20 Episode results for "Roman Republic"
Mavericks & Legends: Livia Drusilla
"Hello from Wonder Media Network. I'm Jenny Kaplan and this is encyclopedia. Were MANICA. Today's legend was one of the most powerful women in the Roman Empire as wife of Emperor Stas and his most important political adviser. She built it considerable influence on the workings of the Empire. Even while living in the shadow of her powerful husband she used her considerable skills and potentially significant amount of scheming and treachery to ensure that her descendants rose to power. Please welcome Livia. Drew Silla Livia. Jerusalem was born on January thirtieth in either the year fifty eight or fifty nine BC. Probably in the city of Rome. Her father. Marcus viest RUSSA's cloudiness was a senator in the Roman republic and a member of the powerful off family beyond this very little is known about Libya's early life when Livia was fifteen or sixteen years old. Her father arranged marriage between Livia and her cousin. The Roman politicians TIBERIUS CLAUDIUS NERO A YEAR. Later in forty see. She gave birth to a son named Tiberius. At that time there was a lot going on in Rome and particularly in Roman politics following the assassination of Julius Caesar and Forty Four B. C. E. There were a number of players fighting for power. Livia husband and father sided with Julius Caesar's assassins against the Forces of Caesar's adopted son Octavian soon to be known as Augusta's and Mark. Antony this fighting culminated at the battle of Philip. By and forty two CE with the victory by Octavian and Mark Antony Forces lluvias father committed suicide at by but her husband continued fighting in order to avoid punishment for supporting the losing side Livia and her family fled Rome and forty BC. I living in Sicily and then moving to crease a year later general. Amnesty was declared allowing Livia her husband and young son Tiberius to return to Rome upon her return. Livia Matt Octavian for the first time in thirty nine you see. The story goes Octavian fell in love with her. At first sight Octavian who was already married quickly divorced his wife the day after she gave birth to his daughter. Julia. Libya's husband was also forced into a divorce. Even though his wife was six months pregnant with their second child at the beginning of thirty eight you see the newly divorced Livia gave birth to a son named Druce just a few days later. She Octavian remarried in a weird twist. Her first husband played the role of father and gave her away at the wedding. Whether or not this was truly a love match. It was certainly politically savvy marriage as it united two of the most powerful. Roman families three years into the marriage. Octavian Livia the power to rule over her own finances which at the time was unprecedented in Rome and was an incredible show of trust and respect. This freedom allowed her to form her own political alliances and to help proteges. Favorites RISE THROUGH THE POLITICAL RANKS. Octavian also had a public statue erected and dedicated to his wife following a triumphant victory at the battle of axiom in thirty one B. C. E. Over his once ally. Mark Antony and Cleopatra Octavian consolidated singular power over the Roman Empire on January Sixteenth Twenty seven BC e the Roman Senate Octavian the honorary title of Gustis. The name by which he would be known going forward and handed him unlimited governing power over Rome under the title. I citizen of the state to be clear. Augusta's was the first Roman emperor but because of political sensitivity surrounding the death of the Roman Republic. He chose not to use any title. That might suggest a monarchy from the start. Livia was a highly supportive partner to Augustus. Both as a wife and his a political strategist. It was well known amongst the Roman political class that she wielded significant influence over affairs of state she was also considered to be generous and convinced. Augusta's to be the same particularly when it came to the treatment of his opponents. The Roman public saw her as the epitome of a proper Roman Lady Role Model. She and Augusta's made a point of modeling approved behavior. I living and dressing relatively modestly and maintaining a proper Roman household as supportive as Livia was of her husband. Her primary concern was ensuring that one of her two sons from her first marriage succeeded. Augusta's emperor she and Augusta's had no children together. Augusta's did have one child from his previous marriage. His daughter Julia and Julia had three sons. Who were in line for the throne ahead of Libya's sons since they were direct blood descendants Livia was ultimately successful in her goal but whether it was a matter of good fortune or outright scheming and intrigue somewhat murky I her second son. Druce died in battle in nine BC e then into to e one of August. Is's grandsons died from while in Gaul and just two years later. Another grandson died in battle. Finally Augusta's last grandson was exiled when he was still young and eventually executed leaving. Libya's eldest son Tiberius as the lone air though Augustus. His grandsons died abroad. Rumors spread. That Livia had arranged their deaths. While Libya's eldest son Tiberius had distinguished himself on the battlefield and enrollment politics. He did not have a good relationship with his stepfather. Augustus and always felt that he was treated poorly by him. Part of this may have been a result of Tiberius is extremely stormy. Forced marriage to Augusta's daughter Julia. A move made by Livia to ensure type areas as legitimacy is air. The marriage was so bad in fact the Tiberius self exile to roads in six P. C. E. supposedly to get away from his wife returning to Rome. Eight years later in four. Livia finally saw her work to fruition. When Augusta's officially adopted Tiberius who was in his forties at the time with the adoption Tiberius became the official heir to the throne on August Nineteenth Fourteen C E. Augustus died while he and Livia were away from Rome. Some dispute the state of death believing that Augusta's had died days earlier but that Livia put off making the announcement until Tiberius could return to Rome to ensure his ascent historians over. The years have suggested that Livia may have also had a hand in her husband's death claiming that she fed him poisoned figs following Augusta's death Tiberius became emperor he quickly tired of his mother's influence and meddling and removed her from politics. Some believe that when he eventually left Rome to live in Capri. It was an order to get even further from his mother. Livia died in twenty nine Ce. She was eighty six years old. Whether Livia was involved in the deaths of her stepsons and husband remains unclear. What is clear is that Livia wielded considerable influence over Augusta's and the formation of the early Roman Empire. She used her power and political skill. Help her husband rule Rome all while working diligently to ensure it was her own line. Who would succeed him all? May We're talking about Mavericks and LEGENDS FOR MORE ON. Why we're doing what we're doing check out our newsletter. Manica weekly you can also follow us on facebook and INSTAGRAM AT ENCYCLOPEDIA. Will Manica and you can follow me. Directly on twitter at Jenny Kaplan special. Thanks to lose Kaplan my favorite sister and Co Creator and special. Thanks to all the maniacs out there to join our brand new membership program go to glow DOT FM slash Lamonica. It really means a lot to us. Go be supporting the work. That goes into encyclopedia. Amanda and you'll get special access to weekly live events. Go to glow DOT FM slash will Manteca Talk to you tomorrow.
Rome Exchanged Freedom For Autocracy. Is The U.S. Headed Down That Path?
"This message comes from on point sponsor, indeed if you're hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started at indeed dot com slash NPR podcast. From WBU are Boston NPR. I'm David Folkenflik in. This is on point to walk around. The federal part of Washington DC is to a team constant glimpses of ancient Rome. There's the fiscal seat of all three branches of government the White House. The supreme court building the US capital the national archives. The all draw inspiration from Roman architecture, the very name of the US Senate taken from Rome, and that's no accident the founding fathers of this country looked to Rome for inspiration. Not the empire the Republic for hundreds of years, the Roman Republic flourished based on checks and balances compromise an annual votes, but by one hundred and thirty before the communist era Romans were losing faith in the system and the center could not hold my guest today. An historian and author says all is not well within our current political system and in order to move forward. We must look back this hour on point the end of the Roman Republic as cautionary tale. Join us what questions do you have about the Roman repub-? And how it affected our form of government? What lessons can be applied to our modern day. Join us anytime it on point Reto dot org or Twitter and Facebook ad on point radio. I'm really excited for our guest with us from LA Hoya, California's Edward watts. He's a professor of history at the university of California, San Diego and past director of the center for studies there, his new book is mortal Republic, how Rome fell into Turney Edward. Thanks for joining us today. Thanks, david. I'm really happy to be here. You know, you right at the very end of your book not to give away the ending, but you write Rome's Republic than died because it was allowed to its death was not Neville. It could have been avoided and you say when citizens take the health and durability if the Republic for granted that Republic is risk. This was as true in one hundred one thirty three BC or eighty two or forty four BC as it is in eighty two thousand eighteen or nineteen in ancient Rome in the modern world. A Republic is a thing to be cherished protected and respected if it falls an uncertain dangerous and destructive future lies on the other side. I wanna keep. That in mind. But I, you know, I think a lot of people there movies made about ancient Rome, their TV shows that are great, you know, thrillers, Robert Harris, all kinds of books written about this. And yet we often think of it in terms of the empire and much less about the time of the Republic room had a five hundred year Republic preceded by kingdom and followed by that famous empire. I guess one of the first question I wanna ask you to dress. His how did the Republic emerge in what what problem was it solving? Yeah. I think that's a great question. I mean, I think that the the great thing about Roman history. Is you have a tremendous amount of it. That's state survives for over twenty two hundred years and the last fifteen hundred of it it is an empire. And that's what we tend to think about, but the Republic was very significant sort of segment of Roman history. And it's a five hundred year period in which Rome, emerges from basically, a sort of small city state into a state that controls nearly the entire Mediterranean. And the basic idea behind that Republic was Rome coming out of the end of its monarchy had assist them in which there were certain elite families that needed to figure out how they wanted to effectively govern this territory in a way where they shared power with each other. But very quickly it became clear that this was not something that the general sort of Roman society would accept and for about two hundred years in the Republic, you have a sort of broadening of the number of people who are sort of taking that effective role in dictating policy until you reach about the two eighties. When the Republic takes probably what we would call. It's it's sort of well highest four in that moment, what you have is a system in which basically every male citizen has a voice in what's going on with. Let's not let's look Paul one sec, though, tell me why it was that. There was a transition from the kingdom of room. Like, you know, there was. A kingdom. Why did it then go to go? You know, why did it? They need to make transfer to to to what you're describing here the evolution of some sort of participatory system. Well, it's when the Roman monarchy starts what it seems like it functioned as was basically a sort of elected monarchy where members of the elite families would come together and choose one of their own to be king, and that person would serve as long as he was alive. And then it would go back to the elite families, but the last kings didn't actually ever take the choice back to the elite families. And so the monarchy became something that was out of the control of those elite families, and the initial sort of pushed to the Republic was these elite family saying we want to take back power. And we don't even want to king at all. Instead, we're going to create a system where our voices are basically collectively determining what's happening in the state and the reaction to that came from people who did have a seat at the table when the monarchs were there. But didn't when this new sort of political structure was created, and what you see throughout the sort of first couple centuries of the Republic is that base of who needs to have their voices. Listen to expanse. You know, progressively until basically all male citizens have a voice that is in some way being channeled through representatives in that Republic and the key part of that Republic is it is never designed. So that every one of those voices is equal. It's not a democracy. It's instead a Representative system in which everybody has a voice to choose the people who will actually make decisions and that will be able to sort of render judgment on the behavior and conduct of those people when they're of office is up in the book. There is a crazy quilt of checks and balances I mean, you're not talking three branches of government. You're talking a lot of them. And it seems as though there's there per mutations. Never Lucians at a certain point, you know, expanded from Romans to include a talion like there's there's a bunch of different folks, you know, those who are governed outside this the city state of Rome itself, there's a bunch of different voices there. But really looking at Rome itself and understanding it's it's. Males in Rome. But, you know, they're slaves, and they're all kinds of other classes of people looking at Rome itself. It's fascinating to see what you're describing is this exp. It's expansion of the franchise in some way, the expansion of voice in some way. Can you give us a feel for what checks and balances looked like in the Roman Republic? So there were some legal checks and balances, but most of these checks and balances were sort of understood norms in the same way that we you know, we function in a way where a lot of our checks and balances are legal and a lot of the things that restrain conduct are also just norms. So in in Rome, for example, the Senate is legally empowered to do very little, but it renders judgment, and it sort of gives advice on just about every sort of piece of legislation that's coming through. And generally speaking for most of the history of the Republic when the Senate said this was a good idea people tended to listen and the representatives and people when they voted on these things tended to sort of follow the advice of the Senate, but they weren't legally oblige. To do that. They just did. Because that was how things were done seen just seen as disruptive to not not take that into account. It was seen as. Yeah. Breaking with the pattern that had created stability and functionality in a state that in ancient terms was incredibly successful. And I think this is part of the thing that Americans probably can take away from from the Roman lesson Romans came to see that their state had succeeded. You know, the the Roman Republic by the time. It starts reaching these crises in the second century was far and away the most successful state in the Mediterranean, probably that the Mediterranean really had ever seen in a sort of functional way. And so they began to sort of a sumo that this was how things should work, and these unwritten norms were sort of for a long time supported by the fact that they seemed like they were working, you know, they seemed like they were governing system that was functioning very well, remind do one favor doing one two Redwood. Mind who it is that the that the the Senate is advising or is providing a check on even through this norm who are exercising. The major decisions of how Rome is run and how how its holdings are governed. So every year there's a series of elections to elect magistrates who hold everything from, you know, control over the weights and measures in the marketplace to proposing legislation to conducting military campaigns, most of these figures have to interact with the Senate when there's a policy decision that has to be made. And they they seek advice from the Senate. And generally they tend to not pursue. A course if it's not endorsed by the Senate, but their functions vary. So there are people caught tribunes of the plebs who represent a certain segment of Roman society. Basically, everyone who's not of the hereditary restock recy-, and they propose laws in an assembly that's voted on by by Romans, you know, by by gender. Romans regular Romans. But generally speaking, if those laws are not sanctioned by the Senate, if the Senate doesn't approve of those laws, they aren't voted on. They don't go forward. They aren't sort of brought to the point where they can be implemented to the Senate has this effective sort of ability to to render its opinion in a way that's meaningful and generally respected, and you have these councils figures, right who are enormously powerful. And yet they were twinned. So that my recollection was does that one could always veto a decision by the other. Yeah. This is the basic principle of Roman magistrates everyone with the exception of an emergency office called the dictatorship. Every single one of them is at least paired and every single one of them is subject to a veto by their by their twin by their pair. And the idea there is basically to create a sort of understanding that it's better to do nothing than to do the wrong thing and. It's better to do nothing than to do something that has a very narrow base of support. And so the whole system is geared towards this idea of promoting consensus by encouraging compromise. And if you haven't compromised enough to bring about consensus, you can't do anything, and you need to keep talking and keep working and keep trying to promote some kind of consensus that can go through without receiving a veto from your your fellow magistrate. We've only got about a minute so left but sketch out the kinds of challenges that these guys were having to find these consensus on, you know, remind us of what the evolving Republic had to address and brief amount of time just broadcast. So basically, what we understood what we have to understand what the Republicans it starts something basically the size of Rhode Island, and when it ends its nearly the size of the United States. And so the Republic hostak in front these problems of how you expand dramatically and allocate resources in a way that's fair and equitable. We are discussing the Republic of ancient Rome in the lessons. It holds for a Republic today. We hope for you to join our conversation. What questions do you have about these roots of Representative government? What can we do as citizens to preserve the system? We've got what inspiration? Do you think the founding fathers turned to them? I'm talking with Edward watts of the university of California at San Diego and his book, mortal Republic, how Rome fell into Turney. I'm David Folkenflik in. This is on point. This message comes from on points sponsor, indeed when it comes to hiring. You don't have time to waste you need help getting to your shortlist of qualified candidates fast with indeed toast, a job in minutes. Set up screener questions then zero in on qualified candidates. And when you need to hire fast, accelerate your results with sponsor jobs. New users can try for free when you sign up at indeed dot com slash NPR, podcast, terms, conditions, and quality standards apply. Human behaviour doesn't always make a ton of sense at least on the surface. I said, would you mind the fight give the dogs a little piece of cracker with some hot sauce on and without and see what they choose hidden brain a spicy podcast about science psychology. And why people do what they do. This is on point. I'm David Folkenflik. We're discussing the fall of the Roman Republic. You can join our conversation. What parallels? Do you hear the modern age what differences strike you as more important? Follow us on Twitter and find some Facebook ad on point radio. I'm talking with university of California, San Diego historian, Edward watts and his new book mortal Republic how Rome fell into tyranny and Boyer Wiegand calls. I'd like to take one first from Tampa, Florida. Jim go ahead. What what's your question for Edward? I I had a question and I wanted to get his take on it womanhood tree, and is kind of a subject of interest to me and particularly listen like Mike Duncan's history of room. But what I wanted to ask was is how he felt that you know, Rome during the Punic wars. It's it's it's winning of wars against Hannibal and everything and the expansion and wealth coming into the empire, and it's it's an equal distribution among its citizens. You know, how that helped lead to the rise of populism with the grat guy brothers, and and ultimately Caesar and the end of the Republican how that compares to our own times. And I personally think that that our Republic will survive this that it's it's less of a tribulation and other ones we faced. But I wanna know what differences between us in Rome might help sustain us where where Rome didn't survive as thanks so much for that. Jim won't professor what let's talk a little bit about that the Punic wars. How did that expand? Or was that part of the expansion of both the rooms wealth is Jim about and also how did that help, you know, lead to a rise in sort of populous strains among political figures of the Roman Republic at that time? Yeah. I mean, that's a that's a wonderful question. I think that what we see in the aftermath of Punic wars rum, of course, defeats Carthage. And then a lot of resources become come begin to come into the Roman state in ways that Rome begins to figure out how to process and one of the things that emerges in the middle. Part of the second century is a financial sector in Rome where you have buying and selling of loans in a way, that's not dissimilar to what we had say the United States with the the subprime mortgage crisis. Whether it does is it produces a tremendous amount of wealth, very quickly that becomes concentrated at the top rung of the Roman economic strata. And this. This for about a generation the Republic struggles to figure out how to deal with this after about a generation of this when the sort of prospects of people in the middle are stagnating and the fortunes of the Roman one percent are really sort of continuing to accelerate. You have an emergence of a sort of populist strain that looks to address in some ways the tangible consequences of this. But it also looks to address the emotional consequences of this this feeling of disempowerment on this feeling that the system can actually respond affectively to their needs. It takes about a generation from the sort of beginning of this wealth gap to the moment where Romans become really willing to listen to this kind of way of of promoting change. But once it's in the Roman system, it continues to sort of come back as a strain of Roman political discussion through basically, what ends up a century later. In the wars that the conclude the Republic, but I think the question of what's different about the United States from Rome. You know, I think that we can see some similarities to what's going on in Rome in the second century with what's going on now. But what I would say is why we can't yet say the United States has reached a point like Rome was in the forties BC when you have Julius Caesar, and you have Pompey, and you have Mark Antony and the civil wars that ultimately lead to the to the empire the process by which Rome got to that point took a very long time. You know, the problem start emerging in the second century the empire as. Let's be clear that's the second century before the combinator before what we signed the birth of crisis being cracked second century BC and the empire emerges as a solution to these problems in thirty. So it's a very long process of trying to sort of figure out these problems in a Republican context before ultimately Romans effectively turn away. We've got a call now from Omaha Nebraska James, thanks for calling in. Hi, I would love to explore more this concept of how the Republic was enrolling Bill to provide for consumers in my area. For example. The US Senate has the filibuster which is meant to limit the -bility just to make a ad hoc choices, there's a call these days to eliminate the for the BUSTER, so we can make more decisions quicker in our congress seeming to bypass ideas, consensus, can you export some more of those reflective ideas. Now, the people in Rome wanted consensus. Thanks so much for that. Call James Edward t tell us a little bit about the way in which. As James asks the way in which decisions were made done. We're reached consensus was achieved. And yet the way in which perhaps the population dinner didn't feel that their sentiment was absorbed into that process. Yeah. I think that again, man, that's a it's a wonderful thing to think about because the Republic has a lot of mechanisms that are legal, but not also, but also informal that promote this consensus, the legal mechanisms are things like the paired magistrates where your colleague can veto what you want to do. And if he does it doesn't happen. And so you have to propose legislation and basically come up with a policy that has this broad support or it won't go anywhere, and that's a legal mechanism, but the formal mechanisms are things like getting the Senate to sign onto something. And so if a Representative wanted to propose legislation and the Senate felt that would be too disruptive. The Senate would say so and then in, you know, formerly you could still bring it to a vote, but informally it it just wouldn't really be a good idea. It would be seen as something that was basically promoting division in a way that Romans really tended to not appreciate or tolerate. I wanna ask you a little bit about why the American founding fathers, turn their eyes to Rome. There are other models. We were more closely linked to to Europe, particularly Britain. Why did why did they look back at Rome and its Representative Republic as opposed to other possible models? I think there's a couple of reasons I mean, the British the British system and the British experienced certainly did influence what they were looking at. But there also is a a very sort of robust political theorizing of why the Republic, succeeded and agreed author in polygamous in essence takes Plato's idea of a Republic in which there are sort of different elements that sort of buttress each other and prevent the degeneration of the state and said in essence, this is what Rome has has brought about and this really influence, the founders as a principal for sort of stable way to govern to govern. A state the other thing that I think particular peeled to them as the Republic was a constitutional model that could be scaled up the, you know, it started as a city state, but it functioned very effectively also as an entity that governed millions of people in Italy, what it was able to do was command, and basically create this sort of process of consensus building both as a sort of small entity. But also as a large entity, and I think the founders would have looked at this as something that was particularly desirable, given the size of the early United States. And also the diversity of interests across it, a Republican model could do what they were envisioning the United States would do and it could continue to scale up as the United States expanded. And I think that's an important lesson. I soon presumably, you know, it's been a lot of years, but, you know, thinking back to the Greek system of democracy from my from my school days, the idea of having a participatory democracy where. Everyone had a vote much harder to scale up. You can do that in small townships New England harder to do throughout all the colonies and beyond. Exactly. And the other thing that I think's important to keep in mind is, you know, we when we talk about what our system is shorthand, we use a democracy. It's a Representative democracy, and it's a Republic, and the founders would have been horrified to think that the model that we like to associate with is classical Athens, you know, the sort of birthplace of democracy in the popular minds. They would see that as horrid. Now, they did not believe that everybody's voice was equal. And they did not want decisions made in a way where everybody's voice counted equally. They wanted those voices to be filtered through representatives. And so the Roman system is particularly appealing. If what you're looking to do is channel popular voices through people who you see as perhaps more responsible than regular people. Speaking of scaling up. We have a call from New Orleans Louisiana, obviously part of the. Louisiana purchase. Julia. Your question of for for for Mr Watts. Hi, yes. I'm a climate reporter based here in Edward would you reflect on the role climate, instability and environmental degradation played out in the sixth century with tribal migration and the impact on the fall of Rome specifically as it's related to insights, the can provide to climate change today and its potential impacts on immigration and political stability in both Europe and the United States. Julia. And boy, I love our audience. Let me just tell you that what you say. So the the sixth century AD takes us pretty far beyond the Republic. But I think what you see is you you can actually map some of the successes and challenges that the Roman state faces across it's two thousand your history on sort of things that show climate instability. And so, you know to give a couple examples in the Republican period. There is a political structure that really comes out of the aftermath of Alexander, the great that's greatly disrupted around the year two hundred BC because of Canada eruptions that effect. In essence, the amount of precipitation falling in in Africa. This depletes the amount of food in Egypt increases, the amount of food available in Syria, and it completely destabilizes the Mediterranean in a way that allows Rome to move into that space by the time you get into the sixth century AD. There's a very dramatic shift in the way the climate is functioning there is instead of climatic terms a period when the Roman empire is at its most successful period around say the second century, a d where the conditions are incredibly favorable for distributing precipitation, and creating kind of food supplies in the areas where the Romans most concentrate their food production by the time, you get into the sixth century that climate state has changed. It's become colder and the distribution of food is you know, it's it's less advantageous to the Romans. And what you have our political shocks that are that hit. The Roman empire in ways that are not totally dissimilar to what you see sort of destabilizing the world around two hundred BC, the Roman empire is more robust than some of those Hellenistic kingdoms, and it doesn't have a competitor that can jump right in and entered of take the spot that it had occupied in the way, the Roman Republic is able to do in the eastern Mediterranean, but those shocks in the sixth century were really dramatic. They change everything from settlement patterns to you know, populations of urban centers. And ultimately, I suppose one could argue, you know, really sort of forced the Roman empire to deal with allocations of resources in ways that it really didn't expect what you you a bit about this. But what institutions in particular what norms? Would we recognize today in our system of government? And our the way we expect our society to function. I think that in in the Republic, the very basic idea. And I think if you asked Romans when if very basic successes, the Republic has is it sets up political contests as something where you know, what's at stake. You know, basically, what the rewards will be if you're successful. And you know, what the consequences will be if you lose and those rewards will never result in absolute victory, and the consequences will never result in being imprisoned or dying. And that's the basic promise that I think the United States Republic is generally able to make as well. But what that means is politicians who know what's at stake also are able to basically sort of make decisions about what is a proportionate way to respond to a challenge, politically and that beans, they don't tend to want to use violence to to pursue a political end. Because that that's something the system really doesn't. Mitt. It's something that doesn't tolerate and it's extremely dangerous. And I think for three hundred years, the Roman Republic is able to do that, you know, it's able to make that basic promise to the people who participate, politically, you know, that that violence will not be used against you. You will not be imprisoned for taking a political position. Your property will not be taken away from you. But instead you're free to sort of function as an individual whose voices matter the last century of the Roman Republic that promise erodes and eventually collapses. Oh, man. Reading your book and the page of your book is like a catalogue of ways in which that just gets exploded for both the politicians and for the for the citizens. Yeah. It starts with the politicians in one thirty three's the first political assassination that you have in Rome and more than three centuries. This is the assassination of the populist politicians. Heavier SCR office who I think one of the callers had mentioned earlier, but what starts as basically the murder of a politician and a few of his sort of most. Strongly associated followers within one hundred years will result in basically sort of executions of people who are affectively civilians and the confiscation of the property of entire cities that are seen as does loyal. And so what starts as violence in a political context against political actor eventually becomes violence that sort of cascades to to sort of encompass an effect everybody. That's I think the real danger of Republic falling you know, violence sort of enters the political arena. It doesn't just stay there. It will eventually sort of spill out in ways that are incredibly destructive dangerous and horrifying to everybody who's living in that space at we've only got about two minutes left for the next break. We do all know about the murder of Julius Caesar from Shakespeare and elsewhere, but you know, tick off for us a couple more specific red flags about the unraveling of the Republic that people in wretched. Spector even at the time could have noticed. So I think the the biggest issue that really changes this dynamic from political assassinations in a political context to actions against civilians is the emergence of sort of recruitment of soldiers who are given bonuses because of the political skill of their commanders. And what that does is it creates armies that are technically an an officially the property of the Roman state, you know, people serving their country, but those people are actually more loyal to the commander who is going to get them rewards, and ultimately, you know, provide for them, then they are to Rome, and what you see in the eighties BC is a commander tell his army to March on Rome because Rome is doing something that personally disadvantages him. That's the moment that I think I'll Romans look at and say this person has been able to take a state resource and a state monopoly on violence and turn it against that state and something serious. Wrong when that's possible and doing it for personal advantage or to protect personal standing exactly we're discussing what ancient Rome can teach us about our current political situation. You may hear echoes you may not. But we'd like you to join the conversation. What you have for our historian does your Edward watts. I'm David Folkenflik in. This is on point. How often do people lie on dating apps in a robots taking over our jobs? I'm Cardiff Garcia co host a planet. Money's the indicator. Where everyday we tell you a short story about the economy get it on NPR one or wherever you get your podcasts. This is on point. I'm NPR media. Correspondent David Folkenflik. We're discussing the Republic of rain should ancient Rome and its political system, and how that systems descent and collapse. Informs our current day. Follow us on Twitter. Find us on Facebook at on point radio with me today. Edward watts. He's professor of history at the university of California, San Diego. His new book is mortal Republic how Rome fell into tyranny and Edward. It's my understanding. It's no accident that you chose to publish this book of this time, which is not to say that you're not interested in the subject of you've studied it for years, and at the same time, there's something about the current moment that inspired you what took you. You know, inspired you to take pen to parchment for this. I think the the biggest thing that inspired me to do. This was to see the reaction, and the sort of questions that my students are asking me, you know, I've been teaching this forever twenty years and the interests that students have had usually been for most of that time in the empire and in what happens to the empire, and why the empire disappears. But over the last say two or three years the questions really have been about the Republic. You know, what does the Republic tell us about ways to think about what's going on in the world around us now? And I think that the Republic offers a story that offers a some ways to think, you know, it doesn't doesn't prescribe what the future will be for us. But I think it does give us a sense of things we need to be aware of and conditions and kinds of political behaviors that will be destructive in a situation and an assistant that's designed to promote consensus and my students interested in. This is quite sincere, and they really are seeking tools to try to figure out how to think through the world around them. And I think the Roman Republic offers some pretty significant and important tools to think about what behaviors might help us, politically, and what behaviors might prove destructive politically. I mean, they're headlines right off, the you you mentioned that there is an actual title in the in the days of the Roman Republic dictator where they they would grant extraordinary powers for limited terms right there. There have been a headlines in recent days, where President Trump has said he wants his thinking hard almost definitely may be positively considering declaring a national emergency. So that he can get funding and also assign people to build a border wall. Congress's not a authorized funding for which is probably a big legal problem. All the way around new headline. I believe yesterday the New York Times, President Trump in secretary of state Pompeo, embrace autocrats and disparage opponents. At home. What how would we gauge in the current day? Whether you know, as as people get most exercised there is in some ways and unraveling norms that could be detrimental over the long term for the Republic, or whether these are just part of you know, flare ups and flaps that that arise and dissipate. You know soon to be forgot. I think that the thing that's particularly dangerous to look at our actions that when they were done the first time, we're seeing as really abberant, and and sort of oddly sort of dangerous, I that have become commonplace twenty five years ago shutting down the government for sort of political brinksmanship was seen as absolute crazy. You know, it was beyond the pedal. Absolutely. It was something that no one would even dare do. And now, it's routine that's a a sort of degeneration of norms. There's no law that says you can't do that. But the norm saying that that's something that is not acceptable have completely eroded. And now, this is something that, you know, it it's just done as part of a process of political negotiation. It's almost become sort of a routine part of the system. I think that the the law granting presidents the ability to assert emergency powers. It seems to me that this is a law that is incredibly permissive because there is a basic. Assumption that presidents would use it in ways that you know, we're not for political gain. But we're for to actually address a problem that is an emergency. And I think something threatening the security of the statements people exactly like when president Carter uses it to sort of streamline action against Iran for taking hostages, or when President Bush used that in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Those were not for political purposes they were to respond quickly to a problem that needed a quick response. And the law could be it seems could potentially be used in the way that President Trump is is talking about using it the reason it hasn't been before is because there is a norm saying this is actually for real purpose of real emergency. And in this context, I think if it's used basically as a sort of off ramp for a political stalemate that opens up a precedent to misuse this law even worse in the future. We've got a call from Providence Rhode Island. Matt what's your thinking about about Roman about what we think about today? Hi, thanks for taking my call. I'm I'm just struck by something you said at the beginning of the program about how Rome was allowed to fall not that it just fell on its own and in my own talking with everybody, I, you know, run into about with what's going on in our country. A lot of the times I hear well that could never happen here a lot earlier in the first hour of this program. The the right stock fire was mentioned in the why mart Republic, and I find myself coming back to that. And seeing how you know a Representative government can fall quickly to throw -tarian isn't and whatnot. So I guess I just wonder if the if the professor could speak to kind of the mentality of the Roman citizenry at the time before the the slide from public into empire. And if that has any kind of resonance or what we can look out for today. Hey, thank you so much. Good question. What do you think? Yeah. Not. That's a great question. I what I. I would say and what I mean when I say, the the citizens of Rome allowed the Republic to fall the citizens of Rome took it for granted that the Republic would be there. And so they were conscious choices made to either act in your own self interest in ways that were sort of damaging to the the structure of the Republic and the norms that sustained it or if you're a regular voter an unwillingness to punish people who behaved that way. But beneath that is a basic assumption that the Republic is incredibly successful in. It's been there a long time, and it doesn't need protecting. You know, the short term gains. You can get from doing something that violates political norms are worth it because they won't destroy the system. No, not all Romans were complacent all the time there were moments throughout even that last century, where Romans would say, this is this is a crisis, and we need to sort of rally around the state, we need to defend our Republic, but the average sort of choices that individuals were making q. Cumulated and created sort of conditions where these norms could be violated in ways that were, you know, more subtle than marching an army on Rome. But no less destructive over a long period of time. And I think that particular at an analogy that I think Rome gives or offers Americans, you know, the the Weimar Republic was young. There were lots of people who could remember just just to be clear just to be clear Weimar Republic preceded the rise of Hitler and the takeover of the Nazis in the thirties. Correct. Yeah. They're republics that fell in the nineteen thirties in places like Germany or Spain and led to terrorism where young republics there were a lot of people in those societies who've remembered living under something else. And so they didn't take the consi- the continuity of that Republic for granted in the way that citizens living in a Republic that's been around for centuries contend to do I I don't think that anyone consciously sort of his. Thinking that the danger to the United States from having these sort of budget shutdowns are other sort of political conflicts? Like we've been having will accumulate in such a way that they will create conditions for the Republic to ultimately fall because I Republic is old, and it has generally been successful. And there's a complacency that comes about from living in an old Republic because it's hard to imagine what seems impossible, and it's hard to conceive of how you reach that point. And I think the lesson that Rome provides is that a Republic that is old and is successful can generate a specific or special kind of complacency among citizens that ultimately can be as destructive as the sort of perhaps cynicism of people living in young Republic. Who don't feel like it's it's the right form of government for them at all. It's funny in reading your book there moments at which you know, certain politicians are standing up in some ways for groups. Of of less powerful Romans who feel oppressed who feel that that elites are running the the. The Republic for their own benefit and not without good reason. And of course, a lot of echoes in terms of a lot of critiques you hear from the left and the right today about the American political system, and yet there's a a distrust that sort of drumbeat, it seems to me that undergirds a lot of your your your writing about some of those political leaders that you don't feel that that the best interest of the people. They were representing was was really what was front of mind for them that there's a distrust there, and that you kind of prefer in some ways a system that doesn't move strongly and really muscular Lee without a lot of checks and a lot of hoops to to to get through to be able to do that. I think that I think that that's that's certainly true. I think when you look at particularly say, the financial and wealth, gaps in the one forties and one thirties. BC the Roman Republic had retried to respond to that. There were politicians who promoted significant changes in voting rights that gave more sort of more of a voice to regular people and made it a lot more difficult for what wealthy people to influence their votes, and sort of tamper with their votes, and there were proposals for economic reforms that had been floated, but we're voted down. And what Tiberius gronk is did was he pushed a proposal to reform to do an economic reform of redistribution of wealth. It was very similar to proposals that had come before and he could not generate consensus, and so he used threats and sort of. Norm breaking tactics to get those through. Now, I think it's reasonable to think that because those proposals kept coming up eventually the Republic would have come to come to an agreement about how to do something like that. And the challenge is that Tiberius crock is made this about him. You know, this was about him pushing through this reform not about the reform being pushed through but about him being the one to do it. And that I think is is when this becomes dangerous. I think Republic that is successful is a dynamic Republic. But it moves at a different kind of pace. And it doesn't move in a way that's convenient for individual politicians were going to say Edward you talk about it being about him. And that certainly, you know offers evokes present day echoes that said, you know, there have been a lot of critiques over the years when George W Bush was president about the use of executive signing statements. Kind of subvert or reroute. The intent of laws of President Obama's well as President George W Bush using executive orders to do things outside of congressional authority and outside of the law. And there's obviously we're looking at at at President Trump now who's been described as shattering all kinds of norms. How different is what Trump is doing. How would you assess given the kinds of warning flags that you've set up is what the our current president represents? I think there couple of things that are particularly alarming about the way that Trump is doing this. You know, the the use of emergency decrees. I think we've seen that go wrong in the twentieth century into any first century in so many different contexts when you impound president to declare an emergency without a clear sense of what what actually constitutes an emergency. They're all sorts of things that can be done that are effectively unchecked. And so I think that's a really dangerous step to really. Dangerous precedent. I think another thing that is alarming to me is the use of this kind of menacing behaviour at rallies that I think is something that challenges this basic rule that political behavior will not be subject to violence. He has not encouraged violence. He hasn't sort of. There's hasn't been the kind of violence that you see in Rome in the last century of the Republic, but even creating condition where you can start to speak in that way, it encourages a movement towards behaving that way, and I think all politicians need to sort of be very aware that one of the greatest things Republic guarantees is the ability to participate, politically and peacefully without putting your life at risk for doing this and violence must be kept out of it. Even if it's just kind of intimated or threatened or even just to sort of sense of menace. All of those things need to be kept out of political discussions because they do eventually produce a condition where that violence can actually take form and actually be sort of inflicted on people. When you think about the question of violence. He think about the question of norms being shattered. You know, let's let's site. Leo Tolstoy, you know, for people of good faith of goodwill of any political party of any stripe thinking about the health of this Republic, our Republic what then must we do. I think the important thing in the lesson that I hope everyone takes away from from thinking about rum is the Republic itself as an entity needs to be thought about Romans took it for granted they pursued policies they pursued individual genders, and they just assumed that that Republican context would basically be durable enough that a short term sort of gained for them wouldn't threaten the long term stability of the Republic. But I think every citizen of a Republic needs to pause and say occasionally does this policy or this tactic that I approve of actually make the Republic stronger. And if it doesn't we are really putting the success of that Republic at risk and a stability at ensures. And I think that the thing we have to do as Americans is is think seriously about some of the political behaviors that do violate norms, and what can we do to discipline or speak back to the politicians? Who pursue those those avenues for short term gain? Or for personal gain? We need to at some. We need at times to stand up for the Republic and the norms that secure it even if in the short term that might disadvantage, the political agenda that we support and very differently has writing this book changed any of the the answers that you give your students as they turned you for some guidance in bewildering times, I really believe that the best thing I can do for my students is to give them information. And encourage them to think with it. That's you know, they will be able to find solutions. They will be able to respond to problems. They just need the information to understand what possible consequences are. And I think as an educator. That's the best. We can do the mandate of educators the mandate of journalists. Edward watts professor of history at the university of California, San Diego. His book is mortal Republic how room fell into tyranny thanks for joining us so much today. Thank you so much. This was great. You can continue our conversation. Get the on point podcast at our website on point radio dot ORG. You can follow us on Twitter and find us on Facebook it on radio on point is produced by Annabelle min Madeline Dangelo Justin down Brian Hudson ski Eileen modest fun of Sonus Alison pulley tiny Raleigh James Ross. And Alex rotter, I wanna think Hillary mcquilken for this show. We've had help from David Marino or executive producer. Karen Shiffman me, I'm David Folkenflik in. This is on point.
A massacre in New Zealand, fighting in Israel, and a redemptive lesson from an unlikely source
"Really? A massacre in New Zealand fighting in Israel and a redemptive lesson. From an unlikely source. This is Jim Dennison's the daily article podcast or Friday, March fifteenth twenty nineteen forty nine people were killed in shootings. Two mosques in Christ's church. New Zealand this morning. Twenty more were seriously wounded four people, including three men and one woman have been taken into custody. One man in his late twenties has been charged with murder. He reportedly posted a white nationalist manifesto on Twitter. This tragedy was the largest massacre in New Zealand history reminds us that Satan comes to steal kill and destroy. God is weeping with those who today and calls us to join him. In other news is rarely were plans struck some one hundred HAMAs targets in the Gaza Strip overnight responding to a rocket attack on the Israeli troppled of Tel Aviv. The fighting broke out as gyp shin mediators, wearing Gaza working to broker in expanded ceasefire between Israel, and HAMAs and were. Filled with violence and chaos. We can learn a redemptive lesson. From an unlikely source today is known as the ides of March in the Roman world. The Eid's was the mid point of their months the date. We knows marks. Fifteenth was marked by several religious ceremonies was a Roman deadline for settling debts. This day is especially known to history as the day Julius Caesar was assassinated in forty four BC. The back story is remarkable. According to the Roman biographer Plutarch a certain seer warned Caesar to be on his guard against a great peril on the day of the month of March, which the Romans call the Eid's and with day had common Caesar was on his way to the Senate house. He greeted the seer with jest and said, well, the ides of March calm and the Sears said to him. Softly, I they are come, but they are not gone later that day Caesar was stabbed to death by as many as sixty conspirators led by Brutus and Cassius most people know the story of his death. But why was Caesar murdered on this day and Wise's death relevant to our broken world. Today. The Roman Republic was founded in five oh nine BC. Governed by leaders elected by the people there Representative model influence, the founders of the American Republic over time. However, the aristocratic leaders of the Republic became less focused on the people in more concerned for their own power and agendas. Julius Caesar rosta power as an accomplished military conqueror with chaos in Rome. Caesar led his army south across the Rubicon. The northern barrier of Italy on January tenth forty-nine BC by forty five. He had become the sole dictator of Rome Brutus, Cassius in the senators who conspired to execute Caesar claim they were liberating the people from dictatorship. He was killed in a place notice poppies theater, the area fell into ruins over the centuries and his current fenced off from the public and occupied by stray cats. However, the mayor of Rome announced last week that the site will undergo renovation NB open to the public in twenty twenty one. What can we learn from the ides of March the book mortal Republic how Rome fell into tyranny as a new history of the fall of the? Roman Republic, its author Edward J watts earn his PHD in history from L and has received numerous awards for his research in writing he notes that the men who led the Republican the third century before Christ. Also understood that their personal achievements. Had meaning only when they served the larger goals of Roman policy. There was a shared understanding that the Republic was a political system subject to no one, but the community as a whole to illustrate watts sites famous statement by Cicero, we are all slaves of the laws. So that we might be free overtime, however, Roman political life devolved into a struggle among individuals seeking honor and power through the complete control of the city and the resources of the empire, eventually Romans would have a new sort of liberty freedom from fear freedom from famine and freedom from danger now all came from emperor, Augustus and Augusta's alone. When the Roman Republic became a means to the end of personal advancement for its leaders. Its decline began the same can happen to us when churches. Our started. They must focus on evangelism and ministry to their communities in order to grow after a few years many of gained so many members that some begin focusing on what the church can do for them. Parents went better programs for their children adults when programming focused on their needs the church stops focusing externally on those it is called to reach and starts focusing internally on itself, and it plateaus and often declines the same could happen to individual Christians. When we focus more on what he's is can do for us than what we can do for him. We come to church into God for what we can receive, and we stopped fulfilling the commission to which we are called the good news is that what happened to Rome doesn't have to happen to us churches can renew their commitment to serve the community. They are commissioned to reach Christians can renew argument to the one who came not to be served but to serve every day. We must decide whether we will live for Jesus or for ourselves. The tragedies that fill each day's news show is that this decision is urgent for us. And for the broken world. We are called to serve here's the. A paradox when we serve God and others. We find a greater significance than we can ever experienced by serving ourselves the disciples receive power from the spirit. So they could be witnesses for our Lord when we share the joy of Jesus we experienced the joy of Jesus when we bless others. We are blessed in terms of the eyes of Marsh. We can be an empire or we can be a Republic, but we cannot be both which do you choose today. The Denison forum has a new resource we'd like you to know about east coming soon and even two thousand years later, the events leading up to Easter are still a history making life changing week. But if someone asked you why you so important to you. How would you respond? Are you ready to explain its significance to skeptical friend journey to the resurrection is a new fifteen day devotional guide by Dr Jim Denison. In the lead up to Easter. It will help you explain the eternal significance of the holy week to your friends, family and coworkers for your physical copy. Visit Denison forum dot org slash journey to find out more. Request your copy at Denison, forum dot org slash. Journey when you give today to help more people discern the news differently. Thank you for your partnership. And thank you for listening to today's daily article podcast.
