18 Burst results for "Robin Diangelo"

"robin diangelo" Discussed on On Being with Krista Tippett

On Being with Krista Tippett

11:28 min | Last month

"robin diangelo" Discussed on On Being with Krista Tippett

"Okay. I would I. would actually like to do like for the next fifteen minutes. Is. Our as we, as we wind down we could certainly keep talking for a few days. is. So you know years ago I interviewed John Lewis in Montgomery Alabama. Was One of the most incredible experiences of my life and. Things John Lewis talks about. About the civil rights movement of the Nineteen Sixty S. Well, the nineteen fifties, and the nineteen sixties and How they? Kind of disciplined. That they brought the spiritual and tactical discipline, and they brought. Was it while you had to be strategic and tactical and fight the fights and you know. Do the do the actions You also had to. You had to know in your mind the world that you wanted to create. And you and he said you had to live as if. So you are working with what is. and. You are applying your creativity and the power of human imagination and courage to. To holding to that. That world you are want to be walking towards and helping walking with others towards so. I so I I. Mean I think. Maybe I'll start with you and I. What what is? What is that? What is that as if beyond white for Jill dougherty as the norm and as a determinant driving force and in our culture, our society? In some ways I don't know what it would look like right. There's never been a moment outside of it in in my in my life, and certainly in the last several hundred years, so it's it's hard to imagine And I can offer. Of course you know our our outcomes would be different I love the way Abram. Kindy says when you look at the difference in outcomes, there's only two explanations. Black people are inferior. or racism. but what I can tell you, so I say that because policies literally have to change. That's not my skill. My skill set as an educator. I WANNA. Help you see it. And feel it in a way that you can't not see it anymore. It anymore and so that you have to do something right. You can't go to bed tonight. NBA at peace with yourself If you can't answer the question. What did I do today? That was anti-racist. But I can say that as a result of this work. I do less harm. And that that is not small, that less harm could be one more hour on res- most life. That, he didn't take my nonsense home. And have to decide all night whether it was worth it. To try to talk to me about it or whether he risked getting worse or whether he should just swallow it. Less harm is not a small thing. Yes! I would love to see the abolishment of prisons and punitive justice. The the torture that our criminal system inflicts upon Black Bodies. Is I can. I can hardly bear it. you know we would have a completely different transformed. Society and that's just one example. One system so those are just three pieces that I think of when you asked me I mean I interviewed him Jason Relatives Either, one of you know him. He's the he's the national ambassador for. Young Adult Literature, the Library of, but he's the person who from Kindy A. Right the why version? Of stamped. And he's extraordinary, young and really wonderful. He kept using the word. Because feels the word resilient is important, but it's a little over us like a lot like what we do with a lot of good words, and he gave us sort fortitude. Wants to do as fortify, young people, specifically young black people, and he said and so you know. Ford of for resilience is about courage in the recovery and four and fortitude is about courage. Through the stress like in the moment of the stress and so again I kind of want to press you robin again like what would white fortitude look like as opposed to white fragility. To white fortitude will, the word keeps coming up to me. Is Repair Right? We would have a framework that would allow us to repair, and the the framework is causing white. Fragility is a refusal. To repair a refusal to see our feel right, some defensiveness is natural response when you know given direct feedback about something like the woman in the store that business shared a it's. It's defensiveness that functions to refuse to understand or stretch or go deeper right that that is absolutely certain that they know all they need to do, and I'm just going to say it. Many of your listeners right now are feeling that they already have the answer, and they know all they need to know and you know here is the correct response so so? It would be the yeah, the the fortitude to get to a place of repair. What would it take out I'll never forget asking a group. The I asked the black people in the group. What would it be like if you could just go there with us? Give us that feedback. Tell US talk to us. And we received it with grace we reflected, and we sought to change our behavior and I'll never forget him about black men racist. Hanan said it would be revolutionary. Just I mean just notice that like. That's how big of. A whole we are. That's a revolution. We've received that with grace reflecting seek to to repair. But. It's actually not that tall and order. But it is a very tall order I'd say it's to and from the current paradigm. Right. That says it has to be intentional to count. So resume. Let's say. We're walking along the long arc of the moral universe. What is that? What is that as if? You WanNa, be walking. Into and you want your grandchildren to your. the first thing that comes to my mind is The black women can. be in their bitch sleeping and not have to worry about somebody kicking enduring and put an eight bullets in them. That that our schools are such that they're organized around the care of Black Children's bodies and the need that they have as opposed to trying to fit them inside of. Something that is not working for them, and there was never designed for them. You know the system is not broken is does is it was designed sways doing exactly what it should do so for me. The opposite is what I would need to see The opposite is our key if something happens. That Our people can be in a situation where they can be redeemed, and so if they go to do something. And he heard somebody or something like that and they are in prison. which is not necessarily cases you don't necessarily have to do something, and if you're in a black body in end up in prison, that is not a prerequisite. But if you are then that prison is actually a school. With a prison has things in it that will actually allow you to to not just sit and fester, but grow and prosper, and so for me if I'm thinking. My children are living in a world that I would design. It would be that they were not free of strife or not free of of of things happening because. Difficult things can happen and you can be better through them, but I'm talking about is the structural thing that makes it so that my life is not worthy I would like for that to to be different in change and so if I'm looking at A. As my as The ancestor said if I'm looking at you. Know the world as I would like it. That's where it would start for me. To say both of your answer, really modest. Whatever you'd like. It's hard, and it says something, but it's hard to imagine like that world. You'd really really want to live in as opposed to a world. That's just free of. Brutality shouldn't be there. The I need that I. Anything that's. A you'd want to anybody WANNA. Be Wants to add or something we didn't talk about. That feels really important in name right now that you want to get out. For. Worn out. Okay well then. That's a good reason to stop. Robin her you. Know, and I would not want the last word. Yeah. I think the last word was quite beautiful. Yes, it was an I. Don't I? Don't want you to be worn out. Thank you both so much. I think I do have one thing. I want to say Chris. I just I need to say this and I think Robin probably bills the same way but you know This this this platform that you're allowing us to talk on I just I. Do want to say you know you got gotta during a whole lot of people that would let us talk to. They white people. They white folks. I. Mean You got to you you the the in.

Robin John Lewis Montgomery Alabama NBA Black Children Hanan Jill dougherty Kindy Jason Relatives Adult Literature Chris
"robin diangelo" Discussed on On Being with Krista Tippett

