13 Episode results for "Richard Lap"

Richard Lapchick on why he was inspired to become an activist & the impact of athletes speaking out

The Darren Smith Show

23:22 min | 8 months ago

Richard Lapchick on why he was inspired to become an activist & the impact of athletes speaking out

"Program an awful lot well. He went on to coach. The next return to Saint John's and he had a son Dr. Richard Lap Chick, who is a professor at the University of Central, Florida? WHO's considered one of the leading experts on the relationship of race and sports? He's an author. More books than most of us have read, and he's kind enough to join us here this Wednesday. Afternoon. Extra Thirteen Sixty Dr Richard Lab check appreciate your time. This is Darren Smith in San Diego. Thank you very much. Darren happy to be with the Saint John's alum. Appreciate it as I, said I said well, I don't know too many lap chicks in the world, so I I was very very pleased to know that we were booking to come on the show, and that there was a little bit of a connection there Your your dad meant a lot to those of us, titles, and it titles lot of Wins I. Don't know that you do or don't have many memories from from the days at Saint John's, but really quite a big deal of for New York. City, basketball fans not only for my Alma Mater, but also for the New York Knicks. No some my most vivid memories or are those days. And and one that you probably don't know about is When I was literally five years old I looked outside. My bedroom window yakkers where I was raised. And, so my father's been been swinging from tree with people under the tree picketing and I had no idea what it was about. accepted a lot of people were angry with this man who was my best friend. And I would later find out. as I grew older that the coach of the New York Knicks, she signed the first African American player in the history of the NBA, not sweetwater Clifton. And there are a lot of people who were unhappy to that now league this AAC. Nearly eighty percent players of color wasn't ready. In some people's mind in nineteen fifty when my dad signed sweetwater. Let's amazing. I if you wouldn't mind doctor logic, could you give us? An I'm sure that that played a significant role in turning you into the person that you have been in your life dedicating your life to the conversations of race and sports. But how have how? How's Your Life Taken Forum? How how have you ended up in the position that you are in today? I do a lot of public speaking. I'm just about seventy five and I always start off by saying. You must be wondering why you have the seventy five year old white guy here talking about race. In America and not only that incident in my life as a five year old my dad was a triple inducted into the basketball hall of fame, and everybody told me I'd be an NBA player. And of course I love that dream in the eighth grade I was one of the tallest players in new. York City area I was recruited by. School called Power Memorial High School, which was the top basketball program in the country at that time. Didn't go there, but became friends with the coach name was Jack Donahue and he. Invited me to his summer camp in nineteen sixty one. which. I did was a startup camp. There were five other white guys and a black guy that they were. All his players have power. and. One of the white guys was dropping the N. Word on the Black Guy for the first three days until I finally challenged. He literally knocked me out cold. or The black guy was then called Duale Cinder and Kareem and I have been lifelong friends since then. To the extent when his statue was unveiled at the staple center has me to speak at it. He invited me to. Be a witness when he received the Presidential Medal of freedom from Brock Obama at the last month of his administration, and when I was scheduled to surgery. Here in Orlando. which is where I live. He flew to Florida to be with me, so the friendship has lasted a lifetime, but as a fifteen year old white yakkers in nineteen in nineteen, sixty one. Lou than now Korean provided me with a Young African American Lens with which to watch. What racism was doing his community? And it made me decide as a fifteen year old that I want to spend. The rest of my life working and civil rights in some fashion. I had no idea what it would take a or what it would look like then. I ended up going and getting a PhD and International Race Relations and my dissertation was on how South Africa you sport. As part of its foreign policy and the international response to. It got published as a book. This is in the mid nineteen seventies. Now I was asked to speak about it. I ended up for him in the sports boycott of South Africa because of apartheid in South Africa. And the first thing was coming to the United States in in early, nineteen, seventy eight, and my job is that of the coalition wants to get. The matches stopped so I went down. To Nashville way the matches were scheduled to be held. Built a lot of Enthusiastic crowds for one of the matches canceled the African governments that asked me to announce. That they would boycott the nineteen eighty four. Los Angeles Olympic Games. If this team was indeed allowed to come. I announced that to the crowd before I started my speech at the media there because we leaked to the press what it was about. Dick SCHAAP was covering for NBC nightly news. Time came up to me, and he said it looks like the financial backers of the Davis Cup of pulling out. And matches. We're going to be canceled. I announced that to the crowd was an anti-apartheid crowd. Day All went crazy and what I do. Virginia whereas teaching at the time. I thought maybe for the first time in my life I've done something worthwhile. The next night I was working late and my college office offices Schools Library which close to ten thirty. At ten, forty, five, hundred and knock on the door I assumed it was the campus security police. so I didn't hesitate to answer it because they routinely checked when they saw a light on after the building was closed. Instead those two men wearing stocking superseded to cause liver, damage, kidney, damage Hernia, concussion and carve the N. word in my stomach with a pair of office scissors. Lie in the hospital that night. Knew that. I was GONNA. Spend the rest of my life. Using the sports platform to try to address various social justice issues in particular racism. I realized that if people have gone to the length, they did to try to stop my father twenty eight years before going to try to stop me that night. That they must've thought. We were having an impact on racism in America using that sports platform, and that's what I've done for the rest of my life. Amazing Dr Richard Laptop joining us on thirteen sixty. You mentioned lew, Alcindor Kareem abdul-jabbar and I had read recently here. After the murder of George Floyd, he wrote an OP. Ed in the La Times and I'm sure Dr. Lap Jackie read that he's. He's obviously very influential person as it relates to the subject of race and Sports, and here he is all these years later writing what it is that he's writing, and I would recommend for everybody to go and to try to track down the op Ed that. He wrote just a couple of weeks back. How do you feel about where we are today? You know having seen so much and I'm sure a lot of progress, but with with so many so much more left ahead of us. How do you feel about where we are today? I know you wrote in the Orlando Sentinel. Your Gut tells you that this is a real pivot point we. We hope that you're right. But how do you feel about the conversation? And where we are today? Having had the opportunity and put yourself in a position to see so much. Well I think you know. I I had seen so much, and I can tell by you know. John's that you have yourself. Both in the civil rights movement and and things that have happened since then we've seen people. Demonstrated in the streets and people raise types of concerns about racism that that has never really been sustained. Beyond the news cycles of those periods of time and I think part of it is, we were saying. That were horrific, but nothing like what we saw. With the brutal murder in Minneapolis, police go to see that on video so many times during the last two weeks. Makes it impossible to to deny. What we're talking about in terms of how brutal racism can be. I think so that this these two generations of the millennials and generation Z.. Are Much more compassionate and passionate about social justice issues. They have the technology with social media as well as smartphones record. That history and I think that a pivotal point of why I'm optimistic is not only those things, but the voices of athletes. And people in the world of sports speaking out. It wasn't that long ago when athletes were. Intimidated about raising their voices, because their careers could, but now there are so many athletes doing it that there's a safety net for them and we track. the number of stories about athletes who who speak out and I just had just saw the total. There have been three hundred twenty four. Athletes, coaches or teams or leagues that have said something or done some action in the wake of this murder and I think we're GONNA. See that sustain you probably today that fourteen hundred. Athlete signed a letter. to Congress about making sure that there's no immunity from for either police or federal workers. commit some kind of act that could be defined as a hate crime so. I think those things. Make me feel that maybe this time it's going to be different. Only history is gonNA. Tell us that. How different you talk about the athletes who are speaking out and you know you. You Reference Lou Elsa Kareem abdul-jabbar as one and I. Think if there's one thing and you, you know you talked a little bit about tracking the athletes who are speaking out, it's not just the black athletes. How important is it for them to find their footing, and to not be fearful to have a voice, but how important is it? Dr Lab for the white athletes to jump into the conversation, and to not leave it up to the just the black athletes to do all the talking in this regard. Well, it can't get all done unless quite. Athletes are involved. In society as a whole, it can't get done if it's just. Members of black lives matter that they need. white allies to be working with them to try to bring about the change that that we all feel as necessary, so it's critically important and I think that's another big difference right now is they're significantly more. White demonstrators joining black demonstrators in the streets, and Significantly more athletes that are part of. The campaign to fight racism. And that's the difference right I mean. Is that as big a difference as has been pointed out in the here and now Have you noticed that as well that it's not just been up to the black athletes to to make statements to March? But have you noticed that that there is a genuine increase in that regard? No! They're definitely has and You know. I saw that. The people who signed the letter day were Tom Brady and drew brees. You've got. So much criticism last week for what he said about kneeling that I, think that. You know he reflected on it and retracted instantly and drew brees. Of course it had A. You know amazing record of supporting the people of new, Orleans during his tenure the same. Sense of this guy's really pretty genuine, so the forgiveness was easier with him than it might have been with somebody else, but breezes now one of those activists talking about. about racism in in his community around the country. It you know it's it seems to me that that people are asking questions about you know how to get conversations started, and this still might be even in in thousand twenty Dr logic. This might be a foreign concept for some people based on on their own upbringing. Where was that they lived? You've been doing this almost your entire life. In terms of getting conversation started I. Don't know where the says I don't know if it's on. White people or black people I would say it's a upon all of us to to have conversations right. What what would you say some? You know who are wondering how to do that, you know. Maybe they're well intentioned, but it just. It hasn't been part of their upbringing. You know we had a conversation earlier about when the first time was that any of US had a black teacher and for me. It wasn't until Saint John's. But, but in terms of getting conversation started. You've made a life out of this. What do you say to people? And what would you advise to people who who are sincere in wanting to get it going, but who maybe don't know how? Well. A very difficult thing to talk about race in America. for white people and Black people black people. you know were. Anxious about exposing the extensive of what they faced because you know, I'll tell you. Here is a difference that. In. Nineteen, seventy eight after I was attacked. A lot of people said to me now you understand what it's like to be black and my response was. I really don't because I could walk away from this caused at any moment, and then just rejoined the the white middle class, and I would never face any discrimination again. Whereas a black person every time they go out of their house faces the potential of something happening to them with racism, some active racism. and I think that. What we're hearing now is more. Black people are willing to talk about the daily affects the simple things that happen to them that could never happen to a white person and white people I think are listening more than they did in the past, and I think that's also a key element is. You white people who are sympathetic needs try to understand in depth what it means to have racist acts potentially in your in your face almost every day of your life by listening to black people by Reading what people have written or or what they're saying on the air now has the. has they take to the airwaves? You have also studied these sports leagues, and the teams themselves as a matter of fact, your part of a process every year that that hands out grades for how different leagues are handling both racial diversity and also gender diversity as well What would you say about where the different leagues are NFL MLB Major League soccer NBA and how equipped they are to to be vehicle for these kind of conversations. I'd say that the NBA is is way ahead. if we include the women's leagues, the WNBA is equally ahead. major league soccer's pretty good job on racial and gender hiring practices. Seen so much controversy at the end of last season with the NFL and only. For head coaches of color to general managers of color after all these years and you know people are talking about. You know. Modifying, the Rooney rule and some actions, we're taking about several weeks ago by the NFL owners. but I think that one of the things that we're gonNA have as a freshman and by the way college sport is by far the worst. Few, African American head coaches in College, football and college basketball that it's it's amazing and. Probably the worst mystically report every year and those report cards is that. This is now forty eight years after the passage of title nine, which gave Women's equality. Status in the world of sport as well. And sixty percent of women's teams across all three divisions or coach by men. And fifty percent of all the coaches assistant coaches on women teams are men. Forty eight years after the passage of title nine, but I go into a college campus, and I asked him director which i. Frequently have the opportunity to do. Would you consider hiring a woman as the head coach have one of your men's teams I get look like well I heard you were crazy. Lap Chick, but now I really know. Because such alien thought, but nonetheless we have sixty percent of our women's teams coach by men, and nobody thinks anything about. Why are colleges so traditionally me? My theory is you know that a lot of places in this country you know. The the college coach is sort of the face right in the pros. Patrick Mahomes is the face of the chiefs with all due respect to Andy Reid, but in college, because the players cycle through so much, it's the coach and I guess in some parts of the country is as you know as hard as it is to understand this, you know in certain parts of the country I guess we're. We're still not ready for that sort of thing, but but that's my theory. What's your theories as to? Why? College athletics seems to be so far behind? I think outspoken coaches would certainly help. You know back in the nineteen eighties John Thompson spoke out. The coach of Georgetown. He was the first black coach to really do that in college sports. They really never was one in college. Football which I think kept us. behind way behind in terms of hiring practices less than ten percent. Of College football coaches. It'd be one level. Still enter the level rather. The are still African or African American now ninety percent of whites. With fifty four percent of our football players being African American. You know those football. Players have to be asking themselves well. My school really consider a black coach here. They give them the opportunity and it doesn't have to be that. That actually happens, but they have to believe that it was an open. You know you can still take a white guy who might be the best choice, but at least get the best people in the room, so you know you've looked at every everybody. and Dr Logic last thing only because it's a, it's a bit of breaking news here over the last twenty minutes or so that Nascar has announced that it will, it will not display of the confederate flag is going to be prohibited. anecdotally, at least on social media, this doesn't seem to be going over very well with many NASCAR fans, but that's just social media You got a quick thought. Force I know we spend more time talking basketball, football and and. NASCAR is is certainly a a an acquired taste, many parts of the country. But what do you think about WHAT NASCAR's announced here within the last half hour? I live forty five minutes from NASCAR headquarters in central. Florida's how? It's it's local and I can tell you that my image of Nascar. I got involved down here was. You know very southern, very white, very conservative, and we have done more diversity training. FOR NASCAR than any other professional sport, I'm Dave Really taken a stand for almost two decades now that they wanNA. Make Nascar. Look like America so. I'm encouraged by the move that they may today I. Think you know those symbols are so? Traumatic, in the black community about. Bringing, up memories, maybe not so much, what might have happened to them and their lifetime, but to grand grandfathers and fathers and And members of their family in the past with that confederate symbol has stood for Nascar made a a good step and a long overdue step in doing that today. And lastly you mentioned and you wrote in the Orlando Sentinel that you're hopeful that you really feel like this is This is a turning point, not just in sports, but in our country you have access to too many people Kareem, abdul-jabbar amongst them just to name one. What is the sense that you get from conversations that you've had? You are hopeful are. Do you find that that others are equally as hopeful as you are based on everything? We've seen over the last two weeks. You Know Kareem. Has Been talking about. He has hope and history. He has hoped that things are gonNA. Change But history tells them that that's really going to be hard to happen. I think it depends on your perspective. You have to have a sense of what you think is happening today and I think green statements after that that was about ten days ago have been, but that he sees you know. Diverse. Group out there, protesting the streets, speaking up taking risks. That, they might have taken before because he feels as to why that. America is really awakening to the effective racism more than they ever have before. Dr Logic. We appreciate it again at a and I would encourage everybody to to. Find some some of what you have written. You've written a ton of bucks. You're constantly writing for the Business Journal for ESPN DOT COM guess writing for the Orlando Sentinel many other places as well Nelson Mandela is in your in your past. Jesse Jackson Kareem abdul-jabbar just to name a few. Really appreciate you taking the time to do this We've learned a lot. We appreciate your insight. Thank you for having me on the show. Thank you Dr Richard Lab Check again a professor who is with the University of central? Florida somebody who has not only talked to talk, but as we mentioned there walk the walk describing some of the things that he's experienced in his life as the son of Joe Lap check who. Maybe isn't the most famous basketball coach ever just somebody who I would known for my experiences, growing up in love and basketball around New York City, 'cause he was coach at my Alma. Mater and he was coach of the Knicks before I was even born, and how his life has been shaped by seeing some of the things because his dad signed a black player that they hung has died in. In effigy outside his window in a New York suburb, he wrote about he also wrote about getting phone calls back then when you had landlines at home and you could, you could find anyone's phone number like in the phone book. The white the white pages, the angry angry racist would call the home and sometimes I think he's five or six years old. He's answer the phone and you'd hear. You would hear the outrage and the anger and the threats, and these menacing phone calls coming in as a kid. Because your father dared to sign a black player. It's remarkable. I mean and it's an amazing life. I mean he was invited to South Africa for Nelson. Mandela's presidential inauguration after those decades being in prison, Nelson Mandela invited that. Guest that we just had Dr Richard Lap Jack Down to South Africa to be his guests at his inauguration, I mean. You know again. There's a lot there there. There's a lot there in this amazing life that he's had so i. know that the term expert gets tossed around right? People say Oh, you must be sports Xtra sports sexpert. These are people who this is an expert. You know this is the epitome. This is the definition of what an expert is. Somebody who's been there. Who's written about it? Who Studies at who writes about it? Who Teaches at a movie? Yeah, it really should movie this. Being attacked in his office. A bunch of internal injuries somebody took a pair of scissors and carved the N. word, and it was stomach just because he dared stand up for black athletes I mean. Wow. That's that's a life right there for from Dr Richard. LAP check take time. We could have done that for three hours. Maybe someday, we wealth back after this.

basketball America Nascar Florida NBA Dr Richard Lab Saint John New York Knicks South Africa Lou Elsa Kareem abdul-jabbar New York City Orlando Sentinel murder Nelson Mandela South Africa United States Football
Hour 1 - Marty brings over beer, MLB close to a deal? And how are the restaurants doing in San Diego

The Darren Smith Show

46:18 min | 8 months ago

Hour 1 - Marty brings over beer, MLB close to a deal? And how are the restaurants doing in San Diego

"The White Glove guys previously Darren Smith Show. Six one nine number D Smith, show what needs a deep cleaning more inside mortgage trucker mornings. Roommate's room might Schwab out to the boy band united. Back I met leaving. I'm telling you right now. Daryn in my truck you. The back seat is spy. I keep it so clean. There's a little bit of sand here and there a couple of media guides one newspaper, but other than that spotless. Welcome to the Darren Smith Show. Was the one that brings us back soon. Am Radio Rain once law? Now? Here's Darren. We Love Extra thirteen sixty. or her their greetings to you. It is a Wednesday afternoon on Xtra Thirteen, sixty and FM one of three three. It is the tenth day of June four, two, thousand and twenty. I am Darren Smith. We are with you for three hours today. Taking you to the loose cannons, a little later on, we will have a packed show for you will be a little bit all over the map here on a rather warm Wednesday, as many of you in southern California or experiencing exactly the same, if extra thirteen sixty am or FM one zero three three. Don't work for you. We've got options. We've got HD. Radio One. Zero one point. Five FM channel number two. We've got the IHEART radio APP. which allows you to listen to the show wherever it might be that you are traveling, and whenever it is that you want to listen to us, just auto, download this program and many others. While you're at it, you can also check out who knows countless podcasts there via the iheartradio APP. Sports as DOT com. That's our website and you're smart. Speaker, Siri, and Alexa. They are enabled to start streaming US immediately. variety of guests. Today will tell you about him. Coming up first and foremost we say on showed number fifty six. From the wind cave, which today feels more like a wine cave than it did yesterday for those of you that got on my case and shamed me into turning on the air conditioning I did that I did that. Early I didn't wait for the temperature to hit a certain threshold. It is a nice cool wine cave exactly as you would expect. We say good afternoon to Mardi Caswell. Martha. What's going? By the way, it wasn't really so much for morty or any of the humans who exist in this house on a day in day out basis. I will tell you that. It wasn't so much about my level of comfort as we are under a fan, Mardi did say yesterday in the middle of the show. She's like well. I just got really really hot. And it wasn't about. My wife works downstairs. Who has these huge windows? And The Sun makes her office feel even warmer than it is in other parts of the house. It wasn't for the human yesterday. Just so we're all clear here, and it really wasn't so much for those of you. Who are shaming US via the text line? Seven, zero, four, seven, zero first word of the tax X, T R A, but during a commercial break, I went into the second bedroom. And I went, and I found CLEO. Cleo the cat. Who is the actual operator of this house? And she felt a little warm, so I said. I want to make sure that the cat is comfortable. So then I turned on the air conditioning, so to be clear about all of that. Our Comfort was of secondary concern to me yesterday. The humans can suffer. But when the cat felt a little bit warm I decided it was time to spring into action. But today. I got ahead of this. And? I had the air conditioning going before morty actually showed up prepared. Did, come prepared. You say Mardi wore a bathing suit to the house, which is very weird. She showed up with two six packs of beer and a bathing suit. I don't know what's going on here, but this was showed up. I don't know if this is a special occasion. Is the Mardi shut up a bathing suit? Two six packs of beer which I thought was just an interesting way to arrive. It was unlike any other time that you've arrived at this house over the last twelve weeks. I would agree with that, but I'd ask you is. Is there something wrong with that? No, no I mean listen. We have no end in sight as as I know no end in sight as far as I'm concerned when people keep. Keep asking well. How much longer you GonNa do this? I? Don't know show number fifty I ask Jack Chronic because if anybody's going to have a more educated guests than everybody else, said Jack pick a number between one and fifty. Do you think that we will do shows closer to fifty or closer to one jacks? Prediction was that we will be closer to one then fifty. Really that was Jackson prediction also point out that Jack Cronin from newsradio. Six hundred Kogo is an optimist. That's really use. Eternal optimist when it comes to these types of conversations, not that he doesn't live in reality sees the things that we all do but Jack definitely likes to put a positive spin on a lot of this sort of stuff, and it's appreciated because you can't just sit around here and wallow. You can't sit around and go. Oh, my goodness! The Sky is falling. You don't WanNa. Be a chicken little in life. Even though we're all sort of dealing with the same exact thing, we understand it's been taken twisted manipulated for political purposes. Many different ways, but Jack has always sort of said. Let's let's try to be positive, so jack thought the number would be closer to one than closer to fifty. The amount of shows that we will be separated for so that's Jack. So, we'll say. Did you then ask him to go ahead and picking up? Towards, baseball, no, I don't waste Jackson. Between Jefferson. Jack Scott of the things that are higher up on the priority list and based. He has press conferences to watch. Jack has press conferences to watch. There's no doubt about that. Who knows what Jim Russell showed up to the IHEART studios wearing today, but maybe there's a theme here. That I missed, but good afternoon to Jim Russell. This is Jim. Shop in a bathing suit today, couple of six pack of beer. What was your deal? How did you arrive at the IHEART studio today? I only do that if I'm going to a pool, party. Right, yeah, I mean I showed up wearing normal clothes. Today jeans shirt. It's nice and cool in here. That's why I mean. It's like ninety five outside, but in here it's like. Sixty eight. It's perfect. Marta thinks it's warmer today than it was yesterday. Yesterday was a record setting day. Did you know this yesterday? Ninety three in San? Diego ties the record high for June knife. You'd have to go all the way back to eighteen. Seventy seven to find a date where the temperature on June ninth was ninety three degrees I think there was also a record setting esque. Dido somehow it wasn't set and Santee where yesterday there was a record high of one hundred and one degrees in San. That was not a record, but there are other records that were tied around the county oceanside I think one area saying. Alcohol and I think tied a record as well so a couple of records set a couple of records equal. But yes, that that it's been a long time already I. Don't know that we speak often about the calendar year eighteen seventy seven, but you have to go way back. Often we don't often, it was warm so again in out of respect. Courtesy for the feline. Line. That runs this house. We're going to go with air conditioning today. We have it set at seventy six. Is that okay or would you prefer it a little cooler? What would you like and find again? I came prepared. Jim. Yes, you did. Yes, you did. Leading suit and I'm picturing Mardi walking through the streets, and north, park where it a bathing suit to six pack of beer and I'm like. I must have. been quite a sight. People. who were watching? Mardi walk up the stairs. Jim What what should, we sat now, this is. This is a big subject is a topic. What what would you like? Our our temperature to be set out in this house in order to? Pique Thermostat Effectively here in the house today. What is it right now? Is Somebody sex six? I'm going to go down yeah. I would go like around sixty eight. Well, I paid for the electric bill here you know. I like it cool. That's the thing I'm a guy that likes a cool area. I'm not a heat guy so all right? We'll go down seventy four. We'll see how it works Marty always. If you have any complaints, bring it up with. The cats and she's the one that gets things done around here. At this point as it relates to Major League Baseball as I've said it's sort of like the pandemic in the sense that you prepare for the worst, and you hope for the best and I think the worst in this situation is a fifty game, season or forty eight game, season or a fifty four game season, or whatever the mathematics are going to be in all of that today is a day. People are focused on baseball today for one reason and that. That is expecting some sort of dialogue back and forth between the owners and the players association headline as must be the next deadline of much less significance is the MLB draft, but that's happening a little later on today. The padres have the eighth pick in the draft. They also have the thirty four th pick in the draft today as we found out yesterday, the draft is going to be about four o'clock today on ESPN and ESPN and MLB network I think. And padres have a couple of picks year, so they will get through the first round. They will get through the compensatory picks. Or what do they call of not compensatory picks That's part of it. It is the. Oh. It has a term they they give it out the. Gas Dang it. What is the name of it? Because I was wondering. How was it that the padres ended up getting the thirty fourth peck an out of habit I sort of thought to myself. Well this is competitive balanced. Pick there. You go competitive balance. A pick, which is what they do for a competitive balance purposes. If you're a club like the padres I, guess it used to be directly tied to players that would go that would signed, and I saw that today and I can type A free agent. Lose they're getting this. Pick this thirty four th pick in the draft and as it turns out. NOT THIS IS A. Competitive Balance Pick. MLB! Pick number thirty four, a little later on today yesterday. Marty participated in a zoom press conference. I hope Y'all found it at sports as DOT, com, or found at Mardi as well because she worked hard yesterday, she was very frustrated. With her editing equipment. While she was sitting here. And Times stood still as a host I felt like I. Let her down because I didn't have any beer, for which is why she showed up with their own beer today and I didn't. I didn't have any beer right to direct result of yesterday one so hot in here. She wore a bathing suit over number two. I didn't have any beers. She was frustratingly dealing with editing equipment, so she took matters into our own hands, frustrated and sweating in your place. Like I was done. The air conditioning was on by the time that you were edited last ten minutes of the show is the cat was warm and you know the cats warm. We gotta do it. We gotta do, but you put that out there for consumption, and I hope people had a chance to watch it because listen. We don't have a deep well of original content. Or our content well as of dry as it relates to some of the video stuff that you're used still by now. Who knows how many interviews with Padre players Mardi would have done right at Petco Park again. The last one I did was Tummy Fam- on the the punishment for the Houston Astros back in February for all we know they don't. Have moved on from target. Manny Machado might not be going to Walmart. Going to your one, we don't know because. Mardi well good point I don't know that. But this was an opportunity for content. That's the name of the game so I hope people went and found that at sports as dot com that it was Aj Keller speaking about the draft. I'm guessing I don't know. An email come in. That there will be a post draft press conference conference. Call a little later on today while you participate in that I. AM possibly there's one today after the. First round or the thirty-seven picks, and there's another one tomorrow when the conclusion of it all okay, well Mardi will be there stuff for those of you like her starving for content, and she will be there and she will capture. We should almost to set up a little bit of. Aj Padre Bingo was that that was a fruit fly that was somehow in this house. Wasn't here a couple of hours ago, but I'm not pointing any fingers. I'm just GONNA ask that. They will love the player that they got. They are surprised later that they got still available right and these are some of the themes that we get every single year. Well we just want good players. You know the more good players you have high impact, guys, you know we want. High impact is guys with high ceiling. Players. You know that we really feel can contribute to what it is that we're all about like that, and you might as well if you're if you're unavailable for today's press coverage just run last year. Be Able to tell the difference. Just do like a really obnoxious audio dub. Where instead of CJ Abrams you just say Jim Russell or whatever this year's pick is yes. Cj Abrahams last year six overall. Ryan weather's two years ago seven, th overall Mackenzie Gore three years back number three overall back in two thousand sixteen cal Cointreau selected eighth overall. Last time the PADRES had the eighth pick in the draft. which is what they have today. That was cal. Cointreau made it to the big leagues he did. The year before that it was James Shields. Because, they lost that pick by signing James Shields. No they were able to salvage something out of that by getting Fernando Totti's junior decent decent return. Yeah, probably better than worrying about the twelfth overall pick I believe it was in that year straps, so that'd be a little later on now. As far as it goes baseball, we have more Sadam Abi tweets. Some of them started rolling in last night and. As all the baseball reporters? Started hearing from their sources around the league, they started tweeting some of this hour and. It was very sad. Very Sad John Hayman initial reaction from ownership source, following players latest proposal and I've already forgotten the details of the latest proposal I think it was something about eighty games. I think eighty nine games initial reaction from ownership source following players latest proposal quote. We're nowhere. We're nowhere said ownership source. We also had jared diamond the Wall Street Journal. Who has become more frequent guest on this show? He's made the show better. The owners don't consider the Union's proposed that it'd be moving the ball, even a little. They are not trying one person on the management side tells me not trying. They are not trying, said the owners. The owners don't consider the Union's proposal removing the ball, not even a little bit. They're not even trying one source on the management side tells me so I know that there were other sad tweets, if anybody has feel free to contribute. Here's the thing though and. In the bigger picture of life because we can really really zone in and zero in and really spend a lot of time. Talking about. Baseball back and forth owners, billionaires players Mares, right. And then you can move away from the sports page, and you can move away from the sports twitter and the baseball twitter for a little bit and the fun that were attempting to have at the sad mlb tweets. And you can read. Other sections of the news. and. You can read about what's happening in Arizona and you can read about what's happening in Texas, and you can read about what's happening in. North. Carolina and you can read about what's happening in south. You can read about what's happening a lot of these places, and this is in about the. What's it called the? What is it like? The fear Porn I think is is the term that I've seen kicked around here that if you accurately report now, there is a doom and gloom element to this which you know we've tried to avoid. And I think should be avoided that Oh my goodness. We're all GONNA die and nobody should ever leave their house again until there's a vaccine I. Don't know that that's the answer, and neither does anybody else. But you can read about some of the real life stuff that's happening and not only what the rate of infection is in some of these other places since Memorial Day, but also more importantly, perhaps because we know, testing is going up. You can read about the rate of hospitalization. And you can see what's happening in other parts of the country and all of this back and forth. Between players and owners. Might have been for nothing. I'm not predicting that we're not gonNA get baseball. because. I can't predict the future, but all this back and forth now as tired as people are hearing billionaires and millionaires, millionaires and billionaires and I'd play this game for free, and these owners are a bunch a grubby greedy. dirtbags that don't care about the sport. A player actually said that on twitter. It'd be nice if we had owners that cared about the sport. Wow, what a statement! That is all of this very public back and forth. Through people in the media might be for nothing. When you think about the sad tweets, we're dredging up. All the sad tweets might not be for because we don't even know that they're going to be able to get back up and running. We don't know I still think that they will try or they can. They could try, or they could actually get back and running and not be able to complete even a shortened season correct, and then all of this ill-will. All of this bad blood that we've seen play out publicly. We'll have just somehow made it worse, right? And you can point, and you could say well. Hey, listen I've seen soccer now in Germany being played for three weeks. Yeah, but they're operating on a totally different system than baseball. Hey, I've heard you talk about Spanish soccer i. don't give a rip about Spanish soccer. Isn't that coming back tomorrow? Yes, a matter of fact to the second division is point today. But they are operating with a much different structure and system than baseball plans on playing with. Baseball plans on playing in their home ballparks, and allowing their players to go home and. Right wrong. I guess we'll have to wait and see. But basketball and taking that chance new. Hockey isn't taking that chance. MLS isn't taken that chance at least not now. Part of their plans somewhere down the road. We'll talk with Landon. Donovan coming up our number two. But imagine if you put your business out there. Which is turned? Almost everybody off who enjoys this? Who enjoys the back and forth between players and owners? WHO ENJOYS THE MLB? Sad tweets. I don't think he really would have really. And what if it's for nothing? What if it's for nothing because you can't actually get the sport off the ground because we'll see a second way in Arizona imagine if you had gone. Wow, you're this the spike right now happening in Arizona. But in certain places, it definitely catches your attention if you pay. If you read some of that, you go. Oh Man! That that that hasn't. That's not going real well there is it and imagine if all of this bad blood being put out there. In public was for nothing because you couldn't play the sport anyway. Then what then what do we do? WHAT DID WE LEARN PALMER? We learned into precursor for next year. When the negotiations on the CVA it's really contentious. This is just A. Primer. That's what we learn I got. I mean really that's it. Talk about making a situation worse. I mean potentially because again, and none of these other leagues can guarantee you that they're going to get off the ground. The NBA couldn't guarantee you today that it's going to get off the ground. The NHL can't guarantee you today. It's going to get off the ground. And Baseball in particular, and for whatever reason justified unjust you can, you can analyze. However, you want to feel about it, but choosing to do it the baseball way. Traveling hotels. You can take all the precautions in the world. Nobody's going to be safe. Not In a bubble environment not in in the bubble. Thing that that we're talking about an nobody's ever going to be a hundred percent safe from this and you know it'd be foolish to think that you could create something a situation where it is. But Man. They they might have put their business out there for nothing you know and. Bad Paul. It's just bad optics. It just as bad optics for me coming up on the show in our next segment. Jeff Rosman is gonNA. Join US Jeff Rosman. Is a restaurant owner. Who is part of the California, restaurant, association. He's the president of the San Diego Chapter of the California Restaurant Association. If I have his title correct Yes Jeff Rothmans GonNa to join us. He joined us very early on in this process it was it was right after the initial stay at home, orders kicked in the place, and we had them on to talk about well, what can people do? We want to support restaurant gift. Gift cards this is when the when the restaurants are open. We're only open for for pickup and delivery. Right and I I think before they were able to deliver alcohol so really early in the process very early on now we're finding out little Italy on India, street in fact will become the pilot case to have alfresco dining tables out there bars out there on the street. It's very exciting if I were definitely going. Going to be in town this weekend. I would absolutely go to India Street while I'm pretty sure I would go to India Street and see what that looks like Saturday between five and ten o'clock, but Jeff Rosman. Who again is the president of the San Diego? Chapter of the California Restaurant Association will join us, and we'll just talk some shop for ten minutes. Get an update. How's everything going? What are some of the? The challenges you know. What is the toll already? Etcetera Etcetera Etcetera, coming up our number two. We're going to speak with landon. Donovan, who missed yesterday? For whatever reason but landon will be available to us as we know US planning on coming back on July eleven, so we'll talk with landon about what that looks like what it's been like in training and practice sessions. Etc. I'm told that they are allowed to to totally. Go Eleven on eleven, but will let land and explain that and then our number three. This is a name that that I know the last name lap check. His is Dr Richard Lap check. He will join us and I know that because his dad coached at Saint John's and dad was also head coach of the New York next the lap chick name. In new. York City is a really really big. Big Deal His dad's part of the Saint John's hall of fame, and is responsible for like three or four, an IT titles and people go like an it back. When I was the prestigious basketball tournament, he really was so influential, and I can remember being in College in broadcasting from the Joe Lap Chick Holiday Memorial Tournament. Oh is that right because we had a tournament that was named after Dr. Chicks Dad who was a basketball coach? Obviously he is. An activist he is an educator. He's an author. I would invite you between now and two o'clock just to to look up who Richard Lab. Chick is He has been on the front lines of. Equality and activism raise in sports. He's considered one of the foremost experts on the subject of race and sports, and it's not just that he talks the talking. This is a guy who's walked the walk. I'll read you a clip from something. He wrote in the Orlando Sentinel. Reach recently in which you know in the seventies. He was actually attacked in his office for speaking of about racial injustice. He was attacked and somebody used a pair of scissors to carve the N. word into his stomach. So you know this is a guy who's been there who has been personally? Invited to sit with NASA Nelson Mandela, somebody who is lifelong friends with Kareem abdul-jabbar. There's a lot like this this to me. This is a name that I knew the name I didn't know a lot about Richard Lap check, but I knew a lot about his dad. Obviously so he's GonNa join US coming up in our number three and he's invested his entire life into the subject about race sports honored violence. This is honored. By Jesse Jackson Rainbow Push, coalition in two thousand, nine for the lifetime achievement in working for civil rights, craziest resumes insane. Written more books than most of us have read consulted for the NBA Sterling after his racism, racism became front and center or his what he's done is. It's remarkable. Yeah! I'll look into doing and still is is a part of it, and he's a part of many different organizations. He's a professor He's just got. It's an incredible life, so we're looking forward to that. Coming up in the third hour of the show. When we return, we are going to check in with. The local restaurants are doing here in San Diego County the President the California of the San Diego Chapter California. Restaurant Association. Jeff Jefferson joins US next on the. Loose cannons coming up at three o'clock today the Revenue Al Sharpton called out Roger. Goodell said Forget the Holidays Bring Colin Kaepernick back. Should the commissure Spahn. Or break it down on Xtra. Thirteen sixty. Fox Board San Diego NFL one zero three three. All right getting set the speak with Jeff. Rosman here momentarily perfectly time that we read this area restaurants, still offering takeout, and or delivery. Of course, many of them are now open for you to go and Dine End, but you can visit I. Help S. T. Dot Com for a frequently updated list of all the Santa Eateries. WHO OFFER TAKEOUT and delivery? That's help St Dot Com and thank you very much. San Diego. It was March twenty four th when we met. Jeff Rosman here on this show. He is the president the San Diego chapter, of the California Restaurant Association he also is. His own business owner Tara hospitality which we learned about last time Jeff Rothman was on the show, but we figured a good time. Now we're starting to see what's going on in little Italy. What's being proposed across the state? Just checking in and seeing how it's been here over the last two and a half three months Jeff Rosman joining us on extra thirteen sixty jeff. Darren Smith again. Thank you very much for being available to us. Yeah, brother how you doing. I'm doing well. How are you guys doing I know it's been a while, and we're remiss in not having checked in sooner, but man. This has been an unprecedented stretch time in our county, and in our country all across the world How how would you say it's gone over the last two and a half months? You know been interesting we. As a business owner we were we were doing okay. At the beginning there are a lot of people that were still trying to figure out what to do. So in my estimation, there weren't a lot of other restaurants catering companies that were offering curbside and delivery and takeout, so you know we were doing pretty well, and then around Mother's Day there's a lot of other restaurants and catering companies and started offering packages now that restaurants are back open. You know it's hot as heck outside people down to the beach are walking around. Things are starting opened again. It just seems like people are still. very hesitant in certain areas right so certain areas. You're seeing booming down TV. Down by the. Water, little Italy restaurants are starting to pick up a little bit I think the outlying areas where we're at over close to the Maitha. you know people are still hesitant. Come Out, and then you know. All the restaurants were re opening. We reopened last Wednesday and boom. We were hit with all these protests. And because of the protests and curfew started to go into effect out here in East County Lamesa, and Santee curfews all the way up until. Monday. so we opened up and people were scared about coming out, so it's it's just been a roller coaster man. That's been really crazy now. We're talking to I just off the phone with. Some international catering people. talking about what catering and events and weddings or possibly GonNa look like and how some states are reopening for events, and it's just crazy. Man I I can't. I can't even explain it right now. Oh my goodness it I mean one of these days you write a book about Jeff. Rosman is joining us to California Restaurant Association San Diego. President who we met a couple of months back on. Fortunately, not everybody was able to to make it through this stretch draft. Would you know just a ballpark figure of of what the damage has been in terms of restaurants that were unable to last through the pandemic through the shutdown, and how many we've had many. We've lost through this. I think the numbers are still you know being calculated, and even we got the good news about the PCP financing and things like that him. There's a seminar that happened this morning on PP, and and how businesses can go about it. And so I think that. As of right now I think that the national average and in San Diego probably pretty close. It's about twenty five percent one in four restaurants. haven't made I. Haven't made it back and I think that that number might unfortunately increase because now we're now. We're hearing about Other states having issues La came out and said that they were having a spike, so some spikes around the country, and what? What does that mean to customer sentiment? You know as much as we want people to come out to restaurants and dining parking lots perhaps or You know things like that. There's still that sentiment that people are still worried about so even if I get the P P us that that loan money. When it runs out after my twenty four weeks now are people still gonNA be coming back to restaurant, so they're not coming back to restaurant, so I think you might see some additional closures here the next three months that people just say hey, you know what screw it. We can't. We can't make it work. There's some restaurants that still haven't opened because they can't. Can't make the social distancing work so I mean it's. It's ever changing and I think that the general public needs to needs to certainly keep ordering curbside and delivery as much as possible to keep all of us around. Otherwise you're going to see these boarded up restaurants from all the protesting and everything. It's GonNa. It's GonNa. They're GONNA be be there for a while. Unfortunately. Things are changing. I mean at least at least it got open, but there's still a lot of work to do. And what was it like I? Mean you know amongst you and your contemporaries? What was it like when you were finally given the green light to open backup I mean obviously some of these restaurants. They weren't built for fifty twenty five percent capacity. That's not the business model. That's not the way it works. So so, what were the adjustments like in the restaurant industry? You know once the green light was given for the the businesses like yours and others to go ahead and welcome people to dining again. I mean it was great. Don't get me wrong as a chef and an owner I've I've been talking to our guests that come in, and it's so nice to see people. out again in the chairs, and it's so nice to see plates of food as opposed to go box right, so I think the sentiment was a lot a lot of joy to to be able to open back up and the issue being and I think I said this. The last time that I was on is is that the customers need to understand that there's going to be? some changes, so you had. Five servers. Let's say in the dining room. You might only have two now and so the the level of service is is GONNA be I don't WanNa. Say compromise, but it's not going to be like it used to be. It's not that social gathering and I think that's what what people are starting to realize and us as restaurants. You know as much hospitality. We WanNA give the. There's not There's not that that feel of that dining Experience, it's you know the the tables or spars. The restaurants are sparse. There's nothing on the tables really anymore. you know we're bringing place mats and Silverware and Water on request and out when they they come in. So you know it's experiences changed but I I think that there's still a lot a lot of work to do. You know you said the the model isn't really sustainable, and it's not because the restaurant. They only make about six cents on the dollar, right? Our expenses are super super high so to do it with. Fifty percent occupancy or sixty percent occupancy, or or what have you is still still a difficult shore so? It's it's not a sustainable model. By any means, so hopefully like I said that PD the P. will will allow a lot of us to keep going and then consumer sentiment will will help. propel in the right direction. So and also as Jeff said here just because they're open now. Don't forget about to go orders. Don't forget about delivery because that really helps especially with a public that one hundred percent isn't ready to go back into that type of Environment Jeff where we're going to see in little Italy this weekend. Apparently, it'll be the pilot for some of the ALFRESCO dining about taking tables outside cafes, restaurants, etc, closing down streets as an industry and each case will be different. Obviously not everybody will have that opportunity. It's going to be a community effort. But how much do you think that can help in the restaurant industry? I'd say it's been all over the news to the the mayor's curbside program. They were interviewing some people in the news this morning. Even From La Hoya where Piazza's and I I think that. It will help those directly in that zone. and it hopefully I. mean every little bit will help I think that It would get people going back out again. Eating in Patios maybe parking lots restaurant. We're talking about doing a little parking lot conversion. The government has allowed us to do that, so we can serve out in the parking lot putting tables out there. So you know whatever gets people to feel comfortable about going out, and and like you said those that aren't comfortable. Still demand we have curbside and delivery for you, we have. It's pretty easy. Process Order Online, so there's a lot of restaurants that you can support that way gift cards. I've had people say hey, we support you buying gift cards as certainly by gift cards online and use them at a future date. Give them to father father's day coming up. Graduations are here you know there's other ways to help. Support all local small businesses. and. You're in hospitality, also catering a big part of what it is that you do. I mean weddings and graduation. Parties I don't know what the status is. We always think about on premise going into an establishment and sitting down ordering drinks all that sort of stuff. What what about the hospitality or what about the catering aspect of business? What's that look like for you? Well basically it's dead The governor's order is not gatherings period so as a matter of fact I was on the phone this morning with a local department of Environmental Healthier and We're trying to come up with protocols much like we did for the restaurants for the event industry, and what that looks like what what at different venues weddings events so? As long as the governor, has his pulse. Keeping gatherings close. There are no official. Catered events until that gate is. Followed through so. you know we're trying to now work with county. Officials here hopefully in the near future, saying hey, we have this under control. Just like the restaurant protocols. We have under control tears. In certain circumstances with the buffets for example, or you know what's been going on with other states that have already opened up their weddings and Events and Trying to get the governor to release some some of that, because there's a thousands and thousands of event professionals, we're talking deejays efficient Flores. Wedding coordinators photo Blue Disc Jockey. The list goes on. That are sitting idle right now. Also getting them back employed off unemployment I mean. There's a huge part of the economy so hopefully that's going to press forward here pretty soon, but yeah, as of right now, basically all catered events unless it's the drop off, so we can certainly do drop-offs food, but as far as full service events they're. They're squash right now by the governor of California unfortunately. And and I mean Gosh I just I feel so bad for for all the people in your guys. Business Jeff Rosman here final question. There's an old phrase about necessity is the mother of invention and you know we are living here with with what is deemed necessary. With with regards to the pandemic. Is there any invention that has come from this I mean. Is there something that in your Industry Jeff that you look at whether it's to go boxers, or whatever is there something that's come from this that you think you know that's good, and and hopefully the you know we get through all of this and that becomes A. Part of the restaurant and catering industry. But I think a lot of the sanitation protocols not so much from a business perspective, but from a consumer perspective. You know I think it. It took the pandemic to let people know. Hey. I got a stricken wash my hands I gotta be clean. I can't you know. Be Touching going to the bathroom and not washing my hands and touching the bathroom doors. I can't tell you how many times I've seen that. Happen or at an event where we're doing a buffet and someone just says okay I'm. I'M GONNA. Grab a fork and just start eating right here off the buffet. I mean there's stuff like that. That's been going on and I hope that you know people understand this moving forward, and I think that you know you're gonNA. See just like if you go to Jersey Mike Surf, you go the subway or any of these places that have sneeze guards I think that that's going to be the next Spang with with events. you know, and I'm I'm all for sanitation and and I think. Again from a business perspective, we do all of our all of our best at the sanitation protocols, but it's the consumer the people that that. that are more aware now and I hope that this continues on moving forward. Jeff we appreciate it. Hang in there. We're doing what we can I. Know that a lot of people in this audience whether it's to go orders or delivery or heading back into the restaurants as they start to open up A as as we start to see a little bit more of that I hope we're all doing our part, but thank you for doing this for updating us on. What's going on in your world? My pleasure thanks to you, and it's all your listeners and keep the faith and we'll see in the restaurants, and hopefully out there at the events and weddings real soon. Thanks again. You got to Jeff Rothman. WHO's the San Diego President of the California restaurant? Association, Sandiego chapter, he's the president of the Santa Cruz chapter. That's a mouthful there and the chef and owner of Tara hospitality, which is a little bit out east from where we are here today so again it's it's hard man, and you know just as as however you shake out on some of the protests and things that we've seen you know there is that side of it, which definitely as I've said here close to home. Literally close to home, it impacted local businesses here where they've had the clothes and you go. Gosh, Almighty I'm sort of torn on this because I've been talking about this for a couple of months. And now we're talking about this and you know there's just no easy way to to sift or any of that Jeff Rosman. We appreciate his time back after the Internet is here. It's going to go to one morning on Costian. Richard sued the padres take with the eighth overall pick, and why this bizarre draft, maybe one of the most important in major league baseball history will tell you why tomorrow we'll see. It's six on Xtra Thirteen, sixty and FM one zero three. I Landon Donovan GonNa Join US coming up in our number two coming up our number, three Dr, Richard Lap check will join us, and we will talk to him. About the role of sports, as we start talking social justice and How Different Leagues are at handling? Issues of race. Equality, hiring practices, this is a big part of what Dr Richard Lap does on I did a little bit of background reading on this earlier, and he gives out grades for how leagues or structured etc, how a diversity diversity hiring things along those lines and. I thought that baseball would be pretty bad at this baseball actually is not too terrible at this. It's just you know it's that it's so diverse. It's just diverse in a different way. It's diverse in that you don't have a lot of black players, but you do have. It's national international players right? A lot of people from the Dominican Republic Venezuela CETERA and. Their manager hiring is is okay so. It's an interesting because you know sometimes you can. You can draw incorrect conclusions, and then you can go to people who studied this sort of stuff. Basil makeup of of the players. Betsy right right now, and that's that's a baseball thing. I mean I think that's also a young thing as it relates to baseball, so yeah, we'll. We'll speak with him coming up a little later on really just a what a what a story on Dr Richard Object and I really do hope that some of you who are searching unless you think well that conversation fizzled out, didn't it? You know it sort of came and went and I. Don't think so I think it's putting park. Park for quite a while, and I think somebody who's who's devoted his entire life to the subject matter. Literally he's devoted his entire life to the subject matter, so I can't think of too many people who were going to make us smarter than Dr Richard. Lap joining us in our number three and let me great and to your point on wondering if people are thinking. Hey, you know it's going to be back burner now the. Protests protests are are pretty much over the funeral. George Floyd was laid to rest yesterday. There seems to be the buzz gun away. I actually think that as sports comes back in true fashion with what's going to be Nascar this weekend whether it's going to be Yucel. Mba. I think that is when it comes back to two games. Actually zooming is when the issue becomes front and center. Because how will a different leagues react? What's going to be different as they move ahead? Picture today from Arsenal football club. Which those of you don't know. This is an English primarily club, and this is the club that's owned by Silent Stan. Kroenke as a matter of fact, this is where the name silence Dan comes from. and Arsenal as the Premier League is getting set to to pick back up on June seventeenth I think it is. Their entire squad. Inside of their Stadium Their Home Stadium the Emirates. I don't know if you saw this or not, but wearing different shirts, some of which says. See if I consume in here, some says I can't believe some say black lives matter some say time for a change They're just all sorts of different staying sayings now I. Don't care about Arsenal at all I really really don't i. just thought it was a really powerful picture show tomorrow all the different players, and just you know all all the different faces that you have there again and all these shirts say some of them. Them are are repetitive. You know like they're more than than one of each kind of sharp. It seems like there's five or six different shirts with some pretty powerful messaging on it, and a very very diverse club arsenal. Again I don't. I don't care all that much about the club itself. They've always their fans here. Locally have always treated me well. They gathered at Blue Foot Bar, which is down the road here down on thirtieth. Street and And they've got a great passionate fan, but it'd be nice. Okay last year I. Don't know maybe no. That was a Barcelona bar. It's okay, it's okay. That was good effort. It was a good effort. I re tweeted not because I'm re tweeting. Everything I just thought it was a really really powerful imaging, and like I said I. It's the first time I've probably ever ever re tweeted anything from Arsenal. Not that have anything against them I just. You know. Whatever and it just you know it's just a great image in every single players down on one knee right there on the center line and you know just go. Wow, you know. That's happening in London. That's Today in London, which is still quite a statement. When we come back our number two I wanNA talk about Reggie Bush, and then we'll talk with Landon Donovan at one thirty all that coming up our number two.

baseball Jeff Rosman California San Diego Mardi padres president Jim Russell Landon Donovan Darren Smith Jeff US MLB little Italy morty Jack Mardi basketball Donovan
Hour 3 - Richard Lapchick, Darren's cat litter box problems, TV listings and a joke from JIm

The Darren Smith Show

39:47 min | 8 months ago

Hour 3 - Richard Lapchick, Darren's cat litter box problems, TV listings and a joke from JIm