Founding Documents: The Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers
"Civics. Wanna one is supported in part by the corporation for public broadcasting. He did you ever have to write one of those what I did over my summer vacation essays in grade school. Yeah. All the time. In fact, my find is summer vacations playing Sam GAM gay in an eight hour production award rings. I wasn't expecting that. That is that's really that's ambitious. But still your thing is not as ambitious as designing a, you know, new system of government. Yeah. Nowhere near as in businesses that now right because that's totally insane. You can't pull that off in four months. And yet that is how we got our current system of government a bunch of guys in the stifling, heat and Philadelphia in this airless room with the windows nailed shut in the middle of the summer wrote our constitution in four months, and then they stepped outside and showed the world there. You know, what I did on my summer vacation essay by say, you mean the constitute? Listen, I do. The delegates to the convention publish their constitution in newspapers throughout the thirteen states, and they were probably hoping for pretty positive response. But that is not what they got a mere ten days after the constitution is signed. I mean, the ink is barely dry on this thing. Some guy named Kato rates this audit, basically saying, I know that it's really exciting that this new constitution was signed by people like George Washington. But just be careful about it. It might not be all it's cracked up to be what someone's already constitution bashing. What is this Kato guy? No, who is Kato anyways has even read the constitution. Well, he has. But before we get into that introductions. I am Hannah McCarthy DJ, and this is civics one. Oh one and today, we are diving into one of the most high stakes eloquent intense public battles in the history of the United States. It's the battle that pitted. The pro constitution federalists against the anti-constitution, anti federalists. And it sounds like the whole thing started with this guy named Kato. It did indeed the op-ed that launched a thousand ships as far as who Kato is. And what he actually knows. We're not totally sure about that. It's most likely George Clinton, the governor of New York, but it could also be this New York politician, John Williams, whoever it is he almost certainly did not attend the constitutional convention or Takeda's assume them, correct. It's referring to a politician in ancient Rome who killed himself because he didn't wanna live in Julius Caesar's. New government Kato was all about defending the Roman Republic. That is a little on the nose Kato saying he'd rather die than live under this new constitution. Bingo at the time. Most educated men would have picked up on the symbolism of this the name. Kato had actually been used to. Critique the British government in the past. Okay. So the framers are a bunch of classics nerds, I can appreciate that. I think it's kind of endearing, but why New York this as gets published in New York, it's written by New York. Politician, New York, what's your damage? Well, New York is not super happy with the new constitution of the three delegates. They send to the constitutional convention to walk out only Alexander Hamilton stayed behind. But he's pretty thrilled with the constitution. A lot of New York. Congressman do not feel the same way. They do not want to see the state's consolidated under this one powerful central government. And they really don't believe that the constitution can guaranteed equal and permanent liberty like its proponents claim. So who's writing the op-ed four exactly the whole KEDO Roman Republic metaphor seems like pretty inside baseball like your average farmer. Probably doesn't know what's being referenced here. You know, the average farmer is not who Kato is speaking to right now. The constitution is only a piece of paper with a bunch of ideas. It doesn't carry any real power and Kato wants to stop that power from happening altogether. So he's talking to the guys in charge. Yeah. Politicians delegates white literate men. Of course, those are the ones who were at the constitutional convention. Those were the ones who are going to be in the ratifying conventions. This is Claire Griffin. She's a former government and history teacher, and a consultant and civic education. Like, she said, the Cato letter is addressed to the people who will be voting on whether or not to ratify the constitution nine out of thirteen states have to ratify in order for the constitution to go into effect. And the Cato letter is the first of many many op-eds criticizing the constitution while they were series of about a hundred and fifty articles written by by literally dozens of opponents to the constitution. These were published not just in New York. But in New York, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Maryland, again, kind of the same timeframe September seventy eighty seven through December seventeen eighty eight and their purpose was to dissuade the delegates to the ratifying conventions from supporting the constitution. Just. Nope. They had a Brutus a sentinel. They had an old wig. And that's W H I G collectively these writers were known as the anti. By federalists. And these were really smart men with really, well, informed ideas. All right. So being an anti-federalist doesn't make you unreasonable or post government of any kind necessarily. Now did all before we go on. I should almost apologize for calling them anti federalist because nobody wants to be called anti anything. And that name anti-federalist actually came from the federalist to describe their opponents. And because history is often written by the victors the name anti federalists has stuck and we'll use that in our conversation. They would have called themselves. Pro Republicans we publican with a small are we what does she mean? By that small are Republicans. Oh, what she means is as opposed to the big are Republican party small are Republicans are just in favor of a Republic. Which most basically is a government where power rests with the people there anti federalists. Because they're not thrilled with strict federalism, which is basically a centralized federal government that works with smaller state and local governments the anti federalists would prefer government closer to the articles of confederation with it's really weak central government. And plenty of state power of the guys who are writing what we call the anti-federalist papers. They wouldn't have actually call themselves into federalist, right? No, no way. Their opponents gave them that label which is actually a pretty strong PR move calling a group anti anything. It just makes them seem negative. And in this case the other group of guys calls themselves. The federalists the anti-federalists probably would have called them. The anti little are Republicans is a win to the federalists actually enter the fight so far. We've just got this op-ed by Kato. Yeah. It's actually quite a while before the anti. Lists make their move. The little are Republicans have published Twenty-one statements by the time we hear from the pro constitution guys which I found pretty surprising because when I learned about this time period in school. I learned about the federalists the federalists were this big deal. These guys who explained the constitution. And I'm almost certain that I didn't read a single anti-federalist paperback then and yet they were the ones who kicked everything off. We might not have the federalist papers as we know them today without the anti federalists. I'm guessing the pro-constitution framers get to a point where they're like. All right enough. We can't let this go anymore. These guys are killing us with bad press. Exactly. And they're not just in New York anymore. Kato inspired critics and other states as well. But the soon to be capital F federalists aren't just sitting there twiddling their thumbs. While all of this is going on they're making plans, and then on Tober, twenty-seventh it happens. The first federalist essay hits the presses of New York paper. Number one, did the very first one written by Alexander Hamilton in which he's laying out the case for a new constitution. Something to replace the articles of confederation federalist one otherwise known as Pugliese one. Who is? Yes. Yes. It's a silly sounding name Pugliese was a guy in ancient Rome who helped to overthrow the monarchy and create the Republic of the people that is a clever move by Hamilton right 'cause Cato kick things off the name that's in defense of the Republic. And then Hamilton comes back at him. Like, no way, man. You got this all wrong. I'm the guy who establishes a Representative government. I'm the guy gives power to the people. You must be the other guy. What I love about that Bush number one is that Hamilton B, I should have stacked that the American people now have a chance to make decisions to create a government based on reflection and choice, not accident and force. Meanwhile, and anti-federalist calling himself John DeWitt publishes in Massachusetts. He reads, the constitution, and what he sees is this permanent document that will never change. He basically. Don't let them fool you. That amendment. Clause is useless. Congress has never going to achieve that three fourths majority. They're talking about because that would require too many people to agree. He calls it an absolute impossibility. It's interesting because we know that the constitution does end up getting amended, but back then there must have been so much anxiety about this new system of government. How could they possibly know? It was going to work out the anti-federalist just saying, hey, we can't take this gigantic radical leap into a brand new system, especially one that throws us into a stronger government. We just escaped a stronger government. Right. And the federalists were saying, look, we have got to beef up the federal government because the way that it is. Now is a disaster. We got it wrong. We went too far toward a government of the people. It is too divided. So the first anti-federalist drops in LA. Late September Pugliese one arrives about a month later, and it says, okay? So we've heard some concerns we are going to write a series of essays that are going to answer all your questions about this new constitution. This is Cheryl cook Kallio who's a former teacher and former council member in Pleasanton, California. And then he and John Jay and Madison methodically went through every single thing that was concerning and try to answer those questions in eighty five essays eighty five hour, we're gonna get through eighty-five essays in one episode, actually, it's probably more than eighty-five because when you lump in the anti federalists. And a few other things written at the time, you're really looking at closer two hundred forty plus articles. But don't despair the point of this episode is to get a sense of what this fight actually looked like what were the arguments for and against this nation changing document. And how did the federalists approach to these ads help their game? They were put in a collection, and they started to disseminate that collection throughout the colonies. And again in contrast to the anti-federalists that were very much individual essays that were now written in defense of their position. So the federalists are working together guys like Kato and Buddhists and the old whig are just coming at it from their own individual perspectives. The anti-federalists were certainly sharing their opinions with one another. But it wasn't a unified front the way that it was with Alexander Hamilton and James Madison, and John J J by the way, wasn't at the constitutional convention, but he was a powerful New Yorker and secretary of foreign affairs under the articles of confederation. So while the anti-federalists comprised over a dozen different authors and pseudonyms those three federalists published. Only publiz there were certainly other pro-constitution people writing op EDS, but it was Pugliese who shown the brightest. Do you think that's part of the reason why the federalist ended up being successful, you know, in my opinion? Yes. And I base this on a on a couple of things one is that Hamilton and Madison in particular were planners. They had written out their justifications for particular things, even before they would get into the constitutional convention. They would have the ammunition. They needed to support something. Also, I think Madison James Madison in particular is a pragmatist. He knew that there needed to be a different type of government. He knew that under the articles confederation. The government was way too weak to survive. And he was prepared to do what he needed to do to get a different structure in place. You listen to civics wanna one because you're looking for accessible and credible information about how our demain. Macher ac- was created and how it works as fans of the show. We think you'll enjoy the great courses. Plus, it's a streaming service where you can learn about virtually anything, you can do all those deep dives into topics that you've always wanted to know more about in history, politics, human behaviour, science business travel. The information is reliable fact chat and presented by experts. Now, the best part, they aren't just experts. They're actually engaging. Great teachers, the great courses, plus has one course that civics went to one listeners will definitely want to check out this week. It's called America's founding fathers. It explores our nation's beginning, and the founders quest for liberty as they drafted and ratified the US constitution. Now from hindsight. We know the constitution was approved. But it was no done deal. There's an especially great one on the federalist papers episode twenty called Alexander Hamilton papers. And it's really fascinating to hear. Why the founders thought it was important to mask their identity? These they thought you might get distracted from the contents of their arguments by their big names. There is so much to discover with the great courses plus in right now civics wanna one listeners can enjoy a free trial with unlimited access to their entire library. Start your free trial today. Go to the great courses plus dot com slash civics. That's the great courses plus dot com slash civics. Here is another agreed upon favourite that shed some real light this one is by James Madison than actually a lot of the favorites. Are by James, Madison. I do like federalists ten I think that Madison was right when he said that factions are bad, but their inevitable, and that the only way to mitigate these factions is to balance them out Madison published federalist ten on November twenty second. This is after anti-federalists like Kato expressed concerns about this centralized congress with so many different special interests. Basically, he was saying how is the government going to get anything done with this system? It'll be a house divided. It'll be useless. Just a bunch of factions Madison has to prove that the new system of government is actually the best way to deal with factions. But what did medicine actually mean by factions like political parties well back in the day, the US? Didn't really have the party system the way that it looks today. So it'd be less party factions and more like opposed special interest groups and Madison's biggest concern was over the special interest groups who would fight against what was best for everybody. A good example back then would have been slave owners versus abolitionists here's Clara again, he's writing about the bandages of a large Republic again Republic with a small are where individuals choose their elected representatives, political philosophers before Madison were pretty certain that a Republic would only work in a small geographically small area with a fairly homogeneous population. And Madison says just the opposite. He set up be public works best when the territory is large and expand it, and when there are so many different interests and groups he used the word faction that all. All these different interest groups offset each other, no minority is persecuted against no Mudge already ever has complete sway Madison. Also focuses on the economy in federalist ten and at this point in history. The US economy is really not doing so hot. He describes unequal property distribution with some people having everything in some people having nothing, and this he says can create factions to the wealthy versus the poor his large Republic where you've got a congress representing the many scattered views of the common people will work to balance this out. It seems like Madison and the other federalists are going to have an answer for every concern the anti-federalist put their way. Yeah, they pretty much do. And a big part of defending the constitution is explaining the constitution. Like when anti-federalist Brutus argues that the supreme court would be quote exalted above all other power in the government and subject to no control. And Hamilton is like, okay, let me break it down for you number seventy eight Alexander Hamilton, again is writing about the importance of the independent judiciary. And I'm not sure whether or not he really believed it, but he said that of the three branches the judiciary would be the weakest. He said they have neither the fourth of the sword nor the pen the idea being they have no way to enforce what their judgment is and the also emphasized that they were called upon to exercise judgment about laws, but not will as in. They are not the lawmakers. So when you hear discussions about activist judges or judicial overreach or even questions about your digital review today Hamilton raising those questions back in seventeen eighty eight. And then there's the president the anti-federalists looked at article to and they were not happy with what they saw. I would imagine the anti federalists are looking at the role of the president thinking. This looks mighty familiar. Yep. But the federalists believed that there is a very good reason for this executive power number seventy written by Alexander Hamilton, this is where he writes about the importance of energy in the executive branch. The right is of the constitution. We're looking at the immediate past history. When we were governed under the articles of confederation one of the major weaknesses of the government under the articles. There was no chief executive and so- Hamilton whom some. Some have called a monarchist which I think is unfair Hamilton was arguing for a strong executive individual and a strong executive branch and the executive branch that's laid out in the constitution. Doesn't say all that much about putting check on this new executive the anti federalists feared that between veto power. Pardon power. You'd end up with a president who could bend the nation to his will. Well, if you look, you know, throughout American history, we've had a series of very strong executive, and usually it's in times of crisis. But is a strong executive the best for our nation. You know, and the anti-federalist would say, you know, no, that's not such a good idea. You know, the federalists were arguing generally in favor of a large government or lease a government larger than that which had existed prior, and certainly big government can do great and wonderful things. But the anti-federalist were saying well, not so fast. Maybe we don't want a huge government bureaucracy. So it's kind of interesting you could say that the federalist were successful. You know, they got their desired outcome. The constitution was ratified and the federalist papers have become integral to our understanding. Of our founding. However, if you look at the anti-federalist giving some of the questions and concerns that that they raise then they're still with us today. We may decide that after all they ended up having the last laugh. A really interesting point the federalist one. So that's the history that counts. Right. And we look to the federalist papers to better understand the constitution. And that makes them an amazing resource. But it does seem like the anti-federalists are raising valid points. Absolutely. And remember the anti federalists are posing a real threat, first of all these essays are public. So if you can read, and you don't like what you're reading about this proposed constitution, you might just give your Representative and ear full down at the tavern or doubt on the street, or after church, and then there's the fact that some of these anti federalists are going to be voting on whether or not to adopt the constitution. So they have a very real say in the future of the country and on top of all that the constitution only needs the support of nine states to be ratified. Right. But that means that as many as four. Dates could choose not to ratify and potentially even sever ties with the new nation. So no more union union over in the country ends up being the very failure. That so many framers were anxious to prevent so the federalists do have to listen to the anti-federalists to an extent and not just to calm their fears or do damage control with Antiphon op-eds, right? The constitution is up for a vote in ratifying conventions across the country and some states like Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey. They're quick to ratify. They do it in December of seventeen eighty seven. But the op-eds don't stop the federalists and anti federalists are still battling it out into the spring and then into the summer of seventeen eighty eight because there are a lot of very loud dissenters, arguing that the constitution is illegal under the articles of confederation. That it's a document written by wealthy upper class people to benefit their own interests that it deprives states of their. Individual rights in favor of this big central government. How do the federalist reconcile that issue is it sounds like anti-federalists are all about states having sovereignty and looking out for their own and making their own choices. So how can the federalists make this big government remotely appealing to them? Well, Madison does dig into that by explaining how in broad terms. This government is going to work here's Cheryl again when he's trying to explain it one of the things he says this is a quote from federalists thirty nine in its foundation. It is sterile not national in the sources from which the ordinary powers of government are drawn. It is partly federal and partly national in the operation of these powers. It is national not federal in the extent of them. Again, it is steadily not national and finally in the authoritative mode. Introducing amendments it is neither holy federal or holy national. Now that's enough to make anybody's is cross two or three times. It sounds like double speak. Yeah. I really don't understand what Madison is talking about is. He canceling out his own argument. And what does he mean by federal versus national aren't they the same thing when you deconstruct the paragraph? It really does illustrate the nature of federalism. Sometimes the states are in charge, sometimes the national governments in charge, and sometimes the federal government, which is the combination of the two is in charge, and these things change depending on the circumstance, he would then go on to say that this is really a check this idea that you have state power that doesn't belong to the federal government. An example of this. Police powers that's a state power. There's a number of things like that. And sometimes the lines are blurred. And sometimes they're not. All right. So in other words, Madison is saying look this strong federal government. It is not designed to deprive states of all power, sometimes the states get to decide and sometimes the federal government gets to decide sometimes they decide together. Right. He's saying this document is not as extreme as these anti federalists are making it out to be don't worry, you'll retain some states rights. Of course, that doesn't adjust the little problem of the federal government being at the top of the food chain. And the anti-federalists are like we're afraid of tyranny. Remember, and this constitution doesn't say anything about protecting the little guy. You can't just kind of vaguely say don't worry individual citizens. You'll be fine. The anti-federalist want this in writing. Okay. I've been waiting for this. This is the big old glaring omission in the constitution of seventeen eighty seven. And we're talking about the Bill of rights. Where's that Bill writes? That is exactly what the anti federalists were saying where is the Bill of rights. It might seem like a no brainer for us. But at the time the federalists were like, no, no, no. We don't need to add anything to the constitution. It's overkill. It's redundant. The last federalist paper, which is probably significant for what it argues against not. What it argues in favour of is number eighty four in which Hamilton argues against a Bill of rights now today for us in the twenty first century, a Bill of rights is sacrosanct. It's right up there with the declaration in the constitution. It is one of the founding documents. It's hard for us to understand. How could we not have a Bill of rights? But if you look at Hamilton's arguments, they could be pretty persuasive. Humiliations main argument was that there's protection kind of built into the constitution already. The federal government only has the powers that are laid out in the constitution. And this idea of making a list of what the government is not allowed to do to individuals or two states. Well, Hamilton says if you start listing them at all you've got to list all of them. And by the way, you're bound to forget something. And if it doesn't end up on the list. Well, the government might have the power to impose it. All. Right. So I know we've been saying the. Federalists lost the war, but they did win. This battle big time. At the end of the federalist anti-federalist saga. We are going to have a constitution. But I the anti federalists need a little something. Actually, they need. Ten little something's ten somethings that will change the course of history and come to me and everything to the American people in a last ditch effort to save the union. Our civil liberties will be born. But how does it happen? How insane hill? Does it happen? Nick next time on civics one to one. Thanks for joining us for another installment of our foundational document series. Here uncivil one one this episode was produced by me Hannah McCarthy with Nick capita J or stuff includes Jackie Hilbert, Daniela, dull Lee and been Henry Erica Janik is our executive producer. Maureen McMurray is that other glaring emission from the US constitution. We could only cover so many federalists and anti federalists thoughts in this episode, but we've got links to plenty more on our website civics one a one podcast dot org music. In this episode by keen, SaaS Moreira, blue dot sessions and Jasar civics. Wanna one is a production of HP our New Hampshire public radio.
Episode 5: The Immortals - Julius Caesar
"This episode of neutral, the ides of March is a day on the Roman calendar the corresponds to March fifteenth and forty four BC March fifteenth became notorious as the date of the assassination of Julius Caesar which made the ides of March a turning point in Roman history. So on this episode, I'm telling the story of Julius Caesar's remarkable life hand death. If you doubt Caesar's impact on our lives have a look at a calendar. There's a month call July that month was named for Julius Caesar. The following month is August named after Caesar's nephew, the first Roman emperor Augustus the calendar, we use today was named after these two men who live two thousand years ago, the modern calendars actually Caesar's calendar. He added the number of days necessary to actually fed how often the earth goes around the sun and the three hundred sixty. Five day calendar, including adjusting at every four years for leap year, his Caesar's invention so Caesar's in your life. Whether you know it or not he's in your life every year, and he's part of the calendar by which you live. Very term Caesar which became in German. Kaiser Kaiser Ville him came in Russian czar is today still a term that describes a centralized dicta to'real power two thousand years after he died, so we're dealing with somebody who's impact shook our part world western world so profoundly that even to this day. He is in many ways and in on known and on studied. But very real presence. If you look at Latin you'll find that among the most elegant books ever written in Latin was Caesar's Gallic wars and Caesar's civil wars who Caesar was not just a great military general of the mazing politician. He was also a remarkable good writer and a remarkably good orators reputation for using Lang. Guage brilliantly a made him one of the leading people in Rome for much of his life. Just because of his share talent the Roman Republic got too big to militaristic was too much the center of power I end as a result money poured in from all over to corrupt the Roman system. So if you were in Greece so you were in Spain or you are North Africa. And you wanted to get goodies the most efficient way to get goodies was to have a lobbyist in Rome bribe somebody and a lot of lessons to be learned by what happens when your system is to be bigger than you can maintain. And when the breakdown of the traditional order leads to the rise of tyrants, and that's literally what was happening and Caesar's lifetime. If you don't understand the Rome of his time. You can't understand him. His ankle Maria's is around one hundred BC, and he's the best general of his generation. But he's. Politically on the losing side of power struggle. And so his we sort of pushed off to one side, and he's not very important and all of a sudden, huge Germanic tribe comes rolling down the room river valley and the Roman people get scared because they think these this huge tribe is going to break through in the Italy. And so they call him back and given our mini goes north any wipes out the German tribe, and they now like Marius briefly, and then he is deposed and exiled, and he is sent to a place we don't think of as desert, but in its time, Sicily, it was considered desert who was not very heavily occupied. And as he recounts late in his life. He survives only by imagining what he's going to do to his enemies when he gets back. He does get back. And then he does what he said he would do. Now, why does this matter because what's beginning to happen? The politics of personality in philosophy and policy. Are beginning to be replaced by violence by by poisonings? Why assassinations by crowds in the street, and by intimidation, and in many ways marriage is the beginning of that breakthrough in that period. The secondary rise is Sola who is a great general and Sala becomes the great competitor to Mary's and between them they start wiping people out. So if you're in Sala cider, injure Marius, killing you marry society major solos killing in one of the ways, they finance what they're doing is look at the richest guys they steal their property. And they say, you know, lucky you you get to be exempted. Recent. I want all your money or you could stay here. I'll kill you. Then take all your money, which which one do you like better, and it was substantial number of Romans ended up going to Greece wrong periods. Just in order avoid being killed in that process in that period. Julius caesar. Doesn't really exist yet. He's a kid his family's very old. In fact, they are among the oldest families. Julia among the oldest families in Roman history. They go all the way back in theory prints from Troy, and in fact, they trace their mythical background. So the goddess Venus so Caesar at one level born into a family, which says to him you are the direct descendant of God and Caesar had the kind of personality that made sense to him. And so he his whole life. He has this kind of inner era that inner certainty that you probably have to be a descendant of God. It's all hard to imagine. How any normal person could have been like Caesar, but he has no money and his father dies when his young his mother actually takes the families relatively small holdings and vested in a highrise which back then men six or eight story apartment building in Saburo, which was a working class neighborhood. And so. She in the family live on the top floor, which is also the healthiest the cleanest, and they ran all the rest of the floors, which means that in his early twelve to sixteen years of age period Caesar's wandering around among working class, people learning working class Latin understanding how they think what they do have an ago, she ate, and and he is stunningly smart season may be much like Napoleon, one of the smartest people ever to live. And so he could absorb information. Could learn things at enormous speed. Caesar was ravenously ambitious. He thought he was descended from the gods. He thought he was descended from a family which had been cheated, and which was socially worthy of dramatically greater assets than they actually had from the earliest time we encounter him. He is an ending Liam vicious I and the understands that in the Roman world, if you're going to be ambitious you got to be physically capable of being a warrior because otherwise you can't earn the love respect interesting to watch Cicero, for example, who is probably Caesar's equal as an orator. And as a writer is not a great warrior, and it cripples his career because everybody knows it. But Caesar's somebody who could fight his way out of a room could fight his way in a battle could lead an army in the army felt honored to follow him. And I think he acquired that of my guess is he acquired the core of that. When he was like thirteen or fourteen of fifteen years old because you look. Around. He said I'm Caesar Caesar goes onto marry somebody who saw it doesn't like because she belongs politically to the wrong side and saw whose dictator and who is he's really he and Marissa really beginning. Total breakdown of the Republic system has now dictators you'll people who have real power they're prepared to kill you. They want sometimes kill you. Even if you do what they want in need your money. And so a Sola basely says to him you have to divorce your wife and Caesar says now is truly one of those things where you have to believe you have some kind of divine destiny. Oh, you're just nuts because Caesar's standing there is a very young man facing this dictator who's a great general has huge force around him is capable of killing Caesar on the spot. And he said, I'm not doing and so solid says, okay, we'll get it outta town. You know, I'm not gonna. Some reason decided not to kill Caesar and a may have been again, this magic touch that seizure head that he could manipulate people at levels that are just astonishing. And so the dictator said, okay, I really really mad at you. But I'm not gonna kill you right now. So Cesar goes up in the app. Nines mountains with three years hides because he knows that on a bad weekend. Sala could wake up and decide you know, Caesar doesn't amuse me that much that's killing. Eventually he joins the army to get away from Rome who's he wants to get far enough away that Sala can easily kill him. And he doesn't wanna remind Sullivan. He's around. So he wanders off in the great action area. At that time for the army is over in what they would considered the east, which is along. What we now would say is Turkish cerium coast. There were constantly fighting with both pirates and with local governments Caesar turns out to be. Be an amazingly courageous soldier. He wins. The oak leaves which is the highest sort of the quivalent of our congressional medal of honor. There are many ways. In which you can have thority or fame. You know, you can be rich. You can be a good family. He can hold high office. If you've done something so heroic the you're allowed to wear the crease, you noun a unique category because no one can challenge you hurry. And so it puts you a very small league did says first of all you've been in combat you've done it. So her oh weekly that you're appears awarded you this this highest and congressional medal of honor the only thing that's comparable. And if you've ever been in military environments people walk in wearing the congressional honor are by definition differently because it's something they earned. So I think in that sense. It was one of the things early on that marked him off in the sort of said this guy's special yet to take him seriously. And he's going to become somebody the concept of wearing a wreath which the trust comes done with good golden east for their. Things in Greek mythology. Apollo represents power in wears a laurel wreath on his head. So Caesar's mind wearing the oak wreath would be a signal of his uniqueness in his near godlike important, again, it was an age when people started earlier because they died younger, but still this guy who's who's working really hard to rise as fast as he can so Caesar as very young guy is working as way into being seen as great soldier. Great general. Great order, very very clever politician Caesar one point gets captured by pirates now the pirates had operated off the coast, Syria and Turkey because they had found places where they could go in where the passageways were so complicated that no one could find them. And what they didn't realize was that Caesar had almost a perfect memory. So two things start out of this. Particular expense. One is his Caesar by himself surrounded by pirates who are pretty tough people, and they want twenty units of silver for him. And he says that's really stupid. Know, I'm famous guy. I mean, you gotta go for fifty. If you don't if you don't go for fifty I will feel so insulted, and if you go for fifty pay by the way, after they pay you any release me I wanna come back and kill you on the pirates. All this is just great. Here's this guy. He's not physically Doug dominant. He's fairly slender. Mark very muscled. But very slender. And he doesn't look like he's a guy who's gonna come back and kill all the pirates. And so they laugh at anything just terrific great personality of chatting with you know, so they get the asked for fifty because he told them to they get fifty. They releasing he organizes an army. He remembered exactly how to find them. He goes back. He crucify all of them. But because he liked them. He cut the throats. I. There's a brief. Notre Mer about the rose crucifixion in the Roman model is designed to be really painful. Not was not what we see in the Christian image of Christ on the cross in the Roman model. You are tied up your in. You are hanging from a wooden cross and goal is to allow you to hang their until the point where birds, for example, come impact your eyes out, and you will eventually die of the hydration when the Romans put nails through Christ and poke him in the side with a spear. These are actually considered acts of kindness because they accelerate the rate at which you die. Understand the Roman world you have to start with a simple model. These were really tough ruthless people presentable inspired because rebels on the great moments in history smart has about twenty thousand followers, and he really scares the Romans the idea of slave rebellion would be genuinely frightening viewer, Roman aristocrat. So when they find feed him they crucify somebody about every two hundred feet for seventy miles. So from Naples to Rome, you're writing down a road that has people crucified the entire distance. And the in their goal is to sort of say the people who are releasing cheer. And we want you to know you do this kind of stuff we will relentlessly. Come and get you. This is also a country. Remember this before Cesar just to give you as flavored and often hits me as I walk around Rome looking at the city and looking at the walls city which had. During the wars with Carthage Hannibal is in his in Italy for seventeen years, and they can't beat him. But he can't break through the city walls. And so for seventeen years they just slug it out in Romans one point losing Tara army about coq ten eight too excited. I guess have better than other army. They decide to beat the Carthaginians. They have to go to see and build a navy, which they had not done up to them. They build an attorney. He goes to see this huge hurricane the navy, sinks and the Roman responses. I guess we need a new navy, and they don't know the navy. I mean, these are just from Lympne. This is the world. I'm getting us as background because understand Caesar if to understand this was accepted as normal this level of toughness was where they started. It wasn't what they got to. I. And so Caesar comes along and Caesar's of anything smarter more personable more ruthless and tougher than anybody else. Somebody wants said that in the great fight between Pompey and Caesar the criminal to pirates when they were both trying to win control the empire of. Republic which became number in. It wasn't like there was a good gun bad guy. These are these guys just slugging it out for power. And if they happen to kill you in the way through tough break because they were doing important to them. So here's Caesar comes back home, enters politics becomes the high priest of religion, which gives him another source of authority and becomes an elected official in the Roman system is very complicated. Hierarchy you get into you gradually rise in importance. He's all design to minimize the ability of any one person to be a dictator is what does what Marius insult have broken out of after solace death. It'd be gins to revert back towards the traditions and the goal again a little bit like the American constitution. The goal is to not have anybody concentrate power enough to be charged little thing. So they have to consuls every year two consuls to veto each. Other people were elected to lower off. They have various powers and Caesar's gradually climbing this chain of authority and at the same time he is becoming one of the most popular people enroll it's in. It's really interesting to watch Caesar is instinctively what I would call it populist in the sense that having grown up in Seborga and having understood the work in classrooms. He had concluded that the future of Rome was absorbing more and more people so part of his career will be extending citizenship to more and more and more people, which builds a huge force of followers because they see Caesar's protecting them as being there guy Caesar automobile is given thirty to go to goal now. He's already led several armies in Spain. These armies over in east who call Turkey, Syria. But now he has big moment of his career, and what people tend to forget is Caesar's gone for. Seven years. About three million men in goal when he arrives. It's one s to mitt is a story. Tony's that. He killed a million sold mine into slavery and the remain left. But. I destroy probably Tony said, he destroyed eight hundred towns at one point he fights particular, tribe and finally surrender. He surrounds her Ford. He finally finally surrender instead of killing them. He cuts off the right hands. So they're five thousand men wandering around Gaul with one hand is he wants to send a signal the you oppose me, and it is going to be really bad for you. Finally, the tribes get together they all rebel simultaneously. He's in the fight of his life. And in about a six month period. He organizes his army out maneuvers them and went now, the Roman armies, great strength is engineering logistics. They know how to have a siege. They know how to build a fort to protect themselves. They know how to sustain their army in the field was supplies. It is a very well. Thought-out are men in army which had been practice. In war for several hundred years one on one of goals would probably as good or better than the Romans. The Germans were probably as good or better than the Romans. Problem was it in fight one. What and Roman armies were very very good. Armies Caesar has tremendous instrument, which he uses brilliantly, and he uses it for seven years and support understand this because when you watch what's about to happen when he goes back to Rome, there's only one person who has the level of military experience and then entire Roman world and that season, and he has he knows how to move in those had organized nobody else's in his league. After the break Caesar returns to Rome and establishes his role has leader of the Roman Republic. This episode is brought to you by the Oxford gome group. I'm here today with the founding partners of the Oxford gold group Tillman what is the rate of return on investment in gold or other precious metals. If you go back a hundred years, you know, back in say nineteen nineteen you could buy a nice men's tailored suit for twenty dollars. Not just so happens that gold was twenty dollars an ounce in nineteen nineteen. So if you walked into a suit shop with a twenty dollar Bill or an ounce of gold, either one of those things would have bought a nice men's tailored suit a hundred years ago. Now, you get into a time machine, and you go to today, and you walk into the same suit shop, you have an ounce of gold in twenty dollar Bill. Well, guess which one is still buying the suit it, it's not the twenty dollar Bill dancer. Gold will still buy a nice suit. Probably get your shoes shine to boot the twenty dollar Bill. Barely get you the handkerchief. And so that's real preservation. This is what we mean when we. Say golden silver, real currencies. Is that literally they've held their buying power through the ages and paper currency wherever it's from eventually ends up being a museum piece. The lot of people don't realize that in the last twenty years the dollars literally lost almost half of its value. And in that same twenty years. Gold is gained almost four hundred percent and value. And that's a perfect example of what happens when you continue printing money and devaluing money, people don't realize it even the wealthiest people in the world own gold. But most of the financial advisors out there that people visit won't even bring up gold or silver. So people just don't have any clue. But once they look at the numbers and see what's happened. Just in the last twenty years. It's right there in black and white church. Request your free investment guide. Go to Oxford gold group dot com slash Newt's world or give us a call at one eight three three easy IRA. That's one eight three three three two seven nine four seven two and we can discuss all your investment goals. Oxford gold group processors of news world. Visit Oxford goal group dot com slash news world now to request your free investment guide. She's your returns to Rome after seven years at Warren goal. And he faces a problem. He's got to cross the Rubicon river, which is the boundary of Rome. At the time Caesar builds a whole series of signal fires and he has his legions leaning forward. He comes down without his legions because he wants to be peaceful. He wants to send a signal. He's he's written Gallic wars, which are well worth reading in which essentially are volume every every year and sensually are here's how Caesar one and captured go and turned all these leaves in the mind and why you should love Caesar because what he's done for. He also found a daily newspaper to mind, you that Caesar loves shield Caesar does things so his enemies who under Roman rule if he gives up his governorship. They can try him. And it's quite clear giving. The last forty years of Roman history. If they try him they're gonna killing. And that's the only way they can containing. And so he's negotiating saying, oh, I wanna be peaceful. I really wanna work all this out down with that. My my army guy can't get something. Well, when they finally figure out, no. Gonna kill you. We're not gonna order something out. What they reckon on was. He had already said his units in motion and first legion could get to the Rubicon days, and they could send signal fires all the way through go. So he's mobilizing a force. Very fast. Meanwhile, his major opponent, Hoppy was the great general before Cesar tune saw him Caesar as the dominant figure very successful very well organized, but a little slow and insecure where we're Caesar. Thanks. Come to send it from the guys. I might as well gamble because the guys will be there for me Pompey kind of things, you know, I'm the Senate from normal people on the sky SESAR scares me. Nice. Papyrus Magnus, we would call pumping great came out of a provincial talion background. It's an interesting contrast, very competent man, very hard working, man. He actually cleans up all the pirates in the eastern Mediterranean and his widely seen as a tremendous organizer of military forces. But in the end, he's not descended from the gods. He doesn't represent one of the oldest families in Rome. He doesn't have this aristocratic sense of destiny, which is the heart of what makes Caesar so remarkable. And so Pompey who's proud. He's competent he's powerful. But he's normal and he's trying to cope with somebody. Who's AB normal popular smart? But Pompey was not he didn't know that quickness that sudden political skill that Caesar head, and he didn't have the ability to plan at three or four or five level simultaneously. And the result was I think that Caesar. Always frightened him and always confused him. Every general ever studied Caesar's on the shortlist of people. You cannot give spare time to because he will use it and use it better than you will so Pompey leaves Italy. Now, the reason this really matters. And this is why when you visit Rome, and you look at the Coliseum and you look at the forum, and you just just think to yourself. This was a city of over a million people at the time we're talking about it was the center of the Mediterranean world. It had symbolism. It's Rome guy who gives up wrong gives up some Bali all of the emotional and moral power and Caesar walks into Rome. Here's a Quiring all of the authority of being in Rome is also the center of money in the center of commerce so season overnight is able to start chasing Pompey's forces everywhere and Caesar has better divisions. VS people. Who've been practicing warfare seven years. They are loyal to him. Sadly for him is top Lieutenant actually leaves enjoins Pompey think Caesar will lose things to Caesar's breaking the rules, and that makes us feel bad. But he sends all of his all of his equipment to him and his, you know, quit agreed seven years. Sorry side of the guy could lose. And so Caesar wonders around the Mediterranean defeating the various forces on the other side ending up with chasing Pompey all the way to Egypt where the gyp shins and free at the pompous. Loser side, they will cut off his head and give it to Caesar because you know, they wanna show sees how much they like it. Well, then fought about the fact that harmony was married to Caesar's daughter and were friends while the happened this disagreement, which led to a civil war. It's very likely Caesar would not have killed pommel. And sees it was genuinely play offended who's they would of civil war in Egypt. Between Cleopatra in her brother and her brothers the one who cut off poppies head. And so he's sides with her fights civil war defeats the army fights civil war. There's a moment where the Romans are being siged in Alexandria. And it's true during the siege. The act the great library Alexander's burn down whether by Caesar's people by the gypsies. We don't have different size that store a great loss. Huge collection of Rico. Any works that burn one night. But anyhow, they're they're in the regular Romans of getting very nervous, the really worried, and why Caesar not worrying, and he said I'm waiting, and they what what what are you waiting for waiting? Go what happens to talk? So son was I thought you knew what didn't tell him was that two months earlier in order ordered his legions to come from Syria. And he knew that they were few miles outside of town. And that's very much like Caesar and see Caesar's ability to play seven games simultaneously. I not tell you about any of them maisy. And again, a main him and people people at one level, we're awestruck by and another level. They were really frightened because the essence of the Roman model was to balance power. So nobody had too much power and to have a system in which the very structure of the system limited the ability to lead to dictate what had been happening was to this long hundred year period, dictators kept killing people and establish the Paranal view. On the losing side, not a huge jump from one to jail to being kill. And that's was we happen to them. And so you saw this continuous process. Even the people who were four Caesar worried because Caesar audibly represented the end of the Republic, and he Representative Salish a new system power. They had had since the last two talkin king was kicked out and four seventy six BC Romans had a passion against kinship long stretch. There were a few anybody thought you thinking you're going to become a king you gone. And now all of a sudden, here's a guy who by share power sheer brilliance is clearly the central figure becomes dictator for life. Not yet. King doesn't wanna be king just happen to be dictator. And so a group of people who begin to really worry that the system is right at tilt in. If they don't do something. That in fact Republicans, and that's why you end up with the SAS nation in March of forty four BC. When we come back Caesar faces of Senate who Jellison his power decides to murder him. An unfair -ly discharged marine with dark secret. A brilliant intelligence officer recovering from tragedy. This unlikely pair are brought together to stop a deadly Russian plot against the heart of the American system. Number one, New York Times bestselling authors nuking bridge and Pete early return with a new series filled with action and intrigue that captures the tensions and divides of America and the world today collusion, a novel by new Gingrich available on Amazon dot com and audible now. One of the fascinating aspects of Caesar's life was the impact of his death because it became one of the most historic moments in all of western history, partially because of the brilliant portrait in Shakespeare's play and the speech by Mark Antony at his funeral partially because Caesar had been such a life force he'd been so dominant. He strode across the Roman empire in such a huge way that his disappearance through death left a vacuum. That would take years to sort out because there was no natural ability for anyone to step in and become Caesar. And so they'll be an entire civil war before he was replaced by his nephew who would actually found the empire itself. Off tavis who becomes Augusta's in his the second month. We name for one of the Caesar's. So you July and August Caesar himself in a way it almost set the stage for his own killing the Greeks had a concept they called hubris and hubris meant that you began to take on to yourself enormous power in enormous self affection, and as you became more and more filled with hubris you began to set yourself up for what the Greeks called nemesis and nemesis was the destruction of the person who had hubris well away Caesar is the perfect model of what the Greeks were trying to warn about the bigger Caesar became the more powerful Caesar became the more people feared him and the more people envied him. Remember the core. This isn't the average Roman. Average woman thought Caesar was fine. Cesar fed them Caesar entertain. Name them Caesar conquered slaves that enrich them associated pretty big base among normal people. But if you're an aristocrat, and you had a great sense of self worth. And you thought your family been around for hundreds of years and here, suddenly you're in the shadow no longer unequal. No longer a fellow aristocrat. No longer a person who could look upon themselves as significant. But instead, you are clearly weaker lesser subordinate smaller, and you hated every minute of it. And you thought who this guy sees that? He's flaunting his power his flaunting his role in history because there was a sense that the bigger Caesar got the smaller the aristocrats got so part of the just pure, old fashioned jealousy. Well, Cesar had now accumulated very substantial number of of aristocrats who just loved him. The couldn't. Senate to his face because they're terrified of him because he'd kill them. So they talked to each other and quiet. They met together. They began conspiring was the second part of this. There was a legitimate honest, deep fear of kingship, it's important wherever the Rome really becomes Roman four seventy six BC when the hit rid of the last king the last Harkin king is replaced and the Romans acquire this deep passionate opposition to having a king. That's why the Republicans so stable for such a long period because in their mind, the alternative is to go back to kingship while now here Caesar who says every day. Oh, I don't really want to be a king. But in the last days before the the ides of March he and Mark Anthony begin to play a game in which are canton, who's chief subordinate starts to say. Oh, well, wouldn't you consider being a king? He's says, no, no, no, nothing's further from my mind. And I really I can't imagine why you would mention the word king and Julius Caesar in the same sentence. Well, the other novels. No, this is the beginning of a setup and that at some point that summer that seasons very likely going to say, well, all right. If you really want me to be king. How can I turn you down? She have both this fear. That Caesar represents the end of the Republic in the death of a system, which was almost five hundred years old by the stage, and you had this personal level of just really deeply disliking Caesar because he's too big too powerful to arrogant too smart, and they just wanna get rid of him conspiracy begins to grow and ironically, the Roman Senate self was being refitted. And so they had to move that meeting place. They chose a poppy sitter. Remembering of course, Pompey was the great leader who sees her head defeated in the early. Earlier civil war. So now, they're going down to poppies theater, which was a quite spectacular place and gonna meet the rumor comes supposedly from a soothsayer who could see the future the Caesar should be wear the ides of March. It was apparently real enough that his wife begged him not to go to that meeting of the Senate that day this apparent is not just a fiction of Shakespeare's making. But actually at the time was a real event. Caesar course, I think at two different things going on one was he was very skeptical of these kind of things he didn't he didn't particularly worry about soothsayers telling him he's going to win or lose anything. But the other was I think that he had the sense of destiny if it was his destiny to be killed, then he would become a martyr for Rome. If it was his destiny to stay alive. Then he would continue to be the leader who was a had become dictator, which was a step below kingship. He would continue simply to run Rome. And I think he sort of thought in that sense. There's there's a fatalism and Caesar that run Susan tire life, and you can see it over and over again where he wrist if any risk defeat because he just believes you have to roll the dice and see what's going to happen for versus entire life. He'd rolled the dice and he'd won. So he goes to Pompey's theatre that day. And there were there may have been up to sixty nobles who had gotten together all the number who actually attacked him a much smaller number. He knew that a number of them disliked. But part of the reason they disliked it was he had contempt for them. So since he had contempt for them. He wasn't gonna be afraid of them. And he deliberately dismisses his security force because he wants to communicate. I'm not afraid of you guys. I don't need to be surrounded by police to protect me because you guys have the guts to do anything anyway. Well that particular day he was wrong when. He goes in the senators who hated him surrounded supposedly civilians Casca hits the strikes the first blow hitting him in the neck drawing. Blood other senators join in and he is hit again, and again and again around the head in the neck, Marcus Brutus of parents wounds him in the groin, at least that's the traditional legend and Caesar said to send to you to my child or at tube Bruti as a became translated in later years. There was a rumor which probably wasn't true. But it was a really delicious rumor that Brutus in fact was his illegitimate son. He certainly had had a long relationship with Buddhist as mother, but given the relative ages, it's unlikely that is really his son. But it's clear that Buddhist really dislike Caesar probably part because he objected to Caesar sleeping with his mother. Then I was having Caesar had with a substantial number of women around the Roman aristocracy, which probably further lead to people being willing. To kill him. So Caesar dies. And it's as though a great force has left the world. And I think a one level they're all staring each other going. Oh my God. We really didn't. And then they're faced with. So how do we deal with the Roman crowd? Because the Roman crowd initially was very pro Caesar Caesar been very good to them and he had improved their lives. He paid attention to them. He was popularity's. He was interested in the people rather than the stock Crecy. So they said basically we saved Rome from dictatorship. Mark Antony speaking that the funeral gives an Asian. It's pretty clear that when the assassins were done speaking they were in pretty good shape by the time. Mark Antony was done speaking. They're all sneaking out of town because the mob has turned and the mob. Clearly now will tear them apart. And this is a penny. Really an actual fact of that particular day that in one origin. Mark Antony who had been Caesar's deputy is able to convince people, oh, I could never speak well of Caesar because we've all been told me these honorable men how evil Caesar is. And we know these are honorable men, and therefore I can't say anything good about Caesar. And so I'm not even sure I should read you Caesar's will which Caesar who, you know, loved you so much has written. But it would be wrong of me to read this well in which Caesar loved you so much because we've all been told how evil scissors by these honorable men, and this goes on and on a crowd after after after a while the crop to go where he the well we want to hear the well. Well, of course, the will is a perfectly political document. And which Caesar's basically said, I love Rome, so much that everything I have goes to you the people of Rome, and then aunts, and it has to say well. Now, we can't be grateful to Caesar for having loved as so much because we've all been told by these honorable men that he was a tyrant that he was a bad person. So I'm sure none of you. When want us to execute his will and give everybody all the things Caesar wants you to have to be so wrong to do that. When these honorable men have told you the Caesar was bad, and of course, but this point combination of emotion, ingred and memory, and frankly, the aristocrats are not very they're not free. Nice people and the average person in Rome new that and Ariza person Rome knew that the number one reason aristocrats didn't like Caesar was because they're aristocrats. And by the way, they weren't going to be nice to the people either. And it's apparently is true historically that by the end of Antony speaking, the aristocrats who killed Caesar had left Rome to get away before the crowd attack them is truly a remarkable moment. And in that. Process Cesar had set the stage by his death. And by his will by Antony who understood him and by his young nephew Octavius who had been apprenticed to Caesar Caesar. Brought him in Cesar had him travel with him Caesar take anyone the wars and tovia learned an immense amount where Caesar shatters and ends the Republic. He doesn't actually create a stable system. And that's part of why he gets killed but his nephew. Now. His nephew will come along. Take over the family business takeover Caesar's name and in the process of stablishment empire, which will ask for four hundred years, and as truly remarkable because nobody on the day Caesar was killed could have picked tavis out as the long-term winner. He was totally underestimated way everyone and yet he learned so much from his uncle and he knew how to play being the nephew. The only person who could claim to be Julius Caesar's heir was Octavius. And that may have been what automatically after death who scissors last grade contribution to the history of Rome and the history of the western world. If you'd like to know more of Julius Caesar we've created a show page of of my favorite books plays and movies about him at Newt swirl dot com. Newsworld is produced by Westwood One. The executive producers Debbie Meyers, our producers Garnsey slum. Our editor is Robert Broschi are researchers Rachel Peterson the artwork for the show was created by Steve penalty. The music was composed by Joey salvia special. Thanks team again, which we sixty and Westwood one's. Tim Savion and Robert Mathur's, please subscribed. A new twirled on apple podcast Spotify Google play wherever you get entertaining podcast on the next episode of neutral five g technology has going to fundamentally change the way we live our lives. Find out why it's referred to as the next industrial revolution. Newt Gingrich. This is new twelve The Westwood One podcast network. Everyone's listening.
