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Tim Ferriss - The Must-Hear Interview
By the end of this episode of art of the hustle. Nearly ten thousand new Mauer variants will have launched. Now. A I can help protect your data from threats wherever it lives with IBM security. Let's put smart to work. Learn more at IBM dot com slash smart. You're listening to the art of the hustle the podcast that breaks down. How the world's most fascinating and successful. People have hustled their way to the top. I'm Jeff Rosenthal co founder of summit a thought leadership community and ideas festival and one of the great joys of my work is getting to meet and learn from the best and brightest across disciplines hearing their wisdom and understanding their ways of seeing and if you're gonna do a podcast, you might as well talk to the guy that knows the most about podcasts. Our guest today is the entrepeneurship Forrest Gump. Tim Ferriss is a world champion Tango dancer. Martial artists. Venture capitalists startup investor author and Jose tremendous podcast is him fair show. Please welcome my friend and big brother. Tim ferriss? Thanks for having me. It is a pleasure. You are a old, dear friend and mentor is that true. I would consider that true. Well, mentor part you can assess but I've tried my best to help away word young. Lad, you have you on his way to all on his way to world dominance of how kind how kind I thought, you know, why don't we start from the beginning? You know, you are now a boss, and you weren't always and we all started somewhere. So I was hoping you tell us a little bit about your childhood. I grew up as a townie on Long Island out of the very east end. There is a story place known for khakis and tennis and champagne flutes called the Hamptons, which if you're if you're not on that side of the tracks, usually more involves mullets, and or at least it did when I was growing up and and really having an ax to grind against the so-called city people who come out for Manhattan. So I grew up as a townie on the end of Long Island and was born premature had a lot of health problems. Really when I was younger. I was very very small growing up until about six grade says bullied very badly. That doesn't make me unique. I think it's very common but ended up I think retreating into books and academics. And so on because that was a safer place. I ended up focusing a lot on school because it was one of the few outlets that I had and then later on wrestling, I would say that my parents had a huge impact on reading in part because they said we always have a budget for books, and they did not have budget for many other things. I mean, I grew up eating TV dinners and chicken legs bought a discount. So onto the did not have money for say the new bike or the BB gun or fill in the blank. But they they would always tell me, and my brother if you really wanna book, we have a budget for books. Do you think that if you had an easier childhood that you would have been an entrepreneur, I don't know. This is one of this is one of those questions that is difficult to answer as far as being an entrepreneur or not. I think I was on one hand romanced by infomercials because I had horrible horrible insomnia for thirty plus years, and my mom's theory is that that's because I was in the ICU for so long as a preemie where the lights are on all night long. But I would stay up until God off lowers two three four in the morning, and what's on television in the early eighty s at that hour, you're talking infomercials of every possible. Type so became fascinated by these crazy shows we'd have the pocket fisherman and spray on hair and Tony Robbins and everything in between. I was really. Most interested in why on earth people would pick up the phone and by these things, and they seem to be working because there run constantly. And so I think that was that was part of what piqued my curiosity, and how things worked outside of the jobs that I saw around me, which were my friends parents who were fishermen and landscapers and plumbers, but I'm curious. So as you're growing up, I know that you raise money from friends and family and grandparents you've found your boarding school and got them to send you there. But how did you even idea that in the first place like I've never heard of a high school kid ever putting those things together for themselves. I was very lucky. There was one friend of mine at the time David he went to Saint Paul's teachers were trying to recommend that I look at other options outside of this high school, but I didn't know where to start and David came back. For a school vacation at one point because his parents were still in the area. And he told me all about Saint Paul's and Saint Paul sounded like this. Alien utopia in a way because they had ten different languages to choose from in terms of second languages. They had tiny class sizes. They had gigantic beautiful structures around campus and this incredible history with famous alumni, and it just it was so far outside of my life. Experience yet at the same time really alluring but extremely expensive. And fortunately, as you mentioned, you know, there are a handful of scholarships that were cobbled together. And also my extended family, especially my grandparents were willing to help Saint Paul's was really an inflection point because number one it made me really really work hard and the expectations of you were. Guy, and there were classes six days week you had ceded meal, meaning dead poet's society coat and tie multiple times per week chapel. Even though it's considered a nondenominational school people of all religions attend chapel with sign with announcements and. Singing. And so on almost every morning mandatory sports, some of your classes, I think it was called eighth period at the time. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but they'd end at like six thirty pm where you start at eight AM, and it just beat the living hell out of me. Is it prepared me perfectly for much would be perceived as very tough environments like Princeton, depending on the track that you take. So all of those things would not have been available to me would not have even come on my radar if my friend Dave had not been the one person from the entire high school. I knew to go to a boarding school who I happen to see at home on Long Island during school vacation, so lots and lots of serendipity, you know, so many things illustrated through that. But you know, a real entrepreneurial trait that's evidence to that story is like here's high school age, Tim and you saw an investment in yourself. And then you went, and you fundraise you've got your family, and your friends, and whatever scholarships were available that you feel a sense of pressure that you had to provide an ROI to your investors when you're doing this. Or is that something that came natural the you? I definitely felt a pressure not to disappoint. Everyone who had helped to make it a reality for sure. And I think that that is a good thing. I mean, it can it can anything in its extreme becomes Dobbs it in some way or many things that are helpful in excess become toxic. But. If you don't feel any karmic debt to anyone you're probably associated path. So I think that I did I did feel a responsibility to the people who had supported me. Yeah. I think I was very fortunate to have adults around me like a Reverend Richard Green leaf at Saint Pauls even who really believed in me and encouraged me to try things even I thought wouldn't work and a perfect example of that you take a place like Saint Paul's. Right. Saint Paul's is supposed to be at least if you were to ask them, you know, cultivating the leaders of tomorrow, and yet they still suffer from all sorts of problems like any any institution. One of them was that my guidance counselor. Told me I had no chance of getting into Princeton. And that I should revise my targets. Because the the format was come in with three lists of schools. You're A-List, which is your your reach schools, you'd really like to get into be the schools that you'd be happy to go to that. You think you can get into and then see your safety schools, and the guidance counselor encouraged me to take my safety schools and make them my ace schools because he said look you transferred. Here you didn't get x y and z credits to transfer you spend a year in Japan, none of that transferred. You are really setting yourself up for failure by even trying to apply to place like Princeton or Stanford. And what I realized after the fact so I only had one meeting with him because then, thankfully, I had Reverend greenleaf as adviser who said, actually, Tim you should apply. Like, what's the downside? Right. What's the worst that could happen? And this is something that's guided me, my whole life. This. What's the? I can happen. Why not try it? And I realized only after the fact that the guidance counselor is incentivized by what metric the percentage of his advises or her advises that get into their first choice school. So what is easier helping people to get into their first choice school which requires a lot of work or convincing those students to take safety's and turn them into their first choice schools the second. We're talking about you know, now is definitely rich people shit, right? Private schools Stanford. Princeton you grew up, you know, without wealth in that sense. So what does wealth you now? And what it means to you before you had it wealth meant to me early on. Freedom innocence because I saw how a scarcity of money. I think very often, and certainly the perceived scarcity of money on the part of my parents colored almost all of our decisions the things we could or could not do the things that caused emotions to run high in the house money tied into a lot of this or lack of money and for me. I never wanted to find myself or maybe a future family in that situation. So money to me meant certainly all the stuff that some young dude would think about fun toys and all of that. Right. Which is fine all the creature comforts and all that stuff. But it meant freedom to do what I wanted to do. And to spend my time on the things that I wanted to spend my time on I remember when we met you had written the four hour workweek, and before for our work week, you've written you you'd founded a company that you had worked a lot more than four hours a week in building and developing and growing, and you know, the four hour workweek was a very influential book on myself and my partners at summit fleas for once. And for all help us understand it the wax on wax off of doing less to accomplish more. The objective for everyone is not to work exactly for hours per week or less to maximize your power output. This is what relates to the eighty twenty principle. The eighty twenty principle for those who are not familiar in very simple terms would mean that in almost every activity in almost every environment. Let's just say whether that is a p garden, which is something that Ville frito paredo observed or contribution to GDP you will find that a minority of inputs or players produce the majority of the results or outputs. And that could mean, for instance, the reason it's called eighty twenty is that in general say twenty percent of your customers will produce eighty percent of your profit twenty percent of the exercises, you perform in a given training regimen are probably responsible for eighty percent of the performance improvements that you see in whatever sport you've chosen and so on and so forth. So. The sports nutrition company that I had founded and then later sold was massive number of hours in the beginning. Because you cannot do an eighty twenty analysis intil you thrown a lot against the wall to see what sticks. What works, and what doesn't work you have to have a data set to analyze and to create that data set, especially for people in the early stages of building their careers to know what you're good at what you're terrible at what your mediocre at. You have to throw a lot against the wall. And that requires some up front volume once you have the data, then you can parse it, and you can apply eighty twenty and then you can get to some you can produce some really outsized results from very honed surgical inputs. But you need you need that data in the beginning. And that generally requires trying a lot of different things, you mentioned throwing a lot of stuff at the wall up front, and I think that from the outside in if you know the derogatory way to give you credit for what you've accomplished is that you are a generation Lee significant marketer, which is also true. I learn a lot from you. How you market and how you think about it. And but the reality is is you are a full on scientists you test everything, and then you retest it. And then you double by and test it and you do that for your own use. You always have since I've known you whether it was for, you know, what is the best language learning platform and software. What's the best way to? Soom coffee, whatever you like your own living wire cutter. And I'm just curious. Why do you do that? And has always been a part of your nature the analysis and the testing and all of that really came about wrestling because one of the greatest competitive advantages you can have in amateur. Wrestling is the ability to cut weight and to ineffective dehydrate yourself, very quickly re hydrate yourself so that you can compete against people who are naturally much smaller than yourself. This is routine. It is part of the game. It's done in any way, class-based sport all the way up to the highest level. And in doing that, you've really if you want to do it effectively but aggressively you need to keep track of everything. So I have. Almost everywhere from age. I would say fifteen to thirty five I have almost every workout recorded that I've ever done. So if I want to perform like, I did in August of two thousand nine I can go back, and look it's preceding twelve weeks of training and just replicate that and with a fair degree of certainty, assuming I don't have any major injuries right now end up where I was then looking very similar minus the hair because there is gone forever. But the that type of analysis. It was really silent to physical performance until I realized wait a second. This type of testing can be applied to languages. It can be applied to investing in startups. It can be applied to all of these different areas of endeavour can be applied to split testing on the web. It's all the same thing. I mean, if you if we're looking at Karl Popper, we're looking at the scientific method. We're looking at all of this. It's it's a method of thinking. That is is definitely become my default. And it was just a matter of training myself, which anybody can do let's take a quick break. We'll be right back with Tim Ferriss. This message comes from art of the hustle sponsor IBM IBM is working with clients to put smart to work and bring progress to everyone together with IBM experts are putting smart to work to help. Save species increase crop yields and make progress not just for a few of us for all of us. Because while technology has never been smarter. Smart only matters when you put it to work where it matters. Let's put smart to work. Find out how at IBM dot com slash smart. Welcome back to the podcast. We are here with Tim Ferriss as a master marketer. And that's you know, my words not someone else's. I'm sure they have better superlatives. You have said in the past at one of the questions, you wish people ask more just simply what is marketing. So Tim is marketing for me, I can only speak for myself. I think marketing and sales are total are very different things. I think marketing is defining your market, very very precisely who are you trying to sell to if we're talking about a for profit business or you're selling an idea, you're selling donation bodily, you're selling charity water, you're selling whatever, it might be marketing, you're selling yourself to a spouse or a potential spouse who are you trying to reach who is it. What do what do they read? What are the eat? What do they like what do they dislike? What what did they watch on Netflix who is this person? Exactly. And if the and the the more specifically the more. The more detailed you can be in that description, the more effective and the more cost effective. All of your outreach is going to be whether it's on Tinder trying to find date or if you were trying to launch a book to become a number one year times bestseller. You have to think about this. And I would encourage you to think about it before you put together your product or service. It is not something that I try to think about after I have already created a product in a vacuum. So marketing for me is identifying your market, and there's a great article out there called one thousand true fans by Kevin Kelly, people can find it for free on K K dot org. And if if I could recommend only one article on marketing to anyone that is what I would recommend ten minute, read and. That is marketing marketing number one. I would also say that because of that or if if we operate off of that definition, you can test just about everything. And do so not necessarily only inside with say, your employees, but in many many different ways. So if I want to begin to experiment with writing a book, which is one of the scarier forms of. Content because at least as it exists right now, we're talking about traditional publishing you work on a book for one to three years, you publish it. And then you have all all of these pages all these dead trees walking around in the world that cannot be updated quickly kindle could be updated quickly, but that's a different story. And as a result this relatively fixed medium, you want to really have as you put it, you're branding your message on point. So what do you do? There are many options for testing that refining it over time. So the four hour workweek was in large part result of dozens of I think it would have been dozens of different guest lectures, given in high tech entrepreneurship at Princeton University. I had a chance to work with a live audience to see just like a comedian working on his or her material like