4 Episode results for "Richard Sokoll"
BONUS: The First Family of Opioids with Patrick Radden Keefe
"Hello and welcome to special bonus edition of wise is this happening with me your host for safe. Hey, it's not a Tuesday. But I'm in your ear holes. What's up with listeners? I roll from Tiffany champion every time I use the phrase, I now do it just in the kind of data Hsi-wei to get a rise out of her. I here on a Thursday because we just have a special bonus today, which grew out of last week's conversation with New Yorker writer and author Patrick Radan kief last week. I talked to him at his new book say nothing about the dirty war in Northern Ireland and the ghosts of the past of that in credible book about a single case of a war crime that was committed in that war. And when when we booked him I also wanted to talk to him about something else. Completely unrelated the written because back in October twenty seventeen he had written a piece for the New Yorker called the family that built an empire pain, which is about a family called the Sackler lers who own a company called Purdue pharma that cr-. Created manufactured and marketed widely a drug that you've probably heard of called Oxy cotton Oxy cotton was a drug that completely broke the barriers for opioid prescription in the United States, thanks to the very aggressive marketing, and because of the technical way which had time release. So that the idea was that you could prescribe this very powerful opioid for pain, and it wouldn't be addictive and Mandic prescribed a lot. And the reason I wanted to talk to Patrick and keep about that is because very recently there were a bunch of files disclosed as a result of civil litigation against the sacra family that give a window into what exactly they were up to the marketing Oxycontin, which played a central role in the beginnings of what we now call the opioid epidemic and pedantic that is killing tens of thousands of Americans every year is contributing to something we've talked about on the show before which is the decline in. Eric in life expectancy for three years in a row. And so because Patrick had written about it. And because he was sort of tweeting out about these documents when they came out I thought to myself, well, I wanna talk about both these things and we have them in the studio wants, so let's talk about Northern Ireland. And then let's also talk about opiates to extremely happy topics. So we put out the podcast this week about say nothing and today's conversation is a bonus episode about the soccers it's about this family their company and the beginnings and origins of the opioid epidemic. As a prescription problem, not feno not heroin. But a prescription problem being pushed by fully legal mainstream big pharma getting doctors to prescribe as much of this stuff. As was humanly possible, and you will hear from Patrick about the links the sack there's went to to move this product and the havoc. It's raw. Back in twenty seventeen euro two story, if the New Yorker called the family that built an empire of pain that was about the Sackler family who are the Sackler is what was their company, and what role did they play in sort of kicking off for lack of a better word the opioid epidemic soccer's were until fairly recently. Really just the last few years family that was chiefly known as one of the great philanthropic dynasties in America, they gave millions and millions of dollars to art museums around the world to medical institutions into universities. And so chances are anyone who's listening has been into a Sackler wing or a sector gallery of the temple of gender at the met is in the sack Lorraine people. May may know what I mean, they're all over the place. The best Olympia say the best place in from the time. I was a wee lad the. The probably my favorite place in New York City still to this day. Take my take my kids there on the. Yeah. So they had this venerable tradition, and they were just kind of a wealthy family based in New York and Connecticut with branch in UK, you've ERI rarely heard about how they made of money. And it turns out that it was a company produce pharma, which is a privately held company that belongs to the family and Purdue interestingly, if you I think even to this day, but if if you go to the website of Purdue, you'll get the sense that produce owned by the Sackler, so the Sackler name was everywhere and philanthropic context, but it wasn't on the one source of the family's wealth, which was this company, right which created and marketed, Oxycontin and Khan was a powerful opioid one of many opioids that are on the market, but one which people who've studied this issue will often say in the very early going. Deserves a great deal of blame for kicking off the opioid crisis. And the reason for that was that prior to the introduction of Oxycontin. There was a you would really only use strong opioids of that sort in palliative care situations cancer treatment because there was a an understanding going back thousands of years that to wrote of the opium poppy are quite addictive. The idea with cotton is that it kind of cracked that problem by creating a a time release capsule. So that if you took a large dose of Oxycontin, it would actually release into your bloodstream only very slowly. And so the idea was instead of dosing every four hours on the you could just take two pills a day, and you'd be able to take your pain. You've got a problem that has been deviled humans for like, you said thousands of years, right? Like thousands of years ago, we discovered the poppy has this affect yes. All these great effects. It makes you feel mellowed out at high, and it gets rid of pain and people use it in. Various iterations. But also that people get addicted to it and these two things are just next to each other as the like the paradox of the poppy right that humans know about China. A war over the fact of UK insists on basically drug dealing to the Chinese populace in the port cities. And then Oxycontin comes along like we've cracked it. We've got it gotten it. We figured it out here. It is this time release mechanism means you can have the good stuff without rats, basically the sales. Absolutely. And then a couple of other important factors as this was happening. There was this movement afoot in the medical community to recognize pain. There was discussion about adding pain as vital sign. Anybody who goes to the hospital these days, Alaska, what the level of pain, you're feeling one to ten and that was actually a a kind of movement that happened to dovetail with this actually comes along at the right time. And then it just so happens that the way the Sackler family made their money originally was it Arthur Sackler was one of three brothers who three physician brothers who kind of the patriarchs was really the pioneer of medical advertising, and he really made a lot of money marketing valium design the advertising campaigns valley. Liam another active substance which found widespread use. And so they engaged in this ferry concerted effort to change the minds of American doctors and say, you really should overcome your in addition to prescribe this to people you shouldn't just be prescribing it for cancer treatment. Really, there's any range of back pain fibromyalgia. Whatever your issue, we have the drug for you. And they were phenomenally successful both in the specific case of selling a lot of Oxycontin. But also in the broader sense that they did kind of initiate a sea change in the prescribing habits of American doctors. So I go back and forth on this. And I feel like I've read things on both sides. So first of all time wise, Oxycontin comes on the market when nineteen nineties mid nineties, but by by the late nineties really coming to the fore it sort of takes off in late nineties, and that's the same time. When you've got this real sea change, and there's good faith arguments that the medical. Establishment did ignore a lot of people's pain that it was to dismiss minor standings at Lear started to appear that genuinely showed that pain wasn't just kind of at the phenomenal. Right. That pain wasn't just the way your body responded to the real sickness or injury, but itself right could drive rewiring, your brain and make you more susceptible to further pain. That are understanding of pain was limited. And I guess I wonder like how much of that was just a spin job. There's this revolution. That happens basically says get over your obsession with the addictiveness and get serious about treating pain. And I guess my question is how much of that was good faith and how much has sales job. This is something I'm I wrestle with to this day because part of the arsenal of techniques really devised by Arthur Sackler, but the others he was dead by the time ox coms introduced, but that others. Used to incredible affect Oxycontin was to create this sort of self licking ice cream cone phenomenon in which you pay a bunch of doctors to essentially give them a boondoggle to go down to Palm Beach and go to a conference at which and other doctor who is on your payroll. We'll give speech presenting research by a team of doctors who are also on your payroll about either pain or your drug, and I think there's no question that pain is an issue is real, and it should be treated the tricky thing with pretty pharma and some of the other companies owned by the Sackler, and this is true really read up to the present. I mean, just to very recent years even in the face of the opioid crisis is the when they're looking to expand internationally, which they've been doing since things kind of plateaued here, they'll go into a country and commission these studies. And so you'll see these studies come out that will say you wanna move you wanna go into Brazil? So the first thing you do is you Commissioner study that finds that forty percent of Brazilians are suffering from. Diagnosed chronic pain, you almost create the problems that that's not to say that you don't have a lot of Brazilians who legitimately have chronic behalf, chronic pain and should get some kind of treatment. But the cynicism with which the business interests, and the and the medical research have kind of intermingled, I think makes it very difficult to parse precisely the question you're asking so they had this drug that promises this benefit. And then they have a extremely savvy marketing operation that kind of comes at the entire medical stablishment sort of three hundred sixty degrees, right? What is the result of those two combined forces? Of you know, reportedly thirty five billion dollars in sales. So they sell a lot of Oxycontin. And it's interesting because the the Sackler family and proof arm, and now will say, oh, you know, we only ever had a small amount of market share look at all these other opioids on the market, but the truth is the conditions precedent. That allowed all of these other companies to thrive and selling opioids been what what started this off was. And there's a paper trail for this. Now that's come out, and litigation was people at Purdue pharma and specific members of the Sackler families saying we really got to change the minds of doctors. Let's be strategic about this. Let's just resource it like crazy. Let's in an army of sales reps out there. Let's commission this research. Let's change people's minds and make it, okay? To prescribe strong. Opioids. You just mentioned litigation. So you wrote this piece back in two thousand seventeen and it was kind of the first treatment. I think that sort of put two and two together of here's his family, the Sackler 's here's this company Purdue pharma, and here's what the role they played in popularizing. The prescription of opioid particularly cotton like these things are linked. But since you wrote that there's a huge new raft of documentary evidence. What is it? What's the litigation and what have we learned now? Yeah. I mean, I should say to give credit words do there were a couple of landmark pieces of work. So Barry Meyer on your time. Reporter now former New York Times reporter wrote about Oxycontin, and this actors for the time he wrote a book called painkiller that came out. Let me fifteen years ago really early on and Sam can Yoenis wrote this book dreamland, which which which I'm sure you've read, but the that's been wanting to get him on the party great book, but the treatment in both of those books, they both talk about the family, but both of those books take a kind of multi-strain. Approach to the story in which you have doctors and addicts and in Kenya's case, you know, street level drug dealers, and the Sackler are one of those strands, and what I wanted to do in the New Yorker to me, the story was the Sackler was I wanted to tell the story of of this family and have them kind of front and center, and I wrote a piece that was a long piece, I think to this day more people read that piece in anything I've ever written for the New Yorker. But interestingly the aspects when I was working on it that we're kind of black box to me. So. They're so little information about the interaction between the family members, and this company that they own and after the piece came out there were already many many lawsuits against Purdue. But you started seeing these new lawsuits against naming the sack individual Sackler 's and one of the most by the attorney general and Massachusetts more Healy, turning general Massachusetts as part of this suit got access to a million pages of internal documents and memoranda and in God, it was January released this stonning court filing this big complaint quoting chapter in verse all these internally mails from Richard sokoll from Jonathan's alad from all these members of the family in which you see them talking about the desire to get the drug out there and have it be a huge success and change doctors minds in which you see them really early on hearing from their own sales reps. God we're having. We're hearing about addiction we're here. But people. Abusing this drug, and they kind of pooh-poohed it and say, these are, you know, these drug addicts, you know, they're not legitimate pain. Patients were out here to look out for the you know, there's no sense on their part of a moment of real alarm, or you know, maybe we should slow down with the marketing here. There's also a suit by the attorney general in New York, which is produced a huge raft of amazing documentation. It's been fascinating for me as somebody who was trying to kind of get a glimmer of the internal dynamics of the family and the company, but I I don't have subpoena power. Right. So there's only so far can go as reporter to see these documents that are going to turn out. I mean, there's something just so wild about the situation, which is that we've pursued this war on drugs for forty years. We have not fundamentally altered despite the millions of people have been sent to prison the billions, and tens of billions of dollars. That's been spent not fundamentally altered the rate of drug addiction in the society. It's essentially in stable, right? We now. Have drug overdoses going up this insane alarming rate, so high in fact, it's contributing to a decline in life expectancy for three years in a row, which is on precedents. Roar one and then sitting atop this, right? Like, there's the image. I grew up with of the drug dealer. The scary drug dealer coded as black inner-city young man crack, right? And that's like the bad guy. That's the cops have to get the evil and nefarious figures like Kate come here like of the peak drug war propaganda, the nineteen eighties. And here's this family that fucking paid for the temple ender. Right. Until very recently. We're getting feted at every opportunity who were basically dealing drugs to all of America. Right. I mean, just when you think about the coding of that like racially and socially, and who what's a crime. And what isn't and who gets criminally accountable who goes to jail, and then you watch John bainer retire as house speaker and go work for the fricking marijuana lobby because like now, it's like, okay. Well, now marijuana's fine. And now like a bunch of white wealthy. People are going to be able to deal marijuana legally. And this is the way it works. I mean, and you know, I mean Eric Holder in private practice worked for proof Armagh Rudy Giuliani worked for Purdue pharma, they today or hiring every white shoe law firm imaginable, and probably it's interesting. There's all these suits against Purdue. And one of the things that the New York lawsuit discovered is that for years now quietly the Sackler have been pulling money out of the company. And moving it offshore and putting it in obscure places. So fascinating the day may come where Purdue ceases to exist. But the Sackler is are are just fine one final question. There's one particular part of that filing that really stuck with me, which was that they describe something they call the pain funnel, and they're they wanna get into addiction treatment. Yeah. So it's like you talked about like a selfless ice cream cone. So it's a sing where it's like. Okay. We'll people have pain we prescribe opioids a certain percentage of those people get addicted and at the bottom, there's a diction treatment. Maybe we can get into the addiction treatment game too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's look I think the tricky thing for me though, right? Is this is this is capitalism? In essence, totally the incentive the incentives are cells, much Oxycontin. It's possible. Yeah. Yeah. I mean in in the case of the Sackler 's it is coming back to get them. There's some social shaming. That's happening there a bunch of museums. Just in recent weeks have said for the first time, you know, we're not gonna take anymore. Your money, but the name I think is going to stay on all the places that already is those are binding contracts. I think it's unlikely you'll see those names removed. And so there is a strange sense in which it kinda worked, right? I mean, the legacy of that name will it'll still be there on the building. Well, it depends on what you have to say about it going forward. You're running a book on this. Right. Is that? Yeah. It's gonna be pretty interesting. All right. When the books out, we'll have you back on the podcast. I love that. All right, petrograd and kief staffer under the New Yorker, his new book is say nothing about the troubles in Ireland in one specific case, we spoke about that. You can check out that conversation, which is fascinating. He also wrote the family that built an empire pain for the New Yorker back in October twenty seventeen and is now writing a new book on opioids and sacrifice. Patrick. Thank you. Thank you. Once again, thanks to patch. Kief particularly thanks for staying extra-long. We get them in the studio for a while. If you're just listening to this episode and having listened to the first with him the ghosts of dirty war about his book say nothing, you should absolutely check that out. It's an incredible conversation and incredible book, we love to hear your feedbacks into us with pottage, Email dot com. Printed us with the hashtag with pod wise happenings, presented by MSNBC NBC news produced by the all in team and features music by Cooper, see more of our work, including links to things we mentioned here like on NBC, news dot com slash wise is happening. Hi, it's Stephanie rule. If you low them NBC where your heart on your sleeve gear up with t shirts. Hoodies hats and more from Belgian rule and all of your favourite MSNBC shows at MSNBC store dot com.
