6 Episode results for "Robert Lusty"
228. 11 Simple Ways to Be 100x More Effective Than Most People
"To get exceptional results you need to do exceptional things. Most things that are normal are normal. Only because very few people can resist them. Just because it's normal doesn't mean it's good for you. It often means the opposite. It's like the ancient Chinese proverb says if five million people do foolish thing it is still a foolish thing. This is love your work and David Kennedy Want to carve out your unique place in this world. You need to rise. Above the noise that other people succumb to which means that you have to ruthlessly eliminate the self destructive things that most people do. The economy runs like a flywheel off of exploiting our weaknesses sell. Us Addictive and unhealthy substances. Then you can sell drugs to treat the diseases. They cause hold our attention with news. That convinces us. We can't trust one another then. You can sell US suburban developments in home security systems. Then there's even more attention leftover to sell advertisers because our isolation makes us bored and lonely. Getting us to do things that aren't good for us is great for the Gross Domestic Product. We're so vulnerable to these things that if you can cut out the things that break you down and replaced them with the things that build you up. You can be way more effective than most people. I say you could be one hundred times more effective than most people. Here are eleven things you can do to be one hundred times more effective than most people before I go further. I want to acknowledge this list pisses some people off. I posit that it threatens their self perception. I'm not saying you're a bad person if you do or don't do these things. I'm saying you would be better off if you did. All of these things must be honest. It's darn near impossible to do all these things I know I don't. This is just a list. I aspire to also some people here this list and think it sounds like a boring life. I would encourage those people to get a life. I'll explain at the end of his episode. Okay on with the list. One no sugar. Sugar is an addictive substance. Sugar stimulates dopamine and the more dopamine you stimulate the more dopamine. You need in order to feel stimulated if you want to hear more about that listen to Robert Lusty on episode. One Eighty six. It is downright criminal. How much sugar surrounds us? Every day the last time I was in hospital the only things in the vending machine were products filled with sugar in hospital too. No alcohol again. Why is this normal? Just look at? How many bars and liquor stores on every city street at some point in my twenty s? I realized that each Saturday night I was regularly spending the equivalent of an entire working day going from bar to bar not to mention. The weight at drinking affected me the next day and likely throughout the week. You can accomplish a lot if you cut out alcohol. I'm lucky enough to not be addicted to alcohol but economist Tyler. Cowen shared on interesting perspective on this podcast. That alcohol is so harmful too much of the population those who are addicted to alcohol that the only responsible thing to do is to not drink so it won't be such a normal thing anymore. Three no caffeine. This one is hard for the coffee. Lovers Caffeine again is an addictive substance. What happens when you're addicted to something you don't use it? It uses you the more caffeine. You use the more caffeine you need until you simply can't get enough. Many people don't realize that their caffeine use is at the root of other conditions such as anxiety depression. High blood pressure even schizophrenia. Additionally using caffeine even in the morning can reduce the quality of your sleep that night whether you know it or not. Four eight hours of sleep a night. Speaking of sleep one of the best things you can do for your health and wellbeing is get enough sleep. Sleep is especially important for creativity because to have great ideas. You need to have knowledge to connect into great ideas and to have knowledge. You need to form memories to form memories. You need to sleep well yet. Another reason to cut out. Caffeine sleep is the new coffee five. Throw your TV in the garbage. According to Nielsen Americans Watch astounding four hours a day of television. Imagine everything you could do in four hours a day. I think there's a neurological component to this too as someone who watches very little. Tv when I do finally see TV. It's jarring the way people interact is childish. Everything is broken down for short attention spans. Even if you do something productive while watching TV I bet you do it better if you would turn it off. Six delete social media from your phone. Social media can be fun and valuable trying to function in this world with no social media. Accounts is a tall order though. Some people manage to do it. A good compromise is to delete social media from your phone. Only use it on your computer. The danger of having social media on your phone is all those pockets of time and focus that it steals from you. When you're waiting in line or on the bus or just lounging on the couch. It's way too easy to go straight to social media. If you must be on your phone why not read a book? Jot Down some notes for your next creative project. A text file seven. Keep your phone in silent mode a great way to keep your phone from sucking up your time and attention is to simply keep your phone in silent mode or do not disturb this in addition to eliminating as many APP notifications as possible. Check your phone on your schedule. Got On your phones schedule. If you're concerned about emergencies you can set up. Certain context to bypass silent mode eight. Read one hour a day. It's a lot easier to cut out lots of attention. Steelers such as social media and television if you replace them with an attention cultivator reading and long form such as books or long articles cultivates your ability to focus. Which makes it easier to focus. I recently experimented with cutting out reading during a media fast. It was a valuable exercise but I did eventually notice a drop in my ability to focus. Now that I'm back to reading an hour a day I'm regaining that focus nine meditate fifteen minutes a day meditation. Rewires your brain for focus. Meditation makes you more aware of what's happening in your body and mind and self awareness boosts creativity. It may not make sense that by sitting and doing nothing for fifteen minutes a day you can be more creative. But when you let your thoughts settle each action you take can be more purposeful and also. GonNa go out on a limb here and say that if you don't want to meditate try simply doing nothing for fifteen minutes. Just stare at a wall. Look at Birds. Much of the benefits people see from meditation. Come simply from what they're not doing so try doing nothing. Ten Journal ten minutes a day I think of writing is like training wheels for thought when you write down your thoughts. Whether that's in a journal on a scratch file or on an Alpha smart it helps solidify. Those thoughts like meditating. Taking some time to journal will help you take more decisive action in your life and work. It doesn't have to be fancy you'll be surprised. What MENTAL CLARITY. You can achieve by writing down even your most mundane thoughts eleven. Get therapy when I published this list on Social Media. Some people proclaimed that they don't need therapy and that therapy is for crybabies. I don't know where these people got. Their ideas of what therapy is probably from watching too much. Tv therapy on thinking of cognitive. Behavioral therapy in particular is not about being a crybaby or even venting. It is hard work but it helps undo thought patterns at the root of self destructive behaviors it also eliminates the feelings that trigger though self destructive behaviours. If you try and stick with it it can be like magic one day. You just find yourself not reacting in the way you want did to something that used to make you feel sad or anxious all right. Here's the list again one. No SUGAR TOO. No alcohol three. No Caffeine four eight hours of sleep a night five. Throw your TV in the garbage. Six delete social media from your phone. Seven keep your phone in silent mode eight. Read one hour a day nine meditate fifteen minutes a day ten journal. Ten minutes a day eleven. Get therapy now. Some people protest at following. This list sounds like a boring life. I think that just shows how deep the cultural programming is that we should for some reason. Seek pleasure at every turn and avoid pain whenever possible as someone who follows much of this list. Most of the time I can tell you. I don't find my life boring at all but that's because I have meaning discipline if that's what you want to call. This is not the cause of meaning. Discipline is the byproduct of meaning get a life by that. I mean find meaning in your life and the opportunity. Costs of not being disciplined skyrocket. So how do you find? Meaning well that can be a future episode. Let me know if you WanNa hear about it at the core of being able to love. Your work is one question. Where does the money come from? Does the work you do make humanity better? Do the products you use help. You grow as a person. That's why supporting love. Your work on Patriot on is good for all of us. I can focus on making a great show so you can become a better human. It's an honest exchange value for value. This show costs hundreds of dollars a month to produce and bring to your ears. I invest my time and creative energy and making it so I can't keep this show going without your support. Please support the show on Patriots at Patriotair Dot com slash caddy. Think of it like a coffee meeting. Is this show worth buying me a coffee a month. Head TO PATRIOTS DOT COM slash. Cabbie to join. You'll get perks. Such as early access to add free content masterclasses or office hours directly with me that's Patriot dot com slash cavity or overcast users. Just tap on the dollar sign love. Your work is brought to you in part by our top Patriot supporters such as Geoffrey Mason the theme music for love. Your work is at sea by Dana from the album about everything and more by arrangement with deep elm records at deep elm dot com love. Your work is a production of TATTY inc.
222. Stop Listening To My Podcast
"What are you doing? Didn't you read the title of this episode? I am begging you. Stop listening to my podcasts. You're still here okay. I will see what I can do to persuade you to. Stop listening to my podcast. This is love your work and I'm David caddy a now. Admit it bums me fuck out. There aren't more people listening to my podcast. I've been delivering an episode every week for the past four years and I haven't seen any growth at all for the past three of those years if anything my stats tell me. I get fewer downloads. Then I did three years ago before I get to why I want you to stop listening to my podcast. I have to be clear. Sometimes it makes me sad. That more people aren't listening to my podcast and it's not that I wanna be rich and famous. I decided what I wanted when I made the decision for years ago to double down on being a writer and podcast her. I told myself I want to make a living creating. I don't want creating to be merely a marketing strategy for other things. Is that completely insane? So I sold everything I owned and moved to the Third World. I knew I would struggle to make money for a while but I never knew the struggle would take this long. I never knew it would be this hard. That's the reason I wish more people. Listen to my podcast. I don't need to make enough money to buy Bentley or even a Toyota. I just want to make enough money from my writing and podcasting that I can do more writing and podcasting. I wrote my first book. Ten years ago I moved to South America four years ago. I don't want to right so I can make money. I want to make money so I can right. And that's the only thing that makes it fucking heartbreaking about not having more people listening to my podcast but there's no denying that people shouldn't be listening to my podcast at the beginning of this year. I tried in experiment. I went on a media fast. I stopped listening to podcasts. I stopped checking twitter. I even stopped reading books. I stopped multitasking. Started unite tasking. At first it was agonizing. I felt like I needed more stimulation but powered through it and it was like rummaging through the junk piled up. You're dead grandmother's dusty addict. I was surprise when I discovered underneath all that. Clutter my own thoughts instead of listening to a podcast. While cooking and eating lunch I simply focused on cooking and eating lunch. I was chatting with a friend on what's APP. I wasn't switching to instagram. Between messages I was only chatting with that friend. I watched the sunset almost every day. And I didn't post pictures of those sunsets to instagram. I just sat there and watched the colors change like some enlightened neanderthal. Eventually things started bubbling to the surface after lunch. I would jot down ideas on the little white board while watching sunsets ideas would come to me for my next book or podcast episodes like this one. It was hard to admit it to myself. Creating is better than consuming. The more you consume the less you can create. Some people will protest. If you aren't consuming where are you going to get inspiration? Well inspiration is bullshit. You've seen enough things in your life. You've had enough damn ideas. You never did shit with most of them near. Did I. Your need for inspiration is a fear of your own thoughts. It's a fear of doing the hard work of processing. What's in your head breaking out of the bullshit scripts that society rights for you and having an actual thought a true sometimes uncomfortable original. Thought you don't need inspiration. You need action. I can't deny from my own experience of going on a media fast then much of the time when I was consuming it was standing in my way of creating and wasn't creating what I wanted to do in the first place. This was an uncomfortable realization. I even had a couple of friends point out that reading. Books is a FORM OF PROCRASTINATION SACK. Relig- but they're right. How many books have you read? Can you recite what you learn from those books? Have you truly taken action? What you or did you just move onto the next book as you can see for me as someone who creates as someone who writes books and makes podcasts? This was a tough pill to swallow. I had to search myself for why I create what I create. I concluded that more than anything I create for my own self development in this world. Everyone is trying to get a piece of you. Facebook wants your eyeballs and your browsing history. The news media wants your attention. They'll manipulate your emotions. They will try to fool you into thinking it's somehow virtuous to be informed but it's all fucking bullshits on top of it. Addictive substances are all around us. How many lives have been destroyed by alcohol? Or ADDICTION TO PRESCRIPTION DRUGS. Go to a hospital looking the vending machine. Sugar sugar more sugar. It's so pervasive. We assume sugar isn't putting us in the hospital. And how many of US swear that we can't function in the morning and this we have a piping hot thermos of a psychoactive drug. Yeah Caffeine this shit is not right some of you are probably wondering what the FARC The news. Facebook and coffee had to do with my podcast. As I said I primarily. Make this show and write books to help myself because it brings me meaning. That meaning is strong enough to motivate me to take a break from listening to podcasts and reading books to save fuck the news fuck facebook fuck alcohol on every corner fucked sugar all around us. Fuck the caffeine. In every cop some people would describe this mindset as STOIC. Well my unpopular opinion is that stoicism is useless as a philosophy. It just rings hollow in my ears. Stoicism is not the cause of meaningful life a STOIC MINDSET. Instead is the effect of a meaningful life. All the things I described can be pleasurable. You could call my media fast. Eight dopamine fast as Dr. Robert Lusty taught us episode. One eighty-five pleasure which is triggered by dopamine is different from happiness which is triggered by Serotonin in fact pleasure and happiness are like polar opposites so. I don't shun pleasures by wave's stoicism. I don't shun pleasures for the sake of shunning pleasures. I do it because none of that. So called pleasurable stuff will help me be the human that I want to be. None of that will help me. With this journey. This journey of creating I create so that I can create. And so who would I be if I expected you to listen to my podcast? I'll reiterate yeah. I want podcast listeners. I want Patriot supporters. Yeah I want to sell books when I make money. I can create more things but the thing I hope for myself is the same thing that I hope for you. I want you to break out of the Matrix of bullshit that rules the thoughts and actions of so many of us on what you to stop consuming and start creating. If you're trying to escape the Bullshit Through Your Own Discipline Aka stoicism. You'RE GONNA have a bad time. There's nothing I can say to you. There's no inspiration. I can provide which will make that happen so yeah it makes me really sad. Sometimes that I don't have more podcast listeners. But then I tell myself David if they aren't consuming maybe they're out there creating and I have no choice. That has to make me happy the reasons that are strong enough to help you break free. You can only find those in yourself. You have to listen to the voice inside your head. You have to have a conversation with it and you can't hear that voice if mine is still ringing in your ears so if you can find meaning within you if you have the motivation to become a better you you already have everything you need. Stop listening to my podcast. Go make your own podcast. But I'll still be making mine as long as I can. At the core of being able to love your work is one question. Where does the money come from? Does the work you do make humanity better through the products? You use help. You grow as a person. That's why supporting love. Your work on. Patriotism is good for all of us I can focus on making a great show so you can become a better human it. An honest exchange value for value. This show costs hundreds of dollars a month to produce and bring to your ears. I invest my time and creative energy in making it so I can't keep this show going without your support. Please support the show on Patriot at patriotair dot com slash caddy. Think of it like a coffee meeting. Is this show worth buying me a coffee a month. Head to Patriots. Dot Com Slash Kaddoumi to join. You'll get perks. Such as early access to add free content masterclasses or office hours directly with me. That's Patriot dot com slash category or overcast users. Just tap on the dollar sign love. Your work is brought to you in part by our top Patriot supporters such as Geoffrey Mason the theme music for love. Your work is at sea by Derina from the album about everything and more by arrangement with deep elm records at Deep Alma Dot Com love. Your work is a production of tabby.
How to Prevent Your Mind From Being Hacked, With Robert Lustig (RECAST)
"Hey upgrade listeners. We are weak. But we have a great recast for you. It's how to prevent your mind for being hacked with Dr Robert Leg. Hello and welcome to upgrade the podcast from the team at life hacker dot com. Where we help you improve your life one week at a time. I'm Melissa Kirsch editor-in-chief of Life Hacker and Die Maus Bradley Life Hackers Deputy Editor. And today we're talking about how our minds are being hacked and what we can do about it we'll be talking to. Robert Lusty a pediatric endocrinologist. Who is probably best known for the viral video of a lecture? He gave called Sugar. The bitter truth about the damage caused by sugary foods. He's the author of the book. Fat chance beating the odds against sugar processed food obesity and disease as well as the new book the hacking of the American mind the science behind the corporate takeover of our bodies and brains and we are getting sicker and stupider and fatter and broke. Okay Alice so it's September. We'll know what that means. Yeah Apple Event. Yes Apple iphone day. How do you feel about this? I feel excited because I buy a new iphone. Every other cycle Like when there's a big new iphone that's when I get one so I think it's time I can update my phone. Six to an iphone eight and I'm very excited about this. Okay all right. I am always disgusted by the apple event because it's just as kind of like obscene display of Consumer cultures there's sort of the cult of apple right and like people thought they lush the rush to go by the new thing and the kind of obsessive nece about it. And it's this same and it's just kind of also I feel like the last couple of ones have just been kinda worse. Slake we will. Obviously since Steve Jobs died feel like things have changed in the apple events. You sound a little bit like our guest today not to bring it back on topic but to bring it back to bring it to the topic of the show today. I'm not a puppet like some people. It always moves into you and Sultan I see that ambivalence about it is a little weird that we have this big event to unveil a consumer product. I guess like it or not. The role that technology plays in. Our lives is massive. And so the number of people that Geek out over it just increases as the years go by as we become more attached to our phones and Blah Blah Blah. And all the things that people complain about people like you complain about. I really do complain about it and I think we all complain kind of turning me into an old person but I but I become increasingly alarmed when I walk around to see people staring at their phones. All the time like my life hack to save people's lives is first of all never text and drive but unless it's an emergency. Don't use your phone when there are other people around. There was a time when people talked on the telephone right. And you would never talk on the telephone in the middle of a restaurant like there wasn't going to be a payphone in the middle of a restaurant when it be communicating with somebody not in the restaurant unless it was the movie Where he had a phone brought over to his handball which which I enjoy. That's right if you're if you're rich air out and you're an alcoholic and your play by deadly more. You can do whatever you want. Oh rich are you can tell you is. I wish I haven't dime for every time I have service is terrible. Well I drink. That's always engine room house budget. There's always comes back to Delhi more movies. I think I I. I am clearly fixated. The things that that our modern cool with us is pediatric endocrinologists. Robert Lusty Hi Rob. Thank you so much for being here. It is my pleasure to be here. Thank you most. So even first came to public prominence for a lot of people when a video of one of your lectures went viral. The reason I show this is not just to show that the obese are getting obese or of course that's true but in fact the entire curve has shifted we all way twenty five pounds more today than we did twenty five years ago all of us tell us a bit about your background and what you do videos. The Bane of my existence really You know I didn't even think my mother would and she didn't and we'll sudden they're seven quarter million people The bottom line is I had absolutely no interest in being a public figure on the other hand I saw it was going on with children. I take care of children and for every Child I treated ten more. Were showing on my doorstep with obesity. Type two diabetes hypertension lipid problems early signs of heart. Disease Fatty liver disease. These are diseases that we never saw on children before. These diseases reserved for adults. And we're losing an entire generation when it became clear to me from a science standpoint what the problem was and realize that no one was approaching it or talking about it. I felt I needed to be talked about and so I did do that. Lecture it did by HAPPENSTANCE END UP ON YOUTUBE. And even by more happenstance it went viral. And since that time people have been looking to me for the answers. I am an accidental warrior. I'm not looking for fame and fortune. I'm just trying to fix a problem and it's a problem that I was sworn to fix you. Know as a pediatrician. So what led you from writing and talking about sugar to writing the hacking of the American mind. I was giving a grand rounds in psychiatry at a medical school here. United States and the woman who ran their outpatient recovery facility was giving me a tour of their facilities and she herself was a recovering heroin addict and she said to me. I was asking her. What being cleaned meant to her and she said when I was shooting up I was happy. What my new life has given me is pleasure. I thought to myself that's not right. That's opposite that is totally screwed up and But I went home in. That really bothered me and then We can have later. I was talking to my sister in law. Who Used to run the help desk at Pillsbury before they were taken over by General Mills and you know they would do things you know the people call in about problems with the ice crystals in there. You know poppin fresh dough and stuff like that. They were long gone that group but they were still all friends and they had a yearly gourmet club and they just had the gourmet club and the woman who had just had bariatric surgery. Said to my sister-in-law always looked so thin. How'd you do that and also I only eat when I'm hungry? And the woman said eating for hunger eating is about happiness again so jarring but of course I had heard that story before having been an OB physician for thirty some odd years You know hearing that from children from adults and I just went you know this is to obviously a big problem and it basically spurred me on through the book so you talk about pleasure and happiness being different. Can you explain that a little bit? So these are terms. That have been confused and conflicted. If you go online right now and Google pleasure or happiness. You will see the definitions. Virtually identical almost interchangeable the synonyms that we use for them. Go either way depending on. Who wrote it academics? Get it wrong too. I mean if you go right now to the Stanford Encyclopedia of philosophy and look up the word happiness it come like they have two definitions one is hedonism and the other is the life satisfaction theory now has hedonism equate with life satisfaction and why they both considered happiness. I am like totally befuddled and you should be because the current definitions don't work okay. So what is the difference between pleasure and happiness? There are seven. Pleasure is short lived like in a house like a good meal. Happinesses long-lived maybe a lifetime pleasure is visceral you feel it in your body happinesses ethereal. You feel it. Above the neck pleasure is taking like a casino happinesses giving like habitat for humanity. Pleasure can be achieved with substances like tobacco Alcohol Street drugs. Sugar and happiness cannot be achieved with substances. Pleasure is experienced alone. Now a of people often get pleasure. D- together but you experience it alone whether it be at a beer party or Token on a on a joint whereas happiness is usually experienced in social groups the reason for religion. It's the reason for clubs. It's the reason why people congregating together families the extremes of pleasure no matter whether they're behaviors or substances doesn't matter all lead to addiction in the extreme. Where's there's no such thing as being addicted too much happiness and then finally number seven the you know sort of PSI exists. Pleasure is dopamine and happiness is Serotonin so two different biochemicals two different neurotransmitters. To different areas of the brain that they work on two different sets of receptors two different modes of regulation and. Here's why it matters. Dopamine isn't excited Tori neurotransmitter so neurons. WanNa be excited but they WANNA be. Shall we say tickled a brief? Ex- citation they don't WANNA BE BLUDGEONED CHRONIC CITATION. Neurons are very temperamental. And they're very fragile. They require a lot of energy all the time. Which is why you have to maintain glucose or your brain goes kaput. If you over stimulate a neuron it will die. Chronic over stimulation of neurons by excited Tori neurotransmitters cause neuronal cell death so the Neuron has a backup plan. It has a defense mechanism. It HASN'T OPTION B. And what it does is it down. Regulates the receptor for that neurotransmitter. In order for fewer neurotransmitters to be able to bind to receptors because there are fewer receptors in other words. It's protecting itself by downing the gain so the way it works in human terms. Is You get a hit you? GotTa Rush Receptors. Good down next time you need a bigger hit to get the same rush and the receptors go down and they bigger a bigger and bigger until finally a huge head to get nothing that's called tolerance and then when the neurons start to die that's called addiction. Dopamine drives its own receptor down which is why the first bite of ice cream tastes unbelievably. Good and the last maybe not. So much on the other hand. Serotonin isn't inhibitory neurotransmitter. It does not excite the next neuron it actually slows down and actually stops the next from firing and that is the feeling of contentment is the downing of that firing rate. Well because its inhibitory. You don't need to down regulate the receptors. Because we're not going to destroy the non we're GONNA actually put it to rest so you can't overdose on too much happiness. But there's one thing that down regulates serotonin dopamine so the more pleasure. You seek the more unhappy you get. And that is a paradigm that people kind of know their science to it and we understand that their science to it. It has more of a force in terms of what it means for how you're gonNA live your life. You've said that the American economy is based on substances that Dr Pleasure. Can you explain that? There's gasoline and we can talk about that being a head-on substance and you can say well you don't take it internally that's true you don't take it internally but it is still a head-on ick substance and I can prove it because we have a phenomenon in economics called price elasticity so price elasticity is how much consumption changes when the price goes up and if something is price inelastic that is people still buy it even when the price goes up. Then that means it's a substance because it is not responding to market changes and gasoline certainly fits that criterion k. So we have gasoline. We have coffee. We have sugar. We have corn which gets turned into sugar and also gets turned into alcohol which is another head-on substance You get the picture If you look at the American economy and you look at our exports one through ten four of the top tenor had donald substances. I mean our mentor. American economy runs on this. So this is a big deal and it's one of the reasons we've been successful on the other hand. It's also one of the reasons that were addicted and depressed. Let's talk about the word hacking. Okay obviously we know a little something about hacking. We like to feel where on there were on the right side of the long terms of where we're white hat hackers as it were. That's on when you're talking about the hacking the American mind. Imagine you mean something very different. Can you talk about that? So Hack as you know is a relatively new term to the English lexicon. I mean prior to nineteen fifty five if you said the word Hack. You're no butchery okay. But that was it. in Nineteen fifty-five Mit Model Railroad Club's my Alma Mater. I use that Word Hack so. Initially the word meant a prank whose perpetrators demonstrated whimsey style and performance. You know in the enactment of the heck. That's definitely it's a group of MIT students Dug a hole underneath soldier field planted a weather balloon that mit all over it and ran a pump from behind the stands and it came out of the forty yard line just before the half of the Harvard Yale Game. I mean that's a heck all right so that was what hack meant and then. Silicon Valley appropriated the term to mean clever solutions to complex problems. Computer problems and that was now. You know squat white hat hacking but you know black hat hacking goes back a long way to goes back to nineteen sixty three when somebody commandeered the MIT mainframe computer from a remote site. And then of course. We all grew up with this notion of worms and viruses. You know well now. That's pretty darn common. I mean everyone gets emails. You know that are fishing. You know in order to render computers. vulnerable. We certainly heard a lot about hacking last year during the election. For obvious reasons. Welcome back to the lead this just into CNN. Russian hackers managed to infiltrate the computer network of the Democratic National Committee. And what information did they apparently zero in on well the OPPOSITION RESEARCH FILE ON ONE MR DONALD J trump. So you know hacking has taken on now a sinister tone. So what does this have to do with this book? Your brain doesn't run on computer code but it doesn't matter because what computer code is is disinformation a method for basically getting inside the workings. And guess what there are ways to get inside the workings