On Being with Krista Tippett

09:26 min | Last month

"robin diangelo" Discussed on On Being with Krista Tippett

"And. We have no problem with that. We just we just keep it moving. You know we keep. We don't the idea that we genocide people. Right, that's really uncomfortable to talk about, but it is the truth, the idea that we that this country enslaved people and every in everything that that means that that the white body had unfettered access to my body for most of our history. Think about that. For most of our history, there is nothing about my body that the white body did not have access to. And so that creates a problem for white folks, because White folks expect by deference, and when I don't give my difference why folks get uncomfortable. Right and so and so weit comfort trumps my liberation so when I hear why folks talk about fatigue. I'm. What? What is your malfunction foot, teague? We we've. Compound fatigue by four and five hundred, years. I just did a thing recently to just to let you know the scope of this. I did a thing recently I talked to Robin about this I. Did it thing recently where? I got a call from a good friend of mine who who know I've known for Twenty Twenty thirty years. Police officer Actually you know upper-echelon police and he called me say man I need you i. said what's going on. He said I got some people up at a church. Some some some black officers up at a church and we just we gotta talk to Somebody Man I. Need you and I said okay, and so I got in my car went up there and go in, and you have these you know big. Men and in some. Women in there, and the all police, officers, and all black, and you you walk in and looking. There is in the all are in pain and the all hurt Annie. All are sandwiched between their family telling them look. What you doing, you need to give your badge. Look at what they're doing. And they sandwiched between Wanting to you know they they've given their time to people in the community to some people in community develop relationships in communities looking. And name they have to go to work. With their white? Co Workers! In a white co workers are saying things like. That wasn't really murder. And their white co workers are saying. Would you think about it? And soon as they hear those words, dread wells up in their belly, and they don't know where to go. And they're carrying this and they're trying to do it individually carrying it, but once we got in a room together. They started talking and he started understanding that they need each other to deal with the communal grief and the communal pain right that the individual pain in the individual of what they're experiencing is not really individual. It is both individual and communal, so you better have a communal way of managing, and so what I'm trying to say in all of that is that when white people say that they're tire. Black people are no matter what vocation is is dealing. We're dealing with this brutality in his plane that in two months in three months in four months I'm not going to see you doing anything, so pardon me if I don't give you, Kudos. Will you take an e? Pardon me if I don't give you Kudos when you re lot arm-in-arm between me and the police I don't care. Are you going to hold that and bill culture for the next three years for the next ten years? Are you going to change literally change your body. By going through it. And growing up, or are you just going to put the signs back on the law? Right right. you know one of the things? Of Right now. Is That It's stress it's it's. It's stressful and uncomfortable for white people to hear. Generalizations about white people? Do you know what I'm. Here. to, see my email. You so. And so I'm going to continue in that vein. Both of you have particularly called out, and this is also like doubly uncomfortable white progressives. I just you know I think one of the things you said to me resume when we spoke. You know. Not, being able to imagine that we'd be in lockdown a month later on But this this this feels like one of the things one of the realities that has surfaced that that there's work. For White people that they have to do among themselves and that, in fact it has, there has been a re wounding that has happened. In these year early years of the invention of diversity equity and inclusion of and doing it often in workplaces, getting everybody in a room in acting like we can talk about this together. so I would like to talk a little bit about About that about the the white. The work that white people need to do on themselves, and among with each other and I don't think there's I don't think people have a sense of. Well? It's just an it's a new idea. It would actually have sounded like a racist right like that's the irony than if you would have said something like that a couple of months ago. It might have sounded like it was reversing. I'm GonNa Live Robert Blake. Robert Blake. I actually am getting to where I do think that we should not be having these conversations together until we've done a fair amount of our own personal work as white people because we cause so much wounding in these conversations. And our consciousness is you know. You can get through graduate school in this country without ever discussing systemic racism right, so we just. Have a pretty low critical awareness, and we go into these dialogues, and we 'cause a lot of harm. But when you suggest. You know we're going to separate by race. Oh really funny thing happens. Like white people freak out. Right like what what how I learn about race if Doesn't tell me What do you mean you know all of that? And and what I WANNA point out is that most white people live their lives in segregation? Moose white people will go cradle to grave. With few, if any, authentic relationships with black people. With. No sense what so ever that anything of value is missing from their lives, and if we're going to be really honest, we will measure the absence of black people as the criteria for the value of our neighborhoods in our schools. I I. I was never meant to know our love. Rasma home I was meant to live my life. Not knowing are loving him. Tolerate him smile Adam, be nice to him. Yes, but no, our love him absolutely not and. Yet for a brief contrived exercise explicitly right the moment we say okay now. We're going to separate by race. In order to work on racism. People become unglued right, so it's like as long as it just happens. It just happens that I grew up in an all white neighborhood. Still live in an all white neighborhood. Go to mostly white school. Send my kids to mostly white schools and talk about those neighborhoods at schools in glowing terms as good right I heard. You say that somewhere I. Mean just that that that. We save at a neighborhood or a school. There's. All white or almost all white. Is a good neighborhood or good school. The an I as a good white progressive. I'm never gonNA say the N. Word. but that for me is the most powerful message of all the the most powerful message of white superiority. White supremacy is that we could and do call white segregation. Good. That's a really deep message. you know in February? We're going to talk about the tragedy of. Segregation on blacks in the Jim Crow South and then in two thousand twenty..

white school Twenty Twenty Robert Blake officer Co Workers teague murder Robin Annie Adam
"robin diangelo" Discussed on On Being with Krista Tippett

On Being with Krista Tippett

11:44 min | Last month

"robin diangelo" Discussed on On Being with Krista Tippett

"The white progressive is smiling. But there's a knife in my back. That all lands with great force on brother, George, Floyd's body. The thing I think about brother George that I that I've thought about is that he was such an ordinary man. Like one of the things that I've. been doing that. I have not watched the video I. Have Not watched that video all the way through because I can't but would I have done? Is I've taken a video or now pulled out? Of. Pull George out of the frame and only focused on children. And looked at his face all for that whole eight nine minutes just look at his face, and when you watch his face, you see such sureness. That, the whole system is behind him. That nothing is going to happen that he is doing his job and he's not even doing it to a human. Being White people got a work that out amongst themselves. They have to work out that that pus. Amongst themselves they have to. figure out when all that stuff comes up. When you're in a room, would each other? They have to work that out and that takes. Time because it takes, it takes people being intimate with each other, not intimacy like mother's milk, but intimacy like I am being exposed to you and we are going to move through this to develop something and grow up, but white people are not even willing to acknowledge that there's an infection. I! I think also this matter of white people. All the work we have to do together. This work has to happen for the world to change I. I worry about. The culture we've created the. The Public Discourse Culture we've created in recent years. That kind of got back grounded during the covert. Early Period is kind of now back that that we don't. We don't have public space where. where it is reasonable to invite people to confess right to change to acknowledge shortcomings. Or to let other people do that and I feel like that's a space that we have to create, but I guess that's really. The white people work among themselves to happen. You have to create you right. It doesn't exist in anti in embodied anti-racist culture and practice doesn't exist, and now you have to create it not only not not for me. But, so you don't pass this infection down to your children. Yeah and A book group over a glass of wine. Mean this is. At this point, anybody listening, but he white listening might be feeling. Oh my God! I can't get this right and that is true. You cannot get disrupted like a piece of it is. Is being in that? Settling. Place of not knowing right the debt, deep deep humility, and even that confession. Can, be problematic right, it can be It can range from Joseph kind of form of Masochism to a form of well. I feel bad enough that you can see that I'm actually good. And so that also. I'm talking about her. With Repentance Ed. You'd stop in your tracks and. Different Direction. Get something that had to put that out there because because we. We also have to figure out how to do that work in accountable ways. I am a little nervous about like how many people now are like oh? I read your book and now. I WANNA start a book steadier I. WanNa Start a workshop and you know. It takes years of experience and study and struggle and mistake, making and trust building to hold a group. Around race in really hold that group and and push them and help them go or where they need to go in ways that are constructive it takes takes a lot of experience so so we just have to also think you know this isn't the May format to give the answer to accountability, but we need to be asking ourselves that. But somehow we need accountability. That actually celebrates change because right now. We just have yelling at each other. And putting other people down drove my wife Oh. Yeah, I'VE BEEN WHITE FOLKS, yeah! One thing you know using the word week I'm really trying to actually stop my talk or question it every time I do and it's hard, but you're right. Yes, I mean white people. Yeah, I mean I. Usually just start by saying when I say we I'm talking to my fellow white people yeah. So you know years ago. I interviewed John Lewis in Montgomery Alabama. which was one of the most incredible experiences of my life and? One of the things. John Lewis Talks about. About the civil rights movement of the nineteen fifties and the nineteen sixties and The kind of disciplines. That they brought the spiritual and tactical discipline and they brought. was that while you had to be strategic and tactical and fight the fights and do the actions You also had to know in your mind the world that you wanted to create. And you and he said you had to live as if. So you are working with what is. And you are applying your creativity and the power of human imagination and courage to. To holding to that that world, you are WANNA. Be Walking towards and helping walking with others towards so. So I I. Think Maybe I'll start with you Ivan I. What is that as if beyond white fragility as the norm and as a determinant driving force and in our culture, our society? Will, the word keeps coming up to me. Is Repair right did we would have a framework that would allow us to repair and the the framework that is causing white. Fragility is a refusal. To, repair a refusal to see or feel right, some defensiveness is natural response when given direct feedback about something like it's, it's defensiveness that functions to refuse to understand or stretch or go deeper right that that is absolutely certain that they know all they need to do. And I'm just going to say many of your listeners right now are feeling that they already have the answer, and they know all they need to know, and here is the correct response so so. It would be the yeah, the the fortitude to get to a place of repair. What would it take out? I'll never forget asking a group. The I asked the black people in the group. What would it be like if you could just go there with us? Give us that feedback. Tell US talk to us. And we received it with grace we reflected, and we sought to change our behavior, and I'll never forget him about blackman racists. Hand had said it would be revolutionary. Just I mean just notice that like that's a revolution. We would receive that with grace reflecting seek to to repair. But it's actually not that tall and order. But, it is a very tall order I'd say it's too tall and from the current paradigm. Right. That says it has to be intentional to count. So resume. Let's say. We're walking along the long arc of the moral universe. What is that? What is that as if? You WanNa. Be, walking. Into and you want your grandchildren to clear heretic. The first thing that comes to my mind is The black women can. be in their bed, sleeping and not have to worry about somebody kicking Dorian and put eight bullets in them. that. that our. Are such that they're organized around the care of Black Children's bodies, and the need that they have as opposed post trying to fit them inside of something that is not working for them, and there was never designed for them. You know the system is not broken is designed. Is it was designed as as doing exactly what it should do so for me? The opposite is what I would need to see. The opposite is if something happens. that. Our people can be in a situation where they can be redeemed so if they go to do something in a hurt, somebody or something like that and they are in prison, which is not the necessarily cases you don't necessarily have to do something, and if you're in a black body in end up in prison, that is not a prerequisite. But if you are then that prison is actually a school. With their prison has things in it that will actually allow you to to not just sit and fester, but grow and prosper, and so for me if I'm thinking. My children are living in a world that I would design. It would be that they were not free of strife or not free of of things happening because difficult things can happen in you can. Can Be bettered through them, but I'm talking about is the structural thing that makes it so that my life is not worthy I would like for that to be different in change, and so if I'm looking at a as my as you said, the ancestor said if I'm looking at you, know the world as I would like it. That's where it would start for me. To say both of your answers really modest. Whatever you like. It's hard, and it says something, but it's hard to imagine that world. You'd really really want to live in as opposed to a world. That's just free of. Brutality that shouldn't be there in the first place. Just need that I. Anything that's neither wannabe wants to add or something. We didn't talk about a feels really important in name right now that you want to get out. and. Victis for? Worn out. Okay, okay well then. That's a good reason to stop..