The Family That Profited From Prescription Opioids
"Support for WMU comes from commuter connections. If you ride here to work, you get a guaranteed ride home for illness. Unexpected emergencies or unscheduled overtime commuter connections dot org or eight hundred seven four five ride. Some restrictions apply. Hi, Diane right back with you on my mind the family by the country's prescription opioid epidemic. The Sackler family wanted to Richard in the country has made their fortune on say the prescription painkiller. Oxycontin drag words introduced in the mid nineteen ninety s and v at time two hundred thousand deaths in the US from prescription opioids now the Sackler family as his flurry of new lawsuits over what they knew about how dictate oxyde content can be an when they knew it. Barry Meyer has been following this story, I'm very of years. Former New York Times reporter, he's the Alterra painkiller and empire of deceit. Barry meyer. I tell us who are the Sackler lers. And then what is Purdue pharma will the Sackler is our re brothers. Arthur, Raymond and Mortimer Sackler. They were all research psychiatrists are all trained physicians, but they soon left medicine and all the became involved in the pharmaceutical industry Arthur opened up what was the largest drug advertising agency in the United States. Kind of spawned the marketing of prescription drugs both to doctors and the public and he put his two younger brothers, Raymond and Mortimer in charge of a little drug company in New York City, which was in called Purdue Frederick and ended eventually after maybe thirty years was transformed into produce pharma the manufacturer of the drug Oxycontin than eight. Aimed Sackler is high one Washingtonians. No, it's only thing pre earth Sackler museum. It's on art institutions have own country. You're correct. It's everywhere. You know? I remember many years ago going to the Metropolitan Museum in New York City and walking into the temple of Dende or this magnificent Egyptian temple that sits inside a wing of the met. And that is the Sackler wing of the metropolitan you go to museums around the world at the Tate Gallery in London. The national portrait gallery, various other museums and medical facilities both here in the United States and England in Israel. And and the Sackler name is everywhere. So when Arthur is sat cleared 1987 more demerits, and Raymond I get their purchased his stake in or. Due frederick. It's one of them over fascinating chapters of this whole episode one the sketched out painkiller because what happened was that? The heirs of Raymond Mortimer Sackler on one side, and Arthur Sackler on the other side got into a big fight over you know, who owned would and what parts of Arthur's estate one to his brothers. And what would they be sold for? And it was through that litigation that the kind of reach of Arthur Sackler became apparent. It was like an octopus that he had established. You know, he not only advertise drugs. He owned medical journals. He paid newspapers to put advertising in their newspapers for his drug industry clients, if you wanted to be in one of his journals you had to pay him if you were drug company, he basically had the entire medical for Masud ical system wired to his financial benefit and when he died. Died. There was a battle over where these assets would go and his two brothers more and more and Raymond essentially purchased Purdue pharma out of the estate and was a who then developed Oxycontin or remarkably Purdue pharma really hasn't developed anything they tended to buy technology from other companies so in the mid nineteen eighties. They acquired a time release technology that was initially used in a drug called MS contin with content both in Oxycontin and MS contin standing for continuous or continuous release drug and MS contin was a morphine base strode. So basically had morphine very strong painkiller narcotic painkiller as it's active ingredient. And it was used primarily in cancer ward and with terminally ill patients to provide them. Consistent long-term relief. You could take a tablet of MS contin in basically, your pain would be quelled for anywhere from ten to twelve hours by the mid nineteen nineties. However, the patent on MS contin was about to expire producer realize they're going to have serious genera competition. And so they then adapted. This time release technology using another traditional painkiller which was Oxy code own to produce Oxycontin. And it was posed the a'drug with their few addictive side effects, one of the most bizarre things about this whole story is the fact that the food and Drug administration, which regulates the approval and sale of drugs made a decision in late nineteen ninety five to allow Purdue. To claim that Oxycontin because it had this time release mechanism would or might be was the exact language might be less prone to abuse than traditional narcotic painkillers drugs like vicodin or Percocet things that were traditionally on the market the thinking behind that was that since the shorter acting drugs hit your bloodstream faster, so people seeking a rush from these drugs would be attracted to them. They wouldn't be attracted to Oxycontin because it was a time released drug at gotten to the blood slower so and so forth, but the fallacy there was number one. There was not an iota of scientific evidence to back up that idea was simply theory and produce it never done any studies to support that notion and number two Oxycontin was. An atomic weapon it was pure oxycodones. These other drugs were combination of oxycodone on an over the counter pain killer, so drug addicts are drug abusers quickly realized that if they wanted a large quantity of a powerful narcotic. There was no better place to get it. Then oxycontin? Here's what really troppled Hughes said that Purdue who may this quote Clayton. What was empty? He's grow. Here. Did they do any studies themselves was completely left to the company? It was completely left to the company. I mean, the the role of FDA is to look at the data that the company submits and then make independent scientific decisions about whether number one the structure be on the market at all. And number two. What type? Of information can the company claim when it selling the drug when it's marketing the drug and the tragedy here is that there is a century one person in the FDA who was sort of the drug approval officer's name was Curtis. Right. And he decided for reasons that are somewhat inexplicable that, you know, this idea kind of makes sense to me, you know, this sounds okay. And basically with a stroke of a pen, the FDA became a part of the problem that they sort of not only allowed this drug to be marketed the way that it was they allowed it to keep this marketing claim for years and years after when onto the market so van Purdue fines doctors who have reputations as high volume opioid prescribers and seeks them out as. Target. Exactly the genius of Arthur Sackler, even though he's dead at the time that content comes out is that he realizes that for pharmaceuticals to make their drugs, successfully companies to earn as much money as possible, they basically have to seduce doctors, they basically make doctors part of their team to go out and flak and hawk the drugs for them to convince their colleagues that these drugs are breakthroughs a really great for patients and essentially then get put onto the payrolls of these drug companies. So what produce Armin did of taking that model when out hired these pain management experts brought them to the junkets around the country, and then pay them, you know, five to five thousand dollars speech to go out, and basically convince their fellow physicians that Oxycontin was a miracle drug that it would work better. Than any other narcotic pain reliever. And that it was safer to use than any other pain reliever. So you also had sales reps. Thousands of dollars. There was a document that I got way back when are starting to research Purdue pharma, which is almost twenty years ago where these reps were being given us bonuses. And there was competition. Amongst them to see basically who could sell the most drugs who could generate the most sales, and they would get prizes. You know, cash bonuses trips cars, you know, it's kind of like a beauty contest. And I was given a list at one point by a whistle blower inside produce pharma that listed the top ten sales reps and the areas that they covered in the United States. And what this person pointed out to me was that every one of those areas was an area where Oxycontin abuse was rampant. At that time. You talk out they doctors who were paid thousand. Six dollars to go out and spread the word. I wonder what kinds of reactions those doctors who were prescribing it as well, it's touting benefits what kinds of actions were they getting from patients. Do we know we know some of that one of the interesting things about this whole saw is that doctors want to treat their patients as best as possible. They certainly want to treat their patient pain as effectively as possible. New pain is is a very common complaint that patients come into the doctor's office with and so here doctors were being given a drug in toll that, you know, this is a a very effective way to treat your patients pain, and it's natural that they would embrace it and use it. But what started to come out very early on the sales reps when they would go around to these doctors have conversations with them. How's your patients doing would you like to, you know, maybe you should think about prescribing them more this drug, blah, blah, blah. And then afterwards, they would write what were called coal notes, which is essentially I met with Dr so-and-so he told me this myself strategy, drew my next visit is this and what's are popping up. In those coal notes were indications that doctors were telling. Sales reps that Oxycontin was being abused at their patients were getting addicted to it that they knew that prescriptions that they were writing were ending up on the streets. One of the things that that struck me kind of blew my mind to be Frank. I mean, you know, you cover story for while. And you think you know, it but about two years ago, right? When I was about to bring out the latest edition of painkiller. I was given a document. It was an internal Justice department document that had been put together in the mid two thousand when the department of Justice was investigating Purdue pharma it had never come to life because the criminal charges involved in that case had been settled. But what that document showed is that prosecutors had gone through all these Cole notes, and they had found more than one hundred occasions between nineteen eighty seven which is essentially the year after Oxycontin comes on the market and nineteen ninety nine. Where doctors had said to sales reps that the drug is being abused drug is getting on the street. There are problems with this drug. So Purdue had plenty of warning in the media aftermath of this drugs launch that drug abusers were seeking it out. And how successful was that drug and -cially how much money did Purdue make they may billions. I mean this quickly became what's known in the drug industry as a blockbuster, which is a drug that exceeds one billion dollars in sales annually. It was estimated a couple of years back by Forbes magazine that the wealth of the Sackler family was approximately thirteen or fourteen billion dollars and virtually all of it was based on content sales. I saw fair. Figure that some two hundred thousand people have done it from overdoses since Oxycontin came on the market is that the bigger you have. Yes. Those are overdoses involving prescription painkillers drugs that are prescribed by doctors. They don't account for overdoses involving drugs like feno counterfeit versions offensive no or heroin, which are are the drugs that unfortunately, now driving the largest growth in overdose deaths. Dan, I remember very well that when painkiller first came out in two thousand three I think you were kind enough to have me, you know, we chatted about it. We chatted about this issue. And we've chatted about it. A couple of times over the years, and I can tell you that. I never imagined that you. And I would be having this conversation sixteen years later, it could even you did not see this growing problem. You know, I joked on time that, you know, journalists like to think that when they write about something they solve a problem, you know, by bringing something to light they are able to correct something that's kind of the concede that we operate under. But sadly in this case, this was a conceit that was extremely ill-founded because not only has the problem become worse. But during the vast majority of the time between our initial conversation in two thousand three and now sixteen years later today I watched as year after year. Lawmakers regulators state officials doctors Unum it do nothing to sound the alarm about the prob. Problems that the over prescribing of prescription painkillers was causing. And now a quick break. When week I'm back from berry Meyer. Support for WMU comes from commuter connections. If you ride share to work you are eligible to receive a couple of free rides home each year, guaranteed. Why freak out about getting home in case of illness? Unexpected emergencies or unscheduled overtime. Register or renew today for free at commuter connections dot org or eight hundred seven four five ride commuter connections dot org. Some restrictions apply. And we're back. Here's my conversation with Barry Meyer. He is most raised and book is pain killer and empire of deceit. Now there are lawsuits their lawsuits about three or four years ago. People kind of woke up and said, oh my God. There's an epidemic. They even coined a word. They they're now calling it the, you know, the opioid crisis. They're always was an opioid crisis. But it had to get to this dire point where sixty thousand Americans were dying of overdoses from legal and illegal drugs over the course of a year it had to reach the point of insanity for people to start doing something. And it's tragic that this was not addressed earlier. So. How is Purdue pharma reacting to all the foods? Purdue pharma is reacting much in the same way that it has always reacted one can at minimum give them consistency. As virtue. They admitted in two thousand seven they pled guilty to criminal charges that they had lied to doctors to patients to regulators to everyone about the benefits and risks of Oxycontin. But right up until that point they were claiming they were doing nothing wrong and ever since that point they have claim they have done nothing wrong. What we're seeing right now, I think is a repeat of what happened in tobacco litigation where again, the manufacturer of controversial product was successful for many many years in vending off lawsuits and fending off criticism in hiring the best lawyers. Paying politicians and building a successful defence against public outcry. Now that defense were Purdue in the sack ler families concerned has started to crack and the truth is starting to come out. So what does Sackler and Purdue? Have done. Right. Loan is to blame the. Yes, there's a six star Neri Email. That's come out. That was written by Richard Sackler? Who is the son of Raymond Sackler when it produced farmers founders and Richard sokoll himself, the president of produce pharma during probably the height of abuse of Oxycontin. And you know, he says what we've gotta do is hammer on the abusers. You know, they're the problem there. The fall they created this concept in their head and tried to polyphony rated publicly, you know, that there were two classes of people. There were good people. The patients who are taking these drugs. According to doctor's orders, and the bad people who were the abusers who either live not taking it according to doctor's orders or buying on the street, or whatever the case. But the fact of the matter is that is much as Richard Sackler and. Other members of family might have railed against drug abusers or drug addicts a number of people who took Oxycontin as prescribed by doctor did become dependent or addicted to the drunk about San they their drug companies. Did they get involved with opioids in similar ways? Oh, yes. Purdue pharma is by no means unique here. I mean, they laid the groundwork. They open the door to the expanding use of opioids in medical setting in that kind of triggered this public health crisis that we're in now, but every other drug manufacturer follow them through that door. They sort of the vast amount of money that could be made here, and they jumped in as well, and it was only drug manufacturers. It was companies that act as distributors of dry. Okay. So basically this the drug manufacturer that makes the drug there's drugstore that prescribes you the drug, but then in between them there are these companies that buy the drugs from any factors in distribute them to drugstores in what's come out again through investigative reporting and government investigations is that these distributors were shipping millions of pain pills to areas of the country where drug abuse was rampant knowing full well that this supply of pain pills far exceeded the legitimate need for them in these areas. Tell me about Fenton, no feno is another opioid. It's it's is used in the medical setting to treat pain. It's very powerful opioid can be used again for pro surgical pain. It could be used for cancer pain. But it's medical uses. Typically, are very limited defense and all that your listeners are reading about or seeing television stories about is a counterfeit version of fence. It's basically made in laboratories either in Canada or Mexico from raw materials that are first produced in China and then shipped overseas, and because of the power feno once it gets mixed in with say heroin or other drugs and sold on the street as pills that can it can be pressed in and and you can get sort of phony pills that are being sold to look like regular pain pills. It's such a powerful drug that people who have not been exposed to opioids before even people who are used to taking opioids can quickly overdose in. I from these drugs. So what's happening with these lawsuits? Cut New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island and Utah who have filed foods against members of the Sackler family where does that leave the human beings who've either lost their lives there is where does that leave them? It's a fascinating question. I am going to be very interested to see how this litigation plays out as you may be aware. There was a recent settlement by the state of Oklahoma against Purdue pharma, others trial coming up there at the end of Megan's to other opioid makers and as part of that settlement produce forma agreed to fund or provide money to fund diction research at a branch of university in Oklahoma. And that's all well and good. That's wonderful. There really can't be enough money made available for addiction research and addiction treatment. But at the same time Michael hunter, oh, I believes the attorney general of Oklahoma. Agreed that all the internal produce forma documents that the state had gathered in preparation for this lawsuit remained sealed essentially be returned to produce. He didn't require these documents to be publicly disclosed as part of the settlement. So essentially produce able to by itself some peace, and you know, the states these lawyers have to decide at what point do the families of those who lost loved ones to this terrible epidemic. The people who've been affected by this terrible epidemic. When do they deserve to know the truth when we? Will these lawyers require as a part of settling these cases that these documents be made public? So that the public knows the story of this epidemic and can read it for itself. Do you believe that people who have hidden trees it by Dr with Oxycontin, simply got in over their heads? In the words of little bit was great to help the pain, but that more and more was needed to keep the paint down. Well, this is the nature of all narcotic painkillers. There is a natural process that takes place that once you take an opioid, and you achieve pain release the body adapts to it. It's a process called tolerance. And therefore to get the same lev. Of relief you need to take more of the drug. And so for many people the dose to be increased and increase and increase and adapters were willing to do that. Yes. And they were being encouraged to that. Because initially they were being told by producer Armagh that it was safe to do it. I mean, you could ramp up the dosages of your patient as high as possible without any ill effect who what we've learned so far is that that is not at all true that there are serious significant side effects that can occur with increasing dose of any opioid. They knew it while they certainly became aware of it very quickly. If they didn't know it initially, and so for the consequences for patients have been many fold. I mean, I sitting knowledge that this drug does have benefits that patients can do well on long term use of an opioid. But if it's controlled. And if they're monitored and if they're treated by Dr that knows what they're doing. However for many patients, these dosages were driven up so high that the became emotionally or psychologically dependent on the drug that became addicted to the drug they developed all kinds of other serious side effects, which one of them remarkably enough is increased sensitivity to pain, and you know, they've been all types of terrible consequences that don't involve overdoses. These are the consequences that patients are experiencing and many patients early. Some patients have been taking these drugs for so long that they may have no alternative, but to stay on these drugs. So the rest of their lives and do with the consequences of them. So in the end, what kind then impact do you think? And he or all the lawsuits could have on the distribution of Oxycontin and other opioids or is it simply matter of these drug companies paying fines, I'd like to hope that in the end we have a settlement or a resolution that in some ways is modeled after the tobacco resolution where the companies agree to a new code of conduct that they won't advertise their products in certain way, or they won't market their products in certain ways that they will then disgorge all their internal documents. So their activities both present and past our public. I would certainly like to see that happen. I think that would would be one of the bidder outcomes. I mean this industry the. The industry that manufactures distributes opioids has been operating in the shadows. For decades much like the tobacco industry did. And it's time for them to step into the light. So finally, do you see any move a head toward removing appeal. It's from the market, I don't think opioid should be removed from the market. I think that these are, you know, historically, we've used opioids throughout you know, time they are valuable drugs. They help patients, but you know, in my career, there's a pattern that often takes place that I've seen in reporting stories Souris involving problem drugs problem medical devices that these products have value, they typically have value for very limited class of patients, but for a maker or medical device maker to make billions they have to market it. Into the mainstream of medicine, and that's where the chaos, and that's where the problems start. So what I would like to see is a pullback on the use of these drugs to those specific classes of patients who do no need them and do not have any alternatives for the vast majority of conditions for which contin was marketed by produce forma, and that's everything from you know, dental pain to sports into injuries to lower back pain to arthritis. There are alternative forms of treatment. That are known not only as affective as in opioid. But better for a patient there. I'm here. Thank you so much. Thank you. Diane. And that's all for today. I'd love to hear your reactions. Finding some Facebook and Twitter. Send Email the podcast head WMU dot org. You can find all our podcast and even Diane rain shows at Diane ream or our theme music is composed by Jim Berg and been lens for Wunderle. This show is produced by Rebecca Kaufman. And outlaws and Brody are engineers is guard Douglasville and Nedley your left Kerr, I'm off to get a voice treatment. So next week. We'll bring us special shows from the archives. Thanks for listening. I'm Diane Rehm. This week on the what's with Washington podcast. We're talking bikes are they allowed to be on our sidewalks. And why is our city getting so crowded? Anything else you need to be locked on you need to be Luke Skywalker x wing like you have to be really concentrated on your mission. Not going to get the death star not gonna blow up. But yeah, it was so what's with Washington, and you podcast from WMU. Subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts.
