20 Episode results for "Rick Miller"

Ep. 66  Work Holding that Works with Rick Miller

Swarfcast

43:44 min | 1 year ago

Ep. 66 Work Holding that Works with Rick Miller

"Hey everybody thank you for listening to swap cast before we start. We have a quick favor to ask you. If you love the show please rated and write review on your podcast APP or tell somebody about it. It really makes a difference for us. We'd appreciate it okay on with the show so we all had lots of great ideas but actually implementing them is extremely difficult. And if it's an the idea that is not really understood very well then. A lot of your time is spent educating people as benefit this is worth cast. I'm Noah graph. Today's guest on the podcast is Rick Miller owner and Co founder of Elisha The tooling a company that sells innovative. CNC Work Holding Equipment. Rick has an actor coming up with unique products and as several patents in the work holding sector. He says that innovative ideas are vital for success but getting customers to buy into those ideas is what makes for a successful business looking for a screw your machine rotary transfer machine or seeing scene graph bankers guy covered when you're buying any used machine you're taking a risk so it's important to buy from someone who knows their stuff and who is going to give you straight information about what you're buying. Graph pinker is a family owned firm. That's been dedicated to selling great machine tools to turn turn parts industry for seventy five years. It specializes in the top multi spindle brands including index Schulte Gildemeister Tornadoes Z.. GPS ACME Whitman. They also sell a variety of other types of used equipment such as CNC SWISS CNC turning centers and parts washers machine. Tools are complicated. If you're going to buy one you should go to people who are knowledgeable and committed to the industry learn more at. WWW DOT graph pinker anchor dot com. That's www dot G. R. A. F. F. P. I. N. K. E. R. T. dot com. I am thrilled to have Rick Miller of Elisha tooling welcome to the show. Brick brick nuts. Really great to have you thanks. I met Rick because he inquired about a Su- GAMI B. The oath. Three eight five that we had on online and unfortunately we didn't have the machine that he needed but it was a really good chance to get to know him and talk about other things that we could collaborate John or sell tomb etcetera and I said we had to do a podcast so here we are awesome so I I want a brief summary of your company and then I wanna get your background and how we got to where we are today. Sure I'll try to be really really brief. So we started in nineteen ninety as programming in company myself. My two brothers and another guy. We spent about seven years or so developing being our capabilities programming. For what programming primarily for milling machines. Okay so we purchased a a mini mainframe and loaded the Katiba software so that we can talk to the big companies. How long ago was this nine hundred ninety so we think of that as the bleeding edge of outsource programming that was sort of in the beginning of that kind of thing They were outsourcing account on any things like that but for NC firming was fairly rare. We gave that we did pretty well at it as far as our technical capabilities but that from the financial business standpoint. We weren't very good at it. We were heavily in debt and so heavily in debt. That may sound great some people but it wasn't to us. It was Iraq. We were carrying around on our backs so we started trying to develop some other other methods in other ways of income we our first product was a piece of software that we bombed that completely bombed that and then our next product was they were calling fasteners that we still still made to this day. What was the thing that you bombed at was a type hype of it was an interface for Katiba again? Pretty long time ago. What is Katiba for people like me? That don't know what it is a pretty well known cad system that is used for cameras. Well that you know really big companies the Boeing's the Airbuses the you know the Lockheed's of the world this particular piece of software is able to bring in the millions of parts make airplanes and manage it all the way through. So it's it's really a is not not only is it really expensive software but it's a vastly important to as civically aerospace. So you guys had come up with like a software for a specific application so what we would fine is transferring. Data back and forth was problematic. We Kit Do a better job of it so we created a piece of software to do that interesting. Yeah it worked the software work that we sold one license. So that's not very many licenses okay. So so then you and your brothers. How many brothers two two you two other brothers Okay and you put your heads together and you said we had one other partner the very beginning? But he wasn't with us very long. Okay and how did you come up with the idea to do work holding stuff while we were programmers so over are time. NC programmers a lot of them would learn to working to holing. They could double as a tool designer. Probably until until his heirs would take you no exception to that but we were able we a lot of times we were designing our own. Digs a you'd get parts you had to program. He had to figure out how to hold the locate them. So that was just part of our job really so then you came up with this this work holding equipment and what was the. What was the thing that that caused you to come up with? You know explain I explain. And why is this work holding equipment different from all other work holding. Well why why do we only eat unleavened bread tonight. Yeah wow what what makes it. Unique in the world right. Yeah why would anybody be interested in doing it. So the it's a type of fastener we we call it a captive fastener and it is used to eliminate bolts and clams and were calling okay so in in those days are primary purpose was simply to get rid of all the setup sheets that went along with these programs yet and you had to have sheets of paper that told people win to change clamps where change clamps and how often incorporating this simple device we were able to get rid of a significant number of Glam changes. And and. So that's that was really the impetus to you're automating. You're automating the process in a way. Yeah we talk about it in terms of standardization MHM creating a process that if you use it over and over and over again you'll make money a lot of money actually So you just take me into this process So you and your brothers and your partner I wanNA know. What was the brainstorming process? Like you were just saying like okay. This programming thing is not working what what are what are the pain points or it. It really wasn't like that. What what the idea was not brand new but what was brand new about it was that we had made made it an off the shelf part you could buy it in other words versus having to go and have it customized ordering people would actually take pieces parts and welcome together and it was just a hodgepodge kind of way of doing things? The idea was a good one but we don't really we don't say hey. We thought of that. We didn't think about while we did is improving vastly and it's been improved over the years number of times we've had had I think we have maybe three patents on our our coal. Our were calling fasters now. Something like that We thought the the idea was great. We didn't think the implementation was great and we didn't think that we needed we couldn't just buy. You couldn't just go buy the thing so we are idea was to make it. So in those days it came from the back of the fixture which was very inconvenient if it broke was Didn't work for some reason you had to pull the fixture off machine and repair while we did is take the idea of having a a a fascinating component coming up out of your fixture in its screwed in from the top of the fixture so if you damage it or had a prom frahm whether you just screwed it out it was easy. Can you Show US something show us one of the fixtures real quick so it's less abstract for the people lucky lucky enough to be watching this so this seat I can interest. This is a small one and it's really mostly for show but you can see that. Here's your fastener that we're talking about. And then we have art fixtures consist of basically two components the fastener that holds things and we call this zip pushing that locates things and locates in hold banks in you. Just put them in this pattern like this. So what happens is you can create a fixture like this and eliminate a whole bunch adjudicated fixtures. This is the concept way we. We say that we're a flat play manufacturer. Quick Change Tilling which is a unique niche in the marketplace. You can buy the fasteners. So here's our fastener. The tube of our fasteners you can Miam- they have an instruction sheet with them. You can see the instruction sheet of Astor's here so you can buy the fasteners and put them into your fixture or you can buy the fixtures from us but either way through the standardization Approach Process of doing this you can you can say settled time nine and cycle time and a lot of trouble. Yeah well you know. I've looked at your your blog on your website which which is very interesting. I have to say and you talk about. You've come up with various equations of how much money you can save. Yeah give us your pitch. which is a bitch well? We're we're quick change. We're calling in a modular sense. I mean an typically you see Dr Staff in high speed machine Lot Aerospace manufacturing aluminum parts specifically but also titanium and hard metals. There's autumn way. See US quick change but you said I saw on one of the videos. You said it'll save you X.. Amount of money so you know. Give me the way you calculated that yeah we lo- inches took the number of hours that that what we did is we compared a setup in which you had clamps and you had to change clamps versus not having clamps and not changing lamps and all we did is sort of speculate relate as to how many times you might change that fixture in a month. It was really really conservative. We we didn't WANNA go over the top with it even so I think we came up with about four thousand dollars in savings per month. Wow so it was fairly significant if you start multiplying across your machines so I hate when people do this ask what's the Roi on this whatever but So what would be the Roi. How much investment would it take for you to make back that four thousand dollars a month or just it depends on how much production you're doing? Yeah absolutely they. The fixtures themselves can be very complex and expensive or they can be not as complex and not as expensive. So you really have to look at the total cost go in with so for example. I just visited a customer last week they had. I won't mention any competitor's names why not I wanted Komo you don't have to. I'm curious who is the device that in talking about zero point locating and they told us the figure that they had spent on this zero point located was about. I WANNA say was eighty thousand dollars or something like that in a single machine and they were they were a cutting these tiny little cars and all they were doing is just removing a little piece of that art and immediately mind in my mind is starting to shake the numbers and thanking okay. The the machine that must take seconds the amount mound material or removing is nothing so how many millions of parts does it take just to pay back the costs of that got to link so you really the whole. Roi Thing is something that that any businessman really needs to think about regardless of what he's doing like you know even software we're looking at some European soccer right now and that's our question. How do we get our money back and zone? We're always asking that question and we're all always thinking in terms of how can the customer get their money back for buying this product and these the methods of work holding And so it really simple equation for us. We don't we don't see it as a hard sell at all. Okay so so one of the things that we talked about before was you said you know. The invention part isn't that isn't the big deal it's the making people understand how they're going to use your product after you've built it that's laying. Give give me give me your insight on that ally have a kind of a funny story. My wife claims she's along. Mm who invented the roller back that you see in the airports you know people pulling the bag and it's got wheels on really. When did she? When did she invent that? That's the the thing it was her idea. But if you think about it so we all had lots of great ideas but actually implementing them is extremely greenlee can be extremely difficult. And if it's an idea that's not really understood very well then a Lotta. Your time is spent educating educating people as benefit And so that's the difficulty for in our case. We we've always been stronger in the the organizational managerial type area but in the marketing and sales. That's where we had difficulty. We're working on it but no it definitely seems like you are but I guess my question is some people say some inventors. They say it's really not that hard to come up the new ideas they're like you know the the a lot of people they come up with one idea and they're really scared that somebody else is GonNa take that idea and they don't WanNa share or anything and they're you know an I. I'm sometimes the same way like even just with a certain strategy or something But then when you hear other Gurus and they say now you should have a gazillion ideas. If you're an idea person it should just It I should just keep coming out. And and then you'll you'll keep coming out with something and my impression is maybe that that is your attitude. It's the ideas. Aren't that hard. It's making the ideas reality and and getting people to adopt them is. Is that your thing or or our ideas to sacred a sacred limited commodity. I don't think they're limited and I don't think they're sacred. I do think that the marketing the mechanics. Annex of getting product out in the marketplace is why most products never get to the marketplace actually had an example that right here Kazimi meted out so anybody can see this so this was one of my ideas. You go there you go so this is about aww type of T. Slot vice and you can see. We literally made it. I mean it's physical and you can move it around and it actually works on some level so is it a good idea. Well maybe make. It didn't sell away. We presented customer. And they didn't like it they didn't buy it so the reality is. There's the idea we made it. It's cool but there's a a lot more to get the product out in the marketplace than just making yes thinking of it or even coming up with something that's a great idea speer career idea. Do you feel like maybe you didn't. You just didn't do a good job of getting people to believe in that product very possibly area possibly possibly but it appears that you've let that one kinda lay dormant and gopher something else for now. Yeah so here's another the product so this looks like a really simple product. Describe it for the people listening this. Is We call. This is pushing and it's a combination up to products. If you can see this is a bushing and a threat insert and together in a fixture you can use them for. You can put a pin in there you can put a shoulder screwing there. You can put a screw in there but there are two different products to different products products and they have to be co linear. They have to be related to each other in a circle so that beyond that just a pain gene to install so what we did is we created a combination product. So here's the bushing everybody's familiar with the bushing hairs threaded insert and they got together in a fixture. So what we did is we created. Read this you can see similar characteristics a threaded outside Precision outside Amager. The what's different. Is this bushing on. The top has to be pressed into the fixture. And you can't get it out this bushing. It has teeth in it and so you can drive it in and out in seconds so seems like an easy easy idea no big deal. It's taken US five years ears to get to this point five years. Yeah and but the thing is it's fantastic and we we've been really excited about. We just got the patent on it a couple months ago. So that's one of your three patents. We have more than three PAT. I said three patents on our fasteners. Okay how many do you guys have a long. We have eight right now. Okay now who. Who is the maestro behind this are are you the one that like is sin with a pencil and paper coming up with all this stuff? Yeah like Steve Jobs and you're just going around the room with like a whip and saying give me a better faster. Yeah No. That's not what happens. John's but yes the ideas. Are I think the Bible says nothing new under the Sun something like that so you the one of the reasons you me your customers and you try to know them better is to figure out what they can use what will benefit them mhm. So it's not like so for example. This product is patented because it's unique in the world it's novel but it's not only to the point these two things so is an improvement on this but it's a vast improvement on this so the idea is already. They're all we did is make it better than a lot of ideas are like that. Yeah no things about. And what machine did you make that on of curiosity that L.. Three eighty five was the first machine that we made the song with no guide bushing. That's right that is exactly right. Hey anybody out there shameless self-promotion or or whatever anybody out there who has a sugamo thirty be two millimeter or eighty or thirty eight millimeter. That has no guide bushing in it. Yeah we're looking for one. Give me a call not not rick and and you know who wants to do that. Who knows maybe maybe we can Help enable him to come up with some more innovative products. Yeah absolutely listeners. Do you have an idea for a future episode of Swath cast or is your company interested in advertising. Swerve cast podcast. If so please send us an email at Swath Dwarf cast podcast at G MAIL DOT COM. That's swath cast podcast at G. Mail DOT COM. Okay so another thing that you do. That's pretty interesting on your blog. You have you have a blog you have videos. Yeah and I. That was one of the things that I noticed when you know often when people contact us about machines I go to their side and check that out the explain the story behind that and that how. That's helped your business because I know a lot of our listeners. You know they're always looking for ways to promote their business. Yeah okay well back story just a little bit. I have eight children. Wow Yup yeah and two of my boys are entrepreneurs how old are they. My oldest is thirty four and my youngest. This is fourteen. Wow Okay so she just turned fifteen days ago and those are the two entrepreneurs the oldest and the youngest now so now the oldest and the third oldest so the third oldest is a millennial and he started a business in A social media marketing. And he's the one that said to me. Hey you need to think about making videos. It's the highest the highest search. Engine thing so we hired him and so a we were his first customer. I believe very cool. Yeah so and he's still businesses. Been in business couple years now the uptown agency just engage Jason. Be wants to know but he he kinda was on the leading edge of email the social media marketing here head and watching. I can't remember the guy's name he's probably told me this guy's name fifty times now but it was the guy that sold wine and had. Oh yeah about what is his name. Vinnie Dino Yeah no I I've I've read. It is book right from a very small vineyard to sixty million sales like instantly through social media. Gary Banner Chuck Gary V. Yeah that's IT GERRYMANDER check. So you know he had been falling. I mean this guy and so I tried to get out of making the videos. I tried to get other people. In fact job did the first video for C.. Joe Is your your son. Yeah he did and but we just didn't get the response and we had several people kind of tried and then I tried it and people responded to me. Yeah so I've kept making them and it takes a lot of time but it's kind of fun. Yeah Yeah it's kind of fun I it wouldn't have imagined myself in that spot a couple of years ago. Yeah Yeah but I mean you have to keep trying different things and it makes your and your brain sharp. What is your secret to keeping your mind sharp to keep coming up with new ideas? It's a big big secret for me that I have a blog about it. I just put it out within the last couple of months which I go on. sabbaticals tackles we on. Yeah Week Long Separation from society from your family from everything yet. Where do you go? Oh it's all over. I've been North Carolina in Colorado. The last one was in Oklahoma. Yeah we ran a house someplace and I stay there for about a week. We or you alone just me okay. Okay no no. TV No radio. As little as I can as I can get what about a computer her. Yeah Oh yeah I got a computer gotta do work. Because that's where you're designing not necessarily designing. I mean it it. It just depends on what I'm doing I read. I have a great deal of my life is about my fate so pray I read. I get your what. What is your faith? I believe that Jesus crisis you know the the guy. That's we're celebrating here in the next week and came to save. The world came the same as from our sins. That's a s my faith. And how does that figure I. It sounds to me like you're saying it. It in some way figures into your creative process. Isn't that fascinating I mean and you're not the first person who's told me that but it's an interesting synthesis so shed a little light on that. I would really encourage you in anybody else to go. Watch my blog on on my sabbatical but basically what I said is connect with the Creator. That's where it all comes from so the the creation is amazing is beyond belief and we can tap into that we we can tap into the god of creation so and I believe that many ideas are inspired that way. So you're saying that okay. You're on Sabbatical. Yeah and you're Kinda looking up and looking for inspiration and can you. How does God give you inspiration when you're trying to come up with a fastener well so it doesn't quite work like like that? I don't really go into with any particular thing that I'm going to get out of it. Okay that makes sense the inspiration ration- for ideas. I don't know that I've had any of those happened on Sabbatical but there have been several things that happened on Sabbatical. That absolutely changed us. Change our lives. Change Our business absolutely and so I'm not counting just Products and has the What came out of Sabbaticals House? So I'll give you an example and talk about this in my blogs too. But how many blogs do you have. There's maybe sixty and how often do you put them out. We try to do weekly. Your ambitious man. Yeah Yeah we we're trying to make a business just out of that and it's enough effort to put out to and like anyways go on so you were saying how you got this one. There's one concept that I mean. Everybody knows but nobody does is get out of that. I mean that can sabbatical. I was absolutely convinced. I'm Don on I am done. This is not what I'm supposed to be doing. We cut up the cards and L.. Fear for for yourself personally our business for our business and for us personally but what about the miles the mile so like I just paid for her plane trip to Europe just from the miles from my card. Okay yeah so we had to kind of work that kind of thing because we do have a line line of credit now but I pay it off every other day so I'm never in debt to it so your businesses all in. It's all in cashier company all in cash all machines all everything. Everything is cash. You'd never finance machine we have if we have in the past But for example we just bought. I'm not gonNA name the machine but the price is over two hundred hundred thousand loans. Just put it like that and it's my name's name the machine we want to give us. It's a competitive. We're right now. We're not sure we we want everybody on earth to know okay. Something that's fascinating know of it that I don't know whether yeah maybe you can appreciate it. But we We used to go to trade shows more often than we would see people coming to our booth who were our competitors and in a lot of time they're interested in it would see our ideas out there in the world and it's like I don't know I don't know so we're careful and we're not we're not tell everybody buddy everything but I thought you said a second ago. That ideas were easy to come come up with and it was the execution. Yeah that's true but we we do go to the trouble of of patenting things What we're doing is creating barriers? We do need some barriers between us in the rest of the world. But I guess to go back to my point is that by things in cash has Freed us up in so many ways I just cannot express. How awesome that that are life is you can't articulate how how much better things are? It's amazing it's amazing. Where where so so much better off now? I'm sure it's just a huge weight off your cells it is it is and was it difficult to get in cash. Oh Yeah yes you're was. I mean lots of people would love to to be in cash. Yeah my advice to them would be just star Star working on So I I'm I'm fascinated by the sabbatical thing. I'd love to do one. Okay so give me the Give me like the scoop what would you. What is your day on a sabbatical like yeah okay? Ah So on Sabbatical. I tried to separate burn Influences outside myself and and especially the company so I don't WanNa be burdened by everything that's going on back home so that's why we try fire best not to spend time on the phone as little emailing as possible. It's not always possible. We just do the best we can but I I focus on exercise. Sleep rests because so often that this is the thing that gets depleted. How much sleep do you normally get? Maybe six hours around there and then on your on your sabbatical what do you get nine nine ten and and it's also I eat when I'm only when I'm hungry and I sleep when I'm tired and sometimes you hugh and find me asleep in the middle of the afternoon interests are anytime you know. It's fascinating when you start listening to your body and just do what it what it's telling you to to do. Yeah and then you write winter. Yeah I do I ride I journal. I research things I get ideas about. You know just different things and I'll I'll dig and and this is my opportunity to spend time trying to figure out something or day into read like what were you. What will you read? Well whatever happens to it. Interested that moment help Bible all those things. Yep Wow oh very interesting I have like this is a. Here's my journal. One of them. How do you write in in your journal? I probably three to five times a week sabbatical. I could write you. You know thirty forty fifty pages. What are you write in your journal on your I? I try to write every single day. What do you what do you like do you just Kinda? Yeah Right. What happened during the day and then whatever reflections come? Yeah the things that I'm thinking about the does insights that we went on Sabbatical. The go you know we went there. Yeah I love the park. Hard a little scary for me. Because I feel there's some pressure to make it quote worth it. Yeah Yeah no way way my family. My Company didn't have me for that period of time. So there's a little bit of pressure about the something right. You GotTa Make It count since you're away and then that's probably not the thing that makes you productive. That's right that's right and if we can just focus is on my blog. I mentioned something like you know. Athletes Work hard and they have to rest. They have to recover so so as a business owner. There's a lot of pressures. And stresses and the Sabbatical gives me the chance to just let it go. Yeah so before we wrap this up. I mean there's so many other things we can talk about because I know you've you've talked about various different philosophies you're building with your business and I think it'll have to be a future podcast but Gimme Gimme like your top reflection going into twenty twenty maybe give me your top reflection about nineteen and your top reflection about twenty. Wow that's a that's a okay. Something something that is in your gut not. I'm not just talking about about some theoretical thing about my business or whatever a feeling now there is something in my gut so a lot of times I think businesses and maybe smaller businesses especially. Don't really spend a lot of time on their mission or their vision. And the more that I dig into that the more I realize that really all of life is about what are are Y in essence. Why are we doing what we do? Where are we going how we get in there and the this this this? That's rattled around a lot in the last year. We're really working on your life. tooling we've been it's it's something we review something we talk about and the more I did this business thing. I realized that there's you can have a vision for the business. Then there are subsets. You know your production area can have its vision. Your Administrative Eric can have its vision and these all tired and the vision for the business and then the mission and so for nineteen. I feel like that does two things really became in front and Center for us In Twani we are looking to bill bill on our growth. We're growing pretty well and said missing visit of course will play a big role in it. But we're trying trying to Like I said sort of get to the next level that that involves empowering people we'll creating systems that are valuable. You're really not going to be able to sell to people you're limited headed by your systems. So the the the better the systems the more likely your customers can do business with they ultimately. It's about trust if they believe that when they order wines as they're gonna get it and when they use it it works works and it's reliable. This is trust Even the way we you know we talk about packaging our products. That matters is because it's creating trust so we're we're thinking about the idea of scaling and units for us and we've started like there's in some things that we put into place that are moving into twenty twenty and that's what will be focusing on in the next year is our our for scaling efforts to move into our our future. It sounds like you have a really good plan. We we have one. Yeah I mean it's like you heard the thing about the Mike Tyson right like Mike. Tyson says he wants said everybody comes into the fight with the plan until you get punched in the gut punched in the face. I'm not Gotcha. But it sounds like your plan as you. You're you're already continuing something in place. And that's that's really impressive. I think it to go to your analogy getting punched in the gut and that happens all the time in business and things I feel like every single day punched in the Gut right and then I get up and make my own punch exactly. I mean that is that happens every single day and I think that's that is part love learning to be a businessman is just getting that perspective. It you're GONNA get hit. That goes with the territory. Yeah just being flexible flexible in your thinking. Be Willing to change. Be Willing to adapt to what is happening. What your customers are saying? What in your products are saying? We have trouble with our products. We don't just sit there hands. We fix them. We we modify them. There are customers mercer are are made whole. Wow so it's just a whole all big. The whole thing is trust. Rick this has been great I really appreciate you coming on the show and I look forward to having a good relationship Going forward forward. I I learned some some interesting things and have good things to reflect on so thank you. Thanks mm-hmm.

Rick Miller Katiba US John Elisha Katiba Schulte NC G. R. A. F. F. P. I. N. K. E. Iraq soccer partner Boeing Mike Tyson marketing and sales Whitman Co founder
3: The Murder

Murder In Alliance

39:35 min | 2 months ago

3: The Murder

"Previously on murder alliance very nice very trendy. Lock them kind of relationship behind the teams. Because i was dating somebody really good person close. We want to walk you. love coins. Were good quality together. I don't real don't have child his mind. She actually cheated on a couple of times. she was murdered. Her mom had founder. Lets you chase down in a pool of blood. I'm hearing the word that he sang but they're just not making sense. This is murder and alliance an active investigation into who killed a lane. I'm maggie freeling on april fools day. Nineteen ninety nine of ovens mother. Tanya arrived at nine sixteen divine vons house to take pressed into kindergarten around noon. Tanya testified that she took preston to school every day she had seen on the day before march. Thirty first in the morning alive and well sherman lane vons. Dad also testified that he saw her alive the day of her murder. Although he said he could not police a time anyway. It was routine for tanya to arrive in the driveway and beep for preston to come out but on april first no one came outside so tanya got out of her car and knocked on the door. Still nothing she noticed. The door was unlocked. She opened and called inside still nothing. Tanya said then she backed up to look at the balcony and see if von had come out that way as sometimes she did now. The layout of nine sixteen divine is really odd so to understand the crime scene. You need to understand the house. The entrance to nine sixteen divine is a ground level door when you enter that door. You're on the ground or first floor when you walk in. There's a living room utility room and a set of stairs. You take the stairs and on the second floor is really where everything is. Once up the stairs you enter directly into the second living room area through there. Straight ahead is the dining room the kitchen to the right if you continue in a u. Shape to the right of the kitchen is a bathroom. The first bedroom and then there's another set of stairs that set of stairs leads to the third floor bedroom going back down off. The dining room to the left is a sliding glass door to the balcony. That looks out over the driveway and devine street so tanya had opened the front door but instead of stepping inside she backed up to see for von was on the balcony. She was sent and as tanya was looking the knee vence. Four year olds came down the stairs from the second floor when he got to about the third step tanya asked. Where is your mom events. He responded but she didn't understand him remember. He was developmentally delayed and sometimes to understand so she went up the stairs and when she got to the top twenty six year old daughter face down in a pool of blood bound in a pool of her own blood tanya testified that she was trying not to blackout with her dead daughter directly in front of her and she could hear the other kids in and preston crying in the second floor bedroom baby. Trenton was in his crib in vons room on the third floor. Tanya said she was thinking of going to get them across the house but wasn't sure if someone was still in house plus she would have to walk through the crime scene over her daughter and she was concerned about contamination so tanya said she ran back down the steps moved any by his crib which was in the ground level living room and told him to stay put then she went to the neighbor next door to call nine one. One temperature is personal. Everyone's ideas of comfortable is unique. Personally i hate being cold. There is nothing worse to me than being cold or sitting in a freezing cold office bays not feeling thermally comfortable can contribute to loss productivity increase stress levels and can be mentally exhausting. Maybe that's why. When i used to work in an office i felt all of those things so in these situations ember wave. Is there when you need relief. Most ember wave is a bracelet. And all you do is press to activate to create a cool or warm sensation on your wrist. The sensation works with your body. And mind to make you feel more comfortable in a matter of minutes. It's based on the science of how your mind and body respond to temperature sensations. It's like holding an ice cube to the wrist or sticking one foot out from under the covers when you get hot. Do this all the time in the middle of the night. i love my ember wave. I wear it when i go to sleep and it truly does regulate my temperature. The second generation ember wave bracelet has arrived experienced the same thermal wellness benefits in a brand new wearable and app design. You can pre-order the wave to on the website or you can still order the original ember wave you can save fifty dollars on either product by visiting ember. Wave dot com slash. Mia that's e. m. b. r. Wave dot com slash m. I a ralph. Petty was the first to respond to the scene. He testified that he got the dispatch call at twelve thirty two and arrived about three minutes later as he was at the mcdonalds. Just a few blocks away eating lunch. He said when he arrived officer. Rick miller who'd also heard the dispatch pulled up at the same time as he did and they both found tanya lane outside officer petty testified that he left on your miller stairs in the entry room and went upstairs and saw yvonne face down on the ground with a dresser and tv tipped on top of her. That's when he ordered miller to call a supervisor and detectives glove voice on this one. I'll be playing clips like this one from a unease dead again investigation on david's case they actually recreated the crime scene and had investigators go in and start from scratch. There's just a massive amount of blood river face little right here. Petty testified that a von was clearly dead laying there motionless in a pool of blood and he described her as looking pasty white. Unfortunately i do not have any court audio of anyone describing the scene just transcripts reports and photos of crime scene photos show yvonne in white shorts and a white long sleeved shirt the white making the red blood pooling around her even more striking. Her body was facing the stairs her feet pointing towards the dining room behind her. It looked like someone had tipped a dresser over which would have landed on a vaughn's body but it got caught on a baby walker. That was between it and of on the tv was on top of her and her head was tangled in the cords between her legs plant and a photo of an unknown child. A razor blade. Once police flipped her body over they could clearly see her throat had been slit a gaping eight by four inches tall. She's got a net one very clean cut. There's nothing jagged on it just yet is katie credit article. Blood splatter was on the walls and couch facing the couch. The left arm also had a pool of blood on it near the sliding door to the balcony was a large streak of blood on the floor leading towards von. Like a drag mark murphy. There look like jaguar xe from the bottom of for feet and there were splatters of blood dripping down the glass doors. Windows go everywhere. It was a gruesome crime scene and it was also strange. Not only her kids. They're unharmed but outside on the porch there were a couple of puppies huddled together. Vons german shepherd mix snaps had recently given birth. There are photos of these puppies looking inside through the blood splattered glass door. It's a jarring sight looking at the crime scene photos. The dining room is also striking to me. The dining table had to chairs at it and to me. It looks like two people had recently been sitting there. Both chairs are pushed out and slightly turned away from the table. As if two people sitting there had just pushed away and gotten up. I can also see a pack of cigarettes closer to the left side of the table but the lighter is in the middle as though people were sharing it. When officer petty came up the stairs he saw bloody footprints between him and the body. The blood looked mostly dry. He said so he. An officer miller decided to walk through the crime scene. No shoe coverings and check the residents for a murder weapon or killer. That's when officer. Rick miller found preston and brandon in their bedroom. The door locked from the outside petty said he went to the third floor and found trenton in his crib. All the children were unharmed. Petty said that about ten minutes later after he and miller arrived chief doria arrived and made his way to the second floor with a woman that petty didn't know i was not law enforcement. Chief doria said she was a ride along but in a book written about the case the author says it was actually his date and he not only took this woman to the house but he allowed her into the crime scene. Petty testified that they decided they needed to get the kids out of the house immediately so he and miller with the help of chief doria tried to do so without forcing the kids to see their dead mother but there was no way to get out of the house without walking by and pretty much over oven so petty said that he miller took a blanket from the third floor bedroom and covered on body with it again. He said the blood seemed pretty dry so he wasn't worried about smearing any evidence then he said the officers picked the kids up and walked them over. Vons blanket covered body out of the house. I asked pressed in who was six at the time what he remembered from that night into the morning. All the dark outside a my mom mainly learn obeyed. Sheriff says. Lock the door about a couple of inches away from the door handle And i'm not scared. They're still no giving the dark anywhere. So i ran back up stairs and lock the door and i told rios and We went to bed Game brain will bear kim pro somewhere in the new night. And you always charlie gal the row and we have a latch on the inside the door and outside of the door and usually our own from outside the it was and he kept pounding on the door and came to answer so then He's crown. So i just grabbed him and i took to. My son went back to sleep so when we woke up police officers. Were there whole bunch. People who were inside dow's now i would understand why the police might shield children from the crime scene. That makes sense but it doesn't explain why so many decisions were made that compromised evidence in a murder investigation. The fact that chief doherty is date a civilian was allowed into the crime scene. That officer petty walked around without shoe coverings that he put a blanket on a body potentially contaminating evidence on both her and the blanket. There is even a crime scene photo that actually shows and after stepping over the body leaving a bloody footprint between her legs. I thought maybe these were oversights. In part by the officers worrying so much about getting the children out of the house without seeing their mother's dead body so i asked preston about it and the police said they carried you and covered your mom with a blanket. You all the time only come cover bring walk past very shortly after the kids were removed from the house. Detectives john leech. Lloyd samson and bill macklowe arrived and ordered patrol officers petty and miller out. I beg your thing. I've always learned. Is you have to preserve the scene So the evidence doesn't get contaminated or destroyed. This is detective muko in a two thousand eight deposition so on a murder homicide of scenario with the first thing we do is call the star county crime lab and they spend over technician to go over and do the initial collecting and fingerprinting crime scene techs and the coroner arrived and the investigation began. It's worth mentioning. That animal control also came and took a vons dogs from the crime scene. Detectives collected bedsheets pillow cushions and couch coverings scrapings and swabs of blood from the living room and stares kitchen knives sections of flooring with bloody footprints opened coke cans from the bedroom and kitchen a marlboro cigarette. Pack and cigarettes. From the kitchen table a lighter unopened condoms and penthouse magazine's from avant bedroom and two packages of swisher sweets cigars detectives also lifted and preserved fingerprints from the coke cans and also a glass on the table. A tip also led them to a large kitchen. Butcher knife matching set. They'd found in a vons kitchen. A few blocks away and that knife had a print on it outside. Neighbors and family members crowded the seen a newspaper article from the time described a neatly. Manicured lawn splashed with children's toys and a red sandbox cordoned off by yellow police tape by now of ons father. Sherman had arrived as head. fred cameron. That's the father of eric cameron. The on again off again boyfriend mentioned last episode. who fathered three of avant children at about five pm. A neighbor walked by the bustling crime scene and stopped to talk to officers in his police. Report officer samson noted that twenty year old george hale told officers that at about nine thirty or ten am that morning. He was walking to mcdonald's the same one. Just a few blocks away that officer petty was taking lunge at when he noticed a vons house. The witness had heard the puppies barking and looked over. Here's samson reading. His report advised. He saw a white male five foot nine hundred and eighty pounds in his mid to late twenties wearing blue jeans and a short sleeve shirt with medium length hair exit the resins carrying a garbage bag. The white male walked around the west end of the house. He said it did not look like anything. Out of your any kept. Walking samson noted this in his report and that was it detectives. Were also canvassing. the neighborhood. The neighbor across the street said she saw von on the night of the thirty first. She said vom with outside around five thirty. Pm crushing soda cans talking to a forty year old white man about five seven in a plaid shirt with curly graying hair detectives were doing other preliminary interviews as well. Detective muko said he tried to speak with tanya and it was just. I know it was a tough time and address. Extract information about who you von was hanging around. You know what context you had. You know what happened prior and you know just just basic information on her daughter and yeah. She wasn't too much help at all. I mean she was just the best way to describe as like a zombie. she just wasn't she wasn't there. I mean every time. I had contact with her as she was the same way. It was just like a show of a person eventually. Tanya and sherman left with all four boys wall in the car tanya said that she asked vinnie who hurt mommy thinking that since he was walking around the house he may know something although he is intellectually disabled. The you're old said. He saw a josh jimmy or jeremy. Push mommy when they got home. Tanya said she called david thorne's grandfather and told him to tell david what happened and she said to have david come pickup. Two year old brandon. The son he shared with vaughan. She testified that david was already supposed to pick up brandon that day. If you remember from last episode. When david the news he was at work his grandfather call. Tim i ask what is it you need to do. He's like i need you to go for her. Parents often pick brandon because there and that police and everything else. So i mean. I just put my boss assan right there i was like i gotta go and i'm i'm hap- explaining what's going as i'm walking out the door and following out to the car so you know the niceties whatever he's me now call and say what's going on when you find out something. David said. He left work around two to go pick up brandon. Shoot over to get there. I walk in the house. Dad's coming up out of the base. It with a load of laundry passed in his tania's they have like a bi-level house whenever i walk into the room. Make up straight through her seat crying. I started talking to what's going on and you know she could only tell me what it is. That was so. David said to let him know what was going on and he took brandon home. However brendan was just in his diaper remember he was put to bed and then his mom was murdered and so he wasn't wearing clothes or pajamas. Pagano diaper and a single. They didn't have. They didn't have any clothes for him though. Because you know you didn't you didn't live there. I went out to the car. I got a blanket and a little coat. That i had was just stuff in the car that i had with the terrorist after next brought him home. What were you thinking when all of this went down like what was going through your head i mean. I can't even imagine low. Whenever i initially got the call and then i go over and i take him up. I mean just like shock and awe. It's like it's not even real like something has to be wrong you know. I mean i can't be true and then the realization of it coming into this. It actually happened. I mean i felt bad for the family and of course for my son sue glass for members that day to who are you. And how'd you get involved in the case. I was a friend of the family in that. I worked in the town that they lived in and it was really small town and worked as post office where they have them and i thought david here and there i knew who was. I've spoken to him a couple times. I've been to his sister's wedding. And when his grandmother came in in nineteen ninety nine and i she came in immediately and and she was being and she asked me if i if she can speak privately and i side with her and she told me ubon debt and i said well who's giovane and she said that's brand. Is the mother holy crap. You know how. She said she was murdered. And i i mean you could have just knocked me over. Didn't know anybody who's ever been close to a murder case sushi so david on the way to the police department right now. She told me while she was at the post office. And she said. I said what's going on. And she said he they wanna have him to give a statement and he's going down to speak and so. This is where the case against. David starts to unfold lately. I have really been trying to optimize my health. And well cut down on drinking and exercise more and so part of that has been taking vitamins. And i absolutely love my care of vitamins. Care of vitamins. Come in daily individually wrapped packets that are perfect for getting back into or starting a routine all of carol's products are formulated with good for you clean ingredients. That are back by science now here. One of my favorite things about care of is that it is customized to me. You take care of in depth online quiz but few questions about your diet. Lifestyle and health concerns to help address your specific wellness goals. The quiz gives you a tailored approach to your unique health needs and you can retake the quiz at any time as your goals change. I absolutely love this and all of caros products are formulated with good for you clean ingredients. That are backed by science. Care of makes it easy to declutter your cabinet and replace a mess of bottles with a dispenser of convenient daily vitamin pacts. Honestly i love this in new york city. We have very little storage space so having care of vitamins all put together and a personalized pocket for me. Fantastic for fifty percent off your first care of order to take care of dot com and enter code alliance fifty for fifty percent off your first care of order. Go to take care of dot com and enter code alliance fifty. Pay all if you listen to. My podcast unjust an unsolved. You might be familiar with the wrongful conviction case of genie snow. And i wanna tell you. About jamie's own podcast. The snow files jamie has been in states ville prison in illinois for nearly thirty years serving a life without parole sentence. He was convicted of murdering bill little young teenager working at a gas station on easter sunday. Nine hundred ninety one jamie to this day. Says he is innocent. And i believe him and so if you heard my podcast i want you to know that jamie actually has his own. Podcast told by himself from prison and he not only tells his story but interacts an answer. Questions i adore jimmy snow. He is a funny smart fun caring man and father and he knows his case better than anyone. It is truly a rarity to get to hear. The story told by the person who is convicted. You'll laugh you'll cry and you'll be shocked like i was by the misconduct in jamie's case i am thrilled to be able to promote jamie's podcast the snow files right here right now. His co host. Bruce fisher tammy alexander and leslie pires season. One was a deep dive into the trial evidence. New witnesses and taped interviews never before revealed and season two which has just released focuses on the forensics post conviction investigation and new evidence. Each episode is bi weekly and you can find it at snow files dot net and exclusive for murder alliance listeners. You can email 'em a at snow dot net with the subject line m. i. a. to be entered to win a snowfalls hoodie of your choice. Style and color. All entries will receive a free. Snow files wristband entries must be received by may thirty first twenty twenty one again. Jamie is an amazing human. It is absolutely tragic. What has been done to him and his family for thirty years. Take a listen to the snow files. Get to know jamie and see how you can help. David went down to the police station. The day after amman was found as one von's recent ex-boyfriends and one of the fathers of her five. It's reasonable detectives. Wanted to speak with him. Ask his see what he knows about. Who any suspects could be. But that's not what happened. Actually david's grandfather had hired david a lawyer. he was smart and didn't want david to be railroaded except unfortunately the grandfather's good intentions seemed to have backfired in more ways than one. The day of on was found. The police went over to david's grandparent's house to question david. David wasn't home but they wound up speaking with his grandfather. It seems like they already knew that von had fairly recently asked to pay child support because they were asking about money now remember. David's dad died by suicide when he was five when that happened. David inherited a decent chunk of money from his dad. Who had money from the military. David's grandfather was good with money so he had david invest it so the money was growing and it was a lot but that's not what david's grandfather told the police. If you have money problems or something like that they have the grandfather while the grandfather is all about preserving your wealth she knew good and well the david had thirty five thousand dollars investment accounts but they told he told the police broke because he didn't want them to take money. I'm sure david grandpa was trying to help. But men did it backfire. Now and the police's mind. They had motive that he didn't want to h because he didn't any money. The police then told david's grandfather to have david call them immediately. After the police left. David's grandfather called a lawyer for david realizing what kind of situation his grandson was in the next day david did as he was told and called the police and went down to the station with his lawyer. I all of a sudden they're asking me how our relationship was. You know. I was at and everything and so i said i'm here to help you. And they said yeah. How help you. And i'm like little. I need help ward right then. David's lawyer shut the interview down. And because of this the police labeled david as uncooperative. They also found him suspicious again because his grandfather trying to help him samson mentioned in a supplemental report that david's grandpa signed an avid david asking for immunity. Apparently david's grandfather thought it was possible. Amy david's girlfriend. Had murdered of on. He was aware of amien. Avant history was trying to protect david without david's knowledge or permission on a court document. David's grandpa wrote quote. This was a blanket. Immunity per attorney lenz and quote and that release fields david's fate as the person of interest and allegedly broke single dad who has to pay child support and lawyers up after his ex girlfriend and the woman. He has to pay child support to is murdered. Oh and he's also looking for immunity. I know you know but your grandpa. he really unintentionally to you. And i mean it's just like you know with the money thing and then the immunity thing i mean how did you. How did you feel towards your grandpa when you kind thought back on some of this stuff i did not house react to it. I mean i was mad at him. We argued over it but it was already said done. I mean there wasn't much i could do the time about it. Did you ever hold a garage about it. I mean just certain extent. everybody holds a grudge. Whenever somebody screws them over for something that i mean i kinda figure that you know it was coming from a place of love but you know you'll advised in not knowing 'cause none of us had ever been arrested gone through anything like this. I mean how do you act however all of this was just one day after the murder. There was still a ton of investigating do plus. It's not like david was the only x with a motive in advance life. Eric cameron is the alleged father of three of her kids. Maybe he found out about the affair between john and david or maybe he wanted custody. Here's detective samson being deposed again. So you remember Speaking would you. Speaking with eric cameron the father of three for did you yourself or just know that he. He was ruled out as a suspect because he was in jail. At the time. Eric was in jail so they went back to david. As i mentioned in the last episode by all accounts david novon were on good terms. Even a vons. Parents testified at trial. That david yvonne had an agreeable visitation schedule. David could take brandon whenever he pleased and david also had a solid alibi. The night of the murder. David was at his shoot fighting class with his lion cub. They couldn't put david there. Because david was taking martial arts class at night by three four towns away Every single wednesday night he had heard a couple of months and they knew where he was he had a lying within that night and so it was memorable to the people that were in the class that david even though both eric and david had police still zeroed in on david. They started questioning his friends. Maybe there was an accomplice co-conspirator so they interviewed two of his other friends. The guy that was living that nigerian another guy and tried to get them to say that they did it. It's worth noting that this isn't a path. They went down with. Eric eric's alibi apparently cleared him. David's alibi just meant he must have had help. They spoke to david's friend. Josh clark who was accompanied by his father in that interview. They specifically say to josh that they think david is suspicious. Because he won't talk to them. But josh said he was with david that night and david was just being cautious. So as not to get railroaded. The assured josh they would never frame an innocent person for murder and just wanted to talk to him then. They spoke to josh mccomb beach. Lead you to come down to the to station and we're just gonna take pictures of your car. you know. no no big deal like interrogated me. He tried to catch me up. You know he would ask me one question. That was you know. Like is your name. Josh mccomb and i would say get ready to say yes. And then he would say. Did you murder yvonne. And i had to like yes. The first washer not the second. Josh is a longtime friend of david's. He said that police were questioning him. Hard about the murder. So you're saying they've made attempts to get you to confess. Senior thing davis t emus preller. His mother was also with him. So that interview also ended so they found. Joe and joe is eager to please jogesh photos like a eighteen year old. Joe wilkes young kid. That didn't really have many friends. You know he was kind of the underdogs for the lack of a better word. Joe was a drifter he had an incredibly rough childhood. His biological father was abusive so he went into foster care. An allegedly his foster parents abused him emotionally physically and sexually. Joe had severe learning disabilities and emotional trauma. Did you guys know is other well. Yeah no i mean. I knew him and i him for quite a while. I was to him through some other friends. I met him at parties. You know through some mutual funds and everything and he lived approximately one and a quarter miles away from me. Joe eventually wound up homeless as a teen in one thousand nine hundred eighty seven or eight. Am i'm driving into town. I've seen him walking picking up taking in town. I've taken into work and he was. He was sleeping my car outside because his mom had kicked him out. I'd let him in. Hit sleep on the cavs at the time of the murder was actually staying with other friends over three months after the murder. Joe was brought in to the police station on july fourteenth. By this point the police had said on record that the case was cold. There were really no leads. They liked david for the murder but with his alibi there was nothing they could do. But as soon as they got their hands on joe they got a break. Always been talking. She was in that one was out of his life and that he could this little boy. And then i i for years. I've told them keep me out. Don't want nothing to do with it and we're going to jump and you saw money and then one day. I just lost everything i didn't about life. No more david new disney joe confessed. He said david had hired him to kill yvonne coming up next time on murder in alliance the on game online. Can you tell us. Your barton's was so funny. Data really child away for so. Why did they even want one day. So much money for today even save you pay you to do something for being. I keep thinking y'all if you like this show fleas consider joining the unjust and unsolved patron. It shows how much you care and helps us continue to tell these stories. Plus you get some awesome bonus episodes. Qna's and events as a. Thank you and please please. Rate emmer view the more reviews the more attention and the more likely. We're going to get tips and leads and the right ears will be reached. Murder in alliance is produced and reported by. Meet maggie freeling with editorial consulting from amber hunt. Aaron case is our legal intern. And bob mallory is our engineering assistant. For more information and resources go to murder in alliance dot com. You can find murderer on alliance on twitter and instagram at murder. Underscore alliance and joined the discussion on facebook at unjust an unsolved podcast discussion group. Murder in alliance is a production of the obsessed network. You can find all their shows at obsessed network dot com.

tanya david Tanya preston miller vons house petty brandon Petty David Rick miller von maggie freeling eric cameron jamie vons room doria yvonne tanya lane
Healthy Business Recipes for Surviving COVID

Cheers To Business

23:03 min | 6 months ago

Healthy Business Recipes for Surviving COVID

"Hello cheers business listeners. I'm ashley smith vice president of wholesale pharmacy for docker x. And listener of cheers to business. And i want to tell you about the great company. I worked for dr x. Is a family oriented company dedicated to taylor operational solutions for patient. Health and compliance programs that increases the quality and efficiency of centered care and always with the mission of the patients. Help i with over ten years of experience helping doctors and their patients with diagnostic tests patient monitoring medical supplies compliance wholesale pharmacy physician dispensing billing. A much more dr x. Is your patient and health compliance solution. Both under one brief to find out. How docker can help you your hospital. Pharmacy physician's offices. And any p p you need for your businesses. Please visit us at doc. Rx dot com that doc. Rx dot com d. o. c. r. x. Dot com now. Enjoy the show at this point. It's sad to see a lot of the mom and pops. That have gone out. So i think as long as you can kind of adjust to what's going on the best way possible. It's pushed all of us. You know not necessarily just restaurants but small business in general you know we are the backbone of this economy and now we are under pressure. I don't know how long we can sustain eating at a loss like this but it's a dream and it's a passion project in. It's something that. I am going to take out kicking and screaming like we are not giving up yet. We're just trying to innovate try to do something different and try to something different. If people keep talking about you know when things get back to normal. But i just don't know if things are ever going to get back to quote unquote normal where we were before. So it's time for people to dust yourself off pick yourself up by good strap and get together that or give up on your business and that's really all it boils down to. Just what are you going to do to make it half in preach preach it. I've been saying big everybody. Welcome to the show. Today we have voice superfoods garza. So we're gonna talk about a couple of things one supporting healthy to supporting local in three. What do you do when the business owner gets covid. Can you plan ford. Hey i'm karen. I'm a former. Cpa entrepreneur business consultant with big ideas. Welcome to tears to business. Liz guards thank you for being on the show. Thanks for having me. I'm super excited. I'm in quarantine but hey it wouldn't be twenty twenty without food without something like this happening. The first time that i've actually met year was at the start up mobile. do you remember that. actually do. Yeah i've got great memories Every year from start at mobile. It's such a great thing that the city does unfortunately this year because of we are we're not having startup but but yes we have been actively involved in every year when when the city does start at mobile yet. Pay wove outspending sponsored by year. And that's how we met. I know it. Yeah you you are such a just a a huge breath of energy. Of course i ever member meeting you and you always have such great business advice and so yes absolutely. Well thank you so liz. You have recently reconnected. At the mobile chambers roadmap for growth with rick miller as so much fun so great not such a good opportunity and i'm just so glad that Dinette at the chamber and rick. They worked their miracles To make this class happen it is kind of the a new version of a a leadership program that the city the chamber as well through south alabama university mobile. Some great sponsors came together to to make it happen. And it's for a business owners like you and i to come together to plan for what's to happen in twenty twenty one. Were planning strategizing literally coming into a situation. That's been unprecedented right. We don't know how to handle this or move forward so it's so nice to have other individuals who are showing in the same struggle. But we've got like therapy when i need that class. I mean we we go. We share our successes in things that were struggling with. And it's just helping us to plan for the future for growth in my case with foy to kind of keep things afloat really talk about your food until with it. What the name foy means. So foyer is an acronym for fountain of youth and of course we are locally owned we are the first and only still fresh pressed juicery in mobile. We are here in the city mobile because there aren't many options like us right. We wanna make fast food simple affordable. Fresh we wanna make it easy for people and we wanna make people feel like they're coming in into community oriented environment liked. It's funny when especially downtown. I work downtown and so people are seeing each other. That will that they know. And just kind of there's a sense of family you're camaraderie. When i just feel that vibe when people come into foy you know. They're coming in for the food with their also coming in for the experience of just cheers. You know we're we're local. Everyone knows your name and your colleagues and that sort of thing. And i think it's a great thing because it transcends all agent gender and all this kind of thing because we have serve all walks ally i think right now being healthy and taking care of our bodies is at the forefront of everyone's mind and it definitely starts with your diet and yes roy is a quote unquote healthy restaurant. But i hate to to use. That are kind of always push that because people associate health food with either taste. Good or it's going to be super expensive but it's not. I think you're reasonably price. Yeah we definitely tried to stay competitive with our pricing on. Everything is customizable so we have add ons. You can have. Steak or salmon are chicken or a runny egg avocado like anything that we have is customizable. So you can. You can add onto things you've got case a d. as in salads and grain bowls and all types of different things We have a pretty large menu. Considering that we are just a fast casual kind of small eatery we tried to give people a nice variety and of course we pride ourselves on excellent customer service. It's it's always about the customer. We want the customer to to come back to feel appreciated to enjoy their food. Because it's made from scratch. It's made with love you on we just want to To be here for the long haul for our community because this is something that the citizens of mobile deserve. They deserve to have a place where. Hey i'm vegan vegetarian. i'm doing kito. You know all these different things that are going on if not place like ours. You're going to another place and having to modify menu items in pay probably double the price you know for for what you get from us at foy in till your website because i really like your website because it is straight to the point. I mean. it's very clear. What you mission is everything thank you. I'm so our website is boy. Superfoods dot com. We are actually going through a transformation right now. We have added to our team. I've got a guy. Who is revamping my entire website. So that that website that you're looking at now is something that i created on square up with elijah platform for right and it is great. It's it's done as job at served. Its purpose but now we are pivoting and you know we're trying to adjust with everything else that's going on with with the times and so we need to get online ordering in there. We need to get more of like a contactless way for people to download an app or log onto our website place in order and they can do curbside pickup. A choose delivery option. You know those sorts of things just to save time and to have less contact right now. People i would say honestly like eighty percent of our business is now shifted to take out. I mean last year at this time for was packed and we were busy in. Our dining room was full but of course with all the restrictions We've had to adjust patch adjusts. People are not back working so it's just a different approach time right now. We're doing what we can and still investing in the business and we're just trying to to stay relevant and to stay convenient for people because that's really what i think that they are looking for is yes. It's all finding great that they want good food but at the end of the day we all want it fast. Fresh wanted affordable. We want it convenient. And that's what we're trying to do is just stay at the top of people's minds when we when they think of health food. I want them to think foy. And so that's kind of what we're doing is just trying to push the brand more and make it easier for people to access our stuff. You know one thing about accounting which is my background. Everything has to balance. There's good there's bad there's pretty there's ugly are the live in the world just doesn't work and the bad was the shut down and your reduction of customers the positive the good of it is forcing people to revamp and go in a different area. I may do you see this as necessarily a totally bad thing. That's happened to the restaurant field. You know what at this point. It's sad to see a lot of the mom and pops that have gone out. Fortunately for for me you know with my background. I'm tech savvy young. I'm kind of in the know. So i think that as long as you can just kind of adjust to what's going on the best way possible. The no it's not always gonna be negative thing but it's definitely pushed me to think outside the box. It's pushed all of us. You know not necessarily just restaurants but small business in general you know we are the backbone of this economy. We are the ones that are donating to timmy's t-ball team and all sorts of things and now we are under pressure. You know in this is a situation of. I don't know how long we can sustain of operating at a loss like this but it's a dream and it's a passion project in. It's something that. I am going to take out kicking and screaming like we are not giving up yet you know. So we're we're just trying to innovate and try to try to do something different and try to offer something different. Just as an example. I talk about like a vertical adjacent possible for foy and one of the things that we're thinking about right now is a saas line. I'm thinking okay. Well people come in the love. Our salad dressings in our sauces. They're always asking if they can buy it. I'm like well. What if i were to partner with a local retailer greer's piggly-wiggly whole foods. Whoever it is to retail are saas another revenue stream. That would help to get the brand out any i would buy. It would not necessarily when we wouldn't rely on people coming in the door in other words to our restaurant to kind of create that other revenue streams. So that's just one of the things that we're working on right now but if people keep talking about you know when things get back to normal but i just don't know if things are ever going to get back to quote unquote normal where we were before. So it's time for people to dust yourself off and pick yourself up by the straps in and get it together that or give up on your business you know and that's really all it boils down to just what are you gonna do to make it happen. Preach preach it. I've been saying this is life. Down is gonna adapt but you gotta do something differently. You're gonna get the same results. I'm a girl. I always try to eat healthy so katy takes me all the time and the food is so good when you have a healthy daughter. Does she tries to get you to eat healthy. Which i should and your food is so good. I love where. I came from telit lease. Yes so quick shot katie because she is like talk about a body goals actually chase great. There's like a walking billboard for roy but yes so voice started really honestly in my mother-in-law's kitchen my husband. John who was my business partner. He's a type one diabetic and both of us come from a family. History of obesity related disease. So cancer diabetes heart disease. I mean you name it. It's in our family. i'm hispanic. He's african american and those things. Just kinda play really everyone right now our society and so we've traveled. You know i went to grad school out of state. And so did he. And we live in big cities where places like were readily available. There were options like this for people who wanted to have fresh fast food and so we saw an opportunity. Both fresh grad school really hadn't figured out exactly what industry we were gonna go in and decided to take a and you know we kind of treat it like a business project at school. At the beginning it was just talk i'm planning and and then We were at art. Walk on friday walking down the street and saw for sign at our building and reached out to the phone number that was on their rocard. A sweet deal. And i mean we started the construction little by little and that's how it was born. I mean it was just kind of something that we thought up. Neither of us have ever worked in a restaurant before have zero experience like not even high school job at a restaurant. So i like to joke about you. Know we went through the school of hard knocks. I mean we learned by bump in our head a couple of times and figuring things out but we've developed a process got a great team and that's just kind of honestly how i'm able to to quarantine right now is thanks to my team. You know relying so heavily on on them to see us through these couple of days. Where i'm just not around but it's also i opening to be like well i actually don't have to be around as much because things are still functioning just fine so it's good to know. I mean if you do your job you should not be needed as a business owner. Ish should want to walk out you. If everything is dependent upon you if you go down the businesses done was there any. You could have planned for. Y'all to be quarantined to not be able to go to your restaurants. You know what i hear. People that have small businesses especially restaurants like mine. Talk about how as a small business. We don't have the infrastructure you know we If i'm not around nothing happens. But no i mean. I think it's important not to let your business work. You you know and to enter always managed to have great people in place and to take care of your employees. I think that they are more apt to wanting to to come to work. If it's a positive work environment you know. They've all bought into the culture that we've created at foy about you know our our one of our taglines is good vibes only in that translates from the customer. All the way to the employees. You not wanna make sure that the staff is happy and that they're well taken care of. I mean they all know me if they need something you know it's like i have twelve other children because i take care of my staff. You know if. I can anything i can do to help amount. My answer is always gonna be yes. And i've worked right alongside of them so listen to wash dishes taking out the trash cooking the food. I've done it all because we started just with us and so knowing the process i think has allowed us to train people in a way that allows us to be able to step back. I'd like to say we were stepping back because we were taking a vacation or something but now i mean we're we're quarantine. My husband tested positive for covid. He's a symptomatic. Thank god and me. And i've got two children. Were all stuck in the house. Today is day six and You know going a little cuckoo with the kids but otherwise thankfully you know healthy happy. Everyone's doing well and the business is is open. Everything is still running. Johnny and now we're talking earlier. He knows one. That's it's only two people that work one owns it and works on the other one works there and one guy covered the other one had to quarantine that business shutdown for fourteen days so the financial impact of not being ready for something like this. You know. I won't every listener right now. You know look at your business. Do you have a plan in place. If you go down you know and you may be fine. God forbid anybody had the symptoms are go in the hospital. But it doesn't matter if you don't feel back your business still going to be candid. Continue without you now. I think the important message for us to get out today. What else about foy in about what you and your husband are doing. Would you like the listeners. To know i just want people in our community to know that we're here for you that we're not going anywhere and that we work hard every day to create the best product for you and that you are always at the center of everything in our plan. Is you the customer that we appreciate you that we know your name. We know your kid's name. We support your kid's soccer team. You know work here in the community and that people like us foy and other small businesses other restaurants need you. We're depending on you to stay open. You know it's a little frustrating to me. When i drive by and see starbucks or mcdonald's and they're causing traffic jams because the line is so long to get in there and on the flip side of this i think of like i said i've lived in bigger cities before and there's so much to do. There's so much culture so much character when you go to these cities and you visit their downtown locations seeing mom-and-pop thai restaurants and just cool different low concepts m people in mobile are quick to be like well. We don't have those things in mobile. So we're going to travel to new orleans we're going to travel to atlanta or so forth to to be able to experience these things but we are here there. Are things like this in our community but in order for us to stay alive and to keep things going so that we're not all you know a year from now looking at each other crazy eating at applebee's or whatever places like foy need the community support. We need everyone to rally around us in order for us to stay open. you know. we're here. Like i said we have a responsibility. Not only to our community to be here mature staff. I've got twelve individuals who work for me the have families of their own that i feel a huge sense of responsibility because they've taken care of meat that off these years. I wanna take care of them but it all just working together you know it. We all have to come together as a community. I think to support small business otherwise that a year from now. We're all going to be looking at each other like what happened to downtown mobile. You know we're on such a great trend right now of so many different cool little boutiques and art galleries and restaurants. And there's so much to do right now if you walk around the city just five years ago. It didn't look this way but we don't actually support what's going on. We're gonna be right back at square one that it was so well said i'm just gonna leave that right there for that to sink in two people. You have to support what you want. I so how do people find you. Where are you and what time do you open. Because i'm really hungry. And i'm downtown so we open monday through saturday. The only day were closed sunday. Monday through saturday from eleven to five. We are kind of. We modified our hours because covid because of things of slow down for us just to kind of put things in perspective. We're operating right now at about fifty to sixty percent less than what we would have been Operating at a a year a year away from last year you know in other words but yes so. We're open from eleven to five monday through saturday. We've got two locations. We are downtown. I'm in the heart of the swear on dauphin street and we also have a location on west mobile we are at airport in hillcrest out in piccadilly swear and both locations are easy to access you can get in and out we do call ins just in case you know for people who are are not wanting to necessarily come dine in and we are at voice superfoods on all social media. We're super active on social media. We post things like for example. We had tomorrow's choco tuesday. We had for black friday. You know you come in and get a free order of energy balls in these things you all you find out on social media way way we anyhow a woulda energy bills so our energy Are they are our most popular snack. They are peanut butter protein packed energy balls. We call them so they come five to an order and their five bucks. They are about one hundred calories of all and they are so good. They're peanut butter but they're makes dark chocolate chips. And they've got cranberries Flaxseed chia seed in all types of good stuff that's all rolled up into into these little balls and they're great for snacking kind of throw them in your purse and just have them at work in your fridge or car. That kind of thing If you're getting hungry and you don't want to just read snickers bar or you know go through the drive through and get some nine months at nuggets. Hold you over to have a healthier snack Protein packed so they kind of keep. Keep you satisfied. I was stuck at home with small. Kids can't go out and see your businesses. Is there anything you can give cheers to. Oh gosh cheers to. I got to have thanksgiving dinner in my pajamas. That was dropped off by my in laws. Which was great yeah. I don't know if i'll ever wanna do thanksgiving the same again. Now you know sitting around to thanksgiving my pajamas. I'm gonna do a cheers to that. Will cheers to you and resilience and giving up and sticking by your staff. I'd big cheers to that cheers java. Here's liz thank you so much for coming on the show and you heard everybody go support the local that you want to keep you want to keep this one. Please be sure to subscribe to cheers to business. Podcast on itunes or anywhere else that you get your podcast visit our facebook and be sure to give us a like and if you have any questions or topics you'd like us to discuss. Shoot us an email from the website. Cheers business dot com.

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The Future of Higher Education Post-COVID with Lee Edwards

Venture Stories

48:56 min | 1 year ago

The Future of Higher Education Post-COVID with Lee Edwards

"Hey everybody it's Eric. Torbert co-founder Partner village global aid network driven venture firm and this is Metro Stories. A podcast covering topics related to tech business with world leading experts. Everybody we're now accepting applications for network catalyst accelerator program founders in. Our Program have gone on to raise money from LUX sparked a sixteen Z. Slow First Round Susa homebrew Maveron obvious and affects signifier and many more learn more at apply at village global dot V. C. Slash network catalyst. Everybody welcome to another episode adventure stories by global here today joined by a very special guest returning guest longtime friend. Lee Edwards of root of leap. Welcome back to the PODCAST. Thanks so much pleasure. So the first time we talked we talked with Nicole Quin last time. We talked a hard tech with a TRAE SALLOW. And today we are here to talk about higher education So before we get into what's happening In higher education the AGE OF COVA. Did I. I WANNA ask of. What got you so excited about this topic when you trace your intellectual journey a little bit. Yeah I mean honestly when I was in Highschool Olin College was In its first year they were just starting to college and the whole value. Prop like the the thing that sent out to. All the students for marketing material was like help us build this college. We're trying to do things differently and let that message really resonated with me. I think it's like a kid with. I like a kind of a mixed mixed background in high school. I tended to like not really like the kind of lecture format of things in the memorization and tests and stuff like that and kind of did a lot better in classes where I was getting my hands dirty and kind of like actually being a little more self guided so that's I ended up not getting in the first year and then getting into Olen when I replied and it's a college that is constantly kind of like investigate or kind of like Crossing itself in trying to figure out how did things differently. How to improve things and actually like co developing courses Especially in his early years. Stay you can't help but go to Olen and then come out. Having spent a lot of time thinking about education. What's what works. And what doesn't earliest your opinions of those things. So it's just kind of been like a an interest of mine since then and before you went down this rabbit hole. Sir Post covert. What's happening pre Kobe? What were your opinions of of what needs to change or what was messed up. What was yeah so like every sentence I say in this we should. We should like pretend. There's a caveat that says like this is not the opinion of Olin College of Engineering and I don't even know they'll be upset. I'm doing this without talking to them. Mostly but I do think particularly with engineering and this is kind of even more true. Like ten fifteen twenty years ago just a lot of focus on math and science fundamentals which are really useful for a certain kinds of applications of engineering. I mean I think if you're going into like aerospace there's just a ton of math and physics in your typically GonNa end up with before you start building engine turbans for airplanes but for lot of other folks like people that are writing software even just like people building consumer hardware stuff or electronics. Like honestly a lot of people are self taught. I know some and we all know very impressive. Software engineer is that you know went to school for Music or philosophy Or didn't go to college and actually have even met people like intellectual jeering. That never studied that stuff formerly who are really amazing and so their tails like. There's a disconnect there right like is college really serving people by delaying long until they get their hands on things like so many mechanical engineering undergrad degrees. You don't get to go into the shop like until near the end sometimes because of size sometimes of level of risk tolerance and mostly I think just because the curriculum doesn't mandate take a bunch of thermo take statics dynamics and then learn how to cut some at all like sure. That's an elective really. Are you going to be a mechanical engineer? Without knowing how to actually fabricate that's one and then I guess there's a whole other set of hot takes that are sort of more political around like while on one side of the spectrum. I I I definitely believe in kind of the access and equity in education like we're seeing Lots and lots of loans and scholarships need based scholarships out there that are available but still. Don't think it's enough. It's still clear that we have a stratified class structure in this country and part of that is about opportunity access to education really at all levels and then I think the other side of the spectrum. I can buy their argument around. Group think of higher education often the sort of like every tower walled garden of it and some of the criticisms about tenure which Owen doesn't have tenure and that was kind of one of the original precepts. So that's what the trade offs of of not having tenure tyler. Cowen has long said that they should. We should get rid of Sanyo. Lazy or not innovating or you. Yeah it's interesting. I mean I think the original impetus behind tenure is a good one which is sort of you think about the original higher education institutions. They were supposed to be the sort of like ivory tower in good way kind of like bastions of knowledge and trying to make them resistant to the swings in politics. I think ironically the idea of professors not being able to be cancelled in kind of the twenty twenty definition of the word cancelled. Now we're seeing that kind of reverse but originally the idea being like. Yeah so you want to study the nineteen fifties in America and you want to study and teach Socialist Economic. Theory your tenure. You can't really get fired. You get yelled at constantly but you can't get fired and I think that's a good thing but on the other hand like the idea behind. Olen is it's a very teaching centric college and I do think that if you stop carrying about teaching if it's just sort of reviewed and sort of you know if there's sort of this objective conclusion that you're not performing as an instructor as a teacher. There should be ways to sort of do performance reviews and bringing someone else who is sort of better more passionate more effective in that environment. So I think you know it depends on depends on the institution. I guess in kind of what their goals are th. There's didn't to what's happening now. It's guessing because you're on the board of Sushi here more but increments less than I am. What when I say Bergdahl I think. Sort of covert is the perfect opportunity for that because people are because people can't be physically on campus. They're paying a lot of money for an online education that they can elsewhere. Get for free a much cheaper and so they're realizing it really is about the credential or about the network which they can also get in other ways because they're not on campus and This is hitting Colleges budgets left and right and so what does that mean. Leave this for much more nuanced perspective with what's happening. Yeah so I mean I think in the very immediate term clearly what's happening it's campuses being shut down Folks that I've been talking to at Olin and elsewhere are sort of expecting or at least preparing for a semester or two Being shut down it seems like a lot of folks are preparing for that. I think part of that is just colleges. They're sort of by their nature a little more conservative and risk averse. They kind of have to be right there. Taking like you're taking your eighteen year old kids and being responsible for their lives and You know it would be a huge problem like just in terms of like human life and also financial liability and brand hit if they're an outbreak at a college so I expect them to be a little more conservative than most places. So yeah WH- evidently what they're doing is going online and what's kind of interesting is there are a lot of schools that have been doing online education for a long time and sometimes their online education is a lot of them. I think is actually quite good. I've taken some Stanford online courses that were actually really awesome and clearly very custom built for the curriculum. They were teaching others are sort of being forced online and having to figure it out and then other is sort of their online education is kind of a money maker and a second class to sink within school so. I think that a lot of colleges are also aware of the fact that not everyone is sort of Down for paying higher education level prices for a Webinar. And what's really interesting is. Would that release of online content and actually y combinator has been doing the same thing where they basically say our experiences so valuable the network that you build in person and just the experience of being immersed being around other people is so valuable that will give the content away for free. 'cause it's not about coach and now now they're saying actually you should pay. Us THIRTY GRAND A YEAR FOR THE CONTENT. And so it's kind of an interesting congruency in my mind and Owen is an interesting place where we've sort of always said that the content is novel and the courses were teaching are not taught anywhere else and most of them are hard to do online. And there's certain things that you know you can't you? Can you can teach calculus online over a Webinar. You can probably exit that class and know how to do Calculus. It may be less fun for you but then there are certain things that you can't do online like machine shop or maybe you could send people drill press and and hope they don't get hurt at home but So I think that everyone that I've talked to in higher education again at Owen. Elsewhere is definitely aware of that risk and they also worry about deferments As a result. If you're graduating high school right now are you thinking about you. Know I defer year take a gap year And then come back when classes are on campus again. I think you know I don't know what the sort of prevailing outcome is there for me personally. That would have been an attractive option to me. But you're going to see some amount of this of acceptance deferrals and so it's going to be kind of weird about that. I talked about twitter. Earlier is like when you're trying to fill a class and colleges accepting a certain number of students they want. They want a freshman class with. Call it a thousand students because know their number of faculty staff the size of the dorms Like all the facilities dining hall like they have kind of carrying capacity and so they basically know their acceptance rate and they sort of multiply that number of offers we give out time acceptance rate maybe minus some buffer so they can use the wait list. That number is going to be out of whack this year. Nobody knows what it's going to be and then you're GONNA end up with a ton of people on a weightless probably in the next year. What is that number end up being? So there's a lot of like little. I'm only catching a glimpse of right. But I think there's a ton of Minutia of college administration that is just being turned on. Its head right now for something so many of these schools just kind of operate the same way. There's a lot of just like well established. Well understood you can get a degree in college administration kind of processes that are now kind of having to be rethought. What's going to happen on? Is it just going to be a pause and come back usual or locking to go out of business? And what happens with the dominance year? Walk us through how that works. Yeah so one thing that's interesting about endowments like there's been a lot of discussion about this recently obviously with the The P P P in Harvard. Getting a nine million dollar loan from the government and folks pointing out that their endowment is somewhere around fifty billion fifty nine billion. Maybe so there's a lot of ways to think about this. I think that a school like Harvard. They've and certainly say Yale. A lot of the huge schools have many billions of dollars in endowment. And there's a lot of me wants to bat so one is That's not the money they have to spend the purpose of an endowment is this college should last forever so there it's invested. There's good investment managers. The person who manages the endowment is one of the best endowment managers of any kind nonprofit college anywhere. His returns are through the roof and They draw far far less than that. So the College of that size might draw one. Two to three percent at the most endowment and maybe seventy five percent of the budget is covered by that a much smaller. School may flip that around and maybe only twenty. Five percent of the budget is is covered by the endowment. But then there's another interesting nuance which is the dominant actually multiple endowments and if you graduate from college. Gift money to your school. A Lotta Times folks will put a note on it. That's like this is for the library. This is for the museum or a large might come in and say I'm dropping ten million dollars. It's to build a new dorm with my name on it and Those indictments art your mart and have to stay that way. So there's going to be a weird thing happen anywhere when you see that. Harvard is freezing. Pay Or pay increases rather for their staff. A lot of folks are GonNa look at that and go like well. The Chapel still open up you know on. The sports team is still operating. Or you know why the schools were offering I'm especially worried about some of the schools surviving and shirt. Maybe the people who didn't want those things to exist are gonNA get. I think there's huge turmoil in everyone's kind of bracing for that impact right now to talk more about how you see your not just post co bid. You know a year from now but five years now The college landscape really Shaping really evolving. And if you you mentioned you you don't or can't invest in right now but let's say you were doing. He's dedicated fund so lead to focus on the future higher education. What would be your requests for start ups or or with interesting. Where would you be looking? Yeah totally yeah and again. I should reiterate the hot take the reader at the the the disclaimer. That this is my hot take and not representative all and so. I think that Oland has done a really good job of. How do you make an engineering education? Much more real world and Outgoing president of Olin. Rick Miller just kind of planted a bug in my ear that I can't stop which is sort of. What is that on the liberal arts side and first of all? Yeah okay. That's not that interesting. But then as he started to describe it. There's so many folks that are really interested in like policy and politics philosophy. And what can we learn from literature and what we learn about human nature through theater and like all these things and there isn't a ton of like let's apply that directly to the real world and maybe that's okay. I mean I do think that higher education for a long time has been. Let's learn for the joy of learning. Let's learn to enrich ourselves and I do believe in that but I also believe in. Hey we've got you know. The people would s degrees trying to solve problems in the world and again my hot takes lots of people be mad at me for this people would be the degree degrees telling us. We're doing it wrong. And so I love to see kind of in the vein of Mark and recent essay. And maybe I want to approach it with a little less snark in. I guess judgment is one of these folks in a room right. So can we solve different problems? Like let's say with Kobe right in front of us right. How do we figure out how when we get out of social when we get out of lockdown into back into the world and businesses are slowly rolling open folks that have jobs like ours are going to get to work from home and as long as we want and we might stay safe for a very long time and then there's all these other folks that are GonNa go out in the city and work with their hands drive cars and drive trains like do this critical work nurses doctors and firefighters police officers and they're putting themselves in harm's way? Are WE GONNA end up in a situation. Where the second wave of Of Corona virus is going to have this massive economic disparity and social class disparity. It seems pretty obvious that it will so can folks like that getting room and kind of think about problems in the and I'm not saying that they don't and certainly this exists in lots of places but I think it would be fair to say that most colleges are not oriented around doing that with undergraduate students in these disciplines and certainly not tying them together with engineers and on the other side certainly engineers can benefit spending a lot more time with folks like that and again the traditional education model is departments and be as be as being different from bezos and graduate programs being different from undergraduate. So there's this intentional silo so I mean think that. That's a huge opportunity. That can have a ton of value for the world. And certainly aligning what? I think that there's so many different. There's so many problems with the way liberal like the folks who are the most in debt from college and not able to reach earning potential on the stem side often. It's much easier to find a high paying job on liberal arts style degrees. That can be a lot harder. And it's only getting worse and worse it's getting more expensive and the ability to find employment. It's harder so we could benefit a lot more alignment between. What does the world need? What is industry need? What does the economy need? And what are we teaching? And how do people get Jobs THAT WAY. And so certainly on the stem side Online education bootcamp stuff like that has has done a lot to move more people into stem and I think one of the cool things about the bootcamp model is it really is aligning. The demand industry would the supply of people. That will do it. There is not as much activity on sort of. What's the boot camp for an economics major? What's a boot camp for a philosophy major It's different from like. Let's just watch webinars online totally. Who who's Lincoln the interesting there today? You Think Lamm does fundamentally disruptive or or or who who else can today. Landis is very yeah very very cool model. I'm also really interested in Minerva schools which is a little bit closer to a traditional model. Then Lambda School is. I'm all your listeners. Know about lambda schools. I almost kind of glossed over it but lamm does they would not describe themselves bootcamp camp. I imagine because it is a little more mercer longer term program but they're very very focused on student outcomes and they're very very focused on social mobility than the big thing that everyone talks about with them is the income sharing model which basically makes it. So you don't have to have money up front to join the program you will graduate and then pay back and lots of press about that. That in my opinion has been very unfair About you know ways that That could land you in trouble. If you're pledging your future come to your college but I don't know in my mind is a asset allocators myself. This is a little bit of an argument about the kind of asset a debt versus say. The students themselves are very happy with the outcomes. Minerva schools actually. This is another one where they're going to be disrupted because a big part of Minerva is. They're taking students smaller classes and They put them in cohorts and they often will go around the world to different locations and they studied together and build community and they're working on all kinds of different things and it really does span everything from machine learning to linguistics Or you know pure math or philosophy so I think that there. I think that they actually have a very interesting approach. They're very new Not One hundred percent. Sure how long how old I WANNA say less than ten years. So that's an funny thing about this right. We talked about the long feedback cycles in venture capital talk about a feedback cycle when you take an eighteen year old Through a four year program. They're twenty two and then you want to track. Their lifelong outcome might have to wait about eighty years before he sorta or. Maybe let's say forty fifty years till they retire. So yeah it's always I think that's one. Let's say designer engineering challenge of trying to build a new educational institutions like. What's your feedback cycle in terms of being tied outcomes totally and I'm curious to get your perspective on what we're doing at. Ondeck it so on deck sort of you for the audience is a sort of Stanford Mba for founders or trying to be like that you know this year we're GonNa have thousands of people who've paid us you around US dollars So we'll be for a million dollars a year and People are having a great experience. So far it's mostly people who either have about their company or just starting to leave their company and overtime. We'll move sort of an essay model and I wonder how far we can take this idea. Stanford Mba for founders. Maybe maybe also for under undergraduates who say hey. I don't WanNa go to duke or whatever you know. Pay QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS TO BE Eventually I'd rather pay a hundred connects less that and use the rest of the money to invest in a business in my business. Like what would you be doing? If if you're on Dak or what questions would you? Would you be yeah well? I think it's I think I I didn't even mention that in the previous answer but I think disrupting the NBA. There's like some clear opportunity. There almost even just redefining the NBA as what it originally was and has gotten away from would be interesting which originally the NBA was explicitly. Let's turn engineers into people that can run businesses? It has gotten away from that and there. There are a lot of programs that you know that that is still there Their goal but a lot of MBA programs are fantastic at turning people into executives. Right like you look at a professional. Ceo that comes in and runs a multibillion dollar brand company or something they always have an mba or almost always But you look at founders an MBA programs have not done a great job of even say startup founders and certainly startup founders. That eventually do grow and being become the founding. Ceo POST IPO OF THESE BILLION DOLLAR COMPANIES? So yeah I mean clearly. There is an opportunity for teaching people how to start a business. that's not tens of thousands of dollars and almost explicitly about building network and signaling It's more tactical and more. Let's say I mean it can. It could still be about building relationships but a little more relevant to to what you're doing. I suppose I think one thing that you guys are certainly providing that is super valuable for anyone trying to get into startups in any capacity as a founder employer. Whatever is just sort of getting that network right. I think that folks have known you for a little while Eric. I of that. Like part of part of what you're trying to do with your life in general is to sort of lower those barriers and try to make people more accessible to each other. I think it's like one of the more rewarding things about venture capital is that you're kind of incentivized and you're given the space and time and ability to just sort of connect people go. You're you're working on this You're you're working on this. You guys should talk. Are you sorry to pull you to talk We get made fun of for that sometimes. Like oh you're silly connector but there is value in trying to reduce the exclusive exclusivity of networks and trying to democratize them So you know I think to the extent that you can build this community online in this way and how that's going to get easier and easier. I think both in terms of US getting used to having online communities and in terms of tools for building. Online communities improving. There's just so much more like in my mind. Social good to providing access to starting companies to people all over the country all over the world. decentralizing silicon valley since week. It's not a place. It's the mindset if colleges a bundle some combination of education network and credentials Online education has a somewhat on bundled the education part of it combined with sort of accountability network You think like why he hopefully object are starting to to get that although you know Stanford or Harvard is still great places to go over there and I think the last remaining part is the that we haven't really got started on as much as the credential and I think that Har- or to get at how do you think about the future of credential. Of course there's sort of you know. Vertical face you know Empl BOOT bootcamp style do camps you know growth camps etcetera specific skill based credentialing But there there isn't sort of like as broad and also legible credentialing paid. This is a really impressive. Well rounded person who went through a bunch of hoops and sixty eight. And you know Bain and McKinsey can trust that or whoever google at scale Maybe maybe it's a false premise. That we don't need to recreate that broad. Credential is just all sorts of micro vertical credentials. How do you think about the future? Yeah I mean. I think they're to talk. I guess all around the issue from different sides like I do think there is some utility credentialing in some sense right Just kind of the idea of like okay. You took these classes. You probably know these things. Let's interview further and find out more There's certain areas where like I suppose. A hospital wouldn't really be super interested in interviewing someone for a medical doctor role if they haven't gotten a degree Regardless of how regulations around licenses and stuff worked I think that would still be the case on the other hand like I think we've started to become exposed a little bit higher education credentials or sometimes just signifier of sort of where you come from not necessarily what you've sort of been through what you've learned And certainly I think that's one reason it's kind of amazing to see how big that story got around the fraud around. Sat scores just like one of the biggest stories of the last few years. And really that's all it was about was sort of cheating on credentials but it did. I think really kind of pulled a veil back and start making people think from an employer perspective side like I think certainly having been like CTO startups in hiring managers at startups and even like smaller public companies It's it's always the lazy way out to try to look at credential and I think when you kind of do on conscious bias training as part of hiring process one element you often talk about. Is like being aware of how you might bias yourself when you see that. Harvard logo on the resume. You might find yourself giving them the benefit of the doubt in a way that you wouldn't otherwise But honestly it's kind of just a lazy way to hire people like some of the best people I've hired Didn't go score. Went to a school that I hadn't heard of Or maybe didn't have a great reputation and forcing people to look a little more closely at the individual and to have just a good hiring process have good interview questions that actually serves you finding the people that are good fit for your company it may have less to do with. How quickly can you implement merge sort and sequels plus and more about? Are you going to be someone who's going to be successful at this company long term? Those two things might have minimal. Overlap so yeah I I do expect to some extent. There's going to be a lot more skepticism of traditional provincialism from higher education. And it's probably a good thing long as it doesn't go too far to the point that we're having people build airplanes that you learned everything they know about aerospace from playing curveball. Space Program But don't expect that will happen and Let's talk more about the endowment for a second. What hop what does it mean for LP capital because only? God what does it mean there? Yeah yeah in terms of investing in venture so Yeah a few things so I think. College endowments are usually invested pretty conservatively. Because it is going to be much more about wealth preservation then growth like you. You can plan if you take a look at your endowment if you could just shoes for it to stay static and say just grow just track the market. That's the investment strategy. Many many schools probably most are doing So it's a good thing because a lot of schools there been hedged really well and have lost you know less value than the S&P five hundred. Certainly they've lost some value sending you see a few effects warn is you'll see a lot of stuff now about how. Hey during a downturn is a great time to invest in venture capital and so. I think you'll see a lot of more sophisticated. Lp's choosing not as an investment strategy. But I don't think colleges are going to sort of say now's the time to add more risk in fact what might happen is if you imagine. The portfolio itself has lost ten percent of its value. And that's you know things marked Like things that are held in the public markets if you think about how much. What percentage of the endowment their venture capital Portfolio Represents? If it had moved from three percent it was at three percent. And it's designed to be three percent. Maybe it's moved to four or five percent just because Venture capital portfolio marks are slower to change. And so what you might see. A lot of dominance saying like. Wow we're over indexed on venture now so we don't necessarily want to get into a new fund or maybe in the worst case they're going to say. Hey we actually aren't going to be in on five of this fund that we've been for four funds but I think what you won't see is college endowments refusing the capital call. So I'm concerned about that. For CERTAIN VENTURE FUNDS LIKE smaller seed. Stage funds may be our first time funds that are driven by. You know you see you. See the rise of microphones. Lately a lot of the last couple years. I guess I would predict a little bit of a downturn in those. It seems that if you've raised the microphone and most of European say like your friends in fifty grand at a time or something they might say. Hey Times are tough My partner lost their job I might want out of the fund. you're not going to see any colleges doing that because their long term and you know every college wants to live forever so they don't want to damage the reputation in venture So I don't think you'll see it go that far. You know a lot of complaints about the higher education system it's been around That and the inability to pay that off. But it's been hard to compete because it's Or or Italy. You can't even forgive those those loans but it'd been to compete because you can't compete with The government in some sense And that's why some Sa- I think also I talk a little bit about financing how that works for for student loan as most work and whether we should be excited about is as there are other alternatives. Yeah Well I think clearly the like you can look at all these graphs. They all say the same thing that the cost of college is going up and it used to be the case that getting a job. Getting a great job was much easier by having a college degree to some extent. Didn't matter what it was in just sort of having that stamp of approval Weirdly I think we have it is. It's definitely been trend. Over hundreds of years of higher education that higher education is getting more and more accessible and again it is not perfect or anywhere near perfect but it's a world of difference away from say when Harvard was founded. It was a place for the elite of the elite To study you know religious Related Education and what you've seen as as like more people being in. It has simply made the supply of people with bachelor's degrees go up and up. It's no longer a guarantee for a job. I mean that's kind of like no secret so then it becomes difficult to pay off the loans that you've made and it's the one lone UK eclair bankruptcy and get out of so student. Debt is is pretty insane. Although I think was looking this up recently I think about a million. Americans have defaulted on their student debt. That's obviously especially tough now. So yeah I don't know I mean. I do think that there is going to be a little bit more skepticism around like should I take out a big loan and go get a degree in something. That isn't GonNa pay me money like certainly if you're wealthy that's like the idea of going to college to learn and have a great experience and meet people maybe meet. Your Life. Lifelong friends in partners. Like that's great. You need to be in the financial position to do that. Because you're not gonna be able to just sort of repay it in a way that you may be could've fifty years ago So yeah I don't know to some extent that's a bubble. I'm also really partial to this argument about the car. The cost disease Which again I guess is not universally accepted and I'm also not any PhD's who cares what my opinion is but the argument essentially is that there's no solution to this problem because the cost is disease argument essentially says there are lots and lots of things in our world that technology scale have made cheaper on sort of a per unit basis There's a lot of negative things. People say about global agriculture industrialized farming One thing that it's good at is lowering prices because of the massive scale and the technology that's gone in and maybe at some cost to state local farming or food quality. Some people might argue but in any case As lots and lots of things get cheaper and cheaper for people globalization making Making hardware cheaper. Right you're flat screen. Television cost you one hundred bucks. The Wallet share that services that cannot scale goes up so getting massage getting a manicure Going to college seeing a doctor anything that scales linear early. When people is essentially increasing in value increasing in cost As a percentage of your wallet share so yes so I don't know I'm pretty doom and gloom about the state of the state of this Something's gotta change and I think like so many things with Cova. It may not be that code is the reason. End that this changes but it may just sort of accelerated. I think if someone is paying thirty thousand dollars to get a bunch of webinars about and a reading list Shakespeare. They're going to wonder like connived. Gone to the library and reading group with my friends. I I don't know I mean certainly there you know. My grandmother was a shakespeare scholar so I shouldn't Stewart. There's a lot of value especially in something like that to talking to people that are real experts but Is it worth thirty thousand dollars? I don't know maybe if you're rich already speaking you you had a line in your Tweet storm about The non technical disciplines world needs ethics history policy liberal arts but the way they're taught in Roman sizes are out of occupied nature. Demand Zero colleges are integrating those startups. What can be done here. Yeah he's trying to lead to that earlier. I mean I think that well. Here's here's a specific. I'm like completely stealing this from a single conversation. I had a so so I have to credit them. So Rick Miller. Who's the outgoing president of Olin College was? I don't know how many other people he's talked to about this but is been kind of thinking about what's he doing that he's retiring as president and one thing he's been thinking about is what if you let's take ethics. What if you studied ethics and you do all the typical ethics curricula right? You're learning all the different schools about the thought. Throughout the many centuries that it's been studied but you're also building a portfolio approach in a sense. Where maybe you find a real problem that you WanNa try to apply ethical thing to and you're probably going to have to work with people from other disciplines to actually make impact. I'm so at say like an access to water in sub Saharan Africa steam after work with civil engineers and all kinds of stuff. So you build this portfolio project application of what you're doing and do this like twelve times In the same way that someone who's like studying computer science may end up graduating with a bunch of projects. They can show her. Someone studying graphic design. I'm congratulate with a design portfolio. Isn't that going to be more attractive to the market? Would civil engineering firm be more likely to try to hire you because they can look and go? Oh Wow? We made a ton of impact in these different areas so it is kind of like applying an line set to liberal arts education and so a lot of people will just. I think the allergic to that idea but I'm also just really partial to the idea that there's so many different ways to learn and letting people choose what they want to learn. Some people can learn the classic thing. Right is auditory visual manual bevere. My mom is actually a special education teacher. That teaches Read on particularly older ones who've been illiterate for a long time and there's a very specific technique that works really well. It doesn't work for anyone else like it would be a waste of your time but different problems. Having different styles that are good at solving them and different people being attracted different styles of education. I think that this random idea that I've literally thought about three days. It'd be super interesting to see someone. Actually try that and see if that actually works better for certain kinds of people certain kinds of learners and this the market were more appreciative of it. Why did get expensive in you? Were talking specifically why. Why did they spend so much money on the celebrities and stuff like that Like all these that billy now. Kobe even before Kovic silly like that. Really Students Juanita with the customer there. Why is this well? I think that some of the other than certainly this is not the thing that explains the whole trend but sometimes when you see a ridiculous building on a campus. It's the thing I mentioned earlier where some allom is like. I really want my name to be on that college campus for the rest of time so I'm going to build a door and like this is a classic thing when you talk to college administrators. They're like Oh my God. This person wants to donate so much money. We can't say no but it is the most useless thing and we could not convince them to put the money into the general pool for unrestricted funds because of their essentially ego. That's not that's not going to be the number one cause but it certainly doesn't help things. Yeah I think that I think the cost is used definitely a huge part of it. I think just the willingness to pay the idea that if you're of a certain social class you kind of need to go to a certain kind of school will to meet other people that are also of your social class. That is not something that was invented recently in. You know that's too to a large extent. What certain colleges have always existed to do so? Yeah I mean those folks are GonNa Price Insensitive and I think it's I guess. I just keep coming back to various forms of the cause disease if there are more they're also just more and more people wanting to go to school as traditionally at had been something that opened a lot of doors for you and and it still does open auditory. But then it's just harder and harder to scale college Especially if you want if they wanNA keep what they perceive as their quality bar. The cynical take that I've heard is that colleges are really a tax shelter hedge fund and that schools health is really a you know sort of subsidy or demane business which is the the Dow business And Harvard when he was like Harvard actually better off. You know going to four hundred students that have a like triggering it way more giving you all the way up and just you know tripling down on the on the Dow Dowman. How do you respond to that Critique broadly stirred government should they have sheltering should government be Sort of financially supporting these students. Yeah I actually. I had to tweet a while back where I was like. I was like higher. Education is basically a it's an endowment. Actually named the school. I was like this particular. School is essentially an endowment. That happens to use its management or DC is a hedge fund happens to use its management to train its future. Lp's so I had a good friend. He was in academia reply. Like no stop. It's kind of unfair because again it's not like people are. It's the tend before profit although on the other hand you know certainly top paid college administrators and certainly the dumb advantages. Make millions of dollars But the endowment manager of again the best performing undocumented yell could make way more money on Wall Street especially given his track record But still they make millions of dollars So I I think maybe there's some truth to that snark should Government pay more for college like absolutely I mean I think we're so underinvested in education at all levels All over our society. It's shameful one of my good friends. Laurie VOSS WHO's the Who was the founder? Cto N. P. He's from Trinidad and he's sent. He tweeted a video the other day the President of Trinidad and Tobago or prime minister. Maybe the Talked about an through a little bit of shade at Donald. Trump talked about how the islands were ready And he has been listening exclusively to doctors and scientists And he said this is the culmination of US investing in people investing in our education. We have experts here. and Gave me chills even just repeating it. It's like why are we not doing this? I mean obviously. We do. Invest some in in education All over but I I would say not nearly enough certainly the point that I would think even more so with K. Through twelve wire teachers paid so little like especially now everyone who has kids. I'm not someone with kids but everyone who has kids that I know is like Oh my God. This is terrible extending. I love my kids but I can't spend as much time with them. I'm like yeah go. Thank your third grade teacher when you wouldn't school opens up. This is what my mom does for a living. God she makes you know Not as much as a software engineer which is kind of ridiculous so Yeah certainly I think it's I guess. I would go so far as to say disgrace. How little we prioritize education relative to how important it is and I. I think there's the the the more nuanced got to the question of how much should government be supporting incumbent earth encouraging upstarts And I believe in the case of education They were saying that they should Brian Cavell was saying that you get out the business of sort of Of of the sort of interest free loans or just the way that they do the loans. I wasn't sure exactly the argument. You're aware of it out there or more. Broadly like favoring incumbents I very upstart yeah. Yeah there's I mean there's certainly an interesting economic Arkin obviously about like you're providing interest free loans like. What are you sort of doing to the economy at large And sort of having the government underwrite these things. That's I guess I would say. I'm not quite a deep thinker on that issue Yes in terms of favoring upstarts large institutions. Yeah it's interesting. I guess in like a perfect world with a lot of capital blindness problem. You might want to do both. I think like one thing again there so few sort of startups in education. So I have to kind of keep coming back to old but one thing all in talks about a lot is Kind of a difference between college and the mission so in one hand we were always wanting to innovate and we're always trying new things. On the other hand kids are going to get an education so if you kind of like figure out this interesting way to teach thermodynamics and then you go cool. We've taught this light. We figure out this really cool thing in other professor that came up with that is onto their next experiment. Eric Wait. We built that dynamics class. For what reason like shouldn't we all be taking it now So you do need an investment in both so I think there is you know like the some of the public universities that I really respect. I'm from Florida. University of Florida has done a fantastic job with research with educating tens of thousands of people with all kinds of backgrounds again not quite good enough But getting there City College of New York where actually winds incoming president is coming from? Like one thing. That's really impressed. Me About the union. Suny systems is decreasing example. When you're talking earlier about acceptance rates in sizes of school like those those schools have very high acceptance rates and they think that's a good thing and I think it's a big thing. They're trying to provide opportunity to people. It's a very community focused politics. It's all about folks that live in Manhattan Brooklyn Queens And what are the other ones? Staten Island in the Bronx That they want to provide access to the community. So yeah I mean. I do think that there is A good case for both you know. I think some people might argue that the government's not super great at startup style ideas you know kind of disruptive innovation early certainly. They haven't been recently so at the moment. I mean I guess I would say that a lot of the innovation I think I think probably most people would agree a lot of the innovation at. You're seeing that's really deeply first principles. Thinking innovation in education is happening sector. That's you know certainly If you look at the people that started an online learning really early and have done a great job lots of private schools if you look at Lambda School in what you're doing it on deck And you know certainly Oland Minerva Think about like Clermont colleges have done a really great job of building. Kind of a consortium model you know new in the sense of college meaning less than a hundred years old Cooper Union All private about that The Yesterday has been the Edwards of route The upper people who WANNA learn more. Where might you point them? Value on on twitter and Anything you WANNA plug. Oh yes so I should say that. Yes a routing. Tears is stitched firm. We're focused on what we call a heart attack so there's four of us were all engineers and we're all still very much practicing at least as hobbyists So I focus in what I call hard software so I'm looking at am L. developer tools. Anything that's difficult to build in software crecy used to run our She ran big parts of hardware at square and adopted on the Apple. Watch and Ipod touch Nanos so she does. A lot of electrical engineering consumer products supply chain. Cain does a lot of industrial automation. old industry. He sort of walking. How STUFF WORKS DOT COM? So we're interested in all kinds of that stuff and never too early. We talked to folks like before they've quit their previous jobs and they're thinking about startups. I'm so Leeann. Dc and So yeah we're doing Precede PROCEED. Say like million dollar checks on average but certainly higher lower As we're trying to figure out this crazy new environment And last part there said. Oh Yes yes yes. So at at Terrance T. E. R. O. N. T. and my blog is lead on AF. Lee Thank you so much for granted. You're an early stage entrepreneur. We'd love to hear from you. Check US out at village. Global Dot V. C.