George John Lewis Black Children Floyd Joseph Ivan I. blackman Montgomery Alabama. Dorian Hand
"robin diangelo" Discussed on On Being with Krista Tippett

On Being with Krista Tippett

09:57 min | Last month

"robin diangelo" Discussed on On Being with Krista Tippett

"I'm Krista Tippett, and this is on being today with an electric conversation between Robin Dangelo perhaps the foremost contemporary voice on grappling with Whiteness and resume Menachem. The therapist and trauma specialist who has clarified new insight into racism and racial trauma as they locked in our bodies. Robin is based in Seattle, resume is based in Minneapolis where he's in esteemed counsellor and justice coach at the heart of the city is grappling with pain and ways to move forward. One of the things. I'm aware of right now. Is that is stressful and uncomfortable for white people. To hear. Generalizations about white people. And so I'm going to continue in that vein. You know both of you. Have particularly called out, and this is also like w uncomfortable white progressives. You know I think one of the things you said to me resume when we spoke. Not being able to imagine that we'd be in lockdown a month later and on and on This feels like one of the things one of the realities that has surfaced that that there's work. For. White people that they have to do among themselves and that, in fact there has been a re wounding that has happened. In these year, early years of the invention of diversity equity and inclusion of and doing it often in workplaces, getting everybody in a room and acting like we can talk about this together. so I would like to talk a little bit about. About that about the work that white people need to do on themselves, and with each other and I, don't think people have a sense of. Well, it's just. It's a new idea. It would actually have sounded alike a racist idea. Right like that's the irony. If you would have, said something like that a couple of months ago. It might have sounded like it was reversing. Fail, I'm GONNA live Robert. Robert Fleas. I actually am getting to where I do think that we should not be having these conversations together until we've done a fair amount of our own personal work, as white people because we cause so much wounding in these conversations. And our consciousness. Be, we. Can Get through graduate school in this country without ever discussing systemic racism right, so we just. Have a pretty low critical awareness, and we go into these dialogues, and we 'cause a lot of harm. But when you suggest A. Separate by race, a really funny thing happens. Like white people freak out. Right like what how I learn about race, if That doesn't tell me. What do you mean you know all of that? And what I WANNA point out is that most white people live their lives in segregation? Most white people will go cradle to grave. With few, if any authentic relationships with black people with no sense, whatsoever that anything of value is missing from their lives, and if we're going to be really honest, we will measure the absence of black people as the criteria for the value of our neighborhoods in our schools. I was never meant to know our love Rasma. I was meant to live my life. Knowing are loving him. Tolerate him smile out of be nice to him. Yes, but no. Our love him absolutely not. and. Yet for a brief contrived exercise explicitly right the moment we say okay now we're gonNA separate by race. In order to work on racism, white people become unglued right, so it's like as long as it just happens. It just happens that. I grew up in an all white neighborhood. Still live in an all white neighborhood. Go to mostly white school. Send my kids to mostly white schools and talk about those neighborhoods schools in glowing terms as good right. You've I heard. You say that somewhere just that that that. Can we say that a neighborhood school? Is All white or almost all white? Is a good neighborhood or good school. See the I I s a good white progressive. I'm never going to say the N. word. but that for me is the most powerful message of all the M- the most powerful message of white superiority. White supremacy is that we could do call white segregation. Good. That's a really deep message. you know we in? February, we're going to talk about the tragedy of you know segregation on blacks in the Jim Crow South and then in twenty twenty. We're going to talk in glowing terms about how you know how good our neighborhood is So it's it's very messages that we have to look at and as long as we define racist as you know. The N. Word and the White Hood and the meanness were not going to see what we contributed daily and let me just ask Rasma would you rather have a Richard Spencer in your face or a white progressive? None of them. Out of. Have Space for any either wanted them foods, but so so. What I would say is I would rather have somebody that I know is working for three years three to ten years working with other white people on their stuff. I can tolerate that I can deal with that. I can even support that right, but your declaration and don't really mean anything that idea. The idea that that people can come up to me and ask me. What should I do when we have? Google is just crazy on its face. and. That's that's one of the things that that I. Really believe is why White folks got to do this themselves. Because why for was don't even don't even know we're not even speaking. The same embodied language. We're not even speaking the same verbal language we don't. We don't see the world in the same way, so we are not saying the same things. We are not vibe in the same things and so white people coming up in just saying this is what I wanna do or this is. This is what I think. You don't even realize that the language that you're speaking is wounding. It is brutal and always has been, and I don't care who I don't care. How many babies you didn't have with a black man or black woman, or or how many times you you march where my did none of that matters. You have to develop culture. So whereas my this is such, a critical point, and I'm always like why. I want people to hear this point, so when white people tell you they're not racist. That actually isn't communicating to note there's. They're actually. Actually. Saying the exact opposite and the other piece that they're saying when when as it so so I've talked plate with this idea of devout racist in complicit races. There's no such thing as a non-racist either you are. You are destroying this in looking to dismantle this thing at his current exists, and you're working towards. You're working towards developing culture around, or you're either devout or or complicit in so for me win. White people say these things that they think are supportive, because they speak a different language than I do as a different embody language of different verbal language. What they're telling me is you are not safe. Seeing I think a lot of white people listen to her like what why? Why? In in so he, so if I may. I know you will check me if I miss this. When we say that what we're saying is. We don't understand what racism is. We don't understand what it means to be white. The, other side of that is when we go to. Resume Tell me about racist. And then he, in which is basically open your chest. Open your guts. You know, be vulnerable. Show yourself I'm not gonNA show myself I'm disconnected to receive. extractive, but I'm only gonNA. receive what I agree with. And so these are all the reasons why you know black people to slammed. Don't want to deal with US until we get a little further along, so we don't say things like I'm not racist and let me just really clear. As a result of being raised in this society as a white person, I'm racist. I have a racist worldview. There's no way I. Don't have a racist worldview because it's embedded in everything now means I have racist assumptions of behaviors and investments, and it's liberating to start from that premise. And then just get to work trying to figure out how it's manifesting and interrupt that rather than insistence that that we could be untouched by the were swimming. I mean there's so many black people have said to me. Yes, give me the up front in your face. Racist because I I know where they're coming from I. Know How to protect myself..