ACS (Part 2): Richard Zoglin
"Thanks for listening to the adam. Corolla show on podcast one well we have gina and in the news and lots at news and also genus got a very big announcement so stay tuned for that and this half of the show first lifelock a database database belonging to a chinese smart home device company was left exposed and it included more than two billion logs containing eating everything from user passwords count reset codes so many threats in today's connected world it just takes one weak link for criminals to get <hes> and then the personal information gets exposed and someone could use it to commit identity theft these folks. It's on the rise. Come on this is all other doing you have so much freedom with the internet and your credit cards and paying for everything online negotiating life online but how about a little insurance about lifelock lifelock identity theft protection adds a pair of norton security to help protect against threats to your devices. You can't easily easily see or fix on your own. It is the best it is lifelock right dawson proventil identity theft or cybercrime or monitor transactions. This is it all. This is the lifelock with norton security threats. You might miss on your own good lifelock dot com or call one eight hundred lifelock and use promo code adam for ten percent off your first year. That's promo code adam at lifelock dot com or one eight hundred lifelock for ten percent off okay so works done in your craving something spicy and salty. I know what i do. Snack on blue diamond was sobbing soy sauce flavored almonds. They're so good and almonds are superfood. Don't deny cravings. Eat them. Blue diamond almonds crave victoriously. You're curb appeal. You know what you see and with the home depot today's the day for doing boost your curb appeal with the best brands at at the best prices from new garage doors colorful flowers exterior lights to a new coat of paint inspiration to installation. You can do it or let at the home depot do it for you. Visit homedepot dot com slash services for more information on installing your next project. Them depot more saving more doing u._s. u._s. Only see store for details just twenty five dollars. You get one favorite stuff oughta ever seen you get the break you choose. It's on and ah ah you heard dick. It's time for the fourth month of atoms monthly nut this ship and includes a fifteen pack of dude wipes on kgo flushable wipes believe you is clean as a whistle three packs of crazy go nuts flavored walnuts a snack the wound make you fat of beat by ace bracelet a helpful reminder to let you know that beats aren't killing you a a copy of not taco bell material with the ray chapter signed by raise himself and of course a bottle of mongolia or thirty three wines. This sixty dollar value is yours for only twenty five dollars. Sign up for one month or keep the shipments coming so prep your mail box and get ready for adams monthly nut hurry we will sell out news break all those crazy trump tweets gino's. It seems like the news with gene grad. We'll send toy brown. That name might sound a little familiar. She is out of prison round. She was the one who spent fifteen eighteen years and a tennessee prison for killing a man who hired her for sex <hes>. She was released on parole. In the early hours of wednesday morning she was convicted of murder when she was sixteen eighteen after shooting and killing this forty three year old man in a motel room. She said she'd been sent by her pimp. Thile reaching for his gun was all over the news two years ago wind up you know there's there's kind of an inherent problem with every every woman except for martha stewart hurson that joint hugo which she was raped as a young girl and then she had that step dad and then there was incest and then she turned to prostitution and then later on she shot this guy in the face and you're like i feel like such a horrible childhood hood and it was so much abused and everything else and you kind of the problem with most people in prison i mean again the the gap in the ghetto eto the elvis song you know they talk about this poor little babies born and the next thing you know he's a teenager and he's in the streets but the kids stand a chance and now he's it now. He's at twenty six and we wanna put the death but i mean did the kid ever have a shot at at anything i you know god knows sixteen prostitutes and first off what was going on at home. Her parents could have been worse in mind. We don't know anything's possible. I mean that was held land dish possible so just a little bit about what she was doing doing all this time in prison <hes> she under g._d. <hes> an associate's degree with a four point oh g._p._a. She became the poster child for prison reform. She attracted celebs like kim kardashian milano no no meek mill and last year outgoing tennessee governor bill has lem commuted her sentence to a lesser charge that pave the way for her release. She'll be on parole for ten years. She she must complete fifty hours of community service shift to get a job fifty hours fifty s. She's ruined the joint for sixteen years and fifteen years and she was sixteen when it happened. Okay joint half your life the nominal workweek of community service when you get out it's really necessary or can i start on this now like i got. I got another time. Can i read some kids yeah. I don't know if you can do community service you mean from inside that'd be sweet. I don't think you you can but it'd be great license plate making i i. I'll fifty hours is not that not that much. I usually get part-time weeks. Yeah i just clean up trash by the side of the freeway monday wednesday and friday for two weeks after you've been in the joint since you were sixteen in your thirty now and thirty one and now square what we tacking the fifty on either. We're letting you out or not seem pointless. I don't what does that and that's the thing. Obviously you know. She has to get a job. Bob and i'm sure there'll be a lot of people outreach programs looking to help her. Wouldn't you rather her start being an ernhert than worry about her community service i would i would i. There's two things i'd worry about one is what if she is picking up garbage by the side of the freeway and gets run over by drunk driver that would be tragic on on the other hand <hes> she could <hes> road justice she. I'm sorry i came but whoever's blown out your hair. There's a new sheriff in town. You've got employees these people you want to get them out. Fine coming your house. She's on the glam squad yeah. I don't want her on the dull. I don't want to take care of her. I don knapp it on my street. Let the compound. That's good yeah like hand <unk> out drinks at the church service on sunday. Whatever you do your eyebrows with a number two pencil <hes> all that important solve important stuff. Yes head over to the kardashians all right good for her. Well this thirty nine year old. Montana man has been charged with assault for allegedly slamming a thirteen year old boy to the ground at fractured skull. Here's way did it. The boy reportedly had failed to remove his baseball cap while the national anthem was being played at the mineral county fairgrounds on saturday. The boy was airlifted to a hospital in washington washington. His parents say continued to bleed from his ear stories now and i'm like a media like please. Don't have the kid be blacks well. He's the guy be white like. I think that way now. Oh oh no oh no well. I think they're both white mary highlight with the guy's wife yeah he's since been released from the hospital. I was slammed. Go either way yeah. That's what i'm saying. The man kurt brockway a quiz or my name is kurt brooklyn was arrested rested saturday night maters initial court appearance on monday. <hes> you might not be shocked to hear this is not as i running with police. He did plead guilty to an assault with a weapons charge. Urge that occurred in two thousand eleven so at least left the weapon at home so you think he told the kid layman and the kid was like buzz off or or he just saw it and set his sights on them now but there are some exchange. There's no way out of nowhere attack. There was a kid doesn't respect fucking old man and then probably tank them thing. I should tell the white kids. I've told the black that kids <hes> do not wrestle with the cops. You shall get shot. That's how that's how it works at ten and two man when they pull you over super slow and everything and everyone can go. Hey you wanna live in that world well to world war less black teenager teenage. Boys get shot so fine do that. I will say this to all. The snot not knows white kids. You're not the boss of me or my dad's. Dad's an attorney. He'll sue you're all the snot nose white kids who grew up with tons of self esteem that are just telling random mortar old ex-marine dudes and go fuck off or southern thick or whatever you could get body slammed. That's gonna happen. I'm not putting it on you but i'm not putting it on. The black kato gets pulled over and the impala either. I'm saying let's try to avoid this. We should also so you guys know. There's rules written rules for how to address the flag right right like hats on hats off blah blah blah blah the crest you probably these are pretty easy to find <hes> women don't take their hats off according to the rules that the published rules for whatever military whatever <hes> i'm wondering if children don't have take their hats off military vets also take our hats off. Oh really that's it's verified this but i think that's the written like as he had that information at the ready adopt. The kid was a military vet but i do i do. There's an inordinate amount of like young. I again kids as as as i walked in my house two days ago and saw aw my daughter and her friend again wearing roller skates in the house like they don't have that sense that we had growing up a fear of other adults also fear of adults in general like if if you were when i was growing up if you were walking down the street and you tore up a tour open a payday barron aren't drop the wrapper on the ground and kept walking any adult any young man excuse you you go pick up and you marsh yourself yourself that you've always oh. My god busted mozart fuck off nanna. The wouldn't be that now. I feel like everyone's doing that. I was watching god hottest saddest thing ever. I was watching some of those videos at the fucking poor cops get in the water dunk dumped on him at some point i thirty six year old boy the six years old who was running with a bucket at the back of the kid it's like are you kidding me the way whoever whoever gave block it six year old like oh god but little healthy respect for the cop and a little healthy respect back <hes> for adults and it'll be a little better world now. I have no idea what the exchange was here. No excuse for this guy broader subject themselves. Thank you percents safe. I'm not saying anything with children but men remove their hats and hold them in the right hands over their hearts. It also applies to women wearing sports. Caps apps retouched. Yeah you're big fascinating. You can leave on all right but the lesbians you gotta pop that that tap interesting all right. Hey did you know that sheryl crowe was a backup singer for michael jackson's on his on his bad tour. It's so dangerous wh- leonard you tell us brian later she had like a big craze pictures like a crazy way gone 'cause it was michael jackson around the stage in life yeah so she spent over a year on the road with them as one of his backup singers in the eighties and hard well according to her not that would make sense not all memories were good ones so she's promoting what she calls her final final album and she tells britain's guardian that she got intensely bad vibes about jackson's relationship so the young boys also. It's gotta know something's up because guys. Let's just say michael is straight. He's just a straight dude. He says the height of his powers. It's got a twenty two year old sheryl crowe and they're staying in hotels hells for the next seven months. You don't think at some point there's all wanna go run a number i with yeah yeah. I'm in my bathroom but we can. We can just go ahead and just choreograph this. It's in your in your room. I take the liberty of champagne yeah. I mean professional for god's sake how fucking fast that's happened with a twenty three year old sheryl crowe where you swing by her her room you staying good business. I mean it's got to happen. It doesn't happen then. Something's up well. I think that was kind of a point because she said in choosing james saved chuck <hes> who was in the documentary that that just came out he was a great kid and the whole time he was with us. Which was the better half of an eighteen month tour. She said i always wondered won the world parents doing i'm sad and mad at a lot of people i feel like there was just a huge network of people apple that allowed to go on. It's just tragic so the young he's traveling with. The young kid freaked out the backup singers again. You know who who why didn't she say something something. You know who is the whistle blower who gets to say something the part where we tell people to say something or how come they did or why didn't they say something. They should've said something. That's a real tall order for most the wiring of most human human beings it it obviously it's real tall because nobody ever very rare occasion. Do we have a whistle blower in that kind kind of situation and when you work for some chemical company and they're dumping stuff into the river people will pipe up and in those situations nuanced. It's social. It's weird. It's it's just goes against most of humanity's wiring and i don't even know that it's like wow she's scared for her job. I dunno chiefs probably super talented and probably not that scared for her job per se but if at some point you have to announce this to somebody and that's just a weird place to go. Oh yeah and that's why this stuff seemed to work for so long. It's because people just don't go there. I don't think they wanna go oh there. I just think it feels like they just wanna go. I don't wanna think about that and you don't know so then. You're the one who's making this big proclamation that unless us you like literally walk in on michael jackson having sex with a little kid everything else you can in your mind. You can kind of jesse just or find a like possible explanation explanation like us with those kids. I mean maybe he's just you know really in demand and like he says the kids so why wouldn't you spend time with kids well and also oh imagine there would be a lot more reporting if there wasn't so much baggage and sort of sort of a part of society that no one ever wants to think about that subject. No one p pavone wanna talk about it. You know what i mean. It's there's so much attached to it if it was just a neutral subject like if it was like i think accountant is skimming money from the till. It's something that have anything attached. Stew and people are much more likely to say something sense. Yes yeah so we were just talking about pita and they are in the news was and they have some thoughts though it's been a tonight show staple for decades. Pita has taken issue with the popular animal segments in a letter to the new york health department. The animal rights organization claims the creatures are being mistreated. They want an investigation pita sites segments call involving grant kammerer of wild world of animals most including a segment where an actress poked a bullfrog <hes> the organization says and i quote animal suffer every time they're exposed to the chaos of television set and passed around like props pitas calling authorities to throw the book at this hack for brazenly violating on camera the clear conditions of his exhibitor permits funny conversation when i go to pete unexplained you know you guys have jumped the shark and they went. There'll be no shark jumping on our watch and i'm no. I'm saying you jump in that that okay. Let's the report consents. I know yeah well. You know what i say all the time they eventually they run out of stuff but the cause remain right right like you have to keep rolling there. There must al sharpton still needs to earn money and do what al sharpton does. We don't need al sharpton. We needed martin luther king. We don't need al sharpton or maybe we needed al sharpton in nineteen seventy eight. We don't need him in two thousand nineteen. He's out hustling up new business now now and it's a little sperry and that's what i've been saying about pita like we're in pretty good shape with animals but now pitas going to have to expand right and isn't that y you know when there was all these extra cougars coming down off of griffith park and you know out of the santa monica mountains and things didn't that have to do with <hes> with pita getting involved involves so you couldn't call the population you couldn't tag them and you know and and track the animals so they just breeding and breeding and now they're in neighborhoods like let's feels there. I don't know all the ins and outs. I know that be careful. What you ask for you know you know th the conservationists survey sionist and hunters or actually seemed to be pretty good. I don't know i i'm not a hunter and i i've never even been hunting and i would have difficulty hunting. Hey i couldn't i wasn't any good fishing because i couldn't do live bait and put like the whole put it through the i the men on it's like i don't. I'm not a fan a week with the motor. City eighty madman is yeah but but my thing is i go shoot clay pigeons all day long but they have a pretty good idea about the heard erred in finding the heard and i've heard feed on itself are have this group spring up because there's too many of that or whatever it is. They're pretty fair air idea now if you just look at everything that was ever put on this planet is is precious and if any of them perished. It's it's a tragedy then. It's gonna be hard. You have to have a little. That's how nature works nature thins it out. You know what i mean. There's a version of that with forest fires and things the things that we do it the opposite way. We put animals in captivity that breed them to bring back the population. We we also call herds to diminish the population relation. I don't have a. I'm pretty consistent about it. Which is whether it's a mom and her four year old walking from guatemala to the san diego border or the mexican border or it's a horned bullfrog. That's at the san diego zoo. My question is what's it doing outside of the zoo. Whatever its prospects like housing going to stay in the stay a in the zoo the san diego zoo up saying you just walked from guatemala. At least you're at a place with got some clean drinking water and a fan turning earning like. I don't know what you were coming from. You decide to walk here from from your own country. I'm assuming you weren't living the life of reilly where you're from and now you're at a place the we'd be pretty miserable living at but it's better than being on the outside of that place and i feel that way the lava when it comes into this stuff too like when i what is the prospect of your life outside of this place now eventually i wanna get the get. The animals reunited process aston mowing my lawn for now. You say you said animals said animals. I think he meant immigrants. You'll probably confuse. You're talking about pita slip of the tongue long who move on. I don't find why you making something on enough. Where you can check i mentioned every every every living thing earth being precious to certain people and it sounds absurd but then again so did a white girl identifying as a black girl and lo and behold that just happened like one day like will it be long before pita is like against like killing bacteria and viruses germs against like bleach they move they move right. It sounds crazy but is that it's