Harvard president founder US Olin College Owen Lambda School Lee Edwards twitter COVA Minerva schools Software engineer Lamm Eric Wait Oland Minerva Olen NBA Rick Miller Highschool Olin College
Episodes We Love: A Night Of Bad Stories

Dear Sugars

44:04 min | 1 year ago

Episodes We Love: A Night Of Bad Stories

"Dear sugars is sponsored by talk space. Remember those New Year's resolutions. It wasn't that long ago but without support goals can feel impossible. No wonder only eight percent. Americans stick with New Year's resolutions. We all need support to conquer challenges. Get Twenty twenty on track with talk space talks based online there be find you the perfect licensed therapist to be your dedicated support system. They have over five thousand therapists. Trained in over forty specialties match with therapists suited to your needs and preferences and start messaging with them on day. One learn stress management communication skills behavior hacks and useful tips to help achieve your goals talk. Space is the support you need at a price you can afford. Got One hundred dollars off your first month when you use code sugars when you sign up. Set yourself up for success in two thousand twenty match with your perfect therapist today at talk. Space DOT COM or download the mobile APP and don't forget to use codes sugars for one hundred dollars off your first month. That's Talk Space Dot Com Promo Code sugars produced by the I lab at WBZ. You are Boston. The universe has good news. The Lost Lonely and heartsick. Do Sugars is here speaking straight into your ears. I'm Steve Almond this. Won't you please should sweet news Hi Steve Is Cheryl. So here we are tonight at Revolution Hall in Portland Oregon and we you know we do. These live shows once a year or so we always love it because it just. It's so wonderful to see you all when we are in the studio making the podcast. I always think like is anyone even listening but then everywhere we go people will come up to the grocery store and say I was in the next island. I heard you and I recognize your voice from the guys. Yes the I do not have that experience but interestingly people will occasionally walk up to me at a bus depot Or down in the mouth diner. And they'll say are you Steve Almond and I'll say yes I am. And they'll say. Do you think she would blurred my book so as our listeners. Now we almost always have a topic or theme and tonight we are going to discuss this theme. That is the title of Steve's new book bad stories he wrote about it in the cultural political collective sense but so often the advice we give is about counseling people to revise that narrative to think of a new way to think of their lives their relationships or their capacities for change and transformation. And I just feel like. That's really the core of our advice. This story revision. Ucla at all the time you say to our letters. You've got to rewrite the narrative which is another way of saying. There's a bad story you keep telling and you can tell me all about in this letter. The bad outcomes but until you understand the underlying bad story. You're not going to change those outcomes. Can you think of time in your life that you've had a bad story and you've changed it? Well yeah one of the things I write about in bed. Stories is the kind of I think it is American defect. I find in my life when I am focused on migrant. Rather than my vulnerabilities. I'm sunk whether that's in the context of like around the dinner table or in my relationships or friendships or looking at the news cycle sticking my hand into the blender of the current news cycle You know we say well. Why does somebody vote against their own interests? Why would somebody vote for a candidate? Who's going to take away their healthcare because they've constructed a story in which their grievances are more important than and then some perverse way. Our defense against their vulnerabilities. Because it's hard to admit that you have vulnerabilities and that you're weak and that you need help from the government or from your community or from your church. It's hard to do that and likewise in my life when I focused on grievances rather than my vulnerabilities I always had the wrong direction. The other big story that I told myself for many years. Which is the basic story that I need to be. Great in order to be worthy of love. And that's one I've been trying to work on and I'm still in process as you can tell what about you. Shirl are there bad stories I can even think of your columns are oftentimes an exploration of bad story? I mean it's interesting to hear you say that your one of your bad stories is you need to be great in order to be loved. Mine is I need to be nice in order to be loved and of course I think nicest good quality I'm not saying that. Kindness and niceness is a bad thing to be but. I think that a lot of women when I was a girl really raised to be like please everyone. If you make everyone around you happy if you give them what you think they want they will love you and for me to just learn how to let go of that a little bit and to sometimes disappoint people or to say no real struggles for me and also. I was thinking about this today when I was getting ready to come really at my lowest moment in my life. I was here in Portland Oregon. I was riding a bus and I was during that time just so I'd lost myself. I was using heroin. I didn't even know who I was. And there was a little girl. Got On the bus holding Purple Balloon. She had to. She hadn't tried to hand me one and I didn't it and as I wrote on the column I didn't take it because I felt like I no longer had a right to such tiny beautiful things and the older may said to the younger. May you're wrong you do and I think that that is the deepest bad story that we even at our worst moments aren't worthy of the tiny beauties that come our way and I think that that's a really powerful revision to make and that's what we're all striving to do. I think so much of our advice so many of the the letters that people write to us. That's really what they're asking. So sometimes the bad stories we tell ourselves are not so Highfalutin Sometimes they are. I met a guy in Italy. Yes and I would like to go back to Italy to have some hotness with that guy so this is the letter we got in our inbox. Some of you might remember a while back okay. We answered this letter. This woman who called Herself Wander Luster essentially said what I just said. I've met a guy in Italy. We you're wander- lusters almost never happens studio. We'll be like we're going to read a letter and the person just POPs up from behind some corners. That's so you know okay. Good okay. So there's clearly only one piece of advice for this woman okay. Who wrote US that letter? But we're GONNA listen back to the advice that we gave her right. Yes every listener. Yup I have only one thing to say the whole and that is there is nothing more beautiful than a hot boy on a Sicilian wander luster. Go don't even look back. Just go have fun. You said you're GONNA be heartbroken. You know those things as long as you know those things go to that boy. Have a blast liquor wounds later. I think there's another answer to the question. It sounds great. Go with it. Let's go crazy I get it. But she's really proposing to spend a whole bunch of money and more the point invest like a big part of our heart. I think she should know that two things one that he wants her to be there and it's going to spend time with her because we have all been in situations where it seems great in romantic and wonderful and then that hot Sicilian boy is off with somebody else and you're left in the shadow. It mandatory but just imagine for a moment that there's a world in which a young woman who is telling us in her letter that she is emotionally vulnerable to this guy she's kind of inbetween things and ready to throw her heart fully into and she throws her heart into it lands with a third on the hot Sicilian sand and it sizzles around like he's making music with some and then another walking up all my folks. Here's a total since she wants him. I believe people when they like what she's saying yes she likes him more than she probably should sustain. You know what though this moment isn't about protecting my heart. This moment is about leaving into the Fire Calgary. I love it when Shirl doesn't grandstand and totally like push it down my throat. I love that okay. But there's something that happened. There is something that happened. Which is that wander? Luster wrote us a letter later like a year later like a year later and it just popped into our in box and I want to read you that letter and then we'll talk about a little bit dear sugar. Thank you for reading my letter on your show. I cannot express how shocking and thrilling it was to hear two of my favorite people. Read my words I am wander luster here my roar. The woman trying to decide whether to follow a boy. Trust me Steve. He's a boy not a man to Italy for a fling. Here's what happened since then. Instead of going to Italy I spent that money on another solo trip this time six months in South East Asia. I had the episode downloaded and happened to be on a boat in the middle of Cambodia by myself when I suddenly heard my letter. I was surrounded by locals and didn't have any cell service or Wi fi which resulted in me grinning ear to ear and breathless as I listened to your response. No one to share it with which in some ways made it even more unbelievable what struck me about. Hearing the episode was the facts. I left out. I simply removed parts. That didn't fit my narrative mainly he never asked me to come to Italy in part because after our fling he met someone else. I had a hard time. Admitting that fact to myself at the time to add a twist to this he messaged me and told me that he and the girl were traveling through Vietnam together. In fact we would all likely be in Hanoi at the same time. I decided not to pursue this and largely forgotten about it because I was sick for most of my time in Hanoi the joys of travel one day while I was recovering I ventured to the lobby of my hostile for a change of scenery and within thirty seconds of sitting down I heard a voice looked over and there they were walking past my hostile. I bolted part of me. Didn't want them to see me. Half dead on showered. The I know that feeling the other part just didn't want to see them traveling as I hope we would be halfway around the world. I finally accepted my rejection and let that fantasy go currently. I'm on my flight back to Portland after six months away and I can say I have zero regrets about my choice. I still love the romantic fantasy of the man in Italy. But reality always wins. And that boy just isn't for me so I wanted to back up the tape. A little bit more Cheryl and everyone wildly applauding for Cheryl and her big beating Minnesota Nice Heart. All of you who were saying to me Us skuld you wag. What are we to? What are we to say about this? Well you know what's interesting that we interesting interesting? We thought we were so struck by wanderlust set at her. Follow up to us but even what we said on the tape is that I said I believe the things people tell me about themselves so in in the letter she and she's even saying I misrepresented my intentions and my hopes and so I was giving her advice. And so we're you. If you say this seems fun we're going to trust you and I'm GonNa always say go have fun even if your heart gets broken because actually I ended up. You learn something right and look when I write about bad stories. Sometimes they're consciously constructed sometimes they're propagandistic. They have a kind of ill intention. But most of the time they are constructed out of our wishes and out of our fantasies and our hopes that the world will be kind and the hot guy will be there waiting for us and we ended. If he dumps there will be another hot guy. That's another Hawker. Always be another guy coming down the beach. That's that's a true story. Well here's the problem. I mean the really for me. It was unsettling when I read the letter the first time and we talked about. It is if you calling him a boy. I've got some concerns and wander luster. Herself recognized it. Believe me he's a boy not a man because a man is honest about what his involvements are what how available he is emotionally and I think of people who are not at that moral stage yet as people who are more children. They're careless and reckless. They're boys rather than men. But you know what we want to say to you. Wander Lester is actually. This is a revelation that you wrote a letter and they you revised it. You realize that you told us the incorrect story and then and then what's cool about life is that we're constantly doing that that there will always be. I think another layer of what is the deepest truth and and we can't always know it at the time right because we're all ultimately unreliable narrators. We have a radically subjective view of events that might be objectively true. But you know the way that we see them as with our hearts right not with our minds and certainly sometimes not even with our eyes. And I think that's a part of the human struggle. I'm trying to be very forgiving of the Times that I do that. Because I don't think there's an ill-intentioned there. I think there's quite a beautiful intention. But it's one that lets us in for danger unless we catch it in time and wander luster is to be congratulated wherever you are out there for catching and in time. That's pretty you might not have recognized that when you wrote us but I'll bet you that writing was part of the journey to saying this is maybe not such a good idea. I would be better to spend that six months traveling the world alone and figuring out who I am and what I want from it and I just know deep in my heart. Wander Lester. There is an Italian in the future for you. Listen we're going to move on because we have a really interesting guest tonight. Omar Khadr is an author and journalist for ten years. He traveled around the world to cover stories. Such as the NATO led invasion of Afghanistan the military trials in Guantanamo Bay and the Arab spring protests in Egypt. He's the recipient of Canada's National Newspaper Award for Investigative Reporting and the Jeff Penny Memorial Award for young journalists. His debut novel American War won the Pacific Northwest Booksellers Award and has been listed as one of the best books of the year and the New York Times The Washington Post D. Q. And several other publications please join us in welcoming Omar to the stage. Welcome to the arm to do sugars. Thank you so much for having me. This is great as you probably heard when you're talking about bad stories tonight and I'm I'm curious in your own life. Do you have stories that you've told yourself that you had to revise you as you evolved and changed. Do I have bad stories? I haven't almost nothing. But could you think of Yeah this is from a few years ago I had met this guy in Italy. I am kidding. It was bad hot. Yeah there is actually a bad story that takes place in Italy for real is about midnight and I get a phone call. My parents were on a cruise and they stopped in Naples. My Dad has suffered a heart attack and so I got this phone. Call saying you know. Your Dad's surgery and then an hour after that. I got a phone call saying. Your Dad passed away and my dad was real young. It was fifty six And so when I tell that story there's a sense of Oh it's very clear. Cut Bad story. You had to suffer through this. But that's not what sticks with me. What sticks with me is that a death overseas is one of the few times where life perfectly imitates a William Faulkner novel. Everything is difficult and miserable. And so I- fi I over to to Naples and I spend the next few days getting permits to move the body. My father always wanted to be buried each of which is where he was born. And you're you're into the consulate. You're doing all this stuff and for a while. I thought that that was what made it a bad story for me but in fact what made it. A bad story is that I wanted that stuff because it allowed me to completely sidestep the process of actually morning right and so it was only years later. That occurred to me that you know emotional. Wounds Scar up real quick. And if you don't do the work of actually sort of morning and doing all of that in the moment in never goes away right and I think about that every day about this process of what I should have done versus what I busied myself doing. Yeah wow I love how that's constructive. So many of our letters Cheryl that we get are really. You know people who had that scar tissue has has has grown over it and they're trying to go back in and we have to say to the essentially. It's it's time to go back and do that work. You haven't worn this. You haven't mourned the loss of this relationship of this marriage of this beloved relative. Whatever it is we're one of the things that Yeah I have to say that some like serious sugar. He just sat down epigrammatic wisdom one of the things that is so striking about novel. Is that you're able to get at the universality of hatred and the impulse for revenge. I mean you just got it. There is America has gone even more tribal than it is and we want to actually read you a letter that that has to do with that. Very idea of hatred. How it forms and how we might uninformed or Yup. I'll read it. There's my aunt has essentially taken the place of my mother. Since I was a little boy. She's always been there when I needed any kind of support. I'm not in touch with most of my family. So she's been the rock in my life. The problem is she's a horrible racist. Her beliefs are ignorant violent and based on misguided notions. For years we've been able to talk about our beliefs calmly and disagree in a healthy way but as she gets older and things get more tense in the United States. She's grown more hateful and her stance. I won't repeat some of the things you said recently because they simply aren't worth repeating. I believe all people are essentially good. The experience hate because they're confused about how things truly are my religious beliefs. Tell me I should be tolerant of my aunt and not accept or validate her beliefs but instead listened to her with an open heart and make my point of view clear. I believe that's the only way to move forward personally and in society but her particular brand of hate is toxic. It Burns me not just when we're discussing beliefs or current affairs but when we talk about anything signed trying to be tolerant and this I wanNA say. This is a kind of letter that we've been getting. I think an increasing numbers in the lead up to the election and after the election that as the country has become more divisive. So have families and friendships. What do you think Omar so I? I should thank him for writing the letter. That's I don't want to thank someone for having the courage to admit racism exists but that that's the letter that would have been much easier not to right and that's something we do with our family members all the time you know. Half of being in a family is just ignoring stuff. That's kind of all all by that you know across the board but there's okay so I if this this notion that America's particularly tribal right now. I'm not one hundred percent. Sure I agree with that. I think what's happening in America right now. Is that the things that for a very long time have been whispered are now being shouted because people feel like they have the freedom and they have the okay to do that right. That's in the letter. Yeah it's this notion of what's acceptable to say rather than what has always been said. Look re-taping listen in Portland down the street highway. Five runs through the city. When highway five was first designed to run through the city was deliberately run through predominantly black neighborhoods as part of an effort to displace them. The reason I bring this up is because I think that there is something very very comforting about assuming that the idea of racism is individual rights and is the purview of monsters which is to say. Racism is the person wearing the Klan Hood burning a cross on the lawn right but in reality the vast majority of racism that takes place in this country is to is done by people who are perfectly capable of love who are genteel and kind and dressed up in all kinds of clothes of respectability. And so I think for this gentleman. There's there's two things to think about the individual versus societal obligation. The individual obligation to his aunt is a function of his own conscience. What kind of human being does he want to be? Does he want to be the kind of human being would just less the slide which would be very easy to do and largely would not create that much more harm or does he want to be the person who stands up to sort of thing? But what's really sort of heartbreaking about this is the idea that the bigger obligation to his aunt. The societal obligation has to do with trying to create the kind of world the kind of society where his aunt wouldn't have grown up like this wouldn't have developed these views you know and that involves acknowledging your history and that involves raising the voices of people who have been victims of this kind of racism and then involves a lot of hard work that after you take all of it might still be too late in the case of his aunt right but yet you have that obligation because I think more so than learning how to deal with with your aunt you have an obligation to create the conditions where this doesn't keep happening over and over again. Those are two very different things. Yes yes one small question that maybe we need to close with address in tolerant is that I think really. He's asking how do I function in this relationship? This is a woman I love. Not only do I love. She's she's essentially my mom. She's my rock. He says and she has toxic ideas. That offend me and hurt me and harm others right. So what do I do with this? Can I love somebody? Who has these beliefs? That are so awful so hateful? I think that what you said about the voices getting louder. Omar's really true that this ant might have always been racist probably was she feels emboldened by these times to express those things more loudly and the consequence of that might be tolerant that you have to give your aunt the consequences that she's brought about herself that she loses you a little bit maybe not entirely but maybe you say. I'm going to set the boundary that I won't be in your company when you say those things and I think that that can be a really loving thing I've I've talked a lot about boundaries that boundaries are loved. They're saying I respect who you are but I also respect who I am and this is what I need. If we're going to continue I agree completely. I I think if we're GONNA talk about love. We should define in the context of this letter. What that word means which is to say I mean writers like James Baldwin talked about this much more clearly than I ever can but this notion of how much damage racism does to the racist which is to say that it forces them to believe in this holy fraudulent supremacy And then when reality doesn't bear any of that true they become incredibly angry right and so to live your life. Both delusional and angry is a very difficult way to live a life. We're going to talk about this gentleman's obligation to his aunt in terms of love. Love requires you to do what's difficult you know to sidestep all of that is not love. It's abdication right. Yeah Yeah Well Omar thank you so much. Dear sugars is sponsored by talk space. Remember New Year's leave all the commitments to improve yourself. Well here it is February already and a good time to do self checkup. We all have habits. We WANNA kick in two thousand twenty. But you don't have to go it alone. Talk space can help. Tax Base is a convenient and affordable way to get the support of a licensed therapist. Someone who can provide ongoing guidance so you can see concrete change at your own pace. Choose from over five thousand therapists based on your needs and preferences message with them right away via text audio picture or video. It's like a personal trainer for your life and you never need to go to an office or schedule appointments talks base. It's the support you need at a price you can afford. Got One hundred dollars off your first month when you use code sugars when you sign up. Set yourself up for success in twenty twenty match with your perfect therapist today. I talk space dot com or download the mobile APP and don't forget to use code sugars for one hundred dollars off your first month. That's Talk Space Dot Com Promo Code sugars now. This is now the wine drinking portion of the evening. So I'll just say you guys are so intense these these things you wrote on these cards a lot really. It's a lot and I should say. These weren't just any index cards that we handed out for this bad stories episode. We wrote what's the bad story? You tell yourself the one that undermines your happiness. So that's what y'all on these cards and so I'm GonNa ask you one sheryl. I'm from a small town in Iowa and came from a poor family. What do know about how the world works. I never graduated from university so I don't feel equal to my friends. Okay well that is a question. Right up my alley. Because I grew up in a small town in Minnesota in a poor family didn't have money didn't have didn't come from an educated family or anything like that and I thought that I didn't know how the world worked because I thought that the world was out there and what I learned the moment I ventured into the world which I'm really gonNA guess you already know you. Whoever wrote this on your card is that there's a whole world in all of us in every place in every situation and everything you know from the life you had is valuable and important and it's a story we need to hear and it's your job to tell it in any way that you can. I tell it literally because I'm a writer but but I mean the way that you bring the full force of your humanity to Your Life. Every day is what matters and truly almost nothing else does so. It's not about whether you're educated or uneducated or rich or poor or this or that or the other thing it's about who you are. How and how you make manifest all of the beauty that you have to offer others. I mean I think what might have compelled you to write that. That question is of course the culture tells US otherwise. Don't get me wrong by by being sort of optimistic in my answer to you. I don't mean to say that it's not hard to reject that story because everything has conspired to tell you that you you're not worth much but I'm here to tell you it isn't true when I read from a small town and I came from a poor family. I think boy. That person probably has a lot to teach me because the predominant images that we see in our culture our of rich powerful people in big cities. Kurt Vonnegut said something. That's in bad stories that I've never forgotten he. He said basically almost all cultures on earth have important folklore and received wisdom. About how the meek and the poor and the elderly are wise there are people who are receptacles of wisdom and we should listen to them and actually this is an American question. It's part of an American set of pathologies about wealth equaling worth in some way and We've got you individually have to try to undo that by saying I have just as much to teach anyone else. Yeah Okay so. We read very quickly. All the index cards and and I would say that the the one that we kept getting over and over again with some variation of this one. I'm not enough so that's not really a question but it is a bad story and I think it's one that a lot of familiar with what do you make of that. Steve will I make of it that yeah? I'm not either. Join the club because that because that feeling of not being enough is part of the essential human arrangement and some of it is self punishing and inhibiting and keeps us from learned helplessness. But there's another way of looking at that which is that. It's a transitory state. And by the way how everyone feels in a particular moment we walk around thinking everybody else has it made and it's not true. Everybody is feeling that they're not enough. In particular moments doubt is a furnace. It is part of what allows people like Cheryl for instance to say. I want to have a bigger life than the life. That's been set out for me. I don't just WanNa be nice all my life. I WANNA speak fiercely. I want to say things that might be discomforting people or even unsettling for me. Because that's the kind of life I WANNA lead. So I want to caution you since. This is a common feeling its transitory but it also is trying to teach you something which is you. Don't you might not feel like enough now but if you have a sense that you want to be more. That's a good thing it's interesting. I had lunch today with the amazing and brilliant writer Rebecca SC loot. Who's in the house? She and I had this great discussion about the nature of writing. Which is you know very difficult and of course this this paradox. I think every writer and those of you who are writers in the room will know what I'm talking about when it's like okay. We allegedly love writing and we also hate writing and and we were talking about this grappling with our work and the notion of this feeling of self loathing that you hadn't been doing enough every day. I didn't do enough. I'm failing as a writer. I'm failing as a writer and what's interesting is we the the conclusion we came to is. Basically what Steve? Just said and that is you know there's some aspect of I'm not enough that's destructive and that keeps you from doing what you need to do so you do have to say. I'm not going to believe that story. I'm going to somehow come up with any number of ways to say that's not true not true not true and sometimes that really is simple as like that kind of mantra to the self. It's not true I am enough. The other thing the positive aspect of I am not enough is that it can be a driver. It can bring you to your knees in my process that I've had to surrender to the idea of truth of my own mediocrity by which I say you know what I really am not enough. I am not going to be able to to write the brilliant book that I set out to write but guess what I can do. I can write a book and the book suck. It might be mediocre but the thing is is. My work isn't really to write. The brilliant book by work is to write the book. And the minute you do that you are enough because you don't have to be everything and I think that. That's the way to harness this negative voice channel at Donna Positive River. If you will that it really actually contributes to what will eventually be enough or I got one for you. Most men I date are trying to get over an ex. They think I can be there. Wild girl or the girl that pisses their ex off that they're dating me. I feel like I meant to be the rebound that helps others get over and and eventually find love. This is the bad story that this young woman. I'll assume has constructed right. The first thing that comes to mind about a story like that is that really is a story that you've told yourself you know you get to. I think. Be More clear and assertive with these people. You get involved with about just saying I'm not that person to you and maybe that's really a conversation that you need to have with yourself. It's not so much what guys are drawn to you and what story they have. Do you think they have about you? And what function you provide for them? It's really about. I think the person that you choose. So maybe it's it's about you not getting involved with guys who were on the rebound who looking for the wild girl that you need to be brave enough to so you're more vulnerable face so that they can't make a mistake about who you are what your intentions are and I say this because I know exactly that kind of caricature you're talking about. I think that there was this phase in my twenties phase twenties where you know. I actually one of the I was actually. I wanted to be loved. I wanted connection but what I pretended to be was the wild girl who just wanted to have fun and you know just wanting you know would would laugh and you could do whatever with me and I would. My feelings would be hurt And like the way I even wrote about this while that was like I'm more like a guy sexually because it was the way I imagine guys were and that's that's like a really fun person who's just totally line and and so maybe that's right and so maybe the guys aren't the problem. You're lying to yourself about who you are and what you want and the way to change. It is to stop doing that. I think that's just right. I would also say that. We tend to engineer outcomes unconsciously and we typecast ourselves without even realizing it so aside from saying we're really don't do that and set boundaries. I think part of what you need to do. Since this is the story that keeps playing out is say. What's my part in this story? To what extent am I playing this role because I want a certain kind of quick attention and I'm willing to trade that kind of attention what I really want. Which is an enduring love. Are there parts of me? That are frightened. And that's okay. I was that way for years. I said well I want to get settled down and married and have kids and I want to be this family guy and I just told myself that story and it was fraudulent and that was why I never ended up in that situation and you know had to do some work a lot of work to to realize you know what I'm going to have to fix some things before I'm really ready for that kind of owner ability. I'm ready for that kind of risk and many of us would rather be the wild girl or be the dude Bro. Who's putting notches on the bedside Italian the Italian this all right? So what's bad store? You tell yourself when that undermines your happiness. This is a little silly. But it's a silly one that I think has a deeper part so one time I was in Hong Kong and suddenly I pooped in my pants there on the street. My sister kindly guided me to a restaurant. I was profoundly unhappy at this point. How this is the question. How is this okay? Cheryl strayed your rather famous for pooping your pants. I guess I'm giving away the next memoir but okay oh my goodness now you know. I think I love the pooping in your pants. Times of life. And it's a very humbling experience but just by just by a voice. How many people in the room if poop their pants? But I mean above the age that you're supposed to Poop your pants demand. That wasn't the question. Yeah so but no I I think what you just said is just right. I mean this is like this is part of life and this is what this is. What brings us all together. We are all pants. Poopers in the end. That's right. We've Long said it. The Path to the truth runs through shame. And actually the end of this. I should read the end of it because I think it's the answer to the question. Whoever wrote this after this brave person writes how is this? Okay they then. Is it okay because I was with my sister and got to be real and the answer is yeah yeah? That's what happened. Your sister helped you out. You needed something and you had a wise true friend. And she helped you out. Yeah that's a real friend. A real friend. Thank you guys all for coming in. What if what? If I'm night bras? It means it means a lot to us. No thank you do. Your sugars is produced by the New York. Times in partnership with w our our podcast producer is the wonderful Alexandra. Leong and our Special Event Producer at Revolution Hall is the wonderful and amazing and polymathic. Jim Bromberg our editor and managing producers. Louis Anderson our executive producer is Lisa. Tobin and our editorial director is Samantha. Hennig we recorded this. Show the Almighty Revolution Hall. Right here in Portland Oregon with our engineer. Neil are mix engineer is Brad Fischer our theme music is by the Wonderful Wunderle with vocals by LIZ vice and tonight by Rick Miller please find us at NY times dot com slash dear sugars. You can send us your letters at your sugars at NY TIMES DOT COM. That's dear sugars plural at NY TIMES DOT COM or leave. Us A voicemail are awesome and exciting new hotline at nine two nine three nine nine eight four seven seven and please check out our column the sweet spot ny times dot com slash the sweet spot and most of all. Thank you guys for being here for listening to the podcast for telling bad stories and then also telling good stories. Thank you so much guys. Yeah we love you hey listeners. You've probably figured out by now that we love to do live shows on dear sugars and we're excited to announce that we're hosting another live show in Portland Oregon on Saturday June thirtieth. It's going to be the deer sugar summer party. We're going to answer letters from our inbox. Take questions from the audience and talk with some special guests. Tickets are on sale now at Revolution Hall Dot Com. That's Revolution Hall. One WORD DOT COM. We hope to see you there.

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Ep. 004: Sweaty, Hot, Dark Secrets with Sin City

Comic Dwarves

1:02:37 hr | 1 year ago

Ep. 004: Sweaty, Hot, Dark Secrets with Sin City

"Frank Miller succeeding by writing this popcorn novel so we got a sweet little popcorn pocket nor novel to put in our popcorn pockets. Say That twice. I say Pocket Popcorn five times fast. Popcorn pocket pop To POCKET POPCORN POCKET POPCORN PUMPKIN pocket. You know what the problem is. A heart is because I'm trying to keep track of how many times I said it and say it's time we'll just gone. We'll count no no. I'M GONNA count on my fingers not in my head and then want us. You don't want anyways brainpower you gotta use yes. It's okay pocket Pepper Popcorn PICA python. How it was so I got four to three and a half but those were great five time kind of pocket. Popcorn pocket popcorn pocket now. You know this isn't a worse because I don't have a pop guard reporting. You're GonNa hear that you do assume this is going to make lots of Worley here. Josh can't check pocket popcorn and not Iraq. I mean you can't introduce checkoffs checkoff reference. Hello and welcome to the comic door of your guided excursion into the rich minds of comic each week we invite listeners to unearth a new comic book. Jim with us. And then join in as we duke it out at absurd length. I'm Tom Beavis. And I'm joined by my fellow. City slickers Joshua Sheppard had. He say Michael Brown. Hi An last and certainly least Sean Corbin. I would just like you guys to know that I am here today. We'll be talking about nineteen ninety-three since dame to kill four by Frank. Murray on Dark Horse Comics Fellas. Let's get digging. What we have here is sin city a dame to kill four so the story opens up on our character. Dwight and Dwight saves a prostitute from this town called Old Town. He gets a call from his ex girlfriend and ex girlfriend sound just like a piece of work. He has not too thrilled with her but she has him eating out of the palm of his hand or her hand they agreed to me and she starts running her little spell and gets him all captivated and as her believe that her life is in danger so he being the good man that he is as far as we know tries to help her out lovers. He's he's not super convinced but then he decides you know what I'm going to. I'm going to help her out. He decides to go visit her at her new place her state and she's over there swimming. I will say there's a a a lot of nudity in this book. But there's a lot of some nudity in tonight. I mean more than you usually see a comic so not a lot. You're right but so he gets caught by their security that they have their because this is like a fancy place. I have security. They claim not to know each other because they don't want to make things weird and by reveal their plot so he gets his he gets his butt whooped pretty hard. Well then we I will say we are introduced to MARV MARV's another one of the main characters he's described as a big old hole kind of brooding dude and he has a temper and he watches out for Nancy. Nancy as dancer that they have at the club that they all respect and Mar protects. I feel like Mike's Interpretation of this comic is so innocent. That's what Mars all about weird cold blooded murderer psychopath. He's misunderstood or I eventually white goes to save her and more fights Dwight fights eva fights and at the end we can all guess what happens right are. I'm going to spoil it for you guys so at the end able tries to pull one of her games again but to why does not have in it and to white ends her right. There boy was so specific and then got so vague about like the major Bedia Eva rain middle part for a second. And then you like the entire book the Syfy. I don't know how you can make said in the end. I assumed I was going to and say in the end of the middle but no he really meant the end. We we got. No I make no nothing okay. Okay I felt like I was being too specific and I felt like I was being judged. I don't really sure I felt attacked. I mean it's not your fault. I just felt that okay. So what are we? The leaders Middle Ground. Okay told was white. Hooked up with his ex girlfriend and then refer to guide him to go kill her. That's what she took four. Okay so let me try again. So we'll pick up in the middle and Marvin Marvin Dwight fight. Everybody and then the cops come because a calls the cops on them and she double crosses him and gets the cop to go after her because she got the copying out of the palm of her hand because she has her powers and that's what she does so the cops go after them they end up in old town where they meet up with a bunch of the deadly women assassins. That's what they are they are they might one other thing before its essence. They're women who said the whole mission and with things. I thought toby didn't quite recognize what was going on no Tampa Mike actually didn't recognize what was going on in. Old Town really. Apparently he just thought handful of US acid a ton of women. There's there's me Ho. She's pretty cool but the point is is that they patch him up because he saved one of them earlier. That's where we pick up on the white now for anyone listening. Go back to the middle of his synopsis and put that mentally. Look we're going abstract okay. Adult linearly might. We'll talk about this all out characters off air. I think I got some revelations for you. I mean I guess it's possible that they could be dominatrix is based on their outfits like such a gentle soul is wanting to believe the best people okay. This girls do line of things. They do. Old Towns Place Sin City so with that Amazing Synopsis. That you guys are all going to appreciate. Trust me. Read the book. Learn for yourself and you'll see a man. That was the best naps of ever heard from any of them. Especially now from Sean. But next up we're going to hear some of our feedback that we're getting from people in for that. We have the magnificent Tom. I was just GonNa say before. We get into the MAILBAG SPOILER ALERT FOR THE SYNOPSIS. That just happened. I know and I feel like I was having a hard time figuring out how to segue into the mail bag and thankfully Mike just did that for me. Mailbag is easy today. We've got one email from a listener and if you guessed it you probably guessed right. It's toby frequent contributor toby Wright's first of all the women in this comic aren't women their pop women blow up dolls. Pamela Anderson Slash Anna Nicole Smith type bullshit. That's what I think Dwayne much winds like a little bitch. Does this take place in Vegas album? Men look like primates. This what you mean when you guys talk about war comics they say the title of the comic in the comic book. I think I saw a penis. I like Girls Club in town. This club of Athens right. I really appreciate the way. Toby formats his or her. Correspondents to the PODCAST. It's got its own trademark style of impatience. Yes we hear the voice in there. We also have some feedback on darkest night They didn't leave a name. So anonymous responders said you have made it to where I'm afraid jumping into an older comic lied or they all jumping over like this. I don't want to get into twenty character to know what's going on with Mike. Eric you sound like a pretty good middle aged woman shawn might be interesting. I guess the the response would have to that is blackest. Night is quite pointedly across over event so I think comics like ongoing comics from the big two are written in a way where you'll have periodic jump on points where you can easily jump into get the story without having to do a lot of backtracking but when you jump into a big event like that especially when like blackest night which. Geoff Johns pretty much building towards since he first started working on the green lantern character then. You're definitely going to have some homework to do. And speaking of blackest night I do have a correction in the last episode. Josh asked me about the separate miniseries. There was a blackest night miniseries for a few major characters and I said they're only four of them and I said one of those four were Batman and that was incorrect. There are actually six of them. In one of them was Batman who was last night. Superman wonder woman Jay the Flash Batman and titans the other the part that I had forgotten about was this took place sequentially after battle for the cowl so this point in time Dick Grayson assumed the mantle of Batman but because structurally in the story. It's so important that Batman is dead. They didn't include him anywhere in the main blackest night story so as to not muddy that message. If we've proven one thing in the four five weeks of doing this podcast. It's that we're very serious. Comic Book Journalists It. We just wanted to go back and make that correction while we still had time before somebody listens to it and sends us an angry email before somebody listens to. You wouldn't want to risk that now. The mail bags out of the way. Let's get to the meat of the thing and talk about Sin City takeaway. Josh Guys Sin City we we finally got a dame to kill for. This book was growing up very special to me because it was one of the first. It was actually one of the first books that I picked up and by at my local Comic Book Shop in Elk Hound. When I got a friend of mine he recommended it to me because I was pretty like pulp fiction and stuff so he just told me about Sensiti did not know. You're pretty into pulp fiction. Ten years ten years old. I saw which in the movie theater when I was like five or six when it came out ninety two or ninety four. Whatever how is it? You're so well adjusted as an adult issue. Yeah my my parents and my aunts and uncles did not really have a filter for things that they showed me. When the child they did not really care but Yeah here we are damned to kill for was the jumping point for me in the city franchise and I didn't realize that it wasn't the first one when I picked it up because it just said Stories from Sin City Dame to kill for so didn't really have like a cue that there was another before it but it kinda prompted that there was a few said stories from Cincinnati so it could take place anywhere but the cool part to me about sin. City was that I felt I could just jump into it and just get a little piece of this brooding dark society that Frank Miller created. I didn't have to really worry about deep things that were happening. Because to me the dialogue and such was just Kinda like moot. It was just like to get the book going because a lot of the dialogues. Kinda throw throwaway. Unfortunately but disliked the kinetic nature of where the book goes where it takes Dwight the locations that it takes the care that Frank Miller has for the city itself the characters that he puts into the books later on down the road. Once you do get into the other books is just very apparent to me. That Frank Miller loved the world that he was building and he he believed in it and I think it was fantastic and it made me believe in it as a ten year old. Josh and I really enjoyed that to your credit when you when you suggested this book. I thought is Josh fucking crazy. Why are we going to tell people? Hey go read the second volume of comic and just never mind. The first volume. We just want you to plunge right into the second volume and you assured me he said no Tom Notes. Good Trust me and I didn't but I gotta say you're right this book at I won't say it depends not at all on the first volume but it depends very little. The readers certainly not gonNa Miss Anything. They're not going to you know. Lose any of the flavor of the story just by not picking up that that first volume I think the first volume flushes out an important character in. That's present in the second volume but his backstory that you don't need for the context of this one volume so if anybody out there has been concerned about our reading volume to before reading volume one. I don't think that's an issue here. I don't think that's something I'll say very often. In fact I think I'm going to fight all of you pretty hard on this in the future. Especially SEAN THIS CASE. I think we're going to say I can I can totally agree with that because I've never read the first one and I didn't feel like I was missing anything with the second one. It wasn't like blackest night where had to go back and read three different storylines. I felt pretty okay about in in our felt weird going into it too because I was like all right. This is the second book I figured. You guys probably read the first book so I was like. I don't know if I'm GONNA be like having two bucks or what but it was fun here at least read the first one. I read the first one a while ago like ten years ago. I think didn't really care for it. I don't own it so I bought volume to for this podcast and tomorrow. I'm going to go by volume one because I feel weird just having volume to you on my bookshelf by itself like you pay your pants with. No shoes went outside right. I'm going to go buy a comic that I've read and actively dislike put on my comic shelf just because this park Does he people? Don't let it overtake your life. I don't think that I'm going to buy the rest of the volumes. Although let me tell you if Lucky and Didi offered me a sweet deal on the rest of the volumes I will definitely take it seventh one. Anything enjoyed sweetie life. I'm not going to anyway. Sorry sorry to off road on that going back to the second book. I honestly feel like this book could've been the first book after reading the first actual book because I feel like this book gives queues and like Little Hinson nodes two scenarios that did happen in the first book. It's a kind of a cool reveal. If you read the first book second after reading this book is like a a high whereas if you read the first book and then this book there's maybe two panels in this book that have that same kind of connection. I think I agree with you. Actually that was a thought that I had in my head as I was. Reading is whether whether story like this would be a better jumping off point or the actual first story would be better and I think I prefer it with the with the second volume I. I wonder if Darkhorse had a hand in that like if they thought MARV story would be stronger. Cover selling story for the first to get people interested since it was just like excerpts at the back end of books or if they thought damn to kill for was so good that it should be standalone book. I since that was the first floppy honestly truly I think the truth of the matter is that Frank Miller had planned on doing anything more past MARV's first story and it was just so well received that he decided to go on and carry on with. Mike thinks that he's out of the woods. He thinks he doesn't have to go back and read number one but I think as a group. We should all assign him to go. Read it her homework. I WANNA take experiment and see if see what he thinks about volume one after having read volume to so I wanNA kind of get a show of hands. Can we all agreed? Mike is Reading volume. One needs to be a guinea pig for sure. Do here. Party popper some spinners some noisemakers. Come on Mike. Give Noise Josh. Our pre-game discussions before we even selected this book. When you just told me it was on your list you said and I quote. I picked city volume two. Because it's the Best Damn Frank Miller story ever. It is the Best Damn Frank Miller story ever and uh no no. It's not the best after reading this. I think I still like either Batman Year one or the Dark Knight returns. I'll I'll accept at least one of those hurt specifically her wait no way. Which is the first book that he wrote. Leave me hanging is. I think it was the dark knight returns and then again then. I don't have decayed three was called. It was called. Dark Knight and a Third Reich was full title. Yeah Dark Knight Master Race. Because frankly has this weird thing with frigging Nazism. Nazi symbolism are aretha. Just the generic villa phrasing Josh. Frank Miller has this weird thing with Nazis. Can you tell me what any less weird thing like? If you had a thing with Nazis and Nazi symbolism always that are weird if Rick Miller always slips in those weird like he just he slips it in there. Just it's it's part of. I don't know what he's doing with. Nazis are they just a good effective bad guy because they're so universally evil but that would be nonstop. The weird part about Frank Miller though like the weird part about Frank Miller as he puts it in other places like you mean his his Nazi fetishism yet he puts S.'s on the hookers. He put swastikas. You know like people with Batman Tattoos on their ass cheeks. There was the scene in the bar. Wind white went to go recruit marv. And he's getting hassled by some yokels and one of them's wearing it help boy shirt and I was like. Hey that's Kinda cool. And then they like in different English as a Guy Senate next was wearing a Nazi armband. That's decidedly less cool. Well that made this panel not sweet anymore. That was my thought process to going back. I forgot about all swastika. Bullshit we're just. It's just weird to like have randomly pop up and be so obviously like what it is. Maybe it's because his like art style stark and I don't WanNa say two-dimensional two-dimensional certainly is in the right word because it's so stark and kind of block the he needs like stark imagery. Es Easy Logos to represent in has art style that could like just pop out of contrast. I guess are just has a compulsion to draw swastikas like those little s the middle schoolers stroll probably not great impulsion back to that bar scene. Though I do right now we'll get into the in the our section because that's it's a pretty cool little thing doesn't have to be a dedicated like art section. That's the way we do sean to have three episodes now yet. We haven't we haven't had a floor. Mat. We have had to format we. We do our talk and then we let you do your talk. That's not. Can we just clarify? That's not no. I am not a qualified expert I only qualifications that I like to look at pictures. Hey if I get elected homework from you guys than you can get elected with whatever heart title that we give you for extra analysis back and I'm Gonna I'm GonNa just say this panel just to cool. You asked me about my panel earlier. Tom And this is a page. Eighty five the panel on the page before the when you were just talking about. Rasputin is bowling in the bar. I think it's amazing. Hell way rescue. Yeah help way rescued him. He's saying I was a big deal. I just thought that was a cool little and I think isn't there seen later on when Marvez like literally spanking Wolverine. Yes we've yet and we will definitely looks like 'cause frank I would say just look like Wolverine I would say he's pretty obviously meant to be. Wolverine is as a huge call back to that era. Frank's life for sure. I didn't intend this favourite panel discussion to be a serious talk. I just wanted to know what was your favorite panel for me. It's the one on page one seventy-three where he's calling a threaten her. Because it's always been my secret dream to be a crazy eyed bandit headman. Oh that's an that's an office. Dream extremely attainable. If I ever become a superhero fiber gets superpowers to make my costume. You'd better believe I'm going straight to crazy is in. Bandaids on the face. That's GONNA be some tedious application every time to change your outfit. I'm never gonNA. You're GonNa always be Mike. What was your favorite? I want my shot. What are your favorite panels? I said Mike I said Mike Sean so I guess I said Mike I says well I mean that the penalties were Kinda looked at a lot of the pennells and like the all of the panels. You know I I. I read the whole book early. Looked at most of the panel yes. I stared longingly. A few panels look so middle part where I guess there was a betrayal that I didn't look at some people would say. That's not super important but Point of the book but you whatever material were obviously know a lot of the panels? I like the art because it was. I'll get into later. But it was just kinda creepy face like you guys were talking about. But I like a few of the panels some of the bigger ones. I don't have the actual pictures on me. But like the ones that show the silhouette of the woman the hair going through it or whatever it is. It's very scripted. She's coming out of the bath. Tub steams coming out for body yeah. I think that's the one I was going to be a a titties panel the one standing in front of the moonlight where she's like half lit up and half not. Yeah just some of the juxtaposition that you get in some of the uncool. This comic is one hundred percent juxtaposition. Yeah it is. I didn't know that because I thought it was to. The only reference I had was the movies I thought is going to be like slightly colored in which is like exaggerated super saturated colors but then I realized like halfway into the colors never gonNA come. I mean that's that's as far as I mean how far you want me elaborate. Are we going around? That's Great Sean. What was your favorite panel age? Jake's team is probably up there for me because 'cause the guy that Dwight's falling on has a comically tiny penis. The panel is tied to the better. The panel is actually dropped on when he's getting trump's on okay. Oh there's to help boy. So the that one panel talk about in the bar? That guy has a few short and later. One of the hookers has helped wake chain. Yeah she has the full like help way little character on her. It's kind of cool. Another big our favorite panels out of the way at segment again. I feel actually GONNA turn into a segue. I just wanted to mention it because you mentioned it and then it turned into this segment but now Mike. What did this book make? You feel what city do for you make okay. So if something's is this a segment I just want to know what Mike has a think about it but it seems like a thing. If there's one thing you can guarantee it's going to happen in a book. Tompkins say you want to know what I didn't like and Mice GonNa say it made me feel some things you guys can be on the face about what you don't like the sooner. I can stop being the bad guy. No we want you to be that guy. That's just an ugly picture man. That's all all right so like I said I would into a and I was like all right. The only frame of Reference I had was the movie says like all right I. I think it's to line up. Pretty well I don't know why I thought that but I just had a feeling and then I started reading and then I realized Oh it's GonNa be about black and white. Philip are hourly earnings neuro. So I'm reading it and then I started looking at the panels like the art in the penalty specifically the faces and just clever like Josh thing. It's all juxtaposition but I liked that style more reading it or got more into like are in. This is kind of cool color would have ruined it. And then I noticed there's just a lot of titties shit like you know but at the same time I do feel like it was written by Dude in like a very traumatic dude because it just felt like Ibo while the time lots that's new are but yeah it's also Frank Miller in general what you want. I've Zemo someone say brooding knows good. I liked it. I liked the savage in some of the characters are like that the whole town of US assets. Sean is a whole. Just assassins assassinating. That's just what they do and they surgeons to. That's definitely their first job. No I liked. I thought it was great book. Read more like I'm not. I'm not upset about happened. Go back and read that I spoke. It was the most adult oriented comic that I've read. So far. I like that Sean. What are you what city do for you? I don't know what Sin City ever do for me. Just takes it takes give. I give adverse reaction to the city. No I like it. I mean it's it's a it's a popcorn read I. I honestly enjoyed it enough. I mean it's a bit. It's a bit hyper masculine at times. But it up. Okay find to be trying to be in a very self serious way but that is just very what Frank Miller does like in everything. His art style works very well for his writing style because he is very black and white Thomas trying to say earlier that art was maybe not flat but something about it I think he was. Just there is no mid tones it is. It is one hundred percent or one hundred percent black and really. That's kind of his writing style too. I wish you could helped me with that earlier. No I like letting you flounder. He was saved over this. I got this in Frank Miller's Tough Guy Sissy good guy or a Nazi a man or a sexy woman. There's no like in between and that's very so I mean that's okay. That's good. That's definitely not the that's like sustainable leave enjoy long-term but it's in pieces. You can enjoy it. It's just gas popcorn. It is a bit much times. Yeah he gets. He gets a little overboard after rereading it. The words kind of had me choke in a bit when I was going through it as an adult. Trash ten-year-old Josh. Eight the shit up but adult jazz like man. This Steph is pretty rough and a lot of these bubbles. Don't need to be here. Yeah I think this is This is very obviously like a comic book from a different time. I think there were. There was a moment in history where most comic books were like this a moment. Some artists wish we could go back to. Yeah Dude and I don't fucking understand it. I don't necessarily think this terrible but it is kinda dry you know for what it is. It definitely doesn't have broad spectrum. Appeal this is not everybody could get into over her recommendation later. I got pretty thorough. -tated about halfway through that with very few exceptions almost all the women look the same both facially and you know in their more complete anatomy and the men don't necessarily look the same. There's a bigger range in like the build of the men from someone like the cop whose name I can't remember if Miz Morton Bob Bob the piggly one and Morton is like the clean cut looking one. You've got these. Like short chubby violator type character creatures like those. Those dudes look like creatures wrangler like draws every like cellulite thing. He could possibly buying to like durant those people and it's so weird right or you've got tall rooting tough guys of varying musculature. They're still not a lot of range or when I look at stories about multiple characters I kind of like to see like a visual difference at say a visual difference in you know to match their attitude difference. But they've all all the characters kind of have the same attitude in this to artistically. No we talked a lot on the hill. Boy Episode about the benefits of Mike Manolas very stylized art style. And I think with Frank Miller at least in this book and certainly with books that I've seen that I've read in the past there the panels that look really awesome with it but there are also just as many panels where it doesn't work. There's a panel. I can't remember the page where Manu Breaks Dwight's camera and I had to stare at that page for solid five minutes trying to figure out what was going on because to me it looked like a seller was exploding keg was flying out of it and I was trying to figure out why the seller explosion was being framed with such importance behind a major character and a pretty major scene but never mentioned. Yeah I do agree with that. Like some of the contrast does not work with the things that he's trying to put the page with the Avon jumping into the swimming pool when she's coming back up. I had to look at that one for a little bit like I get it after. I figured it out but it was definitely not apparent dat first glance right and that happens quite often throughout the book. Also feel that the dudes like even though you say they have basic looks to. I think he doesn't nail a single look for each character like their faces. Start DOING THAT. Flash tenure talking about in the last episode a lot. You're right. There's lots of panels where the faces look very different and he. He has a sing about him where he likes to draw in a lot of extra lines. There doesn't seem to be a lot of rhyme or reason to it. Sometimes he does it and sometimes he doesn't that so distracting to me. I'm sure other people Frank Miller seems to be a highly beloved comic Creator. So maybe there's something I'm missing. I didn't dislike this as much as I remember disliking the first one that I read. It's pretty paint colors noir. Revenge story at its basic element. I really love new revenge stories but I feel I the only thing separating this from something like e sees murder mysteries or crime. Stories is just the Frank Miller's art I feel like readers their love for Frank Miller in general as elevated this comic into a position of reverence that it definitely doesn't deserve which isn't at all to say that it's bad it's just to say it's not super great. Think I think is allowed to be good. I guess John. Do you have any thing else to say about the art of City Josh? Why don't you take us into some art here? You know who the audience doesn't know that yet. I mean let's your show man just sitting back here on. The catch is like hiding out on that fact that I think by this point. The audience has definitely sustained that. There are two artists that you have you guys because you guys have used the to Artie your terms. I don't really know archerd. I've never taken an art class. Don't really know art curve but you spit them out in every episode. So yeah you do take us through his tweet history lesson now you really do out of all of us leg. I I do do art and I do about art but I think the way shot articulates. The Art Passion is a little less Ruby. That I could do it so I appreciate what you do with the your words you talk about Art Sean. Appreciate because you don't have to do it on a say. Yeah please like I'll admit it. I am one of the. I think a majority of Comic Book Readers Overlook Lettering. And I'm definitely in that. It's like a sad reality of the literacy job that if you do a really amazing job no one will ever stop to think about it unless you're litter people really only pay attention to lettering when it's bad. I don't know enough about the science behind comic books to really get into it but I really liked the lettering in this hits clean and straightforward however. Good the bubbles are like the dialogue bubbles the interior lettering like the sound effects. Really good like they don't seem to distract. They seemed like organic. Like they're part of the art. And like it's Frank Miller. So of course they are like when he's drawing. These penalties joined the lettering as well and even more importantly when the lettering is unconventional like win any of the several times someone curls in this comic book or wind and someone just got jacked up real bad in their letters earl shaky leads. All very characteristic contribute so much to the art in a way that may be other letters are just there and they just tell you in this. I feel like everything's actually part of the art. Sean why could you would? It have children to jump on a job. I didn't want I didn't want that good job. Usually I do WANNA mess up your role. Some good passion going about the lettering of this book. Then you were on a roll knows. It's a really good page. One thirty eight up probably cut this part out but page one thirty eight. There's so many great different kinds of letters. Would you say I'll probably cut this out and then still go on to say it? If it's not worth saying as I just want you guys to see it's not worth saying it's worth it's worth you guys hearing so you know that. I that I know that I that I know what writers look like Rick. Miller do letters good. I've actually thought about this. I don't know what you wrote them. Another thing we'll get applaud here. Is that Frank? Miller decided to only let dwight narrate to this entire book. Hey that's good. It is good applaud that that is a fantastic part on francs. And you know something I hate about that though is I want to see like however like masculine this comic is like I guess that is just the time in the place that it was created. But what I what I would. There's no excuse for is the way he chooses to format some of those narrations by sticking them all to the side of a panel just having the right or left side the panel completely blank except for captions like there could have been so many more creative ways to solve that problem than the least creative solution. I think Mary just in a novel on the side of the panel. Zinc had column. Here have my have my beef with towards the end where there are so many expect vegas they the kind of press the limitations of what even is sequential art like win. Marv is Marvin. Dwight are watching Nancy at the bar. Right after her right before he recruits him like three splash pages and don't really go to serve any story. They're just big illustrations. Frank Miller wanted to do it's like let's censor these cover pages here here and here. 'cause sweet pertained to the scene that's happening but they don't. They're not necessary to drive the vehicle not telling the story. Yeah no it's just. It's definitely just visual candy. That's just I don't know if he chose to do it to fill pages or what while that's kind of also wear he shines? He's got definite strengths but he's also very definite weaknesses any panels that naturally have a lot of strong contrast where he can do a lot of bulky spots of black like the where you've got strong contrast lot of black and white that are not naturally not forced. He looks good. He excels uniquely at structuring those pages and playing with light in that way but in other pages where he has to kind of force some contrast in texture where it would otherwise be there like in the inbetween pages and kind of the Banal occurrences it kind of falls apart like when she was jumping into the water in the swing. Back up all those little lines and things eventually. It seems it doesn't really work as well. Because he's kind of forcing extra texture when in towards the beginning of the book when they're in a lot of like smokey scenes smoke isn't really a black and white thick line like that. It doesn't work as well. He goes to those splashy pages. Because that's really where he shines when he's got a chance to play with composition and play with lighting and frame a dramatic scene. That's that's where his art style works the best because when it starts that works it works very well but then when it doesn't work it's noticeably not working well. It's noticeably forest that he's trying to make work. That doesn't really work when he has to show a lot of details when he's hurting when he could heidel are things and shadow and play with some dynamic lighting and use a lot of silhouettes and stark contrast. He does great but the more you can see a character of the more well lit a CENA's he kind of starts to fall apart and I would just like to say. There were two instances in particular that were really jarring. I hate to call an artist lazy. 'cause that's really not fair. In terms of art is specially sequential. Art is difficult. Especially when you're a one man show is a lot of work to keep up with. But I feel like these two panels in particular when you've gone through and done all the work you've done on the whole comic up to this point and he's not the only person who's done it. There's other people who have done things like this but when you do is just so noticeable and it was really unnecessary. I one was on page one. Twelve the second to last panel Where it's close up on the characters. I looking up at Dwight where it's just it's not even. It's literally just as zoomed in Photoshop of the Pale next to it. They do that pretty quickly after that to one nineteen re panel with Damian's dead body. It's literally just the MS paint zoom of his face at the other one. Yeah that one's considerably worse St How textured granny moles with the twins he just obviously like copy paste and rotates transforms them. Because it's the same exact just standing next to itself in that it's kind of odd to see. Yeah it's jarring that everything is so especially when it's so stylized right at the one thing that you can't do especially if you aren't like that at one of Damien that's that's a very comparatively that's a very small head that he's zoomed in a lot. There's not a lot of like for him to want to be showing off. You've gotTA redraw that. It looks like it because sketch like in the rules. Sketchbook ahead. It looks like an ink blot. Yeah it's it's definitely not a complete form it's like not even a block. It's it's just like you're laziness just straight up in that panels this. I wonder why he chose to do it. That way. Instead of just making that splash page like he does other things. Right like let Less necessary things that could have been a splash. Page ages easily. I think that image is so fucked up like her laying there on the phone his body. It would've been way more powerful if it were just at the image takes you into like who able Lord is like. That's like the fucked person that you're dealing with. One thing I do like about Frank Miller even though it doesn't always work I like the fact that he uses so many different camera angles like he's not afraid to try angles even if he can't quite execute what he's trying to go for but he's still he he goes with it Screw I'M GONNA work out but there are. There's lots of attempts in more often than not I think successful attempts at interesting angles or interesting ways to capture a scene. Yeah more so than has artistic skill where he shines and I think the reason he has become kind of the fan favorite artist or at least the reason. He has the Niche. That he has today is because he is so adventurous in his layouts his angles in his lighting structure the way that he plays with panel composition when he works on his blocking his ankles and his lighting yet. He's adventurous doesn't let anything. Stop Him from like just trying to cool shot like he'll he'll go for it and I think he he is the reason. I have a lot of bad habits in my art work where try to go into like ultra detail? When I don't need to like I. I think it's starting to stem Frank Miller hair after rereading this looking closely at the panels in certain areas where the contrast doesn't work and he just decides like over analyze everything. Yeah I think I think I got a little that bad habit there because I definitely do that on illustration work when I don't color things I can't get over that panel on one seventy-three With a crazy is bandaid head. Craziest band-aid heads. Still I keep flipping back to it. That's super dark man. Shit Mike do you have to say about the work? Did you like it already? Kind of set. Everything had the but what more do you have to expand on that? 'cause I know you have more. Yeah I mean I didn't see it I guess That you guys saw it like I don't mind some of the splash pages like I don't mind some of the composition being a little wonky like is a little weird to read through with the the the all that information on the side that you're talking about earlier but overall I thought it was good. I thought it was ominous. Feeling like just with the contrast in some of it and it was like kind of Kinda more a lot of it was on refined in some some aspects and I just think that that fed to just the whole overall doom and gloom of the city like just it gave the ambiance for the entire thing and I think he did that really well and I think that other parts that are cringing part. But I think it's so uniquely him and he manifested that that it works. You know like you. Just use unapologetic about it. He's just like that. He's like comic book like Living Care. Is this your first exposure to frank? Miller is that is so like spot onto who he is as a human can tell translates pretty much in everything that he's done. It really does like you can pick up any book and read it through like Oh that was probably a Frank Miller book if it was yet and you drawn by him handed pretty much all aspects is pretty accurate. If you had to sum up in just two words those would be them. Yeah I mean I dug it part of artists of those Kranju but I understood why they chose to go back to the splash. Pages real quick. Although they are unnecessary I think that the bigger splash pages Panels that are almost pages are probably some of Frank. Miller's best like artistic works in this book you're not wrong and it's not every splash page that I have a problem with like those three particular ones. Yeah Especially in that point of the story where it's pretty much a at a speedy pace in those just cut into it. Slow it down a bit January some other pretty bad ones too but for the most part I think he he does a lot better with a bigger canvas and does the smaller canvas and he doesn't ever make us flip the book the wrong way. No he doesn't which I really appreciate it. The sign of a true artist's right there. You said you boys have any anything else. You'd like to add for insight on the city. Yeah this episode. Wasn't like nearly as inflammatory as I thought it was going to get. I was really hoping you Josh. Should be at odds a little more. You guys are real disappointing. I think Shawn had these expectations coming into this thing. Like I kind of felt that when he was talking to us in the group has. I don't know if it's GonNa go down like that though has shown has a good reason. I've really disliked Frank Miller's or crew long long time like I said I wasn't crazy about the first sin city I'm pretty vocal and my distaste for his work on Batman with the exception of year one and especially later in his career anything he does as artwork is stylized to the point of self butchery. That covers superman with Adang. Lor I think in Cincinnati where he's in own element and he's doing his own thing. It's a bit more tolerable like when you when you see Frank Miller `ISMs applied to Batman. It feels so wrong and out of character because like Frank Miller is so he so against compromising like himself in the things that he finds interesting things that he wants to do to give a damn about what fits with the character. And what doesn't so when he applies them to Batman like you have the sleep persistent feeling that this doesn't feel like Batman. These aren't like Batman things to do. This is the way Batman would handle it. And you can't shake that because you've got you know decades of that character coming before it but sin city doesn't have that hindrance. Everything in is exactly the way Frank Miller wanted to be so he can apply Frank Miller `ISMs to it as much as he wants his universe and it doesn't damage the work nearly as much as it does like when he's handling a property that isn't his own when Cincinnati first came out. I thought Frank Miller was the director. All he did. He Co directed the movie with a guests after that for like a couple years. I thought that Frank Miller was just director. Zack Snyder. I think it's got the same number of syllables in their name. Oh I didn't know. He wrote complex illustrating a comics. He thought he was just still movies. Yeah I thought. Who's just a movie guy? DidN'T THEY DO AEROBIC Cup to I. Think a Robocop two or three. He did one of the bad ones this point in his career. Frank Miller would definitely be an movies. I think that robocup thing is what deterred him so long from being movies though because there was just such asked her the dispelled him from being anywhere near real right so it looks like he wrote Robocop two and Co wrote Robocop three on. I feel like those movies are exactly what you'd expect from. I don't know let me let me just. I'll try to clarify it as best as I can. It's not a bad book. It's not a great book. It's just kind of middle of the road in terms of quality. That's just pretty surprising because nothing about. This book is middle of the road. As far as nothing about Frank Miller's art her writing structurally is middle of the road but that extreme excess that extreme uncompromising one way or the other kind of makes it the road right. So Sean he gets so much in there that it just comes off as too much and then just kind of blows away into the wind. I don't think that he puts too much in there. Because I don't think it's a deep comic book I don't think there's a ton of content in it going art ways it's like everything in it is styled up to eleven and maybe in that way the illusion of like a girth of content but yet it's good but it's just not a super deep book and there's nothing to really think about beyond what. Dwight's dilemma isn't it's pretty like Sean set black and white because this entire thing is like a white like Frank Miller's entire world so I was looking at the I was just kinda throwing through final pages final thoughts and I got to the bar scene where that guy was talking to the barmaid go. The Nazi kept warn them. And then Marv just like busted his arm and smashes face on the bar but then when it shows the guy he's like bleeding out of his butt in his ankles in his wrists in shoulder his elbow at his head. And the MARV kill that guy that guy. The guy has a goop head and his hands are smashed into the ground. Holy Shit Yeah. He's got like anal blood poop. It just showed marv break his arm and smashes face but then later it just shows him. Yeah he's just he's a Saab Knocking pile on the floor now. That's that's right Miller. One hundred percent bar is probably the coolest aspect of Sin City because it's like the focal point of everything. The one thing that ties the entire series together is that bar. So is this just cheers. Frank Miller's cheers follow the cast after they go home pretty much. Yeah each issue goes starts. Katie's Barton follows some drunk escapades mets. That's what we get. Maybe MARV's the frazier of the group. Everybody just wants to go where everybody knows their things. We didn't touch anything on the miraculous. Surgeries that these women of Old Town Dwight that only yeah the assassin ladies have old town not good with knives so they'd obviously make good surgeons. Well not only did. They cut boys chest open but apparently someone slid their hands in and massaged his heart. They brought him back to life but massaging her and then they gave him with them the week. A sweet scoreless cosmetic and is a completely different character. Now was it a week. I got the impression it was like. Months is weaker months. They don't have a good passions time. That was another issue Josh to make a concession it was either a week or months apart be real. He didn't say he doesn't have a really good concept. It was some time passed. I say week because that's just a good standard but that does not defeat the purpose or the fact that the surgery was probably the most miraculous thing that's ever happened in cities since Roy took over. Well let's be fair. Frank Miller didn't write a lot of books about city prior to works takeover. We don't have frank if you're listening some of those stories out but on top of that you're back to your favorite dark man bandaged head panels. Tom He goes to visit minute back. Lords compound woman is recovering and then he surprised that minute realizes that it's him after he comes off the train for why would he even? Why bother going to see that guy? The a lot of little things like that happened throughout the story. And it's obvious that frank was just making points to progress story but I feel like Frank Miller way. Maybe the charm of him is that he doesn't over plan things like I. I know we've all read comic books that have one hundred percent over orchestrated. And what's Nice about? Sitting down to a Frank Miller comic book is is going to be just like a pulp novel. Like you can sit down and you can read it all in one taken on. Have to think a lot about it at the end like Sean said like a popcorn flick. You have those questions that you throw at the movie theater screen when stupid. Shit like that happens so I guess yes now that we got into the deep dark world of the sweaty hot dark secret. Sin City has hold. We're GONNA get into. Our final thoughts was passed the baton to Sean John. Let your sweet sexy voice lead us and okay guys. As Frank Miller would put it. You either had thoughts on this comic or you're a Nazi. Tom Hit me with it it. Cincinnati is Cincinnati volume to a dame to kill for. It's just it's a middle of the road comic. It's a pretty clean translation of the great pulp traditions. You can sit down. You can read it in one reading which I appreciate. I don't think it's great but I don't think it's bad and I think there's enough artistry to it and there's enough straightforwardness to it that it would do well for somebody's first comic book read so for that reason. I would recommend it. Mike can you please s Josh? What he thinks about this book. Just Sir what is your opinion on this on this piece of a literary genius garbage. Let us know what. Mike. Let me. Ask My correspondent Josh to get back to that one josh. What do you have to statement this book? All Right Josh Sin City named killer. I think is a good starting off point for anyone that's not familiar income it's kind of a brazen book and it kind of goes to some weird dark places but hey that's kind of the fun of Sin City and it takes you into a star Kat secrets wedding night of the city of San. So I I think yeah. I recommend this book Sean. Yeah what you say. I say that I'd like to hear what Mike says. So I kind of agree with Josh's opinion on this one it was. It was a darker comeback. I like that. It was kind of my first foray into something like that so I liked. It was your first experience with booby comics. Yeah I got to see some titties. That's never thing I got to see some violent. You know it's just like one of those like it's like a novel and in some of its kind of crazy now like you look back in a God. I guess it was written like Tom in a different time but I can appreciate that so I recommend it five stars. I've stars I mean Frank Miller tradition five stars no stars so I would agree with Thomas Forrest. This book has artistry the in General I hesitate to call it in art book though it is. Very Art. Centric it's just a little too brash. To be considered an art book I suppose I have a problem giving a blanket recommendation. Because I feel that this actually doesn't have a very broad cross section of people who in this would be an instant fan? I I would definitely feel comfortable recommending it to someone that I knew but if it was someone I didn't know I really that would be kind of a toss up. This is definitely this is a this is an enjoyable book. Like I said I enjoy it. I actually already previously owned a few volumes of Sin City. But because this is so hyper masculine in hyper violent and not really done away. That's very accessible to a lot of people if it's very it's very male fantasy and obviously I'm I'm fine with it but I don't think everybody would be fine with it. I could not give us a blink recommendation source second non unanimous vote although this one is a recommendation council recommendation when you guys definitely outweigh me. This one is non unanimous but the as have interesting times we live in it. Looks like overall on the whole? This book is a comic doors recommendation. Let's find out what we're going to be reading next week. Let's fire up the select domestic. Push the buttons twist the KNOBS? You always get the flip leather off. Let Oliver. There's a sweet roping in from the ceiling. I've never want senior pull it and you've never stopped the. Ddr DANCE FED now. What does that even four? You'll find out when we get to the specials what about the School Sheba at the bottom. What does that do you guys want? The select to select are not deep. Watch watch it do its thing I would like. I would like to see the Select Matt. Go all right. Let's make it do. Its thing pocket book for next week. Nailed it by the way. That was five next week. You guys are in for a treat. We are going to be reading shirtless bear fighter. This was a pseudo pick for Mike. When we were setting this up he had an empty slot that we had filled yet. But we needed to make our first selection so I just filled it in with a book that I thought he would like. Mike why do you think you would like this book? And do you think our listeners are going to enjoy this book? Give us the synopsis. Why you think it might be. Yeah you pick this book now you tell us what stops us of this book is that you love some no easy. So there's a guy and then for the longest time he's like Oh man I've been forced to wear these shirts. These like these societal chains that hold me down and one day. He gets into a terrible airplane crash but he survived somehow. But he's got he got like What's that movie with Tom? Hanks he got casted away. But not in the not on an island castaway in the forest cast it yet. No you got casted away. And the whole time. He's going through this. Eventually of bear stills. His shirt is favorite. Shirt is only shirt so he goes shirtless and then he has to get revenge on this bear because now he's exposed. He's getting bit by mosquitoes. He's getting chafed nipples like he's just one of a society and this fascist shirt that he was wearing. You mean. You made shirts out now. It's like he wants revenge ensure back. Yeah because it's the whole thing. The CHARACTER ARC is. I learned to love this shirt. Because the chains are belt their insistence offender blanket making him feel comforted. He's he's missing society so at the time he's like. Oh I hated it at one point but now I'm coming back around to it. I just wish I had this shirt to reaffirm my change in my view of society. So he has to go kill this bear. Obviously it's GonNa turn into the revenue on a thing right. He's going to kill the bear. It's GONNA turn into winter. He's going to have to live in the bear for the winter but then eventually he gets his shirt out. Because you have to open up the bear to live in it and He's going to go back into society and realize he really just wanted to be in the forest and he's GonNa Apologize For Kildare. Who's it going to apologize to? And the bears his shirt just to eat it okay. He's going to apologize to the forest or the lower acts or whoever? He has to apologize to make things right. This man became spiritual was he always spiritual or is this no backstory. No his becoming spiritual he just. He doesn't know what he's praying to but he knows that there's a higher power in the forest bullet points here are man gets had a crash learn of his shirt just as he loses his shirt fights. Bear becomes remorseful becomes a wiccan. Yes I mean that's just the beginning of it and that's just the beginning of it. Okay well tune in next week to find out Mike. You're pretty close. I'm sure you're you're right on it. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised so there. You have a guy shirtless bear fighter. I will tease to you. Guys that Mike try to make it as it seemingly ridiculous as he could and if you can believe it he was not ridiculous enough. Read the book your cells to out why and with that. Our job is done. We invite you to join in the conversation and send in your own recommendations by reaching out to us on facebook twitter or Instagram. We are at comic doors on all platforms or you can reach out to us by email at commodores gmail.com or comic doors. Jamais DOT COM. Or any other ludicrous address. Sean might have set up tune in next time as we tackle tackler next comic door. Selection shirt was bare fighter. Don't forget San Diego. Listeners can get twenty percents off both city dame kill for and shirtless bear fighter at kamikaze by using our super secret code. Words select automatic. I happen to know that. At least one of those books is sold out currently at kamikaze but the great news is that the discount applies to back order. Titles as well so just order it. Let them know you want it annual still get that discount for the comic doors. I'm Tom Beavis Sean. Corbin Jesuit shepherd dote shown pocket food. This is Michael and keep on digging. Had to do it because everyone else did it like I had to do it. Mike did it. John did it. I obviously intern had to do it. You had to have been expecting that. But I've muted Sean. Instead of you I did. I did try to talk over to. I tried deal pocket popcorn more type gut to me Tom. I'm sorry until next time. Keep digging pocket popcorn.

