20 Episode results for "Roger"

Part One: Roger Stone: Evil Genius or Sad, Broken Boy?

Behind the Bastards

52:31 min | 1 year ago

Part One: Roger Stone: Evil Genius or Sad, Broken Boy?

"Hi, I'm Ariel Casten Jonathan Strickland and together, we're going to tell you the stories behind some of the biggest triumphs and failures and business. That's right. We're going to explore situations that tested the medal of entrepreneurs pivotal moments required. Making tough decisions. We'll be talking about some big companies that everybody knows like Disney LEGO and Harley Davidson and together we try to answer the question. What do you do when you find yourself at the brink? Listen and subscribe at apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to your podcasts. I'm Robert Evans, and this is the introduction behind the bastards my podcast where we talk about terrible people and all the things you don't know about them with me today. My guest for this episode is Tim Catan host of they tried to bury us podcast about immigrants coming into the United States. Exactly every week is a different American origin story. So we have a different Imigran every week awesome. It's been great. Well, today, we're not talking about an immigrant, but we are talking about someone who has done on a lot of damage immigrants not directly, but just through the people. He supported sure, yeah. We're talking about Roger stone. Would you know about Roger stone hammer? I I know a little bit about him. I know that he is he lives in the upside down is I think a phrase, I said you outside. Yeah. I think he is a white Malcolm X to me a political version of a by any means necessary. You donate meet like before. Malcolm went to mecca and got balancing in his life without principle without print by any means necessary. I don't care who I heard. I don't care. How often I have to lie. I think that lying is good. I think if you believe in doing things that are virtuous that you're a chump. It's a cancer in our political system. Yeah. And he's a human cancer. I'm -solutely. Now listeners will note that we did a two part episode on Paul Manafort months ago, I recommend checking that out too because they're they're two halves of the same coin. Now, we talked about one coin back in twenty eighteen today were dropping the other side. So let's get into it on August. Twenty seventh nineteen fifty two little baby. Roger stone was born to Gloria rose, and Roger j stone. His mother was a journalist who followed local politics has father drilled wells, Roger grew up in Lewes borough New York and described his family as middle class in blue collar. So so far we're doing fine normal middle American boy Roger was eight years old when he got involved in his first political election. He campaigned for John F Kennedy, and even at that tender age he knew that honesty was not the way to achieve political goals since right? He later recalled to the Washington Post, quote, I remember going through the cafeteria line and telling every kid that Nixon was in the favor of school on Saturdays. My first. Critical trick which is cute. It's fun. It's so it's like an origin story of a villain. Yeah. Yeah. Where he learns the power of arcs disinflation. I think he was quoted about that story said that's where I learned the power of disinformation. Yeah. That you can just if you just and it's speaking as a toll white guy, this is some I battle with my whole life. I really like telling a good lie to people like like a like jokingly like I'll make up a fact about history or something like in the love seat it to a friend, and you hear him tell it in like a party or something. And it's it's a really funny joke for just you. You're not a great thing to do. But if you're confident in you have the right sort of look in this society, at least because it works, particularly well in the United States, the same reason why like if you've got a mixed race group of people and someone has to go talk to the cops. You pick the guy who looks like me. Yeah. I go talk to the cops. And I it's it's it's fine. I think Roger stone had that realization and decided to make that his whole life rather. Than be like what if I just made some jokes at parties? Yeah. It's it's such a bizarre thing. Like you. If this was a show about a nice normal responsible family. There would be a massive teaching moment. That was missed. Yeah. Where like Andy Griffith sat down young Roger stone. And was like, well, I know you won that classroom election. But you know, here's why it's bad. The light of everyone union. It's like winning a beauty pageant by going topless. Like it's against the rules. Yeah. Can't do that. Yeah. Oh, roger. Okay. So it is entirely possible that that anecdote is a lie. I do want to note that because we're talking about Roger stone. And every time we talk about it literally one hundred percent of the things in this. There's multiple versions of sure. So I have tried to coal the versions of reality that coincide the most with what I can back up with objective facts. And multiple people have said, but like if you do your own research on Roger stone, you'll run into different variations of everything here because I think he's just been lying consistently for about seventy years hundred percent agree. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a negative version of one of my favorite. My Angelou quotes where she says people may not remember what you do or say. But they'll always remember how you made them feel. Yeah. And he he'll make people the right people feel the right way, regardless of if mission is true or false or damaging or hurtful or even leads divide. Yes, doesn't care. He just does not care who. So Roger did start out supporting JFK, which basically everyone did as an interesting note nineteen sixty one we do surveys like the pew and whatnot do surveys, unlike people's level of trust in government, nineteen sixty one is the peak in American history of people trusting the federal government. So so weird that like everybody's on board with JFK in this election. Now, Roger stone claims that his personal political ideology took a rightward turn for the first time at age eleven when he read bury gold waters, the conscience of a conservative very Goldwater for those of you who don't know was the kind of the Trump before Trump. I think he was a better at appealing to like intellectual conservatives than Donald Trump was, but he, you know, the reason that like you're not supposed to a psychiatrist psychoanalyze a presidential candidates called the Goldwater rule because like so many people thought he was crazy when he's running. So this guy's book is what like lights a spark. In. Roger stone's brain at age eleven we next year. He started volunteering or the Goldwater campaign at age twelve so he's like a very young volunteer for this hard right presidential candidate. And while he's doing all that he comes across a book called a Texan looks at Linden. Now, this book was self published by self-described ultra conservative named J F at Haley Haley argues that LBJ was a lifelong criminal and a murderer. Roger stone would go under write his own book about LBJ's role in the Kennedy assassination accusing the former president of at least eight murders. She says, oh, yeah. Yeah. It's it's a nutso book. Not that. I don't think LBJ had some people murdered because he was LBJ. He definitely did. But this is why you see the start of like two things that are going to be through lines. And Roger stone's live here. One of them is of course, hard right conservatism. And one of them is really likes conspiracy theories, which is probably how he's gonna wind up in the info wars orbit a little later in the story. So young Roger spent a lot of his childhood alone in reading this period of time. Seems to have crystallized the ideology that would carry him through to the rest of his life quote from Roger will you have to understand. There were no kids my age, male or female for twenty five miles. I suppose it could have thrown a football with my dad, but my old man left at five AM and came back at nine pm, but he ate his supper and felt a bed and he was covered with grease from head to foot and he never complained a day in his life. You have to amuse yourself is the way Roger tells a story and kind of how he presents his show, Americana. Yeah. Yeah. So it is my dad never talked to me because he was working all the time. And this is good. He never complain that he didn't have time to raise a child. How can you tell that story? And not be like, I me that's not a healthy culture mean that's not ideal. Like anyway, stone amused himself by engaging in politics as often as possible, he volunteered for the Goldwater campaign at age twelve as I said, but he also stayed active in his schools political process near the New York Times as a junior then vice president of his northern Westchester high school. He manipulated the ouster of the president and his own succession running for reelection. As a senior I left nothing to chance. He said, I built alliances and put all my serious challengers on my ticket than I recruited the most unpopular guy in the school to run against me. You think that's mean? No, that's smart. So yeah, when he was thirteen Roger stone's started taking the train into New York City on weekends to volunteer for the mayoral campaign of William F, Buckley junior that campaign did not work out. But the experience of traveling from small town America into its largest city to work in politics had an impact on young Roger as well. Quote. The key thing I remember about Louis borough has small hometown is that it was just across the border from new Canaan so early on. I saw myself as living in a kind of bridge between two cultures the white working class and the white upper class. Very specific about white there. Yeah. Yeah. Now stone believed both groups fundamentally hated the government. So they were natural bedfellows. Should all be able to get on board of this? Whether or not we're poor or rich white people that white people is pretty clearly sure. Angling towards now nineteen seventy stone senior Europe high school. He attended the Connecticut state young Republican convention, the younger publicans were more conservative than the mainstream of the party at that time. They're trying to push the party further to the right Roger hadn't been able to afford to book a hotel room for his trip. So he'd showed up just sort of assuming he could meet someone and convince them to take care of it stones best friend at the time guy named Dolan introduced him to another teenage young Republican named Paul Manafort. Yeah. Really is. Yeah. Villain origins. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy these young guys. Meaning they're both wearing ill-fitting suits. Nobody's got a lot of money at I knew he was involved in politics, really young. But my God seven from the age of seven, I know his family had to be involved in this like tick kinda like directionally at least push them in a direction at seven years old. He doesn't talk about that not that I found. So you think you got one or two possibilities? Either his mom and dad were both way more political than he lets on. And he was pushed in that direction or he didn't have much supervision at all in way, more white collar, by the way. Yeah. Way more white collar changes. His story makes them a little bit less likable, especially if there's more money in the picture and talk about how many guys at work at oil rigs while he's in a farm, miles, wells wells. Yeah. Miles and miles away from neighbors where his family's going you should get into politics. Yeah. There. There's holes in the story. He's making mythology. He's definitely making mythology. And again, this is the picture he wants to maybe didn't fuck do anything. But he was never involved in young. I I don't know where we're trusting Roger Fisher. And it's why I've seen pictures of him as a young Republic. Yeah. That stuff is real this stuff is definitely real once we get to where he's in high school. And he's with like Manley that stuff there's a lot of people. But like when he's talking about being eleven twelve years old and stuff like who knows? Yeah. Yeah. This might just be the image. He wants to sure, you know. Anyway, here's how the Washington Post wrote about the first meeting of Roger stone and Paul Manafort, I'm just gonna say the greatest friendship of all time. Hey, kid, how you doing stone recalled Manafort saying before getting down to sussing out. Why are you supporting weaker Manafort was referring to low a weaker a moderate Republican candidate for US Senator Manafort clearly was testing the kid you think I give a fuck about weaker. I'm here to elect Mesko stone shot back meaning Thomas Meskel a conservative gubernatorial candidate in mired by youthful Republicans. So that's like how they get started is like manafort's like you like this fucking rhino Republican name owning only stones like, no, I only like the crazy people. Like, that's where I wanna go is like the furthest, right? We can possibly so. Bizarre. Yeah. So Roger stone, Paul Manafort were instant buddies and would be not quite inseparable, but frequent collaborators over the next like thirty some odd years. How old were they at this point? They would have been like seventeen eighteen just just baby. Yeah. Their babies be at their personalities held firm. I've too strong opinions here one of them is that you shouldn't be able to join the military unless you thirty and the other is that you shouldn't. Be allowed to participate in any kind of politics until you're kid. You start doing drugs when you're twenty Twenty-one. Amen. Yeah. Yeah. Let's give him nine years of experimenting take without ingredients. You know what? I mean, make people make these huge moral decisions before they've lived life. You're absolutely right. There's you look at this stuff. Ben Shapiro is reading when he seventeen he's like advocating war crimes Neff ghanistan. Don't let a seventeen year old right about politics. You know, how fucked up that? It's so crazy. Yeah. I mean, that's how we get Paul Manafort, Roger stone. So in addition to the young Republicans stone joined the teenage Republicans, the college Republicans and young Americans for freedom might have noticed theme there. He became tightly wound up in Republican party politics enough. So that in nineteen seventy two the year of president Richard Nixon's reelection campaign nineteen year old Roger stone was selected to be one of Nixon's henchman. Now stone was the youngest member of the committee to re elect the president literally known by the acronym creep, which. Does nobody like checked on this stuff? Nixon just as like side of the creek. That's good. That's what we call it. Go commit crimes. Stone recommended that creep higher guy named Theodor Brill who was a college classmate, and friend of his he recommended that creep pay Brill one hundred fifty dollars to spy on radical groups stone claims that his worked for creep was all kid stuff. None of which was legal at the time and all of which would have been done with or without him, unfortunately for Roger stone. But fortunately for the concept of truth. The FBI was keeping tabs on him back then to there exists on this hellish internet of ours. A website called property of the people. They host government documents retrieved by foia requests, and the like they had a Superfund article, titled FBI documents on Roger stone, reveal sabotage espionage and the life of a serial bag, man. I got I'm going into an a death spiral. Right. After this is a great website. Yeah. Well, check him out. Please do now my favorite thing about that title is that Roger worked for Nixon as a literal bag man in one point taking a sack containing a jar of money to donate on behalf of Republican. Presidential candidate Paul McCloskey to the young socialist results. Dimes and quarters. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just a jar change in a sack. So he donates on behalf of this Republican presidential candidate, Paul McCloskey to the young socialist association stone claimed that he was the young socialist associations treasurer now this was all a lie, obviously designed to make McCloskey look bad torpedo his chances of primary. Ing Nixon the original FBI documents about this dirty trick or interesting because they give us some insight into the precise nature of young. Roger stone's moral compass, quote, stone met with porter in his office at creep where porter asked him if he would be willing to travel to Manchester to make a cash contribution to the mcclosky campaign headquarters Puerto wanted stone to disguise himself as a member of the gay liberation movement. When making this contribution stone flatly rejected this proposal. However, he concurred with the basic theme of this tactic. So basically that's Roger stone's line at age nineteen. Yes, I I'll pretend to be a young social. List, but not a member of the galas. Unbelievable. I mean, you see the pattern right? You see the pattern from such a young age. He's like I see the power of disinformation. Yeah. And then fast forward a decade later, and he still doing the doing the same thing in the same shit. Did you ever see seven up the British documentary? No, it's amazing. It was like one of the first reality shows, and they interviewed kids at seven years old and then at fourteen and then at twenty one and then twenty every seven years. Wow. Now, they're in their sixties. Oh, wow. They've been doing it the whole time, but it was a study on social classes. Yeah. And the interesting thing they found is when wealthy kids were seven years old. And they asked him what he want to be. They were really specific. They're like I'm going to Cambridge on being a barrister bubble all this stuff. And they did. Whereas the kids in the poor neighborhoods. Like, I'm going to be a space, man. Yeah. Or like, I'm going to be a truck. I don't know. One of human was so keys one of those where they knew such an early age. They were just and he doesn't pick. I wanna be in politics. He picks. I wanna be a dirty tricks guy. Politics. Like, I would be like the filthiest version of a political guy. It's it's remarkable that that's his only ambition in life ever. Yeah. Now, a researcher named ima best found ten separate document releases from the F B I, all which mentioned Roger stone. According to property of the people's right up, quote, the documents detail Roger stone's role is a bag man for the Nixon campaign, which he pulled over twenty five thousand dollars equivalent to one hundred fifty thousand dollars in twenty eighteen to fund political intelligence gathering and other dirty tricks, including Mowlam bedding and a mysterious payment related to the Watergate break-in. The documents include a copy of the FBI's interview with stone as well as other statements to the bureau about stone, and Jason Reynier the alias stone used for his anti-democratic spy operations, so stone paid another operative the modern equivalent of sixty grand surveillance, sabotage the campaigns of Nixon's democratic rivals after the Watergate break ins, he put together a payment of almost a hundred grand and modern dollars for an oil executive Nixon fundraiser named Darius Keaton far from being minor acts of political. Malfeasance as stone sort of presented them. Roger stone seems to have been an enthusiastic and prolific dirty trickster. Happy to do almost anything for Richard Nixon quote in one case stone sent two hundred Democrats invitations to a non existent primary campaign breakfast in another stone directed democratic campaign literature intended for the black community to be sent to union workers and literature intended for union workers to be sent to the black community. And yet another stone saw to it that phone lines used by democratic primary campaign were tampered with this resulted democratic failure to connect with many potential voters will other. Yeah. So well, this is the way he works. He works at age nineteen you know, what's interesting about him twos. He never as big as ego. God for guy whose dad never talked to him. He always looked to another man to please. Yeah. He never said. I'm going to be president. No, he never chase it himself. He was always I'm going to please, dad. Yeah. He all he's always picked a bigger manned allies, which for most of his life has been Nixon a bigger than life, man. And even now imitate. It's Nixon with the peace signs that throws up of this weird ass Winky arms. It seems like he's a case study for like a broken brain like a father son fracture. I mean, you know to get real here this podcast behind the bastards because just as well be called daddy issues. But really almost one hundred percent of these guys had real fucked up times with their fathers like I don't they just strip like everybody else. You know, Roger stone actually might have been able to do that. He's a bodybuild self-proclaimed. We'll know if you've seen I've seen shirtless pictures of monies young he was reasonably swell, even in his late forties, really fit looking guy. And if you see the modern pictures of his back tattoo, you can see in the building shoulder really broad Bill. He could've stripped shirt, which is a noble and honest career. I spent I worked with real bodybuilders at gold's gym. He his cemeteries all off he's got like baby calves. We realize faces. Weird's phases. Weird. His hairs everything's where they all have weird hair. It's like Paul Manafort where spend a hundred thousand dollars on suits that look like hundred dollar suits just to just to know that it's I dunno. They're a weird guys. And that's fine unless you ruining the world which case, it's exactly yeah. Now, all the unfathomable shadiness of Richard Nixon's. Reelection campaign led to congressional hearings in nineteen seventy three during those hearings. Roger stone's secret. Identity is Jason Reynier young socialist became public. Knowledge was also revealed that stone had hired someone to spy on the McGovern campaign at the time of the hearing stone had gotten a job on Bob Dole staff. He was fired for this seems to have taken the job losses a sign that a man of his temperament was better served by working as a consultant than working for the government in two thousand eight interview with the New Yorker, titled the dirty trickster stone reminisced about his time with creep and justified his actions by saying the Democrats were week we were strong. He was by the way, the youngest person caught up in the Watergate. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is a they they had one one of the charts in the core. The show that he'd taken money. Yeah. Yeah. That's how he starts his career. So in the mid nineteen seventies after Nixon's impeachment. The Republican party was most assuredly not strong stone seems to have elected not to waste his time on the doomed presidency of Gerald Ford. History's greatest monster. Instead he worked to insinuate himself ever deeper into the right wing organizations that clustered around the GOP Paul Manafort on the other hand made the air of backing Gerald Ford in the nineteen seventy six elections when Ford loss did did serious damage to manafort's reputation as a political strategist Pryatta Ford's loss he'd been the clear pick for president of the young Republicans. Clear prick. Oh, I'm glad that you did. You know, what that works? Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. No. Yeah. So we're gonna we're gonna talk about what happens after Gerald Ford's fall from grace is the wrong word on the. He was ever quiet there. Yeah. Yeah. We'll we'll get into that. But I are you a fan of some products share servicer to sure. Well, that's what is happening. Now, let's pay the bills. Adds time. Hi, I'm Robert host of behind the bastards. And if you're a fan of my podcast, then like me, you probably suck it money. If so you should check out the new podcast how to money toasted by best friends, Matt and Joel two neighbors who know a lot about money and money hacks and are gonna sit down and explain to you how to be better with your personal finances on their Superfund podcast how to money so check out how to money listen to it on the stuff network wherever fine podcasts are hosted. We're back. We just produced some products and services to few services. I'm feeling good. Already today back in here. I love the economical energy. It's perfect. I'm I got three things to say about economics. Okay. Back to this podcast. To jail that words, Paul Manafort was suddenly persona. Non grata amongst the young Republican in intelligencia, whatever you wanna call showing either a surprising amount of loyalty to his friend or just confidence that Manafort would eventually wind up on top. Roger stone worked with congressional aide. Charlie black on a scheme stone ran for president of the young Republicans winning and basically acting as a a stand in for Paul Manafort to preserve his access to the halls of power. So you see Roger stone, basically agreeing to become a figurehead leader of this party. So that Paul Manafort can continue to have influence, which is you don't run into a lot of things Bridgestone doing something for someone else. It's so true. It's so interesting his career. There's been so many times or he's been fired. But kept as an adviser. Yeah. So outside of all the trickster stuff. He really is legit political strategist. Well, that is actually the question we're going to have to answer over the course of both parts of this podcast is whether or not he's actually any good because it's kind. Of a mystery. He certainly has managed to stay in contact to a lot of power people over the years the question of whether or not he actually did very much is really hard to answer. So we're going to we're going to dig into that here. Okay. So Manafort blackened stone all worked on Ronald Reagan's nineteen eighty presidential campaign. Roger stone managed the northeast United States and earned acclaim for successfully turning much of that region against the Democratic Party during that election he did. So by appealing to groups who are committed democratic voters black and Hispanic people Jewish people and Catholics stone had stayed in touch with Richard Nixon because he just loved the guy so much and he was successful at bringing the former president and definite criminal in as a strategist for the Reagan campaign. Nixon is purported to put together the Ohio strategy, which is less impressive than it. Sounds it boiled down to spending a shitload of money in Ohio for its twenty five electoral votes. Stone would later make a big deal out of this essentially as a way of reinforcing his reputation as a political kingmaker, but Ronald Reagan won forty nine states in that election. So. It's kinda doubtful that the Ohio strategy and specific did that much. He didn't really need Hieaux. It was kind of a blow out still Roger destoned had performed well in a winning presidential campaign. He was offered a sweet gig in the Reagan administration. But turned it down saying, quote, I would never take a job in government. I'm interested in politics while that's what pieces of shit say. Yeah. Yeah. In one thousand nine hundred eighty Roger stone and his friends also letting us now. Yeah. And we think that they play is not the game that we recognize. No, he's not about beliefs. It's about winning and preserving access to power, Honey and stuff, you know. I'm I'm sure every one of Mr. Roger has one or two things he believes in but to call him like ideologically a Republican or anything else now. Yeah. He believes Roger stone's should be influential. Yeah. Libertarian now. He's been claiming that for a while fairness, and that is a vague enough ideology might say exactly Roger stone's show. It's it's open ended enough. Like, yeah, you probably are Roger called meals. The one party that hasn't rejected him. Yup. That need him more than any other party problem. No. I mean, they he and John McAfee could make a powerful presidential combo. Don't scare me McAfee stone. Twenty twenty enough hair out of my head the last two years combined twenty indictments between us don't eat more. Nightmares? Oh god. It's it's crazy that that would almost be an upgrade, you know. It would be would be at least I'm pretty sure they can both spell. We don't need to get political in this political podcast about politics. Remember, we're not interested in government. We're interested. Wait. Sure. What? Roger stone's set troop, Trump doesn't govern. He's still campaigning. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's he's never stopped campaigning. Yeah. Although in a little bit of fairness, that's kind of how being president works. Now. Like, you're always running until he's done it because level I never seen. Yeah. But I feel like it just gets escalated every single like the fundraising that starts the year after the election like that. You know, there's a lot to say about, you know, the compromise. Obama made in the Affordable Care Act in order to not get a shitload of insurance industry money thrown against his campaign twenty twelve which is like at least more principled than anything Trump's done. But like there's a lot of gross problems in politics. Yeah. Speaking of which Roger stone perfect say. In one thousand nine hundred Roger stone, and his friends formed black Manafort stone, a lobbying organization spy magazine would later declare the torturers lobby. You'll wanna listen to our two parter on Paul Manafort, if you're interested in that story because while Paul instantly, abandoned beltway politics to work for dictators. Roger stay burrowed deep within the warm cash-rich bosom of the Republican party. So stone makes money off of these. We talk a lot in the Manafort episode. There's guys like the Marcos regime Mobutu Sese Seko in Zaire, and there's a bunch of different dictators that Paul Manafort worked directly with during this period of time. Roger stone is making profits off of that. And I I'm sure he has some degree because they're having meetings regularly and stuff. So I'm sure he has some input here. But it really is Manafort who's doing the direct work with these dictators and stone and black are more involved in domestic politics in the United States. But yeah, so he's profiting off of murderers, but he's not working with them to this. Same extent that Manafort is for whatever it's worth Manafort is an objectively worse person, Roger stone. Now Roger stone became known during the nineteen eighties as the gatekeeper to Richard Nixon, which is a debatable honor. He hosted the series of dinner parties and interviews with the now elder statesman right up until the president's death in nineteen ninety four in that New Yorker interview Roger made what I think is an unintentionally hilarious statement quote. The reason I'm Nick Knight is because of his indestructible and resilience never quit. His whole career was all built around his personal resentment of elitism is the poor me syndrome. John F Kennedy's father bottom is how seat is Senate seat in the presidency. Knowing about Nixon, anything Nixon resented that. He was very class conscious. He identified with the people who ate TV dinners watched Laurence Welk and love their country. I love this. Because literally the most famous thing Nixon did was quit being president, exactly. Listen to quit. And also saying no one ever bought him anything when it was your job to by people for Nixon during the reelection campaign. That was literally what you did Roger this. And he like, the creator of the super PACS like he's one of the he's he's the of that of lobbying like black Manafort and stone was the first really modern lobbying firm of cancer in our political system because in addition to helping dictators lobby the US government for foreign aid. They kind of invented the idea of working with both sides elections. All no matter who wins. We've got someone who can then sell access to like unbelievable. Yeah. We go into a lot of detail about in the Manafort podcast. It's American it's anti everything. But the couple of dozen people who make money off of it. It's I don't know why the Republican party attacks only people on who isn't isn't made in America. But the Democratic Party doesn't enough attack people who isn't made of America. It's so un-american what he's doing. It's against the policies of the. People that founded this country. Well, I mean, the only correction I might say is that like, it's what you and I don't want to be American. But there's a lot of people who want it to be American, and that's like the great conflict of our time. Well, if all of us voted, I think they vote my like if the number I think the numbers are on our democratic side. I would agree. But twenty sixteen taught us the numbers ain't nearly everything. They ought to be. Yeah. Yeah. In Roger stone is probably one of those people who like Mitch McConnell does not want there to be a federal voting holiday. Yeah. Yeah. Amen. Your he's terrified of that. Got people vote. Yeah. Yeah. I also love Roger stone's embrace of like how down to earth Nixon is considering the Roger stone is a man so infamous for his love of expensive clothing that he calls suspenders braces. Which dude, dude? I know he swept chimneys when he was five. Braces raises these British. It's like, yeah. I got a whole rant about waistcoats. Invest that's not this is not the place for that. But nineteen eighty-five Roger stone's reputation as a series political player seemed to be fairly solid. I found a new Republic article from December of that year that referred to him as the on Terry of northeastern politics. Yeah. Quote, stone is widely credited with making the difference in Thomas canes narrow victory in the nineteen Eighty-one New Jersey governors race. This was a chief by portraying the liberal Republican contender as a conservative supply-sider stone convince keen to campaign on the promise of a tax cut once elected keen, raise taxes, yellow convinced prominent friends like Kemp to television spots for Kane assuring him victory in the Republican primary. I don't advocate candidates changing their positions. Just trimming their sales. Stone says I do have principals. Oh now that sounds like Roger now stone bragged that he had created a plan to basically build a permanent Republican majority in New Jersey back in nineteen eighty-five. You may note that that did not work out entirely. But as the new Republic article made clear stone. Greatest, and perhaps only real gift was in dropping negative dirt on his rivals to the press. What is an expert at dropping stuff? Unfavorable to his opponent says a political writer who has used and been used by stone for years, and he is very accurate. You don't last long that game? If you leak bullshit. So this does seem to be one of the through lines of his career. He had like outside of the dirty tricks and stuff thing he's really good at is figuring out dirt on and getting it to the right person. You could it's it's the Intel inside of the Trump campaign. Yeah. He's a Pentium processor all the stuff. He says is a soft Trump's repeats the birther thing that was Roger stone. Well, it was Jerome Corsi. Who is Roger stone contact didn't Roger stone advise Trump to use that language? It's possible. I mean, he definitely will. We'll get into some more later about like what he did with Trump. But like one of the guys really responsible for king off the birther thing was Jerome Corsi who was probably Roger stone's contact with WikiLeaks. And who Roger stone had a job at info wars? And so is very. Likely that there there that was one of the anyway, but it's also possible it goes back to the same little jacuzzi. Yeah. Eight or nine it's a small apartment in New York's. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Dr responsible for fucking this democracy. So yeah, it's really remarkable. Roger was not particularly loyal to the people. He worked with which is perhaps not surprising, given black Manafort and stones reputation for working both sides of the political aisle in nineteen Eighty-four. He wound up working for Mary mockery and a New Jersey senatorial race, one of his colleagues recalled quote, Roger was characteristically badmouthing his client saying she wasn't up to it. He was being paid to say she would do well and already who's working to dissociate himself from her in Washington. Now, the article noted that stone was also famous in the beltway for bragging about the work. He'd done for Richard Nixon's campaign, David Keene lawyer and lobbyist said quote, Roger Lexi, ARA having done something bad in his past. You get the feeling that he sorry. It was so minor. He likes to say watch me. I'm a tough guy as one of the truth things. I've run. To someone saying about Roger stone. Yeah. In nineteen Ninety-six during another interview, Roger stone listed ROY Cohn. Richard Nixon and the Duke of Windsor as his biggest political idols. Now, ROY Cohn was a former McCarthy aid and famed political dirty trickster himself, the Duke of Windsor was a literal Nazi. It was right code who would later proved to be. Roger stone's liaison, the infamy and nine hundred eight while working for President Reagan's reelection campaign. Roger was given ROY cones contact information on a list of President Reagan's friends in the city since virtually olive Ronald's friends were dead. And since Roger was a big cone fan. He reached out to the elder craftsman for some advice would cone told him would set into motion a series of events that have irrevocably altered the course of all life on this planet, ROY comb told Roger you should talk to this guy. Fred Trump and his son Donald now, Trump had met at a members only Manhattan club called creatively. The club back in nineteen seventy three according to Washington monthly quote. He Trump asked cone the government is just filed suit against our company saying that we discriminated against blacks. What do you think? I should do cone advised him to tell them to go to hell and fight the thing in court, and let them prove you discriminated. It's out Donald had hired Cohn to represent them and cone became something of a mentor to Trump as well. He taught the future president number. Of things including his lessons on legal conflict lessons like this. No matter. What happens? No matter how deep in the muck you get claim victory and never admit defeat. Yeah. Now stone met with Donald and wound up getting one hundred thousand dollars out of him for mono Reagan's reelection campaign. Christine Seymour who worked for cone as a switchboard operator wrote in her notebook at the time about how stone referred to Donald Trump quote. Roger did not like Donald Trump or his new house told me they were losers. But if ROY used them he would too. So this depiction of events put forward by Washington monthly is not consistent with other descriptions of the beginning of the Trump stone relationship is one of the many things there's debate about an NPR interview with Morgan pay me or Pame one of the directors of the documentary. Get me Roger stone put forward this version of events. Instead, quote, Roger was the first person to suggest to Donald Trump that he should run for the presidency back in nineteen eighty seven. Then he spent the next twenty nine years cultivating Trump's candidacy until he was triumphant. I think he believed from day one that Trump was a legitimate. Candidate. Now, certainly Trump's previous flirtations with running for the president. It's hard to look at anything other than publicity stunts, but Roger was always dead serious about the effectiveness that Trump could conveys a candidate. Now stone himself put for this version of events as recently as two thousand sixteen when he was interviewed on the floor of the Republican national convention. Convince presidents. You convince onto right provides started in nineteen eighty eight that is true. You were there. I'm trying to trying to get him to run for a long time. Trying to get run eighty eight tried to get him running two thousand and get running twelve he could've beat Romney. Although Romney had long star you push that. Alan. So it's hard to say where the truth lies here to my thoughts. I think the cone switchboard operator is probably closer to accurate that all this stuff about Roger stone, recognizing Donald was a perfect presidential candidate is a lie. It was kind of like everything else in his career. He just sort of went with things as they rolled and certainly in nineteen eighty four when he met Donald on the much respect for the guy, and there's evidence that Trump didn't like him very much either until pretty recently, but you know, going into more of that later now in nineteen Ninety-six, the National Enquirer published an expose on. Roger stone stone had been posting ads in a number of swingers, magazines and websites. I heard about he and his wife Stearns touch on wanted. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He and his wife were looking for single men and couples to join the group sex stone described himself as a bodybuilder there's a lot of detail on stones love life that I'm not gonna get into here. Because I I don't really care. I don't think that's anybody's business like genetic. They weren't like molesting kids or. Anything? They just doing weird sex. That's fine. But the uproar over all this forced Roger stone's retire from Bob Dole's presidential campaign. Roger initially denied the rumors claiming I that they'd been placed to frame him. And then that some help at his house like basically like a cleaning lady or something had like leaked this stuff to the press to discredit him or whatever. But he later admitted that the ads were his and that he'd only denied them because his grandparents were still alive at the time. He cheerfully admitted from nineteen Ninety-six on to being a libertarian and a libertine in an interview about all this. He also said some very strange things about famous homosexual and aids victim ROY Cohn. Well, ROY was not gave he was a man who liked having sex with men gays were weak effeminate. He always seemed to have these young blonde boys around. It just wasn't discussed. He was interested in power and access. He told me his absolute goal was to die completely broken owing millions to the IRS he succeeded in that. You just want to note that Roger has reiterated several times that ROY Cohn is his idol and the person he aspires to be like she thinks he's gay. I doubt that he's bisexual. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe dipping toes. It's such a bizarre. I'm always fascinated by people who are hardcore Republican staunch Republicans who don't live the life at all. But then you go. Okay. Well, the he's just doing whatever he needs to do to win. Yeah. I mean, you doesn't matter. You've got that staunch economic wing of the party a lot of whom you know, are super socially like whatever like can meet him at like kinky eyes wide shut fuck party. Never know that they're like supply-side economics guys. You don't want it. Confused me. Yeah. Because I thought he might have empathy. No, no. That's what normal human being has. And it would be hard with someone with empathy to to participate in a gay lifestyle. And then do things that hurt gay people. Well, I don't I don't know what the stone ever did. But that's certainly good criticism of ROY Cohn because he was a big batch of of the Reagans the worst presidents in history for gay picture, you know, and county. In the aids epidemic. Like, yeah. But when we get back, we're gonna talk about Donald Trump's first presidential campaign, and how Roger stone helped make that a reality. But I the only reality listeners of this podcast. Need is the reality of the wonderful products and services that support this program, and or content module? If you haven't checked out my new series the end of the world with Josh Clark. The now's a great time to start the holidays are over the doldrums of winter had begun. And there's no better time to explore existential dread than right now. But wait, there's more to the end of the world than that. Yes. The series is about exit -sential risks. But it's also about hope the threats that are coming our way that could wipe humans right out of existence. Could also be just the thing that makes us band together. In a way that humanity never has before in the end of the world. I take you on a journey across time and space from the moment and asteroid collided with earth and set off a chain of events that wiped out the dinosaurs to the post biological future where we live in a digital format. If we don't already we'll explore big questions like whether we're alone in the universe and exactly how artificial intelligence could take control of our world from us. It also has a beautiful score and cinematic sound design. So it's an. Adventure for your mind. Which is just the thing to snap. You out of the winter blondes all ten episodes of the end of the world with Josh Clark are available for you to binge now on apple podcasts the iheartradio app or wherever you get podcast. We're back. So a little bit earlier we were talking about sort of the competing theories about win. Roger stone wanted dump Trump to run for election and the guy who did the get me. Roger stone documentary was like he saw him as a serious candidate from from the beginning. Always even though the the first campaigns weren't all that serious. Roger believes it him. This story is why I think that's bullshit. So in nineteen ninety nine Roger stone got another chance to help a Republican presidential candidate. And finally make use of this friend Donald Trump that year, Pat Buchanan announced that he would be running for president under the Reform Party ticket this worried Republicans because third party candidates are always scary. We're dealing with that right now with Schultz in, you know, the democratic primaries and stuff so Rogers strategy was to neutralize Pat Buchanan by using Donald Trump to run against him from the left Roger head Trump embraced gun control and universal healthcare as well. As cues Pat Buchanan of being a Hitler lover, which is actually kind of fair Trump dropped out soon after but the campaign did its job as the weekly staff. Matt Labus wrote a weakened Buchanan went on to help the Reform Party implode. Republicans suffered no real third party threat. So it does seem that in nineteen ninety nine. At least Donald Trump was just a convenient tool for Roger stone, not a serious presidential candidate. He represented a good way to deal with a third party candidate who might have threatened, George W Bush's election. Roger stone would go on to play another major role in the election of the man, the world would come to know as W Bush to electric blue blue and a literal war criminal stones first job to the Bush campaign was helping them win and Florida he did this by buying advertising at a number of Spanish language radio stations. He and his Cuban-American wife would show up and push a conspiracy theory, quote from Roger the idea we were putting out there was that. This was a left-wing power. Grab by gore the same way. Fidel Castro did it in Cuba. We were very explicitly dragged this analogy Al Gore to make it a violent power grab. I'll go to the dictator. I have trouble. Imagining Al Gore like even shooting three. Pointer. That's too aggressive. Al gore. I didn't even Al Gore is such a like you such a love. I I feel like he's just made to hug he was born without bones, his real hugger, no bones of that. But if a dog bit him, he wouldn't even pull his hand away. Just I'm just be like out just be like you stretched by leg. This is a problem. Oh, how gore only you'd had any charisma at all poor guy? Poor guy poor guy who would have really helped us avoid some problems. Yeah. Now during the infamous two thousand election recount, Roger stone claims to have been the organizer of the infamous Brooks brothers riot. This was essentially a bunch of Republican operatives swimming, south, Florida and Miami to protest the ongoing recounts. It's called the Brooks brothers riot. Because they all wore Brooks brothers, suits. Sure. Here's that New Yorker article quote at one point on November twenty second stone said he heard from an ally. In the building that gore supporters were trying to remove some ballots from the counting room. One of my pimple faced contact said. Two. Commissioners have taken two or three hundred dollars to the elevator. Stone said I said, okay, follow them. Have you guys? Go on the elevator and half. Go in the stairs. Everyone got sucked up in this. They were trying to keep the doors being closed. Meanwhile, they were trying to take the rest of the ballots into a back room with no windows. I told her guys to stop them. Don't let them close that door. They're trying to keep the door from being closed. There was a lot of screaming and yelling. In fact, the New Yorker notes the gore official. And the elevator. Joe Geller was carrying a single sample. Ballot. Now, the dual scenes of chaos both inside and outside. The building prompted the recount officials to stop their work. The recount Miami was never restarted depriving gore of his best chance to catch up overall state tally. So the Brooks brothers riot is pretty consistently across the board considered an important fact in Bush's winning, and you know, gore didn't they eventually get to the number is like months after people prove the gore won the popular vote never entirely, but it's pretty like. Yeah. Basically essence now Brad Blake meant a lobbyist and political consultant for the Bush campaign claims that Roger stone is lying about his involvement in this. Obviously the Brooks brothers, right? It happened. But Blake meant says Rogers just taking credit for something. He didn't do you think he'd be sued for that? Like, you know, it's not anything ranging. It should be you. That's his whole career is not a legal the Roger stone's store interfered with the democratic process, you interfered with the voting process, I have some issues with the get me Roger stone documentary. And I do think a better title would have been is that not a legal is that really? That's what might stop for a second. How does he know the law better than I don't think he does? I think he's gotten lucky enough in the past that his or maybe it was a legal what he was doing. But like nobody charged him with it. And like, I think he's he it's called the first mover advantage in essence, like if you're willing to take that you got like two animals, and there's like a food resource in between them the animal. That's most likely to go for it. You know, sometimes he might get challenged by the other animal, and he might get beaten up, but it's more likely that other animal back off and not want to have a fight. And so it's good to just try and lunch for the food which Roger stone. Always does. Yeah. Okay. So Brad Blake says claims he was the guy in charge of the Brooks brothers riot says, quote, Roger did not have a role that I know of his wife may have been on the radio, but I never saw heard of him which again reinforces one of the most common patterns when you talk about the life of Roger stone. It's really hard to tell if he's legitimately influential operator or just a prolific liar. I doubt most of the people who have hired him can truly tell you. Ed rollins. Former political director for Ronald Reagan told the New Yorker in two thousand eight Roger was a fringe player around town. He always had this reputation of being a guy who exaggerated things who pretended. He did things. Roger was never on Nixon staff was never on the White House staff. I don't think you'll find anyone in the business who trust him. Roger was always a little rat in a two thousand eight interview Donald Trump echoed that sentiment. Roger is a stone cold loser. He always tries taking credit for things. He never did. Everyone who writes talks about Roger stone winds up dealing with this issue. Eventually, no one can seem to agree on whether or not he's any good at his job. Even people who talk about him being a good as job at one point. We'll talk about him being a liar and a fraud at other points. I found one Washington Post article that noted quote in a post profile one Republican luminary called him the party's single best consultant and another dismissed him as one of the great all-time frauds of American politics. Sure. I mean, it's hard to praise someone who hurt you. And it might be the you know, what I mean like, I think they're part of it too. There's a lot going on all these guys. I mean, there's so many times. Where something has happened in American politics in American history. I'm like, that's crazy. Yeah. It's fraudulent. It's wrong. It's corrupt and there. He is. Yeah. He's always there. And it's it's a lot heart with like with Paul Manafort, you've got a bunch of cases where like there's this. This war going on forget the name of the dictator, but there's this war going on in like central Africa. And like the USSR's backing one side and the US is backing other side than the USSR pulled their military aid. And everyone's like, okay. The civil wars going in these guys Jonas Savimbi's the guy was backing and these guys are going to stop, and then Manafort goes directly to the federal government and lobbies and get Savimbi to continue having weapons for another ten years half a million more people dying. Okay. That's a direct thing. Paul. Manafort, did undeniably extended the length of that war by his lobbying. It's never that clear with Roger stone. There's always multiple people. So that's part of the thing. That's difficult is like Roger stone because of just the kind of dirty tricks. He gets up to is a lot slippery or or at least he wasn't. Well, recently. So that is where we're going to leave offer today when I come back. We will be talking about some things that are in arguable about Roger stone, mainly his foundational role in the Trump campaign and all of his many many many dumb crimes so Thursday the day after tomorrow. No, Sophie, we don't edit this podcast. What is time? You can't edit audio the most basic rule of this on you doing the lifting. Oh, all right listeners. I am the bastard this week because I made Sophie sad. By a t shirt on T public. It's the only thing that brings you joy is our T shirt sales t- publ UC T publicity of accent a soundbite because with t public. That's our sound by now there, you go you you feel free anytime just me going to pulled Luke. To me. Are you wanna plug your plug Ables before we can out for the next couple of minutes? Sure if you guys are looking for live comedy. Do you wanna see Arab American who grew up in east LA thrown his thoughts out? You can follow me at Tampere Catan dot com for all my shows at Tama cat on Instagram. And then of course, I'm the creator in a host and of my podcast called they tried to bury us along with my mom where we made a new immigrant every week here. They're American origin story. Check out. They try to bury us checkout. Hammer on Twitter. You can find this podcast on the internet and all of the sources buying the bastards dot com. You can find us on Twitter and the Graham as the kids call it these days at faster pod. I have a book called a brief history of ice where I hurt my friends with dangerous drugs until Thursday, Roger stone. Hi, I'm Ariel Casten. I'm Jonathan Strickland and together we're going to tell you the stories behind some of the biggest triumphs and failures in business. That's right. We're going to explore situations that tested the metal of entrepreneurs pivotal moments required making decisions we'll be talking about some big companies that everybody knows like Disney LEGO and Harley Davidson and together we try to answer the question. What do you do when you find yourself at the brink? Listen and subscribe at apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Roger stone Mr. Roger Richard Nixon president Donald Trump Senator Manafort Roger j stone Roger stone Trump United States John F Kennedy Roger Fisher Republican party Paul Manafort Roger head Trump Washington Post Roger destoned New York City President Reagan
Roger Stone 4-26-20

CATS Roundtable

13:10 min | 3 months ago

Roger Stone 4-26-20

"Hi I'm Jay Farner. Ceo of quicken loans and rocket mortgage during the challenging times were all experiencing. Our top priority is the health and safety of the communities we serve and while it's true that things are changing rapidly every day. One thing that will never change is our commitment to giving you the best mortgage experience at rocket mortgage our guiding philosophy of every client every time no exceptions. No excuses exists for times like right now. We understand that hardships may arise. And we're prepared to help if you currently work with us and need assistance with your mortgage contact US twenty four seven at rocket mortgage dot com as we all think about ways to save money. Let me remind you that. Mortgage rates are near historic lows. If you think right now is the right time to refinance your mortgage our home. Loan experts are available to help you twenty four hours a day seven days a week at rocket mortgage dot com call for cost information and conditions equal housing lender licensed fifty states and MLS consumer access dot. Org Number thirty thirty. Good Morning America. This is the cats round table. John Cats Matiz here. What's going on? Well you know I went to school. I was you're innocent until proven guilty. This gentleman here has been proven guilty. And he's innocent. His name is Roger. Stone I know him for a long time. I kick say with good French because we've never got to dinner together. A Roger deserves the ability to tell the truth. And what's going on? Good Morning Roger Stone. How you Roger John? It's great to be with. You WanNa tell you just last week. The New York Post had four different stories about incredible news breaking interviews. You have the cats round two so you are setting the world on fire. I'm delighted to be here. Well you know I don't you know I don't have to worry about a paycheck. I don't have to worry about making any executives happy. I just worry about telling the truth. Well it's a great forum to do that. I must tell you my the last sixteen months of my life really the last two years of my life. They've almost been Kafka ask. I have to pinch myself believing that this can happen to any American. But when you are targeted for strictly political reasons by a vengeful political motivated special counsel and when their allies in the fake news media have a two year drumbeat telling the American people Roger Stone will be indicted for treason Roger Stone. We'll be indicted for espionage. Roger still won't be indicted for money laundering. Roger Stone will be indicted for cybercrimes. Roger Stone was the link between the Russians and the trump campaign and then they indict you after all of the the Invasive run through of all your emails all your text messages all your phone calls for two years. Finding no evidence of any of those things they indict you for lying to Congress about the trump campaign's interested wittily wikileaks which was a matter of public record announced by Donald Trump himself on a hundred and forty two occasions in September and October. It was a hit job. I think most Americans know that And then what they do is they break you financially. The financial costs of defending yourself man. I spent two million dollars. That was not mind two million dollars. I raised from sixty five thousand great Americans and trump supporters across the country Or I would never have been able to afford a lawyer but they also get you so that when the New York Times smears you on page one or wine. Cnn says you're about to be indicted for tax evasion. You have no way to respond. You're not allowed to comment even on social media. You're not allowed to go on the cat's roundtable or any show and defend yourself. I just to me. It seems un-american but but that is what I have lived through And then you know I I learned when I get into the DC circuit. Jury system. That I'm not going to be judged by a jury of my peers. I'm going to be judged by people who admit in their jury selection process that they despise donald trump that they want him removed in one case is all supporters are racist assigned a fair trial. I did not get a fair trial. I'm not sure I could ever have gotten one in DC but it. It wouldn't matter if I had Clarence Darrow representing me I. I'm not sure I could have been acquitted given this. It is so hard to believe that our country has gotten down that situation. Where things like that happen in In Federal Court. It's just so very hard to believe but it happened. It happened to you. I mean the FBI. Tell people how do you? I mean you've never been arrested in your life and tell them how they came to pick you up. I'll never even had a parking ticket. I've never even had a speeding ticket. So there's the press speculated for a year that my indictment for treason. Treason was imminent. That I was colluding with the Russians. John my relatives were mowed down by Soviet tanks in Budapest in nineteen fifty six I. I'm half on Gary in half and Talion I ate Russia's just to be clear so but this constant drumbeat muller focuses on Stone Muller's surrounding Stone Muller about to take down stone. You know every week week after week. And then I January twenty fourth. My lawyers spoke to the special counsel's office. They know I was represented. They know I had an able lawyer on the morning of January. Twenty fifth. Seventeen armored vehicles arrived at my home at six o'clock in the morning. Twenty nine heavily armed swat team clad. Fbi agent surrounded my home. There was a government helicopter overhead. There was a canine unit of dogs. I guess in case They thought I was going to flee which was unrealistic. They brought a battering ram up to the front doors. If I wasn't going to open the door they bang on the door saying. Fbi come out your ends up just like out of movie. I Open the door and they say are you on your show and I say they said we have a warrant for your arrest and we have a warrant for the search of these premises. Please step outside and put your hands behind your back. They handcuffed me. I'm wearing a Roger Stone if nothing wrong picture of my dad and they march me out to the front of the street. Stand there in my shorts barefoot and a t-shirt handcuffed and just wait then they go upstairs. They rouse my wife out of bed. She's hearing impaired without her hearing a she could hear nothing. It really dawned on me. What if they shout some order to her and she doesn't hear them or doesn't understand. It makes a false move in the shooter. I mean I was scared to death until they brought her out in her nightclubbing. Inner bare feet to stand next to me. Ten feet away. They took away both of our cell phones. Needless to say I asked to see my lawyer. They said well you'll see him later. I asked what charges against me were. They said that they would show them to me on the way the FBI folks. But the worst part John was the camera crew from CNN. Twenty five feet from my doors. That captured the whole thing. I now know the street has been sealed for an hour muller called the CNN team. Think Clo- anybody else so that's exactly right they deny that but the FBI refuses to turn over all their emails with CNN. In the weeks before I was arrested. There's a lawsuit pending judicial. Watch to get that material which were entitled to but they refused deterrent over. No other media was allowed and I now know for mostly security camera footage. Cnn arrived exactly eleven minutes before the FBI and set up their Camera Fox eleven twelve minutes later the FBI shows up and they're allowed to film the entire public humiliation now. The point of course is all. They had to tell my lawyer that day before. We're bringing charges against your client. We please turn himself in now with government's response to why they did this by the way. The taxpayer pay one point one million dollars for this rate their explanation as to why they did this is stone was a flight risk. Really I don't have a valid passport. I don't own a gun and I have the most recognizable muggy in America. Thanks to CNN. Where was I going to go? I live on a canal but it got to be honestly. I can't swim. Where was I going to go? So then They took me off to To be fingerprinted and most shotted In the meantime they set up tenths and a big truck in my front yard and eight for the next thirteen hours. They made my wife sit in the corner where she couldn't touch her fall. She had to have a female agent. Accompany her to the bathroom and they tore through every square inch of my home just tore it to shreds. If there was a picture hanging on the wall they would cut out the back of the of the framing to see something that was hidden inside. They went through every single book in the House. Take the book out of the Shelf on through to make sure there's nothing hidden throw it on the floor. It was a shambles. It was a disaster. My grandchildren keep calling their grandmother. But she can't answer the fall they're watching. Tv they're scared to death. It was something out of Nazi Germany. It was something you might expect in the Soviet Union but not in America they also raided my apartment in New York they also raided my office in Fort Lauderdale. Same deal rip the place apart. You know what they found nothing whatsoever. That's what they had already lied to a couple federal judges together a search for we have evidence of money laundering by Roger. So don't they did? There is no such thing didn't exist. We have evidence of CYBERCRIME. No they didn't so I I would argue that. They defrauded the court to even get their search warrants. What they had was my twitter feed and my twitter feed was based on public information and a couple of very solid tips. That I got that turned out to be exactly right. The the wikileaks. Disclosures did come in October and they were out. I never said I knew the content or source of them. I didn't so it was. It was a horrific experience. Then take me to the courthouse where they put me in a holding cell with three African American gentleman. I was held there for three hours. By the time I left. I guarantee you all reopens trump supporters. They take me out to be arraigned in shackles. Hand and foot. I plead guilty and then the government asks for no cash bon meaning. I wasn't a flight risk. They knew I wasn't a flight risk. They just proved it I came out and spoke to the press. I gave the iconic V for victory sign. Just try to demonstrate to my friends and family and supporters that they had not crushed by spirit. I said I would plead not guilty when I didn't know at that. Time was my chances of winning. A verdict virtually impossible because the judge would systematically rule out any powerful line of defense. So I believe I was selectively prosecuted. Brenning Komi Clapper. Hillary Vulgar himself later. All these people lied to Congress McCain's frock. But they didn't prosecute them they prosecuted me. Knowstone you're not allowed to argue that the first floor Roger and at some story at a time that is some that is the story of stories and I think the justice system did not work well by you. I hope you find justice A mere future lows. You WanNa help me go sign a petition at free Roger Stone Dot Com. I'm I'm supposed to turn myself into jail and the next week I don't know what will happen. I am praying fervently for Justice John. Thanks for the opportunity to tell that horrific story Pacu Roger Stone and I'M GONNA go sign a petition myself. And and good luck and we'll talk to you again real soon many things. This is the cats roundtable. We write back.

Roger Stone FBI Roger Cnn Roger John Roger Stone Dot Com Donald Trump John Cats Matiz wikileaks special counsel US Stone Muller America Jay Farner Ceo Clarence Darrow New York Times The New York Post Kafka
'1917' - Sam Mendes & Roger Deakins

Behind The Screen

34:12 min | 7 months ago

'1917' - Sam Mendes & Roger Deakins

"Have a brother the second battalion. They're walking into a trap. Trump orders ought to deliver a message calling off tomorrow morning's attack if you failed and it will be a massacre. It's talk about this for minutes. What is the cross? That is the German frontline old. If we're not clever about this no one will get to your brother today. We're thrilled to be joined by Academy Award. Winning Director Sam Mendez and Oscar winning cinematographer Roger Deakins about their new world war one drama nineteen seventeen which uniquely appears as if it was shot in one continuous take Mendes won an Oscar for directing best picture winner American beauty and he previously collaborated with deacons on jar. Head revolutionary every road and Sky Fall Deacons won an Oscar for Blade runner twenty forty nine which was his fourteenth nomination in the category his credits also include the Shawshank Redemption Fargo and no country for old men today the pair join us to discuss the unique approach to making one thousand nine hundred seventeen and their collaborative process. I'm Caroline Georgina and welcome to the Hollywood reporter behind the screen. Thank you so much for joining us to pleasure. So for starters to tell this story which takes place in real time with a ticking clock would you tell us about your initial intent to create the film to appear as if it's one continuous take. Yes I mean I felt like I wanted to tell this very intimate story that took place over just two hours of real time of this one person. Initially it was one person carrying a message passage and then I thought closely after that thought I had thought. Why don't we just do one shot? And I suppose I felt that woods immerse us in that world old more completely connected to the emotional journey of the carries of more completely and the more I thought about it the better idea. It seemed in the more. I I worried about the moment but I would have to send it to Roger Deakins so I thought I'd better get out of the way once I wrote it. I put on the front page. This is written and designed to be one continuous show and now I put my fingers in my ears while he read it. Just what you did was. It was a few four letter words. I mean on the first page you go really but then you know what we SAM. So it's not not going to be a gimmick and you know I. It became pretty clear early on reading the script. The reason for that kind of immersive kind on of idea. That Sam was after because it was on the page. It really felt that. So yeah well. Let's start with pre production. You you shot in various locations around the UK and these were very long takes. You couldn't repeat locations. Would you talk a bit about why you picked the locations that you did and a a little bit about the production design work will obviously the main reason what we were looking for was replicate the landscape of Northern Franz that the movie is set in so Roger Annoy went went out to the battlefields of the Psalm and to Belgium where we saw what remains of that landscape it was very moving and very Beautiful place but very flat quite bleak and quite difficult to actually find replica of that feeling that atmosphere vast ost skies and Flatlands with little copses and forests in England and we ended up finding actress. Roja suggestion and Salisbury Plain which which is to be hundreds of thousands of acres of military land very unspoilt in south west England and that form the majority of it and then we built the trenches. We will over a a mile of trenches involving daffy we dug them But of course we had to walk the trenches. I went in stages we ended up started walking on anti failed. And then we put down stakes in the ground where the journey walls and then we marked out the trenches then. We dug them rust again. Doug a little more hushed again and by the end you know it was one unbroken chain of of trenches that went for over a mile and that was near London and then we had other locations nations. We had a canal in Scotland and govern. Docs we had a river in two TS. But then of course we all. We had to stitch together to feel at one continuous landscape. But I think without having gone to northern France and Roger to begin with I don't think we would have been able to have. That was easy for us to return to that image of the landscape. We'd walk through on the interesting thing. I think to know that France we went particularly to me Ridge and then we went to this other place. It was on the French front line to would done. And then me rich is brown soil clay and the trench lines British and the German trenches only about a hundred and fifty two hundred feet apart and then and it's all Brown mad. Let you would expect. And then and we went to this the French front line and it was white because it was all choke and the frontline there was maybe a mile and a half two miles apart and it felt completely. Yeah so I think that informed about the the idea of starting off in the world and then when they moved to the other towards the HINDENBURG backline they go into this chalk landscape which is obviously what we find suicide. replaying Mackenzie has not seen these areas of the enemies. New Line around here John. Three miles deep field fortifications defenses artillery. The like of which we've never seen before the second due to attack the line shortly after tomorrow have no idea what they're in for and we call woman as a parting gift. Gift the enemy cutolo telephone lines your orders to get to the second. Quasi would one mile southeast of the town of acoust- deliver deliver this Tacoma. Mackenzie it is a direct order to call off tomorrow morning's attack if you don't ask we will lose two battalions sixteen hundred men your brother among them. You think you can get their entire guess. What was the average length of each take? The average length of of scenes was probably six or seven minutes. Longest was nearly ten often. The reason for that was emotional in other words. You know you didn't want to break the emotion of the scene. You didn't want to break the thread of the performance and then sometimes the reason was technical. We were shifting incredibly difficult landscape coming out of hi window going down Voss crater all crossing a bridge you know these things Osun the rigs have to chain so you have to find a way to shift from one week to another so varied the reasons for breaking them and then of course you know you've had this nagging Pain that was. You know you do a nine taken after eight minutes and thirty seconds it was brilliantly and then somebody would make a mistake or you know somebody would trip or somebody would fluffer line and then you have to do it all ever again and nothing of that take could be used. There was some magical moments that we don't have to leave behind you know in the search for other magical moments and in the end we did move on until we got them For every bit of frustration with suddenly forgotten when you have find the take. It's exhilarating feeding when you get it. Finally how many takes did you typically have to do probably well. You'd think some of the bigger ones would be more as a very long and Mike and efficently show sequence at the end I think by Raja which is a final run. She some of the trailer for example. Where we I didn't do that many times? Because we've rehearsed it so much and there were so many explosives going off that we couldn't but we knew that so. We knew limited number of occasions when we could do it whereas some of the things that we thought perhaps more simple ended up being much more complicated because a small details I hadn't probes or lighting a cigarette and lighter break so you know all these sorts of things that go on just getting align and trying to stage things in a way that fell absolutely natural yet. was you know completely in sort of sync with the camera. The choreography of the camera and the actors being very complicated so we probably did on average about twenty but some scenes went to fifty takes. You know there was one particular seven or eight minutes in Redid. Fifty takes off and months of Rehearsal Honma on top of the months of rehearsal. Yeah we rehearsed not just open air but we also also built the trenches out of cardboard boxes in a big stage at Shepperton so that we can move the trench walls. If we felt there were too narrow to wide and we can create the dugouts we create the little divots in the in the trench. said that we could sense. What the rhythm physical rhythm of the same walls rather than just the verbal rhythm? Because often. They're moving through through landscape and they're not saying anything at all and I think probably one of the most difficult road to a property agreed with no-man's-land because basically is huge wjr vast stretch of mud and give it the detail And the incidents that were required without any dialogue I thought that was that was something that at walls constantly. Changing the actors relationship to the camera. So you weren't simply following them from behind. That was something that we work very hard on our thing. That was no Muslim. It was interesting as well because it's actually the one. I think that informed our language if you like it was the first one that we I mean when you're in the trenches at the beginning eerie career behind or in front so it was I will come. In around on details I mean that was Samantha workout but it was straightforward and it was just about the link when we got a no-man's-land onto land. It was like okay. Well how do we work with the actors and Choreograph the camera movement with the actors. So you see details but then you go from one character's close up to another character and then you see them. Why and then you see what they're looking at? You know that was really interesting. I think that informed a alot about what we're going to do with the rest of the film on travel. We could free the camera moments when we needed to. Would you elaborate on. How you choreograph the camera because you clearly went for different types of rigs what was involved? Yeah but I mean the first thing was to work out what we wanted to do with a camera and I remember distinctly when we first started talking about Osama the trick is here not to think about technique not to think about how the hell are we gonna do this because neither of us knew but it was like okay. Where do we want the camera to be? What's relationship with cameras relationship to the the actors and what's happening in the frame and yeah? Yeah Yeah and I think we neither is wanted it to be self advertising as you know I think we we spoke earlier on about not wanting to think about who that's interesting. They put the cameras. So the camera doesn't do anything showy and it doesn't go through the needle it doesn't policy panes of glass or pulse rewards And it doesn't thousands of travel with the moving bullet. You know what I mean. And yet within that has infinite variety I think and it moves constantly as Rajah described no-man's-land. What they you see what they're looking at your hand off between one character and the other? Sometimes it's cut free entirely a very specific and I hope well-chosen moments so okay but I think at the end of the day the choices about how the camera the actors and the characters the dance of the of the two of them was about instinct. We didn't have any really hard and fast rules because at times comes race objective and at times is very objective times. You're seeing seeing the coaches at a distance. In vast landscape and at times you'll saying them at the expense of saying where they are and the two things had to be unbalanced the whole time and also we didn't want to go back and forth pan back and forth between two characters while they were talking for. That wasn't one show that's just a seles. Good way of cutting dialogue And so the camera never does that. It's always moving forward and it. The feeding we wanted was that it was pulling you you forward through the through the the the movie through the story and it wasn't presenting you with animation. But the information you need somehow fell exactly in front of where the camera what happened to be pointed. At that moment we spent quite a long time testing different rakes. And I didn't know stabilize him rakes. But we've tested everything we could think of and then whittled it down to basically four major system so some were steady cam. Some was trinity which is areas kind of steady. Cam is an arm you can. Control goes up and down similar to a steady becoming way more stable I think and then but the major a piece of equipment we tested was called a stabili. which is a stabilizing rig? been invented by this guy called Dave freeth and it's only really been used in England on specific shots on films and it's a very small remotely operated head that works off a GPS system. I think it's electric and it's kind of amazing. I don't know how these things work. But it's incredibly smooth and we probably shot sixty percent of the film on that remotely operated and then we also used a mini libra head which which people are familiar with which were better on for the long run. That Sam's talking about just now. We used a mini Lieber on that. Could you comment on how the hand off between the different brings felt. So seamless in the movie world. I think if I'm pleased with one thing in the film probably that's what I'm pleased with that you don't really feel the change in the technique and that was key really because he didn't want a camera a character. It's not that kind of film. You know you just want it to just disappear really in the image and I think for most part that's quite successful and you operated. Well I operate the remote head which is something like sixty percent but when you say operate I appreciate the wheels the cameras where it's pointing but then this grips running around with it. I mean you know is a lot of people operate on again. Sam was referencing to that. The run in the camera comes off a fifty foot tacna cranes get carried up. The hill can walk backwards with George. It's on a mini libra ahead. Then it gets on another Tacna Crane it's on the back of a truck and it goes racing off on the grips that carried it or in uniform so they they got paid as being accidentally they disappear across the shot and that's incredibly complicated. Those probably thirteen grips and Brian. Brian Ah Carbon Cart driver tracking vehicle driver on it as well as all the rest of us and he focused pulling the huge number of people just involved in those trade offs. You Know Hillary when we did that show the end. Oh my God. Wow everyone's high. Fiving I been only grips for like thirty years. Oh my that's something. I've never done that before. It was really choice. It was really great it was it was your cruel archer than usual. No actually it was quite. It was quite small. I didn't have a lighting so you know that cut down I have one huge lighting rig. which was the Acoust- town but otherwise known as a grip crew and a camera crew? We one camera. So Hello Charlie as operators large grip crew but it depended on on the days. Sometimes it'd be four or five groups and sometimes it would be thirteen or fifteen. You mentioned the lighting since it had to stay continuous. Were there days that you had to switch which scenes means you were going to shoot. In the days. We had to wait for a long period and days. We didn't shoot first and we were incredibly lucky with the weather but I minute must say there. There was the most tense nervous. Anxious thing for me was waiting for the cloud and some days it would be blue and little clouds becoming come near and dear say Michael get ready. Get ready to dissolve and I think we're now. How am I going to get away with this? This go away another hour and you know I mean I'm going to say SAM was so patient and everybody was so patient. Somedays we wait hours and hours but you know I think a lot of it was an roger is vigilant normally in hate to feel like people are waiting for him and I had to say Roja we know in a year. It's we're always looking for the weather. Not just yeah I had to sort of take the pressure of him because you know they want. We weren't shooting anything. He was pulling his hair out. I said this nightmare you know. And it's true to say that the end of the first day they we were way behind and by the end of the second day we were ahead because what happened in the first weed rehearsed and rehearsed and Russ so that when the weather was right on the second day we moved double the speed aid and suddenly we were doing more than we planned and so that that was what happened on good days. And that's when the Brussels paid off you know but yeah it was just trying to take the pressure of rose as usual guilty. Do all these weather APP visit cloud on this one. I'll use you know crazy. Our friends again looks like it dogfight. Here's went us. I think what mm-hmm where did Editorial come in where was Lee. Your editor Lee Smith involved. And how did you work together. Lee was definitely the unsung hero. Because you you think would need it. In unbroken unbroken shot movie that the editor would be frankly supplus the requirements but the truth was he was pivotal because what he was doing was he was back in London but he was putting the shelves together. He was in many cases putting temp score on it. Getting the sound right occasionally borrowing takes kidneys speeding things up so many things down. You know that sort of thing and we were able will to see. The movie emerged very quickly and judge from the shots What the rhythm of what we were capable of? What what what was possible in the following scene so for example as seen towards the end of the movie where Scofield play by George Takei stumbles on a a soldier in the woods? To abandon of two battalions and it it takes. Its time this scene and I'm not sure had I not been able to see the movie right up to that point whether I I would have had the courage as a director to allow it to take the time it does and I think that that's because of Lee feeding the movie back over time he's also very very good judge of performance and that was crucial because we had to choose are selected. Take very quickly because we had to match to that take immediately the literally the next day and in some cases on the day itself that we shelter we shot somebody in the morning and I had to select the tape that was going to be in the movie a five minute take definitively so that we could match to the the tape we were shooting in the afternoon and and so it it made you. You have to make decisions quickly and it was you know. Sometimes you think but done this to myself and then shot chronologically itself. We should as chronology could. Yeah I mean we jumped around a bit when we went up North to Glasgow but yes we were watching gene. The movie emerge chronologically which also is incredibly helpful. Unhelpful for the actors to they live through it in sequence and then how did visual effects step in to help the blending. When you had cuts the blends were worked out very very carefully in advance? I mean we if anything talked about them to the expensive almost everything else she yeah so he was asked about. It was all about we. Sam said he had choose take. And then we'd start the next take and we'd have the match the action the the distance of the actors from the land that footsteps. Even you know so that when they passed the moment where the blend is. They're actually footsteps going in the right. Synchronicity together and everything so that was really that was really crucial. So where we put the blends was really crucial. We talked about that a lot. The variety of the blends. I don't think we should ever talk right now about which sharp lands in. which aren't because I know already? Some people are saying. Well I know you change the job. There and mm-hmm we didn't we did. Where were you? You wouldn't imagine it worse there are some that are genuinely. I mean the laws in fact invisible but but at the same time but in in each case it was a combination of at least networking with your visual Effects House. Pc Yeah absolutely and and supervisors supervises and and I think the majority of visual. It's work in the movies is set extensions and Foto Real continuations of landscape and background removals and this other the thing and and it's different from the norm because I think what you're offering visual houses you're sending them a two second shot or four seconds. Enjoy ten second shop and they give back to the few frame handles and away you go right but these all shots you have you live in you. Sort of marinate and often. You're seeing do things constantly from different angles. It's not just the church from the front digestion. Sign on a church from behind and it's burning and at different distances. From at any given moment the blossoms blossoms that fall in the river you know after be adjusted and adjusted an adjusted as they move it's living environments on and not just distant landscapes. It's an and that had to be integrated into the things we'd found and we wanted it. You know it has to be part of the lighting the world the atmosphere that we shot. And that's what takes the lead and everything. So it's unusual in that regard even though we were shooting in cloud some disparity time a day between a side and the B side of a shot that you put in a little blends timing wise in that and we very adamant that everything that the visual effects guys did came back without any baked in timing on anything so we have control over that in the but obviously you're helping the idea of it going into dusk but I mean when we did Glasgow which is the last show. It's meant to be dusk going across canal bridge. We shut that late afternoon. I mean I managed to actually stole stole before we shot. You thought we didn't know what was going to break my leg to well. The thing is is that actually I mean what what I mean. It's obviously been a tweet significantly by Roger and Greg is the Congress but but really it's not far from where we show them and and And I think that One of the great things about shooting on digital on one of the great things that I felt and this was on sky fall as well when we lost worked together. Is that you do what you see. On onset is very very close to the finished product is finished and and has that detail that you need from continuity but without again gave us the confidence that things that you know Bap Sean in more light than we would initially wished could work as dascomb workers own own You know workers the breaking of day. And that just gives you the confidence onset to say yes. It's that tape. We're moving on because without confidence. You could be sitting there the second guessing yourself for weeks and sometimes when does normal movies each take offense. They had their own challenges. But what was the one that most kept you up at night. Well I mean we had different ones. I would think the one that kept me out. Most of the night will be a surprise It was the first show on the movie that that that was the one that concerned me the most actually because it wasn't just a shot it's not particularly complex shot but getting that tone right and living with these boys was given the mission. I think we know what the stakes are. You know the ticking clock everything but you wanna live with them in real time and they talk a I bet when they walk a bit and they don't do much and that for me wall you also know that probably this point the audience is beginning to sense with this is shorts going on and for that not to feel self conscious either from the actors or from the Kuna Camera. I thought that was that that was the thing that an and it also spend spend a lot of time with that in post getting the music rights and getting that feeling just as I wanted it so that was for me. The thing that caused Komo sleep loss. Jane Roger I wanted the Sun to come out the end of the film and it does it really does James Rojas wife. Life said Roger. You can't make the sun come out. But she was wrong she was wrong. Some comes out now. You also had more than five hundred extras presence. I understand there are a lot of extras but I also did something I've done before. which is I additional of them Now addition to my I got what a wonderful eighty team to basically you know. Ask them three questions you know. What's your favorite? TV Show what you WANNA do for. What was your ambition when you're young you know and and and walk around a bit and the reason is very quickly can see you know and the level of physical dexterity lack of dexterity and both of them were were valid for this movie? The personality comes through very quickly and so we were very careful out of the two thousand people. We'll dishes that we chose those five hundred very specifically and he made a big difference. I have to say made a big difference and plus Michael Domain whose office and co-producer. He's brilliant absolutely brilliant with background and You know spent a long time. There were put through boot camp. They were you know. There were dressed intense that was surrounded by picture research. The period documentaries playing the corner and music from the period replaying the background and the they also were very influenced by the feeling of teamwork and Excitement excitement that this way of working engendered They were really Gung Ho. They got it. They understood what was required of them. They knew the camera wouldn't cut and there's is a freedom in that and excitement that they used to so they could just do it. You know full full out and not stop you know and that was I think really helpful for background so because they really weren't important aren't important part of the movie. Did you hear that story about. We'll keep your is on the trees. Top of the Ridge. Bay told you shrapnel what was it well we know knows goes a hairdresser right and he was moaning about the lack of facilities when he wrote to her. She sends him over this hair or smells sweet. Golden Syrup wilcock loves. The smell. Doesn't want to cost around these pike so he slathers it all over his bond goes to sleep and in the middle of the night he wakes up and writes sitting on the shoulder licking the oil off head. We'll come panics jumped. When he does the right by exclaim screened when you talk about how he shot the scene in the river? I assume that was in a tank. No it wasn't it was on. I don't WanNa be too specific nick about this but but basically it was a very impressive Whitewater facility in the north of England. Some of it is real. I mean the water is all real and believe me Georgia's in the water in the freezing cold river and fighting to stay up I mean that was nineteen But some of the the banks are not real and We wanted that. Was I think probably all the sequences is good. You ask by is probably the one we talked about the most because we didn't want to to be on the water itself. We didn't want to be an raft because we felt that when the RAF went up on the actor went down we would lose him constantly. We try getting the water with them. That didn't work. We try being higher than him. That felt like it took us out of the movie. Eventually we found a rig it was it was actually very simple. It was a vehicle driving along the riverside with an all fit that we could. We could swing out and move. According to George was in the water without remaining in exactly the same relationship to him because we also didn't want it to be locked off. Otherwise we could have built a rig that was attached to George and then put the camera on that rig but then the relationship between him and the camera would have always been the same same. So basically we've built a road alongside the water. Technically NAM could boom in and out on a pickle and so we had a wonderful camera car driver. Who did the run at the end of the film? Brian and the the group crew fantastic grip crews so they could stay in sync with the actors and the camera side on when someone it'd be side on and front so yeah I mean and we had to have control over that so also that facility ability to to change the course of the river if you like so that we had it could move as it where the rocks were and the rocks. Move where the water goes so we could. We could really construct agenda for him down the river but the actual the back background is actually was shot at drones. So I mean it's it's kind of real and not real. It's obviously I mean the thing about the film accusing kind of an inch techniques. Actually I mean you couldn't have done the film without digital camera and a small digital camera that particular kind of style title of stabilized head. It's all things. Come together so you can do. What Sam was imagining Oprah is imagine it is the prototype of the Alexa mini left for the film correct? Yes that we went to James went to Munich in some of before we way before and twisted Arizon- I've always worked with Ari and they were very good and they thought about it and said well we we're GONNA make a MINNEA- gala at some point okay. We'll make it for you. So they they guaranteed this three bodies by the time of the shoots and then completing the Spiel feel that you're constantly in the experience is obviously the sound. Would you like to comment briefly on their work. Well you're absolutely right. I mean the immersion. The one fields feels with movies as much to do with sound image. And I think these days you know we avail ourselves of of all the bells and whistles that you get with Dobie Nelson and not tomato the conventional seven one and five one cinemas but. I feel very strongly that nevertheless I wanted the sound to emerge from the image. I think there's Great Danes with the surround. Sound that sort of divorce itself detaches itself from the agent. You always want to feel like it's coming out at you from the image even though you are using surrounds this is. It was a lesson in the delicate use of surrounds as much as possible but then there are times in the movie becomes almost surreal. TIME SCHEDULE WAKES UP. I mean knocked out and landscape of the destroyed town is lit entirely by flares. And it's wonderful to be able to hear the flares going overhead or the plane's going ahead earlier in the movie the sound of the leaves around you and he's walking through the woods or feel like you're in the river with him Because of the way that sound is used and so it was about about trying to do that in a judicious way and again similar to how you use the camera to make show off a look at the sound or listen to that thing. That's coming from the back of the auditorium area to try and unify it And I thought Oliver tiny and this Amboise who who mixed movie did brilliantly as deadly Smith is also a fantastic sound right from the beginning. Congratulations to both of you. And thank you so much for joining us. Thank you