a living creature and he should be firmly antiabortion. I oh yeah they're not. That's your weird thing. I'm sure they're not antiabortion of. I'm sure i don't know why but they. I'm sure they are but i think they've gotten down to cockroaches. I don't know if they got mosquitoes. Ah coming for virus yet but <hes> the common coming for your organization. Oh by the way coming speaking of coming for like comfort your guns <hes> somebody tweeted let me and they said you're raven mass shooter school protection idea what if the people i went into the classroom and shooter went in classroom and shut the door. I said you know a lot of places kind kind of commercial places the doors on on pneumatic closer for fire purposes but there are the lot of them or you need them open in. They're open and they're held open automatically like through a magnet or something like that. You could be a little <hes> but the doors would be opened unless there was a fire when when someone hit the fire thing and then the doors close so there's a mass shooting anna fire at the same time i don't know that's bad but we could have and i was sort of thinking and having a raven in every classroom well but you can have one that just roam the halls and as long as all the doors were opened with my fire. My fire system went to work like you said like those pneumatic doors. They take what four seconds to close it right and get a get in there yeah but it wouldn't close because it it only be done. If there was a fire that was in the school under those or don't ever clash. I was in had window. One minute just stays open just yeah we got to potty train these ravens to three and a half to put a dent in your hood right no but if you put them in a store in eh gets shat upon del. You're going to hear about it no business luck. There's only one thing there's one thing and one thing only you can get a cab camp to do and that shit in a box and you're in your apartment right. I mean that's the only thing you can train a cat to do. A cat will not do anything it. We'll shit in a box. It's sure well so with that in mind with a cat that's completely untrainable but we can give you the one thing i bet we could get a raven to figure that one out because there's so much more trainable and so much smarter let me hit the no bull here demand more from your workout gear looked down on it my feet as we speak. I'm wearing my noble running right now. They are nice i did i walked into my son's room with them and scored some cool points nobil elbow <hes> footwear apparel accessories for people to train hard <hes> they don't believe in excuses gear built to perform with you simple and functional don't design grounded in performance no gimmicks no excuses have multi environment designed built for <hes> wherever your workout takes you you and stuff's been designed by trainers and weightlifters and it's good for like interval stuff. It's good for lifting. It's good for cardio. Whatever ever you do whatever you dish out. This stuff is top shelf man extremely durable breathable abrasion resistant material runners honors with light weight breathable stretch knit upper and upper move with you. It's really good strong stuff. It is no bull right dawson. If you're ready to challenge your gear the way you challenge yourself to noble project dot com slash adam today for people who put in the work day after day visit noble project dot com slash adam and check out their training gear. That's an o._b. V._u. l. l. p. r. o. J. dot com slash adam all right what else we got. She well monica lewinsky will tell her side of the one thousand nine hundred scandal affair with a president president bill clinton as she about the handbags and the club nautical lips. I wanna hear all about she's gonna produce on the f._x. Networks impeachment impeachment american crime story ryan murphy refused to make this series without her perspective which has been overrun mother's nightmare that data bats nightmare very rare to monica lewinsky store a father's nightmare. What's your lewinsky in eh. The toilet <hes> came out oh bob lewiston. Oh wait a minute. You blow job. Was your grandfather. No komo lewinsky in the head over there. We took a down the stall. She just gave me a nice lewinsky. What do you think i'd take some pride is that smell the same way as the exact same as actually the same name grandfather to come over from the old country of at the no. I mean yes. He did nothing to do with the oral sex her you know in fact no-one called that until well after i was in adult after children. I reminded children are adults. Phil zoe's been around. I guess you're right. I think about about an blowjob lewinsky got lewinsky glacier. Oh wait a minute was that power hitter played for the philly's background greg credit. Who was that craig coup who polish anyway yeah guy. I'm really dude named after that guy power hitter from the phillies cranston ransom we'll go on with a roleplaying seventies power hitter greg and you go mike schmidt. I'm gonna die through that glass. Choke you anyway was named after it wasn't wasn't hamid vuckovich or any of those guys from that era. The bull yeah sorry yeah so is the answer her. Let's since key was it named after that guy know a lot of people think we're related but it's actually the same was your last name lazinski to not at all lewinsky. Oh yeah that is actually the same spelling dude. Would you have a son or something got got a little out of his lane. I have a son but now he's a dentist. We're very proud of them. Had a private practice for twenty five years recall blowjob lewinsky was look. I don't wanna have to go all twenty three and me on your ass but i need some answers at some point. I go monica your youngest what she up to well funny to ask your part of the reason there's night there. That's it. This is the one we everything else is mother's nightmare. I think this is the dads. I think this is the dad because you gotta show at work and if found some spunk daughter strength was awarded the to the prom or selling management all of these questions before okay did she wear that to the deadball different drastically rated x. four guy to show work every halloween people came dresses your daughter l. christ in you know the part where like have the affair with the president okay but department under the desk and the cigar and everything the details how many cigars got left on the dad's desk were girl. What's it called american the american crime story impeachment american crime story this father's nightmare. Please tack that on. Please give us the one. Was this the series is that have like o._j. F._x. I believe guess who's playing monica lewinsky and you might need to see a picture of her brian. You'll pineau. She has but you'll see some similarities. They get names in these this one again. You might not know as well but she's she's a decent up in combat from spending s._n._l. S._n._l. <hes> beanie feldstein jonah hill right. Oh yeah i was in <hes> what the fuck was dead. You're thinking of e._s._p._n. Your looksmart smart s._n._l. Your v._c._r. strong well. She does look like her and okay and this is all good <hes> she unfortunately looks like jonah hill as well so good news and bad news girl yeah these miniseries our trash. Oh you mean trash means amazing. I've never missed one people like the o._j. One whole ever get into a bit of hot water when the the the creator came in here and i'm like you guys did a cheek right obsolete housing put it wasn't like a joke as the word moment this so sarah paulson who was in who played marcia clark. She is in this playing linda tripp. I will not miss this for the world. Is there kind of complete. Elite tongue-in-cheek miserable wins about now like feel like god. We gotta get into this like we gotta do this. I mean it's just miserable all. Do you think at some point when hillary's stops running for stuff she'll say busta <hes> enough's enough. We got to get a divorce. I can't i can't be linked to your legacy for the uae word movies coming out at this point one at the matter wait a minute. Who is the was it linda tripp. We're i'm trying to figure out. She looks like a bigger. No i mean linda. I mean that's what i'm saying. Play linda tripp here. What actually still looks liars. Here's what i'm saying. What i'm saying a father's nightmare an agent's nightmare you gotta call your client and tell them no not watch. No no no. We're looking for linda tripp. I want you to play linda. Tripp who was very difficult to look at on is i'm saying it's a weird call and then the person ever really gonna be twenty eight and go. Let me see what you look. Oh god how how could be huge man right yeah wow okay so she's she's getting into it a- and and and this is all going to be just firsthand account and i think and so ryan murphy ryan murphy's <hes> thinks that monica deserves serves to quote make all the money from her story so maybe that's why she was brought on as a producer says she she gets a nice cut from this version boy yeah that'll be interesting. Just nobody knew and a weird way for these guys are for these people. It's like when we're talking to kristie candy and it's like you got four hundred bucks to go lewinsky on ron jeremy over there but you never knew beyond the internet a thousand years from tanya it did it right near you never get paid again and all kinds of stuff like you know clinton had to think by you know whatever two thousand this thing's aw aw back and just rip the band aid off and we live everything just all the time civil war statues. Whoever carve are those enemy like all right. We're good we made the sixties. We're fine you know here. We are until back yeah man that that just open a can of whoop ass on the past. Just we're going after the hard past the the past doesn't get a pass what i'm saying well said all right. Let me <hes> the astral castro-led stronger under under pressure castrol edge with fluid titanium transforms under pressure keep the metal parts from rubbing and robin and his three times stronger than leading full synthetic and the viscosity breakdown tasked with the <hes> fifty. W thirty viscosity grade edge formula woah always exceeds toughest industry standards. That's why it's castrol edge all right. Let's do one more you got it well. According to a new study shows that there is is an uptick in summer marriage proposals according to the study one of the best ways to propose to someone you love is to take them to minnesota under the guise of it being for your mother's birthday party and then pop the question under your child's bedroom window because that's what andy did yes and we got engaged. Eh hail do this talking about very local news congratulates congratulations. I'm going to take you guys out to dinner. I i should know in advance. She'll be uh-huh fair. Totally fair and i apologize for waiting. We've been dealing with some logistical and custody stuff and just kind of need to get through some stuff and happy and celebrate and i'm really excited. Oh it's great. I'm so happy i love this turn. I love the step world's greatest step mom i. I love that turn. It's nice. I'm like i'm a step mom. That's that kid is my whole heart next to next to dad there and we're having a good time and i love it well. The good news is everyone by the time the your steps on gets into deep therapy but as time the kid gets into audience elephants time gets into his twenties and you start having everyone's going to have a step parent and then you're going to have everyone inevitably has a story about yeah. You think you're step. Mom is a bit gonna fuck it story for you to clean out the fireplace even have a fireplace that pitchy like as ah everyone tells us stories about zeros and bitches or whatever <hes> not your boy. I think he's gonna chime in and say. I had a killer step. Yeah was awesome. It's awesome so i i know nothing beyond that we re and actually this is my grandmother's old wedding band so we're not even into the whole all the pomp and circumstance and engagement rings. We're not there yet lose his second marriage right yes and but it feels like the i for him as he says and in my i i have successfully ended in divorce shouldn't feel like the first that's right the third a very good point. That's the one you take to the grave lucky number three. No this is the tragic yeah that's and then it gets really okay. Both wives drowned in the tub coincidence. Yeah roll the dice and this is my. This is my first engagement. I've i've not not considered myself to be someone who was the marian type. I and i kind of decided since with theresa the other day 'cause i talked to raise everything and we talked about a little bit and i said you know it's just i don't know it's for other people and i kept saying it's other people's for other people and then i had this sad sort of basic bitch therapeutic lightning crash thought. Why do i keep saying other people. I think i mean better people i other people. I think that's what that's what normal people do. That's normal. People get to experience and now i'm i guess i'm sort of being tugged a little more toward <hes> toward normal people do and people who are allow themselves to be happy and i'm very excited about it good i think i think that's a i can't super important move. I think people the marriage with parenthood with all that kind of stuff they look at all the possible things that can go wrong <hes> they never tell you about all this stuff that can go right and you know look the statistics back it up. I mean the married people live longer. They're happier. They make a little more money. You know so on and so forth. It's a it's a it's. It's on whole a good thing. You can't really take any endeavor work a sport. You love tame. You love marriage children especially family. You look at kids you if you if you look at the totality it's a good thing if you want to start getting into forms arms of childhood cancer then that's another conversation but you have to everything owning a car is good in tau in big picture and it's not good when you're key-fobs bob gone and you have to drive altima for seven weeks but i mean what do you want a car or wouldn't you if the answer's yes then. It's good good good good on you. <hes> what are you gonna wear the wedding certainly not white how dare you by the way i don't know if this is going to be the <hes> you know a a free sort of japanese garden thing in encino type affair or if i'm gonna make everyone's schlep down to pioneer because you know i love joshua tree but i i hope that all of if you'll be there even if it's a slap in i'll keep you posted. Thank you congratulate artie convenient as possible. Bring in my mind yeah you got it grad and that's the news girl laura that was the news with gina grad add few backyard marriages mine was mike august got married and my backyard ozzy's dot everton year their backyard yeah well. I mean she was there mowing the lawn anyway. He just opened a in all the day. Come on now only about this and see what we can do. You know it's it's <hes> i weddings announcer. Backyard stuff is <hes> nice obviously deposit crews into about to read de facto about jesus. I think i think you just did chris august august. Come try to sell a live podcast at your wedding. I'll do that shit star jones who had every aspect of her wedding sponsored flowers by so and so would you if you're looking for the wight version of this kathy griffin wedding i remember i think i went to that wedding. I think she had everything oh everything was farmed out a woman after my own heart chick if kathy i know star. I probably did it too. <hes> all right. Let me tell you guys <hes> monteray. Still some tickets left golden state theater that is coming up on saturday. August seventeenth will be racing over their combined say hi to us at the track will be there with the big red car portland napa west palm beach for the for the cruise salt lake city across dot com and at checkout not taco bell material and check out our comedy youtube page as as well you go to youtube dot com slash curl say hi to <hes> murder made me famous at <hes> podcast check that podcasts podcasts out a mother's nightmare over there as well and i wanna thank <hes> good sports coming up richard sokoll in for coming in an elvis in vegas the name his book until next time. This is an for richard and jean a grand ball by saint mahala. No no have a money cigarette. Today's episode of good sports damage checking wall. It's coming right up curb appeal you know it when you see it and with the home depot today's the day for doing boost boost your curb appeal with the best brands at the best prices from new garage doors to colorful flowers exterior lights to a new coat of paint inspiration to installation installation. You can do it or let the home depot do it for you. Visit homedepot dot com slash services for more information on installing your next project the home and depot more saving more doing u._s. Only see store for details race. The broadcast warned sports goods sports high to low sports fans. Welcome to brand new episodes good sports dave damage shak here adam karol over there as i love talking about pigskin. It's the best time of the year. Get excited and really it is. I'll tell you one thing that's an odd. I don't think i brought this up to you. The notion of parody <hes> i feel like you. I'm my guess would be is that you like parody. I don't and whether you you like it or not. That's what pro football has over. The other leagues is it feels right now and this has been true for the last couple of years. How many teams can you rightly say has no chance of going to the plaza class that day. I can tell you you know what i bet one of your cars or whatever on it that you would say i know that team can't go to the playoffs outside of maybe the the dolphins this year well. They've the team that wins the most games. It's going to the playoffs <hes> right now. Everyone's record is eva. Everybody's everybody's just got a big doughnut in the win column. They also got donut in the loss column. No games have been played so this first day school. Everyone's either a student or an f student now. It'll be up to the people in this locker room to decide whether we walk off offer this stage but what if people outside the locker room don't believe in the guys in the locker room then what it's only about what they don't believe. They don't think that's gonna be. That's gonna be limiting the people outside of this locker room. Don't believe i mean except for the staff. Obviously there's maintenance well so everybody their locker room. Obviously someone's got to come in and clean out about the what about the home crowd leagues masochists. They're showing up to watch their team lose because they don't believe even them but people believe in this team. Yeah are the people inside of this locker room. Now we have special teams coach step out of the locker room to make a phone call but he but that's like a technicality feel like the whole he's not routing he does he still believes is physically he. Maybe he was calling somebody to let them know to try and spread the word the paint locker room and i'm gonna just go ahead and carve out vendors <hes>. I'm going to carve out folks in charge ars in the maintenance locker room. I'm gonna go ahead and carve out the folks who actually tend to the field the groundskeepers these are believers who are outside locked outside the locker room but they're loosely affiliated with the goings on of the team so they're kiss did jay leaving they. There's there's what we call. The chain and gang k. unfortunately named for a prison gang. These folks have no criminal record to my now. I love i love. I love the billion dollar industry the business then why do you why do you have seventy eight year old man holding a chain to establish a uh-huh ridiculous wait a measure things literally and figuratively seasons can come down to that. I held the stake like this. If you hired fired morty walk the walk the foot too far