#487: Leadership Lessons From the 3 Greatest Ancient Commanders
"This episode of the art of Manley's podcast is brought to you by Wrangler. Whether you ride a bike, a Bronx skateboard or do all three Wrangler jeans or for you classic or mater styles range of fits all price points, vintage releases. Wrangler has something for everyone. Visit ringler dot com and check out their selection of jeans shirts at our for men and women new styles. Great fits Wrangler real, comfortable jeans. The art of manliness podcast Alexander. The great Hannibal Julius Caesar three the greatest generals of antiquity, but what made them great what clean learn from the leadership. My guess explores these questions book masters of command Alexsandr annual Cesar genius of leadership. His name is Barry Strauss. Classes in military historian at Cornell University Taylor show, we discussed the traits all three of these men possess that made such great military leaders, including Dasan ambition and a little bit of luck very walks through the five stages of or that each of these legendary commanders navigated were each thrived flounder, very then makes the case that will Alexander Hannibal and Caesar each experience excessiveness short term in the long run all failed which either ultimate aims because they became victims of their own success Weiner conversation discussing what these commanders shortcomings can teach modern meters kind of field in whether it's possible to be both a bold visionary leader and a great manager after shows over check at our show knows that AM dot IS slash masters of command. Very strauss. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Great to be here. So you are a classicist military historian, and you've written this book masters of command Alexander Hannibal Caesar in the genius of leadership any used these guys these great generals to explore. What makes a great military leader? How did you decide on these three guys and compare and contrast them, well, it was kind of easy to choose them? They really are the big three of ancient military history and knows famous generals. I would say and also they come as a set Hannibal look back on Alexsandr as his role model and so did Caesar each of them in a way measured himself against Alexander. So the three of them really are a set of great generals. They're very famous. They have fantastic authors. Write about them from the ancient world, they remembered today still influence. Generals today soldiers are still studied. So it was easy to choose them. And all the other thing that you that you did really well as you as you compared to contrast them their military for there was a pattern to those very similar amongst all three of them. Yes. So I chose them. Because each of them was a risk taker each of them loved mobile warfare, each of them started a war against an enemy who in principle was unbeatable. The enemy in each case outnumber them, greatly had more financial resources and had a much greater navy. They either had no navy or a a much smaller navy and yet each of them defeated his enemy in hannibal's case, of course, in the end he lost. But he wants spectacular victories. Alexander Caesar did indeed a defeat his enemy and each of them in spite of great military success in a certain meta political success. None. The three of them was able to achieve his final goal. None of the three of them was able to cheat the settlement that he wanted. So there's something sad about them as well. And we'll get into why they didn't achieve their final goal blitz. Kind of like just some rough thumbnail sketch these guys because we've heard lots about him. I mean, they're they're sort of icons of western history. Western culture, we have cultural references to them. You know, Caesar crossing the Rubicon where Hannibal, you know, the elephants through the Alps. So let's talk about Alexander. So all these guys were risk, takers. But you know, what else about Alexander that that we often gets overlooked about him. So Alexander was a king. And he was the son of a great conqueror. His father was Philip of mass on the man who really put mass not on the map and took mass on from being kind of a wreck a messed up chaotic state, but potential only outside of the Greek world it brought into the center he unified it. He created military system conquered all of Greek city, states and prepared. Acid on for what he saw as his life's work, which speak going to war against the Persian empire. This giant, but giant to the east Macedonia, but one that seemed to have been passed its prime Alexander inherited this as a young man at age twenty when his father was assassinated and not many people were convinced Alexander was up to the task and could equal with the great man had done. But in fact, he was every bit up to the task. And did what is father wanted to do? And then some so he was he'd been prepared all his life for war. He already commanded the Macedonian cavalry in a battle. When he was eighteen a now, he showed himself to be every inch a king and ready to take his country to to next step. So he had a great preparation. Also. He his father had prepared him. All the way he had given him the greatest tutor imaginable. His tutors none other than Aristotle the premier philosopher of the ancient world. Alexander was highly intelligent. His mother was a stormy brilliant woman named Olympia who convinced her son that he was unstoppable. He believed that through his mother Alexander believed that he was descended from none. Other than the Greek hero achilles. Here of epic. Alexander took achilles as his role model in a way in some ways great role model Alexander achilles was Greece's greatest warrior and the hero of its most important literary work the Iliad. But achilles also tragic figures somebody who died young never succeeded in conquering Troy, so. Paradoxical choice on Alexander's are but lucky chilies geared for greatness. And so why did he why did his father, and why did he decide to conquer the Persians? Like, what was it that they hoped would happen after they conquered the Persians and then not only to Alexander want to conquer the Persians. But he also wanted to go on and conquer the rest of Asia. Like why? So the Persian empire was the greatest empire that not only degree world, but the world period, the great stem part of the world has ever seen and it controlled an empire that stretched about three thousand miles from what is nowadays western Turkey. All the way to what is nowadays, the the Indo Pakistani border so enormous empire enormous wealth enormous power, but it was week series of revolts over over decades the Greek mercenary army. Had fought its way through the empire defeated a Persian army and in made its way home successfully the Persians by the same token had interfered in Greek wars over the decades is well, so the two sides agreed versions had been at war with each other for Philip Alexander. It just looked like it was right for the taking. They believed that they could conquer this empire, or at least part of it and bring it under their control. If you wanted to look at a more noble motive will the western part of the Persian empire much of it. Consisted of Greek speakers who were under Persian control and Philip Alexander Macedonians in the Greeks could have thought, well, we can liberate these people from the Persians so bit more complicated because some of them are perfectly happy to Persian rule in didn't want to be liberated and some of the Greeks felt that they were the oppress ones because now the Macedonians control them, but mostly it was the power. Power. The will the glory the possibility of expanding being agreed conqueror. This was something that for for kings in the ancient world was a no brainer. Conquest you you wanted to be a great conquer K that will come back also to bite him in the bud possibly later on. We'll talk about that. But let's move onto Hannibal hannibal's interesting character because he is from Carthage and a lot of people they know of Carthage in the ancient world, but they don't know really what role it played in the ancient world. It's an Africa. Tell us about Hannibal. What what he was trying to do? Like Alexander Hannibal was the son of a great generalize. Father Hamill car. Marco was Carthage is leading commander. He can successfully committed Carthaginians forces in the first Punic war, although the Carthaginians lost that water room. Hammock are himself was undefeated. Then he came back to North Africa and put down a rebellion by the mercenary troops in Carthage is army. And then he left Carthage left North Africa went to Spain and carved out a new empire for Carthage in the south of Spain. He brought his young son Hannibal with him to Spain and raised him to be a great soldier. He also raised in Tate, Rome. There's a story. We don't know if it's true or legend that at the age of nine his father made Hannibal swear on an altar to not rest until he won revenge on Rome Carthage and Rome where the two greatest military and political powers of the central Mediterranean, and they clashed in the middle of the third century b c in a war for control of the island of Sicily for centuries. Carthage it controlled the western part of Sicily was eager to take over the eastern part Rome jumped into the Sicilian waters in the middle of the third century and decided to try to push car. Outta sicily. Very audacious thing to do. But the Roman succeeded in war that lasted a generation Fung Lee, succeeded by winning this war on C. And as I said Hamlin hannibal's father bounce back undefeated himself from this war in bounced back by winning Carthage in new empire in the south of Spain. He's killed in battle when Hannibal still young man. He's succeeded replaced by hannibal's brother-in-law one hannibal's brother-in-law. Intern is killed the army turns to Hannibal as their new commander and Hannibal has been grund by his father to be a great general. And he himself is a brilliant talented. Charismatic visionary leader who's utterly up to the task. And give us some background here of some context. This was Rome. They're fighting room. When Rome was a Republic. Correct. Yes. And this was not too long after Alexandra. I mean one thing I would. It was interesting is that these guys were within just a few hundred years of each other. Yeah. So Alexandra dies in three twenty three BC and Hannibal takes cannibals born in to forty seven BBC's a less than a century later. The first war between the Roman Republican Carthaginians Republican both republics takes place new years to sixty forty two forty one BC in in two eighteen the new war between Rome in Hannibal. The second unit wars is called or hannibal's wars is sometimes called that's one that war breaks out so little over century after the death of Alexander in. What was hannibal's military aim by taking on the Romans? Hannibal's military aims to full first of all the Romans threaten Carthage is new empire in Spain Hannibal wanted secure that pyre and get the Romans out of his hair. Secondly, he wanted destroy the Roman confederacy. So rooms power rested on its alliance system in central Italy, Carthage is power rested on the line systems. Well, but the Roman alliance was particularly formidable, but usually strong, and what Hannibal wanted to do was to break this alliance up to wage the drive away between Rome and its allies to pry them apart and to deprive room of the ability to threaten Carthage ever again in the future. He didn't want to destroy the city of Rome that wasn't his plan was beyond him. He knew he simply wanted to break Roman power. I say simply it was a huge undertaking. But it wanted to make sure that Rome could no longer threatened Carthage move onto Caesar in. This again Caesar wasn't too long after Hannibal. So was it Caesar's in case because he was an individual who actually invaded his home country. Tell us about that for those aren't familiar? Yes. So Hannibal dies in one eighty three BC Caesar's born eighty three. Years later in one hundred BC Caesar was a member of the Roman aristocracy. Unlike cannibal Alexander, it didn't have a father who was a great general his father was a politician commander. But but not absolutely of the first rank, but Caesar burned with an addition, even as a young man, he was a soldier any one very high military honor. He started a political career early on. And he wanted to become top dog in Rome and he wanted to succeed succeed both in politics. And in the military and his career is successful in both of those areas in his forties. He takes on a great undertaking. He decides he wants to conquer Gaul and goal is basically, France and Belgium in our turns he undertakes a war against the various peoples of goal. They are warlike, but disorganized. They. Don't have the discipline or the the managerial skill Replogle skill that the Romans have nonetheless, it is not an easy thing to conquer them. And Caesar carries it off in a series of lightning campaigns. Take about a decade, he becomes the conqueror of France and Belgian as well as a little bit of Germany an evening Dede's Britain over he doesn't conquering for Rome is not able to keep it. It makes him one of Rome's greatest generals ever in all the history of the Roman Republic. Also makes the wealthiest man in the Roman world. He want his ambitious to go back to Italy. And to win every honour there is and to win the height of political power and to be recognized by the other members of the nobility that governed the Roman Republic recognized as the first man in raw is political enemies think that Caesar is just too much. I think he's to embarrass too egotistical that he will never respect them share power with them equally. So they decide to try to get rid of him the Roman Senate actually takes his command away from him. They fire him, and as general and say put down your arms Caesar instead decides to go to war against his own country. A begins a civil war to defend what he says both of all the rights of the Roman people because he is a champion of the poor. But also defend his own status is owned dignity is owned rank in his own honor. So one thing that's already popped up to me as you described these three guys in their aides. It was both a mixture. Just personal ambition personal glory. But the also I dunno presented as they were using for something larger for the greater good for everyone else. Absolut absolutely true Alexander in Alexander said that he was invading. The Persian empire actually said he was doing it to get revenge for the Persian invasion of Greece a hundred and fifty years earlier when the Persians had taken the city of Athens for for time and burned the temples of the gods on the union Acropolis, any also said he was going to liberate the Greeks under Persian rule Hannibal wanted to get revenge for his own country, Roma don't bring country national security when he got the Italy also said he was there to liberate the Italians Italy for the Italians was hannibal's motto and Caesar, of course, said that he was fighting both for the rights freedom of the Roman people. But also for the rank in honor that report. Him. And that were actually the cement of the Roman political system. Just as Americans today might for example, sites for freedom more, generally, so a Roman Mike light for honor and rank. So let's talk about these these guys shared in that led to their success also their failure. So you mentioned already that all three of them were a credible risk-takers. But you also say there's other attributes they all shared in varying degrees. Sure. Well, you knew they were all immensely and bishops in ancient Greek word for ambition is love of honor. And I think that really works for all three of them. They were also what the ancients called a great sold, man. They had enormously high pingers themselves in aimed at great things. Abraham LINCOLN spoke about these kind of men as members of what he called the tribe of the eagle, and he said that members of the stride achieve great things, but they can be to. Allies into their own society. And I think that's true of all three of them. They had some other qualities as well. First of all, they had great leadership skills both in politics and in war. They had very good judgment. And they were able to make decisions on a fly. A that's also tremendously important to them. They did not need to take a lot of time to agonize over their decisions with takers is I mentioned they also showed great agility, they were flexible, they were able to rule with the punches they excelled in more than one form of warfare. For instance. They they're all great commanders inset battles. But they also had the ability to engage either in unconventional warfare or in sieges. They all had access to create infrastructure to great resources money and manpower. None of them could. Done what he did without access to a great military. They were strategists both in the literal turn sense of the term in in. Ancient Greek Stratus is a general, but they also had the vision thing as the lake George Bush could put it they were able to think big in a headed grand strategy as well. Sad to say they will all capable of terror. They're all capable of killing innocent people in order to make their point in the all engaged in terror on a lighter note, they were Agena says and branding at marketing it selling themselves and taking simple themes, putting them forward. So that the mass of their soldiers could understand it and the masses at home could understand it as well. And they were all lucky Napoleon said that he wanted to have lucky generals. I would say that their luck with so extraordinary that we have to call it something else fortune, or if you will divine providence nothing else can explain the way things just broke right for each of them at various points in his career. What are some examples of that of things breaking right for them? Just because of dumb luck for these three guys. So Alexander had a very dangerous enemy whose name no-one is heard of his name is ma'am, non roads. Here's a Greek general was mercenary inservice of the Persians and men on came up with the brilliant strategy of taking the war home to grease. The Persian king gave him the resources to have an enormous navy that outclassed Alexandra Cheney navy and minimal launched an offensive to cross the ASEAN island to island hop the John and land a large army back. In greece. That would have forced Alexandra to turnarounds Orleans campaign and go five in his homeland immensely successful strategy. And then suddenly men on da is in the midst of the campaign. It's really unexpected. So unexpected in a modern novelist claims whose poisoned a Macedonian plot. But in fact, he probably is in a stroke or heart attack, natural causes. But that's just immensely lucky for him to happen at this particular time. Caesar has a number of moments when he is almost killed in battle. But he suffice it, and that's lucky is will hannibal's immensely lucky in that the Romans play exactly into his strategic cans Hannibal wants the Romans to fight pitched battles against him. Why for heads? Tried to prevail in Roman got them to say, we can't do this. Instead, we should adopt the scorched earth policy and not give out about once fighting the battle. But instead in the end, they lose out in the political debates in Rome in the Romans decide to feel the biggest army they ever could. Onto the battlefield and use this defied Hannibal. He couldn't have asked for something better is playing exactly into his head. So that's an example of dumb luck really helping him. So all these guys had these attributes varying degrees, but did some of them like possessed more of them than the other, for example, where was someone more ambitious or more willing to take risk than others? I don't think that I think they were all equally ambitious and risk-takers I would say that Caesar has a remarkable ability to be strategic about his risk taking in strategic terms Caesar was actually fairly cautious strategically he one of the reasons he so successful is that he balances tactical risk with strategic cautioned, for example after conquest the Rubicon and conquering Italy, he was tempted to cross the Adriatic and follow his leading enemy Pompey as army to the east to fight a battle in Greece. But he knew that Pompey had tremendous allied armies in Spain on Caesar's, western flank. So instead of doing the ultra risky thing in crossing unto Greece Caesar instead decides to March against pump. These armies in Spain and protect his flank before turning eastward for the climactic battle. So Caesar is really good at balancing risk with calculation. In other terms. I would say that Hannibal is by far the best battlefield command. All three of them are really great battlefield commanders. But nobody quite has the really amazing agility that Hannibal shows on the battlefield the ability to know, just how to calculate the use of force, for example. So the battle of Gettysburg famous begins when Robert Lee loses control of his army. He tells them don't start a fight with the union army, but they don't listen to him, and they do and so Lee is forced into the spaniel Hannibal faces a similar situation in northern Italy. When his men disobeyed his command trodden for broke about the Romans Hannibal pulls him back and handle punishes them and manages to make sure that he doesn't have to fight a battle. Unfavorable terms that kind of thing. Troll of his military that really makes Hannibal outstanding. And as far as branding. Well, Alexandra really is the great master of branding. He makes sure that he has the greatest sculptors of his day present his image to the other Greeks in a series of statues in the statue of Alexander still immensely famous. We see them in in all the great museums of the world on top of that he has himself proclaimed a God. And this has some residents. He comes up with a new title for himself, the king of Asia Persian kings, never call themselves, the king of Asia before and his men expected him to be the mirror king of Massa. And finally when he gets into Persian lands. He strategically takes on certain items of Persian dress in order to appeal to his new subject. So he's able to look ways to both be a Greek hero at all. Be someone who would appeal to the Persians ferry flexible when it comes to marketing very very cunning as well. Didn't maybe I remember incorrectly. Didn't Alexander go. Visit the grave of achilles. Or they thought the grave was. Yes, you did. So Greeks had set up a colony at what they thought was Troy, they called Ilya was a Greek city and one of the first things that Alexsandr did when he crossed the Hellas bond and went to Persian territory was he made a pilgrimage to the tomb of his ancestor of chilies. This was also something that would resonate will with the Greeks and show, the how much he respected Greek culture, the worst some Greeks who said that as a Macedonian Alexander wasn't even a Greek and he had no claim to Greek nece. But this was a way for Alexander shrewdly to show that he was every inch. Agreed. Thanks for bringing that up that the branding the personal branding their. We're gonna take quick break for more sponsors everyman looks better. Feels more confident when he puts on a suit. That's what I need to check out. Indochino Indochino is the world's most exciting. Maiden is your menswear company with suits insures that fit your exact measurements for unparalleled comfort. 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Get any premium suit for just three hundred fifty dollars and free shipping is incredible deal for premium made-to-measure suit, go check it out Indochino dot com. Promo code manliness also by shape or so we've episodes on the pot. Cast discussing networking for your career. And one of the things that's always stood out to me. I've talked to these networking experts. Is that weak ties are often the things that advance your career? The most weak ties aren't like related with your family or your close friends are like friends of friends acquaintances acquaintances of acquaintances if you want to increase number of weak ties, your professional network each shaper. It's no more professional networking platform. And it uses your experience interest in goals, you make the right connections with you're looking for investors. Co-founder new job opportunities. Just inspiring conversations shaper khaki to professionals who truly want to share tips and help each day suggests fifteen people with similar goals and interest for you to meet then all you have to do is take a few minutes swipe through your daily profiles, find connection someone who's like a right fit said of a coffee with those individuals and start talking business to professional the shape wrap should be installed on your phone of giving her world's pretty cool the on boarding process. Pretty easy. Tell what your goals are which are looking for with the app as far as networking goes. And then you can find people in your area who will trying to do the same thing. So if you can download the app shaper? It's S H A P R or you can check out shaper online at shaper dot CO, shaper dot CO. Not shaeber dot com. Shaper dot CO shaper S H A P, R dot CO. To learn more about shaper. Download the app improve the way you network and now back to the show. You all throughout the book. Besides highlighting different attributes that all these guys had you all talk. There's five stages of war that all three of them saw in that each stage has its own dangers to it. So what are these stages in? We talk about where these guys excelled at our floundered at afterwards. So what I call the five stages of war, the first is attack while you have to have a battle plan, and you have to have a way of beginning. The second is resistance as the saying goes no battle plan survives contact with the enemy. And so they had to decide what to do when the enemy struck back. The third is clash they had to come up with a way to force the enemy to confront one on the model sealed and to win, but it's not enough to win a bout of the degree or series of battles victories that brings us to the fourth stage, which is closing the net or sealing the deal. Well, if you will getting the enemy to admit that he has been defeated and to be willing to make terms for peace. And then finally the last stage knowing when to stop knowing when to stop, and this is in some ways, the most difficult stage for a conqueror because the same reasons that make men join the tribe of the eagle makes it very difficult for them to step down and go into a cage as it were. Well, let's was walk through. You know, these five sage say Alexander's, we can see that in action. They're so elegant is plan is to take the Macedonian army and to cross the hell spont- with the help of his small navy, and then to get the Persian army to agree to find him in the thing that he's really good at which is a pitched battle. The macedonian. Army is the greatest army in the world. When it comes to battlefield confrontation. Luckily for him the Persians. Play white into his hand instead of doing what would have been wiser to do to engage in a scorched earth policy and not fighting. They agreed to fight a battle. In fact, a series of battles against him three great battles in which Alexander is able to defeat the resistance and to carry out the clash which is defeating the Persian army inset battles purchase still is a very strong country, and it still has military sources Alexander Heston. No at a close the net, which he does but invading Iran going after the remaining Persian army and defeating them. Now comes the more difficult stage the Persians retreat into their central Asian redoubts. He decides to convince his army that that now have to March into the stands if you will spec. Stan, touchy, STAN even. Curious Dan in order to defeat the Persian army and to engage in unconventional tactics in atrial asymmetric warfare. They're no longer fighting pitched battles. They are engaging hit and run rain raids. They're fighting to rain at Alexandra's not used to any has to retool. His army to fight in these these conditions also has to accept rather large casualties. But he pulls all that off. Then unfortunately, L the decides this is not enough. He wants more he wants to cross the Hindu Kush and to invade the Greeks called India for us that's Pakistan as well as India. This is dragging his men much further than they wanna go into climactic conditions. The monsoon that they don't wanna deal with UNLV. Eliza does win a pitch battle. There is men mutiny, and he is forced to go back to what is now become his base. Ace just babble on the Persian capital. In message patina in southern Iraq. At this point. You would say okay Alexander conquered the Persian empire. You're in your early thirties. You've had your fun. It's time to settle down to put your stamp on this empire and to create a dynasty that can succeed. You. But always ended does not agree. Instead, he is planning a new military expedition to conquer Arabia, which probably mostly be the coast of of Arabia the Arabian peninsula. It's a joint land sea operation, and he is hatching plans to go to war to turn west and go to war both both against Carthage and against the Roman Republic. So for Alexander that there is no limit. He wants to carry a war without end. But just before he launched his the Arabian expedition. He dies unexpectedly just before his thirty third birthday in June of the year. Three twenty three b c probably he died of a virus? If iris that might have been made worse, by the fact that he had had seven battle wounds in his years of fighting Semnan serious. But there is. Minority opinion. Ancient sources that say that says that he was Persian that he was poisoned minority opinion. Ancient sources that says that he was poisoned by his own men because they were terrified of him. And they wanna keep fighting. There's not side chance. That's true. So L Zander is supreme example, somebody didn't know when to stop. And also the other thing that upset his men talk about as he was becoming too much of a Persian that I had that of these taking Persian wide Asian wives dressing, like a Persian kind of thing himself as a Persian these. Everyone's like, wait, you're Macedonian. Why are you doing that? This is a problem conquerors often have it's not just Alexander. When you conquer a new territory, you can't simply crush the new people if conquered you need to somehow make your peace with them. This is special true of ancient armies 'cause they don't have the technology either communications military anyway to control these areas without getting some degree of cooperation in the people that they have conquered. They need to get buying and Alexander's way of getting buying was to be able to say to his new subjects. I wanna you guys on not just the Greco Macedonian who come into make your life miserable. But I respect your customs. I'm going to I'm going to meet you half way Alexander meets them halfway. And then some as you said, he takes Persian wives or Iranian wise. He takes wives who come from the east any also recruits Iranians to serve in his new army. Any forces men to take your rainy unwise as well. We're going to give birth to sons from the point of view of Macedonians are half breeds. They would have called them. They would if they were racist. And they would have looked down on many people ancient world racist. It's not specific to the Macedonians or the Greeks. But Alexander is looking at a broader canvas. And in a way, he's remarkably unraced as he wants to create this new army. This new ruling group that will be a mixture of Greeks and Macedonians actually famous against banquet in which he praised for peace, and harmony peace in harmony between the Macedonians and the Persians to us. This looks like a noble ideal to the Macedonians this is well, we went to war for massive to conquer these people. We didn't go to war to make friends with them or to mate with them or to create sons who will be half. Persian Alexandra's taking his men far. I want wanna go. And so this is a great example of, you know, Alexander he was successful in the short term with military, and he did invade Persia and conquered most of Asia a lot of Asia. But after he died that thing just collapsed because he was so busy conquering and expanding that he didn't really spend time building infrastructure for the newly acquired territory that he got. No, exactly, right. I mean Alexander what we needed to do was to create a dynasty and to ensure that he would have heirs who would follow him a who would be able to keep this new vast new empire together. And he also needed to work on the analogy of the empire, the rationale for he needed to build up a ruling group that was going to be loyal to him. Instead he dies just before his thirty third birthday supposedly on his deathbed. When asked who he wanted to leave? Is empire to supposedly. He said to the strongest meaning that he knew that there were going to be new that there was going to be a civil war in. There was though civil wars lasts for fifty years. They're very bloody by the time. They're done. The person's haven't come back is empire is in greco-macedonian hands. But it's split up into a series of successor kingdoms no-one is able to hold together this thing that Alexander conquered. And that paves the way for the Roman Republic to rise in. Let's talk about Hannibal verse where did he flounder out in this five stages because he did? Well, it seemed like a lot of them. He did. I mean, the attack was brilliant. He marched a land army gnawing miles from southern Spain over the bureau knees over the Rhone river, including ticking elephants over the Rhone river. And then over the Alps in the winter and lands in northern Italy. He loses most of his army so to to. Desertion to the weather to resistance from tribes. We meet along the way. So he's not there in northern big on me he wanted, but he merely gets new allies and wins a series of victories over the Romans in a defeats them. Cavalry battle in northern Italy. Then a combined arms battle in northern Italy than crashing defeat in central Italy at lake trasding. And finally is greatest victory of all the one go down in history books. The battle of Kenny August second to sixteen b c in which he crushes a Roman army in the plains of southern Italy. And he's convinced that the Romans are now giving what he wants that they're gonna surrender. There's northern Italy in southern Italy of risen in revolt on the side of Hannibal against the room Republican against the Roman alliance. But as one of hannibal's commander cyst him afterwards, you know, how to win a victory Hannibal. But you don't know what to do with. I don't know how to use victory Hannibal, for instance, refused to March on Rome after the Victor Kenai as one of his advisors wanted him to he said his army was too battered to bruise they needed time to recover in the defenses of Roman any case, which we strong. But in later years, he looked back on this. As a mistake that he should have stuck the knife in that he should have marched on Rome. However difficult it was in any might have terrified the Romans into surrender or terrified some of their allies into leaving them the problem for Hannibal as the Romans are bit like Britain in nineteen forty against the Germans after Dunkirk. They say, well, we've lost. It's true. But we don't announce that we've lost. We don't acknowledge it because we believe that's strategically the entre pretty good for us. We've got the British navy this potential of allies, particularly in the United States. We're gonna keep on fighting Romans something somewhat similar. They said, yeah, what we've lost really? Battles. But we still have all our allies in central Italy. We still have our fleet, succumbing get us. And we still have our walls. You can't win and they go on to rebuild Roma's gone to rebuild the allies in central Italy are tied to the Romans very closely the Romans, not only defeated them, but they've used a combination of carrots and sticks to bring those allies into the Roman aligns to make ties with the ruling classes of all these cities in some cases, their blood ties 'cause the ruling classes intermarry with the Roman elite Hannibal not good at breaking these bonds. Hold central Italy into the room alliance to do. So he would have had to lay siege to the cities of central Italy hannibal's, not a siege. Craft Connick guy his seizures in Spain have not gone. Well, been frustrating. He was badly wounded he's a mobile warrior warfare kinda guy. So Hannibal wants to take the war to Sicily to start. Denia he wants to recapture the city's wants to get new allies in the Greek world where he he does have an alliance with the Macedonian king, but not much comes of it in the Romans are able to rebuild they rebuild their army, the defeat the Carthaginians in Sicily in worse for him all along the Romans had been wanting to open a second front in Spain with limited success, but they finally pulled off because the other problem that had will runs into is that in warfare. If you have a brilliant new way of doing things, and you don't defeat the enemy, the enemies any good, the enemy's going to figure out to do this brilliant new ways. Well, case in point the second World War. The Germans have blitzkrieg and their enemies eventually figure out how to do blitzkrieg of their own so hannibal's worst nightmare is a Roman survivor of the battle of Kenai. It's a man name Skippy. Jen. Skip you who comes from one of the first families of Rome in warfare and Skippy. Oh, understands that Hannibal is able to run rings around the Roman army because of the professionalism us troops in the ability of his troops troops to carry out combined arms tactics in which the infantry in the cavalry work, well, together, something wrong or good at Skippy. A rebuilds the room when army to be able to do this sort of thing. Hannibal is also good at tricks ambushes and skip you is will and Hannibal portrays himself as kind of God, or at least someone who is favor of the gods particular of Hercules, who is a God for the Carthaginians as well as for the Greeks and Romans and skip you does something like this is will he leads an army to Spain and through ambush. She captures the Carthaginians capital city of new Carthage modern. Cartagena in southeastern Spain. And then he goes on to defeat the Carthaginians in battle and force the Carthaginians of Spain. So they lose the jewel in the crown of their empire Hannibal still in Italy. But he's not able to get the Romans to admit defeat. He's not able to dislodge the rolling from their their alliance. Essentially Italy, he the attempt to reconquer Sisley fails. The Romans inflict a bloody defeat on the Carthaginians there MacArthur. Ginny and home government, which is never been without its suspicions of Hannibal and suspicions of his family. What they wanna do is not giving him the kind support that he would have -solutely want either. At this point. Skip yo crews that he is truly a master of warfare. Because he's not just a great battlefield general. But he's also a great diplomat as well. And he nail launches is most impressive. Cu it's years in the making. It takes years of could Jolie would have hannibal's aces was his alliance with numidian numidian the quivalent of what is today. Al jazeera. The Numidians are superb horseman they've got one thing that the Carthaginians absolutely need. They've got a light cavalry, the slide cavalry's incredibly fast and mobile. That's absolutely key to hannibal's. Battlefield victories. Would skip you able to do is. He is able to convince the Numidians to defect from Carthage into join Rome. It is not an easy crosses. It's very long. It's very complicated. It's got his own set of. Plots in almost operatic connections involving a numidian Princess who tries to save the day for Carthage, but is forced in the end commit suicide. But with the help of Namibia. Skip ios able to bring the war back to to North Africa to force Hannibal to leave Italy and force him to roll the dice on one final. Great battle in Tunisia about all that because Skippy, oh now has his numidian ally. Because he's pride this way from Carthage. That's keep us able to win and finally force Hannibal the Carthaginians to win defeat. So this is in epic warfare of war that goes back and forth. Scott these two stunning commanders Hannibal and skip you if you will pull in and Wellington of the second Punic war finally ends in victory. So it sounds like for Hannibal. He was a fantastic combat commander. But long-term strategy even the politics diplomacy that was a blind of you know, slight blindspot forum. Yeah, I would maybe not a blind spot. But he didn't have the absolute mastery of it that that. Alexander and Caesar hat. I think that was his difficulty. I mean, there there are those who would say Hannibal problem was that he should never have started the war in the first place. This is a bit of vanity on his part to think that he could have defeated the rumor public. I'm not sure I think that I think there's a lot to be said for his decision. Go to war against Rome Rome, really was threatening cartridges empire in Spain. But I think that after having defeated after having inflicted great defeat on room. I think Hannibal should have gone back to Spain declared victory and built was resources there. Then do but he wanted to continue on. So so Hannibal clear he lost. He got defeated Alexander. He won. But lost in the long run. The same thing happened with Caesar. So this man who who climbed up the ranks of of Roman military conquered his his home country became the first man of room the first Caesar, but it seemed like a victory, but it also didn't last for him either. I mean he getting killed. He ends. He ends up getting killed. He's assassinated, of course, on the odds of March March fifteenth forty four BC and he's assassinated in way because the he wins too much. I mean, he's wants to become the first man in the Roman Republic. But instead he destroys the Roman Republic, and he proclaims himself dictator for life a position which was completely illegal. You couldn't be dictator for life. It's a new constitutional physician untie about, you know, he's famous lover Latin lover if you will and his most famous conquest happens to be a Queen Queen of Egypt Cleopatra by whom he has a son. We she claims its Caesar's son Ptolemy the fifteen the on next king of Egypt to everybody calls 'cause Ari or little Caesar and he himself flirts with. Royal ethic. -tations he wears Royal robes and gets honors such as no room ever had on top of that. He's trying he has the same problem. Similar alexander. He's trying to balance the long Hilty his old supporters with the new ones we brings into his arms like Alexander. He says you can't just crush the Bucar you need to win their loyalty so Caesar famously after winning the Roman civil war instead of executing his former Honus he pardons them he gives them clemency as he calls it. But this isn't work for two reasons. First of all at a fans alienates is old supporters who say, hey, wait a minute. What about us? Why are you being so nice to these new guys? And Secondly, the way he gives them clemency is kind of fence. He makes them big please, great Caesar, please. Forgive me for what I have done. If there was something wrong with defending the country against the would be dictator. So Caesar sets up. See of enemies like gainst him, and they decide to plot against him Caesars not doing well in the city of Rome. He doesn't really like Roman politics. He's more successful in the battlefield. And so he plans to leave Rome yet again after the civil war and start a new war. This time against the enemy in the east the Parthenon empire. A revived Iranian empire that controls your on Iraq is extending into the Roman province of Syria. They've clashed in the past Arkan's of one says he wants to go back to the east Vange former feats, but before he can leave room. He is of course, assassinated on the odds of March. Two ads. The mic Caesar was not a healthy, man. He was suffering either from epilepsy or perhaps a series of mini strokes. It's not entirely clear that might have weakened him on the odds of margin. Probably did not bode will for his long term longevity men in his mid fifties. But he thought he was going to be able to pull off this military campaign in at least win some victories. Who knows what would have happened in the end? But his opponents were convinced that he was a threat both is old supporters and to the his former enemies who defended the Roman public. So they joined together in a conspiracy N managed to take him out in the Senate on the of March for four BC. What happened to Rome after that? After that Caesar headed by for talent. He already begun the process of concentrating power in the Republic that used to belong to the nobility concentrating power in his own hands, and that of his family, he didn't have any legitimate children of his own United daughter, but she died, but he had some nephews in cousins began to share power with them. The most promising was eighteen year old grand nephew, the son of his sister's daughter, this is a guiding guy. Octavius guys Octavius had been brought the Caesar's attention by his mother's grandmother and Cesar had given hit a lot of attention. While the kid was growing up. He was fatherless father died when he was young and Caesar has sent young guys TVs to the east to be part of this new. Campaign. But when Caesar dies in his will, it turns out that Caesar has adopted him posthumously, which is not something he did in Rome, by the way as air and left most of his enormous fortune. This young man was incredibly clever talented. He comes back to Rome, and he starts a campaign to capture all the owners power that Caesar had. It is a long struggle that lasts almost generation and leads to a new civil war to make a long story short this young guys Octavius who becomes another Julius Caesar. Ultimately, defeats everyone becomes Rome's first emperor. We know him as a Gustis so Caesar does leave a dynasty behind him. Not in the way that he had planned, and it's a very if he thing, but in the end, he leaves behind him another civil war just as Alexander hat lease behind him in the civil war. But in the case of Caesar one man manages to win the whole thing. It the Roman emperor might have split up into a series of smaller realms, just as Alex Sanders that empire did. But young guys TVs future Augusta. So successful so competent and so fortunate that he he wins the whole thing enroll the Roman Republic becomes what we call the Roman empire, the Roman monarchy, in fact, one of the big takeaways. I got from this book was that all three of these men. Crazy ambition crazy, audacity of brilliant. But that idea that they does that none of new windows stop. I'm curious. Do you think it's possible to be a part of the tribe of the eagle every hem Lincoln said and no one to stop like had that balance has has there ever been a military leader or a common military? Do you have to have like a like two people sort of balance each other off? So great. Question. It's really hard to do in most people. Most of us are good at one thing. And we're not immense aversive. That's why it's really important, by the way to have a second in command. And one of the reasons that Augusta's wins is that he's not a great warrior, and he has a second in command who's a great warrior. He doesn't want to knock him off a grip, Marcus grip. So when he got that situation, then you can have someone who knows how to stop Gusta snows have to stop George Washington is somebody who knew how to stop. He didn't become king after winning the American revolution. In fact, he goes home and retires there, you it takes a really remarkable personality who has kind of modesty and humility the loss to stop another person. Who knows how to stop William the conqueror after conquering England he doesn't say, hey, this is just the beginning. Let's keep on going in knows when to stop you figures. Hey, this is a great thing. To win on it. Spend the rest of my life trying to absorb it. So if possible, but it's really rare really difficult to do. And what I love about this book while it's about military history. You can see this this can transfer over the same ideas like business, see businesses that are just so hellbent on growing and growing and growing read in the end it bites in the rear, and they collapsed like immediately and fast. And also in business, you often see someone whose genius figures out how to start a new business, but rarely is that person also going to be the manager administrator who can bring to the second generation. So it's really common you have founder great by ya. Now, we have somebody who is going to codify the whole thing and do the heart. You know, the slog of making it work. These guys didn't like doing the slog work. They really didn't. I think that's something. I have in common. So you got a new book out? I'm curious houses continuous. Of this book masters commander is it a continuation or something different anyway shin. Thank you. So the new book is called ten Caesar's Roman empress from Augusta to Constantine. So it takes the story through Caesar's successor Augusta's. And how does he win the whole thing? What's his ambition? What's his had is he what makes him so successful? And then how does he pull it off Caesar? Can't get the Romans to accept him as dictator for life. How does Augusta's hold off and having done? So what kind of? Government kind of regime does he leave an how do our the Romans able to continue it, particularly because they continue with the fiction still the Roman Republic. We call it the Roman empire. But they never did. They and we said the have emperors, but they never said that at all they all know. It's just the Republic. Nothing has changed. Who are you gonna believe me or your lying on is pay? No attention to the man behind the curtain. Nothing has changed a Hannity pull it off. And in fact, not only is it not true. That nothing is changed. But the Romans have this problem. The world doesn't stand still the world keeps changing enormously in big ways in a ways the Romans in a way, the Romans of the victims of their own success because they have a successful empire. The empire starts changing. How you going to adapt? When that happens. How do you make change your friend, which you need to do if you wanna stay in power? Nobody stays in power by saying, I'm not changing anything. I'm keep everything saying 'cause you can't things the same. So I'm really fascinated by this question how the Romans had this balance in change in continuity in and they do and they managed to keep the empire for very very long time. And I think it's partly because of this flexibility in sounds like there's a lot of lessons there that can transfer over to others life as well. Indeed, overworking people go to learn more about your work people. Can learn more about my work in two places? First of all her website, Barry, Strauss dot com. But also have a podcast, which I started in in the fall really excited about is called in toss leaders and. Legends of the ancient world, and you can find it on all the major podcast platforms on tunes, for instance, or Google play or Stitcher as well as on my website. And the first season is called the gods of war. And it takes you from achilles to Julius Caesar masecond season, which just recently launched is called the death of Caesar. You can read about then you can hear about that as well. On the podcast. I encourage you to listen to it. And if you like it, please rated on items will bear this has been a great conversation. Thanks for your time. It's been athlete. Pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's really been. Great pleasure for me as well. Mike berry Strauss. He's the author of the book masters of command, we discussed that book today's available on Amazon dot com. Also, check out his new book. Ten Caesar's also able animals on dot com and bookstores everywhere find out more information about his work at his website, Barry, Strauss dot com. And while you're there, check out his podcast antique with us leaders in legends of the ancient world Kelso. Check out. Our show knows at AM dot IS slash masters of command vine links to read. Sources ring delve deeper into this topic. Well, that wraps up another edition of the podcast, check her website art, Manley's dot com. Where you find our podcast archive at over four hundred eighty podcast up evergreen, they're still good. Even if you're like five years ago, they're still quality. Also, you can find thousands of articles written over the years about personal finances. Physical fitness out to be a better husband. But her father check it out art of manliness dot com. And if you haven't done so already I'd appreciate take one minute to review on itunes or Stitcher. It helps out a lot. And if you've done that already. Thank you, please consider sharing the show with a friend or family member. Who think we get something out of it? As always thank you for your continues port until next time. This is Brad MacKay rining as always thank you for your continued support until next time this bread mccarey mining do not only listen to the podcast, but put what you've heard into action.
The Empire That Never Existed
"You may have heard of many of the largest empires in world history the Romans the Mongols the British. The Persians the anchors in the Byzantine 's. That last empire, however, the Byzantine 's never actually existed. How can work? The world's greatest empires never have existed. Learn more and this episode of everything everywhere daily. This episode of everything everywhere daily is brought to you by G. Adventures G adventures is the world's premier small group tour operator offering tours in over one hundred countries, and on all seven continents in addition g adventures has been a leader in the area of responsible tourism, helping to establish social enterprises around the world. When you travel with G, you not only get to explore the. The world you also get to help the people in the communities you visit I speak from firsthand experience I've personally visited over forty countries on all seven continents with g adventures, and I can attest to their high standards and the quality of their tours to learn more about g adventures and defined a tour. That's right for you. Click on the link in the show notes. Byzantine Empire had as its capital the city of Constantinople. What is now modern day? Istanbul history books will tell you that. The empire lasted over a thousand years. Under the Emperor Justinian in the year five, fifty five, the empire reached its greatest extent with territory around the Mediterranean. Egypt north, Africa the Balkans and the Levant. Over its millennium of existence they have ninety four different emperors, and it was the center of Orthodox Christianity. Time, the empire shrank by the time of its final defeat. The fall of Constantinople in fourteen fifty three to the Ottoman Turks, the empire had dwindled to what is today parts of eastern Turkey Greece and some of the Balkans. With all of that history, how was it possible to say that the Byzantine Empire didn't exist? And it's actually pretty easy. At no point in their one thousand some year history. Did they or anyone else ever call themselves Byzantine 's or referred to their empire as Byzantium. They consider themselves Roman. The Byzantine Empire was really nothing more than the continuation of the eastern Roman Empire. After the empire in the West fell in every real sense of the word, the Byzantine Empire was the Roman Empire. You can draw a direct line from the Byzantine emperors to the Emperor Augustus Julius. Caesar and the Roman Republic. To. How did this come about? Why don't we just call it? The Roman? Empire! Understand how the Roman Empire kept going until the renaissance. We need to go back to the Roman Emperor Diocletian. By the time Diocletian became emperor in the late third century, the Roman, empire had become very large and very difficult to centrally administer sending orders and getting updates from distant corners of the empire could take months in the year two, ninety, three Diocletian devised a new system for the Roman Empire, whereby would be split into two parts east, and West each part of the empire would be led by a senior emperor, called the Augustus and a junior emperor with the title of Caesar, the system was known as the tetrarchy. Diocletian was established as the Augustus in the east, and his top General Maximilian was the Augusta's in the West. This system lasted for about only twenty years as rivals and claimants flawed each other for power after the death of Diocletian. In the year three twelve, the two parts of the empire were unified once again under the rule of Ember Constantine the first as we know him as Constantine, the great who established a new capital city for the empire. A city called Nova. Or Rome and eventually became known as Constantinople the city that bears his name. After the death of Constantine, the great, the empire split once again into two parts, and this is the first possible starting point for the Byzantine Empire. Constantine is sometimes considered the first Byzantine Empire because he founded the city of Constantinople and legalize Christianity in his empire, but he was in every sense of the word, a true Roman emperor. After Constantine, there were attempts to reunify the to have the empire. The Emperor Theodosius was successful in reconquering the Italian peninsula, and was the last person who could lay claim to being the emperor of a united Roman Empire upon his death in three hundred five, he split the empire between a sons, Arcadia in the east and Honiara, in the West and after that the empire was never unified again. The year three ninety five in the final split of East and West is also sometimes used as a starting date for the Byzantine Empire. In the year four, seventy six, the last emperor of the West Romulus Augustus was killed and replaced by a King of Italy barbarian by the name of Flavius Auto Aker. In four seventy six, the date is usually given by most history books as the fall of the Roman Empire in reality. It was anything, but if they had newspapers back, then there never would have been a headline saying Roman Empire falls to the average person living in Italy. It was just one ruler. Replacing another had been going on for centuries. And with a name like Flavius. Accurate was very romanized even though he was considered a barbarian while he stylized himself a quote unquote king. He considered himself subservient to the Roman emperor back in Constantinople. He sent the roam the robes. Augustus Zeno and Zeno even had coins minted showing Aker ruling Italy under the name of Zeno. I mentioned this. Because even after the Roman Empire, supposedly ended the people that took over still considered the empire as an ongoing concern. For seventy, six is also sometimes used as a starting date for the Byzantine Empire. As well as it coincides with the end of the empire in the West the reason why it's so hard to pin down a starting date for the Byzantine Empire is that there was never any single event you could point to to say that it was a starting point. It could be considered the founding of Constantinople it could be considered the death of Theodosius, or it could be considered the fall of the western empire. Either way. It was just the Roman. Empire chugging along like it always had just a bit different. Well. We can't put a date on when it started. We can certainly put a date on when it ended and that happened on, may twenty, ninth fourteen, fifty, three, when the theo she walls of Constantinople were breached for the first and only time and the last. Emperor Constantine the eleventh was killed, and the city was conquered by the Ottoman Sultan mended the second. So. This empire was really just the Roman Empire. Why do we call it the Byzantine Empire? It's basically something which was devised by western historians to distinguish the Greek speaking Christian empire centered in Constantinople from the earlier Latin speaking pagan. Empire centered in Rome, the first use of the term Byzantine was by the German historian Hironoma Wolf who, in fifteen, fifty, seven one hundred years after the fall of Constantinople published a work called Corpus Hysteria Byzantine. In the Islamic and Slavic world, there was never really a distinction. The Islamic world referred to it as He Room or the Roman nation and the term was used to describe all Orthodox. Christians in Muslim lands well into the twentieth century, the name Byzantine comes from the word Byzantium which was the name of the small town that existed in the location Constantinople was built. So strong was the Roman identity among the people. We call Byzantine byzantines that it wasn't until the eighteenth and nineteenth century. When people in today. What is Greece, stop calling themselves Roman and started referring themselves again as Greek in fact as late as the early twentieth century, some researchers found people what are today Greek islands who still call themselves Roman? This Roman heritage exists to this very day in the name of the country, which uses the exact same name that the Byzantine use to describe their own empire. Romania This is a brand new podcast, and as such can really use your support. If you know someone who is curious and you think would like the show. Please share it with them, and if you've enjoyed the show, please subscribe on Apple podcast Google podcast real get new content for curious people every day and your podcast player and leave a five star review more of us can help the show discovered by more people, and also please support the show on patriotic where you will get exclusive audio content, not available on the podcast feed merchandise such as t shirts, and you'll be able to submit ideas for future episodes until next time. Stay curious.
March 15, 2020: Julius Caesar Assassinated
"Today is Sunday march fifteenth. Twenty twenty on this day in forty four BC e Roman general and dictator. Julius Caesar was assassinated by a cabal of evil senators. Welcome to today and true crime podcast. Original due to the graphic nature of today's crimes listener discretion is advised extreme. Caution is advised for listeners under thirteen. Today we're covering the death of fifty five year old. Julius Caesar let's go back to ancient Rome in the early hours of the morning of March Fifteenth Forty Four B. C. E. The morning started slowly for Caesar. The march was an important religious holiday for the Romans. As well as the day to settle debts he had plenty to do yet. Couldn't even seem to get started instead. He had to endure. A deluge of ominous warnings and paranoid whispers. His doctors worried. He would soon have a dizzy spell and collapse. His friends claimed there was a conspiracy against him. Even his wife help. Hernia harangued him to stay at home claiming she'd had frightening dreams of his violent demise. Luckily he was saved by his friend. And Confidante Decima Brutus. Brutus wave away. Help complaints and the rumors of revolt as idle gossip. The Senators had invited Caesar to the theatre hoping to honor him with a gladiatorial if he turned them down over a strange dream. They'd be insulted. Brutus and Caesar then made the long walk Caesar's home to the theater of pompey constructed by his ally turned nemesis. Hoppy the great though Caesar had mixed feelings about the general he admired pompiers legacy. The theater was the first of its kind and featured a breathtaking manicured garden complete with hand. Sculpted water pieces. But Caesar didn't get much chance to admire the scenery that day instead brutus ushered him into the Curia. A small room near the entrance to the theater inside. Dozens of senators were waiting. He'd hardly sat down. When one lucious Tilles CIMBER approached him lucious begged Caesar to allow his exiled brother who blessed to come home to Rome. Caesar refused to consider the matter but lucious would not be easily dismissed. He pleaded with Caesar to let Pugliese. Return even clawing at Caesar's Toga and grasping his shoulders. As Lucius spoke the other senators started to crowd Caesar lending their support to lucious and babbling about their own pet projects. Finally a stunned and annoyed. Caesar cast lucious away proclaiming. Why this is violence. The moment was exactly what another Senator Casca was waiting for with. Caesar's is on Lucius. Casca drew a dagger from his Toga and rusted. At Caesar's neck landed only a shallow cut and in an instant. Caesar spun around and grabbed. Casco's arm ever the Kool military man. Caesar remained calm and held casca firmly at his mercy but CASCA had only been the first strike and it was impossible for Caesar to stop all his enemies as he started to question. Casca he felt a white hot pain explode across his back then. Another then another. He was stabbed twenty three times as he lay covered in blood. There's some dispute about his last words. Several sources claim. He didn't say anything one claims. He covered his face with his Togo when he saw his friend. Brutus had joined in the assassination another state. Caesar addressed Brutus you to child. It was this version adapted by Shakespeare. To et Tu Brute then Fall Caesar which has reigned supreme in the public consciousness since then but the fall of Caesar was only the first step in the conspirators quest to seize power a quest which would eventually lead to the total collapse of the Roman republic coming up. We discuss the aftermath of Julius Caesar's assassination and the imminent civil war high listeners. I'm excited to announce that CRIME JUNKIES FLOWERS. A new podcast original series. I think you'll really enjoy. It's called supernatural with Ashley. Flowers and you can find brand new episodes every Wednesday. We all know that most mysteries can be solved by looking at the facts but sometimes the facts don't lead to a logical explanation and the truth lies somewhere in the unknown in supernatural with Ashley. Flowers Ashley takes a deep dive into the strange and surreal to explain some of the world's most bizarre true crime occurrences each week. She'll dig into a different crime or mystery where the most fitting theory isn't always the most conventional from exorcisms to unsolved murders to alien abductions. Ashley will take on. The tails challenged the unexplained and dissect the facts with a heavy helping of skepticism and rationale. So are you ready to get to the bottom of history's most peculiar events? Follow supernatural with Ashley. Flowers free on spotify. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Now back to the story on March Fifteenth Forty four BC. Roman leader. Julius Caesar was stabbed in the back by his political enemies immediately following his death the conspirators ran throughout Rome proclaiming that the dictator was dead and that the city was free. The reaction was not exactly what they expected. Though Caesar had been a dictator he was immensely popular among the lower classes of the city. He also had support from a vast portion of his veteran forces. The all rallied behind mark. Antony an ally of Caesar who had tried to stop the assassination. Antony said about consolidating his position as the remaining conspirators slipped out of Rome and built armies of their own but Antony's progress was slowed when he learned Cesar had left the bulk of his fortune to his eighteen year. Old Grand Nephew and adopted son Octavius after struggling amongst themselves octavius. Antony eventually formed an alliance together. They set out to face the armies of the so called liberators who supported the assassination of Caesar. The liberators were led by. Brutus and Cassius two of the men who had killed Caesar in forty two BC. Antony and Octavius set sail and attacked the army of the liberators near the Grecian city of Philip Pie. Both armies were of similar size. But Antony and octavius forces were better rested into battles the Roman forces vanquished the liberators. Thousands of soldiers were killed and both Cassius and brutus died by suicide to prevent their capture with that. The civil war ended but the struggle for power continued as the Roman empire was divided between octavius. Mark Antony and Lapidus who had been Caesar's master of Horse in the ensuing years octavius strengthened his position in the western regions of the empire. While Antony did the same in the east intermittent conflict erupted between the two over the years but things did not truly come to a head again until thirty three. Bc that year civil war looked imminent once more. Antony allied with Cleopatra in Egypt. Named Caesar and Cleopatra's son the true heir of Caesar Octavius couldn't stand to have his status as Caesar's heir threatened in thirty two B. C. E. He rallied the Senate to his side and declared war against Cleopatra and Antony the resulting conflict ended in Antony's final defeat in thirty BC. He died in Cleopatra's arms with almost all of octavius. As enemies gone he was left to acquire supreme power for himself. He eventually took on the name. Caesar Augustus and ushered in an era known as the principal. The principal mark the beginning of a time where Rome was ruled by a single emperor formally ending the Roman Republic. Though Augusta says later rule would usher in the POX Romana A- period of peace his efforts to concentrate political power likely contributed to the eventual fall of the empire heralded as a power mad dictator by his assassins. Julius Caesar would have likely founded amusing that these same assassins ensured the death of the Republic in life and in death. Caesar played a pivotal role in the trajectory of the empire and his murder became the quintessential symbol of betrayal at the hands of one's friends a backstabbing a symbol. That will continue to persist for Millennia. Thanks for listening today in true crime. I'm Vanessa Richardson. If you'd like to learn more about. Julius Caesar and his deadly betrayal listen to my episode about him on the podcast original famous fates today in true crime was created by Max Cotler and is a podcast studios original it is executive produced by Max Cutler sound designed by Anthony Val sick with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Aaron Larson. This episode of today in true crime was written by terrel wells with writing assistance by Maggie Admire. I'm Vanessa Richardson High Listeners. If you haven't heard it already. I highly recommend you check out the new podcast original series supernatural with Ashley Flowers every Wednesday. Take a deep dive into the strange and surreal to find the truth behind some of the world's most bizarre true crime occurrences search for supernatural with Ashley Flowers in the spotify APP and listened free today.