what falls flat. What works. What what works part of the time. What always gets a good response? And what do I? Get feedback on what do they most talk about? What did they share with their friends? I could I could really capture all this could we take thousand dollars intestines. If that were constraint. Could we take one hundred dollars and test? This could be tested for free. I'm constantly polling people on Twitter. I'm constantly testing things on the podcast that might become a chapter in a future. Book I'm constantly doing this type of testing which may not be explicitly obvious as testing, but I think of low-cost expedient fast testing all the time. I will try to find a handful of things that most excite me. And then I will test those for some degree of viability, but I will not just throw my hands to the sky and rely on the wisdom of the crowd to come up with what I should do with my life that I've decided off the often results in in misfires. But I do I do trust trust the data, but recognized garbage in garbage out. So if your questions are bad, you can still trust the data and then end up in a really poor place. So you have to have the right question the right hypothesis the right set of things to test. I so you're you're really representing for cool nerds everywhere, and showcasing why guys like you're taking over the world and in minimum in lake yourself. I'm I wish I had more of those tendencies, and I've brought on and supplemented myself with partners who think in that way? And so I am an extrovert. I'm an extrovert an extrovert you. Or an extroverted introvert. I've seen you at dinner parties. You're the best marketer in the crowd. And yet, you're often, very quiet, and you're very reserved and you're very low key. And so I'm one for just from a lifestyle perspective. I think listeners would love to know why you choose to be low key when you could have celebrity you could have a higher, you know, I guess awareness of your personality in the public and the other is just like four on that sales piece. So you described marketing and how you define it. What advice do you have for people that are introverts in getting their product or ideas out in the world? I have not so much decided to be an introvert as figured out how to be an introvert and occasionally turn on extroversion to present. If that is the best vehicle say giving a tedtalk or getting on stage, something like that. There are people who are recharged. They have their batteries replenished by being in crowds. I am not one of them. I find it brutally exhausting. I have done affectively. No public. Speaking certainly very few paid public speaking engagements, which is how most authors make them at the vast majority of their income. I've affectively stopped doing all of it. Because I find it to depleting. And to your question about how introverts can get their products out to the world, if you build something truly awesome for a well-defined market. Ideally, something very small. I know that sounds funny and maybe. Contradict you to a lot of advice out there? But if you are if you were designing for the early adopters, I mean, let's not forget that the first iphone did not have copy paste function. Right. What a pain in the ass. Not everyone's going to buy that thing. So I didn't remember that yet design for the. For the true believers in a market that ideally, you understand in a product category where you would buy something perhaps it's where you're currently cobbling together a really crappy solution build that thing. And you do not need to be an extrovert to succeed as an entrepreneur at all. There are hundreds thousands of shrimp. Millions of examples of people who are highly introverted who are very very successful. As entrepreneurs, I mean, just go to Silicon Valley and observe the average level of social awkwardness and you'll be made a believer. It's like you do not need to be Steve Jobs to be a good entrepreneur at all. You can absolutely be an introvert focus on your superpowers and magnifying knows instead of fixing your weaknesses and be incredibly successful as an entrepreneur, and you have great pattern recognition for this stuff. And I actually think it's the same reason why you're such a great writer and why very good at determine. Meaning what companies will work at won't. You have a great ability to civilize, very complex ideas and bring them down to earth and boil them down to their essence. And I think people really appreciate that in your writing. And it's evidenced in your in your startup investing. What do you think are the traits, and what do you look for in companies and teams that you have ultimately invested in? I think it's Charlie Munger who's Warren Buffett's right hand partner who said something along the lines of. It's not it's amazing. How much success you can have not by trying to be smart. But by trying to be consistently not stupid, and I have really tried to only invest in companies whose products I could be a power user of products. I really really needed and wanted to use whether that's say stumbled upon which ultimately didn't work out. But then led to me advising Uber because same co-founder Garrett camp or Evernote, right, which may or may not turn out. Well, alternately for me. But as a product I still use every day to angel list, very niche, right, but a minute adviser. There you go down the list of companies task rabbit straight out of the four hour workweek. This was on my mind. So when it back when it was run, my errand met with Leah and then decided to become the first adviser to task grab it you go down the list, they all make sense. Right. I invested in Alibaba, wile, e baba just read the four hour workweek. I talk about drop shipping and manufacturing overseas. It's something that at the time I felt I understood and could possibly use and. I really tried very hard. I didn't always succeed, but to to not play games where I didn't have an unfair advantage and an unfair advantage doesn't have to be sophisticated an unfair advantage could be you are obsessed with fashion or in Tokyo, therefore, you are the best suited to be the CMO of a company that is importing or somehow bringing Japanese fashion ahead of the curve too early adopters in New York, Paris and London great. If that's you stick to where you have a competitive advantage an unfair advantage, and for me that was consumer tech where I could also add value by bringing in a lot of users quickly because of the audience I had built through the four hour workweek and then later subsequent books and podcasts. And so on. So what do I look for? I look for a product that I can be a power user of. I also looked for entrepreneurs who I could. I would look forward to having a drink with. Because what a lot of folks don't realize what these startups, and you certainly know this in most of the really notable success cases, you're looking at seven to twelve years and most of them are not gonna work out. So do you want to have a partner? Right. A friend at the very least and someone you may end up spending a lot of time with I mean on par with your significant other sometimes if they're really needy or going through a lot of tough times or a rapid growth. Phase. Are you willing to spend on and off seven to twelve years with this person? Assuming that most of them are not gonna work out and the answer should be. Yes. Otherwise, you're gonna have a really really miserable. Slog if things generally all start-up ideas on new creative, ideas are pretty bad ideas. Even the great ideas are bad ideas, and the sense, right? There's some misaligned, you know, connections. And there's some, you know, like, you don't have enough perspective or ways of seeing on the problem set yet. It'll like take the wards off of your bad idea or you're just basic idea and turning into a great idea. Do you have a process for that? Do you do you think about how you do that going forward and stay creative as you scale? I really am trying to ever more diligently, disqualify, ideas, giveaway ideas, and the ones that I just can't kill the ones that other people can't do plus that keep me excited enough that I just cannot get them out of my head. Those are the ones that I want to focus on the rest, I want to continue to raise the bar force. So that might disqualifier. Here's get more. And more strict in terms of creativity. I think that being very good about applying constraints and a lot of constraints to your thinking and your planning and you're testing, and you're launching is really important for creativity creativity. Does not mean freedom of all constraints. That's a disaster from what I can tell it means having in some cases, some false constraints. It's like, oh, you have infinite budget not saying you. But let's say you're Proctor and gamble. You're not gonna get good ideas that way. So it's like all right. Let's say using it's gonna take six months what if you had four weeks and this short budget the small budget. What would you do your probably gonna come up with some interesting ideas that way? So there are books like Edward de Bono lateral thinking there are tools like oblique strategies by Brian Eno and one of those would just a card deck where you can you can as a thought exercise at least apply constraints. I think creativity comes from constraints in part and also on tripped uninterrupted long. Blocks of time which you have to put in your calendar, and protect let's say three to four hour chunks in the same way that you would the most important conference call or meeting that you have that quarter. And the last thing I would come in on as released that question is I don't think about scaling very much. That word is very it represents. I think an an oftentimes admirable objective if you are playing the venture backed startup game, which can be very zero-some. And in some cases, winner take all but in many, many, many other contexts. I think scale or scaling is sometimes dangerous objective and can lead you astray because there's always going to be particularly if you're competitive someone many people who are willing to sacrifice their health their relationships their families to make as much money as possible well beyond any justification. They could provide and you do not want to compare yourself to those people and have that drive your desire to scale company or get to the next level. Those are phrases that I've seen really turned into landmines for people. So if you're trying to make money, you should have a good reason for it. What are you gonna use that money for it's not valuable by itself? It is it is used to provide psychological security, that's fine. And also to be exchanged for experiences and feelings at the end of the day, even if that's visa via a pool. Session. So now, there's a tool people can just look this up target monthly income in my last name. If they go on on the blog at Tim dot blog, and you could actually cost out what your ideal lifestyle looks like in monthly cost. And I encourage people to do that. They don't get to mesmerized by. Kind of cancerous uncontrolled growth for the sake of growth. So I wanna get stuck with you. I wanna know like how you how do you check yourself right now. Oh, man. I mean, we're all gonna be dust, and it's it's really the degree of self importance and sort of self centeredness with which I can look at the world. And I think anyone can look at the world is kind of staggering. When you think about it? I mean, we're a bunch of monkeys on a rock spinning around in the universe, and humans are just a footnote in history. If we look at the billions of years that preceded us, so it's very easy to take yourself and everything you're doing really fucking seriously. But. I think ultimately trying to leave things a little better than when you got here is is sufficient enough as an objective, and that could take the form of just one person that can take the form of making someone's day tomorrow better because you're in line at Starbucks, and you pay for the person behind you. It doesn't have to be fancy. So the man I want to applaud you for having a real theory of change, and that's not that common especially for those that are entrepreneurs spend all their time focusing on their craft. You also spend a good amount of time and in capital investing in studies at different universities. Could you tell us a little bit about the projects for funding and how they'll affect the future. It tends to be me scratching my own inch or a trying to address my own fears, in some cases. So for instance, UCSF and the Gazali lab, Adam Gazali, people should check him out. He's been on my podcast looking at how software can be designed to potentially reverse age related cognitive decline. I have Alzheimer's on both sides of my family terrifies me. And I think it should terrify people who have it. I funded studies and my fans of funded studies related to treatment resistant depression at Johns Hopkins, using solicitation, which are going very well at the moment. Or chronic anxiety anorexia obsessive compulsive disorder smoking addiction different types of addiction. These all may in fact, be variations of the same. Pattern of neurological activity in something called the default mode network hyperactivity in that region. One of the things that correlates to what people experiences ego, dissolution or ego death when using psychedelics is deactivation or or down regulation of the default mode network, which is an interrupt it allows people to experience what it is like temporarily in some cases to not have anorexia and to look at it as an observer to not have obsessive compulsive disorder or depression and to look at it as an observer. And that is oftentimes the reset that allows people to after two or three sessions, we're not talking about a daily drug. We're talking about two or three say four to six hour sessions, depending on the compound to have persistent effects six or twelve months later. I'm also very interested in ketamine in its use for PTSD with veterans and other people as well as depression for people interested, I just have to give short real short recommendation. You can supply. India main PTSD among other things through maps maps dot org. I would recommend people checking that out. And if you're interested in supporting this stuff on a higher level, I'm committing seven figures to this over the next few years. It was it was it was one of the first things I did when I had some some money off the table recently with startups. From long ago long long ago investing. You can you can check out Tim dot blog forward slash science. And I'm gathering people who are interested in supporting this kind of stuff because it's the most important thing that I'm focused on right now aside from the the health and wellbeing of my family and closest friends and myself perhaps forthcoming book the four hour trip. Perhaps perhaps a little Michael pollen. Did me a great service in saving me? The trouble. And rota wrote a fantastic book. I recommend it to to absolutely everybody. How to change your mind by Michael pollen? And if you want to our primer that covers a lot of the basis than you can listen to my conversation with them fantastic. So yeah, I want I want to first and foremost, just thank you. I mean, it's been fantastic having join us, and I really appreciate you being a part of the art of the hustle podcast and closing if we want to learn more your newsletter your podcast, we share with listeners where they can find you would love for people to check out my podcast. It's feta thirty three hundred plus million downloads. Nell, and you can find that at Tim dot blog forward slash podcasts. The Tim Ferriss show. So it's it's pretty much always on the the top couple of columns on on I tunes or anywhere else. And have some really great folks coming up Sam Harris PHD got Seth Godin the sea of WalMart. Doug MacMillan, but we also people like stand Groff who in his eighties. He's administered. At this point starting in the seventies about five thousand LSD assisted psychotherapy sessions Amin he is one of the godfathers of this entire field. And they'll be coming up soon. Get bad science because it will inform your thinking, even if you just read the read the chapters on how to study studies, my friend, Dr Peter Tia also has some articles on how to read studies, which will inform how you think about everything Peter at TI, and I would also save if you'd like to see what I am up to. I am constantly experimenting and testing stuff and finding weird things around the world. I sent out a newsletter every Friday, it's free super short. My my friends and fans asked for it just called five bullet Friday, and I sent out five bullets of cool things that I found documentaries apps new types of wine supplements whenever all sorts of weird stuff, and it was very nice of you to offer to feature podcast on your we've graciously up. I have a very very reasonable rate for you for the deal of the week. The. Yeah. I do not that. That's a good point. So I do not get paid for any of the bull's eye include occasional deal of the week that sponsored at the very end and the PS, but otherwise it's nothing paid. I've no skin in the game with any of this stuff, and you can find out about that. Tim Dopp log forward slash Friday. And that's that's pretty much it for me to say hi on Twitter at Farris EFI are. SS on Instagram posts, a pretty funny stuff. They are to it's at Tim Ferriss with two hours to us. Thank you, real real talk. You have been incredible friend and amazing mentor. And you've invested in us before it was cool. And you've, you know, brought a critique which is the hallmark of a true friend because they'll they'll help you grow. So thank you again. It's really been a pleasure and we'll see sin. My pleasure, man. This has been the art of the hustle a collaboration between we work, and I heart media, if you like to show or have thoughts on who we should interview next hit us up on Facebook or Twitter, if you really liked the show do us a favor and leave a serve you here or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm your host Jeff Rosenthal. If you've found something you love it's worth it's not stop ever keep going keep us Ling until next time.