white school White Hood Robin Dangelo Krista Tippett Minneapolis Seattle US Google Robert Fleas Rasma Richard Spencer
"robin diangelo" Discussed on On Being with Krista Tippett

On Being with Krista Tippett

07:30 min | Last month

"robin diangelo" Discussed on On Being with Krista Tippett

"I feel like in both of your work. In this is not enough right, it's always this isn't even an answer to the question of how to again, but but there is a necessity and virtue. Of White people of me letting myself be uncomfortable. With at the same time think about the language violence, so many white people use to describe that discomfort, so we say things like well. I'M NOT GONNA. Have that conversation because I? Don't want to be attacked. Attacked Right? That's you know we're and we're only talking about some. You know chosen moment of discomfort in a conversation, and what a perversion of the true direction of violence. You know that we've been perpetrating or in our name for hundreds of years. And that leads to this idea about allies. So I don't I, do not call myself an ally. I do not even say an anti-racist I will say. I'm involved in answering racist work. But it's really for. US to decide. If in any given moment I'm actually behaving in allied are anti-racist ways and notice that in any given moment. It's not like a fixed status, and I'm the least qualified to make that determination because. I haven't vestments in this system. That I don't even know I have like I can't really trust myself. So I have to have accountability of setup around me. You know I i. WanNa keep going with all this I. do before we go much farther wanted to ask each of you. How you're thinking about. What has just happened in twenty twenty. You know the pandemic upon the pandemic or the awakening to the ratio pandemic that had been with us. But I want I. Just wonder how you how you've understood what what has happened that maybe significant, that may be new from what you've already been attending to in your life and work. In this spring of Twenty, twenty. So have been taken to calling a friend of mine had a a instagram picture up in you had a mask on and on a mask, and said I'm still dealing with covid. Sixteen Nineteen, not just cove at nineteen. And that's true for me. The weathering effects of white by supremacy has affected. My very skeletal structure has affected. My respiratory system has effected. My cardiovascular system has affected. My Mama's cardiovascular's her mother's CA. I mean the the effects of racialism white supremacy in the weathering effects of it is Y. Cove in one thousand nine has run rampant through my communities in run rampant through the east African Community is because. One of the things is that the systems have tinder is D-. Our physical systems to the point to where Kovic gist kind of set up shop in in red shop, because our bodies were already weathered and so. That in addition to covert and in addition to sister Brianna. Taylor getting murdered baragan murdered brother floyd in countless before in countless sense Dan. This is I just have to say that This is this is brutal. This is brutality and viciousness at a level that when white folks and allies say that their allies in what can we do in? You think you're being helpful. Or what should I do now? And you think you're being helpful. There is such brutality to your words that you know many times you know. I can't fool with white folks I. I can't I can't be around. You a need you to leave me alone a need you. You know to to not ask me what my opinion is. Of A black man, getting murdered with with no regard and so for me, this idea about allies ship really does. Fall into the level of of fall into the place of of whether or not white people have the capacity to stop what I call declarations of independence. Declarations of I'm not racist. Declarations of on ally declarations that I'm a good individual white person, and they're going to have to start really beginning to figure out how to build culture around abolishing white supremacy. Anything other than that for me really is in. You've heard me say this before. Really is performance art. It is not it is not real if you're not gonNA be with other white bodies for three to ten years grinding on specifically about race and specifically about. About the things that show up when white bodies get together to build culture, then then I can't fool which you I'm not. I'M NOT I'm not interested in your credentialing, or your your virtue signaling. It means nothing to me because I. Know that when I go home, and my son is getting ready to go and get in the car and drive off that my stomach feels like is going to fall out that my the when I watched. My wife have to interact with these organizations in these structures that are relying are i. know that that's going to continue for me. Even when you tell me you're an ally. I just want like. Offer to white listeners if you're if you're feeling frustrated, like just watch. What's coming up for you as you as you hear Rosas? Hopelessness, and and you start to have feelings, and some of them may be anger right like. Why are you not giving me hope? Why are you not making me feel better? What am I supposed to do? Just notice all of that. It's a different way of breaking through the apathy of Whiteness, and it's not going to be kind of tied up in a bow in much less. Give me home. Right. It's a kind of let's break through. How deep the? The apathy is and use your umbrage if you're feeling it too to motivate you to prove him wrong. Show him that you can be trusted that we can be trusted. But just but hope is such a tool in a way of whiteness. And we've we've dangled that tool in front of black people for four hundred years and we keep. Not. You know not showing up in in the long term..

US Y. Cove east African Community Brianna Kovic Wan Rosas Taylor Dan floyd baragan
"robin diangelo" Discussed on On Being with Krista Tippett

On Being with Krista Tippett

05:26 min | Last month

"robin diangelo" Discussed on On Being with Krista Tippett

"Asked an lot right now. You know white people, saying which it just confirms what you're saying. How did I not see this and you've said We don't see it and we do see it, but we can't admit we see it. That this, this creates an irrationality. We're so invested in not seen for so many reasons. Yeah, it's really weird I'm GONNA. Imagine you tell me Kristof? You can relate on the one hand. We really don't know right. We are just oblivious to this and we're shocked when we when we finally see it and on the other hand. Yeah, we know we know I know you know. Both those things are actually simultaneous -ly true or real. And and then you add that, you can't admit that you know. And it makes us yeah fairly irrational. You can add a lot of other things, too. Like internalized superiority that we can't admit to, and you know et Cetera or right, I think certainly it penetrates in moments. And then it gets filed away. or You talk yourself out of you know I. Think for me. It would be I can't do anything about this. Like I can't let 'em the magnitude of this. So. You know there's there's a really interesting thing number of experiences that I've had since. Brother George Floyd was murdered. and one of them is having Friends white friends that I that I care for way friends that I love and and and family members One of the things that has been this kinda thing that everybody's starting to say now is I'm an ally why folks love telling you that they're an ally, and and I had an interesting conversation with a good friend of mine This is somebody who I've known for a long time, and he told me he said man. I I didn't. Understand, how just oblivious to the stuff that I? Was He said I've been your friend longtime and he said and I'm still Kinda like not understanding. He said he said one thing happened. That just. crystallize for me and he said that he was. The neighborhood. Eddie belong to his very liberal right. They're not the devout races. They're complicit racist. Right the very liberal. They you know have black lives matters in their. Yard and he said one of the interesting things that happened was that. When all it is went down. All of a sudden, a black lives matter. Things that were people's longs disappear. And he said he found that strange because if they mattered if black lives mattered before all of this went Dan. What's making you now? Pick him up and he said the thing about it was. Is that I immediately thought about resume can't remove his black scan. That Rasma can't remove you. Know the the the the cops you know killing him. He can't do that, but we can any in, so he's been kind of working with that and struggling with that for a minute and I just let them struggle with it because that's this. An important struggle is an important question to begin to to deal with. Can I add something to that. Yeah, I'm just curious. Take the signs down because they were scared of how. would. He say that they got. They got some report. That that you know because people were targeting those pieces, and and and when he said that to me. You know I can't cuss on here, but as I said to. That is irrelevant. It is really irrelevant whether or not they were. They thought that somebody would then target them tied at me every day. People target so so the moment you get uncomfortable the you have you have escape patches right? You you you you actually you actually are advantaged by being born in a white body in ways that I am not advantaged. Robin you want to say something. So, two thoughts, because of course I was so rich off. And one is that. It's not benign or innocent that he still doesn't quite see it and I just really WanNa. Push back against any narrative that white people are innocent of race I think it takes energy not to see it. It's kind of. Willful. Not Knowing or used to know. In I I offer that question. When when white people what do I do I asked them in in return. How have you managed not to know? When the information's everywhere? They've been telling US forever. You know. What does it take for us to ask? And then to keep asking in just speaks to how seductive the forces of comfort are. So what am I gonNa do to to keep myself uncomfortable because that comfort really seductive and powerful and has cost yes. It is not it is not a seductiveness without a cost is.