Frank Miller Josh Sin City Mike Sean Dwight Mike MARV MARV Tom Cincinnati US toby Wright Old Town Tom He Batman Marvin Marvin Dwight MARV Sean John Middle Ground Nancy Dark Horse Comics
Local Hour: J.T. Realmuto

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

Local Hour: J.T. Realmuto

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He Dan lebatardshow podcast is brought to you by capital. One capital. One is reimagining banking offering accounts with no fees or minimums that can be opened in five minutes Capital One. What's in your wallet, Capital One? And all. Oh, real meat does gone. What a trade that lab. That's dunk. JT finally traded it within the division. Not that that I guess matters as much anymore, but Billy's actually look pretty good there lineup coming together. If they if they add Harper Machado that Phillies team is going to be sneaky awesome. That your team. Right. The Phillies at all, right? She gave a thumbs up which doesn't help. Are you excited about what the Phillies are doing this off season? Didn't they get mccutchen? I think they have mccutchen cut into. I'm pretty sure I mean, that's not really this old Rosser Philadelphia Phillies, Billy how do you feel about trading JT within the division? I don't think it matters much. Yeah division. Really? Yeah. Well, because the Phillies have two years of control. So they'd have to sign them long-term and realistically the Marlins are not going to compete for the division for two years. Right. I mean, do you think they are? I don't know. No, no. I gotta just take the best offer. It doesn't matter where it comes other top pitching prospect, which is good who's ranks. He's ranked twenty seventh. I think in the top one hundred prospects. She's an increase over our top prospect, Victor Victor who was ranked. He shined denying right up to our top prospect, which is good. And and you got to catch her in return to the supposedly that's someone in the plans to replace JT. Eventually what kinda hitter he is he happy that he can't possibly be the same kind of hitter. Obviously like, no one's actually seen this. I mean, he he actually was up at the Phillies a little last year. But the catcher apparently has potential to be a good hitter. He's got apparently one of the best arms of any catching like even in the pros or minor leagues. Like this. His arm is top notch. But apparently defense not great blocking balls framing not a string catching catching. He's great at right? He's got a Cheech though. I mean, it'd be a starter is like when your laptop and our depth jet. So he'll be our start of the starter or it. So you already got he's got a starting catcher return. Yeah. You need. Not going to start. I didn't know because I just assumed it was all prospect. I would imagine that the pitching prospects. Sixto Sanchez who's our number one prospect all of a sudden, I don't think he'll start in the majors. Right. What do you think? No. I don't know. He was able last year. I'm looking at this Phillies Rosser right now, they got Hoskins and other guy GT going to have a bunch of names that you probably don't know. I know obviously, no mccutchen to Gora. Hoskins and JT Margaret Machado. Harper Machado is they're starting staff. Good enough because Nola is area to still good. Not really right Vince Vasquez. I don't know if they're they got to do something for this pitching staff. No. I mean, they're gone a lot better. A couple years ago, the Phillies were goof. Yeah. Once Hoskins came up. Yeah. Absolute beast, right? It's a beast. Everyone learned about him at the home run derby, inches and bad. He's okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, those good last year. Yeah. I mean, they had like a lot of people don't know. But they're sneaky good these Phillies team. They absolutely have let Billy like overall. Like this. I judging by your vibe, you seem okay with this deal. Which is hasn't been the case for many of these traits. I mean because it doesn't really matter if you've had this mission. No, I look they're not going to compete, right? They already tore down the team they traded away Stanton yellows Oona. Now, they traded away JT, but like JT on this team. They have them for two years and they're not going to compete with him. So why not get rid of him and try to improve down the road like, but at what point does that end? Because it seems as though it's a cycle. Like, oh, we're not good enough. So we might as well, they're not going to be good enough us closer to good. Well, because they're not going to be good enough in two years for sure they not built for two years from now. And they're gonna lose him in two years, and he doesn't seem to want to be here. So you gotta go. I mean, if you can improve by getting what difference does it make if they win sixty five games. With J T Rome Utah or if they win sixty three games without him. You know what I mean? Whatever the number is it doesn't make a difference. If you can get your number one prospect back in trade for him. Why not do it the overall sentiment? And I don't know anything about major league baseball prospects. Is that I mean, historically, the Marlins have kind of whiffed on the prospect holes that they have gotten before and the reaction this one is generally positive, the reaction is generally positive. I think the consensus that they got the most back for this trade that they did for any of the deals. I mean, I think the Zuma one right would be the second best on now on that list. We got a good pitcher the con-. Yeah. They got Sandakan Tara back in that trade, and he's probably going to be we'll know he will be in our rotation next year. And he's a young ace pitcher. So we'll see I mean, it's thinks I'm torn because I'm like holding out hope, and I'm going to not judge these moves because you won't know for a couple of years, but obviously it stinks. I mean, look at our lineup from two thousand seventeen or opening day lineup. Nobody like that hitting lineup that everyone was like this is a good line. Yup. Nobody's on. And it's not like they were going to spend like they had people locked in on value contracts. Right. And they were young guys. So I just don't understand why they did that they were honestly just a couple of pitchers away from being one of the best teams in major league baseball. I truly it was stand contract. It was the stand contract. I feel like that made. The jeeter crews be like we are spending way too much money, and we needed to start over because they had no farm system. Like, you can't just go out and keep spending after you give Stanton that contract. If you have no farm system to just go out and pay a couple of pitchers. That's just not a long term plan. I think it was a chant contract to be honest with you and understanding that because Chen was such a waste of money and he's still on the team, and he's a waste of money going forward at sounds harsh. But it's the truth. The guy hasn't really produced anything, and he's costing us twenty plus million dollars a year. And he's not even starting every game. And when he does start he does okay at home on the road. He's a mess, and you can't when you have that much money tied into one pitcher that's not producing it doesn't make sense to throw money in other directions. One thing that I noticed in this deal is I got more international allocation money, which seems to be a new strategy of the Marlins. That's how they got Victor. Right. I guess that's how they're going to bolster their their minor league prospects as well. That's a way that you could actually do that without making trades. They spent so much on the Victor victor's. I think they spent all the money that they had on the two on Victor, Victor and his brother, and he just acquired a quarter million in this deal. Yeah, I need to look into that. Because I'm not a hundred percent. Sure exactly how that works. But I think there are restrictions like year to year on how much you can spend. So the fact that they spent all their money last year. I think puts them in a worse position next year, but they've acquired money which will help them out. So I is that role in place it just prevent like the Yankees from getting everybody. I guess. I mean, everyone has the same amount of money when you start. So it's not like the Yankees can go, and they can say like I'm going to give this person the international money is different from like if you wanna get players from Japan, or whatever that's not international money. I don't believe that's more for like people that are not drafted, and it's like international signings that I do not believe is Japan, but it could be wrong. So Gordon Ragas name was bandied about yesterday during the trade deadline, Utah seems like a pretty obvious fit for him didn't end up happening. It was going to be for Rubio. Right. That would have been actually pretty cool. I would've liked Ricky Rubio down here. I just saw his name Benito about the move that they made with Tyler Johnson and Wayne Ellington going and Ryan Anderson coming does give them a little bit more flexibility. But it seems as though to me he cultures more about getting under the luxury tax and actually competing for championships lately. Because if that's he culture, then we can give that a certify -able success story. And all they have to do is. Played Kelly Olympic less. So he doesn't get an escalator. So it'll be interesting to see how they go about this. It can also do some other creative things. I'm sure but to get under that luxury tax line you have to sort of limit the amount of minutes. Kelly Olympic makes because there's an escalator. Two thousand hundred what what would make more sense seventeen something seventy. Yeah. It's just it's just a bummer that well, it's a bummer that this team as president presently. Constituted is flirting with that luxury tax later, we criticised like you can you can't blame Mickey for wanting to be under that tax. We snow. You can blame the heat for having. If you look at NBA salaries for a prior to that trade we were at the top. We were number one. We were number of money spent on player contracts, and the what was at the end of that rainbow was a team that was what two games under five hundred. Now, I mean, what did the sons benefit from taking that Tyler Johnson contract? Was that literally just James Jones James Jones he'd life her? Like, why would he get? He wanted like helped like why would he want to help the heat to his like is? I mean Tyler Johnson going to be like a main player for that. I don't know in Tyler Johnson got had a trade escalator which was a bit of a poison pill in that deal too. So Tyler Johnson the paid even more money now than if he were just to stay down here. But solid deal for the Miami Heat does provide them a little bit more flexibility one thing I was looking through Anderson's contract. And the guarantee he's got a twenty one million dollar deal or close to that. But if he's waived before July, ninth he greed to a partial guaranteed to get moved to Phoenix fifteen six. Yeah. So I mean that has value in a two I don't know if they trade it. Or if they just eat it and limit the actual cap it because Tyler would have been nineteen million next year. So that's like a three and a half, man. Save right. Yeah. And they got it's it's a bummer to see Wayne Ellington, go. I know that he wasn't part of the rotation as much this year. He was such a fan favourite last year. He hit a Jillian three pointers. He you could not leave him open. He was the man with the golden arm, and I'm gonna miss. Well, that was just as nickname that. It's almost like Eric while I was trying to do that. But subtly can we talk about Christmas thing that he came up with before the show that he's already come up with the forty forgot he came up with the beta? What is it? All right. I think that we should banned all markets together as one sports team like down here. We've got the heat the Panthers the dolphins the Marlins trades should be able to go through different sports like we should be. We should have been able to trade Goren drug each for Nick foles. You've absolutely have come before. This is absolutely something you've done be on air. Maybe I don't know. This has been something that you've done on. That would be fun. Imagine it whoever needs six four five six three. So most trades stupid who has the most trade value of our team. And by our team. I mean now Florida I think we just traded the guy JT, I think barky I think JT because he that position is such a premium itself, Florida, that's brower thing. Right. Like, that's what you say. If you live in Broward, you say south Florida like trick. People think Miami Tri county known for Miami says south Florida tonight. I gotta do. I don't I don't ignore the Sam for Miami. I do. Well, I'm not from Miami. Yeah. Like, you're right. They're like when you're out like, let's say, you're in New York and people are like where are you from? What's the first thing? You saw me say Miami say, south Florida. And then if they get more Hansie with it, I say, I say like just out of jail. Suburb before Lauderdale Miami fort Lauder, greater Miami, Fort Lauderdale. I mean, you guys could just go Miami. You don't really you live. You live. Somebody say Kay town chemical the fullest all day every day, not as many people. I always thought four Lauderdale's like some people you go places in Fort Lauderdale, really famous city. I know that's what I thought. I'm telling you. I've gone been on cruises. And I'm like four Lauderdale, and they're like, I'm like, Miami, probably on a cruise at left out of Fort Lauderdale, when they ask you where for a lot of it was I mean, I'm telling you, I'm telling you people not everyone so JT are we in agreement that JT previously had the most trade value. I mean, we could asteroid like either way he's gone now. So who has the most trade value out of all the sports teams down here for a team, south Florida slash Miami slash Fort Lauderdale slash k down is a barcode. Are we ball cost like what barky get back, ROY? If like they put them on the market. Like, would it be cross, sport wise? Oh, so the people can understand. Yeah. Good question. I don't know good question. It obviously have to be a town that has a hockey team. Do we get back David Joko for more rain on on? You gotta get more for that. In the top one hundred NHL players, whereas bark off like put put them in perspective for me, say probably he's definitely tough fifty. You. Couldn't get in joke because Cleveland doesn't have a hockey team. Can we lump in Columbus? If he's in the forty year because we're lumping in Fort Lauderdale the team, south, Florida. There's no Fort Lauderdale Markey's the forty second ranked player he might be pretty comparable to JT because JT might have been in the top might JT might be spending sixty Markov flare isn't poor 'cause hold like reputation is that he's the best two way player in the NHL. Yes. Absolutely. This is such a bad topic zero people of called it will call in for anything and zero people have called holiday calling in because I remember you doing it before they're calling into give their things like their trades across sports, and no one has any interest in. Oh, guys, we should tease this because we need to recover from how bad the segment David saves. David Johnson's coming up at nine thirty five. But I finally watch the mass singer. And I'm in on this show with you guys. Okay. Let's consider the secret life of the innermost. Nesting doll living most of her life in the duck inside the other nesting Dole's. He has plenty of time to think if could sadly, she has no brain, however, when an in a most nesting dole, his gyco not only saves people money, but also has been providing great service for over seventy five years. She thinks it's obvious. You should switch because. Yes. Switching to gyco is a no brainer pity in most nesting Dollond her lot in life. Dr lebatardshow rapid it on here. Dan. Take you for a ride. Doc yourself in is what I meant not strap it on one hour. I meant strap yourself in here, Dan. Stugatz. Listen, it was a poor choice of words for phrasing. But I meant rep in because there are several big words coming up in this last story. Don't strap anything. With our show with stugatz on the ticket stupidity. The number one podcast in the nation in the sports and recreation category, not the exact the same fanfare. Not exactly being no bra right now. So soon God's army. Go ahead. Subscribe rate and review. Okay. The it took a while. I guess every listener in their cars was processing you're amazing segment that you already done before which is cross-border trades. But we finally got two calls of people with cross-border trades, essentially, the idea if you weren't listening before good on you, you're very lucky, but Chris had this idea. Again, the great idea where you lump all of your towns teams together, and you could trade essentially, Gordon drug for the example, Wiki Bill into his Nick foles who says, no, okay. So that's the concept. And now we go out to the phones to see if this the segment has any legs. And we don't feel good about it. So we go out to Jimmy Jimmy, go ahead. You got to trade for us. Yes, I'm from Los Angeles. And I know the Rams were just in the Super Bowl. But LA's already always been Lakers town, first and foremost, so Los Angeles traits Aaron Donaldson New Orleans for Anthony Davis who says no. That's a great. But I found because Jimmy I just found a loophole in all of this. It's unfair. Elliot's got two football teams. Yeah. That's true. I mean, New York has two football teams and basketball teams with Brooklyn because he got a lump in Brooklyn. I got to. Baseball teams, this is unfair. There would have to just be a GM. That's not like committed to one team. Because obviously the GM of the Rams is not gonna want to do that. Because how does that benefit him to like the mayor, right? The mayor of a town needs to be the GM and it sorry Rams. You guys had a run. But it's for the betterment of the city. We're going to bring an Anthony Davis helped the Lakers out. You guys will still be good. You've got a good offense. You election so much more fun because I feel obscene now running for mayor of Chicago. Yeah. You have all the GM's in a may oral Riley mayor of Miami Riley, mayor of Miami. Is that is that we want to trust that we want to trust them. Apparently, you know, I mean don't be afraid to make trade with somebody. That's not a former player. I'm so I'm so down on this, man. I'm so, but they did they listen to me for that. I thank you, Pat Riley because I- tempered expectations, and I said, I'm giving up on the dream of flipping Tyler Johnson's contract for anybody. Good just swap crap for crap. And you did that Pat Riley. We got Ryan Anderson, and I got a reason to tune in to see if you actually play him. Although I think you might because Kelly Lennox minutes restrictions because we want to get onto that luxury tax. We go out to Sean who's got another trade. Guys, another depress Lakers fan tier after yesterday lay said like college said earlier it is Lakers town at the end of the day. I grouped in Anaheim with Los Angeles as well. Just 'cause you know, sometimes they call they'll call it LA. Rule it applies approved. Okay. So I'm going up board here. I'm doing Mike trout. Sean McVeigh for James harden into dating clowning coaches. Now, this is. Okay. Okay. Chris, Cody, I see you. I see you. We just traded a coach. All right. Why don't we have so many people on the west coast going in? This is a local hour. You people are insane. Thank you so much for the call, Sean. Okay. We go out to James. He's got another trade coaches. He's got James is three topics. The these are in trades. Okay. All right. I like Brian. Let's go ahead. James you're on the air. All right. Yeah. I got three topics so topic. I tell me I or topic. I I. Roy you do the honors. I I know ROY does that. I all right. Good. All right. So this is a pet peeve. It's a it's a bathroom related team. And I wanted to CVS had any other bathroom related pet peeves? But when you're taking poop and you're on an automatic toilet. And you accidentally like shifts and a certain way, and if you don't fly ship. Yes, sorry shifts and the toilet flushes before you're ready. I hate that. And that's you know, you get water sprang up underneath you. It's terrible. I hate it too. That's a pet peeve show. Would I all right? We go now to I. Okay. So I went to Walgreens yesterday, and I had to get Nyquil and the Nyquil buy one get one fifty percent off. So I'm like, well, I wanna get to. But I we use Nyquil Allott. And there was a there was a two pack though. I contemplated getting four. But then I'm like, okay. Well, the lady is gonna think that I'm a frigging crackhead if I get four Nyquil. So I was just wondering what you guys were done that situation with you've gotten to just void judgment from the cashier. Yeah. I have I would have bought as many as I wanted and just explained to her that I was just going for the bargain. Four. And I was like, you know, I'm not I'm not I'm not making drugs. I'm just you know, on a few seven in the praise of the deal that you're getting like when you're talking to the clerk just to throw off the scent that you might be a junkie say. Wow. Two for one. Can you believe it? I I've had I've run into that issue with soda before. Because I don't really like to buy soda because it's bad for you. And I feel like people are judging you, but they have this thing with a twelve pack of soda sometimes. It's by to get one free you but people don't overdose on soda. I know. But it's just I just feel like a like a freak where I'm not buying anything else that I'm just walking up to the register with three twelve packs of coke James so far. I love this call and you have one topic left. And it's the last one on the board topic. I please. Okay. Well, hopefully, there's something about the worst one. But I was going to microwave something this morning, and you'll have says like you can make way for one to two minutes. I just wanted to get your thoughts. Do you do you don't for one? Or do you go for two minutes or you split it down the middle and do like a minute and a half. I go one minute. And then I'll. Yes. Put my finger in it give it a field. I don't like to over microwave things I'd like to over nuke things because I like my food piping hot as one to two minutes. I'm going to minutes. It's open. Open door Roy's pack here ROY put stuff. Like, didn't you say once it was like it was just like an a leftover meal with like a little meat a little potato little vegetable you Mike waited for like three minutes. I did it wasn't. It wasn't little beat. It was a lot of it's redo. It was like veggies. Two minutes is plenty of veggies for like, eight minutes. The other day knows three. I want you open that container in the highest. No, you don't want it gets chewing, especially meat. You don't wanna over Mike wave meet because microwaving some something you are messing with the chemical composition of the food. So it's not the same sort of experience. It's gotta be pretty any leftovers. Two minutes is plenty it's plenty hot begging for judgments do what you do. Is you go min and a half, then you stir right or? A minute shift around later, and then you straight minutes doesn't do anything s after a minute. And how much more time heat up China rotate, the food you ever heat up Chinese food. And you think you do it. Right. And like you burn your mouth on the on the first, and then you take a bite out of the middle. And it's it's got ice in it. And you're like how is this possible? How is I just burn my mouth on this and parts of it are still cold that doesn't make any sense, James? You can go to the front line. Anytime you eight James what do you do? He's an over. I do sales for an aspirin Foods cO. Oh, you'll get night. Now, you're asking me what I do in the microwave. I do I do over. I always do the most. We what do you do for? What do you do in sales and food? I that's my you're asking what I do for my job. It'd be asking. Well. That I don't know. Secretive about it. No, I do sales for natural foods company. I tell him Booja get no collusion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tasty stuff. Not really my bag. But I appreciate the call or it can Bucci later James later. I love that guy. Call that was a really good call. All right. Who should we go out? She now Judy online one is the guy with the Greg Cody ten, oh, according to juju juju is that. You are you indeed the person with Greg Cody calf tattoo with the block letters above Greg. Cody animated face at say, Cody. He's I am. I am have prove it. I could send it to you guys on Instagram. I go out and give you my Instagram. My latest picture had the picture share. What is Instagram? Let's wait is ju ju on a date. You jay. Okay, Jen, and you can confirm for us that this is like not one of those like month-long tattoos. This is like a permanent for real. I send it to you guys DM like a couple months ago when I first got it. Doesn't need have this. Greg coach guy, are you? Are you actually a marine biologist? Absolutely not. That's how I get. That's how I get women. Okay. Well, what do you tell them? What's your pickup line is a marine biologist you Dr juju Gotti? No, I go out to the beat sometime, and you know, by some wells. Change you. Let's talk about the tattoo number one. What what compelled you to get a tattoo of Greg Cody on your calf to say way feels dance. They, you know, sometimes he gets looks at great coding and just get happy. You know, he doesn't say they for me every time he talks he makes me wanna be old. You know, I never wanted to be. Oh, I never had a Jayme of being older one day. And now I thought I I do wanna be oh, do you have any other people tattooed on your body? You got him. Just just the guys is on money. You know, all the faces on each money right now in in your most recent Instagram post. I see I see. Yeah. Enter jackson. I think I see Ulysses grant. And I see Greg Cody on your legs. So what did the tattoo artists say when you asked for this? Is white guy. And then I gotta Jan Lewis blamed doing that. And even even deeper than that, I was going through a rough patch one time, and I tune into you guys. And it was the day that he was singing California love, and it made me so happy that Aki at the end. And I almost fell out man is incredible. We're talking to juju Gotti who is the man that has Greg Cody calf tattoo. Do you have any interest in getting my face on your other calf? Absolutely not use it. I think. And maybe one day. I don't know how it's not finished. You know what I mean? Either way I was gonna get a whole meal, but I didn't go back yet bureau. Greg. Mirror of you, guys. Oh, wow. God that was bad. Oh, God, you it's awesome. Steven eight by the way, I see that you met Steven at the Super Bowl. It was amazing. I got to ask him some some some candidate questions, and you will be surprised the answers. That's quite the LA. And he is he is not six one. He is like six eight. You're tall to juju guy. You're almost his height. How tall are you actually? But he's tolerant spirit his his. Yeah. You side it should read larger than life. I never debated. That beer wasn't six eight. He's definitely going to sell spirit juju Godley with has anybody seen this too and yelled at you something show related like, I get the show or you never know. Or is it generally just met with indifference? It generally met with indifference, but the ESPN week in the Super Bowl, I live here in Atlanta. So while I was walking around the Super Bowl. I got a lot of babies. You know what? And people wanted to take pictures of it, and that was pretty awesome. So what's me because I'm from the hood, you know, people don't speak walk up to me and say, hey, how you doing? You know, what's better conversation starter for you? The tattoo are being faked marine biologist. The two most definitely most definitely what is it that you actually do if you're not a marine biologist because it could have pulled me. Yeah. I'm I'm a studio manager I've managed recording studio here that nanna call patchwork. All right, you you gotta call us back if anyone famous and says, you never know to you because of the tattoo of Greg Cody on your calf you've got to relay that. So Dan, do you have any questions for juju Godley? I mean, what's the matter with him? Like why why would you do that? Like you day, you explained you say whenever you see the coda you just get happy. He of the ramp people. Hey doesn't same things. Let me back off. I know, but he's a back Austin. Good back off our family. All right. But I don't often see my calf. Juju guy followed you back. Yeah. Yeah. Follow back back. I talk to you soon. All right. We love you too. Daddy, juju Coty. Okay. We gotta go to I have and one more one last call for Chris cody's rehashed segment cross sports raids where you lumping all your professional teams into one town. And we've made the mayor of Miami, Pat Riley, we go out now to Ivan Ivan you're on the air. Actually isaac. But it's nice to meet you Isaac. So every I look like Rosie presence love child with Chris Farley. Oh, I got a three straight Swedish exports. So I'm glad to Florida. He who should not be named to the clippers and sue to the raiders listening. Thank you Isaac. All right. Do you guys have anything for that? Or should we just call it? We should have. We should have left on this guy. We have David Samson joining the show next donlevatar. Would you mind if the new owners of the Marlins knocked down that statue and center field, an eyesore? But it's to the point that it's, you know, our eyesore, really. It's something that we all laugh at together so bad that it's become good. You wouldn't go to New York and take away the apple then come on still God's would you guys? Look at a lot of other things and describe it that way, it's something that I'm mock. But it's something that is in the middle of my city. So therefore, I'm proud of it and don't want it removed pit bull. Okay. You went. This is our show with the stugotz on the ticket. This is damning information from Sam Miller of ESPN dot com. I'm just going to read to you as David Samson comes on. And we will talk movies with him in a second. But JT real Mutoko led all catchers in war over the past two seasons. He has the fastest pop time of any catcher he runs faster than any other catcher. And he hits like a right fielder. You wouldn't have known. It was happening right away. But by September two thousand sixteen you'd have been convince. What he was legit. He was making the major league minimum and had more than four years until his free agency of the Marlins all time twenty-five players by war. Real mutual ranked sixteenth twenty three have now been traded away rather than held onto until they reached free agency. Good God, man, like honest to God, and is one of those twenty five Jose Fernandez like they've they've kept as many of died is that right? Is that accurate anyway, David Sampson with us? Your reaction was what to J J T real mutual being traded. We knew he was going to be traded. He was unhappy. Here they deserve. He deserves a better place to play then the miss dumpster. But what did you think about what they got in return? Well, I my reaction was finally because they've been trying to trade them a whole off season. And they were tried to wait for a good package better package the best package, and if the pitcher they got I wanna call them six dollars, Scott. No, no because that brings back my old days, but they got a potential number one starter the problem with all these prospect traits, as you know, as you can't grade them for a couple of years, the other pieces will store and the and the catcher is just going to be there starter that are fine. But the real centerpiece was this prospect pitcher Sixto so from my perspective, they had a trade him. It had nothing to do. Dan with him not wanted to be here at nothing to do with his war that had to do with. He was the only valuable piece left to try to what der it's trying to do is rebuild the system in his mind thinking that a better farm system will somehow make the Marlins winters at some points on the field. And he may or may not be right? Isn't the pitching prospect even more of an injury risk in the average power pitching injury risk? No. You need you need, basically our map. Always was you need about twelve prospects to get one player twelve good pitching prospects to get one good pitcher. So you're just in. It's a game of numbers because half of them are going to get hurt half of them are going to suck. And so you just get as many as you can. And one of them that you hope is going to be good. So for all these traits. The Marlins have done if they get one or two frontline players from all of these guys they traded. They will have done. Okay. That was not an opinion, by the way, that was a mathematical fact, the Marlins twelve prospects for everyone pitcher, unfortunately, the rest of baseball too but four or five so you can it's it's not though. I mean, you think that I mean, you just you have this bias against the Marlins, and by the way now that I'm not there only if I was earned David unto earned by us against them that you guys earned it again. And again, nobody's ever earned anything the way the Marlins have earned that nobody I'd like you to just look at other teams, and how many of their top twenty five war or people are not on the team or didn't get the free agency or just make sure you have competitors. Let me read for while. Then hold on a second of the Marlins all time top twenty five players by war. Real mutual ranked sixteenth Twenty-three of now been traded away rather than held onto until they reach free agency. The other two truly are the exceptions that prove the rule AJ Burnett and the Marlins hated each other by the end, but Burnett made it to free. Agency because the much discussed deal to send him to Baltimore hit a snag when the Marlins kept trying to throw more of their players in the slop the other Jose Fernandez died in a boat crack before reaching for agency. The Marlins had tried to trade him to according to former team president, David Samson. It was the other team Sampson. Claim recently that stopped the deal. This is not normal the Rockies who debuted as a franchise at the same year. The Marlins did have held onto nine of their all time twenty-five through free agency or retirement and an additional four of those twenty five or still on their roster. The expansion Diamondbacks traded only fourteen of their all time twenty twenty-five. And even the notoriously proactive rays of kept seven of their all time top twenty five through free agency. The Marlins are genuinely weird they trade everybody. Faced all he had to do was keep reading. I love it. That's outstanding journalism. Thank you for reading that on the air. That was very good radio. But you just need to back off. The Marlins are worse than anybody ever at this. Yeah. Catch him anymore. I I'm I'm totally fine. I'm saying what Derek has traded. I guess four or five of those guys. So I'm I'm responsible. I'm just like the rays bent, close to the Diamondbacks. Every trade tells us story, but these Twenty-three trades together till three bigger stories. That's the first one. The Marlins are weird all the time and their own way. They're the most stable franchise in baseball because they're weirdness is a permanent state each of these trades on its own could be justified for baseball or financial reasons. But none of these trades any longer stands on its own. They're all part of the ongoing story of the Marlins, whoever owns them. Whoever runs them becomes by definition, Florida, man. That's a great point. So the question that that is facing baseball right now is Florida possible. Can they do to major league teams or even one major league team? That's an issue. We have to think about as a market for our home community. Then maybe sports just isn't as good here as we all wish it were who wrote that. Again. I know you mentioned it. But that's really well. Rick miller. Yes. Those are five different executives Sampson bind fist Loria Michael hill. Derek jeeter representing two different ownership groups, but telling the same story no longer there's not enough money here. But rather the players are not good enough here. One way to get better players is to help the players you have get better. That's what the big organization of coaches and analysts nutritionists, physical trainers and front office executives are theater, theoretically. Therefore, they're part of this big collaborative effort to help players. Get better hundreds of major league leaguers overperform expectations every year an optimistic view of baseball says that more than that's more than enough reason for hope this is not the story about baseball. The Marlins have told over the past decade their vision of baseball has been the guys they hired a bad in the franchise should just start over and over and over yellowish was under club control for five more years when he was traded Gordon for four stint for at least three ozone Zuma for two real mutual for two. It's an astounding lack of imagination that can consider any way out. Of that scenario other than a tear down. You got anything for me? Yeah. You asking me. I so we kept. And I I'm going to defend one thing that I did that you attack, and you don't do it with any factual basis we had a team that was together longer after three. Then the championship teams before when you looked one two three years down the line. We started making those changes for the sixties, and that's three years later. Then in those six we kept Uggla and Ramirez and all those guys for a five to six year run up, and then we stopped it in twelve. Now, this twit two thousand twelve run was another five six year run before jeeter twit before those guys in anybody. Listen, I would love to tell you that Derek Jeters wrong here, believe me more than you'll ever know. But he had no choice then that window with STAN yellow chose that window was gone. He's trying to start a new window. That's the reality of running eight low revenue team that was low revenue under high. Inga under Henry under Loria and under jeeter. It's not supposed to be low revenue with the stadium, though, David you've kept all those guys for longer than you expect to and gave the contracts to Castillo and low emotionally because you knew you couldn't do it again, tearing down something and then asking for a new stadium. Wet wet wet whatever my motivation was however self-serving it was does not change the reality of what the market can afford them. What it cannot afford? I'm actually going to do something. I'm actually going to defend David. I was really happy with generally their approach post championship. And they kept that team. And they actually got kind of close in the added pieces of super excited about that lo Duca trade the Carlos ogodo trade actually worked out for this team. So I think they did. Right. And they probably pull the plug history. We'll we'll say at the right time. But you mentioned that the window had closed on yelich Stanton Osuna. And is that just the financials dictating that? Yeah. Because the Stanton deal, I guess because if you kept that team together all you need to do is at an armor to and that's probably the best team in the division. Yeah. It was a financial wind up. I mean, when you when you look at the, you know, you never believe no one ever believed how much money the Marlins lost. But the number speaks themselves came in. Now granted they had they. They paid a lot for the franchise, but they couldn't operate it losing money the way it was. So they had to change it. Can it be told now in your opinion, David Sampson is someone who was involved in all of these situations and has a contract that now excuses him from from being critical of the Marlins? Can you tell us what you believe Derek jeeter overpaid for that team by like like now, I know you're going to say it's worth whatever it is the jeeter made it worth. But what I'm saying is like what jeeter hate you. Why? Gainer hates me because in his opinion. He overpaid by four hundred million dollars. Because there was no one else who is bidding what he was bidding bet. His opinion of why he hates me. He didn't overpay for four hundred million. It's that let smoke out that Sherman guy again down Bruce Sherman. He's hiding under a pile of money. How do you get let him get away with that? I mean, the principal owner of a local team of any team. Can you imagine an owner of a sports team? Who absolutely is not available ever. It's it's only because his headquarters are in British Columbia was that where it well. Mark island on sorry. Whatever got British right. What is one dollar fine? Okay. One dollar fine. By the way, part of the reason that the financial windows close was because of bad deals to weigh in Chen and Martin produ and other people in the bullpen. So wasn't the players that were traded. I mean, they were gonna make more money, but it's because bad money was tied up two other players. Just remember one thing at the time. They weren't bad money say what you want we signed way inch and to be the number two behind Jose Fernandez as a one two punch that would complement the outfield to take us to the play offs and possibly then a World Series it if we knew that he would end up stinking in the first two years. We've course you wouldn't have side, but weren't you bidding against yourself. Listen when Scott pours gets involved, and he deals with Jeffrey alone. All all Wiki got. We wanted Jen. But we wanted him for two years three years, maybe maybe a fourth year. And all all boys was able to do was get up to sixteen million a year. And up to a fifth year. But we all agreed that having way in on the team as number two or a number three was smart and good free agent signing that's a legitimate signing that the Marlins made. Of course, you criticize now 'cause he sucks, but at the time, it was a great idea. I feel like we've been doing a version of this show anytime someone gets traded for ten years. It's excellent radio. But we have savagely beaten David Samson for something that he's no longer responsible for regardless. What's the movie, but he is though David Samson, David Samson and Laurie ran this team for sixteen of the twenty five years at it's been existence. So part of the problem with the fan base, and the moorlands is David Sampson and Loria he's not running the team anymore, but the bad feelings exist because of how they ran the team. These are fans there people they're emotional. They're not robots. So you can say this doesn't work moneywise or whatever it is that you want, but people have felt betrayed by them for years. And that's carried it, by the way. The top betrayal of all time. If you're talking about it, we came in after high zinc and Henry, so we did not write the book on betray a we just wrote the next chapter. That's true. Yeah. But you added chapters to that book you guys had chances to fix bronner's plural down guys. Look, you guys wrote a sequel like that I was successful. But you guys came in and wrote a sequel that was almost as good as the firm kept her booting, the frame, just called betrayal. It's bigger than fast and furious. No. And this latest one while it is a different organization and while it's a different ownership group. Like, you set them up to be in that position to do this again. So can get off scot-free year blaming me for their decision to trade Stanton. Yellows an Gordon and j p rail modo that farm says that is a great compliment. Thank you that farm system was bear. When jeeter got there because by the way, who cares about embar system. We wanted. We wanted to win at the major league level. I won't apologize for trading away players to try to get better at the big league level. But that's not a. Sustainable plan for success. You have to have a farm system. If you wanna have a dynasty if you wanna have a team. That's good. The more than giant the the Marlins not they way you guys ran a team. Now, there's very few teams or capable of having a dynasty, maybe Yankees. Maybe dodgers, maybe Red Sox. No other team every other team operates with windows, and you try to make you windows long as possible at the big league level. I don't care. If Jacksonville loses one hundred fifty games, we had airplane windows. We've got hold on. We've got a minute left for view your movie, this is a badgering. He's been opinion on the whole time. Honestly, feel bad. All right. A minute. We got a minute left. What are you reviewing today? I wanna talk about Albert any because he died right before we came on the air, and I was going to review the ballot BUSTER scrubs. But we'll move that to another week to come brother movie, the number one Albert Finney movie. And we've got a lot of talk on this ready. But to me, it was big fish, which is the Tim Burton movie where he played the basically you and mcgregor's character as an adult. It is a movie with Billy quota if you haven't seen a ghost. At even if you think it's old it his simply phenomenal. You'll Lassen you'll cry. He was great Narran Brockovich. Great as Winston Churchill. Daddy, warbucks a great career. And it makes me feel old that all the people. I love is actors are now beginning to die, and this was a tough morning. So rest of peace Albert fitting. Thank you them. I the cat named Schmidt. He died. David Samson was legitimately emotional their login and he's made of wires. My I don't know. I don't know. And you just came in with your joking your jazz hand with your Schmidt joke, and I've got to admit it was good Sampson. We'll talk to you next week. 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BGN Radio #145: Eagles 53-Man Roster Reaction Special

Bleeding Green Nation

38:55 min | 11 months ago

BGN Radio #145: Eagles 53-Man Roster Reaction Special

"Support for this podcast comes from state farm here with good news and even better news. The good news state farm has new lower car insurance rates. The even better news that means you can now get the service and convenience of a local state farm agent at surprisingly great rates State Farm, can help you save more cash and get the good neighbor service. You deserve just talk to your local state farm agent or visit State Farm Dot. com to find out how much you can save on your car insurance when you want the real deal like a good neighbor state farm is there. You're listening to BGN reading with Brandon, Lee County and Jimmy Kamsky. Oh what's going on everybody I'm keeping voice dot com with me as always is down from bleeding nation DOT com brandon we're here on Saturday. Late afternoon early evening. After the eagles cut down to fifty three players. So no more fifty, three player projections from you or me we have the fifty three. Hey, buddy doing doing. All right. Obviously, we'll keep this episode relatively. Breeze through because some of these things are going to change by Sunday evening on the practice squad and cut know others. This is the initial fifty three another still allowed to be sorted out but we'll give you our instinct on it here before we get to Jimmy on mention that I'm on a new podcast, you might not know this I did not us the estimation NFL show is launching A. The the weekly episodes each weekday during the NFL season the Mike pissed is going to be on a episode on Mondays Wednesdays doing some things are going to be on Tuesdays outcasts called the debrief a the odd cast little pre. There teaming up with Rob Gra who you might be familiar with Jimmy audience listener goes by stats he was on the Mike and Mike Show for any worked with. Mike loyal pro data side to do that with him should be fun and obviously also Bijan Radio, brought to you beverages Hong Turkey go get the seeing meat snacks of the you'll do by going to Tucson dot com and using discount fifteen at checkout for fifteen percent off as BGN fifteen right to solemn dot com meet snacks end Lamis next check it all out Jimmy let's get it started. Yeah. Position by position I guess yeah. quarterback don't even need to say anything. Yeah. Well, the one thing I will say I recount recalibrated who I think will be inactive again. Week one after they went after you know we have the three man roster in front of us. So it'll be actually won't be. It'll be like my question Allie was, can you tell us who's going to be on I R I rattle off a couple of games and he's one of those guys is GonNa is GonNa, be on it and to the names that I said were Reagan and parks. So I would guess we'll be parks probably on I are. So I guess I wouldn't include him in the inactive, but I would have. been. Rare isn't on irs have him Al Sean. Watkins Casey. To Hill probably find somebody else pretty easily again, like you said the roster's change a lot. My guess is that Jalen hurts is probably going to be active week one. Certainly, not a definite he could be inactive I. Think he's going to be up week one if for no other reason than just. Kind of lingering they're. Running. Back the Eagles on he kept three miles, sanders, boss Corey. Though probably bring back either laser holyfield and were VGA Gillen's on the practice squad. I would think I would agree with that. I just kept fewer than four in the Doug Halley Kim Schwartz era yeah. I guess it's possible. They could add a fourth if someone becomes available to like GonNa, add like Peterson. I don't see. I don't see it either But yeah, I do actually think they're gonNA add another running back for week one. I. Think running back to be added in somewhere else Ah guys going to be taken off our look at that as the Yuba Holyfield and he can do that thing now where you can just pump up the new the elevate two guys from the practice squad. But yeah now here's the biggie. Wide Receiver actually that's not the bay corners biggie but a wide receiver a big surprise anyway I don't know if. The Eagles beat writers had a alshon Jeffery Madison Odidi Okay Oh that's right. You're right he did coming off of pop and just flat out making the fifty three man roster. So you have to Sean Raider Jj Ward hightower Watkins and Sean. So album season not on pop and in our In our interview session with Howie how he was asked I guess that means you think he's GonNa be ready before the time on his pop were to expire on how he said yes. That both the team and Alshon himself believed that he will be ready before week seven, which is when he will be eligible to come off the pop at the same time to me Jeff McLean. Is Reporting Ziegler still trying to trade off Shawn Geoffrey you know my thought here is well, this makes more marketable right putting on the roster like, Hey, he eats healthy right Teams he's fine. So be ready to play soon, go get him. They've been trying to trade him for like a year now. So I they haven't had any luck there. I, don't I don't. I think that their their luck is continue is going to continue to to be dry in trying to treat alshon I wonder when he will come back and it opens up a debate on whether they should. So. Like if the receivers are playing well, we've already mentioned this on the podcast but if they're playing well D-, massive it like the issue warned him back into the lineup into a prominent role in the offense that's probably a discussion for down the line they're not playing well and use the help in. Yeah. You get them right back in there. He's healthy but Yeah. Surprise to me for sure that I mean a huge surprise to me that that he didn't just stay on top because he looked nowhere near ready to play during training camp because he didn't do he didn't do anything on Mike teams practicing for the listeners like. When guys on pop they're usually often aside field running, working out doing that kind of stuff. He was doing none of that like you throw a ball to himself a little bit. You might have catch with somebody a little bit here. There wasn't running. He wasn't doing like that. Maybe it was doing it at other times but he wasn't doing doing during practices, which is when those, which is one guys normally do that a Jalen Hill, for example, was offering on a side field for almost the entirety of training camp. Last year he stayed on pop didn't come back until week seven. I wonder if maybe mills was ready to play. Before his time on pop was over and they don't WanNa make that same mistake again but I don't know A. Big surprise to me that that he didn't just stay on pop and are using a roster spot on him with him sort of being out of the lineup for now for the foreseeable future there gun said that Jeffrey isn't expected to be ready until October at the earliest. So that's what I'm saying. That was earlier that was like last week last Sunday. So else from my travel planning, I know that week four is is in San Francisco. That is the first week of October. So there's only three games in September. You know he's back week four for example, and you don't want him to play the yet makes sense the rostrum as opposed to keep you on pop but it will say, Hey, we'll see we'll see when he comes back and it's easy when necessary to come back depending on how receivers applying I wonder what that says about the rigor injury. If anything just a quick thought maybe doesn't but just wondering if they, they want that insurance, you know. To have another guy around in case. Jayjay it's GonNa be good like they thought I mean we you and I both think he had a good camp but let's see it in a real game before we believe Tied-in only to like. So I was right on that and right about that. Yeah I didn't think Connie. I was anything that you had to keep and although it's possible. You could Adam. Back on the roster clears waivers and they opened rust spot but I don't think they will I think they're just going to go the practice squad route where if they need that third guy though bump up using that new. To the scatter in Yeah I just think people got to like into this idea like they have to keep three because they run twelve personality I get that. That makes sense when you say by they way they've acted they don't really feel that way. You know it's funny that they're probably GONNA run more two tight end sets. Than any other team in the NFL and we're GONNA have fewer titans on their roster at least tied for that than any other team in the NFL. Right. Offensive. Line they went a little light there but there's probably a ninth guy on the way offensive line. They kept the JP of course Saint Malo Kelsey, Prior Lane Johnson need her big Jack Driscoll Jordan, Milaoda I. Think we both had. aronie asleep had prince takeover no-go making the final Did you have a tenth guy to or you know? So you. Okay. So we were both surprised by that mildly surprised I guess, and then of course, the eagles brought in cordy Glenn for a workout how he actually just explained to us a bit ago that he hasn't physically worked out for yet a three day process I. Today's for Cova testing he will work out the third day and. Yet it sounds like they're probably going to sign him as young as like that work out doesn't go horribly and I actually just did a I wouldn't say a film breakdown of them because I didn't include any video like that but I did watch all of his snaps the film analysis from twenty nineteen and were a ton of them. So he only he only started five games. And the only played the entire game in four of them. So they will get through that relatively quickly. He's a big guy he's huge. He's three hundred and forty five pounds. He's got super long arms. You're not gonNA, push him back into the pocket like he's sort of a brick wall matt regard. As you might imagine for God, it's almost three hundred, fifty pounds is not the. Not The easiest. Off Its of Lyman in terms of you know quickness and and and foot speed. So I think he he showed in snaps I watched a little bit. To speed around the edge, he's think that like a guy like that would be really good against the run or at least be able to kind of move guys off the line of scrimmage in the run game he doesn't do that. So really like his appeal. The Eagles will just be that. He's this guy. You're not gonNA push him back into the pocket. Maybe maybe a little susceptible to the speed rush but Doug Peterson that's a if you know how he's GonNa get beat or how he's likely to get beat you can game plan for that kind of guy a little bit better. So I think he's a guy that you can certainly get by with and I think that's really all they need because they're not gonna get by with a guy like Matt prior and they're not gonNA get by with a guy like Jordan my lot in my happen you know hearing from Howie Roseman it sounds to me like really the plan still is staff decent peters at right guard and in. A in that case, I think the land will be you're starting left tackle and I just I don't love that. I. Think it should be Peters tackle, right guard and I and I do like forty as a swing tackle that makes all the sense in the world to me. It'd be like really good signing because you don't have that proven debt right now behind his ears he's buying. Left tackle and he does get hurt. You can't just have Milaoda or prior or just step up there like be the first band up there. So and I do think they will sign Glenn the other thing. These visits is important to note that like the NFL is kind of like the them in terms of like you have to actually WanNa sign that guy the is bringing people that actual interest. Arms working out. Kicking the tires that you can't do that. You have to have actual interest. You don't have to definitely sign him the after be like you know seriously interested in them and I think they are in and I think they will signed Glenn at some point here again as. The workout is in the disaster. The thing about land real quick is He's good enough. We he shouldn't be available in September like he should be on somebody's roster and believe the reason that he probably wasn't was because last year like he he had been issues in. Cincinnati. Like he almost got into a physical altercation with another coach. He got suspended for a game. He got fine I think two hundred K. for for you know those kinds of incidents like it was missing. urged late or whatever to practices and stuff like that. So it Kinda ended badly for him in Cincinnati last year they cut him in March that that was kind of an obvious move for them anyway because they save nine point five million on the CAP, and that's the team that obviously wants to get younger with how bad they are there to and fourteen year ago So I think all that contributed to him still being. Available in September. So the eagles in a way are Kinda lucky that he is still there if they do in fact, sign him. Of course, there is that risk that he can be that can be a problem Philadelphia too but I think you obviously with the way that they're offensive line is looking heading into this season in the concern that is you take that risk at this point they also have some connections to land in that. June four defensive coordinator. With the bills CNN, Glenn with their today known from their Jeremie Washburn. Is Friends with Doug Marrone Mike Kay. Former BGN radio. Co host, and lead nation contributor. McCain pointed out that yeah Washburn, and Doug Marrone. I think we're like friends growing up up. So there's a connection there and important to know that press Taylor has the brother of Bengals head coach Zach dealer. So you know kind of get some insight from there. So you know they have the cohabitation matrix set up on that. At. least you would think. You know with those connections dso again I don't love it though if he's the starting left tackle I, just have to pay decent peters and it doesn't seem like they are and that is crazy to me anything else mouth I have nothing else on the offensive line. Do we go to break here anything on Kristen Roach from. You just you just blew my trivia question I was GONNA say. I was GonNa ask you who all the Lord's in Queens and earls and Dukes of the land. Voted Best Realtor in the history of the universe. It was Kristen Rochester. Of trailers. So if you're looking to buy or sell your home call or text kristen. At eight, five, six, nine, zero, six, nine, two, nine, five, again, eight, five, six, nine, zero, six, nine, two, nine, five, Brandon back after this. Hannah fans. Dak Prescott here one is spend Sunday afternoons with your favorite teams and players switch to direct TV and get NFL Sunday ticket included at no extra cost I'm talking every live out of market game every Sunday no matter where you live. So switch to direct. TV. To get the twenty twenty NFL Sunday ticket season included at no extra cost call one, eight, hundred DirectTV of market games only requires twist package or above minimum seventy, four, ninety, nine a month before discounts prices higher in Second Year Regional Sorts v Ninety nine a month applies twenty four month agreement activation other terms and restrictions. Apply support for this podcast comes from cdw on Dell Technologies. Bet cdw Gee we get migrating your agency to a hyper converged infrastructure is challenging. GotTa do it to want to do it, but got to do it slowdown friend CDW Jeez experts can help simplify your transition from legacy to hyper converged infrastructure with Dell technology solutions that offer speed and agility. Have you done it? Is it done yet? Why isn't it done yet it orchestration by cdw. People who get it find out more at CDW DOT com slash DELTEC. Back here I'm BGN radio. So one forty-five breaking down the Eagles Initial d three men roster. Again, there will be changes year while those covered on your nation and Jimmy's officially announced the NBA radio. So they do all that good stuff. We have practice squads being able to be formed as soon as one PM on Sunday September stakes. Also, the waiver wire results will come out after noon on the same day Sunday September six probably when you potentially listening to this. Jimmy before you get into the defense here as I just WanNa say you know again football season's coming up here you're in some snacks on Sunday to get to the game and why not get some reis as Fallon crafter either meets next that fuel. You're Philadelphia Eagles fans listening to this. That's right to sell and Durkee and snacks are served novacare complex feeling station players to their pre and post workout protein fix it was good enough for. The Eagles at gotTa be enough for you as well. So you know it's a no brainer to me and look you know I was never the biggest The Turkey I tried to sound like, Hey, this is actually pretty good and I think anyone who I've given that to has said the same thing like, oh this is this is really good and again, you don't meet a yet like, but go to their site at Red Sox calm the. Next to you can check those out and you can use. and they also gear stuff do. So the options are endless and you can use discount code medium fifteen at checkout get fifteen percent off. So they'll do that I love meat snacks, buddy defense to me defensive end. Yes I keep sex I know one of them's going to be very bad. For. We have brand Graham dark Barnett Josh swept curry. We all knew that those four we're going to make the team all along. And then of course you have Casey to hill who cracks the roster as the team's final pickens drowned on. Facing sort of uphill battle to make the roster and I thought he showed a little something you can't had him on about halfway through camp Had Him on my final three production and then finally the six defensive end. Girardi very. Team. So. Pathetic. Nothing to nothing into a single thing other than the guy that Howie Roseman traded fourth round where the last year in environment. Like. They'd better be putting him in I. Are they just that better be the plant while the? Even that stupid though like the Joel Spin deserted, make the Steve I don't mean just because what he did this summer but last year as well and you know he's GonNa help you on special teams like I just don't feel Jolson and you work your body like when you're watching Rodeo verdict keeps checking the list to see active on Game Day. He's got his finger go down the list to unite like. All the other Notre Dame players pat him on the back like. Next. Time. Buddy. Jo Osman Right now is looking down the list for his name Oh not a good. Deserves it though. I thought he deserved the surely over Gerard Avery I don't have a problem with him. Not Making the team over somebody else maybe elsewhere on the roster like just just if they felt that they couldn't keep you know six defensive ends or something like that. I had to hill over Osman to so like it just felt like he couldn't they couldn't fit a man for whatever reason but to. Lose out to avery disraeli no justification for it because they're both similar players. So it's not even like they're two different like body types or they have two different skill sets dirty used in theory they would be used similarly at they're both sort of undersized guys both have really good athleticism at both were maybe GonNa Lineup and sort of that joker all you gotta move around a little bit to kind kinda get a match ups and stuff like that so like you know. To choose avery over Osman is as you said, surely, only because the eagles used traded a fourth round pick for him at the deadline. Last year opens also younger than him only by a couple months but still. That's like. That right yeah. What year is a two thousand, Eighteen A. Yes. Undress. Yeah, I guess. So you asked me would have been the same, right? Yeah. He was undrafted free senior. Yeah I just. And I said on the PODCAST and I said it in my notes I don't know he built no will remember this. But like this is a guy who I saw getting stoned in one on one by like Julian Good Jones. Who just outlined couldn't even remember his name and like just received one of the smallest undrafted rookie signing bonuses on the team and was like really can't body and you know this is the same guy who Jordan, my lava had no problem with him in A. Regularly High Dose Man. But like Abraham you know late work so I I really just don't get it. We move on. Right all right defensive tackle they went light your. Yeah Cox Hargrave Jackson Ridgway's really a rare place that they went chalk in my opinion on the roster, their quarterback, and that's it like you. But I I would not say I think more political had a third tight end that not I don't never sure. But I think there was a team Tongi I out there. Anyway you're right CHOC- Maybe. Ray. Quantum volumes could made the team or maybe they could have saw like anti rush has guy who gives them a different element in that he's Huge and could be a run stuffer, but they don't they just those four guys, which is the read into that at all in thinking that maybe hargrave is going to be good to go for week one. Or is that a stretch I mean I never really thought they were gonNA eat five so I wouldn't really make too much out of it but I mean if they kept a fifth, that certainly wouldn't be good sign. You know that yet Ryan Seville eighty right and I think it's probably GONNA get. Liam's on the practice squad I. Wonder if rush might get picked up somewhere just because you know he has gained film any obviously, you know the raiders what maybe the raiders want him back you know the the eagles sign away from their practice squad last year like he might have options but yeah. For their and obviously you know keeping stakes defensive end kind of. Goes with that but. Yes, yeah, ten total is fine for counseling and you have you know of curry you can slide inside too. So I'm Bernie Graham defense me linebacker So they keep Gary. Of course, do Briley Tj were all locks Shawn Bradley and Dave Taylor were pretty much locked as rookies and as rookie draft picks that is and the six guy little bit of a surprise. That totally. But little surprise. Alex singleton makes the roster. So every linebacker may the roster they didn't make any cuts linebacker all six that were that finished out camp. May, the team. So I think singleton really only surprise survives here because eagles don't feel good about Bradley Taylor actually playing in the regular defense. Any point? have, Riley or Edwards go down than Singleton is now your he's like he's in the game he I think Singleton Wyle he was like on the bubble to make the team. I, think he's now the fourth linebacker ahead of Bradley and Taylor also have that written that out your nation that I added depth chart might have him I. I bumped them up to the fourth guy even though I thought you know he was like the sixth one vision. Yes I, agree with you and and just look at what Jim Schwartz said by feels like by. Backers one of the harder positions for rookies to play in a I thought, they could have gotten singleton to the practice squad without really agrees. So I don't really love it from that sense and I felt that you could call up you really needed to you could get by with Bradley in a game if you had to and you can call up, you know singleton but whatever I mean, it's not the end of the world. It's it's fine. Now they cornerback that keeps sleigh maddox Roy Coleman grave on the blank at you abandoned your boy. Your Final Never Amanda Action. You'd left poor Craig. Craig James All along you abandon them with the final hour. I didn't have him all along and then I had him on my final projects and he makes the team at Boy Greg Craig James and he's on contract extension. Yes. He's now under contract through twenty, twenty, one they did a similar thing last year with crave on the block. Of course, the big news here is that city Jones and resume Douglas are no longer for time being anyway Philadelphia Eagles or on out to me. Sad setting. On Sydney I don't WanNa hear any of this bs that like all. It was still a good pick. It was. No, it was not a good pick said at the time. Say, that yeah, I've seen those I. Name names here one. No. impossibly feel that way I don't know. But like I have seen that sentiment out there from from prominent media people that like it was worth the risk. No, it was. Now it was not worth the risk it was dumb and that's the hindsight like again, I want to give props to our buddy mangles right to. Had A great article in March of two thousand seventeen. Like over a month before Sidney Jones drafted like don't drive this guy you know the injury register guy like almost never works out or you know it's it's not good that and it wasn't listening to us. He played in twenty three at a fifty four possible games for the eagles. He was not available. You WanNA was available. As you mentioned, he was not like reliable on the field in the sense of like you're talking about the vikings from last year he came out and and like in Swertz rely on him and Malcolm Teigen's Scott The Sydney, he didn't deserve to make the team that was the bottom line you. Didn't like he did not earn a spot on the team, you can't just keep it around like, oh, potential the. Now like you have to earn earn your spot in the team and he didn't and shot the Craig James Did and residual. Kind of tough you just when you look at your configuration Jimmy allow, you could argue A. Like arguably should be slack guy. Yeah. Mold of a player Nicole Roby Coleman is a sly guy straps. In Craig Jeans is like your guy, but he's been in there to not. He's not a big guy either. Even. I mean, he's mostly played on the outside when he's gotten into games with the eagles but yes, So slaves the winner he hit but did you say easy five ten so right? Yeah. Listen at okay. What might be generous my big a five nine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's he's a smaller guy for sure. So it's I mean sleigh isn't a big guy either sleighs what six foot would even yeah. Yeah. Then he's a skinny guy so they don't really have any. Any big corners gyms their heaviest listed at one hundred, ninety, five pounds. Okay. So he's take. So Rassoul. We've met I've mentioned already on on the podcast. I. Believe that you know he has positive traits. Good ball skills he's tough come up ahead like he tackles. Well, let's good but we saw it what it is last year like he just can't just can't stick with receivers down the field and that is sort of a the death knell of corn today's league. You can't given up big plays left and right then you just can't can't be in a game I know a lot of people think that he should be safety or should have been safety all along and I certainly understand that. But my concern with him being a safety though to you still need athleticism. So if you're like a deep middle guy, you still got to be able. To go sideline to sideline and I don't know if he could do that, and also at some point when you're a safety to drop down into into the slot and you're gonNA have to cover receivers down there or cover running backs I think he can handle tight ends but if he has the cover, any anyone that's shifty in any way in the middle of the field, I don't think he can do that. So I don't know if that would necessarily really be an answer either it'll be really interesting to see where he lands. I don't think it'll be interesting to see where Sydney labs because I think he's GonNa Fowler where he goes That's a very mean thing to say but I think result can be successful in other schemes like you look at a guy like Richard Sherman and I'm not comparing Brasilia Richard. Sherman of course but they are at least similar kind of body types. You know Richard Sherman isn't sue breath likely gifted So maybe result can be successful in in like cover three kind of skiing or you know see scheme similar of about forty nine on seahawks ran back in the day. So I'd be curious where where he ends up and. like to sort of follow his career from here on out. So both of those guys will get claimed or picked up I think Brazil is going to be on somebody's fifty three man roster week one. I don't think Sidney well to just because some team will go. We'll see we could go with them because there's you know there's a lot of PAT teams. Like some bad team that knows not going to contend this year, they may as well bring him in and take a look at them. Residual I think is a candidate to go to a decent team. In with the right scheme fit. So, we'll say, maybe eagles don't draft players who run a four, six, forty m play them cornerback just an idea. I could see landing in Carolina for example, there are reports that they're looking for corners and as a super young team there some former eagles people in the front office there as director they know they're not going anywhere like they know it. So he he makes sense their residual for like you now falcons. seahawks forty niners some team like that. I think he would make sense I. Mean that's obviously the big news. Then you talk about those guys, you talk about the two thousand seventeen draft class as a whole I mean it's only Derek Gary last. Left and obviously, if you don't include undrafted rookie free agent from that year but he's not a not how he's less works you could say it what was the? There's now the air wear Would have been the Danny Watkins. Jay Quan, Jerry Year two thousand eleven there was a few undrafted guys that came out of that all the draft together better than the guys. They actually picked I forget this point but I wanNA. Last. Thing on the corner. Is that like It's pretty disappointing that Sydney neither Sydney nor rusel worked out in the class was considered to be pretty loaded with cornerback talent. Yes and beauty at like nothing out of that. Basically I mean I think it was a fine of as a backup, but still took him third on pick. You're looking for more than that. Get really just nothing in the end of those guys didn't even finish out their rookie contracts at least like that's pretty bad and it also goes to why they had to overpay Darius slay in our. You know not maybe overpaid, but they had to make him the highest quarter in the NFL and they Detroit firm to. How. Know, we're paying for the mistake of Yup of tragedy to corners in two thousand seventeen have not definitively become starters for our for our defense. That's where the Mantis like inches drafting and be like you know that's how it manifested in. Do you have to spend more money and guess what you're up against the TAP? So I wonder why safety six year me see surprise surprise big surprise here for me. I actually had rudy on. So they can pretty Ford Ends Marcus APPs. Throughout the jails Roddy McLeod, we'll parks who's probably GONNA. Go on I are tomorrow especially the gymnastics yeah. We take him especially we're keeping six like that's wwl signed him, right. So Kahlon Wallace. legos like we said, the final two are Marcus. EPS, and Rudy Ford. Either way I mean, first of all, I mean really for breaking the team like after what he did on special teams last year I'd say I don't get it terrible. Yes. Last year some of the most penalties in the league like I. Know You said. Said got that spicy penalize but like okay like I just I remember even like it can't remember specific instance I remember there were specific instances where like a big penalty Dallas scheme got down in early like there are some like really like momentum shifting penalties that he had mistakes that he hasn't even like the penalty like. They lost yards because of the penalties or whatever like he negated a pretty decent return niemand game So yeah, his his penalties were were they really did sort of impact. You know some games and how he even said during the press conference like. We need better production production out of him. As a special teamer but but they WANNA stick with him I guess so he gets another chance we'll say and then I guess like I would put really I think EPS might be year in a way like I think the playing field visit third safety right now. Yeah. You really is out he's going to be the third safety for Allen Nabi for sure Y- that's that's why they kept six year in part two is because they don't trust and that's another position like linebacker Schwartz said safety is one that is Hard for rookies to learn a normal off-season. Let alone one here and especially if it comes to more. So you know the free safety role that deep safety I like. This is a clear sign to me that like is that guy in lawless not going to be that guy like they thought ready Ford would have been the third safety then you don't keep apps. Yes. Other even four for special teams purposes in the absence of third safety, and then they might just they might just get rid apps when parks comes back. Because you can't have you can't have six eight on your officer throughout the season and it's I wouldn't think of it as six eighth these right now because again, like we said, we'll part certainly gonna go on I are. So it's really more like five and then they're gonNA, add another guy at a position at some point. Special teams. Highly Ragas. Cameron Johnson Lotto Brandon Brooks on up you will miss at least the first obviously maybe the entire season other not officially ruled out you know. Maybe. Back any time off a pup maybe they make like a deep playoff run and then he could come back. I mean that's the realistic best case scenario to. The Eagles confirmed Andre dealer the season by putting on IRA before the cuts. So he's done and then Perkins also ir done. Eagleton. Start. Signing their practice squad again on PM on Sunday. Obviously guys have to clear waivers for them to be available and some of them did Jimmy the twelve guys at the eagles cotton. Thursdays like the Brunette Adrian Killen Luke. Girija those kind of guys I think they will shortly be looking to have on I. Thought was interesting how he admitted like they're going to have to have some more veterans on the practice squad, and obviously you have those spots now where you have limited experience eliminated accrued seasons in the NFL. With those spots so that thousand interesting I guess in theory it doesn't get claimed which he said he think he will. You will I I would think you L.. But if he doesn't let you bring those guys back on the practice squad yet who are we talking about again they're you cut out there. I also result on also think Trevor Williams to make sense for the practice squad in guy with like game experience and obviously didn't have a ton of time the eagles but you started in the NFL before Cement WanNa keep him around the guys that I can't have make the practice squad. So like I, tied with Wolf for the This is a sham by the way. There's only nine people in total. Helper, complain King of the beats doesn't want to open up the. Okay. I tied with Bo for the most correct players on the fifty-three part So now it goes to the practice squad. Thirty. Two of the same sixteen practice squad guys. So, for him he has No-go I. think that's a good chance for him. He's got a Manasseh Bailey Matz saying that right and Trevor Williams I have. Girardi every. So that's not looking great Marcus APPs, also great and Sharieff Miller which and I think he's GonNa get mad and go somewhere else a we did we ever mentioned Rick Miller by the way also one of the cuts. Also, you know sort of the a mistake by by the front office using a fourth round pick in the two thousand, nineteen draft for him. Invisible in the last two camps in that invisible of course, during the regular season as well. So. What do you think I? Think he's sticks in practice water he goes somewhere else. I mean maybe Joe Douglas really likes him new the jets take about or Andrew Berry. No these guys in theory. I could see that and the other thing with Miller as I brought up before like how he said that year was loaded at defensive line and it was yeah yeah. Got It and you got a guy who didn't play a single defensive snap for you and this is two years after you got to opry in a class that was loaded at running back self proclaimed by Howard Rosen and even play a snap in the NFL ever at so like now how he's tell his credit, he did say this year he didn't want they wide receiver class star and the receivers are looking good so far maybe he's learned is less but Not The vessel for him cut down day. No Jones Douglas these guys getting like the not the not the best optics there. Didn't he say the now I think he did say the wide receiver class had the potential to be historic kidney. I. Thought he cautioned against that. Probably I don't want to say that 'cause he knows how. I am. That's why any final thoughts. Yeah. Let's go sharieff Miller. Leftover Girardi. Maybe, he gets cut on comes back to squad. And Let's go. Marcus APPs he's not getting cut but yeah, I've come in second place in stupid thing like already three times and I'm pretty sure it's going to happen for a fourth time. So unlike like the buffalo bills of the fifty three man. Eagles beat competition. The nineteen ninety s buffalo bills that is not the more recent buffalo bills. The one I'd want the the ones that lost in the super bowl every year this has been bgn radio. So forty five more coverage to you I don't know what a look like but obviously, no practice squad being formed again I'm Sunday September six. Listening to this. So do something about that I, don't know how to become covered exactly but stay to you know you'll find out if you subscribe to beat the radio and review all those good things up support the show obviously help support the show to by supporting sponsors right to songcraft Turkey can go there to write this on the needs discount Kobe fifteen at checkout fifteen percent off. Also. Again, it's what applauded the espionage. Show I didn't even tell you to subscribe but obviously go do that going GonNa have links on bleeding nation for that, and also to try to get kissed put note at Lincoln the show notes here. So you can just click on it. They're going to be a lot of good stuff on that feed as well. General NFL coverage. I'll be talking about the on there too. I'm sure. So again. That's the SPCA NFL show. Go subscribe to that, and until next time Jimmy I've ready. Jeanne?

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Effectively Wild Episode 1386: Amateur Hour

Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast

1:18:17 hr | 2 years ago

Effectively Wild Episode 1386: Amateur Hour

"And. And welcome to episode thirteen eighty six of wild a baseball podcasts from Ben graphs, presented by our patriots supporters. I have been very up the ringer, and I am joined by Meg rally of fan wraps, egg sust going to be a fun one. We talked later in this episode to Eric von Hagen and Kylie McDaniel of fan, graphs. I said, we talked later in the subset, which we're tenses we have talked to them, but it will be later in the sewed for you. We talked to them about the draft and broke it down on a player level on a team level, but also more macro level, we talked about draft trends, and how players are being developed in how players are being picked. So even for someone like me, who is not as into the nitty gritty of individual players, because so many of all of them interested in the strategy, and some of the larger trends, and we got into all of that. And I told you thought I only had a few questions, and then it turned out, I had many questions. So hopefully, we will answer other questions people have. But. We've gotta talk a little bit about actual baseball news. Craig kimbrel is no longer a free agent. Downcycle Sylla's as we speak, though, perhaps, not as he listened, but it seems a natural to be talking about a prominent free agent signing in June. But that's where we are. Craig kimbrel is now a Chicago cub, he signed for three years and forty five million. He's gonna be ten this year and sixteen in each of the next two years. And then there's a buy out at the end of it. So there's a lot that we could say about this. You have to edit some pieces for fan grass that we may not say all that we could save but Ken Rosenthal just wrote about how this happened and he said, why this took until the first week of June could fill a business textbook. And I think that's true. Because there are so many considerations here from the team side from the league wide side, just the waste false economics are working right now. The way players and agents are perching free agency right now. So we can talk a little. A bit about that. And just about what kimbro means to the cubs. At what's your main takeaway minutes? It's nice that one of the best players at thing that he does is now gonna be playing baseball Ken, but it's not something where you can just leave it at that. And hey, cricket bills good. And he gets to play, and he makes the cubs better because they're all these other factors that play into these extremely belated, signings. I so crank Edwards, wrote about about the Kimbrell signing for us said at fair, graphs and noted that there are a number of bullpens that are under performing right now or at least are performing poorly on teams that are trying to contend. So we can even set aside. The, the variable pens on teams that are really far out of contention and didn't really have any any intention of contending. That's weird to say it's hard to say and I think Craig noted something that I think is useful here, which is that there is a scenario under which teams being trepidation of outside. Inning kimbrel in particular, and relievers, more generally is reasonable. It's a reasonable thing, right? It's the roster. That's the hardest to predict there's a ton of variation year to year super metric, Doug Ma few years ago, closers, spend on closers, right? Because they will often be less good than they were like the Mets are team that invested not not money, but prospect value in getting at Wendy as and he has been fine, but not amazing. Right. And they went out and spent thirty million dollars unders familia who has not pitched. Well, so there is even teams that deploy some resources whether their prospects are or dollars can end up disappointed. But we do see team spend money on relievers. That is part of the market. And so for him to sit out for so long when he is such a talented pitcher, even if he is thirty even if he has been very good instead of great of late, even if he did strike. Eagle in October makes you think that this isn't really about Rosser construction or doing what is exactly right for the team. But it is, you know, being influenced as you noted by a ton of other considerations. I don't know how, you know, we will never know the full extent of kimbrough's true demands of teams prior to now, and we will never know the exact sort of set of motivations that facilitated this, you know, waiting until June. But when you think about, you know, the cubs in particular their bullpen was, was very, very poor and they waited to spend this money on a guy who when you think about the value of the pick that they would have been giving up and some of the international money, essentially acquaints, Daniel, scou- so wasn't isn't it worth it to the cubs to spend Daniel, discuss not have the bullpen? They've had. So I just think that, you know, they might. End up sort of getting away with one. They're competitive in a division that is type, but they are sort of holding their own their leading that divisional be narrowly. The brewers were another team that didn't end up getting kimbrel right at the van the cardinals didn't get kimbrel either. But it is sort of disappointing that, you know, the thing that we might come away when we look back on the season, we might be like, well, they righted the ship at the right time. And so it ended up being fine. And maybe they spent a little less than they would've ultimately. And I think that that's probably the wrong message for us to, to take from this because, you know, they could presumably be doing even better in the central than they are. Now they could have more cushion between themselves in the brewers. They can have a clear sense of their competitive sort of picture going forward, if they had pulled the trigger a little early. So I don't I don't know. Yeah. So the coast bullpen has been shaky and Brenden Morrow, who is the closer for part of last year. He's coming back from elbow surgery, Pitra Strope was just activated but has been. On enough injured lists. And so you slept kimberlin there. And in theory, at least you should have a pretty good back of the bullpen there with Cleveland Strope in see shack, and Brad Bracken, Brandon Kinzler. So you could imagine that really coming together into a pretty formidable unit. Part of the reason that kimbrough has been sitting out all this time is that kimbrough seems potentially past his peak. He dipped below and climbed back up again. So it's hard to say from your to with relievers, but of course he was somewhat walked prone last year. Never more than in the playoffs, which was the last time that people saw him and he didn't really lose games for the Red Sox. But he tried his best to give up a whole lot of base runners and did not look like someone you would want to commit a lot of money too. So that may have been part of this, perhaps part of it was him misreading the demand for him, or hoping that there would be more demand. You know, there were reports that he was seeking some giant, six year deal or a hundred million. At some point in the off season. I don't know whether that's accurate. I know that can Rosenthal, I think reported back in April that he was seeking at that time a contract that is pretty close to the one. He just signed. So it does seem like his demands came down. And yet, he was still sitting out, and it is probably not a coincidence, that he signed immediately after the amateur draft which means that teams do not have to give up draft picks to sign him anymore. The draft pick compensation goes away after the draft. So that is probably part of it. But I mean if you look at like Craig Edwards draft pick values that he did early this year. Like, once you get down below the very top picks that should not really be something that stops you for making a move, like I think the dodgers would have had to give up their thirty first pick or something. And according to Craig, that's worth almost ten million dollars like that something once you get down, you know, he went all the way down to pick seventy and down there. It's like three point eight million is the value. In terms of future surplus production and various teams were in that range, and that shouldn't really be prohibitive. If you think that Craig Kimble's gonna make you better. So it's hard to say how much of it was can Bruce demands how much of it was teams not spending when they should have. I think we know that the cubs off-season protested that they couldn't make any moves that they were maxed out in payroll and, you know, it's always kinda hard to believe that when you're talking about a team like the cubs that has been very successful and has nice media market and attendance and is very valuable franchise. And maybe that's a constraint that the front office is working under but ownership has imposed for ownerships, own reasons. And so, I think you could look at this and say why didn't they do it three months ago? But then you also look at other teams that didn't do it now. And could have would have benefited from it like the brewers for instance. And the brewers aren't cubs and they've spent some and, and they're in a different position. But you look at teams like the brewers. The Braves or the twins. And various teams that really seem like they could use kimbrel weather for the pennant race or for the playoffs and ultimately he went to cubs and I guess, good for them though. Who knows exactly how long it will take it seems like it might take a couple of weeks for kimbrel to debut and you don't know whether there will be some hangover effect, whether he'll take him some time to get up to speed. So there's some uncertainty there too. Yeah. I've, I've wanted to find the right way to, to formulate this question without making it sound like I don't think that team should sign him because that isn't mine tension with the question. And so I haven't come up with a great way to do it. So I haven't because it made me nervous on Twitter. But I, I have been thinking a lot lately about just exactly how long it's going to take him to get sort of ramped up. He is reliever. So, theoretically, it's less difficult than said, whatever program Dallas, Keiko's going to need to work, his way through in order to be sort of top top shape. For whatever team he ends up signing with. Which sounds like might result in him having to shave if I yeah, I, I do wonder, you know, the studies on this stuff seemed to be kind of inconclusive with how much those long layoffs tend to affect guys me now. So I, I wonder about that. And if you we just have to we just have to hope he pitches, really well, because if he's bad, Twitter's going to be unbearable. Can I be gnarly because we've all spent the last couple of months, rightly saying, well while there are some bad bullpens while there's this good reliever out there. And you can get him for just money. All it takes his money. It doesn't even take prospects. So someone should go do that. So I hope that for all of our sakes most, especially for Craig kimbrel, but as a secondary knock on for our own sanity that he's just like lights out, and then they can be bashful in feel silly in an weaken feel relieved so yeah, and I mean, this is sort of a pattern with the cubs picking up closers and prioritizing closers, surreal, Chapman, it's Davis, now Craig kimbrel and the other kind of unseemly aspect to the stories that if you read can Rosenthal's report. No one with the cubs will come out and say this, but they are dropping hints. It's a connection that I think. A lot of people are drawing that Ben soberest is currently on the restricted list while he's dealing with divorce and may be out for the rest of the season, and he's not being paid while he is on that leave, and therefore the cubs are recouping that cost and maybe have decided that they will put that money that they are saving because of a difficult time had been zobrist life toward Craig kimbrel, which is, you know, kind of kind of gross to think about that, that this move may have come about because of a misfortune that has befallen one of their players, but. My mom would call it tacky. She would say that was tacky. And I think that, that characterization would be accurate. It does. I mean, the numbers do lineup in a kind of uncomfortable way. So I think it will be hard to, to avoid that assumption that people are going to make. But I hope that that's not. I think that the still silly, but less tacky explanation is draft pick compensation rather than than this money, suddenly freeing up in the budget because of over personal misfortune. So why don't we go with that? We'll just we'll just pretend that's true. Instead has otherwise it's kinda yucky. Maybe this is the kind of contract, and this whole off-season Sokha that will look back on, after the next CPA, perhaps and say, these are the kinds of situations that changes in this round of bargaining were designed to address. We'll see whether the players actually succeed in that respect, but get. This draft pick compensation removed or getting players paid early in their career. If reagents aren't gonna make as much as they once would have I mean, I think that this contract it sort of sounds like lot. If you're still in the mentality of don't pay for saves, but there are comparable contracts for comparable or even lesser pitchers that have been signed for the same amount, or even more in not a distant time. So it's not like out of nowhere. And I think there is still the perception that you can just kinda go find bullpen guys and you can convert a starter or you can just develop someone who has a good arm. And suddenly, he's a late inning guy. And that's true that happens. But there are a whole additives that still need bullpen help. Because bullpens are shouldering a heavier load bullpens pitching, a lot and the individual pitchers in those bullpens are not pitching as much you don't see guys pitching three or four days in a row anymore. Mostly don't go multiple innings so you need to fill those innings with arms and. And some teams that have spent recently this past winter on free agent relievers are satisfied with the players. They've brought on at amount of Iino or Zach Britain. But as Craig pointed out in his piece you've got Indra Miller, and you've got Robertson, and you've got yours familia, and you've got Joe Kelley. And there's a long list of guys who kind of justify the old attitude of 'bout don't trust believers. Don't invest in relievers, because they will break your heart, so we'll see which which box creek impo fits into. Man. Joe Kelley zone a bad year. Yes. Yes. Yeah. But his Jay has recently written for fan, graphs. It hasn't mattered the dodgers your mazing. Yeah. I mean I could have lumped in the Red Sox with when I was listing teams that could have potentially used Craig kimbrel turns out, that Ryan brazier, you know, wasn't, the solution that they thought he would be really. Yeah. The pope in has a whole has not been terrible. But there, yeah there's some teams that don't have that, like designated stopper at the back. And there are fewer teams that are making it a priority to have that guy like saves are being distributed more widely across the bullpen and I think teams are playing matchups and they're looking at usage, and it's not so much like you need to have the fire-breathing night, didn't guy who gets all the save upper -tunities, that's not really the case anymore. But I think every team would benefit from having Craig kimbrel. So there are a lot of teams out there that fence will be questioning why it's not their team opening up a brand new creek kimbrel today brand new friend who had thirty for it. We were all brand new thirty. No, maybe the time off will do him some good in the long run at least but yeah, it puts a lot of pressure on him. I think to like justify the build up, which is not his fault. But it's like we've been waiting for creek Kimball for months, and it's like has Craig kimbrel been asking for too much. And if he shows up now and looks rusty or non dominant than as you were saying, everyone will think go, we'll teams were. Right. Not signed creek kimbrel. But this is a different situation from, if they had signed him in December, let's say probably I'll just degree will all of us who are writers about baseball will agree to, if he struggles which will be thing that we have to write about. We will agree to note the auditing of the situation and part of it, that is definitely not just fault. We'll just all agree. And hopefully, we can set a tone with that discourse that acknowledges, a struggle should there be one but does not. Yeah. Okay. I think we've, we've covered the Craig kimbrel situation as well as we can in fifteen minutes or so you could write a business text book about it. But we don't have time to do that right now business textbooks. You've probably read a few in your day, probably not really entertaining reads, I actually managed to dodge, the whole thing because the funny thing about finances. They just teach you, you need to know one you show up while. Okay. All right. So we can take a quick break. Maybe next time we'll have a Dallas Kyko contract to talk about. We'll say, but we'll be back in just a moment with Eric and Kylie to talk about the draft end development and prospects. So sit back relax, maybe browse to an online, retailer and purchase newly released baseball book called the MVP machine. Baseball's new nonconformists are building better players. And by the time you complete that purchase we'll be back. Case. So the draft is done, and I don't personally know exactly what happened, and that is why we are doing this segment with multiple people who know exactly what happened. They are highly McDaniel in lung and Hagan of fan graphs, and they've already reviewed the first round of the draft team by team for fan graphs in written form if gone through the draft in podcast form on the show on the fan crafts audio feed as well. But today there, joining us to bring some draft knowledge, and I hope that they've gotten some sleep in the last twelve hours or so possibly Kylie. Hello, welcome. Thank you for having me. I also have gotten some sleep in the last you know, the, the one last week that I had, it has been okay. But before that shaky, excellent, an Eric has your alertness level. It is optimal, Ben. Okay. But I I did the melatonin thing last night. So I crashed pretty hard so good. Does that work that their scientific backing for that? Right. I've never tried it. It's my problem is not falling asleep. It's like deciding to go to sleep. So I don't know whether melatonin would be productive for me, your counterproductive. There are some studies that show it's more or less placebo. Can't do it every day. It is a thing. I do like after a flight. Okay. Ben. I imagine you sleep suspended from the ceiling upside down there. You don't sleep at all. It was weird. If he did sleep when I do sleep, it's often during the day. So I have both a face mask that I wear and have recommended on the podcast in the past, and then I also have like curtains around my bed, so that I can slumber during the daytime in vampiric fashion. And it's pretty dark in there that reference wasn't that far off. It all partly. It's because I always just I like old timey bed that has the curtains in the four poster and everything just stylistically. But also it's a practical manner. Anyway. This is not something that applies most people's lives draft talker. Yeah. The draft. So how did your mock headed it, hold up with this generally a predictable draft or an unpredictable draft relative to the typical draft which is always unpredictable? I guess, Kylie, you can start. So I think every expert got the for seven picks, right? And some of them got the top eight picks. Right. Which I don't think normally happens in my suspicion having been on the other side of this before, is that the consensus around with top six or seven picks would be which I think there were multiple mocks that had this correct, like a month out. I think the reason we heard a lot of they might be going under slot with this guy that's sort of not been considered that pick for awhile is because the mocks to accurate up top. And if they're too accurate too long in advance agents, and that might player will. Oh here teams or boxed into we know you want that player. And so prices go up and we know Michael is used to Houston. They would always throughout a way below option. They would always not communicate with agent. They would do whatever they can to create some leverage, where it may not have existed. And now, I think with the sort of coverage of the draft getting a little more sophisticated, I think now, teams agents and mock people, and people that tell us rumors have all sort of figured out that if we are a little too, zeroed and a little too early working here from her wacky stuff at the end which in the last forty eight hours. It's real wacky stuff. So you to determine the draft order is essentially what you're saying. Definitely one of reading your MAC, draft reacting to it takers. Just be random to degree, right? Like the fact that there is such clear demarcation between these top Sixers seven guys and the rest of the middle of the first round basically is just like. Point outright into is they fit with teams injury blonde is to see what the White Sox draft. The last redrafts Jaber is like point to central Padres type of prospect. So I some good fits you to that. I think caused things the beaver stable of top, why from a driver's back and I would also say it's easier to find your universal appeal on players being tier and whatnot. When there's no high school pitchers up there. Sure there weren't. So there wasn't gonna be this team loves that guy team. Wacked him took him off aboard because the arm action or something. Yeah. So speaking of those top six picks they were all position players in, I think, only ten of the thirty two picks in the first round where pitchers Sam, and I were talking about this yesterday from completely uninformed perspective about whether this is a trend, whether this means something about teams devaluing pitchers at the top of the draft. Or whether it is just a weakness of the draft in particular, or a one year blip, or whatever, so Eric de of any thoughts on that. The college pitching group is was bad this year. And we did not have way, lashing, three high school pitchers top of the drafts and just wasn't that tier of his in this year's draft. So it was just a down year on the high end for pitching talents, special high will side just overall for college. So I do think it was more or less more one year of like randomness town polls concern. But I think you're corrected teams are generally valuing engine, I would also throw in the August-September last year we only had one pitcher in like the top seventeen or eighteen so we knew pretty far out of the college pitching was week. I think what happened with two top fifteen was actually stronger than the early projections would have. And we have an article that will actually be going to make at it read after we finish recording this points out that of our twenty twenty six of the top eleven or college pitchers. So, I think it is much more of a blip than like, you know, if there's a bunch of ace possible level. Starters like they will go toward the top. There just weren't any this year next year. There might be some think. Tend to trend toward attrition of the like the pitching pool during the spring, guys get hurts, or don't perform more often than they up it seems like totally any Gotari, but most years, especially the Duke Duke pitching might want to Ayla and Ramsden's this year and Adam Laskey this year, too. Right. Yeah. There's just more regression like. So I look at next year's like the are twenty twenty ranking right now with light fear. You know, like which of these guys is not going to be your next year. There will be one or two or three of them almost guarantee, one of them will blah between the next months. So I'm not gonna these next couple of questions are not inviting in any way a draft grade. 'cause those are dopey we're not interested in being dopey, even if we are tired, but obviously this, this Jeff was particularly important for the Diamondbacks. So we're gonna start micro and then go go macro little bit. And I'm wondering from your perspective, did they end up taking? Being the approach that you expected them to in terms of who they selected was that. What was that approach going in that you were kind of anticipating from them because we saw them, seemingly at every game at the amateur level this year, and then just in general, how do you think they ended up doing on the day or days? I expected them to do you know mix of high schoolers and college players civically college pitching that is where a lot of D-Backs brass have been seeing some of that is like me being a few in seeing backs personnel, constantly his it's right there. The whole pack twelve came through the one pack twelve pitcher and Ryan Nelsen the Oregon reliever who's like, maybe pick a guy who might be quickest to the big leagues if he just thrown in the bullpen. It might be Ryan Nelson. I think it's extemely just got good value orbin Carolina. They were boxed into any one particular player demographic, I think they were just gonna take a value prospect who fell which all teams really from sixteen to nineteen rebel do, and then they took talents. And one of the better college pitchers, Dray Jameson in that compound at pick thirty three and twenty six thirty four to prep arms, and their first of several college pitchers, so it just seems like they probably had high school arms higher on the board. Right. Like this sort of anticipated, Kylie. I don't the high school pitcher spillover into the early forties. This year was I don't know that there's typically the early second round is when those teams get another like three million dollar high school pitching prospect. And I think the quality in that area was down this year like this areas where the hour. Top tier of will pitchers was like the, the comp round. Yeah. I would say the anticipation we had is with those top four picks in the top thirty four sixteen twenty six three three four we've three of those picks they take ice-cool player because they have more money in everyone else, and you can sort of move highschoolers around, which more easily than college players because of the leverage with college commitment shown, three of those were picks were high school players that are generally the higher ceiling type and then they took sort of to do, what most do what they call portfolio approach where you get lake hitter pitcher, high-school college. They didn't follow that with a bunch of college pitchers, and then a couple of college hitters and just sorta got a little bit of each demographic, which I think we expected as they, you know, throw their weight around early high school players, they wanted and then kind of played a little street from there on kind of mix in different demographics, which is pretty close with at least terms or their other teams in the Strath where, you know, they took picks in the first round where you find yourselves either higher or lower than industry consensus. In sort of the quality of those players, the value that they were getting those. Picks. Yeah. I guess breeding shoe, make the Braves pick a twenty one we were on the low end seems compared to where a lot of teams where like we should make at about fifty most tat him like thirty to forty and the Braves took him twenty one it's not like an indefensible pick or anything like that is just we seem as more of, like if this is going to be a regular they'll probably have to swing change. He performed three years of college, but, like basically peaked a freshman, so, you know, these more utility type, but the back of the first-round that's to be reasonably expected like a pretty good outcome for late first rounder. So that was one where there was a sizeable gap early on. And then I think we only had one hitter in the forties. College hitter like with in the forty value here who wasn't drafted in Arizona catcher Matt Dyer. So that would be like the flip side of someone who we liked his prospect, wasn't selected. And then I guess, we're there sort of we take it out to the team level were there teams that just had days that you were particularly impressed with you guys were fans of the Zona draft generally, but were there other ones. Really? Hey, that was a nice little day there, everyone should have coffee. Philly Philly didn't have a whole lot early picks. They picked fourteen in eight pig again, till ninety one and I still thought that their data to like they had an excellent draft. So they got air Miller elected from Stanford at pick one twenty stuff was down trout. The spring mid-nineties last summer and early in the year and then was eighty eight ninety two down the stretch, but was still pitching while secondary stuff is really good. He really pitch. I think he's a candidate for like, bounceback below bounceback, especially they shut him down like this is what's happened with a lot of college arms lately, is get picked the shut down for the rest of the summer, then they come back next year throwing harder, or at least, like return to wherever their peak had been so like Rick Miller at one twenty. They got a couple. Interesting highschoolers as well an Andrew Schultz reliever. Tennessee throws really hard just thought for, for what the Phillies had as far as picks go that the, the did quite well. I would point out. The Mets, we really liked the first pick brick Beatty, who the rumors that he's like, well below slot. Like maybe five or six hundred candor slot, which we had him ranked four spots head where they got him. So the degree if that could pull that off Josh Wolff second round is like a perfectly fine. We basically have ranked they took him and seeing the third round like one of the buzzer picks of the draft taking Matt Allen there. And we much might have been the low guys on Matt Allen because we had him at twenty I think most of the other rankings Adam like thirteen to fifteen were we'll low wary that when the stuff really ticked up the command wasn't there. But in general getting as many of those top tier players as you can is a pretty good strategy, because they did that they were able to hit the sort of priority seniors in round four through ten and so they got sort of first pick those guys, and it sounds like you know, you can get a very good senior who might make a forty man or a big league roster for twenty K and get a guy that you don't really expect to do very much for five K. And if you get to the seniors early for just a little bit extra money, you can get some of the good ones, and they got three of. The I don't know fifteen or twenty hell him aboard right afterwards. They would've played it straight and just mixing seniors in the ninth and tenth. They wouldn't have gotten those guys and that probably doesn't matter. But like it's a nice sort of added benefit of spending, all your money in the first three picks than all, add, Boston to the mix, Matthew Lugo, we'd ranked twenty six and ten teams in thought you're gonna go in the comp rounds and some teams in like the the teams running in support, go to see him lay. We thought he chance to the middle of the first round. In the Red Sox got around to Cayman cannon who we mocked them to pick forty three the ended up taking and then, like pig forty nine took Noah song who I thought was a late first round talent. But there's uncertainty surrounding his naval. Commitments have we an anything more about that in the last couple of days? No, not that no, I don't know if the Red Sox came with any knowledge of what might occur or with anticipation of what might occur. But just you know what you should expect again. Pick fifty what Noah song might be, especially if he's able to head to your camping be a professional baseball player relatively soon. Like I thought it was a big swing. Epic forty nine that, when you don't have a whole lot else going on in your draft like the rocky the Red Sox don't have a didn't have a lot of picks up by, like it's worth take this risk. Even if you know, the worst scenarios, this guy doesn't get to put on a SOX uniform until he's twenty four at that point is like very little chance of making it, but they can get him in sooner than he was undervalued. So I thought that was interesting pick that explains the White House. Visit they had to go sort out the Noah's song, situatio finally an answer. Then you should ask a question now. Sure, soupy out a little, we talked a little bit about the fact that they were more batters taken before the first pitcher than any draft before, which might be indicative of a trend or might just be this year's class. What other long-term were short term trends just on a macro level? Are you observing if any like, what's the what's the hot tactic in the draft these days, however, we weighing college versus high school or certain positions versus other positions like we were to compare the draft is a whole or early in the draft today to the draft ten years ago or twenty years ago. What would be the things that stand out? So the one big thing this year is once you got past that, first year of highschool, bats should be Bobby with junior CJ rooms Brett Beattie INCB, Carol, that's where the consensus order to diverge, and the Amine. We still remember the ranges early studies from what was it like seven or eight years? Ago now about how high school hitter, age, really matters, right. D- hitters for high school, which I have done further research on this, that high school, hitter, specifically in the Takapu rounds is where age matters the most and teams were clearly making decisions based on this, that we got Kiani Cavaco thirteenth, which I think we had a little bit lower than that. We don't twenty second. So we thought that was like a little bit of reach Matthew Lugo, who went in the second round was eighteen point. One Kamako eighteen point. Oh, draft averages eighteen point two or three or anything below that is considered advantages in that regard like Walston pitcher was seventeen point nine Brooks Lee not sign, but he was eighteen point three had some buzz in the first round since a medical thing. They have pushed him to school Spencer. Jones went to school was young Anthony Volpi eighteen point one Kyran para seventeen point six in the second round Gunnar Henderson seventeen point nine in the second round. There are a lot of high school hitters that basically made up that second tier that were all basically on the young side and even the ones went to school that were in consideration. There were also on the young side. And not all of them were in that group, and they sort of, I guess the idea behind these sort of age research. Is basically that these guys are facing guys older than them. And so it's harder for them to stand out, also they physically developed will. But later, you think during the spring is mostly when these guys would emerge and that's basically what happened. But then also we are for multiple teams like oh, we thought we'll Wilson who age also matters a little bit for college hitters as well. He's one of the younger college hitters like through in the model came up better than we thought he would. And then all of a sudden, these guys are sort of slowly, hear them kind of moving up ten fifteen spots, or if they're in the second round, maybe twenty spots once as models, get sort of way in until the scouts like oh, you had him here, you should adjust them here, based on this demographic slick success or failure in the past, I guess, on the pitching side that it's clear. It's spreading like teams care about things like approach angle and spin axis other just more pitchers with vertical arm slots moving up. Moore's look at light gum inside mall, who was taken in the back. The first round by Milwaukee. That's another left you has, like Clayton Kershaw style livery where he throws eighty eight ninety one but gives a lot of reflection on his breaking ball into carved up as he hitters three years while sitting eight ninety one and they're just this type of pitcher who stuff works this way is becoming more pervasive throughout the drafts and moving up boards in generally teams are starting to suss out. What about pitching makes it effective? This seems to be one of the things that like correlated with swinging strikes is our pitches at move in these directions. And so they're just more guys like that going lot of sidearm guys or three traditional three-quarters types are moving down thinker ballers for the Rockies, which is kind of interesting that they're one of the only teams for whom it's advantages. Now I wonder if they have like an outsized advantage because if you are. Teams are targeting sinker balls. But w this is a certain type of pitcher that now seems more desirable. So do you think there's more or less consensus across the league into draft boards internal draft boards? Look more similar to each other, or less than they did when everyone was kind of going by naked eye and gut feel and make up as opposed to now where they're going by technology. But certain teams are integrating, that bit more into their process than others. I think they look more similar now because back in the day, you could just have a scouting director and the national cross sugar that didn't like a prospect in that opinion was spread throughout the organization and the whole team be off the player and the really newbie. There wouldn't be a reason why basically, to people's opinions made the team out where it was, you know, sort of random. Those guys are spread throughout the week that if you know eighty percent of the Mike player twenty percent don't some teams going to have two or three guys in a row top that don't like him. So it was sort of random and hard to tell which teams were in around on a player on type, and now that models are all sort of, you know, using the same information. I think people analyzing formation differently, but stuff like young high school hitter should be moved up like everyone knows this, including people on the internet. And we can look at teams track records and see that they're valuing this and so like some models. Like I've been told her more than fifty percent scouting reports, and they just wanna have all this demographic, data to sort of round up around down on Scott airports, and like have stuff around up around down, the pitchers used guy reports and other ones. It sounds like they slavishly do whatever the model tells them to which, obviously means they're gonna take like, you know, the guys that fall right into the media, part of the curve of the, you know, the young hitter, trachman friendly pitcher, or the guy with performance or the guy that was famous over the summer is ranked and all the public rankings or all those sorts of things because I think it sounds like if not thirty at least twenty five teams have a model and I would say ten to fifteen teams really pay attention to the model in one way or another, that they're going to all be on similar sorts of players, especially if they like check three or four boxes. Whereas the guys check like one box anyone model disagree with another. But the ones that sorta check all the boxes but maybe aren't. Scouting type those guys are gonna be rated almost same everybody. I think that bores. Look very different for org who are, are not confident in their cleared. I think that the more measurable stuff exit vetos things that the camera Meissner, the Marlins one of their early picks is the guy with a huge tools who needs college back needs a lot work that is of him who that is player like the Yankees and your the Marlins have yet he cleared them staff. That's the on that guy like they knew they could fix ACA, or they common as why think that teams who are better at the at the player debt stuff. I think the way they look at the draft varies compared to those who are still been behind were there any drafts where, you know, we've seen in recent years systems that are defined by a particular approach where we have sort of there's a lack of variety in the ecosystem, right? The Astros have these guys with law span, and big curve balls, the dodgers have headers with power and strikeout issues. Were there any drafts? Were you saw surf related to, to what you just said, a player type are merging that might be of interest to them? Or is there too much variation for us to really draw any kind of conclusion like that we will draft the youngest prospects draft gotten a bunch of Cleveland mock draft picks? Correct. The last couple years, just like okay. Who's the youngest guy on the board? Who's around this range on talent went there with perhaps the up with three or four seventeen year old players? The took a in the third round like very polish under size high school ballot six foot one hundred eighty pound first baseman from so cow like projection lists just swat little high school kid. Just mashed against pretty good, southern California pitching offspring wasn't automated showcase, the herash year, totally spring-like Papa guy, if you like him. But everyone put it into this typical Cleveland, polish high school hitters who are also young. And then they also do the famous high school pitcher that Kylie not believe that like the Cleveland Cleveland model stretches over two years on the bottom, soft more performers agit down your years were high school pitchers. Stop was much better than the summer before was downward with that spring. And that was Daniel beano. They're they're jumping users like ninety five ninety nine last summer who are ninety to ninety five the spring to draft ago. It was even Hank into stuff as much better, the summer before the ended up with Brady aching at one point. So Cleveland is one of easiest sort of no scope in length, the mock in my opinion, Kylie. This one is. For you. You wrote as part of our draft. We coverage about swing changers, noting that you, you guys at sort of trend or a rumor emerging pre-draft about prep arms. Hugh might be inclined to go to professional organizations for their Dev. Instead of relying on colleges, which are somewhat behind on the hitting side compared to the pitching side. And I'm wondering if there were any dude SU struck you as sort of fitting that trend in this in this year's draft. Do we see it like you thought you would as you sort of that question? I sort of paint is like, oh, yeah, I read an article about look for this in the draft. And now the draft is over, and I never looked to see. So while you're question was going, I was scrolling through the fourth round because it's kind of the beginning of this range say, I think I noticed six high school hitters that signed or or expected to sign and nice at least it was way lower. I thought that would have been mad and I definitely have heard that article got contacted by people, you know, sort of around the, the scouting worlds in various parts of it saying, like, oh, yeah, I kind of noted this. I wasn't sure if it was just my area. Just my region, or just our teams board or whatever. So it seems like other people are seeing this, too, and as I'm continuing to score through the six Reynolds. A couple more of them. So, yeah, I would say at least held serve in terms of the, the number that have been in the past. It looks like there may be a few extra. But I think that dynamic definitely exists, because obviously there could be four or five people that just chose not to go to school because he ran out. And so I wouldn't I wouldn't let the results define if that's happening because it sounds like it's definitely happening, and it will affect high school hitters decisions, and it may eventually affect high school pitchers decisions. Although one of the things we talked about with Zona about the Milwaukee also where these small vertical slot. I noticed when I was at the SEC tournament for day that I watched Arkansas Vanderbilt and almost all of their pitchers are big dudes in the mid nineties throw from over the top slots through her balls. So progressive pitching stuff. That's in pro baseball right now, has spread Oregon's already did spread to some of the elite colleges that are sort of on the cutting edge of things. I don't think there's very, many more beyond those Baptist is probably one of them a couple other SEC teams, I think considering these things, but, like there's probably less than ten whereas you talking about. Progressive hitting things in my article I wrote that when you ask outs, what college is best at, developing hitters, the most communist was laughter because there's not only is there not one. But most of them are actively going the other direction. So that's why I think pitchers are little more likely to go to college all things being equal. But yeah, I would say if you were to do like a three or four year study of like this year in the next three against the previous four I think there would definitely be more high school hitter, signing than the were in the past. We looked at the top of the next couple draft classes, right after the draft was done. We certainly moving is you sign into future years. And as we come through the ranks every previously haven't found we were moving pitchers down like Mike baffles. We had the middle of a percent last year in Virginia. And stuff was way down, all year old who's very hit Ables. So see, I just the way pitchers trend in general, but I do agree that there's a problem of incentives in college baseball, the coaches are just not there. Ten vice to do things necessary to win and sometimes it's at the expense of player death. Brought about the pitching side of that quesion last week at the ringer also bit in the book. And in that ringer piece, I talked about a couple guys at Dallas Baptist and one of them went to the Mets and one of them went to the Mariners. And I mentioned a guy with Hiwa who went to the Astros. And so, I think that is happening at some D one schools, one thing, I've heard from people was that we're going to start seeing pitchers at least certain pitchers move quickly through the minors, because they'll have made these adjustments even before they get into pro ball. And they'll just need a little seasoning. And then they'll just quickly ascend through the minor league levels. And I wonder whether you think that will be the case because one of the surprises to me when I was working on the book and doing some research is that. Even though we're seeing this youth movement and baseball even though player development is really advancing the average debut age in baseball has not changed and the average experience in the minors prior to making a major league debut has not changed that going back twenty years. It's the same today, and there could be multiple reasons for that. I think their service time stuff. There's the fact that some older players are making changes and are getting to the majors who might not have gotten there before. So they're sorta skewing the averages. So I just wonder whether you think we will start to see players move more quickly in general, and whether we'll see some pitchers really ascend quickly. And whether there's anyone who stands out in particular. I think you mentioned one Eric already, but anyone who stands out and whether you think that will be a league wide change. I guess the things that you mentioned is, as things that could be influencing that or the two things that came to mind as you ask the question for me, like, yes, the service time stuff is going to suppress how quickly individual players reach. Bigly and as player Dev, has improved, it's improved for everyone. Not just the young is ranked in recent years. So yes, I think that's what has happened. But at some point, there won't be old guys who were rice finding out about this stuff. You'll find out about it in college or when you first get into the minors, and then, you know, he'll make whatever that adjustment is rightly, or find out on Twitter when you're thirteen yes. Yes. So, yeah, I think that there's I think there's a chance that is what you see occurring far, especially as far as the pitching his concern, I think they're going to be huge changes to Miley baseball the next day. I think especially if Miley player compensation changes that the way, we will get like the layers of the minor leagues might change, so fundamentally the like it's completely unrecognisable layers of rookie ball going away and stuff like that. I think is, is in play just gonna push change the way players developed in their time runs to the big lease. But yes, I think that when, when Kylie wrote about count as being bad at player dab. Not like they're definitely some exceptions to that. I think there's a reason we saw people hired away from colleges. This past off season. Some of them were actually had been ahead. And now like throwing money at the at the fact that they're behind. So I think, yeah, specially from certain programs. Yeah. And I think it's worth. The number of programs that are capable doing it are growing, but I think they're all over the place Nick junior colleges or good at it. And yes, I think that there's, there's a formulaic component. That's the pitcher's getting through earlier. And I think we'll start to see players more quickly especially if teams teams aren't so disincentivize from moving them quickly. Yeah. And that'd be good from making the draft more interesting to a wider audience to if you can expect to see some of these guys soon baseball sniffer gonna be football and basketball in that respect. But I think if you could add some immediacy where I mean Joshi and ran a thing in his newsletter this past week just about how little major league impact. We've seen even like from going back to twenty sixteen draft let alone the last couple. It's just it takes so long for guys to get there and for them to become impact players that just from a mass appeal perspective, would be nice if the timeline could be shortened, at least a little bit now. Maybe evidence that what your your theory is correct, that the ones couple drafter Sony players like AA hill yesterday in CJ, Alexander who was like a mid round pick. In twenty eight teen. Already at AA their kids are pushing pushing is now I think, challenging them and forcing adjustment like via failures. Also important component player, Dev. So, yeah, I don't think while I agree. That that's probably why it's hard to get capital fans into. That before the draft, we published our pre draft farm system rankings. And I know that we have yet to complete the exercise fully where we adjust everything for the post raff environment, but are there systems that jump out to either of you, in particular as having moved the needle? I mean, it's, you know it's one day, and obviously again, we're not doing greats Dookie minus everyone's a star fair purple, but are there systems where you feel that there has been some movement, perhaps of a significant variety with the guys that they've taken in this draft even tell me now and then we can just cut this whole bit out zone is obviously one because they had a bunch of picks and we think we did pretty well with them. So there's going to be a lot of both depth than sort of higher end players added when the kid of mine with me was Miami, who in the first ten rounds, basically hood, our third thirty thirty first and ninety four players looks able to sign them all. And then some interesting guys later, but I think. The way you define a Flint, a draft class is going to make a farm system better in, like short-term. You basically have to look at like the top one hundred players basically, how many did they get? And the Marlins had three picks top fifty and somehow got four of the top one hundred you can kind of move money around to make this happen. Other teams we'll get like one of the top one hundred because they just take players. We didn't quite as much and Miami obviously, hasn't had a sterling track record lately, when it comes to personnel. Soften some of it's been bad luck or whatever. But it looks like they did pretty well here with the for sheer director this organ move the most like just the highest prospects are the ones that move systems, the most show Baltimore. I mean it was obvious. But Baltimore Halley Richmond is a top fifteen prospect in baseball. And they got a lot of other good players past hours center fielder from Stanford. If you guys see him swaying, looks like Cody Bellinger looks like Jok peers Lincoln's that type persuading this guy is probably gonna get there. Power in pro ball, gunner. Henderson was something's considering the back of round one. The Orioles got him at forty two like they just got a bunch of good players, which is, you know, an including best guy. So. Yeah. I thought Baltimore than really well, both on on high in town on debt. I don't know how predictable the following years draft is just after this one was completed. Is it even my question? Sorry, I guess it's the obvious one to kinda rep up here, but is it even possible to look ahead and say, this is the strength of the weakness of next year's class or like here's the most interesting person who might be the top pick or is there, just so much variance that it's just too soon to say in general? I think you can look at it. Because if you look at the top of this draft like alley Richmond was in our town by the end of the summer, he was number one Bobby Witt. We knew two years before he was drafted into von. We have really early Riley green. We had early siege Abrahams. We had these were all those three high school pusher, probably three of the top. Ten players for two years ago for this class Dolo had a veto bump JJ day had a crazy season. Those guys were probably like comp rounders moved into the top ten but weren't like names. We didn't have just young team. USA was in the first round Shalem players in the first round. So that was in hundred Bishop was probably third rounder who had never performed in nuts this year. So nobody really saw that one coming. But like the top ten we basically, had all those guys identified and in, you know, the first day, except for probably Bishop, but like he probably shouldn't have been on the first day. So I think when it comes to, like, the top ten fifteen picks we're actually pretty good at, at least saying, hey, here's seventy guys that are all in the mix to go in the top thirty next year and we're probably gonna get twenty or twenty five of the thirty four or not gonna get everybody next year's group, as far as the classes, a whole can be evaluated. Let me just don't know yet that the period of time when we see most of the high school talent is upon us. I'll be doing invent next week, but like the top of the draft George George has two guys who are like top five talents. Emerson handcock in co Wilcox. Both like mid to upper nineties fastball. The college arms Spencer Torkelsson is next year's Andrew von multi-year, elite performance base type. So those, those types pursuit as long as the pitching stays healthy. This is the group at the top of next year drafts in, like the first high score from this was the first high score way identified him this group. Was it able, Kylie McCabe? I think he I think he was basically two years ago. There were like, oh, crap, this might be the best high school pitcher in this class. So it's in Oregon pitcher, six six one eighty you can see why when this kid was fifteen everyone was like, oh, wow. Look that he was, like eight ninety two as a sophomore in is now ninety three ninety six at his best than he's been healthy lost just been climbing slowly flake, the last several seasons like that is the that was the first high score from this group on he's been tracking well to from program perspective. I know that the answer the first answer. To this Vanderbilt, but apart from Vanderbilt what, what college programs do you think people should keep an eye on? Obviously, we're always away from light. They're being college baseball again, which is sad. But looking. I know. But like it's it's wrapping up. You know, we don't have a whole lot more time. But next year, there are a couple of programs, maybe the people should be especially keen on. And I know the answer is Vanderbilt. What's the second answer certain ones, probably Florida? I think they would have been close Vanderbilt if they got Matthew Allen, which outlets like they won't. But I guess there's, there's some chanson I actually may know this have article in the hopper for next week about the sort of topic, the Amion that. Yeah, he knew that. And then I think the rest of them is just probably like true traditional powers, which Eric feel free to jump in. But I feel like in general when you talk to scouts about, like, what are the best like jobs for coaches in college baseball, or whatever, like the most talented like Perot prospect tight teams, it's almost always some mix of like LSU Vanderbilt, Florida, maybe North Carolina Louisville. It had traditionally been Clemson in areas that UCLA kinda jump in there, too. But it's like there's a group of eight or ten teams. And if you were rank all of the colleges based on talent, like those eight or ten would probably make up four or five of like, you know, top half dozen any given time and it seems like float like Florida Vanderbilt LSU are probably like the perennial like in the top five every year kind of teams. Yeah, I agree with a may implies that, that kaud- vegetables like a wonderful February appetizer, when you haven't had baseball in four months. So everyone should check it out. Like next year you'll streams. Use your parents cable subscription in get on watching PM on your PlayStations, malice goes to the program to watch like ASU's losing two guys, they had a lot of tat like prospects depth this year. They like six guys who were top one hundred type draft house on on the group, this year between them relieving UCLA will will there like the west coast powerhouse, UCLA, Stanford Stanford typically has had better college players in pro prospects. I don't think that's the case anymore. They, they have the pitcher Brandon Becker next year who's like plus heard ball, plus commands college. Righty. So they'll be interesting to me how they're their third base shortstop. He's played all over for them was a two sport star in high school who's playing baseball for Stanford can have a couple of kids like that on the next Brock Jones leave was a Boras advised this. This draft did not even the he was drafted, but he's was like untouchable, since he was a high school sophomore, like going to Stanford since forever like stamp Stanford next year putting interesting too. I would also add ole miss Mississippi State. I think another important point is that Regina used to be in this discussion. I feel like now they're like a tier below that. And because they have such a terrible track record with pitchers, and have such a regressive approach with they're actually getting less high-profile recruits, which, I don't wish bad things on any program. I know multiple agents have asked me. Hey, I just got a kid. He's committed Virginia. We're going to switch them. Good idea. Right. And I go, yeah. Seems like you've figured out what I would have answered. I'm glad you asked me, the question, rather than me, proactively, telling you this. There's actually one kid this year that will be going to school that was originally committed Virginia. His agent gun, switch, and now he's going school. So like they lost a probably pretty good player because they're perceived as being backward in these ways. And this was the first year long time, where the highest the highest ranked pitcher commit to that school was never. Seen as like a sign of question. Mark, everybody. Knew that coach, Jack Ohana, winces Philadelphia area, high school was going to sign and I muse of the router, I saw the jailed Shiffman just wrote recently for baseball perspectives about pitcher usage in college and looked at pitch counts and recovery times, and he's previously written about that for the hardball times. And obviously pitchers are still an injury risk and pitcher's, throwing really hard. And of course, there's always the chance that they'll blow out an elbow or something else. But has that very agreed type of pitcher handling receded somewhat just via public shaming, and gradual enlightenment, like, are we seeing fewer hundred fifty pitch outings where the kids, just like I would have pitched all night in the coach was like I wanna win or want to keep my job. And that's all I care about. There's been a little less of the hundred fifty pitch thing. I think that got drummed out a little bit. And now it's, you know, one twenty to one thirty is kind of like the limit where they're still some guys like look and Gilbert last year. Now minoa this year. Steps in West Virginia both had like, you know, every other start one hundred twenty pitches kind of thing which we you got a week week long of rest. If it's like a physically developed kid has good commandos fastballs. Like you could see someone justifying that not being a problem, but you'd rather not see it. I think the real issue is when you see the guy go one hundred twenty pitches, and then on, like one day rest come out and throw fifty pitches, and that still happens a lot like there was there's one instance, this year may tweeted about it, where Missouri had told scouts that this guy's either gonna start on Saturday are coming relief on Sunday. And he just did both. And there was a guy with Louisville recently that just got drafted name Nick Bennett that remember the details, but I believe it was one hundred pitches. One day off in came in through thirty pitches, or may maybe more than that. I think I think the coaches pay enough attention that they know that the local like college newspaper will be like hundred pitches. That seems like a lot, but they're not going to hold their feet to the fire when it comes to like, oh, we'll use this guy, you know, twice in three days, two hundred pitches, one of those days, just because it's a little a little more esoteric, and also like in the postseason. They're kind of set up to where if they only have if short bench of six pitchers like they're gonna do that. Now what they should do is get more pitchers. Like Florida's a good example of this relate abuse pitchers at I don't know if it's because Kevin O'Sullivan has a very hard line. I won't do it, but he also has like a staff of fifteen pitchers twelve will be throwing in pro ball one day. So, like he doesn't have to abuse them because he has too many pitchers. He often times will bring in freshman and instances were doesn't need to be a pitching change because he doesn't want them to transfer because he's too many pitchers. So obviously, like that would be one way to avoid doing it. But I think because these guys, especially in ACC SEC are getting paid so much money. Like there's a half dozen guys making over a million dollars. Now almost all of them are making well into the like mid six figures, like they're gonna keep doing this because you can never tie TJ to use this guy that one timing yelled at and then lose recruits, it'll happen. Maybe if you're Virginia, you're sort of lake using guys in a non ideal way and teaching them things that don't help. And then you have tenure track record of making the big leagues like that might affect it. But like you and see brings in some lefty for like, you know to too often in one. Long super regional series like it's not really gonna affect them, but it might make him win and get an extension. So the incentives are still aligned in such a way that that's probably gonna keep happening and we're in the time of year when this stuff is happening like the college baseball playoffs are occurring right now. This is when that type of thing is most likely to occur, I think, yeah. Like it so happens. I think the most I've saw college arm throws. He'll start this year is warmed twenty Ryan Garcia UCLA when we're less than a euro kit, Kevin able throwing a hundred thirty pitches in Colorado series game couple days after he had pitched a previous game. So, yeah. We'll bring out the sprint. Yeah. So the alley now is the time, especially now the kids happened rafted, where who knows like all bets are off what can happen allergies originals end in Omaha. Yeah. One other thing I wanted to ask I touched on this in the book and I've been asked about it in a couple interviews this week. But people are curious about whether these changes in technology and development, and what teams are targeting will have an effect of excluding more players people from certain economic backgrounds, whether it will be even harder to kind of catch teams attention, whether there will be more 'gate-keeping 'cause you already have the expenses associated with travel ball and showcases and perfect game in that whole industry. But if teams are looking at spin officiency or attack angle in those things than if course, if you've been to facility or school that has those sensors knows how to use them and you get the proper instruction, maybe that makes him more attractive. On the other hand, I guess there are guys who may be do those things naturally and don't come from a great privileged background. But now they're talent is able to be recognized because people are able to quantify those things that they can do. So what's the. Checked? They're like, do you have to be wealthier now to get drafted high up or what we see a democratizing effect, or the opposite of that. If you ask the average parent, they would say that they believe yes. But if you ask the average count, they would say, no, if your kid like is in one of it, where it was reasonably easy to see whether it's one showcase one ornament one matchup against highschool. Theo poor high school or gets to one like MLB event, or whatever that if it's enough I put on a list. We'll go back and see him. And then we'll find good. And if you somehow we are not on right for the draft. He goes to decent college because he got on a radar will then draft him out of there. Like, I think the d guys that are top five round talents that just aren't seen enough, because they're not getting the encouragement to play like, I think that's kind of a false dichotomy. I don't think that really exists, but I do think some kids think it will be more difficult or parents. It will be more expensive. And so they go do a an easier or cheaper sports or go to the sport, that has a full scholarship for college, and I'm not gonna see us the wrong choice. But I think if you're good enough to get offered six figures out of five. School like you will be found. It's not it's not it is very hard to hide a player. Like there was a player this year that we thought was hidden that, like ten or twelve teams knew about and about a month later. All three teams do about so does not last that long. You think that there's going to be any push the, the Commissioner has sort of hinted at this to move the timing of the draft cause right now or like in regionals, and also we just saw kid like get drafted right before he went. He was like in the on deck circle and hit a home run. So do we think that there's gonna be any change in the spacing here, so that we could maybe make the draft a little bit more of an event understanding that the limitation is always going to be, how far away, these guys are from the majors in the fact that they're like high school kids, no one has seen to piggyback on that? The venue in the location to enter, there's been some discussion of may be moving it to Omaha. You'd have a ton of kids. They're an actual live audience has opposed to the freezing, airless MLB network. Studio, where you're like piping in crowd, noise. And no one is actually there, the Caucasus sufficient fancy for the draft. Well, the funny thing there been is have you known the NCAA to be a logical or open minded on any front because they are the problem. They're not many things that will be like Manfred, whoever the spokesman is, we would like to do this thing that we would like to happen, and then the other entity involve says, no effing way will happen. And that's basically the NCAA said is I, I think their stance is we don't want to be associated with these players, not playing and making seem like we're encouraging the go to pro ball and make it more obvious that we're taking advantage of their labor because that would just got paid five million dollars. But he's still got a few more games for us. I think further on the MLB side. They would like to not have players be drafted. And then go get abused in a game right afterwards. When these definitely leaving if there was ever a question. And also, if you move it back, then you have a medical combine you can have an actual combine you could have like a mini competitive league that I'm gonna be runs where it's like, you know, all the kids, we deem top six round quality in the southeast all gonna play each other three times before the draft happens. And then we'll have. Arrives for all of them. Well, all of these different sort of sport science things done, like there's all kinds of things that can happen. She both make 'em will be more money as a draft event to have cooperation from college baseball. Maybe get some baseball fans that don't like the draft to be interested, and then also to get teams more time to get better information to have higher our ally and make better investments. It seems like a universal good. But when his the been interested in that as far as the timing of the draft is concerned, I know that, yes, I think, in addition to what the Commissioner said that people have been talking about moving the timing for various reasons for a while now. And the, the problem is the short season clubs at fire up in mid June that made players. And so that in connection with what I said earlier about how I think in the next CBS like the shape of the minor leagues might change. This is further evidence think these things are connected. The idea that the draft should be later, and that there might be less rookie ball or a second folly for younger players. Or some other player damn device like a difference things are timed differently might be in play. So, yeah, I think that you'd have to see other things changed were the timing of the draft to shift, but there are rumors that stuff is changing anyway. And because it's fun to consider surprises in potential and unexpected outcomes. Is there anyone from last year's draft who's the person drafted last year who, if he were to redraft all of last year strategies would move up the most like who's the person who's, I know not necessarily come out of nowhere. But maybe come out of nowhere or just bumped themselves way up because they performed in some way, that was not intimated, well known Gorman the, the high school there Vatian from here in Arizona fell all in seventy felt nineteen and he's just mashed like as a teenager in full season ball, he hits a lot of home runs last summer after the draft at advance rookie ball his continued. To play well, we were kind of confused how he fell as far as you did. He definitely does not that farm, if you redraft last year's draft right now and the players, I think we were a little higher on where they went that have all done pretty, well, Xavier Theresa thirty eight hundred seventeen practice around seventeenth. They read the draft right now. Cuyler Murray would probably go a lot lower. If I had to guess. Look, look Gilbert, went fourteen because villa was down and Israel's come back so he might screwed up a little bit. Daniel Lynch went thirty four we had twenty thirty Prego somewhere around twenty he redid that one Jordan GRA Shans twelve to twenty eighth prior on that one. He might even go higher than twelve now 'cause he's been, he's had a pretty good pretty byu in trista CASAs twenty six and we had him, thirty third, and he would probably move a good bit from there under the rollout of teams in the twenties wanted him. So I guess that was some indicator that he was seen to be very good hitter which he has done in pro ball. He's in low now is a eighteen year old is really a lot. I also think Jaren Duran, the Red Sox, the Red Sox seventh rounder. Are kind of were coming back through the org lists. And this guy's hitting, he's just pushing AA played two games at AA now he's drafted a counter year ago, it high before his promotion. He was hitting three eighty four fifty five forty. He's a plus plus rounder. The cut like someone sent me me reports the contact is very strong. So like this is a this is someone who were like really something very high on his Mikey atop one hundred you by the end of the year. He's performing AA, who was a seventh round last year. So as far as raw number of spots goes this strong Canada's. Well, I'd also throughout Brennan. Davison cold Runar with the cubs in out Thomas with D-Backs think of all, even if it right after the draft or recently have been hitting enough that I think they probably a little bit higher all rights. And last thing before we let you go, so that you can file and post content on thank dot com. I wanted to ask this as a subject for whole other. Podcasts, the international drafting fortunately, you have recently recorded one such podcast, and I will link to it. You guys talked about it in just defining podcasts, on the topic, the definitive one. So that. That at least the people on this podcast, but that would say that so Kylie, I'm sure you'll be turning your attention to second in the international market soon. So I just want like a can be a three word answer from each of you. I guess a should there be an international draft, be will there be an international draft and see what year will that happen. If you think it will happen. So I guess Eric, you can start. No. There shouldn't be an international draughts. You're something else out people. Yes, there will be international draughts twenty twenty three. I think it will take time. I think there are kids Ardian deals, two years from now, and some point like MLB is gonna have to pull plug make it happen. Even when some of those who probably was broken now, but I think they'll be sensitive to for a while. Like we'll know it's coming or before you can make a bad decision. I suppose as like as a scout. Ashley, I don't love the idea of draft for the sort of labor implications but both the draft international or both hard capsule ready and I can't imagine them becoming unharmed Capt. So the money is already fixed. It's just which mechanism will deliver the player to the team. And I think while it probably should not be drafts in America. I think in Latin America does create some incentives that are good in terms of not making deals with thirteen year olds because you have picks you have to wait for your turn to pick. So I think because of the specific sort of third world markets. You're dealing with the draft maybe a better mechanism to deliver the players. If you're already set on having hard caps numbers like that, and also being increased the amount of sort of games in competitive situations for those players, which actually would make them in better teams sounds as part of international draft. It'd be raising the hard slotted pools. So the remote money in the market is, well, I think there will be no national draft. And I believe it's one of the next as, as my which I believe, is twenty twenty two would be the defected, because it sounds like mobile wanted to try to earlier, but they have some we'll say. Tough federations to deal with in Mexico in Asia to actually make it a draft for all of the international players. There's no, you know, sort of player scooting through in making loopholes and getting big deals and all that. And also, like your accent like their d'oeuvres in multiple international directors that have said, hey, let me know when you hear when the drafts going to be because I'm like thinking about locking up a twenty twenty right now. And I don't want to lock up the deal at have to walk out of what that be like a thirteen year old or something. Yup. That's going on down there not happening, but it's not great. Not good at all. All right. Well, that was many more words than three words, but they were good words, so thank you. So you can all find Eric Kylie, on the fan graphs audio feed, talking about prospects very regularly. You can find writing about prospects and the draft on fan Gus dot com. You can find him on Twitter at Kylie Mukti and at long Hagen, and I guess you guys can go and take your melatonin. Thank you for coming on. I'm gonna go hit some caffeine real hard and then shoot a rental commercial. All right. That will do it for today in for this week one last impassioned plea. Please go buy my book. It's called the MVP machine out. Baseball's new nonconformists are using data to build better players way bestseller. Lists work is that they can't each week's sales separately. Our first week is our best chance to get on bestseller lists. So if you buy the book on Friday, or Saturday, it will count toward that total will give us a better shot. I think we do have shot. But every copy counts, it would mean a lot to me and Travis. And I think you'll like the book if you're in the market for a Father's Day gift, it makes for a fine one, but it can be any kind of gift for any occasion. Get it now and save it to bestow upon someone later. It's forty percent off on Amazon as I speak. So please do pick up a copy and let us know what you think. And if you like it let the world know what you think leave review on Amazon good reads that helps us out too well as seemed likely it appears that the Dallas Kyko saga has also come to a close, so I guess the off season is officially over. Now the news is just breaking as prepare to post this, but he's going to the Braves looks like. It will be a one year deal for a measly thirteen million out Beit for less than a full season. That makes sense. The Braves could use them. The rotations been a little south of socio this season. Schon Newcomb's been moved to the bullpen which also needed help. Guzman's been bad Fulton? Evidence has been bad sarokin has been good. But of course, he's been hurt from time to time free tailed off a little Tehran. Okay. So I think douse kaikal makes a lot of sense for them just as kimbro. What if I wouldn't describe kaikal as difference maker in most context? Now, if he were difference maker, he probably wouldn't have had to wait until June to sign east not the guy he was in his Cy Young season. And it doesn't really fit the profile of a modern major league starter kind of pitch to contact guy relies on his sinker, which isn't invoke these days, but with the same caveats that we applied to Kimbrell and his possible rustiness Kyko should be dependable, and that's kind of what the Braves needed didn't even if he's not a difference maker in the average rotation. He could be a difference maker in the tation 'cause they need someone like him. And they're locked in a very tight race that just got tighter with the absence of Andrew mccutchen. Although, of course the. This will be upgrading to, but this is one of the places that Keiko could have gone and actually potentially swung race. So the destination make sense, and now we can close the books on the two outstanding free agents whereabouts were hanging over the season to some extent one follow up to last week. When Meghan I talked about Elton the Pacific northwest Fendt, ac- player, who was aiming to be good, again, by twenty twenty seven we talked about why and how that could be true. Well turns out, it's not entirely true. We got in touch with Elton opened a heavy on the show, and he is actually Elton, and he is actually in the Pacific northwest. And he is a fantasy player, but he is not actually targeting twenty twenty seven for his rebuild. Some of his league mates were trolling him because he is in a competitive downcycle right now. And so they were suggesting that it would take him that long to get good. Again, that was not nice to Elton. So we're sorry for playing right into the trolls hands, but Elton was very good sport about it seems like a very nice guy. And the story had a happy ending because baseball perspectives, and Craig Goldstein in the folks over there extended a free six months absorption to their bat signal. Service where fit to see players can ask questions of the fantasy writers at the site. So Elton got something out of this experience, which is nice Elton. We're all pulling for you. And frankly, if you're league still exists in twenty twenty seven that's pretty much victory. There's a lot of turnover in fit to see leagues. And one more quick thing. I wanted to mention I've been enjoying watching trout in Tani even more so than usual lately, because they've both been raking each of them has hit three homers in the past week, Tiny's looking really good again. And I saw post on MLB dotcoms cut foresight about how Trump no tinier the new bash brothers, Betson apt comparison kinda get the same feeling watching them. It gets the purest thing in baseball. His watching Mike trap. Celebrate Shohei Ohtani Homer, just bottle that site in dowsman it both. So happy for each other that Mike pals they're so good at baseball. This is why I took the angels. I in the fun team draft even though the rest of the angels aren't that fun at all. You can't support this podcast on patriot going to patriot dot com slash affectively wild following five listeners have already signed up and put some of the amount to keep podcast going Jeffrey Schwarz bail. Tom Lasco, Isaac Stevenson and Russell Steve. Thanks twelve you, you can review and subscribe to actively weld on, I tunes, another podcast platforms. You can join our Facebook group at Facebook dot com slash group such affectively wild and you can contact us via Email at hot cats fan dot com or via the pitch Mustang system. If your supporter thanks to Higgins for his edit existence hope you all having wonderful weekend joined the MVP machine, if you're reading it already and we will talk to you early next week.