if you hired a mexican paving contractor and he was using that to lay out your your patio you'd be pissed. Come on get a laser. What'd you figure this out. I know they're deciding super bowls with the i love i i. I certainly loved the regular season cliches but i think that a a one eighty two that are the preseason cliches. I don't know if you've heard as but a lot of people people are going to be shocked by what they see out of this guy this year i thought for some of the guys in the league things are things are really slowing down now. The other guys are playing a lot faster now. Yeah they're playing fast. Guys are in the best shape or their careers the game it's weird because you can slow oh down which is not good but if you slow down the game than that in that that you want to have happen right that's right you want it to the game to slow down not you you wanna enemy faster and if you get your lights knocked out. That's not good but if you're playing lights out that is good. That's a an interesting a bit of nuance. Also a lot of teams are going to have a plan to come out there and punch them in the mouth watering in the if anybody takes that literally which yeah i would think is some percentage of people. Would i think you'll get at least you'll get a fifteen yard. Flag probably kicked out of the game and a hefty fine too so don't else don't punch somebody in the mouth but do come out and punch the other team in the mouth but don't actually do a an individual to speeches kind of fly in each others face. They'll do the nobody outside of. This locker. Room believes in this team and then they'll go. We're walking around and with targets on our back what you target a team. You don't believe in yeah right. Everyone's circled their calendar for us. When we come into their her state was talking to you. Tom brady can't go with both right. Yeah go with both lame narratives in two thousand nine hundred ninety one or the other you look. It's human human nature if you don't believe in the ability of a team or an individual then they don't have a target on their back. You're not worried about them. Precisely yeah can't have both you can't be in locker room filled with people at targets on their back and then everyone outside the locker room has no eros 'cause. They don't believe i'll tell you this much. I think that offense this year is going to be a nightmare for opposing. Oh defensive coordinators <music> are gonna stay up all night trying to strategize. It's also dumb but i can't wait for it anyway. I do think think the i i keep thinking about if you went into a coma at around the super bowl and woke up now. What would be the most surprising things. Antonio brown's not on the steelers eleven bells on the jets odell. Beckham is on the browns people think the browns are gonna be a super bowl contender this year. What would stunned you the most. I don't know but if i had my druthers of ways i could slip into a coma. Yeah it would be meat-based. It'd be the over consumption of smoked meat which sent me into my football coma. Yeah that's nice. I people complaint. You know who the talk about talk about. The people people looking a gift horse in the mouth. What is that about again to. I've looked up their root of that. Cliche is so in gives you a free or in houston zuniga's disease. I hear a lot of complaints about getting the meat sweats and everything else. That's when you know you're living you ingested so oh much meat you can literally smell it while you're laying there and the bed at three thirty in the a._m. I'm in heaven. I wonder if they're you know everything kinda. Nature knows knows what they're doing. You know knows what she's doing and there's always some reason you know when they talk about. Oh the dog circle around before they lay down on the carpet well their ancestors out in the seren gatty wild dogs would want to tamp down the the high brush before they you know whatever that connection is. Whenever there are some ancient <hes> physiological reason for the meat sweats like after consuming a buffalo. If another other tribe attempted to attack you could slip out of their half nelson grip much easier your oiled yeah of course you were docile because your belly was full but it made you slippery escape. It's the same thing as a porcupine in some on some level or a turtle. That's your built in defense mechanism. You don't have to fight right back. You just have to merely be able to resist the attack. That's right with with interestingly yeah with the flesh of another beast flowing through you providing providing the oil that resistant another beasts attack a turn for the homo erotic football david. Yes dell and you have something to add here. This gift horse demolishes pretty cool <hes> so if somebody gives gifts you a whore if this is the if this is redundant redundant with adam explaining it and eleven seconds i am going to be able to be rude to look into their mouth to check how long their teeth are because. That's how you'd see like oh. Is this this horth long hours. How old rude to be like how good of a gift is this really gift really so that's it. It's a little well what i said but the the how old is the horse rather have hoof and mouth disease. I guess or you know what you know what i won't stand for being the last one thing i'm not gonna do is is be attacked. Yes get the get the blaster radio plaster. I what do you mean. You don't have all right. We'll put it. We have the blast play the blast. Get me my hand solo addition blaster mr if you don't have a hand solo addition blast or what are you supposed to do here in the twenty first century or if you happen to reside in a galaxy long ago <hes> far far away. I don't know why for somebody who's seen that movie nine hundred seventy three times i can never get that line right that <hes> starts each each installment of that movie either way whether you're are under attack on tattooing or here on the planet earth you gotta watch your personal information and that's why i want to tell you about lifelock it could be at the hands of of the evil empire or i don't know who might do this but you know let me tell you about a database that was the that belong to a chinese smart home device company and it was left exposed and it included more than two billion logs containing everything from user passwords to account reset coats. They're so many threats in today's connected world world the universe even it just takes one weak link for criminals to get in like how the rebels figured out that there were not just one death star but in multiple multiple deaths stars they can figure out why why the evil empire they're a bunch of evil geniuses but they can't figure out how to protect the nerve centre of these death star so they don't continually go to the trouble of building them in there having them blown up by rebel attackers. Don't let rebel attackers come and get you not that you're an evil empire. You gotta protect your personal personal information. Don't leave it exposed because when someone gets to it they can commit identity theft so good thing lifelock identity theft protection ads the power of norton security to help protect you against threats to your devices that you can't easily see or fix on your own. Unfortunately i would. I would let <hes> you know pal patine gene invade or know about this but that was a long time ago and they're both dead at this point cal kaelin. Tell us more no one can prevent all identity theft or cybercrime or monitor transactions at all businesses but lifelock security canc- threats you might miss on your own go to lifelock dot com or call one eight hundred lifelock and use promo code adam for ten percent off your first year. That's promo code adamant lifelock dot com or one eight hundred lifelock for ten percent off very nice kaelin very nice. Adam corolla will be back with more good sports <hes> tomorrow for you until then four corolla damaged goods sports and you can follow the adam corolla on twitter at adam corolla show you can follow us on twitter at adam adam girl that you should subscribe to corolla classics hosted bikers locks giovanni she'd also subscribe to take a knee for a weekly dose of inspiration and motivation click lincoln adam corolla throw it on com- leaves voicemail eighty six three four one seven four four ginger zee the as man right now at adam corolla dot com plus stay tuned for a be news curb appeal. You know what you see c._e._o. And with the home depot today's the day for doing boost your curb appeal with the best brands at the best prices from new garage doors to colorful flowers exterior dear your lights to a new coat of paint inspiration to installation. You can do it or let the home depot do it for you. Visit homedepot dot com slash services for more information on installing your next project. The home depot more saving more doing u._s. Only see store for details trump's visit. I'm tim maguire the a._p. News just minutes after he and first lady melania trump visited the those hospitalized following the passos shooting the left twenty two people dead president trump met with police and first responders we went to the hospital just came from the hospital. We were there a lot longer than we were anticipated to be. It was supposed to be just a fairly quick. We met and with numerous people we met with also the doctors the medical staff <hes> they have done an incredible job earlier today. Trump visited the dayton ohio where nine people were killed early sunday morning democrats including some running for president denounced trump for his rhetoric former vice president joe biden telling a crowd in iowa offers. I know moral leadership seems to have no interest in unifying this nation. No evidence that the presidency has awakened is conscious in the lease. A recent pew poll finds a majority of those questioned feel trump has changed the political debate for the worse. I'm tim maguire.
"Inside of you is brought to you by fat scooters. Yes that's fat scooters. It's ph a._t. Fat scooters. I've got to guy my buddy zach. He just bought like twelve of these things. I love these things. They put they make your own. Personalized decks got inside of you. You've seen sean astin right on one when he was over here when i was interviewing him. <hes> got a video out there. If you want to check it out these these things are just damn sweet. They sell themselves. I mean honestly. I love them. They're these fat tires. Literally these fat tires you feel safe. You know the up to twenty miles an hour and up to fifty miles in a single battery charge so you can cruise all over town without using any gas or searching for a parking spot. I i love these electric scooters. There's visit fat scooters dot com. I'll tell you what if you get one now. You're gonna be <hes> entered into this contest promo code fat rosie if you buy one and <hes> if you win then we're going to go for a ride together. We're gonna cruise together somewhere. We'll figure it out where maybe the beach. I don't know maybe my neighborhood but visit fat scooters dot com and join the electric scooter revolution now. That's scooters dot com use the code fat rosie when you buy a scooter p. h. A. r. s. e. y. You'll enter the contest and you can ride with me. You're listening to inside of you with michael rosenbaum guys. I wanna thank you for all your support and don't worry inside of you is is still hanging around. We're <hes>. We're doing it without your support. We wouldn't be doing and i see so many people wearing shirts and telling on their friends and i've just been enjoying the hell out of this. I really found purpose and <hes> i found you and you found me and so keep listening and spread the word on another good note before we get into matthew lillard. I have a new podcast of course inside of you will still here. Don't worry on tuesdays but starting on monday hey august twenty sixth in love with michael rosenbaum and chris sullivan chris sullivan. This is us nominated for an emmy guardians of the galaxy. <hes> what else the nick i mean the guy's been in everything. He's the nicest sweetest guy who's a guest on inside of you and we just became friends and were like why don't we do a podcast. He's married. I'm single goal we had we talked to are married friends. My ex girlfriend was on the show on the new show and she brought her baby in why didn't work out with us just a real inner in in her interesting <hes> perspective on relationships and we talk about what we're grateful for what we love. It's <hes>. I think you're going to really enjoy it today. On inside of you were going to air the teaser zor for in love with michael rosenbaum chris sullivan and it's a five minute teaser. I hope you'll listen to follow us on all the social media at in love podcast on twitter instagram facebook facebook. There's a hotline you can call up and leave messages and ask us questions chris and i will be happy to answer them three two three two zero seven five six seven six. I'm going to listen to the teaser caesar then we'll get into matthew lillard but remember every monday starting on the twenty sixth in love with michael rosenbaum and chris sullivan. Let's listen to that teaser. Welcome to in love with michael rosenbaum and chris sullivan where we explore the universal language of love walked through the struggles of love loss together navigate the bumpy and gratifying road to happiness manta then uh-huh said speed for bird standing beautiful. You know i call up press and i said i wanna do a show with you because i like you. You're on my podcast inside side of you with michael rosenbaum. I like you. You're good human being and i as i get older. I want to surround myself with better. Human beings people. I care about people who care about me me people who want to see me do better and i just felt like instantly. You said hey every day. I like to text a friend what i'm grateful for <hes> mhm in the morning and i was like what who are you an hollywood. I started like finding myself texting going chris. I'm grateful for my dogs. I'm grateful oh that i woke up this morning. I'm grateful even to my ex girlfriend for dumping me. I'm grateful and by being grateful. It's a necessity in life and it just made me think think i wanna do a podcast about. I don't even know what it's about in the beginning until we sort of hashed it out. We might have talked about it well. We said let's talk about the things that were in love with. There's enough negativity tippety flying around. There's enough sarcasm. There's enough irony so let's talk about the things that we love talk about the people we love. Let's talk about how we love others. Let's talk about our friendship and how it's life in general and it's just not you know it's not always good looking. There's lost love. I've been brokenhearted everybody out there has been you know. They've had their heart broken. You've heartbroken. It's like how do you keep love. How do you deal with lost love. This is a show about what chris well. It's a show about being in love being perpetually single sharing in your life with someone sleeping with two dogs. We're gonna talk about what it means to be vulnerable. I don't know what that means. I know we're gonna talk about couples therapy. I don't talk about going to couples therapy alone. We're gonna talk about having respect for your partner. Farting whenever you want see on the in love podcast we are going to break down things that we love you've and we will talk to you our listeners and our guests about the things that they love and in the end we hopefully will come out better friend that are lovers will not you me ah yeah they get it and better human being. I mean that's good. We'll have our listeners. Call the in love hotline you answering your question. I liked this because this is kind of cool so every week. We'll i'll have a hotline. The in love hotline number is three two three two seven five six seven six and you guys your questions will be answered. Hopefully we'll pick the best ones keep from short twenty seconds or thirty seconds and we're gonna do the to the best of our knowledge between a single guy who's been single his whole life guy who's married. You know we've been through everything together. We're going to give you are opinion. I'm with things you should do. Ask us questions about love about life about relations yacht rock we have <hes> we have all of the answers on that subject and you know what celebrity guests it's in their partners will come in on some of these shows. They'll give us some insight into what makes their relations ships work and you know. Celebrities are fucked up. You know their relationships hardly ever work most the time. Can you get mandy moore and her husband no but i can probably get michael moore listen. We're going to bring my wife in dude. I think that's a great idea because i wanna hear the shit because because there's no way it's a perfect marriage. Listen what we have realized that <hes> especially when it comes to relationships it's not about the one there is no the one it's about about the work and you put the work in and you get out what you put in. I liked we're also gonna talk to your ex girlfriends. We are to your assistant <hes> mhm nondisclosure. That's right well. We're tearing it up because because because we going to discuss why you were single and what what keeps going wrong but if anybody's listening to this that's girl which hopefully we'll have a female listeners <hes> maybe they won't wanna be because i'm going to be honest and vulnerable about things. I'm not going to give you bunch of bullshit listen. That's one of the things i like about the show. This is going to be us being honest and anytime we're gonna call bullshit honesty and vulnerability even even in in situations where someone may have flaws or may have some kind of damage is attractive michael. Thank thank you. I think chris now i j i i am damaged. I think we're all damaged. We're all broken people just trying to put ourselves back together and maybe on this podcast. We can help each other do that every week. Come join us and <hes> hopefully become better people in this dark dark world. Let's bring some light into this world brother little bit of love and love with michael ross perot and chris sullivan beautiful <music>. You're blown away by the europe palace of masculinity this alyssa masculine is that what it is yes us why because first of all you have get like you have stuff. You're a collect your your nature is to collect things. I i don't have that look around. There's like jerseys. Masculine jerseys in their signed by dudes were probably sweaty when they signed it. Am i covering up something. Is that what you're insinuating. You have great apps in much right now out of great apps g._m._c. my odds anybody with a t shirt could cover their apps. I look like a thin guy. I but maybe my absurd adlass. I'm telling you i really don't want prove. You're in good shape. I'm i'm just i'm. I'm not in good shape. Just did a movie. No no you did something because your hair has really yes. I have blonde hair now. I think you look good blonde. My <hes> my wife is not appreciative appreciative. She is not interested in having a has been middle aged. What else like how do you how old are you. Why are you on these young kids. Get it makes me you feel old. Goddamn it now. Let me tell you something. Isn't it exciting for you because your wife gets to have sex with a different person. I'm not interested. We're not having sex with because because she doesn't like your hair yeah well because we've been together for twenty years. You was long partner. You've ever three years said partner to well. I'm just very going to assume anything in this day. Listen i a lot of people assumed i'm gay in the well. Is that true my mom my <hes> my family friends iran's you know when you're in hollywood and your actor. I played transvestites. I've been getting movies. People could say that but i'm very comfortable. Sex doesn't bother