Dan Yard Rasma George Floyd Robin WanNa US Kristof Eddie
"robin diangelo" Discussed on On Being with Krista Tippett

On Being with Krista Tippett

10:19 min | Last month

"robin diangelo" Discussed on On Being with Krista Tippett

"His insight into racism and racial trauma in our bodies, and the need for healing there, he speaks of bodies of culture rather than of color. Robin Diangelo Titas rights and consults from Seattle? So I have some questions and I have some observations or like to run by you, but really what I'm delighted to do is bring the two of you into conversation with each other. You're both doing lots of speaking in this virtual world and being asked and invited. To participate in things if there are even in all of fat questions, you're not being asked that you would like to address or conversations. You'd like to be having or hearing then I would hope that you know. Maybe this could be. A space for that as this next hour so unfolds. Robin because we haven't met before, and you haven't been on the show I. AM curious the only thing that I. That I saw as I was looking around about the background of your life was somewhere you said or you wrote that you grew up poor and white in San Francisco. I'm curious you know how you would trace in the background of your childhood in your earliest life, the seeds of this clarity. About White for -bility that you have really distinctly articulated. For Our world. Thank you for that question? I grew up poor and white in the bay area. Okay, we moved frequently. I think from a very early age. I had a very deep sense of shame. I will never forget a moment in which to moments in fact one in which a teacher held my hand up in front of the class as an example poor hygiene. And told me to go home and tell my mother to wash me. My mom was a single. She had three children. She was sick and she literally couldn't house feed or clothe us, so I was dirty. The other moment was visiting a friend of hers. Some some lady you. Know when your kid and you get taken to somebody's house and they have kids so your plane and on the way out. I was the last one. Out The door and I overheard one of their children ask her mother. What's wrong with them? That was her question. What's wrong with them? And I stopped. You know riveted like I wanted to hear, and her mother put her finger to her lips, and said Sh- their poor. That was. revelatory moment that was a moment when I I realized. There's something about us that everyone can see that shameful, but that should not be named. At the same time. I also always knew I was white, and I knew that it was better to be white. I can remember. Seeing food left out uneaten. And I was hungry and I would reach for it as maybe out in a park on a picnic table or something, and I would be admonished by my mother. Don't touch that. You don't know who touched it. It could have been a colored person, which was the language of the time, and the message was clear. If a colored person touched it, it would be dirty. But. I was actually dirty. But in those moments in those moments I wasn't poor anymore. In those moments I was white. We. We used if you will. Black people to project our shame onto to to realize us. With the dominant. White culture that are poverty separated us from. I don't have less racism because I grew up poor and I don't have less. What white privilege either I just learned my place from a different class position then I would have had I been middle class white. But I still learned it and in it's on me to. Take the rest of my life to to unpack how I learned how it's manifesting. And in some ways it manifests in. Not Feeling, there's a kind of day late dollar short. That people who grew up poor have I didn't go to college until I was in my thirties and sometimes. I see racism happening, but I don't feel like I'm a smart insult. People especially in academia. And so it may truly be a feeling of inferiority. That's keeping me silent, but when I stepped out of myself and asked yes, but how is it functioning right now in this room? Regardless of what is driving your silence? How is it functioning? Well it's functioning to opole racism and to you know I'll get ahead. By my silence and so. That's unacceptable to me and when I use my white position to break, was silence in white solidarity and speak up. I am simultaneously healing the lie. That I am inherently. Inferior because I grew up poor. So for me to center race, even though I experienced depression and have experienced oppression in other aspects of my life for me to center race and feed every other identity or experience through that Lens has been the most profound. Tool if you will. Resume. I'm thinking about how you. Speak About bodies of culture. And I almost feel like what Robin described as another form of being a body of culture. In in a different way right but another. Of the same kind of Part of the same pathology in some way. Pathology is is readily available for any type of identity right so the pathology of of racism, the pathology of classism or the pathology of homophobia those are always readily available to us, but I really do there. There are particular things that when I'm talking about in terms of the Lens that I. That come from it really is about for me having a real understanding on how this thing about race comes up, so yes, there are pieces in there but for me. Much like what Robin said in terms of the Lens that she uses by which she is able to kind of see and judge navigate. The world is is really synonymous with when I'm talking about a living embodied philosophy because what know is that. White Body supremacy and white supremacy is not destructural, but it is also a philosophy. That's why I can mutate. That's why can adapt to every situation, and before you know it whiteness once against centered, even though you started off with kind of a liberation mindset or trying to effect some type of change and so for me. Yes. They're similar, but they're not the same. Okay Yeah. Is a key is how do you use it as a way in and not a way out? Again. I got to repeat it I I always knew what was white I knew it was to be white. Being white has helped me leave poverty. Right can't talk about any other identity without talking about how race shapes that identity. It's so easy to see where we swim against the current and so much harder to see where we move with the current. And for me, that's that's the richest place because I've spent my life. Noticing the injustices I've experienced, but I was very foreign life until I started to notice. What injustice have I perpetuated? In have I benefited gopher? Yeah, and I think One thing that's so insidious about this. You know when we're in a resume when you use the word philosophy, I think when people hear that word, it sounds like. An idea system that one knows one holds. An articulated. Clarity. Of Thought and belief. But you know you. You're coming at this in house in our bodies, whether we know it or not and and and Robin you. Well your your entire premises. How people live in move. Now and not only don't know this, but feel entitled if it gets challenged and you know Chris I think we were articulating sociologists Joe Fagan Coast, the white racial frame like the framework through which we make racial meaning, and it includes everything, interpretations, perceptions, emotions, language, and when you're viewing through a frame, it's so internalize. You don't know you're viewing through with frame I would not have been able to tell you that. I had a racial framework I was raised to just see myself as human I'm just a person. Looking out through objective is right. No I'm looking out through white I. That is really hard for a lot of white people. It's interesting. How defensive an angry white people get when you suggest. that. The you could know anything about them just because they're white and there's a collective worldview that that they have. They're not all just special and unique in different. There's some place that you I've heard you observe that and I think this is. This is a question I've asked, and it's a question I..

Robin Diangelo Titas Seattle San Francisco Joe Fagan classism depression Chris
"robin diangelo" Discussed on Amanpour

Amanpour

02:03 min | 2 months ago

"robin diangelo" Discussed on Amanpour

"The Ford Foundation's down. Walker and former time. Warner Chairman and CEO Richard Parsons Join Me. Then The door right now. Brian Arrested on suspicion of being an illegal risen. Fast shining a light on Britain's colonial legacy seat, and the wind rush scandal at the very heart of it at two Patrick Robinson on his hiring new TV drama. Mere suggestion that white has meaning will cause us to rough and defensiveness, white fragility and unconscious racism Michelle Martin Talks bestselling author. Angelo Welcome to the program. Everyone I'm Christiane Amanpour working.