Sam Mendez George Takei Lee Smith Jane Roger I Roger Deakins Oscar Glasgow England director Brian UK Michael Domain London France James Rojas Roger Annoy Academy Award Scotland
Remembering Roger Scruton

The Philosopher's Zone

28:27 min | 6 months ago

Remembering Roger Scruton

"This is an ABC podcast. Welcome to the philosopher. Sign on our end. This David Rutledge and it's great to have you company once again this week where remembering Roger Skrudin the English philosopher and public intellectual who died last month at the age of seventy five and whose death occasioned a wide variety of responses that indicate just how controversial figure Roger just grooten was. He was suddenly prolific. He wrote more than fifty books. Not just on philosophy but also on music and politics hunting wine environmentalism. There's a handful of novels in there as well also a couple of operas. He was an accomplished pianist and composer. What Rogers Gruden most emphatically was not was a man of the political left? He was in Paris during the Jamal. Chua student protests of Nineteen Sixty eight but rather than being out on the streets. He was watching the writing from a first floor the window and he would light up right that what. I saw was an unruly mob of self-indulgent middle-class hooligans. That's why I became a conservative. I knew I wanted to conserve things rather than pull them down but what he champion was something of the sort of Philistine toryism. That's come to be associated with English conservatives. Today he was highly critical of Thatcherism and the insistence that social problems could be solved by competitive market forces for Raja's grooten conservatism. Men An emphasis on what he called the civic virtues of self sacrifice duty solidarity and service to others and these weren't just abstract principles during the Soviet era in Eastern Europe. Roger Scrutiny was an active supporter of anticommunist dissidents particularly in Czechoslovakia where he smuggled books and organized lectures pictures as part of an underground education network until he was expelled from the country in one thousand. Nine hundred five he wrote the Liberals Seek Freedom Socialists seek equality but conservatives seek responsibility and without responsibility neither freedom nor equality have any lasting value but rogers grooten was also kind of conservative. Who draws a lot of fire in today's culture wars he was an unashamed Western cultural chauvinist? He thought homosexuality was abnormal. He opposed same sex marriage. He supported capital punishment. He was pro brexit an anti pop culture. He lamented the fading influence of the Anglican Church in modern life and the the decline of the English Gentleman philosophically he was something of a Hegelian. With Good Dash of Edmund Book. He believed the truth. Beauty and self realization were. We're the highest ideals to which one could aspire but these should all be sought within a cultural community where manners moral stability and traditional values or upheld. Well back in two thousand fourteen Roger. Scrutiny visited Australia and he sat down with Joe Jalen easy to talk about what was then his latest book. The soul of the world which explores the creation of meaning and the role of the unknowable. The transcendent even the sacred in human understanding. I still think philosophy is a way of isolating from the scientific way of thinking those aspects of the human condition which contain meaning of their own. Even though to many of us that means a mystery Roger Skrudin holding onto the mysteries of being human refusing to surrender them to science. Well much just yet. He's lightest work. Look on the soul of the world gathered. He's cool beliefs about those things. He feels matter the most music being one of them. And he's our guest today on on the philosophy zone. I came to philosophy actually from an interest in the arts to me. The thing that started me thinking when I was a teenager was poetry and music which seemed to me to be so saturated with meaning that I had the problem of how exactly to extract that meaning from them and I turned to philosophy as one source of hoping that I still think of philosophy as a way of isolating from the scientific. I was thinking those aspects of the human condition which contain a meaning of their own. Even though to many of us that meaning as mystery. Okay so where is that. Meaning well the origin of it. I argue in my recent work the origin the whole meaning is lies in our own self consciousness and our consciousness of ourselves as in relation to others. You know that I come to know myself through knowing you as you come to know your south through knowing me and this spreads outwards as across the human world old and changes the whole reality for us and it's out of that that I think grow not only art and music and poetry but also religion and the moral life generally and I think that is for me. The real task of philosophy is to make sense of that and to show that that world that we Partly create partly inherit partly as it was see through is actually the real world where we belong that I you concept up the sideline than its emergent. Three time that does will sign a material by slide. Doesn't mean we our bodies well this is of course a very familiar. Australian theme Australian philosophers set a certain period became fascinated with the whole idea that we are bodies. He's on the the mind is just the brain or something like that and there is no reality over and above the material. I think that that is Both true and false is true that we exist only insofar as we are embodied. But it's not true that we are identical with our bodies the analogy of a painting a very easy way of explaining this. You know it is true that the Mona Lisa is a collection of pigments on canvas. But it's not not true that she's just a collection of figments on a canvas. That's how she is constituted. But what you see in an encounter in that picture is of course ah complex spiritual reality that is face to face with you and challenges you to assign a meaning not just to it but also to yourself nothing like that to each each other and when we look at each other merely as the bodies in which we are as it were in comet then we don't see what is actually there for for us. You'll not Cartesian dualist thou. I doubt I'm not a counties journalists. I don't think that we understand this mystery by proposing using another realm a secret private realm of immaterial. Things no there is no ghost in the machine. There's no ghost in the machine but the thing is not a machine if you could elaborate what you mean by our meeting that we can see it in another way and seeing it in another way we also see it as it is but we see it in a a different way from the way of scientific explanation. We're not conceptualizing the world as we would do when we're trying to explain it through the laws of motion that make it move from one condition to another. We're trying to understand it as we understand each other when we Face to face undiscussed things trying to influence each other always assuming that we are each of us free talk about cognitive Judaism as opposed to taking us the Tim onto logical deal ISM Judaism. That is not as you say splintered to substances bundle hidden and one that's kind of real world physical causes. What is that cognitive? Did you listen medlock to try and get a finger way this meanings actually like by connoisseur of this mind. We have a way of understanding the world scientifically when we're trying to explain it which involves conceptualizing everything in terms of its constitution spatio-temporal continuities and so on in formulating being the physical laws. which give us a handle on it but when it comes to the human world? We don't conceptualize it in that way. And if we try we go completely wrong we would never be able to have a dialogue with each other. If we thought in that way but we do have available a completely different way of conceptualizing things in terms of intention attention goals meanings and relations of a dialectical. Kind this is what I try to spell out in my recent work perhaps Komo interesting example than just the straightforward human encounters example of music. You could give a complete account of of a wealth of music in terms of the sound waves produced this particular moment the sequence of pitches and so on all that can be described without describing being the music. What happens when you hear a melody? Free examples that you cease to just a sequences pitch sounds you hear something that begins a move collapsed reaches a climax advances towards closure falls into a field of influencing gravitation and and so on these things are all musicians know because they move with the music and it moves with them in understanding in that way you use completely different conceptual scheme. But you're understanding it completely. Those concepts APPS that you use like movement and gravity weight transparency or things that musicians immediately understand have no place in the science of sounds so one doesn't I have a land. The other is two ways of looking at the same thing the mind brain issue it is too key ways of looking same thing but they are complete ways. It's not as though they were only gaps apps and the musicians by have understanding sound. The acoustic expert has to fill in nor can the musician affil- in for the acoustic expert. They're approaching the same material with a completely different interests. And that I think is what we do the froude realm of meaning that we create together. Can it be explained by Eh Tyson by HIV Aleutian by the fight with between genetic the genius who well this is something again that has penetrated Discourse recently you know the the theory of evolution in particular evolutionary psychology which tells us that advanced states of mind our stations nations which is true. We assume. But it's triviality true. If they weren't adaptations they wouldn't be there. When you call something adept you mean that ineffective there you'd have lost out in the competitive struggle to be where you are in that way? Mathematics attics very obviously a station. The mathematical creatures who are able to add things out and subtract things they have won out over the non mathematical creatures creatures. But that doesn't tell us anything about what numbers saw or what mathematical truth is. That's a deep for this question about the meaning of this thing which is not even touched by the thought that it's an adaptation Guess it crosses this line of de Physical things have physical causes well. There are huge paradoxes. Of course such emerge when you think in this way but there's no way of avoiding these paradoxes. The paradox of freedom can't is very illuminating on this team. I think he made it clear that we couldn't actually make decisions except on the assumption that we're free to make anthem that assumption is deeply embedded in our whole ability to understand not just our own condition but the world in which we live after all speaking is designing something being too so this assumption of our freedom is built in even to the science. Is that deny it. So there's a paradox. In the heart out of the human condition this paradox is never gonNa go away and it contained in the word. I I'm glad you mentioned the wood I because I did want to discuss with you. Explored would this notion of the subject of objects right because this is what your understanding is based on the fact that we are subjects. Somehow muddle up this idea idea that we are only objects Yes I look back to. The not just can't but the great days of German idealism followed him in which what was Hagel. I suppose you posed this problem. Most clearly that it is obvious that I refer to myself in the first person as I am doing so I have a kind of privilege I have knowledge of my own states of Mind Mon intentions how I'm oriented towards the world so to speak which you don't have but what is it that makes that possible Hegel argues that is not a possibility as contained in me in in childhood said to speak it. It is something which comes into being through my interaction with others so in order to know myself as I I have to know you as you. And and growing out of that the discourse which unites us and sets us in a world apart that dialogue. That makes it possible for me to have self knowledge is one which which assumes that both you and I a free and yet freedom comes into being only with the institutions that contain it so that coming along with this is the whole human world the complex world that we know but don't fully understand you know the world of law and institutions and knowledge and my view is that philosophy has it main task to describe that world and unto show the ways in which we have to respect it but I also want to argue and I think this is really very relevant to modern debates. I went to Creates a space for the sacred and indeed the concepts of the sacred and the forbidden and the transcendental are also as it were like shadows that follow along in this dialogue and we're constantly aware of them behind us and sometimes we try to turn around and observe them as it were the attempt of modern science to give us a way of living without Shadows is to my view absolutely self-defeating is this difficult for philosophy though to be trying to name the ineffable to try and reach behind this this of course to f the ethical as Samuel Beckett says is something that were inevitably drawn into doing but we never can succeed need that which shrikant name can nevertheless be manifest in other ways. Nothing this is why we need not just art but we need things site listed on the act of prayer Other ways in which we expose ourselves to the unknowable because that unknowable is haunting haunting US anyway there's a kind of dishonesty in the modern world. We are too proud to do this. But my view is that through art. We learned that we must do it and unrelenting we must do it through religion too. It's understandable though because there's only so much that can be said if anything at all and if that which can be said. His is is not grounded in any material or any way. I've been able to explain ourselves in the universe. The speculation it's its own course vacancy sign famously missy. said at the end of the track where of we cannot speak we must consign to silence but there are different kinds of science. There is the shallow turning away from things but there is a deep silence in which we actually do in some way hair. The reverberations of the Cosmos told me about the Tim. LIVAN'S BILL TO LEAD INS. Built Laban's voted life world so it was a term introduced. I think by Postel who is a phenomenology Analogies Central European but also of the turn of the nineteenth and twentieth century. What he had in mind what I take from him is the view that We self conscious beings live in a world which is not reducible to the world of science the world of life. It's not reducible because that is shaped by our interaction with it and by the ways in which we conceptualize it in order to interact with it so it is as it were the projection outwards of Ivar own intention -ality and it has a systematic quantity. I think that's what he had in mind. It's not just little fragments is joined up and that joining up is as what we do through our interactions with each other but also through these things that we were just referring to let religion on the moral knife used use the term overreaching intention. was that name. Oh I meant by that. When we are in the the close encounter with the we are always relating to that person as another I but that I is not available to us directly So we're we're seeing through the veil that he presents to us to the thing that we can never know whereas it were trying to reach the horizon of his being in the way that he is trying signed to reach the horizon. The only I know in my own being and this is it. Sounds like a mystery but it's not a mystery it's just that whenever content with simply the physical cool presence of their that. There's always that sense that there's a center of consciousness radiated through it and so we reach always beyond what we are given and I think that is something thing that is intrinsic to our life as rational beings. I'm we carry it with this around the world and it's what goes on when we hear in music. That's what I I was referring to. Not Jesse sequence of sounds but the life that moves in them and radiates through them that something that we project onto the world. There's a whole music aclu to our intentions bite. Hogan's C sharp minor court hit for Roger Roger Scrutiny no better example of the all too human demand that the world be meaningful this is the philosophy zone honoring this then brings into account then the gauthier conventions the way we have through the yawns related I to one another and the instruments we used for that. Can I talk to you about the moving up modern society as you call it from convention to contract and and how that relates to this basis of the iu the averaging between humans. It's obviously the case that a political organism such as the one in which we live depends on our relations between the individuals within it but it can be constructed in lots of different ways. And we're in the post enlightenment. World have come to see everything in the political sphere in terms of the freedom of the individual that that it's the to maintain that freedom and gains its legitimacy from that freedom that freedom we tend to rationalize in terms of the concept of a right the concert. The right has taken over from the concept of duty under which Societies were organized before the modern world. And his crazy with it all kinds of tensions because maybe it isn't enough just to claim your rights. Maybe you have to acknowledge your duties to otherwise the thing thing falls apart. We are moving into a new sphere of things in which quite a lot that. We take for granted jeopardized by our own desire to maintain contain individual autonomy. The possible expense of the community. Some would say that that move from convention to contract is in fact a move from status to contract correct. Yes and that is a good thing. Well that was originally how it was put by Henry Maine actually in his book on Ancient Law in the nineteenth century. Yes yes it is a good thing if status is regarded as flexible in some he doesn't have an absolute authority or an absolute ability to exclude. But but a society without status is also jeopardized by lack of deference. We see that growing one around us. The old older no longer respected the excitements of youth are overvalued. And all kinds of things that we regard as necessary for the social deadlight. The legal system itself are often jeopardized by this so some elements of status have to be retained. A judge has to have a status above the court in which he says and above. That of the barristers were arguing before him. And so A prime minister has to have a status above the parliament. Over which he presides and so It doesn't mean that these things have to be decked out with the absolute invulnerability of a stall in or whatever you know and we in the English. Speaking world are very fortunate in that since the seventeenth century at least we've inherited a view of status and something essentially benign. You know the people people acquire this by accident half his authority. But I've got it and use it wisely. The that status in the public setting the era institutional setting what about status in the private setting. I mean if we take one current example the move towards same sex marriage. What is that fitting? You're quite right to raise as the question marriage because once you think about it you recognize that marriage in our societies has not been conceived as a contract a Hegel. Who says that you're going to have a contract to enter marriage but the marriage itself is a substantial union as he puts it? I think most people put it in another way by saying that it's not a contract vow and avow has something sacred in it and that's why we've always wanted to the gods to join in so to speak speak. I'm blessed the marriage on blessed marriages as it. Were not a proper marriage but merely an agreement to cohabit and I think that has been a very fundamental. took part of our sense of what marriage is the anthropologist would say that's for very good reasons in because it's a right of passage on which the continuity of the social order depends on the difference of sexes is absolutely vital to it for that reason because it has connected with the whole reproductive cycle an and I think that that something like that is true and when you then introduce a concert of gay marriage you are changing. The idea of marriage in the direction of contract tripped away from this idea of the sacred vow and so marriage is irreversibly changed by this. Whether we want that to happen is another matter but it does mean that marriage has ceased to be a matter of renouncing one status for the sake of future generation. I'm become a contract between the livings to speak. If contract is the only way in which people relate then marriage has to be that way too but this is another Arkansas saying that maybe societies depend upon there being non-contractual relations relations of piety consecrated relations. If they are really to endure uh we haven't had much experiment yet. In whether societies rearrange marriage in this way will actually reproduce you talk about vows. You talk about sacredness credence religious. I'm religious in the way that I think all human beings are if they're honest with themselves and I shall remember Anglican Churches Choose has the wonderful capacity to absorb every kind of belief in non-belief. Still go on as it should so in that sense. Yes it's just that it strikes me that obviously you're batting team. It's losing you know you're watching religion. It's received from the world as an Australian there of of course. Religion is receiving from the world if the world ends the boundaries of this small little continent but unfortunately or fortunately whichever way you look at it it seems to be growing elsewhere maybe not the right kind. I cling to my Anglican faith because it is so gentle and accepting. It's an instrument of peace and sanctification over a small piece of earth learn spread widely to when I refer to the Anglican Church. Now I don't mean the medieval things from which it arose. Although I think you know one of the great things about our enlightenment is that it. The neighborhood us to look on religion under perform it on recognized that violence is natural to human beings will penetrate the religious sphere as it penetrates every sphere But that it can be cleaned out from every sphere. Hasim you've just mentioned that Some things that irritable obviously one of the streams of thought. Now was it things that we connection micromanaging fixings the Brian Auriol's US circuitry. I'd be pessimistic about the thing that you've just said you know maybe maybe we could enter the nervous system micromanage things violence and the rest and produced a race of compliance zombies. But the people who will be doing doing this will be people like. There's awful futurologists and transhumance with whom I have no sympathy at all the race of zombies and produce will be exactly that themselves Salvesen that you'd better not to do it. It's finally Roger. Scrutiny despair of the modern world did is it a lost. No I mean no world contains me is lost. Well the will no longer contains him so maybe we are finally lost. That was English philosopher Roger Screws reason who died last month and you heard him in conversation with Joe Jealousy during a visit to Australia. Back in two thousand fourteen next week on the philosophy Zayn another more recent visitor to these shows. Martin Haglund professor of humanities at Yale University. Who is skeptical about the human yearning for eternity? He's a briefing to be finite means that you know you will die. It means that you haven't always been are. You will not always be but also means that while you're alive you can't sustain your life on your own you came into this world not by virtue of young volition but beverly people and you're dependent on this throughout your life and to be fine. It's always to live with the anticipation that this will not last forever and you can take it for granted and that threat of death. Is this while difficult. Terrifying is also intrinsic to anything that matter but I see us. A common denominator for various. Religious Traditions is cited to regard ARD are North temporal life ass somehow lacking in relation to what we were the highest good would be assistance where you couldn't suffer loss so you couldn't fail you couldn't die. And many secular atheist extinguishers have said like well there is no such thing that's an illusion but it would be great if they're all such a thing whereas I'm trying to show actually that such an existence in which you couldn't lose anything you can suffer. Also nothing could be at stake so program apprentice show is precisely that we should understand our financial infidelity. Ask as essential that even though we can improve and prolong allies no such waist. If we remove the risk of death in relation to death we also would remove any life any form of existence in which anything could be at stake and could matter Marvin Hagler and in defense of this life. That's next week on the philosophy designed with me David Rutledge you can find via the ABC. Listen up all the aren website and you can tweet me at David Peas on. Thanks for listening to you. Next time

Rogers Gruden Roger Roger Scrutiny Roger Skrudin David Rutledge ABC US Anglican Church Australia Hegel Eastern Europe Czechoslovakia Chua Paris Thatcherism Mona Lisa Tim Edmund Book Marvin Hagler Raja Samuel Beckett
Deadly Devotion

Dateline NBC

44:20 min | 6 d ago

Deadly Devotion

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NBC to get ten percent off your first month join over one million people taking charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional at better help. That's better H E L P dot com slash L. NBC. Almost made me sick. I was on the floor and then I kinda. Cut Myself Together. So we have to go over there. I have to go over there. In the muscular military world, she was a commander who care. What are you doing and she says I'm writing birthday cards to all my soldiers, her husband, a charming sergeant and devoted. Dan He was just as loving and doting Azlan was. No one could believe it when this decorated officer was found dead in her own home, an army commander being murdered. WAS UNHURT. The I suspect as usual the husband, but this one had a rock solid. have been very difficult for him to have committed this murder. Did this soldier have enemies off the battlefield? Her brother-in-law had a grudge ride Nevis going around calling her names vulgar names her husband had a girlfriend. Roger was sitting with a young lady and they were cuddled up. We found out that she was pregnant. Who Killed The commander in a place where loyalty is prized above all one clue that palm print was a key part of the case would reveal a breathtaking betrayal. A Word Service. What a monster I'm Lester Holt, and this is dateline. Here's Andrea Canning with deadly devotion. In the hot and dangerous Middle East she held her own in the company men a captain and a commander who's devotion never wavered. She inspire people and that's maybe why she made such a great commander. She inspired her troops she inspired those that that worked for her to want to do. Well, she was Captain Lynn Armstrong Riester Army veteran Debbie Moore one of her best friends Lynn was very intelligent. She knew how to bring out the best in people. Nice slept Dr seuss someone to be inspired by she inspired people. She had a big role in the military. Very big. She was in charge of the air defense artillery in Saudi Arabia when they were in Saudi and we had the Patriot missiles she would be the one that would make that decision on what was coming in if it needed to be taken out of the Sky Captain Riester earned medals and promotions and the loyalty of the men and women under her command that loyalty cut both ways according to her assistant Megan airs. Does. She take care of her soldiers. Absolutely. She added Welfare checks where you would you know she would visit with families she would meet with the different wives and things like that. was she the perfect candidate for the army she was in my opinion she didn't let stress get too much I think that she was probably one of the best commanders I've ever worked under Lynn grew up with a brother and two younger sisters and the Military Town of Pensacola Florida while she was away at school she center sister some advice on tape for her sixteenth birthday don't argue avoid arguing. Don't. Let anyone's boil that for you and you'll be happy you'll find it in your heart. Anyway I. Hope that help. She graduated with an officer's commission from Norwich University in Vermont. One of the oldest military colleges in the country and then began the globetrotting life of a soldier. Matlin over in Germany. Debbie Lynn were both stationed over there. They met at a birthday party through mutual friends. I snapped a picture of the four of them sitting there at the table, young women serving their country savouring life overseas and being surrounded by guys in uniform sometimes love entered the picture. It certainly did for Lynn how did Linen Roger Meet? They met over in Germany, the K. Club is that an army club that is an army club sits in on spock and we go there on Saturday nights because on Saturday nights, they had country music. Sergeant brought Riester in Lynn, hit it off at once and the romance blossomed Williams a wonderful person. She had a smile the just you lit up the room as a military wife when I heard that. Roger was enlisted an Lynn was an officer that's a no in the military. Yeah. Back then it wasn't as critical as it became a couple years later he was a charmer and she. She fell in love and they got married. Debbie like the fact that he was an elvis fan and I was like amazed I really your. Lee Two. I was kind of surprised by that. Yeah. So yeah. He was a lot of fun. Roger Admired Lind's devotion to her country and her strength. The have to be mentally strong with the military especially with the women in the military, you have to be mentally strong be able to. Go Toe to toe with some of them in Linen Roger had chosen a soldier's life and that meant to marriage full of separations Roger even missed the birth of his son Tristen it was unbelievable. If as soon as I came back, I stepped off the bus and she said this is your son. And that was it was really. It was really a great moment. It really was just held her and held him at the same time. We'll see a good dad he was. He would him up to visit and you know they would play and he seemed very happy being dad. When tristen was four, the family was stationed at Fort Bliss in El Paso Texas, and it was Lynn. Who got called Away Lynn found out she had to deploy to Saudi. Arabia you were going with her yes ma'am which she okay. With that. I mean she had to leave trusted behind. This is the this is her first deployment without him. Correct. Add to the best of my knowledge. Yes I remember her telling us that. It. was hard that she was having a hard time with it. She was sat and that she just kept telling him that should come home. It won't be that long and it was how long was there's about six months. And then she did get home but her old life was about to change about four months after she got back Roger Convinced Lynch to let his twenty four year old brother Rodney come live with them. Rodney had gotten into some trouble while his brother was serving his country maybe Roger in Lynn could set him straight. He was on probation in Florida and for him to be able to leave the state she had to write this letter you know saying how she would. Take on that responsibility Roger Her to do that. So she did. Write about the same time Lynn found out she was pregnant again, the tug of motherhood was getting stronger. So this globe-trotting Army captain made a decision she put in for a transfer to teach rotc in Minnesota good for her career good for her family and no travel. was she doing it at all to be with Tristan more part of it yeah. That would be part of it. Yes. She wanted to It's more relaxing she was going to be a teacher yourself in the shoes really looking forward to. Just days before moving time Lynn, was saying goodbye to Fort Bliss Lynn was having a going away party anytime a commander resigns a command. The unit will put together by are going away gift usually a plaque or something to commemorate the accomplishments of the. Unit. Meghan didn't go but her husband did. My husband came home and I asked how how? Did she like the gift and he said, you know she never showed and that was very odd. something. Else was odd Roger had been calling Lynn at home throughout the day. No answer late that afternoon he came home from work with tristen. and. It was all too clear why Lynn hadn't answered the phone. Lynn Armstrong Riester Mother soldier beloved commander was in her bedroom lying dead in a pool of blood. One we return my first thing was to grab Tristan run out of the house mostly me sick I was on the floor. Where will investigators start could be a neighbor it could be a lover. You killer on the loose. Out there who did this? Roger Riester at his little boy tristen had just come home at dinner time to something no child should ever have to see. I'm the one that founder. Whenever I walked into the. At Tristan with me and we walked in it was it was tough. It was tough seeing that. Lynn six months pregnant had been stabbed to death her throat slashed. My first instinct was to grab trason run out of the House and then. I know all the screaming and yelling and probably look like a madman out there but it was it was. I didn't know what to think. And? I Immediately call nine, one one and Trista out tristen in his statement says. My Dad he took me up fast and those kind of things. Gonzala Chev Horea. Was the lead detective did you think about this this poor poor woman's last moments in this House I do I. Looking at the scene and try to imagine her maybe fighting for her life or pleading for her life or or how scarce she might have been any signs of robbery or things taken no we we actually scan. We could see valuables there was there was no signs that this was a burglary or robbery but once we did the walk through in and looked at and with the help of Roger because he was explaining. What he has seen when he went in with police and neighbors converging on the scene, the news got out quickly Lynn's Fron Debbie Moore couldn't believe it hasn't been watching TV and he was flipping through the channels over the remote control. And The. Flip Bein it was her house and yelled and I said, wait wait what is that in that Lens House and so he flipped it back and about the time. came up that a woman. had been found murdered in her home. Did you know right away. Yeah because I knew the house. And then they said it was military. and. I remember I. Almost made me sick. I was on the floor. And then I kinda cut myself together I said, we have to go over there. I have to go over there. Roger was already talking to detectives and clearly shaken police were sympathetic but they knew he had to be carefully scrutinized. What's your first impression of Roger Riester? He was grasping his son wouldn't let go of him and I I thought that maybe I saw some fear he was scared about what had occurred it seemed to me at the time. Are you looking for anything in Roger Researchers is or his mannerisms are what he's saying? Are you immediately sizing him up? Absolutely just To See if maybe he did this absolutely, actually a while for me to calm down at the very beginning because my mind all over the place and then once a rap minder on. Okay. Let me just go ahead and give him this. Get this knocked out of the way then they can actually get on with the investigation detectives wanted to know where he was all day. Roger had a good alibi he added solid alibi. Yes. You his son was with them all the time he had left his house very early and stopped at a convenience store were he's a friends and talk to them. And then when he got to work obviously his coworkers, his supervisor song also backing up Rogers Alibi was his brother Rodney he told detectives, he helped Roger Jump, start his truck early that morning and watched him an interest in leave detective Steve Moon Yose. He's at that they were able to up the truck, get a going and se pulled away he he says that he did see Roger also pull out from the driveway later Rodney visited Roger at the base he told police his older brother looked worried when he called Lynn and got no answer. Thing knowing fifty eight am. And Twenty. Five. Helen this is Roger. Money. Tristen and then he leaves work and so we knew that it would have been very difficult. For for him to have committed this murder. So who did it as the investigation got underway detective? Chavarria thought the possibilities were endless to be anybody. Could be. A neighbor could be a lover. She was a captain she was a supervisor and we thought about. Her troops and her subordinates and maybe somebody that she might disciplined or or. Sex. Offenders in the area you had a wide net you needed to throw out. It was a white investigation at the time. Yes. You gotta killer on the loose. In the neighbors were very scared and WHO's out there who did this in those first few hours the leads would pour in and police had to move Fast Lynn, Riester had inspired loyalty in her life. Now in death, the detectives could not let her down. Coming up. An army commander. Being murdered. WAS UNHEARD OF ON BASE, a giant military families hit hard by murder. But in Linz, own family had there been signs of trouble. Rodney was going around calling her names fall claims. He had a little bit of animosity towards Lynn when dateline continues. HBO's all on the dark is the new critically acclaimed documentary series based on the late author, Michelle McNamara's investigation of the Golden. State. Killer catch up on the series the Washington. Post calls brilliant intricate and absorbing watch the finale of begun in the dark Sunday at ten pm on HBO and stream all episodes on Hbo Max Subscribe to Hbo's All be gone in the dark companion pop. For in depth conversations about the case. Hey, guys, Willie geist here. Join me on my Sunday sit down podcast a big interview every week with the likes of Bill Murray Jerry. Seinfeld. Bradley Cooper Kevin Emily Blunt Natalie Portman. Yes J. Lo this name droppings making me tired check out the Sunday. Sit Down podcast for free. The News of Lynn restores murder spread through El Paso, and it was devastating to those who served with her at the army base. Did this crime send shockwaves through Fort Louis? It certainly did it was heartbreaking. Heroin when it? First happened we had no idea. Scary. The. Fort Bliss community packed the memorial service to say goodbye to the captain and the baby she was carrying never got a chance. Tell us about the funeral. The wake was extremely difficult. She was buried in her her army dress uniform. And They. In order to do the open casket. They had to cover the throat. So they used her. Air Defense Artillery Ascott Tae. Connects on the back and. said that they would be able to the open casket. Once, mother asked me to go buy baby blanket was a little boy and so I went and bought a little baby blanket and so for the memorial when they laid lynn out in her uniform. The. Point was there that not just one person hittite in this tap to hit tied. For Tristan, was there with his family and his mother's friends barely comprehending the tragic rupture in his life? Do. You remember how you felt towards him idea. Just felt sorrow. Hey. I wanted so bad to fix it for him and I understood this little four and a half year old boy will. Never know how great his MOM has. How much she loved him. Did your heart disco out to this little boy. Upset and still does. But the detectives had to put emotion aside and drill down to the facts. Roger wasn't home at the time of the murder and neighbors weren't reporting any suspicious activity. So detectives wanted to know if one held a grudge against Len-, they quickly learned that at least one person may have Roger's brother Rodney. Things started to go south with Rodney pretty quickly after he moved in. Yes there was. Times where he would just lay around all day long Rodney idolized his big brother but he was something of a disappointment to Roger in. Lynn. Well he just wasn't. He wasn't working he basically just living also of US stuff like that. She would go to get milk out of the frigerator tristen and the milk would be gone because Rodney had drank at all and didn't bother to replace it and. Yeah, it was becoming Not a very good. Relationship Lyndon want him to stay I think len was ready to have our house back. It's difficult when you have another adult living in the home, I think they talked and they ended up Roger ended up telling. Rodney was time to go that you needed to leave. You've been here long enough. We've tried to help you. You know you're not really helping yourself. So you need to go in I came to that decision together, but it was just one of those things that just had to be done. He held that against her. mine and his relationship continued on but I could tell he had a little bit of animosity towards Lynn even after that. A. Closer look at Rodney showed a young man with a dodgy past. He done time in Florida for crimes like petty theft forgery, grand theft auto nothing violent but still he was no fan of Linz. And then I remember Lynn. Telling me that, Roger? Had told her. That Rodney was going around calling her names. You know calling her vulgar names that he. She's the reason that he got kicked out that she's the reason that all this thing these things happened and stuff. Did you see that as a motive? I. Never thought that that in itself would have been a motive to killer that he would have been that angry just because of that to to kill her. So why in the World Would Rodney Want Linda? I don't think Rodney wanted. Limited. Your was a person that was willing to help us in the investigation and he was very cooperative. Initially, and throughout the search for suspects continued Lynn's neighborhood turned up nothing same with Fort Bliss Lynn had no enemies there. You couldn't imagine that it could have happened. It seemed unreal. An army commander. Being murdered. WAS UNHEARD OF. But then one name cropped up Rodney mentioned it to police we asked him would. WanNa. Do this to Leeann Did she have any enemies? Rodney tells us that there's this one girl Her name is April ten. This girl has a crush on my brother and So. He mentioned her and that's important. Coming up. Crush. This was way more than that. kind of playing detective for her a bold confrontation with the other woman we knock on the door she opens it and I said, my understanding is you're pregnant. It was a lead that would take the Lynn Riester murder investigation in a new direction. Roger Restores brother had mentioned a young woman who had a crush on Roger. Detectives. Quickly learned this crush was an open secret around town. To the village and I walk in the door and there was Roger, it was about nine months before the murder Lynn's assistant megan had gotten back. From Saudi Arabia Lynnwood was still there with the weakened half to go roger was sitting in a boost with several other. Other people I didn't know any FM. As, well as a young lady and they were cuddled up and brought, her had a look of sheer terror on his face. When he saw me walk in and realized who I was because we knew each other he stopped and he gave me a hug and I didn't know you were back. Only, am the young woman's name was April. She was nineteen years old what exactly was going on between Roger and this young lady they look like a couple and they did Megan decided it wasn't her place to tell Lin but over in Saudi Arabia Lynn knew something was up Roger Never seem to answer the phone. Again. I don't know. Only for twenty four hours. And word had traveled halfway around the world that Roger had been having parties at their home drinking with people as young as eighteen, acting like a teenager himself. Lynn, left him this voicemail before she got her flight home to Texas. I need we should. Be. or marriage. Getting. Security. Not. Wanting to. School. Size of. The current. Lynn rarely gave up on people. She loved when she got home from Saudi Arabia she wanted to patch things up with Roger. You're talking about somebody who was in a marriage that she wanted to keep together. And she fought. Hard to to keep it together. One Night Lynn decided to surprise him at his favourite country bar, but the surprise was on her Roger. was. Surrounded by his new gang of young friends she came over to me and start talking to me and asking me questions about Roger if I saw him over there, and if I'd seen him before and I told her that I'd seen him there one other time because we'll do know who these people aren't in April was in the bar that night. Yes and how was he acting around April? They were dancing on the floor doing flips and and turns and yeah things that he never danced with with Lynn. But he's doing this in front of land. Yes. Oh yes she was so angry and what made it worth as he was disrespectful. I mean she was trying to talk him and he just every time she should start walking towards him. He'd walkaway sounds like Lynn was trying to be the GROWNUP and Roger had reverted a little bit. Sort of the good old days, oh. Yeah. Yeah. Detectives learned that night of the country bar ended badly a messy drunken argument broke out between Roger and Lynn. Roger moved into the barracks after that Lynn asked Debbie for some help. kind of playing detective for her and so I went up and I remember sitting and watching how side the barracks and April ended up coming up there and hanging out at the barracks. This wasn't just a crush. This was a full on a fair and then it got worse lind heard a rumour that April was pregnant with Rogers baby and so I told her I said, you know I know where April lives said Lynn. Why don't we go over there? So why we why don't we just go talk with April cuts gutsy? Yeah. Well, we were older. And I knew Lynnwood be. Lynn wasn't gonNA lose it. I mean Lynn Commander. So what's it like when you knock on the door and we knock on the door she opens it she's a little bit surprised and Like I said Lynn was very nice. We sat down and we start talking to her body relationship and she tried to say that you know yes, she had. But it was over now that Lin was back and and I finally said I said well but my understanding is you're pregnant April denied she was pregnant insisting the affair was over so you both left April's not really Knowing for sure if she was or wasn't pregnant if it yet then of course. Later we found out that she was actually pregnant. And telling people the father was Roger. A lot of women would have cashed in the marriage at this point but not lynn she let Roger Come Home Does Lynn. Still WanNa make things work with Roger despite she does this bombshell she does why. I think probably because of Tristan I think that it was important to win that her family stay together and that Tristan be raised with. A mother and father and that she would work it out and they were working on things she was yes. Marriage counseling. They did try marriage counseling. Yes. Did move back in together. Yes. Police heard that after Roger reconciled with Lynn, her car was vandalized April was never charged but at the time linen Roger told police they thought she did it. So this is very complex various April situation police had to put this woman scorned on the list of. Roger had pushed April aside to a point where where he was telling everybody all that's not. Denying. That was his baby that April was carrying. You WanNa get a woman angry. Now that's a pretty good way to do it solely. But as detectives were sorting through this tangled love triangle, they got news of a break. In the case, the forensic lab came back with something a trace of the killer on Lynn restores arm. Coming up. This is a smoking gun days a tell tale palm print. WHO's could it be? who was behind this killing does everyone's jaws dropped gifts when dateline continues A troubled marriage, a doomed affair, a pregnant mistress detected the math and suddenly April and Roger were each looking like possible suspects. But then results came in on a clue found at the crime scene, a bloody palm print online research arm. Did Roger Give palmprints Roger gave his poem was he? He was not a match April give her palm print. This was she a match she was not a match. And then they check the prince of someone else someone Lynn reaser had once tried to help her brother-in-law Rodney. And he's a Matt. Dull sprints belong to him and their blood on liens arm. This is the smoking gun. Rodney was brought back to police headquarters by detective Steve Munoz. person like nothing phased them a New York. Whatever you want from me, you WanNa talk to me. I'll give you whatever you need. When Rodney sat down with detective Sharia. He was confronted with the print evidence and he denied everything. As we talked to him in Proton denials. He became very emotional. Rodney cried a bunch of times during the interview. And he revealed that that he had in fact. Killed Lynn Case closed. Even close. We had to answer the question of why did Ronnie Kill Her why did Rodney? Get involved. In something so heinous. So horrible. So violent. Detectives continue depress they never thought the spat between Rodney and Lynn was a good motive for murder. There had to be something else Rodney finally broke down. He admitted there was he did it because Rochester to do it. He said big brother Roger was behind it all. Does, everyone's jaws drop. The statement? Absolutely. Roger was arrested and charged with murder. There was such speak shock with his friends in their mutual friends because they they thought. No no because he looked like the perfect husband. Perfect father according to Rodney Rogers suggested then begged than bullied him into killing Lynn he offered money he'd pay off the bills and then some but mostly he offered love men Rogers. Feeding these things into his head about. You wants to move. She wants to take me away from my France here you. I love you to separate. US Rodney told police. His brother had new shortage of reasons for wanting lynn dead prosecutor John Gibson. Roger wanted the life insurance policy. He wanted custody of his young son. He knew that if his affair with April became apparent that he face consequences in the military to include prosecution military jail. He he didn't want to move. To Follow Lynn her career Minnesota he wanted to stay and he wanted to party back here no Paso. And Rodney said, Roger. Didn't just talk about why he wanted his wife killed. He says Roger talked about how and when. He describes Roger Preparing. The weapon prepaying extra clothes for Rodney. To Change Rodney said the plan was for Roger to column that morning to say his battery was dad. Was that the signal there was signal and that's what Ronnie tells us when we when I went to the House I knew that was a day I was going to kill. The prosecutor threw the book at Booth? Brothers So decision was made to go ahead and pursue capital murder charges against both Roger Enron Riester and that could mean the death penalty could mean the death penalty but as the day of Rogers Trial Got Closer Rodney's misguided loyalty got the better of him. He refused to testify against his older brother. You know I think Rodney had a degree of loyalty and and love for his brother such that You know he couldn't get up understanding testify against him. So a jury would not hear from the younger brother or see his confession. The prosecution was forced to drop the murder charge against Roger. But that was not the end of the case. Remember that pack of Young People Roger was running with many of them were high school kids in that area and many of the people were junior in rank other soldiers at at the base. So Roger Surrounded himself with people he knew would look up to him. But. They turned on him after Lynn was killed one by one six members of Roger Circle told police they knew Roger wanted his wife dead because he had talked to them about it. Two of them even told police Roger had tried to hire them for the murder. In a Roger Research Basically told anybody who had listened that he wanted his wife dead. So the prosecutor charged Roger with solicitation for murder and put him on trial for that. One of Roger's minions young soldier named Patrick. Mueller was a key witness. Granted immunity and gave a statement explaining that he had in fact been a solicited by a Roger to kill in Riester. Students. Mueller. said he went to the House one night but chickened out when he spotted a neighbor, another young man testified how Roger had tried to hire him. Want. Those. Rogers former mistress April now cleared of any suspicion testified that Roger Talk to her about tampering with Lynn breaks. Lynn's friend Debbie doesn't understand why one of these young people blow the whistle before Lynn was killed. I was so angry 'cause I thought why didn't want to mention it to be why wouldn't? That comment. Not. Been told to me. Because I think if one of them told me that I would have went back to win with that right away with all those witnesses the prosecution thought they had a strong case but Roger restore had plenty to say about those witnesses and about his brother Rodney. Did you ask your brother Rodney you to kill Lin. Coming up. A love my wife we were trying to build a Future Together Roger tells his story will lead jury believe it. And his son has a story to tell to. Tristan Lynn's living legacy all grown up. Take. Your your your wife, the mother of your child, and the fact that she was carrying his unborn child. Have a words of how sick what a monster Roger. Didn't look like a monster when he went on trial for criminal solicitation. But lots of witnesses said, he talked about killing his wife to anyone who would listen. While now, twelve jurors were listening and it took them all of three hours to find him guilty. When you hear guilty? My. Legs went out from Underneath me lords actually had my arms. Roger was sentenced to life in prison. He spoke to us from behind glass at a Texas state. Prison. The prosecutor said in his closing statements who is he crying for? Referring to you, he said he's crying for himself. Now. Crying for my wife and unborn child when I was crying for. It had nothing to do with me. Why should we believe you? because. I didn't do it because I love my wife he told us he may have been a terrible husband but he never wanted lynn debt was life easier without her. Absolutely. Not. That's why we actually got back together we separated in. I was like okay. Well, I'll move back into the barracks, but that's why we got back together. Because of life wasn't easy without your life was better with her. Always has. But. Remember the prosecution said there was a long list of motives. All right. Let's run through the motives of why the prosecution said you wanted your wife dead. I was you want the two hundred and fifty thousand dollar Life Insurance Policy Oh. No. It doesn't make sense because linens making more money than I was so. Two hundred fifty thousand dollars all soldiers have that same amount on them so you wanted sole custody of Tristan. No Linen I. would. Definitely been joint custody at something that we talked about whenever we briefly separated you didn't want to go to a military prison for committing adultery. No it's been a very long time since anybody was. Convicted of a felony for adultery in the military. He says he still doesn't understand why all is old friends turned on him, but he doesn't have a good explanation for why they all would have lied. You had a lot of people. Saying that you wanted to have your wife killed and you'd think I'd come up with a really good reason for it for all those people and I haven't obviously you know maybe some of them had their individual motive. Six people. I know that's a lot of people all lying in ganging up on you. I don't know what the reasons are, but you'd be surprised what people with. The year after Rogers trial his brother Rodney. was convicted of murder and sentenced to life. Roger. Still. Says Rodney acted alone. One of the things that's hard to wrap your head around is that Rodney had this love for you. He looked up to you. And for Rodney. To turn on you and say that my brother. Asked me to kill his wife And I did it out of love for him Why in the world what he make that? Maybe, to save his own life I heard that they were trying to give him the death penalty and the only thing that he could have done to even save his own life was to say something like that. Maybe a little bit of sympathy as far as why this is a man who loved you. Well. If he loved, he wouldn't have killed my wife. You do seem though like you're playing the part of victim a little bit by saying this person made this up this person made this a porn me. All these people are lying, well, I'm an innocent man sitting in jail. So yeah I I do Kinda. Feel like a victim. Yes. He says that he's the victim in this that all these people lied, and now he's behind bars because of the lies. All. These people lied. To say that Debbie says Lynn's profound loyalty may have been her undoing and that Lin would want other people to learn from that. Sometimes. You don't keep fighting to keep. That marriage together. That maybe there is a time. It's better just say you know it's over and walk away. Even. Now, this case can bring detective Chavarria to tears. Can you explain it? Why you have this emotion. Can you put it into words? It's hard. It's hard. She was pregnant. Of course you have. Interesting. Lost everything. What had see the hardest choose trying to keep her family together. Think, she knew what kind of man she was married Do you think about your wife's last moments and you're born child's last moments how homer fixed they were no I. I try not to think about that at all. It's not you really WANNA do your timing here. Lynn stated in her will that Tristan should go to her mother if anything happened Roger agreed to Suntrust in to one of Lynn Sisters instead and I know he's the good home that was probably one of the things that I did before I got locked up make sure that he went to that family in particular. Now anyone anything about me. Tristen is now in his mid twenties, he's getting himself through college. He's got a good group of friends, but it's been a lonely and difficult road. He very clearly doesn't know anything I've gone through. You know and obviously doesn't understand that most of what I've gone through his because of his decision he keeps saying that you had this great upbringing and that gives them peace essentially but your life was not so easing wasn't it was a very difficult. Place to grow up and just in general the the very fact that I lost my parents is one thing that's. Traumatizing but then to go live with my aunt. In effect a stranger to me as a kid. Is. Is it was a lot. Still. His difficult life has pointed him in an interesting direction you want to be a crime scene investigator goes I do. And is this one hundred percent from your own experience or is there something else? Believe it or not. I've always been really interested in anatomy and how things work but I've also wanted to have a bunch of questions answered about my own life Val. You know the? With my parents mainly. And at curiosity, kind of blood over to other situations me and my mom's. Tristan treasures. The baby book is mother made for him bigger and better. and He loves listening to that audiotape. She made for her sister's sixteenth birthday. It's cool here I remember when I was sixteen. That was the greatest time on my life. Believe it or not. Probably one of the most exciting times of your life to I. Sometimes wonder if she's not happy with how my life is going or my decisions or if she'd be proud of meaner whatnot, you've overcome the odds you're in college, you're making something of your life not yet. Long Way to go how could you not be proud about? I'm sure she has just. As I said knew for sure I. Miss You so much all you. Hope you guys missed a little bit. That's all for now I'm Lester Holt. Thanks for joining us. The meet the Press Chuck Todd Cast. It's an insider's take on politics. The twenty twenty election and more can conversations with some of my favorite reporters about things. We usually discuss off camera listen for free wherever you get your podcast.

Roger Debbie Lynn Tristan Lynn Rodney Lynn murder commander Roger Give palmprints Roger Roger Admired Lind Captain Riester Fort Bliss Lynn Captain Lynn Armstrong Roger Her Debbie Tristen Saudi Arabia Dan He Roger Convinced Lynch Roger Researchers
Mueller indicts long-term Trump ally Roger Stone