Art of the Hustle
Aired 2 months ago 73:59
Ep. 37 | Brian Kelly (The Points Guy)
The ramble. Welcome to curious. Josh peck, start the show. Oh, shits and back at it again with the podcast. So much to report what a life what a week God we are well into the new year. How those resolutions doing guys? They hold it up. Are we seeing them through? No, maybe probably not why. Because resolutions are bullshit because. Yes, still you, and I'm still me, and I can't speak for you. And I don't mean a project or to like, you know, assume that I understand your plice, but I am a human being having a human experience. And does I feel as though that's relatable because I'm not that special and inevitably raw going through some sort of similar sort of life experience slash fuck ary and to me. Just resolutions. Don't work declarations anything with Asians at the end of it. It's just it's not for me because I'm just slow and steady, you know, if I can make like a slight sort of directional change like I'm talking millimeters per year. I am on a good path. You know, I heard someone say once that if you looked at like at a ship crossing the ocean in you like adjusted the coordinates just slightly like I dunno. I dunno lodge, itunes, and latitudes. I'm not an educated guy. But I, you know, I don't know what port and starboard side is what do I I was in the navy? But nevertheless, join me in this weird sort of analogy making, but yeah, but if you were just to adjust the coordinates just so lightly that ship overtime would end up at completely. Different spot. And you know, what at the end of the day. That's enough for me. Because these are the things I tell myself, what do you tell yourself to make yourself feel? Okay. Because we all have it. Right. There's all got to be, you know, there's there's gotta be just a collection of affirmations or phrases or advice. Friends have given us things that make a sleep better at night Jesus. Sorry, guys, I'm recording this in my car in a parking garage. And I literally think the world just came to an end now that was just some douchebag in a really loud car. I don't mean to judge. But I'm not that guy. I'll never understand that guy that needs to be heard while he's driving. They're actually pays more money to have the cartoon up to have it become louder. What see us? What are you trying to prove it just sounds? You should have the car tuned to actually make a sound as you drive, which is dad paying attention or. I have a small Pena's or I don't feel okay about my life. That's what that's what we that's what should be playing from your car. His it drives by waking up my baby and whatnot come on. Gone. But yeah, we all have the things that we tell ourselves that'll make us feel like we're we're just doing. Okay. You know, life's rejection is God's protection this too shall pass. I dunno. You know, it's easy. We like to move the we like to move the finish line to sort of compliment where wherever we are in life. I saw someone sent out. I think my mom sent me an Email the other day like, you know, Morgan Freeman didn't get his first huge acting role Tilas fifties and Tina Fey she didn't hit it tiller thirties in like all these people these really famous people who did it later in life. And I mean, I guess that's that's true. But you know, we can't ignore the people that killed at twenty. You know, the dicaprio's of the world, right? Some people are just killing it. And nearly h Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates. But I. But I don't know what else what else is going on in the world, you know, the government shutdown. That's cool. Who thought that could happen, right? Not me. I did the government just felt like seven eleven that. It was always open. You know, four AM if you need a red bull. There's one place to go the government in seven eleven, but apparently, it's not true. The government can shut down like a fucking Tower Records or a I don't know what else shuts down to a big box store with those like they should literally paste on the front of the White House has big yellow signs that say like clearance-sale blowout sale closing in eight days. Must get rid of everything lucky you right? 'cause I mean, God just Jesus people are suffering. The national parks have no people there. I mean, God if public restrooms are in bad enough in sort of public public spaces at this point there. There's just no maintenance going on. So that just sounds terrifying to go anywhere near those spots. And we never seem closer to sort of. Some sort of compromise or seni-. You know, it's like the lib tards versa, right wing hillbillies. And it just blew. We're just playing for different teams. Even though we're like all breathing the same air and living on the same land. Probably deep down have like is similar values for the most part. I mean, there's like the extreme left or right. But when you get a little closer to the center, we're all sort of just worried about putting food on the table. And hoping that our kids aren't assholes and trying to have like a vacation every now. And then I mean, it's quite simple. And yet just feels like we live on different planets. I mean, you know, listen, I'm a Jew from New York who grow up with a single mom living hip hop. So I'm sure you can imagine my fucking political affiliation. But, but I try try to understand, you know, like, I I I don't wanna be that over overly ideallic fucking Hollywood type who's who's you know, who thinks that everyone should think like me, and that I I've got the market cornered because I live like in a coastal city that pretty much has like totally adopted liberal ideas. I understand that like, Los Angeles. And New York isn't always a great representation of what the rest of the country is thinking, and I do I try to understand and and. And yet. It seems like we all want the same thing to a certain extent. We just have fundamentally different ways of getting there. We cannot agree on the best way. We all want to go to Disneyland. But somebody wants to take the streets and other people wanna take the freeway and some people just wanna take a fucking kamikaze plane fight right in God damn big thunder mountain. And it's disheartening, but it's reality in which we live, and maybe it was always this way. Maybe social media made it worse, or maybe social media just allows us to see it more. Clearly, but there have been very few people whom, you know, who's believe structure or or political pursuits or passions that I didn't agree with. And yet, it seems as though whenever I've sat down with these people, and we've had rational conversations, we all seem to want the same thing. And they're usually quite lovely. So I don't know. I don't have the answer. I don't think I can run for president. I'd probably have to go back to school, right? Because he in a bully. You know, you're gonna fucking vote for president who went to home school. I mean, listen, I realized we voted for a reality star. And I'm not hating, please. Don't take to the message boards. This is not like overtly political. But you know, I probably have to go back to school then become a lawyer or some something governmental it understand sort of the rules and whatnot. But I have thought about it. Give myself a twenty eight year runway a nice six year old president. I think is something you can get behind. I'm thirty two now. Go back to college law school passed the bar. That's eight years forty then you know, public service be a sort of a community leader of some sort. Try to really start giving back looking at the big picture being can do it by fifty. I don't know. But who knows who knows if I'd even be effective? You know, maybe I should try to get like good famous, and then you're more effective that way 'cause people listen more to you. And when you've got like, the reach of Arianna Guerande with one hundred million, plus Instagram followers. Maybe that's more effective. I, you know, I don't know. I don't know the answer. But. It. Sure does make for some good podcasts fodder 'em, right? Don. Today's show Brian Kelly, the point sky hard of M, T P G dot com. Do you go there? What do you like painful price for your plane tickets? Do you like flying like fucking economy where you have to like literally pay one hundred bucks to bring on like, a your iphone on the spirit airlines? I'm not throwing shade. But we've all been there. You know what? I mean, we literally have to pay for water, then ain't fun. But a guy like Brian Kelly is created website. She interrupted do that she like maximize your points, and like fly on those sick lay flat beds and literally shower on an airplane. What who doesn't want to do that? I know listen, we we've all flown back in the plane on south west, you know, boarding group of like M, and that's fine. You know, we could sum it. But sometimes. You want to treat yourself? Brian is a good buddy of mine. He's incredibly smart. He's grown quite the empire with the point sky, helping travellers to sort of travel better and smarter and to to utilize points, and and frequent flyer miles to really get the most bang for your buck. And he also has a podcast which you should listen to as well. But it was such a pleasure to sit down with my buddy. And hope you guys enjoy. Here's brian. Boom. Boom. Sounds good. Give me something. All right. One two three. I had chicken for lunch today is my sound good. Yeah. Better better than good. Huey are. Can you believe this? How lucky are we we're in? We're in the point sky mothership can't believe it or kennel. The kennel got like three dogs running around here being door -able today. They keep up morale around for sure I mean when you're having a bad day, and you see this little gremlin face looking at you like, I sometimes think is productivity being dashed by. But I think, you know, having these dogs, it's part of our culture. And it's got to bring a smile to your face. It is slightly up be immune to have like a pet friendly environment. Totally you know, I sold the site in two thousand twelve to a publicly traded company and part of my running it and is to have full control. And I like kind of feeling like we're a start up even though we're not really, you know, we do free lunch. Every day. We've got the. Khumbu Chen Cobra on tap and LaCroix endlessly supplied, but I just believe in treating my employees. Well, and they'll treat the employees the company will, and it seems to have worked you wouldn't stop pushing the LaCroix AME certain, I know and I'm not even sponsored by them. That's how much of a fan. I am. I think I'm just grasping on. I'm thirty five years old some kind of a millennial. On the thirty one. Yeah. Yeah. Fizzy water is fucking in. But I'm nervous. Now. All these reports keep coming out about it ruining your teeth. Really? Yeah. But the dangerous on soda drink. I mean, if LaCroix is my poison than mine. Yeah. Well, then take me down. You know, it's incredible to walk in here. And as I said to you, I've I've been a fan of the website for years, and there is this really personal touch. But then you come in here. And this is like mean, how many employees do you have? So in New York, we are right now, we have seven interns about thirty full-time. Then we've also got a team of six engineers in Pasadena, and a bunch of people that are corporate corporate office in Charlotte. And then we've got people like JT enter our number one writer, who's a global nomad. He sold all of his belongings and him and his wife travel around the world just choosing destinations as they go with their cat know, we've got people all around the world, right? You know, probably fifty different contributors. So it's really hard to pin. How many people, but you don't want to you know, thirty five new posts every day. So it's kind of like, we're full blown kind of magazine, but daily and only digital and could you have ever imagined that it would be at this size or the scale. Never, you know, I think it was all very quick when it started. You know, this started as a just a hobby. Never wanted to even monetize the site, and you came from the finance room. I was in HR I was doing recruiting for Morgan Stanley. So my job was to recruit all the computer, scientists out of MIT and Cornell and convince them to join Morgan Stanley instead of Google and Facebook, all the sexy tech company. So I basically, and I started that in August of seven and I had an unlimited expense account because Morgan Stanley's like it's impossible to sell. So I was going I was going to MIT, and I'd have a whole stand of twenty Xboxes on the table giving away to get because everyone competes for like the top computer science talent. So the MIT kids wanna next spot. You know, the so I was you know, all of a sudden, I'm putting all these expenses on my corporate AmEx? And you know, my travel and then during the recession all the loyalty companies were giving huge bonuses because business travel fell off a cliff. So all sudden, I'm raking in know million points year, which was like, you know, twenty thirty thousand dollars in extra compensation, right? That I wasn't getting in the form of a bonus. So points for me became, you know, the the shining part of my compensation, he's an kendo. And then I was like, okay, I'll take the, you know, travel assignment I lived in Montreal during the week for about a year and a half while we set up our office there, and I lived in the w hotel raking in tons and tons of star points. So it became a game to me, and I've always been good at points. But all my friends were like, you're the point sky. I would help them all use their points. And at a certain point. I was like, you know, what I could probably teach people thing or two about this you living at the w hotel. I feel like it's like a heroin addict living in a poppy you must. Have been in all your majesty there. I mean, I would come in. They knew me I was I think one of their top customers. They would upgrade me to the Wall Street or the, wow sweet or the extreme. Wow. Suite if you know, and then I would scratch their back by Email incorporate that it's my favorite hotel in the world. So you know, when your business traveling you're on the road so much you gotta you gotta play the game right business. It gets old. You know? So and lonely it lonely. Yeah. And you're when you think about it, you're giving so much your time your life, your your youth to accompany that, you know, it's okay. You should get points in and loyalty back, and no, it's not the company's property and in a very few companies will keep their employees points. But across the board when you travel for business, those points of yours and have a follow up question about that. But before now that you are have enough space between you and Morgan Stanley, are you willing to admit your most extravagant purchase on your your corporate card? You know, your expense account. It's been a year. So. I never did anything out of policy, but I certainly milking the system like all my co workers, they didn't realize the points thing. So I figured out how to you know, the expense system. I figured it out. It was a pain pain in the butt system to fill in your forms and upload them, and you'd have to fax a piece of paper. And but all my colleagues, Brian you're the best. Thank you so much for putting this thirty thousand dollars charge on your card, and I'm like sitting there thinking to myself. Like two hundred bucks for you and points. But, but you know, I would take there's all these different ways to earn points that there's restaurants in dining so airline dining programs. It's very simple. You just attach your credit card to a dining program. And then you get additional miles in addition to the expense. So I'd take all sixty of our interns to these random restaurants in Times Square and all the interns like Brian. Why do we keep going to this weird Brazilian restaurant? And it was it was a participating restaurant in the extra mileage program. So I was earning like five thousand extra miles per lunch, which you know, back then one hundred thousand miles round trip business class to Europe. Yeah. So you know, every each lunch was five percent of business class ticket. So I mean, it's all these little things that added up, and even though I didn't have a penny to my name. Really? I was still flying first class all around the world and d think that it was there a part of you in doing that? And we'll talk more about sort of your upbringing where you come from. But I imagine what I've heard from many people that have had the. Trajectory that you've had and I know a few people that started in the traditional finance world had dreams of something else. Not exactly sure why. And then built it to something credible. And kind of said God, I'm glad I had that experience. But I'm not sure I could have ever gone back. Was there parts of you in that super corporate ties financial world where you're like, I hope this isn't me for the rest of my life hundred percent. I mean, the biggest thing for me was so I, you know, I always looked at my boss's boss, and I would be like I don't want that job. They're miserable. And for me. So I worked in HR during oh seven two zero through June of eleven before the collapse. No it was. I was the height of. Yeah. So seven was ginning. And oh, it was terrible. Oh, nine terrible. Was he like zombies walking the holy? So I'm six foot seven, and even though I was in recruiting, and we still recruited college grads and tech. 