"Get an update from you on how it's going. And what's your plan is? What's your approach is going to be to tackling this very important issue. Milk into that Darren Smith, show? That brings us back soon. AM radio while rain once more. Now here's Darren. We love you. Extra thirteen sixty. Eight is our number three on extra thirteen, Sixty FM one, zero, three three in the iheartradio. APP. If you were just getting with you with us here on this Wednesday, this is show number fifty six for us broadcasting from the kitchen table as week number, twelve or about halfway through our stay at home orders, continuing to broadcast here each and every afternoon and I say this a little bit earlier you know when we saw what happened in Minneapolis. And then we started seeing the reaction from the sports world. I agree with something that our next guest wrote. It really does feel though. I understand at times I'm a bit skeptical that people get bored and they move on to other things It felt like this was a pivot point in this country as it related to race and civil rights, and so as I started searching around I came across piece on diversity in sports, and it was written by Dr Richard Lab Chick. WHO's getting set the join us? WHO's an author who's a civil rights activist who has dedicated his life to this and that last name really resonated with me as somebody who went to Saint John's university in Queens New York and for good reason, because joe lap chick is was a coach at my Alma, mater and I I know that there was the Joe Lap Chick holiday tournament every single year, and so that name really resonated with me as somebody who is around the basketball program an awful lot well. He went on to coach the next return to Saint John's and he had a son. Dr Richard Lap Chick, who is a professor at the University of Central Florida who's considered one of the leading experts on the relationship of race and sports? He's an author. More books than most of us have read, and he's kind enough to join us here this Wednesday afternoon on. Xtra thirteen sixty Dr, Richard. Lab Chick appreciate your time. This is Darren Smith in San Diego. Thank you very much. Darren happy to be with the Saint John's alum. Well appreciate it as I said I said well I. Don't know too many laps chicks in the world so I I was very very pleased to know that we were looking to come on the show, and that there was a little bit of a connection there your. Your Dad meant a lot to those of US titles, and it titles lot of wins I don't know that you do or don't have many memories from from the days at Saint. John's, but really quite a big deal for New York City basketball fans, not only for my Alma Mater for the New York. Knicks. Now. Some of my most vivid memories are of those days. And and one that you probably don't know about is When I was literally five years old I looked outside. My bedroom window yakkers where I was raised. And so my father's been swinging from a tree with people under the tree picketing and I had no idea what it was about. accepted a lot of people were angry with this man who was my best friend. And I would later find out. Has I grew older that as the coach of New York Knicks. He signed the first African American player in the history of the NBA, not sweetwater Clifton. and. There are a lot of people who were unhappy. They did that now league this eight. Nearly eighty percent players of color wasn't ready. In some people's mind in nineteen fifty when my dad sweetwater. Let's amazing. I, if you wouldn't mind doctor logic, could you give us you know just? And I'm sure that that played significant role in turning you into the person that you have been in your life, dedicating your life to the conversations of race and sports. But how have how? How's your life taken form? How how have you ended up in the position that you are in today? I do a lot of public speaking and I'm just about seventy five and I always start off by saying you. You must be wondering why you have the seventy five year old white guy. You're talking about race. In America and not always have that incident in my life as a five year old that My Dad was a triple inducted into the basketball hall of fame, and everybody told me I'd be an NBA player. And of course I love that dream in eighth grade I was one of the tallest players in New York City area I was recruited by. The SCHUYLKILL Power Memorial High School, which was a top basketball program in the country at that time. Didn't go there, but became friends with the coach name was Jack Donahue and he. Invited me to go to his summer camp in nineteen sixty one. Which I did was start up camp. There were five other guys and a black guy that they were all his players in power. And one of the guys was dropping the N. Word on the Black Guy for the first three days until I finally challenged. He literally knocked me out cold. The Black Guy was then called. Do alcindor Kareem and I have been lifelong friends since then. To the extent that when his statue was unveiled at the staple center, he asked me to speak got it he invited me to. be a witness. When he received the Presidential Medal of freedom from Barack Obama at the last month of his administration, and when I was scheduled surgery here in Orlando which is where I live. He flew to Florida to be with me. So, the friendship has lasted a lifetime, but as a fifteen year old white kipper yakkers in nineteen, thousand, nine, hundred and sixty one. Lou than now Korean provided me with a Young African American Lens with which to watch. What racism was doing his community. And it made me decide as a fifteen year old that I wanted to spend. The rest of my life working and civil rights in some fashion I had no idea what it would take a or what it would look like then. I ended up going and getting a PhD in International Race Relations and my dissertation was on how South Africa use sport. As part of its foreign policy and the international response to. It got published as a book. This is in the mid nineteen seventies now. I was asked to speak about it. I ended up forming the sports boycott of South Africa because of apartheid in South Africa. And the first thing was coming to the United States in the early nineteen, seventy eight, and my job is that of the coalition was to get. The matches stopped, so I went down. To Nashville where the matches were scheduled to be held. Built a lot of Enthusiastic crowds for one of the matches canceled. The African governments had asked me to announce. That they would boycott. The nineteen eighty four Los Angeles. Olympic Games if this was indeed allowed to come. I announced that to the crowd before I started my speech to media there because we leaked to the press what it was about. Dick SCHAAP was covering NBC nightly news at the time came up to me, and he said it looks like the financial backers of the Davis Cup of pulling out. And matches. We're going to be canceled. I announced that to the crowd, it was an anti-apartheid crowd. they all went crazy and what I flew Virginia whereas teaching at the time. I thought maybe for the first time in my life. I've done something worthwhile. The next night I was working late and my college office the Office, the school's Library, which closed the ten thirty. Ten forty, five hundred and knock on the door was the campus security police. so I didn't hesitate to answer because they routinely checked when they saw a light on after the building was closed. Instead. Those two men wearing stocking NASA proceeded to cause look, liver, damage, kidney, damage, hernia concussion and carved the N. Word in my stomach with a pair of office scissors. Ally in the hospital that night I knew that I was going to spend the rest of my life. I using the sports platform to try to address various social justice issues in particular racism. I realize that if people would go onto the link, they did to try to stop my father twenty eight years before and going. They did try to stop me that night. That they must've thought we were having an impact on racism in America using that sports platform, and that's what I've done for the rest of my life. Amazing Dr Richard Lab. Check joining us on extra thirteen sixty. You mentioned Lew Alcindor Kareem abdul-jabbar. I had read recently here. After the murder of George Floyd, he wrote an op Ed in the L. A. Times, and I'm sure. Dr Lab Jackie read that. He's he's obviously a very influential person. As it relates to the subject of race and Sports, and here he is all these years later writing what it is that he's writing, and I would recommend for everybody to go and to try to track down the op-ed that he wrote just a couple of weeks back How do you feel about where we are today? You know having seen so much and I'm sure A. A lot of progress, but with with so many so much more left ahead of us. How do you feel about where we are today? I know you wrote in the Orlando Sentinel your. Gut tells you that this is a real pivot point. We hope that you're right. But how do you feel about the conversation? And where we are today? Having had the the opportunity and put yourself in a position to see so much. Well I think you know I I have seen so much, and I can tell by. You know when you think John's that you have yourself. Both in the civil rights movement and and things that have happened since then we've seen people. Demonstrated in the streets and people raise types of concerns about racism, but that has never really been sustained. Beyond the news cycles of those periods of time and I think part of it is. We were seeing still photographs. That were horrific, but nothing like what we saw. With the brutal murder in Minneapolis could police go to see them on video. so many times during the last two weeks. Makes it impossible to try to deny what we're talking about. In terms of how brutal racism can be. I think so that this these two generations of the millennials generation Z.. Are Much more compassionate and passionate about social justice issues they have the technology with social media as well as smartphones to record that history, and I think that a pivotal point of why I'm optimistic is not only those things, but the voices of athletes. And people in the world of sports speaking out. It wasn't that long ago when athletes were. Intimidated about raising their voices because their careers could add, but now there's so many athletes doing it that there's a safety net for them and we track. the number of stories about. Who who speak out and I just had just saw the total. There have been three hundred and twenty four. Athletes, coaches or teams or leagues that have said something or done some action in the wake of this murder. and I think we're GONNA. See that sustain. You probably saw today that fourteen hundred. Athletes signed a letter. to Congress about. sure that there's no immunity from either police or federal workers. if they commit some kind of act that could be defined as a hate crime so. I think those things make me feel that maybe this time. It's going to be different that only history is going to tell us that. How how different you know, you talk about the athletes who are speaking out and you know you reference. Elsa Kareem abdul-jabbar as one and I think if there's one thing and you know you talked a little bit about tracking the athletes who are speaking out. Just the black athletes, how important is it for them to find their footing, and to not be fearful to have a voice? But how important is it Dr? Lab for the white athletes to jump into the conversation, and to not leave it up to the just black athletes to do all the talking in this regard. Well. It can't get all done unless white athletes are involved just like in society as a whole. It can't get done if it's just members of black lives, matter, but they need. White allies to be working with them to try to bring about the change that that we all feel as necessary, so it's critically important and I think that's another big differences. Right now is they're significantly more. White? Demonstrators joining black demonstrators in the streets, and Significantly more athletes that are part of. The campaign to fight racism. And that's the difference right I mean. Is that as big a difference as has been pointed out in the here and now Have you noticed that as well that it's not just been up to the black athletes to to make statements to? March but have you noticed that that there is a genuine increase in that regard? No they're definitely has and. you know I saw that among the people who signed the letter today were Tom Brady, and drew brees got. So much criticism last week for what he said about kneeling, but I think that. You know he reflected on it, then retracted instantly and drew brees. Of course it had A. You know amazing record supporting the people of New Orleans. During his tenure, the saints so there was a sense of disguise really pretty genuine, so the forgiveness was easier with him than it might have been somebody else, but breezes now one of those activists talking about. about racism in his community and around the country. It. You know it's it seems to me that that people are asking questions about how to get conversation started and. Even, in twenty twenty Dr logic, this might be a foreign concept for some people based on on their own upbringing. Where was that they lived? You've been doing this almost your entire life. In terms of getting conversation started I don't know where the onus is I. Don't know if it's on. wight people are black people. I would say it's upon all of us to to have conversations right. What would you say to some? You know who are wondering how to do that, you know. Maybe they're well intentioned, but it just. It hasn't been part of their upbringing. Station earlier about when the first time was that any of US had a black teacher and for me. It wasn't until Saint John's. But but in terms of getting conversation started you. You've made a life out of this. What do you say to people? And what would you advise to people who who are sincere in wanting to get it going, but who maybe don't know how? Well historically has been a very difficult thing to talk about race in America. for white people and Black people black people. you know were. Hank shis about exposing the extent of of what they face. Because you know, I'll tell you. Here is a difference that. In nineteen seventy eight after I was attacked, a lot of people said to me well now you understand what is like to be black and my response was. I really don't because I could walk away from this 'cause at any moment, and then just rejoined the white middle class, and I would never face any discrimination again whereas a black person every time they go out of their house. Faces the potential of something happening to them with racism with some active racism, and I think that. What we're hearing now is more Black people are willing to talk about the daily affects the simple things that happen to them that could never happen to a white person and white people. I think are listening more than they did in the past, and I think that's also a key element is. You know white people who are sympathetic needs to try to understand in depth what it means to have racist acts potentially in your in your face almost every day of your life. by listening to black people by Reading what people have written or what they're saying on the air now has the as they take to the airwaves. You have also studied These sports leagues and the teams themselves as a matter of fact, your part of a process every year that that hands out grades for how different leagues are handling both racial diversity and also gender diversity as well. What would you say about where the different leagues are? NFL MLB major league soccer NBA an how equipped they are to to to be a vehicle for these kinds of conversations. I'd say that the NBA is is way ahead. if we include the women's leagues, the WNBA Equally ahead major league soccer's done a pretty good job on racial and gender hiring practices. we've seen so much controversy at the end of last season with the NFL, and only four head coaches of color and two general managers of color after all these years and you know people are talking about. You know. Modifying the Rooney rule and some actions. We're taking about several weeks ago by the NFL owners. But I think that one of the different things that we're going to have as a freshman by the way college sport is by far the worst. You know we have so few African American head coaches in College, football and college basketball that it's it's amazing and and. Probably, the worst statistically report every year and those report cards is that. This is now forty eight years after the passage of time of title nine, which gave Women's equality? Status in the world of sport as well. And sixty percent of women's teams across all three divisions or coached by men. And fifty percent of all the coaches assistant coaches are women. Teams are men. Forty eight years after the passage of title nine, but I go into a college campus, and I asked him director which i. Frequently had the opportunity to do. Would you consider hiring a woman as the head coach of one of your men's teams? I gotta look like well. I heard. You're crazy laptop, but now I really know. Because it's such Malian thought, but nonetheless we have sixty percent of our women's teams coach by men, and nobody thinks anything about. Why are colleges? So traditionally me? My theory is you know that in a lot of places in this country you know. The college coach is Sorta the face right in the pros. Patrick Mahomes is the face of the chiefs with all due respect to Andy Reid, but in college because the players psycho through so much, it's the coach and I. Guess in some of the country is as you know as as hard as it is to understand this. In certain parts of the country I guess were still not ready for that sort of thing, but but that's my theory. What's your theories as to? Why? College athletics seems to be so far behind? I think outspoken coaches would certainly help. You know back in the next. John Thompson spoke out. As the coach of Georgetown. He was the first black coach to really do that in, college. Sports they really never was one in college football which I think kept us. behind way behind in terms of hiring practices less than ten percent. Of College football coaches, the one level still enter the F. level, rather are still African or African. American now ninety percent of whites you know with fifty four percent of our football players being African American. You know those football. Players have to be asking themselves well. My school really consider black coach here that they give them the opportunity and it doesn't have to be that. That actually happens, but they have to believe that it was an open process. You know you can still take a white guy who might be the best choice, but at least get the best people in the room, so you know you've looked at every everybody. An Dr Logic last thing only because it's A. It's a bit of breaking news here over the last twenty minutes or so that Nascar has announced that it will, it will not. The display of the confederate flag is going to be prohibited. anecdotally, at least on social media, this doesn't seem to be going over very well with many NASCAR fans, but that's just social media You gotta a quick thought for us. I know. We spend more time talking basketball, football and. Nascar is is certainly a an acquired taste in many parts of the country. But what do you think about WHAT NASCAR is announced here within the last half hour? I live forty five minutes from NASCAR headquarters in central Florida's. It's local and I can tell you that. My image of NASCAR BEFORE I got involved down here was. You know very southern, very white, very conservative and we have done more diversity training. For Card than any other professional sport. They've really taken a stand for almost two decades now that they wanNA. Make Nascar. Look like America so I'm encouraged by the move that they made today I think you know those symbols are so. Traumatic in the black community about. Bringing up memories, maybe not so much. What might have happened to them and their lifetime, but to grant grandfathers and fathers, and and members of their family in the with that confederate symbol has stood for. That's why I've made a good step in a long overdue step in doing that today. And lastly you mentioned, and you wrote in the Orlando Sentinel that you are hopeful that you really feel like like this is This is a turning point, not just in sports, but in our country you have access to too many people Kareem abdul-jabbar amongst them. And one. What is the sense that you get from conversations that you've had? You are hopeful are. Do you find that that others are equally as hopeful as you are based on everything? We've seen over the last two weeks. You Know Kareem has been talking about. he has hope and history. He has hope that things are GonNa Change But history tells them. That's really going to be hard to happen. I think it depends on your perspective You have to have a sense of what you think is happening today and I think. Green statements after that that was about ten days ago. Have Been, but then he sees that diverse. Group out there, protesting the street, speaking up taking risks of that, they might have taken before because he feels as do I that. America is really awakening to the effect of racism more than they ever have before. Dr Patrick. We appreciate it. Again at and I would encourage everybody to. Find some some of what you have written. You've written a ton of bucks. You're constantly writing for the Business Journal for ESPN DOT com a guest writing for the Orlando Sentinel. Many other places as well Nelson. Mandela is in your in your past Jesse. Jackson Kareem abdul-jabbar just to name a few really appreciate you taking the time to do this We've learned a lot. We appreciate your insight. Thank you for having me on the show? Thank you Dr Richard Lap Check again a professor who is with the University of Central Florida somebody who has not only talked to talk, but as we mentioned there walk the walk describing some of the things that he's experienced in his life as the son of Joe, lap check who maybe isn't the most famous basketball coach average as somebody who I would have known for my experiences, growing up in love and basketball around New York City because he was coach at my Alma Mater, and he was a coach of the Knicks before I was even born, and how his life has been shaped by seeing some of the things because his dad signed a black player that they hung. In effigy outside of his window in a New York suburb, he wrote about he also wrote about getting phone calls back then when you had landlines at home and you could, you could find anyone's phone number like in the phone book and the white in the is the white pages where the PEOP-. Angry racists would call the home and sometimes you think he's five or six years old. He's answered the phone and you'd hear. You'd hear the outrage and the anger and the threats, and these menacing phone calls coming in as a kid. because. Your father dared to sign a black player. It's remarkable really does I mean and it's an amazing life I mean. He was invited to South Africa for Nelson Mandela's presidential inauguration after those decades being in prison Nelson Mandela invited that. Guests that we just had Dr Richard Lap. Check doubt in South Africa to be his guests at his inauguration. I mean. Again there's a lot there. There's a lot there in this amazing life that he's had so. I know that the term expert gets tossed around right? People say oh. You must be sports. xtra sports sexpert. These are people who this is an expert. You know this is the epitome. This is the definition of what an expert is somebody who's WHO's been there? Who's written about it? Who Studies at who writes about it? Who Teaches at a movie? Yeah? Getting attacked in his office having a bunch of internal injuries, somebody took a pair of scissors and carved the N. word, and it was stomach just because he dared stand up for black athletes I mean. Wow, that's that's a life right there for from Dr Richard Lobb. Check take time. We could have done that for three hours. Maybe someday, we wealth back after this. It's going to twelve morning on and richer to the padres take with the eighth overall pick, and why this bizarre draft, maybe one of the most important it major league baseball history will tell you why tomorrow we'll see at six on extra thirteen, sixty and FM one zero three three. All right Do you not hear the music? Okay, can I. WanNa on air or you? WanNa. Talk about. Join cal crafts got news eight and the IHEART team for a very special safe celebration of heroes. Blood and food drive coming up on June sixteenth. That's next week. Eight am to eight PM Patenga. Arena Pechanga Pechanga in partnership with the American Red Cross the Jacobson Cushman foodbanks we are collecting to critical community needs blood and guess what else. Guess. Food vote which have been drastically impacted by covid nineteen. Now you're to need an appointment to donate blood, non perishable food items can be dropped off that day between eight am and eight, pm, in the parking, lot sports arena without leaving your car for and information visit CBS eight. Dot, com slash heroes. I'm predicting Kyle Casca appearance on the show sometime next week. Owns about right at least one. Yes. So! That's coming up next week now. We had a thirty dollar gift card to give away to some Brera. Mexican Food Jim Russell. Have you made your decision yet? Sorry, someone didn't just fell there. I have not made my decision no. Okay well, we're all on the edges icy. Cat in the running that's. That was maybe the best one that was that was actually the one I was I was going to do. The one where Cleo sent a text message you. Can. Win, thank me for the climate adjustment and also complained about her automatic litter cleaning box. Which I would love to hear. My cat owner hotline is open for business. How does everybody else who has a cat? How do you feel about these litter boxes? Now this isn't for Mardi. This is in Virginia I. Don't even know what it sounds like garbage disposal. Like how loud is that? You hear that it wakes you up in the middle of the night and have you thought about pretty loud? Have you thought about getting? Can you get acquired everyone to? We got the one that we got you can't. You can't retrain the cat instead thing. To do what? Go to the bathroom. The bathroom no to adapt to a different box. Oh, the cat was fine with the old box the problem was that the cat the problem was us. We didn't want to clean the litterbox. As often as we did, so we got the automatic. The self-cleaning litterbox itself cleaning. If I could command this cat to come out here and drop a deuce in the box with. This, but I can't make. I don't need to see it happen. I'm just I. Don't understand how it, so the cat does its business, and then there's a sensor in the litterbox because the litterbox is plugged in to electric. So. The cat does its business in the litterbox, and then the cat goes about its day. And then. Five minutes ten minutes. Whatever the time limit is, there's the sensor that detects that there's been activity in the litterbox and from the back of the box pushing four. There's like these teeth like you were raking the beach right and it scoops up once the urine clumps, or the turds or there, and then it picks it all up, and it puts it into a receptacle, and then all you have to do is change the receptacle every couple of days. So that's the way that works now. The the not the non self cleaning litter boxes. Boy I mean Dr Richard Logic was just on the show. This is this is a pioneer. This is somebody who is one of the great resources as it comes to race in sports, and now we're talking about. Cats show who litter boxes. But. Used to just use a scope, and you'd scoop it out and put it in a plastic bag of garbage or whatever it was, and you'd get rid of it. You get it out of the House now. It stores it in little been. Then you clean out the Ben every couple of days, so you don't have to bend over. You don't have to sit and scoop the poop yourself. But it makes noise. It's not a quiet process. So, that's the answer to your question. Thank you now. CLEO did not like this at first and every time it would happen. She sort of look and say what did. I do back there? because. She wouldn't want her that far, even if it was five ten minutes later, but when the cat does it. In the middle of the night. You know it's It's a bit jarring especially at first what what is that? But everybody. Embraer Mexican food wishes your family the best. They want you to know that they are here for you San, Diego Sombrero. Mexicans open for drive. Carry out end delivery. Get Your Sambre Mexican fix today. More at some burrow MEX- DOT COM and Jim. Will Award Somebody Thirty Dollars Gift Card coming up here before too long. What was it that we were talking about? Detects contest. Tax Contest. We're just happy to have some Brera back on board. Happy to be in a position where we can give something away, so somebody else can go out there and enjoy some borough, and before that we were talking about cal cross, the blood drive in the food. Yeah, coming next week. That's June sixteenth. Reservations Right about that all right I I want more of Dr. Retaliation. May now I feel like I? Just want more i. want to read what he's written I. Want to hear more about his life. I want to find out what motivates them. What motivates them to get through the Times where he's been physically attacked? You know what I would like to hear from criminal bar about the friendship and their life together and the impact eat one has had on the other true story here because he mentioned, he went to a high school in New York. Power Memorial, and if you're. You're a UCLA fan, or if you know anything about the history of new. York City Basketball High School basketball power. Memorial is synonymous with Lou Al Center, and as it turns out, and this is why I said I really want more because the subject of race and sports is interesting in and of itself, but I want to find out how it was that the son of. Joe Lap Jack the head coach Saint John's, you know lew alcindor. He narrowed his final list to schools. He ended up going to UCLA. You know what the gross. Yes he told me San Diego State No. It was St John's. That could have changed everything for us. Yeah could've his dad three or four hundred titles for us, so you know that's a really really big deal I know today it's the nit and is the not tournament and everybody who would who has no understanding of history of college basketball just sits and crops all over the nit, but it was a really really big deal when his dad was winning those titles for us. Way Back when. But? Yes, they they couldn't have figured that out. That Liu couldn't couldn't have stayed New, York. He couldn't stay in New York City and GonNa play hoops and Queens hit the go out for the sunshine in California. I guess what should I? Who Am I want to? Judge did the same thing. Land of milk and honey I can certainly understand. It was an outstanding op-ed from from. In the LA Times couple of weeks ago. As it sounds like according to LAPD check that he's. He softened a little bit because he's like I. Don't know that I feel that. This is a real turning point here. I've got history with this about turning points my whole life. And yet we're still. Get history, it may not. It may not be different the one thing that would. Say that. We're all hopeful, but he says the one reason why he is hopeful. Now is because the number more people are listening. Look at the different statements. Look at whether it's different. CEO's being fired or resigning statements from NASCAR statement from different owners in the League and Roger Goodell, but it's about more player speaking, speaking out, not just the black players, but the white players and we're seeing a lot of moving ambles. You almost can't keep track of all the different changes that are happening now not in sports real life. Entertainment Industry nonstop. I five and a half months is a really really long time. And you know as diverse as some of these marches have looked. Five and a half months. We'll see what it looks like. What turnout looks like November on all I'm saying is is Kareem would say history has told me a different story. Historically. This is not a group that has shown up on election day. If in fact, there's there's real change. Look what happened yesterday in Georgia, of course. Up just couldn't couldn't get through I. Know I understand all right well. We back TV listings and Jim's joke for the day. He has no competition today. He's running unopposed for the joke of the day. That's coming up next. Coming up at three o'clock today, the Reverend Al Sharpton called out. Roger Goodell said forget the apologies worrying Colin Kaepernick bath. Should the commissioner respon-. Down extra thirteen sixty foxsports SANDIEGO NFL one zero, three three. Should the Commissioner respond by the way anybody here from Jerry Jones. Nelson. Shocked, he's pretty sight. Aaron doesn't have Thomas Very introverted that. Speak. I promise you that. What I'm about to say isn't going to sit well with some of you, but just reading a tweet here from grant wall. Who has covered soccer for a really really long time? He's reporting that US. Soccer's board of Directors voted yesterday to repeal the two thousand seventeen rule, preventing players from kneeling during the National Anthem Board is expected to issue a statement. Okay. Can we all handle this. The US and men's national team in women's national team play an international competition, which is a lot different than playing. Baseball every single day NBA two three times per week nfl a couple of times. Would it really. Would it really be a big deal? If for Non International Sports Right non-olympic sports non international soccer match is. If we just said. Instead of well, what's our policy going to be about kneeling athletes if we just said? Can we live without the national anthem before every single baseball game? Can We? Can we live without it before every single football game? Can we live without it before NB EVERY NBA game, I mean is that because that's not something? That's a practice. That's uniquely American. Right what? Goes on in a lot of different places category, do you? Sports and Sports is entertainment correct doubts over the game? It's a sports entertainment. When you go to see a movie. When you go to a movie theater? You don't do the now slam. Do you do not okay so I. Guess I mean that would perhaps solve? An issue seen a lot of issues I. I don't know that I've I've ever participated again I mean it's not that you want to run away from from a bunch of kneeling ethnic SORTA. Can't we at least bring that in a into the conversation and ask why why we do that now? I know a lot of people like it. And I think it's great when you honor veterans. If you saw what went on and press boxes by the way. Everything else I that. You have to have a rule. That you have to have a rule on. Someone has to have someone forced to ask. Act during an anthem is what rubs me the wrong way I think Cam Jordan, he's a defensive end for the saints. Give interviews with Mike Silver. Saying that. If the NFL season were to start today, every single player in the League would take me during the anthem I. Mean They don't? They don't have the players standing out there for for college. Football and I mean I. Just think maybe if there's a tweak to be made I, don't because now. We're going to get to the point where kneeling definitely. A statement and standing is going to be a statement and. You know it's sort of what upset about visiting the White House. If I were running. One of these teams I would just have a policy that you just don't do it because it's gotta be interpreted as political whether you go, don't go stand there and talk with the president. Next President. What have you I almost would get to the point where I'd say hey. I'm going to do what I can to remove my players from this equation, so because then we're going to be standing and who's kneeling. And what are they saying by standing? And what are they saying by kneeling I just? on TV tonight MLB draft big hero something called big hero six eight pm on ABC, I don't know what that is. Hunt for Red October one of the rare movies. That's better than the book. Eight PM on BBC snatched eight PM. On FM, the longest yard eight PM on par Hangover, eight thirty on free form and own spotlight. Where do we go from here? Conversations with black thought leaders to answer imperative questions and give action plans to address systemic racism in a two part Special Jim. What he got on a joke. I, guys. What do you call a cow with no legs? A cow with no legs. What do you call a cow with no legs ground beef. Pretty good. Would be funnier if you open up some beers that brought over. Oh, that's a great idea. You're bathing suit. Honda's. In the house at seventy so comfortable. Anything. Cold in here. I gotta be honest. Hold. I'm kind of cold, so it's good. It's ninety one outside currently Darren. WHAT'S UP Beers? Let's go sober up by the time we're on then we'll go ahead and replay gyms joke. Where do you think? It was for those are good one ground against your. Maybe, we should do the thing now where. Crack open a beer at two thirty so that by the time Jim Rolls Out with a joke. Instantly funny. Kind of lightweight is what you're saying. Oh must hand at all. How many beers you're GonNa have in twenty minutes. To that the joke is going to be impacted, the joke is going to be impacting help. Cannons are coming up next on.

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Can't Stop Lamar Jackson? Hire an Impersonator.

ESPN Daily

21:49 min | 1 year ago

Can't Stop Lamar Jackson? Hire an Impersonator.

"It feels like those that are playing in for the first time pretty much the reaction to the same every single time. You hear these guys shower. Praise and Lamar Jackson explosive. Guy On film L. Dynamic runner and then after the game they're like dude. I had no idea we completely miscalculated. Just how dynamic of a player he is. There are some things that just can't be duplicated fingerprints snowflakes Marvin Gaye rendition of the national anthem at the nineteen eighty three NBA all star game. Now there's another thing on the list. The freakish combination of skill smarts and athleticism possessed assessed by Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson today. ESPN's Ravens reporter. Jamison Hensley breaks down the ways in which Lamar's opponents have tried need to find players who can replicate his talents as they prepare to face the NFL's deadliest weapon. I mean at times it's Wednesday January very eighth this is espn daily presented by Dell. Small Business. Jason I'm I'm doing better than Dean pees the Titans Defensive Coordinator because I do not have to game plan for Lamar Jackson all season long. James and we've been talking about how difficult it it is to stop this ravens offense. How teams are efforting to suit against him? But that process begins at the start of every week I for these. NFL teams. They tried to put a plan and they try to replicate the offense with their scout team. Can you explain why that's so difficult. Yeah Yeah it's a complicated answer for a lot of teams and it starts with that. The rains have so many different personnel groupings. They can go three wide. They can go empty backfield or they they can put in three tight ends and fullback in just muscle up against you then you also have to contend with the various motions. No no team in the. NFL runs more pre-start emotions than the Baltimore Ravens and then when the ball snapped you have to find the ball once you actually find where the ball is Kinda termine where it is going. If it is in the hands of Lamar Jackson. Well then good luck with that because he is the fastest player on this field. And if you're one on one against him he fake you out and then you become you know a highlight on sportscenter for the whole night. So yeah there's a lot of things to contend with but it really boils down with nobody can really mimic Lamar Jackson athleticism. The first part of what you described the personnel groupings. The Pre snap deception all of that. Those are things coaches are responsible for instilling their players. But the more Jackson side of it seems to me to be very difficult to prepare for. What have some teams done? Well first they kind of look at their scout team and they're like okay can their quarterback that they have on the scout team or their third quarterback on the roster. Can they mimic what Lamar Jackson or even get into into the realm of what Lamar Jackson can do. And for the most part it's no and so then they go okay. Who's the best athlete on the Scout Team? And a lot of times it could be a wide receiver. It can be a returner. You've seen teams resort to a former quarterback in the alliance of American football. They've gone onto your former college. quarterbacks run kind of the wildcat and they've even resorted to calling an ice fisherman in South Dakota wait an ice fisherman is his name is Taryn Christian and he formerly played quarterback at South Dakota state. Home whom of the Jack Rowell's quarterback keep after the banker rattle busy to the External Christian. The all time leader for South Dakota go to St doubt total offense and it's six nothing favor of the. Why did they call him in particular? Well I mean he does have speed four five at his pro day. He spent some time in training camp with the cowboys. He was quickly out of leak. He went back to Sioux Falls. But he's an avid outdoorsman store's been he likes ice fishing he likes duck hunting and then out of the blue he gets a call from Mike Tomlin just few days for the steelers had their first game. Mm Against Lamar Jackson in the Ravens back in early October it was actually in my haircut called aspect this morning. Got here about ten minutes. Greg started got changed in Got US I explain to you what they were looking for you. This week you Scout team stuff You know mobile quarterback playing the Ravens. So Lamar Mark Jackson just running around a little bit slinging things on on Scott team so far. How did he handle playing Lamar? He actually did a pretty good job. I mean they they weren't gonNA put Devlin Duck. Hodges out there so I guess they were trying to find another doctor so they eh. They went and they brought in Tehran and he kind of anticipated was going to be just a short stint that he was going to be there. Lamar Jackson for the week. The players in the locker room almost conceded that because many of referred to him as Lamar. Not Taryn Chris. So yeah he took it all in stride overall. He did a pretty good job. Because is in that game. It was The Ravens won in overtime against the steelers. But Lamar Jackson. He threw three interceptions. He did turn it on at the end to to pull out the victory but it will rank as one of Lamar's worse games of the season Games in as you're telling me about him. I'm thinking of a hunter named Brock Miller who is left-footed and told me once that he would get signed repeatedly throughout the season by NFL teams. Who are about to play the Patriots because they always have left footed punters hunters? Did that end up happening with Christian. No no he didn't get another call and after just two days after the steelers game he did get cut cut probably had thoughts of. Hey maybe he could be the Lamar standing for a lot of these teams. He did not get a call. Did Not get signed for the rest of the regular season and rate great now he got signed to the XFL and he is trying to make that league properly. Lamar's worst game of the season was the first game against the browns round where they lost. The browns coordinator Steve wilks was asked about how he was preparing for the game. And this is what he had to say. Our tax plan men who Dania Guess But the browns actually use matt got into prepare for Lamar. I don't actually think so. But I mean as everything with the Cleveland browns you cannot say definitively no but coach Freddie Kitchens. At that time I said in a press conference they used a few guys to Mimic Lamar with a couple of different guys playing Odell played him scouting quarterback. You just don't believe me. I know people with the browns thought. They weren't using Odell Beckham Junior enough but obviously they were maybe not as much as a wide receiver but they were using him in practice to Mimic Lamar Jackson. And you could tell I mean. He's an athletic guy out there making those one handed catches but I think really the talent especially the skill set would really translate to Lamar Jackson so the Ravens have played some pretty pretty good defenses with very good coaches in November. They went up against New England and of course bill. Belichick is the master of game planning. And he he had this to say about Lamar. Before the game to simulate the speed with which they execute the problem of course on another quarterback in the league like this how do you get one jamison. What can teams do win? They don't have have a single player with a skill. Set that replicates Lamar. It's funny because the best scout team quarterback that anyone could have for Lamar is actually the Ravens and that Robert Griffin the third so Knowing we did they signed him in the off season because he can run this ravens offense in case something would happen to Lamar but they also took away from other teams a guy that could probably replicate Lamar Jackson best in in in their practices. You it's almost like almost monopolized the dual threat quarterback position and you mentioned Bill Belichick. I try to ask ask him you. Who are you gonNA play Lamar Jackson in your scout team? You know. He didn't disclose who would be but obviously did not work wherever they chose because the rains. Let's put up thirty seven points against that Bill Belichick defense that a lot of people thought was going to be a very historic one at the time Coming up can the Titans actually learn anything from Amar Jackson's playoff defeat last year Espn daily we tell the stories of the world's greatest teams coach Bill Championship teams with players uniquely qualified for the roles. That's why you need indeed for Your Business. Indeed provides tools like skills tests to help candidates. Show the perfect hire for you post a job at indeed indeed dot com slash. ESPN daily and try skills tests for free that's indeed dot com slash. ESPN daily terms conditions. Exclusions apply apply as teams have resorted to desperate measures to prepare how they failed. Yeah it's funny. 'cause they do they they try their hardest to find somebody who is fast enough somebody who can also at least throw the ball a little. Oh Bet to give their defense good looks the bengals. They had a scout team wide receiver. Trenton Irwin and and he was going out to practice and they go. You know your your Lamar Jackson today and so the kind of throat Adam. A little bit and didn't really last long. He got out there he he said about three or four plays. He tried emotion one of the wide receivers to do like a jet sweep. He called for the snap too early. The snap hit the wide receiver her and they said. Okay Trenton. You're you're no longer Lamar Jackson. That's kind of precision part of it. Where the Ravens when they snapped the ball I it's they always had these guys moving and it's sometimes very close to the ball okay? You're watching the guys in motion but you're trying to locate the ball. It's very difficult difficult to do that. In Trenton Irwin found that out firsthand. They threw Andy Dalton in his place. And I'm going to guess that Andy Dalton this year it was probably the slowest of the march accent. Mimics out there. What about the bills? Didn't they have a little bit of inside information on the more they they they used Ray Ray McLeod and he has a very interesting connection and back story with Lamar Jackson. In McLeod's roommate at Clemson was Oakland. Raiders cornerback Trayvon Molin. Who is Jackson's cousin? So trying to keep it in in the family a little bit. Also McLeod's background. He ran the forty yard dash in four point five seconds. He also quarterback the read option offense in high school you saw throughout the week. The Bills Defenders Really Complement McLeod for. We're giving them a good look and it really turned out in the game. Because the bills held Lamar Jackson to forty yards rushing and that's that's his lowest output on the grounds outside of that first game against Miami when he threw five touchdowns didn't really even try to run the ball so I thought the bills defense contained Lamar Jackson at least running better than anybody else else this season. I think my favorite scout team quarterback to play Lamar. This season has been John. Wolford the rams practice squatter wake AAC forced Alan by the way. They beat Lamar Jackson and Louisville in college. Now when it was revealed that he was going to be Lamar. It was a bit derided. Here's what coach Sean. mcvay had to say. John do a great job for us and we'll see if he's got he'd found some extra speed tweet. This week I'd like to say that's unfair because I actually called the Rams preseason games and John Wolford can scoot right. He actually had an amazing amazing three cone. Time unfortunately didn't work out so well for the rams. No the ravens routed. Those rams forty five to six on Monday night and I like to call that allows Lamar's Hollywood moment you're playing in the coliseum. You see the Hollywood sign in the background. You the first player in Monday night. Football to make his debut. And throw five touchdown touchdown passes to magical. I think that was the night when everyone kind of said you know what Lamar Jackson is winning the MVP right now. Afterwards Eric. Weddell the Ram safety who used to play for the Ravens was asked about poor. John Wolford efforts on the scout team whether whether they help the defense and this is what he had to say. Well Yeah I mean. I don't know what you guys keep thinking. He ran the scout team for us. You can't emulate it are you gonNA practice it. Lamar's Mars the fastest guy on the field. I kid you not like I wouldn't let you guys go half the time. I didn't know who had the ball until they were getting through line. I had to go tackle. Comb the Rams Riesling let their defensive coordinator Wade Phillips go now Wade as you know is a legend around this league bill. Belichick is a legend. Perhaps the greatest defensive coach in. NFL history. What does it say about Lamar that those two coordinators couldn't figure out a way to stop him? Yeah I think it just shows that Lamar Jackson is just a generational talent. Winning kind came into the League. People said Oh could he be the next Michael Vic and I think early last year. And maybe we're only the season you could say. Okay Yeah you you can compare him to that. But I mean he has shattered vicks rushing rushing record he is thrown more touchdown passes than Vikas ever thrown in a CD. So more passing yards. I don't think that comparison even holds up right now now to have a player who can run and throw the ball like Lamar Jackson. That's just something that the league just hasn't seen you mentioned that during being in the style in the week preparing coaches have to get their defense is ready for all of the various right but watching the Mar- play sometimes you see linebackers. Packers make the correct read and he's still beats them. It's like a choose your own adventure book where every option leads to a horrible death. There's no right answer her. It is and and that's the thing I mean. I think turn Matthew said earlier this year when you go against Lamar Jackson. It's almost you have to be a little a bit more patient and it's hard to do that in the open field against him but you don't want to go and attack because he always has a counter move. It's almost almost. You have to wait for him to make his move and then react to him so this weekend in the divisional round the Ravens will be hosting the Tennessee. NFC Titans Lamar's second postseason game. Jamieson you remember. The first one didn't go so well Baltimore lost to the chargers who notoriously Ashley defended the Ravens with seven defensive backs on the field mostly because the chargers were so banged up and until the fourth quarter. The Ravens Office. Really couldn't get much going. Do you think the titans might try to replicate that. In some way I think it will be a little difficult and the reason. I say that it is one big difference from last year's playoff game to this year is Lamar Jackson. He's just become a better passer. And in that chargers game he completed just three passes asses in the first three quarters at one point in the second half he had zero point zero passer rating. He's obviously improved. In that regard the other aspect they got to remember is is that the rains added Mark Ingram agents. He was their their number one target in free agency. They that's the guy that they said. Entering this off season. They wanted and the reason they wanted him so badly was because he brings just that tenacious physical aspect to the running game in between the tackles. And if you try to put seven seven defensive backs with Mark Ingram runs. He's GonNa run all over you so I would be very hesitant for any defense to use that strategy against Moore Jackson Timpson. You've watched as much. Lamar Jackson has anyone at this point. What would you do? It's because it's an impossible question clearly but what would you do to stop him. The only way you can beat. Lamar Jackson Jackson is to get a lead warning. And I don't know if that really answers the question but you need to jump out and get a lead and that is very difficult to do because the ravens are so good good in scripting their plays and that's why they have outscore teams by so much in that first word they rarely rarely trail in that first first half but if a team can jump out even to scores or seventeen to nothing what you do. Is You force Lamar Jackson into become more predictable. And then in your mind you're going. Okay Lamar Jackson is going to have to throw the ball and you kinda take away the running element a little bit but you also have to score against the Ravens Defense and the rains defense number four in the league their top scorer against as well so everybody guys you heard it here first. I the way to stop the mark. Jackson is to outscore. Thanks Jason Thank you and coming up with the latest. NFL coaching hires. Tell us about the state of diversity leak New Year new budgets. Every small business has unique needs when you partner with a Dell Small Business Technology advisor you get real time tailored advice you'll even give you a free audit on your servers and storage devices to develop a custom solution solution to help improve your company's productivity plus right now upgrade to windows ten and get up to forty five percent off select business computers with Intel core processors officers to speak with Adele adviser call eight seven seven by Dell. That's eight seven seven by Dell. Here's here's another story. I want you to know on Tuesday to. NFL teams announced that they had picked their next head coach. The Carolina Panthers Selected Baylor head coach map rule and the giants who reportedly also going after roll with Patriots Wide Receiver coach. Joe Judge a scoop. All fans process the news and and in some cases I'm guessing learned that judge exists a number of analysts for players and fans pointed out that after these latest hires. Just three of the leaks. Six head coaches Pittsburgh's Mike Tomlin allies Anthony Lynn. In Miami's Brian Flores are black as opposed to seventy percent of the players. Now there's at least one spot open. The Cleveland. Browns haven't announced replacement for fired head coach Freddie Kitchens yet but it's evident that after the ranks of non white head coaches grew for years. Here's hitting eight not too long ago. They've since rapidly declined this fall. Richard Lap tick the director of the Institute for Diversity and Ethics in sport. Publishes Publishes Annual Report on the issue and gave the NFL its lowest grade since he started collecting data fifteen years ago. Now I imagine there are people who are hearing this and saying to themselves teams should be allowed to hire the best possible candidates and I absolutely agree but I'm not sure that's happening four years ago. Oh I wrote about a study from professors at Georgetown. George Washington emery in Iowa state who found that white position coaches in assistance or more than twice as likely to be promoted to coordinator roles regardless of their background given that many of the coaches promoted since then have a market lack of experience rule for example spent very little time in the NFL and judge was most recently a position coach. I would be surprised if that's changed now. This doesn't mean. NFL teams are actively seeking seeking to discriminate against qualified candidates. The reasons for these things as is the case in fields outside of sports are insidiously complex in football all the roots of the problem can be traced to college where the numbers aren't much better or even lowest levels of the sport networks also play a role and so do trends. NFL teams. These are more likely than ever to hire offensive minded head coaches and there were just two black offensive coordinators. This season one of him the chiefs Eric. The enemy would seem to merit narrative closer. Look from Cleveland. But just because the factors behind the absence of diversity at the league's highest levels can be difficult to untangle doesn't mean we shouldn't try and above all acknowledged that the gap exists and this has been E._s._p._N.. Daily I'll talk to you tomorrow.

Lamar Jackson Jackson Lamar Ravens Lamar Jackson NFL Lamar Mark Jackson League Bill Belichick Titans Baltimore Ravens Jackson Browns ESPN Espn Freddie Kitchens Mike Tomlin Jamison Hensley Moore Jackson Timpson Dell John Wolford
Hour 3 - USL coming back, NFL issues moving forward, TV listings and a joke from Jim

The Darren Smith Show

40:57 min | 8 months ago

Hour 3 - USL coming back, NFL issues moving forward, TV listings and a joke from Jim

"Radio. Wants more. Now, here's Darren. On xtra thirteen sixty. Hour number three, it is actually thirteen, Sixty FM one, zero, three, three, and the I heart radio APP. Somebody via the text line, said Hey. We can appreciate you singing the Sombrero Song but don't quit your day job. What if I started singing the Iheartradio? Because that happens also. Does that change your mind Texter who then said? But if you're looking for a second GIG, you can come over and clean our house. Since? He and his wife apparently hate to clean. I would dominate you for that. To somebody else's house money. Listen I. Don't want to tell you that I enjoy cleaning my own toil. Actually think you do, but it's a necessary evil. I think you do I will tell you that will never go and clean. Somebody else's toilet. I'm sorry that's just not going to happen. I mean it's it's. Its own experience when you're dealing with your own toilet. But somebody else's toilet. Forget it. For me. I'm just saying not your toilet. Your wife's not Jim. No I will not do her toilet either. Really I will not. Okay, we have separate bathrooms were responsible for our own domain. I'm responsible for mind. She's responsible for hers. That's very interesting on just saying I I will personally I do I I think that some of it is his pride of ownership and wanted to keep a clean place. Now I could see that little piece of paper right there. It's irritating me. I could see a couple of things on the kitchen counter sort of Europe me, but I swear I'm not ocd about this, okay Danny. Tanner So I I. Would respectfully decline that opportunity for a second GIG. But. I. Do I do like? Putting in a little bit of work. And keep it a house clean. When been help you out I? Think it's a very reward. Well listen. I. Don't remember that in our vows. I saw and heard for better or for worse and debt, the apart and sickness, and in health, and all that sort of stuff. I didn't hear anything about clean my toilet. So. You'll forgive me if I miss that I. Think we purposefully admitted that part from our vows? We're getting set to talk to Landon Donovan. Landon Donovan is the manager of our. United Soccer League club, you might remember them. San Diego loyal with played one time one game one. They're thinking that a regular season match away at Tacoma, that was played behind closed doors, seeing about the conversation when they had the first game, what was happening because I was in Las Vegas, which just reopened I was Las Vegas, for the Mountain West Conference Tournament Covering San Diego State and you knew the championship game was going to be what Saturday at four o'clock in the thousand try and hit both games, but yeah, A. Lots changed since then. Yeah, that was a terrific Saturday. I remember thinking how optimistic I was on that Saturday. Cuts San Diego State as you mentioned was playing. In the mountain, West Conference title Game Yes. And we went. We stopped by about point on our way to go to USD. and. Sat and so many people who are on their way to go watch the opening match and the inaugural night. Opening Night Esti loyal were there including the owner of the President of the League? There were many people that stop by ballast point, and they just wanted to watch what it was. It was happening in the basketball game, and then unfortunately Senator State lost, and we went up the road and loyal ended up in a one one draw against the Las Vegas. Lights, we're all his team. That's right and I remember coming on the Monday and be like well. That could have been a lot better. Could've been a lot better in the sense. That loyal could've wanted to opening match. Still picked up a point. And it could have been better. The take could've won the mountain west. Conference title, but you know for an afternoon. It felt like we had we had a real heartbeat a full week in San. We had a full week and we had some baseball. We had a little bit spring training going on whatever was happening that weekend in Peoria, it was nice to have that we were getting set for an AA tournament, which was gonNA come up in a couple of weeks and loyal was was playing its very first match ever right? I mean so. There was a lot happening on that Saturday which feels like another lifetime. It does I mean it just it feels. Like a completely different lifetime. But I. Remember like thinking. There's going to be a fun couple of months going to be a fun couple of months with pro soccer. It's going to be a fun ride with SDS you hoops. And then padres will be here. We'll have all of this stuff happened. We'll have the baseball draft and won't be exactly like the old days sports talk radio. Then, we all went into our homes for twelve months for twelve weeks three months. And here we are, and now it looks like the League will come back in some capacity. It looks like they're getting said. July eleventh is the tentative date. I, don't know where it is that we will next Sandiego loyal! If they will continue to play on the campus of USD, or if there's something about playing on campus. That might not work for the university or the Club I. Guess for that matter, but. They are anticipating a return coming up on July eleventh which here and given that they have a local television contract given that all the matches are to appear away on ESPN plus that. We'll have at least a little bit of access for them. and we'll see I don't know what that League is planning on doing. Some of these other leagues with regards to piping in crowd, noise or putting in cardboard cutouts of fans. ETC, so I I don't know what it is that everybody likes doesn't like about having to adjust to nobody being there in the seats, but. I think you know what are the ideas that of like best is from one of these German soccer clubs Munchengladbach, which is the one that sold all the cardboard cutout? For Twenty Bucks that would go to a local charity I thought that was really a good idea and listen we in radio. We other else. We rip each other off all the time some more than others. But. yeah, if they wanted to take an idea like that and turn it into a fundraising event for Santa loyal maybe to Radi Children's hospital since that's one of their shirt sponsors. They wear that on their sleeve. I think that would be a really really good idea so. I'll let them manage their own business there successful without my contributions, but yeah, hopefully at some point, we'll get that back. If you missed it earlier in the show. We had Steve Sh the NFL network. Join us about an hour ago. Marty spent her day the early portion of her day on a zoom press conference conference. Call whatever you WANNA. Call it. With padres general manager AJ prowlers since the draft is tomorrow, it starts at four PM. On ESPN. And on network S. I'm I'll be met. Network must be like Oh my goodness. Thank God. We've got a little bit of live content. Because who's been flipping over to MLB network every once in a while. They'll give you like a Tony Gwynn Day. Or they'll show you an old padre game from padres past eight eighty four seasons. But I'd be lying if I said I spent much time on on MLB network. Other than rare. Check, INS here or there or flipping through channels to see what it is, but to have something that that that is live. I'm sure there's probably motivational. But also had a chance to talk with AJ prowler. Just about where the where does he think? What level of optimism does he have about a regular season about any sort of season coming up then? This is a pretty measured approach I. Think one thing about prowler. I think prowler gets media more than. We think. More than he would be given credit for really 'cause I've seen, and we've talked and we joked a little bit last week. I told the story about when morty tried to have prowler sweet. Talk me into letting Mardi, stay in spring. Training said if I thought you would have said something anywhere remotely interesting. I would've let her stay. And he said Yeah. That's probably a good call. But. Frustrating. He doesn't like. I. Don't think he ever really wants to get quoted. Does that make sense? I don't. Value in getting quoted like he knows he's got to talk to the headline quote. It doesn't want to give you take this and run with it. Okay now again. He quote he was asked today by Morty. Whether or not how he's feeling, what was the exact question? Just whether whether or not his what was the word used? If it just feels different, revving up for this draft? When we. There's so many questions regarding the minor leaguers their lack of a season where they're gonNA go. And not knowing if you're have a baseball season, do you think there will be a baseball season? And here's what Aj had to say Mardi again. Complete session. You can find it at some point at sports dot com. Follow Mardi Mardi Caz well, and she'll tweet it out, and here's what what prowler had to say, regarding the idea of a season coming up. In terms of you know in terms of. What to expect, honestly, I just think. Every everybody involved. You know throughout game they get rave loves. The game wants to see the game back I think. More and more the appreciation for entertainment in the country and sports entertainment. No seeing seeing is back on the field competing. I think that's that's huge. I know you know Commissioner's Office the Union. There's a lot of town to people there. I think you know they're going to do everything. They can hear the game back on the field but honestly like from from our Sampoerna baseball operations. It's just like a waiting game right now. Just kind of like you know waiting to see how things play out and then you know getting what the new rules are going to be the what the schedule looks like. Farrah's myself the front office. Jason where the coaching staff. Just really focused on. Don't speculate United Enough people are out there in the media trying to speculate what the season's GonNa look like what the rules are. I think for us. It's just try to try to make sure that we're prepared for whatever the next steps you're going to be, and we've tried to stay in contact with all of our players to make sure that they're prepared as they can. For you know hopefully some type of second half baseball but honestly to get into speculation about percentage of the odds were playing x number of games. Heading from from our standpoint that it has not been my focus and kind of leave it to the people who that's their job and. Hopefully hopefully play baseball here at some point soon and. Season alright ago. Did you. Ask Him for a percentage. Did you say hey, what are you think like? What are the percentages that you think we get back out there on the field? I didn't and I'm. I'm just thinking now that perhaps probably you have to assume this question is coming right because I. Don't know that we I don't know that prowler has had I don't think he has. About it I don't think he's had A. Press conference with the Sandiego media as a whole. He's done interviews here and there. I'm sure with Dennis Lynn or or Kevin, but I don't think he's had a press conference like this. Since they? Ended Sprint training. In was it was march February when whenever that date was. This has been has been the first access we've had to ask about is going to happen. What do you think's going to happen? So I'm just wondering? I'm guessing he was. Ready for that question by the way we talked a little bit about hacksaw was on and mentioned. Hacksaw big bookshelf behind him. Those of you that have yet to see video. I don't know if you're allowed to put video or not. Yes. That shortly prowler. Pretty much exactly what would expect right in the background, and when I say exactly what you would expect in the background. Let me just describe the background, Hey! There's a whitewall. Okay. And that's it. That's it. That's the extent of what was willing to share with people now maybe chains positions. Maybe he went and found a different seat on guessing this was at his house. I'm GONNA guess that. This was at his house I would guess so, but this is sort of the first glimpse that any of us have had looking. Into, the world of AJ prowler and it's pretty much exactly what I would've expected here in. There's just a white wall and a wooden door in the background. To Denny's right when the zoom conference was over, I would love to know if you hear purposely picked out based on his own answer, there based on the fact that this I think is an effort for him to like. Hey, we're not gonNA. Say Anything. We're not gonNA give any percentages. We're not here to make any headlines. That's not what is all about. I'm here to do a wonderful job, and he does a masterful job of saint nothing he's very. He's very very good at it very private. He's in a good job and. To give nothing in this access that you have now into my house, even if he. Felt! Even this is how you think this is by design. Yes. I do. Because again like he coulda done and don't tell me you don't think about this sort of stuff. Would point out. It looks like he just rolled out of the sack, but he's got a pair of sunglasses that are sort of messing up the hair, just a little bit. He's wearing the sunglasses on top of his head. So, That he's. He's showing you exactly what it is that he wants to show you. You think he just. He was just surfing and came right in from the ocean. Though surf he does I. Did not know that does color serfs he does. How did we not know this? I really have no idea I had I had no idea. Do you think he's gotten a haircut? Since. They down that that that appears to be. Yes. Yes I would guess that on the twitter here. We have rescue cozy. You Sixty two. Hey, guys, remember the fans apathy after baseball's return in nineteen, ninety five. It was so bad he resorted steroids homerun Derby to win us back. Arguing over money here is driving us. They're interesting. Point from the perspective of. We remember what happened, remember when we talked about ninety eight and ninety eight saved baseball, ninety s broad baseball back four strike right? Yeah you'd wonder if anybody there has any recollections of that I realized it was a generation ago. In a lot of these owners of turnover, a lot of players obviously have moved on their onto other stuff, but it is a cautionary tale about what had to happen now. I. Don't know that that. In the final analysis, how bad was that for baseball the whole steroid era? It brought people back at it. Really turn people off once. We found out exactly what was happening. I'm not sure I'm not sure about that. But I do think that the bigger risk for baseball is. As. Jared diamond pointed out. You could have this all to yourself, yeah! And even if you don't really like baseball. It would have been the only thing that was happening, right? Not that that should be been your sole motivation, but it certainly was was a benefit. There's no doubt about it like that was a benefit to getting back out there and getting on the field. Didn't happen now. You'RE GONNA have to compete with the other sports that were not used to watching in the summer months the curiosity factor with the NBA and also to play playoff mode, a different level of star power, and you go in the playoffs, and then right around the corner from that will be college football, I think, and without question the NFL plus there's also this you're talking about the car. And the US Open there's bill everything is going to. To be happening, we still have the argument. What's the better sports? The sport month of the calendar is it April or is it march when you have like actually March you have march. Madness your baseball about to start draft ahead, or is it going to be like October where you have the world series and yeah, the NFL's underway. You're the good teams bad teams and you have the NBA get ready to start now it's going to be. August. where? You're competing with everything that point well not only that and yes. Distaste, because It has been a grind Yousof from the beginning that the NBA had a plan they identified. This is what's going to happen you had to parties at wanted to go ahead and play, and they're gonna go ahead and move forward, and then you found out how it was going to happen. How are they going to implement the bubble and execute and with baseball? It's been dubious it's been. The players laughing at the was a bubble in the Florida bubble. Then plan on the teams in Texas. It's been a mess and it's been acrimonious from the start that to me has been the one sport that has had the biggest most vocal problems, but again as ends. You Brandt pointed out on your show last week. It hasn't really been over the health precautions or the pandemic. It's been about the money. And that ultimately is going to be the turnoff for the NBA downs resolved. Love, go now. The big questions facing the NBA is the bobble and health factor and the number of tests that the orange. County in Florida is that we're Walt Disney. World is where they'd played wall the facility. There's been an uprise now. Uptick in the level of a positive cova testing the biggest concerns with the NBA is the spike, and can they stay healthy, and can they expect the personnel? The hotel personnel to be in that same bubble. It's about the pandemic with baseball. The sole focus seems to be about the dollar so baseball, but baseball right everything you said is right. But there's another problem that baseball's facing also. In that. You won't be able to go to games. In most of the baseball cities, right? But maybe Texas spot, okay, but we are now allowed more and more. To get out of our houses. You know what I'm saying, so. It's not only that you're competing. When people are in their homes watching television, right, you're competing with the NFL. Excuse me the NBA. Major league soccer NHL before long. It will be the NFL so not only do now. Do you have to compete with those leagues? But you also have to compete with the country for the most part that's been locked in their houses for three months. That now has an opportunity to get out and do anything. Just go for a bike ride. Go to a restaurant. Go get a haircut for the first time in months. You know what I'm saying like. It's not just that you you know. It's already diluted television product that you're now out there. Sort in searching for, but since people for the most part can cooped up at home can't go to games. They can't don't want to stay inside and watch your games anyway. Kids aren't going to be in school. They're not gonNA want to sit in their houses any longer. People get out. Of going to a baseball game, a padres game any ballpark is being there and walking around and the feel of it, and the sound of it, and all of that the game in itself, not always the most entertaining thing. It's the whole element of being there. It's it's. It's different to your point Darren. Summertime School is out. For I know and Peterman and kids. They haven't able to see their friends and do this and go play playground now. The beaches are just reopening. All these things we took for granted are now coming back in full force, and if baseball comes back. Right you're competing with not just sports. You're competing with everyday life. At least you could build a little bit attraction if you could have figured it out and you know you could have the market mostly to yourself now again I think some of this is easier said than done. And I think that the approach from the sport should have been from the jump. It should have been about the pandemic, but they they let that Opportunity Pass. It's unfortunate for them, but know they. They've made their beds now. Now. The Lion we'll be back tweets now we have sat tweets and that's where it is because again. It's I. Don't think it's going to be as easy to keep a television audience once. Everybody starts realizing that they can get outside a little bit more. But you could have at least built up a little bit attraction over the last couple of weeks. If you just you know if you just got the jump on everybody back after this. Family committed Wednesday on Kosta in Richards our first giveaway in months and we're giving it to you. We get started bright early six am, and I shouldn't thirteen sixty and FM. One of three three. All. Right Santa Go is hearing for the most part to restrictions on business operations, gatherings, etc, area restaurants still allowed to offer takeout and delivery more and more opening. If you WANNA list, if you're not ready to get back into a restaurant yet, go to help SD DOT COM for a frequently updated list of all the Santa Eateries who offer takeout and delivery. That's I. Help St Dot Com thank you San. Diego I caught this earlier today. The Way Jim who is the winner of the Obrero Mexican food giveaway thirty dollars on a gift card. Still working on Darren. Okay, so in other words Jim hasn't paid any attention. Figure this out, and he will contact you at some point between now and the end of his workday I did see earlier that an idea that we had spoken about and I was really happy to see this. It's being put into place in little Italy, little Italy on India Street this weekend. dining out on the street, they will close some of India's Streeton for outdoor space for restaurants. If you know anything about the little Italy area, you know it's perfect, but they will be the first neighborhood to put a new statewide initiative in practice temporarily, letting restaurants increase the availability of their footprint by expanding an outdoor space. Now this is going to happen on India street from West ash to West Grape and West beach. There's a bunch of streets here. Just look for a map, but it's to be closed to all but emergency traffic from five PM UNTIL TEN PM a couple of different areas, around little Italy, fifteen eateries and little. have signed up to participate or trying to track somebody down to talk about tonight Kogo dinnertime five PM until ten PM this Saturday. So it just says here Saturday from five until ten o'clock I don't know if you need a reservation at some of these spots. I would guess that you probably do. But this Saturday June? Thirteenth will mark the first run of streetside dining India street from west. Ask to West Grape and west. Beach West, Cedar West Date and West I read between Kettner and Columbia streets, so there's a lot there as I said I, don't I'm not even clear what it is that I'm saying. It's like I'm reading a Jeff Passan tweet, but they'll be closed to emergency traffic from five PM until ten o'clock, so that starts this weekend. Little Italy, congratulations, I think it's got to be a homerun idea, and what this means is that they're going to have sections of India, street in front of. Of the restaurants that will have sidewalk tables, cafes open air seating. Things along those lines bring a bar outside high tops, regular tables outdoor spaces. Things like that, so this is a big moment. Yeah, it's huge and little Italy's bomb anyway so literally, so it's just it's perfect for this so if you were wondering about an opportunity to go out, sounds like Saturday little, Italy will be your first opportunity. We had the director of the city developmental services on Kogo the other night, and we I didn't I wasn't campaigning. Strictly for my neighborhood I just saw what parts of town would you see something like this happening? She is part of city government. Her name is elise locally and she said. She said this part of town. Literally she brought up thirtieth streep imperfect area except there's so much construction going on I mean we must done. We're never going to study. A lot an a lock goes into this mass transit. You have to change bus routes often times. Things like that and I've heard that. There's a local business that that didn't WanNa do it really even though it's not open this business on the weekends. I don't know that it's a done deal, but people here are sort of pessimistic on the thirtieth. Street spackle maybe Italy little Italy is like the leader, I and you kind of go. mention your old neighborhood of Pacific. Garnet. She said Garner. Idea because you. You have some of the parking you Gordon, it's slanted. Why not get rid of eliminate some of those spots and turn that into like a dining area? Have it on the sidewalk I think it's a great idea. Well, those places like had been proactive, and they have put like an outdoor seating. Just route completely redone the area in the back by the alley, so people taking advantage of the alleyways to put tables and lights up. It's been great. update by the way air conditioning is on, it is on. Because like right on cue. It's somehow it's. It's getting warmer. It's when from ninety to ninety degrees outside so daring. That air fills phenomenal. Techs after the ninety four baseball strike found out. I didn't really care about these phone. Be should be careful that more people don't realize the same thing now. I think that human beings are sort of conditioned to live stuff. Yeah, I'll tell you tempt them to live without things. Don't be surprised when they learn to live without. It's going to be interesting. What happens just just within these past couple of months with no sports? Even when sports does come, it does come back. There might be a good segment of people that are perfectly fine without it, and they found different distractions. I think of the things that you've gotten used to not doing not having your hot yoga. And Jim Russell with his movie theaters, people adapt and in this situation. We've been forced to adapt, but there's been a lot of good things, a lot of good things happening I. Mean Ev return to my job six nine number. Hey, Marty, hot guy or hot quote from Aj prowler. She's takes sixty nine number. Darren didn't like the cleaning master idea. I was just trying to get somebody to clean my toilet. Now there was a text message that we said we were going to revisit here and I'm trying to see which one. It was I believe it was. Let's not forget the capital also world famous pig socks same week. That wasn't that, wasn't it? Okay. Can you please address the diversity problem being addressed in the NFL coaching, but not in the locker room over seventy percent is African American. It seems very suspect. Yeah I. Don't I think that this is what you would call a false equivalency here? I mean it's not like a NFL locker rooms. That to me. Outside of the quarterback position where there has been a reluctance. To have black quarterbacks in this league historically, yes. I look at it as America crecy I I. Mean I think that whoever can do the job for the players? Who's going to do the job? The problem though is is you're answering your own question here to a certain extent because what you're saying is you have a League that seventy percent? But. Those numbers don't add up when it comes to coaching and I think what you're pointing out is is exactly what questions have been raised. Why is it that? You have to incentivize teams at this point, and you have to have policies in place just to interview black candidates. What what is it about this league that you have to do that sort of stuff? Because if you're saying that you've had all these players, you know that seventy percent of your league is black, we'll. Why is it then and I never understood this about the NFL college I'm not justifying it. I'm just explaining. That you know college, oftentimes the face of football program. Is the coach. And, unfortunately, some of these universities aren't comfortable with the face of a college football program being black person okay. That's unfortunate because those guys. They're they're the players cycle around they cycle through all the time, but the coaches stay. The players move on. And then you're asking coaches to fund raise, and we know some of the demographics of the places we know how some of these areas of the country were college football. Maybe a little bit more popular than it is in other places. We know SEC network. Yeah, I mean. Like the most SEC sec school ever is Clemson so like you start to think about you ask those guys to go out to fundraise to go play golf with boosters to be available to do that sort of stuff, and you could sorta again I'm not justifying just explaining the way it's been explained to me about college football, which you know, just as sad think about that. It's sad that people still to this day. Feel a bit uncomfortable having a black head coach since they represent for the most part your university right. I mean that's. Is that not college football on a nutshell but? In the pros it's it's player. It's player Driven League gets Patrick Mahomes for as much as we want to say about Bill Bell Belichick I mean you know Brady, Gronk, like you know they were faces of the organization, but that's where it's disproportionate, and that's what people are pointing out. How is it possible that you have seventy percent of your workforce? And you don't even come close to that when it comes to the coaching ranks. That's exactly it. I mean that's that's. That's the answer to your. Impacted the quarterback position. You're seeing some growth the greatest. The most important in the player in the League right now might be Patrick. mahomes seriously. You think about that, but you've had. You've had growth of the position, but nothing at a head coach. Anthony, Lynn. Brian Flores FORGETTING SOMEBODY TOM ON. Mike Tomlin Pittsburgh Yeah. The point like seventy percent of this league looks a certain way, and that's not reflective in the way that the coaching staffs are bill, and it's sort of mystery as to why opportunities aren't giving at the same rate as they are for the players, but I do really I do not to suggest that there's absolutely positively no racism. In. Roster, building. I wouldn't make that claim. But I do believe it's mostly meritocracy, and if that's the way it shakes out then that's the way out you know what I'm saying. It's just that we feel like unquote qualified unqualified. People are being given opportunities to qualified. People are not being given in the NFL. And that's that's the rub in this situation because that doesn't make any sense that you only have cal Shanahan, said it this week. And talk about like an interesting person to say such things set of Mike Shanahan going out of his way to suggest to you that that they're they're. It's it's wrong. It's just backwards that there's. So. Infrequent Diversity Amongst coaching ranks. So. Yeah, I mean again. I I hope that makes a little bit of sense, but that's exactly what it is. The People are pointing, Alec what. What's the deal here? How is it that you could have? I mean where most of the candidates come from for the most part a lot of them come from the workforce. Up from the workforce, not that they have to be star players. Will. Why isn't happening here? You know the NBA US have such problems. If you look at. And I. Think part of it also is when you truly look and break it down with the League's. Shod, Khan. And the Gula. Is that how you say at the Buffalo Bills? Yes, the goal is to go through something like the hockey team. That's about it. Everybody else is. Pretty much. Cut from the same cloth in that league. NBA as a little bit better. NBA's a little bit better in that. You have Jordan owner of the box and some of the other teams I. Think there's you know three or four minority owners yeah. Baseball is I mean baseball's got already Marino. And that's it. So. I think that that's all relevant a good i. mean I think that that's? Part of the good conversations that we can have coming from all of this as it relates the sports coming up on tomorrow, show we are going to be speaking with Richard Lap Chick. Yes. We'll tell you a little bit about him and why? He's coming on the show when we come back on. Him coming up Wednesday on Kosta in Richards, our I give away in months, and we're giving it to you. We get started. Brighton, early six am an extra thirteen, sixty and FM, one zero three. All right. The doorbell just rang here at the wine cave as we are wrapping up show number fifty five tomorrow show number fifty six. Now Jim did I. Say fifty six when I was doing. My promos did I. Say Fifty Five. I'll go back out to go back and check. It can feel free to edit that out looks like some wine just got delivered highs. Marty's carrying a box of wine in the house one or two things, both which will be expected delivered this week. Wine and Pants not pants. What now what? Do the. Shirts. Suffered you. To you. What's going on the? Great One. SMART. Not. Now they struggling. A little awkward. I A little walker. Okay I would say I don't think you're lifting. You. You might be looking at a back injury at some people talking about. You live with your legs not with your back I did I don't think so. Those were my legs. You're SORTA. Not An horse pose what? I can't wait to get back into my dirty filthy truck when this show is over today, drills in the south now doesn't that make sure wants to turn off the fan? We turn on the air conditioning. 'cause I don't WanNA double up on the electric, Bill trumped-up Chop. Chop. Snap your fingers at me off. Turn the lights off. Air conditionings more. Do you people want on the? Kids the public pressure. Landon shined US You could have sat here sweating and it's only because we got mocked on twitter. John Shaffer texted. Again, it's like an amazing thing about college football, too it it really is. It's a flaw in a lot of it is just because of geography. Fundamental flaws in something like like the NFL. But. There are. Geographic flaws when it comes to. Some of these college football programs you remember it was silvester slide croom, who became the first black head coach in the sec in two thousand four. For the history that that's league, two thousand four Landon Donovan shined us. He claims that he's going to be available tomorrow. We'll sixty Marlboro. TV listings here on Tuesday night. Waiting to exhale six PM on, bet. Keanu seven PM on fx, two mild-mannered cousin search for their beloved pet kitten after the feline is taken during a home burglary. Now here I was thinking that this show was about Kiana roofs. The wool I'd like to show about canneries, or would you idea what he's great him the wolf of Wall Street, seven PM on Fx. I will tell you I really think that's a show. That needs to be watched unedited. For sure I really do like wedding crashers. I mean I'm sorry like the Hangover Yes What is up with your fought over there don't know. beetlejuice eight Oh seven PM. Notices eight. Oh, seven am. Which is? We're going to move onto the next dirty grandpa eight PM on par. Gladiator eight thirty PM on. BBC Send Things I. Hate about you nine PM on free form. That's a movie that I like I will tell you that that What do you call it your secret? You're guilty pleasure. That's a that's a guilty pleasure movie for me good movie. Ten things about. WHO's in it? Jim. Isn't that the Matthew mcconaughey one. No doubt wrong then now. Ten things I hate about you is. Who Played Joker Oh yes, okay not. Not Walking Phoenix Heath Ledger. Yes Dan, what is her name? Brunette. Forget it then, but I I dig her two. Jewish boys at nine PM on Flex West. This show is run out of gas like much like mortgage truck. boys in the hood nine PM on flicks West. I don't know I I can't remember her name. Julia stiles Julius. Okay. She wants to go off to college. She wants to go to this liberal arts school in new. York in Bronxville New York by the way where the commissioner of the national football. Lives, which is Sarah Lawrence College, but yes ten things I hate about you. It was in Seattle or the Seattle area scheme. Wrong I haven't seen this movie. Yeah, I I dig that movie I like. Julie she she gets a little intoxicated at a party and does dance on a and it makes the whole movie where we're worth your while okay. And then boys hood nine pm on Flicks, West, the tale of three teens, growing up in a tough neighborhood, one lives sports and other for crime, and the last learns from his father about the strength of character and being responsible terrific movie love that movie as well I Jimmy. Ready wrapping up the show. There's some pressure. Really after yesterday's amazing joke. After the joke last hour on the AIG. Yes, joke, good okay. What are you guys? Call a witch who lives in the desert. A, Sandwich You're welcome now. Okay. Are you on a different delay than the rest of not like I okay I felt compelled because desert. There's a lot of sand. But I am telling you that I felt pressure and compelled to laugh because you put you played the sound, the sound laughter sound immediately and so you found it funny. You play the sound and I didn't really have time to go ahead and and react okay. Why don't eggs tell jokes? They crack each other up. that. Better listen. I do that wasn't bad. That was not terrible by Jim Great effort, but I think the joke was funnier. You. Get it the CROCK each other up cracking egg. Egg Get it. He's cracking egg very funny. I'm going to give it the gym. So we got split decision here Marty. He's GonNa. Give it. To our texter. Number Jim that you pick a winner yet or are we just GonNa? No I did pick a winner. He takes it in that. Marty's truck gave everyone Cova, not the other way around. So disagree my truck is clean. It's very clean. I take great pride in my truck. I do I really do loose? CANNONS ARE COMING UP NEXT FAG at show number fifty six from the wine insulted. That's tomorrow on Xtra.