AM Joy

1:23:02 hr | 1 year ago

Mueller indicts long-term Trump ally Roger Stone

"Yeah. I am closely accused of making false statements during testimony and evidence committee that is incorrect any. Error. I made my testimony would be immaterial and without intent as I said previously. There is no circumstance whatsoever under which I will bear false witness against the president, nor will I make all lives tease. Fresher on myself. I look forward to being fully and completely vindicated. Good morning and welcome to AM joy. Well, it's kinda hard to hear that first part over those lock him up chance. But this is the spectacle that the presidency of the United States has been reduced to a defiant Roger stone, just hours after the predawn raid of his Florida home almost seeming to enjoy the circus as he becomes the sixth Trump official or advisor to be indicted or found guilty of crimes in the Muller investigation. Stone was charged with obstruction making false statements and witness tampering for allegedly lying to congress about his con. Text with WikiLeaks as they released stolen democratic emails during the campaign unclear exactly how long Roger stone could face in prison if convicted especially mullah's holding back charges as a way to get him to spill some tea on his buddy, Donald Trump doing now, a Sam numbered a former Trump campaign adviser who last March testified before Muller's grand jury after saying that he would defy his subpoena, and then very widely. I would say Sam did not. So I wanna get your initial impressions of just the entire thing that happened yesterday. The take down of Roger stone and his his presentation of himself after his initial hearing. Well, I think Roger everybody Rogers allies outside people expected that he was going to be indicted. What we didn't know anybody new is what it would be. I was very surprised that is not to belittle the charges completely process. They did not put them as part of a conspiracy. To defraud the United States perhaps are holding onto that for some reason with that said, this is something that Roger loves a fight like this whether you like Roger or not this is something Rogers basically built for as long as he's able to put up a legal defense. He will have witness list like enjoy you would not believe he'll have the actress going on outside, and we'll try to make a spectacle because to him. It's about convincing. A jury all you need is one juror. And so so we'll find out in terms of him flipping which I know you would want to get to. I think that that's dependent on a couple issues. The first is he is extremely loyal to the president. This was one of the major problems we had together during the twenty sixteen campaign, but it would also depend I think in the way the president to president's legal team the White House talks about him. You think he's expecting a pardon? Good question. I can't speak for him. I've never discuss. This them. Let me be very very careful answer this. But I think in the back of the back of a lot of these people's minds they are expecting part. So let's talk about the actual substance of charging went through and read indictment yesterday. And let's just go through a couple of things that we're at least one of them was this question of how Roger stone was making all of these predictions. Some of them on Twitter about whose time in the barrel was going to be next about what was coming and whether or not he was interacting with the Trump campaign during and here's one element of the indictment on or about September eighteen twenty sixteen stone emailed person to who is now known, and I think has been confirmed by him to be Randy credit co an article with allegations against then candidate Clinton related to her services. Secretary of state stone stated please ask the head organization which would be WikiLeaks for any state or HR Email from August ten to this thirty particularly August, twenty twenty eleven that mentioned the subject of the article and can. From this narrative. It sounds as if stone was intending to use Wicky leaks as essentially place to mine opposition research on Hillary Clinton. Would that be accurate? I look I think Roger would have used wicketless I think Roger would have even gone into the embassy and met with Julian Assange been invited. But he didn't and and in terms of this. It's that he made himself. This has been my issue is one of the reasons why it was very difficult for me to go into grand somebody who's worked for Minoza is because he made himself such a target during this process, which he didn't have to do for a bunch of reasons that they then started looking into this. And now when you're looking into person to person we're talking about we're talking about we're talking about Randy credit co and we're talking about your own author the birther conspiracy. With whom he's now fighting another part, speaking of Jerome Corsi on or about August, second 2016 person who's Jerome Corsi, Email stone person stated in part word is friend. Embassy plans to more dumps one shortly after I back he said he was in Europe second in October impact plan to be very damaging would not hurt to start suggesting HR is old her memory bad and has had a stroke. And now let's start looking at what actually happened you had info wars and the rights are jenning up these allegations. Hillary Clinton was mentally feeble physically feeble a minute about a month later. She caught a cold in the mainstream media picks it up as Washington Post headline about Clinton's health being a major issue. So these things were actually implemented. Are you surprised that Jerome Corsi and Roger stone and Randy critical were doing this by Email putting creating an Email paper trail essentially of their working with WikiLeaks today? Just think it was not illegal to use. As Roger had said to me. And as I've testified in this is basically public is when I would tell Roger I would sit eilly suggest you do not do this for a bunch of reasons. Make your suggested that he didn't do not do this. I suggested that one he as he was doing it and doing these tweets and things that you're making yourself a target one. It looked like Hillary Clinton was going to win and she wasn't going to be happy with number two the FBI under Hillary Clinton, especially after what they did during the election right going to have to look into and then number three. And this goes back to the idea the part enjoy what would Donald Trump do for him right with Donald Trump appreciative? Because trust me, he wasn't. He did not treat Roger well. Roger he did not give Roger inauguration tickets and one just didn't have inauguration. He did end up getting them, but not directly. I don't believe right through other interview. Don't even think that Trump appreciate it. Because in the indictment. I don't think you'll appreciate Roger or me. No. I know general. Yeah. Could you do you have any idea? Who the senior campaign officials that were having these back and forth conversation? I don't one point their emails. The New York Times found where Steve ban and his emailing back and forth with someone saying who's telling him you need to get in touch with Roger stone you to get in touch. We got oil. Yeah. Boiled, right. It's all public. That's in the back end on the top. What you're talking about is in that July timeframe, I don't know specifically who it is Donald Trump. Could it be Donald Trump who instructed them later paragraph? It could be, but I don't know. But yes, yes, it could cause there's a paragraph in the indictment says that they were instructed by a senior campaign official to go back says no says a senior campaign, if this is even more it's like, the senior campaign official was instructed to go back, right? And they made sure to not and that's the same paragraph where they're extremely particular. In writing senior campaign official contact senior. It could be Roger stone of headed personal relationship with besides Donald Trump and self on that campaign. Well, in that timeframe things were a lot different in going through just understand what once Paul Manafort God in to the campaign, I under the auspices of who's going to help Trump during the convention, and then basically looked as if Roger was going to Roger, and we're going to have a we wanted right from planning to push Corey Lewandowski out Roger was more -ffiliated with the campaign from the outside was fine by him because he's not directly culpable or he doesn't have to answer to Trump. I would assume and I don't know this. They're talking about Manafort and gates. Okay. Because the people he would know he wouldn't have July. I was asked freak. I was asked and others have been asked. How often did Donald Trump talked to Roger sewn? How often do you know, the Donald Trump? I mean did Rogers talk to Paul Manafort and Rick gates. Yeah. I am sure there in their proffer sessions both of them they were asked extensively about this. Michael Caputo has said that during his voluntary interviewed they asked him about asserted meeting between him. So look, I think that they're talking about either. Rick gates, and man Manafort there. Okay, very loose. And Roger stone is who recommended that Donald Trump higher Manafort, the first be business partners, and Tom barrack, and Tom bear also recommended Manafort, Tom barrack, recommended it to the kids in your. But Roger put than Donald Trump called Roger when he was about to make the move because it was a centrally pushing Corey to the side, right? Explain to me what's going on with this convention. Could I really lose the delegates at that point? Now, remember at that point. That's the point where Donald Trump even won the state of Louisiana, the primary got less delegates right crews. So they were worried about delegates. But was there any indication in your mind that one of the reasons that the campaign wanted Paul Manafort was his experience is very particular experience in dirty campaign tricks to be blunt because that's what Roger Roger stone's self identifies himself as being expert in did the Trump campaign want Manafort because of his history of doing dirty tricks in places like Ukraine inland. I don't believe. So I believe they wanted to delegates for the convention became in there as the convention manager. I came in there as a convention manager. Trump is losing at that time delegates to cruise even though he had won more states, right? Getting destroyed in caucus states something like eight to one in some states, even and they needed delegates Lewin desk, he was completely unprepared manager. I don't believe I don't know. But I can tell you that you can tell you that Ukraine wasn't the issue. It was it was losing your nomination. Okay. Very quick. Yes. There's also a lot of witness intimidation. It's spelled out in the indictment. I'll give you just one of them on multiple occasions, including on or about December one to twenty seventeen stone terp told person to Randy credit go there, go should do. A Frank ten jelly before the the the house select committee on intelligence to avoid contradicting stones testimony. Frank Penton, jellies character in the film, the godfather part two which both stone and person to head discussed who testified before congressional committee in that testimony claims not to know critical information he knows. This kind of bullying threatening the guy's dog to take his dog this sort of mob like attitude did Roger stone ever treat you that way. When you knew that you were going to go and testify. No. He did not didn't ask you to lie. Absolutely. Not. He did not. And the other thing is he got upset. I believe because I said publicly in private through private that I along we're going to speak to him after being in the grand jury. Yep. To protect both of us. But frankly, Mawr to protect him than me because I wasn't going to obstruct Justice. Yeah. And I even an ironically if I'm on a panel with Ari Melber on Wednesday. This comes out on a Friday. And I'm telling Michael Caputo, he's being stupid. He should he's witness tampering. And he's not thought Trump. He's not the president of the United States who's going to get indicted by the Justice now that may be in the president's articles of impeachment by congress. But no, you can't get away with this. Now had they called me in for instance, for things like we discussed. I would have laughed it all off and I did laugh in all of its Raj. Yeah. With Ramsey critical. I don't know. How critical do you know, Randy credit go? Well, do I know him? Well, no. But do I know him? Yes. Throughout the years, and he did at vise at least according to this indictment. He tried to tell Rogers don't you probably should change testimony not lie and stone did it anyway. And that's and that's and that's what's very strange to me here. Because at the end of the day, the issue is and is why according to this. We'll see Rogers defense, but according to the Justice department. Why would Roger simply not say I was talking to Jerome courses? Right. As opposed to credit. Let's talk about that on the other side of the break. Sam stay with us and coming up, our all star Russia gate panels to join the conversation, and that is right. Look at their fabulous right after this break. Hell were convicted of party. The only person I've advocated a pardon for his Marcus Garvey. As a. Hi, this old friends. I am a fervent supporter of resident. Yes, Roger, okay. Marcus garvey. Yep. We get it back with me Sam Nunn. Berg now joining us Maya Wiley MSNBC legal analyst, Jill wine, banks, MSNBC contributor, and former assistant Watergate special prosecutor, Barbara mcquade MSNBC contributor and former US attorney Paul Butler MSNBC legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, and Malcolm Nance MSNBC contributor, and author of the plot to distort democracy. Thank you for being here, say mega panel. Sam before we let everyone in. We have to talk about this threat to Randy critical dog in the indictment. I'd say the following stone wrote an Email put us in an Email to Randy credit, go you are rat. A stool you backstab your friends run your mouth, my lawyers are dying risk you to shreds stone. Also said he would take that dog away from you referring to critical dog on or about the same day stone road to person to I'm so ready. Let's get it. On prepare to die. What kind of person puts that in writing? When he meant isn't worried that he'll ever be caught. I think I think I if the full Email, I think Randy may have released the full Email into Michael Jones, and I was mentioned in that Email, actually. You'd have to ask Roger that. I what I would say is it's not good, especially when Randy's going to bring his dog and brought his dog took the granted. Right. And so imagine the grand jury is looking and somebody presents this Email and Randy sitting there with this dog. Right. Where you intimidated. My you had an exchange with Randy critical about this. Yeah. Randy critical and I were both on Ari Melber shout together. This was at some point time after the threat, right? But he was talking about the fact that he had been threatened in offset before the show began. He was visibly shaken he kept talking about it over and over again about the threats and the intimidation talked about his dog he took that very seriously. I know it it may sound funny to some it was not funny to him at all. Yeah. And it is if you think about mob tactics where people kill animals and leave them on your doorstep. It is it is not funny, and it was clear. That it was not funny to him. And he took it very seriously. And he was visibly shaken there he is Randy critical. You see on the screen bringing his dog into bringing his dog in. I have to say it sounds like mafia tack to the language of very mom sounding, right? Trying to do. That's what he was going for part of. I I don't think he thinks he's I think it stick Donald Trump operate that same way. Because he now you have Michael Cohen is also afraid because of veiled threats to his father is this the way that these guys operated when you were dealing with Roger stone in Donald Trump, Raj with Roger stone. I think it's always he's always citing. Godfather, he cited this to me over the years. I'm not going to say to procreate, and that's Randy in terms of Trump. I don't think Donald Trump is mafioso. I think Donald Trump is more looked at himself as more George steinburner if anything right and George Steinbrenner or Richard Nixon. Exactly in terms of just like, but they want to hurt employees. Not literally play employee's against each other. You know, always get people off lead them off kilter things like that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. I was just say I think that it's really more mob sounding, and who would have ever thought that my organized crime prosecution days are as relevant as my Watergate days in talking about this case because that's how they talk and it isn't funny to threaten an animal. People are very I mean, I'm a dog lover. So I took that as a very serious part of this indictment is this field to you like an organized crime sort of. I don't know the way that Robert Muller is going about it is this the way an organized crime prosecution would proceed well either that it's the same as Watergate too. I mean you start and you start building up new surround the main character that you're trying to get at right? So it's normal prosecution. Whether it's, but I would say Rico, certainly sounds like something wreckage influence. Organisation. Yeah. It certainly sounds like a law that could be applied to this situation for sure. Yeah. Absolutely. And I was just gonna say on the the intimidation, we do know that stormy Daniels. Steph has also claimed that she was really threatened in terms of her daughter in this context of whether or not she would come out with her story. So it's not new and. Yeah. In terms of the allegations lap -solutely. Absolutely. The panel in if anyone has questions for Sam feel free. He's going to stay with us. And who's just jumping in there. Paul. So Sam should know that this isn't new because after started talking to Robert Muller than Roger stone went on Instagram and called snaps Alema rat and a snitch. I'm wondering stay on. Did you take that as a threat? Now, I did not I told Roger it's not he shouldn't worry about me taking to worry about the way he's talking to other people and Randy critical certainly took it as a threat, and certainly his grand jury testimony. He said so once again, I even had an argument with Caputo on air about this. I said Roger is not the president of the United States. They put that in articles of impeachment against the president. But they're not gonna indict him on it. Roger can get indicted on witness-tampering. Yeah. Didn't take any any of his threats seriously because I know Rogers, and I were you surprised that and Sam brought this up earlier were you surprised that among the charges against Roger stone? That was not included with something like conspiracy against the United States that kind of. Charge because the substance of the indictment is directly about collusion with WikiLeaks. Not surprised because this act too. So I think act one was the indictment of twelve Russian intelligence officers for trying to throw the election to Donald Trump act to now is the information. That's important is hell, open and receptive. The Trump campaign organization was to receive the criminal matters from Russia, stolen, emails and hell Roger stone lie to congress about Trump's campaign organizations are close relationship where receptiveness so I think act three joy will be the American co-conspirators who we have reason to believe are people at the very highest level of the Trump campaign. Yeah, Bob McClain. Believe has a question barbeque, go ahead. You know, one of the things I'm curious about Sam, do, you know, remember in July of twenty sixteen when President Trump made this promise that on Monday, you're going to hear some big dirt on Hillary Clinton. And then it didn't happen. Do you know number one what he was talking about a number two? Why he didn't follow through? I don't know. Number number one. I don't know seems to me that in light of the timing with the Trump Tower Moscow meeting. I'm sure Robert Muller does know in terms of number two. I have heard from others that worked at the campaign at that time that there were their explanation is that we were just disorganized. And eventually we spoke about Hillary Clinton later in the week. No, that's not something that I wasn't with the campaign. Then in fact, I think I was being sued at that point. So. Let me get Malcolm, Malcolm Nansen here because the Wiki leaks part of it. What you've heard from defenders of Donald Trump is that there's nothing wrong with it. Because they were just minding apple research like any other campaign would the problem. Of course, is leaks was doing a new they were partnering with filtered to comment or if you have a question for Sam fil free to do that as well. Well, my comment is quite simple. There's that WikiLeaks has already been determined by US intelligence, including Donald Trump's former director of CI now secretary of state palm peyot to be a non-state hostile intelligence agency. And further to what Paul was saying a little bit ago. I think the next tier is not going to be the American co conspirators, I think it's going to be Julian Assange and the WikiLeaks organization so that they can now pressure all of the other people who had had communications with them by showing that they have a link with an actual now indicted agency the way that they did with the Russian of personnel for the most part. I I find this fascinating. Because Roger stone to me is just playing this character role where he thinks he is combat that he's a mafiose. Oh, and he is about to find out. What a ton of bricks really really feels like. Yeah. We're gonna come out when we come back. I wanna talk about the Lookie leaf. Aspect of this as well. Much more. Sam my Panama, we come back. Rogers relationship with Trump has been so interconnected that it's hard to define what's Roger? And what's Dong? It'll be clearly a Trump presidency. I think it's influenced by stole philosophy Rogers relationship with Trump. They both see the world in a very similar way. If Trump is elected president, I think Roger will see one more very significant impact he's had world history. Back with me as we discussed the indictment of longtime, Trump competent, Roger stone. And we're talking about the Julian Assange sort of factor in all of this in my no you had a question for Sam Sam. So you've said in the past many times, you talked to Roger stone fifteen times day forgot. Yeah. Roger stone has said multiple times that he talked to Trump regularly and constantly and you've had this Email exchange with Roger where it's very clear in this period where he's trying to get emails. August fourth Email twenty sixteen where he saying. Yes. Hillary Clinton's up by fifteen points. But that won't last. What knowledge did you have of how many conversations he was having directly with Donald Trump during this time? I don't want to go specifically into it. Because of my grand jury testimony and the case for the United States, but what I would in and of itself tells me something what I would what I would say is they talked that they did talk frequently, but it was less frequent towards the end of the campaign because the because of the way the campaign was operated Manafort was no longer there and Bannon Kellyanne allies Lindau's gate, but he I had some conversations in October. But that look that's up for Roger insects week of August where they haven't conversations. I would I would think so and I would think so, but Roger stone have been in a position to know since he was talking to Donald Trump and senior levels of the campaign were advised at a certain point, there's been an attack on the Democratic National Committee Wiki leaks. Is has something to do with it. I saw they have known. I think a sonic had gone publicly in June. Right and said that he had these emails what I would say is in my Senate Intel as opposed to Muller special counsel's office Senate Intel was very very they asked me numerous times about the Clinton health issue. The Clinton health issue all I would say is that just for the audience. This was an issue and conservative spheres conservative media since his earliest twenty thirteen. She had an issue. There was something that Bill the Blasi, but Infowars Jim Rome coursing company excel A-Rated that directly after WikiLeaks. I would also tell you. I would also tell you that that Roger and I had conversations with then Mr. Trump in even mid twenty fourteen about using her health. So just join with that said, it doesn't mean that this was something that was good Ed Klein of all people wrote about it. So this is something the Clintons were aware aware of preparing for their. Campaign. You can ask fully Paul Butler, head your joy. So I think sale might be making some news here if he saying that around August fourth this Email that Roger stone was in contact with then candidate Donald Trump because Sam got another Email on August fourth from Roger sto. Roger stone's said I Don with Julian Assange last night. And now Roger stone says that was just a joke. Sam did you take that as a joke? I didn't remember that Email. So that Email is only presented to me in the grand jury not during my voluntary. What I remembered is I had a conversation with Raj. Right. Not spoken to him. And I said, so where have you been and it was a Friday afternoon or so and Roger said to me. I was net with Julian Assange, as I've said Roger told me that they were going to release information about the Clinton foundation, my initial my niche mall. Does she have any new information about Benghazi, and I would point to the fact that Assange release anything related to either one? So that so did I believe initially when he told me I didn't have any reason not to believe him. But when it didn't pan out, and Roger started making these public statements. I thought that this was just another, you know. You know, dangerous but publicity type sinking stunt by Roger to stay relevant within the campaign and within the public sphere of. All right. Jill wine, banks Sam I'd like to ask you because I think people would like to know the evidence now gathered and presented in this indictment is so strong against Rogers. And he's still saying I'm not gonna plead guilty. I am going to stand firm when is someone going to get to him to make him realize that he is going to be convicted the evidence is just to clear he can't get away with this. I think that Roger and Donald Trump or very similar, and this whole idea that people tell me that Donald Trump will fly off in a helicopter and wave goodbye and sometime next summer of twenty twenty and everything will be okay. And I'll take a deal. I don't believe it. I think that they will find things. Both towards the end Rogers, the kind of person where he would think do year in jail, and I come on and give speeches. Barbara mcquade. Okay. Just you know, this is for what he's done are up to twenty years here in jail. I mean, he I think he might have. Yeah. Barbara mcquade jumping a follow up to jill's question has Roger stone ever said anything to you about how he would end -ticipant that if he ever got charged. He could count on President Trump to give them a pardon. He is not the. I noticed even yesterday when registering was giving his comments from the courthouse steps with someone has to question that he couldn't quite hear. He said, pardon me. Banning somehow shrouded request to the president one of my issues with Roger was is Roger has a loyalty and affinity, and I'll say to Donald that used to have. But I don't have any more after the way I was treated, but they have a longer relationship. And I think that Roger looks as himself now as if he's helping helping the president by fighting this charge and not being one of those people on the screen that may be indicted, but has not been found guilty. That's the way Roger probably sees that he's part of helping save the Trump presidency. Donald Trump is is a stunningly disloyal person. I mean, there's to tell me, right. I mean, you've said it yourself. Okay. So there's a great piece of the Iraqi people go back to two thousand eight article by Jeffrey Toobin, dirty trickster in which Donald Trump is insulting. Roger stone will every quote from Donald Trump about Roger stone's an insult of outage down. What why does Roger? Tone exhibit such loyalty towards somebody who doesn't seem to even really loyal to him Rogers, given it back to Trump someways. I don't go into the past. Okay. Okay. So this is not I would just say that I would just say that while Roger may not publicly disparage Trump, he has gone back at him in the in the past in the past a very long complicated relationship is what let me play the moment in July of twenty sixteen this to look like a flashback team Alkam when Donald Trump announced essentially his who who should with with WikiLeaks to get on Hillary. But it would be interesting to see I will tell you this Russia if you're listening. I hope you're able to find the thirty thousand emails that are missing I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. Let's say that happens that'll be next there. An innocent explanation for why campaign that seemed to be in very close touch with WikiLeaks. And mining information would make that kind of statement if they were unaware of the origin of the of the bad, hacked information. Absolutely not and what you are seeing in that video, and we discussed that on that very day quite extensively. You're looking at conspiracy in plain sight, Donald Trump had already had conversations about that. Otherwise wouldn't have popped into his head and then within hours Russian intelligence was trying to hack Hillary Clinton's emails, which they successfully did not do they got around to other people but not to her. But this brings a question that I have for Sam in the first week of October twenty sixteen President Obama made a nationally televised address along with the director of national security, and the director of national intelligence and had said to the nation that the United States was attacked. And that the information that was stolen by Russia was being used in a disinflation warfare campaign intended to impact the election. But anytime did you or Roger stone ever have pause to think? Hey, wait. A minute. We may be part of an operation, which is being carried out by a foreign government. Like, the president and the national intelligence community are asserting or was it just your loyalty to Donald Trump at that time superseded any nothing to do. First off I had nothing to do with it. I was sued July. They have emails. I did not say very nice things about Donald Trump till around the day before up to up to around the second debate. Or so I was fine with him winning the election by enough. So one nothing to do with it. I Ted Cruz and number two. I I told Roger one of the reasons ice hold warranty about this was because he was making himself a target. But number three would also just say Roger conspired against himself because he did not he wanted. He would have I think, but he did it. We're out of time. But I have to ask you this question one of our viewers actually asking this question as well. If you if you knew these to be bad people or people who were just loyal people who you don't seem at this point to have much regard for why did you spend so much time working with them? Because that wasn't the way it was when I worked for for Trump from two thousand eleven to mid twenty fifteen this all started for me. Once I made the decision. To not be campaign manager because I wouldn't be a good campaign manager. It's not what I do. I'm not an operations guy. And I don't. For years. Roger Roger, and I were very close at that point during I I did a lot of work with Roger. And I was I was dated a handling let's say the Trump account. I would look at him as like the senior partner, and it'd be the day-to-day associates say something like that. So they didn't see it wasn't like it wasn't like the way it is now. But I mean, we have a special counsel Tamnin, very, thank you very much. I appreciate you sitting through with all of this, Jill wine, banks. Thank you very much. My Barbara Paul Malcolm in the next hour. Thank you very much. Appreciate and coming up and epic fail for the so-called dealmaker cheap. I'll talk to somebody who may know all too. Well, why Trump couldn't deliver? I disturbing that these special counsel's office realistic, especially prior to informative by attorneys. I would be charged today. Friday was not a good day for Donald Trump, not only with his longtime conciliaory Roger stone arrested, but Trump also suffered a massive humiliating defeat. At the hands of house speaker Nancy Pelosi who backed into a corner and got him to end his government shutdown and the misery that he'd inflicted on millions of Americans without a penny for his vanity Boorda wall. So it's the twenty four hours like that. And you might left wondering, well, whatever happened to the art of the deal. We'll joining me now is Tony Schwartz the co author of Trump the art of the deal. All right. So Tony let I to go through a couple of quotes from the book that you wrote, and here's one that seems particularly relevant quote. I never get too attached to one deal or one approach for starters. I keep a lot of balls in the air because most deals fall out. No matter how promising they seem at first. I and this was under a section called maximize your options. Why do you Donald Trump didn't follow that advice when it came to pretend walnut stone made up? Well, we now know is that. He's terrible negotiator. And actually always has been if you've you're back to the art of the deal, which was a title. I came up with it came into my head in a moment. I've lived to regret thirty years ago. It's a title that I came up with as a marketing message, not as actual expression of reality. And if I was looking through the art of the deal this morning and realized that most of the deals in the art of the deal were failed deals there were three casinos that failed. There was this attempt to get rid of tenants on one hundred central park south that fail. There was the United States football league that failed. This man has been a failure for his entire career. He he earned. I'm sorry. He didn't earn. He he inherited four hundred million dollars. He inherited for thank you so much he inherited four hundred million dollars. And compared to almost any other way could have been invested did nothing with it. Yeah. And I guess the thing is that it was such an effective presentation that Americans by and large. No, Donald Trump becomes the he got the apprentice. Because of that presentation of who people thought he was before you wrote the book. Did you have doubts about his acumen as a businessman, or did you sort of realize it after the thing was a success that oh my God? This was all untrue. I'm gonna tell you honestly, I woke up this morning. And I started thinking about this, and I deserved in tears. Because I the the notion that I made this choice to do this still feels to me unbearable, and the tears I think we're almost tears of joy. That the truth. Could finally come out. So yes, I totally new at that story. I was just referring to about one hundred central park south. I wrote that for New York magazine before I met him. It was called the Cold War one hundred central park south, and it was about Trump's uttering complete failure at trying to harass tenants out of a building. I had an experience with them the cover picture was of him looking like a thug. He loved it. He put it up on his wall. You know, I knew exactly who he was. So I that's why I have been in absolution for a very very long time. I'm gonna read another quote, Ed is it about truthful hyperbole, Donald Trump? This is due writing for Donald Trump. I played at people's fantasies. People may not always think big themselves, but they can still get very excited by those who do that's why a little hyperbole. Never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It's an innocent form of exaggeration very effective production. I think that that's actually funding promotions promotion, I think that's fundamentally true. I think big it's why Donald Trump as an idea for a lot of voters was like this will make our country big. But I think when it comes to governing a country making a promise like stringing, a medieval wall across the southern border. That's just literally unfeasible and somebody who's a builder ought to know. It's not B's -able. It's almost dangerous because his supporters are now married to this idea. How do you break people? Of a big idea. Once even the person purveying understand that it is not possible. Could he just tell them is not possible? You know, I don't think you can break the core of the base. I watched Ann Coulter on Bill Maher last night. And she represents the base. This is a this is a nightmare. I mean, people who believe the most repugnant kind of ideas. So I don't think it's about that. I think what it's about is really recognizing through this process. What you can learn from it and one of the things you can learn is that the people have power. So you watch the air flight controllers call in sick yesterday and of shutdown. Yeah. This cannot ever happen again joy so long as a reasonable percentage of those flight controllers, those F B I agents or those IRS workers simply decide we're sick. And. Soon as they say that America shuts down. So Trump doesn't have to isn't gonna go up against the Democrats. Try to keep the government. I mean to avoid closing down the government. Yeah. Or to make the government closed down. He's going to go up against the people, and he will lose. Yeah. And another thing I think we've learned is that Donald Trump doesn't do well against strong women who push back. I gonna just bury town by speaker Nancy Pelosi who even the media doesn't seem to have caught up with her very clear answer on the wall. Take a listen. Not in clear on. It's been really what what is Donald Trump sort of? How does he deal with strong women? Apparently, he's crumbles in front of them. Well, I mean, first of all he has had strong women work for him. So that's an interesting fact about him Donald Trump will find a way to use anyone if it's in the service of his goals, see work for him. She doesn't work for him. And she is what she has. That is. So rare is a combination of power and elegance another words, she can be circumspect and respectful in exercising that power. And that's what he doesn't understand. Yeah. If somebody comes slashing back at him. Trump can always out slash if someone is graceful. That's a word that doesn't exist in his vocabulary. Very interesting. Tony for thank you for coming today. And also think you for bringing a superstar with let's take a look at who you brought that's my little grandson Jona. Hey Jona, and he's here to support me. I will he is doing an excellent job. I think he is a star. I proclaim Jona a star high Jona gonna talk to the people. No, I don't but you're adorable. Thank you for coming to them. Had to use the services here. Be because. I got to the point that I was only eating once a day to stretch out what I had and. There's some there people here, and they help may help me once I get behind room door crying mass out, and I'm like him that we will never be homeless. Again. We would not want for nothing that we would not need for nothing could happen to your family. If the shutdown continues. Welcome back to am joy thirty five days. That's how long the longest government shutdown in US history. Lasted before the president who said he'd be proud to shut the government down finally gave in and allowed it to end supposedly temporarily, but those thirty five days have come at a huge cost for the hundreds of thousands of federal workers impacted not to mention the millions of federal contractors who will never be made whole for thirty five days government workers like the ones that you just heard didn't know when they would get their next paycheck putting their homes and their credit in jeopardy. Thirty five days were hard hardworking Americans with good honorable jobs were forced to line up at food banks just to put food on the table thirty five days in which important government functions. Like food safety inspections were at risk the government. Shut down even the gover- down even temporarily shut down operations at a major New York airport on Friday and caused long lines and long delays at airports across the country as unpaid air traffic controllers stopped showing up for work, maybe because they could no longer afford to put gas in their cars FBI agents warned about the impact the shutdown would have on efforts to stop terrorism. And members of the coast guard were forced to rely on charity. It's worth noting that the FBI agents who arrested Roger stone before dawn yesterday. We're also unpaid federal workers for thirty five days. Donald Trump put the country safety, and it Konami and his own citizens income security at risk and for what for vanity project. The now indicted Roger stone made up during the campaign. Donald Trump's speechwriters had him promise. Mexico would pay for Donald Trump shut the. Government down for thirty five days. And the one thing he said that is true. Is that he owns it. I am proud to shut down the government for border security. So I will take the mantle I will be the one to shut it down. I'm not gonna blame you for. Joining me. Now is in a Hosa president and founder of touro media group. Tara Dow del business and political marketing consultant Barbarez, former executive vice president at the Trump organization and author of a loan on the sixty eighth floor and David k Johnston, founder of DC report dot org, and author of it's even worse than you think. And certainly the shutdown was even worse than anybody thought. It would be involved. I want to come to this I because a couple of this table know, Donald Trump, personally, the pain that Donald Trump 'cause we were just talking to Tony Schwartz the last hour, and he talked about the tactic that Trump would sometimes use to empty a building that he wanted to develop of simply allowing misery to take hold in the building and making the building unlivable. So the tenants would essentially take themselves out of the building victim sounds. Does it surprise you? That Donald Trump would use that same kind of tactic on the whole country just to get a wall that he must know he cannot get. I don't think who's perception was that it was using it on the country as much as he thought it was using it on the house of the Democrats in the house representatives. And so yes, he will do anything to win. There's no question about that. And and he lost which is kind of cool. See no when he's lost is he aware when he has lost. I came must know that he lost this. I mean, he will never ever admit it. And maybe maybe he doesn't struggles admitting to himself. But he I think he is aware that let's go to some of the numbers number of paychecks. Most affected have missed two to twenty five thousand four hundred nineteen civilian employees were filing initial unemployment claims during a one week period. Eight point seven billion dollars the amount that can be taken out of the economy if that shutdown had actually gone to the end of the month and fifty three percent, which is the percentage of people who blame Donald Trump for the shutdown. Tara, I'm gonna ask you the same question that you having known Donald Trump does any of that impact him at all. Or or was this just I'm going to win this particular issue? And it doesn't matter who's hurting. He doesn't matter. It doesn't matter to him who's hurting. I mean. We know that he ripped off small business owners ripped off contractors continues to do so at the property as well, by the way, and who knows what other properties. So no, I don't think any of that matter to him. But who did it matter to it matter to some of those senators in swing states who are up for re election in twenty twenty. That's who it matter too. That's why you had six of them defect and others of them putting pressure on him as well. You had Republican donors putting pressure on Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump as well. And remember in the twenty thirteen shut down. It was Republican donors that got mad at their own party and put pressure during that time pre pre Trump. Yeah. So I think that's that was the shutdown was that the Ted Cruz initiate it. Yes. Yeah. That debacle one of the things that did come out of this is that Donald Trump's own team in some cases own family reveal themselves, and these are things that people weren't surprised by probably their attitudes. But I just want to play a little bit of the way that they spoke about the federal workers who were going through hell or shut down and take a listen. Mister secretary their reports that there are some federal workers who are going to homeless shelters to get food. Nobody really quite understand why tens of the workers who are coming to work and not getting paid. What would you say to them? Listen, this is it's not fair to you. And we all get that. But this is so much bigger than any one person. It is a little bit of pain, but it's going to be for the future of our country future of government workers. We're going to take medication days say between Christmas and news, and then we have shutdown and so they can't go to work. And so then they have the -cation, but they don't have to use their vacation days. And then they come back, and then they get back paid there in some sense. They're better off soon as this thing goes, switch turned on the payments will be made we will go back to normal. This is just a glitch glitch volunteers. Larry Trump saying a little bit of pain. These spoken like people who've never ever ever missed a meal who've never ever struggled extraordinary that they would say things out loud. So I wanna take a moment and actually tell you what I said to my students at depaul university in Chicago who are in this. They're all all the necks. And no they were not like their family did not work for the federal government their families in the sense of the other side of the story. What is this all about? This is about a wall that is to keep people like me, and my students and their families out is a wall that is racist. Okay. So that's why there's all of this human suffering. So what I say to my students say, look we're living through a really dark period, you're living through a really dark period that would be talked about four centuries your surviving it but understand that there's a context here. Right. So they the Chinese exclusion act in there wasn't a wall. But there was a Chinese exclusion act. Let's not forget how many Jewish refugees were refused entry when they were escaping Hitler. And this country was like, well, no, we can't have them. So this is part of. The long continuum, and sadly, those people who were not getting paid had this relationship now with something that is tied to racism and for me. It's like the long term impact on my students. Is there mental? You know, how do you feel about the fact that you wake up every day knowing this is all happening because they're trying to keep you out. The other side of Choi is that the the good news right is at this students are all highly politicized. Yeah. Much more politicized than they would have been two years ago. I know it and so it's like well, thank you. You know, it's interesting on that very point David Kay because. A lot of the kind of conceit has been that this is Stephen Miller acting through Donald Trump it he is so determined and Stephen Miller just one of the many aids. Dump Trump brought in who have this euphemistic alt-right right perception of the world where nonwhite immigrants needs to be locked out or even deported or had their even their naturalized citizenship taken away they need to be cleansed out because there's too many of them relative to the population. But Donald Trump is seems to be the most enthusiastic of all the policies that were fed to him by Roger stone, and others business the one that he seems to be the most married to are. We putting too much of it on a strategy that came from stone or that's coming through Stephen Miller and missing the fact that this is what Donald Trump is passionate about. Well, he's passionate about it because he was able to rally audiences to it. And he thought he could do something about it. Although he utterly failed at that. And should have wanted a wall built taking care of during the previous two years. But you know, we haven't White House full of stone cold racists, led by a man who is utterly heartless and doesn't care about you. Absolutely bizarre. The Donald Trump in his inaugural address promise that he would focus on the forgotten, man. Just put that up against what's happened in the last thirty five days and ask yourself just who got forgotten here. So he the applause he got he's now going to take a lot of heat from the right about this and Donald will come up sometime in the next ninety days if not less with a new story to explain away. What's happened? He's already done that I'm Barbara. He's now claiming that he's going to declare national emergency, which is previously been declared for wars terrorist attack Cuban missile crisis. He's going to use that power to get his wall made here here he is. So let me be very clear we really have no choice, but to build a powerful wall or steel barrier. If we don't get a fair deal from congress. The government will either shut down on February fifteenth again or I will use the powers afforded to me under the laws and the constitution of the United States. To address this emergency personnel. Nobody believes even Mitch McConnell as sort of obsequious as he is to Donald Trump is going to let them shut the government down again. But on David national emergency. You worked in the building side of the Trump organization. Does he even understand that logistically you cannot build such thing because he's promising something that you've got to know as a professional in this industry isn't even possible. Everything's possible. But the question is why is he asking for five point seven million? When this thing is going to cost fifty billion when it's going to cost fifty billion dollars. That's what bothers me. And why would anyone ever allocate money for a project that you don't know what it is this notice on says, no idea of what's bizzare real grand river that you cannot build a wall across. Well. Yeah. I mean, there are physical topology makes things. Absolutely will make it difficult. But it's not the idea that it's absurd in that. It can't be built. I mean, you know, so you can't build it down to the core of the of the people can't get underneath it either. But it was sewed about it is that we don't know what we want to build how much it's going to cost and the idea that this is a national emergency money. That's I think that's so offensive to a lot of people that the idea that anyone from Latin America Central America would want to come here and flee here for Silom is offensive to not just on Trump to his supporters. Right. So so so again, the wall is 'cause we it's been said on this network and other networks, perhaps maybe another as it needs to be repeated, which is there is not a crisis of people coming across on this border. That's not the crisis is that people are seeking refuge but undocumented immigrants seeking and coming and looking for work that is not happening the Mexican economy. I was just there rocking my Mexican airings it. Yeah, they are because. What Mexico an art and our economy in Mexico. Booby, right? So people are not actually leaving Mexico coming and look for work here. Central Americans are seeking refuge, and they are desperate. And what this wall really is about is not just the wall. But it saying, okay. So now limit all of the refugees that can come into the United States impacted forever. And you use that word cleansing it's very difficult word to here. But the fact is is that that's the way people feel and to be true to be honest. I was reporting the story of the building of the wall in two thousand and seven joy, George W Bush wanted to build a wall segments of it were built Boeing corporation got twenty eight billion dollars to build a cyber wall. A wall get us. Oh, twenty eight billion dollars. Came built a model on the floor of the house trying to make it out. I mean, just in closing the Nancy Pelosi factor. Right. She completely schooled him here. How do you think makes someone like Donald Trump feel they're very very small? First of all, the only thing may steal the Donald Trump. Got was Nancy Pelosi. That's fine. That's that's what's made a steal. But Trump clearly miscalculated I said on this show before and I'm going to repeat it Trump's around himself with the people and a lot of those. Yes, people are amateurs mercenaries, amateur mercenaries and criminals, and so when you have those people advising you they don't understand how congress works. They don't understand how Nancy Pelosi works. They miscalculated. They allowed him to believe that she was going to fold Nancy Pelosi was never going to fold and Trump. Learn that first hand he's been defeated Nancy Pelosi has emerged from this stronger. And I think that right now he's going to be looking for ways to lash out. And looking for things to do. But I think he realizes that. He ran up against as we say the wrong one. It's interesting, David Cain. That sounds like you're. The people he's dealt with. And then what he's dealing with. Now, Donald surround himself with people who will tell him what he wants to hear not what he needs to hear. It has to be simple because he's not that smart. He's terrible negotiator. I've had an ago she ate with many times over the last thirty one years and Nancy Pelosi is someone who is a general politics chinos strategy and tactics she knows how to keep her troops in line. And hold firm, and she isn't concerned by the immediate response of Fox News. As Donald is, which is what led us into this whole thing. Rupert Murdoch's Fox news. I will say somebody told me this morning. I think a very smart thing to say that those those gadflies on the right who really quickly told him what to do told me shut the government down. This is like their peak of power right now if they cannot punish him or make him pay for not getting them a wall where does their Power cO? So they're probably thinking about that as well. And also. Tara Dow Barbara risk David Johnson. Thank you very much and coming up that security clearance, Buchner waited over a you to get well, it may not shock you to hear this. But it turns out top level. Security officials never wanted him to have it at all. My name is Jared Kushner, I'm senior adviser to president Donald J Trump. Let me be very clear I did not collude with Russia, nor do I know of anyone else in the campaign who did so. I had no improper contacts. Donald Trump's son-in-law had so many foreign entanglements that to career security specialists at the White House recommended that he not receive top security clearance, citing concerns about potential foreign influence on Kushner, that's according to sources familiar with the matter. Ultimately, the specialists concerns were overruled by Trump appointee. Who also overruled concerns about at least thirty thirty three o other. Trump officials and unprecedented. Number to me now is my widely legal MSNBC, Barbara mcquade. Former US attorney and Malcolm Nance, author of the plot to destroy America. My ever heard of anything like this. There are four levels of security clearances. There's confidential secret top secret and sensitive the CIA has to grant you that really top top top one, and they refuse to give that to Jared Kushner, but this person who was situated in a position to essentially bring in people Carl Kline just overruled and overall and over and got him a never heard of anything like this. I've never heard of. Of anything like this. You know as counsel to the mayor of New York City, the mayor actually has to request some form of security clearance, just to have certain conversations with with Washington. You know, the idea that folks that are responsible for the national security experts would be so ignored in a context where Jared Kushner who remember has no experience in foreign affairs. Right. What he does have is a significant number of business ties, which is where you have foreign governments like China like Mexico like United Arab Emirates trying to figure out how to use and manipulate those financial interests right for their own. Even if Jared Kushner has all the best intentions, you would not expect to see that. But thirty people means you're really ignoring fundamentally you're experts in terms of how we protect the country, and these are non political experts in this gentleman was quite political car- client. Let me play for you, Malcolm. Bradley moss, and Rachel Maddow, did an excellent opening block about this. Very alarming fact about what Jared Kushner was able to get and here he is he's a national security attorney who specializes in litigation related to national security and federal employment and security law. And here he is talking about how impressive this what's. I'll say this in twelve years of representing people across the intelligence community defense. Contractors government, personnel, military personnel. I've never seen this. This is what we always feared. This is what we were worried was going to happen. When the president broke with the custom of not having not bringing his kids in upbringing family. This is what we thought it was going to happen the broad Jared Kushner, and they brought vodka Trump in. There were obvious clearly identifiable foreign influence concerns. Foreign personal financial ties extensive foreign context extensive foreign travel that the two adjudicators said no makes complete sense to me. You know, Malcolm has we put up a couple of the headlines that just happened wild. Donald Trump was president about Jared Kushner, discussed secret channel to talk to the Russians Jared Kushner, China's Trump card overseas contacts raise concern, it's foreign visuals. Seek leverage the wooing of Jared Kushner had the Saudis got into the White House as a national security professional yourself tease out a little bit more what Bradley Mazda. Say what is the what is the fear in the intelligence community of somebody getting a security clearance that they really ought not have. I'll tell you. I held a top secret SEI security clearance with special access programs, Jared Kushner, would have many many higher levels access of that. If he is working in the office of the president, the security concern is quite simple, and I have never heard of a person ever editing their actual SF eighty six security application form like Jared Kushner dig with believe over one hundred modifications to it that's because anyone who modified their clearance of application once had their clearance pulled and they were never given access. Also, Jared Kushner one of the concerns that the FBI had was at at the point where they were going to adjudicate his process they had come up with the term unclear -able. I had never heard of this term unclear -able that means that there is something in your background. Whether it's usually financial and your context with foreign powers that means that. You are national security potential national security threat to the United States. This is why the CIA would not allow Jared Kushner access to their programs because that means that he would either they suspected he would either give away. Top secret information sell top secret information or would compromise their intelligence operations, clearly whoever the individual was that maybes determinations, not just for Kushner. But for thirty other individuals was hyper partisan and to tell you to be quite honest. Every one of those people need to have their clearance polled immediately to make sure that none of them are spies or or selling this information. That is terrifying. Barbara mcquade. If you're Robert Muller, are you thinking about calling in Carl Kline and asking him about this given that what's being investigated? According to the New York Times is whether the president of the United States might be an agent of a foreign power. I think so and not just merely to look at whether Jared Kushner made false statements on his clearance forms background forms or are at risk of some sort of security concern, but whether this is all part of the same conspiracy. We wanted people to have access to this information. So that it could be shared with Russia as all as part of this conspiracy that in exchange for assisting the president and becoming elected there were certain quid pro quos that they would get an exchange one of which may have been the sharing of classified information. So I think it absolutely fits within the scope of that investigation. And so why Carl Klein is it's a legitimate question to ask him. Why did you overrule the opinions of career intelligence professionals thirty times in this administration? I think that's a fair question. My as well anywhere cybersecurity professional at eleven scaring carrying, but you're actually terrified me right now, Malcolm Nance, sharing information or selling information sort of. Worst case scenario, we know Jared Sada backchannel with Russia. There's headlines about how he would WhatsApp with M B S with the Saudi Crown prince this is actually quite alarming. It is there's an there's an additional point that I'm going to terrify you with right now, the counterintelligence professionals who were making these determinations that people shouldn't have it are now going to or have probably thought about this individual Mr. Klein to determine was he allowing a network to set up within the White House was he himself either influenced by hostile foreign power or influenced by political preference within the White House, and allowing these unclear -able individuals to come in there to set up like I said a network where they could be compromising the national security of the United States. If I was in counterintelligence at the FBI, and definitely the I'd be pulling my hair out right now because we all know Jared Kushner, as you mentioned in the previous segment, ask the foreign power to us foreign cryptographic communication systems. So he could speak behind the back of the United States government. You know, what the house needs to rip this thing apart because I think that. What we're gonna find this individuals for their own personal benefit may have been using this information that they were given access to that. They should never have ever seen before we go out. Just wanna mention that. We NBC did try to reach out to call climb to get comment. We were unable to get comment. This is Keri. Thank you my and Barbara, you guys are all going to be sticking around and coming up, Donald Trump and his longtime can sing Leary are engaging in something that could land them in even more trouble. And we'll talk about that next. It's about your attacking his father in law. Mr. Trump, Mr. Giuliani, you attack in his father in law in a lewd to him being a criminal because he's from the Ukraine. This is classic mob technique to send a signal to the individual who Mr. Trump has called a rat for telling the truth after during days of criticism endless tweet and verbal attacks. Donald Trump is TV lawyer Rudy Giuliani muggle coincide to postpone his testimony before the house oversight committee to take place next early next month, citing ongoing threats against family. But now looks like Cohen may not have a choice since the Senate intelligence committee has subpoenaed him to testify and his lawyer Lanny Davis, and you just saw Cohen will comply MSNBC legal analyst, Maya Wiley, former US attorney, Barbara mcquade MSNBC legal analyst Paul Butler and former special agent Douglas Cologne, and Doug, I'm gonna go with you first. You're a special agent in you specialize in labor racketeering, when you hear stuff like what I'm just gonna play right now to tell me if it sounds familiar to the kind of cases that you've dealt with take a listen. He should give information may be on his father in law because that's the one that people wanna look at because where that money that's the money in the family. And I guess he didn't wanna talk about his father tried to get his sentence. Reduced father. Whereas Ukrainian his father had has millions and millions. Of course, it's not I'm telling you it comes from the Ukraine. The reason that's important is he may have ties to something called organized crime Douglas making these guys. You you have implied threats, and you have the wreck threats in this case, you have the implied threat where you know, the old put your hand on the shoulder said, hey, don't worry about this that you never you know, what how your granddaughter doing? So she's still take piano lessons over on twenty third street and Park Avenue. She has a whole life ahead of her. That's the implied threat to the family. If you think about it. If you go back to stormy Daniels when Trump had Michael Cohen asks his fixer his job was to make sure he got someone to take care of the problems that Trump encounter. So if you go back to the time when she was in a parking lot in some of the cost her if in fact that was from Michael Cohen, he will be the person who actually sent someone to intimidate her. Now that cone is now outside of the Luke he's a log in the in the cocoon of the Trump. Circle. Now, he knows how people move. So he now thinks it may be coming out to his family saying threat goals towards your father in law who then goes down to your wife goes down to your children. So I think it's the same line threats and to your very point here is Lanny Davis Cohen's lawyer talking about just that. The family of Michael Kohn has been called out by Donald Trump once again, and he ducks or allies about what he knows he's done which is to attack a fodder in law and a wife as a way of getting to Mr. Cohen and that is called witness tampering. Obstruction of Justice Butler, if ironic as Douglas pointed out the Cohen used to be the die who delivered the implied threats. Now, he is on the receiving end. Does that in a sense make him a better arbiter of what it is? He's up against when it comes to Donald Trump. Does it? This case it worked because after these threats from Trump and Guiliani then Cohen says he's not going to testify. Ultimately, it's not as choice could be required to give testimony to congress. But the other irony is with Rudy Giuliani who made his name as a prosecutor going after mob families, and now he's acting like the same kind of thugs who we sent to prison, you know, joy if around the way do set to a witness yeoman, see your father in law that round that way do would be in handcuffs. It's shouldn't be any different when the president of the United States. Does it? In fact, it should be worse. Because this is the most powerful man in the world, he has the ability. He the Justice department reports to help. So he has the ability to carry out these threats even if he can't be died. It at minimum use of office, which is ground for. Peach. You can't just go back because we're gonna talk about Trump again. But I do want to go back to the point the Paul made about Rudy Giuliani. Barbara mcquade Ridgely had it was a US attorney the job you used to do as well when you hear him engaging in these kinds of tactics. I mean, a lot of people have expressed shock about what has happened to him since he was mayor of New York City. But what do you make of it? When you hear an attorney lawyer former prosecutor engaging in this kind of threatening behavior to I think, it's an absolute disgrace. And I think it also I agree that it does amount to witness tampering. I think that some people are maybe faked out by the fact that this is so open Torius ordinarily when you have these kinds of threats and intimidating lines. They come privately or behind closed doors. So they can't be detected. But here because they're on Twitter. I think it gives sort of the guys that they can't possibly be criminal because who would commit a crime in broad daylight. But I will tell you that when I was used attorney we prosecuted street gangs for threat. They made on social media about people who were rats and weak links in an effort to intimidate them. So all the statute requires is to knowingly intimidate to influence or prevent someone's testimony. So the fact that Rudy Giuliani and President Trump are saying this out publicly does not in any way minimize the criminality of it and my doing it in plain sight. I mean, everyone's noticing, and here's some Democrats who were talking about this intimidation. And what effect it will have on their determination to hear from him before congress. Oh, I'm sorry. We ever to intimidate witnesses scare family members or prevent them from testifying before congress textbook mob tactics. And we condemn them in the strongest terms it goes on to actually letter written by some Democrats says when our committees begin discussions with Mr. Cohen's attorney not appearing before congress was never an option. That's Elijah Cummings on the oversight committee Representative Adam Schiff on the intelligence. So this isn't going to stop Michael from having to be hurt. No, it's not gonna stop Michael Cohen from because he's going to be subpoenaed. He's not gonna have a lot of defenses to that subpoena. Congress has very strong subpoena power. The thing here to remember is Michael Cohen. We knew that he had some concerns about people. He wanted to protect because it was very odd that he didn't enter into a cooperation agreement with the US attorney's office for the southern district. And yet was giving them information. And it was quite clear that he was protecting someone which was also very public. And you have to assume that Donald Trump understood what he was trying to protect and recognize that he could utilize that. I mean, that's at least one interpretation when you add to that though that Robert Mueller is probably not very excited about Michael Cohen testifying because he's got ongoing investigations he doesn't want obviously anything that might interfere with that. So I'm sure that the Democrats are obviously having those conversations about how to protect the investigation, but very cl-. That there's intimidation here. Very clear. I absolutely agree with Paul that. This is an abuse of power and just remember member William bar, so the nominee Donald Trump picked to head the attorney general's. Turns out to be attorney general highest law lawyer in the land took the position that the president can be the prosecutor and chief at which they would use them as a defense saying we didn't intend that we're just directing prosecution. Douglas, one of the things that the speaker Pelosi and her statement, she just very Linke statement about the indictment of Roger stone. And it was about the kind of people that Donald Trump's around himself with and you know, you've already seen Roger stone threatening to harm someone's dog calling them a rat. Donald Trump using language or rat of anybody who testifies Paul Manafort and questions of whether he was afraid to talk about what he knows because of all the nefarious characters represented. There is a theme to all of this that feels almost like we're talking about to be blunt, a mob prosecution is that is that over the top to say that. That's what this is starting to feel like well, you think about it. You have the five families in the York and. Donald Trump was a developer in New York. So he had to be familiar with what goes on in terms of corruption with the labor unions. And no this percents percent. Five percent mob tax goes on everything building New York. So he's been familiar with that kind of behavior. So if you watch the hand movements that kind of hand stuff that goes on back and forth. That's sort of reminds me of watching some of the guys we used to deal with so looking at what's going on. Now, you start to wonder saying as he taking the same behavior and bring it over into the Oval Office because I think was Sam number said yesterday that Roger stone, you're not Donald Trump. You can't intimidate people like like like Donald Trump, you're not the president. So those birds of a feather who flock together, I think you see the same pattern going on right now. And my the idea that there was a time in New York City when there was this sort of emblematic idea of corruption of UNESCO corruption Donald Trump. Father operated in that world and got a lot done. Probably didn't pay a lot of taxes. He was opposed to pay. He's come up in a context of city government. He thinks he can manipulate. This is not what Washington is right now. No, it's not even New York is right or. Any change substantial the batter that's not to say there isn't continuing corruption. But there's no question that this was a deeply corrupt city, and yes and real estate, quite frankly, not all real estate, developers are criminals. This isn't what I'm saying. But the depth of corruption real estate transactions significant lots of money, very New York. Very very tough. Yeah. I think it's not coincidental. That we have not had a person of Donald Trump's particular background in terms of what he does for a living go to the White House because it's very exposing. It's a it's a sort of glass prison. Right. Everything about you comes out, my Wiley, Barbara mcquade, Paul Butler, Douglas Cologne. Thank you very much up next. If Nancy Pelosi showed us one thing this week. It's at a woman could be the most formidable adversary for Donald Trump and the latest woman to enter the twenty twenty race maybe taking notice that's next. My mother taught us long ago. She would say to me Kamla, you may be the first to do many things, but make sure you're not the last and when we look at where we are at this moment in the history of our country. I think our founders gave us the right charge. They said stand together take care of each other and serve your country as leaders, and that's what we do today. California. Senator comma Hera is already out on the campaign trail in South Carolina after confirming what a lot of oaks already expected this week she's running for president in twenty twenty. She now joins a growing list of democratic candidates bowing to take on Trump with dozens more potentially poise jump in the race. Don't even now is Donna Brazile, former DNC chair and author of for colored girls who have considered politics, and I've got the book right here. And so you obviously have done a lot of jobs, obviously, managing the Al Gore campaign running the DNC's. So you. You are just the expert that I want to talk to about this race. I want to start by talking about the idea of woman running here are the four that are already out there, comma, Harris Kirsten gillibrand lose with Warren tolsey Gabbard, what do you say to people who say the country's not ready for woman president that what happened in two thousand sixteen says that we're just not the country has been ready for women, president alone time, by the way, another woman Marianne Williamson, you may not know, she's a author, and she someone very inspirational. She is also out there in the Hawkeye state running its potential that Amy klobuchar will get in the race over the next two weeks. She she will be another woman that has a very strong background. And I do believe that perhaps more women my jump into the race. Look, this is a very historic for the Democratic Party. We will have a record number of candidates. We know that they're out in about traveling throughout this. Entry. But is America ready? Absolutely. Will happen in our lifetime. Joy, absolutely. Could have happened in twenty twenty. Yes. What would women candidates have to do differently because we know that women are judged differently? There are a lot of guys that are going to be in it Joe Biden could be in. It looks like Bernie Sanders they going to be in it. You've got a young guy. Indianapolis, mayor mayor in Indiana and Pete Buddha. Judge that might runs in Indiana mayor you're gonna have a lot of guys into bed. Oh, potentially. What would a woman have to do to outpace a field like that, Cory Booker, etc? First of all this is a race for delegates. So not rules understand that an audit to win the nomination. You have to go out there, and you have to build a coalition, and I think several of the women Elizabeth Warren commun- others. They're capable of building to kinda coalition. You need not just in the early four stays to Hawkeye state the grind state the Pell metal state in the seal state. But you gotta go out and build a strong coalition that can accrue delegates you've got to get on the ballot and me tell you I think one key she because super delegates will not be as prominent although we retain our voices not outvoting in terms of the first ballot. But it's important to go out there and get small Dona individual volunteers to get behind you candidacy. They have records of accomplishment, and let's just take a page from Hillary Clinton who received sixty six million votes in general election over four million votes more votes and Bernie Sanders in the two thousand sixteen primary Hillary head very diverse operation. She was able to get. Delegates not just in those early states. But she understood that you had to build a coalition in the south and you had to build a coalition midwest take a page from Hillary Clinton. And I think you have a recipe for success in two thousand twenty, you know, your campaign pro because you know, that nicknames of all the faith. That's how you know somebody's really been in the game. All over this country, so many presidential campaigns to lighten effect that you know, I get calls from my kids. Now, you have three hundred kids different daddies, get calls from my kids. And they're like, I'm thinking about jailbreak. I'm thinking about Clovis. I'm thinking about Terry McAuliffe, and you know, and then last night, I got one I'm thinking about Corey book. Joe by somebody in every Cam. Yeah. I mean, look Jesse Jackson Dick Gephardt, Walter Mondale. Michael Dukakis, Bill Clinton L at got them all running out of time. But I have to ask you because I know that you were running the DNC when that E mail hacked took place, and that you had a lot of scared people that were worried they didn't know what was out there. They didn't know who stole it didn't know what was going on. What do you make of the indictment that we've just seen about Roger stone? First of all our country was under attack in two thousand sixteen. It was a tackle democracy and yesterday use democrat party to throw the first sallow it was a cyber attack. But it had a very strong impact on. On the net just a twenty sixteen election, but it's still impacting our country. Now, I would hope that these individuals will tell the truth will face jury and help us as Americans get our country back on track. This was an attack on democracy, and they should go to jail, Donna believe in due process. But let me tell you this was an attack on our democracy. And yeah, and I know, you know, a lot of people who were personally impacted. Yes. This is the book for girls, y'all need to know about the colored girls have a very storied history in American politics. Thank you so much being here. Thank you joy have a great weekend. All right coming up at the top of the hour behind the scenes look at mar-a-lago and its role in the Trump presidency. But I. Boy. That's our show for today. We'll be back tomorrow at ten AM eastern up next. For instance, Rivera. Hi, it's Stephanie rule. If you love them NBC where your heart on your sleeve gear up with t shirts. Hoodies hats and more from Belgian rule and all of your favorite MSNBC shows at MSNBC store dot com.

Donald Trump Roger Roger stone Roger Roger Roger everybody Rogers United States Trump president Sam Sam Trump Randy Hillary Clinton Trump Tower Moscow WikiLeaks Larry Trump Roger it Roger I Julian Assange Robert Muller Michael Caputo Barbara Paul Malcolm
Part Two: Roger Stone: Evil Genius or Sad, Broken Boy?

Behind the Bastards

1:05:54 hr | 1 year ago

Part Two: Roger Stone: Evil Genius or Sad, Broken Boy?