Episode 4 : Federalism for the Future and Our Minds and the Media
"Man time is talking about. Amassed week tonight. And a gentleman was. Talking about why he called gypsy cops. These officers who. Get into trouble. Maybe a little bit too quick to shoot. Get a few too many reprimands for being a goon it just pack up Goto nother state and other job as a peace officer. Now that had me thinking immediately towards something. I've been looking forward to talking about, and it's called Federal's. Federalism is government that combines a general government with a regional government division of powers of equal stacks. Now, this is the opposite of a confederacy in a sense that, while federalism, the federal and state governments are equal yet one will be found supreme, depending on the issue at hand and a confederation. The state government is supreme AMI teens rights to succeed or leave the coalition. Hence the confederacy in the civil war, they were fighting for that. Exact right. The federalist party was the first political party in the US led by the likes of Alexander Hamilton in Don atoms, federalism is responsible point. They express powers found in the constitution, which state that general government answer, right to Levy taxes, regulate interstate and foreign trade on to declare war now over time the power, the government has increased here in airport industry or economic reasons. In the beginning, the federalist party bump heads with the Jefferson led democrat Republicans. Now, of course, we have the democrat party, and Republican party. But seeing democratic Republicans together actually gives me another vision age increase in ancient Rome Roman Republic. It sounds good. And all but it's basically a bunch of only ox have they've say in get together. The lower classes, have very little say and the Democratic Republic, just says we vote for the old yards who are going to make all decisions. And if you look at you as politics that's for the most part one it is. And we got to pretty wealthy people running right now but we're not talking about Democrats or Republicans, right talkin, about Federal's. I expects the opponent apparel ISM would be confederacy. They're afraid of having too big of a government that frayed of tyranny and you. Here, the people who want small government now, claiming the same thing corruption at the federal level, telling you, you going to do with your life, the Haza thing you can take the federal government out, someone is going to call shots. Doesn't matter what it is. You know, if it's not the federal government dance going to be the state government, if it's not distinct government ends probably going to be the wealthiest people if it's not the wealthiest people, it's probably going to be the people, the best proximity, if it's not them it's going to be the people with the pointed sticks. Hey sale. Quickly gets rather barbaric. I think many of these state, right? Politicians nowadays, just wanna be able to whatever they want without anyone looking over their shoulder. I don't think they are looking out for the welfare or freedoms of their people, and his another thing if you have a corrupt tyrant at the state level, MO the people on their own. No one else is going to be paying attention. But if it's a federal thing, federal government calling the shots, if one state Representative is growing around. It's going to get the attention of every citizen in the country. Those with this confederacy mindset in states. Right mind sense. It's like they're jerk at the party who wants to leave because we decided not to play the game that they wanna play or the person who sits at the bar participates while everyone else is buying around. But when their turn to buy around they wanna head out the door, you know, you can't be a part of something for military defense in economics banking system. They wanna cut out anytime you want after you benefited from those things. Like, why would you wanna be involved with anyone like that type of person you wanna be on your team who wants the right to run? I think there's more reason nowadays is more rationale, be behind a free NUP than there is to have the right to succeed but enough about that. Let's talk about federalism, because, as people wanted to believe that we need less government, I believe we actually need more. Let's government hasn't helped us much at all. Because again, if essential government isn't calling Cole shots. Someone is in even if it state, they're not gonna care about the rest of the people in this country. Maybe polluting river that runs downstream tell the states they don't give a shit if it's not a state government. It's some businessmen, and they don't give a crap about the people. They bite by doubt. It they don't have to show. He by best off with the strongest entity that is run by elected officials. Inspected the in Dyson seeing who's in charge after the dust settles. Let me be specif-. In where we need. More government, a newer federalistic a new federalism, l mean the new federal ISM in eighties wear is actually like the opposite to do those things like no child left behind Simpson's United. They come up with these fund names actually mean the opposite of what the legislation does. And the newer new federal, ISM is actually taking power away from the government. How I see that new better? Eliza is a acceptance that a world power needs a large government, a large bureaucracy. I think when people hear large government base not gained visions of a totalitarian, regime, why heavy-handed communist regime, but it really comes down to who is calling the shots up top. You can have a small country launch country, you can have lack of regulation. Hi, big Yele Shen. You still have maybe an equal chance of having a tyrant. I argue you have a less chance of having a bull fledged hiring in a larger government now lodge empires, like role, Mike Reese, China gay they at their height, the central government was best. Sometimes you had regimes wears allow corruption, and then sometimes muck of the draw you had these leaders that win around cracking heads, and ending corruption and running a tight ship, you might tell me that, while the whole country was built on slavery. That is true. But let's think we as a species outgrew or about past Lavery technology, outgrew slavery is just simply cheaper force to use machines now and allow the things that had slaves for then are now done by machines us, so let's take slavery out. Issue. 'cause instead of slaves, we have everything out, coffeemaker to dishwasher technology, has taken the place of slaves so Enosis Cise, you had security, you had a place where they developed culture. And yes, you do have places in Greece that developed even more culture. And now a very civilized NA, made all kinds of manual and contributions to math than philosophy. But then they get their answers kicked by Rome because Rome strong centralized government that was able to react faster, physically and strategically because Greece was too caught up a net individualism. Those individual cities worked for them to certain extent made sense in some ways, but not when you run up against the machine like the Romans built through a large bureaucracy, and we are large nation and our just certain things basically, anything that keeps the country ally. Live and keeps the people in the country, taking is a matter for the central government, you wouldn't have gypsy tops if all the departments were into connected, right, if someone shoot somebody on a job without 'cause he shouldn't work anyway, he shouldn't have the ability to work anywhere. We have schools, some children learning one version of US history and someplace else learning another version, you can't have that is not good for unity and all the different types of testing, you should be able to teach practice law. Do real estate amongst other things without jumping through all these who's disaster response instead of a hurricane hitting a tornado than estate look into the government and seeing what they're gonna get. And then depending on politicians dogma, how much money he wants to accept because president might be. The of another from another party, you know, there should be no politics involved. It should be just straight up. Reaction disaster comes at federal government is in charge of that in Qom area, activate do what they gotta do and you have gun laws. That's one of those things that is responsible for keeping people alive in the country, civilized, and have it state by state doesn't make any sense, because gun laws oneal strong as they are in the weakest state, forty eight states can have very, nice very solid commonsense gun legislation. Have the other two don't then it doesn't matter guns are going to get everywhere. Anyway, I wanna talk about healthcare, Healthcare's, one of the ones I feel that's very important to become a federal issue. Forget about state health care. Let's talk about federal. Healthcare, because in the next ten years, I see a lot of interesting things coming down, the pike we have things like three d printable bone implants, flexible bone in place. We have new antibiotics that we're finding on own bodies new viruses helpful ones finding with Eno buys. We have the DNA editing crisper now. No. Have you heard of that as a Luma sheen can actually fix you DNA? We have iron nanoparticles have just recently been discovered in rats to we activate as cells ability to attack a cancer. You have other things coming out in some things when discovering more more like acupuncture and just going to the chiropractor different foods, you can eat as allow things we can do that. Do come rather cheaply, but I'll healthcare is left in the hands of the private sector coming out. The way we got to make sure private industry, doesn't a try to block them discredit him or B find ways to Mark up the price. How I see it is, again, it's very important fast. When it constitution was written. It didn't have the technology nowhere near you. Hide your family doctor now, the had have taken character on Horace to several miles to see you, or you had to see him. They wouldn't be able to dream of this situation. I'm sure they did this would be a type of thing that would be on the federal control. You can have the private entities, you can have your private health care HMO's and whatnot. And they give you the Mercedes package. I think can cover all kinds of stuff, but for the most part is alive things that it's not profitable on these companies, get involved in and some of these things they rather deal in remedies Dame church. Now, if you have a single pair. You, you have a government option healthcare. Let it compete. So capitalism to me is not win the industry, conspires against the people they're supposed to be competing. They aren't really the all have a price in mind. Now, if the government is providing healthcare in making deals that allow medical suppliers, make our salad living, but federal government basically, regulates the price, because they are not profit driven. They give a rational one ethical price on things, and then that allows the rest of the market to compete ethic instead of spending subsidies on these arms hookah companies or these insurance companies, the government has its own, and it doesn't go to anyone profit, all the money stays in the system for the benefit of people. And then we know have good subsidies point private entities research, we can research own things the government can take. Of wearing about outbreaks worrying about the cheap medicines dourness Cecil and let the private industry, worry about the design of stuff because they cannot be trusted. Some might look at the handout, I don't think it's a down. It gets taken out of their paychecks. So might say survival, the pissed now why should just keep having kids. And they're going to go in government shines, yada, yada. I wouldn't be worried about so much people abusing the system which are now but I would instead encourage contraception. Okay. So basically what I'm trying to say federalism, is something that we should strongly, consider, maybe it's a political party that needs to resurface. I think it's important when it comes to healthcare, besides healthcare, we have infrastructure issues. We have seems to be like endless natural disasters. We have security issues. It's definitely time to kinda step back reevaluate and not have his Goshen about let's not be fighting off. Those who did this. Mantle of government, instate a status quo. We actually have to increase government. Okay. So I'm going on that tangent back to number last week tonight at got me thinking about something else, how old school journalism is debt to born like a lecture. If you can remember that far back and it's not flashy doesn't make us laugh, doesn't make us angry just playing all news, it became out of fashion. It seems like the communication sounds revolution has created in tire populace with ADD everything comes at us. So quick fast that to actually pay attention focus on what they're telling us our ability to absorb information mirrors how we eat. Jerry, we could eat normally buy in general, as a nation, we eat terrible. We could read research backed information. We have as much time for that, as we have to cook a proper and balanced meal. So we get what is fast? In one is easy. That's the type of news that we need. But how do we go about our showings? You have Fox News, CNBC, AM radio, the talking has, like rush. And then you had the books written by all those people who going go on Lehman say, don't really do the research, then you have things like the daily show last week tonight. The Kobe report south park. Family guy Simpsons and it's all sarcasm and satire to we be so easily separated between those who respond to fear anger sex, and those who respond to humor. I don't win sex because you do see like on box. You can see they intentionally try to cast attractive women, and you have a lot of hard cone right-wingers, who had a crush on sale of Pailin minded mo- that homecoming Queen never got Megan Kelly. You know, and then you, you watch the show and then New York Post they have their gratuitous pitchers of women. Don't pay attention to parties. Let's not talk about their political leaning matches talk about some people are getting their news while they're being made be scared or angry in others are getting news. While the laughing oars that humor away to expel. At possibility as won't instead of gain angry just laugh at things straight you. I would love to have this dialogue in the future. But right now, I don't have a live audience, though. It can be too soon extent. So feel free to Email. Oh, message me or whatever. Boom of communication, I have opened at the time of you listening to this, and I will get to it on future apsos by regards to how we obtain our quote unquote news. I know some will say that they're those reacting to the base instincts in those mortar that need to laugh and make themselves feel better, when having to witness that human tragedy. That is the other group. And then one side might think the other ones are blind to basic common sense, logic that head all twisted up in special interest, and conspiracies in how they find that humor in such issues is a tragedy in its own. Maybe. Personality is track to something that you brain. It's used to getting that type of stimulus nor maybe one part of your brain is just hardwired to react to certain Wayne, the only way you feel comfortable, getting this information is from an angry rant. A snide and sarcastic commentary who knows really what makes one of these things more palatable than the other. Why can tell you is the reason why we choose either forms of what unquote news information is that the regular Fennell news fails do its job as well. They come on thirty second segments telling you, you might have poison in your refrigerator. Tune in at six there's a category twelve hurricane heading somewhere in your direction. Tune in if you wanna live the highway could being Gulf, inflames, your relatives could being danger, but I this message from our sponsors, and we're going to be held captive. We're going to have to sit through these commercials when going. Ban detained we're gonna want somebody pretty to look at what gonna want someone to mess with our motions or make us laugh. Hopefully this gets you thinking thinking so much is that you want to let me know. Email. Next time, I'll be talking about the election after and I also have a message for the millennials again. Thank you for listening.
The Death of Wang Mang, Augustus, and the Roman Republic | 11AD 20AD
"Have you ever wondered if China had station for Mao boyfriend combat to be in a republic well story for you this is the Ad History podcast weaving a tapestry of world history from one eighty two h day powered by t g get your good news that's real news at Tgi aw five visiting TJ and review dot com now here all your hosts Pool K. Di Costanzo and Patrick Foot brought to you by a London and New York City you are listening to the AD history podcast. I am pauquet. Di Costanzo and I am joined by my co host Patrick Foot. Who Have you been doing you know Patrick. It's the middle of August and it has been blistering here in the northeast but not today today is in the low seventies. It's beautiful fill out and you and I are inside recording yeah well. I'm on the opposite end of that spectrum. It's awful outside. We've had a really really rubbish weather. Eh Radio Obvious Weber in August this year. It's really sad because last summer was beautiful here in England and I spent the majority of a cost the my arm so I can really fully enjoy it so get and the weather is awful. Now is unhappy to be inside well that it makes one of us but in any case very few things that I enjoy more than recording eighty history and specifically what we have in line for today yeah because there's Patrick you are going to go into a place with long that I think has a very strong possibility to blow a lot of people's minds. It certainly did for us yet. This absolutely blew my mind and what's lucky about this. Is it so more or less perfectly fits of the structure of our podcast so one one to ten eighty one survey rungs rise to power whereas eleven to twenty eighty it more or less end. I mean actually ends in twenty eight but we'll go over just a little bit for this one because it wouldn't make sense ended twenty a d. It makes most end at twenty three so yes so if you haven't listened to the first episode I personally would really recommend gay Mac listening to it my intention. This podcast is for it to be like one continues being listened from the beginning fifties dipping from now. I'm going to fill you guys in briefly on what we talked about in the last episode. Where would I talked about anyway. Lake Patrick Right before we begin. I think this is the right time to finally introduced the highly anticipated and entirely necessary. Ad History History podcast ground rules take it away one evaluate events in the context. They occurred to over the span of recorded history. The way has been researched. It's methodology and the facts. Alton change immensely how we view in research history today is not necessarily how it was treated fifty years ago free. Nothing in history was inevitable. Tabu and for and perhaps most importantly history in the past is like a different country man's. That's a classic. I really just never gets old tawny way on with the show so in the loss of sit we talked about one monks raise voice the power how he became the emperor of China into ending the Hunt Dynasty and starting his own dynasty too. That's why we were then now today. We're going to be looking at what he did. As his time as emperor discontinuing broken into two sections here the stuff he did his impera and how his empire ended so we begin with if the stuff he did as emperor and that could be broken into two key categories his land reforms and his money reforms so what he he did for land is really interesting and I was stacked reading this and Paul. He told me to you amazed when I should you my show notes. It really blew my mind so so it was the last thing I ever expected to say same same so what he did. We've land in China. He Nationalizes Empires lands and you may be familiar with nationalization. You may not be that's fine if you're not nationalization is the is the government owning things in its most basic way is nationalized it means it's a belongs to you and it's taken care of by the government so things like a travel commu nationalized things like a gas electricity can be nationalized stuff like that one nationalizes analyzes empires land and he did was he distributed equally to all his subjects so and this how did this was by confiscating estates all of this if you own more than one hundred acres and distribution actually farmed it dyslexia about each family owning about five acres of land each every every family in China on five acres which I wouldn't say neutron sainthood five acres of land and how they pay tax on this wasn't a free the money on the Ho- what I read they pay tax on this by giving ten percent of older green food to the government and there's actually a really good quote I are found said by one moung about his views on land and he said the strong possess land by two thousand while the we have nowhere to police a needle which is if really read good quite and also he cut land taxes from fifty percent just down to ten percent now who'd when I read this this to you what would came to mind the one word that only could come to mind which is what might best be called. Proto does socialism yes yes. That's why we were so blown away by. We'll talk about this more in a bit but we have yet because Puffy Proto socialism realism even like somewhat communist and that's just bonkers to me so far back in time we had this happening in China of all countries. A country with a rich history of socialism and communism blacks a bit further down the line. I should say we have quite a few centuries ago. Just just a few centuries but like I said it wasn't only land reforms. He took part in he also reformed China's money Kwa along the way see this was replaced. China's gold coins with bronze coin of just nominal value. Now money is a weighty wait a thing. We let a five pound note or five dollar bill for yourself poor. That's actually worth five pounds old five dollars now. There's no it's a floating currency. We don't back it up with a gold or silver anymore. That's it's an old thing yeah. It used to be obviously but now is an Indus time China's county was based on actual gold so one monchy bronze coins and it's for he did this the kind of even the playing field for the rich and the poll with dishes nominal value discipline all the gold these wealthy people had would mean inasmuch because at us these bronze coins of value and it helped the poor who in debt because it meant they could get this money more easily so that you tweeted even the playing fields of all of this but it wasn't that good what was okay but something else he did which doesn't seem socialist at first and make them sound somewhat like a fire breathing drachen he holds all of China's goat like I said like Schmuck or something and still in his personal treasury and this had huge ramifications Haitians for not only China but the wider whoa baby read that this had an effect would wayne Rome with Augustus who we will be talking about a little bit later on mm-hmm will be handled by him. Just like we've mentioned in episode one one of the big one of the big benefits of Roman control over first century Palestine of course was controlling the eastern Mediterranean and having that route into Egypt eventually which is going to become the bread bags baskets of the empire but because of the immense it's either links out to the Far East and people don't realize just how interconnected this world was people think you're just pushing wheelbarrows and walking long distances instances. Yes that is true but there this is in many sense of very very early adaptation of global economy. It really is not something I I was quite shocked by when I researched this ifo at this moment in time. All of us are stories be connected it staggering that over two found years ago people in Italy had connections with people in China that that's crazy. It is very hard to envisage based on how we look at ancient history but it's there and it was incredibly important had very serious international geopolitical political consequences for decided to do if the Romans are reacting to it at this point you can feel the impact is really an incredible thing when you think about it is incredible and I said the Romans humans did Iraq to this they intended but go coins became like gold dust through them so there were certain things August this band purchasing so they wouldn't lose any the gold coins they had because they just weren't enough to go around because one moung would wavering China at hold the move for himself well. There's it's interesting because there's a little bit of a little bit of a pattern here in this whole concept of of hoarding a particular valuable metals is of of course during the first opium war they British were more than happy to pay silver for tea but they they were running out of silver because it wasn't capable going back to them at least not in the way they need it so the concept of hoarding a true commodity oddity of wealth is really almost almost predatory it really is. It's like I have the power because I have the valuable thing and the weird thing. We've we've given its value. That's what voice on what we've go. I mean sure it's not that common to find but just because how it looks and what we can do is given gold value when you start believing in the value of gold things wouldn't of worked out things would have worked out quite differently in our world. I think Oh yeah there's absolutely absolutely no doubt about it. That's something that's very hard for a lot of people when they're first getting their lessons while on a fundamental level about currency it simply as valuable as we accept it today yeah and that said that's what he did with the bronze coins as mentioned earlier so and he did mornings with money. It's actually four. He invented a ready pretty early form of social security payments which once again is quite crazy to hey and he collected taxes from the wealthy and he used his his taxes on the wealthy to make loans to the poor so he was also something of a overbill who've is time well. He's definitely somebody who is very ideologically. Eddie logically motivated. He's not just a cunning pragmatic powerbroker. He definitely has a mission in his mind in a very specific worldview worldview definitely and something really interesting he did a something. I think is really cool. He put huge taxes on slave owners. If you owned a slave late yet to pay a huge tax and does a couple of days as to why one moung victis some for he did this to try and unstop slavery a four if he puts enough tax on owning a slave peeping Osa even worth owning a slave now all was it just ten for him to make more money and we don't really know maybe it was both maybe it was both yeah which is nice food was. Both you know. That's really interesting though pretty much. When you're looking back at history people are always looking and yet for the definitive answer always was column? Mayo is Colin B and Model The Times. I'll stop and say to myself. Oh why can't it be you know one one from column a and one from column B Yeah Yeah things aren't things really black wide variety of reasons people do things so we we know what Mung did as Emperor of China but we didn't seem to know why he did what he did. As rule of China there were few ideas floating around their habit to reason why he led such a socialist looking empire and want really interesting ones. Is it something out out of his control. They've been to evidence that while one was emperor of China the river which goes through China a change changed course and because of this this resulted in famine drought flooding and yeah so it's for that really messed up China because we didn't think about about things like this now how nature can affect things seem so much in our modern world. We aren't affected by nature like this anymore. Like if a river the floods it it's bad obviously but went the country's a whole with such a global economy that we can depend on other people's goods to come in. We'll see how this time they can and do that. So this river was alive. Bringing a life give it to these guys and with it changing imminent one had to figure out oh my goodness. How am I gonNA GONNA sort this out so that's that's why he gave the land. Wait so many people there were more people growing food for the people trying to eat. It was a reason which we'll talk about in a bit reason people so let's get angry at one moung it's fault because of this because they will say much famine and trout and flooding trying to that's what people upset get angry at him so definitely it's four it definitely made him a bit more defenseless one way or another so a lot of other historians stories not because he will socialist but because he was confusion and Confucianism as we talked about earlier lost upsetting fat it played a real big role in Chinese history and somewhat in China Today. It's still very entrenched so actually did some dig into what exactly is Confucianism Awesome because I didn't say oh Confucianism but leave your that so luckily feeding a really good book little shift the world which I'm sure be linked down below. Oh you guys check out and had a perfect chapter explaining what Confucianism is an obviously from the name of it was founded by a fellow co Confucius and he it wasn't a nobleman but he was a son of a family who fell on really hard times and in this he got to thinking and he believed everyone should live peacefully together and one of the important things about Confucianism is e for outward appearances have lost stock. They're very important way. Retreat people people the way like barring elders he believed very strongly leaving doors open for others standing up when an authority enters the room. ooh. Ooh So stuff that you still see a lot of people doing to this day it was a huge impact in Asia and the lodge world and he also urged his fellow countryman to maintain these old habits and wanted him to stay and bucks at least they lost to this day and fundamentally he full that everyone we want was born on and good and remains deep within them today on. It's quite hard to imagine that we some people apparently everyone has a little bit good in them so and it was sort of days that's for one one lead hockey lead and you can see it like giving land to everyone. Make sure everyone can live peacefully together together. If everyone has the same amount of land they wouldn't be arguing. Oh I've got moreland. You've got Moreland so it is understandable to see why people would think this but also so it's a for he run things very confucianist early because he wanted to go back to the time of the dynasty and the Zhao Tennessee were much older a dynasty in China would be very prosperous. Chinese goods like the good old days if that makes sense of legendary dynasty that ruled really amazingly amazingly in wild and they were confucianists so one monk for hey five on things confucianist Hopefully we might be as good as Zhao Dynasty wa so that's what wanted as emperor that the changes he made to China and like I said this is a tale of two Hoff's as emperor. It's what he did and how it ended so about one month's later years as ruler of China and it's believed that he's of what restlessly he was always working there reports that he spent his collapse over his desk. You've been working all day and night and he just Bush just collapsed like that. It's even for he went a little crazy towards the end of his time. One historian whose name has left my mind right now really thinks he might even and spent a large amount this time a high of some sort of narcotic that they had enjoyed the time perhaps opium as we mentioned earlier and he even sought to delve into the domestic side of the world like he brought magicians to his palace and wanted to see their spells. Veasley disley would've entailed if he would have been pulling a rabbit out of the hat like we see now or if these people actually have actual magic though a more inclined to think as much like magic we see today and fundamentally. This was a very very different man to man introduced you guys to exit one. He's very smart and honorable by now the power had got to him which is quite sad. Little I guess we told by the loss episode houses the challenges of achieving power and Maintaining Power and wo won Monkhood Monkhood achieve it looks like he struggled to maintain it for show up and of course this comes into play the end of his reign and spoilers his death in his elementary loss episode his empire dies with him and this started to unrest the people in China and they wanted the to revive the Han Dynasty and this is due to the mandate from heaven which talk about a bit later on pool. I believe and Monday from heaven was Someone who was given it to rule over China from heaven a mandate from heaven as the explains and it was very changeable some people had it some people it didn't you could get it off your life and you could lose as well and we'll talk about that more bit more down the line so this letter peasants hasn't forming factions who wanted to overthrow him most notably a group of people direct eyebrows what would browse. I'm not too short to fund name. Maybe like they had read I browse as they use warpaint and these peasant uprising sorta began and defeated songs a huge armies and but fulfill Tober twenty free like I said we're going to be going over the twenty bracket exit make sense. These rebels broke into the capital and the people in the city joined them. They didn't fight back. They were like we're in your side. We can a- truncated as well and they will sit and fight to the city and fighting Wong's men and one metro to defend him but just these rebels were too strong and in one final crazed attempt he uses magic check with fences which I think went to woke his hate set by taxing magic exists well that exists. It's not magic and clearly not meant for the human experience. a one took the time just waiting in his palace. I think he knew his time was up. US defeated and he will probably would just stayed up there watching the world burned down in front of him which would really suck dyke like. I said it's hot with one. You almost feel sympathy for him here. He had tried a edges looks like he was in Kosovo power. Oh as much as he thought he was so the rebels eventually found him in his palace and they killed him but they didn't just kill him. A squeamish might want to just take the headphones out from the minute they decapitated him toyed body apart and they kept the soldiers and rebels kept puff his body a souvenir as an in one fun lack they cut out his tongue and ate it and I looked into cannibalism in a Chinese history and it doesn't it seemed to be a thing they tooken that often so that's quite the example to see that they ate his tongue and of course this led to the hunted tasty being reformed and this ended one -mongst time as a two. That's one monks story. It's an interesting one. It really is an IT opens up so many questions which pool. I'm sure you have some foamy. Here's an interesting place to start so naturally you can't ignore the part of the story story that just sticks out above all the rest and that is what appears at least in form as some form of pro socialism something that happened a good. Oh I don't know like almost eight one two thousand eight hundred and fifty years before the communist manifesto something like that yeah so that was one of the things I wrote down here. The Communist manifesto was published in eighteen forty eight to this is over a thousand years before yet that was even a thing which is crazy and of course looks like we said China have quite a history with socialism and communism and this is probably phrase. We're going to be saying quite often and I. It's a famous quote I am. I can't remember who said initially those you don't learn from history a doomed to repeat it is just you see a hey you see you see someone trying to trying to communities and not working out well well from my perspective when I'm looking at this and while you can't deny nine many of the major similarities I I am very I am very careful to to put those tags on it because they're they're very much. A you know a Western philosophy that came out of a very different time and place you know while mum never saw child labor in factories you know he never ever ever conceived of the idea in all likelihood of commoner. Labor collectively bargaining these these are some of the issues that that come around in in the in the socialist US socialist and communist thrust I into the twentieth century but what I find interesting and you get began looking into how this was affecting his people. The first thing that is very noticeable is he was going after the the high elite class every bit it as he was trying to affect his subjects ones. There were peasants city-dwellers. It didn't matter to him. Everybody was kind of on that level playing field and as far as an this he definitely he definitely made clearly a lot of enemies from the very privileged class who are clearly early lumping it right now in a way they're not ready to accept and you and I as we did an episode one. There's always that question about how power is accumulated. How does exercised and in this situation? Mrs where it's interesting. There's called the three PS when it comes comes to governing and specifically in this way given the nature of Chinese society at the time they say there are three things especially especially when you have complete one man rule. It's often been said that a government doesn't fall when the common people rise up it falls when when the noble elites abandoned them and they say there are three ways and a situation that where it's one man rule in which you can govern and manage just to keep that support their three PS versus politics second is privilege and the third is perch and in this case he certainly wasn't doing the second privilege was most certainly very much penalized in his dynasty and it seems unlikely that based on the policies that he was implementing. It didn't sound like he had too many the elites onboard for how he viewed the world or his vision of Xin Dynasty China at the time and well. Maybe you could tell me a little bitter about purge that he did to his own son but in this case he definitely definitely violated all three and on top of that the bronze coins were definitely not well received because many cases inland they read eyebrows certainly were a part of this was it was in fact taking from wealth and then they were hurting for it and on top of that then you have what happened at the Yellow River and so it's very it's obviously very difficult to understand why exactly he did this. You can't deny how much it sticks out but he was he was also very ideologically driven in a way that he most certainly wasn't in his rise to power and I find that very very fascinating and so do I you saying is g wasn't present in his. He's rise to power like when I research became a emperor. It was no talk about this. proto-socialist moves as as we've up there it just seem to come out the moment he took over and as it is absolutely fascinating. Yes it definitely is but there's the other part of this equation as well the the equation that they can't control and that of course is the Yellow River now. There's probably quite a few people that are listening into this podcast that may not exactly be up on their geography of China and that's okay. I believe it is the sixth longest river in the world is definitely one vitally important in China so I must be pretty big and it essentially flows from what we would call today up Inner Mongolia Ghalia and then out into the Yellow Sea but something that's really important for our listeners to realize is this was not some freak occasion within recorded history. The Yellow River has made a transformation from its traditional positioning as much as fifteen hundred times. I'll give you a wonderful example of this because the yellow the Yellow River has dictated so much of the history history of China that you actually have to look into to see what it's all about because obviously Wong most certainly was hurt by this and on top of that throughout Chinese History History Chinese leaders have weaponized the Yellow River a great deal. We're GONNA get to that in a moment see that. This is a really cool so in eleven twenty eight the song armies from the song dynasties breached they breached southern dykes on the Yellow River to weaponize it because they they were trying to they were in combat and they were making a advance in the other direction which isn't a very nice way of saying they're on the back foot and in this case ace the Yellow River diverted again because of this causing it to divert south of Shang Dong all right that if you look at the map Shang Province so where it was going originally was in the northernmost portion of Shang Dong. It actually actually diverted completely south of that province its distance is a distance of roughly two hundred and seventy nine nine miles and if your listeners. WanNa get a good way to visualize that imagine the Mississippi River decided to go up and have a wild weekend in Kansas City. That's the kind of thing we're talking about. That's the level of disaster. It's a level of disaster that would even still be difficult for us today to handle Okudaira and this sort of thing happens a great deal obviously some of its natural some of it is man made but the most infamous incident a a weapon housing the Yellow River was during the Japanese invasion of China after the Marco Polo Bridge incident and Chenggong. I check chose to destroy some of the dykes on the Yellow River to stop the Japanese advance and in doing so a AH estimated eight hundred thousand people died and more than four million were displaced now think about that. That's the kind of thing that they deal with. When it comes to the Yellow River edition the fact that it almost always floods naturally because of all the silt builds up it makes it a very unpredictable piece of territory despite its importance and that's the thing with this it will so unpredictable and is not even one monks full. Anyone could have been a emperor at this time and they would have to deal with this. He was just fighting something so out of his control there was nothing he could have done about the change in the yellow belly river and that's. I guess that would be like an you could look if that didn't happen. One might be more successful. He might be more remembered in history is just one of these swings. We don't know no. It's absolutely impossible to down but I'm looking at margin long and we're beginning to learn more about the man he was was on the whole it is in many ways something of a cautionary tale because he decided to basically up route in early futile society and redistricting assets across the board and of course he lost the kind of support that they needed and in addition to that he also had to deal with the absolute it disaster naturally that occurred in which is kind of interesting because water is not very very big problem in modern China but yeah if we're going to compare him to a socialist of course the other great and great not immoral context very very much in a stature context. I have have no love or sympathy for Mao whatsoever. Well the thing that here's the irony about it so there's a school of thought that believes one of the reasons why he want to enact these reforms was be head was to do with certain beliefs in Confucianism. Yes yes yes. That's that's always full to be that he wanted to follow Confucianism Very strictly in his times emperor yet you compare him to Mao Zedong and the historic irony of courses that Wong Mung perhaps enacted these reforms due to a very strong belief in Confucianism and then his you know let's let's just say idealogical. I ancestor then comes back almost two thousand years later launches the Cultural Revolution which one of the hallmarks was was of course targeting Confucianism are interesting. Yes it's like. WHOA long fully say devoutly as much as we can compare one. Now Mao had the complete opposite opinion of Confucianism too. It's like it's like an alternate. Take on one if we had the socially slight days but without Confucianism we get now unless I'm mistaken putting aside any sort of death or injury that occurred heard due to the diversion of the Yellow River which was out of their control. I could be wrong but I get the feeling that under one among the body count wasn't nearly as high no no compared to mouse. Many body counts a as high as those highs mouths especially compared to his body count. Yes and it's also interesting how quickly this fell apart on him and how he when he became emperor he didn't keep that part of him. That was you know keenly savvy in regards to politics playing the political game in order to further his as a vision. It's almost like he abandoned it. It releases an like Sean. Spicer is before becoming emperor. We have this really cunning guy. Hi this guy. He really manipulate what his way in the background. I maybe maybe he just saw realized I'm here now. I can do whatever I want and he didn't really he. He's abandoned that policies mind that policies being just went. I'm here now. Let's do would I want to do. This is offered to turn of how he acts. Before emperor and Harry acts as IMPR- and like I said in his later years you bonkers he went absolutely and say. Neil's like is blitzing drugs or the time. I was obsessive like magic. It's a whole different person. Yup I it certainly appears that way and the other thing that was really incredible about this is in terms of when he fell in the military aspect of my research is correct in terms of men fighting fighting men. He actually had a three to one advantage. Yes over the forces that ultimately did Jami and they still couldn't they soon can defeat the rebels known the rebels ultimately ended up seizing the capital and they ended up going over the wall and of course. We know how'd that happen next. That's well. Luckily luckily this very wholesome. podcast is rated e deeper explicit yes yes of course that's why we have it there but just to give the audience an idea of what we're trying to do here at eighty history so the other day. I was in a bookshop could waterstones which have they like. England Bond Noble and I opened an us into war history section. WHO's also get book for Research and there's a book about Chinese history of a UN. I come in handy up a new. I wanted to go and I sole. I went to pop out the Hun Dynasty and within the chapter up to the Han Dynasty was just a couple of paragraphs about Wong Mung his time as emperor so I just I just what I was really interesting being compared to the debt we're going into here compared to like a book about Chinese history and he had a couple of paragraphs on him and I appreciate in that and what we're trying to do this book. I just really need explanation of how finally we won't go history here. I completely concur in one of the EH. When it comes to history this is true across the world. Most people are interested in the history of their own people their own country their own sweep of civilization and certainly here in America. There are very few people that would be able to identify who long long was or have much to say about the Han Dynasty or first century China. I was one of them before research this yeah and he has far as I can tell point Patrick. It seems like we may be the most people maybe the people have talked about this fellow mojos. That's generally available at the moment like one moung Zomba's. Yes for better or worse but I have every intention of keeping all of my appendages and to be devoured by no it's my tongue is stayed in my mouth and no one else's no goodness goodness. I'll I'll tell you what Patrick this has been a very very interesting and worthwhile exploration of part of Chinese history and world history that is just not available in significant different digestible way but if it comes to power politics and dynasty and power and struggle. You'RE GONNA get a lot more of that. When we we come back right after a word from Anna Domini this is the AD history podcast keep up with the show and join the discussion and by following eighty history on twitter with the handle at eighty history. PC and the HASHTAG eighty history check us out over on facebook instagram on youtube by searching eighty history podcast as well as of course T. G. and review dot com slash eighty history podcast now now back to Paul and Patrick and thank you very much who we're going to get back to ancient Rome and you could tell us about how another emperor met his demise so Patrick. This is a very complicated story as well as a familiar and instructive story story you've heard and other places in history and in fiction but I think it's best to set the scene for the first time I'm bringing us to Rome proper and we are at fourteen. Ad On the deathbed of Augusta's and it said that his last words words were and there are several interpretations from Latin but I think this is the best one in this dark comedy. We call life have I. I played my role. Well is a very interesting and controversial question although not entirely unexpected and in the case of Augustus when you consider when he came into public life had roughly eighteen or nineteen years old between what would be two major Roman civil wars in a very very short period and how he managed to accumulate power and bring consolidation peace peace and stability to the empire despite the fact the way he did that not corresponding with the best values and customs of Roman Republicanism and democracy accuracy. You have to imagine that the answer is yes. He did inasmuch as this episode is about Tiberius. You cannot understand Tiberius or any Roman emperor that follows Augusta's his without understanding how August this came to power how he ruled how he accumulated power and ultimately how he shaped the role role for every single emperor in perpetuity for the Roman Empire unto the end of Rome itself but before we go any further Patrick get something of a misnomer to call Octavian later Augusta's emperor. That's Kinda putting a modern conception on the role that didn't the existence at the time and he didn't call himself that in fact no one in that role called themselves at or referred to that in any way prior to to the beginning of the second century in fact they went by the moniker print caps which is translated as for citizen. You know basically communicating the concept disingenuous are otherwise as a first among equals in fact the term emperor is a Roman military moniker. You're which was imperative which was given to a celebrated and victorious Roman General. But ultimately that was not how how they understood that position at that time but Augusta's at now where I will for currently as Octavian was the longest serving person in that print caps Roldan later emperor remaining in power effectively parts of five decades and there was a very good reason in for this in fact for even as a young man at eighteen or nineteen years old throwing into the charnel house of High Roman politics. He understood politics and especially especially the politics of the time far better than most anybody else. Could I certainly better than his contemporary allies and rivals because in truth he was a master of politics and later. We'll see very clearly that Tiberius was anything but that but ultimately in our as he is concerned who exactly was octavian later. Augusta's Octavian was the great grand nephew of the Guy s Julius Caesar Caesar yes that Julius Caesar the guy. He's on the front of Fuel Protocols Holding smartphone right now no no that's the Roman emperor no one's ever heard rid of Caesar auto of Cool Sir. No no that's one for you. Star Trek Deep Space Nine fans in the audience seriously will put a image comparison later on in social social media and you'll see what we mean. It's the same Julius Caesar that notably crosses the Rubicon the same Julius Caesar that created the first so-called first triumvirate which is basically a gentlemen's agreement with no legality and it was a coup and he's the same Julius Caesar that was assassinated on the is the march. He's the One Who would stab by conspirator senators including the fame Bruce. Thank you very much William Shakespeare and it was also nearly bungled in fact. It was a total total mess. The senators were looking to return senatorial rule to the republic because after winning the first romance of a war Julius issues are ended up basically crowning himself dictator for life and they want to get away from that just like they wanted to get away from what was effectively poppy as the dictator before Julius Caesar but they had a really big problem when it came to taking out Julius Caesar they had no idea how the Roman Republic Lick would react to that because in truth. Julius Caesar was actually very very popular at the time especially among lower classes of Romans. I know the reason in in many many respects he'd had many reforms that included redistribution of wealth especially in terms of land in hard currency and on top of that Julius Caesar also had a very very strong indeed fanatically loyal military followings from the Legions Legion that alternately led him to power of course it wasn't enough to save him but it certainly was there and so now that he was dead had he had a final will and testament and most important part of a witch named his successor which was his great nephew Octavian and he had definitely had other children but none that were really particularly right bore dynastic rule in fact he even had a son with Cleopatra the seventh the same clear Patrick seventh it will go on to let's say intimately collaborate with Mark Antony in fact Cleopatra will also also in Rome during the ides of March one of Julius Caesar's villas but of course when he's assassinated she flees for very obvious reasons but when Octavian arrives on the Italian peninsula eighteen or nineteen years old and here's the news that Julius Caesar is dead and he's named his successor the very first thing we he does this and we talked about this last time. Patrick is as was his right as his also adopted son which made the succession far far more fluid at at least in Julius Caesar's is Octavian assumes the name Gayus Julius Caesar. Now that's really fascinating is incredibly ably politically adept because Octavian essentially recognizes the power that is adopted father now the late Julius Caesar still still holds with a large fortune in the room Roman public in addition to the fact that he knows there are most certainly is going to be animosity against those who conspired heard and successfully managed to stab him to death in addition to that Octavian gets a really really wonderful prize which is shortly after Julius Caesar is murdered. They actually make decree basically stating that Julius Caesar was divine. This is something that's going to happen a lot more later on when we're talking the print caps role and emperors who follow simply because it was usually a a sign of how popular a a print caps and later emperor when they died but they could be given it could also be taken away. It's very interesting but it's really really helpful Octavian because basically makes him not just the name successor of Julius Caesar but it also makes him the son and appointed air to a God and that is incredibly powerful politically and culturally in the empire which most certainly accepts that as something of extreme value so here we begin to see the very initial framework for how Octavian begins to create this Britain caps and later emperor emperor roll through these slow gradual highwire high power political machinations and in a sense he begins by creating this role is also changing Rome from the republic that it was to the emperor the empire the Roman Empire and and very much secretive one man dynastic rule that will end up taking it to the very end of its days but when we're talking about this and and Octavian is very much aware of this in Roman political parlance whether you're talking to a an everyday Roman on the street or you're talking to a Roman politician there is one four letter words you can never use. Do you know what that word is. King Yeah King. I'M GONNA be talking about once. You've you told your story. I'm definitely dove into the Romans monarchy because it's it's a fascinating little world himself out of and then got himself back into no don't is absolutely incredible and I look forward to that but following the murder of Caesar there was a credible political fallout between a a conspirator assassins and what would become known as the second triumvirate the second ver was a faction that consisted of Octavian Marcus Lapidus and once again mark entity into are vying for power they entered a military coalition and Struggle Against the conspirator hitter senators once again the most notable one being brutus their coalition against these conspirators conclude successfully at the battle of Philip by which today is roughly flee what we'd be considered in Modern Day Macedonia and upon the second triumvirate victory the three coalition leaders but the Roman world into effectively three military dictatorships Octavian gets Hispania and gets goal which is awfully fitting given all the Julius Caesar did to Conquer and tame aim goal Marcus Lapidus basically what gets with a call Roman Africa which is today the northern most coastal regions of Libya Libya and Tunisia runs from SARANAC almost slightly past Tunis and Mark Antony gets the east which is a really really big deal because he focuses his power in Egypt. You makes his cab his capital Alexandria which is where the power in Egypt had been under Ptolemaic rule and with Cleopatra the seventh and also includes a great deal of wealth so at that point in time. It really looks like of the three of them that Mark Antony is the initial winner here but clearly that's not the case or certainly will not remain as such so to shore up all of their gains all three of them undertake undertake what is called the proscriptions. The prescriptions are a very very nasty political purge where on their are extra legal authority. They basically on their orders. Get rid of any potential rivals that could theoretically oppose them again and in the future in fact this is how Cicero met his fate on the orders of Mark Antony yet as soon as this triumvirate is settled the three beginning fighting each other it was never a stable or realistic arrangement especially when you stop and think about it and the ambitions of alter cleared anyone who has is to see in a a compact explanation of complicated events Octavian using the military he's developed which in fact is mostly at least initially composed of so much of Julius Caesar fanatically loyal legions that brought him to power in addition to the fact he also inherited a a great deal of wealth from Julius Caesar so he's able to not just say she stay. She hit them with the booty of victory but he also has extremely deep pockets doc. It's as well and they're going to get deeper in fact but octavian the first one to move on the other two because he figures that as soon as they find it practicable and they get their their first with a blood. They're gonNA turn on him. You Know How could you think otherwise right octavian defeats Lepres and most notably defeated Mark Antony and Cleopatra at the famous Masui battle at axiom after which Antony falls on his sword when they retreat committing suicide and Cleopatra the seventh legendarily poisons herself with a snake bite it effectively ends the Ptolemaic rule of Egypt which had been going on since pretty much the death of Alexander the Great about three hundred or so years prior to this point a little less than that in fact and it formally brings Egypt into the Roman Empire and in doing so it accumulates so so much of the wealth that was any gyp it was clearly being mismanaged by Ptolemaic rulers at that point in time and it also has an incredibly audibly advantageous geopolitical location especially when you consider that it's going to be one of the bread basket of the empire and there are great economic links especially by sea for trade between Egypt and India of course would be very much in a way to aggrandize end enrich the Roman empire -at's yeah that that's just show the power or KVM because Egypt two way empire on the longest lasting empires on the history of the world. I believe it's free thousand years. Egypt was an empire and it reached a point when another impacting gopher is it's just it's just crazy to hear no. It really is incredible. Egyptian civilizations along sweep of history accomplishes much it changes is faces in many ways over Millennia and now it's underfoot and subject to the Romans Octavian also undertakes little side earned of his own very much in the guise of not God very much in the flavor of the prescriptions listening to the advice of a of a friend and counsellor. RSD demise is quote to caesars are one too many meaning he should purge the biological son which we mentioned earlier of Julius Caesar that he had with Cleopatra and mm to guarantee that there would be no other potential political challenges to Julius Caesar and his progeny and sort of legitimacy of who should be actually succeeding him is at once again. It's one of those three Pisa power that we were talking about in the last segment purge these victories led by Octavian haven and his top military general markets Greta unite the Roman Empire under a single flag and truly and for all intents and purposes for the first first time in quite a long time and upon ultimate victory Octavian and Agrippa go back to Rome and upon their arrival the Senate elects them both as consuls mansell's and those for that are not familiar with US councils are about the highest level of power and oversight that you can have in Roman administration. Listen consoles have what was known as the power of imperium which gives consuls and those who possess that power the full effect and force of the Roman state and law by their very edict and desire and give them everything they really need to control the provinces because this is very specific to the provinces outside of Rome in certain parts of the Italian peninsula. This is effectively when he becomes print caps. I citizen and slowly begins accumulating all the power he desired probably thought was entirely necessary to accomplish what he wanted to accomplish considering so much of what he wanted to do in no undeniable way was to consolidate the empire because after all this time without debt consolidation and you can't have a proper society you can't have an economy you can't have a proper civil society political mechanisms don't work and he fully understands that and after serving for a period of a few years. Octavian makes a great show of Republican tradition and steps down from his console pose but essentially giving back power to the Senate itself. It was nothing less than a great show political theater in deference to tradition. There's really no. They look at that but he wasn't really going anywhere. He couldn't go anywhere. The situation was just too volatile. It was his greatest wish to consolidate consolidate as I mentioned and keep the peace should he have left. It's entirely likely that you would have seen other power rivals and others with similar ambitions whether it be general's troops under the command senators with deep pockets or a combination of both entering into what could then be just another vying for power and the cycle continues news so you WanNa make sure that Rome doesn't go back to square one and the military power he wielded itself made sure that matters remained remained stable because even though he's technically given back power and made this great show of deference they understand the the whip hand he has over over event almost in their entirety but Octavian understands that neither the Senate at this point nor the Roman public will accept a bald-faced dictatorship or a monarchy or anything that looks like that this was very much one of the big mistakes that Julius Caesar me made and Octavian goes a long wait to avoid doing that himself that he had to sh- had to slowly change the nature of the power struggle and ensure rule single-handedly but through the guys of Republican constitutionality and all of the structures that had had existed traditionally in the Roman Republic and at this point he also changes his his name officially from Octavian to Augusta's which translates from Latin entangle chaz revered one and intervene of Caesar's fun science fact for me looking too much into names Veasley August this is where we the name of August from just for in the always explaining Ainun them names explaining them names at this point Octavian now Augusta's has become. I'm an independent force matching the Roman state itself not only does he have the aforementioned military structure but he's just as much a financial nanteuil force as well he manages to accumulate a great deal of personal wealth both from the inheritance that he got from his adopted Stepfather Julius Julius Caesar as well as all of the booty that comes with conquering Egypt which as I mentioned earlier is really considerable and it changes so much because he then also has an immense power patronage there is even a story and this is really a classic story where Octavian Opinion Proposes Building a series of roads to the Senate and the Senate declined and basically what ends up happening is Augusta's estes finances most of that out of his own pockets and you know that's kind of a scary thing to think about if you put that in a modern context when you include that the fact that he has so much military force at his command as well moreover patronage Bison political allies keeps his military power satiated did it was incredible situation all forms so once again in a compact explanation of complicated events Augusta's undergoes what is called both the the first and second settlements with the Senate because they want to keep them around but they still need to keep up this guy's of constitutionality with him in this imprint caps I citizen role the first sediment allowed Octavian to retain his counselor post powers without actually being a console essentially neither no neither send nor the Roman people would have him go so for the benefit of appearance and constitutionality the Senate made agust a proconsul for a period of ten years he retained his power of imperium and gave him complete control over proconsul that are covering proconsul or provinces and this is kind of an an interesting little twists since pro consular provinces of course being governed by pro councils are generally the more troublesome and volatile provinces NSA's of the empire. There's usually a greater military force there than you would see another places hence it puts all that underneath the dictatorial and largely discretion of Octavian and adds that military power on top of what he already has and the great great constitutional compromise still trying to keep up this guy's he then gives the Senate control over Praetorian provinces which are controlled old by pray tours in doing that the reason why is Praetorian provinces are far more stable and they have far less military due due to the lack of necessity so the Senate gets that and it has the appearance of a constitutional compromise but for anybody anybody that has is to see at this point. It's very very clear that Augusta's has much bigger plans for the role in addition to that and this is another another very interesting point. Agus has also had immediate allies who possess the power of Tribune Tribune was a power granted to the top member of the assembly who could call them into session and of course they were elected by the plea Byan class they could call them into session and they also had a veto power as well and having that Political Cardi gave Augusta's far more direct legal control over the clearly larger plea in numbers the numbers in their class and control over them legally and directly in the second settlement. The most notable change was augustus formerly assuming the power of Tribune Tribune himself so he gets rid of the Middle Man. You don't need a proxy any more more or less giving him full control over the Roman state so now August is really getting to the point where e he has this bring casserole. He has so much of the power he wants but he begins considering issues that relate to succession and there's a lot of characters who come and go but the first person who came up and this is more of a matter of age is actually the son of his second wife called Tiberius. Tiberius was a military general he spent about twenty two years on the northern Roman provinces of drain has a fair amount of success there but he's a very different character than we're used to when it comes to Augusta's because he's not a politician he's very very much a military man and his is kind of a sad story when you get to this point because in order for this to properly work augustus basically commands that Tiberius divorce his first first and current wife whom he loved and Mary his daughter Yulia you know and this is a very this is a terrible situation because those two are a match may from from Hell and he doesn't like her and she's really really know better to him whatsoever. It's it's really terrible terrible. He didn't like his wife and something I find interesting with this. We took our history normally full of such vibrant characters if insulate your likes people use their words really off of articulate amazing people Caesar Ziza. A CICERO comes to mind very elegant ray charming good talking so person and tie babies. We ever really different kind of character. Ed Ed wonder either POPs up in room issue that often yes yes yeah now. There's no question about that so the other thing that happens as well Augusta's also has two grandchildren that began raising in profile in terms of his desire for succession succession when the time comes and in the case of Tiberius having to divorce his first wife is a big issue. There's a story maybe apocryphal that even a a officer had to be assigned to his first wife to keep them away from Tiberius because they understand exactly how Tiberius feels yes and her effect on him but he sees these two and he begins seeing them as the true successor that even if he does end up taking power or it's going to be in a custodial role where he's basically keeping the seat warm until one or two of them have matured already to enter public life in that role however however in fact both of them die in two and four eighty respectively but between the two desired grandchildren and then being forced to marry a woman he loathes e- ends up going into self imposed exile on the Isle of Roads. I can't even make this up so when we begin looking further into Tiberius and we get to the point where we're looking at succession at fourteen eighty when Octavian has him on on his deathbed even though the other choices are no longer particularly in the running and obviously he's been in self-imposed exile for a time now this is not a real problem for Augusta us the reason why is because for the most part he trusts Tiberius to know that the order of the day is consolidation and that held very very properly follow through on that so when Tiberius does come to Rome on this particular occasion has definitely plays he has no love for whatsoever and he comes to the Senate and they approach him and ask him to fill this first citizen role based on the wishes of Augusta's to succeed him. He begins and doing a bad impression of Augusta's so you remember how Augustus made that show giving back power Tiberius thing goes goes on to make what lease the senators thought was a very very disingenuous and a poor attempt to decline in that he he declined to much declined with too much vigor and they they saw right through the whole thing and this I really great example of just Kinda a poor politician that he was but even though they don't really like him and he is a very mercurial character. He's a very very different man than they are are used to. They still don't make a big fuss about it because they know what the alternative is and I think they at least trust them in so far as that goes but it's very very clear that there's this personal disconnect in a mutual animosity between the Senate and Tiberius at this point and his first real challenge Allen Jr and all of this is when they start may experience a mutiny of legions in Germania and this basically is due to the fact that a lot of Romans historians at the time will claim the reason was because these legions didn't want Tiberius to enter his role as bring caps later emperor that doesn't really make any sense especially because Tiberius was a military man he understood the military. He understood them and they understood him. It's much much more likely having to do with the fact that Roman and legions at that point swore personal allegiance to the pearn caps later emperor and with Augusta's dead they. I don't have an allegiance anybody so it's a bargaining chip for them to improve their lot since they don't have that connection and they have very very good reason to go ahead had an rebel like this to improve their lot because if you are a Roman soldier you fight for years for hope of plunder and booty but it's very very hard life especially when you're talking about intermedia we're talking about a place that very unstable that doesn't want to genuflect to the Roman an empire at any point in time and for all that's worth. Basically you fight for years. People are killed. People are main people are injured. The conditions editions of that situation are awful. They're life effectively sucks and they're trying to use this opportunity to make the better of it. You know there are some diplomacy almost back and forth at least a token effort to be sure but at the end of the day Tiberius does what Tiberius has to do and he puts sit down but it's a very very difficult situation to be sure but he handled ultimately and the only way that he could. It's really crazy stories Greece toby poor. I didn't really know much about Tiberius for like reading for your notes in but it is sad story. He's like the room and leader. He didn't like volume mm-hmm like the best working explain it seems like didn't want to be a part of that and obviously ended up in power due to monarchy and and how these employees find as opposed to being voted in and obviously you volume was always an empire before it was the Roman Empire of must call it was the republic and became a republic because you had the Roman monarchy before that and the Roy Moore Nacchio was a BLERTA taken republic so it's just amazing that earlier how they fell into being an empire a monarchy ruled empire want to gain. Do you think Paul any point join Jerry gold of this Tiberius may be wanted to dismantle. This empire gave back to the Times with the Republican Senate. You know that's an interesting question because it's definitely something. The senators were thinking themselves at the time especially because they couldn't read the man personally they couldn't tell because like I said he was so mercurial sometimes very very very cryptic and it was pretty clear that he didn't really want the role. He really was taking a non reluctantly. This was not is great calling he had suffered a great deal wheel to simply get to this point to job at effectively he didn't want to do but at the time based on his orders from Costas than that common understanding about consolidation consolidation. It's very unlikely that he would go ahead and alter the existing power structure in a way that could any way destabilize is the situation contrary to consolidation and the marching orders that Augustus gives him an additional the fact that he's never he does not want to expand either either. Augustus was very very clear about that he basically told him to keep his rear end out of Germania which wasn't a heart cells given all the time that he spent there but there is the Roman historian Tacitus who's writing about the beginning of the second century and he's doing a history of all of those who assume the role of bring caps from the death of Augusta so this would include Tiberius all the way to about one years writing at the beginning of the second century and Taibbi tacitus acids is wondering this himself and he wonders why the the senators didn't take advantage of this opportunity and the reason they didn't take advantage of it because they knew the possible alternative. They were ready to run with it. They remember the past all too well and the fact of the matter is Augusta's did a very good job. He didn't just consolidate he aggrandizement it. Suetonius who was a who was Augusta's personal biographer basically said that Augusta's had turned Rome from from a city of brick to a city of marble. Even though Tiberius would not be much for aggrandizing Roman culture or society or for you know holding festivals for his people understood the consolidation role but in the case of Tacitus he's looking at it from a time in which this looks like it's a possibility pity for him because he's going through a pair of what are considered a couple of the of the good emperors in his case. You're looking at Antonius pious and who serve as emperor and then you also have Marcus Aurelius best known for his meditations who served as co emperor who very much made a great deal personal sacrifice to Administra- A. and governed very very well in a way that others in that role most certainly do not who use it in many ways for very very personal political and financial gain rain and whatever fund them they can have with that but tacitus totally blown away from this is also very romance romanticizing the Roman Republic. E definitely wants that but he's is also very cynical so you have to keep that in mind. He basically considers what the Senate did. At this point in fourteen eighty with transition was essentially to him the senators putting themselves in to voluntary slavery which is kind of an odd way of putting it but it's not entirely unfair either however when it comes to Tiberius Iberia's I guess he's a very unusual fellow. WE'RE GONNA learn more about him. A bit more down the road you know Suetonius who was the biographer of Augusta's talked about Tiberius and and some of his very unusual and undesirable extracurricular activities when in the next episode ill go and Tiberius that is an exile himself onto the isle of Capri in basically keeps himself there for the rest of his reign which is it's own thing but no I don't think he was ever going to change the structure and despite the amazing resource that Tacitus is it it doesn't really reflect the reality of the time and place in which the transition was occurring is is really interesting story and I I wanted to her ends poorly going to be carrying on disturbed type babies into next episode. I can tell you this much patrick for everything it's worth. We're GONNA keep a very close pulse on this because a couple episodes down the road. Tiberius has a very very interesting and infamous successor. Who who was the son of the adopted son who is the son of the adopted son would making him Tiberius grandson the son of Germanic which of of course is Caligula? I may just do a portion on whether was he mad was bag was dangerous to know was he. All three are none and that should be a lot of fun. I think the audience is really going to enjoy that. Yes food hearing about that. This is the eighty history podcast anyway. I think that brings us to the end of our journey for today. Patrick where can people find us you can find me personally on twitter at name explain why tea and of course you can find me on my youtube channel name explain and for myself you can find me on my newly minted twitter account at the handle at PK D. and history as well as on the Social Media News Platform courts by searching polychaete Costanzo also take a peek at my reader email submitted Q. and A. Column The World War Two brain bucket over on T. R. We have linked down on the description now over to Anna policy you guys thank you so much for listening and good good Bali. Yes thank you for listening be well until next time like all good things we come to an end for today thank you for listening listening to the AD history podcast. It is listeners such as yourself who make this show possible and truly awesome be sure to follow in subscribed the upcoming eighty history podcast episodes available wherever podcasts southbound ulcer follow eighty history on social media follow the show on twitter at the handle at eighty history. PC as what is on facebook by visiting FACEBOOK DOT com slash eighty history podcast and instagram instagram as eighty history podcast in addition to liking and subscribing on Youtube by searching eighty history podcast do do you have a direct comment or question for pool and Patrick drop them an email at eighty history podcast at TGI review dot com also so be sure to visit the show's homepage at Tj and review dot com slash eighty history podcast for Poulin Patrick. Thank you for listening listening to the AD history podcast. We will see you again next time in the ever-growing tapestry of Welsh history Iraq.