'cause you can't just stop right? But we were firing people left. And right. We call them rips reductions in force, and even though I was in recruiting they would pull me in to be the person to. Would fire people all day through know reduction, and I'd be standing outside the door and a suit, and I would have to escort these people who had worked their whole lives at Morgan Stanley. I'd have to wait. They couldn't go back to their desk because it would cause a scene. So I'd have to escort them directly to the elevator. Then stand in the elevator with them and walk them out. And then through the turnstile, and you have any good stories anyone ever curse you out. People were I'm like, I was opened with people. I'm like, this sucks for me to you know. But yeah, I gotta do it. I'm not losing my job front by not doing it. But what crystallize it for me was I worked one day with this head managing director. I fired half of his team with him demoralizing day. And then the next day we would get these emails with a spreadsheet of just the people who are going the next day. And then the next day. I fired him it was so cut throat and the next day. I was walking him out. He thought he had made it through because I mean, it really just showed me I mean working in a super corporate world like they're they're not gonna have your best interests at heart right ever ever. And you know, it's just good. To know that that's not saying you can't have an amazing career big company. But for me, I just saw I saw a lot. But I also I learned a ton. And I think what's allowed me. There's a bunch of other bloggers in this space. What's allowed me to build this to where it is today is my experience at Morgan Stanley, especially since the companies that I deal with my advertisers to credit card companies are very similar to investment banks. Right. And how they're set up and legal teams and compliance and the complexities of getting something approved there were large corporation, you need to understand that. And I always did. And I think that gave me a huge advantage when it was me and a bunch of other bloggers and allowed me to kind of eclipse them over the years. Well, it sounds. It sounds kind of trite, but it's so true of like, you'll never know what your past experiences that you've accrued how in weird ways they've served you to land in this place one hundred percent and an huge example of that is so I had bought the points guy domain, April of oh nine I had the idea. I sat on it for a year because a lot of people, you know, self doubt a lot. People say, oh, come on the world doesn't need another travel blog, Brian. You know, you're an HR your, you know, and you get all that self doubt. But the reason why started it was because a former co worker she was like my work wife. I loved her. Her husband convinced me as I come to my house in Staten Island. And he was a WordPress developer. I didn't even know what WordPress was I had the current even today. So I he's like if you come to my house in Staten Island, set you up with your own website. And so that you can start blogging tomorrow like HTML, it's yeah, we're press is like, you know, the most blogs are a run on. And we're still a WordPress. Eight years later, you know, tons of were heavily modified. I've got my own WordPress developers now, but you know, so I went there, and it was a former co worker that I stayed in touch with and it changed my life because the next day. I started blogging, and I said it was June of two thousand ten and I said I'm going to blog every single day because the other travel bloggers in my space. We're only blog a couple times a week. And I remember going to their website clicking refreshing. I want more content. So as if I'm going to come in. I'm going to give this a New Yorkers perspective. I work on Wall Street. I'm not gonna write about stuff that people don't care about. I'm going to. And you know, I just started blogging every single day. And it was you know, that fall it really started to take off. And I remember going to my first cocktail party when someone was like, you're the point sky. And I remember being like it was like, wow. Like, you know, because behind the computer as a content creator you put stuff out there. And you know, yeah, it's your own inning. You don't realize you don't fans coming up, June the beginning and stuff. So that was like. Wow, people and I was making no money on it. But that was when I was like, I think I'm onto something. I love doing it. I would stay up 'til two in the morning, even when I had to work the next day to make sure I got my blog post out, and it really is at reader feedback to this day. Still keeps me really excited about about keeping the blog going. It's it's funny too. And it's sort of a douche equality of mind. But at this point because I've gotten Drake and Josh for so long since I was like fourteen when. If someone comes up to me, I'm appreciative. Of course. I'm always like. Okay. Cool. But like if someone's like love the pod cash or like loved some like random art house movie did years ago. I'm like can we just take him because I frigging appreciate that. But no, I know what it means to to all of a sudden be validated by the outside population for people to be interacting with this thing that for the most part everything we do for people like us lives in our minds until we finally put it out there. And you self doubt yourself because I would always say, well, I'm not and truly. I'm not the smartest person in the points world. I'm not there's plenty of way, an actually many people who work here today. I don't even write that much anymore. I still have very strong editorial control. And you know, my talent is really in hiring smarter people than me. And that's like any any good businesses knowing that I in the beginning. I wasn't big with United. I it was a huge knowledge gap for me. But I still had to cover it. And I would always think, oh, you know, is this good enough or am? I an ex. But enough, and especially starting to go on TV, and I would sit there and be I would nearly think before going on live TV because I'd be like what if I come off the stupid right yourself, but you turn a corner, and for me, it was like paying to get media training, which I didn't think I needed. But I went for like two days at this company and Chicago and they brought me through how to. The purpose of an interview on TV, as you know, if you're going on a free contributor is you gotta get your point across like, you got an you. Also, it's okay to bring it back to you. And understanding. The purpose. And how to even if you don't know the answer to a question, you could always it back to something you do know so share. That's this whole thing has been a huge learning thing for me, but mostly about self confidence. And that I think we doubt ourselves the most that we can't do something or someone's better someone's funnier someone's better looking, but oh, please therapy session. I mean, that's a major topic. And look you hear that as a through line with any great entrepreneur is attained some things is is it's like, it's a mixture of -bility, and insight and smarts and also like this weird blinders mentality and ability in which to turn off that self doubt. The most of us are fucking governed by and you know, in the internet trolls are a big thing. And in the beginning. They would would make me nauseous, I actually so stressed out and nasty thing people always say nasty things. And it was so funny. A lot of my writers. Now, it's fun. I'm coaching them through the nasty comments will always be there. But you know, taking feedback is hugely. And when we must up my my biggest bog post of all time got a million views and ours was when I called the United Airlines dragging off the plane that doctor Dow I came into this office. And I read the reports I'm like, oh that guy the passenger. I kind of blame the passenger. I was like, you know, in the captain tells you to get off you just gotta get off look into all the details. And I totally got it wrong and the pitchfork mafia on Twitter came after me, and I totally realize, oh, wait a minute. Let me and then I looked into the details. And it's like no it wasn't the simple like they asked him to get off. And he said, no. But I wrote a blog post right away just saying I got it wrong. You know, I was so wrong. Because this is actually pro pro passing your that's we're not paid by airlines. We don't take a sent from the airlines from the hotels. We are pro consumer like we're pro traveler, so it was just a weird thing for me. I'm like, I really got that wrong, but calling it out and calling myself out. People, you know, then I turn that into something. That was good people. I think especially this was twenty sixteen and there's an inability I think in our politics and press to admit mistakes. And I think people found that refreshing that I just was you know, what I was totally freaking wrong zero ways about it. And. Humanizes, and I think we people inherently appreciate that too. Because we do live in an age of like, I'm right? I know I'm right in the immediate and people are so staunch on their believes that a dig in and no matter what. Yeah. And people I mean is even up to the highest leadership in the land. It's like people's inability in which to ever admit the slightest misstep. And by the way, what happened to that? Doctor was completely awful. But however couple millions. He got for that that was a worthwhile experience. You haven't heard a peep out of him. So I'm pretty sure that that he that he did pretty well. And so we're where are you from? So I was I was born in Long Island. And then when I was on second, no worries take your time. They can come in. Okay. Perfect. So I was born. So I was born in Long Island part. I was born in manhasset. And then grew up in blue point like next to save Ville way out, and I don't, you know, I I'm a New Yorker native and from the city, and I have friends, and so I knew so many people from Long Island, and no matter what I'll be like what part and they'll bring up some funding on I have never heard. So so I, but I grew up mostly outside of Philly. So I grew up out doylestown, the Philly suburbs. And then went to college in Pittsburgh and the move right away. I always knew New York was where I was meant to be. I grew up in suburbia, and I was like strip malls. And chain restaurants. I love them. But I'm like this life isn't for me. I want to go to the big city. Did you do any traveling as a kid not really? I mean, I learned about points in the nineties. So my dad got a job at a start up, and I started booking all of his travel 'cause I was like a computer with when I was twelve and one day. He's like we have all these frequent flyer miles. So I use them to book our family to the Caribbean. So every every winter we would spend a week in Cayman Islands or betas for free on my dad's point. So it sucked that he like missed my basketball games and birthdays because he had to travel a lot, but we turned his points into you know, this amazing family bonding trip once a year. Oh, she. Oh, she got another ad. So let's get crazy. Let's hear it because this podcast has advertisements because we're doing. Well, no matter what you've heard. Anyway, what would it look like if we all listened more listening to audio books inspires us, it motivates as dare I say even brings us closer. And there's no better place to listen than audible, you can get your first audio book for free along with two selected audible original, titles and exclusive fitness programs when you start of thirty day trial. I love audible, I love being able to listen and learn while I'm working out or driving or what have you? I recently listened to David Goggin new book and the man is just so much tougher and just. He's he's just a better person than me. But it gives me a goal and something to work for it. And you know, what that is awesome. So you can get started with thirty day trial. Just go to audible dot com slash curious or takes curious to five hundred five hundred and listen for a change. That's audible dot com slash curious or Tex curious to five hundred five hundred I always use this example. And I I love Howard Stern and I- interestingly, I just interviewed a Vincent enough Rio who echoed the same experience, whereas Howard Stern's father was in radio. And so he's of course, when the radio because it was a way to be heard and deny Fritos father was in the arts, and he wanted to be an actor. Do you find that weirdly, you've mirrored? Your father's holding. Call him the original point sky. So his name is also Brian Kelly. He's third son of three boys and a girl. I'm the third son of three boys and a girl, I realize Irish love it. My wife. He's six three. I'm six seven. I him as a kid. And yet when I look at it. Now, it makes sense. Like, he was you know, I I learned all I know about points when I was twelve year old in the nineties like how random is that? And now, it's my career. So he set me up for this amazing. And he had no idea, but he gave me really sage advice. He when I when I started the blog, I tried that my business model was totally different. It was people would pay me fifty bucks. And I would tell them how to use your points. Right. So I would blog to get clients that I would then charge fifty dollars. So I was making like a couple hundred thousand bucks a month. But it was running this like really half ass travel agency on this is so yeah. Yeah. And my dad's like, dude, you gotta learn how to make money in your sleep and come on dad, and he's like you gotta get advertising and build an audience instead of teaching one person how to use your points. What about teaching millions? And I was like dad, you're crazy. What are you know, he's informa- suitable sales or in the healthcare industry? And but it's so totally right. Totally guided me into points in the nineties and really push me to monetize a different way. And he's not in digital publishing. So I think that's one tip. You can get amazing advice a lot of times we're so myopic. And let me go to the most successful CEO of a business to give me the business advice, I need. But in fact, some of the best advice, you can get is all around you. And it's opening your mind up in realizing and just like that Oko worker that I worked with she changed my life. I would not have started the blog. I was I'm a lazy procrastinator deep down. And I had you know, I was crippled with choice is an LLC or an S Corp. And you know, you can bog yourself down and all the details. And you know, random people can totally change your life. So always always keep your the people. You think are going to get you to the next level or often not they're all around you. Yeah. I mean, inevitably you don't know who you're apostles will be until you've been able to sort of the to testify that they've been you've been through the tribulation, and you're in the trial, and you're able to sort of think back and incorporate this old advice that was given to you. And so what was the what was the moment of no return? When did you leave the big fancy expense account and say, I'm going out on my own? So it was so I started the blog June of two thousand ten I had about fifteen twenty thousand monthly readers by that fall. I had written a couple of deals that kind of went viral, but it's still a relatively small blog following. But the turning point was that spring, a friend of mine from college. He kept asking to hang out. And I thought he wanted to date with me, and I wasn't interested. And I kept putting them off for like months and finally like, Brian, you are an idiot. He's like you're blogging about credit cards, and did, you know, I work for a company in affiliate marketing. I'd no idea. What that was it sounded spammy to me. Yeah. What is that affiliate marketing is simply the sending leads through through your website fashion bloggers? If you click a link to buy a pair of jeans, they get a cut, right? It's chose on link. It's hey, use my Uber link and I get credit at marketing. Right. Well, I do that. So I was like what are you talking? He's like meet me for a drink. And he got me he told me all about it. Basically goes blogging on a gold mine. I was blogging about credit cards direct Lincoln to American Express dot com. Chase dot com. That's the best for my reader. And he's like the same exact offer in link. I'll give you a link through our system and you'll get one hundred dollars a credit card, and I was like, wait a minute. I've got like thirty thousand readers at this point. And even if a couple get one hundred dollars credit. Card not bad ten of them thousand bucks, and I've got thirty thousand readers money, and it pretty much went that way the first month. I mean, five grand by simply just writing the same stuff. I was reading anyway, but just replacing it with the link, and then that April was the day, my life change was the New York Times set Koogle the frugal traveler he had emailed me. And it went into my spam. Email box for six weeks. I was randomly going through my spam box. And I say, oh, my God, the New York Times, and I hadn't really had much. No national press at that point. And he's like you have heard about you points guy. But I don't think points are good for frugal travellers budget, travellers. And I'm like, oh, you have no idea. So I emailed them met with them for three hours changed the way. He thought about points. He booked a trip that day that saved them two thousand dollars, and he was just blown away total points attic. So he ended up writing this amazing story at my first big piece about the point sky on the same day that there was this one hundred thousand point offer on this chase British Airways card way before the hundred thousand chase sapphire this. Twenty eleven and basically, so I had the links and Mike content. I wrote this is why the chase British Airways card never use an British Airways. All these amazing ways. He's British Airways. I mean, you could get forty free flights. It was crazy. But I basically broke it down for consumers like this is how you do it step by step picture by picture and bam. The post went viral and the same day that offer went live the New York Times article hit so my traffic just shoot through the roof. Meanwhile, I see the clicks. Because that's how you judge. I only get paid. If someone gets approved for credit cards. You never know really what pay is going to be until the credit card company got hope that credit scores and hundred and above so, but meanwhile, I'm sitting there my -partment I'd taken off work. So I was like, I know this is going to be huge. And and then the New York Times article hits and my traffic through the roof in our click clicks too that credit card thousand two thousand and I'm like starting to do the math, and I'm like only two percent of these convert like, it became crazy huge. And that day, I think I cleared one. Thousand dollars and actual sales. Once they started coming in the next couple of days, and I'm like, oh my God. Oh year. Like, I quit. Granted it was like the crazy thing is there was like a three month delay until you actually see that money. So I actually quit my job that day. My mom was like are you insane? Like, this is funny money. It's not real, you know in accordance system. I'm like, but yeah, mom, it's like it's like legit company. It's amex. Like chase yet. It looks coming. They loaned me. Ten grand? My mom was like what are you going to do about health benefits? And I'm like rich mom pay for don't worry that loan me ten thousand dollars because I don't know the checks actually gonna clear, but lo and behold, I quit June of one year from the day of my first blog post, and I was traveling later that month in Spain. And I remember I'll never forget the day. The chase alert came that the direct deposit came that the money was real. It's real sat there staring at my phone had never, you know, I made six seventy thousand a year working at Morgan Stanley, hustling my ass off and. And I started to make six figures a month. And it was just like here we go. So then I started hiring some people to help me 'cause I couldn't do it all myself, but and then in may of two thousand twelve a company came along and bought it for so it's been a wild wild ride. And I do crazy things. I still feel like we're just getting started like there's so much more to do it till funny to like 'cause I started making money from social media in in two thousand fourteen until then I had been sort of at the mercy of this crazy business you have no control over. And if the casting directors and a bad mood that day, you might be best suited for the role. But you ain't get Knicks. They don't like. Because there was too much traffic on the four. Oh, five Tate wasn't fucking. Right. And and I remember we were I had become pretty big on vine and social media. This company reached out over Email, and they said we're going to be six thousand dollars to put up this video you can delete it in a week it six seconds. And that's it. It'll be in your pay pal account. The moment, you pose. And it was such a leap from me. Because I'm like, I don't even have a p pal. I don't know what that is. And I'm like, this sounds every like all they would have had to include was I'm a Nigerian prince. I would have been like this is fake. But won't be hold them. Like, well, I'll post it. And if they don't pay me, you know, I'll delete it right away. And I saw that pay pal hit. And I it was a whole new world. It was a whole new world. I mean, that's what I you. You hit it right on the head. But the democratization of fame and influence out of the hands of casting directors can't tell you how many times I've gone the opposite. I originally I thought I have to get a TV show. That's because that's how you do it. Most people get a TV show get picked up and for me. I was ready making money. And then I would like to take all that time away to do a show for a net. So, but I kept telling myself in the beginning, that's the way to do it. So I'm not rep by UTA. And I remember going into UTA's offices in twenty twelve and I'm like, I'm making a lot of money, and they're like, well, we don't really get what you're doing. We don't, you