"This is Ron burgundy telling you to listen to my podcast. Here's a little something to wet your appetite. You know, we have we have. So the whole crews here. Okay. All right. Okay. So you defecate it was reduced to my basic animal form. Romburg any podcasts available. Wherever putt guests are found. It's me Robert with the show Evans behind the bastards. This is the podcast that this is where we talk about the bad people, so fi you look very confused. They can't all be what's cracking my peppers? They're not all going to be perfect. I am Robert Evans. This is behind the bastards the show, we tell you everything you don't know about the very worst people in all of history. My guest for part two as part one is Tamika Thanh. Tay doing. Join the conversation. Are you ready to learn a little bit more about Roger sto? I'm ready. Learn more and ready to sleep less easy. Yeah. Well, that is the Roger stone guarantee. So one of the reasons I might believe the claim that Roger stone was a major influence on Trump's mind is the fact that he and Donald Trump really do have quite a long history of working together. Despite Donald Trump's do that's in twelve comments. That stone was a stone cold loser. He was happy to continue to work with the van after his nineteen ninety nine Reform Party candidacy failed in two thousand while he was helping George W Bush and Florida Roger stone also took time to help Donald Trump with a new pet project. A grassroots anti-gambling campaign. It was targeted at the mohawk nation. The tribe had opened the casino on their land in New York state and planned to open another casino in the Catskills at the time, Donald Trump owned three casinos in Atlantic City. The northeast's traditional gambling up clearly the mohawk nation represented a threat to this earnings of Donald Trump, the ad stone designed arm pretty on the edge. As far as racism goes. We've got a clip of one of them. Here which will have on the side by the bastards dot com. It says in big letters drug dealing at Monticello Monticello, whatever Thomas Jefferson's creepy house, and it's got like a picture of like a needle in lines of cocaine like a bag of drugs. And then it says quote, the Saint Regis mohawk. Indian tribe proposes to open a gambling casino at the Monticello racetrack and Sullivan county. How much do you really know about the Saint Regis mohawk Indians? According to the New York Times u s and Canadian law enforcement officials broke up the biggest cocaine trafficking ring in northern New York operating on the fourteen thousand acres Saint Regis mohawk reservation. Twenty six people were arrested. Police also confiscated nineteen shotguns and handguns and it goes on. Like this saying Indians are criminals that's the fear among they're just like the border crossing where they used pictures of people crossing the border in Spain. Yeah. Just lies about women being duct taped and stuff. Now this this ad which is pretty offensive is noted on the bottom as a project of the. New York institute for law and society you ever heard of the New York institute for lions society. Nope will claim to be a grassroots organization made up of twelve thousand pro-family donors, just you know, they don't like gambling. And he's been wanting more casinos in their neighborhood. The reality is that you could probably have counted. The actual number of donors using one hand Donald Trump put up virtually all of the money somewhere around one point five million dollars. Trump signed off on the ads and the language used in them and paid the bills for the private is stone hired to survey the tripe the whole operation was Rodgers plan because this organization violated Newark laws on lobbying because you're not allowed to pretend that something has a bunch of funders when it's just one guy who's doing it. So that his own casinos don't have competition. You're not supposed to do that. So the state investigated they wound up sitting down with Roger stone in interviewing him. Here's the L A times. Quote, stone told state investigators that he thought the public might pay attention to a pro-family group, but not to Trump allowed in longtime critic of native American. Gambling who is trying to stave off competition for his three casinos Antic city. You could hide Trump's actions from the public the investigators grilled stone. And you did that over and over again. Yes, stone answered each time. Finally, adding nothing is wrong with that. By the way. They're actually was something wrong with that trumpeter stone were fined two hundred fifty thousand dollars for breaking the law and required to pay more than thirty thousand dollars to run statements in Albany area. Newspapers was nothing for them. Yeah. It's just nothing for them. Yeah. This is the text of the statement, Donald Trump, Roger stone, and Thomas hunter apologize. If anyone was misled concerning the production funding of the lobbying effort that did not apologize for the ads content. Now over the next fifteen years there were dozens and probably hundreds of other stories like that. Roger stone developed a special hatred for Eliot Spitzer attorney general of New York from nineteen ninety nine hundred thousand six and then governor of the state and do this and seven now Elliott was born rich like shocking number of US politicians and his father had pumped millions of dollars into his career back in the mid nineties rhetoric in the time Elliott was elected governor. He threatened to release records about Republican Senate majority leader Joe Bruno there was basically like a rumor that Brennan had been using state aircraft to aid in his reelection campaign and Spitzer was going to lake release records that would prove that or not. And I think Bruno was eventually found not guilty of that. I'm not sure, but he was also later found taking a bribe and then got off on a technicality, but totally received like four hundred thousand dollars from some guy anyway. So so Joe Bruno Republican Senate majority leader of New York did not like Eliot Spitzer these guys were at each other's throats and in order to get back at his political enemy and to distract from his own corruption charges Joe Bruno called up Roger stone and offered him twenty thousand dollars a month to end Eliot Spitzer's career Roger gleefully dove into this effort to destroy another person one June morning in two thousand seven Elliott's eighty three year old father Bernard who suffered from Parkinson's woke up to find this message on his answering machine. Bernard spitzer. You will be subpoenaed to testify before the Senate committee on investigations on your shady campaign loans. You will be compelled by the Senate sergeant at arms if you resist the subpoena, you will be arrested in brought to Albany. And there's not a God damn thing. You're phony psycho piece of shit sun can do about it Bernie. You're phoning loans or about to catch up with you. You will be forced to tell the truth. And the fact that your son's pathological liar will be known to all. Yeah. By the way, that is when I quoted in the first episode Donald Trump calling him a loser and saying he's a liar and everything that's why. Because actually Donald Trump liked Eliot Spitzer's dad, and it was like actually like Donald Trump was morally offended by this message. That'd be a hard line to hit it. It's pretty gnarly to eighty three year old, man. Yeah. An ill eighty two year old who is the father of the guy. You don't like an attack him that way? Well, you got paid to you. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah. He didn't like him. But it's like his jockey paid to destroy his son. Not dad like how does that help you deal with Elliot's Switzer, he's just a gross person? Now Roger claims that that's not him. We're going to dig into that a lot here. That's as much as suits or him. That's a pinstripe voice. I will let you know what we'll put in a link to that particular audio clip on the site. It includes after the the voice mail several clips of just Roger talking shirt for yourself. That's fucking Rogers sound so ham like Bernard Spitzer hired a PI who traced the call back to Rogers apart one stuff. Like, it's it's definitely Roger stone in less your Roger stone. Now, Roger has always denied making that call. He has in some recent interviews quietly said it does sound a lot like me. But he blamed it at the time on former stand up comedian in radio host. Randy critic. Oh, now, we're going to be talking about Randy credit co a little bit later today to. Yeah. Yeah. Ready credit co was like a comedian. He was on like Leno. Sometimes he did like improv and the stone was basically like he's so good at doing fake voices. He pretended to be this guy in this guy. It's clearly him pretending to be me in credit. Co was. Like, I haven't even talked to Roger in years. Why would I do this, which why would you do something? So mean and evil comic one thing to be like that funny. Maybe this comedian called up the governor of New York to leave a machete messages someone else. Okay. I can imagine that happening like Opie and Anthony, but his dad why and the and there was no there's no Gellew in at all. It's just cruelty. Yeah. Now stone in credit co had met back in two thousand three in Randy hit introduced Roger Al Sharpton Sharpton hit hired stone to help with his two thousand four presidential run. Probably in the hope that Sharpton campaign would take votes away from John Kerry. Roger would later tell the Washington Post, quote, critical became convinced that he should get paid for introducing me to Sharpton. He refused to do. So stone continues because well credit co is a cocaine addict and stone knew that any money. He gave to the guy would go quote up his nose. So Roger stone leaves this really gross message. It's obviously him he blames it on a friend of his that he has. Talked to in years and also says the guy's a coke addict. Now, this may sound a little bit familiar to course. But also Roger stone when it came out that he'd been putting up sex ads in magazines like no, it was my housekeeper. Yeah. Like and Trump thrown his on his own son-in-law under the bus. No singer. No one is safe. Yeah. It's a gross weight live. It really is in the only way you can live that way is if you have more money than God. You don't kills me is all my life. I've grown up watching these Hollywood films. And I always just a sense of Justice is what kept me happy. Yeah. Believing in things like karma believing that things come around. This is a movie where the bad guy went is winning so far and Mike. Why is this movie so long why why is this movie my entire life? Gotta get it. In the middle of a horror movie ask such a jerky. Like, I can't wait till he dies. 'cause I know it's going to be something horrific. The Paul Manafort story has been there for me because just like seeing him denied to wear a sued recently like hill and clearly not healthy. And just like yet die in prison. Paul. I'm violently angry about Paul Manafort, I spent time in Ukraine. Yeah. And I saw a lot like Roger stone's a piece of shit. But like, maybe this makes the episode weaker. But no one will ever match the hate that we do on the show that I have for Paul Manafort, just let's deserve it. I mean, look how many millions. He's literally responsible for millions of millions of. Oh, yes. Yeah. I mean, millions of deaths civil or going for a decade longer than. Yeah. Yeah. Conservatively five or six hundred thousand deaths in that conflict alone for money for money for when he didn't need all the money you need. He needed already. I could talk shit about. No, no, no. I mean, I I get I get really worked up when we talk about Manafort, but it's also worth noting that like there's almost a way you could say Roger stone is even grocer. Because at least Paul Manafort was getting involved was in the trenches dealing with those people Roger stone, which just cashing their checks. Just like, yeah. I don't give a shit where this money comes from. So you could say that's grocer. Yeah. You could say that's grocer. Maybe it is. Now Randy credit co is going to come back into the story a little bit later. But what's important right now is that Bruno fired stone after this voice mail came out, you know, but Eliot Spitzer wound up going down. Anyway, it's kind of debatable as to whether or not it was Rogers dirty tricks that were responsible that there was a federal wiretap in a New York Times report about him that revealed he'd been spending tens of thousands of dollars in high priced prostitutes. And his big thing was like he sleeps with prostitutes while wearing a sock. Doc, that's Roger stone. Dow's rod Vatsa stone detail, Roger stone repeated that detail to every newspaper in the goddamn world's heady. It's very pellet. Jerry's has a really subtle understanding of how humanity works. Yeah. Something that like, even if I was that sort of a person, I wouldn't think that that detail would matter. He knew that it totally did. Yeah. And we don't even know him. Maybe he made that detail. Maybe just knew that something that will stick in their heads. But I also see that one being true because Eliot Spitzer undoubtably lose hanging out with a lot of prostitutes. Sure, which I wouldn't have an issue with if you hadn't been an attorney general and thus responsible for prosecuting prostitution is. But it's debatable. You'll hear people say that stone dropped the dime on Spitzer to the FBI. And that's why there was the investigation. And that's where everything came out that he did bus Spitzer this way. I haven't found hard proof of that. There was definitely a federal wiretap in New York Times report about him, it's entirely possible that Roger. Stone that his main contribution was dropping that story about the socks and that like he just sort of like, oh, this is a happy accident. I really don't know. But it seems pretty likely that he had a significant role in Spitzer's political downfall that does seem likely for sure all the tales of Roger stone's crappy Lenz over the years prompted the New Yorker to write a profile of him in two thousand eight I that article is the first place at least the first major outlet were Roger started talking about what he called stones rules. These include such chunks of political wisdom as he who speaks first loses attack attack attack, never defend admit nothing deny everything launch counterattack. And when I hear the word culture, I reach for my revolver. Wow. So there was another one there's a lot. There's an endless number of the one that makes my skin crawl is that hate is a greater motivator than love. And that's the one that makes my skin crawl because that is the Trump campaign. Yeah. And every campaign he's been involved. I mean, that's fascism, man. Like that's the core. Ideological not that. I don't think Donald Trump is an ideological anything. But that is the core of that political philosophy hate and fear a hell of a lot more powerful than love. Yeah. Although Hitler would have said, no. It's the love of the Volcker whatever that is. I don't know. I'm going to argue with dead Hitler. Reasonable men in Hitler can disagree. I'll let you win. Yeah. Taken stand there. We all win against we do. He's said we're still here as you're stupid suck on that Hitler. Yeah. With your baby mustache, you free. Stupid mustache. I don't know. Like, I part of me wonders like if Hitler hadn't ever been Hitler. Would that mustache be around would like we all have a friend with in east Hollywood for sure Philly people dip their toes with the Hitler, youth hair. The dip their toes. I mean that shaved on the sides. Look is nice. Yeah. You can you can work looks nice comeback. But yeah, it's baby moustache. Jason it's baby. Moustache jason. I know it's one of those things where like at the time. It was like this. We're way off topic. But that was considered like a working man's mustache is you don't have to groom at or any an honest man's mustache. And so that's kind of like what Hitler was repping to everyone. God, I'm just a normal working Joe. Like you. Yes. I think that's the thing that he sees the way like a great athlete or a great shafir. Great artists can see things that normal. People. Can't see I think he sees these subtleties. He sees like a naked man wearing socks and goes. That's not presidential. Yeah. That's ridiculous. Does desperately silly. That can hurt him. No one will take him serious. Having this in their shave my moustache. So they look at me and say, I'm one of them like he's got that kind of. I n if we're looking at what is there some aspect of what I I have a part of me believes that anyone is prominent is someone like regionals become there is an aspect of genius at play. Like there is with half Tallec Jones. Yeah. You you have to otherwise they become too powerful. Yeah. You have to allow yourself to have a level of respect. So you can figure out how to deconstruct them. And I think you've I didn't really figure it out when I was writing this. But I think you've nailed what it is that his geniuses is recognizing those. It's not the actual tricks. He plays. It's knowing how to present things in a way that leave in Delobel image in people's heads. And I think the Spitzer thing like really focusing on those socks that he's wearing all these fucking these call girls. I think that nails it. I think that's like what he's good at. Yeah. Yeah. And we'll that will actually be talking about some more stuff like that a little bit later. So yeah. Roger stone's starts in like the early two thousands talking about stones rules all the time. Every interview. He does he'll drop the rules. You know? This is my rule. Here is my rule here. This is much trying to brand himself. Here's a quote from the New Yorker, his outfit comported with two of the rules in his book stones rules for war, politics, food fashion and living, which he hopes to publish soon. Never wear a double breasted suit and a button down collar and white. I just love the idea that it's like such a Michael Scott thing to do is have the name of a book that you haven't written that Utah to an interview for Sesa Mason. Yeah. Michael scar. Just like because I started looking up that book. And I was like, oh, he hadn't written that with this came out just trying to make it a thing. I am proud to say on behalf of Roger that. He did eventually, right? Kind of that book. It wasn't the same title, but you can buy it. You know stones rules how to win at politics business and style from the info wars store right now. Unbelievable. Yeah. It currently has twelve reviews. So wow, got really be on the ground area. Low for this is the copy. And he's covering is weird bird lips as covering his weird bird list. Got like his his hand at his at his lips or something. Yeah. He's a he really. I think he's trying to cover those jowls or something. Interesting choice that he would cover up half his face such an arrogant, man, it shows you simultaneously, arrogant and insecure nobody who's obsessed with fashion can be secure in their. Yeah. I agree. Nobody who fucking worries about what they're suspenders are called secure in their physical form. He's he's the opposite of the cat that stares in the mirror that sees a lion as a lion that stares in the mirror and sees a cat a little baby kitten who he so weak. Yeah. That's what all this peacocking is like an old lady that used to be really sexy, whereas the miniskirt, and you're like, that's not you this guy sixty six and he still calls himself a quote, unquote, tough guy. Well, and it's like he also needs to be attached to some bigger, man. He he doesn't do anything on his own because he's in. He's the kitten. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Whether or not it's Alex Jones, Donald Trump. He's. Always attached to somebody. Exactly, he sees the sidekick. Yeah. He's kind of like a chronic sleazy sidekick of right wing firebrand exam here. Like Darth Vader had a talk show he'd be evil at Vic, man. Yeah. Yeah. He about right now that two thousand eight New Yorker interview also revealed that Roger stone had in two thousand seven gotten a photo accurate back tattoo of the head of his hero. Richard nixon. The article also noted that stone tans twelve months a year in drinks four triple expresses every day stone talked about his recent move to Miami saying it's a sunny place for shady people. Yeah. That's a good quote. The man could turn phrase every now that was that's a good one. It is a good one. Yeah. And you knew he was an actor for a while in high school. No, I didn't even run across. Yeah. He's an he was an actor for a short time in high school, and when he got into politics, he he said this. He said, I then realized that axiom politics were the same. Oh, see like a lot of people had that experience. Now more than ever with the transparency the internet's creating I mean fucking Ronald Reagan. Yeah. Very true. Yeah. Road bedtime for Bonzo right to the Oval Office. Let's just make it stop before the rock. That's all I want. You know, what again, not the worst case scenario anymore. Sure, I've had enough Robert. Why not? You smell with the president is good. I can't take that. We soothing to just have a nice person in there. Yeah. I mean, maybe the I'm sure the climate will continue its unheeded acceleration into in sustainable like like greenhouse nightmare. But at least the president could be friendly. Hey, right. Hey, right. I think that should be the minimum requirement. We should have someone whose character is at a level that we just go. Okay. This is a decent human being who is at least trying for the good of the country like Jimmy Carter and actually like no one else. But like Jimmy Carter. Well, he's he's a nice person. You're not a great president. Okay. So we are going to continue talking about Roger stone and get into his downfall. I think it's fair to say downfall. I agree. It is going to be the most satisfying cathartic part of this podcast. Amen. But I, you know, what's even more cathartic than the downfall of a monster. Tell me I was just thinking about catharsis. Wonderful services in products that are provided by the advertisements in front of. You know, people say necessity is the mother of invention. But that's not always true. Sometimes the mother of invention is advertising. Yeah. Or pure accident. How about ego maniacal delusion? Absolutely. Or just a desperate longing. To be cool. I'm Robert lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. We're the host of the science podcasts stuff to blow your mind. And now we're branching off into the exploration of invention. Invention is the story of human history told one piece of technology at a time the things we made and how they made us invention publishes every Monday, listen and subscribe to invention on apple podcasts the iheartradio app or wherever you find your podcasts. We're back listeners while those wonderful ads that you were spending your money on we're running. We started to suspect that Roger stone's greatest crime. May in fact, have been appropriating the phrase, it's a sunny place for shady people from someone else. We've found a sunglasses line in a book or the book came out after that interviewed it so it's hard to say Roger may have stolen that line from someone. Yeah. So he's going to do that research, and we'll we'll get back to you or not. If nothing interesting comes up, we won't get back to you. And pretend this didn't happen anyway. So in two thousand eight while he was doing that interview. It was not a great time to be a Republican in politics. You know, Bama had just kind of bum rushed the McCain campaign. Yeah. It didn't look like they're publicans. We're going to be back in power for a little while. I'm black man. A white war hero Beatles. White war hero, and whatever Sarah Palin is. And yeah, it was a it was looking like a rough time for Republican political Asher. So in that interview. Roger stone noted quote, the left has done a better job of dominating the new space. We're week on the web so little foreshadowing their question about the McCain campaign. Roger stone advised, quote, an acceleration slash and burn campaign against Barack Obama Obama and his wife are elitists in their week. They don't share middle class values middle class Americans are proud of their country, and they are not he thinks he's going to sit down with Iran and HAMAs. How do you know, he's not gonna shake hands? With the suicide bomber you can't sit down with people who don't want to sit down always going to do is raise taxes, which is going to give the government more money, but it's not going to create any jobs. Remember stone said politics is not about uniting people. It's about dividing people and getting your one percent. Wow. That's Roger stone and Paul Manafort, and motherfucking nutshell, you know, what it might be his own thirst for attention the attention. You never got from his dad that's going to be his downfall. Because he's he can't not speak to the press. He's underestimating people. Yeah. He even though he said he said this plenty of times that his target audiences. Not the elite is not the sophisticated is not people who study or read up on politics. But now he's underestimating their ability to read things about him and for them to still be hypnotized. So here he kind of spinning off of that. I'm not sure if it's underestimating them or if it's a fundamental. He can't understand politics is not about politics to him. It's about the same thing. A game a monopoly. Yeah. Getting into a game monopoly. And so he is incapable of realized like, no, Roger the things that you are doing have are impacting people's lives in horrible negative ways. When these politicians and they put in these these shorts. Needed policies that fuck up in lead to all the terrible things that these different politicians you've supported over the years have done like win these things impact people's lives. They get angry. And then they hear you talking about like dividing people, and they're like, I can't talk to half my family were all screaming at each other. Like, you can't understand what it's like to be in that situation because none of this means that to you. Yeah. Where the United States of America and to hear like a campaign manager or political strategist for the president of the United States of America that his tactic was to divide. Yeah. A country whose foundation was about uniting. Yeah. It's just so heartbreaking. Well, it's one of those things you couldn't until recently get away with like you remember when a Barack Obama was running and he made that comment about people cleaning to their guns in their bibles. That was a huge. I was still very much in the right wing media bubble at that point in time in my life. And that was a huge issue being like, and he and then there's good reason to be pissed about that. If you're if you're a bible believing Christian if you're someone who grew up shooting and has done that your whole life and live in a place where like, yeah, that's an offensive thing. They stereotype and he had he had to address that shit in any presidential candidate up until twenty sixteen would have had to face consequences for a statement like that a guy like Roger stone has never had to because he's not a candidate ever in. It's almost never transparent who he's advising. And so he's never had to be that. Careful Jay think we're getting to the part of the story where that bites him in the ass. Yeah. Yeah. So it's worth noting before we move on from the two thousand eight that during that election, he formed the group citizens United not timid to oppose Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign. Literal, acronym Kant. Yeah. Oh, nice guy. Roger now and two thousand ten two years into Eliot Spitzer's political exile. Roger stone's struck again after being laid off you'd apparently found another set of backers wealthy Republicans his description who paid him to make sure Spitzer's political career stayed dead. And this is where the after Spitzer's already at this where he started talking about the socks like this is where he started spraying that myth, and he claims that he was like at an adult club and met a girl who is friends with a girl who'd worked with Spitzer. And she told him the story. It's it's like I was talking to my prostitute friend. And she said this is how silly this two years after Spitzer's out as governor because he's already been disgraced. Yeah. So unbelievable. Yeah. Anyway, Roger stone's seems to have grown less cost. And careful in his golden years. Maybe it's the corrupting influence of social media. But over the last decade, he's racked up a pretty horrifying compilation of sexist remarks. Here's media matters. Stone tweeted that New York Times columnist Gail Collins is in elitist cont MSNBC host Rachel Maddow is Rachel. The muff. Diver Fox News is Meghan. Kelly has a nice set of cans and Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz is a Jap acronym for Jewish American Princess thought that was going to be one kind of racist. But with another who is every man's first wife. He also tweeted diabetic at former New York Times executive editor Jill Abramson and said he would kill himself if he was married to screechy, and she'll Carly Fiorina the sun sentinel, also reported that stone called Florida politician. Barbara stern a self-important nasty Kant on Twitter. So lest I leave the impression that Rogers bigotry is limited to women. Here's a bunch of racists, stuffy, said stones tweets include attacks, like stupid, negro, fat, negro, arrogant know, it all negro uncle, Tom. Mandingo and house negro stone tweeted that commenter Roland Martin is a stupid negro and a fat negro commentator Herman Cain is a Mandingo. And former Representative Allen west is an arrogant know, it all negro he also tweeted that commentator Al Sharpton is a professional negro who likes fried chicken asked if former Republican presidential candidate. Ben Carson was an uncle Tom in referred to himself. As an inward with a Nixon tattoo. He did not use the phrase inward those uncomfortable paragraph to state, but this is all stuff Roger stone said mostly by Republicans. He's just no they rejected him. Yeah. They reject the mainstream wants dead. Yeah. Mainstream Republicans rejected him, and he's attacking he's he's a hurt man. Yeah. He's a he's a hurt man. And in two thousand fourteen he got his chance to push in pain back out into the world that is the year when Donald Trump again to execute his campaign run for president. Now, roy. Richard stone was reportedly Donald Trump's number one consultant for the early stages of his bid, according to Joshua green, the author of devil's bargain, a book about the election, quote inside Trump's circle this power of illegal immigration to manipulate popular sentiment was readily apparent and his advisors brainstormed methods for keeping their attention adult boss on message the needed a trick. And a monarch device in the summer of two thousand fourteen they found one that clicked according to Sam Nunn Burke, who worked with Trump during this period Roger stone, and I came up with the idea of the wall, and we talked to Steve Bannon about it. It was to make sure Trump talked about immigration, initially, Trump seemed indifferent to the idea, but in January two thousand fifteen he tried it out at the freedom summit a presidential cattle. Call put on by David Bossi's group, citizens United one of his pledges was I will build a wall and the place just win. That's. That's what you're talking about. It's like with the socks knows. That's something. That'll stick in people's exactly. You gotta drive them. I think that is his major contribution hundred percent hundred percent. That's why even when he's fired people keep them. So Roger stone stole his catchphrase about Florida from a nineteen forty one novel O M, Somerset, mon- or Mongan. I don't know how to pronounce it. But I've seen that name before. Wow. Yet, another uncovered you. Shady son of a bitch. So. What's funny to this is almost like when you go to jail, and you don't want anybody to mess with you. See just throw human poop on you. Yeah. And everyone's scared to touch you. I think he plays so dirty in so gross. That people are like, I know he's doing something legal, but I don't wanna fight with him because he fights like a homeless person. Yeah, he's going to bite and scratch and stab. He's it's so bizarre. How broken this guy? I didn't think during this conversation out actually feel sorry for this guy. But that's what I do. There's a deep core of sadness to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It becomes clear. The more you dig into like what he's done his whole life. That's the Justice is. Yeah, he wants us to think he's strong even calls himself, a bodybuilder and tattoos of man's face on his back that he thinks his strong, and really he's just this insecure. Weak broken laroque little boy. Yeah. Yeah. They all are at some. Yeah. Yeah. Now stones time with the Trump campaign did not last. All that long in August of two thousand fifteen after a performance in one of the Republican primary debates that was wrongly considered to be disastrous for the Trump campaign. You remember that? Yeah. Yeah. Roger quit or was fired. Roger claims he quit at least Trump says that he fired Roger Roger says that he quit and basically fired Trump from anyway, it's. Who knows they each side? He was getting too much airtime for Trump's tastes. But was not the hypotheses that might be part of it. And it might also be that after that. Roger also thought that things were going badly with the campaign and didn't want like be attached to it anymore because it looked bad back. Then for John. Nobody was guessing Republicans were yacht, grooming. Get Trump out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people were angry. So that may have been why that happened. He was trying to anyway, this was not the end of the stone. Trump relationship though, according to one version of events, at least Roger stone was responsible for hooking Donald Trump up with Paul Manafort who at that point lived in Trump Tower, but did not actually know Donald. Well, some people say that stone is the guy who pushed Manafort on Trump, basically in order to give himself an in with the campaign that he'd probably been fired from if true this would be inappropriate reversal of Rogers agreement to act as manafort's proxy in the younger publicans so many years before it's nice little bit of symmetry. Yeah. It would be nice. If the only person either of them is capable of doing a single altruistic thing for. Is the other? If like, the one nice thing Paul Manafort every did was for Roger stone and vice versa. Like, it's funny. You know, I think when Manafort got hired I think in the documentary was stone who quoted his quote win Manafort got hired was back in the saddle again. Yeah. Like humpback. He knew that was his way back into the campaign. Yeah. And it does seem like and we'll see how things go now. But it seems like four a while the two were pretty good at being solid with each other backstab a lot of other people, but they were usually on the same side of things when they were both involved in the same thing. Some of that maybe that Manafort was really more overseas, you know, after like the eighties regularly second episode of survivor, but in DC. I mean, that's kind of. A union attack everybody else. Yeah. Just Roger stone and Paul Manafort against the world, the only smart member of that group in the long-term turned out to be black who has just got rich and decided to commit more crimes. Oh boy. Now, most of what we are going to talk about from here on out Roger stone's relationship with WikiLeaks and the impossibly criminal behavior. He engaged in on behalf of the Trump campaign. All of this is very controversial. We don't know exactly what happened yet. Because obviously the Muller reports not out there are competing versions of vents in competing suspicions of how things went down one thing. That is crystal clear about this time is that Roger stone was instrumental in bringing Alex Jones and Donald Trump together. Which again, that's why I brought up about conspiracies early. Here's always had that thing and starting in about two thousand thirteen he analysis Jones start being buddies eventually becomes a he's an Infowars employee for the last three years. So he's he's like hosting a show. He's reported there. He's making probably twenty twenty five grand a month. And I do want to I want to plug quickly here. Knowledge fight the podcast that talks about Alex Jones shows just did a fantastic episode on all of this year. If you go to knowledge fights website at knowledge fight are. Just look them up on Google knowledge. Fight the January twenty fifth two thousand nineteen episode. They're going to a lot more granular detail about this than we're going to because we're kind of covering his whole life. They this moron his shadiness with WikiLeaks. It's great. I really recommend it. But yeah. So it's unclear when exactly Alex and Roger became friends, but it's very clear that Roger was the reason that Donald Trump sort of got keyed into the fact that info wars existed at all because I don't think Donald Trump was listened to a lot of info wars in the nineties or whenever now in December of two thousand fifteen Donald Trump's showed up on Infowars and praised Alex Jones as having an amazing reputation as the two thousand sixteen election picked up steam stone became a more frequent guest on info wars on August. Fourth two thousand sixteen he showed up as a guest on the Infowars radio show at this point, Alex Jones was telling his listeners that Hillary Clinton was about to resign as a presidential candidate under the shame of a massive criminal indictment now at this point and number of hacked DNC emails had already been released via WikiLeaks st-. Tone claimed on air on August fourth to know about the upcoming release of more hacked DNC emails on WikiLeaks. He also claimed to have spoken with Donald Trump on August. Third more recent releases as part of the molar investigation if shown that on the fourth the same Bastogne was on info wars, he emailed Trump adviser Sam Nunn. Berg and told him he'd had dinner with Julian Assange the night before which if you're keeping track would be the same day he claimed to have met with Trump. So. When we talk about evidence of collusion. There is some definitely speaking of collusion this podcast colludes with a number of fantastic sponsors that help keep the lights on and allow us to do this show. So police collude with us bringing you this information by colluding with capitalism to purchase products. This is Ron burgundy telling you to listen to my podcast. Here's a little something to wet your appetite right now, I'm a little terrified because I don't know what a podcast is. Let's take some calls caller number one year on with Ron burgundy, what's on your mind. No callers. No. Because people aren't listening in time. Schick got it. If you are listening to this and have downloaded by mistake. Please turn it off. Now, turn it off. No, we have we live. So the crews here, okay? All right. Okay. So if you're Taurus, your horoscope is come on pull you together Kelly. I saw you defecate. I was reduced to my basic angle. Rumba? Vailable whatever podcasts are found. All right. We're back, and we are talking about Roger stone on the two thousand sixteen election now over the course of two thousand sixteen Roger stone repeatedly played the role of hype man for WikiLeaks release of democratic campaign documents as well as Clinton advisor, John Podesta's emails on August twenty first he tweeted trust me, it will soon be time in the barrel. Hashtag crooked Hillary shortly thereafter, Wiki leaks. Published a cache of John Podesta's leaked mails. Roger frequently spoke on ener, info wars and wrote articles on Breitbart pooh-poohing, the idea that Russia had anything to do with all these hacks and pushing the narrative that goose for two point, oh, the person behind the DNC hacks was an independent activist hero in stones telling and not an agent of the Russian government now on election night, two hundred sixteen Roger stone's celebrated with his good, buddy. Alex Jones, the two drank champagne and saluted the dawn of a brave new era, but for Roger and probably for Alex to the end of the fun times was finally ni-. Donald Trump's upset victory. Got a lot of people to start looking much. More closely on whether or not there had been any collusion with WikiLeaks or the Russian government within the Trump campaign it quickly became apparent that USA for two point. Oh, wasn't fact Russian operative. He fucked up and gave investigators the digital equipment of DNA evidence that he was a spy, and of course, later leaked chat logs revealed that Roger stone had been communicating with him. Same thing happened with WikiLeaks. It's again still a little bit unclear. Exactly how all of this maps out. It seems like what happened is. Roger stone was communicating with a guy named drew Coursey who was one of the major origin points for like the birther bullshit methane and who also had connections with WikiLeaks. And that was his go between he was sort of working directly with WikiLeaks that way, and he definitely there's also been reports that he was sort of selling himself to the Trump campaign since he'd been kicked out as an adviser as a liaison to WikiLeaks and was coordinating with the campaign, probably with Steve Bannon. Yeah. That's what it looks like what's happening again. It's not exactly known. So it looks like. Yeah. Roger stone was working directly with Jerome Corsi as well as communicating with WikiLeaks one on one in communicating with USA for two point, oh in order to sort of coordinate the release of leaked documents with you know, the the the presidential campaign to hurt Hillary Clinton. Now wind all of this became the biggest news story in the country, which it's been for more or less the last two years. Roger suddenly started claiming that he had not in fact had direct contact with WikiLeaks or Assange, which of course, multiple times during the election. He had talked about unless radio shows and podcasts talking with WikiLeaks and stuff, but he had not been consistent about this. But he suddenly started lying once the molar investigation kicked up and began claiming that rather than talking directly with WikiLeaks or communicating in colluding like through with jerem Coursey his contact with WikiLeaks. He hadn't been collude pleading with them directly. They just had a friend in common stone claimed that that friend was Randy credit go now. Which again is the exact same thing. He did when he got caught the last time he did something science fiction the way these characters come back around now stone testify to the house intelligence committee in two thousand seventeen that this was the case and the recent indictment handed down by Bob Muller. Makes it clear that this was yet another lie. Stone was charged with witness tampering for telling critical things like stone wallet plead the fifth anything to save the plan. That's Richard Nixon quote by so win. Basically stone lies and says that credit co is his source to WikiLeaks. And he's telling credit co keep this lie going when you get in front of the house intelligence committee and his way to tell him to commit this federal crime is to send him a quote of Nixon telling someone to commit a federal crime that we have one of the things that Nixon got caught doing and his why he got impeached. It's really funny because he also always says history is prologue. Yes. Shakespeare has his prologue prologue. Yeah. And and in the tempest and the. Shakespeare speech when the guy was saying the character was saying that I remember the character. But when he was saying that it was way to excuse murder. This frigging guy like his code words are like so easy to decipher his cO word. And this is literally another guy committing the same time as commit exactly like he's such a dummy. Roger don't use that don't commit crimes through. What's I this is a different jump that? He's made the than the past year. And this is a lot dumber. Yeah. Past he also said things like if you turned over anything to the FBI, you're a fool. He threatened credit coasts service dog Bianca saying he would take that dog away from you. You are a rat. A stool you back stab your friends. Run your mouth, my lawyers are dying to rip you to shreds. I'm so ready. Let's get it on prepared to die, expletive. Now. It's worth noting that when questioned about this by mother Jones. Roger stone's stated that his words are being taken out of context. And we need said. Prepare to die motherfucker. He'd meant that credit. Co was dealing with cancer. So I should say. They should just really bad lies. She says, and it's even worse. Oh, I don't mean. I'm going to kill him. I mean, you guys and I'm going to remind him of that. Yes. I'm a prick. But I'll take his dug a he's Roger it's so funny too. Because at first I went, okay. This guy doesn't even like animals, he's he's a dick. And then the very next week when the FBI raided his home, he's likely upset my wife the upset by dogs. He's barely dot above that, you know. You know, a lot of people are he didn't say I'll kill your dog. So maybe he's threatening to duck demand service animal fair. Now like, you don't want different. Now is the old campaign was ally. By any means necessary. I'll do whatever I need to do to have this side of the country win. Now, he's like I don't care if it's another country. Yeah. That once as long as I don't get in trouble on his I don't get in trouble. So before it was like, I'll have the conservative side versus the liberal side. Now, it's like all have an enemy of the nation. Yeah. Skies. He's gone from from corrupt person to a traitor. Yeah. And and to a traitor who like in the months leading up to this on Infowars would regularly urge President Trump to essentially assume dictatorial powers and shut down the FBI investigation and stuff, and it's like that's a line. Roger that reassures the question for a lot of people are like for an outside of Trump really knows how to play the game Trump doesn't know how to play the game. He just. Knows how to find shady people in sunny places who know how to play the game he knows when to listen. And when you're in real estate, nobody cares because everyone in the real estate business is a criminal. And it's fine. We're fine with that. For some reason, not my milk, Long Beach, Susie. Thanks, susie. Sorry for John a mustache on your memo notepad that I got for free. She strangling a dog right now. Oh real estate agents hit us up on Twitter estate agents. Tell us about your favorite crimes that you've committed your all Nazis role, Nazis all real estate agent Nazis. Is the stance of this podcast? Now enough of the claims Roger stone made before congress were proven false that he has been charged with at least five counts of making false statements during his testimony. This is in fact, other than witness tampering like this. That's all of the indictment. So far have been like you lied, and you threaten to somebody who's going up like a federal witness, which you can't do. Now, it appears that the main downfall for Roger stone that got him busted by the FBI was his unjustified trust in the program. What's app, here's a quote from ours. Tamika it's vote. He believed that what's app, which he used as a secure phone line in for messaging would protect us communications from the ISO investigators for getting the people he was talking to could just show the messages to molars team at a grand jury. He also left an Email trail of his alleged misdeeds seemingly spanning a mile wide after WikiLeaks released Email stolen from the Democratic National Committee and July twenty second two thousand sixteen quote, a senior Trump campaign official was directed. The context own about any additional releases in what? Damaging information WikiLeaks had regarding the Clinton campaign, the titans states in return stone reached out to multiple associates in attempt to communicate with WikiLeaks and Julian Assange and obtained further Clinton related emails on July twenty fifth two thousand sixteen Stony mailed Coursey the subject line was get to Julian Assange. The message read get to Julian Assange and Ecuadorian embassy in London and get the pending WikiLeaks emails. They deal with foundation allegedly really jed don't leave text evidence of your crimes. Yeah. Everywhere. Roger glad he did. And then threaten the people who you've have an equal copy of all of the evidence of your crimes don't do that. You know now as a kid once I killed a cockroach, and I left his body there for the other cockroaches to see. Yeah. And that's what I want him to be. Yeah. I want him to be that cockroach I want him to be a cautionary tale Gladis getting caught. I want him and Manafort, I want a lot of cockroaches strung up on a lot of wall. Because I'm worried about the what they're inspiring. You know what I mean? That's they've gotta get. And that's why whenever people it's the. Same reason like whenever people like some ninety six year old Nazi gets found out in. They're like trying to extradite Embiid. Germany and people like, well, he's ninety six. No take him to court. Yeah. Let him die on a plane mcevers. Make it miserable. Make everyone else. No. This is what happens when you do crimes. We'll get you eventually. Yeah. Yeah. Now, this is the point at which I think we finally get an answer to the running question for this whole episode is Roger stone, actually, a political mastermind evil genius. Or did he just associate himself with a successful people and do a good job of hyping up. His BS contributions his behavior in two thousand eighteen was definitely the behavior. Cornered man growing increasingly panicked about coming legal smack downs. His appearances on Infowars grew more common. He would regularly attack the Mueller investigation as being part of the deep state cabal frequently begged President Trump to make use of extreme executive powers to fire rod Rosenstein and shut the whole thing down. It also seems to me at least that stones rhetoric grew more Pakalitha is the noose tightened. Here's a clip from him in late two thousand eighteen you will have a spasm of violence in this country and insurrection like you never say, you know, question, you think he'd be page like the country are heavily armed, my friend. Yes. Absolutely. The this is not nineteen seventy four. They. Be the people will not stand for impeachment of politician who votes for it would be endangering their own life. There will be violence on both sides. Yeah. Threatening people. He's threatening an apocalyptic civil war, and sink any politician who voted. Yeah. For it would have their lives threaten. Yeah. It's he's sending those are dog whistle messages threats threat. It's not even a fucking pig's ear throwing right at like a bunch of I dunno to finish that analogy. But you get my point. Most of stones media appearances over the last year seemed to have been a way for him to advertise. His go fund me legal defense fund. This fund has raised so far about seventy eight thousand dollars in the month. It's been up Michael Caputo, a former Trump campaign adviser infringe of Roger stone actually started the campaign. He claims that stone has lost everything in the ongoing legal battle. Politico noted that the month before stone posted an Instagram picture of himself on a beach smoking a cigar and wearing designer sunglasses. So probably a ally like everything else registered whatever said one group at least has stuck with Roger stone in the wake of his indictment arrest. The proud boys. Stone started using them as his personal security for events in two thousand seventeen and eventually went through what they call their first degree initiation. He just go to my was the day to do this and their whole initiation is around like claiming the like, I'm not going to apologize for creating the world as a western man. I don't know. I don't think it's a coincidence that he picked Cinco two mile. I think there is anything they can do to be bit more racist. It's really even even the idea of a white Ray. Says ally. Yeah, there is no white race. It was a construct. No, no such thing hanging out with the Russian hanging with an Irishman. It's not the same thing in the in. The proud boys are a little smarter than the white race. They Clinton western civilization. That's their all. Because then you don't have to be white, but you can still essentially snooze welcome to the MRI then embrace your Middle Eastern side because that's what Iran is Iran is supposed to be the birthplace of the real white people. That's why it sounds like area. It's iran. Yeah. So so get your white loafers out. And you're Capri one hundreds. Yeah. And start calling people my friend, if you really want to be the origin of white, comment and way, better cooking, lamb way better. Cooking cannot cook a damn land in this country to save our lives. It's just it's it's all a trick. It's winter powerful white man tells a poor white man that he's just like him. It's hypnotize ING, but that's exactly Roger stone talks about as a young, man. Like, I'm going to be the bridge between working class white people in rich white people that makes that's exactly what he's always been about. Yeah. Yeah. So of course, he would like the proud boys. One prominent proud boy is currently selling Roger stone. Did nothing wrong t-shirts when he was arraigned last Monday. Several proud boys provided an escort enchanted their vocal support of the man, we haven't talked much about Roger stone's style obsession in this podcast. I just it. It's not really funny. Like, I read a bunch of what he wrote. It's just like pretentious stuff people who care about suits and whatnot. Which if that's your thing. That's fine. Everybody's gotta have a thing. But there is a way in which that became a source of some shot and Freud for me starting I think in the nineteen ninety stone became increasingly enamored with ostentatious outfits generally dressing, like someone who lives to fight Batman. He became the daily caller's men's style. Correspondent and also writes ten best and worst dressed list every year and most of these columns stones header image is a picture of himself dressed as wielding a gun like JAMES BOND. He clearly views himself as a slick bad as political operator in wants others to see him that way to that reputation has been punctured by a long series of dumb mistakes, many of them in his appearances on Infowars. Mistakes, claiming exiled Chinese businessmen. Whoa. When we had been convicted of financial crimes donated illegally to Hillary Clinton. Steve bannon. None of this was true stone and Infowars were sued for one hundred million dollars and last year. Roger stone was forced to make an on air public apology for having failed to do proper research. He's almost seventy. Yeah. That's what I keep reminding myself the way he behaves. Yeah. He's a grandfather. He is a grandfather he's almost seventy and this is how he acts. This is how he behaves. This is the philosophy. He has that. He's a a spy in a bad ass and use all this tough guy language, and really he's the one who sees himself naked and weak and his bones getting softer and has muscles starting to sag. He can't beat time. No, nobody can nobody can make me. So well. Owlry? Patrick stewart. Other than Patrick's what nobody can have your. He's really nailed time eight maybe a greater motivator. But love makes your skin look better when you had older. Yeah. Oh, man. He looked so good. He looks great. Yeah. Yeah. Now, despite all of Roger stone's claims to being a sly, bad ass, brilliant, Nick Sonian, style political operator. Roger stone has proven to just be bad criminal who got lucky for awhile. He's not a bad ass. He's just bad in the wake of his indictment. Roger stone has whined incessantly about having roughly as much force used against him in his apprehension as a small time pot dealer in Texas stone complain that he wasn't called ahead of time to give him a chance to dress up. And look his best for his the cameras. Instead, he was photographed in a simple blue polo shirt when he was released later that day he had to give his press conference looking like a normal elderly man and not the penguin from. It is a moment of great shot and Freud for me, and we are going to in the episode by playing the clip of his press conference love it and arrested defined shoddy Reuter what's taking pleasure in the misfortune of others German high. It's a great word. I didn't. Eric. Well. I have always said the only thing worse. Is not getting talk to. Ten year position the charges today relate and low way to rushing collusion WikiLeaks elaboration or any other illegal lack in connection with the twenty sixty campaign. I am falsely accused of making false statements during my testimony house committee. That is incorrect any. Era. I made in my testimony would be immaterial and without intent. I far, right. I wanted to. Yeah. It's it feels good right? Feels good. It's like for your soul. So it makes me believe in God. And Santa Claus lock him up. Locked him up sounds. Oh, it's so nice. It's like a pizza after smoking weed. Yeah. So satisfying. I'm not normally a big fan of chanting as part of a crowd. In a fun of crowd chant as part of and believe me as an Arab in America. The only time I like people chanted USA USA USA is during the Olympics. Yeah. Outside of that go into lock him up at Roger stone, man. Oh, it's so good emotional bubble wrap is also pleased that eat it all does a letdown. Give me the bread to suck up the saw. Yeah. Yeah. That tastes good tastes good. At the end of this this gross tail. So didn't fries shot and Freud shot in Freud idea? Taking pleasure in the misfortune of others that great German work. Great word. Yeah. They're they're really great at making single words for things. Although this is like the joy of seeing Justice. Yeah, there's a little bit. Like this justified beginning of it anyway. Yeah. It's the start of process of Justice that hopefully leads him dying in a cell. Yeah. I'm a big believer in rehabilitation. But if you're seventy and doing the shit Roger stone's been doing for the last couple of years. I couldn't agree more probably not gonna get rehab. I agree not allowed in society anymore seemingly Paul Manafort. You know, if you're if you're crime. Is selling drugs or even beating someone even even accidentally killing an individual even killing someone in in the in the throes of a sudden rage. I believe in some sort of like rehabilitation for you. But if you're crime is conspiring to thwart the liberty of millions of people around the world. I don't believe in rehabilitating that hundred percent agree. Yeah. Hundred percent. It's a it's a crazy thing to see someone who can that. Like, you know, I I came from a dad that was abusive, and he had PTSD from war, and I had a drinking problem and everything against him. But I could always look back and say, I understand the dynamics of abuse. I understand that he was abused to. Yeah. And then the guy that bidding was like a vampire and I had to go to therapy. So it could be like one of the vampires. Twilight like there was a shirt there was a 'cause there was an origin. And that's why you're great at baseball. Yeah. Exactly. But with him you just look at this. And I still at the end of it, even if their satisfaction. I just go why it's a sad story. Yeah. Is it usually is with these guys? Yeah. Yeah. And there's really like it's a man who I don't think ever had anything at the center of himself that he was proud of. So he was proud of his ability to do things for other people here admired, whether an I I people who didn't know him like when he's he's lying about Nixon that can get you know, his class devote for JFK. And then he gradually gets like the first one of these guys that he works for that. He gets anywhere close to Richard Nixon. He just loves the rest of his life because Nixon spent time with him like he wasn't a part of Nixon staff, they like hung out together and stuff. And so I really do you. See he doesn't say a lot about it other than like fawning praise for Nixon, but you see pictures of Nixon and Roger stone, and he very much has that doting son look and hundred percent and. Even his office is like a shrine shrine, Richard Nixon mixing, it's so crazy isn't even be one thing. Like a guy like LBJ who like killed a lot of people in Vietnam. But you could also be like well, but then there's the Civil Rights Act, and I can see how someone could like even with this guy's really problematic legacy. I could see how someone who worked for him could be still loyal to that memory Nixon. And and some of the stuff some of the stuff he kept was like Neg anti Nixon stuff that shows. He just doesn't care about. He just. Way. Knicks lawns attention about. Yeah. Yeah. Just wants attention because it can his parents were never right. Exactly. There's always a thin line in the show between trying to give it a tailed history of these people psychoanalyzing can't avoid it entirely though. When you read quotes like how Roger describes his childhood, and then just see what is adult life is. I mean is life couldn't have been easy? He was a child with doll hair. Yeah. That is that is a child bodybuilder with the Nixon tash body. This. Imagine a shrunk version of him. That's it. He's always been that. He was always had that tattoo you. I was back even we was breastfeeding. You know, one of the great forever. Untold stories of history will be the sheer impact and damage that insecure male egos have had in our society on place, where you wouldn't expect it you wouldn't expect Dwight D Eisenhower didn't give off a lot of impulses of being an insecure, man. But then you see what he was doodling when we overthrew Guatemala when he heard that like he'd successfully instituted a coup in this country, and he drew a picture of himself young and swale like muscular next to a battleship flexing. And it's like yet, dude you had some issues that's not normal. I mean, we're our whole lives. We hear how how hard it is for women that they lose their beauty. But we don't talk about fading power. Yeah. You know, I grew up in a really rough neighbor. Nice to be a scary looking guy sleeve tattoos, but I'm a nicer person. And I go to go to therapy. But the one thing I miss is. When I. I walked down the street that people move away from me 'cause you're like your big and must stuff. Yeah. There's something about that is much as I hated who. I was back then I miss that feeling. Yeah. I mean a human pit bull. There's not a lot of training in our society for young men to get used to the fact that they will someday not have the kind of physical power. They this is I mean, I really admired my grandpa former grappa was a really big guy. Six foot five six foot six of mine that and he was he was military most of his life fought in Korea was like a very big very imposing, man. But the last ten or fifteen years of his life was just completely debilitated with Parkinson's didn't really move. But I never got never ever ever of all of the emotions that I saw him. None of them was anger. None of them was like lashing out at people over the fact that I could tell he was frustrated obviously on being able to control his body anymore. And I don't think a guy like Roger stone or guy like Dwight, Eisenhower, whatever I don't think. I don't think they got that at any point then editor. Okay. You're going to be able to control the world around you less as you get older 'cause that's just life. And that's why we have society and civilization. We all work together to take care of each other because we'd get weaker. We need more help, you know. Yeah. They don't get that. That's where libertarians covers dangerous dangerous language in our society. This a friend of mine reminded me the other night, like boys don't cry is at Fraser turns us and amend. The don't talk. It's like women grope with impossible, physical standards. But really men grope with impossible motion ones. Yeah. And when something bad happens a little boy, if he's not able to talk Kenny turn into something evil dark and twisted upside down, the if the alternative, which is admitting like weakness and in pain and a need for help. If that is literally unthinkable because of the society he's been raised in like, yeah. What else does he do? But like get violent. Yeah. Yeah. As like a worldwide problem. I agree. I agree. One hundred percent. I went. College in Sweden. I saw a movie there. It was judge Dredd shit. Yeah. The original the original. Okay. The good I was going to call it. So as class wasn't starting for three weeks. So he went to see dread. And it was rated X. And I was like she learns making porn. So then I wasn't going to watch it. But a bunch of people were going in. I'm like screw I'll go in. I regular movie two weeks later. I see a movie with a Swedish French Swedish movie rated PG does nephews next to us. And I got pulled down his pants and his penises out there, and he's shaking it around. And and I'm in shock kids. Just eating Swedish Swedish fish. Yeah. It's just a pain. It's just a penis, whatever. And then my son goes, I forgot you from America. Yeah. You guys rate your movies by sex? We read or movies by violence. Yeah. And I just felt like a monkey no. And it's. It makes more sense. Yeah. It really does. And there's a lot of. I mean, we could we could we could go down this rabbit hole for forever. So we're well off. I mean, don't apologize because it's it's a subject. That's never not interesting to me. You know, it's the difference between as a little kid. I started shooting guns when I was six or seven my uncle came over, and he taught me how to shoot, and we did some hunting and stuff like that. And I don't think that's unhealthy. But I think playing with guns the way I played with guns as a little kid was unhealthy. I think that's bad for you. I think that like fetishes -ation violence and power and then coming into a world. And I think there's this video games give it to you to where you used to in this one little aspect of your life. This fantasy aspect having all this control. And being able to be the arbiter of who lives in dies and all this stuff, and you go into the real world where you have none of that control because it's the world and there's other people doing their own things. And you can't just be. That's where the all right comes from is that like dichotomy that likes mental disconnec-. I think you're right. I think people masturbate to the alright the way people who don't have sex mastery. Two porn stars. Yeah. They're behaving away in doing things that I can't do. But I wish I can. Yeah. Yeah. It's that's why these guys focus on Nazis, or whatever you just got got rid of all the people. They don't like because all these little kids in their rooms. Just have a bunch of hate for people who won't go away the way their enemies in the game. Well, yeah. And I guess that's why Roger stone embraced the proud boys in the outright so definitively because at the end of the day, he didn't have video games to grow up with. He is that guy. He is that guy wearing fancy suits and calling his suspenders braces. So that he could be better than everybody in control his world more. We brought it back around. It was great background. Your your poet to me you want to plug your bills. Sure, if you're looking for live comedy with a political bent, you could find all my life shows in and around LA and around the country at tamra, Catan dot com. T A M. E R K A T A N, my podcast is they tried to bury us every week. We have a new American origin story from a different immigrant, and I'm tamra cat on all things social media. And you invite me on the twits, the tweet at I bright. Okay. That's may on the on the towards and you can find this podcast on the internet at buying the bastards dot com. You can find us on the social means at bastards pod. You can buy shirt you can buy a Cup. Very cool shirts by thank you, very great shirts. You can buy a scale models of the spaceship from aliens all from t- public dot com. All branded with our don't tell James Cameron, then it's very illegal. But for a limited time until we get a takedown quest. We will be selling all of that stuff. James Cameron has sex in bikinis. Really? Well, Roger stone's said it. Oh, well, then it's got to be true. That's got to be true. Well, let's all lead you guys on that on that absolutely true note from from our buddy Rogers sound. It's the Ron burgundy podcast. It's the Ron burgundy podcast. Guess what? I got up gas. And you don't guess what I got up gas. And you don't Ron burgundy. Podcast. Join me Ron burgundy on the Ron burgundy podcast driven by safe auto, the only car insurance company I'll ever use it takes three minutes. And let's face it. That's about all the time any of us should spend with a car insurance company.

Roger stone Roger Roger Donald Trump Bernard spitzer Paul Manafort Rogers Tallec Jones president WikiLeaks Hillary Clinton New York Times Roger sto FBI Julian Assange US New York Richard nixon Joe Bruno cocaine
Ep 289 | On Air with Roger Stone

The Chad Prather Show

44:40 min | 2 weeks ago

Ep 289 | On Air with Roger Stone

"President. Trump has a huge announcement for his top supporters. We'll be celebrating the two thousand twenty Republican. National Convention this summer and he wants you to enter for your chance to join him at the convention. If you win, the team will cover the flight hotel and give you VIP passes for yourself and Aghast. All you have to do is text chat to eight zero two two today for your chance to meet President trump at the convention again. That's HD two, eight, zero, two two to enter to win this once in a lifetime opportunity to be his special guest paid for by Donald J trump restaurant inc.. It's Martini time. Mom, that's right Roger Stone's on the show today we're going to get the lowdown skinny straight from the man himself on all things crazy corruption roger. Stone's going to be with us, but before we get into that extended interview I want to remind you tack pack is the Premier Monthly subscription box for military tactical preference Second Amendment enthusiasts and And just for forty nine ninety five dollars a month. You're going to get at least one hundred dollars worth of gear, sometimes a hundred and fifty two hundred dollars worth of stuff from different companies like five eleven sons of Liberty Gun, works, mission first tactical arms beck, and a whole whole lot more. They're going to send out ar fifteen parts and accessories. Tools knives and gear to keep you prepared for when the stuff hits the fan in its splattering all over the wall right now, the June boxful as physically the biggest box ever now the upcoming July box the heaviest so may and June both sold out very early, so you need to sign up now to get the heavy box for July. You're going to get over one hundred bucks worth of patriotic gear and. And you need to use the Promo Code Chad. C. H. A. D. at checkout and receive a free extra bag of tactical goodies that way they'll know we sent you. It's going to ship out with your first PAC, so don't wait. These are flying off the shelves attack. Pack Dot COM TAC PACK DOT COM sign up today. Tack Pack Dot Com and use offer code. Chad will be right back with Roger Stone. Hey, guys welcome back I. Know One of the biggest things that happens these days. Is You get bombarded with news stories, a lot of fake news stories and things. that come at you almost at the speed of fought whether it is with twenty four hour seven day a week, news cycles or with social media. You don't know what to believe. You get confused these days especially with the last average well ever since two thousand sixteen and the election of Donald Trump. You don't know what to believe anymore. So when I discovered is the best thing to do. Is Get it straight from the horse's mouth. Get it straight from the person who was actually involved in the situation. So we're GONNA do that. Here's a guy who's made plenty of headlines. Of course you know who he is, but what's the story? We're GONNA. find out welcome to the show. Roger Snow Roger Look at you in that Tom mix at you look fantastic man. Sharp, Dresser. Outgunned today. I. Bought this what I was going back and forth to Austin when I was working and Info, wars yeah I. Chance to wear wants Jones may so much fun of me that I never word again at work different county. It's great to be I. Love it I want to go have one of those things that. You can't buy those off the shelf. That's for sure I. Think I, ask you. How many hats do you think you have? BEEN COLLECTING HATS Hidden. So I probably have a couple hundred hats. Most of you know in secondhand shops, your thrift shops or you can go online. There's a lot of hats available on Ebay used hats obviously. Interestingly enough about my father passed away about five years ago now. And he lived in New York. Clearing out his stuff. My mother said all my father's hats. I had no idea that by father had the exact same bed size. Till I inherited, you know. All kinds of great stuff, top hat Homburg. Hat and so on, and they have some sentimental value as well but. You know. Hats are. The problem of course is that you get here. We go on TV but other than that. I like hats. Yeah, I saw you on a recent interview with Sean Hannity and you weren't wearing a hat and house thought. Who is this guy? I didn't even recognize you, but I love it. I've always been a hat guy. People give me a hard time about it, but it is what it is, you know people have their own style, and you certainly have yours one place. You can't wear a hat. My largest federal prison and that's where you were headed. Had it not been for this commutation, but I wanNA I. WanNa back way way up and I. Want to hear from you. What happened? What's the story? Why did they come after Roger Stone? Well I'm glad to have that opportunity because I. Think you know Chad. Gag unconstitutionally for sixty months the judge had this theory that might be able to defend myself on social media, or on shows like this one somehow taint the jury pool, which is a pretty ridiculous idea in view of the fact that the Washington Post which is the dominant newspaper in the city from whom the jury would be selected was tainting the jury pool every day. Not My favorite to say the least so I guess this really begins in nineteen. See in one, thousand, nine, hundred, Eighty, eight was the first. Point at which I realized that Donald Trump who I had met in Ronald Reagan's campaign for President when I was signing in with New York state. Has the capacity and the strength. And the vision and the independence and courage. And the stamina in fact to be not only great presidential candidate, but a great president. In one thousand, nine hundred eighty eight choices were George H, W, Bush and Michael Dukakis which is extraordinarily weak Joyce. And I wrote the idea with the Donald. which is what he told me to call him. and. He looked, he said you're on your mind. You know I love this this. I love real estate. I love what I'm doing right now why? Would I want to jump in the? He didn't say swamp them because our our job in the middle of that. And I said well, you are complaining. About? How Lousy these candidates are and he said to. Well, you're right I could do a better job than any of them. And if Iran I win, but I've got too much on my plate in terms of real estate and things I want to do. but we talked about. We continue to talk about it. We talked about it again in two thousand. At that point. Ross Perot, who had run as independent twice in got a lot of votes. Jesse, Ventura, the former wrestler, a by then governor, Minnesota but it did friend of Donald. Trump's from his days wrestling at the Trump Plaza Atlantic city neighbor bowls pushing donald trump to run as the reform party Kennedy third part in that time. We actually made some exploratory travel. Country step was towing order, but he correctly determined that this country unfortunately one has to either be Democrat or a Republican elected president there too many institutional barriers, legal barriers, and so on I wanted him to run in two thousand twelve in the worst way, because I took one look at Mitt. Romney and I realized the answer. The question was donald trump right Mitt Romney phony individuals I've ever seen in American Bob. Man This guy is phone is air caller. And Not Conservancy was. You would never say I'm severely conservative, not conservative whatever? As severely conservative I also thought he would lose, and of course he did. Then, twenty sixteen at all kind of the time met the man the moment that the man. What I liked about. Donald trump was his incredible independence. He doesn't ole anybody in other words. He's the first person in my lifetime got to the white. House without knowing wall. Street with insurance, industry or the gas and oil, industry or the banking industry are or any special answers. And he's tough issue in being either worked for I. Worked for Richard Nixon and Bob Dole. Great Patriots tough guys but Donald. Trump is tougher than either one of them. So I had. This long relationship with Donald Trump and then I helped I, worked initially set up his campaign, but then I was publishing my book. The Clintons War on women. which is the definitive opposition research dump on bill and Hillary and Hillary's daughter Chelsea. and that probably put target on my back. The became very well some through in the trump campaign. Campaign very hard. Independently of the trump campaign liked sneaking writing talking so. Then, on inaugural inauguration day, twenty, seventeen, January twentieth, there was page story above the fold in the new. York Times. Trump associates wiretap in Russian grow. I was named as one of the three. I know nothing about this. To this day. The time refuses to retract the story and the government continues to insist they have no idea. What did your time talking about? The, surveillance of doesn't start until much later. I don't I'm not sure. I believe that. By the end of two twenty, seventeen, we started having this drumbeat of stories clearly leaked by the Muller. Investigation that Roger Stone was going to be charged or was under investigation for treason espionage. Eject conspiracy against the United States. So you hear those Rogers when you hear those accusations, what level of of I know the disbelief this there, but what level of fear rises up in you when you hear a word like an accusation of treason? Well I wasn't afraid because I knew that there was nothing done twenty sixteen in my perfectly legal efforts to elect donald trump to be misconstrued street in. Whole attitude was these people on Vendetta they have an agenda. They're not gonNA. Find evidence of any of these crimes. I didn't really see how badly this could end, but then I didn't understand how corrupt the mother investigation was I didn't understand how corrupt the court system was I didn't understand. The extent to which I would be able to defend myself, and I underestimated the connection between the corporately owned media. In the in the the two party duopoly the Keep if you. Would to silence you. It just snuff you out, so you felt like this was the accusation just totally out of left field? I couldn't figure out what they were talking about round. This is largely based on the fact that throughout the campaign I after the democratic prevention not before. But afterwards I started taking interest in what wikileaks is doing. Everything they had released was authentic. No one's ever question whether the stuff that they had obtained a was real. It was all newsworthy I where they obtained it. I mean the New York Times. The, Washington Post The Wall Street Journal they get classified information and publish it all the time, and they don't tell you their sources. I did to a great extent on my twitter feed, which was quite lively. That went ahead about. Five, hundred fifty thousand dollars I definitely teased it in other words. I want the mainstream media to sweep it under the carpet so I would say. Pretty much public reports. wikileaks disclosures coming in the future. It will be devastating to help each day to. Nothing there out the source and content with the. Fellow I knew on radio. Ninety Randy credit go. who kind of a mess say Lisa. Progressive Radio host, but we've been friends because we both opposed the stupid. Failed War on drugs, which is an expensive, ignominious racist failure and that was our common bond He told me he had a source inside the legal structure wikileaks, and that whatever was assigned city had on the air with Anderson Cooper in June. It was bay, said it's really based. GonNa rock the campaign, and he said it would come in October. That's when I knew there. It is right there. So I teased that throughout the year. Then actor Some time we started to get these this flow of stories. Accused of all these crimes, nineteen of my friends or associates that dragged before the grand jury now grand jury testimony supposed to be a secret but every case, the name of the people going to grand jury. We'd be out in the media that day before they testified, just had a question of our reporter seeing them in the hallway, you know. But, so they would leak that that led to a drumbeat of by the end of twenty eighteen, literally now dealing stone will be arrested any minute now stone, Muller's zeroes in on stone, a new focus on stone by mother and so on. And then of course I think everybody in America saw on January twenty. Fifth Twenty, nineteen at six o'clock in the morning. Twenty. Are Known us what you've always got these reporters on your front lawn constantly so I can hear the dogs going crazy now. That's why the. The morning of the twenty ninth of the twenty fifth. About six o'clock in the morning. I got a call on my cell phone and it was in. But she said it was a local police officer friend of mine. When I say why. Well I'm down at starbucks there. There must be thirty. F. B. I. Agents here getting coffee. So I get the impression. It may be headed to your house. I kind of already knew that was gonNA happen from. Sloppy sources CNN and kind of slip. And so two quick shower put on my riders down. Did nothing wrong t-shirt? Waited and sure enough twenty nine completely swap clad. Assault weapon burying the FBI agents. Goggles. arrived in Seventeen armored vehicles, you could hear the helicopter government helicopter overhead I live down a canal so these two votes to the canal. They're actually frogmen holding holding. Long Rifles They surround the House. The bring this into. The battery ran up to the front door. As if I'm not going to open door. They've got dogs. These really vicious looking dogs. Canine unit. And the pound on the door, screaming FBI were soil up. and. Can All be seen of course. Thanks to see an end. They say you understand what I say I am accepted you. Please step outside your hands behind the back. We have a warrant for her arrest and. Certainly, I'm happy to cooperate a very anxious to see the chargers. Show the charges later. Tell us! Oh, wearing a no shoes pair cutoff gym shorts, T shirt. They take me out. I in the middle of the street, tax free has been roped off. Hang on, let me stop you right there Roger Hanging because we got a ticket. Take quick break and I want to make sure we give you the right amount of time for this. Because everybody's interested in this because this is what they saw, and this is what they want to hear. Before we go to break. Hey, listen now. That America's opening up doesn't mean that okay. Still gotTA. Wash your hands. You GotTa do all that social distance stuff. The stuff that makes you feel good about you. Let me give you the best thing you can do feel to Greens Bhai brickhouse nutrition every day, one scoop full serving of real USDA certified organic fruits and vegetables, which boosts energy and supports a healthier immune system, plus you get a diet of fruits and vegetables. Every day is going to reduce your risk of heart, disease, hypertension and a whole host. Host of other health issues field agrees product probiotic. It's a great source of vitamins at needed in your nutrition folks every single day. I take it. Take a scoop of it. Put it in your water tastes great. Stir it up drink at fifteen percent off your first order with offer, Code Chad Brickhousechad Dot. com, Brickhousechad, DOT, com subscribe today save an extra ten percent. Every single month can't control the world, but you can control what's going on in your body? BRICKHOUSECHAD DOT COM use Promo Code Chad for ten percent off. Hang tight right back with Roger Stone. All right, we're hanging out with Roger Stone Roger. When we left our hero last he was on the verge of danger the feds. We're at his front door. No charges have been made frogmen with long rifles in the canal. This is bad news, Roger. This is bad news. CNN cameras everywhere, which is the thing that really pisses me off. I mean Eh, that not only fascinates me, but absolutely pisses me off that that CNN's notified of everything that's going on now. These these Jack. Legs are down there at starbucks getting a coffee waiting to go. To arrest outlaw Roger Stone. What happened next? Well they pounded on the door. They pulled me out to the street. As I say I said I'd like to see my lawyer say your lawyer will meet us at the FBI processing center. I said still charges against me. They said we'll show them to you in car. On the way they arrested fine but I now know by looking at the security camera footage that. CNN showed up house exactly fourteen minutes ahead of the insane, so the idea that they were there on a hunch. Reporting is nonsense, but here's the group. A reporter with. His name is Sara Murray Murray. A particularly depleted his woman. Contact one of my lawyers and said you know your. Your client has just been arrested. This is about seven o'clock seven am. And he had no idea and she emailed him a copy of my indictment. Might indictment was sealed was a sealed federal documents. Thirty in the morning and the copy she emailed him had no court markings. Patient Markings Time Stan. But. It did have the Meta data tags on it. The show is written by. Andrew, Weisman. Was Fact Lapel head of the moderate NASA Gatien. Now reasons is in court chat is because. Chipping someone as to the execution of a search warrant. Is a felony and in my case, not only add an arrest warrant for me, but they also had a search warrant for the premises in for the next thirteen hours after the Wifi dragged out street in her nightclothes, her bare feet, and she by the way his death, so she woke up looking down the barrel to gun. Song gone her. Visa Home, invasion or what's going on? then. They rip through the House for the next thirteen hours. Course you. We both know what they found. Nothing. So I went to the FBI a booking center, I was a fingerprint dead. My pictures taken. Everybody's very professionally. Bobby someday I have no argument with the individual FBI aitchison facts interesting at the house when they let me go into tooth, brushing feel other things, the agents who were Miami basically look at me and roll their eyes, or they look at me and Wick A guys were directly under Muller. Who saw this was a? A crucial mission now I was being arrested for the first time I had no previous criminal record. Right Ninety this speeding ticket. They were arrested for the non-violent white collar crime process crime of lying Congress when I look at the charges. I said you gotta be kidding. This is it and immersive. They, then they then sell to with my lawyers. At that point, the government said. We're not A. Why did you the rest? My client is well. He's a flight risk. But when we got to the courthouse, three hours later for arraignment, didn't ask for any cash bond, and let me out on my signature, proving that I was never a flight risk at all. They know I had valid passport. I'm big. Florida's amendment, but I don't own done. And in a where was I? GonNa. Love me I'm pretty recognizable. So this was all for the purposes of making me look like a villain for the American Peter. and. They took me to the federal courthouse in Fort Lauderdale. They put me in a holding cell in three African American gentlemen. We're in there for about an hour new or just sobering up, but I do guarantee by the time I left the cell. altria were strong supporters of Donald Trump. Shackles on your legs in your hands, they take you out in the courtroom where the jackals in the media are standing around for few to be arraigned I, stood up, and said not guilty and allowed waste. And the judge ordered me released without bond. Signs, some documents that I have good a holding area. At that time without exaggeration ever probably. Somewhere near thousand people outside the courthouse, all supporters and You know left way Hippie. Some types way America. And it was just it was a quite a scene and heard he decided that when I went outside microphone setup a doubting, you could hear anything over shouting of everybody supporters in detractors, so as you know, came out of the courthouse, and I needed to show people that I was not guilty, and my spirit had not been broken by this. This stopover type rate on my home, so of course gave the same. This Nixon's sure he did yeah. That the judge in my case completely insane by. Anybody that knows Roger Stone knows that you are a Nixon file. I mean you could see the paraphernalia in the in the stuff behind you. Very President gave US A. PC ended the war in Vietnam. He ended military draft. He opened the door to China. He negotiated strategic arms limitation Soviets. He desegregated the public schools without incident. He saved the state of Israel nineteen. seventy-three occupy war. He lost the war on cancer also made some big mistakes, but we're on. Drugs is biggest mistake. Get me started on that so. When I didn't know how completely controlled that rick by trial right so shortly thereafter, the government starts making these motions, and the judge starts printing them example. Stone cannot argue that he's being selectively prosecute. He cannot argue that comber clappier flat rebranded. Struck page mother himself or Hillary for that matter, whom and they've all lied to Congress? They lied him out material things they lied. Cover up underlying crimes. I was not allowed to make that. The first five pages of my indictment said that the Russians hacked the DNC eight information to wikileaks I, don't think so. I wanted to call expert witnesses and produce actual forensic evidence to disprove that no, I was prohibited from raising that and then the most outrageous want all still is not allowed to raise misconduct by the special counsel's office the FBI the Department of Justice. or the or any member of Congress in his defense now, why would you ask for that is? There was no misconduct that you know of right? You wouldn't follow also unconstitutional under a decision. Call Kyle Z. Wet. Read that old that the investigation indictment prosecution of any defendant is always subject to question as reasonable defense right, so you know it's like going into a boxing match with both hands behind your back, and then having the guy from CNN on the sidelines, saying stone never landed a punch, yeah! And then of course I think most Americans know that. I had A. Jury, jury. Included not a single Republican not a single military veteran, not a single independent. Not, a single blue-collar worker, not a single union member. The majority of the people had host college educations. Three or four lawyers all of whom had worked for easily Obama or Clinton administration number Democrat Carton activists who worked at left wing think tanks. I mean this could have been the Obama Clinton administration alumni reunion. Your hand and they were be. You can see the hostility in their face. We, would we? We therefore went to trial the real limitation of what we can do the job to actually when my lawyers were speaking, judgment would look at the jury at over is and make faces I mean it was. Just beyond anything, you can believe and. In the end became very clear to me that the die was cast. As my friends. Said Roger Stone's trial was over before it began so. Let me. Ask you this at what point in time because I know you've alluded to this it. Or what point in time did Muller know that he had a dud of a case compared to win, they went after you. While I think I think. He knew he had no case when they can't when they beginner investigation into this this, this is why we go. We went through. Shortly before the Muller Investigation report was published. One of the prosecutors genie Ray Lynch Dingley enough represented Hillary Clinton and the Clinton Foundation and the missing e mail case. A clear conflict of interest. Mitra Asian said that if I would cooperate with the navigation if I would. Come clean. My would confess if I would confirm that a number of phone calls between candidate trump at myself into sixteen had been about coordinating with the Russians and wikileaks, or they dangled some unspecified leniency in sentencing. I had. That's what this is really about 'cause they had nothing. To, be the HAM in their Ham Sandwich Used this article impeachment against the president, because remember the president said in sworn written answers Robert that he never spoke about wikileaks. That was the truth that is still true today, though Jerry Nadler Shift and the rest of these shifts and drought saying it's not of, but that is the fact that they didn't indict me for that. I said under oath so the clearly have no proof of it. And it never came up again. That's what this is really about. They knew that I had a relationship. With the president of forty years I have great affection for him and his family. I've thought for a long. He are run for President very happy when you did. I think he's the only person the only thing that stands between us in the country going over the cliff I. Go. So. Roger. Let me interrupt because we got. We got about sixty seconds. You got a few more minutes. You can hang with us. Since I got a couple more questions I want to ask you. And I think they're pertinent to the situation and so relevant, but it just in the next. Twenty five thirty seconds. Let me ask you this before we go further with that story. WHY DO THEY HATE DONALD? Trump so much I mean what what is the end of the day and other stuff on the service? Why do they hate him so much because he cannot be controlled? Yeah, because he doesn't owe anybody, he can't be bullied. He can't be boss. He can't be controlled. He's his own man, and in his mind only answers to the American people. He doesn't answer to anybody else. He's entirely independent. What you see is what you get. Let's say the only thing predictable Donald trump busy, completely unpredictable, and that's what they hey, he doesn't along to their neo con globalist club. there. He basically, they're afraid that he's going to change. All of those policies that have brought this country to. Happily, there he's doing. We're sitting here with Roger Style and the only thing I wish was different view, and our together having a Martini `y'all hang tight. We'll be right back with Roger. Awesome video of Roger Stone on Instagram just last week where? He turned around at the bar and he said Oh. You caught me. I'm drinking Russian Vodka. Do you WanNa come arrest me. Mueller was fantastic. I I wish we were having a having a stall. Of stolley right now, Roger. That, they used to say that age love then turns out that it did age. It did age pretty well. Love it. You know what is your? There's two big questions I want to ask you one. Ask you in the last segment of my Donald. Trump this one. You know when you go through a situation like this. Where does where does your faith lie now in the in the constitutional system I mean it just seems like right now especially, if you align yourself in any way with Donald Trump, you are guilty. Until proven innocent or and I don't even think you're ever innocent, even with the commutation even with. An acquittal, even with any of that stuff. They wanted you to plead guilty, but I don't think even if you had done that, right. I mean you'd have. You'd have probably been where you stood by your convictions. They double crossed me anyway on sentencing. Did Michael Calling? and. Take about that if you if you went out, there lied. The trump supporters would hate you. The Patriots winning you, the left would still hate you. Who would like you? Speaking politically, and then there's a larger question of like wouldn't be sustain because it's just not true. Yes, so I didn't think twice about it I got into politics, not because I loved. Vickers I got into politics believed in certain things and I've had the luxury with. Worked for candidates and causes I believe in. And? I believe deeply. This president absolutely has to get reelected. Run the dirtiest and most rigged campaign in American history against him, because he completely threatens the status quo. But it was not just that that they railroaded me. As Soviet style show trial in Washington DC is not just that we found out after the trial, the jury forewoman. To all twenty nineteen year before my trial had been attacking me by name on facebook and twitter have been attacking the president. On facebook and twitter. Those on a private setting during jury selection at the trial, and then deleted them after the trial. Now the Supreme Court's really clear. You're entitled to a impartial and indifferent juror jury. Nothing in different this woman. She aided my gut. She was Democratic Party activists protege Donna Brazile. She was she made for. Congress. Is a Democrat under any. By conviction should been vacated and I should have been given a new trial. But the deep state just does what they want. Law doesn't really matter much more as we've learned. Does the Constitution of so? We have a problem continues. We have a this this issue. A ruling elites. About three weeks ago I learned that the. Department of Justice at us. Bureau prisons policy. It says that. Those convicted of nonviolent crimes. Or those in INC prisoner already or those about to go to prison. Half should be transferred to home confinement to protect them from nineteen. That rule applies to Mike Lob Ninety. The Democrats Super Lawyer did apply Michael Cohen until he was so dumb that he went out, violated his probation rules. And Rick. Gates testified against me all. MANAFORT's X. Bag, man, who's very strong the way. Back early heading. Those guys are all protected from covid nineteen. And we filed emergency motion with the court, because the bureau of prisons, telling me to to surrender a prison in Georgia where the government said there were no cases of corona virus, but the prison guards union of vigorously denied that said they were associated with number of cases. There was no match. Teams know hand washing and so on. So based on the law. The president, because in the entire country the last three days anybody in my situation who's going to court to check themselves from being exposed coronavirus has been put as either been released just two time serve or move to home confinement in the entire country that's legal precedent, and and to be clear. Did I hear correctly your asthmatic right? That is trump, sixty seven nine. Oh! You look great in. Almost died of asthma as a child. My whole life, but so all the legal precedents would indicate that I should go to home confinement. The current rules of the Bureau of Prisons had the DOJ indicate I should go to on on confinement. The the current conditions in the prison today there's one hundred thirteen confirmed cases, and maybe higher that that number's companies. And I'm happy that you have the question of health. The judge, of course, the bar administration at that point to their credit did not oppose our motion up. The judge ruled against us, so we appealed it to the DC Circuit Court of Appeals. And roughly twenty minutes before Donald Trump signed by commutation, they ruled against the three to zero. This assassination attempt I mean this is at the end of the day. That's that's got that feel to it. Yeah, it was. It was asset, so here's the point though. Going to Virginia Georgia, I would never have long enough to pursue my appeal. I'm appealing to separate appeals of my conviction. One on the basis of the jurors respond up more on the basis of a number of constitutional issues. And though that is going to be very revelatory, we're GONNA find out a lot of things. The American people don't know so if stone conveniently die in a federal prison between now, and then that would be terrific. And they they had this wire in all honesty This was deep state that sentence the judge Jackson in effect. The death penalty so in a humanitarian act of mercy, if nothing else the president step innocent. Why don't be treated like unlike everybody else? and. You Know He. Took a lot of courage in an election year I know there's a lot of people around him. Probably told him not to do it. But he knew adding a fair trial based on the conduct of judge, the jurors, the jury forewoman, and a lot of misconduct by prosecutors John from cussing. A and so on the basis of unfair trial, and on the basis of the immediate threat to my health. He deduct pardon me. A he committed my sentence. I'm entitled to appeal, and that's what I'm working on right now. It takes a year longer and other million dollars so. You know I back around January I hit rock bottom on this whole. Sad. Angry frustrated, worrying about WHO's GonNa. Take your. My Wife. Fights unfairly incarcerated. And ultimately added great meeting with Franklin Graham. The WHO's WHO's a very powerful speaker son Billy Graham, and he gave me really solid only book you can't. He's nobody can take what you're being subjected to I've lost my home, my car. My make living my voice. My Insurance my savings. I literally a cowboy way out on my head, but she used books about it. and you said you gotta put this in the hands of the. You've got to be reborn. WHO GOT REAFFIRM THEIR FACE JESUS CHRIST? In Mark my words. He said God will not abandon you. You will protect you from your prosecutors. He will deliver you. He will stand with you, but you gotta get right with God. I was born Catholic I'm still a Catholic. I believe in Jesus Christ lead the birth death in the resurrection Vibe, but I fallen away and I never been a particularly religious person. But, I followed Reverend Graham's advice that was a Saturday. Monday morning the story about the pawtucket jury forewoman hit every front page in the country. And I. PUT it out there. I didn't even know it. Yeah, so you know. How did I get through this I'll tell you the grace of God. Got, through this I think he's still protects me because they're still at it. You got you've got a dozen of these buzzy headed left wing law professors who pop up out of nowhere say oh, stones, commutation by trump was flawed, because stone is covered up for trump and they made. None of that is true. There's no evidence to support that wacky left wing conspiracy. But they they'll never give up because I'm a true talent I mean I. I wrote the definitive book. The bushes the Bush crime family. I wrote a book on the Kennedy assassination. The man who killed Kennedy Against Lbj I wrote the definitive book on water it, which is nothing compared to what think it's about? So embarrassed the deep state too many times. Then the ultimate. Insult I supported an insurgent outside a refer. A reform minded guy who's tough as nails is the agenda. That's ears. Daylight said that. He wants to be our troops home from the expensive foreign wars where we have no interest. As you know the munitions. Business Defense Contractors. They a big money out of war. You know so. He threatens that. They said they said he that no one could revive. That that structurally impossible. He got us through a combination of tax cuts and regulatory cuts renegotiating trade deals. He got us the strongest most robust economy history now because he had no choice but to protect the public health. And, he had to air on the side, quashing because he's not a scientist, but he has the scientists giving what they believe are realistic projections. He had no choice but to ten our economy to save lives. and. He did that so economy in terrible shape. Question on the table for twenty twenty. Who Do you want to rebuild the army, a man who's already proven that he knows exactly how to do it and is already done at once at ABC light whose policies on taxes and regulation are already bringing the economy back look these last two jobs reports in the face, pandemic, or do you WanNa die, who a. doesn't know what day of the week it is. He doesn't know who he is as knows last name and more, importantly, his prescription for the sick patient, higher taxes, more regulation, more big one-size-fits-all trade deals will kill the patient. Next question on the table. That's what the pain needs to be about I. Hear You Roger Stone. I want you to come back and spend more time with us. We have a lot of fun together I. Really appreciate the time and you know what I appreciate the point. You made God's in control and we're praying for you. We we support Roger Stone and encourage folks to that are watching the listen. pry Rogers well. You're going through a lot. You've been through a lot and you got a road ahead of you, so we're praying for you, pal, thanks, man. We appreciate your Roger Thank. You very much of gun at least three more cowboy hats. We'll go through all of a man. We'll go through all of them. Roger Everybody. Thank you, Buddy. We gotta get Roger Back. I want to have him in studio though what a character he is, everybody knows that he is, but you know what that's I. Love People like that because they tend to tell you what they what you need to hear. They don't hide things. Kinda got me in. Trouble myself so. yeah, stay tuned because there's going to be a lot more to this story I'm afraid to say they're not done with Roger Stone yet. They're going to continue to vilify him in a big big way, and we're going to continue to to speak out for him because you know what it doesn't matter They always go after the bigger personalities they just do, and that's what's going to happen. Because at the end of the day it makes them more money. It sells more news and more advertising so there you go There's a lot a lot going on there. It's also while they go after a flamboyant character by the name of Donald, trump I want everybody everybody to go watch Chad Dot. Dot Com. Get your tickets for this weekend. Come hang out with US Thursday night Friday night, Saturday, night in Oklahoma City at the breakdown comedy club. We're going to be there all three nights. with there on Sunday to Steve. I, think we are yeah. We got sick. Shows total over the weekend, so come out there and hang with us. Get the Information Watch. Chad Dot com also. Going to be down at Tom Ball Texas for one night one night only August first and then we're going to be where I can see Natalie's hands coming out on the camera continually and then we're going to be in Salt Lake City. That first weekend. The first full weekend in August so go to watch Chad Dot Com and get your tickets. Come hang out with us. All kind of new dates are going to be announced. You know why because we ain't scared, so go to blaze TV dot. com slash chat as well. Get your annual subscription to the blaze. Thanks for watching. Tell your friends about it. Leave us a rating review. I Love You God. Bless talk to you next time bye! Talk.