of your brain and they are being done by outside forces and you don't even know it's happening just sitting here right now you're being hacked and you have to know in order to be able to fend it off so everybody knows about drugs and alcohol certainly substances that alter your perception of pleasure versus happiness because that's a hack that confusion and of course. We have things that are told to us on screens. And on TV. That aren't necessarily true. Some of them being propagated by corporations in order to get you to buy their product. Now we usually call that. Marketing and marketing is legal. You're allowed to market so says the Supreme Court what's the difference between marketing and propaganda. Marketing is using information to a spouse. Your point of view. Propaganda is using. Disinformation to a spouse. Your point of view and propaganda can be very effective and we have seen propaganda being extraordinarily effective. Just last November. Didn't we so the bottom line is we are being hacked can whether it be something political or something you know just purely monetary. This is happening all the time. I have nothing against marketing per se although I do have something against marketing to children. Because they're vulnerable and they can't tell the difference between the TV show in the commercial and yet the Supreme Court has said that it's fine for companies to market to children. It's one of the reasons we have this obesity Metabolic Syndrome problem that we have today and now everyone's being hacked with all sorts of Information. That is not information alternative facts fake news etc. This is all the hacking of the American mind and comes in twenty four seven on your cell phone. Consumption of disinformation like alternative facts trigger the dopamine centers in your brain absolutely we have the FM data to show that. What's interesting and this is very interesting. study that was done. Sam Harris was written many books. He's known as one of the four horsemen of atheism. He is an earth scientist and he wasn't neuro imaging at Ucla before he wrote all those books and he did a really really important interesting study. What he found was he took fifteen people who are very religious and he took fifteen people who atheists and he while they were in the FM ice scanner. He read them messages. That were either something that they could identify with or something. That was clearly alternate to that you know things about Jesus or things about afterlife or whatever but the ACS would clearly have a different mindset than the religious people would turn that whenever he would say a message that the person either way identified with their dopamine system went bunkers and when it was the other it was absolutely that quiet so when you hear things that support your life you you get a reward signal out of that turning that around for people is quite difficult as you can imagine because after all they're getting reward signals for you hearing that accounts for some of the reason for the schism in the media. It accounts for a lot of what's happened in today's society. We have stopped using our brains. We are in the vernacular we're using our lizard brain disorder information instead of our cognitive brain. How do we fight that especially with you know thinking about facebook and the onslaught of social media absolute opening? Rosh will probably getting all the time absolutely so the big issue is you know is media pleasure or is it happiness and the answer is pleasure if it's anything it sure ain't at this so there's plenty of data now on social media and it actually leads to depression. A part of the reason is because it ups your dopamine and downs your Serotonin and there are specific links in the brain as to why this happens is an area of your brain right in front of your eyes called the prefrontal. Cortex also known as your Jiminy cricket because it's part of your brain that keeps you from doing stupid things will. There's an easy way to deactivate your prefrontal CORTEX. It's called stress stress in Cortisol. Which of course courcelles the hormonal mediator of stress? Basically do a number on your prefrontal. Cortex and prefrontal CORTEX gets deactivated. Your dopamine goes great guns and when that happens and it keeps happening and then the dopamine. That's really addiction. That's what takes tolerance to addiction is the addition of Cortisol. So the fact of social media raising your cortisol and you cannot tell me that when a teenage girl looks at facebook and sees a dislike that does doesn't send her cortisol the roof so this is Very clearly a method for basically being able to get into your mind in ways that you didn't think possible is it insidious do companies like facebook. Are they trying to make us addicted to this cortisol surge that affects our dopamine? Is that what they have in mind? Absolutely and there are on record as having said so if you If your listeners will go right now on their URL to tristen Harris Sixty minutes He was also on the PBS Newshour. He is a former gulag. Who basically outed them for any company whose business model is advertising engagement based advertising. Meaning they care about the amount of time someone spends on the product You know they make more money. The more time people spend so the game becomes. How can I throw different persuasive techniques to get people to stay to spend as long as possible and to come back tomorrow and said there's two second delay when you open your g mail the mail POPs up and that two seconds is engineered into the product very specifically to heighten the tension to make it more important and I made kind of a slide deck manifesto they basically said never before in history have fifty mostly male twenty to thirty five year old designers living in California working at three tech companies influenced? How a billion people spend their time. So gentlemen by the name of near. Y'ALL BE Y. A. L. Wrote a book. He's a Silicon Valley Entrepreneur. You know sort of marketing genius if you wrote a book called hooked how to build habit forming products and their four components to the procedure. There's the trigger which for lack of better we can call each so they have to basically supply with an itch and email going offers a perfectly good K then the next piece is the action. Which is the scratch. So you get niche. Get a scratch but the scratch has to be something socially acceptable today checking. Your email is socially acceptable checking your cell phone and People. Now check their cell phone. One Hundred Fifty Times a day they do it subconsciously. They don't even know they're doing it now. If it were socially unacceptable it might be a little different. Have you heard about the business lunches where everybody puts their cell phones in the front in the center of the table? The first one that reaches for it has to pay. That's kind of cool. But you get the idea okay. third is called variable reward and variable reward. Means that you have to get something back but it doesn't necessarily have to be something good back. It could be something bad back but has to be inconsistent and random cash like a slot machine slot machines are variable reward. And you see people in Las Vegas. Just plunking the quarters and they don't even know what they're doing. They don't even care if money comes out or not. I'm just seeing these people. They're almost like automatons. Just clunk in the money in and sooner or later money's all but the point is that the reward has to be variable in order to turn it into a habit because if it's the same reward every time then there's no excitement like you get excited when you use your. Gps You know what's coming up right. It's a thrill. Every time a thrill to your. Gps okay. Well I think your life needs some more excitement. Okay but you get what I'm talking about. Okay it's got to be variable. And then fourth think of course the only one the company is interested in in is investment. That is you gotta plunk down a thousand dollars for a new iphone you know. We got eighty percent market. Saturation and ninety percent of people are already connected. I mean like why do you need to spend the thousand dollars on a new iphone? I mean give me one reason because you want to put virtual furniture in your room and then shoot zombies sitting in what I mean. Really so this is the point and so the marketers and the propagandists very specifically engineered and the concept of pleasure and happiness is also very specifically engineered. So that you don't know the difference. I can give you many examples. Most famous Coca Cola's longest running campaign of all open happiness happiness in that bottle now sugaring caffeine to hit domic substances pleasure. I won't argue pleasure. This pleasure and a coke but there ain't no happiness in factors metabolic syndrome in that bottle so happy hour happy meal if you go online and type into your browser happy. Twelve a M. This is for. Oh Williams song happy and he's in south central. La Walk in the streets at midnight. Goes into a convenience store gas station while he's singing happy and gets a Red Bull to candy bars and a bag of potato chips. Become if you're having red bull at midnight in south central. La You ain't happy. You're not gonna be sleeping anytime soon. So you're going to have sleep deprivation. Which is going to be even more unhappy all right. I mean you know. We could argue that you could be happy in central. La Midnight. Drinking Red Bill. I mean but you're you're experiencing pleasure is what you would say. This is not happiness. Not exactly what we're talking about this. I wonder if you have anything to say about the way that marketing Like how fast food? It's it's been revealed is predominantly into black communities so are different demographics being targeted differently and are therefore susceptible to addiction differently. Well so there are a definite Genetic differences in terms of the development of Metabolic Syndrome and Metabolic Syndrome is one of the drivers of low. Serotonin and depression. So that is very important. A little sugar makes a lot of liver. Fat in Latinos. So fatty liver. Disease is very common amongst Latinos forty five percent of all Latinos. Today have it and they also drink a lot of soda. A little sugar makes a lot of liver fat There are is definite targeting of low SAS communities if you go into those areas you know. The convenience stores basically serve up only convenience foods that can be packaged. Put on a shelf because they're cheap. Most Supermarkets have actually vacated these areas. You know the cold food deserts because it's so hard to have access to rational healthy food. I'm not saying specifically racial but it is specifically economic an economic often translates into racial in our society. And even more important. Is that depending on where you were born determines whether or not you can actually climb out of the ghetto that you were born in whether it be at the high end or the low end. So for instance if you're born in Bergen New Jersey. You have a seventeen percent chance of doing better than your parents. And if you were born in the Bronx you have a ten percent chance of doing worse having nothing to do with anything else having nothing to do with income having nothing to do with education having nothing to do with race. So it's very interesting that these dichotomies exist if you were born in La you have a much better chance of being able to extract yourself than if you were born in Baltimore and this goes on throughout the country and the data are really really solid. This is the economics of equality project. Run by Raj Chetty at Harvard a School of Government. So let's talk about the food industry. And how they've hacked our brains let's talk about Raisin Bran. Cereal was a bad invention. I know story actually. The story of cereal is a well told by Michael Pollen in his Movie and Book in Defense of food. They really wanted to dethrone protein. Which was the morning meal eggs and Bacon and sausage and they thought that carbohydrates were the clean blessed nutrient one day in one thousand nine hundred four. The brothers stumbled on a discovery. They hoped would transform the American breakfast. The flake cereal made mostly of carbohydrates. I came wheat flakes and then will invented the cornflake so wildly successful. It would make him wealthy. But John Kellogg's theories about the perils of protein not to mention his ideas about yogurt animas were eventually disproven by science. We look back on that and we think this is complete quackery. Well I hate to say it but someone will look back on us in one hundred years and say much the same thing for a lot of our own nutritional practices. Let's talk about the most recent commercial Scott raisins falling from the sky and says the road to your happy place is paved with raisins and flakes and pavement. Okay let's take that apart. It just seems. Like a terrible parable copyrighted. First of all I'm just a mess. Raisins and flakes and haven. So what they're saying is it's your fault so get off your duff and exercise. That's what they're saying. Pavement raisins inflates. Now let's look at the raisins. In that Ad. They are just raisins. But if you actually look at the raisins in Raisin Bran. They're not even Brown or black they are like why are they white? Because they're all covered with sugar. So if you go to the nutrition contrition facts label on the side the amount of raisins that would be in a cup of Raisin Bran would deliver you ten grams of sugar and therein raisins which is not a bad thing raisins refine but in Raisin Bran One cup delivers you. Eighteen grams of sugar. That means that eight grams of sugar is the coating on the raisins to make them sweeter so that you would eat them. So you think you're doing right. You think you're doing healthy and you're actually poisoning yourself. And then if you even take the next step up and go to Raisin Bran crunch twenty nine grams of sugar how yet they make health claims. What's healthy about that? So are they hacking our minds. Are they using disinformation to peddle their product? Absolutely and of course it's not just Kellogg's it's you know it's it's the whole kit and caboodle of them and we are getting sicker and stupider and fatter and broke because we can't afford to pay for this. Healthcare crisis seems to me like at least in my experience doctors and pediatricians. Don't focus that much on. Diet when you talk to them about your health if you are thin enough and you know you seem healthy. The the the competition around diet is never doesn't really seem to happen does that. Is that your experience? Absolutely first of all doctors don't learn new nutrition in medical school. I majored in nutrition in college. When I got to medical school I learned none. I also learned that in college that a calorie was not a calorie. And you know that this thing called nutritional biochemistry that different foods got metabolised in different ways and so it mattered and then I got to medical school and they basically told me. It's all about calories and basically forgot everything I learned and it wasn't until I started doing research in obesity back in the late nineties and early two thousands that I started saying wait a second. This can't be explained by calories and then I remembered everything one holy crap. I knew this forty years ago ended actually been beaten out of me. That's another reason why I think I'm so passionate about this. Issue is because we've actually had these data for a while and it's been buried six feet under and you know. I've been doing my best from a scientific standpoint to try to resurrect so doctors. Don't learn this stuff. What they are told. And this is a you know. Virtually a direct quote what they say. Is you eat too much? You exercise too little so that means that those are two behaviors gluttony and sloth. Therefore what they're saying is if you're fat. It's your fault. Therefore any food can be part of a balanced diet. You've heard that a few times. What they're really saying is you know. Don't pick on our calories. Go pick on somebody else's calories that's what's going on and and the doctors don't understand. In addition doctors only know about treatment. Because that's what we are taught we're not taught to prevent and there's no money in prevention. The money is in treatment. Unfortunately the money's gone out the window and we ain't treating anybody because everyone's getting sicker we. Now have a nine point. Four percent prevalence of diabetes in this country. Let's talk about the government's role in making us. So addicted and packing our brains will so the government gets money from all of those exports for instance processed food that's the government fifty-six billion a year in tariffs and taxes. That's a big number so think about this. We HAVE THE FARM BILL. That subsidizes sugar. And we get sick and then. The healthcare industry is in trouble and sixty. Five percent of healthcare dollars are paid by the federal government which means the tax payer cleaning up the mess from the Sugar Subsidy and now we want a soda tax. Right that's going on in several US cities so it's like you know triple taxation right. I mean it's that subsidy means a tax on everything else then. There's the medical costs which we call a fee but it's really a tax because we all have to pay it who's employers have to pay two thousand seven hundred and fifty dollars per employee for care of obesity diabetes whether the employees who are not and that filters down to all of us. And then we're talking about a tax. The point is why is government so schizophrenic? The answer is well. It's about the money. And the money comes. In two ways it comes from tariffs and it also comes under the table from lobbyists Congress and the Supreme Court through legislation. They've declawed the SEC. They've declawed the FTC. They've declared the EPA now an Osha. They have declawed all of the agencies that were here to basically keep corporations from taking over and now they've taken over a princeton philosopher named Sheldon Woolen. Who died two years ago? Very Brilliant Guy wrote a book called Democracy Inc and he coined the term inverse to Talibanism when Washington Inc became the same. And if you look at the White House so how do we Orient Ourselves towards happiness and away from pleasure? The best you can do is to protect yourself what you have to do. Is You have to down your dopamine and up your serotonin trade and little pleasure for some happiness and is actually relatively easy to do. In fact it's free and there are four things you can do. I call them the four CS there. In the book I one connect connection means interpersonal connection. Face to face connection. Like I'm doing right now with both of you were sitting at this table. And we're looking at each other and you're reading my facial expressions and that is translating via a set of neurons in your brain called Mirror neurons which are actually reading my facial expressions and translating that into empathy which is basically the driver of Serotonin so interpersonal connection face to face. So here's the question. Is facebook connection? It's certainly connectivity. But connection. In fact the data say facebook actually drive. Serotonin down perspectively. If you watch people using facebook who had not used the four within a two week timeframe you can actually show serotonin depletion and changes in the brain that are consistent with depression. So we have the neuro imaging data to say now that you know it's gotTa be eye-to-eye number to contribute contribution to the betterment of your family the betterment of your friends the betterment of the world at large but not specifically to you and it's not about credit it's not boy scout badges that's reward. We're talking about doing something that makes the world a better place that you feel better about living in that world now ken work serve as contribution. The answer's yes again with two provisos. You have to see that your work transcends your job and helps the world and your boss has to see it to both of those things are true you can derive contribution from your working that will up your Serotonin so people who work at jobs where they feel good about what they do can be happy because of it and spending money does not create happiness if the money spent on you. That's called pleasure if you spend the money on somebody else. That's called charity or philanthropy and that works that does also researcher number three cope and Cope's three specific things. Sleep TURNS OUT thirty. Five PERCENT OF AMERICANS. Now get less than seven hours of sleep and twenty three percents suffer from clinical insomnia and part of the reason for that is because the screens are in the room. While they're sleeping study of children showed that if they charge their cell phone in the room they get twenty eight minutes less sleep per night. Think his cell phones charge outside the room? So sleep and sleep is a big problem because sleep makes cortisol ago up and of course it all goes up you've deactivated PFC in your dopamine system's GonNa go great guns and you eat like there's no tomorrow and you also get pretty darn irritable next. Mindfulness we're not talking about necessarily assuming you know pilates posture or sending or you know having some months where I mean. That's all good. I'm but you don't have to go all that far okay. Mindfulness can just be not multitasking. Now everyone prices multitasking. It's you know like if you can't multitask you know you can't you can't work right. It's like everybody has to multitask but turns out. Only two point. Five percent of the population can actually do it. Everybody else is just serially. Unique tasking and making mistakes in the process as they go from one task to the next. And when you do that your cortisol goes up. So we have a problem with our culture in terms of this concept of multitasking or even when we're on twitter while watching television while eating are we doing any of them right might be eating right? But it's not prized by anybody else. It feels good. Well only for the moment right and ultimate takes its toll. The third one is exercise now. Everyone thinks exercises for You know burning calories and losing weight. There's not one single study in the entire world's lurch of the shows that exercise causes weight loss if anything causes weight gain and the reason because exercise builds muscle and muscles good cause muscle have might country might have country burn energy instead of storing it and that is good. But you don't have to lose weight so don't look at the scale. But turns out exercise raises your Serotonin in fact. Mindfulness plus exercise has been shown now in clinical trials to be as good or better than Sri's in alleviating depression and then lastly number four the best one cook. Why Cook because if you're cooking you know what you're eating when you go to a restaurant you don't have a clue what's in that food where came from what's been done to it. Cetera. You are hostage you our prisoner bundling. There's a lot of data shows the more times you eat out per day. The more chance you can have both obesity and Metabolic Syndrome so turns out. There are three things about food that matter in terms of Serotonin first trip defame trip to Feign is the rarest amino acid in our diet it is highest concentration in eggs little less in poultry. Turkey. Chicken some fish but you know cut hard to come by and our ancestors didn't really have a lot of access to trip the thing for the most part getting fruits and vegetables around. There's not much there But you need tripping nortre mixer. Tony now turns out that ninety nine percent of the of the trip to ain't never gets to your brain because metabolised in the gut were platelets. But if you don't get enough tryptophan up your brain. You're not going to be able to make Tony. Not GonNA be able to get that contentment. That happiness number two omega. Three fatty acids so mega. Three fatty acids are anti inflammatory. Turns out if you look at certain neurons on electron microscopy the ends of the neurons seemed to swell. It's an inflammatory response. And when you give the Animal Omega threes that gets better sir. Tony Nerve transmission improves. So we think that Omega threes are necessary for neuronal stability stabilizes neuronal membranes allows them to be somewhat dispensable and that is good for neuronal life and it also seems to therefore pro protect against Alzheimer's disease so Omega Threes. Pretty darn important but Omega threes are also hard to find in our diet. Where do we get them? While we get wild fish not farmed fish again. Another reason why processed foods initial wild fish. I mean the fish. They'll make the Omega threes. The fish eat the Omega threes. The algae make the Omega threes. The fish eat the algae. We eat the fish. That's how we get. We get a third hand. I can take fish oil but make sure it's from wild fish and then number three the one that drives. Cernan down fructose sugar at certainly raises Dopamine Day. I mean you know she was pleasurable. We don't argue that triggers in a fourth of July Apple Pie. And you know Valentine's Day but triggered actually down Serotonin and of course we are consuming double our sugar allotment in this country. We're supposed to be consuming six to nine teaspoons of added sugar per day. Maximum and we are up at a nineteen point. Five so that's another reason for Serotonin to below so if you eat real food. You'RE GONNA get more trip to feign moral mega threes less. Fructose Cook for yourself. Can you talk for a minute? About anti-depressants tells that people take effect Serotonin and dopamine in their brains. Because you know not knowing more than sort of the average person I've heard about antidepressants. That act on the dopamine in your brain and the binary that we're talking about is kind of like the. The dopamine is temporary. Pleasure focused in bed and the Serotonin is among lasting and good well who simply occasion We can go. There are so so the thing about serotonin neurons. That's really cool. Is They have auto receptors. It's kind of like the Thermostat in your house. You can set it to whatever level it's at came and then it will stay there so when it goes below the heat turns on when it goes above the heat turns off it just basically keeps you there so the Serotonin auto receptor does that to the serotonin neurons. So it's a feedback onto the same neuron. So basically what it says is don't fire too fast but also don't fire to slow. Just Keep Nice. Even Keel. Now if you're serotonin depleted then you need more Serotonin last year the SRI's come in because what they're doing is they're inhibiting the uptake. Which means they stay in the synapse longer. But that's not gonNA make you have more. It's just gonNA bring you back to like where you were and so. Ssi arise don't make you happy but they alleviate depression because they bring you back to where you were now getting more can also be complicated if those auto receptors. Are you know basically keeping your neurons from firing but most people are running at low? Ebb because they got less serotonin because their other systems like dopamine cortisol are altering it and stress. Because it down regulates the SEROTONIN RECEPTOR MEMBER. We talked about receptors. If you have fewer receptors there's fewer sites to bind which means you're going to get less effect so stress by reducing the serotonin receptor. Then it almost doesn't even matter what you're donen does because you don't have any receptors divine too so trying to reduce stress and up your Serotonin amplitude is what the name of. The game is here. And that means being mindful getting some sleep getting some exercise eating well. This is all stuff your parents told your grandparents told you the thing is in like you forgot. They didn't have the science so you didn't believe him. Oh well here's this iphone and really cool and you know there's that Kentucky Fried Chicken over there too and you know it's finger licking good and you know you're an addict and the medications that operate on dopamine in your brain to those work similarly to SR is no So the actually. There aren't a lot of medications that up your dopamine. They're Mo- medications that down your dopamine antagonists that's what in psychotics are in fact. This is one of the things we learned about dopamine. Which is China Really important and I WANNA make sure your listeners. Get this there is a disease of dopamine. Deficiency is called Parkinson's now Parkinson's is a motor disease. People can't move their rigidity. It's it's a mess gay and of course you know eventually if you don't treat it die and so back in the nineteen sixties at Memorial sloan-kettering right over here on on the side. They figured out that when they gave these people L. Dope so that's the precursor to dopamine. They will get better and their you know their rigidity improve. Their movement started to improve. They were able to talk. You know they could live you know at least somewhat life And so dopamine Replacement became a an important mode of therapy for Parkinson's what they also learned. Which was fascinating. Was that when they took these people with Parkinson's who were so completely incapacitated and gave them dopamine dopamine precursors all of a sudden they became compulsive gamblers they were looking for reward now turns out the reward system and the motor system. The substantial Agra the Parkinson's disease. Pathway are two completely different pathways but both both dopamine and so by upping the dopamine. These people were getting excessive. Need for award. And what's also interesting is that they have now shown in a small trial that people become religious zealots when they're dopamine goes way high so And you could sorta they get irritable. So there aren't a lot of dopamine agonists that are used for behavioral health for Parkinson's Scher most of the things we use dopamine antagonists in order to take people like schizophrenics wherever dopamine neuro transmission problem and bring it down. It's time for upgrade of the week every week. We talk about that one little thing. That's making a big difference in our lives. Melissa what's your upgrade this week. My upgrade is meditating in the morning and in the evening which sounds like a lot of meditating but it actually isn't. I have a regular meditation practice and the amount of time that I sit varies from day to day. But I've found that sitting an I typically Would sit in the evening before I went to bed. Because that's when I had time and I've found that sitting in the morning just for three minutes even it's not revolutionary as far as how dagoes but it's helpful. I feel it immediately. I notice it as far as practicing being present and the things that we've talked about in the podcast today. Just doing it for that. Short amount of time shows me. What could happen if I did it for a longer? So meditate more even if it's just for a few minutes. I don't do that that's okay. It's the good news is really easy. Good News Rob. What's your upgraded? This week a week ago. Today I retired. Oh my goodness is a great way upgrade crane graduate I ended my clinical practice still doing research and policy work and actually You need to reinvent yourself every ten years. You've heard that you know and so I'm doing that right now. became chief medical officer of a startup so You know so. Changing jobs can definitely be an upgrade. But if you're going to change jobs it has to be at least fifty percent improvement over your previous one to make it worth doing alice. What's your upgrade came. My upgrades much less exciting Did you retire? I've Regan? What had a long career Fakher three months and I feel like it's it's it's time time. I'm looking back at my long tenure No I have a book. Recommendation Grad. I I've been reading David sedaris is diary of theft by finding from the years. Nineteen seventy seven to two thousand two and I've just been finding it this delightful read and also reading this before. Bed is just a great alternative to the my normal reading which is either reading for work or reading a novel that I'm really involved in and then I stay up too late because I have to know what happened and in contrast a diary you know I kind of know what's happening to him. It's nothing there's nothing that's keeping me rain. But it's really funny and Witty and fascinating and I just find him to be a delightful person and it's delightful book so theft by finding excellent. Check it out. Well thank you. So much was really great and mind-blowing. Thank you for being here. No My pleasure thank you. And that's our show. The upgrade is produced by Levi sharp. Who's on twitter at? We've is sharp and you can come in the rest of the gang on twitter too. You can find me at Melissa Kirsch. You can find Alice at Vince. Lippi and you can find Dr Robert Rustic Robert Rustic MD. And of course you can find life. Hacker at life hacker our Executive Director of Audio Mon- Fiji Life. Hackers Managing Editor is Virginia K Smith Brad Fischer mixed the episode. Got An idea for a future episode. The upgrade just WANNA say hello email us at upgrade life hacker dot com world. Go old school and leave us a voice message at three four seven six eight seven eight one zero nine and you can always find us on panoply. Npr One and anywhere else. Who GETS HER PODCASTS? Follow Life Hacker on facebook at facebook dot com slash life hacker and you can find show notes for this and every episode of the upgrade at life honcker dot com slash the show.
