really is the heart of that show a lot of ways, and this is. This is a show that I think was a slow burn in terms of TV academies attention. It didn't really start getting noticed until the last season or two. And now it's up for a bunch of, but I wonder if it's going to be possible to break Mrs. Maes little stranglehold on comedy because. The, Academy really, Dunstable, love rewarding the same things over number. I'm just happy for Katie rich that Jeremy. Strong Gut nominated since that was basically the only thing for. Christmas this year L. to the OJI wasn't fortunately out originally. Travis. Brad, Pitt for playing Dr Faucher Oh my God via zoom for three minutes weird nomination. That I mean I like I, said L. is where the academy puts a lot of its political feelings and does feel very political there like how can we show our support for the actual? The actual Dr Anthony Fauci. Let's just give a word to Brad Pitt. Normally I would think like they want Brad Pitt to show up and walk the red carpet, but there's not going to be red carpet. Not if she has anything to do with it. See Insider Brad Pitt's house. A second time feels like the rest of us. There's a lot of star power I mean Meryl Streep and Hugh Jackman nominated for Emmys the same year it would've been a barn burner of a broadcast potentially, but now we're just gonNa have to figure something else out I. Don't know if you're ever GONNA get Maryland Zoo. Special? That's different. The in particular have been criticized in the past for nominee in the same things over and over again that is just one of the pitfalls of series television I guess, but also for diversity, and it does feel like this year. There was an. A concerted effort that bore some results to pay attention to performances and shows that. Were you know outside of the older white purview of you know a lot of the academy and I think there were some successes. They are obviously you see kind of agreed things where violet. Davis was not nominated for the last season of how to get away with murder. And things like that, but like elsewhere I feel like there was a lot of stuff to be happy about whether. It's you know day or you, von Orgy. Or. Watchmen getting so many nominations How does that feel to you because I feel like you as a TV critic are doing the most. Look at this. Week in week out, does this emmys feel any worse better or much? The same as like ones in terms of diversity and representation. I mean I was saying to. I don't know if this is too hot for broadcast, but I was saying to Hillary earlier that I sort of feel like the Black Ish nominations were white guilt manifesting because it's not the show you with think was sort of at the end of its like awards contention run. Of course, people really liked Tracy Ellis Ross Anthony Anderson, but I think the fact that it broke through. Indicates a sense of I. Don't know if they're actually is enough diversity in these nomination. I mean succession Ozark. Really White, casts both those. I saw someone posted tweet that said both of my favorite families got nominated, and it was a picture of the succession dining room table, shot and Shits Creek. Group photo and I was like. Yeah, this is really interesting like I do feel these two really big emmy winners like the a bunch of people in both of those cast got nominated Danley gets right nominated for acting writing and directing, but both of these shows are about very white families like in a very white place and I think that that's what those shows are a ballot, so that's that's fine, but I think that there is this broader awareness perhaps of the fact that the industry just doesn't have the same opportunities. I think like HBO to its credit has put both watchmen and insecure very much in there. Like for your consideration stuff they were like we really want these two shows to be things you think about you know green lighting a show whereas days the lead. That's another kind of incredible thing I. Mean I think Netflix's best effort was in Hollywood the Ryan Murphy show which didn't get. A ton of attention, it got a few nominations. You look at their other shows. ozark the crown stranger things Kaminsky method dead to me. Those are pretty white shows, and I, don't know if I don't know if that is a reflection of what the academy is watching or gesture or a reflection of what they're putting out there, but I think it's kind of I don't know. I don't feel as great about it as I as I have past. Finding. The perfect present for mom is tough especially. If you don't have the luxury of celebrating Mother's Day together in person I like many people have not been able to see my parents for several weeks as the coronavirus lockdown continues, it's something that we would normally try to celebrate together. My Dad's birthday or mother's Day coming up but we're staying in touch via facetime like so many other people, too, but also gifts count I know that more than anything. 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What would you do differently? this kind of the things that you would like to know, but might not come up in normal conversation, or if you're catching up on facetime with kids running around in the background, which is what happens to me, you can read the weekly stories. It's fun and it makes your family feel closer together even when they're not in one place. It's basically like having an in depth conversation. The kind of thing that you could do if you were staying in a vacation house together or you know. Know otherwise in person, but now is a little bit harder to accomplish and then maybe the best part after one year story will compile all of those answered questions that you get email, and you can include a photo, and then you put it in a beautiful keepsake book, and it ships for free, and it's something that you'll have forever so if you want to give your mom the most meaningful gift this year was story worth get started right away without the need for shipping by going to story worth dot com slash little Goldman. You'll get ten dollars off your first purchase. That story worth dot com slash little, Goldman for ten dollars off. Well I'm glad you brought up. Hollywood the Ryan Murphy. Limited series for Netflix's because that's a show that attempted in. Both a sweet and cynically bumbling way to ret con, old Hollywood, and to have a cast of. People of Color and queer people and women, asserting agency in an industry at a time that it was especially, it's bad now, but like was especially just for more overtly prejudiced and discriminatory being like the quote. Unquote like golden age of Hollywood and. That I mean it got some acting nominations for sure I think Jeremy Pope getting lead actor limited series that was a big deal, but it didn't get like the big nomination and I. Just it just doesn't feel like it. It's stuck in the way, and that was a quarantine show. That came out in the spring. And I'm just wondering like I feel like. Keep bringing this up, but like what that says Volaille about the way that it sort of indicted the industry. That's now voting on these awards. But also what it says about like? Ryan Murphy stands in that ecosystem now because it doesn't feel like his Netflix, his too big flashy netflix's projects really have gotten a lot of traction awards. Wise which I think. Maybe we're supposed to at one point and even his. His old projects hose guy pretty much. Shut out. Shut out entirely as well. There's a lead actor nomination for billy. That it's only a couple a handful of below the line categories which is disappointing because that's a very talented cast I mean. Billy Porter got the award last year, but I'm Jay Rodriguez, an Indian or both incredible performance was disappointing to see them shutout, but I wonder if that reflects to your point Richard. Maybe some overall Ryan Murphy Fatigue from the Academy I don't know. You can make the efforts with diverse casts and. Ambitious storylines, but you can't necessarily get. People to care. The case of Hollywood, at least the show is not good, then all of the the world. It was just GONNA say. The problem with Hollywood right is that a lot of people didn't think it quite came. Are you talking about the the industry or the the show? At this point who knows? Yeah I! Mean I think there's also? All four of us are in a sort of entertainment media bubble at times. I think we all try to appear outside of it when we can, but it can be hard and I think that my you know thing like I'm watching this. Show the not not emmy nominated, but this show called the umbrella academy, which is like the biggest one of the biggest shows on Netflix is having a second season premiere later this week because I was like. What is this show that everyone watches like and I think that. A lot of times. I assume that something like the great or Hollywood, even if I don't love Hollywood and do the greater whatever are going to be big, because people in my immediate sphere have been talking about it, but the emmys as much as they are also part of that sphere also reflected just a more casual viewer I mean I think it's like you know. At least twenty thousand people voted on these things, and so you're going to catch a lot of disparate interest, and so it is interesting to see I think you know what we do in the shadows for example is being something caught enough. Voters attention even if it's not the most covered show in the world. Another sometimes lightning rod category is like the variety category. The talk show category because like you said Sony, but now that can be where politics are represented. So, what did you think about this? That category this year were there any anything that stood out to you? Well I mean pretty pretty shocking that Jesus and Mary doesn't get a nomination. That's sort of where I am on it. I mean coming into word season I read so many for your consideration pieces about design mirrow so many interviews so many publications listed as its favorite to to be nominated favorite to win even. And it got shut out as did seth. Meyers, this show, which has happened for a few years now, but kind of disappointing, because these are shows that I I feel like our so cutting edge. I think and especially if you're going to talk about representation diversity in the academy like Disney mirrow is to host of color from the Bronx talking about culture from this angle in this way that is so not industry, so not la and as you can see, there's a real disconnect like what we get. What we get nominated is Samantha B Jimmy Kimmel John Oliver Stephen Colbert. Like that's that's probably what he's watching and I. Guess that's sort of makes sense given who they are, but it's disappointing because it feels like so much novelty has been overlooked. Do you guys think? Yeah this feels like the most set category at D. entire he's. This category that was invented basically in order to give the daily show, and he's until Stuart until Jon Stewart left. It did, and since then it's only been giving them to John, Oliver and yeah. Stephen Colbert one-time, but otherwise it's just impossible for something to be has managed to get nominated. Never Win anything I'm Patriot Act on that place. I think there's another. Series that some a lot of Any washers were hoping my break and this year, but still not it's. It's really tough to break through that firewall. It's such a good example of the theory that comes up every once in a while I. Know Bruce Handy. Has Written about it for why you should, there should be a limit to how many times you can win an emmy whether it's one time or three times like. I can understand how as an insider Hollywood insider you look. You're like look. These shows are the best in the business. They're the most professional operations they employ a lot of people like you know the question. Every year is which one is doing the best job, but when the answer is John Oliver every single year. And, when there's no space for anyone doing anything, different or interesting, and when you know, you just consistently end up with a category. That's all white guys in suits, although I guess now Seth Meyers checkered shirt. It just feels like they. They should do something to mix it actually only year when late night it was probably the the genre that had to, and did most quickly due to the throne of all of these shows have to figure out ways to produce episodes from home. There was a lot of really interesting innovation. There I thought that me Jimmy Fallon could find a way back into this category after being shut out for years. Because as a as a nation I, think we sort of pivoted back to wanting his kind of escapist find less overtly political point of view. But. It didn't happen seeing Sanford James. Corden yeah. I mean I. Think wait what interests me. John Oliver's chokehold on this category is it's it's not just that the academy likes it certain political angle, or at certain hosts, but it kind of likes. Likes this format that's that. Is this one guy preferably a preferably a white guy in a suit? Just telling the camera mic wide world. And I think that I think that's that in a way is sort of I mean I'm really glad it works for John Oliver and it worked for John Stewart before him, but I just think we need to. We just need to think about other modes of interacting with the World John. Oliver did that has been doing that for years, and it did not stop Donald Trump winning the presidency. Where are you sure? This. Fax I think where you see a little bit more shakeup happening in the like. Non, comedy-drama categories are in reality. You look at something like nailed it getting a competition nomination. Drag Racist. Now kind of you know a stalwart in that category weirdly. But then you go to unstructured, and not only did rupaul strike raise untucked is kind of after show. That airs every week. Get nominated, but the great. We're here from HBO, which features bombed the drag Queen and change a two people who were on drag race like it does seem like there's some. Curiosity about different forms and different subject matter in those categories that we're not seeing reflected in the form of the late night. Talk show stuff. Yeah, and I'm also cheered to see the animation category. Get a little bit of new blood in. South Park wasn't nominated this year. The Simpsons still was that the rest of the nominees were slightly less dusty. Bob's Burgers, which granted at this point has been on the air for twenty five or so years. But also Jaguars Man Rick and morty big mouth. So. Those are those are Netflix shows as well. It's it's funny. Netflix doesn't have one big marquee showed. Does I think as you said Sonya have a lot of representation in a lot of other categories kind of across the board, which explains how they managed to get one hundred and sixty nominations altogether. If you look at the variety, special ause. Netflix aired five out of the six nominees, which is pretty crazy. Comedy specials. Its volume is a strategy baby. I mean it's kind of wild, because I mean. If you just look pure numbers of the number of shows, HBO puts out versus the number of shows. Netflix puts out like your purse show nomination count would be very different, but. This is I think this is really gonNa work for Netflix's. If we can get three or four nominations for every show that they put out there, and then you know, pull out an Ozark that gets eighteen like one hundred sixty nominations over one hundred and seven for each sound so good and that's that's going to be there like. Investor brief. That's going to be the first line. Yeah, and they're and there again. Putting out shows like ozark, the kaminsky method which are not covered all the time. I probably have an older audience demographic, and so are there. They have shows that are people like what what's that I've never heard of that, but like clearly there is an audience for it. Whether or not, that's just academy voters who knows, but. Yeah. I think you're right so when you the sort of. The. The quantity offensive. Seems to be paying off handsomely for them. It certainly works for quickey short-form. Yeah, let's talk about that. Though let's talk about the quality of it all because you know granted short form is not a terribly. Rich category, which doesn't mean that there isn't great short stuff. Being put out there, I think it's hard to get it in front of Academy, Voters perhaps there are qualification rules that I don't know about, but you know because like you don't see like a youtube video getting nominated or Youtube series even though. There are plenty worth it, but quickly. Yeah. I mean like granted. This is a A. Somewhat doomed project teams that has huge backing from Jeffrey Katzenberg one of the huge players of Hollywood, and has been for number of decades or not his status that has waned some. Partly, because of qube is up for debate but. They got a ton of nominations. Anna Kendrick got nominated for the thing where she falls in love with A. was it a ventriloquist dummy? BLOW UP, doll! Go Blow! It's one doll creamier. that. Would have been a good title act. I think I should announce now that I have the the. This is my last. You Go. It was inevitable. I suppose. But you also see Christoph. Walls getting nominated for. The most dangerous game which also got a best short form series nomination, which is an interesting case, because it's my understanding that the production company behind that is now packaging and marketing or trying to sell it as film in addition to its Ron Kuby. So if if nothing else, perhaps some of these nominations will give some of this content. The attention that the launch of the service didn't really give it. We'll look the whole thing about Qube. Is that it was a Hollywood consummate Hollywood. Insiders approach to making Internet videos right so the problem with Qube is that they didn't really I don't think. Put enough thought into what kind of user behaviors actually exist, and can be leveraged, and they spent a lot of time just thinking about what they didn't like about Youtube, or whatever and also asking themselves. Why hasn't anyone taking a traditional Hollywood approach to youtube style videos and the answer is basically because actual human beings don't really want that what I'm sure that getting emmy nominations was. Burned into the plan from the very beginning and I think if you prioritize that, and if you're willing to spend against that, and if you're willing to figure out early on what are all the requirements, and who are all the voters, and how do I? Make sure that they see this stuff? Then you can get ten or however many was emmy nominations, and if and if you can't even do that then then. You really didn't do anything, so. I'm not surprised that they did it. In retrospect, it was kinda surprising when it happened. And then when you think about all right well. Of course they did that and maybe that will. Will give them an opportunity to sort of get some people to give them a second look, and maybe it'll help them figure out a longer more longer term, more viable plan going forward or by them. A little I'm really curious to see how how if at all they can leverage it and I think about that same thing with Apple TV, plus which you know had a big splashy launch. WHO THE HELL KNOWS! How many people actually watch their shows? You Know Apple TV plus says the Greyhound the Tom Hanks movie. was you know it had viewership numbers on par with a summer blockbuster know that was theatrical theatrically released. So. They've had a Jennifer Aniston. The SAG for the morning show back this past winter, so they've had some momentum and I wonder like. Does that mean that Apple TV plus like is now going to get a reinvestment from apple from audiences you know in terms of interest, because for a while there had been looking a little quiet much the same way that HBO Maxine just released their numbers, and they're they're. They're a little soft, so I don't know I. Don't know if there's an answer to it. Maybe there isn't but like in terms of like what these award shows can do for these nations platforms. I mean clearly did a lot for Netflix's with house of cards, getting all these nominations and stuff that was a major thing for them in terms of getting traction in the in the industry and stuff so. I guess you know. Hi! This is Jim. Miller and origins is back. I said to camera. This doesn't come around very often and I want to be in this movie chapter six almost famous turns twenty. Golden Made friends with them. Because, they make you feel cool to celebrate almost famous twentieth anniversary. We've managed to put the band back together again. Including the director and writer of the film Cameron Crowe himself plus Kate Hudson Frances mcdormand, billy crude up Jason Lee Patrick fugate. Silly de Chanel Jimmy Fallon, rockstars, Peter, Frampton, and Nancy Wilson and more. It's what it's like to be a fan to love some band so much that it hurts. Join me as it all unfolds with Arjun Chapter Six, almost famous turns twenty. Subscribe now on Apple podcast where wherever you get your shows. Yeah I think I I feel like it's obvious what one hundred and sixty nominations means for netflix because they're they're. Proposition is like we are the the one thing that you absolutely have to pay for every month like you can mess around with whether you want Disney, plus or whether you really need Apple News, plus but like you have to have netflix's everybody has to have it which means that they have to have stuff that people talk about almost every week, and it's helpful for them to sort of have these kind of Gaudy. Numbers to brag about. With Apple. It's interesting because. At the end of the day apple has so much money that it may be more important for the executives running apple TV to be able to go to the executives above them and say look, we go globe. We got some emmy nominations like this is working. Give us some more time. Whereas quimby I think has to like at some point in the nearish future. Get a critical mass of human beings to willingly part with money every month like. You know they they went around and got a lot of investment, but that means that they now have a bunch of people that they owe money to, but but they are not in direct competition with every other streaming platform, the way that Apple TV and Disney plus and peacock are, but on the other hand there indirect competition with every other APP, which is an even more insane crowded. Landscape so it's. It's certainly interesting. I don't know that ten nominations. was that what it were around that ten or eleven? Yeah. I don't know how much. Oxygen that really buys them, but it's better than zero for sure. Do Tick talks get nominated for emmys. Shows would be peabody's. Pulitzer's it does make you think like wire Quimby, whatever they are films and shows nominated for Emmys and not all the other stuff that that millions of people watch every day like that seems like an emmy. Who submitting, thanks, consideration into I mean if if youtubers want to submit their. Their content than. I do feel like when we when we talk about this. We get into the nitty gritty. Picking apart you know the enemies are worse for television both went and been is television anymore were sort of hurtling toward a place where there's no differentiation among the various types of content, there's just longer content shorter contents and it. All kind of gets muddled together. Production values perspective to cares about like all of these things are just. Distractions that take various amounts of time and at some point are we going to have one big awards show? That recognizes all forms of content. Is that the long term future? Yeah, well as always predicted, the one thing that remains pure is to theater. Theater is probably dead now so like. Richard I know that you're thrilled that the scrappy underdog Disney plus got a best drama nomination. I mean that's really big for that little company. You know I remember I remember. When Bob Eiger was I went and interviewed him and his garage. Building the mouse years and it was a real. You know it's amazing what what a little ingenuity can do in this country? As little known franchise called Star Wars Manages to break through what I am happy about the into delorean about. Is that like Disney aside whatever is that that is show that. Did what is being asked of so many creative people in the industry now who are given lots of money, which is take this Ip that has been essentially brandon, brandon, Brandon Brandon until it's like oxygen, it's everywhere and make something new out of it. You know, and I think you saw with the rise of Skywalker the most recent theatrical release star wars film, which I hated and I think a lot of people didn't even though it made money. It felt like Oh. There's not a lot of there's not really any gas left in this particular tank at least right now. We need to take a star wars break, but then the main delorean. Would Premiere just before that movie came out last fall, and it was great. It felt fresh. It felt new. We're GONNA get this continuous onslaught of Marvel of Star Wars of whatever. Stuff is being. Reiterated time and time again at least do something that feels fresh and fun, and like maybe you know in the main blurring the case of that show hearkens back to what we loved about the original thing, the nine hundred seventy seven film, so if nothing else, it is a triumph of. Cynical as the sounds of someone like doing the job of. Expanding Ip well and somewhat responsibly I guess. I mean I can't agree with you more because I do. I totally agree with your cynicism, and at the same time like I really enjoy the mandatory I, watched the hell out about show and I felt like they did a great job with making all of this existing Ip Fun I. Mean Like Ludwig. Ludwig Gordon since the music got a nomination, unfortunately Werner Herzog did not get a nomination for his incredible incredible, supporting performance, but I think if we're gonNA live in a world with these big franchises. We might as well award the ones that do it really well. And to celebrate. I am bringing five hundred lucky little. Goldman listeners to Disneyworld Mexico so just sent just DM me on twitter. UPSHAW WE'RE GONNA? We're just GONNA rent a bus and drive. 'EM! Speaking I liked that. You brought up a Mandolin Sonia because it is fun when talking about nominations like these to focus on things that make us not to steal from pop culture. Happy Hour, but make us happy. And I think that there is a little weird details Kinda further down the list of stuff that like like look at the outstanding guest actress in Drama Series, category. You have Sisley Tyson. laverne Cox Cherry Jones Harriet Walter from succession Alexa Bell and Felicia Rashad I mean that is like a murderer's row of people, and that's like a really fun thing and you know I doubt I mean they're probably not gonNA. Broadcast anything really but. It's fun that the Emmys is such an expansive you know awards show in terms of how many categories at has that? There can be all these little interesting things, have you had any of you picked up on the little detail that has gone? On spoken about a far L., actually, this is kind of funny. We were just talking about youtubers in the outstanding short for writing series. Category Reindeer about nomination. There you go speaking of quarantine viewing. Yes, so okay so a youtuber can. Can break through that. Did anyone else notice that Buzz Aldrin is now an emmy nominee? Maybe he was before in his life, but he's a nominee for. Cinematography for CNN's Apollo Eleven. Special I guess which is Kinda crazy. Don't you think again? That's technically accurate. That's just you have to take your hat off to the whoever thought of that as? Exactly I'm sure that the other cinematographer who did it. Contemporary with the production of the show versus the archival footage that Buzz Aldrin shot did a great job, but I'm sure that CNN was like no, no, no put put him on their. Get voted for. That's what the money's for. Apollo eleven was very good, though just putting that out there. I thought of I never thought of him as a cameraman before, so I guess that's what that accomplished for me like Oh yeah Buzz Aldrin Camera Man on the moon okay. One small step for the giant that astronauts. e-eh nominations for John Mullany Lynch. Oh, yeah, totally that's. A very beloved thing kind of from a forgotten hero, but. That was I was glad. You know even the Romney Which? You know got some nominations, but didn't get best Comedy Series Rama, Yussef Day to get a directing nomination, which was good. I was glad that Leslie Lincoln Gladder who has done a lot of great work on homeland over the years got nominated for directing the series finale of that show I. Thought was really well done. So they're. Nomination for Lynn Shelton. Osterloh Spring And Betty. Gilpin got a nomination for the final season of glow. which is a nice little surprise. Yeah, although she's going up against sesame strong for Saturday, night live who I think has long been the kind of MVP of that. Show undersung Uganda originally. It's. Tough category for sure. An interesting sort of Snub Lynne Cox got nominated for oranges. You blacks final season. She's the only one that got nominated from that season. which is too bad I know that people probably stopped watching but Daniel. Brooks Adrian Seymour didn't incredible work in that final season lower taxes barely in that season. If you feel like that's another name recognition. Nomination right there. I think. Also very confused and didn't realize during the broadcast nomination announcement. Eligible. Reacted when Leslie Jones, tried to tell her over and over, and she'd been nominated. I have to say that I've never watched the masks, singer and I generally don't like swag. Am against it, but they did. Send me a mask. Singer mask covert masks that makes my face look like sort of mutant cookie monster, when I go to the store and as a result I am glad that they got nominated. Show I think they were to win. They were ahead of their time. You know. UNMASKS. I'm also happy. Show for our time. A recent Oscar winner who's film turn series? What we do in the shadows got a bunch of nominations, but takeaway td got a voiceover performance nomination for the mental or in for playing g eleven. The robot, which is one of those fun way way down the list things. That will bring some a-list Hollywood into the. NONBROADCAST EMMYS this year. In that same vein. Will. Our Net closes out Beau Jack Horsemen, not getting a single voice acting nomination, which is sort of shocking if you think about it. Yeah given how how critically beloved that show was and everything. But, you know you can't. Even, though they're like forty billion categories, you can't get them all. Unless you're. Unless, you're doing short-form and you're quickey. Right Yeah I. was you know speaking of? Creators who in the past have gotten out recognition really like David Simon the wire famously I got what three emmy nominations ever or maybe just one. His miniseries the plot against America did okay. Hey, but not so well in the acting stuff which I had hoped it would, and I think it deserved to, but that limited series thing is getting so crowded. I mean look at Poor Rose Byrne Shutout at Mrs. America, wherever else seems to have got nominated, so I guess someone has to be left out in the cold. All right well, that does it for our immediate post. Nominations Reaction Episode, we will, of course be talking about the Emmys more and more as the actual ceremony date approaches. It's really fun to have actual awards to talk about on an awards podcast again, and you know maybe disappointed at least some people to things they haven't seen or heard of and they can catch up with so maybe that's the good work that the Emmys can do in the meantime you can read all of us at the F. Dot Com We are on twitter at Goldman in on our own Mike Mike Underscore. Hogan Hillary, Hell Buster and Sonia Sonia psoriasis and just a reminder to read Sonya's Viola Davis cover story from our current issue, which is spectacular. This episode was edited and produced by Brett Fuchs and this week's award for the best sales pitch for little Goldman's new line of promotional dolls. Goes to, Hillary abuses. Doll fear Ventriloquist.

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Ep. 272 | Q & A: The Unspoken Truth About Growth Corridors & Picking The Right Property Investment Strategy

The Property Couch

51:03 min | 1 year ago

Ep. 272 | Q & A: The Unspoken Truth About Growth Corridors & Picking The Right Property Investment Strategy

"Welcome to the property couch each week. You get to listen to two of Australia's leading experts. Rice Holloway Co host of location location location Australia Bookstores Lifestyle Channel. Co host of escaping the city on the ABC and partner of Impel Wealth Advisory Thin Kingsley. Chair Property Investors Council of Australia and the founder of empowering advisory named the two thousand eighteen in two thousand and nineteen property advisory firm of the year stay tuned as they renew the insiders guide to property finance honey management or effects. Welcome back to the catch. Hell Advan how you did. I might how are we very good? Thank you how is q? And I I enjoy Detroit very good Gregson great great questions to kind of like to get into the rise. Some good ones. You want before push record. You obviously excited to The you'll I feel. W Tame your girls are up in about two and is that bad couple of years but you know we. We beat at first. We did Travis cotton for the first time on Sunday album so good on the goals and fremantle still on top in. So I'll be accompanied as well and we're used to being on So Alf famous as always been very very good team and beat the West Coast West Coast road on onto the ice skating better and better. It's just a good competition kind of like to say grow exactly so all I am going to do. My mindset themes I've in and I'm going to do. I'm where I think the first line you're GONNA go. Gosh we've heard this before but you're ready for you. Do you know have been that. You are richer. The ninety three percent of the people in Australia. Org lively glad you ask good qualifying questions route but not in money but in time Ben. Oh because someone says that in the obviously that the wealth distribution in the world is heavily stuck towards us in the West. And that's not in money but in one hundred and eight billion people ban have lived throughout history. Ninety three percent of them are deceased. So what you have So you have. What every king every quaint every fair every ruler see as well and celebrity of the past would give all their willful Ben Tonight today for second but now you bought it back to that land and that was of course I cannot get enough of this stuff in James Cleo that was he says they three thoughts and that was when i read that I thought I I've seen the distribution of wealth discussed before but I must have been all I have been focusing a lot on what is the. What is good about what we've got today rather than what will happen last last week where we got coming up so they flex hopefully that land for you That you have to I and lots and lots of folks do not have that. So you're fortunate people queue and I can I what are we. We have got to heap of questions that have been sending and we have our team if put on disc bend so that we Largely unprepared which is a part of us have read them. This tom which is good. I did have a quick raiders. Them to before the first ones from Jackass on Brisbane versus Melbourne differing opinions. So let's have a little listen to Jack's question now all they goes up by just tuning your approach Absolutely loving GONNA be a couple of books to die saying they got a Lotta got abused. Yeah I'm really saw raid FELA's up looking assigning appropriate investment journey about this time next year December twenty twenty now obeying opponent couple of property investors. One goal is. He's currently missing up in Brisbane. This other guy that I follow as well a size truly likely in Victoria. Mainly Melvyn Hayes. Six Vitamins. With the growth corridors. I have they don't really growth corridors Paknum winning vile tahnee point at look in there on the average as much as what I thought. I would know spices but I. Don Afford to invest in Melvin itself and the difference in the one saying I signing people up in Brisbane getting the introduction into the property market up in Brisbane Fall on a Kayak and the other guy. I'm Metro area He suggested would start at say. Something like Bendigo Bell Right. He doesn't believe Joe Lonzo could Yeah unpleasantly I've got back because iron lane but I'm also afraid that moral judgments bank Or dropping cars layers of a wisely Wise lobbed because if you give me your opinion that would be saying Jesse quelled on again on the podcast. I'm absolutely loving it and I'll watch seven emphasize that was from Jack. Ben I'm before we go ahead and just want to say I've been late last year. You started that we would approach a publisher and we would buy some books and give them to Fox without prepared by shipping. And that actually haven't really well Christmas quarter people with the hands upside just saying that we are going to every now and then gone possible book spin. Put them up so if people want to I walked they lost to the God dot Com. That I can get a physical copy of Apple. Could be prepared to pay for shipping. We'll send it out to Ben. If you are still bootstrapping your research and your knowledge you can go to make money simple again. Been Dot com and you can get a free copy of the digital book so that you can take it outside. That was just because Jesse Jackson. He was going to read the books. There's a way to get it for free. Then what do you think about that? So there's a fair bit going on here and what and it comes back to. Also what Jack's gullies we all know that capital garage these king when it comes to investing in property you are getting an asset. The high the asset grows ultimately the more. You'll be out to charge for that asset as well but like everyone circumstances. We can't go out and buy the SKASE's land in Australia which has gone to appreciate it. The Best Value. So we have to have tried offs. They're awesome tradeoffs as part of that coal. Now Oviously what Jack's doing is listening to different marketplaces and different opinions around. What's out there? And there are huge amounts of opinions as to. What's going to be a better story? My view is always being. I'm not on bipartisan. In the sense that I don't care which city which site that property is in and as I can see it out my options I do bring into things like land. Tech'S IF I've already I ever exposed and undiversified in different different locations so for me when someone says Bendigo Ballarat. I'm like really good yields Bendigo. You would probably argue still struggles with access to Melbourne as just that row. Too Far But that's not the site that I've ever time it's not going to do a rot dollar an hour and six minutes by trying so you know and reasonable yields but just remember. They're not going to grow as quick as the biggest cities and when we talk about growth tornadoes we always talk about the fact that there is risk you know supplying those corridors. Melbourne is not landlocked. It does not have that challenge that we see in other cities but when you look at Melbourne as as Brian Santa and the Santa Fall Irene comes and and job opportunities and liveability. It's off the chats. So you're going to get those high paying jobs and when you get those high paying jobs. Uganda have long term demand. And I'm on record assign are definitely. Won't people wind one property in Melbourne Because we do know that. Melbourne is going to be Australia's largest city if it keeps going to trained because of the affordability Dan here and everything that's happening in in regards to job opportunities now I say that this Bruce Vegas now with Brasilia gacy's effectively. We are talking about the merging of the goal cousin. The Sunshine Coast into one potential mega area over the next forty fifty years so a still potentially say opportunity in that market as well. So it's about trying to get the location that has the based demand and supply not only for the short term but also has longer scarcity of land where you can get that base bang for buck. What of it. I think the the importance of not being sort of wandering without a Rutta nine when you hit it because you talked about at the beginning but always fall on that if you if you like the the goal the sense of which direction you're heading you can actually easily blown off course by the next expert what they've got because you know we've been doing this for a long time. I mean there's there's there's assets that we bought for clients that have got seven plus percent Capital GROWTH PRESIDENT AND WE BOUGHT ASSETS. That have got Well Haw and we've got assets must be sitting around five or six depending on what it is that the client actually night. So are these really important for the listeners. Tonight on the grand. These are real decisions that are buying team. You have to have to balance that between. Why would I go to a certain location based on what What THE BRIEFCASE. Ausman from the client is very clear on nine. Where the hitting all? I've got this much to spend on this much growth on this much yield to fulfil my own unique individual plan that the the the road that on walking not actually comparing myself to an analysis and I think you know account impress upon Jack. Who's a batsman back on this journey enough that you actually just need to know where you're going because people who are getting guys Imbaba q? Conversations around mall ones better than yours? Forget the fact that it doesn't really doesn't really take into account which destination you're actually going towards so if you have a it's true if someone has a budget of five hundred thousand well like hot getting close in Illinois but there are pockets of Brisbane getting closer pocket of adolescent the getting close. So that's number one that's really really important but to understand with the absence of a clear goal you guide to be susceptible to these barbecue chats about Martin's better than you'll be clear on that. Secondly the point about growth corridors is they are actually growth corridors but be very clear on what the growth is people moving there and supply. It's not actually saying it's a capital Growth Corridor. Although sometimes it's miss heard all yes. Misuse misappropriated by their own. People saying it's a capital growth. Carl what it's saying is the population is growing. We need to put people into housing. Stock Community put people into accommodation and the growth these actually out towards these regions that are up in the north. Finish the down in the south which does not so be very very clear that in Melbourne. You have this almost infinite Sprawl that's available to so funded interesting that One of these people talk. Jill Longman you as you know. I live down the siege along very very regularly and what I am. Seeing is subdivision subdivision after subdivision guy. Dan They so that is also I? Growth Corridor doesn't necessarily mean a capital growth cover. Oh but there's lots and lots of people who are moving to these places that are horrible but what I would say about Joan is. It's very built up. Its go by in Scott a big hallway. The back it's very established suburbs that have been around for wall so in certain parts of Jerome. I would suggest that because of all those subdivisions that'd be making that space and space and more desirable. So therefore if you bought the properties in those locations so Jack be very very clear about a couple of things. What you goal is where you hit. Because at the capital growth that you'll be acceptable. Be Very clear. On the definition of Autograph Card aures its Population Growth Cardona necessarily category Koro and also thirdly when it comes to hearing what someone says that particular reason Jr along for example or if they might have an opinion on the Gulf coast of they might have an opinion on satellite or whatever. Just just ask a little bit. More bet will auto. Now anyone who's ever bought driven on somebody's boathouse industry in a suburb of Geelong. But I don't know anyone who's ever fortune along so it'd be very specific about what what a- voss mentoring you're taking as to. What does that actually mean? I love it. So plannings critical In terms of our way safer for those people just beginning just understand. You WanNa get in the guy okay. So Jack's Mida pledged strong getting to the game by twenty twenty in December so to getting the cash flow is important Stein. The guy in cash allies and pull what's important about that the surplus in that cashflow and any change in your cash flow in the income coming in because that that's going to determine what you can buy the blamed of assets whether it be high-yielding and you're gonNA forego a little bit of growth where you're going to try and get the magic of two. We find those best locations which got some high yield but some growth paintshop demand the short term and then long term guard. Because why don't you get in and you get equity out of that property you can then. Rinse repeat into the next property and beyond so great question for Q. And I for twenty twenty or the next one is nick. From Switzerland. Switzerland Switzerland High Switzerland Switzerland. Why Bryson Bandmann? I'm is neekam calling all the way from Switzerland originally from the northern beaches in Sydney my wife and I buy from the northern beaches but we have been working here in Europe for the Pasta us. And we're looking to buy. I property back in Australia. Been keeping an eye on and looking all over the country so not necessarily in Sydney. We have a general question about what type of strategy we should be looking for being non residents for tax purposes but Australian nationals taking into account. We can't take advantage of first time. Owners grants or negative gearing as we have no income back in Australia. Originally we were considering purchasing pop with potentially five to six percent rental you with the audio of having a high yielding property so one that can Saw One that can be potentially positively geared G. Is something that I've been. What are your thoughts on this? Ben You having candidates on a number of guys I have had we have plenty of clients who are experts looking to get money back into those. There's a couple of things going on here. Sorry Which Nick is talking? Is that there. This is an investment. Doesn't sound like it's going to be a PPO They might have a goal of coming back into a certain location. So I would say To unique Work on what that long-term vision looks like for coming back to a strike if you are planning to come back because ideally what we normally advise clients. He's too you can buy a footprint where I move back into. That's a great starting point because that will be their principal place of residence at some point and that has an effect one of the things that a lot of people don't realize when they're non resident for tax purposes and this is a general commentary It's not specific to nick circumstances because we can't get texted voss but if you if you were earning incoming terms of rain across industry that Rainsy's offset against the costs that you have in this country now what that means is effectively. You may be negatively whereby the costs greider usually the interest Compared to the racial income that you get now that loss copy offset against foreign income As was pointed at here by But it is so in the event that that property eventually does come to be positively then all those losses that you have crew over that time we'll be offset against that probably so let's say digitally money in the bank and never come back. Let's never come back that he's going to be offset against income? So ultimately the techs advantages are delayed. So if you're an expat earning really great income and you want to deploy that incoming to assets then all. I would highly recommend that Australia for the extra is a great place to do that now. They're awesome other texts legislations. That are coming to pass in regards to ship in selling properties that are going to apply it. So we'll be talking about is in the coming weeks Is that legislation gets more and more clear up. Because we've got a few questions around and we'll share that with people for all of our expert listeners. But it but in terms of what's happening he up or would always still go after a great asset in this location that body and if my cash flow allows for that to happen and then we can say them having a one or two properties but if a gyn one of the principal price of rhythms to potentially come back and maybe that northern beaches of Sydney's not bad place to start that story because it's also one of the hottest parts of Stryer at the moment in terms of the level of demand and interest True Ben what's clear here is how cachefly stripped. They obvious there's a little hint that chasing an apartment with five to six percent rental urine logic. That's because of the fact that they don't get any is gearing benefits but it's it doesn't necessarily give us a clue as to to have the ability to fund any shortfall in applying the chemical works guy forces that will be offset at some point in the future correct and some of those yields. You're talking about mark. Come from service departments and and these talks of accommodation which promoted is as good high yielding investments. But we've talked about that before the boy something the banks look you know it's gross. You'd and your costs on those of things and remember costume. Apartments are also very very high. So you WANNA get a low cost apartment in the rod locations and that has broad reaching demand and appeal as opposed to something like a service department and And we using the word of parliament. We often tend to the stuff that we would all be flat. So is the apartment. I'm definition that we use as well. Just be wary of. That's been said you know if you have say send you is more important than the actual there's What the yield is after body corporate face if you are going to buy something that's got some medium to high density because six cars looks good luck with Jack's question before about that investor who's following? He buys everything in Melbourne after land. Tax what's the you're getting off the land texts you. You're doing great things for the for the state government budget. But you don't necessarily doing great things for your own body volleyball in one city Just crazy so. Let's let's let's give a summary then so the strategy is simply Keeping in mind if you have future nate for his residence. Yup also be mindful of the fact that you're not getting the benefits so you will want to chase some form of yield but make sure it's not at the expense of the quality of the asset correct and this carried forward losses which you will eventually get back So let's let's break that down so let's say you might lost this five thousand one and then you to you got another four thousand four thousand so at the end of you two. You would have carried forward losses of nine thousand correct the falling year at while the Knicks man. A guy in Texas. Please talk to your trusted advisor. But essentially what that means is that you had that no one thousand offset been and then you came and earned one thousand dollars well. Then that's already tax-free mine direct Row Ford so correct hunter. That's helped me show. That's what it would be clear to have a better understanding of what you cash flow positions locked but hopefully that gives you and everyone else is trying. You'll story emphasize. Thank you for question. All the way from Switzerland. That's cool one. Thank you from Susan. Hi Nikki Nikki. Doesn't tell us where she's from but upgrade now or lighter based on an economic forecast it's currently a mid June Just to show that We do try and get to as many questions asked about six to currently June twenty seven thousand nine tain currently my husband and I purchased a three bedroom two and a half to garage two hundred forty three square townhouse screaming at free hold in prime real estate whole form prison. Also we have been provided by market experts that we could get thirty to fifty for the salvo property. We're currently wanted to upgrade to leaving a better area. Wow because we would be best with a would we be best economic forecast over the next couple of years to keep probably investment property before upgrading to a property just in the very low millions. Ben If if Nikki could if we could share the story of thousands of people that we've counseled in this particular area if you can hold on to a property. I mean just ask your parents. If they ever did sell an upgraded you know whether they wished I had the property of the Dipoto. The first one that I bought all I would say they'd be very few. That would say now I regret it. I regret it. You know in terms of should all kept that property so this is a really simple answer if you can afford it and you can afford it not only today but into the future and if we're having kids and we're or that's already we got really strong incomes. Hold the property. Hold THE FORT. Build the base of the greater the vice. You can do the better. You'll wealth position will be for the medium to longer-term and ultimately this is going to be an income producing asset so It bodes well for the asset by. You'll have in retirement so it's a real simple question if you can afford to please hold onto it because Tennessee's locations good price point And you're saying you. We might be able to do that. And hold onto the property in in a very low millions. Pretty cool to cumulation. We love property accumulation. It's very helpful. Well you're talking about ten houses. Freehold been such clue that would suggest that we're not We're not in Estrada. So that's even better for those people who are not familiar with Brisbane landscape. Let's just sit the whole one with an eight Not Walk Melbourne without a whole phone with me is a river seth sought blue-chip. Sabat has some of the most magnificent Queensland. Is You ever want to set your on? And that's it is amazing. I got a NAS five. Eighty to walk to straight. Cath that you get this amazing cruise people strike people don't trams and trains and these these guys get a river cruise to get into. It's a bridge so the real estate. The location is amazing to remember when all was Os knowing. It was nineteen ninety three. My Dad grew up in Renton Krizan in South Perth for those folks imposed shed it to talk to Colin who also lives in strict There's also a client about. Excuse me updates on my GRANDPA's hassle. So my dad lived in this Rid clinker brick house and My Dad was gonNA ball at and so I might add tells the story. So this is the one that go to wireless and its context. It and then what happened is It was owned by Homes wished which is the the Social Housing Mall Bins? Grandfather used to rent it my deadly there and he will. I'M GONNA buy it and it would have just been like anyone else. I go to mortgage. That gives them a little bit of a online now to sit the same. If you stand at the front GRANDPA's has-been you got. This beautiful greengross then has swollen river with the mice amazing view of the Golan so. I'm sure everyone's catching the store here by my dad then met my mom. Therefore he wasn't able to at the Tom and with the monsoon tombaugh that and as well as so he did it for the future and then so so then the state Auctioned at grandma the Pasta and it went for nine hundred ninety three thousand dollars. That's a lot of money now. But Ray one we're talking nineteen ninety rate So it was a lot of cash because the location was amazing. So that would be the advice. I'd give to Niki that whole phone with an A. In Brisbane is a river Salva. That is a blue chip and we know it's a townhouse. So that's that's all good so there will be a little bit of extra supply coming today that we more and more but but it's actually gets off clean development with lots and a little bit as well but whole phone. It's very much landlocked correct So it plausible. All the rules of scarcity period appeal houses. You go proximity to your job very easily so let us know what you decided to do that. I'll be interested to say whether you're able to hold onto this with the economic full cost over the next couple of years only interested to know what the forecast is. That's concerning them. Because if you have a look at any long range for us for our country all the capital cities or expect even is probably a poor cows and with the real estate at the at the moment if ever every single city is expecting more population to come into them so pull population in Iraq. That I don't think Brisbane is a CD's GonNa closed anytime say are suspect that we're going to say businesses and industry And Service companies thriving in the Brisbane and the faced region. And and there's GonNa be People WanNa leave Nas locations a whole phones one of them. So hopefully you can hold onto it. And he and hopefully been heartfully. Nikki has all the money off sitting and has a pedal for line do so they gotta keep. Hopefully that's been of help to you or Craig. On selling a property at a loss ben or white to recoup losses and. That's what that's the hulk. Or let's listen to Craig's question. Now good afternoon probably catch. My name is Craig off a Christian. Ama- partner currently earn three investment properties between us to these properties of performing quite well in terms of barth up kit. The vestment probably dowd was originally brought as vice presidents and is not performing well as an investment the markets had to thirty two said. Damn tone and he's unlikely to recover any Thompson questions. Should we consider selling the investment at a loss have to walk away with proximity? Thirty thousand dollars to reinvest into a new or existing your basement or should we hang onto this investment long-term with the antenna recuperating out buses eighteen property costs about eight thousand dollars a year like fetal question but the classic Dilemma Zella hold. Ross now again. It's very difficult cry for us to just five lawns of ticks to bicycle side. What you can and can't do in this particular circumstance but it does hall a lot what you do need to do in terms of that research. There's a couple of things in principle place of residence while we never high any tax on principlies arisen currently. That's that's how the lorries at the Miami. You never know with governments Although the saw what they going to do Principal residence is capital gains sex freight now. You've obviously turned this into an investment property and hence since moved away and you've experienced a deterioration in the value of that property. Now it's from that time point that that you've had the the capital value of that property evaluation of that property evaluation to die from the time that it's been a rental property is potentially going to be what I capital lost my clock for you. So there's a bit of work that you need to do with your tax advisor in terms of what that figure looks lock. Because that's going to come into the consideration in terms of future planes around what you plan to acquire and whether at some point into the future you're going to die this of your investment properties or one of them because that carried forward could be material Especially when we're talking about a thirty two percent down and you still going to have thirty thousand. Currently in terms of what we would refer to as recycle funds to be able to invest into somewhere else so if we look at the economics of it continues to struggle. It may be struggling for at least the next three to four five years in terms of what that story looks like so the question is opportunity costs which you well point out so. I mean we talk about this before but we do a detailed analysis in sell a hold on now. It's our research platform on. I'm doing a plug for but have a look at cell or hall dot com that I you run the numbers. It's free to sort of. Put Your preliminary numbers in there and then you get an inside in terms of what holding. That probably is going to look like. And then you've got to Mike a decision in terms of whether you think you can get a better return on investment somewhere else. Yeah because Because how much is it costing you to hold? It is all of the all of the loss just a balance sheet loss in a cash flow. It's fallen and it's also about having a thing with your accountant or your trusted financial person about what events that coming up in the future in terms of timing a loss with Gyn At some point. So there's a there's a guy on a good qualify if you WanNa do it yourself. That's the whole thing if you a professional to do it for you then look for a qualified property investment advisor. Who does these types of an analysis? Now they charge you for that time and it might be a couple of hundred dollars. That'd be more significant than that. But if you want to know where the opportunities and and in terms of where your money stopped making more money for you. That's what you want to. That's making the invisible visible a nice. Should be able to give you some idea in terms of if you would redeploy that money into a new location. When would you be back in Fronta Gyn and then you might get informed decision as opposed to I guess? And that's important because Craig it's probably worth sort of giving you some Kashmir that we have had plenty of scenarios with people who've come into our office Done some planning process and I've had I I would consider a dot and in some cases we tried through that so that I can keep performing cachefly laws And there's other times when it just makes sense to do it. So there's there's no you know it's horses for courses. We've got no emotion. Attached alternately we we would traditionally a hall. This is a cell. We want to see a compelling argument for sell. But so do you. I mean ultimately you need to see a Gyn the numbers and the due-diligence of what's gone on in regards doing that work so it is a conversation potentially with a professional but you can start off by kicking kicking the worksheets through the Seller Hall Dot Com and and have a look at that. Oh you did sign up in. The point of sil shoulder is a commercial thing for us but there is a free bit that gives you an awesome amount of information that you'll stop taking a loss because capital gains loss in this case. So you all the questions that will give you that estimate that you can invalidate with with some of the things that you haven't you might not have even thought about to start Leaving the thought process for you. An informed investor is a smart investor for the help. Craig Heiko this one from Scott. Been this Let's have a listen to Scott's question hi guys Scott he obeyed on board following the podcasting Cypress. Two Thousand Fifteen loved the Jenny. Almost five years in thought. It was fondly. Tom Hit you up for some advice. Moth Terezin all living regional. Wi with two kids age. Seven a non artists quick full-time for state government department and we currently end. Two hundred and seventy Qaida corus combined we onto properties in a hometown of post. I'll I asked him. Bieber light shoutout to Boras which is valued at four thirty with three hundred fifty. Owing other property is anonymous forties with cottage cheese from the city with owner occupier valued at six thirty with five hundred so a total about eighty percent is lines are interestingly and both properties have reliable tenants in the Pike surrendered fifty four hundred ten awake respectively. We on expenditures and have no personal car or helplines. Judah this and the fact that our employers heavily subsidized rent whilst we live originally. We've quietly amassed savings to three hundred twenty k. Which currently sits in an offset account we intend on staying in the Bush for at least two years before heading back to the big smut. And in his time we anticipate the three twenty. We currently have will grow by seventy five in which we don't do anything with it. However I'm sensing a huge opportunity costs. He if we laid things any longer any losses to what our next move should be very much appreciated Cape up the silhouette goes well. Good record unbelievable saving when we talk about all look at these numbers and go potential potential potential opportunity. Opportunity Opportunity 'cause I can quickly do the numbers. Four thirty evaluation on one probably six thirty on the other. That's a million in sixty. We've got a three fifty in debt. Five hundred so at fifty. So that's that's the overall he refers to Satan but he's not factoring in the money. So this is this is also really important for people to understand because we assume that people might understand this so our job is to sort of explain that your your Elvia your loan to value ratio when you focusing on that three twenty of offset. These actually true. Data's really five thirty. So if you WanNa take that three twenty and plug that into alone then. Effectively is only five thirty. Which means you're you've Elvia is fifty percent now. Let's just sit back and white until we get a little bit more equity in the properties but none what we need to be doing. Is these guys have an amazing opportunity? Scott and code have an amazing opportunity to to accelerate that into what that looks like a little however it comes back to personal gulls. What's your goal here? What do you want to achieve? We can make more money for this. There's no doubt there's a massive opportunity here you have. You have money. That's not working hard for you. You could have money. That could be working significantly hard for you and Theresa so it's important to understand that and then it is about you know look you. You've obviously very Conservative with spending you've documented that force so really strong incomes to seventy gross income. Bond What do you want to do? I mean if you're not leaving big law Saul and you don't want to leave that big loss all in retirement then you probably could just Cape siphoning pilates too often that seat but if you want one hundred thousand dollars in Pasadena come you WanNa have you know I really you know travel. You're six months of the euro twelve months in the never have to worry about money and having true what we call financial peace and financial freedom. Then we can. There's more work that can be done here that you know we can that wealth accumulation here for you and you could. You could be investing and the fact that you've got to in w why means you could also look at bodice? You could look a borderless Ben. I think it comes down to point of view doesn't because we sit here we go. Oh my gosh. So the first question that ought one and from Scott. What's your risk profile? Because and is being in the Bush Sacrifice to you because I know a lot of people in West in Stride. I give up going living in Perth for example so that they can go to a mining town or whatever and big box. 'cause they're on big box but so odd odd question to you. What fruit from that sacrifice do you want? Yeah is the fruit from the sacrifice. Knowing that you've got plenty of cash in the bank any sort of world shock x-factor event that happens a Shia. You don't have to lose a wink of sleep. Well then that's one thing versus someone who says I look at the sacrifice and I really WanNa make it to the best financial advantage that I can't waste adjusting at a fifty percent. This is definitely opportunity for you. But it's interesting that Well all I would like to know what your risk profile is to be honest this clearly. I mean you could with the three hundred and twenty thousand dollars you could actually be Boeing property. That's pretty good you cash for that Still Preserving the the cash in a very moderate risk Set that you cash surplus seeing Iran that sort of thirty seven and a half thousand dollars per annum because of its seventy five thousand more they were gonNA have. There's nothing that one hundred fifty two. Okay so that's got to half a million of course is H E and my bad. I'm thinking over the next couple of years now. So so how people are now. You're calling support. And then sometimes it takes a little off catch up so it's it then comes down to like risk profile. What are you going to do for the kids? What do you want to do for your nine psych? What do you WANNA do? Do you want to build up? I A wealth vice that could potentially set up a trust for the next generation of you'll lean that will go and be all schooled and giving them the best opportunity knowing that the work that you've done is set up you'll your future generations that could be interest to you. It could be none. I WANNA have a private Butler on the two weeks because we work really had. We've might sacrifices. We're GonNa Bush and I want to have a private Butler on the QA. Travel around the world for Ya and see all these amazing things that I've been reading about whilst being in the Bush or whatever it is so so once you understand your y in terms of what your motivation is that they in car lights to why you would do this because quite frankly just keep doing what you're doing and you're gonNA have a comfortable to the war Tom. And if you've got comfortable living standards If you WANNA have improving standards or you want to reward yourself for this delight gratification then potentially got up to To fast track your wealth accumulation if you want to retire earlier. That's also a possibility here because the levers we've got you've got really strong income expenditures low. So it's it's time and target that we're going after in terms of what we're trying to do and if you targets big because you wanNA leave a significant legacy to two kids or it's all about playing it forward or whatever that is you've got an opportunity here. What a great story. So I remember what the game is for financial freedom where you'll passive income. You're acting come. This is Robert Kiyosaki classic from US Richard. Porta you'll passive income is greater than your expenses. Now you've said your expenses small so therefore your your definition of financial freedom could come up very very quickly. That's what you continue to want to do going forward in particular as you retire at some of that did so folks there is. There is some really good opportunity here for you. And there's opportunity for our community to say to that That on on underutilized assets could be costing you money. You Judy cost. So if your risk profile allows Scott Ansari's or think there's opportunity potentially add more assets that that's the point. The point being is thank you for Rachel. Career would have been but now confident enough of that. He's been seen a few right where people and coming out of my sort of a shelter pet fossil. The people driven by boss much more than just having more money in the bank. But if that's if that's happy with you but if you want some fruit for the sacrifice that he was able to target highlights lost one Ben Is From David? Hi Ben and Brost really been enjoying the podcast of being a bit of a unique question. At the moment I live with our parents and twenties. I'm looking to subdivide. A bit of their land as housing prices are too expensive for a single income. I was wondering if I classify for the first time boys grant if I build on their land and whether the actual certificate of taller transfer needs to come onto my name or it can remain in. Then she's a I think there's a there's just clarification here on the actual ownership of total is on the land itself. Not on the improvements on the land. So you need to own title of land or Strada if it's not freehold All different types of ownership but ultimately that needs transferring Joan. I'm so you cannot say I want to the first grant because I'm GonNa Welling which is referred to as an improvement on the land not. It's a simple answer that the total mass transfer into you and I and if it does that he's a transaction that's occurring and under those circumstances this will be your first parcel of land of which you will be building your on high on which will allow you to potentially excess the grant so long as you take ownership of and you'll site by the The steam judy on the transfer of that land as it is valued at that time. The end enough said well he's had been logged it so hopefully that's helped you dive and thank you for your question. Thank you for yours to Scott and Theresa We also had a great question from Craig. Ben we also had one from Nikki from from Switzerland and Jack Regarding Brisbane versus Melbourne. So that was a bit of fun Ben just to kick off the year with Accu and I get them. Can you please keep them coming in? We love you. We will continue to do more and more than throughout the on a big twenty twenty that we go plan on the property. Catch Ben Mhlawuli. Yes now I'm not sure I've had incomes session with you but Andrew have both been slate preservers for with the kids. We love slave to the point where wife has bought two big walkout blinds. Whenever we go and stay somewhere. We talked traveling with this so we can put them up on. The wind is so the kids can actually not have sun beaming in at five o'clock in the morning because the risk with them whiting of FAW instead of seven Audi. I'm we We've had children that have slept from seven till seven been Seven PM seven am when younger listeners? Who just want to reach out and stab me right now because there are plenty of listeners. Who was struggling sleep? I WanNa side that friends avails. Who had kids before? I said you gotta read this book. It's called Cyber Sleep Z. Hole and it was all about how you get the kids into Asleep rhythm and we did it. We did it to the letter. I remember I remember. I'm telling this backstory to get fat guy so I'm with you. I'm curious as to whether it's still it's still works. So the kids have always been asleep is going to seventy seven and then But what happened is when Samuel came along who's just turned seven. Yep Andrew. On how you did it. Jack. Well-done we did a great job But we're just don't it's not going to say we're tired. I'm traveling I'm coming. Heim didn't awake ends up exhausted. She just gave me this. Look of my watch me Moss. Ladies in you watch me and so she did actually Transition Sammy to it. So that was just the background. The way always sleep with the kids. We've got this this What we call the kids hallway strategy been because we under no circumstances. Do we want the boys to fall asleep in the OPTIMA DOWN W wikipedia? So as you know we're GONNA drive up and down the Geelong Hallway. We'll take long trips so we have what we call Al Kids Hallway nine minutes strategy. Yeah so we do not want them both on technology raw for the entire trip because anyone who's got young kids office you'll learn this talent If your kids are in the cow watching off find for extended periods of Tom just walk the meltdown. When you get home and it's just horrific gratin. Say What we decided is if we're going to preserve the sleep from actual but we don't want them to be on an iphone. How do we save those two masters? So what we did is we now? Just give them one. Find men in hall one fine which I've got to swap between them so I have a nine minute strategy so I can do what they want for nine minutes and then we said it so the other person is watching the clock. Hoke brought to make sure that I thought was a mini goals. A little bit delayed gratification importantly than not falling asleep in his little kid rock. Because you're GONNA come to the point where Come on Samuel Jackson. Oh just WANNA finish the saw an after. This isn't working. So what are they now? Is This Jack. You you can't. However many minutes takes for Sam Deposit Ivy. You can get two minutes so you can take some of these. Tom Same has tried to install bra. Getting one of these minutes is brought up with dislike poke and strategies what we got delayed gratification. We've got mini goal setting then. Of course we we avoid the massive meltdowns that come with the overload of screen on and of course it The goal here which is what this is all about. It means that Andrianov up until ten thirty live with the kids watch so that's watching taking screens away from children. Because we're nice families where we wanna kids what she screened hall. But there's sometimes they're gonNA have the dickens around deciding everytime stopped filming. You now can't Nice did you. Did you not well a couple of quick one tonight? What are we got on? I twenty eighth to twenty twenty seven twenty twenty zero zero six. So the is that so so so before we move onto your other digital. You'RE GONNA acknowledging sorcery on that or is it just on the August Steve. Thank you for that work or do have another did united are prepared. Ilya did say to deny I. I got just a minute I got all. Let's tell the full story well in order for you and then couldn't say office. Kohl's the early podcast record. What's I saw it? I've laps with more meetings and I'll try to get there but it was fifteen so you were in here twenty clip out to read the question and then you've given me one of those that's okay. It doesn't matter that you've worked in light. Listen whereas you fully prepped. So I'm ready to go and carry on this Hang Rod. I've been and all this. Is it any different? Have you got your digital? And he just looked blank on all of the questions all my own understanding. I wasn't ready folks. Did you not. This is a source from our good friends that the REI real estate in student all of Australia. I thought we just got back on. In terms of the amount of investment lending going on bras having a chat. We were Last week a bad bitch. So where did it take it peaked? In June two thousand where investment lending rates for three percent of all new lending thing down. We talked about that being unsustainable. Remember the next month. We're talking about that. Not Forty three percent. Bicycling in terms of investment lending in terms of share of market. Now number two so historic average sock. I forty three percent was the historical average has been thirty. Four point four percent of lines the guy to investors so I was thirty three percent higher band think. Oh Yes. Not Bad broads. Good Job Number crunching thin- job with the demon and the last one just to Cape on track here. Thank you very much Current numbers only twenty five point six so portion of several plants currently going to invest is. Is that laws Very very long time we did. We did talk about that but what we think is a Lotta. That's actually come out of the new and sort of major density and they'll flip the plan and the hassle and packages are on the is offering. This is finally getting it which is great news Hopefully hopefully put Costlo thousand making contributions from some wrong decisions. And making some Ron Kuby Nas. Takeda that sort of level. So people DON GETS STUNG IN. Boeing is Density apartment blocks that are high modulus and build on mass. That's the stuff that doesn't perform side. They got some numbers around in this as it exchange from our friends at a real estate institute over strong strong furger been how did not know that thanks for the update affects. Hopefully that was helpful. Thanks to allies. They contribute hopefully hearing their stories. They questions helped you with. Maybe one of the questions that you might have had bit. If you've got something that you want us to handle the podcast go to office. Facebook INFO probably cavs is a whole range of wise to reach out to us But we up to tackle lows in an upcoming. I've been but until next week. Quick Little Plug fests residential property dot com that I remember a special twenty percent off. They say twenty four location score dot Com sub growth community to community so finishes at the end of February while I was giving a quick chat brush about knowledge is empowering but only if you act on it next week Flex Hi there folks. Bryce hold why he before you go if you're new to our community and the only listened to maybe a handful of episodes hourly recommend that you go all the way back to episode number one where we unpacked all the foundations when it comes to property investing for those of you that might be a little bit torn poor of good good news for you. We have a binge God you can download straightaway which summarizes the first twenty episodes. Where Ben and all I unpack the foundational pillars of the ABCD and so much more and you can get that straight away if you go to the catch dot com Dodi Ford Slash TPC twenty. You can download and consume it whenever you want. It's completely free and available now and for those of you just a quick reminder that nothing we've spoken about today constitutes financial advice. We recommend that you reach out to your license professional advisor so that you can look at your unique circumstances before acting any information. Don't forget go to the property. Catch DOT com forward slash. Tpc Twenty will be gone.