me sir. I'll kiss a man on the left. I kiss you right now. If you brush your teeth it's all good breath. It's not about gender. I've had coffee have coffee. Breath is probably not the best you've ever add. Do you pretty these scratchy but i do applaud their intimate moment. Thank you for being inside of you today. Matt miller matthew matt anything this side of shit head oh really yeah. How long have you been doing this by the way let's podcasts yeah. I mean really we had a launch in june. Was our real launch. Start the show. Did you bank a bunch of them. Yeah we had quite a few in fact we have. You know if i go off to do a show or whatever a movie. I have like a comfort three months zone. Oh wow so ah we bump up. The guest is good no pressure or something's coming on stripping right now to strip a new thing. I'm gonna do the entire nudity indeed. You're taking your shirt off right now. I'm a guy you have a great body spin that people think you're really naked terrible. I know you're like. I don't have have always been that tall guy oddly fat on the inside but you did a movie about a kid who is overweight right. Did you rented a movie called fat. Kid rules the world yeah. It was was does any of that inspired by like you of course yeah thank god. How were you fat as a child who was fats not the right word. What's the word obese. That sounds goes. I wasn't obese. It doesn't matter that here's the funny thing people are like you. I always talk about my weight for some reason. I always make joke about not having alps or <hes>. It doesn't matter actually what you are physically because he'd be in in good shape. If you still feel aguirre fat kid then you're always gonna feel like a fact you know. It's funny as i've i still feel like the small small kid in high school. Got picked on the kid didn't get laid couldn't get nailed in woodshop right. You know that's i do feel like that. I even though oh i have confidence and all that stuff but i still have that feeling of like sherve that little boy who didn't get approval from his daddy so i i understand the psychology psychology of that yeah so what you're saying is. You've always felt yeah. I lo- look i've always felt like he. You know i mean for me like like high. School isn't a great time have a great well at severe learning disability. What what was that last no dyslexia i couldn't i couldn't process assess auditorium so i if you tell me the rules of math like you explain it. Somebody has to explain it to you and to look at it on the board and they explain it. I does not go through my brain. I i read it like if you give me a history book money. I could read a really not me. I couldn't do mouth opposite. I like when people teach me things that they're a good teacher and they can articulate in a way that's interesting and pleasant and for some reason there was those those good teachers like mrs around my history teacher she she made history interesting <hes> mrs muller with english we did romeo and juliet and i got like eight he minus on the fucking quiz scher that i mean because she was interest now. Were you a good reader. I don't think i'm going to read. I think i have a._d._d. So what happens is i read and i read three pages and realized i don't know what the fuck i read right and i got to do something you do that. Are you reading you comprehend. You get really crazy. Reading comprehension see that's amazing because i think think that's why it's harder for me to learn line lines these days. No it's because you're all how old are you held. It happens. Did your brain starts to fall. I mean it just doesn't oh my god if you're working if you're like you know if you're working a lot if you're on a show like that muscle comes back does yay a test screening for a show and and now i'm like oh my god. I learned these long. I still learn these line. You've to go and get a job in light eight of not having a job like it's always easy to job if you have pocketful money and you've been working and you go from one thing to the next thing but it's it's in that space happens and that fear starts to creep in that really swells rally for you. You have a family so you're not just thinking about matt lillard. You're thinking about messes lower. What's the mrs name. Heather have their lillard yeah. It's one thousand years of marriage nineteen this area i dunno. I knew that maybe i read says crazy and you have two children. Re three children six or you have of touring around like for me. I'm a single guy. I've had this house for many years so i could sort of have a little bit of limited effing around. Oh that's good i don't have. I heard that i have that because we you know we have structured our life now that we can get through no matter. What do you have a business manager. I do depend deepak like a like a monthly thing. No no i mean i do have somebody that helps me monthly sort of stay on track with taxes but not like they don't pay my bills. Pay my bills. You pay your bills yeah but there is this thing i mean people may not know is that there's a thing in hollywood that people will pay a percentage percentage of your check. Do have somebody basically write your checks for you so don't have to worry about money and you always hear about the billy joel's of the world than on the <hes> the rappers m._c. hammer who go bankrupt yeah and i used to. I used to do it because you're told by your business and i also like i made money in really ah i was a kid like this bastard here twenty twenty six or twenty seven years old and you're making money is not making money. That's the different now to let people. Would it'd be like making money off. His editing of our show really good. I'm broke all actually wait a minute. I'm paying you so one hundred bucks. You get a credit in junior college yeah well. He gets paid per pop per podcast. Yes he edits the podcast. He's been with us since the beginning right yeah and he's been he's fantastic. I know he went off on a tangent side of tyler. We're back so you know he. You know. I'm not gonna tell you how much he makes. I think it's a fair thing. I think he's worth a lot more. If i if this was a blow up kind of podcast just blown shit up so it's it's good vapors like it'd be the if it gets going up. I mean like our buddy dax. He comes over one day he does. He does my podcast and gets the idea. I wanna do a podcast because i liked yours and then all of a sudden he then goes. Hey can i borrow rob. My my producer rob who's usually sitting where tyler is assured. One of my best friends have anything you want to take my house and then the next thing you know he's gotten hundreds. I mean he's huge. That podcast is huge. I think podcast of the years i'm shit. That's good so so. I wonder what i'm doing wrong and then i think wait a minute. They know a lot of celebrities. There on fucking allen isn't chris to enter the most symbol people in the eye it. It sickens me. They're so they're so good. They're human. They're dear humza. Look on instagram and it's like she's doing something for teachers. She's doing something to the answer. She's and i'm sitting there going. Hey i'm on cameo. What the fuck is wrong with me. Well damn not rich. No it's not ridge. Do that cameo thing. Have you done it now. Here's the thing i heard some people were like oh. You don't get a bad rap but it's a contract you know. Some people love it and my buddy sean astin. Who's a great guy and there's this. I'm like why he's like because people who will never meet you might wanna meet so you have the opportunity to meet you and you can't talk to tons of people thousands and thousands of people and say happy birthday or have a great wedding but with this you can so people can go on there and go well matt lillard. I'm a huge fan of always been a fan of yours and i never can meet you because i live in fucking turtlenecks a scotch and one share and i just wanted you know i wanna i look if somebody writes me a sends me a letter with a picture i sign it and send it make them pay for it right. I'd do it. You send me a picture. I'm gonna i'm gonna. I'm gonna audio conventions. I conventions and here's what i think about conventions because it i you know there's part of me and then i thought you're an idiot. Where do you go for vacation that <hes> <hes>. What do you like to go. We don't really go. We're going to look at that hair way. We'll go to europe once we try to go to europe. Okay the kid's fair enough you go to europe europe these folks. They love sci-fi world. They'd love harry potter. They leave smallville. They love scream. They love whatever and it's their vacation so so they're there to spend money and get an autograph now. Would it be worth my time if i just was like hey i'm gonna go there once a month to a different place and just sign autographs for the hell all of it and pay for my own flight and pay couldn't do that right who would do that so this is some thing and i always like important like when you know you get a lot of attention to someone but at the end of those days days i'm exhausted because you're just like hey man what's going hug me and pictures whatever experience like van as great as you can make it look i i have. I always when i started because i do now and you know when i started doing it. I was like this is really transactional. I feel stoop. I feel like i'm steve yeah. I mean if you ran into me on the streets in an amman wherever you are awesome anything anything me and i was like why am i going to ask for for money in this. It's weird. It's feels weird thing and then i got there. I realized there's a way to transact with somebody that you can affect change in somebody's his life and less than two minutes. It's unbelievable yeah. You can find that kid that fell in love with s._o._c. Pangkor you know is a scream van. Who's school yeah. Of course you've got the you've got a gay kid in the mid west or you've got this kid is cutting himself are drug <unk>. There are people out there that you giving them a hug dealing in talking to in seeing them and ask them how they are. Can that transaction that human transaction can change somebody's life in a very very quick sort of in a moment and i got you know it's also a way that if you're not working that there is a way to make you know to be able to feed your kid. It's a as our business changes like look as we used to make a lot more money than what we make. Now people are industries now run by people who are trying to make the most money possible than try to squeeze everything out and part of that is in our side. I mean in the acting side. They're gonna go pay number one and number two number three on the call sheet. I'm i'm not usually that guy and so they are going to get you for as little as they possibly can and the ability to sort of feed your kids keep your kids in school. Get get them to college. All a lot of that has happened. You know in a couple of ways. My wife went back to work. We changed the way we live our life we change sort of the dynamic of our house and yeah and and and these moments these cons are a big part of getting through. It's been awesome. You said something just now and it made me think about an interview who i washed with. You know my god. Do you research everyone. No they said i'm very quick. Here's the deal. I just go off the cuff jer. I don't i don't care about that. So what i like is talking talking about talking to real people. You know you know their insecurities their anxieties or what makes them tick what makes them successful. What makes them. It's more of like it's kind of therapy for me to be a better person in the audience so that's that's kinda like so did the research is kind of like it doesn't really matter but i did watch one interview and in an interview i think it said it's something like if you said this tommy wrong that if you're number one and a call sheet the movies probably bad yeah. He said that i probably why. Would you say that well. Here's why i say your answer. I look at you and i'm like if matthew number one on the call sheet. I'm doing the movie. I think he's terrific actor. He's got charisma out the ass more than most people. He's he's a great guy is talented is hell. I want to work with them. It looks like fun your number one as an actor. I'm going great. Who let's let's deal. Let's read the script now. Here's the reason is that first of all. I'm making a vow made a vow this year to stop self-deprecation at your at the same level that i do it but the reality is that somebody investing money in making a movie. You have to spend a lot of money. I mean you can do you can do do it for nothing but most movies. You need three million bucks. Somebody's gonna invest three million. Dollars is usually going to make an investment in somebody. That's going to potentially get them more than their money back and in general that's not hasn't been me look. I was in a movie called punk number on the call sheet. I was super proud out of that work. I love jimmy tyler love. I love that movie. It was so good little movie and the guinness scooby doo the highest ranking human on that movie. It did pretty well wait. The highest ranking what human like scooby doo is number one. Oh yeah number two or number one too but so that was a payday human human. Would i like to say a lot but those those moments are hard. I mean like you know. Those moments are hard to get and the longer i've been around. I used to who is a kid look. I used to chase it so bad. I used to want to be that star. I wanted to be the guy look. If you're playing basketball you playing hockey. You wanna be the guy in the last. You wanna have a shot to win the game. You wanted to matter. I don't want to be number ten on the call sheet. If you like me and you believe in me as an actor and you're like people like working with me then then. Why don't you ever get that show. Why don't you get that shot. Quitted god table table. I like nobody's looking go. Oh yes what that shot so so reality is that i've been number one on that call sheet and a lot of times the script when it gets down onto me isn't a great script does not agree director. It's not a lot of money and it's it's not bad like the best grip is going to the guys that are going to make you the most money back yeah yeah and the reality is that the script comes to me number. One on the call sheet in general hasn't been a great script hasn't been great. You know i can get every bad movie you offer out there for a horror film. It doesn't make us. It doesn't make it a great hormone. Do you are two things first of all stupid question but do you give it all. You got no matter what movie it is to look at my whole career. I am chewing up every scene. I'm doing everything i can to be incredible incredible. I have this idea of look. I have always gone by and subscribe to the ideas you have to try to be. Brilliant used to try to be fucking the most amazing actor in the world. You're gonna fall short make mistakes but you are reaching for brilliance and you can't reach for brilliant by hitting the mark and saying the line so i have always he's brought specially to my movie career especially his younger this idea of like fuck go for it. Do something incredible look. I think that i've i've reached moments in my life. I'm super a proud of and i've watched movies via. Look back and i'm like oh my god. What was i thinking but i mean there are moments in my life. I just did this thing in. Ah you know in new york i blind. I dyed my hair platinum blonde like why are you doing that like the guys on the run. He's gonna change. The way looks and they're like wow okay. Okay the monster of the week on the show and i'm like this one i want to do and then there's a scene in the movie in the show. You can't say what it is. I don't think i can't i. I mean i guess i can. I'm an f._b._i. So there's a pilot for f._b._i.'s most wanted. It's on c._b._s. And there's a scene in the show where he's like losing his mind. He's like you know he is the eib he's he's at his wit's end and he's you know he's not a good dude and like the director who i loved came up to me on the first day and he's like hey whatever happens happens stripper dramatic. I was like what what does that mean. Well yeah because i know what he means. He wanted to be an emotional scene he wants. There's no well. He was like he was like. The thing he wanted was to know that you could go like that. You should go there and the pressure of the moment. It's a big deal in big. It's a director gives you not like that because they want you give me what you want and my job is to provide you what you need right the idea like i don't want to talk about it because danny then makes it bigger than he the in the not too big a big deal he actually made it a much bigger deal but in this moment look. There's a three page scene where you're like. Okay i get with the given my a creative emotional instincts. Tell me this kid's at the end of the line for he's losing his mind so on that day like your job is lose your mind. I mean you lost oeste inside of us brought to you by sleep number. I like to say it like this. Because it's the the only time i sleep when ally on a sleep number bed. This is true. If you know me and you listen to the podcast i've been through beds beds and more beds. Nobody's he's been through more beds than main. I'll tell you what i promise you that sleep. Number is the winner. Why one here's the thing you get a regular bed yet to a stand that bed for the rest of your life unless you a new bed on a sleep number it's it's pretty logical folks. You just put the number. Oh i wanna be solved tonight. I wanna be hard tomorrow. Night sounds a little provocative rocketed but i'm telling you it's great in fact ice. 