Chairman and CEO Christiane Amanpour Ford Foundation Richard Parsons Michelle Martin Patrick Robinson Angelo Walker Warner Britain Brian
"robin diangelo" Discussed on I Don't Get It

I Don't Get It

04:47 min | 2 months ago

"robin diangelo" Discussed on I Don't Get It

"There's a difference between careful and thoughtful. If we're so careful that we're never taking risks, we're kind of useless. In trouble anyway. Thoughtful? Don't just go blasting out the first thing that crossed through your head. Sometimes you can just preface it with. Here's what I'm thinking right now and I I'm totally open if I'm missing something, but you know am I missing something and then share it. That's very. Humble and you've invited someone to say Yay actually. You are missing this, but if you just say like it's a fact, that's harder for someone to kind of give you the feedback i. think that kind of like full circle the entire podcast. Question and that question and I. Think is really good advice for all of us trying to start more conversations. These days felt very defensive. Last week. We're all on zoom or having our conversation I was defensive, and then I finished your book and I saw your lectures and everything and I was like I feel very liberated. That accused like calm down and just a good like yeah, obviously I was. Brought up all of these reasons, tendency and I feel like so much better about discussion. Idea yeah, it's it's actually you talk about this in the book I it's a weird part of me. That's like excited and and I almost feels weird to even say that like in this climate right now or I don't even want to say in this climate because it's been happening forever, but like it's almost like it is freeing to know that this is what we were born into. We are responsible to challenge it and to always learn. I would have never chosen to be conditioned this way, but I was conditioned this way, so I don't know that there's a more stimulating journey for you. As a white person than this, every aspect of you will be challenged, and will grow intellectually a psychically psychologically emotionally spiritually it. You couldn't pick a better journey for for growth now. All right well. Thank you so much I. Like you so much so enlightening I hope everyone listening. I hope that this helped at all. I know it definitely helped like the three of us and I. Just think we need to keep going. You know like this isn't. It's not like listening to a podcast. Done like I, the yearbook is just unreal like highlighted. Every I ran out of highlighter. We're honored that you gave us your time I mean you have probably been the busiest woman in the country over the past couple weeks and to give our audience time is been just We can't thank you enough. We don't have the words for. Me Say modeled really beautifully like you felt defensive Lauren, but you move through it and now you're at a different place. You listen to openly. To me, you didn't argue or debate I. It's really good Maga Lane, it's not a comfortable conversation, but we won't get where we need to go from a place of White Comfort. That's for sure so more cavern. Thank you well, thank..

Lauren White Comfort
"robin diangelo" Discussed on I Don't Get It

I Don't Get It

05:30 min | 2 months ago

"robin diangelo" Discussed on I Don't Get It

"Ucf I asked you a sensitive way, but some are man asking you that and then imagine that you begin to tell him, and he begins to ask you what you were wearing. Rate he's asking you to open your guts and be vulnerable. And then he's going to sit back and determine whether he thinks what you shared was legitimate. Totally until this is we to people call it. Tell me about tell me about racism. Teach me about racism. Oh, I! Don't think that was racist. It's ridiculous and it really. It's so insane. We all you all recognize it. Don't yeah one hundred percent honest. We've done it. I've done it. I've done. Today I do think the most powerful things are when you relate it back to something that. That is more relatable to us. White ripples like when you flew. Yeah, talking about like just me too movement because as a woman. Even if you haven't been raped, you can still. Feel that. Yeah. It whenever I can't figure out a piece of racism or I've been given some feedback that I I don't understand. I just changed the roles in my head, and I imagined a man doing what I'm about to do our WANNA. Do and then usually like God i. see it. So, the keys to use that as a way in not away out, a lot of women will stay. Will I experienced sexism? So you know it's the same, or it's worse or they use it as a way out. That's called white feminism. We can't. Arable, we are talking about educating ourselves, but can we make this statement a little more specific? What does it mean when we say we're going to educate ourselves that me and like talking more about American history, looking more into the stuff that we didn't learn in high school at court, Cases looking into all these situations like George Floyd and Brianna Taylor. That haven't made it to lake. The mainstream media as much as these have what let's be more specific about what education means. Thank you and we. We really don't know our history so. We don't know that where we are today. From just decades, if not centuries of building up of advantage for white people, there's really dense histories like Ibraim. Kindy stamped from the beginning, which is about five inches thick, but it's fantastic you got gotta be pretty motivated There's really light quick histories PBS has a special called race the power of illusion. It's fantastic that will help you with that history. Sixteen eighteen. Every day. Thirteen. That's an excellent. Movie. If if if you respond better to to visuals, so there's ways to get that that that are engaging watch videos listen to New York Times seeing white to podcast. tastic.

Ucf New York Times Brianna Taylor George Floyd Ibraim PBS
"robin diangelo" Discussed on I Don't Get It

I Don't Get It

02:46 min | 2 months ago

"robin diangelo" Discussed on I Don't Get It

"First of all. I would ask what does it mean to say? Everybody's equal and live separate from them. Right. That You can be told that everybody's equal, but you're getting a very deep message on many other levels. When you don't live with them, you don't know them. You haven't been taught that. You need to know them when you're never given their perspectives so There's what we're told. And then there's the actual practice of our lives. Those parents who told us that did they have any black friends? Do they have any critical awareness? Awareness of their own whiteness. No, so it's kind of like thing. We say that has really no No meaning in the sense that what were absorbing at the deeper level, is much more powerful than those empty words right? We're taught that like there is no loss in the absence of people of color were taught that like a good school is a predominantly white school like we're taught when we're little that like self censorship. You know we should self-censor when it comes to race, and maybe not saying anything, instead of like recognize it and challenges. In who does that serve? Can you think of any any other social problems that we would say? The best thing is to never speak of it? Let's never speak of suicide. Let's never speak of sexual assault and rape. US never speak of eating disorders. But, why are we saying? Let's not speak race or racism. You know. Can you imagine somebody saying to you? This imagine that you are the only woman on a team of twelve men. I don't know if that ever happens, but you could imagine the workplace in these male dominated fields. You can have a different experience than they have They're going to be all kinds of unconscious sexist assumptions. They're making things. They say the way they talk to you the way they responded your ideas differently than they respond to the men's ideas and imagine one day you you. You try to bring it up. You try to bring up that you feel like you. You're definitely you know treated differently in our feeling. These things as a woman in the group and the men. Look at you and say I. Don't see you as a woman. Or one that's ridiculous. It's like yes, you do. Do and you better because I am a woman I'm the only one here and I'm having a different experience than you guys are. Pay attention like you wouldn't feel validated an affirmed. You would be like and but but we say that the Black People Automo- I. Don't even notice. You're black mark bright bluish. Yellow noticing, we are noticing it has the. Can I give you a quote that I?.

assault rape
"robin diangelo" Discussed on I Don't Get It

I Don't Get It

05:28 min | 2 months ago

"robin diangelo" Discussed on I Don't Get It

"Of course she had to buy a gun. Okay so I think just about anyone who heard that would go. Oh, must have been a black neighborhood one. That's why it was twenty five thousand dollars. That's why she had to buy a gun. And that's actually where the emphasis of the stories on right, the that's where the emotional impact of that story is, and this is kind of an example of white solidarity. The ways that white people have these conversations were reinforcing us and them and upset better than them. She didn't even have to come out and say it. We both knew what was happening in that conversation. Now I pushed back. and asked her I y soon. The neighborhoods black. And she says yes. But I wouldn't pay five cents for a house in that neighborhood came. And then. I said well. I wasn't asking because I was looking for a home. I'm asking because I'm writing in my book right now. About how white people talk about race without talking about race, and then she need a immediately rights. Oh! I wouldn't want you to move there too far away from me. It's never say that something to a black person it's. Crazy because she knew what she was saying is wrong. That's why she felt comfortable. Saying it needed now we change it, and of course she has plausible deniability because she didn't come out and say but I call that danger discourse. The way. We reinforce these ideas indirect way. Are these ideals in these like socialized ideas. Only in the US cuts, the slavery was or is all around the world, because like our foundation is. Based on slavery ours is. What countries sold enslaved Africans toss the Britain the British They have a deep history of colonization in India. The. Western pretty much. All Western cultures have colonialism and some aspect of the slave trade in their histories, and in virtually all those countries I've been to Australia South Africa England Germany on and on and on and. Black and Brown people at the bottom of every measure just like they are here. Okay, so Dan figure out systematic racism either..