Melbourne Jack Australia Brisbane Ben Scott Ansari Growth Corridor Craig Heiko Switzerland advisor Nikki Nikki principal Jesse Jackson Sydney Theresa We Bush Chair Property Investors Counc Ben You
The Elephant has Left the Building Edition

The Promised Podcast

1:07:17 hr | 1 year ago

The Elephant has Left the Building Edition

"This is one this episode may contain explicit language welcome to the promise podcast cast brought to you on T. V. One the voice of the city that is home to researchers slow meet brandies Kepler. Yell Binyamini Ori Gold Board and Yariv Gaber always searchers Tel Aviv University who along with their colleague tile a scene of Shari Tadic Medical Center will publish in the forthcoming issue of the American Journal of of medicine a Soko study called frequency of sexual activity and long term survival after acute myocardial infarction which rich study found that for folks who have had a heart attack there is quote an inverse association between reported frequency of sexual activity and mortality to wit more sex less death or more stupid and less drooping or more coitus lex rigor mortis what the researchers did was follow for for twenty odd years one thousand one hundred twenty people under the age of sixty five discharged from eight hospitals in central Tel Aviv after suffering a heart attack asking them every so often often among other things how often they had sex forty two percent of the patients reported that before their heart attack they had sex at least once a week and six percent reported almost never having having sex a dozen years or so after their heart attacks only twenty one percent told researchers that they have sex once a week in twenty seven percent reported that they basically have no sex over the twenty odd years of study five hundred twenty four people died or forty seven percent of the cohort running the numbers the researchers found that folks who have sex once once a week after their heart attacks thirty seven percent lower mortality rate over the span of the Saudi than people who abstained entirely from sex of course correlation is not causation as buzzkill Professor Andrew Steptoe of University College London's Department of Behavioral Science and Health told Reuters. The result is hardly surprising because quote the people who are sexually active were also more likely to be in a relationship where younger and generally healthier and quote the Avoi- at the into that quote is implied not stated still the researchers who seem convinced that sex might extend the life of heart attack victims hypothesize several mechanisms that might make this true for one thing they right there is quote a positive association between sexual intimacy and tell them you're length and quote telomeres are the nuclear nuclear protein caps at the end of each strand of our DNA that protects our chromosomes like in everyone's favorite telomere metaphor the little plastic tips at the end of shoelaces although I prefer to think of them as Teeny DNA condoms another theory is that sex is correlated with higher secreted levels of testosterone which may protects against heart attack also the research note quote sexual activities a form of physical activity as it increases heart rate and blood pressure and inverse associations pertain between physical activity and mortality quote the researchers conclude that quote from a practical standpoint sex and sexuality after myocardial infarction should be targeted did for intervention and quote which is good news for the nearly half of heart attack patients who say they worry that sets will kill him and who may be happy to learn that the opposite is probably true. I should should add that while the promise podcast is generally recognized as authoritative source for medical information. If you've had a heart attack you might want to consult your doctor before making any sudden changes in your lifestyle or then again you might not and arguably nothing captures the spirit of the city we love so well. Tel Aviv Jaffa better than researchers research in for two and a half decades to demonstrate that the sex positivity that courses through the city like water through bodies after winter storm or like Cinderella Phil situated blood odd to the Corpora- cavern Osa will strengthen hearts bodies and souls with us in the studio today woman who wrote the book or edited it anyway on sex positivity and inclusivity at least as far as Trans Jews go I speak of course of the wonderful and one and only known as ever love and of the book she edited transgender the Jewish the forward of which by why you professor and poet Joy Ladin says of the days in which Trans Jews will be fully embraced by their communities quote we we can already see this future shining before us proclaiming like Moses Burning Bush. I will be end quote. Nomi a roving freelance journalist covering mostly Israel and the Palestinian territories she was in the past the Middle East correspondent for the Ford and the fords deputy culture editor and the editor of the sister had blog on women's issues occur multiple award winning writings have appeared in Salon the daily Beast Gernika the Wilson quarterly and lots of other places like wine at arts and I could go on and on you can follow her on twitter at Noma Wlov and you can meet some of your zillow via needs at Amazon. Dot Com no me what a pleasure to have you again how you doing. I'm great. Thanks for having me. We're so glad that you're here also with us in the studio is the founder of one of the most listened to Jewish podcast in South Korea about which podcast one Canadian listener wrote wrote quote this show gives me hope for the world and quote I speak of course of halpern and the show he created and Co hosts here on TV one the Tel Aviv Review Gilaad what is also an editor of the Tel Aviv review of books which you can find that tarb dot. Co that I l he has in the past been the managing editor of wine at News News Current Affairs Editor here at T. O. V. One radio assignments editor at our. It's copy editor at France twenty four Paris correspondent of wine at and before that a staff writer for Haaretz. He said he journalism in London and did his graduate work in politics in Paris. He lied how you doing. I'm very well. I'm glad I'm giving someone hopeful world. Yes hope for the world gives me hope for the pretty big compliment well. At least there's always knew someone. It is a great show. It is a great show. It's one of my favorite shows. My name is no effort. I don't mean to boast but the day before yesterday I was on a flight from New York to Tel Aviv that was filled to to the rafters with a group of high-spirited Yeshiva Booker's from Lakewood New Jersey one sitting next to me and it was in the middle of the night. The lights were off. I was dozing and was awakened by a very loud oude conversation between the kids standing in the eye on my left and the kids sitting to my right so I says I says I says I'm trying to sleep. Would you mind taking this conversation to the end of the plane and the kid in the I'll l. Look good and the and the kid in the seat look in the aisle and without a word to me. They just started talking again not bothering to actually say to me what was in any case obvious. You're not the boss of me and I'm. I'm not trying to brag when I say I've always felt that I carry myself with a certain dignity. Gravitas even in the dark at thirty five thousand feet. I must add that bound and gagged in the studio and we we are delighted to have such high class. Hostages are two favorite friends of the podcast. One is Gary Skolnick. Gary is the founder and CEO of neighborhood son and founder and president of Clean Curran's both dedicated to bringing clean energy to America's nation's capital and way beyond he is at the barricades needs of a solar revolution a John Valjean of green energy. What a pleasure it is to have you another of the promise favor people bound and gagged is Gabe no Abrhahm Tom a professor of philosophical anthropology political theory and ideology Critique and Co author of the case against academic boycotts of Israel as well as Soko Book subtitled subtitled Mark Twain in conversation with Nietzsche Freud and Marx if you ain't heard him go to listen to this story that he told the Shoe Bar on the latest episode of Y I we are delighted to have you back. Gabe come every week. Today we will discuss three topics of incomparable consequence but first we have this matter which is part part of an occasional series that we call the promise podcast venerates generations of valorous veterinarians. We learned this week of the death. At eighty nine of the man who in nineteen eighty-five five founded the correct school veterinary medicine of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem Israel's first and still only veterinary school. His name is common teric or panic in in Hebrew and historians remarkable and then again not at all remarkable perk was born in nineteen thirty in co ff no then the capital of Lithuania community of forty thousand us with forty shoals a Hebrew game nauseam high school Jewish hospital dozens of Jewish organizations and youth movements three daily Yiddish newspapers numerous Zionist China's organizations and the world famous Sloboda Yeshiva Common Perk was ten in June nineteen forty when the Soviet Union captured Kovno and exiled L. His mother's rich family along with all the other wealthy dues to Siberia for reeducation an act of violence that in the end save their lives. His father was in the hospital. When the Soviets came so perks family escaped the exile he was eleven and nine hundred forty one when Nazis captured the city. He and his family were moved to the Kothe no ghetto every day. We live there was a day of have resistance. He said we continue to exist. That was the greatest heroism perk was fourteen and nineteen forty four when the cove ghetto was immolated by Nazi soldiers and he and his family family were loaded into cattle cars. Everyone knew the trip was to a death camp. Perc said on the way one of the people in the car ripped the side the cables covering the small window on the side of the car gashing his hands and when he himself couldn't squeeze out perks mother said to him son. You looked like gentile. You were always mischievous and independent. You know how to make your way when this is over. Tell the people that you meet about our family knowing you'll do that makes it easier for us to die then his father lifted him up a fourteen year old stunted stunted by years in the ghetto so that he could slip out the narrow window. Perc said before I jumped from the car. We didn't cry or kiss. The separation was terrible. My father said to me and Yiddish words. I will never forget Kalinka dues outs Zayn. Mench common be a mench and he pushed me outside fourteen years old in shorts and a shirt. I jumped from the train to a hostile world perk lanier the trap without moving for a day or maybe two he lost track and then started to walk east along the tracks towards Russia. Shah telling you every met he was lost. Lithuanian kid named Kazuko in this way he survived the war as an itinerant when the fighting stopped and he learned that his mother died died in Stutthof and his father and doc how common perk wrote to his uncle his father's brother Mela perk who after a childhood hater tossed off religion and joined the Socialist Elissa Marathi or youth movement to prepare to move to Palestine Malek studied veterinary medicine. I in Vienna beginning in nineteen twenty seven and then as Austrian anti-semitism grew embarrassing where he stayed on to work in veterinary bacteriology and pathology lab until nineteen thirty six moving to Palestine then becoming the veterinarian of Parties Khanna's Akron Jakko Binyamina Angelina gave out other in one thousand nine hundred seven he was called to the Hebrew University to build a new lab to study disease and chickens and to teach chicken husbandry eventually heater in a world reputation for vitamin in their sorbic acid treatments that increase egg production for finding a cure for the scourge of Newcastle Disease Melk Perch by nineteen forty-five professor with sway way arranged for his nephew to receive a certificate allowing them to come legally to Palestine where he lived with his uncle and went to the Hebrew nauseam in Jerusalem then joined the lucky underground and fought in the battle of Jerusalem in the war of independence after that he went back to burn like his uncle two decades before to study veterinary medicine he did so he said because when he was a kid in the ghetto Nazi soldiers commanded that all the pets be brought to the art of an abandoned yeshiva where they tortured and killed the animals and left them to rot Perkin in his friends snuck back into the yard that night to give the animals a proper burial later perk found a pregnant bunny any raise her with her kids her babies freeing them in the woods. The day that the Germans set fire to ghetto perk became a world class expert in veterinary oncology neurology publishing canonical monograph on quote unquote cheap cheap pulmonary A. D. Mato Service and a pioneering study in the journal Nature on Camel Aretha sites and their role in water retention and hydration and much more as I said in one thousand nine hundred five he founded the country's first and only school of veterinary medicine. One of common perks boys Shimon Perk studied in Madrid to become a veterinarian this before before his father had founded the school here specializing like his great uncle in poultry then returning to Israel to head the regional laboratory for poultry diseases and Hadera in two thousand into he was invited to head the poultry and Fish Disease Division of the school that his father established in Jerusalem in two thousand twelve he became the Ministry of Agriculture's Chief Veterinarian the responsibility for poultry health a position that he held until he died suddenly two years ago there is a beautiful tribute to him in the Tober two thousand seventeen addition of meshack check hot. Oh vote magazine all of which I mentioned just because of its simple message that life goes on and on for for people and other living things of the three generations of perk veterinarians. We say fees crowned barrel today. Three topics topic won the elephant has left the building as folks here have long said that the Israeli Palestinian conflict is the elephant in the room but we've searched the platforms and advertisements and posts of the Party standing for election in just five weeks and found in most of them left right and center the Elephant. Ain't there at all we are Elephant Rhine. There is no mention of an elephant of the conflict at all this while groups like if not not now are trying to make the Palestinian Israeli conflict any shoe in the American elections although it is somewhat like listening for the Sherlock Holmes Ian Dog that didn't bark will wonder what explains the presence of this absence topic to the autocrat whisper as huge five story banners go up showing Prime Minister Netanyahu with Vladimir Putin Narendra under Modi and Donald Trump each banner bearing the words Netanyahu in another league wag say yeah a League of autocrats and even the Tony'll supporters wonder why those guys and not also say Angela Merkel or Emmanuel Macron will try to figure out what subliminal message the prime minister is trying to communicate with us and topic three three blessed are the right wing for there's are the beaches and cinemas with apologies to well. I guess Jesus as three Likud mayors break cranks and make history by starting Chabad bus service in their cities will ask why now and why is it the Likud that is leading this radical liberalising trend and for are most generous Patriot supporters this week in our extra special special extra segment. We're going to make the most of our great good fortune having delayed here and discuss his recent Tel Aviv review of books essay arguing that as international media collapsed around US English language media in Israel had a great renaissance. How is that for a dialectic professor. George Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel will try to understand the what and why of the matter with the author but before we get to any of that listen to this you of diplomacy Benny Aleka. Is that Bam Sir. Don't uh money hit. Many what's your. Thomas died in that song is badly lear code by Moti Tucker who may be the country's first Ethiopia the opium meteorically pop singer who went from supporting his family as a teen fil standing curiae Bialik when his father died to being at twenty three one of the country's great up and coming Ming Stars we will be listening to him over the course of the show but now it is time for our first discussion so Nomi I see about seven thousand online elections ads a day day. Why are none of them none of them about the Palestinian Israeli conflict so you're right and we at the promise podcast looked on facebook a thorough search. It's just so that you our listeners don't have to and on this virtual stroll around the social media platform we saw that what the candidates are saying is revealing thing not for what they're talking about but really for what they're not speaking about and I just want to walk you through a little bit of what we saw. Let's start with the centre-left left blue and white party. Their facebook page includes a video ad the asks. What sort of government will you elect an extremist government or responsible government a government that divides or one that unifies a government that takes care of Netanyahu or a government that takes care of you meanwhile on the page of the New Democratic Union Party one finds a video with a similar message acid- asking what are you support democracy or a BB accuracy atop the Labor Party's page. There's a video called for us. People come first and then on the right side of the political. I'll we find a recently cooed post reading by now it is clear that whoever does not vote for the Likud under Netanyahu's leadership is voting to oust the right wing government and and establish a left-wing government headed by the peed and guns and on and on and on a lot about bb a lot about the people a lot about the kind of government Israelis Elis. Wont but nothing really nothing about the conflict until we got to the page of Iowa head on her facebook page. We actually did find concrete on Crete statement on the issue. She's the head of the United Right list and she wrote that. She had the members of her list. Sign a declaration committing to the quote unity of the land of Israel L. and she explains quote. We are the only list that opposes the establishment of a Palestinian state and any withdrawal from the territories of the land of Israel so that's true you but also rather understates the facts because beside the Arab joint lists the other lists left right and center barely mentioned a Palestinian state or territorial withdrawal withdrawal or the occupation peace with the Palestinians we see this in the case of Likud blue and White Democratic Union Labor and Gesher and the others and and this odd silence about an issue that seems so important here and abroad is really something that's often bemoaned especially among peace activists but what's odd in normal times becomes comes positively bizarre during elections after all the question of the sovereignty of Palestinians over the West Bank and the fate of the Israeli settlements has long been the question end that demarcates right from the left but lately a bunch of second order questions have come to divide the political camps these questions over the status of the courts. It's the acceptability of foreign government funding for Israeli protest groups the desirability of laws that combat CDs whether government should fund art and culture that is anti Zionist Zionist and so on and so forth and you can hear candidates from all the parties speaking about these issues but in a way that only adds to the weirdness of the silence over the Israeli Palestinian conflict and after all the issues that folks on the left and to call issues of democracy are highly related. The foundational left right divide over the conflict. So why do these issues get discussed while the more fundamental issue is left undiscussed and what makes the absence all the more glaring is that the conflict may may turn out to be more of an issue in the upcoming American election than it is in the Israeli election. That's if the American Jewish protest group if not now gets its way this group recently announced that it aims to make the issue of Israel's occupation of the West Bank into an election issue for the candidates for the American presidency and this is of of course because the group sees it as just too important for American voters to ignore so why is it that the Israeli Palestinian conflict is not an election issue for candidates for the Knesset why do Israeli politicians and perhaps most Israelis not see it as too important to ignore. I think that it really the fact that the Israeli Palestinian conflict is not discussed is really a testament to Netanyahu's ideological victory and political victory because basically what he did was realized that dream of many Israelis and I'm talking certainly about the right wing but also large parts of the so called peace camp because if you look at the peace camp you know back even back in its heyday in the nineteen th and afterwards most of the people on the left have advocated for resolution for the Palestinian issue for the sake of Israel because they said it would benefit Israel it would benefit economically normally it would allow us to do other things rather than you know book get bogged down in the occupation but what Donyo did and I think it accounts largely accounts for his great popularity. I don't think there's ever been a prime minister in where he is now the longest serving ah prime minister in Israel's history but I don't remember especially not in modern Israel prime minister row politician who has been so consistently popular and reelected reelected time after time but what it means is that really gives Israelis the chance not to talk about the Palestinians and I I think it's not really why that is but really what it is that Netanyahu did that made us come to this to this point because except the very large and small small fringes in the peace camp that think that the occupation is immoral and has to be addressed because it has to end for most Israelis on the peace he his just maintaining the status quo. I'm pretty sure I'm absolutely sure I disagree with you. I WanNa make sure understand you is what you are saying that the left having argued for years that peace would be in the material and diplomatic cla matic best interest of Israel had is that view undercut in your view by Netanyahu's arguable diplomatic and economic success in the face of a lack of peace therefore basically the left has no no more voice because the position that we have advanced advanced for the last generation is one that seems to have been disproven. I think so yes absolutely I think that those people who talk about the Palestinian issue now talk about the future this is we have to do now so that in the future we will not become either an apartheid state or binational state. I mean this. They say it as some sort of like a guarantee of Zionism in the future rather than something that has the urgency to be addressed right now well. I'll how present my alternative theory and then I want to hear for you I I have. I think that this has two parts that contradict each other. Admittedly one is the basic vitkin China principle that that of which you cannot speak you must remain silent like basically I think that nobody has a viable peace plan on the left or the right and so consequently what is there to talk about that on the one hand and the second and contradictory point of view is that basically everyone knows where the parties stand stand and there's no electoral gain to be had for either side discussing their positions which are inevitably divisive but everyone knows. I know that if you elect Benny gone to be prime minister than he will make moves that he believes will encourage the Palestinians to come to negotiations in a way that might be fruitful and everyone knows that the Democratic Union will do something like that only more forcefully and everyone knows that that that has been Amir Peres position for the last thirty five years all of his political career and so it's not really sure absolutely I could be completely mistaken but but the the my what I'm suggesting anyway is that one of the reasons why you cannot talk about this is because we're like we're like all of our politicians are like members members of the rolling stones they like know each other and hate each other and but basically know each other's next move entirely. We all know who these people are and so they don't need to talk about this in order for it really to be something that we know what their positions are not. What do you think I think that gala is on to something that dente. Antony hours point for Netanyahu has been very successful in convincing the Israeli public that they can dan have a decent life without solving the conflict but I think that even deeper than that is the fact that the conflict is is a non on starter for broadly for the Israeli public. I think part of it is that you know aside from flare ups now and then Israelis certainly don't feel the conflict in a day to day way that Palestinians do I think that part of it is though a widespread belief that many Israelis rallies have about what the Gaza pullout attained you hear when I'm out reporting I just hear over and over again that we gave up land and we got rockets rockets and return and obviously the the reality of that in the history of that is so much more complicated but it's a simple story that I often hear repeated and not it just from the right. I think that there's a feeling that the conflict is not possible to solve and don't always hear Israeli saying that in a despairing way hey and I believe that politicians do not see it as a campaign message or an issue that they want to talk to constituents about because it's a nonstarter with people but my question for you then is why isn't the Likud speaking about it. If you're saying the Likud has been the wants to demonstrate that we can have a duke check occupation and we can. We can continue it ad infinitum. Why aren't they saying we solve this problem because I think the murky middle ground is more convenient than annexation or then two states is I think that the sort of status quo benefits benefits Netanyahu and that he's played it extremely well where when there is violence he can say you know. Only I can protect you from this violence and when there isn't he can also take credit for it. I absolutely agree with them. Yeah I think that Netanyahu is really straddling this ideological line within the right-wing one side that he champions which is the the status quo and the other one which is more accessions more. Greater Israel sort of right wing we know and I think that if he takes this genie out of the bottle he would have due to start reconciling the other side of the way if he sticks to the status quo he would have to say okay. This is the next thing the the West Bank and if he starts talking about about annexation he will have to reconcile the status quo part of his which suggests that the occupation is a problem for Israelis. Maybe Israelis left right and center. I think nobody denies that but it's much easier right now to bury your head in the sand and wait for took kingdom Komu okay. We're GONNA leave that there now listen to this team. Bluh Bluh made the upper team Boola Boola of Alani Moti Becca Way Way Way Way way back a guy are you you Glenn Gould. You'll be nearly alone W. Lenny in the middle the sale we live also that song is boom boom by Moti Takei now it is time for our second discussion so Gilaad wise Prime Minister Netanyahu so proud in particular Jenner of his chummy camaraderie with Putin Moldy and trump. No I would say that if I ever get tired of whatever it is that I'm doing now go into the restaurant the business and open an all you can eat restaurant opposite. Dizengoff Center and call it Kim Gorge because the only thing that would combine my two passions food and silly puns anyway next door to my to the side of my future. Business is the towering met so that the these the air fortress Likud's multi-storey Tel Aviv headquarters named after the founding father of revisionist Zionism Zev Shackleton Scheme other than the prime location and the ETA museum. That's on the premises. The building offers Likud precious entry advertising space on an easily noticeable Tel Aviv landmark of which the party takes advantage before every election and a huge banners have been rolled down from the top floor showing Prime Minister Netanyahu in the chummy comradery Rodri- of world leaders from Donald Trump to Vladimir Putin to Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi it says Netanyahu in another league framing Netanyahu as a prominent member of the most powerful decision making circles in the world but Netanyahu doesn't own capitalize on his inherent advantage as a long serving prime minister after all none of its challenges meet with world leaders on a regular basis except who who did when he was prime minister but that's something both he and we prefer to forget and also it's hardly unusual that the prime minister of Israel meets with the president of the United States right these banners in truth show leaders of a very particular kind which sends a subtle message when I'm not sure that subtle is the right word here but it is that Netanyahu is at the forefront of a new world order order populist autocratic power hungry that some people like those seated in this studio watch with dread but Netanyahu believes with with a great deal of justice to my mind that his support base watch with Glee and admiration after all the banners don't feature Angola McCall Colin Manual Macro and then Justin Trudeau neither did he use previous election campaigns pictures of him sitting with Obama. Now one of Netanyahu's main campaign messages here is that he's the autocrat whisper as you perfectly phrased it no a man who not only rides the waves of global populism but actually steers the ship with a great talent and heft or is it trying to say I'm I'm the only one who will defend Israel's interests from these crazy fickle bad asses. I mean that's also another way to look at it. So what what do you think what is is really the message that Netanyahu is trying to send here so there was a lot of ink spilled in the both Hebrew language and English language Israeli press around what but Netanyahu is actually trying to say and so I set out to see if we actually heard from Netanyahu one of his surrogates to explain what these posters are really about and what I found was in an article by Sin yes but Lova a former m. k. and writer in all monitor and she spoke to Likud's director of Foreign Relations Elliott Hussan about about the advertisements and he said that they were an attempt to highlight what he called Netanyahu's quote positive diplomatic tsunami and I found this phrase so fascinating because the phrase diplomatic soon Nami in the past had been used to talk about the possibility that Israel would become totally isolated waited on the world stage that you know if Israel didn't solve the conflict there was going to be a diplomatic soon nami where countries would halt their diplomatic relations with the country and now we have a Netanyahu surrogate talking about a positive diplomatic tsunami actually sort of turning the phrase around and Netanyahu's Lemme metaphor a four because very are not very positive positive right so he's calling it a positive diplomatic soon Nami and I so I I found this kind of doubly interesting one on the phrasing of it but then the other is that this is also a message that I that as reporter I'm constantly hearing from Netanyahu in his surrogates gets his about how Israel is forming diplomatic relations with countries that previously had shunted over the Israeli Palestinian conflict and there was kind of an interpretation that perhaps Netanyahu now who was promoting his his in the country standing around the world as a kind of distraction to not talk about the conflict but this seemed very outward facing to me like this was a message that was being pushed out through the foreign press that you know Israel has formed all these you know relationships with with various countries that used to be against it and now it seems like it's become an internal message in the election campaign so I really see it and and perhaps there's an interpretation that he's using this very positive. Is it a message to not deal with. What's going on internally? which is the cases against him the corruption investigation definitely? I think you're right that him presenting himself as this kind of Uber diplomat is him positioning himself in a completely positive light and also like you said Gilada a light that has has no competitors among his competitors but I completely disagree that his message is to these really public than I am like Vladimir Putin. I am myself an autocrat for a couple of reasons first of all. I just don't think that that would be very likely to appeal to Israeli voters or that. The people aw in the smoke filled rooms in Likud headquarters planning their advertising. We'll say how do we want to position ourselves. Yes we want us to be seen like Vladimir. Vladimir Putin likes strongmen vigorously anti-gay anti-democracy throw demonstrators in prisons and lock up the key. It just doesn't seem right. I think that more likely I mean probably he's saying different things to different people but I think that more likely he saying I am a person who is completely -pletely at home and welcomed everywhere around the world among the autocrats who you would expect to hate a democracy like Israel and among the Democrats Democrats in Western Europe and he gets that by emphasizing the worst asked people that he has in the world and that's Putin in that mody and trump is a more complicated case there because trump is in some circles in Israel popular and people have complicated views towards him but it seems to me that that's what he's trying to do which is a little bit. The opposite of what some people are saying like Oh trump is just trying to say. I am a Straw vote for me. I'm a strong man like Putin. Yeah I agree with you know surprisingly I think I think that what is trying to say is I'm the one who guarantees the current situation which is that Israel can continue to do whatever he wants without any sort of a backlash international diplomatic backlash and I think that you know for trump. It's the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and annexation of the Golan Heights for Putin. It's the everything that's going on in Syria but then I think it goes back to a very characteristic trait of Netanyahu which is taking credit for something. You shouldn't be taking credit for because someone should actually when these banners went up so I saw on twitter. I can't remember who it was who put put them up a similar banner from Syria of Putin with Bouchara Lozad and has an astrologer okay so it's the same kind of message coming from the different side and and also I think that taking credit for what's going on in India also narrow wasn't one of these banners but I think equally applies to Brazil now and to a certain extent and in the United States as well these are completely internal dynamics that have put these people in power and I don't think that Netanyahu can say to any one look at me that we are like you know like minded people now. The Indians love us now more than they ever did saying. If you had a bleeding heart person like like Bennigan's in the prime minister's residence then they wouldn't be so quick to embrace him in Moscow and in you know in India and Brazil. I think that that's what he's saying. I'm the person who can speak to everybody including the people that are not so accepted in the world stage but are so important because they are the wave of the future and international politics politics wave that we're trying successfully the ride and I'm the only one that can do it but we're also not seeing again. We're not seeing him on a poster with Merckel and I think that that's because that would the play terribly to his base right that he doesn't WanNa be seen as someone. Who's you know others might describe as more liberal or more you know he doesn't want to sort of cozy up to to the sort of more the liberal order right and I think we should pay attention to that as well. It never posted pictures of himself with Obama in previous election point. Well taken them now. Listen to this yeah. It's been delivered breath. Move over the bit in talk to me into uh-huh the biggest support Venison Venison do that song is to core by Moti Tuck. It was the official anthem of last year's pride celebrations and now it is time for third topic which we are calling with apologies to Jesus. Busted are the right wing for there. Ours are the beaches in cinemas and here's why in nineteen forty seven soon to be first prime minister of Israel. Dovey Ben Gurion sent a letter to ultra-orthodox leaders pledging aging that in exchange for their support for the incipient state the state among other things would observe Chabad as a weekly day of rest doing no public business on that day one sort of business that the state would not do. Ben Gordon wrote was public transportation which would stop an hour or two before sunset on Friday and resume and our two after sunset on Saturday. This commitment was part of a set of similar agreements one giving religious leaders monopoly over marriage and divorce law for example that became known here as the status quo. Oh seventy two years have passed and many things have changed in the country but one thing that hasn't changed is that you mostly cannot catch a city bus on the Sabbath Save Save in cities with Muslim or Christian majorities or in the case of Haifa a major if not majority presence for most of that time in most cities the political inviolability viability of running buses on Chabad has been a matter of faith ten years ago when I ran for city council on a platform that included starting municipal bus service on Saturday successfully ran. I must add longtime strongman secular leftist mayor own who they told me I was a populist liar liar or maybe a lying populist or maybe both who promised Gullible voters things that no one could possibly deliver when I asked why Tel Aviv Jaffa couldn't run its own buses on Chabad. He called me an idiot and said that it was against the law which maybe it was or maybe it wasn't depending on how you understand. The law still a year ago a Tiberius serious businessman Likud activist and blogger named Ron Kuby who founded the political blog we will lift Tiberius from the ashes ran for mayor of his hometown with the promise that he would start a municipal bus service on Chabad to take city dwellers and tourists to the beaches and back from the beaches and by Gum three months after he was elected. He did it his main motivation. Colby said was social justice. Starting Chabad bus service represents quote a social struggle so that people in Tiberius who cannot afford to own a private car. We'll be able to reach the Sea of Galilee on Chabad and quote Kobe. He also said that the reason other mayors didn't do the same thing is because they are quote unquote cowards. Well not all of them just a few months after Kobe started running his municipal bus the eleven year Likud mayor of Modine Maccabim re who time Bubbas announced that he was inaugurating Chabad bus lines to the Palmahim beach and to the cinema city the mega multiplex enrico not own Biba said that quote every city needs to choose its character our kids have everything here save one thing seashore this way they can get it and unquote also presumably they can get the entire. Marvel universe although the name of the bus line is Yom bus a Portmanteau of see and well bus then just last month the Likud mayor Rahm Gun Carmel Shama Hacohen two term Likud MK and once the Israeli Ambassador to the OECD shepherded through his city council bill to start about bus service for a three month pilot program and it took just weeks before lines were operating one taking folks from ramat-gan to the Tel love beaches on Chabad and another taking folks to area. Hospitals Ramat gun calls their service Sabas SA- Babu's Sabas a Portmanteau Portmanteau of the Hebrew word for cool SABA and well bus. Yom Bus and Sabas are by the way great names and for mayors interested did who may be seeking pun based Portman toes for their bus services we offer these as a free service from the promised podcast gratis no charge for transportation for folks seeking to hook up incubus for unreliable transportation to nearby spots of interest suck you bus for transportation to geometry seminars. Rom Bus for transportation to dipoto workshops. I am bus for transportation to puzzle solving events rebuts for transportation to universities syllabus for transportation do cloud watching events Nimbus in bus for transportation to museums of Archaic Firearms Harka bus or you could also say blunderbuss but I digress. It must be said that in each of the three cities I mentioned Tiberius Modine Maccabi route and rats gun ultra Orthodox politicians have met the introduction of Chabad bus service APOPLECTIC -ly swearing to make the mayor of each city city pay for his perfectly in Tiberius religious opposition made common cause with the secular opposition to the mayor and refused to pass the city budget forcing the city into receivership and probably really costing Kobe his job. It must also be said that Chabad public transportation such as it is is very limited taking people to the Pinko tells the boutiques and he's swinging hot spots spots but not necessarily to grandma Sarah who lives Cross town sill what has happened over the past six months for more than seven decades was considered abso fucking absolutely impossible unthinkable laughable utopian pie in the sky and that raises two questions for you one. Why is this happening now in both senses why not earlier why all and most fascinating be why our mayor from the Likud leading this transportation revolution now me. What do you think I'd I'd like to address question be well first. Let me say one thing about question I do. I think maybe it's question one. I think question question when it's happening now because it started happening and maybe there's a snowball effect and people and mayors see that this can be done but on the Likud question which is fascinating to me I think for me this has to do with the division between local and national politics and that politics on the local level is actually truly local and these unions and these relationships that we see on the national level between the Ultra Orthodox and the nationalist right. They're not the same on the local level in Israel. Local politics truly local even though you know these are members of the Likud these these are you know. Likud linked politicians and I do believe that these mayors are really responding to the public and they think that and they're right that this is a popular issue among voters and people want this and I think the economic framing is also really interesting. You know there's some of these mayors have talked about. How it's it's you know it's a way to save their constituents? You know money on gas or on a taxi to you know provide a service for families and for their kids to be able to have an outing on the weekend and in the case of Tiberius to reinvigorate the tourism industry within the city beay providing this. It's free by the way Tiberius glad. What do you think yeah well the thing about the status status quo the status quo is really a fine balance and when you you see that like one side perhaps as overdone it. There's always a backlash class and I think that if you look at the last few years the worst some more bold and blatant moves from the Haredi circles as the whole Komo Kalim the corner shop blow the quickie Mart Laar quickey law whatever that basically ended a situation whereby by the authorities were turning a blind eye to businesses that were open on Chabad and Haredi politicians were more adamant about clamping down on on these businesses and that created also a discursive sort of backlash. Were a lot more people coming out against already coercion or religious coercion but what you see now is how it has been translated into policy also in a very very limited manner and it comes from the local municipalities that are not as powerful of course as central government but still you see some sort of backlash and how these local politicians the mayor's trying as we said to ride the wave of popularity issues. Oh you know getting back sticking it up to the radium is within their own constituency now. The thing is that it's good on paper what we see now but the reason that it hasn't taken off really is not so much because there's so much regulation nation but because it's costly. I mean public. Transportation is something that can only exist with public funds and it's you know free buses in Tiberius is quite what an expenditure for municipality. That's not that wealthy. Tiberius everything is L- ranking pretty low socio economically and and you know at the end of the day there will be some people in Tiberius and we'll come back and say wait wait a second would spend all these millions on public transport on getting people to the beach each on Chabad but what about the welfare services that require funding et Cetera so. I don't think it's I think it's just short lived and basically you know politico. Oh potato nothing more than that. You think that these three cities are going to ultimately close this bus service and that no other cities are gonNA start. These I agree with Nomi. I think that this is the the beginning of a wave that goes in the opposite direction already in in Tel Aviv which has really firmly for years refused to go in this direction. They're starting to go in this direction and I think think soon. We're going to see it everywhere to me. It seems like one of the things we learn about learn from this. Is that our notion of the Likud which was forged in the image of national politics politics and it's somehow goes hand in hand with ultra-orthodox. Politics is just mistaken. Actually I think that mostly could members are just as against against what's called here religious coercion as people in the Labour Party and on on the left or almost as much so the Likud who'd calls itself a Liberal right-wing Party and in this sense at least I think they really are so in a way I think that the Likud mayors are have have found an issue that brings both their base and other people that normally wouldn't support them to support them and that it really is kind of a very natural roll position that they have been fearful to take for years and years because of fear that there'd be retaliation at the National Government at the national level why that fear has diminished lately is unclear to me and I have to believe that somewhere along the line. The Prime Minister has agreed to let these things happen. It seems seems like he is a vindictive enough and successful enough politician that were he to want to punish his party members who are mayors for doing this. He would be able to do it and I got to believe. He's sending a message to saying if you the populace including Likud voters who do not want any more to feel L. is though you cannot have public transportation on you know that it is coming and that we are we the Likud are going to provide it. I don't know why the why someone like grown thrown holiday of Tel Aviv. He runs in his own party. It's called Tel Aviv one but he's basically a Labor Party guy. I don't know why he refuses to do it. Because it's an he's an an upper middle class politician representing an upper middle class constituents need donate bosses. They can drive to the beach. This is making me think about a few years ago when I eligible trade was criticized for driving her car with her family on the Sabbath but also being against public transportation on the Sabbath and it was interesting because I think a lot of that criticism was from the left of calling her a hypocrite but I would imagine that some of her constituents as well would've looked at that and said you know you can afford in your maybe I don't know if it was her private car government paid for car two go take a trip on the weekend and we can't and I think people want to be able to travel on the weekends. You know with beyond in a private the car ultra-orthodox politicians are always saying the status quo is crumbling and that the secular position is winning the day and I'm not sure they're entirely wrong. I mean we'll wait-and-see now. Listen to this. The coverage to women's Mega Bucks a month dealer John once listen. You have some orval. Damon must league Romay Alibaba Tokens Miller. I admit uh Ma the only live sing that song is he have seen actually we've all been there by Moti Ataka and now it's time for another country. This is the part of the show in which each of us describe something that might have surprised amused delighted or enchanted source older. Maybe even fluked us as we winded our way through our world over the last little while it's your country now. This is quite remarkable story. It's a few months old. I know him supposed to say something about this week but I'll take the advantage. Antigen not having been here for a few months to recap well unlike many of my fellow journalists. I never thought my profession was noble. In any way it's always seemed to me like an echo chamber and even long before it became a buzzword devoted mainly to bread and circuses the pleasures of it few and far between we're mostly the indulgence in consuming zooming in good piece of writing or having one's intellectual interests peaked. I Never Thought Journalism certainly not my journalism could make a difference let alone change. Someone's life until I met Mera. Okay now rewind two thousand thirteen. I'm features editor at Haaretz and Ben Affleck's. ARGO is is touted to win the Oscars and my colleague Esther Solomon suggests that we run a story about the Israeli version of the events depicted in the movie the efforts efforts nail biting though eventually successful to rescue these several dozen Israelis who got stuck in Iran while these slamming revolution was raging my hi John was to find a freelancer to commission to write it. It didn't come easy not without reticence. I decided to volunteer myself. I remember clearly while was when a texted by then editor Charlotte halley quote. I know I'll regret it but I'll do it and quote and I did it quickly managed to track down General Taxation Exa give Israel's last military attache in Iran and interviewed him about the hair raising experiences that made four night the longest in his life as a military attache he had noted close ties to the upper echelons of this jars army among them to General Manager Haas Rod the commander of the paratroopers those were Gade who had been his guest in Israel several times and one of the most chilling scenes in segue story he sees Horford's execution live on TV. After the Revolutionary Council heard that he was planning to flee several hours earlier he had offered segued to come with him an invitation. He thankfully had to decline now. Fast forward to April this year I get an email from John Linden the director of the Alliance for Middle East Peace in Europe introducing me to Mera General homewards daughter. She tells me that you came across my story by accident and that it turned her life upside down. We agree to meet when she's in tel-aviv a few days later and she tells me the four story mirrors parents divorced when she was very young her father's demanding being military career left him fail time to spend with his daughter so who made the rule to take her on trips abroad. One of them was to Israel in one thousand nine hundred seventy eight the one was led by Segev. What ten year old mirror was the only delegate who wasn't a middle aged man in uniform that was particularly attractive to Yafaa. then a young Persian Bond Foreign Ministry employee who was assigned to the group and was equally unimpressed with its demographic makeup. The two became close and continual takes change letters until several months later when things started going south in Iran Mera will send to a boarding school in Switzerland never to come back and and she never saw her father again either then in two thousand thirteen she stumbled upon my heart story by accident while searching for someone else on nine she saw her father's name and and learned about Sega about whom she had not remembered anything to Jewish friend from Geneva who went to Israel several days later. She gave one instruction only get me. Stugotz gives number and he did then. She finally called him. Actually it was her husband who did not her because she was due nervous to do it but you had one thing in mind Jafar. Uh of course I remember Yaffa. Save answer down the line several days later. She wasn't a plane to Tel Aviv to meet him and WHO's now a pension. They're living in Herzliya. She also met with other Israelis who had known her father and planted a tree in his memory but the most emotional reunion was with the offer who had kept mirrors. Thank you note and letters all in Farsi forty years. Israel turn mirrors life upside down in more than one way during one of her now rather frequent visits she was persuaded to start be eight of hope an organization that supports Palestinian nonviolence and works to foster dialogue and build bridges this between Israelis and Palestinians and I have to say with pride leads all thanks to my laziness of not being able to find a freelancer to write this story story what country so I live in Jaffa the port city abutting Tel Aviv whereas of late a major construction project has snarled the daily life to make way for the Light Rail. That's going to connect Tel Aviv and its surrounding environs construction crews have completely dug up Jerusalem boulevard one of the main thoroughfares affairs in the city and the project was controversial before it even got started several months ago I reported on a group of activists who were lobbying to save around two dozen historic vicous his trees on Jerusalem Boulevard from being uprooted by construction and the story was interesting because it pitted environmentalists against an environmental project when it spilled the light we'll save hundreds of thousands of tons of carbon emissions every year in the end both the activists and the Light Rail Company one. The company found a way to save the trees and build the tracks at the same same time but now that the project is underway. It's business owners. Not Trees who are suffering because of construction cars and buses are no longer allowed on the street. The juice sky on the corner is bemoaning the lack of thirsty customers who used to get off the bus and walk straight his kiosk. The NUT GEIS's foot traffic is drastically down and yet while some are complaining. I have noticed something inspiring afoot on Jerusalem Boulevard. Lots of businesses are taking the construction as where entrepreneurial opportunity you see the construction is shielded from the street by a pair of long fences that hugged the sidewalks and it is on these fences that certain shopkeepers started hanging there wears the garden star guy has taken taken draping plants along the fence vintage clothing store guys now hanging jackets shirts and swim sits on it and one. McCullough even printed out along horizontal advertisement for coffee the and attached to the fence so all of this has turned Jerusalem boulevard into a colorful and lively outdoor market. I'll buy one in the middle of allowed industy construction zone and so even though I too am deeply annoyed by the construction which has made my own commute longer. I walked down Jerusalem boulevard with a smile marveling at what my neighbors in Jaffa are up to Oh. That's wonderful always the nut guys who suffer them apparently. GonNa open a another location inside the the flea market so we should flea markets crowded so I was out of town out of the country really for almost three weeks when I'm gone and most of the time when I'm here I think the city as a great stable unchanging setting an unmoved mover but there's always brief moment when I come back after I've in a way that I I see that the city like the people that I love here. I guess is really always changing so three weeks is not very long but summer is high construction and renovation season no rain to slow down work and when I walked to the gym this morning I saw that the electric bike store that closed down on the corner of the venue near Meow has now been replaced by a new place called Tim time massage the guys finishing the renovation told me that they would be done in a week or two and it would be open open for business walking up your meow toward Dizengoff a new quote unquote eyelash extensions studio named meese reese opened reese means eyelash Hebrew and it rhymes in Hebrew with miss so meese reese on it's door in Hebrew and Russian has a help wanted ad for eyelash experts to my shock. My favorite bar on the corner of your meow Dizengoff Rosa parks is closed and surrounded by rebel assign over what used to be the door reads. We started renovations still outside the place. There is a dog bowl in front of a sign with Rosa Parks portrait against the background of bones and pawprints. The bowl is filled with water. I guess because the owners figure it's not the dogs fault that their bar is being renovated across the street. There are palettes with sacks of cement powder that read Mr fix a pun I guess on the slang meaning of the word fix which means above reproach and the English meaning of the word fix these are in front of the few fine fine dining sushi place that Susan's parents frequent which has a sign on the window. We've moved to our new abode. Michigan Hush immediately round the corner a few steps away on Dizengoff as I stopped three sign nervous construction worker comes up and says to me. You're not from the city are you. I'm going to move this cement right away just across the street from that on the other side of your meow. Oh I see that they finally torn down the little old one story house that used to be there that was slated for destruction and a big truck. is they're taking away. The rubble from the roof of the building. Next door is a huge banner announcing the construction of a seven storey apartment building that will be named for some reason meeting further down the street just past the Ukrainian embassy. Take in a place where the fancy French Pizza Restaurant Philippe closed last winter a place that stayed empty all through the spring. There's now a new place called. Tony's he's boutique butchery. It has a wood barrel out in front for some reason after I work out I walked back and over on Dizengoff and I see that a new quickie mart has opened on the corner of nor Dow. It's called the Malka market which is a nice feminine. Maybe feminist answer to the Utah Market a-block away a little from there next to the Vegan shoe stop. A new storefront coffee window is opened. It's called Cube coffee because it's in a cube and if you go up to the window you see a meticulously laid out selection action of Pele detaille teas and elegant chocolates wrapped up in small cellophane bags. Everything in that place is just so it's just maybe two meters across by two meters. I order coffee and asked the man when he opened and he says two weeks ago and I say good luck and he says thanks when you come home. You notice things about your people. I- haircut a new shirt a cut. That's healed. Prick your heart that you weren't with them when this change happened but noticing these small changes is also intimate. This place is like a person even when things seem as solid as they can be. They're always changing. One of the pleasures of your place like the pleasures of your people is that these changes that you never choose only discover discover are part of Youtube even before you knew that they were there and that brings us the end of our show thanks that is the mirror unflappable engineer and woman of mystery and to meet Eskenazi our ingenious researcher can Sigli Ari and scholar not in residence thanks to tie Shalimar station manager without whom there'd be none of this thanks. She believed my favorite band from keyboards have a they give us a music at the start and the end of the show. Thank you know me Natalie and odd. Thank you for visiting Gary and Gabe we'd like to thank all of our Patriot supporters for your our generosity and support which keeps the show and the station going we are moved and we are grateful and we really are each and every day in your death and I'd like to thank the rest of you out there for taking the time time for listen. 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Direct Appeal