baseball League NFL football Jim Marty San Diego NBA Darren Landon Donovan AJ prowlers padres Italy soccer USD. US twitter SEC San
Hour 3 - Mark Median on concerns with NBA returning, more on MLB being dumb and TV listings with a joke from Jim

The Darren Smith Show

35:54 min | 8 months ago

Hour 3 - Mark Median on concerns with NBA returning, more on MLB being dumb and TV listings with a joke from Jim

"Earlier on the Darren Smith Show. this approaching baseball management approach where you're fighting for every little bit of advantage in every bit a little bit of efficiency while ignoring the big picture I think that's infected, Major League Baseball, and these negotiations, and they've lost sight big picture from thirty thousand feet about what's going on in the sport and because of that reason, these talks are not happening. The the House baseball is burning, and you keep waiting for somebody to grab a hose. Welcome to that Darren Smith Show. This is the one that brings us back soon. Am Radio Rain? Who wants more? Now here's Darren On xtra thirteen sixty. Hour, number, three, extra, thirteen, sixty, FM one, zero, three, three, and the iheartradio APP just to recap what it was that Jim mentioned. They're in the top of the hour update, and before we say hello to mark Medina National NBA reporter for USA Today Jeff Passan ESPN. Who We referenced early on in the show buster only whose voice you just heard if you're just jumping on board. Passing, rights major league. Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred. TOLD ESPN on Monday that he's quote. Not Confident that there's GonNa be Twenty Twenty baseball season in that quote. As long as there's no dialogue with the players association that the real risk is gonNA continue. This is going to be a special on ESPN. A little later on tonight with Mike Greenberg. It's called the return of sports. Where're it sounds like a lot of the League commissioners are going to engage in some sort of virtual roundtable or of some sorts, and now says been pre produced obviously, and some of the quotes from Rob Manfred of Major League baseball are starting to make the rounds. Let's say a Lotta Mark. Medina covers the National Basketball Association for USA Today. Look forward to him. Analyzing whatever it is that Adam Silver GonNA. Say coming up on this special on I'm sure there will be something interesting from the Commissioner of the NBA Mark Darren. How are you? Dan Good to speak with your I. Mean it's the Cliche during quarantine life I'm good. All things considered, but you know healthy and still working so. I'll count that as a win. All right well I look forward to this baseball is starting to to grab the headlines at least from this ESPN special mark. I'm going to guess that is part of your national coverage for USA Today. What are you expecting to hear from? The Commissioner Adam Silver when he appears on ESPN a little later on. I wish I knew all the answers to where these moving parts, or how to, because it's so fluid blood, if nothing else I you know, I do expect for him to at least address to following topics of you know more details about resuming the season. What the health protocols would be what the bubble parameters would be in Orlando You know to what degree? Will the leak make any sort of. That reflect the player concerns when it comes to knock a safety measures, but their hopes to be able to continue their efforts with speaking out on on. You know racial and social justice issues, so I don't know exactly what he's GonNa. Say All those things, but I expect that there will be. You know some more clarity because last week you know Adam. Silver was scheduled to hold a conference call with You know a handful of reporters along with some health. Experts to be able to talk into detail about where the NBA is going from here now that they had agreed to a tentative framework with the players union, but that timeline push back because you know the League and the players Union were still needing to iron out. Not even you know having dot, t's and cross I. Don is in cross. T.'s but also figure out the details for next season of. Will this season actually be resuming on summer I or at a later date? So how ready is the League in in your understanding? Mark and I realized we can't separate what's happening in the aftermath of the George Floyd murder and protests from the pandemic, but but if it's at all possible to compartmentalize this. How ready was the league or is the League to execute a plan? Specific to its pandemic concerns? It's again. It's June fifteenth. We know some of the timeframe. July thirtieth appear to be a target date. I mean we're we just about there in terms of of a deal. Yeah from what I was told before you know. Everything came out on Thursday and Friday the PL-. More players were concerned and Kyrie Irving led a conference call earlier in the week. You know people in the League Office for telling me look like they're close to a deal. They've already grade to the major frameworks. Now it's a matter of. Going through every single detail dotting all the is crossing all the ts but they. They were planning. As I was mentioning before. For Adam Silver to be on a conference call house health expert second walk us through all the specific safety measures. They're also planning on. You know posting maybe a document online to show all the health guidelines and I was told it was going to be around one hundred pages or so. So you know when it comes to, you know what this means now the players are spoken out. I don't necessarily think that this is going to cause them not to be able to have this season the reality is the NBA that same day had already set? You know a memo to all thirty teams outlining specific dates of hey, beginning on Friday Nah. You can continue having voluntary workouts with up to two coaches. Players are going to start getting tested July or June twenty third. You'RE GONNA, go to Orlando July seventh so. To answer your question if there were any major hurdles. They would have been a great deal to begin with. But I think in light of this call. The still needs to be more details offered in clarity offered. On their safety measures what the bubble would be like how they would handle. Families Visiting. And also how can they channel? What's been going on ever since you know the George Floyd killing? Of how the NBA Can take ownership both from a League any player perspective and continuing to use their platform into to speaking out on these issues so It's not one specific thing. It's kind of all the above. Bought from you know what I was told when I talked with Dana, grand the Lakers. Team Rep for the Players Union. He was saying you know a lot of things that change. The player sediments is more of their concern of. You know the social justice issues, and it would resume in a season hurt that 'cause so I would expect her to be more clarity this week for how they move forward without. All right Mark Medina who covers the NBA National Reporter USA. Today then as you used the term shift conversation. Let's shift the conversation towards that. Kyrie Irving I, said this a little bit earlier I know he's a terrific player. There are times when Kyrie Irving speaks I. go whatever his take is. I'm going to go the opposite way. He's very unique personality to to put it. kindly. However I think that this is pretty thought. Provocative in terms of how NBA players feel regarding this period of time in our country and. This could just be a small segment of players on this conference. Call Mark. You would know much better than I, but but how much pause has this given the league and given the players specifically about continuing to follow in the footsteps that would ultimately lead them back into a resumption of play in July. Yeah, no, it's an interesting question because I think you know at least from what I've talked to people around the League there's a lot of mixed feelings for Kyrie. Irving, because of just you know how. He's handled his time in Cleveland and Boston and Brooklyn. The fact that he was on the player's Union, and he had a chance to voice these concerns before the vote came to be. And the fact that You can't help but look at the reality that he's not even playing anyway because he's hurt. But, even even if you put all that in perspective. He might not be the Best Messenger for this, but the message is still valid so whether it's coming from Kyri or another player that shouldn't I think from a legal standpoint you know, dilute the importance and understanding all these moving parts. Now you know the thing that I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around is is the question that you asked or the concern that Kyri brought up. Part of a picture of the players union not. Voting. In the players interests based off the feedback, was it a product of the players union, not doing a good job and informing those players wasn't a product of those players being informed, but you know they just didn't do their part and being fully engaged, or was it a product of? You know use this analogy of you know. They're trying to jump back into the pool. Did they got up to the diving bar board and look down and think okay. This is a pretty steep drop. I'm having second thoughts. That's the thing that's unclear but I. Think even with all these unknowns. The issues philosophically are all valid and I. Think once the dust settles at least for me, then it'll be appropriate to get into okay. What was this the right thing for Kyrie to do what we're his motives? Were pure selfish, but right now I think the most important thing are the issues itself that are raised, and then how does the NBA and the Players Union go about? You know rectifying all those things so that all parties feel comfortable with resuming the Susan. And I would think too that. We talked a little bit about Kyrie Irving. What he's all about in terms of his quirky personality. You would certainly say that Dwight Howard. Is is somebody who fits in to that type of of description on different levels, but just in terms of somebody who you might not always take that seriously. The messengers in this case in Portland, are the messengers, not just the message, but who the messages are Patrick, Beverley, I thought raise an incredible point which was. If. Lebron says replied. We're GONNA play and tha extent mark. I happen to think he's right. Yeah you know I. There's no doubt about it that St- NBA, stars have a large voice in this You know a few weeks ago, you may recall that a lot of these guys had a conference call on their own, and that included Lebron and Anthony Davis and Russell Westbrook Jaanus Colli Leonard I'm probably leaving a few off of there and you know Adam silver takes those guys seriously, but I wouldn't say it's as simple as hey Lebron. says yea or Nay. That's where the NBA will go, and this is where it's complicated. The reality is you have the Players Union, see Chris Pas the president. You have an executive committee which includes Kyrie. Irving and then you have. Every single team has a team wrap. which in theory they're supposed to get updates from the executive committee on a periodic basis, and they're supposed to relay all those things to their teammates, so they're in the loop. Now from what I was told the way the vote came about That part is unclear. Was it just a executive committee vote? was it just a team rep? I know the team reps voted and it was twenty eight to nothing, but that vote reflect that specific person or what the feedback was from the players. That's the thing. That's hard to read, but. You know if I had to guess the season's GonNa go underway, because if there were if there were so many concerns and I don't want to downplay this because there, there are serious concerns. But if the concerns were so serious, there wouldn't have been in a unanimous vote and they would. They have agreed the framework and I think because of that. Because it's unanimous I. It goes beyond Lebron, saying Yasser. Now like there that is reflected in. You know at least the executive committee and some of the team wraps now. Does that include truly reflect hail? However, single young player feels every single role player fields. was that Chaim rap vote based on the team sediment they got. That's the thing that's hard to read, but I think philosophically it somewhere in the middle where the star players including Lebron definitely have exerted their voices, but it's not them. Solely calling the shots. Other way. Do some of the older coaches in the League? I mean. Do they have a leg to stand on? So to speak with regards to hey, concerns potentially. If you're of a certain age or over a certain age, we know what the data as at least told, listen this in this regard, and and how the League would would manage that situation I mean wh, what does that mean for for some of the elder statesman of the NBA when they get back up and running. Yeah I know a lot of those coaches they they were upset with Adam silver when he spoke on TNT, suggesting that some of the older coaches would be restricted. With the role either on the sideline or even just being there, you know I was told from the League office. That Adam silver simply just misspoke quite. He was trying to make it a point. That we're aware you know statistically that older people are more vulnerable than younger people, but that doesn't guarantee anything that doesn't guarantee that the players won't be affected. That doesn't guarantee that older coaches would suddenly become vulnerable, so the point that was emphasized to me, is that? This just a that. The NBA was going to be paying very close attention to that, but they weren't going to exclude people They've said that they've put in a lot of you. Know Safety Protocols with having you know outside consultants, looking at medical records and testing every single person multiple times a day to make sure that no one's affected, but it really comes down to. If a guy is showing symptoms if a guy's testing positive, and then that's when they would be quarantine that person as opposed to taking preemptive measures based on age. So as it stands as of right now at two twenty, one on June fifteenth, Mark. You would lean more towards a resumption of play at the end of July. Then you would lean against it. Yes I would you know as a Friday? They announced all the specific dates on when they would resume the season and they haven't. Indicated they're changing that. Otherwise it's it's almost it's the question you just asked me. Is the same question I asked Danny Green when I spoke with him on Friday night. I all given all these moving parts optimistic already that the season's resume it. And, he said frankly you know well. They've already announced it and I haven't got any indication that it's GonNa Change so i. think what's going to happen as. You know based off these conference calls. That might just create more dialog for there to be. More clarity from the league, maybe some extra safety protocols and also maybe. Some more ideas on how the NBA and the players you know independently, and as a group can use the season as a platform to maximize. You know speaking out and doing various initiatives in regards to address racial injustices. And the NBA famously does not Neil. I don't I don't know that I would expect that to change but I would think that they probably will. Spend not during the anthem I will say yeah INTERESTING QUESTION DERNA I wouldn't be surprised if it does change. Just because of climate we're in, and that is a symbolic gesture. I will say at the same time. Is that I don't think it would be a good look for Adam silver to simply say. Hey. This is a rule. You are required to stand. Especially during you know what's been going on lately and the NFL issuing Mea Culpa. But I would say as why. There was so much attention on the NFL with the anthem. Is because a lot of the players didn't feel empowered to use their voice and other avenues through their own charity initiative, just speaking out where the NBA ironically enough they still had that as a rule, but because the players felt Selim empowered to speak out, and other ways didn't really see the national anthem as an issue, but I think because of the times we're in I, could see the players thinking. Hey, that's that's important. From a symbolic standpoint to be able to use that gesture knowing that it's you know these Games are going to be on TV. But I think regardless that that's not gonNA be the end. All be all you know before this. George Floyd killing happened, and and certainly after I think the NBA and the players are more about the actions and what they're doing behind the scenes as opposed to symbolism. Totally. Agree Mark. We appreciate it all the best. Thank you very much for taking the time. Thanks so much Jeremy Well. You got you do the same Mark Medina National NBA reporter with USA Today. We'll come back. Talk a little bit about that. Some of what was that mark just had to say when we return on extra thirteen sixty. All right. Way To go baseball. As buster only told US earlier in the show. Right up there with the butt fumble in the New York Knicks now at that time you said was too soon now after statement by Rob Manfred. Revise your thinking. Is Baseball. Are they the Knicks? Well. Guarantee a season. Five days ago, that was last Wednesday, Tony Report will be there. Will hold on a second hold on, hold on hold on. We're not ready to go at the fifty four game season. Oh? Hey, you're jumping the gun on us. So essentially what happened here is the players association, said You. Guys want to just play this fifty game season. Listen I'm going to be very protective Marty of something that you told me in confidence. It was really really early on. It was either at the end of March, or it was in April. Morty spoke with somebody who works for a team. For a real Major League baseball team. And that person then said fifty games in August and we said listen. Whatever because we didn't understand that the league had this option. We didn't know that this thing existed, but now looking at it through the benefit of everything that we have learned over the last couple of. tweets do the layers through sad tweet after sad tweet after sad tweet again and piecing this altogether, because we're not labor, lawyers were talk show hosts. Talk but when somebody from a team tossed that number out there and said fifty starting in August, it doesn't seem that random now, does it now? It sort of seems like Yup that came from somebody on the inside. Because that's exactly what was being discussed a couple of months ago that this was always going to be the most likely pattern path. I should say for this sport if it was going to get back up and running this year. Just doesn't feel random, because then you're like what what is he talking about? What is this person talking about that? He saying fifty games in mid-july late. July August. Why because the pandemic is that? Is it pandemic? It's not pandemic related. Because not pandemic related at all. Just seems to be the type of season that baseball wants and. There are tons of reports coming out now. That you can, you can find no shortage of sad MLB tweets out there the Associated Press Where is it? Let's see well bill, shake and I. It's Jim just referencing and a letter today it'll be. It'll be players association. There would be no twenty twenty season unless the players waived any legal claims against the league. I'll be honest. I don't even know what that means. We won't play unless you wave a potential grievance. So I. Don't know what that's all about so that's suggests that if they found out that they were negotiating in quotes in. Bad faith that they couldn't. AP Sports. MLB tells the Union won't start the season unless players wave claims that MLB violated their march agreement, story upcoming. So that's from the Associated Press. So kiss off, baseball. Kiss off. You. Make this these these tweets of A. Really I it just it's mind it's not mind boggling, but it's like you've gotta be kidding me. Listen, I will say I. Mean I do mean this. I feel bad. I feel bad for the people who love the sport I. Feel Bad for fans, and I also feel really really terrible for the people who cover the sport because they rely on this and I don't know what their future is now and that I don't know what any of our futures are going to be especially in a place like this where we only where we've got one big league club. We've got one major league team. So you know I? There's lots of things that you could say and you. You could just be very cavalier and go on whatever baseball goodbye? It doesn't impact me I'll just watch span of soccer all, but unfortunately that's not going to be in the majority of people who listen shows like this, and that's going to impact that we know potentially and that that irritates me again with respect to the fans, but I. do think that you guys can find something else to do with your lives, whereas people who have chosen profession who cover me you feel for for a guy like Dennis you know. How do you feel for for for Ted for Jesse for? How do you feel for those guys? If in fact, this is the way this is going because you know. The cuts have been bad any way in the absence of sports, and now this potentially puts it at yet another level, so we were talking. Earlier as a distraction and find, you can go move onto other things whether it's going to be entertainment or going off to the beach, or whatever else other sports, but I was thinking about that. I said you know what forget it. I'm done I'm done with this season I. Don't want Fifty Games. It's stupid who cares? Let's go ahead and prepare for next year. I'll move on, but I was thinking afterwards. I, it's not just people who tune in for the entertainment. It's people who who work for the team who are not highly paid. Not The you know. The the WHO are not on the field on the players. There are a lot of people behind the scenes that you may not know now. What do you do I? Think the conversations about the the teams who are going to pay their employees through June or July employs. Who've who've been furloughed. There are lot of people that's your livelihood. That's how you make money, and this is not a good time to be looking for new job in exploring new livelihood so. It sucks. It's brutal I. I mean I. I wish they'd get. It figured out at five fifty four games. Whatever else it. It just sucks. It's brutal. This time and I'm very respectful and appreciative of fans, and when fans interest. You know, you've had to listen to me here for months. Talk about sporting events without fans CGI fan, so it's not like I don't ever come out on the side of the fans here. I'm just saying I'm putting off to the side for a second because we're in this business, and because we know these people directly and many of you do. Do as well because they interact, and they're very good and friendly. And what have you by this? This I don't want him. More people shouldn't be losing. Jobs and baseball now is starting to at least enter into that type of conversation where we're talking about more people potentially being at work as a result of them, not being able to figure this out, and if you're so inclined, there's a very interesting. Thread on twitter from Trevor Bauer at Bauer outage where he's addressing rob Manfred on really what's changed what changes? We said okay, we're ready to go. So which was yesterday? That was what? Days where am I? Yesterday Saturday. Yeah today's Monday what changed? Six one nine number TEX is Jim Russell the hot guy with short season or the hot guy with a long season Hashtag equality. Always, the one That was the text that I wouldn't read Oh really when it was interesting, too Marty. Address to me. It's Ok Jim. Six nine number I desperately WanNa. Make love to a school boy hashtag little, Ham Hawk. That means that was. Dumb and Dumber, seven six zero DHL ha, ha, ha, HA, ha! Get a real job up USPS. Again. I don't know what's happening here. Six nine eight Darren. We were talking about the thirty for thirty last night. You guys should get an interview with todd. McFarlane he's the guy. Who bought the home? Run Record Ball? Feels duped comic guys. Anybody pays three million bucks for a baseball I'm not gonNA feel sorry for that guy. I don't care what happens I don't care what happens to the person who hit the baseball. I wouldn't feel sorry for that guy at all. What can you do? What a dumpster fire! And I say it's a dumpster fire because mb executive just sent me. A picture does I will show Mardi of a dumpster on fire? Totally I didn't even ask for. It just arrived here. The dumpster on fire. That's absolutely perfect seriously now this is you know. I mean if it takes two hundred and twenty people to put out a soccer game, know how many are going to take the put a baseball game? That's just. Reminds me of what you said. Last Thursday like there are some that think like including Trevor Bauer. This is just a delay tactic by Rodman for Manfred the owners that way you keep. Keep arguing, and then you finally impose a fifty four season because all all the time that you have left. I can just see them working it out finding a deal and then guess what. Pandemic going on, and also minutely that is what councils the season, but you think about the bad blood. And what a turn off this entire national! Or lack thereof has been over the past few months while other sports are finding a way to at least to come to terms. and. That's just what's right in front of us. Let's not lose sight of the bigger picture here. which is you need to renegotiate or you need? A new CBA. You know there was one other clip. There was one other portion I I started the show reading something from Jeff passing. In which he said, the two sides are not even speaking right right Jeff Passan has a piece up today where he asks himself twenty questions, and he answers himself twenty questions. Here's the final question. This is question number twenty. Is there. Any hope for baseball is what Jeff Passan now has resorted to. This is what it's come to for Jeff Passan. Sure Baseball for all of its. Faults and foibles deserves. People inside the game and out love it. They don't want to see it fail, but they also wonder if it has to one longtime executive. This is mind boggling. One longtime executive saw this coming a few weeks ago. He noted 's notice the burgeoning breakdown of norms, the letters, the name calling the public airing of every article of laundry. Quote it die. And then it will come back. Diane fall apart and ugly fashion send the sort of shockwave through the system that illustrates what's actually at stake here beyond the March twenty sixth agreement beyond pro-rata all the way to next year when fighting will be over the tens of billions of dollars to come in future years, and not just a few billion dollars this year. Such a good point I mean. We're arguing about a couple of billion now. What's IT GONNA? Be Like when they're talking about. Tens of billions of dollars says past. This isn't a collective bargaining negotiation. And it never needed to act like a proxy. It is what it always was an obligation in the middle of a pandemic, a job crisis, a societal reckoning to remind everybody what makes baseball great and they felt. That was me adding and they failed. But that was that was the final question that Jeff Passan asked himself and then answered to himself. It has die, and then it will come back. It reminds me of what buster told you in the first hour of the show. It is so destructive for the sport and I feel like we're seeing the first inning of nine inning war, the this battle over resuming or starting to twenty twenty season is the first inning, the real war, the other eight innings that's going to be the upcoming CVA so get ready. This is like your primer. This turnoff. Get Ready. There's more to come. What was that what? All right. We're GONNA. Spend more time talking about Kyrie Irving and the final hour of the show, but then rob Manfred told ESPN that he no longer five days after guaranteeing a season, he can no longer guarantee a season. That was that was a quick pivot? This is a really really quick about face inspired by the by the players saying all right, we're fine. Implement the fifty four game season. Tell us when just do what you want. Hey, they may not be a season now. Now that might not be a season interesting. By the way just so I. Thought more about what Kyrie Irving had to say than. I ever thought I. Would I still am of the opinion? that. Players. Play? And if you can play, you should do it. I understand the counter argument to that which is wait a second. We don't want to take away from some of the stuff that's happening with regards to George Floyd protests across the country, and we've SORTA credited the idea that this was going to be a real real turning point in our country in part in some part. That there were no distractions here but I. also think that this is not going to happen overnight. And I think that one of the things that we talked about Dr Richard Lap Chick last week. Was this is? This is turning around. That's that's the metaphor of turning around and aircraft carrier or a cruise ship or an oil tanker whatever it is. that. You don't just make a sharp turn here. This is this is a process so from that standpoint. I don't think you can put a timetable on the type of social change that we're talking about here so. You can say it takes away from it now, but it might also take away from it in October or next season or the season after that I mean I tend to think this is going to be a bit of a longer process, but it also sounds like this is. Just, a thought exercise amongst a handful of NBA players in the majority of them feel like we should get back and play. We should apply. But it. It is interesting. On Television Tonight Star Wars the last Jedi at four forty seven pm on TNT, not four, forty, six, not four, forty, five, five, o'clock five. You'll miss the opening. The last Jedi four forty seven PM on TNT. Six PM sportscenter Special Return Sports, the not return sports stores, not returning. Well! I wonder if they're all just GONNA. Make Fun of Rob Manfred. Gary Bettman and Cathy, Engelbert from the WNBA Don garber from Major League, soccer and Roger Goodell, Adam silver they're just gonNA look at Manford and be like. What's your problem loser? Why are you even here? This is called the return of sports not how to screw everything up. Drastic, Park three six PM on Scifi. The Hunger Games. Catching fire seven thirty PM on free form spider-man homecoming eight PM on fx. Breaking the band eight PM unreels. Look to breakups that Van Halen went through including years of touring drugs and personality clashes that left them on the brink of destruction. The Bachelor, the greatest season ever APM ABC Kim muscles show. Damn writing the Bachelor Oh, yeah! dvr Set saw that the didn't. The Bachelor announced that it's going to have its very first black bachelor ever. Yes, Yup! Saul that. I've seen that show. Every once in a while. Might I recommend. Omar from the wire. Off The wire. How old is he now? I don't know, but I'm just saying. Let's if we're going to do it bachelor. Let's do it. You know what I'm saying all. Gem You feel me I feel. Go all in. You know what I'm saying right, uh-huh. Yeah, let's not let's not go with. We're not gonNA fall for the banana tailpipe. Type Let's go. Let's go with Omar from the wire Michael K Williams. Jimmy got joke. Our guys, what do bees do? They get married. They go on their honeymoon. So much joy, there is so much joy the punch here that. Joyride. Baseball's. Join Your Voice you proud of that one I was. What what? What's your backup? Joe Judson were here. He'd make you tell another one. No backup joe today that was it. Like that. Right stay tuned loose cannons coming up coming up later on tonight on Kogo. We're going to have one of the heads of the little Italy. Restaurant Association so if you want to find out how it went this past weekend, tune in at seven o'clock tonight loose cannons. They're coming up next. We'll see you tomorrow here on Xtra thirteen sixty.

baseball National Basketball Associatio League Adam Silver Rob Manfred Players Union Kyrie Irving George Floyd Mark Mark Medina Jim Russell Major League Baseball reporter soccer Jeff Passan executive committee Lebron Kyrie Irving I League Office ESPN
Luka Doncic Is A Superstar

Slate's Hang Up and Listen

1:06:54 hr | 5 months ago

Luka Doncic Is A Superstar

"The following podcasts contains explicit language. Hi, I'm Steffan VATS. Sports podcast hang up and listen for the week of August twenty, four, th twenty, twenty. On this week's show we'll talk about Luca. Donncha. Churches Incredible Buzzer beating step back three to lift the Dallas Mavericks over the. La Clippers on Sunday. Bang. Bang and his emergence as a bobble and NBA superstar. David, Ogden of the athletic will come on to discuss the start of the football season. The high school football season that is which commenced last week in states around the country. Kovic. Be Damned and finally. Ethan Strauss, also of the athletic will be here to assess. The continued drop in NBA television ratings, and whether that matters on the author of the Book Word Freak and a few seconds of panic, and also while than outside I'm in Washington DC John From Palo Alto. California is slate staff writer and slow burn season three host Joel Anderson up Joel what's up stuff and you know I guess this is a show that lives up to the billing. What is it two's company? Three's a crowd just you and me right now it's just the two of us. Yes. Out Bill whether we can make it if we try. National editor of slate host of slow-burn season for David Duke. Reward winning book the Queen. Josh Levin is mostly away this week mostly because. And Josh alone did the interview with Ethan Strauss relieving Joel and me of the heavy burden of doing three segments all by ourselves. Thank you Josh. Appreciate it. I guess he's you need to slow burn four and he's already going on us. He's entitled to vacation. That's fair fair point. Did my Mike Breen impersonation in the intro to the show and Lebron James tweeted something similar and I suspect a lot of ten year olds in Slovenia are also screaming bang. Bang today to for those who might not be familiar with it. Bang is NBA play by play announcer might brains signature call his deployment of two bangs on Sunday after Church drained his twenty seven footer over a helpless Reggie Jackson for one thirty, one, thirty, three, win and a to tie in the first round playoff series. It's cemented the shot in Basketball Lor. Let's listen to the original Finney Smith the inbound. Back, the don-shik. Dodgers pulls up three pointer. Good. That's wins the game at the BUZZER. Joel that brought a huge smile to my face when it happened and just again listening to it, it was great broadcast work don-shik finished with forty three points seventeen rebounds and thirteen assists becoming just the third player in NBA history after Oscar Robertson and Charles Barkley. Fifteen ten in a playoff game through the first four games of the series he's averaging thirty, one, point, five, ten, point, five and nine point eight was rounding up is a triple double and remember that he did his business on Sunday on a sprained ankle and without his Latvian Man Kristaps Porzingis who sat out with a left he'll contusion mavericks coach Rick Carlisle said after the game this game today was from another planet retired NBA player channing Frye tweeted, what are we witnessing? To which dwayne Wade replied I don't know Bro but I'm glad to witness it from my couch. Joel. Are we all witnesses move? I mean so Tony. I'm congenitally predisposed to never give Dallas credit for anything but Lucas incredible man and you know where it's possible to initially to say, well, some of this hype you know you know you hear about the legendary Your Eurostar I. It reminded me like when Ricky Rubio came over right and you heard so much how great he was is such a young age and we saw the Olympics and then it didn't quite add up and so as would lucas. Soda the same thing let's. Just, let's just hold off before we crown him and then you see what he's doing against the clippers who are the league favorite right now with two of the best perimeter defenders of their generation and he's getting whatever he wants dude it's not like he's incredibly fast or anything it's not like he's beating these guys off the dribble. He's like slow footing his assets of the lane and getting whatever he wants against Hawaii Leonard and Paul George. So maybe would not witnesses. But like whatever this is I mean I struggled to remember. A time when I can remember anybody this young being this dominated against a team this good right. I mean have you seen anything like that? Now He's twenty one years old and you know it's one thing and I think you're right the hype is generated largely by people who aren't players right by media members who want to be excited about someone coming into league especially I think someone from Europe I mean I think we went through that period in the late eighties and nineties where the skepticism about European players from NBA players. was genuine and there's a race factor here to you know he's white. We want to see a great white player leaves medium some white media members do and I think that contributed. So some skepticism of people like Tony Cuco CH- back in the day. But now there is this universal acclaim and I think that when players in the league step up and respect other players in the league, you know it's genuine I mean some of the tweets after the game on Sunday and be dot com collected a bunch of them cj mccollum. Step back to Freedom D. Wade Capital W. O. W. with tax mation points. LUCA WE ARE NOT Worthy Bradley beal on my God Luca Bobby Portis Luca a bad boy demarcus cousin young Fellas Special Tristan Thompson. Luca is different and then steph curry. And then blouses that's from. Chapelle, show I had the cat? Raffaello. Referee. Reference. What I aim blouses that's Prince. It is totally worth by the way going and watching but clip Charlie Murphy telling that story about Prince. So you know I think that's what we're seeing here. There's this universal recognition that he is damn good at twenty one in the top five at lea- straight now of NBA players and the question before the playoffs was well, can you do it in the playoffs? He was rookie of the area had a good season. He can score and buckets, but can he do it now and he's doing it now? Yeah and I think that's the thing that it's who he's doing it against. The gives it a lot more credence right because if he was doing against. Randomly, the Pacers the magic, it would probably be a little bit easier to dismiss, but he's on the team. That's the underdog. He's the guy that's missing his second best player. They're the seventh seed. This is not supposed to happen. He's not supposed to make it look this easy or efficient right, and he's able to do that while hurt and so like you know we're listening. We're watching a lot of this unfold on social media. You were just talking about falling those tweets and so there's all this debate about where is he the best twenty one year old ever and you know then people bring up oh. No Michael Jordan was twenty one years old when he dropped sixty on the Celtics and rhino you you know Kobe was great. Lebron was great shack. Great Magical. Great at all these agents. That says everything you need to know about how good luke is is that when you invoke those names, it really doesn't matter where you rank in that conversation that tells you how special he is and how special what he's doing is right now right and one of his best games in the bubble round was against Jaanus and the bucks had the number one defense in the NBA this season. Donncha had thirty, six, thousand, nine, hundred, and fourteen. They won one hundred and thirty, six, hundred, thirty, two in overtime and he controlled the game and the thing about don which of courses that like magic can do everything it's the ball handling. It's the court vision. It's the passing and add to that. You know he hasn't been the greatest three point shooter yet. Shooting like thirty percent, which is not terrific. But Damn that looked like a pretty good three and he made a couple of other pretty amazing ones against the clips to isn't that the right comparison because you you know I mean you mentioned the racial implications of this right? You know, oh, he's a white player, and so then you hear these comparisons to bird bird by the time been like magic is exactly not a comparison I think when you think of like tall guide nine. Nobody would have said magic was an incredible athlete. By the standards NBA players. Right now, that's exactly what I think I think that's dead on when you watched magical watch those clips of magic playing and it's not like he's blowing by people. It's that that efficiency that smoothness that effortlessness that Church possesses and dodges two hundred and thirty pounds man he's not some Little Guy Oh it's real easy to get confused with like powerful because especially now that we can't see everybody's last names on the I mean when he has the ball, it becomes apparent who he is but for second you like wait a minute which do is That Mexican Labor or whoever, and then all of a sudden. Oh, that's the dude that's the guy and so yeah I you know I, I did not expect to be this impressed by him. So early but I mean it seems like I mean it's so unfair if you're if you're a fan of a team and you've just not had a superstar like you know I'm trying to think of you know maybe the Pacers, the pacers just had some real misfortune right speaking of Paul George. But they go from dark the mavs handover their franchise from. To Lucas. Peyton manning the Andrew Luck and like not even like it's even better because you know probably you might argue that Luka is better and more efficient than than dirk was. Already right. That's a conversation like. The, imagine the luck that the mavs were able to get where they did in the draft right now and. Ready to go to replace their franchise defining player it's unbelievable. The Mavericks traded up from number five in the two thousand eighteen drafts traded with the hawks to move up to number three because the Phoenix Suns in the Sacramento Kings decided to pick Deandra. And Marvin Bagley wanted to. Eight Bagley haven't had terrible I two years in the League. Average sixteen and eighteen. The also suspended for testing positive for a diabetic bagley averaged fifteen. He was mostly hurt this season. There are not terrible players, but the hindsight with this is getting to be like Greg Oden Michael Jordan Kinda hindsight. Oh well, you know it's it's weird. You say that too man because I mean. There was so much hype with Luca is not like anybody didn't see this coming he dominated the world's second best league as a teenager is a teenager right and so that's a mistake is a little bit more understandable and nineteen, eighty four with Sam, mbui is dominant Akeem Olajuwon dominant in it's different era of basketball, but it seems like Luca was tailor made for this era. And he's done nothing but to just justify that since then I mean he was the head of the most effective explosive in NBA history this year like I mean that can't be overlooked that the that the mavericks had the best offense, an NBA history this year, and he's a big reason for it. So you know the clippers caught a bad with man, this is not an ordinary number, seven seed and so. I I don't feel bad for them, but you can kind of see how that might happen. Right well, and there's also the sort of the equalizing the flattening factor of the bubble. There's no advantage. It is a different vibe and I wanNA talk about that vibe a little bit Joel because what I've really loved about watching these Games has been that it feels like you're in the gym like these dudes are just playing pickup and credit to the networks, the TNT and ESPN and ABC, and the NBA for experimenting with. Camera angles that gives it sort of different view that let us feel like we're courtside, there was a courtside video of Lucas shot. That was really exhilarating because it was like watching some dude, do something great 'cause there's nobody understands you're hearing the squeaks you're hearing the explosion of joy like it was an NCAA tournament game and the view gives you the sensation of what it's like to watch the best athletes do something amazing up, close? Yeah. I. Mean I guess what necessity is the mother of invention right so they. Had to figure out a way to put up a really good product and they had all this time to sort of build towards this. I've mentioned a couple of episodes. There was always this theory that the NBA might go toward more sound stage type atmosphere that they'd be less emphasis smaller crowds and much more intimate settings to watch basketball games, and this is sort of it, and now we see it's kind of amazing. The quality of basketball has been really good I. Guess if like if you really love defense and. You Miss. You know the Nixon heat of the ninety S, and maybe this is frustrating for you. Everybody's getting their shots or whatever. But if you just like hoop and you just want it to stumble in on, you know watching the pros up close and seeing the way they talk each other. You know we can hear Carmelo cursing all the damn time like Chris Herring wrote about and five, thirty, eight you know it's just so much more intimate feeling and are just really enjoyed it man I mean I didn't. I Apologize I was one of the people that said they should not be doing this a stupid. Maybe we shouldn't be trying this but. Upon further reflection this has been pretty damn cool down that Chris Herring story was really fun he. Actually did like a data breakdown. The TNT broadcasts. And calculated how many times had to cut out because somebody was cursing on the court and it turns out that Carmelo is king he was plus seven on getting cut out. So let me he's GonNa. Make the hall false reasons, and that's another he was the most efficient cursor, the most prolific Carson. NBA Playoff history. So we did though I mean the nuggets jazz game also came on last night another great game. Now, the highest scoring game to really dominant players and Donovan Mitchell in Jamal Murray right and I mean the nuggets of the higher seeded team, but they just can't seem to do anything with Donovan. Mitchell right Donovan Mitchell had fifty one on Sunday. Mama had fifty the first time in history in of the NBA The two guys went for fifty and a playoff game. Mitchell also had fifty seven in game one of the series which was the only game that the jazz lost. Mitchell now belong in this group of elite NBA players. He's in his third year in the League he came out of Luvell. He was not like projected as superstar. Was He Joel? No not at all you know what's really interesting as I wear a staffing can see this not everybody else weighing fear the beard shirt of James. Harden. Just totally coincidental just threw it on this morning but I saw Donovan Mitchell the last two postseasons because they played against the rockets and the rockets eliminate them and I was like Oh Donovan Mitchell very good player but you know This sort of a cap on him because he's not an efficient score and he's not exactly a playmaker in the way that everybody else's and for whatever reason he's just taken off now I mean I would. Maybe, this needs to be a little bit more context of this because the nuggets and missing one of the best defenders Gary Harris one of the more you know you start sturdier better perimeter defenders in the League that guy. And you know the I who knows what to think about any of this stuff. So soon, like again, the context for these Games is all sorts of weird because it's not really a continuation of the season that we already had. We're looking at team sort of in a new context now. So you know Donovan Mitchell is going off against this nuggets team. So obviously, you know things are very different. Now you know the nuggets and not the same team that they were when they were compiling be the third seed Nicoli has lost a lot of weight in strangely enough is just been sort of absent. Haven't felt his presence in the Games in the way that we discussed all these other players that are MVP caliber. So Yemen I mean you know Donovan Mitchell is just sort of taking this moment and grabbed by throat and we obviously should be talking about him in a lot of the same ways we should be talking about Luca because he's been every bit as dominant and arresting a presence in these Games anybody else yeah. This is turning out to be a lot of fun. And I think that's the biggest surprise for me. It was you weren't sure with the players respond to the environment would the games? How would the Games look and feel on TV, I'm kind of like seeing the virtual fans the video screens behind the benches I like seeing the players kind of spaced out and reacting it's that camera angle from behind the officiating table when they shoot through the plexiglas and you you hear the RAFF communicating with the game operators that's really interesting to me. And I, it also feels like for all the boredom that the players are probably feeling off-the-court. It feels like it's like a bunch of guys collectively being part of something and enjoying what they do in a different way on encumbered by the sort of brutal travel and the media focus in your face and the scrutiny that comes with being a professional athlete. It's been kind of refreshing. I feel and I'm site for the rest of the playoffs. Yeah me. Too I mean I think that you know the Kinda ended on that point I. think that's the thing that we're really sort of underselling the the idea. These guys don't have to travel anymore because we've seen studies showing about how hard travel is on athletes bodies, and so we're just getting to see them. You know maybe this isn't quite there peak because a still as this long lay-off but that's not a factor anymore. We're just getting to see WHO Anonyna-. That's pretty damn cool and man if a peek at the conference finals and in the NBA finals, we're all going to benefit from that. Absolutely. This episode is brought to you by Ziprecruiter, hiring is challenging, but there's one place you can go hiring is simple fast and smart a place where growing businesses connect to qualified candidates that place is ziprecruiter dot com slash hangup ziprecruiter's since your job to more than one hundred of the Web's leading job sites but they don't stop there with their powerful matching technology ziprecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invite them. To apply to your job, you can even add screening questions to your job listing. So you can filter candidates and focus on the best ones. ziprecruiter is so effective that four out of five employers who post on Ziprecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day to try ziprecruiter for free listeners can go to ziprecruiter dot com slash hangup right now that's ziprecruiter dot com slash hangup ziprecruiter dot com slash hangup ziprecruiter the smartest way to hire. The debate over whether, there should be a college football season continued last week on Friday about twenty-five parents protested outside of big ten headquarters to demand more information about the league's decision to postpone the fall season at least three teams Vanderbilt East, Carolina in Louisiana Monroe, PAS practices after spiking positive corona virus test, and at Georgia state a freshman quarterback announced. He would miss the season after being diagnosed with a heart condition as a result of contracting the virus but while that. Was Happening High School football was kicking off in Utah, Alaska both dakotas Indiana Alabama and in Tennessee were David. Been the athletic attended the first game of the season in the state. Last Thursday in Knoxville for three hours of been wrote the debate about whether players could or should play faded. David joins us from Knoxville where he also covers vol's football. So David thanks for us and what was it like watching a football game amid a damn pandemic man it was weird. I was actually talking to a friend of mine about this earlier today the levels of witnessing it were hard to wrap your mind around in the moment because. From a pier sports fan human level man it was awesome. Just playing football. You could see guys playing. You weren't thinking about the fact that there's a kill one, hundred, seventy, thousand plus Americans it's hard to really just enjoy it because even if everyone's fine at the game that you're at, you think about the concept of high school football, you think about how many people have masks below their nose or aren't wearing masks or? You know socially distance urges sitting there your five people in here have this like this is going to be a problem. It was conflicting especially as somebody whose livelihood is tied to people playing football, and now seeing that reality is staring at in the face man it was one of the weirdest nights I've had this year a year full of weird nights. Know your story definitely conveyed that weirdness and the ambulance, and you know as Joel and I have been sort of counseling against the idea of football this. Year and what we know about which states are not doing a great job following guidelines and making a faith effort to control the spread of the virus you could really feel where you were and what it was like. So credit you on that it was a terrific read about this weird moment in sports and I started reading one paragraph in your story David and it went like this turner new players were concerned. He felt it. He heard it especially from the seniors and I thought Oh they're concerned about corona virus. But no I kept reading and it's would they get to play any games in two thousand and twenty one game five games every game he didn't have answers no one does that to me felt like it was so on. The knows about what the culture of football in certain parts of this country. are going through hey, it's not really about the virus can replay. When can we play? Yeah, it's. It's hard because I remember myself at seventeen eighteen I'd be thinking about the exact same things he it's easy to look as an adult. Kids. They don't really have a sense of the bigger picture, but then it's like, no kid does I think that's why you're seeing on college campuses. You're seeing all his videos of bars being packed and it's like I'm going to be fine. They probably are going to be fine but who might not be fine is the person that okay you go to a bar or whatever you can track the virus is not a big deal. I'm not going to get tested I feel fine. You might be a symptomatic. you go out to eat you pass to somebody who you know is not going to be fine. You know America's obviously very individualistic culture and I think as you look at all the many reasons why the pandemic has impacted America more than other countries it's not to see it. As you know, that is a big reason why and the reality of life in a pandemic is your personal choices are not your personal choices. So to play this game, the coach in athletic director at Halls High School, they mandated temperature checks right required fans. To, wear a mask allowed only thirty percent of the stadium to be filled even put strips of red tape six feet apart in the stands in band team hand sakes like after a game right and so you even wrote it was evident early in throughout the night that they're working their home stadium earlier in the day was mostly being ignored. This just seem like virus protocol theater basically everybody just kind a new We're supposed to go through the motions here but I mean, we're out here. Obviously, we don't give a shit about. If we get this I think there's always a tough balance between real precautions and Cova Theater and I think everyone sort of acknowledges that you know it's it's weird like you're playing football and the other team was gives and they were very aware that game broadcast locally and they're very aware the cameras can be fixed on their sideline for the whole game. Is We we have to you know both coaches. We don't want to be the reason why people don't get to play. and. It's great that they you know your your team is socially distance and you're sitting you're standing six feet apart on the sidelines possum you know doing what you gotta do but you're playing football and you're gonNA be riding on a bus with these guys like drawing the line between these are things that are going to protect people in these. Are you know Kobe? Theater measures that just look good that that probably aren't doing that much. It's a tough line to to sort of walk. One of the coaches kind of just gives it up in the the story when he was talking about the precautions and he says, if it looks good to the people who are against football and gets us to continue to play, I'll do it. It did not feel to me that coaches and educators in Knoxville were asking whether this is necessary or whether it's right. Did you get that sense in talking to people? I think they're trying I think everyone knows that there's only so much. You can do like the concept of holding a high school or College football game. There is an inherent risk there that is unavoidable and I think you know you can say you gotTa Wear Mask The stadium where everyone wearing masks once they got into the stadium no people wore mask they had one to get in but. I. Don't know what the I don't know if I put a number, there were a lot of people that just took it off or had it their neck during the game, and if you're sitting in a crowd and everybody's yelling which obviously do. You don't have to be an epidemiologist say that's probably not great and so. Again I think it's not about that specific game, but you start about extrapolating this over hundreds of games over a bunch a weeks in thirty eight states, and you're like this not seem like the greatest concept. But yeah, you can socially distanced the seats are people going to apply are people going to actually sit apart and only sit within sixty two people they live with? I. Don't maybe some places I saw that two eighty in Utah Stop the game because fans took off their. Masks and he said we're not starting this game back up until you put your masks back on but you know socially distant seats I didn't see people necessarily apply to though or you know or or try those. You know saying you have symptoms please don't command. Here's the temperature check. They're all Kinda half-measures only so much they can do and it's hard when there are legitimate arguments the other side I think the idea of mental health kids I think that's a legitimate argument of. Seventeen year old kid and I haven't working hard to play high school football. This is my last year and you say I can't play. Man. That's hard. It is. It is hard there. There are no right answers. All of this. There are only wrong answers perhaps slightly less wrong answers where other people get hurt in different ways absolutely sympathize with this when I was seventeen years old like if you told me, I, had to. Miss. Montage senior. Year. I would have just been devastated and there's like there's not a week that goes by that I don't think about my senior year high school football, right but I've read about all these kids. So like the Washington Post wrote about kids you know transferring from other states like there's been like guys moved from Orange County to Valdosta Georgia a UC recruit who moved there to play football and all these guys are sort of crisscrossing and. Trying to Fi-. Games around the country and I'm just throwing this. Both of you all for years people who've tried to pretend football is just some sort of regular extracurricular activity right? That school comes. First, we focus on school and football's not that important. But then all of a sudden soon as it gets bad like now, people telling us that football support to the community and the mental health of children and I just wonder if like. Ever, be able to get back the plot on considering football. Just a regular extracurricular activity. Does that make sense to me because we've we've people pretended for so long that it doesn't matter that school is the thing that matters but as soon as shit went bad, all of a sudden people say we've got to have football it's important to the community important to our kids. Do you think we can ever like once this is over would does that look like then I think it's hard I think in high school football I think. That the value of it to a community, there's some money in there, but it is like sort of a coming together of a small community especially in small I lived in Dallas for the better part of last decade at seeing school football I know what it means those small towns, but college football is so much more complicated because there's so much money tied up into the entire economic structure of higher education is largely tied into them. Playing these games, unpaid athletes producing in many cases, nine digit revenues, further universities so I think when you're saying highschool, you can be just a game just extracurricular activity I. think it is more but that's not an entirely uncharacteristic description of what we're doing but college I think that Genie's out of the bottle what since nineteen, eighty, four, the Supreme Court decision where he started having all this TV money start rolling in and just seeing it's hard because I wanna play the coaches want to play all these things happen yes. They WANNA play but if there wasn't one hundred. Million Dollars Online at some universities. Do you think they'd be playing college football? Absolutely not there's no way it would not be happened. Yeah but David, there's not one hundred million dollars on the line. In Valdosta Georgia this is true and the coach had team. You know said I disagree with what California's doing suspending the football season, and then I'm reading one of these stories and it turns out that the football program at this high school at four positive covid tests this summer including a coach. And Yeah, the coach sort of walks off by saying, yeah, we check temperature twice a day. You know sanitizer hands like crazy and he goes on to say I, think we need football right now more than we ever needed football. This to me is the crux of the debate colleges have researchers epidemiologists. The. Way The big ten in the pack twelve came to their decisions was because they consulted a lot of scientists. Scientists don't exist in. Valdosta Georgia who are helping school districts make these decisions they're relying on the states out make decisions. So this is as you said, hit or miss and what these their ripple effects all this. So you get all these kids transferring schools looking for a place to play and you. Get coaches who argue that this is more important than anything and I want to go back to what I asked you earlier you know in your conversations with people in Tennessee did you get a sense that administrators had actually debated whether this was the right thing to do I didn't talk to that deeply about it because I think from football people there are so few people who say that we shouldn't play that. I just generally assumed that most people think that they should play because they're wanting to play if they want to sit out, they can. So I, think it's more a sense of can we a lot more than? Should we in the answer? Can we in most states has been? Yes you can, and if they can they will I wouldn't consider myself a high school football expert by any means, but I have not. Heard of any stories of places where they've said, you guys can play football and schools. Districts are saying you know now we're probably not I'm sure there's probably some out there but the vast majority of places where they're saying you can't play football you will again, I, don't know a lot about the dynamics school boards but if I'm just thinking about the power dynamics, that's a lot of how this all goes down. You know school boards, the people they're going to making these decisions and in a lot of places, parents are the ones that have a lot of our parents are people that have money in the town and allows people wanna play football and the school board says, we don't want you to play football while it's going to be some backchannel conversations they're saying, no, you do want us to play football just trust US YOU DO A. I think that is what you're gonNA see in a lot of places where the people who WanNa play the families, that sort of run a lot of these small towns people that are on these small towns they're going to sort of get their way and and I. I think you're GonNa see that a lot of places across America where families that run universities families that run convert. It's people that do have said scientists and researchers in all these things that they're constantly communications with the president's the education people are making these decisions in sort of saying, okay. We understand what the want with the coaches want what the players want, but the president's are making the call David. EXE For that. Thanks for risking your life to go cover hall verse Gibbs in Knoxville who who won by the way halls. One, thirty, one, seventeen. Oh, man congratulations to you. Hall is a hope. That carries you. Through the rest of the season. So yeah, thanks for stopping by and we're going to invite David to our bonus segment where we're GonNa talk about this and some other things. Before we listen the Joshua's conversation with Ethan Strauss wanted to let you know that in our bonus segment for sleep plus members, David. Ogden of the athletic will come back and talk some more about college football. If you want to hear that and you're not a member, here's a reminder that you can sign up for slate plus for just thirty five dollars for the first year, you can do that at slate com. Hang up plus. The audience for NBA Games on television as plummeted over the last decade, there are reasons like cord cutting and across the board drops in TV watching generally, and there are also some mitigating factors like liable measurement of online viewership. The Orlando bubble though was seen as a way for the NBA to regain some lost ground. Instead, ratings have actually been lower than those for pre bubble games. Big Trends tend to result from multiple factors. Ethan Strauss wrote in a piece published in the athletic last week among the factors he cited that players coaches and broadcasters have been highly critical of the United States and its government while remaining mostly silent about China. Josh talked to Ethan, Strauss about his story. Let's listen to their conversation. All right you. Start by just laying out the issue as you understand, it what A. NBA's ratings look like now, and why do you perceive this to be a problem for the NBA? The NBA's ratings are down forty five percent since they did the lockout season, the old lockout knows hastily promoted. You would have thought that it wouldn't have been highly rated but people watch they were into Lebron they were into the heat that particular story line and some other storylines and from then until now on network tv on those ABC Games the big games viewership is down forty five percent and during that same time. On. Network TV baseball and football have seen no decline. They have been completely flat end of the client been represented elsewhere where is down forty percent for TNT of that era it is down perhaps around twenty percent for Hispanic. Perhaps suzie still need the final numbers and we've also seen local TV ratings decline and people do a lot of coping people try to Ham haw about the reasons why as this bad news is accumulated? Streaming and you know pirating of games, it's just off trying not to face the reality that the NBA has seen a decline in domestic popularity whites problem for them. It's because they are in an economically precarious time right now considering that they are about to have a season. We don't even have fans gate revenue as a huge part of how the MBA makes. Money. You've had owners spending a lot of money to get the teams and one way they can extend their credit lines as the sign, a new TV deal, which is at least a promise of cash coming in and to do that, and they want to do that It would be great if your ship was going gangbusters but as I have said, it is not. There were stories in two thousand eighteen. About how NBA ratings were going up across ABC? ESPN TNT NBA, TV I'm looking at this story from sporting news saying viewership for seventeen. Games on ABC jumped sixteen percent average three point eight million viewers has have things changed since two thousand eighteen or was that just a blip and the overall trend line has gone has been going down the overall trend line has been going down. And I think that the blips often get over shared because the leagues like the Trumpet Them But I think around that time. There was a lot of interest in the warriors and Kevin Durant and that did buoy the bigger games to a certain extent and it did buoy the league to a certain extent. But you know over eight years you lose nearly half your viewership on your big games. That is the general. That is the general story that is the general trend, and even if you have these pockets of uptick, the broad sweep has not been good despite all the coping you've categorized explanations for why the ratings are down as excuses. Right. So let me know if this is an explanation or an. That the NBA audience viewership is younger than some of the other sports the you've cited and also more non white than others words you've cited I think there's an element of explanation where younger people like the NBA. But the liking of the NBA doesn't necessarily translate into them down and watching two hours of an NBA game. You can figure out a way to make money off people enjoying seeing highlights over Youtube or highlights over twitter then good. Good for you. It just doesn't seem like they've been really able to do that and I just look I think it's basic. It's razor. The interest in your sport is represented by people sitting down and watching your sport. That's that's what it is. If you look at Gallup surveys, the NBA doesn't appear to be declining in popularity If you look at when people say, what is your favorite sport to watch it's been flat over the last fifteen years. If you look at people saying whether they're a fan of that sport or not interested then has gone up in recent years. So if outcomes razor is that the NBA is declining in popularity domestically, you mentioned that in in your piece then how do you explain the fact that on this metric of literally weather the NBA is more or less popular it seems to either be flat or increasingly popular all is the metric. What you do with your remote controller is the metric what you say to Gallup I mean I think the quick and dirty measurement is whether you're willing to watch the sport I. Mean they're down nearly half their viewership like, what are we doing like? Why are we avoiding this? That's what I don't understand. Why are we avoiding this? You lost nearly half your audience in eight years. We're going to talk about a Gallup survey that just seems kind of ridiculous to be. Would you rather be the NFL where you have this huge TV audience but they're also existential questions about whether this can exist if we're just talking about pure profit pure money-making then yes, you would rather be the NFL now do I wanNA morally be presiding over the NFL? That's a different question but as far as How entrenched they are in American culture and how much money they're making and how much interest there is. Everything is over fifteen million people watch the NFL draft yet they are to starting position that is I think more secure than the NBA's you mentioned some theories and your most recent piece about why ratings could be down and use the thorniest one. Is the political component I am familiar with the theory. The idea that some segment of viewers might be turned off because of whether it's players say off the court or the social justice messages on their jerseys. The fact that they're not talking about China when they're talking about black lives, matter what is the argument or what is the evidence that this is? Causing a decline in viewership I think it's completely obvious. People aren't in the bubble I. Mean you have your most precipitous drop this last year after China I mean in absolute free fall we're having double digits on the national double digits on the local ratings and yeah maybe you're never going to be able to prove it to. T- that it. Had something to do it had something to do with the the China effect on the ratings but that is when the NBA is hitting the news you know for people who are not necessarily completely engaged. I think that when you talk to a lot of people who aren't within media people maybe where their politics don't lineup one hundred percent with what's being evinced. Yeah a lot of people are turned off by it I think that it doesn't take a lot of imagination. Really I feel like I'm being put in the position in a way of just explaining the obvious that gravity exists and I guess I would say to you why wouldn't they? Why wouldn't have an impact? I doubt that people who claim to be very upset about the NBA stance in China are actually upset about the NBA stance on China considering, for instance that. Trump failed to respond to the coronavirus. Because he said that he didn't WanNa piss off China because. They were working on some great trade deals. I don't see any evidence that. People who are big trump fans before that are now like really hate trump because he wasn't hard enough on China the component is a little more complicated than that. It's the idea that people within the NBA are criticizing the United States, which many of the criticisms on point many of the criticisms can be agreed with but that they will not do any criticism at all of China because of the business relationship I think that's A fairly obvious apocryphal that people can understand. They don't have to be Maga- heads to necessarily see it and be put off by it. You're saying there's no evidence I. Think the evidence is is the decline I would again ask for the people who find it so hard to believe why why would it be so hard to believe that I think it's fairly easy to believe well so it's reminiscent to me a little bit of. The conversation around NFL ratings going down during the copper nick kneeling controversy and that being attributed to the copper nick kneeling controversy when at the same time ratings for a Nascar going way down and you know you could look at ratings for Nascar's going down and and maybe if you if you didn't know anything about NASCAR, well, they must be protesting there must be people pissed off about these drivers talking about social justice yeah but. Then does that prove that it can't be true for football because I believe that that particular story tracked with ratings going down and then the NFL did something draconian to stop the kneeling and on the ratings went back up again I mean it's not inconceivable to me that the people who say they're pissed off by that kind of thing pissed off that kind of thing. I, am not I don't care I mean meal away. That's fine by me, but there seems to be a population of people who actually do give Shit Shit I. Do not deny that it's possible that what you're saying is true. What I'm saying is that I don't think that you're saying that it's obvious means that it's obvious. Truth is what do you think the truth is that I feel like this season is a really challenging one to make any conclusions from just because it's so unusual, it's games being played. At a time they've never been played before in a world. In which people's lives have been like totally thrown into disarray. But what does that have to do with the pre pandemic drop? You're saying that there are a lot of small things that don't matter or the don't explain the drop. Maybe if you add up a bunch of small things that at least gets you some of the distance there if you add up the fact. That the League has this younger demographic, that's going to be more predisposed to cord cutting. If you add in the fact that we're in a sort of generational shift in the NBA if you add in the fact that a lot of the you know star power in the League is in the West. If you add in the fact that van was hurt all year if you add an all these other factors, maybe it doesn't get you all the way up to forty five percent, but it gets you. Some distance of the way they're right yeah. I would agree that there is sort of this gestalt that the NBA has and that they've got multiple factors when people bring up MBA, the word cloud pops up is a bunch of positive things in the bunch of exciting things and it seems recently it's well, you know you've got the China issue and there's also the load management and the guys changed teams every year and I wouldn't deny any of those factors. I just think that there seems to be a taboo against acknowledging. Certain factors. RUSSA's acknowledging other factors. Do you feel like it's fair to separate out league executives versus players when it comes to responsibility to talking? About. China, because this is the league where Tebow's Alicia and Sterling Brown have both been victims of police brutality where this video came out of Messiah jury being assaulted by law enforcement official at the moment of greatest triumph for him and his team. These are issues that affect the players. The predominantly Black League affects them. It affects their their families doesn't make sense for people in this community to be focused on that and not expect them to include. China. And every statement that they're making whereas maybe for the we would expect the commissioner and executives from these teams to actually speak more strongly and not support having a training camp at a place where we are getting detained not. I think it makes sense for people to discuss matters that are closer to their heart that are influencing their communities. I certainly wouldn't tell them not to, but there are players who make a tremendous amount of money off of business with China. Specifically I mean the superstar players go there every offseason do a tour of the country, which is why it was so funny to hear. So many people in the NBA saying it's far away it's over. there. We don't know anything about it. There is an intense connection it's fifteen or was fifteen percent of the B. R. I that pays players. I don't think that anybody should be left off the hook in the League of either business with China. Now I think you're erecting a bit of a Straw man saying that they should talk about it all the time I they completely run from it. They don't talk about it ever I think maybe. Something in between would make a little more sense and if they don't WanNa, do it they don't WanNa. do it either I'm not the moral arbiter of the NBA They WanNa continue to conduct business with China and not ever talk honestly about about the other rival superpower in the world that's their prerogative but it appears to have a domestic cost in the United States. That's fairly intuitive. Yeah. I do think it's fair to criticize players who Are Making a lot of money from from China for not saying anything that seems reasonable I don't think that's everybody in the league. Yeah. Everybody is making money but kind of in an indirect way because it's part of the B.. R.. I. But certainly, some players are bigger bigger reapers of rewards through the sneaker companies and others. That's that's certainly true when I think about the China stuff is that the people who claim to have stopped watching. The League. Because of it. Would not be fans of the NBA, if. Everyone was saying exactly what they had wanted them to say about China that they would find another reason to be mad at be like you feel do you think that Ted Cruz would be happy with what the NBA is doing right now if they were saying everything, Ted Cruz. Wants them to say about China. Oh, there is undoubtedly a cohort that is bashing the NBA with China because it's convenient and they never liked the NBA in the first place. Yeah. There are some people they don't care about the. And they don't care about Hong Kong and they're only pretending to because they also don't care about the NBA and they like they like attack in the NBA. But within all of that, there is also a cohort. There's also a contingent legitimately put off Michael Jordan was criticized for not speaking out about sweatshop labor conditions with. Nike and and how his shoes were being made in. Asia. But I don't recall there being any kind of decline in ratings or the popularity of the NBA because of Jordan abetting sweatshop conditions in Asia, there is less ill will towards the nation of China they were less credible rival to the United States I don't think the sweatshop is in China but I I think that yeah. We're not to what you're saying. There's not exactly a complete. Fairness to how we judge any of these things and some things roll off the celebrities back and other things stick and it seems like for Jordan that was a PR crisis that was handled kind of went away. But this this current thing is getting at something I think beyond morality that there are elements of nationalism, and maybe a credible fear that the United States is being overtaken by a country with more population that looks to be on the upswing, and so it's just a different dynamic right now. If we're looking at the Daryl Morey tweet is the PR crisis. I don't think it would be crazy just based on evidence and you're going to say it's because I'm inside my bubble to look at that also as a PR crisis that went away I just don't perceive there being a huge number of people who are like not watching Lakers blazers right now because of China will now, I'm going to go the other direction in some ways I think the NBA didn't get proper credit for being a little bit. A little bit more principled than some other corporations. Silver did not say we need a Fire Daryl Maura Daryl Morey is still you know the GM of the rockets in China's government appears to badly of wanted him fired and I think what happened the NBA why the NBA got caught in a particularly bad ways that they made China. Part of their branding they bragged about how? Well they were doing in China. You know were not as popular as football, but we're international. We're conquering the world and so since the NBA made China's such a part of its brand when the relationship between the two nations curdled I, think it hurt them particularly badly even if they handled, it may be in a way that was more moral than they were given credit for. Ethan Strauss the NBA for the athletic thanks to Ethan and Josh. And now time for after balls in his piece about the NBA's problems, Ethan took a shot at these social justice messages that players are wearing on the backs of their jerseys, not like all of them just Luca Danni pitches the entire mavericks team decided to wear equality on the backs of their jerseys on the mavs aren't international team. So a bunch of them are rendering equality in their native languages Jj Barat Iguazu. Maxi Cleber did it in German gleich bitter goon kristaps porzingis in. Yen leads. Ima-. Zeba. and Luca Danni Church and NOCCO prounounced E. N. A. K., O. P. R.. A.. T. and prounounced I looked up one of those pronouncing things on Google even wrote that casual fans who haven't necessarily heard of Luca and aren't necessarily listening to the announcers at full volume are supposed to know that an echo plowed. No Slovenian for equality. Not Assume that this is another dude entirely who vaguely looks like the European phenom they might have heard Scott van pelt mentioned once just what is accomplished By an American or anyone for that matter reading and Echo Plough on a jersey. Well, I mean you could argue that Lucas sending a message to Slovenia that black lives matter which is cool but it'll be a killjoy. I. Love an Uncle Proud noticed I can even type it without looking at it now. Joel. Can you that's how engrossed I am Yes. You've gotten so much better than the last few minutes. Going over it, I probably am going to fail to pronounce it later, but we'll give it a shot. But yeah, I'm into a two man world. We're learning words in different languages I mean, what's what's the problem? No problem at all Joel what's your Aniko proud noticed various guy. So USA Today published a story last week detailing accusations at the former lsu running back Darius guys rape to students. When he was a freshman in two, thousand, six team USA Today's investigation found the women's allegations were shared with multiple people at the school and that even Lsu coach Ed Ores Ron referred to the assault and a conversation with one of his players that player was one of the women's boyfriends. But both women said, no one from lsu interviewed them or potential witnesses about the allegations in USA. Today found the school didn't appear to have investigated the allegations against guys all. The report came out on the hills of GEIS's recent arrest on multiple domestic violence charges in Virginia. The Washington football team cut guys the same day. Many of these details new. But the noise around guys isn't and the two thousand eighteen NFL draft guy slipped to the end of the round of the draft after having previously been projected as a first round draft pick. There was a lot of speculation as to why guys drop so far the draft and I can say that rumors about these allegations came back then. So now they're out there but it's worth mentioning that another story about guys came out on the same day is that USA Today Investigation Joe Nielsen a former writer for sports illustrated wrote about a run in she had with guys when reporting. On a profile for him in two thousand, seventeen, she went down to Baton Rouge and did all the usual stuff she lined up interviews and even went over to his Alma Mater Baton Rouge. Catholic highschool to speak with his old football coach totally normal stuff. Then Joan went over to the Lsu sports facility to interview guys and he never showed the next day. Joan gets a text from guys. Why the fuck are you poking around my life get out of my business or else? Joan Ford at the message to the LSU S S. D who arranged for the interview I'll read Jones words here. But I was still nervous to do it. No, I was scared. The interview never happened. Her interview was pushed off again and she had to get home. She later wrote the profile making no mention of the threat but did say that guys didn't make himself available for the interview I. Wish I'd seen that story before last week because then what it happened to me at Lsu that same fall would have made a lot more sense in the fall two, thousand, seventeen I started working for ESPN as a national college football reporter but. Very, first assignment for ESPN was to cover lsu's home opener against Byu which have been moved to New Orleans because of hurricane related flooding in Houston. The plane was that help cover the game and then spent a couple days in baton rouge getting what I needed to do a profile on guys didn't happen that way I drove into town, Friday night and watch. Baton Rouge Catholic. Play against its rival parkview baptist. I went to New Orleans on Saturday to cover lsu Byu. After the game a guy on the field and shake his hand in that fleeting moment he seemed like a Nice well-mannered school educated kid he said he looked forward to speaking with me. Sunday I drove back to Baton Rouge out supposed to interview guys that didn't happen. We were supposed to meet Monday didn't happen in the meantime I did all the things reporters are supposed to do I read up on guy since life which would absolutely count as a rough making his father was murdered in two thousand and three and his brother was convicted on attempted murder charge in two thousand sixteen. I tried to put all that stuff into context I drove over to the. Little Ramshackle House where he grew up which it's damn near underneath the overpass and not more than a couple of miles from lsu's campus I read up on the history of segregation in Baton Rouge Jr, including the figurative distance from GEIS's neighborhood to Lsu, and like Joan I went over to Catholic hotta interview, old high school coach asset in the living room of a family member who guys lived with four lot of his childhood. They all said the things you'd expect the guys. To use his bad circumstances to become a good kid meanwhile, guys continue to blow me off Tuesday was out and guys passed along through the s Id that his grandmother had a medical emergency. Well, that was weird because I just interviewed her a couple hours earlier it was clear that Lsu is making excuses for him. I eventually had to go and I never spoke with guys and I never wrote the story. It was just a tremendous waste of time and resources I'm still Sorry about that, ESPN I just assumed guys was a flighty immature kid and that lsu was simply allowing him to be that it. My ESPN's expense I didn't think anything too sinister was going on, but it was clear that lsu bottom line was covering for guys. Then a few months later started hearing all those rumors then guy slipped in the draft and last week long forgotten about Human Lsu I read USA Today's investigation and I read Jones Post about her run in with guys. In now, in a time when some people are risking it all to play football in, don't care who gets hurt to do it. Everything makes so much more sense. Jones said it best we media fans everyone not sworn to the sport's code of moral ambiguity have to be smarter louder better. Football isn't going to. That's right. Football isn't going to be better. It's going to be up to us to make football do the right thing. That was incredible when you were reporting the story I mean it's hard to do all that legwork and then decide to pont. Did you try did you think about writing around it or were your radar? So on that it felt like man, we should just move on here. It just didn't make a lot of sense without guys, right? To that point had not even really done anything. He'd had a great freshman year and he ran for eighty yards against Byu. So it just didn't it without his voice. It didn't seem to make as much sense and you know ESPN has so much money. They can just send you someplace and be like I. Forget it just move on right well and hindsight being what it is. You GotTa be pretty glad that you didn't write a heroic overcoming your circumstances story now. Oh Yeah. I would not have wanted that under my bylined this point so they worked out. then. What is your a NOCCO? Proud nosed? That's good. I've I've mentioned on the show before that I was a fan of the University of Pennsylvania men's basketball team long before I went to college in West Philadelphia. That's because I have a brother WHO's eleven years older than I am who also went to Japan he was there in the early nineteen seventies when Penn basketball was a national power, the team finished third in the AP poll in his first two years on campus losing in the Eastern Regional Finals both times the first one was the shocker pen was twenty eight. And was blown out ninety, two, forty seven Bhai Cross Down Villanova. The second was to a number to North Carolina team that featured Bob, mcadoo, Bobby Jones, and George Karl tens head coaches were Dick Harder the first year and then harder moved on to Oregon and then Chuck Daly and both of those guys would eventually land top jobs in the NBA As a consequence of pens greatness I. became a fan at seven. I could recite the team starting lineup and sing the fight songs in my brothers senior year, he took me to the first round NCAA game where quakers lost a Providence Marvin Bad News Barnes had twenty, six four, the friars by then the names of the quakers had changed corky Calhoun Phil Hankinson and Dave Wall had moved onto the NBA, my new favorite player was six foot. Seven junior forward Bob Bigelow and he was my favourite pretty much because my brother said that his nickname was boobs at least among students because he ran with his chest pushed out forward bigalow average twelve points and eight rebounds as a senior third on the team in both categories. He was a lockdown defender who deferred to better scores at the other end. He wasn't considered NBA material. In fact, he never even made an all Ivy League team. But after a senior season in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, five bigalow was invited to play in a three game all star tournament in Hawaii and he lit it up he averaged almost twenty game against the likes of the soon to be number one pick David Thompson bigalow went from unknown to a first round pick taken by the Kansas City Omaha kings at number thirteen. The draft certainly proved in my mind that I could play bigalow told future New York Times reporter Alan Schwarz in one thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, nine story in the Penn, student newspaper the daily Pennsylvanian I didn't always think. So bigalow lasted four years at the far end of three benches in the NBA. I quickly resumed my anonymity. He told Schwartz I soon became cynical and decided that I wasn't going. To be one of those bench sitters I stayed long enough to get my pension. I was thinking of bigalow because he died last week at age sixty six apparently of a heart attack I interviewed him a few years back not to reminisce about his quaker glories. But about his post NBA, career bigelow worked a couple of years at the Center for the Study of Sport in society at Northeastern University. That was founded by Richard Lap check and he did outreach with kids in Boston schools after his own sons started playing sports bigalow told me. He was motivated to try to change the system. He wound up becoming an advocate for overturning the youth sports industrial complex and it's misplaced emphasis on winning on early specialization on enabling abusive coaches and overbearing parents. bigalow wrote a couple of books on the subject. But I was called just let the kids play and he said that he had given more than twenty, five hundred hawks, two leagues and teams and parents and coaches over the years he argued for limiting travel sports at younger ages for shorter seasons for equal playing time for inclusivity for having fun. He wanted adults to stop shouting at kids and start understanding them. He was totally my kind of coach. bigalow knew that it was a specific in 'cause idiot sports parents and coaches aren't going anywhere but he tried change one mind and one behavior at a time. I had called him up because I was thinking about writing a book about girls on Sports. We talked about the travel sports called the history of girls, sports, the lack of information for coaches on development and gender, and the obstinance of know it all parents some WANNA listen some don't bigalow. told me something they know when they don't i. Tell them. Simply you have to put your ego on the shelf. It's not about you and it's not about winning. If these kids ever become good athletes, it's going to be long after you have them. You're just another little stone on the road to older childhood and adulthood in an e mail on Sunday Richard Lap Chick told me that big was a big man with a big heart Bob. Bigelow is survived by his wife Nancy the retired longtime head swimming coach at Tufts and their Tucson's go quakers. That's great stuff in Bob Bigelow sounds like my kind of guy to man we need more of him. We certainly do more advocates for kids playing sports the right way. Great Tribute Man. Thanks John. That's our show for today, our producers, Melissa, Kaplan to listen to past shows and subscribe or just reach out go to slate dot com slash hang up and you can email us at hang up at slate dot com. If you're still here, I'm guessing you might want even more hang up and listen in our bonus segment this week we'll talk to David. About College football and weather it should return what's the endgame here because you're trying to get them to reverse the decision. Going onto the ASTROTURF field in front of the over. And fixing offices yelling at a pile of bricks. Do. To hear that conversation joined slate plus for thirty five dollars for the first year, you can sign up at slate dot com slash hangup loss for Joel Anderson and Josh Levine I'm Steffan fats US remember elmo beatty, and thanks for listening. Problem Nosed Inigo Proud. And I go round nosed in NOCCO pronounced and not go plow first inaugural pronounced NOCCO love northeast I think and I feel proud no one I, heard was power nosed without the V was silent but whatever. novels. Okay. NOCCO proud knows. Not, go problems in nocco promised. Okay. All right.