know, you're not the typical actor. How are we going to monetize you, and I remember getting rejected? I was making money, but I still felt like I had to be accepted into having a manager. Tell me how to manage my business. Well, I ended up creating my own business managing it. And people were were always like one day, you might be the editor in chief of travel and leisure. You know, what I just hired the head of social media from travel leisure the head of video. You couldn't pay me. We have more reach now not to brag. But kind Brad? Brad you. It's all these people, you know, in the traditional world that tried to put you into a box. And I think that so regatta thrive off of creating your own. It's nervous. That's inbetween space. You know, no one has ever done really what I've done. I don't have a lot of contemporaries and peers, there's certainly bloggers out there. But no one really in this points credit card world, who's kind of taken a business to where it is. So on the same hand that it's exciting and new every day, you have the ability to shift where your business is going to go. But on the other hand, it's really frightening. It's kind of nice to sit around the water cooler with like appear and be like, you know. Ditch about what's going on at work. And, you know, especially when you're entrepreneur and have all employees to take care of the stress starts to. But I wouldn't I wouldn't give it up for anything. Exactly where I'm supposed to be feeling. I think that's so right. And I I to an end because we grew up in and we talked about your thirty five and thirty one. So we're sort of like the tail end of what would be qualified as as a millennial. You're pretty firm Molyneaux. Yeah. And then, but then like what are people under twenty five jen's e I think that's what they call it. That's who knows. But I know what you mean. Because especially for me, right? I was so indoctrinated with traditional TV and movies. And then there was a a renaissance over the last couple years where it said, we'll no that's not that's not the way anymore with Netflix. And social media would have you like people aren't as incentivized to go to the movies. And if they do they just wanna see massive tent poles. Superhero movies that I can't get in. But you know, inevitably I two it's like it's reconciling that old story that ego. That says, oh, I've got a fit into their standard or accepting the fact that you've trailblazer your, own course. And I think that's everything at school. No them in this modern soc- this economy that we're in and we're that can be possible. I mean, I look around this office, and like it all really this sat in my brain for year caged in by self doubt. And it's thank God. I opened up that box and slowly over time, it's grown and. But yeah, I mean, I just think of so many people who have the same story, and to be honest, you know, America's in an interesting place. I think in terms of politics, but America's an amazing country where this type of stuff happens with way, more regularity than any other country, and it is such a breeding ground for creativity and new platforms and being in the media space now and just looking ahead at how even within the last eighteen months Facebook for my business and how we were so focused on building up our Facebook likes and then at a nowhere. Now, it's private Facebook group is really where a ton of actions coming from, you know, new new platforms. The website flip board, which is an amazing aggregate. Or of news is one of our top traffic drivers all within the last four months. Now, we get hundreds of thousands of new readers because people are aggregating news on flip board, and it curates the news for people and just so happens that a lot of people want the the point sky post, so we're reaching new audiences and and digital media is in a really. Interesting place, a lot of websites don't know how to make money and traditional media print magazines or in a weird place by spiral innovative people. There are so many ways to make money and sometimes it might put you out of your comfort zone. And but the ability to do that. I think is amazing. Are you constantly is it like a daily thing where you're investigating new places? Like like, the flip book, you're saying like different places where you can best utilize. Your your imprint absolutely, yeah. Flip channels, you know, Pinterest. We've haven't paid attention to for a long time. It's almost as so many channels like for we're huge with business travelers, but we have no linked in presence. I have my own linked in profile from preteen days that I think I had an internal my social media team Xuzhou up one day a couple of years ago, and I have more requests and I can handle, but like that's a huge opportunity sitting right in front of my face podcasting. I had it on my to do this for years. I mean, there's so much to talk about in travel, and there's not. Tons of travel podcasts and points in a podcast will actually teach you how to use points. I think really a bunch of travel Puckett. So now, it's it's almost overwhelming the different core for answering questions is an amazing resource, and there's a huge gap therefore travel experts and they've asked me to come on. But I'm like so many hours in the day. You know, do you want to be really good at certain platforms? Right, obviously the blog the site. We kill. I'm so focused on having talent in the best writers at distributing that information, then becomes a challenge. But it's, you know, it's it's a great problem to have did you on your way to creating this thing? Did you cite any of those? I mean, like not Tony Robbins. But like any of those CEO whisper types read any of those books or the four hour workweek or any of those I. You know, I I respect I met Tony Robbins once offset at a TV thing. And he was shocked. He's really he's like six five and I'm six seven. So I was kind of. Yeah. You. No, I respect that people. Get a lot of inspiration from them. You know, my inspiration doesn't really come from the business world. I'd worked with Nobel peace prize winners. So I'm a huge war person. I don't believe I as you travel. You really wore screws up everything is the root cause of so many issues from poverty public health crises. So I I work I have the ability to through this organization called peace gem work with fourteen of the world's most incredible Nobel peace prize winners Desmond Tutu, the Dalai Lama Laima Bowie. These really powerful women who literally have helped end civil wars. Like, so I draw strength from the stories of these people who truly have changed the world and incredibly meaningful ways. And it really not to put down my experience. But it really puts things in perspective. And I think it's very important to surround yourself, especially I went from having no money to a lot of money, surround yourself with people who've done way bigger things in you. And that's so. True in that you are the some of the people you hang out with. And if I went through a phase of success in the beginning of hanging out with people who wanted to use me for the wrong reasons, and it, you know, I think a lot of people experienced success. We'll have that situation. But now I look to heroes, right? And even though I'll never help into civil war. And I'll never go through the struggles say have I every time. I listen to every word they say, and I shifted into my own life because. So. Yeah. So it's good. I mean, that's and that's all age old just could spirituality right is somehow finding something bigger than just when we get bogged down in our and I firmly so philanthropies, huge part of the point sky. We'd donate a lot of money in our time and millions of our frequent flyer miles to different organizations, and I there is a direct correlation between the more we started to give back as a company and get our employees engaged and giving back the more the businesses grown. So I would encourage anyone out there, especially if people who achieve success relatively quickly. Immediately. Immerse yourself in something that is way above you. Right. Because the pressure of success can get to you very quickly, and monetary wealth can be you know, it's an intact state. Yeah. It can be intoxicating. But it can throw totally throw you off. And you know, and what I'll say about philanthropies. It doesn't have to be going to, you know, necessarily a food shelter. And doing something you really hate doing. But you do it to give back like you can find things that are incredibly meaningful. Like, I go on these trips. I go to Ghana six times been seven times in the last couple of years. We've this huge network of kids that were working with through peace jam. I learned more from these kids. I've so much I've family there. Now, they made me a chief in development chief of Odom assay Crowe, which was totally surreal to me as a way of saying. Thank you, and it has expanded my life, and it's it's Joyal you can look forward to doing it. So I think it kind of like entrepreneurship, they'll finding the charity or I hate even saying the word charity finding the organization to give back where the people to work with is very difficult. But once you find what you really have a passion for doing. It's you know, it's enrich your life in ways that then more than any paycheck can. Was some babies. We just got a quick advertisement. And then we're going to get back to this like incredible conversation. I'm having a great time. Aren't you? Cool. Let's do it Robin Hood. Yeah. It's an investing app that let you buy and sell stocks ETF S's options and cryptos all commission free. And you know, what they strive? What are they shot for to make financial services work for everyone? Not just the wealthy those wealthy. Knuckleheads. They've got known intimidating ways for stock market newcomers to invest for the first time with true confidence. And you know, other brokerages charge up to ten dollars for every trade, but Robin Hood doesn't charge commission. Yeah. No commission fees trade stocks and keep all of your profits. Plus, it's easy to understand. They've got like charts and market data that super simple place to trade in just four taps on your smartphone. And you can learn how to invest as. As you build your portfolio. So Robin Hood is giving listeners a free stock like apple Ford or sprint to help. Build your portfolio. Sign up at curious dot, Robin, Hood dot com. That's curious dot robinhood dot com. What what part of the world have you been to and that where you have seen affected by by something like war or what have you or bad diplomacy rear? Like god. Like, this is you know, we live here sort of without an awareness of what our actions the result of I'm huge scuba diver. I love I mean, if I can encourage people to a lot of people say, oh, I'm nervous and scuba diving, and breathing it is you definitely do want to take a course to do it. But you know, most of the world is covered in water. So if you never really explore the underwater world and and granted scuba diving. You're only gonna go down one hundred feet. So you're not even going to really c but experiencing the underwater world is like nothing spiritual meditate at one with nature, you know, sharks are not our enemy realized sharks. Don't give a crap about people. I don't know about all that. That's not how they portrayed on sharply. Jesus problem with our media. Yeah. I tell you. But anyway, so throughout southeast Asia. There's especially in Bali so much trash and a lot of misinformation a lot of fishermen used dynamite on reefs to kill fish, which then inadvertently destroys entire ecosystems. And it's so the overfishing of areas it really screws the entire ecosystem like that to me. That's everywhere. I mean, that's in the United States as a country, we produce tons and tons of trash, so I think environmentally as I travel. You realize like the world is all interconnected one world. We're all sharing the same air and. So yeah, that's what I would say is. I mean, there's I'm just an optimist. So you can go a lot of different places and. People will criticize our charity work in that. Okay. Because we're not feeding people that, you know, educating kids Nobel peace prize, when it's not substantial enough, you know, you're not putting a roof over people's head or getting them clean water. But. You can always think things are are worse somewhere or better somewhere. But it's one of those people doing and you're playing team. We'll take the time to criticize me about doing enough or not enough charity as yeah. Garage, very rich. You know? And so in starting the company what was there can you point out? Maybe one moment in particular, where you felt like it was a real sort of crossroads moment or a time in which you were truly tested, and you came through it, you know, for for the better. Well, the big thing was hiring other writers to right under my name. Right. This the site was mine it was and it was, you know, management wanna one to expand your business. You're always going to have to hire other people. Right. You have to hire good people that you trust. And I made a ton of mistakes. It's funny because I came from HR and recruitment. And I think I use a lot of those skills. But a lot of you know, big time mistakes I hired. Too few people. I think that my biggest thing is over time. I was burning my employees out left and right. And I think trying to do too much myself. I was burnt out for a while. Especially after I sold the company, it was very difficult to you know. Reconcile that. I was now part of this publicly traded I had left, right? And we're gonna Stanley to pursue this freedom. And now the part of this big. But when you're getting acquired, they come in and everything right diligence every single dollar you've ever spend. They talked to all your clients. I try to sniff for any bullshit that you're hiding, and you know, for me, it was very quick. It was only six six week turnaround from the time they said, they wanna by the time we close, but I wasn't sleeping was probably drinking a little bit too much to like, you know, that's the easiest way a lot of times. You don't even realize it. But you know, let's meet for martinis and they need their. Yeah. For sure especially when travelling now, I mean, I still a struggle to as much as I love traveling. It's also the one thing that know can really screw with your body and relationships, and it's hard to date people when you're okay, great. I'll see you in four weeks when I'm back, you know. So it's, you know, people may see my life on Instagram and first class and amazing. We're gonna you know, amazing vacations and stuff, but like any story on social media. There's there's a lot more that goes into it. You know, of course, I'm not going to air on my laundry. Well, feel free what we're hearing there. But but that brings me to my next question because to be honest, and and I love following you. And I'm not one of those people that watches your Instagram, and tease you on these flights because I'm such a neurotic Jewish myself. Like, I get I project myself. I put myself in your shoes as fabulous literally with your shower test in Cancun that was hysteric come on. I feel like I'm part of the fan. But I know for me what traveling you know, that I get uncomfortable and it's hard to be away and out of my comfort zone whatnot. So I'm fascinated. Like does it get lonely art? You know, are there moments where you're like is this really everything it's cracked up to be short. I look enough. Mabel, I'm sorry. How many days you gone a year? I it's a great people. And I think I traveled depends on the year. But I travel at least probably around four months three to four months, maybe a little bit less now that, but you know, it's like June of this year. I was gone for three weeks across Europe and Africa, you know, twenty three days away was excellent over three weeks. I mean, it's long. It's like I have a dog. I have this. It's you know, it's. It definitely gets it can get lonely. But it's also so I mean, I really do pinch myself every day that this is the life. I get to live, and I'm not gonna you know, it is what it is kind of you. But, you know, balances important in and when you realize, okay, it gets really old sleeping and hotel. Then there is no hotel bed in the world and the nicest suite of the craziest do pie Dubai penthouse. That's nicer than my bed at home. Right. Course. So but that being said, I'm a nomad deep down like when you came in today, I'm booking a trip to pull out a goes scuba diving over an I love that for me booking travel and using points. It's like a crossword puzzle, you know, and for people who don't know about points. I mean to sit down and got all these different points. And how can I fly the best flights? You know, you you start researching the planes for maximum comfort, and you know, when you complete a trip, and you can use it on points in first class for literally hundred dollars. For flights that are ten thousand dollars. That's I still get a rush from that. So and you book your travel now, you don't have well, my my sister. And Adam is basically the point sky. I'll be he'll I don't call airlines. You know, he'll do all the nitty gritty share it takes time. But, but no, I also get on the computer I need to be up to speed like and that was a hard thing because I've coins in my Bank account. I don't necessarily have to use points, but on principle. No, I use points because who wants to burn money, right? And to be true to the brands like the full price guy. So I will splurge on some readers will call me out and be like okay that was a really expensive hotel. And I like the nice things in life. I'm not gonna lie and when I can get free flights. I'm going to I'm going to use my money to to have the best experiences and rent a boat with friends and go diving and stuff. So I'm definitely not a budget traveler, but I still thrive on getting an amazing deal too. You can because I follow a few of the of the nomads as you said, the professional nomads, could you? Distill down a common trait among solve them. Because like, I watch you. And and this is no BS like, I can see you have a full good like you seem happy and really full. But some of these guys I followed they seem like they live in an airport, and they and four months is kids stuff to them like they'd be gone eleven and a half months year, if they could well, that's the thing. I'm not I mean, I do think a lot of people are running away from something and some people not everyone is running away from something. But you can it's I know a lot of people a lot of the nomads. And a lot of them are kind of it's almost like an addiction like once you start traveling. And then you lose your friends at home kind of because you're not there, then participate you just keep going with it. And I think there is a drug to that stimulation. The travel is a stimulant, right? Like, the new, you know, visually travel stimulates all your senses. So just to keep going is easier than the stop, right? So. So. I do think a lot of the nomads are happy. But almost all of them want to stop at a certain point. And I saw early on. I mean and the four months that I travel it's interspersed, right? I'm I'm here in New York. I have a huge family spend time with them. But but yeah, it's it's I'm I have to have a trip book. And I know there's a there must be genetic. Jinx. I know a lot of people that are like getting Zion. If there's not a trip on the books like, it's right. And you spoke about this recently fearful moments while flying scary turbulence momentary, you're talking to God. There's only been two one was before. I started the blog. I was flying from Toronto to LaGuardia in January on a dark. Stormy night and bumping bumping up and down. You could hear the toilet seat. Gump opponent bemoan, boom, everyone's kind