Kylie McDaniel Baseball Craig kimbrel cubs Red Sox Ken Rosenthal Craig Mets dodgers Eric Craig Edwards Twitter brewers kimbrough Braves Daniel beano Ben soberest Astros Dallas Noah
176 Traffic Pattern Stall Myths, Listener Feedback + GA News

Aviation News Talk podcast

1:00:17 hr | 6 months ago

176 Traffic Pattern Stall Myths, Listener Feedback + GA News

"Hello again and welcomed aviation news talk where we talk general aviation with relevant news and flying tips for pilots and sudan. Pilots to help keep you safe. I'm extra scott today. We'll be talking with tom. Turner of the american bonanza society about myths about where stalls are most likely to occur in the traffic pattern where they actually do occur. And we'll talk about the kind of training you can do to avoid those stalls and we're looking for an airline pilot who nearly thirty years ago helped inspire a teenage girl to pursue a career in aviation in will share her story last week and episode one seventy five we talked with founders of four flight for an update on new features and we talked with a cfi about her engine. Failure piper. Malibu so if you didn't hear that episode you may want to check it out. I hope you learn a lot from the show today. Here's the one thing. I'd like to ask you to do which is to share this show with your friends. Just look for the button. On whatever app you're using to listen to me now. Click on that incentive to a friend who you think might benefit from the show and then follow up with him or her and suggests that they subscribe. Thanks so much for help this week in the news. We have startling numbers on how many airline pilots are out of work. A man is arrested for giving fake. Atc instructions airplanes and a now former a. Employees the sentence for crime. All this and more and the news starts now from general aviation news dot com. Ea launches arrow educate for kids five. Eighteen arrow educate the newest youth aviation initiative from the. Ea will bring an interactive experience to young people ages five to eighteen beginning in twenty twenty one airline tickets. Webbie's resource provides age appropriate pathways to aviation and aerospace engagement as well as career pez according to officials a multitude of easy to use aviation themed activities for teachers and ea chapters can be used at sites ranging from classrooms to ea chapter hangars. The best part everything is free for teachers chapters across the country jack pelton. Espn ceo said what ea has created with educate is a wide ranging programme. Were child can reach specific goals in aviation that are achievable affordable and engaging this is the next step for direct youth aviation education that was pioneered by the ea young eagles program in the nineteen nineties aero educate will encourage participation from young people their parents teachers and ea chapters in a way the builds interest in aviation from initial fund to possible career. Pass since since the beginning of nineteen ninety-two young eagles program has given free. Flights and j aircraft to more than two billion young people between the ages of eight and seventeen elements of the new era. Educate program include a badging program which awards digital badges when young people complete different activities career pathways to demystify the journey to a career in aviation classroom activities to help educators spark interest among youth and a database of youth aviation activities which is creating nationwide opportunities for people to participate that we interviewed e as ron kindly about this program on this week's geeks podcast which is episode six thirty nine so you may want to check it out. One of the things that we talked with roundabout is that children as early as five years old often. Get an interest sparked in aviation which then leads to career in aviation from that early age from plano mag dot com. We finally know exactly how bad the pandemic spin for airline pilots. Survey has come out that finally puts into numbers. The level of pain that commercial airline pilot community faces. The number of pilots who are now unemployed following the pandemic is staggering. The study was conducted by goose. That's g. o. S. e. a pilot recruitment firm along with publisher flight global and it found that nearly half of all pilots worldwide. Either looking for work or furloughed poll found that thirty percent of those surveyed said that they were out of work in looking with another seventeen percent saying they were furloughed and awaiting further news. In addition six percent said they were still employed with their airline but they were now doing nonflying work so more than half a pilot's lawsuit flying job as a result of the pandemic of those who are looking goose says eighty percent said they accept a cut in pay for a new job fly global recruitment sales manager key. Man said it's simply a shocking reality of the state of the aviation industry that more than half of the world's pilots are not employed as pilots and flying as they have been trained to do. She went on to say that. The research found that many pilots who are still employed. Worry about their job with many of them actively looking at other industries as backstop and from a press release by by aerospace by space announces that production has commenced on serial number one for its to seat all electric e flyer to aircraft company is in the process of obtaining f. a. a. part twenty three certification for the flyer to for the professional flight training mission. George by ceo said the company has contracted with composites universal group or c. You g to begin. Assembly the production e larr to fuselage the first major component to be assembled quote we continue to make advances in the certification process these activities production of the first conforming e flyer to first of three planned conforming e flyer two aircraft that will be used to help complete final f. a. a. certification. And of course we talked with george by here an episode one sixty. So if you want to go back and learn more about the family of electric aeroplanes. He's designing and building. You can find that at aviation news. Talk dot com slash. One six zero from britain dash norman dot com. Britten norman to automate islander for uk's i zero carbon regional air transportation network. A british consortium has announced the formation of project heart. As part of the government's future flight challenge. The consortium will work on the project by the way which stands for hydrogen electric and automated regional transportation over five years to create the foundation for a fully sustainable and scalable commercial aviation network. That could connect the whole of the. Uk aren't aims to transform. Air transportation in the uk for cargo and passengers project will focus on transforming nine to nineteen passenger capacity aircraft and utilize up to one hundred licensed jamaica airfields around the uk partnership identified the main challenges facing regional air transport to address them during the project. Each member of heart will focus on combating a specific issue including cutting carbon emissions to zero reducing costs to operators and passengers expanding regional airports and increasing the frequency of service as the uk's only sovereign commercial aircraft manufacturer with over sixty five years of experience. Britten norman will work with blue hair systems to automate the islander so that to me is probably the most interesting aspect of this is that looks like they're going to try and automate. These aircraft known as a rugged workhorse aircraft serves in a variety of roles from passenger and cargo transport to med evac. Search and rescue it's adaptability as well as short takeoff and landing abilities as the backbone of communities around the world the project's first milestone will be to demonstrate single pilot with a autonomous co-pilot providing access to more information and assistance than human perception. Alone can provide. Projects breakthroughs will allow regional air transport to compete with traditional ground services. A zero carbon aircraft. That was able to offer higher frequency services with more day return scheduling and reduce travel. Times could become a significant rival to road and rail journeys in international news from plane pilot bag dot com tragic pilot air blame for united states air force afghanistan surveillance plane crash your ago news came out of afghanistan that i use af bombard ebay e- eleven surveillance plane had crashed in the two crew. Members aboard had perished after executing force landing a rugged field around twenty miles short of its hope for landing site forward airbase sharona taliban claimed that it had shot the aircraft but intelligence officials said. They were skeptical. The claim as it turned out the threat was somewhat far less sinister yet. Far more tragic if that's possible. The eleven is embarked global express. Large business jet that they are forced converted into a high tech surveillance plane. The plane that crashed was one of four. In the air force's fleet. The crew was an hour and forty five minutes into the flight when the planes left engine lost a fan blade the catastrophic failure resulting in the loss of all power in that engine. The crew however could not determine which engine had lost power and incorrectly. Shut down the right engine. Leading to a total loss of power on the plane it is possible to restart a turbofan engine in flight but investigators think the crew continued in their incorrect belief that the left engine was the opera ball one and never attempted to restart the right engine. Investigators also blamed the crew's failure to select an emergency landing field within gliding distance. They instead we're attempting to return to their departure field of kandahar and by the time they had chosen sharona ternate. They were too far from that airfield as well. Investigation was complicated by incomplete data from the flight data and cockpit voice. Recorders both shut down for the majority of the accident sequence from an online dot com a. aviation whether kim's coming to hawaii the long-awaited faa aviation weather cameras could soon be up and running in hawaii. In november the agency began engineering surveys required for the installation of the first ten of twenty three plan ric systems there why is mountainous terrain changing weather. Conditions and vaccine micro climates often rendered traditional weather forecast and reporting of little value that efficiencies have long been cited as factors in aviation accidents there involving inadvertent entry into imc and the resulting loss of control as well as controlled flight into terrain. The ntsb and the states hella tour industry have long called for weather camera system similar to those already installed in alaska in colorado colorado system installed in partnership with that state's department of transportation became operational over the summer using a system of fifty two cameras at thirteen locations and plans call. For the addition of another ten sites later this year alaska system which began installations in nineteen ninety nine and now uses two hundred thirty. Five cameras continues to expand in the state plans to add. One hundred and forty cameras. Nafta canada also operates a system of two hundred fifteen cameras. The value of the cameras is clear. According to the faa who survey data of alaska. Part one thirty. Five operators found that the weather camps have become critical tools in decision making and had cut unnecessary flight hours due to unreliable whether information by sixty four percent. And i've always been a huge fan of the cameras in alaska. I would very much like to see some cameras installed here in the state of california particularly in many the mountain passes which sometimes get fogged in course prevent pilots from flying through them from new york. Post dotcom man charged with posing air traffic controller giving fake flight orders. Now this first line is kind of odd it transistor radio buff was busted for posing as an air traffic controller in germany. Not sure what transistor radio buff is anymore. But i think they mean somebody was using a two way radio. The thirty two year old berlin man was taken into custody thursday night after police said he made contact with air traffic and gave fake flight orders. One of the aircraft illegally contacted was a police helicopter that was dispatched to his neighborhood. As part of a police raid to capture him. German officials said during a search of the suspect's apartment police found two radio that transmitted on the frequencies needed to make contact with aircraft. The suspect whose name has not been released his accused of making contact with both state and federal helicopters as well as passenger and transport aircraft over six month period the man had become increasingly professional with his communications but gave potentially dangerous. Actions were shortly. His crimes did not lead any incidents or accidents and finally from business insider dot com former faa employees maliciously caused a communications blackout between ten planes and air traffic control over hawaii. Federal judge sentenced joe. Lynn dacosta forty eight to two years probation and a five thousand dollar fine for quote willfully and maliciously interfering with atc. Communications in honolulu hawaii. The cost his actions cost communications blackout. While at least ten planes were airborne according to the department of justice on one occasion. The main and standby communication lines between control and approximately six. Planes were severed. The statement said. A second incident resulted in four other planes. Being impacted by the outages pilots were unable to hear directions from air traffic control for total of two minutes. According to the press release pilot who spoke at the sentencing said forty passengers on his plane were put in significant danger by the outages. The cost had been working for the faa for twenty six years before the incidents she agreed to resign from her position as an airway transportation system specialist before the sentencing is part of the plea agreement as a result to cost a luster retirement benefits estimated to have been worth more than half a million dollars. Well that's the news for this week coming up next my weekly updates and then we'll talk with tom. Turner about where. You're most likely stall in the traffic pattern. All right here on the aviation newstalk talk. Podcast other destination. Hey max. Joey mccormick here with a fun flying destination. I recommend for anyone with the opportunity to find a gas airport and lakeview arkansas. Three mike zero eight north. Arkansas is three thousand two hundred foot grass strip right next to the white river. The approach or departure is one way in and one way out so. Make sure that you plan your flight. Well they offer world class fly-fishing lodging. And of course the opportunity to grab the proverbial fifty dollar hamburger. They also have fuel available on the field. Thanks for all that you do really enjoy your podcasts. And i've added keeping up to date on them as part of my partial currency checklists. Joey thanks so much for sharing with us and i had an interesting suggestion from a listener. A couple of days ago. Who said that in the future. I might want to consider a short segment to review one f. a. r. One federal aviation regulation. Each show is it was that that might be more widely applicable to everyone then the fund flying destinations. Where you might only be interested in it if you're within a few hundred miles of the location so look for your feedback on that. We've got one more fun flying destination in our q. If you wanna send more you can record it an email it to me at aviation newstalk g mail dot com. And here's an interesting tie into aviation regulations. I found a study that talks about fatal accidents. In how many of them are associated with a violation of the far's. I got interested in this as i was watching an online presentation last month which mentioned a relationship between f. a. r. violations and fatal accidents. So he did some searching online and found a study that was done in two thousand five by the. Faa's civil aerospace medical institute. And of course. I'll put a link to it in the show notes. The study is called human error and generally bution accidents a comprehensive fine grain analysis using each fax now h. fact stands for human factors analysis and classification system and the abstract for the study reads in part the human factors analysis and classification system h. Facts is theoretical based tool for investigating analyzing human error associated with accidents and incidents previous research performed at both the university of illinois and the civil aerospace medical institute has successfully shown that h facts can be reliable used to analyze the underlying human causes about commercial nj accidents these analyses of helped identify general trends in the types of human factors issues in aircrew that have contributed to civil aviation accidents. The next step was to identify. The exact nature of the human errors identified so moving onto the study itself. It says quote in general the unsafe act of operators. In this case of aviation the aircrew can be loosely classified as either errors or violations. Ariz- represented mental or physical activities of individuals that failed to achieve their intended outcome. Not surprising given the fact that human beings by their very nature make errors these unsafe acts dominate most accident. Databases relations on the other. Hand are much less common in refer to the willful disregard for the rules and regulations that govern the safety of flight and moving down into the study question three which they posed was previous research and other aviation venues. Eeg military aviation shown. That violation of the rules tend to be associated with a larger proportion of fatal. Accidents will the same pattern exist in a accidents or will other errors readily distinguished fatal from non-fatal accidents. And they have a diagram here in which they show that they analyze a total of three thousand two hundred fifty six fatal accidents. Eleven thousand one hundred ninety non-fatal accidents that were each associated with some type of unsafe. Act they say. The overall analysis of g accidents reveals a picture of human error with g. That was not possible before the development of h facts specifically the data indicated that skill based errors were associated with the largest proportion of a accidents. They say that seventy nine point. Two percent of the total accidents had skill based errors all by decision errors which were twenty nine point seven percent violations of the far's which is thirteen point seven percent and perceptual errors. Five point seven percent and they know that many of the accidents were associated with multiple h facts causal categories so. The numbers do not add up to a hundred percent. They then took a look at the fatal accidents and each of the different factors involved out. Several of them were very very close as they said. For example skill based errors eighty point six percent of the accident stunts. Very close to the seventy nine point two for all accidents. They said that decision errors. Twenty nine point five percent also very close but then they got to willful violation of the rules and thirty point. Five percent of fatal accidents involve some violation of the rules. Compared to all accidents were only thirteen. Point seven percent involved violation of the rules. The five most frequent violations for fatal and nonfatal accidents were the afar flight into imc procedures and directives followed operating aircraft with known deficiencies hazardous maneuvers and flight into known adverse weather which reminded me of the faa's five hazardous attitudes which we talked about back in episode one fifty four. The one i'm thinking of his anti authority which they describe as don't tell me. The faa writes that this attitude is founded people who did not like anyone telling them what to do in a sense they are saying. No one can tell me what to do. They may be resentful of having someone tell them what to do. Or may regard rules regulations and procedures as silly or unnecessary however it is always your prerogative to question authority if you feel. It's an air. The antidote to anti authority. The faa says is follow the rules. They're usually right to which i might add. Following the rules may also save your life so keep that in mind. I always work incredibly hard to follow all the far's because i've never run across one that didn't make sense. Frankly so for you to do the same. And now here's our story about a woman who was looking for an airline pilot who helped guide her into a career in aviation. You may recall that last week we had any sapiro on. I talking about her engine out in a piper. Malibu wilson had a longer version of that which was available to patrons at the twenty dollar up level. And there's a little portion of that extra audio that i'd like to share with you. She talks about an airline pilot. Who really made a big impact on her life and got her to follow her passion for asian and i was on a american eagle flight was prior to nine eleven so i was kinda like hanging out around the cockpit and i just had the right captain. He walked over. You said hey. Sit down so i did. He's like asking anything you want. And so i started asking all these questions about the kaufman super interested in aviation you should. You should be a pilot like well. I don't know i'm a girl. And so he says so jaw quotas. They're gonna to give you my dad. I'm really sure you said well. More room in the cockpit. Like i wear contacts any so glasses to see. Be better than an old man making excuses. Sarah remember laughing. I was like well. It's expensive and he said don't let money stop you from your dreams. So it's kind of a moment in time like it really sat with me. And i came back and i talked to my dad. He's supportive and i told him the whole story like that. I think i really wanna try to live. And he had a friend that had just taken. He finished his license. You taking lessons. And hey i'll call my friend and maybe i can get you set up with you know flights. I did a discovery flight. And i was in love the first time the guy said she's a natural. You should let her pursue this and my dad said okay. If you get a job. I'll pay half you happen. I kept going. And i got a job and addison airport. I ran a flight school and are able to pay for it that way and kept going and next thing you know flying jets and all kinds of airplanes and within a drain. Well that's remarkable so at age. Nineteen you had all kinds of barriers in your mind as to why wouldn't be possible. And yet this airline. Captain matt every objection and basically said yes. You can live your dream. It was it was a slap in the face. Like hey that think about it seriously. Anybody can do this. Well sounds like like him that moment. For regional right. Yeah no. that's it sounds like Just a a major turning point in your life. What if you could find this captain again. What would you say to my. Gosh thank you get kind of like teared up. I really wish. I can find him because he changed the trajectory of my life. Maybe we can find them. What year was that it. I believe it was ninety three the summer of ninety three. Which airport were you at the atl to dallas. Okay this happened in seattle or dallas It was on the way back. So we We it landed out jotted all right super. Well maybe we can find that captain. I'm sure he has changed a lot of people's lives but definitely put that bug in my ear. I going well. And i hope that there are lots of airline captains who might say. Oh yeah that could have been me. Because that's the kind of thing that i that i do. Yeah exactly you hope so for sure because they should also realize it gets out there because they showed realize aviation's changed a little bit where i don't know if it back when we were younger and you see in american or any type of pilot right when you were flying around commercially and like oh my gosh or some special always like a hero now so normal that i hope they realize bill that it's not. It's so incredible. Every time i find when i realized when where i am when i'm doing and how special it is. And no one else is experiencing xactly what i'm experiencing in that moment. So was really changed all right. Let's get to work now. If you think you have any clue as to who that airline captain might have been. Please get in touch with me here at aviation news talk had g mailed that common will connect you with a niece and here are a couple of messages that came in about last week. Show episode one. Seventy five is comes from patriot supporter. Marc stein. he's i would absolutely love more interviews with pilots who dealt with emergencies by the first of the podcast devoted to new four flight. Features was terrific. I had four up on my ipad and followed a long learning a lot. Even so i always feel that i'm just scratching the surface with four flight. What a great pilot tool. Thanks again for all the fantastic work you do. And here's a message from patriot supporter lance fletcher. Who's at the twenty dollar above level. So he's able to see our bonus videos he says max loved the video with four five guys. I had my screen open working through their demonstration. Create see the constant prudence. They are making an as you say the increase in margin. Of course there. I was talking about how you want to build an extra margin in every aspect of your flying to increase your safety. He says keep up the great work with podcast lance. Well thank you mark and lance. I greatly appreciate your feedback. And i appreciate everyone who supports the show in any way if you like. Sport is financially couple. Easy ways to do that. You can just go out to aviation news talk dot com slash awesome and sign up via patriot. Use a credit card and you can donate each month. We have all kinds of goodies available for example at the twenty dollars month level. People get see the bonus videos that i post and you can also make either a one time donation or monthly donation via pay pal at aviation news talk dot com slash pay pal. And you don't even need a paypal account. All you need is a credit card. We've got a couple new mega supporters. These are the folks who donate fifty dollars a month or more. One is a michael ron r. a. h. and i hope i said that correctly he runs a small wealth management firm and woodland texas which you can find it the sum s you am planning dot com. And he says he's thinking of buying a cirrus and also todd kessel. he's a longtime supporter. Who just edited his pledge up to fifty dollars a he lives in arizona and flies in sr twenty two turbo g five and we have a number of other new patrons who joins us this past week they include don dirksen emmanuel para secaucus edited up to twenty dollars a month patricia. Burs also twenty dollars a month. Jj cups michael lemke martin goodman who ended his pledge up to twenty dollars a month and mike connell at twenty dollars a month. Well have a new monthly pay pal supporter. Which has rick crockett at twenty dollars a month. Thank you all so much for supporting the show and once a month i read the list of all of our mega supporters who donate more than fifty dollars a month and i was thinking i might end up in the future splitting this out to just one quarter of the list. Each afford different weeks. Let me know if you did prefer that. I do that but for now. Here's the list. Brian deer who lives here. Northern california flies a turbo two. Oh six tyson. Weiss co founder and ceo of four flight bruce dickerson financial planner living in georgia. Who flies a k. Thirty five. bonanza. Victor vogel dr liz in central. Pa and flies a cirrus. Tim delaney wealth manager and santa rosa flies in sr. Twenty two out of the santa rosa airport. Stephen e lop flies turbo one. Eighty two and a citation. Cj three plus. He's now the ceo of api jet. Mike williams is the president of keo mac and tcp composites which make composite spinners and bulkheads for aircraft set the lake. He is a dp. We had him on the show. Recently he specializes in teaching the multi engine rating and his beach travel airs. You can find out more about him at vs. l. dot arrow. Rick miller instructs in the cincinnati area. Both out of the lincoln flight training center and with private owners of cessna's pipers be traffic scotus. He'd love to teach fulltime but he still has a day job just in winner brokers real estate on lake yoi in south carolina flies. Sr twenty two carlin and rossi of maine coon cat aviation have a pair of cessna t to forty aircraft and twenty twenty one piper and three fifty on order johnny mcdaid. He's a singer songwriter. Musician and record producer. Jim goldust flies out of the republic airport on long island in new york. I know he's got a check ride coming up. He just told me about that he is working on. Cf double lion mea. I that is currently giving ground instruction at pilot proficiency international. You can find him on his facebook page at ground point nine and he gives individual instruction in person or online. Charlie mason flies out of austin texas as working on his instrument rating vincent selimi. He's the vice mayor for the city of panel here in california and the owner of selimi construction management in san francisco. Jim hop is a. Cf is teaches at advantage aviation palo alto airport california. Joseph sheehan flew in the navy for eight years now has a few hundred hours on his new vision. Jet josie freeman working on his instrument rating dylan caldwell. He's an ame in florida at the naples municipal airport. So if you need a medical a basic med second or third class white physical you contact them at aviators clinic. Dot com and william birch donates the. Show the memory of his son. Lieutenant j g wallace birch who was a naval aviator done hey cala he's professional instrument courses. They conduct ten-day instrument courses. Iof are finish up. And iof are refresher courses at. I fly i f r dot com steven busch. He's the owner of lonestar helicopters in lago vista texas. If you wanna get your helicopter rating check them out at lonestar. Heli that calm don domini. He's a professional pilot. Who runs an airline flight department. He's also see if i and flies. Bonanza rick mattis. He's an hour of point. Wise which makes cfd computational fluid dynamic software used by aerospace companies. You can find them at point. Wise dot com. John costa lives in flint michigan and rents planes of the greater flint pilots association. He also owns a turkey six. That's been updated with a garment g. Three x and gt and six fifty. The badge here. Out of the san francisco bay area who've liza new serious are twenty two mark holes. Bach lives in south western. Pa he's time aviation enthusiast. Who wants to get his private when he retires. At a few years he runs baden. Still dot com which manufacturers industrial fasteners. Tim crawford he flies. Ada forty out crosswinds aviation at the county airport north of detroit. He runs a company called brain spring. That helps children with dyslexia greg van. He's a senior ame at the mayo clinic in rochester. We've mentioned his podcast host. Which is the male clinic. Clear approach which discusses medical issues for pilots. James conner is thinking about buying us are twenty two for business. Travel is couple. Make security screens for protecting your home. You can find out more at boss. Security screens dot com a rail. English is c. And see of double. I at the westchester flying club in westchester county airport. He and a friend of created website to make free flight planning modern and fast. The sites called flyway. And you can check it out at flyway dot. Cc ed kelly flies a saratoga out of mount pleasant south carolina. He says his two year old son bennett is the best co-pilot he could have. Jeff brush and michael. Ron and todd kessel who we both just talked about. Thanks so much who everyone who donates the show in whenever we you donate coming up next. Tom turner talking about where. You're likely to stall in the traffic pattern. All right here on the aviation is talked by guest in now. Let me tell you a little bit about tom turner. Tom spent six years in the air force and was a minute man. Missile comeback or commander later. He earned a master's degree in aviation safety. He since held at number flying jobs including a five year period when he was a lead instructor at flight. Safety international responsible for all factory approved training. For the beach bonanza. In two thousand three became the manager of technical services. For the american bonanza society. And he's currently the executive director of american bonanza societies air safety foundation he holds an atp certificate and was named the two thousand ten national f. a. a. safety team representative of the year and was inducted into the flight instructor hall of fame in two thousand fifteen in. Here's our conversation with tom. Turner and i should note that patrons supporters at the twenty dollar up level can actually see a video version of this including the slides. The tom showed as we were talking. Well tom welcome back aviation newstalk. It's great to have you here again. Thanks for asking max. It is great to be back. So i called you up because i had seen a recent edition of your flying lessons newsletter. In it you had. What i thought was a really interesting topic. Talking about where the traffic patterns stalls actually occur versus where people think they occur. But first let's talk about flying lessons newsletter. I have been subscribing to that for many many years. Tell people what that is. How long you've been doing it and what it's all about art well. Flying lessons weekly is a blog that i've done actually pretty much since nineteen ninety eight in one form or another so have been doing it for a while when i do with flying lessons. Weekly is to look at an accident or incident report. That is making the rounds of internet chatter over the last Week or so and see what positive lessons we can derive from what we know about that. So far i don't attempt to explain what happened in that specific example because the investigators haven't done their work yet at that point but Almost always something will come to mind that because this may be a possibility as the sort of thing that we need to think about. Every time we fly it's free. It comes out usually late wednesday evening central time at my personal website which is mastery hyphen hyphen training dot com mastery flight training dot com. And you can subscribe. There will come out to your free. That super and i'll put a lincoln the show notes. That people can there easily to subscribe to the newsletter. Let's talk about stalls in the traffic pattern. I'm asking listeners right now. Think about where you think. You are most likely to encounter a stall in the traffic pattern and then tom go and tell us what the common myth is and then talk more about Where stalls actually do occur traffic pattern. Okay max well. Of course my employment is with america. Dance societies safety foundation. And i do quite a bit of accident Tracking for the beechcraft airplanes as part of that in addition to what i do outside of that in my master flight training word. And it's been going on now about two thousand five. I did a bit of a deep dive into. Ntsb records to see where beechcraft bonanza and debonair airplanes stall when an ntsb report indicates an internet aerodynamic stall where in the traffic patterns that occur and i came up with some data that seem quite unusual back when we used to do live events a lot i would frequently start a program asking people that very question. You just did. Where in the traffic pattern to you. Feel like you are most likely to experience a stall and virtually everyone will say well In the in the base to final turn or sometimes in the turn down wind to baseline but usually the base to final turn. And i found in my investigation back in two thousand five that. At least in the bonanza and debonair world. That really isn't borne out by the data at all out a couple of years ago as air safety institute published this Report in two thousand seventeen stolen spin accidents keep the wings flying and this looks at the stall spin accident record across the general aviation fleet and what i found was that what aol p. a. Found in its research exactly mirrors. What i found in mind specific Bonanzas debonair 's so it validates the Research that i've done it reinforces the perhaps skewed feeling that we have picture we have. What stall accidents are like. And in my opinion it gives us some ideas of how to address stall training in the future to avoid the most common sorts of accidents. One of the things that really struck me about that was just the the number of stall accidents in that study. They said from two thousand to two thousand fourteen. There were two thousand fifteen stall accidents. That's a huge number. When you divide that out that comes two hundred and forty three stall accidents per year. So i think stalls are probably a lot more common than than most pilots realize. They really are in. That is an incredible number and another thing that the alpa study bore out. Was that only about half of those happen in the traffic pattern. A lot of the stall related accidents occur when people are doing their buzzing low altitude flight. Low altitude maneuvering in multi. Engine airplanes multi engine training. We have a lot of single engine so comparatively large number of single engine stalls but it really does reinforce a y Loss of control in flight in general aviation airplanes has been on the ntsb's most wanted list off and on for several years. They are really common. So looking at the data where accidents actually occur again. According to ao pa's as report of ntsb reports The down wind base base to final turn stalls only account for three point eight percent only about four percent of all of the stalls in the traffic pattern. Happen at those points in the pattern where we think they're most likely to occur. And this is real world data from ntsb reports now when a stall occurs in the base to final. Turn or the down wind debase turn. They have a high level of legality. You don't have much room to recover from those altitudes and so if you do stall there unfortunately you're not likely to survive it about sixty. Six percent of all of the down wind base turn stalls resulted in death and a whopping eighty percent of the based final turn stalls Were fatal so What we're thinking here. They really are low frequency but a high impact events. The reality is. You're not very likely to stall in that based to final. Turn historically if you do. It's not going to turn out well. So i looked at other places in the traffic pattern next. I looked on final approach itself after wings level on final approach. We have half again as many stalls about six percent of all of the stalls happened. At that point they tend to be fairly highly thallady events also about forty percents of the forty percent of those releasable and it may be that they're more frequently survival because you're closer to the ground assets. You don't have the time to accelerate after the stall occurs but you actually see more turns more stalls wings level on final approach than you see in that turn onto final approach a couple other places in the traffic pattern on the downwind leg and wings level on the base leg as you would expect rarely is a stall scenario. Only about zero point. Eight percent of all the stalls happen on these wing level portions of the pattern and about half of those fatal. You have a better chance especially on the downwind leg of recovering if the plane does stall there. And then lastly a kind of surprisingly i think in the landing flare is where we start to see. A lot of. The acts of the stall. Accidents occur twenty one point two percent about one fifth of all of the reported stalls in the traffic pattern happened during the landing flare. Now only about eight percent of those are a fatal. Now why is that you pretty close to the ground at that point and if the plane does stall a little higher than you plan for it to on final approach you probably will still survive it. We don't even usually think about these. As stall accidents. Most of us would consider this to be a landing but From the ntsb data about one fifth of them happened during the landing flare. And of course we never see hard landings right. Oh of course not now. The objective of course is to is to try to stall three or four inches above the pavement. And the problem happens if you try to do it at six or eight feet up. That's that's where those happened. Yeah what we've usually teach a good landing would be a you stall but you're right it would be very close at anytime. Certainly when i'm with a client if they're a five six feet above the ground in. We're getting slow. It's like whoa. You know that we need to you know that we need to take action. That's right you know. I tell my students when i'm flying with on the at certain portions of the flight. You will see my hands to go to go to what i call the defensive position and that that would be one place there. Yes yes that's where we say. I have the controls the controls right okay so surprisingly than if you look at everything on the arrival end of the traffic pattern everything from down wind through the turn onto base leg the base itself the turned to final final approach and the flare. This only accounts for about thirty one. Thirty two percent thirty one point nine actually percent of all of the reported stall accidents significantly these arrival and accidents. This these are really power off stall scenarios. And it's still only a little less than a third of all of those that occur. So here's where the really interesting data begins where the stalls happen more frequently Just under eighteen percent of them happen at the initial part of go around or a balked landing On final approach If you need to initiate a go around and you apply power in many airplanes This will also result in a a fairly rapid pitched up as you apply power. Especially if you're a little surprised by the need to go around and a little hasty with the power application and so actually a power on stall here at the beginning of a go around happens more frequently than any other part of the arrival part of the traffic pattern except for in the flare itself about quarter of these accidents are fatal but because so many more of them are occurring. We see this reported more frequently as a fatal accident. Cause and the real surprise at least for me. When i looked at these data both when i computed the myself for bonanza debonair reinforced by the. Alpa report is that fifty percent of all of the reported stalls in the traffic pattern happen on initial climb on the upwind leg. This is if you're going to stall in your airplane d on takeoff or in a goal around most likely as a matter of fact those two combined for almost seventy percent of all of the reported stalls though. That's that's really really impressed me quite a bit kind of doing a quick. Wrap up of this where we think we stall in the base to final turn and in the Down wind base turn is only a combined. Ten percent of all of the stall reported accidents according to a study whereas eighty nine point. Three percent. Ninety percent of all of the stalls happen somewhere over the pavement or on the departure end of the runway. Either during the flare or especially the initial takeoff and the goal around one distinction especially for the takeoff. Go around stalls is that those are power on stalls and in my opinion anyhow my impression is that pilots and flight instructors or more confident and comfortable performing power stalls there generally a very benign maneuver and we do them a lot in training. We'll we're comfortable going out and practicing them ourselves because they're usually a pretty gentle vet when we go practice power on stalls however There's there's a lot of trepidation of both among pilots and flight. Instructors a power on stall is often a very dynamic sort of stall event and requires a fairly substantial recovery technique and it's also something of an artificial of vet the way that we teach and evaluate them. The way that most stall training has done is with the airplane in a clean configuration with the flab. Soppe if it's a retractable gear plane with gear up and frequently We do it with less than full power available. Usually maybe two thirds power something and even in that case we have to bring the well well above the horizon in order to create this power on stall scenario and so as we're going through this As a student or as a pilot practicing this. I'm thinking let's get this over with pull popo finally gave up. And you you do your recovery. And one of the things that reinforces is that the nose has to be radically above the horizon for the airplane to perform a power on stall. And secondly you have to work really really hard to make it happen in the first place so you can get complacent about them and think. There's no way i would actually get into that situation. What the record. I think is telling us though. Is that the scenarios where power on stalls really occur happen at obviously low altitude and that's a factor but Often happened when there is maybe some flap extended and the landing gear is extended in a retractable gear. Airplane and so the rate of deceleration is going to be more rapid and even with full power Starting from what is a normal climb speed and climb attitude. It only takes a little additional pitch upward beyond that for the The airplane for the winged seats critical angle of attack and the stall actually occurs at a much lower pitch attitude. Mike contention training this a lot with folks. And i point this out when a train them is that If you are to get into one of these most common stall scenarios you're seeing the indications perhaps for the first time ever because we don't practice stalls in dirty configuration power installs dirty configuration. We don't practice them in at the beginning of a gora maneuver one. The trim may be fairly knows high on the airplane really wants to pitch up on recovery. So the way that we train and evaluate stalls isn't fully preparing us for these real world scenarios. Where the stall occurs and so my take away from all of these data is that i think were doing a good job of training pilots to recognize recover from especially avoid stalls on the arrival. End the traffic pattern That's in large part. I think because everybody's thanks. This is where you're most likely to stall so we we pay attention to that. We watch for the indications practice it more frequently. The reality is though that we tend to stall on the high powered departure and and we don't practice that as much so we don't need to practice the arrival star. Pope's stalls the power off stalls any less frequently. We need to focus more on training the power on stalls in real world scenarios as. Well i think a really key thing on the departure is to train pilots to look at the pitch attitude almost immediately after they take off and i find some pilots don't instinctively do this. They don't consider it one of the first things that they have to do. Certainly one of the first things. I look at shortly. After rotation is where is the nose relative to the horizon where it's going to be is going to differ depending upon the aircraft. If i were just to take a cessna one seventy two in general. The top of the glare shield is gonna or actually you know that the knows that the ford part of the callan is going to be close to the the horizon where the sky meets the the ground now might be slightly different In your airplane may be slightly above slightly below the horizon but that's a fairly commonplace for most aircraft to end up when they're in the proper climate. I think it also helps to know if you're looking at your instruments. Just how many degrees of you know pitch up in. But that's not your primary indication if you're via far. Your primary indication is looking out the window in visually confirming that pitch attitude and making sure. It's where it should be in of. It's not then you really need to jump on that quickly to adjusted right. I talk a lot about pitch attitude in in terms of seven degrees up. Ten degrees up in in training and writing about these sorts of things but What i really mean is learn. What the visual sight picture is for a ten degree of pitch attitude which is is common. And it may be the bonanza and serious class of aeroplanes and initial takeoff. If you're aiming for v wide but one of the things she said max's aunt we tend to think in terms of of pitching or aiming for an indicated airspeed initially on takeoff. And that's true. Were really for an angle of attack airspeed as surrogate for that but Airspeed is an outcome. It's it's not something we set. It's something that occurs because of other things we've done and it's not an instantaneous reaction so if you aim for the pitch attitude and assuming that you're aircrafts power and configuration or correct it will get to the air Airspeed the equates to that attitude so it really is a matter of learning what it's supposed to look like for takeoff and making certain that you get that same picture. Every time i agree makes total sense. Set the pitch attitude. Then wait and see what the speed settles out at and then make variations from that. I think another area where people can get in trouble is going to be on the go around. And i think the key issue is that if you are configured for landing. The airplane is trim forgiven airspeed if you suddenly give it full power and of course right rudder. The nose is going to pitch up dramatically to try and maintain that airspeed and often that pichit assumes is going to be higher than normal the climate pitch attitudes. I think people anytime. They're coming in for a landing they have to be kind of thinking ahead of time might be go around and if it is. I know that three things are going to go forward. The right side of my body is going to go forward. The throttle the right rudder pedal but also my left hand is gonna have to push forward on the yoke. Because if i don't i'm most likely going to be pitched up much higher than the normal pitch attitude when you climb out exactly and depending on the type of a lot of training aircraft and this may be a you know a law premacy something that's reinforced. When we first learned to fly that may not be exactly applicable to type of plane flying later on a lot of training airplanes. If you're on final approach with your final slaps said and coming down normally and trim off the pressures. The elevator trim will be somewhere very close to the normal takeoff is but when you get into more powerful planes or aircraft that have a a wider center of gravity envelope available to them or maybe very nose heavy aircraft you know like the bonanzas. I fly the services that you flights and to be knows. Heaviest have turbo. you'll find that Trimming on final approach results in a pitch trim setting that is substantially more nose up and take off so when you apply power it will as you said attempt to seek the airspeed for which it's trimmed but it doesn't know exactly what attitude it's going to take to do that. It's just knows i hate. I'm i'm much slower than i'm are much faster than i'm trimmed for. So therefore i need to pull the nose way up in. It'll overshoot it if you let it. And so that's what we need to do. Is allow the nose to come up to the correct pitch attitude and then gives it give it forward pressure on the controls. That's necessary to keep pitching beyond that while we start to wrap up here. What do you think is that one thing that pilots can do to go out there and make sure they're prepared for these kinds of situation. Well first off anticipate the need for a gore around every time you come into land. Twenty percent almost twenty percent of the stalls happened during the go around so A lot of that is probably the element of surprise so practice. Go around so you know what happens with your foot and your hand and your other hand go around to make it work properly but but every time you come down final approach be critically evaluating your approach. If you need to make a go around that should just be another normal maneuver. The that you fly. The other would be is a with an instructor who is familiar with the characteristics of your particular airplane. Go out there and practice some at least some incipient stalls with full power but with full flaps. And if it's a retractable bureau plane with the year down and least explore what. The aircraft looks and feels like In a goal around from that position and in an incipient stall but in some airplanes they can be the stock can be very dramatic in that configuration. But if you recover the first indication of a stall the stall warning horn or any buffet or something like that you get the idea of what you need to do to avoid that stall on a go around so practice practice the high power and of the stall envelope as well as continuing to practice the low power yes and i would say train train train. You could certainly do some of these things yourself practice. But also there's a lot of benefit going out with a flight instructor. Well tom thank you so much for everything you do for aviation safety. Thanks so much for the flying lessons newsletter and look forward to seeing again soon. Thanks max i always learn. Every time i listened to your program as well so thanks for having me back on well. Tom is just such a great asset to generally vacation. And it's great to have him back on the show again. i should mention. He also runs mastery flight training through which he provides individual flight. Training for beech. Bonanza and baron owners. So you may want to contact him. If you fly one of these aircraft. I'll include a link to his website as well as of course to where you can sign up for his newsletter coming up next. We've got some listener feedback right here on the aviation news. Talk podcast some listener feedback. This comes from matthew from oklahoma. He said just listened to your podcast episode. One seventy on mastering the go around. It seems to me that a lot of accidents are caused by the unexpected surge of power from the full power setting that. We're all trying to put in win going around her even taking off. I fly cessna one eighty two and i found that i really never need full power to take off her. Go around or recover from a rejected. Landing is slowly put in the power you need to start climbing and all seems to work out without having to fight the nose upward turning tendencies. What do you think of the non non-full power takeoffs and go arounds. well matthew. I think i would split that up into two parts. You talked about putting the power in slowly and i would wholeheartedly endorse that. I sometimes see people doing go around. Who will absolutely slam the power in. And frankly mechanical objects. Don't like to be slammed. So i liked. Put the power in canada over a thousand one thousand two. It'll maybe over two seconds. But i would still use full power both for takeoff and for going around. I think most of the procedures. You're gonna read for piston aircraft to useful power for both take off and go around. So that's what i would do. I would follow the procedures. And here's the email from mark in illinois. He said just got around listening to this episode. Good one there's another option when it comes to remembering to close your eye far flight plan. I don't know anyone who doesn't carry a smartphone with him at all times. It couldn't be easier to set a reminder using either siri for iphone users or hey go for android users he says you could say. Hey siri or google remind me to close my flight planet. And then one. Our pastor scheduled arrival time by the way. I would pick probably a half hour. He says your phone will chirp at the time you set and if you're behind schedule and still airborne the notification will persist until you manually. Turn it off. That means every time you look at your phone. You'll see the reminded closure flight plan until you turn the notification off and the key thing i would mention. Is that flight services trained to start looking for you a half hour after your arrival time. So that's why. I probably wouldn't use a one hour for my notification but great idea l. Certainly try that in the future. Here's the mail from cliff in ohio. He says max. I've listened to all one hundred and seventy one episodes. And i've been on a three point five mile walk for every single one so by my rough calculations that means while listening to your podcasts. I've covered six hundred miles and around two hundred hours. Burn at least one hundred thousand calories per my fitbit data. not only are you. A master defy but you are a fitness guru. A cliff i wrote back to. I said that's incredible. Glad to hear you and other listeners are getting so fit coincidentally just about to go out on a long walk too often. Use those walks to qa draft versions of new show before. I released them at a time. I hear something. I need to fix. I do a screen shot. So you know exactly the time at which i need to make fix often and obliterating the show three to four times before release it could by then i don't wanna hear it again but it helps a lot in the early days i had some episodes go out with problems and it was always a rush to fix them as quickly as i could. And here's a message from patriots. Porous got dorion. He says max glad to finally be able to support you and your show but a listener for over a year now and you have been one of my only connections to g. I'm an american airlines pilot. That was furloughed back in october and was recalled when the new psp was signed into law. And we're able to have my job back and since it sounds like you were back did not flying due to covid. I thought that i better start. Supporting fellow. pilot will thanks so much for that in your right i have not returned to flying it. I have also been using my part in using that share button with a couple of friends as well as my father. The episode i shared with my father was episode ninety because my father has the exact mooney that the pilot episode crashed due to see. Oh poisoning the step. Aside compelled me into buying a nice co detector for my father in his mooney. Thank you for that. And i think everyone who sends me feedback. I'm sorry i don't get a chance to read all of it. But i certainly take a look at it and try to reply most of it. Some of mix it here on the show. Well that's it for this week so until next time fly safely have funding. Keep the blue side up.

faa Britten norman ea civil aerospace medical instit american bonanza society ntsb uk alaska hawaii tom Webbie jack pelton ea young eagles ron kindly professional flight training m
169 Fuel Gauge Accuracy, IFR Visual Approaches, & Listener Close Calls + GA News