"In. The Roman Republic men of senatorial rank could compete for political offices which replaced in a set order and had earned sequentially. This hierarchy was known as the curse. The. Curse Nora was the basis of political and social life in ancient Rome in the fortunes of entire families could rise and fall based on how high someone could climb. Learn more about the Roman political on this episode of everything. Everywhere. Daily. This episode is brought to you by audible dot com audible as thousands of audiobooks available, which cover almost every topic conceivable. If you're interested in Roman history, I'd recommend the storm before the storm by Podcast, Mike Duncan which I personally just finished the audiobook of it covers the fascinating period in Roman history from the rocky brothers through the first civil war with Marias and Selah, which was all the lead up to the fall of the Republic and Julius Caesar. You can get a one month free trial to audible and to free audiobooks including the storm before the storm by going to audible trial dot com slash everything everywhere or click on link in the show notes. Roman. Social institutions were extremely complex many layers of social and religious traditions dictated how Roman society functioned. We don't even know what all of them were because. So many of the texts from that period have been lost to us forever in the political realm there were distinct offices were Romans could run for election, but they weren't just opened anyone the curses Honam which translates to the course of honor was the path in which aristocrats climb the ladder of success in ancient Rome. Each step on the curse? Hanoora. was required before you could advance to the next step unlike the modern world you couldn't just jump to the top job without any prior experience. Also, each step in the ladder had an age requirement. There were also some positions which were lateral moves that were important roles, but didn't necessarily advance you or your family to the top jobs. With that, let's go through the list as it would have been during the Republican period once the imperial period starts most of the rules pretty much go out the window because the emperor could do whatever he wanted. But during the republic, these rules were mostly held in place taken seriously. At the bottom of the curses. Was the position of military, Tribune. Before anyone could run for political office. They had to spend ten years serving in the military. If you came from a senatorial family, you would serve as a Military Tribune, which is like a junior officer today. Usually. Your family would set you up with a general who was a member of your family or a friend of the family and would serve under him. Military. Service and military accomplishments were perhaps the most important thing in Roman, life? While not everyone specialized in military service those who excelled and won major victories were held in the highest esteem. Each Legion would have six tribunes. Some tribunes were elected by the people, but others were appointed by consoles and by the generals themselves. There were different levels of Tribune's that had different levels of responsibility in each legion because there were so many tribune's and so many legions. There were ample positions to go around and almost any young man from a noble family would be able to become a military tribute. Once you've had some military experience under your belt, you could run for elected office all of the elected positions which were on the curses Orem head terms of one year which extended from January first to December thirty first of that year. The first position was that of Cueyer. The quakers were responsible for finances. And payments the age requirement to become a question was thirty or twenty eight from members of patrician families. Each console provincial governor and head of allegiance was assigned to quaker to handle finances. The number of quakers changed over time. There were originally four at the start of the public, but that number later grew with a ten in the late Republican twenty, and finally under Julius Caesar the number increased to forty becoming a quaker also guaranteed you a seat in the Senate. Think of a quaker as being like an elected bureaucrat they handled much of the day to day work which went on in the government which had to be done. The second step on the curses. Was the position of Eight. To become an eight, I had to have served as A. And must have reached the age of thirty six. Eight aisles were responsible for public buildings, hosting public games and festivals, ensuring supplies of food water, and generally keeping order. The number of positions was significantly limited compared to the number of quakers and tributes. There were two eight I'll selected each year. These were from the common people and to Curiel selected from the upper class. This was an extremely important position hosting games and festivals was a great way to get your name known by the populace. Being an Adl was often very expensive because the eight aisles were expected to spend their own money to host many of the events. The position of eight was not a mandatory stop and the curses. You could bypass it and be elected to the next level without it, but it would be much easier to get elected by the public if they knew your name because it was associated with the games thrown by and from the general good governments of the city. The closest modern analogy I can think of is that the eight hours were like the mayors of the city of Rome, they were responsible for the day-to-day functioning of the city. The next wrong was the position of prey tour to become prey tort. You must have served as quarter and be thirty nine years of age. Craters mostly served as judges they would preside over trials and look over the judicial system. There were different prey tour positions the two most important of which were the Patriots peregrinations who oversaw cases, involving foreigners, and the Prato or bonus. The Pretoria Bantus basically served as the Supreme Court for Rome in that, they could overturn lower court decisions and they could adjudicate trials for high ranking Roman officials. There were two really great perks to the job of Prey Tour I. Pray Tours were assigned six liquors. Liquors were bodyguards who escorted the Praetorian wherever they went in Rome. Each of the liquors carried with them. A Fassi's, which was a collection of bounce sticks with an axe head, which is a symbol of power. The Word Fassi's was where the word fascist is derived. Also next time you watched a state of the Union address, you'll notice to Fassi's on the columns behind the speaker's podium symbolizing their authority. The second perk of the job was getting imperium imperium was a wide ranging executive authority, which could only be checked by people above you on the curse Santorum. Your equals at your level most importantly if you had imperium, you're held immune from prosecution for the entire time you had imperium imperium was the root word for emperor and Empire. After serving ear preachers would be assigned a position as proprietor, which would usually mean commanding an army or being a provincial governor proprietors also held imperium. The next and highest rank on the curse Han Orem was that of consul to be consul. You had to have served as prey tour and must forty two years of age. There were two consuls selected every year and the two men were equal with each other and each could veto the other's actions. Being a console was a really big deal. It would bring honor to your family for generations and being from a consular family would bring considerable status. Like craters consoles also had imperium, but they were awarded twelve electors instead of just six. Someone who elected to each position on the curses nora at the minimum wage was said to have been elected in his year and it was considered a huge accomplishment. If you were elected to console without having had a family member previous elected you're considered a new man or a Novus Homo. Marcus Telia sister was famous for having been elected in his year and having been a Novus Homo. Roman years were referred to by the consoles elected for that year. For example, the year sixty three BC was known as the year of CICERO and Hibernia as those were the two consuls for the year. Even, though the console ship was the highest position on the curses on. It wasn't the last position. After their terms consoles were given positions as pro consuls, which also gave them in period pro consoles. We're usually assigned as generals or governors have promises just like craters. It was here that all the time and money spent climbing the cursor Sonora really paid off as a provincial governor. You pretty much had unlimited power to do what you wanted because you are far away from Rome and the final authority. Most proconsul used it as an opportunity to make money via taxes, bribes, and corruption. It was possible to run for consul again, ten years after you served. The final step on the curses Hanoora was the rank of sensor. The sensor didn't hold much power. They did have couldn't be vetoed by someone else other than another sensor. They were responsible for taking a census determining voter rolls and the membership list of the Senate. This is where the word census comes from. They were also given charge for enforcing public morality in Rome, which is where we get the modern words censor and censorship. Sensors didn't have imperium or liquors, but the position was considered a great honour. There are three other really important positions which should be addressed even though they were not technically on the curses Santorum. The first is the tribune of the plebs. This is a very different position from the Military Tribune which I mentioned before the Tribune pledge was an elected position by the lower class publians in Rome which had a veto of the Senate it was only open to. An upper-class patricians were ineligible. The position was so important that some patricians renounced patrician status just so they can run most notably Tiberius. Caracas, did this in one thirty, three ABC to try and push through his land reforms. The Tribune of the plebs were also considered sacrosanct meaning. They couldn't be touched and anyone who did could be banished or killed. The second position, which is not technically part of the curses Santorum but in theory, the highest position possible in their public was that of dictator. Dictators were appointed only in times of emergency by the Senate they were given twenty four liquors and the term of office was only six months. There was no one else who served alongside a dictator north other decisions be vetoed by the Tribune of the plebs a dictator had absolute military and Civil Authority for the duration of their time in office. The final position was that of Pontus Maximus. The pontiff's Maximus was the supreme priest in the Roman religion and was an elected position. Unlike every other position I just listed the term of office was for life. Julius Caesar was famously elected Pontus Maximus in sixty three BC beating out several other far more experienced candidates. You also might note that Pontus maximus sounds very familiar. That is because the same term is still used today as the Latin title or the Pope. Executive producer of everything everywhere daily is James Makhala. Today review comes from user Jj over on Apple podcasts notes, quick lessons, history geography, etcetera I really enjoy this podcast. It provides a lot of information in a short amount of time history has never been my favorite subject, but I do enjoy learning the quick facts shares very interesting. Thank you JJ swift and to all of you who support the over unpatriotic and if left reviews over on apple and Google.
#A274 (arytenoid to asb)
"Hello words welcome to this podcast that you somehow stumbled stumbled upon. It is called the dictionary This is not something something I want to admit but I have to tell you. This is the second time I am going to be recording this episode and the next two episodes because the last time I recorded The audio turned out to be very very crappy. I think I had turned up a bit too loud So this is take number two. You will probably never hear that other audio And I'm okay with that. Okay let us do this for the second time I word is our Yeti Loyd nope I think it's more like our rutten a routine annoyed. I should probably remember this from. Was it yesterday that I recorded. These are a rutty no aid no sorry rit annoyed. Oh God I'm just going to move on. It is spelled A. R. Y. T. E. AND OH I d. It is an adjective from circa seventeen fifty one one relating to or being either of two small laryngeal cartilages to which the vocal chords are attached. And I think last time I did this. I said something like my vocal chords can make a sound like this or they can make a sound like this okay number. Two relating to or being either of a pair of small muscles or an unpaid muscle of the larynx. Thanks are written. Annoyed is also a noun Lettuce look at the it is from Greek are retain not dis which is literally literally means ladle shaped and that is from our tena which means ladle now? Oh Oh yes I remember this. We have the first form of the word ads and Yep I'm just GONNA leave it at that because it's going to come back a lot. This is an adverb adverb from before the twelfth century one to the same degree or amount as in as soft as silk also also was in twice as long number two for instance as in various trees as oak or pine and there are going to be a lot of examples coming up number three when considered in a specified form or relation usually used before for a preposition or a participle. As in my opinion as distinguished from his. The says. This is from old English. y'All Soi E. A. L. S. W. A. which means likewise or just as and there is more at the word also now we have these second form of as this is a conjunction from the twelfth century. One we just have the synonym as if excuse. Excuse me that is staying in and Of course I have to give a shout out to Marc Maron. podcast W T.F. The John Goodman episode which aired on Halloween no maybe after Halloween and At the very very very end there is an outtake where he lets out a gigantic Belgium and I loved loved it and that was my own age to Marc Maron. You're welcome so back to the number. One definition of the second form of the word as which is a conjunction from the twelfth century and and it means as if or as a synonym is as if as in looks as he had seen a ghost and that is a quote from S. T. College number two in or to the same degree in which as in soft as silk and that is usually used as a correlated after an adjective or adverb modified by adversarial as or so as in as cool as a cucumber and corporative Korla tive. Something like that reminds me of core line number two in the way or manner that as in do you as I do. Only if it's good if it's bad don't do as I do number. Four in accordance with what or the way in which that is a confusing definition. But here's an example. Quite good as boys go Okay number five we have these synonyms uh-huh wile and when and there's a part of me that wants to say them like the baby and family guy while and win as is in spilled the milk as she got up. Well maybe if she didn't have the glass of milk on her head then it wouldn't have fallen number six regardless of the degree to which synonym is though as in improbable as it seems it's true. Seven for the reason that synonyms are because and since as in stayed home as she had no car eight that the result is as in so clearly guilty as to leave no doubt Then it says usage see the word like we have a phrase as has is and that means in the presently existing condition without modification as in bought the clock at an auction as is and we have another phrase it is as it were and that means as if it were so in a manner of speaking and now we have the third form of the word as this is a pronoun. Yes I I had trouble with that last time. I guess it's a Pronoun From the Twelfth Century Century one we have these synonyms that WHO and which Oh No it says used after the words same or such as in the example in the same building as my brother was in tears such as angels weep and that is a quote from John Milton. And it's as chiefly dialectic after a substantive not modified by the word same or such as in that kind of fruit as maids called maids. Call meddlers. I don't know what meddlers are but that is a quote from Shakespeare number two a fact. Act that that's the entire definition As in is a foreigner as is evident from his accent accent now we have the fourth form of the word as this is a preposition from the thirteenth century. And I just wanted to look over and make sure that we are in fact still recording and the audio level is not too high because that would be bad number four sorry fourth form of as one on a we have the two definition for the word like as in all rose as one man. I don't know what that means one be. We have of the one eight definition also for the word like as in his face was as a mask and that is from Quote from Max Beerbaum B. E. E. R. B. O. H. M. and. I think I made this same joke last time. That sounds like an Irish car bomb Yeah bartender I'd like okay Max Beerbaum please What is in a Max Beerbaum? Drink number two in the capacity character condition or role of as in works as an editor. I work as a video editor as my day. Job and now we have the fifth form of the word as has This is a noun and the plural form is asses or ask A. S. S. E. S.. And no it is not not what you think. This is a noun from fifteen forty one a a bronze coin of the ancient Roman Republic. One be a a unit value equivalent to as coin number two we have the to a definition for the word libra. All right now we have as again but the A is capitalized and we have two forms. The first one is an abbreviation for the word. Alto stratus brought this. And I'm guessing that as cloud a type of cloud but I don't know and now we have the second form of as it is a symbol for the word arsenic. Remember our good friend are Senecal Hall. Yep here we have as again. Both letters are capitalized. This is an abbreviation deviation for one after site to airspeed three American Samoa. Four anglo-saxon five five anti-submarine and six associate in science here we have a prefix a S. And it says just to see go see the prefix a d. Don't mind if I do all right. Where did you? Where are we gonNA end this episode? somewhere around there all right next we have asa feted are asa feted. S. A. F. E. I d. a. could also be spelled A. S. A. F. O. E. T. I. D. A.. This is a noun from the fourteenth century. The dried feted gum resin of the root of several West Asian plants of the carrot family used as a flavoring especially in Indian cooking and formerly a used in medicine especially as an anti spasmodic and in folk medicine as a general prophylactic against disease It says the Etymology says it is for Let's see Middle Latin asa footed on which is from the Persian Azza A. Z.. A. Which means mastic plus the Latin Tada which is the feminine of today's which means feted. There you go next. We have the word Asana. This is a noun. It is spelled S. A. N. A.. It is a noun from circa nineteen eighteen thirty four any of various yoga postures the etymology says this is Sanskrit Asana which means manner of sitting and that is from Asti A. S. T. E. which means he sits and it is akin to the Greek Hess Thi- which means to sit Also the hittite word or prefix. Es and If I remember correctly this may or may not be the word of the episode next. We have Asante Capital A. S. A. N. T.. This is okay now known from seventeen twenty one we have these synonym Ashanti and I think this must have come up in a previous episode long long time ago because I do remember mentioning shanty because I know someone named Shanti which I don't think is a terribly common name But so in a little bit we will get to the actual actual definition of a shanty thing. We'll do two more. Next is a SAP capital asap. They're all caps. This is an abbreviation. Va Shin for as soon as possible. And finally we have a SB. This is an abbreviation for s best dose and and yes. The word of the episode will be Anna. I really really been wanting to get into yoga and do it. I think my body really needs that that stretch Rach And just and the Just I think it's really really
The QB Factory #6: The Mahomes Mega-Deal
"Hey there podcast pals I'm John Stolnis. The host of the PHILLIES pod hidden season. One of the shows that make up the good fight podcast family from espy nation. Look the baseball season is one hundred and sixty two games long, and there's no way you can watch all those games, so make sure to check out my podcast twice a week. For all the fills goodness, you could ever want and make sure to check out our other podcasts including the award winning dirty inning with Justin clue and Trevor strunk and continued success with Justin Endless rozier. On, apple podcasts or your favorite podcast APP. Hello dental listener. This is Michael Kissed with a quick qualifier. An update on the deshaun Jackson situation. We talk about it in this show. A still mean what I said about it, so that's not necessarily out of date. What is out of date is that the eagles have issued a statement regarding the Sean Jackson situation which I'm sure you know about again if you don't know about it, go ahead and Google it. The Eagles released this statement quote. We have spoken with Sean. Jackson about his social media, post, regardless of his intentions, the messages he shared were offensive, harmful and absolutely appalling. They have no place in our society and are not condone or support it in any way. Way, by the organization, we are disappointed. And we reiterated to disarm the importance of not only apologizing, but also using his platform to take action to promote unity, equality and respect, we are continuing to evaluate the circumstances and will take appropriate action. We take these matters very seriously, and are committed to continuing to have productive in meaningful conversations with Sean as well as all of our players and staff in order to educate learn and grow and quote, and of course the Sean had his own apology which you can have your own opinion on for me wasn't enough, but that's another discussion for another day as we continue to work through this with that, said here's the QB factory. Six? You are inside the Q.. E. Factory were magical development dusted dreams. Come true I'm your host Michael Kissed. This is all a Porsche brought to you by SP nation leading nation episode six qb factor with me as always Marcus Goldfield, quarterback, one in our hearts in our minds mark brother. Alive we are alive. You know I never liked that expression. When you ask somebody how they're doing, they would just say I'm alive. I used to have a boss at work for back when I was awful lawyer before it was an awful sports writer that would be his response is like wrote Catchphrase Adam. How he's doing I'm alive and I. Never Understood I always hated in this day and age in the year of the Rona I I kind of get it. It's dark. It's macabre. is very gallows humor, but I think we're all kind of their right now. How you doing buddy, I'm doing well. I got the quarantine bureau GPS. Go- win Nice. The people look at see on news channel eight. They love it now going to reach out to beard club and get them to sponsor the show so I can plug them some more. More, but yeah I've got some gets a product. And now it's possible, but other than the fantastic beard on calling fantastic I don't care. Of course. There's some eagles news that I want talk about before we get into the obvious topic of the show, which is going to be the Patrick mahomes setting the world on fire contracts never seen before type thing, but of course there is something to get to that before. Before the homes of it all I want to address something eagles related in that I don't know what the Hell is causing. deshaun Jackson to do whatever it is. He thinks he's doing, but it's disgusting and don't know what I'm talking about I. Encourage you to hit the Google Button and get all the context. Do need it will be brought out into the light with bigger media attention once an apology issued. Issued in the eagles deal with it as we record right now I haven't seen anything on that front. I might be behind on that so I apologize, but at the bare minimum of what needs to happen on apology from Dijon is definitely first on the list, because pushing Semitic anti-gay misogynist views while posting fake Hitler quotes about Jews. That's as they say not and look. He's old enough to the point and maybe. Maybe it's ignorance by. He's old enough to the point where ignorance is not an excuse, even though he seems very confused on what exactly the passages he's sharing or really saying then as of right now I know that the eagles are going to be responding to this today per Adam Schefter I saw a tweet that out, so we'll see what happens with that because there is absolutely no room for any of. Of that nonsense, it's indefensible, so we'll see how the eagles deal with that mark, but talk some mahomes. Where do you think I think we can talk some by you said what you said about Sean was perfect. It was well said and they're right. There's there's no room for that and we wait to see both his and the organizations response. Let's start as usual with our history reference to get ready for. For today show dusted off a gift from you, or at least a recommendation I believe from you MS analyst the storm before the storm, the beginning of the end of the Roman Republic from Mike Dunkin, and I'll read from this for a moment while Selah, fretted over sovereignty, the remained rump of the Senate took steps to legitimize his actions. Dunk is a great writer by the way I just love that sentence. They accepted his Report on the myth riddick war and confirmed all the settlements he had made in Asia. The decree, making him an enemy of the state, they even ordered a large statue of Syllabi erected in the forum bear to miss script of his own devising Lucius Cornelius Felix the title Felix now entered his official propaganda admit solo the fortunate, but all of those decrees still left Selah on the other side of the walls, so seller offered a radical suggestion revived the ancient dictatorship. Had Been Hundred Twenty years since wrong. Give itself over the hands of a dictator, once ubiquitous office in the early days of the Republic did dictatorship had been abandoned in the triumphant era of the Republican Empire Selah composed along letter to the Senate proposal that they make him dictator. He said that Italy was devastated. The republic gutted by the fire of a brutal civil war. There was no aspect of social political or economic life that had not been up ended by the events of the last decade. If Selah was to fulfil his destiny, restore the republic to its former glory, he needed more than console authority he needed. Needed absolute and unquestioned authority, his suggestion was shot deviation from accepted custom, but what was the Senate to do? Say No, so they complied with sellers request to bridge the constitutional gap. Now boatswain councils were dead. The Senate revived the office of interrupts. The Republican occasionally use an interacts to oversee consular elections. If the counselors were showing indisposed, that cannot return to Rome. Since was obviously the case the interacts convene assembly presented a bill to make a dictator, Legis fussiness replicate constantia dictator for the making of laws and settled of the constitution. The assembly passed the bill unanimously now Mike I. Bring this up because of the idea. Was the Senate to do say no, and I think that leads us to Patrick. Malls, et does because also somebody who took the mantle of dictator for a ten year period. Was Julius Caesar? Network you know getting it in perpetuity for life, a quick book reference to follow up on that story before the storm fantastic Mike. Dunkin is excellent dynasty. Which is what I'm finishing right now from Tom Hall into also did Rubicon many of you have shared your? Love for that book that recommended before and I, also recently bought the poison king, the life and legend of Mithra ladies because you mentioned the method Riddick Ward and everything like that. That's my mayor someone to be getting into that soon as well so those your QB factory book suggestions of the month. Make sure you check those out, but let's talk about the ten year Dictatorship of Julius Caesar Aka Patrick Mahomes were very similar off coarsely. Mark I mean it's. It's a ten year extension. He's got two years on the rookie. Diaz deal still so it's twelve years overall. You're looking at for the future for homes. It is a five hundred and three million dollars of money, and if you're wondering how much that can buy your what back in by you, I recently tweeted out. He could buy either four thousand private. Private Island lots in Fiji, or he could by roughly ninety, one million, nine hundred eleven, thousand, seven, hundred and sixty five crow nuts, so that's a lot of that's a big choice. A lot of credits. He could have it his laws if he so chooses, but I mean it's a huge contract, and as you wrote for the touchdown wire it Shit had shifts the paradigm because. Because a contract, we've seen tenure contracts before this one making Mahomes, the the most paid a quarterback in history and the way they've set it up in done it with the the cap in mind, the different things that can activate all this these these details about the contract, a lot of them over my head, but what I know is a lot of money marco. What about? About this shift the paradigm. What do you think overall about the contract? You know that piece I wrote over touchdown wire. It was sort of revisit in something I wrote you know in the two thousand eighteen season like early on in two thousand eighteen season, when we first home Dr Breakout I, said look. He is the paradigm shift of a quarterback that we're GONNA see. Because, we still had organizations coaches. That would get a rookie quarterback. Try to make them do what they wanted them to run. Try to make them fit that square peg into a round hole and we solid mahomes read. Ten gently around the similar tie with. Sean mcvay and Jared Goff to his certain extent, but we the homes or read reeds, willingness to say look. People thought you were area quarterback, and that's what you were going to run, and that's all you could be. There are some like bill. Polian, that did you draftable prospect? There are some like you know. A certain will say Irish. quarterback evaluator who looked at Mahomes game against Oklahoma and said he did not even see draftable quarterback. There was some that had that opinion, but reach a look. I'm going to get them up to speed using stuff that he ran college, and you saw a lot of air raid, concepts and things like that. Early on them all his career I, said look, you know the the Hoffitz. A paradigm shift is coming because people are going to look at this and say we're going to do that with our guy. At what did we see this past season with Lamar Jackson right? Yeah, you know so, and now that you see mahomes and his evolution as a passer, his growth as a quarterback result in this kind of contract, the next guy that's going to get paid. I know we're going to talk about Dak I know, we might talk about Watson, but Lamar. Jackson also coming off at MVP season. He's GonNa get big numbers. I bet as a result of this. And so you know the the game has changed was fascinated about this mahomes contracting. There are much smarter people than me to break down the numbers of this. What I find fascinated one they as an organization, thank. The salary cap is going to change. You know because. You see the first you know. The first two years of this basically twelve year contract are the rest of his rookie deal, and then the number slowly jump in. It makes the big I jump in twenty twenty three when his base salary goes to five point five million. That's the first big jump. That's right around the time. We're getting a new TV deal. Ed So. If you think about the world we're living in, we might not see thousand people packed the Fedex field anytime soon. We might not see eighty thousand at arrowhead anytime soon, but everybody might be home watching from the couch. This next TV deal might be massive, and that's I think. The the chiefs are obviously making a bunch of different bets with this contract. One is that Mahomes is going to be great and healthy, and that's probably a safe bet. We saw the guy suffered a horrific knee injury. He missed a handful of games. You know there's also making the bet that he can elevate the level of play once she takes up more of their cap beyond the rookie deal might be a safe bet, and they're also bet the caps goal to explode with a new TV deal, so now I mean. What are they GONNA? Do say no. I mean the time to figure this out in terms of their captain. We can kinda delve even further into that and they're. They're gonNA. Need time to figure that out, because the two thousand and twenty one caps situation in the bottom tier along with teams like the Eagles and they're going to have to restructure some things to free up money, but twenty twenty cap, it is only five point three mill, two, thousand, twenty, one is still a bargain capital, twenty four point eight, even twenty, twenty two. Two regardless of what happens to the cap in that year in the few years coming up thirty one point four Koch Mahomes is a bargain in after that, obviously, it gets crazy, but for this first three years were Mahomes is going to be twenty, five twenty, six twenty seven years old. Those are manageable cat numbers. If you're just looking at him alone. One big impact for example is the Chris Joan situations. They're they're talented. Defensive Lineman who they have franchise tagged and they're in this weird off. With a looming July fifteenth deadline to get a deal done with them and none of these franchise tags along with Jones are turning into long term deals right now because of this weird season, so they don't get that deal done. He would have to play this season on the tag tag is worth sixty point. One Million Dollars I'm sure they want to roll over as much as they can. In the end they may end up doing with the forty niners did with Eric Armstead and deal him for first round. Pick and that would give. Give them some cap relief long-term. Get a 'cause controlled rookie at a premium pick in the building. As well they could also sign Chris, Jones to frontloaded deal. Where in Mahomes light years they, they can kind of mitigate that hit in kind of play them off each other, but either way this shows you the dilemma that the chiefs are eventually going to face in the foreseeable future, and it limits what you can do from a team building perspective, so the chiefs aren't always going to be able to field an all star supporting cast. CAST around Mahomes much like you saw the in his last super bowl year. Does that give you concern mark, or are you just like screw it. It's Mahomes. He's not going to need that supporting cast at that level a to be so illustrious, and and do the things that he's able to do. Have MVP numbers I mean I think I'm more in the camp of screw it. It's mahomes laying out. We talk about you know I think it's to be interesting to track over the next twelve years or so is what is the situation? Situation Look like at the end of this deal you know because having lived through the twenty years of Tom Brady you know there was a certain stretch where he was throw it to reshape caldwell and Heath Evans, and he came at a relative discount, compared to other quarterbacks of quarterbacks. You know they're not married to to to Giselle technically made the money, but he was taking these team. Friendly deals and a lot of people around the league said there was the t twelve thin, and it's ballot check. They're free to money different ways. Like we talked about last week. Yeah, and I I got some grief for last week. was almost anti. New, England with my stance against grief, both it'd around the family as well as other places like the slash channel for my show. But here we go again, but at the end of Grady's time he needed help you know. And that was one of the face, so would we get into twenty, twenty, eight and twenty, twenty, nine, twenty, twenty, nine, when his cap number is forty four point nine million dollars. Yeah, that might be the time when he starts needing help again like in the first six years of this deal I'm not too worried about him because he's so athletic is operatives so grade like you? You do things that are going to mitigate the downgrading talented. The often were seen. His guys can come in and have an impact earlier. You know especially in an offense like this the imagined at some point you know maybe Eric Anna becomes the head coach, or you know as long as anti radar and Eric B enemy there. It's going to be a creative type. Offense I'm not worried about it in the near term. It's why I'm very curious to see at the. The end of this? Is he still going to be good enough to elevate the level of play when his campaign is or twenty thirty fifty point, four million dollars? Yeah, that's a big number. Nothing is guaranteed. You know you your hope for good health, obviously and everything like that and doesn't take a step back. They don't think mahomes is going to take a step back I'm not worried about that, but one thing I do to talk about. Is I actually want to turn? Turn the clock back. Because a lot of different people and you kind of said it smarter than US can explain the contract in better detail than we can moisture Lee so so I wanted to turn back the clock and talk about him as a prospect coming out and the evaluation process with all that, so we're gonNA. Talk about that we'll. We'll talk about Dak. we'll talk about Deshaun Watson all that stuff. That's coming up after the break here on the QB factory. Baseball truly, it is awful I'm phillies writer Justin, clue, join me every week along with John Stolnis Liz, Rozier and Dr Trevor Strunk as we discuss all the ways phillies have hurt us on our podcast hidden season as well as historical anecdotes and rar emotional ramblings on our other shows, continued success, and the dirty inning subscribed to the good fight, and you'll get conversations with insiders analysis of breaking news and stats stats stats together. We'll survive. Whatever baseball can throw at us? No one would ever thought an entrenched Jim Unity. Like Hollywood can let someone come in and completely disrupt the content. I'm Ronnie, Mola and I'm Peter Kafka and we are the host of the new season land of the giants, the Netflix's effect. We're exploring all things. Net flicks by talking to the people who started the company will get into their bruising battle blockbuster. There was twenty times larger than us. which is not a good place to be okay, so in many is why I feel like so randomly lucky to have survived. We'll look at the. The mistake that could have ended the company. In hindsight, it was incredibly tone deaf, and it blew up in our faces s it should have, and we'll talk about how Netflix took over screens, and how they plan to win the war for our attention land of the giants, the Netflix's effect from recode and the box media podcast network first episode drops June twenty third listening, subscribe on Apple Podcast spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Are, we are back here. On the QB factory episode, six estimation nation, bleeding green nation, bringing it to your Michael Kissed here with Cuba. One in our hearts reminds Mark Scofield mark. I wanted to go back in time to Patrick Mahomes. The prospect and you do a lot of work with mark. Waldman's RSP and he had you on for his youtube film room session with Mahomes as he was coming out for the actually watched that this morning and for. For All the dunking that you've probably seen from people acting like he was this sure thing prospect you know after the fact and I don't want to muddy the fact that you were absolutely high on him, but people forget just how polarizing of our prospect that he was even his supporters like people like me and you that were comparatively high on him had to acknowledge that despite the ridiculous ability that was very apparent. There were plenty of flaws. Flaws to pick apart, and there were causes for concern in terms of his projection to the NFL refinement was a word that you used in terms of what was needed from him in terms of what he's been in the NFL. Has He achieved that refinement, or has he more transcended that need? Because there was a point in that film breakdown were Waldman Point. Asked you talking about a play. Do you coach this out of a guy and you just? Just had this exasperated. Deep Exhale as your immediate reaction ultimately said globally. No, but like you would like to see some of this fixed like wear. Has mahomes changed as a prospect to an NFL quarterback? Has He made that refinement or has he transcended it I think he's done a little bit of both his mechanics now and mahomes is mechanics were a massive point of contention like when I spent some time last night revisited pre-draft profiles on him. And people were like you know mechanics won't work in the National Football League. He's too lazy. He's too loopy. He's not you know in any sense refined doesn't have this sort of consistency with mechanics to work in the national football league. He was the guy where in that video I started talking about the idea that mechanics don't matter until the matter. Because what I saw from him was, he could throw it around his neck between his legs behind his back, and he's always put it where it needs to be so I wasn't so worried about the mechanics, but I did think I pulled up my draft profile autumn like I said he'll need to refine footwork mechanics time in anticipation. You know, but he'll need some game speed to make an action. What I? Look back. Talk about a hedge because I wrote with him, mahomes might carry with him a bit of a boomer bus tag, but I'm leaning towards the Boom Side of the ledger and believe that by third year in the NFL, he's a solid starter in the league. Your. Up to like it was Watson. Mahomes to and people were like. How can people had you Bisky One? This was the year. A lot of people had Kaiser. One and I felt like our to live with Watson. Mahal's you know, right. I said he might be solid starter in the league by year three. You're still way wrong. I was still rod is I. Did it right? I believe by Sturdier the NFL. Ted Year five hundred million dollar God drags. I posted this clip on the time line today. It's one of those players that you covered in the film room. It's third and twenty against Homa John. Yes. Yes, yes, yes, he's flushed up into the pocket. He's moving towards the line of scrimmage. His shoulders are perpendicular to the line of scrimmage. As he flips this on the move from mechanic standpoint. You're like what the? The Hell but it's perfect placement over twenty yards in the air down the middle of the field, and it's just astonishing, and that's so rare the ability to just throw out the rulebook it to the to the degree that he does that at the same time it. You're trying to evaluate him by old conventions of what you think. quarterback plays supposed to look like I can see why you might have missed the. The boat on this guy because everything except the result is wrong by those conventional standards, but again I'll emphasize everything except the result because the results were always there with him. No, he had some weird game. Some really bad games thrown in there too I mean. How difficult was it to see? You're always trying to like fifties, quarterbacks in a box or find a cop form like. Could you find a cop for? For mahomes that was just like I mean I. Guess I hope he's Brett Farr. But could you really say that with any kind of confidence? It was such a weird out in still to this day. In the you look around the NFL who is like Mahomes like the? There's really nobody that does what he does to the level that he does it though there's nobody and he was such a tough evaluation and He's a perfect case of wine. Scheme fit is such a critical component to everything that we do in terms of player, evaluation and landing spot with the coaches. And I talked about it at the video. We talked to the ad like about scheme fit and coaches, and it'd be both said Yeah Andy Reid a bruce. Arians like that's what we said. We said look what he needs. He needs somebody that's going to be willing to see him. Make mistakes and say I'm not going to try to make you. You know this cautious conservative Guy I'm GonNa live with you in a game where you throw three picks. Because the next night you might go out and throw sixteen as like. I'm ready to be okay with that if he lands like a Jeff. Jeff Fisher or John Fox or somebody like that. He is not Patrick Mahomes like he may still be solid starter of the League by year three type, but he's not the guy that signed this contract. He's not the guy that's on the cover of Matt and he's not the guy that entity Gordon wants to emulate when he's making. No look throws to the. The, middle of the field to a wide open guy, missing it by ten yards because he needed that and so, and that's not really an might sound like a knock. It's it's not bad situation that would limit the cap for the potential of any quarterback we spent in. This business is so much time like breaking these guys down and studying the film. Just go to take that time and go to Arby's and eat there because the owner of it matters none of what we say matters. What matters is where these guys land, and that's why we Trevor Lawrence. Trait lands when we get justice fields and this next crop, like whichever one Lens With Adam Gates whichever one lands with Eric be enemy like bet on the guy that lives with the enemy. Enemy, yeah, one hundred percent, and it's like it's like with the golf went situation right? Yeah, think about the night after that first round I remember sitting with our chatted with our mutual friend. The Great Dane Happened Goth had God one to the Rams and Jeff Fisher whence gone to to the eagles with Doug Peterson of Frank. Reich, and that quarterback room at dead told me in no certain. Though certain terms during that compensation, bet on wets wide look where he landed and look where Goff landed. Like Gough Winston is a perfect example, but we're talking about, and then you're to. Goth gets a remake of the offense with McVeigh, cutting in and things look completely different for now last year was a bit shaky, but you see the ceiling. A quarterback can hit you. See the floor quarterback had hit, and you definitely see why, in those situations Carson wentz coming into a situation with Doug Peterson, frank. Reich Frank, you know. Like all these different offense of minded quarterback minded coach, meanwhile golf is there with Jeff Fisher and is just an an object Maso that's a great way to kind of Lay that out. Make the case. That Patrick mahomes would be much different if he landed into golf situation in your one, and at that had extended beyond your one that saying he would be jared. Goff would still be better, but he wouldn't be ten bill five per mille or ten year five hundred type of thing wh, what does that mean that contract that brought up against, so we might as well kind of take a look around the league, and what it means for other quarterbacks like Dak.. Dak Prescott has got to be like Oh. Thank you, 'cause. He's not GonNa make that he's not going to get that contract. But when you look at what it means long term, he's looking for a long term deal. He could say well. You know I'm worth near close to that, aren't I? Do you not want me here? What are you GonNa? Do say no so right now. He doesn't have a long term deal, and you're looking at Shawn Watson. WHO's probably looking for a long term deal as well? What does it mean for? Those guys? Yeah I mean I think the other thing to think about with respect to Kansas City. Did his zipper got out the gate right? Like. Look at it this way from their perspective. If your the chiefs and somehow the cowboys get a deal done with Dak. let's push it. Maybe forty, forty, one, forty, two million per. Like you've got to look at while what's mahomes going to be worth that kind of world at so I think it was very smart. Kids city to get ahead of this I. think if you're back now, you're going to say my demands of forty million per art debt crazy. Am I that much worse than Patrick Mahomes I'm not maybe on his level, but. You know maybe getting ten. Million less forty, million as opposed to fifty million Douglas looks cheap by comparison. Right so payment out gotta money, which makes you look at the contract and go hey. On a rookie deal at this point. is like making know Marcus. Mariota money, site. Again the paradigm is completely shifted so I. Think Watson I think they're going to be like. Yeah, pay me forty. Two million per I'm a I'm a cheap date by comparison. To the what is Lamar like if he goes out if he wins a playoff game like if they make a run to it as she championship game to Super Bowl like is, that seems to be the one knock Jackson right now is like. Yeah, you'll hit a great regular season last year. Is it sustainable you? Can they want a playoff game vs Owen to in the playoffs right now with whatever you WanNa say about Qb wins like. If you make this kind of investment, you WANNA see a super bowl. Right so this is be honest here, so I think. They have a deep run. This year they went a playoff game will will see no that possibly come to fruition. The interesting with Baltimore is look what they did this off season. They loaded up to do one thing. Stop Derrick Henry As what should we think about the game? Does it matter? They drafted a paralyzed backers Patrick Patrick Weeden in the first round, but week Harrison, third round, just a matter Buke gay in the third round, they added some defensive line fillets Campbell like. Derek had we dropped one ninety five on their head in the divisional round. They were a bad run defense. They were top four defense against the past defensive Devi Away, but they were twentieth in League and stop the run and Defensive Devi away. They WANNA. Stop the run. That's what they're worried about right now. It's so thick would've playoff game. Jazz is going to be okay. Where's my bag? Yeah, a Baltimore reinvesting in the defenses. I mean they understand of the top five. Away defenses two thousand nineteen. There's only one that has stuck in the top five for five years straight. That was the legion of boom. The Seattle Defense Denver. Chicago all did it for three years or row. Baltimore's going into your four. It's just highly unlikely to keep a defense at that level for that length of Time Baltimore obviously invested in that now when they sign Lamar and I was thinking you know now every every quarterback contract isn't resetting the market. The market is now Patrick Mahomes, but if you get to a situation with Lamar, Jackson where he does that where he wins a playoff game now you might be an into a situation where he could end up getting more than homes, and you look five years down line. You look homes the gull well. It's not as bad as Lamar on track. Fast at trae leg, steal the trae legs, decide rights and he just signed for Ted Years. Seven, hundred fifty million dollars. I thought when this thing I thought there was going to be three commas. I thought this was going to be a trace. Deal. Get to be like you know so by comparison. There's only two comments here, so it's cheap. We're GONNA WE'RE GONNA see a trace. carbons deal at some point. You are mean the the big new before as much uncertainty as our is right now with the cat because. They may might spread that hit out, so they don't have to like lower the cap for the next couple of years or few years, or the case may be new TV deals are coming down the line I think it's like two, thousand, twenty, three, two, thousand and twenty four, and we're going to see a big influx of cash into the NFL and you might see that that three Comma paycheck come to a guy like Lamar Jackson or a tray, lands or a Trevor Lawrence in the future, so who knows? As in? The first three comma deal went to a runningback. Kit. y'All got you, could you? Dave Dave Gentleman needs to. Take one Barclay because that's who it's going to be right. Who else would it be? Would it be I mean? God Bill O'Brien with his love for running backs he'll be. You'll be fine. David Johnson gets it. What was what a squid brained? Eighty okay, that's going to do it for our talking to Mahomes a contract mark. Thank you as always any last words for the dental listeners before we get out of your where the masks I guess I. Don't know they deserve. Crazy wear masks. You know it's. Okay, that's all I like people people not to die in. SEASON, football and fall and Do My job gotta hope so we'll be back. We're going to do that third year. Projection thing the third year breakout candidates. Thing that I've teased for idol know roughly a month. We're going to do that on the next show. We were going to do that today, but the homes contract obviously superseded all of that. We had to talk about it, so we'll talk about that next time on the factory there might. Might even be come and see us sometime later this week, so keep it. Keep it locked in here at BG. An Liba five star review leave a rating if you have questions for us the best way to get an answer on it put it in I tunes with a five star. Review and we'll get to those ones that we have enough question, so make sure you do that and thank you for listening. To the qb factor. G Herb. Hey, there podcast Powell's I'm John Stolnis the host of the Phillies pod hitting season, one of the shows that make up the good fight podcast family from SP nation. Look the baseball season one hundred sixty two games long, and there's no way you can watch all those games, so make sure to check out my podcast twice a week. For all the fills goodness, you could ever want and make sure to check out our other podcasts including the award winning dirty inning with just inclu and Trevor Strunk, and continued success with Justin and Liz Rozier, subscribe Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast APP.