Sugar and Why Your Baby Should Avoid it with Robert Lustig, MD, MSL
"When you look at baby food is all been spiked with sugar. Basically, what they're doing is they're hooking these kids are we have been feeding babies semi-solid food for Millennia Gate and they're still here hey, there I'm Katie Ferraro registered Dietitian college nutritional professor and Mama Seven specializing in baby led weaning here on the baby led weaning made easy podcast I help us trip all of the noise and nonsense about feeding leaving me with confidence and knowledge you need to give your baby a safe start to solid foods using baby led weaning. Hello and welcome back to another. Another episode of the baby led weaning made easy podcast. Today we are talking about sugar and more specifically why your baby should avoid it and I am so excited to have the big daddy of Sugar Research Himself, Dr Robert Lutz Dig on the podcast today with me to talk specifically about your babies and sugar. I. Know, you guys know baby should have added sugar but Dr Lusting is going to blow your mind about why babies are still having sugar even when we don't think they are and what we can do to help prevent it Dr Legg. If you're not familiar, he works at UCSF in San Francisco. He's a professor emeritus of Pediatrics and the division of endocrinology. So he specializes in this field called Neuro endocrinology and he has an emphasis on how energy balance is regulated by our central nervous system. So long and the short of it, he does all this research and clinical practice that focused on child obesity and diabetes, but has really honed in on the effects of sugar in the last I would say decade or. So Dr Legg, strongly, that the food business is pushing processed foods that are loaded with sugar that they've hacked our bodies and minds to pursue pleasure instead of happiness and that it's really one of the underlying causes for the fostering of some of today's epidemics of addiction and depression. But not to leave you guys depressed because that's a lot of heavy stuff. On real food, we can beat the odds against sugar processed food, obesity, and disease I am so honored the doctor dig is joining us I know him from our roles at UCSF. I teach in the graduate school of Nursing Teach Nutrition to future nurse practitioners and Dr. let's dig in the past has been grateful enough to do guests, interviews and lectures for my students at. And I've had the opportunity to work with the medical students on his side at UCSF as well. So I'm so grateful that he can join us today to talk a little bit of a different context, which is to you guys about your babies about sugar and how and why are babies should avoid sugar. So with no further ADO, here's Dr Robert Lustick well. Hello Dr Leslie. Thank you so much for joining me today. My Pleasure Katie. Thanks for having me. Now I know that sugar is confusing enough for an adult let. Alone, babies and your resource sugar sciences the authoritative source for evidence based Scientific Info about sugar and its impact on health. I was curious if you could tell her audience a little bit about the research and the education that you do surrounding sugar. Well, once upon a time, I, thought that all calories are the same and the reason I thought that was because that's what they taught me a medical school however doing research in nutrition and obesity it became very, very clean very obvious that in fact, galleries were not the same. Different calories were metabolize different ways in the body and therefore had different effects on disease, and one of the most notorious was sugar when I opened up my biochemistry text back in two thousand six. Noticed was that sugar was metabolize just like alcohol and the two diseases that children were now getting type two diabetes and fatty liver disease used to be the diseases of alcohol but children don't drink alcohol. So I put together talk for the National Institutes of health basically equating sugar that is specifically the molecule fructose and alcohol and asked the question could it be that sugars the alcohol the Child? To my amazement, these were toxicologists I was giving the talk to they would own my God you're absolutely right and this makes perfect sense you need to tell everybody about this, and so I basically start giving talks about this issue and basically altered my research program to look at this question and I have been following the leads ever since I've been investigating this. Now for about thirteen years and virtually, all the data has fallen into place and it has enormous implications for policy as well. Of course, for personalized nutrition and obviously for babies because when you look at baby food, it's all been spiked with sugar on purpose by the baby food industry because they know that babies love shorter in fact, babies prefer sugar for all sorts of. Mary reasons, and basically what they're doing is they're hooking these kids early in the same way you'd be. Loath. To give your two year old key to the liquor. Well it doesn't matter because you're giving it to them in baby food. So when you say that about you'd be lows to give it to your baby I always think about some of the foods that are marketed directly to kids. One of the easiest like the low hanging fruit are these yogurts that are for kids because they have so much added sugar to a product that already has natural sugar and milk sugar and say, would you take plane full fat? Yogurt and go to starbucks and take four packets of sugar up import in Your Babies Yogurt and server to your baby never parents knowing they call CPS on you. That's exactly what you're getting when you're serving your child a product that is twelve or sixteen grams of added sugar in it. So in addition a yogurts could you just give us some insight as to what other foods that babies are prone to eating that have hidden sugars in them about fruit loops For, those finger foods for kids you know along with Cheerios and every you know these. Well, honey nut cheerios that I mean parents don't know the difference between regular cheerios and honey nut cheerios than not to mention children shouldn't have baby shouldn't have honey but the honey nuts are not the basic cheerios if you look at the. Iron there's more sugar and I, think a lot of times which just confusion on the part of the parents hero cheerios are a good finger food which is not even true because at six and seven months of age when be start solids, they don't have their pincer grasp can't even pick up cheerios yet. So it's actually a food for older babies and not really very good one either it's sort of the prototypical first food for babies. I think that. That really needs to change I do too and acting is frustrating appearance. They see the baby if they can even get the food in their hand, they can't get it out of their fat little baby hand before they have their pincer grasp and parents say, Oh, well, I guess the baby can't feed themselves. I'll just go ahead and shove this arbitrary amount of period baby food into their mouths. So I mean basically virtually every baby food under the sun has. been spiked with added sugar on purpose so that the baby will accept it. So a simple quiz, how often do you have to give a savory food to a six month old before they will accept it we tally say between ten and fifteen times a baby Minnie to see a food before they like are accepted. Exactly. Right. Thirteen is the meeting. That's exactly good for you. Thank you. Glad at path your you this job for a reason. Okay it's so. Nice to hear someone else say besides myself that's really why you're here to reinforce the messages. But how often how many times do you have to give a sweet food to a six month old before they will accept it only like negative times they're going to reach out and take it from you in the and the reason is because number one there are lots of t one CR taste receptors on the tongue that a specific sugar and in fact, kids. The younger, the more prone they are to like it in their specific studies looking at this question. So the baby food industries, you know they know. And so they're very specifically spiking their foods with added sugar specifically. So the baby will accept it on the first try. So the mother goes, Oh, he likes it. Let me give up more this. than the kids brand for life well, and the parents feel good like if they're feeding a pouch, for example that says, it has Ceylan it it's essentially green colored applesauce and the parents feel empowered. Oh, I'm giving my baby a health foods Kale, but it's essentially applesauce with some green food coloring in it. Exactly. Right. These are some of the industry tactics that we are trying to battle back and I will also tell you. That that pureed food is a problem in and of itself even if it didn't have sugar in it because it's pureed. So this is a new line of research that I am embarking on along with a long-term colleague of mine. He's the world's first Paleo dont EST name is Dr Kevin Boyd and he's a North Western in Chicago and what he has demonstrated is that the tongue you know that is say breastfeeding the tongue is The primary stimulus to growing the Palette so there's pressure by the tongue on the hard palate during sucking which actually expense the Palette and increases there for the be area of the Airway and thereby you're growing the airway if you don't suck as hard and there are many different diseases that caused decreased sucking or where you don't allow sucking like for instance, if you have had surgical diversions of the intestine because of congenital. Abnormalities et CETERA. These kids don't grow their hard palate and they end up with Malik, Losin and obstructive sleep apnea later on and they get diagnosed as having extreme picky eating because they can't tolerate different textures. That's exactly right. Will of these things are associated together. So the question I'm asking and that Dr Boyd is asking is, how did we used to feed babies before the baby food industry entered our world know the very first Food was available in the Netherlands in nineteen twenty seven. And ever since then you know we've got Gerber Carnation and all the usual suspects. But you know we've had babies on this planet since. Time, immemorial how did babies get fed after breast milk from? You know whenever till nineteen seven perhaps modified versions of the same foods the rest of the family. Exactly. So what happened is the same thing that birds do the mothers would preach you and you know sort of domestication and some maceration of normal table foods and then plop it into the baby's mouth and the baby whether the baby had teeth or not as irrelevant they would come to this and what that did was it exercise the master and terrified muscles thereby increasing the strength of the bite. And that grew the MAC. Selah you didn't end up with baby over jet, which is a form of Malik collusion and what they also did was increased again, the Palatal Walt thereby increasing the airway. So what we have been doing by feeding our kids pureed food extensively with the notion that we're going to prevent them from Shokhin is we've actually instead given them a new set of diseases. Okay. Can we talk for a second about juice I? Feel like most parents know the American. Academy. Of pediatrics guidelines about no juice for babies and super small amounts for toddler. Athletic it's funny if you look at the guy four next for a one, two, three year old, which if you look at your typical size juice box at six or seven ounces like what are you going to take the juice box away from toddler halfway through you can't do that. But for older kids, a lot of parents mistakenly think that kids need use. Could you please tell us why they don't need use? They don't need shoes. They need the vitamins, minerals and fiber of fruit. Now, the question is what happens to fruit when it goes from fruit juice I always conjure up your orange analogy do it for the college students all the time like if you were to take five oranges and mash them down into orange juice and throw the pope away that's where all the fiber is quickly ingest approximately five times or fruit sugar than you would. If you were just eaten one orange, you sit down and gobble five oranges. So you're eating more fiber by eating the fruit and eating sugar is that correct? Exactly so my colleague and Co Author. Cindy Gershon who is a nutrition teacher in the mount the Oslo Unified School district over in East Bay in Contra. Costa. County every single year first day she doesn't experiment. To kids out of class, she has each kid six oranges. Says the first kid. Okay. Get. Here's six oranges make juice. Kids squeezes the six oranges gets twelve and a half ounces downs the entire glass and says, okay what's for breakfast? Second kid she says here kid here's six orange juice eat the six oranges kiddies orange number one orange number two. Orange number three. GETS TO ORANGE number four and throws up always on orange number four cindy's got the vomit. And, the kid goes, oh my God and good to die, and then the kid doesn't eat lunch or dinner either. So what happened a fiber happened fiber and there are two kinds of fiber. Soluble and insoluble cyber fiber is like pectins like would holds jelly together insoluble is like cellulose like the stringy sutton seller you need both and the reason you need both is because what happens is when you have the two together, you form an impenetrable secondary barrier on the inside of your intestines inside of your wadden early part of your intestine where the sugars, the glucose fructose lactose. All get absorbed in that early part of the intestine. So you might like think of it like a fish net with Kelp you know lining it. It's a lot harder to you know catch fish when you can't drag a net hind you because it's gotten all full of seaweed. Another example let's Tak- Spaghetti colander you know metal Doo Hickey with holes. Run the water goes right through. Okay. Now, take a Blob of Petroleum Jelly intro it into the center of the colander run. The water still goes right through bounces off the Jelly. But so now take your finger and rub rub the Petroleum Jelly all the way around the inside of the colander now run the water. I have an impenetrable barrier. So imagine that the colander is like the insoluble fiber, the fish net imagine the Siobhaun fiber is like petroleum jelly like the Kelp. In what you can see is that both the stable insoluble fiber and the geometry of these two things together, actually restrict and reduce the rate of carbohydrate particularly sugar absorption from the gut into the bloodstream so that delivered doesn't get overwhelmed in. Are we talking about fiber from naturally occurring foods or does this include like the functional fibers like inland and the ones that are? Added, to a lot of diet foods, the parents might inadvertently feeding to their babies and not realize they're not good for them. So those fibers like in Ulan Cillian Sarah are all soluble fiber now. So fibers not necessarily bad metamucil is an example I mess, but they can't set up that Gel alone they cannot make that barrier without the fishnet without the Spaghetti colander. So. Fiber to foods like fiber one bars or like you said adding in. Ulan. Is Not doing the job by itself you need both. And inside of the problem is that once the fiber has been stripped out of the food is primarily the insightful fiber that stripped out of food, the pulp that goes into the wastebasket when you juice a fruit or when you smoothie it, you know basically what you're doing is you're taking the insoluble fiber and sharing to smithereens with the blades of the vitamix of the breathable. So now you can't setup that GEL. Now, you can't make that in secondary barrier and so adding Siobhan fiber is not going to fix that problem. So in essence, those added fiber foodstuffs are somewhat disingenuous because not really recapitulating the fact that the fibers been taken out of food. And you can't add insoluble fiber back to food because it's not missile, it will dissolve. So you really need real food it's really about real food and a new book coming out in May called metabolical the Lauren, the lies of processed food nutrition and modern medicine which will explain that it's not what's in the food is what's been done to the food that matters and that's not on any food light and one thing I like to my parents they sometimes get bogged down in the details of insoluble. It's like take a half a cup of oatmeal or take an apple. They've four grams of fiber to soluble and insoluble if you lead a variety of. Foods that are naturally occurring sources of fiber you're going to get both a soluble and insoluble and the benefits from both don't over think it and don't go selecting foods that have more or less added to it but I wanna go back to what you said about the vitamix because I think that's an important concept is that a lot of parents especially with older kids who quote unquote don't eat vegetables they'll throw it on a blender period to smithereens put it was something like applesauce or sweetened yogurt, and then say they're feeding their babies vegetables but nothing that you would have essentially advise against because they're not going to be getting the same nutritive benefit. If they had had perhaps a semi solid soft cooked butternut squash versus a period possible Internet squash. Exactly. So basically what you're doing is you are getting rid of one of the primary components of the food that is helping not feed you but rather feed your bacteria, feed, your microbial feed, your intestinal bacteria, and what we have learned is that in order for food to be healthy, it needs to do two things. Two things protect deliver she the gut those to any food that does both is healthy. Any food that does neither is poisoning any food that does one or the other but not both is somewhere in the middle, all of these pureed and vitamix. Are. Somewhere, in the middle, because you're feeding the gut because you still have the soluble fiber, which the gut will use to make short chain, fatty acids which are anti inflammatory and anti insulin which are good but you have destroyed the insoluble fiber. So you are not protecting the liver and so the liver still gets Nami of all of that extra sugar. When we have shown that with you know Blood Glucose excursions let's take three. Separate items, apples, applesauce, and apple juice day same number of calories. You give them to a person and you measure the blood glucose rise after each of obviously with the apple juice, you get a big because rise with the apples you get very little because rise. What do you get with the applesauce pry the juice? same is the juice Zachary right same as Jewish, and that's the point of it is that you're not protecting your liver. Hieroglyphic week, excursion a basically, the more your liver has to deal with, and that's where the chronic metabolic disease comes in because the liver is GonNa take that extra sugar and turn it into liver fat and that's why all these kids are now getting fatty liver disease. When he a fatty liver disease, you know it's just a matter matter of you know when you're GONNA get type two diabetes and your apple analogy is very appropriate for this audience because we talk about Apple's if you look at emergency department emission data for nonfatal choking incidents in children and infants, apples are up there. We can't feed baby six to twelve months of age. Raw intact apples but we can show them to parboil and cook them. So they're just soft enough so that then from a texture standpoint, it's safer for babies to eat the nice parents say why don't you just blasted into smithereens do applesauce or do apple juice but you're saying that the more cooked it is that it would essentially be less helpful for the baby and is it okay then to do the soft cooked apples because obviously need to prevent choking risk? Yeah. You know look no one's for Jokin in on anybody's ever seen their baby choke. It's pretty awful. I don't argue that the fact matter is we have been feeding babies. semi-solid food for Millennia Gate and they're still here and this whole pureed pouch phase that the process baby food industry is going through is clearly contributing to the problem and we need to revert back because now we understand it is very clear in developing countries that are adopting our way of life of the data. Are It really really robust in China and if you look at the incidents of Malik Lesion in China? Back. In nineteen ninety, it was virtually nonexistent, and now it's like ten percent of the population and obesity has gone up commensurately i. mean they basically followed the exact same and we're talking about Colby seed toddlers the following the exact same trajectory, and we also have the data on obstructive sleep at the as well. So we know that this is what's going on the question is what are we going to do to fix it? We have to rethink how we feed our babies and we're pretty set on why babies definitely do not need any added sugars but the parents and caregivers who are listening they're adults faced with many of the same dilemmas like the food places confusing and I love the subtitle of your book. It's not you know what's in the food is what we do to the food so When parents are crews in aisles at the grocery store and all these foods are stuff with added sugar. Do you have any tips for parents as the purchasers of food in our households, what they can do to minimize added sugars? Yes. Really easy stay out of the grocery store that's very easy to do during the pandemic but what do you eat? Then we fact matter is. Go the aisle Zyuganov's the ranch. All of the food that you should be eating is on at the perimeter of the grocery store and most of it is in refrigerator aisles. So if you stick to the meats and the chickens and pork and produce, you are in fine shape. If you start looking for canned or tinned or boxed or rapper D-, food, and they're all shelf stable and that's on purpose night got a problem. So there's plenty eat. About twenty five percent of the grocery store is still edible. I haven't taken that much away. The problem of course is that's where all the added sugar is, and that's also where all the where the lack of fiber is is on those shelves because you can't freeze fiber in approval to you taken orange put it in your freezer overnight take it out the next day. Put on the counter. Let it faw try to eat it. See what you get. You get much widey get much the ice crystals that form Macerata the cell wall water Russian. Food Industry knows that. So what do they do? Squeeze it and freeze it out last forever, they've turned a food, an orange into a commodity frozen concentrated orange juice. You can sell it on the commodities exchange anybody ever the movie trading places as what it was all about at the end, the commodities exchange the frozen concentrated orange juice own with with the pork bellies and things like that. So bottom line, the food industry makes boatloads of money poisoning us by altering the food. adulterating the food in such a way as to actually make us sick. Okay. Back to the grocery store. What about legumes in the middle I'm not playing devil's advocate just like I'd AU pairs are going to be like a million messages about potentially helpful foods that are not on the perimeter. How do you feel about legumes like we recommend them for babies they pincer crafts because good source is placed iron, but there's iron protein there's fiber affordable different textures tastes are you anti-legal fiber? Set loza fiber go for it. In fact the we now know that the earlier you introduce peanuts into a baby's diet the less likely they are to get peanut allergy correct. Our parents know that as well. But one thing we caution them about is don't go overboard on fiber because you can inadvertently do is caused baby to be inadvertently full or artificially full from all that fiber at which point. there. Then displacing other healthful foods and the ability to learn how to recognize respond to their hunger and fullness. Q.. So again, don't go pushing tons and tons of fiber but you're saying choose foods that are naturally occurring sources of fiber. Yeah I mean I certainly wouldn't stick metamucil Donna Kids Gullit but if you just eat real food and you know peanuts are fine obviously everybody's worried about gas spreading peanut. You could even grind them up if you want if you're that concern, but the fact matter is try to stick to fiber containing foods legumes certainly have them. You know beans lentils. kim-wah Wa Pharaoh etc or all fiber containing they are stable Jack to cook them in order to get them to be edible. But they provide both carbohydrates and fiber. They have loads of micronutrients. They have loads of vitamins and minerals as well. So they're highly nutrient dense foods and as long as they still have the external fiber insoluble fiber, they are good choice. Because they are protecting the liver and feeding the doctor. I can't thank you enough for sharing all of this information, not only just about sugar but about fiber think it's so important for parents and caregivers to hear and to know you know we need to be a little bit more discerning customers at the store especially when we're buying foods for our early eaters. So. If you could tell where the audience can go to learn more about your work, your research surrounding sugar, as well as your books as well that especially the new book sounds really interesting your dog. Last thing I want to leave your audience with his just remember that real food is low sugar high fiber and processed food is high sugar low fiber processed. Food is killing us. It's that simple. In fact I'm just written an article called ultra processed foods addictive, toxic and ready for regulation. So my website is Robert Lusty Dot com I also am the Chief Medical Officer of a nonprofit here in the bay area eat real where we are getting real food into California a unified school district schools in the East Bay we. Have removed two hundred seventy thousand pounds of sugar from the Mount Diablo Unified School district in one year at ten pounds of sugar per kid frontier year by getting real food into the schools, and there's a method and madness to what we do and you can find us on April Dot Org my new book is called metabolical and you can find it at. METABOLICAL DOT COM on Amazon it's not available yet it will be available on May fourth but you can pre-order and what I do is I take the medical profession to task as we screwed up big time because we let the food industry and big Pharma dictate our policies and I basically take those all apart and deconstruct them for the reader and for the politicians There are several resources that UCSF sponsors, for instance, sugar science, Dot Org which is a group of independent scientists at UCSF and emory and a few other institutions who have vetted eight thousand clinical research articles and stilted into five ges for the general public with infographics and posters and things that you can put up in class at Cetera I was in the. Movie Fed Up, which is a documentary about how we got where we are today in terms of our processed food tobacco I was in a documentary called sugar coated, which explains why we got to where we are today in terms of are processed foods tobacco and I'm around Youtube Yeah you are you have one of sorry but the longest most viral videos ever like. Long and yet people watch it to the end. Can you tell them just as like a link to it in the show notes for this episode can give us the run out on that to be honest. I've never made it to the end, but I know a lot of millions of people have called sugar the bitter truth it's a UCSF Mini Med school for the public lecture. I gave in two thousand nine and it is ninety minutes of carbohydrate biochemistry. I never thought even my mother would watchet let alone. Eleven point, two, million people and still going strong and I gotTA. Tell you Katie I have no idea why it caught on but it did and it's viral and you know everything in it is still true. I've done a few of that Midi Med, school presentations as well, and I still get questions like I started doing maybe ten years ago and people go back and watch them people really love that content nowhere near the views that year people have. It's amazing that like people will find this watch the whole thing. And then send you very detailed tear ucsf email. I'm sure you get them all the time too. So I know that still out there and I know people still care and you know what we're seeing is a cultural tectonic shift in food people say, how can you change something that's so embedded in so ingrained well, you have been four count four separate cultural tectonic shifts in the last thirty years in America and here they are number one bicycle helmet seatbelts number two smoking in public places number three drunk driving number. Four condoms and bathrooms thirty years ago. Every single one of those was in Nasima if a legislator stood up in State House or Congress or parliament or anywhere in the world and proposed legislation for any of those that have gotten last right Outta town been written out on a rail nanny state liberty interest get Outta my kitchen get Outta my bathroom get out of my car today facs a life, and if you don't click your seatbelt when you pull out of your driveway, your kids will scream at you why is That happened and why did it take thirty years in Sir? We taught the children and the children grew up. They vote. And the naysayers are dead. This is why these are cultural tectonic shifts and it also explains why it takes thirty years while we are in a cultural tectonic shifts around food but we're only about seven to eight years into it. So we have a little bit more to, but we're doing it. Well, thank you so much. This was amazing. Why Pleasure Katie, anytime that's base. You're a walking I mean I know you do the points over and over. But it's I think the visuals you do are so great to the orange one gets parents. I literally remember like I knew how that story would end that the kid is gonNA vomit like I've heard you say that story that really sticks with parents and I love the infographics on the sugar science website I think no one's GonNa read eight thousand articles but I'll look at five infographics. So thank you for making it digestible for us not A. Problem insulated on. You know open gets out there Hopi bowed digest the message. Awesome. Well, thank you so much Dr Lest I really appreciate it guys they hope you loved that episode with Dr Legg I know it was a little bit on the longer side, but like you cannot cut him off like I just I could listen to him all day long like okay I never made it through the ninety minute youtube video, but I'm going to link. To it in the show notes for you guys. He has a lot of great resources that he mentioned today. So if you go to be, L. W., podcast dot com forward slash sixty eight I'll send you to his website to his research lab at UC San Francisco if you teach nutrition there's some great great infographics in there s he said his team has condensed eight thousand peer reviewed clinical articles like down into some really really really helpful infographics. Research briefs and summaries, and then also some of his books are there as well as all the movies that he's been featured in the he's super famous than the world of sugar and again I'm so grateful that he joined us today to talk in particular about babies also be linking to the book that he's going to be putting out a relatively soon as he mentioned, it's going to come out in May of twenty, twenty one, it's called metabolical. And again, his focus as you know, it's not what's in the food it's what's been done to the food. So really pushing back against this processed food industry, and so if you walk away with nothing today, made it to the end of the podcast though thank you for listening this long. But remember he said you can't freeze fiber that the food industry loves to squeeze IT and freeze it. So he's talking about how processing of many foods attorneys For example a lot about juice that that would definitely be something we don't need to feed our babies I. Loved his messaging about how babies have been eating period semi solid foods for Millennia and they're still here. So you guys doing awesome job by feeding your babies rail food I know it's hard. I know those pouches are convenient and they are sometimes irresistible but no in the long run, it's really more important for your baby to be eating. Real whole intact foods albeit provided that they're prepared safely as he thought, he said nobody's for choking. Yes. Correct Dr lessig nobody's for choking hope we can make these real food safe for babies. They don't need to just have pureed foods the thanks again, you guys so much for listening to this interview with Dr Lusted, could appeal to podcast cast dot com forward slash sixty eight for all of the links from this episode and I'll see you next time.