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You were so there was a moment for the spit coming out of your mouth. There's such intensity that you're like such a moment. Is he. Improvising this whole thing is felt real yeah but that's that's a chance you taken if you hit genius on a couple of those yeah and then you don't on the others isn't that okay. I look back at my career me like yeah. If you look at scream now now it's hilarious. I mean it's just eat chewing of scenery and just like beyond like it's gone beyond sort of normal acting which in the moment felt right the movie it sort of worked in the movie. I mean you know obviously order. Thank you stole the movie about that tyler's. You ever see scream yeah. Absolutely i mean i was talking about earlier. That's one of the most like replicated for like years and years after that was like two killers like that yeah it was icon definitely look that movie came out of nowhere in that you know west end done a great movie in a long time we had a nobody ever really to actresses that were on t._v. I mean courtney cox and campbell both on tv at the time. That crossover was not happening happening at that point you either movie actor t._v. Henry winkler henry wink. I am the funds it kind of came out of nowhere and was released on christmas day and you're like what is this thing and i'll never forget the opening weekend. We didn't do great numbers and this before the internet so you sort of had a call in and your agent would tell you the numbers you add for the opening weekend and it wasn't great but we've got hackers. Don't worry about it. We'll west cry. Craven called aww congratulations. You're in a big head and i was like well. You didn't have great numbers and <hes> he said the exit polls were like nothing had ever seen before so they knew even in that opening weekend that the exit polls were like off the charts and sort of you know next thing you know seven eight weeks later. You had one hundred million dollar party and it's like well. This is is crazy this movie kind of came out of nowhere getting a lot of offers at that time oh do. I've never offers even then they gave everything scream. Change your life it. Didn't let's get this. Guy's always ski went on to do like three big movies. After that never did great i mean courtney obviously was going back to make a million dollars. An episode and everyone else in the movie went on to make the sequel dad's like oh. That's really in a way i mean like even when i did smallville and was a huge success but tom was getting offers to do movies i wasn't i wasn't really getting my offers. I was like the bald guy and i was like i thought they liked me. I thought i'm doing a good job here. Am i not getting offers well. You're not six foot five and fucking gorgeous. That's why i love fad. Shred sinema badge thing but doesn't that drive you. I mean that for a long time in my life and my career that drove me crazy drove me crazy. The freddie who i love was off making movie after movie after movie after movie and pain gazillions of dollars and i was fighting for scraps and i'm mike dude. Why what do i do like. Where do i get the win and i always for me as a kid. I was like chasing that desperately to be that number one to be that movie star and it wasn't until doing now for thirty years of twenty nine years or something twenty eight years and i just think that it becomes way more about journey way more about tribe way more about fellowship being surrounded by people that you love and doing the things you like yeah then chasing a call sheet number yeah not only that because i felt the same way i mean i'm i'm still working on. I mean we're always working on ourselves but for so long i was like i wanna be this guy. I want to be the star i wanna be. I wanna be you got. People are like what are you doing now. You want to be like oh. I'm doing this and i'm doing this. You know and then all of a sudden you uh. I'm so exhausted. It's always trying to be perfect and gray and being something that you know. I i want you wanna get acceptance. You wanna get there's all there's a lot of psychology to it right but the comes a time when you just gotta go see it killed me. I think like ultimately was killing me like just exhausting where the point where i was just like so tired all the time because i was just always on always trying to be and i've worked myself religiously but i don't know i think it's i think it's tough because especially you seem like a perfectionist. At least you were no. We're not hard on yourself now. In fact i love what am i i. I don't you're not hard on yourself not at all. You don't get like in your head. You don't get nervous. You don't getting zaidi you don't get no. I get anxiety sure and i do get nervous but i i. I don't know what you how you came up but i was a kid. That had nothing in high school. I wasn't great at sports played sports but i wasn't great at him. I'm and i remember we talked about struggled in school and then when i found acting if on the one thing that i loved so for me. I've always loved what i do like i. I if i wasn't acting in a movie i'd be doing mandola mancha in coin doing something in arts scher in teach me at some point at some point in my life. I was like i wasn't working and i was in this big. Howson had made a lot of money. I was transitioning from being a young actor to a man it was. It was not a good long stretch there where i was like oh i could. I could be the guy that never comes back judd nelson i could be you know all these kids is that we grew up with and never transitioned to being a man and his harake ryan and i mean where's jake i mean that kid was on fire and he's carpenter our buddy yeah but yeah but he was like so so often ryan but the idea being that guy knocking marketing chance to come back and not doing what you wanna do would have been really hard so i was like what do i do. I go and change jobs and become a carpenter and leave or do i double down and and stay in chasing dream and so i would like we sold our house. We sold our cars. We sort of changed the way we live our life. My wife went back to work and i started teaching acting because i was worst case scenario. Just teach the rest of my life. Where did you teach <hes>. I teach vancouver film school so i go up there a couple times a year <hes> in l._a. Teach a go back to new york to teach me. I was like oh. This is what i'll do instead of like becoming a carpenter. I'm just going to keep doing what i love and that sort of restructuring of what's important. It's not about j. Seeing you know the number one. It's not about that manic thing. It's about sort of the journey. You know that that sort of changed the way i walk through this career. That's amazing because you know similarly set up fast similarly similar. I i do not have a mushy math similarly tyler similarly faster pulses which mine i answer early beautiful hair similarly. I found acting like you and i was like oh. My god i not being me is great. That was the difference that wasn't that. I i did love but i was so scared of it and i. I never lost that fear. It still scares me. I get when i get. I get something every day's like the same day. It's a groundhog's day. Where like i'm so hard because i want to be great. I wanna be perfect. It's different yeah but that is. That's what kills you i mean i that's what kills yeah yeah. That's okay so there is perfection. There is just the moment you're in. There is no way there is nothing you can't do that. How do you stop it. How do you just wake up in the morning and not have anxiety besides zoloft it look it's practice. It's fellowship. It's training. It's understanding that no matter what you do in that room it doesn't define who you are that you're collecting hours to get to the end of your life. I mean literally the minute you let go of perfection being being accepted needing that acceptance the mini. Let go of all that stuff. You're in the room and that's what people want. It's like i always say to the student the kids i teach speech i'm like look if a guy's at a bar and he comes up to you are a man or woman and you can send their desperation for you to want them you can censor so desperation of like connecting or hooking up like that is repulsive and it's not it's it's visceral. It's animalistic. You can feel somebody who's desperate spread that need to be seen. It's the person that is in their own skin. That is alive and you like. That's the person that's the charisma charisma. That's the thing i want and it's the same thing with acting the more you let go the more you're like. Hey i'm here for this moment. Let's just do this thing into be in a moment that's true i always notice when i'm like. I have nerves and then i go in and i do something. There's something in my brain. That goes all right. Being nervous is not working for you know yeah. It's you got to somehow can change it a lot of times. It was boom. I hit like even if i start out where the fuck this in my head and then i get right into it right and sometimes that helps but but it's hard it's hard especially when you look when you're not working. You have kids to feed and you want to. John need a job. It's not <hes> you know there. There's this thing going around right now called the dignity of work right and i think that the sense that working helps define you as a person and it gives is your purpose in life and the fact that as actors the reason they are so self destructive the reason that they end up lost on this journeys journeys because you're supposed to be i mean there's a thing yesterday said coming out that somebody in <hes> reality. T._v. is now taking their own life again. There's this movement to take care people that have been on reality t._v. Because there's this pension for for taking their lives because you're now you're somebody now. That's all removed and now you're walking to live and you don't know who who you are and you don't have a job and you don't have a purpose that is the stuff that kills actors and artists and reality contestants. I mean this idea. Oh that there's dignity and work is an important thing for an artist and the more you find other avenues to work the more you feel. You have a purpose. We're going deep. Is it always this deep. Here is the only i mean that's how i want it. I like this. I'm learning the learning for you are a a teacher i am. I love teaching. I love you're really good because i'm like i forget that i'm even interviewing you right. I really am thinking oh my god. All these things i wanna do now like how alma approach things and i've just been taking a day at a time and i'm trying to find like i'm forty. Six years old and i'm still working on purpose. This show gave me a little purpose goes. I it's bizarre because my friends. Are you know you're an actor. You're like yeah but i i don't know something about this that i find out more about me. I find out more like it's a moment where with everybody on their phones and i'm sitting here with you and i'm having a conversation and i'm not thinking of anything else other than twenty minutes late. I don't care and and it's just like you know. I don't know it's interaction that i really like that. I noticed that people really love it like the guy walking past the car. When you're pulling he goes dude. I'm listening in your jon cryer interview right now. Oh my god it's that means a lot and it's cooler like you know. People are affected by that. So whatever look i go back to. I i hear you're saying. I think that that goes back to purpose that goes back to what am i doing right. I'm a successful actor been on these successful shows but what am i doing with my that's right. That's right. You know the thing that people don't understand you know once in class. I took out my my book for the took out my i was like hey i wanna go over my last year's calendar and i'm doing this right now. In front of the whole class i got a whiteboard and i'm like i'm just gonna i. I've gone through and i'm i'm searching for all my appointments and i'm going to put together my most incredible year i've ever had the descendants so i was on like press tours and i was with george clooney and you know we had done opening movies and like on an academy award to where you are going to events and you're doing this whole thing i done to hugh independent movies and play in los angeles. This was my year like i had an incredible year and i was like i was in class so is like of of kicking ass at heart so i'm like i'm going to go through and i'm gonna count up my hours. I'm gonna just we're going to round things off. My here's my auditions. Here's my pilot elliot season. I'm going to go through and we're going to go. All of it's going to be counted and we'll round up so i started going through and i started collecting these hours and if i broken out and it turned doc look at our thing i was like what is my audition. This what happened like. I kind of walk my kids through like what my my audition was like like remembered it or what it was like to. They do all these things and at the end of it. If i calculated an eight hour day five days a week i worked like four and a half months over the course of the year and i literally said i will never in my life. Have a year like this is an actor ever ever again. It won't happen because the amount of work was overwhelming overwhelming like this is as good as it gets and if i could lay out right now that this is the best year of my life. It's probably a great year for you but in four and a half months that's not what kills an actor. This isn't what leads you astray. This is the best part of the year is the rest of the year that ends up up destroying your humanity because you what are you doing. What are you doing the entire month of november or december yes okay. I know i should go to the gym. Yes it's like a learning another language but that's what you get lost and that's what ends up getting really hard and i think that's just about actors you talking about you. Know people who have real real jobs you have to say acting in a real job is for sure. I mean not making play. We're making pretend but like for my friends in indiana or friends in new york that have like like wake up and nine to five jobs if you're just working and you're not doing anything for yourself or you're not doing anything that gives you more purpose for you could still fall into that category gory because i think it's it's humanity in general yes you have to you have to have something like if you're on that grind and looked my whole family's in michigan and they're on the grind i mean they. They are detroit blue-collar trying to make ends meet and you know it's that thing you have to have something your life that gives you fellowship. You have to be surrounded by people that you love and that's family and that you know a lot of people it's church for me. It was always the theater. I do play readings in my living room every two two weeks to get people together to talk about journey desirable where people to talk about so it's like a._a. For actors with yeah i mean we'll get cheap and cheap food and you sit around and cold. Read a play and you're like. I'm not a dad. I'm not a husband in this moment. I'm an actor surrounded by people that i liked liked to be around and what kind of people come to your house. It's everyone i mean. I've invited random. A waitress at a restaurant came. Yeah gio come over when you look like you know ebbs and flows of i'm working it. Does it's not happening but if it's if i'm not working and i need that thing to sort of connect to the next get the juice. Who's the biggest actor over there. I don't really have a lot of big actress. You have no big actor friends. I don't have it's funny because i in the back of my mind. Do i really want to do a podcast and steal my editor and my exist. There are work one day a week right now. He's gonna be my editor for the other podcast. We're doing don't mention doing. I'm doing another one yeah in a body. Media can't tell the buddy's name because we're going to do an announcement but you guys are listening but we're going to be doing another one coming soon. <hes> we're in. It's in the works but go ahead. <hes> ah part of it that i can't do is the part that you you hunting me down as you did a great job of like to to do it but i was like i'm flaky and i don't you know the idea of sitting here and talking about myself hours like oh my god. That's exactly what we're not doing. We're sort of talking about life and yeah things so. It's a little different but it is different but you're still like the idea that i'm now thinking about. <hes> told everyone in america. The hardest part of my life is not working for six months and a half months is like you're such an asshole. You know what i mean. That's the for why not it's filling your time and doing something purposeful. That's aww come across that way to me because it does. I mean i like talking about life talking about these things but the hardest part for me is like can you get people to sit across from you is an interesting for other people to do and at the end of the day like who am i gonna get. I like ten friends in this. I'm friendly with everyone. I mean that's the weird the thing i think about my life and maybe you have a different experience. I moved to pasadena. I had kids and a wife like i am not part of the hollywood. Since i'm not in this world my rolodex ax has like you know ten people on it that i love. I love everyone i've ever worked with as three hundred eighty. One was three people in my life. I would talk shit about but i would never do it personally. I've never do hop up with early. I know there's three people that if you are working with that person and i know about i'll be like hey just f._y._i. That person's jerk does it rhyme with famil- now now never ever is the nicest of cam but the studio the idea of trying to the whole site no oh no. I'm not gonna ask you get your personal but no but the idea like trying to get people in they sit down hard off. Let me say this. The core people that i usually hang out with are not celebrities for the most part. I don't hang out with celebrities. Dax has a family. He's very busy so we try to see judge. We text here and there a love him so i have friendships that were like text. How are you what's going on. Let's get lunch or something sometimes but the core of my friends are i have like a little. It'll band my friend tom of thirty five years. My friend can twenty years. It's the same people in them. I grew up with tom in newburgh indiana china. He lived down the street. He was popular i wasn't he wanted to be my roommate in college you've ever had him on the show. No he really nervous. Maybe shed and see if it comes at turns out right. It'd be kind of fun friend rob who works for marketing for homeless <hes> for homeless people and <hes> you know he's my lead guitarist. I hang out with just a bunch of guys who have real jobs in turkey and by the way i feel more grounded when i'm around them and they keep me grounded. I think you start hanging out with just celebrities and you're all around that just like there's not a lot of what's the word. A depth was even in my lexicon famous friends but let's whose most famous front my most famous friend in most famous brand well. How do you define friend. Somebody that you can call you can text and go hey. Do you want to grab lunch and they're like hey. Let's do it like hang out. I i don't have that. I mean i get seth green a dachshund me say hey let's get together. Those guys are phenomenal right but then like you know i mean i've done the reason clooney if not no you have his number of his near clooney's number thing you never thought of like sahim advertising yeah well for sure so you ever email so ever do that no dog and while i haven't seen you to send its oh my god. No i would never do that. He would he would now. I would not not like because he's like. He's in he's someplace. He's famous and glorious in these by. Here's some a real down to earth guy named matt lillard who lives in pasadena and he's like look dude fuck yeah. I'm tired of hanging out. Tarintino can rich pompous ass people and i want to hang out with lillard ticket. I'll play dungeons and dragons dungeons and dragons. I wanna go to the olive garden garden. Chill out with lillard right. Let's lock down all of all of the garden. It's the same reason i mean i never would never it's just not my life because i do think it goes back to who are you. My life is like i'm the fat kid that idea. Do you like social anxiety my kids both of my kids go through some social anxiety stuff and for a long time i'm like what are you talking about your super personable your i your charming arming shed like and then i was like oh wait. I have swings eighty me and hollywood. Party is like get me out of here me like country party. I'm like oh my god. My skin is is crawling. You put me with a bunch of artists. Put me with a bunch of actors like i couldn't be happier but when you put me outside of my element i just i i can't do it. Freaks me out. I understand that because i had the same i always feel like i don't belong always feel. I hung do you think i i know i make it clear. I'm uncomfortable. I say i like i like look. I feel like i have to be funny. I have to be on or they're not gonna to accept and i'm boring and i don't let that's why i had so many arguments with like a representation my manager my agent who were like to go go to this go to the golden globes. I'm like no. I have a movie or tv show. Why would i do go to this party. It's going to be important and no it's not i can't do that. I don't have so. I thought them forever. Somebody who i do podcast i do you know social media for the podcast amick funny videos and stupid shit but like i don't i don't do do the hollywood thing really like you said you walked in. You like oh my god. Why do you have in napoleon's item opposed or why do you have a jerk poster autograph the mike because as a kid that's all i did. I had movies. That's all i had was. I watched movies. That is my life and so now. I'm still that kid in high school when i see wes craven or when he sees you know not anymore anymore. I like that. I'm like oh my god. That's so exciting. I