Aviation News Talk podcast

1:09:52 hr | 8 months ago

169 Fuel Gauge Accuracy, IFR Visual Approaches, & Listener Close Calls + GA News

"Hello and welcome to aviation news. Talk a weekly show with relevant news and flying tips for pilots student pilots. To help keep you safe. I'm extra scott for a main topic today. We'll be talking about the rules regarding fuel gauge accuracy. Plus we've got an interesting wrinkle. When flying a missed approach following an eye afar visual approach plus listener stories from you about close calls you've had while flying less we can episode one sixty eight in our safety moment with rob mark. We talked about how to avoid deadly weather related accidents. So if you didn't hear that episode you may want to check it out and if the aviation news talk podcast is nudity you in whatever app you're using to listen to us now. Just click on that subscribe button so that new episodes will download for free each week. I think you'll enjoy today's discussion about fuel gauges and you won't want to miss future shows this week in. The news. Eclipse aviation has been sold while in bankruptcy new aircraft sales. This year are mostly down. Though pistons. Sales are up in a uav pilot. Maybe going to jail all this and more and the news starts now from law. Three sixty dot com one aviation's five million dollar chapter. Eleven sale is okayed. The company name one aviation might not be familiar to you. So let me give you a brief history. You probably recall that eclipse aviation founded back in nineteen ninety eight burn through over a billion dollars to produce the eclipse five hundred very light jet according to a recent article quote eclipsed claim to have as many as twenty five hundred orders and plan to produce a thousand airplanes a year. Some fourteen hundred ordered by day jet abutting on demand. Air taxi idea that also went belly up now. Fewer than three hundred eclipse aircraft were ever built before the company entered bankruptcy. Total company liabilities estimated at over one billion dollars in two thousand nine. After a lengthy chapter seven process company was sold for twenty million dollars in cash and twenty million dollars a new promissory notes. Could by the way while researching this. I learned that the federal bankruptcy court judge who approved that sale was mary. Walrath who grew up down the street from in my hometown of wells borough pennsylvania going forward in two thousand fifteen. The new eclipse aerospace merged with kestrel aircraft form. One aviation you may recall that kestrel was founded by alan clapp. Meyer the former. Ceo and co founder of serious to build the kestrel k three fifty turboprop which never made it to market one aviation has struggled financially and last week on november twentieth according to an article in law three sixty dot com delaware judge on friday gave his not to the roughly five million dollars sale of one aviation's assets in a difficult chapter eleven case it included prior failed attempts to sail despite opposition from other potential buyers one aviation corporation filed for chapter eleven with roughly a hundred ninety eight million dollars in debt in october two thousand eighteen initially proposing a restructuring and debt for equity swap during friday's hearing the judge also gave us not to a limited sale of certain of one aviation's assets for two hundred and twenty five thousand dollars to nautical hero. Now it's unclear which assets those were though it's possibly the kestrel k three fifty which could have been sold off. Separately nautical hero group appears to be a new company that was just formed in august so in summary eclipse would spend over. A billion dollars was for sold for forty million dollars and has now been sold again for five million dollars which goes to show you that sometimes old aviation companies never die. They're just sold again and again in unfortunately for pennies on the dollar from skies mag dot com gamma publishes q. Three two thousand twenty aircraft shipments and billing report the general aviation manufacturers association gamma released its report of g. Aircraft shipments and billings through the third quarter of two thousand twenty piston airplane deliveries increased slightly turboprop. Business jet and helicopter delivers declined through the first nine months of twenty twenty as compared to two thousand nineteen camera. President and ceo p said this latest shipment report gives insight into how the industry is faring after the onset of the covid nineteen pandemic while we are still trailing in comparison to last year's figures due to a virus impacted second quarter it is encouraging the deliveries in certain segments have rebounded. It's also worth noting that this is the first quarter in history where we are reporting certified electric aircraft deliveries much. Pretty big change. Airplane shipments through the first nine months of twenty twenty when compared to the same period in two thousand nineteen saw piston deliveries increase. One point four percent with eight hundred and eighty nine units turboprop deliveries declined twenty seven percent with two hundred fifty four units and business. Jet deliveries declined. Twenty six percent with three hundred. Seventy eight units the value of aircraft delivered through the third quarter of twenty twenty one eleven point nine billion decline of approximately twenty percent from the pastoral newsletter charging the pip stroll alpha electro with sunshine. Beam conducted the world's first flying on sunshine flight and a pastoral production electric aircraft powered completely by beams. Ev arc solar powered charging unit. Living off grid sustainably generated locally stored energy. The world's i made flight took place it really municipal airport in fresno county california with local officials present with pilot. Joseph old ham at the controls beam global. Ceo desmond wheatley said. The electrification of transportation is taking to the skies powered by beam global with forty percent of greenhouse gas emissions coming from transportation in california. It's imperative to push the envelope in every form of mobility whether it has to four or eighteen wheels a propeller or for reuters beams developing sustainable solutions deliver clean mobility to all the patented. Ev or twenty twenty is the only hundred percent renewable transportable off grade. Ev charging option on the market. And i took a look at this device and it's really fascinating. It looks like they essentially have a self contained device that they can load up on the back of the truck. Drop off in a space. That's the size of a normal parking space. And the self contained unit has solar cells on the top batteries somewhere in the unit and it can be used to generally charge cars but in this case they've deployed at an airport to charge airplanes. So it's pretty slick design. You can find out more at beam for all dot com from dot org new. Alpa weather available online and via the app. The new alpa weather powered by sirius. Xm aviation provides national airport specific data in a mobile friendly format. That makes it perfect for checking weather on the go even via the alpa app. They say that. In april eight abuse. The i flight planner which replaced the legacy flight planner in september upgraded the app to include alpa airports and destinations directory and in november announced the consolidation of ao pa. Go into the alpa app. And now in another enhancement. Alpa members can access the new mobile friendly pa weather and i fly planner for aol. Pa via the app as long as you're connected to the internet lpga weather pulls in your home in favor of airports from your settings and the airports destination directory but you can also set your home and favorites from l. p. a. weather by clicking on the home and heart icons within the meter in details for an airport you can also get radar. Satellite windstream surface winds and surface analysis charts in the current weather layers and the current weather charts section in the forecast sections. You can choose among the surface forecast air. Mets or mets. And of course you can find out more at ao pa dot org from fly magazine at flying mag dot com current. Study on pie. Reps needs pilot input. Pegasus looks at the use and future of pilot reports in flight pegasus. Not just another aviation whether acronym it stands for the partnership to enhance vacation safety accessibility and sustainability and they have a number of projects including project. Thirty three the advanced whether information project or a whip. Wip and one of its goals is to increase the use quality and reliability of pirates. Which of course our pilot reports of weather conditions experienced throughout flight according to the pegasus website. Use of augmented reality. Dr three dimensional visualization of cloud formations particularly in convective environments should help pilots to understand and mitigate the challenges associated with flying in these environments. Flying magazine spoke with malfa tresle. California-based pilot working with the faa via purdue university at a variety of projects under the pegasus umbrella. We have a current study concerning technology and pi reputation. Behavior and i have a survey to query the public. To this effect. The data will be used to understand how to improve the ability of pilots collected process whether data and it says please consider participating in an online survey on pipes and will include the link to that survey in our show notes. Surveys say takes approximately ten minutes. The florida institute of technology purdue university appreciate as many pilots as possible participating in the survey between now and the end of november twenty twenty. So you need to jump on that quickly and by the way the name few trellis familiar to me. I met her several years ago at air venture where she hosts a radio show on. Espn radio and goes by the name of magneto. Mel from ks q dot com plane crash survivors shares. His story. This kind of an interesting story. Sixteen year old reform hogan was on flight with his father and flight instructor that took off from helena regional airport back in july thirtieth on a flight to jackson hole wyoming less than an hour later after takeoff their cessna. Three thirty seven skymaster spiraled into the mountains near ns lake the impact cracked. The plane opened stranding the three passengers. I can remember everything reeves said although both he and the flight instructor survived neither was in any condition to trek through the forest. Fortunately his father brandon hogan died shortly after the crash but cellphone insured that his son would survive looking through his father's flight bag. He found the phone with just nine percent left on. Its battery life. You manage to reach eight madison. county dispatcher. After five hours reef was in the air again in a basket. Drop by a life flight helicopter. He said they don't warn you how dizzy you can get in one of those to treat his injuries. Staff in the bozeman emergency room cut through the flight suit reef was wearing which was his father's flight suit that he wore to keep warm after the crash. The flight sued along with everything in it went into a plastic bag. That plastic bag went into a landfill. Those treating reef didn't realize that they had thrown away a piece of reefs of father and that his son had wanted to keep his father's rolex watch which he had placed in the flight suit when reef woke up from spinal surgery. He asked dr ben smith what happened to his flightsuit his wallet and his father's watch smith whose father died when he was in eighth grade. Therese room that he made calls to search through the crash site and the helicopter that brought relief to bozeman. When i heard we think it may have gone out with trash before i knew it. I was driving faster than i probably should to. The dump smith said with family members and a hospital staff member smith pluck through mounds of trash at a local dump for several hours. A safety officer helped guide their search. While another employee operated a plow about ten feet deep into a pile of garbage smith said he spotted the flight suit. He felt something heavy inside the left breast pocket. That was more gratifying than any surgery. I've ever done. Smith said a video posted to facebook by reefs. Mother and kelly hogan showed smith handling the relics to him while he laid in the hospital bed. He also held the bag containing ripped and bloody flight suit although he needed a walker to attend high school classes three days a week since coming to billings. Ref- has since transitioned to a wooden cane. He he should be physically recovered by july next year and he should also be back in the cockpit after testing out of high school reset. He'll enroll in the aviation program at rocky mountain college to continue his ambition of becoming a pilot. I wanna go back up to their hangar and visit sometime. There's a special feeling about being an hangar. It's just comfortable. I want my own airplane. Little runway in a tiny house with a hanger said in following his father's passion for flying full become a fourth generation pilot and we wish him luck in his flying career. From generally news dot com. Come to stories of recent. Ntsb reports this first one says plane crashes after student tries to pass on the taxiway the student pilot in the low wing piper. Pa twenty eight reported that after landing at the airport in miami florida. She exited the runway onto a taxiway which was occupied by a high wing airplane. That had landed before her. She attempted to pass the high wing aircraft on the left but her right wing hit the other. Airplanes left wing lift strut her airplane. Then turn right about one hundred eighty degrees in the right wing struck the propeller and the right wing of the high wing airplane the cf. I in the high wing airplane reported that after exiting the runway onto a taxiway. He felt a small hit on the left side. You saw low wing. Airplane make a right one eighty around the funders airplane and hit. Its right wing. Both airplanes sustained substantial damage to the right. Wing's the student reported that there were no mechanical malfunctions or failures with the airplane. That would have precluded. Normal operation probable cause. A student pilots improper decision. The taxi pass another airplane occupying the taxiway and her subsequent failure to maintain clearance from the airplane. And i just want to add that. I know multiple cases of pilots who have damaged their aircraft while taxiing or dot done flying until the aircraft is made it back to its tie-down spot. I think so. Many people think that once they're done flying that it's just like driving a car. Nothing's going to happen. But you drive a car with pretty long wing sticking out there so make sure you're looking up both sides and be very careful about passing other aircraft while taxing most taxiways are really meant for one aircraft going in one direction in another ntsb report from general aviation news dot com flying with an air cast boot leads to loss of directional. Control the pilot reported that he was flying the airplane while wearing an air cast boot during landing to the airport in rock hill south carolina. The aerostar six. Oh one decelerated in the ask the passenger to move his feet up to the brake pedals and apply the brakes. He added that. The pastor applied insufficient differential brake application in the airplane veered left the pastor applied right breaking rudder correct but the plane then veered right. Exited the runway to hit a ditch. They're playing sustained substantial damage to the right wing pilot reported that he was wearing the boots due to a previous injury. He added that he had the ability fully manipulate both runner controls but the boot prevented him from being able to fully apply. Brake pressure pilot reported that there was no pre-accident mechanical failures or malfunctions. With the airplane. That would have precluded normal operation probable cause the pilots improper decision to fly with an aircraft on his foot which led him to rely on the passenger to apply brakes rudder which was performed improperly led to loss of directional control from signposts. That's ps y. Post dot org neuroscience study suggests that pilots display a unique pattern of brain functional connectivity. In yes i think that most spouses think that their pilots spouses brains are wired a little bit differently but now we have proof of it. Says pilots display a pattern of functional activity in the brain according to a new research conducted in china. The new studies examined interactions and synchronized activity between different areas. The brain and the findings suggest that pilots tend to have enhanced cognitive flexibility compared to their flying counterparts quote civil aviation is a distinctive career. Pilots work at complex dynamic and formation environment. They must be aware of all the relevant information regarding this environment and recognize their meaning and importance of the authors of the new research. An article published in p. l. o. s. one because of the cognitive demands placed on pilots the researchers hypothesize that they would display different patterns of brain connectivity. Compared to non-pilots the researchers used resting state a functional marai a widely used tool for investigating spontaneous brain activity to examine the important neuro cognitive networks in twenty six pilots and twenty four non-flying individuals who had a similar level of education fourteen. The pilots were flight. Instructors from the civil aviation flight university of china wall twelve pilots were first officers at airlines compared to the control where the pilots exhibited decreased functional connectivity within the central executive network and enhanced functional connections between the central executive network salience network and default mode network in a similar study published in frontiers in neuroscience researchers found that pilots also exhibited increased resting state functional connectivity within the default mode network the network has been referred to as the brains autopilot because of its link to mind wandering and self-referential thought also appears to play an important role in switching between cognitive task. Quote pilots are always working in complex dynamic environments. Flying is not now so much a physical job by high level cognitive activity. The pilots should be completely aware of all conditions in real time and be ready to deal with the various potential emergencies. The researchers explain. And so i gotta tell you i don't really know what all of this means other than. Yep we have proof now. Our brains are different and finally from cbs affiliate in los angeles. Hollywood man arrested for crashing drone into lapd chopper. A hollywood man was arrested last week on federal charges that he operated a drone which slammed into an lapd helicopter back in september forcing it to make an emergency landing. Andre fernandez twenty two was arrested by f. b. i. Agents on one count of unsafe. Operation of an unmanned aircraft authorities say the first criminal case in the nation in which person has been charged with unsafely operating drone in the early morning hours of september. Eighteenth and lapd helicopter was responding to a burglary call at hollywood pharmacy when it was struck by a drone forcing the pilot to make an emergency landing the collision damage the choppers knows antenna and bottom cowlings prosecutors alleged criminal complaint. If the drawn had struck the helicopter's main rotor and so the fuselage it could have brought the helicopter down the criminal. Complaint reads after striking the chopper. The drone fell to the ground at another residence nearby to hernandez home. It also damaged a vehicle and pieces of it were found by. Lapd officers near the pharmacy. Investigators reviewed the drones camera and s d. card to identify hernandez as its owner in late october. Fbi agents raided hernandez home during which he admitted that on the morning of the incident he had heard approaching sirens in decided to fly the drone to see what was going on. Prosecutors said at a separate article from nbc news in los angeles. It says the unsafe operation of an unmanned aircraft offense alleged in the complaint is a misdemeanor fence occurs sentence of up to a year in federal prison according to the us attorney's office well. That's the news for this week. Coming up next my weekly updates and after that we'll get to our main topic. Which is the accuracy of fuel gauges. All right here on the abc news. Talk podcast here's another fun. Flying destination an axe jackson from minnesota for another set of airports worth visit. Today i would like to recommend to airports that are about as far north as you can go. Minnesota i just for the experience is piney creek. Airport airport identifier four eight yankee. This airport along with a tiny handful of others is in both canada and the us say if your landing on runway one five. You're down when leg will be in canada and you will tax into the united states going the other way. You will be back. Taxiing through canada. Her destination so far the north there gases surprisingly cheap from numerous internet hosts about the airport. I recommend that you stop at roseau. Airport kilo romeo oscar x ray and call the us border patrol ahead of landing. Apparently they are suspicious of planes landing. Here they're number two one eight four three nine five two as i've been told better at bored and uninterested border guard than excited in suspicious border guard accu took off from piney creek. You can much more friendly treatment by following the rainy river east on the south side of the river until you run into international airport airport identifier kilo india november lima. Fbi is great. Sell canned jams and jellies from. Canada can highly recommend the saskatoon jam pending on the season. They also sell frozen walleyes. Don't forget your cooler. Group car is available. I've heard that the area fun to explore. But when i went we had to leave. Beat the sunset so they go another destination in the land north of toronto jackson. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. If you'd like to share your fun flying destination with the rest of us here just go ahead and use the voice memos app on your phone record about ninety seconds and then email it to me at aviation news talk at gmail.com. And here's a review. And i don't usually Reviews every once in a while one catches my attention. This was on apple. Itunes in the review was from The name of amazing five stars that was actually the name of the reviewer. The title was also only thirteen but also dream of career in aviation. And i think that's a reference to the airplane. Gigs podcast where we had someone who was thirteen. Say they listened to the show and this review said great. Podcasts also love airplane geeks podcast. Which is where i found this and i was thinking that's about the age thirteen fourteen when i got really crazy about aviation and started taking flying lessons when i was fifteen so anyway great time for young people to be thinking about what they wanna do in the future and certainly aviation is one of those things that you could do and of course another thing you could do is leave us a review and whatever app. You're listening to us on now. And here's a cute mean that. I saw this week. That i thought i'd share with you as i thought it was kind of funny. It says new emergency squawk code has been assigned from now on seventy seven. Hundred is no longer used in. The meantime had a picture of transponder in in it was inserted the emergency squawk code which was twenty twenty. Take a lot of people commented out of that. This has been a tough year at someone's proposed that become the new emergencies code so i thought that was cute. Hey let's talk about visual approaches. This comes from bold method dot com. I saw this earlier in the week. And you may recall back in episode one sixty six. I talked about instrument flying gotcha including departure procedures. That was very popular episode. So i thought you might be interested in this article which talks about what to do if you have a go around when flying a visual approach under aia far and i was intrigued because i didn't realize that the answer is different for towered airport versus a non towered airport. So if you're on an eye af our flight plan and you're clear to fly in instrument approach you'll brief plan to fly. The published missed approach procedure on the chart. You kind of course go on instrument approaches for all kinds of reasons such as failing to make visual contact with the runway environment conflicting traffic. You name it. But visual approaches are different because there isn't a published missed approach procedure when you're flying a visual approach under far if you're flying into a towered airport and you lose contact with the runway environment have a traffic conflict or experience wind shear among numerous other reasons. You'll have to go around on. Your visual. approach usually be assigned to fly. Runway heading at a top altitude is the first part of the missed approach. Tower controller will usually then victory back the final approach course or ask you to join the traffic pattern to land and this article on. Bold method talks about a nasa. As rs report it says in a corporate jet crew flying into rifle colorado. Our approach to landing was smooth with light winds and no turbulence. It appeared to be an easy landing at thirty feet. Ag l. over the landing threshold airspeed increased about fifteen. That's above the ref. And then the amber wind shirt nunciature eliminated we initiated a go around them devise. Seatac go around and advice taff. We would enter left traffic to return for a visual to runway eight. We remained on c. Taff while we cleaned up the aircraft for another visual to runway eight. I contacted the aircraft following us and requested their position and advise them of our intentions. I eventually made visual contact with that aircraft. Which was also i. F are an extended are down windfall. The aircraft we made an uneventful landing after landing include the runway. We contacted atc to cancel or flight. Plan a very irate. Atc individual ask what we had done and told us. We were still on an eye of our flight plan. We needed to contact him on our go around post-flight debrief we both realize since we did not council flight plan in the air. We were technically still on an eye af our flight plan the we were. Vmc at non towered field thoughts were focused on landing. And not going around. Additionally the faa's air nautical information manual covers around visual approaches and section five dash four dash sixty two e says a visual approach is not an ihop and therefore has no missed approach segment if a go round is necessary. For any reason aircraft operating at controlled. Airports will be issued inappropriate. Advisory clarence instruction by the tower at uncontrolled. Airports aircraft are expected to remain clear clouds. Incomplete landing as soon as possible if a landing cannot be accomplished. The aircraft is expected to remain clear of clouds and contact. Atc as soon as possible for further clarence separation from other aircraft will be maintained under these circumstances so there are a couple things that seem a little unusual about this one. Is it normally uncontrolled. Airports until an eye of our aircraft cancels there clearance no other iof are inbound. Aircraft are allowed inter out. So it's odd. This crew had to extend their down win to follow another i-if our aircraft. That was behind them into it. Seems like the crew followed the procedure and did what the aim said and yet. Atc chewed them out anyway. Now the crew did not report that all of this could be avoided if they had simply canceled. I-if are after the head the runway and site. Of course there's no requirement to do that but sometimes doing that just makes things a little easier for everyone involved so there you have it if you go round while individual approach do with the tower tells you if you're a non towered airport land as soon as possible and if you can't land then contact. Atc and speaking of a atc. Zero is an official term used by the faa that means they're unable to provide atc services within the airspace managed by a specific facility. Now the past these events have been relatively rare but during the pandemic occurred a little more often about a week ago i noticed. Note them that nor cal. Approach was closed for a few hours during the wee hours of the night now that covers a huge area of northern california but apparently one of their controllers tested positive for covid so they apparently they were doing some type of deep cleaning facility and were closed for a few hours. And during that time i f our services were not available but frankly it was in the middle of the night. So there's very little traffic. Then anyway. And i noticed a story just a day or two ago in the orange county register which said that a positive coronavirus test forced some john wayne airport air traffic controllers to quarantine so through sunday. There will be only to control his working at that tower. At which a reduction from the six that typically man the tower at its busiest points during the day. So all kinds of things happening these days so just be aware of. Atc services might be a little bit constrained at some point in time near you. And here's an email that came to me from. Captain billy hoffman. He's a doc in the army and he has survey which is going which he's looking for people to fill out. He says pilots face unique barrier to seeking medical care because of the professional and social implications. A new medication condition can have on their status pilot. For this reason it is common knowledge in the aviation community. That pilots are often adverse to seeking medical care. Interestingly this phenomena is not well studied the medical literature further there is very little data to validate the way the faa currently screens assesses pilot fitness for flight this problem is not only theoretical a review of all aviation accidents in the united states in two thousand seventeen showed five percent of all incidents that resulted in the loss of life were specifically attributed to me conditions. Not disclose to an ame for this reason. We have set out to study this issue and advocate for evidence based intervention to address the barriers pilots. Face when seeking care we have to recently published papers on a recent study that demonstrates this barrier we have a current study that is enrolling pilots with the objectives of generating data on specific interventions. So far nearly three thousand pilots have participated in the study has been shared by united airlines. The university of north dakota and civil air patrol the coming weeks. It'll be shared to pilots across the us air force. We have multiple other studies in different phases including one with the university of alberta and canada to see how this issue differs from the. Us saw include lincoln the show notes where you can go take the survey and thanks so much. Captain hoffman for sending this long. And i want to pestle on congratulations to three very special people. Three class of mine have all passed their check rides in just the last four weeks so you can tell we've all been busy. All of these people were working with me early in the year. When i suspended flight training due to the pandemic during the summer i started teaching in the simulator again and began working with all my instrument clients and in early september i began flying again with clients though. Just one of them at a time and for just the two or three weeks took each of them to finish prepping for their check ride so i spent the first three weeks working with a vision jet pilot to prepare him for his type rating training and then in quick succession. I flew about two weeks each with two people working on their instrument ratings and then for three weeks with a client finishing her private. So congratulations to vinit rex. Isaac wyatt who are both now instrument rated pilots and to stella su who passed her private in has plans to become an airline pilot. Congratulations to all of you. And congratulations to a recent patriot supporter. Nick reinhart who says max. Thanks for your show. I just followed earlier today at three mike yankee. Thanks for all the encouragement near show. Look forward to listening in every week your free. Welcome nick and congratulations to you. And here's a post from patriot. Support martin miller is good morning. I just received my december issue of alpa pilot and saw you back page. Congratulations that's like making the aviation centerfold well-deserved well thank you. So much martin and yes. This is quite an honor. I think most people know that the back of upa every month they feature one person in this month. that's me. i think it's quite an honor. One that i never expected to receive but probably one things. I'll be most proud of in my career ill. Pa contacted me back in the early part of the summer and asked me if i would be interested in being featured and then they sent a photographer out in june and shot a really awesome picture. It's a serious. Which centered on a yellow taxi. Way stripe and that. I'm standing next to the aircraft and the stripe blurs right up to the camera. Lenses shot from a low angle. So it's really neat photo. And it says max trescott cirrus instructor and author quote. It's all enjoyable. And the first few lines here says max. Truscott is very happy right where he is. Thank you very much. As a professional flight instructor is shunned the world of corporate an airline flying for something a little slower lower and a lot more fun good description by the way his secret to making a good living as a flight instructor ajab on considered a necessary evil on the road to bigger and better things is to focus on one area or type of aircraft quote. I'm a strong believer in specializations trescott the author of two books on the operation of garment avionics with third on the way he also hosts the popular aviation news. Talk podcast but its primary job was flight instruction in the series. Sr twenty two and s fifty vision jet and the article goes on. I wanna thank very much. intuitively Four contacting me and for writing the article. It's really great. And if you get when you get the december issue just turn to the back page and you'll see it there. And here's an email from a brand new patriots supporter luke clawson. Luke says i've been flying for over fifty years including air force airlines corporate and generally. Va shin hyman active. See i in dp. I don't think i've listened to a single podcast where i didn't find some worthwhile takeaways. Appreciate your work and dedication to aviation look thank you so much for those kind words and for supporting the show and of course. If you'd like to sign up. Support the show as nick martin and luke do. This would be a really great time to do it as we're coming up on the first of the month. That's when we always lose about a half dozen supporters because their credit cards expire and unfortunately most of those people don't come back to us a few them do and when you sign up i read your name which will be heard by thousands of listeners in one hundred and forty countries around the world. If you sign up at patriot you can support us at different monthly levels for example at the four dollar month level you'll get access to transcripts read show and that the eight dollar a month level. You'll get transcripts plus too many stories that were cut because we didn't have enough time to talk about them at the twenty dollar month level you'll get access to some of these shows early as well as some videos that i post for patrons at the thirty five dollars a month level you had access to my online courses for free. Normally people pay for these out at pilot. Learning dot com. Of course when i add new courses you'll get access to those as well and at the fifty dollars a month level after two months. I'll send you a copy of one of my books. So to support the show via patriots. Just go out to aviation news. Talk dot com slash. Awesome since you're all awesome. Listeners could make monthly donation via credit card or a one time contribution via pay pal. Just aviation news talk dot com slash pay pal in allah. Tell you about our to latest mega supporters people who donate fifty dollars or more or a month to the show. James kerr. He is interested in buying. Sr twenty two for business travel and his company makes security screens for protecting your home. You can find out more about it. Boss security screens dot com and new this week. A real english. he's a recent. Cfi currently working on his double. I he in a front of created a website to make free flight. Planning modern and fast the site is called flyway. And you can check it out yourself at flyway dot. Cbc and we have a number of other patrons who joined us sued 166 catherine kavak narrow. She added her pledge up to thirty five dollars a month. Carl frankenmuth trevor tchernoff. Michael berra's j. steffenhagen. He's also thirty five dollars a month. Jason campbell anonymous jero pearson. Jeff martin at it has pledged twenty dollars a month. Tiffany shero luke. Clawson in john sadie. We've also had some one time donation through pay pal. The include daniel wilkins a fifty dollars. Thanks for the great podcast. He says martin sacks also fifty dollars alexander sack twenty five dollars. Daniel brown fifty dollars. He's a new listener and a relatively new student pilots. Congratulations daniel and scott. Ramsey has just donated one hundred dollars. Thank you all so much for your donations. And here's a list of all of our mega supporters who donate fifty dollars a month or more. Brian deer lives in northern california and flies turbo two. Oh six tyson. Weiss co founder and ceo of four flight bruce dickerson. He's a financial planner in georgia. He flies a k. Thirty five. bonanza. Victor vogel lives in central. Pa and flies a cirrus. Tim delay these a wealth manager in santa rosa and flies in. Sr twenty. two. Santa rosa airport. Stephen ilab flies a turbo one. Eighty two and a citation. Cj three plus. He's the ceo of api jet. Mike williams is the president of kenya. Mac and tcp composites which makes composite spinners and bulkheads for g aircraft. And he flies a one. Seventy two seth lake. We've had him on the show. He's dp giving check rides in arkansas. He also specializes in teaching the multi engine rating so if you'd like to get your twin engine rating checkout vs vsel dot ero. Rick miller instruction cincinnati area out of the lumpkin flight training center and individually with owners of piper cessnas. Beechcraft cut us. It love to teach fulltime but still working on that day job just in winter he brokers real estate on lake yoi in south carolina and he flies a two thousand nineteen sr twenty two carlin and rossi of maine. Coon cat aviation. They have two cessna t to forties and they have a piper him three fifty on order. Johnny mcdaid singer songwriter musician and record producer. Jim gould. he flies out of republic airport on long island. He's training for his cf. I in double i and teaching aviation at pilot proficiency international as an advanced instrument ground instructor you can line him up for in person teaching if you'd like online through his facebook page at ground point nine charles mason flies out of austin working on his instrument rating in a one. Seventy two vincent sally me. He's council member for the city of pinellas here in california. He owned sally me. Construction management and san francisco. Jim hop. Cfi five. he teaches at advantage. Aviation at the palo. Alto airport. laura's lick chen's our youngest supporter if liza redbird to simulator hands someday hopes to fly his dad cessna two. Oh five dead. Cells boats in the western states at boulder boats dot com joseph. She flew in the navy for eight years and now has a couple of hundred hours in his vision. Jet josie freeman working on his instrument rating dylan caldwell. He's an ame in florida. The naples municipal airport so if you need a basic mid second or third class flight physical contact him it. Aviators clinic dot com and william birch. He donates the show. In the memory of his son. Lieutenant j g walls perch who was a naval aviator don hey cala with professional instrument courses. They conduct ten-day instrument courses. I are finish up in. I are refresher courses at i fly. I f r dot com stephen bush. We've had on the show. He's the owner of lonestar helicopters in lago vista texas. They do all kinds of training and helicopters including add on ratings. You can find them at lonestar. Heli dot com don. Domini is a professional pilot. Who runs an airline flight department. He's also and flies. A bonanza rick. Mattis owner of point. Wise which makes cfd computational fluid dynamics software used by aerospace companies. And you can find that point wise dot com. John tosto lives in flint michigan. He rents planes at the greater flint. Pilots association and co owns a turkey. Six just been updated with a garmin g three x and carmen autopilot vic josh. He's a sr twenty two hundred here in the san francisco bay area. Rick love based in knoxville. He's a serious seascape former sears. Factory flight instructors. Well specializes in finish up courses for instrument commercial ratings and. He's available to help you fly home in your new serous. You can reach him. Rick loves cfi at gmail.com mark holes. Bach lives in south western. Pa he's longtime th uzis and wants to get his private when he retires. At a few years he runs baden. Steel dot com which manufacturers industrial fasteners. Tim crawford flies a da. Forty at crosswinds aviation at the oakland county airport north of detroit. He runs a company called brain spring. That helps children with dyslexia in. Greg is a senior ame at the mayo clinic in rochester minnesota. And he's the host of the mayo clinic clear approach which is a podcast that discusses medical issues for pilots. And we've talked about james kerr and ari'el english and my thanks to everyone who supports the show in whatever way you do coming up next. We've got our main topic which includes an interview with tom. Turner right here on the aviation news. Talk podcast about fuel gauges. I recently got an email from patriot. Supporter tom turner used executive director. Of the american bonanza society and he was responding to a listener common in episode one sixty seven. That suggested. That fuel gauges can't be trusted. Tom wrote that. Feel gauges can be extremely accurate and reliable but only if they are properly maintained. So i thought i'd invite him onto the show to talk more about fuel gauges and here's conversation. Now let me tell you a little bit about tom turner. Tom spent six years. The air force was a minute man. Missile combat crew commander layer. He earned a master's in aviation safety with an emphasis on pilot. Training methods and human factors is also the executive director. For the american bonanza society. And we had tom back on way. Back episode fourteen. You also runs mastery flight. Training provides individual flight training. For beech bonanza and baron owners and he was named the twenty ten national faa safety team representative of the year and was inducted into the flight instructor. Hall of fame in twenty fifteen. Tom welcome back to the show. Great to have you back. Great to be back. Max thank you. Will you sent me an email here a little while ago. You said you were listening to episode one sixty seven. I think you're on the treadmill. Am i correct. Yeah it's getting to the point where it gets dark early so i can speak more department abasement listening to you. I'm amazed at the number of people who tell me that. The podcast with their exercise routine so a lot of people doing something when when listening while wouldn't episode one sixty seven we were talking about fuel related accidents and you said that there's some common misperceptions that people have about fuel gauges. What are some of those misperceptions well as addressed in that episode. What can resonated with me. Was the the statement. That fuel gauges Trust and the discussion that you had centered on fuel. Starvation and feels exhausted. Events and kind of centered on the fuel indications as being the unreliable fueled indications Is being up possible cause of this or at least certainly contributor to the mishap and it's it's actually a misconception that fuel gauges don't have to be accurate and consequently we can dismiss. The reality is very different so tell us about some of the fuel gauge requirements for aircraft. Here in the us well twenty-three thirteen thirty. Seven tells us exactly what fuel gauges have to do. And this is where we get that perception of inaccuracy. Sometimes because this is what most people site when they say that fuel gauges are only required to read accurately when they are empty specifically the regulation says the fuel gauges to read empty when the fuel level in that tank is at the lowest usable fuel level. But this is only one stipulation of twenty three thirteen thirty seven. It's only one of a list of requirements for mortgage accuracy. The overriding discussion is that they're quote. There must be a means to indicate to the flight. Crew members the quantity of usable fuel in tanks during flight. An indicator calibrated inappropriate units and clearly marked to those units must be used and then in addition it gives six different requirements that requirement to read accurately at the lowest unusable Lowest usable fuel level. Only being one of the so the overriding regulation says you have to have accurate fuel gauge. Now let's give you a list of specific things you need to include in that and the perception that they're only accurate when they're empty can potentially lead us to distrust fuel gauge indications and consequently disregard them. When they're telling us something we don't expect don't want to read and flight. You also mentioned that there. You've seen something different when you've been teaching australia. Tell us about that. Well it is interesting. I've been been lucky to have spent quite a bit of time. Flying around with friends and beach products in australia. And one of the things. I noticed in aircraft is that they uniformly have a calibration card posted next to the fuel quantity ages in the aircraft and it will say for example at one half it reads x number of leaders and one quarterly reads x number of leaders. So it is if you will. The fuel gauge equivalent of a compass correction car. The difference here is that it's something that we will use on every single flight. And i asked i know a lot of the call luma. Lamy's down the engineers or the mechanics down there. Ask some of the engineers. I now about that. Calibration and learned that this is actually a a regular requirement for generally the asian aircraft in australia. Every three years they have to have their fuel gauges recalibrate so that suggests to me two things number one that the fuel gauges are generally accurate across their entire range number two if we bothered to maintain them they can give us a high degree of accuracy as to the actual fuel in the tanks. The problem we have in the united states that leads to the distrust and dismissal of fuel gauge indications in my opinion is that there's no regulation in the. Us that tells us we have to calibrate these things and given the average age of a general aviation airplane. We've got electric device. That may be forty fifty. Six years old no wonder they are frequently inaccurate. And we think we can't trust them. What about Rebuilding fuel gauges. What's experience in the beach community. Well there are really two components to the fuel indicating system in our aircraft the display in the cockpit itself and the sender or the transmitter or transmitters in most cases multiple ones in the tanks and the transmitters. Are your basic float. Type transmitter as the fuel changes. Afloat moves up and down in that converts to electric signal. That goes to the indicating system the cockpit the two things the two components have their own failure modes. Of course if something happens to one of the floats if it's actuator get stuck or there is some sort of maybe a disruption to the wiring in them so that changes the the resistance to the floats so you get an inaccurate but if the flow itself is is damaged in some way than it can be changed out. There is a very popular aftermarket provider cis in oregon that is a lot of beach airplanes and our members. Love it they said. Hey if i put these things. In some of these gauges tremendously accurate. While if they replaced or repaired the original gauges probably be just as accurate as well. The seconds Component is the indication system in the cockpit the indicators in at least the last forty years of these airplanes are driven through a circuit board a printed circuit board behind the panel. So the signal comes. From the centers to the circuit board in the night gets converted into a an indication of the cockpit the circuit boards seem to be the weak link. There and there is an aftermarket supplier or provider of repairs to those circuit boards. That that's a very common repair in the older airplanes as well. We'll tell us about some of the other aftermarket things available in the f. T. c.'s. That you can get through typically in the beech bonanzas well. All of the at the popular fuel monitoring systems are interface -able with the flow system in the circuit system for example. The air safety foundation owns a thirty. Six bonanza canadian one model and it's been retrofitted with the garmin a gourmet side panel and the garment. Yes the engine information system that has among other things fuel total function we have the original style floats and sanders in that airplane. Yet of the the after folks actually have donated a set in at such time. We need new ones will put them in but the the current ones are very accurate and when we made the switch from traditional gauges to the the s. I had some fuel indication issues. But it wasn't anything wrong with the existing the original system it was just getting the the interface to work right but all of the popular fuel monitors can interface with the floats in these airplanes. And give you very accurate information as well so just go ahead. Briefly explained the difference between fuel. Total iser and fuel gauges so people understand the difference absolutely and that will lead back to the importance of maintaining in entrusting. Your fuel gauges as well a fuel. Total wiser is an electronic device that measures the rate at which were the amount of fuel through transducer honored to combust and so depending on whether it's carburetor fuel injected in the design of the fuel injection system that transducer will be some in some different location in the engine cut or but it's going to be just prior to the point that the fuel gets distributed to the singlet fuel flows through that it it creates an electrical signal that is converted to information the cockpit can be very very accurate. So that tells you with extreme poverty. The amount of fuel that has flowed through that device in some time. If you are equally accurate inputting the original fuel load into the total eiser which is a manual input by the pilot. Then you have extremely precise way of measuring how much fuel was burned by that injured or those engines. Fuel flow. Gauges are excellent. Cross chair to catalyze because total is irs only measure the fuel that go through that transducer. If you've got a fuel leak or some other situation where fuel is pardoning the fuel tanks but not going through the engine a total eiser will not give you good information as an example just recently in this eight thirty six. We had a very common failure mode in these airplanes. The the right wing in this case you'll cap had a bit of a leak to it. There's a there's a rubber seal in there as they age. They crack in that allows Aired of polio. Fuel out in flight and in this particular type of airplane very consistently one trip around the pattern we tended to do eight flight testifying. The everything worked out right but one trip around the traffic pattern will draw about five gallons of fuel through that tank. So fuel siphoned out at a very rapid rate just what not a drop of that went through the transducer so had i not noticed that i had a fuel cap leak it i not seeing this fine mist of fuel spraying out the wing. I'm would be very happy to take a long endurance strip in this aircraft. Trustee my total eiser when my fuel gauge would have if it was accurate would have shown an accurate reduction of fuel in most cases third. Some failure modes. That won't work either but they do provide a valuable cross-check to what the total is says. I guess we do some other cross-checking routinely every time you fill up things like that to talk about what you do with fuel receipts and things like that well but this example of that is a job. I had prior to coming here to the american cancer society. I worked for a company in tennessee that had to be trapped barons and the two of us who flew the airplane so i routinely flew one and my boss routinely flew the other but it was not terribly unusual to swap airplanes for one reason or another and so i put together a protocol for buying fuel load and we looked at all of the different ways to verify the fuel load. One of course is a visual check. Which is the most accurate opened up the fuel cap in look in there however in the beach airplanes because of the wing died he grow if the fuel load is less than about three quarters tanks. You can't see any fewer all in there. You see the bottom of the black. So that's only as good as a total fuel level. There were times you know working for a heavy construction company. Sometimes you have to haul some heavy stuff and so there time when you wanted to have a reduced fuel level on these airplanes so we could carry more cabin payload and in those cases we cross checked otherwise one of the airplanes had a a secondary visual display afloat. Type display on the top of wing. So we can look that both of the airplanes. We had total wiser so we would cross. Check the total is. We kept a written book little notebook. Spiral notebook in each airplane were recorded the. Or jackson that sort of stuff and we also wrote down the tat time and the amount of fuel onboard every time we added fuel to the aircraft and then we had the cabin fuel gauges. The factory fuel gauges and the total themselves. So there were five or six different ways to check the fuel level and the rule that we establish the protocol that we followed was that if any one of those indications we check them all before he flew the airplane unless we could see the fuel was full. We checked everything else. In any one of those showed some unusual number or or indicated something wildly different from the others are only recourse was to put enough fuel in until we could visually check it. And then startled. That's great and i'm guessing you've never had any fuel related accidents. Aubrey important early on because both of those airplanes were earlier planes early barons and they had a really good useful load more often than not refuel. The air but at one point we traded to airplane to baron's for a virtually new nineteen ninety eight model at that point and had a significantly higher empty weight so we found ourselves having to fly that airplane reduced fuel loads quite a bit of the time we changed our rule instead of always topping. Got back home. You never topped off until it was time to go so it was very easy to make the transition to that aircraft. Having already had years of experience with this protocol to check each other on our fuel loads do the modern current day beechcraft that are being sold. Include low fuel level warning such as have been included in the cessnas since nineteen ninety-seven. Yes the the low fuel monitoring system was added coincident with the intersection of one thousand which was in the two thousand six model year at neither got it and there was a point in time where cessna said in a press release that there had not been a single fuel related accident since they introduced the that feature into the airplane. I love it. It's nice to have the warning. Come up and tell you. Hey one of those tanks has now dropped below a certain level. Yeah you my flying lessons. Weekly walk and one of the things i do. That goes along with. That is what. I call the beach. Weekly accident update track trans and provide commentary on specific to the beach christian airplanes and i noticed that very thing as well that it took almost ten years for a fuel related mishap to affect one of the airplanes that had this g one thousand bays fuel monitor or fuel monitoring system. Yes i think something that people probably don't realize these types of fuel accidents are far more likely to happen in aircraft that were built before the introduction of glass cockpits with their fuel told allies irs low fuel sensor warnings those kinds of things and in some cases range rings that are based until relies indication ground speeding such as well. That's great yeah. Interestingly enough through my weekly accident update which has been doing since nineteen ninety eight. I found that very very consistently over the decades about ninety percent of all reported. Engine failure accidents in beech. Bonanza barons our fuel starvation or fuel exhaustion events in other words. If we could better monitor fuel use in flight and the actual fuel we have fuel level. We have based on the combination of total wiser. An old school indicating systems we can eliminate ninety percent of all risk of These aircraft and at one point. I know that fuel related accidents were somewhere around. Eleven twelve percent of all accidents in the country. So yeah all you really need to do is pay a lot of attention to fuel related issues at suddenly. You've just eliminated more than ten percent of potential accidents. You get off on the single versus twin discussion. And if you monitor your fuel properly there's really not much additional risk in single engine airplane You could get into the discussion with twins if competent to fly at any state training then obviously. There is an increase in safety but the the hazard presented by flying single engine. Airplane is significantly reduced. If you monitor your robbery and as you start to wrap up here. Any final thoughts on fuel gauges well in short. It is possible to maintain fuel gauges. And if you maintain them properly they can be extremely accurate. They provide a very valuable cross. Check to total And other fuel monitoring schemes and will give you a reality check if you have something like a fuel leak or fuel casks siphoning That wouldn't be recorded on total eiser. The australian experienced proves that these same pieces of equipment and calibrate them and they can be extremely accurate and useful. Tom thanks so much for sharing this with us here today. Where do people find out more about you your newsletter. And the american bonanza society. Well couple things. My my personal website is mastery flight training with hyphen. So it's mastery hyphen flight. Hyphen training dot com. And that's the home of flying lessons weekly. you can subscribe free there and a few other things. I have there as well. of course. The american bonanza society supports over ten thousand members and largest beechcraft owner community. We're at www bonanza that orgy. Tom thanks so much for joining us here today. Thanks for asking that during the conversation. Tom mentioned six different. Things that are required for fuel. Gauges and i ask them to follow up with that. Sent me this email. So i want to go ahead and give you this additional information. He says the telling part isn't the list of six items that are part of fuel. System designed certification but the overriding regulation regulation. Be that states. There must be a means to indicate to the flight. Crew members quantity of usable fuel in each tank during flight says the system is required to read correctly. Only when it's empty would not meet this requirement that a display usable fuel level during flight. Here's the regulation twenty-three doubt one three three seven. B power plant instruments installation fuel quantity indication. There must be a means to indicate to the flight who remembers the quantity of usable fuel in each tank during flight and indicator calibrated inappropriate units and clearly marked to indicate those units must be used in addition and it lists these six items one. Each fuel quantity indicator must be calibrated to read zero during level flight when the quantity of fuel remaining of the tank is equal to the unusable. Fuel supply determined under twenty three nine five nine a to each exposed site gauge uses fuel quantity indicator must be protected against damage three each site gauge that forms. A trap in which water can collect and freeze must have means to allow ranch on the ground. Four there must be a means to indicate the amount of usable fuel in each tank when the airplane is on the ground. Such as by stick age five tanks with interconnected outlets and airspaces may be considered one tank and lead not have separate indicators and six no fuel quantity indicator is required for exhilarate tank that is used only to transfer fuel to other tanks if the relative size of the tank the rate of fuel transfer and operating instructions are adequate to one guard against overflow in to give the flight crew members prompt warning if transfers not proceeding as planned and. He says at twenty three that to four thirty states. A each feel system must four provide the flight crew with means determine the total usable fuel available and provide uninterrupted supply. The fuel when the system was correctly operated accounting for likely fuel fluctuations don. Thanks so much for the follow up on that coming up next listener feedback with stories of listener. Close calls all right here on. The aviation is talk podcast. Here's an email from listener. mark hennequin. Our he says hi actually. Recent show. on fuel. Starvation hit home. I had one incident and now the pilots to others. My personal one was that i was flying from plaster ville to mariposa and that's here in california. The flight south went. Well i stopped at mariposa then started to head back home to plaster ville and fifteen minutes after takeoff. I was scanning the gauges what i knows. The left hand gauge read mt. That was a heart-stopping moment. But fortunately the gauge started reading the correct fuel quantity about five minutes later. That was the last time. I took off without doing a walk around even for shortstop second incident. Involved a friend. I'll call him. Mr. e he had property in arizona would top off his tanks and western arizona and fly north to sacramento to the maximum range of his tanks without reserves. Whether in wins were not in his favor and he and his records were found the next day. Third one involved a cfi from the fbi. I rented from. He borrowed a cessna to ten from the f. b. o. Flew from reno onto watsonville without doing preflight ran out of fuel after a go around when he was cut off by another pilot and the pattern he blamed it on the pilot that cut him off. Think about that that That doesn't make a whole lot of sense and another one he said did not actually happen. I was killing some time and drove out to sierra ville airport in a pilot there. That was getting ready to depart for nevada city. We talked about flying and he mentioned that he only had five gallons of fuel in a assessment one fifty and he thought it would be just enough to get the nevada city if he flew straight there. I pointed out that he'd be flying into rising terrain pushing his luck to make it telling him it would be safer to fly to intervene. Now get some gas than head home. And i did mention how i had lost a friend to fuel starvation. The pilot took offer new. Which is only about fifteen miles away. Well thanks so much for that mark. In here's the email that was sent to rob mark. Listener wishes to remain anonymous. He says i'm currently listening to the aviation news. Talk podcast were you. And max. We're talking about vr into imc an icing. Thought i'd entertain you a bit with my one icing story. This is about my fifth cross country flight in imc after getting my iof are rating. Said there are mountains three to four thousand feet. All around us and i was definitely an imc. I filed southbound and everything went fine landed met with my client and went back to the f. b. o. To look at the weather and file my northbound flight there was a cloud layer at five thousand feet in icing forecast at eight thousand with another layer. So i filed for seven thousand departed and climbed out through the first layer. That was a non-event once crews between layers. I could see a long ways to the north. So is confident of the planning. However the outside air temperature was very close to zero degrees after about twenty minutes looked at the outside air temperature sensor that was sticking out above the pilots windscreen and notice a slight build up. Just perhaps about an eighth of an inch of ice but got my attention but in the next minute. The entire windscreen almost instantly froze over literally and limited. My ford visibility came out of nowhere. I immediately instruments and turn to tell my wife and the right seat that we were going back as we were picking up ice in the fifteen seconds. It took me to say those words. She pointed to the attitude. Indicator and i was a hard right bank. Did not feel it at all in the seat of the pants. I corrected to straight level and immediately did a one eighty stang hard on the instruments knowing i had hard pointy things mountains of course three thousand feet below me once turned around then contacted approach and told them what i did. I did not wait to contact them. Ask for approach get approval and then initiate the one eighty. I told him i was picking up. Aisin was ascending and returning. Atc ask if i was declaring an emergency. I said no just need to get down. Direct to the destination controllers voice told me he was pissed as they have sometimes commercial traffic going into that airport. He turned one airplane. And as i was getting into via farhi cleared me direct to the airport. I dropped down to about fifty five hundred feet in the ice vanished as fast as it froze over landed safely spent. The night came home the next morning. I f in decent weather so based on what you guys were saying the podcast i do the right thing to get out of an and ask permission. Whole thing was two minutes from icing clarence direct to the airport. So not that. Cost too. Much of a ruckus. I did however live to tell you this tale. It was also my last our trip. Not because i was scared because we sold the airplane and i never flew along iof our trip in it again well and just to answer his question. Technically he should have notified. Atc before he made the one eighty on the other hand if he were to declare an emergency after having made a one eighty of then there wouldn't be any issue with him not to ask permission before he turned. But yes ideally you always want to notify. Atc before you make a one eighty but frankly if there's an emergency don't worry about it make your turn as quickly as possible. Declare the emergency. Here's an email from helen woods. She says maxine enjoyed your latest episode today but did wanna make one comment whether intended or not discussion about whether related accidents give the impression that are just something that low time pilots need to worry about. I think far too many reports out there. Give this impression in helen. That's a really good point. That was certainly not my intent. High thai pilots also get into weather related accidents. It just seems that so many the ones that to me are are so moving. Our folks who have low time and perhaps just didn't know better and got killed because they got into a helen continues after his retirement. From being a naval aviator test pilot scott crossfield became a well known and well loved g. A pilot here in the dc area. Everyone was shocked when he died of that thunderstorm in two thousand six. I don't know if you recall but there was a lot of discussion about whose fault was his or the controllers for him fly into a storm. This was in the early days of xm and before a dsp. He did not have weather on his aircraft. He did though ask the controller him around whether but that request had been to prior controller previous to the one that was working him when he flew into the storm. A opiate at a multi page spread about. Who did what and whose responsibility it was to do. What and pretty much. The entirety of the discussion. The accident revolved around that. Probably because no one could imagine. A pilot is experienced. A scott crossfield making rookie mistakes. I didn't think anything more about until several years later at adventure. When i was at one of the rodman shadows seminars when raw told the story and let the other shoe drop that had been completely missed by ao pa and other press sources. The day of the accident was mr cross fields wedding anniversary. He was down in the carolinas and his wife was back home. in virginia. there was a t.f. Are scheduled for later that day at the airport where he was staying had he not left. At that time you would be trapped by the t. afar and not made it home for his anniversary. I think it's very important when discussing whether to make sure every pilot listening understand that these lessons are for everyone time. Inexperienced does not make you immune to the types of pressures that mic so poorly with weather. Helen thank you so much for that email. And i totally agree with you whether related accidents happen to all of us. No matter how good a pilot we are how many hours we have. We need to consistently make good decisions on every single flight and that involves weather as well too and just a quick reminder back in early september i said we had about three hundred sixty patrons. I'd love your help to get up to four hundred by the end of the year. Well we're getting there. We've got three hundred and seventy one though. I know we're gonna lose some here at the beginning of the month. So if you haven't done so already please go on out to aviation news talk dot com slash awesome news talk dot com slash paypal and sign up to support the show and finally. Please tell all of your friends about the nation is talked podcast. And if they don't know what a podcast is just sent them out to the apple app store. Google play store because they're they can download dedicated app for free. It's really really easy to do that. Just tell them the search in the store for aviation news talk so until next time fly safely have funding. Keep the blue sign up.

Eclipse aviation twenty million dollars five million dollars alpa smith piney creek faa rob mark five million dollar one billion dollars Walrath alan clapp hundred ninety eight million d twenty five thousand dollars forty million dollars general aviation manufacturers ceo p four percent twenty seven percent Twenty six percent
Revisited w/ Dave Rogers

Office Ladies

1:19:33 hr | 11 months ago

Revisited w/ Dave Rogers

"Small businesses and twenty twenty have to do more with less. Suddenly every single higher is critical while there are fewer resources to find. The right people indeed is here to help indeed, DOT COM is the number one job site in the world because indeed gets you the best people fast you only pay for what you need. You can pause your account at any time and there are no long term contracts right now indeed is offering our listeners a free seventy, five dollars credit to boost your job post, which means a more quality candidates will see it fast. Try and eat out with a free seventy five dollars credit at indeed dot com slash office ladies, terms, and conditions apply offer valid through September thirtieth. So John, I wanNA talk to you a little bit about shipped. Is Yeah Right. It's a delivery done totally differently they have these expert shoppers they go to the store for you. They pick out fresh groceries, household essentials, even pet supplies from the local stores that you love and then they deliver them to you. Yeah. You get everything delivered to your door in a soon as one hour. So it saves time for the good stuff like bread baking, which you know you have to hover over the bread to make it. Right. Yes. Gina it saves you time to make your bread and also helps you to just be home be with your family and your shopper. We'll keep you updated with text from the aisles and can pick in season produce like a total pro thoughtful shoppers, unbelievable fresh produce, and peace of mind. That's the difference shipped. Makes try same-day delivery for yourself at shipped DOT com slash office ladies today. That's S. H. I. P. T. dot com slash office ladies. Jenna Fischer Angela. Kinsey. We were on the office together and we're best friends, and now we're doing the ultimate office rewatch podcast just for you each week, we will break down an episode of the office and give exclusive behind the scene stories that only two people who were there can tell you where the office ladies. Hello everyone. Hello. Welcome to another revisited deep dive episode of Office Ladies Yes you guys you heard malaria friend. Today, we're going back over the first half of season three of office ladies podcasts. We're GONNA respond to your questions or comments about all the things we missed. We might not get to all of those guys but we're GONNA try. So that's basically everything from gay witch hunt to Benihana Christmas. Yes. Now Angela were calling it a revisited deep dive. We did one of these with Ken co-op is where we really focused on casino night. You know like you said, we're going to do multiple episodes today we had some people right in with ideas for what we could call these. I love it. I love way. Some people thought we could call it a remix. Some people thought we could call it a rerun. Joel an Ama- wrote in and said, we should call these episodes second drinks. Second. So we are going to do a second drink of gay witch hunt all the way to Benny Hana's Christmas. But we're also going to do a deep dive interview with our editor of nine years dave, Rogers yes. And Angela I want you to listen to this sweet note that we got about Dave from the Newman. Okay. She wrote in she said I got to meet Dave Rogers once the office was done filming. I went and waited outside the gates in hopes that someone would come out and let me go in and see the set sure enough after a few hours days came out and was beyond generous. Gave me a full tour of the office and warehouse it. Was the best day ever? Oh my gosh. Well, that is just the day that we know Jonah he is just so lovely like that. Yes. Well, we're really excited to talk to him. You guys no one knows the show like Dave truly he like watched us an edited us for nine years. The Guy knows every detail about the show and and we're super super excited. Yes and you guys sent in a bunch of questions. Thank you for sending those in. Angela I'd like to start this revisit second drink by addressing what is possibly My. I know what it is biggest Faux Pas so far in the podcast, I just I want to get it over with. Do it. Okay. I. Laughed by the way, all the comments are really cracked me up you guys. Thank you. I'm calling this revisited fast fact number one general really shit the bed on the plot Lou stocking. I. Got it. Totally wrong. Well, I was no help because I haven't seen. It saw like I. Don't know what? You guys remember at the beginning of the merger. Michael is pretending to do a bit based on look who's talking this movie and I. Confidently very confidently to this whole explanation of the plot. So. Many of you wrote in I, mean too many to name. Truly a lot. There were a lot but Sarah Elliott Leon O'Brien. Rebecca Garnett Katie Humphries and Melissa all said Jenna John. Travolta is not the father of the talking Bruce. Willis Baby. It's actually Kirstie Alley's boss. And Yeah, I mean, yes it all came back to me once I did. One night stand he wasn't the Dad. Now he got into the hospital and then just somehow hung around while I'm afraid now I'm afraid because. Get wrong again. But somehow I believe he goes in the hospital with her. I know I should check why did turn? Wait he this is such a drink you gotta follow up. Here's the thing. I think clearly you and I were meant to watch this together even if I have to do it over. Zoom. I will bring the rosy for myself asks. Resume and you and I are going to watch this movie together. It's a BFF date Oh lady I'm so excited for it. We will watch look who's talking together and we will bring you our discoveries Jeff I. Love It. Okay. We'll. If was your revisited fastback number one are you ready for my fastback number two? Yes. I said we'd never been on a boat before. We've been on a big old hunkin boat. Booze cruise. Yeah. Those crews, lady I mean we were on a boat for three days together. We got the news that you were going to be a series regular. On a boat together while on about now, listen it was docked for two days. We only went out out and about on at one day I. Think July in my brain. I thought of it. Is like work and not like recreational. It went in my brain like that we've never been recreational boating. It exactly that is absolutely true. And we we will have to do that. We you know what would be amazing is if we could go recreational boating while watching look who's talking. Point out with just check all the boxes will then one of our husbands better be driving thinks. Oh, dear oh dear Yes. Well, we have been on about lots and lots and lots of you wrote in to tell us and you were right you were right. Are a well revisited fastback number three is good news. This is not a mess up. This is a triumph. Oh Yes And that triumph. Is heartbreak in the break room. Oh my gosh you guys. We discussed PM's Hunchine posture her sexy hand-knit sweater from her mom and her rejection by Jim in the break room scene of the merger. We thought it would make the perfect inspiration for a country song we asked you guys to send in your songs and. Oh my God. Holy Owoko, molly did you ever take that call to action? It has been such a delight enjoy for Jenin I. There are so many we haven't even made a dent. We haven't made a dent and and so we've been posting them on office ladies pod Our instagram and I just want you guys know side note. I saw one time someone commented like Oh. You know maybe your team posts, these things no team is just mean Jonah Oh. Yeah. There's no team behind our instagram guys. It's US and we are to lady show here. So. That's the way sometimes. Well we're not super active on it guys because you know MOMS and we're busy and anyway we are going to try to keep posting these every week because they are such joy in you guys they have meant so much to us. Thank you. Well. Eighty, I have a surprise what Okay. You Know Rhett Miller from the old ninety. Seven's is an ED friend of mine. I do and I'm I'm like really jealous and. It's just like Jonah I. Always think of you sort of the same level of darkness but then every once in a while, you have this like really cool friend and I'm like what the heck you have way. Cool. Friends Angela I one or two but. But right is definitely one of yours. He is I? Yes, I. Own it. He's one of my cool friends. Well, he sent in a version of heartbreak in the break room. And you guys. A Fan flippant tastic Sam, can you play the song? Again big. Tears your cheeks. This was not the reunion you've been dreaming of weeks. You heard the bell toll you did not know. heartbreak in gray. Dough pull your heart out to copy machine. This. Car Your dreams and the really suckling. Should have. Better. Then too. Sexy, sweater. Your throat will you float it out there but it didn't need flow. was playing world says to. Own. Y. ME. That's All. Over. Again. Break. Tuzon your cheeks. This was not the real. Been, dreaming of weeds will you heard about? You did not know full. Hard Way and the break. being. The way. I. Mean we were rocking out in our perspective closets the whole time it's so dang good I love it so much. So here's how I met rat. Retinue. Rain Somehow and rain brought rat to set. Well, rain loves music. I feel like he's he's like a real active. Oh? Yeah. Rains a whole music guy. He knows all the cool music people. So he brought. To set and they wanted to make this funny video. And Rain pulled me aside and said, will you do this video in Michael's office with me and Rhett Miller and I was like what? I was like wait. Is it some Guy Name, Rick? Miller or like Rhett Miller from the old ninety seven's that I make huge fan of he was like it's that one. Cool. Yeah. Play it. Cool. I'll go do this video with Rhett and Michael's office. It was so fun an asked her words Rhett said, Hey, if you ever want to come to a concert. Just, let me know and you can come. Well Lee and his brother Tyler are huge fans. So we all went and this kind of started our friendship. You guys rent is literally the nicest guy. Then I ended up doing a music video for his song good with God with Fred Arniston. I just love him and also I found that video that we made new on the office. Yes. It can we? Yes. Oh my gosh. So here's what we'll do. We will post his song and Office Ladies Pod and then in our stories will post. A link to this Youtube Video Oh my God. Amazing. I cannot wait to see that lady I feel like there's something you and I have never spoken about is that I guess we both been in music videos news. Wait. I didn't realize I mean I sort of remember you doing a music video, but I don't know I. Guess I forgot. I in the nineties was in a country music video for Clay Walker. Clay Walker anyone anyone I wore that remember the construction boots but like girls wore them like Jia hurts and. Tired remember this look. Yeah and he was like singing on a stage like on a ranch and then there was a bunch of people around just kind of like I was sitting kind of slapping my leg to the music. Like I'm a blur I'm a blip. It's like barely can see me guess what the song was. What very catching. It something like this. If I could make a million out of love and you I'd be a millionaire in a week or two. I'd be doing what I love and love and what I knew if I can make a million. I love this great song. Yes. So we were both in a music video i. mean you're you're a little bit more legitimately in the music video I mean I I was like an extra. Am I condoning boots it. All counts it. All counts. All right. Well, you guys you can see re perform four days a week on stage it. So that's stage and it stage and there's information on his twitter at Rhett Miller are h. e. m. i. l. l. e. r., and you can probably request heartbreak in the break room. Please Stu lose requested is Dale also the old ninety seven's just released their new album called twelfth which features the song turn off the TV and guess what speaking of Music Videos I make a little cameo in that till holy cow read I. Think you might need a few more office ladies in your videos. Oh I hope so. I filmed it at my house and I sent in the footage. It's really cool. You have to look for me I'm on one of the TV's it's like a little Easter Egg, but we love you. Thank. You so much rat well, John I think we should take a little break and then come back and play our interview with Dave Rodgers I love it, and then after our interview with Dave, we will break down. All those things that we missed all of our second drinks. It's finally fall. Yes. Sweater weather sweater weather. Well, and I always like to get a few new pieces each year and I am currently obsessed with read up thread is the world's largest online thrift store and you can get up to ninety percent off the estimated retail. It's amazing. It's so good. You guys there's over forty five thousand brands of women's and kids gathering handbags, shoes, and are at a fraction of the price they have stuff from Zara made well J. crew and there's always new stuff coming. In and one of my favorite things about Angela is if you are on a budget if you're trying to make yourself not overspend with the online shopping, they have a little ticker and you can say do just don't show me anything over twenty dollars. I don't WanNa see it, and then just click on all this stuff you can afford yet loved that get the styles you love at a fraction of the price you'll look and feel good with read up and for office ladies listeners here's an exclusive. Just. For you get an extra thirty percent off your first order at threat up dot com slash office ladies. That's T. H. R. E. D. UP DOT COM slash office ladies for thirty percent off your first order threat up dot com slash office ladies for an extra thirty percent off today terms apply lady I know that you and Josh like Whiskey can't we do well league this scheme from a friend it's called screwball peanut butter whiskey I'm sorry. Yes you have to try it. It's made by husband and wife team is made with American whiskey and peanut butter flavor, and it's tastes like savory and creamy. It's a little sweet. It's this perfect combination. Okay. We have got to try this. Okay. You can put it over ice I want to give you a suggestion. Maybe add a little to your coffee or do a scoop of ice cream import. A little on top while now you're talking plus through screw balls screw covid nineteen campaign. The founders have donated to several organizations including two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to the United States bartender guilt foundations, bartender emergency assistance program, and one hundred thousand dollars to children of restaurant employees, Geno. We have so many friends that are in the restaurant industry and I'm just I just love they're giving back screwball the. And most awarded peanut butter whiskey is now available near you at seventy proof. Enjoy it nate on the rocks or in your favorite cocktail pickups group all at your local store or get it delivered today ready to Hashtag. Get screwed. Go to screwball Whiskey DOT COM for more INFO and click on by now please drink responsibly advertisement by screwball spirits. San Diego California whiskey with natural flavors thirty five percent alcohol by volume. Dave Rogers thank you so much. We are so delighted to see you. I'm so excited to see you guys. It's been a little while feel like I just saw you yesterday I watched the show constantly and I've spent probably more time watching you guys than anybody else in the universe. Way Dave you still watch the show even though you edited the show and had to watch the show in great detail for like ten years of your life you can still stomach watching it. Yeah, there's still a long. I watch a lot of indication because it's on. Like I don't seek it out but like you know even when you're scrolling the guide on your TV, it's like Oh office I clip to see what episode it is in inevitably just get sucked in. It's amazing though have so many kids watch the show. Now my nephews are tended eight and and they watch the show they love it and they came to visit the set. They have no recollection visiting the set or anything I'm like I have pictures of you guys. I had to throw you off the set. You were running around and diving on the floor. You know Dave I stole the show Bible when the show wrapped but I think you are walking show Bible I think you. Are The show Bible in human form. I don't think there's anyone who knows more about the details of our show than you. So we're really excited you're here that's a lot of pressure I gotta say at one point I know the show better than anybody but it's been a few years I. See I see now like Trivia questions and just what fans right and I'm like Oh God Yeah I. Don't remember that I've been check on that and stuff like that. Well, the fans are super excited. You're here Dave and they send in tons and tons of questions for you and we cannot wait to just dive into it I'm excited. Should we do a deep dive with Dave Rodgers Deep We'll the first thing we always like to ask people how did they come to get their job on the office? Worked as an assistant editor in television for longtime I started on Seinfeld and then after that, I did a show called the newsradio No newsradio eleven newsradio. I. Cut the clip show first Seinfeld. So have you ever watched the hour long clip show that aired right before the series finale that was my first solo editing credit than it. newsradio is an assistant editor but I started editing as well. But the line producer was a man by the name of Kent Zoo born, AC? Yeah. So Kent was Kent. Was Line producer in we always stayed in touch in worked on other projects with him, and then at some point I I was back at Seinfeld I was working on all the extras for the DVD's can send me an email to hey, I've got a series for you. Take a look. Here's the pilot I. Think it'd be a good fit. The show rumor Greg Daniels to sit okay I watched the pilot and I was like and I hadn't seen the British version of the show I hadn't. I hadn't watched the British version or anything like that I was coming in completely fresh and I watched the pilot and I was like my God just the way his relationship was so cringe. Just relationship especially with with the you. At the beginning with the messages and and. Just the way he would, he would talk to you and everything like that. Now, we can turn on a dime. You're like, you know just even in that seed with the with the salary. Yeah. We could all use a raise and he's like not today Pam, not today and. I just. I was like Oh my God. So I met with Greg I think I met him at the set. You know I think they were writing their offices there. So I was the original building down down off Las Vegas, Jefferson is the season one location. Yeah. Yeah. We just we just sat outside and talk to just about our philosophies. Greg is philosophies on editing in shows and things like that and. I just think I really understood the characters right away. I said I could see Dwight having a battle, start the lactic of Viper on his desk like Star Trek was to mainstream and cool for. Dwight. Like we were you did you plant the C for Battle Star Galactica for Dwight as a character I do take that I have been credited with. Oh my gosh, and then at about the time like season one. Season Two I think the new GALACTICA had started airing. So that's that's really kind of you know came together. You know the final episode that I directed the penultimate episode Dwight Hangs Eight galactica model in his. In his office and he even says things about a little Philip. He's like he looks at the Galactic of the same way I do and you know it's great it just all kind of came together. Then I got to got to deal with battle star. GALACTICA. Well, this is a deep dive. Man I didn't even know there was an old versus new, Galactica. Loop I am disappointed in owner I'm release a day. Right now oh, my God I was just GonNa say so I met with Greg and that was it. We just we just hit it off and he's like all right come on board. So that was it and then I started. My first day. There was the first day of shooting diversity day and. That was it I started editing on diversity day and I tweaked the pilot a little bit but it was. Katherine him off who who edited the pilot and she did she did an amazing job on that and so I I just came We changed a couple things for for broadcast very slightly, but I started from from a diversity day to the finale. Okay well, listen a lot of fans wanted to know about your process date like when you sit down to start editing an episode. What's the first thing you do when? Like when you get all of the footage from an episode? How many hours of footage do you get? How do you organize the footage I? Mean how do you begin to build an episode? There's a couple of different ways that. I would you know start? Attacking. As. We would say one wasted to just start watching dailies just start watching the footage and. I'll just watch takes and I I may write down notes and sometimes I'll just you know just scribble little things like, oh, I like this pam reaction are all this was great. You know we got the shot on on Angela or Kevin or you know whatever was And then other times I like as I'm watching if I see something like that, take a Lotta time takes a few takes to really get in but sometimes you know you get that magic I take two little face but then I'll just throw it into the the the time line and I'll I'll lay it in and then it's a question of like, okay. What beats this what what part is better because you can lay in a whole take all right now I'm GonNa, take it even line by line and just see what beats this. What's you know is there any takes better better? and. Then you're you're looking for reactions in your looking for even all to jokes, things like that. But a lot of times you know there's a natural flow to a take. So you you get it. You you lay it in you know large portions we don't cross takes. It's just like Oh this is it there they hit in their rolling you know and sometimes. You know some of the things we would do is a you know if there's a reaction that slow or something like that on you know we're one angled and we go to the other we can pull pull stuff up or or if there was a pause in dialogue I, can come to a reaction and I can bring the audio in a little earlier just. To pace things up a little bit but but overall, just you know just looking what are the what's the best hake? What's funny? What makes me laugh and that's you know that's what I go with I remember being on set in we would take that felt fantastic like we were in the groove and then and then whoever the director was or would say. Oh circle that one VEDA. So you would get those from. Beta right like you would get all of those documents like this was Greg's favourite take of the scene and did you use that? Yeah a lot of times I mean it was talk sometimes the director was L. circled at circle this, but it's like a seven minute take and you know they might have. Like circle this like Dwight said this here this lied and you know the Director was Oh that was good. So you know you don't know you use it as a guide and see what what did they like but sometimes, we didn't get the specific information of. What what exactly did they like in that take 'cause you know listen one of the hardest things of cutting the show and I and I say this with all honesty was. We had an embarrassment of riches like a lot of times you like it's better and sometimes it was like performance. You know like this performance is great. This is great. It's a little different. Sometimes. You know this joke is great or sometimes you know this joke is great and you different jokes you know we had the candy bag where we would have all these alz and things like that. You know I know that we would spend one week shooting the episode. How long did you have to edit an episode? Betters don't have production hours we wouldn't come in like five am or six am to get makeup and hair and all that we role in ten ten thirty. You know maybe settle in with a good game call of duty then we start attacking the dailies. But then you're there until like midnight or ten o'clock at night. Yeah. As we get deeper into the series that if we needed to lock in episode or get a network cut out, there were some there were some late late nights in a Lotta Times. You know after let's say after we finished shooting on a Friday, it might be done the next Thursday or Friday But then as the season would would build up like you're doing assemblies but you're also doing network cuts. You're doing you know producers cuts in your locking things. So it would build up were working on multiple episodes in everything would kinda slow down a little bit. You know the just like, okay it's GonNa be a little bit of a delay on this assembly here this director's cut, but we managed managed to get everything done on time. So that was that was a good thing I feel like our sound engineer Sam keever right now is listening be like, Oh, I know Oh, I know. Because I. Do we chat for for a bit and Sam has to go through all of it? I think something people don't realize Dave is it's like you just would get footage and then you edit it and it's done you edit and you give it to the director who gives you notes and then you re edit it and give it to the producer who gives you notes, and then you guys would have to turn it into the studio and into the network and people are constantly giving. You notes on these different cuts how many different cuts wouldn't episode go through project five cuts per episode but sometimes more sometimes, we'd work scenes you know. Eventually we would build the assembly and that means we would build everything that was it and a lot of times we would have like I. I would say somewhere like sixty hours of footage. I mean you guys would shoot for the you know shoot a week. He's like five days like twelve hours. Of, footage and. Know the assistant editors were great because they would you know we were shoot on video and a Lotta Times remember we we would roll in between takes the camera would still be rolling. We wouldn't call cotton action because that would take longer and so the assistance would cut that stuff out would consolidate the footage, get it ready for us but it was still A lot of hours of footage to go through and then go to the director. The director would swap takes and they would change some things timing and you know they make some trims and make it a little tighter shorter than. It would go to the producers and we'd go to go to the writers or Greg would look at it right away and a lot of times greg would say you know either you know why don't you do your own now so I would take the best things from the assembly in the best things from the director's cut make my own cut take some time now a little bit too. Sometimes. The writers would have some notes. They would say, hey, why don't you try this or do this and I say if I liked it, I would do it if and put it in the cloud. If I didn't like it, I might do it and just have it as an. Just to show them to show Greg I could say like this is why I didn't do this I felt like this was better but here it is it's easy to swap inter out there we go to greg he would we do you know what was called the Network Cut Senate to the network they would give notes Would go back again and we would we would lock the show, but it was very collaborative with everybody off to say from. From the directors, the producers, the writers, the studio, and the network. We were all just trying to the show I remember being on set and there'd be times where Greg would say, hey, can we get dave rogers onset because they were shooting a scene and they needed you your editors I on the set. because. They wanted your opinion about okay. We're shooting at this way. Is it going to work in editing and you would come down to set and I always on that? Really Fascinating Greg always talks about how the brought all the world's together like he brought writers onto. Writers were actors you know was it was nice that he brought editors onto the set you know. So I knew the cast and the crew very well it's great that we were all filming the same area. Greg would say, Hey, can you come in look at this? You know sometimes it was about continuity will things tracking editing sometimes it was just about like this will shot cut if we do this and we shoot from this angle will this is something that we're gonNA shoot later so It wasn't wasn't that often that he would. You know me sometimes, it was just to confirm something that he already had a thought on and so yeah, that'll work that'll work. I. Mean that was it. But everybody kind of knew what they were doing I mean we had you know I can't say enough about Randall Einhorn and Matt. Zone we had fantastic. You know camera guys in I mean the whole crew was just really think everybody just loved being there. Loved the show that everybody's working really hard. To make everything everything works really well, it really did it. I really did well, I wanted to say Dave not on a single one of my other projects since I left the office have I ever met the editors exactly I have. Them I don't know them. I tried to kind of pop into the edit base. The way we used to come and pop into yours and they seem confused. The producers of the shows that I've done that have been not warm to that. It's like they don't want the actor to see the editing process they don't want the actors. I don't know it's like as if we're going to go in there and lose our shit because we saw a scene to. Uncut in its finished. Version I duNno I guess what I'm saying is just that. The relationship that we had. I mean I just I I have never seen a show runner facilitate that kind of warmth and inclusion with a crew and cast and writing staff the way Greg. Did I think a lot of editors and producers are afraid of actors coming into the Edit Bay for what you said like Oh, if something's on cod or not ready and then they you know they complain or the we have to you know and there's that fear of like what we have to reshoot because some diva actors Dino says you have to do this or something you know for us I think it's important to say where our editors were first of all, we were right there on the first floor like where Michael Scott's. Parking spot is my debate was on the other side of of that side. Pretzel, Day Pretzel, day they were all down your hallway Michael. Scott Paper Company was our our bathroom. Doorway there you know those were yeah. We're right down the hall from Caffeine Corner. So anytime, we shot like at the warehouse or in the parking lot you know the cast would would come in and hang out and we always listened wait I always love going to set but it was always great having you guys come in. Am I love showing you guys as to go take a look at this and see this. And I think also listen I think editors, Greg said, something he's like you're really like the gatekeeper because I see stuff before anybody else would. And so I could communicate especially you know you've actors that are you know if they're painted this work or you know when you have things, you know everybody had different things that their character was doing to like you can see the evolution of Pam or the evolution of Angela. So if I could communicate, hey, this this romantic seem that you played today was really good. It was really romantic and really funny you know I can say like Oh this was you know I can communicate that to you. There's no there's no secrets about trying to hide anything and I think it's it's good to to let the cast. No. So those I, think that was kind of the relationship that we had. We were always. Welcoming I love when you guys would hang out like between takes just sit on the couch and. Just chat away I know gin and I have talked about this. We have so many memories of multiple members of the cast just piling in on your that black leather sofas. On it and you would show all these different takes and we'd be howling with laughter and Greg would sometimes be like, Hey, which one did you like we're we're trying to decide between these two which I think is really unheard of right that actually brings up a good point. People have asked the mythology of Daniels does he ab things a lot? Does he have different versions and it's like, yes, he does. Being is kind of like it's. It's kind of like going to the doctor when you when you have those things on your is like okay is this better or is this better? Better or is this? Minimal. It's such a difference and so gregory we would. We would always like have especially like in the early seasons. You know the pilots season one you know he would. He would always you know Wanna see things like different versions of things. He'd want to show these people. So you know I would be like, Oh let's bring in the writers but then he wanted like a wider array of people. So he would talk to the cast he would show them things he would bring in like the Real Accounting Department for the show he wanted like people who were like non creatives so to speak to. Look at it and I remember we were editing season one. We were out of our out of the stages where we were at out of that building, and we were like ending some e office suite and there were just other people in the building working and he had brought like a cleaning lady shoe salesman and someone else to watch diversity day like what do. You think of this what do you think of it like? Yeah. Good. Good. You know he wanted to know if the slap at the beginning when Mindy Slap Steve was too harsh she he didn't know you know certain jokes were were playing and things like that. So yeah, he would always WanNa see you know what was the what was the better version and? Really, get a sense of You know he wanted to pull people in in, find out what what people thought. Now I don't know if you guys remember the main title music, but he went out to the cast is like, Hey, pitch songs. So everybody pitched songs and then got narrowed down I had to cut like twenty one different versions of the main title. You had a saw. You had a saw. This was because I had to cut the it wasn't like could just laid the song in I had to cut the picture to the to the song. Yeah. Sorry. Dave. Jonkers is remember he had a good song by Sloan that was almost You know that was a contender, a lot of lot of good songs but ultimately, we went with the first song that we got submitted to us from a composer. Hey, which was the theme as we all know it to the office and. I pitched modest mouse like all float on. Okay. Do you remember that Song Yeah yes? Being used by like the CW or something like it was it was Oh, my gosh. Dave. You are just like a walking treasurer. Do you remember any other scenes that you guys that you tried multiple versions of wool for example, I know that there was that the parking lot proposal between Jim and Pam for example, there was a big debate about whether or not. We should hear the audio or not hear the audio did you have to cut two versions of that Gene Holland cut that he deemed cut? We two versions of that of that seem one where you would hear the audio and one where you did it and we left the mix that night. and. One that was going in was the one without audio. And Greg woke up the next morning and changed his mind and that you know, and that's the one that winners ultimately you know and somebody sale was it wouldn't have been a bolder choice to you know to not hear it. But again, I think there's something with the satisfaction of the audience of wanting wanting to hear this you know with all the you still get a sense of with all the noise in the chaos of the trucks going by the rain and things like bad that it still feels. Distant in dirty it's not. You know this you know perfectly cinematic momento. Ultimately, I think that's what it is and it turned out to be that with all the chaos going on. There was actually they were supposed to destroy. The lack of the house was supposed to destroy the version without the sound like we didn't want it accidentally ending up anywhere and they didn't it almost ended up on the DVDs. Oh yeah and jake oust who was our associate producer at that time? was like wait a minute. And that was always a huge problem that it almost made it onto the DVD official episode you know because they someone grabbed the wrong master but I yeah that was that was one of those things that were where we had different versions listed there there were you know different versions of the shows that we've locked there there was there was one episode lice was one of these episodes where I think I started editing it and then Claire Scanlon was finishing it and I was thinking I was directing and that's why I didn't. I didn't lock the episode and then I went to the mix and I realized like the show just ended at the end of the episode with Meredith. Bald. Meredith taking. You know asking Pam to go get a drink and I was like wait what what happened to the Bar Bar Sharing a moment at Sydney and so I I, am after the mix I came back to work and. you know. What what happened to the end of the episode it goes on did you miss that I go? Yeah. I kinda did he goes yes. Some other other people do too. Well, why don't you take a look and see I I just felt like there was some stuff that was too long and I I think I could make some tiny trims and and still be able to squeeze that in not really lose too much and that's what I did I mean this was a locked episode ready to ready to be delivered Anna we changed it I I did a new version at the ending I'd have to look to see exactly where I took out a little bit of air or what what pieces I lost but I felt like it was a better episode to see Meredith and in Pam bonding at those warm. Thank you from me personally doing that scene in the bar was one of my favorite moments on the show and I just think I would have been so heartbroken. If that had not made it. When you're welcome I, mean listen it was not it again it was just a choice originally like, Oh, I think we you know it was still a nice ending before but I think that this really brought it to to even a nice of a better place at the end I remember the writer Nikki Schwartz. Had A you know she was homesick and she got a DVD that said locked. You know episodes wait a minute I already got the locked episode. She watched it and she she was so happy to see that scene back in there too. She didn't realize what had happened and I was like, yeah, that was the one time where I really unlocked something and and and you know made a change like that. Well, I want to ask you about improvisation what was it like for you to deal with all of our improvisation? Has An editor. It was great there. There's no difference between improvisation or scripted stuff. And whatever was funniest one I mean that was it. If something if someone said something funny I never cared who wrote a joke you know I never there was never anything like this person wrote this or this wrote this like I didn't. So whenever was whether it was line that was written in the script whether it was something a writer pitched on the set or whether it was something actor just came up with you know whatever was the funniest is what? What we would end up putting into the cut who improvise the most stave or who are some of the people who improvise most often all of you guys I. Think once we got comfortable with especially once we shot the takes that we needed I. Think I felt like all of you guys were were the best improvisers and you can see when when we'd get guests cast come in who could improvise in who you know who's not quite as could age. To do it but I was always impressed I mean anybody would you know just the way you would react to someone else throwing something new at you? was always impressive I felt like everybody just had the chops. They were all ready to go. I, think of anything sometimes people would crack up listen I. Have I have you know the audition tapes and the screen tests and there's a screen I don't even think this is on the DVD's but there's there's one of of Steve Corral in Rainn Wilson and. It's so funny. It's it's like an Improv about. Dwight you know Michael is saying, Dwight, have you been using my office when I'm not there Dwight's like no, I haven't. Because someone is my coffee mug. He's like I. Don't think it was. Because it was chocolate milk in it and. And just. He's you're the only one who drinks tropical rain is cracking like Steve, managed to break rain for a couple seconds and it just the audition during the audition chemistry tests and it's just beautiful. But you can see like they're so good right away like just the way Steve is giving glances to the camera and just the way he's. He's we have a good relationship. We're friendly and rain goes best friends and Michael's will. Friendly and it's just like, wow, just right out of the Gecko these guys just have it. You know there's some special. Now we have a fan question that I think people are going to be really excited to hear about they wanted to know if you had any go to cast members when you need a reaction. To Leslie Anytime I could get you know Stanley. Given an IRA all. That was always fantastic phyllis. I'M GONNA. Listen I'm a I'm a fan of everybody. So is like whoever? Whoever was appropriate Kevin you know There were times actually this is kind of an interesting saying. which isn't so much going to reaction shop but you we do this kind of thing. that. started. We wouldn't do too often at first where somebody would say something Kenilworth pushing a little than they say something again, the camera would push in a lot and I think I feel like the cameras love this like kind of trick we would do but they started doing it a lot very early and. Often and it was like wait nothing has substantiated that like it hasn't earned this like in the scene and I remember one time Tevin saying something and you're standing next to him and what I can't remember exactly now what it was but he said something offensive and the camera pushes in it like cropped Angela out and I was like Whoa Whoa whoa and I shouldn't luckily there was another take it didn't and it's like, yeah, because you wanna see Angela's reaction. She standing there reacting it. Wasn't even so much a payoff as a bonus. Do you know what I mean like his line was funny but to see her actually cringe from it at the in in real time like that's what's like we don't WanNa lose that kind of thing on the show. So I said guys let's I just showed some examples as just be aware of this a lot of times when you have two people on the same plane, we don't WanNa lose you know what other? People are doing because reacting is acting like we're we're getting some gold here like this is, what's he say something finding but her reaction is equally as funny if not even funnier and it enhances the whole scene well to be fair Angeles very tiny and it must be hard to hold her in a shot with some of these variants, all actors on Earth. So we did that a lot of tall actors like all these I've said you know rain was a super tall. John. was like a giant. Yeah Brian. So tall. White Angela big moments. He's seated I'm standing. So Dave another thing that we got a lot of male about people are very curious to know what were the most challenging aspects of editing the office. The challenging challenging things for editing was just always getting a lot of footage. Sometimes the cameras are moving all over the place and you know because they're they're just zipping around. It's like when you have a big bullpen seen and it's like, okay, we're catching this person this person it's not the cameras aren't static that was part of the joy of our show is that they would move around and find things, and sometimes they would be intentionally late and you know to to really feel like that they were working like a documentary I mean that was challenging. The chaos of a of stress relief I you know the opening for that deem cut deny both cut the episode but but he caught the, you know the fire people always love the the fire stress relief in a you know to me like that's a tour de force seeing all the stuff, all the action and signal. Light Michael trying to throw a chair out the window. There's Kevin throwing it share at the vending machines and just the fireworks going off and things like that, and just you know just the pacing of it like that's an exciting thing the finale was tough to cut the having there was so much pressure on the finale Claire Scanlon split cutting the finale, and she cut the first half and I cut the second half and then Greg did something very radical after he saw the assembly, he's like all right you guys switch. And he put me on the first half and then Clare on the second half. So I did like a Polish past with Greg on the first half in Clare did the second half in end and then we combine them we still like worked on stuff in the end she worked on stuff in the beginning but it was really interesting. We were like this is crazy like I'm so familiar with this. Footage. And she's so familiar with this but it actually made a lot of sense and especially having Clare I think really do a pass on some of the more sentimental stuff in the end. You know like her sensibilities like to really find some stuff there that maybe I didn't see for me to attack some of the more bachelor party male bonding stuff you know, I think Greg Greg Smart. Did you take anything from the set when we wrapped. So I have two things that I took this is. The GALACTICA That white hung up as I said Oh huge Galactica fan and I chose the original model when I got to as the director of a arm got to choose what which galactic, which version of the Galactica we would. We would use in rain side for. Mason. David Galactico loves you. Are Rainn Wilson White. DOTS. So I, I have this GALACTICO. This is the one that Philip looks at the galactic the same way. I do. So I have that and. I have saute. said that somebody took the signed from the lobby I have the backup one. So. This is this is the backup one. They would hang up I. Guess sometimes you know we did any kind of stunts era. We had something that could potentially get the sign messy. For, we needed to do anything on the fly where we had to build the wall. That was the back of one. Fantastic. Listen I could Gush I mean I love you guys, I. Love You. I love cats I i. hope that was I. think that was known on the on the set I was just such a fan and I always. Wanted. Your best stuff to come out into protect you guys to make it. Look funny when you know when whenever you guys did something to always show your your best not to make money. But to always show your best funniest performances in the also your most heartfelt I mean I just. I. Loved Anybody who came on the show you know I was I was a fan of when Rashida came on when Helms came on with Zach Woods I mean anybody even the new, even the new guys when they want Clarkin in Jake when they came on anybody who who became a part of the family I always. Wanted their best stuff to come out in the let them know when to reassure them. Hey, you guys are doing good work. You're doing good work. It's really funny. It's working now Dave, we loved you so much Dave. Thank you so much for coming today to talk to. This is so great. You have to come back I would love to come back anytime. All right. Dave. Okay, here's the thing about home security companies, most of them trap you with high prices and tricky contracts and have lousy customer service. So. While there are a lot of options out there there's only one that's a no brainer. Simply. Safe. simplisafe's got everything. You need to protect your home with none of the drawbacks of traditional home security. It's got sensors and cameras that blanket every room window and door tailored specifically for your home. You can set it up yourself under an hour. You just peel and stick the sensors exactly where you need them. There's no technician required and there's no contract no pushy sales guy no hidden. Fees and no fine print and it all starts at just fifteen dollars a month. But we're not the only ones who thinks simplisafe is great US news and World Report named it. The Best Overall Home Security of twenty twenty tries simplisafe today at simplisafe dot com slash office ladies you get free shipping and a sixty day risk-free trial. There's nothing to lose that's SIMPLISAFE DOT com slash office ladies. Are Right, we are back. Thank you dave again. Thank you I mean amazing. Amazing and we can't wait for you to come back. I mean I know he said that to you, but we are going to hold you to it. Well Angela. Where should we begin? I know where you want to begin. I need to desperately begin with Clementine Paddle Ford. Yes we called her clementine paddle, but we have come to learn that. Her name is pronounced Clementine. Yes and her close friends called her clem that was her nickname but guys I I hate to tell you this is not all we've learned about her we both listen to a podcast about her life. It's an amazing podcast I called fierce. Yeah. It tells the stories of forgotten women in history that changed the world and Clementine. Paulo Ford was their first episode. Yes. You can find it I. Think it's On iheart fierce fantastic podcast series. So we listen to that and then I read some fantastic articles about her one of the ones I loved was by Linda Rodriguez mic roby and is featured on mental floss dot com. It is so good. I might have to do a swipe up to it and and story Geno. It's really great. Tell us what you learn how I don't even know where to start John I. don't even know where to start. I'm so excited to talk about this woman first of all when you think about every sort of food blogger are someone who writes about food. In the world today she was the first she was the pioneer. Yes. Because she talked about the process of making food, not just how the food tasted when she ate it but she made it a point to go into the kitchens to go into people's homes and watch how they cook, and then she wrote about this in this like beautiful poetic storytelling kind of way that made it. Like just riveting it is one hundred percent the basis of food writing today. Yes. If you think of someone like Anthony Bourdain. Yes. CLEMENTINE started that type of genre. And what I love about her to John is that she never ever let anyone Identify who she could be or how she could do it. She was born in Manhattan Kansas she ended up in Manhattan New York she never took no for an answer she was traveling all over like writing about food and she couldn't get to all the places she wanted to fast enough. So she learned how to fly a plane yet fly yourself around I. thought that was so bad, ass. She went back to school when she was fifty, she went on a nuclear submarine to see how you feed that many sailors when she was sixty one years old. Incredible, such passion. She's an incredible woman you guys, and by the way she her article on Benny Honner is why Benny Hana blew up. It's why that restaurant became what it is and you guys she wrote a book it took twelve years to compile it all from all her travels and all her food experiences. It's called how America eats. I found one, my husband bought it for me and I'm getting it I'm. My Gosh. That's amazing. I'm so excited you guys. Thank you for indulging me on that whole. CLEMENTINE tangent. But since we discussed her during Benihana Christmas, we need to go over a few things we Miss Gina first off when Michael Enters riding the bike Christie G, Lauren S Collins, C. Sophia him just an L. and many many more wanted to know in the cold open Michael is writing a bike however in a future episode, there is a cold open where we learned that Michael Never learned how to ride a bike is this a continuity error? Does the show Bible say anything about Michael's bike riding abilities? Well, Angela I went to look this up in the show Bible I guess what? What? My Show? Bible. Only goes through season six. No. I didn't know this I'm slipping and I haven't incomplete show Bible. I'm so disappointed in myself I dealing and incomplete show. Bible. So what we gotta hit up Greg I did a little digging. Okay and it's true in season seven, episode five, the Sting Michael says. He can't ride a bike I think this was just A. Mistake it is a continuity error, but it is an error. This catches also part of an article on screen rant called Twenty five mistakes in the office that only true fans noticed. We have discussed some of them like some of the other ones they talk about is who really started at Thunder Mifflin I was it jim or Pam or the fact that Pam's mom changes. It also mentions what we did talk about in Benny. Honner Angela thing about your sister's like how many sisters do you really have? All that kind of stuff basically guys I just have to say good catch. Yeah. Well, there's GonNa be a few things. One of my favorites which will get to is that. You know the senator has a son when I meet him he has a son and we never see that kid again what happened yeah that's right out in the hey hey. Well, we also forgot to mention the whole runner with the bathrobes many Christmas. Remember in this episode corporate gives everybody a bathrobe, but toby doesn't get one Michael takes it away. So Toby spends the whole episode sort of pining away for a bathrobe finally in the end Pam gives him one but Angela a lot of people wrote in and wanted to know more about these robes for example, everyone wanted to know if we got one real life. We did not get that rope that row was a prop. We did however get a gift from our producers one year of a bathrobe Jenna. Yes like a blue Terry cloth bathrobe that said the office on it I still wear it. My dog ate a hole in the sleeve, but I won't give it up. So cozy I still have mine too. It's like really wearing a blanket. Well. One of my favorite scenes from this plotline is the scene where toby is in the kitchen. And he's talking to Kevin and he's sort of. He's just like stroking Kevin's robe like longingly wishing he had for yes. Exactly. Well, we had a fan catch from Brooke Beagle. In Benny Honner Christmas at fourteen minutes thirty two seconds. You can see a poster for happenings magazine right behind, Kevin is that a real local Scranton magazine? Yes happenings magazine was founded in nineteen, sixty nine, and its purpose was to encourage people to travel between Scranton and Wilkes Barre for different. Cultural. Events. And in two thousand and four, they even created an online version guys both the print version. An online version exists today you can find them today at happenings magazine P A dot com. See. Now I would love that I would check that out to see what was happening. You know maybe there's like a pumpkin patch or there's apple picking or you don't know you don't know what's happening I love local newsletters is subscribe to my town's local newsletter. My Grandmother wrote a column for the newspaper called around the town it was just stuff happening around the town it was just what was happening you know around the take home. Sounds very similar to happenings magazine Yes my grandmother probably would've loved happenings magazine okay. We'll John I would like to discuss a few deleted scenes that I think really gives us some fun information about some characters, oh go you know I love creeds. So I'M GONNA start with creed. So in convict, there is a deleted talking head were creed says that he's been to prison in fact, that's where he got his name creed was in prism. Meaning felt like creed is not his given name. It's just the name he got in prison. He doesn't go into it. We don't know why and then he goes on to say that he used to make a type of wine called Pruneau in the toilets and it's made a fruit sugar and catch up. And he really he really misses that wine. Bruno that actually made my stomach turn I know said, Ketchup. Is So disgusting I mean, it started with toilet and then it went full circle when you said. Up. Creed making, Puno. Well, this is interesting because that would be at odds with the Booze cruise deleted talking head in which creed admits. To being himself creed Bratton from the grassroots, but both of those talking heads were deleted. So I'm guess it doesn't matter. I think with creed nothing matters all bets are off he lives under a desk. In Toronto, we don't know where he lives. He's got multiple names identities and you know what's great about creed from the writer standpoint is they it didn't matter. Yes. Because you never know if creates telling the truth or not. It's such a fun character to write for So the other deleted scene, which is so good. Jonah You keep saying you have a new appreciation for the character of Ryan. Guess Wolfer me it's Phyllis I can't get enough of her. So there is this deleted moment between Pam and Phyllis and the convict Michael has locked everyone in the conference room and in the deleted scenes, there's a real passage of time doesn't happen in the episode I guess we just didn't. Enough time you know in the twenty one minutes and thirty seconds that we get like what David was saying yes. So they have to really truncated. This great scene were Phyllis showing PM her engagement ring and Jenna. It's not a cluster. It's not a cluster. With it, we called it. It's not a cluster it is an enormous marquee. Engagement ring huge marquee diamond, and in fact, she brags to Pam. You know this is the most expensive type of diamond and Bob wanted to get me even bicker one. This makes so much more sense in that theory I seen when she tells my goal that she's engaged. She had that little cluster on her finger. They did not have her ring yet dot is that is clearly and it makes sense that she would have a bail diamond from Bob Vance of Vance refrigeration he yes oh. Oh I wish they'd kept that in. Yeah in it's really fun. It's really cute. She's so so proud of it. All, right. We'll Angeles now. People. Have a great with us. What do we do about our assessment of wishy Washy Jim? Oh, well, I thought that might be coming crystal Nichols wrote in to say I don't think Jim is wishy washy nor does he oh pam an explanation about Karen Amy Durham Agrees Pam flirted with Jim and established intimacy with him for seasons one through three. But then always went home to Roy oh well that's there's some truth there Brunton thinks that there are times when Jim is downright mean or disrespectful and doesn't think that he should always. Be called a nice guy. But Emily Harris Defense Jim by saying he is making an effort to be friends with Pam while not crossing the line into flirtation. He likewise doesn't lay it on thick with Karen in front of Pam respect but since Pam kept Jim on the hook for so long he's right not to do the same thing to Pam in return I think it's just people are pointing out Pam started wishy washy pm her wishy washiness to me was like another level because she was engaged in living with someone and. I know her heart was like falling for Jim and she was having sort of almost like this emotional affair. But she was one hundred percent having an emotional affair. Yeah. Exactly and then also trying. To figure out like well, I've put so much time in with Roy. So she was definitely doing all this waffling. and. Then I don't know it's it's it's really hard. This is these star crossed lovers story. Well, we have a final thought. Okay. From Randall, Robertson who wrote this? I'm coming to the defense of Jim being wishy washy. Don't you ladies remember young love. Pam was gyms everything. He told her he loved her and then kissed her and she kissed him back. She then told him. She was GONNA marry Roy. Pam Tour Gyms heart into a million pieces then put those pieces in a shredder behind her desk. Karen is a rebound, and now he has to be in the same space as the woman who put him in his heartbroken state. When you have no heart to give anyone all you get is wishy washy Randall Robertson that was amazing and it's true. We were too hard on Jim Randall that last line when you have no heart to give anyone all you get as wishy washy. Well, there was a little bit of debate about whether or not toby. Oscar or if he had Oscars permission to disclose he was gay in the gay witch hunt at. We were giving toby a lot of grief about this for member. Yes. says. A. Percent Oscar outed Oscar to which Caitlin men and. Both point out at the end of Toby and Michael's conversation toby says, her obviously hopes he can count on your discretion which they think sort of implies that Oscar gave Toby permission to tell Michael. So toby saying. Oscar hopes he can count on you to be discreet. I guess that maybe filling in the blanks toby said to Oscar do you mind if I share this information with Michael to which Oscar said? Yes but please ask him I. would appreciate his discretion. I don't buy it. I don't think Oscar, what truth Michael With anything about his personal life you know what even more I think toby has to be like, okay. Let's say I do have Oscars permission. Is this still the conversation I should have with Michael. I. Mean he kind of has to have the conversation right because he has to speak to Michael about his behavior. Well Gosh now, I think they're now I think they're right. More you're talking now I'm like Oh. Oh Yeah. Toby had to say something and Oscar was like, okay. Well, if you tell them, it's okay. Okay. I see it I see it well listen I wanted to throw it a couple of tidbits that people sent in that I found really fun and interesting. These are both references to the convention episode. So first off Joe Sir Beira told us the president of the University of Scranton used ain't no party like a Scranton party in his commencement addresses and that it has become the unofficial motto of the University of Scranton. And, of course, the convention is the episode where we I hear that. That's fantastic. Okay. So second, you remember the scene where Michael Meets Jerome Bettis, the football player, and he thinks that he has the nickname the bus because he always travelled by bus and he's afraid to fly bright. But of course, the reason he has that nickname is because people would pile on top of him and he would just keep moving right. He could carry a bunch of people right on the football field yes. Yes. Exactly. So a bunch of people wrote in Carly Mitchell Kyle Gansler and Paul Marshall All said, Michael got his NFL members mixed up John Madden was known for being afraid to fly and only took the bus two games. But did not have the nickname the bus. But that is a true thing about John Madden. Oh, I didn't know that. Okay. So I looked this up and I found an article from the L. A. Times. It's from July of Nineteen eighty-eight. This is what it says. It says there are three, thousand, seven, hundred and fifty buses in the Greyhound Line trailways fleet but only one is famous that one is called the madden cruiser. It is the vehicle in which John Madden one of the nation's best known football analysts and broadcasters rides around the country from game to game. It says that he's no longer willing to fly because he suffers from claustrophobia and he has not boarded a plane since nineteen seventy, nine. Wow I wonder if that's still the case I don't do it said he used to travel by train but he had more freedom. Traveling by bus. So Yeah. So this is classic Michael where he had one part one sort of like story from one football player mixing with another one. Yes, exactly. Well, here's something crazy. Angela I. Don't know how he gets around today, but this bus was on display at the pro football hall of fame as recently as two thousand eighteen like you could tour it. was like the Lisa Marie plane at Graceland. Oh Yeah. I've been degree slant I have to. Yeah why didn't go inside? I just saw o inside while there was a really long line. Were you thinking there wouldn't be I was in my twenties I was driving cross country. I was like wait. Elvis. Presley. Lives near here. Let's go see. Oh. Yeah. This was when I was a kid. My mom would find all these staycationing for us to go on that were in driving distance of Saint Louis. So one year we drove to Memphis and we toured. F-. I remember we went to museum and we saw this very interesting exhibit on King. Tut. And the other thing we did was we toured graceland. So we we planned it all out. I was driving with a girlfriend of mine because we were driving cross country and she was moving and. We pulled in there was a huge line. But in the parking lot was the plane. So I saw the plane, they haven't been INCI graceland. Oh in your twenties when you plan nothing you guys. All right. Exactly well, I saw that we got a lot of male about grief counseling and our bird tragedies we talked about. Yes. So many people witnessed terrible bird tragedies the same week as our podcast I know it was kind of wild. Wasn't it? Yes is pretty wild. So this one really got me, Kayla lawless wrote in and said, she hit a bird with her car while listening to the podcast for grief, counseling Oh, my God that's the first time. She's ever hit bird in her life and she was listening to us. Talk about a bird funeral and she had heard. Like God I don't know how to feel about. Him So sorry, you know what's weird. I am not seeing any more bird deaths are you know it's like it's too hot and they're just like. Yeah my problem now is mosquitoes. John I got eaten up the other night, the ads and I are sitting in like comparing notes like four on this leg. Oh, I have to over here. I got this amazing candle. That's like all natural. Are you GonNa get me one or are you going to get your bff one? Does it keep mosquitoes away? Yes, and it's in a little bucket with a handle so like You know because you move around outside. So I just move it with us and keep it nearby and it seems to be working on. One all right I'll send you on my friends growing up my ozzy friends growing up would always say all the Maasais Arou-. Same anymore. Most East the Moses. Than Tikhon. Were you like wait a second John Are you from Australia. Crap. Most, these are out on the malls as well. Before we go guys I want you to know that sense. Maybe F- F Jenna did not know what Frisbee Golf was otherwise known as Froth. Golfing? Guess what I've decided to do. I'M GONNA have an office ladies Frisbee. No Yeah and you know because I love to chunk it I'm Gonna I'm GonNa have him put chunk it on it. What a double trolling don't controlling it's a chunk it Frisbee and then we've got to go fro thing. Okay, we can socially distance. Froth Lady. We can, and I would love to. We have a lot of assignments. We have to drink Rosa and watch Likud's talking us. We have to go on a boat at some point and we have to froth. We've froth with our chunk office ladies. Frisbee. Okay highlight the wobble Bobby Szabo Boban I'll be comment while eight. How can you do that but you can't like even attempt an Australian accent. Oh say what she's saying. She's talking about some kind of Avi lobbies. Mosquito almost. MABASO zombies. How about Emma. Well. Thank you guys for sending all your questions. We had a really fun time going through those. We hope you like that episode today and thank you so much today, Rogers. That was such a fun interview, and we will keep posting your heart breaks in the break room look for them over on office ladies pod on Instagram. Yes. You guys were to try to post more because you're also sending in really fun. Fan are all kinds of things. So we're going to step it up. Yes. We will step it up. And Next week is business school. K Pam's art show Hams art show. Talk about a heartbreaker well, as we leave you today I really WanNa play this song you know I love Blue Grass bluegrass version of heartbreak in the break room from djazair from Harrisonburg Virginia. Thank you. J. C. You guys next week. Next week okay. Kids suspend your disbelief pretended being some by the vivacious Jenna Fischer or as the Amish say, Miss Jobe Nabi. Mama's sexy sweater. Comapny. BE Slow trade new. Feeling money. Just like three on hill as. Bray. Great groom mud. Myth. heartbreak. Pimple every one kid. I'll drown. Nixed Berry Yogurt and it's all the on TV. Please come back. Dead. Misery. Again. It's hard. It's hard. Off. Gray. Rank. Thank you for listening to office babies office. Fleet is produced by Air Wolf Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey our producer is cody Fisher. Our sound engineer is Sam Kiefer and our associate producer is Ainsley Buco. Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Read Bratton for Ad Free Versions of office ladies. GO TO STITCHER PREMIUM DOT COM for a free one-month trial stitcher premium use code office.