of white knuckling. And then we had two aborted landings at LaGuardia which is on the water. Couldn't even see the ground kicker was sitting next to an Air Canada pilot who goes off duty, obviously. And he goes out this pilot is no idea what he's doing right now. We're flying with our flaps up when they should be down. And I'm just like it's the first time in my life was I'm dying. I'm like I'd never had the feeling of I'm actually going to die to aboard land. I mean drenched in sweat, and then another one was a couple years ago. I was flying from the Hamptons on a seaplane because I have a house in the Hamptons and so much traffic. So there's this new service that can helicopter a sea plane. There's a huge storm clouds rolling into Manhattan, and my friends like don't get on the plane, and I was cocky, and I was like never put me on a plane if it was dangerous, and it's beautiful in Long Island. And as we come up, we see the statue of liberty. And there's this monster rain cloud, and we go into and just start popping up and down. I had my dog in my arms, and he's such a bad ass flyer. He was actually licking inside my elbow to come me. Urgency landing in Linden, New Jersey and shaking, and I got out. Got an Uber owes like I'm not there like to fly back into the like, hell, no. So oh, my God knows the two times. Luckily, knock on wood haven't had too many phone hundreds and hundreds of flights for nervous fliers out there flying is way safer than driving by a factor of many. So you're talking to my mom, by the way. Now, there's so many over flyers out there. It's like one of the top questions. I, you know, she's terrified and not only that sim time. She'll take like, you know, a little something on the plane calmer nerves, but somehow it never kicks in until we land and then she'll be like asleep. It's a great thing. You my mom did the same thing. We're in Doha, and she almost got on the wrong flight. She was trying to board the Chicago fled or turn around. I'm like mom get over here. You're not going to never take before you take off though. So a lot of people will take it and the flights are always going to get delayed. I did that once my first time doing that. I take it. And the flight gets delayed in the last passenger comes on. And it's Madonna and she was sitting right in front of me. And we're in first class, and I was like, oh my God. I need to stay awake to see her antics because she was being a diva and course, so I'm like in zombie mode. But yeah, always wait till you're off the ground before you take the sleeping pill and always try them at home. I so many people will try sleeping pills or their friends on a plane, and you add in some alcohol, and that's those are the stories when you hear people, you know, pulling down their pants and like full Kristen wig moment. So always try it at home and do not pair with alcohol crazy stories on the planes. Like, I'm talking seeing people on some funny. I've never told this but years ago, I flew with Danny devito, and that all right Nuff said, let's do this. Then he was fun. He was my seatmate really nice guy introduced introduce himself in the lounge, and my dog miles was a puppy and. And Danny we take off right away or flying unite in on takeoff. You just gets up out of his seat, and he's like opening up the overhead bin to get something out. And I'm like waiting for the flight attendants to scream sure, but they didn't say anything because it's Danny devito. I guess they were starstruck. Couldn't believe he can reach the bins. He actually had to stand up on the thing to reach it that tell us some. Yeah, he he's a ladies' man, that's all I can say he definitely made a lot of friends in the cabin. And and then he does this thing with his foot. Where does a what is it club foot or something does a selfie with his foot in the air? Like he'll be at the kademi awards and put his barefoot up and take a selfie. Dog and mile starts licking like gnarly toenail, and I had to take my dog back. But it was a very nice guy. All right. So Dana veto might or might not have joined them. I. I don't know. You never know. Is there anything what are what are seen sort of? How how incredible flights have become an how beautiful the cabins can be what are airline still getting wrong? I think airlines are getting wrong. The I the coach experience. So basically airlines are making lavatories smaller seats, really cramped. I mean, it's terrible in the back of the plane in the front of the plane. It's amazing. It's like the golden age of flying is now with know, take showers in the sky, caviar. And that's why I told people like use your points because it doesn't have to be horrible that being said, I think consumers are to blame that most people don't care about the actual comfort of the cabin. So airlines who put really nice things in coach like jet. Blue aren't seeing the ROI right because people just put the cheapest flight showed consumers want the cheapest absolute flights. So we can't be surprised. The airlines are gonna give us the cheapest absolute product. So I also think in the US airlines get service really wrong in terms of when you fly Asian and Middle Eastern carriers. There's a huge emphasis on cabin crew to be nice and to serve you. And in the US. It's you're going to get cranky. Not all the time. There's plenty of really amazing US base flight attendants, but I'm only here for your safety. Get yourself soda. You know, there's thank sure of that. I think on a lot of US carriers that I would love to see turn around. You can just see some people who are like waiting to get there. Like they've gotten their ten year on the on for the airline. And they've got like three years left to retirement. They're like you're not getting in the way, me and Palm Beach wherever they're gonna people would like sixty years of service. It's crazy. But a end, what's your what's your favorite airline? I really really like Emirates. You know, the eighth Raitis, my favorite aircraft. It's the largest passenger aircraft. And here's a tip the bigger the aircraft less turbulence you feel so and the eighties. Also the quietest so certain planes. This is why like as expert travel choosing the right planes can make all the difference you fly an old loud triple seven. I mean it will rattle your ears. I'm so used to flying on these new smooth and quiet planes now whenever I fly on old planes long distance. I'm like this is literally scrambling my brain. So. Yeah, the eighth three eighty and Emerson's over one hundred of them and the showers and first class that doesn't suck. It's a little Godley. But Singapore Airlines is a close second though, Singapore is, you know, unbelievable service and just I mean, the Singapore girls, that's what they call their flight attendants with their Nazari's. I forget what they're called but beautiful dresses, and the whole experience is very very. Yes. She the couture. Yes. All right. So like last two questions for for anyone who's acknowledged travel person out there. What I mean, could you distill like if you had to give a quick two minute essential tenants of you know, travel hacks point utilization. Or is it just go to the points guy dot com? Okay. I mean, certainly go to the points dot com. We've gotta make her skied that will bring you through. Exactly what you need to know. But you're intimidates intimidate. I'll be honest, I'm intimidate and we're working on our app right now. It's going to work on what's we're calling points PHD program, which will ticket through modules from zero to like, you know, might take a couple of months to work through it. But but basically the bottom line in the US credit cards are the way to get points. They're not really frequent flyer programs anymore. So get yourself a credit card pay it off in full every month. If you're in credit card debt, don't get appoints credit card, focus number one on just getting yourself to a place of being able to pay your bills. If you're paying interest, even if you're getting points or negating, the value of any of those points, but that being said if understand your credit score the biggest factors of your credit score. Are do you pay your bills on time, and how much salable credit do you have or how much debt so that's the ratio that utilize or credit usual utilization rate ratio? So basically, the more credit cards you have and the less you pay them in full your score will go up. So if you manage your cards and pay them off in full every month, you're earning points, avoiding interest, and that's how you win the game. And then there's sign up bonuses for credit cards are really rich fifty sixty seventy up to one hundred thousand points, and so you can get a couple of new credit cards a year with these really rich bonuses and that pays for your travel. So can you cancel them? After can't hurt that's bad though. Canceling a credit card what you can do is if it has an annual fee, you can ask them to waive it or give you a bonus or you can downgrade that card to a no annual fee version. So that you're not getting annual fee, you keep the credit account opens you have that available credit, but you know, I would say in general the cards it give you the most value are ones that have annual fee. So by you know, getting a card that gives you double triple quadruple five x points. The goal is every single dollar you spend try to maximize it so use different credit cards for different purchases to get more. It sounds really dizzying. But once you get the hang of it, and you're all sudden, even double points on a bunch of categories, you're earning on your everyday spend an extra free ticket or two per year. All right last question, can you give a travel rant to the things that annoy you about people at going through security 'cause like sometimes and I'm not even a professional traveler, but I wanna be like dude how you gonna wear hiking boots like me. Hi, hiking boots to the airport. It's going to eleven minutes to get those off and back on going through security so security line. If you have pre TSA pre check, no the rules, man. Like, you know, you don't have to take off your shoes. And you know, just understand the rules. It's not that hard. I would say when it comes to boarding the plane, we call gate lice don't be gate lice where you're just hanging out. Crowding the area debt. So, you know, your lane and stick to it, you know, and people who are just chomping at the bit to get on the plane. I get it. The overhead bin space is really scarce these days. But if you really want it that bad like pay for the extra boarding or get a credit card that will give it to you. But you know, in general just be nice. I don't know why people get on an airplane and all of a sudden it's like combat mode. You know, yes, you're allowed to recline your seat. But you know, if there's someone super tall behind you. And it's an hour long flight like be cool about it. You know? So I just think be a little you know, if you're in the middle. Seat rest, you get both armrest, you know, so someone who's in the middle seat. It sucks for them. Give them an arm rest, or you know, if you really wanted to Haiti mind, I just think being a little bit more compassionate. And I'm not one of those snobby travelers. Look if you wanna clap when the plane lands off off four bets. You know what? It something really annoyed. Hey, guess what? We're lie. That we're alive. All man. I recently got into flight. And there was a couple in. It was three three passenger row. There's a couple there who just got married, and it's not their seats. And they're like, listen. We just got married, and we're going to be sitting here. I was like not now, that's me. And my wife there were like, we're newlyweds. I was like that is not the old. Yeah. No. Yeah. Taught you're totally right. Your your lack of planning is not someone else's problem. So I know man and lasts us question. If you mean to make this like an episode of how how we made it or how you made it. I mean, could you distill down one thing that helped you build all this inside of you? That's led to so much of your success. I would say I mean, it's truly my love for. Helping people, you know, and and that's what I still people come up to me and thanked me for saving them thousands of dollars. That's really cool. And that to me, that's what this business is built around right like service, and even as we grow, and I'm very very aware of the quality of our content and making sure, you know, we can write silly articles about, you know, a woman puking and doing a backflip on a plane that might go viral. But at the end of the day like our brand is about making our readers smarter about using points. And did that happen? Oh, I don't know. I just made it up. It probably did happen. Probably number one on the site right now. Really fun. It's where he isn't. No. I don't I don't know. I mean, it's just like loving what you do is so important. It sounds so cliche. But like find that thing that like really lights a fire inside of you and stick with it. And I also think beer, you know, be passionate about it. Because that comes off I meet so many people who are trying to pitch businesses or make something work, and they're not passionate about it. And I think people really smart these days and and can smell through that. So, you know, align yourself with something that you just love doing every day and work hard to make money at it. As we've discussed today, there's plenty of ways to make money out there so in thank you safe travels. Loved it. That's it. That was the podcast Brian Kelly. My guy the best the points guy. Listen to his podcast, you'll love it. And that's it y'all that was it. How about that? Right. We did it. We fucking one more podcast in the books. Man. I love doing this. I don't know if anyone's listening, but Faulk it, you know, what I mean like, I love podcast, and I love that. I can reach out to people and they actually do the pod last week. I interviewed Mark Romanek one of my favorite directors for the podcasts. I pretty sure I just pronounce his last name incorrectly. But nevertheless, what a guy that episode is coming soon. You guys are gonna love it. Yeah. And I have a son which is cool in that's going. Well, I think we'll see, you know, you don't really know how you're getting your child till like years out till the like, they're the weird kid who likes sniffs. The markers in the back of kindergarten. And like, they're you know, like a biter or. Yeah. Well, I mean, we'll see if the hard work pays off in a couple of years. But as of now, my kid is showing no sociopathic tendencies. So it's a win. Anyway. Guys. Love you. Thank you for listening. Okay. Bye.
Curious with Josh Peck
Aired 2 weeks ago 56:18
Bart's Inner Child w/ Simon Gibson
Hi, Molly gifts. And I'm Julia Prescott. And everything's coming up. Simpson's. Accepts OTA's brought to you by free trampoline, lean trim only. We are also brought to you by sure why not homeland where you can find trampoline world muck. Ville USA and mattress adventure. Funny. No, no. It does end. We are also brought to you by got so many things, but I'm just going to jump to. You know, your friend and ours. Troy mcclure. Yes. Who you may remember from such self-help films as one that I can find in my stupid. Aside from Christmas eight goes to summer camp, get confidence this my number one. That's really good. You know, what let's stop there. He confidence stupid. We're brought to you by. So thank you so much much chlorine get confidence to you know, what guys how about we talk about this episode. I would love to we're talking about the episode BART's inner child this is the seventh episode of the fifth season of the Simpsons. It originally aired on November eleventh nineteen Ninety-three it was written by George Meyer, directed by Bob Anderson, and the Showrunner at the time was David market merkin head Marquette. Quick story about David Markin. That's not really about David merkin. I grew up with a woman named Jennifer merkin, and I distinctly remember like my mom, picking me up from a sleepover at house in talking to the data and be like. Was. Was he no? But like, why did my mom ask because she knew his name wasn't David. Remember, I remember even being like just being like, oh, but. Jennifer merck. And maybe there are distant relative. Who knows? I jennifer. Sorry, jennifer. Okay. I'm so excited to bring our guest into the room. I can't wait for him to come inside the room where he's currently not in. He's. Yeah. He's well, let's just get into it. You know him from inside jokes on Amazon prime. He's also one of the fresh new faces of J fell so fresh twenty eighteen so AJ fell of course, stands for just for laughs festival. Which is I would say like the best top comedy festival in the world to huge on. It's a very very big deal. And you also know him from his weekly comedy show. The golden hour comedy show local to LA, which I'm sure he will tell you more about you can go and see him in person and touch his denim shirt. Please welcome to the show Simon Gibson. I walked in the room, very fast. Hysterics wound. Tell us more about the shirt. Oh, this all damn thing. Well, the producer earlier got it at target twenty bucks gave him eighty. Was fifty right, right. Right. Don't know. That joke. They didn't here. But you did I will give you credit for it. And those y'all that's very very so much y'all in me. New podcast. Starting to puck cold. Me need company. Bitch. It's gonna be a silly one. If you are not prepared for a silly episode. The muck out. The muck out some are sillier than others. We know how it is in the whole Simpson's podcast planet. But but I think we're going to get silly. And I think that that appropriate because this episode is so joke heavies, very silly wall. To wall wall when I at least, and maybe alley this is your process to we don't watch the episodes together, sucking needs to change change. I think it's because we don't live in the same house like each other. It's all just, you know, a facade, but anyway for our corporate sponsors who forced us to be here. I often take notes when I'm watching the episode, and you can tell it's joke. Heavy episode because I'm just constantly like, okay, this one and this one and this one, and then I just give up at a certain you just need to download the script at that point writing actually every single line. Yeah. Yeah. We talk a lot about free. He and freaky helps me. It didn't help me. Look it up in the moment. But to find out, you know, certain key, trim Chlor lines. That were just so great great. We'll hit into later and this can afford a fight. Why? There's a whole. I mean, what I love about this episode is that there are there's a story within a story. Like there are multiple episodes happening. I mean, it's the same. Yeah. Into why could watch a whole up Assode of just Troy McClure and the self help guru and their misadventures. Troy is resistant to change. But there for the free wine. Really and. Simon. I were talking about this a little bit as we were approaching the space. But while we left him outside, of course for the joke. Yester- not allowed inside. But I couldn't believe and we say this a lot. But I couldn't believe that. This is still available. We are so far into this podcast. It's an Albert Brooks episode. Harold brooks. Let's talk about him real quick. What is everybody's connection to him? How you feel about them Brooks album books is the funniest man ever live. I he's my number one comedy. I think I I really still want to dress up as his for Halloween one year. I'm going to do his bit of the ventriloquist's dummy. So there's a really great clip on YouTube that you must watch, but he has an amazing ventriloquist bit. And I have now two year old daughter who by next year will be old enough to put into the little outfit and have Lucas dummy. But yes daughter, I have a sister. It was about. At least chill is so strong this. She has. Raised a daughter. And never mentioned that you can't just bring smell into. Text me I like smell. Girl now. But I love you. I don't have a daughter. I did I wouldn't wait three years for her to do a costume with me. It'd be like instant, I know it'd be immediately like year Albert Brooks. And you're your my daughter, but your name is Albert Brooks. Yes. That's my connection. I just a huge huge fan. Everything. He's ever done this perfect. I have a actually I always talk about. Okay. Keep it. But that was what was the most prevalent when I was single and dating back when and then, you know, I didn't then people in the real world. But anyway, I had my message me if section was if you're young Albert Brooks. 