Direct Appeal

1:04:35 hr | 1 year ago

Direct Appeal

"If you're just tuning in we encourage you to go back and listen from episode one. This podcast may contain content. That is graphic and disturbing nature listener discretion is advised to submit a theory. A tip a question or comment please. Email us at tips at direct appeal. Podcasts DOT COM or. Call US and leave a voicemail at seven three two five one zero zero nine nine six previously on direct appeal mentally. I would find out that one of my attorneys was under federal investigation. That's when our defense went on fast. Four the experts dried up and all of a sudden. I wasn't testifying anymore. It turns out that Joe retained someone to prepare the clothes for him callous. I had known that I would have prepared the Damn powerpoint slides. I certainly you. Just let them with Patty's version of events and the courthouse was closed for the rest of the day. The State got all night to rewrite their closing. Her closing was so markedly different and so much stronger. Kind of terrified me before you know they give the verdict and I don't remember a lot after that. I expected the worst and what I got was just one step Shaw Parole eligible at the header. Age of one hundred one. This is episode. Fourteen direct appeal melania's now a convicted murderer the end of her story or the beginning of the next chapter. And I remember saying my kids my kids and I don't. I don't really remember much after that. I do remember being taken the county. I remember the psych there who I'd come to know fairly well and he said how are you feeling and I said I'm I'm going to hurt myself. And he says do you have a plan. I said Yeah I'm going to run and I'm GonNa make them shoot me so that earns me a ticket directly to An Klein which is a treatment facility for mental health and I spent two weeks. They're getting stabilized slightly. I remember waking up the next day I slept and I slept handcuffed to the bed and I remember them giving me a phone the next morning and calling my mother and just saw. I'd say I'm so sorry I'm so sorry because now all I'm thinking of his own my God the money the houses. How are my parents going to pay for this? Because now all of the properties get released. And now joe is GonNa want his eight hundred eighty thousand dollars. Oh my God my poor grandmother you know I started thinking about everything else and all I remember is our members calling my mom and saying. I'm sorry I'm just. I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I and she was crying too. She's like that you didn't you didn't do anything I said no doubt about. I'm sorry about how this all basically turned out and it was very in my mind kind of fatalistic. It was me like almost think about it. Was it was horrendous. It was absolutely horrendous and a month later I which I think it might have been dateline. Who knows that they all did stuff on this? I saw I was in the county and we were locked him but you could see television from the window and I looked down. I knew it was on couldn't hear it but I looked at this black and white still of my mother with her crying with her head on my shoulder. That just did that that just I if you had told me in the county at that point that the appeal. What's taking so long as it did. It took four years to get a full set of transcripts. If you had told me any of this that I would still be standing here going on starting my twelve here I. I don't think I would have been here. I don't. I don't think that I could have wrapped my head around. That survived it. At that point I was hanging on by a threat as it was at that point. They kept me in a home for about two weeks. Stabilized me sent me back to the county and I mean I was okay after that As okay as anybody can be. I imagine that happens to a lot of people who are convicted of murder or serious crimes and are facing life in prison. I imagine there's an or not innocent or not correct that there is a period of suicidal feelings and I have to imagine. This is not uncommon at all yet. Another thing she said that we didn't discuss yet is that when she was in county jails so she hasn't been transferred to prison yet. She was able to watch an episode of Dateline and she saw her mother and her father. And I've seen some of those interviews with her mother and father in there quite sad of course But I don't think Melanie actually participated in the dateline. She definitely participated in two shows. One of them was the McGuire diaries. And that was for forty eight hours and I think the second one was a twenty twenty so I asked her about these episodes and she said that Joe had wanted her to do them. She agreed to do it because it was from her point of view and she said according to Melanie that Joe's intention was to release them following her acquittal because he still believed this was going to be an acquittal. When we go back for a minute the McGuire diaries For people that have not seen the show. It's her doing a pretty much doing a chronology of what's going on every day when she gets home from trial right. It's a video diary video diary and I don't know about you. Meghan but I don't think this helped her. I mean not at the time of the trial. Obviously it was not released after the verdict but as far as the court of public opinion did not for the McGuire. Diaries helped her I it was supposed to be told from her point of view. They asked her to do it this way. Her opinion her feelings. But and it's available online. I believe you can get this on youtube snow and I wasn't you know it wasn't a huge fan of the Maguire diaries because I thought it came off again. It is her point of view. But it just comes off you know about about me and it feels narcissistic a little It's old he. No Yeah it did feel that way. You know in one episode. She's talking about. I have to make a decision but what I need to wear. Tomorrow it does help you see how small she is though is right now. I believe a tank top or something in one of the and are I just remember like her Upper Body? I'm looking at it saying. Oh wow she's really small yeah. She's very muscular. So it just I remember watching it thinking. She threw those suitcases over. No way you could call. It's just it just gives you an idea of more of her stature. I thought the second one was More objective that was the twenty twenty episode in which they're interviewing her and they're interviewing other people involved in the case and she's telling her story and that one and in that one. I mean I thought that was just fine. I don't know that any of these interviews help people I don't think so so I was watching it with my husband who doesn't know a lot of what's going on and he's think alligator tears. She's she's crying but there's no tears there you know he was calling bullshit a lot right and that's the part. That really sucks. I have to say about doing these interviews. It's the same thing. It's the same way in which they're looking at Melanie. Judging her during trial right gee smiles too much. She doesn't smile enough yet. He's wearing high heels. She's she do damned if she so even on the interview. I think it's the same thing and this is why I don't think it's helpful or it wasn't helpful because people are looking at are going now. She doesn't seem regretful. Enough sat enough. There's also parts where she's not making eye contact. She's looking to the side so a body language specialist might say. Oh she's lying but again we know that's not true exactly so yeah I also don't see why he wanted her to do this. These interviews. I'm not really sure I understand. She said that she's wanting to her. According to her that he thought this would be. You know these were great interviews to be released after the acquittal but knowing so my my thought here is he must have known clearly that they were going to release these no matter what yeah so was he by guess he figured if she was found guilty if anything it just gives him more publicity. I actually don't know I'm not really sure what the purpose here was. I actually smart. I'm sure there at this was calculated. I'm just not I have to imagine so too but I don't know the reason I actually thought that most criminal lawyers don't defendants to speak at all and yet way after a trial yet. So okay so. Melanie was able to see these Appearances and this was happening in her. First Day. She talks about her suicide watches. She I'm sorry. Did she regret doing those appearances? Yes she does yeah. She said that she wasn't really into it but again. Melanie said that there are a couple of things that she didn't really agree with but according to her. Look I'm I'm a criminal defendant for the first time. I'm not an attorney. I followed what my attorney said or what I thought was in the best advice. They were giving me so. She said she wasn't crazy about doing these shows. You really want to do them because Joe said you know. This might be good. She went okay. I'll do so okay. So melania is this is after the verdict in her first as a jail and she eventually is going to be transferred to Edna manned facility which is where she is serving her current sentence to the point. I just wanted to come to prison. I just let's just go or at the county filthy. If there's eight million people in and out like let's just get the show on the road. Sure Enough I got my my wish at center which have come to understand is pretty rare. They don't usually take you directly from there but they did and it was a Malay even getting in here. There's a road that lead them to the visiting trailer when you first. Come to edna man that someone with humor named Freedom Road and when you're driving down freedom road it's very bucolic and tree lines Anybody who looks at it online. It looks like there's a little sort of rural college campus And I assure you minimum not masks. At that point there was media up and down freedom road. And it's funny. One of the top was rookie at the time. He's a sergeant now and he said to me I will never forget. I was stationed on that. Rose I'd say we keep the media out and I remember thinking who the fuck is this chant in some ways so much worse than I can ever score and in some ways. It's up nearly as bad as people but obviously the hardship on like family. What it did to my parents between that and family court this changes you. This changes you in a way. I don't know that anybody ups back off okay. So Melanie's describing her first experience her first as an ad man. She said she was relieved to be transferred. There she's describing we've discussed once before which is freedom road The irony of that just. It's freedom for people going the other way right. It is but for the people going in who aren't going to get out. It's freedom road that leads to A. Maybe it's supposed to be like a little humor to a dark situation okay. Fine and Melanie's talking about her family as well. And I'd like to say that they they went through family court case as well so they went through family court. They went through this and they are court right. Did they not go through civil court Begnaud family court? Okay now I thought it was civil for something else. Okay family court for custody issues and then you know Criminal Court and they are pretty tough people. Today are still standing up. One thing I want to discuss before we move onto Melanie's next steps that I didn't discuss before is the jurors in this case. So Melanie talks about the verdict and being found guilty at one point when they were deliberating. We discuss on a previous episode. They were deliberating on this issue of non communications and when Melanie's team found that out they thought wow we're in good shape because if they are debating on this little stuff than they must have acquitted her in the big stuff which we now know wasn't true so the jurors in this case I thought it would be a good idea to contact them as well. It but in many cases many of the dateline episodes and other shows you'll see that a couple of jurors we'll speak so I contacted. None of them had spoken in any of the datelines are Johnny. Twenty S. You're saying in other cases it's commonplace. Sorry yes in other cases it is commonplace and I hadn't seen any coverage in when I spoke with Patti. Seo So the prosecutor she had asked me. Have you spoken with the jurors? And I said No. And she said they won't talk to you and I went. Okay maybe not Does she know something? I don't yeah but so I threw a lot of research and a lot of man hours and with the help of a friend I was able to get a list of the the you know. All of them Pretty much all of the Jersey and as much as I could get on recent contact information so I reached out to them in various different ways. Reach out to all of them. So there were I think I re- yeah which all There was like fourteen. I stay thing News yeah so they were excuse. I think I reached out twelve to fourteen well essentially and I reached out to the telephone facebook or email I received just so you know no responses from anyone but one woman answered her telephone when I called and I told her who I was and I'm not going to share her name. I told you who I was and why I was calling. And she was sort of incensed that I I would say she. She struck me as being. Livid that I- Karlovic then Patty when you call I so. This is interesting because for me. Her Energy Mirrored patties energy. I asked. Would you speak to me about this? And what she said was. I won't speak to you. And she said not now not tomorrow not ever and neither will anyone else on that jury and she said it with you know venom sort of and I said before I was about to hang up because you know I was okay. I get it. I said to mind if I just ask why I don't understand. And she said that is between me and the other jurors good luck. Click interesting is that I I understand so there. Are you know typically cases where jurors don't WANNA participate decline? I don't want to talk about this. That's not abnormal. Some Jersey and talk others won't what I thought was abnormal about. This was the intent anger that she felt by my even asking about this and I actually thought it was a little bit strange. What she said about that is between me and the other jurors. So what do you make of all this because I agree that? I think it's weird but I'm having trouble formulating a hypothesis surrounding. So here's I thought about it. After my saddle day ruminated on and I just don't know is it right. Am I saying there's something like ominous or sinister going on here or is it just? They just made a pact that they would never talk about this. Or I don't Boorda part of me feels like maybe they've had some regrets afterwards. And they you know they are feeling some guilt and they were just like you know we're in this together and let's not talk to press. Let's promise each other like this is between us that sort of thing. Yeah but I felt it was weird. Yeah felt it was odd and it bothered me and it still bothers me a little angry and if she had said you know what? I really don't want to bring this back up. I really don't want to discuss. I would have been fine with it but again it was very and yes. She was wondering if she received a lot of increase so she was just angry. That people keep bothering me. But it's been well she eleven years. She hasn't received any in a while. I know that because she was like she was surprised at first like. Oh here we go again. It was. It was clear to me that had been some time since anyone had contacted her. So that was the jurors so we want to make it known that we reached out and attempted to speak to all the jurors but none would speak to us if anyone if any juror would like to. Please feel free to contact us. We would be very happy to hear from you on. We'd be happy to speak with you. And not only or record in anonymously as amy said so the jury did not speak to us but the jury deliberated they convicted Melanie. She's received her verdict. She's been housed at county. She was on Suicide Watch. And then she was transferred to Edna. Man which is where she serves her sentence now. So what is the next step in this process while the next step is her appeal? And that's really the next fight to help us understand. The appeals process because it is a process. We consulted criminal. Appellate Attorney. His name is John Satanic. I was a guest comedy twice on this case and I was what Ron Kuby was gray and the House with Nancy Grace. She was very nasty to May. She kept mispronouncing my name. I've been practicing criminal. Law Specializing appeals emotions. For thirty four years. And I've handled a lot of high profile cases I was on the case. That was the voice of New Jersey to your mom. Trial that was eighty six eighty eight. It was a longest federal trial in the United States. History at all twenty defendants were found not guilty and they wrote a book about it. The Voice of New Jersey and they made a movie about it. Find me guilty. Was the name of. It was with Vin diesel. I worked on Lawrence Simmons Case for twelve years. He was framed by the Patterson police for the doctor. Dr Murder My client large. Simmons said he was innocent from ninety was arrested and he was convicted in our life. And I won the case that I got this. You can see. This is the sentence case. Here's a soon as free after twenty three years as the family so John. Say cannock is a very interesting person. I have lots of experience. Lot have variants. He's over thirty years in Criminal Division in New Jersey. He's one of those guys who is one hundred percent into his all criminal law all the time and I have to say if I need an appellate attorney this would be the guy I want to see We met Actually. I met at his house but he uses. He has office in his basement is his office. And it's the coolest I mean. He's got news clips everywhere and I mean. It's like you know I could've spent hours. Probably just looking around his basement. So he's got a ton of experience not only that I actually found him because he did as he said he did. Brief Commentating one or two days on the McGuire trial And so I contacted him and reached out and he was more than happy to help and more than happy to talk to us and he's had you know he had some very famous cases. You know he's been in New Jersey. He's done a lot of work. He'll what what was his commentary on. Melanie's case always got a lot of commentary on. I'm sorry we'll get there. She's jumping the gun. But I I guess I just wanted you to know who John Satanic is. You know he is someone who's been around. He knows New Jersey Law. He knows the appellate process. He's been in it a hundred times. You'll hear him talk a little bit about his experience and he talks about as we go through. This process his experience at the various steps that Melanie is actually going through. So I think he's able to shed a little bit more light on this issue especially with the technical legal process here so okay so the first step for Melanie is what we call. The direct appeal a direct appeal. When you lose you direct appeal and then when you lose that you do what they call. Collateral appeal. Collateral appeal is used. You blame your lawyer for the fact that this trial lawyers for ineffective investigation or ineffective trial work or whatever Lincoln Melanie's case then appeal that if you lose you. Just keep appealing see the way it works in America you have a trial in Law Division Superior Court. Does the jury. That's a law division. If you lose you pal division and you have two or three judges they write a page. If you lose you ask the State Supreme Court of New Jersey to take the case. They rarely do this. If it's two to one they take it automatically. Or they have the grant certification have three of the seven. Justices say yes. It's a question of importance very rare if they take. It doesn't mean you win. It just means you get to go to the New Jersey Supreme Court so this is the first step a direct appeal in which she would appeal the issues at trial so decisions that the judge made in terms of allowing evidence not allowing evidence Allowing someone to testify not allowing them to testify so this is again. It's the first appeal and Jonah saying even if you get a hearing that doesn't mean you win an appeal. It means that they'll actually hear your case or your arguments and we are going to go through the major issues in her appeal. Did you ever question aiming I did so? John talked about three different levels of appeal correct. But we're only at the first one right now step right now and I know we'll get there but looking ahead. Melanie gets through all three. So Melanie is at the third statue now. Okay Okay so. The first step is the direct appeal and she gets a good firm. She's represented by Baker botts reputable reputable firm. Her lawyer is her primary lawyer. Believers Jamie Hillberg among others and I read through the appeal. We have access to all this and a lot of this. Is You know people can find this online but It was good He wrote a. They wrote a very strong appeal. And at this point her lawyers are still working with them. So you know what happens is when someone loses a criminal case when they move onto the appeal you get a new team. Your original lawyers. Don't represent you in the appellate process however Joe and Steve were still working with the new lawyers to help them with these issues on appeal so there is some laps. Mix THEM LOOK. Good if the case gets appealed. Well of course yeah. It helps and because they know they know the case of the. So what are the issues? Well we can't go through every single one but I'm going to talk about a couple of the significant issues on appeal so one of the issues in which she challenged was the expert in the garbage bag testimony so we talked about the garbage testimony We had to experts. There was Frank Ruiz and there was also a French scientist. Thomas Lesniak so they challenge it on a couple of grounds but one of the grounds was specifically that Tom Lesniak was not qualified in the area of plastics and that to mark analysis in which he was versed is a junk science so I agree with the latter point. I thought he was qualified. We'll the court qualified him. And that's what they said they him in. He didn't have credentials. He's a forensic scientist and he has some could. He has training in terms of tool-mark analysis. But what not plastic right and that was one of the main well. The two points one was that he. He's not a plastic expert and he really is not a plastics expert They said maybe handle plastics and a couple of chaos. But he's he. That's not his purview. But they qualified him in tool Markman analysis and said that he had certifications there and he worked on this before Is Turmeric Analysis? They junk science. Do we talk about this? Can you tell daddy it earlier? So a junk science is just science. That is not validated. dogs sniff testimony bite. Mark Analysis. There was a bullet matching There was that whole thing with. Fbi years ago so a lot of people believe it's like a quarter of wrongful or DNA wrongful convictions had junk science meaning that somebody testified to a science that was later discredited right Recently I saw that in the Bundy Degeorge the Bundy documentaries on. Okay so in the Bundy documentaries the one of the cases in which he was you realized you know his ship sank was when they brought someone on to talk about the Bite Mark Analysis and they were comparing it to his mouth and later that was highly discredited. Oh Yeah but in that case it really weighed heavily with the jurors and they said it and he knew this really fancy because you have someone in a lab coat up there who has all these credentials. Who is using big words telling the jury that this has to be the same bite mark. I mean there were cases of wrongful conviction in the Damien echols case. I believe they said it was human bite marks. It turned out it was animal marks. That's right so there's a lot of issues with the SAS raid. I take issue with this as well. I also think they said that Frank Ruis even though his purview was plastic when he was an expert in qualified as one. They said that he didn't run the right test so he said that he ran some of the initial tests the tests and sniff test. You would call them but they said he did not do. The right chemical tests less. I think they've lost ground on that one anyway. Because he was an expert would know what tests run. He would argue. I ran the test that I knew to run but The court disagreed either way. The court found that this was not. They did not acknowledge us as a point on appeal so just so the listeners understand on appeal you challenge different issues and the court can decide. What if any they are willing to here? Yeah that's right. Thank you right so they definitely said this was not an issue there. We're willing to the next one. Okay next thing. They challenged They challenged the court's decision not to let Marcy Paul testify challenge that as well. That's that's correct bills former wife and if you recall the court said she can testify. But she can't testify about the way in which bill left her because there was too much time removed. They challenged this and said that you know. Obviously this was ridiculous and that her testimony very relevant areas impact. The Appellate Court disagreed next day also challenged They challenge the lack of testimony by George Lowery. If you recall pay yes if you're caught. He was an acquaintance of bill. Who said that? Bill told him he wanted a gun but could not get one but that he was going to have his wife. Melanie take care of this for him. And the court said okay. We'll let him testify but the only thing he was allowed to testify to was the fact that I once had a conversation with bill. Mcguire about a gun the end so they took issue with this. Obviously that you know he wasn't allowed to say it was the court said or it was hearsay and they took significant issue on appeal. Was William McGuire spoke with George Lowrey and bill? He wanted to purchase a gun and he was not able to because he had a prior criminal record. He was going to have his wife secure that for him. And the court limited testimony to purchase of the firearm without specifics and the defense argued to hearsay exception state of mind and statement against interest and the Appellate Division ruled that bills. Alleged statements may have been an expression of then existing state of mind in January or February. Two thousand three but they were not a clear expression of a president tension or plan to have his wife by the gun either at that time or in the April. Two thousand four hundred. She bought the gun so they said saw what basically there's no linkage that he wanted her to buy it just because you know he he expressed an interest in needy one or getting one and so therefore if a statement against interest you have to show that it would subject to criminal prosecution of penalties. That's that's how the hearsay exception is met. He'd be violating. The you know getting his wife to help him vilely. The law of a victim fell and not having a weapon and they said that wasn't the case here wasn't shown but they also said quote even if the original idea came from bill de facto did not negate the prosecutors ballistics evidence identifying the gun. Defendant ball with the bullets found in Bill's body or that defending conceal her purchase even after bill's disappearance and the discovery of his murder so again. It's kind of like a so walk thing harmless error right so there pretty much saying you. It was a harmless error anyway. No they didn't say it was an error. They didn't know they're saying even if so. If I'm understanding correctly they're saying number one. It was hearsay right so court. Yeah Allowance Though. They say they said it was hearsay. But it sounds like it's also saying that even if he was entered in. It doesn't matter because the ballistics are strong enough to override. It sounded like yes but we don't WANNA use homeless okay because that's not the legal okay and that will come into play later but I will get rid of that but come on. Yeah On the ballistics by the way aren't even that strong. In my opinion we've covered here but the court know that in fairness yeah come on this guy again. I was strong on this last time. The court doesn't think this is an issue that this guy who has no dog in this fight is going to say that Bill. Mcguire told me just a few months before the murder that he wanted to buy a gun but he couldn't so he was going to ask his wife to buy one lens direct support to mention. This should have been an issue. I I agree. The court did not agree the court again. They are not granting this issue. They are not going to hear anything more on this issue. There's no so they're saying no error. No error maybe the next one maybe the next one. Amy All right so Another issue on appeal here becomes prosecutorial misconduct so this relates to what we just talked about about. George Lowrey which is Kinda why? I kinda backed them up next to each other bay challenge the prosecutor's argument that George Lower statement be excluded because she later argued in summation that Mr Lowery did not testify. That bill wanted a gun when in fact she knew that that was going to be what he would testify to. Is that misconduct strategy? So Yeah I you know I don't know. Do you understand the point that I told me JANSA appoint so. She argued very adamantly that she knew what George was going to testify to so she argued. This is hearsay. We gotTA keep us out. We gotta keep this out and then later in her summation she says well. You didn't hear Mr Lowery testify that you know. Bill wanted to purchase a gun. I mean it's slimy but is it strategy or misconduct well. Let's hear what John has to say about it. Summations evidence and the juries are always instructed in the final judges instructions. That summations are only argument and not evidence and that's why they could get away with a lot. It has to be very bad. I've got one appeals with improper summation but because of the fact that juries are always instructed that it's just argument and and rhetoric and the states theory it's harmless czar. That's what they always find. And this is what the Appellate Division held in Melanie's case unlike the cases cited in which prosecutorial misconduct was found and defendant's convictions of reverse lowery's PROPO- testimony was promptly found by the trial judge to be both inadmissible and unreliable. There was no reliable evidence that bill wanted the Fed at the by the gun for him so it was harmless in the context of the entire summation. And that's the biggest problem when you're doing an appeal. Nobody's entitled to a perfect trial. You're entitled to a fair trial the bottom line and this is the problem for Melanie with this issue. She's convicted. It's a different dynamic than arguing about it before a trial convicted again harvest. A tough started to get over and the jury decided you have to really fi a bad legal ever dell so. I just want to make clear that summation is closing argument. Right okay and they are allowed some creative license in summation and the jury's instructed that's not evidence so they're allowed were latitude I would say. That's why it's considered harmless not misconduct. That's why it's not considering misconduct it even if I think we describe this but even if it's an error that maybe she shouldn't have said some of the things that she said. The judge found that it was a harmless error. Meaning that it didn't impact the ultimate outcome the judge in this. So we'll say the judge did take or the appellate. Sorry the Appellate Court did take issue with some of Paddy's summations prosecutors summation. She made some claims that were not established by the evidence. Such as fact that bill's body was probably stored in a shower stall in ice or in a refrigerator She made some claims that bill would have known to raise his Internet history because he was a computer tech. But these issues did not outcome the ultimate decision and therefore defense counsel also. I'm sorry therefore they were harmless error and also what the state argued or later on in with these issues later on the state gets a chance to respond. And they said you know. So what if I if I said this I was being creative and you know what defense could have objected while I was making these statements and they didn't and that's true. Now what Melanie had said. I think Melanie brought this up in our interview. At one point I know I asked her about it about whether or not Joe objected and she had said one point like she was kicking Josephine object and he was saying no. It makes us look weak or it doesn't make us look into object and that's just according to Melanie So I guess there's reasons again. Trial Strategy Him. If you stand up an object objection objection then. It looks like you're yeah. I'm not sure I guess you should be defensive. You're right cheesy joke Sog's Eva so you're saying the court did take issue with some of Patty summation but that's they didn't take enough issued a grant and appealed. No they just had like yeah. I see what you're saying. They said it was harmless error. Okay so they said there was some error and that they thought in a couple instances she probably went a little too far but not so far that it impacted the outcome and not so far that they would have a hearing about tae so next claim next claim I actually think is possibly one that she has A stronger case for maybe not in this appeal by her next claim that the jury was exposed to inflammatory media coverage. So what does that mean well? Some jurors apparently had heard some of the comments described in the media about themselves and discussed it so I looked at like all the transcripts on this and you know apparently a couple of people had heard one juror heard that she was being or she or he was being described as you know the ones with the one with the heart is or you know. They were being described or dubbed someway in the media by certain people So they had some exposure to that and remember they're not supposed to be exposed in all to outside media and W- supposedly the defense found That there were some blogger comments that they thought came from a juror but when they later investigated the prosecution couldn't locate any of them so either they couldn't locate them or they were removed already him. there was also a an instance where the fourteenth juror was excused. Asked to be excused right at the end because I think she had a flood in her house or something of that nature something. Chetta attend to at home and she left a note on one of the other jurors hearts and I guess that I don't know specifically what the note contained on. It was kind of like I hope you make the right decision and then a couple of other things but apparently some of the other jurors saw it so they had some exposure to you know Outside media influence. And what happened was that I guess the judge question them and he was satisfied that they had not knowingly violated the instructions not to seek out media coverage He also said well it's on court. Tv It's kind of like it's everywhere so they might be exposed But he felt that they were still able to render a verdict. So this is one of those instances again. This was on court. Tv This is a very very public case but this is an issue whether or not ju- juries are exposed to the influence. Are they tainted by some of this? The judge says no obviously Melanie's team is going to say absolutely so one of the questions we asked and I asked this of Johnson Kanak again. He's one of these people who who's done a lot of this and one of the questions I'll ask you. Amy Is should the judge subseque- stirred this jury? What do you think amy? I think we talked about this a little bit. We but now that I'm bringing this up on appeal. I just want your opinion. I think given the fact that it was such a high profile case and that it was televised. Yes absolutely okay. Because they've been. Juries have been sequestered in much Less public aces right. I would say less high profile. Yeah last high profile is out of thin. Can we say yes okay? So let's say comics just John Satanic has to say what I have had it on court. Tv No because it creates a whole host of possible problems but none of them were proven and again. The division went through the instances. And I think they actually subpoenaed court. Tv about it that message boards and they would every trial lawyer in the world wanted on court. Tv Yes criminal. Trial lawyers are are egotistical. It's not good to be on court. Tv because people are going to be talking about it and it only takes one person to say something bad could have ninety nine people saying Oh. She's presumably her constitution. Don't prejudge it and then you've got one person say something bad the Jersian here so when it shouldn't be court TV no if it's on court TV should they be. Yes that said. Jurors resent being sequester. Really screws up your life now. The in the as a thorough case I big trauma two-year trial. The government told the jurors they were going to be for six months to try was GONNA last six months. They're not sequestered and it lasted two years. At basically the jury resented that that the government had liked them the jury like hated and they found everybody. The whole Mafia family not guilty in fourteen hours. There was no meaningful deliberation as what they collect jury nullification it was the Oj Simpson case in a way that inures to yet she should've said let's have a sequestered jury because dragged out. They might have resented the government for that. You know that's probably what is your will take it out on but you know. This is idle speculation. It's up to the judge if it's televised correct as I understand that it is. Yeah but I think this was a really interesting point something that I never thought of because when we were talking about juries being sequestered I said Dan. It should have been sequestered and then John's bringing up a reality that I would never have known in. Which is you know. Sometimes. Juries resent that. They'll take it out on you and I'm sure Patty knows that not that it's up to her but who knows. We don't know what the relationship was between her and the judge. I like we have no idea. In terms of relationships in criminal courts are often times criminal judges and prosecutors will work several cases. Yeah so they have a working. We don't have any idea here. I still think I'm still GONNA go within the end that Mitch Sequester because it was on court. Tv however the the appellate court disagreed. And this is one of the last main issues. An so melanie loss. The direct appeal completely ineffective counsel is a violation of the Sixth Amendment Minute Constitution. Which says you have the right to effective counsel strickland. V Washington is a nineteen eighty-four case. It's a two prong test. First Prong you have to show that trial attorney. Performance was deficient and below the normal standard. That's the first prong you have to show now. The problem with proving the first Prong is almost everything is in office trial strategy. Almost everything put her on a Stan. Don't put on the stand trial strategy. Call this witness. Don't call that witness. Trial Strategy used US expert. Don't use this expert trial strategy. It's a very broad spectrum under the rubric of Trial Strategy. That's the first prong if you win the first prong that now there's cases where there was a death penalty case. I think at Texas where the lawyer fell asleep during the trial. So they said yeah he was ineffective on the first prong because falling asleep is below the normal standard of representation for your sleep but did he reach the Second Standard Prong which is prejudice and approve prejudice. You have to show that. There is a reasonable probability that but for trial counsel's errors. The result would have been different and they always say no in maladies case they did not find even a prima facie case that the first problem was met that her trial lawyer was deficient and they said they didn't get to the second problem that it wouldn't matter but they do say that in repeatedly they say that it wouldn't have made a difference all these errors. John is leading us into really our second stage or Melanie's next battle so stage. One is the direct appeal which she loses John is talking about ineffective counsel and that really comes in Stage two which is her next appeal and that's called the post conviction appeal so the post conviction appeals a little bit different than the post conviction appeal typically goes back to the court of the trial. And what you're appealing then our constitutional issues but the most common as I understand it is ineffective counsel so now is where the working relationship between you and council is no longer an issue right. We're not talking about Joe And Steve. Helping anymore because now the claim is that the reason they lost is that Joe were ineffective and John is explaining a standard. And it's a high standard to you. Know what he's saying is look this is. I mean I you know the the court ruled that when when a Jew. I'm sorry the court ruled that went to an attorney fell asleep on a death penalty case that was ineffective. So that's a high standard to attain. So now she moves on and she gets new lawyers here. Melanie's been assigned a number of lawyers in this In the post conviction appeal she began with lowest to Giulio who was In the Public Defenders Office and then she also moved on at one point to Michael Prior on So in this part they are focusing on the issue of ineffective counsel and they raised a number of issues things that Joe and Steve did wrong or should have done And so one of the issues that they raised here was that Joe did not call her mother as a witness and we talked about this. So they're saying that her mother would have provided an alibi witness and you know she would have provided a good one now whether or not that's true or not again. It's it's a strategy you know. He probably thought this is. They probably thought this is her mother. Of course that's ineffective. Yeah I would say that's a tough one strategy strategy and that's what John was saying also by the way everything that they're going to address here is going to be str- trial strategy call someone. Don't call them trial strategy so that was just one issue A second issue was that Don Zoo was not called as a witness. If you're a call Don's zoo was the neighbor. Who testified or signed an affidavit saying that she did hear an argument early one morning between a man and a woman so they said this was an error not calling zoo witness strategy right strategy. They hit him argued. Look what she has done. How would she have helped she? Couldn't you know say a time? She couldn't say she couldn't say You know all of these things so was that she could have introduced reasonable doubt. And that's all we needed. I think so. I mean we talked about this. I think this was a mistake. I think they should have called her By the way I'm going to go through these issues I'm not going to go through every single one of them but I'll hit. Most of the major point here third was that they should have called a maintenance supervisor. If you recall the maintenance supervisor of the building where Melania bill worked would have testified that you know. They had to clean the apartment and return their walls to the original white color to receive three thousand dollars security back which. Melanie claims was the reason that she cleaned the apartment and had people help and she painted the walls and not to cover a blood as the prosecution says with this. What made a big difference. I'm not sure this one would have. I think collectively like all these things. Add hoping something sticks because I don't think that one's even worth. Do they really think they're going to win on that point? I don't know I mean I'm sure they're making the points that are strongest but also throwing in ones that they think who were sufficient you know. I think they're pointing out. In general though amy that in one of the complaints was that. Joe Didn't call enough witnesses to support Melanie story and I don't think they're incorrect there. So this was one of them one of the next issues. They addressed a said that Joe did not retain Joe. And I say Joe I mean Joe and Steve. So the defense they did not retain a forensic accountant or other forensic experts so they didn't retain anyone for the crime scene to dispute and we spoke with. Jim Baroni about the crime scene and he was able to discuss all of the ways in which the prosecution's theory really didn't hold water and he would have been you know a similar type would have been a great expert on They're saying that they didn't call it. Forensic accountant again agree with that one. We talked about these. The these gaping disparities in the accounting in these huge deposits and huge withdrawals and gambling record. So why didn't they call a forensic account? Why didn't they get a forensic accountant? I think that's a huge issue so I think so too So again I think their their biggest issue here was that they didn't call enough expert. Witnesses and so they also said Ghetto Sally plastic expert right but she didn't come because they found her Or I'm sorry they didn't go out and actively find her she was so who's watching the trial and called in and said. Hey I can help you. But so they didn't retain a forensic accountant they didn't retain their own medical examiner on they did retain. But someone who wasn't very helpful was a ballistics expert But I don't think they thought he was the right. Ballistics expert of means And didn't address the proper issues they didn't retain anyone could speak to the crime scene. So the issue here is that there were a lot of missed expert. Witnesses that they could have used that they did not. And why did they not use them? Let's move onto the next point right. Well Okay so. This is part of it as well right so in the in the complaint. They are alleging that Joe did not call. Some of these are Joe. Possibly did not call some of these expert witnesses because of a change in their retainer agreement mid trial so what happened is as we know. These trials are extremely expensive. And YOU RUN OUT OF MONEY. So at some point In the trial Joe changes the agreement to say that he's going to assume all the costs until the end of the trial on Melanie's point later on and at the at the time she said okay. Yeah Yeah I mean. She's on trial for life. So I'M GONNA agree to anything you know. And she's saying later on at that basically is creating an interest if he has to pay for everything he's not going to call any witnesses technical experts but I I'm going to push back on that a little bit. Because at the end of the day he wants to win as much as. Melanie wants a win. Would you agree? He wants to win for sure But there's I guess she saying he's gotTa Balance The financial so would he? We don't want are important to him winning or I'm sure that winning was certainly important. I don't think that's you know in dispute Winning was definitely important but maybe he felt you know that he had done enough because he did a very good cross examination and he had discredited their case. But what are you felt that way? If he had more money to if he could have thrown more money would he have felt that way? You know Melanie says that creates an interest for him to cut down on experts. The court the court disagreed here. Judge forensic specifically found that there is no legal authority that the supplemental retainer agreement created a conflict of interest. Now argument obviously would be that. If you pay for the experts it's going to diminish your feet that's the inherent conflict so you'll be likely to not do that. He found. There's no legal authority so that's a problem when there's no legal already. There was another case. He cited which was distinguishable and you also found that the supplemental agreement was on March. Nine two thousand seven when the trial was already underway and he said discovery was complete and a witness was complete so he said that there was no certification from the trial attorney that additional experts were needed and additional experts. Had to be paid for now. How was Melanie going to get that? I mean how known this should have been a hearing and the trial attorneys should have been asked by you. Know THE COUNCIL. Did you broach this with the client? Because the judge says he should have submitted a certification. What lawyer is going to submit a certification? That's against his interests. The problem is that's the record now and this is what this judge found so this is kind of an important point just so you know. John was actually saying that he was surprised that the judge did not want to hear from the attorney on this issue on. He thought at the very least they were. GonNa to say you know what we're going to talk to Joe on this wire Steve and see what the you know. What was the deal with this? Like there's no authority on it but it's kind of a gray area but the judge didn't they now that you know they just didn't want they didn't grant a hearing on this issue and so ultimately We have one more one or two more issues and one of them. We've already discussed. And they said that Joe should have that. Joe Fail to sequester the jury. Which would have to agree with as well. I think that should have been a request but in the end melanie loses the she loses this post conviction appeal. She has a very uphill battle. Procedurally and biggest problem is that she lost the appeal in published opinion and she lost the PR without hearing and unfortunately for her. That was affirmed on appeal held vision without a remand forever injury here usually especially with the issue about her trial lawyer. Not Calling witnesses not getting experts Why he redid retainer agreement usually they would've and say explain it. Explain why you change things. Explain why you didn't go to the Public Defenders Office facility services because they could have done that they could've asked the public defender to pay for the experts. I'm sure Melanie McGuire didn't know that that she could have had the public. 'cause nobody knows it but that could have been done. Now I'm sure her trial they probably didn't broach that with her because she certainly would have said. Yes go ahead. If money's a problem asks the state to pay for my experts so you would have thought that the PR judge would have said. Let's let the lower explain. Did He tell her wind? He tell her. Why did he go? Transit delivery services but that wasn't even done and it was affirmed on appeal if she had had an evidence. You hear it and her attorney testify in a way that was clearly frivolous even though if the judge said well and you might not matter. At least you've been have a record of that. She doesn't have a record of that. It's very unusual for a federal. Judge ordered evidence. You're here habeas. It can't happen but it's very unlikely. So what he's saying now. Is that the last decision that one issue. Because they didn't hear it. It's pretty bad so now her record is that she's lost her direct appeal and they didn't want to hear any of the issues and she's also lost her post conviction appeal. And you say it doesn't look good. It doesn't look good when she goes to the federal system. Correct because that's where we're at now. This is the last step. And that's the Federal Census WanNa clarify a PCR's post conviction review right post conviction relief relief. Okay because he kept saying you're so right we use the the. What is it the acronyms a lot? He's in hit world but so he's saying now now she's moving on okay. This is the last step and just so everyone knows this is actually where Melania's right now. She's in the federal system. So when did she? When did they admit? When did she sits the federal system so she submitted her I I believe she submitted it about six months ago. And what's the average? Wait time any thought like. I'm wondering when she's expecting to hear back talk in a year five years. I mean not five years. I'd say closer. I don't know what the exact timing I'm going to say about her. There's no exact time either right I'd say about a year Probably about a year. Maybe I hear less so. She's in the federal process now. and hopeful should she be hopeful or issue? Hopeful is question actually curious. Both Melanie has maintained what I would call a pretty positive attitude. I have to say She speaks of things realistically but she's also. She's oddly optimistic. I would say you know. She's maybe that's all you know. Maybe it's all she has right. Like what what? What's the alternative? I Guess Yeah me. And no one's going to care but I would say she's optimistic so where she is now again. We are in the federal system in order to prevail on a Federal Habeas petition. Melanie McGuire must. Now show that. The State Court action is contrary to or involved an unreasonable application of clearly established law by the United States Supreme Court. So that would be a violation of the stricklin Fritz prong ineffective counsel. So it's a very tough thing again. It's contrary or involve unreasonable application of clearly established law. So as long as it's reasonable with these judges. Did she loses so. It's it's a tough standard for everybody. Not just her case. It's a nuanced thing as long as long as procedures are followed. That's all it has to be done very. Subjective it's very subjective of course yeah so with federal system the first step there's three court says the District Court there's the circuit court which is their version of an appeals court. And then there's the highest court which is the Supreme Court of last resort. That's it court of last resort. Got It So she's at the District Court in her judge judgeship and he'll make a decision on whether or not to hear the case John said that judgeship is one of the best judges so he said Una a positive note. You know this is she. He said it a number of times that she's got a really tough road. This is not an easy feat. It would be very rare to prevail on these grounds. You know. The odds aren't good. I asked him if this process is a fair one. So is this fair. Yeah because you get you get a lot of bite at the apple you get direct appeal you get the State Supreme Court to possibly take it you get a PR core you get a PR. Peo- you get a PR Supreme Court. You get a federal court you get Federal Third Circuit you get a United States Supreme Court so you got nine shots at the Apple. A lot of is arbitrary. And I you know anybody's intelligent and says you know we should have a good system of justice. It depends on the judges you get because I I've won cases this last year that I thought I could win. And I've Lost Case. I thought I had to win or had at least get a DNA here so you know it depends on on the judges and you have to just keep fighting and going on and on. She is going to have a problem because of the The standard that you know is going to be applied now and the fact that she's had several bites at the apple so John says that he thinks it's a fair process because there's kind of nine bites what he's saying and really that means there's three stages those three steps we talk about an each stage. Get three tries but so. I think about this. He described the you know the standard. By which you have to meet for Ineffective Counsel is basically your lawyer. Falling Asleep. So I'm like well. Yeah you get nine tries which seems like a lot but it's kind of like me getting nine tries to make that you know half court shot you know a pro basketball game. I get ninety tries. I'm not making that up. Doesn't matter if the odds are low they're low a. m saying if it's you get a Lotta tries planted unattended almost unattainable standard. This still fair. John also he added a little bit So he added his thoughts on. You know murder and you know what your odds are how you're how a person is going to prevail. And he talks specifically about murdering your spouse obviously wasn't a mob hit because the mouth is going to drive the Chesapeake Bay if the money. That was preposterous. You know the Mafia leave the body where it is okay. She thought he will just thinks it out. Professor Moriarty thinks it out. Professor Moriarty's is I have no crime scene. Nobody no weapon known mission. Those first four funding I tell everybody gotTA kill. Don't kill your wife don't kill you don't do. I tell them don't do but you gotta do it. Nobody NO WEAPON NO CRIME SCENE. No admission so she had no weapon so if they don't find a weapon it doesn't matter that they can't link her buying. There's no weapon that identified the body so she had outer deduced obviously chopping up and putting in three suitcases and Chesapeake Bay. That the point was never finding a body again. You always make one mistake always. That's what I tell people you know the old movie body. Mickey Rourke says you told me very decent crime is fifty ways to be get caught and you got to be a genius to think of forty five and a genius so I mean. There's always something wrong so I mean she's doing a checklist and she didn't think the weapon was going to be an issue. If they find a body it would not have been John's last thoughts on why Melanie is where she is But in all seriousness. We are at the end of the legal process for now. So now Melanie does await the decision of this Court Chu. Hiv can her? Is she very nervous? I know you said she's optimistic. Yeah yeah she's not the big one this. This is huge. This is really huge. They're all huge royal because every time you know if you lose this she can still appeal that decision and then I guess the He was John explained the process much better than I could. But I think he was saying basically circuit court could again and grabs a hearing. I think or ship reconsider it but still at every every time you use your running out. The clock is ticking. In your running out here But this is where we're at now So Melanie's in prison now. She's been there for approximately twelve years and she has discussed the impacts that this is actually had on her family and you know where her family is now and at this point her children or since her incarceration her children were raised by Bill. Sister Cindy and you know she. Melanie talks about the Impacts at this have had you know this has had on her family. Her family still believes in her innocence. They stand by her. But it's had a devastating impact on them. We have no money. We spent every single set of everything we ever had a good five hundred thousand dollars on this. I mean what are we going to deal daughter with two little boys and reclaim it kind of summed? It up you suggest to look at this almost like it's a major illness in your life. What would you do if you suffering from a major major almost going to sink? Everything my husband everything everything we did everything. So where was he murdered? That's what I WANNA know my daughter. If my daughter had shot him she would have been standing there with the gun like falling out of her hand screaming and crying first of all she wouldn't even know we've never had guns. We don't know anything about guns but to do what they said was done. There is no way no way I know her. I brought her up by gave birth to her. There is no way she would ever do that to the Father. If children either she would never do that. Never because that's boys living with that every day now not my daughter. No way no way. I think they zeroed in on Melanie. They didn't look anywhere else. And I think it was just the old case of leads to solve this case. And it's it's funny and it's not funny but when Melanie head. She met a girl in prison whose mother was a US marshal at one of the visits. The girl's mother said to her. You know it's not about who's innocent or guilty it's about a notch belts and that's a terrible thing to to think that our our system is like that but a lot of times it is where you're going how you're going to get there. The heck with the person and that's exactly what I think a lot of was I really do personally. I think it's a IT'S A. It's a waste of a very very intelligent giving person. That's jail right now. I just want to point out here. How is she's talking? She's talking about tunnel vision right when she said the prosecution. They only looked in one place. And that's the theme that I keep seeing. Is You know they didn't investigate anyone else. That was to me one of the major issues while we certainly don't know if they did because no one has been willing to speak with us as Remember the public knows right as Paul knows. We don't know what they looked into. Or what they did not But that is really why we are now going to turn to our audience and to our listeners. We are asking for your help as we have the whole time. And if you have any information about the evidence that we've discussed throughout the season we would love for you to submit to or email us at tips at direct appeal. Podcasts DOT COM. We also would like to hear from you About your possible theories or alternative theories about what happened to bill McGuire whether or not they support Melanie's guilt or innocence We would love to hear from you at the same email and what we're going to do is we're going to collect all of the evidence that you submit in We're going to review all of it and on the last episode. We are going to reveal our conclusions based on this investigation along with yours and this really brings us to the end. And now we're going to take a hiatus so that we can follow up on your tips which we thank you for sort through new information conduct additional interviews with people who've come forward and volunteer to help and explore potential alternative theories. We will return in the beginning of October with our final conclusions. In the meantime you can look out for the QNA with Melanie part to you. All had so many great questions that we have an entire new episode to bring to you. Thank you very much for listening and supporting direct appeal and thank you for those of you who have written in with questions impossible tips. We appreciate it and we encourage anyone else. Who has any information about this case to sue the same direct appeal is hosted by Megan Saxon? Amy Schlossberg our producer is James Varga. The Story Arc was written by Megan sacks music and underscore by desert media recorded mixed and edited by Justin crowd at JC studios. Special thanks to Allen Tuckerman whose work was integral to this production to view photos. Evidence and engage with other listeners. Visit Direct Appeal PODCAST DOT COM and follow us on Instagram facebook and twitter. If you have a tip you can submit through our website or by emailing tips at direct appeal. Podcast DOT COM. You can also help us out by leaving a five star review on Apple Itunes or wherever you listen. We met Stephen Pacheco of trace evidence. Podcast this year crime con his podcast released once a week focuses on unsolved murders and disappearances. He does a great job at breaking each case down and providing as much information as possible. We are big fans of his work. Here's a trailer for trace evidence. Hey this is steven. Pacheco the host of trace evidence a weekly true crime podcast focused on unsolved murders and disappearances each week. I explore a different unsolved case and take a deep dive into the victim. The events leading up to the crime every fact we know every question were left with and then a breakdown of the most popular theories revolving around that case each Monday a new episode comes out and there are more than eighty episodes of mysterious and fascinating cases to catch up on some. You've heard and many that you haven't if you're drawn to deep examinations of some of the most mysterious cases give trace evidence a listen available on apple podcasts spotify and all of your favorite podcasts yours visit trace dash evidence dot com for more information and. I hope you'll join me next week for another unsolved case on the next episode of trace evidence.