Dangers Of Sugar; Overestimating Immigrants' Use Of Public Assistance
"From NPR and WB YOU are. I'm Tanya Moseley. I'm Robin Young. It's here and now house speaker. Nancy Pelosi plans to meet with Democrats tomorrow to talk about an impeachment trial. Republicans publican's are trying to clarify the president's uncorroborated claim that Iranian General Qassem Sulaimaniyah was killed. Because he was about to attack four American embassies today day. President Trump tweeted out. It doesn't matter how imminent Soleimani had a bad history. Iranians angry about the assassination furious at their own leaders from mistakenly downing that that Ukrainian airliner killing one hundred seventy six people. Let's bring in Senator. Chris Murphy a Democrat from Connecticut on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee senator. Where in in your view are we now on Iran? I think we are right now. In a fairly precarious position We can talk about the lack of intelligence about an imminent threat. Read that led up to the attack on Sola Mani but probably the most serious consequence of that is that the Iraqis now I want. US forces out of that country about five thousand troops there that are continuing to take the fight to isis. Obviously one of the most brutal terrorist organizations in the world that is in the process of regrouping today and if the United States is kicked out of Iraq and then it has real upside for Isis. They will be able to get stronger downside for US national security interests. So that's maybe what I worry most about today but the Intel in the analysis of it shifts. I also really worried about this administration's credibility I mean it is really exceptional to mislead the American public. About why you struck out against it's another country and I think they've got sort of be very clear about this soon whether there really wasn't imminent attack or whether they just wanted to kill Qassams Sulamani and did it when they had the opportunity because the worst thing you can do when it comes to the national security power the president of the American people about why you're putting our troops at risk overseas as you will defense secretary mark. Esperer tried to clarify the president's remarks that he believed the general was planning attacks on four. US embassies embassies here is on CBS. Being pressed for details by face the nation host Margaret Brennan probably could have been that is that sounds more like an assessment assessment then a specific tangible threat with a decisive piece of intelligence or the president didn't say a tangible he didn't say the specific piece of evidence that's what he says he probably he believes. Are you saying one. I didn't see one with regard to four embassies. I didn't see one with regard to for embassies now. You were briefed by Espera. Last Wednesday just is to back that up. Did he mention imminent attacks on embassies. Then no we were in a seventy five minute briefing. If they had evidence of of planned attacks against embassies would have mentioned it because they were getting press. Pretty hard by senators on their lack of information regarding an imminent threat and it's not just that trump trump said that there was a threat against embassy secretary of state pump. Heo said that at the end of last week as well and so I think this is. I've never seen this. I've never seen excuse me. I'm so sorry to interrupt but we have seen this in that in the war in Iraq we saw claims of weapons of mass destruction. That didn't exist. Well I guess what I was going to say is that I've never seen a secretary of defense. So clearly conflicting the rationale for a military strike being given by the Secretary of state which speaks to the dysfunction in this administration of course we've seen prior administrations misconstrue intelligence intelligence in the lead up to war. Which is why we all have to be very clear that only Congress has the power to declare war not the president and I also worry that we're not done I? I just think that the Iranians or proxies in Iraq may take out further future strikes. And that's why we need to make it clear right now that it's only the United United States Congress that can make the decision moving forward to take additional strikes against Iran or their proxies. We want to quickly get your thoughts on the possible impeachment trial which may start end of this week next week or not at all. President trump has been tweeting out. Now there should be no trial and on ABC. Yesterday House Speaker. Nancy Pelosi criticized the Senate majority leader. Mitch McConnell for signing onto a resolution dismissing this case if Pelosi doesn't send over the two articles which she has not sent over yet dismissing is a cover up if they want to go that route again. They're senators who are thinking now about voting for witnesses or not they will have to be accountable. Call for not having a fair. Do you think the Democrats have the votes in the muscle to get witnesses like John Bolton. I don't know ah I think we're going to have to wait until those votes are before the United States Senate. I have a hard time figuring out how Republican senators could vote to willingly box their ears and closed their eyes. When John Bolton clearly says he has a story to tell ultimately they may vote to acquit the president? But I think it'll be really hard to tell their constituents that they didn't want information that was being offered to the United States Senate so I think it's going to take a Democrats bringing votes up on the Senate floor to get witnesses and documents and I think there's a good chance we'll have more than four Republican votes. But I really don't know Senator Chris Murphy. The Democrat from Connecticut. Thank you so much. Thanks millions of Puerto Ricans are waiting to see if president trump will authorize much needed aid after several earthquakes devastated parts of the island. The latest I five point nine magnitude quake on Saturday the strongest. Since last week six point four earthquake thousands of people are still in shelters and many others are sleeping sleeping outside joining us now for more. Is Michael Fernandez. Executive Director of chorus a nonprofit based in Puerto Rico. He's in Catania near San Juan. On and Michael. You're worried about the impact on school. Children tell us more. I think that we may very well be facing an educational L. Crisis in terms of how the we manage classes being reinitiated not only in the towns that were severely impacted by the earthquake but for the rest of the system as we are conducting evaluations of infrastructure. We will be learning whether or not dying structure suffered damage but also if that infrastructure restructure would be able to withstand on earthquake. And this is something that's very present in the mind off every Puerto Rican since we have all seen the images of the school that collapsed collapsed during the earthquake of January seventh and so the logistics of. How do we offer a safe shelter for our students to learn is something that we need to start thinking about in proactively planning to consider you know how we can do it in the best way? Yeah most of the children had been on holiday. I was during the holiday season when these earthquakes hit and now they can't go back to school. you're nonprofit is opening in community centers to host workshops to help the kids manage everything going on in process. What they're seeing? Yes ma'am so. We are opening on extended hours to receive students. were out of school and try to help them to get back to some sort of a daily routine. We're basing this. On the experience of Hurricane. Maria were schools for out of session for several months. And we know the impact that has on the emotional civility of our students in our families. There was a deep impact to school all infrastructure after Hurricane Maria but there were also the closing of nearly two hundred schools even before that Because of this deep and prolonged debt crisis. Can you talk a little bit more about in the light of all of that why. This is so significant. That's I if you look at the past five years. Our economy has failed. Then we had hurricanes hit a mine muddy We had a political crisis where we were able to house the governor over the summer summer now this. I think it's been a lot of profound changes to our daily lives and our projections for the future so it it wastes heavily on everybody emotionally emotionally and physically. It doesn't mean that Inter our spirit is down. It's just that we've been through a lot in the past five years seismologists say that these quakes could continue for a couple of weeks so there's a lot of uncertainty here. Can you just describe to me. The sentiment and how people are feeling reacting there right now. I think that there's too many motions that have come together and one is one. Oh thanks -iety because it's very hard to predict whether or not there will be another earthquake and whether or not or infrastructure will withstand but it is also that the sense of resiliency that we all have that help us overcome the challenges of Hurricane Maria the economic on making political challenges that the country has faced than now again with this earthquake our spirit of perseverance very present and that would be independent of any declaration Asian of the precedent that we know has previously taken a discriminatory stance towards the island. And so obviously we would love for that declaration to take place But we're willing and able to one needs to get done in spite of any form of government whether it's our local government or the federal government at the same time being able able to have that funding. I'm sure would be a great help in all of this to you What are you hearing about damage assessment? So far well that everything thing is backed up. Because it's any assessment that had been made previous to Saturday needs to be done again because of that on on Saturday and I'm surprised with some of our infrastructure where we thought we were a lot better off than where we are. Which means that? That will alter our contingency plan since arms of how to manage Josh this situation and again I I think that what you know one of the main areas besides the crisis that is going on in the in the south is how do we restored our public school system. I know the Department of Education is active in working on those plans but in terms of witches. It's just a complicated scenario. Dario with a lot of uncertainty Michael Fernandez is Executive Director of Carson nonprofit based in Puerto Rico. Michael thank you so much for for your time. Thank you but also to the Americans on the mainland half always Reached after us and you know just shared with us that it means a lot so we appreciate it very much. So how are those New Year's resolutions. It's going if one of them was to climb on board the very crowded less sugar in twenty twenty trained. You're probably horrified to find out how insidiously sugar and it's evil evil twin. Fructose have been added to our food. There's a teaspoon of sugar and every tablespoon of Ketchup. Our next Guest Says Food Has Been Adulterated poisoned. And he's not kidding. He says sugar plays a central role in health problems including an epidemic of obesity in infants as young as six months that it's as dangerous as smoking or abusive alcohol. ooh And if you're doing the New York Times seven-day sugar challenge. They say even grapes and Bananas Have Too much sugar dot. Robert Lusty is professor of pediatric endocrinology analogy at the University of California San Francisco. Dr Rob People no sugar isn't a health food. Why is it so dangerous? Well so people both think that sugars just empty calories and they think well you get some discretionary calories during the day so why hi can they be sugar. Well if sugar were just calories than they be right except they're wrong because different calories in foods are burned and the absorbed digested Matab last in different ways and do different things and contribute to different diseases. Ages so I just want to underscore what you've said because the rule has always been calories in calories out you just gotTa burn it off somewhere in the middle and you're saying again that is not true. What do sugar calories do right? So why are sugar calories so different well. There are different for three reasons. The first is when when sugar is absorbed it goes to the liver and the liver gets overwhelmed. It has limited capacity to metabolize belies it just like it has a limited capacity metabolize alcohol just like it has a limited capacity to metabolize many of the toxins that we taken again because your liver is the detoxification centre of your body. It has a limited capacity for being able to deal with sugar when you overwhelm overwhelm it. The liver has no choice but to take the excess and turn it into liver fat and that liver. Fat is the driver of virtually every chronic disease that we are now currently suffering from. That's gone up in time. So tech to diabetes lipid problems hypertension cardiovascular ask disease cancer dementia non Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease polycystic ovarian disease all being driven by liver fat and the liver. The fat is because of the sugar. And so you can basically have alcoholic fatty liver disease. If you're over twenty one or you can of non alcoholic fatty liver disease. And it doesn't make a difference because they are identical and so we have done several liver transplants. In Soda Drinkers Teenage Soda Drinkers Transplants. And talk about the insidiousness of Sodas. And I got you this is. I'm one of those people. I pride myself. I don't drink coffee but I picked up a little bit of a Soda Habit and it's just appalling tilt to think of how up it's an addiction. It's not APP. It's an addiction and anybody who says Oh you know. have this horrible sweet truth. That's sugar addiction. So sugar is addictive in the same way as alcohol in the same way. As nicotine cocaine amphetamine lean a heroin shopping gambling social media internet pornography. All of these stimulate same area of the brain colder reward center the nucleus accumbens anything that causes the release of dopamine is in the extreme addictive. And you call all this the Coca Cola conspiracy because you say it's not by accident It's not just that. There's a ton of caffeine added to sodas that makes you then P.. Pardon my in elegance they also add salt so the combination makes you thirstier so you drink rumour exactly so. They know what they're doing. Do you have to put salt in coke. There used to be a caller called royal crown. Cola didn't have any salt in it. I mean coca-cola knocked them out of the park but the fact act is you don't have to put salt in soda so this is by design well and then fructose are was sold to us as more natural sugar. It's this is in You know corn and beats and such but as you point out one of the things they do in freak does which has added to just about everything is stripped the fiber Barau out of it so that it has a longer shelf life so it has absolutely none of that benefit. And why is fructose as bad as sugar. So first of all love sugar is two molecules bound together Glucose and fructose now glucose is not all that bad suck right. But it's not that bad however fructose because it is metabolize into that liver fat in the liver. That's where the problem comes in. In addition fructose starts the aging reaction. It causes what we call. Characterization is the reason for wrinkles is the reason for cataracts this aging reaction. This Browning reaction does does it. Seven Times Faster Than Glucose. And now we have learned through work done at Joslin Diabetes Center that fructose specifically inhibits Amaya. CONJUL enzyme that causes those might a country to burn less well which probably is one of the reasons for the persistent weight gain and also chronic disease and glucose. Doesn't we do that. So there are some very specific differences between these two molecules however when you consume any form of sugar whether it's sucrose host which is table sugar cane sugar beet sugar stuff you putting your coffee or high fructose corn syrup or honey or Maple Syrup Oregon doesn't matter you're getting getting one of each molecule and so sugar is a problem because of the front toes molecule. Look we we have just a couple minutes left. I urge people to watch your lecture but you draw direct line from the state. We're in today to the health industry and the government in nineteen eighty two. We were told cut out fats and so everybody went to carbs and of course carbs are filled with all these sugars that you're talking about and by the way obesity went up when we cut cut out fats and went to carbs. You go back to Nixon in the early nineteen seventies who there was a political crisis. Food was too expensive. He directed his Agriculture Department. Department to cheapen it which they did by adding a lot of these you know corn syrup products. You call fructose. Yep you called fructose. A A poison and one would ask why were narrowed. FDA regulated poison. Well one of our biggest exports is our food of course the food industry pushes pushes back on your claims and the claims of others but people know what they can see with their own eyes. They don't feel well. They see their children are overweight. A lot of people now Are doing things like the New York Times. Seventy sugar challenge trying to cut back the first day. You know no sugar at breakfast. How would you help? People do This given that it is so addictive in it is so everywhere right so I will be very honest with you. We will not solve this problem until the food industry solves it for us and they have no interest in doing so because this is their gravy train. This is their juggernaut. This is how they went from one percent. Gross gross profit margin to five percent gross profit margin in the span of three decades. This is their livelihood and and they are not gonNA do anything they don't have to do and unfortunately the government's in bed with them because they're making fifty six billion dollars a year off. Export tariffs off our food. So the only way we are going to fix this problem is when there are more votes than dollars and right right now. We're just beginning to get some traction in the general public For this issue of food having having said that people need to understand what the problem is they have to understand the difference between processed food and real food and the differences processed processed. Food is high sugar. Low fiber high sugar for Palatability low fiber for shelf life. Real food is low. Sugar high fiber real food works processed. Food Food doesn't processed food kills because of these issues and we could repeat could fix this tomorrow if we wanted to. Problem is because sugars addictive. People don't want one of the saddest things in your lecture. Is You talk about Children and who have the serious health issues now that are traced to the juices that they're given and these are low income children in the juices come to them through the government with program. Exactly right it's got to be tough for you to see those children impossible Breaks your heart. You know the fact that matter is these kids. It's our victims and we know who the perpetrators are and the fact is You know the parents don't understand and so it promulgates we'll gates itself. The fact is what mothers eat. During pregnancy ultimately impact on the number of fat cells children in a born with and those fat cells. WanNa get filled so these kids didn't have a chance even before they were born. Never mind afterwards I I mean how do you blame a six month old for obesity. Fact matter is we have a problem and we have to address it and no one is which provocative we're going to link people to your lecture to the seven day sugar challenge. People want to try it into into other writing at here now. Dot Org Dr Robert. Let's dig professor of Pediatric Endocrinology at the University of California San Francisco. Rob Thank you so much you my I pleasure. Thanks for having me by the way. Dr Legg is cataloging. All the different names that added sugar goes by to hide it. He says his listed up to three hundred read. You want you to add to it. It's the sugar project. Texas is now the first State to refuse new refugees as part of the government's refugee resettlement program. The state has traditionally been one of the most welcoming states for refugees. Texas governor Greg. Abbott's action comes under president. Trump's executive order making it mandatory for states and local authorities to consent to resettling refugees within their borders. For more on. This we're joined by Julian Aguilar reporter for the Texas Tribune and Julian. Texas is the first to refuse refugees as I said more than forty governors ars including many Republicans have already chosen to stay in however. How exactly does the refugee resettlement program work? What the refugee resettlement does is it finds an initial? She'll state that is willing to accept refugee folks. What it does is it uses some of these monies for the program to partner with these state programs to settle refugees there So in Essence Governor Abbott said that the refugee agencies that are active in Texas will not be able to directly relocate these folks but that's not to say that somebody can't move to another state in the country that's accepted into the program and then eventually moved to Texas Ian. He was the first one to do it. He waited a good amount to to pull the trigger on his decision. And I don't think his decision surprise. A lot of folks give his history with resettlement programmes. Previous to this Though Texas had been a leader in resettlement accepting being a little over eight thousand refugees back in two thousand nine and and state representative Vicki Goodwin. A Democrat from Austin says she believes this is not just a immoral but an economic issue. How much do refugees contribute to the economy and social fabric of of Texas? They spend billions of dollars in there also are very very good at start up businesses employing folks now given the size of the state's economy. This decision is not going to put a Texas into into the red by by any stretch of the imagination. I mean the concern is just the signal that it sends. It's not going to destroy the state's economy. Well compared to the number of folks that are already here. Compared to the number of immigrants that are trying to seek asylum in Texas or elsewhere the number that Texas might have received how they opted in would also be relatively small specifically because the president cap the number of refugees that at the administration was even the new allowed eighteen thousand for this year. which is the lowest amount that it's been in several several years? You know I wanna go back to something you said earlier about. Governor Abbot. At this was expected that he would make this decision that he would leave this program. What are some of the reasons why he says this is good for Texas? He's he says you you know we got to concentrate on the on the folks that are here. He mentioned in his letter. The Texas had been left to shoulder most of the burden for the broken immigration system. referencing the the number of folks that were apprehended at the southern border but that's different than the resettlement program the resettlement program. They apply overseas thoroughly vetted and they come in through different means but the nonetheless. The governor's still reference the fact that Texas had seen a large surplus over the last few years and he's accurate. The Rio Grande Valley down in the southern part of Texas has been the busiest for unauthorized crossings for several years. Now that trump administration's initial executive order has already been challenged in the courts awards. What's next you're correct? There was litigation filed and arguments in that case were heard less than a week ago. This was on Wednesday of last week. So it could be a moot point but you know who knows how many folks are going to be want to be resettled in Texas. Given the fact that the owners on record opting out of the program regardless of what the federal judge rules in which should be the coming weeks that's Julian Aguilar reporter for the Texas Tribune. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. Thanks to a recent court ruling. The Dutch government is ratcheting up its commitments to address. Climate Change and an environmental groups successfully sued forcing the government by the end of the year to cut the nation's greenhouse gas emissions by twenty five percent from nineteen ninety levels. Dennis van Burkle is legal counsel for their Agenda Foundation which filed a lawsuit and he joins me on skype from the Netherlands and Dennis. Your argument was that the Dutch government's targeting for reducing greenhouse gas emissions was so inadequate. They jeopardized human rights. How did you make that case to the court? It was very extraordinary. Gatien don't normally go to court and say well this is the policy. Didn't want so what we explained to. The court was first and foremost grave rave dangers of climate change and how unique they are in size and the fact that for over twenty five years the Dutch government together with all the other governments world recognized as danger but didn't do anything so we argued that the dangers of climate change are so so big that they threatened to violate violate our human rights are on our infect already threatening human rights around the world and that such the violation of human rights created an obligation on the state to prevent these harms from coming into being and the only way to do that is to lower emissions. Of course you went to the court with that intent but were you surprised by your victory very well I yes and no I mean. We didn't know that we would win. But we knew that we had a very strong argument and the Dutch state itself had had recognized time and time and time again as any other country in the world that climate change is a huge threat and that current efforts were not enough in order to prevent these threats so we thought we had a very good legal basis to to ask the court to order to the state to to reduce emissions as we mentioned your victory Torri in court means the Dutch government has to now cut the nation's greenhouse gas emissions by twenty five percent from nineteen ninety levels by the end of twenty twenty in practical terms. What does that mean for the Netherlands? Well the government has taken a number of measures it has increased subsidies for people to install for instance certain installations or solar panels on their houses on a bunch of other things including closure of coal fire power plants. Unfortunately they haven't done enough so they they'll have to do more. They're still a very significant gap. So they'll have to take additional measures in a very short term term. It would have been better if they at taking more time for that but now it's one of the things that they'll probably have to do to in order to reach. The target is to close hosts an additional couple of coal fire power plants. Yes tell us more a little bit about that. I mean our power plants on a larger scale going to have to shut down their goal. Well is the most polluting energy source in the world and unfortunately Nina Netherlands Just a couple of new coal fire power plants were opened in two thousand fifteen and two two thousand sixty. There's other less polluting generating best steel available in this area of Europe and also inside of the Netherlands but because coal was cheaper at the moment and not paying an for its pollution. Those go fire bar. Plans are still running But this judgment basically says well you know it's not just about the costs. These emissions are causing harm one of the most likely measures that the government will I have to take is to close these plans down and to speed up their investment in alternative sources. And in the meantime they're still it doesn't mean that the lights you have to go out here but it does mean day. Day have to treat the transition to renewable energy with much more urgency to have done so far. I'm thinking about The Netherlands place in the world. It's it's just one country so even a big victory there Might not do much to reverse. The global trend toward climate catastrophe. Catastrophes is really what we're talking about. Do you think this ruling could have happened in any other country. Say the United States I am. I'm convinced that that again. The legal principles that we use in this case are not unique. End Effect are not unique to the Netherlands. All and I think it's very telling for for instance that on the day of judgement the U. N.. High Commissioner on Human Rights came out with a statement saying that this this judgement implies that also all other countries around the world on their fundamental international human rights ball have legal allegations to reduce their emissions right so this is not a unique thing thing to the Netherlands. The Dutch government also said. We're just a small country. It doesn't really matter what we do. And that's what we see. All countries say right for instance and now in Australia. You see the Australian prime minister. Say Well you know. Australia's just tiny. So we're not gonNA to do anything about climate change regardless of affect all countries on fire because of the impacts of climate change and this ruling shows that that argument just doesn't fly you have a legal obligation to do your part and that's the sort of the main message of this judgment there other climate lawsuits around the world. How do you have a big impact? Is there any possibility of legal action and international courts which are after all based right there in The Hague international law. Oh and also the courts on the international level move slowly and to get a case I mean there are efforts to get a case before the International Court of Justice countries themselves what basic after agree before a case gets put before that court so but as a citizen you can directly. Go to that court but as you tango to your own court in your own country and those courts have an obligation to this into your case and have an obligation to in the in the event that they also come to the conclusion that your rights are being violated to then come with some sort of remedy which you know in in the context of climate climate change. The only real viable remedy is that emissions need to be lowered. Because that's the only way we can prevent these Scott stuff impacts why target the government that with these legal challenges in not fossil fuel companies well because governments have very particular responsibilities towards their citizens. Isn't that's the first reason under almost every constitution governments have obligations with regards to their citizens and those obligations already obligations and the rights that we used in this case and governments also as well