'The Invisible Network' Podcast - Episode 12: Reconnaissance
"In two thousand and five NASA launched the Mars reconnaissance orbiter to survey the Red Planet at the time. The camera on board was the largest gist ever flown on a planetary mission. This allowed the orbiter to identify hazards. That could harm. Landers and Rovers additionally the orbiter's bidders imaging spectrometer searched for water features prospecting for resources and searching for evidence that water once filled the barren Martian landscape in addition to its science mission the spacecraft acted as a communications link relaying high resolution science data from Rovers on the Red Ed planet's surface. This is a common secondary purpose. For Martian science orbiters Mars Global Surveyor and two thousand in one Mars Odyssey two previous orbiters also acted as relays more recently the Mars atmosphere and volatile evolution mission. Shen or may then completed Arrow breaking maneuvers to tighten its orbit around Mars enabling it to act as a communications relay for the upcoming Mars. Twenty any twenty rover part of NASA's Mars exploration program a long term effort of robotic exploration of the Red Planet. The Rover has the potential official to answer key questions about the potential for life on Mars. Much of that data will flow through Maven closer to earth NASA and commercial title industry have extensive robust communications infrastructure as launched services become more accessible constellations of relay satellites relates around Earth. Become more and more common terrestrial. Connectivity is near instantaneous and omnipresent however the challenges of launching satellites to Mars doesn't allow for such a robust network of services. Martian satellites are few and must be jacks of all trades not dedicated communication satellites. Like those we enjoy on earth but whatever the future what of the not so distant tomorrow when launches tomorrow are commonplace. What could a Martian communications network look like a thousand years into the future? What network will support human exploration of the Red Planet? I'm Danny Baird. This is the invisible network. There are some words that stick with you words that a teacher through your way and stuck in your brain for far longer than the test you studied I need four required. Most of mine came in the small brightly colored books of Vocabulary Pass to students at the beginning of the school year each year or had a new color a new list of interesting words to study and learn. I don't know if they still use those books but I hope they do. I loved them. They informed the decisions that led me here reading words off a page words. I found somewhere within myself. I don't often use the words I found than those workbooks but many found their way into the recesses of my mind popping out of my mouth opportune moments surprising me with their eloquence. Some had interesting interesting subtleties of meaning. That couldn't be expressed with any other word. Some made me feel pretentious precocious potent. Some were just fun to say. Say those words often seem to have a French origin. There was nothing June about this Potpourri of words Sung meant a cool composure. Speaking at transported me to a smoke filled salon with the likes of Dali Picasso Rendezvous Mental Meeting or encounter writing it in my day planner filled the hours with elegance and maturity reconnaissance. Meant surveillance whispering at filled childish games of capture. The flag with added Intrigue One probably most encounters that last word reconnaissance in espionage or warcraft. You hear the word. In historical war films films presumably featuring a soldier patrolling behind enemy lines a pilot flying high over hostile airspace or a covert submarine slipping deep deep below. Rival worships. Nassar's reconnaissance satellites like the Mars reconnaissance. Orbiter don't have national security in mind in in fact they don't even fly over earth reconnaissance of the sort that NASA performs has no opponent in mind except the unknown as we turn. Our eyes is once again to the moon in venture beyond to Mars the more we understand these destinations the less hostile they will be to our astronauts but in this episode. I'm not concerned with literal reconnaissance. Previous NASA missions to Mars had done their jobs providing NASA with an understanding of the Martian terrain our astronauts will encounter rather. I'm curious about a more limited reconnaissance one trapped between the waking speaking world and a dreamlike tomorrow when NASA communications engineers look at the vast topography of Mars this dusty celestial stranger. You're what sort of networks do they map onto. It's barren surfaces. What follows is an interview with Joseph Laszio chief scientists of the Interplanetary Network Network Directorate at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory which manages Nastase Deep Space Network? The Deep Space Network is a collection of three ground stations with massive passive antennas strategically placed around the globe to communicate with spacecraft almost anywhere in deep space the network insurance communications for many lunar missions ends with Mars with the voyager missions beyond the influence of our son and many other spacecraft. I've asked Lasi about innovations and technologies that will enable Carr's immediate goals in deep space. But I've also done some reconnaissance. I've asked him to stretch his imagination into the far future plumbing. His imagination Asian for what a Martian communications network might look like hundreds of years from now enjoy. What is your name your role at? Jpl My name. Is Joseph Law Zeo. Although almost everybody knows me as Joe and my role at JPL is. I'm the chief scientist of the part of of JPL called the Interplanetary Network Directorate and among other things we managed NASA Deep Space Network for NASA. What does that role entail Fascinating diversity of projects the deep space network DOC. As as we'll discuss momentarily is responsible for enabling us a whole suite of missions both for NASA and for International Space Agencies. He's and so I think about all aspects of how can we get more science Either from the spacecraft missions or from other things with with the the antennas in the deep space network and what role and to JPL. It was a it was an opportune time I my background is radio. Astronomy Ronnie and the deep space network. The foundation of the deep space network is a series of large essentially radio antennas and in the past if they have done working in radio astronomy so that influence of knowing some aspects about radio technology radio frequency technology. Some the possible science applications and then just Looking to the future possible projects that at the time. JPL was contemplating be involved in so on a on a basic level. What is the deep space network? What does it architecture look like? The deep space network is the set of currently radio. Antennas that NASA NASA uses to enable a whole suite of missions across the solar system and beyond there are three complexes of antennas One is is located in Goldstone. California which is maybe a third of the way between Los Angeles and Las Vegas One is located in Madrid just outside outside Madrid. Spain and one is located just outside Cambra Australia Each complex has four antennas us one very large seventy meter antenna and then three relatively smaller thirty four meter ties But even thirty four meter antenna. If you've ever stood next to one it's it's an impressive piece of engineering machinery. And these these complexes are set up. They're almost equidistant in longitude so each was about one hundred twenty degrees apart Which means that no matter where a spacecraft is in the solar system it can always see Out least one on. ESPN TANA for receiving commands from earth and then transmitting data. Back and what sort of missions does the network currently support indicated it supports Abel's missions everywhere across the solar system. And in fact if you if you simply do a web search on DS and now now there's a website that allows you to view in real time. What date are coming down or what commands are being sent up from various base crop up looking at speak and just to give you ample of the suite of of missions that is is enabled by the Sun in Madrid there is is Data be coming down from Soho which is a joint European NASA mission to study the Sun there are data coming down from Juno which is the spacecraft orbiting Jupiter at Goldstone Currently Mars is overhead at Goldstone so there are two antennas. Actually that are hi. There transmitting commands or receiving data from four different spacecraft for landers at Mars There's also a data coming down from Sean Ryan to. which is the Indian mission at the moon and Canberra Dare coming down currently from Voyager. Two which is actually actually spacecraft outside the solar system and It's actually coming down to seventy meters so it's an illustration of just how how much science the the network enables so. That's a lot of different missions. What sort of services do you offer them the DSM it provides three essential capabilities? They go by the names telemetry tracking and command often. Because it's NASA of course we need a acronym so often abbreviated to TNC PNC Telemetry is the Thing about which most people probably Have the most direct connection so you've ever seen a picture sure of planet. Undoubtedly that picture has come down through one or more antennas in the network and telemetry is that process in which the spacecraft transmits a signal or transmits data or an image from its Antenna from its system and then it's received by one or more. DSM Nintendo so the telemetry is when the spacecraft sends data down to the earth. DOWN TO US command. The C part is when scientist inches stir operators on the ground are sending commands up to a spacecraft to do something Take a picture. Gather some kind of data change its trajectory slightly lightly and then finally tracking the Middle T. is for trying to figure out where the spacecraft is on this guy or where the space craft is in space at and of course this is a particularly essential aspect with spacecraft is going from Earth to a destination we want to keep it on track as it were and the and ensure that it's actually going along the trajectory that will get it to its intended destination. And how is the network growing support the optimist missions to the Moon in the near your term One of the plans or actually the plan is for the network to continue to expand. As I said earlier. There are one. There is one seventy wendy meter at each complex and then three thirty four meter antennas each complex and the objective is to continue to build out thirty four meter. Antennas Antennas over the next five years so that each complex has four Thirty four meters in fact there are two thirty four meter. Antennas antennas currently under construction at Madrid In various states state construction and then there are there is one planned at Goldstone own for which construction will be starting relatively soon. They're already doing site surveys. Trying to figure out exactly where Next to the other three thirty four meters the fourth will go. And there's a plan for th one four Canberra Sort of middle of of next decade in the middle of the twenty twenties and we fat. Then there'll be numerous thirty four meters which will allow very high data rates down from The space craft at or on the surface purpose to the moon or around the surface of beyond the arguments missions whatever current goals for growing the deep space networks capabilities. I just in fact I just sort of Summarized one which which is it's broader than of course just Artemis An essential aspect is arduous but Of course having more antennas enables else not only more crewed missions with humans on board but more robotic missions to other nations in the solar system One of the essential essential aspects is to try to increase the radio frequency at which commander sent and data are received There's there's an fundamental relationship. Between how much data one can transmit and the frequency the radio frequency at which the commands are sent or the the data received and on on top of that things like cellphones and Five G. and and other such uses of radio waves are causing increasing facing congestion and in the radio spectrum. So we're the the deep space network And now send general with like missions to move to higher frequencies So can transmit and receive more data in the near term that's focused on radio wavelengths radio frequencies Looking a little bit farther ahead one. One of the goals is to transition to laser communications actually sending laser laser beams back and forth and again. This is all focused on the idea that as we go to higher frequency so Like eat lasers are higher frequencies than radio we can transmit more data. It's it's kind of equivalent to using fiber optics if you will without the fibers Across the solar system and that should enable even higher data rates and and in the near term in fact some of the thirty the existing thirty four meter antennas in the future what and some of the future ones to be constructed. They may very well become both with radio. Antennas and Optical Telescopes Essentially integrated optical radio with the idea that you can use them either for radio communications for existing spacecraft or maybe in the future laser or optical communications for for new spacecraft. So those those are the key technologies. uh-huh both moving to higher radio frequencies and that ultimately two laser communications is it a challenge maintaining operational network while also implementing these new technologies Sundays. Of course yes Truly in the case when one is retrofitting antennas so adding an optical or laser capability l'idee to an existing radio capability. It's very much like trying to Do an upgrade to a car or replace or Improve something on a car while it's being driven and so always has to keep in mind that there are existing spacecraft out there With technology allergy. You can't change the spacecraft of course so you have to be very careful not to do something that would disrupt a current spacecraft well enabling capability for new spacecraft craft and perhaps the ultimate example of that is our voyager spacecraft the two voyager spacecraft they were launched in nineteen seventy seven so anything it does has to respect and and be backwards compatible with the kinds of things that Were being done in the late. Seventy and turning them into the far future of deep space exploration A. What unique challenges do you think? The networks of a hundred thousand years from must face that's a fascinating question and my my initial thought was predicting that far Out His incredibly challenging Of course I have the benefit that any predictions I make my won't be around to figure what if I'm right or not but I thought about this in the sense of maybe the best way to imagine what communications might be like in the distant future is to look to how communications were done in the distant past and if we think back say say two thousand years to the Roman Republic And I guess the year nineteen eighty or eighty nineteen was kind of it was at the end of the it was well. After the end of the Roman Republic in the beginning of the Roman Empire the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire did a very good job of building essentially high capacity roads between major cities and my expectation is that that act kind of architecture is likely to remain even into the far future so if one wants to If one wanted to transmit data data between Rome and Ravenna or Rome and Brindisi there were major roads. That ran along Italy or along the Italian Peninsula Tesla for transport of materials and of course communications. Today we've we know how to aren't as light or radio waves in a way that the Romans didn't But they still had an architecture in which one moved massive amounts wants of material and communications along these essentially what you would think of as backbones or trunk lines The you know. That's the Lingo Lingo that we use today a backbone or trunk line In two thousand years ago it was a a road but the idea was you have these very high capacity acidy Trunk lines or ways of communicating between major population areas. And then the the information with spread out from there Sort of analogously. I'm sitting in Pasadena you're in the Washington DC area. There's not a line that runs is between us. What will happen is there's like to be a a very high capacity communication line between say Los Angeles in Washington? DC and and our conversation is going from Pasadena to somewhere in Los Angeles along this high-capacity line from Los Angeles to Washington and then from Washington to where you're sitting and that's analogous to how the Romans did it. It's analogous to how the INCA empire did it Sort of five hundred years ago. There were major ager roads so if I look a thousand years out and I imagine colonies on Mars and maybe maybe even mining colonies on asteroids. I would imagine that there will be these very high capacity trunk lines or back. Communication backbones probably enabled by by laser communications And then they'll be smaller networks Around the hub. Points that final communication. They'll be high-capacity. A high capacity between say Earth and Mars and it'll spread out from the Very communication points at Mars to the individual Martian in colonies and same for major cities. Are you find that NASA and JPL are uniquely situated to do the long term technology Makita not realizing something like a network a thousand years from now the key aspect for NASA and just one of the great things about the agency is that we can think fifty years in the future We can think A century in in the future so getting some of the the robotic missions alone the one contemplates people are thinking about Geez. What what would we be doing? Or what should we be doing Twenty years from now and similarly people are mapping. Now how would how would humans potentially. What's the first trip to Mars? Look like and and and how would that work but of course the long term goal is not just to go to Mars and then come back along. The the goal for the moon is not just to go to the Moon Comeback Eh to establish long-term human presence on the moon and ultimately only human presence on Mars. In order to do that. You really do have to think. Think about well what is what are the logistics. What are the infrastructure? What does that look like? And you have to start thinking about these things. Sometimes it's twenty or fifty years in the future and some of the details might turn out to be not exactly what was planned Initially but if you don't start thinking now just just the whole process of building the rockets and Doing the missions If you don't start now then you end up behind the curve and so now is one of those places that enables enabled us to think really long term forces us to think really long term about how to do things and then accordingly once you start saying well. Here's how we think we would do it. You have to start investing in those technologies and of course in some cases those technologies. Don't pay off for twenty or forty years but the very basic technologies being developed today or things. The grandchildren might enjoy the fruits of and I suppose my last question is what excites you. Most about the future of space communications or the future the space exploration in general of course the two aren't linked right because without the communications there is no exploration. It's no no use sending a spacecraft off if you don't get the data back if you don't get the communications back or if you don't have communications with the future. What excites me? is well multiple things I imagined. There's there's a lot of interest in exploring the other oceans in the solar system. We know that there are Now at least a half a dozen bodies in the solar system that have oceans some of them have more water in their oceans than the your those moons is like Europa Jupiter enceladus at Saturn. And you know there's just yours. Oceans are fascinating so oh what must be the oceans at these other places they must be w fascinating We are currently monitoring our own our home planet it with constellations of spacecraft. Lots of space craft other taking pictures and making measurements. I'd very much like to see a future in which we're doing data other planets as well in which were monitoring and perhaps we'll need to do so for a future Mars colony or set of colonies monitoring. Those was planet the same way we do earth. My own background is astronomy so I look forward to much more capable observatories something like Nastase. Chandra Chandra telescope NASA's Hubble telescope. Maybe a future radio telescope but much bigger and much more capable Looking at planets around nearby stars ars to the edges of the observable universe and again those are just fascinating possibilities and in space exploration And won't be possible without continuing advances in communication so that we can not only bill say much. Larger telescopes are much more capable. Oh a robotic spacecraft but also get the the important data back from them. That's amazing Thank you so much for your time. Kurt my pleasure. When I e mailed lousy requesting an interview I sent him an early draft of the opening to this episode? He had some thoughts on the connections between the word reconnaissance and the exercise of dreaming up the future of space communications. He wrote what you're describing seems to be more projection projection from the Latin Pro Kerry or throw forth. The sense is both in the standard usage of projecting into the future. But also we've talked about how communications allows us to extend ourselves in a virtual sense. He went on to add that the simple act of video jio conferencing with him could be interpreted as an example of this sort of projection as we journey together to the Moon Mars and beyond joining joining brave astronauts on distant celestial bodies through video links with earth. I'm so confident. In the power this agency has to throw are west fourth boldly into the unknown with scientists and engineers like Laszio. Driving us towards the future. Tomorrow will become come. A word of the past in this season of invisible network debuted in November twenty nineteen. The podcast is produced by the space communications and Navigation Program Or scan out of Goddard space flight center in Greenbelt Maryland. Episodes were written and recorded by me. Danny Baird with editorial support from from Matthew. Peters are public affairs officers are Peter Jacobs of Goddard's office communications Claire Skelly of the Space Technology Mission Directorate and Catherine Hamilton of the human exploration and Operations Mission Directorate. Special thanks to Barbara Addy Scan Policy and Strategic Communications Director Rob Garner Goddard web team lead Amber Jacobson communications lead for scan gutter and all those who have lent their time talent talent and expertise to making the invisible network a reality be sure to rate review and subscribe to the show. Wherever you get your podcasts? For transcripts of the episodes visit NASA dot Gov slash invisible to learn more about the vital role that space communications plays Nasr's mission visit NASA dot gov slash scam.
"General knowledge geography. Tv and film missing members and celebrity daisy chains. They're the rounds on today's quiz. Have your black spots of the ready for quiz bed number two? Hello and welcome to the second episode of Quiz Bay. The Weekly Trivia Quiz podcast with twenty five questions spread over five subject rounds as usual. This thirty points available when you went double points by playing a black spot card before the start any round you might notice have changed things up a bit this week and given the round titles out the stars of the show so that you've got more chance to the side which around you might prefer to play your black spot in. This is thanks to listen to feedback that have had from quiz number one. Everybody is reached out and commented a really appreciate the support Reports indicate that the average score in last week's quiz around sixteen or seventeen thirty so I've been a bit worried that the questions might be verging on the difficult but most people seem to think that they represented a cross section of Trivia so expect roughly the same standard from now on quiz beds now been picked up by apple and Google. Podcast is what a stitcher spotify a few others. So you should be able to subscribe via your favorite podcast out by now. Please feel free to leave a review on itunes or whatever it's called in itself these days and send me a message through the facebook page twitter or instagram pleads. At some point this week also be uploaded in the first two quizzes to Youtube. So you'll be able to catch it. They're all links are of course available on the website at quiz bit dot com and you can stream the quiz directly from there if you prefer okay enough of that. Let's get on with the questions rambled. General Knowledge Number One which nineteen ninety nine Benjamin Zephenia novel features a teenage boy whose disfigured the results of joy riding accident the Mathu. What is the symbol for the chemical element? Barium number three which Carthaginians general led forces against the Roman Republic in the second punic war before which australian-born Rupert is a media mogul founder of News Corp and number five which iconic one thousand nine hundred eighty S. TV show links. The previous answers in this round route two is Joe. Griffey specifically international borders the mistakes which country has the world's longest coastline seven three of the world's countries are plagued meaning that they are entirely surrounded by the territory even of a single state. One of these is Vatican City which is surrounded by Italy of the remaining. Two one is also surrounded by Italy and the other is surrounded by South Africa. Can You name? Either of these countries number eight. The conjure up pass is the highest paved the international border crossing in the world and leaks China. With which other country the nine. Brazil borders every other country in South America. Except the two chilis one. What's the other? How long is the Great Wall of China in miles to the nearest thousand? Is it a seven thousand miles? Be Eleven thousand. Miles will see thirteen thousand miles round. Three's TV and film in this room. We're going to be looking at pubs and bars in TV and film question. Eleven which Boston pub might you be served by retired baseball player? Sound Malone limits wealth. What was the name of? Del Boy enrolled as local in only fools noses thirteen which pub serves as the entrance. The dig- on Alley in the Harry Potter World Fourteen. Where would you be most likely to find homer and Barney drinking duff beer the fifteen then which spaceport to obi-wan-kenobi and Luke skywalker visit a shady looking Cantina to enlist the services of Hans Solo and Chewbacca Round? Four missing members. All of you to do here is to say who is missing from the following groups Sporty Porsche. Ginger and scary seventeen. Leonardo Michelangelo and Raphael. The Brady John Roger and Freddie the mid-nineteenth Bill. Rogers Shirley Williams and Roy Jenkins a number twenty scooby. Shaggy Fred and Daphne. Ram Five is celebrity daisy chains in this round. You'll be given clues to two well-known people and either their first or last names workout the omitted names of both people and join them together to give the name of a musician for example an actress and star of classical. Hollywood cinema the first name Elizabeth and seventeenth century writer and satirist with the first name. Jonathan would be Elizabeth Taylor and Jonathan Swift. Giving the answer Taylor Swift Twenty one. An actor with the surname blessed. An politician with the first name. Teresa number twenty two a writer and comedian the first name Ben Anna politician with the Surname Prescott number twenty. Three magicians lovely assistant with the surname. Mcgee and a football manager with the SURNAME REDKNAPP LIMIT. Twenty four a comedian with the surname mortimer. An poets with the surname. Thomas Number Twenty five a documentarian with the surname through an athlete with the first name Lance. Okay answers the today's quiz round. One was general knowledge number one the Benjamins F- Anaya novel was face number. Two the symbol full. Barium is B. Three the CARTHAGINIANS general. Was Hannibal a number four. The USTRALIAN born Rupert Murdoch which leads us to number five the iconic nine thousand nine hundred TV. Show the links all. The answers is the eighty brown to geography. International borders number six. The world's longest coastline belongs to Canada. Number seven the two countries are plagued our San Marino and the so photo number eight conjure up pass is linking China with Pakistan number. Nine Brazil boaters every country except Chile. Ecuador number ten. The Great Wall of China in miles to the nearest thousand is thirteen thousand miles long. It's thirteen thousand. One hundred and seventy one miles round three was TV and film pubs and bars round number eleven. The Boston pub. We might be served by some alone. Cheers NUMBER TWELVE BILLION. Rodney's local in frozen horses is the NAG's head number thirteen. The entrance that diagonally. The Harry Potter world is the leaky cauldron before team homer and Barney. Drinking Duff would occur in most happen number fifteen. Ob One and Luke skywalker visit become Tina in Mosley Round number for the missing members round so missing members from the following groups number sixteen. It was baby the spice girls number seventeen it was donatello from the Teenage Mutant. Ninja turtles number. Eighteen was Brian members of the band Queen. Nineteen with David Owen. From the gang of four and number. Twenty Velma from Scooby Doo gain random a five the celebrity daisy chains. All musicians number twenty one was. Brian May the twenty two. Elton John and the twenty-three Debbie Harry the twenty four Volt Dylan and finally number twenty five was Louis Armstrong. Well that's it for another week. Thanks for listening. And please do. Get in touch on social media with your comments and suggestions. I'll be back next week with another twenty five questions. But in the meantime please light subscribe and listen again at Quiz Bid Dot com cease it
The Real Assassination of Caesar
"March fifteen forty four BC. That's right ancient times. There's a Senate meeting in Rome and Caesar. The most powerful man in the republic is late when he arrives. He is immediately surrounded. The senators pulled daggers. From the neath their togas and Stab Caesar within minutes he lies dead in a pool of blood. The assassination of Julius Caesar has showed up in a Shakespeare play and Elizabeth Taylor Movie George Clooney Even Played Caesar once. That's the fiction but the facts are even wilder. There is an illegitimate lovechild. An accidental murder and the fall of the ancient world's most powerful man. I'm Sally home and this is history this week today. The ides of March are upon us. Why do we tell this story over and over and what really happened? On the eyes of March to learn the true story of Caesar's death. We wanted to talk to someone who has the facts of ancient history down pat. So we called Professor Barry Strauss. I'm an author and professor of history and classics at Cornell University and so you studied the ancient world. You have a podcast about it. That is called antiquity toss. Would it be fair to say that you are obsessed with the ancient world into the ancient world? Yes yes absolutely. What is it about it? Do you think well you know? It's kind of like a dress rehearsal. For the world we live in the Greeks and the Romans are so much like us and yet they're so different from us. I mean they were pretty blunt about things and their ways nowadays in which we tend to sugar coat things or paper things over. We see things in their world we can say. Oh that's really what it's all about so today we're going to have you help us sort through the real story behind this event that has become so legendary the ides of March. Let's go back and talk about the events that led up to this so what was happening in Rome. The Roman republic had been on the ropes for a long time for nearly a century. There had been a series of silk. Disputes assassinations violent riots and civil wars. The Republic was becoming an empire and that led to power struggles. People were asking. How much power should the elites have? How about the ordinary people and who will be in charge in the most recent civil war? One politician had come out on top. Julius Caesar when Caesar came back to Rome at the end of the civil war had already been a dictator for ten years and then in February of forty four BC had himself declared dictator and perpetual in essence dictator for life. Something that had never existed in Rome before and shocked many people many of Caesar's associates said. Whoa we didn't sign up for this. We agree to follow Caesar and to see him be the dominant person in the Roman republic. But we didn't sign up to establish a Roman monarchy because Rome is a republic and they're proud of that they had king wants a guy named Lucius tardiness superb and they threw him out for the roughly five hundred years since the Roman citizens have been pretty clear that they do not want a king. But Caesar is looking more and more king. Caesar revived some of the ways. In which those old time kings of Rome dress for instance they wore these particular high boots and he starts wearing these boots he gets the right to sit on a gold and ivory thrown in public either his friends or his opponents depending on the story that we believe have him declared a. God let early. Yeah literally so he's going to be deified. He's going to be worshipped as a God. It's sort of the equivalent of being somewhere between being a superstar and being a divinity but it's very disturbing to a lot of people the other thing that disturbs a whole lot of people is that Caesar's a ladies man. He said many many affairs but the most notorious one is with a queen. The Queen of Egypt none other than Cleopatra. Hard of her over the years. This has been a romantic part of the Caesar Story. He helped Cleopatra Gain Control in Egypt and then they spent a few months basically sailing around the Nile. Together as the story goes they had this mad passionate love affair that resulted in a sun highs area on or little. Caesar that ensured that Caesar's line would rule Egypt without all that messy staging and conquering. A Lotta. People are saying well God. Julius Caesar's mistress is a queen and he has a son is going to be a king. What is he planning for us in Rome? Things take a turn in February at an annual Roman festival called the festival of the loop Raquel or the Lupercalia. This is an annual fertility rite. In which the priests run through Rome wearing only loincloths. They're carrying GOATSKINS DRAFTS. And they with people with them and it kind of mocking gesture anyways. This year. The festival is not just a fertility thing it is also a festival of Caesar and so at one point. Caesar is sitting in a prominent place and his friend the General Mark. Antony goes up to him and tries to put a diadem a tape of crown on his head. It's a symbol of royalty and Caesar refuses it. It seems like some kind of political stunt maybe to address these rumors that Caesar wanted to be king. But it's too little too late people. Start saying Caesar clearly wants to be king so a plot begins to assassinate him. This is where the fictional versions of the story tend to kick off so the main players in the assassination plot. Two of them are famous from Shakespeare. First of all Marcus Brutus. Brutus is a scholar. A great orator. He's from a prominent Roman family. In fact his ancestor helped depose original king. Long ago so brutus is like Mr Republic reputation for honesty and for being incorruptible and there was also a rumor. That Brutus was actually Caesar's son. Yeah so Caesar got around and in his younger years he had had an affair with sir. Villa who is brutus? His mother the rumor was that Brutus was there. Love Child's probably not true but the rumor was there. Okay so first member of the conspiracy. The maybe illegitimate lovechild brutus. The second member is Buddha's brother-in-law. A guy named Cassius. He's the guy who shakespeare famously says is a lean and hungry. Look cash is a general a man both he and Buddha's had fought against Caesar in that civil war but the third member of the assassination plot. This is one who is not so. Prominent Shakespeare is also in Brutus. His name is Dennis Brutus. But unlike the other two men he actually was Caesar's ally in the civil war. So decimates has Caesar's confidence he's in Caesar's inner circle as kind of a mole. He is able to report to the other conspirators. What Caesar is thinking so the love child the general and the mall? They call themselves the liberators because they think they're going to liberate Rome from the rule of a tyrant the liberators decide that they are going to kill Caesar themselves in public at a Senate meeting. They also are kind of following. What they believe is a historical script so the legendary first King of Rome is a man in Romulus. We call it legendary. They wouldn't have thought of his legendary. They thought of historical fact and part of the story of Romulus. His life is that he goes too far and tries to concentrate too much power in his hands and so the Roman senators step in and they killed him at a meeting of the Senate and so the liberators. The assassin see themselves as following in the footsteps of the oldest Roman traditions. Even at the time this plan is the stuff of Legend and this is also the moment when modern legends about the assassination are at their most dramatic in Shakespeare's version of the story. There is a Soothsayer who tells Caesar this famous thing. Beware the ides of March. Did that really happen? Yes it really did happen. The Soothsayer that's a fortune teller. Didn't exactly say. Beware the ides of March. He did say basically Caesar. The next thirty days are not looking good for you watched out. And that was not Caesar's only warning his wife call. Purnea was from a prominent political family. She was plugged in and as the Senate meeting approached. She said I really don't think he should go. And he finally agrees. He says he's not GONNA go. Oh my gosh okay. This was the day that the liberators had planned to kill him and he says No. I'm not going to go. Yeah Yeah it's all planned. Oh my gosh. He's not GONNA go. It's going to ruin everything. That's going to be foiled. The Liberator Send decimates Brutus to the rescue the mole. The mole goes to Caesar's house. And he tells you gotTa go to the Senate meeting so escorted by decimate Caesar goes to the fatal Senate meeting what happens. Well there are over sixty conspirators. They don't all mob in a small group of conspirators. Come to see him to present a petition and at a given signal one of them who is close to him holes down Caesar's Toga and Caesar says what this is violence the other conspirators. Pull their daggers. From under their togas and start stabbing and Caesar is fighting back. He is after all a soldier. He's a professional soldiers entire life. He's not just GonNa sit there but they overpower him. The senators look on in complete horror. Shock to of Caesar's allies. Try to get up to help Cesar to save Caesar. But they're unable to do so there too many conspirators too tightly around Caesar in very short order in a minute are few minutes they kill Caesar and he falls in Shakespeare's version. This is where we get the most famous line. Et Tu Brute. Say Youtube Rudas. Professor Strauss told us it didn't happen. He just Kinda grunted and tried to save his life. But there's a rumor that he said something he didn't say it. But here's the rumor and the rumors wonderful. It's kind of like to say it's not in Latin. It's in Greek Greek for educated. Romans was equivalent of French educated. Americans it is the language that sticky people speak and so Caesar supposedly turn to brew said Kaizu technician you to child which according to the rumor meant you really are my son and you have just murdered your father. You've committed patricide or parasite the worst crime in the annals of Rome and with that the assassins have succeeded. Caesar lies dead. Everybody in Rome is scared. Out of their minds. People are locking themselves into their houses meanwhile the conspirators march through the streets of room. Their bloody daggers. Crying out liberty. Caesar's body is taken away and an autopsy is performed. It's actually the first autopsy that we have a record of it finds that Caesar had twenty three stab wounds but only one a chest wound was fatal. Caesar's funeral was a massive public event in the Shakespeare version. There's a famous speech by mark. Antony it begins friends Romans countrymen lend me your ears Antony does give speech he kinda leads. The audience like a cheerleader in a football game. Saying Caesar did this. And what do you think about the way he was treated? No no no. Furthermore Antony had made a wax model of Caesar's body showing the wombs that he was given by the conspirators and the purpose of this is to incite a riot and there is a riot and there is a murderer. The wrong man is murdered. One of the men who assassinated Caesar is a politician named Cinna. But there's another guy named Cinna. He is a poet and a supporter of Caesar and the crowd turns on the wrong Senna. So it's a very ugly scene. Things only get uglier in his will. Caesar named his eighteen year old grand nephew as his heir. Dining guys octavius. Octavius is brilliant unscrupulous ambitious and dynamic and he goes on to stir up a war which lasts for a long time ultimately ends about fourteen years later with him becoming the new. Caesar the new rule over. We know him. As the emperor of steps Cassius and Brutus are both defeated in this war and they both kill themselves when they realized that their armies are going to win. Augusta's takes power. Cesar gets his revenge from beyond the grave. The assassins are failures. I mean they cause a lot of trouble. They put up a good fight but they fail in the end and Rome becomes a monarchy. Augusta's tries to hide the fact that he's a King he learned from Caesar. Not Great idea to call yourself. A dictator in the office of dictator is officially abolished instead. Augustus calls himself the first citizen. Man That is some spin so Caesar's legacy continues in Rome and his story is told again and again through the ages though maybe not in the way he would have wanted for. The American revolutionaries for example Cassius and Brutus are heroes and Caesar becomes the classic tyrannical dictator. Professor Strauss. Says it's actually more complicated than that. Caesar was in many ways the champion for ordinary people in Rome. The tragedy of the Romans is. They couldn't somehow square the circle. They couldn't have popular government that really looked after ordinary people while at the same time offering liberty and freedom of speech. Those who wanted it. Brutus and cash didn't care that much about the Roman people. Caesar didn't care about freedom of speech and freedom of Fahd and that's the sad and complicated reality that was facing the Romans. I think the literary stories often forget that but at the same time the true story is so literary a classic tale of giant brought low Shakespeare says it pb strides the world like a Colossus. The guys concord everyone in everything. He is such a genius. He's made a God. No one can stop him and he is assassinated killed like a dog in the Roman Senate. I mean it's just such a sign of mortality of you know the fate that awaits us and then the fact that the liberators end up failing in Rome gets to be a monarchy anyhow. Wow I mean such a story. Thanks for listening to history this week for more moments throughout history that are also worth watching. Check your local TV listings to find out. What's on history today? This podcast is produced. By mckanie Lynn Juliana grueter and me valley home. Our editor and sound designer. Is Dan Rosado and our researcher is Emma. Fredericks are executive producers are Jesse counts and Ted Butler. Don't forget to subscribe rate and review history. This week wherever you get your podcast and we will see you next week.
Famous Fates: Cleopatra
"We hope you enjoyed this episode from our series famous fates. It's about the impactful lives in shocking. Deaths of history's most influential people to hear. Even more episodes each week subscribed to famous fates exclusively on spotify. And how will I know when it's Alexandrian Andrea on horizon. You will feel it in your heart CLEOPA. You will feel that God in your soul rise up they will welcome us. We Return with the forces of Rome at our back. Alexandria has no home to their kind. Bernice will not be pleased. The pleasure of your older sister is not my primary concern but she is. Our family is contingent truly necessary. Your mind of such youthful fencing. We're of the PTOLEMAIC line. We are no family we are a battleground of Gods. We Guide beautiful Egypt with only one another as competitors. There is no room there is no other realm as far as we must concern assert ourselves the fate of Egypt is in our hands and if we must bloody our own to keep it safe saddens me. Their niece was always kind kind to me as a child. Yet the moment you began to walk to speak to learn you became the enemy. Cleopatra we cannot trust our own blood only judge them and sometimes find them lacking God king of Egypt. Hail a loose caboose. Do you ride well very well men to experience the majesty of Alexandria and reclaim it in your rightful name and your Roman men will always find a home there as long as my true who line rules. Where are your sons should not return to her carriage? Dust cannot be good for a complexion. How dare you? The girl must learn in the ways of war. Lewis would sound like madness to my ears but who am I to question a God. Do you know what the name Cleopatra Means Noble Guinea's aeneas only that many of you women are it. It means the glory of the father. When I was born a sliver of my father sold passed into mind? It made me into the dodd. Who now rides before you? I urge you to reign in your beast for sure right ahead of us. Is that a front and a bad omen for your future and Alexandria Korea telling me a great federal. Of course I meant no disrespect. Alexandria will soon be yours again right. Well God King and you as well Cleopatra. Glory of the Father Indeed Hi Vanessa Richardson. And I'm Corduroy. Welcome to famous fates a par cast original exclusive to spotify each. We'll release five. Fresh episodes centered around a common theme such as Hollywood icons influential women or music legends in each each episode. We'll take a close look at the remarkable life of a different person with the help of voice. Actors will dramatize their incredible lives reimagining. Their greatest list and weakest moments then will examine their controversial deaths. Some deaths came too soon. Some remains shrouded in mystery and and some changed the world forever today. We're covering Cleopatra. The seventh fellow Potter empress of the NIHIL. Her death is memorialized memorialized in Shakespeare's Antony and Cleopatra but her life held an equal caliber of drama. You can find episodes of famous fates and all other podcast cast originals for free on spotify to stream famous fates for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type famous fates in the search bar. Famous misfits is a spotify exclusive. So you can only find it on spotify at podcast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Then let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at par cast and twitter at podcast network. Now back to the life of Cleopatra aw after years of exile from Alexandria due to the interference of his daughter Baroness telling me to twelve twelve and Cleopatra returned home in fifty five BC but before we return with them. Let's backtrack a little further because to truly understand the story of Egypt's last Ptolemaic Pharaoh. It's best to understand the strange world of the PTOLEMAIC LINE in its entirety. It all began with Alexander the great the legendary Macedonian Indian leader who conquered much of the known world by three hundred twenty three B C upon his first visit to Egypt. He founded the city of Alexandria as his promised. Land only dies soon. Afterward has his empire fractured at the seams. One of Alexander's greatest generals took charge of Alexandria told me the first seeing seeing his chance and taking it he defended Egypt from outside invaders and took up the mantle of the Egyptian Pharaoh. This was an interesting tactic. Although Tony we had no connection to the past pharaohs of Egypt in terms of bloodline by adopting the traditions and imagery of the role. He reclaimed it for himself. And the coming toll AMAC line. One of those traditions was in naming. Most men were called told me and most women took the name. Arsenault baroness or Cleopatra. Over the years too key motifs developed the tolmie family would marry their siblings and they would kill their siblings like told me. The Twelfth Taught Cleopatra the seventh the toll of make line was a crowded one and if you wanted power you had to fight to make your voice heard well. Both kings and Queens were held in high esteem. Only a few women were ever able to rule alone. Death or imprisonment quickly found them. Such was the story of our Cleopatra's older sister baroness the fourth. When told me the twelfth and Gabinia stormed into Alexandria? They ended her rule and executed. Her Cleopatra was baptized by fire. Into this tradition of family really warfare. She became her father's Co regent and deputy at fourteen years old during a particularly rocky period and ptolemaic history their rule was spread wide across seas to Cyrus and Cyrus and the influence of the Roman republic spur discord as famine and floods wreaked havoc on Egyptian lands then in March fifty one BC Tola may the twelfth fell gravely. Ill father can you still see me any of course little Isis my glory. I Will See you until the heavens collapse in on themselves. Father you must stay strong. Egypt is not done with you yet. Were your brothers your sister. They fear the state urine. They cannot face you as you are. You stir me down as if I were twenty years younger. I know your soul remains a fire. You taught me the strength of the Ptolemaic Soul. You Have Great Ability Ludi Cleopatra Power of words and will it is the quiet power of women. The Unseen Force beneath beauty is in training. You always said Ed and father. I have a request for you. Today told me the thirteenth. He readies himself to lead those. Who should is your brother and ruler yet? I am the one you have raised for the position. Am I not while not in my original plan. Yes Cleopatra you are my true air but in the eyes of Egypt your brother is a necessity. I don't understand father. He's too rash. When Ptolemy the first founded our dynasty he founded it on the tradition of the gods before him to every horace there must be isis and for each isis? A Horse in turn would this world in its current state. I believe too dangerous for you alone in your mind. Truly isn't the same as it once was odor you you're still my daughter and I obey as I always do father but I know that Egypt who one day be mine alone. This family grows weaker by each generation. honoration it is my blood that leads us into a true future. I will not mingle it with my brothers. Take this as my final lesson then. Rises is as far as you can daughter but keep your eyes from drifting to the sky for it leaves you exposed rest and rest assured my rain will be the last insecure one in the history of the world. I would bring our Egypt to the sky with me. mm-hmm within days Tola May. The twelfth passed away and Cleopatra and her Middle Brother Tola may the thirteenth were declared joint. Regents of the Egyptian Kingdom Kingdom Cleopatra was right about one thing. Generations of incestuous relationships did lead to health and mental problems in the family and told me the thirteenth gene was a week and rather ineffective royal presence. While Cleopatra Married the thirteenth they produced no heirs together. It didn't take long for her. Little brother to realize said Cleopatra didn't plan to share too much of the spotlight with him. You've gone to foster. What could it be this time? Little One how dare you disrespect me like this. For eons. The face of the Pharaoh has graced Egyptian coin. Now all that remains is your womanly visage. You left me no choice. Does tradition means so little to you. The Citizens Ben the neater us you must bend the knee to meet. I am the male heir of the Ptolemaic Reign. I am the chosen son of Alexander and just Egypt. Have Your eyes been closed your entire life. We memorized tradition. But I at least have learned. The world is a very different place than the texts. Give us hundreds of years have passed since the founding of our line brother. Even you must admit. Do you even want to be ruler. I I don't I don't care for the insinuation. Do not try to simply talk your way out of decorum you cannot remake the world in your image by removing mind observed me and you'll be proven wrong. While Young Cleopatra managed to raise herself above toll may the thirteenth in the public eye. It only urged him to go further into revolt. He turned to the legions of Roman soldiers left behind by Alice. Cabanas known as the Gubkin. Yanni you see Cleopatra. Oh Patrick had given up Goblin. Yanni soldiers after group of them murdered a Syrian governor son. Their Roman pride perfectly matched Tola may the Thirteenth Tola May the thirteenth kindled the anger of those who opposed. Cleopatra's Feminine Dominance and soon her enemies came home to roost Sister is that you keep your head down. My guards have checked these passages but one can never be sure of the shadows in Alexandria brother aims to have your head. At least he's learning how this leadership role actually functions. Only you could find something admirable and such treachery. I must be impressed. He reigned in his foolish impulses enough up to unify a force of more intelligent men against me at least to give us a game to play a game. Sister were fleeing for our lives. You could say unfortunately you have not made it very secure for the Tomac women. Have you noticed that we're the only ones left then. Let it be known arsenault. We won't be the only ones left for law still l.. You cling to hopes of victory. Where will we go? How will we return? Our little brother. Thinks he's the strongest man in the world. He's very very wrong. You know stronger not yet but I will will return to our story in just a moment. podcast listeners. We have a special treat for you our entire back catalogue of historical figures episodes are are available for you to listen to right now. That's forty-seven classic episodes of historical figures. Ready for you to unwrap this holiday season from the Ardo Da Vinci and Marie Curie Marco Polo and John Adams you can access all forty-seven exceptional stories whenever you want. And here's the best part you. You don't even have to do anything these episodes are already in your feet. And don't forget you can hear new episodes of historical figures every other Wednesday checkout checkout more podcast shows on spotify by searching for par cast in the spotify search bar or by going to spotify dot com slash. PODCAST now back to the life of Cleopatra as Cleopatra Cooled off in exile Toll Oh Lemay the thirteenth tried his hand global politics. He had his chance when Rome descended onto. Its first wave of civil war with would be dictator. Julius Caesar Aligned Aligned against the lauded Roman General pompey Caesar pushed pompey out of Rome and the generals retreat landed him in Egypt. Cleopatra had predicted correctly likely thirteen-year-old told me wanted to play with the big boys so when pompey got off his ship Ptolemy the thirteenth arrested him and then in front of pompey's vs wife and children the Pharaoh ordered the beheading of the infamous Roman Ptolemy thought. Such a bold move would win favor with Julius. Caesar it did the opposite also while pompey had become his enemy. Cesar was a Patriot in his heart and found the foreign execution. Distasteful and heartbreaking in response. Caesar himself stormed armed into Alexandria. Easily assuming command in the wake of Cleopatra and PTOLEMIES power struggle with a new man in charge one freed from petty concerns about Tradition Cleopatra devised a way to make her way back into power as Caesar took up residence in the Royal Hall of the Pharaohs Cleopatra Found aid from her old loyal servants servants rolled herself up into an ornate rug and was hand delivered into Caesar's chamber and place it there. I'll set it up myself. What Cory I figured you might be pleased leased to receive a gift such as me roll the content is surely welcome but the motivation must be questioned? Helped me stand. At least I trust. You have no hidden blade. Look Look at me Mighty Caesar where would I hide such thing. My Name Cleopatra. The seventh the laboratory rightful ruler of Egypt the exiled queen. I come and go as I please somehow. I doubt this shouldn't I as a Roman you of all all men should understand the struggle for viable leadership. I assume you've met my brother. The killer of pompey boy without a head took a true Romans for his own. Unforgivable forgivable bet is still under consideration consider no more Julius. Caesar I bring you your answer in the form of woman. Your words carry little logic. Hasn't as of yet but still. I feel purpose radiate from you as opposed to the cold sweaty desperation of your kin. You need only look upon my little brother to see weakness. Tell me do I carry any of his look in me no I see fire it solidifies. My core I've been told by many men I was born to be made into monuments assured self fluttering has never rung so true to my ears. I know the secret of Beauty Caesar Without Him Bishen without passion that wisdom there is no such thing as beauty. Life is not lived for statues or stone stone can barely really captured true essence. The greatest among us have so many monuments made because artists cannot help but attempt to capture if liquoring second of our lifelong fire and do you see such essence in any but yourself that is my final wonder I was carried here in a bundle of dust. And would you believe someone like me would be subjected to such treatment. If I did not believe that together my Caesar we could make such fine monument. It was nothing but charm. Cleopatra seduced the greatest man in Roman history to her side in forty eighty seven BC. Exactly nine months after first meeting. Cleopatra gave birth to Caesar's son Ptolemy Caesar the merging of two great families. His nickname was cessarion. Which meant little Caesar? She was twenty. One and Caesar was fifty two but with the birth of Caesarian. Cleopatra Sealed her alliance. Julius backed her claim against told me the thirteenth. This was the final violent reckoning of the PTOLEMAIC LINE PTOLEMY The thirteenth the raised an army against his sister and the Roman Cleopatra's last surviving sister arsenault fed up with her sisters plotting and perhaps fearful for her own life down. The rhode chose to stand with Ptolemy and the tradition that entailed with Arsenal's leadership a great aid to Tolmie. Caesar's forces became trapped in the city during an event that became known to history as the siege of Alexandria. It took Caesar some time to rally reinforcements. He captured Ptolemy. But the other side traded did the Pharaoh for Arsenault. Cleopatra promptly threw her traitorous sister into confinement while Ptolemy went against his word and continued the conflict when Caesar. You're finally broke the siege. He faced off against Ptolemy the thirteenth on the Nile. The site of Pompey's murder in defeated him once and for all as is is ships burned in the river. Cleopatra watched her brother drown. Caesar declared Cleopatra and her youngest and final brother told me the fourteenth eighteenth core regions yet this time we patras dominance was guaranteed in forty seven BC accompanied by both. The infant's is sorry on and Ptolemy the fourteenth followed Caesar back to Rome for the first time. This was a scandalous decision. On their part as Caesar was already married to California Yeti still housed his foreign mistress in his country home. Caesar went so far. As to erect a statue of Cleopatra. As Isis in the temple of Venus in the middle of the Forum Julian Tantamount to declaring her a Roman icon. She would continue to come visit him over the next three years solidifying her status in in Roman Society and angering the senators like Cicero and Cassius. Who Oppose Caesar's growing control and influence? This was already a momentous time with the defeat of pompey Caesar send it to another level eventually becoming consul without any sort of CO console breaking Roman tradition and establishing himself as essentially dictator for life. Cleopatra still held some power over him for instance after she introduced him to her astrologer. Caesar updated the Roman calendar is a hybrid with Egypt's creating what is essentially our modern Western calendar yet. Not every sweet. Nothing Cleopatra whispered in his ear worked its magic. Her primary concern was directed towards Caesarians Future Cleopatra. My Love I received word but it was locked in ceaseless debate with the tiresome. CICERO CATO's demise has only urge these fools onward in their campaign against me. I received word of my own regarding your nephew. Octavian do you choose is to oppose my decision. Making I come from a land where blood flows from the gods to the rulers. I only assumed the same would be true under the leadership of a man such as yourself octavian Venus my nephew cesare on your son a ridiculous name for a boy. He's already enough of a controversy as is. Would you like me to name you Queen Green of Rome as well. I've never asked for such a thing you know I haven't wolf you're with would eat you alive and I need to breathe it sometimes. I you get the feeling I am little but a stepping stone to you. Do not pretend I am anything but an after thought to you. I do not mind it Julius. I know I can never truly live in Rome but why would i Alexandria is Migrate Kingdom. I only seek to unify empowered. Both you seek a world order that the world is not ready to sustain. Do not not plan to wait on the world to catch up. My job is to lead is not our purpose or if you lost that too in the fog of your own power woman woman. Do not leave me here. That's why I'm leaving this empire. Julius and taking our son back to the one. He is suited to Cleopatra broke. Caesar's hard heart but before her carriage had left Rome her ex lover was assassinated by his own. Senators perhaps feeling inspired when she returned to Alexandria. Cleopatra proceeded to poison the final brother Ptolemy little fourteenth eighteenth died before he even reached puberty in all honesty knowing the reach of her ambition. Such a quiet fate was probably a mercy to the boy doing what Caesar would not ought Cleopatra Name so sorry on her co region the horace to her isis she prepared to raise him as the ultimate successor to both the Western and eastern eastern worlds. It was a perfect arrangement for Cleopatra's ruling style. Her Co regent was still swaddled in babies cloth and was completely under her control so she began again to make some big political moves. And the I was siding with this Assyrian side in the renewed Roman civil war while brutus and Cassius raged against the status this quo the new Roman triumvirate controlled mainly by Caesar's best friend in general Mark Antony and his heir apparent Octavian thought to hold onto the old Rome in forty one BC. Cleopatra is called before Mark Antony in Tarsus a city in Modern Day Turkey Console Antony Cleopatra of Egypt comes before you today Gods are excused. Lethal with me yes please gods I see so you come with Your charm in tact not to mention a grand parade at your back did I. I do not even notice such things anymore. I was very very prepared to dislike you. After everything I am always prepared to be disliked. Triumph here please. Julius was friend to us both let us dismiss the formality. I sense that your invitation was more of an order than anything else. Excuse any formal preparation. I may have taken in the public eye. I wanted this to be recorded. Quarter doesn't accusation. But there's little doubt in my mind that you're on the side of the Syrians. You need not look further than the name of my only son Lovely Cleopatra my true purpose and asking you here is request your help. I intend to make war against the Patriots. I must display skill above the sorts of my fellow travelers. I fear it would be the only way to hold room together. I am and always have been a woman of unification power must be held by the most responsible among us yes. There are rumors that you do not play well with others. You're dead brethren husbands. Speak to this. I did say I believe only the most responsible should hold power by any means. Forgive this digression. Julius always spoke of your beauty but I saw you at his villa. I thought perhaps success on his part but yet say I already know it myself. You are radiance incarnate. Nothing so complex. Mark Antony any I am a goddess and a Queen I simply know it to be true and so it is so it is so began. The partnership of Antony and Cleopatra Patra both in Love and War will return to our story in just a moment and now let's continue the story In December forty BC. Cleopatra gave birth to twins from Antony Alexander Helius the second in Cleopatra. Go Patrick Salim. The second while the two parted company for four years the next time Antony came to Alexandria on route for his war against the par theuns. He called halted his home and Cleopatra his wife without even annulling his marriage to Octavian Sister Octavia minor. Cleopatra had finally been able to wrangle a Roman man into her empire soon after came their third child tolmie Philadelphia's and with a few words Cleopatra destroyed the last of her our toll AMAC rivals off her command antony executed arsenault for her treasonous involvement with the siege of Alexandria. There were no more siblings to challenge her rule rule that is humorous only far from the Republic of Rome. Do I actually feel free. Calls calls itself Free Alexandria always has been says the Almighty Pharaoh. My people know what I have sacrificed for them. Of course they do my beautiful Isis and you will have to sacrifice no more together. We've created the family of a new civilisation. Tell me these plans. Let me hear them from your tips for Alexander. The lands of Armenia Media and Partha for Selene serenade perhaps Libya for little. Philadelphia's was Syria Korea Phony Shia and silly see of course all of these lands will be hours they already are but they have yet to realize if Caesar was our times. Alexsandr you and I shall be Ptolemy and what of Rome. What if that fall smelling place? You are a Roman man after all will you leave it to Octavian we. We already have our disagreements. It's only a matter of time until he turns on us. Then we will crush him too and I will give that city back to my son true. Caesar this I will do for you and the Isis and you will be above all the Queen of Kings never met a man who could match my words. It's before believe you have a few languages on me. Don't you good thing. We have all the time in the world legitimised in a way by Antony's presence Cleopatra and Cesario on rose to their highest level of recognition yet Cleopatra as Isis and sorry John as Horace Living Gods to the citizens of Egypt Cleopatra was determined to diverge from the line of Ptolemy insignificant ways creating her own dynasty honesty who hush my child. I've only come in to look on you. I'm a grown man. Mother barely twelve. My uncles uncles were dead and gone by this time in their lives. Your uncles were not. You always remember that I will leave you if my presence to Stir Ono beloved mother of course not I was not even asleep. You cannot find yourself in dreams. Nights are not restful for me mother ever since the grand ceremony with Mark Antony and your other children I feel as if there's too much for me to be thinking of. That is an admirable trait for a ruler. But you are not a full blooded one yet. Leave the worries for me for the time being. But if I'm your horace King of all civilization how can I ever sleep. It is a question I often asked myself when my father would keep me up late with my studies telling me endless tales of the bloody history of our line but that is why. I've done what I've done to end the violence of our family to make it a true family once again only from there. Do I see any peace. He's for civilization any true benevolent power. I shed blood in hopes of draining all the toxins from the world so that I may hand as you something pure and beautiful yet. You rely on Rome as your father did. Though I confide in you do not mistake it for subservience. Keep that blade from your words to not try to cut me with them. You will fail but I- excuse your perspective. It must seem that way to you. I promise my son. I am beholden to no Roman man. No Caesar or and I hope you know they all underestimate you. Everyone always does my son. They always have then. I will dream tonight. Mother of the day you stand before the burning fields of Western men and they beg you for gentle rain. Outside of Alexandria is Andrea Antony neglected relations with Rome and Octavian resulted in a final breakdown between the two final triumph hours in thirty three. BC Octavian in rallied the Roman Senate against Antony by appealing to their fear of Cleopatra and her desires to absorb the Roman state into her own by thirty one. BC Ed TV and had amassed an army with which to invade Egypt. Antony and Cleopatra prepped for Final War to fund her Army Cleopatra Dug into the long unguarded gold vaults of Alexander some decreed. This is a sign of weakness. But in Cleopatra's mind she was simply using the last of the resources left to her by her now impotent Tint ancestors. Her duty was to present day Egypt. That Summer Antony's navy sailed against Octavian off the coast of Actinium Cleopatra's. There's own fleet approached the Malay from afar my goddess spoke rises on the horizon. DO VISORS GIVE clarity. Who is burning Octavian in or Antony both sides where Roman colors and both sides take fire? The line is breaking in our direction. I believe Octavian has triumphed on this this day but Evelyn caught us. What shall we do damned food signal to him? We make a retreat. This will have have to be a ground war true. That will be achievable. I will not let Alexandria stent unguarded as that Roman ingrate rapes her shores. Turn the fleet. Antony has failed us. We're Cleopatra was no fool fool she would not be making a romantic last stand with Antony on this day not when her true love of Alexandria still remained her grasp. Her support would have been useless anyway away. The military minded of Octavian was too great Anthony's fleet broke and he too fled toward Alexandria with Octavian hot on his tail when Cleopatra tre reach her home the realization dawned this would have to be her final bastion truly accurate records breakdown here with multiple variations on the same basic a history Cleopatra along with her two handmaidens. Iris and Charmian took refuge inside of Cleopatra's giant monument to herself as Isis Day barred Lorde the doors behind them. Smart as Cleopatra realized that whichever Roman man reached her first Octavian or Antony neither would be pleased with her. At the moment it was true Antony was devastated at her abandonment but he had bigger problems when he reached dry land he could not rally his remaining troops to his cause on August first thirty. BC Anthony's army deserted him and joined up with Octavian Antony arrived at Cleopatra's figurative doorstep broken broken and alone. I know she awaits the end here. where else would she flea? She's used to fall. Her bodyguards led let me into destruction. where else could he go? Remi- any speak to me wealth boy seemingly the last true believer in Western civilization. I come with unfortunate news. She refuses to see me. Is that it. I give her an empire and she will let me rot on these part streets. I fear I fear the Pharaoh's dead. Impossible I fear she has passed from us. It is all gone gone. Can plutarch tells us that Antony then took a blade to himself in an attempted suicide. While again sources diverge plutarch's narrative continues tin us that even this could not kill Antony p lay in the street begging for death for anyone to finish the job when Cleopatra heard this still alive and well L. in her monument. She altered her plan. Perhaps a shred of love remained in her heart. Antony was brought before the still doomed Pharaoh as Octavian closed in on the city he was literally hauled up by ropes into an opening on the side of Cleopatra's monument. You you are too clever Isis Isis. Much too cool look at him. I get him water for the sake of Rome. Get me wine. The last cask belongs to you. You will not split it with me. I must keep my head for the false Caesar as I lay in the streets hurt his legions approach. I was almost thankful you're dead. Cleopatra you cannot allow him to capture you flee while you have the chance I will not leave my city to this barbarian varian. You're right about that. It'll be barbarous. He plans to parade you to the streets in a gilded cage. H He'll make you into the horror of Oliver home. He will settle for nothing less than your authored decimation. This you have heard the lips of my own soldiers before they deserted me. I thought he would go quickly Antony or better yet. Surrender yourself to the forgiveness of Octavian. We're all long past forgiveness. You know this here console Anthony Antony drink not Roman but it will do I clip outdrew leave. Children would live takes US Aryan. He has no story destiny before him. Now only a short one one if you truly care for your family Antony Antony my goddess he's gone rapid silk my goddess Octavian has breached Alexandria. What shall we do? I will see his face he will see mine. Octavian will see the woman who should have brought him low when Octavian arrived in Alexandria. He was led to Cleopatra's monument and found her and her handmaidens inside her own mausoleum. Halt fault all halt. It has been years. Never have I seen your face so close. What do you think overrated? Get to know me as your uncle did as Antony did you will come to realize that everything in life is overrated. Except for me enough. Your words are magic. No More Cleopatra the seventh fill out a tour you are now a prisoner room you sound more like an emperor by the day way better than some foolish power hungry girl. I am a giver of life. I doubt your manhood even prepared for such a task yet. Antagonize Haggen is as you please. I am stone to your fire already molded against you fitting you found me here in your grave. Oh now mm-hmm you will be coming with me room. I have your accommodations prepared. Have you heard gilded baas suited for the Queen of Kings. The people of Rome will welcome you into city limits this time with great fanfare and much Dong to be thrown. I would expect nothing better. From Romance Wants Good Fortune in your own future rule. I thank you for doing away with Antony. Saves me the trouble. His children will be taken. Care of by Octavia Avia a true mother. Not a false goddess. I I am grateful for that and Cesario Laurean the Little Caesar only a babe when I saw him last he is a strong boy. Intelligent I purge the week toll make blood I have given the world. A true leader. Do not forsake him. Yes well unfortunately. It's not good to have too many caesars bastard usurper. This is how you honor your adopted father. I- murdering his kin. I hear it is the Egyptian tradition. visit not men when God every portal in and out of here there are but three women. You should be capable enough cleopatra. I will return with your son's son's head and your magnificent prison. No you bastard. No Octavian had caught the greatest prize as of Egypt but even in victory. He made the same mistake. Many men made in dealing with Cleopatra while under guard the Romans allowed Iris and Charmian to leave and return with a basket of Figs Cleopatra of final meal in her beloved Alexandria when Octavian and his guards returned. They found the two handmaidens. It's passing into death and Cleopatra Far ahead of them for hidden in that basket was what was called at the time and ask now known as an Egyptian Cobra as she ate her final decadence Cleopatra had stretched out her arm and allowed herself to be bitten. The Queen of Kings went out on her own terms. She would would be caged by no Roman ever again. The Tragic Final Act of defiance and one that did little to save her plan legacy as Octavian promised Celerion was executed after serving the shortest reign of any soul Ptolemaic Pharaoh and the final one Egypt was absorbed by Octavian emerging empire and Western culture dominated the Middle East for years to come one has to wonder. Sometimes if Cleopatra acquired such a legendary rule without even achieving victory in her aims. How much more renown would she be? If she had overcome the Romans her battle to unify and consolidate power would have spelled out a very different kind of civilization with less division between East and West. While it's impossible to know if we would be better off. There is no denial of Cleopatra's ambition and her incredible ability to operate as a female political figure in a male dominated culture without a chance of her post Ptolemaic ideal. Cleopatra refused to be taken into the Western culture she he had long to overcome but the fact remains the ptolemies were doomed either way. Cleopatra Refuse to let their line be washed away she empowered herself and sacrificed suffice her entire life to create a new type of society. She became an ideological monument. A sign post in history marking the path forward guiding guiding the way to the future. Thanks for listening you can find more episodes of famous fates and all other park has originals for for free on spotify famous fates is a spotify exclusive. Not only to spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spot advise making easy for you. You too enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like famous fates for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream famous fades on spotify. Just open open the APP and type famous fates in the search bar remember. It's a spotify exclusive so you can only find the show right here and don't forget to follow us on facebook and instagram grant at podcast and twitter at podcast at work. We'll see you next time. And if you want to hear more episodes like this subscribe to famous fates available exclusively on spotify.