Lincoln Melanie Joe Fail John Satanic William McGuire attorney Amy All Appellate Court US Patty murder prosecutor New Jersey Bill trial attorney New Jersey Supreme Court Steve Appellate Division melania George Lowery
TFPP S2| Episode 49  Midfielder preview

The Fantasy Plonker Podcast

1:18:57 hr | 1 year ago

TFPP S2| Episode 49 Midfielder preview

"<music> <music> <music> bonjour everyone and welcome to another episode of the fantasy plunkett. Podcast is the show that helps any plum costs exceeding. If peo- i amy we're back for another episode. How are we feeling today. Yeah i'm feeling good. I'm feeling good unite so as our listeners should ni- are set up my way through account for yourself on swill yet at macy's i pay no here isn't it. Nine plunkett macy's plonker f._b._i. That's yeah so if you don't thank follower make sure to give her a follow and follow me as well at fantasy underscore plonker. I mean you don't really tweet in that much the minute you need to work o'connor yeah. I'll tell you mentioned in everyday you tweak. Let's wait a moment. It's way about what but the paper want to hear from me. A literally in the same day also signed two players. You're also fan also signed two players sue marked off a spurs fan and classic four off north would be muggers win. The same day is plenty to tweet about yeah and well done well done to yeah. I'm ready as of a tweet. Nah well posed protected and his own wife yet. You won't even you can't even give them a tooling. Hold on. I didn't even know the folks over into just now a link to the video and i did watch the video linked the video. I said have you watched. I said no you say the iso and <hes> kashani was shown kelecevic off. What you said arizona kosonen we're going to get not in class next steps in kicked off in salt weed out easy watch video and so it was classic but anyway anyway it doesn't matter now this is this is going to be a long episodes so we can't chat absolute waffle before the episode's even began yeah we up on twitter now so yeah and i just wanna say a messy. Frank keats everyone. He's following me so far considering. He was only south tuesday a income comany john one hundred seventeen lewis is good. I think that's really good considering not known as your following people. I mainly people fully you which again you shouldn't shouldn't really do and i just pay wash it off a pay who they should want to fully may i love you understand that much time for like unleash these people and tweet inside much stuff and i don't know what's going on every time i've gone to a lot five notifications of got like ten new followers of got messed us from paypal papal unleashed. She has no idea what's going on. I'm just a little inside but yet just find. 'em the plunger digest <hes> <hes> mike me aware that someone actually typed means something a name tag delo do fantasy pay clarify peo- gave you staw pack yet did not stop complete in easter. I wasn't talking it will yeah thank you at clara if peo- full that my lot lot clever thank you very much anyway. Let's dig into be episode. Then and laka said is going to be probably the longest episode of ever recorded so if you ain't a fan of the episode length just knowing that it's a one off the rest will be show our k- we don't wanna only since march lovely boise spoil our probably probably a few probably i mean why qua- ins tighening well. I am no now you'll club del if aside why so similar to loss episodes i'm going to break the players down into free agrees the premium million from twelve point four two nine mill the mid range from eight point five to six mil and in the budget range five and a half to four and a half it won't the every single player in the list not gonna talk about people at soli mall show children henderson relevant people. I'm going to be talking about how people of interest there's going to be about. Six your paper after talk about so. I'm not going to rush. I'm gonna take my time even over the windows the shut right now and we're going to sweat pollock's off buckle up for a big episodes that as the mid food preview i already the plunger are are you ready for this. Yes i'm ready a quickly. What did i actually before we into on the forwards tammy amihai brahim and the batman of communist seven since under forward preview not much to say on these guys all you because we don't know who's first choice and more importantly we we don't know if lamb posner rotate so funk bring any of their money we've also got joe linen at six mil the fully million-pound sanni for new car so so now for more of ready to be luck for me no taught player but i think that he's drawn from him. Being brazilian forward for huffing ham for more of sandy looks more like a run at player but again fixtures for new cars are bad in a minute so white nc on him and then also we've got children. Are you for crystal palace. Not someone we want for that. Does mike ma talk about connor wickham a bit null and void now because consi install in. That's it for the forwards now. Let's dive into the midfielder's and this kickoff with none of are the most saleh roy saw manly mandla mo or come to you first amy. What's your folks or most seller. I just love him. I actually love him going on the sick. Pay listeners do remember the last episodes. You didn't even have in many team yeah and i. I've actually been thinking about these shrive. I've now decided that my saleh we'll be mattamy because thinking really aggressive saleh. Who would i read more and has down each silo. Oh i'm going to spend a bit talking about before nabokov's. This is the most important paul of your team is the itchy captains issue peaked premiums and i spoke about kind kind alba an aquar- loss episode on going to slot touch on them again because you've got them free and then you've also got sal monae in sterling and look set ima- tips episodes a mentioned that you want to captains too imprecise to if you have any more than that you can have an unbalanced tame tame so between salar sterling monae alba kinda guero who's your favorite to me my favorites. Hey have got today saleh and sterling they wou- bay the ones i have in my tame. I'm not going to have you sam company now. Because i had the molar season as well and now we'll be starting this as i'm glad you said that because it is the obvious choice obviously a main the only big downside as not having a premium liam fullwood set will be hard to get to but saying that i still think he's worth economy. Everything perfect almost gonna give you guys some stats for all of these and let you decide who you like. The most i mean i'm going to pretty much ruled out mornay in this conversation because of a six guys saleh alabama morning and oberstar's. Let's go for it right now. Sailor twenty two goals and twelve assists in for a appearances while mani got twenty twenty two goals free assists in six appearances sailor scored two hundred fifty nine points last season while mon- i two hundred forty one now. The price gap between between the two has diminished because saleh was thirteen amman was nine five so there was a real argument to go morning over seller this season. It's just not there mornings eleven for sellers twelve five and if we go through all we underline stats saleh wins everything free point seven seven shots walks per game for seller monae comes in with three point five free north point six x g per nominee and no point two nine x apron on a for saleh which gives a combined nope point eight nine x g and exi- woeful monae who actually scored sixteen point seven six x g <music> over the course of the season which means he should have got sixteen goals but he got twenty two so we massively over performed his stats which immortalize is a worrying sign as well but he got zero point four on extra per nine eight and zero point fifteen x apron on a and on top of that money's coming back late for math corn so we may not even even play gang week one or effete does is not going to be fully fit so monet is a big avoids what we really want to be talking about is comparing sal aw and sterling manley brahim because this is where it gets a little bit more tricky obviously not tricky so with you have imposed. I meet you have any day while i'm talking about right now. Yeah obviously is x. G per ninety <hes> explain dynasty before when i say that like the amount of light times during the box and staff know x j means law expected goals so they way up the charts is you have you might be really good chance in a really hall chance and the ideology up to how many goals you should have gotten a gain and salaries of satanism by kuala yeah but you could insert stat different ways lack. Someone coulds school for a goals in a season but erects rex. She was only twenty so of seats implies really good finish up but does that mean they can keep up when a main difference her pre it yet but you'd think if they did radio one season they would want to carry on continuing to be really good to carry on the next season. Why not everyone wants to carry on being goods. Yeah i would might ourselves. Mike theirselves be as good as they were not our next season. I have no yeah no it here. We go talking about right now having a stroke i'm saying that i obviously they want to the damn radio last season. Why would you want to not not do exactly the same. If not more you would wanna do that when you one of them players so they can a push to be the best that they can be your your speech because do not okay. Let's just move on please. Let's move on. Let me to me because i'm not talk. Stats fingers levi's p. C. visit me in the corner right now. Yeah let's move onto sterling sterling at twelve mil- go seventeen goals fifteen assists law season twenty five bonus refer for parents says and he scored two hundred and thirty four points just free more the monnaie. He's my mind. He got two point four nine shots per game. We salute amani zero point five one extra per on a zero point free five five exit nine a which gives a combined zero point eight six which is just a touch under saleh now. If you wanna get right into the weeds sterling <unk> averaged eight point eight touches in the box while sal average eight point five shots in the box was salar two point five two sterling one point eight and saleh get zero point eight big sean is a game while sterling zero point six saleh oto beat sterling shots on target per game one point seven to one point point one so i think what the punk scene is that saleh will always in style related. Why are in sterling bah is too the now gave a floater stetzer like sterling got more touches in the box but shot more and sell a shot on target more so very different ways to interpret and just to give you some context with a guero and kind of gweru got six point seven touches in the box and three point eight shots in the books. We've one point free shots on talk it and kind of reached four point six touches in the box two point five shots in the box and one point six shots on target kind guerra five zero point eight big chances a game student. Get kind may still daiva guerra well of light up the stats you clean surplus that however you one personally leahy mom wines made up and salomon sterling inside his mind my mind is made up and mining sal in well. There is a novel option option. Some people were leaning towards and that's having seller and kane and then the bruin on going from sterling down to the pronoun which saves you two point five. Mill was your folks on katy. Amy i radio dot came into boy not at the being las as in he was actually my tame bah. He was quite injury. Prime was an ace. I hate imply that often. Marie had a massive injury law season but he played the insolvency overseas in before yeah and see. I was in in the loop by the at that point side. Don't you don't even know about the bruin on bono piece about boring and i know he is going <hes>. He's an absolute. Buller lists site out but he is not what's player. The broncos boys comes into play here because spoiler alert look into in a bit but when we compare pigan richarson or even stunning eriksen in a second or i prefer goal scorer i prefer charleston to seek the opera i onto ericsson offer sterling to join debris in edison. These guys are ballers but they tend to assist more than a score and all i like scores in f- peo- but nevertheless deployed is value think no one point five is very affordable for one of the the best players in the league. He only got two goals and free assist law season from eleven starts in eight bench appearances in the season before that we scored two hundred and nine points he was averaging two point eight nine shots per game which had pre hoya free point free six key parties per game and although he was only only averaging point fourteen g nine he was also averaging point six two x apron on so assists all real for the boy he could easily have a tango twentieth. See season to season so there is something to maybe think about if you do want to sell a cane and ab- ruina the game for me a do still lean towards sterling because sterling's a captain option deploy soa vine. We don't even know if the point is fully now jet but there is also another man in the premium bracket for manned ce and his leeway sonae <hes> sahn. I i love saw ni- all of sony as well i really love saw nai and tang those twelve six loss as in from twenty one starts and temp inch appearances he still had a good season even though he fell out of favor with pep guardiola and he's just shy aim i would love if pep said sony was gonna star are having my ever sterling for two point five mill less happily go sauna sterling for that sort of money saving but unfortunately leeway not now he may not even be able to start the season 'cause i'm unicol links so fortunately i cannot recommend him but less wrap up the premium bracket with the loss to midfielders annoy mil plus. Do you even know who they are. I guess they're not a poor depot east sonics and yes well done. I should have guessed after you just mentioned that we're going on <unk> on <hes> nordhoff mill is son. He got twelve goals isis. Law season scored one hundred fifty nine points infer a one appearances he averaged free point two free shots per game zero point three seven x g per on a and zero point one seven x eighty deeper nine a. and ericsson coming in half moon cheaper kgo eight goals twelve assists and one hundred sixty one points on the season from if other parent haven't sees so everton zone came very close together and erickson had two point six nine shots per nine a point eight cenex g per nine point point two six x april ninety now there are few things i wanna point out interestingly comparison between sewn and lucas mora who okay to in the mid price range because i combine play a stroke upfront. We've kind son average more touches in the books and lucas four point four. It's a free point five so in that saint stone is a pick but as we all know sewn suspended for the first two games so you what we're expecting is luke more to play the first two against villa and sits and then sewn to come in and luke maye loses place so so maybe c._b._s. Shell off the gang week free with ericsson a main if you asked me before they sold shapira always say eric says a complete vote. They sold trivia. Yes oh my go- west trivia gone affleck madrid's. What fuck another thing you've not told me about i. I can't give you every single update in football but you know trip. Here's probably someone not having mattamy moghadam clause. Put me think see. I tried recently in each. The city was we've made remarks to nine on said's east join another team. I didn't click now just shamed injured accomplish. I've only just found these out. Yeah well trips is gone now and this is good news for ericsson good news because they shared set pieces now with ericsson on corners and free-kicks doric to non direct offing ericsson's going to have a much season law season couple that with the fact that he's had no world cup this summer thing ericsson is very interesting. I personally tone after bollocks to gamble on him. In obvious no on million is big money but he's definitely want to watch for me and that just about does it for the premiums are no there was only seven guys her but now we're going to get onto the mid range and talk about a thousand guys so let's get into it and right they onto mid range eight point five meters six mil so many guys that get free right now and of course we're back to city. We've got moore's eight point five mill bernardo silva uh-huh meal and davidge silver seven point five any of these laws interests me me yet. I would definitely cy that benard. I and david david silva by have very interested. They did. I buy them for different points. Last season the both did quite wealthy as well but they won't be my first choice team this season but i'm pretty sure abu begin removing some point for at it raw saw you law them. You might have some point. Basically i'll really would like them but because of all my players and my will what what makes you think. Did you ever get him because i'll just do well but morris nah eight don't start a novel by sony leaves not a might play more aw wa. Would you pay more son. I don't even pay that much. I know that but you could just play more in general well he could but i i just ah night like for me. More is offered professor have wanted the silver's to be fair will mores to get seven goals four seasons nine hundred twenty points he had fourteen starts and thirteen sub appearances so a main that could improve but yeah eh we can't have him at this point in time it could be wants to watch if he does get more gang time bernardo silver mill offing everyone's thirst i drafts tend to have been auto seal 'voxy look and affordable play seven goals eight assists loss as in seventeen bonus points each total appoints one hundred and fifty four and this was all done infer six appearances got one point nine six shots per game point two six x g per nine and point two seven x abour nine less compare that with david silva whose hoffman cheaper he got six goals assis- so anyango longo less for him bonus a little bit less and scored a hundred and four free points he got twenty eight starts and five bench appearances he averaged every one point eight nine shots per game zero point free x g per nine eight and zero point free x. apron on so davick beat same same in the x g and exi- obviously he delivered slightly less but this will be dubbed loss ever season before he retires. I actually think to quite well so tavist silver for may tends to nick important go when you need him too while bernado for me even when he played right wing is no explosive enough is no explosive enough and affil- evolve a little bit more and go the bra but moving on ninsu the manual it goes and we go poker five more shower seven five alexi alexi sanchez at seven a. minu mine daniel james at six mil it. Can i just buy in right because i've actually been doing some research of my own. Now of all question wish i'll go question for you hung. Thank you forget my name. What by the way no for mr plunk cy my you know it was the fate you sure i'm sure i'll maybe in the creeks so my question as po poke blah. He doesn't <unk> anywhere. He's a great option. I eight point five mill. You're asking me a question yeah album so yeah offing. He's a great option eight point five live. He had his best season at united last year. We thirteen goals and nine cease said. Do you not think he's a good this tennessee. Sts o oh. I've done my research wrong. I'll have you what took it straight from. The f._b._i. Was saw f._b._i. Award this for things in assists sometimes from among oh you know what we need bounce off someone they get to see space. No real assists. I on probably and you're wrong. No i'm definitely what i do anyway from the game all right so my research isn't great d. So what do you think of poke bar mr plonker oh michael. I'm a why you just acted like you. Had you had a question for me. Oh you did was give you give me your phone which would have lost you anyway and then what what do you think should he prove teed off done a research and all. I'm trying to like show you how good i am annoyed. These being so your question for me is to weifeng of pope jose. Do you think that that's not do you think that's a really good choice to gain. Whoa whoa i want some law would've anyway because of an always plants down to talk about on the puck cost but i go and then now won't on i mean i'm glad you put some effort in thank k. actually appreciate and why don but yeah poke offer goes tennessee's law season season and scored one hundred and seven points in thirty four appearances he averaged three point one four shots per game point four seven x cheaper non and point fifteen excitement on a really do like polka as a pick. I mean really annoy we low penalties loss as and and miss a couple who was well but by all means could just as easily continue. We're not sure if all is going to do a new system and you can apply dae-pol almo- attack him. You just nov this moment in time of got my eyes firmly set on poke bar. I five autumn old i- bernardo at the same price point all day long young old along the thing is the fixtures fear nor aids all at one point last season though haley schley went crite lie everyone everyone just go. I mean and was captain name. 'cause he. Just style well yeah. I think it's because many many not eight manage sack didn't he. They got a new one in east. I pope rule time. Oh my god she remembers stoff repeatable satellite memory yeah great site yeah so he's got he's pine and as soon as he started paying all my that tame hey was going downhill and in polk budgets brought it back up to live took. I end up sick flaw season yeah yeah oh because of mr pai you pay. They seek faint good boy. He's not bad if they were top six team and they came law sabotage. Six uh-huh doesn't mean the bad i'm but think about a case of identity from manager from the star and pope applied every single game that's as if they would have ended up safe breath who knows who knows you cannot so that might be why yes you're not initially quite bads. We've chelsea and wolves then after that offing start looking at someone like poke bar a really really do but there is some cheap alternatives for you're not aids marsh our seven five got tangles foresees and school two hundred twenty two points. He had eighteen starts nine bench appearances the plunk his boss is going to come in again. I'm a fan of martial each shits aw for five games of the season and then he's just pure shit for the rest of the season and now he's been playing up top. Fruita middle in preseason is a trap. Guys is fucking trap. Stay away from tony a._m. I didn't even know that was his name. Tony tiny marshy antony shall anthony o. watches i tony a._m. Tony m more antoni marsha antony and tony santini can be sure went to tony. You've never actually the different names thursday jose short into tony. He's a real thing gabby just like james to jim. You're not just actually we'd and not what's the obvious way. Terrific not wear a thing is the thing yeah. Let's let's talk about my boy alex sanchez. Your boy short don't for alexis yeah. I know who he's name is. Why is he your boy though you you loved him when he was asked no wentz menu and you just don't like him now a love him now i love him. 'cause he's fucking shit yeah well yeah. He got one goal five assist law season. What are you remember him. He's maybe my sorrow. I thought you remember ah but hagel non-stars eleven appearances off the bench. I mean there's nothing to say on him if he does come back to all snow taught foam then that's probably the biggest value picked you could ever alexis seven mill but a main. He's he's a good who happen. I think so. Let's talk about someone who is actually f- peo- interesting and james a coins the price of six mil. I knew james yeah one of new sonic from swazi arkansas she's not salute pice merchant and and he got for free appearances for swansea los as and scoring four goals seven assists he played a couple of times on the roy a couple of times in the center but all of his goals rose mainly came from playing left wing the average about two point six shots per game. The thing is with him. He may impress a move laugh f- offering that will happen but don't think he's going to translate to have p._o. Points it could just be another lingered sought thing. We also don't know how now dis if all is going for free. We've got rush foods. Marsh ou- daniel james mason greenwood's who spoke about last week lingo lukaku still covered a minute. We would just a minute when you actually do menus pies like they are big names times. They are big players. Yeah mine is a massive cobb. I mean yeah but then wages winston insane or were they come see for the top six teams that means. That's not very good for a team in our aides who are used to winning trophies. Every season six is really bad. Every team wants to at least come in top form. You can get champions league football also he not it foued found in doing. I also ever gonna not foul in doing that. Is the question might be the season without. No there is a lot of talk about a new sign in the budget range but we'll get to that i ninety spun. It actually took about offs. No let's just talk about their mid range orange players we go ozo- seven five mickey at seven and a while you be six or any of these of interest to you amy ni- on jiwa as an awesomeness po are after school. No what's the word. I'm looking for five yet oddly by fifa them is is you still as measured zeal zeal ozo- as yeah yes i. Hey hey as just a think again. You've always been not omar good he so she was he talks shit every single time. He won't let me just tell you why because he got five life goes free assists law season in his best ever season. He got six goals nineteen assists and two hundred points. That's quite could nine yeah. It was the assist king. That's what i'm saying. That's what it should be doing next year so we know that c._e._o.'s would we love and he's on three hundred and fifty grand a week. It should be produced. Kidnaper free assists in a season. I ain't good enough and you don't even get played every game anymore yet. Twenty starts and four appearances off the bench. He averages zero point five seven shorts per game. Now i told you last week that guero is four point zero and we got sal up in the free and a half's chiefs ozo- averages hoffa show a game he also got zero point one one x j nine eight zero point sue to exit per non l. all season. It's just not good enough. I mean i can talk about the mickey stats as well. We six goes foresees. Amish gonna skip that. We don't give a fuck. I don't give a fuck. Uh-huh uh-huh were mickey in to show me something a wallaby who are we'll be a little bit more coins so he because he scored more points than earth so law season and he scored more points the mickey's best season so give the man some credit he leased average is one point six shots per game but can i just add this season. Never one that you constantly mine about when he's playing all my goal u._s. Economic school is blah. Blah blah. You always mona finishing him down. Big saw amber alert us. I e caught finish econ finishing it. Take a man on to do everything and then just do. A payroll of frightened frightened kepa. He's quite nice that you actually sits northwest by considering. You never do room for at the taylor watching him. Yeah i'll call you. I'll give you that thank but let's move onto the spurs plays. Now we go daily elliot. I five am luke morris seven five what we say naimi sane <hes> we're not saying not as to again off just spurs one like bit lot the kind the inspires plow would get as we. He said he was trip hop. Obviously i narrow anymore and sun the next best pig so i'll give you the stats for anyone interested alley. Got five goes foresees jason ninety four points in twenty five appearances. He averaged one point nine shorts per game point soon annex g per nine point one six say per ninety and if you look at the stats they've regressed season after season. They've got worse and worse and worse. I don't know if he's gonna come back. Stronger ally issues jason avoid for now but lucas maura. I'll have lucas more in a couple of drafts. I'm not gonna lie even though a told you you that amman only play the first two games before song comes back and takes his place even though a told you that he has mindset e second game so i want to be johnny two games it's gets monster that first game against saxon villa gamma fucking so he could be on for a hat trick it could be on for a hatay is that worth of risk said before my tips pick long-term pliers. Pick your robos picky. Van docs plays gonna capable season. You you can have one short term punctually just one and cause more against aston villa that could be absolute return city where eh he got ten goals to assist loss as in one hundred thirty one points twenty five starts seven bench appearances which is more than a full to be fair. He averaged which one point nine shots per game point free to mix g per nine point seven per nine a the stats. Do you put you off a little bit stone stats. We're a lot better but high song cosmo so i'm hoping lucas bangs against immi- even go against the he played well against them in the champions league. He also got a hat-trick in the semi foreign over champions league losses place so you can make that what you will maybe definitely isn't now too so oh when someone gets back but moving on then to v. ever enjoy each for charleston and c._k. And this is one of the big talking points in the p._o. Twitter community at the minute do you go sigi o._t. Governor charleston many people are on city. What do you think that right. She surprises may i fought would be more for charleston's. Be fair over all of a sudden for the last two seasons started really well in the first off and then face to nothing second off while sigi is consistent. He just trickles along all season and c._g. Ended up outscoring richarson richarson got one hundred engine of fifty three points singing one hundred each to unleashing. He can't stop thinking about offering paige 'cause he looks tired. Icy gay <hes> shot chat to be the one who is. I might sweet about these such today on manex tweet monday a patriots exist next to pay superior who can see what i'm talking about well. Let's compare richarson. Sigi didn't even more reach for ingold free assists while siegel for in goals <unk> six assists. I'm charlson every two point. Seven free shots per game. Whoa sigi two point four six zero point free. I x g per nine and zero point zero seven x cyber non rich while c._g. Got zero point free five x g per nine zero point nine sane so fairly fairly similar for me. We know what these are about without stocks. Sig is gonna trick. Were long is on pence is on some corners and some free kicks wchs he loves the show outside the box and he's he's gonna knick points where red for charleston. You might be getting a bryce. You might be in an absolute invisible man for how game you just don't know but for me like i said i like explosive. Players like lucas more locked lot with charleston. That's why these guys are watchlist and not sigi nor ericsson moving swiftly on yet again to to boom of guys. Now we got ryan fraser at seven point. Five mill and david brooks at six point five what your force mris plonker. I absolutely love burks. Anna love fraser a lot by firm evocative by op ed burks immi- lineup team already by then i think i think he's a really worth the money. I'm just not sure but august question feo ponca is it. What do you think of david brooks ni- i was gonna sigh as having loosen and fraser too many cherries well. You're literally asking me on the same die of doubled up on palm of attack saw no. I think he's too much a toll. Do you know how that did. You like how i know. What what does terry's main cherries is a nickname of almost. You know that okay so shocked. I'd i look up a question just to be a good question. I would definitely double boomer lie. I will probably have whoa via shiffer gingrich villa. I who games to promote its sides man's ceo after is obviously a very hard game but medium to long-term the fixtures ain't bad bad boom of score goals and fraser and moose and actually i've got quite good lula link-up lot quite. I said you pine a bit more. I mean we've already spoke about wilson and king thing. Let's focus on fraser. Improves fraser got seven dollars for an assist law season in for appearances and scored one hundred ninety one points <music> east coast twenty-three bonus on the season and averaged only one point four four shots per game and only point for inex- g per nine but they get point point four six x nine a so assist potential is will brooks mill chapa seven goals six assists and one hundred twenty twenty free points the thing is we brooks ado lock him as a pick. It tends to get subbed off. You know before the nine a quite a lot. I definitely think piney extra meal for fraser is is one hundred percent worth a mile as a hundred percent worth it a really like wilson loosen a too light king a really lot fraser as well wilson and fries. Are you get what you pay for. These guys are definitely better than king <music>. I'm brooks and a definitely thinking need at least one attacker in game. Meet one squad so for me. Try and get fraser or if not go gopher wilson or a king brooks or made to slot. It doesn't make the car but you never know. Brooks could prove me wrong moving on then to hang on hang on one one two three four five six seven chelsea players. I trust try guests twenty seven chelsea plasma talk about i case i william yep. <hes> ooh goes <hes> what he won it is. He's he's shaw. Is he left. Both i am not barklay. Oh god <hes> cantey is in the is a budget yet. <hes> we've got christian pulisic pitch at seven point five mill willion seven mill pedro at seven mill. We've lost his cheek six and a half hudson toy at six barclay at six and mesa ice amounted six now a main lost that say i will just really more freddie one ks puticevic at dortmund loss as as and got nine starts and eleven sub appearances and scored four goals foresees averaging two point six five shots a game point five one x g per nine a._m. Point soon join excited her nine a so originally for he wasn't much of a goal scorer upper point five one extra on aids pre impressive and soviets two point six five shots a game so a main put us each could be one to watch willion and pedro is a comparison we should be making and a law law people tend to five a william over pedro bor from the stats a think pedro so a wins it petra kgo eight goals two assists while william frigo seven assists which means pedro outpointed willion by four points even know william started more games william alien averaged three point six three shots while pedro two point eight nine and pedro exchange an extra per nominee is put free import to while williams was point. One is important too. I sign stats actually five pedro. If you wanna talk about ruby loftus shake six goals two assists with six starts also nineteen bench appearances three point six shots per game zero point free extra per nine eight point nine per nine eight hudson a toy one assist in ten appearances barklay got free goals five assists from twenty seven appearances he actually ever just two point nine free shorts per game which is pretty impressive. Receive the thing is we can apply here. Loftus cheek and hudson a toy or of faith start season a think not going to be wants to watch when they you coming apart from scituate with a lot of money too much money for me to gamble on win for the same money you can get fraser lucas mora. They reese someone a lot. The most i've always and mesa mount oviously played on the frank lampard lost season at darby infer appearances he got nine goals foresees foresees and every two and a half shorts a game it fills. Let's may lamport can apply mice amount in the ten any faster case this pine. Six mil for attacking midfielder for chelsea is absolute value. The problems will come when loftus shakey's back fit because nasa obvious position as well so the now with all of these players on-off debut over stats and better safe these guys off but go okay panel. I know of as a willion oh pedro really like barkley. Even though a wants to again he plays in that same roy said amount he's going to become emma favor but yeah all these plasma white and say job moving on yet again to the palace boys whoa maybe not for long we saw aw aminullah voinovich's seven mill will focus on these two guys well. I ain't saja guarantee us no well. We don't know yet you ever been in zohar as well so we make ever which i will excite for athens to signature by will be completely over because everyone's everyone's gonna goes all hall. 'cause there's a new cheaper so but in terms of travel via hoot me meet travolta of the mitch avoid apology which i'll probably milly milly use it to me that we've the i. r. I'm i'm pimm tigers season. That's in. I have actually look at him because he always tixx. Palestine's scored seminole is law season yeah which it's good in terms of a are. Do you really want to pay that price room just because he can get a few pins in well a a does twelve goals loss as is an school more points in one hundred sixty six for saga one hundred and four free the thing is are we going to go away. You're gonna get paypal type paper pens more often or knowing v. I always all lies taken over so they can apply a not do many things to mets. Let's not what will happen. I can work against pansies think about if zohar lives in the pokes and the ref was going to give a penalty he looks v._r. And realize it's not a so you're going to get penalties given which wouldn't have been given but you're also we're gonna get penalty is not given that would have been given give us on this main in terms of saw if saw leaves milivoy rich hasn't got zohar to win pens for him so i mean you've zohar leagues palliser pretty much relegated aren't give a fuck about milly or or care about zohar stats quite good ten goals eleven assists but hill depends where he goes if it goes palace if he goes awesome if it goes ever earn i i mean he's still a great shout wherever he's at because seven men is great value but i don't want to march. Let's just see where he ends up. Let you see where he ends up. Nope let's not talk about the lester trio and again another massive debate. You've got madison at seven perez at six and off off and sailor moon at six and a half massive debate going on about who you prefer less to twinsies. Who's your favorite framing <hes> <music>. It has to be medicine because anyone reading. I praise plateful newcastle not quite lacking their bar madison's the only one on the i know more about cy. Will i have very strong opinions on this very strong opinions clear ranking for free and actually i just quickly mention harvey bonds bonds. He's six mil and <unk> supreme impressive young at one go free assis- every free three point four or five shots per game and point free to mix cheaper ninety along. We've point one seven xipeng on me so i mean that is pre goods. If harvey bonds stays stall he could be getting some goals in the space but for now is avoid because we got better options and for me. I'm ranking these very firmly. From best to worst worst being madison taylor mons coming seconds wins and offing ohio's. A peres is definitely first choice for me. The reason madison virtuous he's half no more other really see any difference between between medicine and taylor mons. I did a comparison. A madison does obviously play a little bit more false but salem on steps while he was there. Last season was still really goods. Madison got two point six shots per game or two point. Five four madison does slightly be taylor mons inex- g._s._i. Point so free extra point five excite pornography formats tatum owns only point one seven point two one on a lot of people were talking about t- lemoyne's outperform any stats with the free goals and five assists in his appearances but arctic phil lack doc is going to carry on bowling even if he does play slightly cheaper to madison madison we had a whole season to download these data from and he went on long runs of doing nothing. I think with differences for me is at five mil. I don't think you get in that much more for half a mil more. Oh so madison definitely for place for me and in isaiah perez twelve go to assist for newcastle all season one hundred and forty one points. He's underline stats weren't that great. One point six eight shots per game point five exchange and points twelve xipeng nine a but this was for newcastle also with cena struggle to school goes now he's playing alongside vaud a madison and sailor moon and harvey bonds. I always a peres goalscorer. It gets in the box and grabs goals. He's the man for may unfortunately the fixture bad for less so bad. If i were of what hundred percent peres despoiling bads he still in now i always perez and i don't think sailor moons munster pap picabo. A roofing is also okay to white for the fish is a little bit better. We still got so many more for remorse with a little break an comeback and finish up with some more mid range guys the next stop on the west amboise who unlike lester have good fixtures after that game meet one matchup against gets man see they have great fixtures up until the end the november and we go seven meal antonio in philippi anderson and at six and a half mil four now and land zany and we've even go yarmolenka. It's six mil amy what we say. In to any of these capshaw shoah i'll do quite like flea panton kotli and and tanya actually doing quite well with the law season west. I'm so so maybe he could be built a pick but ni- ni- west anti smart team that i think really well. I'll just know <music> already haven't looked into my since i've decided to go from grab salah of not done enough research to find out what i can afford around them. If you know maybe a to speak too highly possible food like if i have sterling all have saleh than the of a free me food is will at least you're going to be five four point five and five so no because i can tell you for a fact sulfides their applies in now but matt ryan line just well he had is agreement. Yeah greenwood. You've had greenwood in what five point five strike off four point five four point five is that so you've saved yourself about free will ever meal there. I if you have at least one cheap player you're gonna get nowhere in your same. No i'm. I'm gonna have cheapest. Ima midfield green was ema bench so yea yea. Whoa i'm looking to pi four free very free that is actually you you can have to really cheap midfielder to be on your bench said yeah and i'm going to have to have another one really tape. Hey ryan jay z. Trust me trust me. I'll have to look into appropriate but i don't know if i will be. I would say you go remember salaries actually more expensive than esguerra as well so and i couldn't afford any good mood food supplies before i me i'm telling you for a fact you can have. You can have a mid range player midfielder in your same easy because of i two mattamy before benue i. Let's talk about these samplers. I mean wh would you think i am. I shall keep reading fish that saw do does anyone care about the stats mile probably not. I'm gonna keep gone with his status. Thank you guys don't give a fuck. They let me know next episode but i'll just route him off in case you are enjoying them. 'cause antonio got six goals eight assists the and one hundred nineteen points in twenty two starts an eleven bench appearances averaged three point eight one shots per game point two six x g point one seven per line a and is only free percent owned flippy anderson going six assists and one hundred fifty five points in six appearances. He's one point seven shots. Per game. Put one six six g per nine a._m. Points to accept her nine a he's really the only are here. We played all season lansing cleansing the only got ten appearances one go to assists. He averaged one point four free shorts point one five x j an point once who exi- and yarmolenka. We've got nine appearances two goals one a cease. He got one point seven eight shots per game point so five x g._m. Point one subic six. I don't even though i mean if you wanna look at your milenko at six zero at dortmund is best when you go eighteen appearances. You're free to services so you point six seven shots per game point four four x ray panamanian points who i accept her nine eight yarmolenka is more pick for the west sam players. Unfortunately i'm not sure if it is to start a season but we don't really want anyone against my n._c._a._a. So we could whiten say okay to see how good he looks. The loss player what did it mention was four. Now's who are canonic view is villa ryo stats. He had father payments even ceased to goes free assists. He averaged two shots. A game put one exchange and point to escape nine a doesn't seem that much of a goal scorer. He seems like a land zini to be on his. I've always players a main anderson and y'all milenko who got my eye on anderson didn't didn't really own infant too long season so personal bias may be there it can have red hot games but then he can just be absolutely invisible. Oh so yarmolenka for me is the guy. I want you to keep roy on. If he starts against sitting and looks goods broth good fixtures offered i it could be banging in the goals cutting left for scoring absolute screamers buh let's move on from these west sam ause. I'm michael one go on his own. You know little mice. He's got no mesa all pascal gross at six and a half mil for brought in juneau pasco gross amy now i nine over season before lost. He was absolutely insane. Waseda ego seven goes assis- two seasons ago he only got free goes fritzy's this season but was from twenty five appearances which is actually a law if awful it was injured most of season but young average is one point one four shots per game point so x g point two seven except for nine a a main under new manager a new at sakya manager. Maybe close get back to where it was. The season before and broadens fixtures short-term ought to bad for coming coming fucking spending six and a half million abroad employer. You can get a faulk. I do wanna quickly mention the liverpool suli before god's oxley chamberlain. Oh i was going to try and get them is not hard to get so you have one in. We use it to ya. Ah a sabha on our he's actually going to be not what about the other one. Oh fuck commun- brunei. The law is thinking of juden henderson over now. They were guys anyway oxley chamberlain. I i like him. I wanna gave me mateo today but account a mania to bench. Appearances loss season is output was before the injury. The awesome before law said free ghosts seventies. The guy is electric as best. It can always change the game. It's obviously araki's output should be fit now. It could be equal. E could be an option. Obviously most people can arrive you. Saleh's robos robot whose event lacks trent you train sierra so they might not be space for an ox to take precious little spot but you never know oh. Lana got five stars in eight appearances from the bench. Oversea hasn't done much for a while but when he's at his best economy doing well nine gnawing golden honesty's in between four hundred twenty four eight season an eight goals seven assists in the two thousand sixteen twenty seven eighteen season soviet jennifer south hampton. He's done it for liverpool before the lana could be wants to watch as well but moving on to matsu norwich guys six point five mill. Oh brench each and six mil twenty are now french who's on pens jonathan guy for him. Really i think think a minute fooling starts twenty two bench appearances law season tango seven assists only one point two shots per game from what all i know you had a poor start to the season but i'm really come on strong and want to know what she's best players and if his own pens then he could be getting some goes goes but buendia who had for appearances loss as in eight goals twelve assists an average one put on shorts of game he's on corners his and he seems like quite the bowl takes on players big powerful and strong big powerful and strong sunshine thing but but yeah point diaz seems quite good player onto the southampton boys we bend redmond ami also polk tuck. James will process yan redmond's at six and a half j. W. pays six. If you compare these two between each of our a main gene we'll practical seven goals z. Overseas from goi think would get assis- younger scored ninety four points on the season while redmond got six goes farther cease ace on one hundred thirty seven points. I'll quite lot redman janai. He's such being more draft team. This season when he's on his own. Foam is on full number for the whole season. Yeah i mean i wouldn't wanna be me mas hayme for the beginning 'cause at pomo for may by then off inc come to a point when he does not doing well then i'll but not winnings bring him in but every time i bring him when they do well i do sheep for me so take ma and then they start doing money. I made up as to everyone won't it was decided feel cursed on a dig in your to sign. Everyone's gonna agree with you on that. We all know that failing but yeah. I mean if ribbon stocks sought. We've chatham's could absolute fireworks but we just thought it was going to shape up. They wait and see jobs. Let's have a talk about the new villa boys now go free in the mid-range to just might the car also got free in the budget range but the free in the mid-range may drain jar connor hoover han jet greenish and hotter now if anyone was a listener very starve is poke cost like oh yasser and this hotter mixed up so i definitely know this guy is pronounced hotter and diogo shorter for wolves shutt- aw but yeah hotter is also a bola. He is actually date. Someone are so really one saw him in preseason couple of days ago scoring and bang bang goal. What did he get to. I think you're bryce. Often is one to watch. Grayish is obviously the my man. Everyone knows you know careers january-may. Surely i've heard him who wanna go attack by a fan. Remember that go around on the pitch and punch you in the back reads. Oh yeah yeah yeah anyway e- again is a bowl has been linked with tottenham. He got six goals seven assists law season and every to put one shorts per game. All all act conduct houlahan a bit more. He did play more than griego eight goals eleven assists. We've one point nine shots per game. Houlihan ease on set pieces so we've new signings wisely coming in and in tarver means on the perm. Maybe we've got some goes from set-pieces a lot who had a lot hotter but i'm not going to bring any of these guys in straight away to spurs first game but in the fixtures are great a touch on the rest of them in the budget picks but for now with go six more plastic in the mid range and as the burly giulio dwight mcneil and goodman soon by six now mcneil with twenty one appearances seventy five points free goes foresees the average one point five one shot a game point one x g point nine nine a a main this guy was what was he law season four and and a half that price is a ball in six. I'm sorry he's not for me. Goodman you might be getting a little bit more. He go three points with free seventies. E average one point seven one shorts per game point one four x j and put one nine exi- per nine a soviet bed. Macneil won the stats but a main goodman sinatra six mil a shapiro five multiplier as well. We'll never mind on his own here lot pasco lasko gross and he's one of my favorite players a wish came in so many platters wish i could get in my head tells me that not good picks and his mcgee alman for newcastle you know him on you. I may know a love him much. He's an absolute. Change is a boiler and a massive mouth. An ego pig is is not really not really but and i mean the fact that oh geez is yet trust me. Trust me is but the facts new costs will have go win and now him now ron. Kuby fucking seines could be liquid football on get to assist law seasons and appearances two point three one shots per game for it goods point one nine x g per non a point zero except for not a new cost fiction which is a bad newcastle to avoid lesbian is a if we do see maguy and joe lynn formula partnership tip when i am hopping straight on both of them doubling up fought may. I'm sweating yum sweating as well. We've been going for a long time. Well all over an hour with the door. Shut in fucking. I agree but we got to lost guys in the mid range and it's roberto pereira and signed decor right both six. I mean what can i say. She wanted to bring pereira-varon while troughs are now is a streaky rickie player if he's going to be on form. It's going to be for only a couple of games of got. The status bar can't fucking be asked because we don't want these guys do we. We thought one pereira ain't a bad shout what words of fairly good fixtures for the first four but fought them off them off and these midrange players off off. We go get free to budget picks now before we wrap up this episode so let's dive in sweden less chruch on budget midfielders why ah we could finally talk about but new also saw an in danny cabela's at five and a half mil go anything to say about miami the fact the the fuck. You didn't even sweet about him whereas he come from. Who is a row madrid. Rummage rates ooh he could be a good pick is easy gonna be like is he. Actually gonna do well for us. No as he can be a good midfield four he was going to be a ramsey replacement. Gonna be fairly attacking but affect five and a half. Maybe he's more defensive. You remember that plays price. He's he's doing creasing decrease for at the season so he might start live because people don't know much. I am as soon as he starts getting good. Ima got two seven mill. You just never live yeah well he could do for you got that march per he did get free goes last season from brown with trades average one point five nine shots per game one point point seven freaky policies per game. We've point one six point zero nine x jian exa per ninety cyber stats a main more shots per game than ryan fraser so that could mean something offering so white and say job we don't know how gays without even now if emory's gonna kate vote tight in the white they'd loss as him but if he's competing with shocker and torrero and emotional play every game but all wanna talk about now free aston villa guys and a couple of them offering really good value all at five and a half meal meal go mcginn who with four free appearances law seizing seven goals nine assists every two and a half shots per game he could be an okay i player but he did get fourteen yellows law season so maybe not the other two for me. A gauzy thirty four appearances six the six goals six assists and one point nine shorts per game. This guy's a winger for aston villa so if he plays a main that as value bob that is a full instill waistlines troy's guy now. You said you willing to pay attention. I may patankar attention this bedding cabello spare no gauze a evan any of his five and a half mil players better moot sania were nevarez this. This is a guy you want to keep an eye on tresor guy coming from the turkish league nine goals in for appearances so the season before the sixteen goals in for free appearances we saw a little bit of the world cup baited also play in the afc come recently and scored a couple goals. This is an saw employer and he's definitely one. You want to keep an eye out on sorting them first game threat to bring him. Meanwhile now see how he plays make sure he starts. This is the pick of the budget players for me. I'm not gonna talk too much about most of these other guys now. There are refu- okay shouts for no rate shift go rhino hernandez who goes eight gold. Oh hold on. I've got something wait to tell you about him. Sorry ogden loop research on mondays and you sure she's hernandez. I may yes he got it. Goes unnoticed loss season in forty games si- he's ranked at five point five meal. Do you think wise. Where are you getting this from research. We what website you gain is from the f._b._i. Being from las as he was an n._f. Artist noticed google do how i cover these stuff so i don't know why you trying to outdo me right now. I am i gonna site ye an-and days at at five point five meal. Do you think he's too good to pass up as an enabler. Learn what you're twenty three right now for us takeover mwaro. I'm trying to show you. I pay good attention but yeah a nine. Days is a good plan for norwich from the one from the two gamblers. Sylvia marc's look really attacking the average two point sue shorts game as well. I like commanders. Missiles like patrick roberts who officially thing is officially a man player who was alone it so it i think is now at norwich again could be one to watch the sheffield you not a boy's the five and half. You've got mark duffy. You've also got callum robinson down as a midfield up as a striker eagle in goals and free assists an average free shots per game at preston law season. Norwood's free goes eight assists. There's flake has will give a fox to be honest with defenders for sheffield united aids attack not the attackers if anyone it probably will be robison if he does become a stall or over mcgoldrick goldrick again we talk now. They've got sharp mcgoldrick moussay and callum robinson understand. Give fuck about these guys. I don't give a fleck. If you excuse the pun some more southampton budget glaze we got hope vere five mil again it should before it should be four and a half loss as needed to get foregoes free assists and not points. There's also a new sonic coach epo completely unknown. It could be a pursue more. It could be a mores. Probably the former will hughes is also five and a half mil for what i i didn't know if he got thirty two appearances offseason awful. It was injured. Two goals foresees ninety seven points a main. If you play that many games they know is said. Maybe not as good as a think. Thank mandla robert. Snow grows is also five and a half mil two goals five assists. This is a good shell feel if he plays pellegrini. Pelligrini has said positive things snow gross. He was the one who kept him when he looked to be on his way out so you never know and the loss of the five and a half plays <music> all the wolves guys martina in neves a main neves was the guy got foregoes free this one hundred four points beta a yellows but it ended up being moutain yo especially at the end of the season who come on strong and ended up in one go and eight assists and one hundred and nine points i mean nervous is on pins not fully on pins him and his takes a few was he gonna sign yeah. I was gonna say nervous. Actually is one of my low budget midfielders think i will have him in my team. This season are now. You've just said about the yellow so that's a little bit but nine days on pains hanes that could be a good shot for marlo range for the midst to be more about tressler. Guy orders told you about literates. Hold you traffic as a pitcher for five yali yali. She signed us our whose paper villa yeah. This was about five minutes ago and i'm gonna listen you. Are you willing to pay attention to this and i roy just <hes> it's har- nearly dumb because there's not much left to five meal is a popular pick his own pin for say so he could be a good pick consi- foregoes four cisl season per is likely to be plan more tapeh. I mean what can i say you mean. You've got john john chevy. You got more noble pens for west time. I'll give a fuck about these guys. You've also got the four and a half mil bench as for the guys doubt stevens loves a yellow is now always haydn. Go forward as law season yoni four four apply you you one eastern donkow wolves. Yes that's another personality. Can an eagle two goals more than any other of the four fives to who would did you say he's a bad picot the two then donka or nevarez ben donka because he's a mill cheaper. Okay often cocoa 'cause off like i had not much off. I was like did he actually do anything never really heard of him but he didn't play when nuno play the free for free formation because it was never mutani but then he changed up to free five two so as tina nevarez and then donka. We've your saw upfront and that's when they started pan. Look that's when you're asta a plan and that's when den tonker story plan very well in the last preseason game now i just saw it was apparently quite sacking so then dunk is by for your best fifth midfielder and less fucking rap sheets up because i i am fox or i'm sweating voices going of lonzo energy. I mean what we say. And how did you find out founding attention twenty at the salami rambling on i wanna cy the plan car got plunked suffic- clay clay of say as you mentioned it might retire this week and i actually got a message from i f peyot shock and hey basically we look tame up to give our and hey basely sits may. I think that you should plunk the plonker so we talked about golf golf. That's the guy saw sharon to gov spicy cray. Although food or you've got <unk> actually punks so he teamed up with me gave me all these information to say to you in the podcast to try and make me look like on associate dean research and non gave you some insight zekri golf guide mueller research but you've made me looks cheap because apparently skype you the wrong fucking walking status. I wrote on gov. Thanks for that long stacks. Everything call told you. Where are you getting these from ny. One one one one the assis- there was something st we've had hindi's that you said wrong. No none of that was rolling i said. How did you know oh you that no. You said he was wrong. I may we can literally when you listen back. We'll see us. Why ankh say what i i think we'll ask by polka polka a spike spike ma and then days fraser okay i may we know now what we talked about. We've listened to it. There's no one more shot took doll for helping out mris plonker. Yeah thank scarf by other. She never do wanna thank the plunked. You didn't get blown jamie. So these really good thing might be the way i present it myself because of say any of these people. Actually i suppose you detroit fucked up coming off. Got something to tell you plan. Call call your folks. I really had to go about it so i was thinking even sit to golf archie. I'll probably fuck. Ah i'll give a guy a guy. It's not going right span burr golf. If i'm let you down offing she is she's not. She's not done it justice nari ever sorry golf bet big shot at from us again. Is it for this episodes. Make sure you follow me on twitter. Fantasy underscore plan in call and follow me on twitter. Me sees pay long correct feel. He's a clunker f- peo- mris plonker the guy free join the mini league. The fantasy plunk poke costs mini league dakota's d._f._l. Cue sixty nine. We'll we'll go a lot. More people than last season's is going to keep grubbing. Get involved completely free. Next week will be the defender preview and it'll be the lost episodes before aw this season starts so we may go for what teams we may go through a lot doing that because a say matsushima change it and sir my personal friends moan about call me out for it and also don't wanna show my mini-league ruffles might tame so maybe we won't do that but we'll see next week. Defend preview oversee and punching the goalkeeper's into a and yeah it should be sure episode in this one but a hope you enjoyed. We did please if you've got any opinions or feedback you wanna. Give me if you like the stats if you hate to starts. If you want me to speak more may me to shop more. Let me know on twitter everyone once they're obviously mom the life of the party over here. Why did you wait accent. Uh-huh definitely not hearts are now less amy more plonker but this is may be sawn in outface episodes or catch. You guys this same song next week <music> yeah.