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Dan Patrick Show - Hour 1 - Roger Staubach (11-09-18)

The Dan Patrick Show

50:21 min | 1 year ago

Dan Patrick Show - Hour 1 - Roger Staubach (11-09-18)

"It's all about me. Dan, patrick. There is more where that came from click back for new episodes all week long. Want entertainment designed just for you, then checkout. Customizable, streaming TV from expanding it makes your life simple easy. Awesome. Expended? He gives you, customizable, streaming TV options. Enjoy the most ratios anywhere on any device and even access your streaming apps. Right on your TV with x one. Go to CNN dot com. Call one eight hundred Finnity or visit a store today. To learn more restrictions apply. Broadcasting from the Mercedes men case, this is Dan Patrick made it to a Friday, and it's a meet Friday at that. Welcome to the program, boys. You're here. Ready to go down in the Dench. Dan, Patrick show, the great Roger starbuck will join us coming up a little bit. We'll talk to Tony dungee. And Tony Boselli. He worked the game last night. The former Jaguars all pro tackle a hall of fame. Finalist were working for Westwood One. He'll join us a little bit later on Steelers rolling the Panthers last night will dissect that coming up he like get in touch with the program variety of ways to do. So you can tweet us a DP show, Email DP, Dan, Patrick dot com. And our Email address GPS, Dan, Patrick dot com. Oh, no. I just did them. Eight seven seven three DP show. Our phone number direct TV audience that were channel two thirty nine the NBC sports network and our radio Phileas around the country. So the Steelers have been in the news a lot this season not necessarily for football reasons. Not necessary. Early for good reasons. Everyone's talking about Libyan Bill holding out. But while they headlines are still focused on bell. The Steelers have been coming together. As one of the more dangerous teams in the NFL. They blow out the Panthers last night. And we expect that offense to be great. The newfound sense of confidence on defense is what caught my attention because they put a whole lot of pressure on Cam Newton last night for some teams drama in the locker room can derail the whole season. But the Steelers are used to answering questions that aren't football related and now they appear to have taken firm control the AFC north Ben Rothlisberger. Look great last night and Tonio Brown is unstoppable as ever James Connor complementary good last night. And when you look ahead at the AFC playoffs you start to think about the patriots and the chiefs maybe the chargers do not rule out in leave out the surging Pittsburgh Steelers. It was impressive last night. But. Steeler fans are saying, hey, how about our offense? Well, I expect your offense to be great. I'd like it to be more consistent. But your defense putting pressure on Cam Newton last night. Although I did like this. It's one game. It's national TV. Everybody gets to see it and everybody has a comment on this. And now, let's make it bigger. So the Steelers are now are they the team to beat the AFC. Like, you're going to get that question today with a talking head Steelers team to beat Nancy. I one game. Oh, Carolina so much for your Carolina Panthers. You were talking about yesterday. He's one game. Here's Ron Rivera. The Panthers head coach taking it one game at a time. We'll take a look at everything and see what happened. But truth of matter is you know, it's one football game. I mean, we're we're we're six and three right now. And so we've got, you know, seven more games to find out and next week. We start getting ready for Detroit. And that's what I'm gonna look at them. Guys, happens, man. I'm gonna put it just like that who okay, let's. Just be honest about it happens. I this is my thirtieth year in the NFL. I've seen gains like this. I've been part of games like this on both sides. And at the end of the day, you continue to dwell on it and worry about it. It's going to creep in. If you get over it and you start preparing for your next game focus on your next time. You give yourself a chance to get ready to win the next game. I love the approach if you're capable of doing that. When he starts to look at the film. I wonder if his voice is going to be raised a little bit that are be a little bit more anger in their match right after the game. And he's saying it's just one game in it is. But I don't know if he sees things, you know, the offensive line wasn't great with pass protection. Christian McCaffrey, look, really good. But you know, that was a Carolina team that should have been a whole lot better than they were last night. Here is Cam Newton talking about how that loss tasted Serrano was a humble in PISA pob and not only that it was a it was a learning experience for a lot of guys. You know, if we expect to be as good as we expect us to be we have to file a ways away games like this and hostile environment. Yeah. But he got hit forty percent of the time that he dropped back last night. And you know, they were hitting him hard. It's one thing when he when he runs then he's controlling it a little bit. But when somebody's supposed to be blocking somebody who is going to be hitting him. Then it's different because he doesn't know where they're coming from and T J watt last night, you know, in the end zone with the pick six. I mean, he comes off the corner off the edge. Nobody blocks him. But you can't have that, you know, Cam can take some pounding, but not on a consistent basis in the course of a game. But Steelers pick up the win and they tied a franchise record seven different players scoring a touchdown last night. The only other time it happened was back in nineteen fifty two. Pittsburgh scoring a franchise record sixty three points in that game. But last night fifty two points with seven different players scoring a touchdown. The bucks beat the warriors last night Steph. Curry was injured Draymond green didn't play. He was injured. But the bucks at Golden State blow out the warriors one thirty four to one eleven mclovin is running a little bit late. We'll come up with a poll question. We got a couple of stats of the day play a play of the day as well. That'll be coming up a little bit later on us. I mentioned the great Roger Staubach who I believe coined the phrase or the term hail Mary. I think it was in that game against the Minnesota Vikings. I think Roger Staubach said after the game if I have this, right? And we can ask Roger about this. But this was nineteen seventy five when he crushed my heart because I was a Vikings fan back then and the Cowboys played the Vikings in the playoffs and they won seventeen fourteen. There is a touchdown pass to drew Pearson. And of course, there was pass interference by drew Pearson. But after the game Roger was quoted as saying, I guess you could call it a hail Mary. You just throw it up and pray, and I don't know if the term hail Mary for a pass it ever been used before. But we'll talk to the great Roger starbuck. That's great. Yeah. That's a great little piece of trivia nugget. Yeah. But I hope it's true because oh, no, no, no sorry about it. Don't water it down with facs. Okay. Yeah. Why take away from the greatness of that we were all just sitting here. Like, no kidding. That's awesome. See if you can find confirmation. Well, I'll ask Roger bought the bout this at age seventy six I think he could probably play a couple of down still in the NFL. Did you see the video that went out? He was viral and went viral the twenty eight team draft. I think Roger was throwing a pass and can still he could still slinging a little bit at age seventy six. Here's also something attached to Roger Staubach one of four players to ever won the Heisman and a Super Bowl MVP. He was the first to do it. He was the Super Bowl MVP in Super Bowl. Six nineteen seventy two the other three. You should get those when there's one that's sneaky that you might not get Jim Plunkett, Jim Plunkett, wanna highs minute Stanford. A couple of Super Bowls Marcus Allen when the Heisman at USC and then one with the raiders beating the Redskins. Desmond howard. Desmond Howard was the Super Bowl MVP when when farve one is Super Bowl. Desmond Howard was the MVP. And of course, won the Heisman at Michigan. Just don't ask Packers fans. Because have you did you see that video of Desmond Howard? And he's with these two Packers fans, and they'll yeah. Hey, what's going on? They had no idea who he wants. Super Bowl MVP guys. Had no idea who he was. No, no. You weren't the MVP. Brett farve play. Yeah. No this little guy played. Yeah. I wanna Heisman to get outta here. I had a good year. Yeah. Yeah. Paulie? That's a really interesting career because he's never going to the hall of fame. But he has the two biggest wards you can get pretty much. Yeah. Amongst the. Just the other one would be regular season MVP but to win the Heisman and win a Super Bowl MVP. It's pretty good. If you could be Super Bowl MVP or regular season MVP. What would you rather be we efforts? He gotta go Super Bowl MVP because you get in the ring you won the Super Bowl, and you're getting another award on top of that on that big night. It's okay. But if I said, you could be baseball's MVP or you could be World Series MVP. Because if you're baseball's MVP, you're probably great all the time. And you're getting paid all the time. Like, what's the guy's name? I can't remember Frazier or for the Red Sox Pierce Pierce. Yeah. That's the point. He had one great week. But he never got paid. Do you think that it'll be like fifteen twenty years from now Steve Pearson be walking around going? I was the World Series MVP get outta here on Steve you're crazy. But there's something to be said about when it mattered most. You were the best player. There is something to be said that that's I mean, especially Super Bowl or something. And you bald that day? That's pretty great. You were great for one day. Yeah. But the most important day. Yes, fritzy that one night on the sports calendar, you're getting you're gonna be getting a ring and you're getting a special trophy, and you're getting all the attention, and they're giving you some vehicle to drive off into the sunset with. It's all happening for you. And to you on that one night, you're putting your hand in front of your face warned about that. So there's a Twitter account now that just tracks dot handed all day long. Yesterday was a hang loose symbol Todd somehow managed to give like that hang loose. Thumb and pinkie thing in front of his face. Okay. What are you surfer something? I gotta work on that. So strange somebody's taking that time out of their day to do that. I love it. I love it. We'll talk about how busy we aren't as no type to go to the gym. There's not enough hours in the day. But the somehow there's enough time to see what I'm doing with my favorite you stop doing that that guy can go to the gym and do all true where should give back to society little bit and stuff during her. I don't think you're capable Donut. Not. Yeah. Almost three hundred thousand of you have downloaded the DP show app. We've been talking about it for a while. There's great stuff there. It's a reboot a redesign there. The DP show podcast. You can get it from the app you can listen online. And what I love is. If you have to meet Friday songs today, Seton. We're curated that list as we speak, do curing the meat, curing it right now fun video or photos. You can upload directly to the show on the app. The app is the best way to livestream. The show catch up on daily interviews watch, apple exclusive content. The all new redesigned DP show app. Download it today at the app stores. You know, the big question that's going to be hanging there for the Steelers after that great win. They had the day off today. So that to meet with the media, and then when they come back. Everybody's going to be talking about Levy on bell at least trying to disguise away to ask the question to the Pittsburgh Steelers about lay beyond bell. And it happened last night after the game, Mike tie. Tomlin was asked. I'm sure he could see right through this where he was asked about the team's depth. Here's coach we believe that every man can be a viable component of our success. That was our intentions, and they did we appreciative of the efforts we expect it. They're all professional they prepare like it. And they need to be prepared when their numbers called, and they are generally, and they were tonight. Okay. Now, then Ben Rothlisberger was asked about Libyan bell sort of. Point. You know, what I'm not gonna comment. Locker. And that's the way to approach it. Hey, it's not up to you know, Ben can't do anything. I if lady on Bell's not in there. Then why am I talking about lady on bell, the only people who could talk and should talk. If they want to is management. But if you're management, you don't even know what's going on. I was listening to NFL network and the Steelers owner was on and he didn't even know about lady on Bell's contract situation. Like, this is so mystifying and maybe lady on bell gets the last laugh. Maybe as agents said, yeah. See I know what I'm doing. But the Steelers saying we're not sure we're going to wait till the end of the year, and then we'll kind of figure it out. And it went what? Yeah. See if we were to do question. This is why you need Andrew here that if we if our poll question today was lady I'm bells agent knows what he doesn't know. That'd be the poll question till Andrew gets here and save it sounds like he knows what he's doing. And the Steelers don't know what they're doing. But that could change, but but that could change by. I don't know nine thirty eastern. Yes. Ball the only way. Exacerbate the story is lamb bell never shows up. Never plays this year and the Steelers go on to win the Super Bowl and James Connor Super Bowl MVP. That's the ultimate one direction knowing. Yeah. But he but later on bell could still win. If he if the franchise tag like if he gets quarterback money. Then all of a sudden people are gonna go. Hey, I want that agent. I want him to be my age. Yeah. Fritzy, if it doesn't play out in his favor or anywhere near the kind of money that bell. How your hands in front of your face? Gotta money that bell hasn't gone. Yeah. Can't possibly stay with this agent anymore. When these people even questioning whether he understands the CBA in. Well, the details of what he shouldn't shouldn't be making paulie can you tie one of his? He's left onto the holding onto the phone a phone cord to make sure I don't lift my hand OK. Like a little jolt when it goes above a certain level. Like, I just I shock the that'd be great. You love teaser. A light chart chart. I'm gonna have to check with h on my. Hello. I'm right here. HR I make sure you get to call him. Yes. Harold reynolds. Let us do this HR. I don't think I want to be mildly tonight. I don't think you should draw any attention to human resources should. Okay. You shouldn't just saying do get a lot of blue screens. Yeah. With your computer? I think we should just. On a remote just move on with the HR stuff. All right. The great Roger starbuck will join us coming up. We'll not only talk about quarterbacks today. Did he invent the phrase the term hail Mary Pugh? Things talked to Roger Staubach about. That'd be coming up next sixteen after the hour. Just getting started here on this meet Friday, Dan and the danettes Dan Patrick show. We almost sleep is important, but consider someone you know, who is in the military or veteran. Imagine how much good night's sleep means to them for military heroes to everyday heroes. The new sleep number three. Sixty smart bed helps everyone get the proven quality sleep that will change their life. My sleep number setting seventy my partners is sixty so many couples disagree on mattress firmness, sleep number beds. Let you choose your ideal firmness on each side. So it's just right for the both of you. The new beds are so smart. They censor every move and automatically adjust to you, keeping you sleeping comfortably throughout the night coming during the Veterans Day sale and say four hundred dollars on a. A Queen sleep number three sixty c four smart bed. Now, only one thousand nine hundred ninety nine dollars. Plus, there's exclusive savings was there for military and veteran's sleepnumber the official. Sleep in wellness partner of the NFL, you'll only find sleep number one of their five hundred fifty sleepnumber stores nationwide. Visit sleepnumber dot com slash Patrick. Find the one nearest you. Learn more about home wellness and tech from the leader in smarter sleep by visiting the sleepnumber blog at blog that sleepnumber dot com. That's blog, that's leap number dot com. These days news travels fast, which is great. If you're a sports fan between status updates breaking news. Notifications in Twitter feeds it can always be up to the minute on every team in every game. And while this is great for sports fans. It's the opposite. When it comes to buying a car, go online and your Bloomberg with numbers, invoice list price dealer price. It's hard to know or even recognize a good price, but not anymore. Introducing true price from truecar. It's the only price you need to know. Because it's exactly what you'll pay for the car you want, including fees and accessories. How do you know of true? Is a great price. Because truecar shows you would other people paid for that same car you want. So you know, how to recognize a good price, and you're certified dealers know, this they set their true price competitively, so they can win your business. So when you're ready to buy a new car or a used car, visit truecar and enjoy a more confident car buying experience. It's a stop being bombarded with all of these numbers online. Get the only number you need to know with true price. From truecar some features not available in all states. All of us at podcast one want to say, thank you for listening to this show. We would also like to ask a small favor of you. It'll take less than ten minutes. And if you're one of the first few people to fill out, the survey, we'll give you something for your time. We would like you to complete a short survey for us to help make things better around here. Just go to listening survey dot com and everything will be right there for you. That's listening survey dot com, the first one hundred and twenty five people to go and complete this survey. We'll get a ten dollar gift certificate to restaurant dot com. And there is a chance to. Win an additional one hundred dollars Amazon gift card filling out the survey will really help us out. Go to listening survey dot com and thanks for listening. Keeping the beach not close enough. So that's base between U S news. The way all dance and sway into the news. Edgar buddy, you move. And every time you cross my mind. Alexa, play the country heat playlist. Okay. With Amazon music, a voice, all you need get tens of millions of songs. Download the Amazon music app today. We've had a couple of observant viewers saying mclovin, not there is there is there a holdout situation is it MC. Mic lady on. And I said, no, I don't think mclovin is holding out. He was in a car accident. Fender bender. Now. He's good. He's good. He's not in the protocol is no no he's not in concussion protocol. But I think he was his car was parked. And he got side swiped. Yes. The I team's hearing that when he's trying to leave Brooklyn. There was a like a big garbage truck that lost control a hit like eight cars and bumped them all into each other. And he had to stay because he's a witness. Yeah. So he's running a little bit late. But he's not Our Lady on bell. He's not McClay on but he should be. And we'll come up with a poll question. Do we have our poll question? Where are we going to go with one we going rogue? Fritzy had a couple. Oh, you did you. All right. Best team. They have seen. Okay. My hand. Okay. Go ahead. I'll bet Stephen AFC chargers. Chiefs patriots Steelers. Okay. Did Eric Reid deserve to be objected last night. Yes, or no, yeah. Okay. Not get the phone if Roger songs call we got him who standby. Yeah. And would you want lady on bell on your team? Yes. Or now after all this drama as good as he is. Would you want to deal with them? If you're defined the Steelers, I don't I I know that you're going to say why wouldn't you want to add one of the great running backs? I just it feels like they've gotten their head above water here with drama, and if you bring him in and touches and how much he wants to play and do I give him the ball too much. Is he going to, you know, fake an injury here and Eric read I thought Eric Reid deserve to. He went head hunting last night. With Ben Rothlisberger. I thought that was obvious. Here's Ron Rivera the head coach of the Panthers on Eric Reed being ojected. I don't think that was warranted. I don't think he hit him hard enough to check them. We are trying to protect a quarterbacks. And you know, if. Again, if he had hit him as fast as he was going, you know, but again, that's we're trying to protect the quarterbacks. And you know, he was high. He was trying to hit him. Now. Can I can I look at intent here because Eric Reid wasn't letting up and if Ben doesn't get down and lean back a little bit. Then he he gets him writing ahead. Yeah. You want to get the defensive back a little credit because it's bang bang. But you could see Ben starting to put on the brakes and starting to go down. And you just gotta protect your wallet. Even if you still want to crack somebody. That's why I don't understand these defensive backs, and you're going, you know, where he's going to be sliding, and you know, whereas head is yes, see the Eric Reed said he has a quote saying, I didn't even know you could be addicted in the NFL. Well, he hasn't been in the NFL for one for a little bit. But he clearly had no idea what was going on with the rules there. And he he said after the game like I was just trying to make a play in that he apologized to Ben. He wasn't going after his head. He was just trying to make a play, mclovin. His ended his holdout after twenty five minutes, and he joins us now. So been along day. Mclovin. People think that you could be Our Lady on bell. And I said that is not the case. Yeah. I guess I'm the warrior of the, Dan. That's right now major major traffic incident in the Bronx. But you're okay. I'm totally fine. Everybody's find nobody was seriously hurt. It was crazy. A garbage control on garbage truck lost control caused a fourteen car pile up. Yeah. I was the first car to get hit. But I I only got scratched your car. Did my car? Yeah. Not me. I'm totally fine. Everybody got out there. I mean, there were a bunch of people went off in stretchers just to be safe. But it was it was you've been in you've driven in the Bronx tan. Yeah. But I don't understand. So this garbage truck was out of control into started. Banging cars just running into. Yeah. I'm not really supposed to talk about. He's basically he his brakes loss. He said his brakes. He lost his brakes. Yes. Okay. Yeah. I guess had. It's been happening with garbage trucks in New York City, believe it or not I know. Well, what everybody's okay, just so, you know, we're glad you're here because my mom is listening. She texted me three times during the first segment where are you in? Everything's good. Okay. What come up with a poll question there? Get settled in got your breakfast there. Roger Staubach was just aimed Cowboys nominee for these salute to service award presented by US. A also helping USA a promote Veterans Day their campaign and Roger joins us. Now, the former Heisman winner and Super Bowl MVP Roger good to talk to you again. How are you today? Good morning, Dan. Okay. Good. Just get a little chilly here in Dallas. Wait. Wait, wait. What is chilly in Dallas. Roger. Well. It's forty degrees right now. So that's. It's getting chilly for us. What's the coldest, weather you ever played it? Well, we played. I think the one year we played in in Minnesota. And it was like. Of like, nine degrees or something. But it wasn't. There wasn't windy. So that you know, if you you can play in the cold or biscuit was probably between nine and fifteen be without the win. You get that wind chill factor. That's that's really a Downer. If a cold day, and and you got a windy day like the head of the ice bowl. It was minus thirteen degrees with the wind chill factor. I think was minus forty. Yeah. Was that was that nineteen seventy five when the Cowboys went up there in the playoffs. Was that the game? You're talking about the ice bowl was I I was actually still I was in the navy was listening to the the the ice bowl. The Cowboys were playing Green Bay talking about the coldest game you played in. Well, we played it would. I think that seventy one was a little colder. We played them in the in the playoffs. And then seventy five we had the hail Mary pass day was not it was probably in the twenties that day. So that's not bad at all. Can you clear that up the hail Mary? You get a lot of credit for coining that phrase or using that did you it, Dan? I am really proud of that credit because the term was not used in nineteen seventy five, you know, the bomb the alleyoop and all the you know, the big plays. But we were playing the Vikings. It was we we lost four. We we're losing. Thirteen to ten we got the ball back at the end of the game. And and we went down and Andrew Pearson may disgraced cats now the Viking fan say the drew pushed off, but he see the film at looks like Nate rights slipped. And so anyway, drew, Kat it. We won the game. And after the game, they an AP writer just said to me, what were you thinking about when you threw the ball? And I said, I close my eyes instead of hail, Mary I was Catholic kid from Cincinnati. And that's the NFL's recognized. That's the first time. It was ever said not keep saying Aaron Rodgers Rodgers is fantastic football player. They they have it. Now, the the the hail Mary pass or something when they show so my his he's he's had a lot of hail Mary pass. Yeah. Yeah. But they're not the hail Mary pass. So so it it really started in seventy five and the Catholic kid from Cincinnati. I was I was kind of proud of that. I think the blessed Virgin's got. Oh, I think you're going there Roger. Yeah. I think I think you've done you've done pretty well. Where's your Heisman? It's on the hood of my car. Just kidding. It's an it's our interim house I got a little office in my wife, which built this house gave me an office. So I have a little office with the Heisman in there. Yeah. So all you. She said I'm going to give you one room to put all your stuff in. Si si built this house, and I moved in with her. This was this is you know, about ten years ago. So this this is our. You know, we we got a bunch of kids and grandkids. And so we got a lot of room in this house. But my my office is it's a nice little office. And and she she's been real nice to me. Very fifty three years now. So we're good for you. Like other. He's Roger starbuck. He's the former Heisman winner Super Bowl MVP. And of course, hall of Famer are you colorblind? Well, you know, I they call color ignorant. I I know all the colors I just had to have an associated names with him yet. They know that now there is that I've I've never really totally passed, you know, especially the dot in. And I can see, you know, a a number real clear if it's the right coloring, and then sometimes the wrong color, and I can't never really passed that test. Did it ever hurt you when you were playing quarterback? Well, I did blame it a couple of times. Tag on. I'm sure Tom Landry. Was you know? Take a blue jersey. The, but but it was a factor in in the service. I I was I could not fly or couldn't go navy line. And so I was logistic supply officer. And you know, I was proud to be a navy naval officer, but that Mike being being partially truly partially colorblind. 'cause I it's not an obvious thing when I look at colors, but like like green and white light green and white at a distance. I mean, I it's so so yes, I'm partially colorblind. If you were coming out of high school now would how attractive would the naval academy. Be would that? Would you have still gone there, or do you think I think? Yeah. I think it's I think it's more attractive. It's a great school. It's got it's got when we graduated. We all had graduated with a bachelor of science, and engineering, which is a BS, and that's pretty much. What I am an engineering who's a. So so today, there's a lot more academically majors that you could have. And it's a great school. And in you know, the service is something I'm very proud of. I'm really proud of those that stayed in service longer than me. And and in during the Vietnam era. I was I was in Vietnam, I was supporting the Marine Corps and the and denying CHU lie with naval support group. And I wasn't out there getting getting shot at like like these guys. So I have a tremendous amount of respect for the military. And I'm proud to be part of it. And it was you know, a limited period of time. But I'm you know, like, that's why have with USA with this loot two services on our military. And you know, this year, we we're honoring to action, and we're hoping that the twenty million veterans out there that that we really pick out a veteran in in in in honor them, and you can even put a. V on your your hand and take a picture of it to show that you're you're honoring veterans. So this is this is, you know, special to me in my life is was being in the service, and you can do a hashtag on or through action. More information can be found at U S, A dot com slash Veterans Day solver. Troy Aikman was pretty critical of the Cowboys said you pretty much need to start over again with this team. What do you think of the Cowboys situation right now Roger? Well, I feel that it's it's a combination of few things on offense. I I do believe the Dak Prescott leader. I think he's a good really good quarterback. And he's gonna continue to to show that and they got a great runner and seek that their their offense of line has been a lot of injuries defense. I've Sean Lee out again. And they've they've really of gotten themselves in trouble. I think with with some injuries and things so so it's been a difficult year. And they're the receivers they got a new one with with this. You know, Amari Cooper, which is gonna help I think a lot and they so so we really didn't have the ki ki wide receiver. So so it's it's a team missing a few pieces. You know, I'm a big fan of Troy, I think, you know. It was the best. I mean, he he looked looked at it. But they need a bigger bigger picture bigger plan. I I think there's just some pieces here, and there that if they get them together, and especially get some of the guys back that are heard on defense and and same with the offensive line that they'll be back in action again. But it it, you know, hopefully, it's not going to be too late to this game against Philadelphia's. Yeah. So if we can beat the eagles, they'll be back in action again, at least they'll be some hope if we don't then it's it's not going to be the rest of the year. You think Jason Garrett is? I mean, I I wonder here if we see what we see is what he is in that. You know, you need a coaching change. Yeah. Well, I you know, I liked Jason. But I, you know, I don't I'm not privy to the meetings, and how things were organized and the things that I that. If I had more pro Troy is more privy to to really what's going on internally. I I am not. So the only thing I know about Jason is is mostly social here in Dallas. He still do anything for anybody is his wife Brill is is good as it gets to. They they're a great her great asset a lot of good things happening. But but in the locker room, you know that. That's toy knows that better than I do. Yeah. You just look at this situation. And I do like Jason Garrett. It's impossible not to like him. I, but I don't know who's more. I think Jerry being the GM Jerry being the owner is one thing. But Jerry being the GM. I just don't think you can do that in today's NFL world. Well, yeah. And you know, and and Jason, you know, being a good guy enough in the NFL. You gotta you gotta make sure you win football games. And so there's been a, you know, we had a thirteen and three year a few years ago. But we're we're we're definitely I think it's the lot of it is the the key some key elements on defense and offense, especially ofensive line with the enders. I think it's really really hurt Dallas this year, but you can't can't make excuse I guess on on on just injuries. But I'd like to see Jason get it turned around this year because he is a likable guy. And that's where I run into a lot is a good things. He does here. Dallas for people for more information on what Rogers talking about with the salute to service award presented by US. A it's hashtag honor through action. More information can be found at US A dot com slash Veterans Day. Always great to talk to you. Roger we do. Appreciate your time. Thanks for joining us. Okay. Dan, take care, right? He was crushing it. Where's your Heisman? Let's go to my car. You know when you're around him. They're just like there's certain people when you're around them it. There's there's an aura a about them in Ren Rogers, one of those guys, and he was a special player, and the fact that I don't know if he'd go to the naval academy now because of his athleticism, and depending on what he wanted to do with his life. But when he went in the Vietnam war was going on you go into the military the naval academy. I think Bill Bella checks dad was at the naval academy as an assistant coach when Roger played there. And then he had to wait. I think you had a six year window. He was twenty seven when he got to the NFL and still became a hall of fame, but his athleticism. I think that's one of the one of the first quarterbacks. I remember seeing who was an athlete like a true athlete. He was a great runner. But. Now. Of course, we see all these guys but back then when Roger was doing it first of all you weren't asked to do that. Or they didn't want you. They didn't have RPO's back, then Fran tarkenton scrambled. He didn't run, but Roger was capable of scrambling keeping a play alive, and he could beat you with his legs. And of course, arm and one take credit for coining. The phrase hail Mary. We'll take a break phone calls coming up. We'll settle on poll question. We got her play the day. Tony dungee will join us coming up next hour on this meet Friday, the patron show, we're heading into that time of the year where you're gonna find yourself sitting around a dinner table. Maybe it's thanksgiving. And you're like man, what the heck are we all going to talk about twenty three and me is not just for starting conversations. But it's an absolutely fascinating product. And it tells you so much about who you are. And where you came from that, it's an easy thing to pull out this time of year. I have a theory that my in laws are actually Russian instead of polish. I think I'm going to use this this year to find out for once all actually somebody very close to me us twenty three and me they were adopted from. Italy. And they're six years old came to the United States. They know very little about what their life was like in Italy. They don't know much about their family their any type of ancestry history. Like that until they started using Twenty-three in me where then you opt in and you connect with DNA relatives from a thousand years ago. There's one hundred fifty regions worldwide they can find where your relatives are in that region. And that's been a pretty fascinating process to see unlocked and now through thanksgiving twenty three in me ancestry service kits are only forty nine dollars per kit. When you buy two or more. That's fifty percent off of regular Kip price of ninety nine dollars this holiday order Twenty-three in me ancestry service kit at twenty three and me dot com slash Patrick. That's the number two three n me dot com slash Patrick Twenty-three, enemy dot com slash Patrick. Hey listeners just wanted to take a minute to thank all our great sponsors. And all of you, great listeners for supporting this podcast. We certainly couldn't do without either of you. And I wanted to remind you that you can support our sponsors by going to our show page. Podcast one dot com. Clicking on the support this podcast button. And you will see all our wonderful sponsors that helped make this show possible. Thank you for downloading subscribing. And of course, supporting and now back to the show all of us at podcast one want to say, thank you for listening to this show. We would also like to ask a small favor of you. It'll take less than ten minutes. And if you're one of the first few people to fill out, the survey, we'll give you something for your time. We would like you to complete a short survey for us to help make things better around here. 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That's the most the Steelers have ever scored at Heinz field which opened up in two thousand one play in the day. Play of the day. Brought to you by nascar's lead. Putting it all on line last chance to make the championship four monster energy Cup series playoffs at Phoenix Sunday, two thirty eastern on NBC. That's a lot of fun though, when you have someone like that Roger seventy six years of age, and when you're watching so here, I am a little kid watching Roger Staubach in nineteen seventy-five. But I'd seen him play before that, and you know, hall of Famer Heisman Trophy winner served in the military, and then you have him on the phone. So there's still some of that where you go who would ever thought? And it's never law. Lost on me. Never, you know, you get in that time machine. And all of a sudden, you're like we're talking to Roger Staubach, and he's a special. He's a special person. Not only a special athlete. Police said how about this is a poll question whose career would you want Roger Staubach or Terry Bradshaw? Yeah. Point four Super Bowl rings Bradshaw. College career good, but not anything special as far as notoriety and starbuck has two Super Bowl rings MVP and he has a Heisman Trophy at navy. I'd rather be Roger starbuck. Yeah. I'm with you. Because Terry doesn't get credit for the four Super Bowls. Chuck knoll. Does the defense. Does Lynn Swann? Does it feels like Bradshaw you go? Oh, yeah. And he was he was the quarterback for those four Super Bowls. Yeah. See, but there's a lot of fun in winning. And so you might not necessarily get the credit that you think you deserve or then you make any little overshadow. But that's man. It's a good time. When you win a bunch. Yes. Mclovin. I mean, I can't go head to head Terry. I'm beat them. Lease. Did he beat him twice? Roger, terry. I can't remember I went down. But well won the Super Bowls two times who volun- be. Well, didn't they lose the one when Jackie Smith dropped the Cowboys lost that right? That was a great game. When that thirty five thirty, and it wasn't there at twenty one ten mixed in there. So Terry won the won the big battles. Yeah. But we're talking about who's career would you want? Right. So I think but even winning those head to head. I think would be a compelling. Argument for Bradshaw. I'd rather be the Heisman Trophy winner. And you win a couple of Super Bowl Super Bowl MVP. Yeah. Polling match of stomach had a few more years to work with starbuck as a starter. Never had a losing season. His worst season starting for the Cowboys is eight and six you watch them more than we did is a fair to say not success. But who is considered a better player Staubach? Well, you know, Terry people forget about Jerry Bradshaw. I mean, he was a world class javelin throw. I mean, he was a great athlete. Great arm. You know, Tony Dungy talks about that. He was with those dealers. Terry was a great athlete. But Roger I think was a great athlete at quarterback. I don't think Terry used all of his talents the way Roger did when he played quarterback and Roger came before cherry. Yeah. For fritzy may get a little more credit is compared to branches farms, the winning the Superbowls. But when I think of Dallas, I'm thinking doomsday defense, he had torn Sandton Preston Pearson, and Robert Newhouse and Tony hill and drew Pearson too. Tall jones. Hobby mon- cliff Harris, you can I can on a great team. I can run down the Steelers to but still Dow's Harry's back. Harry gets lost in the shuffle. Though. He does you know, you're talking about Franko. And Lynch swan swan catches me Joe. Greene Jack Lambert. Yeah. Chuck knoll. You know, I understand what you're saying. I I don't think there's a wrong answer there. I would if I could be Roger Staubach I'll take that as far as the football career. I'll take take that. Don't look so sad back there ton. That's sad. Just I'm surprised. I think you have a compelling argument. Both teams had a bunch of great hall of fame players juicy Mel blunt on the sidelines last night. He's good looking guy with that. Okay. That dude to be six five he looked like he could still play had the cowboy hat black cowboy hat on. And that's a cornerback. Mel blunt was a bad, dude. He was a bad, dude. He was gonna hit you. And he was going to hurt you. Yes. Mclovin. I did have a poll that I thought when I was sitting in the accident. Revisit the Ben Rothlisberger. Philip rivers. Eli manning pull the two thousand four draft. Who would you want be rivers is having? I think is best pal. Who do I want career career? It's really close rivers is actually having one of his best season rivers is gonna finish third because he doesn't have any trophies to show. Is it a funny? Some people think rivers is maybe the best quarterback those three some people. I think he's the best passer. I. But he doesn't have success. Philip rivers to me, you know, Ben Ben makes place. The somehow some way makes plays keeps them alive. You know? And he has these five touchdown games. Where you go. Is that who we really is? And then you have a game where he throws one in all those weapons. I mean, I love juju Smith Schuster not just that that extra gear that he has because he caught it that I pass and it was like okay DVD's right now. He's gone. Just like that. What? Gone. But you know, Ben, Ben had a great night listening. Yes. He there's something about when you see a receiver somebody pulling away from the defensive back and their hands are just buying out in front of them and just trying to get anything. Yeah. Mclovin. Awesome to it's so much time. I that one play where they put the clock on. I've seconds that offense of line. They were saying last night might be the number one in the league, which we don't think we knew that coming in. Yeah. Probably underrated. And they could be blocking for lady on bell. Who exactly nobody's talking about lady on bell? But they will be by next Tuesday. They'll be talking about him, right? Which poll question, you're going to go with mclovin. So let's put up Terry versus Rogers this. It's a Friday. Let people chime in old one. But a good one. Okay. And we'll get to your phone calls here coming up. I was I was flipping around last night. I told the danettes you'd never wanna watch TV with me. I'm watching the rear of Iowa high school football playoff game. I think Dubuque was playing I was watching that and flipping around watching the football. I watched wake four I watched wake force beat NC state at NC state on senior night and the hype around this quarterback and NC state Finley like, hey, you know, the hassle Beck's we're doing the game, by the way love the house will Beck's when they're analyst. I think that's they're calling. They're really good. And you know, obviously looking at college quarterbacks and offenses, they were there are a lot of fun. But you know, I'm waiting to see if this Finley kids going to, you know, hey, he's going to be a first round draft pick, and I go, okay. Let me watch. And he had his coming out party the year before when he played against the Mark Jackson and Louisville, But flip it around. Then Boston was down eighty two sixty five in the fourth qua. Going into the fourth quarter against Phoenix. And I thought Boston's could get blown out by Phoenix which Phoenix doing trying to win games. Don't you want Zion? Williamson I've flipped back over its in overtime. It's the largest deficit through three quarters. The Celtics have ever overcome since nineteen Eighty-three going into the fourth quarter. Day day pass. The day comes that what stat of the day. Stat of the day. Brought to you by continental tire proud supporter of the Dan Patrick show. No matter what you drive where you drive. How you drive? They've got a tire for you continental tire dot com. Tony dungee will join us coming up and Tony Boselli was working the sidelines. Westwood One last night. Former Jags all pro tackle what he saw from that game. Steelers look in great and Ron Rivera said, hey, it's just one game for us is it. One hour the books to more together on this meet Friday, Dan, Patrick show. Hey, it's Adam Corolla. This is Kathy night from lady gang devolves from Steve Jobs. This is Heather d Brown from how did you grow? This. Rob Riggle Insperity on from wriggles picks. This is Kaitlyn bristowe from off the vine on typecast one. This Veterans Day. I'd like to special thanks to all those who served in the armed forces for the navy. The. Air force coast guard and the reserves your bravery region live without fear because we can soar into the bright future because of your sacrifice. 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1.23 Biography Edition: Roger Williams

The Political History of the United States

40:37 min | 1 year ago

1.23 Biography Edition: Roger Williams

"From hello and welcome to the political history of the united states episode one point twenty three biography edition roger williams just as last week. We stopped to focus on john winthrop this week. We're going to do the same for roger williams. It is a bit astonishing to me that we have barely even mentioned williams to this point however i can pretty much promise you that from this point forward. He is going to be a major player for the rest of the season as well as portions of next season. When it comes to the politics of new the england over the next fifty years roger williams is going to basically be there standing in the middle of it all he is going to introduce truly radical ideas such as the separation of church search state. He's gonna form the most democratic system in the colonies thus far he is going to be staunchly opposed to slavery in a time where that's really not a thing quite quite yet and oh yeah he's also going to found the rhode island colony for all of his efforts. Williams is going to do a great job of alienating everybody around i and generally becoming something of a pariah around new england despite that hell over williams has absolutely earned his spot in the pantheon of founding fathers before we get going. I want to warn you that for the better part of fifty years williams is going to be one of the most important colonists there is so this episode is going to go a a bit longer than most just a heads up on that one so without any further ado was dive in and discuss roger williams little is is really known about the early life of roger williams he was born sometime around sixteen or three and linden however nobody knows exactly when the church with his birth records was destroyed droid in the great fire of lenin in sixteen sixty six in so many ways i could copy and paste this section. I wrote on john winthrop's early life here and it would be more or less correct like with rope. Williams had a middle class upbringing. His father was a tailor ended will enough that the young williams was able to get a good education from a young engage. Williams emerged as having a real talent in learning languages. This ability to learn languages is going to eventually play an important role in the life of williams as he would produce the first ever indian language dictionary likewise later in his life in exchange for lessons in hebrew williams who tutored john milton the author of paradise lost in some of these indian languages abilities as polyglot aside williams was spent his teen years of cambridge studying to enter the church. Initially at least williams was moving in a direction of being a priest in the anglican church for williams. It was a slow slide into his position as not only a leading puritan but also a leader amongst the group wanting thankful separation from the church williams had trained to be a priest in the anglican church yes but well it. Cambridge moved in a decidedly puritan direction. It was not until the sixteen twenty s that he would move further and became a proponent of a full separation from that church. It was those same pressures that drove the great migration that would eventually push williams uh-huh in the direction of immigration to the north american english colonies just as winthrop had been before him increasing concern over the policies of charles the i and william laud was enough to convince williams that the time to get out of england was at hand warning the lion in december of sixteen thirty roger williams was coming. I mean to america. Perhaps there was no greater talent that williams possessed the power to simply infuriate everybody who he came across upon arrival lemass chooses williams would waste little time in getting everybody to hate his guts. The colony that williams arrived in was largely the one that we spent the last episode discussing it was a highly religious society that was running under the direction of john. Winthrop william spent his first several months in the colony living among the other prominent families in new england well. He himself worked on getting on his feet in the land. Williams was a highly coveted guests coming over and was immediately popular amongst the other settlers. He was so popular in boston so that when pastor john wilson made the announcement that he was going to return to england to get his family. It was williams who they hid turned to the plan was that will wilson was gone. Roger williams williams would step in and be the pastor of the all important church in boston. When wilson returned it was unclear what they were going to do but suffice it to say they would have found a place high in the church church for roger williams if not just lead him as a second pastor okay so this is a huge deal for williams in massachusetts. There was no more important city than boston with embossing. There was no more important institution and an institution more central to life than the church roger. Williams was being offered a position running that most important of of institutions for williams this meant that almost immediately after arriving he would it become one of the single most important and influential men in the entire colony anybody in their the right mind would jump at a chance to instantly become one of the most powerful men in the colony right williams being a conscientious man however decided instead to ask some questions learn about the church in boston which i mean come on. That's totally fair. P is looking at taking over the most powerful institution in massachusetts. You need to ask a few questions on the job interview right okay okay so this is where he says thank you and accepts the job right no no this is actually the point where he says oh yeah. I can't accept the job because this isn't a separatist church. If any of you guys want to know how to make enemies in alienate people in sixteen thirty boston it is by refusing a position and leading the most important church in north america because your beliefs are directly opposed to the established leadership of the city we have already spent a ton of time talking about how the puritans of massachusetts were not separatists and in fact we're pretty solidly opposed to such heretical thoughts that williams came in and not only decline they're awesome offer but then decided to go ahead and tell them that he disagrees with them on such a core subject was simply stunning not to mention side of massachusetts williams had come in and was immediately really a popular figure having him come out as a separatist was more than just infuriating. It was potentially dangerous. Instantly williams moved from beat. A coveted evident highly sought after a rival to beam a persona non grata. It would have been a lot to handle at this point but roger williams is not a man to rest idly by it was more than happy to express his grievances to the church in massachusetts cowardice divined the ten commandments into what they referred to as the first and the second table the first table worthy commandments that dealt with the relationship between people and god the second table are the amendments that address the relationship between people and other people for example example commandments like have no before me and don't take the lord's name in vain are going to come out of that first table. The second table is going to have the commandments such as don't murder don't still and respect your parents for men like john winthrop. It was the role of government to ensure that both the first and the second table were enforced and protected by the government in the eyes of men like john winthrop. It was the government's job to enforce the covenant between god and the people williams however disagrees with this premise well williams would agree that the second table should be enforced because nobody really wants murderers and thieves running around. He believed that it exceeded he did the authority of the government to enforce the first table. Williams did not believe that the state should have anything to do with interpreting man's relationship with god god and this was an overstepping of their power this idea the thought that the state lacked the power to enforce the first table is something that was radical for its. It's time this was radical in new england and would have been equally unthinkable backing europe well. There may have been religious disagreements pretty much. All governments were on board with the idea that they had a responsibility to enforce the entirety of the ten commandments. Even the separate is still believed that the government had a role in enforcing that first table unfortunately sources are thin on how williams arrived to such a radical thought his writings for the year had been law so we don't really get a glimpse at his thought process into the matter rather we are left with just the end result regardless however this is an end result that is going to have momentous effect in the moment it is gonna make williams and outcast somebody who needs to be treated carefully as he is espousing dangerously rebellious thoughts in the long term over the separation of church and state is going to transform from radical and dangerous idea to something ingrained in the very bedrock of the american political experience. This also marks the first time we're those surrounding. Williams will look at him and say e yeah. You probably should leave for roger williams. It was time for him to look elsewhere. He was no longer welcome in boston. Luckily for him at that exact moment the settlers up in salem or more than happy to take him in salem looked thoroughly leap forward to sticking it to boston. Keep in mind what it must have been like to settled in salem endicott had after all settled salem i when when through crew arrive they looked around decided that they hated the place and moved further south to charlestown. I and eventually founded boston. Salem had been the main colony of massachusetts. She says bay and then all of the sudden it was a second rate town. Williams was quick to relocate to salem where he was. Well received i for salem this. This gave them a few chances. I the brand new christianity being practiced in salem was more in line with williams belief. This isn't to say that they were separatists. In salem. However were they did practice a stricter form of christianity that williams could work with beyond that and conveniently for williams. The reverend salem had just died filing. This was a great great chance for the settlers of salem to take a dig at the settlers in boston. I mean they had stolen williams away. They were feeling pretty good about themselves. At this point. The problem is is that in boston winthrop and comey were not amused they had just for all intents and purpose run williams out of town now salem had hired him without giving a thought to conferring free with the company at large. This isn't a minor point either. Keep in mind. That salem was a town in the massachusetts bay colony start like this is a separate entity with a separate government limit all those dangers that they had about in boston still existed in boston allowing williams to set up just twenty miles north of salem and that's just not going to work out in response to this on april twelve sixteen thirty one the court of assistance as well as the governor met in boston to discuss the issue interestingly enough boston was very well represented during this hearing lone representative from salem john into got wasn't there now. I admittedly can't find a clear reason why into cobb wasn't there so oh i can't say if this is a deal where he decided not to go out of protest decided not to attend for some practical reason or if his invitation got lost in the mail but either way salem the the city at the center of all this was not represented at the gathering the assistance ended up sending a letter off into cod asking him what they were thinking and why they thought it was okay okay to hire williams without even consulting the leadership in boston throughout this of course it's not like boston for baid salem to move forward with williams more soap and they wrote a strongly strongly worded letter that basically told them that they needed to think really really hard if this move was in their best interest in a convenient little twist and i'm sure much to the delight of the magistrates back in boston income himself was currently facing assault charges at this time the assistance did not hesitate reminded the cut that he would soon be sitting for trial in his his own case in the same remonstrance they had sent regarding williams be it for personal reasons for intercut giving into pressure in the greater massachusetts bay colony anywhere some other more practical reason salem did come around and rescinded their offer out of work and not really welcome anywhere in the massachusetts bay colony anymore williams found himself as something of a crossroads he had come over a highly sought after teacher he was popular and everybody was anxious to get him working for them. However however his religious beliefs had very quickly turned him into an outcast who the colonial leaders viewed as dangerous. So what do you do if you're a separatist in new england in the sixteen thirty s. That's right roger. Williams is gonna pack up things and move the show to plymouth plymouth in so many ways seems like a logical landing spot for williams after all the settlers implement were separatists. They had no problem with the policies of williams in fact they were much closer aligned to his beliefs than anybody else. It is important to note that this still is not a perfect fit after all the idea of separation of church and state isn't totally accepted anywhere in the sixteen thirty s bradford company would not have been on board with the separation of church and state we have seen when we went through plymouth that in fact they very tightly tied church church to state and beyond that bradford and the other people in plymouth were going to want to enforce both the first and the second table they had no interest in that part of what williams was preaching but hey if nothing else we are at least getting closer upon arrival in plymouth williams to set a to take a more laid back approach instead of jumping right into the fray like he had in massachusetts. Williams was more interested in settling down and establishing some routes this means that he did not seek out out to become the reverend of the church nor did he seek out a particularly key role in the administration of local politics. Instead williams just wanted to blend in william bradford bradford would right of roger williams that mr roger williams a man godly in zealous having many precious parts but very unsettled in judgment came over. We're first to massachusetts but upon some discontent left that place in came here why he was friendly entertained according to their poor ability and exercised is his gifts amongst them and after some time was admitted a member of the church and his teachings will approved for the benefit whereof i still blessed god and i am thankful nfl team even for his sharpest admonishments and rebuffs so far they agree with the truth. Williams role in the colony may best be proved not not only by what bradford says but by the fact that williams really doesn't feature prominently in bradford's writings by alright william settled in nicely even his relationship nations with winthrop appears to have improved during this period probably because stuck out in plymouth williams. Was it really a risk to anybody. Well in plymouth williams was also free initially to indulge another fascination of his the native americans as we discussed at the opening today. Williams was a bit of a polyglot. One of the stated goals of basically everybody who had ever come to the americas was to convert the local population to christianity spreading religion had been the justification that everybody used even even if in reality it was typically more lip service than actual practice roger williams over wasn't really lip service kind of guy and actually did have interest interest in trying to convert the local populations this would lead williams on a path where he would do his best to learn the native language and eventually see him produce the first dictionary of indian indian terms more problematically. It introduced williams to concerns about land rights of the indians. Here's the problem williams looked around and begin to question how the english had come to acquire all of their land as a reminder. The way it would work is that the king granted charter in the settlers would go off and see their new homes. This troubled williams after all. The lands weren't empty. All the indians had been using the land these questions made williams asked the question regarding removed the english claims now. This wasn't a totally novel idea. However the difference is justifications. This had actually come up before if you recall those heading to plymouth had justified taking land on the basis that the india's weren't properly developing it and therefore had no legal claim it had been dubious at at the time however for the people coming to settle it was a self serving thing that they all felt that they basically had to do the problem is that for roger williams he was is not about to turn a blind eye to this there enough occasions of this idea stunning. Williams wasn't just bringing up novel argument. He was directly challenging. The authority of the king to grant these charters in the first place williams brought his concern back to plymouth the leaders plymouth told him to write a treatise on it defending his point of view hugh and that is just what williams set out to do the problem here is that williams really went for it. Unfortunately the writing is now lost because ultimately williams would voluntarily voluntarily agree to burn it however what was in it appears to have been explosive. What roger williams appears to have written was a direct assault on the monarchies on archies claim to the new world williams called the king aligarh and directly challenged authority to make these land grants. This was over the top radical and nobody lubetzky wanted anything to do with it. Plymouth had always been a hotbed of dissension. Yes these guys were separatists who were facing not only the threat of persecution futian but some members of the group were actively being sought by the authorities yet even in this society. This is just going too far. William william bradford wrote that williams had come up with some very strange opinions that caused considerable strife between him and the church william bradford goes on to describe williams asking to be released as a member of the plymouth church being granted that request and leaving plymouth to return to salem interestingly enough bradford writes that he thought it was prudent to send a warning annalong about these new positions of williams this goes to show that implement they clearly understood the nature of what was being said and it seems had an idea of just what what a powder keg williams had chosen to go preach williams returned to salem where he took up the teaching job that he had wanted years before however by this point that general court in boston had become aware of what williams was preaching for winthrop and the others this was not just deeply concerning it was seditious dangerous williams had shown himself to be a separatist who believed in the separation of church and state and now is directly clean out the monarchy. The last thing thing that these men wanted was to get england looking more closely at what they were doing now. Williams was calling out the king. He was calling him a liar williams for his part. It also appears to know that he had gone too far when confronted by the leaders of the bay colony williams apparently acquiesced to demands and it himself agreed to burn his work. It is unclear why there was such a sudden change in heart by roger williams however it is certainly possible that he had just realized how dangerous assists positions were and what a powder keg he was sitting on williams was no more anxious to attract the attention of the monarchy or william laud than anybody else at this point williams writings had just been viewed by the leadership within the colony by burning the trees. There really was nothing to prove its existence or his extreme views nothing that williams believed or he preached in this regard was public. It was all contained within that treatise so hey all is still good right well. The immediate risk for the most part was modified. It was abundantly clear to those in charge that roger williams uh-huh was a threat and that he needed to go williams did not wait long to give them a reason to go after him williams now the acting pastor in salem began take issue with the civic oath required by the government this oath had all males over sixteen swearing allegiance to the king in the colony and included the words so so help me god williams took all kinds of problems with this he was upset over the government requiring such an oath in the first place he took issue with the wording wording so help me god in his view the words so help me god made the oath another example of the colony trying to force a religious position williams this continued to agitate and preaches disapproval to the church in salem seeing an opportunity to the general court in boston acted informally called williams before the court on july eighth within sixteen thirty five warning williams that he was again preaching dangerous idea. Let's however we have been down this road before and this time williams had no plan to back doc down in fact he decided to entrench the court gave williams one of two options he could recant his position and they would allow him to stay or it was going to be exile. I think this really goes to the power of williams. Even after all of this the colonial leaders in massachusetts still wanted to find some way to keep roger williams in the colony this i'm however williams isn't going to change his mind so once again more officially this time the leaders in massachusetts to- l. williams yeah. It's time that you leave. The leadership and boston did attempt to give williams some time to get his affair together. So long as he stopped preaching his troubling ling thoughts they were going to give him at least six weeks before they exiled him into the wilderness. Oliver williams couldn't do that and sure enough. The decision was made that the colony could not afford williams any extra time williams had learned that they were coming to execute the order against him and he as well as several of his followers slipped out outta town. The good news for williams is that he had become very popular amongst the indians as he had been kicked out of town during the winter his prospects were initially initially looking pretty poor williams however was able to get some help from our old friend. Mathis wait after wondering around for about four months williamson move fifty miles south of boston. They're often outcropping of narragansett bay in june. Sixteen thirty six roger williams founded providence rhode rhode island for williams providence was going to provide him with a series of new challenges williams had always been admittedly concerned with the matters of the immortal immortal salt far more than he had been involved in any kind of practical governance in an interesting twist. It was john winthrop that williams would ride to drain the summer of sixteen thirty-six basically asking hey. How does this whole government thing work. What are the things to keep in mind here is that providence had no authorization to even existed listed this point. There is no charter from the king. There is no board of governors or any kind of oversight. This is very literally. Roger williams out in the middle of nowhere with followers followers just faking it until they make williams rights to winthrop saying that the head of the families of the new settlement meet every two weeks to discuss the basics like the common peace watch implanting. The most immediate concerns for williams was in the area of food production and protection from the local tribe. What williams liam's historically kept exceedingly good relationships with the indians. The tribe was in a bad way and spoiler alert but in just a few episodes from now so we are going to have an episode called the quote war so yet things are going downhill. There pretty quickly williams went with a very simple form of government having all all the family sign of covenant to link them together decisions were made by majority vote and the town would elect a town officer whose job was to run the government apparatus rattus of course the much more paramount importance for williams was going to be establishing a church true to his beliefs williams was careful to create a church that was fully separate from government williams preached separation of church and state and was going to make sure that his church was founded with that ideal in mind through some evolution williams had just founded what is going to become the basis of the baptist church in america. It is worth pointing out that williams himself was never really at about baptists despite helping form their church williams believed was that the perfect church was only going to be possible upon in christ's return to earth however because that hadn't happened yet. The baptist church was the best and the most logical existing form so we'll williams didn't didn't view the baptist church as being the final ingold church. It was the best they had so that is what he would go with. Rhode island earned a somewhat special spot therefore in early colonial america it became a colony worthy outcast would mostly made up of religious how cast over as we are going to see when people's us you don't fall in line with the cycles done in massachusetts. It is typically rhode island that they turn to this is largely because of that separation of church and state state in providence. You weren't required to be baptised. You weren't required to believe in god at all. Nobody was going to come and arrest you or fine you because you bailed sailed on sunday. Service church and state were truly separate entities. It is around the same time that we see other towns begin to sprout up around rhode island in addition to providence the towns of newport portsmouth and warwick joined in providence newport portsmouth all worked together and formed a kind of provincial governance governance over the greater colony warwick on the other hand under the leadership of samuel grooten would be different altogether well the other three colonies did their best to work together either increase something better than they had left-back massachusetts grodin came in and did just about everything he could to disrupt those efforts arriving in rhode island in sixteen forty. One grodin grodin was a problem from the start. The problem with grodin is that he questioned basically any an authority no worries about any kind of separation of church and state here grodin question in both most problematically grodin was not being quiet in his criticisms. Now it is williams turn to pretend to be john. Winthrop williams was pretty happy with dissenters. Grodin was just too much for him to handle as growing made his way throughout the colony he found that over it over again he was getting icy welcomes mostly because he would wander into towns and immediately start objecting to the systems of government in that town that is to say nothing for the fact that he basically had a problem with all accepted religious tenants as well williams was okay with people having different viewpoints but grodin he was exhausting despite problems with williams head come around to the fact that rhode island well awesome wasn't exactly operating with any kind of authority williams recognized that for the sake of domestic tranquility it was going to be important to get a charter and actually have a level of jimmy williams decided in sixteen forty three that it was a good time to go ahead and get this has done. You might be saying to yourself. Hey i thought williams got to rhode island in sixteen thirty six. Why did he decide to wait. Seven years to get a charter and hence make his colony colony legitimate a big reason is that political events were going on in england that had been dicey best however by the time sixteen forty three rolled around the timing timing was right. The king's personal rule was over and in fact parliament was now engaged in the english civil war. William laud was now a guest in the tower of london and there. We're friendly ears in london to request a charter from the bigger problem is that everywhere williams looked another group was trying to take a piece of his claim after all williams to this point had been operating without a charter. It's not like there was a royal decree that this was his land plymouth massachusetts and even the new colony of connecticut. We're making claims on his rhode island territory so needing to secure his college williams set out in sixteen forty three to get that charter charter would make the colony legitimate and we'll put a stop to attacks on its borders it would also be away for williams to make his religious policies not some experiment but rather something more official. We're going to talk more about the effect of the english civil war in new england next time when we turn our attention to the political affairs both at home and abroad but suffice it to say for now that by at this time in sixteen forty three the puritans in parliament were in a pretty decent spot unable to travel directly through massachusetts because you know he was still banned williams i made his way through the dutch colony of the netherlands just in time to see the kaif tour breakout named after the colonial governor william kite williams had made in an offer to the dutch to mediate but rebuffed him. The war was going to be quick and easy after all. Why would they want to mediate a peace before they hit achieved. The superior position position the dutch thought they have everything wrapped up nicely in just a few days time as is the case so many times throughout history fast and easy wars have a nasty habit of being anything but the edgeworth early routed by the indians who started doing annoying things like burning their towns and slaughtering all of the settlers in the countryside that they now completely controlled now hanging out in a poorly defended colony with indians approaching end lighting everything in their path on fire. The dutch decided that yet. Maybe we should let williams go ahead and deal with this. Williams would step up and ended up becoming a mediator for this conflict whereby he was able to bring something of a peace to the region. This is all reported by john. Winthrop woo in this gives exactly no details on how williams accomplished anything if this problem behind him williams was now able to make his his way to england to secure that charter things don't get off to a wonderful start for roger williams back in england once arriving he learned that all of new england meeting massachusetts solicits plymouth connecticut and new haven had joined in an alliance known as the united alliance which was meant to bind the new england colonies together for the common defense. If if you notice that i did not mention rhode island that list you are correct. They were not invited to play along so for williams. He is now trying to obtain a charter after learning that his colony is now an isolated island in new england which of course is not going to be super helpful for him. The second problem came that well john was a much friendlier place to him in sixteen forty three than it would have been a decade before parliament wasn't all that interested in his plight nor was it clear that they had the authority to do anything about got it right at this time. Parliament was busy fighting a civil war and probably hoping that the end result did it end up with them all being beheaded the colonies in new england were of such little importance that parliament never really even bothered to claim dominion over them. Certainly they were not interested in taking a break from the war efforts to listen to such a minor issue like the corporate charters and things like that those things could wait till the fighting was done. Eventually parliament would come around and established the committee committee of foreign plantations. The earl of warwick was made the governor in chief. So at least williams had a place to go just because nothing can ever possibly go that easily. Thomas weld had little interest in alan williams. This victory who is thomas weld thomas world had served as the minister of a church in roxbury very massachusetts he was staunchly opposed to the heretical teaching of williams and the last thing he wanted to do with c williams get any kind of a foothold in new england well would later become a key figure in helping establish the first university in new england which he would name harvard having returned to england. Well wasted exactly ackley zero time after the committee of foreign plantations was created to claim the majority of rhode island for massachusetts. Well doing this under basically his own. Authority already sought the signatures of the committee members for this claim well then through some creative dating made it appear that the charter which will become the narragansett pat had it had been granted however despite an attempt to pass it off the document never been voted on therefore the charter didn't exist yet. The document wasn't exactly a forgery. The signatures on it were all real but the effect was the same and the charter was invalid as williams waiting around for parliament to address the existence of the colony and then we'll thomas will try to still away rhode island. Williams kept himself busy. What williams had been doing during that time was writing a pamphlet called. Mr cotton's letter examine answered third now. We haven't talked much about john khadim but he has been lying under the surface. All throughout today cutting have been one of the principal people against williams and his ideas of religious religious freedom in england. There had been a building fight between the presbyterians and the independence. This fight is very similar to what is going on in new england where theologically agenda there was an agreement on doctrine over. There was a disagreement over the role of that church in the state. The independence were basically that same group that existed in massachusetts and we're led by men like cotton and winthrop whereas the presbyterians would have been sympathetic to the plight of men like williams conveniently for williams drain drain this fight it was the independence that came away looking petty whereas the presbyterians look like those just trying to do their own thing. This is is an important distinction especially when you consider that the independence where essentially analogous to the puritans in massachusetts and the presbyterians were analogous guess to roger williams and his new baptist church in other words massachusetts doesn't come away looking good here to fact massachusetts comes away looking overbearing and in need of a check on their power. If anything they appear to be a colony that is acting with a disturbing amount of arbitrary authority and hey that thomas the guy who had been looking to have massachusetts steal away rhode island yeah. Maybe this would be a nice chuck on power after all. Nobody wants to let those jerks. Massachusetts acid -chusetts just push everybody around and get their way for the independence in london who had been seeking delegation from the presbyterians this entire episode look terrible for them. Look what happens when you give them an inch as what's happening in massachusetts. All of this was enough to stop any continuing efforts by thomas weld a march fourteen in sixteen forty four rhode island became a legitimate colony and received its charter so now it's the end of the sixteen forty s williams. Has this this charter. He is going to sit back and retire right. If you think that is the case you really have not been paying much attention today. Williams woods spent much of the rest of his life. Further working towards the growth and development of the providence colony williams who spent a great deal of his time pushing back against the growing influence of the quakers cres a group that he personally couldn't stand williams would emerge during the sixteen sixties acid early opponent of slavery eventually this manifests as williams passing. I've seen a law against slavery did allow for the continuation of indentured servitude. It plays a ten year time limit on any kind of service of that nature now in full disclosure. This new law isn't going to be nearly as effective as i'm sure williams would have wanted however it still says something that he pushed for it. Williams views of slavery stemmed out of his religious beliefs and his belief that also were created equal in front of god. This wasn't a novel concept but for williams to use it as a a justification to make slavery illegal not is a pretty big deal. Williams would see his final fi. Come drinking phillips war the war set several of the tribes of new. We live at war against the english williams had done all he could to prevent the war but ultimately he was unable to. We are going to spend a lot of time over the next season. Talking talking about king philip's war so i'm not going to go into all the details now. However suffice it to say that this war was deeply painful one for him. Williams has been so so much of his life carefully cultivating close relationships with the native americans he was well liked by them and most importantly he trusted by them here. However williams was left left with little choice and took up arms beyond the sadness of taking up arms against the indians. Providence itself was destroyed march twenty ninth sixteen seventy six when the town was burned to the ground. Only a handful of the towns billy survived the fire among the buildings destroyed was roger williams own home by the time the war was over williams was left poor older and weaker and he was this time approaching the end of his life. After spitting over fifty years in america and having introduced used ideas that would fundamentally change what it means to be an american roger. Williams died at the age of seventy-nine sometime during the winter of sixteen eighty three. I want to finish today by discussing the final legacy of roger williams and where do we even start separation of church and state rhode island his relationship ship towards the native americans as opposition to slavery his role in the foundation of the baptist church. There is no way around it. Roger williams wasn't importing guy. It can be difficult to look at a man like williams and figure out what his specific contribution is however in many ways i see him as a check to john winthrop and his vision vision of america. I admittedly hesitated before writing that because i worried that it is going to give the wrong idea. Williams went through are both absolutely critical all two lane out the foundation of adventure be seen as critical to the american political experience though both men got there in very different ways with this'll it's all being said though i do want to stop short of calling roger williams a product of the enlightenment in much the same way that i was unwilling to say that about winthrop williams uh-huh is also going to fall short of the coming wave of enlightened thinking that we begin to see emerge in the second half of the seventeenth century what winthrop and williams ever do show is the battle that will emerge an im- many ways continues on between the question of religion and politics the place of religion specifically ugly here christianity not only society but it's interplay with the political systems of the future united states is going to remain a theme that we are going to be looking at constantly conly throughout the course of this podcast. Won't we reach our conversation on the first amendment. I'm going to refer back to these episodes because this is the origin of that debate date in america. This is to say nothing of williams role in founding rhode island establishing the baptist church and his views towards the native americans which really really set him apart during this time in this way williams does leave a lasting imprint on the united states today despite being an often forgotten figure this raises raises an issue with the idea of founding fathers in general because it locks events down to a very specific time and doesn't consider the foundations that they are standing on jefferson. Adams madison are in a lot of ways standing on a foundation that roger williams helped lay as we we'll all see as our story moves back to the narrative. Williams is going to remain a central figure throughout the rest of this season next time we we are going to start a series of episodes looking at the major topics within the early new england colonial structure. This is going to include questions of religion politics six as well as the colonies ongoing relationship with england drain. What was a very turbulent time for the mother country before we can do any of that however i i want to spend the next episode introducing the other colonies in new england and i'm going to bring the new netherlands into the game as well as the fate of all these colonies is going to be alternately so interlinked. I think a proper introduction is finally in order with that. I will see you back here in two weeks time as we begin to look at the other new england colonies <music>.

william kite williams Williams woods roger williams Roger williams williams england massachusetts john winthrop united states plymouth williams winthrop williams boston rhode island salem america Rhode island providence pastor john wilson Winthrop william baptist church William laud
Roger Staubach joins Boomer & Gio