want to get your autograph. I mean i don't say it right then. I'm very very cool about it like stallone. I worked with him two weeks. We're at the last. Go sly cool at that point. You call me pippi longstocking because i had at least that's what my face on the c._g._i. So he said i hear pippi. What are you doing doing. I'm like hey we saw my ramble lunch box. You get a rambling bucks got you. How old are you forty six years old you gotta reimbursable lunch and he signed it and had a thermos in and he couldn't believe it but then you have it before or did you know you got it. You've found ebay. I swear i had the ramble lunchbox and i'm like oh my god. I'm going to have the ramble lunch but was that on guardians guardians james gunn may be the most famous friend now do you ever i think we can talk about this because james wallis and he's one of my best friends as well. Do you think you ever like killed it for him and scooby doo. What does he put me in guardians. I know i killed it for him. In school i mean the guy tried edition for guardian. I guess for the for prats you know he was brilliant. Uh i'm just saying i went to. I did tasers face. Oh and i was like chris. Elvin was and i i was like and i saw him the night that same night. He had a party that the same day audition and he came up to. He's like oh my god. You're good. Thank god so as good so i was in the running but i didn't get all right so yeah. He loves you and i love him. I love him and often enough but i want but look. There's no doubt like semi twitter recently. What is the what role do you want and i was like whatever movie james guns doing realizes yeah because i i because i i love him. I don't know i do too. Some people go dude. He's doing guardians. Why don't you ask you don't ask he's my one of my best friends if he wants to put me in something. He'll turn give me. He knows he knows his job. Snail internally grateful for it but that's but that's the thing is you go back to and you're in it. I was in the idea of going back to like. It's heart heart. I mean you want to be number one on the call sheet you want that job and it's like even your good friend. You're not working for. I mean that's the thing that's crazy to me. I mean i i look at the producers. This could be due at mike. You guys have made like richard sokoll and chuck grove and you guys have made a lot of really big movies. There's not a part you know. There's there's no way that i can i can i come in and audition like can i at least fight for the job. Dude i listen the reality. Is i look. We've all worked. I remember i did urban legend right after screaming people. Call it a scream rip off but you know i enjoyed it. I loved it. I thought it was fun. Movie and all those huge producers neil merritt sir. He came up to me one day and goes. You're the next tom hanks of course. I knew i was not the next tom hanks. Nobody could be the next. Tom hanks but i loved it. I was young league room like fuck yeah never heard from this guy but he does all these big giant movies that make billions of dollars. He couldn't have said hey rosenbaum becoming and give ten lines signs in one scene and crush it now one call i could tell you this is about the one guy that does it. James gunn put me in the movie and my buddy dax shepard bird dax shepard every movie. He's made he's on rosie. I got a real for you. Rosie got this for it's like when you think of working with your friends is the best time. How many times do i hear yeah. You're good friends with jason reitman r. m. mike i am. I love jason. Why hasn't he put you anything. I'm like maybe i'm not right for the five hundred roles. Maybe i'm not good now. He auditioned for something in up in the air and i was not good. I was not good in the audition seriously. I don't know i just kind of winged it. I don't i sometimes uh-huh self destructive it is i don't wanna put here's the thing i don't wanna put so much. <hes> although i'm doing it right now he sends you put so much work into something then you don't get it. It's like fuck. I just felt like i just worked for two weeks for something that i didn't even get you know that is you know but but i go. I know sounds like yeah. I know now. The idea is that it's two weeks. At least you're working on something two weeks a purpose network arc. That's that you're collecting all the collect hours if you believe in ten thousand hours you like oh dude. I'm just collecting hours lillard yeah. The light just went off. I now understand exactly what you're fucking talking about. You're saying that that two weeks of me busting my ass is fulfilling and it's like i just about result to give me a hot do here this tyler. This is really good advice this. This is like tyler when you leave here and you're edit that shitty podcast. What do you do with the rest of the day. Go the coffee bean. Why don't you fucking party so i mean life bastard. I think i think it's a universal thing for like millennials right now to put so much stake stake in work and to put so much worse than how much you work. You know there was a time where i was working like one or two days a week and i was like how do i get that to five. How do i what why i mean i super hard and i do think that there's a lot of people out there who are doing work with the express purpose of a result that is going to further them right. My argument is that if you're living the life of a craftsman that it's actually just doing the work is the point that is not the shoe you turn out that's important. It's the lifetime shoes instead of your out to have a better work ethic. I think i don't know i don't i don't know about. I don't know you're you're here doing in this. I mean this is a workout that guy. I really worked hard. I'm going on this edition first time in a while that i it was something i really liked and i've put some time into it. Let's have put some time. I'm into it because i think it's really good and i think that's another thing if you're like excited about something because you think it has potential and it's good but like for me sometimes when i'm like i get sort of what's the word i don't know. I don't know if it's bored or <hes> just lack of interest epithet apathetic but i'm like oh. It's another one of these. They want me to play this guy the same guy that i have have done before or they want me to do this or not interested. There's this one with a huge director huge writer oscar award winner that they wanted me to read for and i didn't say no. I think the guy is brilliant. I think the whole thing's brilliant. It's just not what i want to. I don't want to just say oh. I'm working with an academy hatemi award winner or i'm working with. That's i mean i do too but i don't want to do something because it's everyone's perception of me of if i do it. They'll go oh he's working with. I just didn't particularly like with what it was. I just didn't like it yeah. The question isn't what you what do you like. I like you. I like tyler tyler. I like i mean that's the thing is like so. I'm saying is that finding something that turns you on and chance what it is deals like you have to find line returns. You want and just chase. It and it's going to end up where it's gonna end up but it's the it's the hunt that is super rewarding life. This is rewarding to me i after after an hour ago wow i really liked got him so full of life so many great stories to tell. I haven't told any stories have i haven't really aren't you glad we really didn't talk talk about like all the stuff that people always ask you about yeah. We really didn't did we are we done. I'm not done. I'm just saying like for instance okay. You have the three children so many. Are you emotional. Are you do you do you show your emotions like my dad. Never cried dead. Never told me love me. My dad poor me. I'm not saying and then i'm just saying my dad was one of those tough guys mowed the lawn with without a grass catcher rocks and dog shit are flying in his face. He didn't care and have you. Have you told that story. That's how you describe your dad often now. That was the first time i every said that. That is an amazing. I wrote a pile that i sold the fox years ago. Oh and that was the description of my father was the last time so are you so you have you taken that stoic nature in your life. I mean yeah. I think think i'm i'm gonna blow smoke up my ass. 'cause i have a lot of fucking insecurities and weaknesses but i definitely am. I giving loving there for you when you need me person as i am also very steal the spotlight kind of fucking center of attention and can be annoying as shit can be all those things but i know now that i'm actually have a really big heart always available so you only child no. I'm kind of in the middle. My mom had two kids and divorce married my dad when he was eighteen had me so the middle then my brother then my dad. They got divorced and he had two more kids but it's kind of all over the place but they don't talk but anyway. Are you emotionally the kids. Do you see anything that you cry. Why in your kids see you cry ever. Is that why you're not in a long term partnership. Why do you think because you're i mean the the the modeling modelling of partnership that your dad had and sort of its result on you. I mean you're a caring person and you have the sense of depth aw gat. You're saying yeah yeah odd to me that you're not in a partnership. I mean not that. I'm judging it. I'm just curious at some point at forty six. He's into forty-six. I'll be forty forty seven so the idea of why am i not in a partnership must be question your life somewhere right. I want to be an apartment. So what do do you see any similarities with any woman with my mother. <hes> run as far as i can. If i see anything where it resembles any kind of <hes> i i don't wanna be you know i'm i'm not judgmental. I just know what's not right for me. I'm a you know. I have a lot of energy kind of guy gets a little moody usually funny and always always a good time. It's fun but i'm very typical and i'm very open about everything. You know. I need someone who's not as the energy i am. I'm sure your wife is probably keeps. You diametrically opposed exactly and that's what i think i need so you know. I'm going on a date tonight. Actually let's get you know l. Her i met her on a dating site and so what i do is i have these things where when i go out i <hes> i have a lunch. If we're taking a chance at like meeting for the first time let's have lunch. Let's have a snack because you might not like me and you can go home in an hour because it's watch if i commit to dinner with you. This could be nightmare. Let's not set up a nightmare. We haven't met unless you wanna facetime for a few times do something to get to see other so that's sort of ammo i like. I think it's better than going on tons of dates. It's like hey. I don't even consider today. It's okay we're too friendly people seeing if we want to have a date later and when you sit down is there pressure to be on no no no. I'm on but you just said that. I'm on a lot that has to be. I'm naturally on i'm now. I'm not trying. I like i'll pretty much say everything. I'm not trying to impress them as much as i am trying to dissuade them. No that's not true. Show you all the bad stuff unless shit with the door open. Sometimes i don't want to miss anything. I am broken. I'm unbroken a lot of places but i need you know but there's one girl she was. You know look again this woman. This girl condescending. I put a forty five forty six yeah. Maybe i don't know who's best. Maybe i don't want to be a lump. I don't want to get married because i don't wanna be alone. No i wanna fall in love. I've been in relationships but i just i don't like quick. Look i have two great dog. She met them wrestle with them on the floor. I love them and i love them. I have a great assistant. It's like a marriage but we're not attracted to each other <hes>. We're just it's it's business and she's cool and you know it's nice to have so much comes over every day and i have friends ends. I have a good life. I have good decent family so what i mean unless it's just something that goes wow. I'm not gonna like just get married to get married guidelines advocate. I know you got lucky yeah super. Is that one you met in europe or is it now yeah. She is well. You didn't meet her. In europe. You brought her as a friend and <hes> no. I met her at a party heather heather and she said that they were going to italy for this wedding and whatever happened in italy spain in italy. I'm like oh. I'm going to get my ass italy so you guys slept together. We didn't you hooked up now. We make i was nice yeah. By the time i left italy. I was like i'm going to marry that woman. Did you ever think twenty years or nineteen years later that you dye your hair blond look at you. She wouldn't care she does not care even a little. Are you guys still really love yeah. There's no. I can't imagine my life without her. Were symbiotic yeah <hes> but it's not like it's very different than your first lunch meteorological yeah. You're you're battling your co inhabiting to raise kids ads you of your on a journey together so it's is that where we're at the point. I was at the point early on in my life. I'm like i'm never leaving i i it doesn't even cross my mind. You're like you're just on a journey together. We have like awesome. Oh you know you ebb and flow. I mean you have these moments where you're on fire when you go away for weekend. You're like oh my god. There's my wife and you have those moments where you miss early on my god. I miss my wife yeah because i'm i leave my kitten. You know you'll miss the i mean. I'm a i'm a i'm a data down. The guy that takes the kids to school. I pick them up. I go to soccer practice. I managed the soccer team for my kid ticket olive gordon. I never got olive. Garden is now my thank not a not a gardener. You're a good dad. You sound like a good dad dad. I think i'm gonna get dad. I'm trying my damndest to be a great debt the same thing with being an actor. I i wanna be a brilliant dad. You ought to be good at everything you do for things i care about. I want to strive to be incredible for the things that i hold value in. I wanna be amazing at but there's all kinds of things fall short on and i make all kinds of mistakes aches and i'm not brilliant nearly anything you wanna be eighty five years old and still acting a hundred percent. I wanna die artist. I see i. I really commend you for that. Because i look like even dax is like i just love acting. I don't care what it is. I go i do. I care kind of what it is. Yeah yeah i i mean i've done a lot the bad stuff you know <hes> he cares what it is. He's turned down things that are. I'm just saying that he's like. He just loves to work. I think he does what which was a great thing and i. I love to work but he makes. It sound like it's just so fun all the time to me fourteen sixteen hours a day doing the same fucking thing. Isn't that fun yeah. It's just not look. I do the thing that you look at the shape of his career. He never had to go to vancouver and work. Those sixteen hour days yeah smallville is a. I'm assuming because i do i do know that world. I've seen that world intimately that when you're on that fourteen sixteen seventeen our grind that it changes the way you look at it is as bad bad as any nine to five job twice a day. I mean you know you're there for long periods of time the and it's easy for me. I just went to hibernation after i was just kind of like you know. Just i'd ask not. I actually went off in my moving on. I just i felt like i never really recovered. You need that decompression that downtime or whatever after you do projects. Don't you feel like you work on something. You feel like you just need to or do you ready for the next one. I've never had that grind. Dax never had that grind grind. I've never been on that procedural procedural on my god i can't. I don't know how you do it so hard. It's so low there long days and they're not a lot of reward in the work so but being stars the that's the hardest thing to come in and you see yes for sure. It's a weird thing. You don't know anyone who's like your. Somebody's thanksgiving is like i don't gonna try to do the best i i can do like hanging here yeah but that's like i can jump into that world because i know i'm jumping out but like my jobs i've had on tv have been like on. I'm good girls now. I've worked three days a week whereas good girls girls n._b._c. n._b._a. Sir it's <hes> you love it. It's awesome. I have a great job. I have a great job with number four you like that as you know i think impor- we worked with christina hendricks. It's all the time she's a she's great as is so often so sweet and they are show. Runners are great and we're doing a show. That's like outside the box. It's awesome say good. Life is good. It is good. You sound like a genuinely have you don't get depression bouts of depression you but i but here's the thing my life is. Super active the idea of like the dignity of work like the i like. I'm not for a long time. I would wait for a long time. I would call my manager my agent. I'd be like haniya job benita job any job and i was defined by what i was doing. It just started dungeons and dragons company with my five. Yeah i like do this thing with kids. At five acres is where we create the slam poetry one night. There's a thing called hatch where people out there trying to save the world and that communities community. I'm involved in thi vancouver hoover. Teach all the time i mean literally will pull into a city. I'd be like i'm here. Can i teach at the time and you have a family and a y. You have to go back to. What are you doing during the day the ideas like you have time like i am really good afifa. I'm really good xbox. I love to play a little games but i go to those periods like i will go and i will take a team from the whole season play a whole season of the soccer in a week but then i'm like i gotta go back and i got no have to be active. I've got to do stuff outside of this job as out of this business. If you weren't busy go crazy. I it feel like i have more going on than most people because i like. I like doing things. I liked and i like going. We should go that way. We have a company called hive. Be good and we throw events where people come together to to to group think how to change the world. I mean it's you know that's kinda. Stuff like now you're sitting with like leaders in their community trying to fix homelessness or or affordable housing or how to get gang members back into the world and give them dignity. I mean these are things you like. Oh these these moments are bigger than than me so the idea of going on chasing job okay. I got that because i'm doing all these things this no longer as important as because. You've got all these other things going on jesus. I feel like such a loser. I mean you have a pod asking you said you're planning on starting another like you of doing this you of talking to him and talking that also i'm like you know. Maybe sometimes it's like you now now. I'm doing so much brumfield. I'm doing things like i'm doing this podcast for me. I'm doing all these not just for me but i'm glad i tracked you down low. I'm glad i i am because i was pretty persistent and i just you know it's i wanted to do it. I know you said listen. It's obvious how much shit you got going on but you know i met you gone without a paddle dax no before that i knew somehow before this new york friend we was seth green carbon south yeah. There's people in this career in this life. You're like i've known you forever. We've been friendly forever but i don't know how we ever became friends. At first. We never worked yeah yeah. You have so much like insight. I want you to be my therapist want. Is that his podcast every week together. It's a therapy session. It's a therapy session rosenbaum every week as we begin to treat. Thanks thanks. Thanks for coming over all right uh-huh <music>.