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Side Stories: Stargate

Last Podcast on the Left

58:59 min | 2 years ago

Side Stories: Stargate

"Pay there. Ben Kissel here for last podcast network. I wanna tell you about my show Abe Lincoln's top at for more than nine years Marcus, and I have strived to present you with the most accurate and honest political podcast out there in these turbulent times, it's our intention to unite the country with impassioned debate. The reaches out to the rational Americans who find their voices more muffled every day every week I use my political science background. My experience running for office along with my lifelong passion to stand up for the downtrodden. The wrongfully accused in the invisible man and woman to bring you news like you haven't heard before. Let's face it. Traditional news has failed us. We promised to always tell you the truth, the best we see it, and I personally guarantee to not be swayed by hyper partisanship, but be guided by facts to listen search. Abe Lincoln's top hat on any podcast platform or go to last podcast network dot com and find it under shows, HALE yourselves everyone. No place to escape. Dude, who's the loss cast on the left. Cannibalism started. Kissel. I think you look incredible with the cowboy. I don't wanna start wearing a cowboy hat. That's okay. First of all, we were talking before the show about how people make music their identity, and they change who the are, maybe they're getting faced at us. Now I like old country music, outlaw country. Willie Waylon, the boys, you name it the boy, but I'm never going to wear a cowboy hat. I am already six foot seven in Akabway at if I wore the boots, I would be well over seven feet tall couldn't get an a plane couldn't walk in a door. It would just be embarrassing. Make them. I fall show the world how the holes to these things need to be bigger. Part of how your life would be, and then you just have the power of what's great about the cowboy hat the mile. Yes, I do like that. I would love to tip it. I like the idea of maybe some rain falling down upon it. I like the idea of having to get one of those little plastic things that you have to put over your cowboy hat. So it doesn't get wet in the storm. I'm just saying when I wore my cowboy hat for the limited period of time that I was doing, I felt a really I felt a lot of power, right? And I wanna go back to it because I had that big taco shell hat that I got Alice, which I'm going to do again. I'm going to get another one. Good. I want to start adding it to my dress like my dress wear, what it's fun. Well, what mood do you have to be into wake up in the morning and be like today's cowboy hat day, horny. As all get. All right. Well, you gotta wear pants. Okay. Everyone is inside stories. I am Ben Kissel. There's Henry's brow sqi cowboy Henry's brow ski some days of the week. Evidently I don't really wanna be taller. I don't care about being taller, but I like the idea of having a really. The Big Hat. Just because it'd be fun because then people think your important. I don't know if that's true, but okay, perhaps I'll go through a cowboy hat phase. I'm not going to get a little bad. I'm not going to wear a vest. I don't know. No, no, no, no, exactly. As you are right now, Big Hat, Big Hat. All right. Well, feel free to let me know what you think audience. Should I have a hat. Many Photoshop me with that. Give me an idea of what I'd look like and perhaps I will be swayed and purchase ahead. They're very expensive. You a good cowboy hat. You're looking at four hundred, five hundred bucks. That's what I'm saying. And people know it's quality. That's true. And I will say this about the American cowboy very understated. They love flare, American Cowboys, Texan men. They dress up more than any. First of all, anyone in the mid west, they the mid west is swept pan country, and I like that about them. Stay cozy, stay warm, but my God, the amount of effort to Cowboys put into what they look like and what they wear every day. It takes them forty five minutes to get dressed did is very important part of their culture. I think that it's it's nice that they. Do it like that they look presentable. I like a uniform. I like the idea of choosing all the things I'm trying to get better. Like, you know what's really seem strange specifically over the last two years. I like the dad shirts. What is a little button down shirt with little things on them. Right? But it seems hips or culture has caught up to me and know every company goes and they will. They make shirts with little things on them and are great, and now he's twenty of them. And then that's me dressing up because it's the best part about as a man is that you can fool people into thinking, you're dressing up, right? Just wearing a shirt with buttons on it. Technically, it takes less effort to put that shirt on that. It does for me to put a t shirt on Woody Harrelson and Kiefer Sutherland they wore some cowboy hats in the movie the cowboy way, and I watched it as a child, and I thought that pretty cool. But then again, they're not six foot seven, so I don't know. They look a little bit. Woody looks good at anything even with nothing on what heroes and looks great and Keefer. I mean, I would love to. I would love to drink with him. He's more. On my favorite celebrities to get hammered with it just seemed. Yeah, it would be fun, but he can look good in anything too. Honestly, you'd look really good. Wait till you're back on the campaign trail because it shows your home, it shows that you're with the people and that you you are taller than everyone. So the horizon, right. That's a very good point poll channel. My inner Rick Perry, take a limo to a pickup truck. Change out of my suit. Put on normal people close, go door to door and then reverse the process until I go back to my mansion pushed alive affect, of course. Yes. And by the way, Henry mentions how everything doors need to be bigger. Some of these airplanes we've been flying on buddy. I way more than them and I'm longer than them. I feel like I'm getting into a geo metro that can fly it is it's been a little scary. No planes are really small, and I know it's attributed to your fear of flying. Oh yes. I'm doing that to be not to have a moment of owner ability. We haven't had last couple, but you truly are afraid of flying and a part of it. I do will say it's part of you being uncomfortable where for. Me like, I'm I do get smaller, but it's still very uncomfortable for, oh, it Sunday call. I in a plane. Everyone. I'm always touching somebody's knees. Oh my goodness. I mean, it's impossible to see it's. That's why anyway, and you got on a what you gotta do is just spend as much time in the bathroom is again, that's what I say, but then nice. You can go in there and Nate can't kick you out again, though. They how? What's the hour? I'm going to look this up. How long? Oh, you know it's just a mutiny that happened. Yes, it's the mutiny. There's only two bathrooms on there. If you're coach, there's one. If you're in the first class, there's not enough bathrooms to to facilitate, oh, did you have all the power when you're the bathroom? Because it's like when you when you occupy Australia during risk and you're the, you're the have that corner to defend coming at me when I'm gonna quarter. Let's not me while I'm in a corner risk. The board game ladies and gentlemen, very exciting game. All right. Well, Henry hero here. Let me say it sets everything. You never wanted to know about airplane toilet. We're going to have some. We're going to have stories today to absolute -ly. Okay. Was what's one thing? I never want to know about an airplane toilet. You should not be flushing them while you are sitting on them. Wow, that's basil. What kind of fucking. Maniac thinks midnight. He, he'll. Such containing. Right. As you were to do it. Well, why would you wash you? We'll hold your fucking asshole out. Yes, I don't know what anyone would flush it will you're using it, I mean. Okay. All right. Well, that's good to know just in case so where they keep the blackbox weirdly inside the Tokyo. I can't amendment audio perspective. That is very strange. Your shit comes out of the bowl at a velocity faster than a Formula. One race. Because of the so my goodness, we'll put a little hat on it so it doesn't get hurt, then mowing so it doesn't shoot it out. I used to think he used to shoot the shit out in frozen chunks, but it doesn't. They don't do that anymore. The movie, it's not frigging. What was the name of the David Spade film Joe dirt? Yes, it's not the movie, Joe dirt where they have a huge piece of frozen Deng that he thinks meteorite. Don't flush while seated. What kind of fucking evil knievel or you living. Are you living this life? You really want it. You want a chance that shit. I really hate this is you want to talk about a Kathy Kathy corner over here when you were in a public toilet and the sensors really sensitive. Oh, yeah. And it flushes as soon as you're asked lifts the seat and then you got like five stray droplets of water that just go plink plink plink. Right. Your asshole is Jupiter and the gravity is just like, suck them sucking them in. I hate that it's the worst because you can feel a wet it is you could feel soak into your member. Oh yeah. I hate an oversensitive self flushing toilet. I've said, I sit at everyday well wearing a Kabwe. Okay. First story of the day, this is a story that I absolutely love and let me just say speaking of politics. This gale has my boat. She's a cheerleader. She's seventeen years old. She's running for homecoming Queen. She allegedly gave out pot brownies trying to win school officials in Michigan's. They achier leader allegedly doled out. Pot brownies to students in her high school in an effort to secure the necessary votes for homecoming Queen from her classmates. I'm going to say this legalize it, this is it. Is it, this is how you win. I will say it makes a lot of sense. My promise that with making your own weed Brown news that they get very inconsistent. You're very consistent summer stronger than others. It's not the best way to consume weed. I will say for her like, what did people know they were, we'd brownies will. This is okay. The marijuana laced treats were handed out to several students. This is at Hartford, high school. This happened in late September. Authorities were first made aware of the situation after state police received an anonymous tip. So somebody knocked about the brownies. The information was shared with the Hartford police according to the local TV station WW Mt. A cheerleader is suspected of baking a dozen brownies and the and then giving them out to students and including them in gift bags to some of the football players, their cheerleader. They said, we're investigating two things. Number one, some were putting goodie bags for players. Also, they were used to obtain votes for the Queen contest. So the local. Place is going to really there on this caper of who they have nothing else to do. I guess not they are. They are really on the caper here. They're on the case of this woman seventeen year old given pot brownies to football students or two football players and students to try to get some votes. She was already doing. I will say this in need. It needed fucking this is not half. This is nothing to do with election. She was already doing. Have you not seen the movie, the grease Witherspoon classic election highschools you'll waste second. Did you just call her Greece with us. Credible. Berlet's name. Wow. You say Greece Witherspoon because I am that isn't credible. What a horrible name for her if she ever gained quite a bit of weight? Oh, my goodness. No Reese Witherspoon the classic film election. It's Matthew Broderick is in it as well. And I'm telling you remember, high school high school. Politics are very intense, very scary stuff. So you've got to do something to get over the edge here. Although I would, I would caution people these edibles at Henry you can talk about this. These edibles, I don't wanna be. I don't wanna get on my Bill Reilly no spin zone. I don't want to sound like a conservative grandpap, but there are a little too strong. Sometimes you know, what is that? You kinda gotta get used to once you get him in your system enough, you kind of know what the waves are. You know what you're riding. That's the one thing about edibles for me. It's more of an advanced users technique of eating because the drug changes when you eat it, right. It's more of an loosened Jin soupy com. It's a, it's got a different affect. It's not quite the same. So no your dealer, I would also say. When you were fucking should be for eighteen. Plus I'm going to bet it's my responsibility area that it should be eighteen plus, but I also understand you're going to get it anyway. So you better get her legit. It's better. If it's legal, you can get see how much how many milligrams are in. Does start small, always do this. This is if you are fifteen right now when I'm sure you that you are, if you are a ended, a weed brownie, eat a corner of it. Wait for an hour. Wait, you have to be patient wait for the hour. Wait to see what happens. This is. This is the only way I can help the right. Well, Kathy corner has ended. Cool corner has begun Brian. Me a great cool on-call. Yes. Eat a little bit and you work your way up. You can always eat more. You cannot eat let we'll sue this Collorado. I know it's a wonderful state. We love Colorado. I had a situation where I bought this orange soda and it was full of which is the weed. Soda, I think is a bit much. It's. They really can't measure it out, don't you can't? It was a hundred milligrams the entire, not the entire thing. It was one hundred milligrams per outs, and there was a, it was a twelve hundred milligrams per offense. I once thankfully I read it, but then you got a big mouth and then you just know for a fact. Some kids are to slam in that and they are having fear and loathing in Las Vegas night. But unlike the movie, you can't push pause. You can't stop it. It actually helps when you're actually deep inside of a trip that you didn't know you were going to go on, it can't be a waking nightmare. What also happened to me in in Colorado the we'd beef jerky which defeats jerky itself. Some of the best beef jerky I ever had. Need is a very good. It's got culinary herb. Ask qualities that make it good pairings with a certain specially savory foods. So I'm eating this. We jerky and everyone's looking at me like, no, do don't finish it. And I was like, why sure problem. Br Arkady do earned upper leave in myself. I didn't know there was weeded it. I thought it was Joe. You house sit on stage yet, and we had to do the second show and you were like, ooh. Ooh, I see the look at your face Zora five and then cut three hours later. I'm in the shower like the world's fattest Terminator in a fetal position. Just still sweating somehow. Oh my goodness. I ate a metric handful of edibles and fell asleep in the San Diego airport. And right before my flight I woke up and next to me was a giant bottle of water, some cheeses, and then on my phone were several browsers opened all of which said how to high to high get down from high, come down, high flight, wile high. What about this is the kind of weed culture? I like because Denver started that shit Nellie kind of completes two with the very helpful community, which is nice. You always need to have somebody who's ends up being a trip sitter for you. I think he did it himself. He just forgot. Oh, no, that was incredible. I was me looking up. He was his how high, how not to get too high. You did good man. Gary saved yourself. And honestly, if you have a friend. Ed Larsen from the roundtable of gentlemen or wizard or or brighter side, never trust them because it's people are some people that are just barrels that can just absolutely consume to smell you do. I just did mushrooms with him again. It's always the same things go this or strong. He was the same thing and I was like, what's because you're three hundred pounds of beef. So when you put in your system, it doesn't have the same reaction with me. I'm technically petite out of nowhere. I'm petite little thing. I can't have the same level, but it just remember this. I will say one last piece of advice before I hit my story of du jour which is when you put drugs in your system to remember you did it right. You put drugs in there, it's going to stop. Eventually. I, that's a part of it too. You just gotta chill out. You know that you are not permanently insane. It will work its way out of your system. You just sometimes need to chill and you know what's another really good way to do it and maybe. This is honestly, this is not recommended, but a really good way to get yourself out of a bad trip is to drink yourself into unconsciousness. Then you just go to sleep and then you time travel in the trip is over, but that's for Twenty-one plus. Right. It's twenty one. Very good. All right. Just to close up the conversation or the story of the seventeen year old police have said, it appears that the edibles were either ingested or that some were flushed down the toilet superintendent Hubbard said in a letter to parents, please take some time tonight to discuss with your children that have at any time they become aware of a potential danger to themselves or others it is. It is their duty to report it immediately to a staff member directly, our websites anonymous tip line or okay to say. So basically, again, they're just having students rat out other students nonetheless. I don't know. I'm stupid nerds. Yeah, you know what those parents are doing. There's looking for the brownies for themselves. Yeah, most I would be doing. That'd be like. You know what? Becky's a browse sqi. This is this is not for children. You shouldn't have this and then I'll just have another room. Yes, exactly. Daddy's time. Djing Halloween, funny. Halloween, five, and most parents a lot of parents. Now it'd be like, last man standing, Tim Allen show is back. We'd better get. We'd better get edibles again, so we can laugh so hard tool time. It's not to all time anymore. It's last man standing. I'll tell you what I, you know, Wendy was alone to the hotel room the other day, and I leave TV on came back in founder watching last man standing. And then she was on the internet own in the libs. I can't believe that careful what you let your kids absorb. Absolutely. All right, this story. Okay. So this is a fun after this conversation. This is a fun little thing to do for yourself. It's Halloween season. It's time you get a little wacky. We're getting closer and closer to the day. There are a lot of people out there and this is technically broke on vice, but it was another story. It's I love this conspiracy theory. There are people that thing, the United States of America invaded Iraq over Stargate right that in two thousand and three instead of just going to to invade Iraq under the auspices of Iraq. It's going to do with nine eleven. We went to pull the WMD's because of the weapons of mass destruction. All that shit. But instead we went was to go find. It is essentially a Stargate that was left in mid Petya by the on Inaki which is, and if you don't know exactly what a Stargate is. They're using the pop culture reference from the film Stargate, but really what it is is a time space rights, literally an area that will take you some other place instantaneously through some form of wormhole that apparently that they had at some point within the ancient city of Ruhr the they were Rio some point, they were re Saddam Hussein was revamping the temple of or right, and so the the ziggurat, which is a massive temple would suggest Ganic labyrinth inside what they believed that the center of it was a Stargate and Saddam Hussein had found the Stargate and that he was getting technology or something firm it. He was figuring out how to use it. So we went there to stop him, but apparently we've had Thai, we've at tabs on the Stargate since one thousand nine twentieth century before that, that the British went in there. The UK personally. Also has connections. They were part of the reason why they also wanted to join in even after knowing for a fact that the WMD's were fake that they, they went all day were also involving themselves in the search for it because they wanted to get a hold of the Stargate with us and the rest of NAFTA. You know what? For all the reasons we went into Iraq. This started with yes, nine, eleven of obviously a rocket nothing to do with it. As a matter of fact, they did not particularly care for all Qaeda's Saddam Hussein was on the frontlines of defeating them in his own state or in his own country. WMD's Hans Blake is like found nothing. It was like Al Capone safe when Geraldo Rivera tried to all light as well have just been for a Stargate. I liked this story. I kind of want this story to be true because it make the Iraq war. One of the biggest foreign policy blunders in American history and extremely useless. When it comes to actual when it comes to actually getting anything out of the the amount of money in the mount of lives. Were lost there. So I like. Yeah. You mean the what? The what was the beginning point of our forever ward that constantly feeds our military industrial economy. That's kind of like we almost kind of did it on purpose so that we could be in the spot where we're at. But if you read a, there was a an Exo politics, dot org. A research study was written by Dr Michael e Saleh called an exit political perspective on the preemptive war against Iraq. And it does a full breakdown on the connection of the war in Iraq to Zachariah situation and his research into the nature of the new Nakae and their relationship with the ancient Mesopotamia means and how they were in charge of this star gate. And now it is seems to following it was hidden and now it is falling into the wrong hands and now the US have is it and I don't know what the hell it is we're doing with it. I don't know. Maybe I would love to see Donald Trump watching his programs on it. I'm not even sure what exactly is Stargate according to ancient aliens researchers, it's a device that can allow you to use transport instantaneously to another gate, no matter the distance. But you know, if you're gonna lie to us anyway. Take us into a war, make it fun. The axis of evil speech talking about, you know, North Korea, Orrock first of all, it's not an access. But yeah, if you're. Take us into a war based on lies anyway. Make the lifespan delights. Adele me tell me that axis of evil speech would have been incredible if Bush would've just gone in deep on the Stargate. I'm like, okay, whatever. Well, apparently, according to like one of the aims of the Hussein Origene was to control of the Stargate would support of the goal is to say Hello to the ad Inaki and bring him back. Okay. So that's what he wanted to fulfill the prophecy is at the end Inaki would return. So yes. So I guess the Iraq Stargate theory, it pushes and narrows this idea a little bit further of what Henry was just talking about saying, one of the technologies that were gifted upon the Sumerians were star gates and their positioning was one of the major reasons for for the years of strife in the Middle East. That's it was not because of western countries going in there and muck it up the works. It was because star gate. So this story really interesting. Very interesting to say the least. I think it's a fun rabbit hole this study. She is wonderful. I do like there. There is one section of where he's like the primary evidentiary support for the above. Discussion is admittedly thin conventional public policy experts and may sound better suited to a fictional thriller than serious public debate from a conventional perspective, scattered assortment of independent archaeological authors, radical Sogeti interpretations of biblical texts. They writing of channels of ET knowledge, speculative papers from strana mors hardly constitute persuasive source of information for understanding the motivations of US foreign policy. But they say there are some important circumstantial evidence. I love it. So apparently the Stargate where is it? It's in a city called Araya. It's about three hundred seventy kilometers southeast of Baghdad in the ancient city of year within that city is the great ziggurat a massive temple which had a you guessed it Stargate. That is really the one thing about, well, there's many things, but one of. The reasons I would like to go to the Middle East is the history. It's where we all it's not where we all began, but they have many, many years of history. Well, before our little time here is a baby Newton as a relatively new nation. I would love to go check it out. This is very interesting. They're saying here that one of the pieces of circumstantial evidence is the destruction of Columbia. Ooh, during its final descent in February one, two thousand three, which apparently held information because we had been scanning Iraq from space, and we had found the Stargate from space. This is very interesting also. Now there is one of the dispute is over the location and the number of star gates. But one thing that all that there is do agree. All the theorists do agree on is that the Iraq war wasn't the first time that he formed power showed interest in it it in what sounds like a super sweet this is according to the article. So I hate when articles trying to be funny, I will skip that over. They see the br-. The British were also fighting to control. The Stargate in World War Two. So it is like it's been going on for a little while. Yeah, it has been going on for a very long time. They're saying, here's, I mean this thousands of years old. They've held the secret because because if you can remember the Nakae report of the original God race that seeded us on this planet and they came, they developed us from weird. We'll eight creatures into combination of their DNA which made the modern human man. And we were used to mine for gold for their starship so they can make it back to new Biru before it left our solar system on our gigantic because you know report of a binary star system, right? According to sound a kid. Very good. Also says the Bush administration recognize that Hussein, had some very, very valuable relevant information concerning the ancient history of the planet, either technology or texts basically confirming this, and he was going to release this to the general public. I think that was a big part of the reason. This is again, according to the researcher. I think that was a big part of the reason why the Bush administration went into Iraq to stop Hussein from revealing this information and also get control themselves. My goodness gracious according to them, they believed that the Bush administration was highly against disclosure, which actually don't think they would have been. I think that Dick Cheney would have used anything anything to distract from all the shit that he was doing. And I think that if there was if they had evidence that aliens, they would have driven in front of people. I'm now starting to be in that line where it's like there there certain parts of disclosure that I don't completely understand in terms of wide. Why? Why don't we know why does the US government have such a hard on? I'm not talking about the UFO research that they've done, and I wonder why it's somebody like, I mean, George W had fucking nine eleven to deal with so that all that went out the window, they're not even going to be talking about aliens anymore. And Trump's of tr- Trump believes in nothing. So nothing matters might. Yeah, he who gives a shit what he believes in, but a part of it's like the the, it's it's very strange. It's just like just come out and tell us work you've been doing on? Well, we did. We did have that release of course. We know Harry Reid, the democrat, he did, you know, admit to having a twenty million dollar programs. So there is a little bit more transparency than there used to be. I think the becomes there's as evidence continues to mount a, perhaps a little address at some point and will let United as a world or divide us as a world. That is the big question. So anyone on little, that's a fun little conversation about the Iraq war, a huge blunder. And by the way, as we always mentioned, George W Bush is not cute, and that was a horrible time in American history. He is a war, criminal t one day man. One day we'll be able to get down to just like psychic problems, like real things that are a part of the reason why we can't evolve because we can't psychically upgrade. On a part of his understanding that we are all one giant being including whatever it will come in that the universe is both a making of our imagination and also contains our imagination. We're gonna wrap our heads around that. I mean, then maybe maybe we can fix the roads well, the roads or something that should that nothing psychic about that that needs that comes from funding and Domino's pizza. This episode of side stories is brought to you by Adam and eve dot com. Are you looking spice things up in the bedroom? He been fantasizing about surprising your lover with an adventurous new toy or adult movie will. Here's an offer. 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Eighty percent off one item when you type side for the offer code upon check out when you do, you'll get three free DVD's, a free extra gift and free shipping just use offer code side at Adam and eve dot com. That's s. e. side at Adam and eve dot com. All right. Let's move on South Carolina. Let's go to South Carolina, beautiful state. I love South Carolina, north love grits. I love the ocean of grants a South Carolina woman. Now she has been charged with fatally poisoning. Her husband using chemicals found in eyedrops a South Carolina woman. She's been arrested. She allegedly poisoned her husband over a period of three days in July detectives in York county arrested and charged Leinna assu, Clayton with murder and unlawful malicious, tampering of food. Although I don't think that I dropped her food because they make no very sippy as sick even if they're not poisoned her husband, Stephen divall, Clayton between the dates, July twenty nine July nineteenth and July twenty first twenty. Fourth of July twenty. First, of course, being my birthday in the press release. The sheriff's office also shared that Stephen sixty four died on July twenty first at their home and that the investigation autopsy to talk. Ecology tests discovered poisonous levels of a drug that I cannot even come close to pronounce him in the body of the victim, and they found it infrequently used, I drops what I'm saying here is you can no longer get away with killing your spouse, you this academy, but you can't do it at all. We see it on forensic files all the time and it's just killing your loved one. You can't do it. You cannot maybe don't do it in the fifties. I think you could do it. What. You can do it, no, obviously can do it, but you need to really think about it. Well, how would you even possibly do it? You got all the tracking out there. You got so much DNA. I am not going to. I'm not going to sit and reveal my plans of murdering my new wife on this show do this now, but then I can't. I'm not doing this. All right because I don't wanna murder my wife. I wanted to tell one or to live. Well, that seems a little scary. It seems like you really have a plan there if you can't even share like ingest because this is a comedic program, there's a lot of, oh, I forget, yes, I know is I actually wonder if I were to really if I was going to kill someone, they say you wanna like you gotta get rid of the body first of all. Sure. Because without a body, this no crime, that's what happens. I mean, there's a crime, but with that that is really what hinges you're talking really about avoiding being found guilty in court. Right? So you need to do in my mind is as suspicious as it is. To be honest, you got to blow up the house. Like even with an apartment complex. I mean, this is brutal, but technically you need to take out the entire building. They'd still find the body unless you can get the heat. So being partially if you go, you've make a friend with somebody who works at the airport. You get some air plane. Fuel was it does take a lot of heat to go to takes a lot of heat Tig night. Right. And so what I would do is something owns lines of you cover the whole house, an airplane, fuel, and then you spark oven. But when the neighbors realized that their that, their neighbor is now dousing in the entire apartment complex and laughing on oil until it's, I'll be like avid a bit of a barbecue. A lot of screw up as always money. Well, unlike you Henry, although I'm not sure how your neighbors were described you Ken Sanford who knew the couple very well. He told the herald that he was in shock, and that Leinna seemed quote seemed like a sweet old lady and I'll tell you one thing. That's why you can't do. Can you trust who can you trust these days? Old people. And I love old people. I love all the people, but they're kleptomaniacs, which is up bad. They, they've lived a long time on this earth that they should be able to take whatever they want. Of two f. though? Yes. Oh, love to make it make it man. Absolutely. So late us, she's fifty two years old. She's currently being held in the York county detention center. It's unclear whether she has secured legal representation, but this is going to be an interesting case there. I remember from west bend, fus three going to say this again, get a lawyer, get a lawyer, no matter what it is that you've done Rondo lawyer, even if you're innocent, speak to know unless a lawyer is standing right next to you. Yeah, especially if you're innocent. I mean my again, get Ron Kuby Kuby on it getting that Cubie Heqiu. You know, why do we want to kill her loved one so much like why is that. Have to be like, why do I guess I do understand this sort of passion that come from knowing somebody for Milan time and and the things that I were cute than are now a knowing that eventually turned into a Black River of hatred down deep in your soul or sure I don't want to. I'm not going to bring those Abreau skew family into this, but I will say if you do want to play the long game, you just very buttery foods, very, very fatty foods. Not a lot of exercise be like, just sit, sit owed, you owe more cigarettes. Maybe you want some whiskey. Oh, we got some gingers random picked up a whole foods, you know, you can do it. That's just the long game of, you know. Even my mom openly talks about poisoning my father. Every time she can. She constantly brings us up how she can't wait for him to pass. And eventually she will go to France with somebody she'll meet at a quilt store like she has a lot of escape plans, right, lotta fun fences. Here's here's a hot take spoke to get a divorce, get a divorce. I know that it seems daunting to break up with somebody. I know it seems especially, and this is also like, I mean, we've all been trapped and even semi abusive like the idea of being in a semi abusive thing like you just get your shit. You do whatever you take, you wait for them and go to sleep. Eventually, they got to go to sleep. Sure. And you get your shit. You gotta go back ready to go at any time and you leave rise leave, and then you'll deal with the fucking shit afterwards hop on you kill them. Well, that's the, you know, pulling the band aid off. That's what you gotta do. But of course we are not here if you are in any kind of relationship like that. Of course, yes. Get help and get on out. Which of course, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm not a therapist. I know for a fact that I, I have a go back, but it's for me and my family and it's for when the shit goes down. Yes, actually, I will take all of whatever cash I have and I will melt it down into a series of gold objects and that's where all of my money will be with the precious stones that I have. And then when I'm traveling amongst the Inca, some down in South America, I'll be able to trade for good, but you do understand that it's it's mostly paper money that we deal with in this country, and that just turns to ask you do know that. So we'll turn saying I wanna get a wanna have like, you're going to turn you into paddle. Are you gonna go and turn your cash to gold, or are you going to start going to take? That's exactly what a big gold pentagram that I hang on the wall that is technically all of my money with rubies in it. But then what about college? What about the college fund or just like random, Wendy will have to go to get a job wa if she wants to go to college. All right. I'd also if we take, if you go to Florida, you've got the Florida prepaid. There's a lot of ways to get college set up for your child. And I mean, again, when he just has to do well in high school, Yup. I hope she can. I really do. It's not easy these days and maybe she can become not. She can become homecoming Queen herself, just make sure your, we'd hasn't gone missing because then she's given it to the other kids a now be mad about it mean like, get your own damn stash. We also have a tail here now poisoning of the eyedrops that's one way to kill somebody. But evidently there's a nother way that I will never be killed this way because I will never go skydiving. So it's Easter Sunday, two thousand fifteen Theravada field in southern England forty year old. Vicki Cilliers jumps from assessment plane, four thousand feet with a parachute strapped to her back. Unbeknownst to her. She has been sabotaged and what starts as a fun Easter hop and pop ins in tempted murder. Yes. And unlike Jesus, you cannot rise again. So do not. Could do not do this in on the ground below. Watching from the parachuting facility is Vicki's thirty eight year old. British military, sergeant husband a meal Cilliers okay. He watches the events unfold with his newborn baby that Vicki gave birth to only a couple months prior Vicky falls from the sky at sixty miles per hour. As her parachute begins twirling up on it self not good, and she plummets to the earth from four thousand feet miraculously. She does not die. She instead receives a broken pelvis and a fractured spine. How the hell did she live. Guy. Okay. Well, let me illustrate with a quiz. Okay. So if either of you were jumping out of a point which I know for both of you is a complete and utter impossibility. Yes, never. Never. Your parachute starts fucking up mid jump. There is another skydiver next you in the air and you notice that you are also above a grape vineyard below. Do you a try to grab the other skydiver and hope their parachute supports you both be aimed for the grape vineyards below or see simply embrace death? I would definitely grab the person next to me. Yeah, I think I would grab the person next to me and try to use them as a surfboard like silver surfer. Okay, that's wrong. So you both die. So the answer is to go limp in embrace death. And so. Never will, but then you're still not happy after you embrace death, and then you don't die. You're like, I just went through all the emotions in every case where somebody who survived a fall like this. The only reason that they live is because they hit recently ploughed dirt, and that is what happened happened to Vicki Cilliers interested. So honestly, if I would ever jump out of an airplane which again, I it would require me to be on so many beals and I mean, bud lights, I would have to be so hammered. There'd be like a good idea. Let's do it. I'm going to face my fears. And then honestly, I would go limp if I was about eight crash though, because when you're hammered your body's just like, all right, like it could go maybe live. And then I would say thank Bud Light. So according to police and the parachuting facility and the courts the day before Vicky, did this jump her husband meal Cilliers who is a decorated British military sergeant, oh, cook her backpack into the toilets, and then fucked with the wires. What's the next morning? He was like, hey, you should go for a jump you because the just had a baby just had a baby nine months ago. I think it's it's. You should treat yourself to to jump because she's actually inexperienced parachutist honestly, if anybody ever strongly encourage you, hey, you should go for Trump today. Yeah, that'd be. That'd be great. Right. What do you do when you try to eat breakfast? Throw gopher job, I will say, get up. Let's go. I did just go here shooting about three weeks ago. I don't like it predicted. Now, if you have a sapling of desire inside of. Body to do that. I say, completely embrace that. Yeah, just make sure your relationship is really strong. Make sure that no one wants to kill you in any way, shape or form. This does seem like an episode of Columbo seem like a Columbo murder. A week before the jump. A meal Cilliers stays at his army barracks for the night and leaving his wife and two kids in her home in their home, and he tampered with the gas. As you guys mentioned before, he tried to get the gas to explode the house, and luckily Vicki catches at times fixes it and then texts, her husband are you trying to kill me l. o. l. what is going on here? If you have to ask that if you have to ask it and that's one of those I hate to. I love the if you haven't seen the gif of Leonard laughing. It's very funny. That's one of those last words like like, but seriously. Logo that you are though, right? So he tries to kill her with that would with with what was more of a traditional way too. We got the exploded house and then a week later he says, okay, let me let me up my game here and twist some shit up in her parachute by a book like elaborate ways to kill your wife, the world's most crazy ways to kill your wife can even wife for the fun way. So a meal sillier is has all the traits of a classic psychopath. Interesting. While Vicky was in her hospital bed, he was texting his girlfriend off to the side. Stephanie goalers who's also a parachutist. And he was also texting his ex wife who sleeping with at the time and also trolling for sex workers on back pages online. Interesting. What he was trying to do trolling. I say, searching. He basically he was trying to make a clean getaway from Vicky. How would this make anything easier for him? I guess the problem they make this his life. Obviously, he's going to prison forever. It made his much more complicated than it has break up. Just break up with the purse or don't data skydiver. I don't trust these guys. They tempt death all the time. They. Everything becomes boring to them every every single day. So you need to tell me you're, I'm dating a professional skydiver and then I'm supposed to make love to this person and I'm they're exposed to expected that gives them a thrill, doesn't give them a thrill. My body isn't flying out of a plane at twelve thousand feet. Basically this guy approached murder as if he were if JAMES BOND had like a desk job roses, the kind of shit that he would do well, it's a good thing. Double o seven was busy fighting all of those super villains and saving the world. Multiple times over this guy is like, he's like, deadpool. He's justly. He wants death or I guess he wants well, I guess death deadpool never really a none. The less whatever. He's a bad person. Well, I'll also put it this way. He spent a lot of time. He could have just been figuring he could have been figuring out a way to get out of the relationship and said, figuring out how to murder somebody. Well, he was also trying to get insurance money from their share because he spent all of his. He's using crippling. Debt, because he would go off on these excursions with Stephanie Goeller or Omani one sex worker or is his ex wife. And so he was basically trying to clean up all of his debts from his fuck vacations with a high. But it's never liked that works like that? No, because the detective always turns around in his trenchcoat with his little cap on, he says, one more thing. One more thing when he was arrested when when he was arrested, a meal only said to the cops, I'm disappointed that you would do this in front of my subordinates, which is a. His subordinates. He was a sergeant in the army, oh my God. Oh, right. Where I baby. I'm sorry, you got caught on your perfect crime. I don't understand. Like of making the perfect crime. If this is like if you're ever in the middle of a crime plan and you're like, this is the perfect crime, right? You might as well just by handcuffs on Amazon. Just take yourself to the police department. Right. It never is. You don't understand. Human life is far stranger than you want to be things are not cut and dry. So speaking of gas lighting, someone, if you also, if you feel like you're being gasoline in a relationship, you most likely are being gassed late. This woman, this woman was like, it is happening. This woman was mentally bullied by this spy meal. Victoria was mentally bullied by this guy to the point where so much evidence was presented in front of the court that Emil was the person who sabotage your parachute. She initially acquiesced and said yet, I guess that's the case he, it's, you've, you're showing me all the evidence and also you're showing all the text message records of this guy cheating on me constantly. And then halfway through the court or halfway through the trial, she becomes a hostile witness to her own murder case real fishy says, no, this can't be the case. A mill loves me. No, she went all the way reverse. She just lost. She's completely gone. So yes, she became like a Stockholm syndrome. What happened was he found guilty. So actually last may of this year, a meal was sentenced to prison for life. All right, very good. And she can walk and everything. She actually started made a miraculous recovery. That's incredible. All right. Well, hopefully she gets the help she needs to because obviously this guy had a grip on her mind. Yes, we'll speak. I remember this guys if their goal of the signs are in front of you. If unfortunately you find a folder on your loved ones desktop that says, how to kill Cheryl, right? You know, for a fact that it's not a bit even if he says it's a bit. No, it's the. That's not a good bit. Oh, my well, speaking of mind control, let's do this store. We talked about it a little bit last week. It's from an article. There's actually a lot of articles, but this is called leave this. The name of this article or the title of this article is leave no dark corner. So we'll just start you on this story a little bit more to extend the conversation we had last week and we'll just follow this story throughout the year here in the years to come because it really is out of the television show black mirror. It's not an episode though this is happening in real life, so it's a dystopia and vision of the future. It's already happening in China. The communist party calls it a Social Credit system and it's supposed to be fully operation. It'll by twenty twenty. On the last episode Henry said, how are they tracking the people? Evidently they're going to use RFID chips to track the people's movements, their cars, and obviously all the cameras are all the TV cameras that are all around a China. So this is really a crazy story. What's going to happen within years in an official party outlined claims, it will quote allow the trustworthy to roam freely under heaven will making it hard for the discredited to take a single step. If that's not horrifying. I don't know what is the Social Credit is like a personal scorecard for each of China's one point, four billion citizens in one pilot program already in place. Each citizen has been assigned a score out of eight hundred in other programs. It's around two, nine hundred and citizens with top scores get VIP treatment at hotels, airports, cheaper loans and fast track the best universities and job. Yeah, buddy. No, it's about two things are really going down in China. We were seeing it happened from the top down there where here United States, we're, we are sort of doing it to ourselves in terms of our own personal monitoring of ourselves and the giving into the what. What the corporate talk Crecy buying east phone spying all the things that are constantly tracking us. It's very interesting. We're going to be an point in time. Where do you really feel it's best to live in a world where we'll as long as I have nothing to hide, and there's nothing wrong and the idea of slowly but surely obliterating the ideal of dissent they, you can't even have. Thoughts in your own mind. There's no way you can behave this constant idea that everyone has to be perfect them. We're all these perfect little angels with no pass that we have no weird views. We have nothing about us. It's a little Janke. This creating a homogenized group of perfect spherical brains, it is horrified. And if you go to this article, this show with the cameras or the cameras look like, and they show how they monitor the people and against. So basically folks who are, you know, it's interesting. I was thinking about this in the context of our credit score system. So in the US we have our credits shoots for real dude will. Yeah. And that should for real. And then I remember when my ad bad credit, I was fucked. Yes, you have bad credit and you. That is an indication of your self worth that it's an indication to how worthy you are of getting good loans or getting into the nice communities and things like that in the US. However, you can build your credit score up. But of course, we do have these kind of social systems in our country. To this takes that to the next level without for without to say the least it's like real life. Clout. It really clout because a part of it is at your credit score. Yes, we can increase it and it's got a sun'll effect on your life. It things are. Things are fucked up. I mean, it's hard to get a car. It's hard to get a house as hard as you that kind of things, but it's a very subtle social deflections or something like this where it's really, really over. And then if you listen to the interviewed several citizens, which I'm certain, we obviously don't have the entire purview of this is going to be people that are only positively speaking about it. What about it? I would never say anything bad about it. Yeah, they say they're saying go, you were getting used to it though, was getting used to it though. That's absolutely horrifying. And it's an interesting thing coming back to our culture here. A lot of a lot of companies when it comes to social media, clout. They'll target people who have more of a following on Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, all of these things, and they'll, they'll request that they become influencers and things like that. So it's interesting how we weigh our our cloud as well. So we're not. We're not squeaky clean on this by any means. And certainly New York's to New York City is surveillance state. But this again really takes it to the next level. Because if you don't have a lot of social media followers, you're still free to roam the streets. The government's not going to be like stay in your home. A part of the way United States works would seems to be is an unrepentant obsession with being famous and they do it in our in our capitalist system is that we're supposed to the idea is reward. Those. That are super successful. Right? And so a part of it now is that people are seeing the writing on the wall is that if you if I the verified check if I tweet at delta, like if I have a problem with delta, delta gets right back to me, right? They'll go into because it's because I have the followers. I gotta do people see that they understand that in a way the it's not equal. It's automatically in this little section here where it's not equal to people are getting a little bit more of a, you get more customer service. You get where eventually everybody look at Taylor swift now being really intensive with her political views and it saying it's doubling voter, registration, and Tennessee. It's actually having a palpable effect. And so now we're going to see more and more people driven towards being famous, doing whatever it takes and this weird titantic self fulfilling machine Royer you are nobody unless you're famous, it's very, it's very, it's very strange. We, we're sliding into transmit so fast. Our heads are spent. It's funny to metropolitan is one of the greatest comic books ever. What were you gonna say? It's just interesting, like I way way which is one of the biggest political dissident voices of China or he's no longer in China, but he has a an Instagram following a five hundred thousand people. And so it's almost like as we go forward, the battle between authoritarian organizations like the Chinese government and the the voices of dissident are going to be fought. It's going to be fought on social media. It's interesting how right because it's fear. It's true because a part of what Trump showed Ray was just the power of talking directly to the devoter's is what actually swung bullshit his way. And then what happened is that we are doing the same thing where it's you have these amass little clouds of many populations that amused like Amer against the powers that be horse. Twitter is also it's it's problematic in its own rights beacon of authoritarianism. I believe that they have threads of that and Google naturally just goes along with everything the Chinese government wants. So they're Google. Is quite different. Let's way again, you gotta use being or. Go, that's good anyway. So basically we should be downloading technically everyone should be downing tour browsers asserted, getting on the fucking. That's where we start going into the breakaway internet. That's next which I think we'll be very interested as should. And so just again, going back to this story here, the folks on the bottom are going to be locked out of society, banned from travel barred from getting credit or any government jobs to system will be enforced by the latest, high tech surveillance systems as China push us to become the world leader in artificial intelligence. So the future is now and I gotta say it's not as fun as when I watched it inside five films when I was kinda cool like it's fun to watch, and then you still had like a normal society, but indeed there that's the war to come. So we'll keep embrace it. Man cannot say, brace the madness. That's exactly let's be better with it. That's exactly what the Chinese people said. They're doing right now with this Social Credit program. And that's not what I mean. I don't mean like gold. It's not go along with it. It's just understand, we're, we're at understand that this is the well we're at right now is that things are very overwhelming and it feels like it's going at light speed. It is going very fast, but you can catch up by keeping yourself educated understand where things are headed and keep your own personal life together, like, go love your family, do what you love duels like try to hold it don't be swayed by the entire machine because you're also watching the machine whip you up into a place where you're entirely controllable. So even the woman that they follow in this study, she is, she works for the government, loyal Chinese citizens. She's only at seven seventy at eight hundred. So she gave me get a perfect score anyway. So we will continue to follow that story for you as they start to implement. It should be coming in next year and my God. I mean, China talk about it's just very bizarre to see this happening again in our lifetime because technology is allowing it and we have to, we have to be very, we have to be very adamant and control technology to be better big. Good things for us. Not not all the bad. All right. Well, there you go, I guess, no, there you go. There you go. Well, there you go, then. Okay, everyone will thank you. We fixed it. I think we've fixed. We always fix it. You know, we always fix every show. We fix it. We fix it. We fix it. Okay. Well, thank you all so much for listening. We love you very much. Thanks for giving in to our patriotic and you guys are the greatest. Let's see. Anything else. Henry. Do we? What? Do we have any announcements to make next week? We'll be doing a listener possum very acceptable. Spooky again, keep it out like we've been watching news. I'm making my way through the hell raisers. Oh, I will say man l. razor three, it drops off. Well, that franchise, I love Clive Barker I really do. But at some point they just I think they stopped writing scripts. I d the pinhead becomes a little bit more of like an anti hero. Right, right. Yes, which is will you know it in bad? I was watching. I watched the original saw last night with. Cook. And I say, first of all, it's not nearly as gory as I remember. And I know jigsaw was actually still bad because now they did the same thing with them wherever went actually praises him because they found life through through him, torturing them, which know that shit. I told think that's normal. He makes a scape rooms that give you like a moral clarity. Yes. Once he becomes a moral warrior that it's like, what are we doing here? What's I? I want to watch a horror movie. Yes, please. Lord, I don't need to see who were we're getting. So clo- also say at this point, when this episode drops, the detective popcorn plush is will be available. So go to less Whitman protective popcorn. When you have that, plus she, you'll never be alone. You can have it in your car. You can have it in. If they let you take it through security at prison, if you're ever letting if you're going to prison, maybe you can take it. I'm not sure. And guess what? What I'm going to advise against you, please don't fuck it. There's no reason to fuck it. I'm not. I'm maybe even putting it in your head. Is it bad? On it. I don't carve a hole into it and fuck that tech of popcorn. Plus you will divorce. It's not. It's not good. It's not right. You just put that out into the universe. So we know for a fact it's going to happen at least once now. All right, everyone think you all so much for listening, hail yourselves. You give your tones if you're out there and your Levin neutral to make sure your life. And then if you're laughing and you're living, you'll definitely be learning and then law of it on your limited autumn. Now, that's an accident. I can't even place. That's european. Com may may loon I which is how Furby says, I love you. Oh, that's very nice. Thank you. One, four, three one. Forty, three. I love you. That's from the Mr. Rogers documentary. Mr. Rogers, obsessive compulsive way of saying, he loves you. He'll say.