Boomer & Gio

12:19 min | 6 months ago

Roger Staubach joins Boomer & Gio

"New Year's resolutions are hard but starting twenty twenty with the best entertainment during the exciting New Year. New Gig sale is easy now. That's simple easy. Awesome some click call or visit us today. Restrictions apply not available in all areas Raj. Thanks for joining us again. It's always great to To see here. Let's go to be here and it's always good to see boomer thank you Roger. Cincinnati Guy Projects from Cincinnati and the Cincinnati. Bengals the only only team in the NFL not to have a ring of on is that right. I didn't I didn't know that would've been a ring of honor guy. What type of crap is at Raj what I need to call? Some of my friends are put pressure on. We'll get a real honor. I'll probably be like maybe number ten in that ring. Yeah there are a lot of great players in Cincinnati but nobody seems to ever remember them. Because we're the forgotten franchise who have the cowboys. My wife and I both grew up in Cincinnati. And that's yeah also our town but the amazing thing is you were the one who made the cowboys America's team because you the navy guy. You're the guy that took him to the Super Super Bowl. You're everything that was right about the NFL when you were playing. Do you ever look back on that. Never think about that and the significance of what the cowboys became. Because of your success. Well I I. I think I'm part of a good period of time with the Dallas cowboys it still. It's still a team that people either it really like them or love them. And they don't like them. But the I think the the the America's team goes back to coach Landry and I I was still in the service when the cowboys started winning with Don Meredith than they were in you know lost Some tough games But they were in the play offs and they've really started to take shape then Coach Landry was the man on the sidelines with that hat on and Neil and there was something about him that people and he was a great human in being off the field to is. He's a great coach. And so I think that it started with Meredith and coach Landry on on America's team and we were a big part of the seventies or a very big part of it. Do you Do you like today's brand of football. The way they play. Because it's different than when we played I would yes I would like it because if you run which Iran quite a bit if you slide? They're not supposed to hit us in they. They were so loud they were still allowed to hit you when I came back in the days because I ran a lot so it the players are bigger and faster today. It's But I I would enjoy it as a quarterback because you you're when you're throwing the ball more and there's it's the defensive backs are still grabbing the best but it's it's it's still more of a passing game. They intentionally change some of the rules to make it that way. I'd enjoy playing today's in today's game with the rules of where they are boomer and Geo at the legendary Roger Stalled back on the fan and CBS sports network he is here on behalf of USAA in the NFL and the salute to service platform warm where they honor and appreciate our military veterans and their families and it's such a great month that the NFL USA put together every year. And it's not just the salute to servicemen servicemen and it continues throughout the entire year. And there's a big honoring during Super Bowl Week. Yes I I got involved with USA when I graduated it from the Naval Academy. My mother saved up some money to buy me a car. So and my insurance USA and since that time they've grown and have done a fantastic services and they're and they're also dedicate obviously the military is whether dedication is and So I've had a chance to be part then if you could go back and play one game again not because the result just the the the enormity of the game would it be the army navy game where would it be the super bowl. Well that that's a great question because I the Army Navy game. I was excited about that as much as I was super. Bowl and We we we beat army two years and then we lost my first class senior year at the Naval Academy and they're great quarterback early stitch away with had a great game right. Yeah and But but I I would say the loss to Pittsburgh thirty five to thirty one in the super bowl was Pittsburgh was really good team in the seventies and so are we and we have to give give it up to the steelers because they beat us twice in the here in Miami and we won two super bowls in New Orleans When we beat Miami in in Denver and New Orleans? It's it's amazing that Miami's actually. I think this is the eleventh time they're going to host the super bowl so that's yeah that's A. That's a record. Obviously we often make fun in New York doc about Jerry Jones and the way that he carries himself and he's always giving interviews and all that other stuff but you have a different perspective of Jerry Jones and how he looks at what what the cowboys are what he is built them into and how he takes care of former players you have a great relationship with The owner don't you well I do. Do you have a very good relationship Because I'm you know I was cowboy. Fan Jerry. When he took over There there was a lot of different opinions landry and all that other stuff but he's He he really cares about Dallas Cowboys football and he's also very generous and the things he does for. The whole family is involved in some things that are private that they do for people people and they have some things that they do that are forever or whether it's whether it's the united way or ex players are they're always trying to Give give back as well as Be Competitive and WANNA win football games too so and he and he actually is embraced history and always seems like there's his players around him. Yeah he jimmy. Johnson will ever be able to bury the hatchet. Come together and now that Jimmy's going into the pro football hall of fame. Will he ever get elected into the cowboys ring of honor. Well that I you know Golly boomer where Roger these things happen I think the hatches. She's been buried. But there's still some some some some things that have to happen there. I think he will go into the ring of honor something. I hope so that that was a that. They had some great teams in the nineties volume. Yeah and putting that team together with that one in fifteen year when Choi was a rookie and man it was just awful awful and then all of a sudden became this just free train of a football team that was great now one off the rails a little bit to march part to a little bit too much partying. Maybe but at the end of the day you would think that Jimmy Johnson. He's got to be in the middle of all that yeah that was That was a great period of time. There they they had the best quarterback Dallas had in Troy Aikman. He's he's so that period of time. It's a shame it Kinda ended the way it did but it it still was a great and A period of time for the Dallas Cowboys. And you know I'm I'm an Aikman fan so I but I would say though for you you. You're the guy that can you could bring Jimmy and Jerry together Rod. The Great Roger Starbuck the Great Troy Aikman together. You guys can make this happen. I think that's a good idea. Yeah you're burying hatchets for Thirty Years Ring of honor in Cincinnati. I mean what else you want. You need a lot from him. The understand how successful he is away from the game. Yeah no I I do I get it but it just seems like a lot. But boomer's writing I mean he he's got a history on on when you out the Frisco on on the in the cowboy the history is there and everything he's got he's got a big Sculpture of coach Landry agree and so he appreciates That's where the cowboys practice appreciates cows. That's where they practice That great facility out there. It's called it a star star Dr Right and that's it. It's really a neat place. And Jerry is is is honoring the history of the cowboys there. So there's a quarterback there now that I think think is spectacular on the field off. The field is the best quarterback in football. No He's not but I think he's he's really really good. And the way he represents the organization down there Dak Prescott. I think he should sign a long term deal. I hope they offer them a lot of money and open stays there for a while because I think he's he's perfect for that team. I really do believe that When you start hearing thirty million dollars a year for God like Dak Prescott some people blister debt? Do you believe there's going to be a contentious contract negotiation we in the cowboys and Dak Prescott. Put me on the spot here I should. This is talk radio and all these other guys. They'll give you that. was that was a quarterback not an agent. I think Jack is is going to be there a long time. So when I see thirty million my my first contract was twenty five thousand. But I wasn't as good as Dak back then. I was the backup quarterback so it's It it'll it's going to happen happened with with that good. I hope so because I I always see him after games but he seems like the adult in the in the room whether they win lose he looks great. Sounds Great. He's saying all the right things. He's the great face of a great franchise. That's the way I look at it. Well the the thing that I I I agree with you boomer. And and the thing is what the players say about him they really respect him as leader and so he's There's always something good they say about him and He works hard. He's he's a he's a team player he's So we we we got. We got really good quarterback back in And hopefully they'll I'm sure they'll get him. Signed up forty cents. Is it tough for you that Jason Garrett was let go and replaced by Mike McCarthy. 'cause I know you were friends with Jason Jason. Good a guy and Hopefully he'll do well with the giants but they're they're probably know needed to be some kind of stirring up There because Dallas's been it's been a little disappointment Based on the talent we have and and so making a change Might be might be really good for for for Jason for for the cowboys. And and and everything. I hear about coach McCarthy from an and I don't know but I hear from friends that do know him. It's it's really positive good. How many times have you been on the Jerry? Jones Yacht Zil Zero but I'll be on there tomorrow. Oh good morning good good morning first time then. Three hundred feet well but he just he just bought it. Yeah no I what what are you going on there for like a big party or something in this having our own on it. I don't mean the imitations that you get one get me one. Little Roger Roger Starbuck. Excuse me to be a part of their unless it rains or something. Let's say you're on. The rain will go away from that. The clouds will part art jerry. Jones yacht part. I'm just wondering Roger. Is it a cowboys only kind of party you or I have no idea I just my wife and I did get invited so you did okay. Who's going to be on their cowboy? Only I issue for stuff. You're asking Roger. These cool invites Vitamin D. You can I come doing here. You WanNa hang out with all the famous. I think you have to be right handed. It's the greatest right-handers rogers great talk at Ti. Always over to this every year. And I know you're doing great work with USAA and the N._F._l.. Salute to service and they got a lot of stuff happening this week and you are the best ambassador for that. So thanks. Roger Great thanks.

cowboys Jerry Jones Roger Roger Starbuck Dallas Cowboys Coach Landry Cincinnati NFL Jimmy Johnson football Dak Prescott Roger Great Troy Aikman USAA Golly boomer Naval Academy America Don Meredith
Roger Craig, 49ers Legend

The Sporting Life with Jeremy Schaap

19:20 min | 3 months ago

Roger Craig, 49ers Legend

"Is your money not sure what to do with itself right now at ally. They'll help it save for the future with their smart savings tools. Bucket your money for the things that matter most analyze your spending and save automatically all on top of a competitive rate for all things money you deserve an ally visit a Y. dot com slash savings for more info. Ally do it right ally bank member. Fdic this is the sporting life on ESPN radio and the ESPN APP. Here's Jeremy Chef. Start the legend of the NFL arguably one of the best players. Not In the hall of Fame Three Time Super Bowl champion for the San Francisco. Forty niners running back Roger. Craig Roger. Thank you for joining us on my treasures Jerry. This is awesome Rodrigue. It's really an honor for us to have you on the show. I was a fan of your teams. In the way you played back in the nineteen eighties you came into lead from Nebraska and those remarkable forty niners teams with Joe Montana Ronnie Lott But but but what I WANNA talk to you about today. And you're in the advisory board for this APP. It's called sports threat and in it's about connecting high school athletes With coaches with colleges at this time when there can be no a regular time right now because of the social you know You know connection with Cronin Virus. You know that this application is is amazing. Sports thread is such a great social networking application for youth sports and thank God for their platform created by Sean leary the CEO You know 'cause we are going through this pandemic of this corona virus and uses you know are logging into the application. You know you wouldn't believe it. They're logging into four times a day. So I I. It's great for high school athletes that they're not letting the Kernan virus affect them. They're they're emailing coaches coaches and And trying to promote themselves to create an opportunity to play in college. And that's what it's all about at the end of the day you know and that's being creative. So we're speaking to the former all pro running back from San Francisco. Forty niners Roger Craig and Rogers on the Advisory Panel for this application of free social networking APP and this isn't just a commercial for sports. But it's it's doing something It's kind of It's interesting right now because as I said you can't have face to face contact visits right now obviously school. What are athletes use them? They're blowing up. The you know the rap I mean. It's four times a day. These guys are are trying to reach out to to to see coat the college coaches and you know you know to to to to promote themselves basically. How does it work? Well you know they have to just go go online and and and and connect with you know with the schools that you want to go to and in and then they can show their video and and they can do. They can even talk on the video for for themselves. You know for coast to see how the kids how. How a kid that they're trying to you know to recruit you know so so it's amazing You know out you know that Sports created is pretty awesome. You know this is what we need right now and I'm assuming obviously this is all kosher within the rules of the NCAA. They're all kinds of Arcadia. Obviously all legal. They're all kinds of arcane rules. About what kind of communication is allowed between coaches and recruits? But this is really mostly bad. Not not the big stars who are being recruited who the coaches. We're GONNA find them the cool thing about this out. The coaches could go back all throughout their whole career of high school. You know all for three years you know whatever years I mean. There's some schools ninth grade. You know and summer or just just you know you you go from the south more on up but you can go off all three to four years back. How great these these players were in easy to you know to recruit them I I. It's like you know they use they. They they they can just see how they progress over the years you know. And that's the cool thing about this about this sports threat. You know you know advocation you know that that. They have communication with the kids. And and all their stats. Everything is all put on this APP. You know y you know makes it easy for recruiters go out to recruit them. You know so. They don't even have to even go to the school. You know to recruit the kidding. Just go from. Look at and say Oh. This kid can play Bam give him a scholarship ride. You played for one of the legendary college coaches of all time. Tom Osborne Nebraska. I wouldn't be. I wouldn't be talking to you today because of him. Really no reason why Okay my junior year I was. I was all big eight. That's when it was called the big eight conference all seventy-nine Yup and I was all big eight. You know You know junior you know going into my senior year you know And I'm thinking wow I get chance you know. Be a heisman candidate or something you know you know. I was preseason American. They promoted me up. There'd be preseason all American all of that and then Mike. Rosier game came in and Coach Osborne called me to his office and he asked me Roger. Would you switch to fullback because you we we have other running by coming in? That could be really potent. You know backfield would would you to in the backfield together. I say a coach. If it's going to help us win so be it. I'll play fullback and that year. We lost only one game and Tom Osborne you know I mean he he he he just loved me to death when when I did that for him and so but you know. I didn't know that John Gruden's father was with the professional scout for bill loss. And so John Gruden's coach for the raiders. His father `to bill wash what I did. My senior year unselfish. Not Been Self centered. 'cause most guys would would transfer and go to another school. You know to do that. You know a the senior year on top of that. So bill washed draft me. Is this first? Pick in nineteen eighty. Three 'cause you know. He saw what I did and he knew that I I was versatile could could be a full back and running back but he didn't know I could catch it though he didn't know I could catch the ball so I heard that they're interested in me. You Know I. It was a sports illustrated where I read. Is that Bill Washes instant drafting Roger Craig. I'm like Oh my gosh. I tried to catch the ball because Nebraska Rosca. We didn't run catch any passes. We just ran the ball down your throat so I call one hundred passes a day passes a day just in case. They drafted me as the first pick and they did and I was prepared. Irving Fryar must have caught a few passes right collar. Couple talking about talent. I mean with yourself and Zere in. Fryer all there at that time plan for Tom. Osborne remarkable and then you go you go to the NFL. We're speaking with Roger Craig. The former all pro running back for the San Francisco Forty niners three time super bowl champion. And you're one of the great dual threats ever coming out of the backfield hundred eighty five in that season. After you guys had won the Super Bowl the previous year you had a thousand fifty rushing yards. Yeah you had a thousand sixteen receiving yards ninety two reception and I guess I guess what position. I was playing full when I did that. You were back. I led the whole. Nfl in receiving with ninety two catches. I caught more path any receiver in a league and I was a fool bag. You know on top of that you know I never. I was on the field. Ninety eight percent of the time you know hard it is to do a thousand thousand you know to be on the field ninety eight percent of the time. I never left the field. So yeah so. So the millennials are definitely Are Chasing you know. Thousand thousand I I really. I'm happy for Christian McCaffrey. Because he's just did it back in November who's past November and Marshall. Faulk DID IT. You know Like well eighteen years after I did it Christian. Mccaffrey did it just about nineteen eighteen years after Marcia fog did it. So it's really tough to do if nothing it's not it's not hard. I mean I it's. It's not easy that you can just go out and do thousand thousand. That's really a tough thing to do. A Lotta athletes tried to do it over the years and they couldn't they didn't succeed. There's only been three and I was number one. You know the first one ride you you would. You look around Right now here. It is the beginning of May And though the world around us has basically been shut down for the last two months. Do you think there's going to be football in the fall? I think is GonNa be football in the fall. I really do You know it's GonNa we still got a you know. Do our social you know distance. Stand away from each other for a while but I think they're gonNA they're gonNA be football. It's football is is such a big sport you know. And it's GONNA be a lose a revenue if they don't put football out in the Field Roger. This company that you work with sports thread. It's an APP which is connecting athletes. High School athletes to colleges and it gives them the opportunity to showcase their skills to disseminate their skills for coaches and for colleges. And and this this all existed before the corona virus correct. Yeah there ahead time I mean you know you know The Guy Sean leary the C O Of Sports Threat. They created this this platform for kids. You know a few years ago and Dicko Donald turned me onto. This guy was one of my colleagues. I worked with a typical software. I reported to him. Marketing Guy Head of marketing at the time. And and so he he did this on the side and he brought me along to be a part of it. And I've talked to Lauren night this morning. And we're all excited about about sports threat and everything. But what how? How the company's doing and so this is really a great platform for high school kids to us. You know to to be able to put their their all their stats and all their video. You know so. College coaches can see what they've accomplished because they all want to go to college. They all want to play in college. You know and and these kids you know. They have the platform to do it with sports threat. We're speaking with Roger Craig. The legendary running back for the forty niners and I mentioned the introduction when we started the show Roger that you're arguably one of the best players not in the hall of fame you can have sometime and it's really it's really tough man you know but you know. I I look at this way. You know You Know I. I made impact in the sport. You know I created this. This this platform for the millennials. They're after thousand thousand and you know people don't realize I did two thousand dollars two different positions where I did at full-back and I did at half back in eighty eight. I you know I I have fifteen hundred yards rushing six hundred receiving over two thousand yards in two different positions. No they don't even talk about that you know and MVP the NFC that year in sports illustrated player of the year. You know so. It's like wait a minute. Why why? Why am I not going to haul so? I think it's going to happen. You know Soon I think would happen this year but this current advisor kind of interrupted. A little bit. You know you know. That's why they stay. They didn't even have a hall of fame induction this year. You know so. It's Kinda Kinda sad you know but it's going to happen and and I'm not gonNA worry about it. You Know Roger as one of the pillars of that forty niners dynasty. That one those three Super Bowls under Bill Walsh to under George. Siefert know the conversation obviously the last few years especially after last year when the Patriots won their Sixth Super Bowl is that Patriots dynasty greater than forty niners. And Look. This is what we talk about in sports You know I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid to admit that the Patriots had done some really impressive things. Planning Tom Brady is one of my favorite guys that I love talking about. You know he's from the you know. The Bay area's in San Mateo. Good friends with his father. Tom Brady played in nine super bowls and won six. Come on you gotta give him the best saying he's the best you know. I if you're not giving them if you're not giving me that kind of props to San. He's he's not the best ever then. You're you're jealous you know. This guy is amazing high. You know what I I mean. I understand your point. I'm not disagreeing. I'm just surprised to be hearing that from a guy who you know who's there with Joe Montana. We know super bowls. Well well you know like I say you know what the Joe did his thing. He started at all he. That's Tom by Joe Montana. Did that motivated Tom. You know so but you think about it. Tom Has played in nine super bowls and won six pretty good. I mean what quarterback has done that you know so you can't you can't be biased and and and just you know And be be jealous if someone no. I'm not jealous of Tom Brady. I'm proud of Tom. Brady you know like I said I'm good friends with his father you know and and and And hopefully he'll he`ll. He's got a good job in Tampa when he goes down there. I'm pretty sure he will. Because he's a leader he's A. He's a great leader. You know and they they'll leave. The team was definitely step up with Tom. Brady being on thirteen and we're speaking with Roger Craig the NFL LEGEND. Who expects at some point to be in the hall of fame? He's certainly got a very strong case. But we mentioned earlier. You know you played in college for Tom. Osborne you played in the pros for bill. Walsh two of the guys in the conversation among the ten most Successful iconic coaches in the history of this great game but it so different. At least the way I I didn't know either of them have been around each minimally. I'm not sure I've been around either other than covering a game But but how would you compare their approaches? Well they're on the same page because it's not about. They coach that it's not about you. It's about the team and I learned that in high school. My High School because really taught me that. That's why Cozy Osborne like me so well because you know What I did in high school I. I did the same thing. I switched to fullback and blocked. You know you know. And so he likes that you know they. He knew that I was team guys. Not About me. It's about the team. And that's my whole attitude that I took from high school to to collegiate to professionals and to to corporate. I have the same mentality here. Tipco I work at typical software and I'm business. Development is my title I've been with TIPCO for twenty years. You know and and we've been and that's how I met Dicko Donald Dick O'Donnell Termi on sports threat. You know and Dicko. Donald was the guy I reported to when I first started TIPCO you know and and so I learned all these things and they and when you when you learn these types of things it helps you later in life. You know. 'cause you're not selfish and I'm from the Mid West and I keep my mid west values with me. I'm humble always going to be humble. Human being I learned from my brother I learned from Walter. Payton learning from a lot of people that you know that Kinda Kinda helped my hand and a little bit you know and so it's important in life you know to know your values and I stick to my values and that's what I know the hall of fame. We'll be coming up. You know one day they'll get me in. I don't cry about it. I don't talk about it. You know And just let them do do. When they're ready for me. Roger Craig Nineteen eighty-eight and fell offensive player of the year. Three time super bowl champion of four time pro Bowler one time first team all pro and one of the cornerstones of one of the great dynasties in the history of sports writer. It's really been a pleasure. Though you know knows another thing yesterday. You know. I made all decade with Walter Payton Eric Dickerson. I. I'm on your side on this one. Roger I'm wizard I you're only nine years older than me. But you know you were when I was a kid you know in the NFL in the nineteen eighties. I mean you couldn't be much better than Roger Craig. Awesome says thank you Roger. Thanks for being on the show. Pleasure man this the this brain gives me life. You know to be able to talk with you on the show bring up. The are my history all things that positive things I've done in life you know and do these crazy corona virus times. You know. I need this kind of stuff you know. So thank you so much for having me on your show and you got me. I got goosebumps. All where my wife my wife go make me go grocery store now when I when I think those super bowls I get goosebumps to Roger. Craig care. Bye-bye I'm Jeremy Shop and you can listen to new editions of the sporting life every Saturday and Sunday morning on ESPN radio and ESPN APP. Beginning at six. Am Eastern time.

Roger Craig Craig Roger NFL Tom Brady Tom Coach Osborne High School Nebraska football San Francisco Joe Montana ESPN John Gruden Sean leary Tom Osborne Bill Walsh Dicko Donald
Roger Ebert on Money Movies

Motley Fool Money

02:46 min | 6 months ago

Roger Ebert on Money Movies

"The Motley fool money extra. I'm Chris Hill. In a few days. They'll start handing out the academy awards so before Oscar gets his close up. Let's spend a couple of minutes with Roger. The league great. Great Roger was the first film critic ever to win the Pulitzer Prize. His column in the Chicago Sun Times was syndicated to more than two hundred newspapers across America and he published more than twenty books in his career as much as anyone. He was a life-long fan. And booster of movies. and the art of filmmaking back in two thousand and two who molly full CEO. Tom Gardner talked with Roger. Ebert about great business movies and the future of blockbuster video now we play a game each week on the show in which we call by seller hold but before we get to that. I want to just ask you because we're a business and money show. Is there a single movie or one or two movies that stand out in your mind as being extraordinary a films about business or money that our listeners. For you know I think the funniest line of dialogue The David Mamat has ever written was about money and came in his movie of two thousand one called Heist the heist Danny Devito is trying to convince Gene Hackman to pull one more job and she says he doesn't WanNA WANNA do it really goes sailing and it'd be just as you got to do it and Hackman says why do I have to do it. And devito says for the money and Hackman says I don't like money. The veto comes up with this classic. Ma'am line which ought to be the motto of the Motley Fool. Everybody likes money. That's why they call it money. Okay now let's play by seller. Hold we present you with a person place or thing. An event theme an organization and we ask Hugh if it were a stock. Would you be buying selling or holding away by seller hold given the encroaching technologies blockbuster. I would good Cell and why because I think that electronic means of transmission are going to eventually replace the trip to the video store and I think blockbuster itself is investing in that area. I think they'll be video on. Demand will come in by satellite or Internet Roger. Roger Ebert was right to sell in twenty ten blockbuster video filed for bankruptcy. That's for the money quote. He was off by a little bit but correct in his sentiment. And it's not the official motto for the Motley Fool but it is definitely how we like to begin motley fool money each week. I'm Chris Hill. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.

Roger Ebert blockbuster Gene Hackman Motley Chris Hill Danny Devito Roger academy awards Chicago Sun Times Pulitzer Prize Tom Gardner Oscar CEO David Mamat America Hugh official
Turchyn Tunes GRUPO YURI Beginnings with Roger Wolford Episode 01

Turchyn Tunes

36:37 min | 3 years ago

Turchyn Tunes GRUPO YURI Beginnings with Roger Wolford Episode 01

"Welcome to another episode of Church in Tunes where we talk about past present and Future Music Inroads. Coming out of musicians mind. This is Christina. Kotler retouching. I have a feeling that we've done this. Before this is like deja Vu. We talked once before a long time ago. Our first podcast together and that was the start of our romance of the time. It's episode sixty six in sixty seven because we talked so much. We had it into two parts. The we touched on a lot of topics. And I think we want to revisit one especially because it's something that you brought up once or twice very quietly you want to talk more about the music that you did twenty years ago and you worked with. Somebody named Roger Roger Wolford. Roger passed away a couple years ago unfortunately at a very young age. Great Drummer what. What's a young age? Who This is maybe early fifties really young. Oh he was much younger than me. He's like twenty years younger than me. Okay now I see where you had this professional relationship. That really altered where you're going with your music. There are instances life for you as a person either have mentors or you have prodigies or you have main teas or you have somebody that you're tutoring or somebody does it for you. In this case there was a good back and forth because Roger was a youngster. But he gave me the impetus and the desire to do something that I hadn't done before that is to have my own band. Instrumentally PLAYING VIOLIN. Being a soloist. Which I've never done before. I was always aside man on violin. He gave me a chance or proposed in late. Nineteen ninety-five to start instrumental band. Original grant how did you meet him before this? You got to this point because you played in another band with him how I met him was through someone referring me too bad. That was looking for violinist to fill in for the original ban. They had to keep more players drama. Which was Roger and Bass Player? They all sang. The all came from Berkeley School Music in Boston. Really accomplished musicians called Selfish Jones Fish Jones never heard of the selfish maybe year short lived but instrumental in and I said that ponding Louis Roger was very young. He heard me play said. Why don't we start a band together? And that's when he suggested that. And I I've never been a primary soloist like John Dupont Lockwood Seffrin Grappelli GIOVANNUCCI. Renounced in Ellington's ban. I never did that before. So here. Is the onus is on me to become the instrumentalists frontman also the compose. Now what happened was Roger. Very much believed in what I could do. We started seminary and I said okay. Here's what I could do. I could take tune that I wrote and change it into the style. The jazz style that I have previously written for a different purpose with lyrics to accompany or to accommodate our vision and he brought in to other musicians. Dave Kula women. We call Dave from the grave because of his dark side only on visual but he was a very nice person and Mike Di Girolamo and guitar was classically trained and electric guitarist also because he played in so many rock bands and Cetera and he was excellent. Excellent and fitting into this hall genre. Roger and I would talk every day. We started the ban. He named group or Yuri. He named some of the tunes that did not have monitors to them very creative. He recommended that we call the band. Group or usually is that it was Latin based it was a very rhythmically world oriented and much Latino based rhythms and melodies. So that's what we did. We took some things. Initially that were I wrote in a prior style and transformed. Captain it to that Finding allies being lost speed baby gap Ronson. Junior that's all my mind. We Baby Ruler that legal I A gene Roger was instrumental in that he called me every day. We were talking on the phone. We were planning tours. We were just having fun being enthusiastic about the project we started playing festivals start playing jazz and Blues Festivals. Start playing clubs that were out of the way. Some of them were even punk rock clubs and people loved us no matter what but they gave us a chance to play because it was so different. And that's the journey of that particular ensemble. We able to become a really solid and very disciplined band with enough room for everyone to be able to solo express themselves be part of the band be part of unit. I wasn't just because I was the solids does not mean that it was all around me. I was part of them as much as they were. Pardon so tell me a little bit how you played before Grupo Yousry became your band. You played in another band. You had your own that you got together. And that was now. Voyager and many of the tunes off of now. Voyager seemed to be very appropriate to. What's happening today musically as well as the lyrics so you had songs and you're singing before you went instrumental true and I understand your question or your your statement. You could take any song and change. Its rhythm it's approach its instrumentation and vary it. So what you're saying is what I had with now. Voyager had lyric base to it perhaps a different approach rhythmically Harmonica Satcher. But because I needed to have something to base my new genre on and I needed somewhere to start a springboard I use some prior compositions and adapted both hot still their own identity and both had different titles and we will go into that another time or in this podcast as we go along that also was a springboard for me to write differently for me to write instrumentally for it the Violin Guitar Bass drums etc to have their own voices and that was a challenge and I really met. I wasn't trying to be the Solo. The one person that compose Michael To we had a couple of tunes for Michael for instance he wrote a really beautiful thing called spray over the bow and Mary's tune which was dedicated to his wife Roger. He gave his all. He contributed to a song called. Freak in a drum solo. That was rather unique He insisted on having copyright equality and I told him I said Right Drum. Solos stole make copyrights first of all only copyrights are lyrics melody. Arrangements words plays. They're jerks Edrich Drum Solos. Don't become copyright yielded. I go regret it. I think it's a good thing may or may not influence. Its future airplay but it was wonderful. It was still wonderful. He participated enthusiastically. He had the people that he really adored. As far as mentors were one was jeff for Carol from the West Coast. There were many west coast player jazz players fusion pliers that he admired he always brought up this bass player. Patootie and Krizia with his band and all the players that were fusion players who develop that style of and it wasn't easy one one jazz. This was jazz way out there too. So what we did. And what happened was just a wonderful ensemble of people and we ended up having an edition in mark. Markle ISKRA. Here's your who's percussionist and became a quintet. The ban lasted for a few years. What you were telling me is that you would rehearse twice a week. They would come to all the rehearsals they would all contribute to the program to the expression of NC seeing where things are going. How would you compare with what you see now musically and some of the bands that not necessarily that you have played in but that you've seen that are performing out there compared to what you've come across back in the day does a great question and it depends on the time you have people that are dedicated enough to your the music itself? The quality of persons who can actually compose the music whether it's singer songwriters lyricists jus- lyricists or or or Song. Writers who write only music or instrumentalists that right and it's a hard call my experiences. I love what I did. I would like to give it a resurgence. There was a huge gap hiatus. I believe that right now. Because of Roger's maybe spirit. I have a new feeling of resurgence and renaissance in bringing this back not as a tribute to him so much but the music speaks for itself. I really wanted to come back very kind of you to include him. He deserves it. He was the one that actually inspired me to become that person that I am before that I was a songwriter singer songwriter. I was a fiddle player guitar player. Still Lamb still am. I know music very well have been educated in it. I've been vice experienced in it but Roger was very instrumental in my being the person that right now. I'm sitting here going. This was the guy that helped me become the person that I am despite his youth to my age at that time that gap does not mean a time line but it is a a thread a string theory the vibrates in one's life and he gave me a string theory. Thank him for you. Put together a three song SPEC recording. How'd you decide on that? And how did you well worth? It was very simple. I think Roger knew the connection with the studio and the engineer and the owner of the studio goddess. Three Song Spec deal we did it. It was okay. I won't go into the details because it wasn't very business positive for us. We separate the studio owner and us in separate so when our own ways? I luckily had my own studio so we did a lot of recording because I have a lot of archival material the Roger was inspirational in creating or for me to create through his inspiration and of course the other members to cross the cooperation necessary to do these things. Tell me about the music that you did use because you said it was manipulated it. You changed it around to go ahead into this new format. It just was time thing. We had a week to go to the studio. That's when the studio was open for three songs and I said Okay I what am I gonNA do? I took three songs rag recording the different version and made it instrumentals. I'll have them on the podcast as an example of original version. And instrumental verse. I A I Who would know unless you know we're talking about? Were actually divulging. The secrets behind them. But anything can change. The everything is adaptable. We see that in an every genre of in culture and the arts and creative arts. Well what I think when I listened to some of the tombs that came from whether it was now voyager or a group. I feel that it's very it's high concept it's something that can be ageless as he said worldly mind that really interesting that it stays fresh even the titles of the. Song's lyrics seems to kind of encapsulate of what's going on in world today. We're in our in our lives today. Lucky I don't know just happened to have foresight I don't know was it timeline. Yes because at that. Moment when your juices work creatively either as topical or political or anything like romantic with CETERA. I at the time was very influenced by technology that was evolving politics that were evolving The Times. The current events revolving. And You write about him. Are they enough to say? Does it apply today yet? I think it does. And if we would play those particular tunes are say you know I was even prescient because nothing's changed in twenty years or even one hundred thousand years? Humans have been here. We're always doing something. That seems to be repetitious. Not only that giving that message but it sounds like you're having so much fun as I read in The New York Times magazine. There was an article about Tom. Waits and he said. How do you create the Music? And he said there's no walls or ceilings or floors. It's just. You're in the meadow and listening to this music. Makes me feel like I'm in the meadow and I'm saying well. I'm seeing these guys playing in the meadow so it sounds like you're having a lot of fun when you're performing or when you were going to. That's awful no but it was. Well put because once you take the stage. After all the work that's been put in rehearsing dissecting changing adapting each performance can have its own signature the second one the third one the fourth one it evolves every song evolves and the more you play together the more evolution is in the plane. You don't even have to look at each other to know what you're GonNa do next and we can follow a pattern or we can follow a chart. Meaning you know the formula of the song by within the farming variations. And we did that so well. We did that so so really well. Unfortunately we did have our differences at some point juncture. In Time Roger decided to leave. We changed horses in the middle of the Stream. I went on a guy. Got Another drummer or a couple of more drummers and Bass player's group were you survive for awhile but within the context of this kind of music and genre. The amount of players that you need to succeed into having this music accomplished on stage requires some sometimes six players and the feed them and have that ongoing sustainability without being a copy band or tribute band. Playing cocktail lounges and said S. A tough slog. So here we are. We're discussing this. I'm attributing to Roger and saluting him. For of these giving me that impetus and the opportunity now to at least give him some recognition for what he started and very few people know this. I really hope people listen to our podcast. And here as I will be transmitting. The music with it. The talent that went into this and I miss it and I hope I can find that again. I think that says it all This podcast was recorded at chief. Productions AND PRODUCED BY MARCH HARE MEDIA GO TO MARCH HARE MEDIA DOT COM. And see you next time.

Louis Roger Roger Roger Wolford deja Vu Berkeley School Music Christina Boston Dave Kula Grupo Yousry John Dupont Lockwood Ellington Yuri Ronson Harmonica Satcher NC Mike Di Girolamo West Coast Michael Carol engineer Patootie
The Legend of Raja Rasalu- Part I

Myths, Legends, and Fairytales of India

23:44 min | 1 year ago

The Legend of Raja Rasalu- Part I

"In those knows you'll do it right to get your backyard. Ready for entertaining. We do it right to with everything you need to create an inviting space and save at the same time. Make the stakes to keep your guests. Coming back for more and save with fifty dollars off select grills and smokers and for plants that come back every year pick up two and a half four Perennials now three for twelve dollars. Whatever you need to get back yard. You're proud of do it right for less. Start with Lowe's. Offers valid through April twenty four th see store for details. US only perennial offer excludes Alaska and Hawaii. Welcome to the myths legends and fairy tales of India where he bring to you stories of kings, and queens, all Princess fairy. And of crafty, wizards and magical be these are classic tales of a vengeful magic and drama. Brought to you in a new of Dodd by God house study. The legend of Roger Salou, balked one. Before we get into the story of Raja Lou lettuce. I try and understand who he was Raja Sahu bliss, the son of king subban who ruled in the area of what is now known as the northeastern Pakistan. This was around the second century eighty so about one thousand eight hundred years ago in the book Indian fairytales. Joseph Jacobs has an entire deal around the adventures of Roger. When we compare it to the history of this king and his lenient mentioned in Wikipedia. We can see that the mid is a little different. Well, quite different from what might have been recorded. These rethought of giving a brief background of this king before we dive into his adventures. Roger Sullivan also known as salon was a king who lived in the second century. See he is believed to have founded before of now in the job province of Pakistan. Raja salon or sell. Baen had to vice named that. I need lunar Chimba and Ronnie ichard on. Ronnie Luna Gabe from family of Jammu world. Ronnie each Ron belonged to a family who lived in new gawky, which was close to the king's capital city Roger sell. Baen had a great respect for Ronnie each and loved her very much. He built a very attractive palace for which was about nine square minds that is about twenty three square kilometers in area and was designed and constructed by architects and engineers from Greece. A wonderful roared was built from the fort to Ronnie each Ron spannis passed through mean town, the bazaars and the government offices wind Romney it transparent. This was close to completion. She gave birth to a beautiful child who was Roger sell bonds, fourth son and in line to be the next king. The people of Sialkot were very happy and be celebrated his book the balance was decorated with lights for many weeks, people visited to see the palace from all parts of the country. On the advice of some local pundits, astrologists and pomace. The young Princess was named hooter. It's on the lunar who was the second wife of Roger SEL. Bonn was childless. Johnnie Luna off the elder cream felt jealous of hall and did not miss an opportunity to insult Rani each Ron and her son wouldn't been spoon grew up to be a handsome young, man. Now once light to jostle Bonn by telling him that prince Putin had misbehaved withhold Roger salon became so infuriated that he ordered his soldiers to cut off prince Putin's hands and feet and throw him in a well the soldiers carried out the king's orders and through the prince in a well outside the city called as Hoon's. Well. Incidentally, a spiritual teacher who lived near the China. Guru guru, not happened to pass by that well with his companions while they were resting near the will be found the injured prince and rescued him after the prince had partially recovered and related his story. Guru guru not invited him to join his group. Thus began Putin's, physical, recovery and spiritual training. After a few years of St. guru guru cannot ordered to prince to stay beside the will built him a camp for his residence. The good old Ben department to Shalem then spoon stayed there for many years and gave spiritual advice to the people of the area with the passage of time he became quite famous among the people and came to be known as wouldn't bogut. When Putin burger burgers, fem- reached the palace of Ronnie. Luna was still childless she visited him along with Roger SEL bonds and requested him to pray for her. Putin told them that he would be only if Ronnie Luna would tell him where the prince Warren was guilty or innocent of the crime. That he was punished for this shocked Sony. Luna who cried and cried and finally revealed the truth. Rogersville? Bonn was for the shocked when Putin revealed his identity, he requested fooding to forgive them and accompany them to his palace Roger sell bond was for the shot when Putin revealed his identity. He requested Putin to forgive them and accompany them to his palace. But Putin refused and told the king that once the Lord forgives them both for their sins. They will get blessed with a son who should be named the son. Leader Roger sell. Bon built a place for worship and arranged free distribution of food at the camp of Putin game. When he died. His funeral took place on a mound in front of the place where he used to well. Oh, beautiful small tomb was erected in his remembrance. It is said that even to be wounds. Well is a famous historical site located just outside the city of Sialkot Raja loop was born after the debt of Roger sell. Bon code prospered greatly during his rule now. Let us begin with the legend off Raja. Once there lived a great Raja whose name boys subban and he had a Queen by the knee Lou now. Though, she wept and prayed at many a shrine she never had a child to gladden her eyes. After a long time. However, a son was promised to her by a scene. We Luna returned to the palace soon. The time for the ball of the promised son Jew kills. One day three Jogi scame begging to her gates. We do not ask the job. He's what her child's fate would be the youngest of them on sort and said or Queen China will be boy, and he lived to be a great, man. For twelve years. You must not look at his face. Four if either you or as follows c before the twelve years are past. Surely die. This is what you must do as soon as the child is born you must send him away to a cellar underneath the ground. Never let him see the light of day for twelve years after the twelve years are over. He may come forth bathe in the river on new clothes and visit you he's name Shelby dodger saw he showed me known foreign white. So when a fad young prince was Indu time born into the Queen Hispanics hid him away in an underground palace. These noses and sylvan's, and if ripping ails akin son might desire and with him, they send a young gold born the same day and sword spill and shield letter were sent for the day when Roger solut- should go forth into the world. So there. The child lived playing with the schooled and talking to the spattered while the Noces start him all things need food for the king's son to know, young rissole Naved on from the light of the D for eleven long years. He grew tall and strong. He was contented to remain playing with the schools and talking to Hispanics. When the twelve year began the young Princess heart leapt up with desire for change. He loved to listen to the sounds of life, which came to him in his ballast. Risen from the outside world. I'm must go and see where the wisest come from. He said when his nose is told him, he must not go for one more, your he'll need ofter loud. See I longer your. Then he saddled his out of horse whose name was porn. Don't is shining mood and ruled forth into the world. He claimed to the river when he dismounted and going into the water he washed himself and his clothes, then clean of any dust and fair face and brave of heart. He's rode on his we until he reached his father city there. He sat down to rest a while by a world where the women were drawing water in pictures now as they passed him their food pictures rested upon their heads, not t-. Young prince flow stones are not all the nurses and broke them. All then the women drenched with water when we being and weeding to the palace and complained to the king that mighty young prince in shining. Almo- had caused all this. He had a parrot on his wrist and a gallant Steed beside him. He was sitting by the well and broken their pictures. Now as soon as Raja sell bond hord this he guests at once that it was blizzard asong who had left us Balas before the time. He was mindful of the job as words that he would die. If he looked on his thumbs space before his son was twinned years old. He didn't dare to send his gods to seize the offender and bring him to be punished. Instead, he made the women me comforted. Antique pitchers of all your bras, giving new ones from his treasury. But when prince rissole soul the women returning to the well with pictures of iron and bras, he oft to himself. He. He been through his mighty boo to shop pointed atas feels the metal vessels as they had been of clay yet still the king did not send for him. So the mounted his feet and set off to the palace. He strode into the audience hall where his father sat trembling and saluted him with all reverence, but Roger salon in fear of his life, toned, his back history and said never a word in reply. Then prince rissole calls cone fully to him across the hall. I came to greet you, okay? And not to harm you. What did I done that you should turn away sewn shoes? And imperial have no power to Chom me. I go to seek a worthy apprise them them. All. Then he stole the we full of bitterness angle. But as he paused under the palace windows, he hold his woman weeping. He knew right away that she was mother he was angry with all the spans for tracking him so badly, but the sound of weeping softened, his heart and his anger died down. Great loneliness fell upon him because he was spawned by both father and mother. So he cried sorrowfully shun me o mother and get your shit tears. Me. Why pray or lady that me you diffuse to see? And Queen Luna on cert through her tears. Yes. Your mother remind the why we treat my words as true, go find your own destiny, but keep the heart. Good pure. So Roger Lou was comforted and he began to prepare for his journey. He took with him his horse Boehner and Hispanic both of whom had lived with him since he was born. So they made a goodly company and Queen Luna watch them from her window. Does she saw nothing, but a cloud of dust on the horizon, then she bowed her head on her hands and wet resolu- had started off to play chopper with king circa was known to be an expert player. King circa rule. The kingdom to the east Andhra Sala was determined to defeat this export champion and as rissole journeyed on one. Be there came a fierce storm of tunder and lighting. He sought shelter, but he found nothing, but an old graveyard headless corpse Liepa on the ground there. So lonesome was it that even the call fem- d- company as much undesirable as it was the son who sat down decided. And immediately the headless corpse of rules and sat beside Roger son. The do began talking what these said it is not quite new, but the night passed on dark ready while resolve who sat in the graveyard and talked to the headless corpse. Now when morning broke Andrew saw loose said he must continue his journey the headless corpse of Tim widow. He was going resolute applied. I'm going to play chopper with king circa. The pope's begged him to give up the idea thing. Role. Do I know his ways? Three day before break. I. Three. Joe's to abuse. One was. Schorr leap of yours on some things order. No. Be sub wolf to boards from green. Cured dice all too. The is. With each book. News. There were shoe. He. Soda solid took some of the bones lying about and fashioned then into dice, and these he put into his pocket then bidding or do due to the headless corpse. He went on his way to play chopper with king now is Roger Assad Lou tenderhearted and strong Joni along to play chopper with the king. He came to a boarding forest. There of Weiss rose from the fire sing? Then the prince stones to the bullying forest stand low. He discovered that. The wise was the whys of a tiny, cricket nevertheless, resolve Lou tenderhearted, and strong snatched it from the file sit flee then the little creature full of gratitude gave his head to the sun. He said. Smiled. See? What could you give me? Nevertheless, he kept the hair. Henry Don his way what happens next. Listen to the story. The legend of Roger Hulu to learn more. Thank you for listening. Today's story. We would love to hear your feedback. You can write to us at contact at Gotha story dot com. Would you like to read alone? Today's story we have a brand new website just for this. Visit midst and legends India dot com. From where you can listen to your favorite stories and read along as you listen this story was originally published by Jews of Jacobs in his book Indian fairy teams it has been edited and v written by a Maria for brevity, context and simplicity off language. This notation is produced by gotta story for the midst legends and fairytales of India and is narrated by shit, Ali Bidu. Mixing vision indus-.

prince Putin Roger Johnnie Luna Roger Lou Roger salon India Roger Salou Roger Sullivan Pakistan Raja Lou Raja Joseph Jacobs Roger SEL Ronnie Luna Gabe Roger sell Raja Sahu Ronnie Roger Hulu Ron spannis Roger solut
Roger Stone Sentenced; Far-Right Terror Attack in Germany

WSJ What's News

13:42 min | 5 months ago

Roger Stone Sentenced; Far-Right Terror Attack in Germany

"What lies ahead for our planet find out on an extraordinary trip with the Wall Street Journal and National Geographic Expeditions. Book now at NAT. Go EXPEDITION DOT COM SLASH WSJ or call. Eight eight eight two. Oh five five six two one. President trump isn't pardoning longtime ally Roger Stone at least not yet and I'm following this very closely and I want to see it play out to its fullest because Roger has a very good chance of exoneration in my opinion we'll look at where the stone case is headed next and yesterday a shootings in an immigrant community in. Germany are fueling a tense political debate over the rise of far-right extremism the government of doing everything in his power to crack down on on on these things essentially however for for the immigrant populations dissertation is becoming more difficult. It's Thursday February twentieth. I'm emory for totally for the Wall Street Journal. Here's what's news. Morgan Stanley is set to gain five million retail customers with thirteen billion dollar acquisition of discount broker e-trade financial the all stock deal is the biggest takeover by a US bank since the two thousand eight financial crisis. E-trade also brings Morgan Stanley about three hundred sixty billion dollars in assets and an online bank with cheap deposits each raids future had been uncertain since November when its two main competitors Charles Schwab and td Ameritrade announced their own merger? Schwab put pressure on E. Trade when it cut its trading fees two zero. Japanese officials are defending their handling of corona virus victims aboard the Diamond Princess cruise ship to passenger deaths have now been reported one of them. A woman in her eighties had a fever for a week before getting to a hospital. The ship has been docked in Yokohama. Since taking a two week tour of East Asia and has gradually emptying out s people diagnosed with the virus being brought to hospitals more than six hundred passengers and crew members have been diagnosed with the virus out of more than three thousand who have been tested and we report that Sprint and T. Mobile are close to agreeing on new terms for their merger. The deal between the wireless carriers got court approval earlier this month now. The companies are working to iron out final terms. That are close enough to the original deal. They won't trigger a shareholder. Vote according to people familiar with the matter. The discussions are focused on. How large a share of the combined company will be owned by T. Mobile's parent Deutsche Telekom for those fortunate enough to help the person who has always been there hero. Aarp is here to help find the care guides you need to help at AARP dot org slash caregiving brought to you by AARP. And the Ad Council Roger Stone Longtime Friend and advisor to president trump was sentenced to three years and four months in prison today in November. He was convicted on charges of lying to Congress obstruction and witness tampering. The sentencing comes after a turbulent couple of weeks where the Justice Department reduced its sentencing recommendation. And the government's trial lawyers withdrew from the case this afternoon. President trump who criticized the handling of the case Sagnol? He had no immediate plans to pardon stone but could in the future. I'm not GONNA do anything. In terms of the great powers bestowed upon a president of the United States. I want the process to play out. I think that's the best thing to do. Because I'd love to see Roger Exonerated and I'd love to see it happen because I personally think he was treated very unfairly joining me now from Washington to dig into the latest developments is Wall Street Journal. Reporter arena viswanath. Aw So arena. We just heard. President TRUMP SPEAK ABOUT ROGER. Stone's case a big question that's been looming over. It has been whether or not the president will. Pardon him as we just heard. President trump intends to let the process play out. What's your analysis of what we just heard from him this afternoon right so it sounds like he's definitely not going to be issuing any part in right now and he said he wants to see the process. Play out 'em. He seems to be very optimistic. That Roger Stone will get a new trial because he thinks that the jury forewoman was biased. she she did run for Congress as a Democrat and had posted some disparaging things about Republicans and trump on her social media feeds and he. Roger Soon has requested a new trial based on that. What's not so clear is if that request for new trial is actually going to be granted. There's a lot we still don't exactly know about about this request because it was filed under seal in secret and so we can't actually read all all of this just yet but we do know that. The Justice Department trump's own justice department in Attorney General William Bar signed off on the Justice Department's opposition to this request for a new trial so they don't seem to think that there's any legitimate reason to grant Roger Stone in new trial and we have transcripts from jury selection where this juror very clearly said that she had run for Congress as a Democrat and Roger. Stone's own lawyers asked her a little bit about this and and said do you think that would prejudice you from looking at Roger. Stone's case fairly an on its own terms and she said no and they didn't challenge her so there's a lot of moving parts on this still but I think we're waiting to see what happens with this request and then after that. How trump reacts so let's back up to just a few hours ago and stone sentencing which caps off a tumultuous few days were the Justice Department revised its sentencing recommendation. Ultimately stone did end up with a sentencing much less severe than that initial recommendation. What can you tell us about how? The judge ultimately arrived at her sentencing decision today so these are pretty complicated Sort of legal in almost math questions that go into how judges and prosecutors reach these kinds of decisions about just what Justin righteous punishment might look like so prosecutors rely on these sentencing guidelines that. Give them a number that they then proposed to the court and the court can make its own makeup its own mind and often likes to look at comparable cases and see what other judges imposed in those cases. And then maybe issue a sentence in line with those and so the guideline calculations ended up with this seven to nine year recommendation which the judge said in which a lot of people said sounded too high for someone who's sixty seven and essentially engaged in a non violent crime and is unlikely to be a repeat offender in any sense and so she looked at comparable cases. She found the one of scooter. Libby the former aide to vice president. Dick Cheney had been convicted of obstruction of justice and sentenced to thirty months and so she used that as a guide and ended up at forty. Okay so a ruined. The story certainly isn't over just quite yet. What's next so we're definitely waiting to see what Joe Jackson does with this request for a new trial and then after that it's let's see what the president does On any pardon that's Wall Street. Journal reporter Ronan Viswanathan joining us from Washington. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on Wednesday night. At least nine. People were killed an immigrant neighborhood near Frankfurt in Germany authorities. Say the gunman who was found dead at his house early. The following day had written a screed called for the extermination of entire ethnic groups. The shootings have reignited a debate over the rise of far-right extremism in the country. Chancellor Angela Merkel said in a televised address that racism was a poison that was likely behind the assault and other recent crimes in Germany. Joining me now from Berlin is Wall Street Journal reporter boy on Pinchot scheme boy on this attack bear some similarities with other recent acts of violence including the October shootings and Hala. Yes that's correct in. Germany has in the last years experienced a surge of these far-right attacks perpetrated by far-right suspects or neo. Nazis delivers to place on on Wednesday night. Holly took place in October when as far right. Activists attacked aim Synagogue in June last year a pro immigration politician was murdered in front of his home by a new not. Who's now on trial so this this has been something that's that's picked up in recent time and are now scrambling to do something about it. Authorities also say the suspected shooter in the Frankfurt attacks had racist motivations and the attack appears to have targeted the Turkish community which has a large presence in Germany. What are you hearing from authorities about that target at attack? Indeed that's what the prosecutor said in his brief statement today Essentially the the perpetrator had published on his website a lengthy rambling text which the prosecutor referred to as his sort of manifesto in which he espouses racist views he actually cold for the genocide of of entire nations and ethnic groups also within Germany. He was talking about pure blooded Germans and people who have German passports but are not actually pure Germans and they needed to get rid of according to his writing essentially. He attacked an area of his town that was populated largely by people of immigrant background. He attacked two she SHUMBA. Rs Shisha bars bars. These places where where people from Turkey or from the Middle East enjoy smoking. A waterpipe there. particularly popular among the immigrant population. All OF HIS VICTIMS SAFER. His mother were of immigrant origin. Nine people he shot where of immigrant origin. And they happen. I mean the majority of them happened to be Turkish because the Germany and especially of Germany. There's launch Turkey's population knowing that the the fact is also that this person appears to have been mentally unstable the prosecutors indicated that it's it's perfectly obvious from the document. They called his manifesto. He's talking about you. Know he's basically ranting about being surveilled by secret services by Haitiens. He's talking Hollywood celebrities. He's talking about soccer so clearly. There is very strong element of of serve mental illness that perhaps was also behind his actions. What are we hearing from the leaders of Germany and Turkey? And how might this attack and the reality of the rise of far-right extremism impact relations between the two countries? Will basically medical. The Chancellor of Germany almost immediately reacted to this tragedy with a televised press conference. She quite clearly said that the government of Germany the institution of state in herself personally will not allow Germany to be divided by those who seek to divide. It took a very strong stand in favor of of this multiethnic multicultural multifaith society that Germany is today the president of Turkey Elder gun also commented albeit briefly. He said he trusted German. Authorities to deal with the matter in all of his aspects however he's investor to Germany was much more outspoken. He identified what he called institutional racism in the country. So I I mean I think the relationship will probably not suffer for from it because the government of Germany doing everything in his power to crack down on on on these things essentially however for for the immigrant population. Dissertation is becoming more difficult of mainstream politicians from hunger. Michaels on Conservative Party rally. Today against the far-right opposition. There is a position party in Germany. Coal the alternative for Germany. Which has been campaigning for five years. Now or so on a very strongly anti-immigrant anti-islam ticket so senior officials from miracles. Party has accused Default Raido position of of sort of creating an atmosphere of tolerance. They have accused them of using this language against migrants against Muslims Stat. Makes it possible for people to radicalize themselves in the way that these shooters? These gunmen have radicalized themselves. In the past few incidents that's Wall Street Journal reporter boy on Panchev ski joining us from Berlin. Thank you so much boy on you. And that's what's news for this Thursday afternoon if you like our show please rate and review US wherever you get your podcasts. I'm angry for totally for the wall. Street Journal thanks for listening.

Germany Roger Stone President trump president Wall Street Journal Reporter Roger Congress prosecutor Justice Department Charles Schwab US Frankfurt Turkey E-trade Berlin td Ameritrade Roger Soon
Mueller indicts long-term Trump ally Roger Stone