have recognized you know since one thousand nine hundred eighty two when the Framework Convention on Climate Change was closed governments. All governments enrolled recognized that they have a responsibility. They recognize that they are to prime entities responsible. Oh for dealing with this problem. And they repeated that went closing the Kyoto Protocol again in two thousand fifteen o countries in the world repeated. Yes this is a tremendous the problem. We are responsible and we need to solve this. That's the first part and the second part also is governments have the type of systemic powers that you need to solve this. This problem now will really need to completely reinvent. The energy system large investments will need to be made because often in renewable energy. She is cheaper than the fossil fuel alternative. But you have to make upfront. Investments and states are uniquely equipped and sort of the only real entity in the world the disabled to take these types of steps. I WanNa ask you one last question about the most recent you and negotiations on climate change change in Madrid At the end of the year there was little progress to show for it. What do you make of the sluggish pace of international action on climate change? I I mean this is four years after the Paris agreement which was hailed as really the new era for global action to deal with the climate crisis. Oh it's I think it's extremely Disconcerting basically nothing was achieved in in Madrid and that was an achievement in itself. Because we were there was a big threat. That would be a big step back. I mean so. That's that's how dire the situation right now is and and it only increases the John Stat. More of these cases will up around the world. I mean it's my my honest hope that we don't need to go to court all around the world at people all around the world to demand that their rights are being respected. I mean it's the role role of the government to act in the interest of the people. And there's no doubt about it that that interest is to deal with this problem as they have recognized for over decades now this this year in two thousand and twenty is the air that countries agreed that they would increase their ambition that they lay down embarrass because parents didn't set a target. It just set in and a mechanism of continuously increasing the ambition. So that's what. And that's what we desperately need. And if countries are not going to go through with those increases of ambition and taking additional action. It's just inevitable that people will go to court demont that their rights are being respected. That's Dennis van Berko Legal Counsel for the Agenda Foundation a Dutch environmental group that successfully sued the government there to force action on climate change. Dennis thank you so much. Thank you immigration will likely be a big issue this election season would would that. The electorate was informed about it new research dives into misconceptions that people have about immigrants across Europe and the US for example they overestimate how many emigrants there are and the number that are unemployed or on public assistance. We heard elsewhere on this program how much immigrants contribute to the Texas economy. The bulk of data shows immigrants in the US. Don't push down wages. Commit future crimes. The native born Americans revitalized dying small towns. Why don't we know that Derek Thompson Samson has been looking at the new research he's senior editor at the Atlantic joins us from Washington every Monday? Hi Derek Hey it's great to be here good to speak with you and this research comes from to Harvard. Professors Answers Elbow Alycia and Stephanie. Stan Ceva what do they look at so these researchers surveyed native born people in the US and across Europe in Germany. France Italy Sweden and they asked people. What do you think about immigrants? And how does new information update your views and this is a really important question for a lot of reasons some of which you just said the US in the US immigration is a very salient issue as we know. International migration has been rising the last two years there are more immigrants as a share share of the population in many European countries and in the US. It's near an all time high and so It's important to know what people think about the immigration population and and these surveys went right to that question for instance in the US. People tend to overestimate the number of legal emigrants. That are here. What are the numbers? Say Right so three big findings from this paper I people in both the US and Europe consistently overestimate the share of immigrants as you said for example in the US the actual number uh of legal immigrants is about ten percent of the population respondents estimated that it was closer to forty percent of the population. So they were wrong by a factor of four number two respondents abundance especially over estimate the share of Muslim immigrants when you ask people about the immigrant population they tend to overestimate the share That are are Muslims and number three respondents believed that immigrants are less educated more likely to be employed and more reliant on the welfare state than they actually. We are so across the board. You see the people over overestimate the number. Think more of them are Muslim and think that overall they're more of a drag on the economy is this. It's a really really really good question. And a part of it I think is politics. Part of it is basic human psychology. I do think that we see a lot of psychological studies involving immigrants and stuff that has nothing to do with politics is sort of preference for the familiar people have a preference for the for the familiar in artistic tastes in music and movies we also unfortunately have a preference the familiar in ethnicity missy. We are more likely to feel generous toward people that are our own ethnic group and more likely to be accepting of welfare policies that help people from our own ethnic groups so that that is the sort of human psychology aspect of it on the political side though. I think it's a fact that immigration is often politicized when there's a problem in the US when wages are stagnating or when industries are going away. POLITICIANS AREN'T LIKELY TO BLAME FACELESS MACROECONOMIC forces they're more likely to benign human beings and so they blame emigrants often when they can't blame More vague ideas law and also. I would imagine if you can speak anecdotally of a problem in your specific traffic town. Let's say a gang Then that's your world and you feel that that represents the world of immigrants also thinking it's you know little twas ever thus I'm always stunned on what I think in the Early Twentieth Century the nineteen twenty s you know. Americans thought that Italians and Poles were not smart enough to become Americans they ban them. You know the the home of the renaissance it just it seems like it's something in our DNA maybe it's true. No other rising is unfortunately part of the American DNA and a part of of American history. I should say as a matter of optimism that what does seem to help. People have a realistic impression of immigrants and have a positive impression of emigrants grants is actually living with and near immigrants. Among urban residents the Democratic Party immigration has never been more popular according to surveys. And so this this is one of the paradoxes of attitudes immigrants. That what you see both in the US and in Europe is what is sometimes called a halo effect if you look at cities cities themselves officer positive that immigrants but in the white suburban areas around cities that sort of demographic or spatial halo around the downtown Metro area. That's where attitudes attitudes toward immigrants are most negative. They're close enough to immigrants to feel threatened by them but not close enough to actually know them. Well and the flip side of the positive do misconceptions about immigrants shape political views. Oh absolutely do I mean I don't think you can talk about trumpism. And he is is rise within the Republican Party without being very explicit about the degree to which his fearmongering in his other rising of immigrants played a really important role not only in his winning The Republican primary but then in his winning the general election. I think we're living in a time right now. In American economics for people are nervous about their wages about the future for their children children. They're looking for someone to blame for their anxiety for some cause of this thing and it is all too easy. I think for for demagogues and political opportunities opportunities to point the finger immigrants and say it's their fault blame them well it's also a reminder Derek That the press has to constantly get out what is true about about immigrant populations Derek Thompson senior editor at the Atlantic Thank you as always for joining us on Mondays. Thank you and here now is a production of NPR and WBZ association with with the BBC World. Service I'm Robin Young. I'm Tanya Moseley. This is here now and then there were six with. The Iowa caucuses three weeks away. We take a closer look at the Democratic candidates still in the running for President Joe Biden Elizabeth Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders p Buddha. Judge Amy Klobuchar and Tom. Steyer hit the debate stage in Des Moines on Tuesday. We'll have a preview. That's next time on here now.
EP. 384 - No One Is An Expert on CV19 ft. Paul Saladino
"Power Project Crew. Welcome to today's show. This episode was recorded on May fifth so at least single the mild to everybody we. Today we have the Salad Man Paul Seller Dino Aka Carnivore D. As you guys know Paul is a huge proponent of the carnivore diet He has a book about it. He's been on our podcast several times talking about the Carnivore Diane. All the benefits of it and surprisingly he has recently started incorporating carbs. Just kind of run some tests on himself and when I say carbs I mean the worst of it all was like honey in Some Sweet potatoes so nothing crazy's not having pizza although that would be funny but He's just kind of going through his experience and really seeing what it does to his body physically and even a metabolic metabolic Louis. And that's actually a huge topic of this episode was You know the metabolic health of Americans and why the virus has been running through and affecting so many people in this country and he gives some great examples on how you know if we had attacked it. The virus you know nutritionally in Metabolic Louis. We might be in better shape than we are. Now as opposed to just going straight to lock down in the quarantine he goes on to say you know Unfortunately like cereals and processed foods junk foods although sales have gone up and that obviously is not helping anything however may be if we were to eat whole foods. We might be in better shape. This was a really good conversation with our boy. Paul and you know as mark puts it. He doesn't really say anything. That's too controversial. I don't think anybody can really disagree with much of what he has to say today. So again this was you know I. I think this is going to be one of the most valuable conversations we've had on you know when it comes to nutrition and the The Corona virus and how we can kind of get out of all of this mess. So thank you Paul for spitting all this knowledge and taking the time out of your day to be on our podcast if you guys appreciate what. He's he's schooling us on Please find his UH Media links down in the Youtube and facebook Description as well as the I tuned. Show notes him up and let them know you guys think and ladies and gentlemen please enjoy his show with our homey. Paul Salvino Rolling Rolling Rolling. Happy Cinco de Mayo. That's today that's what are we supposed to do up a Burrito and smoke it. That would be good. That'd be good it is. I just saw somebody had posted It's such a bummer. That for the first time and who either. I don't know how calendars work but seeing the mile lands on Taco Tuesday and everything shutdown. Am just be a lot of people are getting takeout. Tacos and partying at houses like that people people still doing that. Yeah Oh and of Anna virus named after Mexican. Beer do you guys. Do you guys know anybody that doesn't like tacos non no so. I don't think you're allowed to do this by law but I think I need to like returned my son back to wherever he can bring back kids that are broken because he doesn't like Tacos and I'm like dude like you're the only person like it's it's not that he I I would say that some people are like yeah. I don't really care about tacos right and other people. I love tacos. But he he hates them. And I'm like this can't be like something went. Wrong what Ha what happened in your life. What's been so traumatic? What's what's so wrong with this situation. How is this possibly? Don't like Tacos. What's wrong with you. I mean I looked them up and down. I couldn't figure out what's wrong is clearly clearly. He has something wrong with them right. Where where did you go wrong? You know. I don't know what the Hell I I did. Everything I saw on the videos and then some and I guess it didn't work. What does he like Burritos Breakfast Brio? So what does he dislike about soccer? Has He mentioned that handling issue? Is it The flavor profile. I think he's had some bad experiences. I think I I just think that he doesn't like no like I think he's eating like tackles at school before like the hard shell. Taco deal And so now he just doesn't understand like now there's so much more tacos in those crappy ones that. Oh God yes school tacos. School was absolutely disgusting. So I don't blame them that's all he's experienced. The I mean there is like a line between like a real taco and then like a Jack in the box Taco. Those are really good but you know like if I say like Oh you gotta try this Taco. I give you like one of those. You'll be like that's everyone's talking about. It's like full different but we think Andrew like full on one hundred percent authentic or do you think a little spice of fatness from the United States can help a little bit with Mexican food. I can definitely help Co. Yeah Yeah. Someone's like that's not authentic sometime. I don't like I don't know what it was like when you're in Italy but I'd imagine getting like authentic pizza might be different than like pizza. Hut You know I I don't care but what about like having a Taco with like maybe a Piemontese flat iron steak for me. Oh Man I know I had some. We cooked up some steaks last night. cooked up some filet and New York Strip. An Andy had them all like cut up and and They were frigging great. We Love Love. Having that Piemontese we had some Potato Stew we had some yummy. She cooked in the oven which Just wearing went together. Really well really. Good Yeah I might. I might grill up. Some awesome flat irons. Cut Them. Up Real real thin get some tortillas and have my own Cinco de Mayo here at the crib enjoy that so I I know it's mixing in like a Nebraska and Mexico but I don't think I'll I'll get deported anytime soon for doing that. Take advantage of Piemontese beef. It has the highest protein lows fat. You're ever GonNa find it on the AO in any type of meat. He has a head over. Piedmontese DOT com. That's P. M. O. N. T. E. DOT COM. Check checkout enter Promo Code Power Project for twenty five percent for older and if your order is ninety nine dollars more you get free two day shipping and it's only fitting that we talk about Piedmontese because we got a carnivore coming up the salad may saddled know Yeah Alad rate in his name. How Weird is that? That is so weird. Let me say what. He's probably heard that jerk so many times at this point though like he's time I know he's really he's really gone against the grain right with the with his last name versus the way the way that he eats but I'm excited to talk to him today. You know he's got a lot of great stuff. He and I talked a lot when I was in on his podcast about Vitamin D. And getting it from Masan and you know you can get vitamin D. From a bottle you can Take Supplemental Vitamin D. And that may help a little bit but really all it does is just when you when you get your bloodwork You'll get a little extra power in the back because your vitamin D levels will be higher. But it's not the same thing You can maybe think of think of it Maybe a little. Bit like key tones If you ingest key tones It can maybe turn on some things in your body that that that could be beneficial to you but it's not doing the same thing as like putting yourself through the process of getting into. Ketosis so once again. Unfortunately you know the things that we do for ourselves. They're always going to be more powerful than the things we do to ourselves. He can't really just get it from a pill but if you do live in an area where there's less sunlight you. Can you know supplements vitamin D here and there but your best bet is to get out. Oh my God holy Hell. Wow so you guys are you on now. Look it's ask. Andrew you forgot to hit is like entrance music. I know my bad way waiting popped in with that double bicep you know. Nothing is less impressive than poorly done. Double Bicep posts nine. What's going on man? What do you got going on over there you know? Just trying to hide from the hysteria talk sense into people. Write some more bugs all that. Kinda stuff you know. Good Luck what. What made you dive in? Full blast. Full bore more recently to Talking a lot about the corona virus. I don't even know I think it's just no matter what's going on fascinated by it. I am interested in it and I'm interested in the human response to it. I'm interested in the G and the The variance of the virus. And I think it actually presents us with a model system or it's it's the kind of thing for me. That's it's very similar to many things that we're going to face in society. It's it's something that's going to challenge our health as a population just from the beginning. I thought that the response was a little strange. There's always going to be infectious insults that we're going to encounter. And why are we hiding much from? This is a real reason to do that. And the further. I got into it the more I thought man. A lot of these pieces of this equation. Don't make a whole lot of sense to me. In the way we're structuring. Response does make sense and yes people are going to die from it. In yesterday's a virus that can hurt people there are other viruses out there that are harming us and there are many other viruses and other infectious things. That were exposed. So yeah it's been an interesting journey. Just kind of think about it from my own perspective. As a non virologist non epidemiologist non infectious disease specialist. But I do think that there's a lot of learned from it but you also have rubbed elbows with some experts on your show. Kinda more recently. You've had all different kinds of people getting in different data together and and getting different information than you yourself diving in and researching and correct. Yeah absolutely. And here's the funniest thing about the corona virus pandemic. Who's an expert. Nope who is an expert? Who has seen this before and I saw doctrine instagram. That did a really a satirical funny thing and he was also a psychiatrist or he was he was practicing in. Psychiatry and a piece of getting a lot of hate from people are saying. Stay in your lane man. And he said okay so I'm going to let the world's most preeminent virologist take the stage and he shows a bunch of Videos Bill Gates. Who's you know who's become the world expert on on on Corona virus or the person we listen to or it's it's Dr Oz who hasn't seen a patient in twenty five years in his a talk show host or or it's David Sinclair who I've had my podcast. And his a super smart guy. But he's a geneticist from Harvard. So I'm not seeing any of these. People is unqualified to talk about corona virus. I'm saying they're all qualified to talk about crony virus and they're all qualified to share opinion and to think independently. And as am I and so anytime that somebody tries to break any of us down. I think that it really just exposes that person as someone. That's appealing to authority. When in this situation? We just need ideas. What appears to be the most Common thing amongst people that are getting the Krona virus and are you know getting very very sick from it so looking at the data as I've seen it. The major risk factor is age but the major risk factor for dying also age. So death is you know the major risk factor for dying is age so beyond age and we can speculate as to why age may be the main risk factor for corona virus beyond age. It's very clear that metabolic dysfunction and I will clarify what that means. Metabolic dysfunction is a huge risk factor potentially ten x eight x risk factor for severe course of cove nineteen. Which is the disease associated with stars? Koby too so if we go back to age age is the biggest risk factor for corona virus and in medical school. And all of my training. We are always sold this subtle propaganda that humans are meant to break down and become decrepit as we age. It's inescapable march toward decrepitude. That humans are supposed to get as we age were supposed to. It's normal to get high blood pressure as you age. It's normal to have a heart attack as you age. It's normally get cancer as we age. And this is one of the reasons. I got interested in chronic virus because the narrative seem so similar to what had heard before around a carnivore diet around animal based diets around human health. In general and a lot of the narrative seemed to be built on this. That humans are supposed to get weak as they age. And I've rebelled against that from the very beginning if you look at indigenous peoples They really don't get the same diseases of modern society. They don't get the same chronic diseases that we do so we know as they age so we know that age is not really the main issue here is not necessarily as big of a deal as many people. WanNa make it out to be. No certainly we all die eventually. We have a finite life but to say age is a chronic disease or the aid is inevitably associated inextricably associated with chronic weakening illness This is a narrative that I've never appreciated because that's a very slippery slope to people just taking lots of pharmaceutical medications and not taking things into their own hands by making lifestyle changes dietary changes and staying as strong as possible for as long as possible so when a lot of elderly people are suffering with corona virus. I think the assumption is immediately Their old that's normal and I think about it differently. I think what is common in? Elderly Populations Co Morbid conditions. Chronic diseases certainly common in elderly populations as he attritional inadequacy. If you look at the way that the general population eats as we age it gets to be worse and worse it gets to be less and less nutrient dense. How many 75-year-olds the you know who eat steak. How many seventy five worlds. The you-know-who even eat just whole foods plants or vegetables. And obviously I'm not a huge proponent of vegetables but how many seventy five year olds. Do you know who are making their own food. Who are who are preparing food whether it's a plant origin or meat animal origin can be chicken. But I think that as we age perhaps it. Because of the way we've been eating our whole lives we tend to eat more convenient foods and the the adage we had in medical school was a tea and toast diet for elderly people and that leads to tons of nutrient deficiencies. So I think that we're saying that Obesity Metabolic Syndrome insulin resistance are huge risk factors for severe Kobe. Nineteen and we're also saying that elderly people are at risk but I think elderly people are at risk for the same reasons as everyone else because their metabolic Unhealthy they're more likely to have nutrient deficiencies. And as I've talked about my podcast a lot over the last six weeks seven weeks eight weeks. These micronutrients are critical for proper immune function as is metabolic health as insulin sensitivity and we can get into all of that but I fear that again not talked about this before so much of what we think about. Modern society is based around calories and macronutrients protein fat cards. Those are hugely valuable levers. But it's missing this incredibly large body of knowledge around micronutrients. That was how I got interested in the carnivore. Diet and these micronutrients in my opinion are the real magic there. The real spark the real sort of ghost in the machine but either makes us vital or biochemistry isn't working while on our immune system isn't working well if we're deficient in them. So how many of these elderly people are deficient micronutrients many? That's one of the reasons. Why honestly you know. I've seen you post about the stuff. And then I see individuals when they see post about like Oh these zealots who sang the carnivore diets secure modifiers. Obviously that's not what you're saying you're not saying the Carnivore. Diet security curl virus. But you're just saying a if people eat nutrient dense foods build a healthier lifestyle. They're going to be less likely to contract the court they'll be eased. They'll be able to fight it off easier so I don't understand how something so basic is being so warped into another type of narrative. Yeah me neither. And that's okay. I'll keep fighting for it and I'm glad that the message is clear. Because I see those criticisms from people and I I don't ignore those criticisms. I don't want it to seem like I'm saying. Hey if you get corona virus just steak and you'll be fine. No that's not the case and your diet isn't going to change whether or not you come in contact with the virus or whether or not you get the common cold or SARS cova to or the flu but as you say insieme it's certainly could affect the severity of your course without illness and we'll probably get into this today. There are millions and I think we can discuss. How big that number is there are millions and millions of people who will come in contact with SARS Cova to and you know the course of Adam is. The severity of illness is everything because some people have an easy and they move past in a few days or there are some people who are even as symptomatic and some people end up in the intensive care unit on a ventilator. So what's the difference? That's the key that's the key. What's the difference? And that's what we're talking about here about your shirt. There says e Cole Foods changed the world. What's funny this is my Buddy Justin. All he's got a company called. Clovis he's a great guy and this is his saying you know I was thinking about was like what should I wear today? Well I got my strong strong super train insured over here. It was like no. I'm just gonNA wear the eat. Whole Foods changed the world shirt today. I I really. I Love Justin. I went hunting with him in January. And what a great idea you know. It's not even about a carnivore diet anymore. It's for me. It's about ultra processed food. And of course I'm still interesting to Diet I wrote a book about the Carnivore Diet. And that's what you know. Carnivora carnivores diets animal based diets. Or what I believe to be optimal for humans but at this point I released the podcast today. With a cardiologist from Britain named a seem Tra and not podcast. We talked about the fact that this epidemic is really. I mean. Let's just not mince words here. This epidemic is really targeting pandemic is really targeting people who are metabolic unhealthy. How do you get to be metabolic? Leon healthy you eat food. That's not whole food like let's just make it very simple. So who is behind Corona virus? Have you guys seen that mean? And it's from Scooby Doo. And it's you know it's one of the characters. Scooby Doo pawn off the map behind crowbars and he pulls out the mats and in the meantime it's zoom in Corona virus. When I pull off the mask who is behind corona virus see Nestle and cargo and bear Monsanto and agribusiness and processed food because ultra processed. Food is really what's causing this metabolic illness and this Seattle were or it could be yourself right for allowing those foods antics. We have to have some individual responsibility within the equation as well but we can talk about that. It's an interesting nuance but I think that you know like this isn't really even sexy to say anymore. It's passe but maybe just have to keep saying it like the foods you eat are going to affect your health so eating doughnuts all day is not gonna Pennsylvania Corona virus and eating processed food and ultra processed. Food is not a good defense against corona virus. This is a horrible idea and for anyone to deny at food is connected with metabolic. Health food is connected with immunity or that metabolic health is connected with immunologic. Resilience is just to put on blinders and to say it doesn't matter it doesn't matter to your point in Sima. I think a lot of people that come back at me with criticisms believe in paradigm in which micronutrients are not important or believe in a paradigm which is macro nutrient or macaroni train driven and believe in the paradigm that really ignores overall food quality and have publicly. Come out and said things like you know. It's okay you pop tarts as long as you take a multivitamin you think like you know. So it's consistent with their paradigm and I'm just challenging their paradigm so they get all tricks. Yeah what about You know just to play Devil's devil's advocate here. He said eat whole foods. Avoid the process stuff Lettuce doesn't seem to be processed too much So technically could you be vegetarian and still be You know Protected or a little bit stronger to face Cova and all that absolutely as long as you're getting the nutrients you need. It's very hard to do that in my opinion on a vegetarian plant based diet very very hard. And that's what I talk about in my book the Carnivore Code. People will be familiar with that. You're not she check it out but if you look at plant foods versus animal foods. Mwana animal foods have been incorrectly vilified for decades now and number two in terms of nutrient bioavailability nutrient adequacy. It's really hard to get the nutrients we need from plant foods. Which is why I kind of suggest in the book. Plant Foods are probably just survival foods for most humans if you want if you eat an pinch that's okay but generally speaking if you want the most nutritious foods. Your Diet should be composed of a lot of animal foods. That's where we're going to get those micronutrients from in bioavailable amounts so it's a great question Andrew also too I think You know if vetch if vegetables or even other foods if they assist you to If they encourage you to eat more meat than that might be a really good thing especially for people that of struggle. The I know for myself If I have some spinach sometimes with Some meat it just makes it easier to eat the whole thing. You know or if I make an Omelet has some vegetables in it. It just it makes the It enhances the experience of the Omelette so I do understand. You know. There's anti nutrients in there and I I get all those things but again if it's going to encourage you to eat To stay more on plan to stay more on point eat more meat based Than it might be something to look into. I know for yourself. You more recently have made some changes and you started to incorporate Some carbohydrates. So you're off the team. You know that's here. That's that's why we got this zoom call going. You want to officially announce that you're off the team but you made some changes to your carnivore. Dies right yeah. I've been doing some experiments over the last few months and I'm going to be doing a podcast soon. Looking at my continuous glucose monitor readings. So here's the deal as I got further and further into the Carnivore Diet. I ate what we call strict carnivore. I don't like to be dogmatic about it. Contrary to what the haters on twitter would say I am not carnivores L. It I try to be open minded and not to be dogmatic But you know I have a strict carnivore for over a year and a half and what I began to see guys was a lot. I saw another people a lot of dogmatic belief regarding Kito Kieschnick diets and low-carbon. I thought you know I really WanNa challenge this a little bit because personally and the more I dug into literature. I just couldn't reconcile this idea. And I hope this came through in the book but it probably come through more in the cookbook. I'm writing for later this year. Insulin resistance metabolic dysfunction these are all synonyms and they are synonymous with prediabetes carbohydrates per se. Do not causing insulin resistance. And I want people to understand that and I think within the Carnivore Community. There are many people who get kinda dogmatic about that and they think. I saw too much messaging around this idea that in order to fix insulin resistance you had to go low carb and though a low carb diet can help for that. It's not the only way and carbohydrates ended up themselves do not cause insulin resistance in humans. There's nuance here. And so I wanted to do some of my own. Experiments as a carnivore. As an animal based proponent as the carnival indeed with carbohydrates to prove this to people to show them that I'm not gonna get fat a knocking unhealthy and my blood glucose isn't going to get completely out of whack. My inflammation isn't GONNA go up in my fasting. Insulin is not GONNA get disorder. My insulin isn't gonNA rise by including carbohydrates in my diet and so I did one ten day period with continuous glucose monitor and got all those readings and during that period I did. I did carbohydrates and I included things like coconut water like sweet potato squash and honey and what I found some really interesting things but overall what I found was that it didn't cause me to explode. I didn't get fat. I didn't get sick. My sleep didn't suffer and I actually Kinda liked the way I felt with some carbohydrates in my diet from time to time and there's some nuance there and again mark was on my podcast recently and we talked about this during that conversation within the part launch within the colloquial sphere of discussion we talk about carbs and that. I realized that means like junk food cards. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Carbo hydrate. I'm talking about talking about a macro. Nutrient that is a whole foods. Yeah Yeah I'm talking about whole food. Carbohydrates and even within that discussion. There's nuance around. What source you know. Are you getting your carbs from White Rice? Are you getting your car through? Wieght or you getting your carbs from grains or you're getting your carbs from fruit and starch or honey. Which is raw and organic. Do those affect humans differently. I believe they do. Certainly everyone listening to this will. No that was very good evidence that carbohydrates coming from sugar effect people differently than carbohydrates coming from whole food at the risk of getting a little granular. I'll just share study that I saw recently in reviewed in my podcast with Zima ultra so it was a study done in pre diabetic obese children. It was done by Robert Lustiger. A number of people in Robert Lusty has been an outspoken sort of outspoken critic. Fructose fructose and they took these obese pre-diabetic disordered markers of insulin sensitivity and over nine days. The study was only nine days. They took out all the sugar in their diet and all the sugar sweetened beverages in their diet so all they did was take out processed sugar and processed sugar late and drinks. They kept macaroni train. Ratios the same. Didn't make these kids low carb. And they kept calories the same eyeso- caloric Eyeso- caloric same macronutrients remove. Fructose removed. Sugar sweetened beverages. Within nine days. They saw improvements in every single marker of insulin sensitivity so how there can be studies like that and people can say that process. Sugar is the same as Carb. Carb is a car that just boggles my mind because it's clearly not the case. The quality of your carbohydrates matters just like the quality of your meat matters just like the quality of your fat matters the quality of the foods we eat matters so when replaced the processed food with the whole food in nine days nine days. You see improvements and insulin sensitivity nobis kids and so this wraps back into the corona virus conversation we can reverse metabolic syndrome or significantly improve it in just over a week and we could probably improve it faster. So we've been quarantine for nine weeks or you know eight weeks at this point. How many thousands of people? How many millions of people could we have helped if that were the mainstream messaging and how many thousands of lives would have been saved from severe KKOB? Nineteen if we've been talking about connections between metabolic illness and immunologic compromise severe Korsakov nineteen and that could have been done just by removing the ultra processed foods. It's not rocket science. We can't deny this at this point. Have you looked into any of the stuff from repeat where he talks about? I've I've heard him talk about utilizing carbohydrates even against diabetes and even using like fruit and he has some really interesting Things that he says but I I haven't seen enough of his stuff to really truly understand what it what the heck it is. He's talking about but he does have a lot of interesting concepts. Have you ever looked into anything from him? Yeah I'm pretty familiar with repeats ideas and some of them. I think are fascinating and others of them. I am a little bit scream about. I think he's I don't know if he does interviews anymore. I'd love to get him on the PODCASTS. And kinda talk to him about stuff like that. But Rape Pete I believe is of the opinion that Gluconeogenesis is somehow harmful for humans. So that gets into the school of thought where people people who are acolytes of Pete. Chris Master John. Other people like this. They seem to have this opinion that not having any carbohydrates being in a ketogenic state harmful to human physiology. I don't go that far right the other side of Dogma in my opinion that we should never be in. Tito's that that we need this concentration of carbohydrates into our body all the time. Well doesn't make any sense to me just intuitively thinking about times in our evolution that we would have been fasting that we would have had periods where we were very low carb because there were no carbohydrates nature and we could only hunt animals. This is kind of the idea of a Classic Carnivore. Diet that it's totally reasonable. And I believe consistent with normal human physiology and healthy and probably very beneficial long-term have some periods where you don't carbohydrates in your diet. This is key Tokyo. This is the massive amount of literature and interest in Kita genetic diets. And I think they're very beneficial in as we know they do seem to turn on a lot of genes involved in autophagy involved in metabolic health now again. It's we're back to Canada at that beautiful middle ground. I didn't WanNa be come a ketogenic dogmatic person. I didn't WANNA become a zealot with regard to Akita genetic die and I've realized that it's totally fine to go back and forth between toews carbohydrates but I also don't take it the other way. Believe that he tells us his harmful for humans because I think that we know there are many benefits to not having carbs all the time and in fact what I'm doing now is eating honey. In the morning I'm GonNa put another continuous Glucose Monitor on here in the next couple of days what I discovered with my CGM by continuous glucose monitor was that I was more insulin sensitive in the morning which is normal human. Physiology go through the day. We become a little bit less insulin sensitive now whether or not this has any. Clinical correlation is questionable. But I could see that foreign equivalent amount of carbohydrates from an equivalent source if I ate them in the morning as opposed eating them at night I would have a smaller blood glucose response in the morning and a larger blood glucose response at night. Now what this led me to do? Experiments right now is. I'll eat the majority of my carbohydrates in the morning and in the evening if I'm GONNA EAT CARBOHYDRATES. I usually eat about two meals a day. I'll eat a smaller amount of carbohydrates and then when I wake up in the morning I'm GonNa be in Ketosis. I'm going to have used my liver glycogen overnight I. I do a time restricted feeding window. I end my day with eating early in the afternoon or mid afternoon. I'd like to have a long amount of time before I go to sleep so I eat breakfast and a late lunch. Usually by two or three. Pm I'm done eating for the day and so if I'm doing an intermittent fast that lasts from two PM or three PM until eight or nine the next morning. That's definitely gonNA put me in. Cato's I don't think that's a bad thing. I don't think I'm harming myself doing that. I think that's normal. Human Physiology say oh we're GONNA flip the switch back and forth. We're GONNA do some anabolic or to do some CADILLAC RENEWS. Some tour. We're going to do some amp am amp kinase. We're going to back and forth and I think that makes more sense to me to go back and forth and I think that humans could go a long amount of time and Kito Sis without any carbohydrates but it was really eye opening for me to to bring them back into my diet and see how it fells and Holly I got Super Fat. Did you set up the KNUCKLEHEAD? Did you set up the earlier eating window because he more insulin resistant in the morning or was it more so something to do with having better quality sleep was for the was it like for this reason for both reasons. Yeah both reasons. Yeah so again. I'm more insulin sensitive in the morning and most humans are because as you go through the day your your Melatonin goes up and as you MELATONIN INSULIN. Or a little bit antagonistic. So in the evening even at six or seven PM. You're starting to get Melatonin being produced and that's going to interact with your insulin a little bit and make you a little more insulin resistant. Now doesn't matter. Does it have a clinical correlation hard to say this is. What's so cool about a c? Gm but it helps with sleep. And I get less of a blood glucose response when I eat at two or three. Pm or get the majority of the carves eight or nine in the morning. How long had it been since you've had like just normal carbs like that was over a year and a half? Yeah what was it like the first couple of days were a little funny and I wish I'd had the CGM on on those days the first because by the time I put the Continuous Glucose Monitor on. I had been doing carbs for a few days. And it's kind of the reverse of going into KITO system coming out Akito Service so when you're in Ketosis for a long time you get. This phenomenon. Called physiologic glucose sparing or physiologic insulin resistance. But it's so much different than pathologic. Insulin RESISTANCE THAT. I think that that term confuses people. I don't like to use that term physiologic insulin resistance. It's more glucose sparing. You'll see people talk about this. On both sides of the equation sometimes people who are anti ketogenic diets or pro fruitarian diets or pro vegan plant based diets that are higher. Kyw Car will say. Oh if you're low CARB YOU'RE GONNA get insulin resistant and it's not the same physiology as pathologic insulin resistance driven by over consumption of mixed macro nutrient ratios like fat and carbohydrates together totally different physiology. I went into a lot of detail with this when I debated A couple of friends of mine. Who are fruitarian on my podcast. Awhile ago people can find that one on my podcast which is fundamental health. But what you start to see is during toasted. Your body says hey. The muscles don't need glucose because they can use ketones so they start refusing glucose now technically at the level of the Muscle. That is insulin resistance. But you're not insulin resistant everywhere. You're not insulin resistant. At the level of the brain not influence other places on insulin resistant everywhere. It's a little different physiology. And it's not driven by inflammation and might conrail dysfunction in quite the same way that it is when you're overeating foods when you're eating junk food or when you're eating processed carbohydrates vegetables different physiology level Mitochondria. Not Is it accompanied by hyperinsulinemia or hyperglycemia. When people are pathologically insulin resistant. We see we see hyperinsulinemia. We see levels fasting insulin when you do occasioning tight. Your insulin goes way down. You'd get low fasting. Insulin and your blood sugars are pretty low. In fact they're flat. Across today there very low so very different physiology very different clinical presentation of those two things. So but what I was saying. That the A physiologic glucose sparing what happens in a Ketogenic Diet. And when you reverse that from being kito for a long amount of time to giving your body carbs for the first couple of days your glucose is going to be a little higher than normal. Because you're about has to wake up and say. Oh carbs again. Okay let's bring him in you know but then it'll justin. It looks just fine and right now you know the GM readings that I've had are pretty fascinating. The blood sugars are really stable. I'll get a little spike once or twice a day when I eat honey with my meals and I'll usually about one hundred grams of carbs today or now maybe one hundred twenty I don't follow it that closely. Get small spikes in blood sugar when I eat that. But generally the blood sugar is between say seventy and ninety all day with a few spikes for the honeymoon eat it. And that's an spikes. The spikes generally only go up to one hundred twenty or a hundred and thirty milligrams per deciliter. So they don't even go that high and they come back very quickly again. I'll do a whole podcast on them. As you started to experiment with some carbohydrates as you started it may become more open to trying again yourself. Did you see on of maybe realize and look around and and kind of think? Oh that guy's has always had some really good points. I never recognized that before. Maybe somebody like a Rob Wolf or something like that. Of course of course right. We're all learning from each other and yeah it's eye-opening and humbling and think that we all we all get into our little idea echo chambers and I always say that I've tried to not be in that chamber but of course I'm guilty of it like anyone else and so yeah it's been good to kind of to to do that kind of stuff to be open minded about diet is one of those things. That's so interesting to me that. Of course it's possible and of course. I was guilty of being a little bit closed minded but it was fun. It was fun experiments but interesting kind of explore. That stuff. It's been it's been good. I don't know that my sleep was pretty good on carnivore regardless And now I just kind of go back and forth Sundays only carbs. Willie carbs most days. I won't eat carbs at dinner but I mean there's so many other people there with great ideas. It's nice to be able to appreciate them all. Have you seen what the Glucose Monitor? Have you seen your glucose get Real like jacked up And If not are you willing to maybe try to experiment just to see what that would look like from a performance standpoint like maybe you have strength training session the next day. And maybe you try to boost it up or you have any any desire to play with it that way and see how it might maybe amplify performance. Yeah I could. It would be interesting to see if it were any different. And I don't think we really know all the details. With regard to glucose there was a paper that just came out I think on either may the first or April the thirtieth about why CMEC variability and cove in nineteen outcomes and it showed that the more glycemic variability. You have the worst. Your Blood Glucose Glucose control the more insulin resistance more about about dysfunction. The worst your outcome was cove in nineteen. So I think that when we're thinking about carbs and when we're talking about CARBS and we're looking at things like continuous glucose monitors. Ideally what we want to see is an absence of Pricey McNary ability even if you are eating carbohydrates and again when I do the FO podcast on the GM. That'll make more sense to people. But you don't really WanNa see the blood glucose spike super high. At least that's what we believe now. We're still learning. You definitely don't want to see the blood glucose going like this up and down all day. That's not a good thing and you don't WanNa see a huge spike and some of the the some of the the cutoff little arbitrary right now. We don't quite know but I think most people would agree that you don't want. Ideally you don't want your blood sugar to spike more than fifty milligrams per deciliter five zero milligrams per deciliter after a meal. And you don't want it to stay elevated for more than forty five minutes or an hour meaning you wanted to return to baseline at forty five minutes or an hour. And that's that's much more stringent criteria than us in medicine for OG T T or oral glucose tolerance testing. We have a much more lax criterion than that. The criterion medicine allows your blood sugar. Go up almost a hundred milligrams deciliter and to remain termaine elevated forty minutes or two hours I think that's that's too lax. I think that if you're seeing that type of behavior what it looks like normally what glucose coach should look like normally. If you're eating carbs. Is You know a bumpy lying. Then you eat some carbohydrates goes up. Maybe thirty forty milligrams per deciliter. Then it comes down very quickly within an hour and then it goes back to baseline and an a disorder. Tatham be a much fatter. Curve will be going like this maybe with a little more license variability than a much bigger spike and a much broader peak more area under the curve. That's where you start to say. That's not good so When I was doing it before I did. Experiments different amounts of carbohydrates. I'd certainly be willing to do it but if I'm seeing my blood sugar spike eighty or ninety milligrams per deciliter. I think most people would say that's probably not super healthy. Now could there be a trade off. There was strength potentially but it's like something I've got away that for me including one hundred. Twenty grams of carbohydrates in my diet was like a huge difference. You know that's totally changing my physiology because I'm probably not making ketones right now whereas I was for the last two years exclusively it'd be interesting to maybe load up on some carbohydrates maybe post workout and see if I don't know if you restore your glycogen more efficiently or something like that. See if you could put on more muscle mass to me over the last couple of weeks you. Your Physique is looking better from from what I've noticed and I zoom in a lot I is zoom in and screen capture and I zoom in again but yeah I mean. I'm noticing some differences in you but I think it's hard sometimes to know with someone like yourself because you're you're Very strict on your nutrition as it is so that could just be a progression of your training and continuing to get good sleep and continue to have good habits. I gained a little bit of weight but not much. So when I was strict carnivore way. Like hundred sixty nine hundred sixty eight hundred seventy and now way myself. And I'm anywhere from one. Seventy three to one seventy five. So it's totally possible that I that could all be liver glycogen? So that could be waterway in my liver. I'm not as sort of focusing the gym doing dead lifts you know religiously I don't have these benchmarks that I can follow as much I'll do and I'll do squats but most of the stuff I do. You know it's kind of like I'd like to do stuff. I like to do. Weird movements and mobility staff and hit the punching bag and kicked off. So I don't have benchmarks feel like oh I got so much stronger. I definitely feel good in the gym doing this. And I I like the way it feels a lot of the metrics right. Now are subjective but I think I it would be nice to have some objective measures and follow moving forward subjectivity. I I'm going to go ahead and admit that I think I feel a little better with carbohydrates but I don't have objective measures to prove just yet. No people were probably curious. You may have mentioned. I might have missed it. But you mentioned that you're using rob honey What other exact like carbohydrates that? You're using the exact foods that you might be using right now. Yes I'm GonNa talk about a lot of this in the upcoming cookbook within the plant kingdom. I do think there's a spectrum of toxicity and when I was thinking about which carbohydrates trial or which carbohydrates to use that lever intermittently. I wanted to try and do the ones that were less toxic and personally I believe that's probably going to be mean avoiding grains and evolutionary. I mean mark and I have had this conversation for a while. I think mark has been texting me for eight months saying Paul. Don't you think fruit is beneficial for humans? Don't you think fruit is beneficial for humans and I would say and you told me it was porn food your food porn and I'm like don't we want some me my mind. It's good to get late every once in a while. That's right so yeah it's so funny so I think that evolutionary and again this is just my speculation. My independent thought that route would have been the main carbohydrate. We would have sought out seasonally. We wouldn't have over consumed at honey certainly would have been something that we've eaten when we get our hands on. It is frigging delicious but grains I think are probably not going to be the best carbohydrates worse for people I love Stanford I'm not convinced that White Rice is the best source of carbohydrate for humans. And you could test this with. Cgm You could test this with a blood glucose response monitor in there maybe individual variation in terms of how you respond to different carbohydrates. I've heard this before of. I'm an only of one but in the company I'm working with for the C. G. M. which has neutral sense. I've talked to the Dietitian there and she's shown me Blood Glucose Monitor readings from a variety of people eating the same food and they have different blood glucose response people may need to do some testing to see how they respond to different CARBS. Which is kind of wild and I'm good friends with Anthony Guston. Who's done the same thing with his. Cgm He can say he's even told me. Oh I can eat. These Cassava Tortillas. And don't really have much glucose response to sweet potato. I get a much bigger blood glucose respectively. Cinco de Maya. Right right. That's right. So it's there's some nuance for me personally. I are in general as as an overarching general. Schema I think that the non sweet fruits and some of the some of the fruits are going to be the best choice for people as a starting point. These are things like squash sweet potato fruit in honey and people can decide how they wanna do it personally if the fruit is too sweet. I don't really like it when I eat oranges and stuff. I don't like the city in my mouth. I actually feel like I feel like I can feel the acid on the enamel my teeth. I don't like the way it feels. I'm not a big fan of oranges and a super acidic fruit but I mean watermelon might be good and and people might scream on my God. There's so much cement index for watermelon. That's very different between people. The Guy Cmec Index of food is going to be very individual so I think some of the non like super crazy sweet fruit might be good for people. I really like honey it just for me. It's you know I. It's it's one of those between things. I'm GonNa say that I can still be carnivore with honey because it's not actually a plant food. It's like a beef food. He's an IT breaks the model as an as an animal. What is it? I think I might have asked you before. But like what about like and like Avocados? Like where those things the word of those things kind of fall in. Because we've talked about all these kind of different weird foods we've talked. I've talked about honey and Avocados and olives are fruit as well. But they don't have. I don't believe they have hardly any fructose at all. They don't have much at all. And I think that like I said I think that fructose. There's a nuance with fructose. It's not so much to fear fructose. It sphere fructose when it's processed and this is I think where Robert bus off the rails a little bit. I think we're GONNA find this and I know I've heard Buddy Ben Greenfield. Talk about this on his podcast to that. I think that if you did the same thing with these kids who were obese and you gave them fruit instead of starchy carbohydrates. They probably would have similar improvements and insulin resistance. But that's an experiment needs to be done. So it's it's questionable whether it's fructose in and of itself or rather that's form that the fructose in and the reason it would be different is because of the increased tins. The hormones in our gut are released when we eat a whole food versus to process sugar. Because I think people will think like what are you talking about your metaphysics fructose fructose. Well not quite. There's different physiologic reactions when we eat food. That's a whole food because there are hormones released in the upper and lower gut and if if the sugar is absorbed immediately or isn't packaged in the right way. Then it's going to have different hormonal response in our body and believe it or not. Honey appears to have a different response in our body than high fructose Corn Syrup. Especially what basically? Only if. It's a good honey probably a raw organic honey. So much honey is now adulterated. I've heard statistics. Seventy to eighty percent of honey has added syrups. So you have to get a good honey. They have no stock in the honey industry yet. But I should Dr Carter Paul Carnivore Behind. Coming soon. So I think that that's there's a lot of nuance there in terms of how you respond to all of it. There's cofactors to like when you eat an apple. There's going to be approximately five grams of fiber in you know so that's GonNa slow down the absorption. There's also potassium which can have an impact on your insulin. And the way that you handle the glucose that comes along with the fructose That comes along with with the Apple. So again like I agree with what you're saying. They're like because you high fructose Corn Syrup Not GonNa come with any of those cofactors. It's GonNa come straight in the form of juice that you can sip and then on top of that when you think about like these liquids that have calories in them You know think about a kid with like a little juice box. The how long's that going last? You know the kids going to drink that in a lot probably maybe like. I don't know ninety seconds you know. And it's it's thirty grams of sugar just banned to smash in your whereas it would take a minute to even apple or take a minute to eat The equivalent you know. Take a minute to eat three apples right. So I think those are all factors that have to be equated into the mix and when I thought about honey you know it's funny you write a book and the minute you publish the book you think. I should have written that differently. I was wrong about so basically like a few days after I published the Carnivore Code. I have a good friend Al Dannenberg who's a Perry and aunt EST? So He's a dentist that does maybe he's not. I mean like I don't want to call him something he's not but he does like the gums teeth and gums. So he's like he's got super dentist right because he's the guy and he sent me a bunch of studies about honey and they've done studies showing anti cavity and antibacterial in the mouth. Which I thought was so wild that you could give somebody so many of the ideas around food. I like to think about it in the context of oral health and dental hygiene. Because I don't want to miss any piece of it I like to think about things holistically. And so when he sent me studies showing. That honey can be antibacterial and honey can be used to improve. Ginger will health and humans. I thought well isn't that fascinating. Because high-fructose Corn Syrup will certainly not do that. So there's a difference between these foods and that's actually one of the reasons that I've cautioned against over consumption of fermented foods when you eat things like Sauerkraut and Kabukicho. They're very acidic. There's a lot of the scenic acid in those foods. That can actually erode the enamel of the teeth and hurt the gums. So people often say to me. What about Sauerkraut? What about rented foods and my response is yeah. I think evolutionary our ancestors eight those because that was how we foods you can detoxify some plants. Fermenting them we know that. And I talk about that in my book. That the glucose stimulates the the precursors. These plant defense molecules are degraded when you ferment. Many foods it makes them more digestible. So if you have to be plants you probably want to eat them fermented but if you're always eating fermented plants or you're eating a lot of Sauerkraut or a lot of or a lot of lemons in lines that are Super Acidic. That can be harmful to the of the teeth. And I've always thought wow with something too good for us and bad for us at the same time. It's possible but I don't think so. And it makes it gives me pause and I. I don't over consume those super acidic foods. I don't think humans should over consume Sauerkraut or over consume the citrus fruits for those reasons. I'm pretty excited about the this whole honey thing because honeys amazing but it's really easy to eat a lot of honey. So how much are you consuming per day So one tablespoon of honey has between fifteen and eighteen grams of carbohydrates. I'll usually aim for people. Love this whole definitely. Eat hundred plus grams of honey. In a day you know and a hundred grams of honey in a day is going to have a little less than one hundred grams of carbs. Honey isn't gram for gram sugar so I'll probably one hundred twenty grams of honey a day a couple of its multiple tablespoons of honey a day. But that's the only carbohydrate a meeting right now and I'm waiting for my teeth the fall out. They haven't gone out yet. They seem like they're doing okay. But that's been the best one for me again because perhaps I'm so adapted to not having fiber in my diet that when I eat a lot of fiber I don't like the way it feels. I don't really get gas and bloating but it just feels very full and to be honest with you. I really liked the way I feel after eating meat and Oregon's so everyone knows I'm a huge fan of eating nose to tail. And eating liver and spleen and pancreas and I don't want to fill my stomach with nutrient less nutrient dense foods like squash. If I can get honey and meet that's me is like Oh that's great you know and I don't feel hungry but I also don't feel like full. My body would probably adapt. Maybe my stomach has shrunk. Because I'm eating these low residue foods like meat and liver but when I eat squash with my meat I just feel very full and I really like that feeling. It means I can't move around. I can't exercise. You can't do things but if I'm eating honey. Which doesn't have any fiber. I actually think that's a good thing that it doesn't have fiber because as I talked about in my book. The fiber combine other the nutrients or buying hormones that were supposed to do in. Tarot hypnotic recycling of so. I'm I'm thinking that it's probably a good thing. That honey has no fiber and it doesn't make my stomach field extended. Its antibacterial in my mouth. Works for me but yeah I'm eating a significant amount of honey a day. There's a couple of them that I really liked that organic and back to your original point or one of your earlier points mark rape is not a fan of honey is not a fan of excuse me. Misspoke is not a fan of fiber either so he and I would agree on that. And that's why repeat recommends things like ice cream which I'm not gonna go that far because it's got process sugar in it but repeat would say eating animal foods and eat eat carbohydrates without fiber because he's doesn't think the fibers terribly beneficial for humans. Either so we were similar in that respect but I agree with him on the dairy or the processor piece. He's a completely amazing to watch anybody that hasn't listened to rape. P. Check him out on Youtube. He's like polarizing but he doesn't sensationalize anything. He's he's older guy. He's probably in his nineties now so whatever he's doing Is probably working really. Well I think the truth of it is I. Think in some categories This guy has studied stuff that maybe other people just haven't quite gotten to yet like he's very very smart and a specific category But I think maybe when he starts talking about like ice cream and stuff Maybe he started to speak in some areas where he's not as knowledgeable you know he. He's definitely super knowledgeable. Knowledgeable when it comes to like the hormones in your body it seems like That's something that he studied for decades yet. I mean I would disagree that. He's a big fan of orange juice and I'm thinking oh I don't know if I want to. I don't know if that's you know like. Do you realize everybody happy? Everyone is screaming. Orange juice isn't amazing diet. Where do I do? I find out more about repeat. Where do I sign up? Basically I think is diet is ice cream. Orange JUICE BACON IN STATE. Which is like what? What a genius he's brilliant. I Dunno I am surprised. More people don't know about him. I know you're super passionate about Regenerative Agriculture and we have talked about that In the past on this podcast but something that the world being on pause has showed us is that Maybe what cows are doing. Maybe isn't as detrimental maybe as as we As we thought because the cows are still here but we stopped Our transportation and All the sudden the skies are opening up and Things that haven't cleaned in decades are are now cleaner which which brings back to my dad's theory that the environment is indestructible. When I was a kid I asked my dad about. I was like I asked him something. 