Henry Iraq Stargate murder United States Vicki Cilliers Saddam Hussein George W Bush Abe Lincoln Ben Kissel high school Joe dirt Big Hat Adam South Carolina Vicky China American Cowboys York county
Survivor B&B Season 38  Preview RHAPup  with Mike Bloom & Liana Boraas

Reality TV RHAP-ups: Reality TV Podcasts

1:56:05 hr | 2 years ago

Survivor B&B Season 38 Preview RHAPup with Mike Bloom & Liana Boraas

"Some game that I'm right to your mom. Offense. The R H A Payton. From day. Awesome school. I can tell you. The are. Hi, everybody and welcome to the RHA BNB's coverage of survivor thirty eight edge of extinction. My name is Mike bloom. Here forget another visit another session with the BNB. We were not going extinct anytime soon hopefully to tackle this new season of survivor with some fun games and against along the way, let me bring in my to co host to break down the preseason of this season of survivor. I Mike O host of the BNB the lovely Liana Boras who puts the comma in Kama Sutra, Eliana. How you doing? Did I miss something? And someone's video is that a reference it's the name of a tribe. Oh, the comic drive. Okay. Well, man, you know. Okay. I must ATN. Oh, never mind. Anyway. Thank you. While what a great introduction. I just feel like I'm really starting the season off on the right foot by completely bungling. My intro. So just raise the flag right now. We might you might wanna bail and start over here. Well, if man mad you suck at this Leon there we go. Okay. I was about to say we're also have our head writer here. Pull off the new puts the Magno in Montana. Those are the stretch might but. Yeah. Hello. Hi on. I'm excited to be back with you to wonderful hosts of the BNB. So we were actually talking about this right before we came on the air. Here comes survivor thirty eight which brings not only fourteen new contestants for returning contestants and a whole new twist. But just entire sue NAMI of survivor coverage, which I think I'll admit for all three of us snuck up on us a little bit. I don't know if it was the celebrity big brother stuff going on all the beginning of the year things rushing in. But I don't know I feel like survivor thirty eight sort of snuck up on us. But I guess got enjoy the surprise that comes out of it. We were truly blindsided by the fact that this starts next week. Yeah. I'm just happy that the had four walls and a roof and adore still, thankfully because he didn't have a whole lot of time to get it put back together. But yes, I am looking or into the season. Although it definitely did. Sneak up on me. And this is going to there's going to be a fun. I'm excited. So I feel like it used to be that the summer offs. Like it used to be at the winter off season was worse than the summer off season in terms of like because you feel like it's going to be shorter than than it is. But I think was for anyone who's across big brother and survivor fan this. You know, the big brother stuff is really makes it so like it felt like we were we didn't take a break at all survivor yet not to mention rupaul drag race has been happening as well. The challenge just up surf if you're a fan of reality TV in general, you've never gotten up from the table you've been sitting just piling this buff bay into your body's for the past couple months or so during the holidays, and now I guess we're ready to get on a rice only diet as we talked about survivor thirty eight we've a lot to get into obviously between the cast the twists and everything else under the sun. But I guess I wanna start by just asking Paul. What are your overall thoughts about edge of extinction? As we are about to as we were on the edge of the edge of extinction. What are your thoughts about it? Overall. Weirds? I when I think about this cast and just going through them and reflecting on them. And I spent the last couple of days in preparation for this podcast. You're listening to out there with with I one out in reading stuff online in watching ET Canada videos. I don't really know how I feel about this like there's for the majority of the cast. I feel like they're fairly just normal people. And in a lot of ways the covered we've gotten from them has been pretty low key. They like there's not too many wackos. We still have feel like a handful of the really like the the cliche people were trying to fill in whether that be like, we need another Tony, you know, or we need another southern superfan that we kind of have a few of those for the most part. I just kind of like, I don't know what to think lies people seem pretty normal. I think that's interesting because I totally get what you're saying about Nowak os their few people like, Wendy, who are really very loud and. Ver- very much stands out. But I think there's a lot of say subtle wackos. I don't know if that's a phrase like at us. Ron Clark Aurora. Rick war dog I get there's gonna be a lot of fun characters. I think that they're just more subtle penalty than maybe what we're used to and in that were in comparison to big brother as well. That's what we have sort of his immediate pairs. Of course, we're never going to have those types of people. I would like to redact. My my one word answer gave from weird please change that too subtle. I this cast and the season subtle. I mean, I guess can we determine what subtle wacko is. Can we call that? Like quirky. What does that lie on the spectrum of adjectives? I don't know. We'll have to wait for a mad libs game before we could figure out subtle wacko the definition of subtle wacko. I think it's someone who has a lot of. What are strong personality traits? But they're not completely overwhelming. Just you know, John Clark is the guy keep going back to I mean, although I guess he had a movie made about him. So. You know, maybe he's the wrong example. But even someone someone like ream, for example, she stands out to me someone who got kicked out of a gym because she was arts. Ways with her trainer. Liana? That is the perfect example. That's who I was gonna I'm listening to it. I love her like, she's such a character, and she's kind of chill, and then like the more you hear from her in the more like the tiny get to all the stuff you can really absorb about regular like, okay? There's definitely something wacky here from this woman, new something very calm, and she's a mother as she watches virus or kids to. Yeah. Cut to the season for being kicked out of the gym because how she reacts at lost two pounds or something. So subtle wacko reap just say that Lauren Rimmer went might be my favorite from the preseason. Yes, right. I forgot I forgot about her. She will she I feel like there's a lot of comparisons. Though. In terms of like, I don't wanna get too much into the cast, you know, the nitty gritty of it all because we're gonna get into later on. But very matter of fact has the same haircut. You know, I think she's very direct with her reproachable sif she can replicate Lawrence success in the game. But I feel like Lauren was regarding the same way as Raymond like. Oh, boy, good luck to her myspace outta water. So I'm not counting out ream just yet. But yet her her talk with the risk Cox civically what you're saying about her raging her trainer, which got her kicked out of Jim. I think is going to boat. Extremely well. For good TV. I just like this concept of, you know, having to pay the price for a particular archetype paying that invoice like Reema has to pay the invoice for the Lauren Rimmer character that did. So well on here's healers Hustler's. So leeann do you have any overall side for the subtle wackos of it all when it comes to just this group of people? Yeah. I I think like most people when I first heard about the edge of extinction twist. I was like, oh, no. And then. You know, Joe being sort of this scapegoat almost for how this twist who. Go wrong scape. He is the scape jokes of the season. I think that you know, there's obviously sort of this immediate negative reaction. But as I get closer. It's like, you know, what who cares if this is a disaster. It's going to be so much fun to make fun of. And who knows maybe it could workout. Maybe we could see some really fun psychological warfare out on the edge of extinction or island of extinction. Whatever it's called who knows? We'll figure it out. And I'm just going to go into the season being really optimistic for all of our subtle weirdos. I mean, this group actually made me pretty excited. I understand what you mean. Paul with like listening to their interviews. There are some quirky things that some of them say, and they do sort of some of them really get their time in the sun to show off their full wackadoo nece, but I do feel like across the board. This is a fairly mild mannered people. But they're also one of the biggest groups of super fans, I wanna say since we've seen like millennials versus Jake's some the past five seasons or so which is super interesting given the fact that aid the bringing in these former players and be completely throwing in a new twist. That's what they sort of expected with a ghost island. Right. You pass good about a superfan that when they give you one of James's hit it from survivor China to get that camera moment to relish it and say, oh, cool. I've been looking forward to holding this for quite some time. So I do wonder if that's the reason why they did it. But it is interesting to note across the board. You have all these people saying I've been watching since the. The beginning since I was six inside was seventeen. I've applied countless numbers of times doesn't really seem like we have that many recruits here, and I don't know how well that bodes one way or the other in terms of actual good TV because I know that sometimes recruits and people who don't necessarily know the game if bigger it out on the fly and make the most entertaining television and sometimes make pretty damn good players as well. But I think it's a noted trend that exists in this cath, particularly that might separate it from the path that came before it. This is suspiciously. Similar to a concept that I was thinking driver should do. It's called fans versus favorites. Like, you take like you take like favorite contestants. And then you put them against people who know their games and really been on board since the beginning. I think it could go really, well, that's really innovative. I hadn't thought of that. It would be really cool to see a season structured like that. Never seem not before. But I think with this group of players the fact that they all at least have watched the show, I think is really interesting because I think it could make for a good season. Although I think that typically the best cast in my opinion or ones that are pretty diverse until you have a group of both recruits and super players because you know, when you have a lot of super fans people who know how to play the game, they still need some pawns. But you know, who knows I really think the varying degrees of quote unquote, superfan dome within this cast is pretty wide. So I think even though somebody's like, oh, I've been watching from day one that is a little different than someone who really studies the game and is super into it from a analytical perspective, but both to be terrible players both could be wonderful players. So I think that that it'd be interesting to see how that plays out knowing everybody's sort of different levels of fan. And of course, the big factor as well is interesting of a Catholic. This may be it depends on how much we're actually going to see them because of this edge of extinction twist seasons that have had redemption island, which might be the closest comparison to this. New twist notoriously had some pretty unbalanced editing when it came to emphasizing a group of players while simultaneously shunting others to the effort of like when you put them on redemption island, you have to dedicate a course of a segment to them because there's a challenge going on each and every episode, but otherwise you're not really developing many characters they're outside of someone like Matt Elrod whose entire story is based within extinction island. So that's going to be interesting as well. I do wonder how many of these personality is quite honestly are going to be revealed when so much of the story is going to revolve around this new concept in the game. I think I think the one advantage that the that the season has willy of fourteen new players here. You know? You know? So there's I think that gives more opportunity. This isn't a twenty percent cats. I think having a couple extra people definitely gives us a chance to really get to know. Some of these new players. I hope so anyway. Yeah, that's a good point. And I think also maybe that's why we don't have some really strong characters so far because the counting the editors like man, this is gonna be so crazy together. Please give us some duds that we can just throw in the coroner. Maybe that's what we're in for before we get into our usual segments breakdown everything from the preseason. There is the matter of are always tried and true free season predictions. This is going to be different for a myriad of reasons. And to be completely candid the on an I have been talking about it a bit. We still haven't decided how we want to structure these this season Liana. Can you talk a bit about the difficulties the further difficulty? The times that we usually do it that might come with doing predictions this season. Right. So typically the way that these sealed predictions work is we write up a bio forever. A description of how every single person is going to do on the season. And then when that person is voted out we've read that prediction about that person. Here's the kicker with this twist people get voted out, but they don't ever go home, and unlike redemption island, we don't have this. Well, okay, at least if they're going to redemption island, we're going to have one or two people sort of go every week every other week. We have no idea we have eighteen people the whole time. What are we supposed to do with our predictions because we've read them when they get voted out initially. But then what if they come back from the edge of extinction than do we have to have written a second one? And I tried to write an AA that would handle the complexity of the situation, and I am not that smart. So essentially, I have no idea how we're gonna do this. This is kept me up at night too. So I hope you guys this out. So what you're saying is extinction broke, the I think we've finally found a way to break into the singularity and prevent Skynet from taking over. It's a survivor twist. Yeah. Exactly. I I don't know. How exactly we're gonna do? I mean, the thing is we could do. Well, you know, when they when they voted out initially. So I guess what? We're trying to say here is help us. That's so west. Yes. We're lighting a big bonfire for SOS on the island of extinction because we don't know what on earth. We're gonna do. Obviously. We'll figure something out. But any suggestions would be absolutely helpful. Because it broke us. So yeah, I mean, I guess maybe between the three of us. We can throw some ideas as well. And if people online what to respond to us, the hashtag RHA and be to let us know what they think of all right is or if they have suggestions of for what to do on their own. We have a little bit of time to break this down. Obviously before the premiere comes. But we need an idea pretty quickly. So I guess one thing that I can throw out here. Quick and dirty is we can we can just make a singular winner. Pick. Don't bright who might be coming back or anything. And we just write down three things we think this person will do in the game, and they can be as descriptive or as generic as we want them to be that. That's the super like one a one way of doing these predict. That'll have sort of sidestepping the whole edge of extinction debacle. My thought that I had was I just want to do my. I'm going to go back to basics right out of fan fiction of what I think is happening, including let's say, Rick Devon's gets voted out. And then I write that he gets voted out pre merge. I write that he wins the edge of extinction twist thing eat to come back. And then I have a second prediction for him when he gets voted out again. But then I don't know what we would do for actually reading those predictions. But I was just gonna fan fiction the whole thing out and then try to force fit it in the season. What was the weirdest alliance? You hadn't heroes. We drill age goes to Patrick's alliance. Yes. Yes. Just alliance. And then the ghost of Patrick's alliance because obviously that's how it was gonna work. Jeff minutely incorporate that that's my suggestion. That's my tip. And then you shall be specific as possible with any prediction, you do like does really make it. So you can't win the great. That's I don't really need any effort. Apparently. I. Tried my best to win the past three seasons. I even got defeated by the I I was not the extinction twist, I got promptly my Ascott served to me last time during David versus Belyaev. But I guess if I want to even the playing field. This was suggested to me on social media. I can't remember who said it. But you know, what I have I become rather fond of the brand steel as of late. I don't know if the survivor thirty eight cast members are in there. Now, don't believe the edge of extinction has been built into brain steel. But maybe I can throw the castaways into like a redemption island season Isla all simulated, and I'll write down what happens, and we'll see how much matches up. Yeah. Okay. That's totally weird. I don't even know how the. Then you write the prediction when they lose the redemption island duel. I guess so they'll try to retrofit it again, we're taking a bunch of square pegs. We're putting them into various round holes trying to plug this slowly sinking ship. So we're throwing a few ideas out there. I don't know. Paul. Did you have any other bright ideas? I think as long as you're subtle with what you do. You'll be okay. We'll we're we're in trouble. Then. Yeah. This is to be is so subtle, right? Right. I think here's what we should do. We should aim to have a prediction for every single vote off. Yes. Okay. So I don't know how that will work. Maybe that's what we do. You just do your thing. I'll just do. My thing. Make the segment doubles long twice as complicated. You each take your own system. That's what we want. Here we go. So they'll be a battle of not only each other. But also the systems which one will reign. Supreme right. Yes. Everyone loves complicated confusing and confounding systems. I think that this is going to be a winner for short. Like, we've already spent a lot of time discussing how like. How the hell this is gonna work. So clearly ambiguity. Everybody loves it. Well, we'll put a pin in that right now. Again, send us your thoughts about any of these weird things we threw out in the tank if you want to drain it if you want to add more fuel in there. Let us know let let's move away from the hypothetical into the realistic by talking about this season. We have brought back as per usual are three questions three discussion questions about in. This case the preseason of survivor edge of extinction poll as the guest of honor. Let's start with you. What did you bring to the table to discuss about survivor thirty eight? Well, I brought this kind of discussion point with a little bit of a tiny game with it. Because this is the BNB so Liana you Utah to quite a bit about Ron Clark in the beginning of the show. And I have this weird like very distant but weird connection drunk car because school district I work in in the past. Three years sends teachers to the wrong Clark academy. And so I've known this name for for for like three years when I joined the district now. And so like, I've I switched from what I I moved to this district teaching in elementary school. I now moved high school is much more of a elementary school thing. So I was actually slated. I was going to be the next group to go to the Ron Clark academy. But then I moved up to high school. So I didn't get to go, but I have tons of colleagues who've gone who have interacted with him, and I've just heard stories about this whole experience, and there's so much about the wrong car academy that is present in in my school district. So it's like really weird stuff. He's talking I know all about him already. So I want to I kind of talk about your impressions of him and share mind as well. And then I have a little bit of a game that goes with it afterwards. So I'm just curious what you guys think about Ron Clark as he's an interesting fellow. I I did a bit of a chuckle because I thought it I said the wrong Clark academy. In that made me think of like some sort of evil twin brother of Ron Clark called wrong Clark. I don't know. He's he's the opposite of everything wrong. Clark wants to be maybe wrong Clark is how Ronald play survivor get expelled from Ronca cab. You can go to the wrong Clark academy. I think that's the sequel right to the Ron Clark story. It's the Ron Clark star story. Part. Two colon the wrong Clark story. It's the exact opposite. It's a complete full story about him. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, but what do they get Matthew Perry to reprise his role, and then who would be cap because his wrong Clark. Who's the exact opposite of Matthew Perry's? I don't know the exact opposite of Matthew Perry. Very serious sincere. Not sarcastic whatsoever. Crown I will say Sam, Elliot. Great. I'm excited for the recast version. This started this discussion to go, but. Could probably off the rails. And what the first twenty minutes of the BNB shocker. You could do a friend saying, right? You could like I don't know. What about like, not la- blog? He's evil enough. Okay. Need Matthew Perry to play the wrong fairy the row the run Clark? No, oh my gosh. This is Matt Mike. This is all your fault. You started this with the commerce you job at the beginning of this episode. Now, we've gotten all twisted, and we can't get our way out of this position. This is new complicated for me. I just stick to the basic missionaries where long. So on the question about not wrong Clark or Matthew Perrier's Sam Elliott, but Ron Clark. I mean, this is super interesting because this is the first person I can remember in quite some time who has had such a notoriety outside of the show that as much as Ron wants to say games the game. I kill will relish the opportunity that I mean on playing by the rules and deceiving people how he's performing is going to. I think genuinely reflect how he's perceived in the outside world if I may garner. A comparison feeling not since the days of Jimmy Johnson on survivor. Nicaragua. Have we had somebody who has had such a massing for such motivational reasons that have them be on the show? Could I want to say it would be detrimental? But it might change the way they're being perceived. No matter what since he's regarding such a positive light. I know that he says again, he's gonna try to tweet this an isolated incident. But I don't know a believe it when I see it personally. Yeah. I guess that's the thing though. Is that you know, he was sort of constantly saying, but it doesn't matter. He was okay. He with being labeled as a villain. I mean, he was worried that that was going to happen. But he said that it's going to be okay. And so it seemed like he was somebody who was ready to go out and be his aggressive self. And it didn't seem like he had a big concern over his his image outside of the show. So I don't know maybe when he gets out there he'll start to feel differently as soon as he realize, oh, there's cameras here. You know, I really need to sort of maintain my image. But just based on his interviews. It really didn't seem like that was front of fine. Yeah. No, it's interesting with him. And like so some of the things kind of the main things that that teachers take away with go to this academy like is very big on students and teachers jumping up on tables like during instruction. So I'm like, hey is this play is play a role in in. You know, how he interacts with the firm tribal council, perhaps I'm really did have the great game changer. Jennifer lands daddy over stool during survivor code long. I don't know him. Straddle two stools starts bellowing into the audience. Like, you can't vote me out tonight, perhaps he encourages teachers to build a stage in their room. So that they so that teachers and students jump up on the stage that they're heard when they speak. He also creates this whole system of of it models. It's modeled after the Harry Potter house system, where students are randomly sorted into different houses in that team elements of that you are for good things you do that you win points that acu-. Late of for your team or your house? So I'm wondering if that's gonna play a role here. It's coming to houses against each other on survivor. Yeah. We'll we'll he assign points to drive into the other tribe. So wait. So he's gonna run his private like a mix between Harry Potter in dead poets society. Society combined with like hard core. It's concerning that he's not just standing up on the table. Apparently, he likes to jump up on the the whole the whole process. So it's kinda continues to little activity abroad with us is he he talks about this in some of this pre game stuff that he wrote this book, and I've read selections of the book is a lot of teachers in the district having and it's about Ron Clark's essential fifty five so he described as a fifty five rules like in school for students to really help them succeed. So I thought I want you each picked up retreat one fifty five this is a couple times if it's a bus will just do it once and Higgins between one fifty five I'm gonna tell you what that rule is. I want you to see how can that translate to survivor the season, maybe more specifically how that's going to translate to Ron Clark's gate so Mike join pick a number. Absolutely. I love that. We're trying to all ready turn wrong Clark's book into the Boston, rob roll book and safe. It could be retrofitted into. Survivor game. Give me number. You know, what let's hope Ron Clark banked thirty nine days. Gimme number thirty nine. All right, then thirty nine. Okay. This is very specific. But on a field trip complement the place, you're visiting. Okay. No that s pretty it's pretty applicable because the field the wards braver host merge are about making visits to visit various cultural centers, whether it's him dropping off poise for kids, or, you know, attending, a nice nice, gene feast, so Ron we'll go there, and he'll consistently compliment everyone who's there even when he oversteps himself, or you know, if the kids are smoking cigarettes bit too far too close to him. He's he's gonna make sure to be complimentary of the place that he's staying because that's what good teachers do gosh. I was thinking we could put together the team of Ron Clark would do who else would be embassador to go to the school to drop off the things for the kids in whatever. Whatever location. We're in now. Of course. Yes, she's a gym teacher. So I think she has experienced. You've got a number for me between one and fifty five six day rule. Number six if you're asked a question in conversation, ask a question return drive. Totally tribal council grows. There was a lot of discussion on your tribe today seem to create a lot of tension. Well, Jeff, that's a great question. Now. What would you think about all of the tension? That was being created like, Nope. Jeff's gonna none of that. Jeff assault facial rule. Number six creates a black hole where they just keep asking questions back and forth at each other. Until the space time continuum eventually collapses in on. Like a good run. That's what the edge of extinction means. Oh, good. Other ones. Yeah. A gimme number seventeen. Number seventeen. Subject. Transitions will be subject like like a subject in school subject. Transitions will be swift quiet and orderly. Hey, I guess maybe if he's talking about changing alliances because you know, there are different different subjects different conglomerates of things to study. And so when you're flipping to an alliance or your creating a new froth cluster or voting block to make sure that it is quiet that nobody knows about it is orderly. Everyone knows what pays better on. And they know what. Specifically exactly who their voting for nice, Ana. Nine rule. Number nine, always say, thank you. When given something. Thank you for bringing this game thing for us to do. All you be great on the island. Let's show for the one where each Mike what he got. I'll do number. How does he forty six? Go with forty six through forty six. No. This would not be good some past several wards here. No talking in a movie theater during a movie. John. Talking movie. Disrespect that reams like thing about how she was kept talking about how no one can kicks kids out of the living room if they're like talking during survivor. Yeah. Exactly. So maybe Riemann Ron could be like, the the the chaperones the movie night survive. Or maybe this is talking about tribal councils been referred to before eater. It could be referred to as a movie that you're also taking part in. Maybe he could be shushing people that are whispering to each other Shishir. Already. What's your last one forty two number forty two when returning from a trip shake the hands of every chaperone? So is he gonna go around and shake all the hands of the crew? It's going to be frowned. That's breaking the fourth wall. Little too much. So. It could it could be with Jeff maybe like instead of the shock Abro. Maybe you're gonna you're gonna try to get a handshake. And by the end Jeff's like, no, I just wish asking me questions. Stop asking for my handshake. I don't like you anymore on. I wish you would have picked a roof. If team do not ask for a reward. What you're playing Jeff. We do not know according to a central rule fifteen I will not ask for this for wards. May I shake your hand though? Enough for me. And it was a question. So girly essentials, boom, boom waiting visitor. There. Any other notable ones? Oh this stuff about facing four run a bus. So maybe I'm thinking about like, you don't want to medical -mergency of like, you know, like last season as one really make sure you're facing forward. I like number twenty seven do not stare at a student that is being reprimanded. So maybe getting it from Jeff just don't don't make eye contact copay. This is this other teachers so another teacher is reprimanding a kid don't look at the kit. No, this is this is for a student like Liana class and the teacher, given it to you. I do not look at you. I look somewhere else. Like, I'm I don't draw attention to the fact that you're getting it than there. Yeah. So yeah, I just I'm gonna be interested to see how he does. Because I I've I've known a lot of people have gone to the academy and they've been in sessions with him because the way it works is there's certain days, the Retha they opened up the school to visitors hundreds of thousands of teachers that come through, and they watch model lessons than Braun. The etiquette has other people works with them to the kind of have workshops and stories of. Yeah. I check my apple watch. When when I was in the middle of his session, and he stopped talking and looked at me and said, I'm sorry. Do you need to be somewhere? I've just heard many that he's very very intense person. So it'll be very interesting to see I was expecting him to be more alpha and more kind of in the, you know, more high strung in his interview, but he seems to be at Lisa's interviews was pretty calm. But yet he didn't make some mention of of of, you know, his family saying you're gonna come on to your to strong too fast. So to see what he does. Maybe the reason why he was so communist interviews because nobody was looking at their watch while they were doing him. Yeah. I don't think I don't think she was wearing a lodge. I don't know was to scold, but don't look at them. Don't look don't look at that. Well, let let's dive into talking about not only Ron but his seventeen compatriots on survivor edge of extinction. Let's go to an tradition here on the being be every season are survivors superlatives. So for those that might not remember this. We've created a list of superlatives. Those that might not know what those are those are things like, you know, things you might get in high school like most likely to succeed, a best hair, etc. Over applying them to survive or we're going to try to guess the preseason perspective based solely on the materials. We've been given who we think is most into each superlative. And we'll see by the end of the season. How we did. I do have some from last season that we can reflect back on as well where we get into just want issue a quick disclaimer. If anybody is out there be you a player or fan, and you listen to these and you take some umbrage with what we said about you. I do. Sincerely, apologize. These are taking off of fifteen minute conversations with Josh and ten minute conversations with the risk Cox. So we'll making some assumptions in. I am more than happy to be wrong. As I have been on many many occasions here on the BNB. So let's start things off with one that I think we've had every single time we've done this. And it's most likely to get a hashtag I. We've done away with hashtag showing up on the screen anymore. But I think this is more. So are like basically the camera hog award for most likely to really pop on screen just to give some context as to what we said last season Liana came right out of the gates with really fantastic pick saying miss being to win would be most likely to get because he was hashtag, bee's knees or something. Okay. Credit than I deserve. But yes, Paul you send Mike white. And I said the mayor of flam town we all swung and missed on the big old Christian ball. That was coming our way. Let's see if we can hopefully redeemers on that success or at poll who you think is most likely to get a hashtag out of this group. I mean, it sounds a little bit boring because we know the personal ready. We can pay returning players, right? Yeah. I trust away from this on some of these. They want to talk about other ones. Like, my my first instinct was like, Wendy because she's wacky. But I think realistically, I think Aubrey knows how to talk knows how to get the sound by knows how to make all these different comparisons and metaphors and whatnot. So I think aubrey's is going to roll the screen again this season. What other what other metaphors do you think she might pull out with the well, maybe if she's looking at the people around her it'll be something like this is like I'm like standing on the. Table in the middle of school. And I'm being reprimanded. And no one wants to look at me like that that's going to be trying to you know, bring Ron and under. We should just rerate all of these Pearl. It is to be what Ron Clark would have for supreme most likely to stand on table. Ron Clark most likely to ask Clark. Okay. So for my most likely to get a hashtag, which is a stupid category. Agreed. We should rewrite it. I said Chris Underwood because I very much not. Although they show the same name, Kris noble vibes. Then officiates type stuff from him. So I could definitely see Chris. Chris was honestly the surprise of the preseason for me. I mean, maybe it was me judging book by its cover by just sort of looked him like, okay sales guy from South Carolina seems relatively normal. But like, I know he was Josh's last interview. He had a great interview with the risk. He was just so energetic. And so at the same time, he's the guy was like, yeah, I'm gonna play the perfect gave essentially created like a chi- Mira out of all these other parts of other people's games. And he was just talking mile a minute. He was also talking up his own personality. I totally got the crystal vibes agree on about him simply talking up his good looks. So I think he he really surprised me between you know, what you look at from a bio perspective, and when you actually see from him. Yeah. My notes I have Chris most surprising contestants like same reaction. I had exactly versus like, oh, he's like JP Hilsa Beck of the season. But then as you kept talking what are you even talking about? Because he's like, yeah. I'm going to bring yet this season. What death and then? His quote about failure is the entities of playing the perfect game. Is just something I'm gonna cross stitch into a pillow because it's like, okay, buddy. Yes. I was a love like I don't think we've had any other person won't in quote, not T O S, but memes from s. Paul. We might be a couple of season removed from people walking in and doing memes from the survivor historians. Yeah. Totally. For someone to be like, I don't wanna be a, gene. That's all. I want only God that would be that'd be a win for you guys. I think but Chris may not be the person to do that. But you never know if so many quote unquote super fans season. So I personally went with Chris down as well. And I had Aubrey down to I'm thinking about wacky, Wendy, but I stayed away from her to AIBA with miss Aurora. Mccreary ironing lime super intrigued by Aurora. I'll admit there are certain Karinna 'isms in her specifically this element of like brutal honesty, but I feel like she does bring some sentimentality to it. I think she she also admits to being open and blunt and honest, and I feel like it's that that ability to just I don't know really going on somebody I'm assuming he's going to do a lot of that in confessional. And that might provide the tubby the lunchbox category in terms of just ragging on her fellow competitors in private, of course, I actually had a Rura as well. Because I think that she some do. Yes, said she's totally fine with being the villain. And she said, I think in her bio that she likes or thought she was most like Sierra for her attitude and foot in mouth moments, which I thought was great among some other. Residents. But she also said for one of her pet peeves was knows coming from the mouth. So like. Oh, no. You all better be silent. While I'm here. I swear to God. Between our air is a comsumer, tribe and. Wrong. Clark is Ron's on Russia's. She's on talking. And no, I contact is going to be great. I call this. A roar central fifty six not talking no sound for now from the camera people. Maybe that's go spent so much time on the extinction islands because the common tribe is just going to be a tribe of mute people just looking down as they gather firewood three ending on the shelter. Questions through sign language. Maybe. All right. Let's move on here. Let's go to the flip side from the edit perspective most likely to get a purple edit a tremendous vote we put for DV hall. You spark the whole Natalia debate that took up a good shank of our podcast last time, saying the tally purple edits Liana, you said Keira, and I will make the combo of B, and Jessica I would just Pat myself on the back right there. And it is success. I will know. I'll go first on this one because it's interesting that you said JP hills APAC before Liana area seems like a totally nice guy. But he doesn't even have the same vocal tics as our beloved P. But I don't know if it's just like, the very nice firefighter aspect of it all, but but he was the first person. I thought of. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I I sure had him as the GP the Brennan Shapiro this season. He even when he said, he was like, I think Orissa ask you what makes you unique. Well, pretty normal guy. I don't know. Okay. So you're going to be super exciting. Yeah. Yeah. My favorite thing about Eric. And no fits if you're listening. But there was one point when Orissa was asking. Okay. Have you learned to make fire and Eric says that he watched one YouTube video how to make fire that was three and a half minutes long, and he fast forwarded through most of the middle because he got bored like Eric. That's the most important part. You know, you you don't need to know the final product and the starting product there's a lot of between. That's going to be involved in terms of making fire come to life. I think he's another example this subtle like he's kind of at first glance kind of a snore. Just kind of like oh Qaeda then like he has some stuff like that or awake. When he said that he was allergic to air again people and she asked him about that are sort of Joshua's who camera who was who asked him about that. He was like, well you have to put something on the. Allergies. And he tells the story about like never movie once this girl said, I'm allergic to dancing, so dancing. My parents. So see subtle kind of endearing. Don't be funny quality about. Yeah. Well, that's the thing is when I compared JV I love JP so much damning with Fengyang. Right. Exactly. And honestly to be boring is probably a great thing in real life. If you are boring on a reality TV cast. So in addition to Eric I also had Julia as somebody who I thought might get a promote it because she's just so nice and seems like such a great person. And I think she could end up being a narrator on the season. But the flip side, I could also see her as somebody who just doesn't get a lot of airtime because there's you know, she doesn't really have that. Like one singular crazy standout moment. I similar concerns with her. I think the strongest anxious going for is like you said, she has a potential to be a narrator, and she can be go-to person to explain things. I don't think there's necessarily anything about her. That's like super quirky or eccentric. She's just pretty middle of the road, well-spoken smarts woman. So I can definitely your your concern there. I had Julia down to just because I think in the stuff that I reviewed. She obviously has this really heartbreaking story about losing her father too young age, and how survivors sort of help ridge her gap from a maturity perspective to get her and to help her get closure and help her grieve properly that sort of the only thing I got from her. Unfortunately from a personality perspective says like, I'm a natural people person. I'm an open book and relatable. And this is my last hurrah before Mets will a personality perspective like you said before Paul. There wasn't anything else that really stuck out to him to like really quirky moments that can go one of two directions, as you mentioned might make her a very reliable level headed person that can narrate a lot of what's going on. Or it could mean that she gets relegated to more of the chaff positions. Other fireworks are going off a round her. Then Eric will be there to put out the fire. You know, a whole purple entity. I know how a fire starts I know how to put it out. But like what do I do in between fast forward through that part? Yeah. Well, maybe it was he one of the ones who didn't seem to have maybe less of a soup quote unquote superfan because if you didn't get the surround, and drown Jeremy maybe he might not know how to do it. Yeah. He was the one who when they did the quiz. What's your favorite says? It goes. Survivor thirty eight and then that was it. Yeah. The answer of like who's your favorite or like, what player are you like no one like, I'm I'm my own person. Although I will I have to talk about this quick because I love that Joe Aubrey Kelly and David three of the four of the put themselves as the player there. Most like and Joe put Kim Spradlin. Then makes me believe actually in this cockamamie idea that I have that Joe England was able to make his own angle or England to switch bodies with Kim Spradlin before going on the island because he wants to make sure he wins this. Okay. So this is like freaky Friday meets the wrong Clark story in the fact that Ron Clark is also there is there is the crossover movie between Frikkie frightening. You wrong. Klerk story where I don't know of Joe tricked him or if he asked her kindly, maybe she needed some time away from her kids. You know, a nice vaca-, but they switch bodies and Kim not really getting herself into the Joey amazing frame of mind. Maybe that's why she got the mustache because she thought you know, what? Now that I have none of them inside this big manly bodied. Let me do something fun with it. I've never been able to grow facial hair before. And so she just sort of like didn't realize that wrote down Kim Spradlin as the player that you're most like, and now that draws a lot of conserving the mustache disguise. They'll never recognize me. Did you have any thoughts about not not the kids? Proudly showy amazing. Freaky, Friday, but purple purple. Yeah. I'm gonna leave at fury's. Think kind of speaks for itself. I actually think in a similar sense to Julia not getting substance. I didn't get that much from Lauren. And I felt like she just said all the right things about being an athlete, and how this is just graduated from college. And I can just see you're being the bikini bay that doesn't actually talk on the Schober much. I could see Lauren actually being those that narrator role as well. It seems like Jeff really loves Lauren. I don't remember if he made her is winner pick. But he did say like she's one to look out or so I wonder if that means that the show is gonna concentrate a lot on her, and she just had this idea of like she wants to what the the competitiveness from the soccer field with the bubbliness from the social environment with the brains from her college career. So we'll see if that's mixture that, you know, at least I actually really liked her. I know that she's young she's twenty one. So she's not well wall. But still, you know, she just graduated college seven days before going out there to play. But I think that she is somebody who could really fall under the guidance of. I don't know maybe a returning player. And and really play the game. Well, and I think she's somebody who could really succeed. So I think I could see you're probably falling more under. Yeah. The sort of maybe narrator role. Apart from the fact that she was very discriminatory against people who chose twizzlers over red vines and for the next season of survivor twizzlers versus red vines versus Hershey's chocolate. You know, not all like really get into some hot water. But otherwise, I like her. Would two tribes be colored red in that season. Ooh. Yeah. That's a good question. That would be terrible. But well to a little bit Hinkle so a red pink versus a deep red. So then you can tell the difference very subtle, very subtle. All right. Let's move on here most likely to lip who's gonna be our major flippers on this twist worthy season. Last time. I went with devilish Davey Leon. You went with the popular choice of Natalia and Paul you chose eventual winner Nick Wilson Liana who from this past most likely to flip. Okay. I wrote I wrote Keith so little keys. I love him first of all. But I'm just so nervous for him out there. He talked about. Oh, I know I'm young I'm nineteen. I wanna play different than the other people who have been young who played before me like well, both those people may jury so Melissa nervous about what exactly that means. And I think what it could lead to is flighty game play. And that goes with flipping to you know to another group of people. I thought about Keith as well. My only thing is that Keith was talking about like, I wanna be everyone's younger brother, you know. He really wants to play up that yes-men number two role. I feel that separates from someone like will who was like most medical move. I will do it. Now, I mean control of my own destiny. So I wonder if Keith might be one of those Villalonga is who gets taken out because the other lines was aiming for his number one ally. But he got hit dune idle players younger brothers flip flopping all over the place. None. What do you think Paul? I was I was trying to think if I want to change north thing I'm gonna stick by Mr. jump on the table himself. Ron clark. I just think he's following his own essential fifty one limp. So that you will never have regrets. I just think of anyone he's probably the most likely to flip for the sake of flipping like a just naturally going to be the most aggressive in terms of gameplay considering what he said his pre-game stuff. So that's probably where mistake is that is that one of his rules? Yeah. That was all the way. Well, I mean, listen if he's jumping around why not put some other gymnastics in there. That's true hard. Also, like do rap isn't nobody told Josh incorporate rap into Tj he'll be like as he's teaching kind of breaks into a rap about like long division or something like that. Like, actually the action. That's remains Ono God sorry for opening up. This actually the first time I had ever heard of him before I was even working in this district was he had a group of kids on some like morning network television show, and they were singing for one of the election. They were all singing you could vote. However, you like to the tune of what set rats on you can have whatever you like, exactly. And so that's when I I like canoe who knew he was was doing that stuff. So he does a lot of like singing Rafic in that kind of stuff. Oh, I cannot wait for the collaboration between Ron Clark in Bryce Isaiah after the season hearing, Kris noble. I'm gonna download that like three times. Yeah. Oh my goodness. So I can totally see that too. I think the fact that he said that he's an aggressive person and really wants to play totally lends itself to flipping. But the other thing I was thinking about was when he said that he's really good at creating a family atmosphere. I got for quick second in my mind like coach in South Pacific. Can you imagine if Ron Clark built his own little academy of Ron Clark's? And then they like run the game somehow. And then maybe he gets, you know, at the end he loses. But that's something else that I could see if he doesn't flip. I could see this family like mentality sort of being creative. So I personally went with most likely to flip. Gimme newlywed Gavin just because Gavin made frequent references to like, they might think I'm just the genteel southern guy, but I actually have a brain behind this, and he made frequent references to j t something tells me he's going to appear like JT one point zero. But he's going to play like JT two point. Oh, and JT three point which is to say gives no Fs behind the scenes, and we'll just cut your throat when you Lisa special. Yeah. He needs his Stephen, I could I totally see that too. So whatever I think of Gavin the only thing I think of is him saying my wife because. That's what I heard which to fair. Josh asked him a luck about his laugh. And so that's all I think about so maybe without his wife there to sort of keep him. You you could this idea a much funnier way than my notes marriage. Sing is getting old. Not. But he's he's talking to tell people about his wife. I really was aware really want. I want her to him to make the family visit for so many reasons, but for Jeff to say like. Gavin. You wanted to see Joe come on out radish? But okay. Keep working but use an interesting when I absolutely love just listened to the first one interviews, and is really kind of you can hear how people pick up on social cues and how they are. And with him. I was picking on a subtle way. That I didn't feel like he was always the most active listener and the end his is repeating the same thing again. And sometimes it was like, it was clear clear to me listening that like the next social step would be key Josh's is going to insert something here, and he would keep going with what he was saying it would sometimes kind of keep talking over. What would Josh was getting yet? So I am a little concerned that that he may have fewer problems in the social department that he'd like to think. I didn't pick up on it. But now that you say that that's probably why I kept hearing the same things over and over and over again mocking about what did you hear? Sorry, been my wife. I'm sorry. I do love Gavin. I'm actually really excited to see him play. And I just I just because I kept hearing that so many times that's all the second of my brain. You know, when you're trying to remember these little things about people, I have like superfan, Nick archetype. My wife is like the two notes that I have written down. I'm actually really excited to see him interact with some of these other cast mates because I think he's particularly entertaining. He falls under also my sort of these subtle weirdos. And I think he could have an interesting run on the show. I think I owned that tank top. He's wearing a lot of his intervals. Okay. I didn't pull this comment. Spoiler alert from the Facebook page. So his video was posted. And someone said his wife left him with that. Oh boy. I'm taking visit to my worship after this podcast. Now, I have been through Gavin's conduit. I've been judged based on my wardrobe choices by the survivor casual community. Yeah. That happens a lot. All right. Let's move on here. Most likely to start a podcast, and if we are so inclined what that podcast might be about hall who do you have here. Is it the wrong Clark pug, it could be a central wrong or something he marry half's in the answer? I'm not sure. No. I'm going to give this Todd cast to one of the kind of entrepreneurs on the season who works from home and works being creative. And I'm gonna have podcast called truly Julie and Julia is gonna podcast about some little bit like shoot talked about those or organic or on the what what