AM Joy

1:23:02 hr | 1 year ago

Mueller indicts long-term Trump ally Roger Stone

"Yeah. I am closely accused of making false statements during testimony and committee. That is incorrect any. Error. I made in my testimony would be immaterial and without intent as I said previously. There is no circumstance whatsoever under which I will bear false witness against the president, nor will I make all lives tease. Fresher on myself. I look forward to being fully and completely vindicated. Good morning and welcome to AM joy. Well, it's kind of hard to hear that first part over those lock him up chance. But this is the spectacle that the presidency of the United States has been reduced to a defiant Roger stone, just hours after the predawn raid of his Florida home almost seeming to enjoy the circus as he becomes the sixth Trump official or advisor to be indicted or found guilty of crimes in the Muller investigation. Stone was charged with obstruction making false statements and witness tampering for allegedly lying to congress about his con. Text with WikiLeaks as they released stolen democratic emails during the campaign unclear exactly how long Roger stone could face in prison if convicted especially if mullah's holding back charges as a way to get him to spill some tea on his buddy Donald Trump doing now, a Sam Nunn. Berg, a former Trump campaign adviser who last March testified before Muller's grand jury after saying that he would defy his subpoena, and then very widely. I would say Sam did not. So I wanna get your initial impressions of just the entire thing that happened yesterday. The take down of Roger stone and his his presentation of himself after his initial hearing. Well, I think Roger everybody Rogers allies outside people expected that he was going to be indicted. What we didn't know anybody new is what it would be. I was very surprised that is not to belittle the charges completely process. They did not put them as part of a conspiracy. To defraud the United States perhaps are holding onto that for some reason with that said, this is something that Roger loves a fight like this whether you like Roger or not this is something Rogers basically built for as long as he's able to put up a legal defense. He will have witness list like enjoy you would not believe he'll have the actress going on outside, and we'll try to make a spectacle because to him. It's about convincing. A jury all you need is one juror. And so so we'll find out in terms of him flipping which I know you would want to get to. I think that that's dependent on a couple issues. The first is he is extremely loyal to the president. This was one of the major problems we had together during the twenty sixteen campaign, but it would also depend I think in the way the president to president's legal team the White House talks about him. You think he's expecting a pardon? Good question. I can't speak for him. I've never discuss. This them. Let me be very, very careful. I answer this. But I think in the back of the back of a lot of these people's minds. They are expecting part shirt. So let's talk about the actual substance of charging went through and read indictment yesterday. And let's just go through a couple of things that we're at least one of them was this question of how Roger stone was making all of these predictions. Some of them on Twitter about whose time in the barrel was going to be next about what was coming and whether or not he was interacting with the Trump campaign during and here's one element of the indictment on or about September eighteen twenty sixteen stone emailed person to who is now known, and I think has been confirmed by him to be Randy credit co an article with allegations against then candidate Clinton related to her services. Secretary of state stone stated please ask the head organization which would be WikiLeaks for any state or HR see Email from August. Ten to this thirty particularly on August, twenty twenty eleven that mentioned the subject of the article and can. From this narrative. It sounds as if stone was intending to use Wicky leaks as essentially place to mine opposition research on Hillary Clinton. Would that be accurate? I look I think Roger would have used culex I think Roger would have even gone into the embassy and met with Julian Assange been invited. But he didn't and and in terms of this. It's that he made himself. This has been my issue is one of the reasons why it was very difficult for me to go into injury. Somebody who's worked for Minoza is because he made himself such a target during this process, which he didn't have to do for a bunch of reasons that they then started looking into this. And now when you're looking into person to person we're talking about we're talking about we're talking about Randy credit co and we're talking about your own author the birther conspiracy. With whom he's now fighting another part, speaking of Jerome Corsi on or about August, second 2016 person who's Jerome Corsi, Email stone person wants dated impart word is friend. Embassy plans to more dumps one shortly after I back he said he was in Europe second in October impact plan to be very damaging would not hurt to start suggesting HRC is old her memory bad and has had a stroke. And now let's start looking at what actually happened you had info wars and the rights are jenning up these allegations. Hillary Clinton was mentally feeble physically feeble a minute about a month later. She caught a cold in the mainstream media picks it up as Washington Post headline about Clinton's health being a major issue. So these things were actually implemented. Hey, are you surprised that Jerome Corsi and Roger stone and Randy critical were doing this by Email putting creating an Email paper trail essentially of their working with WikiLeaks today? Just think it was not illegal to use. As Roger had said to me. And as I've testified in this is basically public is when I would tell Roger I would sit eilly suggest you do not do this for a bunch of reasons. Make your suggested that he didn't do not do this. I suggested that one he as he was doing it and doing these tweets and things that you're making yourself a target one. It looked like Hillary Clinton was going to win and she wasn't going to be happy with number two the FBI under Hillary Clinton, especially after what they did during the election right going to have to look into and then number three. And this goes back to the idea the part enjoy what would Donald Trump do for him right with Donald Trump appreciative? 'cause trust me. He wasn't. He did not treat Roger well. Roger he did not give Roger inauguration tickets and one just didn't have inauguration. He did end up getting them, but not directly. I don't believe right through other interview. Don't even think that Trump appreciate it. Because in the indictment. I don't think you'll appreciate it. Roger or me. No. I know general. Yeah. Could you do you have any idea? Who the senior campaign officials that were having these back and forth conversation? I don't one point their emails. The New York Times found where Steve Bannon his emailing back and forth with someone saying who's telling him you need to get in touch with Roger stone you to get in touch got oil. Yeah. Boiled, right. It's all public. That's in the back end on the talk. What you're talking about is in that, July timeframe. Yep. I don't know specifically who it is Donald Trump. Could it be Donald Trump who instructed them later paragraph? It could be, but I don't know. But yes, yes, it could because there's a paragraph in the indictment says that they were instructed by a senior campaign official to go back to says says a senior campaign, if this is even more it's like, the senior campaign official was instructed to go back, right? And they made sure to not and that's the same paragraph where they're extremely particular. In writing senior campaign official contact senior. Could be Roger stone of headed personal relationship with besides Donald Trump and self on that campaign. Well, in that timeframe things were a lot different in going through just understand what once Paul Manafort God in to the campaign, I under the auspices of who's going to help Trump during the convention, and then basically, it looked as if Roger was going to Roger, and we're going to have a we wanted right from planning to push Corey Lewandowski out Roger was more -ffiliated with the campaign from the outside was fine by him because he's not directly culpable or he doesn't have to answer to Trump. I would assume and I don't know this. They're talking about Manafort and gates. Okay. Because be the people he would know he wouldn't have and not July. I look I was asked freak. I was asked and others have been asked. How often did Donald Trump talked to Roger sewn? How often do you know, the Donald Trump? I mean did Rogers talk to Paul Manafort and Rick gates. Yeah. I am sure there in their proffer sessions both of them they were asked extensively about this. Yeah. Michael Caputo has said that during his voluntary interviewed they asked him about asserted meeting between him. So look, I think that they're talking about either. Rick gates, man Manafort there. Okay, very loose. And Roger stone is who recommended that Donald Trump higher Manafort, and I be business partners, and Tom barrack, and Tom bear also recommended Manafort, Tom barrack, recommended it to the kids in your. But Roger put than Donald Trump called Roger when he was about to make the move because it was a centrally pushing Corey to the side, right? To explain to me what's going on with this convention. Could I really lose the delegates at that point? Now, remember at that point. That's the point where Donald Trump even won the state of Louisiana the primary but got less delegates right crews. So they were worried about delegates. But was there any indication in your mind that one of the reasons that the campaign wanted Paul Manafort was his experience is very particular experience in dirty campaign tricks to be blonde because that's what Roger spo- Roger stone's self identifies himself as being expert in did the Trump campaign want Manafort because of his history of doing dirty tricks in places like Ukraine inland. I don't believe. So I believe they wanted to release for delegates for the convention became in there as the convention manager. He came in there as a convention manager. Trump is losing at that time delegates to cruise even though he had won more states. He was getting destroyed in caucus states something like eight to one in some states, even and they needed delegates and Lewin data ski was completely unprepared. Mandela got fight. I don't believe I don't know. But I can tell you that you can tell you that Ukraine wasn't the issue. It was it was losing your YoM nation. Okay. Very quickly. There's also a lot of witness intimidation. It's spelled out in the indictment. I'll give you just one of them on multiple occasions, including on or about December one to twenty seventeen stone terp told person to Randy credit, go there to go should do a Frank Pantano jelly before the house select committee on intelligence to avoid contradicting stones testimony. Frank Penton jelly as a character in the film. The godfather part two which both stone and person to head discussed. We testified before congressional committee in that testimony claims not to. Oh, critical information. He knows. We're. This kind of bullying threatening the guy's dog to take his dog this sort of mob like attitude did Roger stone ever treat you that way. When you knew that you were going to go and testify. No. He did not didn't ask you to lie. Absolutely. Not. He did not. And the other thing is he got upset. I believe because I said publicly in private through private that I along we're going to speak to him after being in the grand jury. Yep. To protect both of us. But frankly, Mawr to protect him than me because I wasn't going to obstruct Justice. Yeah. And I even an ironically, if I'm on a panel Ari Melber on Wednesday. This comes out on a Friday. And I'm telling Michael Caputo, he's being stupid. He should he's witness tampering. And he's not thought Trump. He's not the president of the United States who's going to get indicted by the Justice now that may be in the president's articles of impeachment congress. But no, you can't get away with this. Now had they called me in for instance, for things like we discussed. I would have laughed it all off and I did laugh in all of its Roger. Yeah. With rain. Critical. I don't know. How critical do you know, Randy credit go? Well, do I know him? Well, no. But do I know him? Yes. Throughout the years, and he did at vise at least according to this indictment. He tried to tell Rogers don't you probably should change testimony not lie and stone did it anyway. And that's and that's and that's what's very strange to me here. Because at the end of the day, the issue is and is why according to this. We'll see Rogers defense, but according to the Justice department. Why would Roger simply not say I was talking to Jerome courses? Right. As opposed to credit. Let's talk about that on the other side of the break. Sam stay with us and coming up our all star Russia gate panel's going to join the conversation. And that is right. Look at their fabulous right after this break. Hell were convicted of hardening. The only person I've advocated pardon for his Marcus Garvey. Hi this friends. I am a fervent supporter of the resident. Yes, Roger, okay. Marcus garvey. Yep. We get it back with me Sam Nunn Berg, and now joining us, Maya Wiley MSNBC legal analyst, Jill wine, banks, MSNBC contributor, and former assistant Watergate special prosecutor, Barbara mcquade MSNBC contributor and former US attorney Paul Butler MSNBC legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, and Malcolm Nance MSNBC contributor, and author of the plot to distort democracy. Thank you for being here, say mega panel. Sam before we let everyone in. We have to talk about this threat to Randy critical dog in the indictment. I'd say the following stone wrote an Email put us in an Email to Randy credit. Oh, you are a rat. A stool you backstab your friends run your mouth, my lawyers are dying risk you to shreds stone. Also said he would take that dog away from you referring to critical dog on or about the same. Day stone road to person to I'm so ready. Let's get it on prepared to die. What kind of person puts that in writing? When he meant isn't worried that he'll ever be caught. I think I think I if the full Email, I think Randy may have released the full Email into Michael Jones, and I was mentioned in that Email, actually. You'd have to garage you that I what I would say is it's not good, especially when is going to bring his dog and brought his dog took the granted. Right. And so imagine the grand jury is looking and somebody presents this Email and Randy sitting there with this dog. Right. Where you intimidated. My you had an exchange with Randy critical about this. Yeah. Randy credit, and I were both on Ari Melber shout together. This was at some point time after the threat, right? But he was talking about the fact that he had been threatened in offset before the show began. He was visibly. Shaken he kept talking about it over and over again about the threats and the intimidation talked about his dog he took that very seriously. I know it it may sound funny to some it was not funny to him at all. And it is if you think about mob tactics where people kill animals and leave them on your doorstep. It is it is not funny, and it was clear. It was not funny to him. And he took it very seriously. And he was visibly shaken there he is Randy critical. You see on the screen bringing his dog into bringing his dog in it. I have to say it sounds like mafia tack to the sort of language is very mob sounding right trying to do. That's what he was going for part of. I think he thinks he's I think it stick as Donald Trump operate that same way. Because he now you have Michael Cohen is also afraid because of veiled threats to his father is this the way that these guys operated when you were dealing with Roger stone, Donald Trump, well, Raj with Roger stone. I think it's always he's always citing. Godfather, he cited this to me over the years. I'm not gonna say to procreate to send that to Randy in terms of Trump. I don't think Donald Trump is mafioso. I think Donald Trump is more looked at himself as more George steinburner if anything right and George Steinbrenner or Richard Nixon. Exactly in terms of just like, but they want to hurt employees. Not literally play employee's against each other. You know, always get people off lead them off kilter things like that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. I was just say I think that it's really more mob sounding, and who would have ever thought that my organized crime prosecution days are as relevant as my Watergate days in talking about this case because that's how they talk and it isn't funny to threaten an animal. People are very I mean, I'm a dog lover. So I took that as a very serious part of this indictment is this feel to you like an organized crime sort of. I don't know the way that Robert Muller is going about it is this the way organized crime prosecution would proceed well either that it's the same as Watergate too. I mean you start and you start building up new surround the main character that you're trying to get it. Right. So it's normal prosecution. Whether it's, but I would say Rico, certainly sounds like something wreckage influence. Organisation. Yeah. It certainly sounds like a law that could be applied to this situation for sure. Yeah. Absolutely. And I was just gonna say on the end, the intimidation, we do know that stormy Daniels. Steph has also claimed that she was really threatened in terms of her daughter in this context of whether or not she would come out with her story. So it's not new and. Yeah. In terms of the allegations. Absolutely. The panel. And if anyone has questions for Sam feel free he's going to stay with us. And who's just jumping in there. Paul. So should know that this isn't new because after started talking to Robert Muller than Roger stone went on Instagram and called snaps Alema rat and a snitch. I'm wondering Sam did you take that as a threat now, I did not I told Roger it's not he shouldn't worry about me. Taking is ready to worry about the way, he's talking to other people and Randy critical certainly took it as a threat, and certainly his grand jury testimony. He said so once again, I even had an argument with Caputo on air about this. I said Roger is not the president of the United States. They may put that in articles of impeachment against the president. But they're not gonna indict him on it. Roger can get indicted on witness-tampering. Yeah. Didn't take any any of his threats seriously because I know others, and I were you surprised that and Sam brought this up earlier were you surprised that among the charges against Roger stone? That was not included with something like conspiracy against the United States that kind of. Charge because the substance of the indictment is directly about collusion with WikiLeaks. Not surprised because this is act too. So I think act one was the indictment of twelve Russian intelligence officers for trying to throw the election to Donald Trump act to now is the information. That's important is hell, open and receptive. The Trump campaign organization was to receive the criminal matters from Russia, stolen, emails and hell Roger stone lie to congress about Trump's campaign organizations are close relationship where receptiveness so I think act three joy will be the American co-conspirators who have reasonable leave our people at the very highest level of the Trump campaign. Yeah, Bob McClain. I believe has a question barbeque, go ahead. You know, one of the things I'm curious about Sam, do, you know, remember in July of twenty sixteen when President Trump made this promise that on Monday, you're going to hear some big dirt on Hillary Clinton. And then it didn't happen. Do you know number one what he was talking about a number two? Why he didn't follow through? I don't know number. I number one. I don't know seems to me that in light of the timing with the Trump Tower Moscow meeting. I'm sure Robert Muller does know in terms of number two. I have heard from others that worked at the campaign at that time that there were their explanation is that we were just disorganized. And eventually we spoke about Hillary Clinton later in the week. No, that's not something that I wasn't with the campaign. Then in fact, I think I was being sued at that point. So. Let me get Malcolm, Malcolm Nansen here because the Wiki leaks part of it. What you've heard from defenders of Donald Trump is that there's nothing wrong with it. Because they were just minding op research like any other campaign would the problem, of course, is what we was doing a new they were partnering with filtered comment, or if you have a question for Sam fil free to do that as well. Well, my comment is quite simple. There's that WikiLeaks has already been determined by US intelligence, including Donald Trump's former director of CI now secretary of state palm peyot to be a non-state hostile intelligence agency. And further to what Paul was saying a little bit ago. I think the next tier is not going to be the American co conspirators, I think it's going to be Julian Assange and the WikiLeaks organization so that they can now pressure all of the other people who had had communications with them by showing that they have a link with an actual now indicted agency the way that they did with the Russian personnel for the most part. I, you know, I find this fascinating. Because Roger stone to me is just playing this character role where he thinks he is combat that he's a mafioso and he is about to find out. What a ton of bricks really really feels like. Yeah. I we're gonna come out when we come back. I do wanna talk the look east. Aspect of this as well. Much more. Sam my Panama, we come back. Rogers relationship with Trump has been so interconnected that it's hard to define what's Roger? And what's Dong? It'll be clearly a Trump presidency. I think it's influenced by stole philosophy Rogers relationship with Trump. They both see the world in a very similar way. If Trump is elected president, I think Raj will see one more very significant impact. He's had world history. Back with me as we discussed the indictment of longtime. Trump competent, Roger stone. We're talking about the Julian Assange sort of factor in all of this in my no you had a question for Sam Sam. So you've said in the past many times, you talked to Roger stone fifteen times a day for. Yeah. Roger stone has said multiple times that he talked to Trump regularly and constantly and you've had this Email exchange with Roger where it's very clear in this period where he's trying to get emails. August fourth Email twenty sixteen where he saying. Yes. Hillary Clinton's up by fifteen points. But that won't last. What knowledge did you have of how many conversations he was having directly with Donald Trump during this time? I don't want to go specifically into it. Because of my grand jury testimony in the case for the United States. But what I would in and of itself tells me something what I would what I would say is they talked that they did talk frequently, but it was less frequent towards the end of the campaign because because because of the way the campaign was operated Manafort was no longer there and Bannon Kellyanne allies Lindau's gate, but he I had some conversations in October. But that look that's up for Roger insects week of August where they haven't conversations. I would I would think so and I would think so, but Roger stone have been in a position to know. Says he was talking to Donald Trump and senior levels of the campaign were advised at a certain point there's been an attack on the Democratic National Committee. Wiki leaks is has something to do with it. They have known I think Assange had gone publicly in June, right? And said that he had these emails what I would say is in my Senate Intel as opposed to Muller special counsel's office Senate Intel was very very they asked me numerous times about the Clinton health issue. The Clinton issue all I would say is that just so the audience? This was an issue and conservative spheres conservative media since his earliest twenty thirteen she had an issue. There was something that Bill the Blasi, but Infowars wrong coursing company. Excel A-Rated that directly after WikiLeaks. I would also tell you. I would also tell you that that Roger and I had conversations with then. Mr. Trump in even mid twenty fourteen about using her health. So just join with that said, it doesn't mean that this was something that was Ed Klein of all people wrote about it. So this is something the Clintons were aware aware of preparing for their campaign. You can ask fully Paul Butler, head joy. So I think sale might be making some news here. He that around August fourth this Email that Roger stone was in contact with then candidate Donald Trump because Sam got another Email on August fourth from Roger sto. Roger stone's said I dine with Julian Assange last night. And now Roger stone says that was just a joke sale. Did you take that as a joke? I didn't remember that Email. So that Email is only presented to me in the grand jury not during my voluntary. What I remembered is I had a conversation with Roger not spoken to him. And I said, so where have you been and it was a Friday afternoon or so and Roger said to me. I was with Julian Assange as I've said Roger told me that they were going to release information about the Clinton foundation, my initial my niche mall. Does she have any new information about Benghazi, and I would point to the fact that Assange release anything related to either one? So that so did I believe him initially when he told me, I didn't have any reason not to believe him. But when it didn't pan out, and Roger started making these public statements. I thought that this was just another, you know. Dangerous but publicity type sinking stunt by Roger to stay relevant within the campaign and within the public sphere of. All right. Jill wine, banks Sam I'd like to ask you because I think people would like to know the evidence now gathered and presented in this indictment is so strong against Rogers. And he's still saying I'm not gonna plead guilty. I am going to stand firm when is someone going to get to him to make him realize that he is going to be convicted the evidence is just to clear he can't get away with this. I think that Roger and Donald Trump or very similar, and this whole idea that people tell me that Donald Trump will fly off in a helicopter and wave goodbye and sometime next summer of twenty twenty and everything will be okay. And I'll take a deal. I don't believe it. I think that they will find things. Both towards the end Rogers, the kind of person where he would think do year in jail, and I come on and give speeches. Barbara mcquade. Okay. Just you know, this is for what he's done are up to twenty years here in jail. I mean, he I think he might have on Asian. Yeah. Barbara mcquade jumping a follow up to jill's question has Roger stone ever said anything to you about how he would end -ticipant that if he ever got charged. He could count on President Trump to give them a pardon. He is not the. I noticed even yesterday when registering was giving his comments from the courthouse steps with someone has to question that he couldn't quite hear. He said, pardon me. Banning somehow shrouded request to the president one of my issues with Roger was is Roger has a loyalty and affinity, and I'll say to Donald that used to have. But I don't have any more after the way I was treated, but they have a longer relationship. And I think that Roger looks as himself now as if he's helping as he's helping the president by fighting this charge and not being one of those people on the screen that may be indicted, but has not been found guilty. That's the way Roger probably sees that he's part of helping save the Trump presidency. Donald Trump is is a stunningly disloyal person. I mean, there's to tell me, right. I mean, you've said it yourself. Okay. So there's a great piece of the Iraqi people go back to two thousand eight article by Jeffrey Toobin, dirty trickster in which Donald Trump is insulting. Roger stone will every quote from Donald Trump about Roger stone's an insult of stone. What why does Roger? Tone exhibit such loyalty towards somebody who doesn't seem to even really loyal to him Rogers, given it back to Trump someways. I don't go into the past. Okay. Okay. So this is not I would just say that I would just say that while Roger may not publicly disparage Trump, he has gone back at him in the in the past in the past a very long complicated relationship is what let me play the moment in July of twenty sixteen to look like a flashback to you, Malcolm when Donald Trump announced essentially his who should with with WikiLeaks to get on Hillary. But it would be interesting to see I will tell you this Russia if you're listening. I hope you're able to find the thirty thousand emails that are missing I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. Let's say that happens that'll be next there. An innocent explanation for why campaign that seemed to be in very close touch with WikiLeaks. And mining information would make that kind of statement if they were unaware of the origin of the of the bad, hacked information. Absolutely not and what you are seeing in that video, and we discussed that on that very day quite extensively. You're looking at conspiracy in plain sight, Donald Trump had already had conversations about that. Otherwise wouldn't have popped into his head and then within hours Russian intelligence was trying to hack Hillary Clinton's emails, which they successfully did not do they got around to other people but not to her. But this brings a question that I have for Sam in the first week of October twenty sixteen President Obama made a nationally televised address along with the director of national security, and the director of national intelligence and had said to the nation that the United States was attacked. And that the information that was stolen by Russia was being used in a disinflation warfare campaign intended to impact the election anytime, did you or Roger stone ever have pause to think? Hey, wait. A minute. We may be part of an operation, which is being carried out by a foreign government. Like, the president and the national intelligence community are asserting or was it just you're loyalty to Donald Trump at that time superseded any do first off I had nothing to do with it. I was sued July. They have emails. I did not say very nice things about Donald Trump up till around the day before up up till around the second debater. So I was fine with him winning the election by enough. So one nothing to do with it. I Ted Cruz number two. I I told Roger one of the reasons ice whole warranty about this was because he was making himself a target. But number three, I would also just say Roger conspired against himself because he did not he wanted. He would have I think, but he did it. We're out of time. But I have to ask you this question. One of our viewers is actually asking this question as well. If you if you knew these to be bad people or. People who were just loyal people who don't seem at this point to have much regard for why did you spend so much time working with them? Because that wasn't the way it was when I worked for for Trump from two thousand eleven to mid twenty fifteen this all started for me. Once I made the decision to not be campaign manager. I wouldn't be a good campaign manager. It's not what I do. I'm not an operations guy and don't race for years. Why Roger Roger, and I were very close at that point during I I did a lot of work with Roger. And I was I was dated a handling, let's say ROY Trump account. I would look at him as like the senior partner, and it'd be the day-to-day associates say something like that. So they didn't see. It wasn't like it wasn't like the way it is now. But I mean, we have a special counsel Sam Nunn virg-. Thank you very much. I appreciate you sitting through with all of this. Jill wine, banks. Thank you very much. My Barbara Paul Malcolm begin in the next hour. Thank you very much. Appreciate and coming up an epic fail for the so-called dealmaker Jeep, I'll talk to somebody who may know all too. Well, why Trump couldn't deliver? I disturbing that these special counsel's office realistic, especially prior to informative by attorneys. I would be charged today. Friday was not a good day for Donald Trump, not only with his longtime conciliaory Roger stone arrested, but Trump also suffered a massive humiliating defeat. At the hands of house speaker Nancy Pelosi who backed into a corner and got him to end his government shutdown and the misery that he'd inflicted on millions of Americans without a penny for his vanity Boorda wall. So it's the twenty four hours like that. And you might left wondering, well, whatever happened to the art of the deal. We'll joining me now is Tony Schwartz the co author of Trump the art of the deal. All right. So Tony let I want to go through a couple of quotes from the book that you wrote, and here's one that seems particularly relevant quote. I never get too attached to one deal or one approach for starters. I keep a lot of balls in the air because most deals fall out. No matter how promising they seem at first. I and this was under a section called maximize your options, why do you suppose Donald Trump didn't follow that advice when it came to pretend walnut watcher stone made up? Well, what we now know is that? He's a terrible negotiator. And actually always has been if you've you're back to the art of the deal, which was a title. I came up with it came into my head in a moment. I've lived to regret thirty years ago. It's a title that I came up with as a marketing message, not as actual expression of reality. And if I was looking through the art of the deal this morning and realized that most of the deals in the art of the deal were failed deals there were three casinos that failed. There was this attempt to get rid of tenants on one hundred central park south that fail. There was the United States football league that failed. This man has been a failure for his entire career. He he earned. I'm sorry. He didn't earn. He he inherited four hundred million dollars. He inherited for thank you so much he inherited four hundred million dollars. And compared to almost any other way could have been invested did nothing with it. Yeah. And I guess the thing is that it was such an effective presentation that Americans by and large. No, Donald Trump becomes the he got the apprentice. Because of that presentation of who people thought he was before you wrote the book. Did you have doubts about his acumen as a businessman, or did you sort of realize it after the thing was a success that oh my God? This was all untrue. I'm gonna tell you honestly, I woke up this morning. And I started thinking about this and I- I dissolved in tears. Because I the the notion that I made this choice to do this still feels to me unbearable, and the tears I think we're almost tears of joy. That the truth. Could finally come out. So yes, I totally new at that story. I was just referring to about one hundred central park south. I wrote that for New York magazine before I met him. It was called the Cold War on one hundred central park south, and it was about Trump's uttering complete failure at trying to harass tenants out of a building. I had an experience with them the cover picture was of him looking like a thug. He loved it. He put it up on his wall. You know, I knew exactly who he was. So I that's why I have been in absolution for a very very long time. I'm gonna read another quote, Ed about truthful hyperbole, Donald Trump. This is due writing for Donald Trump. I played at people's fantasies. People may not always think big themselves, but they can still get very excited by those who do that's why a little hyperbole. Never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It's an innocent form of exaggeration and very effective production. I think that that's actually funded promotions promotion, I think that's fundamentally true. I wanna think big it's why Donald Trump as an idea for a lot of voters was like this will make our country big. But I think when it comes to governing country making a promise like stringing, a medieval wall across the southern border. That's just literally unfeasible and somebody who's a builder ought to know, it's not visible. It's almost dangerous because his supporters are now married to this idea. How do you break people? Of a big idea. Once even the person purveying understand that it is not possible. Could he just tell them is not possible? You know, I don't think you can break the core of the base. I watched Ann Coulter on Bill Maher last night. And she represents the base. This is a this is a nightmare. I mean, people who believe the most repugnant kind of ideas. So I don't think it's about that. I think what it's about is really recognizing through this process. What you can learn from it and one of the things you can learn is that the people have power. So you watch the air flight controllers call in sick yesterday and of shutdown. Yeah. This cannot ever happen again joy so long as a reasonable percentage of those flight controllers, those F B I agents or those IRS workers simply decide we're sick. And. Soon as they say that America shuts down. So Trump doesn't have to isn't going to go up against the Democrats to try to keep the government. I mean to avoid closing down the government. Yeah. Or to make the government closed down. He's going to go up against the people, and he will lose. Yeah. And another thing I think we've learned is that Donald Trump doesn't do well against strong women who push back. I'm gonna just bury town by speaker Nancy Pelosi who even the media doesn't seem to have caught up with her very clear answer on the wall. Take a listen. Not in clear on. It's been really what what is Donald Trump sort of? How does he deal with strong women? Apparently, he's crumbles in front of them. Well, first of all he has had strong women work for him. So that's an interesting fact about him Donald Trump will find a way to use anyone if it's in the service of his goals, see work for him. She doesn't work for him. And she is what she has. That is. So rare is a combination of power and elegance another words, she can be circumspect and respectful in exercising that power. And that's what he doesn't understand. Yeah. If somebody comes slashing back at him. Trump can always out slash if someone is graceful. That's a word that doesn't exist in his vocabulary. Very interesting. Tony short. Thank you for coming today. And also thank you for bringing a superstar with let's take a look at who you brought that's my little grandson Jona. Hey Jona, and he's here to support me. I will he is doing an excellent job. I think he is a star. I proclaim Jona a star high Jona gonna talk to the people. No, I don't but you're adorable. Thank you for coming to them for. Had to use the services here. Be because I got to the point that I was only eating once a day to stretch out what I had and. There's some there people here, and they help may help me once I get behind room do crying mass out. And I'm like I promised him that we will never be homeless. Again. We would not want for nothing that we would not need for nothing could happen to your family. If the shutdown continues. Welcome back to am joy thirty five days. That's how long the longest government shutdown in US history. Lasted before the president who said he'd be proud to shut the government down finally gave in and allowed it to end supposedly temporarily, but those thirty five days have come at a huge cost for the hundreds of thousands of federal workers impacted not to mention the millions of federal contractors who will never be made whole for thirty five days government workers like the ones that you just heard didn't know when they would get their next paycheck putting their homes and their credit in jeopardy. Thirty five days, we're hardworking Americans with good. Honorable jobs were forced to line up at food banks just to put food on the table thirty five days in which important government functions. Like food safety inspections were at risk the government. Shut down even the governor down even temporarily shut down operations at a major New York airport on Friday and caused long lines and long delays at airports across the country as unpaid air traffic, controllers stopped showing up for work, maybe because they could no longer afford to put gas in their cars. If agents warned about the impact the shutdown would have on efforts to stop terrorism and members of the coast guard were forced to rely on charity. It's worth noting that the FBI agents who arrested Roger stone before dawn yesterday. We're also unpaid federal workers for thirty five days. Donald Trump put the country safety, and it Konami and his own citizens income security at risk and for what for vanity project. The now indicted Roger stone made up during the campaign. Donald Trump's speechwriters had him promise. Mexico would pay for Donald Trump shut the. Government down for thirty five days. And the one thing he said that is true. Is that he owns it. I am proud to shut down the government for border security. So I will take the mantle I will be the one to shut it down. I'm not gonna blame you for. Joining me now is in a whole president and founder of touro media group. Tara Dow del business and political marketing consultant, Barbara wres-, former executive vice president at the Trump organization and author of a loan on the sixty eighth floor and David k Johnston, founder of DC report dot org, and author of it's even worse than you think. And certainly the shutdown was even worse than anybody thought. It would be involved. I wanna come to this first because a couple of this table know, Donald Trump, personally, the pain that Donald Trump 'cause we were just talking to Tony Schwartz in the last hour, and he talked about the tactic that Trump would sometimes use to empty a building that he wanted to develop of a simply allowing misery to take hold in the building and making the building unlivable. So the tenants would essentially take themselves out of the building victim sounds. Does it surprise you? Donald Trump would use that same kind of tactic on the whole country just to get a wall that he must know he cannot get. I don't think who's perception was that it was using it on the country as much as he thought it was using it on the house of the Democrats in the house representatives. And so, you know, yes, he will do anything to win. There's no question about that. And and he lost which is kind of cool. No when he's lost is he aware when he has lost. I came must know that he lost this. I mean, he will never ever admit it. And maybe maybe he doesn't struggles admitting to himself. But he I think he is that he wants to go to some of the numbers number of paychecks. Most affected have missed two to twenty five thousand four hundred nineteen civilian employees were filing initial unemployment claims during a one week period. Eight point seven billion dollars the amount that can be taken out of the economy if that shutdown had actually gone to the end of the month and fifty three percent, which is the percentage of people who blame Donald Trump for the shutdown. Tara, I'm gonna ask you the same question having known Donald Trump does any of that impact him at all. Or or was this just I'm going to win this particular issue? And it doesn't matter who's hurting. He doesn't it doesn't matter to him who's hurting. I mean. We know that he ripped off small business owners ripped off contractors continues to do so at the property as well, by the way, and who knows what other properties. So no, I don't think any of that matter to him. But who did it matter to it matter to some of those senators in swing states who are up for re election in twenty twenty. That's what matter too. That's why you had six them defect and others of them putting pressure on him as well. You had Republican donors putting pressure on Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump as well. And remember in the twenty thirteen shut down. It was Republican donors that got mad at their own party and put pressure during that time pre pre Trump. Yeah. So I think that's that was the shutdown was shut down. Ted Cruz initiate it. Yes. Yeah. That one of the things that did come out of this is that Donald Trump's own team in some cases, own family reveal themselves, and these are things that people weren't surprised by probably their attitudes. But I just want to play a little bit of the way that they spoke about the federal workers who were going through hell shut down and take a listen. Mister secretary their reports that there are some federal workers who are going to homeless shelters to get food. Nobody really quite understand why tens of the workers who are coming to work and not getting paid. What would you say to them? Listen, this is it's not fair to you. And we all get that. But this is so much bigger than any one person. It is a little bit of pain, but it's going to be for the future of our country future of government workers. We're gonna take vacation days say between Christmas and news, and then we have shutdown and so they can't go to work. And so then they have the -cation, but they don't have to use their vacation days. And then they come back, and then they get back paid there in some sense. They're better off soon as this thing goes, switch turned on the payments will be made we will go back to normal. This is just a glitch glitch volunteers. Larry Trump saying a little bit of pain. These spoken like people who've never ever ever missed a meal who've never ever struggled extraordinary that they would say things out loud. So I wanna take a moment and actually tell you what I said to my students at depaul university in Chicago who are in this. They're all all the Knicks. And no they were not like their family did not work for the federal government their families in the sense of the other side of the story. What is this all about? This is about a wall that is to keep people like me, and my students and their families out is a wall that is racist. Okay. So that's why there's all of this human suffering. So what I say to my students. I'd say look we're living through a really dark period, you're leaving through a really dark period that would be talked about four centuries your surviving it but understand that there's a context here. Right. So they the Chinese exclusion act, there wasn't a wall. But there was a Chinese exclusion act. Let's not forget how many Jewish refugees were refused entry when they were escaping Hitler. And this country was like, well, no, we can't have them. So this is part of. The long continuum, and sadly, those people who were not getting paid had this relationship now with something that is tied to racism and for me. It's like the long term impact on my students. Is there mental? You know, how do you feel about the fact that you wake up every day knowing this is all happening because they're trying to keep you out. The other side of Choi is that the the good news, right? Is that this might students are all highly politicized. Yeah. Much more politicized than they would have been two years ago. I know it and so it's like well, thank you. And you know, it's interesting on that very point David Kay because. You know, a lot of the kind of conceit has been that this is Stephen Miller acting through Donald Trump, but he is so determined and Stephen Miller just one of the many aids dump Trump brought in who have this this euphemistic alt-right perception of the world where nonwhite immigrants to be locked out or even deported or had their even their naturalized citizenship taken away they need to be cleansed out because there's too many of them relative to the population. But Donald Trump is seems to be the most enthusiastic of all the policies that were fed to him by Roger stone, and others business the one that he seems to be the most married to are. We putting too much of it on a strategy that came from stone or that's coming through Stephen Miller and missing the fact that this is what Donald Trump is passionate about. Well, he's passionate about it because he was able to rally audiences to it. And he thought he could do something about it. Although he utterly failed at that. And should if he wanted a wall built taking care of it during the previous two years. But you know, we haven't White House full of stone cold racists, led by a man who is utterly heartless and doesn't care about you. Absolutely bizarre. The Donald Trump in his inaugural address promise that he would focus on the forgotten, man. Just put that up against what's happened in the last thirty five days and ask yourself just who got forgotten here. So he the applause he got he's now going to take a lot of heat from the right about this and Donald will come up sometime in the next ninety days if not less with a new story to explain away. What's happened? He's already done that I'm Barbara. He's now claiming that he's going to declare national emergency, which is previously been cleared for wars terrorist attack Cuban missile crisis. He's going to use that power to get his wall made here here is. So let me be very clear. We really have no choice, but to build a powerful wall or steel barrier. If we don't get a fair deal from congress. The government will either shut down on February fifteenth again or I will use the powers afforded to me under the laws and the constitution of the United States. To address this emergency personnel. Nobody believes even Mitch McConnell as sort of obsequious as he is to Donald Trump is gonna let them shut the government down again. But on David national emergency. You worked in the building side of the Trump organization. Does he even understand that logistically you cannot build such thing because he's promising something that you've got to know as a professional in this industry isn't even possible. Everything's possible. But the question is why he asking for five point seven million when this thing is going to cost fifty billion when it's going to cost fifty billion dollars. That's what bothers me. And why would anyone ever allocate money for a project that you don't know what it is this notice on says, no idea of what's biz real grand river that you cannot build a wall across. Well. Yeah. I mean, there are physical topology makes something. Absolutely will make difficult, but it's not the idea that it's absurd in that. It can't be built. I mean, you know, so you can't build it down to the core of the of the people can't get underneath it either. But it was absurd about it is that we don't know what we want to build how much it's going to cost and the idea that this is a national emergency money. That's I think that's so offensive to a lot of people that the idea that anyone from Latin America Central America would want to come here and flee here for Silom is offensive to not just on Trump to his supporters. Right. So so so again, the wall is 'cause we it's been said on this network on other networks, perhaps maybe another as it needs to be repeated, which is there is not a crisis of people coming across on this border. That's not the crisis is that people are seeking refuge but undocumented immigrants seeking and coming in looking for work that is not happening the Mexican economy. I was just there rocking my Mexican airings it. Yeah. They are. They are because. What Mexico an art and our economy in Mexico. Booby, right? So people are not actually leaving Mexico coming and look for work here. Central Americans are seeking refuge, and they are desperate. And what this wall really is about is not just the wall. But it saying, okay. So now limit all of the refugees that can come into the United States impacted forever. And you use that word cleansing it's very difficult to here. But the fact is is that that's the way people feel and to be true to be honest. I was reporting the story of the building of the wall in two thousand and seven joy, George W Bush wanted to build a wall segments of it were build Boeing corporation got twenty eight billion dollars to build a cyber wall. A wall get us. So we had twenty eight billion dollars where. Came built a model of floor of the house trying to make it out. I mean, just in closing the Nancy Pelosi factor. Right. She completely schooled him here. How do you think makes someone like Donald Trump feel they're very very small? First of all, the only thing may steal the Donald Trump. Got was Nancy Pelosi. That's fine. That's that's what's made a steal. But Trump clearly miscalculated I said on this show before and I'm going to repeat it Trump's around himself with the people and a lot of those. Yes, people are amateurs mercenaries, amateur mercenaries and criminals, and so when you have those people advising you they don't understand how congress works. They don't understand how Nancy Pelosi works. They miscalculated. They allowed him to believe that she was going to fold Nancy Pelosi was never going to fold and Trump learned that first hand he's been defeated Nancy Pelosi has emerged from this stronger. And I think that right now he's going to be looking for ways to lash out. And looking for things to do. But I think he realizes that. He ran up against as we say the wrong one. It's interesting David that sounds like your book. The people he's dealt with. And then what he's dealing with. Now, Donald surrounds himself with people who will tell him what he wants to hear not what he needs to hear. It has to be simple because he's not that smart. He's terrible negotiator. I've had integrated with many times over the last thirty one years and Nancy Pelosi is someone who is a general politics chinos strategy and tactics she knows how to keep her troops in line. And hold firm, and she isn't concerned by the immediate response of Fox News. As Donald is, which is what led us into this whole thing. Rupert Murdoch's Fox news. I will say somebody told me this morning. I think it's very smart thing to say that those those gadflies on the right who really quickly told him what to do till the government down. This is like their peak of power right now if they cannot punish him or make him pay for not getting them a wall where does their Power cO? So they're probably thinking about that as well. Tara doubt Barbara risk. David johnson. Thank you very much coming up that security clearance. Jerry waited over a you to get well, it may not shock you to hear this. But it turns out top level. Security officials never wanted him to have it at all. My name is Jared Kushner, I'm senior adviser to president Donald J Trump. Let me be very clear I did not collude with Russia, nor do I know of anyone else in the campaign who did so. I had no improper contacts. Donald Trump's son-in-law had so many foreign entanglements to career security specialists at the White House recommended that he not receive a top security clearance, citing concerns about potential foreign influence on Kushner, that's according to sources familiar with the matter. Ultimately, the specialists concerns were overruled by a Trump appointee. Who also overruled concerns about at least thirty thirty three o other. Trump officials and unprecedented. Number to me now is my widely legal MSNBC, Barbara mcquade. Former US attorney and Malcolm Nance, author of the plot to destroy America. My ever heard of anything like this. There are four levels of security clearances. There's confidential secret top secret and sensitive, the CIA has to grant you that really top top top one, and they refuse to give that to Jared Kushner, but this person who was situated in a position to essentially bring in people Carl Kline just overruled and over and over and got him a never heard of anything like this. I've never heard of. Of anything like this. You know as counsel to the mayor of New York City, the mayor actually has to request some form of security clearance, just to have certain conversations with with Washington. You know, the idea that folks that are responsible for the national security experts would be so ignored in a context where Jared Kushner who remember has no experience in foreign affairs. Right. What he does have is a significant number of business ties, which is where you have foreign governments like China like Mexico like United Arab Emirates trying to figure out how to use and manipulate those financial interests right for their own. Even if Jared Kushner has all the best intentions, you would not expect to see that. But thirty people means you're really ignoring fundamentally you're experts in terms of how we protect the country, and these are non political experts in this gentleman was quite political car- client. Let me play for you, Malcolm. Bradley moss, and Rachel Maddow, did an excellent opening block about this. Very alarming fact about what Jared Kushner was able to get and here he is he's a national security attorney who specializes in litigation related to national security and federal employment and security law. And here he is talking about how impressive this what's. I'll say this in twelve years of representing people across the intelligence community defense. Contractors government, personnel, military personnel. I've never seen this. This is what we always feared. This is what we were worried was going to happen. When the president broke with the custom of not having not bringing his kids in upbringing family. This is what we thought it was going to happen the broad Jared Kushner, and they brought vodka Trump in. There were obvious clearly identifiable foreign influence concerns. Foreign personal financial ties extensive foreign context extensive foreign travel that the two adjudicators said no makes complete sense to me. You know, Malcolm has we put up a couple of the headlines that just happened. While Donald Trump was president about Jared Kushner, discussed secret channel to talk to the Russians Jared Kushner, China's Trump card overseas contacts raise concern, it's foreign visuals. Seek leverage the wooing of Jared Kushner had the Saudis got into the White House as a national security professional yourself tease out a little bit more what Bradley Mazda. Say what is the what is the fear in the intelligence community of somebody getting a security clearance that they really ought not have. I'll tell you. I held a top secret SEI security clearance with special access programs, Jared Kushner, would have many many higher levels access of that. If he is working in the office of the president, the security concern is quite simple, and I have never heard of a person ever editing their actual SF eighty six security application form like Jared Kushner dig with believe over one hundred modifications to it that's because anyone who modified their clearance of application once had their clearance pulled and they were never given access. Also, Jared Kushner one of the concerns that the FBI had was at at the point where they were going to adjudicate his process they had come up with the term unclear -able. I had never heard of this term unclear -able that means that there is something in your background. Whether it's usually financial and your context with foreign powers that means that. You are national security potential national security threat to the United States. This is why the CIA would not allow Jared Kushner access to their programs because that means that he would either they suspected he would either give away. Top secret information sell top secret information or would compromise their intelligence operations, clearly whoever the individual was that maybes determinations, not just for Kushner. But for thirty other individuals was hyper partisan and to tell you to be quite honest. Every one of those people need to have their clearance polled immediately to make sure that none of them are spies or or selling this information. That is terrifying. Barbara mcquade. If you're Robert Muller, are you thinking about calling in Carl Kline and asking him about this given that what's being investigated? According to the New York Times is whether the president of the United States might be an agent of a foreign power. I think so and not just merely to look at whether Jared Kushner made false statements on his clearance forms background forms or are at risk of some sort of security concern, but whether this is all part of the same conspiracy. We wanted people to have access to this information. So that it could be shared with Russia as all as part of this conspiracy that in exchange for assisting the president and becoming elected there were certain quid pro quos that they would get an exchange one of which may have been the sharing of classified information. So I think it absolutely fits within the scope of that investigation. And so why Carl Klein is it's a legitimate question to ask him. Why did you overrule the opinions of career intelligence professionals thirty times in this administration? I think that's a fair question. Good as well anywhere cybersecurity professional at eleven scaring carrying, but you're actually terrified me right now, Malcolm Nance, sharing information or selling information sort of. Worst case scenario, we know Jared Sada backchannel with Russia. There's headlines about how he would WhatsApp with M B S with the Saudi Crown prince this is actually quite alarming. It is an you know, there's an there's an additional point that I'm going to terrify you with right now, the counterintelligence professionals who were making these determinations that people shouldn't have it are now going to or have probably thought about this individual Mr. Klein to determine was he allowing a network to set up within the White House was he himself either influenced by hostile foreign power or influenced by political preference within the White House, and allowing these unclear -able individuals to come in there to set up like I said a network where they could be compromising the national security United States. If I was in counterintelligence at the FBI indefinitely at the I'd be pulling my hair out right now because we all know Jared Kushner, as you mentioned in the previous segment, ask the foreign power to us foreign cryptographic communication systems. So he could speak behind the back of the United States government. The you know, what house needs to rip this thing apart because I think that. What we're gonna find this individuals for their own personal benefit may have been using this information that they were given access to that. They should never have ever seen before we go out. Just want to mention that we NBC did try to reach out to call climbed to get comment. We were unable to get comment. This is scary. Thank you my and Barbara, you guys are all going to be sticking around and coming up Donald Trump and his longtime completely area engaging in something that could land them in even more trouble. And we'll talk about that next. It's about your attacking his father in law. Mr. Trump, Mr. Giuliani, you attack his father in law in a lewd to him being a criminal because he's from the Ukraine. This is classic mob technique to send a signal to the individual who Mr. Trump has called a rat for telling the truth after during days of criticism endless tweet and verbal attacks. Donald Trump is TV lawyer Rudy Giuliani. Michael Cohen to postpone his testimony before the house oversight committee to take place next early next month, citing ongoing threats against family. But now looks like Cohen may not have a choice since the Senate intelligence committee has subpoenaed him to testify and his lawyer Lanny Davis, and you just saw Cohen will comply MSNBC legal analyst, Maya Wiley, former US attorney, Barbara mcquade MSNBC legal analyst Paul Butler and former special agent Douglas Cologne, and Doug, I'm gonna go with you. I you are. Special agent in you specialize in labor racketeering, when you hear stuff like what I'm just gonna play right now to tell me if it sounds familiar to the kind of cases that you've dealt with take a listen. He should give information maybe on his father in law because that's the one that people wanna look at because where that money that's the money in the family. And I guess he didn't wanna talk about his father tried to get his sentence. Reduced father. Whereas Ukrainian his father had has millions and millions. Of course, it's not I'm telling you it comes from the Ukraine. The reason that's important is he may have ties to something called organized crime Douglas making these guys. You you have implied threats, and you have the wreck threats in this case, you have the implied threat where you know, the old put your hand on the shoulder said, hey, don't worry about this that you never you know, what how your granddaughter doing? So she's still take piano lessons over on twenty third street and Park Avenue. She has a whole life ahead of her. That's the implied threat to the family. If you think about it. If you go back to stormy Daniels when Trump had Michael Cohen asks his fixer his job was to make sure he got someone to take care of the problems that Trump encounter. So if you go back to the time when she was in a parking lot in some of the cost her if in fact that was from Michael Cohen, he will be the person who actually sent someone to intimidate her. Now that cone is now outside of the Luke he's a log in the in the cocoon of the Trump. Circle. Now, he knows how people move. So he now thinks it may be coming out to his family saying threat goals towards your father in law who then goes down to your wife goes down to your children. So I think it's the same line threats and to your very point here is Lanny Davis Cohen's lawyer talking about just that. The family of Michael Kohn has been called out by Donald Trump once again, and he ducks or allies about what he knows he's done which is to attack a fodder in law and a wife as a way of getting to Mr. Cohen and that is called witness tampering. Obstruction of Justice Butler, if Iran as Douglas pointed out Cohen used to be the guy who delivered the implied threats now he is on the receiving end. Does that in a sense make him a better arbiter of what it is? He's up against when it comes to Donald Trump. Does it this case it worked because after these threats from Trump and Guiliani then Cohen says he's not going to testify. Ultimately, it's not as choice. He could be required to give testimony to congress. But the other irony is with Rudy Giuliani who made his name as a prosecutor going after mob families, and now he's acting like the same kind of thugs who sent to prison, you know, joy if around the way do set to a witness yeoman, see your father in law that round that way do would be in handcuffs. It's shouldn't be any different when the president of the United States. Does it? In fact, it should be worse. Because this is the most powerful man in the world, he has the ability. He the Justice department reports to help. So he has the ability to carry out these threats even if he can't be died. It at minimum use of office, which is ground for. Impeachment. You can't just go back because we're gonna talk about Trump again. But I do want to go back to the point the Paul made about Rudy Giuliani. Barbara mcquade Ridgely had it was a US attorney the job you used to do as well when you hear him engaging in these kinds of tactics. I mean, a lot of people have expressed shock about what has happened to him since he was mayor of New York City. But what do you make of it? When you hear an attorney lawyer former prosecutor engaging in this kind of threatening behavior to I think, it's an absolute disgrace. And I think it also I agree that it does amount to witness tampering. I think that some people are maybe faked out by the fact that this is so open Natori issue ordinarily when you have these kinds of threats and intimidating lines. They come privately or behind closed doors. So they can't be detected. But here because they're on Twitter. I think it gives sort of the guys that they can't possibly be criminal because who would commit a crime in broad daylight. But I will tell you that when I was used attorney we prosecuted street gangs for three. They made on social media about people who were rats and weak links in an effort to intimidate them. So all the statute requires is to knowingly intimidate to influence or prevent someone's testimony. So the fact that Rudy Giuliani and President Trump are saying this out publicly does not in any way minimize the criminality of it and my doing it in plain sight. I mean, everyone's notice, and here's some Democrats who were talking about this intimidation. And what effect it will have on their determination to hear from him before congress. Oh, I'm sorry. We re ever to intimidate witnesses scare family members or prevent them from testifying before congress textbook mob tactics. And we condemn them in the strongest terms it goes on to actually letter written by some Democrats says when our committees begin discussions with Mr. Cohen's attorney not appearing before congress was never an option. That's Elijah Cummings on the oversight committee Representative Adam Schiff on the intelligence. So this isn't going to stop Michael from having to be hurt. No, it's not gonna stop Michael Cohen from because he's going to be subpoenaed. He's not gonna have a lot of defenses to that subpoena. Congress has very strong subpoena power. The thing here to remember is Michael Cohen. We knew that he had some concerns about people. He wanted to protect because it was very odd that he didn't enter into a cooperation agreement with the US attorney's office for the southern district. And yet was giving them information. And it was quite clear that he was protecting someone which was also very public. And you have to assume that Donald Trump understood what he was trying to protect and recognize that he could utilize that. I mean, that's at least one interpretation when you add to that though that Robert Mueller is probably not very excited about Michael Cohen testifying because he's got ongoing investigations he doesn't want obviously anything that might interfere with that. So I'm sure that the Democrats are obviously having those conversations about how to protect the investigation, but very clear. That there's intimidation here. Very clear. I absolutely agree with Paul that. This is an abuse of power and just remember member William bar, so the nominee Donald Trump picked to head the attorney general's. Turns out to be attorney general highest law lawyer in the land took the position that the president can be the prosecutor in chief at which they would use them as a defense saying we didn't intend that we're just directing prosecution. Yeah. Douglas, one of the things that the speaker Pelosi and her statement, she just very Linke statement about the indictment of Roger stone. And it was about the kind of people that Donald Trump's around himself with and you know, you've already seen Roger stone threatening to harm someone's dog calling them a rat. Donald Trump using language or rat of anybody who testifies Paul Manafort and questions of whether he was afraid to talk about what he knows because of all the nefarious characters represented. There is a theme to all of this that feels almost like we're talking about to blunt, a mob prosecution is that is that over the top to say that. That's what this is starting to feel like well, you think about it. You have the five families in the York and. Donald Trump was a developer in New York. So he had to be familiar with what goes on in terms of corruption with the labor unions. And no this percents percent five percent mob Texaco's on everything building New York. So he's been familiar with that kind of behavior. So if you watch the hand movements that kind of hand stuff that goes on back and forth. That's sort of reminds me of watching some of the guys we used to deal with so looking at what's going on. Now, you start to wonder saying as he taking the same behavior and bring it over into the Oval Office because I think was Sam number said yesterday that Roger stone, you're not Donald Trump. You can't intimidate people like like like Donald Trump, you're not the president. So those birds of feather who flock together, I think you see the same pattern going on right now. And my, you know, the idea that, you know, there was a time in New York City when there was this sort of emblematic idea of corruption of corruption Donald. Father operated in that world and got a lot done. Probably didn't pay a lot of taxes. He was opposed to pay. He's come up in a context of city government. He thinks he can manipulate. This is not what Washington is right now. No, it's not even what New York is right. Change substantial the batter that's not to say there isn't continuing corruption door. But there's no question that this was a deeply corrupt city, and yes and real estate, quite frankly, not all real estate, developers are criminals. This isn't what I'm saying. But the depth of corruption real estate transactions significant lots of money, very New York, very very tough. I think it's not coincidental that we have not had a person of Donald Trump's particular background in terms of what he does for a living go to the White House because it's very exposing. It's it's a sort of glass prison. Right. Everything about you comes out, my Wiley, Barbara mcquade, Paul Butler, Douglas Cologne. Thank you very much up next. If Nancy Pelosi showed us one thing this week. It's at a woman could be the most formidable adversary for Donald Trump and the latest woman to enter the twenty twenty race maybe taking notice that's next. My mother taught us long ago. She would say to me Kamla, you may be the first to do many things, but make sure you're not the last and when we look at where we are at this moment in the history of our country. I think our founders gave us the right charge. They said stand together take care of each other and serve your country as leaders, and that's what we do today. California. Senator comma Hera is already out on the campaign trail in South Carolina after confirming what a lot of oaks already expected this week she's running for president in twenty twenty. She now joins a growing list of democratic candidates bowing to take on Trump with dozens more potentially poise jump in the race. Don't even now is Donna Brazile, former DNC chair and author of for colored girls who have considered politics, and I've got the book right here. And so you obviously have done a lot of jobs, obviously, managing the Al Gore campaign running the DNC's. So you. You are just the expert that I want to talk to about this race. I want to start by talking about the idea of woman running here are the four that are already out there, comma Harris Kirsten gillibrand lose with Warrenton Gabbard. What do you say to people who say the country's not ready for a woman president that what happened in two thousand sixteen says that we're just not the country has been ready for women, president alone time about the way another woman Marianne Williamson, you may not know, she's a author, and she someone very inspirational. She is also out there in the Hawkeye state running its potential that Amy klobuchar will get in the race over the next two weeks. She she will be another woman that has a very strong background. And I do believe that perhaps more women my jump into the race. Look, this is a very historic for the Democratic Party. We will have a record number of candidates. We know that they're out in about traveling throughout this. Entry. But is America ready? Absolutely. Will happen in our lifetime. Joy, absolutely. Could have happened in twenty twenty. Yes. What would women candidates have to do differently because we know that women are judged differently? There are a lot of guys that are going to be Joe Biden could be in. It looks like Bernie Sanders. They're going to be in it. You've got a young guy. Indianapolis, mayor mayor in Indiana and Pete Buddha. Judge that might runs out in Indiana mayor you're gonna have a lot of guys into bed. Oh, potentially. What would a woman have to do to outpace a field like that Cory Booker etcetera? First of all this is a race for delegates. Not rules understand that an audit to win the nomination you have to go out there, and you have to build a coalition, and I think several of the women Elizabeth Warren common others. They're capable of building the kind of coalition you need not just in the early four stays to Hawkeye state, the grind state the Pell metal state in the seal estate, but you gotta go out there and build a strong coalition that can accrue delegates you've got to get on a ballot and me tell you I think one key to she because Hooper delegates will not be as prominent although we retain our voices not vote in terms of the first ballot. But it's important to go out there and get small Donna individual of volunteers to get behind your candidacy. They have records of accomplishment, and let's just take a page from Hillary Clinton who received sixty six million votes in general election over four million votes more votes and Bernie Sanders in the two thousand sixteen primary Hillary head very diverse operation. She was able to get. Delegates not just in those early states. But she understood that you had to build a coalition in the south and you had to build a coalition midwest take a page from Hillary Clinton. And I think you'll have a recipe for success in two thousand twenty you know, your campaign pro because you know, that nicknames of all the faith. That's how you know somebody's really been in the game. All over this country, so many presidential campaigns to lighten effect that you know, I get calls from my kids. Now, you have three hundred kids different daddies, get calls from my kids. And they're like, I'm thinking about jailbreak. I'm thinking about club. Sure, I'm thinking about Terry McAuliffe, and you know, and then last night, I got one I'm thinking about Corey book. Joe by somebody in every Cam. Yeah. Jesse Jackson Dick Gephardt, Walter Mondale. Michael Dukakis, Bill Clinton L at got them all running out of time. But I have to ask you because I know that you were running the DNC when that E mail hack took place, and that you had a lot of scared people that were worried they didn't know what was out there. They didn't know who stole it didn't know what was going on. What do you make of the indictment that we've just seen about Roger stone? First of all our country was under attack in two thousand sixteen. It was a tackle now democracy and yesterday use the democrat party to throw the first sallow it was a cyber attack. But it had a very strong impact on. Not just to twenty sixteen election, but it's still impacting our country. Now, I would hope that these individuals will tell the truth will face jury and help us as Americans get our country back on track. This was an attack on democracy, and they should go to jail, Donna believe in due process. But let me tell you this was an attack on our democracy. And yeah, and I know, you know, a lot of people who are personally impacted. Yes. This is the book for colored girls, y'all need to know about the colored girls they have a very storied history in American politics. Thank you so much being here. Thank you joy have a great weekend. All right coming up at the top of the hour behind the scenes look at mar-a-lago and its role in the Trump presidency. But I more to the rate. Boy. That's our show for today. We'll be back tomorrow at ten AM eastern up next. For instance, Rivera. It's Lawrence O'Donnell. If you love him NBC where your heart on your sleeve, you can gear up with t shirts. Hoodies hats and more from the last word and all of your favorite MSNBC shows you can shop now at MSNBC store dot com.

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Episode 2: New World

Blockbuster

30:18 min | Last month

Episode 2: New World

"PREVIOUSLY ON BLOCKBUSTER! Sorry I was somewhere else. Did you hear Jim? Don't you think you're capable of bigger things than driving trucks? Yeah. I know dead I'll figure it out. How. Three First Star Wars. We can ask them to investment. Invest. In what Zeno Genesis one shoot it. Yeah, somebody will eventually take notice. Listen I saw job listing for production assistant. A guy named Roger Cormon. Into I met. Schrader and blockbuster starts now. Spring Nineteen. Eighty. The Art Department workshop of Roger Korman's new world pictures. Do you work here? Hey, man, I'm actually listen. Can you go paint that wall? James held out a bucket of paint and a paintbrush I'm. I'm here for an interview. Oh. Well Nice to meet you Jim Hey. Man, Bill Paxton. Bill, Paxton was a struggling actor, hoping to work the graveyard shift, so he could keep his days open for auditions James. can you start night? Yam Azure. Thank you. As an right now, oh! Yeah, you're hired. Welcome to rural pictures. I'll get your paperwork later. okay, can you grab? This can and paint that wall yeah man. This is blockbuster. The story of James Cameron. Episode Two? Hey guys matched reader here and before we get back to blockbuster I want to tell you about a true crime story that takes place at the same time as ours. It's a must-listen son of a Hitman may nineteen seventy-nine, a man named John H. Wood Shot Dead, leaving his Texas home. He's the first federal judge ever assassinated, and it's a big deal. The hitman implicated in the murder Charles V. Harrelson, father of three boys including future oscar-nominated actor Woody Harrelson, but that's just the beginning son of a Hitman is a spotify original podcast, and you can listen to it free only on spotify now back to the show. Roger Cormon new world pictures new catered to a niche audience. Many of its movies were low budget knockoffs of bigger hits. B. Movies with more sex, nudity and bloody violence. The studio operated from an old lumber yard. It wasn't glamorous but James. It was a perfect place to hone his skills hands on with little risk of failing. He was already spending long days here drawing building painting. James pitched the team film techniques straight out of his research at the USC Library. This was his big chance, and he had to impress and the big man himself producer Roger Corman was taking note. James was getting more and more responsibility, taking the initiative on things that needed to get done and putting anyone and everyone in the lumber yard to work. Hey, you. Me Do. You were here can give you something to do no I'm you WANNA work? Here I can use the help and no. I'm the composer. Oh Jamie. Jamie, Horner oh your Jamie. Jim Cameron Nice to meet you. Jamie Horner was a twenty seven year old music theory teacher at Ucla just getting started as a composer on the upcoming film battle beyond the stars. This was the first meeting between two creative geniuses about to come into their own. The shops in there. If you want to have a look, oh, yes, I actually would come on in. We got some of the ships in here, just losing those up a little with all the little details Oh. Amazing. James was still new here, but was meeting everyone and making good impressions, even better than putting in your time James Thought was putting in the effort. This studio had jump started the careers of directors. He felt were far more talented than he'd ever be. Francis Ford Coppola. Martin Scorsese and Ron Howard. They had undeniable filmmaking talent. James knew he'd have to make up what he lacked by working twice as hard as anyone else. Hello. Hello I'm looking for the model Shah. Poking her head through the warehouse store was a twenty four year old Brunette with Blue Eyes Rogers new assistant, Gail and heard a recent Stanford graduate just starting at New World. She was here to check on the art department's Progress. Can I help you yes I'm here for Roger. Looking for the model shop. Sure I'm Jim Gail here. All show you around. The immediately had a spark of professional chemistry, and maybe something more, he walked through all the miniatures for the spaceships see the little pipes and vents and rivets and things all the details. Yeah, I think that's what really sells these real in cameras, so people think it's life size I call it clogging it up. There so much in it here. So these these are done to spell, yeah. Gail was writing up a report for Roger on the progress of all the models. James seemed to be on top of everything and knew what everyone was doing. That's wild bill over there, Bill Cameron. Their Bill Baxley. Gail Nice to meet you. Too Gail works for Roger. Cool. Why do they call you wild bill? Because a wild man, it's because he's big in his gestures and how he talks, he's an actor. Thanks Jeez I can see that Oh cameron showing office clues are painted that one right there that cardboard fast food box looks like you missed a spot. Man That's just the first coat of paint. This guy takes no prisoners. So your round, Gail, I'll be back for the second coat. Boss. Don't touch. Hands Okay okay. Natural performer. Don't you think? No question rate, so he works for you well. Yeah, sort of Europe the production designer. No No. I'm just a model builder the managers. I just assumed be has. Not yet anyway, maybe, shouldn't they? James quickly became good friends with Gail Bill and Jamie as he continued to rise up the ranks sure enough when the art team fell behind on battle beyond the stars James was promoted to the role of art director more work for the same pay, but also a chance to prove himself as a leader and on Gale's personal recommendation, Roger would promote James Production designer on the next film galaxy of terror, and it was a horror movie inspired by in some ways and knockoff of Ridley. Scott's recent thriller alien. James worked harder than ever exhausting himself in pulling all nighters until he felt he'd created designs that would truly blow people away Jim especially. Roger Pats really remarkable work. And so far it was working. Hey Gayle the morning. Congratulations on the promotion. Oh, thanks! His, you look like crap well. It was a long night. Did Sleep right. Couple of hours can did you even go home? There's a perfectly good caught here. Kim You're insane. There's a lot to do. The caught was actually a Gurney a prop from one of Roger's movies that James would pull into crash for a few hours asleep. Listen is Roger here. You got an? Well okay right ahead. He's cut. Thank you. Graham on it. How are things looking? Oh, great, really great. You'RE GONNA love. The set looks like a million bucks. I'm sure Hey Roger. I'm so appreciative of the opportunity here the last few weeks and Congratulations on the new title production designer I'm excited sir. Thank, thank you. Thank you so. Let's talk about my salary okay. James Initiative had suited him well, but after two years and several promotions, he felt right. Now was the time to ask for more money. Are you making no. Two hundred a week. Let's make it three hundred. Thank you, sir, but James was still tight on money, making far less than minimum wage, considering the long hours spent here, he'd often have Rama noodles for lunch just to pinch pennies, but he knew now was the time to assert himself will. What did the other guy get? The last production is on her seven fifty a week. He had a love more experience. Yeah, but you fired him. The last guy fucked up. Yes, we had to get rid of. I won't fuck. Jim. That's a big jump. How about? Four hundred! That's my promise. You want me to do the same job I want the same money. Roger saw a rare potential in james not only to dream up designs, but to execute seemingly impossible tasks flawlessly and bring out the best in everyone around him. Damn son? Roger New James was worth every penny. Okay! Okay seven fifty a week. Oh, that's that's great. Thank you. James had nearly quadrupled his salary. You won't regret it I know. That's why I'm giving it to you. And Roger. I don't think they're doing all. They could with the special effect shots. I want to be second unit director. What do you mean we don't have a second? You know but I think we should all shoot at night and we'll get really nice looking inserts and cut away shots. Jan A-plus I've already looked into this. It will shorten your shooting days with first unit. It'll pay for itself. That was the part Roger needed to hear. All. Right took second unit director. Thank you start among. This is going to be great. Go put your group together. I get out of my office for you. End Up. Getting to I'll get right to work. In, just a few short years, James had completely reinvented himself from truckdriver driver, going to see star wars to production, designer and second unit director of a Roger Corman movie. James felt this break in his career would finally convince his dad. He was the right path. oh hi. This is the new second unit director of Roger Corman Picture. I'm so proud of you. Fill up that's. He says he's a film director. Already interesting, no, he was an art director. Now he's A. Director Second Unit Director Mom. What's the second unit? The cut away shots things you know not the actors, but just some of the other shots. It's working with a camera now. You're director. For Second Unit Yes. Tell your father since high school. James said had a strained relationship with his Dad Philip, who disapproved of James? Interest in fiction. The film industry was a crapshoot, a waste of James Real potential natural talent in science and engineering. Philip felt a fatherly duty not to condone James Making. What he felt was a major career mistake. Hey, dead, I Got A job directing the second unit. Something I suppose right, yeah. I went in and said Roger You know how hard I'm working in I wanNA be paid what I'm worth and he said. Not Movies Right. Philip was straight, laced and Roger Corman. B. Movies had a reputation for having lots of nudity and sex scenes. Galaxy of terror was no exception. It had a graphic scene with a giant space worm and a naked woman. It was intended to be unsettling, but James couldn't tell his dad that no, it's. It's no. It's real movie. It's it's a thriller scary movie. It's like the movie. Alien did. You see that. Oh well, it's. A Pretty Big Movie Dad. I have maybe a hundred people or so all working on this. Directing now than its Second Unit Dad, but it's it's more like the cut always in shots of things you know close ups of special effects. Suddenly James realized how ridiculous his description of his job must sound Philip? His Dad had spent his whole life, working blue collar jobs and a paper factory. James wanted to make his dad proud, but they were speaking two different languages. Are you doing a rape for money? Yeah! Doing Alright for money that Zach actually. COMES WITH A big. World Son. Who can do all you can do? What do you mean? School your studies, you're capable of more. You're always capable of more. I just. Know WanNA see a wasting it on the wrong things I'm not. Working saying. Why don't you finish your math classes? Get your degree. Get back on your feet and find that I'm. I'm figuring it out. It May James Angry and more determined than ever to prove his father wrong. datsuns. Give my best to mom. Hey guys. Match reader here before we get back to blockbuster I, WanNa tell you about a new crime drama set in Los Angeles from Hbo you know his name, but not his past based on one of the best selling book series of all time Perry Mason is HBO's Next Must, Watch crime drama starring. Emmy Winner Matthew, Reese and Co starring. Emmy Winners Tatyana as Lonnie and John Lithgow, said in a vibrant but struggling nineteen thirties. Los Angeles. The series delves into the origin story of. Of American fictions, most legendary criminal defense lawyer as a down on his luck, private investigator, Perry Mason follows his cases through the seedy underbelly of La knowing full. Well, there's what's legal. And then there's what's right. Follow his journey as he unravels the secrets behind a disturbing case of a kidnapping gone wrong. Uncovering the truth means exposing a city full of corruption and everybody is guilty. Perry Mason Airs Sundays at nine PM ON HBO and streaming on Hbo Max now back to the show. To his friends at New world pictures like Bill Paxton. Gaylon heard, and of course Randy frakes James seemed like a man on a mission. He worked harder than anyone yet somehow never seemed to burn out. It was intimidating to some, but his work now is a second unit director as well elevating the whole film. Okay bringing the arm. One of his first special effects shots was a disgusting one a cut away in the film to a bloody severed arm. They designed it to look just like one of the main characters arms. Oh that's really horrifying. Her perfect great great job. Could use a little more blood here though Who has who is the worms right here? Bring them over. The shot called for Maggots, swarming the severn on, so they were using half inch mealworm sold at pet stores as reptile food out of a twenty pound box. You want to just dumped the whole box. Oh God. Those are disgusting excellent. You. WanNa look away. Oh Gross, Jimmy, you're not gonna just reach in there. James plunged his hand wrist deep into the worms like it was a tub of popcorn next to randy. WHO's manning one of their cameras? But I. Just I'M GONNA be sick James Walked over and started sprinkling the meal worms on the severed arm. You go there you are. The thing is it has to look organic and natural. We can't just dump them. We place them. that Anglo Okay Randy Yep Nice in revolting, maybe a few more on top. And there. Should. Go right here on site, okay? Yeah, that's brilliant. Jim. You're going to wash that handwriting. Moving this is supposed to be discussing seems pretty disgusting Jim. We're not moving. How much time do we have? James was shooting early in the morning as second unit, and he had to be wrapped before the first unit came in. It was always a tight squeeze, okay. I have an idea. Let's ZAP, them. How do we do that? Electricity run a current through what they'll be fine. They won't get hurt. All of a sudden James, basic knowledge of the sciences came in handy methyl cellulose methyl. What the aliens line it conducts electricity. Guys. Can you give me a gallon of the aliens line and a metal plate of some kind of put it on? As the crew scrambled to producers looked on the back of the stage. Impressed by James Vision to command something so small. Let's get the Armand to this plate. James stripped of power cable from an old broken appliance to the two copper ends were in the alien slime. Then he poured even more slime maggots in the arm. All right on my action I. Want You guys to plug the cord into the power outlet. What trust me? It's safe doesn't look safe Jim see that other cable. It's groundwater I. Have it running outside into the ground? This is one hundred percent safe. All right. The crew looked at each other. All right. And Camera Ready Ready Jim Randy roll camera. Camera! Let's choose. Action. The meal worms jumped to life wriggling, squirming slithering the severed arm. It was movie matching conjured up by this brilliant twenty five year old, special effects wizard. That good cut! The two men in the back of the room couldn't hear the electricity stock, but they're jaws dropped when James yelled cut on the mealworm. Stop Moving. How did he do dot? COM MIC. Hold on. What he could do with actors A. Excuse me you are Jim Thome. Ovidio natives movie producer. We are making film I'd love to take you to lunch to talk about it. James and the Italian B movie producer would go to Zaky's Deli in Santa Monica where James is offered his first job as a director, the ultra low budget sequel piranha to. It would shoot in Jamaica and with a film crew based out of Rome, but like always James Leapt at the opportunity this time to become a full fledged director. He sold all of his things, said Dubai was friends in La, and left for Jamaica with only a few suitcases, and some art supplies determined to make the most of his big shot. which would end before it even began? Stay tuned for a preview of the next episode of blockbuster and a short conversation about this episode. Hey I'm Ross Marquand to play the role of James Cameron Blockbuster. Thanks so much for listening and be surely a five star. Review on Apple PODCASTS, spotify or wherever you get your podcast likes. Hey, guys. It's match Raider here and before we get back to the show I want. Want to tell you about better help. Are you stuck at home? Feeling isolated worried about the state of things will better offers an online professional counselor whose job it is to help you through it all your connect with your licensed online therapist in a safe, private and confidential online environment, better health therapists specialize in issues like depression, stress, anxiety, relationships, insomnia, family, conflicts and more. So. Here's what you do. You fill out a questionnaire and within twenty four hours. Your masked with a counselor that you'll love if you don't. It's easy to find another counselor at no additional cost. Then it's easy to schedule video or phone sessions on better help and get unlimited messages with them. Better helped gives you access to professional help on your schedule and listeners of blockbuster get ten percent off your first month with Discount Code Blockbuster. Go to better help, dot com slash blockbuster talk to a therapist online and get help on your schedule. That's better help. Dot Com slash blockbuster, so they know that we sent you now back to the show. Don't go on the next episode of Blockbuster. Young James. orchestrates of brilliant if dangerous. That's GonNa kill me. I'm kidding what you ask for. No, you are not Jim. James and his producer come to blows over Parana to this is not working out. A fever. Dream of terrifying future scares James Out of his senses. What me? No, no, no, no, no, no! Oh come on, come on now. Come on. Come on Jim. That's coming up on episode three of Blockbuster, the story of James Cameron. I'm serious. Creator match schrader. Hey, this is Peter bobbitt's the sound designer I'm from the royalist. Grind the composer, and this is our creator chat about episode to you just heard from blockbuster, the story of James Cameron in this episode James has worked his way up to being a second unit director and meeting all these future collaborators along the way Bill Paxton Jamie Horner Gaylon Hurd of course, Roger Corman who he successfully lobbies for a raise We'll have a bonus interview with Roger Coming soon to to talk about that, but the scene I loved from this episode is the worms we talk about that more with James Lifelong friend Randy frakes in this week's bonus interview. But Peter. Can you take us inside some of that sound design here? There's a lot of stuff going on, and it's exciting stuff right because he bringing something that. Like tiny dead or maybe partially alive worms like making them the centerpiece of a scene, so it's it's really fun because there's a lot of squishing zaps and you're trying to make make it into a living organism of its own like a Frankenstein type of thing, but in parallel it's also really about James his brilliance, and the danger that he's putting everyone into, and it's really a fun scene because you get to. To experience this this very basic -ment that you know children have in. Kids have one when they play. It's I kind of that type of situation that that's what we're trying to evoke. Because he is taking his first steps kind of of his filmmaking career right here and also, if you listen to the special episode from last week with Bill, wisher This is not the first and last time. James does these things. Together with Randy almost electrocuted bill onset of Zeno Genesis. Guy Learns like he's trying to be the master of electricity onset I guess, but it's a really fun thing in in to be serious. It's a fun scene to create and and a nice Ark to have within the episode of this change of shift of emotions there and he's already had his electricity practice run so now now it's for real and he knows what he's doing Fernando. The music here is starting to develop more and more clearly. James relationship with his parents is is a strong influence on him at this point. Yes, as we develop James relationship with his parents. Hopefully, the musical themes reflect that. In a way that connects us more to his parents, his dad's disappointment of him, being a scientist, and his mom's constant support of James says more artistic side. We also see the development of his relationships with friends. He's made at Roger Corman. Production House which will become much more important later in the series, specifically his relationship with gale and Bill Paxton, and finally that less sequence. That Peter was just talking about something the warms. I wanted to represent musically a bit of this magic that happens when somebody has truly genuine idea, and where we see really James's instinct as a pioneer filmmaker and using his knowledge of the sciences to do something that ended up being really magical and caught the attention of all their people. Actually I decided to choose something. that a wasn't necessarily like an even meter since seven eight and Find a way to kind of make these scientific discoveries structure through sound some that meter and the effect of that meter emotionally is is what how would you I would say what that created creator a off unexpected pulse. For mostly listeners and what it creates is the sense of. The gears moving forward I love that piece when I first heard it and it's, it's a really cool little piece that I think paints. What was one of my favorite scenes that we've We've heard so far in the series. The other story that I found interesting in researching these early days at Roger Cormon studio was just how fast everything had to move. it became a crash course in in set design for James they were shooting these little b movie so quickly that the the paint on the sets wasn't even dry and There's even one film Roger Shot I think inside of a week. At one point, it might've been before James Battle beyond. The stars was never that fast, but there was still a lot to coordinate. You know that was one of their. Their their biggest projects up until that point that Roger, Corman had done and James, was essentially overseeing the sets of a whole movie that was supposed to be similar or be kind of the the B movie knockoff of of Star Wars so there's a lot of pressure on him there and at the time Roger Cormon I asked him about this. When when I interviewed with them, but at the time Roger Cormon would drive in in this little sports car to oversee the camera crews and the actors is they're coming in and visit the sound stage that James and his team were were painting, and they'd always be onset still and. Didn't like that. So I came across one story and I'm not sure if this is true. Because Roger didn't seem to recall this, but several other people have mentioned this of Roger Telling James that this is unacceptable. You guys can't be still doing this. And and James felt like he was in trouble wasn't sure what to do and the score. The the story goes that. Gail basically told him. No. Don't worry Rogers does that so so who knows the real truth there but either way? Way James Learn. How to play a bit of politics from this? He rounded everyone up on his crew the next night and he said we're going to build a warning. System will call it a Roger Drill. Somebody's going to be on the lookout for a sports car and immediately radio, and on the walkie talkies, and then inside the sound stage. Everyone. You know no matter what you're doing. Drop. It Get everything off the stage it. You know even if you're halfway. Halfway through painting something just leave. It needs to be totally empty so in Roger comes in. He sees everyone's gone. He'll just assume that the work is done and won't hopefully won't look too closely. So from that point on Roger Never scold James Again for not having sets ready, he'd walk in and see the sets were built overnight and totally constructed. Say This looks pretty good great work. And then when he walked through that whistle would blow, and everyone would come back to. To finish painting and finish up the set. It was a little bit difficult to confirm how much of that is actually true, but it sure seems to be and shows a little bit of that kind of James Cameron Spirit and that leadership that's starting to come together and this early training I guess that James had from Roger was something that molded James into who he eventually became, and you'll learn in the following episodes who he really became. That'll do it for us For for all of us here, Fernando Royal. Last grain thank. You Peter Bobby. Let's thank you match. Raider be sure to rate and review blockbuster wherever you get your podcasts and shares with the friend and we'll see again after episode three. Blockbuster is written and narrated by me. Match Raider sound designed by Peter, bats original music by Fernando Arroyo Alaska rain produced by Elena Bobbitt's starring Ross Marquand. For more on blockbuster, follow us on social media at Blockbuster, pod or visit US online to support the creators at blockbuster DOT COM Blockbuster is original production of epoch left media.

Roger New James James Cameron Roger Blockbuster director Jim Roger Corman Roger Cormon Bill Paxton Jim Gail Gail Bill Roger You James Initiative James Battle James Angry Jim Hey producer James Vision Roger Korman James Out
PCC One Shot - The Big O Episode 1 (Review): Roger the Negotiator

Pop Culture Cosmos

08:29 min | Last month

PCC One Shot - The Big O Episode 1 (Review): Roger the Negotiator

"Awesome What's up topic clips and pop culture COSMO's fans? I am here with a review of a will loved anime series. That's I, recently went back and watched So without further ADO, here's my review of episode. One of the big O. Roger The negotiator. I've been taking some time lately to go back and watch the anime series. I grew up with as a novel writer. Going back to my inspirations has been the key to reawakening my creativity, especially in these hectic times were just stepping out your front doors like going on a walk with sorrow in depression, so that being said the nor like world of the big O. has been a welcome distraction from the strange and terrible things going on in our society. Turning on the box at BLU ray, instead of the news has proven to be the best thing that I have done in weeks. For those of you who didn't happen to catch the. the masterpiece that is the big O back when it premiered on cartoon network's to Nami in the early two thousands of the big O's is an anime series created by H, e, Sato and directed by Kazuyoshi Katayama for sunrise. I might have pronounce those wrong if I did I apologize? It was created as a tribute to Japanese and western shows from the nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies. which is why it's. Presented in the same nor style popularized by films, such as taxi driver in the untouchables the godfather so on so forth, though instead of gang violence and revenge. It mixes a detective story with MEC action. Episode Want Introduces Paradigm City's top negotiator Roger Smith who has been hired to negotiate the retrieval of our Dorothy wainwright's the kidnap daughter of the eccentric and mad. Scientists Miguel Soldano after getting Dorothy back Roger finds out that the Dorothy he retrieved isn't actually the real dorothy She's an android. So what happened to the real dorothy something? We don't find out until later, so I won't spoil that for you. Knowing he'd been deceived. Roger Use a device on his watch to recall the suitcase full of money from the kidnappers So what happens is the case shoots up out of the car, and a has rockets coming out of the back, and it flies back towards Rogers so the kidnappers actually start shooting at it as it's flying back, causing it to open in the air and spill all the money all over paradigm city. Upon returning home, Roger Finds out that he has a lady guest. thinking it's an attractive client. He tries to make a smooth impression only to find out that it's the same Dorothy wainwright. He rescued earlier so keep in mind. Roger is basically like Bruce Wayne. Except instead of putting on a Batman suit, he drives a giant robot called the big O, or it's known as a mega megadose, so dorothy offers him a job to protect her, which leads him to A. A warehouse were something big was built so in a room suspended near the top of the warehouse. Roger Finds Sell Donald Slowly dying. He's been a shot. Apparently, there's blood all over the glass. In his last breath, he says something to Roger about a nightingale, so as so donald takes his last breath Roger realizes they've fallen into a trap. The kidnappers led by a man named back, waiting to ambush them Roger Dorothy managed to defeat them using a diversionary tactic which. TURNS OUT TO BE. Dorothy and a missile fired out of Rogers car, but while they're brawling. Something much bigger is happening downtown so becks. Men were distracting Roger while he while Beckham. Went downtown to do something so it turns out that the Dorothy that Roger was hired to get back is a giant mega deuce. Basically a Mexico called Dorothy one, and it's being piloted by back. Not only is back destroying the sitter city, but he's using Dorothy one to steal printing plates from the city's Bureau building. As Dorothy, one overpowers military force Roger Calls on his own neck. A black and red mega-deals called the big. Oh, a giant mech battle ensues, properties destroyed, and more questions are asked than answered by the end of the episodes twenty two minute runtime. so why should you watch the big Oh Why would you watch something? From the early two thousands in there are plenty of newer anime series out there, so here's my answer to that. The answer is the big. O. Has substance that's not to say that new doesn't but the big oil is a product of a time when an animation could be both entertaining and intellectual. And not only does a big make you think, but it asked a lot of important questions for example. The show takes place in a world where people have lost their memories. So what would mankind with a fresh starve is a lust for power and wealth and inevitability, or are some people naturally driven toward dark intentions If all knowledge of God and creation disappeared, would quote unquote new Gods Rice, take place, so the big O. speaks a great deal to both the virtues and shortcomings of human nature. In addition to the intellectual content, the big O soundtrack something nearly unparalleled than an anime series. An animated series I will say that cowboy bebop soundtrack is my absolute favorite, but big. O. Is a pretty close second. The smooth jazz and piano sounds were treated. We are treated to as Roger drives to the city. A paradigm truly pull you into the world while at the same time. bring you a sense of calm. I have never felt while watching anything literally ever. Episode one packs quite a bit into its twenty two minute runtime. It does a great job at feeling complete at the end, but also leaving you with more questions, you hope I will get answered by the end of the season so right now you can purchase the big O.. Blu Ray set on Amazon or stream it today via most streaming outlets i. give the show episode. One nine out of ten I hope to review. More episodes sustained suited for those. If you are a fan of pop culture, and you're following topic clips, please check out the pop culture cosmos show fewer a fan of pop culture. COSMO's and you like just random topics and a podcast. Please check out topic clips. You'll be able to find this review in all. The usual places will be up on pop culture COSMO'S DOT com in the top Cock Lips. PODCAST pages and the pop culture COSMO's podcast pages, so I hope you enjoy, and that is my review I will talk with you guys later. So for Josh Peterson. This is Joe Glasfurd. It's another beautiful day in paradise. Right here in the pub. Culture Cosmos Thank you for listening. and. Here's hoping. You have yourself. A GREAT! All right thanks for tuning into the show. If you WANNA find back episodes of the show, he can find it on itunes. Apple podcast Google play Stitcher podcasts. Dot Com pod, bean, and other great podcasting outlets around the globe, and we're also now available on other podcasting channels like the pop culture. COSMO's big dog. If they want to shoot an email, they send it to topic clips, gmail.com and purveyor of memes Brett crews if they want to find us on social media, were they look at topic clips at all social media's all right ladies and gentlemen until next time. It's been a pleasure to serve you.