'cause we're learning something in school it he's like you know what he's like the environment is pretty much indestructible like if we a chop down all those trees over there on that mountain. He's like by the time we got to that other mountain. Those other trees would be growing back. I don't know if what he's saying is one hundred percent true obviously. There's damage that we can do. There's damage that we are doing that. That's not great for the environment but I think it brings up some interesting things like you know could certain areas certain cities shutdown occasionally to be more environmentally friendly. Like is it too much to ask to say? Hey you know this area you know take take this weekend and No one drive their car. You know like if we really care about the environment. Maybe these are things that might be useful. Might be practical. I don't know what are your thoughts on that. I think it's really interesting. I mean cows are still burping and we're seeing a decline atmospheric co two levels. Now this gets to be a pretty controversial topic and you and I talked about this on the podcast that we did for my podcast recently but I think it's pretty clear from what's happened with transportation and carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere. Now that you can stop transportation where you can decrease transportation and I haven't seen any statistics regarding the actual decrease in transportation whether whether it's fifty percent less cars or what it takes to actually make a meaningful dead but it does illustrate this incredible point that hey you can just stop driving your car. And we're going to see a big difference which is kind of counter to most of the plant face narrative saying oh cows are the major contributor or cows or contributing a ton to climate change or a tons of the comdex atmosphere. Now you know people could say oh well. Cows are still contributing and took the cars off the road. So of course we're going to see an improvement and we could see an even bigger improvement of the got rid of the cows but As you will all no I disagree with that. One pretty strongly and I consider some nuance regarding the Carbon Cycle. In the way that methane from a cow is going to cycle and has a different life cycle in the atmosphere than the carbon dioxide. We'RE TALKING ABOUT C. H Four coming out of the mouth of a cow or the of a human can we we produce. We produce methane to SORTA TERMITES AND SORTA bogs in Africa and sort of wetlands and so two landfills versus carbon dioxide. Coming out of the TAILPIPE. A CAR IT'S A. It's a much bigger equation than than the mainstream media would lead us to believe. There's a very large cycle the carbon cycle in our in our environment and always has been this way. There's always carbon dioxide in our environment in our atmosphere. We need that The more carbon dioxide and our atmosphere the more greenery there is on the earth surface historically that levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere if they dropped too. Low plants can't breathe. Plants can't use the carbon dioxide. So WanNa get rid of all. The carbon dioxide doesn't make any sense and I don't think the media tells us that the major carbon dioxide sink or the major places where carbon dioxide or carbon are stored are the oceans and the soil. So there's always the cycling of carbon moving around and I've always been struck by this idea that when you burn fossil fuels you're adding new carbon dioxide to the environment but when a cow is burping or a baby is farting or a child or your your IRA farting although we all fart much less. Now that we eat many clan many fewer plants Were all contributing methods. The environment which becomes carbon dioxide and that is fixed into the plants as carbohydrates in this part of this moving around cycle is the same carbon atom it's not a new carbon atom whereas when you're burning fossil fuel your liberating new carbon atoms from deposits in the Earth. And you're adding new carbons the environment whereas carbon coming from you or I- Carbon Macau is a cycling carbon. It's the same carbon dioxide atom on different molecules of carbon dioxide methane that had been cycling in the environment for hundreds of thousands millions. Billions of years. So there's a very different story being told here and that's where regenerative agriculture comes in this idea that hey look Bison Buffalo. Buffalo ELK PRONGHORNS deer. There were two hundred and fifty million of them in the US in eighteen fifty. They've always been walking on the land and eating the grass and pooping and peeing pooping p. Is An integral part of the ecosystem of that land. And that fertilizes the land. That's how the land stays fertile. They eat the grass. The grass becomes poop in P and those nutrients go back to the ground in their proven. P. And then when they die they die on the land. There's no nuclear reactors here. We're not destroying elements. We're not destroying phosphorus potassium. They're all sort of wrapped up in the same ecosystem when an animal dies on a prairie all those nutrients go back into the LAN. And that's that's what regenerative agriculture seeks to seeks to recreate this kind of ecosystems perspective of raising animals. Ruminant animals have always been on the face well not always but for the last for last tens of millions of years have been on the face of the planet grazing and as part of ecosystems and regenerative agriculture system is creating an ecosystem on a farm where animals graze and live and die on the Land and Poop and pee on the land. And we're not putting them in case does not putting them in clustered animal feeding operations so we're allowing the soil that they're walking onto the enriched with nutrients from those animals. I saw this one thing yesterday. I'm really into surfing and one of the best surfers in the world is named John John. Florence and he has a video series on youtube called Villa via L. A. And they're sailing this boat it's a Catamaran and they sail this Catamaran from Hawaii lives to these islands Palmira toll fanning island that are way out in the Middle Pacific there in the middle of nowhere but they show up at Palmyra atoll. And it's really. It's so beautiful to see. It's this island in the middle of Pacific. There's twenty-six people live on the whole island. Which sounds a little crazy to me in all this researchers from the Nature Conservancy but in this video that you such a great job of describing the ecosystem on that island basically there's birds there's plants and there's fish and the way it works. The birds eat the fish. You know birds eat fish. And then the birds fly up onto the island and they poop and the poop goes into the soil and you know makes the soil rich so that plants can grow and then there's run off from the island poop and the nutrients from the soil and the bird. Poop goes into the ocean and that feeds micro plankton and little little algae that the fish can eat and the fish gettin- by the birds again. It's a closed loop just works right. It's not that the birds eating the fish is a bad thing or the birds. Pooping on the ground is a bad thing is that every piece of that is an integral part of the equation and it's the same way with ruminant animals. They eat the grass they poop on the grass and then the grass grows bigger because they put the grass so it's disputable ecosystem and if we disrupt those were in trouble but if we let the natural world do it. It's pretty ingenious. Guys does a doctor Paul Salad Dino does have the record for saying poop on the podcast you guys think tank so probably official piano -gratulations. How many times did I say POOP POOP counter? It's about thirty seven count so many so many poop. I don't know if we're like we're going to stay on this topic of regenerative agriculture. But I did want to go back to the When we were talking about corona virus. Because you were talking about how like you know. One of the big issues is just like individuals like their metabolic syndrome and type of food that they're eating and that could be something that if it was mainstream that could help people but the thing is like it's not mainstream right and we didn't really get to ask like what your thoughts on like. The approach of the quarantine are because since that message isn't mainstream and since we have so many unhealthy individuals right It doesn't do you think there would have been a better option to this. We're currently doing because like we are where we are right. We can't really change it. So what do you think would have been a better idea for where we are right? This is a tough one because it's not really fair to Monday morning quarterback it and there's still a lot of speculation at a lot that's unwritten about all of this throughout the pandemic. I've been vocal and I have not been quiet about the fact that I'm a little skeptical of the quarantine and I'll just say at the beginning. This doesn't mean that I want people to die. I don't want my mom and dad. I don't want your mom and dad too high in anyone's parents. I don't anyone to die macron virus but it's okay to say that I'm skeptical of a quarantine and also not be saying that I want people to die that we're looking at lives versus lives. And what's the cost of quarantine? And what is the effectiveness of quarantine has been my main question so if we just back up and we think about this. It's a little bit hard for me to wrap my head around as well. But if we think about the effectiveness of a quarantine the effectiveness of what we're doing right now. I'm not convinced that we have data to really clearly say that quarantine works will doing. Works that a lockdown really works and of course. It's easy now to say. Hey look there's been seventy thousand. I think this morning there were sixty eight thousand deaths in the US from corona virus. It's easy to say as trump wants to say. Hey that was supposed to be two million. I saved one point nine nine million lives which is of course complete baloney like. We can't say that that's all speculation. There's another there's an epidemiologist from U. DUB from the University of Washington where I did my residency now making rounds on twitter. He didn't aditorial in New York Times saying that. Her immunity isn't isn't viable. Because we would we would potentially get something called overshoot and that would cost US millions of lives. What he's talking about will hurt him. Immunity is the idea that if enough of the population get exposed to virus and develops antibodies. The virus can really spread anymore because there are so many people that really can't harbor the virus that can't spread the virus and most epidemiologic model suggested at least sixty at least six. Zero percent of the population has to be exposed to the virus to get hurt immunity. Now we don't actually know right now. How many people in our population have already been exposed to the virus and but this is now saying. Hey herd. Immunity isn't gonNA work because it's not gonNA stop at sixty percent. Sixty percent of people get exposed to the virus than probably eighty percent of people are going to get exposed to the virus because so many people are getting exposed to the virus that it's just GonNa Move Society which is true but he is basing his figures on these case fatality rates which are inaccurate. We don't actually have a good case. Taliban rate number because we don't know how many people have been exposed to corona virus and so his speculation to me is more fearmongering and I was really disappointed. He was publicizing. This kind of gaining traction and saying herd immunity isn't going to work and I guess his idea is that all that we can do now is wait for a vaccine for the next eighteen twenty four months which to me doesn't sound like a viable strategy either. So we're thinking about a lockdown. We have to imagine like what does it actually doing. It's preventing people from coming into contact with each other so theoretically could slow the spread of virus but eventually the viruses never going to go away. We have to remember that. This entire pandemic across the entire world began with a handful of cases in Wuhan China. So we don't actually know where the virus came from. There was an article in Newsweek recently suggesting that potentially came from a bio weapons lab in China Newsweek. It's not a controversial magazine. We don't know where the virus came from it could have moved from a bat to a Pangolin. To a human could have been released from a lab in China will never know the answer to this question but regardless it does appear that a worldwide pandemic worldwide began with less than twenty cases in Wuhan China. I don't understand how we believe that this virus is not going to cover the earth. Eventually I think that before. It's all said and done in the next year and the next six months almost every single person on this plan is going to be in contact with corona virus. It doesn't make sense for it to happen any other way and you can say oh well. That's why China did the lockdowns is they didn't want it to spread more and they locked down to too late and if we hadn't mock people down if we had locked down sooner it when it spreads to the whole world. Well guess what we're saying. We're doing a lockdown. We're saying you during the corn. But we're really not. You know a lockdown lockdown you put everyone in a shipping container and let them live there for a week. And that's GONNA. That's a lockdown. We still need to have garbage. We have people working on utilities. We need to have doctors and nurses and hospitals. Yeah people at Grocery Stores Sunny to have planes in the air. He will still have to live their lives. We simply cannot bring the earth to a grinding halt which means that it can't bring the earth to a grinding. Halt are really just paying lip service. This concept of a quarantine is pretending. This is slowing infections. We can't say that because we don't know the alternative situation and if you look at the data there's all sorts of ways to to analyze data. You can do up down sideways right laugh. You know folded into Origami. Do whatever you want with it but if you look at the data it's really not that clear that in the locations in the world where a lockdown was instituted quickly and instituted very strictly the really any consistent correlation with a lower death-ray. You can look at Sweden. For instance and Sweden is like the topic of everyone's conversation. Sweden's death rate is but is in the middle of Europe. You know they didn't really do a huge lockdown. They let people go to bars. Young out and about they said shelter the old. Don't let the old people get exposed is probably wise. But let's all go about our lives and be reasonable. We're not going to walk around sneezing on each other. I'm not going to Lick my hand. Look every DOORKNOB and if you WANNA walk six people. That's fine do that. But let's not shut down the economy. Let's not do a full lockdown and their death rate is not astronomical. It's on the order of the United States. It's actually significantly better than seven of the hardest hit states in the. Us were lockdowns. Were swift and enter Coenen. It's better than about half of Europe and it's worse than about partier. People say oh sweetness. Twice the death rate of Finland Finland is a much more northern country or at least the majority of feminine is not the Sweden. And it's much less populated country. The majority of the deaths in Sweden are in Stockholm. So again it's it's so tricky to compare these. Nobody wants to pretend that they know what's going on that they can say the lockdown work because Xyz. But there's really no correlation that. I've been able to see in any of the analysis that I've looked at between swiftness or the severity of lockdown case fatality rates across the board. It's all over the place you can see places where there was no lock down. And they didn't and they didn't really have bad outcomes because he places where there was a swift lockdown and they had really bad outcomes. Iceland is another model that we can look at. Iceland has a pretty small population. But it's an island and you could say well it's not a very. It's not a very you know clustered island but Iceland has tested a lot more of the population on April twenty first. They tested twelve to thirteen percent of the population which is massively more than anywhere else in the world and per that twelve percent like based on those numbers they had a much higher infection rate than we do in the US but they had a much lower death rate too. So why's that they didn't really do a lockdown in Iceland? I think the data the more you concentrated more that I look at the data and of course open to everyone's interpretation of this. I don't see a pattern between lockdowns in quarantine and death rates. What I see is a pattern between the overall metabolic health of country and death rates. And to me we're GONNA get exposed just like most of us are exposed to the flu. Just like most of us are exposed to the common cold and so this epidemiologists dob is saying. We can't do heard immunity and I'm saying you're going to get hurt immunity whether you like it or not. That's the only way we're not gonNA have a vaccine in. Eighteen months will probably have a vaccine two years. Maybe but maybe we'll have axiom eighteen months but it's not going to be an in six months. I mean trump is saying by the end of twenty twenty. That's complete. I don't know he's talking about his vast right now. Like we're never going to have access by the end of two thousand twenty so like if you look at the data. It's just not clear that lockdowns are changing anything other. This is the point of a lockdown to prevent healthcare system overwhelm and if you are not overwhelming healthcare system. I have struggled to find any other benefit of a lockdown because most about going to get exposed and there is a possibility. That's the best thing but if you're going to get exposed to corona virus you WANNA get exposed casually. This is this is one situation. Where casual exposures? Good thing you want to get exposed casual. You don't WanNa get big innocuous you don't WanNa get exposed in a hospital. You WanNa get exposed at a grocery store and get a small amount of virus. That's going to tickle your immune system and maybe generate some antibodies. And again this is. This is hard to kind of quantify. But that's how it usually works. That's how these viruses move around. You don't Wanna get a big exposure and you know letting kids go back to school. Kids may or may not be transmission. Vectors like this is all very delicate to say that. The lockdown work has just in my opinion complete conjecture. Answer your question. That's kind of a complicated one. I think that was awesome. I you know I wonder you know. This is a crazy proposal and Obviously nothing like this. What happened but imagine if it did if they just quarantined us from junk food then it would be a question on what's junk food and what's not and I kinda understand that battle and a lot of the companies that sell candy and sell frankenfoods and stuff like that would would be upset but maybe that would have been the best. The best bet. Hey we need to be healthier. Because America's so fat and we were so metabolic messed up. Everyone has to work out the same time every morning and and we're dishing it now. These foods only like these are the only food you can get. You can't get junk food at this time. Can you imagine what would happen? There would be riots in the street and but I think that's you know. The data supports that as much as the data supports any of the models of corona virus. That were used to generate a lockdown or quarantine. The data very clearly supports the metabolic. Unhealth is a huge risk factor for grown virus. So that's fan. That's brilliant mark mark for president. I wonder if that was a factor in when they started having discussions if they said okay. Look you know. These other countries are getting it but we're one of the most unhealthy countries That there is and we. We better protect the people from themselves. At this point maybe that was You know maybe that was something that was factored in there but we kept the liquor stores open right and I think we talked about this on the podcast that you went together a few days ago junk food. Sales are up cereal. Sales are up all the all the processed food sales are Andrew. I like lecture charms. I'm sorry I can't help it. Sales are up to right yeah. Nci and then. That's what I was going to ask like. So is the population in Sweden just like significantly healthier. Therefore their strategies wouldn't have worked here anyways. I mean I'd have to look at it. I don't know the EPA theology of the sweetest population. What we do know about Sweden. Is that a lot of the deaths are in elderly people. There's the deaths and elderly people are represented any higher proportion in Sweden. And I think fifty eight percent could be a little off on the number I think. Fifty eight percent of elderly people in Sweden are elderly homes where they're in high density environments and so if you have all of the people who are susceptible to the virus in places where they are near other people where they could get transmitted to the virus in that case you could see a higher rate of death and elderly people. I think the Norwegian countries probably do have higher or better health than America. And You bring up a great point Andrew like would those strategies not have worked here because we're so about the unhealthy possibly but my counterpoint. To that is hey look I have not seen anything and I could be wrong about this but I've not seen any evidence to the contrary number one that we're not all going to be. Eventually you know remember. This infection began with five people in China if there are five people left in the US with this infection after the quarantine. Why couldn't it just happen? All over again right. Are you telling me that after the quarantine is going to be zero cases of SARS Kobe? Two left on this planet at some point in the next two months. We're going to have to open the planet. We're GONNA be traveling again just like they were before and so this began with five cases in China. There's going to be five cases left in fact there's probably GonNa be ten x that are fifty x one hundred x that four thousand x that left in the world at that point and we're going to open up and everybody's GonNa Start traveling like it's just inescapable? My point is not that we should continue to lock down. My point is that it's inescapable that viruses going to move to the population therefore those who are susceptible will will have to deal with it. And how do we become strong hung in the face of a virus while we think about our immune system sleep exercise diet period? And it's not about hiding from it. Because I don't think we'll be able to get the the lockdown negligible if it's is you know everyone's like oh it's flattened curveball. Blah but it's definitely causing a lot of other issues and the more recent one that I've seen was like On the news. They're saying like a possibility of a meat shortage. Are you concerned about that right now? I got a Bo. I figured you'd probably yeah but just wondering but I do think so. I mean people are talking about the meat shortage more and more and I think this is. Why farms like White Oak Bell? Campo says why you started eat carbs. It's why I know how to fast. I'll be fine. There's a meat shortage. Just go go to Texas anyway. I'm moving to Texas this month. I'm sure there's deer out there I can eat. I can eat deer and honey all day long. You know go hunt out. We'll take out the ball. I was shooting the bow yesterday. I'm getting I'm getting ready for the meat shortage and not just comment on that one thing. You said again to Seema's question. We can't actually say that that the the quarantine has flattened the curve. It's possible but again. What is the point flattening? The curve the point of flattening the curve is to not let the healthcare system get overwhelm wants. Your healthcare system capacity has not been exceeded. You don't WANNA keep flattening. The curve beyond that. Sweden's ice were never more than half folding. Never got close to being overwhelmed. I did a podcast on my podcast with Kurt Parsley. And he made this very good point. That if you look at the flattening the curve graph it has a steep curve which goes across the dotted line which is the theory the theoretical ceiling of the healthcare system. And you have more flat line or you have a more gradual slope. Which is the flat curve. Will the whole reason you're finding the curve is not break the healthcare ceiling but you wanna get that line is close to the healthcare ceiling can because the area under both of those curves representing the total number of infections is the same and if you go to slowly you're just going to draw this out forever so there is a possibility that if you flatten the curve too much you just delaying herd immunity. Which is what we're all going to get eventually and as you're saying there are many ramifications to flagging the curve there's economic implications which are catastrophic at this point or hopefully not but thirty million people unemployed like. We're not even doing the math. Not Weighing this right. It's crazy. Thirty MILLION PEOPLE UNEMPLOYED. What is the cost of that monetarily in terms of lives and then if people can't work what if the food system you know what if the food systems are not available then we're going to lose a lot more lives in a lot more people are gonNA suffer so? I think that there's a potential that you can flat curve too much. And you know. There are lots of people who are zealous. They're flattening the curves zealots. Now we just WANNA keep lockdown forever and I'm thinking I don't understand that it's a horrible idea and the meat shortage situation. Do you think there's really much truth to that or I mean to me. It still seems like they're still going to be cows and they're still going to be meeting. Just that the ranchers and stuff like that you know my understanding is they have to. Kinda kill these animals at certain times to get the best prices and to get the best flavor profile of of the meat and stuff like that. And that's part of the reason why they're they're talking about this but to me. It