kind of how you describe the toys. She makes and sells what didn't like what. What words w Kiko wife would echo frontier. K bentham. And to me, she seems like a very interesting person. And I kinda wanna go back and listen to Semper stuff because she was the first one I really research on and I feel like she just kind of has a call presence about her. She can have kind of a chill. Interesting podcast. The weird thing about her is like I'm really hoping that I like her because I want to cheer minds of this crazy woman, I had classes in college who like this whole this could be its own podcast. We tell the story about half this lady. But she's about the same age as Jewish look like, Julie and EKO friendly wooden toys this lady I had cost with was really into making. In the shoe it at a blog about it or something about EKO friendly, sex toys, and so another parallel here and things just got really weird with this leaves the point where she thought the government was filling her having sex in just was like it turned really weird fast with this one. So that's why at least call it. Now that that Jews gonna have a very interesting podcast, not want imagine. What hundred might be like if this is the product. They're filming me. Yes. Julie. That's the show. That's what it's about Julie's out there with her. Tinfoil hat on juvenile Kama Sutra tribes. I guess I guess that's the thing. I hate I really liked her. I think it was funny that she told the story about peeing in bushes. So of course, that's what I wrote in my notes Peden bushes full nation point because I really latch onto the critical things you need to know about a player, but I would listen to her about gas. It's interesting. She used to be a teacher run Clark academy. Two point. Oh is coming. Around the merger recruit might be joy super interesting because I agree Paul total calm presence. Even though she probably is the most out of her element here. Like, she even admits like I've watched couple of YouTube, videos, and unlike other people I didn't fast forward through them. You know, I don't really have much outdoor experience. I feel like there's a good chance. She's gone pretty quickly. But she seems so pleasant I just I'm so intrigued to see like how what a toy maker will do with the concept of fake idols as well. Oh, yeah. If she could get the fake, I don't making kit that could be we can actually see a true thing of beauty unless unless you can only make like trains and soldiers those overly look like idols. Well, you never know all the idols look like trains the season would have. Would've thought he edge of extinction? If only they use the the tribal councils from thirty five which was the train tracks, actually, see. Okay. So for I had most likely to start podcast. This is a very specific idea that pops into my head. So this is of course, teacher Ron Clark and firefighter Aaron haven Hoffman, whatever in it's called fighting fire with fire, and it's a podcast about various competitive activities in their rivalry with each other. And so they talk about Nakal you and all that stuff and how Eric you know, they try to make fire and how he forwarded through it. But then he put it out. And I think the two of them could be really fun. Interesting. Are you sussing out like a rivalry between them or just they'll make good podcast co host? I think they would make the podcast co host. But yes, sure, maybe they'll have a rivalry. I dunno rent my traditions yet. Thank you the idea. So I went with someone who does a lot of talking for his career. Anyway, a gimme a subscription to Rick's clicks where Rick Devon's decides to review the websites that he recently went onto. I'm glad you pick another word that rhymes Derick. Nope. That's that's that's the territory of that woman. You know, that's a lot like Julie. I mean. Yeah, Rick is very he's an affable personality. He was shown he was me Mable or months talking about bussing into this show like Kool aid mad. I think that clearly he has the gift of gab see also seems very self conscious about you know, the method that he's entering the way that he looks keeps talking about his dad Bod. I'm hoping he does well because he's he's an awesome personality. And I'm hoping that he is able to like you say like really blend in with the other bro or mucho guys. He can sort of be their friend, but not necessarily be the alpha who gets targeted early. Yeah. I expected to find him annoying. I did not. And I was very pleasantly surprised. I actually really like Rick. I don't know. Maybe I find his news anchor voice comforting in some way. I also loved him. He was like, yeah. I've got two kids two dogs two cats and a wife was like close a why? And then. Yeah, when he wrote that he is claim to fame rescued a cat snuck up on a trios like you, and Eric maybe he needs to get on the podcast air can rig or Ron whatever his name is. So yeah, I'm excited to have. I would love to see spot Calcio. What do you think about rape, Paul? Yeah. I think I think very much similar shortly on was saying I expected myself to be more of him that I was and I really liked him and price on the cast that could probably relate to the most. So there's a lot of time. It was my dream to be a newscaster. So there's there's a part of me that identifies with with Rick. So we'll see what he can do. All right. Let's move on. Here. We spoke about the possibility of Julie constructing a Thomas the tank engine fake idol. But let's go to this suppressive most likely to find a fake idol. This is the J start memorial award for most likely to find a fake idol think it's real ends up playing it and gets eagle over their face, obviously with someone like David ripe playing you know, there is a high possibility of this occurring. Paul who's your pick for most likely to find a fake idol gonna say shooting countdown together three two one all shout, Eric 'cause I just feel like Eric's going to do it like he's he has that it'll be charm to him and doesn't seem like the show like super. Well. So I challenge you to to find a better pick. Yeah. I was in a hidden and sort of a similar vein. I was gonna say Chris in the data that led him to it. You know? Oh, what's that? I don't know. And then Chris plays it. I could definitely see that. Opening I'm gonna go a little bit unconventional here. Gimme big Wendy. Ooh. That Wendy is super bubbly and so much fun, obviously sticks out like a sore. Thumb just the hair alone. But I wonder if it's a thing where like she does seem like super friendly to the point where she might get convinced to do something that she doesn't necessarily should be doing. So like if someone really wants to burn her they could give her a fake idol, and she could end up playing only for tobacco on her completely. Unfortunately, I could see that happening. I think windy, unfortunately, suffers from the fact that we don't have a lot of other really strong personalities on this season. And so I think not definitely puts her at a disadvantage because she is just so energetic. And so so much energy. I mean that really is windy, and so I think that that could work the her detriment, but if she is super energetic than we could see her laying balls the walls plan all those fake idols that could definitely be something. She would do she did say one of her hobbies was getting into shenanigans and playing a fake idol. I think qualifies as a shenanigan. Absolutely. We think do we think poll that after she gets? She plays for time on survival. Schilling out her own pop culture parody close around the game. And we'll see Bs take action as a result. I mean, I hope so I love dollar descriptions of the types of clothing, she makes and she was so she was so interesting like I wonder if I think she definitely has potential to be someone who like for me and probably prime that sounds like both you're in the same boat like Azure, listing doers. She's so unique and quirky that you are drawn in. So you really are trying to figure out what she site what she's all about. But I think there's a high potential there that either one of people get annoy which I think there's a possibility there or two if there are people are not willing to really like get sucked in by her energy like. She also was the other one noted with some social cues about fact that she was dropping the name of bell. Like Josh supposed to know what bell was come from the the small town of bell. And it was like it took a long time for heating came to the fact. Okay. Yeah, we're talking southern California here or like that. She was worse the place that she her mom were the swamp Miller won't swat swat swat me me. Not miss womp mill Kennedy swamped mill down. So that's pretty bad. But like it just was like shit judge like, wait. What what is that? She says it keeps on know. Like, what is that? Like, so I just think like there is a potential that if she someone who really draws people in our so into of final more about her that it could work, but it is a very high early potentials. I don't know if she'll be around long enough to find that fake guide on like, I don't know. Does she have it this? You have a Saab story where people don't want to send her back to the swamp mill if she gets voted out. Swats waamp meet swap meet swap meets or I prefer slump mill. Swap meets. Okay. I listened to however, many interviews videos with her, and I now just know that it is swap meet meets what did you have? No idea of meets. What is the swap meet where you swap meet? Oh. But. That's that's. Who's podcast particular woman said of toys, we'll do pretty well to swap me. You'll find out on truly Julie. All right. Let's move into some that are more specific to this particular season, we have extinction island, and we know that eventually at some point in time unknown about the castaways and us someone's going to be coming back at least once most likely to win their way back into the game via extinction island, just like Paul set with the fake idol. I feel like we could do the countdown three to one and Joe slash Kim. Yeah. Or coast Brad glam if we want to go with that. But yeah, I mean, a lot of people are speculating that this is something to to really help Joe's game. If he spends the entire time on station island consider that, you know, he's a pretty buff guy who does particularly well in these balance beam challenges and the whole Girona wait at cetera. It seems like you said up pretty well for this. Right. There's no Keith nailed to take him down. There is a key. That's right. Yeah. I mean, I had Joe or Ozzie swims his way back to the islands and somehow wins his way. It was not Joe it's mostly. Point your point. Joe it's just live happily out on the island of extinction. Like, just go. Let him you know, like, oh, Joe. He's just gonna have fun out there. So maybe they don't let him back into the game. Maybe he just wants to stay. So instead of Earl named exile island Earl island instead of Joe island. It could be the archipelago and it's just a series of islands Galvin's about. That's exactly what it is. So otherwise, I actually Lauren with somebody who's stood out to me who could be a really strong competitor. But vision one athlete. Yeah. She's a D one athlete. But I don't think that she is going to be voted out. So then I wrote Lauren, wait. No. I don't think she's going to be voted out. So, but if she does I say Lauren, well, thank you for that peek behind the curtain Liana. You're welcome. Did you have anyone else? Besides Joe in terms of someone who might do. Well, I mean Joe could win his way back twice. But you think anyone else Santa chain on extinction Kelly as well think is is could be potential. I think she is fairly well suited in a lot of challenges. Maybe a Rura seems like she's kind of a B. So is this kind of it's hard because you can't always see on paper who was like a really good at these random survivor challenges. And I think because we know how Joe does that we just that's just the obvious take care. It's interesting not to deviate too much in terms of, you know, bringing back these four returnees even David was speculating like why these or the more I thought about it the more. I realized that these are kind of if you think about a group of the most famous aces that represent the thirties. The most recent group of seasons, you know. You know, these poor would definitely be on the list. There are some other people that you can definitely add on there. But I feel like all four of these people at least bait enough of a name for themselves or even if it's random but coming back for this particular season, their names reputation sort of speak for themselves, but you can't necessarily say about other people have come back to play. Okay. Wait. Sorry. What? No, just because I there was a lot of grousing when the castles announce about like why is Joe back? He doesn't fit in amongst the Kellyanne the Aubrey and the day because they're big strategists. And I think if you think less about the game play aspect and more about like, you know, someone who is notable in the franchise who's played in the past three years, or so then that makes sense more in terms of I think it was it was a pretty good test for me when the when they were spoiled, however long ago last year that they were coming back. I think I like my brother who is he summer between a casual superfan in the fact that he knows his show. Really, well, but doesn't isn't locked into every podcast, and that type of thing I kind of ask him like, okay. Two guys two girls coming back, and I kind of gave him some parameters and did not take him while come up with these four. It was like maybe one other person Italy is just it kinda was the watch ical for people and those representation tuned from we go from twenty nine thirty thirty two. Two thirty three. I kinda liked that chronicle chronology there. Well, I think those when you only have four returning players they really need to be people who you would recognize. And so I think that this group afford totally makes sense from that perspective. All right. Speaking of returning players. Let's move into this next superlative most likely to work against a returning player. We talked a bit about some people that might fall under their wing but much rarer among them are the contestants who say screw these turning players. I'm not with you. I'm against you. We oughta who among these new players, or I guess you could put a returning player as well is most likely to to turn against the returning players as a self hating returning player that could very easily be someone like David right to be totally say that I actually had Ron Clark because he same say, I think he even said he wanted to bring a returning players to make them the target as one of the people that are things that he would bring to the island. There's no room in the Ron Clark academy for attorney players. For me. It was thought of like g again like you said Paul like of thority, and I believe he's older than all of the returning players. I mean when you're older than David, but I feel like he could be in a situation where he's like, I'm not gonna let these people Leamy around and tell me what to do, you know, I I made a name for myself in my own style of leadership. I'm going to show them what I'm capable of. And he'll get in a lot of hot water as a result. Now, he does have as central twenty five to greet visitors and make them feel welcome. Stabbed them in the back. Right. Was the second the closet underneath that. Yeah. Sorry. That one didn't go with Ron Clark. Healy who's on top of my list. What was someone? We haven't talked about yet, which is the war dog. And the reason with him is because odyssey he talks a lot. And so it was like I got I got the gist of him. But there was some things that I really like that he said that kind of showed like a larger understanding of the game one of them being like I really liked what he had to say about. Whether he wanted to be a legend or a winner, and that Hugh much be a winner. So that kinda shows that he's not necessarily worried about like learning reputation for taking out a fan favorite that. He's he's doesn't care about that. Eventually really to understanding of like if you win Lee gave you deserve to win. You know, it's not about the audience. It's more about the people you're playing with. So that kinda lead me to say that I could see him going head to head with a with one of these returning players. Yeah. I get to do the board. Doug is super interesting to me. I really can't get a grasp on his personality because I mean, maybe like you says it's the optics of everything, but he really has that particular Tony looking like persona like I'm gonna play up. The gesture and not really look for idols the first couple of days. It's like I dunno. Tony had his own gesture like qualities whether intentional or unintentional. It's still kind of harkening back to that original source and also people are going to assume you're looking for idols because you're comparable to Tony. Why not look for idols? You know, you're you're already being labeled with that. You might as well, you know, a double down on actually start looking for some of that could save you. Yes. But he brings a certain sex appeal that men his age haven't had for over a decade or most have never had on why that was his description of why he'll be the sole survivor. He was really interesting to me because I think yes. Because of the optics I had a certain view of him while I was watching is video with Orissa. But then when I was listening to him with Josh I was just thinking God, this guy is so intense. I don't know how that's gonna work out on the island. But I could see him definitely trying to play aggressively and target some of these returning players. Yeah. I mean, he also has had a super story life. His life story is extremely captivating. Maybe he should get Matthew Perry store and poor talk movie as well between like joining the army and then going to play poker full time in Vegas for two years. Now, he's in law school like he's living extremely story life and only thirty eight years of age, and I wonder if that's giving him a certain confidence about himself that he will bring into his tribe where even again, if people have a wealth of experience in survivor, I think has a wealth of life experience that might him sort of elevated status and gonna make an interesting character. Right. Let's move on here in honor of the great Christian hubadoo, the most likely to talk someone to death in a challenge. Superlative whole who do you have? I wanna stick with the word on this just simply because his interviews were long videos were long, and he kinda just had a way of the way he talks narration and giving extra details. I've thought maybe when f first, but honesty, like hers, I kinda short and terse like it was kind of like just a burst of energy Shanna stops talking in weights prompted again, whereas Wardag was the one most likely to carry on an extended conversation without being stops. So I said Rick because he's a news anchor. So his job is literally having to talk. But now that I realize that you have to be brief, I guess as a news anchor. You don't spend a lot of time punting about extra things. So maybe it could be Gavin. Because maybe also he won't hear when other people are giving him social cues that it's no longer his time to talk about whatever specific topic. It isn't a hill. Just keep going. Let me talk to you about the third date with my wife. Oh, it was glorious. The sun was shining. It was April twenty third. It was the best date. So I went with I think the one player left who we haven't talked about yet. I had David has an option there just as he does. Maybe it's just the Christian comparison. But he could definitely talk up a storm. I went with Victoria, because Victoria is someone who is extremely complex just between like, you know, she's a waitress, but she was the valedictorian of her college. And she she probably is the most prepare the stone cold opposite of someone like, Eric. I didn't really need to prepare much G like studied all this stuff. She read through mountains various journals as like how much dietary what a diet should go on before going onto survivor. I feel like she just has a lot of knowledge in that big old red headed brain. She's just ready to let spill out in any point in time to drive someone to drop off during an endurance challenge. Yes. She always talks about doing her homework. So she could just, you know, recite some of her homework, and I'm sure that would last very long time. I could I definitely see Victoria doing that. Yeah. I really like to toria. I think I think like you said she's very complex with the things that she talks about and that she sees well prepared, but for me, just like the good looking at her and watch the video she seems way younger than she actually is like when I look at her, and when I hear talk I would not have been shocked. She's like nineteen like she's like really young contestant. So wonder if that's gonna play a factor, but I don't really have anything negative to say about her. I hope for family. Visit is her Guinea pig peeve. Just to see what that would have been like. Oh, yes. Her pets. He. Get it. That's why listen woman who loves word play is someone going to love the survivor contestant. So I cannot malign her too much. She says he can eat pig named scam who is her inspiration. Poor poor peeve in the blunt end of the stance. I got another favorite child. But I do have a favorite Guinea pig. It's sick. Oh. His name was stick scam. Oh, the why substan-? Why substan- we can get her NEW GUINEA pig? We've named anything yet. We have to pronounce it. Gavin like way. All right. Let's talk about our superlative here the jacket eight award or most likely to leave someone in the cold after getting voted out in the nine someone that nice warm piece of clothing that they have been seeking or quite some time Liana who's your pick. No. I said Aurora. She's a lawyer like nothing else needs that. I did not sign. Take the jacket ago. Did you sign a pre NUP? Nope. Rura? I like I like a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Same. I wrote down. I also went with war dog. I feel like we're dog could be somebody like I served in the army with less you'd be fine. And then just walk off. I said, maybe if she gets like, you know, kind of freaks out like she did on her at her trader, but I like the violent erotic. Let's see if there's anything in the Ron Clark rules about possessions here. Let's see history really do with the classroom lost and found sear. If you do not win do not brag. If you lose do not show anger. So that that does kind of fall into that do not. In line lose do not hoard jackets. I I don't know if that the seer after dining in the cafeteria or elsewhere be responsible for your trash. I'm not saying the explicit here about about coats. Maybe I'll have some extra rules after he finishes planks survive. Survivor appendix all the rules now at back. Oh, so so we basically reviewed the cast through our superlatives. We'll check back at the end of the see how correct or most likely. Incorrect we were about all these. But it's a nice way to sort of life. Nice lenses to view these eighteen people through Liana. What have you brought to the table for us to talk about? Yeah. So we got to talk about the cast. I actually want to talk about the format because I love me, some logistics. And so I just want to is that the name of Victoria's Guinea pig, right? Legit, logistics. Yes. Logistics sticks. Ricks sticks. Mill swamp swamp. Meet swap meet. Okay, I digress. Anyway. So I wanted to hear your the two of your thoughts about how the island of extinction, which I actually wrote on my notes is extension because that's kind of how it works. I suppose extends people's games. Just because I started thinking about are we gonna see psychological warfare like was sort of teas or we're going to see people quit. How many people are gonna live out there? Are they going to get any food? We're going to get any shelter. What is going to happen to these people that are just sort of neglected out on this island of extension? So in terms of a lot of questions, they're still today. Sorry, this clincial. She's responding with a question. I'll maybe I'll answer with another question in terminus shelter thing. I mean, all we saw was that boat with sale something makes me believe that will have to find their own shelter. And maybe in terms of food. It's like the exile thing where they're given like a machete and pot not the ghost island actually giving more rice and they do back at their own camp. But I feel like they are purposely making things scanned because they're going to try to push people to quit as much as possible. They want to avoid the doomsday scenario of eighteen people still alive in the finale. So I think the really going to try to I don't mean like pulling out a rain machine to just constantly dump on them every day all in. But I feel like really limiting them on supplies even more than they have in recent seasons would be a way to do. So. Okay. Yeah. I guess I could see that. I I okay. My ritual was well, of course, they're not gonna give them any food. They're just going to have to scavenge for coconuts or whatever then they really gonna let them out there with no food. I would just feel bad. Yeah. I think it's going to be I think like them shy. In exile, exile. And they would spell things a little bit more for us about how things worked with for Dench. Disres-? Kind of some unspoken things we never really got the logistical side of it. So I think as long as they stay on the side of the intrigue of the twists, which I think is really a really funny DEA. I think if even though you're a fan of the logistics Leon, I think if we kind of steer away from from defining the logistics of it, I think that's what's gonna keep intrigue of this twist. That's true. So I guess it's the surprise of what could potentially be happening next. I think what they should do is. Okay. Sure, they're gonna try to starve him out right to have them quits. Don't of that doomsday scenario or they could start to just psychologically mess with them. So even if they're not for touring each other, maybe survivor could portrait them a little bit with psychological warfare warfare of at all. I think that I really like that because I've been watching ex on the beach, and they have this thing called the shack of secrets where. He really try to just stir the pot a bit by you know, if there's one couple that's really feeling each other out of the bring in like text messages at the guy has exchanged with his booty. Call back home, you know, and I I don't know what necessarily want to make a lot of home wrecking situations. But I do wonder if production could bring in some certain elements each of these people's lives and just sprinkle them throughout little pre males to really a mess with their moves a bit. Yeah. This is like what big brother eight. We're gonna have some people come back in. Okay, or you can put like taymor Braxton out there on the island with them. And then see how it goes and Lolo Jones. Then I think we're really in for a very fun twist. I like that. I mean, I don't know how good they would be for this. Maybe unless you give them you give them unlimited food, and they have to eat food in front of them. And then also degrade them while they're eating. Yes. Exactly. I think that's key. Yeah. All right. Well, I guess fine. I'll just have to live with the mystery of of the island of extension, and we'll see how it goes. But what I wanna do before move onto our next thing is to. To talk about some some fan levels that were discussed on these survivor Facebook page, so we aren't gonna guess casual corner where we go to the survivor Facebook page. I full some comments that people have left. There was one comment in particular that stood out, and it made me think of how so many people in their bios or in their interviews talk about being a fan. So I wanted to read to you some of the levels of fandom, according to this person on Facebook. Okay. So levels zero people who say what that show still on. So like, Eric, for example, who potentially be someone who falls under that family them. Level. One people who watch when the show is on TV to kill time. They don't watch the show consistently survivors, not a part of their life. Level co-worker. Yes. Thank you. Okay. So yes, Paul's PO worker level one level two people who watch this show every season. However, they would not be able to name any of the players like Eric. So maybe calls into this. I and my mom. And the carpal her car pool. My mom and the carpool bitches. Yes. Yes. Okay. Level three people who watch the show consistently. They're able to remember players names placement. And major events in the show. This is where I feel like the majority of people read. Wow, that's pretty low. Yes. So this is where I well. There's only five levels open the ruling ten three. So I feel like this is where most of the people that call themselves big fans of the show. I think sort of fall under my wrong. I would think so I mean, it's interesting when they talked about favorite seasons. I think only one it was Kelly Wentworth named their favorites season was season twenty was before season twenty. So I mean, it is very, you know, very heavily weighted towards the most recent seasons. But it does feel like everyone does have a pretty good grasp as to survivor history. There were some season names that were dropped. There were some player names that were dropped from back in the day. It seems like people were saying that they watch from the beginning. So that'll feels very level three to meet and have a level for people who watch the show. Religiously a rewatch the rea- watch or watch the show read articles listen to podcasts and analyze the players based on the moves that they make. Do you think we have anybody who really falls under level for I? Chris, Chris, Chris. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think Chris even said in his Orissa interview, I fell asleep podcasts at night, I watch as much as possible. So I don't know how much of it was spurred along with the fact that he was going out to play survivor, but I guess he's just sort of key boosted himself up into a level of force that. Okay. All right. So let's see if we have anybody who's think falls under this last category level, God like old people who think this is a welfare system and go to the survivor Facebook group to complain about all the shows being unfair for bringing back returning players that took their chances away from playing. A left turn. Those like way one. Especially because it's like, oh, this'll be really good. I could use this to think about okay, where do we think people fit in? And then this last sorry what? I just love it. This person was slowly turning a mirror, and the final level was just facing it back out to the page. Like what you're doing right now. Take a hard. Look at yourself to reflective for me. I can't handle this. Wow. And very very light casting. I mean, really, you know, rolling with a wide brush to say that only people come to complain are all old people who got the missed out on the chance to come onto the show because they feel returning players their own. Yeah. I don't think that's really a thing that much. Yeah. That was very bizarre. Okay. So anyway, now, let's talk about the old people who think this is a welfare system to go on survivor. So let's get into Casuals corner. So now that we've had that little fun bit of awkwardness. Let's talk about some other awkward comments that were made if I've Casuals on the survivor age. So these first questions are all about comments about of titular player. So this first question this is for Paul. And so the way that this game is going to work is I have written one comment, and I pulled re from the Facebook page, so it is job to try to guess, which comment I wrote the other. Three were actual comments on the survivor page. So these comments are all about Dan, Wardag, Sylvia. A he swims like an infant. Be his head is so shiny. They could make fire by reflecting the sun off of it. The why is he flexing? He's built like a fifteen year old. Okay. Or d like the male version of Shambo? I am row digit. I think what about the shiny head. Yes. That is correct. That's tried for so long to come over the joke about judges wigs because for some reason very fixated on the concept of him wearing a judge's wig. Because he's a lawyer Eric was school needless to say that didn't pan out. So I can't that crappy. If I win do not break. So I'm trying to keep it. I'm very intrigued as to why who is C hanging out with in terms of fifteen year olds to say that he's built like one of them to what's no. 'cause I really look at him. Because I don't remember him looking like if year old I teach a lot of fifteen year olds do not look like this guy. Let me tell you that. The budget war was not what my German to looks like do. They look like male versions of Shamba, though. Also negative. Yeah. What what wars the sham broke compares the hair. Or the lack thereof. I actually couldn't believe it when I found that comment. Oh my gosh. I don't have to go very far for shampoo on it. Well, we'll have to see if his tribe gets chickens. How much will try to talk with them? If the war dog will be able to communicate with chickens, right? Maybe he'll have a dream while see okay mic. This next question is for you. So these were all comments about Aurora. So she must be from New York City with a big mouth like that be. I resent. I thought you'd like that one bee is she from Disney see is she from the wizard of Oz. The I went to her Facebook page and found that I appreciated several of her means. That's why all support her memes matter. I want maims matter to be next to the cross stitch of what was it. The failure is the opposite of perfect. I want memes matter. That's how I wanna live my life now. Okay. So we have is she from New York is she from dizzy she from the wizard of is. And means matter I feel like you your spirit animal is in D. But that makes me think you actually did it right? It for me, it's between wizard of Oz and Disney she is from Orlando. So I guess that would warrant the Disney comedy. I don't know why some with things she's from the wizard of Oz. And if so what character she is somebody go with C. That's correct. Yes. That was the one that I wrote. Okay, Paul this next question is for you. These were all comments about Joe is he knew wizard of us. It the bring back chicken, George. His being voted out statement was the best in all of survivor. See I can't believe it's not butter. See I it's not butter. Or d I must ask him a question. But I'll shave it for later. You made up the chicken, George one. Now once real. I think it's supposed to be chicken Morris. Put it out the best in all of survivor. Okay. Well, it's always fake. I I always remember those halcyon days where captain fart voted help survivor and gave the best final words. The one. I wrote was I must ask him a question. But I'll shave it for later saw. Once. Road. I can't believe it's not. Obviously as demonstrated by my inability to read that answer, I was dying reading that one. It was was on text. If it's not butter does that mean, he's more Joe Rin NIA? Wrap man man, new Jurain. Nope. I'm just gonna stop that the one I did right before before. I thought of moustache question was I would let Joe sire all of my beautiful moustachioed babies because I just liked the phrase moustachioed babies, but I thought that that might be too obvious. Okay mic. This next question is for you. These are comments about Ozzie who I don't know if we know on this season. But second muss sick. And most likely to win his way back into the game. Yes. Agreed. So okay. Hey, Ozzy is never gonna win dot dot dot stop bringing him back. Not. Be I watch every season of survivor as long as Ozzy, isn't it? See excited to see Ozzy make fake idols chopstick emoji chops to KOMO de chopstick emoji d love Ozzie. And Joe but sorry there no-balls and rob. Just just just like just clarify here. At least four people make reference to a person who's not on the season of survivor and just bring it into the conversation. I love it. I love it. And love the you know, what I wanna make it clear that I don't ever wanna make fun of the Casuals. Like, I appreciate every single thing. They are very important part of this band yet. They do say ridiculous things. And they do bring me joy the fact that there are three of them who thought that is he was coming back into the season. Really just brings me joy. Okay. So I know d- was there. No boston. Rob see was chopstick emoji. What were the first to again? Hey, Ozzy is never going to win dot dot stop bringing him back and be I could watch every season of survivor as long as Ozzy, isn't it? We'll as sounds like it's in that God tier level of the person who's very bitter about maybe Ozzie taking their seventy five year old spot on the season of survivor, even though again, he's not going to say be it was actually see excited to see Ozzy make big idols chopstick emoji budget chopstick Mudgee that was the one that I wrote. But yeah, I actually don't know the person who answered I could watch every season of survivor as long as is in it, perhaps they're not watching this season. Because it's not in it. I don't know set them declaring that they're basically boycotting survivor until Ozzie comes back how possibly this is their passive resistance. Protests of not watching survivor. Okay. This next question is for you, so survivor updated their profile picture on Facebook with the new logo of the island of extinction or of extinction and quality was not great on that picture. And for some reason the Casuals really latched onto how crappy that picture was. These are comments about that picture quality of this logo is on the edge of extinction. Someone help someone with that petty. Be I can't wait for the high quality Jay peg logo. See you need to give your graphics department. A raise dot dot dot or som glasses or d-. I'm really hoping the quality of this photo is Representative of quality of this season. Lots of like claw, really hard on the Jay. You know, what I think the one that sticks out because it just was like two it was just so like well put was at first one and that sticks out. So I guess that one that is correct. And that is the one that I read the rest of the rest were highest funny and not as not as crisp you think of go comment that one actually obviously, I couldn't do it before it was an actual subtle enough. Leave is logos. On honor of this cast the most subtle shade towards the logo exactly. All right, Mike, this next question is for you. So every single episode. There are always gesture for the new versions of survivor that should be played. These are some examples of comments from the preseason. So. Do the Casuals want to see Democrats versus Republicans versus liberals. Be way. Why is that like these like twizzlers versus red vines versus urging a little redundant. They're like, wait. So not versus conservatives or like, do you? Okay. All right. The vegans vs meters versus bluetooth free. See cannabis players versus pharmaceuticals. Or are the paddocks of people who are more resilient people who are the week. I don't know. But I like that they specify cannabis players versus just pharmaceutical. Like, can you imagine you like? Yeah. Me and Ambien over here. Really good at it. Or D another Cook Islands. So would just put another coach islets. Yes. Coming up with these for the season. I know they should really tap into them. Instead. See sounds too ridiculous to not be true. A sounds too redundant to not be true. So we have what we have. What were being the again be is vegans vs meters? Versus gluten free and D is just another Cook Islands. You say d- d another Cook Islands. I oh that was your answer. No, sorry wrong. Tracy so much. My when you lose do not show anger. Also, also ROY do not show disrespect with gestures. I can't see you. But that could have been a middle finger. Is that because you're not looking at me. So this is not a video call. But sure. Unfortunately, no, Mike. I misheard you. I wrote vegans versus meters versus pollutant free. I was so close. Yes. Well, I was hoping hoping that someone didn't actually suggest another time. And unfortunately that was suggested in imprint ac- survive a race bore. Yes. Great quick, right. Like, thanks. Okay. So Paul you have two points. Mike you have one. And we're going to get to our final question each. So Paul, this is just hope ary. Since they're just bringing people back in. I want Debbie and Natalie back there like mental handy's to the show dot LOL. The so excited hashtag survivor had shocked tribal council. Hashtag couple bonding time. How shock it's our thing. Hash of the glunz. Months? I don't know if that's are. They. Most likely to get a hashtag this season. And there aren't even on the show. Yeah. But if that is a story, it's a very dark turn. All right, C, get the VCR ready space exploration point exclamation point. Exclamation point. Or d Russell hand was in Australia last year. It's hard. But the pope are- because it's just all over the place. I'm gonna say see you made up. That one was real. Which I was very shocked seat. No, I wrote div Russell was in Australia last year. All right. Well, you didn't even write that. He was on a trillion survivor. You just wrote that he was in interest here. Yeah. Yeah. He was the air field. Trout, everyone his his hat. His head was at least it made the reunion his hat on the chairman reunion show. So good. All right, Mike. This is your phone question. Also potpourri. Hey, happy survivor is back survivor in man with a plan are my two favorite shows. I would love to see Kevin LeBlanc on survivor. Right. Well, maybe it's not your favorite show. You don't remember the name of the actor place? This believed role. It can be Matthew Perry next time. Okay. B past two seasons. Winners have been terrific. Very happy Davey one. When does the season start? Oh, boy, what a couple of things to tell you, sir. Madam c I'm so excited for this. It's all my favorite things about survivor in one season. And that was an in all cats if you couldn't guess and d-, oh my hat. Joe is back. Has oh my hat. Joe is back. Sort of a rhyme whom I had never heard that. Oh, my hat. Joe is back. Boy. All right. I wanna say in all caps you wrote? No. That was a real one. I wrote a the Kevin LeBlanc on survivor joke, which originally was not intended to be a joke. But I could not remember Matt LeBlanc his name. So I kept it. Oh, my hat. I can't believe I lost. All my gosh. Oh, my hat became my new favorite phrase. It's like, oh my hat. I can't believe it's not butter. Okay. Well, congratulations, Paul. You have one our very first casual corner of the season. Congratulations. Thank you. I'm not bragging and not asking for a ward. And I am not looking you looking at you at all I'm going to be just the rule breaker in class and break all of these. I'm just going to jump around on my desk. Scream at everybody any to balance this out. I will say one thing that stood out to me was that Casuals did not like Joe's moustache. So if we're gonna take solace in anything, I think that that is something that everyone can agree upon. All right. So I know pull you don't wanna speak too much about the logistics of edge of extinction doing finish off on a little bit of a game slash draft around extinction island. Look, no matter what the structure is at some point people are going to quit the game while being on extinction island. What I figured we would do is each going to draft two contestants from this season. Who we think will end up quitting the game or one reason or another, and hopefully, none of them do hopefully, they all tough it out there and end up surviving to challenge that they eventually win or lose. But I think looking at this cast given the theme and given a lot of them talking about the tenacity of it all I thought we could go around the horn and each pick will go one one one. And then we'll go one one one again, we'll each pick two people and see if they end up raising the flag when it comes to extinction island Liana. Let's start with you who is your first pick of someone if it was most likely to leave the game. I hope I'm wrong about this. But my first pick is going to be windy, and the reason why reason why I'm picking her is because she is somebody who is really intense, and when you're really intense, you can have really high intensity, and you have really low intensity. And I think she somebody who gets the out there really defeated and ends up deciding to quit the island of fiction. All what about you? That was mine I was going to take. So instead, please give me. I will take Julie got a lot of podcasting to do. Yeah. Yeah. I'll take Julie. Okay. I'm I'm gonna go with Ron Clark. Why not he's he's tell at the top with this podcast. I feel like Ron Kuby somewhere. If he's outwitted I feel like with a lot of these people, especially if they end up on extinction with someone like Joe or Kelly. They might be like, well, we don't stand a chance why sort of waste our time here, and I feel like Ron could be somebody be like gone my survivor experience. You know, I'm ready to sort of pick up my supplies and go back to the classroom. Mike you just quoted essential number fifty two from your mistakes and move on. I didn't even realize I've been sept- it the book fully over the course of this podcast. It also is rule. Fifty four is carpet diem. So I feel like you can make it fit either way you want. Sees the quitting the island of extinction. I suppose sure. I guess we can go one. We'll go snake just for the heck of it. I'll make my second pick here. I hope this is not true. I'm gonna say Aurora because while Aurora did say she's able to divorce her emotions from her line of work. She just say, I'm not completely heartless. I do have some things that trigger me. I feel like she could be someone who just happens to, you know, end up in a couple of rough night's not just send her in a tailspin that lends her lens to her pulling herself from the gate. I could see that. All right all second pick for you. I guess I'll take Lauren. I think she's a strong athlete and stuff. But just. Yeah. Maybe she gets up early and then just too much for her. She needs to get back and talk about how she just graduated as collegiate athlete. So I'll take Loret a graduation party to go to exactly a lot of them. Okay. I think for my last pick. I'm going to go with. Rap. Okay. I'm gonna go with three go three because somebody who got kicked out of a gym. Maybe she's gonna get kicked off the edge of extinction as well, especially because you so that's true issue to scream at somebody for a I don't know not losing enough weight win. Dr Joe ways her in before sending her on to extinction island guy, and that would be so perfect. She comes back upon Rosa. And he's like, so, you know, you lost five pounds. And that we get a whole recreation of what happened. I would be here for it. Yes. Lease. So we shall see ended up picking about a third of the cast. We'll see exactly what happens as Paul says a lot of this is up in the air. But those another nice little landmark that we can revisit upon examining this at the end of these fourteen episodes to finish things off. We usually on the BNB do a question of the week where we ask a question to the audience, and you guys send us your responses between this podcast and the next one. And we'll answer them on the air next week giving our answers as well of the question for this preseason in honor of episode one. So Dan came in with the nickname of the war dog, which is something that I think he's sort of copied from his platoon days, but he sort of has been able to mold into his life. So if you out there, we're playing survivor, what self-appointed nickname, would you give your self when entering the game? This could be something that. Emigrates your opponents. It could be something to cuddle up to your opponents. Whatever sort of impression you want to put out there. What would be the nickname that? You would give yourself. You have a bunch of ways to reach out to us with this information. You can always tweet us using the hash tag, RH AMP. The and beat the letter the letter N the letter B, you always Email it to us at our H B and B A G mail dot com. You can post it on Facebook on read it on the page on rob has a website dot com. You have a myriad of ways for us to to Chow down on that content, and we will answer your nicknames and re through them next week. I'm very excited to bring you the first guest episode one of extinction. The great Josh Wigley is going to be joining the BNB for the first time to break down the premiere of extinction. You've got to be out on set as we alluded to previously with first one out. So I'm sure he'll provide some the likable tidbits as we talk through some of his experience there. I'm sure the unorthodox mater in which the premier carried out. I'm sure much much more. So be sure to send us all that. We'll be able to talk through that with Josh. And assuming maybe along the way we'll talk through some fun wand off heretics, I feel like reams name himmy thrown into a lot of a lot of song. It's like the new Rourke, but the finish things off. Why don't we go around the horn? If you guys want to give your social media handles. If you wanna if anyone else wants to check out what these lovely people are talking about during the survivor season. No. So what you might be working on in the podcasts at large upholster with you. Sure, you can find me on Twitter at Paul Austin. And we'll see how active on Twitter kind of quiet last year last season. So we'll see if these this cast has me talking more than usual. You just every week. A random run or rule, and we'll see if it applies. It be the new David Bloomberg rules. Yeah. Like teaching and stuff. Like we had kind of like I didn't do this much for teachers use these essentials. It was broken. There was like an essential the week that you work on. So I think we can definitely find which is sensual. You know, Ron Clark academy rule was followed. Or maybe not followed every episode of survivor. Yeah. What about scrap our predictions, and instead will pick the rule that most likely applies the week with the scrap the whole segment, but we've predicted rule head of time. Oh, okay. So we pick the rule, and then we have to somehow make it work. No. This is terrible ideas. Okay. I'm on social media at Liana Boris L at abo R A S. Of course, I'm so excited to be back with Mike to do with BNB or this season of survivor of we are also doing rupaul robberies coverage along with Brett welcome aunt so talking about all sorts of season four which is going to be wrapping up this week. But then no rest for the wicked. We have one week off. And then we get back into repulsive greats with season eleven so it's a lot. But it's fun still. I'm pretty sure. No, no. That's a stock owes and drum talking, but I very much love it. And then wrapped up all the stuff for. The big brother one of the other shows that are happening, and then should hopefully be back to you brother candidate coverage as well. Fantastic. You can always follow me at a Mike bloom type as we mentioned. We'll be covering Rupe Paul's drag race also covering hop. Shift Kentucky with a great group of people including next week's guest. Josh by glory as we head into the final bend of this horse race that has been this season. I have also formally joined these Star Trek discovery podcast crew over on post show. Recaps covering that weekly. Now with Jessica lease my weekly coverage of discovery on Hollywood reporter, you can go to T H, R dot com slash Star Trek discovery. If you want to check that out I'm doing I'm having a lot of fun with that speaking of writing, I know that RAV announced this on another podcast, but I will say here, there's no official exit press for survivor edge of extinction. I'll see if maybe I can write up a few things during the season that are a bit more miscellaneous and some other people might be aiming to do some more unconventional interviews. But those that are looking for a exit present in. Tell every week, unfortunately, due to the format of the extinction island. You will not be getting it over at this time. It's being released. I'm sure I'll have exit interviews released with all the finalists of from celebrity big brother that allow Surya's cast. And I'm sure more stuff to come as well. So be sure to check all of that out. That's going to do it for a preseason podcast for edge of extinction. I'm even more pumped about this cast and this season getting to talk about it with two of you at least becoming more educated about the Ron Clark book of rules. I we'll see if we can have that memorized by the time this season finishes. A thank you so much to will from America or theme song, Scott saint-pierre for entering all this behind the scenes Paul looking forward to working with you more behind the scenes as the season progresses as well. Let us know your thoughts again hashtag RHA NB for answer. The question of the week as well. As your thoughts about how the heck we're going to do these predictions. We'll be back next week with Josh Brig lifter talk about the premiere of season thirty. Eight can't wait so excited to be back above for now. Will check you out at your next day. From gay bright, y'all. Off sounds. The R H Payton, he Ambi. Right. Awesome school show. You. The our ace. Three.