Dan US Australia India Britain Germany Africa
"robin diangelo" Discussed on I Don't Get It

I Don't Get It

03:35 min | 2 months ago

"robin diangelo" Discussed on I Don't Get It

"I'm like ooh. Look at that assumption you just. Showing that. Yeah. I. Because you brought up white supremacy robin this some the way you redefined it for me and I like you said I think we need to redefine it on this podcast. Is that we're socialized in a white supremacy. Because of all the things you were just saying everything we see, and this was freeing to me. Because just like you say, we can now focus on. How were racist and how racism manifest as opposed to? If we're racist, so it's important that we define what white supremacy actually is. It was a word that I was scared to say I thought white supremacy was when I think white supremacy I. Think the KKK exactly that is. In heads? That is not what white supremacy is so can you tell us what white supremacy actually is and I was raised also to think about it as the KKK, it includes the KKK. But it's a highly descriptive term for the society. We live in a society that holds white people up as the ideal for humanity as the norm as the unmarked. There's nothing to say here and everyone else is a certain kind of human and usually a less less. Right, so the the the idea of white as equals human. and. Everything is kind of a sub version of that and you know. I don't consciously believe that, but that doesn't mean I haven't internalized that message deep within myself. I have lots of black friends in my life at this point. I wasn't raised like most white people. I wasn't raised a half black people in my life. Most white people don't have black people in. In their life, so of course I. I have friends who I love and I i. don't sit there thinking. They're less human, but that doesn't mean walking down the street in passing someone I don't know who's black that I. don't get a moment of fear or I. See some television at kind of a shocking, rather racist thought flashes through my mind And the more subtle stuff of. Most white people live separate from black people with no feeling at all that they're missing anything that matters. Yeah, WE'RE! Aggregated that's a really deep message. Most white people will go from cradle to grave with few if any. Authentic relationships with black people non. Will they not feel the? Values missing. They'll measure how good their schools in neighborhoods are. Precisely, because there aren't black, people in their schools are neighborhoods. This is the more quote, unquote, subtle manifestation of white as ideal. Why is it white neighborhood a good neighborhood? If it's segregated could make a case that maybe that's not a good neighborhood. because. And this was all under you call this aversive racism and you shared text message exchange and I thought was really powerful between you and your friend, which I think would be great for you to share here, because even when you brought it up as a white person, the narrative was changed by the person you were interacting with. I have a friend who. was telling me about about some. She knows who bought a house in new. Orleans for only twenty five thousand dollars. Can you believe? Ardent right and then immediately ads..

Orleans
"robin diangelo" Discussed on I Don't Get It

I Don't Get It

05:00 min | 2 months ago

"robin diangelo" Discussed on I Don't Get It

"Fans, Harry Anti. Waste E. Let's start off with the real definition of racism, and I know that racism is complex and nuanced, but I say real because while I know most of us are aware it still happens i. feel like in School were taught about slavery in the context that racism was a thing of the past in this country. Not something that's ongoing that has been swept under the rug for many years, and my biggest takeaway from your book was that we're all racist, so the first thing is that. While, we're taught that this was in the past. I think everybody knows that. By every measure across every institution blackened ground, people will be at the bottom. Now how we explain that might vary, but that we all know that over and over and over our society reproduces inequality right. There's only two explanations for that inequality either black and Brown people are inferior. There's something wrong with them that they're always at the bottom and white people are superior because we're consistently at the top or racism. So so really for white person you to ask yourself. How do you make sense of that? And that might connect you to some racist ideas? You have that you're not really noticing. But we're all taught in mainstream culture to to define a racist like this. It's an individual who consciously doesn't like people based on race and is intentionally mean to them. Individual Conscious Allenton about cross race. That's a racist. Anything short shorter. Wearing a white hood is not a racist and I. Don't know if you could come up with a better way to protect the system of racism that definition, because it exempts virtually everyone, even these acts that. Uneducated White people educated on the topic of racism which hold your breath is basically every white person. You know because we're not given the education so if you don't work hard to get that, you just are not. Informed on this topic every act that the average white person recognize as racist. Amy Cooper in the park, calling the police on somebody who asks her to follow the rules..

Amy Cooper Harry Anti
"robin diangelo" Discussed on I Don't Get It

I Don't Get It

05:19 min | 2 months ago

"robin diangelo" Discussed on I Don't Get It

"We feel so honored to have you on We found ourselves highlighting almost every page and we wanted to preface something that you wrote in your book that this conversation isn't so much about providing the ultimate solution are proving that racism exists because it does which is why we're here. This is more about how white fragility is holding racism in place and we wanted you to know that if we ask you question or say something that is racially problematic on this podcast. We want you to know that we would love feedback on it. Thank you, okay. Yeah To that end. Before we start, you know that I am white. That's my racial identity. May I ask you yours? Time bus our way. Okay, so Lauren and Actually. And Sisters. Robin I feel so much like comforting you even asking this question so I am Dominican. So I am a white Latin X female, but I've I've actually been very confused growing up in the states because I feel like I've been lumped into people of color. Brown people Latin next yet? My skin is olive town and white. Well, so a couple of things we let me point out. Why did I ask you your racial identities? And that is because it's going to shape the way I respond to you and I think that will come out because he's listeners might be thinking right now. Why would you respond differently based on their race, so we will get into that, but you also just show. This is a social construct. Stuff is made up. It's real in its consequence. But it it changes over time in some context, you're probably responded to as white and other contacts as a person of color, and then there's your own internal by your own turn. Y excuse me. Your own internal identity. This is why this is so complex and why white people really need to have some humility about that complexity? I wanted to preface the podcast by saying like I, am been scared to pull a Meghan Kelly for like the past two weeks on all of my podcasts I'm afraid that I'm GonNa. Ask the ignorant question that I should know the answer to and then be canceled for it. I feel like these moments are what kind of increases white fragility, and because it makes its it makes it so scary to talk about race and be vocal about it because you can see how easily people can be Vilnai's. Yes okay, owner. You said that one thing I have so much to say about it, so one is. How will we learn if we don't make mistakes? If you think that I am articulate and clear about about race and racism, and I WANNA be clear that my life my learning will never be over, but the degree that I am is from countless thousands of mistakes over twenty years that the key is that you learn and grow from the mistakes. You don't use them to excuse. You're like. Forget it then I'm not gonNA say anything and in my experience, those moments don't have to turn into vilification. The way that you learn earn trust is by repairing those moments..