doesn't actually make any sense that there would be a shortage of meat because It would just open up. Some secondary businesses probably Because it might impact the real big companies But local butchers and places like that should be able to be just fine and maybe even thrive and do better than normal. I would hope so. I hope that it would allow the small farmers to to do great now. The tricky part will be that the small farmers have to get their cows. Slaughterhouses and at the slaughterhouses are controlled by the big agribusiness companies Thais in etc it could be challenging. But I think it's more of a supply chain issue the same number of cows. It's just the supply chain again. I think that if if push comes to shove and we get anywhere close to that. We're going to have to say hey. We can't have shortage of food like we need people to eat and in that case. It's very clear that that the lockdown quarantines are really not worth it to cure is worse than the disease relation. There I mean I just saw someone on twitter posts an article today saying the the the number of like the lives. The number of lives that could be lost by reopening the economy. And it's like it's kind of articles just made me so frustrated. I think like you just don't know that like everyone is just living in fear and speculating. About how many lives will be lost will continue to say. We're lose millions of lives of the reopen the economy. And it's like what we're GONNA lose millions of lives if we don't reopen the economy and and those projections whether it's the epidemiologist you dob or the projections. That million people are gonNA lose their lives. It's it's all based on numbers that are probably very inaccurate. And there's it's really become divided now. There's two goose people here. Saying he looked. Numbers are an accurate. We need to reopen other people saying the number. We'RE GONNA lose millions of people. We can reopen and a second group. I'm just kind of like our standing like. What are you what you WANNA do like? What are our options? We do sustain our homes for the next twelve months. I don't get it. You mentioned how this is one of those viruses that probably a majority of the population of Donald Population's GonNa get at a certain point There are some people that have mentioned Treating this like a chicken pox party where people go someplace and they just contract a little bit of it. We had a guy Dr Petar who is like actually want to try and get it early And then you mentioned just getting a casually grocery store if you want if you were going to get it now. Do you think there is any type of validity into purposefully trying to contracted early on or you think. Just do what you can you get it. You get it and keep moving on. I think you just get in your normal life. I don't think we need to go to chicken pox party level. But you know this is. This is such an interesting point and and mark has spoken to this on his social media as well so the number we're talking about here is the are not which is the fancy medical word. For how many people will you in fact if you have the virus and we know there's some people who race to matic and they can shed when they're asymptomatic and if you look at the are not for the flu it's low? I think it's one point. Two one point four meaning with everyone gets the flu will in fact one point two to one point. Four people with flu. Now we don't really know the are not for Corona virus but I think when this is all said and done we may end up with a very high are not meaning that if you can give this virus to a lot of people if there's a long latency period when you're a symptomatic and you can shed the virus a we may have already seen the virus move through most of the population if the virus is transmissible as it may be then again. We're not going to be able to slow the spread no matter what we do. And you know we're all GONNA GET EXPOSED NORMALLY. We don't force that but there's a potential that the are not for this virus is even higher than we're expecting. Now be three to five or more high end of are not in terms of infectious diseases. Protest to sixteen to eighteen. It probably isn't that high. But if they are not for current virus viruses five or six or ten. It could be much more prevalent than we believe in. It could have expanded very far already. Especially because it's a symptom matic. I heard a guy on Joe Rogan. Either Day. John Kerr talking about this and saying the bad part about this virus is that it spread when it's a symptomatic and I thought that's not really the bad part of the virus. That's just a normal part of the virus Maybe a good part of the virus that spreads like that and then it spreads quickly I think that means that it's going to move to the population. It doesn't make it more lethal because it spreads when you're symptomatic. I think the majority of the time with these respiratory viruses regardless of the are not. They moved through a lot of the population. The flu has an are not of one point. Two to one point. Four and the CDC estimates that it infects thirty five to fifty five million people in the US every year. Thirty five to fifty five million are not of one point two or one point four if the of Corona bias is five times that we've already infected the entire US population or thereabouts. Right if the are not of course irises three. Then we're looking at hundred and fifty million people getting infected or ninety four hundred million people getting. These are huge numbers right. We think about the number of people to get in contact with the flu every year. We say Oak Rotavirus is probably more transmissible. When you're a symptomatic is the transmission when you're a symptomatic as severe we're saying does the viral load matter if you get supposed to corona virus from someone that's as symptomatic that affect the severity of the course of your illness. Possibly it makes it easier. Maybe we don't know but there's a very real possibility that but it's okay if the virus transmits when say symptomatic and I'll just mention this and then all I'll stop Iran but if you look at these contagious these innocuous that we know of the diamond princess. Us Has Theodore Roosevelt. Cook County. Jail the very interesting so Cook County. Jail has forty five hundred people in it. It's a jail. Everyone lives in a house. It's the biggest fraternity house ever in the worst way. If the are not of the virus is three to five or more everyone is touching surfaces. Everyone is moving around if someone in a fraternity house gets the flu. Probably most people in the fraternity house get the flu if somebody in a fraternity house gets corona virus probably the majority of them get exposed and we see the same thing with the diamond princess on the USS Theodore Roosevelt which is a cruise ship and aircraft carrier. The number of cases in those places is much less than the population so cook county jail. Had I wrote it down. Five hundred cases out of four thousand four hundred people in jail but the majority of the jail probably got exposed to chronic Irish already diamond princess. Twenty seven hundred passengers plus crew. There were seven hundred people who are who are positive for corona virus but probably every single one of those people came in contact with on surfaces. They did test showing. The virus was present on surfaces for days after after the ship was docked before they did the disinfections. There's virus on that ship. You've got to believe that everyone on the diamond. Princess got exposed or the majority got exposed to corona virus but only only seven hundred out of twenty seven hundred showed up positive on the the testing on the USA's Theodore Roosevelt. There were five thousand sailors. Only twenty percent came up positive and so again. It's like you can see these innocuous where everyone spreading it. You're living in a fraternity house. An aircraft carrier. For God's sakes like you bunks are afoot apart. You know like everybody. In the whole aircraft carrier got exposed I can't see a situation. Not but only twenty percent were positive in that twenty percents. Only forty percent were symptomatic. So the chances are that we just don't know how it's spreading and and how prevalent it is but it might even be a good thing that it spreads when it's asymptomatic because that's how a virus moves and we're all going to be exposed to them and I think that the reason I wanted to talk about this with our not is it. The are not is going to affect the way the deaths look. The story isn't over yet if the flu spreads more quick more slowly than flu. That's going to be spread out from October to March if corona virus spreads more quickly. We may concentrate a very bad flu season into an eight week period or a ten week period. Because it's spreading more quickly which will make it look like. It's killing more people but we won't know until it's really. Kinda calmed down if you look at the numbers. The number of deaths the number of new cases have started to decline in the US. Which makes me think in many countries that already has. Spain. Italy on the downslope right. Some of these countries have started to reopen the not seeing a peak so if this is really the case it's possible we've seen the wave. Corona virus has moved our population and it looked so bad because it was so transmissible because it moved through so quickly that all those six months or four months or five months of flu deaths were condensed into ten weeks. That makes sense. Yeah Absolutely I. I haven't been sick in years with the exception of Getting sick in January and I I kind of think I may have already gotten it. I I just got sick for a real short period of time. It was a good forty eight forty eight hour. Kind of ASS kicker and It was strange. I Remember Waking Up. You know on the third day and being like that's weird like whatever I had gone. I don't recall that ever happening to me before so I remember it kind of you know. Being a strange feeling of like my lungs were clear. My nose was clear and everything. It just Kinda like disappeared but I think a massive part of our population has already had it and what. I'm hoping is. I hope that more information gets out and I hope that whenever we hear Corona Virus I hope people are a little bit less scared Still take the necessary precautions as as you think are are necessary but I think that a lot of times when we hear more people contracted the corona virus. I I think that makes a lot of people's heart flutter a little bit it gives them a little bit of anxiety and I'm hoping that over a period of time That bothers people a lot less. Because we we have facts that we can match up to it and say Okay Listen. It is killing people. It has killed people but so do a lot of Illnesses so do a lot of viruses. That even now the way we're trending it's it's on the same order of magnitude as you know the flu. It's not to say that it's the flu and to be fair. It's killed more people in short amount of time than a regular flu virus. But it's not an order of magnitude more deadly right. You look at the case rates in Germany between point three point four. It's on the same order of magnitude. Meaning that every multiplier of ten is an order of magnitude right. You have one and then. An Order of magnitude greater than one is ten in order of magnitude greater than ten is one hundred etc so if the corona virus for an order of magnitude more deadly than the flu would say wow. It's ten times more deadly than the flu. But right now it's it's really kind of the same order of magnitude as the flu now. I won't debate that. It looks differently and this is where I think most people get so confused. It seems to be killing people more quickly or in a shorter amount of time but as I said. We don't really have a story fully written yet. We're going to have to see how it's going to probably take another six to eight weeks before we really have the beginnings of horizon at least in terms of our perspective but my my thinking that we may see that this is a this is a virus that has a similarly tally. The flu but spreads allow more quickly so a compressed the whole season into two months or a whole season into two and a half three months in as I talked about in my podcast with Kurt Parsley. We really won't know until we see next flu season or the next corona virus season. Because it's possible that the majority of the people this isn't sound crass but it's possible that the majority of people who would have died from respiratory illness of one kind or another. This year are losing their lives to corona virus which means that over the rest of the year we may see less lives loss from respiratory illness. We may see less of that sort of frail part of the population losing their lives because they've died during this pandemic and in that case we say okay like no death is good. It's all tragic. It's all stories. It's someone's mother or brother or family but from a population of de Meteorology level. Things start to look a little differently realized every year there is a virus of some sort of does this and this year we happen to have virus in the flu but in past years when there's been a very bad flu season or a double flu season the next flu season isn't that bad Because a lot of the people that were susceptible probably you know went to the big barbecue in the sky on the previous year. Yeah it makes sense and it's not it's not it's not to invalidate. I know that it's a story of everyone's life but it's just looking at populations and and how viruses moved to the population. How illness affects the population. I mean the one of the inevitable things in death deaths in life is that we will all die so we're all gonna get there eventually an outcome for all of us and I think it helps us frame it because as you're saying mark I don't I don't think the hysteria and the fear is productive and so much what I see in the media is a hysteria message. Fear Message and it's one fear message after another and I fear message was millions are going to die in a second name. Millions didn't look like they were GonNa die. The second fear message was you know everyone's GonNa get our or you know. Millions could die and then the third fear message was. We don't even know if you're going to be immune to this virus if you get it which which doesn't seem to be the case. It seems that that's that's that was just. That did not sit well with me from the beginning. The reports of that concern from South Korea were based on false positives from RTP CR studies so everything we know about immunity is that if the viruses mutate you will be immune to it. It's how that's how human immune systems work. So that was that was the next fear based messaging from the media and I fear that the idea that the next incarnation of fear base media will be You know this overshooting of herd immunity in that. Oh we can't do that. Another incarnation of the fear based messaging media was a young healthy. People are dying from Corona virus. What is more scary than that young? How no one is immune. Everyone is susceptible. And I use the term immune loosely in that sentence but if young healthy will die krona virus everyone could die not induces panic and there may be some anomalies out there when you look at the numbers overwhelmingly people that are dying. From current virus are elderly poor nutrition and Metabolic. Leeann well for the media. To present this case young healthy were dying from chronic virus. You're not safe is so misleading. And many of the people who the media is presenting young and healthy like Boris Johnson. The Prime Minister of England are are overweight. And they have insulin resistance I mean this is not fat shaming this is just the reality so it speaks to so many levels of our conceptualization of what he really is and I try to scare us with what's going to happen with the economy and then now they're trying to scare us with food. I think water and energy are the only two things left. You know those will be the next. The next thing they he they try to make make us panic over. Hey it was so good to have you on the show. What why are you moving to Texas? What's going on down in Texas? I got all kinds of exciting things happening trying to get that tax break. I trying to get a tax break so I don't know when this podcast coming out. I can't talk about it just yet. I got some exciting Russian. I got some exciting product even to us What's that not even to us? Your boys like we made you famous pro all right so you guys know him super excited about nose to tail eating. I'm building a business that I'M GONNA launch in Texas and it's GonNa be a business that is going to do desiccated or supplements so in a way. Yeah we're GONNA do them Oregon. We're GONNA make the Oregon pills convenient for people because he knows the tail is my heart and so The name of the company is hard and soil and the goal. We're going to start with New Zealand farms The best farms we can find in New Zealand to do generally raised agriculture. And make to do the pills. And then we're GONNA MOVE TO USA supply chain for these dedicated organ supplements that is GonNa Launch in. I believe June's people getting a made in China. I'm right new last. Yeah that's awesome. Congratulations that is that is so cool and I just couldn't I just can't handle California anymore. It's any laws here. I do have to run from the police. I get arrested where I almost get arrested for surfing. And you know like I tried to foil board the other night in the lagoon and you know there are people on the lagoon you can. You can surf on the lagoon. But you can't go to the lagoon through the past that I went on paths close because on that task you can catch Corona Virus. But everyone else you can on the lagoon but I will goon through the corona virus path and they were going to arrest me and I was like I had. I'd like scurry away. You have a practice in San Diego though right I. But it's a virtual practice you've seen clients virtually everywhere. And you know my talk is. Yeah my podcasts will continue. I'm just moving taxes for. We've got such good friends there. So many great people in Taxes Anthony Gusts Kyle Kingsbury. My friend Kurtz when people are in Texas now and it's just that it's a little it's little bit more of a space where I can be wild. You know any little space to shoot my bow and walk around barefoot in hunting more and I'll be in the lakes on my foil board now. There's a wave parking in Waco where I'll be surfing to anyone more space to be crazy guys. Come out and visit yet. You know you keep saying those detail and I gave you straight gold when you were S. T. I can't believe you're not going to name. The company asked to mouth you. They've already been. It's already been trademark pixel already mark on that. We were too late. Yeah where can people grab your book you can get it at the Carnivore Code Book Dot Com? It's on Amazon. And the exciting news. Is that the book was purchased by a. Big Five publisher. Mifflin Harcourt The book is available for sale now and will always be for sale but in August it will be republished with HMO and have much broader distribution and people will be able to get it everywhere. It'll be for sale at target and Walmart and Barnes and noble in everywhere right now. It's just on Amazon and I did record the audible. The audiobook in my voice the audible maybe down Amazon right now. We're trying to get back up. But there's an e book audio and print copy the Carnivore Code. Check IT OUT. Sick awesome man. Thanks for thanks for your time appreciate it. Where can people find you? I- carnivore? Md everywhere so my website is carnivore. Md DOT COM and at Carnivore. The all the socials. I'm following in Mark Bells footsteps and I also have a race to zero followers. Because I love that so much and I think that we should be truthful and authentic and Mine isn't going that well either but you know every every day I lose some people so I still have hope awesome. Have a great rest of your day. Thanks guys we'll talk to you soon. Piece yeah yeah the solid man. Yeah that didn't suck right the more people we talked. It just seems like Like my fear with the lockdown and everything is just prolonging the time between you and I get it between you. You know your neighbors getting it and so on until the next flu season comes around you know what I mean like. Let's let's get it all taken care of right now and then hopefully get rid of it and then next year. We'll see what comes but that's my concern right now is like let's rip this off like a bandaid. Something really but no other guests is really touched on that we've had on and because the speed of the spread right there's GonNa be a Lotta concentrated deaths and then it's almost like it's going to be like it's GonNa hit a lot of the population kill a lot of people fizzle out and by the end of the year. It might have not killed as many people as the flu. Does you know what I mean. That's I haven't heard anybody really mentioned that about it before. So that's really. It's a really interesting thing to think about. You said a lot of great stuff and I don't think any of its controversial I. I liked You know he. He stuck to Some of it was opinion which anyone can disagree with but a lot of it was Was sticking to the facts and that's a great observation of Some of the other countries. That haven't taken the same precaution. But they're you know have ha have had a lot less deaths. United States is is is a tricky thing you know we're not Sweden We have so many more millions of millions and millions of people and Distinct have been you know. Things are different in each culture and things are so different and each Area that it's it's hard to. It's hard to just say okay like let's just implement these rules. You know to to this area and the implement these rules to this area. And so I I do think that Some of the differences that we've had in terms of how we've handled things I think are good. I think the quarantine I think a pause think. Hey everyone stay home because we're not sure what's going on. I think that makes sense. What what if our country was under attack from another country And imagine if You know there is Missiles to like Virginia and there was missiles to Texas nerves missiles to kind of fighting going on a bunch of different areas or being attacked internally by terrorism or something like that it was happening sporadically and it would be logical for say. Hey you know like everyone to stay home because we don't know what's going on at the moment we're not sure what in the hell this is. I think this case is no different But I think everybody is in agreement at this point Or it seems like a lot of people are an agreement at this point me to get people moving again and even like the stimulus packages and stuff. I understand. I understand what they're four and why they exist but I don't in my opinion is never a great idea to give people something for nothing you know and I some people might say well. It's not for nothing. It's because we're we're we're out of work but I just don't think if you if you line that up in the if you line that up with history of giving people something for nothing. It doesn't usually help I. I know my own experience any anyone that I ever have given money to all of a sudden I become a bank. You know rather rather than just a helping hand you know and so I think a lot of times when people get something for nothing. Kinda can condition them to let their guard down and and I got this twelve hundred bucks you know. I'm GonNa Kinda chill now that you can do much. Twelve hundred bucks but I think it's time for everyone to build their keep their minds strong. And just get ready. Get ready to get back to work and and get get ready to to to find a job if you lost your job. I mean we have to all we can do now is try to solve the problems that we have ahead of us right now. Yeah and like I said you know a while ago like Kinda what Paul was saying too about the deaths. It just sped things up. It just did it at an uncomfortable rate. You know like what he was saying about the people's respiratory issues like they were probably going to die this year anyways. It sucks to say that but you know when they contracted the virus. It just happened a lot sooner. And there's no way to comfortably say that or to you know say In a way that doesn't hurt but you know again it. Just it sped things up by the uncomfortable rate and I think ad just like rip the band aid often. Let's just kit over with you. Know get it all over and done with an yeah. Let's get back to moving around and get back to work. I say. Congratulations to both you guys to everybody. That's on the show and everybody that supports his show because Paul moving to Texas starting his own supplement company is due in large part to this. Podcast I mean. That's that's powerful. That gives me goosebumps. That's so exciting. Like it's legit. It's not this is not made up and I'm not saying that he couldn't have done it without a certainly not saying that at all maybe he would have landed on some other people's shows and maybe he would've got some footing through youtube or through Instagram Or something of that nature but him coming on our podcast Has Been has been something that has been Great for all of us because we've got to become friends with them. We got to learn from him I got to grow a lot and learn a lot of great things from him and I just think I I couldn't be more. I couldn't be more excited. Formatting is great and You know it does add to a long list of people that we need to go visit down there in Texas. So we'll have to get our asses down there at some point. Yeah and just for reference when he came on our show. He had two thousand followers on instagram fascinated. No ANY AD no front teeth. And he had tattoos on his neck so fast and he's even eating carbs. Now thank you. You're welcome. It's the opposite of Joe Exotic. We turn them into a better adages. Yeah he's doing Jitsu. He's Surfing. He can move around all weird. I don't know if you guys ever seen some of his. Oh yea movement and stuff that he can do pretty like an animal. Yeah Yeah The an animal movements right. That's crazy about his book too. It's about to be like an all those major bookstores. All that's talking awesome. So he's killing guys. What did you guys got going on for today? encima basically has me prepped. And ready to go for the across games sent me a workout. Yesterday I did it this morning and it crushed hair. It's okay here man. You can have armpit hair but yeah we're got was awesome. Do thank you for that. He me doing some dumbbell presses some push-ups with rose in there Those are really hard to do and they were probably the hardest part of the whole workout bunch of pull ups shoulder. Presses curls was yeah you don't WanNa ask people that professionally help people with online coaching ED program for people. It's not you're better off asking like you're lazy buddy who's GonNa be like? Yeah man do like a couple of sets curls and do some overhead presses and that'll be good and then then tomorrow you know. Do some rose and do some pushups. Now be good but anybody. That's like insieme like whenever I've asked for help with from Jesse burdock or somebody like that. It's like it's it's a death trap every time it's like why. Why did I should know better than this? I shouldn't ask but it is nice to have them give you workout that works. You know because if it's if it's if it's left to you you're going to be kind of lazy about it right. Yeah it is funny because he put like the reps Twelve to fifteen. You didn't really have to put the DASH fifteen because I'm GonNa hit that twelve and then move on. Oh man that's great tough man but I got through all the pull ups pretty good so I was happy about that. Five by eight though felt talk. Yeah I got some Lifton. Do a little bit later today going to. I did some swings yesterday and some overhead presses and stuff like. I'm a pretty bad overhead presses especially with these triad things. There are a little bit like kettlebells. My left shoulder has been a little weird in terms of just overhead pressing. And I've never been good at overhead pressing so I'm gonNA continue to Continue to work on that. I figured out something pretty cool with my ex D MED ball. I've been throwing it up the hill and then it just rolls right back down me so I I've been picking it up like. Oh Yeah I've been picking it up in whatever way I can pick it up You know sometimes I'll pick it up Kind of like with a wide stance and kind of like dead lifted or sometimes all kind of intentionally. Because it's not heavy dench kind of pick it up to the side and then I'd just chuck it. Whatever way I want to I might I might bail it like it's a big old thing. A hey or something like that or might throw it backwards over my head. So that was that was actually harder than anything else. I've been doing in a while but I'll probably mess with that again. And the steeper the hill. Obviously the quicker. It's going to roll back down to me so Basically out there playing catch myself. That's awesome no until you guys. This I feel like in the past few days have been gone a little bit. Stir crazy inside because I've been working a lot inside. I've been getting my walks outside and some sunlight but maybe like kind of disoriented this morning. You're like Salad Dino and you're like what's going on you know when I looked at the counter. I didn't think we had a podcast this morning and I looked at my phone at like eight. Thirty something away Paul Salad. Oh snap all say oh shit. Is this real so yeah but man I need to go spend all day outside or something crazy but you need if you need a hand job. I think Andrew can help you out. I'll drive over to his house. You'll think of the Cinco de Mayo. Sure we still maintain six feet apart and accomplish that they say six Peter six inches hard. I can't wait to lift today though. I can't wait to lift today. You guys can always come back up here. Maybe we should arrange that. Maybe we should Have you guys come back for a day or two? Hit Up some hiccups up more podcast and some more lifton go hit up those stairs again. Oh Jesus oh they're back open. They opened it back up so I couldn't go down there for a few days but I'm going to go down there today and off myself. That's great all right guys. Will Andrew take on out of here buddy? Thank you everybody for checking out. Today's episode This thank you to Piemontese. Be For sponsoring this podcast. We were talking about the meat shortage a little bit. So if you're like. I am head over to Piedmontese DOT COM and put in order ACE APO Please follow the podcast at Mark Bells Power Project on Instagram at Mark Bells power or M B power project on Tick Tock and twitter. My instagram is an Im Andruzzi and seema where you be. Encima Anyang on instagram and YouTube insieme Yin Yang on tick tock twitter mark at Mark Smelly Bell. Strength has never week this week. Does never straight catch y'all later.