Dave Jenna Fischer Angela Greg Greg Smart editor Jonah Oh Michael Scott producer director Dave Rogers Jenna John Dwight US Rhett Miller writer Pam DOT COM Dave Rodgers Greg Daniels malaria
162 Cirrus SR22 Crashes on an Instrument Approach after Unnecessary Fuel Stop + GA News

Aviation News Talk podcast

1:08:26 hr | 11 months ago

162 Cirrus SR22 Crashes on an Instrument Approach after Unnecessary Fuel Stop + GA News

"Allow again, and what aviation news talk a weekly show with relevant news and flying tips for pilots and student pilots to keep you safe I'm extra Scott for a main topic. Today we'll talk about a fatal sears plane crash that happened just over a week ago in the subtle mistake that the instrument pilot appears to have made. Also, tell you about my first airline trip since February in what I was doing at serious in Knoxville last week. Last week in episode one, sixty one we talked with Flying Magazine Senior Editor Rob Mark for an update on the Kobe. Bryant crash and discuss aviation stories of the weird. So if you didn't hear that fun show, you may WANNA check out at aviation news talk dot com slash one, six one. And at the nation is talk podcast is new to you in whatever you're using to listen to us. Now, just click on the subscribe button so that new episodes will download for free each week and he won't miss any future shows. This week in the news there maybe another extension from the FAA for flight reviews, but it probably still won't apply to you. We'll tell you why. Mooney is under new ownership again, and finally we know the story of a fellow who tried to set a Guinness World record using a Skyhawk baseballs. All this more and the news starts now. From Alpa Dot. Org Aviation groups seeking new pandemic relief from FAA. APA and six other aviation organizations asked the FAA to grant pilots and flight instructors. New two-month grace periods for meeting proficiency medical and certification deadlines that would be impractical to comply with between now and December twenty twenty because of the coronavirus pandemic, the regulatory relief now in place under an amended s far that special federal aviation regulation applies to many pilots facing compliance deadlines through September thirtieth making further action necessary as the pandemic wears on. The aviation organizations proposal would include relief for flight instructors who certificates expire in October November or December, twenty twenty previous really provision for cf is facing certificate expiration were discontinued after June thirtieth. Acknowledging the concerns in an August, six, Webinar F. A. A. Administrator Steve Dixon assured the community that relief would be extended as needed during the health crisis. The main difference between the new industry proposal and previous FA actions is that the grace period to complete your training or renewal would run for two months instead of three months, Chris, Cooper, Alpa, senior director of Regulatory Affairs. Here's a partial summary of the major industry proposals ability to the FAA for consideration. Pilots flight reviews coming due in October November and December twenty twenty and experience requirements consistent with the previously issued coronavirus pandemic as far would receive an additional two month grace period for accomplishing required training. But as you may recall these prior extensions to the FAA flight review requirements don't apply to most pilots and you may recall that the extension was previously grand. Just pilots were flying missions related to Covid nineteen relief efforts, which would not most of us. Knowledge. Test expiring in October. November December twenty twenty would remain valid for an additional two calendar months. In flight instructors who instruct certificates are set to expire October. November or December twenty twenty would receive an additional two months the expiration dates to complete their renewal requirements. From PC, dot co Mooney under new management. Manufacturer. Mooney has announced. It's under new management made up of pilots and Mooney owners led by CEO Johnny pollock announcement follows a period of for the company which culminated in the unexpected shutdown of its Kirby. Texas factory for two weeks beginning November twenty, nineteen curve ill employees were furloughed on November eleventh recalled in early. December when the factory was reopened and furloughed again in early January, twenty twenty. Pollock said our first and immediate focus is to make sure that we're properly servicing the communities fleet of over seven thousand aircraft. For the last six months, we've taken over parts production in managed to keep spares moving service centers. We have plans to provide efficiency so that parts are easier to order arrived sooner. We also announced that it is now offering an upgrade legacy g one, thousand software and a carbon cowl for the ovation according to Pollack design items that the company will be looking at going forward include a useful load increase retrofit followed by a ballistic parachute option autoland system in larger cabin. He also stated that that new management team will be working in partnership with and in support of the China based masion group it's Emmy I J I N G, which currently owns the company to expand moonies international network. From flying MAG dot, com pips roles four-seat Panther completes their first flight here in the US after flying the first US flight for the PIPPA Stroke Panther on August Twenty Fifth Right Rudder Aviation in Inverness Florida announced recently that they are now the exclusive dealer for pistols slick new composite four seat airplane in North Central and South America. Andrew Chan Right Rudder Aviation's chief operating officer May the First Flight The panthera departing inverness airport for two and a half hour flight test. The entire flight envelope of the aircraft check all systems in verify performance figures. Chan said that currently the panther is available as a factory built experimental exhibition aircraft experimental airframes take nine to twelve months ordered with certified delivery slated to begin in twenty twenty two so far in our testing, we've seen a maximum cruise speed of one hundred, ninety, four knots with economy cruise. Making one, hundred, eighty five, not suggest eleven gallons per hour according to Chan, the factory built panther with a two hundred, sixty horsepower lightweight engine will have a base price of four, hundred, Ninety, seven, thousand euros, which is about five, hundred, ninety, four, thousand dollars a deposit of fifty thousand euros or about sixty thousand dollars is required to obtain a delivery slot and Chan estimates that after options are added in out the door price for factory built panther will be closer to six hundred to seven hundred, thousand dollars. The airplanes feature a glass panel based on dual Garmin G. Three X GD for sixties with both PF MFDC's other avionics include the garment GMC three, oh seven to access autopilot carbon seven, fifty x I and six fifty Exi- touchscreen navigators, garment audio panel, and transponder with a DSP in out options include long range fuel tanks and planned air conditioning and de. ICING systems. Chance had right. Rudder Aviation is planning a US Tour With Panthera sometime in late September or October twenty twenty. Before that anyone interested in the panthera can email andy at fly are a that come to arrange demonstration flight at inverness or on the tour he says, we encourage individuals who expressed interest in the panthers to get in touch as soon as possible. So we can plan our root for the US tour. From flag DOT COM SYRA certify safe return on the vision jet in a milestone that marks the first certification of a modern auto and system on a light personal jet CIRRUS and Garmin approval up safe return on the surface vision jet sears celebrated the two hundred delivery of the vision jet in July solidifying its position as the best selling jet is indicated earlier. This year via G. Ama Associations Twenty nineteen report Sean Nilsson CEO of serse aircraft said was safe return we're making personally you should more accessible elevating the pastor experience and taking the next step toward autonomous flight vision jet sets a new standard of personal travel with a combination of safe return and caps offering the ultimate level of safety control in comfort for pilots passengers. Safe? Return. Integrates. The innovative. Carmen. into the G. to model of the jet alongside its other UNIX safety features, which includes the Cirrus airframe parachute in the garment perspective touch plus flight deck system is activated by a button accessible passers on the ceiling of the cabin in the event of the pilots incapacitation safe return than assumed control the jet navigating to the nearest suitable airport based on current weather, nearby terrain and aircraft performance system initiates an approaching landing without pilot or passenger intervention. Safe Return can be disabled by the pilot anytime using the yolk mounted autopilot disconnect button. And as I mentioned, I was at sears in Knoxville for three days last week where I did climb aboard one vision jet that has already been equipped with safe return. Tell it had a very prominent button on the ceiling just behind the pilot's head that you or passenger would push to initiate the system and you may recall that I was at Garmon when auto land was first announced last year and if you WANNA hear more about auto land, we talked about it in detail in episode one, twenty seven, which you can find it aviation news talk dot com slash one to seven. From PC D. N. dot. Co Stroll Announces Hybrid Electric Cargo v Tall PIPPA stroll the Slovenian company that's been producing electric trainers for several years. Now says it's ready to take orders for a hybrid electric UV, tall vertical takeoff, and landing cargo carrier capable of delivering up to a thousand pounds over an unspecified distance. But the Nevada that's in U. V. A., the Novi Three hundred says the company will be able to fly a hundred and ten pound load to a distance of more than fifteen hundred miles. He smaller variant the V twentieth designed to carry payloads up to forty four pounds over shorter distances. The V. Three hundred has unique platform that houses for independent vertical thrust electric motors on twin booms with an internal combustion engine offering horizontal thrust in a pusher configuration. Aircraft has to high aspect ratio wings. One low mounted forward and a high mounted wing in rear. It has no vertical fin or rudder a center section between the two booms provides the cargo hold and it's accessible via a hinged nose door. It can accommodate three so-called e PAL standard pallets that measure up to forty seven. By thirty one inches. These can be loaded onto the V. three hundred video forklift. The be three hundred would be capable of vertical takeoffs and landings and would transition to level flight relying on the wings for lift. The typical mission will be flown autonomously with an onboard redundant flight control system that can be continuously monitored by ground operator. Says the he three hundred combines the strengths of both airplanes and helicopters, and we'll have a fraction, the operating cost of rotary-wing vehicles. No prices have been given by the companies planning for the three hundred Danner Service during the second half of twenty. Twenty. From. techcrunch dot com reliable robotics is bringing a remote piloting small cargo planes. Nearly one year ago. Cessna one seventy two. Skyhawk, stealthily Made Aviation History when it landed at a small airport in northern California that would be hollister by the way after taking off from San Jose international marking the completion of the first successful remote piloted flight of a passenger airplane in the United States the company behind this milestone in commercial aviation history as reliable robotics startup founded in two thousand seventeen by former SPACEX and Tesla engineers who previously brought autopilot to electric vehicle auto driving masses and made the Dragon Rockets Sore. The company has raised thirty three and a half million in venture funding from investors including light speed venture partners, eclipse ventures, path breaker ventures in team were the ventures and is now making its pitch to potential customers in the logistics and shipping industry. Robert rose the CO founder of reliable robotics comes from a family of flyers. Both of his grandfathers with in World War Two is done stints as a pilot himself fact, the company's origin stems from roses attempts to get back in the cockpit and behind the Yolk. Reliable, systems aren't fully automated. There's still a pilot behind the scenes, but that pilot is monitoring systems and controlling the plane remotely rather than sitting in the cockpit. Reliable. Started experiments with retrofitting existing plans with autonomous systems in much. The same way that Tesla began its journey into manufacturing by using existing frames for aircraft rather than designing its own. Rose said quote we spent the first portion of our flight test program focused on the one seventy two with early, tested every aspect of our system simulation and conducted rigorous safety checks before operating the aircraft without a pilot on board. Now, proud to share what we've been working on. A couple of started with a Cessna one, seventy two skyhawk, but graduated to the larger Cessna to Await Caravan. The Caravan which is designed as a pastor plane is also used by logistics companies like Fedex for shipping in June. The company demonstrated a fully remote landing for the caravan over the San Jose approach path particularly heavily trafficked route. Reliable conducted its first retrofit and flight on Assessment Caravan on by Fedex Chop rates about two hundred and thirty five planes in its fleet according to rose several other shipping couplings also use the caravans for air logistics. Rosa the pitch to customers is increasing pilot utilization quote. Could, the economics change of pilots could teleport from one aircraft to the next after they're done flying row? Said our system enables you to more efficiently utilize the pilot in more efficiently utilize the aircraft. So I guess what he's saying in essence that a piled on the ground as soon as he or she has done flying aircraft could transition to flying another craft. From have web dot Com embry riddle working on super-efficient Hybrid. Power Plant. Claiming a power to weight figure four point six times better than any existing battery system researchers at embry Riddle's Eagle flight research? Center. are working on a gas powered hybrid system that could underpin future electric aircraft. This is potentially a big deal because it's assumed that electric aircraft will use some form of battery power. But what's not a settled issue is how they might employ gas or diesel powered engines as range extenders or supplemental power. Not much in the way of details as available yet but and brutal says that the gas engine is a lightweight, all aluminum turbocharged designed bill to drive a high performance electric generator. Engine reportedly produces one hundred, sixty horsepower. Quote the emissions benefits begin with the operation of the engine and generator at their most efficient settings. At All Times said embry riddle project manager, David Spitzer suggesting that the engine will be a severe point design and run at its efficiency peak as much as possible. According to embryo, the project is externally supported by two point five, billion dollar contract. This new engine is being developed with a vehicle in mind one designed to carry a payload of up to five hundred pounds at incorporating six dual rotor systems in twelve propellers. From case that DOT COM that's a TV station in Texas flight instructor written up twice by federal regulators months before fatal plane crash in San. Antonio. San Antonio pilot who was among three killed after his plane crashed there. Stinson municipal in San Antonio this summer had twice been sanctioned by the FAA before the fatal wreck according to records obtained by case at twelve. In both instances however, investigators allowed Robert Percocet to continue flying in operating his flight school purpose in twenty eight and passengers Zachary Collins thirty three died last month after both spent nearly three weeks at a San. Antonio Military Burns Center the Third Person Percocet single engine. Piper. Cherokee fifty five year old Simon. Willett. died at the scene of the crash. Will it's widow told case that last month or husband and Collins were taking part in a discovery flight with Bergesen help determine if they wanted to pursue flying lessons quote they said, the engine was having issues keeping altitude, and the second possible cause of the crash could have been an overweight issue. She said referring to what investigators told her shortly after the crash, the plane crash shortly after takeoff, a preliminary report released the NTSB provided few details about what may have contributed to the accident. The August twenty one report states that the plane climbed out shallower than normal in wobble before descending into the ground and catching fire. Ferguson, who according to public records had open the Valkyrie. Last year and built a fleet of four training. Airplanes was the subject of at least two separate complaints made to the FAA. One of the complaints filed last year by a flight instructor based at the airport accused Ferguson of taxing his plane onto the runway there as the instructor and a student were on final approach to land quote, he decided to go ahead and ignore my calls and take the runway back taxi, which caused me to have to go around said Instructor Matt. Harris who added that he progress had just spoken to one other via radio as soon as I. saw him pull out I have enough room or enough time to lance at Harris described adding power to his plane to avoid colliding with Parkinson's aircraft. Harrison a former student of persons who asked that he not be identified said person was providing spin training to begin students applying that was not rated for that type of a new. A second wide reaching plight was filed with the FAA against Percocet. November In that complaint filed by a former student of his Ferguson was accused of training the woman to be a certified CFI even though he had not held his own cfpb certificate at least two years federal regulations require the complaint also stay the purpose and told the instructors to train other students even though she was not properly rated to do so. The former student concluded her complaint by stating that Perkins Quote Standard of Excellence in herons to the rules is questionable police look into this flight schools operation. Before we have a mishap as the student pointed out, Ferguson's infraction See if I training she received from, him could not be counted toward her certificate. F. A. officials opted to give pergamon compliance actions instead of revoking or temporarily suspending a certificate. An Agency spokesman said is compliance actions. Typically include administrative sanctions such as counseling a warning letter spokesman for the FAA southwest region confirmed via email court records show that at the time of his death Ferguson was defended in three pending lawsuits filed in Becks, our county justice of the peace precinct four. One of the planet's reached by telephone toll case said that he also witness progress in installing an instrument landing antenna on one of his planes even though he was not a certified aircraft mechanic do that type of work. Other students said he repeatedly witnessed person perform work on his planes even though he was not certified to do so and other students said that while he was flying back from Austin with Bergesen, instructor flew too close to a home and was later informed by ATC that he had violated classier space. The students criticize the FAA for refusing to ground person. But for failing to release what sanctions he was given after the two investigations were completed. Finally from the Beacon, journal Dot Com, which is know how newspaper This is look back local history called balls from the sky. Jeff Kurtz broke will record but there was a catch. It's been forty years since the then twenty one year old Kent State senior scanned the sky while standing in a freshly cut Hayfield. While a small plane zoomed overhead and begin to drop baseballs from a thousand feet up with a crowd of forty friends and relatives cheering Kurtz raised as glove. It was August thirtieth nineteen eighty. Kurtz, had read in the Guinness Book of World Records. The highest catch ever recorded for baseball was one tossed from a thousand feet from an airship former Cleveland Indians catcher Joe sprints accomplished this feat in August of nineteen thirty, nine at the Golden Gate International Exposition in San Francisco. That would be kind of cool to set a world record Kurtz now sixty one remembers thinking as a youth I think I'm going to try it. What can US fails to mention was sprints was seriously injured in the stunt the catcher for the San Francisco. Seals in the Pacific Coast League sprints was trying to break a nineteen thirty record set by Indians catchers Hank Health and frank pint lack had snagged baseball's dropped seven hundred and five feet from Cleveland's Terminal Tower Sprint below the Goodyear Blimp volunteer as its crew released five balls from height of eight hundred feet. Not a thousand feet as Janice later published sprint Scott one over his head but the impact of the mid into his face fracturing his jaw, knocking out fourteenth and giving him cussin'. Perhaps, it's just as well. Kurtz. Didn't know the details the two year old letterman played baseball can state from nineteen seventy, seven to eighty one and served as team captain senior year it was confident he could catch a baseball from an airplane. Truth be known. He said actually done it before I had to I school classmates who their pilots licenses both of them are real good friends of mine a few years before the record setting attempt he had done a test run with friends where they rented a Cessna and dropped balls from five hundred feet. So I was running all over like a crazy man trying to catch baseball's good once or twice, but didn't catch one. The, pilots landed in Akron drove back to the field Kurtz was in and discover the ad made a single catch. So they took all the baseball's drove back to Akron municipal took off again with a bag full of balls and try it again, that time Kurtz was able to catch to them. But that's also Kurt started really thinking about the world record in nineteen eighty he has friends developed a plan, his friend George how to pilot's license and volunteered to fly a rental plan is friend John offered. To drop the baseballs and Ken Decree to operate a walkie-talkie on board. We were a little more scientific at about this time. Kurt. Said we actually got out the topographical map and figured out the elevations to make sure he was above a thousand feet. Neighbors allowed curtseys, their farm, and a crew set orange cones and a field. I took my first basements Golovin added extra lacings to it. He said, I took some heavy nylon string wolves from my glove. The last thing I wanted to do was catch one on the web and have it rip right through my glove after all the ball would be falling about one hundred miles an hour. The Plane Circled Twenty Times Kurt says basically flu the same exact pattern every time. So we're able to make small adjustments Kurtzer reached up as another baseball whistle through the sky the ball slammed at his glove without pop in the crowd. Cheered there were a couple of bounce out of my glover glanced off the glove, but that I managed to catch to them. Kurtz said he had set a world record. Kurds collected signatures from everyone present to verify the thousand catch even Mel proofed against including articles about the feet. He says I got a letter back from them that thanked me for sending it but telling me they were no longer accepting claims so that record which I thought was weird because it was still in the book. Reflecting back on his history. He said not too many people know that I did that in no one really talks about it. I thought many times about writing denison saying, Hey, would you reconsider this? Fun Story there that's our news for this week coming up next my weekly updates, and then we'll get to our main topic, which is talking about a tragic Sr twenty two crash that occurred late in August. All right here on the aviation news talk podcast. And now here's Paul John Fund Flying Destination High Maxon. Greetings from the UK I'd like to share a fund flying destination which we enjoy when visiting our family in Florida. It's Cedar Key Kilo Charlie Delta Kilo also known locally as George T Louis Airport. This small non Tout Airport is located on Florida's Northwest Gulf coast, twenty eight miles south of the cross city via are from Orlando. It's an easy fifty minute flight. The. Single asphalt runway five to three. Thousand Three, hundred, fifty, five feet long but it in good condition. At one end is a perimeter road and the other. Well, the Gulf of Mexico. On arrival monitor the SEATAC on one to two decimal nine and look out for seagulls. The airport has tie downs but no fuel other facilities. So arrive with sufficient to get you back to your next refueling stop. Transportation into town, a ten minute ride is easily arranged and a couple of local taxes actively monitor the SITA frequency. Back in the day when cargo ships will much smaller see the key was one of Florida's original port cities leading supplier of seafood and timber. Today. Marina can be found full of leisure-craft, but seafood tradition continues with a great selection of Waterside restaurants and bars. In Town Tony's restaurant post, its world famous and award-winning. Clam chowder. The quaint historic town is home to the island hotel built in eighteen, fifty nine as a general store plus variety of bed and breakfasts and cottages. The property we stayed in came in its own golf cart, which is ideal for exploring the local area without the need to rent a car. Renting a boat for a half or full day opens up endless. For exploring the surrounding waters and Sandy coves very good fishing and a huge variety of wildlife to be discovered. See the key offers, a different kinds of Florida adventure away from the theme parks and tourist hotspots. It's a picturesque destination and relaxing reminder of a bygone age. You can check out this adventure and many others on Youtube Channel Youtube Dot com slash zero three Delta. Thanks for a great podcast Maxim for keeping US entertained and educated during these difficult times I really want to thank Paul Jon for taking the time to send that if you have fun flying destination no matter where you are in the world kind shirt with our listeners easy to do just go ahead and take your smartphone look for the voice memos APP record perhaps ninety seconds and then email it to me at. Aviation news talk at gmail.com or you can just go to our website at aviation news talk dot Com Click on listener questions at the top that will take you to an application called speak pipe where you can record up to ninety seconds there and you can either record a listener question or a fun flying destination. So if he would please go ahead and do that as we've only got a couple of these left Now as many of you know, we have had devastating wildfires here northern California started about four weeks ago when we had thousands of lightning strikes that started hundreds of fires in while to the largest of these fires are nearby. They're largely confined to the mountains and the almost certainly won't affect me down here in the flatlands of Silicon Valley though the closest one, the Santa Cruz complex fire as a result of the evacuation of seventy seven thousand people who live in the Santa Cruz Mountains and clothing former boss of mine when I worked at HP. The air quality varies from day to day in the last two or three days have been absolutely the worst on Wednesday. We woke to read skies, and if you haven't seen any of the photos, just Google San Francisco reside see what things looked like on Thursday and Friday the skies weren't as colorful but the smoke descended lower and visibility at our local airports today is averaging. Half and one mile visibility and smoke putting four of our local airports below iof our minimums. It sounds like the air will start to get better few days which would be nice as it's been a long four weeks of rarely seeing the sun. I did take a trip to Knoxville last week, and that was my first commercial flights. Since February I flew out there to do annual recurrent training for the Cirrus Vision Shit and I spent two and a half days in ground sessions and in the simulator, and it was really fun to be back on the road especially traveling to my favorite place, which is the Cirrus Vision Center. In Knoxville, I often tell folks that it's like Disneyland for adult pilots. And frankly in spite of having to wear masks all the time, it really did seem like the first semblance of kind of normalcy I've experienced since the beginning of the pandemic I was going to give you some more details here now, but I've decided to hold off and create a separate episode in it. I plan to also share with you my thoughts and experiences about commercial air travel, and it's kind of a mixed bag. So look for that episode soon. Here's an interesting item that came from Patriot supporter Michael Rogers, an email about a new similar ring. If you're not familiar with ox senators, most people who fly at the higher altitudes perhaps above ten thousand feet will buy one of these pulse ox limiters, which you put on your finger in it shows what your action levels are very handy to make sure you're getting enough oxygen when you're at higher altitudes anyway he wrote have you heard of this? Well, Lou. That's W. E. L. L. U. E. Pulse ox similar product I. Think it's the best thing since sliced bread the problem with finger clip devices is you have to remember to use them, which is true I take mine on and off. he says, I have a timer set up in the perspective which would be in his serious to remind me in aborignes situations like failure of the two system you may be too busy to grab the accent or simply become less effective because of low oxygen saturation as we know, low to can be very dangerous to the point of bringing on strokes are worse. What I love about this device is it's a ring, you wear no wires go running to it like other devices you can set a vibrating alert to buzz you at predetermined drops in an levels, making it a thought free device. Unless your pulse ox similar drops to say eighty nine percent oxygenation you never need to check the display. The vice isn't cheap at one, hundred, seventy, nine dollars but I think it's an absolute must for serious drivers and other pilots reliance supplemental oxygen now, I just went out and I looked on Amazon and there's currently thirty five dollar coupon. You can apply at checkout that brings the price down to about one hundred and forty five dollars and I've included a Lincoln our. Show notes that you can use to check out the Oh to ring and by if you'd like the easiest way to find that as to go to the links in our show notes to do that just swipe and whatever APP you're using to find the notes for this episode or just go out on the web to aviation news talk dot com slash one, six, two in you'll find our show notes there as well. So Michael thanks so much for sending that along. In earlier this summer, the FAA updated and released a new version of the aviation instructor's Handbook. It's designed for ground instructors, flight instructors in aviation maintenance instructors, and it's certainly something I use when I worked on my CFI many years ago. provides aviation structures with up-to-date information on learning and teaching, and how to relate this information to task of teaching aeronautical skills. It's available as a free pdf from the FAA, or you can buy a copy of it a hard copy and soft cover for under twenty dollars and I've included links for both of the ways you can get the new aviation instructor handbook in our show notes. And, I want to thank a number of listeners who've contacted me recently told me how much the show helps them with their flying for example. I. Just got this message from our Patriot supporter Jeff Bell the other day who wrote I took him pass my see initial check ride today and I found myself echoing many things you say on the podcast during the check right? Thanks again for what you do. Jeff congratulations on getting your CFI of all the mini check rides. I've done my myself I check right was really the most fun and by far the most satisfying now, Jeff is a longtime supporter of this show and something happened to him that happens to about a half dozen of our supporters each month, and that is that something happened to his credit card either expired or was compromised I'm not sure which in this case. So he was no longer supporting the show in. Here's the interesting thing I send out emails every month to about six supporters who credit card have stopped working. Best. Maybe half of those people, people like Jeff go into the Patriots dot com site and update their credit card and some of them like Jeff actually increase their contribution level when they update their credit card, which I greatly appreciate. Well, the net result is we lose a few supporters every month, which is why I often ask you to sign up to support the show that is, of course if. You have the financial means to do. So if you don't, that's fine. I totally understand, and of course, when you sign up I'll read your name, which literally will get hurt by thousands of listeners and over one hundred, forty countries around the world including countries like Iceland country, which I loved visiting a couple of years ago and hope to get back to some day Indonesia and even the Isle of Man. Tell you about some of the great people who've just signed up the last couple of weeks to support the show we have two new supporters at the fifty dollar level. I talked about mark holes spot class time but I didn't tell you. He lives in south, Western? PA. He's a longtime aviation enthusiast who wants to get his private when he retires in a few years and he runs Biden steel dot com which manufacturers industrial fasteners and joining us weakest Tim Crawford at the fifty dollar level. He flies a diamond DA forty out of crosswinds aviation at K P t k the Oakland County airport, which is north of Detroit. Other new Patriot members, include Danny shouts, Kevin, Lynch at the twenty. Dollar, level. Andrey. Dannon Scott Giada. Greenhow. Matt Marshburn. Greg Holbrook who switched over from pay pal. Emiliano then as roomy Peter Myers. Sean harder. Stephen Rashly. Kenji Coochie. Ryan Madison. And we had a few one time donations via paypal including Richard Auch Bei voor that said nineteen dollars. Thank you. Fred. Canavan who's donated. Multiple Times. Joseph Vigne Junko Twenty five dollars. But Cash Sankara one hundred dollars. Thanks so much. And someone from Chicago Land and he knows who he is at twenty dollars. Well, it's easy to support the show via patriots just go out to aviation news talk dot com slash awesome or aviation who's talked dot com slash petri on and use a credit card and select the amount. You'd like to donate each month at different levels. We've got different goodies. So for example, people who donate at the four dollar month level M I should note S- people donate at the eight dollar month level will get show notes plus links to all the cut stories that we didn't have time for in the news this week there were seventeen of those cut stories which everybody at the eight dollars A. month. Level will be receiving and we have various other levels as well too. But let me tell you about the mega supporters, the people who donate fifty dollars a month or more. These include Brian deer who lives here in northern California flies a turbo two. Oh, six Tyson Weiss who co founder and CEO of four flight, which is a very popular FBI APP and Bruce. Dickerson? He's a financial planner living in Georgia and flies a K thirty five bonanza. There'll be a book in the mail to him this week Victor. Vogel, who lives in central PA and flies a Cirrus Tim? Delaney. He's a wealth manager in Santa Rosa and flies in SR twenty two out of the Santa Rosa Airport. Stephanie Lop Flies at Turbo One, eighty two and a citation cj three plus he's the CEO of API jet. Mike Williams. He's the president of Kobe as well as TC composites, maker of composite spinners and bulkheads for GE aircrafts. Seth. Lake he's a DP. Giving check rides in Arkansas. He also specializes in teaching the multi engine rating. His peach travel airs. He's down in Arkansas, check them out at vs L. Dot Aero. Rick Miller also a CFO teaching in the Cincinnati area out of the London Flight Training Center. He also teaches people who own their own pipers, Cessnas Beechcraft and CICADAS. Justin. Winter who brokers real estate on Lake Yoi and South Carolina Lies Two Thousand Nineteen Sr twenty two Carlin an Rossi of Maine coon cat aviation who fly three says not to forty aircraft Johnny mcdaid Singer, songwriter musician and record producer. Jim Gold Fuss who's flying out of the Republic airport on long. Island new. York US training for a CF double I. An emmy I in the meanwhile teaching aviation up pilot Proficiency International as an advanced and instrument ground instructor. You can find about a facebook it ground point nine he's available for individual instruction in person or online. Trolley Mason flies out of Santa Monica and he flies a Cirrus s are twenty. Vincent Sally me. He's council member for the city of Panel California, and he's also owner of Sally Construction Management in San Francisco. Jim Hop is a CFI. Advantage Aviation of Palo Alto California Lars. These are younger support. He flies redbird simulator until he's big enough to defy as Dad Cessna two. Oh five dead cells, boats, boats, DOT com. Joseph she hand flew in the navy for eight years and his now flying around in his vision. He tells me he's got more than one hundred hours in it now. Josie. Freeman working on his instrument rating Dylan called. Well, he's an Ame in Florida down at the Naples. Municipal Airport. So if you need a basic med second or third class flight physical contact him at Aviators Clinic Dot Com. Ted Position Student pilot lives fifteen miles south of Philadelphia and Delaware where he watches airliners joined the S. approach. We in Burch who I heard from this week donates to the show in the memory of his son who we've talked about the past. Lieutenant J G. Wallace Birch was a navy pilot. Done Hey Cala with professional instrument courses they conduct ten-day instrument courses iof are finish up and IOF. Are Refresher. Courses. Steven Busch he's the owner of Lonestar helicopters, Lago Vista. Texas. They do lots of add on ratings for fixed wing helicopter, as well as original ratings for people starting from scratch at Lone Star. Heli that calm. Down Dilmun longtime supporter professional pilot who runs an airline flight department he's also see if I am flies a bonanza. Rick Mattis owner of point wise which makes cfd simulation software used by aerospace companies. You can find them at point wise dot com. Kenny Wilson who develop a virus fighting pennant via far pen DOT COM. John Costa Flint, Michigan is getting checked out in a Cessna. One, eighty, two RG, which is one of four planes you can rent at the Greater Flint Pilots Association. Badge is a serious owner who lives here in the San Francisco Bay area. Rick Love Knoxville. Tennessee based CIRRUS. SEASCAPE is a former factory instructor specializes in finish up courses for instrument and commercial ratings is also available for transition training current training. You can find him at Rick Love CFI, Djamil Dot Com. And we talked about mark, holes, Bach, and Tim. Crawford. And I really WanNa thank you for your contributions and thank everyone who supports the show in any way. Coming up next what we know today about a tragic accident that occurred late last month in Illinois with an SR twenty two crashed in low I far. All right here on the aviation talked podcast. Before, we get started to ask that you not send me email afterwards that says people shouldn't speculate about the cause of accidents as I have explained on the show in the past. That makes sense if you must know the exact cause of a specific accident but people are much more interested in accident when it happens then they are a year later with the final. NTSB report comes out and it is educational to talk about the facts surrounding particular accident and the full range of possible causes, and that's why other safety educators and I often talk about potential causes before an NTSB report comes out. Let's talk about a SR twenty two crash that occurred on August. Twenty Ninth Twenty Twenty at about one thirty am central time near Lawrenceville Illinois. This accident was tragic because there were an unbelievable number of risk factors involved reflecting poorly on the pilot's judgment to take on so much risk. But at the end of the day, it was the pilot's inability to correctly fly an instrument approach that cost him his life, and oddly it appears he didn't even know he wasn't flying correctly until the very end when he crashed mile short of the runway. While the final NTSB report won't be out for a year that will probably sight an improperly flown approach and possibly loss of control. I think the root causes of the accident will be a subtle air that I occasionally see instrument pilots make. And that air is trusting their lives to the Magenta line on the moving map rather than the course pointer on their HSI or the needle of their CDI. And we'll talk more in a few minutes about the evidence that suggests he was relying on his moving map instead of his HSI and why it cost him his life. Let's back up a little. My first impression of this accident was that there were many many risk factors involved. They include a pilot who had low total flying time and had relatively little experience on an aircraft he just purchase. In addition, he chose a fly very late at night after a long flight from Florida and he chose to fly an approach that was just barely below minimums. Among those many risk factors what really stood out to me was the folly of attempting to land at his home. Airport. An hour later, the me needed to because he chose to fly out of the way to buy cheap gas and say, perhaps ninety dollars. This appears to be a pattern with him as he successfully did the same thing on each of the two nights before the accident. But this time it caught up with him. Because this time in less than an hour, the weather conditions of the pilots home airport went from. Wins to nine zero at four, six miles. Visibility missed scattered clouds at three hundred overcast at twelve hundred temperature to three do point to two to less than hour later wins calm half mile visibility in fog vertical visibility two, hundred temperature to to do point to to. So that, our delay, the buy cheap gas gas probably cost him his life because if he had flown the, it's when approaching our earlier in even floated improperly in the same way, he ultimately did you would've broken out of the clouds at twelve hundred feet. Noticed, he was flying off course six tenths of a mile west of the instrument approach course corrected and landed safely. So arguably is designed to save ninety dollars may have cost him his life. But you might ask, should he have known the whether was going to get worse in the answer is yes. Because there was just a one degree difference between the temperature and the dew point which should tell a pilot. There's an excellent of clouds and low fog forming. I'm sure if I ask you is your life worth more than ninety dollars click you tell me. Yes. Of course, it is and that you wouldn't take on all the riskless politic did. But hindsight is twenty twenty and walt's clear to us after the fact that what the piloted was dangerous. It apparently wasn't obvious to him. In though you might tell me that you'd never do that. He situations can sneak up on otherwise good pilots like you and me in very insidious ways. I. Mean it's easy to start a late night flight because you don't feel that tired. But how tired are you gonNA feel four and a half hours later after one or two am in the morning. And how good will your judgment be that? Will. You even notice that the temperature in do point almost the same. And we realize what that means. And will you still be driven by habit? To buy cheap gassim saved ninety dollars. In no doubt many pilots of successful and can afford to buy an airplane because there are very good pinching pennies and saving enough of them to buy an airplane in there circling nothing wrong with saving money whenever you can. But sometimes pilots failed to recognize that there are some situations where you need to change that behavior n that try to save every last buck. You can great example is when you need surgery I, mean you may pinch pennies and all aspects of your life, but when it comes to life saving surgery. Most people don't shop around to find the cheapest surgeon they can find of course not. They shift paradigms instead of using a paradigm. It says always find the cheapest solution they shift to a paradigm that says working I find the best doctor to help me. With life threatening situations, people don't worry too much about finding the cheapest possible solution they were instead about finding the best possible solution. You believe it's not the cheapest one to save their life. and His pilots, there are times when we have to shift paradigms. For example, common, paradigm pilots uses do whatever it takes to avoid damaging the airplane, and that's a great one to use because it will save a lot of money if you play your decision making piloting skills in ways to bring an aircraft back to Earth with no scratches. Yet there are times when you have to change that paradigm, the one that serve you. Well, ninety nine point, five percent of the time. Imagine you've just taken off you're low altitude and the engine quits. If you haven't thought through the situation ahead time, your instincts will probably kick in and you'll resort to the standard paradigm and says, the runway represents the safe harbor. You always go to Your Save the airplane paradigm mainly to determine one hundred and eighty degrees back to the runway. So you might have a chance however slim of avoiding damage to the plane and in some cases that may work out, but it's a very high risk strategy is there are countless examples of pilots killing themselves while trying to turn back to the runway. And by the way, it's not a one hundred and eighty degree turn back because after you tune nine, hundred, eighty degrees your offset perhaps a half a mile from the runway. So. If you try this at altitude and please, don't try this down close to the ground climb up one or two thousand feet. You'd need to I make two hundred and seventy return followed by a ninety to return the opposite direction to line up with the runway. In everything has to work out perfectly for all that to happen. It unfortunately, often things don't work out perfectly. So a better paradigm when you have an engine failure on takeoff has to do what it takes to save your life in forget about trying to avoid scratching the plane. In using that paradigm instead of turning back to the runway, you most likely will look for someplace in front of you where you can make an off airport landing. Yes. You may damage the airplane doing that. But if you save your life, you really don't care about whether they are craft was damaged or not. A lot of pilots use the always find the cheapest solution paradigm when buying gas in that works for us much of the time, which is great as it can save a lot of money over time but sometimes, circumstances change buying the cheapest gas could be a really bad choice of it leads to your rapping damaged or worse yet to your death. I once help the low time private pilot bring a used Sarah said he'd bought on the East Coast back to California where he lived and he had meticulously planned our fuel stops across the entire country to always buy the cheapest gas it dinky little airports. One of those was a narrow runway in New Mexico about forty feet wide and we're going to be landing there after dark in Holland crosswind. Now, I vetoed that stop and saw the others we'll ended much larger airports that provided more services and of course had less risk. Now, let's talk about the serious crash. That pilot had just bought an SR twenty two and the FAA registered to him three days prior to the crash. The pilot who was a judge had apparently according to one source has private for a year and a day when he crashed apparently passes instrument rating nine months earlier before the crash and promptly bought a beech bonanza which he sold when he bought the serous. Typically, the FAA registry lags the purchased eight by a few days or weeks. So it's safe to assume this pilot had a serious at most a few weeks to a month prior to the crash. The aircraft was a two thousand, seven Serse, Sr twenty two and based upon an ad that I found on the Internet listing the aircraft for sale. It appears that have been upgraded with DMC ninety autopilot and had garbage genus four, thirty W GPS. which are coming upgrades that should have helped him if he know how to use them properly. One listener from his local area. Told me the pilot upgraded the avionics in his plane after he bought the plane though I don't know what else might have been installed by him. The accident pilot was based at the Lawrenceville Vinson International Airport that's L. W. Veep Lawrenceville Illinois, which is in eastern Illinois. He was in the habit of flying to the Sullivan County Airport S IV in Sullivan Indiana, which is twenty two miles away in western Indiana to buy gas. Two nights before the accident flight on a Wednesday night piloted to practice instrument approaches and then landed at. KS IV to buy gas before returning home. The skies were clear that night unlike how they were two nights later when the pilot crashed died, it appears that that night he flew the Arnav GPS runway nine approach twice into K. Mto, Coles County airport that serves Mathu Illinois were coincidentally all my books are printed. The first approach was a long straight and approach which would have been relatively easy to fly. After reaching the L. P. V. minimums of that approach, the pilot may the climbing right turn back over the airport and flew outbound. So he could fly the approach again and here's where it gets a little interesting. There was a race track, which is essentially a hold depicted at. Oh Seki. That's. K. E., which is a combined I. F. Slash Af were pilots would go to start the approach if they were flying on their own navigation. And it's clear from the ground track that the pilot was not getting vector Donna the approach and was indeed flying at under own navigator or pilot navigation. From the direction he was coming from that required him to make a course reversal within the race track so he could then head back to the airport again. The pilot didn't fly all the way to a Seki before reversing courson if course will be required to do that in the via far conditions in which he was flying though by starting the course reversal turn several miles early ended up with a rushed approach that almost didn't work out. When the pilot started the course reversal. Early, he turned approximately forty five degrees to the left for teardrop, which what I would do in that situation but then the pilot made a small mistake that I often see low time instrument pilots make since the pilot turned forty five degrees to the left. After timing out for a minute, he should have made a one hundred eighty degree turn to the right which would have put him on an intercept heading to join the approach course inbound. If you turn to intercept heading, you will eventually join the inbound course. But. Instead of turning to an intercept, heading this pilot turned to the inbound course. In in doing so he ended up flying parallel to the instrument approach, but he was offset significantly to the north of the instrument approach in. Here's the bizarre part. It took him a full minute. To recognize that he was well to the right of the course. into. Start Correcting back to join the course. Now why is that bizarre? because. When you join an instrument approach, you're watching the HSI or the CDI to verify that you're on the approach and that the needle is centered. But this pilot who thought he joined the final approach course. Didn't realize for a full minute. He was actually parolling the course but wasn't on it. And when he finally started to correct, Tacoma, full three minutes to rejoin the course which he finally accomplished read about the final approach fix. So, this pilot was having problems even when flying and approach and VR conditions, but it was his failure to notice for full minute he was off. Provides an important clue to his crash two nights later. After making two approaches in Coles County the pilot flew to KS IV across the border in Indiana, which is apparently where he liked to fly for forecasts. The price difference when I checked on four flight was about a dollar twenty gallon. This particular aircraft holds ninety two gallons, but it would be rare to run these planes much below twenty gallons. So if to make a long flight, you'd need seventy two gallons of gas and you theoretically save eighty six dollars and forty cents. But in actuality your savings would be smaller ones you consider the time and fuel required to fly out of your way to buy gas. For example, every hour you fly reduces the engine value by about twenty five dollars and it's going to take several gallons to get home. So realistically, you might only be saving around fifty dollars instead of close to ninety dollars. The following day Thursday, the accident pilot flew a five hour and fifteen minute flight to Florida. He landed first at z Ph Zephyr hills Florida nine, thirty, seven pm where he most likely landed to buy cheap gas. After filling up landed nearly an hour later at ten thirty, two PM at its final destination of KTF, the Peter O Knight Airport in Tampa. Florida. According to the F., B. O. he taking this flight to drop off a passenger in Florida the pilot spent the night there according to one listener contacted me. He spent most of the following day Friday biking around Tampa. In here are some of the risk factors he started flying at eight, forty, six PM eastern time that night for his four hour and forty five minute flight back to fuel airport, and then most of the way to his home airport before crashing. I. The Night X-ray was about four times higher than the daytime accident rate. So automatically, you're placing yourself at significantly higher risk also fog and low clouds tend to form late at night. So by leaving late your increasing the chance, you'll have poor weather destination. And finally, fatigue. I am always shocked at the number of accidents that I read about that happen at one or two in the morning. A night owl and I do a lot of work at night and frankly I hate getting up early but even I wouldn't be out flying around at one am in the morning. Because even though I'm a night owl I know I don't perform at my best late at night especially after midnight. Which is why what am my personal minimums is that I always plan to be on the ground by eleven pm in generally I don't fly at night as I much prefer to fly in the daytime when it safer to fly. Now with all that his background, let me read the preliminary NTSB report on this crash which came out a few days ago. On August Twenty Ninth Twenty Twenty about zero, one, twenty three, that'd be one, twenty three am central daylight time and just let me interrupt and say that the pilot was in the eastern time zone all day and only crossed into the central time zone a few minutes before he crashed. So effectively, he crashed it to thirty two am eastern time. Imagine how tired you'd be after flying nearly five hours and then refueling plane and the taking off again shortly before crashing at two twenty, three Am. So continuing with a report, a serious SR twenty, two airplane and six Oh seven Sr was destroyed when it was involved in an accident. Near Lawrenceville Illinois, a pilot was fatally injured according to preliminary air traffic control data. The airplane departed. Putera Night Airport Tampa Florida about eight forty, six PM eastern time and landed the Sullivan County Airport Sullivan Indiana about one twenty, six eastern daylight time. It to eleven adt the pilot departed Siv on an F. Our flight plan after refueling the airplane in route to Lawrenceville Vincennes airport. L.. W. V. Lawrenceville. Illinois. which was located about twenty two nautical miles south. Airplane departed Siv to the north turned left toward L. W.? V. Inclined to about twenty six, hundred feet mean sea level. About one, seventeen, central daylight time. The airplane began a descent toward LV? And the JEB do way point. The controller asks the pilot to verify if he had the weather notams at l. w. v. and that he was requesting the Arnhem GPS runway one eight approach. The. Pilot verified he had the weather a notice in the controller cleared the pilot for the approach starting at the Jeb do way point. Controller terminated read our service when the airplane was about thirteen miles north of l., w. v. an instructor pilot to cancel the flight plane in the air or on the ground at l. w. v.. There were no further communications from the pilot air traffic control multiple attempts to contact the pilot by ATC were unsuccessful and an alert notice was issued for the airplane. According. To law enforcement due to fog conditions. The search and rescue efforts were not initially available until weather conditions improved the airplane was located by search and rescue personnel about seven thirty am. Examination of the accident site by responding FAA inspector revealed multiple tree impacts north of the main wreckage several sections of wing skin and wing spar debry were located between the tree impacts and the main wreckage. The debris path measured about two hundred, fifty feet in length on a measured magnetic heading of one hundred and eighty degrees. The main wreckage came to rest in wooded terrain and post impact fire consumed a mature, the fuselage impetus and fragmented wing sections. There was no evidence of the in Flight Cirrus airframe parachute system deployment. By the way that doesn't surprise me the last flight aware dot com data point was about fourteen hundred feet, which would have been about a thousand feet ag l.. This pilot appeared to have descended into trees. So he would've not known he was in trouble until he was way below the safe altitude for deploying the parachute at the crash site was about a mile north of the airport. so He'd almost made it to the airport and normally on our GPS approach with LP minimums, you'd be suspended about five hundred feet per minute. However, the last few data point show him at a much higher descent rate. The three rates recorded were seven, hundred, sixty, six feet per minute eleven hundred, five permitted in one, thousand, nine, hundred feet per minute. So he was coming down at about twice the rate he should have been if he'd been the glide path. But there was one other thing that screams out about this approach in combined with a poorly flown approach nights earlier I think it leads us to the answer of what went wrong. The accident pilot join the GPS eighteen approach right at Jeb do, which is the I F slash AF, which is where you'd expect him to join the approach. But incentive actually joining the approach, he was very late on his turn to join the approach. By the time he was parallel to the final approach course he was about six tenths of a mile west of the final perch course. and. He never corrected back toward the course for the entire length of the instrument approach. Now, what's bizarre about this is that when you fly in our approach with LP minimums, the course with the final approach fix is plus and minus point three nautical miles, and then after you pass the F. Af, it becomes increasingly more narrow as you fly along the final segment just like an S. Which means the left right needle on his Hsi the so called Debar would have been pegged off scale before he even reached the final approach fix. Most Iof our pilots know that when the needle of your CDI indicator is pegged off scale, you have to go missed you can't continue the approach yet. This pilot was seemingly unaware that he was off course until he crashed a mile short of the runway. So, here's the mystery which I didn't figure out until after I'd written the full first draft of this discussion. How could the accident pilot not have noticed for the entire length of the instrument approach that he was off course by six tenths of a mile though flying perfectly parallel to the entire course. In Y two nights earlier it take him a full minute to notice. He was off course when he came out of the course reversal on his second approaching Nicole's county airport. My first conclusion was he couldn't possibly be looking at his HSI because if he were. Instantly. Noticed both times that he was off course and he would have corrected properly. Another possibility of courses that he had equipment failure but that seems unlikely as he ultimately flew both approaches correctly two nights before. So. This pilot wasn't looking at the HSI, for course guidance which he clearly wasn't. What was he looking out for course guides? Almost certainly he was looking at the moving map. And had become a child of the Magenta line the term children of Magenta line traces back to nineteen ninety-seven what American. Airlines captain. Worn Vanderberg said the industry had made pilots too dependent on monitoring the MAGENTA lines on the airplanes were flying. By. The way he has a video called children of the Magenta line all including two in the show notes. As a flight instructor I've had to tell instrument pilots a number of times to use the needles of their. Their CDI, the determine how far they are left or right of course, and to not use the moving map to determine if they are on the centerline of an instrument approach. Here's the problem. When you look at moving map, the map looks pretty much the same whether you're fifty feet off a course, which is pretty good. That would be about the width of an airplane or whether you're six tenths of a mile, of course as the accident pilot was. In by adjusting the Zoom Knob, you can make the moving map picture look virtually identical for those two situations, one way or flying very well on her off by just fifty feet in the other warrior disastrously far off course. So from a user interface standpoint. This is a really dangerous situation having a map. It looks essentially the same when you're practically on course as it does when you're parallel to the course but are far off the course. So. If there's anything you remember from today, please please please always use the needles as a primary indication of whether you're on course and only use the movie map as a backup to the needles and not as the primary indication as to whether you are centered on the instrument approach. Because if you do the reverse as I think this pilot probably did and you use the movie map is your primary indicator. You may be way off course and not even realize it until it's too late. Sadly given the lack of course corrections I'm sure this pilot never knew he was off course and because the controller switch the pilot to the advisory frequency about a mile before he joined the approach, there was no one to tell the pilot the appear to be off the course. So remember when you're flying this approach us the needles all the time because relying the map could kill you. One other thought if you'RE GONNA fly approach down to minimums says this pilot did You need to know how to use all of your. If I were flying this approach I would use the autopilots Nath mode later, the approach mode to track the instrument approach. This pilot flew such a straight line that it's obvious. He was using the autopilot, but he must have been using the heading mode instead of either natve mode or approach mode. Because if he were using either of those two modes, the autopilot would have correctly tracked the approach on both nights. In, this accident probably wouldn't have happened. All, which is to say when you fly in approach minimums, everything has to go perfectly you have to operate the equipment. Perfectly. If you make a mistake, you need to notice promptly and fix it or fly the missed approach. Low time instrument politics are often overconfident when flying approach to minimums because they just passed a cheque right. But when you pass a check ride, it means that you have met the FAA's minimum standards for that rating. By contrast High Time Recognize the risk involved with lion approach to minimums and will often look for an alternate especially if there are multiple risk factors as there were this accident. As you know flying instruments is a deadly serious game. You either do it well, or you are purposely putting the lives of you and your passengers at risk. And hopefully, we can all learn something from this tragic accident. Coming up next listener feedback right here on the aviation news talk podcast. I. WanNa. Thank everyone who emails me I read all of it try to answer most of it in a small percentage of it gets here on the air. Now happened to bump into this one. This was from a year ago and probably never would've gotten to it but hey, it's relevant today this came from Anthony says reading the aviation instructor's Handbook per advice quick question for you. Why does the front cover have a picture of someone's brain exploding? He says in all seriousness I am binge listening to your podcast and love them while Anthony Good News. For you. I just mentioned earlier in the show that there's a new updated version and it doesn't have the exploding brain anymore on the cover. Thanks so much for your email. In this comes from Patriot supporter Broadway whiskey he says several people on Reddit and similar forms seem to be saying that SPF are specially far is just too dangerous but I don't think that is the case changing the rules to be more restrictive because people don't follow. The rules doesn't seem useful especially for rules that have legitimate use cases and I wrote back to him and I said the FAA. Rules permissive. So sometimes SPF are safe and other times it is not they leave it up to the pilots good judgment went to use it in windows to I've used it a number of times only once felt like I was right up against the limits of safety visibility was one mile but I was following a road to the airport. Probably whiskey also says about Tsa I think what gives me reason to not worry is that all the bad events are incredibly rare and essentially unstoppable and I think pretty much all the guns and knives through Tsa are innocent mistakes that we never hear about in that was in response to our story about how the number of guns found a TSA checkpoints is three times higher this year during the pandemic. In from patrons supporter Brooks Dora he says episode one, sixty one was another good podcast and fund shaking my head relating to pilots that ignore local procedures was twenty years since flying into Catalina follow the procedure to enter the down wind and some twin thought he was special. It made a straight in regardless of the F. B. O. on the taps stating straightens were not allowed. So here I, am the down wind turning base focusing on landing at the. Arguably, challenging approach thinking in watching for this Jackwagon to run up my tail, we got on the ground and they landed behind me and I watch two younger dudes, exit the aircraft and had to bite my tongue from giving them. Some input was my daughter's birthday. So did not want to cause a scene and let it go wonderful day otherwise I worry about the other guy a lot of the time always good advice to keep it professional and he Sent along a video of his landing and I were back to Brooks Nice video and congratulations on taking the high road in dealing with the dudes in the twin. I find that the older I get the easier that is to do and I'm sure your daughter enjoyed the day more that way. Anyway idly I've never flown in Catalina though I've been to the airport I was once on a cruise ship that stop there. So I took a bus up. To see the airport brooks thanks so much for your email and just quick reminder. If you have not clicked on the subscribe button, go ahead and do that. That helps a lot an apple podcast APP because if you don't do that, you don't see the most recent shows reflected when you go out to look for aviation news talk and it will show all of the recent shows. If you click on the subscribe button of course, it doesn't cost you anything. Finally. Please tell all of your friends about the aviation news talk podcast, and some of those people won't know what a podcast is. So just send them out to the apple APP store or the Google play store where they can download our dedicated APP for free. Just have them search in the store for aviation news talk so next time fly safely have finally keep the blue side up.

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189 AOPA on Warbirds Adventures Case and its Impact on CFIs, Cirrus Safety Award + GA News

Aviation News Talk podcast

1:10:08 hr | 2 months ago

189 AOPA on Warbirds Adventures Case and its Impact on CFIs, Cirrus Safety Award + GA News

"Hello again welcome aviation news. Talk where we talk. Generally the ation with news and find tips pilot suit and pilots to help. Keep you safe. I'm extra step today. We'll be talking with a. Oh p general. Counsel just teen harrison and alpa jared allen about a court decision in the warburg adventures case in both its immediate and potential future impact upon flight schools and flight instruction and after the news. We have lots of your e and questions to share last week. In episode one eighty eight. We talked with eric gunderson about the mid air collision involving a cirrus in metro liner near denver. So if you didn't hear that episode you may want to check it out. And i'd like to ask you for your help right now. Take just a moment to share the show with a friend who you think might enjoy it and then follow up with him or her and suggests that they subscribe to the show. If you're using the apple podcast app. Just look for the three dots at the bottom. Thanks so much for your help this week. In the news a grummin tiger pilot got a big scare when he thought he was being shot at two pilots were fired. After an incomplete preflight inspection that led to some aircraft damage in a helicopter was used an unusual way at a high school. All this and more and the news starts now from. Alpa dot org. This is about the adventures case many. Alpa members have been reaching out to us about the recent court decision to allow an faa emergency cease and desist order to stand against ward adventures. A company that was providing flight instruction in a limited category ward without an exemption for such an organization but decision leaves many questions and concerns on its week. It's useful to analyze the decision from two perspectives. One immediate impacts and to potential future impacts and by the way there was an article published online by major magazine that suggested flight schools and even independent. cfi's might have to get a part one thirty five certificate to teach which would be a substantial burden so to get to the bottom of this. I spoke with. Alpa's general counsel justin harrison ao pa. Attorney jared ellen and you'll hear that conversation later in the show from web dot com grummin tire intercepted by f. sixteens with flares inside presidential t f are f sixteen intercepted a german tiger. That violated a. T. f. r. involving president biden's visit to his home in delaware according to a secret service statement on may sixteenth at approximately one pm. A small aircraft violated the restricted. Airspace in wilmington delaware for standard protocol. Us military aircraft responded. The aircraft was intercepted in the pilot redirected to a local airport. The woman pilot told john martin director of aviation at new garden airport in pennsylvania where he landed that he and his wife were returning home to an unspecified. Newark airport from ocean city maryland and were unaware of the t. Afar barton said both were shaken up adding not only were. They intercepted by. F16's but they thought they were being shot at by the flares that defense department spokesman confirmed quote. The norad fighter dispense signal flares during the intercept in an effort to gain the pilots attention and direct them safely out of the restricted zone. Martin said the pilot was later interviewed by the secret service and flew the tiger home from new garden. The next day martin said this was the first aircraft since biden's inauguration to be intercepted and then landed and fifty seven though. He said the a. told him that there have been between four and seven interceptions every weekend. There is a t.f. Are in that most landed nearby. Chester county airport. Martin expressed frustration over the presidential ours which effectively shut down the airport. He shared some of the same prostration experienced by new jersey and florida airport operators during weekend presidential t afars during the last administration from mlive dot com airline fires. Two pilots after emergency door flew off and insul- bound airplane just before takeoff to pilots have been fired after an airplane. Emergency exit door was ripped off moments before a flight to michigan's upper peninsula. W l you see tv reports that boutique airlines pilots failed to complete a preflight checklist causing the door to open before takeoff. Tomjanovich wakefield's at his carry on bag was sucked out of the opening during a flight from minneapolis to ironwood which would be in the upper peninsula of michigan. Several other passengers also relieved there from experienced during the incident. During a gogo bec- iron county airport board meeting on monday. We're not trying to hide. Or deny anything sean simpson. Ceo boutique airline said during the meeting. W l. you. Uc also reported the san francisco based airline plans to resign from their contract with a gogo. Bec- iron county airport but did not give a reason. Why boutique is the small upper peninsula. Airports commercial airline boutique airlines will continue to provide service until the airport. Find other options. According to the tv station and the story doesn't mention what type of aircraft were being flown. But the website for boutique says they fly both pilatus. Pc twelve and king air three fifties from the air force website at af dot mil washington state patrol pilots successfully test special laser eye protection developed at wright patterson labs and my thanks to isaac alexander who sent me the story you can find him on twitter at jet city star. The story says aiming laser at an aircraft as a federal crime that canetti offenders up to five years in jail or cost them two hundred fifty thousand dollar fine even with us heavy potential penalty laser strikes a become increasingly more common according to the faa sixty eight hundred and fifty two. Such instance were reported in two thousand twenty compared with three hundred and eighty five in two thousand six so far this. Here's of joy lazing up twenty percent over last year. Laser strikes are almost always made at low altitudes. Were aircraft is taking off preparing to lend to parts of flying. That require the most attention from pilot. Most laser eye protection works by filtering out green or red light the color most commonly used in handheld lasers unfortunately according to faa studies in years of pilot. Experience this can change the pilot's ability to accurately read the instrument control panel a twenty nineteen. Faa report suggested. This problem might be fixed. By changing the type of lighting the control panel researchers at the air force research laboratory recently came up with a better solution. One that was successfully tested on the job by washington state patrol pilots according to lab personnel. They use the cockpit. Compatibility design software that they have and they modified it for commercial. Use the commercial version called. Kelly c. a. l. i. for commercial aviation low intensity filters out the laser light. But not the light coming from the pilot's instrument panel simply put they said the lenses maximize protection while minimizing the impact to the cockpit. The researcher explained the during the riots and twenty twenty law enforcement reached out to the community and ask who knows anything about laser eye protection. The seven hundred eleventh human performance wing and the naval medical research unit dayton also at wright patterson all juggled a number of briefings about what is available in the industrial base effects on human factors etc. Most the protection available to the police was the standard issue. Non kelly type however one particular group of aviators in washington state tried the kelly products decided. They were heads and shoulders above the others. One of those aviators was trooper pilot. Tactical flight officer. Cameron iverson of the washington state patrol. Everson said we have some new laser glasses. We were supposed to test out that the airforce had developed. I know we were the first ones to test them. He explained that the aircraft he flies gets around twenty to twenty five laser strikes a year. He said quote we've been fighting about eighty percent of the violators. We can spot the source of the laser light using an infrared camera and then walk other law enforcement officers to the address or location actually apprehend these people unlike the non kelly lenses color. Perception is minimally affected quote. it doesn't distort colors to tremendously bad said iverson. It does darken up white. Making it look more yellowish but your reds and blues even your greens that are displayed on the instrument pal screens still look red blue and green. And he said just last night. We had another two laser incidents in the classes. Worked great well. This is an awesome story. I think for years. I thought that eventually we will find a way to reduce the number of strikes through education of the public. I'm not convinced that probably the long term solutions for pilots to where laser eye protection when they fly at night from duluth news tribune dot com portable music speaker report off floatplane propellers during takeoff at duluth sky harbor airport quote. It wasn't until i sat down and began to fill out the ntsb paperwork at my computer. As i was going to listen to some music that i discovered what i believed it happened. The pilot wrote a portable speaker left on a flow planet duluth sky harbor airport ripped off the plane's propeller last year during takeoff according to the ntsb in its final report the ntsb determined the twenty twenty incidents probable cause was quote the pilot's failure to move an object from the plane's exterior which impacted the propeller blades when he applied full power causing them to fracture damage. The airplane knowing your is were reported and the pilot and his passenger were able to put life jackets on and escape the substantially damaged aircraft before it began to sink in the duluth superior harbor according to the ntsb the pilot of an icon. A-5 fibia airplane taxied on the water before facing into the wind for takeoff and applying full power. About five seconds later the pilot heard a loud bang. You shut down. The engine climbed out of the plane to look back and saw all through the propeller blades. Were gone it is likely that the audio speaker which was left on the airplane struck the propeller blades which resulted in the propeller blades separating from the pillar and penetrating the fuselage. The ntsb said the pilot told investigators. He has not been able to find the speaker since the incident from planning pilot mag dot com survey results. Pilots are overwhelmingly for restrictions on governments use of aid. Esp for enforcement and they talk about a recent survey. The magazine did of whether government agencies should face greater restrictions and how they use a dsp data for enforcement actions. And i think the magazine probably did this survey as a result of the martha lumpkin incident that we talked about back in episode one eighty five which he flew under the bridge story says our first question was a hot button. One quote should the faa have the right to use a dsp data to find examples of violations. That are not otherwise reported to them. And i'm pretty sure there's a typo here on the story. I'll tell you what the story says. And what i think it should say it says our first question was a hot button. One should the faa have the right to use a dsp data to find examples of violations. That are not reported to them. Three quarters of those who answer the survey questions thought that such fishing expeditions should be allowed. And i think they meant should not be allowed and it continues on while just over ten percent thought it was okay in some instances with just seven percent thinking it was just flat out okay and by putting the word not in that would make it consistent with the headline which says pilots are overwhelmingly four restrictions on government use of a dsp for enforcement continuing on but as our original story found. It's not just the faa that's using a dsp against pilots state agencies and even counties and cities are turning to the data as well. Our question should government agencies other than the faa be allowed to use a dsp data for enforcement of airspace landing or other violations a whopping eighty two percent of respondents answered with an no with fewer than ten percent thinking. Such uses of the data should be permissible and seventeen percent thinking. It was okay in certain unspecified incidences asked. Would you be for new. Federal regulations limiting the faa's use of ads before enforcement action against pilots. Eighty seven percent of survey takers thought. That was a great idea. With eleven percent thinking we should leave congress out of the conversation two percent declining to answer so no big surprise pilots would not like to see. Esp used for enforcement purposes from alpa dot org rudder misapplication cited in fetal king air crash. Ntsb determines probable cause of twenty nineteen plunge into hangar. Investigators found no faults in the left engine of a beechcraft king. Three fifty that stop producing power just before the aircraft rolled to inverted and crashed into a hangar. Seventeen seconds after take-off from addison texas on june thirtieth twenty nineteen. The crash killed both pilots and eight passengers on a private flight to florida. So the ntsb has just come out with their final probable. Cause on this. Which essentially says it's pilot error and we'll be interviewing someone in a future episode to talk about the story in more detail in here. Some updates on stories we've talked about in recent episodes. This one comes from w. f. m. j. dot com judge refuses to dismiss low y issue. That's youngstown state university stadium flight case against pilot in a nine page ruling handed down youngstown. Municipal court judge carlo baldwin dismissed a petition to have the case against pilot christopher wilkinson thrown out in november two thousand nineteen authorities charge wilkinson with inducing panic and disorderly conduct after allegedly flying. Single engine cessna. Close to the press box and stadium lights while fans were watching the september. Twenty eighth game against robert morris. Wilkinson's lawyer said it should have been up to the faa to prosecute wilkinson and not the city. The ruling says in part other state courts have found that laws criminalizing unsafe. Operation of an aircraft are not preempted by federal law and in a similar outcome. In a similar story this comes from the east hampton star dot com. David wiesner the low-flying pilot who was charged with second degree reckless endangerment after buzzing sag harbor long island at around five thirty pm on april thirteenth this year in minutes before that areas of springs was arraigned on may seventh in sag harbor village justice court for the alleged misdemeanor. Mr. wisner's ninety day banned from east hampton airport is ongoing. And here's another update massachusetts bill to charge a thousand dollar landing fee to be revised this comes from generally nation news dot com a massachusetts state senator who proposed to build a charge. A one thousand dollar landing feet for virtually all j. aircraft now says he plans to quote extensively revised the bill before it comes before the relevant committee. According to a report by gordon gilbert of aviation news international best state senator initially proposed quote an act to mitigate the climate impact of private in corporate air travel unquote to reduce carbon emissions generated by what he sees as luxury aircraft owned by the ultra wealthy. He said from feedback. I've received from aviation advocates and others about the bill. It's clear that more should be included specifically flights used for pilot training sightseeing tours and smaller cessna airplanes or those registered massachusetts and owned by a massachusetts resident. So we'll keep track of that story and those are updates finally in the news. If you dry it they will come carrollton hs rally to dry baseball field for district play. This comes from kinsey. You dot com in carrollton. Missouri says rain has soaked listening area putting a damper on many high school baseball district. Tournaments one high school went all out to make their field. Playable carrollton high school is the host and number one seed in the class. Three district sixteen baseball tournament since the tournament began. It has been idle due to heavy rainfall in wet field conditions coaches players and administration from chs the carrollton park superintendent and other members of the community work diligently to dry the soaked field manual labor rakes shovels. Atv's and even helicopter used and they include video and pictures of the drying process. And let me pass along our best luck to carrollton. Hi and congratulations for your ingenuity using helicopter. Help dry your baseball field well. That's the news for this week. Coming up next your letters and questions and we'll talk with attorneys from alpa about the warbirds adventure rolling and its on flight. Instruction all right here on the aviation. News talk podcast. Let's go to some of your emails and questions. I used to put these toward the end of the show and at the show ran long i would end up dropping them but i think i'll go ahead and start putting those up a little earlier in the show and see if we include more of them in the future because some of these are just great. This comes from dick in florida. He's a major in the civil air patrol. He says can't tell you how much i enjoyed and learn from your interview with john tagus now. That was episode. One eighty four about a boeing test pilot. Who had an engine out of emergency and how he handled it. He says i sent a copy out to almost all of my pilot in civil air patrol contacts considering the comment on the hemispheric rule in the lower peninsula florida which he said would be basically below the interstate for orlando area. The rule is different at runs. North for even altitudes and south odd. Altitudes never heard that before he says the folks in the florida keys or the conch republic pride themselves on being different. Some visitors might consider them odd. That's how i've come to remember south odd who north even less funny. Thanks so much ticket. I visited the keys a couple times many years ago. And i just love that part of florida and this comes from rafael. Who's also coincidentally in florida regarding episode one. Eighty five and martha lumpkin. He says in regards to his lungs under the bridge. Escapade i have found that many pilots have responded to it with two hazardous attitudes. That we're taught to avoid anti authority and invulnerability makes me wonder how safe we really are up there with so many pilots who selfishly feels. She did a good thing. Adding to london's own impulsivity and another hazardous attitude and just review the hazardous attitudes. We talked about these episode. One fifty four or we talked about a class. B violation in las vegas hazardous. Attitudes are macho impulsively resignation invulnerability an anti authority and some researchers have proposed a six one which is loss of face. Here's some comments from episode one eighty-seven this comes from sherry and oregon. She says i recently listened to your episode one eighty-seven talking about hearing loss while the information given on the show was pertinent. I feel you did not address some important points for pilots who fly with hearing loss one at the first sign of hearing loss. Get a hearing test and get fitted with hearing aids when getting fitted the most important factor is the hearing professional. Who does the fitting real ear. Measurements is a must to. I was hoping to hear some discussion as to how pilots with hearing loss cope in the flying environment. I'm one of those pilots. I set my aides to tele coil only mode and use a light speed zulu three noise canceling headset. Lightspeed earmuffs can fit over my ear and hearing aid i carry a backup pair of hearing aids or h. As in regularly change the headset. you're patting. there are pros and cons to this and other solutions sherri. Thank you so much for sharing this information. Now you use the word teluk. Oil which. I was not familiar with so i went out to. Nc heure loss dot org which is the north carolina hearing loss association. Here's what i learned says. A wonderful feature available on many hearing aids is called the telecom also referred to as a switch or t coil a tiny coil of wire around a core that will induce an electric current in the coil. When it's in the presence of a changing magnetic field which by the way we'd be like speaker tele coil therefore is an alternate input device for hearing aid. Normally hearing aid listens with its microphone. Amplifies what it here is but with tele coil used as the input source instead of or in addition to the microphone the hearing aid can hear magnetic signal which represents sound and it says on telecom equipped hearing aids the where must turn on or switch to tell coil mode by moving a small switch older models to the position or by changing to a program mode by pressing a button on the ear level device or on a remote control that is set up to use the tele coil as an input source instead of or. In addition to the microphones. Some users prefer that only uses the tele. Coil and not the microphones when they are intel coil and others prefer a combination of teluk. Oil and microphones. There is no right way for everyone but there may be a best way for each person it says. Originally the telecom was meant to hear the magnetic signal naturally generated in an older telephone which must be the source of the name tele coil. Who speaker was driven by powerful magnets. This allowed someone with a history of the telephone better if they just turned on or switch to teluk oil as an input source for their hearing aid and now there are many more magnetic sources that can be heard by intel coil equipped hearing aid. Well that is great information. Thanks so much. Passing that along sherry in here are some comments about last week's episode. One eight on the mid air collision over denver from scott in colorado. He says really enjoy your work. Max do we know if the series involved in the mid air was a g five or g six with higher caps a minimum altitude. And yes. scott. It was a twenty sixteen aircraft. Which would make it a five and yes typically people would teach that you want to be at least six hundred feet in the climb before pulling that parachute whereas in the older aircraft which are lighter and have a somewhat smaller parachute. Five hundred feet would be typical altitude. Where people would i consider using the parachute as they climb though. Sarah says that there is no minimum altitude because there may be circumstances we might still want to pull the parachute at lower altitudes and from william in missouri. He says i listened to your show on the centennial mid air. I'm curious about the proper. Go around for the cirrus. Once he realized he was wide on the approach assuming he would figure this out on the base turn does he just continues straight in other words. Continue the base leg contact tower. This would put him. Crossing the approach. Were one seven left. He didn't turn left or right does he. Just hope that there is no one on approach with parallel. Perhaps he did realize he was going to be too wide but the timing was such that there was a plane on his way. And william. what's your thoughts on that. It's an interesting thought. I don't think people often give a whole lot of thought to. What do you do for a go around on the base. A my reaction to that is as soon as one recognize any kind of an issue. We should go round immediately. Add full power and climb and then if you're on a base i would turn parallel to the runways because if you continue on bass as wayne was asking that would put a pilot in conflict with the down wind or opposing traffic on opposite base. So i'm taking paralleling. The runways makes the most sense. I probably then correct to get over. The centerline increase the spacing from any opposite direction. Traffic on the other down win. So those are my thoughts on that william so much for sharing that. And here's comet from kim son. He is a doctor. Who i know here in california and i thought he really has some good insight here. He said as a low time pilot. I think i could have been this pilot the one we are criticizing just recently training for my commercial overshot. The final twice and once a few months after getting my serous. I descended into the pattern in an unfamiliar airport at one hundred fifty nuts because i just passed a mountain range to get to the airport of the valley. I was descending quickly. I was trying to look at the airport and is vr. Only pilot. then. I had no idea of which power attitude would yield which setting. It was only when atc actually hinted that. I was going to fast that. I remembered the standard settings. I'm certain the pilot never intended to fly the pattern at those speeds ever intended to overshoot the runway of course never intended to ram into the metro liner. I actually don't think his mistakes are that rare. I have done those stupid things. That i was just lucky to not hit anything. We humans are. We can general eyewitness the frailty of the human body and spirit every day. Many years ago. Inexperienced surgeon at harvard teaching hospital operated on the wrong leg of a patient. How could that happen. He told me that he had never thought he would make that kind of basic mistake. Just like some of you are currently thinking you will never make six delta julius mistakes and of course i was the series involved in the mid air continues. I hope the pilot recovers well from this traumatic experience that he gets back in the air and try to become a better pilot. I'm sure he's his toughest critic the past few days and i hope we have some compassion for him and welcome him back to the community with our open arms comes on. That is really great message. Thanks so much for sharing that. And yeah i think that You know probably gives all of us Reason just kind of sit and think even as we get more experience we still have to remember that any of us could make a mistake even with some of the basics in aviation and. Here's something posted. On facebook by cirrus see sip instructor. He said i just instituted. A new rule turns to base above traffic pattern. Altitude or below ninety or above. One hundred. ten knots. He said when i have parallel operation so two more runways the down would with target. Which would be the distance. The down one is from the parallel runway of one mile or more. So you don't wanna get too close to that runway. And he said if he's within three quarters of a mile cross track for any runway. You can't have a tailwind on the base leg. Good comments there and here's comment on facebook from david. He says i remember a few years. Back coming back into k. p. o. c. two parallel runways. I was cleared for the left. And the guy in the right to sell it to intercept my final. We were quarter mile apart in both less than a mile from the field hence low and slow and i noticed him. Drifting conclusion situation awareness with palo runways needs to be increased. There are bows out there doing wild things i ended up doing an immediate go around. The other pilot was given a phone number to call scariest moment for me. And here's an email from a cfi in colorado. He says max. I just listened to your episode on the mirrored centennial. I must see if i at that airport at agree with lots of your points from the show. One thing i'd like expand upon is the over. Reliance on autopilot. I've flown with a number of pilots have been trained by c. Sips that are instructing. Their students to use the autopilot in the via far traffic pattern. He says no. I'm not a sip. Which would be a serious standardize instructor pilot. I haven't seen any serious publication where listens encouraged. You are correct on that as we saw with this accident. The autopilot doesn't know what's best in the pic has to be ready to take over when the situation dictates. In the scenario the best course of action would have been go around or starting the pattern of the proper airspeeds my enjoy the show and appreciate all the content and i followed up with Some people at serious about this afterwards and they confirmed what this pilot. And i believe which has there is no guide serious training material to use autopilots in the traffic pattern to me. That's just absolutely absurd. The auto pilot is not going to be the right tool for being able to make your turns to base in final. It just doesn't turn fast enough. So if you're using the autopilots in the traffic pattern cut that out just ridiculous. I in order for that to work. You'd have to be flying an absurdly wide traffic pattern in generally. We don't fly huge traffic patterns so anyway just my two cents on that. Here's an email from hessian new york. He says great job of the podcast. Always i just listened to the centennial episode. I've been following your comments on thread on copa. That's the sears. Owner pilots association. Your nine and ten lessons were very instructive in particular. I'm going to take to heart your encouragement to bank up to thirty degrees in the pattern. I admit i am one of those pilots who use shutler banks mostly because i tend to fly wider patterns and don't need a steeper bank but perhaps i fly wider patterns because i use shallow banks and so overshoot afifi closer. A couple of comments. On the centennial mid air i was going to create the sears pilot with reacting quickly and pulling the shoot but it was interesting to hear your hypothesis shoot deployed automatically because of the impact and by the way they preliminary. Ntsb report has come out in it. It says quote. The pilot report of the airplane was not control after the impact and he deployed the cirrus airframe parachute system or caps in. My hedge continues. Also i think that there hasn't been enough recognition into the metro honor pilot. He was very professional in his voice on the radio. Even collision was very calm. I think he was a credit to the profession. Keep up the great work in the podcast. Also wanted to let you know that i just donated one hundred dollars to the show via paypal. Hey thanks so much. Appreciate that mahesh and fly magazine. Senior editor rob mark. How to comment on the same show. Hey max it's robin chicago. I just wanted to say atta boy. Episode about the mid air at centennial airport. I think their professionalism Yeah well we'll have to wait and see about how that works out because obviously the pilot on the series was not completely in touch with what was going on around him which is dangerous to anybody at any airport But you and eric Had a really good conversation. I enjoyed the the math behind it as well. I think that any pilot. That didn't understand the math. That you were explaining should probably Schedule a little time with their instructor and because that is absolutely important valuable information to now anyway nice job. Keep up the good work. We'll see ya. Thanks very much and now. Here's a listener question from victor amac's this is victim was flying on approach the day with a cessna. One seventy two. J one thousand and selected the borough minimum for the l. nov. Enough whether when it came up we only had the l. mouth so i was trying to reset the barrow minima to the higher of minima but i couldn't find any way of doing that. Seems that the only way to do that would be to reload the approach. Completely which once. You're actually close enough. Then that that's probably not a good idea to be deleting approach trying to re-enter it so i was wondering a missing a trick or is there a way to reset thoughts on not She could offer. That might be of interest to people if you know the way to do that. Thanks very much. Thanks so much for your question. I followed up with victor since he mentioned l. nov slash v navin. There are very few approaches here in the us and by the way. I know it's different in other countries but here we have very few approaches with l. nap slash veena minimums the don't also have l. peavy minimums but it turns out that victor was flying one of those rare approaches and it was the tulsa. Oklahoma are have three six left. Which has l knapp slash veena an l. nov minimums. But no ill peavy minimums now. Here are a couple of important points. I without waas capable. Gps receiver as soon as you cross the intermediate fix the imf or as soon as you activate vectors to final. You need to look at the gps or if you're flying alas last cockpit you need to look at the hsi to see which minimums have been. Unseeded doesn't say l. p. v. does it say l. slash veena. Does it say l. Nafe a lot of pilots don't do this and they'll missing. What victor saw. Which was that. His approach had been downgraded to l. neff minimums which are almost always higher than the l. v. or l. nov slashing minimums. Victor did catch that downgrade but then he wanted to be able to enter the new minimums into a system in many glass. Cockpits you load the minimums when you load the approach so you could go back and reload the approach in her new minimums that way but there are a variety of reasons that you may not want to do that. One of which is you will briefly lose course guidance. By the way victor. If you were to do that you don't need to. I delete the old approach in the garmin glass. Cockpits that i fly in anytime you load. New approach is simply wipes out the old approach. So deleting the old approach. I is just a wasted step. That's unnecessary and really takes up. Valuable time with lewis to change the bureau minimums after already loaded approach. Just push the timer reference soft key-. It's the third soft key- from the right. You'll find that the bottom line of that screen that it brings up allows you to change the birmingham's victor. Thanks again for your question. Hope that helps and coming up next our conversation with alpa attorneys justin harrison. And jared allen. All right here on the aviation news. Talk about cast. Tell you a little bit about our guests. Justin harrison is a as general counsel and corporate secretary. She leads their legal department and overseas. Alpa's legal services plan. She's a commercial rated pilot and flies aircraft ranging from an air cam experimental that she co built to a lear five prior to joining. Alpa harrison ran her own law firm for a decade after serving as general counsel of the nevada cancer institute jared allen is managing attorney for gop as legal services plan and is an instrument rated private pilot. Legal services plan helps members with over five thousand legal matters year in addition to medical matters. Now here's our conversation with justin harrison and jared allen. We'll just seen in. Jared welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us here. Today it's going to be here next rabbits well. There was a recent court ruling that could impact how flight instructors do their business. I understand it led to a lot of phone calls. They're in as i understand it. What the the crux of this is whether or not flight instruction considered a commercial activity. Can you just kind of explained historically how has the faa viewed flight instruction the sure we can do that and max. I think it's important to know that. The crux of this particular case was how can you provide flight instruction in a limited category aircraft so the case wasn't about flight instruction in general it was about flight instruction in olympic at bray aircraft and specifically f. a. r. a. Ninety one three fifteen bat was the regulation that was at focused when it comes to flight instruction which is involved in this case The faa has traditionally said that flight instruction is instruction compensated flight instruction is compensation for the instruction you not for carrying people around and so there are multiple legal interpretations out there and talk about this and there are multiple other places as well and preambles to regulatory promulgation in the federal register. That say this so it was a surprise to us all to have this court decision. Come out it was not about flight. Instruction in general but they were asked to review an emergency order to cease and desist. The court's decision was no. We declined to review it but then they went on and said a few things about flight instruction which none of us expected. And that's what's raised some of the questions. Okay so as. I understand it in the past neither of the student nor the fire was considered to be a passenger during flight instruction. So is that why flight instruction hasn't been considered a commercial operation or common carriage guarantee. You wanna take this one. I know it's a cold that you get frequently in the legal services plan. Yeah absolutely so a few things about this case. As just mentioned you know one of the important takeaways is that this case did not impact one of the regulations which is fourteen sia for one nineteen point one that talks about the types of operations that require an air carrier certificate that rule has always had an exclusion for flight instruction or student instruction and this case has not changed that but as just mentioned after they decided the immediate issue this season desist order. They provided some commentary on the specific rule at issue. This ninety one three fifteen that concerns these limited category aircraft and this specific rule uses basically the word persons instead of passengers. And so like you mentioned. Even though in the traditional flight instructor and students scenario neither of those individuals would be considered passenger here. This rule is using the word person which is why the court said that the operation which was prohibited so i guess instruction is kind of been caught up in this inadvertently villas a little bit about the history of the case. How did this all get started. Sure so this is An interesting case because there was no particular accident associated with this operation. There was no incident associated with this operation. Rather it's something that the discovered is part of their surveillance of different types of operations and as the faa said in their briefs on the case their position was that the surveillance of warburg aircraft. He's limited category aircraft. Started shortly after the twenty nine fifteen upi seventeen crash and according to the faa as part of the surveillance They surveilled an air tour and on that tour was this particular. P forty warhawks aircraft curtis right beautiful airplanes of course and as any beautiful Airplane will it caught the attention of folks around including faa inspectors. Unfortunately and that soon led to those f. a. a. inspectors looking at the operation. What was going on. And it didn't take long for them to take the position that this operation in their opinion of violated this particular rule concerning limits category aircraft There was a lot of back and forth between the faa and the operator of this aircraft. A lot of formal communications with the attorneys. That were all part of this court. Hearing and the court case that the dc circuit heard Ultimately though Those conversations and letters exchanged basically result in the issuing a cease and desist order by dressing mentioned and the faa basically took the position that What was going on with prohibited and without an assurance from the operator that they were gonna stop making these flights they issued the order and then the operator had the unique ability to use a particular statute to appeal this season desist order directly to the dc circuit which is fairly because often times these very Not necessarily conflicts but Unique aviation cases are often heard by say. Ntsb administrative law or they. At least start at that level Or perhaps a dot administrative law judges. I hear however the case went directly to the dc circuit court of appeals kind of one level below the supreme court. If you will and so these judges that heard this case Although they often ear different types of federal administrative matters don't often see this type of faa case. Come before them well. I guess this was an emergency order. my understanding is that apparently the operator didn't stop providing flight instruction as soon as the inspectors told them that that was prohibited. Yes and that's exactly. Why if you look at the court opinion. The judges said the reason. We are declining their three reasons. Taken together they. We are declining to review this emergency order and they relate to the fact that the owner was told by an inspector that you should not be doing this without an exemption but continued and then they got a letter from the f. as chief counsel making it official that the f. as position was to give flight instruction in this limited category aircraft you need to have an exemption didn't apply for an exemption and advertised for a flight instruction in the p forty and so the f. said you were continuing after receiving two notices for from us and so we moved forward and emergency season desist order because you gave us no indication that you would stop doing what you're doing. Well that's fascinating so you're saying that essentially it's common to get exemptions to give training in these types of aircraft but the operator shows not to do that and that's what all this correct now. The operator did have some some reasonable arguments for why he believes in exemption wasn't needed but the fact is there are many exemptions that are out there and the court specifically said you could have gotten an exemption and you never revived for one. Okay so i guess it pays to listen when the faa suggest you do something yes but just because they suggested doesn't mean that that is a requirement that that's the law but when you disagree with the faa you ultimately have to have somebody be of final determinant of what you can and can't do and in this case it was the dc circuit court of appeals. And unfortunately they didn't come out with the answer. That airman was hoping for well. It sounds like in some way. They didn't come out the answer that the faa was hoping for the faa perhaps been happier if they had just denied to review it but hadn't added these extra comments that they made about flight instruction. I think it would be a lot simpler if that's what had happened and we were at first optimistic. Seeing it was a two page opinion. Because you can't have that much extra language and if you paint opinion but unfortunately there were a couple of sentences in there that that didn't catch her retention of caused some concern and ended up with the f. Eight you ask what does this. Impact flight instruction in general or does it or how does it. Impact flight instruction in limited category. How does it impact flight instruction in other categories of aircrafts and we're waiting to get those clarifications. So what are the possible outcomes. I mean it sounds like it's kind of a a naughty situation that the faa now has to kind of figure out how to undo this. Gordon not what are the possible outcomes. While i do think it's important to note first of all the definite outcome and that is that if you are the owner operator of limited category aircraft and you want to receive flight instruction in that aircraft. Then you're going to need an exemption from the because that's something that this decision makes very clear so likewise if you're a flight instructor who provides flight instruction in these type of limited category aircraft then again you're going to need to make sure there's an exemption that permits you to do that. That's the immediate and definite result of this decision when we talk about the potential ramifications. These are possibilities but haven't happened yet so just the. I know that you're familiar with some of the potential consequences here so some of the potential consequences. When we look at flight instruction being characterized if it is Which is unclear. But if flight instruction is deemed to be carrying persons for compensation or higher when you get paid and let's remember the faa when it in his legal interpretations when you say what is compensation they say it can be. Just about anything doesn't have to be money it can be good-will can be the cruel of ours so just because somebody is not paying money doesn't mean that the faa may not take the position of compensation is involved. Which is why. I think is wise rejected to say if you are receiving providing instruction in limited category aircraft. Make sure that there's an exemption in place but for the bigger picture if providing instruction in getting compensation for it is getting compensated for carrying people that does raise some real issues that raise issues because number one right now. You don't have to have a second class medical to be a flight instructor. Could that be different. Maybe if if flight instruction is deemed to be carrying a person's for higher than it also raises questions in some of the other categories of aircraft. Because there's similar language in other categories of aircraft that talk about persons and not just passengers and carriage of persons. And what you can and can't do those categories of aircraft so what happened is by focusing on outward persons and then by putting in some language around flight instruction and the characterization of that in the court's opinion it has raised questions under a whole variety of other similarly-worded regulations. So in the worst case. I guess for commercial type operations. The operator has to have a certificate in the worst case. What does that saying about flight. Instructors what type of certificate could they theoretically need. We're going back to what jared said. Remember you don't need an air carrier certificate to give instruction there's a specific exemption in one nineteen point one but the question i think is more of what type of medical certificate could be required for the instructors here and in what categories. What hoops do you need to jump through you. Be allowed to provide instruction in a certain category of aircraft so as with experimental. 's you need a lotta if the aircraft is not owned by the student in limited category aircraft This case indicates right. Now unless the faa issues a clarification anybody that gets instruction in a limited category aircraft even if they don't that aircraft need to have an exemption place. What would the rules fee for standard category aircraft but when the roles be for other categories of aircraft. That's where the questions raised okay. So you're saying it's unlikely. I need to go out and get a part. One thirty five certificate give flight instruction in the future cracked. Okay absolutely couldn't agree more. And i'll tell you we've gotten a lot of calls from flight school owners structures across the country asking that very question. Do i need to stop what i'm doing now and go out and try to get a one thirty five certificate and by the way for those folks that have been through that process if you plot for one thirty five certificate. Hurry up and wait. 'cause it's not going to happen anytime soon But the answer of course here is that no. It's not required now. This court decision did not stand to mean that you need to go out and get that one thirty five to the typical fly instruction we talk about okay so it sounds like in the worst case. You're saying the biggest ramification might be flight. Instructors might be required if second-class medicals. Actually i don't think it's going in that direction and and if the faa tried to take it in that direction i would tell you they will have a big fight on their hands from a variety of places in in the community including from from from our association the faa. I think this is the role of unintended consequences. With broad language issued by judges who don't deal in aviation language every day. So max one of the interesting things is this case. The opinion that decision was issued an unpublished opinion. And what that means is the judges themselves. Said we don't think we're setting any big precedent here. We don't think we're making any waves. We're just dating what we think is obvious. And therefore it's an unpublished opinion. And so the judges themselves didn't seem to appreciate the impact of the nuance of some of the language that they use. Because it's not the language they use on a daily basis. And so what's important to note here is the faa traditionally has not wanted to create a large and bureaucratic pathway to training. They know that training is the key to safety. And we all want to make sure that those pathways to excess training as often as you want or need it or wide. And they're open in their easy and we don't have a lot of hurdles training keita safety. And i think that's something bit that we can all agree on. Even the faa brought up experimental aircraft a moment ago and i think in general people are unable to provide flight instruction in flight school experimental aircraft if there were such a thing but i know that for example owners of experimental aircraft can get instruction in their own personal aircraft. Explain what the load is that. You referenced in how that can help people with instruction explore craft. Sure so i i actually Lying experimental aircraft and a lot of us when we get into an experimental aircraft. We already have make model time whether you're buying one or you're building but we know this really important to be able to fly one And to get that make and model time at crew. The skills in the airframe. You're going to be fly now. The faa says because of the experimental ager and every experimental is essentially a one of a particularly on the amateur built side. The faa says. We want to put in an extra layer protection. If you don't own the plane you're flying an important part for this is to understand that. The faa clearly delineates between getting paying for instruction in an experimental versus paying for the plane that you use during the extraction with experimental. But they have this load process and the letter of deviation authorities something you can get through your local physio so unlike with limited category where they're saying right now you need to apply for an exemption and that request goes to headquarters and has a quite a bit of process behind a getting a response to that. A lotta is a relatively efficient and local process for you to be able to use a third party plane for experimental trip and that would make a lot of sense fruit. A new builder who to get trained in type before they have their own aircraft finished. Are they allowed to pay rental for the use of aircraft in addition to paying someone to them flight instruction if they have a lotta correct. So that's the key to being able to accept compensation for use of the aircraft is having that load in place and so with limited aircraft limited category aircraft there are exemptions rate now and they are over three hundred limited category aircraft currently on the phase registry of but there are not that many exemptions. There's there's only a dozen or two dozen exemptions out so there's a big gap right now in the number of exemptions versus aircraft and so the faa has some options and can look at how it's handled some of the challenge with other categories of aircraft. If wants to consider something other than the exemption process to be able to deal with those who want to get training and they may look at it and say well the pathway. You need to use depends upon whether you own the plane. You're getting training in or or somebody else's applying the plate but again these are things of the fa is considered before for other categories And won't be taking a look at as we move forward to see. How do we make sure that everybody who flies or wants to fly limited category aircraft clear and easy pathway to that training whilst we start to wrap up here any other things that you'd like to mention about this particular case and its ramifications for flying instruction what i'd say is just reiterate richard said before this house immediate ramifications you're providing receiving flight instruction in a limited category aircraft beyond that it's unclear Alpa gamut jointly sent a letter the asking for clarifications we have not yet received feedback on that But we look forward to receiving ensuring that with everyone so in the absence of clarification on the broader issues. We are thinking through concerns. We are thinking through downstream potential consequences. But there's no need for immediate action until we have more clarity of what we're dealing with and it is very possible that the faa could come back and say we are not changing our position on the characterisation by training compensation. We've always said that. His compensation for the instruction and we're not changing our position on that so we really need more information from the faa before we can identify whether there are bigger concerns and how it needs to address those concerns. Okay well before we go take a moment and tell us a little bit about as legal services plan. Yeah absolutely max. And i'm glad you mentioned it because one of my final comments here was going to be that if you are a member of. Apa style protection services and have questions about this issue particularly. If you're flying instructor you don't wait until you've already made the flight to give us a call and ask hey. Was that legal. Or am i going to be a trouble costs before you make the flight. That's always a good idea. So for ao ks pile protection services which includes our our legal services plan It's something that's available only to members we got about three hundred thousand member so these days and about seventy thousand members have opted into our legal services plan and generally how it works. is that In exchange for your membership You have access to not just in house attorneys like myself. Who can provide some initial advice to help you understand regulatory requirements. It guides you through these types of Interesting legal issues that may pop up throughout your flying but should the worst happen and you find yourself faced with an faa legal enforcement action or you have an aircraft accident or incident. We will get you in touch with a local attorney and you're going to have a certain number of hours paid for by the legal services plan to help with your legal fees associated with that event so We see work time and time again. Where folks who otherwise would not have access to education attorney because they remember legal services plan are able to either get the advice they need or or bounded defense to faa enforcement action. So certainly. it's something we recommend for all of our members but we're always happy to talk about let addition to some of the defense work in the the other interesting thing that we do that everybody may not realize and it's been a very busy part lately as been purchase and sale transactions. So if you are buying or selling a plane or leasing a plane or leasing a hanger. We can help with that. That's one of our benefits so as you know it's a pretty hot market right now for aircraft purchases and sales so. I know that our phone has been ringing. More often than usual hoping people buy sell create partnerships. Create flying clubs and secure hangers. And and where would people go to find out more information about ao pa in your legal services programs. Aarp dot org pretty straightforward. Will jared justin. Thank you so much for spending time with us here today and thank you for all the great work that you and alpa do to help support generally vacation community. Thanks for all you do to help educate all of us max and for all the flying and instruction you do pleasure to be. Thanks for having us. And my thanks to both justin harrison and jared allen for joining us today to clarify that situation if you wanna learn more about ao pa and their legal services program just to ao pa dot org. I heard just a couple of updates wanna mention something nice. That happened a few months ago. I am holding a very nice heavy glass award that was given out by cirrus aircraft earlier. This year they have a Serious safety award that they give out to one person in the entire world and guess what what has by name on it. It says a serious approach safety award twenty twenty. I know last year that it was given out to collectively all the instructors in the c- triple p. program that's a series pilot proficiency program which is taught by instructors through Copa the circus owner pilots association. I'll go ahead include a picture of this in the chapter markers but i wanna. Thanks very much for this award. And by the way when they gave this to me they cited this podcast in particular and the millions of downloads. That it's had in its contribution to safety around the world for pilots not just flying cirrus aircraft but to all aircraft. So anyway this is a very meaningful to me and Actually got pictures of my my favorite to airplanes on their its engraved the vision jet in the twenty two speaking of the vision jet. I was out flying in one today. Great fun brand. New airplane at san jose that had all of twenty hours on it. It just came out from the factory but need to get relocated to the owners home airport and it was At san jose because that's where they dropped off the instructor pilot who came out with the owner from the factory. And so i got to move it out to the central valley short flight but Quite fun the aircraft is just beautiful and it still has that new airplanes smell inside which really made it special as well Nice flight out of san jose. They asked me if i wanted to take off their section delta which i think leaves you with seven thousand feet. Now take the full length. I just like to use full length whenever i can if you think about it this way if you had some kind of issue after you got in the air and we're still at low altitude if you still have a few extra thousand feet of runway you might be able to put it back down on the ground and if that were to happen after i had run out of runway because i took intersection delta. Well that would be kinda sad. So i use the fooling the runway. Just build that little extra margin and safety into that take off so that was great fun and i posted a very short video on my facebook. Page show showing what the view looks like from up there in the vision jet and it's beautiful class cockpit. And i mentioned a couple of weeks ago that i started adding chapter markers and photos to help you navigate the show so i thanks to patrons supporters stephen ilab larry. No we end albert. Who gave feedback saying yes. They liked them. I have feedback from someone else. Who said they're not that big a deal. Which i think is probably true that i looked at my phone and i found that Get after a few seconds listing. The screen goes dark. And you don't even see the photos or the chapter markers So i mentioned. I include them so the time. But don't count on all the time by the way josh in illinois corrected me. He said that the overcast app. At least on does support chapters and the photos that i uploaded and he is absolutely correct on that. I found that when i was in the overcast app. I was just on the wrong screen. But if i swiped i could then find the photos that uploaded and perhaps a month ago i mentioned a show coming up on nova which was postponed But it's not going to be out later this week. It's called the great electric airplane race. It's on npr on the nova program with miles. O'brien and it's not about a race. I thought that's what it was instead. It says they look at an array of promising new electric airplanes. And they take you for right in some impressive prototypes. That are already in the air. So it's not a race like a traditional race but it's just all about electric aircraft and how they're doing so It's going to air on. Wednesday may twenty six or check your local. Pbs station by the way. There was an earlier episode just a few days ago on. Nove called hindenburg. The new evidence and fascinating. They look at it. A new piece of film on the hindenburg. There was taken from a different angle than all the previous footage that people have seen and they did a number of experiments in which they built mockups of the construction of the outer airbag wrapped around You know the airframe and in the testing they believe that came up with the answer to the eighty year. Old question of where that spark came from that ignited the hydrogen causing the disaster. The answer is at once. They dropped those ropes to the ground. The hindenburg became essentially a huge capacitors storing electrical charges because it was raining and there was a lightning in the area and because of the construction there were little tiny sparks created all throughout the entire superstructure and one of those sparks unfortunately happened in the near a leak in the hydrogen. So that's a fascinating episode. You may want to check it out. Check your local listings for pbs on wednesday. May the twenty six. And here's a quick email. I got from eric earhart. Who's a phd. He says maxed episode one. Eighty one you mentioned. Alpa's april see green challenge which was about landing at the airports with grass runways. He said that. I've computed the shortest tour of all airports with a mistake by solving the travelling salesman problem. Which of course is a classic problem of how somebody could have the minimum distance to travel to a number of different cities. He's figured out how to do that for all airports for each state he says i have subsets for paved runways and grass dirt strips. I've included maps tables and even km l. files to read into google earth to plan your route. This is an approximation to the quickest way to get the most grass strip check kids and he gives a web address here that you can go to go to a tiny you are l. dot com slash pilot hyphen s. p. And i'll take you to a really fascinating map of all these little paths that assurance routes around each state visit in your state. And if you end up doing that lepe now. We'll talk about it here on the show and eric says he's a member of the cooperative crossroads flying club the oldest wine club in new mexico. Eric thanks for sending that. And here's a little inside baseball. Before i started doing this podcast. I had no idea how much time it would take a good thing. I didn't know. Because if i had known frankly i probably wouldn't have started it. It's probably about twenty hours a week which you can think of as basically half a workweek so that's time when i can't be out to teaching which is my main way to make a living so i am highly appreciative to everyone who takes just a couple minutes out of their time to send a little. Thank you for doing the show by signing up to support the show financial either through patriotic or pay pal. So let me mention people who have signed up in the last two weeks to support the show. Several people who have signed up at the twenty dollars a month level. They include mallory fuller salvatori sadate andrew. Hayek and steve bloom and jamie gamble Prior supporters edited their pledges up to twenty dollars a month. Thanks so much that means they now have access to all of the bonus videos that i've posted through a patriot. Other new supporters include timothy. Gentleman zachary israel and greg kevin and a sign of a patriot. Just go out to aviation newstalk dot com slash awesome l. Take you just a couple minutes to select to support level into enter your credit card. We also have several one time donations. And if you'd like to make just a one time donation that's an easy thing to do. Go out to aviation news talk dot com slash pal. Think about how much you might pay for an hour flight. Instruction you might consider a sending that along as a monthly donation and we have some one time donations from dirk frothiness. One hundred dollars. Mahesh saint karen one hundred dollars. Mike blade fifty dollars rebecca salsbury and anthony pit. Thank you so much for all of your donations. And of course we have our mega supporters who donate fifty dollars a month up. They get a free book from after two months. They include brian deer. Who recently moved to the houston texas area. He has a turbo two six matsuda. Who's a computer engineer. Who worked for embraer in brazil now in chicago and a student pilot flying a one fifty two out of chicago executive airport tyson weiss co founder and ceo of four flight which is a popular efg app purse dickerson. He's a financial planner living in georgia and he flies a kc thirty-five dave rochet. He recently retired from the navy and just working on his instrument rating and the turkey. One forty the navy flying club in jacksonville. Kent moskva white misty on a two thousand seven series at the alpine air park in wyoming and have a passion for helping others by flying volunteer missions for angel. Flight victor vocal. He's a doc in central. Pa flies a cirrus. Tim delaney wealth manager in eagle. Idaho flies a turbo. Sr twenty two nd of napa. Stephen ila who by the way appears on the cover of my brand new g. Three thousand and g five thousand glass cockpit handbook. He flies a turbo one. Eighty to a citation. Cj three plus. He's the ceo of api jet. Mike williams he's the president of tcp composites. They composites spinners and bulkheads for g aircraft. And he flies a one. Seventy two seth like. He's a dp giving check rides. And he specializes in teaching the multi engine rating. So if you're interested in getting your multi engine rating and can travel to arkansas checkout vs l. dot. Aero rick miller instructs in the cincinnati area both out of the lumpkin flight training center and with private owners of piper processes beechcraft and scotus love to teach fulltime but still has that day job just in winters he brokers real estate on lake chio in south carolina and flies in sr twenty two carlin an rossi of maine coon cat aviation. They've got a pair of cessna t to forties and a piper m three fifty on order. Johnny mcdaid he's a singer songwriter. Musician and record producer. Jim goldfarb's flying out of the public airport on long island. He's training for his. Cfi and meanwhile as teaching as a ground instructor at the pilot proficiency international he can also be reached on his facebook page of ground. Point nine if you'd like to get individual instruction online vincent salimi vice mayor for the city of panel. He's the owner of cellini. Construction management in san francisco and president of the concord flying club the oldest continually operating club west of the mississippi. Jim hop he's a cfi teaches advantage aviation at the palo. Alto airport joseph if she hand flew in the navy for eight years now has a few hundred hours in his new vision. Jet josie freeman. He's working on his instrument rating dylan caldwell. He's an ame. he gets medical exam. So if you're looking for your basic med second or third class like physical and you are. Near naples florida you can contact them at aviation tours clinic dot com william birch donates to the show in the memory of his son. Lieutenant j g wall speech was a naval aviator don hak-lae with professional instrument courses. They conduct ten-day instrument courses. I if our finish up an afar refresher courses check them out at. I fly i. F r dot com don dilmun. He's a professional pilot. Who runs an airline flight department. He's also csi. and flies. A bonanza rick. Madison owner of point wise which makes cfd simulation software used by aerospace companies. You can find them at point. Wise dot com. John postel lives in flint michigan. And he rents some of the planes at the greater flint pilots association. He also cohen's turkey six. That's been updated with garmin g three x. 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Airport new york in a friend of created a website to make free flight. Planning modern and fast. The site is called flyway. And you can check it out at flyweight dot c ed kelly flies a saratoga out of mount pleasant south carolina and says his two year old son bennett is the best co-pilot he could have. Jeff brown is one of our supporters. Michael ron he runs a small wealth management firm and woodland texas and you can find them at the some planning dot com. And he's thinking about buying a serious todd cuss he lives in arizona and flies in sr twenty two increase carnahan. Who's president of boone valley forest products and flies. Veto bonanza out of spirit airport in saint. Louis thanks to everyone who contributes to the show in whatever way you do and if you love the show and you'd like to sport us other ways well you can head on out to your podcast app and believe a five star review. 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165 How to get a Helicopter License and a Job Flying Helicopters + GA News

Aviation News Talk podcast

1:10:13 hr | 10 months ago

165 How to get a Helicopter License and a Job Flying Helicopters + GA News

"Logan and welcome to aviation news talk a weekly show with relevant news and flying tips for pilots student pilots to help keep you safe. I'm extra Scott for our main topic. Today we'll be talking with Steve Bush owner of Lonestar helicopters about how to get a helicopter certificate about the job market for flying helicopters and guess what I'm back to teaching in the air it. I'll tell you about my recent flights and the precautions I've been taking. Last week and episode one, Sixty four, we talked about the dramatic National Guard helicopter rescues of more than four hundred people who were trapped by wildfires in California, and we talked with both the rescuers and some rescue ease to give you both perspectives on that story. So if you didn't hear it, you may want to check it out. And if the Evian News talk podcast is new to you in whatever APP you're using the listen to it's now just click on the subscribe button so that new episodes will download for free each week I think you'll enjoy today's discussion about learning to fly helicopters and you won't WanNa Miss Future shows. This week in the news the airlines are laying off thousands of employees. Though just after I finished recording this show I heard some good news, which is that Fedex has just announced plans to hire over eight hundred and forty five pilots in the next eighteen months. A pilot in the US gets prison time for lying about an accident and a criminal makes a big mistake when he tries to hijack a helicopter to get his wife out of prison. Now, that's true. Love all this and more and the news starts now. This show usually focuses on generally va shen but. Are Training to become airline pilots and right now there's a major downturn in the industry which is affecting some of the listeners who work in the airline industry and it certainly affects the hopes and dreams of those who want to one day work for the airline industry. Airlines have trimmed schedules. They're currently running on average about fifty percent of the number of flights that were running this time a year ago. And we've got a number of different stories here related to the airlines in the current, the coronavirus pandemic downturn the US Treasury said, it has closed loans to seven large airlines hit hard by the coronavirus urged Congress, to save tens of thousands of airline job by extending billions in payroll systems. Treasury. said in a statement that the seven carriers were Alaska Airlines, American Airlines, Frontier Airlines jet blue, Hawaiian Airlines Sky West and United Airlines. Airlines unions are still heavily lobbying Congress for a new twenty, five billion dollars bailout keep workers on the payroll for another six months. But industry officials acknowledged they face an uphill battle. From Planning Pilot magazine Delta received five point four billion through the cares act and it had signed a letter of intent with the possibility of taking up four point six, billion dollar loan through the federal aid program. It has since stated that it does not intend to take the loan instead taking on six point five billion dollars in debt backed by their Sky Miles Program Most of the roughly seventy five, thousand airline workers won't face job cuts. Thanks to voluntary leave of absences, buyouts, and shorter schedules and more than forty thousand airlines employees signed up for revering voluntarily leaves. However, Delta still plans to furlough more than nineteen hundred pilots, but is still negotiating cost-cutting measures with their union and that's been delayed until November, the first. At United Airlines pilots agreed to a deal that will spare almost three thousand pilots from furloughs through at least June pile degree Dork fewer hours with the most junior pilots who are greatest risk for furloughs facing the greatest reductions according to the union representing United Three thousand pilots the Airline Pilots Association. Earlier chicago-based United warranted plan to furlough two, thousand, eight, hundred, fifty of its thirteen, thousand pilots along with thirteen thousand, five hundred employees in other roles at South West CEO Gary Kelly said that in order to avoid any furloughs amidst the pandemic, all employees will need to take ten percent pay cuts in twenty, twenty one, the airline hasn't furloughed or laid off any workers during the crisis it said the ten percent reduction for Non Union employees will go into effect January first Kelly said he wants union members to make similar sacrifice. And American Airlines had to furlough in nineteen thousand employees. CEO Doug Parker wrote in a letter to the employees I'm extremely sorry. We have to reach this outcome. It is not what you deserve. Alaskan airlines federal government loan worth up to six, hundred, million and staffing measures adopted this summer have helped Alaska lower. It's layoffs to just five hundred and thirty two workers not thousands of employees that had forecast earlier. The. SEATAC based airline already cut two, hundred, thirty, three jobs this summer and the remaining two, hundred, ninety, nine job cuts. Will it flight attendants this month? In having been laid off myself at one point in my career, I wanna pass along my condolences and also my best wishes to anyone listening who's been affected by these furloughs. It's definitely disconcerting when it occurs but I know that you will get through it though it may not be easy. These are frankly tough times, but they're not unprecedented I think most pilots no the airline industry has always been cyclical and it would be pretty unusual for someone to go through an entire career, the airlines without having passed through a period when some pilots were being furloughed. And that's why many pilots will have backup careers. For example, my wife's cousin as for your sold real estate is a side job to being a captain at one of the big four airlines here in the US and many pilots furloughed will resume prior careers as flight instructors. And for young people who are planning on an airline career while don't get distracted by this, it's really just a temporary setback. Now is really the time for you to stay focused on your goal and just continue to work toward this tickets and ratings at you'll need to continue building hours. However, you can to the fifteen hundred hours that you're going to someday need to apply for an airline job. If you're patient I'm quite sure you will someday get that job, but it will probably take a few more years to achieve than you had originally planned. It as for the pilots who are being furloughed. Now in the short term, not all of them are going to be able to find a job in aviation now, and we'll have to leave the industry to find employment at least in the short term. which brings us to our next story. This comes from PC D. N. DOT CO grounded pilots land jobs in agriculture. grinded pilots are literally going back to the Australia where they're finding work driving huge agricultural harvesters Australia's expecting a bumper crop of grains and other commodities at the same time that the covid nineteen pandemic is causing an acute labor shortage on farms, and while it might seem like a strange transition from an airliner cockpit to the cab of lumbering farmers. Sheen's there are lot of parallel skills said farmer Amanda Thomas who set up a facebook page to recruit out of work pilots. Quote pilot spend a lot of time operating machinery. That's kind of their core job. Thomas told The Guardian and whether it's an airplane or an agricultural machine, it's all the same. Modern farm equipment has some technology that will be familiar to pilots. Most of huge harvesters have GPS receivers connected autopilots that ensure the machine scour the fields efficiently. The operator monitors those and other systems as the machine cruises over the landscape. Andrew King rid the left seat of Hainan Airlines aircraft the cab of Harvester and he's looking forward to getting back to work quote. They've recognized the transferability of the skillset of an airline pilot someone who could operate heavy equipment in learn large amounts of information quickly and remain proficient he said. And from generally ation news dot com, the FAA introduces Aircraft Pilot Workload Development Program. The FAA committed five million dollars to its new aircraft pilots, Workforce Development, Grant Program the program is designed to expand the pilot workforce and help high school students receive training to become pilots, aerospace engineers, or unmanned aircraft systems. Operators program also prepares teachers to train students for jobs in the aviation industry. The unveiling of this program follows the unveiling of a similar program for aviation maintenance technicians. In Fiscal Year Twenty Twenty Congress appropriated five million dollars to create and deliver training curriculum to address the projected shortage of aircraft pilots. Eligible groups can apply for grants from twenty, five, thousand to half a million. The types of projects supported under the aircraft pilots Workforce Development krantz program includes create and deliver a curriculum designed to provide high school students with a meaningful aviation education designed to prepare them to become aircraft pilots, aerospace engineers, or aircraft systems. Operators eligibility for this grant project includes the delivery of existing training curriculum. Support. The professional development of teachers using the above curriculum and Congress has also directed the FAA to ensure that the applications selected for projects established under this program allow for participation from a diverse collection of public and private schools in rural suburban and urban areas. Entities eligible to apply for the grants, include air carriers or Labor organizations representing aircraft pilot's flight schools that provide flight training accredited higher education institutions or secondary schools or high schools, state or local government entities organizations representing aircraft users aircraft owners are aircraft pilots. F. A. Officials not agency does not have authority to award grants beyond the stated purpose or to provide scholarships or any former financial assistance directly individual applicants although the selected entities may offer scholarship opportunities as a funded activity. Those interested in scholarship opportunities are encouraged to visit the F., A., A. Grants and scholarships page and will include only to that in the show notes. From Fire Aviation Dot Com a three thousand gallon and night flying firefighting helicopters now working in southern California. The twenty seven shook very large Hella tanker operated by Colson, aviation is working under eighty-three day contract and collaboration with Southern California Edison and the Orange County fire. Authority. Registered as November four to Charlie uniform, the night-flying should knuckle be crude twenty, four, seven and available for responses day and night within the fifteen counties. The daily availability cost two, point one, million for the contract period are being paid by southern California Edison while the hourly costs will be covered by the agencies responsible for the fire protection where the fires occur. The Chinook will be based at the Los Alamos Joint Forces Training Base. In Orange County it can fill it's three thousand gallon internal tank while on the ground or while hovering over a water or retardant source using retractable snorkel hose as a comparison, the to Orange County. Fire Authority Bell for twelve EP helicopters are capable of dropping up to three hundred and seventy five gallons what our capacities of some. Other helicopters the bell to fourteen be six, hundred, sixty gallons kmox seven hundred gallons fire Hawk s dash seventy, I one thousand gallons and the s sixty, four, Sky Crane, twenty, six, hundred and fifty gallons. If you heard last week, show about the National Guard helicopter rescues here in California. you heard Colonel Dave Hall predict will be seeing more night firefighting in the future and it looks like it's already begun. From. Generally, Nation News Dot com pilot on the wrong frequency hits another plane while landing. The private pilot of the Piper airplane with a pastor onboard was landing at the airport and CBS Florida while the student pilot of the diamond with flight instructor on board was performing touching goes on an intersecting runway in Dave. EMC. Conditions both airplanes were flying in left traffic patterns for their respective runways at the non towered airport. The pilot and the student pilot and the diamond reported announced every leg of the traffic pattern on the reports published SEATAC frequency. The diamond landed in just when the student was adding power to initiate a take off the left wing of the Piper, which was landing in flaring just a few feet above the runway hit the tail of the diamond. The flight instructor in the diamond said he was looking for the Piper. After he sought flying in the vicinity of the airport but that he never saw it in the airport traffic pattern while the pilot Piper did not report seeing the diamond until just before the collision. According to the airport SEATAC shows that radio calls from the diamond were heard for every leg of the airport traffic pattern on the public- taff frequency before the collision but only to garbled radio calls from the Piper were hurt on the public- taft frequency. Post accident examination of the pipers transceiver revealed that it was set to a different frequency. A Piper. Transceiver was then set to the correct staff frequency and the communication was clear. Therefore, it is likely that the pile of the Piper failed to use the correct see taft frequency when he announced his airplanes position in the airport traffic pattern. Probably, caused coordinator the NTSB the inability of the pilot of the Piper and the student pilot and flight instructor the diamond to see avoid the other airplane contributing to the collision was the Piper pilots failure to use the correct. SEATAC. Frequency to announce his aircraft's position. And I'll include included link to that report in the show notes. From vertical MAG dot, com abidine in deadly and partner on detective avoid systems for GE aircraft. The avionics manufacturer Abidine is teaming up with deadly in, and that spelled D. d. a. l. e. a. n., the Swiss. Artificial intelligence startup to develop a detective avoid system for g aircraft using deadly INS computer vision technology. Deadly, in evidence detective would system is designed as several cameras at a powerful computational unit interface to other aircraft electronics. The product will detect both airborne and ground hazards. Evident already offers traffic advisory products for airplanes, helicopters, but these active surveillance systems only detect aircraft that are equipped with transponders or a DSP by contrast deadly in is using a specific form of artificial intelligence or a I constitutional neural networks to analyze visual images from high resolution cameras in a way that can identify potential hazards, such a small drones that aren't broadcasting their position. Ultimately deadly and aims to develop an AI based autopilot that will enable future aircraft to fly autonomously for now, the detective avoid system is developing without dime will function as a pilot assistance tool, which means it could find its way into existing cockpits within the next few years. According to deadly NCO Luc van. Dyke the company's Computer Vision Technology is. At technology readiness level six meaning, it's been demonstrated in a relevant environment. The collaboration with Abidine will take it through the next steps to commercialization benefiting from evidence experience in hardware design and certification. According to. The companies are hoping to have a product ready for the market by twenty, twenty two. Tom Harper evident predicted that the detection avoid system will be a particular interest to helicopter operators because the potential for conflict with small drones at the low altitudes were helicopters fly the US NTSB reported in July that it has completed three investigations were collision with a drone was confirmed and gathered information onto other collisions where the evidence was consistent with a drone strike. Longer term, both companies have their eye on the EV tall and urban air mobility markets. From generally news dot com perfect liquid probe measures fuel level with a tra- sonic technology. Radiant instruments new perfect level probe or pl P is a sensor that mounts on the top of the tank. It uses ultrasonic technology to determine the distance between the sensor and the liquid in the tank. It's compatible with almost all liquid types including gasoline, jet fuel, diesel, and water according to company officials. James, we be CEO of radiant technology said our new perfectly quid pro represents a true breakthrough in fuel measurement. It eliminates problems associated with all traditional fuel probes. It is impervious to change a fluid types and requires no calibration other than to set the empty point on your tank. Other than two holes in the top of the tank no probes rods floats were wires enter the tank. He explained the ultrasonic probe heads are metal not plastic unlike traditional fuel probes. The output of the P. L. P. is a digital serial stream Pierre designed to be compatible with radiance fuel gauges only. So the pilots whose fuel level information feel usage trends and more Moravia the fuel gauges display. The perfect probes available for order with for Shipman slated for late October and the price is two hundred and fifty dollars. From PC, N. DOT CO pilot gets prison time for obstructing accident investigation. A pilot has been sentenced to a year in prison for lying to federal investigators following the August fourteen crash of Ryan Navien hey doing apart one, thirty, five sightseeing flight near Cold Foot Alaska the instrument rated commercial pilot. Is Forest cursed and three passengers were seriously injured in the accident. One passenger died of his injuries thirty five days after the crash. According to the NTSB's final report on the accident cursed initially told first responders that he had encountered a severe downdraft while approaching mountain pass. The report states a two weeks. Later he told interviewers, the accident was caused by a passenger becoming unresponsive and slumping onto the flight controls after taking a motion sickness pill. A written statement submitted about two months after the accident claim that the crash was the result of a pillar blades separating in-flight. Cursed the widow, the deceased passenger and two surviving passengers Fata a lawsuit in two thousand, sixteen against the company sold curse propeller and propeller manufacturer Hartselle. The suit alleged that the propeller was not safe for flight and should not have been put into service the ESPN report which was published in March two thousand seventeen noted that evidence indicated the propeller blades separated on impact. The board found that the crash was caused by the pilots quote improper in Flight Planning and improper decision to deliberately operate the aircraft at low altitude in close proximity to obstruction rising terrain. Chris Lawsuit was dismissed in two thousand eighteen the FAA revoked curse pilots ticket in March two thousand fifteen the NTSB the as decision to issue a part one, thirty five certificate to the operator. In spite of quote the pilots history of accidents. Incidents re examinations in check ride failures as a contributing factor in the crash. In December two thousand seventeen curse was charged with two counts of obstructing the accident investigation and one count of operating aircraft without a valid certificate. He was convicted of both counts of obstruction in found not guilty of flying without a valid certificate in November two, thousand nineteen. And finally, from our stupid criminals, file man arrested over jailbreak attempt after helicopter booking blunder this comes from the Guardian. Dot Com. Mike Gillan twenty-four made up pretty big mistake when he used his real name book helicopter to attempt to break his wife out of Brussels jail in. Belgium. Keelan threatened the helicopter pilot using a replica handgun as he sought to spring crystal, applet twenty-seven from Birkin Doll wiggins prison in south Brussels where she was being held on suspicion of get this murdering an ex-boyfriend, the helicopter circle, the prison several times but villains plan was foiled is the pilot was unable to land within the courtyard when the helicopter flew over the prison, the inmates cheered and waved, but Keelan became nauseous had to put his head out the helicopter five times to be sick. The pilot was then instructed to fly to. Town, south of the Belgian capital where a getaway car was waiting in the car park Keelan later found with his fifty year old adoptive father, the two men and a further two suspects. Age Eighteen and twenty two were arrested within twenty four hours of the failed prison break after detectives found Gillan had used his own name when the helicopter. Gillian's lawyer Tom. Overbeck. Said I can confirm that my client admitted that he wanted to free his wife from prison. It seems the whole thing has been staged quite amateurishly. The four men will appear before an investigating judge in Antwerp on charges of theft with violence with a weapon participation in a criminal organization, unlawful deprivation of liberty and attempted escape. Gillan WHO's a convicted drug smuggler met and married his wife in the mixed gender hassle to prison last year. When both crystal and I had visitors in January two, thousand nineteen, we bumped into each other in the visitors area. Keelan told the HET. Belong. Van Limburg newspaper last year we still knew each other from before but hadn't seen each other for a long time because we could never see each other we started taking computer lessons in prison that was the only way to be together. Apple is still in jail on suspicion of stabbing to death Andy Event Right thirty during a street fight in December two, thousand eighteen. Well that's the news for this week, coming up my weekly updates, and then we'll get onto our main topic, which is about what it takes to get a helicopter certificate and about the jobs available to helicopter pilots. All right here on the aviation news talk podcast. And now here's a fun flying destination recorded by David. Johnson about the bow string. MINNESOTA AIRPORT says the string in airport nine. Yankees zero in north central Minnesota. This is not a place to go for shopping or a one hundred dollar hamburger. Let's bring your own meat. This is a turf strip that's maintained by the area and it's been threatened all those cutting a big shot in the arm because the recreational aviation fundation set up a nice little campsite immediately adjacent to the runway. We were able to park right next to the campsite which I've never done before. We had our club one, eighty two packed the rafters with our folding bikes and screen tent and all that, and we might around the adjacent resort and cabins because it's right on train link. The airport also boasts an old but quite serviceable mobile home that has a shower in it kitchen grill go there's fuel on the field, but it's a very nice place to just sit watch the TV's by the airport property can't recommend it enough. Thanks for all you do Max looking forward to the next episode. David thank you so very much for taking the time to share that with all of us in. If you have a favorite destination and I'm sure you do someplace that's close by that you love to go to and it makes you smile why don't you share it with all of us here? David did it's very easy. Just take your smartphone look for the voice memo APP and then record for about ninety seconds telling us about your favorite fund flying destination than e mail that recording to me at aviation news talk at gmail.com. Or you can also just go out on the Web Aviation News Talk Dot Com Click on listener question at the top of the page, and then you'll use our speak pipe pap to record up to ninety seconds, and that file will get sent to me automatically, and as I, look at the Q. Here, we have just one more recording left. So please send some more otherwise we'll run out of these pretty quickly. And now here's an update on my flying activity. As you probably know, I stayed at home for several months of the pandemic, and then I returned to teaching only in the simulator where I can stay about six feet away from the clients I'm working with and those are all people working on instant ratings and while they can do twenty hours or so in the simulator, they eventually need to get at least twenty. Hours of instruments instruction in an airplane. So what I recently decided to do was to return to teaching in airplanes but I'm only working with one client at a time to reduce the chance of spreading covert among my clients inmate. So after I returned from Knoxville and early September I spent the next three weeks just flying with a New Vision jet owner who wanted to accumulate some time in his plane before it. Went to Knoxville to type rating. So we flew for three weeks in September, and then this past weekend I, flew with him to Knoxville and his vision jet or he is now halfway through his two weeks of vision jet type training. Now that flight on the vision jet was great we flew three legs we stopped in Scottsdale Arizona and Tulsa Oklahoma for fuel we picked up a very tiny amount of ice as. We were going into Tulsa was the only significant weather. We had the entire flight. Now, the only challenge I on that flight was getting the pilot to send faster and slow up as we were arriving in Scottsdale. He was routinely using thousand foot permanent descent as we came down from Flight Level two seven zero and I was able to show him on the map that by the time we finished our initial descent. Much too close to our destination to lose the additional altitude we would need in subsequent to sense. So I think he cranked it up to about fifteen hundred feet per minute and pull the power completely off, which is what we needed. As it was we were still high when we joined the final, but we were able to get down in time. And I must say I just love flying in the mid West on our first leg the Scottsdale there was just hotson chatter on the radio as we went through La Center and later talked to Phoenix approach. But for the next two legs, we got very simple direct rulings and the controllers weren't busy at all, which gave us time to talk in the cockpit inches. Relax we arrived in Knoxville on Saturday night and I flew back home via the airlines at nine am on Sunday morning. So that was my second trip to Knoxville three weeks and this time fortunately, there were no long delays with my flight as the were when I flew there in September. I change planes in. Charlotte. North Carolina and the terminal was absolutely packed on Sunday morning. In just like last time, there were times on the flight when I saw people who weren't properly masks, for example, there might have been sticking out above their mask. I wore I protection again and I noticed there were two other people within a couple rows of me who are also wearing face shields. And like my last airline flight three weeks ago after being home for about five days, I went to get a Cova test which just came back today negative. So as I said, once before I think you can fly fairly safely on the airlines these days, but you will want to wear a mask and keep it on all the time. I'm now in the middle of a two week period where I'm flying with another client to get the twenty hours, he needs an airplane before his instrument check ride. So we flew for several hours every day on Monday through Thursday last week, and we're scheduled to fly again every day next week, and after we finish on Friday Alvin start flying with another client for two weeks to help him finish his instrument rating. So. As you can see 'em subtly doing a lot of flying over the past four weeks, which has kept me quite busy and frankly happier is I just love to be up in the air teaching. Now here, a couple of other items will find share with you though this is just for pilots flying in northern California though it had a funny headline I think you'll enjoy it says we're seeking KELP KELP LP not help. Northern California has lost an astonishing ninety percent of its kelp forests in just a few short years due to climate and other impacts. This fall our colleagues at the greater fairlawn association or mapping the extent of remaining Kelp forest to understand where recovery efforts should be focused. Pilots are in a unique position to help take photos of any kelp from your plane in. September October and capture vital information from areas that are tough to reach from land. Just follow these three simple tips one capture the full extent of the Kelp bed if possible to record the locations, GPS coordinates and three make sure to fly above a thousand foot ag L. to avoid impacting coastal wildlife, Senate photos or questions to Info at Seabird Protection Network Dot Org. And for those of you who are aspiring to be airline pilots I just read that the fifth edition of the ATP, Oral Exam Guide has now available and that's a book that I use when I worked on my ATP man almost twenty years ago I guess the latest edition includes information to comply with the ATP Airman Certificate Standards The ACS as well as with advisory circular sixty, one, dash one, thirty, eight, airline transport pilot certification training. program. More than a hundred pages of new content have been added with chapters, dedicated system operations, performance, and limitations whether information high-altitude aerodynamics, air carrier operations, human factors, and regulations. According to ASA, which publishes the book. Appendices provide the FAA's ATP airplane multi-engine applicant qualifications job aid in the practical test checklist the guide is now available in soft cover and e book formats for fourteen dollars, ninety five cents, and I'll have a link to that in the show notes. In case you want to purchase a copy. Also like to give a couple of shoutouts. First, one is to the Daniel Boone Flying Club in Bougainville Missouri. They have about thirty members and three aircraft in their Club, a Cessna one, eighty R. G. A. Cardinal and a one, seventy two. So if you live in central Missouri where near Boone Ville you might WANNA consider joining their club. I gave a presentation to the group on Sunday via the Internet which was quite fun. A some other members listened to aviation news talk and ask if I give a presentation which I was happy to do. In, other quick shot to a Patriot supporter palmy truck costas who's based handsome field outside of Boston Paul your son Elias wrote to me many months ago and said quote my father is a big fan of your podcast and listen to them regularly I was hoping that it might be possible for you to give him a father's Day shout out in one of your upcoming podcast. So Paul here. It is a belated happy father's Day to you, and I must say what a great son you have. Thanks so much for contacting me Elias. And I also want to thank a number of listeners have contacted me and told me how much the show helps them with their flying. For example, I just got this message from a new Patriot supporter Jeff. Martin. Who wrote I'm a new student pilot I literally signed up on Wednesday coincidentally, I'm new to podcast into yours, which is the first I've ever subscribed to as a green student I. Appreciate, hearing things in context not just out of textbook, the interviews live ATC and briefings make learning so much faster and that much more interesting episode one, Fifty eight should get you a radio award by the way that was the episode with my interview of the student pilot. In Australia AMAC's Sylvester who's see if I passed out of Max's third flight lesson and he had to land the airplane himself. He Continues Jeff Says Anyway thank you for your show I provided a monthly four dollars stipend to show you my appreciation don't be surprised when I bump it up. I. Listen To you every moment I'm not studying working eating and sleeping and he says it's more hours than you think have a great night. Well, thank you so much for that Jeff and welcome to aviation I. Think you're going to have the time of your life so study hard and enjoy the process. 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He runs a company called brain spring that helps kids with dyslexia and I want to thank all of you for your contributions and thank everyone who helps support the show in any way. Now, in a moment, we'll be talking about what it takes to get a helicopter certificate and what the job market is like for helicopter pilots right here on the aviation news talk podcast. Now let me tell you a little bit about Steve. Steve got his start in aviation at the age of twelve washing helicopters after school and as a part time summer job at the Whiteman airport just north of Los Angeles this led to helicopter lessons and now more than thirty years. Later, he's the owner of Lonestar helicopters in Lago, Vista, Texas located, just northwest of Austin. What he's not flying helicopters he's a fulltime ems paramedic and captain for a local town Steve. Welcome to the show. It is great to have you. Here thanks for having me maximum. I'm excited. This is great. I had a number of folks over the past few years who said, yeah, you gotTa talk about helicopters on the show and this'll be one of the first times we've done that. So so thanks for coming along. Yeah. So really. So let's talk about what it takes to get a helicopter certificate because I'm sure that's probably the first thing in people's minds. What are the FAA requirements for getting a helicopter private? Well. You're GONNA, find the requirements under part sixty, one, one, zero nine, which is where you're gonNA find the airplane requirements as well, and essentially it's a very closely mirrored to what the airplane requirements are you going to a total of forty hours under a part sixty one school Twenty hours of that is required to be dual ten hours of it is required to be a solo on your own, and then the other ten hours are generally made up of preparatory work or some of the students weaknesses in what they need to prep for the the ride and I, think everybody knows that forty hours is the minimum. Certainly airplanes people end up with more than that. What's kind of? The typical range of ours that people end up when they get their private in what drives, that WH- take some people longer than others. So all the requirements for helicopters were really based off of the airplane requirements. If you look anywhere in the far aim, you're gonNA see a lot of mention about the airplanes and it's not until you get down to the bottom of the regulations where it says except for helicopters. Helicopters can do this or this doesn't apply to helicopters special be far for an example, doesn't apply to helicopters as far as not being able to get it at any time you can request it at any time but yes, a typically people get their license about fifty hours seems to be difficult I. Don't I'm hearing more and more than in the airplane world fixed-wing world that taken people closer to the fifty hour mark in I. Don't know what that what that's caused by. Like you said and like the regulation say the forty hours is really minimum. I have had one of my students get. It is little as four three hours. But for the most part, the average is around fifty hours or so in helicopters I can say they're quite a bit different than airplanes. There's a lot more moving parts in just getting the actual hand. Eye Coordination Down to fly the helicopter is probably typically what takes a little bit more time. Now on top of that, you know it has to do with people schedule. Everybody's busy whether you have a job or a family or your own school or whatever. It might be. You know the more consistent you are in your training, the bathroom it's GonNa go typically. Nowadays, it other than when you and I flew. It's pretty nice because we have the Internet and we have. Why a few programs on that, you can take ground school online whether it be three o'clock in the afternoon or three o'clock in the morning whatever works for you, and then you and I. Can. Sit Down with our students and do information clarification making sure that people understand what they're learning. What about folks like me? Who have a airplane certificate and actually have one helicopter lesson on my belt Bell let's forget about that. What are the our the requirements different for someone who's already a pilot? Yeah. So right there the requirements are thirty hours flight time twenty hours of dual and ten hours of Solo. For the most part. All My ad on students are still taking somewhere in the forty hour range to fifty hour range, just depending on their schedule but the the minimum requirements drop by ten hours. Now, if you go to a part one, forty, one school that typical forty hours initially drops down to thirty five hours. That being said it still minimum the way I run my flight school as far as the education the syllabus recording I run at very much like a part one, forty, one school. So from a learning skill standpoint airplane pilots at any kind of a disadvantage because we need to unlearn things that we thought we knew. Well. I can tell you go on the opposite way for sure since I did that getting my helicopter first and then my but yeah. So there are two things that really pop out my head. One of the things is you know airspeed is our lifeline in an airplane in a helicopter that's not the case rotor RPM. Line the one of the. GonNa Notice with new pilots or on pilots. I should say when they're coming in for approach, they don't like getting slow whereas one. You know what you do when you coming on approach whether we're practicing shallower, not steep approaches whatever they may be we end in a hover. And airplane pilots don't like when you touch the ground. You're still going down the runway though is just getting them to understand that it's okay to lose airspeed because it's rotor RPM that we're concerned with the other thing is in a stall or an engine failure. One of the first things they tell you to push forward to regain airspeed don't do that in a helicopter, particularly a two bladed rotor system helicopter because that'll put you into A. Low gravity situation, and if you're in a low gravity alone g situation, you can actually aerodynamically take take the fuselage of the aircraft and the rotor system that is no longer supporting the fuselage and you can actually snap that off similarly to over controlling an airplane in saying Arab addict situation or windy situation breaking the wings off other want things that you need a particularly watch. The other thing is we don't lead with the rudders interns. We don't have rudders we have pedals, but they're anti Torque pedals in that strictly to keep the ball centered if you will or to keep the nose pointed into the wind, the more power you pull. The more anti left pedal that you need an opposite that of meeting right pedal when you're taking off in an airplane. Well, I'm curious about how you got into flying I. Thought it was kind of intriguing that you started watching helicopters at the age of twelve. Did you also start taking lessons at the age of twelve I did yeah. So we moved to a new house when I was twelve years old and my neighbor across the way just happened to be helicopter pilot and when I found that out, I just handed him to take me up flying. You know sing was why haven't flown in Wyoming a flight review and so anyway? With some persistence. So this little kid knocking on the door he went and he got his flight review. And he took me at flying in in that was that was the end of it where he me where he was leasing aircrafts was at Whiteman Airport, which was down in the San Fernando Valley at L. Watson helicopters though I went down there maybe a week or two later in. Some like start washing helicopters hang around the airport with that start taking lessons once a month. So Yeah I. saw it. When I was sixteen got my private pilot when I was seventeen. And Yeah Dream Dream fulfilled. You mentioned earlier that fulltime a paramedic. Locally, and so you know my grandfather growing up he was a battalion chief for La City Fire Department and and so I grew up around the fire service and things like that and someone told me that you know you can't make your living as a helicopter pilot unless you are in the military or you work for municipality well, okay. Well, I can combine to loves now. So I joined became an EMT and start working for an ambulance company in La and then became a firefighter and a paramedic and I'd fly on the side but some of these departments that I worked for had air OPS as well. So my goal was to get my commercial my CFI. And then after that just because of the way our schedule works and we we do have a lot of time off but it's a rotating schedule on a lot of companies really can't work with that schedule if you're a new CFI. So I started my own company and started teaching people on the side and that's how I started building tone. That's great. I just imagine there's probably a twelve year old kid across the street from US been bugging you. You know I a three kids myself and I I. Wish I wish they were like me none of them are interested in flying but uh someone if someone's interested in flying your kid or I mean I'm willing to adopt the optic. That's great. I love how you were the one who was persistent in actually drove a helicopter pilot or pilot who is not current to get recurrent so he could take you. That's great. Now when you when you were watching the airplanes, how did that work? Did they give you a discounted costs on the flying lessons or they paid you or you did it in trade? What was that arrangement? Well. Think things are a lot cheaper back then yeah. I I'd worked for a month and earn enough money to I think back then earning three or four dollars an hour so as a kid but yeah, it was own assay dual in an art twenty, two, cost me eighty, five dollars an hour. Oh. Yeah. That's what I did I. It was a it was a trade per se I mean they they did pay me but I. AM The money right back. The other thing about being around the airport is you meet a lot of pilots that are are there and you make friends with them and they'll take up flying. So I mean there there're pilots that I met. That are still flying today all kinds of different industries that I met when they were getting their start and they take me up flying. The other thing is I became a mechanic's apprentice so. I can't tell you how many times I've torn in our twenty two down, put it back together under their supervision, and then I get to go up on the test flight with them but super bowl you. You brought up the twenty to talk about some of the different helicopters that are commonly used for people to learn to fly and what are some of the trade offs are differences between learning to fly in one versus another. Sure. Okay. Well. So the Robinson product which is made in Torrance California, they're probably hands down the most popular helicopter learning to fly, and so they have the are twenty two, which is a two seat trainer. They were actually intended to be a trainer. It was intended to be a personal use helicopter. They gained much popularity because of their. Cost Effectiveness. So they are twenty, two, four airplane guys out. There is basically equivalent to a Cessna one, fifty or one, fifty two. Or Piper Tomahawk and then they also have the are forty four forty four is a four seat piston engine I o five, forty engine, and they've gained a lot of popularity just because there's a bit more safety margin, you're not right on the cusp of weight and balance similar to a one hundred. Fifty, one, fifty, two. Rotor ownership things like that. So yet, I'd say the Robinson, our hands down the most popular helicopter, other helicopters that you have out there you have these sweitzer three hundred that got it start is a huge to sixty nine lot of Vietnam helicopter pilots learned on those aircraft. You have the instruments to eighty shark that's another piston helicopter that's popular out there, and then new to the scene helicopter called. The KIMBLE CABRERA GT is from France. It's a little to see Illich after Mr, gamble who designed the G. to actually worked for Airbus Rier Being Eurocopter and he designed. The EC one twenty, which is a turban helicopter. So essentially, the G. Tube is just many Piston version of the. One twenty as they say. So it's a pretty popular helicopter. It's gaining popularity here a little bit. More, expensive than say and our twenty two but you're starting to see them emerge here in the in the United States like I said, they're from France and they've been flying around France from probably the last fifteen years I personally don't have any experience with them other than sitting in them they they seem really nice really modern similar to say a serious but I. I don't have any experience with them. Let's talk about the the robinsons specifically the are twenty two in the are forty four. What are some of the typical costs for a renting those aircraft and does it is one easier to learn in and take you fewer hours to get your your licensing? So from a performance and safety margin standpoint the are forty four is a safer aircraft in that respects, and you know it really depends where you are in the United States. If you're in the La area where the market is saturated with flight schools, you're probably going to be able to rent one of those dual for four hundred, fifty up to five hundred dollars an hour you come out here in Texas you're probably looking somewhere between the five and six hundred dollar range in our. which is expensive. The are twenty two in part of the allure to the are twenty two is you're gonna be able to find those for somewhere in the ballpark of three, hundred, two, hundred, eighty, five dollars an hour duel, which is going to compete right up there with the serious as far as instruction I don't know what you're getting for serious out there. I know I checked into a school just last week I was quoted anywhere from three, hundred, four, hundred, fifty dollars an hour dry. So. But yeah. So the allure of the art twenty two is definitely the the cost of it. And it is said and I actually firmly believe this. If you can fly in our twenty two, you can pretty much fly anything. They're very sensitive on the controls and not only that, but you have the power management aspect of it similarly to a one fifty or a Tomahawk. So if you can master the are twenty two, you can absolutely jump into a forty four or jet ranger or anything bigger than. That, and you know what? Robinson did a similarly to what I'm understanding serious did and you can attest to this or not is if you fly in our twenty two, the transition to another forty four or in our sixty six is pretty darned seamless because the cockpit or setup alike where the different gauges the controls are set. It's very much alike and they did that on purpose so in you know the. Being that the are twenty two in the are forty four. So popular are forty four particularly in in tour businesses which probably where you're going to get one of your first starts, people like the fact that you have our twenty two are forty, four time that you learned on them. So that's another reason they're so popular because that's really what you're going to be flying when you start getting into the computer. Jobs have one lesson in an our twenty two which I took when I was in Florida and it wasn't the demo flight I said, give me the full first lesson had a great time by the way a really really enjoyed it One of the first things they did was put an endorsement in my logbook for the s far talk about them and does that apply to the forty four as well? and. Does so yes. So back in one, say it was maybe nine nineteen, ninety-three Robinson and the FAA got together and they came up with this s far. So Special Federal Aviation Regulation Number Seventy three, you'll find it in the front of part sixty one. Essentially, what it is because the Robinson helicopter and particularly the are twenty two are so popular, not only in training but actually personal use there are a lot of low time pilots flying these aircraft with. A lot of experience in they were going out there and just doing things that were very wise and they were hurting themselves in other people. So in it's it's really understanding like I was saying the aerodynamics of the aircraft energy management things like that, and these things that they're talking about in s four, seventy, three, they applied any two bladed rotor system helicopter, the Jet Ranger, the Huey, Cobra, whatever you want to mention about it. But so they came out with fortunately three interest a little bit extra training in understanding what it is you're doing with those controls and how to manage in stay in or needed flight essentially. Or seventy three ends super. Well, let's talk about the job market for helicopter pilots first off has that changed much in the past year what with The code pandemic change in the economy things like that. Yeah. As a matter of fact, the helicopter. The helicopter pilot shortage actually hit before the airplane pilot shortage. A lot of the pilots have been flying for different companies, municipalities, things like that. They're all Vietnam era pilots, excellent pilots. But at some point, they either have to or they want to retire and that's what we've been up against the last five to ten years people been retiring with that. Then the airlines in the pilot shortage, it will. There's a lot more airplane pilots out there than there are helicopter pilots but with that comes requirements insurance requirements in the minimum hour requirements, things like that. So a stream for finding pilots for the airlines were helicopter pilots they started with the military, and then they extended it to the civilian world and they call it the road or transition program. In, basically, if you're a helicopter pilot and you have a certain amount of hours usually. I want to say a thousand hours maybe seven hundred and fifty hours. They'll take you and they'll pay for your add-ons for your private your instrument, your die Gen all that kind of stuff and guarantee you a job as long as you you pass everything and they'll be a sign on bonus and things like that. So what happened is these helicopter pilots saw this and they said whole heck I'm GonNa, go fly for the airlines it's A. Stable job things like that. So lot of them jumped ship which made the pilot shortage in the helicopter industry even worse. So now if you look at different helicopter companies, you look on indeed any of these searches are multiple helicopter positions open even today the necessarily say the pandemic itself heard the helicopter industry, but with you know with the pandemic with the rotor transition program because. Of the pilot shortage in the airlines, that's what it's been robin from us. So there's a very healthy market for helicopter pilots out there. Wow, that's that's quite different than because obviously, a lot of airline pilots are being furloughed this week and it's hard to find those jobs and you're saying the the reverse flow could actually make sense at this point if your airline pilot. Hugh might consider becoming a helicopter pilot right and indoor go back to where you came from furet transition. Yeah Right. Wow that's fascinating. Well so posted I'm A low time helicopter pilot I aspire to work in the industry. How many hours do I need to get different kinds of jobs? What's going to be a typical progression as I move up in the industry share? Alike. The airplane industry. Once you get your your commercial on your instrument rating. A lot of the private students if you will and or civilian students will add on their flight instructors rating with your flight instructors rating. You're gonNA gain a just a lot of experience teaching people and also building those hours at the same time. If teaching is not something that you WanNa do if you have three, hundred, fifty, two, four, hundred hours and you've been flying Robinson's per se, you can actually get a job flying tours whether it be in Florida Myrtle Beach Alaska things like that flying in our forty four flying tours around. So really the first hear of helicopter jobs out there is going to be either your your flight instructor in door flying tours in our forty four. After that once you reach about a thousand hours or so flying any helicopter, you can get a job flying in the Gulf of Mexico Gulf of Mexico would be flying for the different oil companies through a third party service and you're flying oil rig workers out to the rigs with a thousand hours. They're going to transition you into a turban helicopter and you're GONNA be taken. guys out to the oil rigs. Also with a thousand hours, you can get a job flying tours in bigger aircraft say in the Grand Canyon. In Alaska or Hawaii. So that would be the the next here in you're going to need anywhere from like I said a thousand hours maybe even up to fifteen hundred hours depending on where you're going with that. Two thousand hours you're eligible to start flying ems jobs around law enforcement some law enforcement agencies and fire agencies will hire you as a helicopter pilot only others like border patrol they're gonna WanNa, put you through a law enforcement academy, which is typically six to eight months and make you an officer and then you can start flying their aircraft though I mentioned border patrol ordered patrol is hurting so bad for pilots. And helicopter pilots alike. But so yeah, there's definitely. Opportunity there, and then after that, you know I mentioned firefighting lot of fires in California right now, and it seems like that's the case every year. But Yeah if you WANNA come fly for say the California Division of Forestry Sepia for for La County fire things like that. You're GONNA need upwards of three to four thousand hours and they like high high altitude high density altitude flying. So that's where your tour say in the Grand Canyon's GonNa come into effect because typically your five thousand feet da and above up there. So. But yeah. So those are some of the jobs. You can also do private transport for people a power line inspection powerline of polling set and utility Poles. You can get out there with these saws hang down from the bottom of the helicopter in these mountainous terrain sit there and cut trees so they're non encroaching on the power lines Workers well. You see the typical AG planes out there spraying for bugs indoor seating helicopters do the same thing. It just depends on the topography, and if the airplane can get in, there are not if they can't, they're going to go to the helicopter. One other big thing that I learned about after moving to Texas is the feral hog problem in Texas is outrageous and you see the damage they're causing tall the crops out here and I think that goes. Without saying for a lot of this area even up into Oklahoma New Mexico, things like that. So heavily, hog hunting is a big thing out here. You can you can do that as well is that a service that you offer it is okay. So cunning and and game counting things like that are as long as they don't fire upward right I mean that would be a problem if they accidentally. Yeah. Hiring upwards actually even your shelves coming out the side. So I make people put a nets on the side. They're basically a shell catchers inspires your shelley. Jaques it'll actually be caught in a net and it won't go up into the road depending on now you're shooting. The reason I thought of that there have been multiple airplane incidents where people have shot themselves. Doubt I once saw a propeller hanging on the wall which had all kinds of buckshot how the backside of propellers. Exactly believe it or not. This stuff does happen. So yes, I mean, you are probably constantly thinking about risk management so that immediately came to mind when you when you mentioned that we'll talk about what what's the best part of flying helicopters what what he really love about it. What what just makes you want to be up there doing it all the time it is e ultimate off road vehicle. It really is I love I love aviation hands down. But unlike an airplane a helicopter flying along and you see something that you wanna go check out, you can do it. Some of the trips that we've taken when I say we, I'm talking about my wife, some of the trips we've taken even most recently up to Santa Fe and then up to telluride, which happens to be the second highest airport in the United States. So we flew helicopters there and we flew around and got to see some absolutely beautiful scenery. Know it's it's Kinda like the difference going from driving a car that then jumping on an airplane looking down and just seeing a whole different perspective. The helicopter gives you that next element mean you're just you're down there in an up close and personal and it's just it's a it's breathtaking. It's absolutely beautiful. Up. That we do in in in California and or even in Texas a big thing. So Texas barbecues a big thing here. There's so many barbecue places that we just we can fly into the helicopter they've actually built does helipads that we can fly into and go eat. So yeah that is helicopter gives you the freedom to do you're making me hungry now I need to go get a helicopter license so I can get barbecue. Or. Just come visit me. We'll go get excellent that sounds good Well. So talk about flying the L. A. Basin Area I mean you must have some stories about that I i. Fly in there and man it's just crazy. So what's it like flying in a helicopter? So in the base, it's very congested. As you already mentioned, you know with with lax air in Burbank and ban is a lot of controlled airspace helicopters typically fly lower than airplanes. So we can avoid some of the airspace because we're flying below the shelf of some of the say, the Class Bravo, even the class airspace, but you definitely get comfortable very quick you have to. Talk on the radio. The Nice thing about flying in the La area is unlike in Texas you know the ocean is south of May in the mountains are north of me. I can actually have some direction but you know California's just it's a beautiful area to fly whether you're along the mountains or along the ocean. One thing flying in the La area is when you're transitioning. Around La, and if you're trying to transition along the shoreline, lax is going to tell you. That, you can transitional on the shoreline under the departing traffic as long as you stay a hundred feet or less. Off The water and so you know you're transitioning towards Santa Monica and you're literally one hundred feet or less on the deck and you've got these airplanes taken off over you. I mean there's there's nothing like it. Wow. So you get to get a great view of everybody who's out there on the beach that's that's right and vice versa. And vice versa absolutely. And the other one of the things you actually have to watch out for is there are people down there with with well drones nowadays even. And, then those darn Segel's they want to get you to so. Well I guess you know where he'd be doing your auto rotation to right down to the to the sand. That's right. That's right now yourself away out. It just like incredible amount of fun. I'm starting to think maybe I should go ahead and finish up my helicopter certificate. Do people ever just come down to to to finish up certificates? Yeah yeah absolutely. Finish. Enough whether they're finishing up their initial or they just want to add on their rating, they'll come to me and we'll get that done for them. You know something that has has happened I have fallen into somewhat of a niche of where a customer will come to me and one of their own aircraft, and so they'll buy their aircraft and we'll start doing their flight training and flying with them, and then of course, they'll have a friend that wants to do the same thing. One of the lauwers to airplanes and helicopters is that you can get great distances in a short amount of time. So one of the things out here in Texas being the, we produce a lot of get natural gas and oil. Is at you know there are areas out in west Texas that are really in the middle of nowhere. It looks like you're on the surface of the moon, but there's a lot of business going on out there. So what I've been able to show some of my clients that in that industry is that I can pick you up at your house. In your helicopter you out there to multiple job sites, turn in different bids and still have you home for dinner which just maximize their profit and it's a piece of equipment now and you can write it off. So from a business standpoint, they love that making more money, they're more efficient. Their customers are happy in their wife happy to because their home. For Dinner, they're not going on the road for a week. So that's kind of. What's happened with my business I was just thinking in my wife loves that I'M A flight instructor and I'm home most every night as well too. So it sounds like again I are both well position having a lot of fun in our respective parts of the industry. Right agree. So where would people go to find out more about you about Lone Star helicopters? Well, we have a website at Lonestar Heli Dot Com. You can also find me on instagram and facebook. At lonestar Ellie that's great. We'll see. Thanks so much for joining us here today and talking about helicopters on my pleasure Max has been a lot of fun. Thank you. My, thanks to Steve Bush for sharing his knowledge about helicopters with us. One thing he didn't mention is that there's a brand new youtube video in which he gives a helicopter tour over downtown Austin Texas, and I've included a link to that video and our show notes I've also include linked to Steve's website, which is lone star, Heli Dot com, and just a quick note to let you know that we had a record twenty, one news stories this week that we had to cut for time as we. Just can't fit them all into the show. But if you support the show via Patriot the eight dollar month level or higher, you can find links to all of those recent stories that didn't quite make it into the show and you'll get access to the full script for this show, which is also available to people who support the show at the four dollar month or higher level design up to support the show just go to aviation news talk dot com slash awesome, and you'll be built by credit card. And finally please tell all of your friends about aviation news talk podcast and yes, some people still don't know what a podcast is. Just send those people out to the apple APP store or Google play store where they can download our dedicated APP for free. Just have them searching store for aviation news talk. So until next time fly safely have fun and keep the blue side up.

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183 New Garmin G3000 and G5000 Book, ICARUS Devices Smart Hood Interview + GA News

Aviation News Talk podcast

1:10:53 hr | 3 months ago

183 New Garmin G3000 and G5000 Book, ICARUS Devices Smart Hood Interview + GA News

"Hello yan aviation news. Talk where we talk general aviation with relevant news and flying tips for pilots and student pilots. Like you to help keep you safe. I'm ex truscott today. We'll be talking about the amazing garment g. Three thousand and g five thousand glass. Cockpits ended about my new book. That can help you. Master those systems plus later. We'll talk with inventor nixon -opoly about his new smart hood for instrument training. Call the device in episode one eighty two. We talked about everything you should know about pilot reports or pirates. So if you hear that episode you may want to check it out and before we get started with the news. I'd like to just ask for your help for one moment to help grow this show. Please take a moment now to look at whatever app. you're listening to us on and find the share button and then send this app to a friend who you think might benefit from the show and then follow up afterwards with him or her and suggests that they follow or subscribe to the show. Thanks so much for your help. This week in the news the faa has a new document outlining how to do self weather briefing at a popular aircraft from the nineteen thirties and forties is headed back into production. And finally. we'll tell you the amazing story of a pilot who was recently found thirty six days after he crashed. All listen more and the news starts now from lp dot org a new faa see and how to connect a self briefing. A strong preference has emerged among pilots to get preflight weather briefings on computers or devices instead of calling flight service doubt pilots help themselves the has released a new advisory circular and an online course as guides to the briefing process according to the circular. Ac ninety one dash ninety two the f. a. a. recognizes that the majority of pilots have become more accustomed to performing a self briefing than to calling. Fss and knowledge is that a self briefing may be compliant with current aviation regulations. What makes a briefing regulatory compliant. Well it must satisfy. Far ninety one dot one zero three which requires each pilot in command. Shell before beginning a flight become familiar with all available information concerning that flight. If there is one disadvantage do it. Yourself irs may face however it is the lack of structure for the briefing. Compared to a briefing received from an experienced flight service specialists the circular and the online course for which credit is available to participants in the faa's pilot proficiency wings program. The aim is to level the playing field. They were viewed three types of briefing pilot would request as the proposed departure time for flight nears and they break down each briefing type. Look standard abbreviated into its components. The information to look for in each of those components is also analyze with links to online sources also provided the online course conducting preflight self briefings for a student and via far pilots is hosted on the faa safety team website and use scenarios in real world examples to provide guidance on quote how to conduct a safe and regulatory compliant preflight self briefing using automated weather resources. The objective is to ensure that the pilot understands aviation whether basics in learns to apply meteorological 'aeronautics in a systematic manner to plant a safe flight section seven dot seven of the advisory circular discusses the benefits and limitations of weather in 'aeronautics information pilots success electronically in the cockpit noting that it can help pilots plan more safe and efficient flight paths and make better strategic decisions during flight to avoid potentially hazardous developing weather. It also describes the money services transmitted automatically to equipped aircraft by the f. i. s. or flight information service fists be component of. Spn while reminding pilots that information received through fifty may not include. All of the weather products are notams. That a preflight briefing includes in. The story was also covered on ipad pilot news dot com and they say pilots are creatures of habit and many continue to follow their instructors advice from decades ago. That an official weather briefing had to be obtained from flight service to be legal at a self weather. Briefing was not legal a c. ninety-one ninety-two sets record straight once and for all with updated guidance for pilots on the role of flight service. It says the faa considers self briefing may be compliant with current far's by self briefing pilots can often improve their knowledge of whether air nautical information flight service personnel are available. Show pilot need assistance. Not only are you not required to contact flight service prior to a flight but the recommends using flight service is a consultation resource on an as needed basis. Quote pilots are encouraged to utilize online automated whether resources to connect self briefings prior to contacting flight. Service pilots who have preflight weather risk assessment and risk mitigation skills are better prepared to make in-flight decisions as real time. Weather information is consumed. This allows flight service to become a consultation. Resource can be utilized when needed from flyer dot co dot uk. That's flyer magazine. The less eight back into production as an elyssa will be light sport aircraft and just a quick note. If you're unfamiliar with alaskan. They built nearly six thousand aircraft. Nineteen thirty three and nineteen fifty. The legendary luscomb eight f is to go back into production initially as a light sport aircraft but with the ambition of buildings certified aircraft constructed to usa car for a standard airworthiness requirements. A new aircraft corporation has been created by steve striking and stephen young record the less come assets in june of twenty nineteen. They say their goal is to revive the legacy of the come. Lic is operating from a twenty five thousand square foot facility at jamestown airport in chautauqua new york. The two owners said we are now. Starting the las compa model production we had several discussions on pricing and are keeping the cost as low possible. Steve tess engineered and designed a new retro dash. We've digitized several thousand drawings and started making parts for the new l. s. a. l. says it has committed significant resources to sorting inspecting and cataloging or parts matori what we have worked extensively to develop digital archival las large collection of historical records engineering drawings and production work orders. We have inspected in our refurbishing production jigs and tooling to resume production of those hard to find parts. Les's working closely with numerous well known suppliers and manufacturers to establish faa approved supply. Chain says we are now working with trig avionics design factory new and aftermarket modification kits that will allow owners to upgrade their cockpits with modern equipment including a dsp transponders. Lt's while maintaining the look and feel the classic model laid cockpit. Additionally we're developing close working relationships with local metalworking specially shops to leverage the rich western new york and north pennsylvania manufacturing base. Lic is offering maintenance assistance by the use of the factory tooling to model eight owners who desire to restore their airplanes using the original model production tooling. And there's a graphic that says that the simplest version they're offering legal to fly via far with no radios and has a base price of one hundred and ten thousand five hundred and fifty dollars. Top speed is one hundred forty miles per hour. It has to twelve and a half gallon fuel tanks for about four hours of flying with a forty five minute reserve from cnbc dot com united airlines to open flight school leader. This year in hiring push plans to increase diversity. Now you may recall that. An episode one eighty-one. Jason blair told us that the major us airlines would presume this year and now. Here's a story that suggests that that's moving ahead. United airlines started accepting applications for its flight academy as part of a push to hire ten thousand pilots. By twenty thirty. As more of its aviators reached the federally mandated retirement age of sixty five. Their land announced in february twenty twenty bought a flight school but the kobe pandemic forced to put training plans on. Hold last we could set. It will start pilots again. Starting with three hundred candidates whose hiring process was halted by the pandemic. It's school has meant to provide training to pilots with little to no experience. United says it wants to train five thousand pilots names for half of them to be women and people of color just over seven percent of the united's more than twelve thousand pilots are women and thirteen percent of people of color. United said the first class of twenty pilots will begin in the third quarter. The graduation date sometime in the first half of twenty twenty two united other airlines have ramped up pilot. Recruitment in recent years students will be able to fly for united's av eight recruiting program which extends conditional job offers to candidates as they build up experienced during training and working at smaller. Carriers could take a student about five years from starting flight school until reaching a job at united united declined to say how much the flight academy would cost students but said it would fund one point. Two million dollars in scholarships to break down the financial barriers that limit access to the airline pilot career path for generations of women and people of color j. p. morgan chase. It will provide another one point. Two five million in scholarships to help increase diversity and from flyer dot co dot. Uk flyer magazine in the uk. A fifty thousand pound prize for human powered cross-channel race top cash prize of fifty thousand pounds is being the winning team with the great human powered aircraft race due to take place in june of two thousand twenty two further ten thousand pound prize. We'll go to the second fastest team in five thousand pounds to the fastest female pilot the first and only crossing the channel in a human powered aircraft or an hp. A was forty. Two years ago by brian allen the aircraft gossamer albatross designed by. Paul mccreevy knows successful. Attempts have been made sense. The race will mark the sixtieth anniversary of the first flight of human powered aircraft by derek peugeot in the south hampton university student aircraft. Some packed crossing the english channel on a human powered aircraft has been done once before barely said eric. Proud foot and hba designer. It was one of the most amazing athletic achievements of our time to think that several international teams are going to attempt the same feat on the same day in a race to see who was the fastest seems. Almost a bit bonkers. It will be a huge technological and logistical challenge. But most of all supreme test of athletic and piloting skill. it's going to be fascinating to watch. In thrilling participate in entrance will have to fly thirty five kilometers from folkestone to france. All aircraft will take off on the same day to ensure no team has an unfair advantage due to weather though off will be staggered to ensure that there are no mid air. Collisions teams will be followed by speedboats with rescue divers standing. By in case aircraft ditches on account of the risk and difficulty teams will have to demonstrate past experience in hp a building to qualify said. The organizers teams from all countries are to apply it just for the record. I won't be applying to be part of this race but it does sound like fun from flight. Goebel dot com in three eighty calls conflicts after wrong turn during go-round pilots of a singapore airlines airbus. A three eighty incorrectly acted on a turn instruction during go round at sydney airport being australia. Of course turning left instead of right in creating conflicts involving other traffic investigators have determined the aircraft headed boarded. An eyeless approach to runway one. Six right at about a thousand feet owing to win here as it arrived from singapore last year. Atc acknowledged the go round instructed. The aircraft at turn right onto a heading of two seven zero and maintain three thousand feet but the crew had been expecting a left turn in order to avoid weather and traffic to the west of sydney and believe they heard an instruction to turn left the first officer. Who is the monitoring pilot gave an incomplete reebok said the australian transport safety bureau adding that the controller. Miss this opportunity to correct the Order by turning left the eighth eighty cross the approach path of the parallel runway. One six left the controller. Query the aircraft's course and told the crew to turn onto a heading of zero six zero degrees. The eighth three eighty s maneuvers resulted in. Its coming into conflict with a bump. Rda dash eight on approach to one six left the crew. Which was instructed to make a right turn to maintain separation from the jet. This intern resulted in loss. Separation between the dash. Eight and a boeing. Seven thirty seven. Which would have been approaching one six right. The minimum distance reducing to two point six nautical miles horizontally thirteen hundred feet vertically investigator. Stink that the three eighty crew was experiencing a significantly higher level of workload owing to the weather conditions. And the go around a wind. The missed approach procedure required the crew to reconfigure the a three eighty in less than a minute and the pilots did not expect to receive an atc instruction one which was country expectation until the procedure was completed. These elements probably contributed to the misheard instruction. The inquiry says it has an incomplete back in the absence of correction will be perceived by most crews as implicit confirmation. And i'd like to just add that. This kind of expectation bias is also an issue for g pilots because sometimes we hear what we expect to hear in that. What was actually said now. We rarely talk about paul's on the show. Because there are probably a hundred companies working on these aircraft and none have made it to market yet but this week we have to significant stories about ev tall. So we'll talk about them from cnbc. Dot com ups agrees to buy electrical vertical aircraft. Speed up package delivery in small markets. Ups's package delivered to new heights literally with a purchase of ten electric evi. Tall aircraft from technologies atlanta-based ups and it will test the ev tolls for use in. Its express air delivery network focusing on small and medium markets company will operate the vitale's under its flight forward division which is also exploring drone delivery the type of aircraft which looks like a cross between a plane and a helicopter unlocks new business models. That don't exist today. Bala ganesh mvp of the ups advanced technology group said for example. You can see a future where it's carrying. Let's say one thousand pounds. Fifteen hundred pounds to rural hospitals and land on a helipad instead of an airport for mont based beta technologies will design and build the vitale's set to be delivered to ups in two thousand twenty four pending certification from the faa beta wall so provide landing pads in rechargeable batteries. Ups holds an option to purchase up. To one hundred and fifty more vitale's the price of the transaction was not disclosed the tolls can fly up to two hundred fifty miles at one hundred and seventy miles per hour on a single charge ups at it initially plans to use them in smaller markets and create a series of short routes or one long route to meet customer needs. The vitale's will have an operational advantage over small airplanes according to connect because they're designed to accommodate shipping containers which allowed for faster in of in many cases beta technologies. Founder cau- clarkson team has worked with. Ups to help transform. The company handles moving packages and from the verge. Dot com wisc arrow accuses rival flying taxi firm archer of brazen theft in a new lawsuit. Wisc era which is a joint venture between boeing and kittyhawk is suing rival air taxi from archer for allegedly stealing trade secrets. And infringing. On its patents. Whiskas seeking unspecified monetary damages and an injunction against archer to prevent it from using the allegedly stolen technology in response archer says it has no reason to believe that possesses any of whisk intellectual property in a complaint filed in the us district court of northern california. Wisc said it is suing archer to quote stop a brazen theft of its intellectual property and confidential information and protect the substantial investment of resources in years of hard work and effort of its employees and their vision of the future in urban air transportation most surprising to whisk was the design of archers prototype aircraft mainly because it closely resembled whisks own prototype both aircraft features six front rotors each with five blades that can tell either horizontally or vertically as well. Six rear rotors at each consist of two blades remained fixed in a vertical position. Archers aircraft also includes an unconventional v tail shape similar to whisk patented design. Archer recently made news by raising one point one billion by going public through a reverse merger with a special acquisition company or spec. The merger was valued at three point. Eight million dollars. United airlines has place a one billion dollar order for two hundred archer electrical vertical takeoff and landing or vitale aircraft with an option to purchase. One hundred more for five hundred million dollars. The spokesman for archer called the lawsuit regrettable and denied the allegations that the company had stolen whisk intellectual property analysts predict the flying taxi market could grow two hundred fifty billion dollars in revenue by twenty thirty five and just decide i do indeed hope that the analysts are right and that becomes a hundred and fifty billion dollar market. That would create a lot of jobs though. I'm a little skeptical. That the market will be that big after all. It was only about fifteen years ago than analysts. Were predicting that veal. Jays are very light jets. Were going to be so popular. They would darken the skies with dentists. And obviously that never happened and finally. Here's something that did happen comes from the new york times dot com says. His plane crashed in the amazon. Then came the hard part. The pilot was three thousand feet over the amazon flying. Small propeller plane on his maiden assignment for wildcat miners deep in the forest. When the engine cut out you had about five minutes he calculated bring down the plane. And it's highly flammable. Cargo hundred and sixty gallons of diesel fuel. He reported his imminent crash over a portable radio noting. He was about half way to his destination. A mine known as california then as plain barreled down antonio cena in for a small valley lined with palm trees there he recalls thinking palm trees. Being there is water. Perhaps a river says becoming a pilot. Nine years earlier mr cena had heard countless stories about fatal crashes but while his plane scraped a few trees in the smash into the ground he realized something exhilarating as he rolled to a halt he had survived. He grabbed a pocket knife a flashlight. A couple of lighters and a phone with a little juice in the battery and scrambled away from the aircraft was later at burst into flames. Then he settled down to wait for his rescue. It was a long wait at first. Mr santer were counted in a phone interview last week. He camped next to the remains of the forty eight year. Old cessna to ten l. figuring it was his best chance of being spotted and search pilots did in fact circle the area for several days and then kept going. They flew right over me but couldn't see me. Mr saying the said he waved and scream each time he heard the thought of propellers but to no avail giving up his hopes of being rescued. Mr cena embarked on what turned out to be a seventeen mile trek through the rainforest home. Jaguars venomous insects and anaconda 's thirty six days later on march six this year he emerged to tell a story that has transfixed brazilians a rare piece of uplifting news for nation. Badly in need of it after your of being battered by the cova crisis is account though. Also put a spotlight. On brazil's illegal mining industry which has flourished in recent decades and indigenous territories and other parts of the amazon that are supposed to be sanctuaries. The illegal mind where he was headed was in the micro reserve. No human activities are allowed beyond those bent to protect the forest. Mr santa's ordeal began on january. Twenty eighth a small airstrip in para state. His task he said was to ferry diesel fuel for minors in a remote region where they had built a makeshift landing strip. It was working took only reluctantly. He said flying gigs had become scarce during the pandemic and a small bar. He ran was providing little income after his plane crashed. When it became clear help was not going to come from the sky. Mr santa thirty six years old started walking. He knew that predators usually hunt near the water where prayers abundant so. He slept on hills but he was frequently besieged by packs of spider monkeys which trying to destroy his precarious shelters. The monkeys hauer regard sent after watching them. Eat a small bright pink fruit called brew. That's brb you. Mr cena assumed it was safe for human consumption and it became his main source of sustenance. One afternoon about four weeks after the crash when he had gone through three days without eating a buzzing noise stopped him in his tracks who chainsaw. Mr santa had stumbled onto the camp site of brazil nut collectors reflecting on his ordeal. Mr cena said he walked away with a newfound appreciation for the rainforest which is being raised. Every everyday by the illegal miners he briefly worked for if i had fallen somewhere in a deserted plantation site. I wouldn't have water shelter or anything to eat. He said the amazon is so rich. Well that's the news for this week coming up next. We'll talk about the garmin g three thousand and my other weekly updates at later with knicks napoli about the interest of ice smart hood. All right here on the aviation newstalk podcast. Now let's talk about the g. Three thousand and g five thousand class cockpits from garment. Many of you may be familiar with garmin g one thousand and serious aircrafts version of it called the perspective and later the perspective plus now the one thousand first came out and way back in two thousand four and two years later i wrote my max truscott's g one thousand and perspective class cockpit handbook which is now in its fifth edition. That book has done extremely well. And if you fly either the g. one thousand or the perspective and you'd like to know everything there is to know about these systems and you'd like to read about it from a book that's been written by a pilot. Four pilots that. I'm strongly encourage you to get a copy of my book the g. one thousand of course has used many piston aircraft and a few light turboprops enlight jets now the g. Three thousand and g five thousand art similar to the g. One thousand that they are glass cockpits however they are even more capable than the g one thousand and kept this. They are actually a little easier to use the g. one thousand if you haven't heard of the g. three thousand and five thousand. It might be because you're not yet flying a turbo proper light jet as you won't find these systems in any piston aircraft but if you've ever used the garment. Gt and six fifty or seven fifty navigator already have some familiarity with the system's as those navigators share some of the same software for big brothers the g. three thousand g five thousand glass cockpits the biggest difference between the g. Three thousand and chief five thousand is that the former is designed for smaller lighter part twenty three aircraft in the latter's designed to meet the more stringent part twenty five regulations which apply to the design of larger aircraft including the transport aircraft used by the airlines unfortunately for pilots the user interface for the g. Three thousand five thousand is virtually identical since the system share much of the same software code base in one of the most amazing things to me about the g. Three thousand five thousand is how many different kinds of aircraft. They are used in for example. You'll find one version of the g. Three thousand in the single engine cirrus vision chat that i fly but you also find a version of it in the f five fighter jet. And if you're thinking the five has been around for a long time how do they get the g. three thousand while you're asking the right question and the answer is that a company called tactical air support or tac air as a fleet of about twenty fives and they've recently upgraded them with a garmin g. Three thousand tac air is a defense contractor and they use the f five supply. An adversarial support roles. You'll also find the g. Three thousand turboprops such as the t. b. m. nine forty which is the fastest single engine turboprop on the market and recently jobe aviation announced that they will use the g. three thousand for the rest of canary all electric vertical takeoff and landing or vitale aircraft. Which is expected to begin commercial operations in twenty twenty four the g. five thousand which looks virtually identical to the g. Three thousand can we found in business. Jets such as the cessna citation longitude. Which is the top of cessna's product line swell passengers of flight level. Four five zero at four hundred eighty three nights. It's also used in the cessna citation latitude and cessna citation sovereign plus and even some older jets. Now sport the garmin g. Five thousand is there are retrofit programs owners. Put the g. Five thousand older cessna citation excel and citation xl s jets and into the beach. Shit four hundred a and the hawker four hundred x p and it's also found in some out of production aircraft including the seventy and seventy five and the citation ten plus. If you're wondering how one glass cockpit could be used in so many different types of aircraft. One answer is that the g. three thousand five thousand or offered in at least three. Major configurations most implementations use a version with three large displays across the top of the instrument panel which includes two. Pf ds or primary flight displays for each pilot and then a larger single display with m. f. d. type information such as maps in the center between the two. Pfp's in addition most of these aircraft have to smaller touchscreen controllers located below the displays. And these are used for almost all user inputs to the system. This common three display configuration is used in the cessna. Citation m two. Cj three plus the embraer. Phenom one hundred ev. In three hundred e the honda. Ha for twenty hundred jet. Blue jet seventy seventy five and seventy five liberty the piper m six hundred and the dr nine thirty and nine forty some g five thousand equipped aircraft also have a three display version. That has not two but four touchscreen controllers aircraft with this configuration include the cessna citation latitude sovereign plus longitude and ten plus a to display version of the g. Three thousand with a pfc fd and three smaller touchscreen controllers is used in the series sf fifty vision jet. I'm guessing that serious opted for to display version to reduce the total size of the avionics which gives pilots better view. Is they look outside. And this is undoubtedly one of the meetings of vision. In the aircraft's name also. I'm guessing they expected. Most of these aircraft be owner flown with a single pilot. So there's less of a need for a second. Pf efd's sitting in front of the right seat. There is also a single display version of the g. Three thousand the combines of cfd and moving map onto a single display. It's teamed up with two touch during controllers and it's targeted for tactical aircraft with tandem seating announce customers for the single display version include attackers twenty five fighters the diamond five fifty which is a tandem. Two seat civilian and military turboprop trainer and the textron's scorpion jet by the way in the f. Five which has tandem seating each pilot has one display and touchscreen controllers in all of these many configurations user inputs for the m. f. d. type functions such as maps charts and so on are performed on the smaller touchscreen controllers by contrast pf functions are performed through soft keys which are located along the bottom of the pfc displays except in the series vision jet where those functions are also performed with a touchscreen controllers in the tm. Nine thirty and nine forty pm t functions can be performed with either the soft keys or the touchscreen controllers the g. three thousand and five thousand use touchscreen for almost all user inputs unlike the g. one thousand which uses physical knobs for user inputs the touchscreen controllers used in most g. Three thousand g. Five thousand implementations are oriented vertically and included joystick by contrast touchscreen controllers used the sears vision. Jet and the tb nine thirty and nine forty. Don't have a joystick. So the methods of zooming and panning maps and charts vary among aircraft depending upon. Whether or not they have a joystick therefore pilots who fly more than one g three thousand or g five thousand aircraft will sometimes need to interact with the user interface in different ways to access the same function also. Some functions are not available in all aircraft. Now one of my challenges in writing this book was kind of for the different configurations and different aircraft as you can imagine. Readers would like to be able to go directly to relevant information for their craft and not have to wait through information that's only relevant to other aircraft or not flying so to make it a little easier for readers to identify the text descriptions appropriate to their aircraft. I created several different icons for each of the major configuration types. Thus as you're reading the book you can easily identify information. That's relevant to for example aircraft with three displays in to touching controllers versus say the vision jet tbn configurations that use horizontal controllers. I also took great pains to include images for virtually every software screen you might encounter when using the three thousand or five thousand so there are nearly four hundred images in the book and to get these. In some cases i use the software simulator. And in many cases i took photos will flying in different aircraft with clients of mine. And if you buy the book you'll find that all of these images are in color now in my g. One thousand book only pages are in color so many of the images in the book are black and white and that did reduce the production cost of that book but a few readers were unhappy that not all. The pages were in color so this latest book undecided to print everything in color in charge. A little more for the book by the way. I would like to thank stephen ilah. Who's one of our patriots mega supporters for taking a photo in his citation. Cj three plus which became the cover photo of the book. And he's in that photo and over the years a lot of people assume that i'm on the cover photo of my g one thousand book but that actually is then vividly sitting in his cessna. Two oh six which. We flew back together when he picked it up new from the factory. By the way. I i learned the garmin g three thousand while doing my type rating in the sears vision. Yet at the vision center in knoxville tennessee. Almost three years ago. And i had the same experience learning that system the decline. Client of mine. Who i was talking about this recently. Had when he first started using the three thousand both of us had used the g one thousand for many years. And most of the functions. You'll find in the g. Three thousand g. five thousand are the same functions. I've been using the g one thousand and perspective for over fifteen years but the user interfaces and these systems are very different from each other so initially while an absolute wiz when using the g one thousand. I struggled a lot with learning the g. Three thousand probably because my brain was so wired using the g one thousand initially. I was not happy with my struggles to learn the g. Three thousand. But i have come to absolutely love the g. Three thousand and five thousand in the reason. I love them so much. Now that i know how to use the system. Well it really takes me less time to perform a function on the g. Three thousand than it does in the g. One thousand even though i've got literally thousands of hours of experience behind the g. one thousand and i make fewer mistakes on the three thousand and five thousand which also saves time the biggest difference. I really want to thank the many developers at garment for this. Is it with the g. One thousand and with garment four thirty and five thirty almost all user inputs are made with a pair of concentric knobs in the challenge with these dobbs's that they perform to different functions depending upon whether or not a cursor is present on the display. If the cursor isn't present the knobs are houston navigate the many pages of information in the nfl but if the cursor is present those same knobs are instead used to manipulate data on the screen selected and so on the one thousand people make mistakes. Because they haven't. I looked to see whether the cursor is on or off by contrast most of the switching between empty pages and the manipulation of data is done by touching buttons that appear on the touchscreen controllers in the g. Three thousand angie five thousand and that just takes less time than twisting knobs and you no longer need to. I look to see whether a cursor is president or not as you did with g. one thousand of course no system is perfect and there is one funky thing you need to do. And interacting with a g. Three thousand n. g. five thousand and that is regardless of whether you have two displays or three displays in your aircraft. Those displays can be split vertically so that you have essentially two different unrelated pains of information on a single display so for example you might split the leftist play which has pf d. information displaying your primary flight instruments. so that in addition to showing the flight instruments it also displays an instrument. Charter maybe a checklist or even a map. So as you're flying along you might have four separate panes of information control by the touchscreen controllers but in most g three thousand and some g. five thousand implementations you only have to touch touchscreen controllers and they can only control one pain at a time so before we start manipulating the data on a pain in the g. three thousand the five thousand you. I have verify which pain touchscreen controller is currently controlling it. If it's not the pain you want to change in either. I use the touchscreen controller to select the pain you desire before we start making inputs. Otherwise you'll end up changing different pain from the one you'd intended to but this minor amount of forethought you need to do before. Changing pain is much much easier than identifying a small cursor on the one thousand and deciding whether to turn it off and just like the g one thousand in the g. three thousand five thousand. There is often more than one way to accomplish particular function so both systems. I spent a lotta time comparing different ways to do things that have tried to figure out the fastest way to perform a function. So even if you already have g. three thousand experience you'll learn some of those shortcuts from the book also like my g one thousand book. I've consulted with some of the top. Cfi's around the country to learn their favourite tips. And you'll find those liberally sprinkled throughout all of the books including this latest one and even if you're not yet flying a plane with g. three thousand or five thousand you may be interested in reading the book and learning about this new system by the way many of the features of the g three thousand and five thousand are also in the garment. Gt and six fifty seven fifty so if you fly with those systems. Large portions of the booker also relevant to you. The book sales for forty four ninety five. And you can order it online from directly by going to max truscott dot com. And of course. I'll put a link to it in the show notes or you can order it from me by phoning eight hundred two four seven six five five three. You'll also find the book in stock in some other places where you may go to buy aviation supplies by the way. It took me about two years to write and produce the book and as hard as it is to write a book. It's even harder to get the word out about a book to people who might be interested in it. So let me ask you this small favor. If you have a friend who flies achieve three thousand or defy thousand equipped turbo proper jet. Please tell your friend about the book or better yet. Police buy them a copy of the book and give it to them as a gift. Thanks very much with your help with this project. Coming up next our conversation with nixon. -opoly about the acreage device. Right here on the aviation news. Talk podcast l. Let me tell you a little bit about nixon. -opoly he has a bs in aerospace engineering from purdue university. He's currently an air assault pilot flying helicopters for the army national guard. He founded it. Chris devices in two thousand fourteen when he had an idea for a radical. New design for hoods used an instrument training. He calls this smart view limiting device the interest of ice thou. Here's our conversation with knicks. Napoli well nick walk into the show. Great to have you here. Thanks for having me matt. We'll tell us about the moment when you realize that. Maybe someone should design a better hood. What was that catalyst that moment of inspiration. Well it was born out of frustration. I was walking away from the the helicopter. Been on a training mission. And i was under the hood at just taken off. Is that pence cool and the instructor swipes the cyclists. Right out my hand. We went very hard. Left him in the observer in the back started debating whether or not we almost had a point and and i was sitting there a bit startled in the right seat turns out we also the buzzard over Peter prude's airport there in pensacola one. We came back around. We perfectly landed and it was a near miss. I almost took the buzzard into into my lap came inside the rotor. My side. that's joint. Fourteen th the boeing. Seven hundred eighty seven. Dreamliner was coming out. Seventy seven does not have a window shades in the in the cabin. It has electric rheumatic windows. That you just hit a dial changes opacity and i thought to myself bullying your nearest can figure out how to put that. In a passenger liner one hundred times and make it cost effective in in defy resistance in active. Why am i still find a helicopter with these paper. Got my pilot's license. We used fogle -als and they were. They were paying a so. Initially i just want be able to see outside. And i got. I got a piece of the pd l. c. film in and out in messed around with electric actions and realize that it kind of looked like going in and out of clouds and that you know the light bulb went off and here. I am a few years later with more finished product. That's awesome tell us about some of the limitations of traditional hood view limiting device like fossils. The first one is that it's binary it's either on or off there's no inbetween you're gonna know that it's coming. It's it's cumbersome in the cockpit in that if you don't instrument training you gotta transition at decision height or the mda so you got put take it on. Take it off so that was another pain. Point that i found with our paper fogle. I used when i was learned flying helicopter. The other one is the the visual fidelity is not there. It does not look like clouds. And one thing that i've found in my research in working on this project for for awhile is in his crucial to make sure that you're not getting Hughes one you're flying the the aircraft you're not gonna get those in a cloud and it's a. It's a massive training scar especially in civilian helicopter industry but also in aircraft out on the east coast with a quite swollen her. He's telling me about you. Know training people and multi engine aircraft. He's like well you know to do. Commercial maneuvers these calls. Sometimes we get we get layers. We got punched her on top to maneuvers. He's like you wouldn't imagine how many pilots that are currently rated insurrection pilots and they get into the clouds and they don't have much instrument. They've vincent rayburn auto axel instrument time and they get along key in ended. Start losing control Take the controls in. It's it's not anything about necessarily the pilot. It's that they have this. Massive training. scar of of these these hoods and fog that we've been using since nineteen twenty nine. Yes i still remember my experience with fog -als and that was thirty years ago and i was wearing glasses at the time. Now i have contact lenses except for my readers that i have on here at the moment and i remember those things would fog up on especially on a humid days at just today. I was flying with a gentleman with fog -als and he said oh my fossils are fogging up and you know the other thing about traditional view limiting devices. I don't think i have ever seen one where i wasn't getting some view of the ground. Peripherally no matter how good they are. It just seems like you still see some of the ground going by yup. And i've taken great pains to cut the film of the kirsch device to specific cockpits are generally The great thing about white single engine training aircraft is there there approximately about about the same sitting in there looking out and there's some adjustment built into the device but in the helicopter industry you sit a robinson r forty four the panels very small and you sit in abell for twenty nine or any c. One forty five or something like that in the panels very big and and between the little bit different but it's crucial to make sure that you're not getting those cues because you're not gonna get those clouds and and we've already seen with with our beta testers. The pilots that have already trained with a device that there is a there is a noticeable difference in the quality of training and the quality of pilot that reduces totally agree. I think that. I remember my instrument training and with a fogle z. I could do it. And then i would be totally freaked out when we were in actual to me wearing fogle is a totally different experience. One of the things. I usually tell people is that it's not that hard to keep an aircraft say straight and level just on the instruments. What's what's really dangerous is the transitions. You're transitioning you're accelerating or decelerating. You're climbing you're descending you're turning so one of the things about traditional fogle is is that you're you have to put them on so you're not using me controlling the aircraft in the maybe the instructor takes controls and you're gonna be trimmed out and you should never want. You never wanna give somebody an interim aircraft so vigorous designed to be worn from start to finish and much more natural transitions. You're actually gonna get in the cloud so you get to decision heights than hey suddenly you can start to see the runway or you're you're popping out clouds going through layers and stuff like that. So it's all about that scenario based training and bringing that to to the so go ahead and describe for us the device and for those who are watching the video. Go ahead and show it to us awesome. So there's there's components to the device. The first is the he'll see biser so i'll demo the fixed-wing device now based on beta testing wanted. Something that was that was a simple light and portable possible. So we've come up with a non ridge designed works with any will baseball so it clips to be under baseball catholic so amend it fits around to give it. The shape of the cockpit connects to the second component which is the controller the battery pack which has eight hours of full clear. And then you can transition. The third component is the luther nailed app but works on any iphone or android or your your ipad and allows you to switch between disability levels. Set transition times. It'll even track your your far time. Which is you know there will be no more wondering about armony hours. You actually so as i'm looking at you initially. It looks like i can see pretty much straight through the glass. So when it's powered to be clear how clear is it. I mean there. Are you able to see five ten miles with it. Oh absolutely absolutely there is a little bit of you. Can you can see the edges of it. But after y you're gonna forget that it's on which is which is the goal really essentially. We're talking about number nine c. Training and allows the instructor to set different visibility. One of the big things is simulate marginal visibility which plays into the goal that we're giving that instructor a tool to teach whether decision making which is a huge huge problem. Because you know how many times when you're getting your private pilots license. Are you the one making the weather call or in air. Weather calls are use in their urine. You're doing is far training and you can sit at the table. Your instructor can can quiz you about what. What weather do i need to do. This crouch or or what's what minimums and and and so on so forth. But but there's been two facets that there's there's you know retake off whether decision making in flight weather decision making which to be honest the more portable on his insight and what are the different visibility levels that you can set are they preset or can customize them and how many levels can you choose to have to switch back and forth between the we have four levels and they are. Three of them are adjustable. The so the first level is a. b. and c. safety. The transition time is instant that will make the device know perfectly. The three levels are set at a mile half mile and then less than half a mile. And what we tell people that corresponds to one hundred seventy five and fifty percent opacity potential. So do i understand that you could actually go for a zero visibility setting where you really can't see it all except the instruments so at the zero level. You're you're you're not really going to be able to see outside. Got it and then for transitions. I see that you could set it so that very gradually starts to clear. And how long could you set that for you. Mentioned thirty seconds as an example zero to thirty seconds and that's that's not also transition between levels so depending on how you set the levels you could. You could stretch that out. We also have a demo mode that will go just automatically in and out in and out to teach things we talk about looking at accident reports especially that trained pilots to commit to instruments in instead of trying to hold onto vnc too long. Because that's where we see a lot of tation assif it and and loss of control accidents. Yeah so but. I think of a traditional hood. I think it'd being used strictly for instrument training. It sounds to me like you're saying there are a whole lot of other ways. That could be used as well both with private pilots who aren't instrument rated and with anyone. Just to kind of simulate going into the clouds accidentally. Is that right exactly. So everybody knows on your pilot forty hours three hours of simulated iof our time now for me when i was eating my pilot's license we're going from san marcus back to austin no end. We just got done practicing landings like you're going to spend the majority of your time learning how to fly and you know he's always throw the eagles on long point free and you'll be that much closer to to hitting all your boxes to use private pilots license now. The intent of those three hours was not to make instrument. Rated pilots are not to anybody. You know a taste to get him to to get ready to give him a fighting. Chance found themselves in nine in doing pilots a disservice when we just said you're on fogleman. It's another checking the box because it's what always consistently one of the top killers dental Orientation in pilots that are not as far as aircraft or not. I for rated themselves getting into see. So the goal especially generalization is to treat better instrument pilots but also clean better Pilots that instead of that you know. Hey throw these on an analog. Are you know thirty minutes. While you're you're straight and level they let's go outten and you turned around and point or something like that and practice maneuvers and after the gotten comfortable wearing advice you know start to start to both visibility. Insert saving it down and to start saying. Hey you know. I'd probably start looking for an airport to land at or united. Be changing my of flight and i'd be looking to divert or going through the motions and maybe giving them the invernizzi's scenario letting them practice. Hey you punch in the first thing you do is get under control focused on that one hundred percent need turn with no obstacles climb. You're going to have to you know central Do emergency you're going to have to call up approach or some other agency. You have to get some help to ticket undercut on the ground and start running through those scenarios so that if that time comes. That pilot doesn't just have hair. I saw hundred seventy seconds of. I saw that video and now i'm very scared. Dummy a die so that they trained full back on. I can see how this would be even more practical than running them through an inadvertent. Imc checklist that essentially says put on the autopilot and make a one eighty here. They actually get to see it. And if it's kind of given to them as a bit of a surprise then you can see. Hey do they not go to the checklist or are they just kind of late to make the decision. Are they struggling with what to do. Yeah and it's it's definitely something that swat. I spent a lot of times people. I want it to be like an an engine failure. You when you're line to fly either helicopter airplane they're you're sitting and the insertion Back in what do you do. Well you got gotta you know. Hit max glide you got an auto helicopter you gotta find that sealed that you're gonna put it down. If you ever got to. Hopefully muscle memory would would take over and shelf in a good position. So i think the key to reducing the accident rate for whether late accidents in this country is is is better trained. Simple and better pilots. Not necessarily just you know whiz bang featured on the aircraft or on that. Tell me how long have you been working on this. In perfecting the device had the original idea in twenty fourteen in september. I built the first real working Flyable prototypes in early. Two thousand fifteen january twenty fifteen and actually took it up to Perdue and flew registered cessna and made little video backup aero innovate program at yale oshkosh. I went up there in that summer. In two thousand fifteen and kind of went all in my car to get the patent and her friend struggling ever since two to make a reality. We've been through quite a few different Models done a lot of beta testing. Very thankful that purdue. Ohio state a lot of helicopter flight schools at the right people very experienced pilots. You help me out in a way to get to where we are right now. So this is the this is wall fixing device that will show you the the devices is can do either to our mvp mounts helmets or onto it and it's it's got carbon-fiber and there were real estate so it's been it's been a journey to from idea and it's been an engineering problem that i never saw myself yoga but tackling i was so into school clinched to design airplanes. And that type of stuff. But you know life has a funny way of taking me on a different director. Wants an engineer. Always an engineer. I know that you have been working with a lot of flight. Schools and individuals and driving around giving demos and things like that. Tell me about the feedback that you've gotten from people who've used it so i love to sit here and tell you that everything was all the was great but nothing good comes without So get a lot of feedback on some of the stuff is if a pilot has had hood time there. The device was much simpler to fly with when you're when you're actually out flying there's no change control. There's no take the boggles off. There's no it doesn't hint you around your ears. Like fog goals it. Doesn't you don't look like a dog. That just came back from the vet. Was the big great hood or anything like that but it does take a little bit more set up. There's a there's a cord. There's a very small battery pack. Initially some pilots are like. Hey i don't know about this. But they get a few hours. And then i never wanna go back at learned a lot of feedback in and one thing about building devices. I'm not the person to test it. Because i don't know how to use it so i have to. I have to hold my tongue. Sometimes i just want handed over it and tell me what you think. I remember one of the first take the hit attesting comments i got back. I made some new controllers nine. Been using something that was off. The shelf had like a little belt clip on the over. This your specially three d. printed in trollers the handed over you know. Check this out and Which the clip. I was like. What what do you mean was the. He's the other one clip. He's like. I need the clip. And what i found out was he had been clipping sue. The seat Up away. And i never thought about that and now guess what every acreage device it comes with a clip attachment. So you can put either your flight suit or your or your seatbelt. And who do you think is the biggest target market for this as an individual pilots. Cfi's flight schools. Who do you think. It's best suited for so i just sold a device out to a private pilot. Instrument rated guy who flew flew a couple hundred dollars a year and a one seventy two and he just wants to be the best instrument Possible especially if you're going to be taking your your family on trips and stuff like that yet. You want to be proficient. You be to save his pilot possible. So i think that's that's probably by numbers our biggest market. There's three hundred thousand inspiration pilot. Tonight's there's one hundred thousand. Cf is so see. If is it's a bit of a. I think it's a moneymaker for flight schools especially in this market. It pays to be the best and you want to track your students in just like you wanna have nice. Lean airplanes and professional. Cfi's you have the best tools possible because you know those those Coming in investing you know twenty thousand dollars you want them to choose you. So that's that's the selling point for them for so that's opposite. Alargemarket between the cfpb is in the flight schools. But also the the private guy that just wants to be proficient you. You've got gotta log your your purchase. Usc proficient and current and acres definitely helped me do that. Well obviously the vice is a lot more expensive than the traditional hoods but it's probably the only electric could that's out there. Tell us about the pricing for it. So right now we just launched and were of bootstrapping this company so pricing right now is fifteen. Hundred dollars for the helicopter vice. There's a bit more components to it and thousand dollars for the Wing device and you get a lot was not set goals and and people think it's a direct comparison between the the fog And that's not my competition. My competition is is poor instrument proficiency in a high accident rate so the end goal. Is that a safer. Population of pilots is is cheaper to ensure and it pays to be proficient. I haven't met a lot of pilots are cowboys in. Nobody wants to be a dangerous isla. Everyone wants to have take people landings still the competition really. Is the accident rate. Not not what we've been doing since twenty nine. I'll never be as a twenty dollars vice but at the same time you. If you're out they're paying you. Know hundreds of dollars to rent an airplane or to fire on point with an instructor with your shift by buddy. And you're you want the best and this is definitely the best. Well i think years ago nobody would have believed that we routinely pay a hundred thousand dollars for headsets yet. A lot of people do that so may not be that outrageous or sectional on my wall. You know how often do you see. A guy actually allowed a sectional in owego five that no you fly with the thousand dollar ipad that has you know subscription electronic white back. It's kind of a similar thing you know. They're both maps but you get a lot more functionality out of electrified bag than you do. A paper that's a really excellent comparison. Thanks so much for spending time with here today. We're do people go to find out more about you. And about the device it grew devices dot com so Instrument conditions awareness recognition understanding system by dot com. That's super nick. Thanks so much for spending time with us here today. Thanks matt take and my thanks to nixon -opoly for making time to talk with us. I always enjoy stories about entrepreneurs says without them. We wouldn't have many of the innovative new products that we enjoy using today. You can find out more about nick. And the device at devices with an s dot com coming up next a few of my updates right here on the aviation news. Talk podcast you know for a few updates. Last night. i was driving home. And i was listening to episode ten of the male clinic. Clear approach podcast. Which is hosted by. Dr greg van and discusses medical issues for pilots and he was talking about new guidance. That's just come out from the faa if you have had covid nineteen and the good news is if you've had a mild case you can probably get your next medical issued by your local ame that you go to for your a but if you've had a more severe case especially if you were hospitalized there are going to be more hoops that you're going to have to jump through and you may not be able to get medical directly from your local ame so if you've had cove it and you are due for an a. A medical you may want to check out this episode before you go to your appointment. At of course i'll have linked to it in the show notes. Let's talk briefly about headsets. I think i mentioned that. I started teaching again a couple of weeks ago and i typically fly six to seven hundred hours. A year semi headsets. Get a lot of use in what i've found. Is that every few years. The soft material on the earcups starts to flake off. And i can usually tell when that starts to happen by the black dandruff that i see in my white shirt after i take off my headset in. So that's what i know. It's time to order replacement earcups from headset. So i did that again. In in my case. I use headsets from light speed and my primary headset is. There's zulu three. I also have two other lightspeed headsets. I use mostly for the first lesson or two with a new student pilot. Who doesn't yet have a headset ordering that you're cups was easy. I just found the phone number for light speed in reached person who took the order. Their package of consumables includes two new ear cups in a pad. That cushions the top of your head from the headset. All three items quickly snap into place. When they arrived. I had all the pieces installed within just a couple of minutes also. They include to foam windscreens at slip over your headset. Microphone if you've ever lost while those pieces of foam you know how important they are as your microphone will pick up a lot of annoying noise in the cockpit if you don't have that phone place so if you're finding that your headset ear seals are getting worn regardless of what headset you use. You might wanna think about ordering replacements for the year cups. Also another thing about headsets. I made an interesting discovery a week or so ago that i which figured out a year ago. This may apply to you if you either wear sunglasses during flight. And or if you're wearing a face mask in the cockpit i always forget the name of that part of the sunglasses that extends back from the lenses in rest on the top of your ears just had to go look it up again. Those folding arms of your eyeglasses or sunglasses are called temples and usually when you're flying and wearing a headset or sunglasses. The temples of your sunglasses ended up under the earcups of your headset. Unfortunately the temples do a good job of breaking the seal of the headsets cups. And of course the seal of the ear cup around your ear and against the side of your face is an important factor in how quiet your headset is going to be so long ago. I figured out that in order to keep my headset quiet. I needed to raise the temples up so they didn't rest on my ears but instead under the very top of the headset seals or even above the headset seals. That does tilt the angle of your sunglass lenses. A little bit. But not so much. That i've ever found it to be a problem in the cockpit. I'm still wearing a mask. When i'm teaching the plane and when i was flying recently i noticed that the airplane noise i was hearing with my headset on seemed latter than usual. And that's what. I finally realized that those thin little tiny strings on the mask. I was wearing. We're doing exactly the same thing as the sunglasses. They were breaking the seal of the headset here cups. But the strings of the face mask so thin. It never occurred to me that they would be big enough to break the headset seal yet. They did so made a quick fix that. Those of you wearing masks the cockpit might wanna try instead of looping the mastering around my ears as i usually do i i put on the headset and then i looked the strings around the outside of the headset earcups and that simple little trick made my headset quiet as it always used to be when taking off the headset i reverse the process and luke. The mastering for my headset remove the headset. And then put the mastering back over my years. It's simple fix. But now my headset is much quieter in the cockpit. And my thanks to dan henderson. Who emailed me an image of a wind sock calibration sheet. Is he quickly points out. This is not something that's discussed much at all in pilot training or anywhere for that matter. I remember hearing years ago. That win sox at the airport were calibrated and brand. New insects are produced according to the guidelines of k which is icao. This means that all current models are calibrated to be fully inflated that is sticking straight out it wind speeds of fifteen knots or more now it turns out that you and i have been using the wrong name for the wind sock all these years. The faa gets it right. They refer to the wind sock as a wind cone. And they say that the wind cone will be fully extended at fifteen knots or seventeen miles per hour. Now i knew about the maximum speed of the wind sock. But i didn't know about the intermediate stripes on the milanov wind. Sox have five stripes if you have a three night breeze. That's apparently the minimum required to turn the wind sock around so that it's into the wind and that first striped there indicates a three not breeze if the second stripe is elevated sticking straight out. Then you're at about six knots. A wins if you have three stripes straighten level than you're at about nine nuts if the fourth stripe is also up the near twelve nuts and finally win all five stripes horizontal. You're at about fifteen nuts and if the wind sock has blown off its attachment than you probably shouldn't be at the airport. That tells you that things are pretty bad now. The faa does have a specification for a win cone assemblies. Who would have thought. It's an advisory circular one five zero slash fifty three forty five dash twenty seventy and of course include a link to it in our show notes. It of course to get to the show notes you can either find them by swiping one way or the other and whatever application you're listening to us on or just go out on the web to aviation news talk dot com slash one eight three for episode one eighty three. And i want to share with you. This message from patriot supporter. Greg van. he says in his email to me. I wanted to thank you for the information about winding the clock which we talked about in a recent episode is the first step in an emergency which basically means hyun to stop. Collect your wits before you respond to the emergency. He says with the kobe pandemic life has been moving so fast in healthcare that it has been hard to slow down at all over the past few months so the recommendation to stop and take a breather before responding situations was well-timed in received. I ended up using this in the real world. Right after the start of my private. Check ride after. The instructor got in. And i pulled up my checklist. The first thing i did was take a deep breath in wind. The clock which was actually the first time i had touched the old clock in the piper archer. I was in. It helped me calm down immensely. And ultimately i think helped me pass my test so greg. Thanks so much for your email. And congratulations to you on passing your private check ride. So what would you pay for. An hour of excellent flight instruction while you might want to consider signing up to be a patriot. Supporter like greg. It's easy to just go out to aviation news talk dot com slash awesome. Enter your credit card and choose. How much elect to donate each month or you can make a one time donation by going out to aviation news. Talk dot com slash pay pal. And you don't even need to have a pay pal account to do that. Just enter your credit card. And i want to thank the several new supporters who joined us this past week. We have three new mega supporters. And i'll probably watch the names here. But i'll get them corrected next time. Dave brochure bro. She has supported us at one hundred dollars a month. Level chris carnahan longtime supporter has ended his pledge up to fifty dollars a month and kent museu is edited his pledge also up to one hundred dollars a month. And i'll tell you more about these three new mega supporters. Next time and greg williams edited his pledge up to twenty dollars a month. And michael. Scott is a new patron supporter. And now. here's our rule of mega supporters. Those are people who donate fifty dollars a month or more and i mentioned their name once a month and after two months they get one of my books for free. Those mega supporters include. brian deer. Who lives in northern california recently moved to texas. He has a turbo two. Oh six mark souza his a student pilot flying a one fifty two the chicago executive airport and he's getting close to his private check right. Tyson weiss we've had on the show here co founder and ceo four flight bruce dickerson. He's a financial planner. Living in georgia and flies a k. Thirty five bonanza daybreak. Who i just mentioned. Victor vogel who lives in central. Pa and flies a cirrus tim delaney. He's a wealth manager in santa rosa california flies. Sr twenty two out of the santa rosa airport. Stephen ella who i mentioned earlier. He's on the cover of my g. Three thousand g five thousand book. He flies a turbo one. Eighty two citation. Cj three plus and he's the ceo of api jet. Mike williams who i just heard from. He's the president of tcp composites maker of composite spinners and bulkheads for j. aircrafts and he flies a cessna. One seventy two seth lake. He's dp arkansas. Gives check rides. He also specializes in giving multi engine training and you can check them out at vs. l. dot ero rick miller he's a cfi in the cincinnati area. He teaches both out of the lankan flight training center as well as to private owners of piper. Cessnas beechcraft and cicadas. He'd love to teach fulltime but he still has that day job for a few more years just in winners brokers real estate on lake keo we in south carolina and flies. Sr twenty two carlin an rossi of maine coon cat aviation. They have two cessna t to forty aircraft and piper n three fifty. On order johnny mcdaid. He's a singer songwriter. Musician and record producer. Jim gold foss lang out of republic airport on long island. He's training for his. Cf i and and he's giving ground school at pilot proficiency international. He can be reached on his facebook page of ground point. Nine available for individual instruction in person or online charlie mason flies out of austin and is working on his instrument rating vincent selimi vice mayor for the city of california. He's the owner of sleepy construction management in san francisco. he's also president of the concord. Flying club jim hop a fire flown with he teaches at advantage aviation at the palo. Alto airport joseph. She handle. I just mailed a book out to. He flew in the navy for eight years and now has a few hundred hours in his new vision. Jet josie freeman. He's working on his instrument rating dylan caldwell. He's an ame in florida. The naples municipal airport. So if you need a basic med second or third class life physical you can find him at aviators clinic. Dot com william birch donates the show in the memory of his son. Lieutenant j g wallace birch who was a naval aviator don hak-lae with professional instrument courses. They conduct ten-day instrument courses. Iof are finish up and a refresher courses you can find them at. I fly dot com. Don dome is a professional pilot. Who runs an airline flight department. He's also see if i m flies. A bonanza rick. Madison owner of point. Wise which makes computational fluid dynamics simulation software used by aerospace companies there at point wise dot com. John toaster lives in flint michigan and flies the four planes for rent at the greater flint pilots association. He also co owns a turkey. Six park holes. Black lives in south western. Pa he's a longtime aviation enthusiast. Who wants to get his private. When he retires he runs bod steel dot com. Which makes industrial fasteners. Tim crawford flies a da. Forty out of crosswinds aviation at the oakland county airport north of detroit. He runs a company called brain spring. That helps children with dyslexia greg van. He's a senior ame at the mayo clinic. Rochester minnesota and host of the male clinic. Clear approach podcast which discusses medical issues for pilots. James curves thinking about buying an sr twenty two for business travel. He has a company that makes security screens for protecting your home and you can find out more at boss security screens dot com orell english. He's a cfi w at the westchester flying club at westchester county airport in new york in france of created a website to make free flight. Planning modern fast site is called flyway and you can check it out at flyway dot. Cc ed kelly flies a serotonin out of mount pleasant south carolina and says his two year old son bennett is the best co-pilot he could have. Jeff brown sean. Just set a book to michael. Ron a book from me. He runs a small wealth management firm in woodland texas. You can find them at the some. That's as um planning dot com. He's thinking about buying a serious tussle lives in arizona and flies in sr twenty two increase. Carnahan who will tell you more about next time. And as i mentioned earlier in the show please take a moment right now. Stop what you're doing and show this episode with a friend. Just click the share button on. Whatever app that you're listening to and then follow up with them and ask them to either subscriber followed depending upon the app aviation news talk so until next time fly safely half fun peop- the blue side up.

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157 5 Ways Somatogravic Illusion is Killing Pilots + GA News

Aviation News Talk podcast

57:35 min | 1 year ago

157 5 Ways Somatogravic Illusion is Killing Pilots + GA News

"Logan welcomed Aviation News, talk a weekly show with relevant news and flying tips for pilots and student pilots to help keep you safe I'm extra Scott. For main topic today, we're GONNA talk about Samata illusion if you're thinking what the heck is that and why do I care? Well, the reason is it continues to kill pilots including private pilot's instrument pilots, commercial airline pilots, and even glider pilots, and once you understand it, it's relatively easy to avoid these kinds of accidents. But if you don't, it can kill you before you know what happened. And today I'm dedicating the show to my best friend Ron Carmichael who just passed away from cancer and I'll tell you more about ron during the update section of the show. Last weekend episode one, Fifty, six, we talked about the crash of an atlas era seven, sixty seven and that many lessons Ta pilots can learn from that crash. So if you didn't hear, you may want to check it out I. especially recommend the Youtube version of that episode. Now available on Youtube just search for aviation news talk it shows the videos and graphic shown at the NTSB board meeting about the crash and I'm happy to announce a New. Video benefit for listeners who support the show via Patriot at the twenty dollars a month or higher level which I'll tell you about during updates who, of course, you can donate to the show at any level at aviation news talk dot com slash awesome more aviation news talk dot com slash paypal this week the news some pilots recently received a letter from the FAA. Send need to take their check rides over and we'll tell you why. There was a lot of virtual activity online last week related to air venture. And Light Sport aircraft crashed into an operating control tower and we'll tell you where that happen fortunately everyone survived all this and more, and the news starts now From the FAA website last week, the F. A. issued an order of particular interest to anyone who's ever taken a check ride with Michael. A Euler that's P. U. E. H. l. e. r., and if you were affected by this order, you've probably already received a letter in the mail from the FAA now, here's the bad news. If you've ever taken a check ride with Mr Mueller, there's a possibility you'll need to take that check right over again and this time with an FAA inspector or you can temporarily surrender your certificate. The good news. If there is any, the FAA doesn't charge check rides. Now, this burden may fall most heavily on people who took their commercial their ATP OR THEIR CFI with Mr Mueller as you may be relying on that certificate for your job, and here's what the sixteen page orders says in part quote as a result of an investigation by the FAA of the certification activities. of Mr Mueller, the administrator determined that there is reason to believe that the competency of the airman examined by Mr Bueller from the period of October two, thousand, eight through December twenty nineteen is in doubt all airmen who were tested by and receive certificates or ratings for Mr. Mueller during the site at type period will be reexamined by the FAA inspector airman who renewed their flight instructor. Certificates or related their fly instructor certificate with Mr. Peeler are also included in this reexamination notice and airmen may be exempted from the reexamination requirement only under the following specific conditions one after having received certificates or ratings for Mr Mueller the men's was subsequently tested and received from a different designated pilot examiner or an FAA specter, a higher level US certificate or rating in the same category. In class as at previously issued by Mr Mueller, this exemption is specifically limited to the following recreational pilots are exempt. They later took the private pilot commercial pilot from someone else by the way, there are no exemptions if you took your commercial ATP or any see if I check rides such as an initial or additional rating or a fine sector reinstatement or renewal check ride with appeal. Airmen in the process of taking an exam that meet the criteria set forth in this notice that would exclude them from reexamination must contact Cincinnati fizzed upon receipt of their letter. The reexamination should normally take place within fifteen days of the letter of notification. If the airman cannot complete the exam within fifteen days of receipt of their letter, the airman must contact the Cincinnati Fizeau temporarily deposit his or her airman certificate. In accordance with Paragraph Eight, if the does not intend to operate aircraft short period of time or needs time to practice and cannot meet the fifteen day deadline, the airman must temporarily deposit his or her Aaron Certificate at the Physio for a maximum of thirty days. Now I was wondering what could have led the FAA to require airmen to be reexamined under situations like this Sent Jason Blair DP we've had on the show and email later talked by phone. He gave several reasons why the FAA has required examinations in the past and when I read this list by the way, this has nothing to do with. MR, Mueller is neither. Knows why the FAA is requiring reexamination in that case? So let me be clear. I'm not saying Mr. Pillar, did any of these things but here are things that occurred in prior cases with other DP ease for which the FAA has. Reexamination when DP's have done some of the following things including issuing certificates for applicants that didn't meet training experience requirements doing short check rides don't meet ACS or pts requirements. Pay To pass situations where pilots paid to pass their check ride or issuing certificates applicants who were not English proficient. From flying MAG DOT COM by aerospace receives ten million dollars in new funding. By Aerospace says it completed of five million dollars strategic investment by venture capital group earlier, this year that investment was followed by the completion of five million dollar venture raise by aerospace's the developer of the all electric e Flyer family of a par- twenty-three certified aircraft. George. By CEO by aerospace said in a news release, the investments have allowed by aerospace to begin working on serial number one, the first production conforming prototype of its two seat. He Flyer to aircraft by noted that although the to financial transactions successfully closed during coronavirus restrictions, much of the due diligence in planning was completed before the cove nineteen pandemic escalated quote. Since raising the ten million dollars, we have completed critical design review in early June and are now underway with multiple test flights of the Flyer to technology demonstrator. From a dot Org Robert Dealer INTAS overfly the North Pole while we've had him here on the show in the past he is the then pilot author and Alpa Opinion Leaders Blogger who's been on a quest overfly both the south and north polls since last November well, he completed that task on July tenth fly over the North Pole on a flight leg of marred by system malfunctions in challenging weather. Dealer RENTA's who had claimed the South Pole on December sixteenth checked in with supporters on social media from Fairbanks. Alaska moments after completing an Hour leg of flying is modified aero commander twin from northern Sweden. North Pole the magnetic North Pole and the North Pole of inaccessibility, which is defined as the Arctic ice furthest from any landmass. Challenges cropped up two hours into the polar push above a solid overcast it was forecast to persistent Alaska. Communications became difficult to both his h F radio and satellite phone with hours of over water fly ahead as dealer. RENTA's near the North Pole is dual flight management systems. GPS units began failing in the absence of a satellite signal. However quote, my autopilot would still hold in heading mode. So I made the adjustment and continued on my way using my ipad, he wrote to Alpa. Just a few miles from the North Pole at thirty thousand feet. One of his attitude and heading reference systems went off line quickly followed by the auto pilot malfunctioning. System Glitch torrence continued for several hours when the systems came back online at the coast of Alaska, they acted like the bad school child who misbehaves when the teachers out of the room and then reverts to being the perfect angle and the teacher returns deloris wrote I realized that the issue was the lack of satellite signal not that the systems weren't working. Having faced down the navigation problems. Now, the weather became uncooperative with his destination. Alaska. prudhoe Bay sucked in he was forced to push on to fairbanks taking advantage of the commanders extended fuel carrying capacity. Dealer said it was hard to put into words how he felt on landing in Fairbanks were pizza lunch awaited him. He was joined by a film crew that had been recording his earth rounding adventure. The lorenza embarked on the polar flight in the aircraft citizen of the world to focus attention on science technology engineering and math education, and to promote awareness of general aviation in two thousand fifteen he logged circumnavigation by a non polar route which we talked about back in episode one nineteen. So I'd like to extend my hearty congratulations to you. Robert can't wait to talk to you soon. Congratulations. From flying back dot com, Garmon suffers ransomware attack carbon suffered a ransomware attack that encrypted some of IT systems on July twenty third twenty twenty, and by the way, if you're unfamiliar with that term, ransomware is a form of malware that encryption victims files. The attacker then demands rents from the victim to restore access to the data upon payment users are then shown instructions on how to pay a fee to get the decryption key continue on with a story from flying magazine, the garment connect service and connectivity through fly garment, Dot Com and the Garmon pilot APP were among those areas affected though. The SOS and reach systems remained online and available it an update from the company posted on July twenty seventh Carmen announced that many of our online services were interrupted including website functions, customer support customer facing applications, and company communications. We immediately began to assess the nature of the attack and started remediation. We have no indication that any customer data including payment information from garment pay was access lost or stolen. Additionally, the functionality of garment products was not affected other than the ability to excess online services, company email, and some customer service functions were also affected with services restored on July twenty seventh as well. And on a happier note, this comes from skies MAG dot com Carmen announced a virtual air venture oshkosh experience unless we garment international and other companies, Ella Virtual Air Venture Oshkosh, a series of free educational webinars and product demonstrations on a wide range of topics. If you didn't catch any of those live presentations you are in luck because garment recorded the sessions and has posted all of those videos online I've included a link in. The show notes that will take you to all of those videos to get to the show notes is always just go out to the web to aviation news talk dot com slash one, fifty seven or if you're listening to us on a smartphone, you should be able to swipe on the screen while you're listening to this episode to get to the show notes Garment Lincoln than any other links that we post for each show. And from flying MAG, dot com redbird connect enables virtual pilot proficiency center also as part of a virtual air venture. Last week, redbird connect debuted as an effective no-cost platform for flight instructors and their students to train using flight simulation in video conferencing technology using a web based version of redbirds flight simulator operating system redbird navigator. In a news release redbird said from anywhere in the world instructors now will be able to guide and control flight training sessions on redbird simulators by setting and changing the weather initiating failures, positive pausing flights, repositioning aircraft, and more combined with a live video feed of the student flight instructors can simultaneously oversee the students hand flying and critical flight data. A significant feature of the regular venture show for years has been the pilot proficiency center with Redbird as a sponsor staffed with volunteers. CFI members of the five professional societies safe in nafee the onsite PPC an odd is normally filled with dozens of simulators. And using this technology last week redbird put on a virtual pilot proficiency center offered pilots a chance to try their hand flying a number of challenging far via far scenarios using remotely located simulators. Students just needed a Webcam to connect with instructors via zoom link, which made the virtual simulator training work. As you may recall, we talked on the show couple of months ago about liberty, university going to online simulator training. So expect to see more of this kind of thing in the future. In. International news from ABC Web Dot Com Australian sleuth out co as it caused a float plane crash. Australian authorities have determined that carbon monoxide poisoning was behind the mysterious crash of a floatplane, their Sydney kill the high time beaver pilot, and five members of a prominent British family. On New Year's Eve twenty. Pilot Gareth Mortgage Sydney seaplanes inexplicably lost control of the radial engine equipped to have one beaver floatplane while setting up to land on. Jerusalem bay in good visibility and benign weather. Morgan forty-four who had more than ten thousand hours on the beaver was killed along with Richard cousins. CEO Compass Group and for of cousins family members investigators couldn't find anything wrong with the airplane or the pilot and we're stump for 'cause until an Australian Transportation Safety Board doctor suggested they look for CEO in the tissues of the victims earlier this year the tissue samples had been stored pending the. Finalisation of the investigation and testing confirmed that Morgan into the passengers had elevated levels of co in their systems, and of course, we talked about carbon monoxide poisoning and episodes eighty-eight and ninety of aviation news talk, and since then I've had a number of people come up to me and tell me that they have purchased Co Monitor. So that's something you may want to consider if you don't have one. And finally from arch I'd that's A. R. C. H. Y. D. E. dot com a plane crashes into control tower in Germany in the eastern Germany and airplane crashed into the control tower of a regional airport the devices now hanging on the tower miraculously, the tower seemed to have hardly any damage not even windows were broken the two occupants, the pilot age, sixty, eight, and forty, six year old. Son. Were taken to a hospital with unknown injuries a man who was in the control tower at the time of the crash was unharmed. The accident happened at Eggers Dorf airport about fifty kilometers east of Berlin according to the police. The recovery of the wreckage difficult inside the propeller plane is a small rocket that can fire a parachute as part of a rescue system that rock must first be deactivated. In separately from plane and pilot magazine, it says that the aircraft involved was a flight design, C T S W that crashed into the tower I haven't flown the CPS W I, have flown the LS and I thought I was just a wonderful light sport aircraft. So sorry to hear that this accident occurred but having the pilot in the sun survived. Well, that's the news for this week coming up next my weekly updates, and then we'll get onto are being topic, which is some monographic allusion in the five ways it can kill pilots all right here on the aviation news talk podcast. Let's start our updates with a fun flying destination. Max, this is Charles on the president of a club lives Liza nineteen thirty eight, J. Three Piper cub out of one w one growth field two nautical miles east of pediatrics I love to fly to the Western antique aeroplane and Automobile Museum better known as the Wham in river forty nautical miles of the Columbia at four Sierra to the Ken Journ Stat Airport. The whim is in several huge hangers on the north side of the field about one hundred yard walk from transient parking. The museum has a huge collection of flying o x five powered airplanes. The world's oldest blowing a model forty and many other prewar to air claims. The crown. Jewel of the collection is barn find nineteen seventeen. J. N. for de Jenny it was meticulously restored onsite. The JAAS captain flying condition has or most of the airplanes in the collection and many planes were flown over the summer. If you visit on second Saturday, you can see a few the plane's up close on the ramp and usually a few of them were flown weather permitting. At the last a in the museum is automobile and they have huge collectible cars as well and a very popular model t driving school. The museum website is Wham Museum Dot Org you can find it at w. a. m. on Google. Check to win before you go is hood rivers world-famous strong steady winds in the summer. If you like old planes in your important, you got to check this place out. Thanks to the PODCAST Max I love it Charles thanks so much for sharing your fun flying destination and yes, it is windy up there. Last summer I flew in and out of the dolls, which is about fifteen miles east of there along the Columbia River I was bringing a s fifty vision jet out of there and we watched another jet crew make three attempts to try and land before they finally got it on the ground there. So yeah, pretty windy up there. Thanks so much for sending that in and if you have. A Fun Flying Destination and I'm guessing you do all pilots have her favorite place to go go ahead and make a recording for me. You can take your smartphone, use the voice memo, APP, record about ninety seconds and then email it to me at aviation news talk at g mail dot com or you can just go out to our website at aviation news talk dot Com Click on listener question that the top that's GonNa take you to the speak pipe recording device. We can then record up to ninety seconds and that will come to me automatically via email. Charles thanks again for some of that fund flying destination. Now I don't usually read the many nice reviews that people right either I tunes or the apple podcast APP or the Google podcast APP because I think that's just a little bit self serving but. I really like this one. So I'M GONNA. Read it. You'll see why moment here it's titled. Love to listen. It says I. May be only thirteen years old but I hope to be a pilot when I grow up so I listen and get as much information as I can. Thanks and that's it well. You are most welcome. Thanks so much for leaving that review. Let me tell you that that's about the age I was when I started subscribing to flying magazine which I read as a teenager and then I started taking flying lessons when I was fifteen years old. So thank you very much for listening. Just remember if you can dream it, you can do it. So I'm sure you will be a great pilot because you're already doing one of the most important things you can do as a pilot and you are learning learning learning and that's something you need to do throughout your entire life especially if you want to be a safe pilot thanks so much for leaving that review. And speaking of safe pilots. Let me tell you about my best friend Ron Carmichael and I'm sorry to say that I've never told him that he was my best friend and I'm so sorry that he won't hear this. But I certainly hope he knew that he meant a lot to me. I looked it up and I I flew with Ron in two thousand four, which was longer ago than I realized I flew with him I that the Reid Hillview airport in San Jose where I first started teaching and where he learned to fly. A year later I moved my teaching to Palo Alto airport because it's cooler, it's closer to my home and because they had glass cockpit airplanes there for rent that I could teach. While they were known at the time it Reid hillview well run must've liked me as he followed me to Palo Alto and we continue to fly for the next fifteen years. Ron Spend about thirty Seven Years Teaching Science and coaching basketball. He started teaching Staten Island New York and he later moved to San Jose California in nineteen sixty eight where he taught at dartmouth middle school he really loved the space program and he started a model Rocketry Program School Henin's I recall from the stories he told me that they use to launch right next to Moffett field, which is where NASA Ames located speaking of Moffett field it's large former navy airfield that's close to the public but Ron And I have both flown out of there years ago there was a young Eagle event that was held there. So Ron and I rented a Cessna One seventy two at Palo Alto, which is four miles away fluid over to Moffett field and took turns piloting taking teenagers for ride in the airplane. Now, that was probably the highlight of all the flying that Ron and I did together as it did tick a box for both of us which was to be able to land and take off at Moffett field. But what I liked the most and will miss. The most was are many conversations which were often over hotdog at Costco or it beeps restaurant at the livermore airport? One didn't do much on his own in later years. So typically, he'd hire me to fly with him to practice landings and we often took off an hour for lunch in the middle of the flight. He was sixteen years older than me, and in some ways, he was a father figure. He always took a strong interest in me and was incredibly complimentary of my teaching and he was very nurturing. He listened for. About the crazy things I had to go through with my family of origin as my mother aged and later died and he shared how he had similar dynamics with one of his siblings. And of course, we talked ad nauseam about politics. He was not only a great friend, but he remained a great teacher years after he retired. Ron. had very slowly developing form of cancer which was in remission for many years and unfortunately when we last talked in mid. June and he told me that the cancer was catching up with him. I didn't realize that he'd be gone in just a few weeks I've been planning to take him up on his mutation to visit in his backyard while social distancing, but he was gone before a call the schedule at. And I wish now I'd gone to visit for a proper goodbye but I know I'm a better person for having spent so much time with him and I miss a lot. Lon- rest in peace. Good friend. In early this is the point, the show where I would be talking about. Patriot. But dominate going to defer that. Until after we talk about our main topic, which is fortunately prerecorded. This is the first time ever I recorded this a couple of days ago because I was trying to produce a youtube version of this inhabit ready for you at the same time the podcast came out. So if you'd like go on out to YouTube, look for aviation news cock, go ahead in subscribe while you're there just click on the little button in the lower right hand corner and then look for the Video on five ways, pilots kill themselves with some monographic illusion. I've got a link in the show notes. So you can go there and that'll take you directly to the video a course you can listen to it here on the podcast, but I mentioned the video because I think this is one topic where there's some benefits to be able to see some of the animations that I put together to illustrate why the Human Brain Confuses acceleration with pitch up sensations, and of course, that was one of the factors that led to the Atlas Air Crash that we talked about an episode one, fifty six. So. Here's that recording. Now, let's talk about an important type of spatial disorientation that continues to kill lots of pilots in that somatotrophic graphic illusion. and. Here's why you should care. It. Doesn't matter how good a pilot you are or how many thousands of hours of flight time you have. If you don't understand some collusion, it can sneak up on you and kill you. So quickly, she'll have no idea why just died. It affects via far private pilots especially when flying at night could affect instrument pilots on takeoff and especially when going missed and it can even affect glider pilots and Dave. EMC conditions. And of course, somatic illusion was a key factor in the crash of analysis air. Boeing. Seven sixty seven, which we talked about an episode one, fifty six. Part of the reason that's a monographic allusion is so successful in killing pilots is that it is rarely taught to pilots. So when it happens, they have no idea that they've already been suckered into its trap vignette avoiding some graphic allusion is very easy. Unfortunately, the circumstances under which it occurs are relatively few and they're easy to identify at a time. So just as you would prepare for any emergency, you can prepare for dealing with monographic illusion. That way when it occurs, you were prepared and you won't fall into its sneaky and subtle traps. For somatic graphic allusion the response you need to take is very simple trust your instruments and manipulate the controls until the instruments show, you're at the correct attitude, which might be straight and level or maybe could be a normal climb depending upon what's needed for particular phase of flight. It really helps to understand what causes some graph illusion because once you understand that it's easy to understand why your body and your senses are lying to you in creating that powerful sensation that makes you feel as if the aircraft is an pitch attitude that's very far off from the aircraft's actual pitch attitude it's also helpful to know the most common circumstances in which you may encounter some graphic illusion. So you can be prepared for its affects and force yourself to ignore the strong sensations. Your body gives you about the aircraft pitch that are totally wrong. The best way to understand how some autograph collusion works is to try to understand the sensor, which is giving us false information when our bodies accelerated and that sensor one of the odorless organs that we have in our inner ear that helps us detect the position her head. When you're walking or running, it's really helpful for your body to know if your head is leaning to the side or if it's pitched up or down, and that's what the oath organs tell us. Now, we have to odorless in each ear and their position at right angles to each other. One of interest to us today is the you trickle, which gives us feedback on how much the head is tilted forward or backwards. Before describing the trickle in detail let's I imagine very simple version of it. Magin that you take a small piece of wood perhaps a piece of two by four, even a small piece of plywood. then. Find a piece of wire that stiff enough so that when you bend one end of it and then let go it springs back to it's original position. then. Take perhaps about six inches of that wire and stick it into the woods so that the wire goes straight up. Next take a golf ball drills small hole into it and mother golf ball on top of the wire since the wire is stiff and standing straight up, the golf ball is nicely centered on the top of the wire. What we've just constructed is a version of one of the many tiny hairs represented by the wire that since motion the oath organs inside our ears. And those tiny hairs do have a mass on top of them, which I'll describe it a bit more detail later. But for now, just imagine that each of those hairs has a tiny golf ball on top of it and that we can sense whenever the hairs move and the direction they move. Now let's take one of the board and lifted up. So it's higher than the other end of the board. If you're watching the Youtube version this podcast, you're singing the animation I created of this. I'm sure you can imagine that when you lift one end of the board, the weight of the golf balls going to tilt the wire back toward the low end of the board. And that's how the hairs the trickle in your ear react when you tilt your head backwards. As those hairs Ben Backwards, we correctly perceive that are head is tilted up because gravity apply to that mass at the end of each hair is pulling the hair backwards. The same thing happens when we are in an airplane in a climb, but only after the climates stabilized and we're climate a constant rate. Since airplane is pitched up the weights on the ends of the hair are bending the Harris backwards, and we correctly perceived our body is not straight and level, but is tilted backwards. For example, if we took our board and attach it to the floor airplane, we would see the same thing in a climb. The Golf Ball would be tilted toward the back of the airplane throughout her climb well so far so good the trickle are year is working the way it's supposed to work. Now, let's look at how the trickle gets confused in this modern era where we drive fast cars and fly airplanes. For next animation will take the device. We constructed the board wiring Golf Ball, and instead it down large smooth table. Then take your hand in rapidly slide the board from one of the table to the other to accelerate the board. Notice when you do that the golf ball moves backwards toward the end of the table from where you started. Also note that when you stop moving the board, the golf ball moves forward toward the end of the table where you stopped pushing the board. In both these demonstrations, the first where we lifted one end of the board of the second where we slid the board across the table, the golf ball move to the backside of the board, and if this device was one of the hairs in the U. trickle and our inner ear, we would have perceived that motion as our head tilting backwards. But notice in the second demonstration that the board was perfectly level as we accelerated across the table, it never pitched up. So, what you can see from this demonstration is that if we could only use the trickles to tell us what's happening to our body, we would never be able to tell the difference between our head tilting backwards in our body being accelerated forward because the feeling we experience is identical. But we do have other sensations in our body including vision, and so if we can look outside and we can see the horizon, we can use that additional information to confirm that the pitch up feeling we're getting from the trickle is real or if that same pitch up filling, we're getting from the trickle is caused by acceleration. We can see the horizon hasn't moved and know that the feeling we're getting from our you trickle that feeling like a pitch up is actually acceleration in not a real pit shop. and. That's why for the vast majority of our lives monographic collusion is not a problem and we don't pay any attention to it. But if you take away that clear view of the horizon, you no longer have a way to distinguish between whether the pitch up sensation you're getting from the trickle is truly a pitch up climb or is linear acceleration with no climb. So. Let's talk about the situations where pilots are most likely to be confused by some monographic allusion in Kalamazoo. Nearly twenty years ago. I. wrote an article for Ab Web dot com about night flying safety in illusions I wrote about with some monographic allusion. It occurs when pilots take off at night over a poorly lit area. So this is most likely to occur at airports located next to water, which appears black at night. It also occurs at airports in rural areas where you might be immediately over farm fields with no lights after takeoff and also enforced it in mountainous areas where there won't be any lights below you immediately after takeoff in all of those situations somatic Ravi collusion can be very strong and most of these accidents occur within one mile the airport. What happens in these situations is that as the aircraft accelerates during takeoff so monographic illusion causes pilots to perceive their head as tilting backwards and pilots will perceive that they're gonNA climb. Since. They will perceive that they are climbing. They won't pull back on the yoke enough to actually climb instead they are often flying straight and level or may actually be pushing forward on the yoke to give them a small decent. Now, this has never problem daytime is even though pilots experience the same sensations, the view of houses and trees below them gives them a correct sense of how close they are to the ground. So they'll pull back on the OH correctly but at night and went flying over a dark and poorly lit area pilots won't get any visual feedback and won't be aware that they're flying level instead of climbing. The solution to this problem is very simple when taking off at night, pilots must look at their instruments immediately after rotation and verify climate v. y. the best rate of climb speed for their aircraft and that the vertical speed indicator is showing a positive rate of climb. Pilots have to resist the temptation push four on the oak when their senses specifically one of the trickles is telling them incorrectly that they're in a climb. The same exact problem can occur when doing an instrument takeoff visibility is poor and especially when taking off in zero zero weather instrument pilots, you probably know that part one, thirty, five, charter aircraft and part one. twenty-one airliners are not permitted to take off in zero zero conditions because it is so dangerous but gee, pilots flying under part ninety one are permitted to try these dangerous takeoffs. However, what many of these pilots don't know is that taking off in Zeros or weather is especially dangerous because the effects monographic allusion are so strong in poor visibility in zero zero weather. I can tell you that I did take off one zero zero way before I became a CFI and it was one of the scariest experiences I've had flying and I will never do it again. Later, we had a takeoff accident involving monographic collusion at my home airport that killed all four people on board assessment three, ten took off in zero zero. The weather was so bad that day that the tower was unable to clear them for take off because they could not see the runway. Wherever, they did advise the aircraft that it they were permitted to take off but at their own risk. The aircraft made it about a mile before it crashed into a high-tension tower while flying straight and low clouds at about fifty feet above the ground. Later hired me to give a presentation to people in the community who wanted to know more about this crash. So, what you can see is that being in the clouds similar flying via far at night over dark areas. In both cases, you can't see the ground and so it's easy to be tricked by some autograph collusion into believing that you were climbing when you're actually flying straight and level. A third situation where smart graphic allusion is very common is at the beginning of a missed approach after pilot has flown instrument approach procedure and decides to go around I. See this virtually every time I fly with instrument pilot at minimums pilot will push the go-round button. If they have one in most aircraft, they'll disconnect the autopilot. Then they'll add full power which acceleration and then raise the flaps and landing gear. But what almost all failed to do is to pull back and pitch the aircraft up for climb. Why? Because are you trickles are incorrectly telling them that they are pitched up and climbing I can't tell you how many times I've seen pilots accelerating in the clouds level at two hundred feet above the ground and not climbing. This is incredibly dangerous, but also easy to fix instrument pilots. When you're going missed, remember to pick up verify that you're climbing at v. y. and that you have a positive rate of climb on the SL otherwise, you too may become an NTSB statistic. A. Four situation worse monographic allusion can occur though it's less likely as win landing especially in poor visibility. As craft decelerate either in the flare after you're on the ground deceleration will give a false sense. Your noses pitched down pilots who aren't looking at the horizon will then tend to pull back too much on the yoke to counter what really is a false sense that their noses pointed down a possible fifth situation where some monographic collusion can occur is in gliders. This is not well documented and you would think this should be an issue in gliders because all flying is done in VMC and you should be able to see the horizon. Now, the following comes from paper presented by UK pilot Derek pig. Oh, that's G G ot who noted a number of accidents caused by unexpected dives. He attributed this to a low g sensitivity among inexperienced pilots but frankly, it sounds exactly like some graphic allusion because even though these glider pilots could see outside they still reacted in response to that false pitch sensation felt from somatotrophic collusion. Now. Here's a portion of what he wrote. Over the past twenty years or so there have been a surprising number of accidents in which the glider has gone into an ever-steepening dive until it hits the ground. Unless the pilots survive, it is impossible. Be Sure of the cause of these accidents and it is difficult to believe that any fully trained pilot withhold the stick hard forward when to pull pullback would save his life. The first such accident I know about occurred in nineteen, fifty two when releasing the winch cable the Cadet MK Two went into a vertical dive ground past the vertical. There's absolutely no sign of technical failure and at the inquest medical authorities suggested either panic state or first epileptic fit as possible causes. However any form of fainting or loss of consciousness would apparently have resulted in relaxation rather than a push forward on the stick and the glider being stable would have started to recover. Another accident for which no definite cause could be found occurred to a two seater making a normal approaching rather turbulent conditions. In this case, the glider was seen to dive suddenly into a railway embankment just short of the airfield. Probably, a reduction in loading was caused by the nose being lowered quickly or by turbulence, and apparently the student pushed hard forward on the stick. In this case student was reported to be very sensitive, too low G., and there was evidence that the instructor had shouted out just before the crash. A personal experience not long afterwards convinced me of the cause of this accident I was fully aware that my student was very sensitive to low G. and was working on the problem about fifty feet on a normal approach. We had some rough air so that momentarily we almost left our seats, the students immediate and instinct of reaction was to push forward on the stick. I was just quick enough to close the air brakes and pull hard and we hit the ground hard. But on an even Keel Alabama second later, we would have crashed probably been badly injured. In this case the student had reacted to what he thought was a stall, which by the way is exactly what the Atlas Air Seven Sixty seven accident pilot thought was happening when he pitched forward. So from this paper, it seems that even glider pilots can be subject to some graphic collusion. Earlier I mentioned that explain more about what the hairs inside the organs actually look like is obviously, they don't have golf balls on them. The followed comes from a NASA document and I'll include a link to it in the show notes. The underlying physiology and functioning of the organs are remarkably similar to those of the semicircular canals both systems depend upon inertia and the mechanical deflection of hair cells to initiate nerve impulses that are sent to the brain interpreted his body movement. The trickle contains a thick and patch of specialized cells called the Macula consists of sensory hair cells interspersed with supporting cells. The free hair like tufts extending from the hair cells are embedded in a gelatinous oath Olympic Membrane, which supports small piles of calcium carbonate crystals on its surface. Collectively, those crystals are called odorless the littlest increase the mass of the Olympic Membrane in give it more inertia even a slight movement of the. Membrane is enough to bend these hair cells and send sensory information to the brain. So to wrap up here, please remember these five situations that are known to generate some autograph illusion, which gives you a false sense of pitching up when you're accelerating in a false sense of pitching down when you're decelerating one taking off at night over a dark area with few lights to taking off in zero zero or very low visibility conditions. Three starting missed approach four when landing is the aircraft Selah rates in the flair or on the ground and five possibly in gliders specially following cable breaks on winch launches, and that was the prerecord portion coming up next, we've got listener feedback in a question about far right here on the aviation is talk podcast. I I wanted to tell you that I finally got back up in the air yesterday with a client who needed a flight review. He's been flying rarely throughout the pandemic and his flight review, which of course, was formerly called the B. F. R.. Was Do he's checked out in one seventy, two's one, eighty, two's, and we had started his check out in a series Sr twenty just as the pandemic hit cova cases have spiked here northern. California. To literally ten times what they were just six weeks ago I gave this a lot of thought before this first flight of mine and months we originally met up on zoom to do the hour of ground instruction that's required for a flight review, but we started talking about the FAA. Wings program and decided to do that in lieu of a flight review. So instead of the one hour of ground is able to take some online courses at qualify for the wings program. Then when we flew, we just have to follow three syllabi that lists the task he needs to perform to get his F. A. A. Wings after that he printed the certificate which email to the club to prove that he had completed the wings program and was good to fly for another two years. And the benefit to me CFI is that if I do the flight training for five pilots for the wings program within two years that gives me an automatic renewal of my cf I, which is less work than most of the other nine ways that you can renew a flight instructor certificate. So when we met yesterday at the plane, we were both wearing masks and I use my new forehead thermometer to take both of our temperatures. Yes I know that not all people who have covid nineteen get a fever but some do so I think that's a reasonable precaution I. chose to have his fly seventy two could leave my door open during taxi in leave my window open for most of the flight which really gave us great air circulation which I think further reduced any risk of transmitting the virus if either of US had it. So that was my first flight and months definitely felt great to get back in the air. And since I've so many a lot more time at home, these days have started producing more videos. All the PODCAST I've ever produced can be found on my aviation news talk Youtube Channel but most of these have the audio and one static image and no video per se but they're really helpful for people who may be working at home and want to stream them on Youtube in the background and don't care. There's no video but recently, I've been producing separate youtube videos that include full video. For example, this week I actually created the video before I did the podcast because I felt. That smadi Ravi collusion was one topic where it would really help the see what I was talking about first career, the animations, which we talked about in the main topic just a few moments ago and those really helped show how the inner ear lies to us when we're accelerating and gives us a very strong convincing feeling that we're pitched up climb when we're really just straight and level but accelerating. So if you haven't already definitely watched that video which posted yesterday for all of our Patriot supporters in which I'm posting today on Youtube about the same time as I released this podcast. And I've also started doing some videos that aren't connected current podcast episodes, but which are on important aviation topics of interest pilots. Over the last two months I've been adding to my podcast studio to make it more suitable for live streaming video presentations, and I started by giving a live presentation on Waas minimums, which I've now given twice last week I gave it to the Fullerton Airport Pilots Association which is down in southern California and I recorded that video. Video runs for about forty minutes and. Through the seven different kinds of minimums that you can find on GPS approaches hits always been confusing topic and it's one I'm often talking about with pilots, which is why I decided to give the presentation in make the video. Now I like trying new things and I love new benefits for our Patriot supporters who support aviation news talk. So the video's connected with a new podcast episode like the one I just posted on the monographic. Those go straight to youtube and everyone can see them there. But whenever I do a live presentation news topic, those replay videos of the live presentations are just available to Patriot supporters who support at the twenty dollar level and above. So if you're already a patron and supporter and you'd like to get your pledge up to twenty dollars, so you can immediately see that forty minute wasp minimums video. You can easily do that by going to Patriot, on click in the upper right choose managed memberships, and then edit if you have any trouble finding that just send me an email and if you've been thinking about becoming a Patriot member but haven't done so this is just a great reason to join now. Just, go out on the web to bution news talk dot com slash awesome or aviation news talk dot com slash patriotic that's P. A. T. R. O. N. and create an accountant sign up at whatever level you feel comfortable donating yet from two dollars a month up to two hundred dollars a month, and you can read about all the benefits you get at each level or if you have a pay pal account, you can use that to make a one. Time donation or a monthly donation though I. Don't have a way to send you the show notes if you sign up via paypal and I wanNA thank our newest mega supporters who donate fifty dollars a month we've mentioned that John Costa last week here's the details about him. He lives in Flint Michigan and is getting checked out in a Cessna one, eighty, two RG, which is one of four players available for rent at the Greater Flint Pilots Association. Also Rick Love He's a Knoxville Tennessee based CIRRUS SIP. He's formerly a factory flight instructor. He specializes in finish up courses for instrument and commercial ratings is also available for transition training and recurrent flights, ferry flights, and flying with people with their new airplane. To go home, he can be reached it. Rick loves the F. I N., G., mail, DOT, com, and finally vic badge is our latest mega supporter He is someone I. Have Flown with many times in the past and I'll tell you a little bit more about him next time. Thanks to all of our new patriots who signed up since the last new show those include your streep who edited his Pledge Up to twenty dollars. Robert Nelson edited his pledge to twenty. So both of them now get the video benefit and we have to ed, Kelly's these came in at about the same day as I was a little confused but Ed Kelly, number one is donating twenty dollars a month at Kelly number to edit his pledge up to eight dollars a month other new Patriot members include todd cuss soul. Tony Austin who edited pledge to Ten Dollars Dallas Marshall. Paul Martin who I've flown within the past Jesse Bunch who editors pledge up to thirty? Five. Dollars. Charlie Rothschild who I've known since my early days at HP Bill Berry who edit is pledged up to twelve dollars Mark Davies Martin Miller who ended his pledge up to ten dollars and Derek Hofmeister. We also have a couple of new monthly pay pal donors those include Peter Cunningham and Dirk concer, and we also have some one time donation through pay pal those include Lawrence Baltar at Maui flight. Academy thanks very much. James Heywood donate one hundred dollars. He's a sixty seven year old. Physician in San Diego who just fulfilled his lifelong dream of getting his pilot's certificate he says, your show was very helpful and I listened weekly. Thanks so much Patrick wiggins don't had fifty dollars John Cargo Fifty Dollars Torino pits, fifty dollars. I. Mentioned all of our mega donors who support fifty dollar level or more each month Brian deer who lives here in northern California and flies a turbo to six Tyson Weiss. Co. Founder and CEO of four flight, which is a popular ESPN APP. Bruce Dickerson. He's a financial planner living in Georgia and he flies a K thirty five bonanza. Victor Vogel who lives in Central Pa and flies a CIRRUS. Tim Delaney Wealth Manager in Santa Rosa California he flies SR twenty two out of the Santa Rosa. Airport Stephen e Lop Who flies a turbo one, eighty, two, and a citation cj three plus he's the CEO of API jet. Mike, Williams president of Keough Mac, and also TCP composites maker of composite spinners and bulkheads for g aircraft. Seth Lake, he specializes in teaching the multi engine rating, his beach travelers. He's also a DP giving check rides and you can find out more about him at vs L. Dot Aero he's based in Arkansas. Rick Miller trucks the Cincinnati area out of the London Flight Training Center. He also teaches people with their own airplanes. Piper's Cessnas Beechcraft and CICADAS would love to teach fulltime, but still has the job. Justin winter he brokers real estate on Lake Keough in South Carolina and flies SR twenty two. Carlin an Rossi of Maine coon cat. Brown odors, operators of three Cessna T to forties. Johnny mcdaid Singer Songwriter Musician, and record producer. Jim, gulf-us. He's teaching as a ground instructor as he works on his CFI at the Republic airport on Long Island, and you can contact him for online coaching. If you're an aspiring pilot through facebook page at ground point nine, just spill it out and then the number nine. Charlie Mason flies out of Santa Monica and he's been out of flying for a long time but is now getting checked out at the seers us are twenty. Vincent Sally Me, He's council member for the city of panel. He's also the owner of Sally me construction management in San Francisco. Jim Hummel Pisa. Teaches. At the Advantage Aviation Flight School in Palo Alto. Lars Lipton's. He's our youngest patron supporter. He flies a simulator. His Dad flies a Cessna two. Oh, five and dad also sells boats in the western states at boulder boats dot com. Joseph Sheehan flew in the navy for eight years. In fact, we've got one of his feedback comments here at the end of the show he's been flying for the past three years on this are twenty two and just took delivery vision. I Freeman working on his instrument rating. Dylan Caldwell new ame that's a medical examiner at Naples Municipal Airport in Florida. So if you need a basic mid second or third class physical, you can contact him at aviators clinic. Dot? com. Ted Pans Student Piloted Lives Fifteen minutes south of Philadelphia and Delaware where he can watch airliners fly the LS. And William Birch he donates to the show and the memory of his son Lieutenant. J. G Wallace Birch who was a navy pilot Don Hey Cala he's with professional instrument courses. They conduct ten-day instrument courses. I are finish up High Afar refresher courses you can find more at I fly I F R DOT com. Steven Busch. He's the owner of Lonestar, helicopters in Lago Vista Texas they do a lot of add on readings and everything related to helicopters just look them up at Lonestar Heli Dot Com. Dan Dilmun he's a professional pilot who runs an airline flight department. He's also CFI and flies a bonanza. Rick Madison owner of Point Wise. which makes CFD or computational fluid dynamics simulation software used by aerospace companies there at point. Wise. Dot Com. Kenny Wilson who developed a virus fighting ink pen at via far pen dot com, and sending me a few of those samples. And we previously mentioned John, toaster-oven Judge, 'em, Rick Love. I want to thank all of you for your generous contributions and thank everyone who supports the show in any way coming up next listener feedback and listener question on Ira far right here on the aviation newstalk podcast. Here's an email from Patriot. Bob Luton he says your interview with Catherine covering narrow in one fifty five was fantastic on the Youtube version at ten fifty, six Catherine briefly showed an image of to turn and slip indicators both depicting uncoordinated turns to the right in the left image a skid she shows the Red Arrow that the right wing drop in the right image. A slip she shows with another Red Arrow that the left wing will drop a captured handprint. An hand wrote some notes on this says as a CF I want to be prepared as to what's going to happen when a student is putting the aircraft in an uncoordinated flight. By takeaway per my notes is this which wing will drop the wing opposite the ball a Few days ago, I climbed to a safe altitude in my decathlon and prove the concept. Yes. Thanks so much Bob I think that captures it well, and this comes from mega supporter Joshi Han. He says, Max, thanks for the great work. You continue to produce the most recent episode hit home for me. That would be one, fifty, six I have a great friend who? Flew into the water when he and his co-pilot both afflicted with Vertigo. flew an H. forty-six into the Mediterranean Sea one night years ago also I have experience Vertigo while flying I would say by my co-pilot taking over from me also I've had to take over from my co-pilot when he had Vertigo Vertigo or the names of the same issues are real an incapacitating. The one that I don't understand. This report is why the non-flight pilot and this the captain did not take over controls is first officer was clearly succumbing to fear and inappropriately the captain needed to evaluate and react quickly to ensure flight safety as you talked to pilots. Especially, those training new pilots everyone must be committed to taking control of an airplane without regard to how the other pilot will react or feel in the culture of today where we worry how people will react to criticism. No one is better off by avoiding honest direct evaluation. It's tough love and aviation safety is improved by committing to honest critiques. I know. I am a better pilot because people have cared enough to get me tough direct feedback in a dual piloted aircraft or any aircraft with two pilots. Especially on approaches the pilot not on the control should be actively backing up and preparing to assume control no exceptions and your last episode there was twenty seconds to react. That would be enough of the backup pilot had been fully engaged in the h three flying off the carrier into blackness we were taught and learned the hard way that one pilot flew and the other was the emergency backup be prepared. Also for your listeners, this should be an item in their preflight briefing. Something like if you see me doing something wrong or inappropriate say I have the aircraft and take control all release the control without hesitation that brief saved many life and we'll save many more. And separately says I just crossed over one hundred hours in the visions yet. It's amazing. I love flying it I. Love how it handles how it lands and takes off the G. Three thousand is wonderful but flying the airplane just more fun than I ever imagined. Now thought this was interesting. He says, additionally, the type training Knoxville was close to flight training in the navy and its approach attention to detail and challenge felt completely prepared to fly the vision jet when I got into the left seat. Well, thanks so much Joseph here's the email from Kelley who writes I have entertained completing my cf double I and buying serious SR twenty with air conditioning here. In my state I belong to to flight clubs and I see a broad difference in flight instruction. I think my forty years of flying and coaching sports will translate into the cockpit. I have about sixty hours in my friends cirrus and find it a fine aircraft from any missions listening to your podcast. Love them and the interview with Mike Julian have inspired me to commit to a higher level flight proficiency in the need for professional flight instruction with a lot of flight instructors in the area that are just using instruction to build time Kelly. That's great. Thanks for sending that and yes, I always encourage anybody WHO's interested in teaching to get their cf fired. I. Now, let's go to listener questions is comes from Kelty in California. He says I was flying recently out, of Monterey and a King Air the field was due to the marine layer. The flying pilot asked for an eye afar released to via far with no flight plan I have never heard this before how does this work? Thanks? And let's see. I, replied to him that there were a couple of possibilities. But of course, I didn't know exactly what the King Air had requested number one and the one most likely is that he might have asked for a climb to on top. When I'm issued a clearance like this at Palo Alto the clear me to three thousand feet and tell me to advise one on top and canceling I F are and if not on top by three thousand to level off three thousand, the tower then calls nor cal approach for release nor cal proves it the tower clear for takeoff consistent mistakes. ICY pilots make is often advise ATC when they break out above the tops and then immediately cancel Afar but legally, they can't cancel Afar until they're at least a thousand feet above the clouds. Then there via far then they can continue on their way with or without flight following, depending upon what they requested. Number, two I said it might have been a tower in route in some areas of the country. You can skip filing all our flight plan until the tower that she wanted tower and route clearance to some nearby airport that's handled by the same approach facility as your airport. So he could have asked the tower tower clearance to any airport handled by nor cal. In number three, the least likely possibility is that he asked the tower to put enough full iof our flight plan to some destination for him most towers won't do that. So I really doubt that's what happened Kelsey. Thanks for that question, and I have one last request for everyone. That is please tell all of your friends at the aviation newstalk podcast, and if they don't know what a podcast is, send them out to the apple APP store or the Google play store out there that they can downloaded dedicated app for free if they just searching the store for aviation news talk. So until next time fly safely half finally keep the blue side up.

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195 Make Better, Safer Landings Using Data with Dierk Reuter + GA News

Aviation News Talk podcast

1:08:26 hr | 5 d ago

195 Make Better, Safer Landings Using Data with Dierk Reuter + GA News

"L. again and welcomed aviation news talk. We talk generally -ation with news and flying tips for pilots and student pilots. To help keep you safe. I'm extra scott. Today we have all kinds of stories including a dog story in which one of our listeners play the key role. He's just gotta love the stories so stick around later. We'll talk with derek writer about the program. He's rolled out that collects data on each landing so that pilots can get better at flying stabilized approaches to reduce prop strikes for one high-performance aircraft type. And as you listened to dear hope you'll think about ways that you can apply some of his techniques to you're flying last week in episode ninety four. We talked about my friend. Launchpad mars zuri who died in july fourth plane crash. So if you didn't hear that episode you may want to check it out and if you haven't done so already please. Click on either the subscribe or the follow button and whatever app that you're listening to me now and if you find value from the show. Please consider supporting financially. Just go out to aviation news talk dot com slash. Awesome where you can sign up to support us via patriot using your credit card or you can go out to aviation news talk dot com slash pay pal. If you wanna make one time contribution. Thanks so much this week in the news. A pilot tries to still jet at denver centennial airport. And there's a new bolt on autopilot for older cessna. One seventy twos in a man has been fined a quarter of a million dollars for falsifying his pilot credentials. All this and more and the news starts now from ab web dot com adventure pilot proficiency center to offer remote sessions the pilot proficiency center will be offering remote simulation exercises and scenarios for people who are unable to attend adventure twenty twenty one as with onsite instruction remote training provided by cfi's who are members of either the national association of flight instructors. That's nafee or the society of aviation and flight educators safe. According to radic wakowski a manager of flight proficiency quote. We'll be providing the same quality simulation mission exercises and scenarios featured at oshkosh. But in your home or at the select flight training center near you. We'll connect you with experienced. Instructors who trained with proven simulator missions and state of the art remote training tools adventure twenty twenty one of course takes place. July twenty sixth through august. I in oshkosh wisconsin pilots interested in participating in the pilot proficiency center remote similar sessions will need to have access to a home based redbird td simulator zoom or go to one of fourteen participating like training centers across the us and will include links and the show notes on how you can sign up from nine. News dot com. That's tv station in denver. Mantras to steal jet to go to hawaii. According to the sheriff's office man was arrested last week. For attempting to steal a jet at centennial airport claiming he was trying to fly to. Why about one. Fifteen pm on wednesday sterling. Love age thirty jump. The south fence at centennial airport and walked onto the taxi wait near runway. Three five right and gulfstream g six. The jet was stopped and love walked up on the steps of the plane to attempt aboard the crew did not let him on. They notify the arapahoe county. Sheriff's office which determined the situation was in dc esso's jurisdiction level was turned over to dc. So that's the douglas. County sheriff's office and deputies arrested him. Love was booked on suspicion of first degree. Aggravated motor vehicle theft. Dcss said it was not filing charges until july twentieth and that love is in jail in lieu of at ten thousand dollars bail. Dcss said it was unclear whether he was trying to catch a free ride. We're fly the aircraft himself from plane pilot magazine dot com a bolton yoked mounted autopilot for your skyhawk puerto pilot as announce the availability of its user on autopilot and bolt right off again. That's compatible with many cessna. One seventy twos the early adopter price for the rigors around two thousand dollars. The unit is available in both one axis which would be role and to access roll and pitch versions and it can be hooked up to your. Gps panel mount or portable as well so for a few thousand dollars you can put an autopilot your plane and pull it out again and use it in a different plane. The video makes it look quick and easy. What's the legality of it with most things like this. The faa takes a hands off approach such as attaching portable devices to the panel or other tubes or structures but. Is this going too far. Attaching device to the very control column of your plane and regardless of legality. How safe is such a device is it requires no s. t. c. The faa won't be weighing in on this one so you'll have to take the manufacturers word for either that or figured out on your own anyway. Sounds fascinating concept one. I would never have thought of at there is a video will include a link to it shows the autopilot being bolted onto the column. That connects the okay to the To the aircraft and also from planning pilot mag dot com. Faa says volunteer. Instructors are being compensated now. This is a follow up on the interview we did with. Alpa lawyers episode one eighty nine when we've talked about the warbirds adventure case and the story says facing outrage industry-wide the agency makes a startling claim that the act of volunteering is by definition commercial work. Well it's kind of hard to believe but rarely that's what they've determined need to get a biennial flight review in your harvey seven from your buddy. Who's a cfi. Good luck even if your friend were to provide the instruction for free. They couldn't do it without first. Getting a letter of deviation authority or lotta from the faa without which the flight pedro unpaid would be in violation of the far's at least that's the faa's current take on flight training in certain categories of aircraft facing the ire of member organizations industry-wide. The faa is defending. Its about face on. Its interpretation of flight instruction unlimited primary and experimental category aircraft. They've declared that. Instructors who volunteered offer instruction in these aircraft are by definition earning compensation knowing that the opinion flips the meaning of volunteer on its head. The agency says that volunteer instructors are being compensated by expected work or payments in other forms or and this is the kicker by the goodwill they will build with the people instructing for free news of faa's semantic contortion was shared by ao pa which had vehemently protested the agency's flipflop on the nature of cfi's roles in providing training these aircraft this follow ruling earlier this year by a federal judge that instructors were offering commercial services in the airplane in essence acting as the operator of an aircraft that the faa has for many decades viewed as being operated by the owner or controlling entity the aircraft further adding to the overreaches. The faa's claim that compensation occurs even when a third party benefits in an article detailing the continued revelation of the faa's about-face on training. A opa's general counsel justin harrison wrote last week faa prosecutors quoted an advisory circular a sixty one dash one forty two to finding compensation as the receipt of anything of value that is contingent on the pilot operating the aircraft. It does not require a prophet profit motive or actual payment of funds accumulation of flight time and goodwill in the form of future economic benefits can be considered compensation. Furthermore the pilot does not have to be the party. Receiving the compensation compensation occurs even if a third party receives a benefit as a result of the flight. Alpa president mark baker gave him context to the situation saying quote. The faa can't have both ways while climbing clarifying the situation this is contrary to the faa's mission and obligation to promote safe light and the article concludes. We'll keep you apprised. But in the meantime be aware that alpa is warning its members at the f. a. a. is actively prosecuting instructors who seem to be circumventing the requirement for them to get a lotta by offering instruction for free unless the rule is overturned or the faa changes. Its tune offering training without a loaded. Even if it's free is illegally risky tactic from abc dot com lack of paperwork behind most kobe medical denials the faa's federal air surgeon says pilots. Who have had code. Nineteen half to come clean with their. Ame's or risk losing their medicals. Dr suess north approach in a safety bulletin. Ame's have told us to use their own judgment in determining the fitness to fly for those who've recovered from the disease that means pilots have to be ready to furnish the medical records. That will support that decision quote unfortunately while the vast majority of airman can be issued a certificate by their ami right away. We have denied a medical certificate for a small number of airmen after kobe. Infection northrop wrote. She said most of those were the result of pilots refusing to provide the documentation those who became infected and got through the illness without complications. What most likely get their medicals approve routinely but ama's have been told to be on the lookout for those who develop issues weeks months after their kobe. nineteen diagnosis. Because the symptoms can be disqualifying quote manifestations include dysfunction of the cardiovascular respiratory renal or neurological systems. north of. You should report mental health symptoms such as brain fog depression anxiety or other symptoms such as fatigue shortness of breath cough chest pain headaches. Fever loss of smell or taste dizziness. When standing joint or muscle pains or chest pain to your ame from web dot com. Richard branson reaches two hundred eighty two thousand feet in the first full passenger virgin galactic flight. While i'm not going to go into this in detail because undoubtedly heard about this. But i have a related story. But if you haven't heard about it there will undoubtedly be some debate over whether branson actually reached space spacecraft reached an apogee of fifty three point seven miles technically more than eight miles short of the so called karman line of sixty two miles at his. The internationally recognized point where space begins however the us defines the edge of space is fifty miles or two hundred sixty two thousand feet and in a related story also from at web dot com. The faa launches a system to cut space launch airspace disruptions. The faa has activated a new tool to minimize disruption of atmospheric flying machines. I guess that means airplanes. When those headed for space or passing through the space data integrator tracks all spacecraft going up and coming down and transmits the location of those vehicles directly to the air traffic control system quote. This new capability increases safety for all airspace users and assists the faa inefficiently managing air traffic during space operations. The faa said in a statement. This vastly improves. The faa situational awareness of where the vehicle is as it travels space as it returns to the earth. The system was. I used to manage the airspace. When space transporter two rocket launch from cape canaveral on june thirtieth the rocket was actually supposed to launch the day before but an errand pilot flew aircraft into the vast exclusion zone established for the launch which are frustrated elon musk called unreasonably. Gigantic in the launch was scrubbed. It's not clear if the new system would have prevented the scrub but f. a. a. Administrator steve dixon so the idea is to make the space industry integrate with the rest of aviation with less disruption to both quote. This is a critical tool as that number of users of are already busy. Airspace increases at dixon with capability. We'll be able to safely reopen the airspace more quickly and reduce the number of aircraft and others space users affected by a launch or reentry from nbc news dot com alaskan team passenger causes plane to nosedive after taking over controls pasture on the small plane bound for a tiny western alaska community. Said he tried to end his life when he took control of the planes go can cost it to nosedive before the pilot was able to regain control and safely land. The aircraft alaska state trooper said the incident occurred on a flight between bethel and antioch which is about ninety miles northeast of bethel tripper set a preliminary investigation indicated that an eighteen year old passenger got up from his seat and took control of the yolk before the pilot was able to regain control the plane with help from passengers. The ban told tripper. Jason bull hack. He tried to his life. While on the plane and indicated he had spoken with behavioral health officials before but felt. It hadn't helped according to an affidavit by balk that accompanied assault and attempted assault charges. The cessna caravan had six people on board with all five passenger seats. Occupied said austin mcdaniels trooper spokesperson. The plane landed safely in antioch. In the eighteen year old was arrested. Trooper said mcdaniel said by email. The man had quote asked the pilot to fly the plane earlier during the flight and initially asked to sit in the unoccupied copilot's seat both requests were denied by the pilot mcdaniel said the aircraft had no barriers between the rest of the aircraft in the pilot and co-pilot seats barriers are not typical this type of aircraft in alaska or anywhere else for that matter. The plane was in the process of landing when the incident occurred about five miles from the airport. Mcdaniel said a spokesperson for the us. Attorney's office in alaska said any federal charges would be determined by the outcome of the investigation. The faa statements that it was aware of the incident and investigating. According to the affidavit the pilot who was identified joshua kirsch said about ten miles from the destination. The man asked if he could fly the plane and curse refused about five miles later. Kerr said he felt the go forward. And saw the man over the copilot's seat pushing on the yolk. He said he thought the man was trying to point the plane toward the ground. Kerr said he was scared and concern for others on board but said his biggest concern was trying to maintain control of the plane. Several passengers who spoke to hawk said they feared for their lives. One passenger identified as alice samuelson till ball hawk. The man seemed to have anxiety before boarding the plane during the incident. She said a woman grabbed the man after the pilot pushed him away from the controls and that passengers held him down another passenger described. The man is being held in his seat while the pilot landed the plane. Lee ryan president ryanair. The company that operated the flight so the passenger quote was in the second row of seats and just kind of reached over. The copilot's seat in briefly grabbed control. The aircraft the pilot move the passenger back and retook control. The plane ryan said other passengers. I'd say restrain the unruly passenger. But he wasn't necessarily trying to do anything at that point. Why and said the pilot handle the matter very professionally quote. We have different types of training and security training in different procedures and he said he just moved him back in and landed without further incident. Got on the radio and let our coupling know what was going on. he said. Safety air carriers highest priority and. He was glad this ended without further incident from generally news dot com. This comes from an ntsb. Final report pilot injured after plane hits a tree. One way lights turn off. The pilot reported that while on base like for his third nighttime landing at the airport and lompoc california that runway lights turned off despite his failed attempts to turn on the runway lights he completed his base turned to final. Turn about two hundred feet. Ag l. by the way that's pretty low for most aircraft for the final with runway lights not eliminated. He decided to use the blue taxiway lights. Parallel runway his reference to land while on final approach. The glass star hit a tree that hit the ground. Inverted the airplanes sustained substantial damage to the fuselage. And the left wing. The pilot sustained minor injuries. Pilot reported that there were no mechanical malfunctions were failures to the engine or airframe. That would have precluded. normal operation. Pilot did not submit the esp pilot. Operate aircraft accident incident report form. Sixty one twenty probable cause the pilot's failure to maintain a proper glide path during landing which resulted in impact with a tree. And i'm guessing they have pilot controlled lighting. There of course typically pushed the mic button. Five times in that it will turn on the light but i have seen times where that doesn't work reliably every time so certainly anytime. You're flying into an airport at night. That has pilot controlled lighting. When you're on down when you push the button five times again just a reset the timer. So there's no chance of the lights going out when you're on short final also from generally aviation news dot com and other. Ntsb report pilot stalls while practicing candy. Drop the pilot performed practice. Candy drop over a field near montville maine about three hundred feet above the ground. During the climbing. Thirty degree banked right. Turn to circle back to the field. He quote neglected the airspeed and a cessna. One seventy two aerodynamically stalled as it descended. It struck trees and hit the ground inverted. The plane sustained substantial damage to the left way and empathize. The pilot reported that there were no pre-accident mechanical failures or malfunctions. With the airplane. That would have precluded normal operation probable cause the pilot's failure to maintain the proper airspeed and is exceeding said the airplanes critical angle of attack during a low altitude climbing turn which resulted in an aerodynamic stall and from web dot com air cocaine pilots acquitted on appeal and french court case. A court in exile provence. Which is down near. The mediterranean and southern france acquitted two pilots of so falcon fifty on appeal last week. The pilots identified as pascal foray and bruno otas faced drug smuggling charges and ultimately six years of prison in france after their march. Twenty thirteen arrest in the dominican republic authorities their search the falcon trijet just before a plan. Take off for france and found fifteen hundred pounds of cocaine. The drugs were concealed at approximately twenty suitcases belonging to the jets passenger. It was also arrested face charges after the pilots arrest on the ramp dominican tribunal in august. Two thousand fifteen handed down at twenty or prison sentence for their quote connection to commit international drug-smuggling. The pilots fled the dominican republic to the french territory of saint martin after which the french court of exile provence launched its own case into what was popularly dubbed air cocaine in april twenty nine. The french court also found the pilot's guilty following a lengthy appeals court. Last week confirmed the sentences for other defendants in the case but acquitted. The pilots foray notice. According to a report in the french newspaper le monde. A convicted intermediary in the drug deal told the judge that the pilots were innocent victims of deceit. All which is to say that as pilots. You need to really be careful about what goes onto the airplane. You're flying in finally from flyer dot co dot. Uk story from england pilot. Find one hundred and seventy five pounds. Which by the way is around two hundred fifty thousand dollars for falsifying license. A suspect pilot has been fined. One hundred seventy five thousand pounds for falsifying license entries in acting as a pilot without an appropriate license. David har bottle of lancing west. Sussex was convicted of two charges of knowingly making false entries to his pilot's license in one charge of acting as a pilot without an appropriate license seven flights following a trial at brighton magistrates court. Mr kharbatha was fined. Fifty thousand pounds for each of the false entries and a further seventy five thousand pounds for acting as a pilot without an appropriate license. It was also ordered to pay costs to the ca a sixteen thousand pounds of pay one hundred and twenty pounds victim charge the fines and charges total over one hundred ninety one thousand pounds spokesperson for the cia said the c as prosecution the subsequent convictions and substantial finds. Show that the cia. The court treat offending of this kind with the utmost severity. Mr bottle previously had certificates of revalidation for his multi engine piston and instrument rating for his pilot license which expired in two thousand fourteen. He later ford's certificates of revalidation for an emmy p. and i are rating. You're required for the seven flights undertook and then backdated them to twenty sixteen. Well that's the news for this week coming up next updates including some listeners stories and then we'll talk with deer kreutzer all right here on the aviation news. Talk podcast updates now. You tweak is search through easily four to five hundred stories online looking for the nine or ten that make it here into aviation news. Talk and this week. I happen to run across one about one of our patriot. Supporters jeremy wade. It's just a very moving story. And i wanted to share with you. This comes from arkansas. Online dot com. Which shows you how far and wide i go to search restores. And it's long so i'm not going to read the entire thing. But of course lincoln. The show notes starts out on april ninth twenty eleven so ten years ago a miniature schnauzer named razzle wanted into the arkansas wilderness for an adventure only known to him until this past spring ten years later when he was picked up by an animal control officer in california trailer park the next days were a whirlwind journey worthy of a traveler such as a sixteen year old razzle raza was six months old in the last of the litter when aaron howard is wife rhonda in two and a half year old son. Simon took them to their mcrae home. Razzle in the family were inseparable traveled on vacation. He visited with extended family members. He was such a part of the extended family that when howard's sister-in-law took her two dogs to get microchip. She took razzle to on that april ninth day in two thousand eleven razzle was let out to the families rural property as the often was but this time he didn't return we've looked for him for months. Our said we posted posters. Rhonda went on facebook on april eighteenth. Twenty seven and posted a picture asking for help in finding the dog. The social media site was in its early years and lack strong neighborhood or city grips. The family thought. Maybe the microchip would return them to them as the years. Stick by we gave up. Hope howard said. We thought he died alone. The voicemail was left in howard's sister-in-law's phone by the san joaquin county sheriff's office. Deputy had seen razzle wandering called animal control. Razzle was checked for chip in the call went out. Howard said they asked if she could come get him. Howard said she was like i'd like to but he was lost ten years ago in arkansas sheriff's office posted on facebook about razzle the following day stories. This don't happen every day but they sure. Pull it our heartstrings. The post says we wish razzle the very best. The end of the story still wasn't known for razzle as an aging dog who is living as a stray it was unknown. Raza would survive. Newton owner of our s q two. Oh nine. Animal rescue in california. Saw the sheriff's office posted knew that she had to help a dog. That age should not be sitting in a shelter. Newton said he crashed a couple of times at the shelter. he was dehydrated and he wasn't eating well through connections with a transport. Group already organizing the trip to arkansas. Newton was able to get approval to foster razzle. Then jeremy wade. The california resident in native to hebrew springs. Arkansas was contacted. Wade has worked with rescue groups to transport dogs up and down the california coast for years. Someone remembered his. Arkansas connection wade already had a trip to visit family and friends scheduled for july fourth weekend. He was willing to help. But nervous about transporting the aging dog quote since my in pressurized in the sierras are in the way i fashioned. An oxygen masks to us for him if needed wait said typically. When i cross over the sierras i breath the supplemental oxygen for the time spent above twelve thousand five hundred feet way typically fly through the sierras at seventeen thousand feet but found an alternative route at eleven thousand five hundred feet just for razzle. He said flying so low through the mountain range was the first for him. The trip from california to santa fe was about five and a half hours. There was a stop for fuel in the next five and a half hours to get razzle homed. Arkansas lending the two thousand seven cessna terrible one eighty two t on tuesday at the important heber springs. Where wade. I sat in a plane as a child was a mixture of emotions. He said took a moment to wake arousal up. The blind dog prone to confusion needed to be awaken. Jelly wade said then. Wade turn to the howard family and the dog. They'd never forgotten. No one knew if the dog would remember his first family or if he had the capability to think clearly at this point in life. The dog doesn't tend to like to be held. Wade said he certainly isn't comfortable being touched. Because of the time he spent in a straight situation he was so peaceful and serene. I had never seen him comfortable in anyone's arms. You got totally relaxed as if he recognized. Some of the smells with a horse returned home to the same home. Razzle disappeared from there wasn't the searching that newton experienced family. Let him out into the yard directly out of the car. Howard said he doesn't hear or see very well. Howard said we were like. Does he know where he is. The blind dog pace briefly then by smell alone he turned around walked up the stairs into the front door where he waited for his family. Arousal spent that night's sleep in the arms of rhonda as he spent the night since he probably won't live much longer. But i'm glad he was able to make it to his final destination. I wade said and as for whereas was for the past ten years well only arousal knows great story on include a link to the full story as well as to a video that jeremy shot and i must say i'm fascinated by the cameras. He had one which had kind of a panoramic view of the inside of the airplane sought to follow up with him to find out more. About how shot that. So kudos to jeremy for doing this great d. I opened inspires you to do something with your piloting skills to help others. Here's a funny voice mail. I got last month from my friend. Robert dealer and test the pilot. You may recall. We had him on in episode one. Nineteen when he talked about what was then his upcoming polar circumnavigation which he's now completed and about his previous around the world trip in his plane. He calls citizen of the world which is highly modified. Nineteen eighty-three gulfstream turban. Commander nine hundred. Now here's voicemail. Which i'm including the show with roberts permission and robert. I decided the most interesting experience. I was at Miracle and pilot supply looked out. Of course all my buddies books on the wall. And i thought to myself well the guy wrote the both and then about thirty to sixty seconds later i could hear something coming from my pocket and your podcast was on and i didn't you know search for it or anything just came on and i know these iphones pretty slick and i see an ad when i talk to somebody about a topic like a day later but Wow max is really got that the witchcraft thing down into to salesman anyway. Hope you're doing well. This one was thinking about you I'm moving up to the epa civic north west on monday probably about four or five months. Spike gave me to lasca canada idaho and Certainly my claim training on the twenty eighth so good things are happening out for you as well. And what for chatting right bye-bye remember thanks for that fund message in for ligne shirt with everyone here. Now let me tell you a little bit about what i've been up to. Recently i the fun part. In the past month. I've flown nine full days in the sears vision chat with two local clients one who is a low time vision jet pilot and the other who i was helping to prep for his type rating training earlier. Today i heard from him that he passed his typewriting check. Ride for the vision jet. So congratulations donald also. I'll be flying to denver on friday. April twenty-seventh teach at a c. Triple p. which is the co pilot proficiency program. That's a weekend long training program for sears. Pilots see triple p. Will be held at the centennial airport south of denver. And since i will be an allure earlier. I thought i'd hold a listener for anyone who liked to come out and chat with me for awhile. Typically i hold these outdoors at a starbucks. And i'm thinking we'll start around four thirty pm and finish up a little before six pm. When i need to get back to the hotel for the start of the triple pay. So i'll pick a starbucks soon and let you know which one will be at in the meantime. If you think you might be able to join me please send me an email at aviation news. Talk at gmail.com and now for the sad part. Most of you know that. I lost my good friend. Brad mazari on july fourth sadly just nine days a colleague and see if i of mine died in a plane crash in monterey california mary ellen carlin was a flight instructor at the flying club where i do most of my teaching renter pilots. She was seventy four. The one time i flew with her was when she gave me my endorsement for high altitude operation than a pressurized plane. That training was done in her cessna. Four twenty one c golden eagle which is a twin engine aircraft. Unfortunately it was the accident aircraft. I listened to the atc tapes and live atc dot com. Mary ellen had an i. R. clearance to on top which is a typical clearance for airports. Near the pacific ocean that often have a thin overcast of stratus clouds in the morning or sometimes early evening called the marine layer often. It's only a thousand feet thicker less. This layer was probably a little thicker than that as the tops reported. Two thousand feet. Her clarence was to fly the monterey five departure and then fly radar vectors to the salinas via war with a climb to five thousand feet. She was to report when she was on top the clouds and when she was canceling iof afar now. The monetary five departure is fairly simple after taking off from runway. Ten right she was to turn left to a heading of three to nine. Her flight lasted for just a little over a minute. But after takeoff instead of turning left shinhan up in a fairly tight turn to the right and while the climate initially looked normal the last data point showed her descending at nearly two thousand feet per minute at over two hundred miles per hour. The plane crashed into a house which was fortunately unoccupied. She also had a friend on board and the friends dog and of course was such a rapid descent. There were no survivors. One other odd fact is one of the engines was not in the house but ended up in a nearby field. It seems unlikely that it fell off the aircraft. So i'm guessing after hitting the house. It became detached and ended up in the field. There's really nothing at all. Obvious to me is how this crash might have occurred though. I think it's likely it was either some kind of mechanical failure or instrument failure. I will say that. I felt a little numb for a few days. I was just starting to get over. The loss of brad massari the week before only to have another friend die nine days later. I don't really know what to say other than please. Fly carefully captain. Ag lamb pu British pilot from the early days of aviation once famously said aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous but to an even greater degree than the sea. It has terribly unforgiving of any carelessness. Incapacity or neglect. And we see evidence of every week. So please do everything you possibly can to avoid becoming yet another aviation statistic flying certainly a lot of fun. I love it. i know you do too. But it's not worth dying over so please take your flying very seriously and do it very well every time you fly because the alternative is unthinkable and related to that coming up next our conversation with dirk reuter in the program. He's ruled out that collects data on each landing so that pilots can get better at flying. Stabilized approaches. Right here on the aviation is talked against. Now let me tell you a little bit about dirk quarter dear co-founded london-based lucid markets. One of the pioneers of electronic market making in the global cash and futures market he has a phd in aerospace engineering from the georgia institute of technology and he owns a dr t. Tb m. nine thirty in a friend. Set a record for fly that airplane from new york to paris in just eight hours and thirty five minutes while we'll be talking