NBA football League Joel Anderson Luca China Lebron James Clippers David Duke Michael Jordan United States Knoxville Dallas Mavericks Ethan Strauss Josh Levin basketball Tony Cuco Georgia California Dallas
Hour 2 - Will Brinson talks NFL reaction, virtual fans in the stands reaction and #AskDarren texts

The Darren Smith Show

43:50 min | 8 months ago

Hour 2 - Will Brinson talks NFL reaction, virtual fans in the stands reaction and #AskDarren texts

"It's Friday on Kosta. Richards, it's a feeling. It Friday with no baseball. We'll just watch. Baseball documentaries logged on summer. Sosa mcgwire Will Air Sunday the director. Aj Schneck will tell us about it. At seven thirty tomorrow we get started six on. xtra thirteen, sixteen, two, three three. Hour number two. It is extra thirteen sixty FM one of three three in the iheartradio APP giveaways her back, coming up at some point this hour, or at least some point today. Jim Russell decide when exactly it is that he's going to give away a thirty dollar gift card to some Brera Mexican food, everybody at some bar. Amax is wishing you and your family the best. They want you to know they're there for you. SOMBRERO Mexican food is open for drive thru carryout and delivery. Get Your Sombrero Mexican fixed today more it's. It's Obrero Max Dot Com. That will be attached to the text contest. So as we really really appreciate all of you texting in for the last three months. We now want a reward you for doing so seven, zero, four, seven, zero first word of the text x, T R, a, that's x, T, R, a seven, zero, four, seven zero. We'll. Brinson is GONNA join US coming up here in about two minutes. I mentioned off the top of the show when it was that we officially were able to get up and running. That today is an interesting day in sports broadcasting I know not everybody's sitting around and waiting for L.. Grand Derby in SA- via. A couple of Spanish soccer clubs are just about to kick off. We put it on here on an IPAD and also on one of the television screens. This is league. This is the Spanish soccer league I mentioned that to my knowledge. This was going to be the first broadcast at least that I'm aware of. That fans are going to appear but CGI. So, we have just started watching I think they're going to do a minute of silence. I don't know where they're at. Mardi has the IPAD right in front of her, but we've at least seen here in the US on sports they are. They are going to go with the CGI fans inside of the. Says pige one, so I don't. I don't know if you have an initial opinion about this. If you want to describe it for the people who are unable to watch sports or couldn't care less. On your on your little ipad Darren and if you hadn't told me I, wouldn't, I would not have known now clearly the FA- the CGI fans Darren, they are not socially distancing impede that anyone's wearing a mask and no one is sitting six feet apart. But no I would not I wouldn't have no. No, they have not yet shown a close up. No. So this. This is for aesthetics. Close ups or anyone with a sign or any of that stuff? Yeah, I. Whatever else, and I'm looking at it now on the on the television, which is about five feet away, and I got a little bit of a glare, but you know if you were to just glance at it if it were on, and you were at a bar or out of house, and you were to just glance at it, you would say know. It looks like there's a lot of people who are in the stands who are who are cheering. The fans. It looks like they're not moving good. At least not that I can tell. It doesn't look like they have moving fans as part of the G I just looks like it somewhat overlapped on the telecast right. So again. It's interesting and it's just at the lower level, so I'm sure they're going to try to keep the camera angles down low, and and give you some sort of of visual. That is much different than what it is if you were actually in here and if I'm. If I'm watching later on. If I'm watching to sports far I'd be completely fine with it would wouldn't it wouldn't wouldn't to me at all yeah I'll take a screen shot and text out a picture, so people can say because I know not everybody in the middle of the day sitting around watching be in sports like soccer dorky. Let's say a lot of we'll Brinson. We'll Brinson. Picks PODCAST CBS sports joining us here on a Thursday afternoon. We'll Brinson good to speak with you. How is everything? Going on man how you doing well and feels like we haven't talked to in years, but I've been. It's been like eighteen days or something. Well. It's been a long time and you know eighteen days. Given our current situations. It feels like a lifetime, doesn't it? It sure does. The world has changed like in every eighteen days well, the world seems to change twice over again. I know I mean it's so. I'm in a jam music. As as many people know or or jam bands and you know oftentimes you take the whole premise of a lot of it. Is You take one? You're playing one song and you just sort of segue. Right into the next song without stopping well. Doing A. If you're creating a jam for for for this country right now, it'd be You know it'd be like a corona era. Protest me. I just didn't even start like there's like those stop between song. He was just straight into and it. It certainly does make things. It's it's it's hard to have you done the thing where you look back and look at your last normal photo yet, but It's a weird. It's a weird thing to see. The last normal photo I have not done that. What's that all about? Well, so go back to your look on your phone and scroll in your in your phone back until maybe know if you guys are like out and able to go out and about two. You're out taking pictures of bars again, but you know like my is I was getting Jonathan Jones CVs I was in Charlotte with my brother to see startled Simpson we met up. Jj Tobar grabbed a beer, and that's pictures from schedule, and then like the next Friday quarantine, and so like none of your pictures since then. Are you out with friends and stuff, so go back and look at your last normal set. All right. I will do that here in a little bit well. What is life like in North Carolina? We are not yet allowed back in bars. They've opened up restaurants to limited capacity beaches just within the last week you can go to the beach and you can actually stop and sit down and put down a beach towel and sit in a chair and all that sort of stuff. That's different than just about a week ago. What is lifelike across the country in North Carolina? Yeah, pretty similar. Actually. We've had beaches over for a little bit longer than that. We've been going down. you know I'm I'm lucky. My inlaws I mean it's my in laws, but they haven't played Just near Rightful Beach, my stepfather in law has a boat down there and they've been really careful about social distancing staying inside, but we'll go down and you know driver to the to the boat ramp and take the boat out and go to cruise around you don't stop and and do anything I mean like Memorial Day down. Here was wild. Man I mean it was. were out in full force a certain segment. Of the population was was running flags and felt like it felt like they had won a victory over the virus I'll let you draw your own conclusions as to discussing. where? We gotta take this virus. But I was pretty wide open, but it is it. Is Kinda Open? It's a little concerning, because if you look at the stats and the right now it appears to me I mean I you know I, I play with stats a lot, you know. Looking at you know you're, you're trying to identify who could be a breakout player like you tried to see trends and things that are underlying in statistics statistics that you read, and if I'm if I'm looking at these stats that we're seeing from North Carolina based on what's going on right now? It's hard not to look at this and see a situation where there's A. A second wave coming so I mean I. Don't know man. It's We'll see how this pans out I i. hope for hopefully it works out for everybody, but it certainly concerning I think and I wouldn't be surprised I. Hope we don't have to go back into lockdown, but man. It's hard not to look at it and think all right. There's something amiss here. Right, we'll Brinson. Picks PODCAST CBS sports joining us on extra thirteen sixty. Will you live in a different part of the country that is obviously, and I had said earlier, I know that there are states in the US that are more deep south than North Carolina my first marriage I got married in North Carolina back in two thousand and three, and it was really some of my earliest exposure. My ex wife was from Virginia her family. Family would travel down to the outer banks every single summer, so it just seemed like a place to go ahead, and it didn't work. Obviously, that's that really one of the first places that had any sort of exposure to the confederate flag and again it's a different world. They're not that you are different than than us, but here in southern California. It's just a different life and I wonder if you have a quick thought. On the representation of the flag and especially I. Know You're here for football, but just that. NASCAR's is really really big in North Carolina and some of the stuff that maybe you. You've heard on that subject if you wouldn't mind. Yeah I WANNA. First of all I would say everybody. Go Read Ryan McGee's piece on ESPN. If you haven't already about the confederate flag, and what I'll go in the removal of these NASCAR races I I think it's obviously a very good thing for Nascar to it is a a symbol of. I mean you know it was a simple? That is extremely. I mean it's obvious represents, but I would also say this. And I mean just yeah. Speaking, frankly from someone who grew up in the South I. think that. we are not. As young adults and kids in the south. And a white white kid, the south I don't think that. Maybe it was given. The same ended up I put this on my parents or teachers just. A society whole don't know that it was. It was given given the same weight it probably that was given elsewhere in the country or or the same weight that it should have been given and I'm not I think it takes? I think it takes becoming a little bit older and understanding things to really understand the weight, and the Gravitas of what the confederate flag really needs. I. Mean You read about it in school, I get it but I just I, just sort of wonder for teaching. All these things the right way, and but yeah I mean like clearly if you are if you're not a a white person in the south like the confederate flag is a is a very concerning thing and I think part of the problem that you have here to drive up ninety five from you know, say Ville to the Virginia border. You're going to see. What I think is the world's largest confederate flag. Enormous and somebody's bought a giant plot of land, so they can fly to confederate flag there and I think there are certain point you're not. You know you're not like. You're not doing that out of some sort of sense of pride near doing that, because it represents something that you want the world to know about you and I tend to think that what you're representing is not a positive message, and that is certainly concerning so i. I think I explained that correctly. I don't know I. It's it's I is deeply convoluted. Subject tend to think. It's the first. It is the very first place that I ever ever saw heritage. Not Hate and stuff doesn't happen anywhere else, and that's. That's what I mean. When convoluted like. If you grew up in inside of it, it's less you know like I. If you're if you grew up with something, just sort of always being there and being around like it's less shocking if you if you show up and you're like Whoa. What's what the Hell I mean that's that's like. I think that part of the problem is that and I grew up in a rural, not a rural part of North Carolina, but you're fairly rural and I mean it's. It's pretty commonplace. You perfectly frank. Yeah again and I mean. Are there people though who who you would say are sincere when they say it's about heritage and not hate because again. That's where I I saw that phrase and it sort of was an eye opener for me and I. Know that that's not what it is, but are there. People who you sense are actually sincere when they say that SORTA stuff. There are people who who sincerely take pride in. Their their family history and their relatives, but at the same time you know when you take pride in that, you're also taking ownership of. Certainly some some less positive things you know whether it's you know somebody who was a slave, holder or somebody who operated in the KKK or something like that I mean like it's not. It's not as cut and dry. It's like you're just a fan of the confederacy you are. You are inherently representing other things, and you know mean like. They went to war against the country, but they tried to the entire country and and win a war that you know I mean. Boil down, since simply is. For slavery purposes, and so yeah I. Mean it's pretty hard to justify I. Don't buy into it I. Don't buy into the heritage. Not Hate I. think that if you're looking for, you're looking for an excuse to to run the confederate flag up there at that point. We'll Brinson CBS sports six PODCAST, joining us next to thirteen sixty again, relying on you geographically close to the Carolina Panthers yesterday, there were these images that everybody saw Jerry Richardson Statue being fork-lifted the hell out of that place. How did that come about so quickly? And what's the reaction been like? This kind of interesting and it's but Jerry Richardson. Known as a You know. Jerry Jerry. Richardson falls into the older creepy white dude. Southern White Guy box if you're if you're trying to pin him into a certain demographic and. So Jerry when he was forced to sell the team. Put It in a clause when David tepper that that the statue had to remain in front of the stadium, and if you look at it, it's pandering statute of the planet in terms of like giving Jerry what he wants because he's. He's holding football out well, he he's not like like he's not like posing for football in the NFL glamour shot he's. He's giving football to the Carolinas. Get outta here. Bro, like and Apparently there are some clauses in the in the in the contract that would eventually allow for David Tepper to move on from the statute and I think one of them involves public safety. And with all of these statues, being toppled, the panthers were able to utilize that causes the hey. Look, we are worried. Somebody's GONNA come and topple the statue of Jerry Richardson who, while not a confederate, general or Christopher Columbus, certainly could symbolize something. You know p people color do not believe is a positive thing, and as such we consider it a public safety concern. Get this puppy out of here. There's I tweeted like if I if I bought a team from multiple billions of dollars and the statute of the old guy who's always team was in front of the stadium. The first excuse I got to move that statue I get the hell out there, and you can probably expect it not to come back one thing as as Joe, person of the athletic Carolina's noted. Is that by removing the statue? Ironically. I guess it now. It creates it. It removes INDEPEDANT FORCE FOR FANS to get into the stadium in a in a social distancing fashion. Interesting now where's The statue? You're going to go what becomes of it? It's probably like you know. Junkyard I don't I. Don't I don't know what to do with it. I would assume there's somebody with the panthers or somebody who David. Tepper has a storage facility where they can stash this giant statutes for a while, and it's not coming I would I don't think it's ever coming back I. Mean Look. Jerry left under a very dark cloud with all the things that he was alleged to have done in the office. And all the things you hear about whether it's you know This behavior towards women in the offices, behaviors towards people of Color in the office. Not It wasn't. It wasn't good at all. I mean everybody heard it, and so it it it behooves David Tepper I think to get hit to remove. Pulling is far as far away as possible, but I don't know how you store giant statue, because this a big statue but I don't think we'll see a comeback attention. Yeah I would go drop it off on his front lawn. I don't know where it is to Jerry Richardson lives today, but I would have. That brought right there to his front lawn and just leave it there in the middle of the night. I Love I. Love I think it's a great idea. Yeah, you have to be careful if you're David temporary because if you say, we're moving out of public interest, public safety, you WanNa make sure that you don't. Like then turn around and and and then like the. Just kidding public safety we had, we didn't care got out of one way or the other. You know what I mean like you gotTa. Make sure you don't you? Don't screw it up and then violate the contract. Where little bit less than? A week away from from seeing Roger Goodell's video statement in which she essentially repeated what it was that many very popular NFL players had to say about social justice that was week. Go tomorrow, so we're going on six days haven't heard much. Really haven't heard much from the Commissioner's office haven't heard much from a lot of very very well known NFL owners. What is the sense that you are getting of when we will hear anything of significance from the NFL ownership or from the League office soon? Yeah, that's the point there in on the repeating things I sort of got lost, but the he did mention cabinets name. It's like well listen, there's players at least the video said. We want to hear you say these exact words and then Roger. Goodell said those exact words. And then He. Got Off the CUE cards. Right I mean they were like we want you to say this. We'll say this losing this was this Roger don't read those things instead those exact thing so i. don't I. Didn't get why people are sort of parsing statement. If he came up with it, he was reacting and responding to his players. I think that the NFL will probably. Does anybody luckier, this league I mean the pandemic hits, and it's the draft and free agency, and all that and you can conduct all your normal business and be that hard. It'd be hard the focus of the NFL. You know without having to force people to go back into the workplace, and then the riots and the protests the protest. You shouldn't say rights protests start, and there is a question about Roger Goodell comes out and does his thing drew. BREES does staying SORTA get everybody off their back onto their side and now? The NFL is we're as we're and you know? The the race? Issues in this country are not going to just go away overnight, but now the NFL is entering this month long period where it is very very quiet, and so while you might have lots of players speaking out, you know you can I take. You can kinda get away with it if you're owners in the League office being be like Hey, this sort of a dead period. We're Kinda shutting down, etc, etc, so I think. I just think they're going to go dark until you know training camp, time comes around. I would agree preseason games. Are you expecting? to think. Okay? That'll be. That'll be interesting and I wonder I. In the League I think at some point is is going to have to address. The issue of kneeling and I wonder if they'll just roll with it and and try to decide for them. If the center has moved in this country in a certain direction as it relates to that type of protest, will they say well? It's more beneficial for us to be on that side of it, or will they stick a finger in the eye of the president and everybody who objects to to that form of protest? Will they keep the players in the locker rooms I mean. Do you see them at some point I would guess they're going to have to address this right well, even if they're entering what? What is traditionally the the quiet time on the calendar? Yeah, I don't think they're going to have to address the protest stuff until we get to the training camp and when you get to training camp, you know assuming that we don't have a second wave of the virus, and all that and everybody's able to operate as fairly close to normal and the reporters at the practices. All these guys are going to be asked about kneeling and asked about what they plan to do. And at that point I think things will come a lot more aggressive in terms of being able to get responses from NFL teams and whatnot so. yeah, I guess what I'm saying. Is that I just I? Just think timing works out for them where they don't have any answers in you know in the immediacy like they just they can sit back and be quiet and sort SORTA. Let things play out and then gauge where everything is, and hopefully if they're smart and knows usually, they're not. They'll formulate some kind of plan is we get a little bit closer to the regular? Regular season. If that point, you can say okay. Here's what we're. GonNa do, but it would behoove them obviously to get their ducks in a row and be prepared to you know, have player be prepared for what the players are going to do. Because it would be stunning, the players didn't Neil and be prepared to have a plan of action in place for how you want to handle these things as the season gets closer. Well. It's always great to speak with you. Thank you for joining us. We do wish you and yours all the best and we thank you for for taking the time to join us and enlighten us on many different issues. I don't know if I smart Karen and I probably wouldn't funniest. Usually am or it's funny game. I guess but okay well. Let me give you one more opportunity than. I am currently watching A. Soccer match in which fans have been computer generated into the stands I. Know You're not watching. This I posted a still picture on twitter. If you want reference it at some point, do you have a thought on whether or not? If you couldn't play in front of fans, what would will Brinson like to see? Would you like to see empty seats? Would you like to see tarps, or would you like to see CGI fans? Wow, that's very bizarre very clearly, not fans to. Right now. It looks like like a like a painting. Yeah, no, it looks like it looks like a very. It looks like dots. Painted other I guess I would I think if I were picking. I would say if we're going. To do football. Let's let's hear. Let's hear what goes on. In the you know in the, let's hear what goes on behind the St Louis I wanNa Hear I. WanNa hear what's going on near the line of Scrimmage I. WanNa hear everything that happens over the course of the game. I don't know crowd always piped in Maybe I find tarting up the seats because I. Think the empty seats will be weird. Depending on how many fans are allowed in? But generally I think kind of let it go as naturally as possible that that's what would behoove de nfl the most. Okay all right I like it. When we got months to to sort through a lot of this stuff by the way I, mean as we said spoken to like eighteen days, and it feels like eighteen years. We've got plenty of time. Be well well. We always appreciate your. Thank you we'll Brinson. Pick six. PODCAST CBS SPORTS DOT COM. Yeah, I, mean I. I sorta sitting here I'm trying to think of the style of painting. Right like there's a very specific style of painting where you just sort of take the paintbrush and smudge it up against the canvas, and it sort of looks like that to me. Maybe it's just this type of CGI again made. It anyway, but you're studying like if you're if you're. If you're in the sports far watching casually Lewis notices, but differences make. Why are we trying to appeal to that? No I'm just saying because it would look stranger if it's empty. It is nothing about. We know that it's empty. No I'm I'm just saying you know you're all know we all know this, but you went in with a preconceived notion. You'RE GONNA hate it, no matter what under are saying if you're just kind of glancing up like. Would you really notice? Just glancing well, they're also having weird issues with it. It keeps turning on and off so now it's just becoming flat. Affect distracted flashes with Tarp here and that right? has done that no I. It just ensures you an empty standard and show full stand. It blinks like a traffic signal. Now I will say just to prove that I'm not completely closed minded in all of this. I didn't think I was GONNA like it with no fans and I actually did when I got up that first weekend and I've watched since. Obviously Guy Right. Okay, but think of it this way. I don't I mean I don't stay up late, but when I do or what I've seen clips from Stephen Colbert. John Oliver or Saturday night live or any of these shows you're used to seeing in front of a live audience I you like. I got used to it and it's money and. I think we can get used to it without having to put in laugh tracks or or put. Dobie images of people out there in the I mean. I've gotten used to to the way it works in comedy. And I think we'll. We'll get used to this if it's sports without fans but. Maybe maybe I stand in the minority temporary. It's temporary I'm okay with that for the next year. For as long as we have to go ahead and do this. Yeah, I just think that this is again and they're not. This is the first, so you would expect that. They're going to have a cadillac. They'll tighten it up right and every league is now working off. This model I'll really was others in other I wish I could have just shown. You just showed on a long ball. They just showed it was empty. And then the fans pop back in, so it's just coming distracting. Anyway back at. Cannons coming up today. Right at three, not a word yet from Jerry Jones, the most powerful owner in the NFL on the racial injustice his players face. Why is that? We'll discuss at three on extra thirteen, six, one, three three FM. Right show fifty-seven halfway through. From the wine cave with you on a Thursday. That's right. It was three months ago tonight that Gavin newsom issued the very first stay at home orders in the state of California. Is that right three months ago today? Yes, it is now we are in phase. Two plus. Now. We're not still to okay. Two plus plus with more stuff happening tomorrow ours wineries things like that. The opening dates now for the zoo. Park opening out and I'll mission. Let's see Balboa Park opening tomorrow cracked. Sounds right, yeah. Funny yesterday I made this reference this on the on the Kogo show last night. That you talk about doing two different shows on two different stations, and you spend three hours over here doing sports every single day, and then an hour doing what is more San. Diego magazine than hard news stuff. If you've never listened to that show, which is fun. It's available in podcast format. Go to the iheartradio APP but I. I pointed this out the Jack on yesterday's show. We did a segment with Jeff Rothman. WHO IS THE PRESIDENT? The chapter of the California Restaurant Association? That's. On a sports show then we talked with Dr Richard Lap Chick who was tangentially related to sports, obviously, because you meals, activists, but a human activists whose specialty is in race and sports, diversity, and ethics and hiring and gender, equality and things like that. And then last night on, Kogo. We did a segment. On the Sports Arena and we spoke with Warren Smith. Who's the president and founder of San Diego loyal I was like. Wow, you talk about just. Taken the two shows and the two formats and mixing it up. We're doing SORTA news. He stuff over here sort of sports over there. Was the basis of that I've returned the all. Return to the US l., some details weren't Smith actually had a couple of interesting details that is shared with us last night. He told us that San Diego loyal. Now you might have heard that major league soccer in the NBA or going to Orlando. He said that they pitched the league the United Soccer, League on San. Diego be in a hub for all of the US clubs I. Don't know about all the clubs, but it may be the western conference clubs. Thirty, five. So. Yeah. I don't know that it was all of them, or if it was just some western conference clubs, we did want to get lost in the details, but he said he proposed that to the League and it was kicked around a little bit and other owners in other states said well, we might be moving faster than. Etcetera Etcetera Etcetera, so they decided against it, but your president thought hey, that'd be a really good thing for our economy. Potentially if we were able to. Bring all these different clubs here which fill up rooms, things like that. Get San Diego on a national platform I realized that second division soccer. It's not exactly the NFL NBA or NHL, but still the idea was put out there Warren Smith also said that they have drawn it up to see what. Torero stadium will look like with. Physical distancing in place he figures that capacity is six thousand plus somewhere between six thousand and sixty one hundred. He told us that. They figure with proper physical distancing. They estimate they can get twelve hundred fans inside a Torero stadium. If they're going to go back and play there, which is still enough because they don't know, they don't know that the campus isn't GonNa have. Things that it to be concerned with or if they really really feel like they're not gonna be able to get fans back in there. Maybe they'll go someplace else. Because Y Y play. They love it there, but still what's the point so if you can find a venue? Probably the Olympic training I would think we'd fans Noel. Without both broadcasts, so the broadcast capabilities that has to be factored in since they have a local television deal and they also have a national television deal. But it was just interesting because again. I say this, not because I'm trying to convert you all. It'd be nice if you would convert, but it's not my purpose. It's more just point out what's happening and I would think that if you're doing the physical distancing map thing for us, l.. You're probably doing it for Major League Baseball I'm sure that people who work at Petco Park are probably spending time thinking well. How many fans is it that? That, we can actually get in here. Physically distance from one another you at pointed out former Padre CEO current Miami Dolphins CEO Tom Garfinkel has done something like this with hard rock stadium in Miami. Yes, so it's just interesting. Months ago has been working on a plan to accommodate perhaps fifteen thousand pounds. This is how it's GonNa. Look, this is. How would you just concessions how you're going to go ahead and order your food your beverage, but. They've been working in a past. It's interesting you bring that up with Major League baseball, because it hasn't part of the whole delay been about the gate, the owners will not receive because of no fence right I mean it almost sounds like planning to play their season without fans. Yeah, and is that accounted Is that something that they've talked about if we are able to get? A percentage of fans. Well, what does it look like team by team? See? This is the problem that that is really really hard to to explain to people that it sounds good in theory that you would just have revenue split. But. You don't know what the revenues you don't know what revenue oils way. What does not only that, but you don't even know what revenue is it's it's an impossible conversation for any of us to have who work in. Radio or imprint, or any fans to have because you guys just none of us know what revenue is for instance. The dodgers make a killing on that parking lot. It's a it's a killing some the big market teams what they make from their television networks in New York in Chicago. It's. Is that revenue that that gets somehow split operas that revenue? That's just. The whole concept of revenue is totally misleading. Because you don't know what revenue is, revenue also is well, we've we've bought this team and we've. found. And we built a parking structure next door and we've built a village coming up right down there. We have a hotel that somehow attached. You know what I'm saying like. You just you can't start talking about revenue and don't when it's. It's quite literally impossible to know what the revenue is. It just it cannot be done I mean 'cause they will not tell you everything that considered revenue in these conversations, so I know it sounds good, and it sounds simple and yeah. Let's put all the money in the pot and we'll split it. Now. I mean it just. It doesn't work for for for myriad reasons like. You split it up amongst players, your highest paid earner versus your lowest paid earner. Especially in an expanded roster, situation. Plus there's just there's there's just no way for anybody to truly know what revenue is because they're never going to be open and honest with all of the things that they would consider to be revenue. How are you? GonNa do the math. On Club that owns twenty percent of a regional sports network like. How do you do that? So does that count does that, not count? Does some of the building Ansari structures around the? Does that count like I don't know it's just it's. It's it's hard. It's it's not just hard. It's impossible so based on that Darren based on that assessment. You're saying, go and prepare for what Dennis Lynn referred to as a nuclear option of something between forty eight and fifty games. Just because if you're talking about revenue split, you can't agree and no one can agree what the parameters should be. Then forget about it for unless there's an absolute lack of trust which is understandable based on that. Forget it. Fifty Games get ready. Unless the owners are willing to bend on prorated salaries, and maybe some deferred payments, and how you chop up the pot for postseason revenue would be different, but in terms of just like. Hey, let's just take all of the money. That just doesn't work, you know. The owners have been very very creative in how it is that they define revenue. So I hope that makes sense, and it's not just me. Peddling again for the owners it's it's just are for the players. I should say. It's just that it's. It's too hard. It's it's impossible all right when we come back your text messages. We're going to give away a thirty dollar gift cards of some barrel Mexican food, seven, zero, four, seven, zero first word of the text x, T R, a your tax messages coming up next on extra Teen Sixteen FM will two three. Is it abstract art. Is that what I'm trying to say? It's been a long time since I took an art class. Fans look like in side of. The? Today in severe in Spain. So abstract nobody here took an art class now I did. Okay, you're the expert. Then it's abstract. Yeah, definitely is, it's abstract, right? Because you can't quite make out the images it just. Looks like somebody took the paintbrush and dipped it in a couple of different colors paint, and just splotch to canvas, and we're calling the. Fans computer generated fans. Like you! Don't like it just. Don't you want to go with the tarp? You've adjusted to watching games with no fans, not as weird as you thought. No, so you find this stranger, yes. Well if they perfected. More that it worse. These. At least here for I know that this is abstract art. Cave about getting replaced yeah. I'm worried about the fans being replaced like I said I don't want them. Saying on some random Wednesday night when there's ten thousand people in a baseball game that they're just going to fill in the seats with a bunch of fans and you go. Oh, that looks like a lot of fun, and then you buy a ticket you go. There's no one there has done there. It's false advertising. I don't like it. I eight five eight number tax in seven, zero, four, seven, zero. When the going gets tough, the tough gets going. Eight five eight number. Yeah, I just heard the best four minutes in the history of this program. First four minutes of the show. We were not on the air. The six one nine Texan I never realized how bad your introduction music wasn't. Until I had to listen to it for five minutes straight, so we started talking earlier in the show and I'm doing my regular bit. You can listen here and you can there, and you can listen, and let's say the load of this, and let's say a lot of that and we can hear the Music Jim Census text message that just had five five question marks in it. As if to say, where are you guys? and. We didn't realize that there is a problem over here, so we figured it out the call and we had the reset stop and it was a mess that you best for minutes. Apparently, that's what somebody tax six nine never. Yo Darren Chila. We love you. We don't care about technical glitches. Where's the Pala pollyannaish optimism? That's reserved for other people. Doesn't apply to me. Does it apply to the person in the mirror? Optimism on wet? Optimists generally speaking. You think so. Know. I'd say that's the balance of the show. What do you think? I'll pass the El. Paseo uncomfortable question on the Jim. No. Don't do that to me. I would say I'm always searching for for optimism. I'm searching for I. Don't always find it I'm not perfect. Okay. I would say in life. Yes, in sports, not so much, but but that's sports. Threes because usually if you're a sports fan, a sports observer, there's far more misery in there is joy. That's x number dismiss. Show is Mardi greatest five minutes in radio. You're opening hacksaw. His best five minutes and sports shout out to Andy In me off the Ledge today and ready for Beers. GRUB. Seven six zero number. We don't get enough seven six zero numbers. On that. Maybe, maybe in a couple of months, hey, Darren I know it's stressful for you, but it's actually Kinda Fun and interesting when things don't go, according to plan at the wind cave, it humanizes you. Guys are doing their live in challenging circumstances, and it was cool to hear the entire intro song. Six one nine number America is Darren. Prefer the Fedex Guy with. The breathtaking Heine delivering his weekly. Or the UPS boy band guide delivering his Yoga Man Tights. The Fax guy is usually gone like they leave the box. Yesterday though. Did you have to sign for that? No, no, they just left it there. They locked loudly and they were gone. Nine. Four nine number I thought Keith Wa hated the padres. No just Trevor Hoffman apparently six nine number does Martin Oh. He doesn't hate travelers. Does is a hall of. We're day to flex on. Six hundred number, two smarter prefer the host with the Yoga Pants and technical issues or the reporter with the whisk broom. Mustache can't find the mute button shot. To the United Nations ups drivers thirty one he's been. The hacksaw has husband. The Star Hacksaw has has. Unknowing Star of zoom meetings. Hacksaw! GotTa you gotTa turn off the Mute Button so special. Shout out to the moderator. Daring Fini there and Phoenix who works for the padres? Lee! We'll hear that coming up next six nine number. Hi Darren. CGI looks like red. Confetti Six number now chargers will have fans hash taxi jockey six one nine. Hey, Darren sorry had the job of major dues which caused the automated litterbox to overheat, which in turn caused the power to go out for the first four minutes of your show signed your roommate kitty cat shoutout to one shooting par on the boomers. Miniature Golf, course. Six! Hundred nine number texts in says watching the league match. Virtual crowd makes me feel like I'm playing ninety soccer video game. Yeah, I agree. Six hundred ninety s Michaud is Mardi prefers sunbathing at the beach with a beer or sunbathing at Murph for padres double. fisting like she did back in one, thousand, nine, hundred five me. Did I miss those days badly? Shout to one arguing that Ralph. macchia knows karate in real life by the way I think he does know karate and rely at least that was always the rumor that he actually was a block. Six, hundred ninety s Michaud does Martin for Maverick Rice. Men Shout out to the boy band having a meet and greet at my cats in IB. CASS Six hundred number your listeners should crowd funday quote mortars roommate. Fund I'll donate five bucks a month forever. We just need a couple of hundred listeners per month to do the same. No more x-files milk Marty's countertops. Housekeeping. Thank you for Rep in the six one, nine, eight, five eight, and the seven zero, if I were to offer you money to come over and just cleaned my place one time. How much how much would it cost? To find cleaning clean and the clean my place the way you clean your place. To kitchen, you're over to cleaner toilet. No, my room is hey. Listen my my my areas rate. The kitchen. And her bathroom. How much? Box. That's not bad two hours. Two Hours I. Remember I can do in two hours into hours. I'll put on my gloves. On what you couldn't, I do okay. Six hundred number. Hey, Marty, What year is your Tacoma truck? I? Still drive my two thousand pre runner that I brought brand new and September of one, thousand, nine, hundred, nine, just running like a rolex. That's why the commas take no bleep about love your truck deep cleaner. Not My my truck is so clean you you'd be amazed. It's a two thousand and six eight, five eight. It's a bummer. Work gets in the way of listening to this show. I would agree with us. Nine five one number Darren. Your and listen to you since you first started the other station. Can you please talk with somebody about playing the same commercials over and over? Get on the APP? It's very annoying. Jim! The. Let's get that situation. Taking care of I'm on it. Eight five eight number I think what's Martha kicks a roommate to the curb. She should prowlers available. A minimalist never be home seems like the perfect roommate. Now an eight five eight number says I heard all four minutes online. True where we were restraining the first four minutes of the show or somebody screwing with. Cursing then. Like they heard. The music. I did not good question eight, five, eight optimistic Darren. Come on, you spend thirty seconds complaining about how you just cost the show a Union Tribune award. Fedex driver run down the annoying ups. Boy Ban on the eight while Munching Kit Kat. Has Become Fedex, versus ups or fair. The cartel I don't think it's a secret. That I think it's a war. Fedex ups I am an optimist, just because I get frustrated when things don't go I'm also a perfectionist. When we come back, you're going to hear a lot of audio and listen. There's some stuff there that some of you will care about like, is you? WanNa hear the scouting director talk about the players taken in the draft. And then there's the comedy Darren of Hacksaw being told UN mute his microphone that we're really here for. We're really here for that, so we'll hear some of that when we come back our number three next.