Vilnai Meghan Kelly Lauren Robin
"robin diangelo" Discussed on I Don't Get It

I Don't Get It

02:07 min | 2 months ago

"robin diangelo" Discussed on I Don't Get It

"Hey everyone, welcome to the podcast first and foremost. We want to start off this podcast by saying black lives matter they matter and they shouldn't. That shouldn't be a controversial Stephen with the tragic. In recent innocent debts of black people like Ahmed Aubrey Brianna Taylor or floyd by police or former police officers people in this country, all over the world have been protesting, paying closer attention to police brutality and taking a hard look in the mirror, including the three of us I'm white passing. So before we get started. I also want to acknowledge that we when I say we I mean white people are white passing I feel like are all sitting around the Thanksgiving table right now and a lot of us are emotionally confused. Were feeling, guilt, anger, embarrassment, sadness, excitement, hopefulness, helplessness, and I. We feel like it's more important than ever that we become vulnerable and practice racial humility. We are building a plane while flying it and we can't be scared to mess up because that fear in itself is a privilege and I feel like I have to be vulnerable in this moment, and until you that that's something that I just learned. Last week I was actually hesitant to have robin on the podcast because she is in black, it's not black people's job to educate us, and we can't let fear protecting our ego are brand or whatever get in the way of trying to make this world a better place, because this is a matter of life and death for black people. We have to work through this and educate ourselves so today we're GonNa use our honor and privilege and platform by having Robin Dangelo. She's an academic educator on Whiteness Studies and author. Author of white fragility, it's so hard for white people to talk about racism. She's back on the New York. Times bestseller lists her books basically sold out, and we just hope that this podcast can help all of us on our journey of educating ourselves and fighting systemic racism, because it's something that's going to require learning and listening for the rest of our lives, and we also wanted you guys to know that we will be donating our money from the sponsorship of this podcast to organizations that are funding the movement..

Robin Dangelo Ahmed Aubrey Brianna Taylor Stephen Times bestseller New York Whiteness Studies floyd
The author of White Fragility doesnt think most white people care about racial injustice

Cape Up with Jonathan Capehart

04:49 min | 2 months ago

The author of White Fragility doesnt think most white people care about racial injustice

"I'm Jonathan Kaye part in this is Cape. Robin Diangelo is the author of white fragility by it so hard for white people to talk about racism. It's one of the most important books on race and racism that I've read because it's written by a white woman for white people. And she doesn't mince words I actually don't think that most white people care about racial injustice. The Angelo and I discuss how amy Cooper's nine. One one call and central park was terrifying addition to a history of white women's tears, being weaponized against black men, we discussed the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis, and we talk about the broader concept of white fragility. And how if you're white? You can liberate yourself from it. As you will hear. This was a Cathartic conversation for me. You can listen to it right now. Robert de Ngelo. Thank you very much for coming on the PODCAST. Thanks for having me I've been raving about your book white fragility. Why so hard for white people talk about racism? Since I read last year in one of the chapters in your book is entitled White Women's Tears and I immediately thought of it in in reaction to what happened central park between Amy Cooper, and Christian couvert not no relation and you have A. reprise Vignette. in that chapter where someone says to you when a white woman cries, a black man gets hurt, and you go on to write, not knowing or being sensitive to this history is another example of white centrality, individualism and lack of racial humility. In that that vignette jumped out at me after watching the Amy Cooper video. Because at least to me, it was clear Amy Cooper knew what she was doing. Those quote, unquote tears, and that quote unquote emotion were not real. From your perspective and as author of this book, tell me what you what you thought of what you saw in that video, and how that plays into the overall research in your book. Yeah, and you also noticed that the more it becomes clear that they're not working the more unraveled she becomes right there something. There's response that she expects to get that. She's not getting. So there's so much going on in that that scene. If you will, there's the sense of this is my space. This is our space and you don't belong in this space. And I am entitled to engage in this faith in any way that I want. I need to follow the rules right so in putting them back onto him. She actually makes herself the victim and hurt him the perpetrator. He's not following a an unspoken set of rules, which is not only not being in her space, but backing down a when she basically demands him to back down. When she she uses his race. Over and over, so it's very clear. She's not just calling the police and describing him even before she calls, she makes it known in. This is another great example of the lie of color blindness that we don't notice people's race. That has no meaning so she's leveraging all of this, and he just remains calm, dignified and she again. And more irrational, and I think in enlarge white fragility is irrationality, but it doesn't have to be rational. We don't have to be rational. It just has to work, so we can on in one one moment invoke individualism. Why can't we all be seen as unique and different and the next moment? Oh, we all bleed under the skin. Why can't we all seen as the same? They're contradictory narratives, but that's not the point the point is we need to silence of racism. We need to silence any calling in of our positions of our entitlement. At in there, there's a there's so much history behind this. This is this is another piece. White women's tears invoke a history of terror. I mean Emmett till. Is probably the most amplified example of what happens when a white woman claims distress. In that case he you know. He looked at me. He whistled at me and in the Emmett till example, we also know that that wasn't true. This a so much of this is based on lies, but up until recently it's certainly been effective.

Amy Cooper George Floyd Jonathan Kaye Robin Diangelo Robert De Ngelo Angelo Emmett Cape Minneapolis
"robin diangelo" Discussed on News & Talk 1380 WAOK

News & Talk 1380 WAOK

05:08 min | 2 years ago

"robin diangelo" Discussed on News & Talk 1380 WAOK

"Four, four eight, nine two. Seven zero three is the. Number today. This morning we are wrestling with a main thing on, his, jazzy Thursday There's an offer by, the. Name of Robin diangelo who has introduced the, term white fragility to, the American. Lexicon she talking about let's. See if, kind of classic right I had determined self is is, offensive Which is perfect it's classic white. Fragility right to name whiteness right, is. Really problematic for a lot of people How I came to coin it was I have a. Really rare job day in and day out I hold sustained conversations on race and racism with primarily white audiences the reason my audience is primarily white just. Because I'm in the workplace and most. Of the people in those physicians are white right in. In? Doing that there were. Really consistent patterns, of, engagement it was almost. As if we'd been handed a script right and You're so predictable these reactions and as I thought about them they they basically. Looked like fragility to the inability to handle any challenge to our positions our worldview the, entitlement to not have those positions named right. The entitlement to be seen as a say slash demand to be seen. As an individual outside of race and when I when I use. The term fragility it doesn't mean week right it will what it means is I can handle that and I will do whatever takes for you to stop. And if that means I need you. Come across as weak all come across this week so I'll? Cry If it means I need to, kind of storm out or get angry and get my backup. I'll do that it's not necessarily consciously thinking I'm, going to block but, for? Many factors that I'm sure we'll emerge as we discussed the steeper that that reflex of ood I've got to. I got to stop that challenge because it's throwing me off of my racial equilibrium they. Go right there Can't be. Challenged my whiteness in my white privilege cannot be, challenged because that throws me off of my racial equilibrium and I suffer from white fragility meaning specifically that my ego is. Injured a whenever the privilege of that goes along with my whiteness encroached upon or. Challenge or even questioned That's Robin DeAngelis talking, about and I'm f you wish he really talking about four four nine two seven zero three absolute fool blaze as your MAG come home Coincide with that what somebody People worse yeah you know I was just. As you begin to speak it made me think about that appears to be what the. Current president is suffering with that's his main disease that he has. White fragility The White House Aw Yep Anybody wanna tell us? Why Mike a maximum wrong with Joe foam, and we get into you don't Oh Knows. Going. Okay Appreciate, your call man four zero four eight, nine two. Two seven zero three come. On Really Hey how you doing this? Morning I'm will your brother and, you I'm I'm. Doing. Okay Good okay go ahead? We'll do we'll take I saw. Forty five meet with Mussa Putin and I noticed that they flags in France flag and. Even. The. British flag. Colorado common. Like there's. Some kind of global thing together The thirteen Countries that came. Over here They were, inconsideration with each other anyway. They just had minus Passover I think I, think I. Mentioned that yesterday brother duly, as a matter of fact they all red white and blue white red and blue rea- white and blue French Russian US Is, all about Why Yeah I was going to do even if you didn't ask All right Yoho florida Yeah I'll be killing me for doing. This show Trust, was we got this we can oldest down Four four four. Nine seven zero three We'll, be sending me letters and stuff about..

Robin DeAngelis Robin diangelo wrestling US Mussa Putin president Colorado Yoho Joe foam Mike France