Roger Dorothy Roger Dorothy wainwright COSMO BLU ray Roger Use Paradigm City Roger Smith Roger Calls writer MEC Nami Donald Slowly Apple Mexico Miguel Soldano Rogers Rogers
Could Roger Stone flip on Trump?

AM Joy

1:25:03 hr | 9 months ago

Could Roger Stone flip on Trump?

"We've got a really busy year ahead as you can imagine. And so The president decided to go to Walter Reed and kind of get a head start with some routine checkups As part of his annual exam. That's all it was very routine. He is healthy as can be. I put a statement out about that. He's got more energy than anybody in the White House That man works from six. Am until you know very very late at night. He's doing just fine. You know you know symphony. He's he's almost superhuman well. Good morning and welcome to am joy. Well we've got a lot to get to including the latest on newly released impeachment testimony that directly implicates locates Donald Trump. But I. You heard that right a bit of the Baghdad Bob for you this Sunday morning with the White House. Press Secretary Stephanie. Grisham who weirdly doesn't do press conferences but his job apparently to appear on Fox News issue superlatives but the greatness of the president while Fox News personalities like Genie Piero declare him to be super human displaying knowing how the White House is going all out to say nothing to see here and the president's picture help despite an unannounced Saturday visit to Walter Reed Medical Center all right let's go to Kelli Helio Donald. NBC News White House correspondent so besides Donald Trump's super humanity. How is the White House explaining why he went to the hospital? Well Good Morning Joy. Let me explain Elaine. What we know why it's different and causing some concern raising some questions? The president and his top advisers say that he had phase one or a a portion of his annual physical exam on Saturday and that everything is good and that he's in good condition. Good health why that is unusual. So is that for this. President and others typically announced in advance part of his public schedule usually of longer duration with a complete lab work multiple multiple tests multiple physicians involved historically. We've also seen with this president. There were photos of him meeting doctors. It's all done very much in advance in part because the health of this president any president of any party at any time is a national security concern. It's not just one individual's rules personal health. There are big implications. So if you do it differently than it's been done before that can raise questions so in this case The pool the group of rotating journalist. I traveled with him to Walter Reed. They were there yesterday afternoon for about two hours. His previous physical exam lasted roughly four hours. The White House is also says during that time he visited with medical personnel to offer his. Thanks and with a service member and family of a special forces servicemember. Who was is injured in Afghanistan so a lot in those two hours? They say he is in good. Good Health But again the reason questions are being raised is that they are doing in a way different front than the past and that always raises questions. All we have to work with the White House and the president saying he's in good health that this was an installment of his annual physical physical exam and that at a later point they will give us actual results of whatever medical checkup he had joy. Thank you very much. Donald A physical exam exam in installments. Very interesting Kelly. Donald thank you very much all right. Meanwhile the White House is dealing with a major escalation in the impeachment inquiry after historic Orrick. First Week of public hearings yesterday. Another top official broke ranks defied White House orders and appeared for a closed door deposition mark. Sandy who is a long time employee of the Office of Management and Budget and is a witness a crucial witness who can provide insight into why the O. M. B. withheld military aid Ukraine eight as his deposition was underway house. Democrats released the transcript of two other White House officials who sat for closed-door depositions earlier in the month not Jennifer Williams is a top national security vice president Mike Pence who took notes while listening to trump's July twenty fifth phone call with Ukrainian President William said the president's its efforts to pressure as Alinsky to investigate the Biden's and that crazy conspiracy theory were quote inappropriate to Morrison another top White House. National Security Aide told investigators the Gordon Sandline who is the US ambassador to the EU claimed that he was on trump's acting on trump orders when encouraging Ukrainian officials visuals to investigate the Biden's and that he was regularly in touch with trump silent himself is one of the many witnesses who is scheduled to testify in open hearings this week. Meaning we're going to get to the point where Democrats flipped the Republicans favorite talking point against them so and so said such and such to so oh and sell. We're not in a court gentleman. Then if we were the sixth amendment would apply and so would rules on hearsay and opinion and most of your testimonies would not be admissible whatsoever. I'm I'm glad that on Wednesday after the Democrats stage six weeks of secret depositions in the basement of the capital like some kind of strange Colt. The American people finally got to see this farce for themselves. They saw a sit through hours of hearsay testimony testimony about conversations that two diplomats who had never spoken to the president heard secondhand third hand and fourth hand from other people in other other words. Rumors cults an interesting turn of phrase there will these are not going to be third hand hearsay witnesses. Next week we're going to hear from people people who heard the alleged impeachable offenses firsthand from Donald Trump's own mouth. Join me now. Clarify for a former director of the White House Situation Room and former chief of staff half of the CIA. It's so good to see you in person The last time I spoke with you it was about the call itself. But we talked about this on Lawrence O'Donnell show and if you could just reiterate as somebody who ran the situation -Tuation room this is your job. What is the setup? Normally how many people normally listen to the call. Listen to a president on the phone and would you ever expect for a call to come in coming to the president on a cell phone so when it comes to head of state calls you're GonNa have a lot more people listening on the phone than a call from another. US government official missile but when a US government official calls in in this case Sunland from the testimony we heard the other day. He was waiting through a series of individuals before where he got to the president That could have included the State Department. Op Center it could have included the situation room. It could have included the White House switchboard. It's not unusual for an and for some of those people to stay on the line more to just monitor that the call is staying up and in case any problems arise and they need to do some reconnections but there could be some additional individuals news on those phone so if somebody let's say ambassador which he described as unusual for an ambassador ring up the president not normal. But let's just say in a normal world a guy guy who is in A. US ambassador is in Kiev in any calls the White House. He would go through the main switchboard and be connected to the present where he is and other people would be on that line. There could be some but probably be a smaller number than it would be a head of state Colonna probably would not be taking any notes and would it be unusual from your point of view because you also were deputy chief at the CIA for anyone to call the president on an insecure cellphone at all and for the president to have a conversation conversation like that and if someone were to do that would you expect other countries to be able to monitor that kind of a call Leo Presidents do receive personal phone calls but those are called to to discuss family matters. Or maybe it's an old friend. They're talking about the latest. You Know College football game a calling to talk about government business. Those calls should be done on government phones from as the best you can government space because sitting in a on the terrace of a restaurant in the middle of Ukraine using an unsecured device. You are opening up that conversation to be listened to you by human beings who are physically present backed by other human beings may be using some listening devices from across a room or a nearby car or from the Russian intelligence service sitting back in and you know Moscow picking up signals intercept. Yeah so so what you had here is a case where as you said sitting on that terrace the call between Sunland who we should point out again is is the ambassador to the. EU Ukraine is not a part of the E. You wrote so this is not even his area of responsibility so he calls up Donald Trump. He's on the terrace Chris at a restaurant he is heard by other people including his own aid. So would you consider that aide's testimony to be in a sense firsthand if he could also hear Donald Donald Trump on the other end of the line. I wouldn't call it anything else firsthand. So He's hearing what Donald Trump is then saying. He very distinct voice has a very distinct voice. We all know from television. So we're now finding out here is that what was heard. Donald trump saying. He didn't care about Ukraine they only cared about the investigations. So that testimony is going to come out publicly right if in your former capacity in your CIA capacity city you have a president who's telling ambassador of his. All I want is the investigation of a fellow American. How would that strike you? Oh very very unusual end of great concern and potentially a criminal nature The President United States should be should be working from his own stated policy and in this case is stated policy was to provide aid to Ukraine and to help them in their anti corruption efforts not to to help awesome do corruption right and Ukraine sort of the Benach on Ukraine has been that it's been a particularly corrupt. It had a particularly corrupt government since since it broke off from the USSR sort of struggled to be its own country in some instances wanting to be an e you country wanting to move more into the European sphere and having that resisted both with by Russia and sometimes by leaders of Ukraine who wanted to stay in Russia's orbit. Would you consider a president trying to get that country. That's in that position. That's also at war with Russia trying to get them to do an investigation or to find credence for a Russia. Clearing conspiracy conspiracy theory would the president of Ukraine in that instance have any choice but to say yes would you. Would it surprise you. If President of Ukraine in that instance said I'll do it. I'll go I had to do the investigation It wouldn't surprise me. The president of Ukraine is an horrible position where his number one patron the country providing him the largest amount of aid the country that he wants to have supporting him against this Russian enemy who is killing his fellow countrymen i. I can't imagine him telling the president know to almost any demand. Assad put Mr President. He'll do anything you want right and saying you know he the guy loves you. He'll do anything you want. This guy was a stand up. COMEDIAN MR the lorrimore Zielinski. He's not a very experienced government official. He's in a government where he's had to get rid of his his own chief prosecutor because he was corrupt so he's in a very vulnerable position. He needs this nearly four hundred million dollars in aid. So you're saying it's not surprising that he would be very solicitous the Donald Trump on the the main call July twenty fifth call and say yes sir. I'll meet with Mr Giuliani. I'll meet with William. I'll do whatever you want. That would not surprise you. Do doesn't surprise. Surprised me I think he. He felt like he had to do this to help his country. It's very disappointing. Though that it It also sends the wrong message the wrong lesson to a this brand new reformer leader who came into the job thinking that the United States was going to help him in his reform efforts. I can only imagine that he was horribly disappointed and probably looked looked around at his own advisers and said wow so this is what the real world really is everybody's corrupt and that is not what that's not what we a spouse. It's not who we are. As a nation and it feeds into the strategy of Ladimir Putin has for keeping a UH Ukraine closer in his orbit. What does it surprise you? Then because they republican defense has been well he never complained about it he never said I'm being pressured. Would you expect a foreign leader leader in that instance to raise his hands. Yes I was being pressured by the president of the United States. No I wouldn't expect him to say that. He was being pressured by the president. United States as long as this president is still the the president. He's going to do what he he's going to say and do what he has to do to help his own country. Perhaps he'll sing a different song when winning if things change in in coming months. It's it's so great to talk to you and I thank you for being here and I have to say given all of this. God blesses whistleblower for for for saying something. The great article by Greg Miller in the Washington Post yesterday that talked about this you know mid levels. CIA Guy that if it wasn't for that one individual who had the courage to step forward So much of what we now know. Today we would not know and we would have a president and a Qadri of Individuals around him Shanghai traditional American values in the US national interest. Absolutely Larry Phifer. It's so great to see you in person. Thank you very much for being here really appreciate your time today. Thank you and coming up. Ohio Congressman. Jim Jordan is Donald Trump's number one goto defender in the impeachment trial which is awkward branding for trump given the firestorm. That Jordan is facing back. Home we will explain. We come back cantor from Cox has all your favorites all in one place and with the contour remote you can use your voice to fund them on live TV on demand and streaming APPs like net flicks prime video and more see Cox dot com for details. There is one witness one witness that they won't bring in front of us. It won't bring in front of the American people that's the guy who started it all whistleblowing say to my colleague Doc. I'd be glad to have the person who started it all. Come in and testify. President trump is welcome to take a seat right there. Republican congressman. Jim Jordan was airdropped into the house. Intelligence Committee last week to serve as Donald Trump's primary attack dog but Jordan is facing entirely separate controversy of his own stemming from his time as an assistant wrestling coach at Ohio State University in a lawsuit filed last week a college wrestling pulling referee complaint claimed that twenty five years ago and Osu team doctor who had been accused of sexually assaulting students perform a sex sex act in the shower in front of him. The referee said he reported the incident directly to Jim Jordan but the Jordan basically shrugged it off. He is the the second person to say that he told George directly about sexual misconduct by the doctor. But Jordan has repeatedly denied knowing about the alleged abuse and joining me. Now is Melanie Fiona of politico. Thank you so much for being here. I was saying to you in the break. I think this is one of the most underplayed sort of stories. I think it's gotten a lot of ink and I think the REAS- it's under I the the the charge themselves which are horrible but also the fact that he has been elevated by the Republicans deliberately to be the guy on this impeachments right right and not only that but Jim Jordan has actually fundraising off of this now just this week. His campaign sent out an email saying he is under attack because of his starring role in this because he's trump trump's top defender and that they need to raise money to help him win reelection because he's under attack and he is not only denied these allegations. But who said it's part of this deep seated state conspiracy nearest against him and so they're trying to use this actually as a benefit for him. But let's talk about the actual alleged if you give us the backstory instinct order. We know that the dentals name is Richard Straus and tell us a little bit more about what it what it is that he did. Well Jim Jordan was the assistant coach for the Ohio state wrestling team back in the ninety s and it later came out out that this doctor was accused of sexually abusing a lot of these Athletes on the team and that they said they've raised these allegations to the coaches including Jim Jordan and that they essentially looked the other way Jordan has denied these allegations. He says he had no idea what this doctor was up to. That if he did he would have protected his athletes on his team. But now this is the second allegation we've seen from the referee which NBC reported on recently. That Jim Jordan specifically was reported about these allegations nations and didn't do anything about it. Does Jim Jordan asked about this. I see him walking out to camera every day. Doing the trump defense reading liberal talking points or whatever it is that Donald Trump wants him to say he'll he'll say it does he get asked about this on the hill because I recall one. Katie Hill was hounded about a revenge porn situation where she was basically victimized by her ex and had to resign over it. Does he get asked about this by seems like he's not getting as much heat. I mean you raise as a perfect example with Katie Hill. Democrats feel like they hold their members to a much higher standard and that Republicans play by a different set of rules. And you know just to point out. Dunkin Hunters Republican. How can congressman who has been accused of using campaign funds for affairs with the lobbyists congressionally than he is still in the committee? So Yeah Democrats feel like it's not fair I have to say Katie Hill California congresswoman. Who resigned in October about two weeks after accusations surfaced which really again where revenge porn against used against her senator? Al Franken as we all remember reside in January of twenty eighteen. Less than two months after accusations surfaced stemming from a photo as sort sort of goofy photos that he took another woman saying he hugged them too tightly. And you've got John Conyers the very well esteemed the guy who is the the reason pretty much gave him. Okay Day right. He's the guy who pushed to make sure we had a king holiday resigned in December. Twenty seventeen about two weeks after allegations of sexual harassment came forward and all of these were serious cases right. They were the people who made these accusations needed to be taken seriously and they were taken seriously by the Democratic Party. How are the Republicans Erbakan's responding to the fact that Mr Jordan is being accused by multiple people of ignoring the sexual abuse of nearly two hundred young men college students? Well what Republicans say that. There's no hard core evidence or proof. They also say that the House Ethics Committee doesn't have jurisdiction here because it happened before he was a congressman congressman. This happened years ago but I can tell you. Republicans have really adopted the trump playbook we've seen in the last two years if there's a scandal they keep their head down they deny it and they hope it will blow over and I think that's the strategy you've seen Jim Jordan deploy and he hasn't suffered consequences of it. It's the Roy Moore cavenaugh exact. Just keep our heads down and and fight for the guy no matter how despicably tim the allegations yeah and it hasn't impacted his standing in the GOP conference in fact he was elevated to this role. He's now a starting player on on house. Intelligence Committee for these hearings and voters reelected him after. These allegations first surfaced last year when the boss grabbed about grabbing women by the private parts and and was elevated to the White House anyway and his favorite guy on the Supreme Court Cry His way through allegations that were extremely serious by women and she was ignored by the party. I I guess it's all on brand on thank you so much Elena really really thank you coming up. We'll talk about what Roger Stone's conviction could mean for Donald trump with someone knows him. Well we're in the age of stone because the change in our politics the rough and tumble cutthroat politics slash and burn of what was just probably the dirtiest nastiest campaign in American political. History are now invoke folk. What message would you have for the viewers of this film who will loathe you on the credits roll? I revel in your hatred because if I were ineffective first of all if you have not seen the movie get me Roger Stone you need to go out and see it. Stone is Donald Trump's longtime dirty trickster and was his wikileaks connection in two thousand sixteen on Friday he was found guilty on seven federal charges including witness-tampering lying to Congress and obstructing trucked the Russia investigation if his rider dies headed to prison for up to fifty years. Well what does that mean for. Donald Trump. Joining me now is someone who's known both trump and stone for a long time sand Sam number and Glenn Kirschner former federal prosecutor. Thank you all for being here Sam. I'm GonNa go to you first this week. Alex Jones of all all people went to bat for the now convicted. Mr Stole let me let you hear a little bit of his plea Donald Trump. He said to me Alex Barring Miracle I appeal to God and I appeal to your listeners for prayer and appeal to the president to pardon me because to do show would be a action that would show these corrupt courts that they're not going to get away with persecuting people before their free speech or for the crime getting the president elected so Jesus through Alex Jones is weird. But you know all these guys. Hey Do you think it's likely that Donald Trump will go ahead and give Alex Jones his wish and pardon him and if he doesn't what do you think stone will do. Well somebody joy you understand conservative media very well. It's not only Alex Jones Tucker. Carlson had a segment on Friday night. And he even it made the point that to the president directly saying if you've pardoned drug dealers why wouldn't you pardon Roger as opposed to Michael Kohn Paul Manafort. Michael Flynn gene and others. Roger was found guilty and he was guilty of process crimes directly out of the investigation. It was nothing to do with anything in terms of his finances or any conduct conduct that he had outside of this outside of the election. And I don't know why the president if the president does not there will be pushed back and and there will be and what will be the pushback. What do you do? You think that you know. Would Roger Stone's start talking about the things he knows about Donald Trump and pay him back. No Roger Roger We. Roger will never do that despite the fact that frankly he should not have he should not have followed the president's message in his congressional testimony. Honey I'm not here as a special pleader for whether or not Roger was guilty or not. What I'm telling you is? Roger acted to protect the president. Roger has a high fidelity and loyalty particularly the Donald Trump. That I don't think is well deserved. I saw firsthand. I Argued With Roger during the campaign. And I told you before I said to the grand jury so I've said this under oath I told Roger You should not make yourself a target. Why Hillary Clinton looked like she was gonNA win? James Komi is Shirley already investigating you and Donald Trump will not do anything for you. I mean even think of a party what I meant was Donald. Trump was not even going to have him to the White House. Donald Trump is going to completely disassociate is associate himself with Roger and for trump not to pardon Roger in light of what Donald has said about this investigation. It's it's quite hypocritical. Got Me perhaps. Roger needs to find a way to contact Kim Kardashian and Kanye Glenn First of all let's go back a little bit of something that Sam said well these processes crimes. There's no such thing as a process crime. All due respect to Sam the crimes that people commit when they lie under oath when they obstruct trucked justice when they tamper with witnesses. Those are crimes that strike at the very heart of the process. They undermine the entire hire system. They hurt us all so I hate the term process crimes because those are some of the most damaging crimes to our system and let me go through just really quickly so we now Roger Stone. He's now on our list. Dump trump has a lot of friends that have been convicted of crimes. But if you think about Michael Cohen Paul Manafort Rick Gates. Michael Flynn and George Popadopoulos in Roger Stone who is the most dangerous to Donald Trump. Because he's got to now be thinking pardons right. He just pardoned three four military members on warcrimes charges. He does use a pardon every so often to make to tell a story. And I'm a former army officer before I became a federal prosecutor. So the fact. That trump is pardoning hardening war criminals. One it's miscalculation on his part because the military will never rise up to support Donald Trump. Once he is thrown D- And into it does a disservice to all of the law abiding military members who are deployed who are following the rules of engagement. They are now more at risk because of Donald Trump's trump's pardons of war criminals than they were ever before but with respect to. WHO's the most dangerous to to trump? I think stone is extremely dangerous. And I'm GonNa partways with Sam because stones all big and strong and he'll never flip on the president. We just saw a clip where he was big and strong where he was when he was looking into the camera promoting himself shelby. Said I revel in your hate you know. What when Judge Amy? Berman Jackson turned to him. Mr Combative Mr. I love the limelight and said you ready to testify in your own trial. Now wait a minute. Everybody's got a Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination and they don't have to testify being what he did he punked out. Yeah he said No. I don't WanNA testify. What happened to big bad Roger Stone? I don't believe for a minute that there is not at least a slight chance. He will flip. I've taken combative defendants trial before. Who refused to meet with me? Refuse to debrief refused to flip on the bigger fish. I said fine. I'm going to give you a trial. I got him convicted. They were facing life before they went to sentencing. I've said we'll talk to me now and some of them did. Yeah if I'm a prosecutor I'm stepping back to stone giving him one more chance. The windows closing right Roger. But I don't rule that out yet. He may never come in and talk to the prosecutors is but he may but he may because the thing is Sam if he's facing up to fifty years you've also got rudy. Giuliani out there. Who knows what's going to happen to him eagerly? You've you've got Paul Manafort out there. WHO's the Guy Behind the insane conspiracy theory the US didn't land on the moon? Southam spiracy theory that of Ukraine gene. You've got him out there you know. Michael Cohen is already made it clear. Trump is disloyal. As you have said to you did you have a you said it to me. there's GonNa be a race to the pardon line right. Somebody's GonNa get it if anyone gets it at all. Do you think any of them will actually say you know what. Let me save myself and stopped defending this hi. There are a lot of people on the list who could do it. Will any of them do it. Well they don't have anything. And this is where all partways Glenn if Roger B if Roger Does what Glenn on says that's fine but there was no conspiracy under the Criminal Code and trust me. If there was Roger would have been charged with it remember. They rated rated his house else when he was arrested. They took his computer. They took documents. They couldn't find that he had any direct or indirect real contact with Julian assange. And that's why question in hold on one second. You mean to tell me that he committed crimes just on his own to help get trump elected. It never talked to anybody and trump world and no one in trump world cared about it. It was just him on on his own deciding to run his own campaign for the president. What Roger would have dealt directly with Julian assange Roger would have helped coordinate and strategize? Julian assange as as it turns out. Wanted nothing to do with Roger so it's only because of the fact that Julian William Assange. I think wanted all the credit and it goes back to when Roger called Donald Trump and I believe they had those conversations. I believe Michael Cohen says I believe I don't know about Rick Gates. I wouldn't necessarily believe him. But let's I believe that. There were conversations that they had about Wiki wikileaks about is to me. That's Roger Somebody the nosy people just trying to get Donald on the phone. Just trying to say he spoke to just trying to tell the media that he is still relevant and somebody Alex Jones for instance. It would hurt Roger after the fact after the election. Because I'm sure he was telling Alex Jones. Oh I've been talking to Julian assange. Yeah it it is a it is a puzzle but we're out of time but I just want to ask very quick quick last question If there was one person you'd WanNa flip on that list of people who've been convicted. Who would you want? I I would WANNA flip stone. You know why because not only does he have a history with Donald. Trump is a friend and an adviser going back forty years. He's going to have have the all important information about New York. State crimes that are beyond the reach of a presidential pardon and that may ultimately be what lands Donald Trump in imprison. It's GonNa be it's GonNa it's only GonNa get more interesting Sam Nunn Berg Glenn Kirschner. Thank you both good and coming up brand new poll out of Iowa that shows a brand new face. The top of the leaderboard. What we've seen is that our message is gaining traction with people across the state of Iowa caucus goers who are concerned about the future of this country who want a president who can bring us together and WanNa bring us together without sacrificing our values? There's a way to do that. That's been our message and it seems to be continuing to get us. More and more support has begun south. Bend Indiana Mayor P. Buddha judge is now leading the the democratic pack in Iowa according to a new poll from the register and CNN twenty-five percent of likely Iowa caucus goers say Buddha judge is their first choice followed by Elizabeth Warren with sixteen percent at Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden with fifteen percent of peace. Now's Jason Johnson. POLITICS EDITOR DOT Com. We have a bunch of politics. We WanNA start in Iowa. What's going on in Iowa? Worn Down Bernie's flat biden is down Budaj way up what's going on dogs and cats living together. Gather amass history like the idea of Mayor Pete being ahead not put a small amount but at twenty five percent only two or three months away. I'm amazed I. I am absolutely shocked because it's not like he's done particularly well in the media lately. I think it's an indicator that a lot of voters in Iowa and we don't know that I was necessarily indicative how the rest of the country feel a lot of voters in Iowa. have some serious issues about Joe Biden. who was leading there for a long time and they also seem to find what mayor talking about to be appealing whether or not he'll sustain it? We don't know job because there are lots of people who are heading early November who end up flaming out by the time they get there but for now he's one. The thing is is that I feel like there are two sets of camps in the Democratic Party there are fifty seven hundred of them running. You've got one camp. That is the bring the country together and make things feel normal camp which Biden was the top dyas areas which Buddha judge now feels like. He's the top guy in Corey Booker. Also wants to play in that camp as well that camp. You've got the make dramatic change and fundamentally reorganized society around issues around inequality which is basically Warren and Bernie. It feels like the side. That saying normal. Is it saying come together with the people on the other side of the aisle. That is getting it wrong. That that's kind of why Buddha judges surging so I I sort of agree there. You got these two different tracks here right. You have the the liberal change. And then also the anti establishment candidates and that's Bernie warned us also Tolsey that's also Andrew Yang there. The systems trash got to do something different. Anti sabotage. Don't trust the Democratic Party and then you have the people were like look we just got to change things a bit now. Now to be fair to repeat his whole campaign has been about. We can't go back to the old normal old normal hasn't worked that's what he ran off and I think that there are people who are concerned because of Joe Biden's performance you also. He hasn't raised money particularly mayor. Pete looks like a guy who at least represents what people want right now. My question is always been this and we have this conversation all the time. Difference we we being electable and being viable viable as you can win your party's nomination electable. Means you can win a general election. I don't know how many people really believe that he thirty-seven-year-old mayor of a town whose whose entire population could fit inside the Ohio state. Football Stadium actually go head to head with Donald Trump win oppressed. And here's the question. I think for judges. Well let's just say I can see a scenario we're butit's holds it out and stays on top wins Iowa. It's a very white state. It's not diverse so this is mainly sort of a a white liberal voters primary. And then you moved to New Hampshire where you have a warrant potential by bill. She's regionally there but now of course you have this Massachusetts mayor. I don't know if he's going to run much governor for wwl Patrick. We don't have that complicates what's her situation. But let's say she held it out and one New Hampshire and then you head down to the black primary and that's where Buddha just has no traction this story this week that he had claimed that there was some support for his his plan for African American and he had a picture which apparently was from a Kenyan stock photo that was supposedly black like people who supported him not to mention the rumor several weeks ago about a leak report. Look here's the thing to quote one of our dear friends a lot of what Kinda passports right in New Hampshire crackle mayor Pete does well. They're the fact of the matter is you cannot bring together a coalition to win the presidency as a Democrat. You can't just have black support. You have to have enthusiastic African American support right to mayor PGE credit. He has been trying yeah. I don't think it's going to change. So if then one that primarily what happens. I WanNa really quick because I could see Biden winning the third one and then you've got to the I bought. I actually think Joe Biden's probably GONNA win Dot Com. So if you had biden been start to win the primaries with more people of color you then we could see a broker mentioned. Yes we want to talk about calmly Harris really quickly before we got it because commonly there's to me is a candidate that seems to fill all those boxes you would be fundamental change. She's a woman of color. I cannot explain why she isn't resonating more because the fundamentals of her still seem really good to me. If you want somebody who will change the perspective of what America looks like but not have as much changes. Just maybe people think Warren is too much change. I WANNA point this all credit to political whatever I am so sick and tired of Harris Obituary articles. She still running right yeah. You don't see obituary articles for Cory Booker. You don't see obituary. Articles for Joe Biden should be raising a lot. More money for being I believe this and this is the thing there have been some on. Strategic mistakes at the Harris Campaign has made. She's also suffered from the fact that the rise of Elizabeth Warren but at the end of the day there is always time for a comeback kid right. There's always time for somebody to who do really well in debate. Yeah somebody else get in trouble. I don't think the Harris campaign is dead at this particular and I think they've all made strategic mistakes here and there. She's the only one that gets continuing hammered. It is starting according to annoy a lot of black women. That are getting really irritated. I'm just going to throw in my own editorial comment I think the next debate which is an MSNBC debate. I I think it loses something by not having holy on Castro there is an important voice. And he's an amazing voice and it's an indicator of the fact that you've got people can buy their ways into these debates like Tom Star but voices that have consistently been a three to five percent nationally. Can't find their way and they got to have a different candidate. Just throw out before we go Louisiana. Donald Trump begged for a win. Hang John Get it. He's still a Democrat governor. Sports teams and governor is. I don't know I don't think you want Donald Trump support you at this point. Yeah he got booed by the electorate Jason Johnson Boo. ooh That's what they basically say 'cause he's like please. Please get rid of this democratic governor. They were like no more coming up including visit to the Impeachment Alternative Universe Bajic on Earth to coming up. Even some of the Fox News personages Cutting the dear leader after this week's impeachment hearing with the Scots next blue by the testimony of Marie of unabridged today. You don't have a pulse. This whole hearing. Turn on a dime when the president tweeted about her real time and during the questioning Adam Schiff stopped the democratic questioning to read the president's tweet to her and get her response now that enabled shift to then characterize that tweet as intimidating. The witness tampering with a witness which is a crime adding essentially an article of impeachment. Real time welcome back to. Am Joy what you are not hallucinating donating that was actual impeachment coverage on trump TV. This Week Fox News Anchor. Chris Wallace found ambassador. Marie Ivanovich testimony so compelling in Bret Baier found found trump's mid hearing tweets to be so troubling that they actually responded in a way that suggested they were granted grounded in reality. But they're not. We have not entered the upside down the trump cheerleaders on earth to were back in action by Friday night demeaning the career diplomat she knew nothing as Devin. Vanunu's why was she even there. We just get more testimony more testimony. Yes another self-important very narcissistic diplomat snowflake who can't take minor tiny baby criticism by the end. The hearing sounded like a therapy session or an extended meeting with the HR Department the definition of Hell Donald Trump's real offense turned out to be wounding beautiful soul of a highly sensitive former American ambassador. It's pretty embarrassing. It's kind of scary. Doing the screening over there at the State Department. How many other narotics currently hold investor rank like the cabinet hearing never happened and when they weren't ridiculing people who've actually dedicated their lives live to serving the interests of their country rather than abject obedience service too dumb trump the pundits on trump? TV called the impeachment inquiry a show trial and even worse a boring show. There's no burglary. There's no break in. There's no tapes. There's no dress there's no sex. There's no Monica Lewinsky. Just interest. Just isn't there. There's no there's no burglar there's no sex wide banks former assistant Watergate Special Prosecutor and author of the Watergate Girl Jason Jason Johnson politics editor for the root dot com. Julia Davis Russian media analyst and columnist for the daily Beast Gabe Sherman special correspondent for Vanity Fair the author of the loudest voice in the room. Eric Boehlert author and media analyst and Charlie Sykes Editor in chief of the bulwark. Thanks for being here. Jill wine banks you. You know you're one of us on this panel who's actually been through one of these hearings before during Watergate when you hear the man who used to be education secretary. Terry of the United States complained that the problem with the hearings is that there was no burglary. no-one burgled there was no sex. There's no Monica Lewinsky Your your thoughts. Well number one. There was a break in. That was what the Miller report was all about number two. There's plenty of sex from Donald Trump. That's all the hush money that he paid before. But this has all the drama that might have been missing from the hearing that preceded it on the Muller report anyone who didn't feel the drama of the Ambassadors Ball. The basketball both Taylor Taylor anti-obama bitch of their testimony but especially the battery Ivanovich. I was moved almost to tears by her her story and then to see her being threatened a second time because remember she was threatened when she was recalled from Ukraine. She gets a phone. Call all saying your security is at risk after she has been hosting an awards ceremony for the now deceased activist for for anti-corruption who died because of a an acid attack. She was Hit with acid and then she's told she really is told that she's she's in danger and has to come home on the next plane and then while she's on television. The President says look what happened in Somalia everywhere she goes things go bad and it's it's just despicable and unacceptable for the president to act that way. It's horrible that she was recalled to begin with on the eve of the inauguration when she was doing exactly what American policy was she got out of the way so that the alternative reality the Alternative Universe of the Donald Trump private secret Foreign policy could go ahead and that included a shakedown bribery extortion of Ukraine. Yeah and it's and Donald trump a admits to it and that we have his own voice through people who heard him talking with his friend the ambassador on a cellphone. Charlie Sykes the thing I think that made this hearing so dramatic and I thought the Wednesday hearing was also quite good. I thought the ambassador and Mr Kin were very compelling You heard You know a lot of talks about the voice voice over capabilities at the former ambassador. The former ambassador might be willing to Mister Taylor might be willing to undertake but I thought the second hearing With rich the fact that she's asked about the fact that she's told that Donald Trump is saying she's going to go through some things knowing you know that Russia has been accused of poisoning people that displease it VICI herself hailed this very brave young woman who was had acid thrown on her and Ukraine for being a reformer and then to be told she's GonNa go suit mafioso language being used some thuggish language used by the president and then he does it again in real time on television. You know you used to being in conservative media the idea that Republicans were laughing at her mocking mocking her. As that's going on. What do you make of it? Well I I do think you also saw the way of blew up the Republican strategy for the day. Because I do think that there's a a broad understanding that these kinds of personal attacks on public servants and patriots like Maria Maria Ivanovich backfires. And I think you saw that against a lieutenant colonel vitamin as well but I think that the reaction of a Fox is important to to keep focus on as you point out. It is an alternative reality and I'm really struck by the fact that they've already adopted the sort of bored teenager approach. There's nothing to see your I think in part because they understand that the a show is not helping their guy and they can cherry pick the evidence but but at the end of the day. There's really going to be no doubt about what happened happened here. We know what happened. We know what Donald Trump wanted. We know what Donald Trump did we know what his tactic is. An intimidating witnesses and trying to induce witnesses To to to not come come forward. The question is what will the Republican base find acceptable what will Republicans Republicans find defensible. That's the real question and I think you're kind of seeing the two phases of Fox. Chris Wallace by the way earlier this morning. Just dismantled Steve scalise police on on the air really exposing how weak the Republican defense is and that you saw this response by Brad Bear but then you also see the you know oh the I'm sorry. The polishers in in prime time and their defense has become more hysterical and more extreme and frankly more profoundly juvenile and dumbed down the worse this gets for the president. Yeah and you know I I I WANNA at this point and I think it's an important point to bring in Julia Davis first of all. Welcome to the this show We haven't had job before but I follow you on twitter and follow your work and I want to do because I thought that you make a really important point. You've you have a piece in the daily beast right now. The talks about the fact that Russia loves the impeaching hearings because the GOP is parenting Kremlin propaganda. One one of the things that I found the most striking this week I love their choice of defenders. Lead Defenders Weird. You've got Devin nunes. WHO's talking about colts while he is literally parenting Russian propaganda and this fake? We never landed on the moon. The moon landing was faked. The moon is made of cheese conspiracy theory that Russia didn't attack our election it. It was Ukraine the country that is being invaded by Russia. They're the real culprit. He did that twice in both of his opening statements on Wednesday and on Friday that conspiracy theory comes from Russian intelligence from the GRU to Constantine Kalinic right into the mouth of Manafort right from manafort afford to trump. We know that's the origin. What do you make of this idea that we now have? The Republican Party is raking member on the Intelligence Committee. Repeating the same Russian propaganda that the president of the United States apparently believes yes joy. This dream come. True for the Kremlin and actually putting name self has been spouting the same conspiracy theory China blame Ukraine for the election interference so the Russians certainly are loving the impeachment proceedings because they now have not only the president of the United States but the Republicans repeating and echoing all of the Russian conspiracy theories series and discrediting themselves. And they're hoping that in the end this will and to the lifting of the Russian sanctions and all the blame being pinned DESCR squarely on Ukraine. which all of this serves the Russians? Very well yeah. We go to Gabe on this because you know. I think it's important to point out here. You know you know we. We have no problem putting up the numbers the majority Republicans are watching. All of this happened on Fox News. Non Republican viewers are split between all of the rest rest of us and Fox News has the vast majority of identified Republicans. That's where they're getting their information varieties. TV Ratings Fox ABC ABC drew big impeachment numbers on Wednesday Fox News coverage from ten. Am to three thirty pm through the highest total viewership of any network. Averaging around two point nine million sets of eyeballs. And let me show you. This is what they were seeing boxes graphics that they put up when this was going on what they say about these. These people full William Taylor Acting Ambassador to Ukraine October. Twenty three president trump dismiss Taylor as a never-trumper White House called Taylor's closed door testimony. Triple hearsay say geos piece as Taylor had no knowledge of Ukraine aid. MSNBC's graphic on. Mr Taylor said he's the acting ambassador. He's the top US diplomat. He testified testified. He had clear understanding. That aid was tired two probes. He texted it would be crazy to withhold Ukraine military aid as a qualitative comparison. MSNBC and most other networks. Just put up the facts about Mr Taylor. Fox puts up pejorative facts about Mr Taylor so even in the graphics telling viewers what they want to them to. I think even though you do have a few of them who will tell the truth when they are allowed to speak. Couple anchors. Take your thoughts. Well I mean I think that's clearly. A reflection of one of Roger. AILES is the most famous sayings was that people don't want to be informed. They WanNa feel informed so yes fox. News will carry the impeachment hearings live to give the audience a sense of. Oh we're really following the news but instead they're getting these right wing top pro-trump talking points splashed on the screen and that's the information that the viewer will soak in not the minute show shove what does actually being spoken in that hearing room so I think this is clearly just a very very strong example of how effective as Propaganda Fox snooze really is and I think the other thing that we should point out is yes. It's valuable. That people like Bret Baier and Chris. Wallace are covering the story as the facts play. Play out but those are just you know very thin slices in a much bigger pie. Where you have Sean Hannity Laura Ingraham Tucker Carlson just three hours of non stop stop? Just total trump right wing propaganda. That is Throwing mud and sand in the eyes of the viewers about what is really happening during this impeachment treatment. So I think yes. We should point out that there is some pockets there but I don't think the media should give over overplay. The role that Chris Wallace and Bret Baier Habit Fox. Because because I think that is misstating. The truth of what Fox News is doing and the fact that the president's poll numbers or not collapsing again. We've talked about this on the show a lot Fox News. This is the firewall standing between. Donald Trump having approval ratings in the thirties and forties and going down into the twenties or teens. Yeah absolutely let me play for you. Eric Boehlert Geraldo Rivera. Basically saying as much to her off though if it wasn't your show Sean. And they would destroy him absolutely. You're the difference between Donald J trump and Richard Nixon in Nixon's case if B had someone that stuck up for him he wouldn't have been motivated to cover up and burglary. That was actually October. I I just want to point out eric but it looks like got it. Looks like Geraldo read. Read Gabriel's Book I. This is this is what would have saved Nixon. And they're trying to save trump. They're trying but we'll see I mean and two games porn. I agree that you. There's two Fox News into at his pie chart. I mean if it was a pie chart would be three percent news about nine seven percent bonkers just off the rails Alex Jones nonsense so yes I totally agree but right so is he going to say Fox News. I mean is Fox. News GonNa save trump the polls don't show the country is going that way. We have seen some early polls from this week. That people were very engaged. I love this Fox News. Talking Point it's so boring and their ratings are through the roof as is every cable news ratings through the roof last week people are engaged and his Charlie mentioned. We already know the outcome. There is no whodunit here. This is all all public view. Which is going to hurt and my quick point is for the hearings? This really shows how Fox News has devoured the entire Republican party. I I mean those questions particularly on Wednesday Taylor and Ken from the Republican General Counsel. I mean if you don't watch Hannity fifteen twenty hours a week you had no idea. Due to general counsel was talking about and a quick point you know ten years ago when we had important hearings one or two tea party Republicans would go off on these aransas and everyone else in the room including Republicans would kind of roll their eyes. Now it's everyone on. The intelligence committee is doing that exact. Same thing it's really scary. Sorry for democracy and it's really scary to try to have a conversation in this country about facts. Jason cast of characters who are Donald Trump's chief defenders anders here right so they put out Jim Jordan. Who pointed out earlier today? He got problems can yes yeah everywhere except his own Jim. You've got Devon noon. Yun is who has essentially been the guy who was sneaking in and out of the White House trying to do Donald Trump's defense during the muller hearings and who has this bizarre we didn't land on the moon conspiracy theory that he also believes their ranking member on the intelligence this morning we had Steve Scalise who they on ironically placed into leadership despite him having in the past that he was David Duke without the baggage side with him. That's all fine. They're all fine and I wonder then if the fact that we have third of the country that will never ever be convinced. Donald trump is even capable Tehran. Able to be shot someone on Fifth Avenue exactly then. Is there a point then in the bigger hearings being televised for the rest of us. What does that what does it? This is very key joy. There is a big point because it's interesting those same critics right and then some of the critics on other networks. Oh the president calling him shifty shift and saying they're neurotic and they're nerds geeks and everything else like that. What does it mean for the Republican Party that you're listening to a bunch of nerds because basically what's happening if you look at the polls the American people are watching these hearings and saying yeah we're convinced is that the president should be impeached? So I think what's happening is the ECHO CHAMBER is getting smaller and smaller and what they're realizing is never how much dirt that they throw it. You've Arnovitz no matter how much they throw at different people coming. They're not getting through and they're not expanding the number of people who are questioning the legitimacy of the impeachment. I mean you even had joined banks you had even regular regular journalists said. Where's the possess Jonathan Allen our friend Jonathan Allen said where's the possess think the possess? Those are pretty obvious and eric swallow. I thought made a really good point. Got Congress as well so we're not everything. Hey You Rajab is not the entertain you. It is to inform and let everybody know what the characters are. But it's not entertain Majo-. I agree with everything. I think what we're learning this week. Is that there is a lot of drama because anyone who didn't respond to ambassador your testimony is not got got a pulse. I mean it was so dramatic as was Kent and Taylor. And the difference in how it's portrayed makes a difference but ultimately if people would watch from gavel to gavel. They would see what I saw. which is that? The evidence all shows that the person in who benefited from all of the conduct by either trump or his minions from Giuliani to Sunland etc is Putin and Russia bats the beneficiary. The people who are hurt our America and Ukraine and that's important and they will also see that every every single thing that has been testified to everyone was concerned about. Everyone thought was unusual. Well unusual at some point gets to be very damning and very much evidence of corruption. Yeah and Julia. How is this being watched over? On the Russia side besides sides I've seen a little bit of them ridiculing trump well they constantly ridiculed trump and they think his generally awful for America which is why they love him so much and they are watching these hearings with great enjoyment they find no lack of bazaars there they they think that it's a very revealing and the Republicans by reciting Russian talking points and conspiracy. Theories are discrediting themselves and democracy as a whole and the Russians nations. Believe that even though the facts are very damning for trump that the Republicans will still not vote against them and will not vote. Impeach each which again will prove Putin's Talking Point that the democracy is fake and that there are no morals or principal so in every possible way. Hey this is playing out. In favor of the Kremlin Gogo Gable Gabriel Sherman. They're certainly proving that aren't they. Because it's not a whodunit. It's done it. Everybody knows he did it and I think can you just make I mean do Republicans are they conscious of the fact that they have now signed on full on two Republican talking points in the Republican beliefs about the world. Yeah I mean without no question. The Republicans in private that I talked to you know including many people who work for the president. You know they'll say one thing in private. But it's just very few George George Conway who I wrote about this week is one of the rare exceptions of people who's willing to brank break ranks publicly because of this cult of personality. That Fox News has been so so successful in creating around this president. I think just to show you the the extremes that Fox News is going to the idea that Sean Hannity would call Maria Ivanovich narcissist when you have donald trump the president in the White House. You put his own face on a fake time. Magazine cover I mean that is. That's that's that sort of an example of just how this reality is. The upside down has become their normal. Yeah absolutely Charlie. Charlie Sykes up. How does it as a former owner? If you're still republican but for the Republican Party to now be full on on board with Russian talking points and with Russia's dismantling of our literal power around the world we gave them Syria we have Turkey buying Russian missiles even the weapons that they're bragging were sent to Ukraine by trump and not Obama. They were literally carved down to. They couldn't be used against Russian troops. There only weren't they weren't allowed to be used offensively against Russia. So that wasn't even real. What do you make of of the party at this point if it's not basically basically Russia's To play with I mean it was that is extraordinary. Watching America be humiliated in this way retreat this way and of of course one of the under covered stories of the week was the the president's humiliation at the hands of president. Erta one from Turkey Taylor. This week is as well. So Republicans are all in his. Absolutely right they're all on this cult of personality and I think they feel trapped. And but you you. Since new awkwardness of of of defending the indefensible. And how absurd. The many of the defenses they're offering are but but I do think it was extraordinary watching the degree reader which they work on essentially using Russian talking points and and this guy the way you know maybe there's four percent of Americans four percent of not not a huge number four percent of the Fox News viewers. Who are watching this in real time and you know watching the compelling testimony not necessarily the suspend and given how narrow and small Donald Trump spaces losing even three or four percent is fatal and I and I think the real danger for trump trump is that this reinforces all of the doubts about him? They have everything. All Roads Lead Vladimir Putin all road to Russia all roads lead to his narcissism and the end his in his corruption and that picture begins to come into focus remember. We've only had two days of the hearing so far and they've gone horribly bad for the president that one hundred and we're really almost literally Eric And Jason Get a final thought in Eric as a media analyst. Can you just judge it this week because I thought the Democrats. We're quite calm and reasonable in comparison. But what did you think. Yeah no I thought it was much better. The coverage was much better than Robert Muller hearing a one day event Republicans were able to hijack that spin. It was boring. There were no fireworks. This is an ongoing story. We've just begun and Fox. Is You know Incoherent Scramble Defense Mirrors the White House's in cohere. We're here in scramble defense. So they're in trouble. Should they do a press conference here or there with that because the last one that Donald trump tried to do he told April Ryan African American women to be quiet and I'm not sure he should. What do you think I I think the Democrats Post pressures have gone really really well at the end of the day? The Big One's GonNa be sunland that that's the real wild card in this if the Democrats handle on them properly if the Republicans can't spend that into this whole thing is a conspiracy theory. It's pretty much done. He's probably the only wildcard and this entire Peterman here absolutely last. They don't wind things. What's your pin? It's a wonderful bear that was created by a fabulous artist. And I'm wearing it to send good wishes to one of my twitter followers who's just had open heart surgery but has also spent a lifetime. Protecting bears recently saved a cub who was separated from its mother and on the back as you just saw is is a reel to reel tape player and the words eighteen minutes so in addition to being a bear it represents the eighteen minute gap that the the eighteen minute gap. I Love Ben Watergate. Lor Deal Jason. Julia gave Kerik. Charlie awesome awesome panel. Thank you guys very much it coming up on. Am Stephen Miller is still the white White House. The effort to change that next in our opponents the media and the whole world will soon see as we begin to take further actions that the powers the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be question. Stephen Miller is not only the sycophant in chief. Donald trump up the White House senior policy adviser is also considered the singular force behind trump's hard lied immigration policies and we have new insight into where he may have gotten some of his draconian unian ideas on Tuesday. This other poverty law center published a summary of hundreds of emails. Miller sent to the outright site Breitbart in the run-up to the two thousand sixteen election. The emails include links to white nationalist literature and racist immigration stories asked for comment on the report. A White House official said. This is clearly a form of antisemitism to levy those attacks against Jewish staffer joining me. Now is Michael Edison Hayden of the Southern Southern Poverty Law Center. Michael thank you for being here and I want to just as we talk about this. I WANNA remind people that Steve Bannon who was a White House senior adviser who ran the trump campaign in pain for a time said in twenty sixteen that he wanted to make Breitbart the home of the alt- right. That is what he he said. And we know that all right is just another term for white nationals. If it's sort of a cleaned up version of the term white nationalism. Okay that having been said here is one of the emails that Stephen Miller sent to Breitbart the home of the alright on October. Two Twenty fifteen. He was talking about an Oregon mass shooter who killed nine people he said. The shooter is described griped as mixed race in born in England. Any chance of piecing together that profile together more or will it all be covered up. Here's another email from September of that year. Katie mccue. Who's the person who was sent these emails emails on September first next America we're being invaded and talked D- tolerating it Stephen Miller replies? It's treated as organic no mention of voluntary policy which can be shut off. How many emails are we talking here? Over what period of time. Sure sure I mean it's about nine about nine hundred thirty eight or nine hundred forty in that in that range I believe and they are the first I. E Mail comes in March of Twenty fifteen and the last comes in June of two thousand sixteen. So there's a little bit of overlap for when he joins the trump campaign for the first time which which was in January two thousand sixteen and he comes to the campaign from having worked for Jeff sessions write immediately before that he works for Jeff Sessions. Let me play. The Jeff sessions and his views on immigration are very similar to those of Stephen Miller. Here is jeff sessions on Breitbart News on their Sunday show that they used to have on Sirius. XM which banner used to host this October of two thousand fifteen. Take a listen in seven years. We'll have the highest percentage of Americans non native native born since the founding of the republic for the numbers reach about this high in nineteen twenty four The president and Congress Change the policy and it slowdown immigration significantly within a semi light through the nineteen sixty five and in created eighty two really the the solid middle class of America with a semi lighted immigrants. And it was good for me. Is there a a significance to those years that he's talking about. I mean basically the the basic gist of all these emails that I think everybody who is watching this should should understand is we got rid of racial quota laws in America nine hundred sixty five they were they were signed into law in nineteen twenty eighty four and nineteen twenty four Immigration Act by Calvin Coolidge who Miller repeatedly brings up as an influence in these in these things and also somebody a president who is often put forth as an example of somebody great by American renaissance and Vera White Nationalist Websites Essentially what what. The nine hundred twenty four immigration act is really about. Is Your genetics and Ray Science. Just the belief that non white people are inferior to white people. And what when Miller and sessions officer talking about make America great again. They're talking about returning turning to these laws. That are over close to one hundred years old and you know are are based on science that is at the level of turning lead into gold just absolute rubbish rubbish and truly humanizing stuff is there. Are there emails in this series of about nine hundred that complain about European immigration. Yeah no I mean I mean you know for for White. Nationalist has been a very big thing where they wanNA bring you boost. Oh immigration from boost white immigration decrease non white immigration because they view it as a replacement you remember in Charlottesville of course everybody who was marching. They're chanting you will not replace. Jews will not replace us some variation of that. What they're really talking about? There is the same type of stuff that The shooter El Paso was talking about talking about replacing white people with non white people. It's a paranoid into humanizing vision of the world. Yeah and of course. We know that Richard Spencer who invented the term alt-right who was a white nationalist Even in the book that I wrote talked about the association that Stephen Miller had with Richard Spencer at Duke and now they all sort of shared the same kind of DNA through Breitbart. Which of course is Steve? Bannon let me tell you what Out Central Kazu. Cortez the congressman from New York had to say on Friday about all of this when I echoed the consensus of experts. Historians of experts and political scientists in saying conditions on our board of the mass expansion detention camps qualifies as a concentration camp. Everybody thought it was nuts right until we realized this week. That Stephen Miller is a no joke. Die Hard white nationalist. This is what our our policy has become an order for us to rectify and to begin to heal as a country. He has got to go keeping in mind that this is an week when we also found out that some asylum seekers to the United States had their infant's taken away from them at childbirth birth removed and separated from them infants taking from the mothers who just gave birth to them. And we don't know what happened with those kids. That Stephen Miller is behind the separation policy and the cruelties toward Muslims and towards asylum seekers from non white countries in towards children. Keeping that in mind. What do you make of the White House saying that? It is anti Semitic to accuse him of being a white nationalist. You Work Southern Poverty Law Center is it possible for him to be both jewish-american and also be a white nationalist. Are they right that that makes sense completely lately. Insane if anybody who is ever followed my work or following my reporting the work. I've done a minute. You should ask the Jewish community of Leesburg Virginia about a State Department. C'mon official exposed as a white nationalist who was involved in you know Po- po- publishing anti-semitic propaganda. You ask them how they feel about my work and the work of my colleagues who fight tirelessly against antisemitism but that's besides the point. I mean the things that you're talking about down at the border that cruelty is directly linked to this ideology. Of course I anyone can believe in Eugenics and Ray Science if you believe that non whites are inferior to white people whether you're Jewish or you're Christian or whatever you know it's understandable that somebody somebody who has that kind of you know that kind of worldview might feel. I feel like it's okay to do horrific things to people who they view as being less human. Yeah and he. His policies are speak for themselves. I'm Michael Edison. Hey and I wanted to note for the viewers that there are several. I don't know how many it the number is growing among members of Congress. Who WanNa see? Stephen Miller kicked out of the White House to see him resign or be fired. We shall see if that ever happens. Michael Edison Hayden. Thank you for your time. Thank you enjoy. Thank you up next the latest example. Of how William Bar has utterly politicized the office of the Attorney General Attorney. General William Barr. This week conducted his his latest public. Pledge of allegiance to Donald Trump in a speech that at the Federal Society of Friday Bar said it is Democrats not trump for subverting democracy competing. The president. The fact of the matter is that in waging a scorched earth no-holds-barred war of resistance suit against this administration it is the left that is engaged in the systematic shredding of norms and undermining the rule of law. Perhaps Mr Bar should take a peek at the constitution article two section for some time. There's a little line in there about bribery spoiler alert. It's an explicit 'cause impeaching the president and you Sir are supposed to work for us. The American people not him more joy next in the travesty. Here Jake is that this is testimony. That's continued to happen down in the basement of the Capitol and that's public. You should be. He played the tape not leaked transcripts to you. Clearly we all understand that there's a landscape presents Alinsky of Ukraine would not do anything for Donald Trump because obviously the investigations never happened. I'm asking you to address the substance of what David Holmes said. He heard which was president. Trump telling Gordon Zahn Len. So he's going to do the investigation. Gatien that must alarm you. Well the I can only comment on the portion which is public. which is you know ambassador? Tailored his chomping glitched Ohio Congressman. Mike Turner is one of a handful of Republicans appearing on the other Sunday talk shows to continue parroting Donald Trump's talking points despite all the damning testimony that we've heard so far in the impeachment hearings doing me now to discuss Charlie Pierce writer at large for Esquire mid when Charles Civil Trial Criminal Defense Vince Attorney and columnist for the Washington Post and author of One Nation after trump. I'm going to throw this to you. I E J here is is another of the contenders to try to defend trump on the indefensible Here's Steve Scalise. Who is in house leadership? He went on Fox News and had a at our time here. He doesn't people listen. Didn't him the phone call. And a number of them were immediately upset because what the president said about Breslow the witness but they're rare foreign service officers and these are people who work in the trump administration witnesses. The inspector general said the whistleblower had political motivations when there are a lot of people who work in the trump administration who have very countering views to that and they've not been allowed to come forward I mean Ej they've not been allowed to come forward by Donald Trump. That the people who make make sense of this for me if you can't Ej it's impossible to make sense of the nonsensical but we can make sense of strategy Clearly they know that the facts are bad for them and so what they want to do is turn this entire thing into a fight over partisanship. Isn't that every fact is partisan every witness who tells the truth is partisan what I worry about is they really are to some degree succeeding. In kind of mixing up the news reports all news outlets feel obligated to play quotes both sides even if on a factual question there is only one side that is the factual side and so I think that they are a just trying to keep their people intact back to the trump's base so republican senators feel pressure to vote with him and secondly to the extent that they can confuse people or fuzz things Exhau-. That's as good a win as they can get. And that's what they're going for. You know as an attorney if you were in a court case in one side put all the witnesses on on the other side wouldn't allow witness witnesses to come forward I think is a layperson would assume well the other side doesn't have any witnesses that can help them so they won't let anyone come for. The trump people are using a strategy of saying these are second hand witnesses. But they won't let any of the first witnesses testify it is a it is a strategy of keeping a keep away. That's right and one of the Congressmen I thought during the hearings made a very good point when he said well if you really want to hear from someone who can tell us what happened. Donald Trump is welcome to come and sit right there there and testify. This is incredibly rare. If you have a very good point to make if you believe that you you are on the side of truth what you do is you bring in your witnesses. In fact they ought to be running down to that Congressional hearing and signing up and being the first one online to basically tell what happened. But you don't. I don't see that happening. So the last thing that they are doing now is resorting to what I call misdirection right. So they're throwing all of these arguments and basically saying well you know the president can fire someone. Whenever they want it's misdirection yes? The president can fire someone whenever they want when he fired ambassador. You'RE GONNA Vich but why. Why besmirch her reputation why that extra additional step if he wanted to for longer work for him? That's all he had to do and she made a very good you'd put when she said that but no we had to go the extra step and disrespect her in front of the Ukrainian people almost as though he wanted to undercut the work that she was doing which was anti-corruption work so the misdirection that you see the Republicans engaged in is working to a certain extent but it's incumbent upon the Democrats Democrats to push back on that and say yes. He is allowed to fire her but why did he fire her look at the context within which he fired her and I think that that's how I think Democrats can advance the ball but again focus on the truth another thing. I WANNA point out joy here which I think is very important. I had long advocated for public impeachment hearings. And and here's why the one thing that is really clear from these last two days of hearings. Is that the conspiracy theories that are often trumpeted and aw lack of a better word and parroted throughout right wing media and Fox News do not hold a candle cannot withstand the truth when they are tested did in public. They look absolutely ridiculous. How many times was Ivanovich asked whether the Ukrainians were perhaps behind undermining the two thousand sixteen election? She's like our intelligence agencies have already determined that it was Russia that was behind the two thousand sixteen election nonsense so it it doesn't make any sense and when you see it in public and when you ask the questions these conspiracies do not hold any water. Yeah Charlie I think there's also a casting problem for the Republicans you know. They've got Devon Nunez with his. I call it the we never really landed on the moon. The moon is made of cheese. You can't land on it conspiracy spiracy theory guy. You've got Jim Jordan. Who's got some home problems you need to go and deal with the Osu issue and you've got missed Vanik from New York whose opponent is now raised a half a million dollars including from George Conway because of her antics and Shenanigans that she's pulled verses Ambassador Taylor with that beautiful deep voice his Gravitas Mr Bush and you had a little SAS to him but he was so credible and Ms Yvonna Vici was outstanding and Adam Schiff who was unflappable? You are not recognized you are not recognized the casting is not even even on both sides no and I think to expand I first of all. I think the one thing we have to understand about this is this particular part of the scandal that is the trump administration because there really is nothing but scandal to it this particular chump. That they're examining isn't that hard to understand chance right. The reason that the investigations didn't happen was because the whistle blower blew the whistle. That's why didn't happen. Alinsky was ready to do that. As as all subsequent reporting has proven. Okay I mean compared to I don't know Iran Contra. This is a game of color forms. I mean this is easy. This is an extremely easy and that having been said watching I like to expand on something said watching the Republicans. Try to make a case as out of this. You know you know fantasy island if they've created a heroes and villains. They have a very simple argument. They can make yes yes he did it. No it's not impeachable. Got Is an incredibly simple argument to make and it will work it will give any nervous. Republicans away out but they seem incapable of resorting to it. And that's something I don't understand. Yeah before I go because I know you write a lot about religion. I WANNA to give you a chance to just respond very quickly to what William Bar said in that speech that he gave this week. Any response on that and him saying that it's the Democrats that are subverting democracy and placing himself in that position of being Donald Trump's public defender as well first of all. I want to thank Charlie for making me. Think about color forms which I haven't thought about in long time. There is a real fight going on among religious people and you can go back to an earlier speech that bar gave trying to cast passed all liberals as secularists radicals who were trying to push back against traditionalist. That's trump's sort sort of base. He's talking to the people who think all liberals are anti religion and then everything falls into place for bar. An attorney general shouldn't be talking. Wipe that Charlie. EJ ARE GONNA stay with US and up next. My guests are going to tell me these fabulous people will tell me and you who won the week okay. We have kept waiting long enough. It is finally time to fight Charlie mid win and E. J. Dion who won the week civil servants one the week civil servants across the entire government including diplomats who serve their country no matter who is president. Obviously you looked at Maria. Von Vici looked William Taylor alert. George Kent I almost wore a bow tie in honor of George can't accept that I haven't figured out how to tie one. These are people who serve year in year out. They try to carry out a president's policy no matter what but we'll stand up against the president when they really have to and these are folks who said there just is something wrong with the president subverting the national interest for his own selfish purposes conservatives. Talk about the deep state or the right wing talks about the deep state. These are people with deep expertise deep ethical commitments and a deep commitment to public service. And and thank God they're there. Yeah here here. I thought they were all out standing. That is an excellent choice mid when the pressure is on yes. You've got a adorable pink jacket jacket often not an advantage in this competition sister. You have beat what e j just put out there mid win. Who won the week? Well I I'll pick one person then. That person is Marie Ivanovich. Her testimony. I thought was just so amazing. One I think it basically showed us and underscores what really make America great and what makes America great is that we have people like her who are willing to serve under many dangerous conditions that she outlined and and really just put their heads down and do the work uphold the constitution uphold the rule of law and she was on flammable. And I also think it's interesting as a woman I and who gave this testimony right. We often hear that women are too emotional and it's why they shouldn't be in positions of leadership but despite what she went through despite being disrespected did by this president and in real time she was intimidated and I thought it was excellent for Adam Schiff to point that out. She didn't cry she didn't break down. Unlike what we saw from. Brad Kavanagh and Lindsey Graham and so many other men who have testified. They couldn't hold. They could basically perform under pressure. She could but I think what was amazing about her. Is she showed us. How when you put in thirty three years of work thirty three years of service and thirty three years of sacrifice you care about your work and you care about your reputation you show up when you are subpoenaed and you answer the questions? She wasn't scared. I I love she. Let let's so let's so what I thought was one of the best moments It was the end of her testimony. Here's here's have. The testimony ended. Let's do it the pointing out the big difference. Between the way she performed in the way she comported herself Brett Cavanaugh who cried and screamed made a spectacle of himself. The idea that women are too emotional. Ridiculous Cavenaugh cavenaugh versus Uganda. Mitch not even close. The Presser is now on. I feel bad for Charlie. Normally this is the point where I have pity for Jason Johnson. That's usually what happens in the WHO won the week but now my videos. It's all on you Charlie peers. How do you beat these two incredible answers? Charlie whom on the week. Well I've relieved the pressure because I I understood that I was competing painting in the Non Yovany Rich Division Maria Maria von average one every week. Okay so I just put all I put all of that. Good stuff aside. I WANNA I WANNA nominate for personal one that week. An inmate in an Iowa. Prison named Benjamin Schreiber. Now Benjamin Schreiber just lost lost an appeal and I think it was. We lost an opportunity to debate some very serious issues when Ben Schreiber losses appeal. Now Penn travers a bad dude. He killed the guy with an axe sandal. Can't do that stuff okay. So he's in. He's serving his life term and he gets rushed to the hospital in septic shock and he expires expires. undertreatment and they resuscitated him. Contrary to his express wishes in a living will and he brought the case to court that because he had died he had served his life sentence and that we were resuscitated. It was on them not on him. They didn't want he was already dead. And the Appeals Court which is made up of some really terrible spoilsports. Wouldn't even listen to him. I bench reiver's pipers case deserved full examination in the light of day on the on the concept of a life sentence begins. Yeah so takes credit even even in even in losing one the week he won the week and he's still he's still with us in person in the flash well. Those are three good answers. We are at a time. So I'm just GONNA GONNA play my sound bite for the real person who won the week. All of you guys are right. But I'm writer and here is the winner of the week. Adam Schiff. Thank you to Charlie mid did win and EJ. Thank you all and here. Is Adam Schiff winning the week. You'll to you Mr Phonic. Thank you Mr Nunez ambassador. Yvonna Vich h thank you for being gentlewoman was suspend. What does the interruption for this time? It's our time the gentlewoman was suspend. You're not recognized Mr Nunez you or coastal I just is recognized under the House Resin Sixteen or not allowed to yield time except the minority ranking member yielded another member of Congress. It was not accurate. Your Gagging Accu New York. That is our show for today thanks so much for watching. Am Job back neck Saturday ten am eastern new for meet the press the Chuck Todd uncast. It's an insider's take on politics. The twenty twenty election and more candid conversations with some of my favorite reporters about things. We usually discuss off camera. Listen for free wherever you get your podcast.

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