NFL Darren Chila League Brinson soccer North Carolina US football Jerry Richardson David tepper Jim Russell Jerry Jerry baseball CBS Virginia panthers San Diego Roger Goodell California director
Marc Spears Talks Social Injustice, Police Brutality, and Hope for the Future

The Full 48

1:23:01 hr | 7 months ago

Marc Spears Talks Social Injustice, Police Brutality, and Hope for the Future

"For businesses around the world, today isn't a restart. It's a rethink. That's why they're partnering with IBM to Change How they work from supply chains to customer service. Let's put smart to work visit IBM DOT com slash smart to learn more. Discipline. Forty eight Howard Beck senior NBA writer for bleacher report. It is day one hundred and four of NBA Limbo I'm changing the name. It was NBA lock lockdown. I'm switching to limbo now. Because we're no longer in lockdown, really across the country in the NBA. It's it's kind of slowly unlocking. teams are going to start going to Orlando soon all that stuff, so we're just in limbo. On an MBA limbo now day one zero four. That's about as long as the usual offseason I think it's. It's still feel surreal. My guest today is a senior writer for the undefeated. My fellow alumnus of the Los Angeles Daily News. Also my fellow San Jose, but he's a member of the Union. High School districts Hall of fame and I'm not so he'll always have that over me Marc Spears. How are you sir? Among recommend new for the San Jose Eastside District Hall of fame as we speak man. Get! Nudity service in the fact that you went to protest. Take that finally the that. Gets you, but you'RE GONNA have to fly to San Jose down on off trying to get on a plane at this moment for the for the ceremony. I'm not getting on any planes anytime soon. My friend if I can help it. Apparently San Jose just forgot about I've been gone too long. You know you're still there in the bay area. I went to Davis Than L.. A. The New York like it's fine I'm outta sight Outta, mind. It's okay. I can be happy more more your hall of fame. Lloyd tears isn't there? He made it. So the people that don't understand the San Jose side unions high school district is me and Howard both went to school within that district definitely in different neighborhoods. e- caused me hill because I went to Andrew Hill and I come S. T. because he went to Santa. Teresa Lloyd Pierce to coach. The hawks acting went to a high school called Yearbook Boina. and. So, they have a hall of fame for the School district. which I'm in in Lloyd Pierces then. We gotta get Howard hanging my head and save on how getting in south. I it gives me something to shoot for. Give me something to aim for. Man. I'm really happy to have you on. We've been friends forever and I'm not had you on my podcast yet. Which is I. Don't know bad oversight by me. I guess I. Guess we get to talk enough anyway as we world has to be apparel for you to have your yourself. Is that what? No because somebody could talk about the world being in peril me. Know. That hurts man. I mean there's at least a sliver of truth because there's Parsa. Part part of this is the moment we are in the things we were talking about and writing about and you and can discuss a little bit, too. Because he's the kind of things I'll just I'll say this now. We'll come back to it. Put put a push pin in this one, but like these are the kinds of things that even when. With longtime friends. We don't often discuss. And occurs to me at a time. I guess that we are all discussing this all the time and so two it. It underscores the fact that yeah like these are conversations. We just don't have or as you know as Butler. Put recently when. He's written about this that these are the uncomfortable conversations right so We'll go, but I will say this. After I just gave your hard time I'm GonNa. Give you a compliment. Our back before George Floyd. was somebody that always wrote about and always highlighted. Racial injustices police brutality. You or certainly one of the few white colleagues or even colleagues period because I'm not gonNa to be completely honest, not all black reporters writing about it either. Before then that actually. Would ride about it with tweet stories that would make highlight of. It would say that this is wrong. where I would say the majority of my white colleagues. And a lot of my colleagues of color. Even a lot of the unfortunately A. Contingent on my even black reporters. Friends were were didn't don't write about it. We're uncomfortable writing about. It didn't care to write about it. And you one of the people that actually, if I I knew you know I, always call myself A. People view me as a screaming Negro Mba writer. Always yelling this and yon about that but. Our knew that. If I had wrote something significant, there was a good chance at Howard. Beck would re tweet it. And, so for that I appreciate you are thank you. I do think perhaps growing up in San Jose, where we both grew up, which was really diverse. Perhaps helped you gain. The importance of Of that during your youth, so but you know you definitely deserve some Kudos. For being, wanted people that. Cared. is down for the cause. An wasn't scared to. Put Your name on the line to say so for that. Thank you know I i. that's really Nice Mark. I appreciate all that and you have chat about that on on occasion and just the way our business. Really store. WAS THAT JUST TO BE? Yeah. The list you're on in in everybody can hear it now. Give a shit. But deliver your own is really really short. And it's changed, but the list. Iran was really really short I mean. I will say this. You know I've had the luxury in some ways you my my my views are my used. My perspective is my perspective, and and whatever it's shaped by. You know I, you know. Maybe it's all those things. Maybe it's grown up with. It's other things but I will say that. You and I both grew up in this business as as mainstream newspaper guys who had to hold a lot of our our. And other things in check Because in in this is a lot of pushback in this right now, but in newspapers in a lot of mainstream journalism. You know the the goal of objectivity means you do not put your own views out there at all. In the twitter age, it became an even tensor kind of thing, and certainly my time at the New York Times, which has the highest bar for this stuff? I really had to watch myself, and I will just say that while my views, my perspective. My just everything my world has changed in the seventies that have been a bleacher report. I've had more latitude to be able to express a lot of that on twitter. Some summit somewhat in the stories I choose to not the Times would have ever frowned on any of those things. I just think I. Can put more of myself into it and be out there more and whatever I'm tweeting or re tweeting or thing like it doesn't. It doesn't take long to look down my time when figure out where my values are I. Don't think on a number of issues. But I will say that part of that is is I'm in a place right now where they have embraced and supported that certainly I've never had a single. Put a little bit of pushback like no one has said anything to me before in my time about what tweeted. And there was when I want to write about the the decline in the number of black head coaches in the NBA whatever it was five years ago four years ago. They supported that so so Kudos to. A I'll say about that too I always. There's ways of saying things. I, I don't think I've ever been. At ESPN obviously working for undefeated. You're not silence. Talk about race, so you? Even at Yahoo I did a little bit of it wanted to do more. Which is why ended up? You know where I am, but I think in terms of. One thing that always stood out to me. That still bothered me to this day. I was at the Denver, Post. And they let me do some things that were that were great like I went and interviewed A. the first black player in NBA history, and actually went to Crossville, Tennessee spent a couple of days with them in wrote that story and has one of my. Favorite stories of all time. But I do remember writing a story about the lack of black players planning MBA. I mean sorry. White players planning NBA and How the number kept drop in. I think my inspiration. Right that story was there was these constantly these stories about the numbers of black player dropping in baseball. I had nobody black playing baseball and I'm like well. Why doesn't anybody ever talk about the lack of white American players in the NBA? Is that number certainly dropped dramatically since. The eighties, but a lot of ways. It's the European guys have. Kept, that story from being written because physically it looks like it's similar when Precisely the same yeah. Actually in terms of white Americans, it's it's very low. So I remember doing this story, I thought was really good That nobody was talking about like early two thousands with the Denver Post. War Me in an. How're you know this as a writer? Man Like you're trying to draw people? To Your Story And I wanted to come in with a big punch. By shake you make you read it, so First sentence was the white American. NBA Player is now an endangered species. That was my first six rows. They changed. They changed it and editor like took that sentence out. Never gave me an. Explanation why that might lead was taken out and put this whole flower elite about how Kiki Vandeweghe. was playing basketball on hood as a kid. And that's how I learned to get good in that I remember, I was like. At, a big argument with one of my editors over it in a refuse to change back. And so that like you know that that kind of goes back to. Why I think diversity is important in the newsroom. Not just as reporters, but people behind the scene, so other people could have made. Decisions because. I think if I would have been a baseball story with a lead that said you know the. Black. Crow, baseball players endangered species mainly baseball. They would around with it without blanket. So you know that that that still sticks with me to this day, but In terms of like social media you. Always feel like there's ways of saying things. By. You don't have to be angry every time you tweet. But stats speak for themselves. Are tweet people. I do to be honest. I do try not to get into politics. Much you get into politics more, I do maybe. Yeah, I try to stay away from that part because I've kind of been told that. In terms of race stuff. I have no problem speaking about that. Saying that in I've had black riders say well I. Don't WanNa do that 'cause. I, want somebody get mad at me year. I people too big. Say whatever they want, but I'll certainly speak the truth on that all the time and a lot of times I try to really be careful and eloquent. What my word! So if I say you know Hey Detroit Pistons lead me rose go, and the remaining people six people that are in executive officer white. Males factual. Is Not an opinion it's. And I think a lot of times. It's funny because you can't. Debate facts. Like the facts are the facts. And I kinda feel like in a lot of ways. You could hit. Hit people harder when when you have numbers behind it when you have. Facts behind it like. The actual actually true and you can look it up and. That just goes back to me Santa's ways sampans. For businesses around the world. Today isn't a restart. Rethink. That's why they're partnering with IBM. Retailers are keeping their systems up. As millions of orders move online call centers are using IBM Watson to manage an influx of customer questions with AI and solutions built on the IBM cloud or helping doctors care for patients remotely today. We're rethinking how business moves forward, so let's get to it. Let's put smart to work visit, IBM. Dot Com slash smart to learn more. At a lot of different ways, you can take discussion Martin and there's so much like you and I can talk about. We could be your brow ours, but let's talk about a couple of things that are going on right now that you have addressed and that touch on a lot of what we just kind of went through. And let's actually let's let's start with offices. Because notably grows recently that the Pistons to work for the NBA, but at the top level. It's interesting so the Pistons of Higher Troy Weaver. Lot of people felt long overdue for him to get that shot as GM and you tweeted last week. There are now ten black GM's or Jim Slash had a basketball opposite in the NBA and I actually think that ten. Let's the off the hook. Because, I'm going to go, I don't let me go through the list. Real quick because I want to get into this, I do want to discuss this. The GM title has gotten a little water down in the NBA The last ten years maybe last five years or more, so where we used to have GM's and assistant GM's and you knew the GM was always the guy in charge. If you said GM that was the guy who ran basketball ops now, the GM is often reporting to a team president, so for instance Trajan Langdon who's on your list of ten reports to David Griffin with the Pelicans that and the others, so the list is and Tony Oh yeah. TORONTO. Keep going right I, so we got right. Brian Right with the Spurs but I think most people believe it's still popping. Are See who who are running things there and that's I. Think it's accurate and that's fair. Messiah Jerry is in charge in Toronto. Kobe Waldman is in charge in Cleveland. Although the owner, there is a pretty big meddler Marc Evers Lee in Chicago is reporting to a tourist Karna Silvis. Elton brand is is is this is the last stop. Philly Scott Perry is reporting now to Leon Rosen in New York so you really only have out of the ten that you named in your tweet last week. They're only five guys who are running basketball. Absolutely you know five black men running baseball ops who are? The ultimate authority there. Yeah and that's Masai Weaver, James Jones. Elton Bread Koby Altman so i. don't know that that's probably up a couple of a little bit from a couple years ago, but it's not by much and black coaches. There are eight right now. But that includes Jacques van. WHO's an interim in? It hasn't much changed since I wrote the story whatever four or five years ago when I wrote about how had come down from fourteen, which was the all time high down to somewhere in the seven and nine, so it's always hovering. The seven to nine range saw open into question why why important 'cause I get pushed back when I bring this up and I'm sure you get twice as much. Why is this important? What part, why is it important that we even highlight how many front offices have a a black or black team president, or how many black head coaches there are? because League's seventy five percent black. So. That's always that's always my we. If if the edit the NHL which I'm sure, it's at least seventy five percent white. If the majority of their coaches were black I wonder how why America will fill about that. They would think it was strange at a minimum right. They would say that that's curious, but I I think over history were so used to. Having white men in charge of black man like you know. Society is almost like used to it, but. The fact that you're having a league that is so predominantly black. But most of the people that are running a league. Starts, with the owners. Predominantly white ownership. You know that that certainly plays a role in it and. I, don't know if that would change in. Nevada fans majority of fans are white, so that certainly has a role in the two, but. When you have a players that seventy five percent black. As a significant figure. Then like talking about numbers again, that's a significant figure. And then you even got to go into. How many of those are former players? Lied so it for basically tells any black player NBA that your chances work at a front office. A coach, probably pretty, slim. And in a lot of ways I think that for there to be changed, the stars have to start talking about it. The players that have platforms like the the players that whole gotTa. Start talking about it, so you know on a no going to Orlando. Players Association you know has some things that they wanNA. Bring to the NBA in terms of you know social justice in. Keeping the the the Horn Lau. In the Post George Floyd era. In. I've been told that that's one of the things they WANNA work. Work toward is diversity in the front office. Diversity in a coaching staff, but I I think it also has to trickle down to. The PR staffs the majority of the. People running these teams are white males. Majority trainers the majority of the jobs. So I think it has to be like you said it's. Sometimes some of those jobs might be a little window-dressing. Yes, under GM with the Spurs, but I got a report to guys, or are you really to GM or? That's just your title. It sounds good like it. You know what I mean and I'm glad you pointed it out. So with the League that. Is Predominantly Black? I think it's a shame bad. The representation in terms of the leadership positions into positions of power within the League are not as pretty shameful. It's It's interesting, too, because it's not like they're not aware of this. At the League level, the NBA never tried to move toward a Rooney rule like the NFL had and look. There's pluses and minuses to that and we can debate whether or not the Rooney rule has been. It's obviously not been effective. But. Like, the NBA NBA Debbie does not want address this one when I again when I did the story. has been several years now but I think any any that I've seen since then they. You know they've got some platitudes that they can. Say about here our goals. Here's how we've set up this committee and here's our training former players, and here's how the things that we're trying to do, too. But. It hasn't resulted in anything like it's not his not substantially changed. I've been currently for twenty three years. You're what BAC twenty years or so so on a on a dot. I don't think this changing. Yeah and so in the United doing this. It has not changed dramatically. They've been some higher points and some lower points along the way whether we're talking about head coaches or GM slashing president, but it has not meaning fleet changed in a in a positive direction. Now that said the NBA always gets high marks on the racial diversity. grades that RICHARD LAP puts out every year, and they do well on in a number of areas, and I think overall representation. If you count assist, both coaches act layer that result on a report to which is about to come out. I think on Wednesday. Like really pulled back the layers on it. And I've talked to. Mark, Tatum Deputy Commissioner Mba in-depth about it or Stewart. Ruined diversity and inclusion vice president for the NBA in-depth about it and they're. They're trying man like anytime. There is an opening. They reach out the teams they tell them about. Candidates that are more than qualified for the job. That could be interested in GE. but that doesn't mean that teams are looking at it like there wasn't any media heat that I put on a Chicago Bulls whatever's Lee gotten higher I know. Do you think that made a difference I think so? I think they they were put on. Notice I think the tweet. I put out about a pistons. With them on notice because there were a couple of guys that were interviewed or supposed to get interviewed at dinner. Get interviewed after that George. Fluid Cup happened a couple of days later. I. Think they thought you know what this doesn't look good. So that's why I do think for us is immediate. It's important. To publicly put teams out there. You Know I. Love My Dunleavy. The Nice Guy Great Guy but he basically got the the warriors assistant GM job like handed to them. I Love Luke Walton, but he got the coach job in Sacramento like basically handed to like nobody else's really. Considered an I know the kings are doing great things diversity. I know the warriors are doing great things in the community and stuff like that and the is a champion for for equal rights and everything, but I do think. They dropped the ball on those occasions. In there should have been a more diverse look at candidates, and if that's your got actually got. That's fine, but I think a lot of times. If you bring in a diverse group of candidates, give them a chance. Ownership might be surprised like hey man. I. Know You like this dude able. This guy over here ready these. In so. You know all the teams and I'm not just trying to beat up the warriors in the kings or the Bulls in Detroit, but like all the teams share some blame in this, and they all need to be held accountable and. No I'm not. A. It's Kinda like. It's chaired. The National Association of Black Journalists Sports Task Force. I remember. Like four years ago, walking into a pse. Associated Press Sports Editors Convention in San Diego and talking to the membership. Sports editors from across the country and there was like two black women there. Two hundred people there. It was like. Ninety five percent of a more black males, and they were running the sports departments of our country's newspapers and websites and stuff. We were white male. White males and. These guys were like it was amazing to me like in this I. Think some NBA teams in owners. Say the same things I. Just can't find any blatty black. We can't find anybody a Mike, but are you looking? Like how hard he really really looking like they just call their boys as you think, we should look at for the job in goes, but what I told him is like look. When you have opening like. ME. Is when I was with the Chair in sports, Task Force within a BJ and I'll give you. Three to five names qualified names for every position that you have opened. In. Just give him an opportunity. If you don't WanNa hire him in into white guys, the best candidate under ask you to give them a chance. Let them get into the door. Then explain why they'd best person for the job. Let him sell themselves. Don't work out. Don't work out and they're like okay. Okay so then. I started after that started getting emails started getting calls. Hey, we got this openness. So I, don't know if you noticed probably but over the last three or four years in terms of NBA meeting media. There has been more black representation was going I was going to bring that up. I was going to bring that actually in the last couple of years and I think that's you know what the NBA is trying to do in team's gotTa do like. They need to bring in a more diverse group, and you might have your favorite who you like, but give it give it a fair chance to let qualified people you know in a few for these jobs and made a best person win. Women like. Well No, and that's that's the thing. I was GonNa say like twenty years that you and I have been covering this league. You were at the finals all-star. The events that bring everybody and you look around the room like that room has changed pretty dramatically in twenty years at the twenty three years I've been doing this in. An and certainly for the better, but only with regard to racial diversity or gender diversity still sucks just absolutely pathetic, and so that's on sports, editors, and and hiring people at every media outlet like that room is still I. Don't know I don't have the number so I shouldn't even put a number on it, but it's. I think it's over ninety percent male. and. It's certainly a very high number. Two certainly way out of whack. But, racial diversity like the the the the room has changed. And so I, you know I. Don't want to I. Don't want to in terms of writers or writers. If? We think about TV as IT GETS A. DVD TV is embarrassing. I mean you have a lot of Silent reporters are black, obviously a lot of former players color analyst, but. I don't think any NBA team. And I gotTA CHECK The guy in Charlotte because there's new person in Charlotte maybe Charlottesville, only warn. But. At minimum there is at maximum there's only one. Non White play by play television guy in NBA and I can't even think white male. Who now the. By? What's The lady from the nets, Kerr stock now. Does does color commentary? Okay, so she may be the only one now yeah like. That's pretty significant radio. Now keep in mind. These jobs people sit on these out for a long long time through. but in in terms of radio to like it's. Is Definitely. It might be all white male in radio. And Not for the Spanish language. And I should be clear when I'm when I'm talking about the room changing. I'm talking about the writers. It's the beat writers guys like you. And I came up covering teams, or then cover the League's national writers for various sites. Like I'm talking because I have no feel for the broadcast. And, so it's not to to to lop them off and say that we shouldn't be concerned about that, too, but. I think about the writers because that's our. That's our group, right? But it's gotten better. The NBA still is a lot of work to do there I. Think and I don't think it's something that they pay much attention to or I say that it's something that they don't address unless one of us. As a reporter goes and ask them about it. It never just comes up. There's no the NBA. It never feels like they're being very proactive. About it. Whatever programs they have, and they'll trot them out every time you were i. go to them, or if anybody else goes, they have their talking points. They have their. Here's the things that we're doing the league I forget it and I'm not. Dismissing that out of hand, but the results aren't there and. I do I will say that I think. Martina minority you're. Doing a lot of things. Behind the scene. To try to change things. amongst teams. But ultimately. You can't force the owner to do anything they don't WANNA do. Is Like we. We Ran McDonald's I can't force. Somebody who owns a Oakland in in Oakland? McDonald's in West Oakland hire somebody back. Run it. They own the franchise. They can do whatever the hell they want to do, so you could scream at Dole and all you want you scream at cyber, all you want. Who actually as commander but. But they're gonNA do ultimately these people to do what they wanna do so in some ways. I do think the NBA in terms of the individual teams. Their hands are tied like they could send list upon listen make recommendations upon recommendations to these teams, but if that owner. Doesn't care about diversity? Like, the thing that somebody was telling me the other day about Gore's donors pissed the Pistons owner like they used to work in their front office when he bought the team. He went and visited the offices of his company and walk through the office in the ninety five percent of the people that worked in his office where White, and so he was like. WHOA. Obviously this do doesn't really seem to. Care about diversity. You know in their mind according to this person, and then you see their front office and. Their executive for office is white, Male, white male, white male white male might well might the white male white male white male white male white male, and then one new black do. League rose got pushed out. Let's be honest because he was. Too opinionated. You know. We was going to be opinionated, too, so let's see how aren't. Telemann company adapt to debt. But. Like I. Really Wonder What Gore's really feels like behind the scenes. Like if you allow that to be a front office. because. That's a whole new front office I. Don't know how much she cared about diversity in the first place. And it's interesting to, and you said the set the top. That they were having GM search. In the midst of this moment is movement this this this tidal wave that's going on, not just run a country, but around the world this is front and center on everybody's. Minds their news the news coverage their discussions in various household like this is just this is this is the issue of the moment, and we hope that it doesn't pass like so many others have our other moments passed without real change, and we see it in various drips and drabs. The last couple of weeks. But if that's what tipped the scales for them and move them toward hiring weaver. Great good outcome and again somebody who is very deserving and had been deserving for a very long time. But it's interesting. Right that it that it took this, but maybe but. I I here's where I wrestle with this mark. There's a whether it's that higher whether it's various statements that teams have issued. Whether it's recognizing June. Eighteenth is a holiday whether it's them just issuing statements calling out the murder of George Floyd. Then everybody! There's this thing we do. We start to try to gauge will. How sincere was this? How much of this is trying to make sure that they're saying the right thing just to be politically correct or to make sure that they don't look like they're on the wrong side of of this battle, and so we get we get very cynical, and you could look at the Pistons hiring cynically to that would be unfair to troy weaver. Frankly, but some people may look at it that way and just issued. while. They interview Wes Wilcox. Soda the bowls in. Eighty. Kinda got fired under some really interesting circumstances, but It is more to that story that's out. I'm sure we'll hear about the rest of eventually. Yeah. But it, but they do deserve Kudos for hiring for because that was a great. Right, so it brings me to this point, which is, there are times like this where I'm not sure I care whether whether it was a cynical move or not I just I just WanNa see the right outcome more often than we've been seeing in the past right, and if and if teams are issuing statements that they may not fully mean that we look at that owner and their track record and say I don't think. Think you really believe this, but you're putting out. You know what it at least has moved the conversation. It has shifted what is expected of all of us and especially people who have the most power and wealth and and authority in in this society of ours that even if you may not mean an entirely I'd still almost rather see these cynical statement that no statement because it's moved the Bar, it is now saying. This is the minimum. Expect. It's the NBA or just? Society businesses large. We got receipts. With these statements and that's what I'll okay. Key I love all these statements. Put all these statements because now. As things, start happening in the world job. Start opening up as as maybe to the momentum star. Slow down. We could say oh way but you. Remember when you said this that you. Plan to do this that you want to do this and you're about this well. You're not living up to that statement. On the record now. like I. do find Cuban situation with Cuban is extremely interesting, very. Because I would have thought. Honestly in in you know I know mark for a long time that. He probably be one of the last guys that would like. Stand up and say I want to help. Or I wanNA take a knee. I remember his comment when he said. You know somebody black was wearing a Hoodie I'd walk to the other side of the street while people forget that I remember that. I was told once that he he told. One of his players, who we a black player was odds with in nocco say the players Nag because they would be upset if I did. That don't forget who pays you cringe-worthy. Yeah, Then, you know Harrison. Barnes was very upset. About. You Know Cuban saying that if McDonald's all Americans went to Slovenia. They would be better basketball players. He took that offense to it in a race away. So they're now after these things now we see mark during amazing things. Is. Speaking out against. Racial Injustice Pataudi says he wants to take a knee giving money to the National Association of Black Journalists. By Bomani Jones called him out on the past. and. So I think the thing is like. You know everybody wasn't down for the cause before. But. If they are now. Like. Do we walk alongside them, or are we skeptical? that. That's going to be the challenge like just he'd like to what you said like who who's really down for the cause or WHO's trying to get some points like trying to run for president or something in the future you eat out of? Cuban. So, but I do think that. As a Black Mavericks, employees, said Man. You gotTA. Let it go. Our forget nothing. But I have to give respect. To the fact that at least he is trying. To do amazing things now, so you know I I had to give him credit for at least showing the ability to change. Well not doing that. and. That's the thing mark like. It doesn't mean anything he said he didn't is past goes away or is is negated by the stance. He's taking now. Take No, a really important, and they've been really emphatic to like he's. He's way beyond the bare minimum. He didn't have to go this far. If it was just for show, he did not have to go. As far as he has not. With the the strength of the things he has said the stance he has taken. The money's contributed everything like he does not have to go this far to be on the record and do what a lot of others have done, which is just do the bare minimum to get on the record, right? He exceeded that. If whether people still want to cynically, maybe it's in light. Light of a future presidential run or something, or whatever people may WanNa view. It and I'm going to tell anybody how they should perceive it but if you're viewing it cynically, I would just say the one the thing I. think is always important is that people are capable of great change and mental psychological emotional evolution? Right like we're if any of the same people at fifty that we were at forty at forty, th as we were at thirty or twenty, if anybody is is, is that locked into who they were their beliefs, their awareness, their ability to be to be assertive about certain issues like this. No one should be static in that way, and so I will always it in some way when it comes to somebody like mark, Cuban or anybody else or tell myself for that matter. We all have to to keep open an open mind that people do evolve, not everybody does. People involved and so if if. And let me say loudly. I respect him for that for his by A. We got receipts on him now to. You know in what he's saying, but. I do WANNA. Forgive him for the things in the past. And I. Want to salute him for what he's doing now. Get give it a true opportunity to to show that like people can change. 'cause everybody that. You know. There's a lot of people now. That perhaps didn't know that they are racist. That realized that they were or realized that they didn't do. do much before trying to do stuff now. Like I talked to my sister about it and I'm like. Why is it so different now? Like? Why should we trust this in like Rodney? King was televised. The civil rights movement was televised like. Why should we believe why America's really down to help now? And she. She said Look Mark. We can't change what happening. We could remember what happened can't change it, but. Let's give it a chance in in I mean. Better late than never was a words better late than ever and. So. That's kind of like I'm. Cuban with a lot other people. Like I, think that's where a lot of black people were not trying to speak for Black America on the Voice of Black American. No one is but. I do know that my a lot of my friends. It just been frustrated and. Like wide now like how? How come why? That's betting was. Bayada said that you're enthusiastic now and. AMATA RB gets you excited or in our the hundreds of people. Thousands of people bought behind this before this. And it just I don't know I. Don't know why this is the thing, but I'm glad that there is a thing and like I hope. I actually my hope is actually Howard. How'd you daughter fourteen not to put your family business book? She's fourteen. You have a beautiful smart intelligent. well-rounded, mature, mixed race daughter, right? And I, think this younger generation they. See things a lot differently than we do. In terms of they don't care if you gay. They don't care what color you are. They don't care what you have. They don't want you in they they they respect you as a person. It know you a chance and. They also have something to our. We didn't have grown up San. Jose and that's the cell phone. The ability to. When we were in high school like they were they, they saluted Columbus. In history books. And how he just walked up to this country, there was nothing here. But land. Discovered it, you know. I don't know happened. These Indian people, but you know to me like. But your your daughter kids all over the world, the poorest kids have the ability to have cell phones and the ability to watch news to do research online to get information, and even if their parents. Their family, their surroundings are racist. They have the ability to get their own information and make their own decision so I do have hope. That in terms of race relations in terms of the environment. Like just in terms of making the world, a better place overall. Our generation missed it. Completely missed it, but I do believe that your daughter's generation and younger is gonNA actually. GonNa be a people. That's GONNA. Make this world a better place. I mean Amen I hope so, but I also think that you know to the extent that like you know. We can be cynical about this moment. feels. There's this tidal wave of of of support for this movement from. Let's face it. It's. A time away from white people who previously seem to either not care enough or Were not moved enough to get involved. Now it seems are involved at least to the extent that they're involved in in protesting marching, speaking up more emphatically I don't know why that tipping point is there, but it is, and it does feel like a tipping point, and I know everybody's kind of waiting to see like. Is this real or not? Is it lasting or not? Does it lead to meaningful change or not? And and like obviously none of us know I just know that to your point about social media I pull up social media everyday, and it's such a weird mix of both uplifting and depressing images and videos over these last several weeks because it's been yet more police brutality, there's been yet more overt racism and counter protests by people who who don't give a damn. And so, that's that's depressing on the flipside seeing literally hundreds of thousands of people not just here, but around the world in countries where the black population might be like one percent. Or less. English premier league like where black lives matter on the back of their jerseys. Stunning and amazing to me right? So that's. Not Nothing like I. Don't know what it is, but it's not nothing. I choose to be optimistic and maybe look at. Maybe that's my white privilege talking but I choose to believe as a white person seeing other white people being in tune with and. Upset enough and passionate enough to speak out on this to tomorrow on this and everything like I've never seen this in my lifetime. Here's the thing like with everything dramatic that happens and we could talk about. Horrible things that have happened in this country even just like school shootings and stuff like that like there's this. Education, there's outrage as fight. There's protests and then all of sudden people get your no in. Turn their back to it in forget. It happens. It happens again. And then they get mad by. I hope with this. That whatever passing that everybody's feeling now. It doesn't extinguish. I want you to feel the same passion now. Today that you feel on your last breath like that's my hope like all these folks. Were you know that that WanNa fight that WanNa do the right thing that won't though the scales to be. Tipped in a fair position like. You WanNa make me feel good. Tell me like man. I'm a keep this passion the rest of my life that. That would make me feel amazing. Not just seasonal. Like winter came I'm go inside and star eight and again. Like now manages hopefully. Hopefully for the real real people like Bob was telling somebody that there's seeing. Malcolm, X., WHEREAS WHITE LADY GOES UP TO, Malcolm X. in a movie and says. Is there anything I could do to help? End He's like Nah. Any ended Greta at. This. Racism in America is not going to change what the dramatic help of white people and I've been saying that for a long time in that written in our that about. How Important Steve Kerr's voices and corporate vars Popovich Jj read it, you know. I saw Chris long the day before Lsu won a national championship my tigers. Football? And told him thank you. Saw Modesi Vegas restaurant, new, Orleans, and told him thank you then the next day is a trump walked onto the field. And people. START CHEERING ENCHANTING USA. and. That was the first time in my life where I'm like. I don't think the USA there. channing is the USA. that. My vision of what USA should be. In that was. The most uncomfortable feeling I ever had at a sporting event. I Never WanNa feel like that again. Almost felt like walking out. The Light, certainly, put a damper on on. What was an amazing night watching alyce win. But like it if people think that raises going to end tomorrow, just because people start paying attention to it. That's that's hilarious. Is is fight that never dies I think things are getting better. I think companies are now being held accountable teams are being held accountable. Humans are being held accountable, but as you see in NASCAR, what these nooses! The roaches a single diamond, going to keep creeping ahead in the dark of night in doing things that you know. That people aren't going to see. Them. Do. They remind us that they're still here in. The not going away without a fight. Sadly! There will never be shortage of reminders you even if we even have, it feels like we're turning a corner and I hope we are. That elements will never go away entirely. It's just a sad sad truth. Support for the full forty eight comes from our friends at rocket mortgage by quicken loans home. It's the one place you can be the most comfortable version of yourself. What if you felt that secured during your financing process to well, that's what you'll get with rocket mortgage by quicken loans forget sifting through mountains of paperwork pondering one hundred unanswered questions who needs all that? There's a better way with award winning customer service and a personalized home-buying experience. You can rest easy knowing you and your dream home are in expert care. Quicken loans has been doing mortgages for thirty five years. Years and have been a leader in the industry in both technology and client satisfaction, they know how to work hard and get the job done right. 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When when Stephen Jackson is is up there. Saying this is my brother, and so now we've seen players which coaches gems you know. Those statements issued by owners other things. We know where the League is in general mark on on these issues, but the hasn't itself and listen to their Just go let them off the hook. These been a little busy with just trying to get the league started again. So I don't want to. I don't want me to criticism, but the League hasn't really said anything much overtly or assertively about their place in this. This this movement right now. I think that will change as they get everything in place for the restart, and as they get to Orlando, but I don't know I. Don't know where that's going to go so your last week with in the wake of Kyrie and Avery Bradley and Lou Williams talking about maybe and Dwight Howard talking about. Maybe we shouldn't go. Maybe we should be. Not Playing basketball now. Maybe the best way to keep this movement going is to just work on the movement as opposed to playing basketball, so you wrote a piece headlined. If NBA, players sit out the season. Will they miss their best opportunity to be heard? And you painted like a really amazing picture here that I texted you that day because I just thought this was perfect I'm a reader real quick, imagine hearing, lift every voice and sing after the star. Star spangled banner before game. One of the twenty twenty NBA finals at Walt Disneyworld the Eastern Conference Champs are standing side by side with one fist in the air, wearing I can't breathe t shirts. The western conference champs are kneeling on the hardwood, wearing t shirts that read black lives matter before tip off. There is silence for eight minutes and forty seconds the amount of time Minneapolis Office police officer Derek. Chelvan knelt on George Floyd's neck before he tragically died. They data is such a powerful image to consider in. It really underscores the possibilities, not we don't know what the reality will be, but because the possibilities of what the NBA could do as a league as individual teams as players to amplify and just hammer home, these issues at a time, when in late July and August and September to your point earlier when it may have started to fade and to me that again, not my place to say, but that would be a more powerful way to me of of pushing this forward than sitting it out in entirely now looks like you know as of today which Tuesday afternoon two thirty almost eastern time. Only, players who have announced they're not going so far or for other personal reasons, it's not for reasons of of black lives, matter or anything else. So I agree. We don't have to discuss why. It's more powerful. I think to go and use the opportunity. I think that that's. Probably, just proved to be true from just a media standpoint. But what should they do more? Is it what you outlined in those paragraphs I just read. Is it something more? What do you think into the extent that the the players have a lot of leverage? This is the era player. And they've been front and center on this movement. What do you think they should be could be or maybe they already are asking of the League. and. There's just even before I even going to like. Let's think of the vision that we saw which will be a part of NASCAR history. grabber now. BUBBA Wallace. In his car with several look like several hundred. NASCAR drivers personnel. Walking behind him and solidarity after you know, he had a news put in in his garage. If BUBBA Wallace said. You know what I'm not going to drive. I'm done. We don't have that. Moment. I live man. I I should a tier after that race when. Like I saw black people at the race run up to the fence to what black lives matters, t shirts. In, go there in like. Express their love for bubba Wallace and I don't even know what those folks were. Even race car fan before, but the fact that day. Came to that race to support him. Under those circumstances Anco via. Was Really Really Beautiful Man, and I, could see him really overwhelmed by the love that he has and I. You know I've been to. Ironically of NASCAR race, what Brad daugherty and spend a day with him and had an amazing time, but You know you see the the confederate flags in that have been sent away in so. I've watched I watched a NASCAR race yesterday. Because I wanted to see what happened with Bubba Wallis. I watched. You know read about Nascar lie more in the last two or three days. So by bubble, Wallace, having this platform and fighting against racism. Like to me. He gives an example to the NBA players of what you could do. With your platform. The NBA is a APP Mahmoud Abdul Rose NBA. is a different MBA. This is an NBA in which the commissioner basically banned. Racism from an owner Donald Sterling. And basically let everybody know what will. It will not be tolerated in this league. This is not the NFL I. Think the NBA is willing to stand alongside these players in allow them to. Have, the platform they want for social injustice for police. Speak Out Employees Battalion. They're not gonNA. Stop Him. They want to help them and I talked to a player from the Players Association on the Committee. WHO said they were putting together a list of things to bring to the NBA this week in terms of what they want. When they go to Orlando. So I'm sure in the coming weeks. The NBA The players association would have like a joint. Kind of release on press release on what they're. GonNa do. Then as I noted in the story like and you know this hour. The media. Interest now. Is An astronomical high after always being at a very low. Like. People that Fit Carolina's or were scared to ride about it. Or just turn a blind eye to it now said that's going to be the story there. Especially when twenty two teams I get their twenty two teams. That's a significant amount. So would a twenty two different teams GonNa. Do that's a lot. Of Awareness does a lot of opportunity to to yell names to talk about what paying you to talk about change, twenty two teams and the whole world is definitely going to be watching NBA in their response. And I think the viewership is going to be higher than it has ever been. Cove it and you can't tell me they're they're you know? They're on racist people that don't like the NBA like you mentioned. Do the right thing. Remember, said you Michael Jordan and. Spike Lee told southbound you. All, you'd like Fritzy you know you. Those people aren't black. They're better than black. So there's raises people there that love the NBA in are GonNa Watch the NBA. Black people who have been entertaining America for a long time in a lot of different ways right? But if they're inundated. From the beginning of the resume, NBA season to the end of it with messages with visuals with maybe shirts, instead of says James on the back of his black lives, matter on a back, or there's a picture. George Floyd on the side on Zion Williams shoe. Or. Maybe they're playing at George Floyd Memorial court black lives matter court. Or the stanchion has a charity that for civil rights you could help or there's a PS. A public service announcement mandatory in the first half and second half of every game television radio. I think the NBA players have the ability to demand a voice that the NBA is willing to give them that they need to demand from the media that they need to demand from their corporate partners that they got a demand from the people they endorse. same way now you're seeing all these corona virus commercials. Maybe. There are some social justice commercial day that come with their promotion whatever product it is. during this time and So you have this ability to raise your voice for three months to me. That's a significant amount of time like what Bubba Wallace didn't race. What have Jesse Wallace Jesse Owens? Did it run? What if John Carlos and Tommie? Smith didn't run and put their fists up. What of cabinet didn't take a knee? I think the NBA. Players have an ability in mass. To. Make a loud statement on a daily basis. To. Force people to see it whether they wanted to see it or not. You WanNa, Watch NBA game, you WANNA listen to an NBA game. There's going to be a message that comes with it and. Who knows who lives that change in in the process? So I'm looking forward to seeing whatever they decide to do. But I just hope whatever they do. It's in grand scale. Through the finals and I'm expecting it. Yeah and you've just listed a dozen ways. They could do this right like there's no shortage of of gestures of of symbolism of direct messaging, subtle messaging like. There's there's so many things an. Good when it puts its energies, it's creative energies as marketing force behind something. They, get it right, so they've got a chance here to do quite a bit mark everything you've listed and probably more David also say this hour. The like the players on the outside if they're worried about. The word being out on the outside of the bubble I mean. Kyrie irving take all that passing than us towards implementing change outside. You're not playing. Kevin. Durant will be on outside Steph Curry Klay. Thompson Draymond Green John Wall who is just in the protest the day on June teen. trae young was doing stuff with voting with Lebron James. Like With every team gets eliminated. Doing on the outside, they can start joining forces with that, too. So, I think the NBA players actually have the ability. To make noise inside and outside of the bubble. No doubt. And if the League really wants to put its force behind to they can, they can involve their broadcast partners to ESPN Turner. Halftime, Show pre-game show game. Whatever like there's. There's the opportunity here to whether it's who they bring in for interviews. For that you know they're halftime feature. Whatever they can. Dig into a lot to incorporate this in a in a very official manner, just as part of the broadcast to in addition to sign and all the other things that could be done. There's a lot of potential there. I'm very curious to see what they do. End Up doing with it. You mentioned June teeth. I wonder like this a quick side note. A Lot a lot of people on twitter been having fun with this the idea that you know. White people like myself were not aware of June eighteenth until very recently guilty. You're never wanted a June team fessel in San Jose we had one went every year. Serious was amazing. I mean like you'd things. Yeah, but I'm black. No. I was GONNA to say this is this is where I should bring up the fact that we are from different parts of San Jose because I know you wanna you WanNa. You want it to us. The knife on this like because I was from South San Jose from the east side you know. No this environment. I will I will say this. 'cause I opened with this when we started the conversation. You and I knew each other for twenty three years going back to our days daily at the Daily News together I will just say this. No matter how many people have known a different backgrounds. There are conversations that we all just don't have that we should have. And so things things get lost like you and I have had how many conversations over twenty years where we've never gone down some of the past. We've gone down in the last hour, right? It's taken what's happened in the last few weeks in our country. To See. Multiple colleagues reading about their own experiences, dealing with police and racism very specifically police and racism racism to, but especially with with police. I didn't know the things that you know. Goodwill or others had experienced despite these being my friends. Like, because because we don't have these conversations all the time at least across racial lines. You did you got arrested in a sixth grade? Playing basketball I did not know that so again. This is the conversation. Enjoy this was in San Jose. So I started fall in love with the game of basketball I kinda in the fifth grade. You know going to Hell your elementary school which? I started planning and lunchtime recess and stuff like that and they know what I'm actually because I'm athletic and I'm taller back to decide at this. And just fell in love with basketball star playing in sixth grade Silverdale junior high. In. In My neighborhood. In San Jose off a capital mcglaughlin. For San Jose People. There was no. Basketball! Court for miles. No who for miles we had apart around the corner, but there was no basketball court there. The nearest basketball court was at the nearest school. There was nothing and so I fall in love with the game and I WANNA shoot. So I had a neighbor. That lived in the street behind me. who was running a house was a white lady, single white lady with. Three kids in. Their kids could care less about basketball, but she had. A basketball who. On the garage. So I asked her if I could come there in play, she's like. Gave me permission so I would go there during the summer. Shoe. and. The lady next door why late next door and she had a garden in between two house, so the ball Caisley would bounce into tour guard, and she came out, and she told me I needed this grant. And I like. I'll try my best not to let the ball bounce into your garden, but I ain't going nowhere. I got to play here and this is. The lady lived at the house was gone at the moment, so she called the police on. Sixth Grade. The police show up. I'm shooting. In a said. Hey, boy, career I'm like okay. I come to white officers and you're like. What are you doing? I'm like I'm playing basketball. Well. You need to go like why do I need believe near like You don't live here. And you need to go, so I got actually got permission from the lady. She just not here right now, but she gave me permission to play so I'm GonNa continue to play. If you don't stop playing. We're GONNA to rescue and take you downtown. To ask you to a sixth grader. LA- sixth grader as it. Excuse me if you don't stop playing. We're GONNA arrest you in. Take you downtown. So. I'm damn near in tears. I take my literally take my ball and go home. And I'm just you know sitting outside I'm like sad and everything, and just like I can't believe that like I almost got arrested over blamed basketball. And My Dad comes home. It's like one. What you? And I told them what happened in just a look in the anger in his eyes I. Still I can still see it now. He jumped in his truck in with some department store. This after he just got off of work. Winter store went and bought a basketball. Who In my dad is amazing handyman? Put it up on the garage. It's a move this car out the driveway glasson shoot as much as you want. You've got to worry about going anywhere anymore. Joan House. And That was it that I mean as kind of how lot of things basketball got sparked me was because I almost got arrested in the sixth grade and my Dad Was So pissed that he went. And got me a basketball who I don't know how so nobody can say nothing to me. Yeah, I mean. Listen the number of times that my basketball baseball tennis ball whatever we were playing without. Front out back whatever? That went to a neighbor's yard that we went and chased it. All the time hop and fences being in other people's backyards that we didn't belong at all. Yeah, I never had the cops called on me. Do this, but these you know. If if we don't have these conversations, we don't. We don't understand other people's experiences and the reason I say that is just to go back something you said a few minutes ago. When the restart happens in Orlando when the Games are back on when NBA players decided to start. Addressing this in a much more direct fashion with you, the home audience. If you are if if you're white and you're an NBA Fan. And you love these folks as players you like wearing their jerseys. You root for them. You argue about them. You talk about your guys like this is your your point of pride, as a fan of the spurs of the Bulls are the Lakers whoever? If you love these players. In the way that you feel like they represent you or your city. Then you have to respect their humanity to. You can't draw a line. It has to be the whole thing and I say that because I think that there is a disconnect because you said it mark. There are racists who like the NBA The risks to watch the NBA or people who like let's like the term racist is so charge now, but even people who just don't understand what's going on right now. It may not be be supportive of of the cause of this discussion. Whatever resistance you have, whatever you are not getting. Just step back. Take a deep. Deep Breath and listen because NBA players are going to be directing this to the world very soon and again if you love them as players as entertainers as as as just whatever representative of your city you have to respect their humanity, and doing that means listening and listening to their experiences and things that have gone through in their lives, and the reason why they are putting their reputations and careers on the line to address these issues right now and if you can't embrace all of that if you can't listen to them if you don't embrace their humanity then. You're a counterfeit fan. You're you're just you're just you just want to be entertained and you don't give a crap about anything beyond that. There's nothing worse than that. especially in a moment right now just like everybody just shut up and listen. That's I mean I hate getting preachy on this podcast or anywhere else. I don't do it often but I. Just. This is something that it's. It's come up in the last few weeks. In a variety of ways in a just like that I. Don't know I just need to get off my chest I. This is a time for people especially people who look like me to listen. And you know what I'm. GonNa. Go back to some fun. Man I wish you got to go to those June team festivals. There were like you know. They were really really cool like. I. Think one of the things I do. Appreciate about growing up in San. Jose terms of my neighborhood demise schools was. Our diversity was crazy near. In My neighborhood, my next door neighbor was Mexican people around me were Filipino. We Koreans Portuguese Y. Black Lynn Swann's brother used to live across the street. His daughter Asante. Swan is mellow PR person I grew up with her We had like many different races on our block. So I mean it was three black families, but it was like a family that was white Mexican like all kinds of mixtures. My best friend growing up was Filipino and black. And I thought like San Jose was like. My neighborhood would like the rest of the world till I went visit my family New Orleans. His family in Saint Louis on. But. We had things like an inner. I wish some schools could implement this because I think it's great for the parents as well as a kid. In A. Post pandemic world, but they would have like international. Or Culture Day at my elementary school. where? Every family from different races would get together and they would bring food. To a table in the cafeteria and you could walk in like okay. I'M GONNA get some Filipino. Roma. Try some. I'M GONNA try some African American food. My mom would cook Jambalaya like new. Orleans Creole Jambalaya and Somebody else from a black person from Texas monocoque, some soul, food or something like that. Cooking and so I got to taste all these different food when I was a kid. And be around all these different people. Even with that like there was racism I dealt with. Because of that like I had. Stay denied at a kids house at a best friend. I was a kid. I was close to Filipino. Stay denied at his house the next morning. His mom lost some money. She called my dad and said I think your son stole my money. Then an hour later, she called back Oh. My bad I found it in in a couch. My Dad's like you'll never go to house again. I had a dated another girl. A that was Philippino wants, and her was helping her with her schoolwork, and she was getting better in English because of me. Dad told her she could date me. Because I was black I had a Mexican coach in highschool. Who one time slap me at a practice. When I was complaining about the lack of of of heat at our gym and We went out to lunch one time, and he said data. We're going to a Mexican restaurant. He. Hey, you know they don't have fried chicken and watermelon this restaurant. You know that right to Lord. Those those kind of things that I was still with high school, so or growing up one time I went into a Vietnamese restaurant on a hot day to buy soda, and we just wanted one of soda. Man came back with a cup of this holy. Oh My. God. Like so like there was. This beautiful side of San, Jose that I dealt with. But then there was also. Racist things like. That that the Mexican coach Ed. I told you about his. His son once told me. My Dad only likes black people because they're good at basketball. So he's GonNa like you were Jim, but once we're at. Jimmy really doesn't want anything to do with you. In? It is actually. He went from being one of my best friends. Despite that to when I graduated from High School, he ended up beer like father, and basically stopped being in contact with me because he saw the became racist for black people. And now he has since moved back into. Friend Direction, but I I'm older and I forgot that, so it's hard for me to embrace that again. Embrace that friendship again so just like a lot of. Stuff growing up that I dealt with Going to die I'm sure you went to Santa Clara County Fair. As a kid you. I got racially profiled there couple times. One time it was a mixed group of it was me my black and Filipino. Another Filipino friend Mexican friend. And we got taken out of the car and put on all fours because we fit a description. What kind of description is that? We. Specific. Yeah, we saw the other car with two black and Filipino guy a black Guy Mexican guy you. Got It scripted. Is that right and so? We got mess with. With all the time, but. There was also a lot of beautiful things that I dealt with with police. Sirens in the background is. That was going to say or on your side, not my side. This is I know what? That was but I have been open California's that happens. But. It was just like this weird mix of beautiful nightmarish. Going up, there where one minute you just had this beautiful mix of people that were around all the time. And the next moment you dealing with. Some racism stuff or Some police like I was constant. So there's a lot of things I loved about living there and a lot of things. I hated about living here I remember having A. Mar My friend Latasha Walker went to mount pleasant high. She had a house party. None Black people and she had pizza in punch. There was no we. There was no. Like Radio K. Sol. If you remember that staging the essay. Was Kids doing nothing. Nothing we're just sitting in our house. Do Enough. Just hanging out talking. and. The cops busted through the backsliding door. With guns on us. Like. Over this. Because somebody neighborhood called bunch of black kids house. A lady that her mom was white. And she she was gone for like her. Mom didn't know about this party, but. There's one of the neighbors call because it was a bunch of black kids going to the top. Who made a point to to stay inside the house? Make sure we didn't bother anybody. Then I go to you know back then we would go to house parties like you get flyers for parties and stuff like that. Remember Howard like which is like crazy like you go to a party at somebody's house. Even know it'd be like you know I got this flyer so and so's having a party at their house. And I remember going to this party in the Oak Grove Santa Teresa. Where you were. And me and my friend Ernie went and lack of Filipino. We walk in mostly white kids. This loud music Glenn like we could hear from a while. Distance away, but I think they had told everybody in the neighborhood. They're throwing this party. And there was a like A. A mountain of cocaine. On the kitchen table. And me and him look at each other. I'd never seen cocaine before. Like what the hell. And we turned around and walked out. No no-cost. Kate where you though nobody today say that he was is like you know this parties allowed us. How got cocaine sitting on the table? You could just walk in and see. A hundred kids yelling and screaming Baker al-Qaeda that was okay, but we had a party with punch in pizza. But we don't. We don't have any policing problems in this country. Can, I just go go back to June eighteenth for a minute and and one. One day I'll get back to California when we can all travel again. You're not go to June teeth and San Jose together. I didn't realize that it missed now this year all the time. So just a quick footnote because it just I thought this is really interesting. When it hit me the other day. The NBA is recognizing June teens. As a holiday gave its employees a day off. A bunch of a bunch of teams have done it as well. You know what happened on June. Nineteenth, two thousand sixteen. We'll have. That was game seven of the NBA Finals Kyrie's shot. Lebron's block. Cadillac. And it doesn't so. I looked up several years worth for the last five or so years just to see, but June nineteenth will often fall fall between game six and seven it in some years it would fall between the finals in the draft. But in in two thousand sixteen, it was. That was game seven. None of the players that are worried about is what you say. It's not just that mark. It's more just that now that the NBA has decided that this is something that is important to our legal to the players in our league. 'em. Out. I'm not. I'm not I'm not making fun of that all. I'm saying like like okay you you've you've taken a step here. Because of the moment that we're in, but it it occur it. Hit me later that this actually has implications for the counter and small thing but I. Just I just want to note it because like June. Eighteenth did not just get invented. It's been around for literally centuries, and so I think it's also rare for them MBA season to end that late to yeah like I said it doesn't happen every year, but by the way we're like this the twenty twenty twenty one season if we ever get to, it is going to start like December first earliest. That'd be great, so that'd be great. They're going to have a holiday. An Mba holiday in the middle of the finals are they going to give everybody the day off in the middle of fight like there's actually now that you have adapted to to realities now you gotTa. Any maybe hopefully. Hopefully if there's a game on that day. They'll give them a future holiday later out. Although floating holiday, no I think it's great but I also think it needs to be brought into like. Let's make a big deal of. The Hispanic month you know. Let's make a bigger deal Chinese new year like there's a Lotta significant. Holidays for people all over the world you know like I used to celebrate Cinco Demayo in San Jose and was more than just going out drinking. You know. I used to go celebrate that like June tenth Festival in San Jose was amazing and. A member of the freedom ride. My mom used to take the train from San Jose to San Francisco Martin Luther King Day. Now was a big deal so. Like hopefully, when black history month comes next year like it ain't just black people writing about it and newspapers and websites and TV stations all right. We're going to send our black reporter to do a story about. By glitz everybody, write about it like like. Let's get more education on Chinese. New Year let's. Like instead of saying you know. Lows Keat. Let's put you know. The way go football. Spats Days Jersey like you know what I mean. Like. Whatever. Looked at what warriors was in Spanish. Like is a is a really cool day you know like. Let's go all in for all races for for all people dislike same way you know. Even even with pride pride time. This is also the finals. DERN PRI- Just like this. This is a time where I think we could. Change in represent a Lotta cultures. Make this bigger than black you know. Let's make everybody. Know absolutely and the NBA. Is You know? Not a lot of those months those events those those times during the season, but yeah, you're right there are there are degrees of in terms of how how much do to. Commemorate celebrate. And also then foster just. Education understanding there's always another step to go to there, and there's a lot more. They could do a lot more that we all can do myself included. Man. This has been phenomenal mark but I have held you for quite a bit of time here. And I do want to let you get going. This is a great conversations been A. Phenomenal conversation for all kinds of reasons, not least of which is as I said at the outset. As long as we've known each other some of these things we've just never really talked about and we. We all need more of these conversations. But I probably have more conversations with you about it the most yeah probably. Probably. We we've talked I. I think we talked about it more than you remember I mean. We've hit along the way, but as I say I just it just straight. And I could be a smart as to I could say some things that people. But. We're friends, so it's. Anybody you know. That no, it for sure I. Just it was. It was like I say it was striking in the wake of George Floyd to see how many black NBA reporters. Came forward their own stories whether they wrote about it with a tweet about it or whatever and to see that cascading over the course of days and to realize these are my friends and I didn't even realize that they had been through these things that they have had had to deal with these things I could have assumed it I kind of know it intuitively. I'm I'm aware of these things, but. They're not the conversations that we've always had so anyway. I I appreciate you coming on and sharing all of your experiences and your insights. And folks obviously follow mark on twitter chicken stuff out the undefeated. He's incredibly prolific and very well connected. You always know what's on the hearts and minds of players by reading mark stuff because he knows he knows it better than anybody This has been fantastic. Mark my friend. Thank you so much. Love you man, thank you for having me you to talk soon, okay? Get on next time. We'll have to be tragedy to give you off. You know you stop. We will next time next time. We were talking just hoops. We will find some some a lighter moments in our in our time and lighter topics to discuss I look forward to it. Raise of all. But. Thank you again for being used. In carrying in being a one and A. Shoe Allied and all this madness man I said. Thank you appreciate you. For businesses around the world today isn't a restart. It's a rethink that's why they're partnering with IBM. Retailers are keeping their systems up as millions of orders move online. Call centers are using IBM Watson to manage an influx of customer questions with a I and solutions built on the IBM cloud are helping doctors care for patients remotely. Today were rethinking how business moves forward, so let's get to it. Let's put smart to work. VISIT IBM DOT com slash smart to learn more.