Historian: Woke Politics Destroying US History & Academia | Niall Ferguson Interview
"This is the Ruben reporting according to Big Tech. I'm Dave Rubin Reminder. Everybody to subscribe to our Youtube Channel and click that notification bell for notifications. That's what the bells near for and joining me. Today is a historian and senior fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University, Neil Ferguson Welcome back to the Rubin report. It's great to be back virtually Dave I'd prefer to be back really, but hey, it's the plague year. It is the plague year you know last time you were on the show you flew in. You bolted from the airport. We talked as fast as we could for about an hour and a half, and then you bolted and left again, so must be very calming for you to be able to be at home and relaxed computer because you're a busy guy. It is very calming. I had not spent three months in one location for twenty years. And I think I had fallen victim to hypomobility and hyper globalization, where, if I wasn't on a long haul flight at least once a week I felt there was something wrong with my life, and having that all stop has been a real blessing. Not. Everybody gets to work from home I'm one of the lucky ones who can. And! This is also meant more time with my family so. I think we all may have been suffering from some kind of connecting foam. As we flew from conference to conference manically and Covid, nineteen stopped the world, and said you can get off now and for some people. It's been difficult for me. It's been. Literally Coming Home but also metaphorically because I'm back to the kind of life. I had when I was a young academic teaching Oxford with little kids, and that was my life, I read books I, wrote books, and I read stories at night and I'm back to. That is great. Well as most of my audience knows, your wife is the magical amazing I'll let you add a couple of other adjectives. Ion. Hersi, Ali, and and you guys do have a toddler now. So you're looking at you enjoying home life. You're supposed to be a steady academic and you're enjoying life. Well we have? We have two sons. Actually I'll allowed the adjectives. Shall I Dave? Brave beautiful and brilliant. Those are the three things that describe my life and She's also a wonderful mother and our two sons. One of whom is eight the others to? are a constant source of of joy to us at an I. Just see much more of them, which is which is fascinating I. Thought homeschooling was an oxymoron. And it turns out actually to work quite well. At least with some kids Thomas who's eight has been. He's really been in some ways more engaged because he's had greater freedom to explore and I've been fascinated to watch him. Become a little auto dayaks and delve deeply into into stem subjects, so yeah, there's all sorts of wonderful things that have have come out of twenty twenty, which is paradoxical because it's a horrible year for so many people. Well stem subjects I thought stem subjects were all racist and patriarchal and part of the oppressive machinery. That is the West or something like that. You're teaching stem subjects eight year old. Well. He's teaching them to himself, remember. I'm from science background. My mother is a physicist and so's my sister. I'm the black sheep of the family who wandered off into the dangerous terrain of the humanities and social sciences, but Thomas is. A young man with clear vision I think he's identified that the humanities and social sciences are no longer the places to be, and he's been studying microbiology with considerable zeal, entirely at his own initiative Thomas also had the best insights about twenty twenty that I've heard from anybody. He said Dad there to pandemics this year. I said really what what's the other one as well there's there's obviously covid nineteen, but there's another pandemic which is more contagious, and it's called woke kid nineteen, and you can catch whoa kid nineteen from the Internet, so it's more dangerous than covid nineteen I think there's wisdom amongst the eight-year-olds Dave. They give me hope. Most people make up what their eight year olds. You're saying, but I actually believe that you're an ion. Offspring said that. A lot of these a lot of the twitter warriors. Pretending. It's only one of his many insights into the strange time I I do think his generation's going to surprise people if he and his friends are anything to go by. There's a kind of healthy skepticism sort of south park quality to this generation. They are very different in their outlook as far as I can see from admittedly small sample from the the generation Z.. Twentysomethings who are currently in various stages of. Of anxiety and. and woke nece so I I have a suggestion which I'm sure it's impossible to to do more than an then speculated bows. 'CAUSE WE CAn't poll eight-year-olds, but I think generation t, the kids who came of age during the trump presidency are going to have very different outlooks partly because I think they've been slightly force-fed. Woke ideas. At school and they do react like Carmen and Kyle in the kids from South Park. Which I find quite encouraging, because at eight I was. A kind of instinctive conservative I think most eight year olds. Are you kind of against change? Even when your parents changed the wallpaper in the living room, you're kind of against it and I noticed it certain familiar symptoms in in Thomas I hope it doesn't all go away when he becomes a teenager that be will. Well? He's GonNa have to go through a phase I. I hate to tell you that's that's how it works. Well, not necessarily because in Britain, we have boarding schools and you just send away. From the minute they become teenagers. Eight teaches instead of us. It works remarkably well. Actually pretty clever all right, so we're going to do something a little bit different than I would normally do. If I was to have you on I want to use the time with you. To sort of celebrate America and celebrate freedom. This is going to be our July fourth special. We're taping it a little bit before July fourth. But because you have an interesting immigration story, your wife has an interesting immigration story you are a historian and and a proud American I. Thought you were the right guy to talk to about this, but before we fully get into that am I correct. You've written fourteen books. Is that right? Is it know. Yeah I think so yeah. That's a lot of books I. don't even have a question to ask. Just wanted to say it because it's an awful lot of books and as a guy that just wrote one. I just feel like you deserve some credit on that. Well the only consolation is I think that each one is easier than the one before so the first one is the hard one. I'd see it's not like. It's an art writing books more like a building cabinets. It's a sort of craft and once you've done it once. The second one is distinctly easier. That's that's the good news. There are people more prolific than I am, and indeed one of my heroes the. Novelist John Buchan regarded it as a kind of wasted year if he hadn't written the book whereas I think my batting averages a book every two a half years, or so so I mean I I'm not exceptionally prolific, but I did use to look around certain universities where I've worked and marvel at how few book some of my colleagues were able to write. I don't what they were doing. The rest of the time I live to right and reading and writing of the two things that I I do the greatest facility. The thinking in the middle is difficult, but you do the reading, and then the heart is the thinking once you've figured it out. The writing is a relatively straightforward part of the job. All right so between the personal story, the writing and a little bit of thinking. Let's let's talk about freedom so I. I just thought. Telling a bit about your own personal immigration, story would be Kinda interesting. You wrote a blog about it awhile back and I think that might be a nice way to set this whole conversation up. Well, I've been working in the united. States since around two thousand and two. I was transatlantic for awhile going back and forward very regularly, and it took a while before I realized that when I was landing Boston Logan that felt more like coming home. Then landing at Heathrow that was kind of gradual process. I decided to come to the United States partly out of a sense that the action was here in my field. I was writing a lot of financial history I'd written history of the Rothschilds, the English by and large like their historians to do kings and Queens prime. Ministers Bankers New York County got what I was doing more than than London did. And I was kind of toying with the idea of a a move to New York University when nine eleven happens now Scotts have a propensity to march towards the sound of gunfire and I was so. pissed at the terrorists for attacking new. York and so determined that they shouldn't in any way. Derail my plan that. In fact almost immediately after the nine attacks I I set Nyu, look I'm open to an offer if you're interested in they more or less faxed one back the next day, so I resigned from Oxford and moved to. nyu shortly after nine eleven and spent two years in New, York everybody should live in New York for at least a couple of years. And then moved to Harvard. So that was the sort of beginning of an American journey. that that was it's election captivating. We went as you recall very quickly from the terrorist attacks to the Iraq war and debates about American Empire which dominated the administration of George. W Bush now I just written a book about the British Empire, so it was natural to start thinking about those contemporary American issues, but as I said in that time I was transatlantic I was very much. The British's story in in the United States sort of. Of a stock figure it was only gradually that I began to realize that my future was in the United States, and that if I was going to live here and work here and not be a transatlantic bird of passage then I should really go from being a green card holder to to becoming a citizen and I did that almost exactly two years ago. I'm an I just want to stress. I'm a legal immigrant so I jumped through the various hoops. You need to jump through held a bunch of visas and then. became a citizen, and it seemed to many of European contemporaries like a crazy thing to do what coming in American under the trump presidency. Are you crazy this time of? Of Disruption and my response was. Will, yeah, part of the reason for for doing that is the recognition that will not signing up for a particular president. You're signing up for the constitution. You're signing up for the ideals that the founders and as I've said often to a on I, think we immigrants have a better appreciation of American freedoms of the first principles of the republic. Better than native born Americans because we've seen some of the alternatives night for a on the alternatives were a great deal worse If you're a girl growing up in Somalia, there aren't really too many freedoms whatsoever. I grew up in in Scotland I grew up in the. in the United Kingdom, and in many ways you could say the United States is a sort of outgrowth of the British Empire, so there's a less obvious contrast, the steelers, a contrast and I'd been aware of it since I was a kid. computer systems in cars, the new normal from electronically controlled transmissions to touch screen displays dozens of sensors, but you can't fix any of these new features yourself so when something breaks, it could cost a fortune. That's why you should have. Carshield carshield has affordable protection plans that can save you thousands for a covered repair including computers GPS electronics in more, no long term, contracts or commitments, carshield gives you. You options others won't your favorite mechanic or dealership does the work and carshield takes care of the rest and twenty four seven roadside assistance and a rental car while yours is being fixed drive with confidence knowing you got coverage from America's number, one Auto Protection Company for as low as ninety nine dollars a month. Protect yourself from surprises and save thousands for a covered repair call eight hundred car six. And Mention Code Ruben or visit carshield dot com and use code. Ruben to save ten percent. That's carshield dot com code Rueben, a deductible may apply and now back to the show. Can you talk about that contrast I am interested in that just sort of from either from Scottish or British perspective to then come to America and see freedom or live freedom in a new way. Like what types of things at a granular level did you feel? Did you feel freer as a historian to talk about certain things, or was it just more about the American? Or what was it? Is a great questions. Dave a first does a little bit of romance to the United States that you mustn't lose sight of if you're growing up in Glasgow where it rains all the time. At the romance of the the Western the Romance of American Music, the Romance of American literature these are powerful, attractive forces and so. It, classic of the Nineteen Seventies, you've got a picture. spotty teenager. Neil reading Jack KEROUAC watching Clint Eastwood's and and listening to a lot of America. Music I became a jazz enthusiast as a as a teenager. You could see my double bass in the background there, and that's American music paraxylene, so I think there's a romance piece to this that one shouldn't underestimate, but there's an intellectual piece, too. I was steeped in the in the volumes of the Scottish enlightenment as a as a boy. The ideals of Adam Smith very individualistic culture of eighteenth century. Glasgow and Edinburgh, but those values had really declined in their significance in Scotland Socialism had. Caught, fire and Scotland in the early twentieth century. I had a great uncle who was a communist, many other people around us were die hard Labor supporters, a news enlightenment ideals of individual responsibility of the free market. They had already faded to the point that the Scots hated Margaret Thatcher for espousing those principles. Now what's attractive to a number? Green? Light me about the United States is that in some places not everywhere, but in some places you can still find those enlightenment values. And they're being lived there their practice that that's a very attractive feature. I think it's also true that would scotsman comes to England. He's constantly conscious is being Scottish. The English obsessed with class. The Way Americans are obsessed with race. Everything is about class in England. And the question is all was well. Which school did you go to really? And can you just do something about that funny accents? Of Yours? So I never really felt holy. Roman. England though I lived for many years there oxidant Cambridge and and felt much more home. As soon as I arrived in the United States that the English. Believe in effortless superiority. They think you should sort of be bone. superior Americans believe in work, and they don't begrudge success, and so if you're a kind of ambitious hardworking Scotsman, this is a more natural habitat for you. The England, so for all those reasons, it didn't take long to feel a home in the United States perhaps more home than ever Felton in an England this quite a lot of Scottish in the kind of the foundations of this country, and when Alexander Hamilton suddenly became a household name. Thanks to Lin. Manuel Miranda's musical. That was that was nice because he'd been Kinda hero long before he became famous again in our family. My Mother's name is Hamilton. The Scott Love to say they invented the modern world, and so naturally that. That includes inventing the United States, or at least it's. It's fiscal system. So for the whole bunch of reasons. This country was always powerfully attractive to me. I hitchhiked across America, before I went up to university at age seventeen I actually reenacted jet Karak's on the road with considerable fidelity to the original, so yeah, the American dream has come in many forms for me, and and that's I think ultimately y. becoming a citizen was exciting the whole process was exciting, even although it had its. It's surreal side to it. Did you notice a difference on the academic side. When you were with intellectuals, a European intellectuals would perhaps talk about something versus the way Americans, date, or maybe a different focus or anything like that. Well I think there's a disappointment which I need to admit to. came. To the United States believing that American universities where the places where. The biggest insulates had the biggest arguments and that was part of the appeal of Harvard I. I. Admit the was the sense that Oxford and Cambridge had been the great universities of of the nineteenth and twentieth century, but now in the twenty first century really wanted to be a Harvard and I i. think over time it was a slow process. I became disillusioned with the American Academy. And I found that it was becoming less and less hospitable to the kind of rambunctious. Free inquiry that motivates me. A now I've reached the point where I look back nostalgically on the Oxford of the nineteen eighties, where there was simply no question of of your free speech, being circumscribes on the country in the nineteen eighties. We kinda find ourselves constantly pushing the boundaries of what could be said as undergraduates we find. Our professors were intellectually. An extraordinarily diverse punch there were the die hard marxists, the kind of Eric Hobsbawm types, and then there were the high Tories the Jeremy Cancers. And? It was tremendously enriching experience academic life in the United States especially in the last I'll say five years as Jonathan hate and others of of noted, has really really been damaged by a culture of what used to be called political correctness, but I. Don't think that quite captures is of fundamental intolerance. Of a deep ill liberalism, a deep Stasi to free debate and free inquiry that is is killing the great institutions of American academia, so yeah I mean. I I'm as proud as could be of being an American, but I'm I'm at the same time depressed a by some of the trends that I see in the country today because they seem so at odds with the first principles of of American Life. 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Is it weird for you to see this spread across the world at the same time because last year when I was at Oxford, and I got to speak at Oxford Union which I still it sort of feels like a dream that I even got to speak there, but just being there and being around the hundreds of years of history and walking around, and you feel this this thing that. That that you guys have that. We have much less of obviously because of the breadth of history, you feel this this generation after generation of caring about knowledge and history, and all of these things, and even just in the last couple of days I've seen these articles that Oxford there are professors pushing to have more lenient grades for students of color, and just the rest of the sort of. What I would call intellectual rot that we've seen across these these schools It must be particularly painful for you to see. It happened at a place like Oxford. I. Think so although I sometimes get the sense that that it's not that deep the rotten in Oxford for example I was very pleased that the vice chancellor Lewis, Richardson and other leaders of the university dismissed again the coals to tear down a statue of Cecil. Rhodes, that that stands. In Oriel College. Cambridge I think has been rather more inclined to appease These forces of ICONOCLASM IT IS ICONOCLASM. the tearing down of statues and I I know that I'm a conservative when I see statues being torn down, and the little part of me winces doesn't really much master who the statue is I prefer stretches to be built. And and I would as has held the line there thus far, but as is always the case. There are elements within any academic society that. Let's see opportunities in the ideologies of of work nervous see ways in which they can advance their own careers by championing these outlandish in an illiberal ideas, the great danger is the it becomes a norm that university should be intellectually homogeneous that that we should pursue every kind of diversity except intellectual and ideological diversity and and I worry that eventually what what has been happening at American universities will overcome the healthier forces in Oxford and Cambridge. That's not to say that could. We couldn't do more these universities. to make them attractive to appealing to. People from minority communities, and from the white working class, which is notably underrepresented at these places, but the mistake that's always made in these debates is to think that the problem lies with universities rather than with the systems of education that simply discourage students or make them unable to apply to elite institutions I've always said I believe passionately in educational opportunity and the social mobility that it creates. My parents were the first in their families to go to university and. See in the united. States and the UK are failing schools that don't allow talented young people whether they're from minority communities all from the working class to get anywhere close to apply to universities. That's what we need to fix. And there are lots of ways of doing it, but one doesn't hear those discussed. So I know we could spend eight hours dissecting woke me and the rest of it, but I wanNA shift from it a little bit but I just have one other question on the woke thing since we've treaded into those waters. As as a conservative academic, you were obviously. We talked about a little bit about this last time. On the outside of what most sort of academic circles, sort of think is acceptable, even even historical. In History Department Do you think that conservatives have a better? Against, WHOA kness then liberals so for example John Hate who I've had on the show and and many of the other academics that you know that that I've talked to that come from the liberal side. I sense that they although they're making good arguments I don't think they have good defenses against this because of the sort of openness of liberalism that it's being used against itself, and I do sense that conservatism as a worldview. Or as a philosophical lens does have some protections that liberalism doesn't. Do you agree with that. Well. It's true that that we wouldn't be in this situation if it hadn't been for Liberal Professors Giving jobs to progressive professes who then gave jobs to Marxists and Cultural Marxists I mean conservative academic conservative professors. These are becoming oxymorons because there are so few. Conservatives left in the American Academy I mean that the figures are clear. It's not like this is an old problem that we've always had overtime. The ratio of registered Democrats to Republicans has risen steadily to the point that you can't calculated in some departments because there are zero Republicans and I think that that trend broad lease explicable because liberals felt that they should hire. People to the left of them, underestimating the extent to which those people woods at fundamentally differ on the principles of. Say the project of historical scholarship. It is not the goal of our history department to impose on the past the ideals of of the Progressives of twenty twenty. That's the ultimate condescension of the past. Conservatives have understood Besser I think the dangers and the tragedy has been that conservatives have been poorly organized I mean extinction of conservatives in. Say. History departments isn't just the fault of Liberals Hiring Progressives. It's also the the Conservatives did poorly. One came to the most basic organization that has to happen in academia. The patronage networks like getting your students into good positions. I don't think conservatives were very good at that. My conservative mentors were wonderful. Intellectuals be polite, Norman Stone but Norman would not be remembered I think the his his organizational skills for his writing certainly but definitely not for his his deafness academic. So it's partly I think because concerns relative busy writing books, perhaps occasionally drinking bottles of wine, and not working hard enough that the committee stages to make sure that the right candidates got hired. It's interesting and I. Think it's this that right? There almost explains everything happening in the world right now that we let all these kids out after watching academia sorta crumble, and and here we are, but but shifting from that from from a historian's perspective. What do you think that the average American? Should know about the history of America that we don't know or that. We under appreciate because we seem to live in a time where we're. We're erasing our own history and we're taking down monuments and we're you know destroying. The names of people were flawed, but that were just people in their time. What I think the the challenge here is a the history is not It's not monochrome out the history of any great society or State. Can't be told as a eulogy, nor nor as a kind of criminal indictments and the good historian. Of the United, states offer that Massa of the United Kingdom acknowledges that there are debits as well as credits that there's there's shadow those doc sides to the story as well as bright sides, and this is a challenge that I didn't think was difficult. When I was writing early in my career, I wrote history of the British Empire which included a chapter on the American Revolution, and the the book sets out very plainly, the the many stains on the history of the British empire, including of course, the the central role of slavery in the in the southern. Colonies that became the southern states of the United States. But the points of that book I'd make the same argument about the history of the United States. Is that the benefits? I weighed the costs that the successes were more important ultimately than the failures. The project that the New York Times was given Pulitzer four this year of recasting the history of the United States. In terms of slavery as the primary narrative, the sixty nine nine project seems to me just to be fundamentally historically wrong. It's a distortion. This isn't to say that slavery. Didn't matter doesn't mean it's not important. It's just that if you were to try to explain the significance of the United States to visiting Martian. You wouldn't start with slavery because that wasn't really an especially unique feature of the United States that was slavery lasted much longer in Brazil There were slavery and it was far harsher in the Caribbean. Colonies of Britain and other European states, so what's the defining characteristic? What's the thing that makes the United? States distinctive. It's not slavery. Anymore than if you looked at Western civilization broadly. It would be true to say that imperialism's the defining characteristic everybody did empire. Just a slavery goes way back before Sixteen nineteen always ancient times, and by the way still exists, there is still slavery. There are slave markets. Where people are sold, there are slave economies which rely on slave labor today, so can't really be true to say that the interesting thing the thing really need to know about the united. States is slavery, but the interesting thing about the united. States is that it represented an experiment in governance. A radical experiment based on ideas from the enlightenment and earlier ideas from the processing reformation. It's fair to say and and this produce an extraordinary constitution which has stood up to all the stresses and strains. Of, of history since the late eighteenth century and understanding that peculiar constitution that very distinctive document with its separation of powers, and it's careful. Preservations of individually bats should be your top priority if you're studying American history, not to the exclusion of the bad stuff. Plenty of bad stuff that we need to study, but I don't think we should be teaching young. Americans from Howard Zinn People's history of the United States, in which the negatives a constantly emphasized over the positives that just seems to miss the points of the American story completely. Are, you worried that the extraordinary pressure that we're facing right now between pandemic between riots and protests between. Polarization that really is off the charts and then throw in social media, which is just gas on the flame. Are you worried that those pressures could? That project in a way that it hasn't been snapped before. Or certainly in the last hundred years, let's say. They, let me give you a somewhat surprising answer that question I'd be worried if we weren't worried. One of the things about this country that's very distinctive is the were always worried that the republic's going to end We're always Kinda friesinger by. The coming tyranny the impending civil war, and thus far there's been one civil war and no dictatorships. And, that's kind of encouraging. I think that's partly because we worry about this and I think it's a healthy feature of American life, also to expect decline people to be predicting the decline of the United States throughout my life. It was a preoccupation of Henry Singer whose biography I'm in the midst of of racing in the nineteen seventies. It seems as if the United States was being torn apart by Vietnam torn apart by its. Racial divisions torn apart by a president who had violated his his oath of office. All of that out. We've seen before and I. I think it's part of the way the United States works. That were always expecting the disintegration of the Republican, the descent into civil war and I I think we'll have to start be nervous if we stop worrying about that stuff, but as low as we have mild old friend Andrew Sullivan so frightful about the coming trump tyranny that he doesn't quite spot the tyranny of the left until it's right up behind him. I mean that that's kind of the predicament that I think in lots of. Liberals and conservatives find themselves in that they were so indignant dismayed by trump back in two thousand sixteen that they slightly underestimated the the robber, more operationally, worrying a tyrannical tendencies of the radical left. So. Yeah, I, think we. We should keep worrying about the stuff as low as we're worrying about. It will probably be okay. Yeah. Does it also strike you as? As odd or maybe obvious relative to social media that when something happens here that it suddenly happens everywhere I mean we've all seen the videos. Now of of literally police officers in London being hunted down by mobs that has nothing to do in any concrete sense with what happened to George Floyd, and yet it seems like if there's an incident here, it's now exported everywhere. I think future historians will will wonder why it was that in the midst of a pandemic, which is far from over, Americans decided to have a debate about a police violence towards African Americans, not not to say that that's not an important issue to think about it, but it seems an odd time to have that debate into stock debates about defunding the police when we should really be wondering what went wrong with the Department of Health and Human Services and CDC when they ought to have taken far better and earlier action to. Contain the contagion, there's something strange. It's a non sequitur that in the midst of this massive public health crisis which has killed nearly under twenty thousand Americans, and will probably kill another Andre Twenty thousand before the end of the year. We're having this this debate, but the second point I'd make is that at the Internet has created a new kind of contagion as I said earlier quasi my son, there are two pandemics and the second pandemic in fact predates the merger of of George Floyd because it's a pandemic of protest that you could actually see in Hong Kong in Santiago in Barcelona in cities like Beirut last year. And what is interesting to me is that the mode of protest is consistently the same? The content varies from place to place, but this quality of protests to go viral styles of protests to be copied from Hong Kong. To Minneapolis is really interesting. Historically, the police, a better communications than demonstrations for most of the second half of the Twentieth Century that the police had walkie talkies in the demonstrators were lucky if they had megaphones, but the smartphone is changed that and it's allowed protesters to to really organize these settlers networks with there is no obvious leader, and actually have superior comes to the police, so I think it's interesting about the great eruption of protest that we've seen. In the last month in the United, states. I. Is that actually it's in terms of its form quite a close copy of the Hong Kong protests of last year. It's just that the contents difference and I think you can keep these sorts of protests waves going as long as people of viral video as well as sort of tips and organizing a protest that they can simply download and apply to their in context that I think is the really interesting feature. It's not the the content of the protests that the same as in previous waves of revolution here it's just the form of protests. That's the same. The content varies from place to place. Yeah. It's interesting, so you're saying you're not worried because we worry and then on the other hand there is this other pathogen or virus, or whatever you WANNA call it. That really does make this something that we've just never dealt with before. I think we've dealt with the revolution recode before it's just the revolutionary cried didn't have smartphones before I was fascinated by the way in which the Hong Kong protesters outsmarted the police there last year partly by constantly changing the form of the protests partly by not having leaders that you could just round up partly by shifting away from violence when violence was eighteen local people and I think we saw something of that happen because in June there was a period early on when the protests quite violence and was looting, and that actually was quite unhelpful to the protesters calls. And then you saw a shift in the style of protest in many in many places, so this shape shifting quality of. Of of the of the crowd with smartphones is an interesting thing to observe. I don't think it's necessarily a disastrous phenomenom. Because in some contexts, these protests achieve successful outcomes crowds on always bad the the even occasions when you can justify pulling down a statue, think New York Seventeen, seventy six, but my my sense is that on the specific issue that is being addressed in the United States today, which has to do with changing the way the police operate. There's a big disconnect between what is said by protesters and and indeed by black lives matter and what we know from from good social signs, the real the real problem is, and I do think it's difficult for crowd. To, read Social Science and arrive at actionable policy recommendations that that tends not tap. Is that the biggest danger that we have going right now that there's a certain set of people that it doesn't matter what the social science says. It doesn't matter what the facts say that their ideology overrides all of that, so this sort of goes back to what I was saying about our liberal academic friends. It's like you guys can make sound arguments all day long. That's that's Great I. Love it I'll do it all day with you, but that doesn't actually address the problem because there's something else going on here. That can't be rationalized out of. Rights I think you know the case of Ronin far illustrates many of predicaments that we find ourselves in today Rowlands who who wrote some pioneering papers as a Harvard. Economist, in two, thousand, sixteen, published an extraordinary important study showing that. While the police did disproportionately shove potion otherwise manhandle African Americans compared with white suspects. They did not disproportionately shoot. A African Americans. And that finding that was an extremely important one. Since the core of black lives, matter was claim that the police disproportionately use lethal violence against people and it's. Not to be true, but what came of Ronin after that publication? He knew that would be blow back in there was but what actually happened was not at all what he or I or his friends had expected, what happened was that he was accused of sexual harassment S- by a former employee white incidentally, and then found himself sucked into a title nine. Investigation at Harvard which I think was actually a grave miscarriage of justice and it's hard to avoid. The suspicion that if Romans research had arrived and more politically correct conclusions that were more compatible with progressive narratives. Perhaps that might not have happened. I certainly think there's something to be ask some hard questions to be asked about why an African American professor who started life in the wrong side of the tracks in Texas whose first hand experience has had first-hand experience of the police brutality why he should have ended up being treated in this way by mostly white progressive administrators at at the country's most. Well known an eminent university. It's something that's been on my mind for. Some time now since the case against him was brault, an I sense that ultimately we won't really be able to arrive at a serious discussion of these issues data based and also based on personal experience as long as Roldan's been canceled in the name of me, too. So in a weird way. Do you need the institutions to crumble? So that something better can happen like it seems like we're sort of just in a slow crumble phase right now. There's you know there doesn't seem to be any great institution whether it's Harvard or the New York Times or a series of other things that we sort of all looked to as the guardians of the republic. They're all sort of crumbling. Do you think they have to crumble to to reset or do you think they can actually? Just Ri put together. Just put together the pieces again. Well I think one of the lessons of American history. Is that at its best the United States creates new institutions rather than just gives the old ones makeovers. I think one of the sad features of our time is that? The great plutocrats of our gilded age, if not created new universities as their predecessors did in the late nineteenth century but simply given money to the existing institutions in particular to institutions that already have tons of money and my recommendation to T- today's. Rubber Barons, or if you WANNA put politely. Titans of Silicon Valley and Wall Street is Just remember the examples of the Carnegie's and some innovation here build some new institutions. You don't like what's happening. Harvard or Yale or Stanford. There's nothing to stop you creating a new institution because that's the American way. What talk feel nurses, the Great French? Political theorist Alexis de Tocqueville. When he came to the United States before writing his great book democracy in America was that Americans then did not expect the government to solve their problems at they they they did it through association life, and for me the most striking feature of this American story is this readiness for people at the local level to deal with problems locally. To Build civic institutions locally and not to expect the federal government, or for that Matter Harbor The New York Times to to come up with solutions so I desperately feel a need for new institutions are not only at the level of colleges I think we need new schools There's been some innovation that direction in the charter school movement, but it still radio drop in the bucket of what needs to happen to improve American secondary education, which is the real weakness that this this country's is burdened with so I think we just need to remind ourselves that in its. Its, original design, the United States was supposed to be a decentralized with be small government see vibrant association, life and religious life, and crucially a set of constant formation of new institutions that that was what you did. If you'd been successful if you had the American capitalist dream giving back involved more than just a new building at Harvard with your name on giving back, meant a new university something that hadn't existed before. That's what we seem to have lost I'm really struck by that lack of new institutions as one of the pathologies one of the signs of our recent degeneration. So. You don't think that the Harvard endowment is worth. What forty billion dollars you don't. You don't think they need a couple more bucks. Well. Bobby for me to advise America's philanthropists where they put their money, but if they applied the kind of. Due Diligence standards that they apply when they're making investments to their philanthropy, then I think they might, they might at least think twice because the return of an investment that you get from donating to ready established institution just called be that high. I mean what real marginal impact does a does. A million dollars make to Harvard whereas if you if you. You were to use the money to create something new. The return on investment would eventually be far higher so I. I think there's a need for for new institutions I think it would help revitalize just as we should have new statues if you don't like the old ones. Why don't build some new statues rather than wasting your energies on on vandalism? One of my favorites, sculptors sandy start who's a great opponents of clouds and built to wonderful trade, two statues in Edinburgh the Scottish capital one is. Of David Human the other of Adam Smith, that beautiful statues they stand in the Royal Mile, tourists assume they've been there for at least one hundred years. Barely ten years old and I think Sandy stoddart could be well employed in the United States creating some beautiful new statues to river. It is that we think should be the heroes of our time that would be a far better employments of public energy than than the kind of vandalism that we see these days. So since this is our July fourth week show and I've got a noted historian on Gimme Gimme a little American history that may be the average person watching this. Give me something an anecdote, a story a moment that that the average person watching this maybe doesn't know that much about that they should know. Is there something that sticks out to you as? More people should know about that story that moment. Well I suspect. An crowded field I b bone to to choose. One of those episodes that really paved the way. For the United States to become. Not just a hugely successful republic more successful than any previous republic. But a great power even a superpower. An the temptation for republics historically has always been at a certain point for the the temptations PA to steer the Republic to tyranny. Very nearly happens during Harry Truman's presidency at the time of the Korean War. When a horrific figure? Douglas mccarthur a quarrelled with Truman about the direction of the Korean War, Macarthur actually was in favor of dropping atomic bombs on China. To end the war and It came to a clash that to another republic at might have been fatal think of the face of the Roman Republic, which ultimately became an empire as at the mighty figure of of Augustus at ultimately at suck the life out of the institutions of the republic. But I think the the showdown that happened then between Truman and Macarthur. Truman's successful assertion of the primacy of the civilian authority is hugely important moments in American, history, Truman was a great presidents in a whole range of of ways. He is best known for the famous line the buck stops. But it stopped there in in a very important way when Truman asserted the primacy of the presidency against charismatic. Military figure who. When he returned to the United States at a ticker tape parade in New York you watch the scenes of Macarthur's return at that time of crisis? When it seemed, he might make presidential bid himself. You realize that the United States was teetering on the brink of a Roman. Outcome, but pulled Mac and I I want to emphasize episode, which isn't well known because you should always keep in mind. The history of what hasn't happened. What didn't happen even if it nearly did you have to keep alive in your mind all the Times that this republic mites of have fallen from the the path of democracy and the rule of law and undermined yourself when you're feeding down, some people occasionally do feel done contemplating our politics. That American democracy has never been a fairy story when Charles Dickens came to the United States in the nineteenth century, he was polled. By the viciousness of American Politics Bites banality by the rule of money by the corrupt press we shouldn't tell ourselves. There's some golden age in the past that we've some high lapsed from I. think that's very common. Failing that Americans have there was telling themselves. That was so much better than those good old days. Pick a decade the fifties the eighties, but I don't think that's the right way to think about American history, I think it's better to realize that the Republican experiment, the experiment with this particular constitution was always going to be fraught with peril that the founding fathers knew that somebody like Donald. Donald Trump would become president at some point. That was why they designed the Constitution the way they did Alexander. Hamilton's Berry explicit about that in the federalist papers and elsewhere so I. Think if as an immigrant my advice. Americans is don't have this fantasy America that you keep feet failing to live up to that. You feel you've somehow missed because it never existed. There's never been that fantasy America. There's always been in America teetering on the brink with the separation of powers, threatening at times to collapse, and as I've said with the temptations of empire, periodically coming along and stay to the republic. Come home. Be Rome. Thus, far, we've always rightly said No. You're hopeful my friend. Oh. Yeah, that's your parents are. That's why we come here over for all that Americans love to hate themselves. This is still the number one destination for people who say they would like to leave the country of their birth, and it seems unlikely to me that that would be the case if this really was the Specif- of racism that it's so often described by a described as by Progressives Right I love the the open borders crowd. We'll also tell you that we're an evil racist. Patriarchal Society and yet everyone apparently should come here to share in the harder. IT IS A. It is a paradox. One thing that covid nineteen as done. has been to remind everybody that borders matter, and the health and safety of citizens in fact, depend on secure borders where people coming even own nears, visitors can be. Monitored not that I think is one of important, sir, an unexpected consequences of the pandemic that that isn't widely recognized ultimately at president trump's arguments back in two thousand sixteen included the following the orders really mattered, and shouldn't be porous and that China was a problem and a threat to our national security. Covered by Tina's illustrated both those points pretty well. And here we are dare I ask historian to make some political predictions. I, the only point of studying history is to understand the president and plausible futures besser. Sorry! GonNa, punt that one I mean. What do you think's GonNa Happen over? If you had to just sort of generally paint the next couple months Where do you think we're at? I think what's going to happen is what happened in twenty sixteen at opinion, polls an approval ratings will consistently predict a Democratic victory and the media and the people who work on on American politics will replicate the mistakes that they made in two thousand sixteen by looking at them closely at at polls. And prediction markets, and and then they will get a very very big surprise because I sense from revealed preferences as opposed to stated preferences that the country is far from convinced that it should down the road of open borders or defunding the police, or a green new deal and more they hear of those radical ideas from Democrats. The more upheaval, they see in the streets of American cities. The more they quietly make mental notes two votes two votes Republican on November the third. Of course I could find myself very badly wrong. Anybody who makes a prediction about American. Election in the summer is is running the risk of of engaging kind of astrology, but let me give you a data point. Dave It's very interesting. I've heard it from many different quarters. Many people have bought firearms. In Twenty, twenty in the luxury, looking at one of them a non. You're looking at one of them to Dave. Isn't a a month of March alone the monthly background checks. Were, double a. what happened on average in nineteen now I'm going to call the revealed preference. I'm going to suggest. Months of May and June May. Also see a elevated purchases. One of the most sure a predictors over Republican votes in two thousand sixteen was if a household possessed a firearm. Households without farms overwhelmingly voted Democrat houses with arms overwhelmingly voted Republican. I'm just saying that there are sources of data other than opinion polls that it would be prudent to look at at a time when people have all kinds of incentives, not to be quite straight with pollsters revealed preferences of the things. To look at. My sense is that the mood of the country is not being well understood by the New York. Times or The Washington. Post or CNN the moment I. Don't think it's been well understood a toll, my nightmare, though to to take another stab at prediction is we end up with a result like a two thousand? We end up with a tie. I worry that that Joe Biden's. Candidate, DONALD TRUMP is in a recession having not handled covid nineteen brilliantly. They're both week and in that scenario. You could imagine a two thousand like result, but with multiple states having their results contested because of controversies around. A postal votes in and that would be the nightmare scenario for the United States because it would not be resolved as quickly as it was at, nor would the result be accepted by the losing side as quickly as it was in two thousand so when I look into the crystal ball. I, do find myself hoping for a decisive results because the time that sort I think we'd plunges into weeks, possibly months of strife, and it would be the perfect opportunity for America's enemies to make any move that they might have been considering. All right. We can't end on this because you've actually been quite. Throughout and a firm belief in America, so you gotTA. Bring me home on. something. Positive Gimme Gimme something here to bring it all together. Well I, think as I said, worrying about this stuff is probably the best way to prepare for it and divert a disaster there still time actually to make sure that we don't have multiple contested results from states. As we speak not yet July fourth up in the same way looking back that we can learn from what went wrong. In this country in January and February remember the being questioned for twenty twenty is not did president trump get covid nineteen wrong? The real question is wide. The Department of Health and Human Services, which has an assistant secretary for preparedness. Get it wrong. Why did What we sometimes called the deep state fail so disastrously to get this right despite on paper, having multiple plans for pandemic preparedness and biodefense so I think we have the chance now to start learning from mistakes that were made back in January when we could have averted. This, great economic disaster, we just by learning from the Taiwanese in the south, Koreans did. We still think have the ability I think we've lost our minds that we've lost the ability to learn from all mistakes governance, and we should learn from what went wrong in that pandemic, just as we should learn from what went wrong at in some recent elections I mean. Think of some of the primary results that descended into farce. We've gotTa make sure by worrying about this issue that we don't have a an Iowa caucus writ large on November, the third you can imagine you understand the incident as well as any public intellectual Dave. You can imagine the chaos of conspiracy theories. We could be confronting on November the fourth if there is uncertainty, so let's do what. What Americans have long been famous for. Here's a problem. Let's fix it with the candy spirit. That's what Europeans used to say. Distinguished Americans from everybody else. Let's fix the problems that have revealed themselves in our pandemic preparedness and in our electoral system. We've just got time to do it and it will be. I think the product expression of the American way if we fix it just in time.