'cause it's like to me is the quintessential ideal of of romance. Like, he's just at for me. Yeah. What about you Simon? Well, same thing. I would say he's also my daughter. Quincy and the romance. Romance romance. True romance. I mean, I'm I'm ashamed to say. I'm not as I'm not as familiar as Allie. But. I mean that character on its his recurring characters on the Simpsons funniest I mean, they're the funniest, and it's almost you know, as he's as integral to to the show, as you know, Phil Hartmann, I think in a lot of ways all of my favorite characters. I'm just like oh my God. Because even though he's not in as many as Phil Hartmann, like the the the importance of the characters that he has done are just just mind blowing because like everyone, I think most people would agree that you only move twice as one of the best Simpsons episodes if not even like for five. Yeah. Even for like non. Glove that one. Yeah. Well, I vol it's a Scorpio now. Scorpion. Mr scorpion. That one that one's really transcends the fan fans and the casual viewers of the Simpsons. And I feel like because it should have been a movie and what I really like about Albert Brooks. When he is characters on the show is that he adds there's like a texture to his voice acting that is different than like, there's something that's very warm about it, which I think, you know, helps when he is acting in his own work. And if you like look at a movie like, you know, real life, and is it modern romance. I think I said true romance. Which now. Very different than this actually funny. I don't think I told you that I met Penelope spirits over the weekends. And obviously she directed real life. Which is crazy Wayne's world, of course. But in terms of Albert Brooks race, right Brazi. I didn't know that. I watched a kid, and I had no idea that like my woman hero director did that. But anyway to break of court breakaway. Yeah, I think Albert Brooks when you have an episode of the Simpsons where he's acting in it, it is I think like going, you just instantly know, it's going to be very special episode because you know, everything that I've read about his connection with the people that were making the show around this time is that it was like this club of, you know, fellow comedy people that just respected the hell out of each other. So in order for them to write a story that they felt worthy for him to come by. And like add his comedy to you just know that it's already upped to like this higher echelon of quality. Yeah. Yeah. So so Simon what about this episode aside from books it makes it one of your favorites? What do you love about it? Yeah. Well, just you know, someone who grew up in in just kind of the right place at the right time when these episodes were being shown all the time. I mean, there's there's things that I quote from this episode all the time, you know, Albert Brooks when he's like there's no trick to it. It's just a simple trae say that to myself all the time. Subtle that trick simple trick. But I don't think people would necessarily know that it's even Simpson's thing, they probably just think, you're very brilliant. Oh my God. When Homer sees the trampoline. And just you know, what he's like, no. You don't that trampoline is just running a car off the road? There's a lot of great voice acting beyond just Albert Brooks in this. But off of like Homer when he first goes to get the free trampoline from crusty. I really love this exchange in, you know, not to jump into our beat by beat now the road. But when Homer goes to Christie's how he rings the doorbell and seltzer sprays in his face. He doesn't more and he doesn't more and more than just like bathing. It. Rusty opens the door that cell sorry. And he goes you here for the trampoline. And then this homers line rate is so great. What's the deal? Phasing it out. I'm going to do a lot of dirty Limerick. Yes. Yes. Thirty lyrics. And then there was a man named meanness. Yeah. It was so great. I we sometimes get into more often don't, but I just wanted to mention some of the other episodes that Bob Anderson directed because sometimes it's fun to look at kind of like, okay. What makes this episode special? What makes this episode special and you find out actually the director of the episodes that he did obviously partner child. It's the first one he directed. Sweet Seymour Skinner's bad ass song. Lisa on ice comic. Comment on is in parts. Comments two dozen and one greyhounds hurricane Nettie Homer versus the eighteenth amendment. It goes on. And it really those are all that stand out to me is is as having kind of like, I don't know. There's like a it's hard to describe it. There's bounciness weirdness. Like, those things all kind of pushed things either literally outside of the Simpsons home. You get an ice rink. You. Get a different go to the Flanders as you go to the different places, but they're all heightened in a very cartoony way. And this episode, obviously, has some some very literal references to cartoons in the animated style. Which is so funny, always do really great cinematic references, there's a really great cinematic reference earlier in in the episode that is like I mean, jolts you almost out of like the tone of the scene, but in a really good way pluses it, and I think that you know, a lot of that comes from the right? Thing. But before we jump into, you know, our step-by-step, you know, kind of beat by beat analysis. Why don't we read the synopsis from Wikipedia ice cold? Called. Yeah. Okay. Right. I think I'm in. Okay. In the episode. Get stuck Marge finally realizes that. She's no fun now. I don't like the way that this think fuck you finally realize it if it's a truth been waiting. Yeah. Like, oh, thank God Marge unless it says, I'm gonna get very defensive margin. This unless says March finally Rian realized that she's horny March get out here. I was gonna say look it says March finally realizes yet been sitting on an ice cream sandwich. That's a fact that is irrefutable. That's not. But she doesn't doesn't anyway, right, man. This nerd in the episode March finally realizes that she's no fun due to her excessive nagging and seeks help from the self help. Guru Brad Goodman who uses. Bart irreverent attitude as a new example of how people should behave the entire town of Springfield begins to act like Bart who. I enjoyed things but begins to feel that his role as troublemaker is usurped during the inaugural. Do what you feel festival several things. Go wrong in the town decides to stop acting like Bart. I really like how that was like a full book report. I like how moralistic this episode is without being preachy in a way that is becoming. Yeah. And in a way, it was kind of. I mean, you could all the stuff that he was talking about is kind of this whole self love self care movement. That's really just about. I mean, just, but it's kind of like an excuse to be a jerk, and yeah, and south importance and entitlement and exactly being considerate of other people's boundaries or or feelings not falling into the shame spiral. Rainbow. Oh, yeah. The the well there is like the there's a lot of self be terms that are being like made fun of here was because it was kind of those in the the nineties when the early nineties mid nineties when that was kind of having thing. And now, it's it almost four told the resurgence too because it was like, okay. What's going on right now? Let's kind of make make it a little more exaggerated and ridiculous. And now some of the stuff that he was saying I've seen this in echo park. Yeah. Yeah. Silverlake Kobe regional humor the need. It throwing crystal shop. We got a. In addition to the self-help stuff another very nineties thing. I think you know, this is existed throughout time in some way or another. But the idea of your identity. And how important it is to kind of be the only person who kind of does what you do. I saw that happen. A lot on Nickelodeon shows. There's an episode where everybody starts dressing like Doug in in. Doug. And it really, well, those are real cliff-hanger. Thank you. Waiting with baited breath. A. Actually cut to the break in between that. But. Dressing like, Doug and all that in round. How? It's something where you know. Everyone's kind of Doug has remember this. But everyone starts everyone's wondering like, you know, you know, you're dressing like all of us. How can you prove it? And he has a whole closet of his Doug outfits. Finally, everyone goes back to be a normal. And they're just like, oh that outfit is so last season. And it's just kind of a similar episode that of course, the Simpsons did better. But I love it episode. And it's something I've also seen in. Hey Arnold in different types of shows. It's funny. I do think that there are themes like that that happen on every show that exists and the Simpsons always does it in the way where it's kind of making fun of that if they didn't originate it. Well, I think that even though this is a story that includes it starts with the adults, and then goes to the kids, but I think that that is like are particularly relevant theme for kids in sort of seeking identity and having it be in superficial things like clothing and. And you know, certain behaviors because you've no idea what the world is in. So you're just clinging to any clue of how to individual it yourself from the flock. And I really like how this episode explores the dangers of that the dangers of it in like, a pro and con way, I guess the dangers of trampolines. Get back to dog about that. Yeah. Yeah. Did you guys have trampling? No. I did not might cousins did. And they were always injured. From a trampoline now. And I was just visiting with them over the holidays. And like, they there's not a second of the day that if there's like a trampoline eligible minute. They are seizing. And not once did I go do. I damn no. Yeah. That's funny. I I believe I've talked about in the podcast that I grew up with gigantic trampoline. Santa gave it to me. My mom. I try to get rid of it. When I was thirteen years old still believe in Santa Claus. She was just like, oh, I'm getting rid of it. We bought for you. Anyway. Bitch sip on if you're old enough say bitch to your mom like you should not some leaving Santa Claus bradey. I did. Sorry. Oh, no. No. I was just misread that. I also brought a little trampoline to mad magazine. And it was immediately confiscated what immediately. And I was so mad. I go to school there. Thank you. I flip half. Every what thank you. I brought my little trampoline. And I had a little sign that I printed out that says like by jumping on the trampoline. You promise. Not to suit me if you get injured, and I came in and these two people I won't name them. But they are very interesting characters. They already in the lane. Let's call the Mardian lane. Okay. So Elaine kinda runs the building. And Marty is kind of like a goblin that works like is it groundskeeper Phero night. Hitching this to Disney airy nice if he's listening. I love that guy. But let's just say he's gone. And so basically. I I get there. And they're just like waiting for me to get to work, and they're just like high. You can't have a trampoline here. Now. Like, oh, actually didn't even say that they said, what is this a trampoline? And then there's like an wise it here, I'm sick for fun. And I actually when they asked why I said because well the Simpsons had a polka stick it bad magazine. And I thought it'd be fun if I had a trampoline, and it's just funny, yet don't know. And they kind of set like what people can get injured, and it's like I have a sign in. And then the and then the person Marty holds up the sign in its crumpled and his fist and the news. And he said this. I was just like oh boy. And now, we keep it. Well, I hope they're not listening. But now we keep it in our little storage room. So we could jump in there. We want to privates. Not. And I gotta say Mardian Elaine from the Dresden would never. Trampoline on the panel. As. Interesting. They're winging friends on that trampoline listeners. Ways. We've been here for one hundred years, they really have listeners go ahead and look at mardi lane during this break because they are so interesting, you know, of him swaying, but they're real people on Friday rock in it until until close people if they don't if you think that this is super regional. I mean, you are correct. But then there's also way Marnie Elaine, have has touched your life because on SNL when will Farrell in on a cost IRA both cast members they're like to band sketch that they kept doing the recurring character like on their Cassiopeia. No in singing together is based on. Yeah. So let's all look it up and raise a glass lane during this break. Have you ever watched a movie so bad? You just needed to talk to somebody about it. Well here at the flop house, we watch a bad movie and then talk about it. Yeah. You don't have to do anything. We'll watch it, and we'll talk it. We do the hard work, featuring the beautiful vocal talents of Dan McCoy, Stuart Wellington and me. America's rascal Elliott Ceylan, new episodes every other Saturday at maximum fun dot org or wherever you get your podcast dude by. Bye. Break. I had a wonderful break thinking about Mati and link. Yes. So let's get into this episode. There's so many amazing moments, and we're kind of just going to go through in order. But basically, I just love the this implicity of bar is making faces at Lisa and Homer who's supposed to be parenting, immediately, exactly. Yeah. Dupin animals. Four cat and dog. The trampoline is has always been one of my favorite moments. It is excellent on Frankie AC to make a gif of it. Because Homer's pupils go in opposite directions. Yeah. Like, mardi Felton type thing, and it is so insane. Just like the super of the newspaper in how base in bare bones the for the trampling. With the salvation army's giving away sixty soiled match or what was it the men's shelter? And you'd mentioned earlier that Homer like brace kills a man to go get this trampling. He's driving my gosh driving so recklessly. Oh my God. I left so far that physical comedy fucking got me. No. You don't that trampolines mine? With just the desperation of him like knocking over all those garbage cans just printing up to the house. House. I love I love moments like that both the enemy in live action where it's just so absurd and yeah cartoony of dislike flipping table or do. I love how in this episode. It just turns into the French connection for like, two seconds over a fucking trampoline. Let's actually hear the clip just because I love how Homer says Emmys, let's roll that clip daily newspaper, Springfield men shelter is giving away sixty soiled mattresses lead that free column home. Are they never have anything? Good. A winner. Please don't bring home any crutches. Oh my God. Many more hor Lisa is terrified. She's so scared by. I mean, oh, I just I, of course, love that crusty is is very menacing. And kind of you know, like, Yep. It's all you. And I love kind of just like the very simple you're getting a look of BART's life. Just like, you're a good dog, aren't you? And then about that too because he's a hell raiser. But then he's sitting there. Nice to animal. He loves his man's best friend. Yeah. And so, you know, homers jumping on the trampoline. We could see that through the window. And I love Lisa kind of saying dislike this this almost makes up for years of shaky para Jake. Almost. Yes. And I love Lisa saying, I'm gonna have my wedding here. So kid like there's such great kid logic that surrounds. I mean, a trampoline is such an emotional thing for child. I mean as we see in rod and Todd each peppering. Peppering god. But there is something very visceral about when you were a kid jumping on the trampoline and you want to. I remember having a lot of friends that were like we're going to have a camp out on this trip elite. Oh, my God going to sleep on it. I slept under at all. The did you wake up with like frost pound? Yeah. Yeah. That's part of the cats. It's so funny for true crime podcast. We're all the rage. I think a lot of parents, let their kids sleep in the backyard on a trampoline. I'm not sure that happens as much anymore. Well, my daughter L Brooks is gonna sleep on trampling every night. I love that in Homer's adventure. Like, his his most wild adventurous dreams. Still going to question. Someone says it smells funny. Yes. This is always one of my very aligned. Clans for this trip here. Now, it doesn't it doesn't. The end of his fan. That reminds me of one time when I was talking to somebody about like roles that I would have that would I would love to play like my ultimate role, and I'm not an actor. So this means a lot. But like I had a dream since I was middle school age of I just always wanted to be like in a news e type production, but like the one news girl that like nobody wants to round. Hey, get outta here. And when I told that to somebody so in your dream. You are still being pushed away. Fantasy. You're never enough. I'm going to therapy for. I work in dying field. But I have a hat. Well, so pathetic another thing than like his shaped my whole life because they'll just be like, no, it doesn't exactly anything funny. So good. I don't know what the movie that's being referenced here. But when you get this like wide. Gone with the wind. You get you get an image of all of the injured children. Uniform takes care of it. Nails and sign very far away. That's what I was thinking of earlier because we get two very distinct ones, and it's this gone with the wind in the looney tunes later, which is like, Bob Anderson, take fuck and Bali take a bell. I said. It's so funny because Homer tries to return the trampoline and crusty. Dr. It's so good. Yeah. Yeah. We get this moment here where he throws. Where Homer throws the trampoline off the cliff, very looney tunes. And. Well, that's the end of Mr. trampoline. That's right. And it looks precisely like the road runner cartoons. Beautiful. Yeah. And even even mentioning cartoons just like well classic cartoon animated style. Like or cartoon the cliff Clifford a phone off. And you just like wolves goes from day to night wolves. And it's like, I'm thirsty. That's such a funny thing to say, yeah, we forgot to mention that. The trampoline bounces and then bounces on top of Homer. And then he gets plunged into this cliff into this. That that's the level of realism. They're bringing to this moment back and forth like three times because it's you know, the thing falls, and then he gets nailed into the side of the cliff. And then it's it goes back to real worries like I'm thirsty because I'm a human drink water. Like, it's so good. And then it breaks off anyway, cliff. I yeah, I really like him calling it Mr. trampoline and checkmate, Mr. trampoline. But one day, you'll run an in this crazy. Maniacal laughter drawn. So well, and I really did like the idea of like if you really want something to get stolen. Just put a bike lock that to me think about that. Every time I am in need of a bike lock you. And