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Slate's Hang Up and Listen

1:13:47 hr | 1 year ago

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"The following podcast contains explicit language. Hello I'm Josh Levin Slates National Editor and the author of the Clean Slate Sports podcast hang up and listen for the week of October Twenty eight two thousand eighteen on this week show ben Lindberg of the ringer actor Fai America Electric cars may seem a little different Banou technology always seems weird at first but electric cars they are normal now you can take an elect rick vehicle dear we can get away and even on longer road trips they're more models to choose from than ever before sedans SUV's luxury vehicles and even when motorcycles more affordable models less routine maintenance they may actually help you save money electric cars they're normal now learn more and normal now dot com just a expand our collection of audience replies or not do you think the centers would actually tell us that the show sucked they were dissenting and get happy day into the rest of the show yes well I Christian Pulisic scored his first second and third goals for Chelsea could much against Canada clearly Canada much stiffer than Burnley as an opponent clearly and they were all great goals they were fantastic calls this is very exciting he right before that moment fans booed the shit out of trump when he and his entourage from Hell but thing in Baton Rouge on Saturday it's the rare Lsu and Saints Double Bye Week I overreact two week one of the NBA season the warriors they're really bad maybe that's overreact we'll see joining me here and the Washington that's different I think moving on we are doing a live show December third Tuesday in DC the Hamilton life tickets at slate dot com ABC's studio it is the author of a few seconds of panic and word freak seven fats Acela Stephan Klein Josh Did you WanNa talk about soccer morning before we for most fans of the Washington nationals there was just one highlights from game five of the world series in DC on Sunday night had too much to drink maybe but we'll find out December third Hamilton life DC slate dot com slash life this episode of Hang Up and listen is sponsored by slash life please come everybody who goes to live show and Driza never heard a dissenting view on that maybe you can come and tell us that you didn't like it longer than yours Josh and he's more optimistic about the long-term prospects of the United States of America's soccer power I guess hope he's right Ambridge feel very how important a lot of ghosts rattling around in there I will make sure to bring my what do you call that ghostbuster yeah lightsaber so there's no football Louisiana so I am the most exciting thing happening in Louisiana in Baton Rouge on Saturday so eleven am at the Louisiana Book Festival in the State Capitol building housed the job of it and we also have breaking news on the US men's national team yeah the a Dutch American players Gino desk made a choice of what team on on the jumbotron and someone unfurled impeach trump banner on the field and not so good for the former Montreal expos the nats lost the Houston Astros. US MNT I still don't understand why he would WANNA play for this train wreck of a country but more power to the young men now maybe his vision is a little bit he was going to play for internationally he's nineteen years old he's a defender for I axe and starts which means he's really good and he's chosen the United States of America wanted a female reporter shouting about alleged domestic abuser and the team then failed to own up to it for a very long time finally the New Yorkers Vincent Cunningham one after dropping the two previous games in our nation's capital eight to one and four to one our friend Ben Lindbergh is here he writes and podcasts for their last twenty games including eight straight in the playoffs including games one and two in Houston and they had the narrative momentum on their side because of the Astros very excited as he should have looked he looked the way that he should have looked figuring out both how to play at this level and had a look at this level yeah he's doing it singer and is the CO author of the books the MVP machine and the only rule is it has to work welcome back then hey guys are the nats at one eighteen his front office embarrassments then we came here to DC the three games actually seemed pretty simple to analyze because each of them was so lopsided when we talked to a grand while I was skeptical GonNa go with the with the Dutch I was much more optimistic I think I'm definitely Catastrophe saying about the they were unstoppable they had the club has chemistry they were doing the baby shark thing and then this weekend they just suffered a total offensive outage and really in the astros hit and pitched much better than they had and the nationals hit an pitched much much worse than they had and all of those things the story of this world series so far aside from the off the field stuff is that no home team has won a game yet and really that comes down directly to the fact that uh-huh video in Dutch announcing his choice I'd young man young mad but hey I'll I'll be happy to read for him in years to come I am doing it capitalized on whatever opportunities they've had and so the astros outscored nationals by a combined score of nineteen three this weekend I think that probably Oh yeah that was bad but back to me the next day starting pitcher classic Momentum Keller and then the next day starting pitcher wakes up and can't move his neck connected yeah I mean not that we needed another example of momentum not really mattering in sports but this would be exhibit a the nationals really had the big back from behind to take the lead since the fifth inning of game one so it's Sorta felt like whichever team took the lead was just GonNa hold onto it which has exit sound a little more lopsided than it was since there were some pack on runs late in those games that made them even less competitive but really we have not seen a team come oh as Josh Lyman put it on the West wing heading into the weekend but everything swung back in the direction of the Astros I mean the the nationals as you mentioned we're winning all their games pump teams are four for thirty eight with runners in scoring position in the series which means that the Astros had games one and two and the nationals in every game sense just have not hurt shoulder or anything which is bad he throws with if you need to professionally throw a baseball so I was thinking after the lander situation all set up and then Max Scherzer's dumb neck had to come in ruin everything ban like if like the nationals are you the serious news momentum is often killed by the next day's starting pitcher you're GonNa let Ben Getaway with a West Wing reference postseason opportunities he's never won a world series and here it is game five in DC pivotal game you know that he wanted to start as much as anyone humanly could who are like way more top heavy than the Astros and the you're heavy top has a bad neck then you're not in not in good shape he could not move his arm could not get out of bed without falling out could not get dressed on his own so there was just no question about whether he could take the ends prior to the world series got the ball and considering the circumstances and the competition Ross did okay but he would have had to be almost blois going up again pitchers in as many innings as possible in the national sporting games heading into game five they had used basically the pictures that they don't want to use for only nineteen the astros in this season before the series so I think the nationals were calling themselves a buzzsaw when the series started Stephen Strasburg setback hip yeah at nationals pitcher Dave Martinez has done a pretty good job of dealing with his team's top heaviness and he's managed to us just his best six subdued by the astros terrific pitching and how much is it just that the astros really have reverted to form yeah I think it's largely ladder note eighth or ninth inning to get to the bullpens and see who was fresher and who actually who could actually hit the ball and something would happen but the astros have been hitting so well and he just couldn't do it which has that Joe Russ who had not made a start since September and had not even been on the roster in the postseason you because yes there were questionable managerial moves that Martinez made although in retrospect maybe he knew that Sherzer might not be able to go and so he was sort of well I'm not sure that it would have mattered I I'm not sure it would have been determinative necessarily they hit three two run home runs last night it feels like every eight I came back to tie it at two like all right we're like now into the meat of the series is going to be exciting we've got our shirts Zor Strasbourg Cole you get the ball up he always want her formative leadoff perhaps yes said so we've all been joking throughout the series about Max Scherzer Must WanNa come into this gave in fat the Astros have been hitting a two run home run in this series so how much of this is the nats bats beings innings in total but on Sunday for Tina's family ran into a roadblock that he just couldn't manage around because Max Sherzer not only could pitch but literally is the first time all season that the nationals were held to fewer than four runs in three consecutive games so that has never happened before but the national said never even if you had had the optimal managerial moves and the perfect umpire strike zone odds are that that would not have changed things and it's sort of ashamed because own up for much of the postseason prior to this weekend then showed up all at once so it kind of takes away some of the talking points in some of the analysis that we could not totally irredeemable it's still still going on we still have the opportunity for for greatness we made it to the game sacks that could have been a sweep I just feel like I have to I'm curious what you thought about what both of you guys thought about the conversation about Barksdale Strike Zone in game five I think in all sports he performed up to their level in game one we got the Col- sherzer matchup but neither one of them was really peak coal hersher the people pointed out before the series probably the best collection of starting pitcher talent that we ever seen in a world series so that was pretty exciting but none of those pictures has really planning for that and what looks like lack of aggressiveness and the moment was just planning for the future but you could complain about some of those moves you could complain about her you know in relief the day after he starts like they Martinez must be fighting off mixers to get into this game so if Mexico's are says that he can't pitch and he's had this give and Max Scherzer is in addition to being one of the best pitchers in baseball he's almost abeam in that he is like the guy who never wants to that if you score one run you're almost certainly not going to win the game that there have been thirty two games I think this year in which an opponent scored one run against the Astros added now they've kind of run into the Assad themselves the Astros are the best team in baseball they have the best offense in baseball and stoically great offense that hadn't really superimposed on screen and we can see instantly whether pitches fall into it it is funny how the League and its broadcasting partners buck you up here Ben you've been very sad about how the series of been so lame with all the excitement going into it but you know I guess GonNa say one or two of them were clearly strikes a couple of them were right on the zone or outside zone and it is entertaining to see Yon Gomes's casting these games that were uncomfortable with the focus being on the two point line rectangle around the supposed strikes Gerry Cole and so we got denied the Garrett Cole Max Scherzer rematch that we were hoping to see here we were hoping for sort of a one one game that would come down to the there's and only one of them was a win back in April the twins manage to win a one nothing game huggins the astros just lender so that is not the way to win and after Barksdale apparently accused him of having bad framing on a clear strike borderline strike against Carlos Correa that led later are really like emphasizing when umpires do badly and just like you can't ignore it it's just like on the screen and you have to talk the bad strikes on just kind of like fills the conversational chasm but like with the way that you know the zone this week were sold a historic pitching matchup for the series it really seemed to be that when you put these two pitching rotations together this was as many an and plants in particular dislike we are more inclined to talk about things that are interesting or controversial and in in this game there wasn't anything really else to talk about on the field like if you want to talk about trump getting booed and so that and read his lips or union after his lips because you could hear the Mike wherever its position there him saying sarcastically Barksdale Oh it's my fault it gives those reports to them the next day after those some processing and some adjustments done to make it more accurate so that real time in the moment impression on TV for one thing it usually doesn't really adjust for each player's height it's just sort of a a standardized zone so that can be a problem and there's just some Eric were at least not yet so it just hasn't really delivered on the pre series billing we are going to get another Verlinden Strasbourg and game sex and so this series game I mean some of the calls that Barksdale was being criticized for him being criticized by the players on the field were obviously marginal error inherent in measuring the path of the pitch and cameras. Computers can be MIS calibrated when there's the and the camera angles leading to a two-run homer that put the Astros ahead but you know that's entertaining but for all of us at home too that's clearly striking it's not clear the strike because Ben about that in some respects but I think it's inevitable because it's just kind of an untenable situation here where we have access to this accuracy in this region last thing you said Josh is the most intriguing to me that Major League baseball allows this I'm because that's certainly in their purview to tell Fox or turner whoever's any assessment of its efficacy yeah I know that a lot of the players were unhappy with it partially because the rulebook zone zone that the computers called did is not always accurate but because it's right in front of our faces when the ball doesn't seem to go through that onscreen sewn it makes it pretty glaring and I think there were a couple of about that so that doesn't help but I think you know we are probably heading for a world where we do have computer called strike zones and I have mixed feelings S. seemed to possibly be struck out and then he got the that to continue and he went on to hit a home run so that obviously drives the memory home whereas if he had just grounded out and I guess game too was the closest we've come when you know we sort of had a duel between Berlin and Strasbourg but that was about Ed and you know we didn't even get the second Scherzer's imperfectly map onto how the strike zone has historically been called so you would get calls that technically were accurate but they never would have been called by a human so called it at strike and so some of that is just adjustment getting used to what the strike zone looks like and there were also issues with calibration though and sure had taken it for granted that there was going to be a strike call and he started whipping the ball around the infield and and then it was ruled ball evidently because he had been presumptuous or something after that no one would have cared that much and then there was a a waiter instance where it seemed like Barksdale was calling Bal as payback because Yang gums the nationals outs it's kind of like with replay review I think once fans watching at home in the ballpark has the ability to see these things slowed down and replayed and oh with certainty that the empire got the call wrong you can't really persist with the state of affairs where we just let incorrect call stand even the most correct aces in game five where it was exacerbated by the situation or by Barksdale response to the situation a there was the one where Carrasco perfect and I think at some point we will acknowledge that had get computers calling me so at the very least we won't get makeup calls and punishment calls and grants friend you know realms of human experience and so perhaps this is not an instructive and algae after all but there are a lot of pitches in every baseball is misleading to because it is not directly behind the pitch ray it's fine and that's always been an issue with us and when MLB Grades Empires based on the tracking technology because you have reported on this team and they're they're thinking in the front office does their performance in this world I some of these things being off it they're still some obstacles to getting this working perfectly in real time so that you could get the accuracy and not have a delay that every Ulster at two so even if you're ninety percent accurate you're still getting a quite a few calls wrong in every game so Doa pyre ever has a perfect game so we're GONNA in Strikes Empires get about ninety percents of their calls correct which is pretty good it's the best that a human could do but it's just an impossible job for a human to do zone out to their credit that they allow that to be well I think on the one hand it's to their credit but on the other hand I'm not sure it enhances much and does distract from the flow of the accused Stephanie Epstein The sports illustrated reporter of fabricating her report after that it was all just minimize and insincere apologies and that they are really taking a hard look at themselves they seemed perfectly willing to do nothing to put boilerplate statements out there even after their first statement where they this is for the way that they built baseball teams and being vindicated over and over as their baseball teams turned out to be the best perhaps the best of all time and so if they win another really doing the bare minimum I think while they were getting rightfully dragged whole week they kind of responded to that you know they claimed that they had been proactive doubt it but I think they were the opposite of proactive and really I think they may have gotten themselves into the situation by being so good at building baseball teams and by being early past every time that Steph Kramer the free throw that that seems seems a bit off but they're just different acceptable standards of error in Oh played pyre Lance Barksdale zone in game five which seemed to be floating all over the place and certainly seemed to hurt the nationals a couple times but ultimately it comes down to the fact zone as it's drawn in behind a camera if an hundred percent accurate is it the way on television it's definitely not the the real time zone that you see America electric cars a little different but new technology always seems weird at first even podcasts they seemed weird when they first came out in the early two thousands they were called audio blogs they were downloaded onto MP three players but now people all over the world listen to podcasts all the time just like podcast contract our statement but we will continue to operate because what are the penalties ultimately unless MLB imposes some discipline they keep winning they keep driving they will feel like this validates their approach or do you think that they're gonNA actually go back and question themselves and say talk about the Astros Front office and Brand Tob in our next segment with Lara Wagner we're also going to talk to you about your reporting on the Astra's in our slate plus Bouna segment ban you wrote about them in your buck with Travis logic then mvp machine but just at the end of this segment I wanted to ask a very kind of broad question with the more affordable models less routine maintenance they may actually help you save money electric cars they're normal now learn more normal now dot com being time so you don't have to wait around all day for charge they're more models to choose from sedans SEV's luxury vehicles and motorcycles you can find one that fits your life style most of our fans will forgive us and we will sacrifice this one person who is directly responsible and will apologize vaguely at first and then later assistant general manager Brandon Taubman quote turned to a group of three female reporters including one wearing purple domestic violence awareness bracelet and yelled cars are normal now they have long ranges meaning they're not just for work commutes you can take an electric vehicle dear weekend getaway and even on longer road trips they have faster recharge areas the fact that this is such a deep roster this is not a top heavy team this is one where throughout the lineup and Stephan said you guys hitting two run homers like do you feel like the Astros with all the negative press they've gone but with all of the success they've had in the past three years and in this world series do you feel like despite all the success we've had were still approaching this wrong and there are changes that we need to make because in the statements that we've heard it just does not seem like an organization that has like half a dozen times thank God we got Suna I'm so fucking glad we got a SUNA Osuna is Roberto Suna early pitcher the Astros traded for in two thousand World Series here than I think they may be thinking look we can whether this you know as long as we collect the most talented and put the best team together and win world series what would notice between the empire getting the green light or the red light from the system and actually making the call when you frame it around ninety percent it's really interesting it's just like ten percent adding as we sometimes do with human ups just quickly on this Ben do you have any sense of how this work during the experiment in the Atlantic League this summer week there were plenty of stories when it was happening but has there been I'm sure in the next segment but nothing about the Astra's response in the week you know following Brendan poppins outbursts than reporting about that has suggested have called being wrong seems bad but let me think like are we're getting mad at odds for like having the same accuracy rate is like Steph curry at the free throw line it's like getting rid ed so you can kind of get away with this Ben Lindbergh writes and talks about baseball for the ringer he's the CO author of the MVP machine and the only rule is last Monday night sports illustrated Stephanie Epstein published a piece in which he reported that and the Houston Astros champagne-soaked locker room immediately after they won the pennant the team it has to work and talking with a more about the astros and are better segment we will ben thanks a lot thanks guys this episode of Hang Up and listen as sponsored by electrified. Are you know a curveball that just nix the front of the zone and the dip below the plated was caught well below the plate that would be called Bala hundred percent of the time by human but the group we'll be here to discuss the Houston Astros massive world series come back that spends Laura Wagner will then join us stuck with the after massive world series failures executives an kind of deep sense of regret herself no tradition no not at all contrition was the word I was going to use the lack thereof I think you'll get into the detail testify but he was nevertheless distressed asset in purely economic terms and the Astros got him on the cheap assume that has been a good pitcher for Houston but on eighteen after he was suspended for seventy five games by Major League baseball for allegedly assaulting the mother of his child assume wasn't charged with a crime after the woman declined sorry apology structure and then they finally just yesterday issued a retraction of the other than issue a clear and formal statement and to say that the Astros don't have a cultural problem is just statements but then when GM and baseball operations President Jeff Luneau went before the media and really waffled basically wouldn't knows how the Astros Organization works I think the clearest indication of the way the Astros Organization actually felt about this came during obviously in the initial is going to be impossible to erase that initial message one in which the organization proved that massive arrogance was not just how much problem it's a character flaw affecting the entire today I'm sorry said that the statements were wrong but then went on to say that there were conflicting accounts and people's memories weren't clear it was initially called destroy misleading irresponsible and fabricated the team has since issued a bunch of apologies for that initial statement they've also fired Brandon Tau men but Ori stands in stark contrast to the Astros responses to it I was impressed by her piece when I read it initially the fact that she chose to themselves in that way but kind of the more the new cycles evolved and the week went on the more I was actually impressed with that initial story because Lara it's increased organization joining us now is dead spends Laura Wagner Hello Laura Hi so what stood out to you as the story has developed over the last week the biggest thing that stood up retract their initial statement accusing a reporter of the worst thing that a reporter can do and journalism I thought was just kind of a crazy illustration it's the outlet you take to the rest of the industry and in this case it's the outlook you take toward women employees women who work in this Space Stephanie Aberdeen's original insane at this point after what's happened this last week I don't think I've ever seen an organization misstep in sports as repeatedly as they did over the first five days I just don't understand what breeds that sort of arrogance in a sports culture and clearly it's the kind of people you're hiring it's the outlook you take to your colleagues statement that said Epstein fabricated and only after she asked them to retract it so the fact that this almost a week for them to yeah I think he said it's we'll never know we'll never know what happened right because time elapsed it's gone a puff of smoke we can't be sure rather truly they released a second set of statements from Taubman Jim Crane neither of which apologized in both of which kind of took the if anyone was offended already and then when you actually ask them to reflect the values that they claim to have they get all like angry and annoyed you for talking about something on a mess and who in the past is tweeted out the number for domestic abuse hotline during soon as appearances on the man for the Astros when Epstein's report when live the asked to me is just how many times they messed up handling the situation for says he said they accused Stephanie Obscene of fabricating the Story Than Event Doubly challenging to break news on something where the news is actually something that happened to you and the way that she was able to write accurately it turned doubt about what Tom and said and what he did but also there was some analysis in that piece about how teams like the Astros WanNa sign guys like Osuna they want right this when maybe some other reporters thank that it was kind of self obsessed you know why should we complain about how we were treated poorly some people just don't want to call attention to the Oh you right I was really impressed not only did she report on the story and report on it accurately obviously but she was also careful on her reporting I mean the fact that she included the detail about the woman who was wearing the purple domestic violence bracelet but did not identify the woman because she did not want to be identified it's like Oh this isn't about baseball like we've addressed that and I thought that piece was just like so smart and actually is something that if you're like an aspiring domestic violence and kind of point out the hypocrisies in how teams in the league deal with these players I I agree I thought it was really well done and say they want to have this press conference and say we zero talent for domestic violence they want to donate some six figure sum that's like a tiny percentage of Osuna salary to ride and then managed to kind of take this one incident and show how it relates to how MLB treats players who have been accused of story shortly after the Astros accused her fabricating it there's another reporter from Yahoo also confirmed the story shortly after it was reported so I think that journalists and journalism school I think they should teach this story it was like this is unbelievably good like covering breaking news with opinion and analysis where it's I'm glad that she wrote it I do think that this is a story that only a woman would right I think I mean there was a guy from the Houston Chronicle who confirmed the to sort of journalistic presence of mind to recognize that a it's a story and be this reflects badly on a senior executive in the sport yeah that's and I'm not quite sure how to process it it's uncomfortable the woman who he was directing his comments at certainly and I think it's partly about the astros but partly about the structure of Major League Baseball I think Tom is clearly you know knowing very little about it I completely separating out his personality or behavior he is incredibly good at his job and Astros Front office is incredibly good loop been extremely successful at reorienting the game at figuring out how to acquire talent and how to get rid of talent doc Graham and why does he think that because the team one hundred seven games this year because there are many dynasty they won the world series a couple of years ago and Mr Nothing about him before this is clearly arrogant clearly a thinks that he can say or do whatever he wants in this context of major league it has felt uncomfortable I mean she is a reporter it's not too difficult to identify who she is because of the details that NPR later reported in David Folkenflik story he's like CNN is like a genius and baseball yeah and so you hear something like that and what's your initial reaction it's well that was weird and a little scary people knew about it and the fact that she was the one to write it I think she deserves a lot of credit for that wrote it sort of what rises to in someone's brain different examples about how this the entire team is framed around winning and efficiency and that's it and this is kind of resulted in earlier you know this kind of Post Billy Bean moneyball scenario where these guys come in and they have as the loss of humanity from the front office it's all about ruthless quads maximizing efficiency in value and the argument makes the case that there's creating talent that God we don't need people to tell us that someone is good we can take someone by looking at them and make them good I mean Jeff Passan's at their job the reason that they're so arrogant is because they're the best in the business and in baseball there is this kind of Colt of the general manager in this is a story you know maybe it wasn't obvious to everyone was in the room because what your initial reaction to something like that it's like Oh this asshole I know who he is Brandon Todman he's deserve a lot of credit Stephan you vast rhetorical question before about what makes an organization act like this or do these things I think I have an answer for you not that tall been was directing his comments at her because she had tweeted out a number four domestic violence hotline whenever sooner would pitch so to have the front office executive he's number two in the baseball operations department a rising star in the sport and before this happened was I think everyone says was going to be a GM some team pick and choose who's GonNa be you know the best and most useful on the field and it's not the same in other sports like an NBA Messiah jury is the Laura where they think they answered to no one they think that they're like playing God and that obviously they can do and say story for ESPN about the culture of the Astros I think nailed that as well and the the the the image projected into the rest of major league baseball they do believe that they are better at identifying and not just identifying but has been Lindbergh's book with Travis Logic points out not just identifying talent but when it's like the the key to winning a championship is just like having the best players and baseball like the nationals get to the world series after getting rid of one of the most the most best executive and then be last year for the raptors and his genius move is like a trade for one of the greatest players and basketball it's like there's not as much you can do the player in the Game Bryce Harper and so these guys rightfully think that they are the reason that these teams are in the world series and so then you get this it is that's the reality of of how the media and Journalists Reporting Works Laura is that you start digging into something disgraced himself he revealed an exposed You know what this organization has to people who you know including us who might have been inclined to Wyan how this works like we were thinking about the Astros are this great team they've won so many games and we had I think forgotten about because of some like big external event some like shock to the system and otherwise we kind of all a lot of time go along recently and don't really like dig in and think about stuff like you know are these people like bad just kind of look at the results words yeah I think that's probably true although I will say that Diana Moskovitz had a really good piece on this a long time ago and call whoever they anyone anything Yeah Yeah Evan Drellich at the athletic had a really good story that's kind of making this point and laying out a bunch of attempt for the Astros runs deep and has well before this incident Jeff wrote jealousy breeds some of it the organizations arrogance accounts for the rest of the Astros painted themselves as disruptor forget it or not talk about it during this world series because we're like talking about you know Jose Altuve because he's so fun and tiny and his the reason not to so we have on our show last week he described the Astra's arrogant Stefan I don't think either one of us we're thinking about Roberta Sienna unraveled in the commotion they lived with the perception that they didn't understand people they fed their process followed it with fealty doubled down they believed in it and they never had and they never had much all the reporting that had been done in the past about the specifics of this team's arrogance and so it takes an incident like this like that's what Talmon did he not only kind of it's sort of losing part of their humanity in the front office will in part of that is of course because the Astros of systematically reduced the number of actual talent scouts in their organization that Unequal Major League Baseball is even relative to other sports Richard Lap Chick does this annual gender and racial report card on whether it's an incident like this are kind of like consistent low grade discomfort like I think that's a good point to make Stephan that this is not nine or women the nationals eighty nine baseball ops jobs three filled by women and this was a workplace harassment episode scenario where it's like even if women are accepted as like you're literally allowed to be in the locker room it's still not necessarily comfortable place yeah I agree and that's why I think at that point and so when we kind of asked him followed question what do you mean it was the conversation proceeded more in kind of generalities and that shows like it was so insane that Astros first statement was that this was fabricated because everybody has accepted at this point that women do face challenges nations teams d plus I mean the Astros if you look at their baseball operations personnel list on line forty three positions together over this issue and you don't see that that often there is if you like are willing to wait until the Cesspool share a lot of people who are saying this is beating a dead horse deft but the conversation now should be about is this workplace a workplace that say for women or that you know there's just awards for last year and IT'LL BE CENTRAL OFFICE ON GENDER EQUITY GETS A C grade from him senior administration at teams seem minus professional administered waiting to see everyone rally around her and support her like that it was almost like there was an informal unionization happening around this one issue of sports writers all band ACACIA technology simplisafe can visually confirmed that a break in is happening lying police to get to the scene three and a half times faster than other home security talk some more with Ben Lindberg and we're going to continue our conversation about the Astros Brennan Tom men and their arrogance as companies they make it easy no contract no hidden fees no fine print prices are always fair and honest and around the clock monitoring just fifteen dollars a month and for listening default for the initial behavior but they have prolong this news cycle by putting out a horrible statement like literally every day sure we're beating a dead horse this happened location or others in the team lar- Wagner of deadspin thank you for being here thanks for having me this episode of Hang Up and listen is sponsored by there any dissenting voices here either the support for Stephanie Epstein among writers and other journalists was unanimous as far as I could tell yeah and I thought it was kind of hard yes we've been talking about this for a week now like it's done let's get over it talk about baseball and it's really the Astra's own fault I mean obviously it's the Astros is bring up the issue of women in the Locker Lisa Olson was you know who was famously. An awfully sexually harassed by the New England patriots in the nineteen eighties was saying didn't report on it or tweeted out until Sunday morning so no this is still happening the other thing that really hasn't happened because of all this dithering by the Astros we still don't know who in this organization please safe only one in five homes have a home security system most companies really don't make it easy but now you can say goodbye to the hassles with simplisafe simply dot com slash hang up today simplisafe dot com slash hang up all right I wanted to let you know that in our bonus segment for slate plus members were going week ago well we're recording this on Monday the astros owner didn't issue that apology to Stephanie Epstein until Saturday night and APP Stein Baseball is said to be investigating maybe there will be some sort of punishment to Luneau who's admitted reading that statement before it went out the first one that accuse Stephanie Epstein trying to prove that I agree GIS statement and Brandon Taubman is the only person in the Astros Organization that has suffered any repercussions for the organization's behavior Majorly thath pushed to the side or the other thing that I think gets pushed to the side and I think we've done that a little bit right now is that we forget how gender thirty five dollars for the first year can do that at slate dot com slash hang up plus sign up at slate dot com slash hangup plus the NBA has been act for about a week now which means there aren't nearly enough data points to Dell's anything about how this season is going to play out but actually let's be real we know how at least Oh did you hear the part though where draymond paused for like half a beat after we SA- fucking suck before he said right now that is what they call optimism that's organization is a front office wrote about it in his book the MVP machine we will inquire if you want to hear that and you're not a member you can sign up for sleep plus just ED projects every door window and remove your home twenty four seven professional monitoring the one thing that truly make simply safe standout is it's video on twitter like at least we're at the point our no one is questioning whether Stephanie APPs Dean or any of these other women deserve to be in the locker room like that is we'll have to see a play harder that'll help a little bit but the reality is we fucking up right now Winston Cunningham a staff writer and Co Theater critic at the New Yorker I think we got that with the Spanish Red Vincent Yeah I mean he's coming across pretty clear for me is that men don't in sports media in locker rooms and that I think that's pretty well established and agreed upon so for the Astros to say that she just made it up didn't make any sense the optimism the warriors maybe two they may have been losing to the thunder by thirty three at halftime but they only suck right now presence of mind that's good perspective I love them so it's like you know I thought they would be okay that defense would be not so great but they'd be able to kind of make up for it what I didn't really account for was the total ars of hang up and listen simplisafe has a huge deal going on right now go to simplisafe dot com slash hang up and get free shipping a money back guarantee that simply safe Thompson playing without Igwe you've let go iggy and Shaun Livingston and demarcus cousins and Quinn Cook and this is what you're left with yeah this is in writing off these warriors my always figured hey like steph still their dream on still there and I actually a big deal fan AAC tweets that the Washington Wizards send out it's like a whole new mentality for the whole organization how are you adjusting to these new look ad warriors well it's been really rough for me because I honestly I spent all summer sort of befuddled at the prognostications of doom and totally Amazon's GonNa play out the next appear bad clippers seemed good the K. Dealers Klay less warriors I'm actually GonNa pass them to Draymond Green for this assessment asked for peace ever in the history of the NBA and there's always been these questions vincent about how good are valuable he really has an it's all mm drama the warriors official Twitter Account Vincent is tweeting stuff like tough one and Hook as the and learn and move forward these are the tweets of about context when you're a complimentary player and this was one of the questions about this team is like when your accounting draymond green to score a lot you're probably going to be disappoint the blowout factor there the warriors are very very young to what is it nine players that are twenty three or younger I mean there really is only so much that for the incredible things that he does and you see he's still scoring and do his all over the place where this team steph curry is but it's not the same he doesn't kind of asking these questions and thinking about this so we talked about this stuff along time ago too we didn't we weren't talking about it during the world series now definitely it's definitely third quarter debt nation that usually happens just there was nothing even close to it because nobody had to pay attention to his teammates so it just shows you how contingent all that stuff and apparently so far what he can do is tell his teammates that they suck yeah it's rough because I mean even just last season the two of them can do right now absent a third wheel Klay Thompson and absent some of the other good players that allowed to leave I mean it's not like any of these young guys nick athletes but on a different scale that's the same thing with Steph right we part of what's so devastating about him that has been surrounded by people who are able to make space precisely what they're left with draymond has always been a guy who's amazing on a great team he is like the the in speaking of contingency opening night of the NBA The national TV schedule as Pelicans and raptors the pelicans level of national interests in the Kansas highly contingent on a healthy healthy need Zion Williamson I enjoyed watching the pels take the raptors over time I'm not sure arriving that team like with his well and with his good play to success and so it does lead you to wonder like what can he do with just force of well with this roster you're assuming everyone knows that his knee isn't healthy his knee is not healthy he's out for however long he's out where he had surgery we're not concerned at all anyway back to back to Allen couple months ago and the finals in the series before the finals against Portland you just saw him sorta dislike he had kind of lost that is now mythical twenty five most of America did but the bigger you know sorry raptors the like more interesting game and I Open I was Lakers and clippers the first game of lack of depth elsewhere so it's actually been a rough transition for me I found myself watching that okay see game just kind of in a state of it was it was really really really bad incredible sort of toward a foresee this round after round even as his leg was more and more hurt at least to all appearances so hopefully we'll get better I will continue working to try to get better but we just not that good right now I mean I I don't know what better way to frame now for you or Lebron and a D versus Leonard Paul George is out with an injury in you say Zionism out with injury I mean this is the problem yeah I said healthy need towns and was just sort of rushing the court made everything he did look beautiful I mean everything is so contextual and it shows you the importance of contingency and basketballers hey so the first game of the brand Anthony Davis versus Quite Leonard The Clippers Paul George is out but this shows the importance of having a good he just kept on getting better and it seems like just these on uninterrupted trajectory since then He seems to have gotten somehow even more muscular that guys `bout watching on the Clippers Kinda what did you see from him in that game he was just amazing and last year was this it was seventy two thirty seven at halftime that's really really bad. The final score was one hundred ninety two really do not indicate yeah the the deep roster and the NBA The clippers bench and that game outscored the Lakers like a million to to and then you wrote a really nice piece for the New Yorker version of draymond green that's drafted by the Nixon who we think of as just a guy you know another person on the list of you know sort of mediocre the amazing pedigree no either it's not like there's like a amazing young talent up and down this roster and they need to like figure it out as the season so you're playing with in it but he just has this force of will about him and there have been times throughout this dynastic run where despite all the talent they have it has been draymond who's been tonight tab men was shouting about him he'd give up a game tying home run later reporting revealed the Taliban was taunting one woman in particular a reporter who has thus far preferred to stand Taylor knocker try splash Ryan really really the best way I tell it to you right now joining us now is he just knows exactly what he wants to be and he's got this weird upright posture where he just kind of it just looks like he's walking over to the spot and if there's somebody on on it he says looks like he's like a basketball is secondary the his eventual bodybuilding career and he just gets to these spots and just knocks people over and it just Stephon pats s I'm Josh Levin Remembers Almost Eighty and thanks for listening early season storylines they are excited about or not excited about Benton well one of the things that I always love about sort of the beginning of the season is just looking to see the past Lebron James do but I still think depression to forecast a early season players only meeting it's gotTa happen what other kind of in clinically as an athlete could view where he lives and where he works he makes wanting to play for the Lakers just seem like a fundamental I moved to L. A. Actually reflects leaning into his own unpopularity because nobody actually in La cares about the clippers even when the clippers board and off the court as little as possible off the court and that makes sense for him and he is he's viewing this about as objectively and I was like that thing's GonNa pop it's unbelievable I didn't realize Stephan before seeing this game how much this move good in the Lakers are terrible like it's truly events of the deep understanding of self for Coli Leonard to sign on to this team there's an melons for biceps you wrote thank you it's amazing I don't know how he keeps flexible but those shoulders as I'm doing a jump shot yeah well I mean doesn't that sort of fit in with his previous homes to I mean this is his brand in a way to do on the much eventual second round exit we Lakers or two and one so they only lost to the clippers they don't they don't they don't look as bad as some of into the playoffs instead on the first couple of games of the season they've been they've been awesome and Co is kind of the whole reason there I'm just going to quote you because this was lovely he has volleyballs for shoulder it is like extremely well-constructed and seem set up to just run through the Lakers and and everybody else and yet that no one will like or care about flaw and weakness it's just like Anthony Davis like you like willingly signed on to play with the I mean like we're talking ourselves into at this point like Dwight Howard unlike time it looks awesome it's like Rozan Rondo do I had Howard and I don't know it's but it's funny great in the future I'd like that was the that was the Jason Tatum a trap but like it turns out trae young has just awesome now he just figured out exactly what he's supposed to be so excited I for Kawhi like you could talk about it in terms of marketability he has an terminator commercial which is very awkward and I think has been over praised but I didn't realize how oh go kristaps Porzingis made it three from the logo it's like what is that like thirty thirty five feet away I feel like this is the next all these great defensive players like Patrick Beverley and mantras Harrell and they're all just like it just seems like a team that's running like like they're like on the way time and then they have like the locker room like a players only meeting about it and then there's one big trade it's just like you kind of forecast your way all the way to the end with the statement wants to be a franchise cornerstone and they just extended him and they're not in a bad position I mean they've got Marcus Allen Kyle lowry still but they're not on like super long term deals they do have a bunch of young talent and so I think they ended up you know they got a title and they're like they didn't have to totally of people like that I'm excited about Pascal Siaka excited about all these people that gave us some glimpses in years before and and are coming into it now should we feel inch thread throughout the year Benson yeah the Lakers thing is so strange because I don't know it looks it it's a team that looks like if you take everybody away from their location sad about the raptors in any way that hey we saw the best interest of them last year or do we genuinely believe that they have a chance of getting back to at least the Eastern Conference finals who actually got better when you know that we kind of part of the illusion especially I I find it the NBA if songs was good last year then you know they're going to be Ed Lebron always finds himself in the situation and it's Kim One other person and then we get twenty games of the season and it's like Oh Lebron's team isn't good and we do thing we could NBA season was and that opening game between the Pelicans and the raptors where it was tied in the last minute and the raptors like I think it was after a time out they like cleared out and just had Norman Powell at the top of the key just like dribble and ran out the shock and shot like a thirty footer it was extreme heard like speaking speaking of of volleyball grapefruits like our looks pretty good but like he's still fundamentally Dwight Howard I don't I don't know if that's going to change I don't think they'd be the favourite Celtics and bucks are all ahead of them as Vinson was saying Siachen is really really good and he has the seem to be like a sort of basic geometry problem I wonder what the limit is is half court the limit is there no limit is ninety four feet the limit I just feel like if the logo actually wasn't on the floor there would be no reason for players from that spot on the court no it's right even now things seem like regular three point China thing just recedes even further into the background and I think what thing excuse me there's this big country there is a tweet the course of a play the other night and I would just kind of thinking about that he efforts while they like to do it and it's a great highlight and also every year we get an influx of sort of certainly there are plenty of reasons to insult them necessarily and let's wrap this up by noting that now that the games have started where a weekend the whole like just another kind of reminder indicator that the fact that Daryl Morey tweeted when he did was just like the precise rape block what was that last night against Kyrie Irving yes Sunday night against Kyrie irving the grizzlies to overtime against the nets and then they ended time when it was calibrated to get the most attention like there is nothing else going on in the League to distract actually quite the opposite because the teams were an anonymous winning that game in the thirty points nine assists had the game winning assisted Jae crowder with like under a second to go for the winning three pointer that guy he's awesome ace is is is a continuing problem I think so it's like the only way we can make space for ourselves and continue to shoot a bunch of threes is just to go back and back and back this franchise had you know follow up from last year's final but raptors won't be bad back to trae young for a second he has been shooting all these threes from the the NBA. It's like it feels like Vincent players just enjoy shooting from there and it's like it's incredibly fine highlight to watch but there was no there was no bouncing ball distracts well I would say there's a third hand here and I think that Adam silver in the NBA are still going to be incredibly concerned her and there's the details are getting a little fuzzy but you know on the one hand is obvious and predictable that this was gonNA happen on the other a paragraph from the Washington Post's account of the Great Walter Johnson pitcher Walter Johnson big train his nuptials back in nineteen fourteen now it is time for after Balls Josh I think we should dive back into Washington baseball history dive Emma Bachelor Areas Sports illustrated tweeted out twenty-fifth nineteen fourteen issue of the Washington Post Walter Johnson world's champion pitcher yields the palm to Cupid and weds Miss Hazel Lee I love God and gracefully surrendered when Walter Johnson of The Washington American League team was quietly married last night to Miss Hazel Lee Roberts Roberts the world's greatest pitcher before who's resist Lewis arm all other rivals have gone down to defeat met his master in the mortgage their future to get it so we're all good yeah kind of like it yeah they've got people who we got to see in the finals last year and seamless they'll be getting better like not just the but for not much we can say about the Knicks are going to be terrible we've already alluded to house John Maranto doing looks he looks pretty great I mean he took take care good for the record will be potentially a starter in the NBA Yeah Knicks Fan. As instill scared Shitless Benson Cunningham writes about theater and basketball for the New Yorker thanks as always bank you and thirteen straight news stories from one thousand nine and laugh about how silly and anachronistic everything they did the tumult and the shouting gauge of the as three point revolution don't you get a car for making much us this is like the game of vacation of the Johnson at the hand crank it to get going I think we'll go with Miss Hazel Lee Roberts all right Stephane what's your Miss Hazel Lee Roberts well there was a lot of his is it like what's your wizard like prowess teammates didn't know Walter Johnson private guy teammates didn't know he was getting married the bride wore cream lace dress the first week of the season there are still serious serious repercussions than just because wore not as focused on it as we were when there were no games being played doesn't mean that the NBA over were heading to China just like how and we talked about this a little bit with the Astros on the world series to just shows like how easily where distracted by the bouncing ball world series was one thousand nine hundred forty eight when the homestead grays won the Negro League's version but actually the grays played all of those series Games road because the Washington fell team was using Griffith stadium so actually the last world series game played in DC before this weekend was in one thousand nine hundred forty five also the homestead grays I looked up that series the grays two year run as champions ended in four straight games at the hands of the he's one of these one of these people but you can tell everybody likes playing with the people I've spots fungi to watch really fun but you kinda grazed over RJ Barrett who tis makeup in noticing just like easily afoot behind right I think everything has moved back people just kind of I watched Joe Joel embiid take one that was in like a twenty four footer in the like integration which black writers like Smith had been championing for years and this was much more interesting to me than the reports on the grays losing earlier and in forty five under pressure from progressive politicians and public figures New York Mayor Fiorello Laguardia had established the Mayor's committee to integrate baseball urging all three in New York teams to sign black players Smith got hold of a statement given to the committee by the President of the Yankees Lee macphail Smith called mcphail that's true and you know teams want to six seconds or less so yeah maybe that's not a very what what rookies do we like so far is out for a few weeks. Rj Barrett the Knicks. I mean you know under of representative e e Roberts of Nevada at the home of the bride's parents the Raymond Apartment House fourteen ninety eight Monroe Street northwest podcasts in nineteen aimed three in DC was a four nothing shutout the legendary African American newspaper reporter Wendell Smith of the Pittsburgh Courier wrote that the sweep was one the mouth freckle-faced Mary Mack Madcap Larry Loquacious Larry and uncle Larry I found mcphail's you know starter quality defenders who are incredibly fast and strong and big and everything else like there's there's nowhere else to go like the the biggest surprises in Baseball History Smith's column about the series had longer second section about the latest news and baseball's slow road let's celebrate them where we're a little bit late but hey the johnsons the gifts are in the mail for sure this was in the Ericans cared mainly about quote the excellence of performance in sport rather than the color race or creed of the performer then he blamed groups of political problem was that people just didn't understand the complex business of baseball indeed mcphail's first argument against integration in that statement was that under contract there wasn't a single black player good enough to play in the majors anyway and the Negro Leagues didn't deserve cooperation because they lacked quote a sound he has looked better than I think people thought he might have looked at and before the season started so let's give some credit there no need just to insult the next confusing it's like do they realize that this is Norman Powell it's like a it it definitely showed the like the cliff which greeted his wizard like prowess at the baseball park we're in striking contrast with the exclusive and simple ceremony at the home of the bride whereas the part where we get to that after LB derived substantial revenue from operations of the Negro Leagues Talk About showing your ass the Yankees he admitted netted almost one hundred art branch rickey of the Brooklyn Dodgers signed Jackie Robinson to play for the team's minor league affiliate in Montreal Ricky gave a two hour and fifteen minute interviewed a Wendell L. dollars a year hosting Negro League games and didn't want to give that up mcphail also said that integration was impossible because Negro Leagues players were already Smith Smith wrote that quote heavyset bespectacled diamond mogul signed Robinson because he believes the Negro shortstop is great statement online it was acquired by the Negro Leagues Museum in Kansas City a few years ago it is a testament to the arrogance excuse making victim blaming and straight out racism go operations basis and quote when they'll Smith dismembered macphail in his column not just through insults I he noted that mcphail had been an army colonel the majors ammo Smith wrote was to quote Soak Negro League owners for everything but the air consumed within the confines of the Parks Strip them of everything all and social minded drum beaters for trying to force. Mlb To integrate baseball actually wasn't a Jim Crow operation mcphail said the covering a cream Taffeta skirt because everyone wants to know where I was wearing Stephan what's your cream Taffeta skirt no let's get let's get on no car wouldn't start after the ceremony when the war fighting to perpetuate the ideals of democracy now macphail was quote through waving the flag he's going back to business as usual aspect and because his conscience would not permit him to wallow in the mire of racial discrimination and quote Robinson debuted with the dodgers in April nineteen fifty five one last actually Josh after Sunday night DC has an hosted a world series victory since one thousand nine hundred eighty four when the homestead grays ensue have paid a lot of money to go to this world series and DC tickets are going for a thousand dollars on the secondary market even if you've paid face value it's like three hundred bucks to get into actually are actually the last time in Washington team was in the world series was nineteen thirty three when the senators lost but actually the last time in Washington team was they can without being illegitimate and then add pain to misery by saying get yourselves straightened out Major League teams charged

Astros Houston Astros Josh Levin Slates National Editor New England patriots Bala Lakers NBA Ben clippers Laura Wagner hundred percent ninety percent thirty five dollars fifteen dollars nineteen years ten percent three years five days
Hang Up: What Was The Last Dance?

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1:15:26 hr | 9 months ago

Hang Up: What Was The Last Dance?

"The following podcasts contains explicit language people who are listening for the first time my here bad word to Hi Josh Levin Slates National Editor and the author of the Queen. This is hang up and listen for the week of May Eighteenth. Two Thousand Twenty on this week. We're going to do our last ride with the last dance. Assessing the final two episodes the documentary and the series as a whole. We'll also be joined by broadcaster. I ego we'll speak with us about the challenge of Calling Games remotely. Finally we'll talk about a new. Nfl proposal would give teams better draft picks if they hired minority head coaches and general managers. Hello from Washington C. Home of your Washington Wizards an NBA team that exists just throwing that out there also in DC is friend colleague Documentary Aficionado. Stephan fats US author of the Book Word. Freak and a few seconds of panic. Hello Stephan I hear that Michael Jordan guy played for the Washington Wizards dirty vicious rumor. Also with US Samantha and for winning on the track in the crossfire gem and a little game that we call life slade staff writer. Slow-burn host Joel Anderson schedule. Hey Good morning. I'm not the loser. That Michael Jordan thinks this leave it at that. Think no better way. To and our pre show banter after ten hours an untold number of cigars. Glasses of Scotch and perceived BA last dance at waltzed offspring on Sunday night but Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls winning their sixth and final championship. Although there was a notable segment on the murder of Steve Kerr's father in Beirut the last twenty percent of ESPN's documentary series mostly focused on basketball with an emphasis on the Bulls battles with the Indiana Pacers and the Utah Jazz towards the end of the series owner Jerry. Reinsdorf gave his explanation for this series of central mystery. Why break up a team? That had just wanted all for the third straight time. Reinsdorf said that Scottie. Pippin Denis Rodman Ron Harper Steve Kerr were too old and expensive and bringing them all back for a run at eighty seventh title would have been suicidal Jordan. Watching reinsdorf on an IPAD says that this is rubbish that everyone should have had the opportunity to come back and do it all over again and in the documentary we hear this exchange so is it then SAS fine to leave at your pink or is it madden is maddening. Because I felt like we could one seven. I really believe that we may not have but bad just not able to try S S. Something that I just can't except for whatever reason I just can't accept it so this is where we leave Michael Jordan Joel. He's unable and unwilling to accept the storybook ending that he wrote by sticking that jumper over Brian. Russell in Utah He doesn't acknowledge that he did write a new less story. Bookish ending for himself in Washington. Dc But he's also I think justifiably annoyed that the Bulls Dynasty ended the way that it did. Yeah the ending to me. In many ways undermined the premise. That Jerry Krause was villain here in confirmed the Jerry. Reinsdorf held a lot of the cards. Here it is important to acknowledge that though the idea that it would have been suicidal. Bring Back Dennis. Rodman Scottie. Pippen Kerr and Luc. Longley among others seems ridiculous. But it's not necessarily wrong. If you consider the fact that Scotty and Dennis were significantly diminished the next year and the lockout shortened season. Michael Jordan sliced his finger. Walk cutting a cigar that off season and would have missed at least a few months and it wasn't even clear that Scotty and some of those other guys wanted to make the kind of sacrifice that would have been necessary to return for another year. So although Ryan's door is technically right and that the Bulls probably would not have won a championship or they would not have been the same team that they had been the year before he didn't want to pay for it and he allowed Jerry Krause sort of stand in the breach there and take all of this abuse. It seems like he was pulling the strings behind the scenes all the time. Yeah that seems like a good assessment. Joel I mean did REINSDORF Call Phil Jackson and ask him to come back because he had second thoughts and wanted to overrule Jerry Krause. That's what he says did Phil Jackson. I WanNa take a break. It wouldn't be fair to Jerry Krause to overrule him. That seems plausible as well. I mean the part that is most ridiculous here involves Jordan and Jordan's belief that if he and he alone had told Scottie. Pippen Steve Kerr and Dennis Rodman and Ron Harper. That they should come back for one more go round a diminished salaries. They would have been willing to do that. And that's not clear to us because nobody else has asked in the documentary whether they would have been willing to do that maybe they were. This was enough for them. You know they've one three or six or some number in between and they were ready to go play somewhere else and not get yelled at all the time as a tourist grant or Luc Longley or somebody else said in a previous episode. Well Scotty is the interesting question. There I think Jordan we do hear from Jordan that everybody except Scotty definitely would have agreed to do it which I think is probably true and then he sort of kind of waves away the Scotty question. It's like yeah that would have been an issue but if everybody was coming back then Scotty wouldn't have missed out on that. We don't hear what Scottie Pippen's answer to that as we don't know if he was asked and didn't answer we don't know if he was asked and answered and they didn't put it in the documentary. Which would have been aware choice? Or we don't know if he wasn't asked but that was a huge missing piece that we didn't hear from Scotty Pippin on that question and you know we've lingered a lot on the stuff that we don't hear and that we don't see in this documentary the fact that Jordan's tenure with the wizards wasn't even mentioned in the onscreen text crawl at the end was weird but the biggest mission to me. You know if we're going to just say all right. We'll take documentary on. Its own terms. These last two were on about basketball. Mostly you know. Seemed like they were edited. More quickly Because they they didn't have much time to finish these these last two. But you know the person we didn't hear from such an interesting character. Here is Brian Russell. Who Jordan says in his hall of fame speech you know. He tells the story that he tells here about how Brian Russell like talk shit to him during the baseball year. During a pickup game. And saying you know you quit because you know I could lock you down on defense and this was another of the slights that drove Jordan. I put him on my list. Good but Brian. Russell is a guy who had to work really hard to get into the NBA. He was a guy who had his moments in those NBA finals series. But he was also somebody that he was. The Guy who you know doubled off of Jordan till like double team Scottie. Pippen post to allow Jordan to make like a game. Winning three one of his final series Jordan made two game winning shots over him. And we don't hear from him and he's a you know his perspective on this in his journey here. I think are extremely interesting and probably would be more revelatory than anything we hear from Jordan. What's what's interesting to think about here. And of course. It doesn't come up in this documentary. Is that Baron? Russell played with Michael Jordan in his last year. With the wizards and so. I don't know that has anything to do with why we didn't hear him here if they did not interview him at all but it is worth noting that he had a relationship with Michael Jordan. That went past that. You know that time with the Bulls. He got the experience Michael Jordan in the locker room in see the kind of do that. He was dealt with a day to day basis and all of a sudden we. We don't hear from him even though he plays this pivotal role in making machine of Michael Jordan. So I can think of a lot of reasons why you can hear him. I'm sure they wanted to talk to him and he just didn't WanNa talk. I mean that seems like like explanation but it's it would have been nice to hear from him Absolutely should we talk about the pizza? Yeah let's talk about the well. This is all going back to the myth making machine around the Jordan brand right like first of all. Why would you ever eat anything? Brought to your house by five people at once. Like it's not clear WHO's deliver? Who like why were there? Five people necessary to bring a pizza to your room Joe. I think we need to set the context here for a no we do. We do we right. So this is the hundred ninety. Seven finals against Utah. The Bulls are in Utah and before game. Five Jordan is hungry late at night. He's with his guys in his room and they have apparently Decem and not had dinner with him for some reason and Jordan says I'm hungry and so his people order him a pizza. That's the setup. That's the setup. Well I mean it sounds like you're the one buying into the myth making here like the documentary wants you to believe that somehow sketchy that five people are delivering the pizza to him But the director in an interview after this episode aired was like. I don't believe that Michael Jordan was poisoned and then seemed like unable or unwilling to answer the question of like. Why did you put something in the? Why did you insinuate something and the documentary that you don't believe like you're left with your left to believe the Michael Jordan was poised. Yeah RIGHT THE PEOPLE OF UTAH. Yes and that's also that how food poisoning works like you don't like normally takes like twenty four hours before something like that really starts to bubble. I mean maybe Michael Know. Michael Jordan has a body that is unique to Oliver so maybe poisoning metabolize based pizzas and four hours or less right the part of the documentary interview that Jason here did with Jalen rose and Jacoby on ESPN. That was very jordan-esque. Is that in describing the scene? The director says that he told him that the pizza arrives. Jordan doesn't want anyone else to eat any of it so he spits on the pizza to reserve it for himself. This is weird behavior. He treated everybody like Horace Grant. Then you WANNA eat horace grant allow horace. Grant wasn't allowed to eat if I didn't think he should eat and guess. This rule applies to all of his friends friends and quotes by the way. Yeah it's just your Georgia's an exceedingly weird dude and we don't see in this one of the problems with the documentary and I'm GonNa say some nice things about it eventually but we had twenty two years to sort of really investigate. The claim here right that the flu game. This is something that happened and it was the flu in quotes. And we're left with the same mythology the same like you know insinuation. That Michael Jordan overcame an obstacle placed in his way. Not that this is something that he did to himself which you know he was sick because it's something that he may have done to himself for that he just a normal human got sick before a game that no this is yet another brick in the foundation. That Michael Jordan was constantly overcoming things that were placed in his way. And that just said this is the story. This is the story that Michael Jordan has tells himself about the flu game. The flu is to human. The flu is normal. I got sick. I don't know how but I got sick. So he has created a story that is more dramatic. And More self-centered the fans of Utah wanted a poison. Me AND FIVE. Jude's working at a pizza shop. Got An order. Knew it was a delivered to my room knowing that I was the only one that was going to eat it and then I got sick and went out and torched Utah the next night. One of the five delivery people at a poison tipped umbrella suspicious. He was driving batmobile to. Well you guys. You guys said a couple weeks ago and I think I questioned at at the time. But you're right knowledge that this documentary was designed to give Jordan the last word on every topic very true accurate conservation. And that's all the absence of all the wizards stuff is is one part of it. The way that the director acknowledges not believing certain things that are said but not including interviews or material that might undercut it. It's pretty damning right. I mean it's not journalistic. It's not what you would do if the thing that you care about. Most is presenting an accurate and truthful picture of of what happened so You know the other thing. That's like Super Weird and the last episode of the series is that we learned that Michael Jordan has children right. Jeffrey Marcus and Jasmine Jordan. Make on camera appearances where they say nothing interesting. They're just like Oh yeah we didn't like Utah and one is left to conclude since we're just kind of talking about insinuations here that they were added at the end because people noticed that they weren't in the documentary. Like that's the only explanation that makes sense. That Jordan Jordan has a family. Let's let's include that. Yeah I mean there wasn't really a place for them here. I mean I don't. I don't think we needed Jordan's kids to understand that Playing in Salt Lake City was really difficult. You know. I don't know what they had to add there but you know it. Does you know the criticism that there were no family members. There there Michael Jordan was a you know this lone wolf. They had no family. I think misunderstands the criticism in rebutting. Yeah Right Right. I do want to say this because I do think that the final two episodes where real payoff of the documentary and that the behind the scenes footage was supposedly. The you know th the foundation of this. That's what everybody wanted to see. And this is how this whole project happened. Well we finally got to see it right. We finally got to see Dennis. Rodman running away from the media after skipping out for wrestling do in. W. W W wrestling event. We get to see Phil Gathering at the team to tell them. The dentist dishonored them. We get to see my you mind telling Larry Bird. Hey Bitch fuck you you know. We get a lot of that stuff. And that's the stuff that I think that people wanted to see because that was that was what it was building. Oh these behind the scenes footage of Jordan's last year will here. It is and I'm glad we got to see it. I you know so. I was fascinated by the documentary all the way throughout inspite of the criticisms we have but it was this sort of stuff seeing Michael Jordan dancing to Kenny lattimore. Tombs is sort of stuff that you wanted to see. You hope that you would see when we got started on this five weeks ago. Yeah and the footage that I felt encapsulated. The entire documentary was after they win the last game in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight and Jordan walks into the locker room a lot of the players already there because he's been doing interviews or whatever and the greetings he got worse. Oh half hearted that it was really jarring to me and the after party scenes were also really weird. Jordan feels very isolated. It doesn't feel like his teammates. Once they get off. The court are particularly interested in sharing this moment with him or even look terribly excited about what they've just accomplished. Think you might be projecting a little bit there. Players seemed pretty happy to Miami and especially on the court. I don't know man. It was a lot of sort of half ass handslaps walking around the room. I will say this. I've been on a thirty for thirty bins in the last month. Or so. So revisited. The documentaries on Magic Johnson Dennis Rodman and the bad boys among others in what I did notice by comparison that those bulls celebration seemed a lot more subdued in stilted after that initial burst of euphoria. Right like everybody gets excited on the court. There is the burst of euphoria of euphoria. But then you see in these other documentaries Magic Johnson. You know hardly hugging people and porn champagne on each other. And it's like everybody is like very happy there's a lot of warmth in a camaraderie. I didn't see that in any of these bull celebrations not in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight. Yes certainly not in nineteen ninety eight. Maybe that's just the mission of editing or whatever. Maybe that's just an editing choice and we didn't get to see that but I didn't get the same feelings of warmth from those championships. In comparison to the other ones that we saw with other superstars right. What about the warm exchange between Jordan and Leonardo Dicaprio? Leonardo DiCaprio was famous then on second thought the the lack of warmth that I'm talking about was after they beat the Pacers before he tells bird. Fuck you so. I guess it was only the Eastern Conference finals and it was only game. Seven but yeah. They didn't look very excited. Well there was the sense that this was a relief that there's a lot of pressure and it was a huge burden on them the whole season. So that's fair enough. I mean I think the thing that was really revelatory to me and back to what I said. An introduction is that after Jordan goes through his whole spiel on How was unfair and unjust that they weren't given a chance to when seven title Phil Jackson like. Yeah it was time to end. It was a good team. It's time to go. We're we're ready. That have been done Phil Phil. Jackson has his own problems. Certainly not a perfect guy but that does I think in very short form. Encapsulate the difference between those men and also just between Jordan and other people who are more I guess I'm motionlessly available or like not stunted is just the idea that like you should be grateful for the good things that happen to you and your life and hold on to those and he had a really really great. Ron May the one of the best rounds ever But he just really hangs on to everything that was taken from him that he was deprived of that. He was denied that other people tried to stop him. And you know maybe that propels you to greatness. Maybe you think that propels you to greatness but it clearly makes you angry and unhappy and not content with you know accomplishments. That are extraordinary. And that's just a really said disconnect it is and it that ultimately is one of the things that undermines the documentary Gotham Chopra director who Did the the Kobe Bryant documentary stuff? There was A. He's quoted in a piece in the Washington Post Ben Strauss about the vanity project. Nature of the last dance and Chopra says about working with Kobe. It turned into a form of therapy creative ownership over something is also agency over his own story and that makes a big difference whether it's Kobe Jordan or anyone else and while that is absolutely true. What's revealed here is that that is creatively powerful. If the subject is thoughtful and introspective if the subject is willing to sort of reconsider his the kiss career arc. Kobe was willing to do that. And Jordan obviously was not or wasn't able to to build off that point in these last two episodes. We get to see Steve Kerr who is like a real delight You know that I could do without some of the self-deprecation okay. Ucla didn't want you. But you still managed to get into Arizona. You're you're pretty good Steve. But at the end he gives up the game all of this when he says about Michael Jordan. We saw him as a bully right and he had said earlier. In the documentary it was very difficult to reach him emotionally. And so I just got the sense that as we come to the end here that it was really unfulfilling for all of these people. Just don't get the sense then. Being a champion was fulfilling or a pursuit that it's worth pursuing because it alienated Michael Jordan from everybody in his life you know it seems like and I think about even Scottie Pippen Scottie. Pippen sacrifices bodies sacrifice money for the greater glory of the Chicago Bulls and Michael Jordan and Michael Jordan never even fucking said like. I never saw him. Come to the to the Defensive Scottie. Pippen and say hey man that guy laid it all on the line for me after that game six in Utah it was all about. Jordan's heroics not about Scotty fighting through a back injury that would upset most other people down and I just think sort of encapsulates everything that we saw coming with Jordan in this documentary that it's all about him in his greater glory and everybody else was there to serve to help him and if they felt the way they felt that's how they felt. But Michael Jordan care all right last dance. Thank you for all the content. We appreciate it. The Bundesliga returned over the weekend and bt sport in the UK was there to cover every touch and by there. I don't mean in the families stadiums in Dortmund and Berlin but rather in the homes of producers directors and commentators scattered across Britain. That's certainly going to be the setup. When live sports return to America play by play and color brought to you not from Wrigley Field or the staple center but from ESPN and NBC studio booths in Connecticut or from their home offices or home offices of their wives? Which is from where our next guest joins us. He is Eagle who calls the NFL for CBS the NBA for TNT and much much more. Welcome back to the show I am great to be with. You guys This is not necessarily the way that I would like to fill airtime with you. But it's still something at least connected to normalcy in some way we can talk about sports as I'm sure you know the very first live sports on the radio on K. D. K. And Pittsburgh in one thousand nine hundred ninety. One was based off of reports. Telephoned into announcers Ronald Reagan. And even more famous play by play guys did it. Converting phone calls and teletype messages into gripping game narratives. I'm guessing you're not quite old enough to have called the game off them but remote broadcasts have been pretty normal before Kovin even for big events like the Olympics World Cops College Football. Give us a little context on how often you've called the game this way. And under what circumstances yeah so for me. Obviously I've been more of the traditional broadcaster from the start of my career but I have received some assignments that were a bit unconventional and was asked ahead of time. Are you comfortable this? Nba Games? Sometimes you're not going to be in the same exact venue as the actual event. I got hired by the NBA to call the NBA finals. The Miami Heat in the San Antonio Spurs two thousand thirteen and I did it from a studio in Beautiful Secaucus New Jersey and did every moment of every game of that series off of the large screen my broadcast was Jim Monarchic. We had a little production meeting before we went ahead and did our games and tried to treat it as normal as usual but not being at the game means that you're doing a more general call a you're not picking up the nuances. You're not feeling the energy from the crowd and often you had to supply your own energy now. The difference there you were getting ambient noise back into your headset. So there was a little bit of the Crescendo. That would build from an audience but your own personal energy you had to generate yourself and the whole goal for an announcer is to convey the emotion and drama of an event. And you can still do that through your voice. But there's no doubt there will be an adjustment period if there are no fans in the stands and then decisions will have to be made in regards to the noise that is going to accompany the event itself. Will they pump in crowd noise? A will they see that as almost like a laugh? Track like you would get on a Sitcom and it's an interesting analogy because seinfeld which was one of the great sitcoms wall time laugh track. It worked it played curb your enthusiasm which I enjoyed equally. If not more at times and Seinfeld no laugh track and it played it worked but a completely different viewing experience. I just real quick for a second. You called the Ray Allen three from a remote studio correct. Oh my gosh what. How did that I mean like you said I mean that must have felt weird? Did you feel the emotion of that moment from a remote studio? I did because everything had been building in that game and given that was not game one. That was game six so I had some experience in how to handle the ups and downs of broadcasting from a remote location. It wasn't the first time that I had done it. In fact I did the world basketball CHAMPIONSHIPS WITH BILL. Raftery in a studio in secaucus. Although the Games were being played in Barcelona I was getting attacked the entire first game throughout your in Barcelona. Now I'm in Secaucus that's when people texted you. They wouldn't say birth alone. They would say to people in particular foot t h in there during Barcelona. Yeah it was a little odd because people just assume you're there I never once said or try to convey the idea that I was at the event but I think there's just a general connection that people make if your covering the event the assumption is. Oh he must be there well. Let's listen to a clip of you calling that rail and Buzzer beater and the two thousand thirteen finals. Rebound Bosh got it clears Alan fire drills ninety seconds to go so it's a great call in the question that I had for you. I N as one the you kind of got to in your first answer. Which is how much of this is real. And how much of it as performance you know we know you know you're dripping with sincerity and everything that you do but how much of that irregular game and in a remote game are you kind of acting. Are you trying to convey emotion? And just that. Maybe isn't isn't there but you want the viewer at home said feel excited. It's a fantastic question and probably does not get talked about nearly enough when we discuss sports casting. In general I think as you evolve in your career you begin to figure out what energy level is required for the event that you're calling and to say that I'm exactly the same for every event that I do. There's a consistency in my approach. There certainly a consistency in my preparation but the job requires the marriage preparation and performance so my preparation which I take a lot of pride in in getting ready for any event. Sometimes I'm calling five to six games in a week and it varies from a television football game to a football game on the radio to NBA Games local to NBA Games. National to a college basketball. It could be in one week so to say that I'm going to be exactly the same for every. Single event is not a fair statement of course There's going to be a variance and in how I approach it. How I cover it and how I use my voice if you're doing a game where the home team is on a flurry. Football basketball doesn't matter. The crowd is going to play a much larger role. And you're going to have to push your voice in order to break through with the crowd and create this blend where your voice is connecting with the crowd if the same exact thing is happening with the visiting team and the crowd is playing no role. And you're now going at a nine or a ten with your vocals. It's not gonNA come across the same way because you don't have the backup there so there is performance involved in this job and of course when you've got a great highlight in the NBA. When Moore of Albert said Hey spectacular move by Michael Jordan? Of course? He happened to pick the right word in the right moment and he punched it in the exact perfect way and he also recognized that in that moment it was probably GonNa live on for a long time. If you have the right call and the right words in the right moment it can elevate that moment the issue here with remote games there. There are multiple ones. I mean one is something you mentioned a few seconds ago which preparation you're not in the arena. You know you might not be doing the same kinds of interviews before a game with athletes with with coaches your NFL game where you get to sit down with a members of the staff and talk to players the days before. So you're you might be losing something of the human connection in terms of what you're able to relate and that's just one thing right oh no doubt about it now. A whiz Zun becoming such a big part of our lives. I could easily see that transitioning to our new normal in covering sports where you will get the players that you asked for on an NFL Sunday but the interview will now take place via laptops and your hope is. You can still cultivate some information that can be used over the course of your broadcast but the human connection certainly is going to be affected. There's going to be an adjustment period. Here there's no doubt about it. The next part of the equation will be the sterile nature in the conditions. That you're working whether you are on site let's say the NFL makes the decision. They deem the announcers essential but no fans in the stands. You're in your broadcast booth. You're in your typical setup yet. The game does not have the feel that had during normal conditions. And now it's up to you to generate the energy or to gauge. What's required you? The one thing that I would say in regards to the performance aspect that we were discussing it still has to be authentic. If it's not coming from a real place listeners viewers. They sniff it up. They know something doesn't fit which doesn't belong in. Why that highlight didn't deserve that. Bega call or that highlight was actually better than the call that you provided that in the moment split-second when you have to make those decisions as a broadcaster you've got to determine whether or not your voice is matching the action or are you underplaying overselling. All of those things are done in a millisecond. And now when you don't have a crowd to help you figure all of that out That that's going to be based more on your Gut Instincts Bryan Curtis story for the Ringer about. This was great and he did a really good job of kind of demystifying. How guys like you call games in an arena stadium versus at home and I was wondering if you could walk us through that like an NFL game. You might actually be watching a lot of the game on the Monitor from You know the six level or whatever. So can you just kind of walk through football and basketball and What some of the kind of advantages and disadvantages are calling it and the stadium versus remote away. My play by play career started. I began in radio so when I started with the nets. Nineteen Ninety four ninety five. That was all. I knew I had no television experience whatsoever at a blank canvas and I was told by anyone that was an expert in the field. You are the conductor. You're in charge. What you see is now the picture that you're going to paint for the listener. That's driving in their car. That's doing some gardening in the backyard. That string of beer on the deck. Whatever it might be so when it's put in those terms it's fairly easy to understand. Okay I'm going to paint the picture. I transitioned to television the very next year and it was a whole new world it was more of an analyst medium so that was the first thing that struck me. I was working with Bill. Raftery who is a brilliant guy and what you see is what you get and a lot of times. I was getting out of his way but I also realized that the producer the director. They were steering the ship more than I was as the play by play announcer football. I got the jets. Radio job in nineteen ninety-seven same situation as three years earlier. Paint the picture. The next year I get the CBS job covering the NFL. And I'm doing TV now with some experience behind me at the local level so the transition wasn't as big elite and to be honest with you. The transition wasn't that big league for me from ninety four to ninety five because I hadn't really developed any habits. It was still very new so in a way it probably benefited me. That I hadn't done radio for fifteen years in a sudden now. I had to change what I was looking for. And where my focus was concentrated on basically when I got to the television side of things. I realized that I needed to talk to pictures. This is the essence of what we're doing if fans can't see what. I'm talking about Ben. There's a disconnect and you have to get on the same page as you're producer and director and you have to use that talk back button that goes directly into the truck if you see something. They're not seeing alert them so they can find it and now you're in concert with one another and you're working together as opposed to me doing a separate broadcast from the truck so for NBA game for an NFL game. There is such a collaborative process in covering the event and that hard is going to be a little different. I can no longer be the eyes and ears if I'm seems develop because I'm just getting what they're getting. I'm getting one screen. Maybe there could be some advanced setups where we have multiple looks where you can see. Eyeso- monitors which we might have on a normal television broadcast. The analyst is peaking at a different monitor. That's not on television. Not Our program on her but an eyesore monitor and noticed something and tells the producer director. Hey get a shot this for keep an eye on that for this play because they see it developed we might be a bit more limited because we just don't have the same kinds of options that we would normally have under our usual show the reason that there's been more remote coverage as that covering live sports on location is really expensive. And there's a shit ton of live sports available to be broadcast and you practically networks and other producers can't send crews to cover every game. The goal of the announcer of course is to make us not realize that we're missing anything and my question. Is I guess the two questions here one is. Are we missing something by not having your is your physical is in your physical emotion in the stadium or arena or on the field? And do you worry where we are now that this will be a convenient way for networks and other sports producers to say? Hey we can really cut costs by remote broadcasting more than we have in the past. Yeah I four yes You are missing something. If the announcers and the producers and director are not onsite. You're missing part of the feel that comes with covering an event and not just doing the nuts and bolts. And telling you exactly what you're seeing. There is still something to being there in person and experiencing it and being able to convey it with the last dance up. Costas stepped in for that final run for Michael Jordan as the play by play announcer and really did an excellent job is a tremendous journalist and understands the medium but the interesting part for me is looking back on that final edition. He was there and had the right words and the right tone and it lives all these years later. He chose the exact narratives that we needed. That helped tell that story. There will be a disconnect. If you're not there you're not going to have the same vibe. There's just no way. There's no way to recreate that. There is no way to simulate that. Will it be passable? Yes it will be passable and for most people right now given the circumstances they would take it in a heartbeat and I get it a hundred percent get it. We just want something right now but big picture. Long-term no the product would suffer and look some companies have already done it. They've done it without telling anyone that they have a remote production. They may have the announcers on site but the producer and director are back in a studio somewhere. They're not on site. And there are some cases. Where the announcers are not on site and they don't necessarily tell you that when the broadcast starts soccer as we know very common a that's probably to me the most common sport of all of them that there are matches happening all over the world and there are two guys in Studio in Fort Lauderdale Florida calling them lots of them but I think people will accept what the new normal is shorter long term. I think there would be an issue if we don't get back to the standard in which we've grown accustomed to. I think I've got one question for you. Since you brought it up about the last dance. I know that you did a show with Phil Jackson and Radio. Weekly radio show with Phil Jackson. So can you just real briefly? Tell us about I. Were you in the same room with Phil Jackson when you were doing these enter. How appropriate is this question at this moment? No I was not really. I was with him. One time when the Lakers came into play the knicks that was the only time he was available to come into the studios at serious and that was the only time we did the show looking at one another and every other show that we did for that season he was somewhere else. Sometimes in a hotel room sometimes at the practice facility Sometimes in a remote location that he did not devote yes Phil Jackson. I did a show for an entire NBA season and we were together once. Why did you feel like you've ever gotten to a rapport with Phil? Then on not the way that I normally would like to to think of chemistry no I I would look back on that and say there was definitely a disconnect because he was doing the show during a very brief time that he had actual time to commit to it in between other things so it was never a focus for him. Phil was very easy to deal with. He could not have been more of a gentlemen's very interesting guy. His view of what the show should be compared to what my you was and management were two very different a he at one point on a show wall. There were definitely some things happening with the Lakers. You wanted to do twenty minutes on canned goods one. That's real and I I remember after the show meeting would somebody from serious and and he asked me how. How did you get on that time? I think that was filling as I tempted to. Get off that topic. He went back to that topic. So yeah it. It's something that I always looked at as as a real strength of mine connecting with my partners finding that that dynamic that works that was digestible for the audience. I would say that was one of the few instances where I just couldn't quite get over the Hump on that particular setup Stephan. We should wrap this up. I think before we got. We should all just grade how he did not in the same location. I can give us a solid C. Four but we faked it. Well Yeah that's a Great Eagle calls the NFL the NBA. Pretty much. Everything else. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Angry to see you guys all right. We'll let you know that in this week's bonus segment for slate plus members. We'll be talking to our slave colleague. Heather sh widow not a sports fan about her interpretations of the last dance. What was it like for a sports? Newbie please stick around for that and join slate. Plus SLATE DOT com slash hangup plus the. Nfl came up with the Rooney rule in two thousand three under threat of litigation from a pair of civil rights attorneys one of them. Johnny Cochran the rule which requires teams to interview minority candidates for head. Coaching and front office positions was meant to boost minority hiring. It hasn't really worked today. Seventeen years later the. Nfl has three black head coaches the same number. As when the Rooney rule was adopted. The League gets seems wants that to change the. Nfl will reportedly consider a pair of resolutions during the owners. Virtual meeting on Tuesday the I would do away with the rule that permits teams to block assistant coaches from interviewing for coordinator positions with other teams. This second would reward teams with improved drafts. Lots if they hire minority head coaches a football executives. So Josh you think. Nfl teams are now going to fall over themselves to hire Marvin Lewis any probably not poor. poor Marvan but Anthony Lynn. One of the three black head coaches I think had it exactly right when he said in an interview. I think sometimes you can do the wrong thing while trying to do the right thing. I don't think that it's a bad idea for the NFL. To look at the Rooney rule and say how can we improve this? How can we get more opportunities for minority coaches and executives? That's a good impulse the way that they're going about it here or that they're proposing to go about it. Here seems wrong in that people that support minority hiring and people who oppose it are going to be united and thinking that this is a bad idea if you are upset or outraged bird or think that there should be more opportunities here. You'RE GONNA look at this and be like all right. You're saying that you're now qualifying like a minority head. Coach is worth six spots in the third round. I mean we can go through the specifics of the proposal. But it's basically like putting a value on a coach that's associated with like moving up a couple of spots and the draft and it just feels wrong and it also sends the message. That teams won't do this unless they're giving a cookie for you know. Oh well you don't want black coach there. We'll give you a third round pick. I'm like Oh okay now I really do want black. I mean it just sends the wrong message and on the other side. You're GONNA have the usual suspects people being like. This is unfair. It's discrimination it's the same conversations that you hear about affirmative action and that's going to be unfair to the coaches that do get these opportunities. They're going to be seen as Being less deserving Because these inducements are now attached to it. So you know Steph and it just seems like good idea in theory and just really really bad in practice. Let's start with the NFL's history. It's not just. How many black coaches there are. It's their overall hiring policies. And they've been uniformly terrible over the years the institute for Diversity and Ethics in sport that group that's run by Richard Lap Chick most recently gave the NFL a d. plus in hiring for coaches and an F. for hiring diversity for general managers this all reflects the horrific insularity of NFL ownership. I mean you said. Give them a cookie. I mean it's exactly like that the NFL has the treat. It's owners like toddlers. These are the same people who think Colin Kaepernick is a social menace. It's astounding how little what little awareness the thirty two owners in the NFL. Have of what constitutes collective fairness what constitutes equity what constitutes progress and they demonstrate their failings over and over and over. It really shows to me how insulated NFL ownership is from the reality on their own workplaces ingestion. You mentioned something about how you know. Those coaches that might get hired under. These circumstances might be seen as less deserving which that's true but I have and I think that if you got hired under those circumstances you might might not have as much of a problem as you think because that's never stop the NFL. Coaching carousel from hiring people. That are seen as less deserving all the time I mean nobody look at Mike Shula. Brian Schottenheimer Wade Phillips. Jim Moore Junior call. Shanahan Jay Gruden the Ryan brothers. Mike Nolan Lane Kiffin. You know even Tom Dmitrov. All these guys are nepotism. Hires in nobody ever says. Hey those guys unless deserving. It's just assumed that when you get in there you get in there and you have to do your job and so I think even if you got hired under these circumstances you gotta take it and do the job that you can with it because those opportunities just come around and it's never stopped. Anybody knows middling son from accepting a job but more broadly like you said. I don't think this is going to change anything. I don't think teams care that much about a third round pick rhino or positioning in a third round. Pick to do something like this. I mean it just doesn't it doesn't seem like enough of an inducement to do the right thing. Should there being inducement? Joel I mean. Is there a better approach here? I mean look as Bomani. Jones wrote on twitter having to bribe ownership to seriously consider hiring minority coaches as a staggering indictment of the. Nfl is what Bomani wrote. Should you have to do this or is this a is there a way to improve minority hiring in a league like the NFL? I don't know because I mean it's so dependent as you mentioned on these owners and these people that really don't necessarily believe in diversity or fairness and hiring as a concept in the first place right like I mean there are people that skirt these sort of rules. All the times and other industry is so. I don't know that there's anything that could necessarily be done. But they should do something right but I always think about it. This way that the problem with the pipeline is not it head. Coaching in the head coaching. Position or general managers you've got to build a pipeline way before you ever get to that point A lot of coaches get stuck and positions that you know position coaching roles that never get that sort of responsibility in it is not really an advancement and I'll use this example so I played at. Tcu Nine thousand nine hundred ninety eight and ninety six we had three black assistant coaches at TCU. This is nineteen ninety-six. All three of them today. A running backs coaches still you know and and only one of them has had an opportunity to be coordinator at some point net careers and it wasn't like one of those coordinator positions where you call plays. It was being a coordinator in name only. So you think about it. So like that guy's never even gonNA get a chance to be to get the sort of advancement that somebody else gets a coordinator position when the thirty one years old guy like Lincoln Riley or whoever else so yeah I just I get what they're trying to do but the problem is pipeline and I don't know how you deal with that so a couple of things The thing that the real indictment of the NFL as compared to other industries and of in leadership positions and journalism. In which. We're familiar with and and you know many other industries that were less personally familiar with as a scandal in itself but the NFL the vast majority of players are black and so when the coaches and know ownership and management arm black than that is an indictment of the whole industry. I mean it's an obvious point where it's saying like they're obviously people that can do these jobs and should be given an opportunity to do these jobs. So that's point number one The second point is I think this is a really really important lesson in the difference between You know how things are in Noun on paper and then how. Things are executed in practice. The Rooney rule is progressive and the NFL was progressive. Instituting and in two thousand and three and the numbers that you mentioned Jal It's certainly true. That the number of coaches the same now. Seventeen years ago but that does It's a little bit more of a topsy turvy story than that. It did. Initially I think work and there were more coaches and then just like And again this happens across other industries. These coaches get an opportunity and then maybe they don't you know some of them succeed in down and then like Marvin Lewis. They don't ever get an opportunity again so it's like okay. We hired by coach. That didn't work. We're not going to do that again. And so I think the NFL is right and saying we need to do something different. We need to change something here. But I thought Mike Florio profootballtalk had a really good point. The problem here is moving from the Paradigm of Punishments to the Paradigm of reward. There's only been one fine. Ever issued for Rooney rule violation to Matt Mellon when he was with the Lions. Congratulations mad melon. And being the only person to ever get fined for this the NFL has been unwilling to punish teams for making a sham of the Rooney rule process for going through with interviews with coaches. They don't intend to hire with not taking it seriously. That is where the NFL should put. Its Energy and attention is making sure that these interviews are real. That more coaches are getting the opportunity to interview the part about In the first part you mentioned y'all of getting more minorities opportunities to be coordinators. That is the part here that will get the least attention but as the most important and just bringing the whole concept of reward and giving team something for you know a practice that they should be doing anyway. It sends the wrong message. Punish punish right. The word and I'm glad you mentioned the bit about allowing assistant coaches to be interviewed for coordinator positions because that is far more important. There are a lot of African American and other minority coaches in the NFL. Position Coach's position assistance. Who Don't get to move up and running coaches flat running back. Coach is a lot of defensive coaches who who don't get to move up particularly because they don't get the opportunity to run the offense which is the most likely path to becoming a head coach so allowing coaches assistant coach to be interviewed for these jobs and getting rid of some of these bogus deadlines and sort of periods when they're not allowed to talk to other teams is a real step forward. The insane part about this is that the NFL also is having to write into this rule that every team will have to notify the league. About what an assistant coaches responsibility actually is to prevent teams from giving them titles that would prohibit them from being interviewed for these positions so the League is going to have to build in rules to keep teams from changing the titles of assistant coaches to prevent them from qualifying to be interviewed for coordinator jobs. That is just another tremendous indictment about what this league has to do to prevent owners from doing the wrong thing in a question. I have is who wanted this. Who proposed this and who wanted this does the NFL. Actually this is some sort of you know potential lawsuit in the works that we don't know about have they been contacted by somebody that makes them want to address this now because I guess I'm just curious about what what's pushing this like? This past off season Joe. Judge gets the giants head coaching job and he was a special teams coach. Rate and the guy that got hired in Cleveland Kevin's defence key. These are guys that don't have as much experience and as many accolades as Eric. Bana made a no black offensive coordinator for the chief so the NFL is responding to events. That happened in twenty twenty. And I bet they thought that they were GonNa get praised for it right bright. Well also look this public relations a does affect the NFL. They are not immune to bad. Pr Jim Trotter. Who's African American who covers the NFL for the NFL? Network said the end of last year. That Clemson offensive coordinator named Tony Elliott rejected being interviewed by the panthers. Thought it was going to be a bogus interview. And then a a week or so later. He quoted an unnamed black. Nfl assistant coach. Nfl is finally shown. It's not the place for black men to advance. It's ridiculous it's disgusting. We can sell tickets and make plays but we can't lead. Maybe there was pressure and is pressure and there should be pressure is coming from the. Nfl PA is coming from an outsider. Like Cyrus Mary or lawyers. That are once again going to have to threaten the NFL or have we don't know right now but that wouldn't be out of the question is not for me to tell. Tony Elliott whether or not to take interviews that he knows maybe a sham or not because at least for the panthers the it had been telegraph. That Matt Rule. The head coach. Baylor was always going to be the guy in that role right but I do think it's important to take those interviews because you just never know by getting in the room and that's why like the idea that people might be diminished by getting installed. You know through these means might make them seem less deserving kind of falls apart because the thing is that often guys just need to get in the room. And that's the biggest problem in a lot of in these instances just not even getting the opportunity to make your case to the decision makers and like. That's the piece that needs to be solved here and yes. This proposal does kind of get at that but I just I guess I'm just really cynical about the idea that the NFL and the people that are in charge of these franchises are really going to do anything unless you punish them but even then you're punishing them not for not hiring but for not taking the the rule seriously because that's another step right taking the rule seriously and then going through it making a higher and I just you know we've been talking about this. Entire life is a football fan and there hasn't been much movement on it and you know I I doubt they will see much movement on it. The rest of my life well. I think you're right that if these rules went into place and it's unclear it seems extremely unlikely to me that this will be approved given of the criticism that received instantly in a world in which this did happened. I thank you know coaches who got these opportunities. Shouldn't turn them down. At the point I was trying to make is just that you know you would be associated with a team jumping six spots from where it is slotted to pick in the third round like that that's a part of a transaction on the wire you know ex coach hired Ex team moves up six slots in the third round. And if you look at like I mean it's a long list of bullet points if a minority assistant left to become a coordinator elsewhere. His former club would receive a fifth round compensatory pack and it kind of goes on and on and the thing that made me think of was Tampa Bay sending two first round picks and two second round. Picks to the raiders for Jon Gruden. I think that they weren't disappointed with that. Trade because they they want a super bowl but like that's the that's the value that's connected to Jon Gruden right and then you know minority coach. Td is worth six slots in the third round. It's just makes it. It makes the whole thing look Chintzy and ridiculous and unfair from whatever perspective. You want to look at it. It's just the whole thing. Looks look like the result of a round of negotiations where someone in the NFL headquarters said well. Maybe it's worth the first round pick and someone else said no way. What are you kidding me? A black coach that's sixth round. Pick and then. They settled on six slots in the third round. It looks cheap. I think we can put a pin there. Clearly we'll be hearing more about this the NFL owners will meet on this on Tuesday. Which will be the day. Some of you all listen to this podcast so Maybe we'll circle back on this now. It's time for after balls and there's a really sad part of Brian Russell's wikipedia page. I just wanted to let you guys. Now it's not enough. I wanted to prepare you because this has added as it reads as follows in two thousand nine Jordan mentioned Russell and his hall of fame induction speech who calling an interaction they had during Jordan's first retirement in eighteen ninety four lobby blabbity Blah Russell says why did you quit? I could guard you. Jordan says from this day forward favor see Russell and shorts. I'm coming at him in response. Russell challenged Jordan to a game of one on one for charity. Such a matchup has not yet taken place though the Utah Flash of the N. Bdo did stage a halftime game between Russell and a Jordan look alike. Oh God. That's like racing a horse for Brian. Russell Utah Flash of the D. League the G. League. I guess it is now staged this. I guess congratulations to them. Coming up the that promotion Stephan. What is your Utah Flash? Well this past week Major League baseball prepared sixty seven pages of medical and safety protocols. Should the sport return for a partial season on proposals? Include social distancing during the national anthem and when men are on base no managerial lineup card. Swapping no throwing the ball around Macquarie. No high fiving no fist bumping no spitting tobacco chewing or sunflower seed expect rating the most spitting edict is getting a lot of attention because no spitting baseball next crotch-grabbing. They're killing baseball. Anyway you'll recall a few weeks ago. I reported that the last huge US pandemic in one thousand nine hundred eighteen and nineteen was not responsible for outlying the spitball. I also didn't turn up any evidence that the pandemic hastened the demise of plain old spitting in baseball players began spitting during baseball's earliest years. In the mid nineteenth century when chewing tobacco was very popular tobacco produced saliva which was good for lubricating the mouth on dry dusty ballfields and also for lubricating newfangled leather gloves. I couldn't find any stories about the contemporaneous spitting habits of the nineteenth century baseball players. But I did stumble across an interesting item in the February one. 1896 edition of the Pittsburgh press quote Van Hall trend will be asked to sign an agreement curtailing his tobacco. Smoking during the playing season Van. Halton was George van Halter and he played seventeen seasons mostly for the New York. Giants still tons of bases batted over three hundred a dozen times and he also had an awesome handlebar moustache a few days after the Pittsburgh report story only Buffalo Morning News reported that the giants club people had sent word to Van Hall trend in San Francisco. That unless he quit smoking or at least limit himself he could not play on the New York team next year giants owner Andrew Freedman. The paper said is convinced vans excessive. Smoking interfered with his good work last year and insists on limiting the abuse. It's interesting that people in eighteen ninety six thought that smoking might be bad for athletes. Two thousand nine slate explainer about baseball chewing tobacco by Brian Palmer noted that the sudden decline of former batting champion King Kelly 1892 was attributed to his longtime habit of smoking while patrolling the outfield but Van. Halter was no Kelly. He didn't do good work in eighteen. Ninety six he did great work. He hit three forty stole thirty. Two bags drove in one hundred three runs and had a career. I P of nine eleven. Not that he would have known that because Oprah's didn't exist in eighteen ninety six. So why would the giants leaker story about Van Hall and Smoking Problem? Probably because Friedman the owner was a notorious asshole whom bill. Jane's called George Steinbrenner on Quail Woods with a touch of Al Capone. Friedman was a real estate millionaire. Tammany Hall insider who routinely alienated his players and managers star Pitcher Amos. Roussy would sit out that eighteen ninety six season because of disputes with the owner the smoking threat against Van Hall trend was probably a contractual ploy by Friedman against a star player according to an incredible sabre bio written by Bill Lamb. Friedman fought with fellow national league owners and literally fought with reporters covering the giants to punish the League for not taking his side. After a player used an anti Semitic slur against him on the field. He tanked the giants saying I would not give five cents for the best baseball player in the world to strengthen it that nearly crippled the league because other teams relied on big gates from giants Games. His fellow owners wound up caving. Friedman finagled his way back into power until he left the sport to run the construction. Of New York's first subway line the Iot from which he got even richer and for which he was widely praised Friedman later was a director of the company the back the Wright brothers he had a nervous breakdown and died in one thousand nine fifteen at age fifty five as for Van Hall. Trinh baseball associates defended him against smoking. Charge Connie Mack said that I am confident. He never carried it to that extreme where his health was injured. The big outfielder was always very careful of his health. The trainer for the Pittsburgh Pirates van halting play before joining the giants said the smoking report was absurd and the van. Hulten was a crank on his health when he was in Pittsburgh. He backed up that claim with details than hall. Trend was usually the first man in the room after the game and was the last one out he would not go out in the air sweat. He was careful about eating and finally we and obviously most important to maintaining one's health after taking his bath and being rubbed down he would always stand around fanning himself with a towel for five minutes before dressing. I couldn't determine whether van Halter and smoke less or more during the eighteen ninety six season but he had a career best three fifty one average with thirty nine steals and a league. Twenty one triples. Nice Josh what's your Utah Flash before I get to my actual Utah Flash. I have to say that I have an update on the Michael Jordan. Brian Ross all look alike one game from two thousand nine. Is the price of looking up after Bonham too quickly so it turns out that the owner of the Utah Team Brandt Anderson tried to convince people that are actually a real game and sent the look alike all over town to try to drum up interest in this and ended up having that offer refunds to seventy five hundred people that buy tickets to this game to thinking. They're going to see a Brian Russell Michael Jordan one on one game. Oh man offered one hundred thousand dollars to the charity of the Winter Choice Jordan somehow declined shockingly to play Brian Russell at a D. League game in two thousand nine so just a little bit more information now onto my actual Utah Flash. A couple of weeks ago. My friend ten mcclelland asked an important question on twitter. Is the last dance going to ask Michael Jordan why he wouldn't license his image to NBA Jam? The answer tad is now. The last dance did not address that like it didn't address so many other things so I will address it now. Jordan was not in the arcade and home console smash hit. Nba Am because he opted out of regular NBA licensing and made his own arrangements presuming correctly that he could cut better deals for himself than the League could make on his behalf but by opting out of NBA Jam. He missed out on the Europe label. Opportunity to be part of the amusement and music operators associations most played video game for nineteen ninety-three. Actually it's not true. I mean the part about it being most played games trail. But because Michael Jordan is Michael Jordan did get his boom shock cake and eat it to an oral history published in sports illustrated video game developer mark. Turmoil says the following. And I quote Gary. Payton got a hold of me and wanted to be in the game. I told him what we would need. Not Thinking anything would come of it. I should say that Gary Payton is not in the game and that if you plan a jam it's Shawn Kemp and been wait. Benjamin Gary Payton feeling well but left out so he calls. The developer of the game. the developer says. I told him what we would need. Not Thinking anything would come of it. A lot of effort like nine images for the head then. I received photographs in the mail. Payton standing in front of a wall and all these angles then he said Oh. I'M BUDDIES WITH KEN. Griffey junior and he wants to be in the game and Michael Jordan wants to be on the game. I did a special version of the game with three of them in it. I sent that to Peyton. I was happy to do. It was pretty early in his career. It wasn't even clear it was the right move. Okay Gary Payton Gone Michael Jordan. Nba Jam and Michael Jordan was still an asshole to him and last answer. Shake him my damn head This MJ version of NBA. Jam has never been released. Gary Payden apparently has it in his garage. If you want to play this just ask Gary Payden. It's not it's not on me according to the NBA Jammed Super Nintendo Faq on the website game tax published on April seven. Thousand nine hundred four any codes that you might receive to quote unlocked Jordan and the Console version of the game are quote bogus and are merely an attempt by one person to make themselves look cool. Don't fall for it. Game fact says in Nature Ninety four DAFFYD Q. Continues other rumored secret characters that can be confirmed as false are as follows? I'm not making this up. These are all all false false rumored secret characters the list as Barney the dinosaur beavis and butthead Charles Manson Jeffrey Dahmer Randall. Cunningham Jim Harbaugh Magic Johnson Larry Bird it. Dr J. The Red Ninja Donahue. That is rush. Limbaugh Darth Vader Superman Al Pacino. Santa Claus the state marshmallow cool spot. Sinbad Humpty Hump Oprah Alien Predator dray Snoop and Michael Jackson. No mention of Big Into Pack Humpty Humpty Hump of digital underground yes so if you wanted to play Humpty Hump in a video game you might be out of luck. Unless they're games out there that I don't know about but there have been various Jordan titles released over the years one of them Michael Jordan Chaos. In the windy city is a side scrolling platformer released in one thousand nine hundred four in which Jordan throws basketball's to incapacitate has enemies. You can watch a play through of the entire game on Youtube because of course you can but everything you need to know really is in the like cut scenes in the beginning that explain the premise of the game. So I'm just GonNa read that part and then we'll be done. It begins with the following tidal. It's a windy day in Chicago. I practice for an all star Charity Game. So you know this is funny. Michael Jordan would never play a charity. Michael shows up and finds his team has disappeared. Their stuff is here. But they're not he says this is weird suddenly through a skylight crash a ball with a note scrawled on it. Note Mr Jordan if you want to save your pals come to the Egyptian Room in the field museum at midnight come alone signed. Dr Max cranium. Michael says man. This is serious. I'd better check out the panel. Then reads that night a guard. Lets Michael into the closed museum in the Egyptian Room Michael? Well I'm here now. What hey a door in the wall? He enters warily. Michael What the the panel finding himself at the entrance to an underground prison Michael sets out to find his friends and then we again not anywhere in space jam. I guess sounds better the spice town. Although you know just the notion that Michael has friends that if the friends appeared that you would want to find them. That seems a little bit less believable than the fact that you can throw basketballs at your enemies to incapacitate them Michael Jordan in the windy city by today. That is our show our producer. Melissa Kaplan wasn't a Pashas and subscribe or just which out dot com slash hangup. Email us at hangup sleep dot com. You are still here. You might want even more hang up and listen in our bonus segment this week. We're joined by our colleague. Heather twiddle sports newbie talked about her experience watching plus dance with the bullying and trash talk in general I mean. I realized that he was painting. A Rosier picture of it then was probably really true. Because yeah if I were a rookie and had Michael Jordan Lake terrifying me all the time. I would hate that. I wouldn't think the payments in the same way as at all conversation. Join slate plus. It's just thirty five dollars for the first year you can sign up at slate. Dot Com slash. Hang up plus for Joel Anderson and Stephan Pat says. I'm Josh Levin Remembers almost movie and thanks for listening.