S5: Love: Famous Fates: Cleopatra
"Her death is memorialized in Shakespeare's Antony and Cleopatra but the empress of the Niles Life held an equal caliber of drama. So if you enjoyed this episode on Cleopatra You should check out the famous fates podcast where you can discover the stories of incredible people whose grandiose lives were matched only by their shocking demise. Follow famous fates free on spotify in anywhere you listen to podcasts. How will I know? It's Alexandria on the horizon. You will feel it in your heart. You will feel that God in your soul rise up show. They were welcome as we return with the forces of Rome at our back. Alexandria's no home to their kind. Bernice will not be pleased. The pleasure of your older sister is not my primary concern but she is. Our family is such a contingent truly necessary. Clear your mind of such youthful fancy. We're of the PTOLEMAIC line. We are no family we are battleground. Of God's we guide beautiful Egypt with only one another as competitors. There is no Rome. There is no other realm as far as we must concern ourselves. The fate of Egypt is in our hands and free must bloody our own to keep it safe and saddens me. Their niece was always kind to me as a child. At the moment you began to walk to speak to learn. You became the enemy. Cleopatra we cannot trust our own blood only judge them and sometimes find them lacking God king of Egypt. Hail loose cabanillas. Do you ride well very well. My Menu into experience the majesty about eggs Andrea and reclaim it in your rightful name and your Roman men will always find a home there as long as my true line rules. Where are your sons should not return to her carriage. The dust cannot be good for complexion. How dare you? The girl must learn the ways of war. Louis Woods sounds like madness to my ears but who am I to question a God? Do you know what the name Cleopatra Means Noble Cabanas. Only that many of you women are it. It means the glory of the father when I was born. A sliver of my father's soul passed into mind. It made me into the dodd. Who Now writes before you? I urge you to reign in your beast for the ride ahead of us. Is that a front and a bad omen for your future. Alexandria telling me a great pharaoh. Of course I meant no disrespect. Alexandria will soon be yours again right. Well God King and you as well Cleopatra. Laurie of the father indeed. Hi I'm Vanessa. Richardson and I'm Corduroy. Welcome to famous fates park. Cast original exclusive spotify each week. We'll release five. Fresh episodes centered around a common theme such as Hollywood icons influential women or music legends in each episode. We'll take a close look at the remarkable life of a different person with the help of voice. Actors will dramatize their incredible lives reimagining their greatest and weakest moments then. We'll examine their controversial deaths. Some deaths came too soon. Some remains shrouded in mystery and some change the world forever today recovering Cleopatra the seventh feel Potter empress of the Nile. Her death is memorialized in Shakespeare's Antony and Cleopatra but her life held an equal caliber of drama. You can find episodes of famous fates and all other podcast originals for free on spotify to stream famous fates for free on spotify just open the APP and type famous fates in the search bar famous fates is a spotify exclusive so you can only find it on spotify at par cast grateful for you hard listeners. You us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at par cast and twitter at podcast network now back to the life of Cleopatra after years of exile from Alexandria due to the interference of his daughter Baronies Ptolemy the twelfth and Cleopatra Returned Home in fifty five BC. But before we return with them. Let's backtrack a little further because to truly understand the story of Egypt's last Ptolemaic Pharaoh. It's best to understand the strange world of the PTOLEMAIC LINE in its entirety. It all began with Alexander the great the legendary Macedonian leader who conquered much of the known world by three hundred twenty three B C upon his first visit to Egypt. He founded the city of Alexandria as his promised. Land only to die soon afterward has his empire fractured at the seams. One of Alexander's greatest generals took charge of Alexandria Ptolemy the first seeing his chance and taking it. He defended Egypt from outside invaders and took up the mantle of the Egyptian Pharaoh. This was an interesting tactic. Although Ptolemy had no connection to the past pharaohs of Egypt in terms of bloodline by adopting the traditions and imagery of the role. He reclaimed it for himself. And the coming toll AMAC line. One of those traditions was in naming. Most men were called told me and most women took the name. Arsenault bear niece or Cleopatra over the years too key motifs developed. The told me family would marry their siblings and they would kill their siblings like Ptolemy. The Twelfth Taught Cleopatra Seventh. The PTOLEMAIC line was a crowded one. And if you wanted power you had to fight to make your voice heard well. Both kings and Queens were held in high esteem. Only few women were ever able to rule alone. Death or imprisonment quickly found them. Such was the story of our Cleopatra's. Older sister baroness the fourth. When told me the twelfth and Gabinia stormed into Alexandria? They ended her rule and executed. Her Cleopatra was baptized by fire. Into this tradition of family warfare. She became her father's Co regent and deputy at fourteen years old during a particularly rocky period and Ptolemaic history. Their rule was spread wide across seas Cyrus and Cyrus and the influence of the Roman republic. Spur discord as famine and floods wreaked havoc on Egyptian lands then in March fifty one B C Tola may the twelfth fell gravely. Ill can you still see me? Of course Little Isis my glory. I Will See you until the heavens collapse in on themselves. Father you must stay strong. Egypt is not done with you yet. Were your brothers your sister. They fear the state. You're in they cannot face you as you are. You're you stare me down as if I were twenty years younger. I know your soul remains a fire. You taught me the strength of the Ptolemaic Soul. You have great ability. Cleopatra a power of words and will it is the quiet power of women the Unseen Force Beneath Beauty Training. You always said and father. I have a request for you. Today told me the thirteenth. He readies himself to lead. Those should is your brother unruly yet. I am the one you have raised for the position. Am I not while not in my original plan? Yes Cleopatra you are my true air but in the eyes of Egypt. Your brother is necessity. I don't understand father. He's too rash. When Ptolemy the first founded our dynasty he founded it on the tradition of the gods before him to every horace there must be isis and for each isis. A Horse in turn this world in its current state. I believe too dangerous for you alone in your mind. Truly isn't the same as it once was how dare you. You're still my daughter and I obey as I always do father but I know that Egypt who one day be mine alone. This family is weaker by each generation. It is my blood that leads us into a true future. I will not mingle it with my brothers. Take this as my final lesson rise as far as you can daughter but keep your eyes from drifting to the sky for it leaves you expose low rest and rest assured my rain will be the last insecure one in the history of the world. I would bring our Egypt to the sky with me within days. Tola May. The twelfth passed away and Cleopatra and her Middle Brother Tola may the thirteenth were declared joint regions of the Egyptian Kingdom. Cleopatra was right about one thing. Generations of incestuous relationships did lead to health and mental problems in the family and told me the thirteenth was a week and rather ineffective royal presence. While Cleopatra Married the thirteenth they produced no heirs together. It didn't take long for her little brother to realize that Cleopatra didn't plan to share too much of the spotlight with him. You've gone to foster. What could it be this time? Little One how dare you disrespect me like this? For eons the face of the Pharaoh has gray storage option coin. Now all that remains is your womanly visage. You left me no choice. Does tradition means so little to you while Citizens Ben the Nita us. You must bend the knee to me. I am the male heir of the Ptolemaic Reign. I am the chosen son of Alexander's Egypt. Have Your eyes been closed your entire life? We memorized tradition. But I at least have learned. The world is a very different place than the techs give us. Hundreds of years have passed since the founding of our line brother. Even you must admit. Do you even want to be ruler? I I do not care for the insinuation do not try simply talk your way out of decorum. You cannot remake the world in your image by removing mine. Observe me and you will be proven wrong. While Young Cleopatra managed to raise herself above Tola may the thirteenth in the public eye. It only urged him to go further into revolt. He turned to the legions of Roman soldiers left behind by Alice. Cabanas known as the Gubkin. Yanni you see. Cleopatra had given up Goblin Yanni soldiers after group of them. Murdered a Syrian governor son. Their Roman pride perfectly matched toll may the thirteenth. Tola made the thirteenth kindled. The anger of those who opposed. Cleopatra's Feminine Dominance and soon her enemies came home to roost. Sister is that you keep your head down. My guard have checked these passages but one can never be sure of the shadows in Alexandria. Brother aims to have your head least. He's learning how this leadership role actually functions. Only you could find something admirable in such treachery. I must be impressed. He reigned in foolish impulses enough to unify a force of more intelligent against me. At least to give us a game to play a game sister were fleeing for our lives. You could say unfortunately you have not made it very secure for the toll amac women. Have you noticed that we're the only ones left? Then let it be known arsenault. He won't be the only ones left for low still you cling to hopes of victory. Where will we go? How will we return? Our little brother. Thinks he's the strongest man in the world. He's very wrong. You know stronger not yet. But I will return to our story in just a moment now. Back to the life of Cleopatra as Cleopatra Cooled off in exile toll on May the thirteenth tried his hand at global politics. He had his chance when Rome descended onto. Its FIRST WAVE OF CIVIL WAR WITH WOULD BE DICTATOR. Julius Caesar Aligned against the lauded Roman general pompey. Caesar pushed pompey out of Rome and the generals retreat landed him in Egypt. Cleopatra had predicted correctly. Thirteen-year-old told me to play with the big boys so when pompey got off his ship Ptolemy the thirteenth arrested him and then in front of pompey's wife and children the Pharaoh ordered the beheading of the infamous Roman Ptolemy thought such a bold move would win him favor with Julius. Caesar it did the opposite while pompey had become his enemy. Cesar was a Patriot in his heart and found the foreign execution distasteful heartbreaking in response. Caesar himself stormed into Alexandria easily. Assuming Command in the wake of Cleopatra and Ptolemy Power Struggle with a new man in charge one freed from petty concerns about Tradition Cleopatra devised a way to make her way back into power as Caesar took up residence in the Royal Hall of the Pharaohs Cleopatra. Found aid from her old loyal servants rolled herself. Up into an ornate rug and was hand delivered into Caesar's chamber and place it there. I'll set it up myself. What Cory I figured you might be pleased to receive a gift such as me while the content is surely welcome but the motivation must be questioned. Held me stand. At least I trust. You have no hidden blade. Look at me Mighty Caesar. Where would I hide such thing? My Name Cleopatra. The seventh the laboratory rightful ruler of Egypt the exiled queen. I come and go as I please somehow. I doubt this shouldn't I as a Roman you of all men should understand the struggle for viable leadership. I assume you've met my brother. The killer of pompey boy without a head took a true Romans for his own. Unforgivable bet is still under consideration. Consider no more Julius. Caesar I bring you your answer in the form of woman. Your words carry little logic. Hasn't yet but still I feel purpose radiate from you as opposed to the cold sweaty desperation of your kin. You need only look upon my little brother to see weakness. Tell me do I carry any of his look in me no I see. Fire it solidifies. My core I've been told by many men I was born to be made into. Monuments assured self flutter has never rung so true to my ears. I know the secret of Beauty Caesar. Without Him Bishen without passion that wisdom there is no such thing as beauty. Life is not lived for statues or stone stone can barely captured true essence. The greatest among us have so many monuments made because the artists cannot help but attempt to capture if liquoring second of our lifelong fire and do you see such essence in any but yourself that is my final wonder. I was carried here in a bundle of dust. And would you believe someone like me would be subjected to such treatment? If I not believe that together my Caesar we could make such fine monument was nothing but charm Cleopatra seduced the greatest man in Roman history to her side in forty seven BC. Exactly nine months after first meeting. Cleopatra gave birth to Caesar's son Ptolemy Caesar the merging of two great families his nickname was Suryadi. Which meant little Caesar? She was twenty. One and Caesar was fifty two but with the birth of Cesario on Cleopatra Sealed her alliance. Julius backed her claim against told me the thirteenth. This was the final violent reckoning of the PTOLEMAIC LINE PTOLEMY The thirteenth raised an army against his sister and the Roman Cleopatra's last surviving sister arsenault fed up with her sisters plotting and perhaps fearful for her own life down. The road chose to stand with Ptolemy and the tradition that entailed with Arsenal's leadership a great aid to told me Caesar's forces became trapped in the city during an event that became known to history as the siege of Alexandria. It took some time to rally reinforcements. He captured Ptolemy but the other side traded the Pharaoh for Arsenault. Cleopatra promptly threw her traitorous sister into confinement while Ptolemy went against his word and continued the conflict when Caesar finally broke the siege. He faced off against Ptolemy the thirteenth on the Nile. The site of Pompey's murder in defeated him once and for all as his ships burned in the river. Cleopatra watched her brother drown. Caesar declared Cleopatra and her youngest and final brother told me the fourteenth coal regions yet. This time Cleopatra's dominance was guaranteed in forty seven. Bc accompanied by both. Infants is sorry on and told me the fourteenth followed Caesar back to Rome for the first time. This was a scandalous decision. On their part as Caesar was already married to cal purnea yet still housed his foreign mistress in his country home. Caesar went so far. As to erect a statue of Cleopatra. As Isis in the temple of Venus in the middle of the Forum Julian Tantamount to declaring her a Roman icon. She would continue to come visit him over. The next three years solidifying her status in Roman Society and angering the senators like CICERO and Cassius. Who Oppose Caesar's growing control and influence. This was already a momentous time with the defeat of pompey Caesar send it to another level eventually becoming console without any sort of CO consul breaking Roman tradition and establishing himself as essentially dictator for life. Still held some power over him for instance after she introduced him to her astrologer. Caesar updated the Roman calendar as a hybrid with Egypt's creating what is essentially our modern Western calendar yet. Not every sweet. Nothing CLEOPATRA WHISPERED IN HIS EAR. Worked its magic. Her primary concern was directed towards Serena's future Cleopatra. My Love I received word but was locked in ceaseless debate with tiresome CICERO. Kato's demise has only urged these fools onward in their campaign against me. I received word of my own regarding your nephew Octavian. Do you choose to oppose my decision. Making I come from a land where blood flows from the gods to the rulers. I only assumed the same would be true under the leadership of a man. Such as yourself Octavian. Is My nephew cesare on your a ridiculous name for a boy. He's already enough of controversy as is. Would you like me to name you queen of Rome as well? I've never asked for such a thing you know. I haven't the wolf your with would eat you alive and I need to breathe it. Sometimes I get the feeling I am little but a stepping stone to you. Do not pretend I'm anything but an afterthought to you I do not mind Julius. I know I can never truly live in Rome. But WHY WOULD I? Alexandria is Migrate Kingdom. I only seek to unify and empowered. Both you seek a world order that the world is not ready to sustain. Do not plan to wait on the world to catch up. My job is to lead is not our purpose or if you lost that too in the fog of your own power woman woman. Do not leave me here. That's why I'm leaving this empire. Julius and taking our son back to the one. He is suited to Cleopatra broke. Caesar's hard heart but before her carriage had left Rome. Her ex lover was assassinated by his own. Senators perhaps feeling inspired when she returned to Alexandria. Cleopatra proceeded to poison the final brother Ptolemy little fourteenth died before he even reached puberty in all honesty knowing the reach of her ambition. Such a quiet fate was probably a mercy to the boy doing what Caesar would not Cleopatra Name Sorry on her co region the horace to her isis she prepared to raise him as the ultimate successor to both the Western and eastern worlds. It was a perfect arrangement for Cleopatra's ruling style. Her Coal region was still swaddled in babies cloth and was completely under her control so she began to make some big political moves. And the I was siding with this. Assyrian side in the renewed Roman civil war while brutus and Cassius raged against the status quo the new Roman triumvirate controlled mainly by Caesar's best friend General Mark Antony and his heir apparent octavian fought to hold onto the old Rome and forty one BC. Cleopatra is called before Mark Antony in Tarsus a city in Modern Day Turkey Console Antony Cleopatra of Egypt comes before you today. Gods are excused. Lethal with me yes please guards I see you come with your charm intact not to mention a grand parade at your back did I. I do not even notice such things anymore. I was very prepared to dislike you. After everything. I am always prepared to be disliked triumph please. Julius was friend to us both let us dismiss the formality. Hyacinths the invitation was more of an order than anything else excuse. Any formal preparation may have taken in the public eye. I wanted this to be recorded as an accusation. But there's is little doubt in my mind that you're on the side of the Syrians. You need not look further than the name of my only son Lovely Cleopatra. My true purpose and asking here is to request your help. I intend to make war against pathogens. I must display skill above the sorts of my fellow travelers. I fear it would be the only way to hold Rome together. I am and always have been a woman of Unification. Power must be held by the most responsible among us yet. There are rumors that you do not well with others. You're dead brethren husbands. Speak to this. I did say I believe. Only the most responsible should hold power by any means. Forgive this digression. Julius always spoke of your beauty but I saw you at his villa. I thought perhaps it was saturation on his part but yet say I already know what myself. You are radiance incarnate. Nothing so complex Mark Antony. I am a goddess and Queen. I simply know it to be true and so it is so it is so began the partnership of Antony and Cleopatra Both in love and War we'll return to our story in just a moment and now let's continue the story. In December Forty Cleopatra gave birth to twins from Antony Alexander Helius the second in Cleopatra. Selene the second while the two parted company for four years the next time Antony came to Alexandria on route for his war against the par theuns. He called it his home and Cleopatra his wife without even annulling his marriage to Octavian Sister Octavia minor. Cleopatra had finally been able to wrangle a Roman man into her empire soon after came their third child Ptolemy Philadelphia's and with a few words Cleopatra destroyed the last of her ptolemaic rivals off her command antony executed arsenault for her treasonous involvement with the siege of Alexandria. There were no more siblings to challenge her rule that is humorous only far from the Republic of Rome. Do I actually feel free wrong? Calls itself Free Alexandria always has been since the Almighty Pharaoh. My people know what I have sacrificed for them. Of course they do my beautiful Isis and you will have to sacrifice no more together. We've created the family of a new civilisation. Tell me these plans. Let me hear them from Your Lips for Alexander. The lands of Armenia Media and Parthenon for Selene Sirnak perhaps Libya for little Philadelphia's was Syria Phoenicia and silly of course all of these lands will be hours they already are but they have yet to realize if Caesar was our times Alexander you and I shall be taught me and what of Rome. What if that fall smelling place? You are a Roman man after all will you leave it to Octavian? We already have our disagreements. It's a matter of time until he turns on us. Then we will crush him too and I will give that city back to my son true. Caesar this I will do for you in the Isis and you will be above all the Queen of Kings never met a man who could match my words before you're still believe have a few languages on me. Don't you good thing? We have all the time in the world legitimized in a way by Antony's presence Cleopatra and Cesario on rose to their highest level of recognition yet Cleopatra as Isis. And sorry on as Horace Living Gods to the citizens of Egypt. Cleopatra was determined to diverge from the line of tolmie insignificant ways creating her own kind of dynasty who posh my child. I've only come in to look on you. I'm a grown man. Mother barely twelve. My uncles were dead and gone by this time in their lives. Your uncles were not. You always remember that I will leave you if my presence to Stir Ono beloved mother of course not. I was not even asleep. You cannot find yourself in dreams. Nights are not restful for me mother ever since the grand ceremony with Mark Antony and your other children I feel as if there's too much for me to be thinking of. That is an admirable trait for a ruler. But you are not a full blooded one yet. Leave the worries for me for the time being. But if I'm your horace King of all civilization how can I ever sleep It is a question I often asked myself when my father would keep me up late with my studies telling me endless tales of the bloody history of our line but that is why of done what I have done to end the violence of our family to make it a true family once again only from there. Do I see any peace for civilization any true benevolent power? I shed blood in hopes of draining all the toxins from the world so that I may hand you something pure and beautiful yet. You rely on Rome as your father did. Though I confide in you do not mistake it for subservience. Keep that blade from your words to not try to cut me with them. You will fail but I- excuse your perspective. It must seem that you I promise my son. I am beholden to no Roman man. No Caesar or Antony I hope you know. They all underestimate you. Everyone always does. Oh I know it's my son. They always have then. I will dream tonight. Mother of the day you stand before the burning fields of Western men and they beg you for gentle rain outside of Alexandria Antony neglected relations with Rome and Octavian resulted in a final breakdown between the two final triumph hours in thirty three BC. Octavian rallied the Roman Senate against Antony by appealing to their fear of Cleopatra and her desires to absorb the Roman state into her own by thirty one. Bc Octavian had amassed an army with which to invade Egypt. Antony and Cleopatra prepped for Final War to fund her Army Cleopatra Dug into the long guarded gold vaults of Alexander. Some decreed this as a sign of weakness. But in Cleopatra's mind she was simply using the last of the resources left to her by her now. Impotent ancestors her duty was to present day Egypt that Summer Anthony's navy sailed against Octavian off the coast of actinium. Cleopatra's own fleet approached the Malay from afar. My Goddess spoke rises on the horizon due out advisors. Give us no clarity. Who IS BURNING OCTAVIAN? Antony both sides where Roman colors and both sides take fire but the line is breaking in our direction. I believe Octavian has triumphed on this day but Evelyn Catis. What shall we do damned food signal to him? We make a retreat. This will have to be a ground war. I am not sure that will be achievable. I will not let Alexandria unguarded as that Roman ingrate rapes her shores. Turn the fleet. Antony has failed us. Cleopatra was no fool she would not be making romantic last. Stand with Antony on this day. Not when her true love of Alexandria still remained in her grasp. Her support would have been useless anyway. The military minded of Octavian was too great Anthony's fleet broke and fled toward Alexandria with Octavian. Hot on his tail when Cleopatra Reach her home the realization dawned this would have to be her final bastion truly accurate records breakdown here with multiple variations on the same basic history Cleopatra. Along with her two handmaidens. Iris and Sharma took refuge inside of Cleopatra's giant MONUMENT TO HERSELF AS ISIS. Day barred the doors behind them. Smart as Cleopatra realized that whichever Roman man reached her first Octavian or Antony neither would be too pleased with her. At the moment it was true. Antony was devastated at her abandonment but he had a bigger problems when he reached dry land he could not rally his remaining troops to his cause on August. First Thirty Anthony's army deserted him and joined up with Octavian Antony arrived at Cleopatra's figurative doorstep broken and alone. I know she awaits the end here. Where else would she flea? She's used to fall. Her bodyguards led me into destruction. Where else could she go reminisce? Speak to me well boy. Seemingly the last true believer in Western civilization. I come with unfortunate news. She refuses to see me. Is that it. I give her an empire and she will let me rot on these part streets. I fear fear. The Pharaoh is dead impossible. I fear she has passed from us. It is all gone gone. Plutarch tells us that Antony took a blade to himself in an attempted suicide. While again sources diverge plutarch's narrative continues that even this could not kill Antony. He lay in the street begging for death for anyone to finish the job. When Cleopatra heard this still alive and well in her monument she altered her plan perhaps a shred of love remained in her heart. Antony was brought before the still doomed. Pharaoh as Octavian closed in on the city he was literally hauled up by ropes into an opening on the side of Cleopatra's monument. You you are too clever and the Isis. Add much to cool. Look at him. Iris get him water for the sake of Rome. Get me wine. The last cask belongs to you. You're not split it with me. I must keep my head for the fall. Caesar as I lay in the streets hurt his legions approach. I was almost thankful you're dead. Cleopatra you cannot allow him to capture you flee while you have the chance I will not leave my city to this barbarian. You're right about that. It'll be barbarous. He plans to parade you to the streets in a gilded cage. He'll make you into the horror of Oliver home. He will settle for nothing less than your authored decimation. This you have heard from the lips of my own soldiers before they deserted me. I thought he would go quickly. Antton or better yet. Surrender yourself to the forgiveness of Octavian. We're all long past forgiveness. You know this here council Antony drink not Roman but it will do I. Basically Badger leave like children would live a takes us Aryan. He has no story destiny before him. Now on the short one if you truly care for your family Antony Antony my goddess he's gone rapid silk my goddess Octavian has breached Alexandria. What shall we do? I will see his face. He will see mine. Octavian will see the woman who should have brought him low when Octavian arrived in Alexandria. He was led to Cleopatra's monument and found her and her handmaidens inside her own mausoleum. Halt all halt. It has been years and never have. I seen your face so close. What do you think overrated? Get to know me as your uncle did as Antony did you will come to realize that everything in life is overrated. Except for me enough. Your words are magic. No More Cleopatra the seventh fill up tore you are now a prisoner room. You sound more like an emperor by the day better than some foolish power hungry girl. I am a giver of life. I doubt your manhood even prepared for such a task yet. Antagonize as you please. I am stone to your fire already. Molded against you fitting you found me here in your Grave Ono. You will be coming with me to row. I have your accommodations Papan. Have you heard gilded baas suited for the Queen of Kings? The people of Rome will welcome you into city limits this time with great fanfare and much. Deng to be thrown. I would expect nothing better from Romans. Good Fortune in your own future rule. I thank you for doing away with Antony. Saves me the trouble? His children will be taken. Care of by Octavia a true mother. Not a false goddess. I I am grateful for that and Serie on the little season only a babe when I saw him last. He is a strong boy. Intelligent I purge the week toll make blood. I have given the world. A true leader. Do not forsake him. Yes well unfortunately. It's not good to have too many caesars bastard usurper. This is how you honor your adopted father. I- murdering his kin. I hear it is the GYP Shin tradition visit not men God every portal. In and out. Here there are but three women. You should be capable enough cleopatra. I will return with your son's head and your magnificent prison. No you bastard. No Octavian had caught the greatest prize of Egypt but even in victory. He made the same mistake. Many men made in dealing with Cleopatra while under guard the Romans allowed Iris and Charmian to leave and return with a basket of Figs Cleopatra. A final meal in her beloved Alexandria when Octavian and his cards returned. They found the two handmaidens passing into death and Cleopatra. Far ahead of them for hidden in that basket was what was called at the time and ASP now known as Egyptian Cobra as she. Her Final Decadence Cleopatra had stretched out her arm and allowed herself to be bitten. The Queen of Kings went out on her own terms. She would be caged by no Roman ever again. The Tragic Final Act of defiance in one. That did little to save her plan. Legacy as Octavian promised. Caesarian was executed after serving the shortest reign of any soul. Ptolemaic Pharaoh and the final one Egypt was absorbed by Octavian emerging empire and Western culture dominated the Middle East for years to come one has to wonder. Sometimes if Cleopatra acquired such a legendary rule without even achieving victory in her aims. How much more renown would she be? If she had overcome the Romans her battle to unify and consolidate power would have spelled out a very different kind of civilization with less division between East and West. While it's impossible to know if we would be better off. There is no denial of Cleopatra's ambition and her incredible ability to operate as a female political figure in a male dominated culture without a chance ever post ptolemaic ideal. Cleopatra refused to be taken into the Western culture. She had long to overcome but the fact remains the ptolemies were doomed either way. Cleopatra refused to let their line be washed away she empowered herself and sacrificed her entire life to create a new type of society. She became an ideological monument. A sign post in history marking the path forward guiding the way to the future. Thanks for listening you can find more episodes of famous fates and all other park has originals for free on spotify famous bates is a spotify exclusive. Not only to spotify already. Have all your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals. Like famous fates for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream. Famous fades on spotify. Just open the APP and type famous fates in the search bar remember. It's a spotify exclusive so you can only find the show right here and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast at work. We'll see next time.
Womens Rights - An Appreciation For The People Who Fought For Them - Dr. Barbara Roberts
"It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you in the life. If you want to live CD medic target your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active. OTC ingredients plus the added benefits of THC free hemp oil get get back to your life with CBD medic available online and at CBS these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease. It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you and a life you want to live CD medic targets your pain at its source it's fast acting relief with active ingredients plus the added benefits of THC free hemp oil get back to your life CD medic available online and at cvs these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent vent any disease. I think the main thing that you should be grateful for is that they have more and better opportunities than did women my age when we were growing up for example where I went to medical school there had never been a female cardiac surgical resident and while I was there was when they had their first female surgical resident so I I think we should be grateful for the opportunities that women of my generation for so hard for but we also have to be vigilant we have to be vigilant because of the political situation in this country now and I like to think that it's just the last gas of for a patriarchal system that has oppressed women and men but mainly women for Millennia welcome to the gratitude podcast on. WWW view ww dot George Bente it's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain rain and it's getting in between you and the life you want to live. CBD Medic target your pain added source. It's fast acting relief with active. OTC ingredients plus the added benefits benefits of THC FREE HEMP oil get back to your life with CBD medic available online at CBS. These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose knows treat cure or prevent any disease dot com. You'll hear a new story each week that will inspire more gratitude in your own life. Our mission is to inspire one hundred thousand people to discover how feel gratitude and live a happy life through the amazing life stories of our successful guests and they're actionable tips had now now the host of our podcast Jordan Benda high gratitude seeker welcome to dispatch episode of the grant podcast we have here today doctor Barba Barbara Roberts. She's the first female adult cardiologists in Rhode Island and her life story is story alive full of passion for Women's Rights in Motherhood in medicine love ending being the underdog she stood up for what she believed in and battle politics career stereotypes her children's fathers the family core system public scrutiny and even her own conscience at times and she made it through all of this pro proving to be a hero oh of her own unique journey and I think that's that's quite amazing and now she has written a memoir about her journey called the doctor broad a Mafia love story and we have here today with us on the date of the release of the bulk and I'm really happy to to have her here today with us so welcome Byron. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about both gratitude and the role it has played my lights and talk about out my book my pleasure my pleasure so firstly congratulations on on being such a courageous person such a courageous woman and <hes> I'm. I'm really happy to have you on the podcast and <hes> am really curious soon. <hes> what's your take on gratitude. What what how you define gratitude well. One of my favorite sayings about gratitude was actually written a few thousand years ago by someone whom I've always been fascinated by and that is marcus <unk> Cicero who was a politician in Rome in the last days of the Roman republic he was from outside outside of Rome but rose through the ranks of Roman public offices to become the best known ardor and the best known lawyer lawyer of his day and he said gratitude is not only the greatest virtues but the parent of all the others and I think that encapsulates a lot of wisdom because if you look at people who are successful restful by and large they are grateful in my own life. I think the thing I'm most grateful for is that I come it from a very large extended family. I was raised as the oldest of ten children in a devout Catholic family and my mother and her twin sister with the youngest in a large family so I have dozens literally dozens of <unk>. My Mother's twin sister raised eight children. My mother raised ten children's. My father sister raised five children and all well just about all of them have children and grandchildren so family reunions needless to say our mob scenes but from coming from such such a large extended family and since I was the oldest having to care for my younger siblings from a young age I think gave me a lot of strengths that that perhaps only children or people from small families don't have and then I went on to have three children of my own and now I have a grandson and nine extraordinarily grateful for little Johnny Little Johnny Roberts. My grandson am grateful to my children and their partners so I feel like I have a lot to be grateful for. I also had a successful career in medicine when it was very unusual usual for women to be doctors. Don't forget when I applied to medical school. In the nineteen sixties. There was a quota and no medical school class had more than ten percent and women so I- overcame that obstacle I was the second woman ever accepted into my internship program. I it was the first woman ever accepted into my cardiology fellowship and in many ways I had to be a trailblazer particularly elite after I became a conscious feminist when I was a resident at Yale newhaven hospital and got involved in the pro choice movement if it before Roe versus rain and then through that became active in the Anti Vietnam War Movement in spoke at many mass demonstrations calling for uh-huh stroll our troops from South East Asia so I've had a very eventful life and I hope that I have told it honestly and fully elite in my memoir the doctor broad a Mafia love story wonderful wonderful. I can only imagine <hes> <hes> what you went through all of the experiences that you have had in your life at one thing that I'm really curious about this. How is it to be the first one like a trail baiser and to to have to face all of these challenges like how. How were you able to to to do that well? I was frightened obviously an anxious and nervous but I decided that I was not going to lead to your rule my life what I was going to pursue my dreams no matter what and that's basically what I did. I just said I'm I'm going to be a survivor. I am going to work as hard as I can. I set goals and I worked as hard as I needed needed to to achieve those goals. I was blessed with good health. I was blessed with a support system in my family and friends so oh. I didn't do this alone but I decided from very early age that nothing was going to stop me. Wow that's amazing and I think it's a an amazing message for for our listeners to not be stopped by our fears and instead to to do something something about them and another beautiful thing that you mentioned is that well whenever I at least when whenever I see people onstage <hes> stage talking to fence of thousands of people you'll only see that person but <hes> behind that person you have like you said a support group family people that <hes> are behind that person that <hes> <hes> that give that person courage to speak out and to to know that whatever happens day are still loved and <hes> still appreciated for for who they are and I think that's a very interesting and important thing to mention exactly and I try not to forget the debt of gratitude to all the people who helped me along the way that's amazing. I love this and I know that <hes> your book is <hes> aimed at younger women to help them learn some of the lessons of how to survive adversity to become heartbreak and how to come out in the end and <hes> really lead a full and happy life. Can you tell us a little bit more about this topic sure no. I think that tip younger women today have no idea what the world was like for women in the nineteen fifties in the nineteen sixties. Even in the nineteen seventies before the Supreme Court decision in Roe versus Wade legalized abortion when I was a medical student and interns and residents resident I saw women coming into emergency rooms with perforated uteruses and even partially disemboweled because they were desperate enough to seek out back alley illegal abortions. I know of a woman who died because she was denied a lifesaving therapeutic abortion and these experiences radicalized me and actually led add to my break with the Catholic church initially broke with the Catholic Church over the issue of birth control because I knew that I would not be able to get through medical school and postgraduate training without using birth control which was enough to castle church and still is so had left the church over the issue of birth control and the final break occurred over the issue of abortion and I became a very outspoken <unk> choice activists and to this day I I'm in the last time I spoke at a pro choice. teach-in was just this past. October but women have no idea what the world world was like and yet we see at this current time in our political climate very powerful right-wing forces mobilising leising to deny women the right to control their own bodies and the right to control your own body is absolutely foundational to freedom and and personal autonomy every woman should have right to decide when and whether she is going to have a child and I wanted to shout don't women what we had to do back in the sixties and seventies to win the right to abortion because I think the right to abortion is under attack now more viciously than it has been since versus Wade. I also wanted women to know that you can go through divorce. You can go through acrimonious custody battles battles you can you know survive these things with your sanity and your happiness intact and that's even before we get into all the acrimony. I was subjected to when I became the cardiologists to the head of the New England Oakland Mafia and that's a whole story in itself how I became his doctor basically my testimony that he was too sick to scan trial that he had such coach unstable cardiovascular disease the stress of a trial never mind jail would almost certainly kill him that allowed him to live out last three and a half years suit life if not <hes> you know totally free at least in the comfort of his old home but that was another trial. Al By fire because the state police and the Providence police federal prosecutors the FBI had been trying for many years to the patient Mr Patriarca behind bars again and he had actually hidden from the world a true extent of his illness and when I was I called to check on him in the search would state police barracks on December fourth nineteen eighty he I I had already agreed to be his physician but I had never seen him before because since office appointment had to be rescheduled on because the fact that he had a gangrenous toe that required imputation when I first saw him I was appalled at how sticky was in fact about the second unsought I had was oh my God. He looks like he's about to have a cardiac arrest and I'll never be able to resuscitate him here and it was only with great difficulty not that I was able to persuade the Superintendent of Rhode Island State Police to allow me to take her to the hospital where I practice which is called the Miriam Hospital and that wound up being being six-week hospitalizations and that began an almost four year saga where I testified under oath in multiple courts this about his condition and the state and the federal prosecutors hired multiple other cardiologists to try refute by testimony about how sick he was not one of them. Did everyone of them supported. My findings supported my diagnosis and supported my recommendation that he not ought to trial amazing. It's it's one of those things that you you see in movies movies but it's like hard to believe that it's it's real life. It was real life. Wow you've really been through quite a lot and <hes> while what I love about you and about how you tell the stories that it's empowering and you you were you were able to to fight those things and to to stay a professional and to stay focused on what you felt was was the right thing right correct as I as I mentioned in the book when you graduate from Medical School you take the hippocratic oath and there are two main parts of the hippocratic oath. I do no harm and second. I will always put my patients interests ahead of my own. It doesn't say I'll put my patient as long as he's not a criminal his interests ahead of my own. It doesn't say I'll put his interest head of my own. Unless he's a felon it says any any patient who comes to me I will put his interest ahead of my own and it was clearly in the interests of my patient Mr Patriarchates that he not not be put on trial just just the mention of his legal difficulties often precipitated severe attacks event China and I know for for a fact that it was in China which is symptom people get in their heart is starved for oxygen because on multiple occasions. He was hooked up to an electrocardiogram machine during these episodes. Let's and the EKG showed the characteristic changes that one sees in the ekg when the heart isn't getting adequate blood supply so here was a man who's very disabled he had been diabetic since the nineteen forties. He had such severe neuropathy. which is you know destruction of the nerves from diabetes? He had such severe neuropathy that he had terrible muscle wasting in his hands. He couldn't for example example cut his own food. He couldn't button his own shirt. He was completely dependent on his wife to accomplish those tasks for him. He couldn't couldn't walk across the dent in his home. Without having angina he was on multiple medications. He had to be followed very closely mostly and it was a challenge to keep them alive as long as he was alive. In fact I remember vividly at one point I was testifying in court and the the prosecutor whose name was Suma girl kept pressing me asking the same question you know using different words but basically the question was this man is as sick as you say he is. Why isn't he dead already looked at her. I said only God in her wisdom knows when any person is GonNa die and the whole court erupted into laughter except the judge. You have to face her so yes. It was wrong. It was quite a saga I I mentioned also in the book that much against my wishes the Providence Journal newspaper published a big article on me in in the Sunday magazine section and the title was who is the Real Dr Roberts and that day came out on Sunday and I was making hospital rounds. I approached the nurses station on the fourth floor overheard to the nurses talking and one said we ever have you read the article about Dr Robertson the paper today and her friend said Nah now. I'm going to wait for the movie and it was at that moment that I began to sink. Maybe maybe my story is pretty interesting. Maybe I'll write about it someday and that was sort of the genesis of my writing memoir which try it worked on off and on for close to twenty years now how I arrived at the title is another amusing story shortly. After I moved to Rhode what island I was dating a young man who was Italian American and he had some relatives who were alleged organized crime figures and it was through him that I I heard the names of for example the mob lawyer Jack Cellini Junior Patrick I had already heard Greenland Petra because and she was always the news on a national level for many years but <hes> we remained friends after we no longer dating and after I was identified in the newspapers Raymond's position he called the one day and he said to tell you something. Sonny Barberie said friend of mine called and said if any remember the doctor broad. You used to go out with choosy old man's doctor now. I thought this was hilarious because tomato broad was a woman with large breasts swale frontal lobes of the brain and I knew I just the opposite <unk> sure but I don't have large breasts so when when I thought about writing this memoir thought about title would be I thought yeah it's gotta be called Doctor Broad. Eh that's so cool that you have this this sense of humor and you see these kinds of experiences lightly and you're you're able to to laugh about about this part. Even though I'm sure that in in those moments it wasn't that easy but they also on due to ask you about the differences like you talked a little bit about how life was for for women in those days like what could <hes> our young listeners that <hes> that are now with all of this technology and all of these freedoms and rights <hes> what could they they'd be grateful for compared to two young women in <hes> in in those times well. I think they could be grateful for the fact that it's much easier for them. To enter the profession slide the law doc profession the medical profession. It's easier the women to become politicians although we still are woefully under represented in both the national legislature and our state legislatures. It's easier for a woman for the Governor Rhode Island finally has its first female governor owner so I think the main thing that young women should be grateful for is that they have more and better opportunities than and did women my age when we were growing up for example where I went to medical school there had never been a female L. Cardiac surgical resident and while I was there was when they had their first female surgical resident about the only searchable so specialty women could enter or plastics or pediatrics. They were whole specialties and sub specialties in which women women were totally absent. Obviously there was no women sitting on the Supreme Court those days and now we have what three which which isn't task but listen to third so I think we should be grateful for the opportunities that <hes> women of my generation for so hard for but we also have to be vigilant we have to be the judge because of the political situation in this this country now and I like to think that it's just the last chance of a patriarchal system that has oppressed women and eh but mainly women former Atlanta. I love this perspective. I love the fact that even though and I love this it the way you see things like even though there is something bad you you see it with the positive twister no like even though it's something that's not as it should be. <hes> you still see it from a wider perspective that that it's actually positive. I love that right. What if you see something. That isn't the way it should bait then. Get out there and tricks it. Don't just sit back and say there's nothing I can do about it. There's almost always something you can do about it. I mean right now. I think the whole world is facing an existential threat to our planet find it and our species in climate change but everybody has to do what they can to combat climate change about five or six years ago. Oh now my husband and I invested in solar panels on our moves and not only did it cut our electric bills drastically but it is lowered our carbon and footprint so those there's always something one can do. It's important to identify the problem and and then think about ways that you as an individual or you as a member of whatever community you're part of can do to head off disaster yeah. I I believe that too because that are people that are fighting out therefore for different things that are really important for the world but they can't do everything and it's up to us to do do small things that make the big things work and <hes> I totally agree with that but change changing a little bit <hes> the <hes> the direction I wanted to ask you if you remember <hes> like like how you discovered gratitude like <hes> when was your first experience feeling grateful and like nudge just <hes> experiencing the idea of gratitude but actually feeling grateful well one of the first most times I remember feeling overwhelming gratitude was when I received notification that I had been accepted into medical school now. I was still in college college and when I got that letter telling me that I had been admitted to medical school class of nineteen sixty eight. I was beside myself solve with happiness and gratitude amazing amazing. I think we we all have these kinds of moments and <hes> and one of the reasons why love asking this question is because people will be thinking thinking about their own. <hes> experience granted. You're like their own moments in which they felt this overwhelming sensation yeah no of gratitude and Yeah I love. I love asking this question so <hes> getting back to uh-huh finding out more about you and your experience who are the people in your life that you that you who felt had the really begin packed that you're very grateful for and that you'd like commission well in the field of medicine. I would be remiss. Mystified did not mention Dr Bernard Loud. Dr Bernard Loan is still alive. He's a cardiologist who's now in his nineties. He is the most brilliant physician brilliant cardiologists <hes> had ever met in my life and he was one of my instructors. When I was was a fellow at Brigham and women's Hospital back in the nineteen seventies he was not only brilliant physician for example he invented the cardiac <unk> Lindor and he revolutionized the treatment of heart attacks not only did that but he was also a long time peace and anti-nuclear activist and at the the height of the Cold War in nineteen eighty one he and Russian cardiologist by the name of Yevgeny Chaz loss founded sounded the International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War. I W and four years later I P P W was awarded the Nobel a Peace Prize and Dr Moun- Dr Chazot travelled to Oslo to receive the Nobel Peace Prize on behalf of it and but Dr Loan again was a brilliant and he's retired now but was a brilliant brilliant physician on when he taught us what I have tried to teach my medical students and interns and residents and fellows. He told us that the most important thing you can do for your patient is to listen have to listen and hear not only what the patient's saying but here the emotion behind those words particularly in cardiology. It's very important sometimes to try and get people to make very difficult lifestyle changes and no patient is going to acquiesce in in making difficult lifestyle changes unless they believe that the physician is hearing them and the physician cares about them and and this may not happen at the first visit although the foundation must be laid at the first is this requires an ongoing relationship <unk> between patient physician in which listening continues to be the most important aspect so certainly hey darling was a huge influence in my life in that respect and my parents were a huge influence in in my life and even though they brought me up to be. Catholic and I left the Catholic Church behind my pay. My parents were civil. Rights activist <unk> four almost was a civil rights movement they in friends of the Arabs belong to the Catholic worker movement. They were followers always of Dorothy Day who is a radical Catholic pacifist and my father for example and mother were part of the Catholic interracial council. My father in my sisters went to Washington for the things demonstration in which Martin was gave his. I have a dream speech so I was raised to be a strong in my morals to not be prejudiced scandal what was right. I always say I was raised to be a saint and preferably admire and I became a doctor because I could become a priest. My father worshiped priests and doctors and I knew I didn't have a prayer of becoming a cast increased side became a doctor so those three people were very seminal influences in my life mazing amazing. I love how how you described them and <hes> yeah I could feel their gratitude for for all of their their help and all of their positive influence in your life and I think that's that's that's quite amazing and <hes> <hes>. I don't know if you have right now like <hes> practice or something that you do to keep grateful. I thank you have a positive attitude and that that white perspective that <hes> that makes you a grateful person person. Am I correct. Yes you do try to keep things in perspective sometimes. If I find something upsetting I say to Myself Barbara in the cosmic scale of things it matters Diddley. Squat Jusuf Trust doesn't matter get over it and get on with your life. No everybody has things in life lip since it's an almost daily occurrence but you have to look at the large picture and realize that we are on an infinitesimal speck in vast universe and all we can do is be the best that we can be exactly beautiful beautifully sad and I also think that it's it's a great idea to think about the bigger picture. Whenever we we think about our situation we feel bad about different things because when we do that we see that in fact it it's not that big of a deal and <hes> even if we feel it it is it's it's much it's much easier to see the bigger picture and to see that this part of something bigger and <hes> it's very powering right? It's easier on your nervous system. If you let every little thing bother you you're not gonNA be happier grateful person but if you try to put things in perspective all the larger perspective affected you'll be much less stressed and career and more grateful yeah exactly and <hes> <hes> by the way as a cardiologists <hes> have you seen the difference between people that <hes> bend and to be more positive more grateful and <hes> people have like more pessimistic dependency. Actually there have been scientific studies that are fairly valid that shows that people who have a positive outlook on life have live longer and have fewer chronic illnesses certainly in cardiology. We know that depression is a major risk factor for for having a cardiac event. If you look at married couples people been married for a long time the death of espouse often brings on a depression Russian and in the year after the death of a spouse the the <unk> death rate for the surviving spouse is increased to a significant degree degree and many of those deaths are due to heart disease so absolutely emotions play a large role in health. I used to tell my patients. You can't can't separate the heads from the heart without fatal consequences. The heart is richly endowed with nerds travel from the brain to the heart the yourself you know that when you get frightened or ranchos your pulse goes up you may not feel your blood pressure going up but believe me it does and on the other the hand when you laugh your blood pressure comes down your door from levels rise your pulse often decreases so laughter and gratitude and the positive emotions are helpful not only to your heart but to your endocrine endocrine system to your bowels. There's no part of the body that isn't influenced by actions actions and thoughts that mitigate stress rather than amplified stress than that I think it's it's pure gold and I think we we should think about it more often and something about it and I what I love a lot about you is the fact that you actually integrate <hes> humor and laughter Evan in beings. Thanks a serious person like thinking about serious things like <hes> treating people and <hes> I dunno social justice and all all kinds of things I love the fact that you keep <hes> light heart and yet that's actually really interesting having a light heart art. No yes and you know after good for you and I you know when I was still in active clinical practice. I had no compunctions about trying to make my patients laugh. I often did I wanted them to leave their offices feeling happy and lifted not feeling downcast and depressed. This is wonderful and it's it's really powerful because the we are not just like I believe this and <hes> as I can understand that you shared this vision where we don't only have <hes> all kinds of illnesses but our emotions have an influence on this and having good positive attitude than <hes> laughing and feeling good can actually help the body heal easier and <hes> I love the fact that you are able to do this for so many people in your career and yeah. I guess if I've been very fortunate. I've been very fortunate in aspect yeah so if people weren't able to to thank you for this. I'm going to be their voice and <hes> I'll thank you for for doing this for them and I think that <hes> even though they might not have seen it at the time it it has had the agreed agreed impact on them. Thank you Jordan. You're welcome and my patients are very welcome. I was always humbled by the trust they put me and I tried very hard to be worthy at trust. That's wonderful mess wonderful so we're nearing the end of our time together and I wanted to ask you. Where can our audience find your book or learn more about you the but the doctor brought a Mafia love story is available on Amazon it it has come out in the kindle version hardcover and paperback. It's also available in the UK and in Australia and Canada. It's it's available in Bookstores Barnes and noble or you can ask your local bookstore to order it. It's a pretty much available over much of the English speaking world amazing amazing and I also know that you you have a website where can get in contact with you right. That's correct. It's the doctor broad dot com awesome awesome good so thank you very very much for being. Hewitt's US and for sharing your wisdom and <hes> you're beautiful perspective on life. Thank you Georgia for having me and thank you for listening to me my pleasure. Do you want to stay up to date with the latest news but don't have the time. The newsworthy is he's a great daily podcast that helps you stay up to date with everything you need to know. In less than ten minutes unlike many news sources out there that can leave. You feeling depressed arrest. The Newsworthy is fast fair and fun search for the newsworthy. Wherever you listen to your podcast or go to the newsworthy ready dot com to check it out the starlight lounge presents an evening with the progressive box the moon. That's let's go tickling the Ivories. He just saved by bundling home and Auto Progressive GonNa finally by ring for that Gal is Hugo. Send my condolences. I you this next one. There's a bird in my all. Thank you progressive casualty. Insurance Company and affiliates discounts not available in all states or situations. It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind signed. It's pain and it's getting in between you and a life you want to live. CBC Medic Targets your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active. OTC ingredients begins plus the added benefits of T._H._C. Free Hemp Oil. Get back to your life with C._B._D. Matic available online at C._B._S. These statements have not been evaluated by the F._D._A. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease.