20 Episode results for "Richard. It"

Agent Evaluation: Rich Paul/Klutch Sports; Daily COVID19 Roundup w/ Ben Taylor

Dunc'd On Basketball Podcast

1:20:27 hr | 7 months ago

Agent Evaluation: Rich Paul/Klutch Sports; Daily COVID19 Roundup w/ Ben Taylor

"So this is the beginning of a project that we've been working on for a long time. Thanks to our director of basketball research and dull for helping to put together some of these numbers. What we're GONNA do is we're going to start doing reports on agents and ANC the best way to do that is to try to be as objective about it as possible now. Of course there's going to be subjectivity. That because you're whatever you're going to say oh this is a good contract. This is a bad contract. This agent did well this agent. Didn't you have to subjectively think of what? The market was the time whether those above or below expectations. Whether you got the player into a situation that was going to help them or not I mean all of that is very nebulous and so we're trying to make it as objective as we can by going through what the contracts are but clearly. There's going to be some opinion there but I think that Danny and I focus on this as much as anyone and if there is anyone qualified to do this we're going to try to stay away. Mostly from conjecture and bad mouth thing and just focus on the actual performance on things that are public for these agents. So what do you think here is? Is this possible earlier. We biting off more than we could chew or is this a realistic goal. I think it's a realistic aspiration. They're always going to be challenges. But the I think the idea behind this sound and an an important piece of context here and this is something we talk about a fair amount on the general manager sighed often to counterparts to agents is the duality where they D- agent does not have final. Say on whether or not to approve a specific contract but they do have influential power. So we've talked about how seeing prestige does a really good job convincing ownership of things and there are other GM's they can't get their underdo things agents or the same. Sometimes players make mistakes turning down lucrative offers sometimes they all those sorts of things and so I think we'll try to provide that context when applicable but again that is a part of the agents job is telling the hey this is a really good deal. Don't turn this down and they're not solely responsible but it's a part of their job. Yeah that's a great point there because you don't know what the internal dynamics are for team you don't know what it is in the agent side either did player turning it down because the told him to or is he doing it because someone else told to or because he has his own opinion that that's not what he wants to. You'd never know that. So basically we have a pretty good example of that in this in this podcast. Yes yeah we do and so now there are definitely people out there who are more informed as to that stuff. They're definitely people out there who are more informed as to Ohi. Maybe this at the other offers that this player had that kind of thing. Unfortunately there's a reason nobody else has tried this project before. And that is that most people. Frankly need agents Most reporters most people on teams You be hard pressed to find what else who even is willing to do this right now because nobody wants to upset agent somebody is going to have to be last in this when we finally go through and rank all these agents after doing these individual reports and so i. It's hard to do that obviously than with players and with teens but they are an important part of this and so kind of the criteria that I'm looking at here is if I had a close friend or a family member who was looking for. Nba Representation. How would I feel about having them? Go with this agent in particular. That's the overall approach that I am looking at this. Well and one other clarification. We're focusing on how that agent negotiates MBA contracts. There are a lot of other parts to being an HBO. Yeah that are that are not a part of this but considering that information is not public. It would be really hard to do that. Well and I mean that's that's another thing too. I mean for example like Draymond Green. I didn't think that Wasserman did a great job. Negotiating his five year. Deal with the warriors in twenty fifteen. I thought he he probably should be able to get the Max there and he did and so they didn't do that. Great of a job with that but if they're involved in his off court marketing which probably made up for whatever the shortfall was the warriors and then some they did an amazing jolly draymond green had much more profile than many other players who are equally as good as him in terms of getting commercials and endorsements and that kind of stuff so that part of it were not considering this is solely based on you are doing as far as NBA contracts trades strictly focusing on basketball here. So yeah that that is a very important distinction as well. Another important distinction. This isn't business school. This isn't an average. Gpa of three point three it same as we do with our offseason grades a C is not an insult. A see as you did about what was expected to be done and for a lot of players. You know. There's a MAC salary. There's a rookie scale. It's tough to do much better than average when the contracts are pretty much prescribed for you and so a C. average is like totally fine. That shouldn't be taken as insult. Many people will because you went to a school where the students were considered to be below average. But that's how we're doing that we're trying to do this with a normal distribution of contracts from. Yeah and there's another reason why you do that and this is I went to law school. Where a lot of times you don't do that is because that creates availability for for differentiation. If F every house the be range then. There isn't a lot to do it. But if you if you're running all the way from seat a in all the way down from C to f then you can do gradations a lot better. And that's part of the reason why we do it for off-season grades and everything else because if everybody's in a or B that you're not getting a you the listeners. Not Getting as much out of the only other issue that we have with this data set is sometimes. It is hard to put together. It's very easy to see who is with what agent. Now it is harder to see to find when players joined the agencies on times but even harder is players who have left the agency in gone somewhere else. I mean. This is a massive project where we're going to be. We've got hundreds of data points and so it is. It was a little bit cost prohibited to good through. Like if we're doing rich Paul. For example ever knows the Morris twins having left him but others. It's a it's a little bit harder to find that information so as we go through. We will try to do that. I think I have a pretty good handle and please if we missed one so let us know. I have a pretty good handle on when all of the players joined rich. Paul and Club Sports. So I'm not going to give him credit for contracts that were negotiated before then but as far as players who left there that he negotiated their countries. There aren't that many of those that I could find that were were big contracts so considering he as of now has twenty four players in the NBA. That's not going to really affect things. Too much is my hope. So that's what we're dealing with here. We're GONNA we got plenty of time now to go through and we're GonNa try and do you know at least ten or so of the major agents in agencies and as always when we start a new project feedback really appreciate it. Let us know if you think that this should be truncated. If it's not interesting just get straight to the rankings. Don't do each individual agent ways to make this clearer more interesting any more fair. Any of that We would definitely appreciate that feedback. We're trying to do the best job we can. With the information that's available but Any further information obviously is much appreciated. Okay quick break here and then we'll get to talking about some of how rich Paul has done for some of these individual clients so today's show is sponsored by the athletic. That's where Danny Rights. That's where my other podcast partner. John Hollinger writes. The athletic is a subscription based sports news site for real fans and while sports may be benched. The athletic is still coming out with incredible sports stories. They've done an awesome job covering NFL. Free Agency. Whose guys like Jake. Glaser Mike. Sando Michael Lombardi. They've got local writers on every team and as you know national writers as wall. This is a a time when it'll be possible to get to know athletes and teams even better than you already do. So whether it's exclusive player profiles deep data analytics or live. Qna's with the writers go to the athletic dot com slash cafes and right now. They're offering a risk free at ninety day. Trial Pretty awesome deal. Really no reason not to sign up for this a at this point if you haven't tried the athletic at the athletic dot com slash cat. So it's easy to remember slush cows as because we talk about all the time on the program and give the extraordinary circumstances. They are now offering risk free ninety day trial. Don't get that /capspace your. I'll let them know that you came from us all right. I think it's fair. Let's go in alphabetical order here and there's also what I'm going to try to do is just give equal weight to all of these players now. Maybe if it's just. He's only negotiated one rookie scale contract for player. Me That deserves less weight than players that use negotiating second contracts for Because that's just it's not as difficult but you've got guys all up and down the spectrum and yeah you know it's great if he can negotiate a Max contract for some guys but we're trying to have this be almost a guide in some ways of who who would you wanna be going with and so it's not just the Max guys who matter in that. So how he does for continuous call will. Pope is just important as how he does for Lebron James. Let's start with dearest Bosley a rookie scale contract signed in two thousand nineteen. I thought that Paul. This is a little bit out of the criteria. We're talking about but did a good job of him paid for year while he skipped college that turn out to look like a pretty good decision and then to get him drafted twenty-third when he didn't play college basketball. I thought that was a pretty good performance. I gave an a minus for what he's done for badly so far. Yeah I think getting a guy getting a guy drafted in the unusual situation with Bazeley being new balance in turn. You know all that kind of stuff. I thought the putted well by him to me. Beasley is an interesting one. And this is a pattern. We've seen a couple of times with Paul. He joined rich. Paul in September of two thousand nineteen reports indicated that he had turned down a three year thirty million dollar extension before joining. Paul a lot of times when that happens I mean. There's no tampering rules when it comes to agents but I think it's a reasonable inference that if a player turns down a contract and then immediately joins another agent that that agent was probably encouraging him to turn down that contract even though he wasn't technically with them yet so I thought those a bad decision at the time to turn that down with the trade to Minnesota Beasley had a few games but was starting to look like he might beat that now. Of course you've got risk there as well and if let's say Beasley had just been stuck with Denver all year and Never. I mean he had a bad year with Denver if he just doesn't get traded and yet was not that was not a Paul engineer trade he wasn't the centerpiece of that or anything he was. It was included important. But the different type of thing. Yeah I mean maybe there's some stuff behind the scenes where Paul made it clear. He wasn't going to resign with GonNa make things difficult to me. They're more likely to want to move in. But that trade is Kinda saved that decision in some respects that. I didn't think that that was a great job. But now the trade. He may actually end up doing better than that. I'm not sure that that you know that could be outcome based decision making. I think he'll do better than three million dollars. In guaranteed guaranteed this off season but it tough to say that for sure and you could have had that for sure back then so I would say ultimately I would go with a C. minus for that could end up working out but I don't really like the process there. There's a lot of risk involved in a player who's not a clear starter for a team and I mean Denver. Denver could member what they wielded was match rights and so in a year that not many teams are going to have cap space so that could have gone really sour for Beasley. He has gotten paid yet. So I I agree with you. I might have even gone a little lower. Yeah well I guess the other thing too is. You don't know like maybe the players like Hey. I don't care about the money I wanna go somewhere where I can be a starter. He's got will Barton in Gary Harris in front of him in Denver. So maybe that was part of it too is just not wanting to be there anymore. That that's I don't know but yeah I I'm a speed the fact that he could actually work out A. I'm being a little more charitable. They're speaking of not wanting to be there anymore. Let's talk about what's up. 'cause he tweeted that Bledsoe is an interesting one. Let's go back. We can start in chronological order. You'll recall the summer of twenty fourteen. He was in the restricted. Free Agency. Dance WITH PHOENIX. He'd been traded. There is a longtime clutch client Plans had been traded there. The previous summer had a really Nice Europe but also suffered a knee injury and miss time but Phoenix had a really nice season. It seemed like at the time that they were really on the come there. They're going to be moving into at least a period of time a playoff contention. That obviously didn't end up happening and ultimately he ended up signing a five-year seventy million dollar deal though. Max was five for eighty that year but the key element that I think got Phoenix to sign. This was the news of the TV deal came out that September and so he then ended up signing it but it looked like he probably I would say was a little bit underpaid for what the thought of what he was going to. I mean I think people were thinking is GonNa be Kinda close to all star player Throughout his time in Phoenix and was still improving that sense. I thought the five for seventy while taking the qualifying offer would have been bad. And I'm sure Phoenix Move. Their offer up part of the reason they did that is because they knew the salary cap was. GonNa be exploding and so ultimately I think to be in the restricted free agent process. Get a five year seventy million dollar deal in certainly Lebron. James was toasting with him on social media. At the time that it was a really good deal. I don't think it was. I think it was pretty much pretty average. As of that time they had to fight to get it. So maybe a C plus on that particular deal with. What are your thoughts on that? That's a tough one degree because of all those factors that I was that I just alluded to. I think that's about right. One of the interesting questions with that. Contract is whether buds would have rather become a free agent earlier you know with the especially once the TV deal exploded. Take it still a lot of money if it would have been four years at the same annual rate. Maybe the sons weren't willing to do that. But that is a lot of money secured and all that and there was blood says first big contract so yeah. I think in in the in the C. Plus B. Minus Rangers. Where would have been then? He recently signed a four year. Seventy million dollars the timing on this recently I think is important. News before the twenty thousand nine playoffs. Yes yeah so I. I gave that one a beat. I thought the solid value. Now it's not fully guaranteed Let Me Dolecek. And how much of that is guaranteed thanked the last year's mostly non-guaranteed but but the piece of context that I think is important. There is why I said it was because Biz was the before the two thousand eighteen playoffs is remembered that bledsoe of an important part of that great eighteen nineteen and then obviously the nineteen twenty bucks teams. He was awful in the two thousand eighteen playoffs and getting the bucks to commit to him when Malcolm Brogdon was about to hit restricted free agency of eventually sort of in a way choosing bledsoe over brogden getting that commitment of four years seventy million. That's the full value of the contract getting that before the playoffs before that crispell. I thought that was in many ways. The best part of rich Paul's negotiating there. I thought the bucks got a predeceased until the tires. The last year is only four. Million Dollars Guaranteed. So it's really four years. Fifty five million guaranteed in total now given bledsoe's age. I think that that's reasonable. But I mean he was getting lower. End All Star Buzz with the box. You know what the playoffs we're GONNA look like. It ended up being disappointing playoffs for him. But so that's one that maybe didn't look as great at the time but I also appreciate the idea that he was about to be a free agent is between nineteen. I I appreciate the idea of getting something. That was guaranteed at that. Point reducing the risk. And that's when we're maybe it was just he wanted to be Milwaukee Hughes listening to what the player wanted. There's some injury risk with blood so as wall and you didn't know what was going to look like the point guard market in the summer of two thousand nineteen so this is maybe a discount off of what he potentially could've gotten in free agency but I I kind of liked the idea. I of more. My general philosophy is to be more err on the side of caution basically I would say with extensions and getting aid ninety percent of the money but getting guaranteed extension instead of having to wait until you either. The vagaries of the market of your own performance could bump that down. This wasn't like a steal of a deal for Milwaukee Prius. Maybe getting more of that last year guaranteed would have been nice but ultimately I think especially because I think Paul is Kinda aired too far away from the burden the hand at other Times Eigh. I gave this one a B. I thought this was a solid value. What do you think I agree with that? And I think that the twenty thousand market would have been challenging for Bledsoe because the bucks you know. They've they've whether the decision would have been different in that circumstance. I it very well could have been but remember how long it took to settle and maybe bledsoe would have found a spot. Gotten Dini Green Slot with the Lakers. Let's say another a client going to the Lakers. Wouldn't have been that huge surprise but it's not like the money there would have been significantly better so I don't know if that would if that's really what it would bend. And obviously the Lakers were trying for something else and if they get why then there's not really much of a chance for bledsoe anywhere so it would depend very risky for him especially with the uncertainty the bucks so. I think locking it up early especially before that playoffs was was a very good decision. This one's pretty simple miles bridges rookie scale contract got drafted number twelve. That's right about the rains that he was supposed to be in so gave him ended up going to Charlotte gave him a a C for that. Nothing really positive or negative to say in direction on that one. Yep that's totally fine. Now we can move to win. That's way more complicated I read it. So we're we go back to here. Is the summer of two thousand seventeen? Over that December twenty sixteen was the crazy summer and inferior players to contiguous call. Will Pope got a lot more money? Ready to Kent Moore was probably good. Analog he was getting four for seventy two the Pistons offered him five for eighty essentially and he didn't take it now. I at the time being a big case. Be Stan thought that those the right move to not take that and as it turned out he absolutely should have taken now. He hit with the Lakers. He ended up going there and getting it to seventeen million that year than it was twelve million the next year and then it reduced again to one plus one for sixteen point six million but the reality is now you know we're four years into would have been that five year eighty million dollar deal and he's not going to get anywhere close to that and that's with him not getting hurt all to during that time period and so it really. It was an gritted. I was right there with rich Paul on this one I understood. Why turn that down? But I was wrong and he was wrong. So that's one where I I gave him an F. Plus on that because it was understandable but I he and I were both very wrong on that one and so I still you can say that he's recovered. Somewhat in the context of what the market has been to get caldwell-pope some of the contracts that he has gotten since then. But is you're still dealing with the fact that you turn down at five for for Eighty. We're only going back to contracts here too but that still doesn't look good. I went with an F. plus I were Since last year contract a couple of things to note with Casey P he did get the the choice involved in having that many contracts but there weren't that many teams with cap space so we got to be there and and one worth considering. Is that now especially with him? Being part of Clutch on the Lakers is that that the the Lakers have bird rights. It's possible that he ends up getting paid more on the next contract depending on. How Rob Lincoln? The Lakers are seeing their books. Moving forward so there's a chance changes significantly soon if Casey ends up getting overpaid. But that hasn't happened yet right. And it's not GONNA be sixteen million a year. That seems very very unlikely. Given and that's what it would have been obviously pfeiffer eighty that they turned out but I I was thinking at the time that he should be getting like five hundred and that was overly rosy colored by twenty sixteen and a lot of people made that mistake of thinking that it would be two thousand sixteen forever once twenty sixteen happened and that that obviously was anthony. Davis Paul is not negotiating contracts Shea who used to have them September twenty. Eighteen is when Davis Change over the rich Paul but I gave rich Paul and a because actually skip gorge during carswell about second but I gave rich pollinate because he got eighty two lakers. That's exactly what he wanted. Yeah I think that's fair. One challenge of this in terms of evaluating from an agent perspective. Is that bird? Rights are less valuable with Max player. Who might take a short term contract if eighty I wrote a whole piece on this for the athletic laying out his cadre options if he wants to go short term. Then getting to the Lakers early. He's on the Lakers. This year. You get all that lined up. They they might not have had cap space but it is still valuable because they have is bird rights. He's there already all that sorta stuff. Okay no time for another break here and we'll talk about more of these rich clients with Spring cleaning on the horizon. It's the perfect time to replace that Lumpy old couch or the Sofa. That you're gonNA love from borough. I love my Bro. It's quite durable. Beautiful mid-century designed the cats run over all the time it still is held up great over the last two years. Do the thing I love about. It is its modular. He can start off with a love seat sized and you can add to it. 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So Jordan Clarkson change the rich Paul in June twenty nineteen so ritual is yet to negotiate a contract for him. He was traded to Utah. I don't think rich Paul really had much to do with that So Clarkson was Previously with Octagon. We'll we'll talk about the four year fifty million dollar deal that he signed when we get to the Octagon Turns Ferguson. Seems like Bah is a pretty good relationship with okay. Ceecee some his clients. This is another one where rookie scale contract. Twenty first overall. Pick back in two thousand seventeen. I gave this one a B. Plus he was in Australia got paid which I will certainly take over the NCAA and getting drafted twenty first about kind of where he was supposed to go but to get him. They're in a nontraditional pathways. Also getting paid was solid so Give that a. B. Plus the those solid work for him. It was for me a little bit different because I was getting recruited. By some blue-chip Schools Arizona was on his radar at the time. So I think he couldn't. There's a thought he couldn't qualify. That's the case then obviously going to go data late. It was a good decision dirtiest Garland I gave this one in eight to to get a guy drafted fifth who played four games the previous in and wasn't supposed to even be considered in that level as a player before he got injured at the start of year. Pretty good so that. That's that's pretty much straight away from me on that one draymond green switch over to clutch in March of Twenty nineteen signed a four year. Nine million dollar extension fully guaranteed last offseason. Now is the cooling quote Max Extension. Sorry Richard It. You don't get any extra points here for getting the reporters to refer to it as a Max extension when yes it was the maximum he could have gotten but no is not close to the Mac Salary. So good try there. Driven in theory could have waited longer. Could've extended you could have qualified with all defensive player of the year. Ha ha ha as it turned out but we didn't know that at the time To sign over a two hundred million dollar contract could have signed a five-year deal up to the Max. With the warriors had he waited he was limited in the amount of attention because of his previous deal at five year. Eighty two million dollar deal that he signed with Wasserman but I actually. I gave this A. B. Because I think Jerry wanted to stay. Anka's a good example of listening to the client. Maybe an indication again that I mean. Draymond is is very Very vocal about it. What he wants I think also but it I thought this was good to get the warriors usually kinda get their power to flash To agree to this it was. I think it was a good compromise for all parties. But I like just the fact that it wasn't they could easily have been seduced by the idea of just massive riches and getting the the largest possible extension. And Oh man. Can I the optics of this when I could be getting way? More are bad but as it turned out that was a great idea. Because I don't think he if he were going to be a free agent this year I don't know if he gets one hundred million guaranteed. I think it's very unlikely. Would I would go even higher for a couple of reasons one. The risk mitigation mean dream on. Draymond was getting older. You know like so as we're recording this he's just turned thirty and the market didn't really bear out but also remember that he got a player option on that last year. And that's something you talked about the pound of flesh that something that worries very rarely give out and could end up being useful for him. You know on my expectation based on how dream on his plate. This year is that he will pick it up and just go with it but theoretically if he were doing better or he could opt out and do whatever he wanted there yeah. I think. Those veteran extension negotiations. Those are tough ones. I I do give a lot of credit when the team the player able to get that done mantras Herald. Don't have much to say about him yet. Because his last concert he actually left Clutch in June of twenty eighteen. Joined drew Rosenhaus his agency and then returned to clutch enjoyed twain. Nine hundred I thought Roseanne's agency did a pretty good job to get him two years twelve million as a restricted free agent. At the time. And it's GonNa pay offer him to that. It was only two years instead of three. But May I don't know whether Herald would just wasn't happy with that or whatever but now he's back with clutch and previously when he was with glut us the thirty second overall pick back in twenty fifteen and got a pretty normal contract to for that type of player. So there's a thought he could be drafted in the first round. So I I gave them a little bit. Below average there With the C minus but not really a ton of data And as it turned out who is good for him that he ended up being drafted in the second round but ever wants to be drafted in the first round if they can't Taylor Horton Tucker is basically a see for me. Drafted forty six overall To the Lakers and got a two year deal was good that he got guaranteed money in the second year. That a lot of that. Yeah Yeah so actually. I should bump that up. That's probably A. It's probably a beat binding sexually to be picked forty six. I don't really had a really great idea of him. Being supposed to go higher. Something like that. Lebron James. I gave this A. B. for his three plus one with the Lakers. If only because I thought they just managed the PR of his. Move to the Lakers. Extremely well there. Just wasn't the backlash that there was more that helped of course that he won a championship in Cleveland. But it didn't seem like anyone was mad that he left at that point and he did. It didn't do some big decision thing announced it early so there wasn't too much resentment about making everyone. Wait so that that was definitely a good job with that and then His previous deal was to plus one for one hundred million maximum and give them a be there as well because just to not lock in for too long and get out of Cleveland when he wanted to get out so that was all. They did a solid job from there. Obviously Lebron is a big part of his own destiny but we're trying to be as objective about this weekend. I thought that those those contracts were both good for Lebron Audrey Cory Joseph. Three Years. Thirty seven million. But the last year largely non-guaranteed was his guaranteed money in that last year. Four million guaranteed so overall it was about twenty eight million guaranteed over three years three years. Thirty seven million in total I e. That's a solid solid. B Plus. Yeah he's looking good for Joseph after after your one. Yeah 'cause because he's really struggled to those back I'd be for any non starter to get. That kind of money is pretty good. Then he did well with an equivalent contract in the summer of twenty s fifteen to sign a three year. Forty million dollar deal when I say equivalent based on what? The salary cap was at that time. He also is a restricted free agent. They got San Antonio withdraw the qualifying offer so he could sign that got traded to Indiana in in the middle of that deal but I I gave that a solid. I should go higher on that I think that's a a solid B. pluses wall so Very good job for Cory Joseph. Who's been with them for a long time? Trey lyles this one. I think they haven't really done a good job for him. I mean you could go all the way back to Denver Right. Because he's he's been a longtime clutch client to now. He did get traded to from UTAH. Denver In the Mitchell deal and had a major role in Denver at times shooting. The ball really well. You got traded. After his second year those actually now lyles was like a little bit of a Malcontent in Utah. His second year when they acquired Diani wasn't really playing so in some ways. Maybe it was a good job to get him traded to Denver where he would play more but then I thought were really went. Wrong was an I give him a d. Overall for this was not taking whatever extension offered Denver. I do know that they made him in extension offer. I don't know how much it was. But I'm guessing they're probably would have been more guaranteed money than five and a half million in whatever that accent should offer was and that's what he ended up having to take a two years eleven million second year non-guaranteed and remember that was largely as a response to the to the Marcus Morris Fiasco. Yeah Yeah I be. Who knows even that offer would have been there for him. Had the Marcus Morris thing not happen so yeah? I initially getting drafted twelve. That's right about where he was supposed to go. So that that contract give see too but this was I I actually. I might even go a little bit lower. I think a D. might not be harsh off. I think a D. minus the more I think about it. is probably warranted. Because I mean to get five and a half million. And it's not like he's played so well in San Antonio and this is one where they just and this could partially be the player to but they just completely overvalued where he was that at just about every single possible sir. Ben macklemore became a clutch clients in November of twenty fourteen previously been with Roddy blackstone chronologically as a restricted free agent in Sacramento. He was able to get out of there and sign a two year deal. Fully GUARANTEED WITH MEMPHIS to year. Ten points of a million. I thought that given where he was in his career that was a pretty good contract for him to get it was a decent risk for Memphis. Kazu's Kinda the second draft guy but as it turned out macklemore. Couldn't help the grizzlies at all. So I went for an a minus on that particular contract agree And then I think even his deal with Houston two years four point. Three million very little was guaranteed only about five hundred thousand but given where. Michael Moore. How fringy who was at that point even getting that was good and then to have it. Be a little bit more to Than the minimum. I thought that was a solid effort. Thurs Wall yeah and also part of being an agent for lower level clients which is not what Sacramento envision for Makomo or Makomo for himself when he was drafted is putting them two chances to succeed and I thought that Makamure on Houston team. Where he doesn't have to dribble is a very good? Are we go bit more to get to Nerlens? Noel will be A complicated one Ben Simmons Tristan Thompson John Wall Red with us. Indochino was not just the official outfitter of my wedding but also gasoline from there for my sister's wedding as well. 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I think they only at each other up to fifty but in our present times be better to do it at Indochino dot com instead they even tutorial for how to measure yourself online. Their suits start at just three hundred ninety nine dollars including all the customization and shipping is free. So if you're ready for a wardrobe overall they also sell custom shirts blazers and she knows Indochino made for you and a special extra for your one of a kind enter the familiar couchbase go to check out to get thirty dollars off. A minimum purchase does apply to that. But thirty dollars off your next suit with that cap space. Go that's Indochino dot com Promo Code Cap Space. Dijon say Murray. I thought this is a a a it started off. His career. Got Drafted Twenty ninth. I gave that A. D. He was supposed to go higher than that But again ended up. Going to the Spurs ended up being pretty good for his career but still to go twenty nine clearly. I think he would have been disappointed with that at that time it most. I think there are a lot of people. Talk About Him. Going in the teens. That in two thousand sixteen draft but then to sign a four year. Sixty four million dollar deal in an extension rookie scale extension this year. That I thought was sawed worker. I gave that a B. Given that he was coming off the tornado Seattle. I don't think he's like head such a good year this year that he's outperformed that number will and going back either rich. Paul couldn't have known all of this at the time but the market for teams with Cap Space. Looking for point guards is really rough so that it would have largely been Paul negotiating against tonio potentially threatening to use the qualifying offer and now it's been really tough. Yeah this is going to be a rough market. I think not as bad as twenty eighteen but still pretty bad. This one is maybe the biggest stain on rich. Paul resume to me Straight off on Nerlens Noel. In the summer of twenty seventeen Noel was with happy walters. It was a five year. Seventy million dollar deal. Many sources have reported that that he was offered before free agency began from the Mavericks other reporting is indicated that walters was encouraging him to take that and then Burlington well did not take it and then he signed with rich Paul. So it's again I think it's a reasonable inference and that rich Paul was saying. Hey don't take this. Take the qualifying offer. I can get you more. And he took the qualifying offer and he's been on minimum contracts ever since and the other part of this. I mean obviously turned down the five seventy in Getting minimum contracts is bad enough but he played pretty well and some of those minimum contracts and then only got minimum contracts after that too. Yeah I mean that was just not not having an understanding of the center market and by many accounts no all his is not the easiest guy in the world to deal with but clearly rich. Paul told him something which was along. The lines of you can get more than five for seventy and that That did not appear to be the case. May I? I shouldn't say clearly. We don't know that for absolute shore but I that is a very reasonable inference. Yousef Nerkez nothing really to say on him. He joined the In October of Twenty nineteen his previous agent. Kind of messed things up a little bit. There is a five year sixty five million dollar offer. I think that was reported in an extension from Portland. He ended up getting four years. Forty eight million with the last year only partially guaranteed so that that was not as good. Maybe it might have even been four year. Sixty five million Yeah would have been if it was an extension so that was obviously not a very good job there. Ben Simmons Gave Him A. I mean he was always going to go first overall so thousand see and then the rookie stale extension just to a C. Plus on that one. Five hundred and seventy million to get that done right at the start of free agency with without much haggling But I mean I could. You could talk me into just a regular. C. There too and Simmons did not get a player option. He did get a fifteen percent trade bonus which is nice. But it's yeah I might go a little bit higher but I've I've been you know I thought that was maybe a little bit more risk investments free agency but not that much risk. Yeah knocking not getting the player option but I mean now with this back thing too. I mean that's why you signed these accenture exactly. I mean higher but I thought it was a fair compromise. You know the the team did well if you're asking for the four plus one and I'm the team I'm like okay. Well why would we do this? Why when we'd just go to restricted free agency at that point Jr Smith four years? Fifty seven million is what he signed in two thousand sixteen that ended up being figured they had this weird situation where they're waiting for like two or three months and so finally they agreed on at the last year was non guaranteed is only about two point nine million guaranteed and then. Smith ended up getting stretched this year after not playing it all last year. I think so now he doesn't have a contract. He's been unsigned. I didn't they didn't do a very good job with managing that situation again. Jr not the easiest to get along with the Times but to not to get him in a situation where he was on Cleveland's roster all year he wasn't playing because they wanted to maybe try to trade him because reverence grandfathered in a previous. Cba So he actually was one of those players where he had a low guarantee number but he could counted as full salary. They've taken that away. The Bay or Cleveland wanted to hold onto him. He doesn't play it all all year and then heads. Up unsigned because dixies headache. Andi can't play anymore. They needed to figure out a way that he could behave. Still be playing so he could get some market value and you know he might just be done. Who knows but I? I gave him a deep for the work after that contract because yeah Tristan Thompson finishing out a five-year e two million dollars a year. This is another one that went after the cavs between fifteen finals appearance went way into October. They actually let the qualifying offer expire which we thought it would be a problem but they also needed Tristan Thompson that year. Eventually they did all that to just bump up the deal by like another two billion or so report. I think they offered him. It was reported. They offer them five. Eighty and the first year first day of free agency and finally they kind of didn't have any leverage but got another two million just to avoid Dilemna save face and those are good deal. Though ultimately I mean they had to leverage the cavs needed. I thought it ended up being a fair deal. Thomas the same money as Draymond Green. Yeah Yeah what supposedly. Actually it was. That report from Thompson led to dream on signing his deal. Then Thompson didn't actually end up signing it but I thought they did well there especially because they turned down a far less lucrative extension offer those in like the ten million dollar a year range in the summer of Twenty Fourteen. The fall of twenty fourteen and so to then get that much more that ended up being a gamble. That really worked out so a that. I went with An e minus for the whole deal Tristan Thompson very much on board with that. I thought he did well. And we don't know what extension offers were on the table this year. But I'm guessing Cleveland wasn't offering anything crazy so I tried researchers. I'm pretty sure that the N. Witter's was with rich Paul back in the summer of two thousand seventeen but I couldn't one hundred percent. Confirm that because they're a bunch of other reports that were like clogging up my google searches but four years fifty. Two million that worked out great previously. They signed a one year deal of Miami. That worked out great as well because he was able to really improve his body the the heat culture at least worked for him for a year until he Then began to Chafe a little. But for your fifty. Two million for dion waiters based on basically like forty good games. That was pretty good ultimately so that was I gave that a solid B plus last one ear. John Wall when you how could you give? Yeah Yeah we this is. I always joke with with people about this where it's like. Hey when we're saying it's a bad contract for the team. You probably got to get the agent a pretty good great so A pure a for this one Also got a trade kicker also a player option. Yes you know as I think about my pickup but still visit was worthwhile cowardice on a pluses. I think you should give him an Airbus while I the reason I can't do that is because I'm doing putting these grades numerically into my sheets so I can average them and so a four a four as high as I can go okay But yeah I mean this one. And this is a situation to where they got the designated player Accenture Booz two years before he was going to be a free agent. He qualified for it. But I mean they. Basically got the wizards to give them the no-brainer everything. You possibly can and That maybe wasn't a no brainer. There's another kind of no brainer but not like an easy decision. Kind of no brainer. As as true as things turned out that this looks a lot worse for the wizards than it did at the time. But we still had major questions about it at the time this is. This is the summer of two thousand seventeen right after the the new. Cba came in So yeah now. That was good job. And he had John Wall had left from the late Dan fielding to join Clutch in January of Twenty sixteen. Some of that was On dude some walls frustration with his shoe issues But that's that again is not part of this exercise so art that's That they'll kind of do it for for rich. Paulista going through the individual players his average. Gpa is a two point four so pretty decent I think some of the commentary that I've gotten just a asking around which again I'm trying not to put very much weight on but I think it's worth discussing That he is one of the best agents to have. If you're a Mac sky that he is pretty skilled at using pulling the levers of power and getting guys where they WANNA be. I think the the track record with Davis and Lebron that has been pretty clear so far is another example of that my advice. If you have an offer on the table and rich Paul tells you that you can get more would be. Don't listen to them. We'll see if that happens with Bolivia especially if you're in a in a restricted free agency situation and I'm sure there are many agents in. That's the number one thing you're going to say is you're trying to poach someone is a. I can get you more But that's a that's hopefully you can have a little bit more independent. Generally generally my thought would be if your players if your agent tells you to take something you probably should that especially if you're you haven't made a lot of money in your career yet you know it's one thing if you've already made sixty million bucks in you've got a tolerance for risk and you. WanNa really try and break the bank. But yeah if you're talking about like a rookie scale contract coming off of that you've got a nice eight figure deal in front of you. It's especially if you're not like a clear superstars something so yeah. That's an Paul to to defend him. Certainly that two thousand sixteen seventeen timeframe does a very difficult time for everyone to anticipate the market because there is just so much yoyoing and I. It was people. Were underestimate how much space there'd be. Twenty sixteen than two thousand. Sixteen was such a bonanza that people thought that would be the case in the future in part because the league salary CAP estimates ended up being inaccurate because there is so much twenty six thousand spending so a lot of a lot of agents a lot of teams struggled it in that area but I mean his two biggest mistakes prior Casey and New Orleans and both happened in that summer of two thousand seventeen Art I think that that can be the end here anything. You need to talk about forego yeah Earlier on Thursday recorded and released the real. Jim Radio PODCASTS. For this week. With Ethan Sherwood. Strauss talked about his upcoming book. The victory machine. I wanted to read the entire thing before we talked about it so we we went into some some without spoiling anything from it when I went into some detail. And also because it's the two of US got into the high eighty s and some of the rating stuff and everything else. But it was a great conversation. Yeah I'm not listen to that because I want to read the book I I think for those who are I because I was going to read it anyway for those who are on the fence though. I'm sure he does a great job of explaining why it's so also in the conversation that he and I had to. It's going to be pretty pretty good book. I'll be I'll be waiting until the official release date to re like everyone else so that'll do it. Here stay tuned. Got Ben Taylor onto do are at least semi daily covert nineteen update. Thanks to all those who have given US feedback. And let's bring in Ben Right now. Are Bennett is here now. We're we're GONNA start with our mostly daily cove nineteen roundup and if this is your first time listening to us. We're basically trying to read as much news as we can probably spent five six hours a day doing reading on this out of Ben how. How much time have you been spending on it? I I have an IV at this point. Nate I just put it in my arm when I wake up No it's it's a lot. It's it's a lot to take in in the morning and at night and as I said last time I'm trying to also keep up with anything that's either published or pre pre pre printed in I. I tend to read a lot of journals. And things like that. So I it's a steady dose and things are happening fast and that's the nature of you know being in the in the middle of a global pandemic and so hopefully we can help make some sense of that and presented in a clear way. Thanks to all of you who gave feedback by the way as well as that was really useful. It seems like people want us to keep doing it. We had a few people say. Hey I don't mind if you put it at the end I'm not gonNA listen to it because I want to. Just listen to you guys to escape but we totally understand the to not gonNA take it personally but it seems like people enjoyed this and so I mean as much as you can enjoy it. That's the wrong word to use but found it useful So we're going to keep trying to do this Let's get started with the the news today. What stuck out the most to you over the last twenty four hours or so since we recorded. Oh I think the The hot spots in the United States that are now starting to pop up specifically things that are happening in New York There's also WORD COMING OUT OF DETROIT. That hospitals are being overrun their and their capacity. And just so sort of finally seeing that that breaking point arrive here domestically after seeing these same patterns in other places in the world and Italy and in Spain that that's probably been the biggest one for me to see in the last day or two New York. There'd been some positive evidence cold days before things might be slowing but then there was a big increase in hospitalizations in the earth. There now over six thousand people hospitalized after we'd seen some slower growth for two days after that New Orleans now has the highest per capita death rate of all Americans that's Orleans parish which parishes what they call county in Louisiana and Detroit is not looking good either. Yeah so I saw one study printed by the New York Times that basically said the growth rate down in New Orleans. Louisiana is the fastest of anywhere right now and I. I guess the big concern from just a practical real life standpoint is. They had MARDI Gras a couple of weeks ago. and that of that of course would be A magnify or for transmission. So that's taking place down there And then in Detroit specifically in you know like it actually doesn't take too much to overrun hospital when you start thinking about the numbers that are coming in And so I've even seen that online where you know there are some people on social media. Saying I don't get it. We're only talking about a few dozen or a few hundred cases Well if they're concentrated in an area there is a a nurse out of Oakland County Who had a viral video talking about? Basically how they're out of things like Tylenol How you know. The the custodial staff has to be sort separated. And so who's picking up the extra things in hospital They don't have the proper medication to even into bait patients. If they want to put him on ventilators so these are the kinds of things that start to occur on the ground that are very real that that overrun the hospitals. And then you know. People cannot get lifesaving care that they need. Yeah and I've also seen some disturbing story. The Sacramento Bee had an article today talking about Rural California hospitals than it's much the same in rural areas a lot of people under the impression while. Okay don't be in a city because you're not around a bunch of people and you know that's that will prevent you from suffering the outbreak because in cities density going to trial from person to person more often There's something to that but the problem is that in rural areas especially the a lot of these hospitals are close to being underwater financially. Anyway you know if you have three. Icu beds in whole hospital. With some of these places if you get a car crash with four people. That's like a huge rush all of a sudden because they just don't have the capacity on a day-to-day basis. And so certainly. It's possible that some rural areas could get spared you the lack of density and just the lack of travel to and from those areas. But if you do get hit at all like that might be one of the worst places to be ultimately. Yeah and and you know to to nerd out. It's the average of thing does not represent the distribution so in New York City. For instance. Once you start to have a lot of cases come in If you get hit in one particular area more than another the average or the total number might not necessarily convey how hard that single community got. Hit it was. I guess I have it here. Elmhurst hospital You Know Mayor de Blasios. New York was saying that they had thirteen deaths in twenty four hours. I mean this is You know these are. These are huge things that if they're concentrated into single area can completely strain the hospital service in that area. Yeah and we really haven't seen much so far in the way of any kind of mobile resources which would probably need to be coordinated at the federal level in some states are big enough. Maybe that you can do that yet. Let me let me hop in on that nate. Actually because they're sending two navy medical ships out to duty The the US NS COMFORT is being sent to New York City. So these are these are basically giant floating hospitals. They have like a thousand beds. They have typically over a thousand medical staff One is being sent to New York. The other actually just arrived here in Los Angeles this morning as of recording. This and the idea I guess. In both cases is they're going to serve as hospitals and and you know beds and medical care and all this stuff for people who do not have cove nineteen so they can isolate those patients. You know. That's such a big deal. is contamination and so they can take all those patients they can read all those patients. If you're if you're in a car accident or something in New York and theory you might be taken To to a floating hospital instead of a a land bound hospital. Yeah and I think that that's something that not necessarily in ship form but those sorts of separation so they are going to need to start happening and more capacities can have to get built in somehow. I I wanted to shift now to the idea that many have been talking about. Obviously how we're going to reopen. How long is this going to take? And I think it's important to set our expectations. So there's a new study that came out today from the University of Washington that I kind of view it as a best case scenario essentially that it looks at the what would happen if all states adopt and continue to adopt stringent social distancing. What do we have in terms of number of cases being able to reopen the country in theory and that concluded obviously there are some pretty big error margins on these studies. That as there should be there so much uncertainty especially. Because we don't know exactly how. Well social distancing is working but it seems to be getting to the point now where it has flattened the curve in Washington so far. This study indicates that in Washington. They're not expecting. That issues. Are going to be overloaded over the next couple months. If social distancing can be maintained of course that is a huge F I think Washington has done a good job so far and their leadership seems to get it But it's not necessarily the case for the rest of the country. But in the best case scenario where we maintain social distancing as as we need to really get this under control they project that about eighty one thousand people in the US would die by the first July fourteen hundred in Washington state. Yeah I mean it's it's and that is a scenario where we've got all this in place flat in the curve And there's some range in that projection. They're sort of error bands or anywhere between forty and one hundred sixty thousand deaths but I think it I think it at least puts into perspective the severity and sort of widespread nature. That would be something that would be considered almost a success Just looking at the graph here in the background from their modeling without getting into their modeling or anything like that the assumptions they're essentially making as we start to level out the curve and it still takes time to level out the curve You know we're always going to be a few weeks behind. Before we take any measures there are different measures That are being taken sort of a temporary around the country you know one city in the West Coast shuts down a couple of days later. Another one on the east coast. And so the idea if you look at the model is basically as we roll to the end of. May We slow things down but by the end of May when we slow things down were very quickly just because of exponential growth going to be you know somewhere between forty and one hundred and fifty thousand deaths in some of that is just the sheer population of the country but it also puts into perspective that you know the these are? This is what we're dealing with here. This is what we're trying to You know sort of keep at bay. Yeah and the other important thing to note here. Is that even enter this again? Kind of I'm sitting in the best case scenario because this model assumes that we're going to have social distancing enacted everywhere effectively over this whole time. I don't think that that is necessarily a realistic assumption. Given the the political realities right now but again under this scenario restrictions need to continue into late. May or early June and that's in Washington. The rest of the country realistically is probably behind Washington. As far as locking things down there one of the first to close schools for example they had the worst outbreak initially And again under this kind of best case scenario the forecast that hospitalizations generally gonNA peak mid April April early. May with sixty four thousand more patients than licensed hospital beds nationwide as our capacity currently is at a shortfall in ICU. Beds at about seventeen thousand. And that's nationwide to now if you have hot spots like New York City and you can't bring more resources to bear transportation elsewhere and move from high capacity or a move from high incidence areas to where there's extra capacity than that could end up being even worse because you know you're just not having the distribution of care that matches with two patients and I think I mean. This is all very morbid but I think the thing. That's really worthwhile for me to take away from this or maybe to convey out is is a setting expectations and then be understanding. You know there's a lag and things Even even large extreme measures take some time and then having having a perspective of like well if we don't take those measures Things will get very very very ugly. I mean as you said this is a projection with Most if not all of these measures slowly coming into place in the next few weeks. Yeah and of course if you do reopen though too soon that it's under control enough that we can. You'RE NOT GONNA get infections down to zero at that point in June July. But at least would hopefully have the resources to trace contacts and isolate new cases enough so that the rest of society could continue to function on some kind of level. Of course that doesn't include potentially people coming in from other places now that we're doing so much better than ever else where we can even begin talking about like oh. We got to prevent people coming in from elsewhere. They should probably be more concerned about us. Going there at this point So that that's just I think to me. My baseline is just as I'm thinking about this and trying to plan my life that this is going to need to go on until at least mid June and again. That's an optimistic scenario. There may be other people who are willing to go out. I'm kind of thinking until the things really under control. I'm not going to be doing that. to the the method accent possible. Well it's a marathon I mean that's th there's there's no doubt about it it's a marathon and whether that involves radical change on the scale of months or whatever This thing all the experts say that this thing is going to be around for a while. The idea of a vaccine coming very quickly. is extremely unlikely if not impossible. So it's it's looking like it's going to be a marathon not a sprint. Yeah and perhaps they'll find some already existing drugs that actually work and you know they'll actually be enough testing to show that they work And when they can be used at especially as a prophylactic that's that seems pretty far away but maybe that could happen or the use of antibodies from recovered patients. Maybe that again can slow the spread of this. Make it so. It's not as bad to get this thing etc Let's turn to the world with the incredible news that Boris Johnson Prime Minister in the UK has the virus and the fifty five year. Old Johnson will now be working from home he will be joined in working from home not physically in the same place but He will also be working from home their Health Secretary Matt Hancock. So that's that's pretty incredible. The the leader of one of the biggest nations in the world now has the virus. Yeah I mean I. I don't know if it was impossible to predict per se. He had he. He was talking about interacting with patients Recently and and you know being close to them and shaking hands and things like that. But it's still as as as I said in the last episode. I mean this is the kind of thing that is not going to Only select the common person. It's just also going to hit celebrities world leaders things like that and it's more likely to hit them right. They're coming in contact with more people. I would think so. Yeah as throw in the fact that the people who are more likely to get this originally were people who were traveling. Generally those are people of means who are are more likely to travel around in the circle you know. Nba players was other one rights. That's part of why they're also so high risk and Iran Did just had so many secretaries affected by this right away as well so yeah I mean it. It is All said it's still. It's still pretty shocking news and we'll probably have more stories like that going forward Wanted to talk a little bit more about. Brazil is probably too Glib in our last episode. with joking a little bit about their president but There are actually. I mean kind of in similar fashion to us. There are things that are being done there. The governor of Sao Paulo as a fifteen day quarantine in place that runs until April seventh. Only essential services remain operational The State of Rio de Janeiro close beaches bars restaurants for fifteen days Those have the largest number of cases so they are. There are actually measures. That have gone into effect there. There's been some conflict between the president and the regional authorities but Brazil. Twenty nine hundred cases and seventy seven deaths. That is the most in Latin America second most is a Chile with sixteen hundred confirmed case only five deaths which which is interesting that the always kinda raise my eyebrows a little bit when you see a big disparity in either direction from the the normal death rate the well so when you see that People may be wondering why you see that and and the like simplest I answer is that everyone is in playing by the same rules. So if you test if one country test people that are only in a high risk population and symptomatic Then you're going to have a certain number of positive tests relative to your hospitalizations fatalities and if you are just testing people indiscriminately I guess. Iceland now is just trying to basically test their entire population So you'll see those different numbers and then the second thing to consider their that always happens. Is it takes time Not just for people to contract the virus but if you have a fatality that takes a certain number of days typically run its course you have to catch it. You have to become symptomatic And then it takes a certain amount of time before you typically follow this path of getting into the hospital And then things turn really south so that will change those numbers as you get more data but that's just always something to keep in. Mind that when you look at those big boards. We're not comparing apples to apples with every country especially early on and we'll talk more about that a little bit later on we get to the problem of a symptomatic carriers elsewhere. A the defense secretary in the Philippines who's These one source referred to as the second most powerful man in the Philippines. He tested positive. He is in courting that is a Delfin Lorenzana for a pronounced that correctly. I can't say I was familiar with him before I saw that news. And what's going on in South Korea these days so South Korea has To your point earlier basically set up four passengers in coming from the United States. A set of rules so If you come from the United States you enter a fourteen day quarantine if you're stay shorter than maybe you can go under some special watch and quickly released to where you're going as long as you pass a bunch of tests and you are shown to not be a carrier But basically anybody coming back into South Korea They are taking measures. Especially if you're coming from a place like the United States and so this is just yet another example of countries saying. Hey we still need to have some kind of permeable membrane. We still need to have a border that people can come and go from in some capacity. But we're going to ramp up our sort of restrictions and security measures As much as possible. Yeah China taking a little. Bit More stringent approach they have closed their borders now to foreign travellers. At least based on their reporting which many believe is suspect. A another thing that will get to in a moment here By the way oil wanted to just add Just so people understand some places are even enforcing you know if you're if you're sent about In a in a situation where you're allowed to enter the country but you have restricted movement. Or you're supposed to quarantine and you fail. You fail to quarantine. Some people are now being arrested charged with fines. I believe in theory in South Korea. They were saying If you break the quarantine it can be up to a year in prison so these these are measures. That are being taken quite seriously in these places. Yeah that's a good thing that I mean. We haven't really seen much in terms of penalties for this stuff here yet But it has been more stringent in other places. There's some reports out of India anecdotal so far. I haven't looked into it that much that There's been some very severe enforcement of some of their curfews Back to China the reporters to foreign travellers. There's the thought that they don't have native cases anymore. Essentially in that all the cases that they've been tracking been people coming back from overseas many of those of course are Chinese nationals. Who who are returning so doesn't necessarily make that much sense to close to four hours. Maybe that's just a thought that we just don't have a choice with regard to Chinese citizens they have to come back and so let's at least reduce. I certainly understand the feeling right. They feel like they've gotten through all of this and that they can slowly reopened their societies. We talked about the last episode. But they don't want people coming in from outside messing it up. I'm sure we would feel pretty similarly if we were able to largely get this under control and other areas of the world We're not yeah in the term. I've heard used recently as sparks so in other words you you you come the fire you you you basically put it out. It's not spreading like wildfire anymore. And then when you have when you start to open up international transit you have people from other places where they haven't had it locked down or you could be a carrier you come in and then you start a little you know you have the potential to start another little hotspot if you can get in and that goes undetected so I think this is probably I don't WanNA speculate too much but probably just going to be the norm for sort of the way. Each country has to balance and handle. Hey what if we have it under control once? We feel like we haven't under control we're going to need people coming from other places To kind of you know be at our level if they're gonNA come in if you will staggering news out of Aley that over forty health workers have died. Yeah that and the lack of protective equipment therapy. We're going to start seeing the same thing here. I mean there's no reason to believe that it's not going to be the same here as it was there and we may already be getting there in New York. There's report already that a nurse. A New York died from from nineteen. And if I could if I could hop on a mini soapbox I mean. We said this last last episode. But we in a way are are privileged. At least we have the the knowledge in advance to see the patterns in these other places Italy and even Spain really has repeated this pattern. And now it's probably going to happen here and so to your point However many it is our health workers on the front lines are exposed There's just not enough protective equipment right now and even with the protective equipment in place. I mean you're still putting yourself in harm's way in a sense every day and so just the sheer numbers of this are going to expose more people. Unfortunately yeah I just. I can't imagine being in that situation and just how upset I would feel and yet being able to overcome that and still do my job. I mean I I just like the the level of selflessness that that takes to me is just incredible one thing that's slightly encouraging on that front Stanford he studied that they had found that there is a way to reuse and ninety five mask. You can heat it in your kitchen oven for one hundred fifty eight degrees for thirty minutes or you can heat it over hot water vapor from boiling water for ten minutes and that that enables you to safely and effectively decontaminate the N. ninety five mask and reuse it and so that I thought that was encouraging at least hopefully. We're GONNA continue to find these ways where you know in quote unquote peacetime yet. Don't even bother throw throw away the mask get another one. These things are seventy five cents. It's better not to have to worry about whether you decontaminated up under these circumstances. It's good to see that there are at least ways where you can reuse some of this stuff Although it is a sad that we are in that situation so the hope here Assuming that you know that that's actually. The study has demonstrated. That is the hope here. Is that if you are a healthcare professional And you start to have a shortage of an ninety five that instead of discarding I mean the other thing is it's practical considerations here if you're in a if you're on a shift for a huge number of hours but in theory the idea nate right. Is that in that position? You could then Go home and the the issue with the masks they get all contaminated and Gung DOPP. But if you could if you could take these steps in in I guess you're baking them. Basically Right Then you could reuse them in that situation to more things we want to talk about here. Getting in more to just the the nature of this virus not not as much news. The issue of asymmetric carriers. We talked to them. The last episode of just how. This virus is just such a motherfucker because you have so many people who are able to walk around and spread it around and it seems like there are a significant number of asymmetric carriers between ten and forty percent of those testing positive. Either don't have symptoms or are pre-symptomatic That is now. The question is whether they transmit the virus or not a little bit of evidence to support that between ten and forty percent number the south China Morning Post which is out of Hong Kong. They obtained classified Chinese documents. Indicating that about forty three thousand people that were tested had no symptoms but tested positive. And the way that China was classifying cases. They weren't releasing that data. They had to obtain from classified documents. But there are about eighty nine thousand officially classified as cases. Those are the ones who actually shows symptoms and then forty-three thousand. Additionally who were kind of not reported were without symptoms and so that's that's about thirty percent right there. Yeah it's it's about a third The short answer on this my understanding from speaking to epidemiologists The the the short answer is that you just won't really know until you can actually get blood draws and the the serological data to see who had antibodies later on. This is common practice. They they go do this Later on in the season and try to estimate the total number of Asia is a symptomatic but it does seem to be from all the different data points. We can get in this range. I don't know if it's forty percent or twenty percent. I've seen a lot of studies. There's one mathematical study out there. That tries to Ballpark it at thirty percent. Whatever it is either way I think probably the most practical takeaway for us at home is that a you can be symptomatic. And carrying and be you can transmit when you're a symptomatic as well and that's part of what makes this thing so dangerous so difficult to to handle. Yeah is there varying estimates on how much you can be transmitting when your AC dramatic but The W Joe's that's not a trend significant transmission vehicle one to three percent of cases of asymmetric. They estimate actually transfer right. I think that's old I. It does seem that way because Ut Austin study estimated that ten percent of cases are transmitted by those asymmetric not that ten percent of e symptomatic people transmit but that ten percent of cases of result from transmission by people who are asymptomatic which. That's a pretty big number. Yeah Yeah and I just think in general. There's there's going to be uncertainty early on but there there does seem to be a pretty hefty amount of evidence that that is part of the story. And then the the other wrinkle their that I should mention Is that the way we define a symptomatic? Sometimes it's even funky right because because think about it If you're listening right now dow maybe you know because of Copeland nineteen but you know you might have a sneeze or cough or something during the week clearing your throat. Dry Throat. Something that you may chop to allergies and temperatures exactly that you don't take your temperature. Is that a symptom or not. For a lot of people they don't even notice But then medical. You could classify that as a symptom. So it's just sort of it's a gray area It's something that is going to impact your numbers your projections your estimates but the goal is it's going on for my understanding is to Try to not be too dogmatic about it but understand the ranges and then take defensive measures based on what those ranges could be when you project things or as individuals when we go out Trying not to get close to people and things like that also wanted to share a Taiwan Taiwanese study that indicates that more transmission of the disease occurs near Symptom onset. So the conclusion was that right around the time that you become symptomatic. That is when you are transmitting. The virus the most to others and so that again goes in with ASEM. Dramatic starting to become symptomatic. That apparently is when you are transmitting. The virus the most and so the scary part about that is well finding isolating symptomatic patients. That alone may not be enough to contain things because if it's getting transmitted so rapidly before people start showing symptoms or you know. I mean obviously aren't I just coughed once? I'm not going to immediately go get tested right as you've probably going to be a day that like okay. I might really be sick here. I got but you're transmitting. The virus during that period apparently But the good news from that is at least mild cases. Don't require prolonged hospitalization because there is a reduction of transmissibility overtime. So once your body kind of gets the virus under control. Now you're transmitting a lot less. Not that you can't transmit it but that it happens less so that's that's at least the one decent thing about that. I WANNA I wanna add something there. That was pretty comforting for me and I've talked to a lot of friends who have been in this weird psychological place. Where you you cough and you think like. Oh my God is this. Why do I have to do? I need to get tested. What you're my level of panic be And it was a physician and apologies. I can't I can't remember the physician anymore Or even where I heard the interview but basically the advice was this. As if you're if you're a young healthy person young could be. I mean under fifty under sixty. Just if you're in general you're not walking around with underlying conditions and you're not in the older age range You should really do yourself the service of treating your health based on how you feel versus what you fear. That was the big that was. That was the message. What you feel versus what you fear so As we've been talking about most of us will cough clearer throat sneeze all these other little subtle things and that's not something that We need to think immediately. There's actually happened at the beginning. And I heard some from some friends who worked in Ers when they started to put measures in or publicized this in the United States or declare state of emergency. They got slammed with everyone calling or wanting to come in saying like you know my fever might be ninety nine point one. Do I have cove in nineteen? I need a test And so the advice for me hopefully for you comforting as well like if you're in that situation how you feel not what you fear yet that's That's pretty good advice than obviously there. There's a concern that the Hell Systems. We overwhelmed to some degree with people with mild symptoms and to the extent we can save that for the people who are really in trouble. That's something we should all be trying to do. Some of this is proof thing open. Yeah I do you WanNa just kinda summarize where we're at with that so so there's this idea that was circling around the web with Ibuprofen That basically not just circling around the web and the French Health Minister. Basically said that you Ibuprofen could worsen Could Worsen Cove in nineteen. Yeah and so so there's some theoretical underpinning here where basically they noticed okay The Way Cope in nineteen enters. Your body I guess it binds to this quote unquote aced two receptor. And then if you take Ibuprofen. Ibuprofen actually Leads to the production of more of these receptors. And so it could in theory make it easier or more likely for cove in nineteen to bind to your lungs in one of the things they're saying is like it. It sort of travels from and this is totally nonscientific here. I'm just sort of regurgitating. The high level it goes from higher up in your system like near your throat ear nose but will travel down into your lungs when he gets into your lower lungs. That's when things are really bad. And so the theory was okay. If IBUPROFEN increases these these receptors. Then basically what happens is you could be making the case worse. You could be making the patient worse when they have Cova. They're taking this to reduce their temperature and there were a few anecdotal stories. Coming out of early places like China related to this and so I mean there is at least one video that I saw that was viral. That had like millions of us on instagram talking about this and basically what we're finding out and wired article Today or yesterday basically summarises is very well just because there's a theoretical underpinning that doesn't mean there's any causation that doesn't mean it actually is related to how well the virus spreads or any of the other factors that we don't know about that allows for reproduction of the virus in your body. And so you know it's there's no evidence per se. Ibuprofen is actually a problem. Yeah there's a there's a theory behind it. I mean so you just kind of make your own decision on that one at this point. I mean I think from what I understand. Not taking ibuprofen isn't going to hurt you with this You could take Acetaminophen seat Dominican still and try to reduce your fever that way. If that's what you feel like you need to do but I mean for my standpoint if there is a theoretical reason not to. I don't need to take. Are you pro fun? I guess I will decide not to take it out of an abundance of caution but that's acknowledging that we don't actually know that that's that you and to to be like all right you're gonNA YOU'RE GONNA kill yourself by taking Ibuprofen you know. That's probably going a little bit too far right and I and I I would say that's what The science author of this Mary McMahon McKenna at wired. That's kind of conclusion as well. I mean nate. You're saying better safe than sorry that that probably makes sense to a lot of us Because there isn't really a cost if you I guess in theory if you had a really bad fever you you might want to move to try to get treatment anyway but if you have a mild fever One of the things she notes correctly of course is that the increase in temperature in your body is a thing designed to kill and fight off invaders so You know I guess you could go either way but the I thought it was an interesting takeaway for how in this time right. Now where all these things are unfolding in real time Just we need caution in terms. We need humility in a sense. In terms of scientific data in terms of scientific literacy in terms of jumping to conclusions about things. It's it's GonNa take time to know stuff for certain. And of course given that. Nothing wrong with airing on the side airing on the side of caution yeah It's a great lesson to bring everyone to just say. Hey we just don't know and maybe you're you're better safe than sorry but Maybe that's what our whole society we should be looking at this point but I think we can wrap up here and we'll be back. Try and do this at least three times a week. Or so Were we do have our regular jobs as well and it does take a lot of time but we're trying to fix it so hopefully if you listen to this maybe you can not have to spend five hours reading about all the stuff yourself to and just say I got. I got what I needed to learn the the big news today. And then maybe now. You're free to go live your life after listening to a half hour this instead of feeling like you have to spend hours reading about it too. So hopefully that provides a little bit of a service for you and For Ben this is nate. And we'll talk to you next time.

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Caregiver Grief  A Practical Discussion

Fading Memories: Alzheimer's Caregiver Support

1:06:27 hr | 1 year ago

Caregiver Grief A Practical Discussion

"Even though the loved one you're carrying forward is still alive. You may already be feeling the weight and pain of their loss while some people might think of this the type of depression. It's really a distinct form of grieving and it's also a natural expected response when caring for someone. What with long-term incurable disease? This kind of grief can hurt as much as what you feel. When a loved one dies sometimes it may make the Lawson after death easier but not always? It's real you can't ignore it and hope to just power through allow yourself to process the grief and appreciate the time you have left. He won't be doing your loved one a disservice by doing this however you will be doing yourself a disservice if you don't allow yourself to feel your honest feelings. Welcome to fading memories US accord a podcast for those of US caring for a loved one with memory loss a quick note before we get into the show. Please make sure you're following us on social social media. All of the links to our accounts are in the show notes which you can click through rate there on your phone down below got it. Thanks so much and while you're are there would you mind giving us a four or probably five. Maybe even a ten star review. We're still in new podcast and this is the best way for New People to find find us and make sure you like and share this with your friends with me. Today are two people Lisa. Marie Turko you heard from her earlier this year. She is a producer of the dementia. Caregiver cruises and Richard CRICHTON CRICHTON. He is also carrying for his wife. Kate and they were talking about caregiver. Grief and maybe kind of how to navigate all the intense feelings that caregivers have while we're smaller caregivers. So thanks for joining me. Richard and Lisa. Aw thank you Jennifer. It's great to be here. I'm also happy to be with you. Jennifer look forward to so Richard. Why don't you tell tell me or tell us a little bit about your journey because you also took care of parents? You've been down this road several times and now you're you're on a journey with your wife which I understand from our previous conversations is different than caring for parents. Yes I would say so. This is by the way my thirtieth consecutive year of caregiving. And so I had been through a lot on the other hand and my experience with my wife is very different because I am her sole caregiver and I'm living with her. It's a full time job. I retired hard to take care of her with our four parents and then with Mike Dad's significant other after my mother had died You know it was a different kind of experience. My parents lived in town so there was a lot of Diana out activity of Sarah's parents. They were Brin Texas to start with her father died later her mother had vascular dementia joined us with us in our home for five and a half years with the round. The Clock Care Twenty four seven at five and a half years are are placed ran Leica sort of like a little hospital or nursing being civil of Eight and my dad had a stroke He lived to be one hundred. He was the longest living of parents and and had a stroke three years three and a half years before he died and that immobilized him and he was a nursing skilled nursing rest of his life but mentally he was sharp he was actually in the early stages of vascular dementia. This is a little funny. Say for someone WHO's one hundred five but He was still rather Shar and whatnot. So overlapping with my father's of situation was the diagnosis with Jason. Two thousand eleven and So I've had that kind of experience in that one is very different. Because I hate to generalize I can only tell you about. Our experience of the difference is in the nature of the relationship. The spousal relationship is is just clearly different from a child. Licensed Shift In many respects I guess I I felt like my parents said live full lives and so they're being ill and dying was part of what I expected all along but I didn't feel that way at all when Kate. It was diagnosed because I felt like we were reaching in our lives when we would be doing much more. Unfortunately we have perhaps stop a moment and see if you've just lays the ground were were were discussion while. Thank you for sharing your journey with us. Richard the The topic is so important and While you you aren't expert by experience you've had so much much going on as a caregiver and it's interesting to see the differences too as you were talking. I was thinking about all the different types of grief and we read a lot about Anticipatory grief and Certainly eight like you said we expect as our parents get older these things to happen and and I don't know the type of grief you're feeling now with your wife but I think living in the present moment which is so hard to do an for care partners caregivers. It's it's one of the most difficult things because your mind races in a million different directions. Imagine as a spouse. You're grieving what once was you're asking the why question but you've clearly done a beautiful job of living in the now. There's a lot of folks out there who are not as fortunate as you see really. You're setting a great example for a lot of people you know for my dad's less part of his journey he was in unskilled nursing. And that's when I was his caregiver or night was at the nursing home every day and it's very difficult So not only did I have the anticipatory grief also too. When I saw my mom and dad interacting? I was so sad to see what could not be so. Alzheimer's came in stole away. Their golden years and to watch my mom just the sadness that she had in interacting with my dad and vice versa and to see to see my parents not be able to be what they should have been at that time so that was another grief and that made me very sad as well because you. Don't you love your parents and you want them to be happy. So there's all these layers of grief What I did that? I WanNa talk about in your clearly not doing that. Richard I often would put it on a shelf and you can't do that So can can you perhaps talk about how from day to day. You're living your life very fully. Is Kate Your your your spouse her name again. I'm sorry yes so you. Kate are living very fully. Could you talk about from day to day what what happens when let's say you're you're Out with her. You're having a nice lunch and you look over at her. You know the woman that you love Nigga your mind does race to the future or to the past and you feel it just it comes in from out of nowhere and maybe you WanNa cryer. You WanNa turn away. What do you do when it really gets Ya during the day and and you don't you don't want to see that you don't want her to be hurt by that and you want to be strong? Can you share with us. How you deal with that? Okay well first let me say I don't experience exactly what you're talking about it. My feelings of grief and sadness don't don't usually appear in that kind of situation they come up in the middle of the night okay. I wake up at two o'clock in the morning and my I keep going to the future and what might happen than even though I feel like I have a game plan I feel a sense awesome anxiety. Okay about it So that that's probably the most typical thing on the other hand. What happens during the daytime would be? Perhaps when we're not when we're not interacting at all I just feel feel like there are things that I should be doing that. I'm not doing and I have no excuse for not doing. I still feel like you're doing that particular K. A. so that's that's those are the kinds of situations that occur. When I am with Kate I feel like liked? I am constantly working on focusing on her and that actually keeps me occupied. I don't feel grief at that moment. I do do. I'll tell you the toughest moment though in the year. This is a sadness Molin. I'm not sure you would say this is art of grieving but it certainly has agnes the troublesome part for me is when she's hurting and that has happened a few times. She's had a couple of panic. Attacks and several times can times times that I would call more anxiety rather than panic attacks. When she doesn't know who she is? She doesn't who I am. She wasn't aware she is and she's just uneasy bows are tough for me to the and but again what I have to do is help her her. And I'm so focused on trying to for example. Give her some kind of stimulation. That will show her pictures off about Amalie things that I I know. She likes to give her some sense of comfort that I think that sustains me for a while during the moment in the it's afterwards word the the there may be some kind of lingering I came. I find keeping busy and I do stay pretty busy staying busy. He has helped me tremendously. Okay I may also add. There's a real difference with my father and I think something that helped me my my father. I great admiration for him. And he was very big gregarious person so he had a distribution list of a lot of Abeille kept up with on email when he had his stroke ninety seven and he could no longer use this computer afterwards so I took go over the distribution list and I sit out almost daily emails to everybody on his ahead of fifty five. I said emails out almost almost every day under his name. And under I said and scribe and I tried to capture what he was thinking and feeling all awhile and I often read to him and he felt they were. I was captured. That gave me a sense of purpose and kept me from from from feeling sadness even as he deteriorating half a dozen and then of course he really did leaves a good life until two weeks before he died so that was not well. I love that story. Thank you for sharing that with us. That's beautiful so just sort of taking the reins over from something that he did before the stroke and being a part of that and he's still communicating with his friends. And he knew you were doing it. Neighbors happy about it and it helps you and it helped him. Oh absolutely he got a kick and sharing a lot of these things on facebook as well and Holler was a funny man. I mean there was always Patel and You know for example. I I get a call in the middle in lines. Two o'clock in the morning born in the say what are you doing as while I was sleeping. Dad is what time is it once two o'clock in the morning and he said Oh. I didn't know that he would always go online. This even even near death's door when I introduced into preacher preacher who was going to do is funeral service. He said come at you have to pay him. I just always had store always had had materials always. The drill was a fun guy. People and that that helped sustain me quite honestly honestly I am sustained now with came I. It's more like a mission feeling for her. I watered feels safe and secure and happy and so I I concentrate on that. Now that's swoop. Some people would say denial I don't know I I call it love I call it love. I wouldn't call it. Denial maybe a psychiatrist or psychologist. Were but I I call it love and your father sounds like a very special man and so does kate while those are. Thank you for sharing these. These are great stories and I think they help people to so for instance when I when I talk about my journey and I urge others I I if I had to do it over again. What I wouldn't do is go into that tunnel so what I did is I had tunnel vision? I didn't I just took my pain gene and my migrelief just put it on a shelf and I and I concentrated at the task at hand was to make sure that my dad got the best tares possible at the nursing home and everything that there was a quite a bit involved there. But what you're talking about. It is very important. So there's little ways in Jennifer. I think you'll agree that care partners and caregivers could maybe pivot and shift during the day and I and I think just share Your Story About Your Dad's newsletter that may have given a caregiver some ideas you know Jennifer when you go in to see your mom at memory memory care. She's not a lot going on there. in I know there are some days you shared with me whether some anxiety and and you've helped her to can you share with us. Maybe some ways that that you have to out of that sadness anger anxiety. Why don't know if it's if it's a positive thing for some but it works for me is because she's declined quite dramatically over the past? I four months. And we've had some miscommunication between her brain and her bladder says. She thinks she's had an accident when she hasn't Denton. That's been not fun. There have been many days I've shown up and she's in a state of distress and undress. It's really hard to say clearly and in the beginning I would. It would hit me kind of like almost like a slap across the face because she's upset in unhappy in. It's like oh I just I just wanted to take her to the park to watch the kids aides or whatever so now I just I kind of before I get out of the car center myself a little bit and I just expect the worst and every week when I've expected just stress and unhappiness. I haven't gotten any of it so I don't know if it's I don't know exactly exactly why my world works that way but I try to just when I show up I try to make sure that I'm in a positive mood and put a big smile on my face on the matter. How oh I feel and greet her with almost a ridiculously effusive happy greeting? I mean probably probably looks a little bit clownish to people who don't have broken brains but it always kind of puts her on the right in the right step. It's like Oh my best friend is here. We're going to go do something funds. I'm not sure that she remembers that. But it's more of a feeling in his. I worked very hard to give her happy little adventures. Take her out of the memory. Care residents give her fun the things to do even though they're not really all that fun. I struggled a little bit with I am very I have to kind of tamp down the I get kind of angry because I feel like even though we oh my dad had chronic illnesses. This is and we all should have expected him to go. I that was never a conversation and I get I get mad because like the woman's got plenty of money she could travel travel and decorate Ever the heck she wants and not be stressing about whether or not. She's had an accident or repeating herself. The same spot fought at the same place in the park over and over and over. Just I I guess I get angry because I feel like. She's just been robbed of what she should have. She's got three grand in kids. That's my daughter's almost twenty eight. My niece is almost fourteen and my nephews ten and a half so she's got a variety of Grandkid ages to be doing fun things you know my daughter's planning a wedding and we don't even know if we'll bring my mom because she gets confused and it's stressful. Aw and then you feel guilty. 'cause you're like she should be there but having her there it doesn't really add to the joy it actually makes things worse since I always feel like this tug of war like what's the right thing to do for myself or you know the extended family bursts. What's the right thing to do for mom at constantly feel that the tug of war like emotionally not easy? They're not easy things that you're talking about and And I know they. They are common across the board with families in. There's all these stages of this disease They're not easy One thing I stress with our clients is talking about besides living in the present moment. Is that no matter you know. We know the progression of the different types of dementia. We know what happens with the body does but ah the person never stops being who they are. There's just sort of think about there's there's a little layer yes there is some it is a brain disease but with their soul their essence is still there. It's always still there and And it's easy when we're frustrated during the day and there's multiple of mid maybe there's there's additional health issues and your loved one is having a bad day. It's easy to forget about that. But it's disease talk all at once but underneath your your loved one does not fade away. And we hear these terms thrown out all the time you know it robs yes it does do horrible horrible things to the human body but it cannot take away their spirit and their essence. And you know. And that's that's hard to remember. I know when when we have our day to day issues it sounds like Richard. You do an excellent job with remembering who kate is. All the time will let me say I attributed directly to Kate herself In fact I I I love your saying something about retaining her essence goes. That's exactly what I've experienced with Kate. She is still underneath the same kind loving Hurson who also wants to do things. The Right Way I eight for example even now there are the times when she will snap at me in a way she would never have done before but the media having done so she's she's likely then to apologize to be and she's Oh I'm so sorry I I shouldn't have said that I should have spoken to you. That way She so sensitive sensitive to that and she's she expresses her appreciation. I just a few civilly and so commonly in everyday alive of she talks about how patient I am. Were there all things I do. Four I mean she is. She is still so aware of so so many things and her own self-awareness. I'm I'm astounded her own self awareness so I have an easier job than most puree ours and I'm I I really even hesitate sometimes to talk about what our experiences light because I know other people are are struggling more who have more challenging situations than I have by a long shot and their many things working in our favor favor and the only thing that has is the fact that she has Alzheimer's and you can't get around but Her essence is still there. You're my mom's essences still there. But because she and my mom I get the parental essence. I I think I said on the phone and I said this to Richard earlier before we were recording couple of weeks ago when I was visiting with her. And as it. Because we're still having beautiful weather here. Northern California I take her to the park because she enjoys watching children. That's probably getting boring for everybody to hear. But that's what we do and she verbalised some stuff at me. It was words but it was not a sentence so I apologized and I told holder I didn't sorry I didn't hear all of that. And she repeated it and I it still made no sense and I probably should have just agreed. Read with her but it was a frustrating day in the beginning of the day for me not having anything to do with my mother and I wasn't wasn't as mentally sharp in that direction as I guess I should have been in so I apologized again. I said I didn't understand or something along those lines and she. You just whipped around and looked at me and she has now. I've told you twice. Now you sit still and be quiet and I was like oh I do not think we. You're going down this path and I just looked at her and I said I'm sorry but people do not tell me what to do. I'm an adult. Then she says well. Excuse me for Living Mike. Okay this is going so I get a lot of the. It's like my entire life. Whatever I did was not enough and as an adult? My daughter's twenty eight and the path that we all thought she would be on is not the path. She's he's on so I've had to mentally pivot in say I did a great job. She's happy she's on her own. She supporting herself the Yes. She's not using her college degree but that's because she's got a chronic illness that prevents it so wife is fine with my parents. It's I think they always wanted. They wanted the best for me and if they didn't think that I was meeting at Mark I always felt like matter what I did. It wasn't good enough. I still feel like that with my mother and I don't know if that's all on me or if I'm getting some of that. Parental vibe from her from her essence. It's like you said it's really frustrating. Because Holy Heck I really work hard to give her Nice Adventures enjoyable. You know we go to the pool and the librarian the park. I take it all kinds of different parks. She has a variety not that it matters to her of kids to watch and I do occasionally get thank you. I had a really nice day but most of the time. It's just I get this contrary attitudes makes you wanNA stuff staffer in the trunk while you know. Bad comment I you know. There's here's the difference you're putting your finger on one of the differences. I see between parents relationship with parents and our relationship with your spouse. The you're always the child in some senses and parents frequently hold that late in life and we as children do the same thing for our parents you know. We don't want to really interfere with them when it's necessary they don't believe it's time and there are lots of other things that go on in that interaction that make it different canaanite nine in the very nature of our marriage has all in fact. I learned very early I this by saying my parents had a great marriage remarried seventy years. They quibble all the time my dad used to say. It's not a good day if we haven't had a fight I don't remember. They're really fighting but they they did just always thinking about things parents. Sarah's parents never did that when we married something came up and I said something kate in it just broke her heart. That was something that I thought was just a natural thing. That coming coming out of my family seemed innocent and I learned right there very quickly. Our relationship needed to be different. I needed to respond differently to her up. She was going to be hurt all the time. Therefore the nature of our relationship has been that we are both conflict avoiders. Neither one of US wants this conflict. Any with anybody and we are both people who want to please others and each other and I think those two things have worked in our favor as she's been through her Alzheimer's that it is still there. Each of us is still playing out. That scenario These these dynamics are not easy and I understand. Thank you for sharing that Richard Richard and Jennifer. I understand what you're saying What maybe it's time for you to shift into a A A different way of seeing that relationship. You know because someday when your mom passes away okay and she's in the higher realms don't think for one moment that she doesn't appreciate or have gratitude for the sacrifices that you make and for everything thing that you're doing with her all the beautiful ways that you're trying to enrich her life right now I know she has it in her heart and as I said someday okay when she passes away from higher realms she she will see a much bigger picture but from day today. It's you have to see. That's the thing that's it's so difficult especially with the dementia all types of dimension not just Alzheimer's Human Brain is so so complicated and these stories of our loved ones. They're going to vary so greatly you know my experience with my dad is quite a bit different than maybe maybe someone else had you know. Everyone has a very different experience. Richard experience with Kate is different. Keep in mind that these chain chain. You're you're seeing these things going on with her and you almost have to attribute I don't want to give a percentage but also say immaturity to that. Yes she might remind you of the mom you have a new were in your teens and twenties but remember that these daily changes going going on her brain. Remember the organic changes that are happening. So unfortunately there's going to be that layer. There might be sarcasm quirkiness as you know. They may get better over time or lesson overtime. I mean my dad lost his voice for the last five years of his Alzheimer's journey any so that obviously was not a dynamic that we had And people would walk in all the time to you. Know his his room at the nursing home. When you know the the staff the common question was does he still know who you are and it would frustrate me to no end? Because he did ED and Just because he could no longer talk You know you we start in his eyes. We saw that essence of frank and it never her left. You know up until his last day on earth and it's it's tough as the family members but you have to know although that it's we can't get a window into the human brain with the disease is doing things that are going to perhaps make something worse worse. A part of your loved ones personality. That was prevalent in earlier. Years might be lesson or by be worse. You see what I'm saying Jan.. Yeah and it's interesting because I see the need to be helpful. Caring person from mom towards towards the other residents but because she thinks I'm her best friend. I don't get affections and I'm not necessarily looking for affection affections with. She won't hold my hand when we walk. You know to keep her from being a fall risk which have discussed in the past. She won't Walk Elbow in Elbow with me. I give a little you know. I don't want him minor. Hug It. Just a light hug before I go every time. Uh and that seems okay. But it's it's not a full body that you would give your mom because she doesn't like that so it's it's really see. It's almost like a a brain game that I have to go through. Because there's the part where she says things that are what's the right word. She'll say things in a core sway like well. Excuse me for living. And that's that's the negative person that I knew growing up and then I see her bean helpful in in kind all the residents in it's like are are you kidding me and I just kind of how she was as I grew up so I accept it. But it's so those things might be amplified now and they may get worse and I understand what you're saying at the heart of what you're saying is that you're hurt by it. You want you want the hand holding and I understand that and you want the hugs and you want when you walk in the room her bedroom at her residence now you want her to smile and say oh hi. I'm so glad you're here. I get that what you're saying so that that serve a form of grief because your heart hurts would understand too. There's a layer overt your mom's us in so it might be very hard. She might not. I truly see you like you said you best friend and the daughter role. Maybe his on a shelf right now but that's not her. That's what the disease is doing to her. But in her heart she loves you so much so much. And as I said Sunday when she's in the higher realms and there's going to be so many blessings blessings and you will feel that you may not feel it until she passes away but right now I think so you don't keep getting her maybe just just just pivot into okay. I'm your friend in the you know what she's going to surprise you and I think Richard's are GonNa agree with me on this. You're gonNA find after you put that that that that desire maybe on just put it away a little bit. She's been a surprise you when you least expect it. She may reach out for your hand. Orsay let's walk arm-in-arm or or it could be the smallest gesture but I have a feeling that that will will happen and I know that's hard that's what you're going through. Now that's difficult. That's tough stuff while I'm GONNA I'M GONNA keep that in mind because when I show up in like I said in a few weeks over the summer she'd be in her room in a state of distress lately she's been out amongst the other residents doing whatever it is they do and when I show up I don't get an A. UH-HUH HIGH I get. What are you doing here? I mean it's friendly but it's like really I always say well I'm here here to visit with you. Oh and then. She says a variety of different strange answers. It's I'm wondering if if I'm mm-hmm reacting like emotionally like if it it's like a barbed hitting and so she kinda gets that sense and then I have to kind of pivot away from you know you're GonNa just be really nice if she just said. Oh Hi Enough to tell me Nice to see you are wonderful and then you get her. And it's you know you're human. It's impossible not to a show that emotion Richard could you step in here because your experiences so different You know you don't get those sorts of reactions from Kate. has there ever ever been a time. Where maybe she was a little upset with you and can you talk about how or or she didn't seem herself How you pivoted away from? Yeah well yes the answer yes I have tended to joke with her a lot. But it's just our Mike Silly personality coming from my father than the Sarah has akitas never been one to do that but she started early on. She started joking with me which I was encouraged about but what happened was her joking Took took on a sarcastic note in crept into being more serious they. They didn't seem funny when she was joking with me. They seem incident. This happened early in the morning. Especially and that's when she's rowdiest and I wake up alert so those two things don't work with and I made a conscious effort to stop joking with her. Because I felt like I had let her into that joking and that she tried it and it got into the very negative kind of interaction. So I cut out of that. And I work consciously very much the way Jennifer is were unconsciously unconsciously now with her mother. But I'm happy face into the soft in general and in particular not a Bra with her in the morning and Over time I have found the bet has worked out and made a change because I made a change but it didn't happen overnight right. It was a succession of really over long term. We no longer have that. And I'm also thinking about the difference in the relationship again between a spouse and a parent particularly as Jennifer's. I was listening to you. I was thinking I believe I've heard your the story from other women before whose mothers did not have dementia. The mother daughter relationship has a lot of special qualities to in itself and that's a complexity. The spousal arrangement doesn't have of course is to spouses can have a horrible relationship and exacerbate the problems with dementia. It just turns out ours has been a more of a comforting supportive loving kind of relationship which then has facilitated are getting all one other thing I would add the least. I think you probably feel this way. We'll see in a number of authorities suggests that a getting angry angry or bitter are not things like that are not direct symptoms of dementia but they're a secondary act that occurs. There's because they don't understand the intentions and I find that we kate now There are times. She misinterpret something out said and she's she takes offence or is she thanks. I rushed her. I didn't mean to. She felt and I she's good about telling me and I respond quickly to adjust not push. I think that has helped me a lot and improve the situation. That's a very good point Richard if we could get back to grief a little bit Richard I have a question in for you Do you. Let's I'd like to talk about anticipatory. Grief is that something. That's a constant companion for you. Are you able to just push that away. You talked about when you wake up early in the morning. It is there. It isn't fortunately it is not constant companion a did not at all however it comes in waves it it sneaks up on me at times and I can't say that I can put my finger on it. I do think is at least partially involved in new symptoms that Kate has when when something is a new loss something that I haven't seen before it's a reminder of the direction in which we're moving in that direction So and then I you know I'm going to deal with that first short time but it is short live. It's not something that lingers with me for a couple of days days of its But I do find I go through times when one a day. Or so I I'm really bothered and I slink directly about anticipatory. I find myself thinking more about things I wouldn't have permitted Advi self to think I think now about her Just the other day I was talking with someone and I was talking about For the first time I think I've talk with some other. People whose spouses have died shortly after the stage. Where keyed is right now and I express my own? I'm feeling that as much as I would hate to lose her. I think I would feel good if she passed away before she had to spend Ivan half years like her mother other semi conscious and unable to have much quality of life at all so arrows. I think about death. It's more present. I also was concerned about what would happen to put to her if something happened. You're both in good health but I have become a a little anxious. About what would she do she. She can't function without me. I have my staff prepared to jump in for me in immediately before our son could get to Arar daughter either one John but I have recently made arrangements at a continuing Caricom retirement community of or the two year period. But I'm not sure kate would be able to join me at that time it might not might not be with me. But it enables me unconsidered having made it down payment. I'm considered a member of that community. Now and I have all of their resources which include a senior bancaire ear memory care unit skill nursing the world. I could take advantage of now if I if something happened to me. Well that's great so the element of planning which folks talk about but but not often enough and that's wonderful that you have thought that you no to the long term it takes away some of the the anxiety that you may feel the pressure to answer that question. What if so you've taken the instead of just sitting back and worrying about taken those steps Annette's Great Richard? A question I have for you. That Jennifer is is brought up It's talked about a lot in the media. Is the male caregiver now are you. How do you feel about so? Obviously you don't have a problem with sharing your feelings but feel. There's a stigma there. There's there's even men in their teens twenties thirties. They it's common now. They just feel trapped with their emotions and that somehow it's not macho to express them. What are your thoughts and feelings around men on expressing grief? Well I wish it could be otherwise it would be my starting starting point but I feel like there's so much history behind this and I do believe that we are changing changing. I believe men are learning lots of things I think the way. The world is changing with a more contact with women in work exciting's in in virtually every profession. I think the world is changing and men change with that. I think we're better off if we can express our feelings. I don't know why I do by the way my father as much as I admire him. He was not wanting to do that. You know he just never did it. That he was a man of his generation I'm I don't know why feel differently. But it's it's been a part of me I actually. I do think I'm a funny combination of my mother and my father more more my father but I think I got a touch of my mother when it comes down to a I should say it this way but a more imminent disposition in a variety. I think I'm a more natural caregiver than my father. My father. He was so in love with my mother other. He was a very very loving area with her and to his significant other hawks as well I don't I'm having instruction for for other guys explained to them how they can be as I am. I'm not certain I fully understand I am. I feel like I've been this way a long time Jennifer Maybe that's why you're journey with Kate has been. I don't WanNa say easier than other people but that's the board that comes to mind when I also think due to the fact that I've had gone through I've been really involved with the care giving it wasn't just you know women often are the ones who carry that burden of caregiving. But I walked along with Kate in this with her parents and then I handled it largely with my parents. I think. All of that. That sensitized me the whole situation of illnesses and problems in trying to solve the problems. I am a planner I think I nature. I've mentioned Jennifer early that I have a little touch of OCD. And so I I like to know about things in the future. I've always thought of my own career was involved in market research and insurers particularly. I know that women are the ones largely are the focus focus of advertising in tourism. Women are the ones who largely plan vacations. My Wife's never plan anything related to ancient at all. Aw and we've had spectacular drip. Everyone plan so I don't know how I explained entirely wind. I am what I am but I do think it has been fortuitous in terms of the responsibilities that I presently have and makes it easier for me to do. You wouldn't need to do. Wow thank you for sharing that. Richard Jennifer. Do you want to touch on any other points about grief. What we haven't covered yet was? I've mentioned I'd say mom once a week after my rotary meeting on Mondays. It's it it's what works and I'm like Richard. I'm a planner you're Shift my plans easily. Sometimes it's not good. I mean I'm pretty flexible. But you know when when you look at your week. And it's structured in a certain way it's it's not easy to say. Well let me just juggle all this around and so I can see mom on a different day. That didn't start out. Frustrating for me. As I mentioned the visit we had a couple of weeks ago did not go well and I think a lot of it was because my day didn't start out great and I probably carried more of that with me than I should have the other day I was just thinking like what in the heck am I gonNa do with Monday afternoons when she's gone on and there's days when I think I'm so done with this you know it's so exhausting. Always trying to be happy and give her joy and even even though she's Hocutt every button that I've got in repeating herself in the you know the same word in the same place you know and then I think okay what. What am I gonNa do with myself on Monday afternoons? And it was really kind of an interesting thought experiment because I thought that's GonNa be really strange as much as I don't particularly enjoy visits. It's I don't dislike them. They're just very a hard to explain. I their their their job. I take her out to give her a change of scenery which is good for her and I try to give her joy. Because that's about all I can do mean. She can't participate in the activities. She doesn't communicate meal much anymore. Her you know her. Her language processing is is almost as bad now as her visual Israel processing. So it's it's very it's almost like taking a toddler to the park that the one that can't play and we just sit there and I'm having to find ways to find enjoyment like the other day. It was really nice. It's fall so so it's it's beautiful and you know the sunless warm. The breeze was cool. And she's watching the kids in after a little while I'm done watching the kids go on the slide so I just closed close. My eyes put my head back on the bench in. Listen to the birds and listen to the kids squeal and play and stuff and that helped a lot because if I'm just sitting there watching gene the kids like she's doing my brain is going round and round and round and round about the five hundred things I should be do home and really hate that part. So that's great that you a you just sat back and let nature surround you ruin enjoyed the sights and the sounds of Mother Nature. That's wonderful I just find it. I'm getting to the point to where I just admit commit myself more and to people around me it's like I'm useless when I get home from dealing with my mom even if it's an hour and a half two Hours my brain is so tired. It's it's interesting. His generally want a light snack at about four o'clock doc which is about the time I start leaving her in. I don't bring I've already bringing food with me to the meeting. So I'm not packing Giant picnic basket full of food. So I get home and I'm hungry and I'm tired and I always think well I'll respond to these emails or all the never happens. I come home. Read News articles. Read a book just lay on the watch the TV show or something just anything. My brain is just done and I'm just having to admit that I'm not any good on Monday evenings. The dementia journey ornate is not easy but Maybe we'll close with self-care talk a little bit about that because you know as were Experiencing and seeing this journey with our loved one with dementia and grieving. Along the way. You know it's important that we re take care of ourselves Richard would you like to. I share what what you do for yourself regarding self-care well I'd be happy to and I also I'm going to have to leave in a few you minutes so i. I will summarize quickly but I do. A lot of things I first of all I have read for longtime and I read I I exercise I read. I've been going for many years. I keep going I no longer go in the morning because I feel. I can't leave her so I had. That's why have a sitter three after Newsweek. Neighbors me to go to the Y.. For that in addition I walk and I walk in the neighborhood until about a little year ago. Oh and then I just felt. I couldn't leave Kate in the morning so I literally walk within the House for forty minutes every morning listening to my audio. Oh books so I listen to him. So the audiobooks end the exercise helped me in addition Music Time to say everything we have binged on music. I play music all the time and it goes from the time of just after listen to NPR in the morning. Then I turn on music music and it goes weaving go to bed with music playing at night in bar going and coming I've selected originally. I did this because of the panic. Thank attacks and anxiety eight with have I play start off with the Brahms Violin Concerto. The second move that an added Millis Tchaikovsky. And then now live just got tons of stuff that I play all the time. Some music has been really therapeutic for me. I continue to be involved. I've been a very active community volunteer volunteer both with our health foundation. served for nine years. Jared for two years I've been inactive with united way since since one thousand nine hundred eighty four and active with them right now so I meet with them Got Two different united way committees. I still all I don't I gave up. I used to teach a class at church. I gave that up a two years ago because a needed overtime kate and she can't it's ver- or to get up in the morning but I maintain contact with people we get out. We chose eight years ago forced to eat out for every meal and we have eating out of about six thousand times and that has enabled us. The food means essentially nothing. That's the FRILL. It's the social contact it's been criminally for us. It has kept us from being isolated. It's worked for Kate and his word for me for Kate involves involves short-term interactions that she can handle and they're usually one on one with a server or somebody some friend we see we always say friends are virtually every time we go out. We'll bump into somebody from the community that we know for our professions or from Church or from home voluntary organization. And those kind Eh. Interactions are great for her because she knows how to say read somebody. It's good to see you know who they are able to carry that off beautifully even now so so I've got a ton of stuff and I've got the people you know. We invite people outweigh. We've got friends in three different cities around here that we take day trips to to visit the early frequently some overnight trips still overnights the only kind of travel. I have a lot of things in keep me going. I like to be busy in his helped me tremendously. Wow thank you for sharing all of that wonderful examples and I think Jennifer. I know you'll agree. Richards given our listeners Some new ideas as well. You know there's a lot of you know wonderful by the way mentioned the blog of course twitter eating yes. That's what's what's the what's the web address of your blog. Richard It's H. T. t. p.. And then the under remember whether it's colon forward forward slash forward slash but is living with Alzheimer's. The key is it's not a W W DOT living with Alzheimer's Dot Com but it is just the http been living with Alzheimer's. I spoke AAC. Sure that's linked on the show notes awesome do ghoulish update do weekly or daily Richard. How often are you writing on your blog? That's a funny thing I tried right. I ride almost daily sometimes more often if I averaged more than one a day and that what's funny about that is I hate to write from what I really don't like it at all but I have felt a having started. It's funny I feel commitment and night. My unstated unstated goal is to have something by nine o'clock each morning and I find that more recently. That is harder for me to achieve. And I'm about to write a post I think for tomorrow saying a real successful assist. Was Gordon yesterday when I didn't have at all and I didn't feel bad about as part of my OCD Well that's wonderful. Gosh thank you well. I enjoyed being a guest today. Thank you for this Opportunity Jennifer. Thank you Richard it. It's great to spend time with you. Both it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you Jennifer thank you. You're welcome. Thanks for joining us at the last. Is it today eleven so much. I know bye-bye he's out. Okay do you want me to tell you about myself care okay. We're still recording. Oh okay mine's a little sympathy. Then turn your self care while I do go to the gym six days a week think that was started because I needed to improve. My health is a big family. History of diabetes on my Dad's side and I weighed at at least one hundred pounds more than I should've so I I went on a journey to find what worked to lose the wait and I am loath to to stop any of those things because I don't need to put it up. Put it back on or Chile. After I turned fifty I did gain about twenty pounds and almost fifty three. They still have to lose. Twenty pounds on the Jimmy Moving NUCCI. That's wonderful that's great. Yes when I find if like when my dad was on hospice in my morning morning routine would get disrupted with calls from the hospital or the hospice people. And if I couldn't go go to the gym or go out and ride my bike. And he was in the hospital in December of twenty sixteen. So I wasn't doing a lot of outdoor writing at that point. It's a little wet and cold I found if I didn't do my normal morning routine of exercising wasn't it was a lot harder to deal with what was going on. It was just like I needed to burn off the pre burnoff dress so the other thing. I'm I'm a lot like Richard. It's reading and exercising. which that's very interesting? I mean I've kind of gotten back into reading novels just mystery novels just nothing. Alzheimer's related related whatsoever. And I'm making it a goal to read at least fifteen or twenty minutes a day. which for me is nothing? But if I but because I've made the commitment to do it every day like last night I got in bed. I'm like really Kinda tired but I read for about twenty minutes and I'm like okay. I did and I think it helps me sleep better because it's kind of takes your mind off of the Alzheimer's that I spend my day thinking amount amount and then I'm also pretty creative so I try to do something creative either with cooking or craft or some home decorating decorating Kinda thing decorating for the holidays. So that that's the kind of stuff that fills me up. So you know you don't have to spend a ton of time. I am Rotarians a do do a lot of volunteering. I do volunteering to the Alzheimer's Association. So those are the things that helped fill me up and then of course I have this podcast. It's talked. I Ns FEM FUN PEOPLE OPS. We can't say it often enough that you can't poor hermit empty not cup and you can't forget about who you are as you know your assisting your loved one through their journey With dementia China or any other illness. And it's you know it's a tough. It's a tough lesson to learn. It's great to hear about all the things that you do John for an Ann Richards story story as well So grief is a big topic on glad to come on your show again sometime in the future to talk about it. it's it's complicated implicated And especially as we know. You know they they. They call Alzheimer's the long goodbye. So it is very unique in that. You know you you have to watch The person you love so much say goodbye over a long period of time and it's it breaks. Your heart doesn't the one thing that I find really interesting. Is You know like I said I'll be fifty three in a month. And my mom is almost seventy seven and her brain is broken. I mean obviously. He wasn't GonNa hit by a bus riding my bike. God forbid she's not going to outlive me. Jinxed Shelf right I find it very interesting that society kind of puts on you the well. I I need to do everything I can for my mom. Even though that you know like so many people especially women caregivers you know a lot of them. Give up working or give up working full-time and go part time or they give up a lot to take care of this person and there are days when I just have to remind myself that my life actually matters more because I'm the one and my sister and I. Hi We're the ones that are responsible for mom. Yes she's in a community that takes care of her but she's still our moms she's still our responsibility. You know. My sister's got kids at home so I think the world looks at her and says while it's okay if you do a little less because you've got these kids but my daughter's grown so I'm just supposed to devote everything to mom like. No no no. It's I find that interesting. I find it interesting that there's times when I feel like well I'm not doing enough. Which of course we talked about? That's high salt with them on my life and other days when it's like you know especially with You know I was we. You're talking yesterday on the phone. I've been having this battle with her doctors who just seem to think that I have nothing else to do but wait for them to give me instructions on what they WanNa do with her. Which is super frustrating? It's like the balance between providing as much as I can for her without out completely up any my entire life is really a challenge and I. I think that's really interesting. You're not alone. It's very very challenging being for many folks. So it's good that that we talk about it and find new ways of doing things and Just talk about our feelings. uh-huh yeah it's especially challenging for women Yeah and that I hope to that. You'll dedicate another feature podcast just to that Women in the workplace women in their forties fifties sixties etc.. You know what. That's what I need. One more idea you've got it doesn't and dozens is just yeah. I left the workforce to to assist. My family was taking care of my dad's so so yeah I could talk about that and I know I'm I'm not alone. There's there's many women who have and it's a big topic so Well I'll add list when I was out riding my bike on Monday. I I only have a limited amount of time on Monday mornings. So it's kind of a go out and do as many miles as they can on and the wind in the ninety minute window because then I gotta come home and shower dress and get ready to go to our rotary meeting and then from the rotary meeting. I go see mom. So it's that's the a that's the planning part of me it's like it's. There's not a lot of flexibility in there. It's like yes. I can ride the bike and I do these things but I can't spend two hours riding my bike but I took a different path just because I felt like it and I always Mondays is the only day ride solo in and all of these ideas were popping my head when I came home and my husband's like oh how's your ride and I grab a paper and a pen and they start writing down my man. The brain was going down these ideas in the ones that were hopping early in the ride or almost getting buried by the new ideas. I was like uh-huh have to start providing with a piece of paper in my bag or something so I got a bunch of ideas. It's like I do use the exercise to as time to kind of just let let my brain. I Dunno like free flow and just go where it needs to go which generally is in a more creative direction thankfully and yeah also got all these ideas for podcasts in. You're giving me ideas in so well we're getting closer to the beginning of your threes. That's good excellent will thank you for all. Oh you do to inform your listeners and it's it's wonderful to support Caregivers and care partners and families everyone who who is on this journey. You've shopped a lot of people during this time. So thank you for all that you do. It was great to talk to you today. Thank you for having me on as a guest. You're welcome and I'm sure we'll do this again. Thank you. Well Take Care while you've made it to the end of another episode. Thank you so much for joining me. If you found this episode helpful and informative please give us a five star rating and review on Apple. itunes this is how how do people will find us also be sure to follow us on social media. All of our accounts are linked in the show notes. And as always. I'll I will be in your ears again next Tuesday.

Kate Richard Richard Richard Jennifer Alzheimer US Ann Richards Richard It Alzheimer Mike Dad Richard CRICHTON Sarah producer Marie Turko Lawson Brin Texas Jason California Lisa facebook
RHLSTP Special - Ally and Sally Sloper

Richard Herring's Leicester Square Theatre Podcast

1:06:55 hr | Last month

RHLSTP Special - Ally and Sally Sloper

"Yeah. Oh, please welcome amend. Had Eight. Days, but none those Leros. About three weeks ago, that bridge herring welcome to. A very special well, actually, not very special. Wednesday night sought of. Brad's departure also have messed it up I welcome to chains lockdown a second time podcast. It looks like we'll be back to five nights a week me being drunk playing video games chance to the cavaliers venture Lucas Dummies look. Don't hang around with the cost of spinach to them Ryan speaking of which like. The most minimum wave and none of my sketches on I can that right now. old Grantham bug was that people very angry about the big popular even though they don't know what it is yet. I don't know what that is either might be rubbish. Who knows the might be offensive or not who knows stop getting offended by things that haven't happened yet. Anyway, they will call it. Powell, speaking trumpets and yes, we are here. This is not a Canon Sta Sta I have to tell you this is. By. Way. Of apologizing I've been here for the last two or three weeks have I We're trying to catch up we have a bit of backlog and so just trying to get a bit closer to broadcast. Also I'm quite lazy. I'm that was going to try and do what tonight, but I couldn't find to do it and. fucking all, get drunk. And have some time of keep waking up at four o'clock in the morning then unable to sleep. Ask Me this very gassy Babe So I thought taking my off been persuaded a my wife is doing drug looming solving crime de. So she's getting drunk doing a podcast. and be some of the nerds on twitter who have nothing else in their life me. my God if I die or who sent to prison as I. Deserve. Than they're ready GONNA. WE'RE GONNA lose a lot of people if you worse than the Osman's breaking up yes that's my reference. So I just started coming Dick around. We will do sort of hollister per roster. But I haven't spent any time writing any material having spent time apparently questions and it's not kind of all. It's not rain coming down. Can you hear it? That's ominous. Is Not coming. I don't think unless IT TURNS OUT TO BE A. which it might I'm drunk enough to believe that that could happen. In my APP. Then, we might put out the cost on Youtube Channel for either. So I think this is just for you and I tonight. So we can then head down. Let the rain come down. Hope The rain doesn't come in through the roof. And don't allow electric equipment equipment. And Yeah so we'll see how was going on the news the bad news. First of all, I have for you. Is that said Cheddar K.? Oh, now that's fine. Cheddar caves. That's the The ring of bells. Then that's the Swiss village I think if you look in the Water they're reflected in the water is the Swiss village. Of Alpine village, I should know I've worked Cheddar case for a long time. The Ring Bells is just whip this goths caver think. The stuff on the roof reflected in the water. It's all fake that think that whole bottom is fake i. mean you know there wasn't a pool there so it's been put that to highlight the stuff of the ring. A bell is a little bit further on someone broke for the venue bells, which was annoying, which is A. Line, it's a beautiful place Cheddar caves and it's because of covid and. General mismanagement think and because none of my Sitcom set in Cheddar Gorge of offs I feel like I'm partly to blame. I, fail if. If they've been successful I could have rejuvenated my hometown, my doctor hometown saved it all. And I'm gutted guide for Cheddar it's absolutely terrible news. This is funny about this. Try to think of anything funny back there going to write a Sitcom about. The management at the time of my caves, you I think that the two people in charge eventually were kind of Court. Stealing. Money I think like the manager would go down at lunchtime and this may not be completely true. But this is why I heard. With, a roll of last year's take include tickets and she would sell those in cash because it was like them people paid in cash for stuff she would pocket most of the money from the lunchtime, but you'd think. She's the manager caves. You wouldn't have been on a huge amount of money. You wouldn't think that extra amount of money would make a big difference when I was in charge of Jacob's ladder after say occasionally someone would come and pay fifty pickup Jacob's ladder rather than having the holding ticket like about once a week. And I would sometimes keep that fifty eight for myself a naw give them a ticket so I'm not blameless but I was I was. I was it was a much lower level fraud deny needed the fifty whether. The managers needed that three pound fifty or whatever they got for the whole five pounds it might have been an antenna. God knows what is now but it's very sad to see Cheddar caves go thank you Tom Makeup of providing that photograph. Though I haven't paid him for I. Think I think we'll. Just Acknowledged that he took that foce thank you Tom, and what other news got you. This is not my son. Ned this a funny picture I stole also stole off the Internet. This is my favorite thing that's happened. This week is my son has gained some self consciousness without any of this little tiny bit if he's on the party and during Apu do openly in full everywhere as children to He's twenty eight years old. I got that. Don't why I got that. He. If you look at. ME. Look at look which I love it. So it's a little bit of self consciousness he wants to not in private. Observe. And it's just not fair. Is it just as it's chipped away the enthusiasm the joy the world is just chipped chipped away the consciousness. It's a terrible terrible step in a human beings in life to become self conscious still happy to bend over and wipe his bum with a wet wipe. So you know it's not it's not all over. But he's a very happy go lucky. Self, conscious individual at the moment. Is. The first. sign. Of that, we'll get onto the guest free soon if you haven't if you don't know who I'm talking to. Very upset by Chen wookey hole still of course have call cities those fucking rookie. It's Lord bath it wouldn't have happened under load bath. It was eccentric. was. Great, Man Hayden. Heat. Supported the caves Up Two. Point. Looking at yeah it is actually a tangent please Sir catchphrases well, which is a poverty is like as well but I don't think he is aware of the reference that he's making and I will also just say that it's the Oh. That's that's a bit fuzzy there. That's right. You're home the snake stopped started incredibly. Well, this is always the way it goes with kick and we did do a month for this one. And we should have just two weeks 'cause it gets them in two weeks. If you do in two weeks, I, it stalled a little bit. It's just got over ten thousand pounds today his not going fast enough by any means. ROBUSTA CARDIAC UK slash kickstarter. And to see that I was going. As we speak, there's one hundred and eighty seven people is ten, thousand one, hundred, twenty, seven, we need to get the twenty thousand pounds to. Make those Bonani album, send them out. We are going to cover the cost of making all the stuff all the money we make from. This will be going to help save live comedy which. If the news is go by will desperately need saving I. Don't know how much we can do to save it, but we will probably donate. If we get there. It'll be only ten fifteen thousand pounds that to a venue to be very helpful to help pay their staff, pay their costs and get them through to the other side. People wanting to stickers, and he's a great rewards. I actually thought this would fly off the shelves and might make make us fifty grand and then I feel crossed the oath charity. So I'll be glad if only just makes it a twenty thousand feel so bad but it would be great if we could make more than twenty thousand but the moment we need to make twenty thousand in order to For any of this to happen? So that is the t shirt that's one of the t shirts. I Hate Donkey Teasha, which you could just get without any. Of Your family and hangs twitter from which you are given he's tonight's guests. On Ralston Crossover episode. That's the t shirt. If you pay quite a lot of money, you get a lot of stuff, but that's the extra and these all this stuff is exclusive to the kickstarter the panini albums, membership badges, the Little Federation of self playing sneaker, little badge these they won't be for sale anywhere else. So. If you answer them, snap them up. Let's see how much good that little pet touchdown nothing no one's now scum not not single. So we need to do like thousand pounds a day basically now more or less. So just a little bit under which is not impossible and it happened with the stone clearing At the end, people tend to get behind it, but if we can push it over fifteen. X Four or five days that would be a massive help. So please support that if you can. If you don't want to support that if you enjoy this twitch channel, I want me to do more on twitch. Then we need more subscribe Israeli we had quite high number it's gone down. FAIRMOUNT is still enough but the more people who subscribed the more if you just follow as well. And I don't really want to subscribe with money if you're an Amazon prime member, I'm if you can subscribe money. If. You're an Amazon prime member. It would be lovely if you used a free monthly subscription, gave it us every month or at least someone on twitch there's lots of people to support so. We are back next week with the proper one we have Michael Ian Black he's a fantastic American actor comedian writer. He's written a book. About Masculinity. Which I think. Is. Probably Choose a little bit with my own book the problem with men, which is coming out. On the fifth in Book Code. Book a book is, is Love Audio Week this week for you audio files, they you disgust me I don't think you deserve a day a week but if you look on twitter, there are a few very brief bits of me reading from that book going up at the moment, we might do a special event as we get closer to that day and for the three hundred cost, we are going to turn the tables and I'm going to be interviewed by somebody else about my book and about my career in life and that is coming up pretty soon. So next week Michael Ian Black you don't WanNa miss that he'll be live from America the week after that Stevie Martin what's from the jerk and Deadman Platt? Steve Martin from Steve, Martin's book club and twitchy fantastic twitch general very, very funny improvisational ational. Comedian I've been on her book, Group Club thing and very funny. And she doesn't. So this stuff as well and sketch groups and sorts of stuff. I think she's great. So I think you're going to enjoy that one JOHN CANS is coming up for his yearly appearance. Then, have him on twice last I think twice thus and It feels like I have to talk to him once a year from now on and Be. Slight route to a not really get to the meat of what we meant to be talking about. That feels like something that has to happen. I think he's one of the funniest men in the world I love talking to him the one we did in winchester which went out early this year I really think was one of the best drivers was ever. So I'm really glad he's GonNa be doing one gamble is going to be doing one and. The three hundred are going to be interviewed by John Robbins we're GONNA work out we worth trying to do it live. Then if that's going to happen, but we might do online, we might charge a small amount and raise money for charity. Over ourselves, you know, maybe we should start thinking about that with six more months. Of not being able to were coming up. For, live comedy array for anybody managed to survive this. We'll find that John Kansas promoting. Kopusovic fingers crossed that we my first question. To whether it's coming back. And we'll say, so look that's number three hundred. So I think that would take us up to us I think if that's If I'm right. Are Come I think those I, think. If we do those three before and then do John John. Robbins. Interviewing me on the twenty first of October or thereabouts I. think that will be the three hundred though I say. But. We've done about four hundred and twenty actually included the Edinburgh ones and there was specials that we might as well have. There's no different. So I don't know why we didn't number them as in the I felt the had to be the less worth it to have a number think. In the early days and then seven on tour and that flew out the window. So there's been one hundred at the Edinburgh fringe. And I think maybe nineteen specials so It's number three, hundred in name only but A. We'll do some especially with that and please do preorder my book. If you can be asked, that will be very nice Because some, then I can make some money hopefully. It'd be nice for a first for the first time. It'd be nice to make some money. So look guys you can join in the chat room with this. We're GONNA mess. I'm going to mess around my wife starting but later apparently. Our guest is was. Having Some Mayo guests for International Men's day month eating tap us. We're to chat bill and Ted's spokes Jenny afterwards after this but Gonna I'm. Going to be drunk. And I'm going to be, tied. We Watch. Ted's excellent adventure. We're GONNA go and see the new villain had. On Friday. So we thought we'd catch up now I, loved bill and Ted's excellent adventure was the first video I ever bought and I watched it on video. I didn't say that cinema. Back, in the one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, nine, hundred, ninety s used to read them, and then suddenly could buy them. What's exciting. grown man. It's less good than I thought it was buddy's still. It's still okay. I remember really love that big worry falls down the stairs and looks like he's been killed and then he's just four Nazi Lama. Tedious. This time I used to love that thing that was brilliantly postmodern. Breaking the fourth wall because it was ridiculous. Why did he fall at the Dharma and then hide then? It doesn't make any sense. Anyway look. I'm just killing time. This isn't real or this isn't going in this goes in out of the puck cost they will be very much as a not an unspecified episode. To Annoy people. Say went as cast me. Finishes will put this out as the FRY extra. Just to annoy people to have. This is what twitches like if you not if this is a custody, listen to podcast check twitch dot TV slash arcade herring I think it's Amazon gaming. Now with something I don't understand what's happened to this channel is it's push push me to the side because I'm not a Gamer except when I'm playing stupid and that's the game. And Yeah do come check it out follow me. You'll know when I'm coming online it's usually. Seven thirty on Mondays playing Snoop Care Eight o'clock on Wednesdays released for eight o'clock on Thursdays honey switching from. But there is often real surprise stone clear every now and again. So it's good to follow me at least to get that information when they bothered send out the notifications. And if we're backing down I'm sure we'll start doing a bit Morgan. So I'm always looking for new things to do. I. Think Allie Hang Switzer Fund. Is. Getting somewhere. We'll see. A big chunk. So I may be wrong. I'll probably I'm not reading my new book probably will do something around the burqas while do a few little events around the book, we might do a little kick start special was we did that with the last one and that kind of helped. So I might do something one day next week to try and push the kickstarter own. Maybe on Tuesday I don't know we might do something to allow my bill to do little bits of a book. Promo but I'm doing quite a few little bit of extra. So the audiobooks GonNa have a podcast with me and Deborah Frances White. Asked the green is going to read the? that. The tweets. And I'm going to respond to them the her in the book, and we might do some extras of those. I'm GonNa try the audiobook very good value. Just in case shops shocking when the book comes out, I do predates in the book that you'll be reading it during second lockdown. So I'm delighted with the way the news is going because that will prove me right. And make a prediction I made back in. May. Correct. Yeah. Out of screen show beyond house at some point. He's extremely good is just hanging in the balance of the guess right you know and. He's that insulting to suddenly have a week where I just took myself and my ventriloquist's dummy is that insulting to all the many very many? I haven't had on yet. Perhaps it is. But maybe if I got a little bit better at organizing myself, which I am now weeks ahead in terms of the guest. then. I just try to fill I've been drinking beer. It's all good I hope you're having a nice time this hundred and sixty six people in this room turn seventy. That's not a bad number. So thank very much tuning in. Let's Do this CIA, my guest. This week is best known for his appearance in. The Potassium Permanganate Extravaganza where the seven Raymond's seminal. Edinburgh fringe nine eight seven sketch show. only a very select group. You've got to see that show but I don't think the sketch Oh have any stronger than it was. When the seven Raymond's took to the summaries whole stage. About, twelve thirty PM. Wasn't the best time. Slot. An average ordinance of six. on the last day of our week run we. Went engaged a walnut gave couples one free ticket, and that was quite clever thing to do for young minds and We thought about thirty tickets from about sixty people. Try that. People if there's ever an Edinburgh fringe again, anyway please welcome place. Gentlemen. Alley he slowed. Oh. I'm a little drunk and inking at itself passive can help. These Guys. That ground doing. Valuable. Possible replacements if you don't behave so. Okay they're not. Very good. So loved thanks for guest only linking at it. Didn't say anything still linking the I'm. Taking. Bit Lately, I know I'm trying to get out of the way now likes the same is rich kid more at the way because we're not we're not doing adding airings twitter for are we not know own tells me. Being assigned as look at the news. Not, doing a sta you. Could these guys in the background? Is Up into Liam I. THINK IS EXPERTS, William Terry Ronald Reagan. Lie is don't need sitting in a row there I. Think this is a museum. where when the VENTRILOQUIST's dummies owners die? They send the dummies. Ought. They send them there. On the show just to sit on the shelf. In the name of the place, but there's a big venture because dummy. Museum and that's sort of like You know that either sarcophagus places where in it's the way you go underground and it's just leads people skull. This is the. This is the saw you die. I'll just end up sitting access I'm talking scare looking schoolboy don't look doney rather than doing stuff. Yeah. Maybe. Ties for. Possibly yeah. Unless we one hundred generations daughter I think might be interested in taking over. She's she likes drama and my son's very funny. You don't look they don't look. Ahead and other than the rocks. Ahead. So I'm drinking and I am usually all. It was it was in buffalo originally but now it's in the glass. And then Now in. Yeah, it was a this was well, I was drinking bud look good now. Yeah. But this is dinger. I this is the one. I was drinking is a narcotic quite liked it and I tried the alcoholic one and it's good. Talking just you're GonNa say something I was literally just drinking from a bottle that glass that would have been a perfect. Chip in and says. You allies accused new talking to you. You talk over me I don't have the talk. You gave me someone on Youtube that I didn't go the or just talk after you know they're wrong. You talk over me and it's irritating for the people at home. So let's just Great try and all try trying to dig up. Fair enough. So Ali, what do you remember of the nineteen eighty seven? I mean. There's something I don't really want to talk about. And maybe if we're GONNA talk about it, we talk about it right at the stock. Of the PUB COSTCO'S IT's like A. that. This is the kind of thing. Usually we do lots of panter. Then we get to this series story about the sexual assault and. That forty minute. Thornton after all an. Just. People on well. I don't know if you. Well you can say that to less there's less people here now than they were when we started so people have in. Hoping it's going to be a good guess found out is you and then And then got away. Well, actually I lost Richard. Loosen wonderful. Conversation between two wonderful raconteurs and grades. Well that's true. So what you remember the nine, eight, seven it wasn't even. It wasn't. It wasn't authored. You should you nancy you don't eat you. You've done. This humidity and some people to do the oxygen to you David Schneider. The Star of Michigan impossible. of He plays a train driver mission impossible Yeltsin new. He Yet sorry I. I was going to Harvard you a token. Yeah he m. He wanted to do did you He's the author of the the certainly used to end the. NYC Richard Canning and Jo insured. Some. There are some control Segel's the yeah. We don't of win a bit passionate that breath yet for us seven Ramos that we did carry on the different KOSS. The idea was to run is seven people. Who got together to accommodate for called Raymond so there was the seven to seven thirty Tony and that was the funniest thing in the entire sketch show. So you can imagine how funny just from. There were six of us as well. That was the additional joke, and then it was five since even funding when the five is, it was very shit. No one's denying them. Good you that was just as I was drinking. How did you do that? Today's ensure do the off the. A maybe. A. Flooding now there. Must be the rain must new mouth. So you do the sunny sketch. Got The. Collection porn appropriate. This scrapbook I kept. Off on an apartment couples fallen enough all sketches and drama did it Oxford's incredibly embarrassing and that's it. But some. In fact of literally just turn to the right pay straight away. This is the venture sketch written by me I used to sign My name as just a little I don't hold this up. I used to sign my name is official just dropped its. Little. Stuck in with south. Ever. Get in there. Lovely bits of fall out. There is I used to sign. My name is a little fish meaning herring. Derek don't remember that and there was a heckler play on my cosgrave. and. This is very interesting. Richard, this isn't really neat talking. Well, this is this is what your best known for. Being in the sketch. Maybe ten people saw. A. Very difficult to read. The faded hello, my name's Derek Oakley and I'm going to do an act, which is a bit of a first for the workshop of this. So this is. On this thing called doctor workshops is before. A ventriloquist act my interested in this amazing and hiding using. Oh, on the I'm getting with it. You interrupting me, stop and get. Into a highly meeting began with my grandfather. Gave me a couple of ventriloquist's dummies incidently dummies that Dole we use in the not of course, as you might throw a very silly person. So Dave was deliberately to be not funny. Okay. I'm being I'm winking at it. That's linking. I is now is that a yes. Something as well. Of course, I have my heroes Roger to coast he has one but naturally, my all time here is Keith Harrison absolute genius. So that was a little bit of student sarcasm there. I don't think any of that. Made it into the Edinburgh show version without any further ADO here's my act high kids. Have you seen my little Charlie I said, have you seen Ali I wanna way could be looks around tends to turn back to audience and in the same voice says I'm in the box so. This this is just the joke was I would do that terminating I'm in the box and I wouldn't even try and do a different voice on Nassar the actually you need to do different voice on you just talk because I thought it would freak people out if they knew you could really talk so. Not It doesn't. Using my skills should you know should I should've you should just done this. Well I thought it was super in breaking. and Ted breaking that four fallen by by doing. So Tobago turnaround. This is. This is our started as a comedian. So. You're not children. What did he say and I said I'm in the box. He said is in the box I wonder if you could mean this books, let's have a look and I opened the box. Areas the cheeky young wraps gallium come on. Eileen get out of the box and then hide behind the leader of the box and and say I want to come out of the box. Oh, come on no and I want to. Go to the boys and girls want to see you. So then I've got him out of the book, Santa Trevor An elite. And then they would say nothing this is terrible. This is terrible sketch. The thing I know you don't it very much. Don't really do much. Come on before you do. But before you save me, I, just want my nose. and. Then again, then it will go hello girls. How are you? Ali Ali says nothing that indicates that thing Oh I'm very well thank you how you that's. That's basically sketch would go and we we can do the whole thing. Nothing else is going on as. A consequence, all the papers disintegrate. What we've been through this week Hodan, I've just GonNa put this paper bag on my head for a seconds of in a position to put in a blog at Brag on my second and might cosgrove was a heckler in Guelph this shit every time. You somehow contrived to cover your mouth. So we can't see is moving on up admittedly it's very cunningly but nevertheless, this is a sham. So you think I'm treating in a word. Yes I do think cheating just absolutely brilliant. Well. What do you think of that and? Then you go to the hat trick so you. Well. If that's the way. It's going to be close my my touch ninety. We'll talk watch this and believe Hello Allie and then a voice from behind the curtain Hello Derek how you How you mustn't grumble there's some about there in the car and he's not even tithing properly look you can see a moving he's just shouting out. This is awful. I pay good Monday coming here. And I said I'll give you money if you come up here and he's Ed thanks very much in came up. Yes you're there is someone that but it's not like you think look at Sally. The bright that in fact is her she's been making both me and Allie talk but sally has over his mouth and then the Heckler says, look, she's hangovers her mouth as well. This shit. I mean, the heck was right in a way. Actually was right in a way. The heckler is right now. It's four now. So foreign upon. Happy days. So that was the sketch I leave. We did what Gee, what are you going just on the origin this down here. I mean it's no look. We're not gala anybody you not being I've still got to do the talking that. What's going on? It's fine alley. That's fine. So. All Star that year we had quite yet didn't we the? Air At least say didn't thumbing. Out Losing the US in what I was I remember I was scared about taking you inside lead to. Edinburgh because what? Event read simply one hundred years old at this point ninety something out a youngster. Tone the three, hundred the either from the habit late tonight. Yep. Well, well, we might get onto that later on but we stayed in the Masonic Lodge one that was crying. Concept the name of the other person because he's taken. Sanguine anymore. But that particular individual. Yeah. Shukri known I'd say you'll know Could say, well, that's true. There's no quoting against you. I've just been said you said, you say the Arkansas it's too early strictly know this person. Going to be trouble if he watches, this is legit riches you do evermore jealous said, the tiny doesn't as its name you'd think you'd be going around but not this way. You have until you suddenly died in the Gutteridge it doesn't think. The, Altar enjoys success unless you totally. I think that's true. It certainly would be the other way round. Who at if I were to become? Successful yet. So if you Say would just sit in your attic. Playing, the doll. In front of An increasingly children turn into. Nasty. Marriage it's gone down there very persistent people listening for that when they. Are they. Are they just a distant three, forty tuned into two minutes we're going to do now. Again, we'll never know listening we'll never find out about that. But yes, there was an incident shouldn't really the joys talk a lot I listen I'm looking at it. Yes. That's where he gets that. Don't if you're apologizing, don't do A. Winking ranking in the middle of it. You may well sit there with your mouth open was just as a guest. On Day One, the Richard. You have Sunday new. Did. I have fun. I think I was crying I was why was I crying myself to sleep? 'cause was tractions there was what? Those options and in the group Richard in. You'd have a nice tying, and then the really didn't like turned up and then. The girl you don't still legitimacy was in the it was a complicated system, right? Yeah I'd. I'd had a very brief fling with one other customers and the Kennedy Kennedy. And that didn't help. Help you lose your the dignity I mean yes. If this isn't meant to be going into all of that this meant look at your career on your life, and just we talked about that because that's what your best work. But obviously I was sad I was crying it was a stressful time. We were young. We are hopeful. We hope you'll will come and see our shows we would hunter we might be discovered Geld TV. Didn't work out that it didn't work out then but you know. Kafue, wish for Ali because it might come true early I wish to eighteen year old tweeden's would have a threesome of the calf what you wish will contribute. I hope it does country you might find it's not as good as you think also. Some pleasantly incestuous isn't that. So I get off on a terrorist look. Sodas No. damndest I'm. You're the third, the not wanting to see sisters. I'm not sure I am the perfect because of that. I don't want to see that. Makes me feel sad. From the elected deal savage it something like to National Dayton feels that we're not talking about masturbating because we've just gone to masturbating because of that. And I'm is inappropriate. I lost emergency questions. Let's just to try and get this out the way. Steve Bennett says my eighteen year old nephews up for Allie. What do you think Oh, one, hundred and twenty eight you're GonNa take you can get it. At, least the young young young young that's all. This isn't it Richard Young? I don't think it is I think you know the. The one thing about being with someone a little older. fifty-three. They've lived a life maybe their bodies. Warm. And they just WANNA sleep yeah. Yeah you're right young better Let's ask you around members to question what is your favorite direction unaccompanied sally genuine question isn't that. That's the first question. My either Dr. comfortable of a stupid talking question now is the say. Generally genuinely also these things that should I think they do you think the thing is us my guests have a great deal of respect for me why I've noticed a lot with a lot of guests we've had. I've had a lot of younger comedians on and off because what you? Because of that, because up trying to you know I'm supportive of the industry and that's Oh I've done quite a few. Of these young Comedians I'm was the first I'm never saw things happened two or three times that Zappa was only eat was. He said, he couldn't afford come to the show not give him an a free ticket. Oh, donkey younger that I'm just a great guy because if people can't afford to come to the show, I'll get them in. Nice that paid back so much. Like such a great guy on my podcast. I think a lot of these youngsters look up to me even the people who are the same generation me much than me. They kind of admire my persistence doing. So I don't know I think they. They'd mind me for keeping it real. Sad that you haven't done that well, and you now do show after. Not a dummy the wanted this is is credit because he's unlinking. I think I. Think I think it's not the biggest form. One thing I think I'm cool. And what is your favorite iteration on accomplish? Phaser. Condescension really was north I suppose it's a very. Obvious answer north everyone's well how come. They all nine hundred at north wherever the country's screwed. See another thing about these questions they do lead to some conversation when I didn't ever imagine be discussing compasses with rally. In custody off carpet. Alley, have you ever had a Wayne Kennedy Jacuzzi or non Hot Tub Jacuzzi is a brand name. not. Dinner. Jacuzzi, I wonder if you can guess Roy 'cause they didn't have jacuzzis when you young Richard Anita Tate the good. Energy cousy Deng. Let's. On barely holding it together. I'm not going to sit in a global doubling alter. What did this to eighteen year? Old Twins even rigid note let dying in the fall. Jacuzzi I'm not prepared to answer that question. How did you come the question? Why is all about? Winky is your question. Up Trumpeting. Jacuzzi. I. Think the point is I haven't. All your you don't. Know I don't know if I have I wasn't expecting the tape was returned on me like okay. I. Don't know if I have I think the reason I asked that question is because you're. Jacuzzi just thirty years now he's because when you watch the point. At the Jacuzzi, war flying around gun up your own everything in this. You know you might be sitting with other people and is a war also what you meant to be thinking. No usually rank. With. Other people afterwards when they've gone home. You discussed. The next question is, why don't you wash? I'd call. A. Lot Of. These questions. Vive. Let's try something else to the original emerged questions. There is the new one of our shops. This is available for gay, Foster Stripe Dot Com you can buy all three men's questions twenty pounds. That's pretty good. Value my friends. Why is the most inappropriate person? You've ever had a sex dream about Oh. Thank God. I told you I don't really do the only thing. I drink is drugs from the eighteen nineteen because the Sunday night head is NATO data not CONC-. See I can't sleep I always gone I am on. One Hundred Twenty eight is Sometimes I. Daydream a little bit dying. At that time leading out to this not coil. At least. Docks that I don't have sex dreams. Good I could dream don't want raise new world that would be what grave new upgrade three My answer that is weirdly TV's Kennedy. Even in the imaginary dreamscapes, we could not get aroused by cheat each other's mutually hideous bodies and slash personalities, and it was like stuffing a marshmallow into a letterbox but not a sexy. I remember that Dream I did have this extra about Kennedy. Yes. This is turning into sexy time. Sexy. Sexy. Times let's see if we can find one that isn't. His sexy question Yeah Anouk dog did the pardon should we talk about knee now I think we'll do some questions. because. It's nice. Were like having you here? Is. It's nice to knock ideas about fourth. Isn't it? You know if it's just me and my own? Is just. My own brain but with two. Of You might come up with something that none of spin off to somebody else and it wouldn't have happened if we weren't working together. Those true. Goodnight Sweetheart is an amazing but flawed Sitcom could you please give a five minute speech pointing out some of the floors? I think you've done nothing. Tyler is anything I can add to the many things you've said about this. Sitcom. except. Then took Tony's. Doing goodnight sweetheart the united up and you are Ventura only in the other reality. Yeah. Not. Somehow stocktake look. That good work. That could be good if you ever met. Nicholas. fucking ending on insurance live in box. Thoughts are that you seen Stewart Exciting realize at the time. No owned the guest gone the super, slow ned talk about him. I thought he did imprison dancer stuff they do. Well, you know you can be if we went to the police, he could be could have with the both of us can corroborate. So. You think I should go to the police station together. They will believe made. There as well and I can confirm that hundred percent happen I think if that happened they would have to take seriously, right? Yeah. So we could bring him down. We're thinking about. What is your favorite punchline? Oh well, I didn't get to do on the in your sketch. Something sleek. What's your? What's your favorite By mouth well. There's. Thought Nick ahead are the southern shown. I'm just scratching my face I saw. This the scratch. Scratch. What are we? Covering. Mouth. Well, I can come out because as you speak going. Through. On the origin, that's how clever you are. You can change. Your Voice? You're very you're very impressive. Dummy. My Favorite Punch line to joke is lemonade. What's in here? I like To make sure he's dead doesn't like that. Other, than the jags on a little drum. Cheeky knee. Maybe. Not after I'M I'm an linking at it. Should we get here as well. Can. You do that. Sorry out quickly, and then we can talk to both of you. About your origin stories together. Routes know how you met. That's the main thing can think of having does well. I guess we can talk. Well they will you please welcome she's best known for parents in. Is Raymond's potassium permanganate extravaganza came in for heavy is in Sunday's label agent. Hello. I. I'm a little. Here. Yes I both a little drunk. I did that I I know We try and say something very. Interested in the don't worry you're on the London on Houston and seeking oblique. Not, just leaking over the now come on. There's no need for that kind of. Innuendo in your end. Don't you start Sally I was trying to be sensible. Okay. I must say you'll math works much better than allies. And the Superior Normal HOLD ON A. I'm winking. Out of. Control time. Fair enough. So how did you guys meet and get together? That is the question that most people nights when I went on twitter today said, we'll interview inside. The question that most people. To. And when I say most people, one person was interested. Was could these Teachers. Around that could confuse me. Look at the data discrimination just talk. Talking to. US As the right thing to do. To me well. Richard. The item, they'd. Die. God you're my great grandmother was God. Well in in Banja Luka's Donnie towns. He created knee you need. He's Like you did you have a report on yet did he have an bowtie foreign about yet? Did he have red cheeks and a red nosed the red on the nose at come often was skin underneath if he did have all instances. Droop United yes. He did any navy navient, his invasion, his mouth gaping wide. Descending I'm going to say, yes, it was the little buttons on his and his wife did. was He excuse me. Just a Lola. WAS A. I know. This. Is a high something Jay was A. Out Herring as say gesturing granddad nuclear and his name Canadian there it should I've yet. Ended safe you should know as well because he created God. Just to set my interest second Thomas I think Thomas. Harry. You know you might never I'll made me died in nine, fifty, six of them. You can still know his name. Thomas I guess. A couple of drinks I can't. I can't remember. Okay. We sometimes how people forget the same thing so Sunday didn't even exist at this point. That's true. I didn't exist is in physical home. and. Then, and then your grand grand took. The is like Adeniji story this. God created knee Johnny rid. Read. To. Read took my. You Rib. Yup. And what I saying rate I mean, what would you say what? When I say? I mean. He took some initiatives leftover from they eight her and Peyton stuff saying the same thing and the. Concern The saints. Come from is it Real God? Is it real hair? I think it's on the is just had. Some victorians. Who, God. I never thought of that. Real have. I need slightly over. His looks like real. That's the. That's the dead hair Victorian. Is the head of the Dorian someone in timber taught in the chat room suggesting is people. You. Didn't granted uses. On the head yours. Than Sally looks like it might be real hair. I'm really thought that anyway didn't they need an innate. And to the NY Hausky their inflates sexual play thing and then he did. I think that's I think this. Is I. Love the fact you haven't lived up to your half of the Dow in is not my fault, and if you go to eat the apple from the tree and then you add to expand no less. than either it should Oh nice son did kill the son. They were twins as well. It's twin sons and that's now your obsession. Is. The whole thing killed the other side of that traumatic thing. Well, it's not courtyard and then Richard the DNC dyson netted nineteen ninety-two look into since do since you take another choose to become rob the early stroke the show though on the clearly the north hunted and. the. TROGIR sexier. Nor together, number of teen I still have the. And I have novels it's county said. What my novels such congress generally. Online novels back that doesn't take a look connote now. It's shut on. Then can you shut your mouth early? On Your own. That lives Richard It's to be hard to be honest you both questions. have got I guess your. Ability, even boxing dome, it's difficult for you guys to sit up we. fucking fifty minutes. Yeah. It's nice to do the tweet shelley. Nice to keep the twitter or go in. And do special content for the people who watch twitch. They turned forty, fifty, fifty people. that will be seen by the other people I. Didn't hear it 'cause. The your. That tens of thousands of people listened to Focus I. Tell. To the normal fetal I think they not stuck. That I think they'd still is. Air Disgust. I didn't I. Think this could the break into the big time into the Victorian. The Victorian this well, we'll see we'll see. Can I ask you some mercy questions sally local have you ever seen a ghost sally well? I have seen ghosts I think in a way of needing. Ghosts. In objects that come to life known explain how he sneak how he knew. It the on science, which it isn't science condoms don't can. You know if you really in line. And yet, if you look inside me, there's no organs are elected the No-go new gathering honey. There's no the thrones and here I am as animated as someone Luther headed up nutshells. So I'd go storage it is plays you are. Away. Just philosophically speaking. Sorry during you not really just. Just thinking about where my life scum there. Enough. philosophically speaking just when you mentioned philosophy and just anything I'll. Fuck. Is this it? This is it. This is as good as to get through you know. Did, I in a way I need Hans what you made by the handmaiden did well, every made here. They the gone here I still out. So. I not the ghost of the ovary granted Solo. And your grandma who made your Nancy in this? New. You tickle do replacements coke. Tony Distress. Because underneath it's the original. Original. Dress obviously decided to laugh there and a highly go away without having anything but this. Under I don't share them your ankles little shot of ankles. I know a couple of guys were shot off of that. there is another there's a Victorian dress. Gone Richard Reckless on your one day got begun to. Probably, thirty soon to go there, looking after yourself, I've couple of runs this news too little too late. Pandemonium. You, coffee is difficult. Another age. That's just unpleasant. I want I want drink a babe. I can't get man. Well, you know. I had seen a ghost I. The question I meant to ask you have you ever tried to set your own cock I don't need someone. Son. Any. groupies wife wanted every tried outright now. News. Ducks two straight. What has been lost on a to g sally. Thank you. I just wanted to talk to you about that those early days and what it was like, what was it like in one? Thousand, nine, hundred, it was it was it. was better than the now near. Should all. The is very ship and. You Lot of manage to thirty good thing. By ingredient and then to. Still. In your ninety s and fucking. In. Chimneys. Chimneys nights where they they were. Stuck Tuesday. Comforting. Hopping terrible time to the ally. Glad to see the world that. Even. If this thing that much worth it's got a couple of times, it has a couple times Saudi. True. It's just goes in cycles. The title takeover her. 'cause they're all mental. And good things will come to the forget about the good people. and. Go. To the Dad Tito Benchley all. Of the Earth though the used up and you'll all suffocate to death but. We'll still be here. Sitting. Waiting to Navy, into? This Well it's gone darker as as it should do the fifty six minute point. I'll put you down at satellite wanted to. Thank you. So you don't usually I'm not usually so. Dismissive of my guests but I just want to have a little bit more bay. Hasn't enjoyed the show has been good having you on Ali you know it's nice to have extra. We're doing show tomorrow. The. Elian, hangs up on. Eight o'clock on the same channel up TV's I talk hearing you take a look at the news and then I come in earlier in it. Comedy. Very. Funny I think he's funny. There's a whole host of characters, his holy horse. For example. I don't know what you're saying. Well, it'd be on there tomorrow I don't know. I'm not I'm not even sure Brian was going to be on tour. I know. The most unpopular character just literally a wasp I found on my desk and then incorporated into the show. It's amazing. We've managed to make that last for seven or eight weeks. Yeah I don't WanNa blow job from horse. CARE I don't care if you got special. COVID special offer five. Well, let's talk about after software. So. Yeah. So we'll be back tomorrow we'll be talking We'll be doing a twitter from. Going to, ever-more complex. GonNa to end in a song tomorrow only get some. And been working on the lyrics won't be nearly music behind it tomorrow and think we'll see my. All. Rufus t firefly says don't forget only rich and five puppets allowed together now that's true but we just we can sort of send them in and out of the room. Excuse me. This is very, very gassy beer. Don't forget about the kickstart. Let's see how that's going on the people who've been. Dashing there over the course of this hour to find out what's Where was it? Here it is. GonNa be the one, hundred, ninety backers now. Ten and a quarter thousand. That's not too. Ten days to go see what you can do my friends. Case kickstarter or go to kickstart common put in snooka newly L. pretty much pop up straightaway some lovely rewards there. I. Mean Look at this. Look at that beautiful t shirt. Almost. Pointed out there a fifteen red balls that which, of course, there aren't in self plain stupid their attempt. And I guess if we could afford to have lots of colors on that t ship, we could have made the. Herring ones. All the colors. White. Get a Green Blue Brown, Blue Pink Black. Miss this new chrome Monday was incredibly exciting He must tune into that. You might think nonsense it's Goodrich like you're in it sometimes you know and then sometimes I like it If. He wants the sneaky wouldn't really be hit. So. If you're with. Amazon prime especially. Go to Youtube might challenge that very look at the front page of this very brief. Description of how to link your accounts, the Amazon Prime Amazon gaming accounts, and to give his five pounds every month for no cost yourself it'd be lovely if you did that. The more the more twit stuff we can do in the next few last wish twitched affording. So that is the social contract I'm entering into with my fine friends. Hey. Look it's been lovely. Drink is anyone got A Question Valley in the chat room. Let's see. Let's see if that's before we go. Might as well incorporate the. Get into that not seeing much coming up for fifteen reds what Bush is this? To Good Question Stop Doing says Steve Byrne That's about. Where does where did you get your crazy ideas from? Concentration. I'M GONNA. Say Next. Talks I'm very. I'm very much the same. Prepare the funding Ram in some ways here all very low though Richard Very. Very. Low, the Law Da. Come as just nudging some jetted into your head. It talks it does feel like that. And if you feel like that and I feel like that. Does that mean could it mean? Do you think just a long line at ten nine. Then trump is dummies I mean could be could be. Time all the way up. And then we get back and we find the bottom venture dummies that she can trump. Let's see what else we've got in the chat room was invite. What would allies puppet sent to be you could have. You know the pump, the human sensory, the film that humans entry. Should I keep turns? if you could put three puppets in puppet centipede, which three puppets would depend a lot. So badly thought is because there's no theses in old. Effects on than is shit. So shits all do. TIKI. ME. That was good. That I'm not linking I all bullish it. Look I was worried about Keith Harrison in that sketch I did there's not any I to carry the name was a great man. He didn't just injure Chrysler done these daily Keith. That's that's not going into that Brumer about. Israel. Is. Now need to bring that up he's died. The rest in peace by Jimmy savile Jimmy. Several. Timpee. No. I'm not saying Jimmy. It'll. No. So he would be which. I'd have. Had Corey wholesome. Looking ni-nice. Five could. You seem to know the prices five rooming. For. Well from this soft Tom Number. Of Cloth horse it's Nice. When you pay the horror host paying modern money on an old victorian money guess Victorian towns it's not the. Fans now. Probably is. English pig doger's nookie the front cuddles in the back. Alley says Fan Twenty Twenty Alley Snug Mary Kill Donkey Brian and Hori horse our he killed lung kee I might do that anyway I would snug harbor health and drawing the West because he's already dead and so I could get all of this money in the in Israel. He's got much money. Yes. You do the. Various little entertain eastern on here tons of me. Will stop paying us. Right. So yes, look head to rouse. Case kickstarter if you want to help us with that kickstart that we might do some more content get going, it'd be lovely if we could hit that target because the money is going. You download I know I'm trying to hide in the picture. Its working. The money is going to help keep live comedy going not to us so. If. You feel like just making small donation to that if you would like to see the comedy clubs surviving be great. Hope you enjoyed this. Is. Been, writing. The. I mean killing donkey were being active kindnesses. Fuzzy Dunlop. She's that she I'm just guessing don't look too is a is a she for one I think is a guy let's say they They're right who would be. Donkey wants to help. Don't hate that donkey. No one likes the same phrase. Is Not saying, Hey, don't. Let them keep live at. A naked hell. That is what marriage is all about is finding someone. You don't really like and staying with them just to make them unhappy. said he didn't. Not Mine I mean eighty percent I would say in my marriage only twenty percent is. Trying to make each other's life help mostly, we're trying to make each other's lives. Good. Well. Let's do romantic thing to say and what to end the show should. Ladies and gentlemen. Thank you oldest catch wherever I don't even know the Nicholas. Parsons who made the only survived A few months. After each. Round I don't think he was connected Hundred and twenty eight years old I doubt we will beat that but I will aim to beat that myself. We have got Michael, Ian Black coming up next week we've got stevie Martin the week after we've got John Cans coming up the week after we go and gamble a few weeks I'm doing a special with John Robbins. I'll let you know more about that in which I will be the interview guest and that you talking to. The questions all these terrible the awful at that. Well, I've always had other people who do. You did. The rookie clothing and do. that. Well, hopefully, John won't be better. I think John Get some good stuff. So we'll be discussing my new book the problem with. which can preorder from wherever you get your books. Thanks for watching guys. Thanks for sticking with me through these difficult months. Thank you to everyone who's managed to grow subscribe every single month. That's just fucking insane. Do Subscribe if you can. I did buy. And K., slash kickstarter for the kickstarter we'll be back tomorrow with APM with Elian herrings twitter. Fun. I'm very much enjoying those I, hope you are too. The snoop on Mondays just been fantastic. AM genuinely fantastic. Just on, not even on the sarcastic level, the greatest sporting event I think you will ever seen your life and that's not hyperbole. Kids take, care and See Tomorrow if you feel like it spread the news, keep it Yourself I. Do Eli.

Sally I twitter Richard Edinburgh Ali Ali Youtube Raymond Allie Amazon Alley Ted Tony Distress Kennedy Kennedy VENTRILOQUIST Keith Harrison US Ned Jacob Richard It
Dating Coach to Business Coach - Richard Fletcher

QA Selling Online

47:01 min | 4 months ago

Dating Coach to Business Coach - Richard Fletcher

"Welcome QNA selling online with answers to questions about creating an online empire, promoting products or building a brand, your host private-label ecommerce. Entrepreneur Quinn, a more. Welcome to the show. My friends as guests on online coach help people get to clinique business within a week or two just by tweaking their social media over the last fifteen years he sold vast number of products online from physical products, Info Products, high ticket coaching programs, and he was eating a dating coach for man a took him nearly a decade from when he started first website, creating something that actually made money. This is something I. I know exactly that feeling and now after fifteen years of learning how to market effectively online Sarah offering his services as a business coach. Welcome Richard Fletcher, Richard Housing. ME, Hey, not I'M GONNA GO! Yeah, thanks! Man Pleasure having you Richard so added. There's many things that I want to ask you. Let's start I. Guess we'll start from the beginning. One, of your first businesses or side-hustle, not necessarily online. Just any of the first thing. I did actually I can add. After Traveling for year, all around the world was like twenty two. The came back was like. I don't know someone else's business. I sign no herbalife the. He Jones said of them Yeah, assigning them and I was like. A lot nightline like if you're if you're serious business, person in you want you WanNa make the money you're going to need sign on the super duper diamond level mega upon whatever which ended with like three thousand dollars with. That had to buy any disliked Saima parents. Gary Jones which I wasn't happy. We. Didn't sell any event and then six. That's taking That was because he was out of date spells. My first my first into business. Now since we're on since were your podcast is all about failing family? Frost will I've failed a law. It's is not send years. Man You before you start making money I know you said you identify as well the House the first line. It wasn't great for thank. Oh! Yes, I hear you man I started websites as I've been selling online I started part time, but it was in one, thousand, nine, hundred, Ninety, seven, I started and scenes were very differ. Did of course like you know? There was no youtube or nobody out there to teach US anything? And It was kind of less. Try it in work nope. Gauge Jacket. Ninety five percent email open vice. Yes, did you? have any of those experiences where you? You would try something just because you thought about it by yourself and then woodwork are not. Well. Most of the things that aid in the early days are still. Try Myself because I didn't really have anyone to. Never. Go wasn't like everywhere. You Look Business Coach East Eastern, including me, so it's it's not hard to find someone who's telling you about. People just kind of get behind the scenes. and it wasn't really a thing, wasn't it? Like the idea of all my multi La everyone knows the idea of moneyline nowadays, even know where I come from still kind of waiting usual level. Able that no one was really doing this. I. Two five started website called the trouble monkey, which was aimed at because I said it went on the wheelchair to backpack as he wanted to do that. I will trip like how to get around the world how to get cheap sold round the world tickets and out to avoid being scattered in various places, there will always ally also so often. Feedback on me. I just felt tailhook. Women's like fifteen, hundred unique among which was pretty cool. people download in a guide, which is the free, and you'll obviously really helpful thanks, but couldn't figure out what monetize it. I, just had an affiliate link to like some backpacks Amazon, a couple of other things on sold woman backpack, five eighty dollars the of three dollars. Physical products you can evoke where you get seventy five percents and that was off to six months of outside a coffee house. Make any money out of it so close down now, a bucket up Kwena the micheals. Damn could be like tripadvisor mean. Man That would have been something probably right that by now? Around the same time. I don't know if it was. Maybe? Oh, Smitty, two thousand seven. I had a video site that you probably most people in North America never heard about it, but in the UK. I was getting nine hundred thousand unique visitors per month. While because I ranked number one for the keyword rude tube. And route two was a TV show in the UK. I ended up. In them in North America nobody nobody ever heard about that, so nobody was search it, but I would get ninety thousand searches or unique visitors for that keyword cy sanded. Guinea videos from the show, and I was actually putting them almost my side. On purpose so. while. Yeah ended up of a Google removed vm the absence from that. I can get money from Google, so it had to be affiliates, but anyway that was. Another another way. Well. so-called failing look at look at the number, things have been a probably like ninety percent. It might be higher. You know as any I don't know I. Don't know what like Oh. We'll stage. Most of ulysses beginnings of. The whole spectrum now we'll Listener got on your show. On I two podcasts in there actually pretty difference audiences in the fell fastball cast are as a more mature audience. In of course, just like on most of most of the podcast, it's a sixty percent male audience. In majority of those are. Already in business, Ryan Okay Yeah. My my other podcast is a Lines of you know a sudden on. Amazon, and ECOMMERCE SMARI commerce in. Focus with Amazon and the highest percentage of people are trying to get into business. The. Most ulysses of ODI got some businesses on description even if he's not mega money, I think. You see I don't think you can overestimate the amount of personal growth required, and how difficult is just to get to that point while you make an even Wong all on your own is really really quite difficult. The so many people posting special facebook model. Still eating these days, anybody's making any money. There's very few people who actually make money out there I was trying to best for you. Look in facebook groups on knock off facebook, rape, cold, magic soulful I'm obscene on like full thousand peak the NAPA. Know most of the people now trying to make it, they're ready. Yet it, unfortunately, I don't know if you if you noticed that. There's so many people that are sharing their successes. And they're not sharing the failures. In unfortunately, the successes that we see as a gross sales does not mean anything right grow sales. You know doesn't mean that the people. Are Making any, money. click. I clicked funnels to comical award like you made a million dollars. If you click from those, but he didn't say how much you spending appetizing to get like spent two million made a million bucks. You've obviously plaque on you all right? Well, okay? Absolutely? I know that for Senate online I know that for example doing a launch we can. We can generate a lot of money very quickly. Let's say first month month one but a just. A few weeks ago I was doing. I was invited to a talk here at a for Amazon. Sellers Group People were asking logging May. Of course I don't want to tell everybody my numbers, but a show that the launch and we were doing thirty five grand. A month one of launching a product. And some people thought it was amazing, but I told them just so you know we have spent forty five so far doing this launch. Right so it's it looks beautiful, but the reality is. We spent forty five to generate thirty. Five of course were planning on going to get it back in the future but I. if I share, a screen shot that people are GonNa think it's easy. It's Yacky is great. You're honest about see. Though because most people would just be like. Hey, look thirty five. RUN IN I won't sign up to my calls nine nine seven Golez. You'll secrets. Secrets. You spent forty five candidates in sounds good then this. That's the secret. So, here's one thing I don't know. Said you used to be a one point the dating coach who and what exactly is a dating coach? countries, but what I did was specifically. My malky was like intelligent guys. He had some Korean talking like you know loses. WHO WITH NO JOB? Who No prospects who just like sponge off of parents I might show kind of guy who like. To offer. Want to help who had like a steeple on themselves across the right way, and they come across, not because like so shy awkward. There will be a vegetable, the guy who gets looking friends. So I would help those guys present cells in the right way so they can meet kind of woman who wanted to be with, and then we'll. Let Nature can the rest of us. Some guys up some good success stories within a couple of weeks I. One guy is Great. You know and they'll say you know. He's living life now. Women any thanks is on a great time with it, and before on the Israeli struggling so yeah, a few people at. A busy told him I think a lot of coaching is about. Silly for me is like coaching former versions of yourself like whatever problem you have to figure out on your own life, you then Kinda. Go Oh to. Go full hurdles and novelty to people council overdose hurdles quicker than I. Did I mean that's why business coaching those like is taking me over decades gets the point well. Make any money I can show other people how they can get. Not Spend the decade. No. They. A lot of people think that you'd spend six months together is I don't know six months signals no thin if you got if you've got that making money from now from nothing in six most time. That would be amazing. Yes yes I. I realized that approach, and it's so true that. Date is different than when we started. Things are more available, so there's a lot more resources. People can learn faster in of course they can. Probably are more than likely. Don't need ten years to to get to something. Is going to be successful. The fact that what you did not sense. You're not sense, but also is a lot more robust information, so it's hard Hodson is harder to find that goodstuff slide a needle and haystack kind of scenario isn't it is back in the old days? Information will nowadays you get someone who does like? The digital marketing calls to take like two hours over by. footsie dollar evoke about these locks in, and then they'd send many clubs as a business coach after that, so if you will if you'll run your business and you don't know it, is we not someone? Sony's actually talking sense. You sign up without you're GONNA, waste, time and money, so I kind of feel for the people who are like absolutely Guinness, who who stays really difficulties mind choke on unsecured. Absolutely absolutely agree with that because I feel like what you said that because you lived it now you have the experience and. So many coaches, or what would you call the guy? The launches a course with limited knowledge, but now they start making a Lotta money from the course itself because the content is out there in all you have to do is get somebody else's content than launch course. and. Every day now the stories are just yesterday I was homeless and now I'm I'm making millions and I hear them in. Of course there's there's a lot of those stories that are true, but if you were homeless yesterday and you are negative, hundred fifty grand. Today Idell. You have a million in the bank. There's no such thing. As a standard copywriting facebook formulate out of I used to be a big worthless loser who slept in a sewer and routes for breakfast until one day one day. I just you know they won't secrets online thing now I make a made one, hundred, twenty, three, thousand, nine, hundred six dollars and seventy six cents because I saw once told me as that number is not believable. One of these. yet salutes is an edmonds company. One at one of the things that I think really important his like I teach principles as in the principles of marketing water is the for example facebook going facebook stayed. That has a billion people. It doesn't matter what you do. Your fitness coach who business coaches spiritual coach you got competition and you a bunch of a people who are also saying. Hey, if you WANNA learn how to achieve and license like the Buddhist monks whatever. No joy my system will, if it's like another ten people in your face, the same thing today it all blows into like five years ago, but might have been a great post today. Who's everyone's company knows? What was a good post? Even lusty ceases to be a bit post today. so you to the principles of Walton is. What today is GonNa? Make people stop in their tracks and go. Oh, what was he saying that? I'M GONNA culminating reels in kind of slowly and make some kind of read every word it makes them want to take action to make some good. You know even though of red like fifty posted A. Nonsense would for some reason actress guy on his psychology principles go into that even a simple two hundred. Where Post it seems really basic is a lot that goes into that both foolish, because most people will think we're lazy and frankly some I you know we all have kind of like laziness chain, where if is a Shoko will take it. Will they ever was? Couldn't pay MAGIC POSTER IS GONNA sell hundred percents of no the people who read it or whatever and it's just. Voice I even if you could get your hands on now, he's not gonNA work in six months time. Because everyone's GonNa find is using good example on facebook. engagement wise. The six to nine months ago, a postel seen all the time walls. What's the most Djing thing in your business? ingredients that was getting lose engagement now guess, hold any policies because everybody's doing it on now. You see that and he said going Oh, I'm going to respond today. She kind of Rowley Rise Ho. It's another business coach doing that thing where they're trying to get engagement trying to get audience to tell them while the problem is because the convoy figuring out sells Chicago. Sells on the tribal. What we're really trying to get some leads it, so it can then private messages people. Oh, you don't get any leads well. Let me tell you. My sister like I. Know What's going to happen to you so I'm not gonNA full for it. will people don't realize if I take a cool so with ninety six months ago. It says this is kind of post. They'll copy and paste well. You know why. Man I ever you love what you said you know. One of the posts that used to infuriate me was a when somebody will put in the Syndey. Somebody will post something. A ton of my of people might list post exactly the same one and it would be. pineapple belongs on. Pizza proved me wrong. I, you know what I do. I either unfriendly the person. Or if it is something that actually is somebody that actually don't want on friend I would follow so I will never see a notification from them again because. It's I it's ridiculous. Want some nice quest, but that just proves the point it. Six months ago you be, you can be you probably going to that. This is easy to see us. Go on your phone quickly. You, can you like? That's the most disgusting thing I've only got kind of just browsing with it so characteristics of the post. It's about the free things that they could engage with that. Almost guaranteeing Asia, which comes with. Those things I'll trade after I was talking about principles. Those things are true, and there will always be true like you know if we had this. Is Somehow legal. cryogenically frozen came back in a million years time. Those things will still be to about humans. Will the thing about the exact post would not be different. Though be the same site debut different thing we would have moved on the words. Different principles will be the same Because obviously you saw post about pineapple I always interested in this is fun event. The tenth president is not as fun anymore Was Oxide goes free. Principles of what makes good engaging post. You can go into is now if they won't try. Okay and Do you one of mentioned those? What are they? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll tell tale of. Things, no matter. If you ask generally is a question. You must give your audience, so let's say facebook Moscow a question. About, banning bite, she audience wants to simple, will the three characteristics of the question on the wall. It has to be easy to answer, so if I'm scrolling on the phone. If you ask me like what are the seven most difficult things about achieving license? I'm going to be like crew fan I'm not sure about that one. Let me come back to that and I won't come back to it. But if you ask a simple question like ketchup, does he belong in or out of the fridge? His time in the fridge around the fridge on phone carry-ons Golan would I can leave a longer around. See if I want to have multiple sounded, so you'RE GONNA. Gays mostly dances. We might interface outrage especially if you go wall fridge to out the rich, you've got people talking one tape. Secondly. He's got to be universal or closer universal across your audience as possible so again. If you like, you know also most annoying thing about traveling to the moon will not not many people in your audience who's like been up into space rocket? So you're not gonNA get much engagement. Silly example, a lot of people doing this like really specific like really specific questions that very few people only it's going to be able to answer. So if you mcinnis. Universal Universe expenses that we all have as human beings, you get more people funding and the third one, which also is to appeal to ego. So if you question the makes me feel like I'm better or smarter or more attractive or any kind of positive trait where I can see myself as being better than another person. Then I'm more likely to unsuccess- humans over we to pretend. We're all enlightened, and you know we we don't. We like you know I don't care about that. Human beings animals, and we'll strive to stay just all the time, so that's why. Did a video. My Mike's missile physical. These three things on a gave an example of the post facilities, which is what's the most annoying the most annoying thing you see Jim so now? Most people go to gym will happening to Jim Experience of Jin It's easy to answer because you know I. Think my might now. No people didn't kill Scott Rockall Full seventeen year, who had taken up the WOM- bench I want, and it will set texting vanilla instead of doing exercise Gus annoying all the Swazi buses leave like a pool of driven down the bench and. You can think lows of He's dead. He's he's. with the opinion to ego thing is almost anything thing well, when answer it. I'm ultimate scheme plying these idiots are doing this and I'm not because I'm in awe so I get to feel like I'm small, so unwise of invested in these people in the process was what a lot of people do is they ask that question will also thing you'll struggling. Most within this area will in order wants to the wall some struggling with question. I've gotta take a hit to my ego. I've gotTA admit on a Public Forum that I'm doing something wrong, but. Failed in simple my on stupid. the I'm probably most it in the past the question is that like obviously coaching area. I don't want to do a lot still, so you see. If you see any of those questions, generally, they will have fewer comments in the woman's ally. No, tell me away which you very smart basically. Said No. It doesn't have to be like Walsum snowing. Thing about a wise associated not be negative, even something like. Anytime I post. my older will. Q. Is getting a million gmi audible cue. Can you recommend some good business audiobooks to stock up on? A routine, the sixty seventy comments on that without involvement every almost feel. Like Oh. I've? Heard of grow rich. I'm like thanks. Never had Alemi full. Wow, amazing, seven habits of highly effective people brilliance. Hour workweek. and. Where did you get these books? Wow, you must. Tyler Tilapia. Series fifty bucks a week amazing. Animals to almost it's the same reason people like quiz shows. They WANNA feel small. You want to fill out that go beyond so if you appeal to get the engagements, obviously engaging doesn't sell. Anything is a starting point. If you WANNA stop trump market yourself online organically, we self say well I teach. And I guess there's so much competition limit comes to coaching They're like you said it on facebook. You can see coaches everywhere, and everybody's trying to get some engagement, so they can get. Bill the falling right. You need to build a wall wing, so you're known. Because people buy from the ones day, no love and trust, so you are a successful coach now, but you started with. You're doing one on one coaching. Was it for five hundred bucks? And now you are a different level where. You actually have your eight week course there a six week course six. Yes six, we six dollars. Can US dollars so yes a big transition? Point any level four or five years ago, I was doing one on one coaching inn, dating five hundred dollars a month. Which I vote was quite good at time. Because he knows now. Awake, innovative spoil messages on obviously great woven. A discussion about how to coaching, which is still a relatively new thing by then. On a of George. Create. We calls for five thousand. which you know, instant pay rice. Well, what was really interesting was. within five days, which was like Oh my God. If I blew my mind, as would pay dot, which was great for confidence I think you have headline. The first fifty conversations go south on my. I'm what we might not be conversation now. Coin well yes. Oh, settled saw the. Amazing, but what was even more amazing to me. Is a I became a much better coach overnight. Though because I learned to anymore those because. The people took me so much more seriously like I'm paying this guy five grounds. He must be really good so I'm going to do. I says plus up paintings guy five grand ability. We'll get a result. So, they just more seriously when I say go out, and do they still save? As will do whatever they will go and do guys before onto a bit like a bit like. Old Toes in the in the culpable oil, a little bit cold. I'M NOT GONNA. Jump in no I'm not invested enough or if I had if you had like you know it's GonNa take. Say, five, Grondahl him, said you don't sparkled you jump in well. They're gonNA jump strikes in kind of what it was like the my guys. So. This is online course. What kind of for what kind of platform is it on? a quick funnels now new I've moved a lot. Say My word for science of. Amendments area on the website. so they get weekly weekly videos with exercises from complaints about the main point about is one on one support for me. because I think a big. Madonna? Maybe you can tell your experience with all my calls show. You've done all. Of the is. One of the things that always me about causes. You get information, but no one ever seems to be able to make it relevant to you. I'm like a will take. Information Might WanNa. sympathises about make sense of that, so the concrete landing page and be like. I feel like I've taken what we said. It looks crap like. Over something not quite right, severity or people signing up I. Don't know why there's no one gives the pool so a kind of take what they need to know. Make okay for your business, he. He's what you need to do right now. when she's when we talk about stunned Macron, that's one of the main selling points program because you can take programs like you know seven eight nine ten cable all you get in his limited support in someone's facebook group where you ask a question for these lights get like a one word response. Response one-sentence response. Just no is not enough when you're trying to, and it's not. The response doesn't come from the person that you were hoping. Come from income other student that is giving you his guests, their best blind. Helping the blind is like a lot of people don't know what they're doing. People signed up Oh what I would do this well. I didn't pay to get someone else's help. Pay To get the main persons help who is nowhere to be seen a lot of calls is doing that right now which is. Now a casino, why do because a lot of people got one on one? And then they go? Okay can scale so far with one on one then he will program instead, so they can any scale with a group program, and then he gets the point where they go well. Sony people not call spoiler. Self, get some hired guns into help me out, and then they separate themselves from a process which is fine from a business point of view into the scaling, but I have not seen a program yet. where? Quality of the program itself has not gone down as a result of happening. In my opinion, at least show, some people would disagree with that US why I'm not a lot of people sitting on me. You could be making a hell of a lot more money. no one you could be making like five. Something a scaled up and you've got. These coaches needed a lot like I know there's another theory behind it, but I haven't figured out a way to quality the program so. I am. So when you offer the this this one to one of course you doing remotely. Is it something like skype zoom, or in what kind of time do they have to be with you? Because I know that could be people that abuse your time while others don't have so much. One on one. Generally I mean I. Always have a call with people before signed him up and. The main reason is my point of view is fissile. figure out will help especially in the second one I do like him. I like you know you kind of? Sometimes announced to get it wrong, but say you know. Pumping more than nine times out of ten. Ninety five times that one hundred outside the. From a full seaman, also chat with figure out whether I'm going to like him on on Nancy's Massey tested me. Would I be willing to sit and have a beer in with this guy one on one of his obvious lady, one on one like a couple of hours, and how the chats note about business is about you know as I know a in a friendly capacity, and if the answer is no generally bonds the program. A lot of time with that also means a people. These people tend to be like, but not that Kinda person where Jenny people sign up. On sorry I, sent you too many questions. You know it. Don't be bothering. You and I'm like no, no, it's fine, you can. What you pay me for the kind of person who's naturally respectful, enough kind of ways. Signing I. I. See how much can get out to them a snow to be working with, so it's not. It's not generally a problem what to find. Support seems to be from loaded, so don't say oh. We get one call a week. Genuine fiscal weeks. People got a lot to learn They need to speak to me more often as sending me messages on Messenger all day long responding, but Africa weeks it kind of got it in the neatest just now and again, Messagero Ness so rav and say Oh, you get one call a week. You kind of get support UNIDO films. And then we can tie off It also means if people WANNA go faster and do the program in less time. They can do as well. And is that what you call the magic sauce? No I mean. The magic sauce is a name came up with. When I was inventing a facebook group? About what? Why call Wall do you do? How do you stand out from the crowd? So we told about you know even if you like an enlightenment code is still like a bunch of your fitness country business coach, wealth forget it is billion of fitness coaches outlet. You can just be like. Oh I'M GONNA. Get you in shape. You have to have something that goes okay. How is this person different to the over billion people for not? If you can demonstrate how you'll difference in a believable way. What people go to Noah? Even the even don't. All to find diets of US ten years and. The best is happening blew away and put it back on again. This time I believe it's different. That's the magic sauce what goes into that to make a pest and belief who, despite the failed so many times before this time his work. Okay, So you've had. From the people that you train or coach there, there's been some success stories right there's. A. Story about the pancake we got. K. we a yeah, a few of. Those photographer who I mean generally most of the other coaches these days, but a was a photography came to me. It was like I'm not signed by many people. and. Make more money, so we went into his offer on. He's a wedding photographer who specializes in pre wedding shoot so if you hit a pre wedding shoot, so they're thinking Canada pre wedding Yes! Yes, I know I know. I I haven't been in one, but I know I. Know they're yeah. I'm not yet I. still really thing in the UK either tickets falls on the way. What he's from, he's like Off Japanese Hall New Zealand's. Sitting Asians who kinds of Korean or Japanese. Now, he specialized in these pre, wasn't you so find like fairly rich couples, six towel from a wedding with flying from Japan or Korea weather flying into Queenstown new. Zealand, we know well known holiday destination like Mouth Mountain senior, whatever that combet higher wedding, dress and seat when the day. and then to get dressed to be flying them up amounting and alley. Call to a champagne is Satan mouths remote locations in like Nobili Cenex take lots of really kind of fuzzy pictures of him. return a dress about to. Than they fly home again and it really found Scholz six months out from a wedding, GonNa. GET MARRIED IN TOKYO A. Will, now have only shots amounts to survive out. I really cool, so he's pre wedding. Thing is like quite a thing. It's like these people find in. Charge now. He's got fifteen hundred dollars a day. which sounds good, doesn't it? Oh, he's not. A helicopter ride in not. Always expenses installed quickly also as I will also most expensive pre wedding Charges has ten grand a day ago. What are they doing? Indefinite goes well. No Laurean they've got slightly bigger. Drones of an IRA send opening takes over fancy pitches. Could one of those okay, so it's not intended pitch result isn't all difference. No, not really okay. So You can do what he's going to require big bras. You're you're? GonNa need to be brave about this on. It might not. It might be for everybody. Do you want to hear any goes? Okay, GOLDEN! What is it a said? We said. We change the main page and you'll size. We sell a separate. You just want page the space. I am the most expensive wedding photographer in Queenstown New Zealand. On. There's a good reason to VAT dot dot dot. Then, we the rest of the page, showing some some shots now these worse because he's a brilliant talked with allies face. Folks are amazing unbelievable, but also you know when you see the photo. He's not like I just took like a crappy night. Show with my iphone like what the Hell's. Is Actually looks good. Russell copy basic took through got if why he's most expensive. why anyone who's anyone who is interesting getting the very best? The premium option would be mad to choose anyone but him Why did is a about means a Bobby Knight. Center the mock, not interested in because they won't be option, but the ones who wanna call him the Valentino shop as a woman Makuuchi really fancy photos. It's like I will I not only do I won't fancy photos. I want to be able to tell my friends francie photos. I to say to them I Spent Fifteen K on my wedding day because you know him on the wedding day on the pre one issue, because safer one day I said fifteen calendar twenty. You know why because we don't mess around me comes. We still is a wedding in these two impulses. You know the people want to script and save over people. WanNa mess around and they'll take the cheap option muscle to them We do things properly around here and they can kind of tell stories again again, appealing to ego before. Engaging posts, they get to feel that. That's all of people who can't afford it So you feeling, talking whilst gray is. Well, he's now. How about a year ago? He's now and he's raising prices. Gatherings Jogging Twenty K now. He's still going to go up against these. Conduit all he's now hiring staff to help them out is absolutely ridiculous. and he's slight. This same service, but his perception and Now everyone in the Mo-. Every market I believe has these volunteer shop is in the opportunity to reach them, but the problem is because people like Ono's GonNa pay that no one's GonNa, pay me three to do a fitness coach thing. A normal gym. Normal? Personal trainer charges lying no twenty five dollars an hour well. Celebrities and how much is the celebrity painted? Penetrate five dollars an hour. rich CEO's they going through some like cheap twenty five an hour, pestle training a local gym find Olduvai a different angle go. What is the best personal trainer around? I'm not interested in the price. Who's the best one? Okay? Hundred dollars an hour off, we go. It's a different kind of conversation. That's what he finds with. The people come up to now. They hardly ever talk about price intellectually okay, so a solo bull on you on your block with the the champagne going up the mountain How do we? Got Can we get a Bentley to? Apple these are the kind of questions of Ruskin is not like only if you would you be able to knock a hundred dollars off plays. We could really use that money it's like. You can, you can have the bent label is GonNa not the price to twenty k kind of A. Victimless It Oh that that's so incredible, because the the bigger the bigger the customer, the bigger the budget. The more appealing. Those pictures are going to be to other people's a eagle, so so by doing now that he is automatically making more money, but also growing is exposure because those pictures become more sharable right by Rony, the pictures are your Rolls Royce on top of a mountain, being dropped by now a cop or something I mean those are sharing. Rolls Royce inside a helicopter amounting. Yeah. So, that's kind of like James Bond kind of south in Malaysia. People would want to see that, and then they're going to see with a photographer. That was that did those special shots in? Eagle is here is what's at player Roy, as people want to feed it in they want to. I mean it's appearances. They want others to know that they spend it so I mean what a great technique that is. It's that simple as well. One of those things go, you could have changed. His could changes overnight and make a lot of money. You know I'll. Pay You will see if it works I. Can we go back to the old page if he does into? Now when he gets his first inquiry into these like messaging called ongoing almost messaging online, okay going to invent, and now he's signed. Is, is I think he. Got To deploy felt nervous because he's like they just fifteen k. I will be going to expect. It's not just like normal if anything, they treats him better because he's kind of photography. Who Come on Fifteen K C? Missile guy around, because if you mess around, he tells you to get lost now. You've got to go for the cheap one. Absolutely have to be extra nice to him, he's. On the celebrity photographer, so you must meet rounds at least. One hundred, these me around these a lot cheek. Guys! You don't go to them. Is A he gets? He gets kind of welker fees. He's he goes willing to away. Test that with a one of the business that I have a physical business. What's Sorry to Guy Kitchen cabinet business, and we've made it. We had this discussion. Once of WHO DO WE WANNA be the WE WANT TO BE? The Kia of kitchen. Cabinets are which is. Sorry the key is one of the exists A. WE mentioned in terms of cars. We want to be the Ferrari of kitchen. Or the high on Day of its cabinets. And we decided with utter doing the the we measured analysis, and all that and we figured that it would be. Almost four times less the number of customers that we would get, but at of four times less customs, we would make exactly the same amount of money. So you can instead of four customers. You can get one. Make that one customer super happy. They're gonNA. Tell all their friends and again it would be like Mike Itchen. Is You know we have a forest city? Kitchen and everybody would be happy with that so that that was in a s I mean. You can. I is possible to go down. The iky routes a model. Your Cell Phone I. can't all Mole Malt probably, but example bogging basement prices will probably be doing not is you've got to be able to have the infrastructure in place to be able to ridiculous levels of volume, and let's face it. Most people don't like I don't dump. Show out of my Yoshihisa on either You need to. have to set things up is really really quite difficult much much much harder than just going on the most expensive whatever it is a good reason for it and the tax. Night. working with people making more money for it. Most Coventry most coaches now who will listen today's Most people any kind of business, a lot of bad businesses themselves. My my business myself ovens. In the future, rhinos. Is Only so many walnut me. I only have so many hours a day. At least one time I wanted to work so I calm. Do we will move on this thing? Called Cell Volume I have to sell high ticky. Who is? He's just not going to work unless I have an infrared. A cell that and I have no in points that whilst leather, which now do have some Info folks. Like the main the main. The main palm business. Yeah, absolutely so one more thing that I know about you said you were a former gambler was what was your ambler? In former means? The argued them for good. Yeah. I, mean this. is a little bit before. About, ten inch Eli ten hour day job for yet. It makes it not that fun anymore. Especially when it's like? You can't let you need just need this to work in order to put food on the table. It's like. It's like about switch now spikes about not that now. It'd be like a job I hated. yeah actually didn't Possible North America but I did like version of sports trading on all people, but it's a bit like you can. You can go back and laying so essentially I was really betting on before a whole strikes outbound whether favor whether the favors gonna come in where the are GonNa show, where are going to lengthen before the rice, and then you can close out before the race those away of clothing before the race if you got a Ryan where you would make a profit, regardless of which one. So. I don't WanNa. Go into that now because I feel like he's confusing explanation, he's just going to be super relevant furor audience. Yeah, that's what I did so out. Intimate like say twenty pounder told her rights whatever. You had like twenty thirty rice in the day. You could do quite nicely. in the middle of so many UK. The whole Tracy also midday in a race every five to ten minutes until eight till nine o'clock at night, so you just sat there multi-screen. On the laptop I couldn't even get will take a pistol time. Races coming through and I'm just like. Five me. I think quite well in the winter comes along and fewer rights is because he wants to go to the restaurant January is like the money dried up online. This is funny more. Is Kinda stressful on discern on going a little bit. Stir crazy signed talks counting on else on. I'm like okay I might just go get a job again. He's what it did, and so place to since I was like twenty eight. Okay, so I'm pretty much the same although. I was I was thinking I was going to be pro. A poker player. Really yes I even a one, a. m. entry to the European poker tour, everything paid and everything and I ended up, not going. That's when I gave it up. Because it was too far now. I was playing mostly online. Then it was all the screens going several cables at the same time. Tables you play. A up to six tables, which may sound who'll but. Yeah and I mean multitasking six tables right now. Looking back I know so many mistakes are being made. If you have stables, you are making mistakes. There's no way to to be a pro at the. did the posing for a while as well as Paul about year on did like. The problem is thinking about two thousand eight. If you're trump online poker. If you a reasonable level of stunted, you could probably make a living from both now. If everyone's just too good now like everyone knows right Moose to make each time. You really just hope that the people are going to make the stakes phyliss with fish. Kuhnen everyone gets excited. Steal the money go will. Lie At least for me anyways, still just like hung it good enough of as fifty thousand housing while month I just practicing parks proxy on my visa. Is a site, but we still exists I called advanced training dot com I will sign up a light over and over and over and over and over again. Be Like when you play wrong. Move with no. You should play this survey, so he's great for. Starting to play with almost throwaway book, ultimately, what else he's doing these kind of things who's trying to win it on the site? Again just like you know another thing. I don't know if they see something that. Is! It's his Co. for what would eventually a bit like? Even making a living FOMC, not fulfilling in a scientist like I. Don't feel that come contribution to the wellbeing of opponents in any way here I'm. To fill in the system, which is cool in his way, or you know. When I die! Is Anybody going to give a shit? I play Polka for however long amounts of money. No, it doesn't matter if anybody. It doesn't and that's absolutely the point that it's it's a waste. It's a waste of time. It's more when you start realizing that you can only remember the times you win. It, it tells me that there's an addiction because most of the people that are addicted cannot remember when they lose by the law. And then when they win, even if they lost a say, you lost ten grand win five and you get super excited is one and that started happening in. I'm Mike Okay I'm done and I gave up my European Tober to over to identify go, but. That's. been quite good if you don't like him muscle level. Yet you know what I. Always thought that was these in. Everybody was telling me would tell me that was good and the scene that would really really break me was the kind of the opposite of what you said. It was not the good players. It was the bad ones. The ones that would go all Ian when I you know I have three of a kind and eagle. All in in in the River Day locale in beat me. That was. That was the. On fantasy all. The just the pure luck ones that have nothing to go L. in with two a seven. What are you doing here? Yes, so get a little bit of her off track, but. No matter what anyone listening news so Richard Win People listening right now if they wanted to find the magic sauce, and they wanna find you join your group in. Join your training. Where can they find you? A couple of weeks. Official website is much exhaust marketing dot com, so they can go nayef if they like basically like the five minutes that we might see soundtrack. It can find more. On that side is a blocks of took my best like facebook posts last year including a live video trainings, Mona blocks have only one place 'cause I kinda felt like facebook you so get lost two days. Know seeing hosting, so if more information more depth trainings on Ike. House has talking about with like a the engagement post, whatever a different kinds of posts on facebook and most of around that then by all means go and look also. If you want to join my face, group is called the munching sauce for online marketing. See His concession on if they wanNA find me just my ignored as well. I may actually steal that idea from you. The the best facebook postponing on on a blog. Do you take the screen shot of them post? No, no say so. wordpress blogs after they. Take the words then. If I need to change the words on facebook knows humidity to put a put a pitcher namic Nice. It'd be changed. Club blocks edible pretty much Scott posted. Very good. That's one of the things that. I notice these also a waste is when you have something that is actually really good content in after a while it does appears to the and let's face, but you make a great post today and is gone. In Day maybe two days I know people can go to profile ca still if you're making today, noble sculling about free, Monster Messina billion post she made in. January would've. She. You always also come tennis. Just being lost forever, those I'd like to just to have a holy places mind you know facebook decide one day the They don't want me to be a part of facebook anymore. Blocked me from all facebook closes down and take becomes the next big thing, and I'm always content will. Go somewhere else who in now? It is true and that actually. It's a matter of time because we know not. Everything lasts forever, so go someday. Something will happen, so it's always nice to have your your safety something that you're. You're in charge of yes officials. Very good richer. Thank you very much I'm going to have everything on the show notes here. I'll have your links. Your facebook group linked in your magic sauce marketing in everybody's listening. Please check them out. If you're driving right now. Do not check him out weight. And Richard it's having you. Yes thanks Thank you.

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24:48 min | 4 months ago

The World's Best Healthcare Systems: Ezekiel Emanuel

"Richard. We're about to venture into a topic that can be a bit of a quagmire for people who comment on public policy. Yup, how good or bad is America's? System, we spend vast amounts of money in our country far more than any other nation. But how does the US system actually compare with others around the world? which country has the world's best healthcare Doctor Ezekiel Emanuel? Well. Every country feels like it's healthcare. Costs are high are stratospheric. They just feel there's a high and putting pressure on both governments ending an individual spending, our drug costs are way higher than any other countries, but every country is feeling pressure from drug costs. Our show is about fixes. Yeah, how to make the world a better place. How do we fix it? Nick sent. With the code pandemic and the upcoming presidential election this year proposals to reform the health care system are front and center. When aren't they? But you know there's so many slogans around this and so much political heat on both sides, and they don't do that much. Really understanding as we saw up and say on this podcast Richard It's complicated. Yeah, so today we consider how America's healthcare system compares with others around the world. Can we learn lessons from other nations, professor bioethicists and Dr Ezekiel Emanuel. Emanuel is an expert on healthcare systems. He's a special advisor to the director general of the world. Health Organization. He was a senior adviser in the Obama. Administration Dr Emmanuel's new book. which country has the world's best healthcare? He's also the host of a podcast about the coronavirus pandemic called making the call. He joins us from Washington DC. Welcome to how do we fix it? Great to be here, guys, thank you very much for having welcome and if call Z.. Everyone else does. That's what I've heard. Okay, so let's start with the pandemic. Obviously, it's the thing that's been consuming all of us. What you think is the greatest lesson or lessons that we've learned over the last few months. But I think the greatest lesson. Is that public health matters really work, and if you implement them stringently in seriously, you can get to the top of the curve and come back down the other end of the curve, and you can actually slowly and methodically open up your economy, because you can identify outbreaks and easily do contact tracing an isolation unfortunately in general. We haven't done that. In the United, states other countries have done that much more successfully, and we have been unable to do these kinds of stringent measures speaking of Covid, and the fact that you have studied other countries health systems in such detail. Are there two or three countries that you did look at that have performed especially well in this current emergency. Yes and the standout country is Taiwan they have performed the best in the world. In my humble opinion they have less than five hundred cases, and just seven deaths could have been a disaster in Taiwan. They're less than one hundred miles off China. A million Taiwanese work in China and there are hundreds of flights daily between Taiwan and China and yet they avoided disaster, and there are many elements to that one is very suspicious of China. Cyrus thought that the be suspicious of infectious agents arising. Arising from China second, they have a face mask. Culture is a colleague of mine, said and so wearing face masks to prevent infection. Is something very common in Taiwan, and that goes along way as we're now learning, and the third most important thing which relates to my study is that they actually have this health card and the health card alerts the Ministry of Health Anytime. Someone visit the doctor why they visited. The chargers were in terms of tests and treatments, and they use that information. To limit the immigration and custom information allowed them to identify people who into to. China it also allowed them to identify people who had respiratory symptoms, but were negative for influenza, and therefore they could suggest that there doctor test these people. They've been to Wuhan or test these people. They have respiratory symptoms. Maybe they have covert, and that really rapidly allowed them to identify everyone and tamp down the spread quite rapidly, and that health car is part of their healthcare system, not part of public health infrastructure we spoke with. The bureau chief in Taiwan to talk about their success story, and if you haven't heard that episode is certainly worth listening to, so you mentioned the health card in Taiwan. We don't have anything like that in the US, do we and in fact our electronic record keeping kind of a mess I wouldn't say it's a mess I mean. Since the Recovery Act where the federal government funded hospitals and doctors to put in place electronic records, we have created that infrastructure where we are in a mess are two things we don't have interoperability. Interoperability so sending information from one system to another system that is still a mass on the other hand. We also do have a culture where people are suspicious of either giving their information to the government or giving their health information to private companies. I think a lot of people feel like they're exploited. They're commercializing information rather than using it for my benefit But we could create I. Think a neutral third party. That's not gonNA. COMMERCIALIZES exploit people simply use it to promote health and I. DO THINK THAT WOULD BE A. Huge advantage, especially in things like pandemic influenza outbreaks or measles outbreaks to really understand and rapidly get the healthcare system to respond you know Americans are just fed up with our system, and and I think a lot of it's assume that some other country the UK or Germany or are somebody else must have a much better system I know. That was the impetus for this particular book, but you say other countries do face a lot of similar challenges. What are they? Well? Every country feels like it's healthcare. Costs are high. Ours are stratospheric vacant field. There's. And putting pressure on both government, spending and individual spending again, our drug costs are way higher than any other countries, but every country is feeling pressure from drug costs. A second common stressor is long-term care. All the populations are aging. Not many countries have actually put in financing structure for long term care. Then there's the problem of chronic care management. All the healthcare systems in the Western world and Taiwan and other places are built on acute care. You go to the hospital. You get patched up. you go out, but eighty five cents of every dollar is spent on chronic year congestive heart failure, emphysema hypertension cancer as And they're going to the hospital. Getting patched up is not the right solution you need attention and you need to be able to self manage every day for the rest of your life, and that requires a different relationship, not providing care in the hospital moving to the outpatient, having doctors who proactively reach out to patients making sure they're hearing to medical regiments and adhering to a Medical Regiment for the rest of your life. It's really tough. So those are just some of the commonalities across all countries before we go further one of the eleven countries that you studied. Going on the Pacific Rim Australia Taiwan China Canada the United States, and then we did Britain. The UK Norway as our Scandinavian country, the Netherlands because it has managed competition Germany Switzerland because Switzerland tends to be a darling of conservatives who like free market system France because the French were rated number one by the World Health Organization back in two thousand and many people think they have an excellent system. You mentioned long-term healthcare, which is not exactly a headline news story we we had a lot of. Of debates around healthcare, but long term health care is is is a huge problem here in the US and other countries. Could you describe what you mean by the long term health care crisis so that you know people? Perhaps you haven't been really up on that. have a have a better sense of while the people who are experts in the field talk about a to Nami of patients coming because as the life expectancy increases, you get more people living into their eighties and nineties they have. Have multiple chronic conditions typically, so you have a situation where a lot of people become dependent. They need someone to help them with their medical care, or they're living alone just too much for them to do all the things that require going out shopping and other things. It's become a major crisis everywhere. Is it nursing home? Most countries are moving. What's called aging in place allowing people to stay in their homes or stay in their relatives homes and supporting that financially giving them some money either have A. A relative care for them or to have an outside caregiver to come into the house, but as far as we can tell from the eleven different countries we looked at only two of them have a solid financial mechanism for long term care the Netherlands, and Germany everyone else is putting together with baling wire and chewing gum as more and more of the population ages. It's huge problem and it's even worse than China than many other places because they had the one child policy, so you have one daughter. daughter-in-law caring for four parents and that is a huge huge burden. You write that with all the problems we have in the US healthcare system. You call it the best at innovations. Why is that? Why, because we have a lot of problems, so we have to be innovative to solve some of those problems so I think that's one of the inputs. We have higher costs. We don't have universal coverage. We have uneven quality and I think that has really inspired a lot of attempts at Innovation I. also think it's in the culture here. We tend to be the most innovative people in. In the world, typically that had been directed at you know new surgical procedures or new drugs or new imaging mechanisms, but increasingly it's also been directed at new ways of delivering care. New ways of financing care new ways of trying to get people optimal care monitoring them at home. Is there some center which may be the rest of the world? Benefits from are ridiculously expensive, inefficient but innovative. Innovative System I mean you mentioned all the drugs that we pay a huge amount of money for? But once they're invented, they go around the world and ultimately get a lot cheaper, but say yes, or no to that question, it is a case that we do invent a lot of drugs large part. We have this huge incentive because we pay more than any other country by a long. Long shot the United States about four percent of the world's population of we spend about forty to forty five percent of the world's spending on drugs, and it is true that a lot of the innovations here to the rest of the world, but don't forget a lot of the big drug. Companies Aren't American Novartis Roche. Zenica so you know there's a lot of other companies out there. It's how do we fix it I'm Richard Davies and I'm Jim. Meant and we're speaking with Dr. Zeki Emmanuel about his new book. which country has the world's best healthcare? Zeke I'm struck by your humility. One of the most interesting things I've learned from you is the complexity of the US healthcare system is somewhat overwhelming and that it's difficult for patients to navigate. Why is it so complex? I think you know it's the way we end up reforming it. We couldn't do a big reform that just took the whole system and redid it in a rational way, and I think President Obama was pretty overt about this. You said you know. If we were redesigning the whole system, we might go to a single payer. We might do some other. Reform but instead of doing a comprehensive reform, we tend to do Salami slicing so you know we do Medicare for the elderly Medicaid which is structured differently for low income individuals. When we did the ACA while some people who are higher income, we put them in an exchange which were created nearly, and then we put other people into Medicaid when Bill Clinton couldn't pass. Pass his hopper heads of healthcare reform. He added Chip Children's plans on top of Medicaid with different rules. We do this layering on and the layering on becomes a mess and often has contradictory policies. Let me just tell you one which I'm affiliated with this part of the ACA, so for Medicaid. We assess your income eligibility for Medicaid by looking at the last months. In but for the exchanges we look. To last year's income or two years ago, income actually, and that is like. Why are these two different? Eligibility policies they don't make any sense. It becomes complicated to figure out which one you're eligible for and most countries, no all countries have a much simpler system, and when you have a simpler system to things are possible you get everyone enrolled, and it's administratively much cheaper and speaking of that. It's also very difficult for people to navigate it. I know that that in our household for instance. Instance I do all bills except for healthcare and I. Think I've got a better deal than than my wife Oh. Yeah. Absolutely, the bills are a problem knowing what's covered is a problem knowing how much you owe is a problem, and these problems are if they exist in other countries are much much smaller. What do you think is the most important step we can take right now. We cannot get to universal coverage on the current structure. We have fourteen states, taxes, Florida Georgia and eleven others implacably against expanding Medicaid air go. There is no way in the United States to get to ninety nine plus percent coverage. There is no universal coverage mechanism to get the universal coverage. We are going to have to federalize Medicaid and take it away from the states so that is important and I. Think if we do that, we could simplify the system. And that's important. We also have to add on auto enrollment so people. Someone who hasn't signed up for insurance or doesn't have employer. They automatically get enrolled into whatever we're GONNA create as a substitute for Medicaid that will be hugely beneficial. It will get us the ninety nine percent coverage. It'll simplify the system, and it will reduce administrative costs so I think that's one I. also think we ought to regulate drug prices their way too high I think we have to regulate the prices and other parts of the healthcare system like hospitals for private insurance. They become just way too high also. Z. Few years ago, you wrote a very famous article for the Atlantic called I hope I die at seventy five. You were born in one, thousand, nine, hundred, fifty, seven, as was I, so I think we've got about thirteen years left. How are you feeling about that now? I'm feeling great. So first of all, let's clarify for your listeners. Authors do not choose titles and that title doesn't like what I argue that as a Long Time magazine editor, I can vouch for that. We were always, but in headlines on articles it would exaggerate the core thesis of the peace in ways that sometimes really got writers truffle to drive sales. Let's be honest. Well my position in that paper is I want to clarify two things first of all. It was a personal philosophy of my philosophy. It's not a public policy philosophy. A lot of people who WanNa just a tag me from the right say. We don't want this guy in public policy. It's my personal philosophy. It has nothing to do with my public policy, and as you know from my activities and Cogan I'm trying to say the elderly in nursing homes and trying to make sure. Sure that they're well protected. I'm not trying to knock them off as some Republicans. Like the Lieutenant Governor of Texas seem to do second of all. My philosophy is not that I wanNA diet. Seventy five I helped lift past seventy five. My philosophy is I. Don't WanNa Take life-prolonging treatments after seventy five, but for example if I were running and broke my hip I would definitely get my hip replaced, but I also don't want to be infirm, incontinent and a burden on my family I'm. You set out when you started the research for your book to ask the question, which country has the best healthcare? What's the answer? Well it depends what metric you're using so, I. We're against the rankings that have been produced. There've been nine different rankings out there and they don't agree with each other. At, all, if you care about not paying money at the point of care, you know, you'll look coca Britain. You'll look to Canada. You'll look to Germany as models if you care about unlimited choice of any doctor Germany, Switzerland. France will rise to the top of your list. If you want low drug prices while you're probably looking at Norway Australia Taiwan, so it really depends what your criteria are. There are a group of countries we identified that do better on average, but what they do better in May, not be the thing you happen to be interested in. Your name comes up all the time. When people are talking about the future of healthcare policy in this country, especially, if there is a Biden administration, would that be something? You'd be interested in serving again in an administration in helping, bring some of these ideas to fruition. My parents raised us to measure our life by our contributions to American society, and what we can do to improve the situation in America public service is one way you can do it. and if called upon to serve in the government. Again I would be happy to do it. It was one of the most meaningful and rewarding things I my life when I served in the Obama Administration Dr Ezekiel Emanuel thanks for joining us on. How do we fix it? Thank you. This is actually been a great. Joy. Surprise. And before our conversation, it's our recommendation on something new this week. A recommendation from our producer Miranda Shaffer. Hi I'm just GONNA pop in here recommended amazing book by the writer. Louis, King it's called writers and lovers and it just a great woke about a young female writer, and it's a rare. Serious novel. That has a happy ending. Speaking of Happy Endings Richard which time for us to try to wrap up this massive topic and I think one thing that's impressive. A about Dr Manuals book is He's very modest about the fact that there is no one country of one model that we can turn to for easy answers in this debate this these this question will never be easy, and I think you and I probably come down on pretty different sides. Yeah I come down much more in favor of of universal health care and I think that absent any better solution there will have to be a stronger role for the federal government because the current system, it has many flaws. outrageously high drug prices also incredible complexity for patients to navigate the system and poor electronic record, keeping although as Zeke Emanuel points out. There have been some improvements in that in recent years, so of course I take the other side of this, but I i. WanNa completely agree. Our current system is a mess, and it's probably a mass because of years in years and layer upon layer, well-intentioned government programs to improve as Dr. Manual, said, but I'm very leery about an even more heavy handed role in healthcare, especially when it comes to things like regulating the price of drugs. There's never in history that I know of a case where you regulate prices something you get more of it so I looked up the most expensive drug that's on the market today. I'm pretty sure it's something called. zolkin's minds made by Novartis. And of course of treatment costs over two million dollars, so any normal Alexa than says. Wow, that's highway robbery. We should ban this kind of. Price Gouging on the part of sick people. But. So against MMA treats of very rare genetic disease, spinal muscular atrophy. It's a breakdown of the nerve cells that means a baby loses the ability to our small child. Elusive latest setup swallow eventually they can't even breathe about eighty percent die before their fourth birthday, but only a few hundred kids have this each year. So people who want to regulate these kinds of outrageous prices are basically telling the Pharma Companies Hey. Don't bother coming up with rare treatments. Will and I'm not choosy. Dr Manual of this exactly, but I'm saying. This is a long range effect of a price control regime I. don't see it as either or I think that there can be more price controls put in place, or at least a a stronger buying system for Medicaid and Medicare without completely abolishing. Abolishing incentives I think that we should be looking closely for instance at Switzerland, which is home to two of the world's largest Pharma companies, and seeing how you can have universal healthcare and have drug prices that aren't as outrageously high as they are. Now in the US we pay fifty six percent more for the average drug than European countries to that's that seems like a gap. That's just too large to some degree. Those companies are piggybacking on us. Right so, so we fix that problem by having less drugs, and it's not so much the drugs it exist. I'm always worried about how the affects your regulation create incentives down the road if you're some guy with a lot of money or your some. Pension Fund one invest in the highest return businesses. Are you going to invest in Pharma where the returns are capped and really limited or you going to move on and invest in some other field? Where you're you whether aren't you're not going to be facing price controls? All I know is that the US spends about eighteen percent of its gross national product on healthcare, and it's closer to ten percent in most countries with universal healthcare. I'm not saying we should borrow wholesale from every other country, but I think it forces us to look at that and say. There has to be a limit somewhere and I think that with healthcare. You're never going to have the perfect system where everybody gets everything they want. And I'm saying let's not screw it up even more. It's. How do we fix it I'm Richard Davies and I'm Jim begs. Thanks for joining us and our producer who you heard from earlier is Verandah Shaffer where production of Davies content we make podcast for companies and nonprofits. Check us out at Davies, content dot com, and if you want to support our solutions, podcast and please. Go to Patriotdepot DOT COM and chip in water five dollars a month or some other figuring that you can afford. To Patriot DOT COM and search. How do we fix it? Thanks for listening to. This podcast is part of the democracy group.

United States Taiwan Doctor Ezekiel Emanuel Medicaid Richard It Switzerland Germany Richard Davies America President Obama Dr. Zeki Emmanuel China France Washington writer Health Organization
She's Driving Stick

The KiddChris Show

54:43 min | 5 d ago

She's Driving Stick

"No I was just wanting to know why you talking like that on a radio you'd be using that goes you know there'd be dooby young. Kids stupid. To me I'm not. Give in. To turn the channel. Shooting A. K. C. Woods in me. Members. Sorry. Okay real yeah okay. The phone. Stupid shot up. Real shut up immature immature, immature sure. Immature choice. Shot Up. You're stupid. You're retired get off my phone you idiot. A. Zoom. SHOULD'VE KANSAS E was noon. Show earlier. To thought was a court case that's. The whole shows in poor taste. Increase. What up Tuesday Tuesday Tuesday here's a phone number whether you're listening to this podcast or if you're listening to live radio show whatever okay. Five, foot, three, eight, one, three, seven, nine, seven, nine. The phone number programming note of course, don't forget every Thursday night yet the follow me on all the social media at Kid Kris K. I. D. D. C. H. R., I S. because I go live from my home that we do a video show take some calls at all that stuff right? unplanned uncooked. anyways. That's a Thursday night starting at seven PM Eastern of course, Kid Chris Dot TV you catch up all the old broadcasts and stuff. It's fun man it's It's getting built as a as I move along here doing every Thursday night at seven. PM Eastern time. Chris. This is the home number of Richard Dreyfuss. Hello Hi Richard It's Carl. Reiner. Just. Wondering if you wanted to come to the house, I got some pants that don't fit me anymore if he wanted to come by and try them on. This isn't really Carl. Yes this is Carl Reiner. Do you WANNA come over and take a bath with me what radio station you. Rundown cracking. Be Looking Real God. Creek. Shell. Look at rare. Number is five, one, three, eight, one, three, seven, nine, seven, nine to get you on the radio here. With us you get also text that. You could send whatever you want. As a matter of fact, if you want I guess. I could share this our buddy blake. We used to work in the sales department. You know he's been coming on and tell him like a play by play details. Of themselves going into one of those massage places and things end up happening And he would send US pictures. Of himself inside them. While I wanNA, I, can't the guys aren't GonNa come on and tell us and you can't see his face and all that stuff in here. But Dude on the West Coast. Listen to this very radio show sent a A video and If you'd like to see it of what happened. Kid Chris Dot, com slash rub, and tug. Are You B. A., N., D.. T. You g you will see. A whole situation, it's really. I mean I I feel like the cops are gonNA. COME BUSSING SWAT team and arrests everybody involved but it's interesting and fun to watch check that out. kid Chris Dot com slash rub and tug. Also, I WANNA. Let you know We're coming near the end of this thing maybe you have a situation and we WANNA, help you build up your whole O. Wean. And tell us why you deserve to win a five thousand dollar voucher for a sexual wellness procedure from our friend Dr, Amy Brenner. Amy Runner MD AND ASSOCIATES THEY WANNA help restore your area to its glory days. and. We're going to help you out WBZ DOT COM got the INFO. If you want to check it out, tell your story on there. Now, I don't get to see these things. She's going to read them and read it over. It's she's a professional and two people guide or girl are both gotta get hooked up with a five thousand dollar voucher good for a sexual wellness procedure. As you get older things are slowing down or stop working whatever she's going to help you through the whole thing just go to WBZ DOT COM. All the information is up there and you can go there too, and also if you don't want to submit your story, you want to meet with Doctor Amy Brenner he could go up there and scheduled consultation as well but that'd be a nice little prize so all that that's going to be coming to an end very soon. So go check that out if you're dealing with situation like that five or WPN dot com, that's the website at five, hundred, three, eight, one, three, seven, nine, seven, nine. Real Quick GonNa talk you're talking about Andy Dalton being back but eh than ever. Justed you're on the air, and now this is not a tape by the way to we're not gonNA blow on Andy Dalton because. He was a bank he's a Bengal. No this is new. Andy. Dalton new team or actually eight Andy Dalton new team. Just in your on air what's up? Hey So I heard you talk about yesterday morning about a truck you same to light. And the dealership that you seem to have good customer service from I didn't remember the name of the dealership. Is this a plant that phone call? Yes. Perfect. I I've been looking. For a while Dude I have this I, I still don't even know how to park this thing. I. Drove a truck and years and years and years but then I was out of Zimmer Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram. Okay now. The, Guy Derek out there He's a pal. That's why the Middle Name. Derek because of him. Anyhow. Twenty twenty one this thing like you could buy little spray bottle I've never owned. New. Car a new car when I got this thing at eight miles on it. It's fresh. Wow and then you know you could buy little bottles of spray where it's like it'll make your car smell brand new whatever that's nothing. Else. Knew all of my God and this thing is gigantic. It's the Ram fifteen, hundred limited crew cab, and it's to the point where my youngest is afraid to ride in it because it's so big hall. Eater up. Yeah and it's tall. Would you start? It goes up a really yeah. It's got that big display screen to doesn't it? It looks like an IPAD and the Dash. Yes and I have to spend some time. It's been so crappy out I got to spend some time and in my driveway and try to figure out what to do with this damn thing you can live at it yes and I can't even put it the garage. Must Be Pretty Bake. Then it's gigantic. You Know Zimmer they've been around forever. So they're like one of the only family owned and operated. That are left if you think about it as far as business here in Cincinnati. But. They've business ninety years. So I mean how they're you know they're a partner with us and stuff. So obviously, I'M A. Loyal to them and all that. But Derek help me out Derek I. Sat in the in the truck last week with him at the dealership for twenty minutes and you'll show me all this stuff. It does, and then a while it was like he goes well, you know the manuals in the glovebox. Does, so many things I don't even know what else it does. Shows, Dame's Derek Yeah you got to go talk to him okay. Walk. Yeah, he'll make it easy because it's it's hard. To think about. You know navigating buying a new vehicle and all that stuff and a Zimmer, do not going to bother you and how'd you and all that? So go talk to Derek, you'll be your you gotta talk to dairy that means you're in the circle of trust if you know what I'm saying Okay Yeah. I. Love you I was just off the air talk with Thomas about the sex link. Yeah. The Guy. That the those rubber tug places. The Thomas goes to the with the the Lazio massage you. Do the happy ending how are they doing during Cova now are they well? If you watch video that this, this guy from the west coast sent things are going very well and do good. It is one of the best videos I've ever seen. Is legit and send it to Blake to. Blake who were flake formerly of sales who went to jail for the bank he sent him the video goes Yup. That's pretty much play by play. What happens at those places? Yeah. So the video qualities like good. You got to watch it kid Chris. Dot Com slash rub and tug. That's legit. News. Brennan. Brown. Crank home system seven hundred. Trance down. So blitzer what one of those massage places and hit a camera in the corner and got the whole thing. That's what happens. I don't know find out later when I stopped by three of them. Roadmaps DOT, com. So what's going on? Probably away you catch IT I. Recommend to stay away from those. That's true. That's a good point. That's a good point she's not wearing. I see no masks. The COPA cases in the State of Ohio Kentucky Indiana. As we said yesterday or surging governor Mike DeWine. Yesterday. On the other side of the dial. Toll Bill Cunningham that he was ready to relax the alcohol curfew? About a done deal, they were going to allow bars and restaurants to sell after ten o'clock. But then this new wave of cases hit. So he's he doesn't think it's prudent to change the rules at this point. Though again, there was no. Clear data that Bars being closed as really helped or that they were spreading in. The Department continues to say that where we're getting cases right now are small gatherings calling family and friends whether kids you know a couple different couples are getting together and then spreading it they've had some church outings. Where they found that there was somebody who got sick and then spread it to people but it's really from these smaller informal type gatherings where people think that they're okay because you know somebody in their neighborhood or something like that, and they really aren't well. So there you go. There's a I mean that's good. That just opened him up for a lawsuit from all these bars now because he just came out and said Oh, it's not them. Having the data says it's not that he's feeling like it is definitely can help slow the spread though it sounds like the legislatures ready to overrule him on this. So they've got a bill through the Senate that would get rid of that requirement and even some of the Democrats in the House. Now say that the in Ohio that they're willing to do with this that they you know they want to try and do something to help out the bars and restaurants and They may have enough votes to override any veto that would come from Mike Dewine which I'm for at this point. I mean. The long term effects of of these businesses just going away is going to be devastating. Lose sixty seventy percent of your business. Yeah. Yeah I don't know how you're supposed especially when so many people have been on the outdoor Patios Yup things like that. So I mean in the next month, it's over Yemen unless they're buying heaters or whatever you know. Those two, I'm sure there's no doubt you know and even like the plastic up places and yeah, it's hard to get plexiglas. Only a certain amount of people will go and do that to sit stand outside in plastic just have a beer. Tents tense. Closed and all those kinds of things are in short supply right now. So I mean heading into the winner. Sounds like something needs to be done for the bars and restaurants to help them. I mean they were able to survive with outdoor dining and and Patios but you know kind of December January February yeah. Not exactly conducive. I. Just was thinking about this because he does been a pass crappy couple days cold and rainy working out watches have this horrible covert and the worst winter we've ever had. It's going to happen did like a three month for Jackson Service it said it's GonNa be wetter than normal. They weren't. They weren't absolutely sure about the temperature BA definitely said it would be wetter well, but you know how it is around here though rain doesn't affect the driving whatsoever. We'll be okay. Fixed seventy five so that you wouldn't have those issues when it rained in cars would get and cause accidents. Anybody who took it yesterday knows that they did dramatically. Sarah the newsroom who sat for about an hour right there. Yeah it. It's the same same decisions making. The Streetcar and what was it that? Mike McConnell is talking about this morning was the The skywalk? All the money into skywalk right added nine, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy. These are the elevated walkways connected all the buildings downtown Yup, the malls were starting to pop up in the suburbs and the city didn't was looking for some way to you know to kind of get people to still shop downtown they connected all the buildings spent at the time and sixteen million dollars on these glass elevated Walkways Yup and and it's so now they're tearing down the last of them today. This. Street is closed down because the one that connected the macy's department store to the crew tower is being removed. All the malls are getting us. Let's build tubes down. Now the malls are all gone. In the malls are losing all the the you know the mind the lifestyle centers, the everybody has their own open. Yeah. entrance. So candidate, if you hold it this weekend, there was like the Microsoft stores gone. Yeah Oh really yeah. Yeah I was there for the opening i. saw the opening happen that just sitting there going aches. Own. Personal entrance to a place anymore it seems like that's the only way you're a little bit of shopping that's still done in person and isn't online I haven't been to a store I can tell you when. It's wonderful. Here like the experts say that every city major city, we'll probably have one mall and that'll be at the others will eventually clock would rules? I Love Kenwood Mall those tubes downtown's walkways ended up just being where hey, here's for homeless people could sleep that became the problem panhandling. A time when their crime was rampant up there because you know people were an easy target 'cause they weren't being used much. So you know you like little street robberies and stuff like that. Perfect. We know how to do it man. We. Got About the that was good for left was like it was raining on opening day. You could watch the parade up there and wouldn't get wet perfect. Yeah. That was about it, and that's that's Sixteen million. Yeah, right. We don't have prince anymore or a winning team since the seventies. So. Here's what you do Cincinnati when you have an idea, do the opposite. To feel sorry for Brian because I can two weeks ago to report on the election how to report on how coves Craig's Colbert is killing a bunch of people. New election was a devastating and So busy cities are on fire and and we'RE STILL PAYING FOR THE STREETCAR. That's what you should be mad about. What they? There's there's times you used to stream video stream the show while we're doing it and stuff. And we'll do covid. We don't have a guy to do the cameras switcher anymore limited staff. And then there was also talk of like. Oh great way to get people to watch is you leave the mic on in studio during songs commercials I said now not doing that up. Well I don't I work on the radio it. I'm not, GONNA open up the doors all this other stuff anyhow. And plus I WANNA. Future turn those on. Within a week, we're five mics off. So but off the air, the funds that we talk about I'll bring up. Like sitting here, three gentlemen talking about how great life was before before marriage in how like just? How guys yeah no deaths noticing right now. Now, just saying that guys just live. So below their means. Like no matter what salary you have you save money because you go you just put the money in the bank and you just do what you gotta do. And then like when you go to look oh got. Some. Leftover. That's crazy. That doesn't happen. No. Would technology I mean the here's the things I've missed. First of all, let's go through technology I a run of my space. Everybody I knew was having sex with my listeners off my space and even know what it was I. Know I was like, okay. Whatever man people guys would do bits on our show just to be put into the top ten on my my space by your top friends. Yeah. Your top Fred. Move them around. They showed up on their girls would have sex with him. Is that crazy them and Tom from ice? Yeah. Yeah. And then obviously all the dating apps and all it's all missed out. That was the case. For us in Texas biggest ever then the technology is far as having home delivery and all that stuff I mean I can't even imagine right now what I would be doing just living life in in a little studio apartment because the guy doesn't need anything else and just having your grocery show up. Yeah Oh my God magic. Can you imagine like in the winter? You'd be the most Pale person in the world. Out You don't have to leave the house. I know. I did to work with it's dark and you know when I. Just working at a show and I worry about family I stay at work until it's like Oh, my God remember before the families moved up here. We were here all day. It'll be dark by the time we leave. Yeah. We just go to our hotel room to lay down and get up and leave it again. Then we go to applebees it's. Talk about the dumb show. Get Long Island's. Yes. That was crap breath for one dollar long. Island. Day came. In. Multiple. You're right. That somebody dropped through water them after midnight. Talk Gremlin. Gremlin wives spreading popping out. People's. Again I mean. You. were. There for the I don't even know if I was. Not Not Mentally it's not your decision though you know you turn into a caveman you. I. Believe you. I. Would say. That's where I needed that Jack Bauer to combusting in a room so A twenty four. Get you. Get. To, watch all these on season seven of twenty four I didn't watch it during its first run back in the seventies. All the way through it every time when he's bad terrorist guys get away he just goes Jabhat. Show. Is Beyond Damn it again here how about this your future you come to you back. Days before you go on your first date with your wife says, don't do it walkaway. Now see that's the problem that there was no I date. Really get so whatever the first thing is. We were. We were drunk at a bar I made out with her. Okay. So so you make our there you go to the bathroom future you. Just don't. Walk. going. By, rule for a time was not the don't dip your pen and company an answer that was delivered future self. Now, you look back on it. You opened up the bathroom like you just wandering in there. You would see me kicking myself in the ball. I let you do that. So we called. Hurting himself. Rocket back and forth on I'm talking to the future. I'm talking to. You know I think it's Safe to say that Andy Dalton who used to play for Cincinnati Bengals. He needs to go see the same doctor that Charlie Sheen went to go see an. AD Major. League. Gone Wild thing yet. While thing Andy Dalton. Got Those wild pitches going on. but it was funny watching all the clips this morning because I'll tell you what yesterday it was awesome to have a football game at five o'clock in the afternoon. I for me, I work obviously different hours and everybody else. But I was at home watching that game. You don't have a little bit of a connection because of buffalo and all that stuff. So. You don't grow was actually a good game. It was a great year. You kinda wanted to see buffalo slay the beast it didn't happen but it was interesting to see Andy Reid I've never seen him flip out. He flipped out on a call and it was actually there was no call it was It was like a first down by inches and He wanted them to measure it and they didn't do it. So he was slipping out but it was interesting seeing him flip out like that I've never seen him screaming in the heart attack. Yeah. His. Little. Family Mustache flopping. Away But yeah, I didn't watch the game last I kind of figured that because of the way things go but Cincinnati sports, any don't would have had like an epic game would've. Been, like Oh, my God they won seventy two to three. But. No. He's been infected with these the the Bengals Kovin and he's carrying to the other T. team. The cardinals went up twenty one nothing and they actually held beliefs. Really, oh, he cheated he was throwing the people were like none of the cowboys were in that area. I'm looking at an article right now cowboys Andy. Dalton. Throws one of the worst passes you will ever see I somehow it didn't get. Tries to throw it intersects you he can't complete that. I just like to throw it to everything read. I think everybody deserves a chance to play. Here. Guy. I mean, that is hilarious and it's I don't know what the twitter's doing today or anything but. It's it's that feeling of what? Welcome to a Dallas. Lesson like we always said that guy smiles air every time he opens up. I would I would take the slings and arrows of being the worst NFL player history not much you get paid to suck now? Imagine get net paycheck could be called a hall on twitter. On twitter and I'm basically collecting unemployment. All Day long me. That's my people who love me. I make that check me all day. In a heartbe, I'll let people come into my house Intel. Kicked me. With the wife Yes. Dude I would call cold for that check. The checks cash. For one check I mean I'm sure somebody was probably offer it. Check. I wonder what that is going GonNa be like ten fifteen or even my wife would I would she would say you probably for the team yes. Sure. We're GONNA do that for thirty bucks. Coupons you. Group. Chris was seventy five percent well, do need new curtains. A. Girl. Ob excited because he is here in the studio, he's a gentleman. It's been on the radio for many many many years. Is. The segment he is a legend thought you were talking about Doc Emrick? No no no. You don't you. threat. You just. White knowingly legendary NHL broadcasters. He's retired. He's retired right? Okay. Thirty seven hundred and fifty game who he's retiring. Miami University again, what seventy four great great man Nikki Seven ALMANAC. Yes. Look it. It's thirty you Thomas Sheet. Come on. What yourself. Dump. I. Come on. I. Tell us what is Thomas just say Hey by the way the segments report is brought to you by raising kings. Area locations. One Love One love so. It's Some of the locations Florence Fairfield and Loveland. All of them now yet here one I will fight by tonight at six, how about you and I go to all the canes in my new truck from Zimmer. Tonight as a case. Guys get. Riding. Back Church school at six, we'll get to scenic meals. Oh. Yeah. What a night. Extra fries no coast love butter on the bread both sides dipping sauce. Tell me about it. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Bengal players are the usual Tuesday day off. They get back to work tomorrow preparing for the Cleveland Browns on Sunday at PBS THE DE. COUPLE OF DAYS OFF reports are defensive stars, Gino, Atkins and Carlos Dunlap are frustrated because being being phased out of the game plan. So the Bengals Gratin say you know what? We're going to bring back the man from Estonia. He's eight feet tall at least it looks like it in pads Margus Hunt is back cool grim second round draft pick in two thousand thirteen was here twenty, six, hundred. It's GonNa get hurt in the next. To help it can't. Let's see NFL last night Kansas City over Buffalo twenty-six Seventeen Reagan Era Zona downs Dallas. Thirty eight to ten. We were talking down the hall where they have fun. The full news. Pretty cool. Yesterday of having NFL football like at five o'clock, hell yes. No was done by eight. You sit there and I guess you get your NFL fix on a Tuesday I think I'm going for NFL. Every day of the week. Why not? Why not? Yeah REG update red. Save Vice. President General Manager Nick Kroll has two teams baseball operations get the. Number one thinks signing Trevor Bauer. Good. Luck will say thank you world series begins. Against The. Term Our said quote. I'm not an idiot. On social media gotta go re tweet that hit the. World Series Action at eight, and can we mentioned another station? SURE ESPN fifteen, thirty the they need all the help. They can get world series. I plead the fifth. I'm pleading the fifth. That's all I got. Going on well. A lot of. Stuff on. There was a lot of fun. But. It's was with. The raising cane's one love fifteen area locations. got. Put a statue of you out there cut out. Cut Out of segment at all raising cane's locations, do you take seconds? Long as I get one and I get one output in my house. That's right. Just put it away with all your. Cars. Got All that because you have seven thousand of them on your desk. Well, that's true where you got another eight thousand at home about thirty-five standups. Do you collect like like fenders and stuff of race cars and all that? I, have a I. Have a part of a race car CO COUPLE PARTS OF RELATES Down, in my basement really yeah. Go down any. That down there of course. You kidding me. Car Parts. If there's an accident on seventy, one out there collect the parts. Now, it's only race cars I got I got I got a top fuel dragsters tire at home. Oh, about as big as this room of my collection. Start here went into the stands and killed a four year old. Ask. Why would you keep. Staring. They. Got It as a gift basement full of toy car parts. Yeah. Yeah. Like a garage. Thank, you. I. Don't come and see me. Get let in. I don't plan on a tour. Hey, happy Tuesday everybody. It's raining out there again, quit driver like a Kook. Stay safe out there baby. Thomas in meet. Yes. How these Dunkin donuts? They WANNA try okay I. It looks like it's got sprinkles. Ghost pepper. Back to donate right you'll be looking like a human dragon here and Look that way. So, I'M GONNA. Put My mask on. Go ahead. Try. I. Mean I'm not GonNa try it. I'm not I. Don't think you've messed with donuts like that. But goes pepper is supposed to be extremely. Heats anything that's right. It can't be that hard. Is. It good. What are the -dorsements? Wow hob getting yeah. You're getting some spice on the back end. Yeah or here cocaine. Pain. You sound like Guy Fieri on triple A.. It's getting there. Are you not getting that? I'm getting a little, but it's not like maybe your mouth is too old dead. Thomas. Never don't say you're sorry. Not Bad though. See I'm Dunkin donuts is a big Franchisee so they they must've research. They put it out like this stuff I. Don't I don't like when you just. Tastes like a strawberry. John. Like someone just but I don't want to be on fire I don't want my. It's just a good spies is a good. Sit you made a little while ago. To. Running a little bit. That's good. Test. Yeah. Like this is good. Yeah Dunkin Covid. PGA that's good and it cleans out your sinuses. I, love that see. Liking, good everybody. It's seven thirty eight we ate doughnuts. Because such good rate. You don't. Again. When attacks me? No this one. Not. Hate it hurt me. You know it's there. You definitely know. What do we know? It's there of course you know it's there no man you're throwing it in your. Town you like it's hot. Yeah. You feel it in the back of your throat. Why not? Regular. Warm donuts. Form I know. But why not why do you got what was wrong with the donut in general that you had to add the stuff to it people like if it's not broke, don't fix it. It's Thomas. Shut up. You don't if you. Don't sanitize. Little to Sir for me when he started cramming going, you know I like let's be honest. These bands that are all like were fusion band. We're a little bit of Jazz. A little bit of metal has shot up. By food like like spicy. Wing. Not Knowing. I like just dry rub regular baked wings was a good to yeah. I don't want all this crap on there. See this done. It was like a nice pop song with a heavy guitar right in the middle of it that that's dumb. That's good. Right Don't speak for the right. Thank you don't smoke. Yeah let's try that I. With Tom Committed. I didn't say that. Everybody sound like got. It goes pepper. Word speaking nervous abreast speaking. What did he say I don't know. I just had to. So now, the the board members are GONNA. Get together. Go we heard the endorsement from Thomas Let's pull that. canceled. Period. Doug just GONNA boards over their windows and stuff now. See I didn't I didn't meet just came in with them this morning and say, Hey, let's try these. They were good. Okay. I'll go back and get another round you know. That's just not me. I'm not dissonant I just don't like hot stuff the last time. Most of what was the last thing that he came in with? Well remember when he came in with a meat mountain from Arby's. God. Did you ever try that? No God. That was that nine pounds of roast. Everything. Everything. They have over there. Turkey roast beef chicken crippling paradise it was. Still, good? Menu for lunch I don't think they do. Yeah. Asphalt when you were there yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was like a secret thing he had to be in the circle of trust. You. Get Chris our phone numbers five, one, three, eight, one, three, seven, nine, seven I. by the way we have a second show Segman do you Ought to go. To a run I gotta go down and have fun. But go ahead you don't the massage. Besides places what they do like you hear the rumors no. Idea like girl in there will take care you. Yeah. A listener of ours he's under west coast. He If you've got a kid Chris got to be sick. Sick it's going to be dirty. This guy from the West Coast I won't say he won't come on and tell us but he sent us a video. He put his phone up in the corner whatever this massage place while he was getting it and look the girl takes care of them. It's really not kidding. Yeah. hanky-panky. The play by play on what's that mean? It's But. Massage boy. Go when I need go to the goods Thomas Massage of the kid Chris Dot com slash rub and tug if you want to see the video. Now he's toes now. Yeah. toews that's the other. It's like a sixty minute video i. put the. GNASHING. It's the whole thing. I. Know I didn't want to edit it down because I want to do the whole filled up. Yeah. Oh my goodness what they're doing now right Oh. Yeah. What do they do in sick? I don't see it. There's a card number that you mentioned but I'm not going to. Put Door and right now. Who drives that car can't say Driving Right now he's driving. Number? Ninety, nine of a stick shift. Yeah, it is. Yes. Rockin. Yeah One, two, three, four, five, six that's an eight speed babytalk. Rocket at things. Oh. My goodness. Yeah. Would you go to that place Would you read a sponsorship of that place? Why not? GotTa do what you gotTa do in life. Harder right. Share is. Good shucks. To Rhode All right over the puppy row with good shower not kidding. I gotTA get Outta. Here, I can't watch. Watch that stuff anymore blake from sales who comes out and tell stories every once in a while started sending me pictures of himself inside one of these rub tug places. Air Just pictures because he's like I, go to these places of didn't believe him. You sent me a picture a guy listen to our podcast obviously lives on the west coast he sent a video to yesterday. He doesn't WANNA. Come on until the story itself, but the video is up of himself. At one of these places, he must have put his phone or something in the corner and you can see it You gotta you're not GonNa find out kid, Chris Dot com you gotta go directly the Kid Chris Dot com slash rub and tug. Rub and tug. Okay. So and you could watch it. It's worth it. It's a good idea. What he sent me the video I thought well, maybe I should've wack it to the you know go right to the to the good stuff. Now you see the whole thing process the process, it's like sixty minutes. Step one. Pay The young lady don't seem too eager. To late. For Real I watch when the. Goal and I'd be done right away. Yeah. I wouldn't. I would be money not well spent one hundred percent maybe a little massage in the beginning right before you knew you know. That right there. I mean that's gotTa be strategic right? They do that erotic massage or whatever. It's like the build you up. So when things happen, you're like both. Get you out of the door, the tables. Jeff. Exactly. You're on the air caller go ahead. What kind of dirt ball goes down on well. Easy way you say it is not good. Yes this guy. Jerkov. Idiot I said, let me explain it. So it's not dirty on the radio. Stupid. K.. I know it's bad enough to tell me. So. Guess this guy in the video. To this girl where you're like, well, why would you do that that? That is like the the area where you could actually catch up pretty quickly. But I would imagine like I explained this to my wife She's asked me before why do you? Why have you when you did the prostitution stuff when he would dabble in that escort services? Where'd you worried about catching anything? Absolutely not if anything they were the cleanest ones because it was so robotic. Would check you. They would use. You couldn't do anything without protection. Keep in mind that's their industry. So I would imagine it's cleaness. Deal I've caught cla media twice and they weren't from professional women. They were from flows incurred. Three flus that I knew. Okay. Up. He was tired of your. Tires. On and on and on and out you know he just wanted to be dirty and talk dirty stuff on the radio. So I mean. When you watch it's pretty incredible. The watch it go down. I've never been inside where. I'm living through this dude, you've never done the rubbing tugs I'd ever had no no I wish I had. I. Didn't know if I was pretty ignorant to all this stuff. I I. Honestly I knew of them I knew that they existed but I thought they were in other countries well, and the thing is you're married why Thomas still goes. Through Video and Thomas I don't go ever twice Thomas because he goes as a customer and he works there. Yeah. Do. They. Give you a discount probably not on the clock though eight I'm getting the worst carpal tunnel in my hands. You make guys feel pretty confident about. And it's always important to make friends. Newtown, you know Thomas he's a he's a short Asian guy with one arm. Jeff Bridges Guess has cancer that sucks. He's a good dude I interviewed him one time a long time ago he. Had A music you know he put out an album whatever That's a bummer. Also. Somebody thinks he could find on kid Chris, dot com like that new adidas. Sneakers boy what they're really stretching. No. Every last dime. It's like, Kiss. Every I. Have Some Gene Simmons adidases I'm sure there sneakers, jeans, images face on it. His shoes. And two of Eddie Van Halen's guitar hitting the Auction Block and expected to fetch up to eighty grand each I believe it. I would think more than that yeah. Oh God. Yes. Especially now yeah. After it. Years ago there was I mean I don't know if they still do i. don't like actually if someone locally that does this I would love the know because you could get like the the Eddie Van Halen Franken Steiner Guitar Frankenstein Guitar made. But it cost like twenty grand. I know people I could do that and do it for. Yeah I would love to get one of those that would be so awesome. What just make your guitar up like that I mean I don't WanNa put the working. Just somebody but I wanted free. Yeah. Well, I'll pay for by not going to pay twenty five grand for a replica. somebody does that locally that'd be Kinda. Cool. Because I know there's guys online, you find them like on Youtube and stuff that make them for fun and they look. Damn. Close. legit. Also. For some reason. Tiger or tiger king that was huge pandemic I hit now it's like it's like a joke like creed and nickelback everybody just hates it now. But for some reason Carol Baskin, they still talk to her she's she keeps putting more wind in her sales as far as publicity because I'm saying, Oh, bisexual by the way enough. Yeah. Basket and that's not hot. I will only pay attention not at all. I. Wanted Tigers. Go. Away. I the only time will pay attention her now she is is when arrest have got to sit down with comes she actually Yeah Yeah That's going to be here last. Jacqueline as she she's finally irrelevant. Okay. Can Somebody, please put a camera my. Alley Martin is joining us what's up girl who? How you doing sweetness. I'm doing shabbily sweet thing. She does a show on Channel Nine ten o'clock cincy lifestyle what's happening with you? I just wrapped up with a shoot, the Coleraine Fire Department and I'm on my way to another one at the Bourbon. House Pizza, we're at Bourbon House Pete Pizza joint for another shoot I know tough life that's not fair my as you go out and do these things my backpack it's worse and worse what do you think your back fat? Are you setting me up for something? This guy is going to backfire on me. That's not going to back. On. So you're going out you're. You're going to be drinking at some bar. Pizza. No. No. Yeah. It's Bourbon House pizza and I'm assuming bourbon is, of course, the menu you would hope it's a northern Kentucky. So I think they're supposed to be known for their deep dish pizza which I'm very intrigued by because it's tough to find good deep dish pizza around here and I still stand by it could be proven wrong. I think to cities has some of the best deep dish, but I have not been to Bourbon House pizza until in the next half hour to go check it out onto loop you guys in next week on the thoughts of their deep dish you don't alley say you you coming on our show? Every week at this time to talk about the stuff that's going on in Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky and surrounding areas obviously to try to area I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I used to take the whole not going out and just kinda take it for granted because it's like well who who would have thought that something like the corona virus is GonNa shut everything down and Washington yeah and now I think about the pizza places that you're talking about even somebody's breweries where I would just go and. Eat the food there whatever not drink the homemade beer but. It's like I I miss the opportunity to be able to go and do that. You know it's it's so fascinating because I also fear moving into a winter full are going to continue that mindset and that mentality and I really hope that's not the case especially if people are still working in, have the ability to help and support these local businesses because as winter moves and as moves on as many of these places have outdoor seating to accommodate you know considering takeout is always really big but you're you're right I, mean we kind of get into this new norm in this new routine and a lot of people are cooking at home but these businesses are still trying to survive and they're still there and they're still really really good. But it's a little scary and I hope that these types of segments allow me to highlight. All these different types of businesses just to raise awareness in the hopes that it sparks. People's attention to say I feel like pizza tonight I wanna try something new or whatever it might be and go out and try it and support you know Allie. I am a fan of going and getting food in doing the order out stuff and all that. But yeah, I've run into to places that have screwed up my order dude. I'm trying to help you guys you know I tip awesome on these bills because I understand obviously I wanNA keep everybody I wanNA keep everybody working with our good yes or not but you can't screw up the order man. were. These are the you don't need to say who it is, but are these staple places that you go to quite frequently. And it's been consistently back to back. Okay. All right. From a restaurant perspective I'm just playing devil's advocate. They had to really cut back on staff. I'm I get it. It's still a product at the end of the day. I'm just trying to play a little devil's advocate wanted to not give up on them one of them one of them I called and I told them that was it. I'm not coming back and it's true. I'm not. Yeah but the other place, it's too good. Unfortunately, one of them is a is a homegrown place, but they kept screwing up. So I'm done with them so they may not survive who knows the other one is chain and they're going to be. Whether I told them no matter what yeah. which sucks. They don't care about your opinion exactly. Exactly. It took a ninety real and that's unfortunate if that's kind of happening. To you and you're getting the wrong order at a local mom and pop shop but I will agree what do you tip? During a pandemic well I only over night tip. Tip At least fifty percents just because I understand the situation. Wow. You're fifty percent tipper while of with good with this. Yes. Because of what's going on in the? Business I don't want them to be hurt this other place his screwed up twice, and now I'm not going to go back well that it's a really really good point though at the end of the day you're going their product is the meal and you're expecting you're putting your order in you're expecting to get what you order and if you're not hut. I don't WanNA drive back and also I mean I'm not saying this is in their head but they're like well, you know times are tough right now it's hard for us to get order right? It's like you shouldn't be in business at all yeah, and I agree I used to work at PF changs did take out there and same instance where they would hound us what is wraps for getting the lettuce or the sauces especially at. Chang's or so stupid little things that are involved with your order. We would lose business and we would lose customers and they would never come back just because you've got the lettuce and the wraps you'll man and that affects my tip. We're talking with our friend Allie Martin from channel. Nine she ten o'clock does a show called cincy lifestyle and you told us a while ago that you were taking lessons to drive a Morna cycle and. I saw video you said. You were. Do you buy a motorcycle? So I had a bike for about a month or so all right Yeah. This is. Only yes this story of this weekend. So the whole experience has been fantastic. I told you I did the classes are fast classes and pretty much right away I did my research a Kinda knew what what bike I wanted to go forward to cruiser but it's a good beginner cruiser. Thought it off line on facebook marketplace always say big advocate of facebook marketplace classic case of this woman bought this bike because her boyfriend road they broke it sat in her garage for ten plus years good for you and she was great for me less than eight hundred miles. So she was trying to get rid of it a couple of people bailed on her call so I ended up getting this bike. And I've been riding around for about a month. Keep in mind again, it was in the garage for about eleven years and she did not do any maintenance on it. So I'm also over zealous there's bike. So excited to hit the road that I, it's my own fault that I also have not gotten any maintenance done. I took it out on Friday. Visa. and. It it stalls out on me. Pause. And Madison's waving on traffic telling people to go by me because the battery just. Hit this I just like walking and bike. I'm calling state farm. Tell a motorcycle. Titles. Do. You want me to sit on? A flatbed. And we just rolled it up on. I. Helped the guy out because a five hundred pound bike. It will roll away. That's kind of fun Yeah Oh. Yeah it is fun easy access. It's not like a course I'd. Like. Paying pictures in my house, and here you are with a motorcycle and you're doing different things and all that. I am zero I'm negative fifty man. Let me just look through the list here. You wanted to promote you doing a segment with that jerk off John John. Promote talk about it because I know you like to call him dum dum dum dum who was fired from Cubano to fired. Him and his wife decisions and is endeavors because we're creating some fun content together. You went and you're just using him because you got to go and meet that Nicholas Shea Guy Right Oh drew drew get to meet the real the real the shape. So justice. Yeah. So you got to go beat the brother of the star. Precisely but Druze Lee to give people context. Let me back up a little bit. We talked about John Doing the whole debt we were. We went to Dan schoolhouse grading system because you know it's kind of funny how he doesn't really have a job right now we've figured hey, let's put you to work. John. John on the job. So that's kind of what this Cynthia lifestyle series has become drugs. John John needs a job. So we're just trying to help them out here, and then we went to La- Shea. which drew and Leah Own and we had him teach a dance class. This I will say i. told him to wear snap pants and he ripped them off right before he taught the class and the poor children that were there are good think. So we're Matai. So now he's now. So they fire from Cuba to, and now he's harassing children with his naked body. Short shorts. That's the that's the CINCY lifestyle. It's called good entertainment. Okay, it's called entertainment. Well, Allie was great talking to you your video. made me smile of you breaking down on your motorcycle. Some Joe. Clock in the morning. But I appreciate the time and have fun with your video shoots. What the Hell's. Wrong. That's that's. Something before that's. Never stops I don't exactly what in the hell is just happened to. Chris show.

Chris Dot Thomas West Coast Cincinnati Richard It Andy Dalton Derek John John twitter Carl Reiner Blake Bengal Andy NFL Zimmer Richard Dreyfuss US Bengals
12 | Feast on Your Life

Another Name For Every Thing with Richard Rohr

54:42 min | 1 year ago

12 | Feast on Your Life

"The. Welcome to season one of another name for everything with Richard Rohr exploring the core themes of his new book, the universal Christ as mentioned previously this podcast is recorded on the grounds of the center for action contemplation and may contain the quirky. Sounds of our neighborhood and setting. We are your hosts on pulse Wanson. And I'm Breese donor were staff members of the center for action and contemplation and students of this contemporary path trying our best to live the wisdom of this tradition. Amidst getting the oil changed awkward first dates and the shifting state of our world. This is the final twelve weekly Soad's today, we are concluding with chapter seventeen beyond mere theology to practices in this episode. Richard leads to practices that exemplify. The universal Christ and daily. At a point in this episode virtual for two third person their own and that is our sound engineer Palm's could've done this. One more thing before we get started want to hear from you in two different ways. The first invite is for your participation in podcast listener survey, we want to know what you think is working so far or what we could do better. And the second vacation for those of you that have a burning question related to the themes of the universal Christ. Please send them our way after the season is over will gather as many listener questions as we can and bring them into conversation with Richard. And then shares responses with all of you to participate in the survey or submit a question head over to CAC dot org slash podcast and follow the instructions, thank you for all your time listening to the series. Is you the listeners that helps spread this message around the world? Thank. Thank you. Okay. Risotto grateful that included a chapter on to practices that help ground. This work in contempt. Embodiment a lot of ways, and we thought it would be helpful for all those listening to show these practices rather than than just talk about Huck. So just want to. Have you welcome. And introduced the first practice you include including the book, which comes from the same author of the cloud of knowing their lesser known book lesser-known, can can you give a outline of that? And then enter into it as as you see fit as best. Okay. We'll you gave the proper introduction. I really took to this only a few years ago. I don't know if I had even read the book of privy counseling, what are unique title when I was young. But you've heard me speak of the hour of the wolf. And when I say, this to crowds, I'm not kidding older people in general that even younger when I described the hour of the wolf as those unique hours between three and six in the morning for most beep where you're beginning to come out of your deep sleep, and you're in this twilight zone that is win for some. Reason the unconscious has been unhinged. And you'll have your most scary dreams attacking dreams. Fearful thoughts about what you gotta do the next day. And they're completely exaggerated their their way out of context. You know, but you wake up in a fright. What could go wrong or whatever, it might be and just to tell this to people is a great relief because then they know they're not so unusual that I guess a lot of people have this. So in that context when I was suffering from this for whatever reason, I was waking up in the morning and just having anxious thoughts were largely irrational. But we're on my mind would construct a gestalt of what was going to happen, or what could have been or whatever. I needed something that was more than an idea. And I found it in this little exercise offered in the book of privy counseling. So I'm going to largely quote, the author whoever it is take God at face value as God is accept God's good graciousness as you would plain simple soft compress win sick now. Admit as a little boy, I can remember my mother putting compresses on me either cold or hot depending on what I have. And there was always a a memory of the comfort in that was a physical memory of being covered being. Something being protective the author goes on take hold of God in the same way. As you would take hold of the compress press God against your unhealthy self just as you are. Second know that your mind, and will how your mind and will will play their games, stop analyze yourself or stop analyzing God, you can do without wasting so much of your energy deciding if something as good or bad, grace, given temperament driven divine or Uman if this was written in the fourteenth century, that's real psychological subtlety. Third. The encouraged offer up your simple naked being in your fears in your doubts in your negativity. Whatever it might be your simple naked being to the joyful being of God for you to our one in grace, although separate by nature and finally don't focus on what you are. But simply that you are that was the line most helped me because when I go to the what I'll start writing commentary unwind, and adequate why not good enough for a phony or whatever else it might be. But simply the naked that you are that I missed at all. Hopelessly stupid would a person have to be if he or she could not realize that he or see she simply is now hold the soft warm compress of these loving words against your bodily self. I'm writing this. I think bypass the mind bypass, even the affections of the heart are the whimsical nature of the emotions and forget for go. Any analysis of what you are? And what you're not and just take conference in the fact that you are an all. Works for me simply that you are. And I end by saying I like this practice because it can become a very embodied experience of what we've been talking about in the whole book your own body in its naked being with no doing what involved where you mean beings. We're not before we're human doings becomes the place of revelation and the place of inner rest Christ, then can become de Spiritualized. It's not an idea. It's a body knowing it's the body safety. It's a body validation. But you've got to stop that judging mind, which even critiques the practice says this is stupid, which I do teach these things then when I do my say this stupid, and that's just my ego trying to retake control because it doesn't like moving beyond rational control. So when you find the spirit of dismissal saying, this is stupid, or whatever your mind might say, you can be pretty sure that's what the medieval would have called the evil one. We don't have to attributed to the evil one. But you get what they were trying to say. You talk about in in this chapter that practices more about unlearn than learning unknown more about unknowing than knowing, you know, and it it it helps us. Rewire? I know use that word a lot rewire a different way of knowing. And I think about that. How little we trust? Our bodied sense of anything or are our bodily way of knowing our incarnation sense of it that line of like, the compress press it against yourself as you are as your body is I can feel the way my rational mind wants to you know, spin out, and then, but there is it brings me into my body into sensation. Which it's it's I can feel how where I'm moving from right moving from my head into my heart into my bodily sensory self. You know, if what Myers Briggs says is true as I remember that approximately eighty percent of you manning is sends eight only twenty percent is intuitive. I'm an intuitive. But I'm often amazed by people read my books because they're so intuitive. It's all intuition, intuition and. If eighty percent of U Manet's has sends eight then the notion of compress will really work for them much better than a chapter one of my books, and well this good argument for practicing itself. You give a lot of people concrete body based practice where the rewiring is happening. Even though they don't know it, and you're probably doing much of you Manitou. Eugene favor now in favor to my own Catholic tradition, which I criticized so much. This is what I do think the sacraments achieved particularly Eucharist Eucharist done correctly is a body based experience. And now we made at wordy we made a decorative and all the rest, but you whittle it down to the core experience. And it's about eating and chewing and swallowing and tasting tasting see of good is the Lord that was trying to do the same thing. But we pulled it back into words. I said that to the priests I was talking to last week. I said don't chew all admit the masses. So wordy just on and on words because we intuitive like it that way just have naked quiet handing over. Food to your body, and you slowly digesting it there's a whole message really of communion. Thank you. Since you just named the Eucharist in your book. You talk about there's been all these embody practices within the tradition. But can in ways addition of so many words to explain them. They've kinda lost that embodiment or that felt sense of the of that as a template experience. I'm wondering if you could just name some of those because I think, it's helpful. So those that are what the sacraments things are things are Sacramento pilgrimage. Yeah. Sacramento's Ackerman toll center. Yeah. The seven sacraments in the Catholic tradition became opted by the priesthood where the center figures, the priest not the experience seems to me. So I'm glad you said by sacramental 's women all the other seven thousand access points. And I think that's really what we're opening up in our teaching of contemplation that are don't need to go to the church to have a priest absolve me of my sin may be sitting in a forest gazing at a dead tree for fifteen minutes can allow me to forgive broken reality. That's -cremento knowing of the same thing and maybe much deeper them. The forget me hocus pocus that we became associated with. But we deserved that. You know, where that phrase game from hocus pocus? Oh. When mass was in Latin. The words of the sacred words of consecration were hulk as Sgt Ainum, corpus Mayom. This is my body in Latin and Protestants making fun of us. Good catholics. They would come in. They'd hear this latte. And they'd say all that Catholic hocus pocus. Hocus corpus Miami see there. You learn something. Not to you need to know it. I'm sure it sounded exactly that way hocus pocus. But that line, even you know, this is my body. This is this is my body and the way this book helps to expand where that body is. And as you said in a forest, even as I as I you know, I think about when I was nursing my son's the quiet presence. The this this embodied way of being this contempt of way of seeing is accessible to us through so many different routes. But I appreciate that you're leading us into this. This way of seeing in the book, you talk about the second practice that you offer. I wonder if you'd be willing to read it, whereas the divine mirror, right? The way the Mirroring Wolford. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Is that right? Or will of course, as good because it's it's such a again, it's it's a reframe for us to recognize how how we are changed. How we how we're transformed I was just wanting to anybody getting this. So the fact that you want me to read a makes me thing at least one person. The song page to twenty six the divine mirror. A mirror receives and reflects back. What it sees? It does not judge adjust or right commentary. We are the ones who do that a mirror simply reveals and invites responsibility, a mirror, the son, and God are all the same in a certain sense. Of course, they are all they're fully shining forth. Their very nature is light love an infinite giving you can't offend them and make them stop shining. You kind of fend mirror or the sun or God. You can only choose to stop receiving and stop in joining as soon as you look you will see they are there. And fully radiating and always have been and their message is constant good and life giving there are only lookers and the non lookers those to look back at the mirror. Look back at God. Look back the light of the sun those receive and those who do not receive. When we learned to love anything or anyone is because they have somehow if just for a moment mirrored us, truthfully, it compassionately to ourselves as when your heart goes out when someone has just oh my God. You know, who I am? And you've accepted it you just melt we grab onto it. Why wouldn't we in this resonance? We literally come to life. But I have no doubt it is an allowing from our side such pure, unfiltered presence is accessed only by presence in return. Nothing. More is needed presence comes to us from Christ side. And then presence from our side knows what it needs to know if that mirror is withdrawn for any reason, it causes sadness emptiness or even anger. This is what we call the grief experience. The mirror is gone. I don't know how often lasts for all year. We're normally disoriented even heartbroken for a while we die in some way. But why because we only know ourselves in another's is that's fully trinitaria. We create one another and we can uncreative one. Another by rejecting that imaging we receive our identity all of it. Good and bad from another remark, more relational and we ever wanted to admit. The other both creates us and saves us. No man is an island entire of itself says the poet John. Now, this is what we call the pure gift of holiness, or if you prefer homeless it's gift, it's not a moral achievement. We are always a giving resonance never possession of our own. The universe is relational at every level, and even between levels relationship is the core and foundational shape of reality Mirroring are trinitaria in God every object serves as a mirror. Every object are can if will allow another kind of presence, you can find such mirrors in all of nature in animals in your parents. Your lovers your children books pictures movies and even in what some call God. Remember, God is just a word for reality with the face and usually interface, which some called prayer or love. God is a mirror big enough to receive everything and every single part of you just as it is rejecting nothing adjusting nothing often for the sake of an even deeper love. We will experience a kind of universal forgiveness a divine sympathy for all of reality or what some have called the divine pity. And we'll even fall on us. Whatever is fully received in this mirror is by that very fact redeemed and all received whether we believe it or not you do not have to see the sun to know that it's still shining, if your divine mirror cannot fully receive you in this way than it is certainly not. Why didn't someone tell me that when I was young? Remember that regret prophets of nobody? Shame is useless. Blame is surely a waste of time. All hatred is a diversionary tactic adad end. God always sees and loves God. In you. That's what the mystic say in so much, and so many different formulations. It seems like God has no choice. This is God's eternal and unilateral contract with the soul. If you cannot allow yourself to be fully mirrored in this way. You'll never fully know who you are much less. Enjoy who you are nor will, you know, the heart of God. Any loving gaze that we can dare to receive can start. This flow creation itself. Animals, humans are all the divine gays if we allow them to be the non then I quote, Paul the knowledge that I once had was imperfect. But then I shall know as fully as I am. No. So you could call heaven the full near full receptivity one day the mirror will reflect in both directions. You will see over there. What you allowed to see God in here. What your God to see in here? This is full access seeing and being seen most of named it heaven and it begins now. Let this divine mirror fully receive you all of you. And you'll never need lonely again. This probably you know, I ever time. I read it. I say I should've said that differently. I no matter how many times I tried to refine this I was never satisfied with them. So I think the the reader has almost stopped after stop after a few sentences and put in their own words is still too much. My words they have to put in experiences that match their experiences. But I at least want him to know that this experience is possible. Yeah. Yeah. As I was listening to read that. The words resonance allowing presence flow relationship relational ity relational giving and receiving that kind of mutual affirming. These are the gifts of that practice for me that I think I can I can feel how you're you're giving us a blueprint of these are, you know, in a way the fruits of this of this, contempt of heart. This is what it feels like what it looks like here's how you can trust it in your own life, and then begin to orient yourself to it. And I know we've talked about. The role of practices in sort of aligning ourselves to this blueprint. But it's interesting because I think so many of us when we start a practice. You know, we come at it. So rationally in for heads. You know, like, I gotta do this twenty minutes. It I got to get this, right? And I appreciate that. The that some of that is okay, it's okay to come at it just to start. But I wonder if you could just describe what that early stage of practice looks like and maybe validated. For those of us who are wanting to try this out wanting to try out this way of living and our new to it. You know, I wonder if it doesn't have to almost be techniques. At the beginning. And the you have enough sense of commitment seeking that. I will submit to this technique until begins to teach me, and then when the the teaching begins to soak in you'll usually become less rigid about the technique because you know, just a finger pointing to the moon, but once you touched upon the moon, you'll get less preoccupied with the finger are thinking there's only one finger, which is I think the mistake. Most people make the way I came to my God experience is the way you should. It's just not true. As John of the cross says, there's many ways to God as there are Uman beings at a Spaniard Catholic would say that in the sixteenth century, his extraordinary sense of freedom and God's freedom and our freedom. So learn some practice have the commitment, dedication and devotion to commit yourself to even though all seem you million. I. It's actually the scandal of the particular or just doing this is gonna matter your mind will find all kind of reasons to disagree with. I see this in students and classes. Well, that isn't always true. It's the post modern game that isn't always true. And they don't realize they're just trying to upset themselves from what is true about it. It's going to ask too much of. And so they say it isn't always true I have grown so used to this response is almost always in the first five minutes of any questioner answer. And I will even say, I'm not even asking you to think, it's always drew are forever true. But would you try it long enough to see it's a little bit drew? And that that takes you military. I guess. Does that respond brings to mind? A memory of me when I first started to practice practice. I just read a zen Christianity by William Johnston, kind of mind read, my segue into contempt practice. And I remember twenty one years old started early. Well, I stumbled early kind of van my form, but I was so rigid about it. I'd light a candle sit. Cross-legged and stare at the candle as thinking that this is the only way could be done and. Like, you said like that form or that format loosened as time went on. I didn't have to do it that way. But I it was the only way to be alone and had to have the candle, you know, the number of times I was looking for a candle because he can't sit that a candle. Was kind of how I fell into. But really was able to expand from their practice. The people don't go into the expanding stage are the ones who become very rigid. Then demand that same repetition from another person and a lot of religious teachers are still at that level teaching one practice. Yeah. I also had that experience of clinging to the perfectionism of the form, you know. But at the same time, I think I also just want to honor my enthusiasm. I was just so excited to to find a new way of connecting to presents connecting to to God. That I was I was thrilled to to be doing it. But I remember early in the living school having the experience of feeling like I had to do it. Perfectly twice a day. You know, and I'm looking at all these retired folk who had all the time in the world to do practice, and here, I was young mom trying to juggle, you know, working and two kids at home and partnership in reality. And there were all these interruptions, and I think I have a little bit of a one in me, Richard. Because. Yeah. Oh, man disruptions were how like disruptions to my practice where like the worst, you know? And I would find myself like Cam in this flow, and I'm like doing my practice. And then I'd hear my one of my kids wake up, and I was like, no. So I think over time I began to realize that the disruption is the practice just as much as the practice to choose God deliberately. Yeah. Not your own success. Right. So you tend to say take satisfaction is our own success and call it taking satisfaction in. God. Right. See how we're getting fooled there. And so God has to grant us non success. So we can reach us God and honor selves, right? It's brilliant. It works. And I think in in our kind of capitalist culture. You know, it's not like you can win at contempt of prayer. You, you know, you're not really achieving. And so it's it is short-circuiting so much of how we where you're like is this actually doing something, and you feel like you're kinda just dying. It's just a daily death. True size every time in a short failure. So if you're living the the world view of Washington DC, it's all about winning. You'll never try contemplation. You'll go near it in does your whole schema at the most radical level possible makes you comfortable with losing with not winning and finding there's an oak Kanus at the bottom of that even better. Now, I admit that we need some successes. We do like, I'm looking forgive me. And I'm having vein thoughts. When I look at this new book. Oh, look at my name. So we need a few those. But just don't take them too. Seriously are entertaining them too long. I'm thinking about those richer to our hearing this and they're thinking about beginning to practice and one of the things that you name. So this chapter is that you can be met by resistance that comes up internally or like, I don't know if you've heard of this book called the war of art. Beyond the clever tight. I think when the best things about for me was tight about whenever you're kind of intent on a creative pursuit. He says the the resistance shows up in some form, whether it's gonna go clean this drunk. The my junk drawer, or like, I'm gonna go check my Email just these things that aren't necessarily bad, but they're distractions or things that disempower you from what you actually showed up to do. So if someone's just starting to practice, and what kind of wisdom, would you offer as far as acknowledging that there is the resistance that will show up or will say as you said, this is this is a stupid idea. I don't need to do what kind of advice would you offer? Someone just brand new at this. You know, maybe correct me if I'm wrong or delete this if it is applicable, but what comes to mind is cynthia's beautiful teaching on third force that whenever there's a new arising as certain as the dawn. And as Newton said every force will be met by an equal and opposite reaction every action. If that's true. And I have a feeling it largely is then you you see. The movement against the resistance as you rightly calling him as part of the deal. It's the now because we didn't own that let me make a jump to an application, but I that's why we murdered murdered the bible because you read the bible recognize every forward moving message in the bible. The resistance techs are in the bible there included in the bible and people who were at the level of resistance. Prefer those texts. Kill all the Canaan Canaanites, women children included. Yes, sir. The word of God says that the intuitive sense of person in the mind of Christ knows that God didn't say that. But for some reason included in the bible and in the human psyche. And apparently in the evolutionary unflattering of creation. There is the necessary death principal now, I think I say in the book hardly Christ is the life principle. Jesus is the insertion in the middle of history, whom were perhaps ready for it. We clearly weren't of the death principle that the only way this life momentum will keep moving forward is if you can integrate the pushback integrate, the negative forgive the sin. If we use the hurt term that we're familiar with. Once you know that pushback creates the momentum that leads to holy reconciling. Allow something new to happen. Then you're not so upset, you know, when I get up says when I watched my nature shows, and I see these wild dogs killing a little fall. And I just I really just have to turn away live. Why does God live these wild dogs? Kill this little phone. He's only existed for one hour. I mean, everything EMMY just no no now. And if I don't have a bigger frame. That somehow the great scheme of things this life death mystery is leading to another level of life. I would go crazy in this world because that's all it is every day. I mean, watch the evening news, local or national. It's all about the pushback. It really is. It's all about the pushback so little about the push our the movement forward. And yet with all of this pushback. We can't deny that the movement forward is happening. But a on any particular days. I think most of us are overwhelmed by what's not happening. So all I'm doing is repeating what you already said, it, this does not satisfy the rational mind because you're rational mind will still name it bad. Good bad. There's two big alternatives. And that the bad could possibly include some level of good is hard for us to admit. And that are good so called usually has a few levels of bad in. It is equally hard for us to accept this is that human tragedy that I think Paul recognized. And if you need a visual symbol, we've all seen the Dallas TX symbol the white circle. With the spot of black the black circle with the spot of white. That's pretty good. Because that's the way it is. That's the way it is the complexity of human evil and human goodness now. Once you agree. Okay. If Jesus could live in this world, that's what we're accepting the cross if you can say, it's okay. To trust this. All right. I'll trust even though it does make a bit of sense. There's going to be a day coming each of our lives where that's going to be the only thing that's going to get you through the day. Saying, okay. I don't like it. I don't trust it. I wanna get out of it. It's wrong. It's stupid. It's unjust. But Jesus if you hung there, and again, think of the cross not as an atonement, but God's radical solid Garrity with the human situation. God's radical solidarity with human situation in the original rising in the pushback and in the transformation. We've got a good religion. But it's just it's hard to teach it at the good level early is. It's really perf- a profound overview of what we're doing in practice this trusting the desire, so desire moves in toward say, I really I want to develop this way of seeing and then to not resist the resistance that comes back, which is the, but I don't like this. They don't enjoy this doesn't you know on my mind, doesn't like it my body's resisting and to hold the tension of opposites there to let that collision of opposites happen within you in a trust of a bigger cosmic hope of I believe this is developing something within me that is part of the Christ mystery, I believe that this is part of the path. Yeah. That's it's striking me as you just gave a deep theological overview to what's happening in our very bodies when we do practice, and you know, the proof of the in the pudding. If you are honest about yourself, you'll see that afterwards. You're more compassionate, not less. Your soul has expanded not tightened up or constricted. So there's the resurrection. Now, it's a hard one resurrection because you were in hell for few hours or days are minutes. But you're you're less righteous. The next day, you're less less certain. It's a holy uncertainty willing to hold the ambiguity. Well, she wasn't the total evil bitch. I made her into that was more Mimi talking then then really her. And when you see those arisings in yourself, you know, that God's victory has been achieved. This is reminding me, I know I keep making you reap things, Richard. But like, you know, what I mean? Whereas I'm looking for the love after love. Is that right here in the upper lot here. It is. Wolcott? Would you young man when I first met him, would you share where where this poem came? And then just read it for when I was pasture of the lake community in Cincinnati. Which grew very quickly in the first years. Wow. Did I get invited to the island of Saint Lucia? I must must've. How would I have gone down there? I didn't set up a trip, but. Oh was the charismatic movement. And I was known as a charismatic preacher. And it was very strong on that island. And I came down to give a workshop, and this poets who is introduced to me Derek Wolcott the name and nothing at that time. But then it was so ironic on the very day that he died March seventeenth who is beginning to write this book two thousand seventeen I I read this poem of his and I didn't remember it. It's called love after love the time will come when with elation you agreed yourself arriving at your own door in your own mirror and each will smile at the others. Welcome your own self seeing your own self in your own mirror, and you will say to yourself in effect sit here eat you will love again, the stranger who was yourself. Give wine give bread give back your heart to itself to the stranger who has loved you. All your life, whom you ignored for another. Who knows you by heart? Take down the love letters from the bookshelf. The photographs the desperate notes peel your own image from the mirror. It's just an image sit in feast on your life. I don't know if he wrote the close to his own death. But it sounds like an end of life poem. Where there's been this. Absolute acceptance of the self, and as I say in my commentary, I probably should not have added this. I hope this book has helped you to experience and to know that the Christ you and the stranger that he speaks of in. This poem are all looking out with the same set of eyes. But you only know that at the end of your life. The God's eyes are not other than yours and your eyes when they're doing right are not other than gods. And so grateful that you added that line actually really for me brought the whole book home. Oh, good makes me happy. Yeah. He had just. And I think he just came to my talks because I was the only thing happening in town. But I remember meeting fellow very pastoral way to end with these practices, which are just so much of being and receiving and participate in the trinity. I think pretty with of the mirror me, and then to end with that poem. It felt like that was your mic drop just the lasting wasn't just you're making me happy. Those things hit you in that way. So Richard it's been such a treat for us to be able to walk through the universal Christ with even in this way. And you've been so gracious to be gracious with our questions and our. Good. And knowing that sometimes it's a roundabout way of talking about the big things that you already know what I'm going to say we need to say. Yeah. I mean, there's been a lot of folks who've taken his journey with all of us through this book in this way. What do you what do you hope for those who have been with us? Whether it's doing the dishes and listen to it or they're on a run or in their car. What do you hope they take away and walk away with as they try to integrates from this into their life? You know, I don't know why comes to mind the line for more cuts poem, take the image down from the mirror and feast on your life that God has come to you disguised as your life. As polity RC says that there's no big ideal moral achievement that you must achieve and the irony is that radical self acceptance that accepting that you are accepted. Will paradoxically probably allow you to do some very generative sacrificial can use the word carrying things for our world. But you'll know now that it's coming through you as a flow not as a self initiated generosity. So that's incarnation come to its full conclusion when I know that I am the image of God. And I put together you Manitou and divinity in my feeble life, just like Jesus did. What else would the file state of incarnation b? Yeah. So I if this book even chapter of has that the beginnings of that affect for anybody. I will be extremely grateful because I think as I look at our culture, and I've taught in especially western Europe. But the rest of the world to I see a you manage. That is burdened with lack of self esteem. Just to take a thousand faces but human beings who think they're nothing and are trying to overcompensate in the most superficial of ways driving, the fastest. Motorcar? It's okay to drive a fast motor car. But is this just putting off the peeling off of your image from the mirror and knowing your inherent goodness without driving the fastest motor car? You're the problem is solved at the beginning. You don't have to play these achievement games enough to live up to all these performance principles. I think I especially see it in Irving teenagers. Science trying so hard to be loved to fit in to be famous to be. And I know they have to do it. You know, I didn't even know how to swim. When I tried to get the swimming merit badge. I could so picture the moment and the swimming pool or I just I couldn't admit to all the other little fourteen year old boys that I didn't know how to swim. Okay. You gotta swim down to the end and back. Okay. I must have looked like a complete fool. I got about four feet, but I'm falling. But I was sure my determination would teach me out a swing. Oh, what a horrible night. That was. I did the same thing with baseball. I just I thought I could fake it. So maybe I had an excess of self confidence, you know, but it was to win the self esteem of my peers and anything to fit into that group and fourteen and to make them not call you an idiot, or whatever they might call you, and you are parents. I'm sure you're gonna have immense sympathy for your kiss when they go off to high school or middle school. It's must be torture. Well, Richard, it's it's a sign of how what an embodied wisdom elder. You are that you're describing how you were at fourteen which is how I would describe most of a dull tes in America. Still at fifty feel very much in that trap of of trying to find that deep sense of self hood of belonging of cosmic. Oh kanus. And I I feel that this book is pointing us in that direction. Cosmic. Okay, nece. And you've heard me say, I guess I say in the book it is very hard to heal individuals. When the whole thing is going to hell in a hand basket. And that's what we're dealing with the whole thing is in coherent. And yet I supposed to tell you that you're wonderful, and then send you down to a typical bar. There's nothing wrong with gonna do a bar. But if it's a totally negative environment. There is something destructive about going to a bar or anywhere. We lot of families are worse than bars. Okay. Thanks for so grateful. We're done. Have now just wanna offer our deep gratitude for going on this journey with us over so many weeks, and so many hours and for modeling the incarnation worldview that you talk about for for modeling the embodiment of Christ. And for. Giving us a chance to talk about it to see it to name it. And hopefully now to go off into our lives, and and live live it and live into it. If I could do that at all it because I was in the presence of three very loving people. And I felt safe here. I felt accepted here there were no mind fields or no inherent mistrust. And whenever I've had a crowd in front of me like that which I've been lucky enough to often have. It brings the gospel out of me. I do believe the preaching of the gospel is a symbiotic affair if you have a hostile heresy seeking crowd in front of you. You'll say outrages things either on the right or the left, but you all represent such sweetness. I don't know what else say so thank you for being the sim by hoses that I believe the body of Christ is supposed to be. Thank you. The beautiful music. You're listening to is provided by Burt talker another name for everything with Richard Rohr is produced by the center for action and contemplation thanks to the generosity of our donors. If you're enjoying this podcast consider radiant or sharing it with a friend to help create a bigger and more inclusive community to learn more about father, Richard receive his free daily meditations in your electronic mailbox. Visit CDC dot org. If you want to learn about, these ideas and more depth Chuck out, the universal Christ resource collection at universal Christ dot org. The high desert of New Mexico. We wish you peace and every good.

Richard Richard Rohr Richard it John Paul Breese Soad Huck engineer swimming Sacramento Derek Wolcott Palm EMMY Washington Sgt Ainum Sacramento pilgrimage Eugene Wolford
Whats New In The Pellet Making World?  Plus Trailer Maintenance Talk!

The BBQ Central Show

59:48 min | 1 year ago

Whats New In The Pellet Making World? Plus Trailer Maintenance Talk!

"Hi this is Bob. You're empty from Cleveland Ohio. In you're listening to barbecue. We'll do it live doing live. I can all right it and we'll lodged perfect barbecue use. Whatever put the letter fluid on strike your match and what should we call the fire department? That might be a good idea yeah good evening. Welcome welcome to the really big Barbecue Central Jail. Hey show that talks about all things. According to the world of Barbecue and grilling broadcasting live a direct from the rock and Roll Hall of Fame City City of Cleveland Ohio the barbecue capital of the North Coast. I have your program host Greg Right. Be Happy to have you aboard here. If you want to jump in on the show tonight Jerry take him out live fire happening. Perhaps your own experiences over this past weekend. What have you here's your contact info? Hold on a second. Don't have that one on muted and here's your contact attacked Info you can get in touch with their show by calling to one six to two zero zero nine six six female greg at the B._B._C. Ju- central show dot com on the twitter instagram B._B._Q.. Central show everything else you want to find out what about the show can be found out the main website avow B._B._Q.. Central Show Dot Com and here's what's happening case. You didn't get the newsletter coming up in about thirteen minutes from now. He is a long time running sponsor of the show. Dare I say one of if not while it's not the most home I can't believe what I almost let come out of my mouth. He is by far one of the longest running sponsors of this show not the longest running sponsor but by far one of the longest running sponsors of the show he makes a product that especially if you are a lover of the pellet cooker if you're not familiar with who he he is you definitely want to go ahead and make sure that you are on board with at least getting to know his product because short of the cooker. His product is second. Most important. I most important thing about the pellet cooker is that it's a pellet cooker. Second are the pellets and that's Chris Becker and cook and pellets dot com making his triumphant return back to the barbecue central show so looking forward to talking with Chris and seeing what's new in the pellet world. We'll also talk about any new products that he might have coming up and what businesses like. I think we can all agree that from a very high level especially when it comes to backyard stuff I don't know if we've ever seen the show or the show of course but the industry at itself is Ben on such a high rise and everybody wants to be cooking the best barbecue and grilling the best foods possible. They're taking classes. They're finally investing in some really ah great cookers and with the increase in popularity of justice industry of course dictates that quality products are being made because quality products are being asked for now. You have a multitude of quality the products because everybody wants to be the pit master of their neighborhood or King King of their call the sack having a very tough time talking in the open here so we'll talk to Chris about all of that stuff he's a very accomplished apple's business person as well and cook and pellets is a huge business believe it or not so Chris Becker coming up in about eleven minutes and then we will move to thirty-five pass the first hour and I will turn Steve Ray for two three total segments I guess but twice in the same shell first hour then second hour thirty five past the first hour Stephen I will rejoin a talk that we had had a man. It's gotTa be four five five years ago. Perhaps it was the first time that Steve's ever been on the show and it was all spawned because at this time of year even a few months in advance of here where we are in the middle of July people really hitting the competition circuit getting out and doing catering jobs and they have these huge trailers and toy haulers. What do you see on social media blue? Tyra Axel fell off tragedy on the high. What's this tires gonNa cost me grand champion? I'm going to be showing up. I mean what could possibly happen or what do you need to do in order to give your best chance at not having this happened right and Steve this with as much barbecue grill acknowledges Steve is packed with and trust me just ask him. He is packed with plenty his real life profession. Is that <hes> of a service station owner so he knows maintenance he knows tires. He knows what needs to be done. In he has seen his lion's share of exactly the pictures that I'm talking about and that we have all kind of come to know and become numb of which is the axles falling off in the wheels blowing out all of that so we will talk a little bit about trailer maintenance tire maintenance and what you need to make sure her that you have accomplished before you leave for your event or your catering gay or your long barbecue vacation. Whatever so that Steve Right that'll round out the first hour then we will move into the second hour her and this is where we turn Steve for the second time in the show? He is of course one fourth. Dare I say twenty five percent of the embedded correspondents. That is the fourth Tuesday of the month so you know we are coming strong along with better correspondence and tonight we have a couple different topics talk about one that really gained momentum over the course of the last three weeks amongst our internal chat was hamburgers. We've talked talked a lot about hamburgers here on this show. We've talked a lot about hamburgers on this show. In general over the course of eleven and twelve years. We've had some top notch people come on and give us their take on hamburgers right from start to finish a whole pieces of meat and grinding down and fat ratios and Preparation Davidson no dividend St WanNa flip once twice ten times all that stuff and for whatever reason subject of Burgers hit home with embedded correspondents respondents and myself and we decided that we would do a little bit of a Burger Roundtable if you will and then we'll also throw in a little a galaxy topic is well. You're not familiar I may or may not get to that here in the next few minutes if not then possibly in the second hour so there you go embedded correspondence second hour as usual Steve Ray thirty-five past the first hour and Chris Becker coming up at about six and a half minutes from now to one six to two zero zero nine six six greg at the B._B._Q.. Central Show Dot Com your bits of contact information. Don't forget you could follow me socially get at me during the show or offshore hours instagram twitter at B._B._Q.. Central show slash facebook. If you WANNA follow me there as well you can also find video feed on facebook. You can also find a video feed on Youtube. If you like it their youtube of course I have the ability to watch a rolling chat on Youtube so little more eyeball on that but <HES> facebook live if you're happy to leave me comment during the show I won't see it as it's happening but I'll go back through and Bryan out after the show. Leave replies where I see fit so it's up to you. Stay there on facebook. If you want or hike on over to Youtube live I have the thing that I found interesting before I jumped on the earth catching a little bit of the Indians game as they're playing Toronto in Toronto and Youtube is carrying Major League baseball now they have a game of the week and it's very weird for the first time to watch a baseball game and then in between innings usually go right to the commercials. You have plenty of time to do whatever it is. You need to do get a drink of the bathroom. GRUB snack all of those three things and all of a sudden you're watching a game that has zero commercials in so soon as that third out is made now they're rocking and rolling off of talking to managers and sending their sideline reporter around the stadium unique interesting new look look I meant to mention this last week but getting mentioned on the Howard Stern show was tremendous and thanking the gentleman who turned my phone in were much more important than myself indulgence by the way do WanNa make a quick correction. I said that the instagram count of the guy that turned my phone last week. I said his name incorrectly. It's manic underscore vanity M. A. N.. I see I think as a maniac by hi mistake. I'm the Maniac David but at manic underscore vanity is the correct instagram handle so go ahead and give them a FAA follow if you're interested in some cool new urban fashions anyway a week ago I went to America's Roller Coast Cedar Point after there with my youngest that we rolled all the roller coasters that were open. There were a couple that were closed for maintenance. She is fearless at fourteen. I I continue to be fearless. A fresh forty-five-year-old and I wore my white barbecue central show t shirt and can you believe this not one person and Cedar Point stopped to recognize. It didn't stop me didn't give me sideways look not one. How can this be? Are you telling me that that one centralized was at Cedar Point on that very sabe Wednesday a week and a half ago. I can't believe trust me. I'm as approachable as they come. See my shirt a good chance if you're in Ohio and you see a barbecue central shirt. It's probably me just walk on over and say hi. I won't even expect that you would wanna do anything else than that. I might buy you a drink. You're telling me not one person out of the thousands and thousands and thousands of people that were at Cedar Point Not one person saw my barbecue central show shirt and thought that could be Greg Reputa- My Eagle won't allow me to believe I'll just figure that everybody was a little too intimidated. Just come up and say hi. I'm here to tell you very very approachable. Berry push of one of the people like we have Chris Becker coming up in just a minute hartsville hardware. The Twenty Nineteen Grill fast is happening September Twenty First Twenty nineteen all day long and and yours truly will be the show master of ceremonies all day long. We'll start in the morning. We'll go until the evening. There's traeger Grill Demos. There's Webber Grill Demos. There's Big Green Egg Grill Demos Daniel Bennett Diva Q. will be the one at the Traeger Demo. We're still waiting on WHO's coming up for the Weber and big green eggs. Demo horror is Lisa Delgado. She is a local Cleveland Chef. She does a little private chef being cooked for some of the Cleveland Browns. There's a whole bunch of stuff but evidently she has partnered in some former fashion with the big green egg so as soon as I figure out who that Weber person is going to be all pass that along and again diva Q. Obviously the main talent poll aside for myself and again I will be hosting the event or emceeing the event and while the demos are going on then it's like we're in show. I'm GonNa be asking Danielle and whoever the a Weber Rep is and this Lisa Delgado questions as they're cooked while you're doing that white temperature this temperature that what your favorite thing what but we'll be taking questions from the Audience September twenty first come on get down to Heart Ville Ohio. It's the largest hardware store of World Hart Bill Hardware Google it come on September twenty first we will be a rocking and rolling with the Q. and meet quite frankly. That's all you need but there's lots of other stuff going on there to three thou- thirty thousand three thousand square-foot grilling fires oh grill zone check them out. Look it up on Google Hartsville hardware September twenty first for grill fest two thousand nineteen and cooking pellets coming up broadcasting and cares teen live from the barbecues central shows studios in Cleveland Ohio. You're listening to the barbecues central show once again. Here's your host Greg Ram Betas. Hey this portion of the shell being brought to you by cook and Pallets Dot Com. What are the chances your number one source for quality wood pellets for all of your Pella driven cookers visit cooking pellets dot com for more information or to purchase in lieu of that you could also go to Amazon Dot Com if you want and they are buying out the state of Ohio believe it or not going to be like five fulfillment centers to or going up right now as we speak so that's cooking pellets dot com okay I N? Dan Cooking Pellets Dot Com all right if that site that lead in it and give it away we are talking to my first guest of the evening the creator of Cooking Pellets Dot Com Perspective C._B. Hari but I I am doing absolutely fabulous great to have you back on the show Chris so we can catch up and see what's happening in the world of Pallet so I guess let's start there from a high level as you look at the Lion Fire Industry Chris. I think you know if we look at competition. We could probably sit here and have a conversation of maybe the luster has started to fall off of the competition thing a little bit but when you look at the backyard and what I see on a day-to-day basis and people that I'm interacting with the fire industry I don't know if it has been more popular than it is right now and has been over the last couple years so as somebody who's in it and selling fuel into the industry amongst other things. How are you looking at? It's damn busy pal. Let me tell you I got. I I gotTA congratulate you over and above on me barbecue central show. I gotTa tell you get you've been around forever. We're proud supporter here but you've been around throw and then to get mentioned and stern what I know. Come on you know I'm best tallies with Jason Kaplan show producer. That's awesome good for you. That's that's great great. It was when we see we saw you last. No was a couple couple N. B._B._Q.. As ago when we were in Atlanta I believe that's sees it felt like yesterday. It's a whirlwind Greg. It's it's it's not easy so how's the pellet industry and what it's good. I can't complain you know we're we try to set ourselves off to the side of premium. You know we put it on the bag tag pellets or great. There's a lot of stuff out there. That isn't so great and and I I don't ask anybody stop. It's to each his own but we destroy making something and you know try making some. That's good for everybody. You can't be all things thanks to all people but we try so it's good. That's all say it's it's busy. It's good we're we're constantly striving do a little bit different than most others and I do yeah pretty well so when you're looking at building appellate for the masses or I guess the greater percentage of consumer trying to stay out of the niche or the premium. Perhaps how do you go about building that pellet. Do you think gives you the best shot at commanding that market. You know I gotTa tell you it doesn't always work. That's the first thing it's trial and there and we we came up with a pellet of the end of last year was a sweet maple Pellett and pellet was good. God didn't travel well. We couldn't get we couldn't we couldn't make the pellet good enough to where it stayed together and traveled while in the problem is we we don't like dot so when people get it to their house and the bags got a lot more elston are normal product that doesn't work while so because of that and I think you even got some of those pellets but because of that we we actually discontinued it and that's not cheap to do but we'd rather you have a better product something that has low dust a good B._T.. You were higher be to than anybody we have tons of reports to show that but the point is we'd rather make good product and take a product of way. It doesn't work so well so we only stay up at a level premium so what causes appellative degrade in shipping is. They're not enough internal stickiness or or what what's it's kind of a collective of things simply put some pellets. Don't hold her some woods. Don't hold moisture really well like we we make there's three things in in appellate its moisture would and the malignant or that natural binder that heaps and altogether so <hes> and and we have to have moisture so it producer good smog obviously you need would and and then the Licnen ben which is it's natural binder that is in all would and when you make pellet a hundred ninety five degrees kind of exudes out a little bit and when it pushes through the Diet twenty tons of pressure that's that Shiny Service on the outside side they use it altogether internally and out that's actually Licnen and that collectively in a weird chemistry way. If you lose sight of one of those a little bit they kind of goes away so our problem was as the moisture contents. We couldn't keep it up well enough. We thought it was an en- shipping and not that it went away. It just didn't make a really strong pellet so it makes a <unk> gets dusty. It just doesn't work so does that. Pellet have that shiny exterior initially in fades or do you have pellets. Yes most pellets do it through shipping they get they get bounced around the roughed offer. We have a pretty specific science at how doers are perfect mix has been the same for like seven years now and it it's like a guarded secret battalion to vaults small Doberman and <hes> <hes> you know smaller guy with machine. I mean we were very protective of it but the point is that there's a recipe that we do with everything and that's what makes the pellet a little better because when people buy it when you know it. There's not a lot there but pellets. There's a little dust. You can't get away from it. It's a natural occurrence and when they get bounced around but when he gets excessive we don't like that so we just stop so. Do you have a a <music> as it's coming through the extruder or my saying that right. Is there like a blade. That's like chopping it into predetermined sizes. I I guess <hes> the the long way of the question is do you have a specific size pellet that you shoot for because I assume there's some kind of a shaking thing that happens to separate out one size from the other something like that too so I in short there is Canada cut late on it. It's a wiper blade and there's a couple of things that happen. The mill runs at a certain speed pushes pellets did the die and sometimes pellets are a little smaller sometimes. They're a little longer mostly. There of the size opened an intention a half inch and a quarter but sometimes are smaller when we first startup because we have to get things Kinda tuned in to get them all like sync together so the pellets you're still God. It doesn't make a difference whether you're pellets are half inch or an inch in a quarter. They're all GONNA burn. The same. There really is no difference so but we tried getting a consistency for weight. That's really what it is. We have too much hell it small ones intellectually overfill the bag for the linus up so you know it's all part of it. You know it's kind of like baking. You WanNa make sure you get a teaspoon not a couple uh of something when it calls for at least so it takes a little bit of you know that first startup takes a little bit of getting going and then it makes it perfect. The pellets are still good but sometimes they're a little smaller sometimes a little longer depending on that sweep arm council Chris there was a we're talking with Chris Becker from cooking pets.com C._O._O.. K. I. N.. COOKOUTS DOT COM. I want to ask you about your APP here in just a second but I don't know it was like a handful of years ago. I think it was still when Mr Barbecue was not doctor but Mr Barbecue was still traeger are and there was patents about flavoring oil for wood pellets. Is that like a common practice that you know is that just something that was out there. Maybe they held the pans and they never actually used anything like that or how does so greg. I can't I can't verify can't quantify you know there's a lot of here saying so trigger had this idea of flavoring base one yes <hes> then Okan Alder is fine when it comes to smoking in a stick burner but there's a different chemical structure when he gets turned into a pellet it gets turned into more fuel and that means a toddler. It doesn't give off as much smoke not saying it's a bad pellet. I'm just saying that it changes the profile a little bit different when it gets turned into a pellet so one of the first things that we discovered we've been doing this going on fifteen years now for pellets just just for the cooking industry we don't make heating pellets but what we learned it as if it was something that is based in turns into a fuel it makes for Hotter Cook and less small man. That's less labor so that's we don't use any the overall her now on the oil side. We don't use that. We don't flavor anything. I've heard that they tried flavoring base pellets of an organ alder whenever it was to try getting some I don't I don't know what they used used an oil that could have been in Hickory oil or a Cherry Wood Oil Detroit getting that taste out of there. I don't want they still do it. You can never hear anything out of the BIG TEAKAMP so sure right but I mean I didn't know. Just I mean in a somebody who was in the industry and I would imagine that most pellet manufacturers no other pellet manufacturers if that's just like a thing that's talked about or a common practice but I guess not. It's not a common practice we we in fact we stopped accusing oils and only use a water to cool used to us. We used to use a soy oil to to cool very small amount in per tonne like a court per ton on to help. Keep the dike cool and what we found is. We can use water to do the same thing so it's a little bit harder on the die we end up turning the die over and making new die sooner because the would is very hard on the Diet takes the sharpness away and and sometimes when you get our pellets sometimes they're wander. Sometimes they're darker to same pellet. The differences die is a little older so it will toast the pellet slightly. That's really why they get colored so but daughter the lubricant pretty much all right Chris Becker joining the here on the show so let's talk quickly about the APP I tell people during the read you should go and download the APP from somebody who is <hes> obviously a crucial component of the whole process <hes>. What's the what's the wind to download the free APP so nothing at this point? What are you talking about? This guy's a great sales guy everybody. We're actually revamping the at all I I'll tell you that it's not going to be a long stretch before I come back because I mean you know we liked talking and we need to do this more often. I apologize for not being able to but we're actually revamping the APP in other websites sites been revamped and that was about a year and a half ago and we're redoing the APP but when we get the APP done we're going to be offering those APP lunar. Sorry those APP users deal that is you'll only get on the APP better deals than you'd get off of Amazon. I tell you go to a checker dealer page and look for dealers. I are dealers cost for pellets or always cheaper than Amazon guaranteed so if you don't have Amazon's great secondary but the dealers are always I go to <hes> and then as far as the apples there's going to be allows specials on there that will be able to who push that we're going to be doing so as that gets closer the APP being done <hes> some cool stuff some new things on hot cook certain things how to Cook certain foods with our pellets and you'll be able to use the APP more actually actually use the just kinda scroll through information. You'll be usable east all right so in talking with the pellets. Obviously you know there are the flagship flavors and standbys that you have but you're also a guy that isn't necessarily content with just sticking with that. You always liked to develop something new or as you talked about with these maple pilots try something a little different. There was that Apple Mash Pellet that was out last year the year before so what's new in the pellet world for you so we're we're. We're still working on you know we did. We released then I hate to say it but but and we're still working on it. We released a wine Pellett and this isn't a wind barrel pellet hugely different a wind bureau Pellett and they'll be the first to say it gives you know flavor of wine whatsoever allow wine barrels very little bit of wine that touches the actual barrel. It's Kinda like when you buy whiskey Berle pellets now that a lot of whiskey that touches that barrels oh you're buying old we we have a different process that we use and <hes> we did a sample of the one of the wine pellets and we got rid of like twelve tonnes in like a couple of weeks. It was ridiculous. The problem is our supply so we're working at the supply again white think we have something that's finalized coming up your clothes and we're going to start making our wind poets again. So are you buying line and then making like are you literally buying wine and then somehow incorporating that into the Pella baking I tell you it's damn it's damn close to that right now. I gotTA deal with this but it's kind of like that yeah. We're we're doing it a little bit different way but if you and I don't know if you try it we send to any wine pellets and we had it and it was very short I mean a couple of camps used it and and so really a lot of our base dealer customers had bought up some and win in a flash and it was very good and it ended smells tastes like a wine but so we're working on that we're also working to do in some some videos for the website <hes> that will go along with blogs. We're looking at a book right now. We're just starting to work on the hat. And we're we're doing less stuff so let me let me ask you. There's a topic that we're going to be running within the second hour burgers so aside from being in the business of live fire I mean I know you're fairly accomplished cook because you've done a bunch of videos and all that so. Do you have a favorite way to make a Burger I do. Let's I will tell you in a Qu- INC at quick and simple I love so I look prime rib burgers. I am lucky enough to have a local butcher that will actually make me prime rippers. He does about a seventy thirty six seventy percent prime thirty percent regular a good ground beef and I then slather it. Once I make the Patty I soak in <hes> and I make numerous daddy's five or six at a time am I separate it with lax paper and that I put them in your paper and let them sit for a couple of days slathering with a garlic olive oil either one that I make restore bought but a very good garlic olive oil and I leave it sipped for a couple of days and then I make burgers and salt and pepper only and I'm telling you they're amazing do you do you add in any percentage of fat hat along with Brown that I get is Kinda fat portion of it I thirty but when I when he mixes that with the prime cause the prime doesn't add a lot of fat in it so between the seventy thirty the prime it's actually a pretty light burger but then when you add the Al It's light on fat. I'm sorry and then we had the olive oil in there. Can adds a little bit of that fat base back to it on telling you you gotta try just just douse the burger with olive oil of good flavor dollar Boya Tuscan flavor Italian herbs garlic and allegiance it for a couple of days and then Cook and Oh my gosh so what's your cooking process. What do you like? I am a three in a corner guy until they're done and my burgers. Are you know I do it. Good three-quarter Inch Burger and <hes> I like a good medium rare medium burger so I am a three three twenty five three fifty guy and it's about a twenty minute so it's not not a quick process G. R. U.. cheeseburger simple condemed guy or where you draw cheeseburger and and another thing we can talk doc about another time has smoked gap smoke Katcha but you know you know if I could bottle it. We be bazillionaires. Just advertise it here so I'm telling you smoked kitchen or are you have no idea takes takes catch up to the plane of awesome stupid now. Are you a Grill Bun Guy Postal Bun. I guess I know I don't I like a good in fact act. I don't usually eat my mate with a bond. Believe it or not. I'll have a Prince Obama on the side but I like the meat to his own. I don't like makes it but I don't usually put a lot of cabinets on it unless it's it's a black and Blue Burger Baluchi black and blue cheese burger that you know good hearty thick crispy bacon with blue cheese. That's the only time I put it in a little bit of smoke at up muster mustard down there a very light pats the taste of the me all right last question Chris before I let you go and I appreciate the time and this is a huge subject. Actually Jimmy Q. and instantchat is kind of leading the charge here but I figure I'll ask at a different way. You're hearing all all over C._B._D.. Oil C._B._D.. Pallets are coming down the pike true or false so I will tell you this quick now see if you have C._D.. B._B. Pellets the problem is the pellet will burn off the oil the I will tell you go this fact I may licensed grower in the State of Wisconsin really yes for pellets a year funny guy no. I'm allies in the State of Wisconsin Nice so and and I gotTa tell you there's a lot of oily pellets in our place so generally what I find is the pellet will burn off any oil insignificant for a good use. I don't I don't I don't they can do it. I don't. I don't think it's worthwhile. I don't I think the pellet will Bernie oil off of the heat will burn it off before there's any positive outcome and I'd be the first one and trust me. We'd play. I play a lot of C._B._D.. Takes I am a proponent. I believe in an honor percent. We Talk Radio. I tell you you know I eight years old. I look good for that. Look at you day over ninety five for trying to be T._V._d.. Jeez Oh Pete Chris Becker joining me here on the shell the website of course could compel. It's dot com longtime supporter here of the show which we certainly appreciate Chris always appreciate the time thanks so much from thanks Greg congrats on stop. You aww thank you sir. That's Chris Becker right there on the barbecue central show finally I realized how to get all of my channels in my main feed here the keep flipping back layers God again. That's Chris Becker C._B._D.. Pellets I thought that was kind of a throwaway question. But what do I always say my throwaway. Questions always seemed to garner. The best reaction aren't so crazy good job Jimmy Q.. I see guy the cooking Santa's in there as well welcome guy. Hey why don't you both stopover too big POPPA smokers right now in stock up for for all your barbecue needs especially with those great spices and rubs. There's thirteen in total perfectly balanced flavors. They will turn your ordinary meals to extraordinary also they are tied tied up with that steph Franklin character from simply marvelous barbecue they have formed the west coast offense when use those two products together use them however you want and invent your own west coast offense they also <music> own granny's barbecue sauce looking for new go-to barbecue possible please everyone why not try granny's barbecue now side from the rubs and sauces they are selling a number of different cookers out there of of course big pop drums smoker which everybody loves they also where if you had the ability to get a drum itself you can just by their conversion kit. They are the exclusive online Mac dealer for the Mac Pellet cookers even offer special packages is if you are more of a charcoal cooker guy the old Hickory Ace B._p.. Is the one you might WanNa look at actually the only charcoal smoker the big patrols on his competition trailer plenty other ones choose. If you're not sure what you need give them a call at eight seven seven eight a two eight hundred seventy seven. That's eight seven seven eight to eight zero seven two seven and in competition out I think he was off this past weekend but sterling has tied up to Grand Championships in a row so congratulations to sterling sterling and James the website big pop smokers dot com that's B. I.. G. P. O. P. P. SMOKERS DOT COM. We are back with Steve Ray of debris midnight oil sick right back continuing leading to produce incredibly mediocre content in an exceptionally professional land. You're listening and watching the barbecues central show once again. Here's aroused greg ramp. Welcome back this portion of the shell being brought to you by butcher barbecue makers of award-winning marinades rubs injections seasonings barbecue sauces grilling oils all the barbecue products tested on the competition Titian circuit as well as in backyards worldwide be the master of your neighborhood and which B Q dot Com stock up right now always trust your butcher and speaking of butcher barbecue all too was own dealer <hes> Barbecue and the owner Steve Raise Midnight Oil Steve Ray joining to here on the show Steve Harvey Buddy. Hey Greg appreciate you doing a little double duty here. We're going to talk a little real life man stuff and then we're GONNA turn you back into the second hour and we'll do the embedded correspondent stuff so this is the serious now because we're talking about. I mean certainly one could get their hands on a ill manufactured pellet or perhaps one. That's been soaked in a little C._B._D.. A._B._D. oil and it's not exuding the proper effects that you might have been hoping but this is not that's not life changing stuff but this certainly could be and we're talking about <hes> vehicle maintenance and specifically trailer stuff that I had mentioned in the open in Steve You know this is the time of year even a couple months ago you start seeing more and more competitors the teeth of the summer now thinking in and they're really starting to hit the circuit and as you now Steve being a competitor that's not a <hes> <hes> the out of question to go thousands of miles to take part in a barbecue competition and you're driving thousands of miles back home towing something along behind your big four wheel drive and now you see the pictures <hes> tires shredded. It's <hes> tipped over on the side of the road. I mean things could go awry real quick and my thought and I think that's kind of how we originally got together. Steve was how can I see this many of what appears to be the same thing there there has to be something that can be done to prevent it and we did a segment a number of years ago and I thought it'd be good to Kinda. Pull back out and refresh it for the folks are going to be running up and down the summer or at least for the balance of the summer here depending on where you live so. Let's start right off at the top you have these toy hollers. You have these trailers that are for the convenience of the cooker and I WanNa make sure that this thing is in the greatest shape possible. Do you believe Steve that. People think that this maintenance just kind of skips the mind or it's not on the front burner for whatever there's not a wobble or Shamir shake so they just don't think about until something drastic has happened because everything's fine when they pulled back in you know gabby thinking about this again Greg Watch on facebook in Richard Fergal Fergal issues barbecue posted pictures he had a a hub bearing <hes> that went off on on the trailer break Axel of his <hes> Cook trailer the barren seized used on it and left him on the side of the road and you know the the problem with the the cooker or these triggers we all have is you know they're they're pretty the heavy anyway but then we add like <hes> like Richard <hes> he's cooking Okinawa myron mixing forty eight. That's nine hundred pounds on the back plus all the stuff that he's got inside. That's more weight more weight more weight and then you build up heat specially on that on on that actual. That's got the trailer break on and and if you don't have the if you don't have that thing greased every time you come back in your just asking I mean you are just asking for trouble. I've got I've got a little picture. I hear I wanted to show you but see on on this. One right here Greg right there. That's a that's a <hes>. That's an axe opening is kind of held up but you can see the Gauls in it. I don't know if you can if you can see that it's it's called real bad. Do you want me to try it on my side. Steve Yeah Yeah. That's that's that's that's fantastic. <hes> all those lines there are are heat laws. That's that's a good axel. There is right to the bad one a look where all the knicks and all the goals are in it it <hes> that's where he has gone bearing his seized up on it and one happens then is that a spindle is no good and you have to cut it off and rewelded new one on their or you're the bolt on kind. You had to take it off and you have to bolted on there but that's a that's the disaster <hes> that's like one of the worst ones I've ever seen right there. So <hes> in you know that's stuff is avoidable greg just by simply really maintaining that trailer most of the trailers go back to that other one on first one that she had up there. It looks like the brand new one and <hes> C._C.. A nice that one is got the it's got the buddy bearing on it. It's got the <hes> <hes> the nut out. There's real fresh has got a cotter pin. He's got a grease fitting. You can see where the grease comes out of the hall. That's a <hes> that looks like a rear a break spin right there but see the grease comes out of the holy goes in and <hes> comes out of the holes in Greece's the baron drill good in it is so easy to maintain because at greetings right on the annual you had to take the tire off the trailer in but yet we forget to do that and <hes> I've had I've had my trailer <hes> probably just two years and I've already taken the wheels off of it twice on your own suspected on on my food trailer and expected this spindles and repack the bearings <hes> you just hitting hitting the grease ports air in check those <hes> rear the rear. The rear axle breaks for anywhere because I'm down you man you when you when you're breaking down and you've got all that stuff on that trailer just like Richard It. It's a disaster yet to. Eh You know the one trailer. The one wheel was just not enough <hes> support to take the trailer into Limpid Indiana Tab tone and expensive know about <hes> so is there a when we talk about maintenance maintenance on cars <hes> for instance oil change. I think I'm sure that's up for debate too but the the classic mileage is three thousand miles and then go in and change your order. If you have partial synthetic you might be able to roll out a little more full synthetic might be able to roll and more blitz used three thousand just for ease of numbers. Is there a certain amount of mileage on tires in the wheels and the axles and all the stuff that you're talking about that you would want to check excellent question on a on a trailer twenty thousand miles on the tires dump. They'll look good but what you'll happen. What'll happen? Is those trailers you know they sit more than you're driving in. The worst thing to do for tires is to let him sit because they dry rot the cracks in them specially Ashley trailer tires because they're even though their radios they're heavy plot tires are usually six or ten pie tires and that rubber tends to breakdown believe it or not quicker than a rate aradio tire on your automobile and because so much weight is on those tires they started to get cracks in them and if you can pull up that one picture I sent of Harrison holding up that <hes> that tire. I don't know if you've got it or not. I you can see where there it is. You can see how that carcass just exploded off the off the tire in the actual the the actual side of that Tire Greg stayed on the Rim and the carcass actually came off of the tire higher so you so this person came in with a trailer the tire was on the the wheel and the tire was still on the trailer in the tire. The wheel had the inside of the tire the the sidewalls but that was left that when he came in and we just pulled that off by hand that's just like the top cap yeah and you look at the tread. You'd look at that tread. If you're if you're doing a walk around inspection you'd look at that tread and go okay. It looks okay but but see that integrity agree that rubber broke down and then Kabun would always you know when you get a little bit of wait a little bit of heat a little bit of speed that's when they explode and I mean they will just explode and <hes> man you're on the side of the road in. I always tell people if a voice from heaven came down and said Greg if you had paid me four hundred fifty bucks would that have made you not want to be on the side of the road. You've said yes sir it would because that's about what it costs you all your your brakes and your bearings packed in that sort of thing. You know it's <hes> you say it's a lot of money upfront but then when you're sitting on the side of I seventy five between Atlanta and <hes> Dares Ville and waiting on the record Akam man you know four and fifty bucks. You're thinking that was nothing I wish I'd done is this also matter of making sure that you have proper tire inflation and this is gonNA deviate from the question. I just asked but I apologize but I don't WanNA forget it. Is there a easy ability to <hes> you know once you get this trailer. It's rated for a certain amount of weight you know being in the industry you know to a certain degree. I think I have a good idea here but if you buy that <hes> like that trailer that's behind you assume that you're trailer certain weight Mt and then you know it can be rated for X. and then you start throwing all this other stuff into it. I mean are most of these guys. Pushing overweight no not so much because it is a tandem maxwell trailer but let me tell you what the biggest mistake is. People look on your trailer when you buy that trail. When you look at the owner's manual it's going to give you recommended inflation for your tires? Your tire size is going. I'll tell you what tire size and what plied run and it's going to tell you what <hes> amount of air to put in the tire. What people do they look on the Tire Greg and he'll say maximum air pressure eighty pounds yeah? That's the maximum that's wrong. Aw That's not where you find much air to put in your tires your do you put your air. You'll look at that sticker on that trae or in your owner's manual it'll say sixty five pounds. It may say fifty sometimes they'll even deviate from the front tire you're to the rear tire on the front axles. They want sixty five on the rear axles. They may want seventy five. That's very important you don't WanNa put the maximum amount of air because that makes those things oblong an egg and and they will wear out a lot quicker in the integrity of that tire will break down even faster than if you had the maintain the right amount of pressure now. I'm seeing some people <hes> talking about dry rot in the instant chat room here so I mean that's that's a again a thing where you wanNA keep the trailer. Moving is as often as possible or other things that you can do to prevent dry like tire covers. If it's going to be sitting or something like this yeah you can. You can do that Greg. Some people like I know when I store mine. I'll put the Jacksonville hundred and take the weight off the tires that certainly helps but twenty thousand miles on a trailer tire is about all you want and I know the big the big teams. They say that's a year that's right. That's a year but what's the the difference if you're if you're on the side of the road with a tie that's blown out that shredded a bet you wish you to retire in it went by the twenty the twenty thousand mile rule. That's they're not. They're not car tires. They're not built like car tires. They're stronger bigger than car tires but but the integrity of the rubber I don't think is as good as a car tire and they will break down. When we talk about the maintenance here in Greece <hes> specifically do you recommend certain Greece like a <hes> zero base Greece or number to Greece or something in between there? Is that something that the manufacturers GonNa call out in. There may not looking for euro confer just L._B.. Lube it'll come in Greece gun. It'll coming a big <hes> thirty five gallon barrel <hes> sometimes at your service station <hes> we have a portable gun that we just take out. It's got a hand pop on it. It's very easy to use and you don't you know you don't WanNA loaded up. You don't WanNa get start squeezing an an agenda. I just makes a big mess and then you'll have Greece on the outside of your your wheel. I could splatter like something's wrong. It just takes a little bit but but in that's good to do in between in inbetween trips and a and <hes> you know for subtle maintenance but once a year when you get in maybe after the comp season's over pull those wheels off and pick those bearings out in what I even do is like next year. I'll replace the hub assembly on the front axle online and on the break exelon mine. I'll actually take the whole off. I'll go down to the next exit where there's a northern tools in they carry all of these hubs in stock and I'll buy them. It's not a bad idea to go down there and buy them in just taking with you in case you do need them because there there you go down there. You can match them up. They've got numbers on all this stuff. That comes off trailer has serial numbers on and it's all a universal serial number in a northern tools. Everybody's got northern tool bomb. They have probably the best selection of mass produced actual parts in the nation in just grab a couple of extra ones grab a couple of extra. <hes> lug nuts <hes> a couple a hub assembly <hes> you don't have to get both up. Just get one chances of both of them going at the same time. We're very rare. Get one get that break hub. The break hub is the one that's the one that goes back all the time because that's where all the eat is Abbott break-up in take it with you. Put it in a box and <hes> that way if you if you do have to make the repair on the side of the road it is possible if you've got the parts if the bearing hasn't seized to the spindle where won't come off you can fix it on the side of the road in in a in a timeout of about an hour so <hes> you know sometimes that's the difference between <hes> being inconvenienced and then having to put that trailer upon a rollback in spending eight hundred fifty dollars for the tow just to get shop but is the is the fix easy like if we're going. I always trying dumbed down to where I would start I mean I think we've all figured out at this point. I'm not necessarily the most handy guy in general. We talked about the whole Tyre thing there a couple of months ago but is this something that you know I would be able to do or I mean. Do you have to have some kind of wits about you. In order to make these repairs number one you have to have the right tools okay and and in my car gosh so I'd take tools with I've always got the right tools you could you could do it in the thing about it. Is You could go on Youtube on your phone and you can figure it out if you had to write tool but even if you had to have the trailer towed Greg. You'd have the part for the technician say if it was like a Saturday afternoon and they had their be. They had their be technician there in the shop the guy had gone home. The B guy could still fix it if he's got the party you look at the old one said said okay. This is how it works. You've got the new Oh okay is that works. Take it off. Put It on the spindles nice and smooth. Maybe get a little every paper smooth up that spend a little bit or that race in that where the race of the ban ride on it and then you're you're heading down the road <hes> after your competitions over your home a little bit late but at least you're getting home and you don't have to go back to where you left trae earlier a couple days later pick it up Steve where you're going to be competing at for the balance of the year anything on the agenda Yeah my next one is actually in September. It is at a fourteenth at the Blue Gray Competition Chicken Maga Georgia and then we after that we've got a little marr-johnson classic here Utah so we're looking forward to that are are you still on board with the world championships just as the fan you like it still yeah absolutely I'm looking forward to it. I follow it on facebook. <hes> there's so many posts. You can't hardly keep up with it. It's like everybody says some of that stuff confuses me but I'll keep up with it in Dallas. I'm I'm a big Fan. I'm really interested in the barbecue. I think the I think <hes> Mike Scott the barbecue aspect of this thing figured out now. Do you like the fact that it's moved almost every year over the last a couple of years I mean I know state in Alabama for what by maybe two or three years and then it was in Florida for one year and then I think it moved somewhere else prior to moving from Las Vegas we do you think is just growing pains of a new sport yeah yeah well well. It's a business for him. I mean that's his business and he's looking for the best deal. He's looking for the biggest bang for his buck and <hes> of all the places he's been of course Vegas Vegas big but Dallas's <hes> it's big in a different way and I I think I think it's a better fit arch. Beach Arch Beach was is Nice Greg. It's a weird. It was weird place to have that it wasn't <hes> there's not a lot of touristic came through there is it was just weird and I think Dallas is more of a cities. He's a big city setting. I think where he needs to be in Dallas. You're you know it would I would love. I would love to go down there because it's <hes> it's going to be cool now. If you get to go that the barbecues fine everything's fine but I'm telling that kitchen arena man that's the place to be those guys are talented people. They are fun to watch Steve where people find you if they are need of maintenance and they happened to be traveling through the Greater Chattanooga Area Steve Raise midnight night oil right on I seventy five on exit eleven six four three eleven eleven. You can find us on facebook Steve Raise midnight all you can contact us there and easy get a hold of we've got record service. If you need to towed in we can help you there. We stop tires northern tool suggested on the street for we grab our spindles and we can get you going all right. Steve always appreciate the time here and quick grab a quick beverage because we're GONNA need about another fifteen minutes. It sounds good growth areas Steve Ray on the maintenance side of things right now and then he will turn into the that's not the right thing he'll turn into the Tennessee embedded correspondent in about fifteen minutes so a lot of great information there from Steve and if you are again interested in getting hold the Steve Steve Raise midnight oil on facebook and if you're her happened to be traveling down the highway near La or Chattanooga guesses the big name city. That's a by Boudoir. Stop in for preventative maintenance but on the off chance that you you are need assistance. He's there set record sir as huff. Daddy is pointing out in the instantchat. Steve Ray is the second longest running embedded correspondent of the barbecue central so let Steve Ray from Steve Raise midnight oil with the trailer maintenance great stuff and while it's a great learning experience to see you taking taking pictures of your tires or seized axles we would rather not have to see that let that be thing that's starting to grow in the past. Do your preventative maintenance Greece your bearings pack your spindles than bearings things break axles and go to the northern harbor fate and get that stuff so you're ready to make quick repair like Ralphie's dad in Christmas story boys fancied himself on the NASCAR pits throughout the first hour right after this around big name interviews advice on cooking brisket and ribs and the L._A.. Host willing to share as honest opinion on all things important in the world barbecue. It's Hugh Central Show right. Welcome back by the way special thanks to Jason King for the logo featured in c taking up the whole picture now now. I had obviously piss Jason off enough long enough for him to make me a correction. Thank you Jason.

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The Bitcoin Podcast #294-Richard McDaniel aka NghtRppr

The Bitcoin Podcast

1:06:45 hr | 9 months ago

The Bitcoin Podcast #294-Richard McDaniel aka NghtRppr

"Now entering guy cast mandatory online. So Yeah Hello You're about to be hit with another one of a kind bitcoin. PODCAST interview view Today we're joined with. Oh Man Korea feel like. I'm honored honored to be joined by this person. Because he's he's been space longtime and Robert Richard mcdaniel Aka Night Ripper Aka Lord of War Aka. Og Of the OJ Aka. BITCOIN STACK IS SUPREME AKA TACO fruit. Taker you always wanted to. I just keep saying Aka I did. I did Richard Welcome to the show man. How you doing? I'm good. Thanks for having me. It's just started like this. This is even more fun to ask you. Why how did you get into this? And how long occupant in it and kind of give people quick introduction as like who you are yes so I heard about bitcoin. In in December of two thousand and nine. It was cross posted from the Cypher. PUNKS mailing list to the tour mailing list and the reason why is because they had just added support for tour to it and I thought it was a really interesting project I had been following the discussion around spam email for many years at even heard of Hash cash and penny black before and You know I kind of forgot about it for a couple of months and then six months later version three came out and I remembered about the project and I said Oh will this is going to be big so a new head to get some and the rest is history. There's so much there's so much rest they're got it. Yeah you're like real relic quite early. You were saying right before we got started like you were. You've been around since before the majority of the big names that are still relevant today. Kind of kind of yet My My bitcoin talk. Ide- is three sixty nine. Saito Toshi's is three Just means that I've been registered at those forms. Of Of course people had been following the mailing lists way longer than the forms at even been around. There is another popular form before Bitcoin Talk. But it's the oldest surviving one Are you greg right now. I'm kidding yeah no So do you have conversations with the Toshi at all before he took off or did you. Did you ever comment on any of his stuff or did he talk to you at all. Okay okay yeah I I kind of knew enough to be dangerous but it was all over my head. I was still a computer science student and trying to figure it all L. Out. I kind of understood the game theory part better than I did. That cryptography and I was a libertarian. So still am and that that kind of what drew me me too in the first place The the liberty dollar guy just got busted e gold was getting shut down. There is a lot of Uncertainty uncertainty around the legalities of that space. And that was I was more of a black hat. Hacker back then so that didn't bother me. Why like you did you? Were you were off the moderator or still are maybe in Dick Quite talk fun no I retired Yeah I was Politics section moderator moderator. which is a very thankless job in Especially since I tried to moderate it in in in a way that made sense for the politics section. I tried to make sure that there were no circular arguments like if page eight of the thread looked like page three at kind of just closed it down and of course that that made a lot of people mad because they were happy to sit there and argue forever but I was trying to encourage productive conversation and Eventually just got to be too much work for me so I just resigned. What what's that like? Was it like watching this stuff but blow up Kinda right like your been around early. Then you've seen seen all the ridiculous hype cycles from the beginning to where we are now and the kind of somewhat repetitive waves of people and their mentalities as they go through these cycles come in each time and and potentially different differentiations with each cycle. It was it like can you. Can you talk about a little bit. Yeah I think it's Similar to any technology. There's a a lot of early. High people are really excited to use it and then they try to deploy it to production and they they hit reality and realize it. A lot of the stuff isn't ready for prime time yet. It's very nation the. US is horrible. You gotTA use a lot of console commands so then reality hits them and third kind of interest wanes and tapers is often then it gets reignited again A lot of things is just technology. needs to catch up faster. Internet connections Moore. You know Moore's ars processing power larger hard drives. Were like far away like how so from then into now. Would you say that. There's been a lot of progress made or just a lot of high dollar lipstick on bigger piles piles of Shit like. Would you like wait a minute. I is it getting better or are we just like covering up the inefficiencies. He's better and better over top from technically. I think things are getting getting better But I think the biggest the biggest gains have been from the legality in the beginning. It was kind of seen as a bunch of hackers with a Ponzi scheme to the point. Now that it's no one owns it. It's more of a natural resource so governments are not really trying to shut it down the just trying to figure out how they can make use of it. Yeah I'm trying to make Moola off based on that. How do you see it? Yeah Hey moving forward within the next one to five ears Assuming that the government is performing its intended function. Where if the people want something? Then it's the government tries to give it to them or at least get other way and and make sure that everything is fair. I think the Bitcoin is in pretty good shape eight. It's kind of like the SEC's take on it. They just want everyone to have informed consent and make sure that they're playing by the same rules as everyone else. They're not really trying to be a king. Would you say you're like what would you say your maximalist Yeah I'm I'm a anything maximalist really I think we only need one internet. I don't WanNa have to get on a separate Internet talk to Russia. I only want one subscription service. I don't WanNa own Disney plus and Hulu Netflix. And all that I just want to go one place so yeah I am a maximalist. That being said there's plenty of reasons to use something other than Bitcoin. Only can. Bitcoin do what you WanNa do right now. And and if it can't then maybe tests net isn't really what you need. Maybe WanNa do something with real money and That's where other chains can come in. Would would you. This is a big question for our sponsors than Coca Cola Pepsi because if you only like one kind of colour yeah I questioned that You know the challenge. Is that a real thing. Do do people really care. I think I think people just like to be finicky. They just WANNA be able to say oh. I like this better than that breath there. Do they really care. Yeah Eh usually drive to the next town to get Pepsi. Will they actually drive there. I know my pops gets mad. At Pepsi like Biz by angry. That's assist but he's interesting interesting man so I guess so. Since you've been in Bitcoin this long. How big is your island no I I went through my new money as already? So very materialistic. Let's face I tried. tried to be the the Johnny appleseed so I gave a lot of it away early on and made a lot of silly trades I bought crisis two for ninety bitcoin stuff like that. Well that's like you had to have that because at the time it was a reasonable decision. Right like it's not you have to have people using it got to where it was or where it is. Yeah Yeah I I made the decision looking at where I thought bitcoin was going to go and I had a plan. There is a certain amount that I will. I'll never set sail. Excuse me there's a certain amount that I'll never sell I'm just gonNA pass that along. I don't keep that on me. Obviously for operational security but I I live comfortably. I can kind of just do whatever I want. I still keep a job because because I like coding and I like solving problems I kind of steer towards more philanthropic projects. The one that I'm working at right now is is trying to give Health care and other benefits. The hourly workers that traditionally don't get those kind of benefits so it's really rewarding to still work every day it is. It's Nice it's nice to be able to work. It's something that you're passionate about. As opposed to be maybe stuck get something that pays the bills. But you're not terribly fond of doing you. Just kind of an interrupt. They're like that type of freedom is something that a lot of people would would love to the have but it's very difficult to achieve. Yeah and I'm a senior software engineer so I'm highly paid anyways e even if I never got into Bitcoin and I've also made a lot of money off of other projects the the Lord of war pseudonym with is probably one of the more profitable ones. So what is what does that do I it was a I sold Solta bought for an Emo so you wouldn't have to grind. Oh Wow war. Fighter Glider was for world of warcraft and It was similar to that and the reason why I stopped releasing it as is the the reason why glider stopped because Blizzard entertainment sued them and won a lawsuit for six million dollars so the writing was on the wall that I needed to get out of there at Blizzard was definitely not happy with bought. I mean I think every single one of their game has had a rich bought economy behind it and the Quite a bit resources trying to stop it. Yeah and For me that would bother bothered me. Most was that they claim that cheating on video video game was a DMCA violation which is kind of kind of weird to say. The cheating at game is stealing the game. Yeah the AD doesn't make that doesn't make sense. So so what do you do. What are you doing crypto? Now you've been in so long. Are you just like a quiet quiet observer. You're just like oh just look at them go or are you still active. What do you do you actively doing if you are contributing Yeah I obviously You know I'm the CTO of Sixteen Thirty Digital Sa- blockchain fund but in the space itself. I've been involved with one project or another. I've built to bitcoin exchanges. I worked with Kevin Bombay. No he was seed round investor in crack in and armory wallet. We worked on a double entry bookkeeping system for Bitcoin to help you. Pay Your your bitcoin taxes. I think that it's been rebranded as coin tracking now I was coined reporting corn tracking dot INFO Yeah I've just yeah I think that's it that's great service yeah I worked on an updated version that used no jay S in angular and kind of those modern web technologies. I think it's still running on. HP Right now though gotTa love that is that your is that your over the over the years you've seen a lot of the technology change how and the experience of using crypto has changed dramatically dramatically dramatically drill gratitude massively dramatically since like even even before bitcoin talks started. I mean it's it's changed one. How like it's lower the barrier of people to get in which has up and downs but instead it's necessary for any type of adoption it's drastically increase the security of How you hold bitcoin and not lose it or any other digital asset associated crypto currency? Like has that been fun to to watch Tulsa that Experience Back Day of actually most of our I think most of our listeners. Nearly as old as the even the three of us explain how difficult it was to just use. Bitcoin and Sandra accents in the early days. Paradoxically it was very easy. Yeah this shit. It didn't take long for the blockchain to download. Yeah the the blocks for mostly anti so. It was really quick download There was even a little drop down in the BITCOIN. QT client called CPU mining. Then that did I use when I first got there started mining couple fifty bitcoin blocks but eventually that went away You couldn't export private keys yet. There were no HD wallets well. It's so that part that that really wasn't helpful. I think a lot of people lost their their early coins because of that and then Other other services started filling that gap army wallet was probably the first one used for like multi signature stuff. Adi's one of those people that deleted his wallet. Dot File Awesome plus coinage. It's Yeah I did. I did lose them. They're so easy though. Felt like you didn't know existed application. You couldn't export it so it wasn't like you had to basically you didn't know what the backup and a lot of ways. How does it was in a hidden folder? It when you make a mistake like that. It's one of those like And then it takes several rows Osborne to sink in. Because you're just looking like yeah. This is not these buns aren't looking like they used to. I remember the day I remember the day I said because we live together. We were college and I'm sitting on my computer and he walks in like. Hey Man I can't find light coin. We lost coin. I just I was cleaning my computer. Getting rid of some old old space some space and I deleted the application data folder. And I can't I calf I'm going fucking what footmen the irony was. I'm trying to make space for fuck doc in open bizarre because I didn't have any room in my hard drive so I was like I. Will I gotta make some room a hard. Drive for more crypto shit and then boom lycoming going gone so that was fun. Not Fun became from so Do you have right now. I think you kind of set it early interview interview but is I guess reiterating like right now things seem like they're gonNA Stable out for cryptocurrency like it's not Threat the government's it's just something that exists and something that will continue to exist if you if you mean if you had to put on your wizard captain think of what the future look like. There's no longer a threat emanating threaten. Then it really depends on on government. I can't predict government's GONNA GONNA act but as far as our government. It seems pretty friendly. It's it seems so you know. We just want informed consent to make sure that everyone knows that that the risk involved in Bitcoin at like for example any moments that there she could come back and just claim Mullis goings and now the markets crash. You probably wouldn't do that but you know that's just one of the risk that you have to disclose to people and as long as people understand that that and can weigh that risk and there's no reason why not to let them do what they want with their own money. What about the regulation of of how to pay taxes? I think that's the main thing that people at businesses complain about a worry about and bills the reluctance to use it like business business activities because how you tax is difficult to understand and then in Even though there is software and better accounting systems to help keep track of actual transactions answers to pay taxes on is getting better. It's still not very robust. And so because that's not something that's standardized in a useful it. We've lost that large of adoption because people are just afraid to do it because they would like to say good citizens of whatever jurisdiction there. Yeah there needs to be more guidance and there definitely needs to be legislation so that small transactions. I don't require that kind of information You shouldn't be have to check the price every time you buy a cup of coffee just to see what your gains are. It certainly makes you it. You're going to do that anyway. kind of right especially with with with an asset like Bitcoin My tendency to spend is very related to the current price of whatever it is. I'm spending because it's so volatile right now like I tend to spend more when the prices are up and I tend to not spend so much on. The prices are down and if that's going to become the backdrop of how a lot of people pay for things from day to day than one is going to make us more like the rest of the world and turns the United. It's eight because we don't think about money like that but it's also going to be more difficult or like Something that aren't aren't going to want to do. Yeah something like Anything under five hundred dollars. You don't have to even calculate that that gain that would be great. Oh Man I'm so I just think that's reasonable to add a miniature freak out and I was like associate yeah coin basis reporting things now so then I went on coin base now I got my like tax information and it was like such a range of emotions from what I saw I was like. Wow they're tracking a lot of shit. That was like my very initial thing. I was like Whoa. They're tracking a lot And then the the second thing was oh I guess ev- even log on the coin based in breathe every excel and inhales a taxable event. Because what the fuck like everything that goes in and out all is a taxable event and the other not so then I got no way of knowing and I angry there so I was like Whoa fuck now. I'M GONNA have to go talk to my senator. I guess and then I looked at it then I looked at everything okay. It's actually not that bad but it was just a lot to take in. It does need. I mean it needs some guidance because I I went on read it in looked at this even further in there so many threads right now people who are flipping open out. 'cause they're like I don't know what to do with all this do. I owe millions of dollars in taxes. And it's just like no this. It's not it's it's it's just it's it's very hard to figure out what you're GonNa do that now and they need to make it easier so not a question. I'm just the APP. So and they've scared a lot of people a lot of people with the IRS. Question just it. Do you ever even traded in Crypto. Doesn't matter if you've made any money or or how much or even with it was we need to put you on. A list is basically what the question is your. Can we flag you and and you know five years later. If we see you have a lot of money. We're just GONNA go and do fishing expedition on you. Yeah they're they're trying to catch people slipping because if you say no to that but coin base at the same time time is reporting that you do and then you're screwed I think that's they're going to be like ooh checkmate. gotcha bitch so yeah yeah. It's tax fraud if you sign that thing. You're saying that you know it's it's accurate information at work for blockchain company. I'm not going to be able to not sign that thing. Yeah I'm GONNA try that. I run the BITCOIN podcast network. That's probably not gonNA fall in court like what's Bitcoin coin. This is your face on the cats. No it's not a liar. So are there other. Recruit other crypto currencies. They kind of got year Bits jubilee other than Bitcoin when you read about them Oh yeah definitely the Lithium was was one of the first ones I. I'm really excited about that. It's just a new paradigm of of computing. The way that you can have The public state out there. And you don't have to. You're running code and you don't care who's running it you don't care if it's on as your or Google or uh aws. It's just run this code and I don't care who's running it so I think that's that's a game changer. As far as just How you think about L. Programming and for me I always kind of asks to the first question is will? Why don't you just use bitcoin? So if your ideas like something plus money any and you're trying to use another token for money then I just kind of ask. Why don't you use bitcoin? It's the best money right now in then. If you can't do what you WanNa do with Bitcoin then I ask wire using a theorem and then I go from there. So if you have a good use case for your own blockchain Some of them are just kind of grandfathered in like excite. They've just been around since two thousand fourteen. It made sense for them to have their own blockchain in their white paper. They claim that they're going to go to a two way pig side chain someday some day but the the Co founder lately has said that. That's insecure. I've been pressing him to figure out why that's insecure. But he hasn't responded on that and I'm still trying to get a debate going between him and Paul Stork is a really smart guy. came up with the drive chain concept. They've take definitely been around. been around for a very long time. I remember going. Let's say three years ago there were start to grow quite a bit at one of the consensus is the first token token summit in New York and they were all over the place put guards and I've ever taken that they had a chance for a what right what I considered the storage wars at that time. Jeb Storage Sia swarm and I've tried all vie for the same thing I I think it's funny that I'm not terribly shirt. Any of them have one yet to help drive chain. Yeah I think they have the they have the best game. Theoretical will framework so far that where Making a contract with someone and updating and uploading a file to them incurs. A cost on your end. So you don't WanNa just sit there and upload to people all day long and then they just disappear because that's that's a denial of service attack so you need to have that that incentive to make sure that if someone forms a contract with you and takes your file that they actually want to store it and the and it's going to be stored so that's why you have collateral and I think the last thing that they need is some sort of proof of burn so that you can't have a civil attack where you pretend that you're like fifty different nodes but you're just one one node and that would reduce your redundancy if you send that file thinking you're sending it to fifty different people but it's the same person than you just lost redundancy. So that's kind of the next next thing that they need to implement but I think they're they're they're far ahead of the game as far as the game theory part and even the the working application part like they're starting to stream four K.. Videos directly off the network without downloading the blockchain. That's pretty hot. I'll wait. I feel like you're so locked in by this a one. I don't drive chain is I feel like I should and Dan I don't and to Howie streaming videos. That the seems like that's impossible. I need educating police sir. Yeah I I. I don't know the details memorize them. But it's I've seen the proofs of it. The people have actually really done it. There's some sort of of adapter layer or something like that Okay I'll be looking into that. Yeah they had a one point six million dollar investment by Bain capital to The they own Dunkin doc in doughnuts and Burger King and a bunch of other stuff. They're one of the largest private equity firms I would love to see you know. How do they plan on getting their money? Back because you know nebulous. They have CYA funds. I don't I'm not sure if you're aware it is but it's kind of it's actually a to coin chain there's coin where you pay for follow contracts and you get paid for storing files but there's also cya funds where you get a percentage of each contract as a fee so Nebulous they crowd funded Selling ailing cya funds in the early days. But they still own most of them but The you you don't make a lot if you even if you own a science fund right now you. You're not getting many Cya coins per day. So it'd be interesting to see how they plan on making their money back. He says of early said Bitcoin. When is the best money right now? There's a lot of people that would disagree with you. what do you say to those. Oh yeah well I would say that we needed to find. You know the term best because I I wouldn't wanNA even start a debate with with that kind of vague definition so yeah we would probably spend the first thirty minutes arguing over with with the best money would be an and I would argue liquidity and so actually actually. Bitcoin isn't the best money right. Now it's the best digital money trust less money the non best non Fiat money but it's you know. US dollars probably probably the best right now. Please offer saying that. Yeah you're done courses over. Yeah I mean you you not wrong. You're very right. USD is highly liquid Just a lot of people that I think I just got into believe believe it or not I got new beef with Mr Kenneth Bosak Two weeks ago where He said. I'M GONNA poser. He called composer. He called me poser. Because I don't use bitcoin cash He was like I live in breathed. This crypto Shit Bro. And all right now. I can't use bitcoin as money. I got these bitcoin cash. You're just oppose it and I was like okay. Alright had defend that out. I mean defended by saying like well. You don't have the authority over how people use their money in. What money is and I use bitcoin all the time? So here's the here's the problem with that argument in my opinion. Is that shirt. If you're talking talking about you know spending twenty bucks hundred bucks a day. That's fine if you WANNA move millions you WANNA buy million sell millions. You're not gonNA key to do that with mini coins without drastically moving the Underlying the price of that token that's meant to be much liquidity right like Bitcoin. There is no match for the amount of liquidity and Bitcoin period. CERIUM is doing okay. But it's still. I still argue that. She tried to move a tremendous amount of a stadium in the market. It would move the price significantly more but much more significantly than Bitcoin I'd say I mean what is your opinion on that. You've you've worked help. Helping make exchanges at imagine you understand some markets pretty well just based on the software that runs them know that in also liquidity liquidity. I mean you know number of trading partners to not just one person with a lot of money but as being able to go in and spend it so yes sure are you can find a couple of places. It'll do some really quick zero confirmation. BITCOIN cash transactions but try going around town and spending it even in a in a big town. You're not gonna find that many places where you will find people that you know. They've just heard bitcoin and they're just ready to the jump and they've been meaning to try it right and you're you have some bitcoin right now that you want to spend with them so they're going to go ahead and and you know onboard right now just to make that happen. You're not gonNA find that with Bitcoin cash or you're so Toshi's vision or any of these other ones now. What I see what I have seen? I've never really followed through it because I I got tired of seeing it L. constantly see if I can read like Oh now spender whatever coin in ten thousand locations via this service or whatever right right and so it seems as though there's a tremendous amount of people in basically every based chain trying to help help the adoption by providing some service that links to the traditional infrastructure. So that I can so they could pay hey with whatever coin and go to the local like POS system use some card or whatever are tap their phone and buy something you think that tapping into that infrastructure is the right move for gaining massive adoption across across a chain or is it or is it like changing behavior based on the ideals that the underlying crypto currency you had probably mixed On one hand. It's getting more exposure to bitcoin but on the other hand it's an it. You're not really using bitcoin. You're just selling it on the spot. What and then using Fiat moving that around so in some sense? It's not. It's not helping what you really want. Is You want people to take bitcoin. And and then turn around and hold onto it until they need to spend it say you know bills or whatever and then it becomes a closed loop and that's win. The value starts increasing. Because everyone's holding it now and the the supply has dropped We're far away away from that but not too far. I got a lot of these that on Bitcoin. Now so Lewis. Mickey d's deserve metric mansion on teens. He's they they're they're they are wise in elderly and if they're locked in like that that says something so What would be so seen as you are? Og of the OH. Jeez what would be something that could happen to Bitcoin That would make you like elated. A change I I know that when at least when I got into bitcoin shortly after like like two years after you did it was. I was so excited because bitcoin had this opportunity. Oh if something else comes along it's programmable money will just soft fork in we're going to have this ultra currency. That can do all the things that you know fast forward now. We know that. That's damn near impossible double as it's really really difficult so if there were one thing that you know get through the gates and upgrade bitcoin what what are you. Most excited edited about as far as technical. Yeah on the technical side Van Definitely fungibility and confidential the transactions and that kind of stuff with a tap root schnorr. Those things not not yet. Okay Yeah I saw something today. That's you just got pushed it into like the IP Status Tap Rootin- Schnorr Saga they're making their way tap root and taps grip. I got three bits bits so for full very curious to see what happens when if imagined they will go through at some point at some point. I'm very curious to see how things 'cause it drastically changes how you build on top of Bitcoin and what you can't build on top of Bitcoin. Because most of the time people go go to other things namely Assyrian to build these things or they're gonNA try and make some side chain like liquid and and because of that. You take a lot of the use out of Bitcoin people just hold it. Wait basically wait for something to happen. A lot of instances. I'm very curious to see what happens when those things get through because it drastically improves the things you can do. And the EPA and because of that like gives a lot of incentive to build to go back to building on top of Bitcoin. Yeah I like to make analogies to the Internet so I think where we're at is is not quite back when you had to be a university to get on the Internet but were more like where you had to pick out a phone number and figure out where odile too and that's Kinda confusing. No one likes to do that and now you just have the technician. Come they install the Internet for use it so I think that's that's kind of what we're looking at that right now with people still manually select coins and care about that kind of stuff. And that's not what the the the end goal you X.. needs to be it needs to be. Just here's your balance all bitcoin or the same. Don't worry about it there's disliking part of can you just said so. I remember when people who had computers at their home use them for things other than the Internet because because the Internet didn't really exist and that was the vast fast fast those the only use for for computers with Internet started a small subset of those people started using their computer cuter to the. Do this weird thing called the Internet with that and you fast forward to now and the vast vast vast majority of devices computers are only only used for the Internet. That's basically only functioned. When my mother tells me to buy new laptop in? She tries to point out the three thousand five thirty five hundred dollar MAC book pro. I'm like no no. You're just using the Internet. You don't need that. Your phone is probably just fine at the ochre and so like The core how long's IT GONNA be until we get to that. What are we going to call it? I think that's the main thing that I'm not willing to take bets on at this point. I'm not willing to say we're GONNA call it. bitcoin yet it could. It could be young. It could be a bunch of different things because like you said earlier like all the new chains besides besides Theorem in my opinion. Anything that wants to do value value value. Transfer is basically an experiment. In changing how you do blockchain's bitcoin is the hedge. That's the one that's been safe secure solid and will maintain probably maintain that that head but there's a potential that with the Advance of technology namely the cryptography. We use a lot of this stuff. we can come up with something that's drastically better and therefore could become come the backdrop of the stuff because the scale is always going to be an issue. Here I saw like I don't want to call it. I think it's always is going to exist. blockchain asked type things are always going to exist because we figured out how to do digital scarcity. I don't know what it's going to be called in five years we should make a resolution Where we make up a name every week for what we think it's going to be called and then in eventually when it gets called that point back to house smart we were exactly we could say told you we got it right? That's what we say. How many People Night Ripper Aka Digital Genie Aka Kit. I could go on like that for days. Probably we don't want that. How how? How many people have you been able to say? I told you so to and give the middle finger to saint time the back I make sure to come back at you know once a year and just like if you would have listened to me on on this date guttering is. He's probably made an application. That gives you reminders of who to call and say what say what two yeah I gave away a Lotta bitcoin though. So are you twenty eleven. God sorry go ahead in twenty eleven at my university. I organized talk For about Bitcoin. I got the the Computer Science Department to host it sponsor it and I gave out one bitcoin to everyone who showed up and also gave out free pizza but to get people to show up. I had to hand endow fliers all over campus and I made sure to go to the different departments and I you know. The message was Kinda geared to each area so if I was at the engineering campus than it was all about the Technical aspects so as the police I part and it was all about you. Know what are we gonNA do about taxation and governance and stuff like that so so make sure to get different cross sections of the campus to come but quite a few people just looked at it and balled it up in my face and just you you know said Oh you gotta pay your taxes. And there's a lot of angry people. We even got one of the faculty She came in and listened to the entire tired talk and then at the end of it she stood up and just wanted to tell us that. We're not as smart as we think we are Why that's the point? They're like what was the talk. I know it's during the talk. What did you talk about like just how it worked or potentials are? Yeah Yeah Yeah it was By Plato he was an early user he was doing he had just graduated from Mit and he was doing a road. Road trip from Boston. auto-pay all the way to California and he was trying to spend bitcoin only so he was looking for people would meet him at a gas station. uh-huh and take bitcoin and give them some gas and stuff now bitcoin back I put. Yeah yes so I just put a pin on the map and I said hey if you you come through my area look me up and He did so. I arrange the talk just to make it even more worthwhile Funny Funny Story about that is He he met my grandmother and he gave her sixteen bitcoin so she later on sold that and paid off her house. So that was kind of a great windfall for her. Oh man my grandson. Admit this weird guy that paid off my house. That's the that's the story that you tells people Internet money. Yeah Yeah I can. I can say shame based on like a blog post I got I got. I got a tip from a blog post. A long time ago that ended up eventually ended up paying for my house. That is a crazy ethnic her story I think her story is kind of typical of people that had some early exposure and then completely forgot about bitcoin until years later when they heard about it in the news in there like oh I had some of that stuff let me let me find it out whereas it seems like most people that watch the Bitcoin Price Day in and day out. They didn't really. They sold way earlier than that. And I'm certainly one of those I don't I don't have seventy five thousand bitcoin so you know technically speaking every move I made since I my initial acquisition was was a mistake in in the grand scheme of. It's assuming that's assuming that I didn't enjoy vacations and stuff that I took also from a purely like trading perspective but if you you look at it from all of the other things that like a tremendous amount of help adoption knowledge Like underlying utility Ludi getting people involved getting the Mitch did all of that. That was a product of using and selling at those times. I think is a greater good to do the entire ecosystem than what you may have made right now. If you just held onto it right like everyone who brought back then it just held onto it. There wouldn't be a bitcoin. Nowadays theory right there will in the problem was well. Now you can spend and replace but the problem was back then you would spend it and then a month later that the price already jumped doubled or ten an extra whatever I actually remember when the the big the big thing was will we reach parity with the dollar will one bitcoin equal one dollar and that was kind of like the moon for a lot of us but like was back then. There wasn't enough the quantity for everyone. Who had you know seventy five thousand Bitcoin to sell it when it if it if it did hit a don't know yet? That was the reason why I started my first exchanges because there wasn't a the market and I had to keep doing everything OTC. And I it was just a pain so I kinda scratched my own inch and then at the same time Learned a automaking exchanges to talk about that like what was the process of figuring out how to make an exchange in deploying it and then getting users because there was a real L. D.. Like because you had that itch guarantee a lot of other people had that in the ecosystem. How did that process go with you? Turning get on after figuring out the bumps and bruises of building the damn thing. I think I had a benefit because I was kind of like the visionary and I also am a programmer so I could do both whereas whereas a lot of people out there who were very business minded and they knew knew that they needed markets and stuff but they just didn't have the skills to build it themselves so they had to go seek outside help and that just made things slower for them and as far as making you know learning how to do it. The the tricky part for me was like the order matching and you know what do you do. When there's you can can only match part of a payment and would you do when there's a spread do you? Just you know pocket the spread or overlap. Or whatever or you know how do you handle that kind of stuff and that was what really interests me and and solving those problems is just learning about how markets were even what a market maker was at the time. Yeah Man I I think that's. That's that's a common story for a lot of people might be not to the to the the detail that you've had is speaking from my own experience. got into this because I really enjoyed or computer science aspect of this that come from a high performance computing background and when I read about read the original white a paper Cup of videos I was like Oh this is really cool like method for doing things I like. How this solves a computational science problem and in the process of digging digging and digging digging money is kind of interesting and markets are interesting and value is interesting and I learned a lot other stuff because it was necessary to understand the entirety of what? This project did the Gets even more so for me. Because I was a libertarian so had already kind of like understood the protests against the federal preserve and you know understood the macro economic stuff. So that's that's what I love about. Bitcoin it touches on everything. There is computer science lance social stuff markets. There's just nothing that Bitcoin doesn't touch and for Sheila learn about. Yeah that's what makes your family hates you. A family family get togethers too because it's like man. We're just trying to talk about sports. And you're like yeah. But dinwiddie is tokenism. His contract on the theory and blockchain. They're like what the fuck are you talking about man always with that Christian now It's you're right. It's multidisciplinary because at the end of the day it was trying to become new Sunni and that is more powerful like that that does very powerful to try to become new money Just from what what I've seen and what I've read read about and it it touches so many aspects of everyone's life and I I guess the did you happen to see that that graph that posted. I think it was yesterday morning. Where shows like how little people are sending now now when it comes to bitcoin like it shows when I started if people were sending sending whole bitcoins Willy Nilly and now it's gotten to a point now where you rarely? I see so once in the whole bitcoin is most people in sats or I think bits is what people tried to call it. That really caught on bits but in order for that to sustain the only way for that sustained is if the value. BITCOIN goes up right. I mean in my Emma being to so... In thinking that because that converges down war that converges down to sending either sat soto. She's or pieces of associes. You can't converge too much further so yes sub subsidy payments are pretty interesting. They are aren't they. They're going on lighting. We're going out of style but I mean you hear about that kind of stuff so at least I don't hear about that kind of stuff all whenever whenever I tried a brigade of Bitcoin cash people there like it's crazy but anyways I guess the question I was ethical. Sorry go ahead. The the question is since you've been in the so long you you've kind of lived within the economy of it for ten years. Do you see anything that could break away. The tendency for yet has to keep getting value. I I don't think there's much pointing in the opposite new in. No I guess the biggest threat would be you know we. We had a hundred years of economic and monetary policy prosperity to wear that all all the government's wrecking right and all of the central banks were acting right right but that seems very unlikely. Oh yeah does they're trying to. I don't know it seems like it's just a long road. Go from where we went to where we are now. And it's GonNa be crazier to see the mania when this thing touch twenty thousand again here in the next few years if you are. I can't believe it because not dead. So I don't know is just I. I can't imagine being in your shoes news and still holding it together for being this right. I guess that's what it is. Well I mean for me. Bitcoin is just a huge validation for libertarian philosophy. So that's kind of why I'm so so thrilled about it. And then you know the the new markets that it opens up the new business models making micro transactions actually actually possible. That's been a huge dream for a lot of people for a very long time. That's what really excites me. More than just the price going up a banking the under banks. I think people are still trying to do that. since you are looking at Hey payday loan people. That can't have a checking account. They get preyed upon quite a bit if you gotta go to check cashing place. The fees are ridiculous. If you you start getting payday loans the fees ridiculous. The interest rates are should be criminal I don't understand why they're not that it makes it puts you in a worse position than you were before hand. said there's no way could pave the original loans because it was so much unless you're really in a circumstance where it's the one off scenario of all. I'm actually going to have the money. I need to pay his back soon. Instead of I have no other options as the only thing I can do and I'm not going to have options for the future so I'm just going to be debt or make my life worse. Technology Ruin your credit so now you can never ever get a house you're stuck renting forever and that's just the. US Go ahead to now. Now I was gonNA find a question but now saying the. US like like we're all we have things going pretty well in terms of financial services within the US. It could be much better for sure. But there's a tremendous amount of places around the world. Since bitcoin is not jurisdictional that could potentially help. People will live their lives in a much more stable way or have access the services that they couldn't have access to to build businesses on a global scale. That all the stuff really really offers up. I think that's one of the main reasons. Why is that? It allows people to potentially pursue lives that they never would have been able to pursue beforehand and just based on being able to use his technology. Like it's it's a agree one of those things like imagine like your coder and some rural underprivileged area. There's no local market kit for you at all and if if you have access the Internet you may not have be able to get a bank account or any of the associated things so that people can why are you money or pay you appropriately but you can certainly provide services across the world just could never get paid for those services in any way that's useful to you but with with with crypto currencies. It's very easy to set up shop. Get paid in those currencies and make a substantial living with Relative to your local community and then give give back to the community with that their wealth or just provide for yourself and your family. Yeah definitely and there's services like Mechanical Turk where it's not not even really that technical is just if you use a computer and you can transcribe some stuff or follow basement strikes on you make money. Yeah Yep Mechanical Turk Turk now would onslaught of people you pay you. Pay Them to do simple tasks on the Internet and they will do simple tasks Internet for very large very small amounts of money in gist. Would counselors is a simple task. Fill out the survey I'd imagine they'd been employed to send emails or like certain types of comments or for I know one thing. It was a video imaging processing company that when the AI it was below a certain threshold they would send it to a mechanical Turk. So that for instance like they could the person the number thirty three on this picture von instead of dealing with what the I A confidence interval was so if it was below a certain threshold. Couldn't quite figure it out you would think batch to be kept Pushed it and then the result of go back to the end user wanting to know what number was in this picture. It's it's an unending amount of things you can do with Mega Turk because it's just people on computers doing whatever you ask them to. Can you fix we compete. Lets you okay. I don't think so I'm not planning anything I just. I wanted to know. What what are you asking that question for equality talk get fixed wikipedia pages or is that me? I don't mean fix says unlike a wikipedia pages broken fixes in like Vegas style. There's several things I need history to know forever. That's all I don't know where you're going with that one. I need history to know that Kim Kardashian is a porn star. I need to know things even back in that horse for out L.. Now it's been almost going on two decades damage. There's lots of things I need is to read the no and I wanna just make sure what pedia stay. Stay the way I needed to stay all then. Why don't you go on that adventure and come back and tell us how that works out? Go I'M GONNA make my life's work now. I got a question for you. How did you find us at? Why did you decide to join because you spend you? Spent a decent amount of time in the slack contributing Guy Quality content to us and we definitely appreciate that. I would like to make sure that people though that it's a place people can't go to ask questions. Russians learn more and talk with other types of people. Like how did you. What made you decide to join? Ah Being on slack is probably the number one thing because I'm already on slack for work and and and other stuff so it was just one more channel to add. It's pretty easy. DISCHORD is kind of the same way for me. I hang out in a couple of different dischord channels But what really attracted me to. The conversation was just how knowledgeable eligible everyone is in that channel and how open you are to the talking to New People and trying to educate people in the space It's twitter under can be pretty toxic so I try to avoid that stuff and in general I I've really kept a low profile and I'm Kinda only coming out in the open. Just because as of the Mice Association with Sixteen Thirty Eight digital. It's you know it's in my interest now to the tell people my history whereas I was I could have been comfortable just staying on other radar Dr Indefinitely so this is really the first incentive to kind of you know shout out to the world. Hey I I once had a bunch of Bitcoin You know please please don't kidnap me once. I once had a bunch of bitcoin. Once they're a lesson in a boating accident there. We definitely appreciate the conversation you bring to the table. And and how non-inflammatory the conversations that's getting people to see like what it was like like back in the day and how it's changed and reasonable dialogue on where things can go how they work and so on and so forth is always welcome. Thanks thanks for bringing that as long as you don't go into that politics in there. I WANNA moderate right. You would have moderated politics show. I've muted. I don't even. I don't even participate in that channel. It's just I I think yeah. I went in there for or day and I was like yeah. I can't do that every day. I can't I can't stay away from it But yeah thanks for joining in the slag man is. It's a you're definitely helping out there and like you said if you're listening to this right now pool over your car please get a car accident. Join the Slack Channel Join the conversation. There's lots of really knowledgeable people in there from like wide like so many different disciplines winds on we all just Kinda come kicking in talk about all kinds of stuff so and more questions Richard It's what sells about anything you want. Shell tell us about sixteen thirty eight digital joining. Tell people like where to go. What's new things like that sure? Yeah sixteen thirty eight digital. It's the Blockchain Fund it's a two twenty fund to the management fee and twenty is the incentive. NFC So if we make your money then we keep twenty percent of that and We are partnered with Jim. And I and KRAKEN FOR CUSTODY Warren Everett for counting Trident. Trust for Legal compliance It's a it's a really great group of Local People that I've known for many years They they already had a previous fund that they made about four hundred percent for their investments Investors in a and that was really good timing mainly they got in around two thousand and then got out somewhere in November twenty eighteen and The they already had everything in place except for the technical stuff so they have the portfolio manager. They have the business the Steph Guy. They just really needed the technical stuff to help them evaluate coins other than Bitcoin. So that's where I come in and I try to help figure out how to these. Tokens Tokens accrue value. Which one of them make sense in? which ones are the scams? That's not an easy job because there's a lot of them now. Maybe not I take that back. It's pretty easy to spot things that aren't going to work very well or teamed can't provide it. Yeah I'd give him give him the trademark. All right man Do you you need anymore. no kidding intimidators less Can you describe bitcoin digital money Scottish. I'd say over time the ability of people to condense what Bitcoin is into a very few words has gotten way better way better. I remember we first question like we got like paragraphs paragraphs like no one could ever do it. It was impossible for anyone to say anything that was coherent in less than thirty words at now. Everyone's like it's digital money. What would you say? That's a good guess we're coalescing we're coalescing around a narrative as opposed to like whatever people see a future. I don't now yeah I look forward to the day where You know I go up and talk to someone and I'm like Oh you're using bitcoin. I love Bitcoin in there. Like Jeff I like money to like money. They're they just like what's the big deal. There's no dollar clubs. Yeah I guess that would be like when you're talking about. It's your kids so one day you'll like around before there wasn't bitcoin like around four money. What are you talking about GRANDPA? Shut the fuck up. It's very huma a semi. That's exactly what pasta to me. He was like why are you so crazy about money is just money and I was like not shut up old man the conversation it all right. Well thanks for stopping by. Thanks for Cotinine the hang out and slack and And Good Luck. You guys are. Knock everything at a ballpark with you. Know how much experience it sounds like you guys are working with and you a specific perfect experience in the industry I think now especially is feeling like a really good time. So Yeah yeah thanks Dan Aw and.

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'Kid A' at 20: A Look Back at Radiohead's Masterpiece

Rolling Stone Music Now

39:39 min | 2 weeks ago

'Kid A' at 20: A Look Back at Radiohead's Masterpiece

"Hey I'm Brian Hiatt in Mrs Rolling Stone Music. Now I have with me Steven Hi who's going to talk with us about radio. Heads Kid which is celebrating its twentieth anniversary. He is the author of a new book. This isn't happening radio heads kid a in the beginning of the twenty century. He's also a cultural critic for Uproxx and the host currently of a podcast called rivals. That's a lot of fun Steven Welcome Brian, always a pleasure always good to have you and I was saying before the show what's amazing is you manage to write a fun book about Radio Heads Kid A. Necessarily congruent with the album itself it's a fun riff book about an album not designed to spark fun although I find it fun to listen to. It's not the normal. It's not fun like Britney Spears album came out the same year that probably were the two albums that I spent the most time listening to that year, which says a lot about these split in my personality. But. How did you come to realize that you wanted to write this book? Let's start there. Well, you know we're coming up now it's been twenty years into this new century that were in I mean it's not a new century where we've been living in a twenty percent for a while now, and it just seems like a natural time to to look back and now only reflect on culture but all the things that we've that we've gone through in the past two decades and I think you're right I mean, I think the book is Fun Hopefully? People Laugh when they're reading it but you know there are a lot of things in there that I'm writing about that are. Pretty dark and depressing, not just the album. But again, like just how crazy the last two decades have been. You know I I think one of the attractions of. Along with just being this landmark, great album is. came out. At the beginning of the twentieth century really before like the new century really began. It comes out in October of two thousand. The next month you have the Gore be V. Bush election, which of course, ends up being the. Deductible that is decided by the Supreme Court. So I think that is I. Think for generation of people the beginning of dislike political disillusionment with that we're still experiencing today in twenty twenty, and then of course, the know about eleven months after. September eleventh and Kitty ends up being very much tied to that event as well. That leads to these two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that we find out is. Based on. WMD's that aren't actually there just fuels more of this kind of paranoia and distrust of. Of the media in our politicians that I think really defines this age. And of course, you have all the things with the Internet that have come into play I. Think since this record came out. So you know I think with this album. It's my favorite radiohead album I love kid a but I probably love okay computer more. But I, think as a topic for a book, it's just so rich because there's so many different jumping off points that you can make an an and really talk about not just a record but again, like the whole world in a culture that's developed in the last two decades it is as it happens my favorite radiohead album I, think. I'm just going to go ahead and call you a raucous see if I think if you choose. Okay. Well I mean I wrote about this a little bit in the book I mean I think the significance of OK computer from you has a lot to do with when it came out. I was nineteen years old when okay computer dropped and am I would venture to guess that for a lot of people. Their favorite records probably came out sometime between the ages of sixteen and Twenty one, and it just has to do with where you are in your life at that moment that you haven't heard a lot of music yet you're really prime to have your mind blown in a way that even if you love musically Iran I, it's not quite the same so I think that. Has something to do with it as well. I. Mean I think with radiohead for me. It's about three albums. Okay. Computer kid a in in rainbows I think those are the three big ones. Obviously you have the bands you have hailed the thief. Those are those are great records as well. But I think those are the three big touchdowns in their career. And I ended up writing quite a bit about all three of those records obviously focusing kid a but also. You know how? Okay computer lead up to kid a and I think how in rainbows was also influenced by what they were doing on that record but in a much different way so I don't know see when you use the word rock I feel like that implies that I think rock music is superior in like sort of a macro sense and I don't think that's true. But I do have course I have my own tastes things I like personally I don't impose it on the entire world. But. So you think kid as the optimist radiohead record. Well, first of all, it was kind of messing with you but second of all. It's not the pop dimissed radiohead record or though that'd be an interesting case to make an I also think we're already in danger of disappearing in the weeds here. But I I do think that that kid is as you say in the book, it's still rock record for all their efforts to lose themselves to disappear completely they don't. It's it's very much rock album and very much just as OK computer was. Not. Even that far afield in some ways from like the white album, not really you know I it's it's still very much as you say in the tradition of everything they were trying to escape and the more electronics they put on the more it emphasizes. Were actually coming from in some ways. It's just they can't escape what they are that'll will make sense and I. Think There's no question I think that if radiohead had made a more straightforward record which you can easily imagine them doing if you take songs from Amnesiac in the more straight ahead songs from today, you can make a record that has. Optimistic you and whose army I might be wrong. knives out pyramid song a record like that, which would have been more in line with what ca okay computer was, and those are all wonderful songs and I'm sure that would have been a great record I'm not quite sure though if that would have done what kid did for radiohead which to me. In, sure that they weren't going to be a nineties banned it like ushered them into a new age in the same way that like if you look at some other contemporaries from the nineties. Even if they continued on and they are still touring attractions, they're they're still kind of stuck in the nineties in terms of their like peak recorded output. There's lots of examples that we could say that think of that I'm just go back to what you were saying about like the musical differences between kid in Archaic Computer I mean I think for me it's not so much the musical differences. It's the emotional differences and I think if you listen to the early radiohead albums there so expressive and they're so operatic and there's these great peaks often coming from time, York's vocals almost like a Freddie Mercury type quality to his voice. Especially, if you're thinking of something like paranoid Android, you know just almost like a spiritual rush. And you get to kid a and they very deliberately tamp that down. You know that is a much more claustrophobic contained record and even comparing it to something like in rainbows, for instance, which I think in rainbows. Has A sensuality to it. That is in many ways the total opposite of kid. I. Think you likes like kidneys like their Stanley Kubrick film know it's there chilly album and I think that's one of the brilliant things about it's one of the things I love. It's it's definitely a mood record, but you know sometimes that can also make it hard to access even if you love the record you know. It's hard to imagine putting on kid a at a barbecue you know. You could maybe do that with rainbows, but you have to be a certain frame of mind. To really WANNA put on kid a and spend time with increasingly. Get older, and for some reason, I'm talking about my tastes much more than usual I. Guess you're writing. It's you're writing. Your writing they brought out. Yes. It bringing out the music. This is increasingly and I got to think about this as I made my list for the new wrong stone five, hundred greatest albums of all time, which we talked about on on last week's episode I think for me the album's that rank the very highest and there's many things albums can do but the things that rank very high are the ones that create their own self enclosed closed universe, and that's why you know kid I was very high on my ballot. It was in the top five along with Danja Voodoo kind of its own world this kind of sonic landscape the you can live in for a while. On a slightly different level but argue similar Asia by by steely Dan. Because it's kind of the glossy -ness of it and the perfection of it. Remind me weirdly O- of kid a in a very bizarre way. and. That's probably the the Rob Sheffield Emmy talking because that's an insane comparison. But I think we should take a step back and get back to the of sociological significance because I was about to crack the cover of your book and I was really listening today before I read a word of the book and my thoughts went to idea that turn out to be central to your book and I'm sure you know even just reading the title had helped. Get me there but it's just listening to it. There was a time I entertain the thought and many people use. This is criticism that yes perhaps it was a slight silliness to. All the the paranoia and Ellie nation that was being expressed, both by Thom Yorke and in the music itself that it was all like a bit much that that was you said, you were too young to ever feel that way it all just seemed about right to you. But I, I sometimes wonder like Oh come on lighten up man you know sometimes there's a little bit of that and instead listening to and not just it was actually kid and then going straight and Tammy's yeah can listen to a bunch of that stuff. It's just like Oh this feels If this feels exactly like right now emotionally, and if anything it's just paranoid enough barely it's just crazy enough because this this is what they did. They captured what it was going to feel like to live in the twenty first century and I think that's at the core of some of the ideas you're writing about. You make a great point there that I think in the year two thousand especially. When this album came out in October that there were people that thought that this band is like there too negative there to like kind of up their own assets in away with this record I know that there were especially in Britain like the British press will really hard on kid a and there was this feeling of like you know kind of rolling your eyes at like a record that would. Evoke. George. Orwell, and all of these sort of dystopia ideas I think you know this is really coming out of the nineties where the nineties were relatively like a happy go lucky time I mean it didn't mean people in music especially, there was a lot of angst going on but I think those general perception that like for the most part especially, if you're a white male band like like what you have to be angsty about like think life is pretty good. You know there's not. We're not in the middle of a war the economy is doing well, what are you complaining about and of course? You know in the book I, I call today the overture for the twenty first century because I really feel like in a way as you were saying that there were things in that record that I I don't see that like radiohead was predicting what was going to happen. It's nothing like that sort of deliberate because the other thing about the lyrics on this record is that they're intentionally vague nonsensical I mean th that was something that Time York was very conscious of doing not having any kind of literal meaning to it. It's much more about the mood that's created by the sound of his voice and. I really think the sort of chaotic nature of the lyrics which I also ended up being presient because a lot of lyrics on this record they read like status updates to me like they could be tweets or facebook post. You know like yesterday I woke up sucking on a lemon. That's sort sent to answer. Exactly just something you did and you know the idea that we are now sort of were in front of our computers all day long are in front of our phones were absorbing this. Litany of chaotic information that doesn't have context, but we have to sort of conceptualize it in our mind make up our own reality in a way out of all that stuff. That's the reality of kid a and it wasn't the reality of two thousand but it is the reality of now. So yeah I mean in the book, I had this thing where I say this album, it doesn't predict the future, but it seems of the future seems like someone took it from the future. You know like the way you would take a gadget off the shelf in the year twenty twenty and you take it back to two thousand and and you just present it to people and you say this is what this thing is. I'm not going to tell you what it is but just try to make sense of it for yourself and it's only over time that you can start to see what this thing really is but. In we took twenty years for us to catch up to this record, we wanted to take a step back and talk about where it came from what the context was. It's funny to do a an utterly absurd namedrop I somehow backwards Lee brought up kid to Bruce Springsteen about a month ago. When we were talking about how Bruce moved away from the most sort of iconic version of the eastern band sound really as soon as darkness like born to run had that thing of Glock and Spiel and the particular thing that you hear at the you know the beginning of jungle land or thunder road, and actually the truth is he was already moving away from it like right away and part of it what I wanted him to admit it was because he heard it on the meatloaf record. because. That's that's his travis. But in the course of I brought up Pearl Jam and I was I was saying to us latter-day examples. Time York from radiohead heard his voice everywhere and it drove crazy. It pushed him away from in Eddie Veterans said the same thing. So anyway, long story short set the scene for why radiohead felt the need to try to reinvent themselves from scratcher so they so they thought for this album. So really had really hits a new peak in their career with the release of OK computer which comes out in nineteen ninety-seven and. Up until that point, they'd had success with the song creep which came out on their first record call. Pablo honey. And it was a song so big that it actually was bigger than the band and has really had a separate life from the band ever since it became a hit in the early nineties. I think perception for a really long time like radiohead was this GonNa be the one hit wonder at one of the many bands that came out of the MTV buzzed been in the wake of Nirvana and they were going to be this sort of forgettable copycat grunge type group you this amazing a Chuck Eddy Review in Spin were he which I you know I want this chuck but it was the attitude and it was just like he did then just a bunch of other really good bands like smashing pumpkins. But just was like this is the second album right and he's just like you know they're always going to try to make a second album these bands and they're all gonna fail but sorry and it's just amazing but go on quiz. Yeah exactly. There was this thing of like, okay. You've had your head now now fade away and radiohead had to really fight that image not just on the band's but even into okay computer like when you look at some of the reviews of OK, computer. From rolling stone and spin and other major publications like they were still referencing creep in the lead in the idea was that like okay. Now, with OK computer, they finally put creeped bed. You know they've made their masterpiece they've shown that they're a major band and they go onto were and it's a big tour and you know radiohead. Contrary to what people might think I mean they did want to be successful and they were really hard in the nineties to build their name. And they were road dogs they toured all the time. I think in ninety five, they played something like one hundred and eighty shows. So was like a show every other day you know the opened up for rem on the monster or the open up for Lantis Morissette they're doing all the things that you do to really build your name to become successful. It's all kind of finally come into fruition with OK computer and I think like a lot of bands when they're in that position, it's not quite what you died. It was going to be. It's not as transformational as you thought, it was going to be in the book I write about this concert that they played in Birmingham England where. Tom, you're basically had a breakdown and before the show he tried to leave the arena. I don't know if he was going to ditch the show or if you just want to get a breath of fresh air but you know there was this sort of very metaphorical thing that unfolded where he literally could not leave the arena like he was trying to find an exit out of this place and he finally did and he got on a train and he Realized that everyone on the train was radiohead fans. So he ended up just letting the train, take him back to the arena again, it's a very sort of metaphorical situation like he bitterly can escape fame at at this point like physically can escape. So they play the show. It's a great show, and then after the show, he's backstage with the band and Thom Yorke is catatonic. He's he just can't communicate with the rest of the band and the he's going through something where again I think it was that realization that like we've done it, it's great or should be great and I'm I'm just not enjoying it. So I think there was that sort of disillusionment with with their status and then on top of that was this feeling of sort of musical inadequacy that was driven by Hewlett to this before that like radiohead by the time of Ninety, seven, ninety eight had really become like a Cliche of British rock that there were already a lot of bands. Emulating that style that sort of rich blend of electric and acoustic guitars with the lead singer who has the high voice who can do all these beautiful runs you know sort of Jeff Buckley. Meets Freddie Mercury type vocal style that time you're Caz. And there's an epigraph that I have in the book where we're time you're. His I hate I'm annoyed by how pretty my voices and he really went through that feeling at the time. So. By the way talk about inventing the twentieth century he invented the humble breath. Exactly. So you know he he just he's in this frame of mind where he he's writing songs but he doesn't like what he's writing. But he's really into this this new record label called warp records, which is putting out just incredible litany of like brilliant electronic artists most notably affects twin who ends up being a big influence on on Time York this time and I could hear him most tangibly on kid a on the song idiot teak, which is very much even like a day X. Twin pastiche maybe if you were more critical of radiohead. So. Yeah. I. Think really what they went through a lot of. Big Rock acts musical acts have gone through at some point in their career. You. Know I alluded this in the book you know Bob Dylan went through something similarly after blonde on blonde or David. Bowie. Went through something like that. Around, his you start as period where he actually retired Ziggy stardust. It's just one of these great reckonings like where you get everything you want but it's not quite what you thought. It was going to be and you also feel like your music is it just sounds lame to you on some level and I think that was really true for radiohead. So those were the things that are really driving them to reinvent themselves and the process of trying to do so was easy You talk about a lot of false starts that I guess you trace through through bootlegs and through studio accounts and talk about how they started to try to reinvent themselves, and maybe a little bit of how you actually were able to trace that reinvention. Well, one thing I thought was really interesting about radiohead not just looking kid but looking at the creation of a lot of their albums is how insecure they are. A lot of ways you know I. Mean I don't think it's unusual for musicians to be insecure but I think the specific thing about radiohead is that it seems like like they often don't wanna sound like radiohead when they start a record you know there's this very I. Think. sort of unsure feeling that they have whenever they're recording songs that remind them too much of themselves and it seems like that was the real bugaboo real with kid a like as they. were, working on this record throughout nineteen ninety, nine I mean ninety, nine especially I was a very difficult time for them. I mean they were going to different studios they were in Paris. They were the only working at home and Oxford. They went to a couple of different places. And they're just recording like a lot of stuff but they just weren't. They weren't liking a lot of anything that they were doing and it's really hard I think to go into a situation where the your idea is. Let's do something different but it's like what is different? Exactly you know again, there was this obsession that time cad with electronic music at the time and he did work some demos that were essentially you know beats and glitches and and more along the lines against affects twin record. And he would bring them to the band and the band really wouldn't know what to do with it. 'cause it's like we're guitar bass and drums ban I. Mean we can't really play this sort of thing be while were also coming up with songs like knives out which ended up being on. AMNESIAC. The record I also came out of those sessions in one, thousand, nine, hundred thousand and he listened to knives out and you think, well, this just sounds like a song radiohead probably recorded ten minutes I mean and it's such a straightforward beautiful. Track but you know that song especially became notorious for how much time they put into it. There was some story about taking like over three hundred days for them to finish this just simple minor key guitar ballot and again I think that speaks to just how much they wanted to do something different but didn't know how to get there. You know it's it's that proverbial looking for your car keys in the dark type thing you just feeling around forever and you know it's out there but you can't quite find it and that's true if of the kid a sessions, it's also true of like in rainbows you know and other records that they've made in their career. It just fascinates me because you'd look at radiohead they're like one of the most acclaimed and beloved banner, generation but. You know even a that loved and respected. When they're by themselves in the studio, it just seems like all goes out the window and all the insecurities come back that you had when you were first starting out and I think part of the drama of the whole thing is with any great artistic endeavor a few wrong steps and you've made something really bad and you can see the dangers that were lurking. He said, why don't we be like Kan? Jam For hours and take the best parts. Now cans a great band but you know it had really become like camp probably sold. On there in the best year of their lives, they sold the most tiny fraction of the worst day of radio heads career. So it's you know it's it's some of the stuff literally sounded like commercial suicide probably to the other guys in the band, and also just like a bad idea like he was pushing, he wanted to do things that sounded kind of impossible and there was an element that could have destroyed. The Band's future I think had filed somebody's directions. Yeah. I, think that there was an element of kid a of like wanting to make it difficult. I. Think with some artists, there's this idea of like the. It's almost like homer's Odyssey you know we have to go out we have to we have to struggle. It has to take a long time in if it's too easy than what we're doing actually isn't any good and I get the sense that radiohead consciously or not subscribe to that idea because again like when you look at the songs that they were making at that time. They were coming up with commercial songs you know and there were songs and there is a record that they could have made where you could have taken the most commercial bits of what ended up on kid a an amnesiac and made a relatively straightforward record. Maybe I guess in spite of Time York's best intentions or worst ideas. However, you WanNa put it like this was still like a great petar rock band and they could come up with stuff like I might be wrong and optimistic or beautiful bow like high disappear completely or pyramid song even when they were trying to completely reinvent themselves I mean really like when you listen to Kim Day. You know I think this is more clear now than it was in two thousand. I. Think if you listen to the first song everything in its right place, that's a pretty radical departure and idiot teak is pretty different from anything that they did from other records and certainly the title track. Is Pretty far out there. But like for the most part like it's not that. Like weird. You know it's still sounds like a radiohead record again maybe that's just because of the benefit of hindsight we've been living with this record for a long time I think you can never underestimate the power of rhetoric when record comes out and like how artists presented album affecting how people hear it and I think time you're definitely wanted this album to be pre to be perceived as a provocation you know he wanted to be perceived as like a break from rock music. Even. If you could make the argument that there is still quite a bit of rock music on Kin-, you know but the idea of it breaking with the past was I think very important to him in everything in its right place was actually kind of the the breakthrough that led to the real recording of the album, right? Yeah I mean you know again I think you know they're working in nineteen, ninety, nine they're. Recording stuff, but they're not really nothing's really sticking for them and it should be noted that like a lot of stuff that they recorded early on the did go back to later on and feel like Oh actually this is better than we thought like one of the first songs that they that they worked on is a song called lost at sea which ended up on the record as in limbo you know that so Songs that they working on early it's only trash all that stuff in some cases they just had to sort of give themselves a little bit more space and then go back and and realize that it was much better than they originally thought. But Y- you said. Everything that's right. Place was originally written by time you're on a piano. And when he brought it into the Studio Natural God Richard It, you know it generally make much of an impression. If you imagine that song is being played. The Piano. What he means I mean it doesn't seem like a song that. Would be pointing to the future necessarily or or defining this record is going to sound like but. They started playing on that Prophet five synthesizer and you get that incredible tone that opens the record which I think honestly might be the greatest. Side one track one of all time I. It's definitely in the conversation for me just in terms of like a tone setter for a record agreed just the gray, the first ten, fifteen seconds of that song are so striking and just create a mood of menace and paranoia. It's this incredible thing. So here I think like that it just transformed the song and I think they knew immediately that this is going to be the first track I. think There was a thought that this was going to be a single, but then they eventually decided that they weren't gonna be any singles from the record. That was a sign that you could imagine being on another radiohead record like that was the beginning of a new era for the band and for me still that's like I think the strongest moment on the record. Really, wake one of my favorite radiohead songs period yet. You mentioned something that Jeff Tweedy from wilco likes to say it's extremely true and he would know that the first song. Really defines albums in people's minds and you can really mess with people's heads. If you're the band when you decide what to put I because it it can define the way you hear a record as opposed to a if they had started one of the more traditional sounding tracks, we might not be having this discussion right now. Because, it opens with everything in its place and then it goes into the title track and those are two. Those are definitely two of the least sort of radiohead sounding songs at that moment in time, and then you have like the national anthem coming in pretty early as well. You know yeah. Did started the record with an optimistic for instance, even sound like, Morning Bell You, two sons that you could imagine being on. Ok, computer. You're right. I wonder if people would have necessarily thought of it being this big curveball you know that it was contextualized as yet because like when you hear that first song, you hear those that synthesizer at the beginning of everything that's right place. It's like a you way far away from paranoid android or fake plastic trees, and just how time your voice sounds on that too how it's treated and it's like you know manipulated over and over again. Tom Doesn't sound like himself and that was very much the point of that record and yeah I really just sets the tone for like what's GONNA BE COMING AFTER In a broader context, what was pretty prescient of them was just seeing that the guitar rock of the nineties itself in the most broad sense was gonna be a little bit played out the Whole Alternative Rock Guitar thing was essentially over by the year two thousand and they helped not show away for because I don't know how many people actually follow their path, but they found a way forward for themselves. How do you see the in that context do? Yeah mean I think that's a crucial thing about kid a radiohead that they were able I think with that record to move into a new decade in a way that a lot of their rock contemporaries in the nineties weren't and I think it's for the reason that you said that on kid a they were very consciously even if they weren't actually doing it on some songs but they were I think very vocal about moving beyond guitar rock and moving into. Realms of electrons music, and really just kind of taking like a post rock attitude towards how they're gonNA Acting as a band and I think that that played a big role in radiohead having the saddest that they do now, which is the rare nineties rock band that could still headline music festivals like back when they were music festivals like they headlined Coachella I think it was in twenty seventeen. Or so twenty, seventeen or two, thousand, eighteen. and. It's really hard for me to imagine like another nineties rock band doing that you know having the kind of status that radiohead has I think that they are one of the only bands of that generation that younger people look to as still having some vitality to them and being Ford Looking, and I don't know if that happens if they decide to make the more straightforward sequel to OK computer in the two thousand like if they had said, we're going to wave the flag for Guitar Rock epics and make okay computer partout. That could have been a very successful record in the short run, but I think that the generation coming up might have looked at that as being a little passe. And I think that record in combination with in rainbows having a record like that later in their career. That was afford thinking record in terms of their business practices the pay what you want thing being ahead of the curve but I think also just record being really great. It gave them that sort of like mid career too late career masterpiece that younger listeners if you're a millennial or even a Zimmer and that was the first radiohead record that you could get into like when you were a teenager, it just introduced them to a new generation in a way that you know again, like a lot of other bands of that generation, they didn't have that like all of their important work is in the nineties and it's all of a piece of that scene that Alternative Rock Guitar centric seen. In radiohead isn't like that they have different periods of their career that appeal to different people I. Think it's important to I. write about this. In the book I. Think It's fascinating to compare Radio Heddon in Youtube because I think. There are a lot of parallels there, and you know radiohead put a kid a in October of two thousand you to put all that you can't leave behind in the same month. You know we're going to be celebrating the twentieth anniversary of that at the end of October and you going in the opposite direction they very much embracing certain old world rock music. You know that record was a throwback to like their Joshua tree sound in it was tremendously successful and beautiful day is a great song and it really I think gave them a jolt of much-needed kind of career energy at that time. But their band to that like at one point had been doing what radiohead was doing you know with acting baby and zoo roper I mean that was like their kid a period essentially and then they kind of went back. And almost discounted that I think Bano at one point sort of pooh-poohed zoo roper as being like, oh, that we went a little bit too far with that and we should be writing pop songs and that's defined their career arc really sense. Then like Youtube always wanted to engage the mainstream while radiohead as retreated from it a lot of ways, and certainly you done great in the last twenty years I mean they're still playing stadium so you can't really fault them too much for that but I do think that radiohead was present and not wanting to chase the world's biggest rock band status that you choose always. Really wanted and and really taken to heart because really like in this century being the world's biggest rock band I mean like what does that even mean it's like being like the world's fastest covered wagon you know like the really cares about that in the twenty first century that the way that they did on the twentieth century I think you're absolutely right and. One of the things you mentioned your book is despite everything and there's this sort of hilarious Arnie to it despite everything that radiohead did they're still seen by many as retroactively part of the Classic Rock Cannon and a total dad rock band and it's just so tony, it's so. Yes. Idea that that kid was going to destroy rock music or that radiohead was sort of out to like separate themselves from rock history. and. You're right I. DO think that that album actually ushered them into the classic rock sort of status. You know because now they are this rare legacy band that you know they can headline festivals, they can play arenas and I think they had been passed down from generation to generation because of records like kit a I think the thing with radiohead is that they've always been able to play it both ways in a lot of respects that they can play the sort of anti-iraq card. While at the same time leaning into it, you know it was just like when they were inducted into the rock and Roll Hall of fame like. They sort of made fun of the idea for a while and like you know obviously time you're can Jonny Greenwood didn't show up but like Ed O'Brien and still sell way did they were actually very lovely onstage give very nice acceptance speech. So it's like they kind of reject that honor what the same time accepting it at the same time and I think that's true of kid a kid a could sort of reject the classic rock cannon but I think now twenty years later that's a classic rock record. You know I don't think there's really any arguing with that. So there's so many contradictions in this band but. There are a lot of great artists you know that's what makes our great. I think being able to reconcile those contradictions and some level. It's kind of hilarious like you know it's not like David. Bowie hadn't made low a million years beforehand. And still stayed David Bowie and. Even this mashing Pumpkins of all people hadn't made a door two years earlier, and some of it was a bit of like as great as I think, this album isn't I literally put it in my top five albums of all time. It's just never was as radical as anyone wanted to be. You know it's beautiful. It's radical nece or lack thereof is besides the point to me. Well and you know that that template that you're talking about where the guitar rock hero transitions into being like an electron electric mic provocateur tour I. mean that has been used again and again, and it seems like maybe David, Bowie originated although maybe you could say the Beatles did when they went from, you know hard as night to sergeant pepper going from being like this lovable gave rock band being an experimental studio bound band, but I think. With radiohead, they're definitely referencing David Bowie when he went into his Berlin trilogy, there's some talking heads in there when they went to remain in light after being this postponed ban on their early records. Of course, Brain Ito is a common denominator in both of those. I. Mentioned you to earlier you to did the same thing with acting baby who roper and an after radiohead you have like arcade fire doing the same thing with reflector and everything now. And you know they use James. Murphy, was there Brian Eno and reflector you know so? There does seem to come a point where if you become successful enough as a guitar rock band that like you almost have to make the electric like curveball record that's your record now. And Yeah now it's like I think when when today was made, it was like, oh, they're doing their Berlin trilogy record. But now it might be you're doing your kid a record now. On that note. Steven Hyden. Thanks so much for joining us today. Clearly, we could have done this. All Day Stephen is the author of the new book. This isn't happening radiohead kid a and the. Of, the twenty century. Thanks again, and that is today's episode. We'll be back next week here on Sirius Xm's volume channel one of six. In the meantime, we are a podcast download as a podcast subscribe to the podcast wherever you gave podcast maybe listen nice reviewing items if you can. But as always stay safe thanks for listening and we will see you next. Panoply.

radiohead Time York Richard It Ziggy stardust Thom Yorke Britney Spears twenty twenty Mrs Rolling Stone Music Iraq Steven Welcome Brian Steven Hi Uproxx Emmy Brian Hiatt Gore Supreme Court
EP-26: Pandemic Play-By-Play

Sports On Pause

58:24 min | 3 months ago

EP-26: Pandemic Play-By-Play

"In. Your soul will inbound. Siachen back in. Got To be aware of the inbounder here if you're filling. Off the letter to it by scenes in. The Art of a great. Kevin Harlan pre-detention and excitement in a matter of seconds quite Leonard in the raptors knocked out the sixers won. From zero to sixty in a split second. Dan, Shulman called Jose Batista's backflip like he had it in his back pocket. Sex. In Goldberg from Victoria to Saint John. Chris, cut. said a nascent on fire in two thousand, ten, a Sidney crosby won Olympic gold for Canada. With the NHL Nature League, Baseball and the National Basketball Association all returning. These three broadcasters have unprecedented assignments ahead of them. They'll call games an empty arenas, studios and bubbles. And they join us on the sports on positive. You folks at home and we here in the conversation. We'll watch history in the making. Donovan I'm I'm very excited about our. podcast today because as you know in my other. American. Life I cover the United, states sports media. For another company, and so these are three broadcasters in honesty, who are? At what they do in the case, obviously of Dan Schulman and Kevin Harlan Call Multiple Sports Chris Cuthbert of course is one of the iconic hockey voices. In North America and what's really interesting, is that for guys who have a lot of experience for guys who've been in the business for a long time. This is an unprecedented assignment. They're about to sort of experience something that they have never done in their broadcasting careers, which given the names of the people on this podcast to me is just remarkable. I mean just think about Kevin. Harlan is going to be. Inside the NBA bubble he's going to have to test clean for covert nineteen, for whatever it is four to seven days, so he's going to be in a very odd environment then he's GonNa get sprung, and then he's GonNa have to call Games in just this unique environment with no crowds. The Broadcasting Element of this is just a very very interesting thing to examine into talk about no question about the job. You have less shots. Fans who are going to have any of these celebrity interviews to break up the play. It's really going to be the broadcasters, the storytellers that play by play callers carrying the broadcast and making it entertaining, and that's what separates the guys at the. Top of the profession and everyone else in the really interesting thing about the guys that we're talking about today, not only are they great at it. They do it. In Multiple Sports in each sport has its own cadence and style and rhythm, and they've been able to do it for a long long time including our first guest who you probably have heard if you're a football fan as he's done a great job, broadcasting eleven super bowls, but if you're a basketball fan, you know his work for the five final fours he's. Announcing for Westwood One and Monday night football, but right now he's working for Turner in TNT sports calling the restart of the NBA and he'll do it from the bubble. He joins US Kevin Harlan Sir guests next on sports on PAS podcast. Before we get into, you know what calling games moving forward is going to be like. What has it been like not calling games? Are you calling you know street, Hockey and Street Basketball Games just to stay sharp and pass the time. Well Donovan Richard It's wonderful to be with you. Thanks for your invitation. I've Kinda used it actually like I normally would at this time of year when the NBA playoffs. Which stop for me, personally I would be off basically from the middle of May in a normal calendar until about first week in August when I would start, and I felt preseason and I broadcast those for the packers Green Bay, packers td networks so. I'm kind of used to a long spill where I can truly turn off the spigot and read books and sweep a little bit later, and not keep up with the daily headlines in the paper or reading the athletic or the different venues that I visit to keep up on the different sports that I cover so I do take my foot off the gas a little bit. And I find that that makes me refreshed. Juvenile did and ready to go. This has been so different because. We know there was the attempt to restart with the NBA would just didn't know when, and then when that began to kind of clarify itself, it really lined up with normally start anyways, so in actuality lost to by the last two months of my regular schedule, which would have been perhaps twenty five thirty basketball games, and we'll definitely here in the bubble in Orlando coming up and meet that number, certainly as we go into the football season, so it's been actually quite normal. I've been joined the time with my family in particular I've have missed sports dearly, but have enjoyed the time to kind of re balance, a little bit and rest in addition to staying healthy Kinda my daily routine. Kevin. How did these side vent inside the NBA Bubble in Orlando? Come about, and did you volunteer for it? Well, they hit asked along the way going back to March, because there wasn't really known if they would restart in the middle of March, we're all heading to different games, and they postpone the season as we know, and as we were going from that point onward, in fact, maybe even a week to two weeks before that date. A call came from Turner and asked if I felt comfortable with the growing concern about the virus. You know in February. Would I be comfortable? Still traveling and I said I would be. Then of course, it stopped abruptly and I was comfortable I was hoping to be quite honest. That! We could have done from Atlanta. In a studio, but when they chose to go to Orlando, and that may have been driven by ESPN, which is owned by Disney, saying well. We're going to be in Orlando, doing these games and I think the League certainly preferred us all being on site so again. No trouble doing that. The problem is for a lot of the broadcasters who have other things going on at this time on the calendar, namely baseball in the beginning of the NFL. Some pretty significant problems were arising and one of which was when you go in the bubble. You can't leave. Leave the bubble. You've got to be there for a certain amount of time, and then when you come back in, reenter it. You've got to go through all the protocol and everything else which were all signed with? But there wasn't the dexterity and being able to get in. Get out getting out as we might do. If refined, you do a game in Saint Louis, and then in Denver, and then in Boston or Toronto, so you know there was some problems there that that came up and a lot of us along the Turner, and in my kcbs navigate. A schedule that had to say unfortunately I can't do this because this now falls into the natural contracted schedule of an NFL season, and unfortunately I've had declined some opportunities with Turner because this is football's natural year, and this is more of an artificial NBA season, but no answer, the question I had no problem at all. Getting involved in the schedule and being a part of what you know, the NBA and Turner WanNa. Do and I'm honored that we're a part of moving forward. So you are really a unique case where your voice in your work is known as much in one sport, as it is in another most people, the the dominant in sport, but they can you know flex their muscles and do another sport a fast. Now there looks like the won't be an NFL preseason so obviously, that's not an issue. But how have you had to manicure your schedule to make sure that you'll be doing some work in the bubble? And then eventually doing some NFL work going to look like for you this summer and fall as all of the sports converge at the same times well, that's a good question. Donovan, so when Marv, Albert and our sports. Leader at Turner Jeff Zucker had the publicized conversation about Bar, not going to the bubble for various reasons. in late June turner called and said this is the schedule we've got for you. Including the conference finals immediately and looking at my calendar paging page by page. Give me the dates again, remedies or scheduled as of now, and of course, it was very much moving target. And when they start giving me the dates and looking at NFL overlapped, and it was significant, it was in fact, the entire month of September. And I- tennis it okay. Let me dig into this a little bit more. And I'm flattered for the opportunity for this particular final. Sit In from our. Who I revere and respect so much always has. Never been under voice like him. Knowing that this is just you know for this year, but because we're kind of connecting the dots here we need to is Turner was saying Kinda Plug. People in and we'd like you to do it. So this put us in a position where everything now is kind of the wild west. Because you've got contracts, stipulate you work basketball on these days in this time of the year, but now that that has been transplanted on top of a season and a contract which. Really is this time of year and on these dates. You know we've got a problem. And so that took about two and a half plus. To figure out and to be quite honest I'm not sure the discussions that happened, but I did not get involved in. This is one of the reasons why you have some representation. But the discussion was that I do the beginning of the regular season restart? I'll be off in the first round of the playoffs, and then I'll continue with the second round of the playoffs, and then go right literally for my last playoff game in the second round. Whatever the series that may be right to my nfl week one start CBS. From your perspective, regarding health regarding medical protocols. What have you done prior to handing in the bubble to educate yourself talked to doctors, etc, and then what are you expecting once? You get in the bubble regarding the medical part of this assignment. Well begin with the last part of that Richard so I'm GonNa fly down on July twenty five Saturday night. Tested first thing in the morning on Sunday then again, Monday and then again Tuesday morning. The NBA is I, think contract at a test program or provider that will give very quick results and we'll find out. not immediately, but as close to immediately as you can. In this world we're in if I'm negatives, and then I'll be able to go inside the area. And we'll be allowed in, and they've color coded each. Degree so for instance, coaches, players, executives, team, personnel and sideline reporters are in the green area. We as broadcasters me. Mike Breen and others are analysts are in the yellow area. Yellowcard, and then in the red shore up I'm getting these colors correct the technical people producers directors, we as broadcasters do not have any face to face any kind of close contact at all with anybody in the Green Zone. Our reporters coaches players team personnel in so when we're in the hotel. which has been designated for just broadcast people outside of reporters who were in a different area? We can come and go from that hotel in a very limited scope. We can I think in small groups get together for instance for a lunch or dinner. But not with people in the right area, but just in people in our color-coded area, so there's a bunch of things we've got to go through what we tested twice a week. Tuesdays and Fridays I believe, and we can have no contact with anyone outside. No family loved. Ones can join us down there. No guests nothing. Or certainly rules and laws in place in this temporary setting personally We've got three daughters and our son. Our middle daughter is pregnant with her second child. Do late September. She also has one and a half year old, so my concern personally is coming off an airplane traveling the way we'll be reacclimating myself to my family and I don't know that you know. I will feel comfortable being around my pregnant daughter and her baby the one and a half year old, and then my wife of course will be with their daughter, and very close to our family member so I mean it brings in a whole series of things. I've got a I've got kind of work through, but otherwise I've got the P. adhering to the three basics. They say cover your face. Wash your hands. Keep your distance and went on in the bubble. Those things will be easy to do but when. When I leave that bubbling, go back to the Orlando, airport and flight wherever I'm going to meet my family I. Don't know if I've contracted it from the point of left the bubble to the time. I see them so. I am a little bit concerned about that transition and how we're GONNA. Handle it and I'm just going to have to kind of Play it maybe our and our minute to minute, but my guess is, I will probably keep my distance unfortunately from for most of my family when I return. That's heartbreaking to hear you say. You don't know how comfortable you'll be. My wife got his head. He's three now. Eleven I don't know, find that heartbreaking. All play Sankey lowered for feel. Talk a lot I didn't notice how much you talk. So much much. Humane fight a nice little re relief from. Trump, from being around so much, but I am going to miss being with our grandson, and and then certainly when our daughter by the grace of God will deliver her second. You know being around them for for that very important time when? She is a newborn and my daughter's just delivered. Listen all the broadcasters and varying degrees are facing. Some anybody who travels is facing some risk and I think we all know that. Speaking from recent experience. Grandkids are like the lifeblood. Enjoy for grandparents, so that's heartbreaking. Put in that spot. I wanted to transition. You mentioned it. You know the challenges that broadcasters having to a different challenge and it's the mechanics of. Do this. We've seen videos of what the court looks like. It looks like you're calling games. You know from the penalty box with the glass up. Better yet. Hey, this is a service for you we can workshop these things You know calling games a great relationship with WHO you're calling them with, and whether you just gotTa. Touch on the shoulder point something out. That's impossible social distancing in the intimacy that you have calling a game on the floor. It might be lost plus the mechanics of how you guys will shoot Intel stories with no fans. How're you preparing to do a job very differently, but trying to still do it at a high level well, a Lotta guys question a lot of eye contact probably because we're going to be in the goal judges box. There are a lot of other things to about that. You know when we do NFL football games occasionally will be sealed broadcast booth. And the bounce of your voice off. That window is significant. Actually mine a call today to address this because the more I've looked at the at the logistics of were, they've got us like in a booth for NFL broadcast. If you're hitting net thing straight on, you can back up or you can even turn to the side and talk the length of the booth. Not The have that so there would be a big play in the NFL. I would, oftentimes instead of you know using a stronger voice in delivery as I'm looking out that. That window, and maybe a foot or two away I would learn by listening to tapes. Turn sideways in almost talk in the back of the booth and sideways. The length of the booth were new. There was no reverberation. My voice is not backing up well in this scenario, we've got glass on both sides and in front so I. Don't know if I'm GONNA literally look to the rafters to have my voice go skyward and up because it's going to sound that way, I mean they're only by four feet wide and three feet deep. So there's not a lot of room and you're. You're going to sound even as great as these headsets are in the in the technical. We have in the truck. If you get going and you, you know blast a call, you know. It's GonNa Bounce back at you and it's GonNa sound different and I know some of this. Because doing the two K. NBA video series, we are now doing a lot of it from our individual homes Doris Burke. Burke in Rhode Island in Philadelphia and me and Wisconsin Touring Kansas City, and in all the other guys, we've got a big part of it. If you're in a closet or in a room under the acoustics, and they did all kinds of foam and everything else around us, make it sound like we're in a studio. So this is GonNa have the very bare bones, remnants of like these walls that are very close. I mean like it's like I. I stretch out my arm and touch one side of the wall, and my other arm, and such the other wall in front of me. Reach at my palm. Be Against this class, but in terms of you know once you get doing a game and you can't have that, you know knee, hit or an elbow, Jab, your partners. They have done or hey. I'M GONNA. Lead You I. Don't know how that's. GonNa work. It's going to be more I. I think just glance and and everything else when you can't bang the glass because you're going to hear it in your headset mic, so the two guys that really I think about when I think about you know how important that nudge or that or that little lean into is Doug Collins and bill raftery when I did games with them. They're both very for lack of a better term. Hansie and they'll grab my forearm if they'd got. Important I'm going to say and I'll stop mid sentence, so they can get it out and Raff. Would you know leaning into Neo Lot? And Doug grabbed my hand or kick me with his artificial knee under the table. You know and say hey, listen I've gotten a real important part here and I would stop talking literally in the middle of it. He would interject, and then I'd finished my sense. We move on. So if they arm, brace me or a punch me, or if they give me a chicken wing with elbow hard I know that they're really impressed with what they just saw, and I might even move into a different gear with my call, because I know that to them, the expert, the person that played or coach. It means something like that was like hey. Brother that was unbelievable. So that's the Kinda give and take. You'RE GONNA. Miss with having us in these gold judge boxes that we're going to be in so there. Couple logistical things, your mechanical things that definitely will come into play and have to get used to that. Will thing. We're all going to have to get used to the fact that there's fans and from someone who produces features like you are the gift to feature producer, because you give us so many calls and grading sound ups right? No regard for Human Life Lebron James like that was part of the Cultural Lexicon people saying that obviously, in Toronto we love the is this the dagger right? And then the reaction you found a way to ride the emotion in the building, and then make your call, and then get out of the way and let it breathe and let the fans tell the story well, there are no fans. There's no emotion for you to amplify. How are you going to? figure out a mostly how to bring your passion through on the call when you're calling a game in a somewhat sterile environment. Well I'm hopeful that I'M GONNA get so lost in the game in the mechanics of the game strategy and the great individual play, great team play that all just kind of mentally transformed, and so focused into that zone where you don't hear anything I've said this before, but I'm stunned sometimes when I go back and watch my games and review and great. Would that I. Hear so much like loud ta music, and like artificial noise from the different teams and home arenas tried to get the fans into it with the banging drop or screaming Ta Guy or whatever like I'm just stunned like what I'm here I go. I cannot believe this stuff. And I only notice it when I go back a couple of days after the game to review that if you've been in there when I'm doing the game, even with these headsets on to pick up everything. I never hear that stuff like it never registers on my radar and the other thing is when we're doing the NBA to get video game stuff a lot of times. They'll ask me to watch a clip and there's very low crowd noise on it because I'm watching a clip. Where a couple of different plays back to back and I've gotta would sued some emotion when I watch these plays and the sheer act that the emotion that I conjure up and the play that I'm watching. Kinda goes hand in hand. It's not that difficult, but I've done that so many years not that I would fake it by any means, but I'm really not as worried about that is. I am just kind of making sure that I get into the saddle and I grabbed the stirrups, and I'm holding onto the rain and I've got that comfort. Level that when I'm on that horse. Maneuver at the way I want to, and you know it takes a while to adjust and wiggle into place, and got a firm grip and get your feet in there make sure they're snug and tight. That's kind of what it will be for broadcasters getting in this new environment in this new setting in this new saddle and getting hold of what the environment is going to be like, but I really think there's so many professional guys out there that after a while, they'll adapt like the players are going to have to adapt to kind of different setting for them on the floor. I think all adapt and and do the best. We can do the next couple months. We are self. See looking forward to watching over the next couple of months, but most importantly stay safe when you go to that airport. Make sure you get TSA pre check. Get right through, so you can get home to your loving family and keep them safe as well have a great call and have a great season both seasons. Thanks for spending the time. Thank you Donovan thank you. Richard a pleasure to be on. Thank you so much. Wishing you safety. Your family's all your lessons. Celek Kevin Harlan Chris. has had some amazing calls calling football for Cuthbert. It'd be Canadian football, but right now like Kevin Harlan he is covering the restart in the ending in the playoffs. Export, hockey the National Hockey League after. Doing amazing work over the last thirty years, calling games for CBC in Tsn and NBC His joined the Sports Net. Family and we'll be a part of our hockey night coverage as we cover the Stanley Cup playoffs, his hub city will be adamant in, and he tells us what that experience might be like next on the sports on pause podcast. So Chris Cuthbert is an award winning broadcaster Gemini. Award winner, Canadian broadcaster of the Year award winner in at this time of the year most years he's calling Canadian football, telling those stories as well as obviously being known for calling hockey's most famous goal, arguably the golden goal at the Olympics while he's one of the few people who during A. was able to get a new job and he's come over to Rogers Sports. That is going to be calling hockey. Forest Chris. Congratulations on the new opportunity the new GIG. Your perspective you are now being thrown in to calling some really. Hopefully, well watched high leverage hockey with a new team, a new crew in doing it differently given. It's going to be a hub city. That's a lot of change where in our industry were often creatures of habits. What is this period been like for you? It is hectic and and dizzying, but it's exciting in when you get as old as me a little excitement. KINDA NEAT and What's the game starts a lot of it is the same I kind of liken this tournament to a an extended version of what we just did at the Olympics in twenty eighteen, so I'm hoping that there is some similarity there and that the rhythm that I got into pretty quickly in Korea will be something I'll be able to do in the Edmonton hop and. You know what when I got into the business a long time ago, my goal was to be on hockey night in Canada and I'm excited to be back on hockey night. I'm I'm a hockey night in Canada veteran, but I'm I'm a rookie was sports net and it's just great to be. Getting ripped up once again. In terms of the specifics of the broadcasting element and understanding that these are unprecedented times and things can change. What can you tell our listeners about the mechanics of what you're going to have to do broadcasting these games? Well. You know it's still is a real unknown to broadcast in an empty rink is going to be a a different challenge, although there were games in career up in a small venue in an Asian Games that the hockey venue is not always the hot spot, and it wasn't in Korea, so I guess when we can draw a little on that, but it's going to be different than playoff hockey in any venue, particularly in places like Toronto at Edmonton it, the the atmosphere is is just off the charts, and and as a broadcaster you use that energy you tap into the crowd. Is If there yet? Another broadcast partner per se? On the telecast of allay out a lot more use that energy and that's something. We probably won't have in any way at least i. don't anticipate having that same ability during these games, so that's test. Multiple Games. Today is different, but it is. It's not completely foreign to me I. Know I'm doing a lot more prep than I would've before. Fortunately, we've had a lot of time to do, but to do. Three different series of the first round is is exciting for me. It's it's different a little bit more hectic than one or maybe two different series. You might get in a normal playoff year although I will say that. I have had playoff. Playoff rounds with NBC where I have I think there was one year I did. Every Canadian team involved in the playoffs in the opening round by bouncing around can happen. You just have to prepare in advance I think one of the advantages will be that. You're doing it all in one place, so you're not changing timezones. You're not hopping on a plane every second day. Add You can kind of set up shop. I liked the consistency of that. If you could. What are you know right now about testing for yourself? having talked to a number of broadcasters, you were inside bubbles, Orlando or in Bradenton. the testing for covid nineteen has been You know robust and invasive and daily in terms of you going inside this. Will call the city bubble. What are you know regarding the testing that you're going to have to face? Richard I don't have to do any testing, because technically yes, I'm not in that NHL Bobble I mean I wouldn't show up if I didn't feel well enough I have not been tested when I came back from the end of the season, I, actually did the last game on the joke calendar which was Ottawa Los Angeles said. I didn't travel with the senators down from San, Jose into Anaheim and Los Angeles in actually didn't have any contact with the senators which was fortunate, because they did have a few cases coming out of there. When I came back from Arizona couple days later, when went into quarantine? I would have liked to have been tested. There are times the last four months. Just for peace of mind, I thought I should be tested, but have not and my wife's nurse and tells me that I'm not showing any symptoms or have it, so there's no need for it so anyway. I I go to Edmonton, and will again be outside the bubble so without a test and. I'll be wearing my mask and. Taking care and and again not having any contact with anybody in that bubble so besides temperature checks. I think that's all I'll be going through when I enter the building. So this is a very unique experience, and it's a different level of sacrifice both the time away from home and from your family, but also because the virus is still present. Did you have any reservations or trepidation once? You knew that the Games would be back on in taking the assignment. Not Really. I had a little concern about whether or not. You know if I would have been able to go to a different hub city like. When I saw the numbers there, but you know it's funny because I've I've read about some concern about coaches, assistant coaches, and because of their age should, in some cases have been described as their advanced age I go wait a minute I'm that old but Again. I've been careful I've been cognizant of what's happening around encouraged by the fact that Alberta's not been a hotspot. Edmonton is not been a hot spot in the. Family is a little more concerned about a flight to get there, but I've been kind of just. Take the proper precautions. And Trust the process and I think everything's GonNa be fine. One of the great sort of unknowns here for all these sports is is what we're going to say. What the quality of play will be for starters just exciting to have it back, and that's going to be awesome in itself, but you've called hockey for a long long time. Never any kind of situation like this where there's been this kind of you know sort of absence of play during a regular season, and then a return in the summer. What kind of quality of play do you expect both in Edmonton and Toronto? Has Been trying to keep tabs on all the teams involved. I think it's. We're starting the learn that. Uh, the skill players seemed to be ready now. It's easy to have all that skill and thrill in your scrimmages when you're just practicing against your teammates, and and you don't get that. The violent aspect of AH. Playoff hockey which we know is going to come. Whether those skill players are going to be a little bit ahead of the curve. I'm not sure I like to comment from Edmonton. oiler General Manager Ken Holland. Today said you know. I'm not going to tell you that. Any one of the twenty four teams can win the COP, but one of the twenty four teams could probably win around in especially with that first qualifying round, being three out of five as again. Ken, mentioned, you know the team that loses game. One they're facing must win in the second game of. Of the series so I think there's going to be some urgency. Right from the get go. In fact, this is probably as healthy as most teams and most players are heading into a playoff round so I I think there'll be some unpredictability, because it is different I think there might be some three or four leads the evaporate, but again nobody really knows for sure, but it's not going to surprise me if within a week, the caliber of play is exactly what we hope for from satellite a playoff hockey. This is new because you have a new broadcast partner Luda. Brusque. What are those conversations like? How do you guys? Build a chemistry without having worked the front end of the season together. It's a good question. I, Louis, and I have spoken a few times. I think it's going to be seamless. Because of the broadcaster, he is and I really liked to lean on Mayan, lowest because they usually make me look and sound better. I've worked with over sixty different color commentators and a lot of those are one two or three games, and that was it and. I found that the you know we could get up to speed pretty quickly. The fact that we got a couple of exhibition games helps and the fact that we're going to be on the air once and sometimes twice every day early. I think we're going to get up to speed pretty quickly I I've got great admiration for Louis We've had a couple of dinners on the road. You Pass Playoffs when? He was working for hockey night, and we were doing the same series, for NBC and he's GonNa eat more than me, but I think we're GONNA? Get along. You'll leave some scraps on the table for me two. And lastly in this is unique. We've ever had an absence of sports for so long and then a bunch of sports all at the same time. There's different thoughts on. is going to distract from the real important conversations. We've had as a site in really as sports an essential service. What do you think the response to the amount of sports? Being given to the public is going to be once. You're back on the air. While I, I'm expecting high ratings, and you know I don't know if that's a vital measure right now, but I think there is a pent up need for or maybe needs not the right word, but I think fans are looking forward to a different kind of distraction I. Don't think that means that a lot of the issues. We're facing right now are going to get pushed. Aside in any way but I think people are ready for for something different than and I wouldn't have always said that about a summer hockey I think a lot of people in Canada loved the game so much, but they also want their summers away from the game, but you know I've been stopped on the street. A few times recently for People say at Gatwick Dear you back on the air. We're going to be sitting by the pool watching games, which is something you don't often hear, but I think there is an appetite to get back to it and. it'll be interesting to see if he does have any difficulty. Gaining is when the other sports are going on against them. We are fascinated to watch and see your voice in your being a part of the coverage will help certainly gain. Some is as many people are excited. You've had over thirty years in the industry, but what you're about to do is very very unique. So how within stay thank you for joining US sports on PAS podcast. They really appreciate it, guys. Yeah if you. If you hang around long enough, something different comes up in this different. If might be one of the more exciting Jefferson. Appreciate sharing it with you. It'd be appreciate that conversation with Chris Cuthbert and we turn now to another outstanding broadcaster, who Canadian audiences are long familiar with as our US fans of college, Basketball and baseball. Dan Schulman is the voice of the Toronto Blue Jays, and he like our previous guests is about to enter a unprecedented situation for him when it comes to broadcasting, and that is calling Toronto Blue Jays. Games not from a stadium. But from a studio and Dan Schulman's speaks with us on the sports on Pause podcast about all the challenges that the nexus of cove in Nineteen in sports will present for him. Are Dead. Showman really needs no introduction in Canada. He is the Blue Jays television voice. You will hear him. Sports net ESPN audiences, the United States, no his fine work on baseball and college basketball. He joins US Today on sports on pause. We don't know if he's in Buffalo or Baltimore or Pittsburgh Pittsburgh or name the city that the Blue Jays may be in all seriousness. Dan of courses will be based in Toronto and Dan. Let's start with this as we are taping this today. which is close to the Blue Jays start of the season. Can you give us a sense of what you know about your broadcast schedule? Understanding that it probably has changed dramatically in the last. Forty eight to ninety six hours. Yeah well. A lot is inflexible and good to be with you guys dot Richardson, and so we're just over twenty four hours away from the blue. Jays first game so before the federal government and Canada's said no, you can't play here. Our expectation was we were going to do the thirty home games from the ballpark from Rogers Center in an empty stadium, but in our normal booth and we will do the thirty road gains from the sports, net studios, or for those in Canada the Tim. Tim and Sid. Studio is where we're going to be doing the games farm. What what has changed is that now all sixty will be done from a studio, so if the Jays Klay, the Pittsburgh thing is gone by the wayside. As you know whether it's Baltimore or Buffalo, or who knows where bucket I will still be sitting in the same studio for Sixty Games. The real differences I guess are on the production side. WHO's providing the feed? How are we getting that feed and then? Hopefully, are we making the best of it in our studio? We I tweeted out a picture a few days ago. We have the biggest monitor I've ever seen sitting right in front of the desk where bucket and I will be which will give us the game feed, but we need more than the game feet, so the other team will be providing camera angles. We'll have a camera on. The scoreboard will have a camera on. The bullpens will have a camera high above the field just. Just showing the field, so we can see how the defense is situated and again none of it replaces the ability to just look out of your broadcast booth. Live ballpark and see everything for yourself, but we're trying to recreate that as best we can, and you know broadcasters from all thirty teams. We're doing it. We're trying to recreate that as best we can. So hopefully for the viewers. The differences are not that noticeable. Yeah, the the photo he tweeted it was a great one. No longer. Can you tell your kids? They're sitting too close to television as you're basically broadcasting from what looks like a future shop. But baseball so much about storytelling. I think more so than many of the other sports, and you will lose in a way the ability to hang out around the batting cage and talk to the manager. A player is see the adjustments that they're working on. How will you change the way you tell stories? Because you're not going to be in close proximity to the team anymore. It's a great question because you're right. So during the pandemic, every team is providing their media, one or two players and a manager per day. You get them on zoom, but everybody's getting the same guy so everybody's got the same information and you're exactly right I mean. A huge part of the job is just. Just going into the clubhouse or going to the batting cage during BP. And you know sometimes it's on the record. Sometimes it's off, but just going up to a guy and saying so, what are you working on? Or how have you done against this pitcher or tell me what you think about this Guy's development? One of your teammates something like that. All of that is gone and. It's a great point you made, and you've just made me break out in a cold sweat because of it, so I wanNA. Thank you for that, because of course if you do football, basketball or hockey. Most of it, the vast majority of play by play is the action, but as you said in baseball so much of storytelling, and that's one of my favorite things about it I love that pace. It's so different from my college basketball job, but you're right. We're going to have to tell a lot of stories to get through it. There are no crowd shots there. You know there are a lot of things we're used to. Having won't be there. The Nice thing is is I've got a guy sitting beside me and Bach. Who's been doing this forever? I'd known him forever. And he knows everybody and he's a great storyteller dwell and and. I think we might wind up telling some stories about things that maybe we wouldn't have done eight quote unquote normal year, but will endeavor to get all the information we can, and and try to tell as many stories as we can, and I think it'll be. There'll be some trial and error too much of this. Not Enough of that I'm sure after every game will sit down with our producer and say okay. What worked and what didn't and how do we try to get better tomorrow Dan one of things in talking to a lot of broadcasters, and there's a lot of challenges for the assignment that you're about to. Head on, because most of the people are going to be broadcasting from studios right now and talking to broadcasters, one of the things that's that's GonNa be the challenge is to. How do you amp up enthusiasm and energy when you don't have the crowd to naturally draw from on that so I wonder from your perspective, have you? Either one talked to other broadcasters? Who might have done that prior or to? Have you actually gone about practicing? The way an actor would almost a method actor would to like call like a game winning home run when it's just you and buck, and maybe a producer a so in a studio with literally no sound. I haven't done it yet, but it's another great question, and it's one that I have thought about a lot and I know the first thing. I will do when I get home at night. After the first game is, I will have taped the game and I will go back and watch it and I will watch the big moments I because you're right I know what I what I need to do in a Ballpark, full of thirty or forty thousand people in order to meet the moment. And in theory, of course, I should do the exact same thing in the studio, but will I feel silly doing that in a studio when it's just me and buck. In the room so again I think it's going to be a feel thing I haven't practiced yet. I tend to be one who just kind of goes with his gut like do what feels right, and hopefully most of the time it is right, but again I think that'll be a trial and error thing, Richard now go back and say okay. It sounded like an eight out of ten on the adrenaline meter when I did it. It, but when I watched it back on TV, it was only a five at its head on the adrenaline so I. I've gotTa do a little bit more. It's you know uncharted waters right, and you guys know that as well as anybody so I'm not sure the guy who can practice in advance and listen to it I think just wind up. I don't know if I could take myself seriously if I did that, but. Some people have said to me. Are you worried you won't meet the moment and some people have said. Are you worried? You'll overcompensate and do too much. which might even be a bigger mistake ultimately so again? Hopefully, find that sweet spot before law. So Canadian baseball fans over the last couple of years have gotten the treat of having you. It's almost like this desert like okay. Solman can fits into the schedule and I wonder now. What is that schedule? What will your responsibilities be for potential college basketball season if there is one or any other duties with ESPN, how has the sports world all converging at the same time in the restarts changed the cadence of how you work. Very much so, but I would say on a temporary basis, so you know when I was doing. Sunday night baseball, ESPN, doing a limited number of Lucia games I left. Sunday nights a couple of years ago. Wanted to be home a little bit more so now that I don't do Sunday night baseball do a little bit of baseball for ESPN but I really don't do much for. For them anymore until we get to the playoffs when I do the whole run on ESPN radio, but during the regular season I'm kind of a utility guy for them right now, and as you guys may know if you've watched any of be. Oh, the Korean baseball, League that ESPN been broadcasting announcers are doing those games from their homes, and it's apparently a very elaborate somewhat. Kit that is being shipped and set up in the announcers homes, allowing them to do the game so about two weeks ago. I called my boss at ESPN and my baseball Boston. I said Hey. Do you think you'RE GONNA? Use Me at all. And he said No. I don't think so because of the kid. We're just going to keep it. You know condensed to three or four guys who were going to do most of our games. It doesn't make sense to do one of these kits for somebody who might only do a couple of games for us. And he said why ask and I was just. Just curious I said, but you know. The sports net has reached out about availability here because I'm you know I'm in Canada and situated here. Already I said they've asked if I might be able to do more games than say, my contract calls for my ESPN, said, go for it and I went back to sports netted, told them that so and they said could you do all sixty? And I said yeah, this year I can do all sixty so this is not a normal year. I don't expect next year to be like that, but then going to the winter which you asked about Donovan. I'm all in again on ESPN college basketball item do anything for sports net after baseball season in so I'm really hoping there's college basketball it is a passion of mine is something I've done for over twenty five years, and I get to go to sunglasses and great arenas, and do cool rivalries that and I don't know if it'll exist. We have no idea could start in. November could start in January. It may not started all I may do games on site I may do Games from Bristol Connecticut. I may do games from home. I have no idea so. I think we'll have the college football example to see how that may go before we find out how college basketball may go, but I'm really hoping in November I'm calling college basketball game for some. Down I WANNA. Follow up on that. Because every broadcaster has to make individual decisions, you are in a really unique position that you are Canadian, you live in Canada, and if you ended up covering United States Sports American sports, you'd have to travel over the border back to the US. Where so many people are in the country that we are broadcasting from are trying to prevent Americans from coming our way. It's a personal choice. Where do you stand in terms of being on site of traveling to the states as a broadcaster? You have children. So that's you're married. That's obviously a factor when it comes to that stuff I. I think people would find an interesting. Just what thought process has been on the possibilities of having to travel to a country where cove in nineteen is in a very different position than what you are dealing with. With, now in Toronto people may not know that it's an MLB wide thing that visiting broadcasters are not going on site to call game, so forget Toronto in Canada. For a second cubs playing the cardinals, the cardinals TV guys cannot go to reveal the game, not allowed so that was kind take it out of my hands, and I'm glad I wouldn't have wanted to have gone and our mutual boss. Rob, Korte it's or When we talked about this, he said listen, I'm not sending people to the US. He didn't WanNa do it. Not that anybody was asking, too, but again he took it out of our hands, too, so that was great, but I have thought about it in terms of October when I do the playoffs assuming I do the playoffs for you if there is a playoffs in. In baseball when I do them for ESPN radio, there's a chance at that point. Because there's there are fewer people calling games that maybe we'll be on site and then I'll have to make a decision and I think my decision would be your side. We'll go to the ballpark or they might say to me. We're GONNA. Call Them from the studio in Bristol Connecticut. If my choice Richard would be crossed the border to call the world series or don't cross the border, and you can't call the world series. What my gut is telling me now is that I would cross the border I would work the interesting thing. Is You know when you do a whole month of October? If the division series ends in four instead of five, you get to sneak home for a couple of days. See Your family then go back out for ten days for the. That can't work anymore, because if I come home and things are still the way they are right now I've got a quarantine for fourteen days. So one thing I know is if I do the playoffs like leaving home for at least a month, and I'm not coming back, and that's something that my wife and I talked about a little bit but again. Just like six months ago seems like six years ago. October seems light years away right now, even though I know it's not, and we gotta get through a baseball season before that happens, but it's something will have to decide in moment, but right now if they asked me to work in October I think I would cross the border and just take every single precaution that I can take. You've seen this industry really changed the way we tell. Stories has changed how people consume. The stories we tell has changed. I wonder how you think as all industries are now changing because of Covid, nineteen, our media industries going to be different moving forward what our new normal is going to become. I think you'll see less traveling and that had already happened. As you guys know in Richard, maybe specifically because you know covering the US sports scene as much there are more and more remi's being done in for those who don't know a remers where some people could be. The announcers could be the announcers and a producer and the director and some technical crew, not as many people around site doing games, and the feeling well saves a lot of money so like. Like if I'm doing Duke and Carolina I'm on site, but if you're doing a much lower level smaller game, that's going to get a much smaller audience. oftentimes a lot of people including the announcers may not be on site, and I think just like any other industry Donovan where a lot of people have discovered. Hey I can do my job just as well from home as I can. From the office I think sports TV is not immune and whether it's. It's graphics, or whether it's the announcers or or different aspects of the show I think we're going to St more and more things done remotely whether it's from home or a studio rather than on site and I know there are certain advantages to it, obviously this moment from a health and safety protocol there are enormous advantages to it, but assuming the world eventually gets back to some kind of normal I. Think you lose something when you're not on site and you. You know. I'll be able to speak to this much better at the end of the baseball season, but you know doing games from the studio is not like doing games from the arena whether it's baseball or basketball, or whatever it is so the other thing that could change that again and I'm sure you guys have talked about this that to me would not be a good trend is right now the teams they're really setting the tone in terms of media access. Here's the zoom with the team manager at four o'clock. That's what it is, and and I when all is said and done that we can, still as you talked about before Donovan I can still go up to the cage during batting practice and say to a player who I've got a good long relationship with. Hey, tell me what's going on. Give me the vibe here and the other issues this year. We can't develop those relationships with new players I've never met them and you get. Get to know guys when you don't have a microphone in your hand, and you don't have a notebook in your hand when it's just two guys talking to people talking and you're getting to know them and get a comfort zone and he. He trusts you in that sort of thing, so I worry a little bit about the access. Because as you said, it gets back to storytelling and I hope that's something that's kept in mind that the access isn't restricted too much going for it. Well one thing that will feel normal. We'll be hearing. Dan Schulman's voice on bluejays baseball whether he is doing that from a studio are on site somewhere Dan. We wish you the best of luck. In these unprecedented water scan one of the most interesting broadcasting assignments you've ever had. All of us will be listening and thank you so much for joining us today on the sports on pause podcast. My pleasure guys anytime. Thanks to the same view. You and yours are all doing well. All right as we come out of our conversation with Dan Shulman. We had to our last word segment where dominant I give you something that we've read or seen or heard that will provide you with Something interesting or some kind of knowledge that will help you as you navigate your own orders with covid nineteen, and this will a little bit of promotion and promotion for our previous guest. Dan Schulman his podcast returns that is a swing and a belt. It will be a daily podcast regarding baseball news and Dan's insights from around league, so that's a swing and a belt. Coming daily from sports net a podcast. You can subscribe to baseball news from around the League Donovan What Are you have? Yeah, that's a really good one. I am a longtime listener in I have subscribed, and if you subscribed to the version in the past, don't worry. You're about to be updated with more Dan Schulman content which we all need something I'm also subscribed to longtime. Wearing masks are important kind of not that hard to do, and it not only helps protect yourself more importantly helps and protects others however on my social media. I see people. Fighting with bus drivers or screaming in stores about the fact that they don't WanNa wear a mask, and I also see a lot of conspiracy theories as to why mass aren't good for you, not true so don't take it from me. Take it from the CDC. They've got an article out about the human experiment. Showing that masks do in fact work if you want one piece of hard evidence that amass prevents. Transmission of Covid nineteen here it is, it is a great quick simple easy read to explain what we should already know. Mass are. All of the guys that we talked to are going to be wearing masks as they get back to work and bring us the Games we love. Them for coming on the podcast we wish. Them. Good health. And we wish that to you, please. Although seems like the virus has gone away to still live, and presence will continue to be building. Stay safe take care of yourself.

Donovan Richard It basketball hockey Baseball Canada Toronto football National Basketball Associatio Orlando ESPN NFL Dan Schulman Chris Cuthbert Kevin Harlan United States Sports Net producer Toronto Blue Jays Turner NBC
25. The History of Presidential Elections with Jarrett Stepman

This American President

54:56 min | Last month

25. The History of Presidential Elections with Jarrett Stepman

"So. Today we have a special guest. His name is Jarrett Stegman, and Jarrett is a friend of mine. He's also quite experienced in the podcast world. He's the podcast host as well co host of the PODCAST, the right side of history, and he's also the author of the book, The war, on history so he is a season. Of talking about history and your fellow history nerd like I am so. I think we also kind of run in the same circles. So it's we've been talking about having you on the podcast here you've been. Someone we've targeted so. It's good to have you on here how you doing. I'm doing very well it's good to finally be on your show Richard It's it's definitely my pleasure to finally be on talk talk a lot of history with you. Yeah exactly. So well, obviously, this is an election year and every four years we Americans have this crazy process to choose a citizen one of our own to lead our country for the next four years. This year will be our fifty ninth presidential election and we believe just as we've. Said throughout this podcast, that history has a lot to say and offers lessons for things that are going on right now in the world, it's not something where you can mind specific answers but it's something that you can get wisdom from and so that's why we love talking about it and talking about elections in what previous elections have to offer and one topic I wanted to talk about it's related to things that have happened the selection of a vice. President? And that's always a very hotly anticipated event during elections and selecting a vice president is always fascinating to me because it's not an exact science right. There are different ways of thinking of who you should select as vice president and we've seen examples of nominees presidential nominee selecting the running mates based on geographic balancing based on ideological balancing. Sometimes, they'll double down and go for kind of the same type of person as the presidential nominee we saw that during Clinton and Dole, and Clinton. Gore rather to southern moderate candidates of their day. And there's a lot to going into choosing vice president and a lot of questions such as will this be someone that the president can work with? and. If is this person ready to be president. There's a lot of awkward situations with presidents and Vice Presidents quite frankly there've been a lot of miserable vice presidents. John Adams once said a vice president as your vice president you could be you are nothing, but you could be everything. You're not as you're not as important as the president but one day, you could be the president. So Jarrett question for you. We could talk about this. But first of all does the vice presidential choice matter do people vote based on I like this vice presidential choice. So I'm more likely to vote for this president. What do you think? What does history say? You know I would say ultimately at the end of the day, people are voting for the person at the top of the ticket that the vice presidential choice as rarely ever been the decisive factor as far as what direction election goes. People are looking at the guy at the top of the ticket unfortunately sometimes, the vice presidential spot is an afterthought as far as actually taking the position office considerations that you're speaking of the regional balancing the ideological balancing. The Unification Party, which is often one of the primary drives bree on a vice-president onto the ticket. I think that's a big part of how this election process has worked in the past not so much that it's necessarily GonNa be the deciding factor for undecided voters one way or another, but it's a way to secure large parts of a potential base of the party to say you know we have full confidence. This ticket is going to represent our views and that they're going to be heard in the White House. I, think that has been a very important but I think a lot of the time. Frankly, it hasn't been the determining factor. Now, of course, it depends on the presidential candidate. It depends on the year I would say there have been decisive vice presidential picks and something I think turnout maybe not not so good in the long run to I mean I I really think about Abraham Lincoln's choice of Andrew Johnson I think was quite dramatic because he he booted is for Vice President Hannibal Hamlin who is a Massachusetts? Very, staunch Republican Heaven, a former whig very anti slavery was part of like ticket. Palin was actually dumped from the ticket because it wasn't seen as like. Well, he's not GonNa win votes. We already have secured this the section. So we need to really reassure up of somebody who's from reporter state maybe somebody who's a little different. So they picked Andrew Johnson a former Jacksonian Democrat who have been loyal to the union who have been a governor of Tennessee when the state was basically breaking apart from the union and it was a way to unite the ticket on basically a pro-union ticket, of course. Ended up being a whole lot because very soon. Thereafter President Abraham Lincoln get shot Andrew Johnson becomes President United States and ended up in a battle with the wing of the Republican Party in the kiosks ensued there so. He went from being nothing to being everything is John Adams said. Very much everything. Time of I think incredible consequence and the history of this country which many of these vice presidents have become I. think it's really incredible. I think even the idea, the concept vice-presidency. Taking that position, the president is something that we kind of take for granted I. Mean there wasn't even a clear idea of how this process would work from the very first vice-president to take the job John Tyler. He just kind of took the job after William. Henry. Harrison died about a month into office. Nobody really knew what was going to happen I mean they weren't sure well have to have another. Election is that how does this GonNa work and he basically just took the job responsibility of being commander in chief? He took the job now of course of alienating himself from the rest of the party actually gotten. So booted out of the WHIG party for for a lot of different ideological reasons but I think he's been the concept that the vice president will simply step in when something happens the president. That wasn't exactly clear cut I think it was actually to a certain extent oppressing set by John Tyler which ended up being sealed in history. And then of course, you get the problems. What happens to the vice president takes over he doesn't have. You know how do you deal with that process and we've had to learn these things throughout our history but the vice presidency has has definitely at times been negligible to say the least were I mean I think most Americans vice versa history they couldn't pick them out of a lineup I. think There's this. Great quote from Actually Winter, Wilson's vice president. Marshall who said there were two was washed out to sea one became vice-president both were never heard from again which I think is someone of using given that Wilson, himself had a basically a health crisis at the end of his presidency and I mean it was basically on death's doorstep. Couldn't have been everything in that scenario but the history. The vice presidency is one that I think has gone back and forth he had consequential ones. We've had negligible one suv kind of disappeared from the pages of our history but nevertheless, the choice is often very consequential especially, if something were to happen to the president. So, as you said, a vice president could end up being president and having a huge impact on the country in the world you think of people like. Lyndon Johnson and Harry Truman Richard Nixon. How often do you think do presidential nominees really consider Oh, I really need to choose somebody that's ready for the job and you think of throughout history vice presidents are often chosen for political reasons. How often do you think that factors in the in those decisions when you look through history? Are there clear cases of where that was a factor or was actually ignored and I asked that question because it can be unsettling sometimes to think that vice president is chosen of course, the nominee will say, oh, I chose the person because he can do the job he or she but then in reality it might have just been political considerations in first place. I, think more often than not it has been political consideration. Now, the very competency factor may be that political decision. It may be that a president has specific concerns I mean maybe you have an older president maybe you have you know there there are there considerations that are can be both suffice. It comes to the competency of the person to actually take hold in the office and the political. You know, how are we going to convince the American people that this person should be commander in chief but how can we trust next line is going to be able to fulfill the responsibilities of office I think we've often seen that a lot of choices have been simply to secure party's domination to secure that one candidate or another, and sometimes it has led to somewhat disastrous results. I. Would I'd mentioned earlier John Tyler John Tyler was putting on a League ticket along with William Henry Harrison at time were wigs. It was really sort of a newly four-party in opposition to Andrew Jackson. Rose to prominence won the eighteen forty very dramatic. Finally thought that they had their chance. This is going to push through the American system, which was kind of national system of roads and terrorist things like this live Henry Harrison, the Bam that ticket dies almost immediately the man who takes his place is not a conventional wig. Here's a guy who's essentially of the John C.. Calhoun notification, Anti. Andrew Jackson. But not exactly in line with the other kind of national wake policy. So he ends up battling with his own party. For years get some. So booted out of the Party and causes immense chaos. For the wigs for the system and of course, you know ends up with. The Democrats taking back control in the next selection, I, it was a complete disaster for the party and for whatever reason seem to have particular challenge with this I. Think There's an old saying you know you know save us from League Vice Presidents I mean you know it was seemed to be wigs just had really terrible luck where you had multiple presidents who died in office William Henry Harrison Zachary Taylor. Who immediately had their successor take over and didn't? Right, they weren't as big as they hoped, right? Right. And I think that has been ECHINACEA even the obviously the Andrew Johnson comparison to the man who was chosen because unifies the country because he's a unionist. But what his policies regarding civil rights for policies on this that you know once he becomes president, he's the guy in charge the idea that he simply going to be a creature of the party has typically not been the case typically when presidents. charge I'm in control this thing and it's it's going to be my way or the highway. I think that's the case, and that's that's create a lot of tension for political parties. So basically, the that party would have been better served to have thought about that in the first place before they just ran with kind of the political considerations. Absolutely, I mean, again, these are these are tricky things because a lot of the time if it doesn't matter at all, it's simply you're trying to secure one wing of the party you're trying to gather political sport, the the election itself seems to be much more important, and maybe you're doing it also to essentially you know by parts to the Party Person Party are not. Happy especially when you talk about nineteenth century American elections, much more according to have the parties political backing little less. So I think in the twenty first century you don't have to necessarily court party elites to secure nominate. But the nineteenth century I think it was particularly important to be able to simply secure people's support? Behind closed doors secure that support at the convention so it may seem bad and it. It certainly turned out poorly in the end, but you can see what the rationale was for choosing these vice presidential candidates made a lot of sense until something happened to the president. So there there's an analogy and a quote that sums up the vice presidency that aisles thought was re revealing. The first is the analogy that the vice president is like the boosters on the space shuttle that the boosters are necessary to get the space shuttle into space just like a vice president is necessary to get a president elected but then once. The shuttle's gets gets the space they dispose of the boosters and the boosters are useless when it's actually in space not they're not even part of the shuttle anymore. And that being kind of a measurement of the futility of the vice presidency and for Vice President Lyndon Johnson, I was miserable, right they go from being one of the most powerful men in the country to just kind of an afterthought and the other great quote was remember about the vice presidency is from John Nance Garner FDR's vice president where he says and I'm using the sanitary version of this the censored version, which he said the vice presidency isn't worth a bucket of warm spit and I always thought that that was it kind of goes with the Thomas Marshall. To the boy that went to see in the the became vice-president Kinda describes how difficult that job is. Yeah. It really is of course you know there's there's now another element to this where modern vice presidents certainly last part of the twentieth century it's now somewhat seen as a stepping stone to the presidency. Still I think that's that is a more modern thing it in the nineteenth century I think it tended to be secretaries of state ten is be seen as like the next guy in line at this presidency is actually going to be successful. This is going to be the president's so called third term in office I think we're definitely seeing that mentality this idea that okay. He's the first guy on the bench this all works out. We've got a chance. He's the next guy he's GonNa be the. Guy At a party selects and I think that that has been sort of true I. Think we've seen a successful two-term president. The vice-president is sort of seen as the next person. I. Don't think that was true. Earlier history back a lot of ice presents they came and went they disappeared they weren't seen as active participants, the White House at all. you know they performed their basic duties in the Senate, the Secretary of state who was very active especially when it comes to a very important job that seeing by most is the job of the president which is dealing with foreign policy and a lot of those issues that are the most critical for the president. The Secretary of state was seen as. The next guy in lot That's now I mean. Now the vice presidency is kind of like a bench thought the he's the first guy up the bench to go into the game if there's actually victory or success for the presidency. and. So I think that's been a big part of modern politics and some of the transition for how he vice-presidents all. Right. So one thing I've always observed just to look at this more broadly is the as Americans. We have this very long process of electing our president and part of that is I mean, we've we had the system, the founders gave us and it's it's a pretty short section of the constitution electoral. College. And it has different rules about how that plays off and on top of that system you have what we've created. We've had political parties and those parties create primaries conventions we've added. The. Political debates between the presidential vice presidential candidates. And it's very interesting to describe this system to someone that's not from the United States and describing the electoral college to someone that's not from the United States or describing the whole primary process and all of these things. Now, sometimes people complain about the system they say, you know some people say that the electoral college is outdated some people aren't happy by the primaries or anything like that when you look at that system and how it evolved from what the founders envisioned to what we have today. Do. You think that it's deep. Do you think that that system is something that ensures the best system that we could have in your opinion? Is this the best system that here's the most powerful person in the world choosing someone to be the most powerful person in the world? Is this the ideal system? Is there a better system? How does this compare to what the founders had originally thought of what? What's your take on that? I honestly think it's it's about as good a system as one kick create for the United States in particular I think our unique system our electoral process was developed during the constitutional convention. has evolved since the time of its creation there's no question about that is not the same one that existed eighty nine, but it has served the American republic that has grown enormously since its beginning. Remarkably, well, I think it's something that's underrated. American history just how stable are processed bit I mean this was something that has undone. Civilizations, republics throughout time i. mean this is something that frankly the Roman Republican. Than Empire never really got right I mean not that is something that really. Them because they could never figure out even when they transition to an imperial system, how do you deal with that lions How do you choose the guy who comes next now medieval Europe often came up with the idea of well, we'll just have you know that the kingdom go from the father to the song at that trump is to certain extent innovation on a previous system where emperor dies and well takes his place to the strongest. Is it to the next in line? So these things have really bedevil I think even free free country so-called free countries through and the American founding fathers, I. Worry. About how we're going to create a process that is regular that a stable that were American people always feel like they could appeal to ballots instead of bullets that you won't have a civil war anytime. There's there is a transition of power I. Think it's been rather remarkable going back to the eighteen hundred election, which I think is one of the most important our history in which I mean for the first time in our history. Really. I think pretty much all of human history you had one political party is is kind of primitive is the parties were at the time federalist Republicans it'd be not like a modern party led really one faction replace another without devolve into violence and civil war I it's a remarkable thing. Did it went? Simply, balanced. You know one the day rather than just it immediately going to civil war as it has for countless other civilizations of people through history. That's why Thomas Jefferson's this inaugural address. When he says, we're all Republicans are all federalists had a Lotta meeting didn't mean that he was gonna you know support federalist policies or that he he liked federalists do much pretty much tried to end their existence. But what he was saying is that ultimately we're all Americans we believe in the system was created by the by our generation to serve this Republican for those who are against that system. Well, they're only a few view. Marginal, free free speech and free debate will show the folly of your way and that's that's created. A kind of remarkable system again has changed quite dramatically since those days but has evolved within that system. was originally put in place with some with some tweaks here and there obviously being a art of that but has has survived an incredible amount of turmoil growth. You name it I think the American political system is one of the geniuses to this country when the real miracles of our success rate. When you think about throughout history, oftentimes, succession crisis would lead to civil war and if not the civil war. There would be some sort of power grab in one guy would either be sidelined or killed, and so when you think about the country creating a system in a world where stuff like that still happen it's remarkable this stability. One thing is that. There have been a lot of changes you said that the system has evolved and one of those changes I think that the founding fathers had was that they viewed the electoral college is kind of a it would basically be a this elite class of citizens that would be chosen by the people but they themselves would be delegated to make the selection of president they would make an independent choice. and. We've we've moved away from that. We've become a more democratic representative system. So how well do you think that the current system balances the founders intentions with the system we have today and some of that goes into the college right. The electoral college has changed slightly because now these members in the Electoral College vote for whoever they're summertimes are bound by law. These independent people they're, they're like slots now. But. How much of that is still present? How much of the Founding Fathers Vision is still present in spite of these evolutions in the system? I think some of that transition happened almost immediately after the creation it's country I mean, I think some of the transition I mean even the idea that you just regular person's going to be voting for the electors. Has Been in place. For a long time it into certainly set it's made the kind of indirect nece a bit moot I mean I think that was some of the some of the criticisms of Electoral College. It's interesting. This areas brought up in debates and the modernists. Such person criticized the Electoral College in Eighteen, twenty, three Air Jackson among them, they rarely criticized the federal nature. They didn't criticize the fact that the electors represented the states in their capacity. The criticism is usually they didn't like the indirect nature. They didn't like the fact that somebody else was voting for you. That was particularly to. Especially after the eighteen twenty four election that got thrown to the House of Representatives. Re. Basically had the house choose the president will as it had nothing to do with the actual popular at all this country and which set a lot of chaos in south a lot of Jackson's criticisms. Electoral College. which again, it was focused mostly on the indirect nature. The federal nature I think which asserted extent is kind of the primary part of the electoral college is and has been I think more or less stayed intact I mean I think while the system is much more democratic than it was initially conceived electors were chosen by by the states I mean the state legislatures were choosing electric's that that system change very quickly in the early days of the republic backed by the eighteen forties. Single state that still had that old system attack But I think the federal nature of it is still there I mean, the states do act conduct their elections in their individual capacities. You still have it weighted toward the states, which creates a lot of anger too because it's not exactly where people think of they think of all the our whole system is based necessarily on one man one vote odd. But that's not necessarily the case We still have a system that's that's weighted toward a federal one where the small states get a slight advantage though I think it's a little bit overblown most for elections. If you win most the big stage, you're gonNA, win the election no matter what. I think Electoral College has done a very good job of adapting to the growth of this country and I. Think it served us very well having these separate elections being conducted in state after state in such, a large diverse country has been incredibly important. I think even when you when you look at the twenty, two, two, thousand election which you had a recount in Florida which you had a lot of chaos I can only imagine what that would be if we simply had won national election and you had to do a recount of every vote in this country. If. We make counting this fest Florida that nationwide three, hundred, million votes right or whatever? One? Hundred fifty, million votes. Yeah and in fact, I think one of the. Great things about the Electoral College that you know I think to a certain extent. It does prevent some of these. Electoral irregularities becoming a national crisis. I mean, there's been significant portions of our history where there have been states were the vote has been questioned. Revolt has been suppressed I've been you had that in the eighteen, seventy, six election was a complete mess. There was fraud taking place all over the country at the very least those electors were held to the states that they came from the state kind of went one way. Even if entire vote of one side surpressed, it didn't ultimately change the election I mean what's incredible? Is Abraham Lincoln when he won the election with about thirty. Seven, thirty, eight of the vote. There are a lot of southern states were Abraham Lincoln. You couldn't even vote for Abraham. He was not on the ticket states were literally taking off the ticket. And that kind of stuff happens a lot and that's been a part of our history, the electoral calls to a certain. Extent mitigates that because the number of electors you get the number of lectures get you're not simply counting up the total number votes. So the individual state governments taking steps to disenfranchise people has has. Been Mitigated by as far as our national elections go and in the presence, the obviously be the sample. So you mentioned during the Jackson elections, the implicit criticism or the criticism was that it was done indirectly, it wasn't done democratically is that an implicit criticism of the founders for making a system that was to elite and not democratic enough or do you have to look at it for a contexts perspective? How do you and? If you're someone that wants to. Continue what the founders created how do you reconcile that evolution to a more democratic system? Well I think. One of the big worries that they had was that there will be simply abuse of the electors that they would simply because a lot of other systems there have been briberies there had been other ways to try to manipulate elections. They thought the Electoral College of esteemed individuals essentially, indirectly selective I would be more capable sustain those kind of attacks on the political system itself. I think the Electra never necessarily meant to be like. A college that would gather together and discuss who they're going to select as president they were meant to be creatures of the states. Now, a mind of their own I mean if something happens between the election time, any lack actual bring the president into office collectors are supposed to have judgment in that matter. I mean we we haven't really seen this tested in American history. But there certainly could be a crisis in which let's say the president dies after he's elected, you know what's GonNa Happen You know leaving that to the electors is potentially a a way to solve that rather than just going to the chaos another election you know having the electors decide I think that there are still stopgaps exist there with retaining the elector system though I would say certainly, their role has been more marginal through time. Most of them tend to be party people they tend to be people that are simply loyal to the ticket. No matter what. As you said, a lot of states even have rules regarding you can't simply switch your vote if you want to. So you know I think that's part of the natural evolution process of the electoral college that it didn't exactly specifically turn out just the way the founders saw it doesn't mean that it came very close. It wasn't quite successful and I think it's actually proven that you know it's test over time we've only had one. One serious presidential crisis maybe to in our s through one of course, the secession of southern states in the eighteen sixty election. Was the most dramatic case you could probably say eight seventy six was another test of that system as well but I think ultimately over time. That system has done a remarkable job of balancing the interests of the country of selecting the next commander in chief of making sure that Americans believe in that process I. Think it's done if not a, it certainly has done a perfect job but I think has done a very good one one that I think it would be mistake simply overturn that system overnight. So if a candidate wins estate they essentially when all of the electoral votes for that state, how did we get that system? How do we get that process and I think I? I've heard people criticize the college as something that seems a bit arbitrary. I've heard people criticize if they live in a state, that is is blue and their. Democrat and they're Republican their votes don't count vice versa it's you know the state's Republican. But they vote Democrat. How did we get this winner take all system for the states? The way for states to kind of maximize their power in elections I think that's been a big part of this. Why is winner take all and to serve that has been the criticism states maybe should go to a more system a few states have done so. Nebraska main have done. So and they've split often split their electoral college votes and you can even say, maybe that's actually a better system. The only thing is. Our allows the stakes to make their own judgment as far as how they're going to create the electoral system they maximize their own power within that system by having a be simply winner-take-all it really maximizes the desire of a president to win that state makes it is. Yeah it's the massive price it to a certain extent. It reinforces of the many reasons why we have a two party system in this country. It's a natural process of our system. You know it's not like people say, Oh, you know it's like corruption that we have a two party system. It's a natural part of our system was designed developed wasn't necessarily seen. Immediately by the founding generation or universally support but I think very quickly people came to realize that a party system even a two party system had a lot of advantages within that says it's worked very well yes. There are a lot of countries throughout the world that have a more early Terry system where they have many parties. Were they have kind of sometimes many have fringe parties that actually gain a lot of seats our system tends to kind of smooth over a lot of those fringe elements that exist in every system because if you're one party or another, you have to appeal to a large base of people that you can't just have and narrow slice the population hoped to win. You have to find a way to gather together a lot of different Americans of different interests A. Lot of backgrounds and that's I. That's a strength of our system. It's not a weakness. I think it's mitigated some of the extreme parts of any party I and allowed us to create governing dot coalitions simply a governing party that has its chance. It doesn't work out there voted out of office I think that's very well, and I think when you think about what the founders, the system they devised whether it's the electoral college or any other part of the government. There was an element of okay. We're going to create the system. We're going to do it the best that we can, but we also know that experience will help us know what's the best way to actually run the system, and so when it it comes to the Electoral College, they put in these safeguards they wanted assist in that create a national. Nationally supported president, but they also knew that experience which show its flaws and they could adjust accordingly. So. Many of them might have been open to kind of the greater democratization of the system that that happened because that was what the people want it. So it really kind of depends. It's it's kind of balancing their intent but also with what with the experience shows is the best way to do it. Yeah I mean some were much more the democratic side I mean Gainsville Pennsylvania was very strong on the sort of democratic side. Can you know in our elections but I look I think there is even a I mean there's a process whereby through experience we have to change that system we can't I mean there was done but We have done it including our electoral process very quickly especially after that eighteen hundred election where you had the confusion as far as you know. The presidency and vice versa, he were selected on the first two vote-getters I. Mean if you have essentially a party system. You had the problem where you have to tie and then who becomes president and that was that created a lot of chaos had. Thomas Jefferson Aaron. Burr. These guys are supposedly wrote on the same ticket and then one guy decides well, you know what? I think actually I want to be president. Berg decided which created the chaos of that election. They immediately changed that so that afterwards then you had you vote essentially for the vice president and Fresno on the same ticket rather than that system before which you know created the chaos. Undoubtedly when created farmer cast on the line especially as the party system developed, you know having a president vice president, two different parties I think other people kind of suggested. Well, you know why don't we go back to that but I have to say in the long run on, it creates a lot more tension between the office of the presidency and the vice-presidency. Especially nowadays when the president is expected to kind of. Lead the charges for policy policy-making. This country can only imagine if the thoughts well the president's policies could entirely flip based on you know. Health crisis or any other thing I think that would create a lot more Kastner system than the one that we've developed since that amendment was passed. So yeah, absolutely there there've been positive changes since the creation I don't think founders thought that their system was perfect I think almost all them were unhappy about one thing or another when they created the constitution big ultimately, it does have a lot of methods whereby can change either through the actual process of you know passing a constitutional amendment or even to the evolution because there is a lot of leeway as far as how states and how our country actually conducts elections. Right, and one thing you notice. Comparing our system to their systems of other countries as ours is just so much longer, and it's so much more involving and we have so many debates in the primary process, and then we have three debates in the presidential general election. And I think part of it is you have this system we have Electoral College at Sarah that that intent is to create a National League supported candidate who has support from different parts of the country but also you have a system that is just so exhausting that I remember Tony Blair wants said that anyone who wins the presidency cannot be stupid because they've gone through such. Exhausting process. So part of it is just the grueling nature of the job of trying to get the job. Hopefully will ensure that the person that gets it has really gone through the gauntlet. and. That in of itself is seen as a virtue, right? If someone is willing to go through the most miserable slog of a campaign, then they hopefully, they'll be prepared to be president. Yeah, it's really interesting. I would say this is actually Of the real stations between modernity add Sam Erica. Th Century presence today are expected to be on the campaign trail. I mean now it's years long process risen nineteenth century. Dow, was actually seen as sorted like you're out there saying vote for me that might be a disqualifying factor I mean even the idea of even sky thing I want to be president would be seen as oh, that's that's unseen Lacina. Now, of course elections themselves, you know the surrogates were. Very enthusiastic and they were the campaigns in the nineteenth century every bit as wildest dramatic. In fact, say Americans were probably even more engaged because you didn't have you know the mass you know you didn't have television. You didn't have sports culture that developed yet. I mean sports in politics once and people were rooting for their team and they were very focused. On the election, they were very excited and it got nasty. It got nasty. Very. Nasty. It was there are some brutal stuff fake news. Fake news was rapid. I mean and you could even hide things more in those days because after all what happened in one state wasn't necessarily work Nestle, you're gonNA, get word to another state. So you know there were there presidents who are running on a wildly different platform on state to state based on their surrogate that would appeal specifically to that state. I know that during the eighteen twenty, eight election, a lot of Jackson's surrogates trying to portray in South Carolina Jackson, who was of course committed to the principle of free trade it was very important because of course you. Know. It's a it's a region that produces a lot of experts cotton things like this. But in Pennsylvania, is services to know your Jackson here. This quote that we have for eighteen twenty four showing that he's a strong supporter of American industry and having some tariffs and that worked in those days because a lot of times there wasn't a national media to even keep tabs on it. People didn't really pay attention that a Lotta issues very local and in many people didn't even really know who much about who the presidential candidate even was never seen him before the little out him. So that has dramatically changed in maturity. I mean, we're you see. Ads All day long you see you have to bates. We have this that you know how the President Animal Ersan comes out. All these things have become enormously important in modern elections that may have even jock surprise the founding generation. I couldn't have imagined that kind of technological changes that have happened today to. Right. Now, when people look at the Electoral College, one of the things they criticize is. The fact that the swing states are the ones that get the most attention everyone else gets ignored shafted. Knowing that there's no perfect system. The implicit criticism of that is that every state should expect to have the same amount of attention knowing there's no perfect system. How do you address that particular criticism or is that a fair criticism? Yeah I think. So now obviously a president can't go to every person in America and make an individual pitch. That's you know it's amazing what they do given the limitations of the human body and time and all these kind of things it's actually rentable. I think it's actually very well in fact, I think the criticism. You know, hey, you know these you know some secure states ignored only the swing states get paid attention to I would say, well, what are those swing states? I mean, you know every generation, it seems there's a new set of swing states. And candidate who have ignored sticks that they thought were secure that ended up deeply the twenty sixteen election to me is one of the you know. One of the stories simply that there are a lot of states that were considered a Democrat had gone Democrat for Greg, Long Time that were solidly blue that suddenly went read because you had a party system sort of transformation, you WANNA political candidate. who kind of went outside the boundaries of what how the Democrats Republicans have been speaking of outside the ideas that have been at the primary focus of his party for a long time and dramatically changed on election outcome I. Mean I think you know the electoral map is something that is not nearly a static as people think it is nothing really is permanent in. American. Politics thinks change constantly and yes there are a lot of so-called state state safe states to get ignored or somewhat ignored for a long time that often ends up costing presidential candidates very dearly when they take those those for granted, they don't focus on the so-called say states Well I just got a tip the balance at a few places things change very quickly in this country and the news change very quickly. The issues of the day are constantly revolving. They're constantly different especially in the modern era. So the way I see it as our system has actually been incredibly dramatic. And evolving over time again, I think it's it's an important part of our system where presidential candidates will wear. Another are going to have to find a way to appeal to a broad base of Americans, what those broad based ideas going to be something different. Every four years I mean, it's different almost every year as population shift, the country grows changes but it's all totally work very well in selecting presidents and. And our parties our whole system is geared toward that. So yeah, could it could there are things that could be changed make probably I mean, I think that you know having more proportional system would probably be a more accurate gauge of where the American people aren't but to a certain extent that can't happen because they're ASSOC discretion left up the stakes, which is an important part of our system so I think it's an perfect system, but it's a very good one, I? Think it works for this country. Right. Now, one of the big events of elections are the debates. We have the presidential debates we have the vice presidential. Debate. Want one of those that happens every four years. How decisive our presidential debates should we have them? Are they good? What did they add? It's kind of part of the whole process and every time something like that happens there's this. There's these kind of regular events that happened for President Right? The State of the Union. Every year those debates and some people kind of look at these things and say you know it's just a big show. It's predictable. We already know everything about the candidate are they useful? Do they really give us a good gauge of the candidates? So what what do you think is that a good thing can they be improved? That the modern presidency has evolved I think they're becoming a kind of necessary part of the system and this is something that I mean the presidential debate wasn't even something until nineteen sixty I mean you didn't have president's standing. There are people think of the Lincoln Douglas Debates that that was that was a Senate election essentially I mean. Yeah I. Think a lot debates have become. There's a lot of flocks that's involved in debates. There's a lot of kind of nonsense to it but I think they become a really important part as as informing American voters in a culture that is very are directed toward the visual medium. Television the Internet are critically important to how we get our news and how we get information. As part of the modern system, it has become for essential I think it was remarkable that twenty sixteen, the first debate between Hillary Clinton and President Donald Trump the eighty, four, million viewers I mean you can't get that kind of your ship with almost anything that shows that a lot of people do care very much what happens in those debates and how they assess their president's whether it's assistant rhetorically assess their appearance. You could say it has made over presidential elections much lower than they were in the nineteenth century where people barely even knew with their presidential candidate looked like in many cases. But you know that this fault that trend of American society as well. There's just reality that people WANNA be able to size up the president in person we can no longer literally walk up to the White House at knock on the door s could often in the nineteenth century which crazy thing to think about and assess through the guy was but it is important part of the American presidential process, and while it hasn't always proven to be the decisive factor there have been there have been such elections where that confrontation that one on one debate between two candidates. Has Been. Very. Important has been essential in his has allowed certain candidates. To thrive relate otherwise lynn half You know even down to the the primary debates I, mean, I think very dramatically, you know when Ronald Reagan won nineteen eighty the New Hampshire primary debate, which you know turned into a total chaotic session where the technical issues and Reagan grabs a mic microphone says, you know they tried to cut him off says I'm paying for that microphone Mr Green. Showed Americans that oh? This is a guy who takes charge. You know this guy who shows leadership in a time of crisis while he looks like the better fit? Than George. H W Bush. So you know I think some of the moments that have happened these debates have proven decisive were people are not just examining the policy preferences president but who that person is. Somebody who they expect to have an enormous amount of responsibility. So it's a monarch contrivance but I think ultimately, it's important. One what I'd like to see I mean given I think like many Americans I would like to see some changes to the actual debate process but. Maybe something more in the style of the Lincoln. Douglas Style debates I think you have a more free form debate between two people rather than the moderators who asked oftentimes good questions, but I think sometimes very biased ones. I think it'd be I think it'd be very exciting to see. Two presidential candidates square off against each other. No moderators just two people talking in discussing the issues of the day I. think that'd be great to see in two thousand twenty and beyond I would really like to see if there is one change, I would really like to see that. Well, one thing I remember in college when my professor showed us a video of the first time. I. Ever saw Prime Ministers Prime Minister's questions in in the UK and that kind of has a more free flowing and at times pretty rowdy and. Sometimes irreverent tone where people are really attacking the prime minister and the leader of the opposition and I it's something sometimes people say, Oh, that'd be great to see in the United States where things are a lot more controlled and candidates are debating the the the length of the table and all these little details that will make their candidate look better. And I, it just seems a little bit more manufactured and that that's one criticism. Sometimes people want something a little bit more genuine. And I think even in the show, the West Wing, very popular show when they have a presidential debate. Between the candidates to succeed. Martin's character, and they kind of have that you know forget all the rules. Let's just have a free flowing conversation. So I think there's always been kind of that desire to do that. But at the same time both candidates have a lot more incentive to hold to those rules and try to control the system and control what everything looks like. Yeah I think think no doubt about that. I mean I think there are ways stood up a debate format where you do have kind of some set rules going into it. So it's not literally just. Two guys have at it. But I, I would like to see a system where you don't have the middleman. So to speak of the moderate, just allow to people, you know obviously people we expect to know policy you know people all these different things. Just say what they're gonNA say and we can assess that I mean obviously Lincoln Douglas able to do it in a grand fashion may we can't expect so much a twenty twenty but I think the American people would really like to see that it would undercut any idea that. The format was biased or that one candidate was favored the other would simply have to people they enter the arena you know let the American. People decide I think that'd be very exciting to see. An. You know it'd be interesting to see. You know the people who would actually choose to do that. My opinion. If you're running for president, you should be able to stand in that arena for an hour two hours plus and be able to just you know discuss the issues of the day I. think that's an incredibly important thing. Sure. I don't know this might be an apocryphal story but I've heard a story that. President Kennedy and Senator Goldwater who they were friends going back to their years in the Senate. Prior to the nineteen, sixty, four election had talked about having kind of a Lincoln Douglas Series of debates were both men would incumbent President Kennedy and Senator Goldwater assuming goldwater would win the nomination sixty four which he ended up doing. But parts of that. They talked about flying together around the country and just debating stopping by at different cities and localities and just start debating the issues and I I don't know if it's true. It makes a great story. If if that was what they plan to do, that would have been pretty cool and creative it would've been more interesting I think then kind of your standard debate. You know unfortunately we'll never know if they were going to do that and how it would have played out. Different ideas of how to make the system or interesting or or whatever. I. Think it would be I think it would have been set a precedent. Had they actually gone through with that and it's such a I think it's a great idea to me at at least. It will be, it'd be great to see that I mean I go S. -essarily, think that we're GonNa do that anytime soon but hey, you know things change all the time especially given you know how communication changes in perpetually evolving process you know we've gone through basically people not even knowing what the president looked like except for you know maybe they'd see a penny or something like to you know all the transition of radio and going through that transition to suddenly television. Now, the Internet in you know who knows who knows what's going to come next when it comes to these things my guess is. Campaigns in parties will, of course, be completely on the up and will will find ways to secure badges through those new mediums that are created. Over time, and that's look that's part of part of what we are Americans we innovate and we innovate when it comes to politics elections. Like we do with everything else so I'm I'm sure they'll be many changes even the next few years I think we're GONNA see a lot of different changes in the American political. System. Right, and I guess just wrapping up one thing and you probably have seen this as well and studying history. One thing we could say and whether it's recent history relatively recent or going back to the founding of the country is that elections have always been crazy. There's always been a lot of angst. There's always been a great divisions. Whole parts of the country have left over the result of an election it happened once and so I, think. As we head into the presidential election, this November, we can know that we can take heart that our country has survived so many different scenarios so many divisive years and ultimately we've come we've move forward from those years and obviously we hope the same thing will happen regardless of the result this year. Yeah I mean remarkable resiliency from the election process of the President I. Mean I do I mean I know it's kind of taken for granted? In the modern world, but it really is something remarkable. You know set in motion by the founding generation and I'm not even sure if they knew it was gonna pay off in such a big way and even when you know we had the most dramatic. Departure from that, which is the eighteen sixty election, which you know some of the heaviest days in the history of our country. Then Office of the presidency proved to be instrumental in carrying union victory in saving the constitution in the country itself, the office, the presidency I think was really tested by that war and showed you know how invaluable? How invaluable it is to the future of the Republic especially in times of of absolute crisis You you know, yes there have been a lot of transitions and changes that I think a lot of people are upset about have made our our system worst. It really has stood the test of time greater than most republics through history, which had often a very short shelf life We should be very thankful You know I mean how many other countries throughout the world I always think of you know our porcelain, a neighbor of of Haiti after the creation of that country, how many coups have happened in their history and how many you know I mean a coup was like almost like an election there for large parts of their history and how much chaos and misery that creates for any people is immense Americans haven't had to suffer through that. We've had very law based system and had a very stable system so even. Though you know this year is going to be the greatest. This elections are always crazy and. American figured out at the end of the day You know we really do have a genius for politics even though we don't think we do often we think sometimes our system is just the worst world is total mass but I think we do it better than anybody and I think that's something we should all be. Very much inspired by and very thankful for. Jared step in we appreciate you coming on to our show a as I. said earlier your podcast, you're the CO host of the right side of history. So be sure to check out that podcast check out his book, the war on history. Thank you very much for coming. Thank you so much appreciated. This American President is produced by myself limb and Michael Neale. You like what you've been hearing. You can help us by leaving a five star review on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to our show. We are proud partner of Evergreen podcast. These visit Evergreen podcasts dot com for more shows you might enjoy. I'm Richard Lim. We're back next time with more this American. President.

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616 Zagreb; Natchez; Leave Only Footprints

Travel with Rick Steves

51:35 min | 3 weeks ago

616 Zagreb; Natchez; Leave Only Footprints

"When you're ready to explore the capitals of the old world again I think it's worth adding someplace a bit off the beaten path to your itinerary like Zagreb in Croatia walked through the upper town in the evening when the original two hundred and thirty nine guests lights are lighted. You'd brings you right back into the eighteen hundreds visit one of Mississippi's most distinctive communities where there's more than Antebellum, Mansions and garden parties beneath the surface the motor spent the mall. Next to start to seem like kind of microcosm of America when it comes to the legacy of slavery and race and for a little nature therapy, you know there are more national parks than there are states across the USA. They are literally our common ground in that they are owned a four by all of us from the old world to the New South and picking your favorite national parks. Let's see what we can discover today on travel with Rick Speak. Hey, I'm rick. Steves in my latest book for the love of Europe I, share highlights of a lifetime of exploring Europe my favorite experiences, sites and encounters in one hundred essays order your copy today at Rick. STEVES DOT COM. We'll find out what writer Richard Grant learned about the people of Nazis, concluding a few of its unforgettable characters and why the town is often called Mississippi's quirkiest community. And TV reporter Conor Knighton tells us what it was like to explore every national park in the. US. From Acadia Tahsin in one year that's in just a bit today's travel with Rick. Steves. Let's start with a look at a European capital that's often overlooked by the beach crowd who enjoy Croatia's crystal clear coastline. But miss out on the scene in its capital city. It has a distinctively modern take on old world charm and it's just a few hours inland. To tell us about saga we're joined now by local guide Darya goateed. She's joined by Ben Curtis who writes about the Balkan regions elaborate history and thinks that Croatia's best period may be now Darya in Ben Welcome my pleasure. Same. Thank you for having. US Doria. You're from Zagreb your guide in Zagreb, a lot of Americans no Dubrovnik. Venice and a lot of Americans know the Anna Zagreb is right there in the middle. What should we know about Zagreb? Nanna. Saga is I would say the mix of. All these big capitals around and all these much better known cities around from historical perspective It was influenced by different cities and countries. So we have a little bit of all of that. What's an example? How is it a little bit of? How is it a little bit of Italy says it a little bit of the Slavic World So? obas part of the hops Burke monarchy later austro-hungary for few hundred. Years. And then architecture in town is very much what we would call out through nor Central European. So the mixture of Hungarian hungarian-austrian. We don't have much Dubrovnik textures that. Is Zog. Is completely different about the cuisine that scene is also very influenced by Austria but not only that we do eat struggles and. A lot of meat and potatoes and then on the other hand we also eat. A lot of Pasta beat some. We are very sensitive on coughing, and then we also have the Turkish influence because arguable also for few centuries, just about forty, five, fifty miles Sir north from the Ottoman Empire boarder okay. It's a crossroads release across through the s the Ben Curtis here in American who has a fascination and a deep interest in this part of Europe how would you say Zagreb is unique Zagreb is unique for being this gem of a central European capital. So everybody can measure saying they know Budapest, Vienna, they know Prague, but here's this. Gym of a historical city that hardly any American visits right and even though Zagreb stars rising on the Tourism Front these days but you can go there and it's not gonna be jammed with busloads of tourists from all over the place you're not gonNA hear a lot of other North American accents and you're going to be able to experience the city where the fabric of locals you're going to be sitting in a cafe with mostly other people from Zagreb, and that's great and it's hard to find that in Dubrovnik are in Vienna these days a year. Exactly. So if you had two nights in in one Danes, is there enough to keep you busy. Yeah. For sure I think, what would you do if you're gonNA show me around for a day the it's a great kind of one day stop if you're coming in and out for some of the coast. So Zagreb surprisingly has some of I think are the best museums of its kind in Europe now they're quirky right? You don't. Go desire grab for the Louvre or something like that. But you go to Zagreb for these unusual small museums like the Museum of naive art, which is great sort of not formally trained perhaps painters but really characteristic art with peasant themes. The famous one which is kind of made headlines around the world is a museum of broken relationships which is filled with these stories of couples who have broken up the objects that they have Meant something to them and they've given it this museum and so it's just a really interesting kind of poignant sometimes hilarious trip through people's relationships. So when we think of this naive art, I love this idea because you go to most art galleries in Europe Bennett, the opposite of naive arted this refined fully embraced high-society art but naive art is by definition just unschooled hasn't Sir Working People that just had a passion for painting. Exactly but are often very, very talented even if they didn't train at the academy or something like that but they're expressing the lives and cultures and artistic visions of people from the rural areas and it's genius really an undiscovered genius that happen to come out of the farm community or something absolutely. I love that museum by the way that that's really one of the unique things in Europe and it is in the capital of Croatia Zagreb. Are Guides to Zagreb Croatia Powell Prefix Steve's our Balkan history expert Ben Curtis and hometown tour guide. Dr, you go teach. You when we're thinking of Zagreb, we've got a mix of traditional and modern. If you WANNA find the modern, you can connect with young people. It's a university town, where would you go and what would you do to be able to make friends with the Croatian in the capital city of Zagreb? To Saddam Inglewood local seal definitely have to go to cafes, sit down meter friends, relatives, and Saddam walk through the streets of the central part of town and just see and be seen. That's the best place than Also, if you would like to see a little bit of modern culture, there are many street festivals quite a few. What's a good example of a festival that you would enjoy? We have an street art festival that's called. Suggest is the best which means three is the best. It's every year in June end of May and beginning of June. It's different street artists from all over the world come musicians, clones, opioids. Street performers yes. That's great. One of those in Bern, Switzerland and it was one of the best festivals I've ever stumbled into. So you can have that you can look online and find out when xactly what what is it face is the best zest is the best now the old and the traditional town of Zagreb is quite characteristic. It's been fixed up it has traditional guests, lights walk us through the old part of town. What are we going to see an experience? Well, the all part of the city was formed in two little hills and those are capital where in the late eighteen hundreds. A small town bishop's center was formed and it was the first settlement nowadays the city of Zagreb till today, the architecture is saved and sort of soda dumb structure of that part of town is safe to look like a tiny little town. And Architecture today is mostly bit private houses from seventeen to nineteen century. So this was the first. Settlement Damian the thirteenth century and believe it or not Mongolians arrived Zargreb. And after Mongolian invasion, another small town was created graduates that was town of merchants and craftsmen and. Called the Free Royal Town with special privileges from the king himself and they than well up to town that also leader special from the eighteenth century owned became the political center of whole Croatia the Croatian nation. Croatia's capital cities Zagreb are focused right now on travel with Rick Steves our guests, our local tour guide Dr. you go teach who specializes in English and German language tours of her hometown. She's joined by Balkan history expert Ben Curtis books include a travelers history of Croatia. We. have an email about Zagreb from Henry in Silver Spring Maryland. And Henry writes why aren't more people aware of this gem we were stationed in Croatia for two years to bargain surprised more people don't visit this wonderful part of Europe from Slovenia. Through Albanian so I think Henry is talking about Croatia in general and let's talk about that just for a few minutes because Zagreb is it's the urban reality. Of Croatia more than a resort. You might find on the domain coast from Zagreb Ben You could branch out and make a number of side trips or visit places. What else would you put on a on an itinerary to Croatia assuming you started in Zagreb? Right? Well. Sort of leaving aside the coast right because I think the coast is really well covered. It's easy to get from Zagreb to the coast you catch a flight or you catch a bus or there's even a train and it's that's logistically very easy but there's other things to see in inland Croatia everybody always heads for the water but within easy reach Zargreb. There's a beautiful baroque town called Vada Dean, which was once the capital. Dean whereas Denia, there's even smaller little towns very close to Croatia called some aboard, which is you know cute and kitschy an easy trip, and then you're also just a hop skip and a jump from say Lubiana in Slovenia or on a train to Budapest. So it's actually very well connected because Zagreb really is a major well, it's a major hub of transportation we we. have to remember there's more to the world than tourism and people are doing their business and so on. In the three big capitals, their Budapest Lubiana, and Zagreb. The capitals of Hungary Slovenia and Croatia side-by-side lots of trade and traveled connecting and easy connections that way, and of course, right up to the NFL YEP this traveled Steve's we've been talking about geography capital of Croatia. Guides have been. Ben Curtis and yet cottage, and I'd like to just finish off with with one moment that you think our listeners would enjoy when they are in Zagreb special moment. If you're with the family. Then definitely shot of the Zagreb Ken every day at twelve o'clock. That's also something from the old days at still existing as tradition if you like to walk then definitely to walk through the upper town in the evening when the original two, hundred, thirty, nine guests, lights are lighted and it brings you right back into the survey eighteen hundreds. And hundreds in Zog up and Ben. So I would say that one of the things again that makes them unique is fantastic example of nineteenth century town planning and as this absolutely wonderful call the Green Horseshoe, which is just this kind of connected series of parks often with a museum gallery at the center, even a theater at the center and stroll that string of parks find somewhere nice to have a coffee people watch and you've got You know the ambiance of Zagreb right at your fingertips and it sounds like enjoying a nice cup of coffee in a park watching the people go by is as Croatian or Zograbian as anywhere else in Europe exactly. Right. Then Curtis Geigo tips. It's nice to learn about a country that we don't know about when it's nice to learn about a capital city that deserves a little more. Attention than a lot of times etiquettes. If you could just tell us one phrase in Croatian. That we should know when we travel there, what should it be? Maybe thank you and what is that neither be Allah. I usually teach people to do is arguably and we say follow F. A. L. A. Follow follow, and how can you say in France they born vars have a good trip. We usually say Davi Janea snow between. Till next time till next time wgn Tevi Jana Darya Ben. Thanks. Thanks a lot. More. By the way word is that Zagreb's museum of naive art will be closed for renovations for the next few years in the meantime highlights from its exhibits are on display at a gallery, just a block away. Next week get to note matches in Mississippi and explore the variety. In America's national parks. It's travel with. Rick Steves. Even though he was raised in busy west London author Richard Grant was finding life in Manhattan to be too confining. At a friend's House party in the Mississippi Delta he decided on a whim to by an old farmhouse nearby and start a new chapter in his life. He writes about that in his two thousand sixteen book dispatches from Pluto Richard recently spent the better part of a year downriver getting acquainted with us sometimes eccentric cast of characters in historic and tourist friendly matches he found it's where the new South is having to confront did confederate past today matches is the kind of town where it said even the liberals are well art. Richard introduces us to the stories that like deep in the soil of Netease in this latest book is called the deepest south of all true stories from niches. This is. Richard It's good to talk with you again. Hey, rick good to be back on the show. So you're an Englishman who lived in New York City and then you settled in rural Mississippi that's that's an amazing mix Britain New York and the Mississippi Delta before we get deeper into niches, give us a quick comparison of these three worlds that you've lived through and and what do you enjoy most and what you enjoy least about each of these I've always kind of been an outside I was actually born in Malaysia and then moved to London England as a child. and was told that this was home, but it never really felt like home I was just. Looking in from the outside, and that's that's kind of carried on I lived in Arizona for a long time and then I moved to New York and then everything's going badly for me New York and then I got invited to Mississippi And saw this old farmhouse five bedroom farmhouse on twelve acres. And it was for sale and it was one, hundred, thirty, thousand dollars and decided to take the plunge with my girlfriend that farmhouse was in the Mississippi Delta, and while I was there, I got to hear about Nashes, which is a little bit south of the Delta in the southwest corner of Mississippi on the on the river, and I found out that net is at once had more millionaires per capita than anywhere else in America the it had the second largest slave market in the south it had voted not to succeed in the civil war and refused to fight the civil war. and. Then I got wind that there was this kind of eccentric high-society taking place in the old mansions where people would dress up in hoop skirts and confederate uniforms. which made it sound like a bastion of the old south, and then I found out that netted had voted for a gay black mayor with ninety one percent of the vote and what is this place and? How did it get this way? So you decided to check it out and write the book. So I, studied by goal very good invitation actually this. Has a woman call Regina Charbonneau who's a chef and a cookbook writer, and she's friends with the rolling stones and Lily Tomlin and she used to have a club in a restaurant in San Francisco. Anyway. She's from that had moved back there and she invited me to stay in her antebellum mansion and that became my headquarters. She liked to tell people yes. We keep an Englishman in the attic had this upstairs room so she was a great entree to the. The kind of world if. Tuxedoed Bulls and cocktail parties, and then I also got to know there's a African American man with an impossible name. But everyone calls him Sir box, -Ly I got to be friends of him and he's really kind of spearheaded this effort to make the town look at its history more honestly to recognize that the town was built on slavery and to include Black History in the experience that they market to tourists sounds like a fascinating divide between white and black citizens and it's modern outlook and it's and it's confederate. Heritage Yeah, it's really it's really just one contradiction after another and seems like in some ways, the confederacy still lives and that's something that's perplexing. I think to a lot of Americans is the resilience of the I don't know what you'd call it but this confederate pride, he is also kind of a a fake thing natcher's because you know Nazis voted not to not to secede and didn't fight with the confederacy in the civil war and then in the decades after the civil war, it became swept up in this. Kind of lost cause mythology. And then kind of persuaded itself had been a staunch confederate bastion and then you have these ritualistic kind of theatrical plays. They're they still dress up in confederate officers uniforms. You've talked about the lost cause the yeah. This was this the south persuaded itself after the civil war that the civil had just been about. Rights and that the slaves had been happy and well fad and that the war was not about slavery. And that kind of bundle of mythology is is known in short hands the lost cause salon that must be the way decent people can be proud of their confederate fight in the civil war. Yes, they it's by no means a universal belief amongst white southerners but among those that do believe it. Yeah. It turns the war into something. Rather than rather than an effort to. While they wanted to expand slavery this travel with Rick Steves Richard Grants. Our guest in his book is the deepest south of all true stories from Natural Mississippi in his book introduces us to one of America's most unusual cities even by Mississippi Standards and the people he got to know over a year of exploring their stories. His website is Richard Grant Dot us. Richard I want to get more into the culture in this interesting sort of contradiction in that is the first of all I wanna to talk about the town as a tourist town. If you're going there as a tourist, one of the things people WanNa do what are the attractions from tourism point of view look traditionally tourism and net has been on the kind of gone with the wind model you you go to visit the mansions in the spring there's something called pilgrimage. whereby the owners of the antebellum homes dress up in period costumes and invite you to tour their homes. And that still going on. But in recent years, there's been a big push to also visit the site of the second largest slave market in the deep South playschool folks in the road. which is a an interesting and spooky and exciting place there is there is a re a reassessment of our fascination with this charming antebellum culture, right the but today, a lot of people don't even WanNa Watch gone with the wind because there's so much. Embrace of racism is that Yeah I. think that that Generation Taurus is telling age out and what what you see in that as a lot of Europeans to kind of do the whole story. The. Tableau is but it'll be more honest showing the reality as well as the fantasy right? I mean the whole time was built on trafficking slaves and using and slave labor in gigantic cotton plantations, and that's that's where all the beauty of the architecture comes from. But rather than covering that over as they've done for a long, the town is now assessing that more. Honestly you can't. You can't go to net his as a Taurus now and not here that the full history but that's a big change because I bet. There, and you could just think oh everything was just You know a tea party. Yeah. mean it used to town slogan used to be where the old south lives. Richard when we think of. All batches you learned a lot from finding these different sort of dimensions up the society and you found these two what Aristocratic Garden Clubs It was an interesting way to get into the interracial complexities. You've got the Pilgrimage Garden Club in the Net Garden Club toss about that. Okay. So we we we gotta go back to the Early Nineteen thirties here whether it was one matches garden club and it came up with the idea of opening up these old antebellum homes tourists and charging the money. And it was a roaring success people came from all over the country to tore these these antebellum mansions in netters. Then the club studied feuding and they split into two clubs and that feud between the two clubs is still going strong today. And they have. Sued. Each Other. They've padlocked each other's homes they've. Also, of scurrilous gossip as pastor and the town and Rye much. It'd be kind of with one club, the other club and they control most of the tourism in in the antebellum homes nurtures. Good. A very matriarchal aspect to it matches. The town is always head so to strong women in charge. You know when I think about it from tourism point of view it's it's like not only going to place. That's far away. But as they go into a place, that's got one foot in its deep passed in a world that you couldn't imagine lives today and one foot in a very complicated but fluid of present. Yep. This is also a large gay population. It's very, very tolerant when it comes to being gay specially by Mississippi standards. I mean the the fact that that is voted in a gay black mayor with ninety one percent of the vote is just tell that to other people in Mississippi and their jaw falls open. Richard Grant Explores the charm and contradictions of matches Mississippi in his book the deepest self. All. Richard also won the pet conroy southern book price for his memoir dispatches from Pluto. It's about living the Mississippi River Delta. We have links to interrupt website and his earlier appearances on travel with Rick Steves at Rick Steves dot com slash radio. Okay let's say I'm on vacation I can fly in and I got two days, three nights and Richard Grants might tour guide and I read your book and I'm just fascinated by it and I wanna see the touristy stuff but I also want to get a little connection into the old matches you're talking about, what would we do in two days? What first sight seeing agenda and and who would you introduce me to? Okay. Well, sight seeing I, mean the the town itself, any fifteen thousand people now and Used to be bigger and it sits on this high bluff above the Mississippi. River. With just breathtaking view see definitely going to walk along the bluff and gaze out over the river. And that's how you look across the river and you see the flatlands and Louisiana little cotton plantations used to be that the net is built its wealth on. You you're GONNA WANNA hit a couple of has the most opulent antebellum. Mansions in the south. You'RE GONNA WANNA go to probably Stanton Hall which is like walking into time capsule of eighteen sixty. Occupies. A whole city block in his you know not not much shy of the White, house when it comes to Grandia And then you're GONNA WANNA get Longwood, which is an octagonal mansion it was being built during the civil war and the workers fled they. They hard workers from up north to build the thing but they got scare the one they left and left a letter tools behind search unfinished. And they've unfinished, it's one of the garden clubs owns in. They have great guides will just tell you crazy stories one after another about these mansions. So I would say you'd Stanton Hall in Longwood would be the homes to visit. You'd WANNA walk along the bluff and you want to visit the folks in the road slave market see. How all this grandeur and opulence was created. I would say you WANNA go to the African American history and Culture Museum. The black history in that is particularly interesting for example, during the civil rights? Era. They did not go for peaceful non violent protests. They had an armed paramilitary group of activists cool. Deacons for defense who succeeded in backing down the clan and forcing the city to up to lemons. So you can learn about that at the African American History Museum. Yeah. Wow. That is I've never heard of that somebody who can stand up like INA. Let's brawl kind of way with the cake. Yeah it was it was working class black men a lot of them had been soldiers in World War Two and they just rejected the idea of. Kick Aka all the sudden somebody it hidden it works it works the Klan backed off. You know when we think antebellum that, of course means from the culture before the civil war, right? Yes, and that it's survives, it survives a hundred and fifty years later it's sort of like miraculous that anything survives considering all the the chain, all the devastation of that war and everything. But if you WANNA see antidevelopment sounds like natch. With this strange wealth with more millionaires per capita than any other city in with mansions that apparently rival the White House. It's quite an astounding attraction just from St, sightseeing point of view, and then in the last generation with all the modern sensibility about racism in our in our national sort of struggle with racism to have the the dual narrative approach where you see the the mansions and the plantation fantasy life and gone with the wind, and at the same time you see the slave markets and you and you learn about the realities it sounds like you could. You could do a whole college course on American history right there and that just. I think so I I mean, you know obviously I became thoroughly interested in into the point where I I spent a couple years there and wrote a book about it. But when I first went there it seemed it seemed eccentric. It seemed like incredibly southern in good ways and bad. I'm very women people very gracious and hospitable and very funny storytellers. But then the more time I spent there the more natural the seem like a kind of microcosm of America when it when it comes to the legacy of slavery and race. It seemed like a kind of distillation of of of all America's conflicts and troubled around the topic of race. Who would they're kind of distill a way NASHES. This. Is Travel with Rick Steves. We're talking with Richard Grant and Richard is the author of the deepest south of all true stories from matches Mississippi. There's more about his work and travel articles. He's written at his website that's Richard Grant Dot us. Richard if you think about your, you've lived in New York. What do you think people from north of the Mason Dixon. Line get wrong about a place like natural. What's going to told us what do we need to understand? I don't think people up north understand how close black and white people are, how how many close relationships friendships quiz I familial. Relationships happened between black and white. When there was a woman in the book he told me he said, you know there's white men down here who would. Who would take a bullet for their closest black friend, but they'd have also reached for the pistol if he tried to marry their sister. Racism down there can can be can be it can be very close like love can be a part of a relationship that also has prejudice in it. It's much more complicated than racism up North into brain twister the more you know about it, the more you want to know about it. Or like a lot of these inayatullah in on the kind of well to do white people in a lot of them had a black women who sometimes nurse and certainly raised them. They had these very, very close relationships. That you know continued but. Even. Though they were so close that would be really awkward for them socially to eat dinner together at the same table Richard. Our country has going through some amazing Heartache just grappling with our the the structural racism that we've we've accepted for so long and now you know with all the demonstrations they're happening and so on. We're raising awareness of of difficult realities. You've learned a lot in. NASHES. I would imagine as you've seen the demonstrations recently in our country. You must draw from your experience what what can your time in Nashes share with us to teach us in the rest of the country about racism What I mean. One thing about matches is the link between raced base slavery before the civil war and modern. Day Racism is just completely undeniable. You've got the slave market they've got the mansions. You've also got black people light skinned black people who can point at the white family who lighten this skin tone is like it's sold on a kind of a micro level. You know American racism stems from the fact that. Race was used to justify American slavery it all flows from that, and that becomes very, very clear in that she has. And these these conversations about race that are taking place now finally. In the rest of the. Net just been having those conversations quite intensively for the last fifteen twenty years. Richard Grant, thanks for writing the deepest south all and sharing lessons with us. About. These true stories from natch is in Mississippi come down and have a bowl of Gumbo at Regina's kitchen with me sometime I'm there. Thanks Richard. There's more from Richard Grant on what he learned about southern history and matches in an extra today's show. You can hear it from the radio page of our website at Steves dot com slash radio. TV correspondent Conor Knighton tells us about his year exploring each one of America's national parks that's next on travel with Rick Steves. When his personal life started to spin out of control conor Knighton decided it was time to catch his breath and he did that by visiting what people have called America's best idea his bosses at CBS. Sunday morning agreed that a TV series on each one of the US national parks would be worth the year it would require visit them all. Connor joins us now to tell us what he discovered about America, each of its national parks he writes about in this book leave only footprints. Have me give us the backstory to your book before we get into the parks, what what was the impetus for the book and how did it relate to your personal life? Ended a CBS series that you work on Sunday morning. So I actually was was about get a Rick Steves Book and head to Europe my plan for that year was very different. I was engaged to be married, and then in the middle half of two thousand, fifteen might then fiance called off the engagement I was. Adrift is very sad at the time and sort of a self imposed kind of self quarantine where I was sitting around the house in the future that I thought I had lined up for me had disappeared and my friends were telling me it got to get back out there I. Think I over corrected in that department talk I really got out there really got a change of scenery I'd seen that it was going to be one hundredth. Anniversary of the National Park Service in Twenty Sixteen, I thought well that could be a coup series of stories for Sunday morning. It could also just be exactly what I needed in my own life, and so I pitched my boss in New York to do a series of stories on the parks they said, yes not to all of them they said that we may do a third for the broadcast and then at that moment I decided you know. What I'm going to go all in, make up the difference and see those other two-thirds on my own. So I gave up my place, hit the road and went out to go see a a year. We talk about a crossroads in your life from one thing that you thought was going to happen to something entirely different than making a bonus out of it taking a year off visiting all the parks. Now, the parks are famously called America's. Best idea what they say that and do agree after visiting them all I do and actually when that phrase gained popularity, it was in relation to Europe and a lot of ways. Some of the most beautiful places in Europe were privately owned or at some kings courtyard or whatever, and in the US places like Yellowstone Yosemite there was this idea that they should be for everyone they should not be only for the rich they should be accessible by. All people owned by the people of the United States and so those parks which began with just a handful and and then have included now four hundred, some park sites everything from rivers to see shores to national monuments. That idea is uniquely American and now has since been replicated in countries the world and made me surprisingly proud to be an American. It's it's tough not to stand in those places looking at one of those vistas and not. To realize that, your co owner of some of the best real estate in the world quite love that concept a CO owner. Now, as Co owners, I would want the parks to be well managed I. Want them to be well run. You visited all of them over the course of the year when you come away from that, did you feel like they're in good hands? What did you take away about how they're doing how they're being run will? So, on a personal level, I've yet to meet a Boring Park Ranger I'm sure they're out there but to a person everyone I met was there for the right reasons it's not a job you do for the money. I, mean you're you're a government worker in some very remote areas. They're there because they love that work that said I. Don't think that there is a park that would say that there are appropriately funded. There's a multi billion. Dollar backlog of maintenance and the parks roads trails and all sorts of things that need to be done. So on that level, we could prioritize more from a funding perspective, but the attitude they are on the ground is I think the appropriate attitude and I would think that the park service's a mission driven organization were people at every level of employment. There have this love of nature and so on. Did you find that I did? Yeah, it's. Almost like you're in a nature army where you sort of do a tour of duty and since I was on my own tour that year were I'm hitting many parks. I was surprised how good I got at the name game where I go to Virgin Islands National Park and have a ranger told me she used to work at Congress in South Carolina and instantly, I, would know someone that she knew because the park rangers just cycle through a different parks. But yeah, they all seem mission driven. It may take a while your life's dream is to work at the Grand Canyon while. So's every want. So you put it put in some time at A. All Museum in Philadelphia or something before you get there we did feel very mission driven and you feel that in the visitors to you feel kinship with folks who you're out on the trail with where you have something in common with them, you have both chosen to spend your leisure time in this protected place at a time when there are so many other things. Competing for your attention, you start to feel kinship with other visitors in the parks and when you say something in common when you think about our country today, there's a lot of division required a fractured country at this time, and if we go to the parks that something we might have in common what you take away just on on how parks can help our country. Unify in a time when we're searching for common ground. Yeah, I mean they are literally our common ground in that they are owned and paid for by all of us and those divisions that can seem so stark everywhere else disappear when you're standing on the rim of the Grand Canyon or plotting rue the the great sand dunes of Colorado. They also enjoy overwhelming levels of support. You know there are there are some political issues with the parks whether it's mining or hunting on different land. There are controversies for sure but you say some of these places and everyone loves them and that's not what else can we say that about yet they bring folks together and you don't feel as divisions enough that said, there are some issues with diversity and then access in the parks where it's not as for everyone as the mission would seem to make you believe but but they're working on that and when you're standing on the edge of Kenyon and your gazing out at that, you see what we have to be. Thankful for what we have in common, you also may be reminded that this was native American property I, what was your experience on on how the parks are acknowledging I mean now when you go to Canada, you're constantly reminded about first nations and so is there a new awareness in this time when we're trying to be more mindful of diversity and respecting different peoples that we acknowledge that this is generally native American property before was National Park again, I mean, it's a belated acknowledgement for sure but the parks are starting to shift those narratives where that is a story whether it's just putting an exhibit in the visitor center, incorporating it into a ranger program or providing. Access for religious practices for tribes that are in that area. That's all getting better. Yes. The story of of so many of these places by the way, the story of so many of our cities as well. It's just the parks of the last places left that might look like the same land hundreds and thousands of years ago. It's tough to keep that story top of mind when you're wandering around. CLEVELAND. But when you're in wandering through MOAB Arches National Park, you can think about who used to live there and sometimes you see visual reminders Capitol Reef National Park in Utah Has Petroglyphs and you've standing there as I'm feeling a religious experience and then seeing these paintings that were most likely some sort of religious expression of culture thousands and thousands of years older is a powerful experience to have that. CONOR. Knighton is are socially distance home studio guest right now on travel with sixty. He writes about what he discovered a year visiting each one of the US national parks in his book leave only footprints. Connor. Also has produced the on the trail and island hopping travel reports for CBS. Sunday morning his website is conor Knighton DOT com. Connor when you put together the book leave only footprints which covers all of the park, some Acadia Tahsin You didn't group it geographically, you grouped it by themes and I've seen different books on the national parks but I haven't seen it done this way. What was your point? Why did you to grouping it this way? Well, I realized one advantage I had and having seen all of them not just some of them is that. I had this perspective where I was able to see the threads that tied these wildly different places together. So Kobuk Valley National Park north of the Arctic Circle and Cuyahoga Valley National Park right outside Cleveland are far away and the topography is very different but both had stories to teach me about living off the land and the importance of food I grouped some parts together based on lessons of forgiveness or God and a chronological. When I look back on the year I don't think of it that way. Also, my chronology was very confusing because I was sometimes because cruising the segments for the show I was circling back. So I think it would just for anyone who is semi familiar with a map it would have been a very confusing chronological. Is this guy going back to great smoky mountains? Didn't he pass that in February and the truth is I did but I the piece I wanted to do there which was on this cemetery that provides access once a year that happened in June so I had to high tail it back from. Mount Rainier and a week later, go all the way back to rates. So as a lot of criss crossing the country, you know, Connor, I know from my experience that you can take two people to the same place and they can have two different experiences depending on what's going on inside of them and what attitude they bring in what understanding they bring to that site or that experience you brought your own emotional and psychological baggage with you to these parks. What can you advise people who are going to be going to a park anywhere to get the most out of it or to get out of their? Comfort Zone are beat transformed isn't a good part of that not how great the park is but how able we are to give ourselves up to it? Absolutely I think a good example of that is isle, Royal, National Park off the Northern Coast of Michigan that's park where the scenery isn't. So starting I'm sure Michiganders' disagree with me, but it's part of it is how isolated you are at that park that was the experience that I took away to the park in the lower forty-eight at least with extremely long levels visitation. So the Grand Canyon, for example, might have like three and a half hour average visit. It's three and a half days or something thereabouts for all royal because once you get there which requires a sea plane or boat, you stay there and so that experience of being completely disconnected both from the land and also from cell phone service taking everything you need on your back hiking for four days in a loop around the island. That's an experience that's different than maybe a must see attraction like the main arch in arches there's no must see attraction at I'll royal. But in a way, it was a more transformative experience for me because of how alone I was at that park you know you've got A. Book called missing the forest for the tweets. Quandary as tour guide I, know people are looking at their cell phone too much. They're just got their selfie stick up and they're not even in the moment. Did you notice that this is a challenge for people who are trying to appreciate our in our country? It is also a challenge for the parks themselves as they struggle with how connected they WANNA be. You know, does that mean having Wifi the visitor center does that mean blanketing the entire park with Verizon Tower, the upside of that activity? would be search and rescue becomes much easier when you can call for help. The flip side of that one is that maybe people are more likely to take trips. They shouldn't take because they think that they're just a nine one one call away from the rescue. So it's it's real delicate balance of encouraging access especially among younger people if the parks aren't popular with twenty somethings when those twentysomethings or fifty something's and are prioritizing where to spend their money, take their families on vacation who to vote for. Why would they prioritize places? They've never been or experienced and savvy. If you WANNA, get a twenty year old to come to a park sometimes that means ensuring them that they can check instagram weather there, and so I am of the camp more of trying to shut off as much as possible but not to be judgmental about that because that experience of taking a picture and posting it for your friends friends back in a city who have maybe never seen a place like that that can be important to. Beautiful thing it does yeah. The flip side of that is sometimes it drives people to a destination that may be can't handle that influx of people. There are some places parks that used to just be known to the the most in the know guides and hikers, and now there's a geo tagged coordinate for that everybody tried to go to that Vista and that can sometimes damages resources. So it's a balance. This is travel with Rick steves talking with Connor night connor spending your visiting each of America's national parks order to create a series of video travel reports that aired on CBS Sunday morning. Takes US behind the scenery and he writes about what each one showed him in his book. Leave only footprints we have linked to connors work with this week's show that Rick Steves dot com, slash radio. Connor you sit out and you had to visit all the parks because that was your goal. I imagined some of the parks you were eager to see and others you were thinking while I gotta go there because it's on the list what were the surprising parks which ones that you visited or actually more rewarding or exciting than you expected? Out surprised when I look down that list when I was first conceiving of this, how many I hadn't heard of. That like. They would all be recognizable names and in a way it's what convinced me that it would be a good idea for a series, and then ultimately a book is that how many of them were complete unknowns to me so great sand Dunes National Park in Colorado, one of the quietest places in the country. This bit of the Sahara that it was transposed onto the rocky mountains never heard place before many of the remote Alaskan parks, a gates of the. Arctic cat my late Clark I wasn't familiar with any of those but I'd say Biscane National Park was a nice surprise for me because that's a park just south of Miami. You can see the Miami Skyline from the visitor center and really if you were to look at the park, it doesn't look like much looks like the ocean movie looks like much of South Florida but the surprise is waiting for you just beneath the surface of that ocean. So. I went on an underwater trail I got scuba certified and went diving down to these shipwrecks. The park has made these interpretive signs like you'd see on the side of trail except it's on the bottom of the ocean where it's as rock and it says, this was the Lugano it's in Nineteen Oh three and it gives you the description and you have no idea if you just popped in and looked out at the water that something like that was there that's a park in Florida and I'm here on the West Coast and we know in our so excited about our great national parks in the West in the rockies. There are a lot of parks in the east, can you just quickly flip through a few of them just so we can give the person the east there due. Attention, what are the highlights of parks in the eastern United, states. And what you're asking has been basically since the nineteen thirties were folks in the east initially felt like they'd gotten the short shrift when it came to national parks. So many of the iconic ones are in the West Yosemite, Yellowstone Arches, all of those glacier. So the east at the parks a little later but mammoth cave National Park, in Kentucky, there's Acadia in Maine which is where I started my year. That's spectacular on. There's a lot of smaller ones part of that is that the east was settled first by Europeans. So a lot of the land was taken up by towns at that point but connery, national park in. South Carolina it's the last little bit laughed of the old growth bottomland hardwood forest looks swampy and spooky. That's they're the most well known as probably the everglades also in Florida, and then the strike is National Park, which is technically an eastern park, but it's a good sixty miles past the edge of key west this little island out in the middle of the ocean. You know one thing i. felt that you have a particular interest in his trees, majestic trees and and how they actually relate to us. You mentioned every tree is a witness tree. They see how we spend our time on earth and what we take what we give. The world's oldest tree in the Redwood National Park. The tallest anyways talk a bit about trees in the power of trees that you can gain an appreciation for when you visit the ARC's. Some of those I started calling celebrities because the parks have many of the superlative types of trees so whether that's the largest, which is the general. Sherman tree at Sequoia National Park the tallest. In the redwoods and we don't know where it is because scientists realized that I mean someone knows where it is but visitors don't they were worried that if people flock to that specific tree, the roots would be damaged. It would just be too much of a scene but every redwood is so much taller than any tree that you would see on the east coast. Most of the the iconic trees are clustered in the West. It's the only part of nature that I feel like sees me back. I can walk by a beautiful mountain and I can go along the banks of a beautiful river when I'm underneath a canopy of those trees I feel like they are looking at me I. Don't know if that's I've seen too much wizard of. Timing that. They see me back. This is travel with Rick Steves, who've been talking with His book is leave only footprints, my acadia design journey through every national park connor. Thanks so much for sharing your experience and can we just wrap up this conversation with a takeaway you've visited fifty nine national parks. Most of us would just love to visit a handful. How can we get the most out of our park experience in and why does that matter I? Mean I think for me it was appreciating the scenic diversity of our country fact that in one nation, we've got the Desert Joshua Tree, the glaciers of Keanae fjords, the murky swamps of the everglades and the rocky coast of Acadia at that is all in the US really gave. Me An appreciation for these treasures that are in our backyard, and also a time away from technology attend to physically challenge yourself. There's a lot of benefits that you get when you're out there on the trail and a camaraderie with other folks. So it was the most scenic and the most transformative year of my life and and it will affect my thinking going forward and you visit them on a year. I think we've got a lifetime of opportunities. When we think of all the wonders, our national park system has to offer a much saner way to experience them by the way I would recommend first time approach versus the year approach. Very good. Travel with route Steve's is produced. Rick Steves Europe in Edmonds Washington by Kim tappers and cows Moore Hall. We get websites support from American Akune promotion support from Sheila Girls Off. Our theme is by Jerry Frank. Special. Thanks to our colleagues at Arizona. Public. Media for studio help this week and two is a Kaplan Wilner for setting up our first remote home studio recording sessions. You can hear more from Richard Grant on our website at Rick Steves dot com slash radio, and we'll look for you again next week with more travel with Rick Steves. Hey I'm Rick Steves in my latest book for the love of Europe you can save her. You're supposed to exciting experiences insights through one hundred of my favorite travel stories imagine hanging from an Alpine Ridge dancing at a Turkish circumcision party and swinging with a bell ringer in Medieval Church buyer you can order your copy of for the love of Europe at Rick. STEVES DOT COM.

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Ep. - 204 - CO-EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF JOE MILLIONAIRE

Reality Life with Kate Casey

53:28 min | 1 year ago

Ep. - 204 - CO-EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF JOE MILLIONAIRE

"Welcome back to another episode of Reality Life With Casey hoped that you're having a great week week. Today was my son's eighth birthday. I cried at least five times. I'm a total wreck. When it's my kids birthdays? I just go back to the day they were born and I just think about it and then I start losing my mind and I weep in front of people and it's highly embarrassing. That's normal right to just totally cry when you think of your child's birth. I've also been keeping myself busy this week by watching the new season of the crown. I cannot overstate how fantastic the show is now. It's a scripted drama but it almost feels like a reality television show because you're getting an inside look into history having to do with the royal family now. I don't think there's anybody that interest most people more at this point than what's going behind the scenes at Kensington Indian Palace especially between William and Kate and Megan and hairy. So I love the crown because and I might add. This is the only show that I can watch with my husband husband because you know he watches war movies and he watches shows like billions and succession. And I watch garbage shows so this is the one that we can watch together. And and it's my favorite kind of show because we google the entire time. There's so much British history that I never knew about and you can't believe the stories is that have gone on that we never knew about an. It's because the people who work at the Castle Kensington Palace are masterful in doing lean crisis. Pr They have covered up so many stories that the crown reveals that. You can't even believe it so I don't know I kind of feel like if view love reality shows you're going to love the crown so please watch it and also Andrew being in the news all the time right now. It reminded me that I heard a rumor a couple years ago ago. That Angie Everhart son is really Prince Andrew. Whose child is that true and somebody kind of do some research on it? I feel like I heard that I don't know if I've ever seen pictures of her son so I don't know that was something that I heard this episode. I'm freaking gain out about not only because I asked Jamie keilor's to watch unpolished on. TLC which is a new show and his take is so funny. But I've got a chance to talk to Liz Bronstein. who was the show runner and CO executive producer of a fantastic show that lives in infamy called Joe Millionaire it aired in two thousand three on Fox and it was like nothing we ever seen because Fox put together show that was basically earliest spoof about the bachelor but got someone to pretend that they were a really really wealthy heir to the Marriott fortune but was in fact just a construction -struction worker and the whole theme of the show is like Ken? We full these women. Will they think that he is Joe Millionaire and then at the end. If they're the finalist list they get to find out. He's really construction worker and the real question is will she stay with him if she knows he doesn't have the money. And I'm telling you people going bananas for the show. It has the highest rated finale in reality television history. It was like thirty four point six million which is on heard of you think of like in basic like a week real housewives of Orange County. We'll get like one point. Two million viewers thirty four point six million people and I just remember Knbr was on the cover of magazines. People went crazy for it. Of course there were less reality shows them and people were really captivated at that time with the bachelor so this this kind of gives you a little glimpse into or audio glimpse into what the show was about There was an average Joe. The living by simply moving to a we need married Ninety thousand dollars the year. What will happen when every Multi millionaire red wine going there. He talked the ways of the world. Now Evan will invite twenty beautiful women Chateau in France. The Lee has just inherited over. Fifty Aw Man Dreams is honest. Aw He will love with Richard It really is. I never dated into highly. That made a lot of money. The reason for living in a fairytale. It'd be interesting to see how it plays out. We'll have detail about every to explain goal story by fifty million dollars because the more you think about it. He's mine. Get over it. I have never seen grown independent self-sufficient women I'd like such brats. I'm a competitive person Waist deep in it now I can't I can't go back. Thanks RASA coming to treat no matter how much myself Apollo realized about anything. Oh my gosh. Now when they're showing this they talk about him making nineteen thousand dollars shopping French fries into his mouth and he's working at this like dumpy construction insight and then you see him in France at this over the top castle and these girls. Oh my gosh. These were the days before they wore hair. Extensions and spray tans an eyelash extensions and they seem normal like they have real jobs and like hopes and dreams for the world outside of TV or at least seemed it and it was unbelievable and every buddy in the country was talking about it seriously we everybody was obsessed with it so I was so excited that I got to talk to Liz Bronstein. And I'm so thrilled for you. Hear that interview so here we go. Liz Bronze Dean is a showrunner and executive producer known for several hit series including whale wars. CNN's believer with resume as Lon- and Ocean warriors she is filmed all over the world including remote dangerous environments from an article to the South African Bush and and made a string of hit shows that broke new ground in the reality documentary genre. Liz was the show runner of Miramax Emmy nominated project greenlight on. HBO and Joe Millionaire on Fox which still holds the record as the highest rated reality finale in the history of television welcomes the show. Thank you thanks so much bill to be here so tell me a little bit about how you got into television. Well in high school I was always that girl. It smells like darkroom chemicals. I had a darker my bathroom and I love photography and I love being alone in a dark room and when I left college I really wanted to be an editor And so I got Like it was easy at that point to get a job at CNN in Atlanta. They were just starting out and so I did. I moved to Atlanta and I worked my way up to news editor news editor for about five years at CNN in an at a really exciting time But then at a certain point you know you're you're just you're good and you're fast but there's there's no real way to get better as a news other in my opinion. Yeah and the avid. Just come out and I literally read the avid manual and taught myself how to use the avid. And I got my car and I drove to Los Angeles and I said I was an avid editor. And then I you know you can tell you make it and so what was the first project that you really that you worked on that you felt like I've really made it. I'm not sure I've worked on that project yet. You know you're you're always you're always challenging yourself and always feeling like you better and You know you're constantly learning thing and always feeling like you're failing and succeeding and failing and succeeding and of all the projects that you've worked on. What would you say thus as far as the one that holds the closest place to your heart? Well there's two really One is jockeys. It's a show that I did for Animal Planet in a two thousand nine two seasons and I growing up I grew up in a in a gambling family And my stepfather bet on the horses for a living. Although my mother would say was not for living it was just something he did. And I always love the racetrack. Doc and I always wanted to make a show about their jockeys and was lucky enough to sell that series to animal planet and so we did two seasons out. I cannot need a Following six jockeys through their lives and that show is just so close to my heart. I just I love that world I love those jockeys and and the stories. We were able to tell them that. Show so if you can find that somewhere online. I'm very proud of that. And then you know the second one one is Joe Millionaire. I mean that that was a really incredible project. What I remember most about Joe Millionaire is really? How captured all of America's Erica's attention? I can still remember reading that. The cast of friends were captivated by the show. And we're all taking bets on. What would happen to walk us back through history and tell us how you became involved with the project? I had never heard that thing about friends. That's interesting 'cause we were. We were making making it as it was airing so we were in this sort of crazy. Production bubbles so they're at school. I never hear that Okay so here's how here's how Joe happened. I had done season one of project light and it was my first job as show runner and the second season project greenlight. There was an incredibly long time between the first and second can seasons. 'cause it's a complicated deal with all those big players so sitting at home and I got a call from A friend of mine. WHO's a producer who I had produced some stuff for and he said okay? You can't tell anyone about the. Here's the here's the project is from Mike. Arnold Fox. We spooked the bachelor. A guy pretends to be a millionaire. He's actually a construction worker in the end he reveals all and it's a total secret show. I was like I'm in. I'm in and I literally. I walked away from project greenlight and decided to do this. Sort of crazy Razi Aziz show and partly it was because you know I could feel right away that it was a narrative concept as a reality show and that's and that's really rare. You know I mean it was really a ROM com. It was like somebody percent pretends to be someone. They're not in order to see if they're really love for who they the. How many seasons at that point had the bachelor been on because it was pretty? That was pretty early into the bachelor and people were really obsessed with the bachelor so this was to make fun of. It was probably a pretty big deal. Yeah I think I think they had only one season. It's not to it was. It was all pretty now so I signed up. So I you know it was the company called rocket science laboratories and it was. It was run by two guys who I knew really well and had worked with before and was very close with Chris Collin and let me show me you know we started off and it was this big secret and I pretty quickly decided that the best best way to keep this gigantic secret was to make it sound really boring so I named the show the big choice which sounds really boring and I told my agent. I like my family all my friends. I said that we were basically doing the Bachelorette we're doing you know the Bachelor but starring a woman and made it sound really dull so nobody asks anymore questions right when you're doing a project that doesn't sound interesting and I had policy on the staff that nobody could write down the secret on paper and this was you know the Internet was really new but still nobody can put it on paper because I feel like once something goes on paper the secret out and then it would all be ruined. Tell me a little bit about the a choice for Evan Marriott. How in the world did you guys We had a casting director. WHO's incredible edible Tyler Ramsey and we searched high and low? And I mean we must have seen hundreds of guys and the thing that we didn't really anticipate eight was how hard it would be to find somebody who was a with a blue collar worker but had had the swagger and the The attitude of someone really wealthy right and we didn't really think that through you know all the guys that we met. Who had were these blue collar? Construction workers there was just no way they could have pulled hold off acting like a wealthy person And we went through hundreds of guys and we'd gone to the point where they were GonNa shut the show down. I mean we just couldn't find her Joe Millionaire and then are casting director. Tyler was driving Pathak and -struction site and and he saw Evan working construction site and hold over what had just walked up to him. and Said Hey would you be interested in this. I mean it actually happened that away. That's wild and it. We're GONNA last minute thing. I mean it was like Oh my God get him in front of my. We found the guy we found the guy. Let's let's move forward at the practice. Do you think that he thought this process through or did he just seem like he was up for anything during the headlights here in the headlights yet. No idea what he was up for. I'm going back to preparing for the show. You know my first meeting with Mike Darnell. Oh at Fox and you know Mike Their analysis this amazing guru of reality TV. I mean the guys responsible for creating so many genres event just so brilliant and my first meeting with him he said Liz. We're GONNA make these women look like gold diggers that gold diggers that they are. And we're GONNA in a shoot this on an island and we're GonNa make them bikinis and we're gonNA prove lunar gold diggers and I was like Mike Newsflash Josh women want to be with the best hunter in the tribe Like I don't think that That is any kind of big revelation that women want. WanNa be with a man who can take care of them And I don't think that's the point of this show at all you know. I think it's a romantic comedy. And it's it's about actually finding love being loved for who you are and why don't we shoot it in France and make it a fairytale like put women in Bikinis like let's just not do that. Come on on let's get a horse and let's get carriages and and let's make it like a real life Rom Com and he was like okay. Fine just make good escaped having Basically the Paradise Hotel. How did you prepare him for the show uh-huh and he's got to play the part so he has to have some working knowledge of really fancy? Schools has to have certain table etiquette. He has to know about luxury luxury. Items was there somebody on staff who prepped him. Questions and the truth is just didn't have have time. I I mean I you know. I can't remember the timetable. But we had to put Evan through psych screenings and background checks. And you know by the time we got him approved. I mean I think maybe we had had like a couple of days before you had to get on the plane so these are all things that we didn't have time to do. I mean we literally had to buy his wardrobe when we you were in Paris because we had not had time to get him close in Back in Los Angeles and I remember we shot these sequences of Evans Etiquette Training. where he learns how to use which for us and all that which we shot afterwards because we have time time? Wow so one of the problems was that Evan didn't know any of this stuff And he you know the fact that his last name was Marriott was just Kinda gift you US people thought that he was a descendant of the Marriott family which there was no relation also. The funny part is that the Marriott family is like Mormon family so if anybody who it like really thought through in terms of the contestants they may have thought a lot will if why is he drinking. If these Mariotti is probably part of this Mormon family yeah no relation no relation and in fact. I remember the first scene. We decided that Evan would ride in on a horse and of course he had never ridden a horse and we were take that he would just fall right off and so we had him ride like the tiniest distance on my the oldest force could find. I mean you're so you're saying it and I absolutely remember but I think that the part of that you're totally right. It was almost like a ROM com because he seemed so funny. Johny the whole thing just seemed like absolutely hilarious. How were you able to find women to cast because when this show came about it was way before you had contestants that were really about you know? Obviously growing their instagram fame. And we're really savvy to the entertainment industry three. So how were you able to find. Women like the two finalists who really felt like. They were plucked from obscurity and had normal jobs. Well they they really were plucked from obscurity. I mean you're absolutely right. This was you know bachelor had an on for one season this genre was in its infancy and you you know there was. There was no sort of comedy trope of. I'm not here to make friends. The girls were all over the place like some of the girls were there to get famous. I mean there were a lot of times. We had cut out conversations where they talked about which morning shows that they wanted to be on the show. Oh my really At yeah even back then. We're like this is GonNa launch me and there were other girls. Were just genuinely there to have denture. you know. I can't say any of them more so naive that they really thought that they fall in love but but it was a much different time. They weren't sort of J. as jaded and cynical As they are now and much more innocent did they. Were there situations that you had to cut out out while you were filming where someone was starting to question whether or not he was legitimately from this wealthy family. Well they never questioned whether or not. He was from a wealthy family but a lot of some didn't like him very much. That was what we had to cut around like. Evan wasn't particularly charming with the girls. He wasn't really that interested in them. I'm not saying that he didn't like women but you know he just didn't care that much he wasn't really there to find love and there were times where I would say like Evan. Just go to dinner with this woman afterwards. I'll let you have a pizza party with these guys and it'd be like okay do it. Yeah and you know the girls could sense mm fat he you know. He wasn't romancing that he was sort of phoning it in and he wasn't sophisticated and he wasn't charming and they for the most part they were not smitten with him and and so we had to cut around a lot of that. Like you like Evan. I don't really do you do You know so but part of what you do on those shows and now the people who who have made these shows for these last years have announced with science and we were just learning and at the time as you know once you cut off all contacts with the outside world you know you you you create this really unreal environment and so these. These contestants live in this bubble Play up constantly this idea that he is amazing and I would interview the girls constantly. You know on camera and I would just say things like Oh my God. You're so lucky to get be getting to meet him. He's so amazing isn't he. And you know all the producers we constantly were were playing up. How terrific? Evan was and you know you. Don't you're not reading a newspaper these girls you see TV. You're not reading the Internet. You can talk to your family. And so you know the idea on these shows is that you create this this really sort of surreal the environment where the contestants are to believe that Success Equals winning this thing. I mean I'm sure a lot of other producers talk to you about that you know. There's there's a real kind of Method to it we were doing in the dark. We were figuring it out. I've never done a show like this and We were just kind out of bumbling through it. How often were the women sort of processing that like? I don't really like this guy but I know this is a great opportunity the need for me. How can I stay in this game? Can I make it through. Because I know in the end it will propel me somewhere. Did you get get a sense that there were a lot of women that were kind of caught in that spot and if so how did you kind of keep them on course because in the end you really want somebody study to be at the end of this thinking that they want to be with him. Yeah absolutely I think it's human nature or you know as the field gets whittled down the people who are still there get more and more into it. Yeah so you see it on all these shows you know they might start Out there like no I just signed up for this and then when they think that they have a chance of winning they take it more and more seriously so as the field narrowed down it it get get it becomes very very serious girls. I think I mean listen. It was a long time ago But you know they offered to take it a lot more seriously. Do you think that there were women that were let go and thought thank God i. I'm glad I didn't have to be in the end of this and have to make a real decision. Oh I think so I think so I mean he. He was not a delight to be around. And you know. You're sorry Evan. If you're listening to this but I don't think he'll argue with me. That was not the best forty days of your life. And you know you're in this castle in the middle look nowhere and like the castle like not beautiful inside like it was a lot et cetera. Thing and you don't really get to do anything until we take you out on a date with him and so it's really boring And so I think a lot of them were like. Oh finally but of course you don't let them leave because they were going to go home and the a lot of you know there's a lot of nondisclosures and that's a whole oh simple thing But yes I think I think there were plenty of girls who were like. Get me out here for sure. So let's talk about the physical part of the show show like the actual making out no of course runner up. Sarah closer received notoriety when the media reported that during the course of the show she had appeared in bondage videos while while attending law school. I'm sure none of you knew that beforehand Or I'm assuming that you didn't know that beforehand and then there was a scene from the show that implied that they had had kind of made out heavy on a walk together and she claim that nothing actually happened so so two things It was foot fetish videos to make it even more salacious That that she was found to have don and no we had no idea right like Google it. You just wasn't that easy to find all this stuff out about people and we found out in the process when the press revealed revealed it So about that scene in the woods it was funny. I was at a discovery. You know the channel Discovery Big Producers Party a couple of years ago and This reporter came up to me and said Ed I said I'm Liz Bronstein and he. He introduced himself and I introduced myself and he said I know who you are. I have two questions for you. He's like I and he brought up the scene from jockeys which was so obscure and he figured out the tiniest cheat that we had done in a race. Where like you know jockey hadn't been in the race and we had implied imply the jockey was in the race and and I was like you're right? I mean you notice that you're absolutely right that that was a bit of achieve and then he said and I got I didn't know about the scene in the woods is also eighteen years ago like I've got no so here's the deal with seen in the woods. I kept saying to all of them to Evan. And all of the women do not run away from us. Do not take your microphones off like you guys all signed up for this like you know you're in this with us like when you let us film things then we see the reality but if you run away then you know. We don't know what happened so just don't do it and of course they did it But they forgot to take their mics off. So there's so thrilled that they managed to outrun. You know cameramen looking gigantic cameras. But we still have their mikes so you know it was this thing where at the time fine. We will really bummed out like I can remember being in the control room and it was this big crisis and evidence. Sarah lost the cameraman or like. Oh my God going to do. And he's going to be a great scene and we were all really glum and you had to give them a talking to and And then we were at it and you know here we have the the shot where they they run away from the cameraman and you see them disappear into the woods and and then audio just kept playing and I was like like wait. I've got play. Wait what what I was like you guys. Let's just lower this audio If we're doing a ROM com and we were You Know Hell. Let's whatever we think we're hearing let's just lower third at your probably excited because other point no one really wanted to make out with them so it's probably like finally someone's actually into the sky we we gotta show now exactly so I was the juiciest pick up for sure so we ended up choosing this woman named Zora now. Oh she seemed like snow white like a somebody who was a saint that like rocked babies to sleep. was that impression correct. She was heaven sent. We couldn't believe our law. She was exactly that she couldn't have been kinder or sweeter or more genuine and she really liked him like she genuinely genuinely felt a connection with him and You know here. It was dispersed sort of classic. You know the blonde and the Brunette and you know one. One is pure as a driven snow one is kind of conniving and did fetish porn which we didn't find out so later And in fact there was this one. We see where Zora was out in the woods. I think it can remember. And she was sitting under a tree and she just so Oh snow white ish and you wouldn't believe how rigging sweet and Nice and scroll was. I was like you know what let's get. Some animated birds in having housing land on her shoulder like she is now and we literally did that Just because it was funny like she was such a you know so Exactly what you wanted her to be. And it was very surreal whole Because you know you can't plan that kind of stuff you can hope or it but then it just sort of happens you know. I mean he picks them. I'm for real so well. The issue was like that absolutely lovely. The show was so successful it had an average of thirty four point. Six six million viewers tuning into the season. One finale can you believe that I mean that those numbers are unbelievable crazy rate so we shot the show rap like right before Thanksgiving we get back. I mean it was the most exhaustive awesome. I've ever been and I'm just laying on the couch watching television and and you know we think we're going to air and like March or April. Maybe this summer and I'm lying on the couch and it says is Joe millionaire premiering January second. I was like well. That's what we need it for January. The second I call Mike. I'm like Mike I thought we weren't premiering until the spring and he was like nope. Change my mom. We're putting you on right away. You got great stuff. And so we worked around the clock to edit that show I mean I have. I worked so many hours that I had to have a day day assistant on the night. Wow because we had so little time You know to get through all that footage and and and and craft that show so we were delivering episodes as they were airing unbelievable. Vive really didn't and you're working around the clock so we didn't really know everything that was going on about like the Saturday night live skit. I've never seen about it but like we were you're in this bubble of of post production and You know and then and then the finale airs and then you know you sleep for a month and so so Yeah we KINDA KINDA missed it. I mean there was a point. We're drinking so much coffee. I got really obsessed with the coffee. Mate Hazelnut creamer and I started calling it crack cocaine because the only thing that could keep me going and I remember saying to like a production assistant just like I need you to get any more cocaine and they were like. They went to the line for this narrow problem. And they're like no she meant coffee mate. For God's sake they get her. The coffee made so yeah. It was It was really crazy and we We work we were through it so he chooses Zora and the and end they split one million dollars. Obviously the relationship did not last he goes back to contracting in Orange County. California on like we're in the world is Zora ago. Do we know so. She became a spokesperson for weight watchers. Wow she didn't like weightlifters commercials you can find them on the Internet. Yeah and then I think she got married and let let us we life. I don't know and then Sarah did playboy. Of course she did of course and then he just disappeared off. The face of era just never did interviews after that she did a lot of really really angry interviews and And then playboy which I had framed on my office forever And then I don't know what happened to her. Yeah I don't know what's the one thing that you wish made it to the show that we never got to see So we thought about shooting this scene after Oscar it was all over and we never did So the whole concept apt. Was You win a million dollars and believe me like trying to write the explanation of why you got a million dollars for being on the show with like a lot of like fancy footwork like because magic exists in love is magic and magic is here. And here's a million dollars. I was like we giving them money. Running right And so but we you know it's it's a game show and so you know her. FCC Regulations You have to have a lot of rules in in place and so we had a lot of rules in place and one of the rules that have never knew. Is that nobody. Nobody has if if at the end of the show he says to her. Meet me at the search. There was it was like a horse. Stable meet me at the church and If you still want me now that you know actually construction worker and I'm not a millionaire. If you still like me. Meet me the church at noon. And so then he's waiting and then of course she does meet him and the oldest magical stuff happen but if she had not shown up he would've gotten the whole million. Oh Yeah Yeah Yeah. I don't know it was pretty darn great the way that it ended. I mean I think it's one of the greatest shows that ever was i. I can't tell you how many people still talk about it. I mean it's just such a great concept and g you look back and just think thank God I was part of that because what an experience Yeah I mean it was one of those released of Surreal And it was. It was one of those like sort of like reatives tumbles that you take you know there were so many creative risks that that I got to take on that show partly because it was a a genre that was so new and it was so inexpensive expensive To shoot these reality shows compared to all the scripted shows that that all these networks had on right like we were like Simba full of money and so we didn't have a ton of oversight plus. This show was a big secret right so really very few people knew what was happening But still so you know we were with these low budget shows and Mike are now with always willing to take a ton of great abreast. And you know we had this host to just like wasn't a great and it wasn't really working with her and One of the things that we decided ahead of time was like I haven't needs a butler like we need more things to make him see wealthy because he just wasn't going to be pulling that off so I went to like butlers dot com. Tom and we found like a butler. And we just hired him and he was so good. Yeah really charming. And so after we finished in the show I had this idea Eh. We could like really play up the comedy and make it almost like a masterpiece theatre deiter booth and so I went shell who I worked for and I said okay I have this totally crazy idea put paw aw in front of a fireplace. A snifter liquor and he's swirling it and we open and close every show with him kind of like giving us very funny overview overview and. He was like that sounds insane. I was like I know. It's like either really brilliant or really awful but like price sit out like ten grand found this place in Pasadena we can shoot them all at once like bought me money like let's just give it a shot because why not and so we when we shop these crazy wraparound with Butler and then we re cut the show you know to make him a much bigger character than he was at the time he was just meant to sort bring messages in and out and You know you look at today and it's like this crazy bananas thing where there's some like Butler in front of a fire opening and closing the show. I mean it. It's very surreal and so much fun. And and that's what I love the most if you got to kind kind of take these crazy risks and subtitle people running through the woods and have you know birds land on or shoulder because she was so sweet and You know kind of make this really out of the box Hamady where nobody really expected a comedy you know. I think my goal was like if people tune in and they think that they're going to see that women are gold diggers and instead we we make fun of the Bachelor we booth it and and we you know we make at this comedy but with a lot of heart at its core And so yeah it was was well. I can't tell you how much I appreciate. You telling me all these stories because it takes me right back to two thousand three watching it. It was such Gotcha great show. I'm I'm sure that you look back and think that was like three minutes ago but like that show deserves serves the the trophy of all trophies. Very well done and again. I appreciate your time if People Wanna learn more about you and then the projects. So you've worked on. Where can they Look look that up Well I built a website. Liz Bronstein DOT COM. And they go there. There's a couple of clips of the different shows I've done since then and Yeah let's DOT com. Thank you so much I appreciate. She did yeah. Thank you and thank you for doing this. Really Cool podcast. I've listened to a bunch of episodes. And you're you're a great interviewer and and it's so great having somebody can and dive into the history of this really fun genre. Jimmy Taylor is an actor comic and host and I have groped him into watching a new show on. TLC It's called unpolished which focuses on the colorful personalities of the women who own run the Trendy Long Island Salon Martone martone Jamie welcome to the show. Thanks for having me and Roped in is probably the term. I believe I was roped into watch that show. This show is about Lexi martone nail artist. Her sister Bria. WHO's the hair color is makeup artist or their mother? Jennifer works the Front Desk and Foxy Grandmother. Grandmother other works as a hairstylist at the salon. How much did you know about this show before I asked you honestly I never heard of it and I was certain certain it was actually a real show? I thought maybe you were punking me and it was just going to be like I would open it and then it was going to be a virus that attacked my computer. Computer never heard well so Lexi does nails at the salon and not just manicured. She turns nails into works of art. She can work with any theme mm-hmm and turn fingerprints into fabulous showpieces. Were you surprised at the artistry that one can do with nails and not just nails is pretty much talons. Yes I I mean should I should I tip it I I really love love this woman. I've actually really like the show so like ten minutes into the show. I yelled for my wife and I was like you have to come see. This is actually. You would love this show. This was it was really once. I saw her paint the nails. I was like Oh hold on. This woman uber talented she. She paints a picture of a woman Sonogram on the nail and it is dead image. It's like spot. It's like one of those people do paintings on rice. We're like did that. Just paint the Mona Lisa on a kernel of rice. Nice and I. I was like so impressed right out of the chute kind of drawn in immediately so she says that she that art helped her overcome pass struggles weight and low self esteem and after placing second in an upcoming nail artists competition. That are confidence grew. She Lost Weight and Turner Talent and passion for Nail Art into a successful business. I don't know if she's charging enough for these nails. I looked it up. It looks like a manicure costs about one hundred and seventy five dollars now. I don't understand first off why somebody would wanna put that money into nails. Went Nail Polish basically chips off in a week unless you get a Gel manicure. So that's quite a bit of money and I don't know how you could do things like cleaning up the counter or type or put clothing on with talons. Sounds that long. I do know that the longer when she talks about the fact that they pop pop up 'cause she puts she actually for the musician girl she he creates A boombox that make sound and a rotating disco ball. That has a motor on. Like you told somebody that was your nails thing. I honestly did wonder and marketing way. More expensive actually be thousands of dollars to get the nails with the motor and stuff in it but yeah like the manicure Sir alone I would. I would hate her talent I also she finished second. Where's the girl who finished? I I mean you must be the most amazing artist of all time because I was actually truly impressed and you know. And then all of a sudden she kind of drags the rest of the family into of this show because the sister. She's like oh I tell her hair and They go with the cut it she goes. I mean I theoretically I can cut. I know how to work. Works Scissors from my real talent is color. And then they you know every now and then they cut the hair coloring and girls hair with some crazy rainbow which looks great. But you're like yeah it get it get it girl who's actually truly talented as an artist now in addition to the show. They've got soksi grandma. They've got the father. What did did you think about one? The lifestyle this family and to the ancillary characters like the grandmother and RIAs fiance. Fox's grandma's awesome. I would love to have seen her reality show and she was like twenty one. She would've been it would've been insane. It would have been like in the late forties the fifties and you know like she would be like she would have slept with. Elvis like Elvis would have done a Gig Nassau Coliseum on Long Island and foxy grandma. Banged Elvis like. That would have been her life. She was cool. I liked her big my I I mean I love them all. I really enjoyed the show. Big Big Mike At least on a diet or he's not gonna live through season three. He's I mean he's pretty heavy and can barely breathe but they are obviously extremely extremely well off long before she started a business because the home is I mean although it's it decorated like a scene out of Goodfellas a The home is huge and and gorgeous. I don't know where it is now. But it's it's definitely big. Mike make some money right. I don't know where the money came from. Got Big Mike you know I. I don't know if he's GonNa be with Mauve but in big might get some money and he's also seems like the nicest guy chart so I liked him. I I do too okay. You also host haunted live on travel channel. I have to know what you think about about this whole paranormal world. So how did you get involved in this and has it changed your perspective on the paranormal It's a great story I so I'm a former Navy lieutenant. I went to school on a rocky scholarship at Boston. University and became lieutenant after my boys Discovery reached out they the American Heroes Channel. which was the old military channel they were doing a show called America facts versus fiction and I ended up hosting? Ah I love it. It's about history And it was on the American Heroes Channel it ran for four seasons. They're still in constant play on television so they were doing doing. I didn't really know travel channels under the umbrella of discovery. Discovery by the way is an amazing network so many channels discovery and under scripts and they make fantastic television a little time passes. I'm working on Tacoma. FD This comedy. Show on Tru. And I get this call. And they're like. Hey Hey we have this show called haunted live you liked to fly to Nashville tomorrow and host. That and I was like absolutely I would love to do that and so I go. I had no idea. The travel channel was basically the paranormal network. And I wasn't really familiar with that world so I flied Nashville and I work with the tendency rate chases and we'd be you liked and episodes of this go setting show and I'm indoctrinated into crazy world of the paranormal and ghost hunting and they are so much fun and I. They all had experiences a kid. And we've all kind of handles like rookie experiences in the house. Where like I feel like it'd been here? I see something and they all had a crazy stories. And so these guys go ghost and again I was basically the host so I'm not a ghost hunter. I'm the ghost hunters conduit to the audience. So I'm really just the host guy who does it so we did that for the whole season and then this past season they weren't they say we're not going to do a whole season of this but October is basically ghost tober on on travel channel. Would you come host a superstar ghost hunting events in Salem Massachusetts. Four four hour. Oh and by the way the shows were live line goes pun on the travel channel. Friday night at eight o'clock so I flied Salem Massachusetts this Catholics over and I do a four hour live Goes Time where I am. Not just the host really. Everyone else is in the house hosting. I'm in front of the John Proctor. After House who was one of the people who was hanging during the sandwich trial so they had all this celebrity ghost hunters Jack. Osbourne Portal's from Hell All their different shows does came in. And then I was just the central hub. Lie Online television and I would throw to. Let's go back to Jack in the factor house. Let's go down into jail. Oh we're so and so was killed. Let's go back to where the witches were you. The jury trial was held and stuff so but it was four hours of live television and it was pretty crazy. Will you ever watch unpolished again. and I'm surfing. I would totally stop and check in on the characters characters I did. We talked about this when I watched it. I told you that you know it's a reality show. And we're supposed to be following their life and stuff but it just it. He caught me off guard. That the sister's boyfriend who she's been dating for eight years happens to propose on the same day they're shooting the pilot so I I like the show I I actually probably would watch it again. But my favorite part of it was the artwork that she did on the nails more than anything so I thought she was Uber. Talented guber talented. So where can people track you down and tell them about your podcast. I'm standup and always been autobiographical. And I have a six year old and a four year. Oh and so I started this kind of it wasn't started deliberately to kind of blow up this way but it's the dabbling you'd springsteen fan based on the badlands and so we made the dad land and so there's a facebook group is a private group just for DADS who want to get away from their wives. Ask The question and then we kinda commuting. It's funny how many women tried to get into the dads group and I'm like yeah. You can't just do. But the data lands page where we share all kinds of parenting material and in that we have the Gatland. podcast where I interview you know. We started with Dad's but honestly honestly dad got boring so I started bringing on loans and people without kids because it was great to hear all sides of the argument. Well thank you Iraq Star. Thanks for having me. I want to thank my guest this week. I'm Jamie Taylor and Liz Bronstein. Remember you've got to go to the facebook group go to reality life with Kate. KC in the search button on facebook because there have been so so much. There's been so much scoop this week in that group. I cannot even tell you. And you're missing out you gotta jump in. I've got a patriot. Page P. A. T. R. E. O. N.. Dot Dot Com backslash Casey. I've got some really interesting secret of stories that you will enjoy book reviews and other other show reviews and also you can follow me on twitter at at Cape Casey. My instagram is at Casey C.. A. Please send me known if you think thank you would make a great guests for the show. Tell me the show that you're watching y you love it and why you'd be a great guest or maybe there's somebody that you know who you think hilarious and would be a great gas for the show to as always. I'm hoping that you'll leave me a five star review on itunes and have a great weekend

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How Dyarubbin became the crucible of a colony

"This is an ABC podcast. The few years after the establishment of a colony on Sydney cove. British explorers traveled a little bit further north up the coast. And they found another. Majestic inlet. That they named the Hawkesbury River. This winding river land is I think one of the most beautiful places in the whole world. Excited colonists described it as the Nile of New South Wales. More exploration revealed that the Hawks Hawkesbury loops around to connect to the Napoleon wrva which runs to the west of Sydney. Within a few years emancipated convicts and soldiers began to settle along the river and grow crops and small allotments in the rich river soil. The land was so fertile and so achingly. Lovely. It's hardly surprising that they were a great many of original people. Already living there. They had their own name for the river which was to Robin. Chris Collins is an Australian historian and grace's fascinated by this place and its history. She thinks that most of the stories we tell ourselves about this time. And of the encounter between the original inhabitants and the newcomers are either slightly wrong or totally wrong. Crisis. Written a fascinating book called people of the river. Lost Worlds of hilly. Australia. Richard like I said, you think many of the assumptions that a lot of people have about early, Sydney just plain wrong. Side. I think because we grow up and generations before US grew up with the mythology of convict Stralia as a place of terra of chains of lashing of people being totally subjected to authority, and they just assumptions that the colony was a dumping ground that hadn't been thought out very well that everybody starved. To the point where some historians decided, it couldn't have been that it must have been something about trade or getting. Materials for sales and things like that. But what's amazing is if you actually just read the records, the answer is staring you in the face. It was a colony four convicts for people who had been convicted of crimes in. England in the UK. Desperate to find some way to send them off to the American war of independence, and this is this is what they came up with and this is in in the planning of James Mantra and it's also in a number of other documents and it's also in Governor Phillip's instructions he was to make sure that the colony was established and then he was to give expired convicts thirty. Acres of land with extra land if you had a wife and children that was the plan and the other thing that bears this out is that a lot of what Philip was doing in those four years he was establishing those farms trying to find the soil going on explorations as you just described on all the way out broken bay and into the Hawkesbury people marching overland and up. The paramedic they were looking for soils that could support farms and that's actually what happened and it was successful. So Sydney cove was never intended to be this kind of punishment gulag not like Norfolk island eventually became Sumika was intended to be a place where what convicts could be reformed and live out their lives. Yes. That's true. We're going to make a new society in Botany Bay. As the old songs and ballads that said that and Sydney itself, it wasn't supposed to be an urban society because that's what started all these crime problems in the first place that was meant to be a rural simple self supporting community and providing enough food for further boatloads of convicts that would be sent out. So it had kind of rough logic to it wasn't meant to be fun. It wasn't made to be a picnic. It was meant to be harsh and as you said, it was meant to reform people but you can imagine these people who had been arrested been in jail billion hulks many in poor health not only did they health return but they would you know if they kept their nose clean got thirty acres of land, which is well beyond what any? person in that state of life back in England would have received. There wasn't enough land anyway, and now we're taking away the comments she grows for one of these prisoners who've been living in these filthy hill halls in Hulk's London destroyed your even seem like a paradise for some of these prisoners I think for some. Yes. We can't ever discount the Tara and the pain of being kicked out of your own country separated for evaluate told forever from your skin and your friends and you're familiar latte you're familiar with circles. But. A lot of these people had moved already and they kind of knew the Cook voyages which were very famous vaguely where where Ustralia was it would have been terrifying. But when they got here, they have certainly loved the climate and they couldn't believe how much land seemed to be unearned. Of course, it was owned and occupied and maintained, but to them, it was like. This vast areas of untouched. Bush lead lack. They're all common that they'd lost in England and there's also a spiritual dimension to this of you go through this voyage, which is like a deaths like virtual death. You leave everything behind and you start you laugh you're actually reborn in a new country and you have a chance at redemption and I think the ones who survived the ones who? Succeeded even in small way soul the ACA they lives in that way. So you followed the story around this part that's now call the Hawks Screen Opinion River which should've loops around from that entrance and broken by north of Sydney and loops right around I was up there just a couple of weeks ago and is so heavenly up there s so stunning and large. What now? Karonga national. Pack. Why why have you chosen to tell the story that part of very early modernist radio? Oh Gosh. I'd be joined to the Hawkesbury ever seen size saw the massive cliffs it at Wise Men's ferry. I was doing my ma work on the Great North Road, which was a convict built road scale does massive cliffs and hadn't really encountered the river before but there's something about it that I never forgot your it costs spell basically, and so I always had that in the back of my mind but later became really interested in the other landscapes are the. Hawkesbury, which are the alluvial plains, the very fertile flatlands which border the river on both sides further upstream. So down where you're talking about is very much sandstone countries, chlorophyll vegetation. But as you move further up the river, the IT widens the the channel widens and there are these beautiful flood plains and that is what attracted those first settlers because the convicts. Because they heard stories about it from those first explorations and they knew enough to know that those are the sorts of soils which could grow and support crops easily and they wouldn't have to work so hard why are you interested in particularly from a historical point of view? Well, it follows on from the realization that this was meant to a a rural self supporting colony that was the plan but because it is a an agricultural experiment and a human experiment and also painel experiment, these are after all convicts I wanted to follow through and what actually happened when the experiment was putting into practice and what was it like for the people themselves what was it like for them to encounter this particular types vegetation the bush lands on the river. And of course, we can't forget that this experiment however interesting benign or not benign was predicated on aboriginal dispossession that's thorn in his story. That is the wound at the heart of the story because whatever whatever that convicts in their children made of their lives here, which is an epic story in itself. That was predicated on the dispossession and banishment and suffering of average people. So I wanted to know how that unfolded as well on the ground and from an emotional cultural point of view not just. Statistics about deaths or battle strategies and things like that. How did actually unfold? How did people feel when they realized? What set the people when they realized date actually invited other people's country. Because they did know and they had to find ways of dealing with it. So that's why interested from a historical point of view. But I'm also very interested in reaching out away from historical documents and into other knowledge is that we have, for instance apologies. So many historians say you know the Bush? Well, what do you actually main by the Bush this thirty five different vegetation communities in the Sydney Basin alone, and it need to know which vegetation these people are encountering. So I had to read a lot of ecological work which was amazing and geology and soil science contacted all the experts in those fields and I learned a lot I. Had to make up a glossary of terms because I didn't understand any of them but once I knew all that stuff, I could reconstruct the country that the settlers were coming into and also it helped me understand what the original landscape had been like because we're actually talking about two landscapes. One of Lang, the other the original landscape doesn't disappear. It's still there. It's still there decades later it's still there today. So you have to kind of develop a double vision for this country. So tell me about this great discovery that you might one die in the Mitchell library. My great discovery. So one day I was looking in the diary of a Reverend mcgarvy, Ribbon John Mugabe who had arrived in the eighteen twenties become the incumbent at Pitt Tom these straight out from Scotland and straight out of Reverend College and he was pretty young. Anyway I was zooming through couldn't find very much thought. This guy's not giving me anything. And then. The most amazing thing happened I scrawled on and I came to. A list of place names. For the Hawks free and they were in every language and it was headed native names for places along the Hawkesbury and there they all were lined up neatly written in ink with a pencil interspersed where he added more I nearly fell off my I swear because that sort of thing is unbelievable. I hadn't had. When. You're trying to recreate an average in a landscape and what it must have looked like and felt like and what people must have thought about it. It's really hard to do that. If you don't know the names of places, place names are. Culturally valuable artifacts in themselves. So rich surrogate I was incredibly stand. So having these place names recorded by this reverend mcgarvy were you able to map those place names mentioned in this document onto the existing maps? We have the area well, that's the next thing I noticed about the list that Mugabe had helpfully included statelets thumbs like the names of settlers and I recognize them all because I know who lie and also creeks and lagoons and some of the land landmarks like mountains, and after I got my breath back I realized that these names must of them could possibly be reinstated on the map they could possibly come into common use again. And just my yeah my brain was exploding basically and so I, thought about that for a long while and then I contacted some aboriginal women from Dr. Custodians who I work within the Pasta and Austin if they'd be interested in a collaborative project with me restoring these names as part of a larger project recovering the original history and culture of the river and it's just opened my eyes to what can be recovered if you're lucky enough to have this information and yes, we've been able to relocate at least six nine. Thousand Nine, hundred on the map hasn't been released yet. That's the next project. That's what I'm working on now. So Gross Hell Long. Then what does the ACA archaeological record tell us about how long people have been living in the Hawk spreen opinion region? Yes. Well, this was one of my main questions because how can you stop the story if you don't know where it starts Anoxia logist father Eugene Stockton had found a couple chopper deep in the growls at cuss array, which is actually on an opinion what is it called? A knife of. Kabul. So that's a large large pebble and this one. This particular one has three chips take trips taken off it I located it again, it's in the McLean museum. It's a very simple thing it seems to be simple but at the time they were very early dates for this I think the first date was forty thousand years, which is one of the was at the time one of the oldest in Australia. The occupation of the Sydney region go back to the Pleistocene. That's amazing and that all. So, forty thousand years you say. At the beginning but over the next ten or fifteen years, there were more tests, soil tests using new procedures for finding the dates and in two thousand and four I. Think it was there when you dates that showed that the rock layer where these cobbled chopper came from was laid down fifty thousand years ago by the river because they can tell you know the various phases of win the river lays down at scrambles. This'll be one of the biggest artists oldest affects. I mean, we see she doesn't use the moment. Don't don't we in some of the oldest parts of Australia for average and lock, you can see the land. So they were suggested I suppose what a great many aboriginal people living all that way back in that part of. It doesn't tell us much except it's a couple of Java and there were humans there. But that's the message they were there before the last ice age. So then we we have to imagine aboriginal people living there through that ice age living in the Blue Mountains through the ice age it's. insufferably called, and then it became in the Holocene era a lot warmer and wetter for a thousand years. I'm imagining that would have attracted quite a few more people to the area once it became much more temperate. Yes. Some of the information we have looking right across the period seems to suggest there's a huge rise for the hall of fame in that warm wet warm wetter climate, and that's when you get a lot more artifacts a lot more variety and we can extrapolate from that to people using more kinds of food and using it in different ways and. Undoubtedly coming up with even more complex ways of seeing world and the spirituality which is immensely complex and sees the world as supernatural as everything has a meaning. Everything has a spiritual meaning. Nothing happens for nothing you rather though they found grinding stones and Yelm sticks that suggest like a great variety of food sources. The food is abundant life must have been pretty good one can only imagine I suppose that. Yeah. So it's a long span of time and I you know they were a periods where got drier again and dry and colder, and then know population shrinks and. They have to go further to forage for more food. That's a constant thing not not that people were wholly dependent on environment, but it did have a huge impact, and then of course, you have rising levels, which would have drowned a lot of country a lot of people's country and would have had to move on to other people's countries so. That's a story we still need to look at. If we can find the evidence must have happened. The first fleet is arrived in seventeen, ninety eight and within a few years, governor? Philip and other British officers starting to explore up into the Hawk spring, the Peon area north and west of the Sydney cove settlements. What do we know about the early interactions between those officers and the aboriginal people of the area? These particular officers and Philippine especially want to show that they're friendly. Now, there's always the black side of that. Of course is it a friendly but they wanted they wanted to take land nicely and you can't dispossessed people. Nicely. So that was the clear take your land and. Let's be gentleman about this yellow. Actually, it's quite bizarre really when you think about it, but that's what they believed. You know they're in lightened men and they thought they could be nice and give presents and be conned, and the plan was to try and persuade, and then kidnap some aboriginal people to come and live with them. So they could show them the benefits of civilization and those people could be invoiced to go back into communities and say. Look they're great and they're going to be. Nas. Twists and we just have to be civilized now I know it sounds ridiculous. But that's what that's how they thought. The thing I didn't realize when they got here was that these people that like this thirty five at least different aboriginal groups in the Sydney region, and so they didn't realize that every time you made a new group had to do it all again to dance and exchange presents and. Also, showed them how guns worked. That was always very important because that was the on global glove here we're going to be presents. Lovely people will dance with you and Oh, by the way we have these guns and we can kill you. So that's mostly what they did but the other thing they used to do and this is understandable. They didn't have any idea of aboriginal protocols. Protocols a very important is still very important in aboriginal society. You don't bowl up to someone kidnapped them. You have to wait to be invited and you have to be introduced properly, and so that's very typical of the first contracts where they will just find a poor woman with her children in the Bush somewhere say on the Macdonald River and CEO Hollow have some have some steel. And she's of course terrified and she runs for live because I haven't been introduced. They look like monsters they sound with they they smell. So most of those early contacts are a bit like that. Until they start to make people who are more go between type people, the brave people who face the strangers doesn't matter how terrified they are. They faced the strangers and they they communicate with them. They learn in names. Name learning is very, very important, average, Pico pickup up English very quickly, and finally the greatest meeting of all is in seventeen ninety, one way Philip and he's huge party of forty. Come up the river. And they can't find anyone to mate that they know their aboriginal people there. There's lots of people there and they've got colby in invalid dairy with coastal Maine call the and Bella dairy have no idea where they up because they from the coast but they realized these guys are lumbering into dangerous territory and it seems it seems from the recall that Koby has somehow contacted the important people in the local groups and have arranged a meeting and that's when you have the I. Seriously important meeting with Berry and Yellow Mindy, and that's a very successful mating and it's it's a triple mating because it's not only the invaders all the Europeans meeting these local people, these local correggio doctors it's the coastal men meeting the inland men as well for the first time. So so triangular meeting and I they can't understand each other but then they figure out a shit language by the end of the night the Karaji have healed call old war wound and they're all sitting around the fire telling stories about Sydney and para matter and stories of love conquest and other things like that, and then they all lie down around the fire and sleep together. Told me about one of the colleagues Wilson John Wells. Doesn't he's amazing. He's an amazing character that we've should know more about. We don't actually know much about him the underwear while he was still under sentence we know he was a good shot with a gun, but the reason we don't know anything about it was because he kept his nose clean he didn't cross didn't he didn't do anything wrong. So he's not regarded anyway much. So he just arrives and then some years later he actually finishes his sentence without era. That's when he leaves to go and live with the original people on the river. How did he convince to take him in? Well, I think I, think see this before we get to that is a really interesting question. Why did he go there and how did he get them to let him in? I think he was with the group of probably with Phillips Potty because he was quite a good scout in a good shot I think he would have observed what was going on that beautiful not so long ago. I think that kind of less style was attractive to convict men. You didn't have anybody surveilling. You didn't have to work for the government. It was freedom. It was all exciting in hunting in there was an attractive speak to it and he must have been quite a talker and quite convincing. So he made his way out to the Hawk and and. went to to see the local tribe and introduced himself as the dead son of one of the older aboriginal women. And so this was made enormous fan of in some of the David Collins is the CAN. You know what? A Shalatin and how Celia, the average people for believing him. But you never know culture that is into logical way of explaining why someone's there with you. So it makes a place for strangers in Tony's winds. Wonderful words makes the place. There's a reason. There's a supernatural reason why this man is here he's he's used on comeback from the even if you don't recognize him Oh, well, there's the explanation it's a way, but you know they gave him a name and we. And I was looking through a dictionary of language and boy means dead and Bunn means to trick you some just wondering whether. They. I Yeah Right. I. Thought he was quite useful because he may be he brought a musket with him and it seems that later he used him as an envoy to go and speak to the governor and say your people are causing us so much grief. Do something about it. So you could convicts Louis coming into the area around in Hawkesbury ran about seventeen, ninety, four, six years after the founding of Sydney cove. How did they get their? Did they go pin badges up the coast or do they go overland? We now have a managed to actually get to their from Sydney. It's not actually recorded if that had boats the quickest way at that point was to go in a boat, which seems we'd now right because you have to go all the way from Sydney cove out the heads up the coast into broken bay, which could be really treacherous and then find your way up the river and then row all the way or sale all the way to settle. So one of the early settlers was James Roose are Stralia Adam as Tom, Kennedy calls him. He was one of those first band of twenty that went to the Hawkesbury and just, I, think they just went there independently they knew about it the stories about the rich soil it had been just running around like wildfire and he and his Merry Band of men and women. Went there and we don't even know the date sometime early in seventeen ninety, four, possibly late seventeen, ninety three, and they went straight to a place on. The Echo Pitt town bottoms with the trees were wide apart. So it suggests a an area that's been kept open by people using fire. which often happened at creek junctions and south. Southgate junction is right there and they started digging and building Hudson and putting in crops they went setting up these. Great big pastoral stations like John MacArthur eventually would paramedic what would the little allotments like that they set up in that area well, very different from our ideas of modern farm. So there is a stereotype of settlers coming in and fencing everything and everything's name Toddy, and they hate the Bush and they cut it all down and I found a very different story in jade because I had to reconstruct what the forest was like a pot from those open areas it was extremely dense. And huge trees up to sixty meters tall shoes girth of trays was was river flat forest, which is very rare now because it's all being down for farms. So that's why the early settlers went to those areas that were clear because they didn't have to cut down all the trees and they immediately put some crops in the other thing that rejected by of course, with a real reflects which quite flood-prone of course, but the soil, the is so rich dark and a beautiful dachshund alarm. They said, you know you could a potato in an you'd have a crop in three months and these stories just went wild round round, the colony and the phones themselves. As I was saying, these people don't fence they are not. The modern farming people that you think are they sort of pre industrial farmers most of them are from rural areas of England and and and they popping patches small patches maybe. Usually. Listen ten acres of corn and wait and corn flourishes cones not really English crop. They've adapted that from what the cold Indian Cohen from the United States and it flourishes and it's very good protein food but the problem is they're putting it in the same ground. That average people need for this type of crop, which is the Yam and these women's grounds because Yam digging and processing and preparing is women's work. So they're attacking and taking the lands of original women and robbing them of the food they need this type of diet. So immediately, you can see why they were problems. This is conversations was Richard Fidler on ABC. Radio? Here. More conversations anytime on the ABC. Listen APP. Borgo. To ABC dot net dot. Slash conversations. Price at the time seems that both groups of people regarded each other as far off Eileen peoples who looked so different had such different cultural practices. Eight different things lived in different ways had different attitudes to land and all those things. Yet from the distance of what is it one hundred and twenty years or so When you look at the way, the aboriginal people living along the Hawks, bring the pain and the way the convict settlers set up the little allotments along the river where they so very different from our point of view looking back all that way in time such a good question I don't think. I think we've misread those early settlers because we've just projected later settlers free settlers. Characteristics back onto them. So in the first place, how do they live? Well, they live in Bach hots basically. Tense. They don't really spend a lot of time building houses. There are a few settlers go goto the Hawk spree that get a lot of historical attention Diana keen on amassing lots of land and fencing and and putting up fancy houses but most small commas with the ten eyck is a list they live in in slab hut spark huts, we shingle roofs or just crosswords that Ching. And that kind of architecture actually lasts well into the sixties. So it's not entirely impermanent architecture does lust but these people are not interested in showing off their wealth or even getting wealthy could just want a decent life that one enough food and they want to be safe and they want to be free and they love sociability. Does this sound like? crossovers living this kinda pre modern farming life expect back to their own ancestors in. Britain. Known a strident soil yes. When I looked at the way they behave when the comments are threatened. They act like resisting communist back in England, and you know when you look into that history, it goes back six or seven hundred years so. It's not like both coaches aren't deep cultures. These traditions that they'd rural people bring with them and a showing in the way they're behaving a very much like communism that go back I'll just go back into the very earliest times in England. This is arranged time. Isn't it because this time in both Scotland and in Ireland? The authorities are driving people off the land for living locked away these people living on the Hawkesbury these these kind of Tani allotments, this more premodern forms of farming. So so what are the authorities in Sydney make people putting up a bit of a lean to a couple of shingles here and there growing more crops in back and enjoying the life well. Well later on Macquarie's. Slaps far like how could these people live like these really wants to deliver in Q. Cottages with smoking curling out of the Jimmy. The early governess. So relieved that these people have secured the grain supply. This is a fabulous thing because before that they didn't starve but it was always a bit dodgy about win the ships would come this shale soils didn't last very long because weight and Corner Very Nutrient Hungry and so there was with the earliest worst summarily smaller fans very slow and. Very small, very experimental. The Hawkesbury represents these I really successful farming. It's like land runway people stop flooding in by three years. Later I think it's four hundred people on the Hawkesbury the word has got out. So it's it's also a cultural thing stories about this promised land out there and you don't have to work hard and you can live this free life. So the missile, the river for white people is very early as well and I think I think for these people who come from a background of commenting, which was still going in the lighting century but it was under threat from enclosure just as you say, and then you have the highland clearances later. Those people not only lived in that pre industrial way just cultivating a little bit far djing in a lot of the forests for making their living fishing hunting things like that. That's exactly how they settlers left. Saying that the they sold themselves these these new colonists they saw themselves as small firms living as uneasy neighbors of the original people or as their dispossesses. I think they knew that were dispossesses. They also a lot of them also knew very dangerous to have his enemies because that who ruthless sir, a lot of smaller settlers shared their corn crops with aboriginal people who would turn up with in on mess with basket will not basu baskets, baskets and blankets when the had them. And just take the cone because that was the fruit of the land and they had arrived to it. So some settlers at. Fine I don't WanNa get speed and have my burnt down. All my children killed, take what you want. But of course, some settlers wouldn't accept that they asserted their right to the land. All the settlers felt the head right to the land that they are. You have to get with the original people or you shot them basically, and that's what happened and there was some dreadful atrocities usually spiralling from one tack to multiple attack and the average people fought ferociously to get rid of these people and they had all these strategies that they used. They'd they'd pick off the the people on the father's doubt farms they would do payback. So if they lost people, they would pay back on somebody else. They would avoid people with guns but kill somebody else because guilt is commune on Aboriginal Culture. So if you're part of that group, then you can pay the price. On both sides. And what happened was it would spiral and get worse and worse and worse, and finally what happened is the governor would send in the military and there would be massacres and massacres often took the the people who couldn't run fast enough. So the women and the children and the old people. So and this just kept happening in three terrible pulses between seventeen, ninety, four and. Eighteen sixteen when it was finally extinguished by this final solution I think I would call it this concept that the new settlers head, which is this is my land, not your land, which we know was quite eilly concept to the aboriginal people I wonder if you say that these two deeply and profoundly conflicting ideas meant that Vanek conflict was therefore inevitable between the two peoples. That's the question. Isn't it wasn't inevitable I. Think it's inevitable. Where people aggressively use guns rather than fences to keep people off the property they are going to get. Payback or the neighbors are going to get payback. So they went very popular most people just wanted to keep the pace. Sometimes you know governor hunter had to order them to go to each other's aid when they're attacked. And that. What does that suggest it suggests okay if we just look away, maybe pick on us because it was a serious threat and I don't know that the resistance and the success of the resistance has been properly recognized in the accounts of frontier history. Often it's the average when people are only victims and were victims of course, but they also fought back and at one point they were extremely successful as for could they worked it out? Well, if everybody had the corn, maybe because aboriginal people never thought that these people owned the land. They never they never seen it of course, and for the next. At, least eighty years they continued using their country as they had always done as far as they could, which is astonishing to me and very important to understand that ongoing history and that ongoing presence, you know the kept using the cranberry grounds where they could. They made friends with settlers who had important sacred sites on the land. So they could get access, they did everything to stay on country and to Cape up their ceremonies. So there's there is still robberies at the Karolyi ground in Penrith in the eighteen fifties there is still the great burbank sermons which the male initiation ceremonies On the sort of north of the Hawkesbury in the eighteen sixties. So it's just the most amazing cultural resilience and what you've got to remember these people don't see that this land is being actually not there's anymore. It's just that they forced out by fences and guns it's still a land in their mind. So. This is another myth we have to dispel that the aboriginal people the area will like tragic. When it's not true they fought like hell ton. Kill. Zion's where they did actually drive the settlers out with Sackville rage, which is an incredibly important part of the river for all kinds of reasons. But we that that nameless that I that I discovered and I'm working with the dark people on our wonderful linguists Jim Wafer had did the league losses for the words and trump Is the name of sexual rich and it means it means the rainbow move through here. Now, this is a reference to the great l.. called. Growing Gerry on the Hawkesbury and he's the creator ill. So this is this is also highly sacred zone and when you put that together with the ferocity with which they got rid of those settlers in the seventeen ninety s and then attacked them again when they came back in eighteen eighty four. It kind of falls into place, they were protecting their most sacred zone. I can't tell you how I felt when I realized I put those two things together I think we all on our team felt that ulcer. Can give a name to the kind of conflict that was being played at. It was protracted violence employed by both sides. Of course, the other side having guns is it a war or is it a? Is it a kind of a war of terror to be on Tom's I kept thinking like the troubles in? Northern. Ireland as I was reading recant of of the fighting there where there's A. Colonial Authority like this one life looking at imperial authority behind one group of people. Another group of people there's typically violence playing out between communities and one group of people certainly feeling dispossessed in their own in their own country. How do you characterize the nature of that conflict up along the Hawkesbury the in this time? Well, take my cues from what people called it. Then they called it a war. So that's important. I think to understand how people at the time sort I also think it's important to know. To understand the feeling of the unknown that you could be affected anytime. So even if you weren't the F-, the fear was there and you know they would terrifying attacks sometimes. I. Wonder How they stayed really the what the settlers. I think the problem is that today we think of a war in a modern world. So soldiers facing one another in battalions. That wasn't at all what this wall was like because the aboriginal warriors quickly developed. Very good. I. Would call them guerrilla tactics. That's a modern would to be not appropriate, but it does describe the fast effective hit and run damaging rights that they carried out on settlers the soldiers are. Stationed there from seventeen, ninety five and their idea was to march out to non camps. So the longer that settlers were there the more they understood that everyone of geography and I actually think that forced a partial retreat for resistance fighters to the other side of the river where it's much more. If you know that area, it's much more mountainous and rugged slack labyrinths, but even so settlers will learning fast. To forget this idea that settlers didn't know the environment and never learned anything because they learn really fast well, I had to from their point of view. So with the with the warriors, sometimes there's an image of you know brave warriors facing the military but that isn't how I worked at all that would never have worked. They knew the power of guns I avoided redcoats as much as they could. But what they could do was attack isolated settlers don't forget you know there's only one hot on H. Farm and H farm is around thirty acres or less or. Not. Not. That close together. And they would always target the ones that were isolated. They use trickery they pretend to be friendly, and then they'd attack they'd steal lagoons and they worked at how to use them. They had endless developing strategies, and then they worked at how to deal with settlers potties who marched out into the mountains to find him and shoot them. They would ambush them and stop throwing rocks and stones on the Hanes and they will turn tail. So it's it's it's kind of fascinating it's horrible, but it's also fascinating to watch how they work at to fight. and. They're very effective. There must have been a favorite of intense mutual hatred because alongside both these things of course, the white colonists. Abducting children, beheading warriors, and sitting heads back to England. There's massive massacres of the elderly and women and children. As you say, was there an attempt at conciliation from the authorities with the Aboriginal Warriors? Absolutely, yeah. People like King Governor King. He was always he even had a proclamation where that was to. If they were in a situation of conflict, they had to ask the people why they will fighting. And at one point after a severe outbreak which led to a massacre in eighty five where. A couple of exchanges were burnt to death in their hearts and then whole potty led by Andrew Thompson who is now remembered as a hero massacred about eight people at Monday. That's when King asked for the oldest to come and see him and three of them went to see him and they just beautiful said poignant but very powerful statement where they say we've been driven the river, we can't get to the river where food sources are the settlers, shoot us and. Then, they say if you just stop the settlement and leave us to have the review, will we find? We weren't attacked the settlers anymore how about that? which is incredible really and King thinks this is quite just and originally when I looked at it, I thought all he weren't Capeeze promise. But when I actually looked at the land grants after that time, he actually did capeeze promise he didn't grant any more land down the river than they were before that meeting. So. That's interesting. There is a slight Chink Bay for something that could have been different. The problem was, of course that King didn't stay. He was more or less bullied out and he was in poor health and the next governors didn't honor that promise. Overtime, the colonial authorities concluded that they shouldn't bother with diplomacy with original people and that only brutal force would quote unquote. The savages this is an old old logic. He see it again and again with invite us and dispossess people as that you make people Richard and then you feel contempt for their richness but the idea that aboriginal people were aboriginal presence was completely annihilated from the. That's not right either is it oh yeah. That's right this. Is. The last census in there at least seven thousand people average not believing in those local government areas along the river today thousands more across across the Sydney Basin. Yeah, the part of the white mythology and these happens in all settlers. Colonial societies is that Will they're on the way out you know they're going to be around and when they still around what are you doing he is still you shouldn't be you'll part of a pasta that's gone and yet and there was you must be familiar with every lot of be will be familiar with the notion of the dying race and trying to ease the passage out of this world, and then it wasn't helped by Darwinist theories about the survival of the fittest. And yet right through that aboriginal people are surviving their they. Adapting they are finding new ways to be aboriginal, they take on new ideas spiritual deuce at effects they aboriginal them they somehow deal with the fact that the families are broken up in the they wait for their children to come back. And they have had they have a spiritual ways of dealing with what's befallen them to which I think is really important I. Mean we're talking about people for whom spirituality means and culture being the most of anything. That's the most important thing to them. So yeah, there's all kinds of ways was do is I think there's a geography of safe settlers and aggressive ones and they work that out pretty quickly friendships with powerful people are important. So. Sometimes, you can just stay on some large estate owners place, and that is your place, their records of long term friendships with settlers, families down the generations so that that's also true. Local history look reminiscences, record, lots of stuff about every people always derisory and always like, oh, ill the rim wipe them out, but they didn't. So that's also part of the mythology. Oh well, you know Rome got to them so that to me is the most. Arresting story that we can tell and recovering the story is so important because we have to kind of decolonize thinking out of this idea that Oh there was a massacre in there were all killed or oh, they all succumb to disease or yes they all drank themselves to death. All these things are what myths and this is not to take away from the sorrows and the sufferings of original people. Yeah. They they did lose access to the country they didn't leave it but the lost access to vast parts of the country. Seems to me what you've recorded here is a persistent and ongoing failure. To See people as fully human. Yeah that's right I mean it's sad to say but many of those stereotypes are round even if the person is trying to be sympathetic, the non aboriginal person, these people are the most culturally adaptable people. You could ever encounter an interested in new ideas and new things, but only on their terms so I I would attribute survival to that incredible dynamism and the ability to adapt and not lose your culture because the other what narrative is that all once you take on why things you've lost your culture. That ignores the cultural dynamism and the way that people decided to take on new things to survive but also because they were interested in them, that's always the always a big enough and ancient enough to be able to wrap their arms around new ideas and fully enclosed them. Sometimes, you mentioned Elliott, the amazing list of place names that you found in the Mitchell library which has been recovered now. And ongoing project to map them onto the existing places on the map around the Hawks Brain OPEAN. Tell me about this process of renewal and and whether younger Dr People are getting interested in this and excited by this process. Yes they are younger dark paypal as with younger original papal across Australia I think a so proud to be original. It's it's sometimes hard for them to understand that the older generation was so shunned and you know so oppressed that it's hard it was hard them to acknowledge but that's part of history of course and yeah, there are. There's so much enthusiasm for especially language which which this project is part, of course, and the revitalization of language people learning language working on language especially, languages that need to be further reconstructed this. It's like a wave it's a wave of. Interest and excitement and recovery. That's that's rushing across Australia. The moment I think can't come fast enough and I think we should all be on it. If we can mean what I find is most people don't know anything about this stuff. They don't know about massacres they don't know about culture they don't know that there still hundreds of aboriginal sites along River. Not that we can reveal where they are. But to know that those things are still there and their original people still living there and they you know they still follow cultural ways and they're working on language it's undoing. Wrongs of colonization and that's what they WANNA. Do they want to not go back but going forward follow? Their insist is forward. And just strip away all this all these stereotypes and all his colonialism and what I also found, and this is this is something that still goes on all through this contact period and into the nineteenth century. Non, aboriginal people settlers are always asking regional people for stories. They want know the stories the want to know the language, and then what they do is laugh at them. It's such a common thing Oh. Told me a story. Tell me a songs. Tell me what you believe about this, and then they will make fun of them, which is why aboriginal people turned in on themselves and stop telling those stories but they did protest they protested loud and often, and usually it was just dismissed by the authorities and I guess that's what you do when you the most powerful one but it's it's constant is constant stream of protests you're on our land, you've taken our children. Why do you treat us like this? This is our country. So that's a constant stream, and of course, that's what we're hearing today. I think one of the most generous things in the earlier statement of the hot is that there is a space for Mocatta than the the people have made a space for us to reconcile. They don't have to do that. But they've they've laid out a pathway for us to do this and just bowled over by the generosity of that. Hell of you speak with the aggress witnessing story. Thank you so much. Thank you Richard It's been great. You've been listening to a podcast of conversations with Richard Fidler. For. More conversations interviews please go to the website ABC dot net dot edu slash conversations. Discover more great ABC podcasts, Live Radio, and explosives on ABC listen up.

Hawkesbury Sydney England ABC Hawks Sydney cove Australia Bush Hawkesbury River Sydney Aboriginal Warriors US Philip Richard Fidler Mitchell library Richard It Richard John Mugabe Sydney Basin Botany Bay
6th Sunday in Ordinary Time - Simple Steps

Catholic Musings

07:38 min | 9 months ago

6th Sunday in Ordinary Time - Simple Steps

"Catholic musings Catholic gasoline easy. Welcome to Catholic musings for the six Sunday in ordinary time year this Sunday in the following Sunday the seventh Sunday in ordinary time matthew relates. It's six different ways in which Jesus showed how he completes the law. Four of them this Sunday which which ought to do with killing adultery divorce and the taking abodes and to next week around the concept of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and also the idea of loving neighbors and hating one's enemy on one level it would appear that Jesus is asking more of his disciples than the law originally asked so for for example with the first. Jesus says you have learned how it was said to our ancestors you must not kill but I say this to you. Anyone who is angry with his brother will answer for it before the court. If we look at these four this Sunday as if Jesus is asking more of his followers is asking for a higher standard. I think we rather miss the point. He is not asking more from his disciples than the law timmermans instead. Jesus showing how the law can be fulfilled by taking simple steps of preparation. It is like the old saying a stitch in time saves nine and it's an idea which surely must be at the heart of all spiritual discipline. We cannot attain to the higher levels of spirituality without working first of all on the foundations. We need to work the preparation. So let's consider the four instances that we have before us this Sunday. You must not kill it. Seems a fairly reasonable command. But why do people kill. There are very many reasons but one of them is a result of the nurturing of hate of allowing disputes to go unchecked and une dealt twit of allowing situations to escalate. Until it's too late. So how do we prepare ourselves. Serves to the people who do not kill by dealing with our anger by respecting the other not calling them fool or renegade renegade by making peace and working for reconciliation before things spin out of control. Is Jesus asking being more from us. No he simply mapping the pathway to good relationships which prevent the law against killing being contravened the second you must not commit adultery but says Jesus I say this to you if a man looks at a a woman lustfully he has already committed adultery. Is Jesus asking more of his followers. Were No. He's mapping out the easiest pass which prevents the law being broken adultery. Doesn't just happen. It is fed. It is nurtured Richard. It is encouraged by lust. Deal with it at the outset and the law will not be broken. What can the third is interesting and slightly different anyone who divorces his wife must give her a writ of dismissal but says Jesus I say this to you everyone who divorces his wife except for the case of foreign -cation makes her an adulterous? Yes it would seem on first sight that Jesus is not giving a roadmap to prevent the law being broken but in fact he is giving a roadmap roadmap to prevent the other person breaking the law. Don't put another person in the situation of adultery because of an action taken by oneself off do things correctly. Don't put people in an untenable situation and the law will be kept and finally you must not break your oath but must fulfill your oaths to the Lord but says Jesus do not swear it all by heaven all by the Earth or by Jerusalem or by your own head all you need to say is yes if you mean yes and no if you mean no. The preparation is by living a life where the truth is said from the outset and you say what humane yes or no by living that life and being known to be a person who lives a life like that and whose word can be trusted and means what it says it is unnecessary to make an oath and then to put oneself from the perilous position of possibly breaking it. Nothing in today's Gospel asks more of US then. The law requires but Jesus lays down the easy to follow basics which will inevitably ably main that we do live a life where the law is being kept. Try this feel self. You go to confession or make an examination of your conscience. Consider carefully what it was. which led you you to be in a position of sin? What led you to be in a place? I swear you fell short. Consider the reasons why things have gone to that point. And what attitudes and behaviors early on in the road. That would have prevented it happening at all. Thank you for joining me. Jude severe. Today you can find all of our Sunday meditations as well as our rosary and stations of the Cross podcasts at our website right Catholic musings dot org. The website is and will always be free but it does cost us to produce and keep going if you would like to support our witness you can also find a button on the homepage of the website to our patron link. Where for as little as a dollar you can support the work and witness of Catholic musings musings?

Jesus matthew US une Jude Richard
"Beyond Critical" | Pt. 1

Critical Condition: Accounts from One October

14:17 min | 1 year ago

"Beyond Critical" | Pt. 1

"The seconds of the footage are silent I can tell that the cameras perched on the shoulder of Las Vegas Metro Police officer this podcast contains audio from the October one mass shooting on the Las Vegas strip listener discretion is advised the first in dire straits and the October night when their lives intersected Nevada it's the third and final night of the Route Ninety one harvest festival in Jason Aldean is set to headline at nine forty pm and his actions compelled me to explore the story further PM Pacific Time just five minutes after shot ceased at the Route Ninety one harvest festival as watch the first thirty seconds of this footage I'm wondering Las Vegas Metro Police Body Cam footage from the night of October first two thousand seventeen the night of the deadliest mass shooting in US history received panicked calls no money I can hear you now and why is this officer driving over one hundred miles per hour heading north away from the site of the shooting where's he going and who is in the vehicle with him over the past year and a half reporters at the Review Journal have been sorting through hundreds of hours October one two thousand seventeen twenty two thousand people come together for a country music festival in Las Vegas All dene takes the stage and begins his less than a half hour later everything changes in the middle of Jason Aldean's then the audio kitson reporter with the Las Vegas Review Journal this is part one of critical condition a five part series sharing the stories of two Las Vegas police officers a woman Johnson performance gunshots ring out festivalgoers begin to rush toward the exits on the east side of the concert grounds and within moments men one one dispatcher vehicles as the SUV flies pass them in the fast lane an ambulance speeds by in the opposite direction the vehicle speedometer is visible in the shot and the we've sought to understand how the night unfolded and how officers responded the actions they took in the challenges they faced while I was going through title is sitting just above the one hundred mile per hour mark a time stamp in the corner of the footage reads five twenty one am Zulu Time that's ten twenty one teaches you how to apply it to everyday world like for example on the streets okay how to handle people how to handle situations right at the beginning of shift this is Las Vegas Metro police officer Brandon Instrument who moved to Las Vegas shortly before the one October shooting so I grew up immediately started the department's filled training program so the field training program sums up everything that the Metro Academy tie you and there's a second day was October one the beginning of shift ten PM I think the first call came out at ten weeks you because I mean the academy helps you and kind of guide you for the job but when you get out on the street it's a whole different ballgame in northwest Indiana Kinda near Chicago about forty five minutes outside Chicago I was in retail business back home and then one day I just some of this video myself I came across footage from a body camera worn by officer Richard Cole One with the second behind I up and took everything base and joined the department is a big step Brandon graduated from the Police Academy at the end of September twenty seventeen it's like a little bit of like a shock so is nice get a little bit of guidance that's what that field training program is for officer Richard Cole who had been with Las Vegas Metro for about a decade yourself through scenarios he knew what to do the field training program you ride with a field training officer who has quite a bit of experience so he can be them how to apply what they learn in the academy correctly and evaluate them as they go through field training they get a new field training officer every after the initial reports of shots fired came in over the Radio Richard and Brandon left the substation and began driving toward the Route Ninety one harvest festival decibel came out the radio and you could hear the gunshots on the radio over the person talking so as a bit of a shock but everybody everybody heard it and knew exactly what to do it was it was time to go to work three or four weeks brandon and Richard were scheduled to work overnight shift beginning on the evening of October first two thousand seventeen and it was a graveyard shift so we start at ten pm on the street what is so what is filled training look like I mean is that basically just putting into practice the things that he had learned in the academy and you're kind of guiding was Brandon's field training officer or F- Teo Teo and Brandon Ingram was my trainee that night it was his second day only because it's only eight minutes after your shift start so yeah we were still talking until you know someone on the radio heard what was going on here's Kinda sitting around our Sergeant Sergeant Everett he came over to speak with our squad and then that's when I call over the radio shots fired from the route ninety one Brandon Ingram briefing is technically entails. Just what's happened in past couple days any big events nobody talks about it so your briefing at this point I'd imagine bull which was located on the South End of the Las Vegas Strip across from the Mandalay Bay hotel about four miles south of the Convention Center Substation I was driving because sunflower and we don't really know where it's coming from we saw thousands of people running but I I feel like came prepare for everything remember this was only brandon second day on the job just minutes prior he was sitting in a briefing room prepared multiple DSW's or gunshot wounds multiple vehicle Do our briefing at ten pm and we work until suppose working eight in the morning their shift started with a briefing at Las Vegas Metros Convention Center Substation Sense of this was really bad just from the transmissions that were being put out from the overtime officers swing shift officers that were already there on scene in the street coming literally climbing over the fence to get out of the concert venue he took strategic cover behind white utility box when we got there there's Cole the debriefing was really short that day I remember that we only talked for a couple of minutes there is nothing really new to talk about so most of us were just I saw was doing a great job everybody form teams everybody had a task or a job that they were doing so that kind of helped me now I did stick with Richard it appeared to be mass chaos Brandon Eckstrom from my perspective I had no idea what's going on you know when we sign on his job we prepare for things take the second day Richard was one of the first members of law enforcement to arrive on scene that night his experience caught my attention him through those things or is that it's real world it's real world experience there in phases so they go out there and we should we're kind of getting a lot of confusing

Las Vegas Metros Convention Ce Las Vegas Strip Brandon Eckstrom Richard Convention Center Substation Mandalay Bay Cole forty five minutes thirty seconds eight minutes five minutes four weeks ten weeks one day

Monday, November 18, 2019 - The Christian Science Monitor Daily

The Christian Science Monitor Daily

13:47 min | 1 year ago

Monday, November 18, 2019 - The Christian Science Monitor Daily

"Welcome to the Monitor daily podcast. It's Monday November eighteenth. Thanks for joining us. I'm a million NUKEM and I'm Ken Kaplan. These are trying times for journalists. They face growing threats globally from violence to cyberbullying to legal challenges designed to intimidate them. A new United Nations report finds that nearly five hundred journalists were killed from two thousand fourteen. Two thousand eighteen impunity is high with eighty eight percent of cases unresolved Syria Mexico. Co and Afghanistan are the most dangerous countries to work in but the United States accounted for seven deaths and Finland. For Two non conflict zones became became more threatening the more zones in two thousand seventeen to eighteen reflecting the targeting of those who report on corruption crime and politics. Hostile rhetoric has surged as have efforts to discredit professional accurate. Reporting as international news editors journalists advocates gathered authored. In New York last Friday noted vicious online attacks have spiked especially toward women. What is the best response? Journalists at the the gathering emphasized the need to maintain high standards and help the public better understand. What journalists do they also called for more officials to speak out in defense offense of a robust media's importance to democracy numerous initiatives are underway the new Global Media Defence Fund provides journalists? It's legal insecurity training. The ACOSS alliance was founded in two thousand fourteen to support freelance and local journalists. The Journalism Trust Initiative live is developing metrics for the trustworthiness of journalism as UN Secretary General Antonio Gutierrez noted on November second the International National Day to end impunity for crimes against journalists without journalists able to do their jobs and safety. We face the prospect of a world of confusion. Dan and disinformation now to our five stories including look at how Houston curbed homelessness. A Mexican Mexican teachers push to end violence against women and double discrimination in French soccer. Our first your story. How long can a democracy tolerate temporary government before public trust is eroded if Israeli leaders failed to form a coalition a third consecutive election would prolong the stalemate beyond a full year? Israel faces no shortage of challenges in underfunded healthcare system a national budget and multi year plan for the military needing approval a moribund peace process and ever-present security threats from Iran to Hezbollah this Bala to Gaza but as a post-election deadline to form a coalition government looms Israel faces the real prospect of yet another round of elections. That would stretch the nation's political deadlock beyond a year President Reuven Rivlin and political analysts are already warning about the damage to public Faith and political institutions if that happens blue and white party leader. Benny Ganz has until midnight Wednesday to form a coalition in his bid. Bid To succeed Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu who also may be indicted on corruption charges within the coming days a late October poll by the Israel Democracy Democracy Institute showed declining public faith in the system. Just because we're talking about government doesn't mean we can allow ourselves to complacently continue with such a situation says Johan plus ner president of the Israel Democracy Institute the public don't think another election will change anything and they expect affect the politicians and the political system to sort things out. This story was reported by Joshua Mitnick in Tel Aviv. Israel for the Monitor Who deserves a home to tackle homelessness? One City is rethinking. That question Houston has taken. The housing first approach in which a home is seen as a vital first step toward stability homelessness can arrive suddenly for j they are Richard. It arrived as suddenly as baseball superstardom. He was one of baseball's most dominant and highest paid pitchers. Jr Richard ended the nineteen nineteen seventy nine season with eighteen. Wins and three hundred thirteen strikeouts over two hundred ninety two innings and a new four year contract with the Houston Astros Astros worth eight hundred fifty thousand dollars a year nine months later. He had a stroke that would ultimately end his career depressed and unable to afford a doctor's visit let alone rent. He moved from friend to friend ending up under a bridge. I never thought in a million years that I would be homeless homeless. He says nobody in the world expects to be homeless family and in MLB pension helped him recover and he now works to help homeless people across. Ross Houston the city. Meanwhile has reduced its homeless population by fifty four percent since two thousand eleven and virtually eliminated homelessness among veterans errands making it one of the most successful cities in this state and perhaps the country on that score a few days in homelessness. Then you would really understand what it's like how you really depend on other folk. Mr Richard says because I don't care how much you got or who you are. You can't live in this world by yourself and survive survive. The story was reported by Henry Gas in Houston for the Monitor. It doesn't have to be this sway. That's the simple but powerful message. One teacher is helping. His students communicate in Mexico where high rates of gender-based violence it become. The norm at rush hour as the highway to Mexico City is clogged with barreling micro. Buses and minivans. Manuel Madore is going the other direction. His destination is a CA- tape pick a dense labyrinthine neighborhood of one point seven million people in our outside the capitol. It's where he's been a high school teacher for nearly ten years and it's one of the country's most dangerous places to be a woman as Mexico reckons with an uptick and femicide side or the murder of women for being women. The state where Echo Capex sits as one of the hot spots more than ninety two percent of residents in the community say they feel unsafe. According to a recent survey Mr Almodovar says his radar went off when he heard students talk about the pervasive violence and fear and how no one seem to denounce it so he did something in his extracurricular workshops whose influence has grown beyond school walls. He helps students craft performance. Ormond start to counter the acceptance many people feel about the deaths and assaults here. I feel good because this is the first man or at least the first man. Yeah I know who recognizes this problem and tries to solve. It says a student named has mean. He's not like other men who say here. They go again with their sermons. The story was reported by Sarah Miller. Yana in Mexico for the Monitor for teens. Respecting parents can sometimes be thorny but making Kosinski whose parents divorced shares our faith helped her change her attitude. This is part six in a series looking at the ten commandments through modern lines. When Megan Kaczynski was in sixth grade? Her parents told her they were getting getting divorced. She hadn't seen it coming. You have a tendency to be madge. He says it wasn't until college. She says that she fully accepted. The the divorce raised Roman Catholic. She got involved with a Catholic Newman Center in college. I made my faith my own. She says and the process of exploring lowering the imperatives of her faith strengthened her relationships with her parents. She believes Ms Kosinski talked with the Monitor about the fifth commandment which begins. It's honor thy father and mother. Her conversation is part of our series examining the ways. Ancient religious ideas like the Ten Commandments. Continue to matter in today's world these days Miss Kaczynski who was in her twenties talks with their mom on the phone every day and her dad once a week she looks forward to spending being time with each of them. When I was younger I took the commandment as their your parents? You have to respect them. She says now I interpret it as has it should be a mutual respect. I care what's going on in their life. The story was reported by Mary. Beth Macauley Marian station Pennsylvania for the Monitor Frenchwomen struggle for equal pay and other rights and soccer has made it difficult to make progress on another another troubling front attitudes around. LGBTQ issues for female soccer players in France makeup and long hair are are encouraged being out and proud is not while the sport basked in the glow of the World Cup. This past summer it continues to struggle on two fronts gender equality and LGBTQ issues female players earn much less than male counterparts and the fight to be seen as equals has hindered progress on talking about homosexuality in the player ranks. There's a new professional football league rule to halt matches over homophobic chance or signs but being openly gay remains taboo in order to gain more visibility for the sport women players have had to appear more feminine. So that at soccer isn't a marker for being a lesbian. Says you Lee Clayton a player for a gay friendly club. In September the President of the French Football Federation which governs pros and amateurs pitted himself against the pro league by announcing that he would tell referees not to stop games over homophobic incidence for many. LGBTQ players the sense that the federation doesn't support them has huge consequences if we say that women's soccer has to be compatible with themm anonymity. Homophobia is not far away. Says Miss Clayton. The Story was reported by Colin Davidson Paris for the Monitor Now commentary on a much-needed holiday break for the nation from the Monitor's editorial board Americans Americans riveted by the impeachment hearings might welcome break over Thanksgiving in theory the holidays a time to wrestle Turkey bone rather than the trump administration. It is time to rebel and family and friends rather than ones favorite fibers and foes. It is the time as pilgrim father. Edward Winslow described that Post Harvest Day in sixteen twenty one to rejoice together in particular. This year's Thanksgiving needs a bit of shared joy along with the gratitude and grace according to an October poll. Two out of three voters say the United States is on the edge of a civil war in two two thousand nineteen. The most quintessential American holidays is a time to she. Words of rancor and it is time to recall why Abraham Lincoln during the darkest orcas period of the civil war issued a Thanksgiving proclamation. That was a call to love one's enemies he asked that God's gracious gifts be acknowledged just as with one heart and one voice by the whole American people. He saw the giving of thanks and the humility requires as a healer of a broken in constitutional order in a democratic society. That's a wrap for the news news. You can find the full length versions of these stories in today's issue or at CS monitors dot com slash daily. And thanks for starting your week with us tomorrow. Join US again for a look at how Ohio Representative Jim Jordan became the. GOP's point man on impeachment. Today's Christian Science Spiritual Perspective column comments on Time Management. Getting through a to do list is often easier said than done but when we prayer ties listening for God's inspiration even those moments when we're overwhelmed. Were empowered to do what we need to do when we need to do it. You can find ended in today's issue or CS MONITOR DOT com slash daily. We want to give a quick thing store staff including today's audio production team. No a Robertson and Tim alone this podcast cast produced by the Christian Science Monitor Copyright Twenty Nineteen.

soccer Houston United States Jr Richard Mexico Israel Ms Kosinski Megan Kaczynski President United Nations President Reuven Rivlin Israel Democracy Democracy Ins Israel Democracy Institute Astros Ken Kaplan Christian Science Monitor Mexico City Finland
Brexit planning, Swedbank probe and Italian bank financing

FT Banking Weekly

14:17 min | 1 year ago

Brexit planning, Swedbank probe and Italian bank financing

"This financial times podcast is supported by capital. One capital. One is reimagining banking by offering accounts with no fees are minimums that can be opened from anywhere in five minutes. Capital one. What's in your wallet capital? One NA. Welcome to banking weekly from the financial times with me Patrick Jenkins. Joining me in the studio today, David Crowe, our banking, Nick Magor are retail banking correspondent and down the line from Oslo. We have Richard Milne are Scandinavian correspondent we also have a guest in the former MAPA Morelli the chief executive of Monte Paschi this week. We'll be discussing the variety of views over Brexit and potential provisioning among UK banks, look sweat Bank as it gets drawn into the Dansk money laundering scandal. And finally, look at Italy and how easy or trickier is for fourteen banks to fund themselves. I o to that Brexit story as the clock ticks on towards the end of March deadline for Brexit, Nick. And David you've been taking a look at what the different UK banks settling side the results about their financial preparations for Brexit. Regularly provisioning top-ups that they see as being wise, Nick most banks are being quite cautious about this. But some are more upbeat than others. Tell us what you found in the small print of the disclosures last week. Yes, if you look through the annual accounts have been coming out because of some new accounting rules that came in last year everybody every customer take account of the potential outcomes for the economy, given the amount of uncertainty in the moment that means that everyone has taken more impairments than they would have done under the old system. The division is rising is that for some of those banks. They've taken extra provisions on top of that. Because they think that the level of risk and uncertainty is such that normal economic models. Don't quite cover it that hate just PC of being the most cautious. The also Royal Bank of Scotland and Barclays taken various top ups over the last couple months, and at the other end of the scale you've got Lloyd's on Sunday, a being slightly less pessimistic. Yes. And TSP as well. None of them took any extra top-ups, David. What do you see as being the bottom line conclusion that we can take from this is it just simply that differently ios and different finance directors are more or less bullish about Brexit. Or is there something more fundamental going on? Well, I think it tells us something that we've known for some time at put numbers on a story that has been emerging which is the is a split among the UK banks over the likelihood and the dangers of a hard Brexit. There are some reasons that banks like Lloyds. You might feel that they have sort of a better outlook than just such as they have much greater proportionate mortgages secured lending, and so on but nonetheless, the mood music for a long time has been, you know, the CEO of obvious coming out looking little bit like e or on Brexit and others being much more upbeat. And this just really puts the numbers on what we've known for some time. The fact that Lloyd seemed to be the most upbeat as anything to do with the fact that they're chairman has been pro Brexit will along and his mood is infecting the executive, do you think? Well, it certainly puts the Bank in a tricky position, I suppose because when one talks to the chairman of Lloyds, he's supremely confident enough Utica outside of the European Union. And that it cannot be said as a few is shared by others in the city yet. Lord Norman Blackwell stands out as being a Brexit optimistic. Munger see as you say avails. Well, we'll be watching very closely to see what happens politically of the next couple of weeks, and whether Lord Blackwill is able to say, I told you so. Let's move onto a second topic. And a look at sweat Bank, which has been drawn into the dense kit Bank, money laundering scandal. So we're joined now by Richard mille in Oslo, Richard. What's behind sweat Bank gang drawn into the dense caravan, what's wet Bank is the largest of the Nordic banks in the Baltics. So everybody's been looking at it for some times. It's the allegations so surface last year. And before what sparked now is the Swedish investigative TV program by the state broadcaster allege that five point eight billion dollars at be funneled between suspect accounts in sweat, Bank, condense car and Hsieh's fell twenty percent last week sweat by was forced to announce that it was appointing an turn investigator and the niche week rather embarrassingly being forced to boot out that external investigator in hire another one. So sweat Bank is still struggling show that it's going to grip with the situation. Now, just remind listeners this all dates back to the enormous Danske Bank scandal where they will find you've funneled potentially dodgy money through their Estonian brench for a long period up to now we know that other banks had been drawn into as correspondent banks using the jogging though, each a Bank being the biggest among them, but it's went Bank. He's also alleged to have had that kind of relationship and therefore been dragged in well, some separate things is that dansko scandal is from two thousand seven to two thousand fifteen about two hundred billion year rose of money from Russia and other ex-soviet states flows through dense Casse tiniest stone brunch. A lot of it is presumed to be suspicious, but then Skar is only warm link in the chain of this potential money laundering in the banks either side of it the chorus. Abundant banks. You mentioned that's a license. Deutscher JP Morgan Bank of America that dealing with an flows into Dulles because dense good didn't have its own US banking licence. I mean, sweat banks role is different disease potentially transactions between suspicious customers in dense cover and the counts in sweat Bank. Now, we can't say what's going on. But what's happened is Bill Browder who's a critic of the Kremlin of Russia? He is being investigating very closely these flows, and he sa- builds up mos- AIC by investigating one Bank, and then he discovers that kind of transactions with other banks, and then he looks into this. And so sweet Bank of set really in the next month by their AGM at the end of much. They're looking to have aunt from their external investigation and just a fun. And just a fun word as you mentioned. They announced the appointment of E Y last week. Why have they ditched Iwo and replace them with another external investigator this week where the appointment drew quite a lot of criticism because e y is under investigation by Danish government agency over its role is in order to in twenty fourteen of Danske Bank. We should point out that pretty much all the big firms were involved in dense going around investigation as well. But it's obvious. Sweat bank. Got a lot of negative media attention, and they also seem to have got some feedback from shareholders as well. So they took the decision today to replace e- WI with a group called forensic risk alliance, which is an international consultancy. That's worked on cases such as Rothe, Royce and Talia when they had bribery. Well, Richard it looks like you're going to be kept busy by this widening scandal sometime yet, but thanks for updating. Let's move on now to a final story and a look at the Italian banking sector will be listening in a moment to what Mark Morelli chief executive of Monte Paschi had to say to us the other day about the funding conditions in the market and other issues, but first David has been a bit of good news in the last day or so from Fitch the rating agency, which has taken not a negative view of the Italian banking sector. It's interesting isn't it won't policies for good news in the Italian banking sector, these days the have been some suggestion by Fitch late last year that Italy's rating would be under pressure. And yesterday said that it was maintaining it rating for Italy now that is important for the Italian banks because they hold noodles of Italian government debt and downgrade would have led to a sell off that would have forced them to Mark all their holdings to market and blown a hole in their finances. And so on so yes, a sort of RAB piece of respite. Yeah. Absolutely. Which should translate through I guess into well at least not worsening conditions in their own funding market, as I said you and I sat down with mocha Morelli from Monte Paschi, probably the most troubled of at least banks a couple of weeks ago. Now, Mr. Morelli was brought in after the government bailout of the Bank to help bring it back to health, and he's been working for T systematically through the challenges of the Bank faces we started off by asking him about their own access to the bond markets, and they're successful placement of a cupboard bond. The wolves are clear window in the market has been a number of years since the last covered bond issuance by the Bank. We realize that was interest from investors. We originally thought in terms of five hundred million Ross is and then in a few hours. We did realize that the man was. Wedding excess of two billion. And this is why eventually we decided to close the books with one billion at a very interesting coupon. The reason why we went for that at the very beginning of the year. Was we want to make sure our liquidity buffer and our liquidity positional together was managing the most appropriate way next. We asked Mr. Morelli a bad, the broader funding situation again as we stated in the year ran results, call with investors and analysts as soon as there is a window put unity. We're going to go for it. Clearly, everything will be done in the context of preserving were top line, the top line of our PNL. And in the context of the overall strategy for twenty nine hundred and finally one other thing that Mr. Morelli has been doing is focusing on assets that they can sell off in order to bolster their finances. And particularly looking at the large property portfolio that NPS has not least the very lavish policy that owns including one in Milan. One of the commitments of the restructuring plan with the European Commission is to sell up to five hundred million aero. We went of real estate assets by the end of twenty twenty one. We are in the process of finalising prep work on a number of assets. We are going to put up for sale in the next few weeks. Again, everybody will be dealt with in the context of protecting the peon L of the company and making sure we do meet the requirement of the European Commission. But had we make a capital gain on these. Let's see what the market express in terms of potential value. Well, David there that meeting with me, I find Mr. Morelli very interesting to talk to you convinced that he is. As someone who can fix this Bank. And more broadly is reflective of I suppose, a more professional attitude to fixing the Italian banking sector as a whole where he was relatively upbeat for somebody who arguably has one of the hardest jobs in Italian banking. Although, you know, this sort of argument that we can just about raise money. When conditions are good is probably one gets you. Bye for now. But it's not a long term plan. And of course, there is also all of the political mood music in the Bank in particular, the sort of center of that. So, you know upbeat for now, but wait and see I suppose. Yep. Absolutely. Those funding markets are particularly fragile not least for the Italian banks like NPS. But obviously as we've reported before these problems are not confined to Italy Deutsche Bank being particularly vulnerable as well. Well, that's it for this week. All let's left me to do is to thank David an here in the studio and also Richard who joins us from Oslo. And thank you to Mark Morelli for speaking to us from NPS. If you're not already an F T subscriber do take a look at our latest subscription offer at FDU dot com slash offer. And remember you can keep up to date with all of the latest banking stories at FDA dot com slash banking. Banking weekly was produced by Fiona Simon until next week. Goodbye. We live in the area of disruption with entire industries in a state of change. Join host Walter Isaacson as he discovers the fascinating stories of some of the world's biggest trailblazers is the federal fence to to launch a rocket on the space. I mean, we're talking two hundred fifty thousand dollar fine in five years in prison from virtual reality to robotics Formula, one and farming trailblazers from Dell technologies the unexpected stories of digital disruption. Listen now from wherever you get your podcasts. This financial times podcast is supported by capital. One capital. One is building better Bank one that feels an acts nothing like a typical Bank. It's why they're reimagining banking and building something completely different the offer accounts with no fiercer minimums. The also offer one of the best savings rates in America, and you can open a Capital One account from anywhere in five minutes, Capital One. This is banking reimagined open. In an account today. Inexperienced banking reimagined for yourself capital. One. What's in your wallet capital? 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Gilgamesh - A Myth from Mesopotamia - Part 1

Storynory

16:13 min | 1 year ago

Gilgamesh - A Myth from Mesopotamia - Part 1

"This story is dedicated to car. And Sophia whose family support us on Patriot and Gilgamesh a myth from Mesopotamia. Hello this is Richard and I'm here with one of the oldest stories in the world. It is older even than the Bible. Its hero is a great king. Warrior and strongman could Gilgamesh who wanted to discover the secret of immortality immortality or living forever. It was written down around four thousand years ago on clay tablets in in lettuce called cuneiform when the city of Babylon was at the height of its powers. Babylon was in the parts of the world called Mesopotamia which means between the two rivers and is in modern day Iraq. The story story goes back even further in time to when a civilization called the Sumerians ruled Mesopotamia about six thousand years ago ago. So here is the story of Gilgamesh based on the ancient tales of him. WHO found all? Oh things who experienced everything who went everywhere I shall tell the tale. He gained complete wisdom. He found out what was secret. He uncovered what was hidden. He built the walled city of Iraq. If you climb up onto its high battlements and take a walk around you'll see a glistening city one one square mile in size you will see green orchards. Just as big you will see the vast quarries where they dug out the Klay to build the houses. You will see the temple of ish saw and it's lovely grounds. He ordered all this to be built. What was his name? What manner of men was he to find out? Listen On for for now I shall take out the copper box undo the bronze lock lift up the tablet made of Blue Lapis Lazuli lie and read the story of Gilgamesh. He was the king of Iraq he walked out in front of vast ost armies. He fought with the ferocity of a wild bull. He opened up passes through the mountains. He dug wells news and quarries in their sides he crossed the vast oceans two thirds of him was divine and one third mortal mortal Gilgamesh was the shepherd of his people but he was also a bully. Young men he beat up goes he kissed against their will. Parents and elders he disrespected. The gods received saved many complaints about him. They came up with a plan to tame the king with superhuman strength. I knew the Lord of the skies spoke to add rue the goddess of creation. He asked her to make a rival strongman to challenge. Enjoy the arrogance of Gilgamesh. I ru took a piece of clay from her side and pinched it into the shape of a man. And then she threw the mannequin can into the open countryside as he lay on the grass Lord Anu through a skiable at him. The lightning cursed. I threw his body and brought him to life. The man's name was an kee-doo and he was wild and strong his whole body was shaggy like a wolf and the hair on his head was long like a woman's he knew no people and he ate and drank with the cattle and the deer one day hunter came face to face with a wild man by the river and key to gave the hunter such a look that he almost died of fear. The hunter staggered in days. BACK TO HIS FATHER AT I. He was unable to speak when eventually he recovered his strength and his wits he managed to say further. There is a wild man on his body. Shaggy like a wolf and his hair is long like a woman's. He does not mix with people but he lives with the cattle and the deer today. He's so me by the Water Holland. Gave me such a look that I almost died of fright. He's he's the one who has smashed my traps and chase away the animals that I hunt I cannot fight him he's too big wild and strong and he fills me with Tara. What can I do and his father applied son? This is what you must this. Do you must go to the glistening city of Oak speak to the Great King Gilgamesh and ask him into send a woman who will tame this wild man. The Hunter listened to his father and did as he was told he went to the glistening city of Rook and threw himself on the ground before the Great King Gilgamesh Great Lord. He said there is a wild man his body shaggy like a wolf and his hair is long like a woman's. He does not mix with people but he lives with the cattle and the deer. He sold me by the waterhole. Gave me such a look that I almost died of fright. He is the one who has smashed my traps and chased away the animals that I hunt I cannot fight him he is too big wild and strong and he fills me with terror. You're what can I do. King Gilgamesh Hunter's story and decreed my wise mother Linson Linson the cow goddess will choose a woman from the temple to return with you and she will tame this wild old man and the whys Knin Son. The Cow Goddess Center Temple woman could shot with the hunter shots. Shots walked three days to the waterhole. Where the wild man used to drink alongside the animals? They waited the three days. Wild beasts drank. The water eventually inky Doo came to satisfy his thirst. He looked at Chaumont and and she looked back at him. He saw her charms and wanted to live with her. From that day. On the cattle and the wild animals kept away from him. Sham hats clothed him and taught him manners and how to speak she told him of the glistening city of Iraq and the temples of Anu and Istar and she told him the Great King Gilgamesh. Now man a fabulous fabulous strength. who raged like a wild bull? One day and kee-doo set shot. Take me to the glistening joining city of odor and the temples of anew and Istar and show me Kim Gilgamesh a man of great great strength. Who rages like a bull for? I want to fight him and prove that I am the strongest man in order and the glory belongs to me and shocked replied in keyed. You My love I still take you to the glistening city of Rook and I will show you the young men who wear bright sashes and the women who show of their figures and we'll sit down and eat the feasts that they hold the every day while the musicians play on drums flutes and trumpets but do not fight Gilgamesh. He is handsome and dignified. He has built the high walls of a Rook Luke and the temples of our new and dish tall he leads great armies out of the gates he is a man who is two-thirds divine nine and one third human and my love. He is stronger than even you are. Now it's happened that before Shamet. Lots had left the city of Iraq. She heard the following story. One night can Gilgamesh had a dream. He dreamed that a great ax fell like a thunderbolt of anew from the Sky Gilgamesh found the great acts on the mountainside and with with great difficulty. He hold it back to the city of Iraq and to the feet of his mother she treated the acts like an equal to him and he cherished it like a wife. When Gilgamesh awoke he was troubled by the strange range dream? He went to his mother. Knin son the cow go this and he said mother. I am troubled Abu by a strange dream. A great acts fell from the sky. Like a thunderbolt of new. I found the acts on the mountainside aside and with great difficulty. I dragged it back to the city of Iraq onto your feet. You treated this tax like an equal to me and I cherish it like a wife. Wise mother Jomie. What is the the meaning of this strange and troubling dream and the wise mother of Gilgamesh Knin son the cow goddess replied? Did it means that soon. A strong partner will come to you next to you. He should be the mightiest hist in the land and he will support and save you from danger in return you love and care for him like a wife. The Wise Nin Sung told the story of the dream Shamma and Shumpert told to Anke. Do it means winds said Shamet that you should be like a brother to Gilgamesh. That is why I was sent to tame you and to thank you to him shot an kee-doo began to walk to the glistening city of Iraq. The journey took three days and three nights lights on the final nights. They camped near the walls of Iraq with a group of shepherds. They sat around the Campfire and the shepherds one detain in key to how he was a strong as a thunderbolt of anew and eat quota Gilgamesh and they spoke of the arrogance. It's an injustice of Gilgamesh how he used his strength to bully the young men and women of the city of rock than the shepherds put food and drink in front of an key do but he refused to touch it. He narrowed his eyes stead at the embers of the Campfire and brooded about the arrogance and violence of Gilgamesh and he resolves to prove that he was more might even Gilgamesh and deserve the glory and would rule in his place and be wise. And just the next day Shum happening acton. kee-doo entered through the Great Lion Gates of the Glistening City of Ota they saw the templars of Anu and Istar and the a young men who wore bright sashes and the women who showed off their figures and feasted every day while the musicians played and then and key to you went to the House of Gilgamesh Father in law and stood before the door. When the king arrived at the House of his father-in-law with his soldiers soldiers around him and key to bod the way and would not allow him to enter the two men as mighty as fundable of ANU began to fight the door frames of the great city of shook and the mighty walls Trembled they fought and they grappled they pushed and shoved and they punched they wrestled and they clawed and they bit and they scratched in the end. Gilgamesh who is. It's two thirds one third human proved that he was the strongest but only just and the wise is mother of Gilgamesh. Nicholson the all knowing spoke to her son. And said here is in key to who grew grew up on the mountainside where he grappled with wolves his body was shaking. His head. Grew is known as a women's he. He lived among the cattle and deer until chaumont. The Temple Woman Tamed Him. He is the acts that you saw in your dream. And he is the strongest of all men after you he shall be your friend and supporter and you should cherish Russian like a wife. I shall treat them as equal to you. And I hereby adopt him as my son even though he was not born to me from henceforth and key shall be your brother and that is where we will leave the story of Gilgamesh for now but I will be back soon with the next part of the heroic tale from Ancient Message Potato Jamia in which Gilgamesh and key do fight the munster cooled Baba for now for me Richard at Story Nori Dot Com. Goodbye thank you Richard. It was fun recording with you and before we leave I would like to thank Kara Age six and so fear age to whose family supporters on Patriot their father Andrew Cheung rights. Kara loves the PIGSKIN GIN stories. Most of all story fills all trips to school with adventure and wonder keep up the amazing work and we are proud to support you and the crew three patriots. Well thank you very much to all of you for helping us. We really do appreciate a need your support and to those of you who are kind enough to supporters voters with five dollars a month. Please send us a little message that we can read. If you would like us to give you a shoutout unfor- now from me Jonah. At story NORI DOT COM goodbye.

Kim Gilgamesh Iraq Great King Gilgamesh Gilgamesh King Gilgamesh Hunter Richard Mesopotamia Istar Chaumont Babylon Babylon Lord Anu Cow Goddess Center Temple Sophia Bible Story Nori Dot Com Kara Age Hunter Jonah