Michael Jordan NFL NBA director Michael Jordan Joel Utah basketball Phil Jackson Pippen Steve Kerr Scotty Scottie Pippen Scottie Denis Rodman Ron Harper Steve Scottie Pippen Chicago Bulls Brian Russell Bulls football Washington Dennis Rodman
The Golden State Calf Edition

Slate's Hang Up and Listen

1:06:06 hr | 1 year ago

The Golden State Calf Edition

"The following podcast contains explicit language. Stephon fats this, and this is slates sports podcast hang up. And listen for the week of June tenth two thousand nineteen Marcus Thompson of the athletic will be here to break down the breakdown of the Golden State Warriors, as they face elimination in the NBA finals, the large hands of Leonard, and some other dudes from Canada, Louisa Thomas of the New Yorker will join us to discuss Rafael on the dolls twelfth French Open title, and Ashley Bharti's, first and finally will rejoin Marcus to have a conversation about race. Analytics and hiring in the NBA. Josh Levin is the national editor of slate magazine and the author of the Queen the forgotten life behind an American myth. Josh is in Chicago, where he had a book filled weekend. Hey, josh. Sure, I'll have you guys saw me on C span to try not to let it go away fan, too. I was watching C span of one. Yeah. So we got moved to C span too, because, you know what, whatever it was on C span, one ran over probably like a really hot legislative debate, just couldn't move it. That's understandable. I hope it didn't affect the rave TV on Monday. How long feature about the book and you on the front page of the arts section of the Chicago Tribune. Let me quote Levin is long, and thin Christopher Borelli rights with an oval face and a pensive manner, with his sky blue button-down shirt and black framed eyeglasses. He gives off an aura of NASA, mission control. Wonky nece circa, nineteen sixty seven Josh, I gotta say, I'm a little worried that Christopher Borelli was sub tweeting you because for the record nineteen sixty seven was a terrible year for NASA. That was that was the Apollo one caught fire during a launch rehearsal killing all. All three astronauts aboard Gus Grissom, Ed white, and Roger Chaffee. So I hope you weren't in NASA mission control in nineteen sixty seven. I thought that when he started off that paragraph he was going to get to my wingspan that seemed like where, where it was going. Reach it felt it felt like I was the NBA combine so that was exciting. Story. Can't complain about a good story about your book. No, you can't. No. You can't. This message is brought to you by hotels dot com. You know, when you're endlessly, scrolling, social media, and suddenly, you see it. It's your friend. Dylan in Hawaii on another vacation. What do you do? You hate like his photo and immediately. Go to hotels dot com to book vacation so epic. So awesome. So sweet that your friends will hate like your trip hotels dot com, be there do that get rewarded. We are taping the show on Monday morning, which is before game five of the NBA finals on Monday night in Toronto as I speak. Kevin Durant, and his injured. Right. Calf are listed as questionable for the game Durant did practice on Sunday and the will he or won't he play narrative has hijacked the possibly more relevant narratives Leonard has gotten. His teammates have been God's wingman and the warriors beyond Durant are really banged up Marcus Thompson of the athletic joins us from Toronto. What's up Marcus? What's up? What's up? I didn't mention for having me back, by the way, love having you on. But I did not mention your new book in that part of the intro because I want to mention it now, it is titled K D. Kevin Durant relentless pursuit to be the greatest nature. Hates vacuum Marcus. And in the absence of actual information, there's been an awful lot of speculation about whether Durant is relentlessly pursuing returning to this series after Toronto Blue out Golden State in game four. You tweeted, the whispers and questions and moods behind the scenes, man. What's going on Marcus? I mean, there's just a lot of people just dealt know what's happening. Like that's what it boils down to. And can't you know, some of it is media kinda, you know, during stuff out there. Some of it is the team is not communicating well enough. And obviously Durant has not talked. You know he has not leaked anything to the media. So no, no one knows what's going on. And then like after that game with, you know, this idea like they might the season might be over to down to their last shot. There was just like there are people who are like, we don't even know what's happening with Kevin Durant. So, you know, I just a lot of like the first off, this is how that is. He's in right? They end a little bit messy. There's some drama involved by being the workout is playing like that's how it goes just the realization I think hit them after that game. Is it the case that there folks either players or, or you know anybody associated? With the team that pissed at K D about all this or people just more upset by the uncertainty. And don't blame him for because that does the subtext here, you know, Klay Thompson is playing heard kevon looney boogie cousins even Steph curry there all playing hurt. Wising K D plan hurt. Well at as one who is tries to get confirmation on stuff. I haven't been able to get comfortable to the point rocker right anyway. So I'm not gonna make that Greg collusion saying it, but I think the bigger thing is people just don't know that it's not like a clear cut. It hasn't been clear cut to people in the organization like what, what is actually happening? And I think that's a, that's a part on all sides like maybe maybe Katie should have been talking a little bit more. Maybe his team should have been leaking stuff. Maybe maybe the water should have been telling the players like what's happened in status the way or maybe everybody should just give. Benefited out understanding who he is, like, who knows. But there's just a lot of it went from. We're playing in Houston when we bought the win this series. We get our guy back, right? We'll win the series. We gotta keep winning. So we get Katy back to. I don't even know. And that was the kind of general the general mood. So the last two days have been like, you know, trying to reshape the narrative reset the narrative, and the, the real truth is this is probably what it was going to be. All right. It was it was always a long shot. It was always like maybe gang five game six and I, I just don't think that was stated clearly enough from the outset. I think it's also partly that we've become so conditioned to the warriors being pretty much indomitable that now that they're being dominated. We don't quite now how to process it, whether it's just this confluence of injury. Or whether it really is that. Leonard is playing no not out of his mind. But in his mind and the rest of his team is supporting him. I mean they clearly have a better team right? Like what you take away Kevin Durant from this team. You, you put, you know Kvant looney in Klay Thompson like on the injured list. I mean that that's just too much this team has good man. And I'm saying team not just like generically like they are a will put together t- you know, who've been through some fires together. They've got a lot of experience even though this is their first time in the finals, they'd have like pieces that fit together, you know, backups and big man and options, they can play multiple ways like the warriors just don't have that anymore. They don't. I mean, after the top five players, you just don't know what you're getting and you take away one of those guys two of those guys. I mean they literally just gave what they had to give away game three you know, because it just Steph in the pips out there, so is that Toronto team you've got to be fully stacked against them. You're not beating them with a partial. Team. They're that good. And not only are they that good. They're just that like complete as a team. So I think that's the thing is like man there's looking around, like, okay, maybe maybe who in cooking, Affonso McKinney aren't going to be the ones to get this done. Kinda neat kinda of Kevin Durant out here. What, what's the latest on that front? Kyle Lowry and Marcus collar, so crafty, man like that, that I think is been really fun to watch because not only do you have, you know, Leonard and and Siaka 'em who are just so so good on both offense and defense. But you get the sense watching the raptors these are a bunch of guys who absolutely know who they are and know what they're doing, and they've been playing together. You know, even though you know, Gosol midseason acquisition like they know how to play together, and they know how to pick apart the teams that especially in game four like the warriors defense is just like totally perplexed the team. But I just like the pick and roll like, have you not seen that before? And the raptors are just taking taking advantage. Yeah, that it was weird. I mean Steve Kerr is having a hard time with Nick nurse to like that. That's got to be on the table. Yes. Not figuring out what to do with coli like I've become is a doozy. You just can't trap the raptors they pass to. Well, it's not like Houston where if you take the ball out of James harden hands. It's a bunch of dudes can't do anything with it. But shoot like this team. You, you, you take the ball article is hands and you put it in the hands of the dude who can make a play and pro they have great success when they switch. It gets go. Just switch right. I mean he's taken jumpers you get into all drawn sows, but he hasn't been incredibly efficient outside of until game four. We just decided to take over the whole series of the continent. Right. But up until Dan has been like, okay. Cool is good. But you can live with what he's doing. And then they just kind of wet the bid on that one. What was it like at the end of game four when there are all these Canadians in oracle, like, maybe? Shutting down the arena, forever and singing Ocana, like what an odd scenario. That was the I we were in a locker room and it's happening. We see all these videos, and I was like, wow. I mean for as, as a native, Oakland, there, it was like, I'm going to be this ain't ate. The Stephen Jackson bear Davis, late lawyers that will that grout with their invis- vite to that garage. There's no question about that. But that's foot for everybody else. It was like, wow. So this is this is what oracle is now. Let people come take over it was a real cool vibe. And that's that's kind of what has me excited about about game fives, like like even either way like history is going to be made in this series and it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, to experience like a country winning a championship liver. You know what I'm saying? Like that, that trying to coup and they kind of brought that live to Oakland was, like, man. This is lit like this is what this is what is supposed to be like, this is like, the best part of sports. So if they close this thing out for game five to Rondos gonna go nuts, like is going to be party in the streets, and I got six thirty AM flight. And now I need a reason to not go to sleep. So that's all I can get one teams down three to one in the playoffs in the NBA or eleven and two hundred and thirty three and. They are one in thirty three in the finals. I can't remember what that one one, one. I mean, look, if the other part of sports that are great or come back narrative, some Steph curry looked fatigued in game four. And maybe it was fatigue. Maybe it's frustration. I don't know. You know, steps mind better than I ever will Marcus. But win one steal this game in Toronto. Then it gets exciting. Then it sports. That's the other part of sports at a gray. Right. No question. If they somehow get this game I feel like I feel like that will be Toronto's like, you know, aptitude tests where championship by now. They now they'd be on the clock like all right now, you gotta go back to Oakland. It went on a road to try to prevent a game seven. I mean that's the ultimate like, are you ready for this? They could probably in that all in game five. Right. I mean, the way they're playing it just they just looked pretty unbeatable at least by this, this tired or thing. But if they let these warriors win this game that that's trouble because it's going to be tough to win third straight in oracle. That's two more days for Kevin Durant to be Kevin Durant. And once you start getting that energy going, I it's tough to go against so Toronto definitely needs to seize this opportunity like this there shot right now. Feel. Dumb to even be talking about this. Because like how many people are gonna listen to spot cast for the game comes out? But this is such an opportunity for Kevin Durant, who's never been really embraced and loved by the fans in Oakland. And the way that Steph has, and it's not particularly fair given how compromise he's gonna be with the calf. But if he were to do this, if you were to come back, Willis Reed style lead the team, you know in in game five and then to win the series, you know, for all that we kind of chuckle at, like legacies and narrative that would be a career defining sequence for him even if he's not eighty percent. Seventy percent sixty percent anything that comes back for ten minutes, demonstrates that, you know, the psychological part of the public relations part of it that I want to win. Got to be out there, even if I'm compromised, and even if it's just for a limited time to show, my teammates and show the city that I care that I want to do this. It's kind of setup for that. Right. It said up for him to be the hero and like from from what we've learned a last couple of days. Like, even though he doesn't talk like Durant is behind the scenes kinda pining to play. He just hasn't communicated, but like this is it right here, and I think this, this sets it up for return to like can you imagine if he comes out and plays halfway decent and they win this game. Like they were all the love was already trindon his way after he said, I'm Kevin to rent, you know, who I am and didn't win drop fifty right? There was already like this almost appreciate Katie movement happening in the bay. So if they win this game, and he's a he's a part of that, and he's out there. Limpid hit jumpers, you know, doing hold the thing. I think that carries some momentum into the offseason I couldn't make him say. Oh, y'all love me. Now, if you get that or could make people make him say, like look. This is what I've been waiting for this whole time, and they're going to a new arena. There's going to be had. It's going to have to be some kind of transition. It's kind of setting up that way, if it works out. This could be the grand beautiful story that the bay area has envisioned were now. They at the individ. All right. They end up as close as they've ever been and say, all right, let's, let's keep going into jas, if he does that this'll be like, man. That will be a real relentless pursuit to be the greatest right there. That will be fire off. Sweet, sweet transition, their markets, Marcus Thompson, right through the F letting his new book is K D. Kevin Durant relentless pursuit to be the greatest, you should buy it. Lago always got me say crazy stuff every time. Thank you for doing it. No problem. No problem. This week's episode of hang up. And listen is brought to you by Samuel Adams Samuel Adams summer ale captures. What's best about summer, hazy golden easy going days out in the sun? Samuel Adams has tweaked their recipe to make an even more summary a bit more citrus, a more subtle spice and a lot more refreshing with a more rounded citrus note summer ale is now lighter and brighter using peels from lemons, limes oranges and subtle grains of paradise. It's perfect pair with summer favorites like fresh seafood and clam bakes the Tangy citrus assured a compliment the rich buttery taste of lobster, while the ails effervescence elevates, the flavor perfectly start your summer off, right? With Samuel Adams summer ale. The Boston beer company, Boston, Massachusetts savor the flavor. Responsibly. Doctors are doing the best they can to fight cancer. The most challenging disease humankind has ever faced, but they're often limited by two d images to understand patients, three D anatomy. What if this could be different? Dr Christopher Morley in Dr Oshima's Chowdhry created meta viz, a technology that can take two dimensional patient. Imaging whether an MRI or cat scan and convert it into three dimensional holographic renderings, this will fundamentally change, how doctors visualized cancer doctor morally and Chowdhry, thought this technology might just not be possible because computing power just wasn't there. But Verizon five G ultra wideband will give them the ability to do this for is Isan five G ultra wideband will help give doctors the ability to fight cancer. Like never before. Before we get to the French Open. I want to invite everyone to stick around for our bonus segment for slate plus listeners will be joined by Ryan Lambert of Yahoo sports, and we'll talk about the Stanley Cup finals between the Boston Bruins and the Saint Louis blues to listen to that conversation, you need to join slate. Plus, it's just thirty five dollars a year, and you get bonus segments on this and other slate podcasts every week. Sign up at slate dot com slash hangup. Plus. On Sunday in Paris. Rough I on the doll beat Dominic team in four sets to win. His twelve French Open title, as a reader pointed out to SI's Jon Wertheim adult can lose in the first round of the next ninety one French Opens and still have a five hundred winning percentage at the tournament. So let's be sure to check back in with him in twenty one ten on the women's side. Australia's Ashleigh Barty beat Marquette vonda Shova of the Czech Republic in straight-sets to win her first grand slam Bharti who is twenty three years old. Quit tennis between the fall of two thousand fourteen in the spring of two thousand sixteen because she said she wanted to experience life as a normal, teenage girl and have some normal experiences among those normal experiences playing professional cricket. Joining us now is Louisa Thomas who writes about tennis for the New Yorker halo ISA high. Let's start with ash bardy. She won the final easily six one six three and appeared to exclaim what? The fuck at the moment of victory. So yes, she was pretty surprised it helped that Bharti face just one seeded player number fourteen Madison keys in seven matches in Paris. But she also won fourteen of the sixteen sets. She played that's tennis. You play who the draw tells you to play? And she played really well she played brilliantly during the final. She played exactly it about. She wanted to play a game with the nominal variety. She has a lot of composure in the big moment. And she. Yeah. You, you can only play the, the opponent across the net. And but you also have to play your nerves and she, she defeated both pretty well. I think. Birdie's such a fun game. She is the rare player. I mean, maybe you can come up with some some calms for us that we that she reminds me a little bit of Justyna, because very small, but extremely powerful and it's just so fun to watch our smashing forehands. She's got this like, ridiculous life, which you wrote about in, in one of your pieces, where it's an offense of shot for her. It's just like so sharp, and, you know, goes so deep into the court and she was also fourth on the women's tour an aces last year, and has like amazing kick serve. It's just like a very but pleasing combination of skills, especially for somebody her size. I think it's actually not unrelated. I think that she had very good people around her growing up and saw that she was not going to be one of these ball bashers from the back of the court because she's not going to be six feet tall. She's Tina, she's five fit five. And, and I think that might even be exaggerating. It sometimes when I see her standing next to other players, but so what they did. It said was that they created a game of an incredible variety. And she has the, the mindset to do it. She has the intelligence to sort of be able to read the situation, a no win to come in when to use slice when to change speeds. But certainly, she's not one of these players who just plays with touch. She has incredible a very heavy topspin forehand, and a great big kick serve, which is really good on quite, she's not normally in the past, she's not been very comfortable playing on clay, but she certainly has the weapons for a turns out of her story, so appealing because of what I mentioned in the introduction that she took this time off. She was your plastic teenager, and preteen pushed through competitive tennis. It was her life, and she reached a breaking point and decided to research. Set and did something really weird now took up, cricket and got to play for the Brisbane heat of the women's big bash league. And that is, I think it's feels good to see an athlete. It always feels good to see an athlete who has that self awareness and the ability at a very young age to say something is wrong here, I need to sort of start over or take a step away. And maybe I'll come back and maybe I won't. I mean, yes, she had already won like nine hundred thousand dollars by the time she was nineteen but still. An incredibly mature decision. And I think that also it speaks to her family, and the people are supporting her that they really encourage her to take whatever time she needed and figure out what she really wanted to do. She was traveling to international tournaments, a very young age and on she has spoken very openly about how homesick she was. And also, she was quite a perfectionist, and that can be a really difficult combination because, you know, tennis is fourteen which you are losing all the time. I mean, even we talk about Nidal's incredible record of the French. He's still not winning sixty percent of points. I mean, this is someone who has added a mental resilience to, to win again. And again, and again, even if you know point to point it feels like you're probably losing for tennis can be hard that way. And she really realized that she needed to take some time. She I don't think it some equipment that she decided to play a team sport. And I think that, that helps her a lot, and, and then she was able to come back to the game on her own terms. A lot of what she says or sad about what was so difficult for her about tennis is what NICU her countrymen says the differences that she did something about it that she did step away rather than kind of spend years. You know, playing the sport in a desultory manner, and just seeming miserable about it. Obviously, you know, we're going to take any opportunity to bash curious on on this podcast. Now, not really. How do you do you see their stories kind of in parallel? And do you think that, you know, there is a lesson here for him or is it are there scenarios, just two different? Now, I don't really know either them personally enough to say that, you know, this is this Aleutian for one person is clearly solution for another. I've always thought that Nick might benefit from a little bit of time away from the sport. But I also think it does, you know, there's so much pressure on a curious from his countrymen from tennis at large, and there's a lot of kind of negativity around him too. I mean, a lot about is because of self inflicted wounds, but I really was struck you know, reading about Ashburn story how much support she got when she decided to step away. There was a great online, and I'm going to butcher this. But, you know, she had the tennis legend sending her text saying you're doing absolutely the right thing. You know, go go go go have fun. Go. Relax. Coaches were were hugging her, and they've, they understood, you know, innocent someone who had shown so much promise to, you know, a former junior Wimbledon champion and the really the kind of promise and hope for a very, very tennis hungry nation, and there were saying, that's okay. You know, go go get better now feel better and then and then we'll see where you are. And I think that, that was really valuable, you know, when it happened, when she was a little bit younger to, you know, I think it might have been different if she'd been hottest kind of success on a very big stage and then done it, but, you know, it's always hard to know. So it's hard to, to read one situation to another. But certainly, I think that Nick urea is gotta try something different because whatever he's doing is not working. And certainly whether it's whether or not it's a perilous situation. I, I find a lot of hope and inspiration in Bardi store. Well, I wanna make another connection to an athlete that you'd know better. And that's Mona hell up. You did a long profile in the New Yorker of Hallam last month, and she also experienced the sort of, of sort of EPA Fanuc moment. I mean it for her. It came after winning a major, she won the French Open, but she discovered and you tell the story she was a negative person. She didn't like her persona on the court in like a persona off the court and a lot of ways. And she did step away in a more limited fashion, but there was introspection and help and change. She stepped away for two months. And that was actually, I think that a lot of the, the work that she did was while she was playing tennis. But yes, I think that she did have a real kind of fifty I realized that she couldn't keep going the way, she was going on her coach Darren Cahill helped make that clear to her. And then she really decided to commit to seeing a sports, psychologists and kind of more serious way. And also to sort of reckoning with, why, why was it that she was so frustrated with herself, so negative and why she sort of tried to preempt her own success by sort of saying, oh, you're not going to have to do it? And, and it really paid off. And she's really quite happy now by all accounts. So I think that tennis more than a lot of sports really is a mental game. We tend to kind of want to talk about psychology to exclude them everything else in when we talk about everything. Both intimacy in all sports. But this is a game where your state of mind really has consequences for the way you play doll said after winning the title that he was prouder of the emotional maturity that he was able to show in coming through the season than he wasn't actually getting the trophy. He had to pull out of a match against Federer at Indian Wells due to injury issues. And so he's just been really struggling he didn't win tournament until may for the first time in forever and just having the ability to recover from physical elements but also just like feeling really down. And like he wasn't able to play to the best of his ability with something that, you know, was super important to him. And very you know it was. Really telling that after winning the title extending ridiculous records that, that was the thing that he wanted to talk about, like everybody's going through something, and, you know, the folks who are able to get and the right mental state, and there are different path pathway to do that. Those are the ones who end up being successful. And you can actually see that happen in microcosm on team broken twice all immediately broke back. I mean he is someone who just has this incredible genius for being able to summon, whatever secret power is, he's able to summon in those situations on, I think that there are some pretty interesting stats on on when he is broken when a service broken he has ridiculously high break rate in the next game, and it's very, very hard to recover like that in when everything is happening so fast, you know, when, when something feels like it's slipping away, and I think if you, you know if you would wash that match and you saw the first sets you thought my gosh, team is like he's really bringing it, he's playing championship level, tennis and second two sets Nidal wins six one six hundred. I mean it just it's unbelievable the kind of mental fortitude he has. And yet he's not really given enough credit for that we really focused. On his ability to just physically grind away, but what he's able to do. I think it's coach Carles my after match mental genius. And that, that is really I think the story and we saw it in the semifinal against Roger Federer in the second set Federer had opportunities to, to close that set out the doll broke back to tell fended off. You know, looked to an normal observer to be sure signs that he was going to lose the set and move onto the third set. It didn't happen. This is unbelievable. I mean, I can't get over the fact that he seems to be playing that are at least on clay than ever before and playing differently. I mean I we all have recently by us. So, you know, I, I might not have said this by watched all eleven previous victories before watching this one, but, you know, for five years ago, I'm sort of talking with my friends about the kind of tragic decline in at all. And here we are, and he, he looks fresher than than Dominic team. And he's winnings, you know, over seventy percent of his first serves and you know, he's winning twenty three twenty seven points at net at all on play. I mean that's amazing. Some of his, you know, there was one point where he was at nannies trying to net. And he had this kind of, like stabbing backhand, volley lunging thing that bounced back, you know, bounced over the net. And then back toward. The net had so much backspin. I mean it was like it was a, you know, a circus shot. But the fact that he's able to sort of continue improving and expanding his game and, and not just sort of content to be the best quarter ever. But to be the best clay-court ever even by his own standards, is, is just mind blowing. But say a quick word about Dominic team who beat Novak of etch and the semis in five sets, which ended Jackovich's quest to be the holes are all four grand slam titles. So that's a obviously, a huge achievement for team wanna set often doll, which is also a huge achievement. It must be said, this is the second straight French final for him, the second straight loss in the French final Senegal. He is so good. He you know, we were talking about Bharti hitting heavy ball. Like I don't know if there's anybody in tennis who had to have your ball than Dominic teams. Yeah. Maybe an adult but he's a guy you know, we talk about how many French titles, Fedor would have won without an adult. It's pretty clear that team would have had. At least two, he can this continues, the remarkable like mind-bending stat that no man born in nineteen nineties ever wanna grand slam tournament. It just seems like his time must be coming at some point. It would not surprise me if he won the title next year, nor would it surprise me from the doll one it wouldn't surprise me either. In fact, like I'm just gonna continue betting on it all Intel retires at the French Open because he's earned it at this point. You know, he's he'll be forty years old, and like being wheeled out in the court, and I'll say, well, I can't get it all Louisa. Thomas writes about tennis for the New Yorker. Louis, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thanks for having me. This message is brought to you by hotels dot com. Every day, thousands of people booked trips on hotels dot com. Tom that you will later hate like on social media. What's a hate like it's when your friend Kyle posts envy, worthy vaca- photo, and you like it, even though you kind of hate it, it's not that you hate Kyle. It's that you hate that. He's on an awesome trip, while you're sitting in a bathroom stall, it work. Don't hate like Kyle's trip. Book your own with hotels dot com and get rewarded basically everywhere hotels dot com. Be there get rewarded. Last week in an interview with Isaac Charleston or of the New Yorker, Jalen rose, the former Michigan and NBA player and current ESPN talking head gave an interesting answer to why some players might not be accepting of modern analytics. There are many people that feel like it has a cultural overtone to it that basically suggests that even though I may not have played and you did. I am smarter than you. And I know some things that you don't know and the numbers support me not you rose, said the hosts of the ESPN talk show, high noon, Bomani Jones, and Pablo Torre took it further. Let's listen to a bit of their conversation. Bottom line is the Pat being a coach and being an executive for black dudes in the NBA has typically been to be a player now what they are trying to tell players is your knowledge is not good enough. Because it has to be something that is quantified will if that's the path for black guys to get into front offices and get to be coaches. Guess what's going to? Happen. You're going to have nothing but white dudes doing these jobs after a while I have two master's degrees in 'economics in the Sloan conference invited me to be on a panel on activism. Do you have any degrees in, like Matt stuff? I have not only do I have no degrees. I was really bad at Matt. What panels as you to be on when you go there? Well, I'm a moderator I'm not now but. To ask you to have moderated basketball analytic. Okay. Full years. Right. But the point remains if you ask most people to walk in this room and say, which one of these dudes is good at math. Who do you think they're pull it? They're pulling you. Absolutely. Absolutely pulling. And that is not something that I'm grinding. Right. Right. But I'm gonna run by bad, but the point I'm making is if you want to know how these pipelines get that way. Think of that. Very simple example, Marcus Thompson of the F rejoins us, now Marcus, I thought this was a fascinating conversation about the way we think about sports about how front offices shape. Our understanding of sports and about who gets the opportunity to do what jobs in sports about eighty percent of players in the NBA are African American. I'm willing to guess that eighty percent of the people holding jobs as analytics guys in NBA front offices are not African American Marcus. What did you think of that segment, Donald spectacular? Especially men that point money made. The in about how he's got to economics degrees and asked them to speak about activism, at this Sloan coverage of sign. Well, I mean I went to college Bomani. So hot. I know that is a strain of genius, but that was a pretty salient point about just the perception of it. And how Pablo that spoken on battles. It's lonely. He's fizzy is not even good at math. He gets to moderate, the analytics panels. Right. I you know, look, personally speak it like in my, I got this from my dad. He was the same way. We just have a complex as black men about being deemed as not smart and not dumb. And that is the undertone of this all. It's like yeah. You good you could. Like even I remember Mark technical July. Yeah. He's a good motivator. Right. And that's the, that's the labor you get. But all right now, this is big boy, stuff here. Like this is like brain stuff. So we need to go find this nerd and even know that nerd really might be good at it, right? Like that's why he's a nerd. The idea is all right now, we're getting to the educational part of the program, and we need you to step out and otter. I know exactly what they're saying why they're getting that it and why like it offends them because it's almost saying it just brings back the whole, you're not that smart thing. And there's a social component to like is bigger than sports. If you just look at the stem programs across the country, like who's in math and science, like, nobody's just funneling black kids to, to math and science like that. And that's the movement in, in inner city neighborhoods to try to bring spin programs like this stuff is all part of American history, just kind of plan out in sports and that, that's what the perception is like once if you're black right man can I see your four degrees from MIT before? I think you can actually do this messiah, Jerry, the GM of the raptors is African. He's a guy has gotten a lot of. Deserved. Love for for building. That franchise also. I just signed news item today that David Griffin. The new head of whatever his title is with the pelican, they're hiring swin cash WNBA. Yeah. The WNBA player to be like a top exact and so there are a bunch of pathways to get into front offices in the NBA. And I feel like there are a lot of Jalen made a lot of really good points, but money in Pablo made a lot of really good points. I feel like the NBA though is still ahead like baseball and the NFL and like everybody could stand to do the whole better. But I think it's like generally pretty cool like that. There are different routes to get to, you know, into front offices. And in the NBA. Yeah, there are no question, NBA better. I think like people like Jalen are concerned that because you're better, like, don't think you're actually good at it. Right. Like, not it's not really about being compared to NFL. It's about just being good at it. And like the problem is, there's a young man. I know who was trying to get on. I mean he tried he tried so hard for years, and it was crazy, like he would literally do free work and submit it, you know, he were literally do like he would volunteer took a job in the ticket office. Just so he could be close to that because he couldn't get on. He's, he's like buying stuff on his own buying software. Like running plays like he's doing. I mean he's doing everything he can get on. And then finally, he got a coach who was, like you know what I like your hustle like at work at the this is pretty good. Like, yeah. Like when I when I get. Yeah, I'm gonna try to bring you on next year and then they didn't bring it on because a son of another GM filled the spot. Right. So I made a call. Call. Like all you NS spot. We had to give it to this, the son of somebody else. And the problem is not like the avenues, it's like how do you get there? Like, how do you get noticed? And some of these analytics guys that we see, like you've never heard of these guys, they're like they're like, who are they whether they come from somehow they have access to the people who make the decisions, and like, obviously swin cash might be a great hire. But swing hashes unknown commodity like this. What about that, dude? Who's like really smart and knows this stuff really well, but he's not already in the circle. The question becomes how does he get in? What are the avenues to find the other minds that are out there and not just the people who already known to be smart? I think that's, that's the hurdle. The NBA needs to get across is that par finding the gyms that are outside of the, the typical community. Right. And I think that the point that Bomani, I'm Pablo really were making is less that the NBA isn't progressive in its hiring, it is the, the. That racial report card that Richard lap, chick does every year. The NBA got an a plus for racial airing in two thousand eighteen the issue is more if NBA analysis on court stuff the way we prepare and scout and, and, and higher players if that begins trending more and more and more toward quantitative analytics and the bulk of your applicants and quantitative analytics are white guys. They went to Harvard that is going to limit the pool. So it's either the NBA has got to be more diligent about finding, you know, it's not Johner show who's getting an MIT PHD in math, but finding guys that want to do sports analytics who are African American arm. I already and bringing them into the NBA, and I don't know where the NBA is doing that or not. They might be doing that. All we know they have they have hiring departments, and they, they search for qualified candidates. I'm so one hopes that that is what is happening and that. If the trend continues, which it's going to obviously, because that's how sports are. That's how sports are structured today that the leagues are the ones it's on them to go. Find these guys and to be to encourage the broader issue of stem education in the inner cities and minority students and you don't think also I big it does create more opportunities for women too, because if it really just comes down to work private right? Like I mean, you put women in the Knicks. They're gonna be just as good as men and it in a way it does remove the idea of, like move. The stereotypes in the perceptions by saying men who produces the organism make it about the work, right? But the question is, like, who gets in to compete and and as long as, as long as I don't think the NBA's the nine people the chance to compete, which that's just not how it'd be a rose. But it just got to be progressive effort to find other voices find other. You know, people in, in breakaway from the status quo, which the NBA does really well like you said, just hired swing gas and some of this. Let's not mistake it, right. Some of this, this traditional Jocson nerds like the endless rivalry that will go on forever. Right. Like the people who they'll have to play and the people who watch and don't know how to play, like that's never gonna die. So if there's going to be ever, be a bunch of people in influence in basketball, they've never played like the people who play will always have a problem with that somehow or other. It's the pipeline question is always really interesting, whether we're talking about journalism, or, or sports or any other field, but I think for a lot of kids out there who grow up, and they're like, huge basketball fans are like I want to be involved in the sport. But I'm like a five foot two white guy, there's like no way. They're like thinking from when their latest all like I'm going to be an NBA front office. Whereas like somebody who's action who's a player, they're like spending their whole life training to be on the court and to be in the league in a totally different way. So they're going to kind of inevitably be behind. Somebody who's been you know, planning this other RA route, which is an interesting. An interesting problem that is perhaps unsolvable solvable in a pretty simple way. And that is that if you are an. Educator, and you have a group of athletes in front of you, whatever sport, they play you encourage them to do things that will allow them to have a career in sports, that may not exclusively be on the court. You going to go to college? You know you go to college. You me one wanted. He's fine NCA institutions that are educated. Yeah. Well, I mean like in a perfect world. Yeah, that's exactly what they should be doing. They should be, you know, they should be majoring in sports management and analytics. It's yoga quick. It's doable. It is very doable. I, I mean I wrote about this. I think last year year ago, there's a program out in Oakland called the ingenious project and literally, they have freshmen sophomores who are doing analytics for high school teams. Right. They're, they're already starting this. And that's great. They're not saying I'm making NBA because by jumper. They're like, man, I Bob video breakdown skills are epic. Watching wash Vega, it'd be a and it was crazy, 'cause I've met, I, we're on a panel together and the war is like a panel. And we were on the Pat on this kid. He's fourteen and he's already like knowing the software's breakdown video that the warriors us, though, like you're right. It's creating opportunities. It's like it's making people who otherwise we'll have no shot being anywhere near the NBA. To be near the NBA, like, that's, that's real. That's real for, for people of color as real for women. That's real for the most anaphylactic people, right? Like you can actually be the NBA. It's crazy. But you can. So the only trick I think is just making sure people have the opportunity, you know, the NBA is still like sports and that it's a lot of like network base. Right. You hire people who, you know, and you're only as big you only as diverse as your network, so it ends up being something like that, in many ways. So probably there needs to be a better way to tap into that. My last thought on this is that, you know, Jalen rose made the point in his interview with as a Cotner that, you know, there's nothing that can substitute for playing the game for being out on the court in front understanding how the game work in practice. And I think there's some. To that. And I do really respect what Jalen has to say about basketball, and how it works that being said, like, you'll you'll recall that when moneyball came out Joe Morgan, who was one of the greatest player of all time, which is taking the dumbest stuff about, you know, analytics and stats. I think what the you know how the the best way to play baseball, essentially. And so there's this huge variance among players, I think, and understanding and being able to Fred and explain what it is that happens on the field around the court. So just in the same way that there are folks, an annex analytics departments who are better able to grapple with that stuff. I think that just like deferring to players which is it's, it's. Not that, that's still obviously. Yeah. I do think that's the part that players miss. And obviously, I mean generally, right? Smart. People can be smoke, so, like the more the more diligence, you think you are probably the more smokey come off, which it listened to reaction. Right. And I'm not saying all analytic were smokes. But generally speaking like they're talking about the arrogance of, of analytics people who think they know the game more than players, which might be a little bit straw, man. But you know that's what they're doing. But but really all analytics, it is for the people who really know what they're doing people like Sami. Gayle fan who was with words. And the pisses is they're coming up with a way to explain what happens on the court. Like that's all it is. It's like man. You know why you had a great game because you took advantage of this. Right. And maybe if we show you how this pattern works you can do that more. I. I don't think they are dive as diametrically opposed as present it right like, and the people who do inves-, they know how to marry the two, but I do agree with Jalen saying, like so much basketball is feel. The reason kyri is great is because like you could just throw stuff at him. And he will intuitively reacts with how he lanes out. He dribbles where he goes like there. No analytics for that. And the players will always maintain like you know, their desire to be respected for just the sheer talent they bring. But these are not two separate entities. Right. And as long as there's a basketball, there's missed the districts. It's not like this is like a new wave all young. Keep it numbers. Now like no, we've been keeping it, but it just translating what happens on a core and trying to put a quantify or on the emits talent. They have. Right. That's really what's happening. And when it marries, well, it works with imagine the class, you could design for players to understand statistics, and computer science and for computer scientists and statisticians at a young age to understand the dynamics of how a game is played. That's what you want, you want these athletes to understand what's going on in front of a computer screen, and you want the kids that are drawn to the analytics understand how the game is really played. That will be ideal. You want James harden, to know like, look, man, when you make this step back to the left. It don't work as well as when you go to the right. So maybe you should try to get that, right? Somehow, he's like knob and I'll feel comfortable going left with the setback. All right. Well, you just make it less often, like, is that, you know, that type of stuff that players use it to this is the funny part and they all use it, they're not like shunning it. They literally use it Draymond green has become an all star defensive player of the year, and, and probably a hall of Famer because of analytics, like he's reading tendencies in film, and breaking down a game to a level where it's not just I'm gonna get out there, feel what happens like not. He knows what, what your weaknesses which direction, you don't like to go like he knows all that stuff. And he uses it against this guy, so players, use it like it's the Marion of it, and it's also like the respect to right. It's the it's the choir. Is like how do we dole out the praise of it, like, who gets who gets the credit for the success? And I think maybe job creation is probably a way that, that credit is being dispensed and players alike. Hold on. Hold on some of that is us, Marcus Thompson is a columnist for the athlete is new book, K, D, Kevin Durant's relentless pursuit to be the greatest, Markus. Thanks a lot. I stick and around. It is all my pleasure. I'm not gonna give me some poo teen. And now it's time for after balls. Josh, I think we need to dig into ash Bharti's, cricket career with a name for her after all. So she as I mentioned earlier didn't really play cricket growing up. And during her sabbatical decided that she wanted to learn some cricket, and she was because she's a brilliant athlete. Pick that up really quickly and ended up playing for the Brisbane heat of the women's professional cricket league in Australia. And she played she played in like seven matches before deciding to go back to tennis. And I'm just going to read a paragraph from ESPN creek info story about this game in the second run chase. She didn't face a ball until the thirteenth over saw Lauren Winfield and Sammy Jo Johnson fall soon, afterwards and had to keep calm while accumulating nine from fifteen balls. Then she started working twos before branching out into boundaries, and finishing with a six down the ground. Her thirty nine from twenty seven balls was nearly top score of the innings of thirty to love. I think that was. Bash. I think that was a tennis reference at the end. The thirty love. I don't think that was part of the cricket commentary. But I don't think I understood anything in there. You know. So cricket, come on. You know what boundaries are, I know what abound, dri is, and I think Samuel Johnson. Don't play dumb with us. I think we should go with thirty nine from twenty seven it was her first and best game for the Brisbane heap thirty nine twenty seven will remember it will remember it all. It can't can't cantering nose up at thirty nine from twenty-seven Josh, Josh, what's your thirty nine from twenty seven. We discussed earlier in the program Raphael at all. When his twelve fringe open title over the weekend, his record at the French is now ninety three and two Nidal played the tournament for the first time as a nineteen year old he beat Roger Federer, and the semi finals of the two thousand five French Open enforce sets in their first match ever on clay in the final. He beat a fellow named Marino Puerta Puerto from Argentina. He was twenty six years old at the time he'd never made it past the third round in a grand slam tournament. Puerto was best known for getting suspended for doping in two thousand three he tested positive for Clinton buehner. All he was banned for two years. That's ends was reduced to nine months after he succeeded in arguing that he took the medication for asthma, and that it had no performance enhancing benefits at the French in two thousand five Puerta took the first set from the doll. Seven six. He dropped the next three six three six one seven five. Shame and losing ten doll- at the French, but there was a lot of shame and what happened to Puerto next. He got banned for taking drugs again, this time for eight years. He was forced to forfeit all the ranking points and prize money. He won at that French Open. So that was all I knew about my man Mariano before looking at this case. And I must say did they very strange case where to provide a urine sample immediately after that French Open final? It was found to contain the cardiac stimulant Etel freen in his appeal of the year band. He appealed it to the court of arbitration for sport. Puerto explains that he'd unintentionally ingested his wife's medication which she took for, hypertension, and menstrual pain. He said that on the day of the French Open final. He met up with his wife and her mother and her brother and the onsite cafeteria where he drank coffee and mineral, water Puerta. Then went to the locker room where he learned the match would be delayed at which point, he went back to the cafeteria, the court of arbitration for sport case documents has during the period of his absence from the cafeteria, MRs Puerta said that she had changed her position at the table to the chair in which her husband had previously been sitting she then proceeded to drop twenty drops of her medication into a glass filled that glass with water and drank the mixture. She then departed from the room leaving her brother behind the table alone. Mariano Puerta, then said he poured water on the bottle of water, which he was carrying with him into the glass from which he believed that he had been drinking earlier and drank it, he claims that the glass appeared to be empty, but that he later came to believe that it held the residue which has wife had previously left behind when she pours her medication into the glass. Classic case of water glass residue. So that's the story. He told in it's ruling the CAS noted that athletes must be aware at all times that they must drink from clean glasses, especially in the last minutes before I major competition at the same time they wrote that the quantity found of the prohibited substance. And Mr. and was so minute hundred ninety two nanograms per milliliter that it could not have had any performance enhancing effect, and the CAS pretty much bought where it's a story about the switch glasses and the cafeteria and the chairs saying that the amount of the drug in his system was consistent with him, having ingested it, having ingested one drop of the medication five hours before he donated the samples Mariano Puerta truth teller in the end. The panel reduced suspension all the way down from eight years to two years, which I guess is the penalty for not being aware at full time. So you must drink from clean glass, he did not. Get his prize money or ranking points back, though. And although he resumed his career in two thousand seven he never played in a grand slam singles tournament again. It's always Frank from a clean glass stuff, especially when you're playing Raphael in the down the friendship and final. Thank you, for the tip, Josh. Anytime. Stephan. What is your thirty nine from twenty seven Norway opened its World Cup by thrashing, Nigeria three to nothing in group a on Saturday? I missed that game but I watched the highlights. And I've got to say that the lawn Sloggitt as the team is known looked pretty happy after scoring each goal, even though they're playing without the world player of the year oughta Hege Burg. We talked about Hege Burg on the podcast last week with Julie Foudy, and we all agreed that Hecker quitting the national team in two thousand seventeen and refusing to rejoin it did appear to be at the very least odd Hege bird. We said offered only vague reasons for the falling out that she was unhappy with unfair treatment of women's football in Norway. And that Norway federation had actually gone ahead and equalized pay between the men's and women's teams since then. So what was the problem which I guess, put me in the same camp as the Fox Sports studio? Panel that mostly ripped Hagberg for failing to articulate. Her grievances more precisely former German national team player, Arianna Hingst said that if Heckert wanted to fight for something she should be doing it with her teammates. Former Australian player Cape guilt praised Hecker bird for being firm in her convictions, and acknowledged that we might never know what her beefs actually are then former US international hetero Riley said that Heckert blew a chance to use the World Cup to air her grievances. If she was a little bit more specific, she would gather a lot more respect from us. O'reilly said the women's spoke for thirty twenty and twenty five seconds respectively. But we weren't done. Former US men's player Alexi Lalas lectured Hagberg for forty seconds. Let's listen to his comments on what do you want? You have to be specific specific things. Vague generalizations. That's, that's not, that's not the way to affect change. I think what she's doing right now in a strange way. She's hijacking. Attention. From her. Teammates and her friends right now at the most important moment and her caused us I said it may be incredibly righteous noble, but until you were actually specific as to what you want. It's very, very difficult to change. And I think it's a cop out to say, well, I didn't wanna make public 'cause I didn't want to take attention. We just didn't entire segment about her because she is arguably the best player in the world and she's not at the World Cup. If messy or Rinaldo did that we would have answers, we would know what lawlessness at sanctimonious speechifying instantly made me question my own feelings about the story and it turns out that Hubbard has in fact been fairly specific about what led her to leave the national team. She quit shortly after Norway lost all three games and didn't score a goal in the group stage at the European championships in two thousand seventeen she said at the time that she disagreed with the federation over how the team should move forward. And that officials quote haven't been good enough at communication. No matter whether things have gone, well, or poorly, and quote, my slate. Colleague. Molly olmstead quoted, eight contemporaneous interview in the Norwegian newspaper often posted in August of two thousand seventeen in which Berg said that the Norwegian women's team was treated worse than the men's team in terms of pay working conditions investment at the youth and club levels and team culture. Heckert also complained about a lack of him Bishen among her teammates, she said, she would leave the national team training camps believing. She had regressed as a player those are pretty specific complaints. In another interview published last week in a Norwegian soccer magazine Joseph, mar Heckert, said it was tough it so many camps, I've been broken mentally, I had nightmares after being with the national team. If you wanna get anywhere in life, you have to make choices after deciding to quit the team, she said everything just ran off, and I started to sleep. Well, again, I wonder whether members of the media men and women alike, have dismissed Hege birds complaints, not because they didn't bother. Doing a clip search or asking someone who speaks Norwegian to translate those stories from twenty seventeen but because they were inclined to not take her seriously from the start after all when Hege brick won the belonged or award as the best women's soccer player in the world last year. The French celebrity emceeing the ceremony asked her to twerk. We have no idea how Hege Berg was treated by the sport across who run Norwegian soccer and we have no idea how she got on with her teammates and coaches on the national team. Those things all matter and no doubt contributed to her decision, and, yes, Hege, bergh's, refusal to repeat each complaint over and over hasn't helped gather a lot more respect from us as a Riley, put it. But heck number doesn't need hetero. Riley's respect or mine, Alexi Lalas complained. That Hecker was hijacking attention from Norway's World Cup team. But if she was in France, playing on the team odds are she wouldn't be using our platform to fight for better treat? Of women athletes, and girls and she certainly doing that now and getting attention for it. So she's damned if she does, and she's damned if she doesn't, I've changed my mind, oughta Hagberg is entitled to make choices about a professional career and then entitled to speak specifically about the mess. She wants. She doesn't know anyone shit certainly not. Alexi lalas. That is our show for today. Our producers, Patrick fort to listen to pass shows on subscribe, or just reach out, go to sleep dot com slash hang up, and you can Email us hang up at slate dot com. If you've made it this far you may want some more hang up, and listen in our bonus segment for sleep plus members Ryan Lambert of Yahoo sports joins us to talk about these Stanley Cup finals between these Saint Louis blues and Boston. Bruins, I think everybody recognizes that's the way the NHL is going, and the question becomes, how do we get officiating to keep up with that to hear that conversation? Join slate plus for just thirty five dollars for the first year you can sign up at slate dot com slash hangup. Loss for Josh Levin. I'm Steffan fats this remembers Elmo baby. And thanks for listening.

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What Was The Last Dance?

Slate's Hang Up and Listen

1:15:26 hr | 9 months ago

What Was The Last Dance?

"The following podcasts contains explicit language people who are listening for the first time my here bad word to Hi Josh Levin Slates National Editor and the author of the Queen. This is hang up and listen for the week of May Eighteenth. Two Thousand Twenty on this week. We're going to do our last ride with the last dance. Assessing the final two episodes the documentary and the series as a whole. We'll also be joined by broadcaster. I ego we'll speak with us about the challenge of Calling Games remotely. Finally we'll talk about a new. Nfl proposal would give teams better draft picks if they hired minority head coaches and general managers. Hello from Washington C. Home of your Washington Wizards an NBA team that exists just throwing that out there also in DC is friend colleague Documentary Aficionado. Stephan fats US author of the Book Word. Freak and a few seconds of panic. Hello Stephan I hear that Michael Jordan guy played for the Washington Wizards dirty vicious rumor. Also with US Samantha and for winning on the track in the crossfire gem and a little game that we call life slade staff writer. Slow-burn host Joel Anderson schedule. Hey Good morning. I'm not the loser. That Michael Jordan thinks this leave it at that. Think no better way. To and our pre show after ten hours an untold number of cigars glasses of Scotch and perceived. Ba last dance at waltzed offspring on Sunday night but Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls winning their sixth and final championship. Although there was a notable segment on the murder of Steve Kerr's father in Beirut the last twenty percent of ESPN's documentary series mostly focused on basketball with an emphasis on the Bulls battles with the Indiana Pacers and the Utah Jazz towards the end of the series owner. Jerry Reinsdorf gave his explanation for this series of central mystery. Why break up a team? That had just wanted all for the third straight time. Reinsdorf said that Scottie. Pippin Denis Rodman Ron Harper Steve Kerr were too old and expensive and bringing them all back for a run at eighty seventh title would have been suicidal Jordan. Watching reinsdorf on an IPAD says that this is rubbish that everyone should have had the opportunity to come back and do it all over again and in the documentary we hear this exchange so is it then SAS fine to leave at your no or is it madden is maddening. Because I felt like we could one seven. I really believe that we may not have but bad just not able to try S S. Something that I just can't except for whatever reason I just can't accept it so this is where we leave Michael Jordan Joel. He's unable and unwilling to accept the storybook ending that he wrote by sticking that jumper over Brian. Russell in Utah He doesn't acknowledge that he did write a new less story. Bookish ending for himself in Washington. Dc But he's also I think justifiably annoyed that the Bulls Dynasty ended the way that it did. Yeah the ending to me. In many ways undermined the premise. That Jerry Krause was villain here in confirmed the Jerry. Reinsdorf held a lot of the cards. Here it is important to acknowledge that though the idea that it would have been suicidal. Bring Back Dennis. Rodman Scottie. Pippen Kerr and Luc. Longley among others seems ridiculous. But it's not necessarily wrong. If you consider the fact that Scotty and Dennis were significantly diminished the next year and the lockout shortened season. Michael Jordan sliced his finger. Walk cutting a cigar that offseason and would have missed at least a few months and it wasn't even clear that Scotty and some of those other guys wanted to make the kind of sacrifice that would have been necessary to return for another year. So although reinsdorf is technically right and that the Bulls probably would not have won a championship or they would not have been the same team that they had been the year before he didn't want to pay for it and he allowed Jerry. Krause sort of stand in the breach there and take all of this abuse. It seems like he was pulling the strings behind the scenes all the time. Yeah that seems like a good assessment. Joel I mean did REINSDORF Call Phil Jackson and ask him to come back because he had second thoughts and wanted to overrule Jerry. Krause says did Phil Jackson. I WanNa take a break. It wouldn't be fair to Jerry Krause to overrule him. That seems plausible as well. I mean the part that is most ridiculous here involves Jordan and Jordan's belief that if he and he alone had told Scottie. Pippen Steve Kerr and Dennis Rodman and Ron Harper. That they should come back for one more go round a diminished salaries. They would have been willing to do that. And that's not clear to us because nobody else has asked in the documentary whether they would have been willing to do that maybe they were. This was enough for them. You know they've one three or six or some number in between and they were ready to go play somewhere else and not get yelled at all the time as a tourist grant or Luc Longley or somebody else said in a previous episode. Well Scotty is the interesting question. There I think Jordan we do hear from Jordan that everybody except Scotty definitely would have agreed to do it which I think is probably true and then he sort of kind of waves away the scotty question. It's like yeah that would have been an issue but if everybody was coming back then Scotty wouldn't have missed out on that. We don't hear what Scottie Pippen's answer to that as we don't know if he was asked and didn't answer we don't know if he was asked and answered and they didn't put it in the documentary. Which would have been aware choice? Or we don't know if he wasn't asked but that was a huge missing piece that we didn't hear from Scotty Pippin on that question and you know we've lingered a lot on the stuff that we don't hear and that we don't see in this documentary the fact that Jordan's tenure with the wizards wasn't even mentioned in the onscreen text crawl at the end was weird but the biggest mission to me. You know if we're going to just say all right. We'll take documentary on. Its own terms. These last two were on about basketball. Mostly you know. Seemed like they were edited. More quickly Because they they didn't have much time to finish these these last two. But you know the person we didn't hear from such an interesting character. Here is Brian Russell. Who Jordan says in his hall of fame speech you know. He tells the story that he tells here about how Brian Russell like talk shit to him during the baseball year. During a pickup game. And saying you know you quit because you know I could lock you down on defense and this was another of the slights that drove Jordan. I put him on my list. Good but Brian. Russell is a guy who had to work really hard to get into the NBA. He was a guy who had his moments in those NBA finals series. But he was also somebody that he was the guy who you know doubled off of Jordan till like double team Scottie. Pippen to allow Jordan to make like a game. Winning three one of his final series Jordan made two game winning shots over him. And we don't hear from him and he's a you know his perspective on this in his journey. Here I think are extremely interesting and probably would be more revelatory than anything we hear from Jordan. What's what's interesting to think about here. And of course. It doesn't come up in this documentary. Is that Baron? Russell played with Michael Jordan in his last year. With the wizards and so. I don't know that has anything to do with why we didn't hear him here if they did not interview him at all but it is worth noting that he had a relationship with Michael Jordan. That went past that. You know that time with the Bulls. He got the experience Michael Jordan in the locker room in see the kind of do that. He was and dealt with a day to day basis and all of a sudden we. We don't hear from him even though he plays this pivotal role in making machine of Michael Jordan. So I can think of a lot of reasons why you can hear him. I'm sure they wanted to talk to him and he just didn't WanNa talk. I mean that seems like that like explanation but it's it would have been nice to hear from him Absolutely should we talk about the pizza? Yeah let's talk about the well. This is all going back to the myth making machine around the Jordan brand right like first of all. Why would you ever eat anything? Brought to your house by five people at once. Like it's not clear WHO's deliver? Who like why were there? Five people necessary to bring a pizza to your room Joe. I think we need to set the context here for a no we do. We do we right. So this is the nine thousand nine hundred. Ninety seven finals against Utah the Bulls are in Utah and before game. Five Jordan is hungry late at night. He's with his guys in his room and they have apparently Decem and not had dinner with him for some reason and Jordan says I'm hungry and so his people order him a pizza. That's the setup. That's the setup. Well I mean it sounds like you're the one buying into the myth making here like the documentary wants you to believe that somehow sketchy that five people are delivering the pizza to him But the director in an interview after this episode aired was like. I don't believe that Michael Jordan was poisoned and then seemed like unable or unwilling to answer the question of like. Why did you put something in the? Why did you insinuate something and the documentary that you don't believe like you're left with your left to believe the Michael Jordan was poised. Yeah RIGHT THE PEOPLE OF UTAH. Yes and that's also that how food poisoning works like you don't like normally takes like twenty four hours before something like that really starts to bubble. I mean maybe Michael Know. Michael Jordan has a body that is unique to Oliver so maybe poisoning metabolize based pizzas and four hours or less right the part of the documentary interview that Jason here did with Jalen rose and Jacoby on ESPN. That was very jordan-esque. Is that in describing the scene? The director says that he told him that the pizza arrives. Jordan doesn't want anyone else to eat any of it so he spits on the pizza to reserve it for himself. This is weird behavior. He treated everybody like Horace Grant. Then you WANNA eat horace grant allow horace. Grant wasn't allowed to eat if I didn't think he should eat and guess. This rule applies to all of his friends friends and quotes. Yeah it's just is Georgia's an exceedingly weird dude and we don't see in this one of the problems with the documentary and I'm GonNa say some nice things about it eventually but we had twenty two years to sort of really investigate. The claim here right that the flu game. This is something that happened and it was the flu in quotes. And we're left with the same mythology the same like you know insinuation. That Michael Jordan overcame an obstacle placed in his way. Not that this is something that he did to himself which you know he was sick because it's something that he may have done to himself for that he just a normal human got sick before a game that no this is yet another brick in the foundation. That Michael Jordan was constantly overcoming things that were placed in his way. And that just said this is the story. This is the story that Michael Jordan has tells himself about the flu game. The flu is to human. The flu is normal. I got sick. I don't know how but I got sick. So he has created a story that is more dramatic. And More self-centered the fans of Utah wanted a poison. Me AND FIVE. Jude's working at a pizza shop. Got An order. Knew it was a delivered to my room knowing that I was the only one that was going to eat it and then I got sick and went out and torched Utah the next night. One of the five delivery people at a poison tipped umbrella suspicious. He was driving batmobile to. Well you guys you guys said a couple weeks ago. I think I questioned at at the time. But you're right all acknowledge that this documentary was designed to give Jordan the last word on every topic very true accurate conservation. And that's all the absence of all the wizards stuff is one part of it. The way that the director acknowledges not believing certain things that are said but not including interviews or material that might undercut it. It's pretty damning right. I mean it's not journalistic It's not what you would do if the thing that you care about. Most is presenting an accurate and truthful picture of of what happened so You know the other thing. That's like Super Weird and the last episode of the series is that we learned that Michael Jordan has children right. Jeffrey Marcus and Jasmine Jordan. Make on camera appearances where they say nothing interesting. They're just like Oh yeah we didn't like Utah and one is left to conclude since we're just kind of talking about insinuations here that they were added at the end because people noticed that they weren't in the documentary. Like that's the only explanation that makes sense. That Jordan Jordan has a family. Let's let's include that. Yeah I mean there wasn't really a place for them here. I mean I don't. I don't think we needed Jordan's kids to understand that Playing in Salt Lake City was really difficult. You know. I don't know what they had to add there but you know it. Does you know rebutting the criticism that there were no family members. There there Michael Jordan was a you know this lone wolf. They had no family. I think misunderstands the criticism in rebutting. Yeah Right Right. I do want to say this because I do think that the final two episodes where real payoff of the documentary and that the behind the scenes footage was supposedly. The you know th the foundation of this. That's what everybody wanted to see. And this is how this whole project happened. Well we finally got to see it right. We finally got to see Dennis. Rodman running away from the media after skipping out for wrestling do in w a WCW wrestling event. We get to see Phil Gathering at the team to tell them. The dentist dishonored them. We get to see my you mind telling Larry Bird. Hey Bitch fuck you you know. We get a lot of that stuff. And that's the stuff that I think that people wanted to see because that was that was what it was building. Oh these behind the scenes footage of Jordan's last year will here. It is and I'm glad we got to see it. You know so. I was fascinated by the documentary all the way throughout inspite of the criticisms we have but it was this sort of stuff seeing Michael Jordan dancing to Kenny. Lattimore rooms is a sort of stuff that you wanted to see. You hope that you would see when we got started on this five weeks ago. Yeah and the footage that I felt encapsulated. The entire documentary was after they win the last game in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight and Jordan walks into the locker room a lot of the players already there because he's been doing interviews or whatever and the greetings he got worse. Oh half hearted that it was really jarring to me and the after party scenes were also really weird. Jordan feels very isolated. It doesn't feel like his teammates. Once they get off. The court are particularly interested in sharing this moment with him or even look terribly excited about what they've just accomplished. Think you might be projecting a little bit there. Players seemed pretty happy to Miami and especially on the court. I don't know man. It was a lot of sort of half ask handslaps walking around the room. I will say this. I've been on a thirty for thirty bins in the last month. Or so. So revisited. The documentaries on Magic Johnson Dennis Rodman and the bad boys among others in what I did notice by comparison that those bulls celebration seemed a lot more subdued in stilted after that initial burst of euphoria. Right like everybody gets excited on the court. There is the burst of euphoria of euphoria. But then you see in these other documentaries Magic Johnson. You know hardly hugging people and porn champagne on each other. And it's like everybody is like very happy there's a lot of warmth in a camaraderie. I didn't see that in any of these bull celebrations not in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight. Yes certainly not in nineteen ninety eight. Maybe that's just the mission of editing or whatever. Maybe that's just an editing choice and we didn't get to see that but I didn't get the same feelings of warmth from those championships. In comparison to the other ones that we saw with other superstars right. What about the warm exchange between Jordan and Leonardo Dicaprio DECAPA was famous then on second thought the the lack of warmth that I'm talking about was after they beat the Pacers before he tells bird? Fuck you so. I guess it was only the Eastern Conference finals and it was only game. Seven but yeah. They didn't look very excited. Well there was the sense that this was a relief that there's a lot of pressure and it was a huge burden on them the whole season. So that's fair enough. I mean I think the thing that was really revolutionary to me and back to what I said an introduction is that after Jordan goes through his whole spiel on How was unfair and unjust that they weren't given a chance to when seven title Phil Jackson like. Yeah it was time to end. It was a good team. It's time to go. We're we're ready. That have been done. And you know Phil Phil. Jackson has his own problems. Certainly not a perfect guy but that does I think in very short form. Encapsulate the difference between those men and also just between Jordan and other people who are more I guess I'm motionlessly available or like not stunted is just the idea that like you should be grateful for the good things that happen to you and your life and hold on to those and he had a really really great. Ron May the one of the best rounds ever But he just really hangs on to everything that was taken from him that he was deprived of that. He was denied that other people tried to stop him. And you know maybe that propels you to greatness. Maybe you think that propels you to greatness but it clearly makes you angry and unhappy and not content with you know accomplishments. That are extraordinary. And that's just a really said disconnect it is and it that ultimately is one of the things that undermines the documentary Gotham Chopra director who Did the coast the Kobe. Bryant documentary stuff. There was A. He's quoted in a piece in the Washington Post Ben Strauss about the vanity project. Nature of the last dance and Chopra says about working with Kobe. It turned into a form of therapy creative ownership over something is also agency over his own story and that makes a big difference whether it's Kobe Jordan or anyone else and while that is absolutely true. What's revealed here is that that is creatively powerful. If the subject is thoughtful and introspective if the subject is willing to sort of reconsider his the kiss career arc. Kobe was willing to do that. And Jordan obviously was not or wasn't able to to build off that point in these last two episodes. We get to see Steve Kerr who is like a real delight You know that I could do without some of the self-deprecation okay. Ucla didn't want you. But you still managed to get into Arizona. You're you're pretty good Steve. But at the end he gives up the game all of this when he says about Michael Jordan. We saw him as a bully right and he had said earlier. In the documentary it was very difficult to reach him emotionally. And so I just got the sense that as we come to the end here that it was really unfulfilling for all of these people. Just don't get the sense then. Being a champion was fulfilling or a pursuit that it's worth pursuing because it alienated Michael Jordan from everybody in his life you know it seems like and I think about even Scottie Pippen Scottie. Pippen sacrifices bodies sacrifice money for the greater glory of the Chicago Bulls and Michael Jordan and Michael Jordan never even fucking said like. I never saw him. Come to the to the Defensive Scottie. Pippen and say hey man that guy laid it all on the line for me after that game six in Utah it was all about. Jordan's heroics not about Scotty fighting through a back injury that would set most other people down and I just think sort of encapsulates everything that we saw coming with Jordan in this documentary that it's all about him in his greater glory and everybody else was there to serve to help him and if they felt the way they felt that's how they felt. But Michael Jordan care all right last dance. Thank you for all the content. We appreciate it. The Bundesliga returned over the weekend and bt sport in the UK was there to cover every touch and by there. I don't mean in the families stadiums in Dortmund and Berlin but rather in the homes of producers directors and commentators scattered across Britain. That's certainly going to be the setup. When live sports return to America play by play and color brought to you not from Wrigley Field or the staple center but from ESPN and NBC studio booths in Connecticut or from their home offices or home offices of their wives which is from our next guest joins us? He is Eagle who calls the NFL for CBS the NBA for TNT and much much more. Welcome back to the show. I am great to be with. You guys This is not necessarily the way that I would like to fill airtime with you. But it's still something at least connected to normalcy in some way that we can talk about sports as I'm sure you know the very first live sports on the radio on K. D. K. And Pittsburgh in one thousand nine hundred ninety. One was based off of reports. Telephoned into announcers Ronald Reagan. And even more famous play by play guys did it. Converting phone calls and teletype messages into gripping game narratives. I'm guessing you're not quite old enough to have called the game off them but remote broadcasts have been pretty normal before Kovin even for big events like the Olympics World Cops College Football. Give us a little context on how often you've called the game this way. And under what circumstances yeah so for me. Obviously I've been more of the traditional broadcaster from the start of my career but I have received some assignments that were a bit unconventional and was asked ahead of time. Are you comfortable this? Nba Games? Sometimes you're not going to be in the same exact venue as the actual event. I got hired by the NBA to call the NBA finals. The Miami Heat in the San Antonio Spurs two thousand thirteen and I did it from a studio in Beautiful Secaucus New Jersey and did every moment of every game of that series off of the large screen. My broadcast was Jim Spin Arkell. We had a little production meeting before we went ahead and did our games and tried to treat it as normal as usual but not being at the game means that you're doing a more general call a you're not picking up the nuances. You're not feeling the energy from the crowd and often you had to supply your own energy now. The difference there you were getting ambient noise back into your headset. So there was a little bit of the Crescendo. That would build from an audience but your own personal energy you had to generate yourself and the whole goal for an announcer is to convey the emotion and drama of an event. And you can still do that through your voice. But there's no doubt there will be an adjustment period if there are no fans in the stands and then decisions will have to be made in regards to the noise that is going to accompany the event itself. Will they pump in crowd noise? A will they see that as almost like a laugh? Track like you would get on a Sitcom and it's an interesting analogy because seinfeld which was one of the great sitcoms wall time laugh track. It worked it played curb your enthusiasm which I enjoyed equally. If not more at times and Seinfeld no laugh track and it played it worked but a completely different viewing experience. I just real quick for a second. You called the Ray Allen three from a remote studio correct. Oh my gosh what. How did that I mean like you said I mean that must have felt weird? Did you feel the emotion of that moment from a remote studio? I did because everything had been building in that game and given that was not game one. That was game six so I had some experience in how to handle the ups and downs of broadcasting from remote location. It wasn't the first time that I had done it. In fact I did the world basketball championships with bill raftery in a studio in secaucus although the Games were being played in Barcelona getting a tap of the entire first game throughout your in Barcelona. Now I'm in Secaucus that's when people texted you. They wouldn't say birth alone. They would say barstool people in particular foot t h in there during Barcelona. Yeah it it was a little odd because people just assume you're there I never once said or try to convey the idea that I was at the event but I think there's just a general connection that people make if your covering the event the assumption is. Oh he must be there well. Let's listen to a clip of you calling that rail and Buzzer beater and the two thousand thirteen finals. Rebound Bosh got it clears Alan fire drills ninety seconds to go so it's a great call in the question that I had for you. I N as one the you kind of got to in your first answer. Which is how much of this is real. And how much of it as performance you know we know you know you're dripping with sincerity and everything that you do but how much of that irregular game and in a remote game are you kind of acting. Are you trying to convey emotion? And just that. Maybe isn't isn't there but you want the viewer at home said feel excited. It's a fantastic question and probably does not get talked about nearly enough when we discuss sports casting. In general I think as you evolve in your career you begin to figure out what energy level is required for the event that you're calling and to say that exactly the same for every event that I do. There's a consistency in my approach. There certainly a consistency in my preparation but the job requires the marriage preparation and performance so my preparation which I take a lot of pride in in getting ready for any event. Sometimes I'm calling five to six games in a week and it varies from a television football game to a football game on the radio to NBA Games local to NBA Games. National to a college basketball. It could be in one week so to say that I'm going to be exactly the same for every. Single event is not a fair statement of course There's going to be a variance and in how I approach it. How I cover it and how I use my voice if you're doing a game where the home team is on a flurry. Football basketball doesn't matter. The crowd is going to play a much larger role. And you're going to have to push your voice in order to break through with the crowd and create this blend where your voice is connecting with the crowd if the same exact thing is happening with the visiting team and the crowd is playing no role. And you're now going at a nine or a ten with your vocals. It's not gonNA come across the same way because you don't have the backup there so there is performance involved in this job and of course when you've got a great highlight in the NBA. When Moore of Albert said Hey spectacular move by Michael Jordan? Of course? He happened to pick the right word in the right moment and he punched it in the exact perfect way and he also recognized that in that moment it was probably GonNa live on for a long time. If you have the right call and the right words in the right moment it can elevate that moment the issue here with remote games there. There are multiple ones. I mean one is something you mentioned a few seconds ago which preparation you're not in the arena. You know you might not be doing the same kinds of interviews before a game with athletes with with coaches. You know your NFL game where you get to sit down with a members of the staff and talk to players the days before. So you're you might be losing something of the human connection in terms of what you're able to relate and that's just one thing right oh no doubt about it now. A whiz Zun becoming such a big part of our lives. I could easily see that transitioning to our new normal in covering sports where you will get the players that you asked for on an NFL Sunday but the interview will now take place via laptops and your hope is. You can still cultivate some information that can be used over the course of your broadcast but the human connection certainly is going to be affected. There's going to be an adjustment period. Here there's no doubt about it. The next part of the equation will be the sterile nature in the conditions. That you're working whether you are on site. Let's say the NFL makes the decision? They deem the announcers -sential but no fans in the stands. You're in your broadcast booth. You're in your typical setup yet. The game does not have the feel that had during normal conditions. And now it's up to you to generate the energy or to gauge. What's required you? The one thing that I would say in regards to the performance aspect that we were discussing it still has to be authentic. If it's not coming from a real place listeners viewers. They sniff it up. They know something doesn't fit which doesn't belong in. Why that highlight didn't deserve that. Bega call or that highlight was actually better than the call that you provided that in the moment split-second when you have to make those decisions broadcaster you've got to determine whether or not your voice is matching the action or are you underplaying overselling. All of those things are done in a millisecond and now when you don't have a crowd to help you figure all of that out that that's going to be based more on your gut instincts Bryan curtis story for the ringer about. This was great and he did a really good job of kind of demystifying. How guys like you call games in an arena stadium versus at home and I was wondering if you could walk us through that like an NFL game. You might actually be watching a lot of the game on the Monitor from You know the six level or whatever. So can you just kind of walk through football and basketball and What some of the kind of advantages and disadvantages are calling it and the stadium versus remote away. My play by play career started. I began in radio so when I started with the nets. Nineteen Ninety four ninety five. That was all. I knew I had no television experience whatsoever at a blank canvas and I was told by anyone that was an expert in the field. You are the conductor. You're in charge. What you see is now the picture that you're going to paint for the listener. That's driving in their car. That's doing some gardening in the backyard. That string of beer on the deck. Whatever it might be so when it's put in those terms it's fairly easy to understand. Okay I'm going to paint the picture. I transitioned to television the very next year and it was a whole new world it was more of an analyst medium so that was the first thing that struck me. I was working with Bill. Raftery who is a brilliant guy and what you see is what you get and a lot of times. I was getting out of his way but I also realized that the producer the director. They were steering the ship more than I was as the play by play announcer football. I got the jets. Radio job in nineteen ninety-seven same situation as three years earlier. Paint the picture. The next year I get the CBS job covering the NFL. And I'm doing TV now with some experience behind me at the local level so the transition wasn't as big elite and to be honest with you. The transition wasn't that big league for me from ninety four to ninety five because I hadn't really developed any habits. It was still very new so in a way it probably benefited me. That I hadn't done radio for fifteen years in a sudden now. I had to change what I was looking for. And where my focus was concentrated on basically when I got to the television side of things. I realized that I needed to talk to pictures. This is the essence of what we're doing if fans can't see what. I'm talking about Ben. There's a disconnect and you have to get on the same page as you're producer and director and you have to use that talk back button that goes directly into the truck if you see something. They're not seeing alert them so they can find it and now you're in concert with one another and you're working together as opposed to me doing a separate broadcast from the truck so for NBA game for an NFL game. There is such a collaborative process in covering the event and that part is going to be a little different. I can no longer be the eyes and ears if I'm seems develop because I'm just getting what they're getting. I'm getting one screen now. Maybe there could be some advanced setups where we have multiple looks where you can see. Eyeso- monitors which we might have on a normal television broadcast. The analyst is peaking at a different monitor. That's not on television. Not Our program on her but an eyesore monitor and noticed something and tells the producer director. Hey get a shot this for keep an eye on that for this play because they see it developed we might be a bit more limited because we just don't have the same kinds of options that we would normally have under our usual show the reason that there's been more remote coverage as that covering live sports on location is really expensive. And there's a shit ton of live sports available to be broadcast and you practically networks and other producers can't send crews to cover every game. The goal of the announcer of course is to make us not realize that we're missing anything and my question. Is I guess the two questions here one is. Are we missing something by not having your is your physical is in your physical emotion in the stadium or arena or on the field? And do you worry where we are now that this will be a convenient way for networks and other sports producers to say? Hey we can really cut costs by remote broadcasting more than we have in the past. Yeah I four yes You are missing something. If the announcers and the producers and director are not onsite. You're missing part of the feel that comes with covering an event and not just doing the nuts and bolts. And telling you exactly what you're seeing. There is still something to being there in person and experiencing it and being able to convey it with the last dance. Bob Costas stepped in for that final run for Michael Jordan as the play by play announcer and really did an excellent job. Bob is a tremendous journalist and understands the medium but the interesting part for me is looking back on that final edition. He was there and had the right words and the right tone and it lives all these years later. He chose the exact narratives that we needed. That helped tell that story. There will be a disconnect. If you're not there you're not going to have the same vibe. There's just no way. There's no way to recreate that. There is no way to simulate that. Will it be passable? Yes it will be passable and for most people right now given the circumstances they would take it in a heartbeat and I get it a hundred percent get it. We just want something right now but big picture. Long-term no the product would suffer and look some companies have already done it. They've done it without telling anyone that they have a remote production. They may have the announcers on site but the producer and director are back in a studio somewhere. They're not on site. And there are some cases. Where the announcers are not on site and they don't necessarily tell you that when the broadcast starts soccer as we know very common that's probably to me the most common sport of all of them that there are matches happening all over the world and there are two guys in Studio in Fort Lauderdale Florida calling them. Lots of them but I think people will accept what the new normal is shorter long term. I think there would be an issue if we don't get back to the standard in which we've grown accustomed to. I think I've got one question for you. Since you brought it up about the last dance. I know that you did a show with Phil Jackson and Radio. Weekly radio show with Phil Jackson. So can you just real briefly? Tell us about I. Were you in the same room with Phil Jackson when you were doing these enter. How appropriate is this question at this moment? No I was not really. I was with him. One time when the Lakers came into play the knicks that was the only time he was available to come into the studios at serious and that was the only time we did the show looking at one another and every other show that we did for that season he was somewhere else. Sometimes in a hotel room sometimes at the practice facility Sometimes in a remote location that he did not devote Phil Jackson. I did a show for an entire NBA season and we were together. Once why did you feel like you've ever gotten to a rapport with Phil? Then on not the way that I normally would like to to think of chemistry no I I would look back on that and say there was definitely a disconnect because he was doing the show during a very brief time that he had actual time to commit to it in between other things so it was never a focus for him. Phil was very easy to deal with. He could not have been more of a gentlemen's very interesting guy. His view of what the show should be compared to what my view was and management. Were to different a he at one point on a show wall. There were definitely some things happening with the Lakers. You wanted to do twenty minutes on canned goods one. That's real and I I remember after the show meeting would somebody from serious and and he asked me how. How did you get on that time? Think that was filling as I tempted to get off topic. He went back to that topic. So yeah it. It's something that I always looked at as as a real strength of mine connecting with my partners finding that that dynamic that works that was digestible for the audience. I would say that was one of the few instances where I just couldn't quite get over the Hump on that particular setup Stephan. We should wrap this up. I think you know before we got. We should all just grid how he did. Not In the same location. I can give us a solid C. Four but we faked it. Well Yeah that's a Great Eagle calls the NFL the NBA. Pretty much. Everything else. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Angry to see you guys all right. We'll let you know that in this week's bonus segment for slate plus members. We'll be talking to our slave colleague. Heather sh widow not a sports fan about her interpretations of the last dance. What was it like for a sports? Please stick around for that and join slate. Plus SLATE DOT com slash hangup plus the NFL came up with the Rooney rule in two thousand three under threat of litigation from a pair of civil rights attorneys one of them. Johnny Cochran the rule which requires teams to interview minority candidates for head. Coaching and front office positions was meant to boost minority hiring. It hasn't really worked today. Seventeen years later the. Nfl has three black head coaches the same number. As when the Rooney rule was adopted. The League gets seems once that to change the. Nfl will reportedly consider a pair of resolutions during the owners. Virtual meeting on Tuesday the I would do away with the rule that permits teams to block assistant coaches from interviewing for coordinator positions with other teams. This second would reward teams with improved drafts. Lots if they hire minority head coaches a football executives. So Josh you think. Nfl teams are now going to fall over themselves to hire Marvin Lewis any probably not poor. poor Marvan but Anthony Lynn. One of the three black head coaches I think had it exactly right when he said in an interview. I think sometimes you can do the wrong thing while trying to do the right thing. I don't think that it's a bad idea for the NFL. To look at the Rooney rule and say how can we improve this? How can we get more opportunities for minority coaches and executives? That's a good impulse the way that they're going about it here or that they're proposing to go about it. Here seems wrong in that people that support minority hiring and people who oppose it are going to be united and thinking that this is a bad idea if you are upset or outraged bird or think that there should be more opportunities here. You'RE GONNA look at this and be like all right. You're saying that you're now qualifying like a minority head. Coach is worth six spots in the third round. I mean we can go through the specifics of the proposal. But it's basically like putting a value on a coach that's associated with like moving up a couple of spots in the draft and it just feels wrong and it also sends the message. That teams won't do this unless they're giving a cookie for you know. Oh well you don't want black coach there. We'll give you a third round pick. I'm like Oh okay now I really do want black. I mean it just sends the wrong message and on the other side. You're GONNA have the usual suspects people being like. This is unfair. It's discrimination it's the same conversations that you hear about affirmative action and that's going to be unfair to the coaches the do get these opportunities. They're going to be seen as Being less deserving Because these inducements are now attached to it. So you know Steph and it just seems like a good idea in theory and just really really bad in practice. Let's start with the NFL's history. It's not just. How many black coaches there are. It's their overall hiring policies. And they've been uniformly terrible over the years the institute for Diversity and Ethics in sport that group that's run by Richard Lap Chick most recently gave the NFL. D plus in hiring for coaches and an F. for hiring diversity for general managers it all reflects the horrific insularity of NFL ownership. I mean you said. Give them a cookie. I mean it's exactly like that the NFL has the treat. It's owners like toddlers. These are the same people who think Colin Kaepernick is a social menace. It's astounding how little what little awareness the thirty two owners in the NFL. Have of what constitutes collective fairness what constitutes equity what constitutes progress and they demonstrate their failings over and over and over. It really shows to me how insulated NFL ownership is from the reality on their own workplaces ingestion. You mentioned something about how you know. Those coaches that might get hired under. These circumstances might be seen as less deserving which that's true but I have and I think that if you got hired under those circumstances you might might not have as much of a problem as you think because that's never stop the NFL. Coaching carousel from hiring people. That are seen as less deserving all the time I mean nobody look at Mike Shula. Brian Schottenheimer Wade Phillips. Jim Moore Junior call. Shanahan Jay Gruden the Ryan brothers. Mike Nolan Ryan Kiffin. You know even Tom Dmitrov. All these guys are nepotism. Hires in nobody ever says. Hey those guys unless serving. It's just assumed that when you get in there you get in there and you have to do your job and so I think even if you got hired under these circumstances you gotta take it and do the job that you can with it because those opportunities just come around and it's never stopped. Anybody knows middling son from accepting a job but more broadly like you said. I don't think this is going to change anything. I don't think teams care that much about a third round pick rhino or positioning in a third round. Pick to do something like this. I mean it just doesn't it doesn't seem like enough of an inducement to do the right thing. Should there being inducement? Joel I mean. Is there a better approach here? I mean look as Bomani. Jones wrote on twitter having to bribe ownership to seriously consider hiring minority coaches as a staggering indictment of the. Nfl is what Bomani wrote. Should you have to do this or is this a is there a way to improve minority hiring in a league like the NFL? I don't know because I mean it's so dependent as you mentioned on these owners and these people that really don't necessarily believe in diversity or fairness and hiring as a concept in the first place right like I mean there are people that skirt these sort of rules. All the times and other industry is so. I don't know that there's anything that could necessarily be done. But they should do something right but I always think about it. This way that the problem with the pipeline is not it head. Coaching in the head coaching. Position or general managers you've got to build a pipeline way before you ever get to that point A lot of coaches get stuck and positions that you know position coaching roles that never get that sort of responsibility in it is not really an advancement and I'll use this example so I played at. Tcu Nine thousand nine hundred ninety eight and ninety six we had three black assistant coaches at TCU. This is nineteen ninety-six. All three of them today. A running backs coaches still you know and and only one of them has had an opportunity to be coordinator at some point net careers and it wasn't like one of those coordinator positions where you call plays. It was being a coordinator in name only. So you think about it. So like that guy's never even gonNA get a chance to be to get the sort of advancement that somebody else gets a coordinator position when the thirty one years old guy like Lincoln Riley or or whoever else so yeah I just I get what they're trying to do but the problem is pipeline and I don't know how you deal with that so a couple of things the thing that the real indictment of the NFL as compared to other industries and of in leadership positions and journalism. In which we're familiar with and and you know many other industries that were less personally familiar with as a scandal in itself but the NFL. The vast majority of players are black and so when the coaches and know ownership and management arm black than that is an indictment of the whole industry. I mean it's an obvious point where it's saying like they're obviously people that can do these jobs and should be given an opportunity to do these jobs. So that's point number one The second point is I think this is a really really important lesson in the difference between You know how things are in Noun on paper and then how. Things are executed in practice. The Rooney rule is progressive and the NFL was progressive. Instituting and in two thousand and three and the numbers that you mentioned Jal It's certainly true. That the number of coaches the same now as it was seventeen years ago but that does It's a little bit more of a topsy turvy story than that. It did. Initially I think work and there were more coaches and then just like And again this happens across other industries. These coaches get an opportunity and then maybe they don't you know some of them succeed in down and then like Marvin Lewis. They don't ever get an opportunity again so it's like okay. We hired by coach. That didn't work. We're not going to do that again. And so I think the NFL is right and saying we need to do something different. We need to change something here. But I thought Mike Florio profootballtalk had a really good point. The problem here is moving from the Paradigm of Punishments to the Paradigm of reward. There's only been one fine. Ever issued for Rooney rule violation to Matt Mellon when he was with the Lions. Congratulations mad melon. And being the only person to ever get fined for this the NFL has been unwilling to punish teams for making a sham of the renewal process for going through with interviews with coaches. They don't intend to hire with not taking it seriously. That is where the NFL should put. Its Energy and attention is making sure that these interviews are real. That more coaches are getting the opportunity to interview the part about In the first part you mentioned y'all of getting more minorities opportunities to be coordinators. That is the part here that will get the least attention but as the most important and just bringing the whole concept of reward and giving team something for you know a practice that they should be doing anyway. It sends the wrong message. Punish punish right. The word and I'm glad you mentioned the bit about allowing assistant coaches to be interviewed for coordinator positions because that is far more important. There are a lot of African American and other minority coaches in the NFL. Position Coach's position assistance. Who Don't get to move up and running coaches flat running back. Coach is a lot of defensive coaches who who don't get to move up particularly because they don't get the opportunity to run the offense which is the most likely path to becoming a head coach so allowing coaches assistant coach to be interviewed for these jobs and getting rid of some of these bogus deadlines and sort of periods when they're not allowed to talk to other teams is a real step forward. The insane part about this is that the NFL also is having to write into this rule that every team will have to notify the league. About what an assistant coaches responsibility actually is to prevent teams from giving them titles that would prohibit them from being interviewed for these positions so the League is going to have to build in rules to keep teams from changing the titles of assistant coaches to prevent them from qualifying to be interviewed for coordinator jobs. That is just another tremendous indictment about what this league has to do to prevent owners from doing the wrong thing in a question. I have is who wanted this. Who proposed this and who wanted this does the NFL. Actually this is some sort of you know potential lawsuit in the works that we don't know about have they been contacted by somebody that makes them want to address this now because I guess I'm just curious about what what's pushing this like? This past off season Joe. Judge gets the giants head coaching job and he was a special teams coach. Rate and the guy that got hired in Cleveland Kevin's defence key. These are guys that don't have as much experience and as many accolades as Eric. Bana made a no black offensive coordinator for the chief so the NFL is responding to events. That happened in twenty twenty. And I bet they thought that they were GonNa get praised for it right bright. Well also look this public relations a does affect the NFL. They are not immune to bad. Pr Jim Trotter. Who's African American who covers the NFL for the NFL? Network said the end of last year. That Clemson offensive coordinator named Tony Elliott rejected being interviewed by the panthers. I thought it was going to be a bogus interview. And that of a week. Or so later. He quoted an unnamed black. Nfl assistant coach. Nfl is finally shown. It's not the place for black men to advance. It's ridiculous it's disgusting. We can sell tickets and make plays but we can't lead. Maybe there was pressure and is pressure and there should be pressure is coming from the. Nfl PA is coming from an outsider. Like Cyrus Mary or lawyers. That are once again going to have to threaten the NFL or have we don't know right now but that wouldn't be out of the question is not for me to tell. Tony Elliott whether or not to take interviews that he knows maybe a sham or not because at least for the panthers the it had been telegraph. That Matt Rule. The head coach. Baylor was always going to be the guy in that role right but I do think it's important to take those interviews because you just never know by getting in the room and that's why like the idea that people might be diminished by getting installed. You know through these means might make them seem less deserving kind of falls apart because the thing is that often guys just need to get in the room. And that's the biggest problem in a lot of in these instances just not even getting the opportunity to make your case to the decision makers and like. That's the piece that needs to be solved here and yes. This proposal does kind of get at that but I just I guess I'm just really cynical about the idea that the NFL and the people that are in charge of these franchises are really going to do anything unless you punish them but even then you're punishing them not for not hiring but for not taking the the rule seriously because that's another step right taking the rule seriously and then going through it making a higher and I just you know we've been talking about this. Entire life is a football fan and there hasn't been much movement on it and you know I I doubt they will see much movement on it. The rest of my life well. I think you're right that if these rules went into place and it's unclear it seems extremely unlikely to me that this will be approved given of the criticism that received instantly. Stanley but in a world. In which this did happened. I thank you know coaches who got these opportunities. Shouldn't turn them down. At the point I was trying to make is just that you know you would be associated with a team jumping six spots from where it is slotted to pick in the third round like that that's a part of a transaction on the wire. It's you know ex coach hired Ex team moves up six slots in the third round. And if you look at like I mean it's a long list of bullet points if a minority assistant left to become a coordinator elsewhere. His former club would receive a fifth round compensatory pack and it kind of goes on and on and the thing that made me think of was Tampa Bay sending two first round picks and two second round. Picks to the raiders for Jon Gruden. I think that they weren't disappointed with that. Trade because they they want a super bowl but like that's the that's the value that's connected to Jon Gruden right and then you know minority coach. Td is worth six slots in the third round. It's just makes it. It makes the whole thing. Look Chintzy and ridiculous and unfair From whatever perspective you want to look at it. It's just the whole thing. Looks look like the result of a round of negotiations where someone in the NFL headquarters said well. Maybe it's worth the first round pick and someone else said no way. What are you kidding me? A black coach that's sixth round. Pick and then. They settled on six slots in the third round. It looks cheap. I think we can put a pin there. Clearly we'll be hearing more about this the NFL owners will meet on this on Tuesday. Which will be the day. Some of you all listen to this podcast so Maybe we'll circle back on this. Now is time for after balls and there's a really sad part of Brian Russell's wikipedia page. I just wanted to let you guys. Now it's not enough. I wanted to prepare you because this has added as it reads as follows in two thousand nine Jordan mentioned Russell and his hall of fame induction speech who calling an interaction they had during Jordan's first retirement in eighteen ninety four lobby blabbity Blah Russell says why did you quit? You know I guard you. Jordan says from this day forward favor see Russell and shorts. I'm coming at him in response. Russell challenged Jordan to a game of one on one for charity. Such a matchup has not yet taken place though the Utah Flash of the N. Bdo did stage a halftime game between Russell and a Jordan look alike. Oh God. That's that's like racing a horse for Brian Russell. Utah Flash of the D. League the G. League. I guess it is now staged this. I guess. Congratulations to them. Coming up at the that promotion. Stephan what is your Utah Flash. Well this past week Major League baseball prepared sixty seven pages of medical and safety protocols. Should the sport return for a partial season on proposals? Include social distancing during the national anthem and when men are on base no managerial lineup card. Swapping no throwing the ball around Macquarie. No high fiving no fist bumping no spitting tobacco chewing or sunflower seed expect rating the most spitting edict is getting a lot of attention because no spitting baseball next crotch-grabbing. They're killing baseball. Anyway you'll recall a few weeks ago. I reported that the last huge US pandemic in one thousand nine hundred eighteen and nineteen was not responsible for outlying the spitball. I also didn't turn up any evidence that the pandemic hastened the demise of plain old spitting in baseball players began spitting during baseball's earliest years. In the mid nineteenth century when chewing tobacco was very popular tobacco produced saliva which was good for lubricating the mouth on dry dusty ballfields and also for lubricating newfangled leather gloves. I couldn't find any stories about the contemporaneous spitting habits of the nineteenth century baseball players. But I did stumble across an interesting item in the February one. 1896 edition of the Pittsburgh press quote Van Hall trend will be asked to sign an agreement curtailing his tobacco. Smoking during the playing season Van. Halton was George van Halter and he played seventeen seasons mostly for the New York. Giants still tons of bases batted over three hundred a dozen times and he also had an awesome handlebar moustache a few days after the Pittsburgh report story only Buffalo Morning News reported that the giants club people had sent word to Van Hall trend in San Francisco. That unless he quit smoking or at least limit himself he could not play on the New York team next year. Giants Andrew Friedman. The paper said is convinced vans. Excessive smoking interfered with his good work last year and insists on limiting the abuse. It's interesting that people in eighteen ninety six thought that smoking might be bad for athletes. Two thousand nine slate explainer about baseball chewing tobacco by Brian Palmer noted that the sudden decline of former batting champion King Kelly 1892 was attributed to his longtime habit of smoking while patrolling the outfield but Van. Halter was no Kelly. He didn't do good work in eighteen. Ninety six he did great work. He hit three forty stole thirty. Two bags drove in one hundred three runs and had a career. I P of nine eleven. Not that he would have known that because Oprah's didn't exist in eighteen ninety six. So why would the giants a story about Van Hall and Smoking Problem? Probably because Friedman the owner was a notorious asshole whom bill. Jane's called George Steinbrenner on Quail Woods with a touch of Al Capone. Friedman was a real estate millionaire. Tammany Hall insider who routinely alienated his players and managers star Pitcher Amos. Roussy would sit out that eighteen ninety six season because of disputes with the owner the smoking threat against Van Hall trend was probably a contractual ploy by Friedman against a star player according to an incredible sabre bio written by Bill Lamb. Friedman fought with fellow national league owners and literally fought with reporters covering the giants to punish the League for not taking his side. After a player used an anti Semitic slur against him on the field. He tanked the giants saying I would not give five cents for the best baseball player in the world to strengthen it that nearly crippled the league because other teams relied on big gates from giants Games. His fellow owners wound up caving. Friedman finagled his way back into power until he left the sport to run the construction. Of New York's first subway line the Iot from which he got even richer and for which he was widely praised Friedman later was a director of the company the back the Wright brothers he had a nervous breakdown and died in one thousand nine fifteen at age fifty five as for Van Hall. Trinh baseball associates defended him against smoking. Charge Connie Mack said that I am confident. He never carried it to that extreme where his health was injured. The big outfielder was always very careful of his health. The trainer for the Pittsburgh Pirates van Halter play before joining. The giants said the smoking report was absurd and the van. Hulten was a crank on his health when he was in Pittsburgh. He backed up that claim with details than hall. Trend was usually the first man in the room after the game and was the last one out he would not go out in the air sweat. He was careful about eating and finally we and obviously most important to maintaining one's health after taking his bath and being rubbed down he would always stand around fanning himself with a towel for five minutes before dressing. I couldn't determine whether van Halter and smoke less or more during the eighteen ninety six season but he had a career best three fifty one average with thirty nine steals and a league. Twenty one triples. Nice Josh what's your Utah Flash before I get to my actual Utah Flash. I have to say that I have an update on the Michael Jordan. Brian Ross all look alike one game from two thousand nine. Is the price of looking up after Bonham too quickly so it turns out that the owner of the Utah Team Brandt Anderson tried to convince people that are actually a real game and like the lookalike all over town to try to drum up interest in this and ended up having that offer refunds to seventy five hundred people that bought tickets to this game to thinking. They're going to see a Brian Russell Michael Jordan one on one game. Oh man offered one hundred thousand dollars to the charity of the Winter Choice Jordan somehow declined shockingly to play Brian Russell at a D. League game in two thousand nine so just a little bit more information now onto my actual Utah Flash. A couple of weeks ago. My friend ten mcclelland asked an important question on twitter. Is the last dance going to ask Michael Jordan why he wouldn't license his image to NBA Jam? The answer tad is now. The last dance did not address that like it didn't address so many other things so I will address it now. Jordan was not in the arcade and home console smash hit NBA Jam because he opted out of regular NBA licensing and made his own arrangements presuming correctly that he could cut better deals for himself than the League could make on his behalf but by opting out of NBA Jam. He missed out on the Europe label. Opportunity to be part of the amusement and music operators associations most played video game for nineteen ninety-three. Actually it's not true. I mean the part about it being most played games trail. But because Michael Jordan is Michael Jordan did get his boom shock cake and eat it to an oral history published in sports illustrated video game developer mark. Turmoil says the following. And I quote Gary. Payton got a hold of me and wanted to be in the game. I told him what we would need. Not Thinking anything would come of it. I should say that Gary Payton is not in the game and that if you plan a jam it's Shawn Kemp and been wait. Benjamin Gary Payton feeling well but left out so he calls. The developer of the game. the developer says. I told him what we would need. Not Thinking anything would come of it. A lot of effort like nine images for the head then. I received photographs in the mail. Payton standing in front of a wall and all these angles then he said Oh. I'M BUDDIES WITH KEN. Griffey junior and he wants to be in the game and Michael Jordan wants to be on the game. I did a special version of the game with three of them in it. I sent that to Peyton. I was happy to do. It was pretty early in his career. It wasn't even clear it was the right move. Okay Gary Payton Gone Michael Jordan. Nba Jam and Michael Jordan was still an asshole to him and last answer. Shake him my damn head This MJ version of NBA. Jam has never been released. Gary Payden apparently has it in his garage. If you want to play this just ask Gary Payden. It's not it's not on me according to the NBA Jammed Super Nintendo Faq on the website game tax published on April seven. Thousand nine hundred four any codes that you might receive to quote unlocked Jordan and the Console version of the game are quote bogus and are merely an attempt by one person to make themselves look cool. Don't fall for it. Game fact says in Nature Ninety four DAFFYD Q. Continues other rumored secret characters that can be confirmed as false are as follows? I'm not making this up. These are all all false false rumored secret characters the list as Barney the dinosaur beavis and butthead Charles Manson Jeffrey Dahmer Randall. Cunningham Jim Harbaugh Magic Johnson Larry Bird it. Dr J. The Red Ninja Donahue. That is rush. Limbaugh DARTH vader Superman Al Pacino. Santa Claus the stay puffed marshmallow cool spot Sinbad Humpty Hump Oprah Alien Predator dray snoop and Michael Jackson no mention of Big Into Pack Humpty Humpty Hump of digital underground yes so if you wanted to play Humpty Hump in a video game you might be out of luck. Unless they're games out there that I don't know about but there have been various Jordan titles released over the years one of them Michael Jordan Chaos. In the windy city is a side scrolling platformer released in one thousand nine hundred four in which Jordan throws basketball's to incapacitate has enemies. You can watch a play through of the entire game on Youtube because of course you can but everything you need to know really is in the country in the beginning that explain the premise of the game. So I'm just GonNa read that part and then we'll be done. It begins with the following tidal. It's a windy day in Chicago. I practice for an all star Charity Game. So you know this is funny. Michael Jordan would never play a charity. Michael shows up and finds his team has disappeared. Their stuff is here. But they're not he says this is weird suddenly through a skylight crash a ball with a note scrawled on it. Note Mr Jordan if you want to save your pals come to the Egyptian Room in the field museum at midnight come alone signed. Dr Max cranium. Michael says man. This is serious. I'd better check out the panel. Then reads that night a guard. Lets Michael into the closed museum in the Egyptian Room Michael? Well I'm here now. What hey a door in the wall? He enters warily. Michael What the the panel finding himself at the entrance to an underground prison Michael sets out to find his friends and then we again not anywhere in space jam. I guess sounds better the spice town. Although you know just the notion that Michael has friends that if the friends appeared that he would want to find them. That seems a little bit less believable than the fact that you can throw basketballs at your enemies to incapacitate them Michael Jordan in the windy city by today. That is our show our producer. Melissa Kaplan Pashas and subscribe or just which out dot com slash hangup email us at hangup sleep dot com. You are still here. You might want even more hang up and listen in our bonus segment this week. We're joined by our colleague. Heather twiddle sports newbie talked about her experience watching plus dance with the bullying and trash talk in general I mean. I realized that he was painting. A Rosier picture of it then was probably really true. Because yeah if I were a rookie and had Michael Jordan Lake terrifying me all the time. I would hate that. I wouldn't think the payments in the same way as at all conversation. Join slate plus. It's just thirty five dollars for the first year you can sign up at slate. Dot Com slash. Hang up plus for Joel Anderson and Stephan. Pats says I'm Josh. Levin Remembers almost movie and thanks for listening.

Michael Jordan NFL NBA director Michael Jordan Joel Utah basketball Phil Jackson Scotty Scottie Pippen Scottie Luc Longley Denis Rodman Ron Harper Steve Pippen Steve Kerr Scottie Pippen Chicago Bulls Brian Russell football Washington Bulls