I think honestly it stopped me from getting by clock because like a what's the deal? Somebody's just gonna steal. That is a whole episode in itself. I know, but then this leads us to shock of all shocks with this episode. Code is actually about ten minutes here joy. Funny Homer says the mine, I just can't believe how hard of a right turn this episode takes. But it still feels organic at least I'm out here. Trying new things very right up to you. He's talking to March. Of course, if we're up to you what we do is work and go to church, and then that leads us into the main storyline of Marge feeling like, oh, she's a nag needs to change. Yeah. Razi, and yeah, he says she's never does anything fun. And she's like, I can name ten fun things. I did I made sloppy Joes. So we actually have this moment of her kind of talking to the kids kinda confronting them about whether or not she's an access play that clip here. Tell me truth Marino fun. Do I just nag all the time? Well. Was very worry tight budget. Here. Part watcher language, you are not going to perform at operation yourself. See marge? Realize people saw me that way. I you mad. No, I'm fine. I'm going to my sister's now. Careful mar almost Nick me. My favorite. It's so good. And. Yeah. Both of this Simpson. Parents have nearly manslaughter in this episode of Hickey lower manslaughter. But anyway, I love that. He she goes to Patty and Selma. I forget the first line, but they're kind of just checking her blood pressure's through the roof and your exam. I love silly thing. Metoo or please. Yes. That's great. And this basically gets them into Brad Goodman, who they are recommending and Brad of courses voiced by books. And this is this is this kind of, you know, self help guru he someone who's going to kind of like help you solve any number of problem, right, including nagging nagging nagging. Sorry does that sometime before that geriatric profanity disorder? Yeah. And this is basically excuse me. Like a fill in for a Tony Robbins person, which as we discussed all the rage in the nineties coming back strong in the twenty nineteen because everybody is panicking all the time. If it doesn't spark joy. Hey. A whole other. Maybe. There was a moment in the Brad Goodman thing that I thought was great of just kind of like commenting on hosts in general, he has one of my very favorite actresses on. I loved her. And the thing she was. I may have this down wrong. But I like what I wrote of unrehearsed testimony from powerful. Celebrities. Maybe that was something that too. Yes. And then I think maybe one of the books is called adjusting your selfish, stat, maybe. But then this leads us to one of the best moments ever committed to really any form of fiction, any TV any media, truly. It's it's Julius paper thing, and it's we mentioned earlier on everything. And and the entire world really is. And I'm married and I have several daughters. So think about that Albertina Brooks Marge's sitting on the couch door opens. Homer struts in. Definitely strut. Definitely a stret-. His is not quite sure. Are they glassy? Don't know. What's happening? He just struts struts strut. Well that March. That's it. Kitties three. What March you? Propo- of nothing, which is my favorite thing of anything as I mentioned silly things often fall into this category. It's beautiful. It's so funny. And so silly, and it doesn't it's it's just that little glimpse into who the family really is. When there isn't something happening right there, just being fun. It's just like putting the dog and being nice. It's just kind of like, you know, they really are family these Simpson's four now. We know having written a book alley. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We know. So I know right. I one hundred things citizens fans should know and do before they could job. And I forget, you know, that I know so much Cincinnati given the we've written a book, but. We wrote a chapter about like the intricacies of animation production, and how long it takes to get an episode on the air, and what it goes through in all of this which makes it even more delightful that this like inane doesn't do anything beautiful moment was preserved in love it so much. Yeah. It's really funny. 'cause like anytime that you see a cartoon that's bad. It's always kind of impressive because just like, wow, they really like they still had to animate this really stupid line. Like, I remember some classic cartoon like something older that probably hanna-barbera something. There was just this thing of someone asking like have you seen my white dog? And then they said no I've seen Brown dog. And then like that was it. And I was just like why don't they? Mate took eight months. Seventeen one year marriage crumbled because someone was saying overtime the dog Brown. You know, get it like that. Really great pet. Now's while bit death bed the bed that eats. Oh. He they hammered his arm must have gone out. He had to tell his wife. He was going to come home late. It's great just look it up. We get that name of the first Bonsor from Choi McClure smoke yourself thin. Thin confidence. Stupid. I love in line. Put the U in Impregillo. I love. I love it trimmed for a moment is so great. And and we two for two with them both apartment and our book, like the bread Goodman, something or. Struggling to read the cue cards just every part about it is I know we touched on this earlier reread the line a few weeks ago. I was washed back there with a drinking problem, then he gave me this job in Kano fortified y. Sweet liquor eases. The pain. That's something that I need to say more in my life. I mean, as you're reading them like all of this stuff, you know. Sweet liquor eases the pain, I also like the use of quotations in this part of the episode. I may not have a lot of quote credentials or training that I have a PHD in pain. I think is a lot of if you have even dipped your toes just a little bit into the self-help area. A lot of people are using these kind of marketing buzzwords to get by on. I mean, life coaches that is a life coach. Yeah. So we talked about like kind of like the buzzwords and the type of language that people use when they're fresh out of therapy. Particularly, you know, the I'm hearing I feel and we're gonna hear a little bit of that in this clip. Brandies your input. Now, dad. Merge. I'm feeding a lot of shame right now. I'm hearing that you feel a lot of shame field that you hear my shame feeling annoyance and frustration, but also tolerance I feel validated. By that God. I'm glad we had this talk me too. Four three surplus drums of mayonnaise from peration Desert Storm. Coming to town of you. You're fine. Now who needs Brad Goodman? Well, here we are at the bread Goodman lecture. I just thought I'd remind everybody after all we did agree to attend stove help seminar. I think to say. That is so funny, and of course, making fun of just about every type of show in the world where it's always so weirdly, while earth are they saying it when like they know where they're going. It's funny to make fun of it in that way. Yeah. Do the mechanics of TV writing? You know, I remember got years ago. Dc Pierson front of the podcast easy Pearson. Writing some tweet about like, how every pilot episode of television named checks whatever character and people just don't talk like that keirin that being and I think that every time I feel like I have to do that in a script. But like you see this being made fun of of like reminding the audience that here we are. So basically, we're in this seminar, which Brad Goodman is leading and the whole town is there so everybody newspaper, and it's very funny because he's kind of asking everybody to say what their issues with themselves are some of them are accurate. Others are not you get mister burns saying, I'm too nice. And I of course, love the inner children that are saying think about your inner child mean it's really great moments of that. What's a Madam? Oh, you know. Accent. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say always interrupting people when this so. One is so good gamers food goes in here. I love Skinner with his dummy mother that which was a central. Doc tradition to like his relationship not being good. It's so funny because he like just Wales on this dummy, and then immediately sits down right next to her to the night is but like we're gonna this night. Aren't we go to the dinner at the elks club guys ever been in group therapy with your family members at once what with my mother? Yes, I've done only go so. Yeah, that's good. Steal. All up there. Usually, it's a Wendy's. You're like it's not improv get back. But speaking of improv, we we have Bart improvise a bit of humor in the crowd here. Basically Brad a saying, you know, if you're not a human being your human doing and after that, your bar interrupts human going everybody laughs. Classic. And we get this moment of of like that kid logic of he just ask like, why did you why did you say that? I felt like it. I just felt like it Tony Robbins. I feel I fucked king love this small little moment that made me laugh back then Mimi laugh today, we can all learn something here from little red. Bard is an important. The funniest name in the entire world. And also, it's so funny to be like be like the boy be like boy just the old people in the back. We like ROY before that just ladies because it felt like what are we singing a little bit softer now crazy? It's yeah. It's it's truly very funny. And we kind of get to see that this is catching on and that everyone is is moved by this idea, and we get Kent Brockman on my two cents which I feel like we don't get enough of. But yeah, we get to kind of feel a little bit what he's going through the if it feels good do it. And we get we get Bart saying today. I am Dodd and then we get that. Sitting on an ice cream sandwich and the dog licks it which I just kinda like gives up and stands. It's such a simple joke that doesn't really amount to anything again. Like this episode is filled with those little pop. And you know, what guys it's break time. Anita coffee. Welcome back. And thank you, Dan for that. Scathing report, as you know, mex- drive is coming up March eighteenth to March twenty ninth which has some folks pretty excited, but as families around the world, get ready to celebrate this season of giving community and quality podcasts. Some are wondering if it's just too much. They are some people are all for comedy and culture, but with forty five shows offering hundreds of hours of bonus content. Plus, all the max fun meet ups taking place around the world, some people think it's too much while other people think it sounds totally awesome. I took my granddaughter to the mall to get her picture taken and the mall. Pod ferry was short. I'm just gonna say I'm sorry. But everyone knows the pot fair is told I think we should just leave it there until next time. Here's the news. You need to know. Max drive runs from March. Eighteenth twenty nine be sure to listen to all of your favorite podcasts. I know I will. Rebecca, my brain. Laugh break that coffee. So basically throughout the next little moment. Here we get everybody in the town from Martin to Reverend Lovejoy everyone is kind of embracing their inner child or specifically their inner Bart. Can you see how frustrating that is at church Reverend Lovejoy decides that he's gonna play that song? Do I know wait start side? Again. And again, it's just so funny to like experience the doldrums of him trying that and it stretching out and that kind of joke is very fun. And then you get the chaos of the other town jokes of I mean mill house rising up and giving it all on a change in my name. Yeah. Martin just like our tenth caller will Latrice free tickets to Supertramp that is like that is so funny. Why did you choose for tramp? Yeah. All been and environments, especially if it's like, a midnight movie or things like that where people are kind of yelling at the screen like when people are like ham in it up a little too much, and you're like, okay. So you betrayed the social contract. We were all a part of something. And now you're really going for the gold. But yeah, and it really is just a setting, especially, you know, in your formative years when you've kind of felt like something is is you. And other people do it who are you? And it makes even into it makes you feel bad. And you know, Lisa has some really interesting insight on identity, and we're gonna listen to that right now. Everyone in town is acting like me. So why does it suck it simple? But is defined yourself as a rebel on in the absence of a repressive media. Your societal nature's been Coa did I see ever since at self help guy came to town. You've lost your identity you fallen through the cracks of quick fix one hour photo instant oatmeal society with the answer. Well, this is your chance to develop a new embedded identity. May I suggest good natured doormat sounds good? Just tell me what to do. Hear me. But we. We we get to do what you feel day, which I forgot to mention is a much better version than do what we tell you to do or to what we say day, which was invented the Germans. Forty six. I love that so much something that I knew that. Julia would appreciate in that Jordan more sort appreciate his margin overalls. Simpson's where different outfit. Garp? I could finally dress. How I won't be in hassle. And then up who dislike breaks out in front of them saying cowabunga, but the lines I didn't even realize from the Simpsons that I say all the time is just calling ice cream ice cream. So funny iced cream. Smithers moment is so great Smithers, of course, feeling vulnerable taking this opportunity in the spirit of the festival. I would like to say that. I love you in those colors. Kidding? The boat. House was the. Another example, like I would love to see a full episode of that story. And then a full episode of the Troy McClure Brad could it's like so many different things some things. So we obviously credit the an praise the animation on the Simpsons. But something that was bizarre to me is that the band behind James Brown does not move at all the horns are going on a single cutting in this episode so weird last seen bantered adding Bob Anderson doing well, he was trying to keep his job. There's a static shot of the Simpsons watching TV, and I'm not sure it's intentional or not. Yeah. It was an interesting one. But we get we, of course, we had to have a feel good. And it makes sense. But basically things start to Runamuck someone didn't screw in whatever it is keeps the stage together. The bandstand, basically, we get you know, Willie didn't oil or grease up the fair wheel. Which unleashes like zoo animals? Actually, very you're headed for the old mill. Let's go there anyway and have some cider. Yeah. Just total anarchy chaos. Oh and also just in terms of like that old cartoon references. When we get the moment of just like, you know, get the little boy, it's his fault. We just get IPE which courses runner, and it's funny because we get marched change. Like if only I had nagged more, and like we do kind of learn the lesson. Well, actually, the entire family struggles to find out what the the like lesson. Really is right, right. And the clock is ticking on the episode. So I think that's why we get you know, we talk a lot of on this podcast about like this very quick wrap up ending which I love, but that's why we get them. At the end saying the the lesson is self improvement is better left to people who live in big cities. No, that's not it proven can be achieved. That's what I'm saying. We're all fine. And they make it the thing of saying, no, it's know, it's self self move. It can be achieved not with a quick fix. It's like a long arduous task. It's on the that lasts forever. And then Maganga comes on my garnell. And again, that's the running thing where he's garnered Ville. Yeah. Outta easing the pain hall sweet alcohol better. I forget what is the line at the end. I don't know what mcgarrigle says but someone else back like maybe you're a few job chief. And he's like what does it mean? And Homer yells. It means he gets results you stupid chief dad sit down. Sorry. That's a wonderful will the gun really busted. Episode of something I would love to see oh, did you really have to break all that furniture? What he's concerned about it straight furniture. It's it's truly such a good fun weird episode. That has so many things going for it. It's it's one of the best. I think and I say little underrated. I don't think people think of this. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, obviously, there are a lot of lessons in this episode. But if there was one takeaway for you sign, and what do you think that would be from our talk or the episode of the Simpsons? The one takeaway. I mean, just the running theme of the Simpsons with this episode, especially it's just a another example of how it's within its time. And then also ahead of its time to be just in because you know, it was relevant then. And then now, I mean, it's even more rights even more relevant is just I could watch I could watch that season. But there's a specific, you know, span of seasons that I can watch for the rest of my life, and I will always find something and just when you just said the ban behind James Brown isn't moving. I never noticed that and go home and watch that and be like, oh, that's annoying. Time. And then there was one character in the major family or just in the town, which one do you identify the most with? That there's too, but I would save mo-. Yeah. He's the most fun too. I'll go into the old mill not. Not let's go to anyway site. I mean, I've said that again. Craft really love him still. Let's go there. Anyway, get subside her without context that fifteen years. Absolutely. Yeah. I I'm very grateful that you're Simpsons fan because it made it much easier to talk to you before. I really like knew what to talk to you about you know, what I mean. And it was something that made it like, it's it was such a good ice breaker when I would see you at shows and would be like we both like the Simpsons, and then it's so much easier. And it's those things so special, and, you know, having you on it's been great. So thank you so much for coming by show. Thank you so much, of course, things for wearing that sure that denim shirt. It's my only shirt now one hundred seven thousand thousand oh, no that's too much money in my car. Thank you sign really needed that. So where can people find your stuff when you wanna plug? Well, if you have Amazon prime, please watch inside jokes if you don't have gone prime out give you my password. I because that earlier bears repeating free shipping tons of, you know, great great stuff on there. Not just inside jokes Mazel and must have Mazel. Gotta have the Mazel Dev makes jokes at amazing back to jokes. Right, right. Acted a brought some rain now when you're eating food because. Yikes. And then yeah, I have a weekly show in LA called gold. Now our follow us on Instagram. It's every Sunday seven thirty. I grill hot dogs for it. Thank you like, you rosta, tell them who's. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. I so it's a great show. Great show. We'll thank you so much again. This has been a blast you. Julia. Where can find you online? Thanks for asking me, actually, press all the things. I'm just they're hanging out alley. Find you. Thank you so much for me on me at Allie gristmill the things and you can find us at Simpson's pod. And everything's coming up. Simpson's is a production of maximum fund. Our show is engineered and edited by hey, Suzanne Brosio, and our senior producer is Laura Swisher. Switch smelly later. Maximum fund dot org and culture, artists owned listener supported.
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