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Episode 336: The West Memphis Three Part II - The Confession of Jessie Misskelley

Last Podcast on the Left

1:50:27 hr | 2 years ago

Episode 336: The West Memphis Three Part II - The Confession of Jessie Misskelley

"Hey, there Ben Kissel here for last podcast network. I wanna tell you about my show Abe Lincoln's top at for more than nine years Marcus. And I have strived to present you with the most accurate and honest political podcast out there in these turbulent times, it's our intention to unite the country with impassioned debate. The reaches out to the rational Americans who find their voices more muffled every day every week I use my political science background. My experience running for office along with my lifelong passion to stand up for the downtrodden. The wrongfully accused in the invisible man and woman to bring you news like you haven't heard before. Let's face it, traditional news, his failed us. We promised to always tell you the truth, the best we see it, and I personally guarantee to not be swayed by hyper partisanship, but be guided by facts to listen, search Ebeling to stop on any podcast platform or go to last podcast network dot com and find it under shows, HALE yourselves everyone. Now back. The last podcast on the left. There's no place to escape to this is the loss on the left. Cannibalism started. No. Don't mind my oh, you the sheriff of west Memphis. What? Yeah. No, my name is collectors. My play evil steel drum for sisters of mercy. I've come to golf escape dose, three boys from that jail shadow monsters. Go. Right. Welcome to the moon creatures of the night. Go, no, just like five, two hours with sister of mercies fucking merch on the golf community did not save them. Honestly, these vampires to come, get them out was Peter steel. That's what I wanted to. This is the last podcast on the left. I am Ben Kissel with Marcus parks. How's your brain Marcus means. All right. Okay. Henry's browse ski, coming off of his birthday party. How you doing buddy? Wait. Now your birthday party coming off of your bachelor party. I'm sorry. Yeah, buddy. I tell you what I'm top shape. I tell you. I definitely could be openly bleeding right now. I did fall down very good bit of a fall down last night. I had a lot. You know what it is about Tiki drinks. They make. They make your knees loose about the earth, Sal. I don't know what it is. Whatever makes blue or vibrantly. Yellow makes me not be able to walk. Yeah, I think it's the liquor. Oh, well, we have very sobering episode, criminal Justice system. We are on sober. We are out to part two of the west Memphis, three. Let's jump right in. So when we last left, the three, the west Memphis, police department were edging closer and closer towards blaming Jason Baldwin and Damien Echols for the murders of Christopher Byers Stevie branch and Michael Moore. But at that point, the police had nothing more than the suspicious accusations of their local witch, hunter and positive polygraph test from a hack, whoa, Marcus. I mean, what else d- need got, they've got a hunch and there's a witch, hunter, so this this is perfect Justice. I'm not a judge and I look at them. Squiggly lines the squiggly, or they get the more boys. I know you have their blood on your hands. Spirit is all that changed when a woman named Vicky. Hutchison came onto the scene, Vicky, Vicky hutcherson shows, and it's the truth is that if if my waitress doesn't have a full row of meth teeth, not at a diner, right guy, Fieri is knocking to enjoy that experience without somebody who's who's teeth look like the skyline. I think it's Gotham city apocalypse guy for yet. He, of course, it's how you pronounce the name labor town. And then I. Mary, not even rehashing. We're not rehashing it all. Moving on moving on, I will say they'll meth people who do they make the best pancakes because they also have to eat them. Got to be soft. Vicky was a thirty two year old local waitress who got called into the west Memphis police department on suspicion of fraud the day after the murders, and she just happened to bring along her eight-year-old son, Aaron, which the cop did notice as he did say specifically, seemed inappropriate at the time to bring your son to a police interview, but I'm not a babysitter on. I don't know. Yeah, you can't find a sitter. You gotta do it. I understand. She's a struggling waitress. See, Aaron was a friend of the three murdered boys, and he told his mother that he'd seen a black man and a maroon car picked the three boys up after school on the day they disappeared. And now this was definitely ally as the kids were last seen hours after that. But in this Aaron dipped his first toe into being a pivotal role in the police investigation concerning the child murders at Robin Hood hills, you way Kissel there will be a trial one day when the night we'll have to prove your love of Bud Light lime, and it will be. Hinges like like you are actually going to jail, but the Bud Light line will have to be your alibi like you will have to that. You will have to have been seen with the Bud Light lime some bar summer to keep you from being guilty, get a little kid to help us, and he'd be like, did see the man with the big green drink hanging outside the Bonn. He was yelling about how not fair that he's tall. Because you've got the kid. That might be true might be yelling all the time. Nonetheless. It is interesting racial profiling ingrained in this child at such a young age at fascinated. Now it was extremely common during the satanic panic of the late eighties and early nineties for the authorities to believe the outlandish claims of children when it came to a resting and convicting so-called devil worshippers how many seriously, Salem, witch trailed the same thing, how many people have kids killed? It's just seems like out of the mouths of babes comes a lot of badges. Digits convictions. These children are not to be trusted can't, but I do get it, but we want to believe the kids when they say something bad happens. Yes, but kids also have wonderful imaginations. And when it starts casting, Bill Clinton in the role of head wizard of the Satan Colt and then spider man was there. And all of a sudden it turns into an Elsa gate video scrip, but you're in the middle of it and it was like over hersal for it. You maybe wanna like look into the claim as they should be the cornerstone of your case three years before the child murders, Robin Hood hills, eight childcare workers employed at McMartin preschool in Manhattan Beach. California were charged with three hundred twenty one counts of abuse against children based movie accusation that the adults were engaged in what was known as satanic ritual abuse. Now, even though murders were definitely a part of the satanic panic, accusations of satanic ritual abuse for at the forefront of the. Hysteria and resulted in dozens of arrests convictions and ruined lives based on the bizarre testimonies of children and all fit bizarrely into a subtle version of the government's constant war against the psychic awakening of the people of the United States navy. The world which I do believe is true, dropping the seeds into the fear of ritual behavior. The idea of the fear of the satanic group because church of Satan was delightfully innocent. All we did was have a good time. We enjoyed San Francisco. We'd like women that consented to be nude furniture. We were say, eight years old at this time. I'm not saying they should be there for that. It should be eighteen plots behind this is my visit should be strip club rules for Satan event. But I'm saying for for these, the idea that the prosecuting people on just he's fanciful tale and built up fear of satanic groups in a part of it, it's a weird subtle way what it does, denounce the idea of and belief in anything outside of this universe and it plays into the controlling hands of the government. How many drinks did you have last night. Hawaiian are you today. I'm set. I'm sitting into chair, very good for the Deger industry are dabbling creating daggers. This was a prime time for your business. Decorative knives were doing with the people who were being prosecuted here. They were not satanists. They were not any sort of. They weren't engaged in any sort of ritualistic behavior whatsoever. They were regular folk, but they still got swept up in this. Some of the weirder claims made just in the McMartin preschool trial included a series of underground tunnels built underneath the school to transport children. Kids being flushed down toilets over and over again before being cleaned up and presented to the parents and visits from punky Brewster and Mr. t. to keep the kids quiet and happy. That's great casting. Honestly, if you wanna make a bunch of kids happy you bring Mr. t. and there because what was his saying? I can't believe the fool, pity the fool that is not entertained by Mr. t. o. f.. Absolutely. Very hallucinogenic visualizations. It's fear. It does remind you sort of the high strangeness of ailing objections, which is why within the dolts context, it makes a little bit more sense of it being like wildly outlandish. When the child does sound like a light while we can all Yuk it up about this shit from decades away. Just like with the west Memphis, three. This shit was taken with deadly seriousness at the time and we cannot stress that enough. How do you even flush a child on a toilet that UNMIK toilets. What are those happening toilet beam? Restaurants where it's fun. Yeah, that's pretty pretty cool. It's so fantastic adults like, yeah, they're flush them, unflushed him. I mean, what horrible day to be a plumber? Yeah. I mean, it's that same type of shit with like pizza gay, where all the kids were saying that they were all molested in the basement of comet pizza, and there was no basement and comet pizza, and then they'll come out and say something like, well, they ended up, you know, they actually built the the basement out like they completely removed the basement when they found out that people are going to become looking for them, which would also be the same things. McMartin preschool remove the gigantic toilet before the authorities got there. Of course, anyone out there knows where this gigantic toilet is. I really could use it you one of those fund poop emoji costumes on you. This is the bachelor party we do. We re do it. Fill slots. Your party is sort of surrounding my humiliation. They, they use the same tactic to say that it's real to also denounce what people say about Elian abduction or say anything else where they say a part of it is the outlandish nature of the claims right? Is that you can believe in it because the kids were so traumatized by the memory that kind of destroyed their idea of reality, which then well, now we've just destroyed the idea of whatever is normal truth, like bottom level facts. And now anything can be shoved in the sewage goes one eighty because it's so extreme. There's no way they made it up exactly. And that sort of thinking that it's so extreme that there's no way they made it up that actually follows in the west Memphis, three case a couple more examples of satanic ritual abuse because I think it's important to really drive home how widespread this stuff was in Bakersfield. California investigators convinced to kids that their parents have molested them and sacrificed babies in their basement. Based on those testimonies, the parents got to. Hundred and forty years in prison and served twelve of those years before being exonerated after their children recanted. But now that they can about it, maybe they didn't do. It was after the kids were adults, and they started thinking back on it because they've been told for so long by people that they were told to trust. They were told to trust the police officers. They've been told so long that this was true. And then finally, they recanted. They're like, actually, we don't remember any of that and there's no evidence here to support any of this stuff. And that wasn't even the longest in it served. In that case, a local carpenter swept up and all that bullshit served twenty years of a forty year sentence for supposedly molesting children and making them drink blood again with no evidence whatsoever. To back up. The claims was pomegranate. Juice told by the newspaper that it's a SuperFood heard that thirty people were sent to prison based on satanic ritual abuse claims. And those claims were extracted from children by investigators who told the kids that if they could just all the. Cops, what they wanted to hear. This would all be over and they could all go home and that is a sentence you hear again. And again, ROY book that I will also be using a reference as we go through this episode called true stories of false confessions, which was edited by rob warden and Stephen a drizzle, and it's a very interesting and it does a breakdown of the many different ways. False confessions come down and it's a lot more prevalent than we think. Absolutely. On a more humorous side, it would be interesting to walk into a police dish and be like, why did all this candy around bribing children make up stories they would be would be amazed with safer mini sniffers the well. That's exactly what they were doing because they were talking to these kids and they'd needle things out of him. They would ask them leading questions and the kids found that every time they told they said something awful. They get a reward. They get a piece of candy that go out to choke teases. They get a reward every single time. So they just started saying weirder and writer shit. Like when your dog poop outside and you give them a treat poop inside and slowly he learns interesting. So in other words, the west Memphis three weren't the only ones who got swept up and all this nonsense. They were just the only ones whose case included a trip to death row. Well, lucky lucky, strange, strange. It is kind of luck Eunice strange strange way. So about a week after the murders, the detective who would immediately take into the cult angle based on the accusations of witch-hunter. Jerry driver skies name name was Don Bray. He brought Vicki Hutcheson back in for questioning. He asked her if she'd ever heard about or seen anything around town might be considered a cult behavior. She said she hadn't seen it herself, but she'd hurt some kids in her trailer park might be dabbling new them. Kids can no good. They went out in that field. An also check a later. No reason to be carved in. No, they don't. And I also, I also heard those kids complaining Chick-fil-A is closed on Sunday. They said they wanted to chicken sandwich and a Sunday. If there was one satanist branch of Chick-fil-A that was only on Sunday, I would go to it so often is amazing food. And since the reward money for breaks in the case was growing by the day, Vicky. With the approval of a member of the police department sid she would quote unquote play detective to see what else she could find out concerning those dabbling 's out. Get to the bottom. All this with moss wish be hand waitress shoes. Honestly, you can do a lot in waitress shoes. Y'all are nurse shoes? Yes, those big ones. Now how Vicky came to be focused on Jesse. Miskelly is a matter of speculation, but the most widely accepted theory is that detective. Don Bray had shown Vicki Hutcheson, Jerry drivers list of satanic teenagers seen each one of these. I wait a follow spider. He, I followed him to the Michaels where he'd bought all of the crosses. Don't know. Why did that? Not why turn is x shaped frames. But I know you turn them upside out Seitz upset honesty. It dabbling will great detective work. And if you'll remember Jesse, Miskelly had earned a spot on that satanic teenager list for his Spock hair and stuff. That's right. And Jesse Miskelly was the only person on that list that Vicky new because Jesse would sometimes babysitter kids. So Vicki started talking to Jesse and he at and she asked him if he knew Damian Jesse said yeah, little because you know, even though they didn't really know each other that well knew each other enough to say hi to, they weren't really what you'd call friends. They didn't hang out small town. Yeah, that's totally normal. Jesse openly said that he was afraid of Damian that he thought Damian was super creepy. There was it's this thing where they're all certain come being pushed together. Can I also just point out the fact that Jesse used to babysit her children? Yeah. Like, what are you doing. You're out at the bar and your friends like where's the kids like, oh, jesse's taking care of it. It's a toss up how well are they doing? We don't really know coverted macaroni when we get home or they might be really smart. The best part about being, I think, looked after by a simpler person as the first two hours are great. It's really just when it starts. Again, it's losing control where the macaroni game become serious and then keys macaroni game. If that's gotta be difficult babysitter very fun game. So Vicki goes back to detective Bray and Jerry driver. She tells him what she found out says, you know, Jesse knows the dude's not friends with them, but he knows them. So these two assholes sent a waitress on a secret, undercover mission to fair it out information on a person that they thought one hundred percent was a vicious, triple child murderer. Think about how hot this must have been. You've got Vicky yet, Vic. He's a little under the weather. She's got some. She's got some wear on the sightings, but she's ready to go. You know what I mean? She's cheesed it the hottest spot in town. She's a waitress. She's the go-to. If you need to connect at that that fuck and get their Premo food driver, fearless man of God de down into the heart of a Colt. He will drive the stake. He knows what he has to do that you have to cut off the head of the snake to get that tail wriggling and then you get it up in your hands. You suck on. It looks like a limp penis, but it's you're dead snake now, and these men are there now drawn together and which is deadly serious. Yeah, they're going to bust open a synthetic coal in the middle of their hometown by the acting like it's the movie sneakers is totally crazy. Yeah, it really is. So here was their plan. Vicky would get Jesse to bring Damian to her trailer under the auspices of romantic interests. Jenky caned even I got my. On the grass one, close this, nothing like pretending you out in the barn and you're to piggies Khurana. Make more little. Romance is in the air. Of course, like Jesse, he didn't know the real reason. My Vicky wanted to meet Damian and you, honestly. I mean, he's like odds, Lou weird. This woman enter thirties wants to fuck this eighteen year old kid, but he's like our at our, I'll do it. So once Damian was in her clutches Vicki's plans that she would seduce him verbally without getting physical. And eventually she would gain his trust and be brought into the local satanic witch coven. This was seriously their master plan, hurts the sexiest groovy thing in the world Damion no. What is it. Putting the penis in vagina. It really is a trailer park version of the Jim Carey, classic once bitten, get a chance, check that out this Halloween season. I like the idea though that she does feel like she could seduce him just by talking. But like there is nothing easier than seducing eighteen year old boy. Yeah, that is a pretty simple task. Yeah. Do you know this for sure. Oh boy. I do. All you have to do is just be like, hi. With this, of course, but this idea, I just like the fact that this was all completely serious and she truly thought that she was just gonna get right in there. Let's just say Damian was really innoc- tentacle let's say Damien really. Was it killer? They just put this woman just it reminds me dumb and dumber with Jim Carey. Another carry reference. What is the very shabby in the face. We had to take God driver even provided Vicky with set dressing. He gave her a list of books on the occult but could be found at the local library, and he suggested that she should scatter them around her trailer. So as to make herself seem a little spookier and I'm going to say this is actually not a bad tip gas listeners, and you know who you are, and if you're just trying to get that person who's just the scoots spookier, then you into the fold, you try to close that deal. You get Colin Wilson's the Colt and you leave it on a table. Oh, yeah. Get calling Wilson's. The call a field guide to demons is very good. You can get a couple of loose copies, amendments and magic. Just a couple of you wanna do. If you just enter them around the house, they're going to think you're in Oklahoma. They have TJ strategic places this really here, and then you accidents. It's like, where do I? Where did I put my wine glasses? And you put the books on top of where the wine glasses would be and you like better move these tomes of the colts. Really, why. So the day in question, Jessie ran into Jason and Damien, and the trailer park and told them all about this older woman named Vicky that wanted a piece a Damian. So the boys followed Jesse. Vicki's trailer went inside. Jesse stayed outside just kinda milling around. I don't like me. I don't wanna make fun of Jesse at all, but it's just could see him just kicking rocks. The colts being brought down and they're just be out here with me. He's if he's very sweet. He's a very sweet man. Well, just Jason Jesse didn't even know that this whole satanic cult thing going on because all Vicki told him like, yeah, come on, get a piece of this Damian kid. He seems kinda hot and Jessie are at because he considered Vicki his friend, right? Because he watched her kids. You've trusted her? Yes, that is a mistake that this man will make again. Yeah, and so the boys went inside and Jesse said, after about fifteen minutes, Damian's mom showed up in her car picked up the boys and drove off. And as far as Jesse knew, that was the extent of Damian Vicki's relationship. But Vicky, she had a whole different story to tell. She said that Damian was immediately impressed by her spooky atmosphere. So he invited her to a local s bought who can help. But notice this copy of Richard Dolan. You foes in the twenty th century, there have been doing this, but. Simply months, you simply must come. Well, the man you're talking to is probably eighty years old and overweight. Anything better than getting what you want right. When you want it like last bug asked, listen, whatever you want when it's convenient for you. So why are you still schlep into the post office to mail letters and packages when you can get posted on demand with stamps dot com, with stamps dot com, you can access all the fantastic services post office, right from your desk? Twenty. Four, seven. When it's convenient for you buy and print official US postage for any letter, any package using your own computer and printer and the mail carrier picks it up. Just click print mail and you're done. It could not be easier. See we here at last podcast on the left of us stamps dot com at the studio, and it makes everyone's lives much easier from shipping out merge to sending out save the dates and Christmas cards. Stamps dot com is just a no brainer. The less time we spend mailing stuff out the more time we have to bring you the shows you love. If you've got stuff to ship cinder mail, we recommend stamps dot com. Right? Now us left for this special offer. It includes up to fifty five dollars free postage a digital scale and a four week trial. Don't wait go to SAM's dot com before you do anything else. Click on the radio microphone at the top of the homepage and type in l. e. f. t. that stamps dot com. Enter left l. e. f. t.. S. bought for those of you who don't know is a non Sabbath gathering of a witch covens more like an informal get together than an actual ceremony who'll in fact, the word s but is derived from a word that means to frolic. The most ancient form of a mixer. I think also what you'd call it and legally you cannot go to an his body without one of those, you know those like very thin anklets with the little bells on them. So you can do. Those are fun. So according to what Vicky told detective Bray on may nineteenth, two weeks after the kids went missing Damian picked Vickie up in a red Ford Escort. And Jesse just happened to be in the back seat along for the ride, like vampires need a hatchback office. Know right off the bat, anyone who had done their homework about Damian and I'm talking about the police here. Anyone who had done homework about Damian knew that this was a lie because not only did Eccles family not own a red Ford Escort, but Damian couldn't drive to the point where it was one of one of his things. Oh yeah. Those eddies like that. Jed Larssen roundtable of gentlemen where he will not drive. He refuses to drive just walks. The highway really does is the the journeyman like all the wean. He is the Michael Myers of our friends. But regardless Vic. He said, the two boys took her to a secluded field in the middle of the night where they found ten other teenagers. She said that she didn't recognize any of them and she couldn't give the names to break either because they all use nicknames like spider snake and Lucifer. Well, that's an. That is my real name is Lucifer. You may know me by my nickname is mister spoons, collect those those little collectible spooky anywhere you go, you find the spoons are anyway. Let's cut the dick off this baby. Do. We'll soon the attendees whose faces and arms were painted black. They all started dancing naked in the field, and they were in Vicki's words kitchen each other. Yikes, touch any touching each other. They wish this happened. This would be incredible at this half, right. Of course. This whole display offended, Vicki's delicate since abilities. So she said that Damian took her home while Jesse stayed behind to enjoy the orgy to come. I will say this in the visit. In the visit. Go into details on disturbing, but I will say this, this is not maligning waitresses whatsoever. I actually love about them, but he early thirty eight to early thirties, waitress in a small town. There Grizzle they can deal with. People. Now, of course this didn't happen, but that didn't stop Vicki. And this is serious. She testified about this in open court during a murder trial on the part of the story, right? Because we're obviously our job as to joke around about it. We're sitting here, try we we and it's very silly we're playing. It's it's a very silly scenario, but like assume as it goes official, you're just laughing yourself to the fucking electric chair. This is this is what they almost did. It's what our country's sort of doing too. It's that whole entertaining ourselves death thing where just so whacky that you think it's funny but put if it's being said in a court stenographers type in it and it becomes like a precedent. Now, it comes a part of legal history. I mean at this, this is why when you think about Damien, Echols behavior, all of these stories are so bad shit. Crazy. Yeah, that he could not imagine anyone taking them seriously. So he just reacted in a way that he was appropriate, which was a total disrespect. He total disrespect for the. Process because they're talking about covens and all this nonsense. I mean, he didn't even have ten friends. Yeah. Every one of these stories in the true stories of false confessions. Also the same thing. It starts off with this wall of IM. Innocent the courts are fair. There is no way that anything I can say can even incriminate me because I didn't do it that all of this will come out like all be solved, but it's like you still requiring those twelve people in the room to agree with your side of the truth. Good luck. There's going to be a lot of righteous indignation once we get into all that. But the reason why we're saying this never happened is not just because it sounds ridiculous because it does. We're saying it never happened because vici Vicki Hutcheson has said multiple times sense on camera that she lied about the whole fair beginning to end according to her and everybody else the extent of her relationship with Damian. Was in fact the fifteen minute visit before Damian's mom came and picked him up to mazing what people will do for small town cop approval, not just on top of frugal, but a little bit of cash as well. This is my. Could I ask that maybe an expert listener can maybe in for me to or maybe we could talk about this? What good is it offering a revolt, a reward for tips for information because shit like this came, this really comes into play here where thirty five thousand dollars. We'll change these people's lives and they, it's a obvious. Want it good drives you a need to to say something to the police, even if it's fate. Again, it requires faith in the system because the the Justice department, you know, investigate a bodies. They also rely on a set of checks and balances. However, though sets of checks and balances must be maintained within the system and with every single on force body, they're smaller and smaller microcosm of checks and balances. This local law enforcement as a series of checks and balances. They're supposed to go through state. Law enforcement, does the FBI does everybody is supposed to check and double check their work. And in the case of the west Memphis, three, fuck, and nobody double check their work. Now it's never great when the detectives bring the witness back into a room where how Mandel is there? There's a series of briefcases. They call it the deal no deal and they say, choose a box and that will be your reward for falsely accusing these people of murder, but I can switch the box. And can I could do a last minute switch? Right? It's a fab to seven. Okay. Switzer for twelve. Okay. It's switched or here is where detected Durham. The polygraph examiner from the last episode comes into play again. Remember Durham did a test on Damien Echols about a week after the murders and said, now that kids, lion, he knows more than he saying. So he did a polygraph test on Vicki concerning her claims. And he found by his ratings that she was one hundred percent telling the truth. He also found her to be extremely stressed because it turns out it wasn't a polygraph in him. He was wondering if you wanted to be in Scientology. This is ridiculous. Everyone is so bias. It's it's so aggravating. Well, it will be proved again and again over the course of the next couple episodes that Durham didn't know what the hell he was doing. And here's why see, given polygraph test is much more than just interpreting the readings given. It's also about asking the right kinds of questions, and because the line of questioning he took about the night of the s bought, it's possible he could have interpreted what really happened that night as what he wanted to hear. And later on Vicky told the story as she actually remembered it. So tell me, let me ask you is your name. In fact, Vicky Hutchinson is like, so you saw the nature of the event. The bought a, you're speaking of people nude touching each other painted in black, writhing on the grass is, would you in fact be interested in doing. Something with this polygraph. Knees, she's selling the true. I know she wants range, Dayton, deed while this is the real story according to Vicky on the day of the suppose. It s Bhatt she'd broken up with her boyfriend and bought a couple of fifth while Turkey to drown sorrows you to do it so far. Like she said, she was already a bottle in who by the time she was picked up by someone to go to some sort of party. I think it was the guys in the pig cart on you want to go with me. Who's that jersey. Episode have kids in the fucking cart, full pigs. This is the fanciest car of ever see. So she's on one hundred proof wilder wild Turkey. She's got a fifth awhile Turkey inside of her. Take down Andre, the giant and pretty much all she remembered is at this party. It was in a field. It was weird. People were painted black or so she thought and the people were undressing each other or so. She thought she didn't know where it was. Who was there who took her there or how she got home. The only thing she remembered was that she woke up alone in the front yard of her trailer the next morning with an empty bottle of wild Turkey sitting next to her. That's I believe that because that's exactly how your night ends. And that's kind of fun. Actually, when you wake up and you're like, oh, wow, I really. It's like it's like the flip naughty side of teddy bear picnic. All of it. It's like a fairy godmother. And if you just drink just enough while Turkey, the wild teddy best of show would forest will come and take you and strip you in a field and listened to their sweep teddy bear song sweet teddy bear dances, strange children's book. Well, the thing is about this stories. How relate is later on. She just filled in the details with Damian and Jesse. I see, but that wasn't her only contribution to the case. Perhaps the more important one is the contribution that isn't mentioned in any of the documentaries at all, and seems actually kinda go under the radar little bit. But I think it's perhaps the key to understanding how the rest of the department finally came around Vicki's other contribution was her son Erin. By the time they got back around to him almost three weeks gone by without a single break. In the case. And the cops were starting to get even more desperate. The entire town is going through trauma. Yeah. The like all the sites of three sweet little boys seem to be cash traded in front. It's a brutal crime. They have no leads. They have no clue where to where to turn their, the medical reports have not come in. They don't. They don't even know how they fucking died. And so they are grasping at straws. Yep. The only thing they had at this point where rumors and hearsay about Damien Echols same shit. They had two weeks before Gus, and they had heard Jack shit about Jason Baldwin at this point. But Jason and Damien hung out constantly. So there you go and being facetious here at all. That was the reasoning. That was the extent of their evidence against Jason, Baldwin, no evidence, no evidence. It was just like, well, those hang out together right there. You go course Damian was there Ecorse Jason's going to be there because they're always together. Look at that naturally by. Association is a very intense claim. It's used by the police quite a bit to get what they want. And a part of it is when it works, it's great, but it could be manipulated in a case like this, a Lulu didn't hold Jason Baldwin's life is ruined by it. EPs guilt by association. A lot of people being charged with mirrors even if they didn't pull the trigger because they were in a car or something like that. There's a great Emma killer on Netflix as a couple of stories like that. And Damian tells the story when he's in solitary about a man who was when he was on death row, which that happened. One of the dudes pull the trigger. The other guy was with them. They were executed on the same day. The guy who was executed was like really happy. Did tell the story? No. Okay. The guy who was executed was like whistling and stuff, and the guy who was not innocent but guilt by association when it comes to murder, gave Damian all of his all his goods and very finite amount of goods, of course, but he couldn't eat. He was vomiting constantly, and it was one of those things that Damian's really stuck with him as one of. The horrors of death row, yeah. Well, Damian, he wasn't doing himself any favors either. He seemed actually kind of be enjoying his newfound notoriety. He'd been going around town doing his Goth kid. Bullshit not taking any of this series Lii and using all of it to bolster his spooky boy reputation and the get it. That's when Marilyn Manson. Let us believe that he cut his ribs so we could suck his own dick. Today gives you an edge on people in the conversation. If they know you went to that full extent. So I could fully accordion myself in my own. That that tells you a lot about the person. Absolutely. And it's like, am I am I also the character from the wonder years. I Don. I don't know. Well, the conversation that would get the most attention during this time was the infamous softball confession Damian was standing group of kids at a softball game. Just a local afternoon. Softball game Damian told all of them that he was the one who killed the boys and he's going to do again for turn himself in now already picked out the final victims. Right? Oh, yeah, buddy. But this is the power. That's what you do. It's how it's coming from powerless position. Well, we, this is a mistake. Yeah, he's a young boy. Yeah, he's a young kid. You gotta ask yourself. What's more likely scenario here that this kid was not only admitting to a triple homicide, but was openly talking about his next set at goddamn softball game, right? Or that it was just some dumb kid talk and shit crime, crime. Crime on right eighty. You hear it sometimes with zero killers, but they really don't the mostly what they'll do is that that's why it is outside of the character of true like someone that would do this form of what they believe. They lust killing something like this, where they would stay close to the crimes. That's what we've learned quite a bit about your killers. They like talking to the police that are involved doing that, but mostly they want to appear as model citizens because Ciro killers and people do this type of violent crime. A lot of times have like these inner games where they like to feel that they are hiding out as like a sheep in wolf's cl-. Right. When sheep's clothing? Yeah, with with among the innocent people and using thrill out of it, you see that all the time when someone goes up the I forty eight shows this on a regular basis. Great docu series where someone will just be like, I have some information that clears my name. Didn't know you were so interested, Amos cleared, but this will just show you how born is west Memphis, Arkansas. They were at a softball game eighteen years old. This was. Entertainment children do not tell you what groups of boys do weird shit, I got I, the illegal cable box. Baseball team came over my house one time and I was like, boys are you're ready to see some pornography and everyone like far. And I went and I flipped the switch and we put on the spice channel and we sat in silence for four minutes. Yep, you watch to didn't understand and then we shut it on your secret that that should stayed within the baseball community. I picture you with a beard still with you're like. I wanna see something, hey, guys, Marcus parks here for twenty three and me. Twenty-three me is a DNA testing service that can offer insights into your ancestry health wellness and traits, the twenty three and me health and ancestry service includes reports on how your DNA and influence your weight sleep, quality caffeine intake, cintas, whether you're likely to be lactose intolerant and more twenty three and me is super easy to do. You simply spit into the tube provided in your twenty three and me kit and mail your saliva sample back to the lab to be analyzed. 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So order your twenty three and me health and ancestry kit at twenty three and me dot com slash left. That's the number two, three eight d. m. e. dot com slash left. Lust. Killers Henry makes a pretty good point. Bringing that up is like an list. You're welcome, lust. Killers. They don't talk about their crimes. This casualty because they wanna do it again. And also a lot of times less killers are deeply ashamed of their crimes, and they don't confess to their murders into if they ever do confess until way down the line. Right? And basically when they're already in prison and it's the end of the line against the wall. Again, Casey Anthony's took that tour. For job quietly, they were just there's no more room to walk or like Ed Kemper when when Ed Kemper like halls up and confesses and and all that sort. And you know, a lot of them never can pass a lot of never turn themselves in because they want to keep doing it. And when they do talk about it, they're not casually talking to their peers about it. They're not casually talking to a bunch of other to a bunch of children about this shit. Like I, you don't. They don't talk about it with a sneer later Damian, technically nailed it on the head when he gave his shithead answers to the cops about why people why a person would do this crime, right? Why someone would do the lust killer version of this crime, which is really enjoyed what they were doing. And it's an essential nature of the serial killer. And this type of murderer is that they take their actions very seriously. So it's their message to the world. A lot of times it's a, it's a thing that is a weird inner ritual that they are part of it is. Not just kind of flippantly thrown out and that is if this is a lust killing oak, we're going to get into that on part three. But with Damian a softball confession, the nature of the crimes created a kind of paradox in the minds of people who believe Damian did it. They thought and think still that person who commit these kinds of crimes would of course be evil enough to brag about it. Therefore, since Damian bragged about it, he must be the killer because only the killer would be evil enough to brag about it makes all the sense in the world. I don't know. It's just that circular logic, because when you say, well, why? Why would he brag about this stuff? And when you tell them that it's like 'cause evil. So he's the Ridler. Oh, so you think he goes like. It doesn't work like that a man in a suit. Yeah, that is the people that are that selling us these phone American psycho great example evil with a conclusion about the softball confession, which shared by the west Memphis police department after three weeks of turning up nothing Gary Goetchel. The lead investigator was finally desperate enough to hear what the nuts in town had to say about all this Satan business. Now, I will say at this point I understand he's he's out there running his mouth at the softball game. It's a little bit boring. Look at grunts and stuff grown goals in softball grow. Really liked those John Stockton shorts, especially back in the day. Yeah. So I understand them going today me and be like, yeah, what was that all about? Yeah, probably should've not there. Of course. In the meantime, detective Bray had been pressing, Aaron Hutchison for information just like all all the other detectives had done years before in the state Tannock. Ritual abuse cases pressing the eight year old, pressing the that they didn't. All these cases talked to these kids and the press them press, impress them until finally, they told them what they wanted to hear. And finally, Erin hit told detective Bray what he wanted to hear just to shut them up and send him a way just to get a Chuck. Oh, taco. Your child being kept in a fucking interrogation room, getting bored, you don't really understand what they're saying. They're just going like, oh yeah, okay. Because you're, you're, you're getting positive feedback from a police officer. They're telling a story and that's all there. And that's all thing. And and then in the main came and Dan, it's a good thing and then cop has, but he's acting super interested in like your parents that are mostly highly board your existence, right? Aaron said that prior to the murder, he and the deceased boys had seen a group of men doing weird shit and Robin Hood hills on the regular. The men would sit in a circle chant, have sex with each other and sing songs about the devil. Just sounds like a wonderful city council meeting San Francisco does sound kind of fun. I would say that's a little bit more than weird. It was actually happening, but that's interested. Devil make me hard to. Make me hawk. Okay. And the whole get hard to staring at it. Circle. They were be fun. They were doing something called the human centipede. I was thinking about those. Thinking about those actors the other day, haven't seen him around very much. I feel bad for them. I'm certainly feel no shame. Okay. Oh, not well. After the Ted bid about the devil singing Gary Goetchel and a couple of other detectives drove out errands place to hear more. And when they got there, they found that there was a supposed piece of evidence to go along with that testimony. See, Vicky had an earring. She had this little mail order plastic skull pieces shit at a snake slithering out of the eye socket. You don't got a disk that man, that's. Guess it's very, it's very kick ass, but it's, you know, it's one of those QVC buys when the remotes on your stomach, and but you can't turn the channel because you don't want to reach the remote. Just to go buy it. It's all these spooky now. Of a comic book. Like that. And Vicky had said that Damian had dropped this earring in her trailer and her son said that he had seen one of the devil singers wearing one exactly like it so get, you'll completely exhausted and looking for anyone to blame decided that the man they were after was Damien Echols. And since Vickie wasn't getting anywhere further with her, pretend detective work. The cops decided the only bridge they had to Damian was his backseat buddy at the s bought Jesse, miss Kelly, okay. Or poor? Boy, I feel so bad for this came all he wanted. All he wanted to do was drive his truck. That's all he wanted. He loved his truck. All we wanted to do is make people happy. That's all. That's all Jesse Miskelly wanted to do every time he goes the all he wanted to do. I think of nothing but trouble. Life is yes, paired forever with no, but he is really such a, they're all victims, but my God is missed. Mister Miskelly is a, this is devastating story. So to ensure that Jesse was exactly where the cops wanted him to be. They told Vickie to ask Jesse to stay over on her couch for the night because of prowler supposedly been seen in the neighborhood. She is thirty two years old. He is seventeen years old. It's weird. It's just what you're just he was the. He was the man that would come around. You know what I mean? And the night Jessie spent on that couch doing a favor for a woman that he thought was his friend would be the last night. He would spend outside of prison for another nineteen years. God, that's so hard to even rationalize in your head. Yeah, it's it's hard to put it. It's hard to think about this today. You're on a couch today tonight you're on a couch or tonight you're sleeping in your bed. Tomorrow you're in prison for the next nineteen years and you don't fuck and see it come in at all, and it goes by such a whiplash speed you'd. It happens before you know it. So at nine AM the next morning, jesse's dad knocked on Vicki's trailer door until Jesse that the cops had some questions since his dad's said. It was all right. Jesse didn't really think yet anything to worry about like, all right, yeah, let's do it. Jesse's dad didn't really think Jesse had anything to worry about because the cops didn't tell him they were about to grill his son about his direct involvement in a triple murder. Gosh, in addition to that on the way to the station, cops just happened to offhandedly mentioned that the reward was up to thirty five k. and then it might end up in jesse's hands if he played his cards right in jesse's dad said, hell, yeah. If you know some tell them hell by new Trump. Good. This is the thing too. Again, playing. Towards a terrible future all this sheet. It's just like fun, big mental games thrill. Yeah, we'll go talk to the cops move. We. We'll get a little money yet. Where it's like, no man, this deadly concert they are. They are building their case. They're, they're pulling fishing. Yeah, to these, like Jesse and his dad. I mean, this is like a little little Griff. They can play like, oh, maybe we'll pull one over on them are go ahead. Go ahead, go on trial, whereas like no real cut, no real concept of how serious this is and how many, how the consequences, how the dice can roll up snake is real fucking easy kid. I mean, this is. That's great. NNcholas cage movie. It's a New York reference, but always ask for Ron Kuby. I don't even always ask for everyone knows wrong Kubis the best. So Jesse, I mean, and here's one more thing. No about Jesse before he goes into this into this confession. If you'll remember he wanted nothing more than a police people and he especially wanted to please his abusive father because his dad used to beat the shit out him from the time. He was a little little kid and when people are abused the person they want to please the most is their abuser. So if they finally do it, if you finally get to the point, we're just make them proud enough that they'll stop give you the love that you want up stock home syndrome. Absolutely. And it happens all the time if you look at, well, film analogy would be Beverly, it's sexually abused and abused. She ends up in relationships like that. And that cycle happens over and over again. So Jessie, he went to the police station ready to talk now before we get into the confession of Jesse Miskelly. Let's talk a little bit about false confessions, which is just about the hardest phenomenon in all of true. Crime for people to understand, and that includes the motivation of serial killers, and it is very difficult for people to wrap their heads around the fact that you can commit. You can confess to a thing that you did not do, but there's ways to get around. It's portly. It's partially the way our Justice system works, where they hold a confession higher above any other sort of scientific like they're trying to get a polygraph experts. The the system that they're taught is GTC which call stands for get the confession, and that's what they're supposed to get it. So the book true stories, a false confession says, a fun breakdown of how many of the different ways that happen. It happens. It has these nine little chapter heads of the of the the ways they do it, which is brainwashing. You confess that if this relation to stop the interrogation inquisition style questioning, which happens again, child abuse straight up, just coercing child into confess which. Happens if a, if a defendant is too mentally fragile, which is what we're seeing in the case of Jesse Miskelly inference, which means you take statements, they make about other crimes or other things that are do not have anything to do with the crime that you are investigating and use. You basically pull him over total fabrication. We're just make it up and pinned on you. There's opportunity where people who confessed to get money like deport Jessica Kelly, the Miskelly pretense of police force, just forcing you do it. And then I think called unrequited innocence, which is a very interesting topic, which is cases in which defendants were convicted of crimes based on confessions or incriminating statements. That in all probability were false, but who have been denied relief. These are people that are kept in jail for forever Daime Echols, right. And of course, Miskelly was wanting to do what they wanted him to do. You radically would go home. Yeah. So for starters, let's remind everyone that investigators know that people confess to crimes. They didn't commit all the time. That's why. Why? When there's a high profile case, certain details are kept from the public that way, if someone confesses the cops, have something cross reference with to see if that person full of shit or not, right. So drill that into your head competent and ethical investigative bodies us very strict procedures to ensure that they have the right person, right? Otherwise, you have the situation as we saw with Brendan dazzling fascinating that would make an murderer in the central park five doc. If you watch that, you also see a very similar situation happening according to the innocence project who so mission is to exonerate the wrongly convicted out of the three hundred fifty people who have been exonerated in America. Using DNA evidence eighty seven of them had confessed to their crimes. In fact, these confessions can be so convincing even to the people who make them that the people who confess conform very real memories of committing a crime that they had nothing to do with one example. Is ADA JoAnn Taylor Taylor confessed to and was convicted of the nineteen eighty-five smothering death of a sixty eight year old woman named Helen. Wilson problem was JoAnne not only didn't commit the crime. She wasn't even there and neither were the other five people, five people who confessed to and went down for the crime. Six people in one case confessed to having a part in this crime. And yet none of them were even there. We know this because through DNA testing, it was found twenty three years after the murder that the perpetrator was a juvenile delinquent named Bruce Alan Smith, whose grandmother shared an apartment building with the victim. And yet even though it was proved that none of these people committed the crime and it was proved that none of them were there. And only one of them even knew the victim passing all six of the wrongfully convicted. Still vividly. Remember doing it crazy. It is the the power of the human mind visualize. You could like when we talk about ritual and we talk like when you were doing ks magic, the tug this part of it is this it is creating an absolute bed rock truth in your mind. That was not there before the human mind is very capable of it. We were very imaginative and then we can adapt immediately to what we now consider to be our new reality and a port of these. A lot of these crimes with false confessions, especially when I was reading about in this book as at there's pressure on inside and there's pressure on outside is that these people a lot of times it coming from a crime that is very emotionally charged, especially when it comes to children or a an extravagant murder. Something very, very intense, something that is causing the community to also start their court of public opinion already. You already guilty on the outside because we see there's this one guy named Kevin. FOX, whose whole he ended up. He admitted to the, he confessed it a horrible murder of his three year old girl and part of it came from the entire community that they were this respected family. They turn their backs on. Them was soon as he was accused. Everybody flipped out saying, he raped his little girl and he murdered, he drowned her in a pool, and it was very, very intense. He ended up fooling under all of the lines of pressure, right? All of a sudden he's sitting with this and it's a part of it. Is that close? He's innocent, he's like, well, in some deep, Deepak part of his brain like this shit will wash out right and -solutely. And this stuff happens to regular folk a two thousand fifteen study published in a journal called psychological science, found that after conducting just three interviews with test subjects, seventy percent of them had formed memories of a past crime. They did not commit well, that is what a lot of police officers do. They. Paint the picture. It's almost like a mad libs where they just get any already have the script all worked out. You just gotta fill in a couple of the blanks. Yup. And of course, those are just just say, yes, we'll see here with Miskelly the way that they manipulated him. It's so obvious in transparent. It's just unfortunate that there's no, there was no one in there to help this poor boy, I will say I missed about jangle. Thank you again. To the police to pop, and I will confess that bojangles does serve the Crispus chicken. Did you could find them on this week? Sweet flat planet of us. And you just tested, you could see I, I'm sorry. Mr. Miskelly you're one I witnessed as a flatter actually to have them leave. He it is true. His chicken spent test it is so how does this happen? And more importantly, why do people do it? Just so happens that we have a textbook case with the confession of Jesse Miskelly. This episode of last podcast on the left is brought to you by apostle now streaming only on Netflix, nineteen, o five London, prodigal son. Thomas Richardson returns home only to find that his sisters being held for ransom by mysterious religious cult, determined to get her back at any cost. Thomas travels to the idyllic island occupied by the cult that lives under the leadership of the charisma attic profit, Malcolm as Thomas simple traits, the island community, he learns that the corruption of mainland society that they claim to reject has infested the cult's ranks. Nonetheless, Thomas journey, we'll uncover a harrowing secret far. More evil than he could ever imagine straight from the terrifyingly twisted mind of writer and director Gareth Evans acclaimed writer and director of the raid franchise comes a visually stunning and disturbing tale of a man in pursuit of rescuing his sister from a religious coat. Apostle is a chilling cult fable that will have you sitting on the edge of your seat from beginning to end starring Dan Stevens and Michael sheen apostle now streaming only on Netflix. So the first person to get a hold of Jesse was the same guy who'd been stern up shit at every turn for weeks, detective Durham. So Durham hook Jesse up to the polygraph and asked among other questions. Do you know who killed the boys? Have you ever done drugs? Were you there? Did you kill the boys? Of course, Jesse said. Twitching imagining being asked these questions. And of course Jesse said, all he knew was what he'd heard, and he said, no, all the other questions. But according to the detective's notes, Durham came out and said, quote he's line is asked. So once again, Durham, got exactly the response. He was looking for just like he'd gotten an every other test done in this case, GTC baby. Now this may be because durum had no fucking clue what he was doing. See on jesse's polygraph unlike Damian's the records were kept suggests he's lawyers were later able to get a second opinion. They kicked the records over to this guy named homes who'd worked for the FBI the Mounties the Texas Rangers and Adum polygraph work during the Watergate investigations. In other words, this dude knew what the fuck he was doing in a business of bullshit detection. He was great at being the. Best version of bullshit detector you want to read the lines. Right? And he said, the only question Jessie lied about was the one asking if he'd ever done drugs. He said he hadn't, which we all know is a bald faced lie. I gotta have a little gasoline system every now and again, really just relaxes some inhalant. No, you know, what is he? It's it's very funny. 'cause you, you need to have video in this shit, of course, because you know, when he asked me to drugs, just. No, you have to like hear that tone of voice. But regardless since Durham had said that Jesse was lying about everything. The investigators had amunition see told Jesse that the polygraph machine could read is mind and that his brain would tell the cops if he was telling ally, oh my God. And, and according to the readings, Durham told Jesse that is brain had told Durham that Jesse was lying about everything perfect detail me. My brain's is snitch. So instead of being outraged or saying, check your bullshit again or immediately asking for a lawyer, Jesse trusted the police officer to the point where he couldn't understand why his own brain was tone the machine that he was lying when he knew that he was told the truth, he blamed himself. This is such a great indicator though of his mental capacity. Yeah. And they they were doing. There's a part of what they talk about in this book that actually was pretty eliminating about. Talking with somebody with either mentally handicapped talking to someone with either a mental handicap or is just a little slow, but then appear to be is one of the tools that they use with an the. The jury would not know by looking at him that he has a mental handicap. He does not have the physical features of somebody who is a that has down syndrome or something who's like medically mentally handicapped. These guys can sort of use that to their advantage like the don't know to the degree of his learning disability, and it's pretty distinct. He can't. He does not understand a lot about reality. He has the temperament of a attend to twelve year old. Yeah, they sort of third greater their greater and you can tell the cops knew all you have to listen to the child like way they used to explain the polygraph and even then after they use that childlike explanation, Jesse still. I didn't understand it. Nope, because he was telling the truth, but nevertheless, after about two hours polygraph examination, Jesse was shuffled into another room and this was where lead investigator Gary get, yo was waiting. All right. Now you got to address this venom. In their early venom roll. Okay. Now you gotta remember by this point, the cops were a day away from the one month anniversary of the murders and they had nothing. It's like Anne slick that famous song only a day away. Now I can't even imagine the pressure that was on Guichard at this point. And suddenly he had a kid in front of him that he thought new a hell of a lot about the murderers because his polygraph examiner had just said so. But at this point, those still time to go back. And this is where my sympathy forget you'll comes to screech in fucking halt. Yeah, under pressure is not an excuse for wrongfully, convicted three kids know, see, get yo. He could have conducted himself like an honest officer of law, which there are plenty were not caught bashing here, and he could pretty quickly figured out that Jessie wasn't there man, and he could soon after told Durham to throw away his fucking polygraph because he obviously didn't know what he was doing, but he didn't. He went into that room damn near decided that either Jesse was there man or he knew who that man or men were in men. He wanted were Damien Echols and Jason Baldwin. The nice thing about the nice thing about. Walls is you can constantly banger head or your head right on them. There classic move, put him into another room when you move them into an even smaller room, the pressure increases and Jesse did have some starting knowledge of all this. Like I said, Jesse like everybody else in town and how everybody else in the country. He'd heard rumors. In fact, when jesse's friends told him that he'd heard that it was probably Damien and Jason done it. So when they asked, what do you know about these murders? He was like, are Damien and Jason done it. That's right. Yeah, they're Eva cult members. Yeah, but that was all he knew, and he told the cops that that was all he knew. So the cops gave him more. The kept giving him details. They tell them that the kids were tied up. And then when they asked Jesse, if the kids were tied up, he'd say, yeah, those Todd up win. They'd ask what Jesse said rope, and then they get pissed off and say, no, God, damn it. It wasn't rope. It was shoelaces and they go through the whole thing again in the Jesse would say, yeah, they was tied up. Shoelaces, then the threats began, and that was when Jesse started getting scared. His Goetchel drew a little picture for them was a circle with a bunch is on the outside and three little dots on the inside. Get your pointed at the dots and said these right here. That's you Damien and Jason. These Xs out here. These are the police. So you gotta make a decision either your inside with Damien and Jason you're outside with us. And if you're outside with us, you can go home and if you wanna go home, all you gotta do is tell us what happened. And if you haven't watched west of Memphis, watched that documentary, they really break down this strategy Mirroring. Mimicking is a very common thing that police will use. They suggested everything, yes, and they and they put it, they plant the little things in your mind. And this is a point I will say this to, I'm almost not even comfortable with doing the podcast without a lawyer. This need to have like a lawyer on a rope, not slay, I'm paying him running pay. We'll pay you. Don't understand. That's called a retainer. And actually them like your like your Columbian coffeemaker and you have a goat or. Guy on bell. Does. You're one bell Dez with you'll. You could actually shoot them an Email a little piece of jerky. I feed them. Okay. Thank you. Moi client I want, but that's. But get away. Yes, ever speak to a police officer. We fucking Moyer suggests he just started saying shit, like how they had meetings every Wednesday and Robin Hood hills and how they dogs and how they were briefcases full of drugs. Where are they getting it? Right. I mean, that's the first thing. Where are they getting these disease? All of these kids are demonstrably dirt poor. I was deeply deeply poor seniors, old living with their grandmother. Don't you think at some point, grandma would've seen a Colt. Fucking bail or them prepping two dogs. There's this port ship. The dog's gotta come in from somewhere. Place all the cooter mall for the rituals need to be kept the place. All the fucking the pentagram rungs on all cables. That's gotta be someplace. Yes, just carry around briefcases full of coke like nNcholas cage in Pulp Fiction doesn't make any sense, and I told you this nNcholas cage wasn't John Travolta John Travolta in Pulp Fiction, nNcholas cage in John Travolta, I confuse them all the time. You know what I think both made off. Incredibly literally a never switch in your mind. That's what it is. That's why it is. Yes, it's face off. No kidding. What can I just tell one story about the fire Marcus mentioned that they were super poor and just hammer home. How poor Mr. echoes was Damian was his for his house was again in the middle of this is the house when he was a kid when he was a young kid, this is the house when he was a young kid and they moved around quite a bit, but that was because they were poor, not because they were moving up. Yeah, lateral at best. And so their house was in the middle of these farm fields. And at the end of every season they burn down the fields in order to create fertilizer there, how they didn't warn them or anything like that. They burnt down the fields and Damian talks about how they would just the flames get like four feet from his house was would shack, and he was like, it was a miracle. They never never burnt down. Yeah. I mean when tell ya actual like win the crimes happen Damian was living in a two bedroom trailer with five. Other people tell you what in a real Satan, this would be would be delighted to. To be so close that these. It's so like. Flames come up the hill and you could make consume me fucking flame. I think maybe that's why you moved to Los Angeles. You live that feel the heat, the whole time that Jessie say in this shit, the cops are just no Jim along shaping the story for him. Then they showed him the autopsy pictures. Now if you've seen any of the west Memphis, three documentaries, you've seen the post mortem pictures of these little boys. They are easily the most horrifying pictures I've ever seen and I'm gonna do that scene, some shit going all the way back to rotten dot com. I would say the Dahmer crime scene photos for me are still number one. These are awful, just because it's it's again, it's the position of the fucking bodies or were horrifying to look at. We'll Henry you mentioned this is sort of a list that you're starting. I'm plus. You write down your top ten, favourite murder pictures. Can I please have an anti in. Things. You know, these pictures like they disturb the hell out and this is our job. You know, like we've seen some. We've seen some John. My job a job in Jesse, MS Kelly was just some kid. I mean, he'd never seen anything like this in his life, and these pictures scared the hell out of them and they upset him greatly. Yeah. Then there was one final manipulation and this one just seems it seems weird and it seems cruel, but it worked. Get yo played Jesse a short tape recording only one sentence long. It was the voice of Aaron Hutchison. Macabre had gone through the little boys whole testimony and plucked out one line which was intended to freak out Jesse as much as possible. All he heard was the disembodied voice of a child saying, nobody knows what happened to me. That's like fucking out a funk and that conjuring or something. Nobody knows pep and to me and like. Yeah, into concrete, interrogation cell. Like how the acoustics of that, the way that should bounces off the walls just disembodied doesn't tell move the kid was or anything like that. Just like just want you to listen to this. And again, remember you see a seventeen year old boy, but think about think of him like a third grader, yes, to manage and was going through and also on this tape. Here we have some creepy chain noise. Sounds like a big heavy doors, open and closing in there. That's a crow interesting Dr Drey when he sings study person, great. Dr dre produced. Yourself. So they they're railroad and this. Yeah, and that after they played the tape, that's when they decided it was a good time to start taping the interview. Oh, okay. Hours after winning represented minor had already begun unreal. So the cops told Jesse to start from the beginning as by this point, he'd all but told him he was involved in these cops were salivating because here was a kid who was about to tell them that Damien Echols and Jason Baldwin where the killers and this was all about to be over. But even after all that coaching jesse's taped, confessions still had monstrous contradictions. First of all, he said that he Jason and Damien had met up that morning at nine AM having already planned who were they who they were gonna kill because the little boy's pictures had been in the briefcase that was shown at the previous Wednesdays devil meeting in if. Of course, they met at nine AM because there's one thing about teenage goff's wake up early. People always think of a seventeen year old. Quiet, girly risers. Yeah, that's how I mean, I tell you what it continues into adulthood. Oh, does early to bed early to rise how it is when you worship the devil, you need to be rested. Have your oatmeal and a couple of protein in there. Oh no. It's not like I built this entire lifestyle almost solely so I wouldn't have to get up before ten thirty AM every day. Waking up with the sun. According to jesse's, I go at the story. The boys were all dead by noon, but it was known that the boys were in school all day and they last been seen alive around sundown. So when the cops asked Jesse about this, he said, all they must've skip school. So when they told him, no, they hadn't Jesse said, all right. Well, it happened around five or so, but that was still too early. So the kept pushing. And finally, he told him that it happened at seven or eight, and that's when Gill said all that clears it up. It's unbelievable. They're just so happy. You just see them copy and pasting what they want to hear. It's so hard because I can see why they want to see they are. They're desperate. They don't know what to do, but it's just like a, it's not Justice. No, Jesse was slow, but he got damn shirt new. The difference between noon and nighttime, then we're other inconsistencies as well. I mean, Jesse said that Damian had choked one of the boys to death with a big old stick, but none of the boys had shown any signs of neck trauma in the slightest much less trauma. That would be bad enough to be the cause of death Jesse so couldn't get the ligature is right either. Even though Jesse had been corrected multiple times before the confession was recorded. He still said that the boys have been tied up with Brown wrote not shoelaces and to the guilty who say that there was evidence of rope-burns. That was deemed to be a possibility by the incompetent medical examiner's office who will cover in detail on part three. But the rope burn was ruled out by competent professionals. Jesse said the boys were tied up, but he only ever mentioned their hands. We unfortunately, no, but the boys hands were tied to their feet, and that's what makes jesse's neck statement so inconsistent. The guilt refute the false confession narrative based on one admission. Jesse says that while Damien and Jason were quote unquote beating the hell out of the other two boys, Michael Moore ran away and Jesse chased down, brought him back and then left before the three boys were killed. Because a part of that is he had ever reason for being there and there was a that was the multiple killers angle. Was that how do you corral the kids? How do you keep them in the area? Right in order to kill all of them, they won't. They run. And so he now put himself as the goalie grooten where they can't. But they picked position into that because they were trying to work out in their own heads how the crime went out of all the mist of all misstatements. That was the one that screwed himself over the. Yeah, and they were. They were working on multiple killer angles from the beginning because the one thing that they did know is that the the hog ties the nuts in the shoelaces. There were multiple different kinds of nuts. Like they saw that the little boys were tied up with a different. It was just obviously tied up by different people. And that's partly how they brought Jason Bowen this because they're like, well, Damien Echols did it, but there are multiple, not. So he's got to have somebody there. So who else would be there? But Jason Baldwin? Do you remember that growing up as a boy when they tried to get us to like really be interested in knots? I just remember that teacher who's talking about not. I don't use knots now. Never not don't care about nuts, but they really want us to care about them. Well, let's not. And Cal. A Cumulus in for me to ever learn calculus. It never went. It didn't go in. I don't remember moment of trigonometry by definitely strategic, and I sat behind a very smart person and I was just telling up to peak over and look at his age. Now you go never know the answer. We win. Well, let's go through some. The logic on Jesse statements at the boys were tied up as they were found how the hell of the kids run away because their hands were tied to the feet. And if Jason and Damien were beaten, these kids up as bad as Jesse said they were, why weren't they covered in bruises? They weren't plus. It isn't rare in a false confession for suspect to create parts of the story themselves. In the aforementioned case, JoAnn Taylor, the woman who said she remembered everything. She said that she had suffocated the old woman with the pillow as an act of compassion. The cops didn't give her that she came up with that on her own. But this statement about chasing the boy down is what one juror in jesse's case said, was the clincher for guilty vote? 'cause yeah. 'cause he Jesse never said that he killed any of the boys. He said, his only part was chasing down Michael Moore, and that's partly because the cops kept saying that if he told them what they wanted to hear, he could go home. So basically he was just tiny from house of thousand corpses. It was just his job to go. Retrieve down one running away. Yeah, that's where he put himself into it and and celery position where he is not directly guilty of murder. Righties kid. Yeah, he is somehow worked as way into the story, right? But he also sort of his weight but distanced himself enough sane because he knew that he did not kill anybody, but he can say, maybe I did hold one. Yeah, baby. I could have done that when the cops still Jesse that he could go home. If you told the truth, Jesse believed him. Yeah, and he trusted them so much that after the interrogation was over, Jesse patiently sat in a jail cell figuring his dad would come pick him up once he got around to it. It is zero. Believably set. Yeah. No, they did the same thing with the the story I brought up with Kevin FOX, they, they shred up told him we would put you out on bond, basically built this narrative that you are. You killed your daughter by act. Accident. And once you sign all this shit, you'll go out on bond and he was immediately in jail for a year all the time. You watch those. You watch the programs when it comes to interrogation. I know you didn't. Jimmy around Kuby man. They say, I know you didn't do it. I know you didn't want to do it and then they slowly put you there and then you're screwed by the time Jesse was putting that sell. He'd been at the police station for eleven hours, and there were ways to test whether or not Jesse was telling the truth. All they had to do was take him out to the crime scene and have them welcome through the crime and they would easily seen how many inconsistencies there were there. Right? But they didn't do that because these men were tired, and even more than that, they finally had. They'd wanted all the long. Don't mess up a good thing Damien and Jason. So based on jesse's confession at nine. Oh six. That night the cops brought forth the evidence for an arrest warrant just as Jason and Damien were settling in Damian's trailer to watch leprechaun on VHS oddest ago. Say he also loved Texas, chainsaw massacre two. Yeah. Oh, so this is when we talk about released relating to him leprechaun's pretty. Don't movie Jennifer Aniston role of life. Great. Work Davis is just a phenomenon. He's this again, and guess what doing your leprechaun revamp? I thought that they were, but without Warrick fucking Dave. He might. He might be a little too old for it. At this point, I'm just gonna say ever fucking no. Conversation in the middle of west Memphis. But how scary would have been if he got that some from the police, but it was from the leopard. Oh, yeah. Here we go to me go. Really. Oh, I will say that leprechaun is a great example of being frugal. Bend your money, an hour later the cops burst inside and both of the boys were arrested on capital murder charges. And when the press asked Gary Guichard at the press conference, the next day, how strong he felt the case was against these kids how strong it was. On a scale of one to ten get, you'll said, eleven, it's it's not fucking spinal. It's not as most cases only go to ten right. It goes to eleven goes to. It's one guilty. Oh, he is. He was so smarmy, but also I get it. They were just trying to bring it home. I don't get it up. And of course later on natural get to this. But he does say that that was probably a mistaking everyone was in the heat of the moment. Yeah, but he looks so tired. Oh. Jason's mother asked the cops, what they had on her son. One of the detectives told her this. We've got a story that is very, very believable. It is so close to perfect. Now we have to believe. And of course the very next day jesse's confession leaked to the press and the entire town went nuts with stories about that boy Dame in. I wonder who leaked that to the prince, no way. Yup. They quoted boys who said Damian's house was haunted, and they'd seen ghosts code a girl who said she saw Damian drink blood ones, and they quoted a pastor who said he had never witnessed anyone ardor. And yet Damian had still rejected both the pastor and Christ himself. Unbelievable, Hoster witnessing, all horrid. I don't know, man, but they knew they had to do that. They knew they had to get public opinion on their side. Yep. Well, that's what we're going to learn that. That's what's pushes everything all the time and it will fuck it. Oh case one way or another. Look at Casey. Anthony did the opposite where it was they had a real back from everybody's saying that she was guilty that away. I mean to to revert it, can you imagine I know now we know that they, it was a massive injustice, but at the time in real time of Twitter existed, just think about the people what they would be saying about Damian to can just look at now. I mean, seriously, look at YouTube comments. The YouTube comments on anything like any interview with Damien Echols ninety percent of them is burning hell you fucking baby murder. You got away with murder. I mean, it is some vitriolic ship. People are just as pissed off about this now as they were back then. In fact, I mean, it got around back then that the genitals of Christopher buyers have been found in a glass jar Damian's trailer, and people still bring that shit up today on the internet. I saw people talking about this shit, right? As evidence of guilt. And that was just a rumor, and it was also by the way a rumor that probably came from the cops. This whole thing is it's because they'll motions are high also because of the nature of the crime or so, the idea of the strange evangelical stripe that still exists in this country that people are truly afraid of the devil, and they don't understand he will only help you get late. Well, I don't know if that's necessarily true leading buddy. It. Of course. I mean, the cops knew that they didn't have the little boys testicles fucking jar. In fact, they had no hard evidence at all. Go to that pastor apparently full hard what he does all that. So that is when they turn back to eight year old, Aaron Hutchison for more help. So now that the boys were caught suddenly earned said, oh yeah, then was the boys. It was in the woods at night and not only that he said, I'd I'd seen him do it. I saw do the whole thing's years old, eight years old. And he said, Yup, there was five of them, but I didn't know the other two now on, no, that that these three was these boys. And also they had black shirts with dragon zone them, and also mean, and nothing's e nothing is more evil than pick to'real 's of pewter figurines. And also bebop and rock steady. Were there. TM teenage mutant ninja turtles showed up. I like. I mean, don't get us wrong. We are not in any way, shape or form. Blaming the kid here victim and all these apps file. He's not. In fact, he was fucked up for years afterwards. That's what that's what his mother said. She said, that's what I regretted most about this because this boy had psychological problems for years. It completely fucked him up. This fun. I mean, the opposite of fun. It's like saying something's bad, but you mean is good. Very confusing to eighties father every what do you mean it's been opened? It's good. Okay. This was completely and totally the work of the detectives involved, particularly dawn brave because he'd already decided before. Aaron said that he'd witnessed the murders that this little boy watched the whole thing happened, so he's dry. He's in the driver's seat and Ahrends just follow along. Just ask how the hell did the kid get there? We're talking about in the middle of the woods right midnight. Why is an eight year old there? Well, no, that's he didn't even they didn't. They just didn't. And these kids, they would all play Robin Hood hills was where all the kids played and they'd stay there and tell dark and then they'd go home. And I guess they kind of Jews it around where they said that like, okay, well, I guess the kids got killed right before sundown or the kids got killed when it was still like a little bit light outside. But the thing is though is Erin Bray. Never testified. All Erin Bray was he was a little engine that drove them towards that drove them towards arrest. The little engine that could as a wonderful parable. If your intentions are good. A lot of people who really thought he could Adolf hit and that's a train that no one wanted to be on speaking of painters, George W Bush's still added. Oh, man, we really are turning to those old hippies. I'd like remember when you're a kid and like you'd mentioned Nixon like old hippies who get really angry and like Nixon was really funny to us. Same thing with this generation. I think he's skew. They think he's a doorman who likes to paint his feet and his bathtub. Favorite conversation is bringing up my favorite bar conversation is bringing W Bush. Got it. Gets people be eight, joy. In there. We have fun. So on June seventh nineteen Ninety-three the west Memphis, three were appointed their public defenders because these boys sure is fucked and have enough money to pay for their own defense teams Damian, he got bell price and Scott Davidson. Paul, Ford and Robin wadley were signed Jason and Jesse got Greg Crowe and dance to them. Next thing about trial is I get to nap enjoyed. Now, to me, stood him is easily the most interesting lower out all these, particularly because he was the only one who didn't abandon his client after the first trial was done, that guy is very, he was tried and true. Good man, very good man believes in the law. First of all, stem went into this case thinking Jesse was guilty as hell. As far as he was concerned, he was just there to broker a plea deal in exchange for testimony against the other two. But when stood them as Jesse to repeat the confession, he found that it wasn't the same confession that he'd read, and it's Jesse because Jesse kept getting shit wrong and stood them try. Again. It would be diff- whole different story from even the time before. Right Furthermore, stood him quickly realized that Jesse didn't even know what a lawyer was. It is. It's never good when the confession starts with the game of zip. Zap Zoff just get the improv low in your head. Imagine I'm a monkey right, and you know the monkey zoo. Okay. Okay. Now your job is your funny cute. Little monkey bananas. Do do you also help murder three little boys. Yeah. I mean, Jesse, he knew that lawyers existed, but he didn't know what they actually did. Jesse thought his lawyer was another cop you another detect on might as well might as well have been at this point. I'm no white. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's tough. And then it got even deeper stood him was visiting Jesse one day and Jesse asked him out of the blue who sat in was stood him had no idea what Jesse was talking about suggests he handed over a pamphlet that a preacher had given him regarding the dangers of Satan. So here was Steadham sitting in a jail cell with what was supposed to be a confessed satanic killer in Jesse, didn't even know who the fuck Satan was man. Oh, man. Yeah, nights like this factoid to which is really said he'd even know who Bill Clinton was no in this is nineteen Ninety-three this is the year after Bill Clinton went from governor of Arkansas, took president of the United States. Everybody in Arkansas knew who Bill Clinton was. Honestly, a lot of people call them, Satan. Should I was that was back when everyone would bet back when people were still on the Clinton trained folks in Arkansas. I'm pretty sure upset with the democrat. Oh yes. Some of them definitely were, but, but this was long before the Clintons became the the boogeyman of American politics that same time he was doing his and drugs and money with the CIA allow them to fly in Arkansas. That shit, it's fun. It's fun. Yeah, it's a whole other episodes. Yeah, we absolutely cut. So stood in pretty quickly realized that maybe this kid didn't do it. Meanwhile, Damion was still pulling his Goth kid. Bullshit. He told the police that he'd tell him everything he knew about the murders, but it only tell it to his mother. So the cops setup all this audio and video. They're ready for a confession. They bring in the mother. And then when she asked him what he knew, he just looked at her and said nothing. And when you think about setting up equipment from nineteen Ninety-two ladies and gentlemen, you gotta remember, that's a lot of wires. A lot of work. A lot of hundred pounds of really TV was like two hundred pounds. It was. That was a lot of work those people. So this kind of fun. That's set your puck and oh, I mean, it makes me angry. I see a kid doing it was like, honestly. This bullshit. A good friend of mine's move. I think it's, I think it's quite humorous. See both Damien and Jason thought that there was no way in hell that they could ever be convicted of these crimes. In fact, like when they talk to each other, they're like this is supposed to be talking to suspect to write like they're laughing about all this. And you can see in paradise lost that they're sitting like before the trial, and they're joking with each other. And you can tell like they don't really take it seriously. I mean, Jason, he took it pretty seriously, but Damian he just kept putting up Goth kid front and then so you got to remember the context is that they murdered three people see them laughing, just plays that narrative that they're Solis. They go back to time and time again Damian, say island, he's blowing kisses to the grieving families during the hearings which is. I mean, it was hideous dumbest thing, but he could've done. Yes, of course. He just doesn't know because again, they're like, we're innocent. Yeah, you don't nothing going to happen to us. We're innocent like, what can they have on us? They don't do anything. And then you like, oh shit, they could say anything they want. I didn't know that. He didn't. He didn't go full. Michael Jackson show up in his pajamas. Also didn't dress really well either or show respect for the court. But again, he just didn't imagine that such an injustice could occur. If you wanna hear one of the great ironies of the case, Jason Baldwin had faith in God that he wouldn't go to jail. He had faith in God in his God in the Christian God that this couldn't happen to him that God didn't let things like that happen. Well, sometimes God goes the fucking sleep best. Well, all a Damian's, Goth. Bullshit. That might be why the cases judge David Burnett had such a hard on for these boys. You really judge Burnett who oversaw both trials and almost every trial after the originals. He's what you call real piece of work. He looks like rising -ly orange hair yet. Honestly, he has the same hair as a LEGO. You can see him, snap it on in the morning. No. Before the case, judge Burnett said in preparation, he'd read a book on satanism quote, for information purposes, tell you what I locked. The covers a thing I'll learn about. Honestly, to be honest, I've never heard about this before is autumn clothing, cold, a pasty. Seem to really enjoy seem to really enjoy it while he should have been reading the constitution plus how how? How constitution everyday all day. You're gonna fuck it. Fall asleep while you're driving this reading the constitution. Not only was that the extent of his preparation, the other thing, and this other thing really fucked over Jesse. Judge Burnett didn't believe that psychiatrists psychologists had any business being in a courtroom. In fact, that was the whole subject of his judicial master's degree that he was working on. That he was working on while the trials were taking place. It's always nice when the when the judge is also dabbling in Scientology. You reference psychologists that caused nothing but doubt. That's what I don't want. I don't want need any doubt sewed in there in this life sentence slash death sentence case, right? Yeah. I mean, this guy, he did everything he could to stymie the defense, put the boys away and keep them locked up forever. It's like you read a book on how to be a bias judge. Yeah, you went by the book and he kept it going for a well almost two decades. He's still doesn't Italy. He doesn't admit to help poor ably of job to know when an I'll tell you what stymie was also my least favorite little routes mostly because I think it was a mistake to just have a little rascal whose whole personality was having colon cancer. Oh man. That's why you gotta have the soapbox derby with some money, their own timing because I've never shit. For example, I mean concerning how much judge Burnett really fucking hate these boys. He cited judicial economy as far as how many trials they were gonna have. So he ruled that there was going to be two trials one for Jesse and one for Jason and Damien. This was wildly unfair to Jason because the only evidence they had against him was jesse's confession at least the only evidence time. That's all the. By including Jason and Damien together the jury. They were going to hear all that Goth shit that the defense was going to bring up concerning Damien. They had none of that shit on Jason because you know his bullshit as the softball confession was and all the other shit, like all the things that Damian told the cops like that shouldn't have been heard in Jason's trial at all. And of course, as as Chevy Chase said in the film dirty work, when he bet against rocky any bed, Mr. t to win hindsight is twenty twenty. Confession the way they ended in stuff. People really took that confession seriously? Yeah. If Jason had gotten a trial all on his own, it's much likelier that he would have walked free. I mean, not certain, but he would have had a lot better chance, right? But months after the arrest investigators found what they needed to link Jason to the crime. See the prosecution had been searching for months after the arrests for any sorta hard evidence. The best they come up with was a couple of sticks that get. You'll have plucked out of the forest that were in the general vicinity of where the bodies were discovered and get tools like, well, they could have been used in commission of the crime. Maybe just picking up stick out asleep just like we're just picking upstairs another stick. That's evidence. This is got to straight up heft enough to kill a boy with or you can make table. Carpenters involved, but all that changed on November seventeenth. According to John Fogelman, the prosecuting attorney, he'd had quote, unquote, a hunch that there might be something of interest in the small lake behind Jason's trailer. This hunch was so strong in fact that the cops called up the local media to document the dive and low, and behold, after only thirty minutes and the murky water, the diver found a big ole combat knife and the next day's front-page feature to picture of that diver. Hold it up for everyone to see. And the headline was just not a stick, but also evidence. Do you think that they day did thing where when he said like I have a hunch and then could he take a big like genies turban, like Johnny Carson, you put it on me. Like I think there's something in the. Like. Well, I'm sure we'll tell the story of all that went down right now. This begs the question, how the fuck did this diver find a knife at the bottom of the lake after only thirty minutes? I'm going to say how the f. the diver fine go from this. The h. e. double hot. Tonight a lake. What is he? Is he the Arthur with this is the fact that he found the night. So fast implies that someone told him where look which implies they had an informant. And if they had an informant than it stands to reason that this informant would have been devastating witness for the prosecution, but no, such informant was called to the stand. That's because the person who had told Fogelman about the knife have been Jason's mother and the reason why she'd known just about where it can be found was because she'd thrown it in herself about a year before. For you know how upset Jason was. You know how set that that afternoon was when she was taking your copy at not not wrote it in the light. More. Also, Mona four. God did enough exhibit used to go and just toss it in the Layton unbelieveab-. He thought the detective. This purpose knew all this. You knew it to be a diver though. Really easy day. I mean, the prosecution. They actually got pretty lucky with a knife because the knife had a serrated edge and the medical examiner had said from the very beginning that the wounds on the boy could have only come from a knife with the serrated edge. And the medical examiner is just slightly worse than the head doctor from reanimator just slightly man. What are you talking about? He'd he kept ahead alive and body. Talking about west talking about the bad, the bad toot. The head and the body and remember the the body, they never explain how the fricken body can move with rate, no science, it's science pass what we understand. So it's great science, bad goal. He did try to eat that women's posted, honestly, that's very problematic. Yeah, but we'll get into just how devastatingly wrong. The assumption that serrated knife was used along with plenty of other errors and flat out lies as we cover the trials of the west Memphis, three and the aftermath of those trials on the conclusion to our series. Yep. Yep. And I tell you what happens when you assume you know what happened? What do you do you make and ask? No, no things get fucked. She runs into a fucking ditch in Europe. Fuck and skeleton. Yeah, 'grats fucking piece of shit. Yeah, errors in lies. Simple saying yours lies also sounds like a horrible like prank show airs in lines Ayers. Yeah. Awesome. All right. Well, that is we're beginning to see the railroad job that heard there in west Memphis, Arkansas. And also I would love to think caroliina for all of the amazing work that she contributed to the research for all the false confession stuff on it. So thank you very much. Thank you caroliina and listen to all of her programs movie signs with the mad squin- some gray squealers son squint. A squin- sung is stone. Great. They just if I'm working on his day, if you speak Spanish, it's the show for you. They just did a two part series on Richie balance and the day the music died, even though I can't listen to the show because I don't understand Spanish hearing all about it in the house. And it was very interesting. I'll tell you what she's been saying some pretty mean things about. He's a Spanish is Spanish expert? Very, very lingual. Oh, I've seen the signs, right? Everyone is so good deep into the season. Again, send your creepy pasta stories to side stories l. p. o. t. l. g. mail dot com. We're building up towards the Halloween season, gang three. Oh. Baking oughta, get spooky with it. Yes, thank you all so much for listening. Thank you so much for giving to our patriot. We really appreciate that without you none of this possible and you've allowed us to just have little family here we, we were just talking about this. The other day lucky we were such are we are to have such great fans, and it's just us just so nice to deal with the corporate elites fucking everything that shit. All they want us to do is suck their Dixon be a part of their fucking weird ads, Baheen grove style parties, but we won't go there yet because we we're not. We're not good at keeping secrets. Honestly, we're just bad at keeping real bad. We're gonna see your fucking asses in Indy Indiana, and then we're going to be seeing you very soon in Chicago. We're coming to your actually. Chicago is all sold out. Yeah, circum- goes completely sold out, but we're coming to a bunch of places coming up in November in the beginning of December, specifically